From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 00:54:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA31509; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:52:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:52:57 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970601035150_843818877 emout13.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: little eden.com Subject: Re : Last AND Least? Resent-Message-ID: <"x07eU.0.Fi7.OfIap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7669 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 01/06/1997 06:57:42 , little eden.com (Scott Little) wrote : << If I go ahead and limit the lift to the 2/3's value mentioned above, the ball will fall off the end of the ramp, on to table, and roll away. However, if I position a 2nd ramp after the first so the ball can't fall all the way to the table but rather lands on the 2nd ramp, the ball invariably just stops there at the foot of the second ramp held securely in position by the nearby ends of the first ramp's magnets. >> Hi Scott, I think that you main problem is due to the V shape formed by the magnetic ramp. If the V shape is too closed the magnetic field interactions between the first and the second ramp change the resulting magnetic field in the 3D neutral zone at the exit point. I suggest you to look at my SMOT v1.02 link design at : http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/smotidx.htm The V shape of each magnetic ramp must be wide... I hope that these informations will help you, SMOTy yours, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 03:04:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA05401; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:03:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:03:05 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970601035150_843818877 emout13.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 00:01:52 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re : Last AND Least? Resent-Message-ID: <"byzHw2.0.JK1.OZKap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7670 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jean-Louis - When you say "The V shape of each magnetic ramp must be wide...", do you mean the gap between magnet assemblies must be wide but closer towards parallel in alignment with each other, or that the V must be wide at the entrance with a greater angle between the assemblies? The images on your site make it look like the rails are as near to parallel as they can be yet still propel the ball. Is that right? | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Not like this, but more like this? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 03:07:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA07047; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:06:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:06:10 -0700 Date: 01 Jun 97 06:04:09 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Last AND Least? Message-ID: <970601100408_100433.1541_BHG38-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"r49WG2.0.1k1.HcKap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7671 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott, > Greg, do you have to believe this thing will work before it > does?.... Well, your dimensions are outside the limits set in Greg's list. He says that the ball diameter must be 10% - 25% greater than the magnet height. I gather that if the magnets are too tall then you can't link the ramps, while if they are too short you can't get the lift. Complaining about one's rig not working *before* Greg posted that helpful little list is on thing - complaining afterwards seems a trifle odd, Scott? By the way, my post last night may have seemed too 'positive' towards the SMOT; but that's how it came out when I worked through it. Even so, I can't handle the idea that anyone could close the loop. Even the NZ partial replication makes me feel peculiar. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 03:51:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA09762; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:50:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 03:50:57 -0700 Date: 01 Jun 97 06:49:21 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: vortex Subject: Mini comets Message-ID: <970601104921_100433.1541_BHG42-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"iHQgL1.0.OO2.GGLap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7672 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To:Vortex [I like the bit about Nature's "representative poll"] "Ice cubes from space prove the scoffers wrong" [Robert Matthews, Sunday Telegraph June 1st 1997, P16] MANY scientists are having to eat humble pie this weekend, following the revelation that the Earth is constantly pelted by cosmic snowballs the size of houses. And not before time either, as these same scientists have spent a decade disparaging Dr Louis Frank of Iowa University for his refusal to bow to orthodoxy and deny the evidence of his own eyes. That evidence first emerged in 1982, when a student of Dr Frank's was analysing images of the Earth sent back by two Nasa satellites. To the student's frustration, many of the images were spoiled by tiny black dots. At first sight, they appeared to be faulty data, but careful study revealed that they behaved far too regularly to be dismissed as random flaws. Instead, they appeared to be tiny comet-like objects that were striking the atmosphere at the rate of one every three seconds, each dumping tons of water on to the Earth, For a few years, other researchers showed no more than polite interest in Frank's claims when they were mentioned at conferences. It was when he tried to get his research published in academic journals that Frank discovered the fate that awaits those who make radical claims in science. The leading journal Nature rejected his claims, saying that "a representative poll" had been taken of experts in the field and they had voted against publication. Frank's attempts to answer his critics with fresh evidence by using major telescopes were met with obstruction and footdragging, with astronomers insisting that the enterprise was a waste of time. When Frank did succeed in getting access to a telescope, it revealed objects streaking across the atmosphere at 20,000 mph -- as he had predieted. It made no difference: the findings were still rejected for publication. Now, after 10 years of obstruction and ridicule, it is Frank's turn to laugh. Cameras he designed aboard Nasa's Polar spacecraft have revealed the existence of the small comets beyond all doubt. Spectacular images taken by the cameras show the comets streaking into the atmosphere before dumping their water. They arrive at the rate of about one every three seconds -- just as Frank had claimed. Frank himself has always been surprisingly sanguine about the controversy, apparently taking the view that "truth will out". But there is no getting around the fact that many scientists have taken a woefully unscientific approach to the whole issue. While extraordinary claims must demand extraordinary evidence, the reluctance of many to consider Frank's evidence was matched only by their keenness to block his attempts to gather more. Frank's experiences in this quintessentially Strange but True story are far from unique. The whole issue of bombardment by cosmic debris is one that has always been dogged by mule-like intransigence dressed up as academic rigour. Until the early 19th century, anyone claiming to have seen stones falling out of the sky was regarded as having had a few beers too many; the French Academy of Sciences even declared such claims to be a scientific absurdity. When hundreds of stones were reported to have smashed on to the French village of L'Aigle in 1803, the Academy dispatched a young astronomer to debunk the story. He returned with bad news: the reports were correct. Everyone now accepts the existence of meteorites but the confirmation came too late to save hundreds of specimens from being unceremoniously thrown out of museums as "superstitious artefacts" The now widely-accepted theory that a huge meteor struck the Earth 65 million years ago, pushing the dinosaurs into extinction, also came in for at least as much abuse as the idea of microcomets when it was originally proposed. When the late Nobel Prizewinning physicist Luis Alvarez and his team first published their evidence for the giant impact in 1980, one authority described it as "a nutty theory of pseudoscientists posing as paleontologists". Today it is the nutters who argue against it. There is one aspect of the Earth bombardment issue that remains a source of incredulity among many scientists: the idea that humanity is under serious threat from meteor impacts. The sceptics are still demanding hard evidence for this threat. We can only hope that the "hard evidence" doesn't come in the form of a billion-tonne meteor any time soon. [end] From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 04:20:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA08499 for billb@eskimo.com; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 04:20:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 04:20:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: revtec ptd.net Sun Jun 1 04:20:36 1997 Received: from mail.ptd.net (srv1.ptd.net [204.186.0.131]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA08468 for ; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 04:20:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 9429 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1997 11:19:53 -0000 Received: from du62.con.ptd.net (HELO revtec.ptd.net) (204.186.47.62) by srv1.ptd.net with SMTP; 1 Jun 1997 11:19:53 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970601072359.00762380 postoffice.ptd.net> X-Sender: revtec postoffice.ptd.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Old-Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 07:23:59 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: jeff fink Subject: Watson vs Takahashi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: vortex-l Status: RO X-Status: If those interested in SMOT would look at page 51 in IE vol 1 no. 5,6 you will see that Takahashi's motor runs on the same principle (whatever that is). Whereas Watson uses gravity to slip the ball out the side of the field, Takahashi uses a momentary electromagnetic pulse to bridge the field. Any comments? Jeff Fink From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 04:44:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA09489; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 04:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 04:43:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Tstolper aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 07:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970601074152_-994699935 emout07.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Re Simon paper about sociology Resent-Message-ID: <"N7Bxs.0.4K2.G1Map" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7673 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bart, In your post of May 30 you said, "if one researcher wishes to remain anonymous then its better that they all remain so...," and that this is standard practice in sociology. Why should one researcher's preference for anonymity impose anonymity on all? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 04:44:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA09506; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 04:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 04:43:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Tstolper aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 07:41:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970601074157_253368545 emout08.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Re EarthTech's Ragland cell Resent-Message-ID: <"w4XeT1.0.RK2.K1Map" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7674 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott, You said that you couldn't see how running the cell closed "could possibly affect the reaction we are investigating." Over the last few years, I've heard repeatedly that running a cell closed can make a big difference. Don't ask me why. Your confidence that running the cell closed couldn't possibly affect the reaction being investigated implies a strong opinion about the nature of the reaction. What is your view of what the reaction is? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 05:28:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA12137; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 05:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 05:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <339164B4.E7E microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 21:31:56 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Last AND Least? References: <199706010555.AAA14035 natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xtV492.0.Wz2.GeMap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7676 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > Gnorts Vorts, > > I have been playing with our 2 ramps for several hours now...most > frustrating! I can now get a single ramp adjusted so the ball will exit the > upper end and fall on the table...but only with a lift about 2/3's of that > needed to allow the first channel to lap over the 2nd ramp's channel. When > I increase the lift to the desired amount, I have to move the magnets in a > little to make the ball run up the ramp again. That puts me in the regime > where the ball _always_ snaps over to one or the other of the magnets arrays > when it gets to the top of the ramp. > > Vital statistics: > > 1. magnet dims: 7.5mm hi, 13mm long, 4mm thick 9.7mm hi, 13mm long, 4mm thick > 2. array size: 8 magnets long by 4 magnets thick Ditto > 3. ball size: 12mm and 11.2mm....12mm seems to work best 12mm as well > 4. channel: 13mm square, 7.7mm opening 12mm square, 9.0mm opening > 5. alignment: ball center level with magnet center ball 1.5mm below magnet centre. 6. Ramp: ? 90mm long, with polished rails. (Very little noise) 7. Back: ? 3x10x104mm Steel How long is the ramp? It should be 13-15mm less than the mag array length. This is somewhat critical. Are you using a steel backing strip? > If I go ahead and limit the lift to the 2/3's value mentioned above, the > ball will fall off the end of the ramp, on to table, and roll away. > However, if I position a 2nd ramp after the first so the ball can't fall all > the way to the table but rather lands on the 2nd ramp, the ball invariably > just stops there at the foot of the second ramp held securely in position by > the nearby ends of the first ramp's magnets. You need to vary the inter ramp linking distance. This is what the notch under the exit is for. The notch allows the adjusting the link position without altering the lift height. I normally use around 12-15mm link distance. > Greg, do you have to believe this thing will work before it does?.... Remember my second ramp. Never could get it to work. No, but it helps. Imagine the time it took me to get my first ramp working. 10 minutes to build and 5 minutes to the first climb and drop. I was very lucky, I got it so right the first time. Maybe I was supposed to? I don't know, but it causes me to ponder some time! Once you get the ramp working, its very solid. After a while, the adjustments become natural and you don't really have to think about them. > Scott Little Hi Scott, Good fun? Actually I feel for you, I know how much you really want it to work. Best Regards, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 05:28:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA12013; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 05:23:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 05:23:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: 01 Jun 97 08:20:41 EDT From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Seventh Miley Critique Message-ID: <970601122041_76570.2270_FHU35-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"ZtYh73.0.dx2.hcMap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7675 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Mr. Murray, Let me make one thing perfectly clear to you: While I have no objections to your evaluating Miley et al's papers published in Infinite Energy and even subimitting a reasonable critique of this work for Infinite Energy, to which Miley et al would respond, you have clearly indicated through your language a great hostility to claims in the field and to Infinite Energy magazine, in particular. (Much as Douglas Morrison, Steve Jones, et al have.) If that language is not removed I am not going to publish anything of yours. Frankly, I do not think you have the ability to critique dispationately. You are in "attack mode". E.G. "Aren't the tantalizing phenomena so complex, and so unknown, as to make all theorizing largely misleading and irrelevant?" This is a most absurd and idiotic statment. If you really believe this, you are in big trouble. Thankfully, scientists working seriously in the cold fusion field do not believe that. They are convinced that real phenomena exist in the field and are proceding accordingly. You, by contrast, are simply trying to shoot it all down. Your efforts are doomed to failure. However, I still am open to your submitting a report without your insinuations, the likes of: "What must we conclude about the credibility of "Infinite Energy" magazine, when radical reports are published without reasonable scrutiny either prior or post publication?" Unlike Nature and Science, we will continue to present "radical reports" of new phenomena. We do not assert by publishing these reports that every aspect of them is valid. That is for readers and *helpful* -- NOT antagonistic -- purveyors of crtiques to determine. By the way, I do not intend to get into either a public or private exchange with you beyond this message. I am far too busy with more important work -- such as rapidly disseminating the results of experiments. Sincerely, Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief Infinite Energy Magazine Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. PO Box 2816 Concord, NH 03302 Phone: 603-228-4516 Fax: 603-224-5975 76570.2270 compuserve.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 05:59:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA14844; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 05:58:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 05:58:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <339157D2.6128F85B verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 15:06:58 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: SMOT report form X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o3_sv1.0.sd3.m7Nap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7677 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, I propose to make a report form for showing current status of SMOT builders ,including specifications and a guide for successful OU verification. May such fields be included: --------------------------- Name/email Location build start date last update date status (phase #, maybe more details) Specs (magnets,ramp,ball sizes, other arrangement data) Free description area Last problem encountered Recommendation Comments Criteria and method for verifying OU General considerations for verifying OU Closed loop [ ] Static energy gain [ ] Kinetic Energy gain [ ] ------------------------------ This form will reside on a WEB site (i.e. JNAUDIN's site) and builders will fill the form then the report and statistics will be manually or automatically updated on a HTML page. This report will give substantial information about the overall SMOT project. And help to clarify the things. I am waiting feedback. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 06:41:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA19521; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:40:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:40:45 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Electrolytic Free Radical Generator-Sterilizer. Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:38:23 +0000 Message-ID: <19970601133821.AAA14307 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"7At-R3.0.qm4.SlNap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7678 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Vortex: The science coming out of the CF electrolysis cells, P&F, CETI, and Storms, raises the possibility that the free radicals, O, OH, H, OOH, etc., generated in the cells, resembles the use of Vapor Hydrogen Peroxide (VHP) sterilizers used in the medical sector. The VHP sterilizers thermally decompose an approximate 30% water solution of hydrogen peroxide to liberate the hydroxyl (OH) free radicals under low pressure (0.1 to 10 Torr) so that they have a long enough lifetime to reach and destroy pathogens (bacteria and virus')on medical devices placed in the sterilizers. In the CF cells the free radicals react at the electrodes giving oxygen at the anode; 4 OH- minus 4e = 2 H2O + O2. At the cathode; 4 K+ plus 4e = 4 K. Then 4 K + 4 H2O = 4 KOH + 2 H2. If one uses a metal tube a centimeter, or so, in diameter with holes in it filled with an aqueous sodium or potassium electrolyte wrapped with a few layers of fiberglass cloth or such, then wrapped with a nickel or stainless wirecloth or "gauze", with a suitable voltage and current applied between the tube and the gauze there could be enough free radicals generated to can "boil off" of the gauze before they react, and kill pathogens. Concievably, with long lengths of such an apparatus and suitable electrical control, large sterilizers could be built.The only makeup chemical-sterilant required would be water. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 06:57:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA21008; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:55:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:55:14 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: ben clubelite.com (Ben Tammetta) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 21:50:46 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SMOT report form Reply-to: tammetta mindspring.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <339157D2.6128F85B verisoft.com.tr> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Message-ID: <19970601140234604.AAA317 jumanji> Resent-Message-ID: <"8lHYW3.0.A85.1zNap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7679 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, This has been on my list of todo's for a while.... Actually I've written a similar program that I just sat down to customize for the FE, OU devices. I hope to get a first version up in a few hours from now..... I post back when its done... later on today I'll close the loop :) > I propose to make a report form for showing current status of SMOT > builders ,including specifications and a guide for successful OU > verification. May such fields be included: > --------------------------- > Name/email > Location > build start date > last update date > status (phase #, maybe more details) > Specs (magnets,ramp,ball sizes, other arrangement data) > Free description area > Last problem encountered > Recommendation > Comments This helps, Thanks > Criteria and method for verifying OU > General considerations for verifying OU > Closed loop [ ] > Static energy gain [ ] > Kinetic Energy gain [ ] > ------------------------------ > will fill the form then the report and statistics will be manually or > automatically updated on a HTML page. Yes that's how it will work ... and you can go back and edit some information. > This report will give substantial information about the overall SMOT > project. And help to clarify the things. Yep! > I am waiting feedback. You just read it! I'm one step ahead :) I'll post when it's up, later, Ben Tammetta ben clubelite.com ###################### # Ben Tammetta # # ben clubelite.com # ###################### From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 07:01:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA21499; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 07:00:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 07:00:35 -0700 Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 09:00:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706011400.JAA01114 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com, From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Last AND Least? Resent-Message-ID: <"I4R_I1.0.rF5.22Oap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7680 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 06:04 AM 6/1/97 EDT, Chris Tinsley wrote: >Well, your dimensions are outside the limits set in Greg's list. He >says that the ball diameter must be 10% - 25% greater than the magnet >height. I see that...yet it's odd that the larger ball seems to work better (i.e. zooms up the ramp faster and rolls clear easier) than the smaller balls which are closer to Greg's spec...? >Complaining about.... I'm not _complaining_....just reporting, as requested. Others have gotten varying degrees of success with sizes and shapes that depart considerably from Greg's original specs, haven't they? Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 07:10:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA20023; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 07:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 07:08:08 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:06:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970601100648_-229177737 emout13.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: monteverde worldnet.att.net Subject: Re : Last AND Least? Resent-Message-ID: <"_wcWX.0.mu4.69Oap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7681 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 01/06/1997 11:04:33 , you wrote : << Jean-Louis - When you say "The V shape of each magnetic ramp must be wide...", do you mean the gap between magnet assemblies must be wide but closer towards parallel in alignment with each other, or that the V must be wide at the entrance with a greater angle between the assemblies? The images on your site make it look like the rails are as near to parallel as they can be yet still propel the ball. Is that right? | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Not like this, but more like this? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI >> Hi Rick, I agree with you, drawing are better than a long discour, and building is better than long chatting.... The V angle of magnetic ramp is better like this : | | | | | | | | Than : | | | | | | | | Because, interaction between two ramps with a wide angle, reduce the change of the neutral break point, and the fall of the steel ball is easy. | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 08:34:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA26215; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 08:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 08:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: 01 Jun 97 11:28:34 EDT From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Mallove CF article in Analog Message-ID: <970601152833_76570.2270_FHU46-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"4XiHK3.0.TP6.TMPap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7682 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Vortexians: The July/August 1997 issue of Analog (Science Fiction and Fact) Magazine has my article on cold fusion and new energy: "Cold Fusion" The 'Miracle' Is No Mistake" pages 53 - 73. The copyrighted article is about 6,000 words and includes 91 references, including the 1989 DOE ERAB report against cold fusion and the negative books by Huizenga, Taubes, and Close. However, the uninitiated (and pathological skeptics) will find references to copious technical papers and to published analyses of the so-called "null" experiments at MIT, Caltech, and Harwell in 1989. These experiments were not null results, as the published record shows, but today the MIT/Caltech/Harwell papers are irrelevant anyway -- except for historical and ethical discussions. The July/August Analog is beginning to appear in stores already. I saw it at the Manchester, NH Barnes and Noble book store. Sincerely, Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief Infinite Energy Magazine Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. PO Box 2816 Concord, NH 03302 Phone: 603-228-4516 Fax: 603-224-5975 76570.2270 compuserve.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 08:34:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA26366; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 08:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 08:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33919568.6983 interlaced.net> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 11:29:44 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Last AND Least? References: <199706011400.JAA01114 natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3F7kw1.0.tR6.DNPap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7683 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > (snip) > > I'm not _complaining_....just reporting, as requested. Others have gotten > varying degrees of success with sizes and shapes that depart considerably > from Greg's original specs, haven't they? > You bet, Scott! I also departed from the "sacred specs" for my SMOT. This IS vortex, you know! My single SMOT rig uses 6 Radio Shack ceramic magnets in each array - 2 stacked by 3 long. The overall array dimensions are: 145 mm long 22 mm high 18 mm thick with a 3 mm backing strip. The ball is 38.1 mm dia. (1.5 inch) and the relatively small track is 12 mm wide, 8 mm high, with about 1 mm rails (aluminum chan.). I was able to get a ramp climb and drop off to table following Greg's ideas fairly closely. I could not get roll-away at the *initial* level. In a gross variation from specs, I clamped all components to a flat board. I ran a LEVEL, straight track screwed to the board center. With the magnet arrays also flat on the board (in the Watson V shape), I wound up with a neat magneto-mechanical oscillator but nothing unusual. The track runs about 70 mm (level all the way) past the array exit and ends in a square cut. When I released the ball at the array entrance, I noticed that It punched beyond the "magnetic wall" near the exit and extended about 70% of its diameter past the array exit plane before stopping for the reverse trip. I then placed a large pair of alnico magnetron magnet poles beyond the exit to SUMULATE A SECOND ARRAY - which I don't have. (I'm in the middle of a kitchen tear-out and remodel so I won't have time for much more hardware gathering.) What I'm trying to get at is that I *think* I was getting a potential second-array-entrance condition with a level track run with no height variation. On the flat board my large ball has its center about 5 mm above the top of the magnet arrays - the friction is still fairly low because of the large ball rolling on the small track. I'm not trying to upset Greg's sequence here, but if some of you advanced SMOTers are interested, you might try to get multi-array feed through with a level, continuous track. Maybe Greg has already researched this mode and rejected it? Whatever, I'm not going to have the time to go much farther with my rogue SMOT. For now, beginners should probably stick to Greg's specs if they want success! Maybe the vertical drop is necessary to get gravitational "tunneling" through the magnetic exit potential barrier? With kitchen cabinets falling all around --- Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 08:47:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA31863; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 08:45:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 08:45:42 -0700 Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:45:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706011545.KAA05723 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Re EarthTech's Ragland cell Resent-Message-ID: <"E3dWt1.0.in7.baPap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7685 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 07:41 AM 6/1/97 -0400, Tstolper aol.com wrote: >Your confidence that running the cell closed couldn't possibly affect the >reaction being investigated implies a strong opinion about the nature of the >reaction. What is your view of what the reaction is? Actually, I don't have a strong opinion...I am concentrating on trying to observe the excess heat effect first. Whatever the reaction is, I am assuming that it is going on inside the cathode. The recombiner is located in the head space above the electrolyte. It catalyzes the H+H+0 reaction producing H2O (or D2O in this case) vapor which then condenses on the relatively cool cell walls and drips back down into the electrolyte. In other words, the net result of the recombiner is to drip D2O into the cell as fast as it is consumed. In an open cell, one injects slugs of D2O into the cell periodically as it is consumed. Maybe I'm oversimplifying but I can't see how the method of replenishing D2O would affect what is going on "down in the soup". BTW, our first triode run is still at Eout/Ein of about 0.99. The 8-day period of hope is about over for this run and I'm probably going to try a few changes (higher currents, bigger ratios) before I tear it down for the next run. I plan to perform at least 20 trials with this rig before even considering giving up (per Storms' typical hit rate). I am also going to contact Storms and try to get some "special" Pd from him. etc. etc. etc. Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 08:47:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA31925; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 08:45:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 08:45:47 -0700 Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:45:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706011545.KAA05730 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Last AND Least? Cc: freenrg-l eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"JTsX53.0.io7.gaPap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7686 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:31 PM 6/1/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: >> 1. magnet dims: 7.5mm hi, 13mm long, 4mm thick > 9.7mm hi, 13mm long, 4mm thick OUr magnets vary a bit from 7.5mm to nearly 8mm high. Greg, do you think this might be a disabling change? >> 5. alignment: ball center level with magnet center > ball 1.5mm below magnet centre. I have experimented with shimming up the magnets briefly...didn't see any significant change except that it seemed more likely to snap the ball over to one of the magnets at the end of the ramp. > 6. Ramp: ? > 90mm long, with polished rails. (Very little noise) The slanted part of our ramp is 90mm and the rails are nicely polished. We also have a 20mm long level part at the foot of the ramp with a smooth bend made as you suggested with a hacksaw cut. > 7. Back: ? > 3x10x104mm Steel Ours are 3.5x8x106mm right now...they are 2mm longer than the magnets. > >> Greg, do you have to believe this thing will work before it does?.... >Once you get the ramp working, its very solid. One disadvantage we in the States have is a lack of Blu-Tak! My meager supply was donated by Chris Tinsley some time ago. There is a shoddy facsimile here called Handi-Tak that is yellow in color and very soft. It is to Blu-Tak as mud is to concrete. Anyone in the Blu-Tak countries care to trade for a couple of packs?...I can send Duct tape, Velcro, etc. Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 08:48:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA28227; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 08:46:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 08:46:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:45:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706011545.KAA05736 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Triode in Bow, NH? Resent-Message-ID: <"hoxLS2.0.yu6.JbPap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7687 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Gene, I saw in IE #12 that you also received a Ragland triode cell. Have you begun testing it yet? Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 09:21:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA02678; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 09:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 09:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: 01 Jun 97 12:16:23 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: vortex-l Subject: Are Metal Hydrides Safe? Message-ID: <970601161623_76016.2701_JHC44-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"qekMP2.0.ff.a4Qap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7688 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gnorts Vorts, Today's paper reports that Georgia Tech has built a near zero-polluting transit vehicle which uses electric drive and a hydrogen-powered motor to charge batteries. The hydrogen is stored in a metal hydride form in a pressurized tank. This is done for safety purposes since a ruptured tank of pure hydrogen spews it's gas rapidly while the release of the hydrogen from a hydride is more controlled. Given that Dr. Patterson's experiments are valid, should we be concerned about the unknown reactions which might occur in metal hydrides? I'd hate to recommend that the local transit authority test several of these new buses only to learn that we have subjected this Olympic City to a greater threat than Red Mercury. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 09:23:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA05699; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 09:21:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 09:21:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970601121754.006d01e0 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (32) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 12:18:16 +0000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Re Simon paper about sociology Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"IIG233.0.zO1.O6Qap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7689 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:41 AM 6/1/97 -0400, Tom Stolper wrote: Bart, > >In your post of May 30 you said, "if one researcher wishes to remain >anonymous then its better that they all remain so...," and that this is >standard practice in sociology. > >Why should one researcher's preference for anonymity impose anonymity on all? > >Tom Stolper > > Tom: More great questions. Here is one probable answer. Simple answer: it doesnt. But here may be from where it may have arose. Jed wrote: > The paper includes many unattributed comments with footnotes like #61, > "interview with an electrochemist at a university." If you cannot give the > name, the date, and the university, you shouldn't quote it. Not in a formal > paper. So I looked upon footnote #61. "One chemist I interviewed told me, Before your call, I dont think anybody has actually even mentioned cold fusion to me in some three or four years. Its a non-issue here." {Undead Science: Making Sense of Cold Fusion After the (Arti)fact, Bart Simon] So the answer is, skeptics who hurt cold fusion will not use their name, but as we have all seen on s.p.f., skeptics derive their power from their repetition, their number, and their anonymity DESPITE that they are simply wrong. These are some of the hallmarks of pathological skepticism. Bart's paper itself supports this concept of pathologic skepticism several ways. First, by cutting off the real references about cold fusion, second by hiding the critics names against the field so that no researcher can ever confront their accusers hidden behind the veiled apron of "sociology". This hypothesis may be confirmed with Bart's last sentence which attempts to isolate the cold fusion pioneers who might have survived Bart's anonymously-written erroneous barbs. Bart's last sentence -- after partially filtering the truth written above it by ignoring so much of the literature (the role of reviewers, etc, Tables of what was left was cited already in previous posts) -- is to state: "Thus, to ignore the operations of the undead is to neglect the fact that they will be back to haunt us." {Undead Science: Making Sense of Cold Fusion After the (Arti)fact, Bart Simon] The facts remains that cold fusion is not dead, is not undead, but is science. Scientist should interact and "cross-fertilize" their technologies. With real cold fusion, there is engineering and there is research. Nonetheless Bart -- even though he knowledge of postitive results in the US Navy -- would unfortunately separate the scientists in field of cold fusion from himself in the paper by refering to "the(m)" and "us", as in the sentence above. BTW perhaps also consistent with the inaccuracy aspect and the attempt to "dismiss" cf, Barts papers has error on who funds cf research, but does suggest "cold fusion experiments have recently become eligible for DOE funding". Also, there is a paucity of cf info in Barts paper compared to discussions of other silly subjects that have nothing either to do with cold fusion or the reaction(s) against it, as discussed previously. It therefore remains an opportunity for someone, or several individuals, to do a superb doctoral or masters thesis(es)S in this field by NOT cutting out the positive literature, and by NOT giving the skeptics the ability to continue their nebulous unsupported pathologically skeptic comments in an anonymous fashion. Tom, you have correctly inferred a good point. Best wishes. Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 09:28:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA06393; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 09:26:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 09:26:51 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970601122319.006dc550 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (32) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 12:23:22 +0000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Mallove CF article in Analog Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"lzAsv.0.pZ1.ABQap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7690 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:28 AM 6/1/97 EDT, Gene wrote: >Dear Vortexians: >The July/August 1997 issue of Analog (Science Fiction and Fact) Magazine has my >article on cold fusion and new energy: >"Cold Fusion" The 'Miracle' Is No Mistake" pages 53 - 73. The copyrighted >article is about 6,000 words and includes 91 references, including the 1989 DOE >ERAB report against cold fusion and the negative books by Huizenga, Taubes, and >Close. However, the uninitiated (and pathological skeptics) will find >references to copious technical papers and to published analyses of the >so-called "null" experiments at MIT, Caltech, and Harwell in 1989. These >experiments were not null results, as the published record shows, but today the >MIT/Caltech/Harwell papers are irrelevant anyway -- except for historical and >ethical discussions. > Good article, inadvertantly got it yesterday. Here are two additions and one correction. First, the article appears to ignore the first US issued patent in cold fusion which was reported in the COLD FUSION TIMES http:world.std.com/~mica/cft.html which is the oldest, surviving, solely-devoted-to cold fusion scientific journal in this field. The issue methinks was volume 3, number 2 (Summer '95). Second, the article has good balance in that it introduces other purported overunity systems and other uses of cold fusion devices, but it oversimplifies the difficulties in achieving these reactions, ignores the second order corrections of cold fusion systems outputs, instead substituting non-semiquantitatively corrected vertical calorimetric results. Third, there might be an error on page 61 (second, column). "The tritium evidence was the clincher for my firm acceptance of cold fusion in 1991. Since 1989, dozens of cold fusion experimenters have seen it. This tritium is cold; that is, it does not emerge with corresponding high-energy neutrons that would be expected if it were created in the standard hot fusion reaction." ["Cold Fusion" The 'Miracle' Is No Mistake", E Mallove] Actually, methinks if tritium is formed from d-d fusion, protons would be emitted. Gene? These are some of the relevant d-d reactions. d-d -> t + p d-d -> He3 + n d-d -> He4* -> He4 + photon (forbidden, not seen except at hot fusion temperatures) d-d -> He4* -> He4 + disseminated phonon pool (cold fusion) Most important and relevant here, the He3/n producing reaction (above) is located far above the lowest excited states of He4 and is also not seen at room (i.e. cold fusion) temperatures. Tritium, however, is located below [cf. "Phusons in Nuclear Reactions in Solids", M. Swartz, Fusion Technology, 31, 228-236 (March 1997)] and can, and therefore does, occur. They are two separate reactions whose equal rate is only observed for hot fusion systems where there is adequate temperature so as to make all states available. Nice issue of Analog, too. Liked the atom laser article by John Cramer. Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 10:30:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA15423; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:28:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:28:57 -0700 Date: 01 Jun 97 13:27:34 EDT From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Re: Triode in Bow, NH? Message-ID: <970601172733_76570.2270_FHU38-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"qXK4t3.0.um3.N5Rap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7691 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott, The second Ragland cell is now with Chris Tinsley, who will begin testing it in the next few days. My schedule was not working out to do the work that had to be done. If one of the cells works in the UK, then I will test and exhibit a good one here. Soon, however, I expect to be testing a multi-kilowatt (thermal) device that has a very high pedigree, indeed. It is supposed to arrive here within the next month. No further details will be provided until (and if) it does arrive - so please don't ask. Gene From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 11:01:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA21692; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:59:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:59:49 -0700 Date: 01 Jun 97 13:57:41 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: No steel strips yet - Barry's computatio Message-ID: <970601175740_72240.1256_EHB80-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"0ZDD32.0.rI5.JYRap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7695 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex Several people have asked me if I have backed the array of magnets with an iron strip, per Greg's instructions. The answer is no, and I am seriously out of spec in many other ways, too. The size of the ball versus the height of the magnets, the end of the ramp and many other parameters are wrong. Because I have no iron backing yet, I see mild cogging when the ball moves past the magnet array. I can also feel it when I hold a ball in my fingers and move it through. I have not even begun to replicate Greg's machine. I built Terry Blanton's variation of it, because I had most of the parts lying around, it took me a half-hour, and I wanted to check Terry's roll-away claims. I do not have the proper tools to build the real thing. However, even a fake one is instructive. Anyone who wants to follow the discussion is well advised to build something. But unless you build it EXACTLY to spec, to the best of your ability, you cannot judge the o-u claims. If I may say, this is analogous to suggesting back in 1903 that those who wish to understand aviation should build kites. That does not mean kites work like airplanes. It means you can learn from them. Back in 1898 an informal society of aviation enthusiasts in Boston built a number of kites and learned a lot. So did the Wrights with their wing warping kite tests. Frank Stenger writes: you might try to get multi-array feed through with a level, continuous track. . . . . . . Maybe the vertical drop is necessary to get gravitational "tunneling" through the magnetic exit potential barrier? That's my understanding. I don't see how it could possibly work on a level, continuous track. But I don't see how it can work at all! Chris Tinsley writes: Greg wants agreed criteria for OU, but I think that's impossible and probably a waste of time. An online group can't decide things like that. If we ask two people here even for a definition of OU, we'd probably get three such. I disagree. I think the definition is obvious. You begin with the ball standing stock still. You release it without giving it any measurable push. (You verify this releasing on a level rail with no magnets -- it doesn't move.) The ball is drawn by the magnets, moving by itself. It goes around the track completely, and it is still moving when it passes the starting point. If this happens even once it is over unity. It is an apparent violation of the laws of physics. If it happens 10, 100 or 1,000 times it is all the more amazing. I don't see how any scientist could disagree. I realize that Barry Merriman has said he thinks this could be explained by the known laws of physics. I would bet him $1,000 he cannot find a single professor in the entire University of California system who agrees. They will all say: 1. It would be a gross violation of the First Law if it could happen; but, 2. It can never happen -- absolutely, positively, never!!! Barry should ask around. He should take an informal poll. Furthermore, if you could show these professors Greg's toy working in a closed loop they would say it is a fake, there must be hidden electromagnets or something like that. Not one will believe his own eyes. You could not persuade one to test it in his own lab: they will refuse to look. If, by some miracle (or by paying a $2000 'consulting fee') you can get a professor to do a test in the lab, he will cheat. I have seen how professors act when confronted by things like cold fusion data or a test of the Griggs machine. They tie themselves in knots. They fudge the numbers by 2 or 3 even 5 orders of magnitude, rather than admit the truth. And then, when all else fails and they are forced to admit the truth, they will casually ignore their own textbooks! They will say there is no reason why you cannot get 100 megajoules out of a half-gram of fuel -- ho, hum, that's perfectly normal, just an ordinary part of everyday physics. Frank Close says everyone knows that's just inner shell electron bonds.. A boring phenomenon, not worth a second glance. You ask again and again: show me the physics or chemistry textbook where such miraculous fuel is described. They never answer. I *would* bet that, but I never make wagers. Call me old fashioned, but I find betting and lotteries distasteful and vaguely immoral. Call me hypocritical, because I have, of course, risked hundreds of thousands of dollars in business investments, including ~$120,000 or so I have spent on cold fusion ventures. The one thing you cannot call me is cowardly or unwilling to put my money where my mouth is. That, I believe, is what Barry and many other "skeptics" have insinuated with these offers to place bets. I dismiss them all, with contempt. I have already paid my dues with far larger sums of money than any skeptic would ever dare to risk, but I am making a wager with nature (or God, if you will), not with man. Now, Barry proposes (I think) that the initial pull of the magnets will cause the ball to loop around the system for a very long time. Like Scott, I deny this possibility because of experience. I deny it because of experience, and because every related test of magnetic fields that I know of show that they work like gravitational fields: it takes exactly as much energy to move the ball out of the field as you gain by going into it. This has been tested outside the ranks of the o-u wannabees. For example, someone commented that the SMOT might look like a very low-friction closed loop of rails. But I can assure anyone who hasn't played with mechanical things that a half-inch ball will not roll around a track - no matter how perfect - for very long, no matter how hard you shove it. Absolutely right. And you can verify this on your own, without reference to the Smot device, by pushing a ball on a circular track; or having it roll back and forth on a track with inclinations at either end (the test reported here); or by building a small pendulum with a steel bearing at the end of a long thread to measure the effects of air resistance. Anyone who does that will instantly see that Merriman's claims are absurd. The ball cannot possibly roll for 1 hour, or 17 hours, from the KE of drop of ~20 cm. And anything that makes it go much faster than a 20 cm drop will require a specially designed track to prevent the ball from flying off. You can drop a ball from 1 meter by suspending it at the end of a 5 meter thread, in a pendulum. There will be no track friction and hence no detectible noise. (Maybe a bat could hear it "whoosh," but I can't.) The only thing that slows it down is air resistance to the ball and thread and the flexing of thread where it is tied to the beam at the top. Yet it will not go for more than an hour, if that. A ball going down a track and periodically falling a few millimeters makes a terrific amount of noise and vibration. It is heated up internally by the eddy currents of the magnets. Furthermore, it would be incredibly difficult to make the magnetic field uniform all the way around the loop at every point, so on the first pass around the ball would probably be captured by a high point in the field. It would oscillate for a few seconds, and then come to dead halt. And, of course, if you did make the field perfectly uniform then it cannot pull the ball in the first place. Barry has obviously miscalculated something by three orders of magnitude. I don't follow his computations, but I have played with enough toys, bearings, bicycles, small pendulums and other things to know he is wrong. When he came up with the answer of 17 hours for the KE equal to a fall of -- what was it, 50 cm? 5 cm? -- he should have realized instantly and intuitively that he was wrong. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 11:02:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA15016; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: 01 Jun 97 13:55:28 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Triode in Bow, NH? Message-ID: <970601175527_100433.1541_BHG39-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"-4HBe2.0.Pg3.XWRap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7692 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott, > I saw in IE #12 that you also received a Ragland triode cell. > Have you begun testing it yet? I've got it, because Gene is over-burdened as it is. I hope to fire it up as soon as I've re-calibrated with it. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 11:04:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA15034; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: 01 Jun 97 13:55:26 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Last AND Least? Message-ID: <970601175526_100433.1541_BHG39-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"1W4zG2.0.Wg3.YWRap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7693 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott, > Anyone in the Blu-Tak countries care to trade for a couple of > packs? If I promise publicly, then I won't forget ... I've just packed up two packs/sheets of Blu-Tack, and will airmail them tomorrow without fail. No need for a trade, we can't let let you poor benighted Tanks suffer just because you can't buy our high-technology products . By the way, I now see that other essential "bodge" material - duct tape - over here. Probably an inferior subsitute, though. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 11:04:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA15119; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Comments: Authenticated sender is From: ben clubelite.com (Ben Tammetta) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 01:53:05 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Online project status [FREE Energy Quest (webpage) ] Reply-to: tammetta mindspring.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Priority: normal References: <339157D2.6128F85B verisoft.com.tr> In-reply-to: <19970601140234604.AAA317 jumanji> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Message-ID: <19970601180459859.AAA281 jumanji> Resent-Message-ID: <"XqLoo.0.9i3.0XRap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7694 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ok, here it is, This will revolutionize the way we collaborate and share information. http://www.clubelite.com/fe/ Online FREE Energy Device Status ( Using WebTrack) Now everyone can post and update information on their own FREE Energy Device or SMOT project so everyone can see. I spent all my morning (5 hours) writting this program instead of closing the loop.... So Everyone better try it out and make use of it. :) Let me know if you find any bugs/errors, have suggestions, or comments Thanks, Ben ben clubelite.com http://www.clubelite.com/fe/ ###################### # Ben Tammetta # # ben clubelite.com # ###################### From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 11:04:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA22998; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:03:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:03:03 -0700 Date: 01 Jun 97 14:01:07 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Re: Last AND Least? Message-ID: <970601180106_100433.1541_BHG70-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"64ZW_2.0.Gd5.LbRap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7696 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > No need for a trade, we can't let let you poor benighted Tanks > suffer just because you can't buy our high-technology products > . Sheesh - that one back-fired, didn't it? For Tanks read Yanks throughout.... (and for aardvarks read parking meters) Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 11:51:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA22612 for billb@eskimo.com; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:51:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: ewall-rsg worldnet.att.net Sun Jun 1 11:50:46 1997 Received: from mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net (mailhost.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.34]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA22549 for ; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([207.147.99.220]) by mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAC25126 for ; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:49:29 +0000 X-Sender: ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ed Wall Subject: Tired Balls (was Re: Art Bell WANTS smot-x) Old-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:49:29 +0000 Message-ID: <19970601184917.AAC25126 LOCALNAME> X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: vortex-l Status: O X-Status: John Logajan wrote: >As Chris Tinsley has suggested, non-magnetized iron is really just >a horde of randomly aligned magnetic domains -- in a net higher energy >state. > >Therefore placing an un-magentized iron ball in the device is to put >a higher energy state object in the fields of the rail magnets. It takes energy to magnetize a ferromagnetic material. Hpyothetically, some of the energy used in setting up the magnetic field is stored in the permanent magnet. Therefore, the magnetized material is in a higher state of energy than the one with the randomized domains, contrary to the preceeding paragraph. Energy is used in any change of domain orientation. The question is whether a magnetic field can do work (closed cycle). If it can, as seems the case here, then a magnetized material is in a higher state of energy than before it is magnetized and the SMOT is not only continuously running without conventional energy input, it is storing energy in the magnetic field of the ball. >Since Chris suggests that these rail magnets cannot become de-magnetized >without energy being added, by reverse logic, the ball cannot become >magnetized without giving up energy. > Isn't an ordered system at higher state of potential energy than a random one, all else being equal, as in this case? >This hypothesis suggests that balls do indeed get tired -- tired to >the extent that they get magnetized. Therefore if this conjecture >is true, the balls must eventually roll to a stop. > This is awfully reminiscent of Bearden's references to re-guaging, as in Takahasi, Kwai and Johnson motors. Ed Wall From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 12:23:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA03720; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:21:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:21:50 -0700 Date: 01 Jun 97 15:19:31 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: No steel strips yet - Barry's computatio Message-ID: <970601191931_100433.1541_BHG46-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"0ebIj1.0.2w.DlSap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7697 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jed, > I disagree. I think the definition is obvious. I agree. But I said that few here will agree with any single definition of OU. I (for example) would say that if the ball starts from rest and clicks and whizzes its way around the track, only to pass through its original position (same mag and grav PE) and keep going - then THAT is OU, defining OU as I do. You have to remember that OU only remains OU until the present definition of C of E is updated to accomodate the device. That's been done once before, to allow for mass-energy conversion. For example, if it could be shown that the putative working SMOT was tapping the ZPE, then an amendment to C of E might not be needed at all, while if it was shown to be a special case, then an exception could be made in the Principle. On the other hand, it might just be that the (putative, remember, we have not yet seen a full replication or demo) working SMOT was doing something really weird like taking heat energy from the environment and making mechanical energy. Second Law violation, but otherwise no problem for C of E. > I realize that Barry Merriman has said he thinks this could be > explained by the known laws of physics. I would bet him $1,000 he > cannot find a single professor in the entire University of > California system who agrees. Jed, if the SMOT really works then there will be no problem in finding any number of profs who'll say absolutely anything at all. I'm just worried that Greg would try to prove something was OU and get people to agree with him. To be honest, I would have difficulty in accepting a closed-loop SMOT if I had painstakingly made it myself; I certainly would assume that one I was shown was a trick. If Greg tries to prove to academic scientists that his gadget works, then I predict that he will just end up frustrated and angry. *If* his device works, he should spread acceptance by replication and by sale of toys - as he appears to want to do. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 12:36:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA00419; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:34:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:34:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: 01 Jun 97 15:31:16 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: No steel strips yet - Barry's computatio Message-ID: <970601193116_76016.2701_JHC32-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"Gr0fo1.0.S6.owSap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7698 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed sed: >> I built Terry Blanton's variation of it, because I had most of the parts lying around, it took me a half-hour, and I wanted to check Terry's roll-away claims.<< Jed, please don't mislead these folks with the word "claims". I heard you say the word "fascinating" many times while you played with my jerry-rigged device. I'll be glad to come by your office and get your device to exhibit roll-away if you wish. The ball starts with virtually zero momentum in the horizontal plane. Properly adjusted, the ball exits the device with significant momentum in the horizontal plane after rising several mm. I have torn it down and rebuilt it many times. I have confirmed the impact surfaces are level. You can drop a steel ball from many miles and as long as it falls vertically and is internally homogeneous, striking a rigid, horizontal surface will not impart horizontal momentum. I agree with everyone who says build Greg's device per specs. I would also ask Greg, once things have died down a bit, to build one with the graduated flux density with varying layers of magnets as I did. Whether the momentum is imparted by increasing field intensity (spreading magnets, a la Watson) or increasing flux density, the device exhibits an anomaly. I'm really concerned with this idea of "wearing out permanent magnets". I have some old AR speakers which are over 30 years old. They played Pink Floyd ("Put Down That Ax, Eugene") exceptionally in the 60's and do so today. Will they still work in the new millennium? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 12:45:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA06667; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:43:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:43:11 -0700 From: Nackles aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970601154222_-629924729 emout09.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Some questions from a new SMOTer Resent-Message-ID: <"Wguai2.0.wd1.D3Tap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7700 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: 1. Re the Qfield simulations - has anyone systematically looked at the effects of magnet strength and magnet array positions on the 'blue hole'? With stronger magnets, I think that the hole will be smaller, have a larger gradient around it - and will therefore be harder to hit with the ball. Which would account for the alignment sensitivity I see with the strong big magnets I am using. 2. I see the term 'regauging' thrown around some. Could someone please explain this, or give me a reference or two? I am sort of familier with gauge in the context of electromagnetic theory - is regauging a particular form of gauge transformation? Would a gauge transformation that does _not_leave B invariant allow for non CofE? For magnetic fields doing work? 3. Anyone got a US source for those 'magic marbles' - hollow glass balls? Found several jars of Fe powder at my local govt. surplus equipment pusher the other day... 4. I too recall being told/reading that 'magnets cannot do work'. Anyone ever seen a theoretical 'proof' or 'demonstration' of this claim? I suspect it is true for simple dipole fields and the like. But in the SMOT, the topology of the field has been distorted - maybe even changed - might field topology have bearing on the possibility of doing work? 5. As I understand it, in a plasma context magnetic field lines can be broken and reconnected (e.g. in the corona, during mass ejections, etc). Can magnetic field lines be broken and reconnected in more mundane contexts? 'Lines' is of course just an abstraction - are we talking about discontinuities in B and H here? Grateful for some answers and comments... Mike Wilkins From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 12:45:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA06547; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:42:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:42:57 -0700 From: Nackles aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970601154218_56172735 emout05.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: New SMOTer & ramp Resent-Message-ID: <"QVcRY2.0.Cc1.03Tap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7699 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greetings Everyone, Been lurking for a while, got interested in SMOT, and have started building. Got one ramp operating, and a 2nd is being built. Have to depart from Greg's specs right now, as there is a shortage of parts where I live (small town) but have the right parts on order. Quick question - should I write a short introduction? Or just jump in? I am basically a physicist - BSc in '61 in England. Basic ramp specs: magnets - Radio Shack #640-1877 ferrite, 48 x 22 x 10 mm, magnetized across 10mm dim (found them at 10 for $0.99, got 50) magnets backed by steel bars, 1 - 1" x 1/8" bar each side use 4 magnets per side superglued to steel bar outside track to magnets: 21mm at entrance, 14mm at S curve exit magnet assemblies held by 1-1/2" dissecting pins ball - bearing 14mm dia, ~12gm track - Al channel 13 x 13mm int, 1mm wall, 16cm long (top of lower V to start of S curve) track height: center of ball 1mm below vertical center of magnets S cut on exit end per Greg base - 1/4" foamcore and sheets of balsa With a lot of fiddling, last night I got reproducible ball roll out from the exit, with a track rise of 12mm. Ball will roll out across the table top at an initial vel of ~15cm/sec, starting from rest at entrance. About 7 times out of 10 ball will roll in line of track +- maybe 20 deg., 3 out of 10 it goes off at sharp angles. Table top is almost level - very slight slope down opposite to direction of ball roll. Some misc. observations: - current magnets too big and strong, am experimenting with moving them father out from track, will replace with smaller ones when they arrive. - it is possible to feel the 'blue hole', holding the ball between finger and thumb. - with these magnets and dimensions, adjustment for roll-out is _very_ touchy indeed, too much so I think. A 0.5mm shift in track/magnet position and roll -out stops. Mike Wilkins From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 12:47:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA07297; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:45:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:45:41 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970601194523.00699840 atlantic.net> X-Sender: johmann atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 15:45:23 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Kurt Johmann Subject: Re: Mini comets Resent-Message-ID: <"NDyzL1.0.un1.Z5Tap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7701 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 CompuServe.COM> writes: [good comments about Frank's microcomets snipped] >There is one aspect of the Earth bombardment issue that remains a source >of incredulity among many scientists: the idea that humanity is under >serious threat from meteor impacts. The sceptics are still demanding hard >evidence for this threat. We can only hope that the "hard evidence" >doesn't come in the form of a billion-tonne meteor any time soon. I recently bought and read a book on this dangerous-comets subject, and highly recommend: "Impact! : The Threat of Comets & Asteroids" by Gerrit Verschuur (1996, Oxford University Press, in hardcover, $25, 237 pages). According to the book jacket, Verschuur is a "noted radio astronomer and author of many articles and books popularizing astronomy". I can believe this, because I found it to be both an erudite and very well researched and written book. In a nutshell, the danger is greater than most people realize, and "civilization destroying" impactors (much smaller than what killed the dinosaurs) are not as rare and unlikely as one might think. I don't want to give away too much of the book, but it is a real eye-opener (at least for me it was). Among other things, one thing that makes this book a cut-above the typical dangerous-comets books that are now available (I examined four different ones before I bought this one) is that Verschuur is not afraid to look at -- and comment on -- human writings that point to specific ocean impacts in the not-so-long-ago-past. Kurt Johmann -- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 13:04:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA10309; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:03:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:03:07 -0700 Message-ID: <3391D593.1017 interlaced.net> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 16:03:31 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: No steel strips yet - Barry's computatio References: <970601175740_72240.1256_EHB80-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7F2VW1.0._W2.wLTap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7703 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > (snip) The ball cannot possibly roll > for 1 hour, or 17 hours, from the KE of drop of ~20 cm. Absolutely right, Jed! My semi-functional, off-spec SMOT I described earlier - is a good oscillator. With everything on a level board, the large 1.5 inch dia. ball will oscillate the full length of the track, to and fro with no elevation change. The ball, on a 12 mm wide track, has fairly low rolling friction - no banging off the end of the rail, etc. The decay in amplitude goes about like this: Time zero -------- initial amplitude about 150 mm 0 + 20 seconds --- down to ~ half amplitude 0 + 100 sec. ----- full stop - maybe 120 excursions or so. What could I do to this rig to make the ball oscillate for one hour?? If Greg's claims are confirmed - look for new physics!! My last Chinese fortune cookie said I had a "magnetic personality" - I had to build at least ONE SMOT ramp, didn't I? A skeptic that "cuts metal", as time permits ------- Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 13:05:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA04490; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: 01 Jun 97 15:59:21 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: OU criterion Message-ID: <970601195921_100433.1541_BHG100-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"DxzDP.0.-51.uKTap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7702 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Perhaps worth saying why my own criterion for SMOT OU is the way it is. I defined it by saying that if the ball is released at zero velocity, at any point on the circuit - the claimant is allowed to choose it - and it returns to the same point at a non-zero velocity, that satisfies me that it is OU. It has the same gravitational and magnetic PE, it has greater KE, and has done work (and made eddy currents if the ball conducts) with zero energy input (despite what Barry says). Barry's magnet pull is irrelevant, because the magnet push is equal. That is apparent OU. OK, if there is energy available from magnetising the ball, any stuff like that, then I say that this is tiny compared with the eddy current and other losses. Chris (who still won't believe it until he sees it, and maybe not then) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 13:11:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA11706; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:08:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:08:55 -0700 From: Nackles aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 16:08:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970601160815_-229149485 emout20.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Device to recirculate balls? Resent-Message-ID: <"WTKyj3.0.ms2.MRTap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7704 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I remembered that about 10 years ago I got a toy for my son, called 'Spacewarp, The Ultimate Rollercoaster'. And I saw one in a catalog the other day. A set of flexible ~1/8" plastic tubes, used in pairs with plastic clips to form tracks for ~1/2" - 5/8" steel balls. A base with holes, Al vertical rods to support arms that hold the clips. Balls are elevated to the high point by a electric motor driven Archimedes screw. As the tube clips rotate on the arms, tracks can be tilted, loops can be made, etc. Until people get the full closed-loop SMOT running, or for experiments, parts of this device could be handy for recirculating balls on SMOTs? For that matter, an Archimedes screw to lift balls should not be too hard to rig up. Here are the details for the source I found: Bits & Pieces, 1 Puzzle Place, B8016, Stevens Point, WI 54481-7199 24 hr order # 1-800-544-7297. Item is #06-N7791, p.38 in Fall 1996 catalog, $34.95. Was in stock as of Friday last. Mike Wilkins From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 13:41:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA09925; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: < snip.net> From: "Mike Carrell" To: Subject: Re: Rich Murray's "Seventh Miley Critique" Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:02:10 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19970601203747603.AAA190 default> Resent-Message-ID: <"0Wk403.0.zQ2.VsTap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7705 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In his Seventh Miley Critique, Rich Murray finds dissatisfaction with a Miley paper in certail details of data and presentation, which he has distributed to vortex and 27 other correspondents, in case they did not happen to see his comments on vortex. He concludes the body of his critique with: >What must we conclude about the credibility of "Infinite Energy" >magazine, when radical reports are published without reasonable scrutiny >either prior or post publication? In charity, I will assume that Rich Murray is unaware that IE is the product of a single, dedicated man, who literally puts the magazine together with a desktop publishing system by himself. I have visited his home and seen the setup. He produces a data cartridge which a printer turns into a stack of magazines, which Gene packages and mails himself. He has a family to support and IE barely pays for its own costs. The circulation, while small, vastly exceeds the audience of the teapot in which the conversation of vortex circulates (as in tempest in). Without Gene's efforts, Rich would remain blissfully unaware of Miley's work, which he has opened with great courage to public inspection. The mission of IE is not to presume to confer the imprimatur of Truth (as with Nature or Science), but to provide information which is screened and which is presented with appropriate caveats for the study of readers such as Rich Murray. Rich Murray was perhaps not aware that his attack on IE was tantamount to a personal attack on Gene Mallove, to whom we all owe considerable gratitude. Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 14:02:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA12553; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: 01 Jun 97 16:55:51 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: New SMOTer & ramp Message-ID: <970601205550_100433.1541_BHG81-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"J2XC82.0.143.AAUap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7706 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A Mike, > With a lot of fiddling, last night I got reproducible ball roll > out from the exit, with a track rise of 12mm. Ball will roll out > across the table top at an initial vel of ~15cm/sec, starting from > rest at entrance. Nice to see a fresh voice here. I'm not suggesting that you are claiming anything, but I think we have to agree that if you mean that the ball starts on the channel and ends up rolling across the table upon which the ramp stands, then this is not *clear* evidence of anything much. 15cm/sec as mv^2 is 225m units of KE, which equates (at 981cm/sec^2) via e = mgh to a height of 0.23cm, which is less than the ramp height. Of course, if we had a value for eddy current heating and frictional losses, it might help. > - it is possible to feel the 'blue hole', holding the ball between > finger and thumb. This is interesting. I can feel it too, and very odd it feels. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 14:23:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA16440; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3391E77E.1EB6 interlaced.net> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 17:19:58 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Greg, Clarification, please! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jZ-0r1.0.i04.0UUap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7708 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg, some time ago you posted: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > Sorry to say, but my patent attorney has pulled the plug. > > What did you mean by this statement, Greg? Here in the US this would mean that your attorney stopped action on your patent - can you clarify?? Wondering, Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 14:23:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA24017; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:19:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:19:44 -0700 Message-ID: <3391F4A4.254 ro.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 15:16:04 -0700 From: Patrick Reavis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l Subject: another webpage... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Lzfyu2.0.At5.lTUap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7709 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greetings Vortexians! I've posted some of Greg's and Jean-Louis' data to my webpage. The first thing you will notice is that I'm no webpage designer! If anyone out there in cyber-ville has any suggestions for improvement, I'll gladly implement them. Just click on the flashing neon sign "SMOT". Pleasant day to all Patrick PS. Thanks to Both Greg and Jean-Louis for their efforts as well as their graphics... -- The Double Naught Spy http://ro.com/~preavis From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 14:26:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA25050; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:22:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:22:40 -0700 Date: 01 Jun 97 17:21:25 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: No steel strips yet - Barry's comput Message-ID: <970601212125_100433.1541_BHG40-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"c2j3G1.0.J76.UWUap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7710 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Terry, > I'm really concerned with this idea of "wearing out permanent > magnets". I have some old AR speakers which are over 30 years > old. They played Pink Floyd ("Put Down That Ax, Eugene") > exceptionally in the 60's and do so today. Will they still work > in the new millennium? Nope. They will suddenly demagnetise, and convert the energy which they probably don't have into blasting the entire speaker enclosure into orbit. Be afraid, etc. Chris (who is taking Sunday off, as you will have noticed) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 14:27:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA15255; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3391C7EE.AC6CB755 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 23:05:18 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Symmetry breaking X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_DkVc.0.Hk3.MPUap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7707 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, I have and theoretical comment on the SMOT. High energy physics is mainly based on symmetry and symmetry breaking. Symmetries have deep meaning on physics. Nobody is alien to CPT (Charge, Parity and the Time symmetries). Generally when a symmetry of the nature is broken then an energy is freed (like nuclear energy). Look at the Watson device. Fields are asymmetric. Motion is geometrical and time wise asymmetric. geometrically (parity) asymmetric because the device is not working when the ball is fetched from the exit. Time asymmetric because it is possible to determine whether the video is plated forward or backward. The symmetries issues of the SMOT may be examined deeply and discussed by real physicist. I am afraid to say something wrong about physics. Last statement: If there is an energy around us (like ZPE) and hidden by symmetries, SMOT is a good nominee to free it by means of symmetry breaking. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 14:30:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA26614; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:28:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:28:01 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970601161623_76016.2701_JHC44-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:26:47 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Are Metal Hydrides Safe? Resent-Message-ID: <"1zWL61.0.kV6.VbUap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7711 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry - > [...] Red Mercury. You'd better put a after that phrase if you want to keep the dark suits off your porch. :) I'm sure there wouldn't be any problem with unknown or unusual metal hydride reactions as long as the buses don't hit any sharp bumps. Just keep all the potholes fixed! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 14:39:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA18708; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3391EA2C.4988 microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 07:01:24 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT apology Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6DzMa1.0.9a4.HhUap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7712 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, The net is a special place where free expression is still alive. The Freenrg-l and Vortex-l discussion groups are composed of intelligent, caring adults with a variation of backgrounds, skills, experiences and approaches. I have NO right to DEMAND that discussion of the SMOT device is limited to those who acutally have built a device. I apologize to ALL of you for taking that line. I was VERY wrong. I thank many of you for your private posts on this subject. Your points finally did sink home through my thick SMOT success filled head. I value ALL of your ideas. Can we start again? I have given the SMOT device to the world. Its not mine to control anymore, its now in your hands. With my feet on the ground again, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 14:39:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA28135; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:36:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:36:35 -0700 Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:36:28 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: New SMOTer & ramp In-Reply-To: <970601205550_100433.1541_BHG81-1 CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"To-jJ2.0.Xt6.YjUap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7713 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 1 Jun 1997, Chris Tinsley wrote: > I'm not suggesting that you are claiming anything, but I think we have > to agree that if you mean that the ball starts on the channel and ends > up rolling across the table upon which the ramp stands, then this is > not *clear* evidence of anything much. Imagine the whole ramp-assembly as being an energy well. If the guide rails are extended to great lengths before and after a single ramp, and if a ball is released 20cm from the start of the ramp, the ball should roll through the ramp, pass through the "deepest" part of the "well", and roll up the other "side" and halt (perhaps rolling backwards.) Depending on where the center of this "well" resides, the ball can only roll a few tens of cm from the end of the ramp. Friction will reduce this distance, and o/u forces will increase it. If the ball continues to roll to a great distance, it indicates o/u performance. Oops, I see what you mean. If a ball is placed on the guide rails right at the start of the ramp, the ball is therefor initially at a small height. If it drops off the other end of the ramp and falls to the tabletop, then it has fallen an extra cm or so, and could easily perform a misleading "roll away" which signifies little. For a "roll away" to signify o/u operation, the ball must drop onto a long length of guide rail rather than onto the tabletop. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 14:45:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA29095; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:42:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:42:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3391EC60.3C3A microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 07:10:48 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Last AND Least? References: <199706011400.JAA01114 natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"r6U5b.0.K67.OpUap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7714 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > At 06:04 AM 6/1/97 EDT, Chris Tinsley wrote: > > >Well, your dimensions are outside the limits set in Greg's list. He > >says that the ball diameter must be 10% - 25% greater than the magnet > >height. > > I see that...yet it's odd that the larger ball seems to work better (i.e. > zooms up the ramp faster and rolls clear easier) than the smaller balls > which are closer to Greg's spec...? Suspect this is because the bigger ball has a larger mag field differential (front to back) than a smaller ball and the force produced is related the the square of the flux density differential? May also be due to the larger ball having less mass below the roll line (less mass moving backward)? You are the mechanical engineer, right? > >Complaining about.... > > I'm not _complaining_....just reporting, as requested. Others have gotten > varying degrees of success with sizes and shapes that depart considerably > from Greg's original specs, haven't they? Yes, but it seems the closer you are to the spec, the better. > Scott Little Hi Scott, I thought your son was going to do the building? Best Regards, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 14:50:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA21357; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:46:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:46:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33919568.6983 interlaced.net> References: <199706011400.JAA01114 natasha.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:44:25 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Last AND Least? Resent-Message-ID: <"dC2DW2.0.bD5.nsUap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7715 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frank - > I'm not trying to upset Greg's sequence here, > but if some of you advanced SMOTers are > interested, you might try to get multi-array > feed through with a level, continuous track. It occured to me that a horizontal elbow might be a way to see one-'ramp' rollaway, or at least a convenient 90 degree section making it 1/4 of a complete circle. I thought of using an over-under magnet array setup on an elbowed track, actually a piece of copper tube. Tried it, but it turns out that putting a sharp bend in tube that stays cleanly countoured on the inside isn't trivial. I shoulda known that. I think it needs the elbow to kick the ball out the field hole in Greg's sims. Otherwise too much energy is spent punching the wall. I've finally got the right magnets to do Greg's recipe, so I'm going to spend most of my SMOT time on that now. Got one good ramp working to specs, and it seems to have the required 1/4 rail height gain needed engage linking. It has weaker rollback force after dropoff than the wide magnet version I had been playing with too. But when I try the horizontal elbow again, I'll just use a rectangular boxlike tube assembled from sintra with a clear 'lid'. The ball can roll on whatever surface it wants to in there without skidding or dragging, and still stay tracking very near the centerline if I make the clearance just a constant RCH over the ball diameter. Happy SMOTing and kitchen remodeling to you. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 14:52:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA30837; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:50:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:50:09 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970601180106_100433.1541_BHG70-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:48:57 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Last AND Least? Resent-Message-ID: <"uMT-C.0.lX7.GwUap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7717 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris - >Sheesh - that one back-fired, didn't it? For Tanks read Yanks >throughout.... You should have left it alone - you had the Aussies impressed, at least. Where do you think the term "Seppo" derived from? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 14:53:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA30379; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:47:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:47:37 -0700 Message-Id: <3391D119.43083153 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 23:44:25 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: New SMOTer & ramp X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <970601154218_56172735 emout05.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"s5nL71.0.bQ7.utUap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7716 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Mike, My magnets also have similar size (40x25x10) I started by making 160mm size magnet block(40x4). It not worked fine and I shortened them to 120mm. I strongly recommend. 14 mm ball may not be drop on strong fields on exit. You may cure it by larger diameter ball. I am using 17mm ball. Naudin uses 25mm! Track aperture is too much. Ball can not synchronize it speed with it rotation on decelerating end part of the track and may slide without reducing its rotation. Polishing the track will boost the performance dramatically. Currently my ramp rise the ball up to 28mm and drop the ball on the table. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 15:29:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA04510; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:25:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:25:02 -0700 Date: 01 Jun 97 18:23:46 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: No steel strips yet - Barry's comput Message-ID: <970601222345_76016.2701_JHC23-3 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"uayyX2.0.761.wQVap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7719 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Center Tap said: >>They will suddenly demagnetise, and convert the energy which they probably don't have into blasting the entire speaker enclosure into orbit.<< Kewl! And this won't necessarily be one of those "flashbacks" they promised? >>Chris (who is taking Sunday off, as you will have noticed)<< Explain this phrase "taking off", please. Terry (baby-sitting the grandchildren {1-1/2 and 7 yrs old.} on a Sunday afternoon) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 15:31:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA04611; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:25:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:25:16 -0700 Date: 01 Jun 97 18:23:45 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Mini comets Message-ID: <970601222344_76016.2701_JHC23-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"qPauE.0.861.wQVap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7720 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: My concern in a comet impact is that an incident similar to that which occured in the Russian outback in 1908 {?} could happen in China at a Murphey Moment. They might think it a pre-emptive nuclear attack by the US or Russia. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 15:32:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA04549; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:25:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:25:09 -0700 Date: 01 Jun 97 18:23:06 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: New SMOTer & ramp Message-ID: <970601222306_76016.2701_JHC23-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"gwy_R1.0.161.wQVap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7718 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris said (regarding the blue hole): >>This is interesting. I can feel it too, and very odd it feels.<< Indeed, it feels like the dice when you're about to make your point. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 15:38:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA07528; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:31:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:31:51 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970601154218_56172735 emout05.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:12:36 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: New SMOTer & ramp Resent-Message-ID: <"rpcdC3.0.Hq1.DXVap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7720 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mike - > - it is possible to feel the 'blue hole', > holding the ball between finger and thumb. Yes! Feel the blue hole. Makes it palpably real, and helps keeps focus on how this stuff is *supposed* to work. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 15:48:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA11785; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:40:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:40:55 -0700 Date: 01 Jun 97 18:39:45 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Are Metal Hydrides Safe? Message-ID: <970601223945_76016.2701_JHC129-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"T_3vs.0.pt2.qfVap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7722 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick, >>You'd better put a after that phrase if you want to keep the dark suits off your porch. :)<< You know me. I've been seeking the trophy head of a MIB for years. They'd better come better armed than Alex Trebak (sp?) in that X-Files episode. >>I'm sure there wouldn't be any problem with unknown or unusual metal hydride reactions as long as the buses don't hit any sharp bumps. Just keep all the potholes fixed!<< LOL! I'm more concerned about what the batteries shorted through the hydride might release. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 15:56:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA29621; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:37:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:37:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970601175740_72240.1256_EHB80-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:34:51 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: No steel strips yet - Barry's computatio Resent-Message-ID: <"rKWLc2.0.lE7.IcVap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7721 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed - > When he came up with the answer of 17 > hours for the KE equal to a fall of -- what > was it, 50 cm? 5 cm? -- he should have > realized instantly and intuitively that he was > wrong. As I should have before posting when I came up with 4000mph Dremels. I was off by ~2 orders of magnitude. But when Barry does the same thing, he says it's not a math error since the actual arithmetic on the numbers he chose to use was presumably correct. I admit numbers can look nice in and of themselves, like gleaming fancy show cars on display - but real cars are for the roads. They have to be practical. His numbers are not. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 16:15:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA01723; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:48:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970601193116_76016.2701_JHC32-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:46:05 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: No steel strips yet - Barry's computatio Resent-Message-ID: <"EMHOp3.0.qQ.amVap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7723 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry - > The ball starts with virtually zero > momentum in the horizontal plane. > Properly adjusted, the ball exits the device > with significant momentum in the horizontal > plane after rising several mm. Just reading that makes me feel dense. I don't get it, or just can't believe it. Once more for the terminally slow Terry, if you please: Are you getting complete rollaway at the **same level on which the ball was started** with the single ramp? If so, why don't you then make a wrap-around track of some sort and use this "significant momentum" to close the loop? Do you have any way of creating a digital image of this rig for posting or e-mailing? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 16:20:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA23897; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 16:17:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 16:17:55 -0700 Message-ID: <339202AC.52DB microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 08:45:56 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Energy Theory (Some questions first) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Tdk613.0.vq5.XCWap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7724 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Barry and all, 1) Barry, as I understand part of your theory, a domain unaligned ferromagnetic ball is at a higher energy state than a domain aligned ball. I think that's the basic of part of what you said. Is this correct? 2) By a higher energy state, I assume you refer to the unaligned domain's magnetic fields nulling each other out (not cancelling!) and staying internal to the ball. In other words, the energy in the domains magnetic fields is contained with-in the ball. Is this correct? 3) By a lower energy state, I assume you refer to the aligned domains magnetic fields now being present in the space outside the ball. This moves some of the domains magnetic field energy from inside the ball to outside the ball. This results in a higher magnetic field energy external to the ball and therefore reduces the magnetic field energy inside the ball. So the energy inside the ball has reduced and the domain aligned ball is at a lower energy state. Is this correct? Thanks in advance for the answers, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 16:35:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA10558; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 16:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 16:32:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Nackles aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:30:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970601193035_-1866263278 emout01.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: New SMOTer & ramp Resent-Message-ID: <"N8kSU2.0.pa2.jPWap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7725 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Responding to Chris To clarify, I have now also put a second Al track level, start point under the S curve on the SMOT ramp. Height of this level ramp = height of release point of ball. Ball rolls away, slowly. I think that what this does show - is that the ball has somehow acquired energy from the magnetic field configuration/interaction. And can remove this energy from the vicinity of the magnetic field configuration. It also gives me a warm fuzzy feeling that I can couple ramps (that in progress now with a 2nd ramp). Like being able to feel the blue hole. A point about the calculations that were flying around on vortex earlier. What about rotational energy of the ball. I have done some back of the envelope calculations (people, please check me on these!!): Steel ball dia 14mm, density 7.9 gm/cm2. Mass = 16.2gm (note change from my earlier mass - cheap scale that measures in increments of 12 gm!) Moment of inertia about axis through center = 3.2 gm.cm2 Ball rolls on lines separated by 13mm. Hence rolling radius = 0.26cm. Observed 16cms travel up ramp in 1.5 secs, hence _average_ vel V = 10cm/sec. Hence _av_ angular vel = 77rad/sec Hence rotational K.E. ~ 9500 gm.cm2/sec2 and ang. momentum ~ 250 gm.cm2/sec. For comparison, the linear kinetic energy is ~ 8000 gm.cm2/sec2 The point being that a significant amount of energy picked up by the ball (from somewhere) goes into rotational energy. Mike From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 16:38:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA30023; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 16:36:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 16:36:22 -0700 From: Nackles aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:35:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970601193542_2020289174 emout04.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: New SMOTer & ramp Resent-Message-ID: <"nLTRX1.0.0L7.rTWap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7726 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hamdi, I agree with all your points. Waiting for smaller magnets to arrive. And have to find some larger bearings Monday. Trouble is, Los Alamos NM where I live is basically a small town. Not many places to find stuff, apart from the one local govt. surplus dealer - 'The Black Hole'. Has an amazing amount and selection of stuff, but never what you need _right now_!!! Your points on symmetry breaking seem to be sort of in line with my question about the topology of the magnetic field. Mike From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 17:00:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA14305; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 16:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 16:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33920A15.7CA9 microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 09:17:33 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: New SMOTer & ramp References: <970601193035_-1866263278 emout01.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tgF9l.0.GV3.xgWap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7727 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Nackles aol.com wrote: > > Responding to Chris > To clarify, I have now also put a second Al track level, start point > under the S curve on the SMOT ramp. Height of this level ramp = height of > release point of ball. Ball rolls away, slowly. You of now have a micro power Ou SMOT ramp! Congrats! > I think that what this does show - is that the ball has somehow > acquired energy from the magnetic field configuration/interaction. And can > remove this energy from the vicinity of the magnetic field configuration. > It also gives me a warm fuzzy feeling that I can couple ramps (that in > progress now with a 2nd ramp). Like being able to feel the blue hole. The blue hole on entry can be observed by sliding the magnets arrays up the ramp a bit and observing that about 20mm in front of the bottom end of the mag arrays, the ball will be very gently pushed AWAY from the arrays by the mag wall on the other side of the blue hole. This effect is tiny, very small, but its there if you look for it. It helped me to believe that the QF sims were correct. The input rail needs to be very level to observe this. > A point about the calculations that were flying around on vortex > earlier. What about rotational energy of the ball. I have done some back of > the envelope calculations (people, please check me on these!!): > Steel ball dia 14mm, density 7.9 gm/cm2. > Mass = 16.2gm (note change from my earlier mass - cheap scale that > measures in increments of 12 gm!) > Moment of inertia about axis through center = 3.2 gm.cm2 > Ball rolls on lines separated by 13mm. Hence rolling radius = 0.26cm. > Observed 16cms travel up ramp in 1.5 secs, hence _average_ vel V = > 10cm/sec. > Hence _av_ angular vel = 77rad/sec > Hence rotational K.E. ~ 9500 gm.cm2/sec2 > and ang. momentum ~ 250 gm.cm2/sec. > For comparison, the linear kinetic energy is ~ 8000 gm.cm2/sec2 > > The point being that a significant amount of energy picked up by the ball > (from somewhere) goes into rotational energy. > > Mike Hi Mike, Welcome to the group. Looking forward to your linking results and increased rollaway speed. Best Regards, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 18:12:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA21345; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:08:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:08:24 -0700 Message-ID: <33921D2F.12A0 interlaced.net> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 21:09:03 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Rogue SMOTs-Monteverde References: <199706011400.JAA01114 natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xG8VK.0.ND5.7qXap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7728 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > I've finally > got the right magnets to do Greg's recipe, so I'm going to spend most of my > SMOT time on that now. Sounds like a good plan, Rick. One reason I was playing with a level track was because Greg has said he is working on a rotary version that does not use gravity. I then thought that even though the wall was strong, if I used a level track, I would have more KE to help punch through. As I said, I have only one SMOT magnet array pair, but, when I followed up the level SMOT with a large pair of alnico poles, I definitely formed a second "blue hole" as you would expect with a second SMOT array pair. Then, I could get the ball to exit the first level track and be captured by the smaller second blue hole - all with no altitude change. My tests were VERY crude and do not carry much weight. If I can get the time, I'll check Radio Shack for more magnets and see if I can get transfer to a second SMOT array using level geometry. I figure a lot of folks with more time and hardware are giving Greg's specs a good tryout - so I won't be missed if I try another angle. But when I try the horizontal elbow again, I'll just use > a rectangular boxlike tube assembled from sintra with a clear 'lid'. The > ball can roll on whatever surface it wants to in there without skidding or > dragging, and still stay tracking very near the centerline if I make the > clearance just a constant RCH over the ball diameter. > Yes, that should work! Good luck! Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 18:16:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA21846; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:11:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:11:08 -0700 Message-ID: <33921D32.73CC microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 10:39:06 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: newman-l emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Kit Offer and Web Agents Update 2nd June, 1997 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZYaM4.0.8L5.hsXap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7729 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, Sorry for this rebroadcast. this will be the last one. If you have a web site and are interested in being a agent for the SMOT kits, read the bottom of the post. If you have already responded to previous posts, all the info you need or requested is at the bottom. I have altered a few items. Thats for the proof reading guys. Here are the updated SMOT Kit and SMOT Phases details : ******************** Price per Kit : $150 Australian Dollars via International Bank Cheque made payable to Greg Watson Consulting. This is approx : 115 US Dollars, 70 UK Pounds, 660 French Francs, 158 Canadian Dollars, 3975 Belgium Francs, 195 German Marks, 13200 Japanese Yen, 165 New Zealand Dollars, 875 Swedish Krona, 192000 Italian Lira 1350 Austrian Schillings 160 Swish Francs 906 Mexican Pecos Please enclose your email address so I can confirm your order and details of the Web Site where you saw this offer. ******************** You can ALSO send money directly to my bank account. My bank (ANZ) charges me $10 Aust to process the TT (Wire transfer) : If you wish to remit funds via TT please send $160 Australian Dollars to : Acount Name : Mr. and Mrs. GO Watson, Account Number : 015-035 5774-67879 Bank : ANZ, Australian and New Zealand Banking Group Ltd., 201 Victoria Square, Adelaide, 5001, South Australia, Australia. Advise request : Please advise Greg Watson on 8270 2737 of senders details. As banks sometimes get things wrong, please advise me via e-mail when you have sent a TT. When I receive it, I will confirm your order via return e-mail. Please enclose details of the Web Site where you saw this offer. ******************** Where to send for your SMOT Kit via Snail Mail : Greg Watson Consulting, 8 Brabham Grove, Aberfolye Park, 5159, South Australia, Australia. Contact Details : Home / Business / PC Fax .......... 61 8 8270 2737 E-Mail ............................ gwatson microtronics.com.au Please enclose your email address so I can confirm your order and details of the Web Site where you saw this offer. ******************** What you will get for your $150(Bank Cheque)/$160(TT) Australian dollars : 4 x Heat formed perspex bases (Numbered, dated and signed my me), 4 x Linking ramps with "S" curve exits, 1 x Linking ramp with 90 deg exit (Rollaway / Rollaround use), 8 x Assembled Magnet Arrays, 4 x Steel Balls, 16 x Dress Making Pins, 1 x Instruction Manual, 1 x Frameable "Certificate of Authenticity", 1 x Photo of ME with the 4 linked SMOT ramps, The SMOT kits are "Exec Desk" Quality. One kit will produce 4 "Exec Desk" Toys. Each kit is hand tested my me. I will indicate the "factor default" adjustments for each ramp. ******************** Delivery : Via international postal air mail. ******************** My Personal Guarantee : Assuming that the ramps are placed on a flat level surface, I Greg Watson personal guarantee that : 1) The 4 SMOT ramps will work as individual ramps. A ball statring at rest will climb the ramp and drop out. start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm, (Ramp 1) >>>>>>> This is Phase 1 of SMOT development and testing. 2) The 4 SMOT ramps will link and deliver a ball starting at rest to the end of the 4th linked ramp and drop out. start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm, (Ramp 1) start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm, (Ramp 2) start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm, (Ramp 3) start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm. (Ramp 4) >>>>>>> This is Phase 2 of SMOT development and testing. If your SMOT kit can't do this, I will refund your money. ******************** Additional claims : Depending on your skill in adjusting the ramps and their linking, you should expect to achieve the following : 1) That the 4 linked ramps can be placed on a base board that will elevate the ramps at an angle and achieve a final ramp height at least twice the original height. The use of a board allows gradual increase of the ramp heights while you learn to power up the ramps. start at 0mm, climb to 15mm, drop to 3mm, (Ramp 1) start at 3mm, climb to 18mm, drop to 6mm, (Ramp 2) start at 6mm, climb to 21mm, drop to 9mm, (Ramp 3) start at 9mm, climb to 24mm, drop to 0mm. (Ramp 4) >>>>>> This is Phase 3 of SMOT development and testing. 2) That with the tilted linking achieved, the ball on exiting the final ramp will fall to the entry level and roll away from the ramp assemblies (staying at the entry level). (This is the first OU claim). >>>>>> This is Phase 4 of SMOT development and testing. 3) That with the rollaway achieved, a rollaround using plastic tubing will allow the ball to return to the start. (This is the second OU claim) >>>>>> This is Phase 5 of SMOT development and testing. 4) That with the rollaround achieved, the ball will re-enter the first ramp and repeat the process. (This is the third OU claim) >>>>>> This is Phase 6 and final stage of SMOT development and testing. ******************** I can't guarantee that YOU will achieve all of the above. To do so will depend on how good you get in adjusting the magnets. Many others will support my claim that getting the adjustments right can require hours of fiddling or minutes. It all depends on how much you understand the dynamics of the ramps. The more you play, the more you understand and the adjustments become second nature. ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WEB SITE OFFER <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Web sites who WISH to display this SMOT Kit offer AND qualify to receive FREE SMOT Kits, the details are as follows : When I receive orders, I will enquire of the purchaser via which Web site they became aware of the SMOT. For every 5 orders I receive via your Web site, I will sent you a FREE Smot kit. This sort of makes you my agent on a 20% commission. You are able to onsell the SMOT kits if you so wish. If you have already purchased a SMOT kit for yourself, I will refund your money. I will have photos of the finished SMOT kits available with-in a week. Now you wish to promote the SMOT kits is up to you, the better job you do, the more FREE SMOT kits you will receive. Other than my offer of 1 FREE SMOT kit per 5 orders I receive from your web site, there is NO other agreements between us. You are a FREE agent. Do with the FREE SMOT kits as you will. They are yours, NO strings attached. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Best Regards, Good Smoting to all, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 18:41:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA02881; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970601214157.0076b928 postoffice.ptd.net> X-Sender: revtec postoffice.ptd.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 21:41:57 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: jeff fink Subject: Watson vs Takahashi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"vtknW3.0.xi.cGYap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7730 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: If those interested in SMOT would look at page 51 in IE vol 1 no. 5,6 you will see that Takahashi's motor seems to run on the same principle (whatever that is). Whereas Watson uses gravity to slip the ball out the side of the field, Takahashi uses a momentary electromagnetic pulse to bridge the field. Any comments? Jeff Fink From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 19:16:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA07925; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706020213.WAA13916 mail.enter.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Robert G. Flower" Organization: Applied Science Associates To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 22:47:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Rich Murray's "Seventh Miley Critique" Reply-to: chronos enter.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Resent-Message-ID: <"O4Zw23.0.jx1.nnYap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7731 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 1 Jun 97 at 15:02, vortex-l eskimo.com wrote: > From: "Mike Carrell" > To: > Subject: Re: Rich Murray's "Seventh Miley Critique" > In his Seventh Miley Critique, Rich Murray finds dissatisfaction > with a Miley paper in certail details of data and presentation, > which he has distributed to vortex and 27 other correspondents, in > case they did not happen to see his comments on vortex. Actually, Rich Murray also broadcast his Seventh Miley Critique to the "public" (ie, sci.phycics.fusion) *twice* (according to DejaNews). Both postings include his attack on the "credibility of Infinite Energy." > Rich Murray was perhaps not aware that his attack on IE was > tantamount to a personal attack on Gene Mallove, to whom we all owe > considerable gratitude. In Murray's Addendum to his Seventh Miley Critique, he asks "Do you think my language was too 'caustic' " ? So his highly confrontational stance is surely intentional. I agree 110 percent with Mike Carrell that we all owe considerable gratitude to Gene Mallove for his efforts over many years. Best regards, Bob Flower ======================================================= Robert G. Flower, Applied Science Associates Quality Control Engineering Instrumentation Systems - Technology Transfer ======================================================= From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 19:43:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA07719; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:39:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:39:42 -0700 Message-ID: <339231E5.7AD6 microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 12:07:25 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com, mwm@aa.net Subject: Re: Last AND Least? References: <199706012311.SAA27431 natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vApSF3.0.Pu1.j9Zap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7732 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > At 07:10 AM 6/2/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: > > >Hi Scott, > > > >I thought your son was going to do the building? > > Jascha is a junior in college studying mechanical engineering and he's > becoming quite a capable fabricator. He did build the ramps and then I > studied the thing this weekend and tried to make some objective > determinations of its performance. > > I have considered going to a smaller ball, which would fit my magnets better > but, as I said before, the larger ball works better than the smaller > one...at least in the few trials I've done. They do work better, up to a point. > I need to get the magnet arrays tied down more securely and fixed so they > can be adjusted very finely. Thats important. I find adjustments in 0.5mm increments OK. > Greg, I am still in a state of disbelief concerning your original > close-the-loop claim. Tell me again what your closed-loop device does, please. > > Scott Little HI Scott, The RMOD Mark I drives a rotation 4mm steel shaft. The SMOT kits, will, depending on your adjustment skills (and these build quickly) : 1) Do a ball rollaway on the same level as the input rail. Ou for you or not? 2) Do a ball rollaround of 180 deg to back to the same distance. A upside down "J" return to the same distance as the start. Ou yet? 3) Do a ball rollaround of 2 x 180 to back to the entry of the 4 linked ramps 1 x upside down "J", 1 x "U". Some claim to have done this with just 2 ramps. This normally requires the 4 ramps to be placed on a board and the far end of the board elevated some what to gain additional KE. Still not Ou? 4) Do a loop through the whole system. OK, it must be Ou now, right? Best Regards, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 20:09:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA15531; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 20:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 20:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3392384F.622E skypoint.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 22:04:47 -0500 From: John Logajan Organization: Skypoint Communications, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: No steel strips yet - Barry's computatio References: <970601175740_72240.1256_EHB80-1 CompuServe.COM> <3391D593.1017@interlaced.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bTg5H2.0.Xo3.NWZap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7733 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Francis J. Stenger wrote: > My semi-functional, off-spec SMOT I described > earlier - is a good oscillator. With everything on a level board, the > large 1.5 inch dia. ball will oscillate the full length of the track, > to and fro with no elevation change. The ball, on a 12 mm wide track, > has fairly low rolling friction - no banging off the end of the rail, > etc. The decay in amplitude goes about like this: > > Time zero -------- initial amplitude about 150 mm > 0 + 20 seconds --- down to ~ half amplitude > 0 + 100 sec. ----- full stop - maybe 120 excursions or so. One might expect to see an improvement with magnets present as compared to magnets not present because, as Greg says, they provide some buoyancy and thus reduce rolling friction. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 20:12:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA15917; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 20:10:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 20:10:20 -0700 Message-ID: <33923A13.1163 skypoint.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 22:12:19 -0500 From: John Logajan Organization: Skypoint Communications, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT - residual magnetization References: <3397ca98.26448983 mail.eisa.net.au> from "Robin van Spaandonk" at May 31 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yDxjv1.0.Yu3.RcZap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7734 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > If I understand correctly, Barry has proposed this > magnetization differential between the starting condition and the ending > condition as the very reason the thing runs in the first place. Well, that > *does* make sense trivially, since the magnets must of course be able to > attract a ferromagnetic object and not see that attraction come up to a bad > value at the wrong moment. But doesn't the use of the materials mentioned > above completely undo the argument for the effect being the reason the SMOT > is not really overunity? If it keeps on running as long as the ball stays > unmagnetized, and the ball *doesn't* get magnetized, then...where are the > goalposts posted now? The moon? Reality has its own rules, so I'm not sure what to philosophically make of your goal posts. However, I think we've given falsifiable suggestions -- namely, if the device gets "tired", it's trying to tell us something. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 20:24:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA17293; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 20:14:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 20:14:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: josephnewman mail.earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 22:15:49 -0600 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Watson vs Takahashi Resent-Message-ID: <"gLHTf3.0.5E4.nfZap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7736 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >If those interested in SMOT would look at page 51 in IE vol 1 no. 5,6 you >will see that Takahashi's motor seems to run on the same principle >(whatever that is). Whereas Watson uses gravity to slip the ball out the >side of the field, Takahashi uses a momentary electromagnetic pulse to >bridge the field. Any comments? > > >Jeff Fink Dear Jeff, Takahashi's "momentary electromagnetic pulse" is not original to him. Ultimately, an answer to the question of the nature of these principles, will be found in a very explicit and fundamental understanding of the _mechanical_ nature of (electro)magnetic fields. Best regards, Evan Soule' josephnewman earthlink.net From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 20:25:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA18255; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 20:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 20:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33924ACA.3790 earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 21:23:38 -0700 From: Rich Murray Reply-To: rmforall earthlink.net Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mitchell Swartz , vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Seventh Miley Critique References: <3.0.32.19970601121651.00c9e96c world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2-syX3.0.9T4.clZap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7737 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Mitchell, Yes, I would very much like a copy of your paper. What do you think of Mallove's response to my Seventh Critique? I thought I had written in a far less passionate style than many of Rothwell's epistles, for example. I was astonished that my emphasis on the unknown complexity of the phonemena was taken as evidence that I was sarcastically rejecting the very reality or possibility of cold fusion. For instance, I am tentatively willing to accept the reports of Mizuno, Ohmori, and Dash, once their very simple experiments are independently replicated. But I haven't heard yet either about any attempts or successes by independent labs. Have you heard of any? Rich Murray From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 20:32:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA17065; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 20:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 20:12:36 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:10:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970601231054_487594191 emout18.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Watson vs Takahashi Resent-Message-ID: <"sZuLH2.0.XA4.MeZap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7735 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The thing that gets me about the Takahashi motor is, it was featured in popular science in 1980 (17 years ago) and To my knowledge it still has not be proven to be overunity. If I build a machine that is overunity, I hope in seventeen years I can show that it very simply puts out more energy than it takes to run it! I WOULD SIMPLY PUT IT ON DISPLAY, RUNNING FOR THE WHOLE WORLD TO SEE AND TEST! Any graduate engineer could tell if it was overunity or not. After all we put a MAN ON THE MOON AND BROUGHT HIM BACK, we can tell if a motor is overunity or not! The thing I like about Greg's device is it's self sustaining, the true proof of overunity. I don't think in 17 years we'll be sitting around wondering, is this thing overunity or not? God help us if we are. Once again, if I build an overunity device I'll prove it if I half to stuff it down everybody's throat while there kicking, and screaming! But the best test of overunity will be when you call the power company and say, come get your damm meter and stick it where the sun don't shine! Butch LaFonte From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 1 21:27:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA28650; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 21:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 21:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33925A10.112C earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 22:28:48 -0700 From: Rich Murray Reply-To: rmforall earthlink.net Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Eugene F. Mallove" <76570.2270 compuserve.com>, vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Seventh Miley Critique References: <970601121824_76570.2270_FHU35-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Zd_Fh.0.W_6.niaap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7738 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: June 1, 1997 Dear Gene, As two members of Vortex-L wrote today, we all, me included!, are very indebted to you for your enormous efforts, virtually singlehanded, to very effectively serve as probably the most well known public forum for detailed information about the struggling infant field of cold fusion and new energy in general. My critiques are just what is needed: detailed, tedious point by point and sentence by sentence examination, clarification, criticism, and question raising, including speculative suggestions. My language has been initially very peppy, provokative, and playful. I have tried in my Seventh Miley Critique to be a model of restraint. Oh well! Why don't you just cut out the offensive sentences and words, until you are satisfied that it can be published in Infinite Energy. Just post this edited version on Vortex-L. I will probably assent to all the editing, as long as most of the unspeakably dull detail work is left in. Let the readers of IE know that I will be glad to send them a longer, unedited version, e-mail or snail mail. This process would allow others to put in their two-cents worth about the editing. Wouldn't this amount to a public democratic peer review process? I, for one, will be very grateful to have my specific points dealt with, rather than suffer opprobrium and neglect because of presumed attitude or style. By cleaning out the dusty corners of our own collective house as a research community, we are more likely to disarm carpet fire-bombing raids by pathological critics, as well as deal with a few of our own actual errors, which otherwise will be trechently and perhaps too silently noted by the wider community of scientists. Rich Murray Room For All 1943 Otowi Drive Santa Fe, NM 87505 505-986-9103 rmforall earthlink.net From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 00:26:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA19202; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 00:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 00:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970602072346.00668cb4 sparc1> X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 16:23:46 +0900 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Elliot Kennel Subject: SIMS results Resent-Message-ID: <"hCeFu2.0.yh4.KLdap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7739 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Copyrighted information. Please ask permission before re-posting. Several researchers have reported isotopic shifts as well as anomalous material depositions on cold fusion cathodes used in electrolysis as well as plasma discharge experiments. Accordingly, I became curious about the appearance of a black sooty deposit on glow discharge cathodes. The NHE Lab plasma loading experiment is ostensibly very clean, as it can pull an oil-free vacuum of about 2 x 10^-7 Torr fairly routinely, and the gas has a miniscule impurity level (<<10^-5 for oxygen and other chemically active species). However, it's also known that hydrogen and deuterium are very reactive and thus it is suspected that it can participate in mass transport processes. Moreover, it is suggested that H and D can form metal hydride/deuterides which can falsify SIMS. For these reasons, we decided to investigate the electrode surfaces. Low-resolution SIMS showed that the material is mainly mass 12 and 13, suggesting carbon. However, the isotopic abundance showed about 10 times higher mass 13 than would be expected for naturally-occurring carbon. Subsequently, however, a high resolution SIMS analysis showed that the excess mass 13 was due to CH. At the surface, approximately 20% of the carbon was detected in the CH form, a surprisingly high amount. However, the copper ratio stayed constant throughout, with no anomalies detected within the precision of the experiment. Quadrupole mass spectroscopy of the gas used in the discharge shows that several heavy molecular species such as C-H_x, N-H_x and others exist in the discharge gas after a few minutes of operation. Thus, it seems that mass transport of carbon, and the appearance of outgassing hydrocarbons is a likely explanation for the appearance of soot on the discharge elecrodes. In addition, scanning electron micrographs show the buildup of soot-like particles on the smooth copper surface. In other words, what looks like soot optically also looks like soot with SEM and appears to be isotopically consistent with SOOT according to high-res SIMS, and the mechanism for depositing soot is shown via QMA. Thus, I'm inclined to conclude that it really is soot. There is no basis in this experiment to postulate a nuclear process. On the other hand, although the presence of hydrogen in the discharge was able to obscure the measurement of C-12 and C-13, no effect was observed which would be relevant to obscuring measurements of copper (i.e., copper isotope ratio was reliably measured without difficulty). Thus these results do not suggest any satisfactory explanation for the marked apparent isotope shift observed by Mizuno. CONCLUSION The results suggest that very clean plasma discharges can result in covering copper electrodes with a sooty deposition of C and CH. Under low resolution SIMS, this can appear to be an isotope shift, but high resolution SIMS shows no shift. Thus the mere appearance of carbon soot during plasma discharges does not in itself suggest a nuclear anomaly. The results do not provide a mechanism to explain the apparent copper isotope shift (Cu-63 without significant Cu-65) reported by Mizuno, as copper at least was unaffected by bombardment of hydrogen ions. This remains an apparent anomaly which defies simple explanation. FUTURE PLANS Palladium electrodes are currently being studied but the results are not yet available. They will be reported at a future date. Elliot Kennel NHE Laboratory Sapporo Japan From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 03:28:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA02823; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 03:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 03:24:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 00:23:00 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"Yc-Xu2.0.1i.qzfap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7740 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gnorts - A note on something I just noticed tonight. I had to do some work this evening, so I had little time for smotting. But when I was done working, I was idly playing with a couple of magnets and a horizontal piece of rail, holding the magnets at various angles and watching the ball go back and forth, trapped within the energy well bordered by the ends of the two magnets. Then I had a flash on the geometry of this whole thing. Look down at the shape made by 4 linked Watson ramps: / \ / \ / \ / \ Ok, now the question might occur, can good linking be achieved on a single horizontal section of rail, or must one section rise above the other to get linking? An answer came quickly from four of the large Radio Shack rectangular magnets, one SMOT ball and a length of horizontal track: Yes. It isn't even hard. I haven't yet linked two or more of Greg's ramps, but the way the ball goes through the multiple magnets on a straight horizontal rail looks like the Watson multi-ramp videos people have posted on their web sites. The ball speeds up and then slows down at the joints between magnets which correspond to the dropoffs on Greg's linked ramps. But it does keep going until it reaches the end. I made one little two stage (4 magnets total, two per side) ramp on an incline, and the ball dropped through the blue hole at the end just like a nice phase one Watson ramp. The significance of this is, there should be no limit on the length, and therefore altitude, that a single ramp made this way can achieve. Are we making this too hard? Is it true that all we really have to do is just make a single *long* ramp using sawtooth magnet arrays, and avoid the losses and complexity involved with multiple ramp sections with dropoffs? For once ASCII does a fairly decent job of representation. Look again at the little ramp diagram above. Now they're individual magnets on a flat board instead of entire arrays. Put your rail in the middle. Tilt the board up as much as you can but still have the ball make the climb and drop out a blue hole section at the end. Guide it back to the start somehow as a final step. And I'm sure some of the smarter smotters will realize the advantages this simpler geometry would have for the rotary versions you're secretly working on. ;) Is it really this easy, or will I look at this post in the morning as say, "duh, what *WAS* I thinking?" Oh well, I'm no stranger to embarrassing myself online. I'm going to hit "send" now and go to bed. Happy smotting. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 03:53:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA08353; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 03:48:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 03:48:47 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 02:46:53 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Watson vs Takahashi Resent-Message-ID: <"Ms2ds3.0.R22.EKgap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7741 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:10 PM 6/1/97, HLafonte aol.com wrote: [snip] >After all we put >a MAN ON THE MOON AND BROUGHT HIM BACK, ... [snip] >Butch LaFonte I had the impression Frank Stenger was the only one here who had direct "hands on" in that department. He was also involved in bringing back those who didn't quite make it "ON THE MOON," - the Apollo 13 crew. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 04:00:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA08852; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 03:58:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 03:58:07 -0700 Date: 02 Jun 97 06:56:34 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: New SMOTer & ramp Message-ID: <970602105633_100433.1541_BHG81-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"0dtl3.0.AA2.-Sgap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7742 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Mike, > To clarify, I have now also put a second Al track level, start > point under the S curve on the SMOT ramp. Height of this level > ramp = height of release point of ball. Ball rolls away, slowly. > I think that what this does show - is that the ball has > somehow acquired energy from the magnetic field > configuration/interaction. And can remove this energy from the > vicinity of the magnetic field configuration. It also gives > me a warm fuzzy feeling that I can couple ramps (that in progress > now with a 2nd ramp). Like being able to feel the blue hole. OK. I have to agree that this at least has the *smell* of OU. And your point about the rotational energy of the ball is relevant - I had forgotten that part. So ... the ball does mechanical work against friction, it absorbs eddy currents, it returns to its original height and rolls away from the magnetic field - to a higher magnetic potential. Gulp. Terry asks what "taking a day off" means. Just having a non-working day, that's all. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 04:00:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA08948; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 03:58:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 03:58:55 -0700 Message-ID: <3392A6E8.477B microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 20:26:40 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Closing, YES its finally here Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------23A55E286C32" Resent-Message-ID: <"juM-61.0.aB2.jTgap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7743 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------23A55E286C32 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, The attached GIF should say it all. I know there will be a thousand questions, but the basic one is, YES it works. Barry and others. Notice the ball is not always in the ramps field. The field 300mm away is quite small amd the ball is turning all the time due to how it rolls / half slides around the 300mm turns. In my setup, it takes about 1.5 to 2mm of differential height to get a good roll around. Experiment, discuss, build or just talk theory, but here it is. 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SJtTJtx2njc6D2Knydfjn63M7EIue3k/FnXcdNnKGaBNtkKZc6msYCZPOQPqp6K5aLRMqyI/ GxijRXtpU7hEno9CuHYDbWeLUabhSMM3hgs+4u2QmMNMC0+Im04vkXV33/9W+sFd2qEO7bus DoYav6hWdRKrqMOdTrj/ekBqXEcbbdP8Um3SWsYYE0k9awJnuqVBrOJPGffSZNcGvsOWaRGJ SOtLE7mJcab0vUQ96gi3+tMYmxgt2WzGWFOZ3OXeKoTfcrU7H/qkhcYSn5992ZWGe7PKdRI9 D3o9zOZ5z3U2TLvHF+IaWzfHuC2xhpeb5fR2b7wzVjjuVAddEwM5wxueuOdWd9qLx9i5J27t d5Ws4gNXF1wq7THqIM3fhF/54Bh+bcpX3vA8DpRxVjYprv1r7ZLD8OYuTXZ9Zartnf+5vdMe tU4Z/TFT+xjWQZcwzx084Fe/19NHrrq0txnkirb4eUqn97EU5nCR33h1GLxwiqlbcYuyWOVP /8w629/eug+3L84ktfHi4m713BV5hmQeMvL6LnGQPzniH+cg3Hcr2+qlneIn/nqLKKnCMt/z 8ZSPvLkFC/JwKsjxD8f8k/ocMM7D9PO/8jjJgnjqhFba5MeOV9JlXfr3AZh21F6ngW2O6daT HtqyxxSvfR984Q+f+MU3/vGRn3zlL5/5hGVxBm/LxXt+HJ6ez/NzRqjBJi/9wKOHM8uJ9W/m ihOP0gXioVFbRlyhH4rsTz/YIwRwRLv/0aryEQnHTbiAcxrW/aL569Gl6YyNhown9valpsYl 3sxPhtAN02zPYgYQ6R5mtLKt04zu037OvP5lA83riHhvAB8w13CIY/8IL7JIrc+W7eeejfa8 zZ+E7gK/DfYmLNewbffiCwNZsAMLbNl67QQXrfZ0rv9AywN5UAeHcAfZywePLgdv8IEqLyVA BPgsbN0ur/ms8ApTKfSw8G646+DWbQvtpr9yDwwDR1zSDoPIMA3VcA3ZsA3d8A3hMA7lcA7p sA7t8A7xMA+VTwvlrNviSQ+tZONiDu0YTO1UC/wAcWoCcL1qEPBabgW/MBGzw8Y0b+8cr3Ui Tu74UBJnp4SqkBNBMX3S7WWwp8u8bO+06yxC8fxW6lHk787CTQVrp8BWsd5qEAbxCQS3TdrY DcH4q/5q0bJwDRZ9ERcFsAW7TomUhtCCEZ4pig1vbLEZpXEaqbEarfEasTEbtXEbubEbvfEb wTEcxXEcybEczXGPAgIAOw== --------------23A55E286C32-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 04:26:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA11386; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 04:21:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 04:21:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3392AC39.379A microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 20:49:21 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Last AND Least? References: <199706011545.KAA05730 natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2heq13.0.hn2.hogap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7744 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > At 09:31 PM 6/1/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: > > >> 1. magnet dims: 7.5mm hi, 13mm long, 4mm thick > > 9.7mm hi, 13mm long, 4mm thick > > OUr magnets vary a bit from 7.5mm to nearly 8mm high. Greg, do you think > this might be a disabling change? Don't know, haven't tried such a large differential magnet height to ball diameter. > >> 5. alignment: ball center level with magnet center > > ball 1.5mm below magnet centre. > > I have experimented with shimming up the magnets briefly...didn't see any > significant change except that it seemed more likely to snap the ball over > to one of the magnets at the end of the ramp. That means that the ball is NOT on the magnetic centre line. This will cause increased side frictional losses. Probably also explains why you don't see a improvement when you lift the magnets above the ball's centre line. > > 6. Ramp: ? > > 90mm long, with polished rails. (Very little noise) > > The slanted part of our ramp is 90mm and the rails are nicely polished. We > also have a 20mm long level part at the foot of the ramp with a smooth bend > made as you suggested with a hacksaw cut. > > > 7. Back: ? > > 3x10x104mm Steel > > Ours are 3.5x8x106mm right now...they are 2mm longer than the magnets. > > > >> Greg, do you have to believe this thing will work before it does?.... > > >Once you get the ramp working, its very solid. > > One disadvantage we in the States have is a lack of Blu-Tak! My meager > supply was donated by Chris Tinsley some time ago. There is a shoddy > facsimile here called Handi-Tak that is yellow in color and very soft. It > is to Blu-Tak as mud is to concrete. Anyone in the Blu-Tak countries care > to trade for a couple of packs?...I can send Duct tape, Velcro, etc. Blu-Tak rules! > Scott Little Hi Scott, Sorry for the delay in answering, but my creditors wanted paid. Had to do some real work. Best Regards, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 04:36:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA06513; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 04:31:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 04:31:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3392973F.3D184CD3 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 13:49:51 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Re:Easy rogue SMOT??!! X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NLlTL1.0.gb1.xxgap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7745 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Rick, You found it!, In my Friday posting "My magnets sizes are same as Naudin's" I wrote: "By the[way] I found an other style to stack the magnets and it show very interesting effect on accelerating the ball. I will not to describe it at this moment for not disturbing the concentration of the team." This is it. I send the idea to Greg yesterday for he try himself. This is the part of this letter: My special stacking scheme (I am not using it) like this: N //////// S ====o===== S \\\\\\\\ N blocks are placed in parallel. zoom in: / \ / \ _______________ \ \ | S | \ \ |_______N______| \ \ ________________ ___ \ \ | S | / / \ \ |_______N_______| / / ___ \ \ ________________ /N S/ / / \ \ | S | / / / / ___ \ \ |_______N_______| / / /N S/ / / \ \ . /___/ / / / / \ \ . / / /N S/ \ \ . /___/ / / . \. . . \ / / . /___/ . (there is no space between adjacent magnets) Field generated is very asymmetric along the axis and carry the ball always in one direction (as the SMOT) But the effect is stronger and continue as you elongated the stacks. I have insufficient magnet quantity for a 40-50 cm long arrays to test the effect for OU anomaly. If you don't tried this before please do it and I ensure you that you will be impressed!. If the pull is continuous along the path it is possible to arrange magnets in circle and close the loop. I will name it "physics bugs" like the bugly programs hangs on infinte loops. Practical method to stack magnets this way is squeezing them diagonally in a U profiles. -------------< end of letter >------------ I am using 10x25x40 magnets. Yes, its work but as I stated in the letter I have not egough magmet to test it. Waiting positive results Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 05:05:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA15960; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 04:59:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 04:59:53 -0700 Message-ID: <3392AE51.752E microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 20:58:17 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg, Clarification, please! References: <3391E77E.1EB6 interlaced.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2LaiA.0.Ev3.sMhap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7746 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Francis J. Stenger wrote: > > Greg, some time ago you posted: > > > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > Sorry to say, but my patent attorney has pulled the plug. > > > > > What did you mean by this statement, Greg? Here in the US this would > mean that your attorney stopped action on your patent - can you > clarify?? > > Wondering, Frank Stenger Hi Frank, He pulled the plug on my keyboard and told me to STOP talking about the RMOD. Thats why I went back to the Hartman patent and developed the SMOT ramp and discussions to PROVE that magnetic based Ou is possible. On RMOD, I can't talk, but SMOT is public domain. Best Regards, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 05:12:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA09179; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 05:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 05:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3392B112.7018 microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 21:10:02 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT rollaway specs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"n7hmc1.0.LF2.iNhap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7747 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I find that to achieve a rollaway with my SMOT ramp design, I need a lift of around 18mm or about 1.5 ball diameters. You don't need to lift 4 ramps to do this. I can get around 16 with one ramp or 20mm with two. I believe others will be able to get the rollaround track to work with one ramp. If you can get a rollaway 1.5 to 2mm above the entry level on a single ramp then the rollaround design will work for you. So our goal is now : 1) Achieve a level rollaway 2mm above the entry height. 2) Build the "N" gauge rollaround setup and get a loop. Go for it. Best Results, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 05:28:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA12044; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 05:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 05:17:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lentin imaginet.fr From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Snowflake Memory Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com, jbenveni@LBN.org Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:16:13 +0000 Message-ID: <19970602121610.AAA8497 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"JQGO03.0.3y2.Tdhap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7748 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jean-Pierre: Between your work and the work of Jacques Benveniste on "water memory" is there a microprocessor that could evolve out of this? I have it that there are no two snowflakes exactly alike. Wouldn't that mean that if about a hundred water molecules out of the 3.346E22 water molecules in a cm^3 (gram) of water could be arranged by a signal, there could be something like 3.346E20 memory elements in that gram? :-) Is it possible that our brain cells are using this interaction with the water in our brains, and if we get dehydrated we become stupid? :-) Best Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 06:17:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA25773; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:16:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:16:57 -0700 Date: 02 Jun 97 09:14:59 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Message-ID: <970602131459_76016.2701_JHC80-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"fdwbI3.0.dI6.8Viap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7750 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick said: >>Then I had a flash on the geometry of this whole thing.<< Isn't this similar to the original Hartman patented geometry? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 06:18:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA18486; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:17:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:17:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Tstolper aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:13:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970602091307_317154243 emout03.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Boyle's Vacuum Resent-Message-ID: <"o7ndO.0.mW4.VViap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7749 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bart, In your post of May 23, you said that Robert Boyle's difficulties in convincing people that his air pump could produce a vacuum was considered a classic case in the sociology of science. I hadn't heard about that one before. Could you supply a couple of references? I thought that the existence of a vacuum had been convincingly and publicly demonstrated in Germany in 1657 when two teams of horses couldn't pull two hemispheres apart after the air they had enclosed was pumped out. But of course ABC-TV wasn't there to cover the event. Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 07:03:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA23678; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:59:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Boyle's Vacuum Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:57:44 +0000 Message-ID: <19970602135742.AAA16026 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"ImfVG2.0.un5.c6jap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7751 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 01:13 PM 6/2/97 +0000, Tom Stolper wrote: >Bart, > >In your post of May 23, you said that Robert Boyle's difficulties in >convincing people that his air pump could produce a vacuum was considered a >classic case in the sociology of science. I hadn't heard about that one >before. Could you supply a couple of references? > >I thought that the existence of a vacuum had been convincingly and publicly >demonstrated in Germany in 1657 when two teams of horses couldn't pull two >hemispheres apart after the air they had enclosed was pumped out. But of >course ABC-TV wasn't there to cover the event. > >Tom Stolper > AaaH, but CBS was there. Back a few years CBS aired a program; "CBS Was There". didn't you watch it? :-) Might have got beaten out by the "Time Tunnel" program though. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 07:57:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA07446; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 07:54:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 07:54:31 -0700 Date: 02 Jun 97 10:51:35 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Blu-Tack Message-ID: <970602145135_100433.1541_BHG131-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"wIee2.0.Cq1.cwjap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7752 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gnorts, all, I've just sent Scott two packs of Blu-Tack [sic]. Bostik (US) are supposed to sell Blu-Tack. They are in Middleton, Mass, and their phone number is 508-777-0100. Perhaps one of our American friends could hassle them about the quality of their salesmanship. Tell 'em nobody can do science without the stuff. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 08:02:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA08335; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 07:58:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 07:58:46 -0700 Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 07:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706021458.HAA26198 germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"crfN_3.0.922.b-jap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7753 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Rick, Interesting design! I'll try it. What was the spacing betwn the magnets and the angle you found that worked? Ball, magnet and ramp size? Thanks in advance, Michael From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 09:01:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA21408; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:53:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:53:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199706021553.IAA24820 popmail.UCSD.EDU> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Bart Simon" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:55:42 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Boyle's Vacuum Reply-to: bssimon helix.ucsd.edu Priority: normal In-reply-to: <970602091307_317154243 emout03.mail.aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"efQvX1.0.ME5.Jokap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7754 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom (and other history buffs), > In your post of May 23, you said that Robert Boyle's difficulties in > convincing people that his air pump could produce a vacuum was considered a > classic case in the sociology of science. I hadn't heard about that one > before. Could you supply a couple of references? The main reference here is Steve Shapin and Simon Schaffer (1985), "Leviathan and the Air-Pump: Hobbes, Boyle and the Experimental Life", Princeton: Princeton U. Press. See especially chapter 4. The protagonists here are Robert Boyle and his Gresham college buddies against none other than Thomas Hobbes who, while not remembered as being a scientist, was a big natural philosophical cheese in the 1660's when this was going down (plus he had a lot of pull with the King). The debate revolved around whether Boyle was really producing a vacuum in his air-pumps, and its got all the fixin's of a great story - what is a vacuum? how do you know when you have a working air-pump? how do you demonstrate that the air-pump is working? How do you convince the skeptics? etc.., etc.. I won't tell you how Boyle pulled it off in the end, but its a story worth reading for CF folks because there's more to making knowledge than just making a good experiment. cheers, Bart ============================================ Bart Simon Dept. of Sociology/Science Studies-0533 University of California at San Diego (UCSD) 9500 Gilman Dr. La Jolla, CA, 92093-0533 phone: 619-534-0491/fax: 619-534-3388 =========================================== From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 09:08:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA22544; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:56:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:56:55 -0700 Message-ID: <3392ED70.374A interlaced.net> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 11:57:36 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1E08M.0.9W5.5rkap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7755 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Gnorts - > (snip) Look down at the shape made by 4 linked Watson ramps: > > / \ > / \ > / \ > / \ > > Ok, now the question might occur, can good linking be achieved on a single > horizontal section of rail, or must one section rise above the other to get > linking? An answer came quickly from four of the large Radio Shack > rectangular magnets, one SMOT ball and a length of horizontal track: Yes. Hey Rick, and others - get these ideas pinned down as IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN, IF NOT SUBJECT TO PREVIOUS PATENT ACTION!! If valid, they obviously lead to a neat rotary version using a rotor on a shaft! Man, I can't believe I'm pushing an OU MAGIC MAGNET MOTOR!!! Screw tht ramp! Full steam ahead!!! Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 09:19:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA13051; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:11:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:11:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:10:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706021610.LAA29513 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com, Vortex From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Blu-Tack Resent-Message-ID: <"44Zik3.0.pB3.n2lap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7756 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 10:51 6/2/97 EDT, Chris Tinsley wrote: >Gnorts, all, > >I've just sent Scott two packs of Blu-Tack [sic]. Oh Boy! Thanks tons, Chris. What would we colonists do without continued support from the mother country? >Bostik (US) are supposed to sell Blu-Tack. They are in Middleton, >Mass, and their phone number is 508-777-0100. I'm on it. Thanks a lot. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 09:45:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA32283; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:40:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:40:42 -0700 Date: 02 Jun 97 12:38:39 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Re: Blu-Tack Message-ID: <970602163839_100433.1541_BHG70-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"WtsKG2.0.Lu7.9Ulap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7757 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott, > Oh Boy! Thanks tons, Chris. What would we colonists do without > continued support from the mother country? Soo points out that the enclosed letter states her terms - in this case a packet of *peanut-butter* [sic] M&Ms. She also wishes to know if you really are a 6'9" gorgeous hunk of Texan manhood... Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 10:15:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA25151; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970602101104.00b0fbf0 mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 10:11:11 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: ferro fluid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"281zO3.0.s86.qwlap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7758 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I am using one of the toy glass "magic marbles" filled with iron powder. The "magic marbles" need to have the colorful (or glow in the dark) liquid poured out of them and replaced with fine mesh iron powder. Works very well with SMOT. At 12:34 PM 6/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >SAM GORDON wrote: >> >> Has anyone tried ferro fluid in a glass ball yet?? > > >I had suggested using a ferrofluid filled tube a while back. Sort of >like a magnetic pump..... > >Greg didn't seem to think it would work well because the magnetic >particles are very small. The ramps seem to need a large ferrous mass >to create the proper magnetic differentail. > >Dave DeLeo >ddeleo ix.netcom.com > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 10:29:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA26573; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:19:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:19:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Blu-Tack Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:18:05 +0000 Message-ID: <19970602171803.AAA24216 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"DWSu53.0.5V6.b2map" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7759 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:38 PM 6/2/97 +0000, Chris wrote: >Scott, > > > Oh Boy! Thanks tons, Chris. What would we colonists do without > > continued support from the mother country? > >Soo points out that the enclosed letter states her terms - in this case >a packet of *peanut-butter* [sic] M&Ms. > >She also wishes to know if you really are a 6'9" gorgeous hunk of Texan >manhood... > >Chris > Let me as a neighbor to Texas, state to Soo that the 6' 9" is a horizontal dimension. :-) The vertical is about half that. Haven't you heard of the proliferatiom of windmills in Texas? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 10:31:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA27891; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 01:21:20 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970603012529.33f72054 po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8 po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mpower Subject: Re: Job at Galtek Cc: Hank Scudder Resent-Message-ID: <"X45pG3.0.cp6.o8map" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7760 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hank Scudder posted the following (edited for brevity) at 21:33 1996.10.07 -0700: >William Beaty wrote: >> >> On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Scudder,Henry J wrote: >> >> > Mark, Vortexans >> > What about the possibility that the energy is coming >> > from the reduction of the stored permanent magnetic energy. >> > in the pole pieces and armature? Has anyone run the numbers? > >> >> This suggests that a small magnet, even if extremely strong, is a >> flea-power energy storage device. A tiny battery trounces it. >> >> .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. >> William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 >> EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ >> Seattle, WA 98117 billb eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page >Bill > One of the methods which has been used to mechanically actuate low cost >artillery shells has been the impact destruction of a ceramic magnet >wrapped by a large number of turns of thin wire, which generates a >high enough voltage to detonate the explosive in the shell. Very >reliable, simple, cheap. > >Hank Scudder Old question: do you know how the voltage was used ? In other words, was it coupled to something like a blasting detonator or was the voltage used directly on the explosive as some sort of 'spark shock' system ? ********************************************************** * http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 ******** ********************************************************** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 10:43:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA28196; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:27:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:27:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: 02 Jun 97 13:24:01 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: It's all a matter of context Message-ID: <970602172401_72240.1256_EHB45-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"28frr.0.Uu6.u9map" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7761 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex Rich Murray wrote a series of critiques of the Miley papers. Miley, Mallove and I glanced at these critiques and tossed them aside, because we felt the tone of writing is beyond the pale. We have seen too much ranting and raving by "skeptics" to take this sort of thing seriously. Miley says there is some technical merit to some of the minor points Murray raises, but by and large Murray does not understand the experiment and he does not understand spectral analysis. I myself cannot judge; the technical issues are over my head. I pointed out some gross errors in his earlier critiques regarding aspects of the work I do understand. He never responded, so I wrote him off. Gene is not inclined to publish the critique, but I have recommended he do so, if Miley can spare us a few hours to write a rebuttal. Of course it is Gene's decision. I do not feel strongly about it one way or the other. I have no compunction about denying the "skeptics" a voice in our magazine. It is a free country, they can publish their own magazine. They can publish in "Nature" or "New Scientist." If their claims are even half-right, these people could win Nobel Prizes for proving that calorimetry does not work. Murray made a comment which I think reflects a certain lack of sophistication. I think he does not appreciate the importance of context, and the fact that writing can serve different purposes is different circumstances: What do you think of Mallove's response to my Seventh Critique? I thought I had written in a far less passionate style than many of Rothwell's epistles, for example. I wonder which epistles he has in mind. I have published technical articles and opinion pieces in Infinite Energy. I have translated, edited and contributed bits and pieces to papers in other journals, including Fusion Technology. If Murray reviews my formal, published technical papers, I am confident he will not find any example of the kind of sarcasm and childish insults in his Critiques. For example, I would never write anything like this: Similarly misleading curves were offered in Miley's Second Preprint, summarizing experimental runs with six kinds of beads. So, naturally, like the pedantic Talmudic scholar I am in some bygone lifetime, I checked out the various graphs in Second Preprint. Viola! On page 10, Figure 4, Production Rate for palladium Run #11, what do I find-- dare you guess!-- but the very same collection of data points and precisely the same gratiously added curve . . . I would never write that in a formal paper, or in a letter to a scientist which I hope the fellow will read and take seriously. On the other hand, if I am dashing off a note on Internet, or writing a private letter to Chris Tinsley, or gabbing over beer and barbeque on a Saturday afternoon, I can probably be a lot nastier than Murray. If Murray expects a distinguished, senior professor like Miley to read his paper and take it seriously, he should never have included any language like this. On the other hand if he is sure his claims are correct, he does not care what Miley thinks, and he thinks Miley is a buffoon, then he should use any style he likes. Miley doesn't care! I don't care. I think Frank Close is a buffoon. I would never write him a serious letter asking him to explicate his theory about "deep electron bonds" that allow chemical reactions to store 100 megajoules in a gram of metal. I assume he does not believe a word of that, and he uses that argument to confuse the issue and deceive gullible science writers. Perhaps Murray thinks that's what Miley is up to. It is all a matter of social context. Perhaps I am more sensitive this issue than most Occidental people. I may be more willing to change my tone quickly because of my long exposure to the Japanese language. In Japanese, grammar must be adjusted to reflect fine gradations of social context in two dimensions: familiarity and politeness (or insult, at the opposite extreme.) You cannot say anything without first gauging your audience, and deciding where they stand in the social hierarchy compared to you. In English, you can hear a shift in tone and choice of words when an office worker talks to co-workers versus his boss or the chairman of the board. The changes are not as explicit as they are Japanese, and they are not grammatical, but they can be heard. Any novelist or screenplay writer will catch them. Some Occidentals, Americans in particular, who are first exposed to explicit social markers in grammar regard it as hypocritical, or artificial, or "feudalistic." Some observers say the Japanese lack absolute moral standards. Right and wrong depends on context, and ethics change overnight. I think this is incorrect. Americans get that impression because they must struggle to follow the grammar and keep track of who is insulting whom, in swiftly changing social context. They think the native speakers are also struggling to keep track. I suppose Japanese speakers might get the idea that we are obsessed with keeping track of number (singular or plural), and the French must wrack their brains trying to remember the gender of every noun. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 11:32:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA07452; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:27:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:27:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: 02 Jun 97 14:24:04 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: On the ropes? No surrender! Message-ID: <970602182404_100433.1541_BHG88-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"Ac0T43.0.Iq1.M2nap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7762 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gnorts, vorts, Well ... I refuse to surrender ... yet. But I have to admit I'm weakening. We made a three-ramp SMOT, and the fact is that the ball runs up the first ramp, then comes to a momentary halt at the start of the second. It then runs up the second ramp, and again comes to a momentary halt at the start of the third - before taking off up the third one. We are not as yet trying for lift between ramps, but in fact we know that there is a tiny slope in the floor. And the ball is going up that slope... Anyone, seeing this little bugger go, would have to be insane if he did not decide to continue and see the thing through. On the other hand, I had no luck with my brief effort to get a result the Ucar/Monteverde configuration. I'm willing to accept that I may have just got it wrong, though. Like, it's totally weird watching it work. I am NOT saying it is an anomaly, but it sure as hell looks like one. But I should warn anyone: this is a fiddly thing to get working. It all takes time and minor blind alleys, many of which can be avoided by doing what we all hate - reading the instructions. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 12:03:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA28886; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:59:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:59:51 -0700 Date: 02 Jun 97 14:31:40 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Steel strips help Message-ID: <970602183139_72240.1256_EHB78-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"zsJuD2.0.G37.dWnap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7763 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex I cut some steel strips out of hanging file folder and attached them to the magnets in my Kwick-Smot. That smooths out the cogging. I made some other improvements and I am now able to duplicate the behavior of Terry Blanton's device, that I observed in his office. However, I am still not convinced this is any indication of over-unity behavior. I don't have the right tools or manual skills to make a real replication. Several highly qualified people are hard at work on quality replications, so I think I'll learn some more lessons with what I have, and let these other people decide the issue for now. As I said, I am not convinced by the Blanton configuration because at the end of the ruler, the bead falls 14 mm, which is more than it climbs. It bounces off in a random direction. I can now make it bounce away from the ruler most of the time. I sense, but I cannot prove, that it may be inclined to go farther past the end of the magnets than it would on a continuing track. On a level or slightly inclined track, the ball will shoot 8 mm past end of the last magnet before falling back and oscillating. On a shortened track, even with an inclination, it bounces down about 1 cm past the end to the track and keeps rolling another 10 or 20 cm. To test what is really going on, I guess I would need a 3 mm incline and continued track 3 mm below the end of the rail. I could compare the performance of this with the level track. I am not sure this is a fair test. The 2 or 3 ramp system is a far better test, and Chris is seeing exciting results with it. Chris says he can "feel the blue hole." That is the spot near the end of the magnet array where the field strength anomalously drops off. You want to end the track right before that spot. I have not noticed a hole while slowly moving a bead or other steel object through the field. Other field variations, like the cogging, were readily apparent. Perhaps I don't have a blue hole? I once played with swinging a pendulum through magnetic fields. It is fascinating to watch. I wonder if I can detect a blue hole with this method, or perhaps with iron filings? Terry Blanton wrote: The ball starts with virtually zero momentum in the horizontal plane. Properly adjusted, the ball exits the device with significant momentum in the horizontal plane after rising several mm. I have torn it down and rebuilt it many times. I have confirmed the impact surfaces are level. You can drop a steel ball from many miles and as long as it falls vertically and is internally homogeneous, striking a rigid, horizontal surface will not impart horizontal momentum. Perhaps this steel ball test would work under ideal conditions, but when you drop ball bearings onto a wooden desk, they go off in random directions. I placed the balls quietly on a two desk surfaces to find areas that are level enough to prevent them from rolling. Then, holding them in a pair of pliers, I dropped them from heights of 1 to 10 cm. They skitter around at random. I also removed the magnets from the ruler and gently nudged balls off the end. The 13 mm drop and the spin imparted by going over the edge makes them roll around. They usually go 8 to 10 cm away from the end of the ruler, which is about the same distance and direction they go when the magnets are in place. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 12:38:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA00094; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:18:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:18:28 -0700 Date: 02 Jun 97 15:16:37 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: One the ropes - details Message-ID: <970602191637_100433.1541_BHG98-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"0RBW_3.0.I1.2onap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7764 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I should have posted details: Magnets 40*10*4mm, notched so that they can be cracked in half. These seem much weaker per unit volume than my former ferrite magnets. Stacked in four layers, to give a magnet 100*10*16mm, backed with 100*10*4mm iron strip. Ball 12.5-13mm, track 13mm wide outside but only 10mm deep. Ramp (sloped section) 86mm. People may be interested to know that the magnets come from Shaws of Sheffield in Yorkshire. This company was founded in 1783 [sic] as Hannah Shaw and Son, and they have always been a magnet company. An early advertisement is on their wall, showing that the company sold magnets for removing iron from molten brass and other fluids, and supplied "magneto-electric machines" - clearly electromagnets. I am mildly surprised that Hannah and her son were able to make a living selling magnets as early as 1783. The main problem I'm having is that I am NOT getting lift such that the magnet size (10mm) is 75% of the lift. I'm getting quite a lot less, and I'm not sure why. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 12:43:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA15118; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:26:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:26:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:23:28 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re:Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"7JrQq1.0.8i3.Gvnap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7765 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 1:49 PM 6/2/97, Hamdi Ucar wrote: [snip] > > > / \ > / \ _______________ > \ \ | S | > \ \ |_______N______| > \ \ ________________ > ___ \ \ | S | > / / \ \ |_______N_______| > / / ___ \ \ ________________ > /N S/ / / \ \ | S | > / / / / ___ \ \ |_______N_______| > / / /N S/ / / \ \ . >/___/ / / / / \ \ . > / / /N S/ \ \ . > /___/ / / . \. . . \ > / / . > /___/ . > >(there is no space between adjacent magnets) > [snip] >Regards, > >Hamdi Ucar Note - the above is very similar to an idea in the popular press a few months ago I believe. I don't recall the particulars, but believe the inventor of the similar idea, as applied to a rotary motor, is the father of a famous (in Japan) Japanese singer. It was a rotary motor with only one set of magnets around the periphery, not two as above. I think the "ball" was a magnet (or multiple spaced magnets) mounted on a rotor. The inventor said the key was getting the angles of all the magnets right. It would be interesting to see if there is longitdinal force, a force in the direction of the track, between the two magnet sets above. If so, there is maybe no need for the ball to get a rotory design. Simply make one set of magnets the armature, the other the stator, and let them go. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 13:20:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA13926; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:14:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:14:46 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970602083336.006e73fc world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (32) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 08:33:39 +0000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Snowflake Memory Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"lHiER.0.RP3.qcoap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7766 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I have it that there are no two snowflakes exactly alike. .... who really looked at all of them? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 13:20:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA15029; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:17:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:17:50 -0700 Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:34:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706021934.OAA20207 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com, Vortex From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Blu-Tack Resent-Message-ID: <"n6eQh.0.jg3.ifoap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7767 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 12:38 6/2/97 EDT, Chris Tinsley wrote: >Soo points out that the enclosed letter states her terms - in this case >a packet of *peanut-butter* [sic] M&Ms. A done deal! Better send me your smail address once again, please. >She also wishes to know if you really are a 6'9" gorgeous hunk of Texan >manhood... Certain parts of that description are inarguably true!...the 'gorgeous hunk' part is a total fabrication. Shame on you, Chris! Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 13:44:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA23792; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:41:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:41:54 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199706021458.HAA26198 germany.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:40:31 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"V2bvg2.0.ep5.G0pap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7769 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael - > Interesting design! I'll try it. What > was the spacing betwn the magnets and the > angle you found that worked? Ball, magnet > and ramp size? Here's some detail. I was playing around with a pair of larger magnets and a special low friction rail. The rail here is important, as I was not able this morning do get a good replication of my own results using the coarser aluminum channel I have been using for the regular SMOTs. But I did see this work last night. It's a small thin brass rail with very sharp rolling edges. Ball was about 8mm. I had just polished the rail very smooth before playing with it. I was bouncing the ball back and forth between magnetic walls as I said in the other post. But since the rolling friction was now so low, I could place the magnets much further away from the rail and still the ball would react well. I noticed that as I widened the spacing between the two magnets on either side of the rail, the limit to to balls range of travel began to extend well out beyond a line marking the ends of the magnets. You see this briefly with magnets close in on your ramps when a ball tries to overshoot a ramp you've got too tight, and the ball lunges out and snaps back behind the wall. But here it was lazy and slow and it began to move surprisingly far beyond the usual limit. This made me think "link". There was quite a gap in the linear arrangement of the first attempt. The gap between two adjacent magnets was probably about an inch, maybe a bit less. The ball linked through the first try with this half-array setup. I tried it with 4 magnets (2 pair opposed NS as usual) and it worked again. Tilted the ramp up slightly, and it still worked. I even thought I saw a two magnet rollaway on a horizontal run, but that's pretty weak - I was definitely in flea-flick territory, and the slightest finger momentum left on the ball might have carried it through such a delicate set of forces. That's my worry: when you go to low friction and small forces, noise and error begin to loom large. I'm not completely convinced this ramp arrangement really works yet. Hamdi says his similar arrangement does work. That's a positive note, but I still think this all needs to be checked with a long run of carefully arranged magnets as Hami suggests. As for it being the same as the Hartman ramp Terry, no - the Hartman ramp has a built in convergence in the field. This design *supposedly* has no convergence, so you don't run out of ramp with magnets converging to a point. I really can't understand how this can work. I did see it, but it could be error where I really had some slight convergence of field with my magnets that I didn't notice. Maybe Greg's design does work because of the repeated re-gauging from the frequent blue hole drops. Maybe if you don't hit several of those along your circuit, you don't get OU. Needs work, IMHO. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 13:45:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA23701; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:41:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:41:34 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3392ED70.374A interlaced.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:40:14 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"pQDUY3.0.8o5.z_oap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7768 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frank - I think we need to be very careful, these things are very interesting and even compelling, but until we've got the thing spinning for hours on our workbenches, we might not be any closer than anyone else ever was. They've never worked before, AFAIK. The sawtooth arrangement I described only worked under somewhat special conditions which I've described to Michael, and may not really be valid for a long ramp with a non-converging field. We might really need that convergence, as well as Greg's blue holes for regauging to achieve real OU. I'm still going to build a Kosher style Watson SMOT before I get too carried away here. It is fun though, huh? More fun than kitchen remodeling, I bet! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 13:59:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA27185; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:52:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:52:08 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970602131459_76016.2701_JHC80-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:50:51 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"Iwjhd.0.he6.s9pap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7770 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry - > Isn't this similar to the original > Hartman patented geometry? Similar, but the Hartman rig has convergence along the array. This sawtooth stuff doesn't. I've seen these sawtooth arrays in patents though. Can't remember which ones, I'm sure it's among the ones we've discussed here. Thing is, I know I've seen it before. And I still have doubts about it really being valid over long runs. Maybe it only works with the magnets further away from the rails, and the close in versions have the magnetic walls too steep. That's what I saw this morning when I tried it with aluminum rails requiring closer magnets to propel the ball. No linking. Maybe a steel back-rail would help with this, I haven't tried that yet. Blue holes may be the source of the magic. Continuous linking is definitely necessary so the ball or rotor or whatever never gets caught behind a wall. Can you have continuous linking without eventual array convergence or blue hole drop-through regauging? I think that's what it comes down to. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 14:05:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA29198; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:58:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:58:30 -0700 Date: 02 Jun 97 16:56:11 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Steel strips help Message-ID: <970602205611_76016.2701_JHC121-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"y6wwU2.0.887.rFpap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7771 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed said: >>Perhaps this steel ball test would work under ideal conditions, but when you drop ball bearings onto a wooden desk, they go off in random directions.<< Note that I said "rigid" surface. The Young's modulus of wood does vary in the xy plane due to the grain of the wood. I use a ceramic tile for the impact surface. Congratulations on achieving roll away. The news from Notingham is interesting, innit? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 14:21:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA17892; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:05:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:05:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:03:02 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Sorry Hamdi Resent-Message-ID: <"8P85H1.0.QN4.yLpap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7772 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hamdi - Sorry about mispelling your name. It's not one I'm used to seeing in print - won't happen again (unless it's a typo I missed). Have you aligned the sawtooth array against a straightedge so you know there's no convergence in the array and it still works? The only way I've been able to get it to work is with some separation between the adjacent magnets, and even then I'm not absolutely sure of what I'm seeing. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 14:33:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA02924; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:30:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:30:17 -0700 Date: 02 Jun 97 17:27:58 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Blu-Tack Message-ID: <970602212757_100433.1541_BHG66-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"nLZTE1.0.cj.ejpap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7773 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott, > Better send me your smail address once again, please. 127 Wollaton Vale, Nottingham NG8 2PE, UK. Tel/fax +44-115-925-4308 > Certain parts of that description are inarguably true!...the > 'gorgeous hunk' part is a total fabrication. Shame on you, Chris! Nothing I said - pure wishful thinking on her part. It also has to be said that she is highly skilled at making SMOT ramps work. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 14:52:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA22092; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33933BFB.176F microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 07:02:43 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: On the ropes? No surrender! References: <970602182404_100433.1541_BHG88-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ez1oq1.0.qO5.Xopap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7774 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > Gnorts, vorts, > > Well ... I refuse to surrender ... yet. But I have to admit I'm > weakening. > > We made a three-ramp SMOT, and the fact is that the ball runs up the > first ramp, then comes to a momentary halt at the start of the second. > It then runs up the second ramp, and again comes to a momentary halt > at the start of the third - before taking off up the third one. > > We are not as yet trying for lift between ramps, but in fact we know > that there is a tiny slope in the floor. And the ball is going up > that slope... > > Anyone, seeing this little bugger go, would have to be insane if he > did not decide to continue and see the thing through. > > On the other hand, I had no luck with my brief effort to get a result > the Ucar/Monteverde configuration. I'm willing to accept that I may > have just got it wrong, though. > > Like, it's totally weird watching it work. I am NOT saying it is an > anomaly, but it sure as hell looks like one. > > But I should warn anyone: this is a fiddly thing to get working. It all > takes time and minor blind alleys, many of which can be avoided by > doing what we all hate - reading the instructions. > > Chris Hi Chris, That the ball stops makes me believe you are not using the "S" curves. They will really make a lot of difference as they allow the ball to keep rolling. I believe most of the energy is in the rotation of the ball. The 3mm radius on the top edge of the exit also makes the exit adjustment much easier and softer. Glad to hear of your success. I can still remember the tingles running up and down my back when my first ramp worked. My brain then split in two. One side KNOWING what the final outcome would be, the other refusing to believe what my eyes had seen. For weeks after, I looked for where and how I had got it wrong. I STILL am a sceptic. Maybe I am too used to living in pollution. Anyway, congrats. Now, achieve a 1.5 to 2mm level rollaway and then build the track. Best Regards, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 14:52:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA22173; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:36:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:36:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: 02 Jun 97 17:27:56 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Steel strips help Message-ID: <970602212755_100433.1541_BHG66-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"NUJPq1.0.MQ5.-opap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7775 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jed, > I wonder if I can detect a blue hole with this method, or perhaps > with iron filings? Soo devised a method using a pin, held lightly between the fingers, which can be moved along/above/inside the track to feel the fields. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 15:04:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA24836; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:53:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:53:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3393402E.BA3 microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 07:20:38 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: One the ropes - details References: <970602191637_100433.1541_BHG98-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Rm0PD3.0.-36.F3qap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7776 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > I should have posted details: > > Magnets 40*10*4mm, notched so that they can be cracked in half. These seem much > weaker per unit volume than my former ferrite magnets. > Stacked in four layers, to give a magnet 100*10*16mm, backed with > 100*10*4mm iron strip. > > Ball 12.5-13mm, track 13mm wide outside but only 10mm deep. Ramp > (sloped section) 86mm. > > People may be interested to know that the magnets come from Shaws of > Sheffield in Yorkshire. This company was founded in 1783 [sic] as > Hannah Shaw and Son, and they have always been a magnet company. An > early advertisement is on their wall, showing that the company sold > magnets for removing iron from molten brass and other fluids, and > supplied "magneto-electric machines" - clearly electromagnets. > > I am mildly surprised that Hannah and her son were able to make a living > selling magnets as early as 1783. > > The main problem I'm having is that I am NOT getting lift such that > the magnet size (10mm) is 75% of the lift. I'm getting quite a lot > less, and I'm not sure why. > > Chris HI Chris, Qhwn I build up a mag array, as a final check, I run a magnet in opposition along the array to make sure I got all the individual magnets aligned alright. The opposing magnet and the fingers are a good combination for finding weak spots along the array. Are you using "S" exits? They help to get about 25% better height at the same magnet settings. Best Regards, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 15:45:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA18083; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 15:40:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 15:40:45 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:38:35 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"TsFCQ.0.TQ4.ilqap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7777 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:40 AM 6/2/97, Rick Monteverde wrote: [snip] >As for it being >the same as the Hartman ramp Terry, no - the Hartman ramp has a built in >convergence in the field. [snip] >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI This is not necessarily true, is it? A convergent field is only one embodyment of Hartman's. It is only necessary that the drop be placed at a height/distance reached by the ball. Hartman does describe how the drop (escape) of the ball can be facilitated by configuring the field at the end of the ramp to lift and disperse. Seems like all that does is put a "hole" in the field there. As I mentioned earlier, that same "lift and disperse" can be turned on its side to achieve a rotatry equivalent. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 16:14:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA23332; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 16:02:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 16:02:04 -0700 Message-ID: <33935103.5FE7 interlaced.net> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 19:02:27 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rgyGl1.0.Ri5.h3rap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7778 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Frank - > > I think we need to be very careful, these things are very interesting and > even compelling, but until we've got the thing spinning for hours on our > workbenches, we might not be any closer than anyone else ever was. They've > never worked before, AFAIK. > I agree Rick! This evening I set up one of your sawtooth rogues with 12 magnets which I think are identical to yours. (Radio Shack?) I had 6 magnets on each side of my 12 mm Al rail and my 1.5 inch steel ball. The magnets were "piggy-back" with about 1/4 inch overlap. With the rail dead level I noticed the following: (Note, this was a tight packing with the magnets in contact and the inside corner of the magnets clearing the ball only by about 1/8 inch.) 1. The ball would enter from a dead stop and move through 5 null points (blue holes?). 2. The ball would NOT exit but bounced off the sixth null and oscillated a while - finally captured in one of the nulls. 3. The BALL WOULD NOT START FROM AN INTERIOR NULL POINT! If I slowly pushed it past a null point, it would settle into the next one. 4. So, the ball DID traverse to the end IF started in the fringe field at EITHER END of the array. (from a stop!) I get the feeling that if I had a big circle of these sawtooth configured magnets that THE BALL WOULD NOT CONTINUE TO TRAVERSE. Linkers of SMOT ramps might try to start the balls from an INTERIOR ramp. It would be interesting to know if the ball would start from such a point! Of course, if an elevation gain is confirmed, I can't see why a roll-a-round would not close the loop. BUT, IT STILL DRIVES ME CRAZY!! I agree that it is MOST IMPORTANT to try to replicate Greg's results. If he's right, then we need to REMODEL physics! Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 16:23:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA25832; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 16:16:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 16:16:16 -0700 Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:16:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert I. Eachus" Message-Id: <199706022316.TAA04669 spectre.mitre.org> To: vortex-l eskimo.com In-reply-to: <970531213722_100433.1541_BHG66-2 CompuServe.COM> (message from Chris Tinsley on 31 May 97 17:37:23 EDT) Subject: Re: Smot thoughts Resent-Message-ID: <"u6z772.0.YJ6._Grap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7779 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Cris Tinsley (100433.1541 CompuServe.COM) said: > The history is interesting. Helmholtz, a medic, proposed the Principle > of Energy Conservation in the 1840s, and based this (heretical) notion > on the absence of perpetual motion machines after centuries of effort. > The idea caught on, and is inextricably interwoven with all laws and > theories proposed since. So much so that it is almost impossible for > any of us to think outside it. Let's not try. And about 60 years later, his evidence disappeared, with superconductivity, superfluids, and especially with the "problem of electromagnetic collapse." (Why don't all electrons in atoms radiate energy, decay, and fall into the nucleus?) Finally, the Casmir force and the discovery of vacuum (ZPE) energy put paid to the idea that "perpetual motion machines of the second kind" were in any sense impossible. (Impractical and useless, maybe...) If the theory that seems to fit here is correct--the drop at the exit would cause a reduction in the magnetic force, then the same principle (Pauli exclusion) that prevents electromagnetic collapse in atoms is at work here too. So I see Greg's device (and it's predecessors) as consistant with current physics... Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 17:12:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA06044; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:09:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:09:32 -0700 Message-Id: <339350B9.B6763CE5 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 03:01:13 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Anomalous Weight Behavior in YBa2Cu3O7 Compounds at Low Temperature X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-gfnj.0.MU1.x2sap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7781 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I fetched this paper recently and I did not examined yet. Podkletnov experiment is referenced. This eprint is published today. Paper is postscipt and 64KB Below page is located at "http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/9705043" Regards, Hamdi Ucar Physics, abstract physics/9705043 From: Fred Rounds Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:21:57 -0800 Anomalous Weight Behavior in YBa2Cu3O7 Compounds at Low Temperature Authors: Frederic N. Rounds Comments: 31 pages, 16 drawings, postscript generated from MS Word Version 6 Document Subj-class: General Physics YBa2Cu3O7 high temperature superconductor samples were weighed on an electronic balance during a warming cycle beginning at 77 degrees K. The experiment was configured so that the YBa2Cu3O7 material was weighed along with a magnet, a target mass, and liquid Nitrogen coolant. The weights were captured during Nitrogen evaporation. Results indicated unexpected variations in the system weight that appear as a function of temperature and possibly other parameters. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 17:26:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA17096; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:09:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:09:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3393513A.81BCEDBD verisoft.com.tr> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 03:03:22 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??! X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4vLmW.0.qA4.53sap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7780 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Hamdi - > > Sorry about mispelling your name. It's not one I'm used to seeing in > print - won't happen again (unless it's a typo I missed). I read the letters out of sequence this one first and searched my mistyped name in your previous letters. One of my friend also call me "Hami", it is a nice convention too. > Have you aligned the sawtooth array against a straightedge so you know > there's no convergence in the array and it still works? The only way > I've been able to get it to work is with some separation between the > adjacent magnets, and even then I'm not absolutely sure of what I'm > seeing. Do you mean such a configuration? //////// ============= |||||||| My configuration like this //////////// ============== \\\\\\\\\\\\ I have not time to retry this setup until I read your posting. When I tried I observed this parameters are critical: Distance between arrays: Should be close for the forwarding effect will show but not too close for inter magnet potentials(walls) arise. Also ball are very strongly pulled by both magnet and it levitate. I used a large U profile and put the ball inside. because the levitation no rolling occur. Angle of the magnets: This time I made bigger sawtooths (more inclined magnets). It seems me the effect is reduced a bit. I made only 2 x 9 magnet stacks, and this not suffice to observe the OU effect. Because the exit potential is so large, so it is impossible to free ball out of exit. The system working principle is different from Greg's in potential criteria. In our configuration it seems that the ball is always in negative potential. But if it gains kinetic energy without loosing more potential energy while moving forward, It my free itself if the magnets array are long enough. I think At least 50 cm array is required. But instead of to try to escape the ball it will more easier to shape the track as a loop and turn around. If you asked me others than I answered, please write them explicitly because my English is poor. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 17:33:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA21197; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33935660.C30C48A1 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 03:25:20 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PsNJ82.0.yA5.yMsap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7782 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Francis J. Stenger" wrote: >> 3. The BALL WOULD NOT START FROM AN INTERIOR NULL POINT! If I slowly pushed it past a null point, it would settle into the next one. << This is not the case of my setup. Ball is continually pulled to the exit on every position interior. And the strength of the force was constant until the end. Also there is a dead point just before the entry and the ball is expelled backward from there. But these things are dramatically changed with the "overlap size" and the distance between arrays. If your magnet size is 25x40x10, 1/4 inch overlap is not bad. But the oversized ball(1.5 inch) is out of my range. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 17:46:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA22005; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3392E143.4AD8 worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 17:05:39 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Web Page Update. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EQw-y1.0.lN5.pRsap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7783 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Web Page Update At http://home.worldonline.nl/~catware P.S.: It's not the web page of GREG self, "Ronald's Greg watson's SMOT project page" sounds bad, so read it as something like: Greg Watson's SMOT, Project page -- Ronald. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 18:01:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA26691; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:58:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:58:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:57:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706030057.TAA21297 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Still Least! (SMOT) Resent-Message-ID: <"9N17e2.0.vW6.Xmsap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7784 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: We spent all day trying to get SMOT action to occur at EarthTech. We cut a very nice "S" exit on ramp #1 with our milling machine and, yes, that does preserve much of the ball's kinetic energy when it goes to the next ramp. After MUCH fiddling with things, we did succeed in linking two ramps together and achieving a table-top roll out....but that is 12mm BELOW the ball's starting height! As a simple comparison, we inclined a straight piece of U-channel such that one end was 12mm higher than the other end....no magnets anywhere. The ball traverses this "device" and roars off the end with MUCH greater velocity than it does when exiting the two-ramp SMOT. Same vertical drop in both cases. Clearly we are not replicating Greg's claims. We are not complaining, just reporting. Possibly our "short" magnets are the cause. I ordered some magnets that are precisely the same height as Greg's today. Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 18:06:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA19032; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:59:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:59:54 -0700 Date: 02 Jun 97 20:57:47 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Message-ID: <970603005747_76016.2701_JHC38-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"7g9Ci2.0.Bf4.8osap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7785 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick asked: >>Can you have continuous linking without eventual array convergence or blue hole drop-through regauging? I think that's what it comes down to.<< We might find the answer when we get to see the RMOD. I think the rolling resistance plays a huge part in this. I tried my configuration with a wooden rule instead of the hard plastic and could not get roll-away on a horizontal rail. Also, to get roll-away, the ball must strike a rigid surface. I get virtually no roll-away when it strikes corrugated paper. Can you say "teflon rails"? If you have any PTFE, try just a smige on your rail. KY Jelly *does not work*. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 18:33:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA26110; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 18:27:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 18:27:36 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:11:08 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re:Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"GcynG3.0.lN6.6Ctap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7787 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace - > The inventor said the key was getting the > angles of all the magnets right. That may be an important clue to the sawtooth array. I couldn't get it to work up close to the rail. It might link across two or three magnets, then stick. Adjustments up close where the power is greater and field geometry is tighter are just too critical. But when I had it at low power with a very low friction rail and the magnets far away, adjustment was not critical and it worked easily. Looser field geometry. Maybe it really does work, but you have to compromise power for adjustment lattitude. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 18:34:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA25677; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 18:27:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 18:27:10 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Snowflake Memory Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 20:53:30 +0000 Message-ID: <19970602205328.AAA24231 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"_0Xnh2.0.2H6.iBtap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7786 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:33 AM 6/2/97 +0000, Mitchell Swartz wrote: > >>I have it that there are no two snowflakes exactly alike. > > .... who really looked at all of them? > We could start looking tomorrow if you wish to drop by. :-) Seems that the press made a big to-do about someone finding an identical pair a couple of years back. Lets see. 3.3E22 water molecules/gram arrange groups of100 molecules N factorial ways equal 10^99, times 3.3E20, thats a bunch? God is an ice cube? Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 19:31:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA09825; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <339380F2.6893 interlaced.net> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 22:26:58 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! References: <33935660.C30C48A1 verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ARcKd3.0.RP2.n3uap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7789 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hamdi Ucar wrote: > If your magnet > size is 25x40x10, 1/4 inch overlap is not bad. But the oversized > ball(1.5 inch) is out of my range. > Hamdi, my magnets are actually 22x48x9 - not far from your numbers. My son may get me a variety of ball sizes to try. Also, perhaps I should increase the width of the array to array gap. As it is, the ball clears the inner magnet corners by only 2 or 3 mm and this causes a very strong "cog" effect. Also, the center of my large ball runs 2 or 3 mm ABOVE the TOP of the magnets - so the downward force is large. So far, this is a very rough apparatus! Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 19:34:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA09301; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33938019.78BD math.ucla.edu> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 19:23:21 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Estimate of Eddy Losses in SMOT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2QRHc2.0.CH2.P1uap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7788 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Here is a simple estimate of the Eddy current losses in the SMOT device. Basic model: as ball rolls down channel, it carries with it a perturbing magnetic field of strength dB. These field lines cut through an ~ L x L sized area of the side of the channel adjacent to the ball. The flux through this area is Phi = dB L^2. It is moving at speed v = speed of the ball, so as it sweeps past a stationary point on the channel, the observed rate of change of flux in a given LxL region is roughly given by (peak flux)/(transit time) = Phi/(L/v) = dB L v. By the law of induction this is the integral of eletric field aorund the perimeter of the region, which is roughly the voltage difference seen across the region. Thus, the induced voltage in the channel wall is V ~ dB L v. This characteristic length scale L is roughly the extent of the ball, so L ~ r, the radius of the ball. Thus V ~ dB r v (note units are right by multiply through by a coulomb and boith sides have units of energy) This voltage acts arcoss a length L of the channel wall, which has some resistance R. The end-to-end resistance of a LxLxw segment of channel wall is R = res / w (w = width of channel wall ~ 1 mm) res = resistivity of the metal. The given voltage and resistance result in a current I = V/R. Thus, the power dissipated in eddy losses is P_channel_eddy = IV = V^2/R ~ (dB r v w)/res The above calculation was for the eddy loss in the channel (acutally we did one side of the channel---multiply by 2 if you like to include both sides, though that doesn't matter much at this level of accuracy). There are also eddy losses in the ball. The eddy losses in the ball can be estimated similarly, if we interpret dB as the change in field due to the change in location of the ball moving distance L. The only difference is that the "width" of the ball is w ~ r in computing the across-the-ball resistance R. Thus P_ball_eddy ~ dB_ext r^2 v/res_ball where dB_ext is the typical change in field strngth when the ball moves by one ball diamter. This is also |grad B| r. res_ball is resistivity of the ball material Based on Gregs field simulatiuon data, it looks like the induced field of the ball is dB ~ 0.02 Tesla, while the change in external field due to the ball moving by on radii ~ 1cm is about dB_ext ~ (1/10) B ~ 0.004 Tesla. For r ~ 1cm = 0.01m, v ~ 1cm/sec = 0.01m/s, w = width of channel wall ~ 1mm = 0.001m, res = resistivity of Aluminum = 2.7 * 10^-8 Ohm-m at room temp, while res_ball = resistivity of stainless steel ~ 70*10^-8 O-m. P_channel_eddy ~ 0.02 * 0.01 * 0.01 * 0.001 / 2*10^-8 ~ 0.1 Watts. P_ball_eddy ~ 0.004 * 0.01 * 0.01 * 0.01 / 70*10^-8 ~ 0.01 Watts Also, they scale in proportion to v, in cm/s, so P_channel_eddy ~ 0.1 v Watts (v in cm/s) P_ball_eddy ~ 0.01 v Watts These numbers are enormous compared to the mechanical loss terms---they would be by far the dominant loss term. Given that status these numbers should be double checked to see if I made some error above. If the eddy losses are really this large---or anywhere one this order of 0.1--0.001 Watts, the device would only have to run for ~ 1 minute to demonstrate that it was not running off the energy used to magnetize the ball, and run for ~ 1 hour to demonstrate that it was not demagnetizing the permanent magnets. In that case, one would have to conclude it was pulling a power of 10's to 100's of milli-watts from somewhere as yet unknown. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 21:10:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA26068; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 21:03:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 21:03:44 -0700 Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:03:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706030403.XAA07510 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Estimate of Eddy Losses in SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"XzZqg2.0.EN6.VUvap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7790 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 07:23 PM 6/2/97 -0700, Barry Merriman wrote: Barry, I'm still confused about the energy ramifications of magnetization: >to demonstrate that it was >not running off the energy used to magnetize the ball, Here (and in earlier posts) you appear to be saying that, as the ball becomes magnetized, energy is released which could drive the ball around, right? >and run for ~ 1 hour to demonstrate that it was not >demagnetizing the permanent magnets. Here you appear to be saying that, as the permanent magnets become de-magnetized, energy is released which could drive the ball around, right? Which is the lower energy state of an object: magnetized or unmagnetized? -- off the tracks again in Austin Scott From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 21:34:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA29336; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 21:27:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 21:27:40 -0700 Message-Id: <33938DE5.869468FA verisoft.com.tr> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 07:22:13 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Re: Estimate of Eddy Losses in SMOT X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"21ItJ3.0.HA7.yqvap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7791 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Barry, This is just I am thinking (usualy). [eddy losses on tracks] You wrote: Here is a simple estimate of the Eddy current losses in the SMOT device. Basic model: as ball rolls down channel, it carries with it a perturbing magnetic field of strength dB. These field lines cut through an ~ L x L sized area of the side of the channel adjacent to the ball. The flux through this area is Phi = dB L^2. <..> This characteristic length scale L is roughly the extent of the ball, so L ~ r, Did you take account the channel is below the ball and not all the perturbing flux pass trough the channel maybe a quarter of. Also when the induction occur in the channel it will oppose the flux passing trough, and the flux partially will choose an other path. Maybe with these circumstances, eddy currents will not be so effective. But this is a very good argument for choosing non conductive channels. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 21:43:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA31537; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 21:40:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 21:40:45 -0700 X-Sender: ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l mail.eskimo.com From: Ed Wall Subject: Re: Rich Murray's "Seventh Miley Critique" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 04:40:05 +0000 Message-ID: <19970603043948.AAB2037 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"rCpN43.0.hi7.C1wap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7793 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mike Carrell wrote: > >Rich Murray was perhaps not aware that his attack on IE was tantamount to a >personal attack on Gene Mallove, to whom we all owe considerable gratitude. > A superbly worded retort, Mike! Ed Wall From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 21:47:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA27156; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 21:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 21:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 21:35:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Barry Merriman Message-Id: <199706030435.VAA20408 moebius.math.ucla.edu> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Estimate of Eddy Losses in SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"lSiSG1.0.3e6.ryvap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7792 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > Which is the lower energy state of an object: magnetized or unmagnetized? This is a trick question. At the macroscopic level, the greater the magnetization, the greater the field strength and thus the greater the energy. Thus energy is a increasing function of the bulk magnetization. However, at the microscopic level, what if a given atom or tiny magnetic domain is not aligned with the local field, it is energetically favorable for it to align itself, somewhat contrary to the macro behavior. Thus, the lowest energy state is to organize the material into microscopically aligned domains, which themselves are randomly oriented. The energy is then an increasing function of how well aligned these microdomains are. At the other end of the spectrum, perfect alignment of all atoms is not the highest energy state of the system---if it was in that state, you could up the energy even more by misaligning one single atom. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 21:53:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA00425; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 21:47:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 21:47:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3393A281.225 skypoint.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 23:50:09 -0500 From: John Logajan Organization: Skypoint Communications, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Estimate of Eddy Losses in SMOT References: <33938019.78BD math.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ymg4B.0.V6.c7wap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7794 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: > These numbers are enormous compared to the mechanical loss > terms---they would be by far the dominant loss term. Then "speed kills" seems to be a good design motto. Go for altitude. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 22:01:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA29607; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 21:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 21:51:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Estimate of Eddy Lossesin SMOT Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 04:50:18 +0000 Message-ID: <19970603045016.AAA10182 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"VYE2K3.0.WE7.YBwap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7795 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: >In that case, one would have to conclude it was pulling a >power of 10's to 100's of milli-watts from somewhere >as yet unknown. I guess the first thing to do is dig out the old crystal set (cat whisker and headphones)eliminate all possible sources of electromagnetic radiation from a fraction of a hertz to microwave frequencies. (especially house wiring and powerline fields). Then set up a pair of Helmholtz coils to eliminate the Geomagnetic Field and it's fluctuations. Scott can do these "chores" in his spare time. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 23:25:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA13138; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:19:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:19:58 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3393513A.81BCEDBD verisoft.com.tr> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 20:18:46 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??! Resent-Message-ID: <"1RDc6.0.CD3.DUxap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7796 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hamdi - > Do you mean such a configuration? > > //////// > ============= > |||||||| > No. > My configuration like this > > //////////// > ============== > \\\\\\\\\\\\ Yes. By straightedge, I just meant a reference line or barrier along the magnets to make sure they were all in a good line, without having them come nearer the ball track at one end, or vary their tilted angle over the length of the track. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 23:26:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA13252; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:20:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:20:37 -0700 Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706030620.XAA02657 denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"bSEcH2.0.-E3.qUxap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7797 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Rick, Thanks for the info! Tried several configurations that looked promising but still not OU. Maybe could be used in a rotor design. In Kawai patent he used only one set of magnets in his rotor design. Test Results: 1. "V" shaped Hamdi worked best (see A below) with no spacing between magnets in array. In the diagram, the ball (13mm) rolls left to right. Stacked 1x23 magnets, (6 x9.5hi x19 long mm ea.) 45 deg. at midpoint of each magnet, per array, _parallel_ to each other with track (13x13mm Al) in middle. In opposite configuration to V or a lamda (see B below), the ball did not make it pass 4 magnets. /////// \\\\\\\\ A ===o====> worked B ====o====> Didn't work \\\\\\\ //////// a. On level 190 mm long track the ball rolled to the end and exits or gets attacted to either side magnet array end. This was unique due to the ball would go all the way in one direction. This could be configured into a circle for continuous rotation? If the ball got stuck it would lock up in one position on the array. On the SMOT array the ball would oscilate back and forth in the magnetic field. b. The 1x23 array wasn't strong enough for exit any slope greater than 6mm. c. With 2x10 array the ball could go up to 13mm and exit just like SMOT Phase 1. d. To start the ball rolling it had to be placed within the magnetic field between the arrays. Could not be pulled into the array like SMOT. c. If the ball didn't exit the end it would oscilate only on the last magnet pair. This is the same as SMOT. 2. With (9.5w x 22.25h x 47.6mm) magnets in 1x3 array a 16mm ball would exit just like Phase 1 SMOT. Interesting design, still needs work, Best Regards, Michael At 10:40 AM 6/2/97 -1000, you wrote: >Michael - > > > Interesting design! I'll try it. What > > was the spacing betwn the magnets and the > > angle you found that worked? Ball, magnet > > and ramp size? > >Here's some detail. > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 23:36:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA14086; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:30:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:30:37 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 02:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970603023000_-128330811 emout18.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re:Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"jvnoW1.0.yR3.Cexap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7798 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 03/06/1997 06:18:02 , Horace Heffner wrote : << Note - the above is very similar to an idea in the popular press a few months ago I believe. I don't recall the particulars, but believe the inventor of the similar idea, as applied to a rotary motor, is the father of a famous (in Japan) Japanese singer. It was a rotary motor with only one set of magnets around the periphery, not two as above. I think the "ball" was a magnet (or multiple spaced magnets) mounted on a rotor. The inventor said the key was getting the angles of all the magnets right. It would be interesting to see if there is longitdinal force, a force in the direction of the track, between the two magnet sets above. If so, there is maybe no need for the ball to get a rotory design. Simply make one set of magnets the armature, the other the stator, and let them go. Regards, Horace Heffner >> Hi Hamdi and Horace, I have found a interesting patent which use "multiple spaced magnets" angulary adjustable mounted on a rotor : 4443776 : Rotary magnet device ------------------------------------------------------------------------ INVENTORS:Cunningham; David J., Fort Wayne, IN 46805 ABSTRACT: A rotary magnet device comprises at least two circular arrays of wedge-shaped magnetized elements which are angularly adjustable about their respective radial axes. The elements of each array are arranged in surface-to-surface facing relationship with surfaces of one polarity facing surfaces of opposite polarity, thereby creating a magnetic field about a respective array. Rotary motion is created when the magnetic fields of the respective arrays are brought together to interact. The rate and direction of and torque created by rotation can be selectively varied by angularly adjusting the magnetized elements relative to their radial axes. Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 23:39:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA10195; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970602232717.00b21c60 mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 23:35:19 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Estimate of Eddy Losses in SMOT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"TamAY2.0.CV2.Yixap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7800 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I use glass channels and glass ball filled with powdered iron. I was forced to go this way because of my unwise (in hindsight) choice to use strong NdFeB magnets. The eddy current losses are proportional to the magnitude of magnetic field. Only the magnetic field differential between the top & bottom of the ramp is responsible for moving the ball through SMOT (excluding far ramp attraction), the absolute flux intensity doesn't increase the SMOT effect and makes the eddy current losses and engineering problems enormous. I think I will gave to abandon my "ego improvements" and get some refrigerator magnets :) BTW: I did managed to get 4 NDFeB SMOT ramps linked reliably with great effort, but did not close the loop. The "leakage" attraction from the powerful NdFeB magnets outside SMOT ramp is very strong and difficult to deal with, forcing me to increase the track length which in turn increases friction losses because now the ball has to travel so far to get away form the "leakage" attraction. At 07:22 AM 6/3/97 +0400, you wrote: >Hi Barry, > >This is just I am thinking (usualy). [eddy losses on tracks] > >You wrote: > > Here is a simple estimate of the Eddy current > losses in the SMOT device. > > Basic model: as ball rolls down channel, it carries with it > a perturbing magnetic field of strength dB. These field > lines cut through an ~ L x L sized area of the side of the > channel adjacent to the ball. The flux through this area is > Phi = dB L^2. > ><..> > > This characteristic > length scale L is roughly the extent of the ball, so L ~ r, > >Did you take account the channel is below the ball and not all the >perturbing flux pass trough the channel maybe a quarter of. Also when >the induction occur in the channel it will oppose the flux passing >trough, and the flux partially will choose an other path. Maybe with >these circumstances, eddy currents will not be so effective. But this is >a very good argument for choosing non conductive channels. > >Regards, > >Hamdi Ucar > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 23:42:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA10090; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:34:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33938019.78BD math.ucla.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 20:32:35 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Estimate of Eddy Losses in SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"eyqWC2.0.aT2.phxap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7799 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Barry - > P_channel_eddy ~ 0.02 * 0.01 * 0.01 * 0.001 / 2*10^-8 > > ~ 0.1 Watts. Wow, if those figures are right, we *really* ought to find ourselves some nice non-conductive channel if we want to observe an "OU" effect and see what changes our engineering and modification efforts are doing to that part of the system. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 23:51:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA12022; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:48:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199706022316.TAA04669 spectre.mitre.org> References: <970531213722_100433.1541_BHG66-2 CompuServe.COM> (message from Chris Tinsley on 31 May 97 17:37:23 EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 20:46:06 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Smot thoughts Resent-Message-ID: <"UrAg4.0.lx2.Yuxap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7801 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robert - > So I see Greg's device (and it's predecessors) as consistant with > current physics... Maybe so. But perhaps we need a new term for Watts of energy which are drawn from the void. Something futuristic and Jetson-like. Watts...Jetsons ... How about: the "Watson"? The least we could do is embarrass him a bit since he's responsible for starting this whole SMOT mess. ;) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 2 23:57:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA12558; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706030653.XAA11214 denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??! Resent-Message-ID: <"Fa4n73.0.443.d-xap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7802 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:03 AM 6/3/97 +0400, Hamdi Ucar wrote: >Rick Monteverde wrote: > >> >> Hamdi - >> >> Sorry about mispelling your name. It's not one I'm used to seeing in >> print - won't happen again (unless it's a typo I missed). > >I read the letters out of sequence this one first and searched my >mistyped name in your previous letters. One of my friend also call me >"Hami", it is a nice convention too. > > >> Have you aligned the sawtooth array against a straightedge so you know >> there's no convergence in the array and it still works? The only way >> I've been able to get it to work is with some separation between the >> adjacent magnets, and even then I'm not absolutely sure of what I'm >> seeing. > >Do you mean such a configuration? > > //////// > ============= > |||||||| > >My configuration like this > > //////////// > ============== > \\\\\\\\\\\\ > > >I have not time to retry this setup until I read your posting. When I >tried I observed this parameters are critical: > >Distance between arrays: > Should be close for the forwarding effect will show but not too close >for inter magnet potentials(walls) arise. Also ball are very strongly >pulled by both magnet and it levitate. I used a large U profile and put >the ball inside. because the levitation no rolling occur. > >Angle of the magnets: > This time I made bigger sawtooths (more inclined magnets). It seems >me the effect is reduced a bit. > > >I made only 2 x 9 magnet stacks, and this not suffice to observe the OU >effect. Because the exit potential is so large, so it is impossible to >free ball out of exit. The system working principle is different from >Greg's in potential criteria. In our configuration it seems that the >ball is always in negative potential. But if it gains kinetic energy >without loosing more potential energy while moving forward, It my free >itself if the magnets array are long enough. I think At least 50 cm >array is required. But instead of to try to escape the ball it will more >easier to shape the track as a loop and turn around. Yes, I noticed that the ball was always on a negative potential. Always moving foreward seeking the last magnet! At 190mm, in my experiment, the ball did free itself. If this was in a circle it might go continuous. Currently thinking along the line of mounting 13mm steel balls on plexiglass disk with magnetic assay on top and bottom. >If you asked me others than I answered, please write them explicitly >because my English is poor. > >Regards, > >Hamdi Ucar Hi Hamdi, Thanks for sharing your design! It has potential for a rotary unit and as a mag assay in the SMOT model. See my reply to Rick for my experiments I did today. Still working on all this. Best Regards, Michael Randall From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 00:08:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA13338; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 01:09:05 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Estimate of Eddy Losses in SMOT In-Reply-To: <3393A281.225 skypoint.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"4fKEF.0.KG3.K7yap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7803 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Barry Merriman wrote: > > These numbers are enormous compared to the mechanical loss > > terms---they would be by far the dominant loss term. > >John Logajan wrote: > Then "speed kills" seems to be a good design motto. Go for > altitude. > I've run off and started my "HIGH-SPEED RMOD" ... never good at the above math that got us (smotter's) here, but are you saying with no vaccuum assist or extremely well balanced system .. I'm 'Dead in the water before I finish? (ugh).. se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 00:11:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA17940; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:08:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:08:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970603000927.00b22d04 mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 00:09:29 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Smot thoughts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"q7gEv.0.AO4.yByap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7804 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Good choice: "Watson" it is ! BTW: Is it a wise idea to distinguish between the "conventional" and ZPE power units? At 08:46 PM 6/2/97 -1000, you wrote: > >Maybe so. But perhaps we need a new term for Watts of energy which are >drawn from the void. Something futuristic and Jetson-like. Watts...Jetsons >... > >How about: the "Watson"? The least we could do is embarrass him a bit since >he's responsible for starting this whole SMOT mess. > >;) > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 00:24:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA14305; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:20:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:20:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:17:53 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Rotational machine patents Resent-Message-ID: <"T3G4Y1.0.RV3.0Nyap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7805 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 2:30 AM 6/3/97, JNaudin509 aol.com wrote: [snip] > >Hi Hamdi and Horace, > >I have found a interesting patent which use "multiple spaced magnets" >angulary adjustable mounted on a rotor : > >4443776 : Rotary magnet device >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >INVENTORS:Cunningham; David J., Fort Wayne, IN 46805 > [snip] > >Sincerely, > >Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Thanks! Very interesting. Also of possibly closer claims, and with a very notable fee status of *expired(E1)* is: "4642502 : Dynamoelectric machine with permanent magnet and magnet mounting surface arrangement INVENTORS: Carpenter; Keith H., Kettering, OH Miller; Jon E., Spring Valley, OH Murphy; John W., Kettering, OH ABSTRACT: A dynamoelectric machine has a rotor or stator which comprises a core with axial groups of flat, rectangular magnet mounting surfaces, each successive magnet mounting surface of a group being circumferentially offset by a common angle of axial rotation from the previous magnet mounting surface. A magnet is mounted on each magnet mounting surface; and each magnet has a flat surface for mounting and an opposing arcuate surface to help form a cylindrical surface. Each of the magnets has the shape, when viewed radially, of a parallelogram forming a skew angle with the axis corresponding with the rotational offset of the magnet mounting surfaces to define skewed slots between skewed magnetic poles extending the substantial axial length of the core. The core may comprise polygonal lamina with the flat polygon sides grouped to form the magnet mounting surfaces; or it may comprise circular lamina with a non-magnetic sleeve having the magnet mounting surfaces. The latter provides a larger but more even air gap. " I would also like to note that I checked the fee status on the IBM patent data base for Hartman's 4,215,330 and found it blank. This is either an indication that (1) the fees are paid up or (2) the patent data base is not up to date or in error. It seems likely to be (1). The SMOT may very possibly not be public domain. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 00:34:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA15189; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:28:20 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Estimate of Eddy Losses in SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"gRJjo.0.Fj3.oWyap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7806 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Barry - > > > P_channel_eddy ~ 0.02 * 0.01 * 0.01 * 0.001 / 2*10^-8 > > > > ~ 0.1 Watts. > >Wow, if those figures are right, we *really* ought to find ourselves some >nice non-conductive channel if we want to observe an "OU" effect and see >what changes our engineering and modification efforts are doing to that >part of the system. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI There may be some opposing value to offset the cost of the induced currents. It seems like a possibility the currents induced in the track and ball may generate foward motion on the ball. It is acting like a combined rail gun and homopolar. In addition, electrons in the rotating ball should generate lift at the top of the ball, which has the highest forward velocity, which might account for improved performance on a ramp vs a flat run. If this effect I imagine is real then it makes a difference as to whether the N poles are on the right or left side of the track, from the ball's point of view! The N poles should be facing inwards on the left side of the track. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 00:42:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA20871; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:36:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:36:16 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:34:24 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Estimate of Eddy Losses in SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"U83462.0.165.mbyap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7807 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 1:09 AM 6/3/97, Steve Ekwall wrote: [snip] >I've run off and started my "HIGH-SPEED RMOD" ... never good at >the above math that got us (smotter's) here, but are you saying with no >vaccuum assist or extremely well balanced system .. I'm 'Dead in the >water before I finish? (ugh).. > > >se >------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ >-=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 If you are using non-conductive ceramic magnets, and ferrite slugs for the armature, and no conductive metal parts, you should be perfectly OK with regard to eddy currents. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 01:02:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA23288; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:55:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:55:35 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:53:39 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Rotational machine patents Resent-Message-ID: <"3A3J73.0.lh5.styap" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7808 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Oops! It appears 4642502 : "Dynamoelectric machine with permanent magnet and magnet mounting surface arrangement" is not an ou type device. Sorry. The information about the Hartman patent 4,215,330 fee status being current does seem to be correct though. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 01:57:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA20674; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 01:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 01:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3393DAE3.1F7E microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 18:20:43 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Rollaway Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gX7Kq3.0.o25.zjzap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7809 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, The GOAL at present is to : 1) Achieve a same height, level rollaway. THEN 2) Achieve a 2mm higher exit, level rollaway. In my experience, with the present SMOT ramp design, this takes about a 17-18mm drop using a "S" shaped exit. The drop distance will vary depending on the config of your exit magnets and ball size. This drop height can be achieved with TWO of my ramps. I have confirmed this today. It doesn't matter HOW many ramps it takes to achieve a rollaway, but to achieve a rollaway is the goal to work to. You may be able to get a rollaway with one ramp or need linked ramps. Forget about dropping to a desk, its an EQUAL HEIGHT, LEVEL rollaway that you need to achieve. THEN get a 2mm higher rollaway exit and the rollaround "N" gauge track will work. Hope this helps, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 02:40:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA23642; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3393E499.499D microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 19:02:09 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT RAMP Linking to Increase Drop Height and Get a Rollaway Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VTD8o2.0.Kn5.cL-ap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7810 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, There are two methods to increase final drop height by ramp linking : 1) Mount the linked ramps on a base board and slowly lift the exit end until you get a same height level rollaway. Can be done with 2 or 3 linked ramps. With a 2mm lift at the exit end of the ramp board you would have : Start at 0mm, climb to 13mm drop to 1mm, Start at 1mm, climb to 14mm drop to 0mm With a 4mm lift at the exit end of the ramp board you would have : Start at 0mm, climb to 14mm drop to 2mm, Start at 2mm, climb to 16mm drop to 0mm With a 6mm lift at the exit end of the ramp board you would have : Start at 0mm, climb to 15mm drop to 3mm, Start at 3mm, climb to 18mm drop to 0mm (and rollaway!) 2) Vary the drop on each linked ramp by lifting each ramp relative to the last ramp. This method will need 3 linked ramps. With a 1mm lift on the second ramp and a 2mm lift on the third ramp you would have : Start at 0mm, climb to 12mm drop to 1mm, Start at 1mm, climb to 13mm drop to 2mm Start at 2mm, climb to 14mm drop to 0mm. With a 2mm lift on the second ramp and a 4mm lift on the third ramp you would have : Start at 0mm, climb to 12mm drop to 2mm, Start at 2mm, climb to 14mm drop to 4mm Start at 4mm, climb to 16mm drop to 6mm. With a 3mm lift on the second ramp and a 6mm lift on the third ramp you would have : Start at 0mm, climb to 12mm drop to 3mm, Start at 3mm, climb to 15mm drop to 6mm Start at 6mm, climb to 18mm drop to 0mm. (and rollaway!) Which ever method you choose, remember your goal to to achieve a SAME HEIGHT, LEVEL rollaway of the ball. THEN go for a 2mm higher exit. THEN use the "N" guage track rollaround system to close the loop. Over to you, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 02:43:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA24127; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 02:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 02:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970603023951.00b29d38 mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 02:39:53 -0700 To: Rick Monteverde , vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: SMOT AND (AntiG correlation and Bismuth) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"0kCkL3.0.vu5.XP-ap" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7811 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Thank you for the offer. I've just noticed it. I have access to bismuth powder in local school. I am going to borrow some and try your suggestion. What proportion of Iron to bismuth powder do you suggest ? At 07:10 PM 6/1/97 -1000, you wrote: >Mike - > > > Hello ALL, Regarding msg below regarding > > bismuth and SMOT experiment. I was > > wondering when someone mentioned using > > the glass marble ball filled ferrous oxdid or > > iron powder, not sure but adding bismuth to > > it, I wonder if it would manifest any unusual > > anomolies like greater velocity up the > > ramp... > >Epitaxy has the powder filled glass spheres, I have some powdered bismuth. >I offered to send Epitaxy some, but he didn't respond. Might not have seen >it, or thought I was joking. I might try it myself, with an epoxy molded >ball with powder loaded in when I get time. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 05:34:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA09891; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 05:31:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 05:31:40 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:27:38 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970603203142.23a739ee po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8 po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mpower Subject: CFV: Watson as a unit of energy Resent-Message-ID: <"Bdnia.0.PQ2.hw0bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7812 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Rick Monteverde posted the following (edited for brevity) at 20:46 1997.06.02 -1000: >>Robert - >> >> > So I see Greg's device (and it's predecessors) as consistant with >> > current physics... >> >>Maybe so. But perhaps we need a new term for Watts of energy which are >>drawn from the void. Something futuristic and Jetson-like. Watts...Jetsons >>... >> >>How about: the "Watson"? The least we could do is embarrass him a bit since >>he's responsible for starting this whole SMOT mess. >> >>- Rick Monteverde >>Honolulu, HI >> > >Good choice: "Watson" it is ! > >BTW: Is it a wise idea to distinguish between the "conventional" and ZPE >power units? ++++++++++++ Used O-U device salesmen (in the near future) will love us for giving them a way to pitch used SMOT-based generators. "This baby here was used only by an old -grandad nerd. Why, this old fart only ever used it to power his old computer (only on Sundays, mind you). It's still capable of 2000 Watsons at full torque..." etc. "This 1998 CryoFusion Model 6 still pulls a respectable 3.2 Watson/expense ratio" Ad nauseam... +++++++++++++ But, nevertheless, I believe we need this one on two counts: 1) We need to distinguish between watts in (expense/'seeding' or whathaveyou..) watts out (up to 100% of watts in, I suppose) and Watsons which would be a starting point for analyzing and quantifying the efficiency of the devices. 2) and also, go figure how the skeptopaths will react when they discover we've given a name to something they say can't exist - it would be a sort of P.R. coup. Imagine someone like Hairy Conover trying to explain that Watson's can't exist to someone from National Enquirer. . I move to vote. 1 Watson = 1 vagrant watt (lacking visible means of source) ********************************************************** * http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 ******** ********************************************************** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 05:39:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA10794; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 05:38:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 05:38:41 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:38:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970603083803_1558957394 emout03.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Re EarthTech's Ragland cell Resent-Message-ID: <"83hyt2.0.ae2.F11bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7813 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott, If Ragland has been working with an open cell, then working with a closed cell is a big change in his protocol. I don't really understand why closing the cell should make a difference, either, but I've heard repeatedly that it can. In your post of June 1, you said that you are assuming that whatever the reaction is, it occurs inside the cathode. That's a big assumption. By the way, do you know whether or not Storms has ever tried 20 runs with good palladium in an open cell? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 06:09:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA14386; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 06:07:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 06:07:49 -0700 Message-ID: <3393F0CA.126F microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 19:54:10 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Still Least! (SMOT) References: <199706030057.TAA21297 natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"b3Ae01.0.eW3.aS1bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7814 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > We spent all day trying to get SMOT action to occur at EarthTech. > > We cut a very nice "S" exit on ramp #1 with our milling machine and, yes, > that does preserve much of the ball's kinetic energy when it goes to the > next ramp. > > After MUCH fiddling with things, we did succeed in linking two ramps > together and achieving a table-top roll out....but that is 12mm BELOW the > ball's starting height! > > As a simple comparison, we inclined a straight piece of U-channel such that > one end was 12mm higher than the other end....no magnets anywhere. The ball > traverses this "device" and roars off the end with MUCH greater velocity > than it does when exiting the two-ramp SMOT. Same vertical drop in both cases. > > Clearly we are not replicating Greg's claims. We are not complaining, just > reporting. All the ramps I have ever played, exhibit draw back. A rollaway out of 100mm requires about 0.1mm or less drop under normal conditions. Rollaways, like ramp linking, its touchy stuff, but after some time it's not so difficult. > Possibly our "short" magnets are the cause. I ordered some magnets that are > precisely the same height as Greg's today. > > Scott Little Hi Scott, Good to see you are moving ahead. Forget the drop to the table. Thats not where its at. Use a equal height exit rail. Then work to increase the final drop height until you get a rollaway. Remember to use a curved entry to the level exit rail to preserve as much KE as possible. I find that you need around 1.5 ball diameters drop height to achieve a rollaway. Best Regards, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 06:13:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA07813; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 06:09:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 06:09:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3393F283.B64 microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 20:01:31 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SAM GORDON CC: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hello Greg, Here is an idea. References: <199706021801.OAA08191 ns.bluegrass.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5-hUB3.0.uv1.jT1bp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7816 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: SAM GORDON wrote: > > Hello Greg, I know you must be neck high with email at the moment so I > shall be brief. Attached is a pic of a rotory type motor in thought. It may > not be worth > looking at or not, I think that by ether adding more armature sections with > the mag accelerators of each section out of phase one should be able to get > some noticeable power > out of it. I'd love to build it, however as you can see it is a bit more > complex than the smot. And the wife would KILL me if i spent money building > this thing. I found the mags for this in a C & H mail order mag part number > mag9700. Hope this is helpful. > > C & H sales co. > 2176 East Colorado Blvd. > Pasadena, CA 91107 > > phone 1-800-325-9465 Hi Sam, I believe the SMOT idea currently requires gravity to function. Thanks for the magnet info, will post to the group. Best regards, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 06:14:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA07703; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 06:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 06:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3393ED6F.2746 microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 19:39:51 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: N gauge loop References: <3.0.32.19970602155340.00b198b0 mail.localaccess.com> <33936654.209A@southconn.com> <339375E8.2D67@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"USGMS.0.Fu1.JT1bp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7815 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dave DeLeo wrote: > > I am trying to close the loop using N gauge model railroad track as greg > had suggested earlier today. I have an oval with 9 3/4" radius loops > (the tightest turn I could get in N gauge)and a straight piece of track > through the ramps rather than U channel (much smoother and easier to > work with). At the end of the ramp the track is nothched and bent down > at an angle to allow it to release while still maintaining some forward > momentum. (sort of like Greg's S cut in the U channel) > > I am using arrays of Radio Shack magnets 5 long by 3 wide with a steel > backing strip for one ramp, and for the other a 4X3 magnet arrays w/ > steel strip (radio shack ran out of magnets, I have to get more tomorrow > and lengthen that array to match the first one). I get about 1cm lift > on a 16mm ball. Without magnets a ball released from the top of one > ramp will start to climb the next ramp by itself. But the problem > arises when I put in the magnets. The ball climbs the first ramp w/ no > problem, but when it is released there is enough drawback to slow the > ball down preventing it from reaching the start of the next ramp.(it > only gets about halfway around the top half of the curve I have spent > several hours playing with the adjustments but haven't had any luck. > > I've attached a quick sketch of what my loop looks like. > > If anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate them. > > Thanks in advance, > Dave DeLeo Hi Dave, I suggest you use the flexible "N" gauge track. Fewer joint, better for a low energy return system. Ths smaller the losses in the return track, the less the lift height required on the ramps. My return track will work quite well with a lift of only 1.5mm. I could probably get down to 1mm with a rebuild. Work on the return track first. Try to get as small as possible lift at the top end. Even 0.5mm can divide success / failure' Then go for a clean rollaway on the ramps and you are there! Tomorrow I will release more adjustment hints. Your answer should be in there. Best Regards, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 08:13:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA19707; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: From: jlogajan skypoint.com (John Logajan) Subject: Re: Re EarthTech's Ragland cell To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:03:02 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <970603083803_1558957394 emout03.mail.aol.com> from "Tstolper@aol.com" at Jun 3, 97 08:38:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dovjK2.0.qp4.P93bp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7817 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Stolper wrote: > If Ragland has been working with an open cell, then working with a closed > cell is a big change in his protocol. I don't really understand why closing > the cell should make a difference, either, but I've heard repeatedly that it > can. I can think of a couple of reasons -- neither of them good. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 09:08:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA28059; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:56:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706031556.IAA16000 germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"CHXan1.0.Js6.Ex3bp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7818 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:02 PM 6/2/97 -0400, Francis J. Stenger wrote: >Rick Monteverde wrote: >> >> Frank - >> >> I think we need to be very careful, these things are very interesting and >> even compelling, but until we've got the thing spinning for hours on our >> workbenches, we might not be any closer than anyone else ever was. They've >> never worked before, AFAIK. >> > >I agree Rick! This evening I set up one of your sawtooth rogues with >12 magnets which I think are identical to yours. (Radio Shack?) >I had 6 magnets on each side of my 12 mm Al rail and my 1.5 inch steel >ball. The magnets were "piggy-back" with about 1/4 inch overlap. >With the rail dead level I noticed the following: >(Note, this was a tight packing with the magnets in contact and the >inside corner of the magnets clearing the ball only by about 1/8 inch.) > > 1. The ball would enter from a dead stop and move through 5 > null points (blue holes?). > 2. The ball would NOT exit but bounced off the sixth null and > oscillated a while - finally captured in one of the nulls. > 3. The BALL WOULD NOT START FROM AN INTERIOR NULL POINT! > If I slowly pushed it past a null point, it would settle > into the next one. > 4. So, the ball DID traverse to the end IF started in the fringe > field at EITHER END of the array. (from a stop!) How did you arrange your sawtooth magnets, like a "V" (see A below) or a lamba (see B below)? I tried both and got the "V" design to work, as I wrote to Rick. The ball travel from left to right. /////// \\\\\\\\ A ===o====> worked B ====o====> Didn't work \\\\\\\ //////// >I get the feeling that if I had a big circle of these sawtooth >configured magnets that THE BALL WOULD NOT CONTINUE TO TRAVERSE. > >Linkers of SMOT ramps might try to start the balls from an INTERIOR >ramp. It would be interesting to know if the ball would start from such >a point! Of course, if an elevation gain is confirmed, I can't see >why a roll-a-round would not close the loop. BUT, IT STILL DRIVES ME >CRAZY!! In SMOT, I found (and probably others) that the ball will not start from the interior of the arrays. It needs to be sucked into the field. The same occurrs with diagram B above but would not traverse more than 5 magnets in the array. But with diagram A, the ball only needs to be in the array to start and would not start if outside the field. This is big difference and unique that the ball can start anywhere in the array field and will always travel toward the end (toward the right in A diagram). > >I agree that it is MOST IMPORTANT to try to replicate Greg's results. >If he's right, then we need to REMODEL physics! > >Frank Stenger Hi Frank, If you have the time you might want to try the V array. I did it by flipping the array over and putting the ball inside the field to start it moving. I hope this helps. This also gave me a break from my SMOT unit. In the linking of two ramps I need Blue tack or something to hold the arrays in place and for adjustments. I'm still having problems in the two ramp mag arrays physically linking and need to fasten them so they don't interfer with each other. It is challenging though. :) Best Regards, Michael Randall From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 10:03:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA05131; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: 03 Jun 97 12:45:12 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: (Lack of) Progress Message-ID: <970603164511_100433.1541_BHG94-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"DwXbz1.0.-F1.kh4bp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7819 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A brief break from SMOTting, the thing is very fiddly. Truth is that if anything I'm going backwards today - probably because Soo is much better at adjusting ramps than I am, and she's away. A few comments. Thanks to Greg for the S-exit reminder. I must say I find it easier to file them myself than try to grind the things - and filing them isn't easy either. I examined my ball-catch ball carefully, and found it was not of the same quality as real bearing balls (it has a lumpy finish) so I got a few real ones in the same size. The ball-catch one is unmagnetiseable, but it is possible to make the 'real' ones very slightly magnetised by bouncing them up and down for quite a while on some NdFeB magnets. It takes a lot of effort, and you do need very powerful magnets to affect them. I can't see this as a significant factor. Eddy currents - Barry's estimation is impressive, I would guess it to be on the high side, based on the way a ball will oscillate up and down a ramp before it settles. However, that oscillation is visibly being damped, and I wish I had glazed ferrite balls. Eddy currents very likely *are* the dominant loss, though. Heating effects always seem tiny compared with mechanical ones, but they are very 'energy draining' - think of a watt of sound compared with a watt of heat. Anyway, I think we all have to agree that if the SMOT sends a steel ball around a full circuit a few times, then something very peculiar is happening. I still find I'm puzzled by the claim that the simulation done to all the standard rules implies O-U. Is this some breaking of symmetry, or what the hell does it imply? ZPF? If so, why? Or do the rules (which supposedly stick to the C of E principle) permit it? Is this not a paradox? Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 10:04:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA05613; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:56:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:56:33 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970603000927.00b22d04 mail.localaccess.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 06:55:14 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Smot thoughts Resent-Message-ID: <"jRMWn1.0.bN1._o4bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7820 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy - > BTW: Is it a wise idea to distinguish between > the "conventional" and ZPE power units? Well, I *was* just trying to make a joke there on Greg, but I think Mpower gives a couple of good reasons why it actually might be a idea worth considering. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 11:33:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA18034; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:20:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:20:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706031819.TAA31755 tycho.global.net.uk> From: "Peter King & Andrew Marks" To: Subject: SMOT kits Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:18:39 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MGv6w3.0.eP4.h16bp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7821 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Greg, Has the SMOT kit been tested by independent people yet, like Jean-Louis ? Are they available yet ? How many have you sold ? I want to buy a kit from you as I have been experimenting with various magnets and ramps but with only a small amount of success and I want to take a big jump forward by using something that has been already de-bugged. I have got a lift of 8mm using a 19mm ball bearing and 12 x 2cm ferrite boron magnets. I have found a source of the much better sintered antisotropic rare earth Neodynium Iron Boron magnets, but these are not cheap. The setup is very sensitive like you say and if is out by a fraction of a mm then the ball just hangs at the end of the ramp, even if you give a good push to start it rolling. Cheers. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 11:43:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA24531; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:39:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:39:14 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <339464C7.72F0 math.ucla.edu> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 11:39:03 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Estimate of Eddy Losses in SMOT References: <33938019.78BD math.ucla.edu> <3393A281.225@skypoint.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"64pog2.0.7_5.GJ6bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7822 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Since my analysis shows that Eddy current in the track (and to a lesser extent in the ball) are a large loss term, the natural thing to do is actually measure this effect. The simple experiment is to make a straight track, put magnets along the side *parallel* to the track, MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM <- mags ------------------- <-- track * ball ------------------- < --track MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM <- mags and roll the ball into the track with some known energy (say, by letting it roll down an onramp of a known elevation), and see how long (dist, time) it travels before it comes to a stop. Then, do the same experiment with (a) no magnets to subrtract of frictional effects, and/or (b) a noncunducting track (glass, hard wood or plastic) and magnets present so there are no losses in the track (but other mag effects still in place). If the ball enters the track with kinetic energy (1/2) C m v^2 (C = ( 1 + 3/10) due to rotational kinetic energy), we have dE/dt = power loss to eddies = F0 v (since its proportional to v) || C mv dv/dt => dv/dt = F0/(Cm) so that the ball decelerates at constant rate due to eddy losses. Thus either the stopping time, or the distance traveled, or a direct measurment of ball de-acceleration can be used to measure the "eddy current force" F0 (which is a constant). -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 12:25:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA00151; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:22:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:22:06 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:28:08 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: freenrg-l eskimo.com cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re Tesla: Looking for Answers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jC2HG.0.H2.Tx6bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7823 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 3 Jun 1997, Evan Soule wrote: big snip------------- > all matter in the universe in any phase of its existence from its very > formation to its ultimate disintegration." > bigger snip----------- > "Questioned further, Tesla would only say that .... the apparatus for > manufacturing this energy and transforming it would be of ideal simplicity > with both mechanical and electrical features. Tesla said the preliminary > cost might be thought too high, but this would be overcome, for the > installation would be both permanent and indestructible." ------------------ biggest snip > __________________________________ > > Some questions which come to my mind in reading the above are: snip-snip #1-6 of 'What's it all about....'snip-snip > 7) What did Tesla mean when he stated that the installation of the "totally > new source of power" would be "both _permanent_ and _indestructible_."? > > Evan Soule' Evan, From the 'Smoke' I've seen, umm, SMOT I've seen #7 is an easy one! :) It is both "Permanent" because it can "FLOAT" in its enviroment = NO WEAR, NO TEAR.. and "Indestructible" because there is NO Depletion of the System! (Except for the sic/tesla 'Ultimate Disentigration') like the elusive neutrino decay. ------------ AND it IS as simple and observable as the SMOT1 demonstrates. Its There, I have 'seen' it (minds eye).. Tesla WAS RIGHT!! 'Floating' non-touching mechanical components will be as we see as the 'old version' of an atom.. electron spinning merrily around & around :) Not coming into contact with anything to 'wear it out' hence = permanent! The 'indestructible' part does have a dead - end though if you believe in a 'closed universe' however.... but, until then WE'VE got FIRE ummm -Blue Hole Power- umm Don't know what to call it, BUT WE'VE GOT IT BY IT's PERVERBIALS NOW! :) You guys can 'TAKE' all the electrical dreams of Tesla OUT of IT as you can manage.. It all reconverts 'back' to the ether anyway -Thank you!- Round & Round & Round we GO! Makes ones Mind as giddy as a school kids again doesn't it!! Inside a 'huge' round container lay the 'V' magnetic (NON-depleating) rails - with a non-touching 'floating' rotor. NOTE, gravity is NOT NEEDED for this! Imagine a huge 'Floating Rotor' (big as a Super-dome Roof top if you like) suspended in position by all the forces that are acting on it. (we've (vortex-l groupies) mentioned gravitional, K, Momentum, Magnetic Attractions/Repulsion, V,C & E..(maybe even some others we haven't even thought about yet), But there is this Huge Rotor, spinning merrily around & around & around :) happy to follow its forward path to the -Blue Holes- 'refreshing Null' +/- (to balance things out (everything *IS* conserved!)) EVERYBODY WINS TILL the END of TIME! (including the RMOD!) Forever & Ever, Amen! Is this going to help the Country's $ Deficit -or what?- ha ha We're Snowballing NOW!! "Thanks Greg!" It *IS* there! I too have 'seen it!' Build guys, Build! se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 12:35:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA03103; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:31:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:31:02 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:29:02 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Cunningham Patent 4,443,776 Resent-Message-ID: <"9h7z42.0.Jm.r37bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7824 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Cunningham Patent 4,443,776 located by Hamdi earlier, lays out the magnetic slabs in an axial pattern, so that two such wheels in parallel planes and free to rotate coaxially relative to each other will spontaeously rotate, and thus, I assume, generate energy. In fact, the patent states "The rotary motion created by the present device can be used to drive another device or apparatus requiring rotatry motion ...". Hamdi hit the nail on the head. The Cunningham Patent 4,443,776 is a pair of "Rogue SMOT" magnetic actuators laid out radially on the surface of two wheels. See the similarity, Rogue SMOT: /////// \\\\\\\\ A ===o====> worked B ====o====> Didn't work \\\\\\\ //////// Cunningham shows: | /////// Wheeel 1 | \\\\\\\ Wheel 2 | or: | /////// Wheeel 1 | /////// Wheel 2 | If there is anything to the Cunningham patent, then there should be a longitudinal force between the magnet arrays of the "Rogue SMOT". Of special interest to me is the prospect that the magnetic slabs can be similarly laid out on the outer surface of a cylinder to make an armature, and a similar arrangement made on an inward surface of a cylindrical stator. It appears this arrangement would fall outside the Cunningham patent. I don't know if some other similar patent has claimed that configuration. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 12:46:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA00130; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706031938.PAA20486 mail.enter.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Robert G. Flower" Organization: Applied Science Associates To: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com>, vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:13:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Where do simulations imply O/U ?? Reply-to: chronos enter.net Priority: normal In-reply-to: <970603164511_100433.1541_BHG94-1 CompuServe.COM> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Resent-Message-ID: <"l17-o.0.e1.OB7bp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7825 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 3 Jun 97 at 12:45, vortex-l eskimo.com wrote: > Date: 03 Jun 97 12:45:12 EDT > From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 CompuServe.COM> > To: Vortex > Subject: (Lack of) Progress > I still find I'm puzzled by the claim that the simulation done to > all the standard rules implies O-U. Is this some breaking of > symmetry, or what the hell does it imply? ZPF? If so, why? Or do > the rules (which supposedly stick to the C of E principle) permit > it? Is this not a paradox? Chris, I too would like to nail this down, so to speak. Can you (or anyone) mention any references to exactly *where* claims were made that "the simulation done to all the standard rules implies O-U" ?? Many people would very surprised if the *conventional* laws of electromagnetism contained a loophole which allowed the camel of non-conservation of energy to get its nose under the tent. HOWEVER: if it is actually possible to tap the ZPE as a hidden energy reservior (to "re-inflate" the electron spins, as suggested by Hal Puthoff, for instance), then this effect would almost certainly show up as EXTRA TERM(s) which must be added to the electromagnetic equations in their current form. Best regards, Bob Flower ======================================================= Robert G. Flower, Applied Science Associates Quality Control Engineering Instrumentation Systems - Technology Transfer ======================================================= From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 12:55:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA01252; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:45:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:45:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:51:14 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cunningham Patent 4,443,776 -FLOAT IT!- In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"6HNxF1.0.TJ.nH7bp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7826 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For you guys going RMOD too,... On Tue, 3 Jun 1997, Horace Heffner wrote: > > Hamdi hit the nail on the head. The Cunningham Patent 4,443,776 is a pair > of "Rogue SMOT" magnetic actuators laid out radially on the surface of two > wheels. See the similarity, Rogue SMOT: > > > /////// \\\\\\\\ > A ===o====> worked B ====o====> Didn't work > \\\\\\\ //////// > > > Cunningham shows: > > | > /////// Wheeel 1 > | > \\\\\\\ Wheel 2 > | > > or: > > | > /////// Wheeel 1 > | > /////// Wheel 2 > | > > If there is anything to the Cunningham patent, then there should be a > longitudinal force between the magnet arrays of the "Rogue SMOT". > > Of special interest to me is the prospect that the magnetic slabs can be > similarly laid out on the outer surface of a cylinder to make an armature, > and a similar arrangement made on an inward surface of a cylindrical > stator. It appears this arrangement would fall outside the Cunningham > patent. I don't know if some other similar patent has claimed that > configuration. > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner Float the Axis with the same concepts and we have deleted gravity as a needed player.. (Gregs 'V' provides the direction and the -Blue-Hole- provides the 'Thrust' as it were! /////////// <========o=======> <--Floating axis' \\\\\\\\\\\ This deletes all mechanical frictions! No one said it would be 'easy', including Tesla, BUT IT IS SIMPLE :) se :) ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 13:27:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA13445; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:24:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:24:36 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:22:46 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: SMOT kits Resent-Message-ID: <"_2EyB2.0._H3.3s7bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7827 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 7:18 PM 6/3/97, Peter King & Andrew Marks wrote: >Hi Greg, > >Has the SMOT kit been tested by independent people yet, like Jean-Louis ? > >Are they available yet ? > >How many have you sold ? > >I want to buy a kit from you as I have been experimenting with various >magnets and ramps but with only a small amount of success and I want to >take a big jump forward by using something that has been already de-bugged. [snip] I am interested in a kit also, once there is independent confirmation of a closed loop. It seems like it would be very good if a number of people, especially those not presently having success, built from exactly the same materials. It is very good of you to offer a kit. Your kit doesn't appear to include the track though. Any chance you would offer a kit that includes the track, so we would all be using the same material? My only interest is in a closed loop system. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 13:29:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA06906; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:22:20 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Direct flux interaction with ZPE Resent-Message-ID: <"8pvIe1.0.jh1.ks7bp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7828 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The following is a suggestion that there may be a ZPE interactio directly with magnetic flux, and that this interaction may account for various EM effects. Of special interest is the place where two independent flux lines meet to form and angle (X1 and X3 below): o o N o o o o o o o o o o X1 X2 X3 o o o o o o o o o o N o o In the case shown, where the lines are in the same direction, a mutually repulsive force occurs between the two force lines, especially in the region of direct contact X2. It is of interest if a Casimere force can be exerted between the flux lines (tubes) in the regions of close proximity X1 and X3. If the angle at X1 and X2 is not identical, then there may be an imbalance in this Casimere force in the X axis direction, providing a direct mechanism for tapping ZPE. It is of interest to me that if the lines of force were in opposite (attracting) directions, N and S instead of N and N as shown, it appears to me the lines of force can be attracted, by a zipper like force, to the point of fully overlapping. It is this zipper like force that perhaps gives the false impression lines of force from two magnets can "cut and join", which I find nonsensical. It seems ar more logical to me that the lines of force (flux tubes) can simply stretch into a fully bonded configuration. Just some more food for thought. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 13:37:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA14991; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:30:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:30:55 -0700 Date: 03 Jun 97 16:23:47 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: , Vortex Subject: Re: Where do simulations imply O/U ?? Message-ID: <970603202347_100433.1541_BHG101-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"kBIqM.0.7g3.zx7bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7829 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Robert, > Can you (or anyone) mention any references to exactly *where* > claims were made that "the simulation done to all the standard > rules implies O-U" ?? Greg may wish to amplify his previous comments, which are not so much specific claims as casual references go his design methods. For example, he has done the notorious "blue hole" magnetic flux simulations, and these in themselves make me twitch slightly. Then he referred specifically to his RMOD 2, of which he said that the simulations were looking good. I don't see how or why he would be using non-standard simulations for mag fields, indeed there was some early discussion of which of the usual packages was most cost-effective. Now, I would not think that one package would simulate both magnetic and gravitational fields, but it is pretty clear that you can take gravity as a constant vector in these matters. Perhaps I've extrapolated Greg's comments too much, but he has been quick to correct errors and he's not commented on my interpretation of his methods. > Many people would very surprised if the *conventional* laws of > electromagnetism contained a loophole which allowed the camel of > non-conservation of energy to get its nose under the tent. I think that Martin Sevior is probably right when he says it looks as if the SMOT would be just another example of many previous erosions of the Principle. I too would be surprised at so flagrant an example, especially since anyone could have done this back in 1783, by buying some of Hannah Shaw's magnets. > HOWEVER: if it is actually possible to tap the ZPE as a hidden > energy reservior (to "re-inflate" the electron spins, as suggested > by Hal Puthoff, for instance), then this effect would almost > certainly show up as EXTRA TERM(s) which must be added to the > electromagnetic equations in their current form. Extra terms... Well, that would be nice. Neat and tidy, I'd like that. Thanks for your comments, Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 13:57:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA19745; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:54:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:54:30 -0700 Date: 03 Jun 97 16:53:01 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Chevron arrnagement Message-ID: <970603205301_100433.1541_BHG67-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"P42V83.0.Rq4.5I8bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7830 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Rick, Hamdi, I don't understand this chevron arrangement which Rick (or Hamdi even more - and Hamdi should not apologise for his English, instead we Anglophones should try to keep our written text fairly formal) claim give thrust. Could one of you please give more details, or correct my understanding? I think that the actual arrangement is that the magnets are in contact but only along part of their length - like 15% of it. ________________________ | NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN | | SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS | --------------------------- | NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN | | SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS | --------------------------- | NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN | | SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS | ------------------------ And these lie along one side of the track such that the distance between the centre of each magnet from the track is the same. On the other side of the track, at the same distance, is a similar row with the other pole closest to the track. Is this right? I've fiddled with this a few times, but I see nothing odd happening. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 14:06:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA22087; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:04:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:04:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3394754F.9DD33F43 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 23:49:35 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Re:Cunningham Patent 4,443,776 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ODW6S2.0.1P5.SR8bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7831 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: No, I am not, but another friend of us is going hit the NAIL. Horace we are complementing us. I was not aware of this patent. The letter below is dated 4 days before I subscribed to vortex. And I found this letter now in my hard disk archived as vtx9703.txt a huge archive of 1282Kb. After reading the mail, may one can ask to Greg an interesting question. --------------34B42D48736 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <3327C524.3B7D microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 18:43:08 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Forget Hamel's Spinner, Try This Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Forget Hamel's Spinner. Check out Patent 4,443,776, David Cunningham, Rotary Magnet Device. It's a permanent magnet motor that looks like it should work. It produces a contiguous "B" field using permanent magnets (something I thought, until today, wasn't possible). It even claims to rotate in the claim section. Construction is simple, but not easy to quickly duplicate. Lets see who can duplicate it first. Comments? -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson microtronics.com.au Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax 61 18 833 461 Mobile --------------34B42D48736-- Regards, Handi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 14:17:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA25941; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:15:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:15:31 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:20:17 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Estimate of Eddy Losses in SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"1Y0Ld2.0.lI6.gb8bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7833 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace - > The N poles should be facing inwards on the left > side of the track. This is one of the things I've been wondering about too! Having a good set of 'standard' SMOT ramps and checking out details like this is the way to go. I'm still just on "phase 1". Solar water heater needed fixing yesterday, now I'm behind on my "real" work. For me, SMOTs will have to wait this week. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 14:18:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA25781; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:15:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:15:23 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199706030620.XAA02657 denmark.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:11:22 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"HVng7.0.eI6.gb8bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7832 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael - Thanks for sharing your results on these arrays. The direction the ball travels through your arrays is not what I expected. Interesting about the habits of the ball regarding where it gets stuck, too. I was playing with this a little bit last night. My SMOT balls are getting magnetized, and the magnetism was definitely affecting their behavior strongly where the fields were weak or well balanced. I need some ferrite filled spheres or something, because magnetized balls give bizarre results in weak-field experiments. Could you have been seeing some effects due to this? Check your SMOT balls lately? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 14:30:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA29262; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:27:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:27:18 -0700 Message-ID: <33948C5E.4079 interlaced.net> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 17:27:58 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! References: <199706031556.IAA16000 germany.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kdYw83.0.497.rm8bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7834 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > > > How did you arrange your sawtooth magnets, like a "V" (see A below) or a > lamba (see B below)? I tried both and got the "V" design to work, as I wrote > to Rick. The ball travel from left to right. > /////// \\\\\\\\ > A ===o====> worked B ====o====> Didn't work > \\\\\\\ //////// > OK, Mike - what's the difference in the above layouts - shouldn't the "B" configuration work if you let the ball move from right to left? Thats what I tried - the thing actually worked about the same from a start from either end. The ball would traverse 5 nulls and hang in the 6th at EITHER end. I'm using a 28 inch aluminum carpenter's level to set up the base board. > > In SMOT, I found (and probably others) that the ball will not start from the > interior of the arrays. It needs to be sucked into the field. The same > occurrs with diagram B above but would not traverse more than 5 magnets in > the array. But with diagram A, the ball only needs to be in the array to > start and would not start if outside the field. This is big difference and > unique that the ball can start anywhere in the array field and will always > travel toward the end (toward the right in A diagram). Mike, if I found this condition I WOULD PROCEED TO GET ENOUGH MAGNETS FOR A CLOSED CIRCLE AND WIP UP A ROTARY RIG!! > > Hi Frank, > > If you have the time you might want to try the V array. I did it by flipping > the array over and putting the ball inside the field to start it moving. I > hope this helps. Again, Mike - isn't this the same as starting the ball from the other end of my level track? It also bothers me that the ball can not be started from "some" interior point in a 4-SMOT linkup and complete the trip to the end!! Someone will have to explain to me why 360 SMOT ramps in a huge, level circle with only 1 degree of "link angle" will not start from SOME point in that circle. I'm not asking for ANY net lift here - just continual motion! Here's my frustrating points: 1. Will such a 360 SMOT, 1 degree link-angle closed circle of linked SMOTS operate continuously ON THE LEVEL WITH ZERO NET LIFT? 2. If it will, then I assume you must give it a "shove" to start it at some point? Or, can you just place it in the optimum start point at the entrance to one of the ramps? 3. Wouldn't an attempt to start up a 4-SMOT straight link-up from some interior point shed some insight on this question? Have any Vortexians achieved a solid roll-a-way of the ball on a track at the INITIAL height - I mean one or two array lengths on a set-up surface checked with an accurate level?? Again, Mike, - if you have a continuous one-way force in a rogue array, why not go rotary? Good luck - Frustrated Frank S. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 14:52:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA01390; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:49:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:49:23 -0700 Message-ID: <33949189.5F9D interlaced.net> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 17:50:01 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Chevron arrnagement References: <970603205301_100433.1541_BHG67-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e-gtv3.0.eL.Y59bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7835 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > I think that the actual arrangement is that the magnets are in contact > but only along part of their length - like 15% of it. > > ________________________ > | NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN | > | SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS | > --------------------------- > | NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN | > | SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS | > --------------------------- > | NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN | > | SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS | > ------------------------ > > And these lie along one side of the track such that the distance between > the centre of each magnet from the track is the same. On the other > side of the track, at the same distance, is a similar row with the other > pole closest to the track. > > Is this right? I've fiddled with this a few times, but I see nothing > odd happening. > > Chris Chris, you describe the setup I tried with 6-per-side (12 total) ceramic magnets, 48mm x 22mm x 9mm. I made a wooden channel along each side of my rail to hold the magnets in a uniform configuration. The ball would enter either end and move to the other end and hang - no exit. Check Michael Randall's post about getting a one-way force on the ball over the interior of a similar chevron setup - if I understand his system correctly. Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 14:55:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA01786; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:52:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:52:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3394914F.7E16 microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 07:19:03 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! References: <199706031556.IAA16000 germany.it.earthlink.net> <33948C5E.4079@interlaced.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wDOhH1.0.jR.389bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7836 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Francis J. Stenger wrote: > > Michael Randall wrote: > > > > > > How did you arrange your sawtooth magnets, like a "V" (see A below) or a > > lamba (see B below)? I tried both and got the "V" design to work, as I wrote > > to Rick. The ball travel from left to right. > > /////// \\\\\\\\ > > A ===o====> worked B ====o====> Didn't work > > \\\\\\\ //////// > > > > OK, Mike - what's the difference in the above layouts - shouldn't the > "B" configuration work if you let the ball move from right to left? > Thats what I tried - the thing actually worked about the same from > a start from either end. The ball would traverse 5 nulls and hang in > the 6th at EITHER end. I'm using a 28 inch aluminum carpenter's level > to set up the base board. > > > > In SMOT, I found (and probably others) that the ball will not start from the > > interior of the arrays. It needs to be sucked into the field. Linked SMOT ramps will self start from an interior position. To do this requires the inter ramp linking distance to be closed up somewhat. The SMOT ramp design as presented has been setup to allow incremental height gain by linking. It never was my intention to do a continual loop of SMOT Ramps. I have never tried that. >> The same > > occurrs with diagram B above but would not traverse more than 5 magnets in > > the array. But with diagram A, the ball only needs to be in the array to > > start and would not start if outside the field. This is big difference and > > unique that the ball can start anywhere in the array field and will always > > travel toward the end (toward the right in A diagram). > > Mike, if I found this condition I WOULD PROCEED TO GET ENOUGH MAGNETS > FOR A CLOSED CIRCLE AND WIP UP A ROTARY RIG!! > > > > Hi Frank, > > > > If you have the time you might want to try the V array. I did it by flipping > > the array over and putting the ball inside the field to start it moving. I > > hope this helps. > > Again, Mike - isn't this the same as starting the ball from the other > end of my level track? > > It also bothers me that the ball can not be started from "some" interior > point in a 4-SMOT linkup and complete the trip to the end!! Someone > will have to explain to me why 360 SMOT ramps in a huge, level circle > with only 1 degree of "link angle" will not start from SOME point in > that circle. I'm not asking for ANY net lift here - just continual > motion! Here's my frustrating points: I believe they would, but the inter ramp linking distance would be required to close up somewhat. > 1. Will such a 360 SMOT, 1 degree link-angle closed circle of > linked SMOTS operate continuously ON THE LEVEL WITH ZERO > NET LIFT? I believe so, even though I have never tried this. > 2. If it will, then I assume you must give it a "shove" to start > it at some point? Or, can you just place it in the optimum > start point at the entrance to one of the ramps? No shove required. They can self start. > 3. Wouldn't an attempt to start up a 4-SMOT straight link-up > from some interior point shed some insight on this question? The SMOT design is aimed at linking to provide incremental drop height increase to get a rollaway and allow use of the "N" gauge return track. > Have any Vortexians achieved a solid roll-a-way of the ball on a track > at the INITIAL height - I mean one or two array lengths on a set-up > surface checked with an accurate level?? > > Again, Mike, - if you have a continuous one-way force in a rogue array, > why not go rotary? > > Good luck - Frustrated Frank S. Hi Frank, Guess how I felt as I developed the SMOT. Best Regards, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 15:07:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA05068; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:00:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:00:39 -0700 Message-ID: <33949389.4D25 microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 07:28:33 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT kits References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"f70kw2.0.kE1.-F9bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7838 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > At 7:18 PM 6/3/97, Peter King & Andrew Marks wrote: > >Hi Greg, > > > >Has the SMOT kit been tested by independent people yet, like Jean-Louis ? > > > >Are they available yet ? > > > >How many have you sold ? > > > >I want to buy a kit from you as I have been experimenting with various > >magnets and ramps but with only a small amount of success and I want to > >take a big jump forward by using something that has been already de-bugged. > [snip] > > I am interested in a kit also, once there is independent confirmation of a > closed loop. It seems like it would be very good if a number of people, > especially those not presently having success, built from exactly the same > materials. It is very good of you to offer a kit. Your kit doesn't appear > to include the track though. Any chance you would offer a kit that > includes the track, so we would all be using the same material? My only > interest is in a closed loop system. > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner Hi Horace, I am looking at including the "N" gauge rail. Problem is posting size. My existing SMOY kits are VERY compact. I designed it all to pack together in a very small space. Thats how I can include postal air costs in the price. I am trying to hold the price constant AND include the track. The track makes it harded to achieve a small compact package. I have found the smaller the package the more likely it is to arrive at the other end undamaged. But its only another problem to solve. Will get back in a day or so. Best Regards, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 15:13:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA23204; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: 03 Jun 97 17:53:05 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Message-ID: <970603215305_100433.1541_BHG46-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"V28Ji2.0.Rg5.aC9bp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7837 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Frank, > I'm using a 28 inch aluminum carpenter's level to set up the base > board. I wouldn't trust that. With a well-polished track and a good ball you can detect 1mm in a metre with no difficulty whatever. Just roll the ball back and forth. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 15:14:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA26606; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:11:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:11:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33948501.F423CD9A verisoft.com.tr> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 00:56:33 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Re:Chevron arrangement X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"k1DGT3.0.PV6.fP9bp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7839 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Chris Tinsley wrote: > Could one of you please give more details, or correct my > understanding? I think that the actual arrangement is that > the magnets are in contact but only along part of their > length - like 15% of it. That you described seems right. By the way I am giving the details of my setup: (I am going expert with ascii graphics.) _ _ _ / \ / \ / \ / \/ \/ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ NS \ NS \ NS \ . . . . \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ /\ /\ / \_/ \_/ \_/ ________________________________ magnetic _ wall <=== (_) start ________________________________ _ _ _ / \ / \ / \ / \/ \/ \ / / / / / / / / / SN / SN / SN / / / / / . . . . . . / / / / \ /\ /\ / \_/ \_/ \_/ Actually the ascii above gives good information about angles and the proportion of the tooth. magnets are original rectangular shaped, not truncated as shown. Clearance from closest point of magnets to the ball should be in range 3mm-10mm. After 2cm the effect is greatly reduced. This setup is suitable for 10x25x40 or 9x22x48 sized magnets. I don't know if the effect is reproducible with smaller sized magnets. The absolute meaning of the magnetic poles it not necessary. All N's may me swapped with S's. Ball is pulled to the end with a continuous force. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 15:31:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA15046; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:28:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:28:16 -0700 Message-ID: <33949A0A.1611 microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 07:56:18 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT kits References: <199706031819.TAA31755 tycho.global.net.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l0WT21.0.lg3.uf9bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7841 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Peter King & Andrew Marks wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > Has the SMOT kit been tested by independent people yet, like Jean-Louis ? I have not shipped any kits yet. Tomorrow I get the heat formed bases. Many have built from the plans and the their SMOT ramp seem to work. The kits will come "adjusted". The pin holes to use will be marked for each ramp. The magnet placings will be marked. The magnets will be labeled as to where they go (Left, Right, Which ramp). The magnets are different and are sometimes not interchangeable without adjustments being made. In the SMOT kits, I am trying to overcome as many of the adjustment problems as I can. Some adjustment skills will still be needed though. Assembly is quick and simple. 1) Mount the rail in the base. 2) Put the pins in the designated adjustment holes. 3) Lay the pre built magnet arrays on the side supports as indicated. 4) Load a ball and release. 5) Ball climbs ramp and drops off the end. That my design goal. > Are they available yet ? In a few days. > How many have you sold ? I have orders for around 15 kits at present. I have purchased materials for 100 kits. > I want to buy a kit from you as I have been experimenting with various > magnets and ramps but with only a small amount of success and I want to > take a big jump forward by using something that has been already de-bugged. > I have got a lift of 8mm using a 19mm ball bearing and 12 x 2cm ferrite > boron magnets. OK. > I have found a source of the much better sintered antisotropic rare earth > Neodynium Iron Boron magnets, but these are not cheap. Ask Epitaxy, power is NOT the answer. In fact the use of powerful magnets makes things very difficult. Use cheap fridge magnets. > The setup is very sensitive like you say and if is out by a fraction of a > mm then the ball just hangs at the end of the ramp, even if you give a good > push to start it rolling. Sounds like you have the top spacing too close or you need to slide the magnets up the ramp a bit. If this still doesn't help, try reducing the lift height. There is a max lift height that you just can't go above. I am working to be able to define how that ties into the other parameters. The idea on the exit seems to be to just roll the ball up to the edge of the "Blue Hole" and the slide the ball down the exit face and under. The "Blue Hole" is actually a smashed sphere hovering in space at the end of the magnet arrays > Cheers. Hi Peter and Andrew, Hope the above helps, I will update by hint and adjustment list later today. You will find ideas to achieve your exit. Best Regards, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 15:33:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA14987; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:28:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:28:05 -0700 Message-ID: <33949593.78D microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 07:37:15 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cunningham Patent 4,443,776 References: <3394754F.9DD33F43 verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gCrlR3.0.Of3.mf9bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7840 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hamdi Ucar wrote: > > No, I am not, but another friend of us is going hit the NAIL. > > Horace we are complementing us. > > I was not aware of this patent. The letter below is dated 4 days before > I subscribed to vortex. And I found this letter now in my hard disk > archived as vtx9703.txt a huge archive of 1282Kb. > > After reading the mail, may one can ask to Greg an interesting question. > > --------------34B42D48736 > Content-Type: message/rfc822 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Disposition: inline > > Message-ID: <3327C524.3B7D microtronics.com.au> > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 18:43:08 +0930 > From: Greg Watson > Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au > Organization: Greg Watson Consulting > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: freenrg-l eskimo.com > Subject: Forget Hamel's Spinner, Try This > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hi All, > > Forget Hamel's Spinner. Check out Patent 4,443,776, David Cunningham, > Rotary Magnet Device. It's a permanent magnet motor that looks like it > should work. It produces a contiguous "B" field using permanent magnets > (something I thought, until today, wasn't possible). It even claims to > rotate in the claim section. Construction is simple, but not easy to > quickly duplicate. Lets see who can duplicate it first. > > Comments? > > -- > Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting gwatson microtronics.com.au > Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax > 61 18 833 461 Mobile > > --------------34B42D48736-- > > Regards, > > Handi Ucar Hi Handi, The above mentioned patent us one of a multiple lot I posted to the group as interesing patents to study. The list was composed by Fred Epps and myself. I have also posted other references to this patent. I did a few QField sims of the proposed magnet arrangement and came to the conclusion that it probably would not work. I have voiced this opinion here before. I could be wrong. What the inventor is trying to do, should in theory work. My QField sims showed not a contigous "B" field, but a series of opposite direction nodes. If QField is right, these nodes would nullify any rotational operation. But, as I always say. Give it a go. Build a device and study the results no matter what happens! Best Regards, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 15:39:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA28415; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:32:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:32:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33949A19.4B4E ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 17:26:33 -0500 From: Craig Haynie Reply-To: ccHaynie ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Hello Greg References: <33948501.F423CD9A verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dsb081.0.ox6.hj9bp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7842 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Greg! So, Greg, do you wake up every morning, run over to your workbench, put the ball back on your ramps and let it cycle a few times, just to make sure it still works? I know that's what I would do if I found an effect like this. :) Seriously, though, you ought to consider finding a place to keep it. Try to run it for as long as possible. See if it runs out. See if the ball magnetizes, or other anomalies occur in use. It could lead to a deeper understanding, or perhaps a simpler explanation of what's going on. Hasta, Craig Haynie ccHaynie ix.netcom.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 15:39:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA28435; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:29:32 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Cunningham Patent 4,443,776 -FLOAT IT!- Resent-Message-ID: <"sIyEG2.0.Dy6.oj9bp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7843 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 1:51 PM 6/3/97, Steve Ekwall wrote: [snip] >Float the Axis with the same concepts and we have deleted gravity as a >needed player.. (Gregs 'V' provides the direction and the -Blue-Hole- >provides the 'Thrust' as it were! > > /////////// > <========o=======> <--Floating axis' > \\\\\\\\\\\ > >This deletes all mechanical frictions! >No one said it would be 'easy', including Tesla, BUT IT IS SIMPLE :) > >se :) >------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ >-=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 It would be an interesting experiment to try a superconducting ring over a ring of diagonal slabs organized like in the Cunningham patent. You wouldn't need both rows of magnets, only the underneath row. Also, it would be very interesting to try a superconducting ball. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 15:52:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA22470; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:49:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:49:08 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:26:53 -0500 (GMT) From: Carlos Henry Castano To: grupo de discusion Subject: The E-mail of Edmund Storms. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"U-6C63.0.iU5.Tz9bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7847 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: can someone of vortex give me the E-mail of Edmund Storms? Thank you. Carlos Henry Casta~o. _________________________________________________________________________ My actual E-mail is dinamic but temporal, I have other permanent E-mail, if you e-mail rebound please try again to: chcastan hotmail.com ________________________________ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 15:52:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA18323; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:36:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:36:06 -0700 Message-ID: <33949ACC.4DB0 microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 07:59:32 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! References: <970603215305_100433.1541_BHG46-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wJdqn1.0.0U4.In9bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7844 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > Frank, > > > I'm using a 28 inch aluminum carpenter's level to set up the base > > board. > > I wouldn't trust that. With a well-polished track and a good ball you > can detect 1mm in a metre with no difficulty whatever. Just roll the > ball back and forth. > > Chris Hi Chris, I agree! Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 15:56:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA22680; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:49:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:49:45 -0700 Message-ID: <33949E56.3AA9 microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 08:14:38 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! References: <199706031556.IAA16000 germany.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fUCDv.0.uX5.0-9bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7848 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > > At 07:02 PM 6/2/97 -0400, Francis J. Stenger wrote: > >Rick Monteverde wrote: > >> > >> Frank - > >> > >> I think we need to be very careful, these things are very interesting and > >> even compelling, but until we've got the thing spinning for hours on our > >> workbenches, we might not be any closer than anyone else ever was. They've > >> never worked before, AFAIK. > >> > > > >I agree Rick! This evening I set up one of your sawtooth rogues with > >12 magnets which I think are identical to yours. (Radio Shack?) > >I had 6 magnets on each side of my 12 mm Al rail and my 1.5 inch steel > >ball. The magnets were "piggy-back" with about 1/4 inch overlap. > >With the rail dead level I noticed the following: > >(Note, this was a tight packing with the magnets in contact and the > >inside corner of the magnets clearing the ball only by about 1/8 inch.) > > > > 1. The ball would enter from a dead stop and move through 5 > > null points (blue holes?). > > 2. The ball would NOT exit but bounced off the sixth null and > > oscillated a while - finally captured in one of the nulls. > > 3. The BALL WOULD NOT START FROM AN INTERIOR NULL POINT! > > If I slowly pushed it past a null point, it would settle > > into the next one. > > 4. So, the ball DID traverse to the end IF started in the fringe > > field at EITHER END of the array. (from a stop!) > > How did you arrange your sawtooth magnets, like a "V" (see A below) or a > lamba (see B below)? I tried both and got the "V" design to work, as I wrote > to Rick. The ball travel from left to right. > /////// \\\\\\\\ > A ===o====> worked B ====o====> Didn't work > \\\\\\\ //////// > > >I get the feeling that if I had a big circle of these sawtooth > >configured magnets that THE BALL WOULD NOT CONTINUE TO TRAVERSE. > > > >Linkers of SMOT ramps might try to start the balls from an INTERIOR > >ramp. It would be interesting to know if the ball would start from such > >a point! Of course, if an elevation gain is confirmed, I can't see > >why a roll-a-round would not close the loop. BUT, IT STILL DRIVES ME > >CRAZY!! > > In SMOT, I found (and probably others) that the ball will not start from the > interior of the arrays. It needs to be sucked into the field. If you reduce the inter ramp linking distance, interior starts can be done. > The same > occurrs with diagram B above but would not traverse more than 5 magnets in > the array. But with diagram A, the ball only needs to be in the array to > start and would not start if outside the field. This is big difference and > unique that the ball can start anywhere in the array field and will always > travel toward the end (toward the right in A diagram). > > > >I agree that it is MOST IMPORTANT to try to replicate Greg's results. > >If he's right, then we need to REMODEL physics! > > > >Frank Stenger > > Hi Frank, > > If you have the time you might want to try the V array. I did it by flipping > the array over and putting the ball inside the field to start it moving. I > hope this helps. > > This also gave me a break from my SMOT unit. In the linking of two ramps I > need Blue tack or something to hold the arrays in place and for adjustments. > I'm still having problems in the two ramp mag arrays physically linking and > need to fasten them so they don't interfer with each other. It is > challenging though. :) > > Best Regards, > Michael Randall Hi Michael, Sounds like you are using different polarity arrays. SN SN SN SN SN SN NS NS NS NS NS NS instead of SN SN SN SN SN SN SN SN SN SN SN SN In the first arrangement, the arrays from two linked SMOT ramps will attract each other and in the second they will repel each other. The lower array arrangement is the one I use for linking. However I have experimented with the first, but not too far as the magnets from both arrays attract each other and lift off the side magnet supports. Using the first arrangement, I got much better linking results, the second linked ramp actually assists with the ball climbing the first ramp. But I went back to the second as I thought it would cause less problems overall. But hey, experiment with the first system. Just devise a way to hold the magnets to the magnet supports. Blu-Tack ......... why didn't I think of that! Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 15:57:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA24627; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:54:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:54:51 -0700 Message-ID: <3394A053.7788 microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 08:23:07 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hello Greg References: <33948501.F423CD9A verisoft.com.tr> <33949A19.4B4E@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Yw8xK1.0.b06.u2Abp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7849 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Craig Haynie wrote: > > Hello Greg! > > So, Greg, do you wake up every morning, run over to your workbench, put > the ball back on your ramps and let it cycle a few times, just to make > sure it still works? With my first RMOD, I got about 2 hours straight sleep over 4 days, checked it every two hours. It was my new baby. After a while, I moved it closer to the bedroom and just listened. Mow I am working on RMOD Mark II. No Noise, No Ramps. Just pure rotary torque. > I know that's what I would do if I found an effect like this. :) > > Seriously, though, you ought to consider finding a place to keep it. Try > to run it for as long as possible. See if it runs out. See if the ball > magnetizes, or other anomalies occur in use. It could lead to a deeper > understanding, or perhaps a simpler explanation of what's going on. > > Hasta, > > Craig Haynie > ccHaynie ix.netcom.com Hi Craig, In the SMOT system, using the "N" gauge track for the ball return, the ball turns many times. I haven't seen a magnetised ball yet. I keep my balls attached to a big ring magnet. Don't know if that has an effect or not? Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 15:59:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA25125; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:56:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:56:13 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:59:03 -0600 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re Tesla: Looking for Answers Resent-Message-ID: <"JZ3Dr.0.H86.94Abp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7850 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: snip >In a paper by Oliver Nicholson called, I think, "The Later Inventions Of >Nikola Tesla", he says that Tesla said that such a sink would operate to >draw energy out the environment for power. He used the analogy of a lake snip-- > Fred Nikola Tesla stated the following on May 12, 1938: "During the succeeding two years [1893 and 1894] of intense concentration I was fortunate enough to make two far reaching discoveries. The first was a dynamic theory of gravity, which I have worked out in all details and hope to give to the world very soon. It explains the causes of this force and the motions of heavenly bodies under its influence so satisfactorily that it will put an end to idle speculation and false conceptions, as that of curved space . . . . "Only the existence of a field of force can account for the motions of the bodies as observed, and its assumption dispenses with space curvature. All literature on this subject is futile and dispenses with space curvature. So are all attempts to explain the workings of the universe without recognizing the existence of the ether and the indispensable function it plays in the phenomena. "My second discovery was of a physical truth of the greatest importance. As I have searched the entire scientific records in more than a half dozen languages for a long time without finding the least anticipation, I consider myself the original discoverer of this truth, which can be expressed by the statement: There is no energy in matter other than that received from the environment. "On my 79th birthday I made a brief reference to it, but its meaning and significance have become clearer to me since then. It applies rigorously to molecules and atoms as well as to the largest heavenly bodies, and to all matter in the universe in any phase of its existence from its very formation to its ultimate disintegration." Margaret Cheney wrote: "Tesla's thoughts in later life were tending more and more toward a unifying physical theory. He believed that all matter came from a primary substance, the luminiferous ether....." >From Hunt and Draper: "And then Tesla went on to reveal his most recent dream of an entire new source of power. He maintained that he was working on two things based on pure mathematics which Professor Einstein had also attempted to explain, but Tesla boasted that his explanations were not so involved as Einstein's, albeit they concerned a totally new source of power. Tesla said: "'The conception, the idea when it first burst upon me was a tremendous shock. I can only say at this time that it will come from an entirely new and unsuspected source and will be for all practical purposes constant day and night. The apparatus for capturing the energy and transforming it will partake of both mechanical and electrical features. At first the cost may be found to be too high, but this obstacle will be overcome. The installation will be indestructible and will continue to function for any length of time without additional expenditures. It has nothing to do with atomic energy. There is no such energy in the sense usually meant." He also stated, "With my currents, using pressures as high as 15 million volts, the highest ever used, I have split atoms but no energy was released....'" Cheney goes on to write: "He (Tesla) said of this new SOURCE of power that it would throw light upon many puzzling phenomena of the cosmos. And in another enigmatic comment that puzzles Tesla scholars down to the present day, he said it might prove of great industrial value 'particularly in creating a new and virtually unlimited market for steel.'" "Questioned further, Tesla would only say that .... the apparatus for manufacturing this energy and transforming it would be of ideal simplicity with both mechanical and electrical features. Tesla said the preliminary cost might be thought too high, but this would be overcome, for the installation would be both permanent and indestructible." __________________________________ Some questions which come to my mind in reading the above are: 1) What was Tesla's "Unifying Physical Theory"? 2) What was Tesla's "Dynamic Theory of Gravity"? 3) What was the explicit nature of Tesla's "ether" concept? 4) What does Tesla mean when he says (with respect to atomic energy): "There is no such energy in the sense _usually_ meant."? In what "other sense" would he describe such energy? 5) What was Tesla's "totally new source of power" with "both mechanical and electrical features"? 6) What was the nature of this "simplicity" with respect to this "apparatus for manufacturing this energy and transforming it"? 7) What did Tesla mean when he stated that the installation of the "totally new source of power" would be "both _permanent_ and _indestructible_."? Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "The day when we shall know exactly what electricity is, will chronicle an event probably greater than any other recorded in the human race." --- NIKOLA TESLA From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 16:06:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA27590; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:03:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:03:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3394A0C3.1564 microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 08:24:59 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!!] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2BC11A235A96" Resent-Message-ID: <"688Cq1.0.kk6.nAAbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7851 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2BC11A235A96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Got bounced Sorry --------------2BC11A235A96 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (smartlst mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by orca.microtronics.com.au (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA29383 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:18:54 +0930 (CST) From: freenrg-l-request eskimo.com Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA22310; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:48:43 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:48:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199706032248.PAA22310 mx1.eskimo.com> To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! References: <199706031556.IAA16000 germany.it.earthlink.net> <33949E56.3AA9@microtronics.com.au> In-Reply-To: <33949E56.3AA9 microtronics.com.au> X-Loop: freenrg-l eskimo.com This is an automated response to your request. Sorry, you cannot post to freenrg-L if you are not a subscriber. If you wish to subscribe, send mail to "freenrg-L-request" with the word "subscribe" in the SUBJECT: line of the message. If you are *already* subscribed to freenrg-L, the software did not recognize your email address. Your address may have changed. Unsubscribe yourself using your old address, then re-subscribe using your new address. For instructions, see http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html If you have continuing problems, contact the list owner at: billb eskimo.com (Note: this list has been recently ported to new software. The 'listproc' commands no longer work. To get an instruction sheet, send a blank message to freenrg-L-request with the word "help" in the **subject** line of the message. ------------------- returned message follows ------------------- Michael Randall wrote: > > At 07:02 PM 6/2/97 -0400, Francis J. Stenger wrote: > >Rick Monteverde wrote: > >> > >> Frank - > >> > >> I think we need to be very careful, these things are very interesting and > >> even compelling, but until we've got the thing spinning for hours on our > >> workbenches, we might not be any closer than anyone else ever was. They've > >> never worked before, AFAIK. > >> > > > >I agree Rick! This evening I set up one of your sawtooth rogues with > >12 magnets which I think are identical to yours. (Radio Shack?) > >I had 6 magnets on each side of my 12 mm Al rail and my 1.5 inch steel > >ball. The magnets were "piggy-back" with about 1/4 inch overlap. > >With the rail dead level I noticed the following: > >(Note, this was a tight packing with the magnets in contact and the > >inside corner of the magnets clearing the ball only by about 1/8 inch.) > > > > 1. The ball would enter from a dead stop and move through 5 > > null points (blue holes?). > > 2. The ball would NOT exit but bounced off the sixth null and > > oscillated a while - finally captured in one of the nulls. > > 3. The BALL WOULD NOT START FROM AN INTERIOR NULL POINT! > > If I slowly pushed it past a null point, it would settle > > into the next one. > > 4. So, the ball DID traverse to the end IF started in the fringe > > field at EITHER END of the array. (from a stop!) > > How did you arrange your sawtooth magnets, like a "V" (see A below) or a > lamba (see B below)? I tried both and got the "V" design to work, as I wrote > to Rick. The ball travel from left to right. > /////// \\\\\\\\ > A ===o====> worked B ====o====> Didn't work > \\\\\\\ //////// > > >I get the feeling that if I had a big circle of these sawtooth > >configured magnets that THE BALL WOULD NOT CONTINUE TO TRAVERSE. > > > >Linkers of SMOT ramps might try to start the balls from an INTERIOR > >ramp. It would be interesting to know if the ball would start from such > >a point! Of course, if an elevation gain is confirmed, I can't see > >why a roll-a-round would not close the loop. BUT, IT STILL DRIVES ME > >CRAZY!! > > In SMOT, I found (and probably others) that the ball will not start from the > interior of the arrays. It needs to be sucked into the field. If you reduce the inter ramp linking distance, interior starts can be done. > The same > occurrs with diagram B above but would not traverse more than 5 magnets in > the array. But with diagram A, the ball only needs to be in the array to > start and would not start if outside the field. This is big difference and > unique that the ball can start anywhere in the array field and will always > travel toward the end (toward the right in A diagram). > > > >I agree that it is MOST IMPORTANT to try to replicate Greg's results. > >If he's right, then we need to REMODEL physics! > > > >Frank Stenger > > Hi Frank, > > If you have the time you might want to try the V array. I did it by flipping > the array over and putting the ball inside the field to start it moving. I > hope this helps. > > This also gave me a break from my SMOT unit. In the linking of two ramps I > need Blue tack or something to hold the arrays in place and for adjustments. > I'm still having problems in the two ramp mag arrays physically linking and > need to fasten them so they don't interfer with each other. It is > challenging though. :) > > Best Regards, > Michael Randall Hi Michael, Sounds like you are using different polarity arrays. SN SN SN SN SN SN NS NS NS NS NS NS instead of SN SN SN SN SN SN SN SN SN SN SN SN In the first arrangement, the arrays from two linked SMOT ramps will attract each other and in the second they will repel each other. The lower array arrangement is the one I use for linking. However I have experimented with the first, but not too far as the magnets from both arrays attract each other and lift off the side magnet supports. Using the first arrangement, I got much better linking results, the second linked ramp actually assists with the ball climbing the first ramp. But I went back to the second as I thought it would cause less problems overall. But hey, experiment with the first system. Just devise a way to hold the magnets to the magnet supports. Blu-Tack ......... why didn't I think of that! Greg --------------2BC11A235A96-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 17:00:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA10156; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:56:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:56:02 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970603205301_100433.1541_BHG67-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:54:44 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Chevron arrnagement Resent-Message-ID: <"QAyn_2.0.XU2.HyAbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7852 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris - The first time I made one of these chevron or sawtooth arrays, it looked like this as viewed from above: / \ / \ / \ That really is a nice approximation of the angles and the spacing too, assuming you're not using one of those "Olde English" fonts or something. The sides facing inwards towards the rails were the usual N along one side and S along the other which we have been using. The thing that got my attention with this is that each pair of magnets is like an entire SMOT array - see? It's a SMOT ramp fractal. Each pair is canted inwards at one end. But if you leave a wide gap between the arrays, that is - place the arrays further away from the rail in the center, can you see that the blue holes of the narrow end of one pair sort of blends in with the blue hole at the wide end of the next pair? They're like a bunch of linked ramps. You have to back off like that to spread the fields out so things smooth out and merge. Like throwing two pebbles in the water together near each other, the gradients in the waves and interactions from each splash are sharp and distinct. Out further, they smooth in and merge. I barely understand why this works though, and I get confused by Hamdi's steeper angled arrays. The polarity there becomes sort of ambiguous, and Michael's arrays seemed to work 'backwards'. I like the more straightforward N-S faces inwards situation. I was using bigger and stronger magnets for this so far. I haven't yet assembled one with the small fridge magnets yet - they might be as good but work closer in. Too close and things start to cog and bog. There's far less lift power here, but you shouldn't need it - the idea is to get one long ramp up to the altitude that the four regular ramps would get, and avoid the up-downs along the way. One fairly serious drawback - using weaker fields means that the system is going to be much more sensitive to magnetized balls. But it seems like others are using the chevron array in a way that allows using stronger fields up close to the rail. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 17:10:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA13733; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:06:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:04:39 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Cunningham Patent 4,443,776 Resent-Message-ID: <"s1NF83.0.RM3.B6Bbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7853 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace - Here's what I've been visualizing for the Cunningham inspired rotary Rogue SMOT: \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ upper magnets (stator) ====||===||===||==== rotating disc, seen edge on w/ embedded ferrite rods ///////////////////// lower magnets (stator) Rods might be good, as they look like balls from the side but link flux through themselves well with the polarity of the magnets like the Gary device which also uses a rod. Thing is, I just can't imagine any of this really working! You think??? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 17:27:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA14071; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:11:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:11:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3394B234.73C3 microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 09:39:24 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hello Greg References: <199706032259.AAA24575 atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vLNYl1.0.RR3.ABBbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7854 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > > >Hi Craig, > > > >In the SMOT system, using the "N" gauge track for the ball return, the > >ball turns many times. Yes. > How long does it run continiously ? Best time at present is about 10 minutes. > What has been the longest time you did run the N gauge SMOT > in a closed loop ? I was wondering how long it would take until I was asked that! > Does the ball drop out of the tracks after a while, cause > it gets to much speed ? No, the "Blue Hole's" walls still cause a self regulation effect. > Regards, Stefan. Hi Stefan, I have started the second version (plexiglas) of the RMOD Mark I running at 00:00 this morning. It is a much improved mechanical version with a small flywheel. I hope to be able to do some real torque measurements soon. Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 17:29:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA20278; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:42:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:42:01 -0700 Message-ID: <33949C01.1DB2 ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 17:34:41 -0500 From: Craig Haynie Reply-To: ccHaynie ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Simple Test for you Achievers! References: <33948501.F423CD9A verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BGRax1.0.my4.ts9bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7846 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello! Those of you who have achieved single ramp roll-away, multi-ramp roll away, or multi-ramp linkage with no roll-away, here is a simple test to check for anomalous behavior. Single Ramp and Multi-Ramp Roll-Away: Put the device on a level surface, facing north. Try the device in this direction, then turn it to the west and try it, then to the south and try it, then to the east and try it. If the ball will traverse the ramp from a complete stop, in all four directions, then this is good confirmation that there isn't some hidden gravitational force, or other force, creating the effect. Multi-Ramp Linkage without Roll-Away: If you can successfully link two ramps together, then go through the 4-direction test described above, and then reverse the order of the ramps, without any adjustment to the magnets, and successfully complete the four direction test again, then this is a good indication of an anomaly. Hasta, Craig Haynie ccHaynie ix.netcom.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 18:03:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA18154; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:35:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:35:38 -0700 Message-ID: <33949B5C.2C58 microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 08:01:56 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Chevron arrangement References: <33948501.F423CD9A verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KYwdV1.0.aR4.vm9bp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7845 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hamdi Ucar wrote: > > Hi, > > > Chris Tinsley wrote: > > > Could one of you please give more details, or correct my > > understanding? I think that the actual arrangement is that > > the magnets are in contact but only along part of their > > length - like 15% of it. > > That you described seems right. By the way I am giving the details of my > setup: > > (I am going expert with ascii graphics.) > > _ _ _ > / \ / \ / \ > / \/ \/ \ > \ \ \ \ > \ \ \ \ > \ NS \ NS \ NS \ . . . . > \ \ \ \ > \ \ \ \ > \ /\ /\ / > \_/ \_/ \_/ > ________________________________ > magnetic _ > wall <=== (_) start > ________________________________ > _ _ _ > / \ / \ / \ > / \/ \/ \ > / / / / > / / / / > / SN / SN / SN / > / / / / . . . . . . > / / / / > \ /\ /\ / > \_/ \_/ \_/ > > Actually the ascii above gives good information about angles and the > proportion of the tooth. magnets are original rectangular shaped, not > truncated as shown. > > Clearance from closest point of magnets to the ball should be in range > 3mm-10mm. After 2cm the effect is greatly reduced. > > This setup is suitable for 10x25x40 or 9x22x48 sized magnets. I don't > know if the effect is reproducible with smaller sized magnets. > > The absolute meaning of the magnetic poles it not necessary. All N's may > me swapped with S's. > > Ball is pulled to the end with a continuous force. > > Regards, > > Hamdi Ucar Hi Hamdi, I will do some QField sims for you of this. Will post them in a few hours. Looks interesting. Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 18:19:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA05436; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:05:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:05:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3394BEC8.1B17 microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:33:04 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hello Greg References: <199706040027.CAA27038 atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sMvEw1.0.nK1.IzBbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7855 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > >Stefan Hartmann wrote: > >> > >> > > >> >Hi Craig, > >> > > >> >In the SMOT system, using the "N" gauge track for the ball return, the > >> >ball turns many times. > > > >Yes. > > > >> How long does it run continiously ? > > > >Best time at present is about 10 minutes. > > Why does it stop after 10 minutes ??? I don't know. The energy balance is very low. Maybe there is something in the ball becoming magnetized. As the ball moves through the 150mm radius turns, its skids and turns. I have marked a ball with a marker and observed this. Maybe if I am unlucky the ball enters the bottom of the ramp in the same rotation as it left and the tiny residual magnetism from the last pass builds. But most of the time the ball rotation is random and any residual magnetism is wiped by the next pass. I am attempting to increase the final drop height and put more energy into the return by lifting the upper end of the track. The earlier curved ramps and curved links ran for 3 hours and 27 minutes. > >> What has been the longest time you did run the N gauge SMOT > >> in a closed loop ? > > > >I was wondering how long it would take until I was asked that! > > > >> Does the ball drop out of the tracks after a while, cause > >> it gets to much speed ? > > > >No, the "Blue Hole's" walls still cause a self regulation effect. > > What is a BLUE HOLE ??? The null zone at the ends of the mag arrays. Look at the array sims. The null zones are Blue. They are now officially the "Blue Holes" > >> Regards, Stefan. > > > >Hi Stefan, > > > >I have started the second version (plexiglas) of the RMOD Mark I running > >at 00:00 this morning. It is a much improved mechanical version with a > >small flywheel. I hope to be able to do some real torque measurements > >soon. > > Sounds great ! Keep on trying ! > > I guess I will also order one of your SMOT kits soon. > > Stay tuned. > Regards, Stefan. Hi Stefan, Ok, will look forward to the order. Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 18:24:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA24629; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:08:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:08:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3394BF62.230A microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:35:38 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Real Time SMOT sims] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5B4542625EF3" Resent-Message-ID: <"8Xrwd1.0.f06.90Cbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7856 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5B4542625EF3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Anyone know any more about this magic magnetic field analysis paper? I would like to get a supply and include it in ALL SMOT kits. Should help ALL of us better adjust our SMOT ramps. Greg --------------5B4542625EF3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from orion.Localaccess.com (Orion.localaccess.com [206.64.48.2]) by orca.microtronics.com.au (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA29876 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:27:19 +0930 (CST) Received: from orion.Localaccess.com by orion.Localaccess.com (NTMail 3.02.11) with ESMTP id ba744589 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:57:03 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970603155742.00b1fd10 mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 15:58:00 -0700 To: gwatson microtronics.com.au From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Real Time SMOT sims Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The "magnetic paper" makes adjusting the SMOT a breeze. For example after total disassembly (no marks) it takes me roughly 8 hours to adjust my ego improved and capricious NdFeB ramps. With the "magnetic paper" I can be finished in 45minutes. It is like having "magnetic eyes", the visual feedbacks that this paper provides feel like a difference between blindness and sight !!! I bet you could improve the educational effectiveness of SMOT kit 10 times with this "magnetic paper ". Like I said before, you can see the "blue hole". All you have to do is make sure that the U channel ends exactly in the middle of that hole... You can also see very clearly the "neutral line" and any effect of the next ramp on the "neutral line" or "blue hole" and the magnetic flux gradient. P.S. Haven't found the surplus source yet, still have several hundred kilograms of catalogs to go through, it is there somewhere. I have a picture of this surplus catalog "in my minds eye" :) >Edmund's Scientific in USA. +1-609-573-6250 > >I also have seen a very cheap surplus source, I will look through my catalog collection and report >back wit a telephone number after I get some sleep tonight (still fighting with the NdFeB magnets :) > >I could order you some (I'll buy) if you cannot find a source down under. Let me know. > At 07:07 PM 6/3/97 +0930, you wrote: >Epitaxy wrote: >> >> The magnetic paper that changes color in response to different densities >> of magnetic flux, is cheap and makes great tuning addition to SMOT ramps. >> You can see the position of the "blue hole" in real time. Very neat ! > >Hi Epitaxy, > >Where does one get one's hands on some of this magic stuff. > >I will download your files tonight. > >What do you think of the "N" guage rollaround? > >By the way, SMOT kit #2 has been earmarked for you. Who knows, someday >it may be worth a college education. > > >Best Regards, > Greg > > --------------5B4542625EF3-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 18:47:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA29398; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:41:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:41:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:40:32 -0600 Message-Id: <199706040140.TAA22610 freenet.uchsc.EDU> From: bx196 freenet.uchsc.EDU (Mike W. McClure) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: 'S' curve on SMOT Reply-To: bx196 freenet.uchsc.EDU Resent-Message-ID: <"6Ita8.0.FB7.OVCbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7857 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I'm a new smot builder, and might have missed the 'S' curve postings. Is this a "curve" in the aluminum channel 'ALONG' its Length? Or, is this a "curve" right at the exit area of the smot where it DROPS OFF. I looked at PICS at http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/smotidx.htm But didn't see anything *except* maybe an "S" shaped GRAPH.. Is this it? Is it an imaginary "S" shape curve.. how do some of you grind it? Thanks for any help. Mike -- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 19:27:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA14510; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:58:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:58:45 -0700 Message-ID: <3394CBD6.4C68 interlaced.net> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 21:58:46 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! References: <970603215305_100433.1541_BHG46-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Y0QbP1.0.aY3.KlCbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7858 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > Frank, > > > I'm using a 28 inch aluminum carpenter's level to set up the base > > board. > > I wouldn't trust that. With a well-polished track and a good ball you > can detect 1mm in a metre with no difficulty whatever. Just roll the > ball back and forth. > > Chris I agree too, Chris. However, my machined-edge level will show 1 mm per m slope - if you're careful. It's just easier to work with the level when the magnets are around - which is often the case with my hand carried rig-on-a-board. Anywhy, I'll give you the 1 mm/m slope and still jump for joy if you do a 12 mm lift and roll-away at the same level - I'm still not clear on just how many SMOTers are doing that using your good level technique. Part time SMOTer, full time remodeler - Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 19:48:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA15842; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:26:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:26:21 -0700 Message-ID: <3394CC05.6CFA microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 11:29:33 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: 'S' curve on SMOT References: <199706040140.TAA22610 freenet.uchsc.EDU> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7598F3570F2" Resent-Message-ID: <"Hxlh-2.0.Pt3.B9Dbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7859 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7598F3570F2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike W. McClure wrote: > > I'm a new smot builder, and might have missed the 'S' curve postings. > Is this a "curve" in the aluminum channel 'ALONG' its Length? Or, is > this a "curve" right at the exit area of the smot where it DROPS OFF. > I looked at PICS at http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/smotidx.htm > But didn't see anything *except* maybe an "S" shaped GRAPH.. Is this it? > Is it an imaginary "S" shape curve.. how do some of you grind it? > Thanks for any help. > Mike > > -- Hi Mike, I have attached the necessary details. The "S" curve is in the exit portion of the ramp. It helps to save the rolling energy stored in the ball. Make linking much easier. 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pX7rvFtJ+DgK0KSdOXrQj9zDnndx6d26RuMvfm6mv3nVMeem3h9u7DrHMvfjDntwsl33mV/M 42l5/x5zvv/+/z8ABqAADiABFqABHiACJqACLiADNqADPmDxqN2hgNpZAZeQDd6AZVgeoZiz 5R9OGc65IZKOvZionZkosQeUxdkXlYijER+TuRjEfVqCONoftdaWWNnnDN+F+Zwo+d2BNR0Q xuAJrpm6BZ5PKDzaKY1I9lUYm1mb0VEb+JlRAl7eLi3ZD0IgFmahFm4hF3ahF34hGIahGI4h GZahGZ4hGqahGq4hG3JGQAAAOw== --------------7598F3570F2-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 19:59:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA20719; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:46:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:46:41 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <3394D46F.627A math.ucla.edu> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 19:35:27 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Systematic SMOT experiments References: <3390DC62.6E61 microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Zfunj2.0.f35.GSDbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7860 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Question for Greg: have you done any systematic experiments on your functional SMOT to measure the effects of eddy loss, hysteresis loss, or to characterize its performsance envelope? You could argue that you are instead spending your time teaching other folks how to build one. That is admirable, but it would not take much time to characterize some simple aspects of your functioning SMOT, like how long it runs before it stops, how fast the ball travels, how great are the accelerations, how far your ball will run on a straight flat track with magnets || to track (as a measure of eddy current loss), etc. In short, you might want to report some systematic observations in parallel to teaching others how to build the device. That would shorten the pipeline rather than waiting for others to get a functioning unit (which, personally, I'm guessing will only happen if you sell a kit to build such). -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 20:01:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA21013; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:48:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:48:32 -0700 Date: 03 Jun 97 22:45:44 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Chevron arrnagement Message-ID: <970604024544_76016.2701_JHC35-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"G1gFo2.0.E85._TDbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7861 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick said: >>But it seems like others are using the chevron array in a way that allows using stronger fields up close to the rail.<< Rail! That's it. Build a flat rail using the N-gauge in a circle and chevron magnets around it. Hmmm...I wonder if you can run trains that way. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 20:02:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA07625; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <3394D9EF.28EE math.ucla.edu> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 19:58:55 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: $200 SMOT Offer References: <33938019.78BD math.ucla.edu> <3393A281.225@skypoint.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GM6IX2.0.zs1.XeDbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7862 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I'll pay $200 if someone will send me a fully functional closed loop SMOT. This means it must be shipped in a form that can be fully assembled in < 1 hour, and once assembled it must run in a closed loop mode with the ball making at least 100 unaided transits and at least 10 minutes of continuous run time. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 20:20:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA25764; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:06:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:06:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199706040305.WAA15412 dsm7.dsmnet.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Dean T. Miller" To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:03:29 (-050 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Real Time SMOT sims] CC: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3394BF62.230A microtronics.com.au> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Resent-Message-ID: <"oolUz2.0.PI6.FlDbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7863 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:35:38 +0930 > From: Greg Watson Hi Greg, Epitaxy, gwatson microtronics.com.au wrote: > Anyone know any more about this magic magnetic field analysis paper? > > I would like to get a supply and include it in ALL SMOT kits. Should > help ALL of us better adjust our SMOT ramps. American Science & Supply has what they call "Magnetic Film" which is a 25 x 50 mm (1 x 2 inch) piece consisting of 2 layers of plastic inside which is laminated a mixture of powdered iron, nickel and steel suspended in oil droplets. It's described on page 19 of their Feb, 1996 catalog (#101) and their catalog number is 10273 -- each piece is priced at $1.50 US. Their phone is 847-982-0870 and address is: American Science & Surplus 3605 Howard Street Skokie IL 60076 I ran across this item about 10 minutes before I read your message as I was scouring my catalogs looking for better magnets. -- Dean -- from Des Moines (KB0ZDF) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 20:34:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA11562; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:28:35 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Cunningham Patent 4,443,776 Resent-Message-ID: <"nGzg_3.0.Wq2.16Ebp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7864 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 2:04 PM 6/3/97, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Horace - > >Here's what I've been visualizing for the Cunningham inspired rotary Rogue >SMOT: > >\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ upper magnets (stator) > >====||===||===||==== rotating disc, seen edge on w/ embedded ferrite rods > >///////////////////// lower magnets (stator) > > >Rods might be good, as they look like balls from the side but link flux >through themselves well with the polarity of the magnets like the Gary >device which also uses a rod. > >Thing is, I just can't imagine any of this really working! You think??? > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI The above is closer to what I posted as a rotary adaptation of the Hartman device on 5/30/97: "To close the loop simply take the design for the flat ramp and warp it around into a vertical cylinder, with the magnetic fields vertical. Mount the "balls" on the rim of a horizontal non-conductive cylinder, say a plastic disk mounted on an axle with good bearings, called the armature. Let the "magnetic ramp" portion of the vertical cylinder (stator) comprize about 2/3 to 3/4 of the circumference of the ball path. Use at least 5 or 6 balls. In this way several balls are in the "ramp" simultaneously, and the pull of several balls, plus the entire wheel momentum, helps each ball exit the "ramp". The "exit" of the ramp would then be bent inwards toward the axel." However, your above diagram is using the Rogue SMOT chevron magnetic arrays, which, if you use Hamdi's highly overlapped version of them, are almost identical to the Cunningham device disks - with one key exception: the rotating disk with ferrite rods is superfluous. The upper magnet array and lower magnet array, per Cunningham, should produce torque between each other. Only the upper magnets need be mounted on a rotating disk, for example. Also, in the Cunningham device the lower disk magnets need be facing on the opposite angle, but the exposed magnet faces can be of either attracting of opposing polarity to the exposed portions of the faces on the upper wheel: | \\\\\\\\\\|\\\\\\\\\\ upper magnets (armature) | \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ lower magnets (stator) I think I mis-stated this in an earlier post. Here's what I think about any of this working. If anything is ou in a linear form, i.e. can close the loop and run indefinitely, then the rotary analog, using a plastic disk with the balls replaced by sufficiently equivalent elements, must also work. Basically you are only talking about a change in coordinate systems. If the Hartman device works, then an equivalent rotary version will work. If the Rougue SMOT chevron configuration (RSCC) works linearly in a manner sufficient to close the loop, then the rotary equivalent should work. That goes for either the closely stacked magnet array or loosly stacked magnet array versions. In fact, even if you *can't* close the loop with the RSCC it might still work in rotary form. Cunningham's device is another thing entirely and sinks or swims on its own merit. Personally, I agree with you in having a hard time believing the above device will work. In fact, I still find it difficult to believe any simple magnetic device working solely on magnetic principles can work. I think if something *does* work, there is a hidden principle that connects to an external energy pool, or which violates the second law. On the other hand, *something* drove Hartman, and Cunningham, and others to go to great lengths, and now Watson to do what he is doing, so that all speeks to the contrary. Like CF, only independent confirmation is going to be convincing, and even that may not be enough for the scientific community. Personally, I'll be very happy to get my hands on a working version of something, *anything* ou. All that said, it's still a great play, a great script. What a great time to be alive. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 21:05:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA01317; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:41:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:41:28 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <3394E3CE.1778 math.ucla.edu> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 20:41:02 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cunningham Patent 4,443,776 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_wPsM1.0.VK.cFEbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7865 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > On the other hand, *something* drove Hartman, and Cunningham, > and others to go to great lengths, and now Watson to do what he > is doing, so that all speeks to the contrary. Something also has driven numerous people to attempt mathematically impossible feats like trisect an angle or square a circle (with ruler an compass). In this case, it can be proven rigorously that what they attempt is impossible, yet they refuse to beleive the experts or learn and understand the real proofs. So, that a human being is driven investigate something is no evidence of intrinsic feasibility. More likely it simply shows how readily the asscoiated problem can trick people into investigating it with the right combination of complexity and apparent tractibility. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 21:39:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA18864; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3394F063.2F61 skypoint.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 23:34:43 -0500 From: John Logajan Organization: Skypoint Communications, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Chevron arrangement References: <33948501.F423CD9A verisoft.com.tr> <33949B5C.2C58@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UfAOz1.0.fc4.02Fbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7866 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hamdi Ucar gave us the chevron ascii graphics. I added some field lines. Note how unsymmetrical the field lines are. No wonder the ball moves to one end or the other. The field is weaker at one end (the right end in this case.) The "loop" on this can't be closed, since then the asymmetry goes away. Ball travel direction <------ _ _ _ / \ / \ / \ / \/ \/ \ _____ \ \ \ \ / \ \ \ \ \/ \ /\ NS \ NS \ NS \ ___ \ / \ \ \ \/ \ \ / / \ \ \ \ \ \ / / \ /\ /\ / | | | / / \_/ \_/ \_/ | | | | | | | | \ \ _ _ _ | | | \ \ / \ / \ / \ | | \ \ / \/ \/ \ | | \ \/ / / / / / \ / / / / \__ / / / SN / SN / SN / / / / / / \ / / / / / \_____/ \ /\ /\ / \_/ \_/ \_/ You should get the same effect with bar magnet cut like this: _________________ \ \ \ N S \ \________________\ _________________ / / / S N / /________________/ Also when you reverse one magnet the higher "field strength" switches ends (since the right side magnets buck each other less and therefore remain stronger.) So your ball should travel the reverse direction. -----> _________________ \ \ \ N S \ \________________\ _________________ / / / N S / /________________/ None of these look like useful O/U arrangements (of course, neither does Greg Watson's.) -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 21:39:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA18940; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:35:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:35:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:33:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706040433.XAA05198 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: the Cloak of Complexity Resent-Message-ID: <"C-HKq2.0.rd4.b2Fbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7867 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 08:41 PM 6/3/97 -0700, Barry Merriman wrote: >So, that a human being is driven investigate something is no >evidence of intrinsic feasibility. More likely it simply shows how >readily the asscoiated problem can trick people into >investigating it with the right combination of complexity and >apparent tractibility. I agree. When you take a simple physical phenomena and apply a cloak of complexity which interferes with conclusive, definitive analysis, the result is a fertile medium for the growth of fantasies. One foot on the ground - Scott From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 21:44:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA19965; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:40:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706040440.XAA05731 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: still trying (SMOT) Resent-Message-ID: <"4iAK6.0.it4.c7Fbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7868 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Another significant effort today with our 2 SMOT ramps. We have now pretty much concluded that there is no chance of a level roll away with our short magnets. Taller magnets arrive tomorrow. HAS ANYONE (BESIDES GREG) ACHIEVED THE LEVEL ROLL AWAY GREG MENTIONED TODAY? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 21:47:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA20523; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:43:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l mail.eskimo.com From: Ed Wall Subject: Mu Metal--Blue hole Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 04:41:00 +0000 Message-ID: <19970604044058.AAA2676 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"_rdK-3.0.V05.b9Fbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7869 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Vortexaphiles, For you SMOTers, I suggest trying some mu metal to sheild and shape the magnetic field near the drop zone. Maybe making a trap door out of mu metal over the blue hole? Just a thought. Ed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 22:27:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA15734; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:14:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:14:42 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:14:28 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: JSE Book Reviews (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"4NdJO1.0.mr3.0dFbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7870 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For those not on sse-L list... .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 2 Jun 97 14:49:31 PDT From: "Roger D. Nelson" Reply-To: sse-l jsasoc.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: JSE Book Reviews An Invitation The Journal of Scientific Exploration's book reviews are a primary source of information and informed opinion on new books of potential interest to members of the Society of Scientific Exploration. Most JSE reviews are done by people with particular interest in the topic, and the sort of expertise that results in useful descriptions and critical commentaries to help the rest of us decide how to spend our precious reading time. We invite you to join this group of scholars and scientists to contribute to the JSE book review process. New editor After many years as the review editor, during which he established a tradition of high quality, Henry Bauer has retired from the position. Roger Nelson has been appointed to serve as the new review editor. Two other members of SSE, Arnold Lettieri and David Moncrief, will be assistant editors who will help with coordination and processing of reviews. Some new possibilities In addition to current books, reviews of other types may be of interest to SSE members and JSE readers: * Certain specially interesting books published some time ago might merit attention as "evergreens." * Short notes describing books in foreign languages would be useful contributions. * Certain CD ROM publications may be of special interest to SSE members and JSE readers. How you can help 1. Reading and reviewing books: Let us know if you are interested in writing reviews. You may have a book in mind or may wish to give us a description of your areas of interest and ask to be on our list of potential reviewers. 2. Suggestions for books to review: Although the Journal receives advertisements and books from publishers, the best source of new books is the scientific grapevine. Let us know about new books that you think JSE readers will want to hear about. 3. We prefer all correspondence and submissions in the form of email and electronic text when possible. However, we are prepared to accept other modes of communication. We will provide guidelines and suggestions for a readable and consistent style appropriate for JSE. Contact information Roger Nelson JSE Book Review Editor Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Princeton University Princeton, NJ 08544 Telephone: 609-258-5370 Email: rdnelson princeton.edu (Roger Nelson) or arnlet princeton.edu (Arnold Lettieri) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 22:57:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA01601; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706040553.WAA09466 norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"_-Qd8.0.wO.uCGbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7871 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:27 PM 6/3/97 -0400, Frank S. wrote: >Michael Randall wrote: >> >> >> How did you arrange your sawtooth magnets, like a "V" (see A below) or a >> lamba (see B below)? I tried both and got the "V" design to work, as I wrote >> to Rick. The ball travel from left to right. >> /////// \\\\\\\\ >> A ===o====> worked B ====o====> Didn't work >> \\\\\\\ //////// >> > >OK, Mike - what's the difference in the above layouts - shouldn't the >"B" configuration work if you let the ball move from right to left? Correct. >Thats what I tried - the thing actually worked about the same from >a start from either end. The ball would traverse 5 nulls and hang in >the 6th at EITHER end. I'm using a 28 inch aluminum carpenter's level >to set up the base board. The carpenters level wouldn't be the problem. It could be the magnets, the way you overlayed the magnets or the size of the ball. >> In SMOT, I found (and probably others) that the ball will not start from the >> interior of the arrays. It needs to be sucked into the field. The same >> occurrs with diagram B above but would not traverse more than 5 magnets in >> the array. But with diagram A, the ball only needs to be in the array to >> start and would not start if outside the field. This is big difference and >> unique that the ball can start anywhere in the array field and will always >> travel toward the end (toward the right in A diagram). > >Mike, if I found this condition I WOULD PROCEED TO GET ENOUGH MAGNETS >FOR A CLOSED CIRCLE AND WIP UP A ROTARY RIG!! Yes, that is what I'm planning on doing next. >> >> Hi Frank, >> >> If you have the time you might want to try the V array. I did it by flipping >> the array over and putting the ball inside the field to start it moving. I >> hope this helps. > >Again, Mike - isn't this the same as starting the ball from the other >end of my level track? Yes. >>It also bothers me that the ball can not be started from "some" interior >point in a 4-SMOT linkup and complete the trip to the end!! I don't see this as being a problem in the SMOT design. It doesn't need to be started from some interior point. But in the "A" design above it does needs to be started from anywhere within the interior array for it to work. "A" could not draw the ball into the array field like SMOT or "B". Someone >will have to explain to me why 360 SMOT ramps in a huge, level circle >with only 1 degree of "link angle" will not start from SOME point in >that circle. I'm not asking for ANY net lift here - just continual >motion! Here's my frustrating points: > > 1. Will such a 360 SMOT, 1 degree link-angle closed circle of > linked SMOTS operate continuously ON THE LEVEL WITH ZERO > NET LIFT? > 2. If it will, then I assume you must give it a "shove" to start > it at some point? Or, can you just place it in the optimum > start point at the entrance to one of the ramps? > 3. Wouldn't an attempt to start up a 4-SMOT straight link-up > from some interior point shed some insight on this question? Again the mechanics are different for each design to work. > >Have any Vortexians achieved a solid roll-a-way of the ball on a track >at the INITIAL height - I mean one or two array lengths on a set-up >surface checked with an accurate level?? That is part of one of the later SMOT Phases. I think that this Phase has been verified by a couple of independent designers of the SMOT. > >Again, Mike, - if you have a continuous one-way force in a rogue array, >why not go rotary? Next step. >Good luck - Frustrated Frank S. > Hi Frank, No need for frustration here. All systems are go! Just sit back and enjoy the ride. :) Best Regards, Michael From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 3 23:43:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA05117; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:36:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:36:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706040635.XAA20319 norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Chevron arrangement Resent-Message-ID: <"G-Q122.0.pF1.spGbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7872 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:34 PM 6/3/97 -0500, John Logajan wrote: >Hamdi Ucar gave us the chevron ascii graphics. I added some field >lines. > >Note how unsymmetrical the field lines are. No wonder the ball moves to >one end or the other. The field is weaker at one end (the right end in >this case.) The "loop" on this can't be closed, since then the >asymmetry >goes away. Ball travel direction <------ > _ _ _ > / \ / \ / \ > / \/ \/ \ _____ > \ \ \ \ / \ > \ \ \ \/ \ > /\ NS \ NS \ NS \ ___ \ > / \ \ \ \/ \ \ > / / \ \ \ \ \ \ > / / \ /\ /\ / | | > | / / \_/ \_/ \_/ | | > | | | | | > | \ \ _ _ _ | | > | \ \ / \ / \ / \ | | > \ \ / \/ \/ \ | | > \ \/ / / / / / > \ / / / / \__ / / > / SN / SN / SN / / > / / / / \ / > / / / / \_____/ > \ /\ /\ / > \_/ \_/ \_/ > >You should get the same effect with bar magnet cut like this: > > _________________ > \ \ > \ N S \ > \________________\ > > _________________ > / / > / S N / > /________________/ > > >Also when you reverse one magnet the higher "field strength" >switches ends (since the right side magnets buck each other >less and therefore remain stronger.) So your ball should >travel the reverse direction. -----> > > _________________ > \ \ > \ N S \ > \________________\ > > _________________ > / / > / N S / > /________________/ > >None of these look like useful O/U arrangements (of course, >neither does Greg Watson's.) > >-- > - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - > - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - > - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - > Hi John, Good observations. Here are some additional features that I've noticed as follows: 1. That at each of the staggered/overlapped magnet pair has the same configuration as your above total array field. The next magnetic pair is stronger than the current or previous magnetic pair. In this way, the ball is always only seeking the next magnet pair. With this observation, then it could be possible to make a complete circle or close the loop. 2. The overlap of the magnets at less than 50% over each other seems to work better for a stronger pull of the ball. Cunninghams patent would be the stators and as per Rick Monteverde's drawing, the rotor in the center. Looking forward to seeing Greg's sims on the chevron array. If the sims look good then I hope on building a rotor unit to see if my observations on the linear track is correct. Best Regards, Michael Randall From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 00:00:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA07547; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706040657.XAA25345 norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Hello Greg Resent-Message-ID: <"C8D6N1.0.rr1.K8Hbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7873 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:23 AM 6/4/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: >Craig Haynie wrote: >> >> Hello Greg! >> >> So, Greg, do you wake up every morning, run over to your workbench, put >> the ball back on your ramps and let it cycle a few times, just to make >> sure it still works? > >With my first RMOD, I got about 2 hours straight sleep over 4 days, >checked it every two hours. It was my new baby. After a while, I moved >it closer to the bedroom and just listened. > >Mow I am working on RMOD Mark II. No Noise, No Ramps. Just pure rotary >torque. Great news! Looking forward to hearing more on your RMOD Mark II! >> I know that's what I would do if I found an effect like this. :) >> >> Seriously, though, you ought to consider finding a place to keep it. Try >> to run it for as long as possible. See if it runs out. See if the ball >> magnetizes, or other anomalies occur in use. It could lead to a deeper >> understanding, or perhaps a simpler explanation of what's going on. >> >> Hasta, >> >> Craig Haynie >> ccHaynie ix.netcom.com > >Hi Craig, > >In the SMOT system, using the "N" gauge track for the ball return, the >ball turns many times. I haven't seen a magnetised ball yet. I keep my >balls attached to a big ring magnet. Don't know if that has an effect >or not? > >Greg Hi Greg, Good design for the ball return with the "N" gauge track. I agree with you that the ball doesn't get magnetized to any degree to affect the SMOT operation. Just need a higher ramp end drop for a steeper slope track back to the start ramp. Michael From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 00:12:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA30337; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:58:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:58:19 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:56:14 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: the Cloak of Complexity Resent-Message-ID: <"Gv7bR3.0.tP7.98Hbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7874 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:33 PM 6/3/97, Scott Little wrote: >At 08:41 PM 6/3/97 -0700, Barry Merriman wrote: > >>So, that a human being is driven investigate something is no >>evidence of intrinsic feasibility. More likely it simply shows how >>readily the asscoiated problem can trick people into >>investigating it with the right combination of complexity and >>apparent tractibility. > >I agree. > >When you take a simple physical phenomena and apply a cloak of complexity >which interferes with conclusive, definitive analysis, the result is a >fertile medium for the growth of fantasies. > >One foot on the ground - Scott Well, we don't have long to wait to find out, at least about SMOT. Greg has published how to close the loop. Any loop closings attempted yet? One foot in the air - Horace From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 00:29:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA32035; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 00:17:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 00:17:51 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 00:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706040717.AAA29356 norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"FcFxH1.0.Tq7.UQHbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7875 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:14 AM 6/4/97 Greg Watson wrote: >Michael Randall wrote: >> [snip] >> In SMOT, I found (and probably others) that the ball will not start from the >> interior of the arrays. It needs to be sucked into the field. > >If you reduce the inter ramp linking distance, interior starts can be >done. Yes I agree. I think what Frank Stenger was asking was to be able to place the ball anywhere on the SMOT track for operation. I descibed the difference to Frank and the fact that there is no need for this in order for SMOT to work OU. >> The same [snip] >Hi Michael, > >Sounds like you are using different polarity arrays. > > >SN SN >SN SN >SN SN > >NS NS >NS NS >NS NS > >instead of > >SN SN >SN SN >SN SN > >SN SN >SN SN >SN SN > >In the first arrangement, the arrays from two linked SMOT ramps will >attract each other and in the second they will repel each other. > >The lower array arrangement is the one I use for linking. However I >have experimented with the first, but not too far as the magnets from >both arrays attract each other and lift off the side magnet supports. >Using the first arrangement, I got much better linking results, the >second linked ramp actually assists with the ball climbing the first >ramp. But I went back to the second as I thought it would cause less >problems overall. > >But hey, experiment with the first system. Just devise a way to hold >the magnets to the magnet supports. Blu-Tack ......... why didn't I >think of that! > > >Greg Hi Greg, I tried both configurations. The lower array works best also. Due to the strong magnet arrays I have they want to repel so the first ramp mag assay moves a little. A more permenant solution for my setup would be to bolt the assay to the base. In the mean time waiting for Blu-Tack! Michael From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 00:33:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA09790; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 00:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 00:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 00:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706040730.AAA01735 norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"E4qTV.0.uO2.ZdHbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7876 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:11 AM 6/3/97 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Michael - > >Thanks for sharing your results on these arrays. The direction the ball >travels through your arrays is not what I expected. Interesting about the >habits of the ball regarding where it gets stuck, too. > >I was playing with this a little bit last night. My SMOT balls are getting >magnetized, and the magnetism was definitely affecting their behavior >strongly where the fields were weak or well balanced. I need some ferrite >filled spheres or something, because magnetized balls give bizarre results >in weak-field experiments. Could you have been seeing some effects due to >this? Check your SMOT balls lately? > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI Hi Rick, Yes, confirmed my results today and it still looks good. I also observed that with more than 50% overlap the ball accelerated more so than with only a 10% overlap. An 80% overlap was very strong and the ball raced up the field. My post to John Logajan had some additional notes. See also Hamdi's drawing. No problem with the ball becoming magnetized to influence the effects. Regards, Michael Randall From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 00:37:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA10505; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 00:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 00:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33951989.3D30 microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 17:00:17 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Workstation Died Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gShKD3.0.2a2.EhHbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7877 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I got back from town about 2 hours ago (buying SMOT bits), logged in to get my mail, clicked on about the 6th or 7th mail item and the screen when blank, HD light went on and a dos message appeared saying that I could now power off the computer. Well, no boot. Looks like the boot sector and part of the fat are gone. While I don't believe in the men in black, this is a very strange hardware failure indeed! Anyone know of ways to zap a system via email? I will take the HD to a friend tomorrow and see what we can recover. I will still answer my email, but it might take awhile to regen my system. Some backups, but not much. There is around 2000 messages in the SMOT file. I don't want to loose them. Everything else I can recover or reconstruct. Life never was meant to be easy, was it?*!#!?* Not very happy, Greg PS: I have developed a screw driven magnet adjustment system that I am trying out at present. I seems to work well and holds adjustments much better than the pins. If it works out, I will include it as well as some of the magnetic field viewing paper in the SMOT Kits. That should make life a lot easier for the kit users. PPS: Also short ramps work MUCH better than long ramps, I am currently playing with a 4 magnet lond array and ramp systems that makes exiting a breeze. More later. Like bigger balls, shorter ramps look better. Sort of opposite to what you would expect, but then I did say some time ago that magnetic based Ou systems would follow reverse rules. Remember to BACKUP........................ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 01:14:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA05201; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 01:01:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 01:01:15 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 01:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706040800.BAA06522 norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Cunningham Patent 4,443,776 Resent-Message-ID: <"CE6x62.0.7H1.A3Ibp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7878 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:04 PM 6/3/97 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Horace - > >Here's what I've been visualizing for the Cunningham inspired rotary Rogue >SMOT: > >\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ upper magnets (stator) > >====||===||===||==== rotating disc, seen edge on w/ embedded ferrite rods > >///////////////////// lower magnets (stator) > > >Rods might be good, as they look like balls from the side but link flux >through themselves well with the polarity of the magnets like the Gary >device which also uses a rod. > >Thing is, I just can't imagine any of this really working! You think??? > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI Hi Rick, Great visualizing! I was also thinking about this today but with using the SMOT balls in the rotor. The rods is a good idea. This design could work if what I see on the linear track is correct. That being the ball only sees the next foreward magnet pair increased field and not the end assay field. I built a pair of 1x23 parallel mag assay 190mm long and the ball traveled the lenght. Today also experimented with only one mag assay on one side parallel to the track to see if the ball would travel the whole lenght to the end (no up slope). It did. What is unique is the ball moves only in one direction. Once at the end it gets locked up in the last magnet(s) field. In a regular bar magnet the ball would bounce back to the other end in back and forth oscilations until it stops in the middle of the bar magnet. Me think Yes!!! Michael Randall From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 01:26:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA14100; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 01:24:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 01:24:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 01:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706040823.BAA09686 norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Workstation Died Resent-Message-ID: <"pv1cp1.0.ES3.GPIbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7879 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg, Sorry to hear of your HD blinking out :( Last time mine HD stopped operating I bought a Colorado Backup tape drive. They now have the re-writable cd's that are finally affordable that can store 4 GB and 2hr. of movie video. Thinking of picking one up. No, I haven't heard of any virus that can be transfered via e-mail. Most likely HD failure. They are good for 10,000 hrs? HD have lately also increased in size with better and faster access time. Praying for you, Michael At 05:00 PM 6/4/97 +0930, you wrote: >Hi All, > >I got back from town about 2 hours ago (buying SMOT bits), logged in to >get my mail, clicked on about the 6th or 7th mail item and the screen >when blank, HD light went on and a dos message appeared saying that I >could now power off the computer. > >Well, no boot. > >Looks like the boot sector and part of the fat are gone. > >While I don't believe in the men in black, this is a very strange >hardware failure indeed! Anyone know of ways to zap a system via email? > >I will take the HD to a friend tomorrow and see what we can recover. > >I will still answer my email, but it might take awhile to regen my >system. Some backups, but not much. There is around 2000 messages in >the SMOT file. I don't want to loose them. Everything else I can >recover or reconstruct. > >Life never was meant to be easy, was it?*!#!?* > > >Not very happy, > Greg > > >PS: I have developed a screw driven magnet adjustment system that I am >trying out at present. I seems to work well and holds adjustments much >better than the pins. If it works out, I will include it as well as >some of the magnetic field viewing paper in the SMOT Kits. That should >make life a lot easier for the kit users. > >PPS: Also short ramps work MUCH better than long ramps, I am currently >playing with a 4 magnet lond array and ramp systems that makes exiting a >breeze. More later. Like bigger balls, shorter ramps look better. >Sort of opposite to what you would expect, but then I did say some time >ago that magnetic based Ou systems would follow reverse rules. > >Remember to BACKUP........................ > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 01:44:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA07452; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 01:32:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 01:32:45 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 02:38:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Chevron arrangement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"UTaHd3.0.Mq1.iWIbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7880 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 3 Jun 1997, Rick Monteverde wrote: --snip-- > The thing that got my attention with this is that each pair of magnets is > like an entire SMOT array - see? It's a SMOT ramp fractal. Each pair is > canted inwards at one end. But if you leave a wide gap between the arrays, > that is - place the arrays further away from the rail in the center, can > you see that the blue holes of the narrow end of one pair sort of blends in > with the blue hole at the wide end of the next pair? They're like a bunch > of linked ramps. ----snip---- > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > > Rick, By George, I think you "Saw/SEE" it too!!!!! It's There, (and as Tesla said "IT'S EVERYWHERE." :) se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX ps I like the Greg Watson 'V' better, but the parallel Multi-Stack is easiest to work with (rotory wise - that is ;-) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 01:59:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA15496; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 01:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 01:57:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970604024544_76016.2701_JHC35-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:24:11 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Chevron arrnagement Resent-Message-ID: <"Iq0Ku1.0.2o3.GuIbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7881 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry "Randy Goose-alini" Blanton wrote: > Hmmm...I wonder if you can run trains that way. Might not be such a "" someday if this stuff pans out. Even if it is directly unlinkable as a round trip, hey - just *getting there* is half the fun, right? Anyone have any idea where a guy could acquire a small supply of ferrite powder? My driveway needs repaving... no, really - I want to try casting some epoxy-ferrite spheres. I can take a silicone mold of a nice smooth bearing, see how that works. I want to explore effects in the weaker fields, but the slightly magnetized balls make that impossible. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 02:00:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA15580; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 01:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 01:59:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:33:49 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Cunningham Patent 4,443,776 Resent-Message-ID: <"mv0cf2.0.Ip3.SvIbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7882 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace - > However, your above diagram is using the Rogue > SMOT chevron magnetic arrays, which, if you use > Hamdi's highly overlapped version of them, are > almost identical to the Cunningham device disks - > with one key exception: the rotating disk with > ferrite rods is superfluous. Maybe, but be careful. This whole thing started over ferromagnets moving through magnetic fields, and that removes them from the scene. Dance with the one who brung ya', you know? I wanted to keep them around, thinking that perhaps they are a key part of the magic, and are literally the missing *link* - that is, the thing that caused fields to bury their heads in the ferromagnetic sands (field "killing") long enough for you to *link* successfully with net energy left over while moving from one converging gradient to the next one. Otherwise, you might have things just cog to a stop. Heck, that's probably what will happen anyway, but any of these things seem worth trying. They're cheap and simple, at least. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 02:01:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA15941; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 02:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 02:00:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199706040730.AAA01735 norway.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:44:25 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"7eTkI3.0._u3.YwIbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7883 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael - > An 80% overlap was very strong and > the ball raced up the field. Wow. Well, maybe it's time to abandon the ball for a few experiments and try a SMOT car - some little low friction non-steel cart than can ride on a track and carry a cargo consisting of a ferrite rod or maybe a chevron of magnets. I passed a hobby store tonight, but had to get to a metting so I didn't have tiome to stop. Does the N-rail sound practical? Are some of the cars plastic? I haven't even checked them out yet. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 02:12:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA16509; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 02:10:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 02:10:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33953033.CC7 microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 18:36:59 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: HD is now working!!!!!!!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Bpvw43.0.t14.A4Jbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7886 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, Seems the fault went away. Tested the HD for 1 hour and NO faults found. Replugged ALL the caables, blew out the dust, checked PSU voltages and ripple, tapped a lot of stuff. No faults found??????? So much for my rock solid computer!!!!! I installed a second removeable HD for HIGH Speed backups. Everything is now BACKED UP. Heart slowing down, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 02:14:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA09370; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 02:00:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 02:00:07 -0700 Message-ID: <33952DF3.C3D microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 18:27:23 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Rogue SMOT QF Sims Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7ECE39ED5ACE" Resent-Message-ID: <"rrTFA3.0.5I2.MwIbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7884 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7ECE39ED5ACE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Rogue Guys, Attached is a QF sim of the Rogue SMOT --------------7ECE39ED5ACE Content-Type: image/gif; name="rogue-b.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="rogue-b.gif" R0lGODlhxQG/AfcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBPwEBAT8BAQErKysVPz8 /HR0fAT8/AQE/Pz8BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Rogue SMOT XY Plot Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------735D51A65E2D" Resent-Message-ID: <"oW1Og2.0.rL2.lzIbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7885 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------735D51A65E2D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Rogue Guys, Here is the XY plot through the middle of the Rogue SMOT. 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02:28:41 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 03:34:31 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Chevron arrangement In-Reply-To: <3394F063.2F61 skypoint.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"E36AA3.0.w53.8LJbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7887 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 3 Jun 1997, John Logajan wrote: > > Hamdi Ucar gave us the chevron ascii graphics. I added some field > lines. > > Note how unsymmetrical the field lines are. No wonder the ball moves to > one end or the other. The field is weaker at one end (the right end in > this case.) The "loop" on this can't be closed, since then the > asymmetry > goes away. Ball travel direction <------ >-snip--- edit --- add for clearification ---ok! > _ _ _ > / \ / \ / \ > / \/ \/ \ _____ > \ \ \ \ / \ > \ \ \ \/ \ > /\ NS \ NS \ NS \ ___ \ > / \ \ \ \/ \ \ > / / \ \ \ \ \ \ > / / \ /\ /\ / | | > | / / \_/ \_/ \_/ | | > | | | * * | | ** = Blue Holes HERE Both ENDS > | \ \ * _ _ _ * | | > | \ \ / \ / \ / \ | | > \ \ / \/ \/ \ | | > \ \/ / / / / / > \ / / / / \__ / / > / SN / SN / SN / / > / / / / \ / > / / / / \_____/ > \ /\ /\ / > \_/ \_/ \_/ > > You should get the same effect with bar magnet cut like this: > > _________________ > \ \ > \ N S \ > \________________\ > * * Here & here too! (always) > _________________ > / / > / S N / > /________________/ > >--------------------------------------snip for below answer--- > SEE: Graph http://frognet.net/~cantino/smot.html > or " ://home.worldonline.nl/~catware/ld2.html One or the other HAS the Graph of SS NN and why NS is 'extreme!' Sorry, I don't have a "browser", so I have to get graphics in ACSII mode / or lynx THEN print them out.. If these are not the right address' let me know. I found them them VERY GOOD Graphics under 'c-show'. > _________________ > \ \ > \ N S \ > \________________\ > > _________________ > / / > / N S / > /________________/ > > None of these look like useful O/U arrangements (of course, > neither does Greg Watson's.) > > -- > - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 02:44:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA18260; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 02:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 02:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:38:42 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970604174250.28376230 po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8 po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mpower Subject: Re: Chevron arrnagement Resent-Message-ID: <"dvE5b2.0.AT4._YJbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7888 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde posted the following (edited for brevity) at 22:24 1997.06.03 -1000: > >Anyone have any idea where a guy could acquire a small supply of ferrite >powder? My driveway needs repaving... no, really - I want to try casting >some epoxy-ferrite spheres. I can take a silicone mold of a nice smooth >bearing, see how that works. I want to explore effects in the weaker >fields, but the slightly magnetized balls make that impossible. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > Go down to the shipyard and find someone who's 'chipping' a vessel prior to painting it - you might also look for a vessl being sandblasted - you can generally peel some old ferrites out of the the backwash. Another idea: get some old floppy discs and give them a whirl through a shredding machine. might not be as effective, though. ********************************************************** * http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 ******** ********************************************************** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 03:06:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA14203; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 02:51:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 02:51:01 -0700 Date: 04 Jun 97 05:49:42 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Chevron arrnagement Message-ID: <970604094942_100433.1541_BHG46-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"BZ8tz3.0.rT3.4gJbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7889 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Rick, > Anyone have any idea where a guy could acquire a small supply of > ferrite powder? Just pound down an antenna rod. Except ... they do saturate at low field strengths. I've got some high-flux density ferrite, but I think airmail would be a bit slow. But, Rick, why bother? If you can cast such things, you should use iron powder as your material. No question of magnetisation, saturation, or losses worth a damn at these 'frequencies'. But at least with the ferrite antenna you get to use what I am sure is the favourite weapon of every true Vortexian - the four-pound lump hammer. Congratulations to Greg on the return of his HD!!! I have to apologise to Martin Sevior, to whom I accidentally assigned a post he didn't make - that one was from Robert Eachus. And on the matter of simulations indicating OU, it seems this is disputed. But I still think Greg is basing his designs on his mag simulations - which may or may not suggest anomalous behaviour, depending upon whom you ask. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 03:52:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA18612; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 03:39:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 03:39:39 -0700 Message-ID: <339544B9.4390 microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 20:04:33 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT, Where are WE Now? Where are WE Going? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cY5KN2.0.kY4.gNKbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7890 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, Just a review on the SMOT project from my viewpoint : Achieved my many to date : 1) Single SMOT Ramp works. Start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm. >>>> At one time many said this was not possible!!!!!! 2) Multi linked SMOT Ramp works. Start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm, start at 0mm, climb to 12mm, drop to 0mm Some have achieved up to 6 linked ramps, my best is 4. I didn't try more. >>>> Again, even at this stage, some had doubts that linking would work. Next Stage to Achieve : 3) Multi SMOT Ramp linkage with incremental lift by 6mm overall (1.5mm per ramp) inclined ramp base method : Start at 0.0mm, climb to 13.5mm, drop to 1.5mm, Start at 1.5mm, climb to 15.0mm, drop to 3.0mm, Start at 3.0mm, climb to 16.5mm, drop to 4.5mm, Start at 4.5mm, climb to 18.0mm, drop to 0.0mm and roll away at least 100mm. >>>> Some can't believe this can be done. This can be done, I have done it. It is the door to closing. If you have achieved the 0,12,0,12,0 linking it only requires just a 12% increase in individual ramp height. I have got 15mm of lift out of a single SMOT ramp, so 13.5 is with-in the envelope. Mount the linked SMOT ramps on a base board and slowly lift the exit end while adjusting the ramps. At a 18mm final drop and a 6mm curved receptor on the lower ramp, the ball will roll away at least 100mm. When you get there and YOU can, closing is one small 0.5mm incremental lift increase away! At a 20mm final drop, the ball WILL return and loop via the "N" gauge track. >>>> This will cause the world to change. And you will have done it! BUT don't go too fast, use the ramps mounted firmly on a base board approach to gradually increase the final drop from 12mm to 18mm and then 20mm. Its the ONLY way. It can be done. My Very Best to YOU all, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 05:56:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA31216; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 05:44:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 05:44:22 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:43:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970604084331_71031477 emout01.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Frank Close's Notion Resent-Message-ID: <"InESO1.0.gd7.bCMbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7891 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jed, What was that about Frank Close's theory of deep electron bonds? Where did he float that idea? It sounds pretty radical for a mainstream skeptic. Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 07:19:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA11516; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:05:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:05:48 -0700 Message-ID: <33957657.6613 interlaced.net> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:06:15 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Chevron arrangement References: <33948501.F423CD9A verisoft.com.tr> <33949B5C.2C58@microtronics.com.au> <3394F063.2F61@skypoint.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rkcy52.0.pp2.xONbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7892 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Logajan wrote: > > Hamdi Ucar gave us the chevron ascii graphics. I added some field > lines. > (snip) > None of these look like useful O/U arrangements (of course, > neither does Greg Watson's.) > My simple chevron toy supports your conclusion, John! Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 07:21:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA13300; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:17:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:17:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Steck" Message-Id: <9706040909.ZM13900 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:09:30 -0500 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Hard Drive Killer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"dT8Tw2.0.iF3.AaNbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7893 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Best defense against hard drive failure is a regulated power supply. Dips, lags, surges, and spikes all seriously impact the overall life of your system and it's components (especially hard drives). It is highly recommended that all connected computer equipment be plugged into a universal power supply or a line conditioner and not directly into the power grid. It is also recommended that a separate supply or conditioner be used for all printers as many spikes are created on site by the heating elements in them. (Greg- your printer was probably mad at you for feeding it cheap paper!) You would be very suprised by how variable and nasty the typical supply can get and still be regarded by you local utility as 'normal'. Backups only repair the problem once it happens and down time is usually the biggest expense! Good luck recovering the data. 8^) APC makes good equipment. More info at: -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 07:27:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA14099; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:23:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Steck" Message-Id: <9706040915.ZM13939 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:15:32 -0500 In-Reply-To: Rick Monteverde "Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!!" (Jun 4, 3:54am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"BQ6K13.0.5S3.0fNbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7894 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Jun 4, 3:54am, Rick Monteverde wrote: > Does the N-rail sound practical? Are some of the > cars plastic? I haven't even checked them out yet. N-scale stuff is a pain on large fingers! HO-scale stuff is easier to handle, and more widely available and less expensive (at least around here). Most all of it is plastic these days...... -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 07:32:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA14336; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33957AB0.1D16 interlaced.net> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:24:49 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: the Cloak of Complexity References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OI77R2.0.wV3.3hNbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7895 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > > Well, we don't have long to wait to find out, at least about SMOT. Greg > has published how to close the loop. Any loop closings attempted yet? > Yeh, Horace! And I'm still waiting for Scott to get a "clean" same-level roll-a-way with his SMOTs. Frank Stenger - both feet on a ladder in the kitchen. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 07:41:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA15986; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:33:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert I. Eachus" Message-Id: <199706041433.KAA08918 spectre.mitre.org> To: gwatson microtronics.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com In-reply-to: <33953033.CC7 microtronics.com.au> (message from Greg Watson on Wed, 04 Jun 1997 18:36:59 +0930) Subject: Re: HD is now working!!!!!!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"g7eoW1.0.iv3.DqNbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7897 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Don't forget your "modern" computer almost certainly has non-parity RAM that is susceptible to alpha particles. And no, the manufacturer is not being cheap. With modern DRAMs, the probability of an incorrect parity check, or even of an incorrect EDAC correction is higher than that of the memory having a temporary glitch. Just accept the fact that one in every few hundred trillion memory references will fail. Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 07:42:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA16430; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:37:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:37:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: 04 Jun 97 10:35:38 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: the Cloak of Complexity Message-ID: <970604143538_100433.1541_BHG93-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"6ogy41.0.d04.qsNbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7898 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hey guys, >One foot on the ground - Scott > > One foot in the air - Horace Yes to both. The man I most respected in computer design once told me you have to keep both feet in the mud, and your head in the clouds. He was right about that. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 07:41:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA16956; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:26:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:26:26 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:26:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert I. Eachus" Message-Id: <199706041426.KAA08905 spectre.mitre.org> To: vortex-l eskimo.com In-reply-to: (message from Rick Monteverde on Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:44:25 -1000) Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"t6wRs2.0.s84.FiNbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7896 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde (monteverde worldnet.att.net) said: > Wow. Well, maybe it's time to abandon the ball for a few > experiments and try a SMOT car - some little low friction > non-steel cart than can ride on a track and carry a cargo > consisting of a ferrite rod or maybe a chevron of magnets. I > passed a hobby store tonight, but had to get to a metting so I > didn't have tiome to stop. Does the N-rail sound practical? Are > some of the cars plastic? I haven't even checked them out yet. Excellent idea. But start with brass trucks with a payload of one ball bearing. If necessary you can arrange the "cart" so that the ball bearing is carried directly between the front two wheels, with a non-ferrous payload in the back for balance. If necessary to "duplicate" all the characteristics of the current device, drill a hole through a ball bearing and thread the axle through--this will give you approximately the same amount of rotational inertia. Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 07:50:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA20537; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:37:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:37:22 -0700 Date: 04 Jun 97 10:35:41 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Frank Close's Notion Message-ID: <970604143540_100433.1541_BHG93-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"Qtb0x2.0.l05.UsNbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7899 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Tom, > What was that about Frank Close's theory of deep electron bonds? > Where did he float that idea? It sounds pretty radical for a > mainstream skeptic. On s.p.f several years ago. It'll be in the s.p.f archives. He proposed it as a mechanism to explain Ni/H "cf". What was so mind-bogglingly bizarre was that he suggested collapse of the *inner* electron shells to a previously unknown low energy state, but showed zero interest in pursuing so improbable a suggestion. That, to me, is an example of path.scep at its finest. You know, dismiss something as trivial by invoking a wholly new branch of science to explain it. It has to be said that Close, perhaps sensing a change in the wind, is a much less "sceptical" man these days - at least in TV science programmes. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 07:52:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA21227; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:39:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:39:36 -0700 Date: 04 Jun 97 10:37:12 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Frank Close's Notion Message-ID: <970604143712_72240.1256_EHB127-3 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"oa65K2.0.MB5.buNbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7900 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex Tom Stolper asks: What was that about Frank Close's theory of deep electron bonds? Where did he float that idea? It sounds pretty radical for a mainstream skeptic. This was on sci.physics.fusion in March 1994. I'll e-mail you a selection of messages from the discussion. It was pretty radical! Pretty harebrained, I would say. Usually, the skeptics rally around any theory on their side, but as I recall even Dick Blue had nothing to say in support of the Close theory. Chris Tinsley asked Close to elaborate, but he never responded. As I understand it, Close takes the energy per electron bond and multiplies it by all electrons in all shells. Maybe Chris will correct me on that. Here is a sample of what Close said: Gordon Powell raised the question of inner shell chemistry as a possible source of heat and noted that this was suggested as a mechanism last year on the net but received no discussion since. Gordon may be referring to a comment I made (tongue partly in cheek) to the effect that the deep bound electrons in heavy atoms such as Pd (or Ni) enable access in principle to energy scales "much greater than chemistry" (where 'chemistry' is usually taken to mean the outer electrons on the milli-eV scale). My point was that anyone who is convinced that power outputs greater than eV per atom have been demonstrated should first consider the possible role of deep bound electrons before concluding that "it must be nuclear". - Frank Close, sci.physics.fusion, "Deep Heat (response to Gordon Powell question), 1 Mar 1994 17:49:25 GMT Some mainstream scientists let themselves go, in some areas. They believe highly speculative ideas which cannot be tested by experiment in cosmology, string theory, microscopic daughter universes and so on. As I see it, they have no objection to wild ideas as long as two conditions are met: 1. The ideas must not be of any practical use to mankind. 2. They must not be a threat to any textbook, establishment theory. String theory applies to a domain far removed from conventional physics. Any conclusion about string theory you want to reach is fine, since it cannot affect ordinary physics and it cannot be tested. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 07:57:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA19886; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33957C91.91034A66 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 18:32:49 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Re: Rogue SMOT XY Plot X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"D4tuD3.0.cs4.f6Obp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7901 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg, thank you lot. I did not very carefully read the previous literature about the sims, but this XY graph is more realistic when Y axis is interpreted as Flux Density gradient (dB/dX) instead of flux density (B). If it is so the integral of the gradient is positive inside and the flux is always increased in the X direction (start to exit). After looking the sims I made a magnetic probe to measure the strength and the direction of the fields. It is a small Nd cylinderic magnet of 5 mm diameter and 3 mm height. I fixed it radially on a pen point. I both observed the the torque on the magnet while by forcing the poles making angles to the field and the overall forces applied to the probe. I made a setup of 2 x 10 magnets of total 15cm long arrays. I arranged individual magnet angles to 45 degree to the track. The distance between arrays is 25mm. Probing with the ball first showed that the middle way on the track have zero field ingredient., And not forwarding the ball. The Nd magnet probe also show the strengh of the field (the torque and the linear forces)dis not dropping anywhere inside the track. The probe also showed the polarity of the field inverse just before the start point. As a result static examination of the field give me nodirect information about prabable non conservative effects. I think a ball rolling experimet on a longer than 50 cm arrays will give unambigius result about the energy conservation criteria. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 10:14:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA15567; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:01:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:01:20 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970604130013_1823285275 emout17.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l eskimo.com cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Curved Magnetic Ramps Resent-Message-ID: <"HVJsx2.0.0p3.VzPbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7902 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, If your are interested in Qfield simulations of a Curved Magnetic Ramps which shows magnetic field display, graphics of Flux density and Energy density along the path of a steel ball....look at : http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/rgen2mfd.htm Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 11:05:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA27877; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:53:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:53:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3395AB0C.1569 skylink.net> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:51:08 -0700 From: Robert Stirniman X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Frank Close's Notion References: <970604143712_72240.1256_EHB127-3 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JejlY3.0.Vp6.-jQbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7903 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > Some mainstream scientists let themselves go, in some areas. They believe > highly speculative ideas which cannot be tested by experiment in cosmology, > string theory, microscopic daughter universes and so on. As I see it, they > have no objection to wild ideas as long as two conditions are met: > 1. The ideas must not be of any practical use to mankind. > 2. They must not be a threat to any textbook, or establishment theory. 3. They must be sufficiently complicated to provide stimulating mathematical masturbation and endlessly deep distraction for brilliant physicists who might otherwise work on real things. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 13:29:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA11645; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:23:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970604174250.28376230 po.pacific.net.sg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:21:04 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Chevron arrnagement Resent-Message-ID: <"uT92g2.0.qr2.iwSbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7904 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mpower - > Go down to the shipyard and find someone who's > 'chipping' a vessel prior to painting it - you might > also look for a vessl being sandblasted - you can > generally peel some old ferrites out of the the > backwash. GMTA - I thought of that, but didn't know if the bits from the sandblast were really "ferrite", or just nasty rust. I can magnetically separate it from the blast grit is suppose, and concentrate it. Thanks for the tip! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 13:32:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA12014; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:25:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:25:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970604094942_100433.1541_BHG46-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:22:46 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Chevron arrnagement Resent-Message-ID: <"veozF3.0.ex2.xySbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7905 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris - > If you can cast such things, you should use iron > powder as your material. That's whatI'll use. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 14:08:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA13751; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:41:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:41:19 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199706040800.BAA06522 norway.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:37:08 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Cunningham Patent 4,443,776 Resent-Message-ID: <"GQ8BE.0.nM3.kBTbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7906 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael - > I built a pair of 1x23 parallel mag assay 190mm > long and the ball traveled the lenght. Did the ball appear to have a slower net speed during the trip down this long ramp than it does on a shorter ramp of the same geometry, spacing from the rail, etc.? It's an important question which goes to the usefulness of this sort of design. If the magnetic 'potential' between the ends of two different arrays - one long array and one short - are the same, the ball should travel well through the shorter array, and slower through the longer array. This would mean that with an array beyond a certain length but still having that same potential difference between its ends, the ball would not see enough of this potential difference per linear unit to make the trip because it would have fallen behind the power curve, so to speak. That is *if* there's no net 'magic' or OU coming into the system continuously along the array to help keep the ball going. Case #1 (no magic) longer arrays stretch the magnetic potential difference too thin and the ball won't go. Case #2 (magic) longer arrays still work because there's mysterious energy in the form of "watsons" coming into the system. IMO, it would be a good conventional/OU test for this kind of array, and might save people the trouble of trying to build a Cunningham type of rotary device which would then have no chance of working if case #1 is what is observed. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 15:28:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA04550; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:26:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:26:08 -0700 Message-ID: <3395E6F1.5815 microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 07:36:41 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Ramp SIzes Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1D454A2251EA" Resent-Message-ID: <"4eaS9.0.m61.yjUbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7907 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1D454A2251EA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I have attached a Gif showing why shorter ramps work better than longer ramps. The theory is based on actual experimentation. It assumes the top and bottom spacing are the same between the two ramps. Basically it goes like this : We compare two SMOT ramps, one with an 8 magnet long array and a second with a 4 magnet long array. The spacing at the top and bottom on the second shorter ramp are the same as the longer ramp. We build the longer ramp first and observe its operational characteristics. In other words we get it to work. We then build the second shorter ramp and compare. The first thing we notice is that the second ramps slope is twice as steep as the first ramps slope. How can we ever get a ball up that steeper ramp as we had to spend a lot of time adjusting the first long but not as steep ramp? When we place a ball on the shorter ramp, we find that not only does it climb the steeper incline but it also does it faster. Weird? This is because the shorter ramp causes more flux differential to be developed across the ball. Study the attached Gif to understand why. Pull is related to the square of the flux differential across the ball. This means that by shortening the ramp by half, we now have 4 times as much pull on the ball. The ramp is now twice as steep so half of the new energy is lost there. But we still have extra energy. So what to do with this extra energy? We also have reduced frictional losses as well! We increase the spacing of the magnets at the top and achieve a easier to exit ramp! Increasing the spacing of the top magnets drops the strength of the top "Bounce back magnetic wall" and makes ALL the adjustments much easier. Increasing the ramps incline has an additional effect in that it creates a increased spacing between the top of the first ramps magnet arrays and the bottom of the second ramps magnet arrays. This improves ramp linking as less adjustments are required to get a link working. Hope all this makes sense and helps those of you having linking problems. Remember, our goal at the monent is NOT to link ramps in a circle, but to use linked ramps to INCREASE the final release height and get a equal height, level ball rollaway. 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mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA05805; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:31:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:31:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199706042230.XAA12519 tycho.global.net.uk> From: "Cyber Computer Networks Ltd." To: Subject: SMOT Kits Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:20:47 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VYpHf2.0.UQ1.joUbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7908 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Greg, Sorry to hear about your HD failure. Want a new 2.6 fujitsu IDE mode 4, I'll swap it for a working closed loop SMOT kit :) I cannot get my ramp to drop the ball on the flat and run out. It must be dropped below the ramp start height and I am worried that during the drop through the blue hole it loses some energy to the pull back up effect. So if I cannot get if to run out flat then there is little point in building a two ramp version yet or is it? But it does go uphill about 8 mm! or about 3 degrees from the level. I am using two sims made of computer case blanking plates with 6 off 2cm circular fridge magnets taped to them. These two sims are rubber banded to a 11cm piece of 22mm copper tube, with six pieces of 4mm balsa strips to pack the sims away from the tubing, 4 at one end and 2 at the other. 19mm steel ball bearing. Will the SMOT kits run as a closed loop? What is the longest the SMOT kit has run for? I would like to have a go at the RMOD device so will you be posting any details on this device yet or near future? Does the RMOD use curved sims? Does the RMOD use a series of ball bearings mounted on a rotor. How is the work on the RMOD 2 coming on? If it is running how long has it run for ? If I could get a closed loop running for more than 1 rev then I would chuffed to bits and probaly not sleep for a week, and I look forward to that day, it would be like all my birthdays and christmas's arriving at once. PS Has anyone had any success with the chevron arrangement? Rob King (shared internet connection) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 15:34:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA06492; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:33:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:33:49 -0700 Date: 04 Jun 97 18:32:08 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Cunningham Patent 4,443,776 Message-ID: <970604223207_100433.1541_BHG72-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"2OFMQ3.0.Mb1.BrUbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7909 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Rick, For what it's worth, and it is probably worth very little, my sporadic ventures into the chevron arrangements have shown fascinating effects - but nothing weird-looking when I've studied them more carefully. I'm not denying anyone else's findings, simply saying that I can't see them. On the other hand the behaviour of my primitive SMOT ramps *is* very odd indeed. Naturally I'm making no claims for genuine weirdness, but I repeat that nobody with an enquiring mind could (after seeing it go) fail to be determined to get to the bottom of what is happening. I concur entirely with Greg when he says that you get a spine-tingler and realise that (a) the end result is inevitably a "weird" machine, and (b) that (a) is not possible. And there were two of us watching it do its thing. Soo isn't easily impressed - as you will have seen on the CIS forums she has frequented - and she was seriously impressed, the more so since *she* got it to work. As a result, we've decided that our main problem is the "string and sealing-wax" nature of the design. Maybe Greg can handle all those pins, and balls flying everywhere upsetting carefully aligned magnets. We can't. So we've now got four *very* carefully made 12.5*12.5mm channel ramps - polished tracks, S-bend exits, linking notches, the whole bit; and tomorrow we'll make new bases from Perspex (polymethylmethacrylate), with upwards-projecting bolts with wing-nuts to secure the magnet-support plates. At least we should then have a controllable device. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 15:52:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA02950; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3395EB61.1241E2D4 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 02:25:37 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Re: SMOT Ramp SIzes X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1PbCE3.0.xj.x1Vbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7910 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Morning, My magnets sizes are 40 x 25 x 10. Did you recommend 80 mm long stacks instead of 120 mm which I am using currently? Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 16:02:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA11239; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:00:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:00:22 -0700 From: hamdix verisoft.com.tr Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:44:14 -0500 Message-Id: <9706042144.AA05106 rainbow.verisoft.com.tr> Resent-Message-ID: <"D6W6i3.0.Wl2.5EVbp" mx1> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7911 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 16:10:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA13022; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:07:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:07:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199706042307.QAA12977 mx1.eskimo.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Ben Tammetta" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:04:30 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: My SMOTS don't link anymore? Reply-to: ben tammetta.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.32.19970602232717.00b21c60 mail.localaccess.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"nMLzI1.0.KB3.zKVbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7912 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, Epitaxy wrote: > BTW: I did managed to get 4 NDFeB SMOT ramps linked reliably with great > effort, but did not close the loop. The "leakage" attraction from the Do you have pictures... I have linked 2... But when I built more and reconnected the old ones none worked... I can't figure out why they will no longer work... (linked) nothing has significantly changed... (slight adjustments maybe... ...very slight) The 2 ramps work independently of one another fairly well... but when I slide them together.. the second ramp fails completely... the ball will not move up the track........ the 1st ramp nullifies the second in some way, totally distorts the field or weakens it. I have gone back to look at my pictures.. to verify my arrangments are the same as before... and tried adjusting for hours. I''m baffled Any pointers? Greg ? Why did my first one work? http://www.clubelite.com/fe ben clubelite.com ############################ # Ben Tammetta # # ben interactive.ibm.com # ############################ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 16:34:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA16897; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:31:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:31:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3395F820.1472 microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 08:50:00 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: The GOAL References: <970604223207_100433.1541_BHG72-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5Mecx2.0.174.WhVbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7913 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > Rick, > > For what it's worth, and it is probably worth very little, my sporadic > ventures into the chevron arrangements have shown fascinating effects - > but nothing weird-looking when I've studied them more carefully. I'm > not denying anyone else's findings, simply saying that I can't see them. > > On the other hand the behaviour of my primitive SMOT ramps *is* very > odd indeed. Naturally I'm making no claims for genuine weirdness, but I > repeat that nobody with an enquiring mind could (after seeing it go) > fail to be determined to get to the bottom of what is happening. I > concur entirely with Greg when he says that you get a spine-tingler and > realise that (a) the end result is inevitably a "weird" machine, and (b) > that (a) is not possible. > > And there were two of us watching it do its thing. Soo isn't easily > impressed - as you will have seen on the CIS forums she has frequented > - and she was seriously impressed, the more so since *she* got it to > work. > > As a result, we've decided that our main problem is the "string and > sealing-wax" nature of the design. Maybe Greg can handle all those > pins, and balls flying everywhere upsetting carefully aligned > magnets. I can't either, see below. > We can't. So we've now got four *very* carefully made > 12.5*12.5mm channel ramps - polished tracks, S-bend exits, linking > notches, the whole bit; and tomorrow we'll make new bases from > Perspex (polymethylmethacrylate), with upwards-projecting bolts with > wing-nuts to secure the magnet-support plates. > > At least we should then have a controllable device. A more controllable device. > Chris Hi Chris, The latest improvement in the SMOT ramp kits is screw adjustable spacing and SHORTED ramps. Please read my earlier posting on ramp length. Chris, remember the point of linking SMOT ramps is NOT to drive the ball further along but to use incremental lift increases to achieve a increased final lift and drop height that will result in a ball rollaway. It doesn't really matter how many ramps you use, but the less the better. I can get a rollaway with 2 ramps. I find with my original ramp design, I need approx 18mm final lift and drop height to get a 100mm ball rollaway. Seems you need about 1.5 x the diameter of the ball drop to do this. I agree with better mechanical stability, things get better. I found that in mounting the ramps on a flat board, things improve out of sight and the board is the ideal way to increase drop height by SLOWLY incresing the elevation at the exit end. Try it, it works. And REMEMBER the GOAL. Increased final drop through small incremental ramp lifts to achieve a equal height, level ball rollaway to 100mm. THEN a 1.5 to 2mm increase in drop height. THEN use the "N" gauge ball return system to close. It WORKS! Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 16:39:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA20539; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:37:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:37:07 -0700 Message-ID: <3395FB9B.677D microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 09:04:51 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: My SMOTS don't link anymore? References: <199706042307.QAA12977 mx1.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ynsoi.0.W05.WmVbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7914 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ben Tammetta wrote: > > Hi, > > Epitaxy wrote: > > BTW: I did managed to get 4 NDFeB SMOT ramps linked reliably with great > > effort, but did not close the loop. The "leakage" attraction from the > > Do you have pictures... I have linked 2... But when I built more and > reconnected the old ones none worked... > > I can't figure out why they will no longer work... (linked) > nothing has significantly changed... > (slight adjustments maybe... ...very slight) > > The 2 ramps work independently of one another fairly well... but when > > I slide them together.. the second ramp fails completely... the ball will > not move up the track........ the 1st ramp nullifies the second in > some way, totally distorts the field or weakens it. Suggest the positions of the magnets on the ramps (up and down) have altered. This sound like a case of the linked ramps being too close. There is an optimal distance for linking. Too close and the first ramp is effected too much to adjust out, too far and the second ramps mag field is not strong enough to pull the ball away from the first. It your inter ramp linking is fixed physically, I suggest that the magnets themselves may be too close, first pair too far up the first ramp or second pair too far down the second ramp. You can move the magnets up and down the ramp quite away and still get good individual ramp operation but on linking, the magnet positions up and down become more critical. If you adjust each ramp to obtain the max lift it can do, the magnet positions up and down have to be spot on and linking is much easier. As we decrease the lift on a ramp, the end spacing stays critical, but the magnets can slide further up and down the ramp without really effecting the ramp. SO, to get good linking, first adjust for max height (Shim the exit up) and then link. > I have gone back to look at my pictures.. to verify > my arrangments are the same as before... and tried adjusting for > hours. I''m baffled > > Any pointers? > Greg ? > > Why did my first one work? > > http://www.clubelite.com/fe > > ben clubelite.com Hi Ben, Hope the above helps. Remember, adjust for max lift, drop the lift somewhat and then link. Try to get some of the magnet viewing paper we have talked about, Epitaxy says its great as it allows him to see the fields and he can get 4 Neo based ramps linked and working in 45 minutes (down from 8 HOURS). I will include some with every SMOT kit. Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 16:41:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA21262; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:38:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:38:39 -0700 Date: 04 Jun 97 19:36:31 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Re: SMOT Ramp SIzes Message-ID: <970604233631_100433.1541_BHG38-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"lEkJU2.0.0C5.ynVbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7915 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg, > This means that by shortening the ramp by half, we now have 4 > times as much pull on the ball. The ramp is now twice as steep so > half of the new energy is lost there. But we still have extra > energy. So what to do with this extra energy? We also have > reduced frictional losses as well! > > We increase the spacing of the magnets at the top and achieve a > easier to exit ramp! Yup. Why didn't I (and perhaps some others here) think of this? "Answers on a postcard, please." Chris (grrrr) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 17:06:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA26275; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:03:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:03:24 -0700 Date: 04 Jun 97 19:57:47 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Re: The GOAL Message-ID: <970604235746_100433.1541_BHG41-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"N3jYr2.0.OQ6.99Wbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7916 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg, > The latest improvement in the SMOT ramp kits is screw adjustable > spacing and SHORTED ramps. OK. What would you suggest I shorten to? I'm now at magnet arrays of 100mm length and 10mm high. 16mm of layers, 4mm of steel backing. My ramps are (along their slope) 86mm. I'd really appreciate an answer, because I could shorten these ramps before I make the bases tomorrow (UK time). Yes, I do appreciate the goal of all this. Get the ball rolling free at the same level and then raise that level a couple of mm. And I can see that tipping the support board up is the right way to do that. Regards, Chris (off to bed) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 17:37:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA15823; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: "Scudder,Henry J" To: Barry Merriman , Greg Watson , Vortex-L Subject: RE: $200 SMOT Offer Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:19:00 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tMUQ03.0.6t3.qRWbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7917 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry, Greg Can you think of a good way to measure the initial enegy released by the magnet when you move the ball up to it when you are starting the whole SMOT? To acheive true O/U the system must give this energy back. I was thinking you could put the ball on a spring scale at infinity, measuring the energy stored in the scale as you move the ball and spring scale system up to the starting point of the SMOT. device. 1/2*k*d^2 on the spring. Or maybe lift the ball against gravity with the magnet, and compute the potential energy ? Hank Scudder ---------- From: Barry Merriman To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: $200 SMOT Offer Date: Tuesday, June 03, 1997 7:58PM I'll pay $200 if someone will send me a fully functional closed loop SMOT. This means it must be shipped in a form that can be fully assembled in < 1 hour, and once assembled it must run in a closed loop mode with the ball making at least 100 unaided transits and at least 10 minutes of continuous run time. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 17:57:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA20362 for billb@eskimo.com; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:57:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: starship fc.net Wed Jun 4 17:56:55 1997 Received: from freeside.fc.net (freeside.fc.net [207.170.70.2]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA20310; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:56:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from starship localhost) by freeside.fc.net (8.8.5/8.6.6) id TAA04731; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:54:20 -0500 (CDT) Old-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:54:19 -0500 (CDT) From: John Fields Subject: Re: Online project status [FREE Energy Quest (webpage) ] To: tammetta mindspring.com cc: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <19970601180459859.AAA281 jumanji> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: vortex-l Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 2 Jun 1997, Ben Tammetta wrote: > Ok, here it is, > This will revolutionize the way we collaborate and share information. > > http://www.clubelite.com/fe/ > > Online FREE Energy Device Status ( Using WebTrack) > > Now everyone can post and update information on their own FREE > Energy Device or SMOT project so everyone can see. > > I spent all my morning (5 hours) writting this program instead of > closing the loop.... So Everyone better try it out and make use of > it. :) > > Let me know if you find any bugs/errors, have suggestions, or > comments Thanks, > Ben > ben clubelite.com > > http://www.clubelite.com/fe/ > > > > > ###################### > # Ben Tammetta # > # ben clubelite.com # > ###################### > > ------------------------ A comment: Said Ben to the Universe: "I exist." Said the Universe to Ben: "That incurs no responsibility on my part." John Fields ----------- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 18:04:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA08003; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:59:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:59:53 -0700 Message-ID: <33960F0B.67C8 microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 10:27:48 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: The GOAL References: <970604235746_100433.1541_BHG41-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3bbRc.0.ry1.8-Wbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7918 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > Greg, > > > The latest improvement in the SMOT ramp kits is screw adjustable > > spacing and SHORTED ramps. > > OK. What would you suggest I shorten to? I'm now at magnet arrays > of 100mm length and 10mm high. 16mm of layers, 4mm of steel backing. > > My ramps are (along their slope) 86mm. > > I'd really appreciate an answer, because I could shorten these ramps > before I make the bases tomorrow (UK time). > > Yes, I do appreciate the goal of all this. Get the ball rolling free > at the same level and then raise that level a couple of mm. And I can > see that tipping the support board up is the right way to do that. > > Regards, > > Chris > (off to bed) Hi Chris, I am experimenting with 78 and 52mm long arrays (6 and 4 magnets). The ramps are 13-15mm shorter than the array lengths. The 4 magnet arrays (52mm long) seem to be the go, but I will report back soon........ Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 18:13:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA11921; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:09:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:09:36 -0700 Message-ID: <3396114D.5DC7 microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 10:37:25 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Systematic SMOT experiments References: <3390DC62.6E61 microtronics.com.au> <3394D46F.627A@math.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_vkqV.0.6w2.D7Xbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7919 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: > > Question for Greg: have you done any systematic experiments > on your functional SMOT to measure the effects of eddy loss, > hysteresis loss, or to characterize its performsance envelope? > > You could argue that you are instead spending your > time teaching other folks how to build one. That is admirable, > but it would not take much time to characterize some simple > aspects of your functioning SMOT, like how long it runs > before it stops, how fast the ball travels, how great are the > accelerations, how far your ball will run on a straight flat > track with magnets || to track (as a measure of eddy current loss), > etc. > > In short, you might want to report some systematic observations > in parallel to teaching others how to build the device. That > would shorten the pipeline rather than waiting for others to > get a functioning unit (which, personally, I'm guessing will > only happen if you sell a kit to build such). > -- > Barry Merriman Hi Barry, I am working to improve the performance envelope of the SMOT ramp kitss now. Shorter ramps, screw based adjustments, wider adjustment margins and reduced frictional losses. I am now experimenting with the "N" gauge track to replace the Alum "U" channel and kill any of the eddy currents flowing through the ball and track circuit. A modified design will be released soon with performance details. Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 18:21:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA13025; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:11:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:11:54 -0700 Message-ID: <339611D0.7776 microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 10:39:36 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: $200 SMOT Offer References: <33938019.78BD math.ucla.edu> <3393A281.225@skypoint.com> <3394D9EF.28EE@math.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YBr803.0.0B3.I9Xbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7920 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: > > I'll pay $200 if someone will send me a fully functional > closed loop SMOT. This means it must be shipped in a form > that can be fully assembled in < 1 hour, and once assembled it must run > in a closed loop mode with the ball making at least 100 > unaided transits and at least 10 minutes of continuous run time. > > -- > Barry Merriman Hi Barry, I am working on a improved SMOT kit at present. The goal is to guarantee closed loop operation. The price will stay at $150 Australian. Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 18:35:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA21008; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:32:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:32:05 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:31:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706050131.UAA17573 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: SMOT despair Resent-Message-ID: <"tdr3u3.0.785.JSXbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7921 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: We got our taller magnets today (only 9.0mm high instead of 9.7mm like Greg's) and made new magnet arrays and succeeded in making a single ramp on which a 12mm ball would start at 0mm, roll up to 12mm, then fall down our S-shaped exit onto a second level channel at 0mm height. But no amount of fiddling/adjusting would cause the ball to roll away from the end of the ramp by itself. In fact, the ball is rather firmly attracted to the ends of the magnets. Greg, aren't we supposed to be able to achieve a one-ramp level roll away? That would be a positive indication of o-u to me...but I can't get it to happen. Has anyone else achieved a one-ramp level roll away? Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 18:49:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA29815; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:45:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:45:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3396196B.5D12 microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 11:12:03 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT Ramp SIzes References: <3395EB61.1241E2D4 verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nqDTM3.0.kH7.neXbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7922 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hamdi Ucar wrote: > > Morning, > > My magnets sizes are 40 x 25 x 10. Did you recommend 80 mm long stacks > instead of 120 mm which I am using currently? > > Regards, > > Hamdi Ucar Hi Hamdi, I recommend experimentation. I am currently testing 78mm (6 x 13mm magnets) and 52mm (4 x 13mm magnets) mag arrays. So far the results show the 52mm array works better. The magnet spacing can then be increased, resulting in an even easier exit. Sounds to good to be true. Less magnet, less ramp and frictional losses and easier exits. But hey, I keep saying that any real Ou device will have operational characteristics that are the reverse to normal experience and expectation. Still testing. Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 19:35:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA05219; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:32:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:32:25 -0700 Message-ID: <3396240C.2FB0 microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 11:57:24 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Rollaway Test Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------23F682460A6" Resent-Message-ID: <"BgMf02.0.IH1.tKYbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7923 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------23F682460A6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I have attached a GIF showing how I determined the drop height I needed to get a 100mm rollaway. Once I knew the drop height, I had a goal to shoot for. Do this on your SMOT ramps and you will then know how much drop height you must achieve to get a equal height, level rollaway. 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1997 19:32:33 -0700 Message-ID: <339624A0.1550 microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 11:59:52 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: newman-l emachine.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Systematic SMOT experiments References: <3390DC62.6E61 microtronics.com.au> <3394D46F.627A@math.ucla.edu> <3396114D.5DC7@microtronics.com.au> <339619A8.E29@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NzSj-2.0.aI1.0LYbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7924 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dave DeLeo wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > I am now experimenting with the "N" gauge track to replace the Alum "U" > > channel and kill any of the eddy currents flowing through the ball and > > track circuit. > > > > A modified design will be released soon with performance details. > > > > Greg > > I have been using track instead of U channel for a few days now.... It > seems to have much less frictional loss and is a hell of alot easier to > link to the return track..... Just notch the straight piece w/ a > hacksaw near the end to bend it down to aid in release.... > > Dave Hi Dave, My thoughts as well. Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 19:40:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA05971; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:34:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:34:42 -0700 Message-ID: <33962541.3FC7 microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 12:02:33 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT despair References: <199706050131.UAA17573 natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1ELPw1.0.2T1._MYbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7925 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > We got our taller magnets today (only 9.0mm high instead of 9.7mm like > Greg's) and made new magnet arrays and succeeded in making a single ramp on > which a 12mm ball would start at 0mm, roll up to 12mm, then fall down our > S-shaped exit onto a second level channel at 0mm height. But no amount of > fiddling/adjusting would cause the ball to roll away from the end of the > ramp by itself. In fact, the ball is rather firmly attracted to the ends of > the magnets. > > Greg, aren't we supposed to be able to achieve a one-ramp level roll away? > That would be a positive indication of o-u to me...but I can't get it to happen. > > Has anyone else achieved a one-ramp level roll away? > > Scott Little Hi Scott, Do the rollaway test I have posted. Then use one or two ramps to get that drop height. It will roll away. Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 19:43:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA07941; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:41:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:41:20 -0700 Message-ID: <339626D1.1E04 microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 12:09:13 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT despair References: <199706050131.UAA17573 natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R6A7.0.-x1.DTYbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7927 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > We got our taller magnets today (only 9.0mm high instead of 9.7mm like > Greg's) and made new magnet arrays and succeeded in making a single ramp on > which a 12mm ball would start at 0mm, roll up to 12mm, then fall down our > S-shaped exit onto a second level channel at 0mm height. But no amount of > fiddling/adjusting would cause the ball to roll away from the end of the > ramp by itself. In fact, the ball is rather firmly attracted to the ends of > the magnets. > > Greg, aren't we supposed to be able to achieve a one-ramp level roll away? Not with the SMOT ramp as designed. I have done that, but its a real pain. The linked ramps allow incremental lift height gain. > That would be a positive indication of o-u to me...but I can't get it to happen. > > Has anyone else achieved a one-ramp level roll away? I have had 3 or 4 others confirm rollaways, but I should let them speak for themselves. > Scott Little Hi Scott, Do the rollaway experiment I have just posted. It will give you a drop height to shoot for. Once the goal is known, success is just another adjustment away, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 19:45:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA07170; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:39:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:39:18 -0700 Date: 04 Jun 97 22:37:36 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: ANS meeting / ABC schedule Message-ID: <970605023735_72240.1256_EHB92-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"2vEw1.0.vl1.LRYbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7926 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex Gene Mallove reports from Florida that the ANS cold fusion session went well. There were talks by Patterson, Claytor, Hora, Miley and Dash, and brief statement by Bockris. Patterson described remediation experiments in which uranium and thorium is implanted in beads, and radioactivity is reduced by 90%. I know few details. Appearently, the radioactive elements are transmuted into other elements, not necessarily the normal decay products. The audience for the seminar was small, 40 or 50 people, but they were polite and interested. Sources at ABC say that the CETI cold fusion segment is now scheduled for Good Morning American, June 11, probably in the first half of the program. I do not know if they intend to repeat it on Nightline. Please note that broadcast news schedules change frequently. I am sure they will broadcast the segment sooner or later. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 20:04:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA12539; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:02:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:02:31 -0700 Date: 04 Jun 97 22:59:58 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: SMOT despair Message-ID: <970605025957_76016.2701_JHC148-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"GUKKl3.0.m33.5nYbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7928 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott asked: >>Has anyone else achieved a one-ramp level roll away?<< Yeah, but with varying layer of magnets. I have not build Greg's design. It only takes a minute. Create a two rows of four magnets. Then stack three deep on each of the exit pair. Now, bridge the middle two with a single magnet. Place your rows parallel to the track. It will roll away significantly after exiting a level ramp. Like this: __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __________ __________ ===> __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Not really an ego enhancement -- just the easiest way I could get it to work mechanically. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 21:44:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA25739; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33963F66.987 microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 13:54:06 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Terry Blanton's "Blue Alley" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2B145A347BC8" Resent-Message-ID: <"ociPb.0.wH6.F4abp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7929 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2B145A347BC8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Attached is a Gif (Flux and XY Plot) of Terry Blanton's SMOT variation. It looks very interesting. I will build a unit to confirm Terry's rollaway claim. He may have come up with a really good design. Will report back. 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gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Terry Blanton's "Blue Alley" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------8771AE53EDD" Resent-Message-ID: <"2OAyR1.0.Ld7.u3abp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7930 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8771AE53EDD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Here is the XY plot of Terry's SMOT variation. The XY plot looks superior to my SMOT design. 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VAA28650; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706050448.XAA07677 dsm7.dsmnet.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Dean T. Miller" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:46:22 (-050 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Real Time SMOT sims] Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199706040305.WAA15412 dsm7.dsmnet.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Resent-Message-ID: <"CmAw7.0.Z_6.mLabp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7931 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Greg had asked: > > Anyone know any more about this magic magnetic field analysis paper? > > > > I would like to get a supply and include it in ALL SMOT kits. Should > > help ALL of us better adjust our SMOT ramps. > > American Science & Supply has what they call "Magnetic Film" which is a 25 x > 50 mm (1 x 2 inch) piece consisting of 2 layers of plastic inside which is > laminated a mixture of powdered iron, nickel and steel suspended in oil > droplets. > > It's described on page 19 of their Feb, 1996 catalog (#101) and their catalog > number is 10273 -- each piece is priced at $1.50 US. Dave, on the free energy list, noted that Edmund Scientific also had some (though they disguised it well). It's Edmund's part number T33,447 and is 2 sheets of 4 x 4 inch film for $11.95. Edmund's phone is 609-547-8880 and they are at: Edmund Scientific Company 101 E. Gloucester Pike Barrington NJ 08007 -- Dean -- from Des Moines (KB0ZDF) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 22:08:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA07641; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:04:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:04:41 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706050504.WAA28839 denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Cunningham Patent 4,443,776 Resent-Message-ID: <"yXpD71.0.It1.eZabp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7933 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:37 AM 6/4/97 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Michael - > > > I built a pair of 1x23 parallel mag assay 190mm > > long and the ball traveled the lenght. > >Did the ball appear to have a slower net speed during the trip down this [snip] >Case #1 (no magic) longer arrays stretch the magnetic > potential difference too thin and > the ball won't go. > >Case #2 (magic) longer arrays still work because > there's mysterious energy in the > form of "watsons" coming into the > system. > >IMO, it would be a good conventional/OU test for this kind of array, and >might save people the trouble of trying to build a Cunningham type of >rotary device which would then have no chance of working if case #1 is what >is observed. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI Hi Rick, Looks like Case #1 (no magic). The power output for the effect is less than flea power on a level track, let alone climbing 12mm. Cunningham patent another Red Herring non workable device. Going to try Terry Blanton's "Blue Alley" arrays. Looks very interesting! Maybe can get a level roll away on one ramp or at least get a better linking with the second ramp so as to skip the Blu-Tack. Michael Randall From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 22:09:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA01183; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:04:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706050504.AAA08448 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson microtronics.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: SMOT despair 2 Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"PepTN1.0.PI.Daabp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7932 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 07:36 AM 6/5/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: >Remember, our goal at the monent is NOT to link ramps in a circle, but >to use linked ramps to INCREASE the final release height and get a equal >height, level ball rollaway. This is finally sinking in, Greg. We'll try 2 or 3 linked ramps tomorrow. Struggling against "known facts" - Scott From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 22:41:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA13798; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:39:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:39:01 -0700 Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:38:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706050538.AAA10518 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Rollaway criteria Resent-Message-ID: <"N-Kdp3.0.SN3.r3bbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7934 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 12:09 PM 6/5/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: >Do the rollaway experiment I have just posted. It will give you a drop >height to shoot for. It looks from the drawing as if you don't have any magnets around in this drop-height test. Doesn't that totally invalidate the results. Our balls usually BARELY drop off the end of the ramp because they are so strongly attracted to the upper ends of the magnet array. With no magnets, you could just set the 12mm U-track down flat on the table and push the ball off of it onto the N-gauge track and you'd get a lot more than 100mm rollaway, right? More confused than usual - Scott From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 23:06:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA17885; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:03:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:03:31 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706050603.XAA28750 germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: SMOT despair Resent-Message-ID: <"O6WeX3.0.NN4.oQbbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7935 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Terry, Your design sounds interesting! Can you describe what materials you used in your model? Magnet size? Ball size? Rail size? I would like to try to build a unit. Best Regards, Michael Randall At 10:59 PM 6/4/97 EDT, you wrote: >Scott asked: > >>>Has anyone else achieved a one-ramp level roll away?<< > >Yeah, but with varying layer of magnets. I have not build Greg's design. > >It only takes a minute. Create a two rows of four magnets. Then stack three >deep on each of the exit pair. Now, bridge the middle two with a single magnet. >Place your rows parallel to the track. It will roll away significantly after >exiting a level ramp. Like this: > > __ > __ __ >__ __ __ __ >__________ >__________ ===> >__ __ __ __ > __ __ > __ > >Not really an ego enhancement -- just the easiest way I could get it to work >mechanically. > >Terry > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 23:16:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA18980; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:13:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:13:46 -0700 Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:13:26 +1000 (EST) From: Martin Sevior To: Scott Little cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Rollaway criteria In-Reply-To: <199706050538.AAA10518 natasha.eden.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"mH4fL2.0.Ue4.Pabbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7936 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 5 Jun 1997, Scott Little wrote: > At 12:09 PM 6/5/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: > > >Do the rollaway experiment I have just posted. It will give you a drop > >height to shoot for. > > It looks from the drawing as if you don't have any magnets around in this > drop-height test. Doesn't that totally invalidate the results. Our balls > usually BARELY drop off the end of the ramp because they are so strongly > attracted to the upper ends of the magnet array. > > With no magnets, you could just set the 12mm U-track down flat on the table > and push the ball off of it onto the N-gauge track and you'd get a lot more > than 100mm rollaway, right? > > More confused than usual - Scott > > > Hi Scott, I've also had no luck in linking (though I haven't given it a serious try). For the roll away though I found that a rail 3 mm below the exit of a ramp proving 12-13 mm lift will allow a roll away. My magnets are the same JAYCAR variety Greg uses. I found this by lifting by lifting the the ramp 3 mm above the table on both entry and exit. I can't get enough lift from my crude SMOT ramps to do this in one step and I have not been able to link two ramps at the same height at all. I might try the Blanton arrangement or the short track Greg talked about today while waiting for the kit. I think the Chevron arrangement is a waste of time. Cheers Martin From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 23:48:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA23005; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:46:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:46:50 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706050646.XAA13530 germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"FA6GB.0.Nd5.P3cbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7937 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:57 PM 6/2/97 EDT, Terry Blanton wrote: >Rick asked: > >>>Can you have continuous linking without eventual array convergence or blue >hole drop-through regauging? I think that's what it comes down to.<< > >We might find the answer when we get to see the RMOD. > >I think the rolling resistance plays a huge part in this. I tried my >configuration with a wooden rule instead of the hard plastic and could not get >roll-away on a horizontal rail. Also, to get roll-away, the ball must strike a >rigid surface. I get virtually no roll-away when it strikes corrugated paper. > >Can you say "teflon rails"? If you have any PTFE, try just a smige on your >rail. KY Jelly *does not work*. > >Terry > Hi Terry, When you say strick a ridged surface do you mean when the ball exits to ramp and drops to the start level surface then rolls? Or, when the ball exits the ramp it hits a ridge surface that deflects the ball downward (or left or right) to the table? You mentioned that you could get the ball to exit and roll away on a level track. How did did you do this? How far did it roll away? Michael From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 4 23:57:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA12653; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706050653.XAA15464 germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Cheap SMOT!! Resent-Message-ID: <"FioOB2.0.a53.SBcbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7938 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:17 PM 5/28/97 EDT, Terry Blanton wrote: >Gnorts Vorts! > >Well, it works! > >I did a cheap and dirty SMOT. I took my architect's rule (triangular cross >section and groved on all sides) and propped it between some ceramic tiles left >over from bathroom remodelling. I taped a row of magnets to duct tape. I left >a bit to tape on the edge of the magnets to tape them to the tiles. I got tired >of retaping the magnets to get the correct angle and simply taped them against >the rule. I then added magnets in staggered layers, 4 at the exit on either >side, 3 before that, 2 before that and two sets of one each at the entrance to >give me a gradient. My magnets are about 1" high and my ball is 1/2" dia. steel >bearing. It works best if you elevate the ramp until the top of the ball is >near the top of the magnets. > >I placed the ball on the rule at the entrance and it accelerated down the rule >and exited and rolled off the table. I then elevated the exit end up to 20 >degrees (approx.) and the ball still shot through. It starts from a complete >stop and has momentum left after exiting the SMOT. > >The end of the ramp MUST come before the end of the magnets. Otherwise, the >ball jerks back in reverse and oscillates to a stop. That's the secret, >vertically exiting the field about midway through the last magnet! > >Okay, it works . . . now why? > >Terry > Hi Terry, I missed this message and it answered some questions I sent to you earlier. Sorry. Michael From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 00:15:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA26266; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:13:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:13:37 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC7144.F0B8D0D0 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: SMOT despair Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:10:38 -0700 Encoding: 25 TEXT, 42 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"bbD9K3.0.KQ6.WScbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7939 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sometimes the more I read here the more confused I get. Terry Blanton wrote: >Scott asked: > >>>Has anyone else achieved a one-ramp level roll away?<< > >Yeah, but with varying layer of magnets. I have not build Greg's design. > >It only takes a minute. Create a two rows of four magnets. Then stack three >deep on each of the exit pair. Now, bridge the middle two with a single magnet. >Place your rows parallel to the track. It will roll away significantly after >exiting a level ramp. Like this: "exiting a level ramp" ?? Terry, you're not saying that the *whole ramp* is level, are you? I take the phrase "level roll-away" to mean that the roll-away track is at the same level as the ramp entry - but the ramp itself is inclined. Is that what you've done? Dan Quickert begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(CD'`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0! `(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0 36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`' $```$````,`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````10`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````'9O"UL0&5S:VEM;RYC;VT`4TU4 M4 !V;W)T97 M;$!E"UL0&5S:VEM;RYC;VTG`````@$+, $` M```9````4TU44#I63U)415 M3$!%4TM)34\N0T]-``````,``#D`````"P! M. $````"`?8/`0````0````````",#,!!( !`!$```!213H@4TU/5"!D97-P M86ER`#P%`06 `P`.````S0<&``4````*`"8`! `3`0$ @ ,`#@```,T'!@`% M````! `Q``0`& $!"8 !`"$```!!.3`!X,`0````4```!33510`````!X`'PP!````%P```&1E<75I M8VME`` 0`0```&4` M``!33TU%5$E-15-42$5-3U)%25)%041(15)%5$A%34]214-/3D954T5$24=% M5%1%4E)90DQ!3E1/3E=23U1%.E-#3U1405-+140Z2$%304Y93TY%14Q314%# M2$E%5D5$04].12U2``````(!"1 !````) ,``" #```'!0``3%I&=8A&,$O_ M``H!#P(5`J0#Y 7K`H,`4!,#5 (`8V *P'-E=.XR!@`&PP*#,@/&!Q,"@T8S M`\4"`'!R<1(BFAEHFP#($1L9P*#-1,-+GT*@ C/"=D[&3\R M-1XU`H * 0VQ"V!N9S'\,#,4( L*$O(!T 8``W!K$@`'X>,>AP6@;F9U$? ?8!\06F<2`"X*A0J%5 20H!:@$? G3\\/"?O/H)9'T!H+"!B=05 4P/P'H @=@K >0N 9R\K M4"PP!) JP&8>L&%G\2F =',N)8 ?$!' *G"\(&XC,"WQ`Q ?8$<90/QG)P0@ M#; `D"_ (48H6?9)!4 "(&PB< &0)Z I0=<>L N +A!E,!%#'S$50-$JH71W M;RNQ=P0 +W'W`A (<"^95!:0`Z 5, #0WFL><0G1,C<-L&4K0"+A3Q] $; O M8AZ"97 N4"#I)!!I$%$.YD(1 >=#L@9"M@-6,N0[\JL "0'$ [ M\2^D,BA0"V#^8QZ *8 V436S)!$'0"M@]P,@(M >@,!(N(I\6L2O' M/,$OP :0:6,BL?TSH6$! 20,C #40'G,JG'=H!O > MH"L2*B $`/\K5"W "L ^@TE0'Q STAYSKG WX"> 'J B*V@M+!+_22 _T0> M`Y%+!T\G0#1,4O]+)4J0!X K52DQ4*,K( GP>T! (G M+?-39RY0$?!LYR^ M3&$+ &-L"X )@# 0?DD>8DLA2Z!+(4GB,(%DU2F1/R%<1 .143$`-Z"=!)!T M(W\+(580,S8F 2\=&B:71;4880!=8 ,`$! ``````P`1$ ````! ```#T``0````4```!213H@``````,`#33]-P`` "I$9Q ` end From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 00:19:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA14603; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:17:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970604223207_100433.1541_BHG72-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:15:07 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Cunningham Patent 4,443,776 Resent-Message-ID: <"HkmIO1.0.5a3.lVcbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7940 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris - > So we've now got four *very* carefully made > 12.5*12.5mm channel ramps [...] Sounds good, Chris. I'm glad Soo is getting involved in this and having success. I'm going to be quite busy for a few days, so my own smotting is going to be on the shelf for a bit. Good luck. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 00:26:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA15503; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <339668C2.36D microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:50:34 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Rollaway criteria References: <199706050538.AAA10518 natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_QwSb2.0.5o3.ibcbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7941 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > At 12:09 PM 6/5/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: > > >Do the rollaway experiment I have just posted. It will give you a drop > >height to shoot for. > > It looks from the drawing as if you don't have any magnets around in this > drop-height test. Doesn't that totally invalidate the results. Our balls > usually BARELY drop off the end of the ramp because they are so strongly > attracted to the upper ends of the magnet array. > > With no magnets, you could just set the 12mm U-track down flat on the table > and push the ball off of it onto the N-gauge track and you'd get a lot more > than 100mm rollaway, right? > > More confused than usual - Scott Hi Scott, Sorry for the confusion. The mag arrays were left off to clarify the diagram. The idea is to lift both the front and the back of the SMOT ramp an equal amount. With the rollaway N gauge ball catcher below and a VERTICAL drop you can then determine how much drop height you need to get a rollaway. Remember to remove a bit of the floor in the U channel to allow the ball to drop cleanly (the front edge of the floor needs to be cut back about 2mm or so). Once thats known, the goal posts are in sight. Link a few SMOTs, get incremental lift from each one to the goal drop height and you will achieve a rollaway. Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 00:50:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA29630; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:48:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:48:36 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 03:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970605034718_-994295547 emout15.mail.aol.com> To: ben tammetta.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au Subject: Re : My SMOTS don't link anymore? Resent-Message-ID: <"J7zO01.0.rE7.Jzcbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7942 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 05/06/1997 07:56:46 , Ben Tammetta wrote : << Do you have pictures... I have linked 2... But when I built more and reconnected the old ones none worked... I can't figure out why they will no longer work... (linked) nothing has significantly changed... (slight adjustments maybe... ...very slight) The 2 ramps work independently of one another fairly well... but when I slide them together.. the second ramp fails completely... the ball will not move up the track........ the 1st ramp nullifies the second in some way, totally distorts the field or weakens it. I have gone back to look at my pictures.. to verify my arrangments are the same as before... and tried adjusting for hours. I''m baffled Any pointers? Greg ? Why did my first one work? http://www.clubelite.com/fe ben clubelite.com >> Hi Greg and Ben, I have exactly the SAME PROBLEM as Ben. I am able to link successfully two units but the third and the fourth unit interact with the second ramp exit. I have applied the update (phase 2) on the exit of my SMOT device, with this update the rolling of the ball is improved but the blue hole stick the ball when I put the third steel ball. I hope that you will help us to succeed in the SMOT linking and closing the loop, I send to you and Ben a photo of my SMOT v1.02 improved exit directly, ( this will avoid to overload the vortex-server )... GREG, WE WAIT FOR YOUR SMOTs PICTURES IN LINKING and IN CLOSED LOOP, this will help us to understand the correct setup.... Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 01:46:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA04411; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 01:44:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 01:44:37 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC7151.A6E75780 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" Cc: "'freenrg-l eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: SMOT Ramp SIzes Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 01:40:47 -0700 Encoding: 12 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"61SpO1.0.o41.qndbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7943 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Short ramps are cool! Finally found a use for all the 2" Neos that I bought. Had tried previously using multiples, end-to-end, to get a 4" (100cm) ramp. But that didn't work too well, exits were real tricky. Now tried just *one* magnet on each side, and got 18mm lift (so far) with exit easy as can be! Haven't tried linking or roll-away yet, that'll have to wait. It's way past bedtime and tomorrow is a visit to my personal energy source - the high Sierra. Don't everybody go linking mini-ramps in circles while I'm away! Dan From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 02:15:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA24092; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 02:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 02:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970605021253.00b28b94 mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 02:12:55 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: SMOT despair Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"4jYKZ1.0.Eu5.xBebp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7945 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have achieved 1 ramp rollaway (180mm), but did not closed the loop yet. Too much leakage from my capricious ego-improved NdFeB mag.arrays :( At 08:31 PM 6/4/97 -0500, you wrote: >We got our taller magnets today (only 9.0mm high instead of 9.7mm like >Greg's) and made new magnet arrays and succeeded in making a single ramp on >which a 12mm ball would start at 0mm, roll up to 12mm, then fall down our >S-shaped exit onto a second level channel at 0mm height. But no amount of >fiddling/adjusting would cause the ball to roll away from the end of the >ramp by itself. In fact, the ball is rather firmly attracted to the ends of >the magnets. > >Greg, aren't we supposed to be able to achieve a one-ramp level roll away? >That would be a positive indication of o-u to me...but I can't get it to happen. > >Has anyone else achieved a one-ramp level roll away? > >Scott Little >EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 >512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) >little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 02:17:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA06845; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 02:09:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 02:09:05 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC7155.1302A2F0 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu> From: Dan Quickert To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" Subject: Magnet size correction Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 02:06:06 -0700 Encoding: 6 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"4YyqL1.0.qg1.m8ebp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7944 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well, golly... those 2" Neos that I mentioned are supposed to be 1.96" long, 0.39" wide, 0.20" thick according to the specs from my American supplier. Actual measurement shows 50mm x 10mm x 5mm. Metrics are so boring... Dan From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 04:51:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA03953; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 04:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 04:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 13:48:23 +0200 (METDST) Message-Id: <199706051148.NAA12742 imaginet.fr> X-Sender: lentin mail2.imaginet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: magnet motors Resent-Message-ID: <"v0GJr3.0.hz.rUgbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7946 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Vorts, All this Smotting has obviously revived interest in permanent magnet (O-U ?) motors, especially Japanese ones. They seemed to create quite a stir 2 years ago. Infinite Energy published several papers and patents, Tom Bearden announced "a new Pearl Harbour", and then... what ? As it looks like I'll be doing another TV program about O-U in the fall - this time a 60 minute one with a big budget - , I'm planning to go to Japan to check things out. Meanwhile, I wonder if anybody has new info. Recently, Fred Epps wrote : > Has anybody duplicated or heard of duplications of the Kawai motor? > Greg has pointed out that what he is doing with the SMOT has been done > before. I take him seriously on this. The Kawai motor looks like it would > be the most worthy candidate among other devices to show the same effects > as the SMOT. Infinite Energy # 4 published the Kawai patent and schematics. I saw the 15 minutes Japanese TV document about it in the VHS video of CFNE Symposium 1996 (distributed by Gene Mallove). It's in Japanese but I.E. published a translation in issue # 1. Very impressive ! It shows Kawai motors in action, tests being done, even a TV ad for a commercially available motor (seemingly by Sumimoto, a big industrial company) ! Is there any member of this list in Japan who could check on that ? Fred Epps again : > Actually the Takahashi motor with its curving magnet is an even closer > analogue, but I haven't looked at it very closely. Does anyone have > references to tests of this device? There was demonstrations in UK for a scooter prototype using Takahashi technology, made by a company called SciEx. I've never been able to find its address thru the search engines. Any one has a clue ? Then Horace Heffner : > I don't recall the particulars, but believe the inventor of the similar idea, as > applied to a rotary motor, is the father of a famous (in Japan) Japanese singer. > It was a rotary motor with only one set of magnets around the periphery, not > two as above. I think the "ball" was a magnet (or multiple spaced magnets) > mounted on a rotor. The inventor said the key was getting the angles of all > the magnets right. That was Kohei Minato, father of star singer Hroko. Infinite Energy # 9 published a news item about it, saying that a Taiwanese company will manufacture a miniaturized version, and in # 11 there is the abstract of the US patent, dated 1988. PS 1 - My apologies to every one who helped or appeared in my previous TV program and are expecting their VHS copies. They will be shipped this week ! PS 2, to Scott Little. Jean-Louis Naudin is curious about a big rotating device which was filmed at EarthTech (by the British Channel Four crew - shown also in my movie, we bought some images from their fine "It runs on water" documentary). Seems it looks similar to a magnet device Jean-Louis has been experimenting. PS 3, to Evan Soule. Yes, I promise I will visit Joe Newman ! Best regards to all --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin lentin imaginet.fr --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 06:41:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA14185; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 06:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 06:39:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Tstolper aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 09:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970605093801_317477042 emout15.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Frank Close Less Skeptical? Resent-Message-ID: <"72S311.0.ZT3.A6ibp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7947 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris, In your post of June 4, you said that Frank Close was sounding less skeptical now, at least on TV. I hadn't heard about that. It sounds like progress. In what way has he become less skeptical? What new evidence or reconsideration on his part made an impression on him? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 07:00:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA15893; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 06:56:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 06:56:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:55:48 +1000 (EST) From: Martin Sevior To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: magnet motors In-Reply-To: <199706051148.NAA12742 imaginet.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"d96_B3.0.Au3.OMibp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7948 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 5 Jun 1997, Jean-Pierre Lentin wrote: > Hi Vorts, > > As it looks like I'll be doing another TV program about O-U in the fall - > this time a 60 minute one with a big budget - , I'm planning to go to Japan > to check things out. Meanwhile, I wonder if anybody has new info. > You will of course visit Greg Watson in Adelaide, take some film of whatever RMOD he has going as well as closed loop SMOT? He deserves a few plugs! Cheers Martin Sevior From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 07:21:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA18607; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 07:18:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 07:18:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: 05 Jun 97 10:16:09 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: vortex-l Subject: Cheap SMOT Message-ID: <970605141609_76016.2701_JHC108-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"a9mLs1.0.fY4.xgibp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7949 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gnorts, Vorts, Thanks for the sims Greg. I was wondering what they looked like. The ball's motion reflects the field plot in that it pauses slightly after the first peak then shoots on to the exit with vigor toward the second (and greater) peak. The Radio Shack magnets are roughly 1" x 3/4" x 1/8" and my ball is 1/2" in diameter. I have to elevate my ramp to get the top of the ball to the top of the mag array. This makes linking difficult since my magnets are taller than my ball. But, I only sought proof of concept and threw this together in a few minutes at a total cost of $3.59. The configuration in my previous message utilizes a minimum number of magnets. Because the magnets are higher than the ball, even with a level ramp, my ball falls higher than the entrance point. However, based on my previous arguments, because my ball strikes a rigid surface (a ceramic tile), roll-away demonstrates the anomaly. The anomaly is the result of the ball exiting the field at the "blue hole" VERTICALLY. The ball does not pass through the end of the array. The ramp must end approximately one centimeter before the end of the array. I believe that using Greg's magnets and ball size according to his specification in this layered configuration will result in a SMOT with less sensitivity to adjustment. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 07:35:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA08753; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 07:34:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 07:34:28 -0700 Date: 05 Jun 97 10:32:43 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Confused about Close Message-ID: <970605143243_72240.1256_EHB119-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"C9fXH1.0.h82.pvibp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7950 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex I thought that Frank Close was theorizing about weird electron bond links between atoms, but Chris Tinsley and others say he was talking about "collapse of the inner electron shells to a previously unknown low energy state." This sounds sort of like the Mills theory. It is over my head, in any case. Tom Stolper asks: "In what way has [Close] become less skeptical? What new evidence or reconsideration on his part made an impression on him?" Although Close has made slightly affirmative, slightly open minded statements, I discount them. I do not think he is serious, and from the mistakes he makes, I know that he has made no effort to study the evidence for CF. He is toying with some ideas about ZPE. I think he is pretending to be open minded. He is feigning interest, because scientists are supposed to be curious, open minded, and entertained by new ideas. Even when they actually detest novelty, they smile and pretend to like it. This kind of hypocrisy is common in other walks of life. Businessmen claim they like healthy competition and deregulation while they fight to prevent them. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 08:50:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA26213; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:48:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:48:12 -0700 Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706051548.IAA17030 denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Cheap SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"qIBdR.0.NP6.x-jbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7951 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:16 AM 6/5/97 EDT, Terry Blanton wrote: >Gnorts, Vorts, > >Thanks for the sims Greg. I was wondering what they looked like. The ball's >motion reflects the field plot in that it pauses slightly after the first peak >then shoots on to the exit with vigor toward the second (and greater) peak. > >The Radio Shack magnets are roughly 1" x 3/4" x 1/8" and my ball is 1/2" in >diameter. I have to elevate my ramp to get the top of the ball to the top of >the mag array. This makes linking difficult since my magnets are taller than my >ball. But, I only sought proof of concept and threw this together in a few >minutes at a total cost of $3.59. The configuration in my previous message >utilizes a minimum number of magnets. > >Because the magnets are higher than the ball, even with a level ramp, my ball >falls higher than the entrance point. However, based on my previous arguments, >because my ball strikes a rigid surface (a ceramic tile), roll-away demonstrates >the anomaly. The anomaly is the result of the ball exiting the field at the >"blue hole" VERTICALLY. The ball does not pass through the end of the array. >The ramp must end approximately one centimeter before the end of the array. > >I believe that using Greg's magnets and ball size according to his specification >in this layered configuration will result in a SMOT with less sensitivity to >adjustment. > >Terry > Hi Terry, I am trying to visualize your design. For operation, does the ball rolls across the sloped ramp (arch ruler?), falls off the ramp end (1cm from mag assay end), hits a ceramic tile, that is lower than the ramp end, and then ball bounces and rolls away at the same level as entry height? Or a horizontal ramp siting level on table with the ball at exit, hits a ceramic tile on the table below, that then bounces higher than the ramp end, that then rolls away at a lower starting elevation? How are the magnets positioned, with the 1" dim. vertical or layed horizontal to the ramp? Michael From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 10:32:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA14001; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:30:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:30:19 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 13:28:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970605132851_1010499783 emout04.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: gwatson microtronics.com.au Subject: SMOT v1.03 - Rollaway test Resent-Message-ID: <"V9aKN.0.dQ3.gUlbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7952 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, Today, I have built my SMOT v1.03 device with a smaller magnet ramp ( 160 mm) than the v1.02 ( 200 mm ) as Greg said in a previous email about the length of the magnetic ramp, I have been able to conduct successfully the rollaway test with ONE unit ( rollaway = more than 180 mm with a aluminium U channel, and more than 400 mm with a straight plastic railroad ) You will find videos and pictures ( SMOT with the steel ball running on a railroad ) at : http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/s103jln.htm Next step.......the closed loop..... Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 11:05:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA21078; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:00:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:00:08 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970605110021.00b34810 mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 11:00:23 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: SMOT v1.03 - Rollaway test Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"sVJHx1.0.G95.dwlbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7953 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I notice that on your pictures the rollaway track is not level (it slopes away from the exit). Also I notice that the track is elevated above the surface of the table. I would like to see how much above the table is the entry track and also would like to be able to see if the level of the entry track is equal/less than the lowest point of the rollaway track. I am sure others will have the same questions. P.S. I also have achieved 180mm rollaway with 1 NdFeB SMOT ramp. My entry and rollaway tracks are on the same level within 0.1mm. At 01:28 PM 6/5/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi All, > >Today, I have built my SMOT v1.03 device with a smaller magnet ramp ( 160 mm) >than the v1.02 ( 200 mm ) as Greg said in a previous email about the length >of the magnetic ramp, I have been able to conduct successfully the rollaway >test with ONE unit ( rollaway = more than 180 mm with a aluminium U channel, >and more than 400 mm with a straight plastic railroad ) > >You will find videos and pictures ( SMOT with the steel ball running on a >railroad ) at : > > http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/s103jln.htm > >Next step.......the closed loop..... > >Sincerely, > >Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) >Email : JNaudin509 aol.com >my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ >WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 11:22:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA24903; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: 05 Jun 97 14:03:45 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Cheap SMOT Message-ID: <970605180344_76016.2701_JHC23-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"OnSMg.0.z46.Z0mbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7954 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Randall asks: >>For operation, does the ball rolls across the sloped ramp (arch ruler?), falls off the ramp end (1cm from mag assay end), hits a ceramic tile, that is lower than the ramp end, and then ball bounces and rolls away at the same level as entry height?<< The ramp can be level or tilted so the ball is pulled UPHILL (the entry is lower than the exit). But, because my magnets protrude below the bottom of the ramp (they're too high), the whole rig has to be elevated a bit (otherwise the ball can't exit the field vertically and gets pulled back to one of the magnets). But, yes, I can get roll-away from a level or tilted (up to maybe 20 degrees) ramp. Roll-away is further with a level ramp. It'll roll about 30 inches from a level ramp and 18" when the ramp is inclined to the limits of the array's "pull" (on a Formica surface). The roll-away results vary with the exit angle which is sometimes influenced by the magnets depending on the adjustments of the array. >>How are the magnets positioned, with the 1" dim. vertical or layed horizontal to the ramp?<< The long dimension is parallel to the ramp. Hmmm. . .you have made me think (which is dangerous for an engineer). My entry point is higher than my impact point; so, each time I lift the ball back to the entry point, I impart some potential energy to the ball. As the ball falls off the ramp, it is still influenced by the magnets, which, like a pendulum string can translate the momentum imparted by gravity. I guess the only way to be sure we have an anomaly is to "close the loop" since quantifying these small energies in a single ramp can be near impossible. Or, I could get a larger ball or smaller magnets. Unfortunately, like Rick, my real-world responsibilities have precluded further smotting for the time being. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 12:18:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA03839; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706051856.TAA10324 tycho.global.net.uk> From: "Cyber Computer Networks Ltd." To: Subject: SMOT Kits re-send Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:54:35 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"95owA.0.vx.Rnmbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7955 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg, Sorry for the mail re-send, someone changed our password and downloaded all mail for the last 12 hours or so. Can you re-send any reply if any? > Hi Greg, > > Sorry to hear about your HD failure. Want a new 2.6 fujitsu IDE mode 4, > I'll swap it for a working closed loop SMOT kit :) > > I cannot get my ramp to drop the ball on the flat and run out. It must be > dropped below the ramp start height and I am worried that during the drop > through the blue hole it loses some energy to the pull back up effect. > So if I cannot get if to run out flat then there is little point in > building a two ramp version yet or is it? > But it does go uphill about 8 mm! or about 3 degrees from the level. > I am using two sims made of computer case blanking plates with 6 off 2cm > circular fridge magnets taped to them. These two sims are rubber banded to > a 11cm piece of 22mm copper tube, with six pieces of 4mm balsa strips to > pack the sims away from the tubing, 4 at one end and 2 at the other. 19mm > steel ball bearing. > > Will the SMOT kits run as a closed loop? > What is the longest the SMOT kit has run for? > > I would like to have a go at the RMOD device so will you be posting any > details on this device yet or near future? > > Does the RMOD use curved sims? > Does the RMOD use a series of ball bearings mounted on a rotor. > > How is the work on the RMOD 2 coming on? > If it is running how long has it run for ? > If I could get a closed loop running for more than 1 rev then I would > chuffed to bits and probaly not sleep for a week, and I look forward to > that day, it would be like all my birthdays and christmas's arriving at > once. > > > PS Has anyone had any success with the chevron arrangement? > > > Rob King > (shared internet connection) > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 14:31:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA25071; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:28:27 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: BLUE-HOLE (N.G.) Example? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"JAPKk3.0.d76.7vobp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7957 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Blue-Hole Seekers, Check out the cover PHOTO on "National Geographic APRIL 1997 (vol. 191, No. 4)) 'Hubble's Eye on the Universe'. The Hubble Telescope captures a 'dying star' engulfed in gases 8,000 light-years away. ?In 'my minds-eye' this hour-glass shape is how I perceive our smot 'Blue Hole'. This would explain a lot as to why it is 'working!' pointed North, East, South or West. The HOUR-GLASS shape (360 degree through-out the flux) would always be increasingly smaller toward our 'Bulls-eye' center of adjustment, using, loosing or gaining whatever it encountered on it's up-ramp magnetic trip. While further off the 'Bulls-eye' center mark, the ball increasingly tries to 'jump-the-track' and act 'normal?'.. One picture is worth a-thousand-ascii characters? The picture looks to me as if it's almost a sideways view (smot-wise) less gravity, our balls would be roughly on the bottom of the photo moving up and through the center towards the top of the magazine (where issue name is) and would end up about 4" below the thickness of the magazine. -se- ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 14:31:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA24951; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: 05 Jun 97 17:17:55 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: SMOT v1.03 - Rollaway test Message-ID: <970605211755_100433.1541_BHG79-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"75ujh.0.n56.Ruobp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7956 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Epitaxy, > I also have achieved 180mm rollaway with 1 NdFeB SMOT ramp. My > entry and rollaway tracks are on the same level within 0.1mm. That is prima facie OU, because: Entry Exit Gravitational PE Equal Magnetic PE Greater KE Greater I'm not saying it *is* OU, simply that it looks very much like it. Let's not forget the eddy currents (in your case the magnets conduct too) and all the frictional losses. I just cannot see what can be brought in to balance the books. I also have problems interpreting M Naudin's pictures and would be glad if he would give more details - perhaps in line with the basic list I have given above. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 14:59:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA08624; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:56:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:56:19 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199706051856.TAA10324 tycho.global.net.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:54:35 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: SMOT Kits re-send Resent-Message-ID: <"dF7D11.0.c62.2Opbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7958 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rob - I think the chevron is a dud. I wanted to look at it because of its intriguing geometry, and because it shows up in those rotary designs. People here were thinking of building rotary designs based on it. I think now that those rotary versions have no chance of working, and that seems to be the consensus. Blanton's Blue Alley or the Watson ramp seem to be the way to go. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 15:34:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA14223; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:31:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:31:59 -0700 Date: 05 Jun 97 18:30:07 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: vortex-l Subject: More on roll-away. Message-ID: <970605223006_76016.2701_JHC50-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"vYeh.0.8U3.Uvpbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7960 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gnorts, Vorts, I have noticed that the amount of roll-away is dependent on the ramp width on my toy. A wider ramp causes the ball to move up the ramp slower because the ball has to make more rotations since the ramp contacts the ball more toward the sides than the bottom. A 1/2" diameter ball only makes about 2.5 rotations to move 4 inches on a table; but, a good deal more rotations result from the side rail contact. With a wider ramp, the ball has more spin when it exits the ramp and the y axis spin of the ball seems to be what imparts the roll-away. If I simply drop the ball down the exit point with my fingers, I see no roll-away; so, it apparently is not the influence of the magnet on a falling ball which causes roll-away. Oh, and I don't see any obvious difference between the North pole on the right and the South pole on the left as opposed to the South on the right. (Sorry, Horace.) Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 15:37:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA05693; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33973BF3.41FA ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 17:21:39 -0500 From: Craig Haynie Reply-To: ccHaynie ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT v1.03 - Rollaway test References: <970605132851_1010499783 emout04.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LD7J-.0.tO1.Vvpbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7959 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509 aol.com wrote: > > Today, I have built my SMOT v1.03 device with a smaller magnet ramp ( 160 mm) > than the v1.02 ( 200 mm ) as Greg said in a previous email about the length > of the magnetic ramp, I have been able to conduct successfully the rollaway > test with ONE unit ( rollaway = more than 180 mm with a aluminium U channel, > and more than 400 mm with a straight plastic railroad ) If you've got 400mm roll-away with one ramp, you might even be able to close the loop by just letting the ball roll around the plastic track back into the first and only ramp. If that's too ambitious, it seems you could still do it with 2 ramps. Just let the ball roll out and then go around a 180 curve, through another ramp, and then through another 180 curve, back into the original ramp. You may not need 4 ramps, or ramp linking. ______ / \ | | | | | | | | FIRST RAMP -> | | | | <- SECOND RAMP | | | | | | | | \______/ Hasta, Craig Haynie (Houston) ccHaynie ix.netcom.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 16:11:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA22094; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:09:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:09:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:15:22 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l Subject: Re: More on roll-away. In-Reply-To: <970605223006_76016.2701_JHC50-1 CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"fV_-Z.0.4P5.USqbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7962 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 5 Jun 1997, Terry Blanton wrote: > > I have noticed that the amount of roll-away is dependent on the ramp width on my > toy. A wider ramp causes the ball to move up the ramp slower because the ball > has to make more rotations since the ramp contacts the ball more toward the > sides than the bottom. A 1/2" diameter ball only makes about 2.5 rotations to > move 4 inches on a table; but, a good deal more rotations result from the side > rail contact. > The 'Smallest Gauge "Train-Track" in our town' is "Z-gauge" about 1/3 again smaller than the N-gauge track... it's getting pretty small for big fingers though.. maybe Greg was right, everything would be 'back-wards' with an OU device... I already feel like I'm making a 'little atom!' LESS RAMP / LESS MAGNET / LESS FRICTION for a Go-Zoom-Zoom device. Sorry Tim Taylor Fans.. se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 16:18:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA11488; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:06:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:06:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:00:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Barry Merriman Message-Id: <199706052300.QAA02293 joshua.math.ucla.edu> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: How to do Roll-Away tests Resent-Message-ID: <"_hSVc.0.Pp2.gPqbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7961 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: JUst thought I would point out that the proper way to do a roll away test is to point the track in some direction and insert the ball at point A, and let it roll away to point B. Then, take the setup over to point B, direct it back at point A, and now get the ball to roll from entry point B back to point A. Going both directions like this eliminates the possibility of simply roling down a hill and mistaking it as roll-away: Test 1. *A ------------> B Test 2. *B ------------> A * = starting location of ball. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 16:23:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA12505; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:14:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706052314.SAA10144 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: SMOT v1.03 - Rollaway test Resent-Message-ID: <"0LJKg.0.J33.FYqbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7963 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 13:28 6/5/97 -0400, Jean-Louis wrote: >You will find videos and pictures ( SMOT with the steel ball running on a.... JL, I notice in your video that the ball appears to accelerate quickly just as it is leaving the picture to the left. This implies that the N-gauge exit track is sloping downhill. Right? Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 17:15:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA32754; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:12:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:12:18 -0700 Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:11:57 +1000 (EST) From: Martin Sevior To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cheap SMOT In-Reply-To: <970605180344_76016.2701_JHC23-1 CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Y4G2O1.0.Z_7.XNrbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7964 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 5 Jun 1997, Terry Blanton wrote: > > Hmmm. . .you have made me think (which is dangerous for an engineer). > My entry point is higher than my impact point; so, each time I lift the > ball back to the entry point, [snip] Geeze Terry! We've been trying to get this fact out of you for a week! You only have an anomaly if the impact point is level or higher than the point at which you start the ball. I think we should forget this arrangement and concentrate on short SMOT's. I've wasted a lot of time on this. Martin Sevior From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 17:45:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA07271; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:43:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:43:35 -0700 Date: 05 Jun 97 20:41:05 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Cheap SMOT Message-ID: <970606004105_76016.2701_JHC118-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"fJwp_3.0.Xn1.tqrbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7965 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Martin Sevior wrote: >>I've wasted a lot of time on this.<< Sorry. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 18:31:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA01832; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <339767E1.6A00 interlaced.net> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 21:29:05 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cheap SMOT References: <970606004105_76016.2701_JHC118-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IV9Ky2.0.YS.VVsbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7966 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry Blanton wrote: > > Sorry. > > Terry Remember, Terry, Vortexing is never having to say "I'm sorry."!! Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 18:42:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA20799; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:40:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:40:56 -0700 Message-ID: <33976AD4.1E79 interlaced.net> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 21:41:40 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT v1.03 - Rollaway test References: <199706052314.SAA10144 natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"L8kF_2.0.v45.dgsbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7967 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > JL, I notice in your video that the ball appears to accelerate quickly just > as it is leaving the picture to the left. This implies that the N-gauge > exit track is sloping downhill. Right? > Another point to a guy ignorant of N-gage specs - does the BALL center ride at the same height in the N-gage track as it does in the aluminum rail - I'm trying to say, is the height of the BALL the same during roll-a-way as it was at the insertion?? Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 19:03:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA25194; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:50:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:50:37 -0700 Message-ID: <33976CC4.3520 interlaced.net> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 21:49:56 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT v1.03 - Rollaway test References: <199706052314.SAA10144 natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Dgq63.0.g86.Ppsbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7968 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Jean-Louis, in my last post I forgot to thank you for the excellent visuals on your SMOT pages - they have been a great help in understanding what is going on!! So, THANKS!! Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 19:55:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA09753; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33976EFC.663F microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 11:29:24 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT v1.03 - Rollaway test References: <199706052314.SAA10144 natasha.eden.com> <33976AD4.1E79@interlaced.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H5FPF3.0.4O2.ORtbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7969 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Francis J. Stenger wrote: > > Scott Little wrote: > > > > > JL, I notice in your video that the ball appears to accelerate quickly just > > as it is leaving the picture to the left. This implies that the N-gauge > > exit track is sloping downhill. Right? > > > > Another point to a guy ignorant of N-gage specs - does the BALL center > ride at the same height in the N-gage track as it does in the aluminum > rail - I'm trying to say, is the height of the BALL the same during > roll-a-way as it was at the insertion?? > > Frank Stenger Hi Frank, I selected the N gauge track based on it having the same internal spacing as the 12mm Alum "U" channel. Then both have a 9mm internal spacing. Now that we seem to be getting a few same height, level rollaways, we need to move on to the NEXT goal. Rollaways 1.5 to 2mm ABOVE the entry height. Its OK to roll from 1.5 to 2mm up down to 0mm up, but NO lower! Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 21:42:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA08559; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:34:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:34:10 -0700 X-Sender: ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ed Wall Subject: Re: Chris' SMOT comments Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 04:17:44 +0000 Message-ID: <19970606041738.AAB7604 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"6dl1l3.0.f52.1Dvbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7970 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: >Epitaxy, > > > I also have achieved 180mm rollaway with 1 NdFeB SMOT ramp. My > > entry and rollaway tracks are on the same level within 0.1mm. > >That is prima facie OU, because: > >Entry Exit >Gravitational PE Equal >Magnetic PE Greater >KE Greater > >I'm not saying it *is* OU, simply that it looks very much like it. >Let's not forget the eddy currents (in your case the magnets conduct >too) and all the frictional losses. I just cannot see what can be >brought in to balance the books. > I concur, Chris. Starting from virtually or actually no momentum and achieving rollaway while overcoming losses says magnet, ball, gravity system produces more work than it can by conservative fields. If it were not being an outlaw, wouldn't the ball stop before it made it to the top? Even if the ball gets tired after a while, one rollaway cannot be explained by physics I was taught. Dr. Aspden's 'ether spin' data about achieving an etherial angular momentum in conjunction with the observable matter of a rotor were introduced to me in 'New Energy News,' 2/95. The parallel with a steel ball rolling through a magnetic field could be significant. Has anyone tried to confirm the 'Aspden Effect'? Seems to me that it would be even easier to replicate than the SMOT. I quote NEN: "Imagine further that when the motor, after running five minutes or more, is switched off and the machine is stopped, you can restart it in the same or opposite direction and find that it now has a memory in the sense that it will not now ask for that 300 joules of excess input. 30 joules will suffice provided the time lapse between starting and restarting is no more than a minute or so." He also claims correlation of the effect with time of day and compass orientation. It is hard to accept that such things wouldn't have been declared into scientific reality long ago if they exist, but we humans do see what we expect to see... The scientific community does not tolerate well individuals claiming to see outlawed behavior Ed. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 21:43:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA09758; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:40:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:40:54 -0700 Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706060439.VAA16382 denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Cheap SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"-Nelb.0.NO2.LJvbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7971 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 02:03 PM 6/5/97 EDT, Terry Blanton wrote: >Michael Randall asks: > [snip] >Hmmm. . .you have made me think (which is dangerous for an engineer). My entry >point is higher than my impact point; so, each time I lift the ball back to the >entry point, I impart some potential energy to the ball. As the ball falls off >the ramp, it is still influenced by the magnets, which, like a pendulum string >can translate the momentum imparted by gravity. I guess the only way to be sure >we have an anomaly is to "close the loop" since quantifying these small energies >in a single ramp can be near impossible. Or, I could get a larger ball or >smaller magnets. > >Unfortunately, like Rick, my real-world responsibilities have precluded further >smotting for the time being. > >Terry > Hi Terry, I tried your set-up and see what you were saying about a simple OU/anomaly test. At a given height the ball if droped would impact X energy and stop bouncing. For an ou/anomaly with a smot ramp, at the ramp entry height the same as before and the ball goes up the ramp and gets launched off the end, bounces off the table and rolls away Y distance. Thereby X + Y > X. Interesting! But like you say it doesn't "close the loop" or some might not agree with the quantifing of the energies made with one ramp. Too me it makes sense and looks like extra energy coming from the system from somewhere, plus it was easy to build. Thanks for the info. Michael From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 22:05:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA14835; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 22:01:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 22:01:40 -0700 Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:00:29 +1000 (EST) From: Martin Sevior To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Confused about Close In-Reply-To: <970605143243_72240.1256_EHB119-1 CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pBVLB2.0.Td3.ocvbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7972 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 5 Jun 1997, Jed Rothwell wrote: > To: Vortex > > I thought that Frank Close was theorizing about weird electron bond links > between atoms, but Chris Tinsley and others say he was talking about "collapse > of the inner electron shells to a previously unknown low energy state." This > sounds sort of like the Mills theory. It is over my head, in any case. Tom > Stolper asks: "In what way has [Close] become less skeptical? What new > evidence or reconsideration on his part made an impression on him?" Although > Close has made slightly affirmative, slightly open minded statements, I > discount them. I do not think he is serious, and from the mistakes he makes, > I know that he has made no effort to study the evidence for CF. He is toying > with some ideas about ZPE. I think he is pretending to be open minded. He is > feigning interest, because scientists are supposed to be curious, open minded, > and entertained by new ideas. Even when they actually detest novelty, they > smile and pretend to like it. This kind of hypocrisy is common in other walks > of life. Businessmen claim they like healthy competition and deregulation > while they fight to prevent them. > Jed, you of all people should know that no situation totally is black or white. Frank Close genuinely believed CF to be incorrect on the basis of a particular theoretical mind set - namely. "If the heat is beyond chemical limits, it must be nuclear. If it's nuclear we know what must happen. Where are all the easily detectable signatures of nuclear interactions." etc. etc. I doubt his highly negative view had anything to do with maintaining a status quo. In Frank Close's case he would in fact have had a lot to gain by the discovery of an unexpected new Physical phenomena. I think your very blinkered view of science must stem from your business background. In Science the connection between someone elses' success causing a personal failure is far less direct than in business. "Free Markets yuk! That means we have to work harder or someone will steal our customers" In Science, a fantastic new discovery opens up new areas for investigation and support. Scientists know this. Everyone I spoke to about CF back in 1989 REALLY wanted it to be true. Many were prepared to drop their current projects and dive into CF. Now Frank Close has found away to begin to reconcile contradictory facts and he's willing to look more closely at excess heat experiments again. That's not hyposcrisy, that's openning one's mind and admitting mistakes. That's sort of thing is good for everyone Jed. Martin Sevior From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 5 23:07:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA14677; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706060603.XAA24333 iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: SMOT v1.03 - Rollaway test Resent-Message-ID: <"mzago2.0.Fb3.kXwbp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7973 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis, Good work! Your video and pictures look great! From the way the ball accellerated up the ramp it looked like it could rise an additional 2mm rise at the exit with a roll to 0mm with room to spare! Looking forward to hearing more of your work! Sincerely, Michael Randall At 01:28 PM 6/5/97 -0400, Jean-Louis Naudin wrote: >Hi All, > >Today, I have built my SMOT v1.03 device with a smaller magnet ramp ( 160 mm) >than the v1.02 ( 200 mm ) as Greg said in a previous email about the length >of the magnetic ramp, I have been able to conduct successfully the rollaway >test with ONE unit ( rollaway = more than 180 mm with a aluminium U channel, >and more than 400 mm with a straight plastic railroad ) > >You will find videos and pictures ( SMOT with the steel ball running on a >railroad ) at : > > http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/s103jln.htm > >Next step.......the closed loop..... > >Sincerely, > >Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) >Email : JNaudin509 aol.com >my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ >WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 01:44:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA02486; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 01:43:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 01:43:30 -0700 Date: 06 Jun 97 04:41:01 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Chris' SMOT comments Message-ID: <970606084100_100433.1541_BHG63-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"kaHai1.0.ec.nsybp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7974 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Ed, > I concur, Chris. Starting from virtually or actually no momentum > and achieving rollaway while overcoming losses says magnet, ball, > gravity system produces more work than it can by conservative > fields. I'm less certain. I had one private email, which commented: "The pull of the magnet will store energy [...] as you bring the ball to the starting point of the SMOT. This is the energy being transfered to the ball when it rolls away from the SMOT." But I would suggest that the field at the entry to the ramp is so weak that it can hardly move the ball along the horizontal section. So I think that this explanation fails. Barry points out how vital it is to establish a true horizontal. That is true, and the best way is with a ball rolling on a polished track. It's easy to see whether it can be rolled more one way than the other. But the best test is to see if the rollaway is possible with the ramp(s) rotated into various directions around the vertical axis. None of which is entirely the point, because the goal is to achieve a small (1.5-2mm) lift-and-rollaway and then close the loop. Closing the loop would of course cancel out most of the discussion. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 01:44:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA02508; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 01:43:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 01:43:33 -0700 Date: 06 Jun 97 04:40:58 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Confused about Close Message-ID: <970606084057_100433.1541_BHG63-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"V5U373.0.6d.qsybp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7975 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Martin, > Now Frank Close has found away to begin to reconcile contradictory > facts and he's willing to look more closely at excess heat > experiments again. That's not hyposcrisy, that's openning one's > mind and admitting mistakes. What about the Test score, then? Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 01:51:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA24507; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 01:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 01:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 18:48:41 +1000 (EST) From: Martin Sevior To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Confused about Close In-Reply-To: <970606084057_100433.1541_BHG63-1 CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"iY1bm.0.r-5.Uyybp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7976 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 6 Jun 1997, Chris Tinsley wrote: > Martin, > > > Now Frank Close has found away to begin to reconcile contradictory > > facts and he's willing to look more closely at excess heat > > experiments again. That's not hyposcrisy, that's openning one's > > mind and admitting mistakes. > > What about the Test score, then? > > Chris I humbly admit that the English Nation produces the greatest cricketers on the face the Earth. No other Nation comes close, let alone we poor dregs of civilized world, cast out byr our unworthiness to inhabit God's Own Country. Cheers! :-) Martin PS. The tests not over yet and there are 4 others. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 02:10:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA05192; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 02:08:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 02:08:53 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970606020920.00b234f0 mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 02:09:21 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: How to do Roll-Away tests Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5Fo2T3.0.2H1.bEzbp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7977 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I agree At 04:00 PM 6/5/97 -0700, you wrote: >JUst thought I would point out that the proper way to do >a roll away test is to point the track in some direction >and insert the ball at point A, and let it roll away to point >B. Then, take the setup over to point B, direct it >back at point A, and now get the ball to roll from entry >point B back to point A. Going both directions like this >eliminates the possibility of simply roling down a hill and >mistaking it as roll-away: > >Test 1. > > *A ------------> B > >Test 2. > *B ------------> A > >* = starting location of ball. > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 04:27:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA03288; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 04:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 04:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3397F1D8.7D11 microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 20:47:44 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Version 2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fYyoR2.0._o.9A_bp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7978 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, Its a long weekend in OZ land. Queen's birthday on Monday. The work with the shorter ramps and Terry's stacked arrays looks good. I hope to be able to announce early next week a much improved SMOT design with rollaway via a SINGLE ramp. Will keep you informed. The improved design will ship with the SMOT kits. Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 05:45:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA11092; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 05:44:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 05:44:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Tstolper aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970606084302_-195104462 emout02.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Frank Close Sees Some Light? Resent-Message-ID: <"auZNH2.0.Ej2.aO0cp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7979 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris, Jed (or any other Vortexian), Your allusions to hints of flexibility on Frank Close's part have really piqued my curiosity. They could be significant straws in the wind, regardless of how much sincerity was behind them. Do any words of Close's in the last year or so come to mind? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 06:21:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA02966; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 06:17:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 06:17:17 -0700 Date: 06 Jun 97 09:14:30 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Cheap SMOT Message-ID: <970606131430_76016.2701_JHC88-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"8HEfR2.0.Gk.St0cp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7980 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Michael Randall said: >> Too me it makes sense and looks like extra energy coming from the system from somewhere, plus it was easy to build. Thanks for the info. << Thanks for your verification!! The problem with my setup is the difference in Gravitational PE between the impact point and the entry point. I have been arguing that this is not translating into roll-away energy; but, some people are not reading my arguments. Thanks again! Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 07:17:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA10159; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 07:12:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 07:12:15 -0700 Date: 06 Jun 97 10:09:15 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Frank Close Sees Some Light? Message-ID: <970606140915_100433.1541_BHG102-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"OL44s.0.fU2.-g1cp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7981 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Tom, > Your allusions to hints of flexibility on Frank Close's part have > really piqued my curiosity. They could be significant straws in > the wind, regardless of how much sincerity was behind them. Do > any words of Close's in the last year or so come to mind? The only clear reference I have was in a BBC/TLC co-production series, one of those dreadful progs with flickering images and that woman off the X-files hosting it very badly. Frank was in the one devoted to energy and antigrav and suchlike. Having been on record (early '94, s.p.f) as saying that "zero-point energy is zero energy", he was by '96 saying that the zpe-tapping proposals of Forward and others were good science if not practicable. He also spoke favourably on antigrav, saying we know very little about gravity and that antigrav might well become possible. There have been other straws in the wind, but those are the ones I can reference with some accuracy. So maybe even Frankie isn't immune to PMS (Pre-Millennial Syndrome). Chris (smotting away) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 09:07:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA06777; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:55:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706061555.IAA07954 denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: SMOT Version 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"apw1I.0.nf1.0D3cp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7982 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg, Yes, this is the way to go for simplicity of your SMOT design. Great idea. Looking forward to your progress. Michael At 08:47 PM 6/6/97 +0930, you wrote: >Hi All, > >Its a long weekend in OZ land. Queen's birthday on Monday. > >The work with the shorter ramps and Terry's stacked arrays looks good. >I hope to be able to announce early next week a much improved SMOT >design with rollaway via a SINGLE ramp. > >Will keep you informed. > >The improved design will ship with the SMOT kits. > > >Greg > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 11:52:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA06258; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:48:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:48:26 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:47:06 -1000 To: Vortex-L From: Rick Monteverde Subject: SMOTs: magnetism, gravity, or illusion? Resent-Message-ID: <"M6yhd1.0.eX1.vj5cp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7984 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gnorts - Greg once said that the SMOTs had to work with gravity. Greg, did you mean that you've tried various off-vertical-axis versions with either elasticity or just momentum as the energy reservoir, and have seen no gains like we see with the height gains in the regular ramps? Have any of your RMODs already settled this question by working without accumulating the excess energy as gravitational PE? I did try a horizontal elbow design last night which went for momentum as the energy accumulator. Linking these things is very easy because they're 90 deg. to each other. I saw no gain at all that looked like it would lead to rollaway or a close loop with such a design. Now this is all pretty rough work, so that may not tell us much. But I'm beginning to wonder again about the gravity comments you and others have made. I don't suppose it's possible that the ball weighs less during its time spent in the increasing B up the ramp. If there is such a thing, and it was limited to certain situations like this as in a moving, spinning, symmetrical ferromagnetic mass on the centerline of a magnetic field, might it be possible that such a slight and unlooked-for effect could have been ignored all this time? Seems very unlikely, but you never know. One more phunny note. I saw Robert Stirniman's post about magnetic charge. Anyone notice how much the ball surfing the B gradient on the ramp looks like simple induction between a chargable object and an electric field? Odd to see the effects of a strong magnetic field with its curly parts apparently shaved away, seemingly behaving like a simple electrostatic field. There's high potential and low potential. "Charge" is induced on the SMOT ball, and it moves along this potential, ignoring the traditional flux lines (as long as it stays on the centerline track). I suppose since a SMOT ramp is a gizmo that uses flux with a high potential on one end, and a low potential on the other, you *could* say it's ... a "flux capacitor". Greg, better do a patent search under the name "Emmett Brown". - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 12:12:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA11391; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:10:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:10:22 -0700 Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 12:10:01 -0700 From: Lynn Kurtz Subject: Re: SMOTs: magnetism, gravity, or illusion? Sender: kurtz IMAP2.ASU.EDU To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Simeon for Win32 Version 4.0.9 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: NORMAL X-Authentication: none Resent-Message-ID: <"czNBC3.0.un2.U26cp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7986 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:47:06 -1000 Rick Monteverde wrote: > Gnorts - > > I suppose since a SMOT > ramp is a gizmo that uses flux with a high potential on one end, and a low > potential on the other, you *could* say it's ... a "flux capacitor". Greg, > better do a patent search under the name "Emmett Brown". > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > > OhMyGod!!! And I've noticed a time warp just *reading* about SMOTs. You're on to something there Rick... Hee hee -- Lynn From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 12:19:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA02565; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:08:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:08:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970606134829.009e02cc postoffice.ptd.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 09:05:50 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: hydomagneto dynamic test apparatus Resent-Message-ID: <"D7hUQ2.0.xd.T06cp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7985 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jeff - > Hint: Repulsive arrays will cause the armature to self > center. > > Author used a coolwhip container for the stator and a > cake frosting container for the armature. Hint: Was the author too busy enjoying the former contents of the armature and stator to reveal the results of his experiment to us? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 12:57:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA10312; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:44:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:44:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970606134829.009e02cc postoffice.ptd.net> X-Sender: revtec postoffice.ptd.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 13:48:29 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: jeff fink Subject: hydomagneto dynamic test apparatus Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"XhS832.0.2X2.2o4cp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7983 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The hydromagneto dynamic test apparatus was recently designed (10:30 EST Jun 4 '95) to provide an economical way for researchers to investigate and promote anomalous phenomena in rotary permanent magnet machinery. It will specifically allow for verification and improvement of the performance of devices such as the Cunningham magnetic device Pat. 4,443,776. The apparatus incorporates readily available frictionless bearings. Instructions for Fabrication and Assembly: Obtain two nonmagnetic cylindrical containers, one large and the other 3" smaller in dia. Install a magnetic array of refrigerator magnets internally around the bottom of the large container using modeling clay or caulking cord. This is the stator. Install a complimentary array of magnets in a similar manner around the outside perimeter at the base of the smaller container. This is the armature. Fill the large container part way with water. Float the smaller container in the larger and see how many RPM you can get out of it . Hint: Repulsive arrays will cause the armature to self center. Author used a coolwhip container for the stator and a cake frosting container for the armature. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 14:52:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA28568; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 14:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 14:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: 06 Jun 97 17:40:13 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: SMOT alternative approach. Message-ID: <970606214013_100433.1541_BHG71-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"c6k1c3.0.G-6.eH8cp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7987 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Just a small point: anyone who can get same-level rollaway need only use level curved tracks to join two or more of the ramps (or multiramps) together. We don't need clever, we need a closed loop. I just felt it worthwhile to mention that this is an alternative to Greg's higher-level rollaway. Or is it? Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 15:14:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA01934; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970606181245.009e6fb0 postoffice.ptd.net> X-Sender: revtec postoffice.ptd.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 18:12:45 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: jeff fink Subject: Re: hydromagneto dynamic test apparatus In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19970606134829.009e02cc postoffice.ptd.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HnZ-n1.0.3U.Ug8cp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7988 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:05 AM 6/6/97 -1000, you wrote: >Jeff - > > > Hint: Repulsive arrays will cause the armature to self > > center. > > > > Author used a coolwhip container for the stator and a > > cake frosting container for the armature. > >Hint: Was the author too busy enjoying the former contents of the armature >and stator to reveal the results of his experiment to us? > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI I'm still waiting for my main shippment of 500 magnets. With only 15 magnets to work with there is excessive cogging and results are understandably disappointing. Filling the perimeters should have more interesting results as long as the armature doesn't sink. (Another good reason to work with repulsive forces) Jeff Fink From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 15:14:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA09016; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:12:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:12:09 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:10:52 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: SMOTs: magnetism, gravity, or illusion? Resent-Message-ID: <"gzW5s2.0.oC2.ui8cp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7989 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lynn - > OhMyGod!!! And I've noticed a time warp > just *reading* about SMOTs. Yup. And building and adjusting them is *even worse*. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 17:36:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA26544; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 17:08:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 17:08:09 -0700 Message-Id: <199706070005.BAA05640 tycho.global.net.uk> From: "Cyber Computer Networks Ltd." To: Subject: SMOT V2 Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 01:01:44 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CxwA03.0.aU6.dPAcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7990 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I have experimented using the layout Jean-Louis is using, his video shows no spirit level so I assume he uses a level bench. His setup looks so simple yet I cannot reproduce the results he gets. Magnet arrays 160 x 25 x 14mm (axis) Ferrite (48 latch magnets). Ball 19 mm steel. Start point +3 to +4mm Roll out Level 0mm Track 190x14mm H section plastic strut. I lose 3-4 mm on the run but it looks close. I cannot get a level rollout yet, if I raise the exit it jumps back onto the magnets. I only get sucessful run every 5-6 attempts, all the rest result in the ball flying around the outside of the magnet arrays, left and right. I tried putting some 4 neodynium magnets on the outside of the array and this caused hot spots on the run. The exit I presume must be a parabolic curve to translate the downward energy into forward energy, I use a 45 Deg. piece of track at present. I will try to get some Alu. U section because I am sure the plastic is not very good. Has anyone got a two ramp version working yet? My brother suggested curving the slope back down from the centre of the run instead of using a drop. Has anyone tried this yet? I have put hours and hours into getting this to work, I just hope everyone else gets a closed loop running and tells me its easy then I can copy what they have done :) I tried using a plastic coated magnetic marble and this actually wheel spins up the track and then sticks to one of the magnets. So that is no good at all. Me thinks its time to nip down to the toy shop for another 50 magnets before they all get sold, then I can build ramp number 2. Rob King From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 19:20:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA14409; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 19:19:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 19:19:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 18:16:35 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Cheap SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"d-Ozu2.0.2X3.OKCcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7992 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I wrote: >> >> Remember, Terry, Vortexing is never having to say "I'm sorry."!! >> >> Frank Stenger > >Gee, Terry, I just realized that this could be taken as a rather "snide" >remark! I meant it in the spirit of the "Horace creed", i.e., if you >try something, Vortex it - no worry if it should come apart on further >analysis - it's all good brain food!! Thus, no need to say I'm sorry. >Hope I didn't put my head too far up my aft aperture. > >Frank Stenger Gosh Frank, now *you're* doing it! We all know you're well intentioned and not a SMOT'alec. 8^) Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 19:31:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA10564; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 18:58:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 18:58:10 -0700 Message-ID: <3398C060.27F1 interlaced.net> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 21:58:56 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cheap SMOT References: <970606004105_76016.2701_JHC118-1 CompuServe.COM> <339767E1.6A00@interlaced.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"O2lqe.0.-a2.o0Ccp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7991 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wrote: > > Remember, Terry, Vortexing is never having to say "I'm sorry."!! > > Frank Stenger Gee, Terry, I just realized that this could be taken as a rather "snide" remark! I meant it in the spirit of the "Horace creed", i.e., if you try something, Vortex it - no worry if it should come apart on further analysis - it's all good brain food!! Thus, no need to say I'm sorry. Hope I didn't put my head too far up my aft aperture. Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 20:50:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA24366; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 20:45:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 20:45:55 -0700 Date: 06 Jun 97 23:40:18 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Cheap SMOT Message-ID: <970607034018_76016.2701_JHC110-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"p0C4Z.0.1y5.ibDcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7993 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frank said: >>Gee, Terry, I just realized that this could be taken as a rather "snide" remark!<< No, Frank . . . it was taken as intended. I loved Ali McGraw, too. It's just that, since I went to charm school, I often say "Sorry" when I mean "Damn, Martin, I've only been arguing this Gravity PE issue for a freaking week." Terry, engaging lurking device From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 21:40:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA28379; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:02:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970606181245.009e6fb0 postoffice.ptd.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19970606134829.009e02cc postoffice.ptd.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 18:00:25 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: hydromagneto dynamic test apparatus Resent-Message-ID: <"JWHET3.0.Hx6.OrDcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7994 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jeff - > I'm still waiting for my main shippment of 500 magnets. Well, good luck then. Let us know how ti goes - that sounds like a very low friction device at low speeds. If it's possible it can work, then maybe that will. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 21:40:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA06360; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:35:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706070435.VAA18234 norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"3olrX3.0.IZ1.bLEcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7995 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:57 PM 6/2/97 EDT, Terry Blanton wrote: >Rick asked: > >>>Can you have continuous linking without eventual array convergence or blue >hole drop-through regauging? I think that's what it comes down to.<< > >We might find the answer when we get to see the RMOD. > [snip] Hi Terry, Didn't you see Greg's posts on his preliminary idea of his rotary (RMOD Mark I?) design? It was his gifs Rotor1.gif and other Rotor gifts. If you didn't see it let me know and I'll re-send it. It had a ramp with a possiblity of a wheel in the center for torque takeoff. Michael From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 23:05:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA22534; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 23:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 23:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3398F8B0.4BEF microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 15:29:12 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: neotech xbn.shore.net, newman-l@emachine.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Greg Watson's Home Page Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zcERT2.0.0W5.BcFcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7996 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, Here is my first attempt at a home page : Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ Will load more as I further develop the page. Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 6 23:40:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA26775; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 23:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 23:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 23:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706070635.XAA11174 norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Greg Watson's Home Page Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"-kzst.0.GY6.U5Gcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7997 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:29 PM 6/7/97 +0930, you wrote: >Hi All, > >Here is my first attempt at a home page : > > Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ > >Will load more as I further develop the page. > > >Greg > Hi Greg, Nice page! Its getting there. Soon you'll be booked with traffic, for info, SMOT & RMOT sales orders! Michael From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 00:02:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA29601; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 00:00:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 00:00:45 -0700 Message-ID: <33990669.2DE1 microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 16:27:45 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Greg Watson's Home Page] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"hz6Fe2.0.NE7.SSGcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7998 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (smartlst mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by orca.microtronics.com.au (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA22779 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:11:38 +0930 (CST) Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA26791; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 23:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 23:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 23:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706070635.XAA11174 norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Greg Watson's Home Page Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"-kzst.0.UY6.V5Gcp" mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3712 X-Loop: freenrg-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request eskimo.com At 03:29 PM 6/7/97 +0930, you wrote: >Hi All, > >Here is my first attempt at a home page : > > Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ > >Will load more as I further develop the page. > > >Greg > Hi Greg, Nice page! Its getting there. Soon you'll be booked with traffic, for info, SMOT & RMOT sales orders! Michael From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 00:59:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA05165; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 00:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 00:57:15 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: New SMOTer & ramp Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 07:56:12 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3398b8ce.12105596 mail.eisa.net.au> References: <970601193035_-1866263278 emout01.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <970601193035_-1866263278 emout01.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OTfPC1.0.dG1.PHHcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7999 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:30:35 -0400 (EDT), Nackles aol.com wrote: [snip] >earlier. What about rotational energy of the ball. I have done some back of >the envelope calculations (people, please check me on these!!): > Steel ball dia 14mm, density 7.9 gm/cm2. > Mass = 16.2gm (note change from my earlier mass - cheap scale that > measures in increments of 12 gm!) 7.9 gm/cm^3 doesn't gel with a radius of 7 mm and a mass of 16.2 gm. If the density and mass are correct, then the radius should be 7.9 mm. > Moment of inertia about axis through center = 3.2 gm.cm2 > Ball rolls on lines separated by 13mm. Hence rolling radius = 0.26cm. This leads to a RR of 4.475 mm. > Observed 16cms travel up ramp in 1.5 secs, hence _average_ vel V = > 10cm/sec. > Hence _av_ angular vel = 77rad/sec 10.7 cm/sec / RR = 23.9 radians /sec. > Hence rotational K.E. ~ 9500 gm.cm2/sec2 rotational K.E. = 1146 erg. > and ang. momentum ~ 250 gm.cm2/sec. a.m. = 96.2 gm.cm^2/sec. > For comparison, the linear kinetic energy is ~ 8000 gm.cm2/sec2 1/2*M*v^2 = .5 x 16.2 gm x (10.7 cm/sec)^2 = 927 erg. [snip] Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 02:00:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA11426; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 01:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 01:58:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199706070435.VAA18234 norway.it.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 22:55:08 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"IVGu43.0.So2.3BIcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8000 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael - You quoted my: > Can you have continuous linking without eventual > array convergence or blue hole drop-through regauging? > I think that's what it comes down to. Well, Greg's RMOD as per those GIFs is basically a rotary ball feeder to the ramp(s). That's great if it works mind you, but what I was wondering about there were the more general aspects of the design of rotary devices having many active elements ("ramps") ganged up to provide something approaching useful torque. Also, as far fetched as it may seem (and AFAIK), there's still the question of gravity versus other restoring forces for the ball. But with things like the Cunningham device or the whipping-cream/cake-frosting can proposal, the SMOT experience so far seems to indicate that they will have some serious problems. However, if a simple SMOT *can* truly add extra energy to the ball, then a well engineered version of the basic concept shown in the RMOD GIF should work, because in its important aspects, it's pretty much the same thing. I know that must sound like a silly thing to argue in light of the fact that Greg's had one up and running, but for the rest of us...it's still kind of hard. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 03:58:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA21402; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 03:57:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 03:57:41 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 06:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970607065705_518869090 emout07.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Bad news about my rollaway test :-( Resent-Message-ID: <"y2OMi.0.KE5.awJcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8001 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 06/06/1997 03:23:49 , Epitaxy wrote : << I would like to see how much above the table is the entry track and also would like to be able to see if the level of the entry track is equal/less than the lowest point of the rollaway track. I am sure others will have the same questions. >> Hi Epitaxy, Scott, Craig, Greg and all SMOT'ters The rollaway testing give me headaches.....grrrrr, >:-( Today, I am not able to reproduce correctly my previous rollaway setup ( the 5 june experiment with the SMOT v1.03 ), the only working rollaway test that I am able to do is an N-gauge track exit 2 mm BELOW the level of the SMOT ramp input....... The adjustments of the two short ramps is very very accurate ( because of the strong gradient...) and give me some headaches..... The closed loop experiment is put off until another time !!!! I have updated my web with these informations.... GREG, PLEASE......, POST US SOME PICTURES OF YOUR SMOTS SETUP IN CLOSED LOOP.......If you don't have a video capture board in your PC, you can take pictures with a simple camera and ask for processing your pictures on a KODAK CD-ROM. With this mean, you will be able to send us your SMOTs running setup on wonderfull JPEG pictures...... Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 08:42:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA12773; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 08:41:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 08:41:12 -0700 Date: 07 Jun 97 11:39:17 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Bad news about my rollaway test :-( Message-ID: <970607153917_72240.1256_EHB84-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"w-uG82.0.Q73.N4Ocp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8002 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex Jean-Louis Naudin writes: The rollaway testing give me headaches.....grrrrr, >:-( Today, I am not able to reproduce correctly my previous rollaway setup ( the 5 June experiment with the SMOT v1.03 ), the only working rollaway test that I am able to do is an N-gauge track exit 2 mm BELOW the level of the SMOT ramp input....... I would like to be sure of something. Please tell us. In the roll-away test shown on your home page, was the N-gauge track exactly level with input ramp surface? I notice that the tracks slants downward right at the exit. It looks like it drops ~2 mm. At exactly what point was it level with the input ramp? Does it look like this? r r r o o iiiiii o o o o Where: iiiii = input ramp at 0 mm elevation r r r = ramp up o o o = output ramp, starting at +2 mm and dropping to 0 mm elevation. If the output track starts at 0 mm and drops to -2 mm, that is not a valid test. I was testing a level track SMOT on Friday. I sent the ball through the magnet array expecting it would oscillate back. It went through, slowed down, and then gradually sped up again, escaping the magnet array! I thought something funny was going on until I put the magnets aside and placed a ball at various points on the track. It sat still, but when I blew on it or tapped it, it gradually rolled in one direction. It had a slight tilt, less than 1 mm in 50 cm, which was enough to cause a bogus roll-away event. I put two sheets of paper under one end of the wood base, to ensure that the slight tilt bias would always go the other way. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 09:14:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA00935; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:11:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706071611.JAA23419 germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"O2dl12.0.WE.EXOcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8003 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:55 PM 6/6/97 -1000, you wrote: >Michael - > >You quoted my: > > > Can you have continuous linking without eventual > > array convergence or blue hole drop-through regauging? > > I think that's what it comes down to. [snip] However, if a simple >SMOT *can* truly add extra energy to the ball, then a well engineered >version of the basic concept shown in the RMOD GIF should work, because in >its important aspects, it's pretty much the same thing. I know that must >sound like a silly thing to argue in light of the fact that Greg's had one >up and running, but for the rest of us...it's still kind of hard. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI Rick- Results to date indicate extra energy. We have several researchers independent indications that leads me to believe this. 1. A level ball roll away. 2. A ramp ball launcher. 3. Getting close to closing the loop. As far as powering homes and cars with this technology, we are still aways away. Greg's sims on non gravity restoring device, RMOD Mark II, as reported looked feasable. Looking foreward to hearing more of this so as we can start to solve some real world problems. Michael From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 09:20:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA01992; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33999885.494F earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 10:21:10 -0700 From: Rich Murray Reply-To: rmforall earthlink.net Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, kennel@nhelab.iae.or.jp, wireless@rmii.com, dashj sbii.sb2.pdx.edu Subject: Re: SIMS results References: <1.5.4.32.19970602072346.00668cb4 sparc1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"I8l4a3.0.1V.5dOcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8004 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: 6/07/97 Dear Elliot Kennel, I am delighted with your post of 6/02/97 about precision SIMS and quadrupole mass spectroscopy on soot in very high vacuum electric discharge systems with, I believe, copper electrodes. This is just the kind of research that needs to happen: precision study of reaction sites and reactions products, before and after. Since most of us don't know enough about SIMS to evaluate the various claims in various reports this last year, maybe you could tell us more about the actual measurement process. What ions were used at what energy and current and pulse duration? How much time and money does it take to do these tests? Can you examine cathodes, before and after, from Mizuno, Ohmori, Dash, and Miley to check out their claims? Possibly, impurity hydrogen may exist in localized concentrations as highly loaded spots on metal surfaces. Is there any way to check out this possibility with SIMS? For instance, would SIMS itself create nuclear reactions on such spots? Rich Murray From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 09:27:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA02764; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:24:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:24:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 08:21:43 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"5yf3r2.0.4h.liOcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8005 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:55 PM 6/6/97, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Michael - > >You quoted my: > > > Can you have continuous linking without eventual > > array convergence or blue hole drop-through regauging? > > I think that's what it comes down to. > >Well, Greg's RMOD as per those GIFs is basically a rotary ball feeder to >the ramp(s). That's great if it works mind you, but what I was wondering >about there were the more general aspects of the design of rotary devices >having many active elements ("ramps") ganged up to provide something >approaching useful torque. Also, as far fetched as it may seem (and AFAIK), >there's still the question of gravity versus other restoring forces for the >ball. But with things like the Cunningham device or the >whipping-cream/cake-frosting can proposal, the SMOT experience so far seems >to indicate that they will have some serious problems. However, if a simple >SMOT *can* truly add extra energy to the ball, then a well engineered >version of the basic concept shown in the RMOD GIF should work, because in >its important aspects, it's pretty much the same thing. I know that must >sound like a silly thing to argue in light of the fact that Greg's had one >up and running, but for the rest of us...it's still kind of hard. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI Hey, it doesn't seem silly to me to argue the feasibility of a rotational system! Especially if light of what I wrote May 30: begin quote: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - A partial cross section: Central Vertical Axle Stator X| |X | | | || | | | N || | | -------| ---| |-----------------------------BB | | | --||--| | | | ** || Raceway | | | || | | --||--| ---| |-----------------------------BB | | | -------| | | | S || | | | || X| |X | || BB - vertical shaft bearings for cylinders ** - cylinders equivalent to balls of Hartman US Patent 4,215,330 X - central shaft bearings Earlier I wrote: "To close the loop simply take the design for the flat ramp and warp it around into a vertical cylinder, with the magnetic fields vertical. Mount the "balls" on the rim of a horizontal non-conductive cylinder, say a plastic disk mounted on an axle with good bearings, called the armature. Let the "magnetic ramp" portion of the vertical cylinder (stator) comprize about 2/3 to 3/4 of the circumference of the ball path. Use at least 5 or 6 balls. In this way several balls are in the "ramp" simultaneously, and the pull of several balls, plus the entire wheel momentum, helps each ball exit the "ramp". The "exit" of the ramp would then be bent inwards toward the axle." In thinking about this further, I can see that the "exit" magnet configuration could also be bent in a path radially outwards to achieve an identical ball/magnet relative motion to the flat ramp components, though that seems not as closely analagous to the original device as bending the magnetic field inward. The identical relative motion is achieved in the new polar coordinate system by replacing x with theta and the distance between the magnet and ball replaced by delta r. The ball travels in a fixed radius R, but the magnet postitions are adjusted to maintain a delta r eqaul to a correponding delta y difference in height of corresponding magnets an the ball. Another point is that individual ball accelerations are not accomodated in the above design. This can be done by replacing the armature disk with rods to the "balls" and then connecting the rods with springs. Thus, the rods could have relative motion like helicopter blades. This would permit acceleration in the ramp phase and deceleration in the escape phase, just like with a flat ramp design. Hopefully, going to such extremes is not necessary to achieve an analagous performance. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - end quote I lost the email (there have been so many) that indicated magnet polarity makes no difference in effect (N to the left of ball travel etc.,) but that email is to me evidence the cylinders above don't have to rotate, so the bearings can be eliminated, and the ferromagnetic cylinder above can possibly be most any shape. Also, the rotationaly storred energy, if that extra energy storage mechanism is important, can be made up simply by adding extra mass to the armature. It seems like putting multiple magnet array pairs around the loop in symmetry would accomodate ball acceleration better than springs between a flapping rod based armature with cylinders at the ends of the rods for "balls". For example suppose the armature consisted of only a single rigid non-conductive rod or beam with ferromagnetic cylinders at the ends, and suppose the stator consisted of the equivalent of two linked ramps turned vertical and bent into a circular form that maintains the same magnet array vs "ball" distance relationship throughout the loop cycle as for the horizontal version with free balls. Since each of the ferromagnetic cylinders would have the same velocity requirements at the same time, then the needed acceleration through the magnet arrays, and thus the increased momentum to escape the magnet array fields, would be available. Of course there could be any number of arms and any even number of magnetic array pairs, provided the acceleration and thus velocity requirements were all the same at the same time. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 09:49:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA06275; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 09:46:09 -0700 From: Lynn Kurtz Subject: SMOT: I'm confused: Has the loop been closed or not?? Sender: kurtz IMAP2.ASU.EDU To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Simeon for Win32 Version 4.0.9 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: NORMAL X-Authentication: none Resent-Message-ID: <"35hR23.0.zX1.D2Pcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8006 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Recent postings have given me a "now you see it, now you don't" impression. I have rollaway, no I don't, woops, my exit was lower than entrance, one ramp works, two ramps don't, closed loop works but I have to stop it every now and then to "repair" my construction etc. etc. So help me out here: Does ANYONE, Greg included, have a constructed, functioning closed loop that lasts longer than the Energizer Bunny, that doesn't have to be stopped for re-adjustments? And if so, why aren't we seeing posts that "it has been running continuously for xxx minutes/hours/days now"? -- Lynn From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 10:11:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA09280; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 10:09:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 10:09:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: SMOT: I'm confused: Has the loop been closed or not?? Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 17:08:10 +0000 Message-ID: <19970607170808.AAA18554 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"CQ9AV1.0.vG2.FNPcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8007 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 04:46 PM 6/7/97 +0000, Lynn Kurtz wrote: >Recent postings have given me a "now you see it, now you don't" impression. >I have rollaway, no I don't, woops, my exit was lower than entrance, one >ramp works, two ramps don't, closed loop works but I have to stop it every >now and then to "repair" my construction etc. etc. > >So help me out here: Does ANYONE, Greg included, have a constructed, >functioning closed loop that lasts longer than the Energizer Bunny, that >doesn't have to be stopped for re-adjustments? > >And if so, why aren't we seeing posts that "it has been running >continuously for xxx minutes/hours/days now"? > >-- Lynn > > Beginning to sound more like Bugs Bunny meets Pinky and The Brain ain't it? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 12:24:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA25320; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 12:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 12:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: 07 Jun 97 15:14:18 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: SMOT: I'm confused: Has the loop been cl Message-ID: <970607191417_100433.1541_BHG46-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"7jwCw3.0.WB6.eERcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8008 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A Lynn, > Recent postings have given me a "now you see it, now you don't" > impression. I have rollaway, no I don't, woops, my exit was lower > than entrance, one ramp works, two ramps don't, closed loop works > but I have to stop it every now and then to "repair" my > construction etc. etc. Well, Jean-Louis didn't make his initial rollaway claim quite clear, and is having trouble reproducing it. Epitaxy says he's got one ramp rollaway and hasn't retracted. Having worked on this for a while, I can give a few pointers to the kinds of trouble others will be having. Here are a few: 1. Mechanical instability of the implementation. 2. Difficulty in obtaining identical parts. a) magnet sizes b) ramp sizes c) ball sizes d) magnet material (there are many grades of hard ferrite e) ball material 3. Parameter space. There is no certainty that Greg has found the middle of that space, indeed recent postings suggest that he has found a much better area in that space. But just think of some of them. Do the magnet arrays overlap in the horizontal, or should there be a gap? If so, how big? Just where should the slope in the ramps start, relative to the start of the magnet? In a shorter ramp, should the ramp length still be 14mm shorter than the magnets? For myself, I have had a three-ramp set up with the ball traversing the entire array at the same level - and I check my levelling *very* carefully. I also find that I can't get single-ramp rollaway at the same level with the ramps I have, no matter how hard I try. Rather than risk wasting a lot of time with the new "improvements" like the Blanton magnet arrangement, I will now go for four ramps and try to raise the final exit. As it happens, I think that if a ball traverses a series of four ramps (maybe even three) at exactly the same level, then this does at least have the *smell* of o-u. As for the question of how long a loop will run before we see it as o-u, well, I suppose that depends upon how you look at it. I see it as a system in which there *is* an initial impetus (no matter how small) and where the accuracy of one's horizontal is crucial - but it remains a system where there is *no* input energy if the loop is closed (and the inital impetus is thus nullified). The only source of energy which I can see in a single circuit of the loop would be *mechanical* - where it got some kind of 'spring' effect from some accidental motion of some part. I may be wrong, but I think that all this magnetisation/demagnetisation idea is rubbish. I have never heard of *any* device which shows such an effect! People who propose a 'conventional' explanation should appreciate that the entirety of their explanation must be conventional. They can't invent a whole new effect in physics and then dismiss the claims as trivial becuase they must be using this new physics!! What we can (and must) do is to accept that there are some very conventional physics effects which can at the least *assist* a ball. As Jed points out (and I can confirm), gravity is the one which can subtly confuse. Another is the size of the initial impetus. That one is, I believe, quite tiny. And also we have a couple of centuries of people playing with magnets without any clear o-u effect being made public in any sane manner. As to Reed and his car, all the 'funny motor' patents - well, we are all pretty jaundiced about those. So we are, for very good reasons, very sceptical. On the other hand, we must not propose new and unreasonable explanations for a closed loop. I could be wrong, maybe the thing really would slow and stop after a while for reasons other than simple wear or wobbles. But if it does, that would show that the device was doing some trick like getting mechanical power from demagnetising magnets. That in itself would be an immensely exciting discovery. As to constructed, working loops, I doubt if even Greg has one. He has more important things to do, I suppose, than go back over old ground. What is compelling about all this is to watch a multi-ramp system with the balls merrily rolling along it. Greg's general attitude has been helpful too. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 13:49:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA18538; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 13:46:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 13:46:41 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970607191417_100433.1541_BHG46-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 10:45:24 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: SMOT: I'm confused: Has the loop been cl Resent-Message-ID: <"AoQu6.0.aX4.mYScp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8009 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris - > I also find that I can't get single-ramp > rollaway at the same level with the ramps > I have, no matter how hard I try. I understand you have three-ramp traversal at the same level. I assume this means the ball sticks back at the end of the third ramp. Have you tried tilting the whole assembly and trying for a level rollaway from the three ramps you have? It seemed ramps worked better a couple of weeks ago. Then even Tammetta and Naudin could not get their formerly working ramps to perform as they once did. Moon phases? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 14:14:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA14024; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 14:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 14:12:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 11:10:47 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"eLow82.0.2R3.HxScp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8010 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace - Re: rotary designs - All well and good Horace, except for the following: Does any of this really work at all, especially in a closed loop? Connecting ramps head to tail might "do something" with the total geometry of the flux of the magnets, where the apparent net gain of the individual ramps gets "grounded out" by the closed loop connection. I have no reason to believe by way of proof yet that any of these devices are really OU. Even if they are, I have no reason yet to believe the opposite of what I've always heard about permanent magnets and attempts at designs such as these: the magnetic fields always find a way to be symmetrical with their forces, and you can't 'beat' that system. If Greg's designs do somehow gain energy, I think they're probably doing it in spite of the PM field geometry, which I believe remains true in any case. I'd give the idea that Greg's device beats PM field geometry the least chance of being the reason it works, and that's why I think the rotary designs probably won't work. They operate in a continuous head-to-tail wheel, and Greg's successful designs don't. I think it's more likely the energy is from an unseen open-system source - EM or magnetism perhaps, than from tricking PM fields. The magnetic circuitry of the device could be open to the larger environment, finding both a source and a 'sink' or ground for extra magnetism. That would require that the ball surface through the blue hole as often as possible for contact with elements of the proper 'polarity'. Greg has indicated that the short ramps work better, which tends to support this notion - a smaller ramp-time to blue-hole ratio. Then there's the possibility of gravitational PE being gathered by having some sort of room temperature "Tampere" effect happening on the ramps, also not contraindicated by the behavior of the shorter ramps and more frequent blue hole contact. And of course there's always the long sought ZPE. All highly speculative, but these things go to the design and engineering of the devices. They must be built to take advantage of whatever it is that works. I tried some flat horizonal elbow ramps the other night. They used KE as a means of energy storage, rather than gravitational PE. It wasn't hard to link a couple of them, but a loop of four 90 degree elbows would not close at all, not even close. I think this provides a model of what would happen in a rotary design, and I even had a very good replication of the ball's exit path out the blue hole as in a normal ramp. All of a sudden people are having trouble making their ramps link and work. I mentioned moon phases to Chris. I wouldn't completely rule out some form of lunacy at work here, whichever way you want to read that. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 14:54:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA18994; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 14:45:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 14:45:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3399D58E.3752 microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 07:11:34 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! References: <199706071611.JAA23419 germany.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fy0PC3.0.ee4.kPTcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8011 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > > At 10:55 PM 6/6/97 -1000, you wrote: > >Michael - > > > >You quoted my: > > > > > Can you have continuous linking without eventual > > > array convergence or blue hole drop-through regauging? > > > I think that's what it comes down to. Continuous linking was NEVER a design goal of my SMOT research. I always worked to a rollaround approach. I don't know if a circle of SMOTS would work. I know the rollaround "C" curved ball return works. I will post more on this today. > [snip] > However, if a simple > >SMOT *can* truly add extra energy to the ball, then a well engineered > >version of the basic concept shown in the RMOD GIF should work, because in > >its important aspects, it's pretty much the same thing. I know that must > >sound like a silly thing to argue in light of the fact that Greg's had one > >up and running, but for the rest of us...it's still kind of hard. Most of you still seem to be hooked on the idea of a loop of SMOTS. Thats ok if you want to do your research in that direction, but its not the direction I have taken. All of my devices to date have employed variatins on the rollaround idea where the ball moves to a very low field on rollaround. In my rollaround testing, I release the ball at the start of the top curve (100mm out from the last SMOT's exit). I then readjust my tilted up linked ramps to work with that entry KE to get a redelivery of the ball back to the starting position. It seems that in doing this, I may have approached the whole project from a different perspective that the rest of you. I will post later today a enhanced series of hints to achieve rollaround. > > > >- Rick Monteverde > >Honolulu, HI > > Rick- > > Results to date indicate extra energy. We have several researchers > independent indications that leads me to believe this. > 1. A level ball roll away. > 2. A ramp ball launcher. > 3. Getting close to closing the loop. I have had 2 independent reports of multi loop operation. I will wait for the individuals to post their results themselves. > As far as powering homes and cars with this technology, we are still aways > away. Greg's sims on non gravity restoring device, RMOD Mark II, as reported > looked feasable. Looking foreward to hearing more of this so as we can start > to solve some real world problems. > > Michael Hi Michael, Remember by request for expressions of interest? It is part of the path to solving those problems and more. Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 15:00:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA21188; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 14:55:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 14:55:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3399D80C.19AA microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 07:22:12 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT: I'm confused: Has the loop been closed or not?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zSLH-3.0.rA5.eZTcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8012 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A Lynn Kurtz wrote: > > Recent postings have given me a "now you see it, now you don't" impression. > I have rollaway, no I don't, woops, my exit was lower than entrance, one > ramp works, two ramps don't, closed loop works but I have to stop it every > now and then to "repair" my construction etc. etc. > > So help me out here: Does ANYONE, Greg included, have a constructed, > functioning closed loop that lasts longer than the Energizer Bunny, that > doesn't have to be stopped for re-adjustments? > > And if so, why aren't we seeing posts that "it has been running > continuously for xxx minutes/hours/days now"? > > -- Lynn Hi Lynn, I have two research streams going at present : 1) SMOT, which I really never dreamed I would spend so much time on. The best running time I have achieved is 3 hours 27 minutes, but that was with curved ramps. The best I have achieved with 4 linked SMOT ramps is 8 minutes. The design is a "TOY", it was never originally intended to produce loops day in, day out. I was intended to prove my ideas worked and still keep my RMOD work fairly secret. All that has changed and my SMOT Mark II is designed to run day in, day out. I am spending a lot of design time to widen the operational margins as much as I can. 2) RMOD Mark I. Ran for almost 4 days. 3) RMOD Mark I.1. Running now. Hope this helps, Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 15:14:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA32263; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:12:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:12:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3399DC11.788F microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 07:39:21 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT: I'm confused: Has the loop been cl References: <970607191417_100433.1541_BHG46-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DbMJY1.0.wt7.2pTcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8013 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > Lynn, > > > Recent postings have given me a "now you see it, now you don't" > > impression. I have rollaway, no I don't, woops, my exit was lower > > than entrance, one ramp works, two ramps don't, closed loop works > > but I have to stop it every now and then to "repair" my > > construction etc. etc. > > Well, Jean-Louis didn't make his initial rollaway claim quite clear, and > is having trouble reproducing it. Epitaxy says he's got one ramp > rollaway and hasn't retracted. > > Having worked on this for a while, I can give a few pointers to the > kinds of trouble others will be having. Here are a few: > > 1. Mechanical instability of the implementation. > 2. Difficulty in obtaining identical parts. > a) magnet sizes > b) ramp sizes > c) ball sizes > d) magnet material (there are many grades of hard ferrite > e) ball material > 3. Parameter space. There is no certainty that Greg has found the > middle of that space, indeed recent postings suggest that he has found a > much better area in that space. But just think of some of them. Do the > magnet arrays overlap in the horizontal, or should there be a gap? If > so, how big? Just where should the slope in the ramps start, relative > to the start of the magnet? In a shorter ramp, should the ramp length > still be 14mm shorter than the magnets? > > For myself, I have had a three-ramp set up with the ball traversing the > entire array at the same level - and I check my levelling *very* > carefully. I also find that I can't get single-ramp rollaway at the > same level with the ramps I have, no matter how hard I try. Rather than > risk wasting a lot of time with the new "improvements" like the Blanton > magnet arrangement, I will now go for four ramps and try to raise the > final exit. > > As it happens, I think that if a ball traverses a series of four ramps > (maybe even three) at exactly the same level, then this does at least > have the *smell* of o-u. As for the question of how long a loop will > run before we see it as o-u, well, I suppose that depends upon how you > look at it. I see it as a system in which there *is* an initial impetus > (no matter how small) and where the accuracy of one's horizontal is > crucial - but it remains a system where there is *no* input energy if > the loop is closed (and the inital impetus is thus nullified). The only > source of energy which I can see in a single circuit of the loop would > be *mechanical* - where it got some kind of 'spring' effect from some > accidental motion of some part. I may be wrong, but I think that all > this magnetisation/demagnetisation idea is rubbish. I have never heard > of *any* device which shows such an effect! > > People who propose a 'conventional' explanation should appreciate that > the entirety of their explanation must be conventional. They can't > invent a whole new effect in physics and then dismiss the claims as > trivial becuase they must be using this new physics!! > > What we can (and must) do is to accept that there are some very > conventional physics effects which can at the least *assist* a ball. As > Jed points out (and I can confirm), gravity is the one which can subtly > confuse. Another is the size of the initial impetus. That one is, I > believe, quite tiny. And also we have a couple of centuries of people > playing with magnets without any clear o-u effect being made public in > any sane manner. As to Reed and his car, all the 'funny motor' patents > - well, we are all pretty jaundiced about those. So we are, for very > good reasons, very sceptical. On the other hand, we must not propose > new and unreasonable explanations for a closed loop. > > I could be wrong, maybe the thing really would slow and stop after a > while for reasons other than simple wear or wobbles. But if it does, > that would show that the device was doing some trick like getting > mechanical power from demagnetising magnets. That in itself would be an > immensely exciting discovery. > > As to constructed, working loops, I doubt if even Greg has one. He has > more important things to do, I suppose, than go back over old ground. The best I have been able to achieve, with the current SMOT Mark I design, is 8 minutes of rollaround. I achieved 3 hours 27 minutes with 4 curved ramps. Don't ask how to build them, they are REALLY hard to adjust, even for me! The RMOD Mark I ran for almost 4 days. The RMOD Mark I.1 is running now. Clink, clink, clink. > What is compelling about all this is to watch a multi-ramp system with > the balls merrily rolling along it. Greg's general attitude has been > helpful too. > > Chris Hi Chris, Firmly mount your 3 linked ramps on a 10mm craft board base. Needs to be fairly thick and heavy for stability. Get them linked. NOW, lift the exit end of the board in 0.5mm increments. You will be amamzed to find that most linked ramps, so tilted, will give you 1-2mm of extra lift without readusting the ramps. It is important for the ramps to be firmly mounted to the base board. Doing so widens out the margins quite a bit. Remember to use a vertical drop on the last ramps exit. Grind OFF the bottom of the "S" curve. Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 15:28:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA02564; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:23:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:23:45 -0700 Date: 07 Jun 97 18:20:56 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: SMOT: I'm confused: Has the loop bee Message-ID: <970607222055_100433.1541_BHG81-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"eW4Ya2.0.zd.mzTcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8016 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > I understand you have three-ramp traversal at the same level. I > assume this means the ball sticks back at the end of the third > ramp. Have you tried tilting the whole assembly and trying for a > level rollaway from the three ramps you have? Not really. It's pretty clear that it would not tolerate much of a lift (if any) without more work on adjusting. Remember that Epitaxy said it took eight hours to adjust four ramps - and I believe him! And I've not been able to find that funny magnet paper over here yet. > It seemed ramps worked better a couple of weeks ago. Then even > Tammetta and Naudin could not get their formerly working ramps to > perform as they once did. > > Moon phases? No. Mine are the same as they were last week. The problem is that an amazingly minor adjustment can alter the whole thing out of recognition. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 15:30:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA02526; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:23:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:23:41 -0700 Date: 07 Jun 97 18:21:00 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Message-ID: <970607222059_100433.1541_BHG81-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"OETvO1.0.Od.izTcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8015 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Rick, > I think it's more likely the energy is from an unseen open-system > source - EM or magnetism perhaps, than from tricking PM fields. > The magnetic circuitry of the device could be open to the larger > environment, finding both a source and a 'sink' or ground for > extra magnetism. [et cetera et cetera] I think that's all a bit silly. Why speculate on a source of energy? If the thing works, and it feels as if mine is on the edge of that (OK, OK, I do know) then we have a very simple system: a ball is pulled into higher gravitational potential, with enough KE to make it pass from a high magnetic field to a lower one which will not support the weight. The field can be plotted (with a probe if we don't like sims) and we know the force of gravity on the ball. The energy imparted by falling under gravity is translated into KE and a higher gravitational PE. So, before calling in C of E and therefore some energy transfer *into* the system, we must show that the system can't work without new energy coming in. We can move the ball slowly through the magnetic field and measure the magnetic forces on it at all points, then calculate its velocity and acceleration at every point. If such a study shows that the system will not work, then we need to find the source of energy. But, if it shows that the system *does* work - do you have a problem with that? I'd find it wildly funny, but it wouldn't bother me much. Don't burn your bridges before you come to them, Rick. > All of a sudden people are having trouble making their ramps link > and work. No, they are not having trouble. One person has reported trouble getting back to where he was, and I'm not surprised. Either he earlier mistook a below-level rollaway for a same-level one, or he has lost the adjustment - and neither would surprise me. And now people are coming scuttling out of the woodwork with triumphant little smiles, implying they'd said, "I told you so," when some of them hadn't. I rebuilt more rigidly, and am back where I was a couple of days ago - but with a better chance of making progress. > I mentioned moon phases to Chris. I wouldn't completely rule out > some form of lunacy at work here, whichever way you want to read > that. I think you are just blowing a smokescreen. For all the very good reasons I've listed, I am highly sceptical of the SMOT *and* by the "explanations" posted here for it. Equally, I'm very impressed by the multi-ramp and to a degree (despite the fact that some terrible people like Meyer can sound quite sane) by Greg's attitude. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 15:32:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA26243; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3399DE2E.1EC6 microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 07:48:22 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT: I'm confused: Has the loop been cl References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YQwhW2.0.rP6.GyTcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8014 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Chris - > > > I also find that I can't get single-ramp > > rollaway at the same level with the ramps > > I have, no matter how hard I try. > > I understand you have three-ramp traversal at the same level. I assume this > means the ball sticks back at the end of the third ramp. Have you tried > tilting the whole assembly and trying for a level rollaway from the three > ramps you have? > > It seemed ramps worked better a couple of weeks ago. Then even Tammetta and > Naudin could not get their formerly working ramps to perform as they once > did. > > Moon phases? > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI Hi Rick, I think we ALL jumped on the SMOT ramp construction very quickly. Used tape, hot glue, Blu-Tack or whatever to clobber up a rig and got it to work. Well done. Then we played some more and got links to work. Excellent. Then played some more and things started to fall apart. We now know how sensitive the ramps are to adjustment variations. Some of the adjustments are NOT so clear as an adjustment. My SMOT Mark II design, I hope will help to overcome all that, and produce a stable ramp design so we can go further in our testing and verification of my claims. I really do understand ALL the work ALL of you have put in to duplicate my claims and I appreciate it. But now we MUST move onto developing a solid, stable test rig that will produce the same results every time. I am almost there. The SMOT Mark II is looking very good. I have still not been able to get a 1 ramp rollaway, but I am close. Linking two ramps now works very well. Will post the design in the next few days. Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 15:39:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA28829; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:36:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: SMOT: I'm confused: Has the loop been cl Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 22:35:14 +0000 Message-ID: <19970607223512.AAA13478 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"ML_GG.0.M27.q9Ucp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8017 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 08:45 PM 6/7/97 +0000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Chris - > > > I also find that I can't get single-ramp > > rollaway at the same level with the ramps > > I have, no matter how hard I try. > >I understand you have three-ramp traversal at the same level. I assume this >means the ball sticks back at the end of the third ramp. Have you tried >tilting the whole assembly and trying for a level rollaway from the three >ramps you have? > >It seemed ramps worked better a couple of weeks ago. Then even Tammetta and >Naudin could not get their formerly working ramps to perform as they once >did. > >Moon phases? > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > Moon phases are just a smidgin of the "artifacts" that are most likely why the thing acts OU. Plug in Atmospheric Electricity, the "Fair Weather Field" (that has a diurnal variation from 140 volts/meter down to 100 volts/meter at sea level)and goes all over the map when there are thunderstorms in the area. Add the 1% geomagnetic declination magnetic storms caused by solar influence on the Ionosphere-Fair Weather Field effects. Throw in small amounts of static electricity induced in handling the ball and ramps, and add local ion-charge/concentration. Then put the setup in a magnetically-electrically shielded (Faraday Box)and watch it do nothing? That 300 KV electric field between the earth and the ionosphere that is is set up by atmospheric solar-thunderstorm energy, IS NOT OU ENERGY. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 16:28:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA00596; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:20:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:20:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: 07 Jun 97 18:47:20 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Re: SMOT: I'm confused: Has the loop bee Message-ID: <970607224719_100433.1541_BHG70-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"TGMaZ1.0.D9.2pUcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8018 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg, > Firmly mount your 3 linked ramps on a 10mm craft board base. > Needs to be fairly thick and heavy for stability. > > Get them linked. Done that. I use 12.5mm plasterboard (paper-faced plaster). But why are you now saying three ramps? Wouldn't the original four be better? > NOW, lift the exit end of the board in 0.5mm increments. You will > be amamzed to find that most linked ramps, so tilted, will give > you 1-2mm of extra lift without readusting the ramps. OK, I'll try that. > It is important for the ramps to be firmly mounted to the base > board. Doing so widens out the margins quite a bit. Yes, I've found that's correct. > Remember to use a vertical drop on the last ramps exit. Grind OFF > the bottom of the "S" curve. Done that too. Thanks for all the suggestions, Greg. I'll try this board-tilting. Regards, Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 16:30:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA09797; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:29:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:29:12 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:03:07 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"0qrqc1.0._O2.7xUcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8019 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:10 AM 6/7/97, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Horace - > >Re: rotary designs - > >All well and good Horace, except for the following: > >Does any of this really work at all, especially in a closed loop? >Connecting ramps head to tail might "do something" with the total geometry >of the flux of the magnets, where the apparent net gain of the individual >ramps gets "grounded out" by the closed loop connection. If you can connect on the flat you can connect on the round. In the limit, as the diameter -> infinity, the round is the flat. This applies to both the flat circular track approach and to the flipped up sideways "cylindrical" approach I proposed earlier. As Chris said, you could connect 360 ramps into a circle, and they would only have a skew of one degree. I really can't belive closing the loop could possibly kill the effect - provided the effect can not be killed by a sufficiently long linear system. That is because, if the loop is, say, 100 m in diameter, there is no way ramps on one side of the loop could significantly affect those on the other side. > >I have no reason to believe by way of proof yet that any of these devices >are really OU. Even if they are, I have no reason yet to believe the >opposite of what I've always heard about permanent magnets and attempts at >designs such as these: the magnetic fields always find a way to be >symmetrical with their forces, and you can't 'beat' that system. The only evidence we have is numerous people have spent thousands of dollars each on the patent process, and we have Greg's word he closed the loop. Actually, I put a whole lot more stock in the latter than the former. > >If Greg's designs do somehow gain energy, I think they're probably doing it >in spite of the PM field geometry, which I believe remains true in any >case. I'd give the idea that Greg's device beats PM field geometry the >least chance of being the reason it works, and that's why I think the >rotary designs probably won't work. They operate in a continuous >head-to-tail wheel, and Greg's successful designs don't. Uh, Greg did say he closed the loop didn't he? I wouldn't count any single shot device as ou without the blessings of thousands of experts. There are too many ways to deceive yourself. True, I would use straight track and/or pendulum experiments and data in a personal search for a rotary design, but would never propose a single shot device as ou without huge supporting data. > >I think it's more likely the energy is from an unseen open-system source - >EM or magnetism perhaps, than from tricking PM fields. The magnetic >circuitry of the device could be open to the larger environment, finding >both a source and a 'sink' or ground for extra magnetism. That would >require that the ball surface through the blue hole as often as possible >for contact with elements of the proper 'polarity'. Greg has indicated that >the short ramps work better, which tends to support this notion - a smaller >ramp-time to blue-hole ratio. Then there's the possibility of gravitational >PE being gathered by having some sort of room temperature "Tampere" effect >happening on the ramps, also not contraindicated by the behavior of the >shorter ramps and more frequent blue hole contact. And of course there's >always the long sought ZPE. All highly speculative, but these things go to >the design and engineering of the devices. They must be built to take >advantage of whatever it is that works. A widely distributed set of researchers with working closed loop devices is very important to development of a meaningful theory. Personally, I do believe in calorimetry, and think such will answer many questions, as will data aquisition on field transients, etc. I think a higly refined supercomputer finite element model will also mandatory. All this undoubtedly awaits confirmation from a good number of reserchers that the loop is closed. We have to be sure this is a reproduceable scientific phenomenon, and not some kind of researcher dependent non-reproducible PSI phenomenon. > >I tried some flat horizonal elbow ramps the other night. They used KE as a >means of energy storage, rather than gravitational PE. It wasn't hard to >link a couple of them, but a loop of four 90 degree elbows would not close >at all, not even close. I think this provides a model of what would happen >in a rotary design, and I even had a very good replication of the ball's >exit path out the blue hole as in a normal ramp. > >All of a sudden people are having trouble making their ramps link and work. >I mentioned moon phases to Chris. I wouldn't completely rule out some form >of lunacy at work here, whichever way you want to read that. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI There are other possible explanations. It was still April 1, 1997 here in Alaska when Greg first posted his ou claim. 8^) Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 16:32:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA02882; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3399C21F.146A24DC verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 00:18:39 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Smot mechanical losses X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jgACl3.0.yi.xyUcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8020 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, These are major mechanical losses I encountered with the SMOT: 1) Al tracks are wearing very rapidly and become noisy. After rolling 10 times I need to repolish the tracks (I am using 25 mm ball). Main cause of the rapid wearing is the dust and the metal particles. Anything more than "Ssssh" sound means serious drag. 2) Unbalanced tracks. If the edges of the U are not at level causes losses. 3) People using big size balls should round the exit corner proportional to their ball sizes. When the corner is sharp, ball angular velocity greatly exceed the linear velocity on turning the edge and slide. In proper rounding ball angular momentum smoothly transferred by friction to linear kinetic energy and speed up down the ball. 4) When magnets have not equal strength cause unbalanced forces on ball and increase the friction. To Greg: I visited your nice homepage. I seen the RMOD for the first time. What a smart design! This one will show itself on every toy and hobby store when released soon. Please dont tell us that is a simple one ramp smot. (I think one ramp have no OU effect) Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 17:53:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA21254; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 17:51:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 17:51:07 -0700 Message-ID: <339A0143.4FF9 microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 10:18:03 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: SMOT: I'm confused: Has the loop been closed or not??] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"_iL2r.0.oB5.v7Wcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8021 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Received: from ihug.co.nz (ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.4]) by orca.microtronics.com.au (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA26976 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 08:46:38 +0930 (CST) Received: from port344-Auck.ihug.co.nz (port344-Auck.ihug.co.nz [202.49.255.90]) by ihug.co.nz (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA26654; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:18:44 +1200 (NZST) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970608035833.0bf78590 ihug.co.nz> X-Sender: ksmith ihug.co.nz X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 11:10:49 -1100 To: gwatson microtronics.com.au, epitaxy@localaccess.com, dequickert ucdavis.edu, catware@worldonline.nl, billb@eskimo.com, harti harti.com, puthoff@aol.com, little@eden.com, bshannon@tiac.net, jnaudin509 aol.com, mrandall@earthlink.net, gwatson microtronics.com.au, ksmith@ihug.co.nz, ddeleo@ix.netcom.com, Bill Wright , Robin van Spaandonk , Bob Schweitzer , Quinney From: Ken Smith Subject: Re: SMOT: I'm confused: Has the loop been closed or not?? >> So help me out here: Does ANYONE, Greg included, have a constructed, >> functioning closed loop that lasts longer than the Energizer Bunny, that >> doesn't have to be stopped for re-adjustments? >> >> And if so, why aren't we seeing posts that "it has been running >> continuously for xxx minutes/hours/days now"? >> Hi All, Just a few more thoughts on the SMOT ramps and links. To put my own 2c worth into the picture. I have several working ramps, all will link and I can just get a level runoff, but not enough potential or kinetic to perform a loop back - but it is close. I have tried and tried to improve the performance. I have used N gauge rail, plastic rail, aluminium U channel. Every time I think I have an improvement in one area, then something else changes and (of course) performance suffers. I have tried various magnet configurations - I have made a magnetic indicator screen with two layers of glass filled with iron filings to try and see the interactions between the ramps. Ramps that won't run as a single - link beautifully and ramps that run and exit perfectly on their own - will not do micky when linked. Short magnet arrays work better than long ones, but then the lift is applied over a shorter span so the net result is similar. S curved exits give good exits, but are touchy. Straight lips are solid, but lose energy on the drop. All in all it is very, very touchy technology. I have no doubts that there is something here - but at the moment I (for myself at least) feel that I am shooting blind. I know what the target is, but I can't see the end of the barrel clearly enough to point it properly. I have recently torn down all my ramps and started over in trying to stabilise a design that gives (to my mind) the best lift / exit parameters. But there are some strange paradoxes. Weak magnets give a poor lift angle, but good, easy to adjust exits. Strong magnetic arrays give super lift angles , but are almost impossible to exit without loosing all that was gained. My guess is that we will find that in the SMOT configuration there is a finite gain to be had. Two converging magnet arrays SN NS will only give you so much - and it is so little, that the whole thing has to be made like a watch in the end to get that energy out reliably. You may hit the sweet spot now and then by accident, but then with something just changing a fraction, the whole thing goes off the boil. Hence the varied and confusing feedback. Funnily enough this whole affair reminds me of my early days playing with Tesla Coils. I knew they worked - I had seen them, but could I make it happen. I tried and tried and everything looked sweet enough, but the thing would not ring. Then I learnt the RULES and understood the relationships that had to be intact to make the resonance happen. Now I can put a Tesla together and make it fire straight out of the box, if you like, and I know just where it will tune and what changing a small part or spacing will do - and how to get back in tune. Indeed one of the most convincing demonstrations with a Tesla is to start it just off tune. It just sits there and buzzes quietly to itself and in no way appears threatening or active. I then just move the primary tap connection one turn and switch on again, and all hell lets loose. I think our little SMOTTies are a bit like this just now. Sooner or later we will (between us) find out some fundimental RULES for all this and know what HAS to be so and what can be played with and how the relationships between ramp angle, convergence, lip shape, magnet strength / length and all those other factors that we can't even begin to understand yet - relate. When this happens it will all settle down. Then we will see some consistancy in results. I would like to bet serious money that no two SMOTties are alike out there. Even mine, that are superficially identical and jigged, are different and have, almost, their own personalities (perhaps I should name them and get it over with - let's face it they seem to have taken over my spare time..). So while GRUMPY runs well on his own and HAPPY and SMILEY like linking together. NODDY gets the best rollaways, but BIGEARS is the best lifter. I don't know at this point why. Two steps forward - one step back. One thing that is most valuable though is the interaction of this internet networking. However I would prefer to see some negatives along with the successes. For I genuinely believe that the mistakes and failures can be better pointers in the way forward than the good bits. Sooner or later one of us will come up with some solid improvement or RULE and then we will all move forward a notch - at least I hope so. Ken Ken Smith (ksmith ihug.co.nz) http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~ksmith From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 17:55:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA21913; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 17:53:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 17:53:58 -0700 Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 17:53:51 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT ramps act as one giant ramp? In-Reply-To: <970607191417_100433.1541_BHG46-1 CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"BhaMe1.0.CM5.aAWcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8022 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 7 Jun 1997, Chris Tinsley wrote: > As it happens, I think that if a ball traverses a series of four ramps > (maybe even three) at exactly the same level, then this does at least > have the *smell* of o-u. Hi Chris! I agree. Recent discussion about flat "herringbone" magnet arrays suggests that the SMOT ramp array has an overall magnetic gradient similar to the herringbone, and as the ball rolls along the ramps, it falls deeper and deeper into an energy well. If true, then releasing the ball at the first ramp would give it enough stored energy to make it over the peak of all succeeding ramps. If friction was zero, the ball would be guaranteed to pass all the level ramps. In an open loop rollaway-measurement system having *extremely* low friction, releasing the ball at the first ramp might create a "pseudo-rollaway" where after the finally dropoff, the ball rolls for a distance that is a good fraction of the length of the entire array. (I'm visualizing the array of ramps as being like one large ramp, and with one large ramp the ball might perform a partial rollaway of one ramp-length.) So, in order to be strong evidence of o/u, a rollaway length must be much longer than the entire set of ramps. Releasing the ball at the start of the *final* ramp would eliminate the net magnetic potential effects, since that position would be deep into the energy well. But such a position would also eliminate any possible o/u "kicks" created by each ramp. > I may be wrong, but I think that all > this magnetisation/demagnetisation idea is rubbish. I have never heard > of *any* device which shows such an effect! I finally agree too, with small reservations. Visualize a flywheel with a spring attached to its edge and to the earth. The flywheel could be turned a half-turn and released, and the spring could drive it forward for part of one rotation. But the spring could NOT act as an initiator of multiple rotations unless its attachment was released before the flywheel made a complete turn. Where in a closed-loop SMOT system might we find a nonlinearity which is equivalent to a streched spring which pulls the ball forward when the ball is at one particular spot, but which does NOT pull when the ball again passes that same spot in the loop? .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 18:10:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA14892; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <339A0486.47AD microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 10:31:58 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! References: <199706071611.JAA23419 germany.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Q8x5X.0.Qe3.YLWcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8023 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Greg - > > > Continuous linking was NEVER a design goal of my SMOT > > research. I always worked to a rollaround approach. > > I seem to recall something about curved ramps. Was there to be a rollaway > section there too? Sounds like that kind of design would lead to a > continuous linked loop. My first loop was using curved ramps and curved connecting links. There were 6 ramps and the diameter was around 1 mtr. The max loop time I got out of this setup was 3 hours and 27 minutes. Building and adjusting curved ramps is NOT easy. The curved mag arrays reduce adjustment variations (when you really need more) in a BIG way. > > It seems that in doing this, I may have approached the whole > > project from a different perspective that the rest of you. > > Yes! And it's this fact, this very difference that I keep harping on, > because that's the clue to where the energy comes in to the thing, and the > clue as to how to engineer them. It tends to show that circular or such > continuously linked devices will fail. It says that the more blue hole we > see, the better. It *suggests* that gravity may be the only restoring force > that works, but released facts so far don't isolate that out as well as I'd > like. My own horizontal 'ramps' seems to suggest it though. Can you say > more on that yet? I think I recall you saying that the RMOD II doesn't use > gravity as the restoring force. Have you tested an element of this design > and seen this work, seen clear sign of OU or energy gain on a > non-gravitational PE design? The RMOD Mark II is not based on ramps. There is another way to build a magnetic gate which shows strong preference to the directional passage of ferromagnetic material. > - Rick Monteverde Hi Rick, The RMOD Mark II is still theory. I am building a proof of theory device at present. As a hint, it is almost all ferrite based. Ferrite rotor, ferrite stators. NO direct exposure to HARD aligned domains. As a sort of reverse hint, try removing the rear steel strip in the SMOT ramps and watch what happens. Its all in SOFT domain alignments. Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 18:09:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA24288; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:08:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:08:35 -0700 From: ehammond pacbell.net Message-ID: <339A066B.267F pacbell.net> Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 18:10:03 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-PBME (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5RO_a.0.Nx5.JOWcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8024 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: If magnet is regarded as pump for ether and the ether varies with phases of moon, then a variation in behavior with time of month could be noted. If true for women why not SMOT's From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 20:55:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA19528; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:50:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:50:53 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970607223512.AAA13478 LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 13:55:32 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: SMOT: I'm confused: Has the loop been cl Resent-Message-ID: <"c5AQm1.0.1n4.SmYcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8025 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Frederick - > That 300 KV electric field between the earth and the > ionosphere that is is set up by atmospheric > solar-thunderstorm energy, IS NOT OU ENERGY. :-) Yeah, but it would be "FREE"! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 20:55:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA19597; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:51:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:51:01 -0700 X-Sender: ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ed Wall Subject: Please answer the question, Barry Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 01:27:40 +0000 Message-ID: <19970608012738.AAA25919 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"ntNXx3.0.wn4.ZmYcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8026 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >> Which is the lower energy state of an object: magnetized or unmagnetized? Merriman's response: > >This is a trick question. Perhaps, but the answer given is a lot trickier. >At the macroscopic level, the greater the >magnetization, the greater the field strength and thus the greater >the energy. Thus energy is a increasing function of the bulk >magnetization. However, at the microscopic level, what if a given >atom or tiny magnetic domain is not aligned with the local field, >it is energetically favorable for it to align itself, somewhat >contrary to the macro behavior. Pleae help me understand. Entropy is a measure of a system's capacity to undergo spontaneous change. Doesn't that mean that under the influence of an external field, as the magnetic domains align, that the entropy is increasing, but not the energy? The energy is the total ability to do work (useful or not) by all of the magnetic domains. As the alignment increases, the usefulness of the combined magnetic domain's fields increases, but the ability to do work, which is energy, by convention, is null for a conservative field. Kinetic energy gained as the ball accelerates into the positive magnetic gradient is lost as it gains it's potential energy back in retreating from the field (less losses). The idea of energy being transferred into the ball from the field is not conventional in any physics I studied. However, I have not studied QM much beyond effects concerning communications or solid state devices. You seem to imply that order increases energy. Isn't there the same potential magnetic field energy in the randomized domains? > >Thus, the lowest energy state {lowest entropy, but why energy state?} > is to organize the material into >microscopically aligned domains, which themselves are randomly >oriented. The energy is then an increasing function of how well >aligned these microdomains are. At the other end of the spectrum, >perfect alignment of all atoms is not the highest energy state >of the system---if it was in that state, you could up >the energy even more by misaligning one single atom. > The energy state of a system is defined, so either the magnetized state is more energetic or it isn't. My guess is that you mean to say that the energy for the overall system does not change and that the energy of the ball is reduced macroscopically, increased microscopically, evidenced by its alignment, though why perturbing that alignment would increase its energy is beyond my recall of thermodynamics. Ed Wall From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 21:02:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA20450; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:52:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:52:17 -0700 Date: 07 Jun 97 23:17:04 EDT From: Michael Forsyth <72020.45 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Snowflake Memory Message-ID: <970608031703_72020.45_FHH77-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"1LY441.0.-z4.YnYcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8027 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Frederick, "Is it possible that our brain cells are using this interaction with the water in our brains, and if we get dehydrated we become stupid? : -) " I heard from a reliable source (I'll see if I can find the name) that an anacephalic, a person born with only a brain stem, can function quite normally and at least one has a BSc. The cranium is filed with fluid but no cells. Also be aware that a lot of people are dehydrated and many diseases are cured by rehydration (There are currently two books available on this subject) -- Mike -- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 21:04:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA21398; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:53:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:53:47 -0700 Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 21:42:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706080242.VAA23174 dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! To: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"sqAvQ3.0.iC5.xoYcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8028 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You wrote: > >If magnet is regarded as pump for ether and the ether varies with >phases of moon, then a variation in behavior with time of month could >be noted. If true for women why not SMOT's > > 6/7/97 It's not true for women, so why would it be true for SMOTs? RWW From vortex-digest-request ESKIMO.COM Sat Jun 7 22:55:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA24896 for billb@eskimo.com; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 21:10:06 -0700 Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 21:10:06 -0700 X-Envelope-From: vortex-digest-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 21:09:06 1997 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:52:17 -0700 Old-Date: 07 Jun 97 23:17:04 EDT From: Michael Forsyth <72020.45 CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Snowflake Memory Message-ID: <970608031703_72020.45_FHH77-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"1LY441.0.-z4.YnYcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l ESKIMO.COM Reply-To: vortex-l ESKIMO.COM X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8027 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Loop: vortex-digest eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-digest-request ESKIMO.COM X-Diagnostic: /usr/lib/sendmail vortex-digest-dist eskimo.com failed X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem X-Envelope-To: vortex-digest Status: O X-Status: Frederick, "Is it possible that our brain cells are using this interaction with the water in our brains, and if we get dehydrated we become stupid? : -) " I heard from a reliable source (I'll see if I can find the name) that an anacephalic, a person born with only a brain stem, can function quite normally and at least one has a BSc. The cranium is filed with fluid but no cells. Also be aware that a lot of people are dehydrated and many diseases are cured by rehydration (There are currently two books available on this subject) -- Mike -- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 00:51:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA21082; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 00:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 00:47:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970608031703_72020.45_FHH77-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 21:45:13 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Snowflake Memory Resent-Message-ID: <"evGmY2.0.K95.2Eccp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8029 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mike - > I heard from a reliable source (I'll see if I can find the name) > that an anacephalic, a person born with only a brain stem, can > function quite normally and at least one has a BSc. I'd *love* to see some documentation to that! I've always thought it was one of the great urban legends. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 00:52:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA21434; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 00:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 00:50:13 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 03:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970608034839_-1998502348 emout17.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Linked SMOTs Qfield Resent-Message-ID: <"sbCQP3.0.pE5.mGccp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8030 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi SMOT'ters You will find in my web server at : http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/lnkrsim.htm some QField about linked ramps, lnksmd.gif : flux density pictures of two linked ramp lnksmfdx.gif : flux density curve along the neutral zone lnksmpot.gif : potential along the neutral zone lnksmed.gif : energy density along the neutral zone Magnet used : ferrite barium, anisotropic, coer. : 160 kA/m, perm : 1.1 Steel backing. Comments : lnksmd.gif : see the BIG blue hole BETWEEN the two ramps, it is bigger than the exit of the second ramp, lnksmfdx.gif : the curve of the flux density show that the middle blue hole is the reason of the major problems in linking ramps, because of magnetic flux interactions. lnksmed.gif : the interesting thing to notice is that the final energy density at the end of the second ramp is BIGGER than at the end of the first ramp, even if this energy density is equal to zero between the two ramp. This remind to me some experiments about "stepped charged capacitors", the entropy of a system tend to zero if the number of steps tend to infiny ( cf : F. Heinrich "Entropy change when charging a capacitor" ( thanks David D.)) "He showed that when a capacitor in a RC circuit is charged to a final charge in steps, then smaller the voltage steps are, the low energy is dissipated in the resistor. In the limit of infinitesimally small voltages steps, there is no dissipation ( no entropy change )." I hope that these informations will interest you, Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 01:06:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA23999; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 01:04:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 01:04:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 02:10:03 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT V2 In-Reply-To: <199706070005.BAA05640 tycho.global.net.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"a70pq2.0.rs5.dUccp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8031 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 7 Jun 1997, Cyber Computer Networks Ltd. wrote: > Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 01:01:44 +0100 > From: "Cyber Computer Networks Ltd." > Hi All, > I have experimented using the layout Jean-Louis is using, his video shows > no spirit level so I assume he uses a level bench. > His setup looks so simple yet I cannot reproduce the results he gets. >------snip > I only get sucessful run every 5-6 attempts, all the rest result in the > ball flying around the outside of the magnet arrays, left and right. > I tried putting some 4 neodynium magnets on the outside of the array and > this caused hot spots on the run. > The exit I presume must be a parabolic curve to translate the downward > energy into forward energy, I use a 45 Deg. piece of track at present. ------------------ ROB, To Find the "BLUE-HOLE" (exit) put your ramp's 'drop-off' behind the total length of the magnetic strips on either side... When you first see a run away effect, you CAN actually get a accelerated or (Zooming) effect. It may may or may not be 'parabolic' in shape, but when the ball enters, it 'maintains' all previous gained momentums, volocity's, mass and even GAINS with the 'drop-through' ADDITIONal xxxx.. suggest you slide your side magnets foward until you, until you get a run-away, then PULL back a fraction to increase the speed of the output for maximum roll-away! > I will try to get some Alu. U section because I am sure the plastic is not > very good. > > Has anyone got a two ramp version working yet? > Yes I have 2 ramps working (actually gone to rotory mostly now(trying)): the theory?- (greg's blue-hole discovery) -should let ANY MAGNETS/ ANY SIZE/ any type RAMP -plastic or Metal (Au)- WORKS!! > Me thinks its time to nip down to the toy shop for another 50 magnets > before they all get sold, then I can build ramp number 2. > Rob King I think we should all invest in Magnetic Industries (early -eh?) before it's too late.. se From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 01:28:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA15749; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 01:26:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 01:26:18 -0700 Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 23:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706080622.XAA17039 guilder.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szdanq blue.ucdavis.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Dan Quickert Subject: progress (or not) report Resent-Message-ID: <"d0b5O3.0.2r3.boccp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8032 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi gang, Someone requested reports of negative results... I think I can make a contribution or two :-(. It's a mix, actually. 1) My earlier elation at a use for my 2" NdFeB magnets has been squelched. Got really good lift, but exit at entry height was looking impossible. Field contours on the strong magnets don't work out. Related topic - ceramic magnet grades. I believe the Radio Shack ceramics that I first used were Grade 1. The new ceramics that I just received are Grade 5. Though they are a much better size (shorter height) they are much more difficult to get positive results. A big stack of very weak magnets seems to be better at the effect than a single strong magnet. Now, it would be interesting to figure whether that's merely because of field contours or some other property. *Less* mag field thru the ferrite and ball works *better*. This leads me in the direction of Greg's latest hint of the nature of his Mark II rotary research. 2) Short-but-steep ramps are interesting but present problems of their own. Now the angle of the drop is drastically changed. Too steep a ramp, and the gravity vector on exit is all wrong. So this moves us in the direction of using something other than gravity, which moves us out of the realm of simple ramps. 3) The good news: I have had a level rollaway. I have linked 3 ramps. Mine *like* to be linked . The bad news: not stable. Linked ramps not exiting level with input. Reasons: all different, cobbled-together and many-times-changed to incorporate different ideas. Things get ragged pretty quickly, and as mentioned by others adjustments are critical. Balsa wood is fun stuff but can't handle all the bouncing around that happens with large magnet arrays and metal objects. If your balls get too close to a NdFeB magnet array, things hop and you've gotta find new holes for the straight pins. 4) One possible reason some of us report good results and then get real quiet: for me, at least, it's because I had to use the parts from the success to try the next great idea presented on the list here. Then that didn't pan out, but I moved on to other ideas. There *was* a level-to-input rollaway ramp, but its parts got used. I measured and drew it out well enough so I believe I can return to it, I hope. 5) I'm a ramp-release klutz. Have not been able to get a ramp of any reasonable lift to release with the magnet center even with the center of the ball, as specified by Greg. I have to have the ball's center *above* the magnet's center. Anyone else seen that? 6) Question: I've seen mention of *plastic* N-guage track? Any specific suggestions where that might be found? I found the metal kind but it's real hard to deal with making vertical bends. 7) Question: Greg mentioned that the stacked-magnet configuration of Terry Blanton's had an X-Y curve more favorable than that of Greg's magnet array. Can someone explain to me why? (part of my interest in this is because that configuration is so very close to that posted by me on 4/10/97 in my report of my first ramp, and duplicated by others at that time. Maybe I need to go back to where I began? Am I closing a loop?). Conclusion: Still plugging away, learning. Next step is standardizing on my best ramp and making several solid copies. Closed loop would be fun but when I get there I want it to be robust and not dependent on humidity. Heading quickly toward personal overunity, sitting in the house all day staring at magnets and eating fresh basil pesto. Garden tip of the week: a 3' x 6' bed of basil is more than one (formerly) skinny person needs. Dan P.S: Some will be happy to hear I am no longer using Microsoft Exchange to post to the list, so there will be no more unwanted MIME-encoded garbage appended to my messages. All of the senseless b.s. in my messages is now from my own hand. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 02:48:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA04086; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 02:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 02:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970608024359.00b48d04 mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 02:44:00 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Water for brain works well Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"EYwme.0.m_.uxdcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8033 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Yes, I have read about the "water head" as well. Why is this such a small deal ? A person without a brain shouldn't be able to live, see, talk, pass a simple arithmetic test or get a BSc degree. How can such an occurrence be ignored, no matter how rare it is ? This should flip our science inside out ? ...anyone...Barry ? At 11:17 PM 6/7/97 EDT, you wrote: >Frederick, >"Is it possible that our brain cells are using this interaction with the water >in our brains, and if we get dehydrated we become stupid? : -) >" > >I heard from a reliable source (I'll see if I can find the name) that an >anacephalic, a person born with only a brain stem, can function quite >normally and at least one has a BSc. The cranium is filed with fluid but no >cells. > >Also be aware that a lot of people are dehydrated and many diseases are cured by > >rehydration (There are currently two books available on this subject) > > >-- Mike -- > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 03:24:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA08411; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 03:23:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 03:23:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:17:53 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970608182229.212f82ae po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8 po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mpower Subject: Re: Water for brain works well Resent-Message-ID: <"VYdgI2.0.J32.1Wecp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8034 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy posted the following (edited for brevity) at 02:44 1997.06.08 -0700: > >Yes, I have read about the "water head" as well. Why is this such a small >deal ? > >A person without a brain shouldn't be able to live, see, talk, pass a >simple arithmetic test or get a BSc degree. > >How can such an occurrence be ignored, no matter how rare it is ? This >should flip our science inside out ? > You're describing upper management, and they are *very* sensitive about this problem. - you should tread carefully in this area... {despite the fact people without brains get elected to public office, promoted to high responsibility, receive higher education diplomas (pass/fail criteria), and in general succeed depite their handicap}. ********************************************************** * http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 ******** ********************************************************** From vortex-digest-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 03:37:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA23445 for billb@eskimo.com; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:59:51 -0700 Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:59:51 -0700 X-Envelope-From: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 7 20:51:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA19597; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:51:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:51:01 -0700 X-Sender: ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ed Wall Subject: Please answer the question, Barry Old-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 01:27:40 +0000 Message-ID: <19970608012738.AAA25919 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"ntNXx3.0.wn4.ZmYcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8026 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: vortex-digest Status: RO X-Status: >> Which is the lower energy state of an object: magnetized or unmagnetized? Merriman's response: > >This is a trick question. Perhaps, but the answer given is a lot trickier. >At the macroscopic level, the greater the >magnetization, the greater the field strength and thus the greater >the energy. Thus energy is a increasing function of the bulk >magnetization. However, at the microscopic level, what if a given >atom or tiny magnetic domain is not aligned with the local field, >it is energetically favorable for it to align itself, somewhat >contrary to the macro behavior. Pleae help me understand. Entropy is a measure of a system's capacity to undergo spontaneous change. Doesn't that mean that under the influence of an external field, as the magnetic domains align, that the entropy is increasing, but not the energy? The energy is the total ability to do work (useful or not) by all of the magnetic domains. As the alignment increases, the usefulness of the combined magnetic domain's fields increases, but the ability to do work, which is energy, by convention, is null for a conservative field. Kinetic energy gained as the ball accelerates into the positive magnetic gradient is lost as it gains it's potential energy back in retreating from the field (less losses). The idea of energy being transferred into the ball from the field is not conventional in any physics I studied. However, I have not studied QM much beyond effects concerning communications or solid state devices. You seem to imply that order increases energy. Isn't there the same potential magnetic field energy in the randomized domains? > >Thus, the lowest energy state {lowest entropy, but why energy state?} > is to organize the material into >microscopically aligned domains, which themselves are randomly >oriented. The energy is then an increasing function of how well >aligned these microdomains are. At the other end of the spectrum, >perfect alignment of all atoms is not the highest energy state >of the system---if it was in that state, you could up >the energy even more by misaligning one single atom. > The energy state of a system is defined, so either the magnetized state is more energetic or it isn't. My guess is that you mean to say that the energy for the overall system does not change and that the energy of the ball is reduced macroscopically, increased microscopically, evidenced by its alignment, though why perturbing that alignment would increase its energy is beyond my recall of thermodynamics. Ed Wall From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 04:10:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA30458; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 04:09:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 04:09:43 -0700 Date: 08 Jun 97 07:06:44 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Snowflake Memory Message-ID: <970608110643_100433.1541_BHG74-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"2aF_f.0.qR7.sBfcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8035 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Rick, >> I heard from a reliable source (I'll see if I can find the name) >> that an anacephalic, a person born with only a brain >> stem, can function quite normally and at least one has a BSc. > I'd *love* to see some documentation to that! I've always thought > it was one of the great urban legends. It was the subject of a TV programme here a couple of years ago. The actual story was that the said graduate had hydrocephalus to the point where there was only a thin layer of brain tissue inside his skull, the rest of it being full of water. So there *was* a brain, the point being that its volume was very small. Anyway, it was only a mathematics degree. So that doesn't prove much. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 04:50:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA22061; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 04:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 04:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <339A9B43.6D40 microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 21:15:07 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: progress (or not) report References: <199706080622.XAA17039 guilder.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NGLxe2.0.XO5.fmfcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8036 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dan Quickert wrote: > > Hi gang, > > Someone requested reports of negative results... I think I can make a > contribution or two :-(. It's a mix, actually. > > 1) My earlier elation at a use for my 2" NdFeB magnets has been squelched. > Got really good lift, but exit at entry height was looking impossible. Field > contours on the strong magnets don't work out. > > Related topic - ceramic magnet grades. I believe the Radio Shack ceramics > that I first used were Grade 1. The new ceramics that I just received are > Grade 5. Though they are a much better size (shorter height) they are much > more difficult to get positive results. A big stack of very weak magnets > seems to be better at the effect than a single strong magnet. Now, it would > be interesting to figure whether that's merely because of field contours or > some other property. *Less* mag field thru the ferrite and ball works > *better*. This leads me in the direction of Greg's latest hint of the nature > of his Mark II rotary research. One way of controlling the exit mag field contours under the exit is by varying either the magnet spacing or the width of the arrays. Wider arrays allow easier exits. Wider arrays allow the use of weaker magnets. I posted a series of Gifs showing the effect on the "Blue Hole" as the magnet spacing was varied. > 2) Short-but-steep ramps are interesting but present problems of their own. > Now the angle of the drop is drastically changed. Too steep a ramp, and the > gravity vector on exit is all wrong. So this moves us in the direction of > using something other than gravity, which moves us out of the realm of > simple ramps. My findings at present on short ramps is to maintain approx the same exit angle as on the original SMOT design. Could even go steeper, maybe even vertical with a "S" curve. > 3) The good news: I have had a level rollaway. I have linked 3 ramps. Mine > *like* to be linked . The bad news: not stable. Linked ramps not exiting > level with input. Reasons: all different, cobbled-together and > many-times-changed to incorporate different ideas. Things get ragged pretty > quickly, and as mentioned by others adjustments are critical. Balsa wood is > fun stuff but can't handle all the bouncing around that happens with large > magnet arrays and metal objects. If your balls get too close to a NdFeB > magnet array, things hop and you've gotta find new holes for the straight pins. Congrats on the level rollaway. Next step is to mount all the ramps on a solid base board and slowly tilt the whole assy up 0.5mm at a time to get a rollaway 1.5 to 2mm above entry height. > 4) One possible reason some of us report good results and then get real > quiet: for me, at least, it's because I had to use the parts from the > success to try the next great idea presented on the list here. Then that > didn't pan out, but I moved on to other ideas. There *was* a level-to-input > rollaway ramp, but its parts got used. I measured and drew it out well > enough so I believe I can return to it, I hope. I agree. It is hard to return, to go backward. > 5) I'm a ramp-release klutz. Have not been able to get a ramp of any > reasonable lift to release with the magnet center even with the center of > the ball, as specified by Greg. I have to have the ball's center *above* the > magnet's center. Anyone else seen that? Yes, I have seen that. Suggest the top radius is not right for your exit field. > 6) Question: I've seen mention of *plastic* N-guage track? Any specific > suggestions where that might be found? I found the metal kind but it's real > hard to deal with making vertical bends. A quick hacksaw cut 1mm into the back side makes bending easy. > 7) Question: Greg mentioned that the stacked-magnet configuration of Terry > Blanton's had an X-Y curve more favorable than that of Greg's magnet array. > Can someone explain to me why? (part of my interest in this is because that > configuration is so very close to that posted by me on 4/10/97 in my report > of my first ramp, and duplicated by others at that time. Maybe I need to go > back to where I began? Am I closing a loop?). The mag differetial is much more linear from entry to exit. With Terry's config, the ball is pulled up the ramp from any point along the ramp. > Conclusion: Still plugging away, learning. Next step is standardizing on my > best ramp and making several solid copies. Closed loop would be fun but when > I get there I want it to be robust and not dependent on humidity. Heading > quickly toward personal overunity, sitting in the house all day staring at > magnets and eating fresh basil pesto. Garden tip of the week: a 3' x 6' bed > of basil is more than one (formerly) skinny person needs. I have put on 2 kilos since I first released details of the SMOT device. > Dan > > P.S: Some will be happy to hear I am no longer using Microsoft Exchange to > post to the list, so there will be no more unwanted MIME-encoded garbage > appended to my messages. All of the senseless b.s. in my messages is now > from my own hand. Hi Dan, Sound like you are making good progress. Greg From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 05:25:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA26237; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 05:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 05:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <339AA344.540E microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 21:49:16 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Smot mechanical losses References: <3399C21F.146A24DC verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fQpwW1.0.jP6.ZGgcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8037 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hamdi Ucar wrote: > > Hi, > > These are major mechanical losses I encountered with the SMOT: > > 1) Al tracks are wearing very rapidly and become noisy. After rolling 10 > times I need to repolish the tracks (I am using 25 mm ball). Main cause > of the rapid wearing is the dust and the metal particles. Anything more > than "Ssssh" sound means serious drag. I agree. > 2) Unbalanced tracks. If the edges of the U are not at level causes > losses. Correct. > 3) People using big size balls should round the exit corner proportional > to their ball sizes. When the corner is sharp, ball angular velocity > greatly exceed the linear velocity on turning the edge and slide. In > proper rounding ball angular momentum smoothly transferred by > friction to linear kinetic energy and speed up down the ball. Very correct. > 4) When magnets have not equal strength cause unbalanced forces on ball > and increase the friction. Again very correct. > To Greg: > I visited your nice homepage. I seen the RMOD for the first time. What > a smart design! This one will show itself on every toy and hobby store > when released soon. Please dont tell us that is a simple one ramp smot. > (I think one ramp have no OU effect) It is a single ramp, but there are a few more tricks not shown that are needed to make it work. > Regards, > > Hamdi Ucar Hi Hamdi, Good to see you are working through some of the SMOT pit holes. Every one you fill in will result in better performance and more stable operation. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 05:28:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA26723; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 05:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 05:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <339AA3AF.3394 microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 21:51:03 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greg's SMOT magnets References: <3037589470.20594435 compcafe.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cOLvb.0.GX6.jIgcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8038 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Geoff Greaves wrote: > > I'm wondering if Greg can say what grade of ferrite his magnets are? It occurs > to me that if they're grade 1 then they'll have less than a third the BH of > grade 2 or 3 ferrite and replicating his compound magnets by size would be > erroneous. > I assume this 1-2-3 grading is universal? There's also a DIN rating like > '8/22' for grade 1 and '28/18' for grade 2 which is 'BH/IHC' measured in > kj/m3 and kA/m. > Does a stronger magnet further away equal the same force? I suspect it's not > quite that simple with a SMOT! > ---------------------------------------- > >From Geoff Greaves: geoff compcafe.co.uk > ---------------------------------------- Hi Geoff, I have asked the question of JayCar (my supplier). They are making enquiries. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 06:01:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA00982; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 05:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 05:59:33 -0700 (PDT) From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 08:56:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970608085658_-127809434 emout08.mail.aol.com> To: CldFusion aol.com, GeorgeHM@aol.com, 76570.2270@compuserve.com, 72240.1256 compuserve.com, Puthoff@aol.com, 75013.613@compuserve.com, fstenger interlaced.net, 101544.702@compuserve.com, RVargo1062@aol.com, peter itim.org.soroscj.ro, CentManGrp@aol.com, mcfee@xdiv.lanl.gov, noever webtv.net, JEFFJ@ep.state.az.us, reed@zenergy.com, marc.g.millis lerc.nasa.gov, herman@college.antioch.edu, Lentin imaginet.fr, barry@math.ucla.edu, kennel@nhelab.iae.or.jp, ceti.msn.com aol.com, bssimon@helix.ucsd.edu, jseese@gpu.com, vortex-l eskimo.com, little@eden.com, claytor_t_n@lanl.gov, jayneg grove.iup.edu Subject: trip ANS Orlando & Marshall Resent-Message-ID: <"uOR-O1.0.GF.pogcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8039 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: TRIP REPORT..ANS ORLANDO...THE MARSHALL SPACEFLIGHT CENTER On the week of June 1st I drove from Pennsylvania to Orlando in order to attend the ANS Nuclear conference. The drive was a hard 1,200 mile three day trip. Midway I stopped at South of The Border and took a ride in the "Sombrero" sky ride. At the ANS Meeting I immediately met George Miley. George was helpful as always. George invited me to the dinner that CETI was holding at Tuscany's in the Marriot World Trade Center. At the dinner I met the team that Jim Reding put together. I was quite impressed. Dougles Collins is now their Director of Marketing. Douglas is a high power individual who has, in the past, facilitated many major business deals in the airline industry. I also had the pleasure of spending a lot of time with Christian M. Ismert CETI's business manager. All of this was for a purpose. I have now established a good personal relationship with the CETI group. I believe that we will both benefit from this relationship as my venture with Yuri unfolds. CETI's technology will appear on Good Morning America ABC on Wednesday June 11 from 7 to 9 AM. Also at the dinner were Prof. George Miley (UIUC), Prof John Dash (Portland State University Australia), Prof John O'm Bochris (Texas A & M), Prof Heinrich Hora (Univ. of South Wales), and Lali Chatternee (Cumberland University). The next day at 1:00 PM a conference was held at the Grand Saloon 4 in the Marriot World Trade Center. Gene Mallove and I had the pleasure of our first meeting. I complemented Gene on his work on the movie, "The Saint". Gene autographed some postcards that I sent out. Tom Claytor was also there. This is Tom and my second meeting. Tom helped with the Yusmar tests at LanL last August. Several theories were presented at the conference. John O'm Bochris opened up and presented a historical account of the technology. John Dash followed. John has found some gold as a transmutation product in one of his cells. Lali Chatterneg followed. Lali presented her idea that the process was a form of electron capture beta decay. I asked, "Where are the signatures" She replied, "The energy is transferred to the lattice." Of course, I don't believe that the energy is transferred to the lattice or that the process is one involving the weak nuclear force. The interactions of energy and matter are well known (scattering, pair production etc) Once a high energy event takes place the interaction within the lattace must proceeed by these known mechanisms. Heinrich Hora then presented his concept that a strong nuclear interaction is produced by the screening interaction of electron clusters. I believe John is correct in the the process involves the strong nuclear force, however, his idea also cannot account for the lack of signature. The screening interaction cannot possibility provide the 10 KEV of energy required to implement the process in deuterium and is even less likely with the heavier elements. Next the phonon resonance theory of Dr. Kucherov was presented. Kucherov says that energy is transferred in the process by phonon resonances. Bingo! Kucherov has it correct. The phonon resonances have a longer range than the coulombic force. This is what I have been saying for 10 years. No high energy event ever takes place to begin with. Thomas Caltor told of his trintium producing gas phase experiments. No neutrons were detected when the experiment was conducted with sensitive equipment in a deep mine. The mine shields from the cosmic background. Jim Patterson was last. He told of his new beads that reduce radioactivity. There is no nickel or palladium in these beads. They are a carbon core ion exchange bead. When loaded with throium or radium and energized 90% of the radioactivity is deactivated. Dr. Pattterson is quite an electrochemist. I worked with ion exchange in the power industry and Dr. Patterson really knows his stuff. Again, watch the show on the 11th. The next day I shot over to Tampa to visit an old friend. I proceeded next to Birmingham Al. I lived there a 15 years ago and I wanted to see what had changed. In the evening I went to Roper's night club in Hover. Two young ladies came over and asked me if I would like to learn how to "barn dance". We did. The people in Birmingham are just a friendly as ever. I had fun. The next morning I headed for the Marshall Space Flight Center. There I was greeted by Lott Brantley Chief of the Advanced Concepts Office. Witt took me to the lab and showed me his gravitational experiments. They have been having some problems with the ceramic superconducting disks. They tend to shatter when rotated. Due to the difficulty the experiments are taking much longer to complete than expected. The shattering problem is still not solved. I got some nice pictures which I will post later. Witt called David Noever the physist on this project. David told me of his "downshifting of the frequencies" idea. I told David of my "range of force interaction" idea. For a while all seemed lost until we realized that were describing of the same concepts but using different languages. Longer range means lower frequency! Bingo! David began to understand how his work in gravity applies to the cold fusion process. David said, "It softens up the nucleus" Bingo again! David, Kucherov, and I have similar ideas. I asked Witt for a summer job. We went down to personnel and they are working on it. This meeting also had a purpose. Witt was asked to evaluate my work on the behalf of Congressman Murtha's office. We spoke of the how he and NASA should respond to Murtha's request for information. My group is going to follow up with a letter to Witt on what we would like to see in NASA's response to the Chairman of the Way and Means Comittee. Coming from Witt it should have quite an impact. I have asked Miley to also help with this response. If all goes well something should begin to happen. I am building the relationships necessary to make the "Yusmar America" corporation a reality. On the way home I visited the News River Bridge exhibit in W VA. If you ever travel up route 19 in W Va its worth a visit. Frank Znidarsic  From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 06:02:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA01194; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 06:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 06:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:00:31 +0200 (METDST) Message-Id: <199706081300.PAA29978 imaginet.fr> X-Sender: lentin mail2.imaginet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Water mailing list ? Resent-Message-ID: <"fLjyU1.0.aI.Pqgcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8040 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Vorts A few days ago, I replied off-list to a few list members, after the Frederick J. Sparber posting on "Snowflake memory". Since then, we have quite a nice exchange of mails going on, kind of a mini "water mailing list", with Frederick, Robert G. Flower and Robert Beasley from New Zealand. All this seems a bit off-topic for Vortex-L, but as the thread has reappeared, with the new twist about the "brainless BSc", here are some excerpts pertaining to "computing water". from JPL : Snowflakes, being very impredictible and unstable, will never qualify for a future microprocessor. But they do point to the intricacy and complexity of "molecular clusters" in water. Those clusters have been postulated by all the researchers - mainstream or unconventional - who studied water's anomalies. They might be held together by hydrogen bonds (the "standard model", sort of) or by dipole attractions (the Preparata-DelGiudice model). They are probably involved with the "water memory" phenomena, vortex structuring and EM-water interactions. And, yes, in the speculations of some researchers, they might do computing... from RGF : Prof. Stu Hameroff developed a theory that cellular water in association with microtubules (long cylindrical structures in cytoplasm) forms a quantum-coherent state that can store and process information, and isolate it from thermal noise (decoherence) in the environment. In other words, an "entropy pump." Roger Penrose and Hameroff together are developing a theory that this microtubule process operating within brain cells is the physical substratum for consciousness (ie, memory, sensory awareness, etc.). http://www.u.arizona.edu/~hameroff from JPL The Hameroff & Penrose model is apparently gaining ground. I'm currently reading Michael Denton's new book "The long chain of coincidence" (just published in France and UK, not sure about the US). Denton is non-conventional and controversial in his "anti-Darwinian" ideas, but he's very mainstream as a microbiologist. Yet he's writing favorably about the microtubules model. And he adds an idea which I found thought-provoking. He is amazed by the behaviour of unicellular microorganisms, protozoans like amoeba or paramecium. They interact with their environment in a complex way, and yet they don't have the slightest nervous system. But they do have a lot of microtubules and water ! Could they do some sort of computing this way ? from RGF : Institute for Advanced Water Science Research (IAWSR) http://vitalenergy.com/water The 2nd IAWSR conference (last fall) has ca. 20 papers on "water memory." There are reports that water can be imprinted with information using various electromagnetic fields, and is effective in homeopathic-like medical treatments. from JPL Looks like time would be ripe for a water mailing list ? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin lentin imaginet.fr --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 06:19:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA07535 for billb@eskimo.com; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 06:19:23 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 06:19:23 -0700 X-Envelope-From: jonesb9 idt.net Sun Jun 8 06:19:21 1997 Received: from u3.farm.idt.net (root u3.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.12]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA07506 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 06:19:20 -0700 Received: from 206.48.11.213 ([206.48.11.203]) by u3.farm.idt.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA29921; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 09:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <339ACD3E.5799 mail.idt.net> Old-Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 22:07:06 -0700 From: Jones Beene Reply-To: jonesb9 idt.net Organization: IdeaWorks X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Water for brain works well References: <3.0.32.19970608024359.00b48d04 mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: vortex-l Status: O X-Status: Re: earlier thread; > >I heard from a reliable source (I'll see if I can find the name) that an > >anacephalic, a person born with only a brain stem, can function quite > >normally and at least one has a BSc. The cranium is filed with fluid but no > A person without a brain shouldn't be able to live, see, talk, pass a > simple arithmetic test or get a BSc degree. > How can such an occurrence be ignored, no matter how rare it is ? This > should flip our science inside out ? Check out the earlier books of Rupert Sheldrake. He mentions several of these cases, including the individual that obtained a degree, and he provides the citations. They support his theory of "memes" and morphogenic fields, which are like a "free-floating intelligence." Sorry I don't have the specifics handy or I would provide more details. I have seen criticism of his books by some physicists but no one has disputed those particular cases. -Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 06:29:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA04862; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 06:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 06:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 05:25:27 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: progress (or not) report Resent-Message-ID: <"ByOPm2.0.tB1.PDhcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8041 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:22 PM 6/7/97, Dan Quickert wrote: [snip] > >7) Question: Greg mentioned that the stacked-magnet configuration of Terry >Blanton's had an X-Y curve more favorable than that of Greg's magnet array. >Can someone explain to me why? (part of my interest in this is because that >configuration is so very close to that posted by me on 4/10/97 in my report >of my first ramp, and duplicated by others at that time. Maybe I need to go >back to where I began? Am I closing a loop?). > [snip] > >Dan > They say saying the same thing lots of ways sometimes aids communication, so please bear with me in this possibly boring and repetitious attempt to communicate. To answer your question, two reasons: 1. The stacked configuration approximates the exit end of Hartman's device as shown in the body of his patent, 4,215,330. It is just a shortened version of his design. According to Hartman even better results can be obtained by flaring the final extra (stacked) magnets both on an angle that bulges the field *out* around the drop hole (maget end closest to track pushed forward of outside end) and *up* (away from dropping ball). 2. The stacked configuration is also an approximation of what I wrote: "The identical relative motion is achieved in the new polar coordinate system by replacing x with theta and the distance between the magnet and ball replaced by delta r. The ball travels in a fixed radius R, but the magnet postitions are adjusted to maintain a delta r eqaul to a correponding delta y difference in height of corresponding magnets an the ball." In other words, since the ball motion is only *relateive* to the field motion, it should be possible to change the ball path if the magnets are moved in a manner that corresponds to the ball path change. For example, here is a side view of Hartman's ramp (does not show slight upward tilt): o m m m m m m M M M ---------------- \ ------ m - small magnet pairs astride and perpendicular to track M - bigger stacked magnet combinations with flare o - ball FIG. 1 - Hartman's primary design By the method suggested above I am saying this can be transformed into the equivalent: M M o m m m m m m M ----------------------- FIG. 2 - Level track version per translational method and achieve a similar function. The ball path is bent upward to make it flat, but the magnets are moved upward a corresponding amount also to maintain relative position. (Note that if the drop in FIG. 1 were straight down, then the magnets MMM would be in a vertical stack.) The FIG. 2 device, if performing in an equivalent way, should be capable of ejecting the ball on a level surface if a sufficient mass density of the ball can be achieved. The mass of the ball must be increased to offset the stored potential energy from the rise of the ball in the FIG. 1 configuration. If the ball is made not to roll, but somehow to move frictionlessly, the mass of the ball has to be further increased to offset for energy previously stored in rotational kinetic energy form to maintain equivalency. It is now easy to see that in the FIG. 2 configuration that it should not be difficult to link such ramps: M M M M o m m m m m m M o m m m m m m M ------------------------------------------------------------- FIG. 2 - Level track version per translational method Also it is then a small step to warp the linked ramps into a circle so the ball might travel on a bearinged armature and achieve the "frictionless" motion without rolling referred to above. If the "ball" is then made into a cylinder we have the suggested rotary design: Central Vertical Axle Stator X| |X | | | | | | | | N | | | | ------- | ---| |------------------------------- | | | --||-- | | | | ** | | | | | | | | | --||-- | ---| |------------------------------- | | | ------- | | | | S | | | | | | | X| |X | | | ** - cylinders equivalent to balls of Hartman US Patent 4,215,330 X - central shaft bearings It is then only a matter of making the design symmetrical so the acceleration and velocity requirements are alike and consistent for each segment, because the armature can only have a single velocity. Otherwise, the flapping armature rods with connecting springs method would have to be used, and that sounds like an ugly design at best. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 07:02:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA11522; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 07:01:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 07:01:42 -0700 Message-ID: <339AAD86.5A33 microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 22:33:02 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Run time References: <970606135011_521634785 emout15.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"t7tgQ1.0.qp2.3jhcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8043 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: HLafonte aol.com wrote: > > Greg, what is the longest time you have ran the SMOT in closed loop? 1 hour, > ect. > Thanks, Butch Hi Butch, The max times for my various devices are as follows : 1) 6 x curved ramps .............. 3 hours and 27 minutes. 2) 4 x SMOT Mark I ramps ......... 8 minutes. 3) RMOD Mark I ................... Almost 4 days. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 07:02:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA11474; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 07:01:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 07:01:35 -0700 Message-ID: <339AACC0.7CCB microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 22:29:44 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT Ramp SIzes References: <3395EB61.1241E2D4 verisoft.com.tr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AFD2V3.0.qo2.-ihcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8042 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Greg - > > > I recommend experimentation. I am currently testing > > 78mm (6 x 13mm magnets) and 52mm (4 x 13mm > > magnets) mag arrays. So far the results show the > > 52mm array works better. The magnet spacing can > > then be increased, resulting in an even easier exit. > > I'm using magnets that are about 6mm x 9.5mm x 19mm (1/4" x 3/8" x 3/4"). > The closest I can get to the 52mm size with the magnets I have is 57mm > using a 3-by array. Stacking three deep makes the array about 19mm wide. > That sound about right for a 'short' array? Should this get the 3mm steel > backing? And what about the ramp length for that size array? Does "ramp > length" mean the length of the inclined portion only, not counting the flat > part, or does it mean the whole thing including a 20mm flat section? I'm > having a hard time scaling ramps to arrays. Thanks. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI Hi Rick, I find that the ramp length should be around 13-15mm shorter than the magnet arrays. That differential has held for ramps from 50mm to 250mm. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 07:04:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA09221; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 07:03:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 07:03:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <339AAF35.1E9B microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 22:40:13 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flexible magnetic strip & SMOT References: <1188351771.12137320 compcafe.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xaIGN3.0._F2.Gkhcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8045 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A Geoff Greaves wrote: > > With little time to experiment I had a single SMOT happily performing with a > climb the height of a ball-pen's diameter but at 12mm climb the ball leapt > off to one side or the other depending upon (rough) adjustment. I put a piece > of flexible magnetic strip on the inside of the built-up magnets (100mm long > from 4 x 20 x 5 x 3 deep + steel strip) and hey-presto, easy-peasy drop-off > at 12mm climb. I don't understand why. Will get a bit and try to duplicate. > I have bought 10m of strip and will experiment with it more. > Although it may need plenty of layers to achieve sufficient BH it's cheap > enough at UK1.80/m, 10mm wide x 3.5mm thick. > I believe I have found one answer to the lack of time for experimentation > problem; get the kids interested. Unfortunately the one who won the school's > science prize this year is doing exams until the end of next week but then > she'll be completely free for the rest of the summer! > I'm afraid my son's interest is fuelled by thoughts of a magnetic > ball-bearing weapon of some sort. I'll get him a train set; N gauge, of > course. > ---------------------------------------- > >From Geoff Greaves: geoff compcafe.co.uk > ---------------------------------------- Hi Geoff, How far away from the ball is the magnetic strip at exit? -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 07:06:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA11626; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 07:01:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 07:01:53 -0700 Message-ID: <339AAE81.34C6 microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 22:37:13 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: radius with N gauge References: <970606132912_-228641817 emout08.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e74TY.0.Tr2.Gjhcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8044 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte aol.com wrote: > > Greg, > What is the shortest radius you can get with the flexable N gauge track? > Thanks, Butch Hi Butch, About 100mm. Suspect this depends on the quality of the flexible track. I don't like short radius turns. They loose a lot of energy as one side of the ball skids around. The tighter the radius, the worst this gets. Maybe Nasa Frank can help here. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 07:07:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA09930; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 07:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 07:06:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Tstolper aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:05:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970608100507_-1464011588 emout04.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Ego Improvements Resent-Message-ID: <"Co6rP2.0.4R2.Ynhcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8046 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A In a post of May 30, Bill Beaty referred to "ego improvements" when assembling kits or electronic devices. I hadn't heard the term before. It sounds applicable in science, too. When did the term "ego improvement" gain currency in electronic hobby circles? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 10:04:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA05098; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:02:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:02:34 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:01:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706081701.MAA08492 dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com> From: aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki ) Subject: CETI Cold Fusion/Transmutation news by Mallove To: "Eugene F. Mallove" <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com To: jaeger ENECO-USA.com Resent-Message-ID: <"kY32t1.0.aF1.gMkcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8047 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: June 8, 1996 'Gene, you wrote: >(snips) >COLD FUSION on ABC TV "Good Morning America" --Wednesday June 11, 1997 > >The working prototype water heater by Clean Energy Technologies, Inc. >will be profiled. According to company sources, the device (which does >NOT use Dr. Patterson's coated-bead technology, but instead a new >method developed by the company) has been producing continuously >several hundred watts excess energy since last February. It is claimed >to be completely reproducible and an instant turn-on device. It can >produce water at boiling temperature. Also, the ability of another >CETI process to substantially reduce the radioactivity in thorium and >uranium will be profiled. Wonderful to hear! The item of CETI NOT using bead coated technology is very interesting. Is Pons & Fleischmann to be given any vindication and credit during the broadcast? 1. I wonder if beads created more problems than it's touted advantages. I think it did. And if this was so, then their whole patent portfolio up to now, is just a collection. 2. Is this why we have been hearing of CETI challenging the Pons & Fleischmann patents as being too overly broad? 3. And if the patent challenge had been brought up by CETI, then their "new" technology has every possibility of infringing on the P&F patents. 4. What is the remaining life of the P&F patents? I understand the life of a patent is now twenty years. The P&F patents were issued before this new term. So does this mean it is stuck with the old term or the new one? 5. I wonder if the radioactive remediation effect is Patentible if that effect is part of the process of the P&F patents which was not specifically claimed but naturally occurs as part & parcel of it? I do not think it can be patented as separate. 6. I would think ENECO, which has the P&F patents would be vitally interested in the whole CETI process. -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 10:07:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA06075; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706081702.KAA12745 germany.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_865772629==_" To: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: RMOD I Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Attachments: D:\EARTHLNK\EUDORA\ROTOR1.GIF;D:\EARTHLNK\EUDORA\ROTOR2.G IF; D:\EARTHLNK\EUDORA\ROTOR4.GIF; D:\EARTHLNK\EUDORA\ROTOR3.GIF; Resent-Message-ID: <"_Vdaw3.0.jU1.zNkcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8048 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --=====================_865772629==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:15 PM 6/7/97 EDT, Terry Blanton wrote: >Michael, > >>>Didn't you see Greg's posts on his preliminary idea of his rotary (RMOD Mark >I?) design?<< > >I was off the list for a week on vacation and tried to catch up via the >archives; so, I must've missed that. If you could email it direct, I'd be >grateful! > >Terry Hi Terry, Here are the attached gifs below. Greg posted these some time ago. He also has one shown on his web page. I guess RMOD Mark I is a wheel in the center with the balls separated by individual fins that pushes the wheel round and round. The center shaft (2mm?) would then be used for power takeoff. This looks alot simplier compared to the multi-ramps of SMOT! Yes! 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--=====================_865772629==_-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 11:36:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA18417; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <339AFA61.76C6 skypoint.com> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 13:30:57 -0500 From: John Logajan Organization: Skypoint Communications, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: CETI Cold Fusion/Transmutation news by Mallove References: <199706081701.MAA08492 dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7m0nr.0.fV4.Welcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8049 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Akira Kawasaki wrote: > 4. What is the remaining life of the P&F patents? I understand the life > of a patent is now twenty years. The P&F patents were issued before > this new term. So does this mean it is stuck with the old term or the > new one? I don't think the P&F patents were issued in the US. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 12:06:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA23142; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:04:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:04:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: 08 Jun 97 13:37:33 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Magnet strip Message-ID: <970608173732_100433.1541_BHG52-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"AhdMt3.0.Wf5.49mcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8050 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg, I was wondering if you had considered the possibility of magnets cut to specific shapes - like a wedge, for instance. It might be worth simulating wedge shapes to take the Blanton wedges to their logical conclusion. Or wedges could (for now) be built up from lengths of magnetic strip. Apparently there are two varieties, ones with alternating N and S poles on the same side, and the other which has the same pole along the one side. By the way, I did ask why you now felt three ramps would do as well as your original four? Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 12:08:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA26820; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:07:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:07:00 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:06:54 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ego Improvements In-Reply-To: <970608100507_-1464011588 emout04.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"x_OhE1.0.-Y6.IBmcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8051 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 8 Jun 1997 Tstolper aol.com wrote: > In a post of May 30, Bill Beaty referred to "ego improvements" when > assembling kits or electronic devices. I hadn't heard the term before. It > sounds applicable in science, too. When did the term "ego improvement" gain > currency in electronic hobby circles? I heard it used a few times on sci.electronics newsgroup in the last few years. I don't know if the term is recent or old. When I first heard it, I thought: THAT is the perfect term to explain why unusual physics is rarely replicated: our egos interfere and cause us to 'improve' the hardware before even attaining an initial success. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 12:17:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA24447; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Comments: Authenticated sender is From: ben clubelite.com (Ben Tammetta) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 03:06:17 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: FE Collaborating, Voice Communication Reply-to: tammetta mindspring.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Message-ID: <19970608191721123.AAA235 jumanji> Resent-Message-ID: <"RW2t7.0.tz5.vEmcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8052 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello all, Because we are all so spread out across the world, I though It would be appropriate to send information on a great tool that will give us another form of communication to share device information and construction details. I've been experimenting with a great FREE tool that lets you talk and recieve audio and video over the net. It's just as good as a telephone, execpt no long distance charges. I was blow away by the quality! It's very easy to use and very useful It's called *NetMeeting* by Microsoft Get it here: http://www.microsoft.com/netmeeting/nm2/homefeatures.htm To test it. When you have it installed. Press the Call button and copy and paste my address (below) in. I have a full time connection..and am in most evenings US EST. My Net Meeting Address: ils.business.four11.com/ben clubelite.com Want to discuss my SMOT status? Ben Tammetta ben clubelite.com ###################### # Ben Tammetta # # ben clubelite.com # ###################### From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 12:23:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA29382; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:19:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:19:23 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:19:16 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flexible magnetic strip & SMOT In-Reply-To: <339AAF35.1E9B microtronics.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cIToh.0.0B7.wMmcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8053 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 8 Jun 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > Geoff Greaves wrote: > > > > With little time to experiment I had a single SMOT happily performing with a > > climb the height of a ball-pen's diameter but at 12mm climb the ball leapt > > off to one side or the other depending upon (rough) adjustment. I put a piece > > of flexible magnetic strip on the inside of the built-up magnets (100mm long > > from 4 x 20 x 5 x 3 deep + steel strip) and hey-presto, easy-peasy drop-off > > at 12mm climb. > > I don't understand why. Will get a bit and try to duplicate. Everyone: An observation about "rubberized" magnets: they can be re-poled with neodymium magnets. While most flexible strip magnets (like those from Radio Shack) are poled with N/S polarity on the same face, it is possible to remagnetize them as desired. Simply stamp them with a large NIB magnet. The NIB is strong enough to erase the old magnetization pattern and impose its own. Even better is to momentarily clamp the flexible magnet between TWO neo magnets, oriented so faces attract of course. The same thing can be done to smaller ceramic magnets, but large ceramic magnets can only be partially remagnetized. So, if one were to grind a small ceramic magnet into a fancy curve, but then find that overheating had demagnetized it, it is possible to use an NIB slug to remagnetize it as desired. Another possibility: once an array of small ceramic magnets have been glued together, a large NIB magnet can be used to strengthen and smooth their fields so that the "cogging" effect is reduced. Somewhere I have some large ceramic speaker magnets (donut disks) with invisible writing. I "wrote" on them with a small chip of neodymium magnet. When placed against a viewer-bottle full of baby oil and steel fibers, the fibers collect on the pole pattern and make the "writing" visible. (Obtain steel fibers by cutting up fine-grade steel wool with scissors. See my website for an article on making a "field-viewing bottle). .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 12:49:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA28991; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:44:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970607222059_100433.1541_BHG81-2 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 14:08:10 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"T2fao3.0.i47.Lkmcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8055 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris - > I think that's all a bit silly. > Why speculate on a source of energy? Not silly. Because the nature of the energy would then give clues as to the construction and adjustment of successful devices, and vice-versa. It's more the first item I'm interested in at this preliminary stage. The clue "won't work with horizontal ball travel, but will work with vertical ball travel" if true and confirmed, strongly indicates those wheel methods won't work, and that gravity might very well be required as the restoring force as opposed to elastic forces or armature/ball KE. See? Saves time on dead ends and guides us in the right direction. > No, they are not having trouble. One person has reported > trouble getting back to where he was, and I'm not surprised. No, two people have; Naudin and Tammetta. They put up AVIs of their work, and then reported difficulty reproducing and linking. > I think you are just blowing a smokescreen. What interest do you suppose I have in screening something? What's to hide? I'm just trying to find out what's going on here, and find out the best way to build and adjust SMOTs. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 12:49:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA32344; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:47:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:47:53 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:46:06 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: GIFS, the Archive, Bill Beaty Resent-Message-ID: <"JP_Gv1.0.Hv7.dnmcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8060 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A At 10:02 AM 6/8/97, Michael Randall wrote: >At 12:15 PM 6/7/97 EDT, Terry Blanton wrote: >>Michael, >> >>>>Didn't you see Greg's posts on his preliminary idea of his rotary (RMOD Mark >>I?) design?<< >> >>I was off the list for a week on vacation and tried to catch up via the >>archives; so, I must've missed that. If you could email it direct, I'd be >>grateful! >> >>Terry [snip] I was off of vortex for a week or so also. I've been off freenrg for a long time. When I tried to catch up with the vortex archive it appeared the archive was either down or way behind - probably due to all the traffic and GIFs set through vortex. The GIFs show up in the archive as pages of garbage. Bill Beaty may have his hands full sorting all that out, but maybe much of the info (mid-May on) is simply lost due to the file size being too big? Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 12:50:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA28976; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:44:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 14:56:25 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"tfnMV3.0.W47.Kkmcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8054 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace - > If you can connect on the flat you can connect on the round. That assumption may be false. We are building magnetic circuits here. My guess is that they are open systems. They are apparently connected to an exterior larger circuit loop of some sort, and this loop is apparently providing the energy. If we close our small SMOT loop with continuous linking, we might kill the effect since we've cut that larger loop out of the circuit. You might be claiming that the energy appears in the circuit as a consequence of those elements operating in, of, and by themselves no matter what the potential is at the ends of the system, but the things I've seen so far suggest this isn't so. If you make the potential the same at the ends of the system by making the system endless (circular), you've got flat net potential. In other words, it may be important to leave the system open to the environment, with the ends at different magnetic potential. That way we've got a 'plug' of sorts to insert into that mysterious larger loop. Energy seems to come in from somewhere in the environment in this case. If this is true, you'll need a source and sink in order to get energy to flow so you can tap off a percentage of it. There are two main loops. One is the energy gaining circuit, the other is the energy tapping circuit. If this were a water wheel, The *ball* going around is our wheel sans the buckets - one loop. The *ramps* are our buckets on the rim of the wheel - the other loop. There has to be an entrance and an exit for the water to flow, so don't ever close that second loop. You'll open the first loop when you use your newly harvested energy (it's already open a bit due to it's own friction). Look at the entry to the first ramp. You see high magnetic potential 'as if' it were a simple electrical potential. Balls enter at that potential. They exit the low potential in the stronger B field end by dropping out the last blue hole, and move in a rollaround more or less free of the fields in a really big 'deep blue' blue hole, where they can gain some of that potential back that they had at the start (somehow). You could probably build an analog of a magnetic SMOT with static electricity, gathering it inductively from the air to a conveyer of charge carrier elements at one end, and grounding it off at the other - a sort of self propelled van de Graff. But if you close that energy-gathering loop up, cutting off from your source and sink, and you get nothing. (Admit it Chris, this is making sense, and suggests design parameters to strive for.) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 12:52:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA29473; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:46:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: SMOT: I'm confused: Has the loop been cl Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:08:05 +0000 Message-ID: <19970608130803.AAA2542 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"WcDag3.0.JC7.Ummcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8057 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:55 PM 6/7/97 +0000, Rick wrote: >Frederick - > > > That 300 KV electric field between the earth and the > > ionosphere that is is set up by atmospheric > > solar-thunderstorm energy, IS NOT OU ENERGY. :-) > >Yeah, but it would be "FREE"! > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > About as "Free" as that 12,000 Quads/day Solar insolation. Man produces-uses a bit less than one Quad (1E15 Btu/day). Contemplate the water cycle: 1, The Sun evaporates a pound of water (about a thousand BTU's). 2,The gravity field-atmosphere "buoys up" the water vapor to 10,000 ft. 3, The water vapor gives up the 1,000 BTU's and it deposits on Mt. Ida as snow. 4, The Sun melts the snow (150 BTU's/lb). 5, The water fills Lake Titicaca. 6, Lake Titicaca water runs the Grand Tetonies Hydro power plant. Conclusion: Hydropower is Gravity Power! :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 12:52:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA29406; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:46:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: chronos enter.net From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Snowflake Memory - more info Cc: linten imaginet.fr, vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:01:09 +0000 Message-ID: <19970608120105.AAA14588 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"oEYin3.0.9B7.Immcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8056 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Robert & Jean-Pierre: Just to spice things up a bit, consider the means of motility of bacteria, the "swimming" of sperm cells, the "sweeping" effect of cilia-stereocillia in the trachea, and the motion of stereocillia (motion in the watery cochlear fluids)in the hearing process of the inner ear.The incredible sensitivity, feedback mechanisms, noise rejection, tinnitus disorders, and what-not, suggest mechanisms that are out of the range of ordinary mechanical contrivances. You just can't swim very well without water, can you? :-) The fibrils that can sweep in a wave motion or rotate at up around 2400 rpm (vortex effects?)or so just don't have fibers and tendons in them to act as a musculature or limb. It seems from a speculative view that the water molecules are again part of the motive process. :-) Check out "How the ear's work's works", and more. A.J. Hudspeth; Nature. Come to think of it, fish are pretty smart, too. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 12:55:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA29608; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:47:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Robert G. Flower" (by way of "Frederick J. Sparber" ) Subject: Re: Snowflake Memory - more info Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:09:00 +0000 Message-ID: <19970608120858.AAA15913 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"L0Z773.0.YE7.mmmcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8059 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Jean-Pierre and Frederick: On 7 Jun 97 at 15:09, Jean-Pierre Lentin wrote: > Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:09:54 +0200 (METDST) > To: frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net > Subject: Snowflake Memory > Here is a late answer to your intriguing speculation. It seems to me > than snowflakes, being very impredictible and unstable, will never > qualify for a future microprocessor. I agree, but since snowflakes are so BEAUTIFUL, here are a few more speculations: What factors control the fine-structure details of snowflakes? I'd be interested to know the effects of electrical, magnetic, and electromagnetic fields on the structure of snowflakes. Also, I wonder if specially treated water (eg, homeopathic dilutions, or radionically-treated water) forms distinctive snowflake patterns?? All this based on the fact that crystallization (freezing) is a critical-point phenomenon, so it might be ultra-sensitive to weakly H-bonded "clusters" in the water. > Apparently these structural clusters are very tricky to measure.As > far as I know, models are presently theoretical, and sophisticated > spectroscopy, like Raman laser, only give hints. I was of course > very interested by the infos provided by Robert Flower, and by his > report on the the Advanced Water Research Symposium. I'll have to > buy their proceedings some day. Lots of exciting new research.! Also in the Proceedings are long papers by "frontier" scientists Elizabeth Rauscher and James Beal, and a report on engineer Marcel Vogel's work with scalar fields, quartz crystals, and structured water. > The Hameroff & Penrose model of brain functioning via microtubules > and coherent water seems very close to a "computing water" notion. As early as 1982, Hameroff proposed an explicit mechanism for this: "Information processing in microtubules," J. Theor. Biol. 98: 549-561. Each microtubule is a hollow cylinder comprised of tubulin molecules, roughly 40 molecules around and thousands of molecules long. Each tubulin molecule has TWO conformations (ie, a binary 0 or 1 state), which are distinguished from each other by the position of a single electron in the molecule. Hameroff showed how arrays of these two-state tubulin molecules could do logic and arithmetic. What's new is the quantum connection: These electrons are now thought to act like "antennae" for quantum-mechanical effects, which are amplified million-fold in the microtubule. Physicist Jack Sarfatti has an ingenious and somewhat plausible theory to explain consciousness on this basis. See website at http://www.hia.com/hia/pcr/ or http://www.stardrive.org/ I doubt that consciousness could ever be explained by ANY deterministic mechanism, but the physics is still fascinating!! > It's still speculative, but apparently gaining ground. I'm currently > reading Michael Denton's new book "The long chain of coincidence" > (just published in France and UK, not sure about the US). Any details as to publisher and date? Also, I heard of a book published by Thorsons (UK) titled something like "The Memory of Water" -- but libraries in USA can't find any info. Any clues? Best regards, Bob Flower ============================================= Robert G. Flower, Applied Science Associates Bioelectromagnetics Instrumentation Systems ============================================= From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 12:56:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA29500; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:47:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:08:09 +0000 Message-ID: <19970608130803.AAB2542 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"QDWar3.0.iC7.Xmmcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8058 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:42 AM 6/8/97 +0000, Richard Wall wrote: >You wrote: >> >>If magnet is regarded as pump for ether and the ether varies with >>phases of moon, then a variation in behavior with time of month could >>be noted. If true for women why not SMOT's >> >> > >6/7/97 > >It's not true for women, so why would it be true for SMOTs? > >RWW > It is well known that the 29 day lunar cycle is-was tied to the 29 day estrus cycle and the multiples of 29 day gestation period of many creatures. Seems to have something to do with the pineal body on the brain stem. And the secretion of a hormone called melatonin, possibly triggered by certain infrared radiation absorbed by this "primative eye-clock" on this 29 day full-moon "pulse". Even many species of plants require this "lunar clock pulse" before they will flower-reproduce. Johnny Carson was obsessed with this. In May 1981 I sent him a note on the use of moonlight at full moon by the Air Force to "calibate" a radio telescope and he read it on his show. I was swamped with phone calls and letters from all over the North America's. That program was rerun two years later with the same results. Put Belen, New Mexico on the map. :-) Perhaps if you had a boy SMOT along with a girl SMOT, next full moon.....? Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 13:54:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA08154; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:49:48 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"rxzGT1.0.K_1._jncp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8061 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 2:56 PM 6/7/97, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Horace - > > > If you can connect on the flat you can connect on the round. > >That assumption may be false. I am asserting it is a logical conclusion, not an assumption, as you indicate. If any loop is closed it is *not* closed due to a symmetric potential, in fact can only be closed due a non-symmetric potential. Greg says he closed the loop. Ergo, the ou portion of the energy process is *not* due to a potential of any kind which is affected by closing a loop. > >We are building magnetic circuits here. >My guess is that they are open >systems. Now *that* is an assumption! Calorimetry will tell, assuming a closed loop system is widely replicated. >They are apparently connected to an exterior larger circuit loop >of some sort, and this loop is apparently providing the energy. If we close >our small SMOT loop with continuous linking, we might kill the effect since >we've cut that larger loop out of the circuit. You might be claiming that >the energy appears in the circuit as a consequence of those elements >operating in, of, and by themselves no matter what the potential is at the >ends of the system, but the things I've seen so far suggest this isn't so. >If you make the potential the same at the ends of the system by making the >system endless (circular), you've got flat net potential. As I and others have said all along, if you have ou it's outside of Maxwell's laws. It has to be an inconsitency in laws, a break in symmetry. I gave my little shots at describing possible logical chinks via Thermal Electromagnetic Drift (TED), and also via the idea of ZPE forces acting directly on magnetic flux tubes to create imbalanced longitudinal forces, or a zipper effect. Puthoff has provided a basis via ZPE recharging or re-inflation of induction deflated obitals. Larry Wharton is looking at the relationship of Maxwell's laws and thermodynamics. I think it is important to keep in mind that the laws of thermodynamics are *assumptions* and, maybe even more importantly, that energy is not a real thing. Energy is only a calculated value. It is a human concept, a form of accounting, not a real world thing. There is a difference between a ledger sheet and a factory. [snip] > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI The objective has to be close the loop because otherwise we don't have anything, especially we don't have anything to discuss as to *why* it works since we don't know, scientifically speaking, *if* it works. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 14:14:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA11642; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 14:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 14:11:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Project IDA Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 21:10:02 +0000 Message-ID: <19970608211000.AAA23479 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"VWaOu1.0.ir2.w_ncp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8062 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Vortex: The International Defense Alliance (IDA) is using scalar field transmitters to ward off invasion by extra-terrestials. Although not particularly powerful these fields can readily penetrate metals causing disruption of magnetic spin vectors, ie., magnetic field properties and other such phenomena. A "side effect" causes "Over-Unity" effects such as witnessed in recent years in the P & F cells, Sonoluminescent devices, Yusmar, and more recently SMOTs. If this is not clear to anyone, I suggest a shot of 180 proof "EVERCLEAR" available at your local liqour store at about $8.00/pint. :-) Cheers! Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 14:48:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA16138; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 14:46:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 14:46:25 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:45:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706082145.QAA19325 dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Re: Water for brain works well To: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"lHD0k3.0.4y3.nWocp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8063 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You all wrote: > > >Yes, I have read about the "water head" as well. Why is this such a >small deal ? > >A person without a brain shouldn't be able to live, see, talk, pass a >simple arithmetic test or get a BSc degree. > >How can such an occurrence be ignored, no matter how rare it is ? >This should flip our science inside out ? > >...anyone...Barry ? > > > >At 11:17 PM 6/7/97 EDT, you wrote: >>Frederick, >>"Is it possible that our brain cells are using this interaction with >>the water in our brains, and if we get dehydrated we become stupid?" >> >>I heard from a reliable source (I'll see if I can find the name) that >>an anacephalic, a person born with only a brain stem, can function >>quite normally and at least one has a BSc. The cranium is filed with >>fluid but no cells. >> >>Also be aware that a lot of people are dehydrated and many diseases >>are cured by rehydration (There are currently two books available on >>this subject) >> >> >>-- Mike -- 6/8/97 As a practicing obstetrician for the past 25 years I am well familiar with these central nervous system anomalies. All anencephalics die. Period. They have no cranium to protect the little bit of brain stem they have. The terminal event is almost always sepsis (infection). An interesting aside is that those born alive usually have normal bodies except for their central nervous system. Many times their parents will donate their organs for transplants when the succumb. Hydrocephally comes in various degrees. In the past these babies and fetuses were often destroyed. There may be different degrees of ventricular dilatation and cortical atrophy due to the pressure of cerebral spinal fluid. Often times neurosurgeons place indwelling shunts and the high pressure CSF is drained away into the venous system. It is not uncommon for these children to have normal intelligence. An interesting subset is those children that have marked cortical atrophy with just a thin rim cerebral cortex. The human brain is an amazing organ and it may reprogram its synapses and connections in highly unusual ways. These children may become idiot savants. They may have amazing capabilities in very limited fields such as a classical pianist, but are totally deficient in all other areas. Example the character in Rain Man. The brain's architecture it seems is similar to a parallel computer and functions almost as a holograph. Large areas of human brain may be removed in nonvital areas in adults and often there is little measurable deficit. Reprogramming of the brain's synapses probably explains this phenomenon as well as the idiot savant's behavior. Central nervous system water metabolism is tightly controlled by various mechanisms and it's just too simplistic to surmise that dehydration/hydration is determinate of intelligence one way or the other. RWW From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 15:22:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA20271; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:17:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:17:31 -0700 From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:16:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970608181616_1619887828 emout07.mail.aol.com> To: DMProdxn aol.com, jrwalton@msn.com, cismert@msn.com, jseese@gpu.com, CldFusion aol.com, GeorgeHM@aol.com, 76570.2270@compuserve.com, 72240.1256 compuserve.com, RMCarrell@aol.com, Puthoff@aol.com, fstenger interlaced.net, 101544.702@compuserve.com, RVargo1062@aol.com, peter itim.org.soroscj.ro, mcfee@xdiv.lanl.gov, zap@dnai.com, reed zenergy.com, noever@webtv.net, JEFFJ@ep.state.az.us, marc.g.millis lerc.nasa.gov, herman@college.antioch.edu, Lentin imaginet.fr, barry@math.ucla.edu, kennel@nhelab.iae.or.jp, jayneg grove.iup.edu, bssimon@helix.ucsd.edu, vortex-l@eskimo.com, gam+ pitt.edu Subject: It softens up the nucleus! Resent-Message-ID: <"qKi54.0.by4.wzocp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8064 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: After leaving the Marshall Spaceflight Center I felt that nothing significant had happened. Now a day later I'm struck by the magnitude of the event. At first Noever and Znidarsic were miles apart and not in communication. Noever was the first to realize that Znidarsic's idea about the "range of force interaction" was another way of looking at his "downshifting of frequencies" concept. Noever and his group had been focused on there their gravitational theories. Znidarsic prodded Noever to apply his theory to the nucleus. Without much thought or reflection Nowever said, "It softens up the nucleus!" That statement reflected a true moment of discovery. Znidarsic following his train of logic and Noever following another train of logic had now arrived at the same point. The world had changed. The magnitude of this change will forever effect what is printed in textbooks and materially change the way people live. The five word statement "It softens up the nucleus" rates right up there with Einstein's five word comment, "God does not play dice" and Edward Tryon's comment, "The Universe is a vacuum fluctuation" Out of the billions of people who have ever lived on the earth the only other person who will currently appreciate the significance of what has transpired is George Miley. Frank Znidarsic  From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 16:08:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA30131; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:03:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:03:51 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:03:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706082303.SAA10325 dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> From: aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki ) Subject: Re: CETI Cold Fusion/Transmutation news by Mallove To: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"duuj32.0.iM7.Mfpcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8065 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: June 8, 1997 John you wrote: > >I don't think the P&F patents were issued in the US. That's true. Was it in France? So P&F's patent must be running on a 20 year basis. The U.S. patent change adjusted to the rest of the world in length from 17. Now with CETI proving o/u with a P&F type electrochemical process, does this give P&F any first rights to a U.S. patent (originally denied) for their original discovery? And is this what CETI is challenging? I wonder. -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 16:14:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA27535; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:10:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970608211000.AAA23479 LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:08:25 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Project IDA Resent-Message-ID: <"kZbh6.0.9k6.Xlpcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8066 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick - > The International Defense Alliance (IDA) > is using scalar field transmitters > to ward off invasion by extra-terrestials. Just one question. Are we indeed being shielded from a hostile invasion, or are we being shielded from rescue by hostile captors? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 16:18:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA28649; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:16:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970608130803.AAA2542 LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:14:43 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: SMOT: I'm confused: Has the loop been cl Resent-Message-ID: <"pd-zG1.0.Z_6.Rrpcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8067 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick - > Contemplate the water cycle: 1, The Sun evaporates a pound of water > (about a thousand BTU's). 2,The gravity field-atmosphere "buoys up" > the water vapor to 10,000 ft. 3, [...] You forgot to mention the component that falls from space as Frank comets. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 16:22:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA29125; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:20:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970608110643_100433.1541_BHG74-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:18:30 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Snowflake Memory Resent-Message-ID: <"agkeg1.0._67.zupcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8069 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris - re: brainless people/mathematicians - Our old friend John Ratcliff was into this stuff, and I think he had a list or article or something that had lots of bona-fide medical miracles, and this was among them. Remember something like that, or am I just subconsciously confabulating again? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 16:24:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA29405; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:23:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:23:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706082321.AAA12671 tycho.global.net.uk> From: "Cyber Computer Networks Ltd." To: Subject: SMOT V2 Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:18:55 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ui0BK1.0.NB7.Jxpcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8070 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, My single ramp seems to be getting worse so maybe there is something in this Lunar cycle after all. One suggestion is that you put guides at the drop point to prevent the ball flying left or right. You could use a small ring, or series of rings, of copper tube just as it starts its descent. But the length must not be too much as to prevent the level rollout. Two sheets of aluminium may work. I found that if you put the ball into a snug fitting piece of copper tubing over the drop point you can spread the magnet arrays apart until the ball drops, this sets the field strength to that less than the magnets can hold, BUT because the ball may be starting slightly higher and therefore already falling slightly then you could bring the arrays in a touch. I will have to get some more magnets ASAP and get a 2 ramp version going like the rest of you, I feel a bit left out playing with just a single ramp while some of you have enough magnets to build probaly ten ramps. I was thinking earlier today that if this SMOT does work as a closed loop then maybe this opens up all the other devices like the John Bendini magnet motor that uses steel shutters to nullify the magnetic field at the right point. The RMOD looks like a cross between a SMOT and a bent version of Newtons Cradle. I guess the chink, chink, chink that Greg refered to must be the falling ball impacting on the semi-circular stack of ball bearings. Still SMOTting away with the rest of you. I think I go to sleep at night counting ball bearings jump over a 15mm high fence :-) Rob King From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 16:23:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA00941; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:18:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:18:47 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:18:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706082318.SAA28648 dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! To: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"E_-Pm.0.ZE.Mtpcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8068 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: 6/8/97 Fred wrote: snip >>6/7/97 >> >>It's not true for women, so why would it be true for SMOTs? >> >>RWW >> >It is well known that the 29 day lunar cycle is-was tied to the >29 day estrus cycle and the multiples of 29 day gestation period >of many creatures. This is patently untrue for women. The "classic" human menstral cycle is based on 28 days. Individual cycles are often longer or shorter. But, it's not based on a 29 day cycle. Secondly, humans are not on an estrus cycle. An estrus cycle implies reflex ovulation to mating and is seen in lower mammals. An example is the cats penis has a ring if sharp barbs on the end and as the penis is withdrawn from the female cat it produces scratches in the vagina. This triggers ovulation. Listen to the commotion the next time you hear two cats mate. It is a true estrus cycle and cat ovulation has nothing to do with a "29 day lunar cycle". Fortunately, this isn't the case in humans although there are often other types of scratching and commotion going on. %^} Human gestation is 280 days or ten 28 day menstral cycles. The key point is that ovulation in humans and other animals occurs uniformly 365 days per year on this earth and is not tied to any "29 day lunar cycle". Nor, may I add, are human deliveries tied to any lunar cycle or weather events such as drop in barometric pressure. These anecdotal tales are ingrained in our urban legends and pop culture, but are not scientifically verifiable. >Seems to have something to do with the pineal body on the brain stem. >And the secretion of a hormone called melatonin, possibly triggered by >certain infrared radiation absorbed by this "primative eye-clock" on >this 29 day full-moon "pulse". There is always a full moon around this planet somewhere. It just doesn't happen to be true that all women and animals in that geographic area are triggered into ovulation by this '29 day full-moon "pulse".' Quite the contrary, ovulation is quite random, particurally in humans and often in animals. Certain animal species may be influenced by seasonal variations which aren't tied to a "29 day lunar cycle". snip RWW From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 16:44:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA02032; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:42:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:42:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Project IDA Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:41:21 +0000 Message-ID: <19970608234119.AAA29743 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"4Y-Nb2.0.fV.pDqcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8071 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:08 PM 6/8/97 +0000, Rick wrote: >Frederick - > > > The International Defense Alliance (IDA) > > is using scalar field transmitters > > to ward off invasion by extra-terrestials. > >Just one question. > >Are we indeed being shielded from a hostile invasion, or are we being >shielded from rescue by hostile captors? > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > The way you phrased the question leaves me unsure??? Is there a comma missing someplace? I need a drink of water on that one, Rick. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 17:04:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA08120; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:02:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:02:20 -0700 Message-ID: <339B4810.6683 concentric.net> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 18:02:24 -0600 From: Ron McFee Reply-To: mcfee concentric.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: mcfee lanl.gov Subject: CETI vs PF on patents References: <199706082303.SAA10325 dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2Irkc3.0.o-1.BWqcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8073 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Akira Kawasaki wrote: > > June 8, 1997 > > John you wrote: > > > >I don't think the P&F patents were issued in the US. > > That's true. Was it in France? So P&F's patent must be running on a 20 > year basis. The U.S. patent change adjusted to the rest of the world in > length from 17. > > Now with CETI proving o/u with a P&F type electrochemical process, does > this give P&F any first rights to a U.S. patent (originally denied) for > their original discovery? And is this what CETI is challenging? I > wonder. > > -AK- This will be an interesting legal battle. Pons and Fleischmann cetainly have some claim. However what little that I know of patent law is that "reduction to practive" carries more weight than mere invention. The P&F patent also has previous interference from some German and Swedish work of the 1920's and early 1930's. Personally I support CETI's claim if they can publicly demonstrate before Stanley Pons. (Fleischmann seems to have had a falling out with him.) P&F have had eight years to demonstrate their device had have failed. They have wasted a lot of their own time and resources, as well as that of countless other. They can "drink from the sea," as our Arab friends might say. Regards, Ron From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 17:04:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA07583; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:00:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:00:16 -0700 Message-Id: <339B476F.662153DB verisoft.com.tr> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 03:59:43 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199706082318.SAA28648 dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gc_k8.0.Ms1.FUqcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8072 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Richard Wayne Wall wrote: <...> > There is always a full moon around this planet somewhere. <...> I think it is not true. Moon's illuminated side view from Earth depend on Sun-Earth-Moon angle. This angle vary with the rotation of the moon around the Earth. When the moon is the same side of the Sun, there is no or little moon. If the moon is on the opposite site of the Sun we able to see most of the its illuminated surface. I have no comment to other parts of the discussion. Regards, Hamdi Ucar "Half moon tonight. It is better than no moon at all!" From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 17:11:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA05684; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:09:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:09:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 14:07:29 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"fdbgr3.0.hO1.vcqcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8074 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace - > Now *that* is an assumption! Calorimetry will tell, > assuming a closed loop system is widely replicated. I think all ideas on how SMOTs work are assumptions. Is a hypothesis not a temporary assumption? It's what I can use as a guide while trying something out. I'm not saying "this is how it works" like I'm claiming that's the whole story. Nor is it just idle speculation for its and ego's own sake. I just make trial assumptions and work on where they lead. Like this one: the more blue you get, the better. Have you tried a horizontal elbow yet? Easy to make with heat formable plastic. I used Sintra. I tried them in a closed circle, but not in a left-right-left-right linear zig-zag array. That might show something. I get the impression from the work I've done that if you 'go away' from the starting point, you get a steady increase in energy. But when you try to bend back towards the start, you see things start to tighten up, and evetually bog in a field lock-up. Nothing will link. Now maybe a circle that's 'loose' enough, and which has deep enough blue hole gaps will work, like Greg's closed loop of curved arrays. In a pump analogy, such a closed loop is like an axial flow turbine, with a space for the working fluid to flow into and out of each vane or 'bucket' without interfering too much with flows around adjacent buckets. The point is that a route IN and OUT is preserved. The ins and outs of a SMOT appear to me to be the blue holes - the more the bluer the better. At least that's my *assumption* now. It may eventually be proven wrong or irrelevant, but I'll use it as a guiding concept as I experiment, and see what happens. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 17:18:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA07145; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:17:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:17:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:15:53 +0000 Message-ID: <19970609001551.AAA15405 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"wvsDM3.0.Zl1.Ekqcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8075 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:18 PM 6/8/97 +0000, Richard Wall wrote: >6/8/97 > >Fred wrote: > >>It is well known that the 29 day lunar cycle is-was tied to the >>29 day estrus cycle and the multiples of 29 day gestation period >>of many creatures. > >This is patently untrue for women. The "classic" human menstral cycle >is based on 28 days. Individual cycles are often longer or shorter. Ok, so they got out of synch over the last thousand millennia. Probably a post-partum-from-the-ocean effect. :-) The Horseshoe Crab, "the worlds oldest living fossil" (500 million years)and other aquatic creatures follow the "28 day" lunar cycle. The Horseshoe still retains the "primative eye" photo-receptor that is believed to be similar to the pineal body of humans and other creatures. >But, it's not based on a 29 day cycle. Secondly, humans are not on an >estrus cycle. An estrus cycle implies reflex ovulation to mating and >is seen in lower mammals. An example is the cats penis has a ring if >sharp barbs on the end and as the penis is withdrawn from the female >cat it produces scratches in the vagina. This triggers ovulation. If you think for a moment that I'm going to engage in feline voyeurism, please think again! :-) >Listen to the commotion the next time you hear two cats mate. It is a >true estrus cycle and cat ovulation has nothing to do with a "29 day >lunar cycle". Fortunately, this isn't the case in humans although >there are often other types of scratching and commotion going on. %^} >Human gestation is 280 days or ten 28 day menstral cycles. I was going to put 28 days instead of 29 but got distracted by a couple of cats out in the yard. > >The key point is that ovulation in humans and other animals occurs >uniformly 365 days per year on this earth and is not tied to any "29 >day lunar cycle". Nor, may I add, are human deliveries tied to any >lunar cycle or weather events such as drop in barometric pressure. Watch this group "warm up" at the next full moon. :-) >These anecdotal tales are ingrained in our urban legends and pop >culture, but are not scientifically verifiable. Poor science, perhaps? > >>Seems to have something to do with the pineal body on the brain stem. >>And the secretion of a hormone called melatonin, possibly triggered by >>certain infrared radiation absorbed by this "primative eye-clock" on >>this 29 day full-moon "pulse". > >There is always a full moon around this planet somewhere. It just >doesn't happen to be true that all women and animals in that geographic >area are triggered into ovulation by this '29 day full-moon "pulse". Not so, according to my "Farmers Almanac". >Quite the contrary, ovulation is quite random, particurally in humans >and often in animals. Certain animal species may be influenced by >seasonal variations which aren't tied to a "29 day lunar cycle". Seems more like copulation is "more random, particurally in humans" and more often than in animals. Otherwise you might have gone into veterinary medicine. :-) > >snip > >RWW > Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 17:21:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA11626; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:18:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:18:39 -0700 Message-ID: <339B4B2E.790C microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 09:45:42 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnet strip References: <970608173732_100433.1541_BHG52-2 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"b_-Is3.0.Pr2.Tlqcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8076 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > Greg, > > I was wondering if you had considered the possibility of magnets cut to > specific shapes - like a wedge, for instance. It might be worth > simulating wedge shapes to take the Blanton wedges to their logical > conclusion. Or wedges could (for now) be built up from lengths of > magnetic strip. Apparently there are two varieties, ones with > alternating N and S poles on the same side, and the other which has > the same pole along the one side. > > By the way, I did ask why you now felt three ramps would do as well as > your original four? > > Chris Hi Chris, I got my first rollaround to work with 4 linked ramps. But there is no magic number here. I suggested you experiment with tilting the three you have as thats what you have working and recent experience suggests that 3 may do the job. I am getting good rollaways now with 2 of the SMOT Mark II ramps. Will post more soon. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 17:32:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA14664; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:30:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:30:19 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 20:27:05 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: moon In-Reply-To: <339B476F.662153DB verisoft.com.tr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"oDWe92.0.2b3.Rwqcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8077 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Nasrudin: q: Why is the Moon a more important source of light than the Sun? A: Because you need the light more in the night time. On Mon, 9 Jun 1997, Hamdi Ucar wrote: > Richard Wayne Wall wrote: > > <...> > > There is always a full moon around this planet somewhere. > <...> > > I think it is not true. Moon's illuminated side view from Earth depend > on Sun-Earth-Moon angle. This angle vary with the rotation of the moon > around the Earth. When the moon is the same side of the Sun, there is no > or little moon. If the moon is on the opposite site of the Sun we able > to see most of the its illuminated surface. > > I have no comment to other parts of the discussion. > > Regards, > > Hamdi Ucar > > "Half moon tonight. It is better than no moon at all!" > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 17:39:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA10082; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:37:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 14:35:51 -1000 To: Vortex-L From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Finsrud & SMOTs Resent-Message-ID: <"Y8MDo3.0.PT2.V1rcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8078 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gnorts SMOTheads - You smotters out there who might be wondering about closed loop mechanics and so forth might want to take another look at the Finsrud device. I just looked at the still frame JPEG I have of it, and it looks like a SMOT that moves the magnet(s) as the ball passes them in its circular horizontal track. I don't understand yet how the ball's momentum or PE is tapped to get the magnets to move, but you can see a somewhat complex assortment of springs and levers that apparently accomplish this task. Anybody able to use their SMOT inspiration to now see how this thing works? I feel like I now understand the basic principle, but the mechanical details are still unclear. And how long was this thing suppposed to run? Wasn't it weeks, or a month or so? Looks to me like a closed-loop SMOT. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 17:52:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA19413; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:50:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:50:42 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 14:49:27 -1000 To: Vortex-L From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Finsrud & SMOTs Resent-Message-ID: <"IcSxu.0.Fl4.XDrcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8080 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I just wrote: < I don't understand yet how the ball's momentum < or PE is tapped to get the magnets to move. Well, I just remembered the wire 'ramps' mounted in the ball's path, and looked again at the JPEG, where I can barely see them. That must be it. The ramplike wires are steep on the attack and shallow on the backside, and apparently get depressed by the passing ball to power the actuated magnets. Those magnets look like those common alnicos, and therefore might be subject to some demagnetization. The thing is probably a CMOT - Complicated Magnetic Overunity Toy. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 17:54:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA19094; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:50:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:50:02 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 19:49:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706090049.TAA19516 dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! To: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"YeSM62.0.Gg4.vCrcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8079 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You wrote: > >Richard Wayne Wall wrote: > ><...> >> There is always a full moon around this planet somewhere. ><...> > >I think it is not true. Moon's illuminated side view from Earth depend >on Sun-Earth-Moon angle. This angle vary with the rotation of the moon >around the Earth. When the moon is the same side of the Sun, there is >no or little moon. If the moon is on the opposite site of the Sun we >able to see most of the its illuminated surface. > >I have no comment to other parts of the discussion. > >Regards, > >Hamdi Ucar > >"Half moon tonight. It is better than no moon at all!" > > Hamdi, You are correct. I was less than clear. I should have said, if there is a full moon as the earth turns on its axis all geographic areas are exposed to the full moon within a twenty four hour period. Following Fred's lunar hypothesis, all human females should have lunar induction of ovulation within that 24 hour window every 29 days. Sort of like Fred's crabs. :-} RWW From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 17:59:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA21077; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:58:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:58:52 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 19:58:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706090058.TAA06649 dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! To: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"O6H5R3.0.B95.BLrcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8082 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred wrote: snip >>These anecdotal tales are ingrained in our urban legends and pop >>culture, but are not scientifically verifiable. > >Poor science, perhaps? snip Actually good science. When hurricane Andrew swept over Miami three years ago there was a precipitous drop in barometric pressure. Researchers at the University of Miami School of Medicine Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology monitored patients in Miami for premature rupture membranes, premature labor and the number of deliveries. There was no statistical difference with sudden decrease in barometric pressure as compared to the controls before and after Andrew. Same for repeated lunar studies at other institutions. Horseshoe crabs were another matter. 8-} RWW From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 18:05:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA12933; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:59:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:59:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970608234119.AAA29743 LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 14:57:08 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Project IDA Resent-Message-ID: <"4yoJx.0._93.TLrcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8081 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick - > The way you phrased the question leaves me unsure??? > Is there a comma missing someplace? I need a drink > of water on that one, Rick. :-) I have trouble with English, that's all. Could have been: 'Are the good guys repelling an invasion, or are the bad guys foiling a rescue attempt'? Somethinglikethatnevermind. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 18:22:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA15011; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:20:58 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 21:19:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970608211934_742494799 emout06.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Project IDA Resent-Message-ID: <"IR10l3.0.Tg3.ufrcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8083 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I hope they don't stop the tooth fairy, he doesn't pose a threat to anyone! Butch From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 18:47:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA17670; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:45:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:45:54 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 21:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970608214154_1376744163 emout13.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: For sale Resent-Message-ID: <"kTOgO1.0._J4.C1scp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8084 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Ufo, used, one owner, (waterhead), flown only on the moon, (Full moons), low mileage! E-mail Butch (No checks), but will trade for SMOT kits From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 18:58:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA30124; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:56:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:56:57 -0700 Message-ID: <339B6236.4D4A microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 11:23:58 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Introduction to RMOD Mark I Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rotwf2.0.cM7.eBscp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8085 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I have attached a Gif. Assuming the ramp is adjusted to "Climb and Drop" conditions. I would like your opinion of what will happen to ball "A" and ball "B". -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 19:00:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA30961; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:59:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:59:13 -0700 Message-ID: <339B62BB.34E8 microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 11:26:11 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RMOD Mark I Introduction Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------19D4692A31FC" Resent-Message-ID: <"6F6LP1.0.XZ7.lDscp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8086 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------19D4692A31FC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I have attached a Gif. Assume the ramp is adjusted to "Climb and Drop" conditions. I would like your opinion of what will happen to ball "A" and ball "B". Sorry for the second send, forgot to do the attach. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ --------------19D4692A31FC Content-Type: image/gif; name="intro.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="intro.gif" R0lGODlh9AEsAfcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBPz8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AMDAwP8AAAD/AP//AAAA//8A/wD//////ywAAAAA9AEsAUAI/wATCBxIsKDBgwgTKlzIsKHD hxAjSpxIsaLFixgzatzIsaPHjyBDihxJsqTJkyhTqlzJsqXLlzBjypxJs6bNmzhz6tzJs6fP n0CDCh1KtKhRnwgSIEjKtKlSp0sHLp36tKpVgkmvUm3K1WpUp0qPih1LtqxZi1nPql3Ltq3b imnfyp1Lt+7YuHOn6rXLt69fl3jf7n3KVS9Uw4H/Kl7MWGpjhIkfS57MOHJfy5Qza+aLWfDm z6BHdoaMePRE02VRh17N2qHql68Llo4turXt2xdpAzYbeDbu38AdB0d7F/Hw45dLy9WNXKDv 5qCZK0wsvaTyiNWhA31em/ji7NidQ//nrl1sWvAN0SNlGNV5dqbleZKPb/C8a/cU1f/UnzAu f/p/zRdUb909RtVDB04H4II3CRgWgqq1V1lK/zFoIUwV1lcXZhle6GFmkXXYoIIflshgiBuS aOKK5aFIl4gsxrgajDI2hxeNNeaoo0i64bijYLMFKeSQRBZp5JFIJqnkkkw26eSTUEYp5ZRU Vmllkj9mqeWWXHbp5ZdghinmmGSW2ZiE7aV5nn9ZqYmfV23euOabbl4l1Zx23vkmVnTuKaGe ewYqXJqC0snmg6SZqeiijGJ05aOQRirppJRWaumlmGaqKZGNdurpp6CGKuqopJZq6qnbJThY gai2utlWhRH/dh2sXbm3ZpzGyXqnqrb66Oqva/kK7LCtCUvssZ8ZK1OuX+FqWFV/IitteNNW u6Ky8lmrbUfY2tTttr9+uxu4jYp7kHLmnpQuucOte99MDrLHbqjuUnuUsPHOe5yQ8dWLU776 9pRgetGeu9F1MfnbIsLFMQwiSf5x5nDAHK0qnkcKmzQamu8h6iXAZbYJUXUZ84iSyBSfNvGZ fE6nZsELlawuxganzBbIFffHrV/KymyzWzj6/BGHV/4Mqot5qWi0vkgvp/TS7DbtGdRUx7zh plhnrfXWXHft9aNVv2h12GSThZ7QZaet9tpst+3223DHLffQG8NFG3+v/am3nWAF/6r3oQbv DbPL7KE9N1pBEoafxYw/K+vLWMWqq64D+1n54846njmbf+da32Cb98osrZxffvjpqKeu+uqs t+7667DHLvvstNdu++2456777murOjhc5/7Oe9lxGgq5ns3KdiOgfJfOvOLD2xwxbB5HH7vh 1lONffZLb8+99N+HP7ZdHIuvqPcHF9/r4oflaf6F6C8b//t3RUf/lvNbdz+X+Zu8f5f9o9n/ vhRAjRRwgEALEAK/syvHteSAp1kgA0WzMp0lTYIT1ElvKrgeDGZwJz7i4ME8yLL9DOU5ECSh AbeTGsR5ToUsrJHPcAZD4MkohdgRYQ1HRsPL9EuH0eOXvf9I80IThgyIUBOeayyDrR7mJ2pI XIkSI/ewkCzPPFF8mxOFM0IF6u9imtmi0ezjP7G5zIHAwyFSsigqMrJqamc0XXjUGCA2XguM hZMOHcdHRIs9cY/aEWMVqweZ542MfBrj4usESZQrvtGMIHEkBu2YyJrtzEDg+R0g5UZJ2aQn N7cR4iF3qEE59oeRcKwkKYUStBSdbJUnhJgrCwlL+kgtgRasZYtoeUFe6nI8vkylhn4ZyGDi 0pjEDM4t27LJZHawl86MUTORGc0PTRNu8Klm6qijTWwiqJtk6xg4U/afa47znOhMpzrXyc52 uvOd8IynPOdJz/T50YBTJJx1uIP/RtFFrnP9bOAGTak8ot0znpB72bMU+s9m1YpyCANd8grK 0OBR0TGCw9NF8wSzvoUFoLaCFq4sWk/m1al8gDqp+upk0pW69HMppY5Gwei7jTbPpi2DnlZe ijwmmrOkQA0qub5G1KIa9ahITapStXbKpTr1qVCNqlSnujWhWvWqWM2qVrfK1a569atgDatY x0rWspr1rGhNq1rXyta2uvWtcI2rFTlWTpLK1ZbQgtOtHKrX9fGJro8T6Ugd+tO76uwrN52o SAPrPgf+DaZ5Jahhp+am5Ml0sQ+KFuAey76UFmqylCniA0ELnIOqJJ+ktVBhU+s01tLLta+F 7dFk+6nV/9L2LLa9LW90W67kGJK3OcltS0OqOMJKFrgCvFpji2dZjyL3kUAyFJwWq9jnQjc0 qLVuF4t1XO1u91XeHRd4wyve0JKXeoM8L0uE+0n1otdA7sWQZNg7VvpaMr7v9SJ+5avf/fLX h/6FF4DDa9r8QtO7nUFlBGdJ4Ip10pMHRvB6K7ha+8LQcAoObny9Z5oMz2zDz8SnaFXpXg5P eMQ2BLERg6tDC+8wfnT0sGFhvFuCBXSy+VNjhWQM1BzXDzAPXqeLyyufIK9yyOtlppHpd+MF IVmg3Z1k4kKpzCXfT5ScKZGV37fXArPyY1vWnvCiTEgbN3lZ9ArzsUjGR4yp+f+b0nqzxjSZ XZ7l7L5ARvEQySnnHKrMvEMb5n44+GQbqbnOp5wQq67JYzHrOUMW9pUbv6Nnbyrykoj8cKEh VGnw4THQma7kpt18ZmRN2ooMTtRnDznqE5e6tp8uozBJiujAMarPqo11olM8a8i6b46uarQy L31YPUJy179m9bxwregyB4/MEI6w/1odHWar5dS+rLWzg/XKbWOz063VdXKPXUZqs0jYAo52 JO286P+hW9bE/u6AMR1vFb5bIst0FHzlXW9t3jvBZzM3m59WTyeiRtvaTo5B4UxWQZoS2kDC lOioSvGKW7xrmAMbuWVJ2lZu/Lpw9bi04X1XkYebxDP/phI1uZ3LAK8bz8eEucvvLOiT13zm 9M6pzdWNc5rzPOY37/kKZX4zggtd30Rn+cqP/sSkX9voTOe1znvd76jje+m4hbrVr+70rDf1 4mAPu9jHHiWs13jrUkw12j888rWD/Olup5Da4/52IdPdyVW/O5WDrve9d73vYWwv4LG758HP V+qGV0wmE99spDMekUV7vOQnT/nKW/7ymM+85jfP+c57/vOgD73oR0/60puenglfIuJOBjji /tOmnE22Tnfl55iZW3oAt1vtM1Ln2H80YijdqGa5mdHdI7ukgGXpVqbLfJUyv/mD3WBMn+3H lVrO18OvGaF2arzfi1v28ESpYvI3y1PnC7/86jv/Z4N/McReX3mG7Ojinqc55x2/4Hiq7E2h L12vzN/8LIU8zwd707N/ftN6mkR/+Zd+A4hTp/eAEBiBEjiBrEN2FniBGJiBGugk1LeBHviB IBiCFUeBjREQADs= --------------19D4692A31FC-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 19:12:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA32753; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 19:06:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 19:06:10 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 02:05:32 +0000 Message-ID: <19970609020527.AAB11117 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"z_QvU2.0.h_7.HKscp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8087 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:58 AM 6/9/97 +0000, Richard Wall wrote: >Fred wrote: > > >snip > >>>These anecdotal tales are ingrained in our urban legends and pop >>>culture, but are not scientifically verifiable. >> >>Poor science, perhaps? > >snip > >Actually good science. When hurricane Andrew swept over Miami three >years ago there was a precipitous drop in barometric pressure. >Researchers at the University of Miami School of Medicine Department of >Obstetrics and Gynecology monitored patients in Miami for premature >rupture membranes, premature labor and the number of deliveries. There >was no statistical difference with sudden decrease in barometric >pressure as compared to the controls before and after Andrew. Same for >repeated lunar studies at other institutions. The airlines would be sweating if the barometric pressure effect had been different. :-) On the other hand I spent many a full moon night as a volunteer at a local hospital Emergency Room, and I can tell you, backed by a harried E.R. staff that those were the dreaded nights. IMHO. Without that "Lunar Clock", life on Earth would be entirely different, if it existed at all. > >Horseshoe crabs were another matter. 8-} > > >RWW > Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 19:37:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA24068; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 19:34:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 19:34:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 19:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706090233.TAA14502 iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson microtronics.com.au From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: RMOD Mark I Introduction Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"V8YKj3.0.ut5.5lscp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8088 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:26 AM 6/9/97 +0930, you wrote: >Hi All, > >I have attached a Gif. > >Assume the ramp is adjusted to "Climb and Drop" conditions. > >I would like your opinion of what will happen to ball "A" and ball "B". > > >Sorry for the second send, forgot to do the attach. > >-- >Best Regards, > Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ > >Attachment Converted: D:\EARTHLNK\EUDORA\intro1.gif Hi Greg, Interesting! As ball "A" climbs the ramp, the assembly tips down on the left and ball "B", that is locked at the end mag field, falls off the base. As ball "A" exits the ramp end it gets locked at the drop point mag field ("B" ball location). Now all that is needed is to get another ball on the start of the ramp to balance it and to start the motion all over again. How do you feed at the "A" ball point when the assembly is tilted down on the left end at "B" ball location? Best Regards, Michael From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 19:52:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA07129; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 19:47:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 19:47:35 -0700 Message-ID: <339B6EF4.29E1 interlaced.net> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 22:48:20 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: radius with N gauge References: <970606132912_-228641817 emout08.mail.aol.com> <339AAE81.34C6@microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"S941n1.0.Jl1.6xscp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8089 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > I don't like short radius turns. They loose a lot of energy as > one side of the ball skids around. The tighter the radius, the worst > this gets. > > Maybe Nasa Frank can help here. > Since I'm into plumbing systems lately, I have been looking at 1.25 inch diameter "J-bend brass sink traps. These traps have an internal tube diameter a bit less than 30 mm. The trap I have has a bend radius of around 40 mm, so, the tube centerline turns 180 degrees on an 80 mm dia. turn circle. I tried a roll-thru of a 20 mm dia. steel ball and it looked "interesting". These traps are beautifully formed but the inner surface required a polish operation with a wad of steel wool and a flexible probe (finger?). The ends of the trap needs to be carefully cut off to remove the threads and flare sections to result in a nice constant dia. 180 degree bend. It looked like the 20 mm ball had a fairly consistant trajectory thru the bend so it should be feasible to set a transition joint between the N-gage track and the tube. I see no way to do a low-friction 180 with a rolling ball in a near-plane but to abandon two-point contact - which the 180 tube bend does. The roll thru the trap is probably not as good as a straight roll along good channel, but probably much better than a bent piece of N-gage. Another important point - the J-trap is much larger than the ball and avoids "pistoning" the air thru the tube. The ball trajectory thru the bend is probably complex because of the centrifugal force on the ball, but I think it can be consistant enough for end transitions. You Smoters trying to do roll-a-rounds might try this hardware - polish, polish, polish - and if it doesn't work, forget where you heard about it! Oh, BTW, I would cut the J-traps with a file corner or some kind of abrasive method to get a good edge on the thin-wall tubing. Frank Stenger (vicarious SMOT watcher) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 20:09:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA10358; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 20:07:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 20:07:11 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 22:07:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706090307.WAA02633 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: CETI Cold Fusion/Transmutation news by Mallove Resent-Message-ID: <"1RI8E1.0.mX2.UDtcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8090 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 12:01 PM 6/8/97 -0500, Akira Kawasaki wrote: >'Gene, you wrote: >>NOT use Dr. Patterson's coated-bead technology, but instead a new >>method developed by the company) has been producing continuously >>several hundred watts excess energy since last February. It is claimed >>to be completely reproducible and an instant turn-on device. It can >>produce water at boiling temperature. Don't get all lathered up just yet. I've heard a little about this device directly from Cravens and it is not yet certain that it is producing excess heat. It _appears_ to be so but, on this one, the input power measurement is complicated. They are getting some decent test equipment and should know pretty soon. Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 20:15:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA12021; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 20:14:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 20:14:24 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 20:14:18 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: TV pilot demo (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"6bDQs1.0.lx2.GKtcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8091 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: see below .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 22:52:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Thalio aol.com To: billb eskimo.com Subject: TV pilot demo Dear Bill B., I found your e-mail address on a link from Anders Mad Scientist Page. I thought you might be interested in a project I'm working on. If you are, please spread the word around. Thanks. Here's the form letter I'm sending out: crank1 (krangk) n. 4. Informal. b. An eccentric person, especially one who is unduly zealous --American Heritage Dictionary "The reasonable man tries to adapt himself to the world. The unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to himself. That is why all progress depends upon unreasonable men." --George Bernard Shaw Are you a crank? Do you know any cranks? I'm taping a demo pilot of a new TV show called "Frank's Cranks". The show celebrates the eccentric inventions and visionary ideas of the outer fringe of human intellectual exploration. The tone of the show will be light hearted, but not mocking. If you live in the Los Angeles area, I will come to you with a cameraman to make a videotape interview of you expounding your ideas, or demonstrating your gadget or invention. If you're not from the L.A. area, I would still love to see any tape you have of yourself explaining your theories, or demonstrating your creations. This project is only a demo which I'm making from my own resources, and I can't offer any monetary compensation to you. However, if a producer picks up the program, you would certainly be among the first considered for an actual on air segment. Please send contact information and/or video tapes to the following address: (with video tapes please include a signed statement to the effect that you waive any claim to compensation for the use of the tape) Frank's Cranks c/o Frank Miles 13650 Erwin St. Van Nuys, CA 91401 Or contact me by e-mail at: Thalio AOL.com Phone messages may be left at: 213-969-1484 P.S. Please don't send one of a kind, original tapes as I may not be able to return them. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 20:41:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA01481; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 20:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 20:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <339B7A91.25907606 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 07:37:53 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Re: RMOD Mark I Introduction X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <339B62BB.34E8 microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7Vo-k3.0.-M.uatcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8092 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Greg, If the ramp is fixed and separate from balance frame it is no informative than the RMOD MARK 1 rotary diagram and the animation. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 21:15:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA24741; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 21:09:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 21:09:35 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 21:09:31 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: GIFS, the Archive, Bill Beaty In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RmdVE1.0.V26.-7ucp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8093 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 8 Jun 1997, Horace Heffner wrote: > I was off of vortex for a week or so also. I've been off freenrg for a > long time. When I tried to catch up with the vortex archive it appeared > the archive was either down or way behind - probably due to all the traffic > and GIFs set through vortex. The GIFs show up in the archive as pages of > garbage. Bill Beaty may have his hands full sorting all that out, but > maybe much of the info (mid-May on) is simply lost due to the file size > being too big? Hi Horace! I just hadn't zipped the May file. The current file was june, skipping may. The archives are as-received email. The GIFs appear as MIME attachments, compressed by whatever weird scheme MIME uses. Many email programs can view them if you treat the unzipped text file as a mail folder. The email program will then properly interpret the attachments, and allow you to save them as .gif. I know that Pine does this, I haven't tried it with others. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 21:51:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA11156; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 21:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 21:40:56 -0700 (PDT) To: vortex-L eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-L eskimo.com Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 21:27:50 -0800 Subject: Rotary SMOT attemp Message-ID: <19970329.212755.8598.0.tv juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11,13,15,17-27,29-35 From: tv juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"HVoa-.0.6k2.Ibucp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8094 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Greg and other SMOT builders, I have a well behaved ramp that I think might have a chance at working in a rotary version. It uses 1 7/8 inch by 3/8 inch by 3/8 inch ceramic ( approx. 50 mm x 10 mm x 10 mm) magnets that are stacked two deep by two wide with a piece of 1/8 inch by 1/2 inch (3 mm x 13 mm)x iron strip between them. Interestingly, it seems to work better with the strip between instead of behind. The ramp is 3.5 inches (90 mm) long. The balls I use are 5/8 inch (16 mm). The track is 1/2 inch ( 13 mm) aluminum U channel. I have linked it to another track. Very touchy. Occasionally I get a roll away but not sure whether I impart a tiny bit of extra energy with my finger. This ramp is very good at dropping the ball off the end to about 1mm above level or below. It seems I might have a possibility of trying the rotary arrangement like you (Greg) posted. My idea is to build a cylinder with a hub on one end consisting of two disks with model race car ball bearings in the center of a shaft attached through center of disk to race car bearings The open end of cylinder would contain the race track with balls. The ramp and magnets would be inserted in the end. This way adjustments could be made. Does this sound reasonable as a way to recycle balls ? I thought it might be worth a try since ball falls off the ramp so well. Tim Vaughan (tv juno.com) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 22:01:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA14716; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 21:56:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 21:56:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: From: jlogajan skypoint.com (John Logajan) Subject: Re: Bad news about my rollaway test :-( To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:55:39 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <970607065705_518869090 emout07.mail.aol.com> from "JNaudin509@aol.com" at Jun 7, 97 06:57:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0U4zG1.0.qb3.1qucp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8095 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jean-Louis Naudin writes: > Today, I am not able to reproduce correctly my previous rollaway setup ( the > 5 june experiment with the SMOT v1.03 ), the only working rollaway test that > I am able to do is an N-gauge track exit 2 mm BELOW the level of the SMOT > ramp input....... Are you using "fresh" balls? There was a theory floated a few days back that perhaps the system gain its kinetic energy from the balls giving up energy of random magnetizm as the domains lined up in a lower energy state. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 22:11:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA16383; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 22:09:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 22:09:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <339B9039.5EF7 skypoint.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 00:10:17 -0500 From: John Logajan Organization: Skypoint Communications, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: CETI vs PF on patents References: <199706082303.SAA10325 dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> <339B4810.6683@concentric.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Xcs3V2.0.p_3.h_ucp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8096 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ron McFee wrote: > what little that I know of patent law is that > "reduction to practive" carries more weight than mere invention. A classic case contrary to this, though, is the Gould laser patent. He didn't file initially, thinking a reduction to practice was necessary, however he had lab notes. So years later he prevailed in court against others who had submitted reductions to practice first. Gould showed he invented a specific concept first, so the other guys were out of luck -- and had to pay Gould big bucks. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 22:11:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA32012; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 22:08:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 22:08:47 -0700 Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:08:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706090508.AAA03471 dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> From: aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki ) Subject: Re: Project IDA To: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"IzCZ91.0.6q7.V_ucp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8097 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You wrote: > >The International Defense Alliance (IDA) is using scalar field >transmitters to ward off invasion by extra-terrestials. >Although not particularly powerful these fields can readily penetrate >metals causing disruption of magnetic spin vectors, ie., magnetic >field properties and other such phenomena. >A "side effect" causes "Over-Unity" effects such as witnessed in >recent years in the P & F cells, Sonoluminescent devices, Yusmar, and >more recently SMOTs. >If this is not clear to anyone, I suggest a shot of 180 proof >"EVERCLEAR" available at your local liqour store at about $8.00/pint. Having dealt in retail, I know that is insuficient of proof and quantity to prove your valuable explanation. I would recommend (many swigs of) good old American "Wild Turkey" (flammable) to make it clear as day. The side effects will be very evident and convincing. Very fast you'll at least become a self sustaining Yusmar as you pump your guts out somewhere, see sonoluminescent sirens and red lights and end up in P&F jail cells. ) -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 22:29:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA18555; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 22:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 22:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <339B93AA.2C99 skypoint.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 00:24:58 -0500 From: John Logajan Organization: Skypoint Communications, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Moon cycles References: <199706082318.SAA28648 dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-4mJx.0.pX4.ODvcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8098 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Richard Wayne Wall wrote: > The key point is that ovulation in humans and other animals occurs > uniformly 365 days per year on this earth and is not tied to any "29 > day lunar cycle". Well I don't think anyone is suggesting that all women are synchronized in frequency and phase, so you are shooting down an argument not made. The question is whether there is a pre-historic link between the cycle and the phases of the moon. "Modern" influences, such as artifical light (from camp fires to kerosene lamps to halogen high intensity floodlamps) may well overwhelm the faint moonlight "trigger" -- just as a moth spirals into a candle flame rather than flying a straight moon reference course. The conditions that selected our fundamental genetic makeup were those influences that existed several hundred thousand years ago -- that's a long time for "retriggerable oscillators" to run amok. Then again, it may be mere coincidence -- but studying modern hospital records will be inconclusive in the negative. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 22:38:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA03267; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 22:30:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 22:30:30 -0700 Message-ID: <339B9575.1F82 skypoint.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 00:32:37 -0500 From: John Logajan Organization: Skypoint Communications, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: RMOD Mark I Introduction References: <339B62BB.34E8 microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XEozz1.0.zo.rJvcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8099 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > Assume the ramp is adjusted to "Climb and Drop" conditions. > ... what will happen to ball "A" and ball "B". "B" will be dropped to a point *lower* than the starting point, and "A" will not climb to as high an absolute height. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 23:03:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA06702; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:01:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:01:51 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 22:00:12 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"W70wf1.0.de1.Envcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8100 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 2:07 PM 6/8/97, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Horace - > > > Now *that* is an assumption! Calorimetry will tell, > > assuming a closed loop system is widely replicated. > >I think all ideas on how SMOTs work are assumptions. [snip] >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI\ I have clearly noted my assumptions, e.g. "If Hartman's device works then ...". The rest follows from logical deduction and a little ingenuity in my opinion, unless perhaps we are in the course of watching all the laws of the universe evaporate before our very eyes. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 8 23:44:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA24780; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970609063425.00668ca0 sparc1> X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 15:34:25 +0900 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Elliot Kennel Subject: re: SIMS results Resent-Message-ID: <"-XilT3.0.636.PGwcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8101 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rich Murray wrote: >>I am delighted with your post of 6/02/97 about precision SIMS and quadrupole mass spectroscopy << Actually, I don't think that the results are all that fantastic. The results mainly show three things: my carbon deposits are only carbon; low-res SIMS can be fooled by hydrides and deuteride molecules (which most people were already aware of); and also to find out if there were ways that SIMS might be spoofed by copper isotopes (I didn't find any--so for the moment Mizuno's findings concerning the copper 63/65 isotope shifts still stand). >> How much time and money does it take to do these tests?<< For high resolution SIMS, the cost can be several thousand dollars for a complete inventory of elements. That's why it isn't done more often. Our materials are being examined by Kobe Steel, not by ourselves. >>Can you examine cathodes, before and after, from Mizuno, Ohmori, Dash, and Miley to check out their claims?<< The experiment I would most like to see is to re-test an anomalous (from the standpoint of isotope shifts) cathode after annealing to see if this removes the isotope shift. At the moment, there are three hypotheses consisent with Mizuno's data, at least: a. There is a nuclear transmuation effect caused by electrolyis in Pd-D and other similar systems. b. There is an isotope separation effect caused by electrolysis in Pd-D and other similar systems. c. There is a SIMS artifact created for certain isotopes after electrolyis of Pd-D and other similar systems. A fourth hypothesis, that there have been mistakes in the analysis, can probably be applied to some of the results in the literature, though I doubt that Mizuno's is a mistake. At any rate, if annealing fails to remove the isotope shift anomaly (as measured in high resolution mode, of course), that would tend to support the transmutation hypothesis. And if the same shift is confirmed by neutron activation analysis, then I think that it would be an experimental fact. At the moment, howevever, there is no single isotope shift anomaly which has been reliably observed with both SIMS and NAA as far as I know, though there are plans underway to obtain such data in the next few months. On the other hand, if after annealing the samples and retesting, the isotope shift anomalies vanish, and if they can not be seen with NAA, then I think one ought to more strongly favor hypotheses b and c to try to figure out what is going on. >>Would SIMS itself create nuclear reactions on such spots?<< There are no known mechanisms for SIMS to create nuclear reactions. Best regards, Elliot Kennel Sapporo Japan From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 00:00:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA12889; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:59:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:59:06 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:58:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706090658.XAA05707 guilder.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szdanq blue.ucdavis.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Dan Quickert Subject: Re: Introduction to RMOD Mark I Resent-Message-ID: <"65BRe1.0.G93.vcwcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8102 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >I would like your opinion of what will happen to ball "A" and ball "B". > That depends. The diagram is a bit ambiguous. Is ball B in motion, or trapped by the end-field? Are the ramp and the ball platform one assembly balanced on the fulcrum (case 1), or is the ramp fixed and the ball platform the only moving piece (case 2)? Based on the published "Ferris wheel" diagram, I'm presuming it's case 2 we're dealing with. But just in case:-) Case (1): Assuming both balls stationary to start; further assuming that the ramp/ball/platform assembly is balanced at start: As ball A begins to move into the ramp, balance is shifted to the left. B rolls left, falling off the platform. If ball A is not yet at the balance point, the assembly will tilt to the right and the ball will have a very steep hill to climb - not good. But if ball A has passed the balance point, it will continue thru the ramp, which is now going to be horizontal; it will then pass through the end and fall onto, and probably off of, the platform. ------- Case (2): Ball A moves into the ramp, ball B forces the platform down on the left. The right side of the platform will go up; this may result in ball A getting a bit of a push into the ramp. Ball B then falls off, rolling away to the left. Platform swings back past its balance point to the right, then regains balance until ball A falls out of ramp, onto the platform. Platform then tilts left, ball A falls off and rolls away. This is a one-shot representation of the Ferris wheel arrangement. Dan From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 00:36:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA16784; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:34:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:34:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199706090734.CAA23994 dsm7.dsmnet.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Dean T. Miller" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 02:34:52 (-050 Subject: Re: progress (or not) report Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199706080622.XAA17039 guilder.ucdavis.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Resent-Message-ID: <"8_O5J.0.A64.M8xcp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8103 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dan, On Sat, 7 Jun 1997 23:22:52 -0700 (PDT) you wrote, in part: > 6) Question: I've seen mention of *plastic* N-guage track? Any specific > suggestions where that might be found? I found the metal kind but it's real > hard to deal with making vertical bends. My local model train/plane store has various shapes of styrene (I think it is) parts for building bridges and such for model train layouts. One of them is an I-beam that's almost exactly the width of N-gauge track (within fractions of a mm). -- Dean -- from Des Moines (KB0ZDF) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 00:36:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA29624; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:35:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:35:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706090734.CAA23991 dsm7.dsmnet.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Dean T. Miller" To: vortex-l eskimo.com, Rick Monteverde Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 02:34:52 (-050 Subject: Re: Snowflake Memory Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Resent-Message-ID: <"u1_Hk.0.kE7.29xcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8104 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Rick, > Mike said- > > > I heard from a reliable source (I'll see if I can find the name) > > that an anacephalic, a person born with only a brain stem, can > > function quite normally and at least one has a BSc. > > I'd *love* to see some documentation to that! I've always thought it was > one of the great urban legends. There's a reference to an article about exactly that in a psych (or neuro) journal in Michael Talbott's "Beyond the Quantum." I've got the book somewhere around here but I can't find the $%#$# thing. -- Dean -- from Des Moines (KB0ZDF) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 03:44:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA00164; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 03:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 03:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: 09 Jun 97 05:18:29 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Message-ID: <970609091829_100433.1541_BHG64-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"4UKqn2.0.U2.Rtzcp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8105 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick, > (Admit it Chris, this is making sense, and suggests design > parameters to strive for.) Maybe it would, if I understood what you say. I take a simpler view. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 03:53:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA01524; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 03:52:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 03:52:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: 09 Jun 97 05:18:34 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Message-ID: <970609091833_100433.1541_BHG64-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"pq4Ta.0.kN.R1-cp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8106 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick, > The clue "won't work with horizontal ball travel, but will work > with vertical ball travel" if true and confirmed, strongly > indicates those wheel methods won't work, and that gravity might > very well be required as the restoring force as opposed to elastic > forces or armature/ball KE. See? Saves time on dead ends and > guides us in the right direction. Which of course is perfectly valid, but has precisely nothing to do with speculating as to a source of energy - which was what I was objecting to. I repeat: it is inappropriate to speculate on a source of energy, based on the assumption that C of E applies, bedcause C of E is based on the fact that SMOT-type devices don't exist. It's a logical contradiction. Of course, it may well be that there *is* a source of energy "ccoming into" the system and eventually being dissipated in heat and noise, but I still think that the first step is to analyse the device to find the forces on the ball at every point. As to elastic forces, it's pretty difficult to simulate mechanically the accelerative force of gravity. > No, two people have; Naudin and Tammetta. They put up AVIs of > their work, and then reported difficulty reproducing and linking. OK, I missed one. But you'll now have seen the various posts reporting good results and the (mechanical and adjustment) problems people have had in maintaining those good results - these seem to me to be quite fair and reasonable explanations. > What interest do you suppose I have in screening something? I don't think you have any "interest" in that, but I think your posts look like diversions which confuse the main issue. To my mind, that issue is to replicate the basic effect and then to study exactly what the thing is doing so that we can get phenomenological rules for making better ones - and then, with its behaviour thoroughly understood, make useful devices which exploit the effect. Greg seems to have been pursuing exactly that path, with considerable claimed success. He hasn't worried too much about "the source of the energy," he hasn't got some wonderful new theory, he has been very open and helpful, and he's selling kits for toys. In fact, he sounds like someone who has read all Jed Rothwell's polemics on "inventors' disease," and he's doing *exactly* what we've been begging and pleading with people to do with their machines, cells, and processes. The only thing that I've had reservations about is his idea of approaching local universities with they toys; but I think I've maybe misread his intentions. I thought he was planning an "in-your-face" approach, or that he expected physics departments to take it seriously. In fact I think that he believes that somewhere someone will take a serious interest in investigating, and I think he's probably right - though I think that this group and its contacts would be more help. I would imagine that if Hal Puthoff had one of these gadgets working, then we would have one very serious physicist involved in studying it; and I think Barry Merriman would do that too. So let's get on with all the boring and tedious filing and cutting and polishing and adjusting - and I know you are pretty damned good at that. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 03:58:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA04575; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 03:56:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 03:56:36 -0700 Message-ID: <339BD8A9.3AFF microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 19:49:21 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RMOD Mark I, drawing 2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4V7t73.0.P71.a5-cp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8107 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: HI All, Here is the second drawing in the RMOD introduction. I have included more info than in the first. Comments please. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 03:58:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA04690; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 03:56:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 03:56:52 -0700 Message-ID: <339BDA09.73D7 microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 19:55:13 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: RMOD Mark I Introduction References: <339B62BB.34E8 microtronics.com.au> <339B9575.1F82@skypoint.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SDc6t1.0.-81.p5-cp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8108 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John Logajan wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > Assume the ramp is adjusted to "Climb and Drop" conditions. > > ... what will happen to ball "A" and ball "B". > > "B" will be dropped to a point *lower* than the starting point, Correct. > and "A" will not climb to as high an absolute height. Incorrect. > - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - Hi John, Have a look at my latest posting. The drawing has been improved. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 03:58:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA04891; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 03:57:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 03:57:16 -0700 Message-ID: <339BDAA3.24F microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 19:57:47 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: RMOD Mark I Introduction] References: <339B75F5.4FE0 ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YpwUW1.0.EC1.A6-cp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8109 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dave DeLeo wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I have attached a Gif. > > > > Assume the ramp is adjusted to "Climb and Drop" conditions. > > > > I would like your opinion of what will happen to ball "A" and ball "B". > > Greg, > > Thank you for sharing this, > > I would have to say that: > > 1. ball A would climb the ramp > 2. as A moves up the ramp the whole assembly would tilt toward ball B > 3. gravity would pull ball B free of the ramp > 4. ball A would continue up (down after the ramp tilts) the ramp and > become stuck where B was originaly > 5. have another ball feed up to where A was (via a curved stack of balls > like the animation on your homepage) and it will balance again until A2 > starts to climb........... the loop would be closed > > That's my first impression from a quick look at the drawing. I may be > missing something, its getting kind of late and I need some sleep :) > > Dave DeLeo > ddeleo ix.netcom.com > > By the way hows the patent coming.... > Must be on its way since your sharing this, otherwise your patent > attorney may take away your computer 8-) (or are your patenting the > RMOD Mark II instead?) RMOD Mark II is looking very good. Prelim tests match theory. Hi Dave, Have look at the improved drawing I just posted. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 03:59:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA05069; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 03:57:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 03:57:38 -0700 Message-ID: <339BD97B.2477 microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 19:52:51 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Introduction to RMOD Mark I References: <199706090658.XAA05707 guilder.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dNCKB1.0.zE1.V6-cp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8110 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dan Quickert wrote: > > > > >I would like your opinion of what will happen to ball "A" and ball "B". > > > > That depends. The diagram is a bit ambiguous. Is ball B in motion, or > trapped by the end-field? Motion is not applicable. Ball B is pulled against the end rail, but is free to fall vertically. > Are the ramp and the ball platform one assembly > balanced on the fulcrum (case 1), or is the ramp fixed and the ball platform > the only moving piece (case 2)? Ramp Fixed, Ball platform free to move. > Based on the published "Ferris wheel" diagram, I'm presuming it's case 2 > we're dealing with. But just in case:-) > > Case (1): Assuming both balls stationary to start; further assuming that the > ramp/ball/platform assembly is balanced at start: > > As ball A begins to move into the ramp, balance is shifted to the left. B > rolls left, falling off the platform. If ball A is not yet at the balance > point, the assembly will tilt to the right and the ball will have a very > steep hill to climb - not good. But if ball A has passed the balance point, > it will continue thru the ramp, which is now going to be horizontal; it will > then pass through the end and fall onto, and probably off of, the platform. > ------- > > Case (2): Ball A moves into the ramp, ball B forces the platform down on the > left. The right side of the platform will go up; this may result in ball A > getting a bit of a push into the ramp. Ball B then falls off, rolling away > to the left. Platform swings back past its balance point to the right, then > regains balance until ball A falls out of ramp, onto the platform. Platform > then tilts left, ball A falls off and rolls away. > > This is a one-shot representation of the Ferris wheel arrangement. > > Dan Hi Dan, Have posted a better drawing. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 05:31:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA06069; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 05:29:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 05:29:51 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:29:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970609082914_552495299 emout17.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Frank Close Reconsidering XSH? Resent-Message-ID: <"fbc7O1.0.lU1.-S_cp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8111 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Martin, What was that in your post of June 6 about renewed willingness on Frank Close's part to consider XSH experiments? Where did you hear that? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 02:34:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA01252 for billb@eskimo.com; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 02:34:58 -0700 Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 02:34:58 -0700 X-Envelope-From: fepps mail1.halcyon.com Mon Jun 9 02:34:56 1997 Received: from mail1.halcyon.com (mail1.halcyon.com [206.63.63.40]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA01221 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 02:34:55 -0700 Received: from mtv-pm0-ip2.halcyon.com by mail1.halcyon.com (5.65v3.2/1.1.10.5/10Nov96-0444PM) id AA26527; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 02:35:46 -0700 Message-Id: <9706090935.AA26527 mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Project IDA Old-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 02:36:06 -0700 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: vortex-l Status: RO X-Status: ---------- > >The International Defense Alliance (IDA) is using scalar field > >transmitters to ward off invasion by extra-terrestials. > >Although not particularly powerful these fields can readily penetrate > >metals causing disruption of magnetic spin vectors, ie., magnetic > >field properties and other such phenomena. The irony of this joke is that there is a book soon to be published called "The Day After Roswell" written by a Colonel Birce who was a former member of the National Security Council under Eisenhower. According to the book, he was the head of an Army project to secretly funnel technology derived from the Roswell crash into government and industry. This technology, according to the mainstream newspaper article I read, included "computer chips", lasers, and composite materials. They were doing this to prepare our society for what they believed was an inevitable war with "space aliens", as the article called them, in true National Enquirer fashion. The book was discussed in the mainstream paper only because Sen. Strom Thurmond wrote the preface, and then denied that he believed in the substance of the book. There is a great deal of evidence that the thesis of the book is entirely accurate. Fred From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 08:38:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA00408; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:34:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:34:46 -0700 From: HLafonte aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970609110607_134327952 emout12.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: CETI Cold Fusion/Transmutation news by Mallove Resent-Message-ID: <"jTl6M3.0.D6.LA2dp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8112 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You mean after all this time, they are just now getting decent test equipment? Butch From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 09:00:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA03930; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:58:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:58:44 -0700 Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:58:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706091558.IAA04573 sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Introduction to RMOD Mark I Resent-Message-ID: <"VYtBx.0.Kz.qW2dp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8113 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:52 PM 6/9/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote: >Dan Quickert wrote: >> >> > [snip] >> Are the ramp and the ball platform one assembly >> balanced on the fulcrum (case 1), or is the ramp fixed and the ball platform >> the only moving piece (case 2)? > >Ramp Fixed, Ball platform free to move. > >> Based on the published "Ferris wheel" diagram, I'm presuming it's case 2 >> we're dealing with. But just in case:-) >> >> Case (2): Ball A moves into the ramp, ball B forces the platform down on the >> left. The right side of the platform will go up; this may result in ball A >> getting a bit of a push into the ramp. Ball B then falls off, rolling away >> to the left. Platform swings back past its balance point to the right, then >> regains balance until ball A falls out of ramp, onto the platform. Platform >> then tilts left, ball A falls off and rolls away. >> >> This is a one-shot representation of the Ferris wheel arrangement. >> >> Dan Case (2) sounds about right for a fixed ramp condition. > >Hi Dan, > >Have posted a better drawing. > >-- >Best Regards, > Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ > Hi Greg, What do think of Rick's Case (2) description with a fixed ramp condition? Where can we find the better drawing posted? Best Regards, Michael From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 09:15:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA07016; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:11:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:11:38 -0700 From: Schaffer gav.gat.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:13:20 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"e4T9F1.0.Jj1.ti2dp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8114 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have been lurking on the discussion of Greg Watson's devices ever since he seems to have gotten OU. It is hard to mistake a ball that goes around a track for hours. I notice that no one has posted the classical force on a magnetizable sphere. Therefore, I will do that now. I will also apply it to try to explain the single smot ramp, which might help experimenters. The classical calculation cannot, of course, explain OU, because the classical equations of EM conserve energy. The classical constitutive equations (equations describing how B and H are related in a magnetizable medium) either conserve energy (even when nonlinear) or dissipate it (e.g. hysteresis). If the reported OU were of strictly magnetic origin, it might appear as 'negative hysteresis' which would be measurable by standard techniques used to characterize magnetic materials. Such measurements would be easier and faster than by ramp experiments. Furthermore, negative hysteresis energy would be easy to extract via a simple oscillating LC circuit. On the other hand, if Greg's OU involves interaction with gravity or some other force as well, then the strictly magnetic possibilities are out. The change of magnetic energy of a system with a 'soft' magnetizable sphere of volume V and linear permeability mu at a point in space where the magnetic field in the absence of the sphere was Bo is: Wmag = - fmu*V*Bo^2 /(2 muo) [SI units] (1) where muo = permeability of the surrounding space fmu = (mu - muo)/(mu + 2 muo) . In writing (1) I have taken the Wmag zero point to be the magnetic energy of the sphere at zero magnetic field. The factor fmu depends only on the ratio of mu to muo and is treated here as a constant of the material of the sphere. Note that fmu and Wmag are zero when mu = muo, i.e. when the sphere is magnetically identical to the surrounding medium. Note the negative sign; permeable materials reduce the overall magnetic energy. Also note that when mu >> muo, which is the case of interest in Greg's experiments, then fmu is very nearly unity. This also means that even if mu is nonlinear, as long as it is large the nonlinearity has little effect on the energy calculation. Wmag consists of constants times Bo^2. Therefore, the square of the local magnetic field without the sphere, Bo^2, reveals the structure of the magnetic energy. Wmag is of conservative form: given Bo as a function of position, Wmag is also a function only of position, hence it is conservative. Two approximations used to derive (1) are of consequence. One approximation that breaks down when B/(grad B) becomes comparable to the radius r of the sphere. This error is of order (r*B/(grad B))^2. It is small along most of the smot, but it can be nonnegligible near the entrance and exit. More on this later. The other approximation is that Bo is independent of the presence or absence of the sphere, i.e. the sphere does not change the field source (permanent magnet), nor does that source 'absorb' any of the field perturbations due to the sphere. This approximation is satisfied if the source is very far from the sphere. In smots it is not. The correction introduces a geometric factor that must be calculated numerically in all but the simplest of cases. Here I will apply (1) anyway, because the classical behavior is not changed in any fundamental way thereby. One can learn useful information by studying and understanding simple systems, even when they have deficiencies. According to (1), Wmag is proportional to the volume of the sphere and the magnetic energy density Bo^2 /(2 muo) [joule/m^3]. When mu > muo, the system's magnetic energy is reduced and the magnetic field attracts the sphere. When mu < muo, the sphere is diamagnetic, Wmag increases, and the sphere is repelled. The magnetic force on the sphere is Fmag = - grad Wmag ~ grad Bo^2 . (2) Gravitational energy is proportional to g, height h, mass density rho of the sphere, and its volume. Kinetic energy is also proportional to the latter two factors. Therefore, the classical dynamics of the smot is independent of the sphere radius (except for geometric corrections discused above). In order to pull the sphere up to the top of the smot ramp, Wmag must equal the gravitational potential energy plus losses. Thus, one needs Bo^2 >= 2 muo*rho*g*h/fmu. Much has been made of the 'blue hole' in Greg's Qfield numerical computations of Bo in the smot. The blue hole is a point on the smot 'horizontal' symmetry plane (plane midway through the magnets) where Bo = 0. However, if the two magnet arrays are equal and parallel, the blue holes are part of a racetrack shaped 'blue line' on the smot 'vertical' symmetry plane (vertical plane midway between the two arrays) where Bo = 0. The phrases 'null point' and 'null line' are more conventional than their 'blue' counterparts. This null is apparent in Greg's plot of Bo in his yz plane. The null line exists because the magnetic flux crossing the gap between the two arrays must eventually return; therefore, there must be a line demarcating where Bo crosses in one direction from where Bo returns in the opposite direction. When the space between the smot magnet arrays varies slightly along the ramp, or when the magnet strength varies along the array (e.g. 'rogue' smot), Bo is no longer exactly zero at the null line, because a very small fraction of the flux also returns axially, from the closely spaced exit end to the more separated entrance end. However, because this axial component of Bo is very small in all the smot geometries discussed so far, and because Wmag depends on the square of Bo, Wmag is in fact very nearly zero all around the null line in these smots. (By the way, the finite B at the 'null' line is an example of magnetic lines that do not close on themselves. Most of us learn about magnetic fields via examples that have a high degree of symmetry, so that they can be solved easily. In most symmetric situations magnetic lines close on themselves. However, in most realistic three-dimensional geometries this is not the case. The general condition is div B = 0, which means that a line neither begins nor ends.) The null line defines a local 'ridge' of local maximum magnetic energy, the magnetic energy barrier or the top of the magnetic 'wall,' around the smot on its vertical symmetry plane. It is a line of Wmag = 0. It is a ridge only because the rest of space around the smot has nonzero B and is an energy well. Also, it is important to note that the region of return flux, at both ends and above and below the smot, is also a magnetic energy well, but much shallower than the main well between the magnet arrays. We are now in a position to understand some of the single-ramp smot behavior. The exit drop has to occur before the null; otherwise the total potential energy (gravitational + Wmag) will be negative at the null, and the sphere will be reflected. If there are no losses, the sphere would just pose on top of the exit null; or if it had a bit of extra energy from the launch from outside where Bo = 0, it would get past the entrance and exit nulls, roll through the exit return flux energy well and finally roll away at a low speed corresponding to its launch energy. So, how can the sphere roll away from the exit null when the exit rail is raised slightly (~1 mm) from the entrance, and when there is at least a small loss as well? I think the answer lies in the correction to eq. (1) when the Bo gradient is very steep, which it is at both the entrance and exit nulls and, for that matter, all along the null line. Consider the situation where the center of the sphere is exactly on the null line. In the presence of a gradient, some flux is drawn into each side of the sphere where B is slightly nonzero, and although its effect on Wmag is usually very small, it can become significant when when the gradient is steep. The gradient correction reduces Wmag, i.e. makes it more negative. Thus, the magnetic energy ridge along the null line is slightly below zero when the sphere radius r is nonzero. (Remember, we take Wmag = 0 where Bo = 0, far away.) Consequently, the sphere rolls through the entrance and exit nulls without posing on top of the 'magnetic ridge' if it was launched at B = 0. Another very important point is that the gradient correction increases in magnitude with the square of the gradient. The exit gradient is a little steeper than the entrance, because the gradient is set primarily by the separation between the magnet arrays, which is smaller at the smot exit. (Smaller separation increases the gradient.) Therefore, the exit Wmag ridge is a little lower than the entrance one, and a sphere can have enough energy to traverse it even when it has not quite fallen all the way back to zero height. Thus, it is no mystery that the sphere can roll free of the null line at slightly above its starting height. Once the sphere passes the null line, it enters the exit return flux region, which is a shallow energy well. If the exit track is horizontal and higher than the launch track, then classically the sphere cannot 'roll away,' at least not by my definition, which means to roll out of the influence of the return flux. It will be trapped in the return flux energy well, where it will oscillate and eventually come to rest due to dissipation. The 'rogue' smot is fundamentally the same. Linked or cascaded smots are not much different. The Wmag barrier is always reduced slightly by the steep gradients. Because B^2 between the magnet arrays increases rapidly as the gap is decreases, just a slightly smaller gap at the exit of the second ramp suffices to draw the sphere a few mm higher if losses are avoided. Of course, none of the above explains repeated circuits around a closed loop smot for much longer than the dissipative slowdown time. Greg's Qfield computations might or might not have shown the reduction of the magnetic energy due to the steep gradients and their difference between entrance and exit. The grid Greg showed is rather coarse to catch such fine points. I don't know how Qfield calculates force or energy nor how sensitive the calculations are to the gridding. Also, I do not know how Qfield matches its rather limited computational volume to the rest of the infinite universe; the boundary conditions or algorithm used to do this will affect the quantitative results, too. Of course, Qfield must show conservation of energy to within its numerical accuracy, because it solves a conservative set of equations. If Qfield shows otherwise, the nonconservation is a measure of its numerical error, not new physics. Michael J. Schaffer General Atomics, PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA Tel: 619-455-2841 Fax: 619-455-4156 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 09:56:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA17162; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:44:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:44:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:41:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706091641.LAA23385 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"Gthg23.0.3C4.GB3dp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8115 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 09:13 6/9/97 -0800, Schaffer gav.gat.com wrote: >Of course, Qfield must show >conservation of energy to within its numerical accuracy, because it solves >a conservative set of equations. If Qfield shows otherwise, the >nonconservation is a measure of its numerical error, not new physics. Agreed. Anyone out there still think you can calculate an o-u result using existing physics? Scott From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 10:03:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA15431; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:01:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:01:04 -0700 Message-ID: <339C36F4.6E8C interlaced.net> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 13:01:40 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jzFyD2.0._m3.FR3dp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8116 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Schaffer gav.gat.com wrote: > (snip good stuff on magnetic energy) Gee, Michael, why weren't you around about 38 years ago when I really needed you in my "Electricity and Magnetism" course? If you keep sending these neat posts, I'll have to transfer my physics book to a loose-leaf binder so I can add your expansion notes. Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 10:38:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA21889; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:36:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:36:23 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 07:35:05 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"NUSDx.0.rL5.Ly3dp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8118 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Schaffer wrote: [snip] > Of course, Qfield must show conservation of energy to within > its numerical accuracy, because it solves a conservative set of > equations. If Qfield shows otherwise, the nonconservation is a > measure of its numerical error, not new physics. Wouldn't it be funny if an artifact of computer simulation has led Greg and (eventually?) the rest of us to something new in physics which appears *exactly* where the artifact says it would? Art(ifact) imitating life? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 10:53:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA26453; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:25:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:25:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970609091833_100433.1541_BHG64-2 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 07:21:17 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Easy rogue SMOT??!! Resent-Message-ID: <"EPRnW.0.ET6.To3dp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8117 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris - > I repeat: it is inappropriate to speculate on a source of energy, > based on the assumption that C of E applies, bedcause C of E is > based on the fact that SMOT-type devices don't exist. Hmm. Well, if an alteration in the effect of gravity on the ball was the cause, then you could only have designs that move the ball in the vertical plane, which is a major design feature to know about. That's one thing. The other is the phenomena of continuous nose-to-tail linking, which seems to be a no-no for some reason. It could be just that the linking can't be so tight - as Greg's initial curved-ramp device suggests. Looser linking looks like it is equivalent to a collection of tighter linked ramps and one big gap in the form of the rollback track. Honest, I don't care so much about the energy source right now other than for how it *acts* on the systems, whether with C of E or not, so those of us who like to design things can move in directions which will take advantage of this energy. > [big snip] > [...] > So let's get on with all the boring and tedious filing and cutting > and polishing and adjusting - and I know you are pretty damned > good at that. Ok. :) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 12:01:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA14955; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:44:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 18:42:01 +0000 Message-ID: <19970609184159.AAA8936 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"vvjiH2.0.bf3.mx4dp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8119 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:35 PM 6/9/97 +0000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Michael Schaffer wrote: > >[snip] > > > Of course, Qfield must show conservation of energy to within > > its numerical accuracy, because it solves a conservative set of > > equations. If Qfield shows otherwise, the nonconservation is a > > measure of its numerical error, not new physics. > >Wouldn't it be funny if an artifact of computer simulation has led Greg and >(eventually?) the rest of us to something new in physics which appears >*exactly* where the artifact says it would? > >Art(ifact) imitating life? > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > I think the "artifact-(s)" if not the 1/2 gauss geomagnetic field is in the background electromagnetic waves, (or both). The energy flow AT ANY FREQUENCY is: E^2/(e/u)^1/2 watts/meter^2 or in vacuum E^2/377. E is volts/meter and 377 is the impedance of space 377 ohms. 0.05 volts/meter is a pretty powerful radio signal,but, the 50-60 hertz from the wiring in a building or power lines can exceed this. The energy density, watts/meter^3 from the E field is e*E^2/2 joule/meter^3 from the H field u*H^2/2 watts/meter^3 = u[(e/u)^1/2]^2/2 = e*E^2/2. With all of the "background" electromagnetic energy floating around with a constant of (x) watts/meter^2/hertz if this effects the ball at the "null point" enough to supply the keep-going energy, "free energy" but not perpetual motion per se, and no "new physics". :-) The EM penetration into the ball the equivalent depth of penetration; D, to where the current falls off to 1/2 its vacuum value = [1/(pi)*f*u*(rho)]^1/2 where f is frequency hertz, u is the permeability of the ball, and (rho) is the conductivity of the ball, mhos/meter. I think that when one gets through wading through this the energy source for the "roll" will be explained. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 14:06:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA10298; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 14:04:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 14:04:05 -0700 Message-ID: <339C6F04.3993 microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:30:52 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: RMOD Mark I, drawing 2] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------230376F63699" Resent-Message-ID: <"X7tsD2.0.mW2.3_6dp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8120 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------230376F63699 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry, -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ --------------230376F63699 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <339BD8A9.3AFF microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 19:49:21 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RMOD Mark I, drawing 2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI All, Here is the second drawing in the RMOD introduction. I have included more info than in the first. Comments please. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ --------------230376F63699 Content-Type: image/gif; name="intro2.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="intro2.gif" R0lGODlh9AFeAfcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBPz8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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PevAjeevB2R/ZHNudHtYP7qEZ+OIE0i/+7J0L5VXrjO0sjh/obh/kUiLHvi5QpyWnAhTtdi9 hUjCqKhSBIy1ULi9GOq3okt/JWU+MwVvtAi2VGzF9UvC/PJXYfugBwyjKdmnL6yjHzzHdnzH eJzHerzHfOxyB/vHgBzIgjzIhEzAhXzIiJzIihy8yFATo4z8yJAcyZJcyH1cyZZ8yZicyZq8 yQEBADs= --------------230376F63699-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 14:47:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA21712; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 14:43:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 14:43:04 -0700 Date: 09 Jun 97 17:36:13 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Message-ID: <970609213613_76016.2701_JHC121-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"nTT_V.0.AJ5.cZ7dp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8121 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gnorts Vorts, If you're looking for a "New Physics" explanation of ou in the SMOT you'd do well to read Bill Fogal's description of his transistor -- especially Tom Bearden's footnotes (which take more space than the main body). Bill says that it's all in Maxwell's *original* equations: >>One must consider the "imperfections" in our present "smoothed" theoretical models. In attempting to explain the unorthodox functioning of the Fogal semiconductor, we are invoking phenomenology from what would be a higher topological model, or a model which is a superset of the accepted models. It follows that, in the higher topology, many things will become possible that were not possible in the basic "smoothed" model of lower topology. This is particularly true in electromagnetics, where Maxwell's 20 quaternion equations in 20 unknowns were arbitrarily reduced __ primarily by Heaviside and Hertz __ to a vector set of some four equations (variables separated) or two equations (potential form, variables not separated). In reducing the topology so severely, the present EM model is only a small subset of nature's EM. Further, suppose one performs an EM analysis of a circuit in a higher topology algebra __ e.g., quaternion algebra, which has a higher topology than tensors. We will then find many functions that circuits actually perform, which will not show in even the most sophisticated tensor analysis.<< He presents experimental evidence of this "higher topology" with a mind-boggling experiment using the Fogal device: >>A preliminary test was constructed in Huntsville, Alabama in May of 1996 to determine if video information could be infolded within a DC voltage potential and transmitted across a wired medium. Live video information at 30 frames per second was processed and converted by full wave rectification into a DC potential at a voltage of 1.6 V DC and connected to a twisted pair wire medium of 2,000 feet in length. As a voltage, the 5 MHz video information rectified to DC potential had no modulation or AC signal present that could be detected by sensitive signal processing equipment. The analog oscilloscopes that were used to monitor the transmission could only see the DC voltage flat line, although the best digital storage scope could see very weak signal residues because of slightly less than 100% filtering. I later performed additional tests with increased filtering, so that the residues could not be seen. These tests were constructed to see if video information could be "infolded" into an audio carrier and transmitted across an ELF frequency transmission source for communication with submarines, or down a 2,000 ft twisted wire pair. The Charged Barrier device was able to process the hidden video, due to the ability of the device to sense the infolded AC electromagnetic wave information hidden inside the rectified DC voltage, sensed as a disruption to the internal DC electromagnetic field of the Charged Barrier device. Using the Fogal semiconductor, a good video image was shown on the monitor at the end of the wired medium. The Huntsville test was considered encouraging. As stated, I have since repeated the test with a better buildup, to eliminate the very weak signal residues, and the effects are real and replicable. Use of the "infolded" EM waves in an ELF carrier for video frequency signaling is real.<< In the footnotes, Bearden speculates on how these theories explain the ou performance of the Patterson Cell. Fascinating stuff. Could it really be true that electrodynamics has stumbled many years because of the inability of Heaviside to perform (20 x 20) matrix operations? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 15:37:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA00124; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:17:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:17:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: 09 Jun 97 18:11:06 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Message-ID: <970609221106_100433.1541_BHG95-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"shVtt2.0.fK7.R38dp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8123 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Mike, > Thus, it is no mystery that the sphere can roll free of the null > line at slightly above its starting height. I can see that, except that there is the question of the losses it incurs in transit, especially if it traverses a series of ramps. Problem here being that it's pretty difficult to quantify either the initial mag PE of the ball, or the losses. Watching it traverse multiple ramps, the *feeling* you get is that the losses are greater than any initial mag PE (because the latter is so tiny that you almost have to help the thing start) but I can see that this is hardly proof of anything. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 15:41:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA00100; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: 09 Jun 97 18:11:09 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Message-ID: <970609221108_100433.1541_BHG95-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"wvrrc3.0.aK7.R38dp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8122 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Frederick, > I think the "artifact-(s)" if not the 1/2 gauss geomagnetic field > is in the background electromagnetic waves, (or both). Are you suggesting that you can get mech power direct from the earth's magnetic field, in a device of this size? And I for one would be marvellously impressed if tapping local radio signals or house power lines could do this trick. We have to ask the same question of such proposals as we ask about the "over unity" behaviour of the teh SMOT: if such things are practical with just a few magnets and a ball-bearing, why has nobody demonstrated them before? A radio/mains-tapper machine which went clickety-click as the ball rolled around and around would indeed make a wonderful toy! So, where are they? Aren't you proposing exciting new physics and then dismissing that as trivial? All the same, I wonder if Greg has considered surrounding his devices with some sheet iron? Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 16:43:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA14692; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 16:38:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 16:38:04 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <339C93D2.CA0 math.ucla.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 16:37:54 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT References: <970609213613_76016.2701_JHC121-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JCiCn1.0.Qb3.RF9dp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8124 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Terry Blanton wrote: > > Could it really be true that electrodynamics has stumbled > many years because of the inability of Heaviside to > perform (20 x 20) matrix operations? > No. In fact you have it backwards. Electrodynamics has not stumbled at all. It (and its quantum form, QED) are the most succesful theories ever devised and tested by man. Beyond that, I seriously doubt that anything useful was taken out of Maxwell's original electrodynamics. Maxwell was the premiere physicist of his century---no one ignored his theories, and certainly no one would have followed Heaviside over Maxwell for arbitrary reasons. (Esp. since Heaviside was something of an obnoxious fellow). -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 16:50:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA21440; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 16:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 16:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <339C9481.6FBF math.ucla.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 16:40:49 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT References: <970609221106_100433.1541_BHG95-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"v2L591.0.uE5.3J9dp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8125 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > Watching it traverse > multiple ramps, the *feeling* you get is that the losses are greater > than any initial mag PE (because ... you almost > have to help the thing start) This phenomena is known as acceleration. v = a*t, so velocity starts from 0. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 18:49:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA23131 for billb@eskimo.com; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:52:06 -0700 Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:52:06 -0700 X-Envelope-From: herman antioch-college.edu Mon Jun 9 17:40:36 1997 Received: from antioch-college.edu (college.antioch-college.edu [192.131.123.11]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA22540 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:39:55 -0700 Received: by antioch-college.edu (SMI-8.6/1.63) id UAA23699; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 20:35:45 -0400 Old-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 20:35:44 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Say What ??? In-Reply-To: <970609213613_76016.2701_JHC121-1 CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: /usr/lib/sendmail vortex-l-dist eskimo.com failed X-Envelope-To: vortex-l Status: RO X-Status: Dear Terry, Can you please give us details on the measurement of: > ............> >>A preliminary test was constructed in Huntsville, Alabama in May of 1996 to > determine if video information could be infolded within a DC voltage potential > and transmitted across a wired medium. Live video information at 30 frames per > second was processed and converted by full wave rectification into a DC > potential at a voltage of 1.6 V DC and connected to a twisted pair wire medium > of 2,000 feet in length. As a voltage, the 5 MHz video information rectified > to DC potential had no modulation or AC signal present that could be detected by *********> ?? sensitive signal processing equipment. ????? The analog oscilloscopes that were used > to monitor the transmission could only see the DC voltage flat line, although > the best digital storage scope could see very weak signal residues because of > slightly less than 100% filtering. Say WHAT? If you want to see video ... did you low pass filter it??? I later performed additional tests with > increased filtering, so that the residues could not be seen. ????? What kind of filters, what corners, orders, pole/pole pairs ... etc.... These tests were > constructed to see if video information could be "infolded" into an audio > carrier and transmitted across an ELF frequency transmission source for > communication with submarines, or down a 2,000 ft twisted wire pair. The > Charged Barrier device was able to process the hidden video, due to the ability > of the device to sense the infolded AC electromagnetic wave information hidden > inside the rectified DC voltage, sensed as a disruption to the internal DC > electromagnetic field of the Charged Barrier device. Using the Fogal > semiconductor, a good video image was shown on the monitor at the end of the > wired medium. Sounds like current loop stuff..... The Huntsville test was considered encouraging. As stated, I > have since repeated the test with a better buildup, to eliminate the very weak > signal residues, and the effects are real and replicable. Use of the "infolded" > EM waves in an ELF carrier for video frequency signaling is real.<< > > In the footnotes, Bearden speculates on how these theories explain the ou > performance of the Patterson Cell. Fascinating stuff. > > Could it really be true that electrodynamics has stumbled many years because of > the inability of Heaviside to perform (20 x 20) matrix operations? > > Terry > > JHS From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 19:36:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA12077; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:29:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:29:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <339CBBF2.160D interlaced.net> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 22:29:06 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson microtronics.com.au CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: RMOD Mark I, drawing 2] References: <339C6F04.3993 microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IWuAk3.0.Xy2.rlBdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8128 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > HI All, > > Here is the second drawing in the RMOD introduction. > > I have included more info than in the first. > > Comments please. > Hi, Greg. It would seem that as ball A loads into the ramp, ball B *might* drop down with the pivot *if* the upward lift of the exit-end magnets let it go. If the downward drop of B dumps B into a circular magazine, How do you load a new ball into position A? Will the ramp tilt down on the right enough to load an A-ball into the entrance bucket? If so, it would seem there needs to be a third ball in transit in the ramp to do the lift of A into injection position. Maybe that's it? When B drops the pivot, A is in transit in the ramp. The pendulum action of the pivot would then need to swing down low enough so a new ball A could load from the magazine. Then, the old A ball reaches the ramp exit and drops - bringing the new ball A into injection position. It seems that the phasing of the ball movements would be critical in this particular day dream. If anyone knows what I'm talking about - please explain it to me! Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 20:11:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA17268; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:55:42 -0700 (PDT) From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:53:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970609225345_2088215595 emout11.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com, marc.g.millis@lerc.nasa.gov Subject: get real folks..Berry Merryman to Resent-Message-ID: <"zJYpA1.0.hD4.c8Cdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8129 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The SMOT will never work. The new technologies revolve around electron condensations. There are no condensations in the SMOT. Puthoff and Shoulders were the first to discover the condensations. I was the second and develped a lot of the theory. Now, Noever at Marshall has it nailed it flat. He got it right and did better than I, if I must say so myself. Electron condensation cause a downshifting of the frequencies. That's why superfluid helium exhibits macroscopic rotational states in a small glass. The down shifting "softenes up's the nucleus". That's the reason Miley's swimming electron clusters do their magic in the CETI cell. Kucherov and O'm Bochris have found clusters at the dendrites in the metal structure of the electrodes. Potapov and Griggs produce condensations through mechanical shock. The CASE is CLOSED. It's time to get on with it! Frank Znidarsic fznidarsic aol.com 481 Boyer St. http://members.aol.com/FZNIDARSIC/index.html Johnstown, Pa. 15906 Automatic links: Home_Page Send_E-mail From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 20:25:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA26514; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 18:18:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 18:18:09 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 01:17:29 +0000 Message-ID: <19970610011727.AAA29070 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"p6Sg4.0.CU6.FjAdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8127 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:11 PM 6/9/97 +0000, Chris wrote: >Frederick, > > > I think the "artifact-(s)" if not the 1/2 gauss geomagnetic field > > is in the background electromagnetic waves, (or both). > >Are you suggesting that you can get mech power direct from the earth's >magnetic field, in a device of this size? I'll believe in minute fluctuations of the geomagnetic field from "gurgles" in the bowels of the Earth causing magnetic changes on the ball surface, however slight, before I buy into perpetual motion or ZPE. But, I certainly prefer the latter. :-) Remember, Chris, the ferromagnetic permeability of the ball is an amplifier of magnetic intensity, and you are dealing with an effect that is most likely operating in the microwatt (or less) energy level. > >And I for one would be marvellously impressed if tapping local radio >signals or house power lines could do this trick. Aw,come on! A few cm of wire and a crystal diode with or without a preamplifier can bring in the low frequency radio broadcasts from all over the globe (including the antipodes)and one helluva buzz from your house wiring and the lamp cord next to your SMOT. :-) As stated the power flow is E^2*377 watts/(unit area)^2. Number crunching for say 0.1 volt/meter (0.001 volt/centimeter) for a ball showing a cm^2 of surface = (1E-6)*377 = 377 microwatts impinging on the ball. Enough to do energy-magnetic hysteresis things on the surface while the ball is in the "blue hole" to keep things going. Take a look at the BH effects of iron at low field intensities. Then see what the Em (H currents) set up at 50 or 60 hertz on the outer millimeter of the ball (where a goodly portion of the mass is concentrated) can do. :-) > >We have to ask the same question of such proposals as we ask about the >"over unity" behaviour of the teh SMOT: if such things are practical >with just a few magnets and a ball-bearing, why has nobody demonstrated >them before? A radio/mains-tapper machine which went clickety-click as >the ball rolled around and around would indeed make a wonderful toy! >So, where are they? Aren't you proposing exciting new physics and >then dismissing that as trivial? You can wind a Newman-sized coil and suck "free" power from the power company (ahead of your meter) if you want to end up in "Old Bailey". :-) > >All the same, I wonder if Greg has considered surrounding his devices >with some sheet iron? That would be the prudent thing to do, wouldn't it? > >Chris > Best Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 21:10:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA22297; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 21:08:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 21:08:46 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 20:57:09 -0800 Subject: Re: get real folks..Pecking Order Message-ID: <19970330.205711.6686.2.tv juno.com> References: <970609225345_2088215595 emout11.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-17 From: tv juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"v-TLo.0.JS5.EDDdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8130 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:53:46 -0400 (EDT) FZNIDARSIC aol.com writes: >The SMOT will never work. The new technologies revolve around >electron condensations. There are no condensations in the SMOT......... >Frank Znidarsic fznidarsic aol.com Hot fusion people peck on cold fusion people. Cold fusion people peck on magnet motor people. I guess I am at the bottom of the pecking order ! At least I am among friends. Someday SMOT based technology will rule !!! Tim Vaughan ( tv juno.com ) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 21:22:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA24700; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 21:20:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 21:20:05 -0700 Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 21:19:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Barry Merriman Message-Id: <199706100419.VAA29939 moebius.math.ucla.edu> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: get real folks..Pecking Order Resent-Message-ID: <"rgrWR1.0.s16.qNDdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8131 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Tim Vaughan wrote: >Someday SMOT based technology will rule ! First it has to roll. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 21:35:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA26093; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 21:31:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 21:31:39 -0700 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:27:23 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970610123142.2367740a po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8 po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Vortex From: Mpower Subject: Hydrogen Beer Cc: caw pacific.net.sg Resent-Message-ID: <"xpeig2.0.YN6.gYDdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8132 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Subject: CHZ: flammable suds (move over, tamagochi) > >>TOKYO (AP) -- Here in the chic pubs of the Aoyama district, the latest fad >inspired by beer makers struggling through a sluggish economy is the flammable >suds of the new Hydrogen Beer. The latest craze among the environmentally >conscious crowd of twentysomethings, the "Suiso" beer made by the Asaka Beer >Corporation has been extremely popular at karaoke sing-along bars and >discotheques. > >>Hydrogen, like helium, is a gas lighter than air. Because hydrogen molecules >are lighter than air, sound waves are transmitted more rapidly; individuals >whose lungs are filled with the nontoxic gas can speak with an >uncharacteristically high voice. > >Exploiting this quirk of physics, chic urbanites can now sing soprano parts on >karaoke sing-along machines after consuming a big gulp of Suiso beer. > >The drink comes in a transparent hexagonal bottle imported from the maker of >the new American drink "Zima," according to Hideki Saito, marketing director >of Asaka Beer Corp. While the bottles are imported from Tennessee, the labels >are made with a 100% biodegradable polymer. The bottle caps are equipped with >a safety valve to prevent excess build-up of pressure in high temperatures. > >The flammable nature of hydrogen has also become another selling point, even >though Asaka has not acknowledged that this was a deliberate marketing ploy. >It has inspired a new fashion of blowing flames from one's mouth using a >cigarette as an ignition source. Many new karaoke videos feature singers >shooting blue flames in slow motion, while flame contests took place in pubs >everywhere in Tokyo on New Year's eve. > >So far, Asaka beer has insisted that the quantities of hydrogen used in the >drinks is too low to create potential for bodily harm. In the factory, the >carbon dioxide that is dissolved in the beer is partially extracted and >replaced with hydrogen gas. Mr. Saito maintained that the remaining carbon >dioxide mixed with hydrogen prevents the rate of combustion from increasing >dramatically. Carbon dioxide is a nonflammable gas that is naturally contained >in the exhaled breath of humans. > >However, the company has hesitated from marketing the product in the US due to >legal complications. > >Each bottle of Suiso beer sells for approximately 1,200 yen, or eleven US >dollars. The bottles are packed in special crates lined with concrete to >prevent chain explosions in the event of a fire. > ********************************************************** * http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 ******** ********************************************************** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 22:47:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA03289; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:45:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:45:46 -0700 Date: 10 Jun 97 01:41:18 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Message-ID: <970610054117_100433.1541_BHG61-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"yj0Ax2.0.5p.9eEdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8137 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Frederick, > Remember, Chris, the ferromagnetic permeability of the ball is an > amplifier of magnetic intensity, and you are dealing with an > effect that is most likely operating in the microwatt (or less) > energy level. No, this effect is at least in the tens of milliwatts. > Aw,come on! A few cm of wire and a crystal diode with or without a > preamplifier can bring in the low frequency radio broadcasts from > all over the globe (including the antipodes)and one helluva buzz > from your house wiring and the lamp cord next to your SMOT. :-) Yes, and you can light an LED with it using only a metre of two of antenna. But that really is microwatts, and this effect just plain is not that tiny. > You can wind a Newman-sized coil and suck "free" power from the > power company (ahead of your meter) if you want to end up in "Old > Bailey". :-) Yes, I know. But that doesn't answer the question of how you do it with a gadget some tens of cm long, using a ball bearing and a few magnets, does it? Of COURSE an iron sheet surrounding the thing would be an ideal test of your hypothesis. At least it is testable, I'll give you that! Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 22:47:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA03367; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:45:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:45:52 -0700 Date: 10 Jun 97 01:41:21 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: get real folks..Pecking Order Message-ID: <970610054120_100433.1541_BHG61-4 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"oY9ur.0.Mq.EeEdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8138 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Tim, > Cold fusion people peck on magnet motor people. No, we don't. Our problem has been that nobody has one to show. If that ever changes, we'll take it very seriously. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 22:50:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA11499; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:46:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:46:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: 10 Jun 97 01:41:15 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Message-ID: <970610054115_100433.1541_BHG61-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"YgpGA1.0.Qp2.xeEdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8139 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry, > This phenomena is known as acceleration. v = a*t, so velocity > starts from 0. Yes, I'm familiar with this phenomenom. And initial acceleration gives an indication of the initial potential energy. It's the fact that the initial acceleration is so low that suggests to me a very low initial potential energy. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 22:50:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA02390; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:42:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:42:58 -0700 Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706100542.WAA00709 iceland.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: [Fwd: RMOD Mark I, drawing 2] Resent-Message-ID: <"koVcs2.0.Gb.YbEdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8135 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:57 PM 6/9/97 -0500, John Logajan wrote: >Michael Randall wrote: >> What is the purpose for the Moveable Ball Support end supports? How does >> ball "B" exit with the end support blocking its downward path toward the >> left? Does it exit the Support in another direction? > >I think they must be fixed guides that stay attached to the upper portion. > Attached to the fixed ramp portion? And for what purpose? Still confused. Michael From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 22:51:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA03133; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:45:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:45:18 -0700 Date: 10 Jun 97 01:41:19 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: get real folks..Berry Merryman to Message-ID: <970610054119_100433.1541_BHG61-3 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"VMbbi3.0.sm.jdEdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8136 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Frank, > The SMOT will never work. The new technologies revolve around > electron condensations. There are no condensations in the SMOT. Great. That means I can stop playing with it. Thanks for the help. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 9 23:05:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA14469; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:03:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706100603.XAA11044 guilder.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szdanq blue.ucdavis.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Dan Quickert Subject: Re: [Fwd: RMOD Mark I, drawing 2] Resent-Message-ID: <"vN4IO.0.yX3.KvEdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8140 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > What is the purpose for the Moveable Ball Support end supports? How does > ball "B" exit with the end support blocking its downward path toward the > left? Does it exit the Support in another direction? Yeah, the latest drawing is a little more clear in some respects but those end pieces pose a problem? As it's drawn, looks like ball A gets sucked into the ramp, B drops. Ball support rising on the right possibly gives A a push into the ramp (depending on relative timing bewteen A's travel and B's drop). Then A travels up the ramp, drops off the end. Because ball B is restrained from rolling away in this drawing by the end piece, ball A lands on it and either bounces away or if not too energetic, sticks to it (because A's still a bit in the ramp's mag field). That's a bit messy at the end. It surely can't be intended that ball B goes nowhere? Dan From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 01:47:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA29028; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 01:46:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 01:46:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970609184159.AAA8936 LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:44:17 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"imMZb.0.T57.THHdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8141 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick - > I think that when one gets through wading > through this the energy source > for the "roll" will be explained. I doubt it, the SMOTs are too lossy. If they really work, we'll see. Shield 'em 'n roll 'em. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 02:40:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA01747; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 02:38:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 02:38:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:37:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706100937.EAA00611 dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> From: aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki ) Subject: Rifex units vs Mallove's ANS brief report To: vortex-l eskimo.com Cc: little eden.com Resent-Message-ID: <"QsedO1.0.9R.i2Idp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8142 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: June 10, 1997 Just got to wondering about the millions (what if) of RIFEX units sold by CETI to individuals and laboratories recently. Under their agreement to share technologies (or some such terms), were the purchasers informed shortly after the getting the kits that bead technology was no longer being used to achieve excess energy or remediation? Or that this was happening even before the kits were sold? Or that kit upgrades would be forthcoming? -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 04:47:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA29474; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:45:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:45:49 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:45:13 +0000 Message-ID: <19970610114511.AAA17515 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"lpBdE1.0.SC7.ivJdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8143 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:41 AM 6/10/97 +0000, Chris wrote: >Frederick, > >No, this effect is at least in the tens of milliwatts. > >Of COURSE an iron sheet surrounding the thing would be an ideal test of >your hypothesis. At least it is testable, I'll give you that! > >Chris > Delving into magnetic cooling effects (of which I know less than nothing about) suggests energy exchange with magnetic fields, it may be possible that EM fields are replenishing the magnets and the ball. This would make the iron shielding test, the order of the day. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 05:59:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA19899; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 05:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 05:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: 10 Jun 97 08:53:36 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Message-ID: <970610125336_100433.1541_BHG109-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"BpVDH2.0.qs4.8xKdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8144 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Frederick, > Delving into magnetic cooling effects (of which I know less than > nothing about) suggests energy exchange with magnetic fields, it > may be possible that EM fields are replenishing the magnets and > the ball. Well ... maybe. I do get the vague impression that the effect is temperature-sensitive, but I've not really looked at that. Since I know of no mechanism whereby "useful" energy can be coming into the device, then the only "normal" energy mechanism to explain rollaway is the initial magnetic PE. The argument, which I certainly have some sympathy with, is that the ball's up-and-down motion is in fact a very gentle continous slope, with the two forces (gravity and magnetic attraction) combining to make the ramps behave like that; and the final exit of the ball to an apparently higher potential (and kinetic) energy is an illusion. The argument against is based on the high losses which are very apparent to anyone playing with the thing. The only way to settle the two is to close the loop and see if it keeps running. By the way, if it succeeds in doing that, I bet it will stop after a few circuits, if only because it is very difficult to keep the tracks and ball clean and rolling smoothly. I would expect that a better device could be made with brass channel, or (better) two sheets of brass shaped into the ramp profiles. It is certainly disappointing that no-one but Greg has yet succeeded in closing the loop (or reporting that they have). But there is a very wide parameter space, and I don't know how many people are trying seriously. I look forward to Greg's sending out his kits. By the way, you said earlier: I'll believe in minute fluctuations of the geomagnetic field from "gurgles" in the bowels of the Earth causing magnetic changes on the ball surface, however slight, before I buy into perpetual motion or ZPE. But, I certainly prefer the latter. :-) The rule is that you are supposed to believe only in what the facts force you to believe. I see no essential need to believe in gurgles, so I won't believe in them. As yet, I don't "believe" the SMOT closes the loop. Even so, I'd certainly believe it if and when I do. Then would come a search for explanations - including gurgles, if such can be proven to exist... > This would make the iron shielding test, the order of the day. That, among quite a few other tests! Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 06:33:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA26275; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: 10 Jun 97 09:25:09 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: get real folks..Berry Merryman to Message-ID: <970610132508_76016.2701_JHC67-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"voztG3.0.TQ6.wOLdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8145 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frank Z. said: >>Now, Noever at Marshall has it nailed it flat.<< Frank, do you know if Dr. Ning Li is still on the project? Did you speak to her? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 06:39:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA27648; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:35:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:35:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:34:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706101334.IAA02443 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Rifex units vs Mallove's ANS brief report Resent-Message-ID: <"KvVSg.0.vl6.EWLdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8146 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 04:37 6/10/97 -0500, Akira Kawasaki wrote: >Under their agreement to share technologies (or some such terms), were >the purchasers informed shortly after the getting the kits that bead >technology was no longer being used to achieve excess energy or >remediation? Or that this was happening even before the kits were sold? >Or that kit upgrades would be forthcoming? I think the departure from beads is relatively new and unexpected. The kit was always represented as a transmutation experiment...not a heat experiment. They have talked about providing a "heat kit"...no promises yet. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 06:46:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA29092; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:41:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:41:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: 10 Jun 97 09:38:31 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: vortex-l Subject: China and anti gravity Message-ID: <970610133830_76016.2701_JHC23-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"R-4LS1.0.S67.YcLdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8147 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gnorts Vorts, I thought some of you might be interested in this message which was posted on my CompuServe forum. Terry ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: rich.boylan 24stex.com Organization: 24th Street Exchange Date: Sun, 08 Jun 97 09:59:17 -0800 Subject: The China Card To: skywatch mail.phoenix.net A Washington, DC-area informant who has been quite reliable has passed on information that China now has acquired antigravity technology, which the U.S. has had and applied to successfully-flying aerospace vehicles since at least 1989. The China development has implications for the public acknowledgement of UFO reality by the U.S. Government. The connection is thus. Within the highest levels of military and intelligence leadership are ultra-conservative cliques of Generals and Intelligence officials, who are still virulently fearful of Communist takeover, and who are reactionary fundamentalist religionists. They view China's advances in research and development to the point of antigravity-technology competency as representing a clear and present danger to U.S. militarty hegemony in the world. Further, they fear that recent revelations of Chinese goverment attempts to secretly make contributions to American political campaigns represents an attempt to exercise an eventual Communist takeover of America. These right-wing Generals and Intelligence officials thus seek to block any public acknowledgement by the U.S. government of UFO reality, because world acknowledgement of extraterrestrial visitation and antigravity technology (UFOs) would permit China to openly display its antigravity craft. Thus, China would be seen by impressionable countries as an alternative super-power to cozy up to. And for that reason the military and intelligence right wing opposes revealing UFO reality. Welcome to the Byzantine world of Washington politics, where the right of the public to free and well-informed flow of information comes in last. Richard Boylan, Ph.D. Skywatch International Advisor Richard Boylan, Ph.D. 2826 O Street, Suite 2, Sacramento, CA 95816, USA. (916) 455-0120 E-mail: rich.boylan 24stex.com ; Primary website: www.ufonetwork.com/boylan/ Author of: Close Extraterrestrial Encounters, Labored Journey To The Stars and Project Epiphany. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 07:04:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA02546; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:59:20 -0700 (PDT) From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:57:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970610095757_-1396677043 emout03.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: get real folks..Berry Merryman to Resent-Message-ID: <"74WJx1.0.gd.rsLdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8148 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I didn't speak with here but they are all working together. I called Miley and strongly suggested that he endorse Noever's work. When Miley does this many other people are going to go down in flames. I never felt more strongly about something in my life. Frank Znidarsic From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 07:07:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA02606; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:54:02 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970610215826.2bef5e44 po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8 po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mpower Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"TPtGU1.0.ce.3tLdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8149 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick J. Sparber posted the following (edited for brevity) at 11:45 1997.06.10 +0000: >At 05:41 AM 6/10/97 +0000, Chris wrote: >>Frederick, >> >Delving into magnetic cooling effects ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ok. what's that got to do with SMOT ? How would it apply ? MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM * http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 (-latest update: 1997.06.10.12:30-) * **************************************************************************** ********************* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 07:16:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA02961; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:02:24 -0700 (PDT) From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:00:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970610095958_1585187547 emout01.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: get real folks..Pecking Order Resent-Message-ID: <"fp-iT.0.9k.ivLdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8150 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Don't feel to badly..I'm near the bottom two...I just call it as I see it. Frank Znidarsic From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 08:58:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA00634; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:54:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:54:25 -0700 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:52:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706101552.KAA10959 dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> From: aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki ) Subject: Re: Rifex units vs Mallove's ANS brief report To: vortex-l eskimo.com Cc: aki ix.netcom.com Resent-Message-ID: <"tiuvo3.0.q9.mYNdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8151 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: June 10, 1997 Scott, you wrote: > >I think the departure from beads is relatively new and unexpected. >The kit was always represented as a transmutation experiment...not a >heat experiment. They have talked about providing a "heat kit"...no >promises yet. If the kit was sold for transmutation only and no excess heat with promise of a heat kit later, this raises possibilities: 1. CETI had already put aside bead technology as excess heat technology by the time kits were offered. And they have not told you of this? 2. According to Frank's version of the ANS meeting on remediation, there was entirely different technology from the RIFIX setup. Beads, yes but not Ni or Pd but some carbon core. And they have not kept you up to date on it? Or was this what Earthtech knowingly bought from the begining and we (vortex) were assuming the kit contained the "correct" version of the Patterson Ni-Pd beads? 3. Since the reported excess heat device started to run from February, then the physical work on the device probably was done in January. The thought process to arrive at the device probably ran at least a month before that to December, 1996. Not too far from the time Rifex units were offered. Not too recent to me anyway. Just some loose musings. -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 09:15:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA05494; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:06:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:06:33 -0700 From: Schaffer gav.gat.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970602072346.00668cb4 sparc1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:08:31 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SIMS results Resent-Message-ID: <"ZfamW.0.IL1.tjNdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8152 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Elliot, Thanks for the very useful information about the composition of deposits from glow discharge experiments. As you probably know, everything that has been around in air for a while is coated by many atomic layers of 'stuff' that is weakly bound to the surface. Here in the (hot) fusion group we have developed proceedures to clean materials to be put into the vacuum system. (That surface stuff boils off when the component gets hot, thereby contaminating the plasma.) Admittedly, what I am about to say is applied to stainless steels, Inconel and other metals; we do not have any quantitative experience with Pd, which has a much less reactive surface. First, the surface is cleaned by ordinary solvents. Next, the piece is cleaned in a commercial vapor degreasing tank. (This is a closed tank where a solvent--I don't know its composition--is vaporized from a reservoir and condenses on the pieces to be cleaned, which are supported on racks in the vapor tank. The condensed vapor washes the pieces.) Of course, this still leaves lots of hydrocarbons (HC) bound to the surface. Therefore, it is crucial that the pieces be baked in good leak-free vacuum before use. In our situation, 350 C for 8-12 hr is very effective at getting most HC and water off the surface. This temperature might be a bit high for Pd if you do not want to change its metallurgical structure? 250 C is probably adequate. After the bake there are still some heavy HC and oxide left on the surface. Hydrogen glow will take most of this away, but it loads your Pd test piece before you begin your experiment! We use helium glow with the piece as cathode. Aactually, in our case, the whole interior of the tokamak is made the cathode.) Run in the abnormal glow regime with He pressure down below 1 torr, so that the ions acquire a large fraction of the cathode fall potential. The He ions sputter the surface layers away. Of course, you need to continue pumping and supplying He, to remove the sputtered material. Argon sputters much faster; we don't use it, because Ar ions implant more deeply into the surface and can be hard to get out, whereas He implants shallowly and most of it seems to diffuse out. With respect to Ar conditioning of Pd surfaces, you might be interested in a paper by DN Jewett and AC Makrides, "Diffusion of Hydrogen through Palladium and Palladium-Silver Alloys," Trans. Faraday Soc. v.61 (1964) 932. This paper was cited by JP Nicholson in a paper in Fusion Technology v.30 (1996) 383. Although it is not the main topic of their paper, Jewett and Makrides discuss methods of preparation and 'activation' of Pd a surface to get large and reproducible H absorbtion. One method was Ar glow discharge at 400 C. (Of course, activation for absorbtion does not guarentee either high loading or cold fusion; the preparation might also produce hydrogen desorbtion sites!) Anyway, and showing my bias as a plasma physicist, I think there is a lot to explore using plasmas to fabricate and prepare CF electrodes. If nothing else, it is much easier to keep impurities low (gas at 0.1 torr has about 10^7 times fewer atoms/cm^3 than solid, so one starts with a tremendous advantage in absolute impurity numbers.) Recall, too, that G. Miley made his own beads in a sputter coater before he signed with CETI for authentic Patterson beads. Michael J. Schaffer General Atomics, PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA Tel: 619-455-2841 Fax: 619-455-4156 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 09:27:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA27995; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <339D7EFD.2D59 skylink.net> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:21:17 -0700 From: Robert Stirniman X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: China and anti gravity References: <970610133830_76016.2701_JHC23-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IShQn.0.Kr6.U-Ndp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8153 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Terry Blanton wrote: > I thought some of you might be interested in this message which was posted on my > CompuServe forum. > From: rich.boylan 24stex.com It has been my experience that the source of this article is almost completely unreliable. Almost. That's the thing. Throw in a little ring of truth, and make up the rest. People seem to eat it up. Seen Jerry Springer's show lately? If it were true, why does the AIAA hold some of its important conferences in Beijing? Regards, Robert Stirniman From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 10:26:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA04701; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: 10 Jun 97 13:03:09 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: China and anti gravity Message-ID: <970610170308_76016.2701_JHC103-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"KXYP63.0.I91.GcOdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8154 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Robert Stirniman said, >>It has been my experience that the source of this article is almost completely unreliable. Almost.<< Doctor Boylan?? You're kidding! Or are you talking about the *real* source of the article, the self-declared Spirit of Truth and Beltway Throat, Dan Smith? It's presented for its entertainment value -- intended to be read while in the hot tub. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 13:17:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA20714; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:10:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:10:35 -0700 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:16:31 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: get real folks..Berry Merryman to In-Reply-To: <970610054119_100433.1541_BHG61-3 CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"hMaFE3.0.Z35.vIRdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8155 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 10 Jun 1997, Chris Tinsley wrote: > Subject: Re: get real folks..Berry Merryman to > > Frank, > > > The SMOT will never work. The new technologies revolve around > > electron condensations. There are no condensations in the SMOT. > > Great. That means I can stop playing with it. Thanks for the help. > > Chris > Frank, Chris, Berry, (& others with 'tired fingers') WAIT tell you 'see-it' then you'll get Greg's 'Split-Brain syndrome!' :) I Lucked out and had my (very first) #1SMOT BALL 'Shoot off the ramp and across my table and to the floor (thud) Next to the startled (1/2 sleeping CAT and then another Chain-reaction:)' ... I'm still trying to replicate that one (I saw IT!)..Presently working on smot1,2,3 RMOD1 & 2 & ego enhansment systems in 'yike' spare-time!' (why *must* we sleep?) -------------------- It's there, "WHERE THERE'S SMOT there's FIRE..!!!" God, I'm Glad to be alive now! se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 14:19:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA10692; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: 10 Jun 97 17:12:29 EDT From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Gene Mallove on Art Bell Show -- 2:00 am (Eastern) 6/11/97 Message-ID: <970610211228_76570.2270_FHU15-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"chORQ.0.xc2.XFSdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8156 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Colleagues: I was just now invited to be the guest of the day on the widely syndicated Art Bell show, tonight. Technically, I will be going on at 2:00 a.m. (eastern US time) on June 11th, Wednesday. I suspect that many of you may be in reach of Art Bell's extensive radio empire. I understand he has an audience of 15 million fans. Best wishes, Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief Infinite Energy Magazine Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. PO Box 2816 Concord, NH 03302 Phone: 603-228-4516 Fax: 603-224-5975 76570.2270 compuserve.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 14:36:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA12453; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:27:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:34:43 +0000 Message-ID: <19970610143441.AAA25716 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"tzYkc2.0.G23.cQSdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8157 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:54 PM 6/10/97 +0000, mpowers wrote: >Frederick J. Sparber posted the following (edited for brevity) at 11:45 >1997.06.10 +0000: >>At 05:41 AM 6/10/97 +0000, Chris wrote: >>>Frederick, >>> >>Delving into magnetic cooling effects > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >ok. what's that got to do with SMOT ? >How would it apply ? Well it goes like this...... (edited for brevity) :-) Regards, Frederick >MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM >* http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 (-latest update: >1997.06.10.12:30-) * >**************************************************************************** >********************* > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 15:46:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA03170; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:43:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:43:24 -0700 Date: 10 Jun 97 18:13:47 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: get real folks..Berry Merryman to Message-ID: <970610221347_100433.1541_BHG108-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"Oi7oe1.0.9n.AYTdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8158 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Steve, > Frank, Chris, Berry, (& others with 'tired fingers') WAIT tell you > 'see-it' then you'll get Greg's 'Split-Brain syndrome!' :) Yeah, I've seen it. And I think it IS weird. But I have to stick to the rules, and the rules (in this case) require a closed loop and taking nobody's word for anything. That is no reflection on Greg, just the way things are. You mustn't take literally what we Brits post. Even when we mean what we say, we reserve the option to claim afterwards that we didn't. Does the phrase "Perfidious Albion" mean nothing to you? Chris ("Smotters do it with clean balls.") From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 16:41:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA00901; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:23:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:23:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Schaffer gav.gat.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1346134179==_============" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:18:31 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"4qWEf3.0.zD.h7Udp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8159 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --============_-1346134179==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Attached is a JPEG figure illustrating my text on magnetic energy in smots. I converted this figure with JPEG on my Mac. I can view it with JPEG with no problem. I do not know if those in PC land can read it or not. I have never sent a figure to you folks before. Let me know. --============_-1346134179==_============ Content-Type: application/mac-binhex40; name="MagEnergyFig.jpeg.jpg" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="MagEnergyFig.jpeg.jpg" (This file must be converted with BinHex 4.0) :%8eKCd9ZCA*RH8CTCbjUF'9R!%T348Fi3NP0!3!!!&2h!!!!!(+MrpMri!!35NC *4J!"!3!!!3!"!!$rlJ!13 4[BQ8!C3!!!!!!rpX!3`!3#``1$!S3$Jd1%K%3%aJ S'KJ &KJa)b8G+$Sc26`j-cJh3%KF6N"%9d8h1&"Y89GIBQGSCcj0FAP`C(KFC@G MrpX!3`%4%K)B&4J['KS[Bd)i3Q0MBf0MBf0MBf0MBf0MBf0MBf0MBf0MBf0MBf0 MBf0MBf0MBf0MBf0MBf0MBf0MBf0Mrm!!#`J$'!*N!3%4!2r%!"m!!!%&!3%"!3% "!!!!!!!!!!!"!J-%"3B(#!N+#rr%!,83!!)"!`-#"!-&"33%!!!"I3%#!`!%%38 5)6&""K04B3FLF43bJC'K##0#XF%98Y(`*$0LFS)*#KBA'"ND*5BR+#NU0$8f0cJ j1N0%48C(5%P+8e499PGB 9TMC'9QCfKTDR0dGAChH(PkJi5&KSH)LBU5Nj59PTH BQCULSk5PTUHSUDUbXl5eYVHiZEV#`m6&aXI)bFV5dp69eYIBfGVKiZ2NjHERk1R UmI,cp2AfprMjq[r%!"m"!!-"!3%"!3%"!3%!!!!!!!!"!J-%"3B(#!N+#rrD!!J "!3!!2`$d#LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSiTijAQ50XY#qaaMSGSE(j-2cU5LLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLU1Vc,"DU ZjECQN9)r*f&jA2!3E`4bITdcN$0&SdqRk1*0@ZPQPKMCjjP6!ib6 J!GKadjadVKr!'Z5cH)Eb#iG9&qAR#!0J5jbG[TaRVrG(0HM88888889NkhH5YT% jdQlL&d*ilF1#'%EQ49)EJiqpcaQSE6 C,TV#&rh&i,MbEfh+i+RbC'ikr+5S))2 )lpDZ3DRjeVTFhNirY$EaZreHBQNp1IZilGDVk&IA&hjAfL6IZdqfQ2bJI1qrFH2 AD2bUjUNmP[DSm6E 0a!K1-m0+UNIN681YkLG-Yij`M1!C#9$!EYX8Mi13IlRE(p #IfSm%MM8,GEC2)Hi8V*jK#*YhE`"`IQ(#PKejkCVk4Vie'mqb[(E"c"j`0[GV1& `3#VB!`4NHS21$a8ejUXd%e`BVD15eY0[fQCT5V*RjQ`ZdlYU%0e'Fi'69MlC)fV YC*Ej4)NPHB[J!-A!'1T19qQ-mM!",k1qIGpLQMMcEbUZiG*6Yf0d2!`fIVd0CFe j)fThmFPrU8+`bUL*DfIQU"jD0bI+ER,([k8jGDZJeY',GClUiJYb%594%(F5&MZ `6J#-R),C`-$ZA*UekMA#0DHCFYHVE43Q3"9rFUl%[Ml[hfcM2)'"d$Cr%CJF`c3 fe[F,1BL,Lk%DB%DX $l6hG3"M*!!Fi()%eMGhZUfUhYXmF-8RP!4PJqdT+`Q``" ""8B"r(LYLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSEUdY Vb-4hG[&1J1i,+JB!qZ$pDUhqM GlSmQPl2XpUq2PJ!6EKJh('1Sp+j2`Ri@XcIA 9iYaGT,BDK*!!al(!$+Z2[FFjb3FBb+lbLLLLLX292&0MBc'eYa*Ihh) fYK[E)c `51Q-FMNMdUQfPklVflqelVqcE0XMl(D-#l$jKKhkG#1"N!"p!Df)0&XE `@bYBI )J 9*X)H5bZ''5FNmU"p1+GFD9EA'V@QT2Z@iY3kU9`0`BB`h'6M*ach04`D0&$, DYpTZA5d2qMa-bl)aY+lH!#H$eBNmGH6QDadf'`fq8dMEEH+h'iMlXHl"kGIQ1DN [V4Eff-,554I1MKimEP+X'"'3!%G31SURFD+,b!`hPrGcVmf#`M8VZ4d10U$Xjkp `2I0Ukdq#mNh6KQ"JNJC-i$)qhGlr!-)lqY4f'QQcNh[IhPd4')e%mJ)8$[J!!Nr hMNqp0ZY*5jZ(N!$Fcaabl21J6EjFfdra!U6b-+F%C!!2& PYN@mPZJ@hb4T'4f` TBMrd-rT8e3` b35h%L&LEL350RX3UVaq#LXmq(lEbi&MRZBhYiiBiT8F"Pm[F!H Q$N1`))))25SEl5'KY#eVpVZEJhDA"FA#T+VE3KCFMDH"pdiA")'1"8HRk02)C,Z iPZl1k0`mNE#CANf&%3Kq#Kh&!f!#&i!aLYUdYaD XF#b5bK"MI-jGfpb68e&&&& &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&Fri5rjMIm!f&CrrCD k#LLL[1r&[MH3!0`,64*YU41#pb[1mJp&r`"Re2IkGG$5VE I&HP`A'TDTpRXC%+ Q+dADmf0bNZHfI3C"p"A8DET9MT8*LX,D1"6piVbcGHT2*kRV9bLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSjjilD&TCQfS[YNNRJ!!FNNm!$NNi URra-EcrU(`rm"NQ2mdANIlH3!(q%dIfGGIm!3C[[qq)2rMG(pRAAr3C[[qq)2rM G(pRAAr3C[[m![L$r!10dIfGGIp"QqrliJrm!MG(pRAAr!%'Elr[L$rih4rCeerd 'Elr[L$rih4rCeerd'Elr!,iJr`$MG(pRAAr3C[[qq)2r!)h4rCeer`""QqrliJr q0dIfGGIp"QqrliJrq0dIfGGIp"Qqr`#q)2m!ih4rCeerd'Elr[L$r`#0dIfGGIm !3C[[qq)2rMG(pRAAr3C[[qq)2rMG(pRAAr3C[[m![L$r!10dIfGGIp"QqrliJrm !MG(pRAAr!%'Elr[L$rih4rCeerd'Elr[L$rih (iAXTj2lAfDRGaEG6Q8l&LqFm I-FSH6lB(Y jrCeerd'Elr[L$r`#0dIfGGIm!3C[[qq)2rMG(pRAAr3C[[qq)2rM G3hHL5AYV*EA'XDJd8SfZ&mTFMdb)`DaIq&FD2rcmhhrIDIm!a0E9VSCXic(DDMF `)6Z+a3fkJRe`)[DT[l1Z[qJcIIm!I%(r!-ESrXkkr`#JcIIpm3Ir!"ZMqcVVrS- hhrI%(raZMqcVVrS-hhrI%(raZMqcVVrS-hhr!(a"r`$'k2l1Z[m!S-hhrI%(r`! 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--============_-1346134179==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Michael J. Schaffer General Atomics, PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA Tel: 619-455-2841 Fax: 619-455-4156 --============_-1346134179==_============-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 16:58:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA04267; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:46:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: SMOT & Magneto Caloric Effects Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:23:08 +0000 Message-ID: <19970610122306.AAA28924 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"zsHVG.0.W21.ySUdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8160 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris: Since I'm in a panic over a refrigerator-freezer that is on the fritz I have been burning some midnight oil to see if I can avoid a recharge cost. Meantime looked up Magneto Caloric Effects and Adiabatic Demagnetization. Magneto Caloric Effect: dT/dH = - T/sp.heat*[DM/DT](heat) D is a partial derivative or such. Adiabatic Demagnetization: "To magnetize a body,energy must be added that is proportional to the product of the field strength and magnetization produced. If the body thus magnetized is thermally isolated,this addition of energy results in a rise in temperature. Conversely, demagnetization (dropping the ball?)results in a lowering of the temperature." Are the *artifact* EM fields supplying a form of SMOT *heat engine*? Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 17:25:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA24920; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:22:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:22:45 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970610122306.AAA28924 LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:21:25 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: SMOT & Magneto Caloric Effects Resent-Message-ID: <"79RQD3.0.E56.J_Udp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8162 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick - > Are the *artifact* EM fields supplying > a form of SMOT *heat engine*? See "SMOT thoughts" - I think we're on a very similar if not identical track. But does it really need EM to work? A SMOT might just pump the heat the "wrong way" between the strongly coercive PMs that naturally want to spring back to a magnetized state, and the soft ferrous ball that naturally wants to spring back to an unmagnetized state. Does this mean the magnets warm up as they spring back after having some energy apparently 'stolen' by the ball? Or do they cool as well as they return to their 'lower' energy state? Further, if there's anything to this, the spin and speed of the ball through the various parts of the ramps in relation to the hysteresis curve probably plays a complex role. Some of the tricky adjustments required are perhaps really bringing these factors into proper relationship to get the best energy transfer. Test for this hypothesis...(?) Relative to ambient temperature, do this: Chill the ball (and warm the magnets?) - SMOT should "run rough". Warm the ball (and chill the magnets?) - SMOT should run well. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 17:36:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA11177; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:22:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:06:25 -1000 To: Vortex-L From: Rick Monteverde Subject: SMOT thoughts Resent-Message-ID: <"pqOFw1.0.Ik2.u-Udp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8161 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: SMOT thoughts: The ball 'falls' down an energy well to the more magnetized state in the narrow end of the magnet arrays, and in doing so becomes slightly magnetized itself. A partially (presumable somewhat randomly with several small N-S zones) magnetized ball will experience less net attraction going up the rails - or more importantly - *down the backside* or drop. There's an energy difference here. Stronger pull up the front of a ramp due to a 'fresher' ball, but weaker back pull as it leaves due to the slight magnetism. This idea has to fit hysteresis curves and probably the ball's spin too. Anyway, to return to a higher energy state the ball needs to throw away that residual magnetism. The ball gets an opportunity to do that during the periods it's in a much lower strength field, thereby regaining some of its magnetic potential (a more demagnetized state). Now alternating current is used to re-randomize ferromagnetic domains, IOW demagnetize soft steel/iron. One possibility - the stray EM fields in the environment might be helping to demagnetize the ball, thus sopping up some of the magnetic entropy it has gathered during its run through the SMOT. Again, EM shielding might help reveal this as others have mentioned. But would the usual Faraday cage be enough here? If the balls like to quickly and naturally give up residual magnetism anyway by relaxing or 'annealing' for a moment right there at room temperature - no EM needed - , then you'd really need to enclose the net magnetic energy of the system - as well as the thermal energy - in a solid ferrous box. It would be working a bit like Horaces thermal drift thing, in a way. THE POINT OF THIS: you'd probably need a well insulated solid steel box within which to do your calorimetry to try to 'kill' a working closed-loop SMOT in order to reveal and measure its secret. And if that's how it works, it's an apparent 2nd law violation anyway, and we're still having fun. Let's see; free energy, and free air-conditioning as a "waste" product? I like it. Yes yes, we have to build them first...ahem. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 18:08:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA18780; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:59:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:59:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: SMOT & Magnetocaloric Effects Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 00:58:16 +0000 Message-ID: <19970611005814.AAA9109 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"O4bHC.0.Kb4._XVdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8163 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:21 AM 6/11/97 +0000, you wrote: >Frederick - > > > Are the *artifact* EM fields supplying > > a form of SMOT *heat engine*? > >See "SMOT thoughts" - I think we're on a very similar if not identical >track. But does it really need EM to work? A SMOT might just pump the heat >the "wrong way" between the strongly coercive PMs that naturally want to >spring back to a magnetized state, and the soft ferrous ball that naturally >wants to spring back to an unmagnetized state. Does this mean the magnets >warm up as they spring back after having some energy apparently 'stolen' by >the ball? Or do they cool as well as they return to their 'lower' energy >state? After thinking it over I (do-don't) :-) see any need for anything other than "ambient" heat for the most part. I think that as the PMs magnetize the ball they would like to drop in temperature, but are maintained by heat gain from their surroundings. The ball however, is gaining magnetic strength and rising in temperature until it goes into the lower magnetic field, where it might lose magnetism and cool faster if "rattled" by impact or EM "noise"? > >Further, if there's anything to this, the spin and speed of the ball >through the various parts of the ramps in relation to the hysteresis curve >probably plays a complex role. Some of the tricky adjustments required are >perhaps really bringing these factors into proper relationship to get the >best energy transfer. The track could be draining-cooling the ball also? :-) > >Test for this hypothesis...(?) Helluva sensitive Infrared heat sensor? > >Relative to ambient temperature, do this: > >Chill the ball (and warm the magnets?) - SMOT should "run rough". > >Warm the ball (and chill the magnets?) - SMOT should run well. > > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > Magnetocaloric Heat Engine? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 18:20:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA22908; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:13:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:13:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970611011232.00667840 sparc1> X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:12:32 +0900 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Elliot Kennel Subject: Re: SIMS results Resent-Message-ID: <"TlZh-3.0.rb5.ikVdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8164 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mike wrote, >>Thanks for the very useful information about the composition of deposits from glow discharge experiments...Here in the (hot) fusion group we have developed proceedures to clean materials to be put into the vacuum system...First, the surface is cleaned by ordinary solvents. Next, the piece is cleaned in a commercial vapor degreasing tank...it is crucial that the pieces be baked in good leak-free vacuum before use...we use helium glow with the piece as cathode. Aactually, in our case, the whole...<< Thanks Mike. Your protocol is fairly similar to mine. I use ultrasonic cleaning in acetone followed by vacuum baking at 800 C in situ in the vacuum chamber, which is oil free (turbomolecular pump + scroll pump). I'm aware that better vacuums can be achieved in a gold-plated system which will minimize outgassing; plus the whole system could be heated as part of an outgassing proceedure and then water cooled during the experiment. Plus the remaining viton seal in the system could be replaced by a permanent weld. In addition I could cold trap the system with a liquid nitrogen trap, and if I did all those things I believe that a sub 10^-8 vacuum can be attained. But my view is that even very clean systems will have many atomic layers of miscellaneous crud deposited on the surface of the cathode, which after all acts like a magnet for electropositive ions. Moreover stray ions will scavenge the solid surface of whatever materials exist. So in my view the appearance of strange materials on the surface of plasma electrodes does not in itself constitute an anomaly; nor is it the case that my system is exceptionally dirty (in fact, I believe that my system is probably vry clean compared to other published experiments). It doesn't take much to deposit a few atomic layers of foreign material on a surface. However, one thing I forgot to mention is that different plasma modes are cleaner than others. To produce a carbon deposit, I ran a sparking discharge at high voltage and current and low pressure. I think there is always a slow deposition of foreign material in a discharge, but a higher pressure discharge can scavenge material faster than it is deposited, and in that case, the surface can be fairly clean. I think the Karabut experiment, which shows foreign materials with hydrogen, deuterium and argon, but less material with argon, shows that sputter cleaning with the heavier inert argon ions can remove some of the deposition (but the fact that any foreign material at all appears with inert argon makes it seem exceedingly unlikely that this is a cold fusion effect). But in any case, in my view it is incumbent upon the experimenter to explain why foreign material on the cathode should be interpreted as an anomaly rather than normal (unavoidable) mass transport; i.e., dirt. Best regards, Elliot Kennel Sapporo From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 19:52:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA07719; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:31:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:31:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <339E02B6.5D836B86 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 05:43:18 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SR7YO2.0.Qu1.7uWdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8165 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Thanks for Michael J. Schaffer energy diagram. I understand that Schaffer diagram is follows actual the ball path not the longitudinal - center axis of the magnets.This can be seen from the early return flux of the magnets below before the magnets longitudinal ends. The below is other issue and may not be related to above. I made lot of rampless SMOT experiments two days ago and get null results. My experiment setup was like this: L-\o MMMMMMMMMM \_______________________________________________________________|-L A B P The Roll down ramp(A) is 10 degree inclineded and Ball is started with 1 cm potential energy. Track B is 1 meter long and slightly inclined up to restore the 10 mm drop from the start. (L-)'s shows the same level 25 mm diameter ball is used. track inner spacing is 12 mm. When no magnets are present, released ball from ramp A roll until the point p and return. Track-ball frictions are minimized so the ball keep rolled and swing about a minute until full stop at bottom of A. When magnets are inserted in various configurations( classical, chevron arrangements and its variations, single top magnet arrays) the ball does not roll never beyond point p. On well balanced arrangements and within smooth acceleration deceleration schemes (which ensure ball rolling without sliding) equalize the point p. Result: Rampless configurations are not suitable for observing OU effects. Possible causes for this results: - Linear kinetic energy is not enough to trigger the effect. - Linear kinetic energy is still symmetric and not able to trigger the effect.(according my symmetry breaking idea) - Sliding conditions (with using strong magnets and big potential walls) are too lossy to observe the effect. - Non lateral crossing of the magnetic field is required for the effect. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 20:50:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA19299; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:46:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:46:09 -0700 (PDT) From: ehammond pacbell.net Message-ID: <339E1F98.5C98 pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:46:32 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-PBME (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: get real folks..Pecking Order References: <199706100419.VAA29939 moebius.math.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AoZm02.0.Tj4.xzXdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8166 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: > > Tim Vaughan wrote: > > >Someday SMOT based technology will rule ! > > First it has to roll. The below URL has an article about ether as presented in Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine. Compare with current ZPE etc. theories. http://www.blavatsky.org/evether.html From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 10 21:17:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA24463; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <339E22E8.49DD skypoint.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:00:40 -0500 From: John Logajan Organization: Skypoint Communications, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RnI52.0.9-5.G9Ydp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8167 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Schaffer gav.gat.com wrote: > I converted this figure with JPEG on my Mac. I can view it with JPEG with > no problem. I do not know if those in PC land can read it or not. I have > never sent a figure to you folks before. Let me know. I viewed it on a PC running Netscape mail, but I had to save it first and then pull the file back into a jpeg viewer. Others who attach images somehow manage to have them automatically appear right in the Netscape mail window. Don't know how, though, never've done it. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 00:47:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA26742; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 00:45:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 00:45:42 -0700 From: ehammond pacbell.net Message-ID: <339E57D2.6A7F pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 00:46:26 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-PBME (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: get real folks..Pecking Order References: <199706100419.VAA29939 moebius.math.ucla.edu> <339E1F98.5C98@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zX6SM3.0.iX6.bUbdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8168 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: It is quit possible for experimenters attitude to influence results of experiments. This is especially true in unexplored areas where people have strong emotions and attachments to ideas. Check out Princton Engineering http://www.princeton.edu/~rdnelson/pear.html project on human influnces on compouters,mechanical systems etc. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 01:59:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA02044; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 01:55:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 01:55:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970611005814.AAA9109 LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:53:25 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: SMOT & Magnetocaloric Effects Resent-Message-ID: <"Sflik2.0.sV.-Vcdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8169 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick - > Magnetocaloric Heat Engine? :-) Remember folks, we heard it here first. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 04:59:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA12581; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 04:55:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 04:55:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Over-Unity CF Clutch? Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:53:53 +0000 Message-ID: <19970611115351.AAA11310 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"9Jpxc1.0.V43.Y8fdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8170 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To Vortex: I figure that rubbing two discs of palladium together in an atmosphere of H2 or D2 will probably show some CF effects. :-) Permanent magnetic armature in a sealed 304-316 Stainless "can" with external driving coils? Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 05:24:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA18374; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 05:23:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 05:23:47 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: SMOT & Magnetocaloric Effects Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:23:12 +0000 Message-ID: <19970611122310.AAA19285 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"PsSwl3.0.0V4.JZfdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8171 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick: You might consider a demagnetization "tunnel" for the ball to go through to "close the loop". This can be one of the conductors feeding your bench lamp formed into a coil of several turns around the track, or an antenna lead fed from a few meters of wire so's you can pick up the world's ELF noise for a "freebie". :-) After you've done this, you might make an entry in your, Boy Scout Manual, to the effect that rubbing two palladium plated sticks together, gets you Cold Fusion heat for your campfire! :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 06:46:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA32732; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 06:40:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 06:40:18 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 05:38:41 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: SMOT & Magnetocaloric Effects Resent-Message-ID: <"vDqPK3.0.H_7.1hgdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8172 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 4:23 AM 6/11/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote: >Rick: > >You might consider a demagnetization "tunnel" for the ball to go through > to "close the loop". > [snip] > >Regards, Frederick Some very interesting ideas floating about vortex now! FEEL THE SYNERGY! The demagnetization tunnel might be achieved by alternating magnetic field directions at the beginning of the ramp. It is especially interesting that the Hartman patent shows the magnets in a staggered array at the beginning of the ramp and jammed together at the end of the ramp kind of like so: m m m m m mmmmmMMM \/\/\/\/\ ... |||||||| m m m m m mmmmmMMM m - small magnet M - larger longer magnet on angle | or /\ - flux direction The oscillating field direction at the beginning of the ramp may serve to demagnetize the ball at the beginning of the ramp, in addition to diluting the field strength there. The rotational inertia of the ball may help to stabilize it during the demagetization phase. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 08:06:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA12771; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:03:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:03:42 -0700 Message-ID: <339EBD86.2737 microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:30:22 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Mark II Progress Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cLGKw.0.Q73.Dvhdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8173 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have made some good headway with the SMOT Mark II design. The design is much more stable and less subject to lunar phase variation and the experimenters desire for the thing to work/not work. I can get a climb and drop of 14-15mm on a 12mm ball WITHOUT requiring ANY magnet positional adjustments. Just put the magnet arrays into their designated places on the ramps and it works. I can get good linking by varying the inter-ramp link distance. NO magnet adjustments are necessary. I can get level rollaway with just TWO linked ramps. I am currently experimenting with 2 sets of 2 linked SMOT Mark II ramps joined by 100mm radius N gauge track (180 deg turn) and 50mm feeders. ->- / \ / \ | | --- --- | | | | --- --- | | | | --- --- | | \ / \ / -<- Not working yet! The curves are very lossy and I am working with level rollaway ramps. I plan to post construction plans and photos to my web page in the next few days. If these plans allow others to achieve level rollaway, then we will have something to build on. By the way, the magnet arrays are a combination of Terry Blanton's and my designs. The SMOT ramp kits will be the Mark II variety. Will keep you posted. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 08:10:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA13915; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:09:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:09:13 -0700 From: Schaffer gav.gat.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970611011232.00667840 sparc1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:11:33 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SIMS results Resent-Message-ID: <"tMHng2.0.GP3.O-hdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8174 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Good work, Elliot. I look forward to more of it. Michael J. Schaffer General Atomics, PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA Tel: 619-455-2841 Fax: 619-455-4156 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 10:05:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA25077; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:00:03 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Britz' Publication vs Time Curve Resent-Message-ID: <"TVZxg2.0.l76.Wejdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8175 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For those who may have missed it, Dieter Britz has published a diagram showing the number of CF publications vs time. He did logarithmic decline cure fit, but as he posted on s.p.f., the data appears to be better fit by a logaritmic decline followed by a flat baseline; the flat baseline provided by the more permanent cast of true believers. The graph can be viewed at . I wonder if he did this work in response to Bart Simon's paper? Certainly is relevant. Hopefully Patterson's "120 percent more effecient water heater" and nuclear remediation process, which aired on ABC's Good Morning America today will eventually result in a bimodal distribution in Britz' Publication vs Time Curve. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 10:50:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA09998; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:43:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:43:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199706111743.KAA26386 popmail.UCSD.EDU> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Bart Simon" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:44:49 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Britz' Publication vs Time Curve Reply-to: bssimon helix.ucsd.edu Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"S9G4I.0.8S2.wEkdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8176 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greetings, Horace wrote: > The graph can be viewed at . I wonder > if he did this work in response to Bart Simon's paper? Certainly is > relevant. Very relevant. By my work is more in reponse to Dieter's since he's been doing this stuff for a long time (and I apologize here for not citing him more explicitly in the paper draft). Here's something to consider about the flat-line portion of the curve -- what is the rate of publication for any research field with lets say 200 or so active researchers? Can Dieter's curve be interpreted as a "movement" into normal science with all that 1989-90 stuff being abnormal froth from over-publicity? Note the curve also changes significantly if you apply different criteria than Dieter for deciding what counts as a legitimate publication. Substantive articles in IE, Cold Fusion, Fusion Facts and CF Times, as well as web-based documents are worth considering I think since they have (I would argue) a palpable impact on CF research and CF research culture. Detailed comparison curves drawn from Hal Fox's bibliography would be interesting to see . I know Hal and Mitchell Swartz had something at ICCF-5, the graph showed a declining publication rate from 1989-90 based on Dieter's bib and a relatively constant rate based on Hal's. cheers, Bart Simon p.s. I saw the ABC report - that geiger counter demonstration seemed pretty convincing, am I missing something? ============================================ Bart Simon Dept. of Sociology/Science Studies-0533 University of California at San Diego (UCSD) 9500 Gilman Dr. La Jolla, CA, 92093-0533 phone: 619-534-0491/fax: 619-534-3388 =========================================== From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 12:52:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA13940; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:30:43 -0700 (PDT) From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 15:28:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970611152632_-1964478624 emout15.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: get real Resent-Message-ID: <"XHEX32.0.kP3.Vpldp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8177 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Cold fusion people peck on magnet motor people. I'm not picking on anyone. It's just that I have a had a vision of what the new technology should look like. My vision has included extra energy and levitation. The reduction of radioactivity caught me by surpize. Noever's ideas and Marshall did not. It was what I expected and what I was looking for. Frank Z From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 14:24:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA16975; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:11:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:11:34 -0700 Date: 11 Jun 97 17:10:16 EDT From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Mail Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Message-ID: <970611211016_100060.173_JHB67-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"JbSPh1.0.594.4Indp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8178 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael, >> I converted this figure with JPEG on my Mac. I can view it with JPEG with no problem. I do not know if those in PC land can read it or not. I have never sent a figure to you folks before. Let me know. ------ OzWin: Content #3, Binary File ------ Filename: C:\OZWIN2\DL\CM970611.001 Size: 29736 bytes ** File transfer OK ** << I've tried several decoding and viewing methods without success on my PC. All report that cm970611. is not recognisable as any form of encoding. Sorry! Norman From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 14:47:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA22065; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:44:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:44:04 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970611214354.0071bb04 atlantic.net> X-Sender: johmann atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:43:54 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Kurt Johmann Subject: Frank's Tiny Comets Resent-Message-ID: <"oXGlE2.0.gO5.Zmndp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8179 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On page 1333, the latest issue of Science (May 30, vol 276) has a one-page "Research News" article about Frank's comets (roughly 20 "house-sized" comets are hitting the Earth per minute according to Frank's interpretation of the satellite data). Based on my reading of the article: on the one hand, the satellite-based evidence for the comets looks very good, but on the other hand, the bigger-picture evidence against the comets also looks very good (in a nutshell, the arguments against the comets boil down to the question as to why, if they are there, the inner solar system appears to be so "dry" and none of the other inner-solar-system bodies, including the moon, show any sign of a similar rain of comets). Although such speculation may be completely premature, there is at least one way to reconcile the observations of both sides: could it be that Frank and his satellite have stumbled onto the sprinkler system of the gods -- or whatever you want to call any hypothesized intra-solar nonhuman super civilization that is normally hidden from our view -- by which they keep their garden watered? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 17:24:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA24593; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:21:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:21:52 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <339F4106.3CE0 math.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:21:27 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bssimon helix.ucsd.edu CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: CETI demo References: <199706111743.KAA26386 popmail.UCSD.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TzdWk1.0.A06.V4qdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8180 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bart Simon wrote: > > p.s. I saw the ABC report - that geiger counter demonstration seemed > pretty convincing, am I missing something? > Yes. How do you know the radiactive elements were not simply plating out ont the cathode, hence being removed from the region the counter was monitoring, for one.... By the way: there have been many (I know of at least 4) groups that have been in contact with DOE/NRC/ETC in the past decade, claiming to be able to remediate radioactivity. None of these has led to any significant development, however. So, such claims are certainly familiar to DOE. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 17:41:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA01351; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970612003244.00667454 sparc1> X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:32:44 +0900 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Elliot Kennel Subject: More on x-ray film Resent-Message-ID: <"AD3B6.0.zK.UFqdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8181 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Recently I've found out from R. K. Rout that their x-ray film experiment has success only with a certain type of film. Specifically, he writes that "the X-ray film used by us to observe anomalous emission was screen type polyster based 'INDU' medical X-ray, (From Hindustan Photo films India Ltd.)." They have not had success with Kodak film or dental x-ray film apparently. We have not had success with the Rout et al experiment, though the Indians have achieved 100% reproducibility. Apparently, the type of film is the likely reason cited by Rout. I am interested if others in the community have tried the Rout experiment and what the results have been, and what types of film were tried. Meantime, I am going to try to buy some Indian x-ray film, though I expect that this might take some time. Best regards, Elliot From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 19:15:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA18281; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:13:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:13:19 -0700 Message-Id: From: jlogajan skypoint.com (John Logajan) Subject: Re: CETI demo To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:13:11 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <339F4106.3CE0 math.ucla.edu> from "Barry Merriman" at Jun 11, 97 05:21:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vnAyT1.0.UT4.-irdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8182 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: > Bart Simon wrote: > > p.s. I saw the ABC report - that geiger counter demonstration seemed > > pretty convincing, am I missing something? > > Yes. How do you know the radiactive elements were not > simply plating out ont the cathode, hence being removed > from the region the counter was monitoring, for one.... I would wonder along the same lines as Barry. It wasn't clear in the demo where the monitoring took place. Both alpha and beta emitters would not do well if having to travel through water, therefore the physical location of the concentration of emitters could have a large impact on the measured rate at the detector. I believe they said on the program that the uranium was dissolved into the electrolyte and pumped around. I know from installing a water softener and reading the customer's "Meet Your Water Softener" manual, that they work by something call ion exchange. Water with dissolved minerals is pressured through a reactive mesh. The minerals ionically bond with the mesh and are removed from the water beyond. Every so often a salt bath is backwashed through the mesh, which for chemical reasons unknown to me, displaces the minerals and washes them down the drain. Then the mesh is ready for a few more days of water softening. Now we know that Patterson himself claims an ionic exchange process. So his device could be easily collecting uranium right in the cell. I guess that's where the detector should be placed, if it isn't already. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 19:16:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA18566; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:14:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:14:10 -0700 Date: 11 Jun 97 22:12:32 EDT From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: CETI demo Message-ID: <970612021232_76570.2270_FHU43-4 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"PoE4I2.0.0Y4.mjrdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8183 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry wrote: "Yes. How do you know the radiactive elements were not simply plating out ont the cathode, hence being removed from the region the counter was monitoring, for one...." This obviously has been elaborately checked out. The radiation has NOT migrated anywhere in the CETI cell. Furthermore, in parallel work by another group that will appear in IE#13, the checking has been done exhaustively by total dissolution of the (non-flow-through) cell contents before and after run. DOE is incapable of making an unbiased assessment of *anything* -- epsecially things that conflict with its navel-centered world view. Gene Mallve From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 21:56:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA18022; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:47:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:47:51 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <339F7F70.29B5 math.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:47:44 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: CETI PR blitz References: <970612021232_76570.2270_FHU43-4 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"box_y1.0.SP4.sztdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8184 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: My armchair appraisal: I give thumbs up to Mallove's interview on the Art Bell Show, which was clear, not too sensational, and well reasoned. (For the foreigners: the Art Bell show is a very popular overnight radio show devoted to paranormal and fringe phenomena---he usually acts as an open forum for the most fringe characters he can find). I give mixed thumbs----one up, one down---to the CETI piece on Good Morning america. At least they showed a time-lapse of the purported Uranium deactivation experiment. Actually, CETI was upstaged in the first hour of the show, which had a cool video of a purported lake monster in Lake Van, Turkey. I give two thumbs down to the network science correspondent who produced the CETI segment. The guy acts like a total goofball, literally squealing with joy when Redding shows him CETI's in-lab hot water heater. Later, he claims to be skeptical, and then in the next breath peels of a list of CETI PR points. Then he describes the ANS as the "bastion of conservative" nuclear physics. Uh, I wish he would tell us exactly what other type of established nuclear physics there is? Since when does a "skeptical" science correspondent label the mainstream scientists as a bastion of anything other than established science? ---- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 23:53:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA26507; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970612064515.00667f78 sparc1> X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:45:15 +0900 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Elliot Kennel Subject: 1997 IECEC Resent-Message-ID: <"Yuyfv1.0.5U6.Vjvdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8185 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I'm wondering whether there will be a session at the 1997 Interntational Energy Conversion Engineering Conference on Cold Fusion, and whether there are any significant papers expected. Does anybody have any information? Best regards, Elliot Kennel Sapporo Japan From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 11 23:56:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA28093; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970612065413.006ae014 atlantic.net> X-Sender: johmann atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 02:54:13 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Kurt Johmann Subject: Mallove Show is at Archive Site for Art Bell Resent-Message-ID: <"rt-v8.0.ss6.Frvdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8186 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At least one archive site for the Art Bell show is: http://ww2.audionet.com/artbell/archive.html#jun97 The selection for the Mallove show, which was just last night, is already on the above Web page. The link on that page for the Mallove show is: Tuesday Night/Wednesday Morning 06/10/1997 All that is needed to listen to it is a RealAudio player. Overall, I thought Mallove did a good job as the talk-show guest. It was a good show. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 00:22:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA05097; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:19:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:19:57 -0700 Message-Id: From: jlogajan skypoint.com (John Logajan) Subject: More on CETI ABC demo To: vortex-l eskimo.com (vortex-l) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 02:19:48 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GUarE3.0.ZF1.SCwdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8187 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In reviewing the video tape segment of the ABC-TV CETI demo, some clues are available. Apparently the device was "off" when Patterson was mixing up the uranium/water solution in the reservoir. The Geiger counter is already registering 300CPM, so the detector must have been mounted in the vicinity of the reservoir. The cell appears to be about a foot or so to the left, and when the device is turned on, one can see the reservoir level vary throught the time lapse (run of about 1:45 in 15 minute increments.) The CPM drops to 150CPM in roughly equal steps at each 15 frame grab -- execpt for the last 15 minutes when the CPM decline is not apparent. Unfortunately, if my surmise is correct, the detector in the demo is probably nearer the reservoir than the cell, and so if the cell was capturing a coating of the uranium atoms, it would reduce the concentration in the flow, and hence, in the reservoir -- thus giving an apparent illusion of reduction in radioactivity. My experience with uranium and Geiger counters is that you get a dramatic change in count rates over that last foot of seperation. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 00:27:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA05824; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:25:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:25:39 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:31:33 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: "Hinman, Jeffrey M" cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: 180 degree turn In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"JBke2.0.sQ1.oHwdp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8188 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Hinman, Jeffrey M wrote: > Some SMOT improvements: > > I have been subscribing to the list and watching the design of the SMOT > ramps. > > I have played with magnets for many years and have always wondered about > overunity possibility. I think what you are doing is fascinating. > > I have suggestions for the 180 degree curves. Since most of the > friction is due to difference in curve radius lengths, has a monorail > approach been considered? Use only ONE rail and place magnets above > the ball throughout the turn to keep it centered on the rail. This > should reduce both rolling friction and sliding friction due to radius > difference. The ball could initially drop onto the standard n-gauge two > rail track (or u-channel) with a monorail in the center (lower than the > two rail track). The outer two rails could descend faster than the > monorail so the ball eventually rides only on the monorail and begins > the 180 degree turn. This could be reversed upon exit of the curve and > entry of another SMOT ramp. By using the two rail to one rail approach, > the ball attraction magnets used for the curve could be kept separate > from the SMOT ramps to minimize affect on the SMOT magnetic field. I > think the challenges of the monorail curve design are making a super > flat surface with a sight decline throughout the curve, setting up the > magnets above the ball that are rigid and do not vary in field > intensity, and allowing fine adjustments (especially at exit of the > curve) to allow the ball to escape the field with enough momentum to > reach the next SMOT ramp. > ********************************************************** > What I don't know is if the attractive magnetic field causes momentum > loss because of the rolling ball interacting with the field. > ********************************************************** -- Jeffery, I love 'reverse thinking - "If you can't take Mohammad to the Mountain, bring the Mountain to Mohammed!", But I have to admit you have got me on this 'monorail' idea.... THE RAMP (magnets DO ACCELERATE the volocity of the steel ball (when in its field -- zoom -- & out (hopefully) and the 'drop' off of few millimeters...ADDS to it's forward momentum (V)), I'm feeling like an unskilled (n-guage train builder here - tiny tracks (2) balancing steel balls..)) your " ONE " or monorail idea has given me much thought, but would your 'ball' float 180 degree turn only via magnets (left/right) balance?..' MAGNETS 'Above' (how so??)?? > A variance on this might be the monorail above with the magnets. The > ball would be attracted up (a small distance) and then contact the rail > because of the magnets on the other side of the rail. This might be > even more efficient, but maybe more difficult to procure. > ** maybe a .gif here?? ** sounds sound? > It might be noted that the metal rail (or monorail) might need to be a > non-ferrous material to keep the ball and rail from being attracted to > each other while in the magnetic field thereby increasing rolling > resistance. Generally the harder the material, the less contact/rolling > resistance. This also might be something to consider for the SMOT ramps > themselves. > > Keep up the work! > > Thanks. > > Jeff Hinman > Seattle, WA > > the above 'balance' monorail thought was from working with 'smot1' & n -guage train rail.. gravity on TWO (2) rails is tricky enough to balance, but maybe I missed your point. ?? Are you saying, "this is LESS friction with a single (bottom sphere) track, then on 'two sided contact?' If so, Which "makes sense to me too", I think you should try to even get the 'single-SMOT'(double-rail) even linked together to see the troubles! Someone mentioned a TUBE!! a plumbing tube (P-Joint) Are you cutting Friction in 1/2?? GREAT!! se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 04:31:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA16940; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 04:26:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 04:26:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:22:23 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: CETI PR blitz In-Reply-To: <339F7F70.29B5 math.ucla.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xLezB1.0.b84.dpzdp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8189 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry, On that last bit at the end, would you give the tele-journalist the redundancy of redundancy awards? Do you recall his name? Had to laugh, J On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Barry Merriman wrote: > My armchair appraisal: > > I give thumbs up to Mallove's interview on the Art Bell > Show, which was clear, not too sensational, and well > reasoned. > > (For the foreigners: the Art Bell show > is a very popular overnight radio show devoted to > paranormal and fringe phenomena---he usually acts > as an open forum for the most fringe characters he can find). > > I give mixed thumbs----one up, one down---to the CETI > piece on Good Morning america. At least they showed a > time-lapse of the purported Uranium deactivation experiment. > > Actually, CETI was upstaged in the first hour of the show, which > had a cool video of a purported lake monster in Lake Van, Turkey. > > I give two thumbs down to the network science correspondent > who produced the CETI segment. The guy acts like a total > goofball, literally squealing with joy when Redding shows > him CETI's in-lab hot water heater. Later, he claims to be > skeptical, and then in the next breath peels of a list of > CETI PR points. Then he describes the ANS as the "bastion of > conservative" nuclear physics. Uh, I wish he would tell > us exactly what other type of established nuclear physics there is? > Since when does a "skeptical" science correspondent label the mainstream > scientists as a bastion of anything other than established science? > > ---- > Barry Merriman > Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program > Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math > email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 05:07:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA28172; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 05:00:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 05:00:11 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:56:45 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: Radioactivity In-Reply-To: <339F7F70.29B5 math.ucla.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"K3ik03.0.6u6.AJ-dp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8190 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Vo., Please study and consider US PTO nos. 4,961,880 and 5,076,971 Wm. Barker. A few years ago we called the patent atty and got in touch with Barker and his brother. With their blessing we ran a verification of their work. The results we got agreed with the patent data. The general idea is the Coulomb barrier is altered and radioactive decay rates can be altered. All the nuclear math is in the patents. JHS PS: Save for the fact radioactive materials are used, and one should NEVER work with them unless the control and skill levels are there, the process is easy, simple and effective. The additional skill level requires knowledge of high voltage safety, measurement of high voltage, measurement of radioactivity. Should you be interested in this work please contact me. A kit can be obtained, not including radioactive material. J. H. Schnurer From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 05:12:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA28694; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 05:07:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 05:07:56 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970612080232.006ec3b4 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (32) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:03:25 +0000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: 1997 IECEC Cc: Elliot Kennel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"KiFGB.0.G07.RQ-dp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8191 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:45 PM 6/12/97 +0900, you wrote: > I'm wondering whether there will be a session at the 1997 >Interntational Energy Conversion Engineering Conference on Cold Fusion, and >whether there are any significant papers expected. Does anybody have any >information? > >Best regards, >Elliot Kennel >Sapporo Japan > >Good news. Elliot: IECEC-97 The American Institute of Chemical Engineers (AIChE) runs the 32nd Intersociety Energy Conversion Engineering Conference. The IECEC provides a forum to present and discuss engineering aspects of energy conversion, advanced energy conversion systems and devices, energy utilization and efficiency, environmental issues, and policy impacts on the research, development and implementation of energy systems. The IECEC is sponsored by six participating societies: the AIChE, the American Nuclear Society (ANS), the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE), the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA), the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME), and the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE). Session 52: Innovative Concepts I - New Concepts I Session 66: Innovative Concepts II - New Concepts II Session 77: Innovative Concepts III - Cold Fusion Results Session 89: Innovative Concepts IV - Additional Concepts ---------------------------------------------------------- Session 77: Innovative Concepts III - Cold Fusion Results ---------------------------------------------------------- 97221 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Thermal Energy Production From Electrolytic Cells (The Patterson Power Cell) D. Cravens and P. Bailey 97538 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Anomalous Heat and Helium Production Using Palladium-Boron Alloys in Heavy Water M. Miles, K. Johnson, and M. Imam 97009 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Biphasic Behavior in Thermal Electrolytic Generators Using Nickel Cathodes M. Swartz 97120 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Thermal and Nuclear Events Associated with the Pd+D Codeposition S. Szpak and P.A. Mosier-Boss 97368 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Excess Heat and Unexpected Elements from Aqueous Electrolysis with Titanium and Palladium Cathodes J. Dash, R. Kopecek, and S. Miguet 97198 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Changes for Isotopic Distribution of the Elements on Palladium Cathode After Electrolyzed in D2O Solution T. Mizuno, T. Akimoto, K. Kurokawa, M. Kitaichi, K. Inoda, K. Azumi, S. Simokawa, T. Ohmori, and E. Enyo 97373 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Nuclear Transmutation Induced by Light Water Electrolysis With Gold Electrode T. Ohmori, T. Mizuno, and M. Enyo Elliot, hope that helps. Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 05:12:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA28748; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 05:08:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 05:08:03 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:04:48 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: Elliot Subject: x-ray film In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970612003244.00667454 sparc1> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cTz4n.0.217.YQ-dp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8192 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Vo and Elliot, I have worked with autoradiography in lab setting with low level emitters. This was P-32 incorporated by living organisms and subsequently extracted from same. The P-32 was the radio-tracer tag. We were looking at 10 neg 12 to 10 neg 14 moles of C amp, cyclic adenosine monophosphate. Some general notes, questions: Some exposures were two weeks. What are the specifications of the film used from India? Flourescent materials are often used to enhance. MCP intensifiers can be used. JHS On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, Elliot Kennel wrote: > Recently I've found out from R. K. Rout that their x-ray film > experiment has success only with a certain type of film. Specifically, he > writes that "the X-ray film used by us to observe anomalous emission was > screen type polyster based 'INDU' medical X-ray, (From Hindustan Photo films > India Ltd.)." They have not had success with Kodak film or dental x-ray > film apparently. > We have not had success with the Rout et al experiment, though the > Indians have achieved 100% reproducibility. Apparently, the type of film is > the likely reason cited by Rout. I am interested if others in the community > have tried the Rout experiment and what the results have been, and what > types of film were tried. > Meantime, I am going to try to buy some Indian x-ray film, though I > expect that this might take some time. > > Best regards, > Elliot > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 05:16:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA21621; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 05:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 05:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:10:02 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: 1997 IECEC In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970612080232.006ec3b4 world.std.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"zWvG93.0.lH5.BW-dp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8193 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear M. Schwartz, And Vo., Is there still a direct energy conversion and some sort of innovative energy conversion and-or production conference[s]? J From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 06:46:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA08397; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 06:35:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 06:35:07 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 21:34:35 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970612213453.36a79be8 po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8 po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mpower Subject: Re: Frank's Tiny Comets Resent-Message-ID: <"5cqUn2.0.332.Ai_dp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8194 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Kurt Johmann posted the following (edited for brevity) at 17:43 1997.06.11 -0400: >On page 1333, the latest issue of Science (May 30, vol 276) has a >one-page "Research News" article about Frank's comets (roughly 20 >"house-sized" comets are hitting the Earth per minute according to >Frank's interpretation of the satellite data). > ... > >: could it be that >Frank and his satellite have stumbled onto the sprinkler system of the >gods -- or whatever you want to call any hypothesized intra-solar >nonhuman super civilization that is normally hidden from our view -- by >which they keep their garden watered? > Let us pray they don't turn it off... MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM * http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 (-latest update: 1997.06.10.12:30-) * **************************************************************************** ********************* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 06:50:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA03846; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 06:47:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 06:47:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: 12 Jun 97 09:39:52 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: vortex-l Subject: Birthday Wishes Message-ID: <970612133951_76016.2701_JHC38-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"OcBnk2.0._x.Ut_dp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8195 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gnorts, Vorts, We should extend birthday wishes to James Clerk Maxwell tomorrow. He would have been 166 had he survived. Without his discoveries, many of us wouldn't have jobs. Interesting to note that, also born in 1831, was Helena Petrovna Blavatsky (nee von Hahn). Madame Blavatsky was born in Russia, became an American citizen in 1878, and was cremated in Surrey, England in 1891 and is best known for her master work "The Secret Doctrine". Both people were very concerned with differing aspects of the aether. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 07:55:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA17526; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:52:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:52:12 -0700 From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970612103605_-793294037 emout16.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: give Patterson more credit please!! Resent-Message-ID: <"N8MhW3.0.mH4.Rq0ep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8196 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I heard Jim Patterson (the grandfather) speak at the ANS meeting. This type of questions you are asking would be relavant if Jim were an uneducated dope. He is NOT!! His ion exhange notations were elaborate. His mention of how he sulfonated the reson beads and stressed the lattice so that the ion exchange beads would accept the heavy metalic ions was exacting. He has an elaborate method of post firing the beads as part of the loading and sulfunation process. I am quite SURE that he knows where to put the gagger counter. Even I would know that! Frank Znidarsic From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 08:04:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA19539; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:00:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:00:06 -0700 Date: 12 Jun 97 10:57:39 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Size of oil industry? Message-ID: <970612145738_72240.1256_EHB55-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"AAGT63.0.Dn4.rx0ep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8197 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex For an article I am writing, I am looking for an estimate of the total size of the oil industry. I would like to know the approximate total number of people employed and total annual revenues, in the U.S. and worldwide. This is a complicated issue, because, for example, Saudi Aramco sells oil to U.S. Oil companies which sell it consumers, so an estimate might show the same oil three times, as a credit, a debit, and another credit. I have a variety of sources of information including: D. Yergin, "The Prize: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money & Power," (Simon & Schuster, 1990) Scientific American Special Issue, Energy for Planet Earth, September 1990 Petroleum Engineering Lab., U. Tokyo, http://www.kelly.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/sci.geo.petroleum.html. (This has many good links to other resources). World Oil, www.gulfpub.com Petroleum & Energy Intelligence Weekly, Inc. (PIW), www.piwpubs.com PIW publishes expensive newsletters and factbooks which would probably answer my questions, but I don't want to pay hundreds of dollars and I cannot locate a copy in Atlanta, Georgia. The PIW home page has a listing of the top 35 oil companies. I can look up the earnings of the U.S. and European companies. Information on others, like the INOC (Iranian National Oil Company) is not readily available. From the Saudi Arabia home page (www.saudi.net) I have estimated the size of the world's largest oil company, Saudi Aramco. The home page says they have approximately 50,000 workers, and oil represents 33% of the GDP, or $37 billion in 1992. According to World Oil, they now produce 7.9 million barrels per day, which must be worth $52 billion per year, at $18 per barrel. World Oil quotes total world production from OPEC, OECD, and non-OECD as 75.56 million barrels per day, which must be worth approximately $496 billion per year. That is the cost of raw materials for the industry. I have no idea how much the processed output -- fuel and feedstocks -- are worth. Does anyone know of a concise, authoritative book or home page with an estimate of total industry size? - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 08:18:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA23264; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:15:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:15:18 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Magnetocaloric Effects & Pendulums Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:14:34 +0000 Message-ID: <19970612151432.AAA9334 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"s8Qnv.0.Mh5.4A1ep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8198 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Rick: I once had (before the the nieces-nephews and grandkids broke it) one of those "Office Pacifier" gadgets that has five steel balls about 25 mm diameter suspended from a gallows such that the balls were aligned in contact. You could raise one or more balls and release it-them and watch the conservation of momentum effects as they click-clacked back and forth. I once laid a "Cow Magnet" which is about 2 1/2" long and 5/8" diameter with hemispherical ends (these are placed it the cow's stomach to collect nails and baling wire) on top of these and got some really weird sound and momentum effects. Used to be able to get them dirt cheap at slaughter houses and rendering plants. The only ones I've seen other than that was at a store where some entrepreneurs claimed that if you put them on the side of the carburetor of your car you got better gas mileage.(if you were heading North?) The one ones I tried, kept pointing at gas stations. Ended up (so to speak) using one as a suppository, couldn't sit on steel chairs, though. Sure improves your sense of direction. A fun experiment with the magnets is to put a good sized needle on a thread about 18" long and let it swing over the end of the magnet. All kinds of oscillations and torque effects of the needle. I guess if the needle was long enough the low frequncy EM fields could come into play here, also. In theory, if you got things right this thing could run indefinitely. A real swinging heat engine? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 08:42:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA21353; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970612083745.00b3c8fc mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:37:47 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-dUCW2.0.YD5.hV1ep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8199 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think Greg has taken the SMOT to the Australian "bush" to eliminate such possibilities. I have not heard from him anything about the SMOT's performance being affected. Also the EM energy would need to be rectified in some way in order to provide a net force vector in one direction. I do not see any such rectification mechanism in SMOT. At 06:42 PM 6/9/97 +0000, you wrote: >I think the "artifact-(s)" if not the 1/2 gauss geomagnetic field is >in the background electromagnetic waves, (or both). > >The energy flow AT ANY FREQUENCY is: E^2/(e/u)^1/2 watts/meter^2 or in >vacuum E^2/377. E is volts/meter and 377 is the impedance of space 377 ohms. > >0.05 volts/meter is a pretty powerful radio signal,but, the 50-60 hertz from >the wiring in a building or power lines can exceed this. > >The energy density, watts/meter^3 from the E field is e*E^2/2 joule/meter^3 >from the H field u*H^2/2 watts/meter^3 = u[(e/u)^1/2]^2/2 = e*E^2/2. > >With all of the "background" electromagnetic energy floating around with >a constant of (x) watts/meter^2/hertz if this effects the ball at the >"null point" enough to supply the keep-going energy, "free energy" but not >perpetual motion per se, and no "new physics". :-) > > The EM penetration into the ball the equivalent depth of penetration; >D, to where the current falls off to 1/2 its vacuum value >= [1/(pi)*f*u*(rho)]^1/2 where f is frequency hertz, >u is the permeability of the ball, and (rho) is the conductivity of >the ball, mhos/meter. > >I think that when one gets through wading through this the energy source >for the "roll" will be explained. > >Regards, Frederick > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 08:53:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA22977; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:42:27 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Frank's Tiny Comets Resent-Message-ID: <"1Dbs5.0.ic5.qb1ep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8200 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 9:34 PM 6/12/97, Mpower wrote: >Kurt Johmann posted the following (edited for brevity) at 17:43 1997.06.11 >-0400: >>On page 1333, the latest issue of Science (May 30, vol 276) has a >>one-page "Research News" article about Frank's comets (roughly 20 >>"house-sized" comets are hitting the Earth per minute according to >>Frank's interpretation of the satellite data). >> >... >> >>: could it be that >>Frank and his satellite have stumbled onto the sprinkler system of the >>gods -- or whatever you want to call any hypothesized intra-solar >>nonhuman super civilization that is normally hidden from our view -- by >>which they keep their garden watered? >> > >Let us pray they don't turn it off... Let us pray they don't turn it up ... In fact maybe the high observed rate is *due* to a recent increase in small comet density. Portents of a nemesis swarm? Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 08:58:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA24263; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: 12 Jun 97 11:04:25 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: vortex Subject: Low-level rollaway Message-ID: <970612150425_100433.1541_BHG117-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"xaGcD.0.zw5.Gk1ep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8201 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To:Vortex Gnorts, I thought that perhaps Greg and others might be interested in something "we" just found out. At present we have a bit of a problem because the magnets we have (40*10*4mm, arranged into blocks 80*10*16mm) are cast and fired rather than cut to shape. So they are bent and difficult to stack properly. But Soo was working on a single-ramp set up (we use 0.5" high, 0.5" outside width aluminium channel) and found no difficulty in getting a rollaway onto another piece of the same channel, using the S-curve exit that Greg defined. The catch is that the initial (flat) part of the ramp has to be 1mm above the piece of channel onto which it rolls away. So there can be no claim of an anomaly in that specific arrangement, but we were very interested to see that Greg's stated requirement of a clear increase of several mm and a *vertical* fall away from the last ramp doesn't seem to be necessary. Instead, one would only need to make sure that the *previous* ramp achieved 1mm (or possibly 1.5mm) from the initial start point. The last ramp could then be made with an S-curve exit and a rollaway at the initial level would be possible. Obviously, if the previous ramps achieved more than the 1.0 - 1.5mm, then you could have a sloping-downward rollaway. Unfortunately, the magnet arrays she was using are the best (least bent magnets) we have, and I doubt whether we can get a good lift from previous ramps. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 09:27:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA27467; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:17:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:17:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 00:15:58 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970613001622.422fc7c8 po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8 po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mpower Subject: Re: Size of oil industry? Resent-Message-ID: <"Sw_Tu.0.0j6.342ep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8202 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell posted the following (edited for brevity) at 10:57 1997.06.12 EDT: >To: Vortex > >For an article I am writing, I am looking for an estimate of the total size of >the oil industry. I work in an industry primarily dependent on the oil industry: over 80% of our work is performed directly and exclusively for the oil industry. Do we count ? If so, the numbers you will end up with will be mind-boggling. A project like that probably needs funding to get done, and it would take a year or two to sort through just who gets counted and who doesn't. Another year or so would be necessary simply to gather the >correct< financial information. For instance: In one single project ast year, We employed over 2000 nationals from three different labour contractors. Of those labour contractors, two had no other projects aside from ours, During the course of a year our project bankrolled a number of business expansions in the region of our work. Three businesses (commercial boat sales and rental, food catering, and down-river fuel & water delivery) were developed simply to deal with the opportunity our needs provided. What portion of these revenues is accorded to 'oil industry' ? You would need to review all the records. How many other oil 'primary-dependency' industries are there ? Probably thirty or forty, I would guess... good luck Jed MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM * http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 (-latest update: 1997.06.10.12:30-) * **************************************************************************** ********************* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 09:47:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA01686; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:40:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 16:39:10 +0000 Message-ID: <19970612163908.AAA17313 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"nGGGT.0.GQ.GQ2ep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8203 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:37 PM 6/12/97 +0000, Epitaxy wrote: > > >I think Greg has taken the SMOT to the Australian "bush" to eliminate such >possibilities. I have not heard from him anything about the SMOT's >performance being affected. No beating around the "bush" here. :-) The magnetocaloric physics say that the heat and magnetism picked up by the ball in the strong PM field diminishes when it leaves the strong field. Probably convection heat/magnetism loss due to air currents. There is only about 1 degree K temperature rise involved in adiabatic magnetization of the strongest magnets. However, when the adiabatic demagnetization technique is used near absolute zero, temperatures as low as 1E-5 deg K, or less, can be attained. > >Also the EM energy would need to be rectified in some way in order to >provide a net force vector in one direction. I do not see any such >rectification mechanism in SMOT. > Demagnetization by A.C. EM fields is standard practice. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 10:07:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA11764; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:02:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:02:15 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:20:42 -0500 (GMT) From: Carlos Henry Castano To: Carlos Henry Castano Cc: grupo de discusion Subject: "DENDRITES questions" Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"p2bZm2.0.et2.Lk2ep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8204 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Vortexers: Hi all, I have a 21st Century, Science & Technology Magazine, there are a paper of the ICCF2 in Como, Italy. In this article is showed a photograph took for Bockris of a palladium electrode surface and a structure (dendrite) like cauliflower, Bockris said that may be this structure are connected with the excess of heat production. In this moment I have available a electronic microscope, and I want look for some type of structure post-run in my cathode (Nickel Fibrex). Can you recommend me how do I look for this?, do you know what type of structure can I find?, do you know any set of papers that told me about of this subject? or have you experience about this regards? Best wishes, Carlos Henry Casta~o Giraldo Lab. Electroquimica Universidad Nacional de Colombia, Sede Medellin. p.s. I find a article's abstract, "Electrochemical fusion: a mechanism speculation. J. Electroanal. Chem. 280 (1990) 207" in the Britz bibliography, someone known this article? ________________________________________________________________________ My actual E-mail is dinamic but temporal, I have other permanent E-mail, if you e-mail rebound please try again to: chcastan hotmail.com ________________________________ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 10:11:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA14316; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:08:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:08:35 -0700 From: hamdix verisoft.com.tr Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 10:36:30 -0500 Message-Id: <9705201536.AB34570 rainbow.verisoft.com.tr> Resent-Message-ID: <"Vf57u3.0.bV3.Iq2ep" mx1> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8205 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 11:18:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA25573; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:07:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:07:29 -0700 Date: 12 Jun 97 13:34:51 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Size of oil industry? Message-ID: <970612173451_72240.1256_EHB104-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"gdPNY3.0.RF6.Wh3ep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8206 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex I want an estimate of the total size of the oil industry, in people in money. Mpower asks: I work in an industry primarily dependent on the oil industry: over 80% of our work is performed directly and exclusively for the oil industry. Do we count ? Nope. Just the oil companies. I would not even include oil-well equipment suppliers who are 100% dependent on the oil companies. If so, the numbers you will end up with will be mind-boggling. Yes, even without the derivative and dependent companies the numbers are mind-boggling. And this is just for oil; I have not looked at coal. (But some companies deal in both.) Here are the numbers for the top 10 European and American companies: Annual Gross Company Revenues $billions Employees ----------- ------------------ --------- Shell Oil 32 20,463 Exxon 132 79,000 Mobil 80 43,000 BP 45 not listed Chevron 43 40,820 Amoco 29 not listed Texaco 36 28,547 Elf Aquit. 208 85,500 PDV America 130 5,905 ARCO 19 22,800 Total: $754 326,035 (listed) A project like that probably needs funding to get done . . . Oh, I don't think so. I expect some handbook or DoE study will have an estimate. I could find out the total size of the computer industry more easily, because I am more familliar with the information resources. How many other oil 'primary-dependency' industries are there ? Probably thirty or forty, I would guess... I can't imagine how many there would be. I just look for industry sector codes 2911 PETROLEUM REFINING and 1311 CRUDE PETROLEUM & NATURAL GAS. You would need to review all the records. Not me! I believe whatever Dun & Broadstreet and the SEC say. The authorities are always right. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 11:40:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA29822; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:34:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:34:32 -0700 Date: 12 Jun 97 14:09:38 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Size of oil industry? Message-ID: <970612180938_72240.1256_EHB109-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"Oukl62.0.pH7.s44ep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8207 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex Oops. I made a mistake on the table. The numbers for PDV (Petroleos de Venezuela) America were 12.95, not 129.5. That's the U.S. subsidiary. The main company, PDVSA (Petroleos de Venezuela, S.A.) has $26 billion in sales and employs 48,109 people. So the table should read: Annual Gross Company Revenues $billions Employees ----------- ------------------ --------- Shell Oil 32 20,463 Exxon 132 79,000 Mobil 80 43,000 BP 45 not listed Chevron 43 40,820 Amoco 29 not listed Texaco 36 28,547 Elf Aquit. 208 85,500 PDV 26 48,109 ARCO 19 22,800 Total: $650 368,239 (listed) The smallest of the top 35 oil companies is YPF Sociedad Anonima, with $5 billion in sales. It is the biggest company in Argentina. Exxon, formerly called Standard Oil, is the biggest U.S. oil company, and the oldest. It was founded by John D. Rockefeller in 1865. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 12:01:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA02760; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:58:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:58:51 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Scudder,Henry J" To: "Frederick J. Sparber" , Vortex-L Subject: RE: Magnetocaloric Effects & Pendulums Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:54:00 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uRDhf3.0.tg.gR4ep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8208 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Frederick I have two magnetic gadgets on my desk, One is a decision maker. It has a magnet embedded in a globe suspended from a wire above six magnets in a circle below the globe. The segments are labled yes, no, quit, try again, maybe, go to lunch. The south pole of the circle magnets face the north pole of the pendulum globe with the north poles in the center. When you swing the globe, the pendulum oscillates wildly in three dimensions, evenually settling over its suggested decision, I find it very useful here at Rocketdyne. The other is an O/U type device, with a magnet on a circle which oscillates around a central axis making like a pendulum. It also has a pair of magnetic porpoises in an inner circle which spin about an offset axis, and make an interesting compound motion. When you set the pendulum swinging, it keeps going and going and.... going, like a certain bunny I know. It definitely appears O/U, but underneath, there is a secret pocket with a battery. If the battery is removed, it eventually stops. I think there is a circuit inside which senses the approach of the magnet, and puts a current pulse through a coil which kicks the pendulum magnet slightly, just enough to keep it going. It keeps people here entertained for hours, and one guy uses the decision maker to decide which of his girl friends to go out with. Hank Scudder ---------- From: Frederick J. Sparber To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Magnetocaloric Effects & Pendulums Date: Thursday, June 12, 1997 8:14AM Rick: I once had (before the the nieces-nephews and grandkids broke it) one of those "Office Pacifier" gadgets that has five steel balls about 25 mm diameter suspended from a gallows such that the balls were aligned in contact. You could raise one or more balls and release it-them and watch the conservation of momentum effects as they click-clacked back and forth. I once laid a "Cow Magnet" which is about 2 1/2" long and 5/8" diameter with hemispherical ends (these are placed it the cow's stomach to collect nails and baling wire) on top of these and got some really weird sound and momentum effects. Used to be able to get them dirt cheap at slaughter houses and rendering plants. The only ones I've seen other than that was at a store where some entrepreneurs claimed that if you put them on the side of the carburetor of your car you got better gas mileage.(if you were heading North?) The one ones I tried, kept pointing at gas stations. Ended up (so to speak) using one as a suppository, couldn't sit on steel chairs, though. Sure improves your sense of direction. A fun experiment with the magnets is to put a good sized needle on a thread about 18" long and let it swing over the end of the magnet. All kinds of oscillations and torque effects of the needle. I guess if the needle was long enough the low frequncy EM fields could come into play here, also. In theory, if you got things right this thing could run indefinitely. A real swinging heat engine? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 12:19:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA06880; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:16:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:16:20 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970612150425_100433.1541_BHG117-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:14:59 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Low-level rollaway Resent-Message-ID: <"_8du.0.Qh1.3i4ep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8209 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris - > > At present we have a bit of a problem because the magnets we > have (40*10*4mm, arranged into blocks 80*10*16mm) are > cast and fired rather than cut to shape. So they are bent and > difficult to stack properly. Would it help to use clay packed with iron filings/powdered-rust as a gap-filling mortar when laying your magnetic 'bricks'? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 12:26:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA27908; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:20:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:20:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970612083745.00b3c8fc mail.localaccess.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:17:51 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"IQaha3.0.-p6.Zl4ep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8210 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy: > Also the EM energy would need to be rectified in > some way in order to provide a net force vector in > one direction. I do not see any such rectification > mechanism in SMOT. Maybe rectification isn't needed if the RF energy is coming into play by helping to re-randomize domains. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 12:27:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA08255; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:24:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:24:13 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970612151432.AAA9334 LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:22:53 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Magnetocaloric Effects & Pendulums Resent-Message-ID: <"OKY_Y1.0.v02.Rp4ep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8211 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Frederick - > A fun experiment with the magnets is to put a good > sized needle on a thread about 18" long and let it > swing over the end of the magnet. All kinds of > oscillations and torque effects of the needle. Been some writeups lately about how such motions are very chaotic too. Interesting territory here. I still want to find a definitive test that shows that this thermomagnetic effect or whatever it's called, is or isn't the source of mysterious energy that appears to drive a SMOT. It's a nice idea, but does it apply to reality? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 12:48:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA14174; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:46:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:46:12 -0700 From: "John Steck" Message-Id: <9706121439.ZM20011 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:39:17 -0500 In-Reply-To: Rick Monteverde "Re: Magnetocaloric Effects & Pendulums" (Jun 12, 2:17pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetocaloric Effects & Pendulums Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"mmuKK3.0.JT3.385ep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8212 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Jun 12, 2:17pm, Rick Monteverde wrote: > Subject: Re: Magnetocaloric Effects & Pendulums > Frederick - > > > A fun experiment with the magnets is to put a good > > sized needle on a thread about 18" long and let it > > swing over the end of the magnet. All kinds of > > oscillations and torque effects of the needle. Seen something similar as an old wives tale on how to tell how many and what sex children you are going to have. Tie the needle and stick it into the eraser end of a wooden pencil. Suspended over the wrist. Oscillations along the arm are girls?, perpendicular to the arm are boys? There is usually a definitive pause between movements to count how many. Circular oscillations when all have been accounted for. Good fun at parties. My guess is a weak field interaction between the graphite in the pencil and the iron in the blood in the nearby arteries. Of course no one ever wants to really know why it happens.... 8^) -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From FZNIDARSIC aol.com Thu Jun 12 12:49:29 1997 Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com (emout05.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.96]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA04240; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:49:13 -0700 (PDT) From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Received: (from root localhost) by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id PAA07017; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:43:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:43:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970612154314_-793269856 emout05.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com, CldFusion@aol.com, billb@eskimo.com, dcarney connect-me.net, 76570.2270@compuserve.com, 72240.1256 compuserve.com, zettsjs@ml.wpafb.af.mil, RMCarrell@aol.com, Puthoff aol.com, fstenger@interlaced.net, 101544.702@compuserve.com, RVargo1062 aol.com, peter@itim.org.soroscj.ro, mcfee@xdiv.lanl.gov, reed zenergy.com, JEFFJ@ep.state.az.us, jewel@sgi.net, KAYOPJ@aol.com, herman college.antioch.edu, Lentin@imaginet.fr, barry@math.ucla.edu, kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp, bssimon@helix.ucsd.edu, little@eden.com, noever webtv.net Subject: Picture of Tampere experiment at Marshall Status: RO X-Status: Picture of the Tampere gravitational experiments at NASA Marshall Theory: Matter's frequencies are reduced within an electron condensation. Application to Cold Fusion, "It softens up the nucleus!" Pick rocket center 1/2 way down my home page. Frank Znidarsic fznidarsic aol.com 481 Boyer St. http://members.aol.com/FZNIDARSIC/index.html Johnstown, Pa. 15906 Automatic links: Home_Page Send_E-mail From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 12:53:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA04330; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:49:38 -0700 (PDT) From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:43:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970612154314_-793269856 emout05.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com, CldFusion@aol.com, billb@eskimo.com, dcarney connect-me.net, 76570.2270@compuserve.com, 72240.1256 compuserve.com, zettsjs@ml.wpafb.af.mil, RMCarrell@aol.com, Puthoff aol.com, fstenger@interlaced.net, 101544.702@compuserve.com, RVargo1062 aol.com, peter@itim.org.soroscj.ro, mcfee@xdiv.lanl.gov, reed zenergy.com, JEFFJ@ep.state.az.us, jewel@sgi.net, KAYOPJ@aol.com, herman college.antioch.edu, Lentin@imaginet.fr, barry@math.ucla.edu, kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp, bssimon@helix.ucsd.edu, little@eden.com, noever webtv.net Subject: Picture of Tampere experiment at Marshall Resent-Message-ID: <"lILJV3.0.a31.DB5ep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8213 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Picture of the Tampere gravitational experiments at NASA Marshall Theory: Matter's frequencies are reduced within an electron condensation. Application to Cold Fusion, "It softens up the nucleus!" Pick rocket center 1/2 way down my home page. Frank Znidarsic fznidarsic aol.com 481 Boyer St. http://members.aol.com/FZNIDARSIC/index.html Johnstown, Pa. 15906 Automatic links: Home_Page Send_E-mail From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 13:24:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA08943; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:15:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:15:40 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 16:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970612161407_1309020073 emout10.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Frank's Tiny Comets Resent-Message-ID: <"7eWiQ3.0.dB2.cZ5ep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8214 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: What about earth orbit satellites, space shuttle, ect., why don't they get hit with these snow balls? Butch LaFonte From herman antioch-college.edu Thu Jun 12 14:33:15 1997 Received: from antioch-college.edu (college.antioch.edu [192.131.123.11]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA00503; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:33:01 -0700 Received: by antioch-college.edu (SMI-8.6/1.63) id RAA23987; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:28:49 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:28:48 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: vortex-l eskimo.com, CldFusion@aol.com, billb@eskimo.com, dcarney connect-me.net, 76570.2270@compuserve.com, 72240.1256 compuserve.com, zettsjs@ml.wpafb.af.mil, RMCarrell@aol.com, Puthoff aol.com, fstenger@interlaced.net, 101544.702@compuserve.com, RVargo1062 aol.com, peter@itim.org.soroscj.ro, mcfee@xdiv.lanl.gov, reed zenergy.com, JEFFJ@ep.state.az.us, jewel@sgi.net, KAYOPJ@aol.com, Lentin imaginet.fr, barry@math.ucla.edu, kennel@nhelab.iae.or.jp, bssimon helix.ucsd.edu, little@eden.com, noever@webtv.net, John Schnurer Subject: ReNO CLUE ??? : Picture of Tampere experiment at Marshall In-Reply-To: <970612154314_-793269856 emout05.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Where is the picture? Can you clearly describe how to get to it? Looked at your site... no clue as to picture. On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 FZNIDARSIC aol.com wrote: > Picture of the Tampere gravitational experiments at NASA Marshall > > Theory: Matter's frequencies are reduced within an electron condensation. > > Application to Cold Fusion, "It softens up the nucleus!" > > Pick rocket center 1/2 way down my home page. > > Frank Znidarsic fznidarsic aol.com > 481 Boyer St. http://members.aol.com/FZNIDARSIC/index.html > Johnstown, Pa. 15906 > > > Automatic links: > Home_Page > Send_E-mail > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 18:22:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA00020; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 18:21:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 18:21:19 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970613011755.00667454 sparc1> X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:17:55 +0900 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Elliot Kennel Subject: CETI Radioactivity Resent-Message-ID: <"Wsdk92.0.C.E2Aep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8216 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry wrote: >>...How do you know the radiactive elements were not simply plating out ont the cathode, hence being removed from the region the counter was monitoring..." Gene replied: >>This obviously has been elaborately checked out. The radiation has NOT migrated ..<< Elliot's two cents: FWIW, I'm inclined to agree with Barry that more experimentation is required before CETI's claims will receive widespread acceptance. A Geiger counter measurement does not characterize what is being measured; and moreover particle radiation is easily decreased by adding additional shielding or additional distance from the detector. An experiment of this type is not very obvious at all. It is little more than a black box, and we know very little about what is happening inside it. A Geiger counter is about the most primitive radiation detector you can buy. They are easily spoofed, not suitable for a detailed radioactive assay, and I have a file cabinet full of erroneous radiation detection articles, most of which rely on poor measurements such as this. On the other hand, what CETI is claiming doesn't violate laws of physics, and there are at least a few credible physicists who are trying to step up to the task of modelling unconventional reaction pathways which MIGHT be consistent with the CETI results. So I don't think these results should be dismissed out of hand. It would be very desirable to allow a National Lab or similary qualified institute to do a DETAILED study of what is going on. As long there is an experiment with shoddy equipment and non-rigorous procedures, it will continue to rest in that murky gray area between fact and fiction. Best regards, Elliot Kennel Sapporo Japan From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 18:31:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA03061; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 18:30:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 18:30:04 -0700 Date: 12 Jun 97 21:28:25 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: ReNO CLUE ??? : Picture of Tampere experiment at Marshall Message-ID: <970613012825_76016.2701_JHC23-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"y4csU3.0.kl.RAAep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8217 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: J. Schnurer asks of FZ: >> Where is the picture? Can you clearly describe how to get to it? Looked at your site... no clue as to picture.<< Click on the square on the right side of the page, about two pages (scrolling) down. It says "space flight center" or something similar inside. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 19:07:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA11460; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 19:05:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 19:05:06 -0700 Date: 12 Jun 97 22:03:18 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: CETI Radioactivity Message-ID: <970613020317_76016.2701_JHC72-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"KYDzr.0.xo2.HhAep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8218 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: E. Kennel said: >> It would be very desirable to allow a National Lab or similary qualified institute to do a DETAILED study of what is going on<< Dr. Norm Olson, Metalurgist at Hanford was present for the test (as implied by the program) and said that they would test the remediation cell under controlled conditions in their lab. Something I thought interesting was that the ABC science reporter said that the DOE was "beating a path to their [CETI's] door". Isn't that ironic? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 19:28:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA16208; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 19:23:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 19:23:25 -0700 From: HLafonte aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:22:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970612222221_1991661300 emout02.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: test Resent-Message-ID: <"tEExP2.0.Az3.SyAep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8219 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: test From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 21:05:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA31941; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 20:50:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 20:50:27 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:45:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706130345.WAA27113 dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> From: aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki ) Subject: Question on UPI news item To: vortex-l eskimo.com Cc: aki ix.netcom.com Resent-Message-ID: <"JJTFA.0._o7.2ECep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8220 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: June 13, 1997 While browsing through Clarinet UPI international news items, There was an item about a North Korean Defector (Kim Dae-hoh) to S. Korea. He had worked at their atomic energy ministry in charge of uranium waste water. He defected in 1994. Aside from the defector's information that N. Korean missles were aimed at Tokyo, he declared that they had successfully developed "technologies to generate a nuclear explosion at incredibly low temperature." Cold Nuclear Fission Bombs!? Aside from the matter of, figuratively, having a gun at Tokyo's head, I wonder what this defector was talking about. There are hot fission and fusioneers out there. Any ideas? The defector doesn't sound like a top level scientist. -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 12 23:56:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA04090; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:53:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:53:08 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:51:35 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Size of oil industry? Resent-Message-ID: <"U4xPh1.0.q_.KvEep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8221 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >To: Vortex > >For an article I am writing, I am looking for an estimate of the total size of >the oil industry. I would like to know the approximate total number of people >employed and total annual revenues, in the U.S. and worldwide. [snip] > >Does anyone know of a concise, authoritative book or home page with an >estimate of total industry size? > >- Jed Here is some data the might at least be useful for checking puposes. The following projections and data were taken from the State of Alaska, Department of Revenue, "Revenue Sources Book, Spring 1997: Year 1996 1997 1998 1999 Supply MB/D 71.9 73.9 75.3 76.9 $/Barrel 17.76 20.80 18.44 18.34 Supply values are global and in millions of barrels per day, and average Market prices in $/barrel are averages for the West Coast, Gulf Coast, and Far East only. The 1996 values are actual and that data was from the International Energy Association. The projections were by the Alaska Department of Revenue, which has a very good computer model and top notch economists with a good track record for projecting oil revenue for the last 20 years. I know a little of the history of this because I helped write some of the code for the intial model back in 1977. The report is available at in acrobat format. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 00:06:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA05781; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 00:04:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 00:04:24 -0700 Date: 13 Jun 97 03:02:40 EDT From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Mail Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Message-ID: <970613070239_100060.173_JHB59-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"eEb_w2.0.BQ1.t3Fep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8222 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael, >> Now I tried making a jpeg file by a different technique; see if you can read this version. << I'm afraid your latest version has failed all of my decoders - 8 different types of graphics readers, so sorry again - I'm denied a peek at your masterpiece. I must be doing something wrong. I suppose your not pkzip-ing as well as jpg-ing which might just balls things up. Norman From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 00:13:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA06972; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 00:11:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 00:11:53 -0700 Date: 13 Jun 97 03:10:39 EDT From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Mail Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Message-ID: <970613071038_100060.173_JHB86-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"Mp5Os.0.si1.uAFep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8223 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dean, >> I notice you're using OzWin2. Do you have the box (in menus Config/General/CisMail) labeled 'Decode MIME' not checked << Yes I did that as soon as it was reported by the excellent Oz team. I also use XFER-PRO which tries a dozen or so decode systems, and another 7 graphics decoders. I even tried Coral and AmiPro as importers, but no-go. It is just not recognised by any of my lot. I have yet to see whether the file is zipped. Norman From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 00:30:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA16200; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 00:27:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 00:27:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970613002646.00b401ec mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 00:26:47 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"r-Lzf3.0.zy3.PPFep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8224 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Oh, C'mon, this is not a big problem. The Macintosh world uses the extension .JPEG the PC world uses the file extension .JPG. Just rename the file extension accordingly. I strongly recommend the shareware file viewer called ACDSee, for all of your picture viewing needs. (available in 32bit Win95 version) For the record, I had no problem viewing this file in Windows95 using the method above. This is elementary... At 03:02 AM 6/13/97 EDT, you wrote: >Michael, > >>> Now I tried making a jpeg file by a different technique; see if you can read >this version. << > >I'm afraid your latest version has failed all of my decoders - 8 different types >of graphics readers, so sorry again - I'm denied a peek at your masterpiece. I >must be doing something wrong. I suppose your not pkzip-ing as well as jpg-ing >which might just balls things up. > >Norman > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 02:04:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA22746; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 02:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 02:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706130902.EAA22040 dsm7.dsmnet.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Dean T. Miller" To: Vortex , Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 04:02:25 (-050 Subject: Re: Size of oil industry? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <970612145738_72240.1256_EHB55-1 CompuServe.COM> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Resent-Message-ID: <"WucYq.0.KZ5.ApGep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8225 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jed, > For an article I am writing, I am looking for an estimate of the total size of > the oil industry. I would like to know the approximate total number of people > employed and total annual revenues, in the U.S. and worldwide. You might try to find a current edition of the Oxford Economic Atlas of the World. I have the 4th edition printed in 1972 (got it cheap). It gives only the breakdown of material, not employment, for various energy segments, though it does have nice maps. -- Dean -- from Des Moines (KB0ZDF) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 03:22:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA22819; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 03:21:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 03:21:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199706131020.GAA18254 mail.enter.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Robert G. Flower" Organization: Applied Science Associates To: Mitchell Swartz , vortex-l@eskimo.com, Elliot Kennel Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:58:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: 1997 IECEC Reply-to: chronos enter.net Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.32.19970612080232.006ec3b4 world.std.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Resent-Message-ID: <"ielXz1.0.Ta5.eyHep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8226 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 12 Jun 97 at 8:03, vortex-l eskimo.com wrote: > Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:03:25 +0000 > To: vortex-l eskimo.com > From: Mitchell Swartz > Subject: Re: 1997 IECEC > Reply-to: vortex-l eskimo.com > The American Institute of Chemical Engineers (AIChE) runs > the 32nd Intersociety Energy Conversion Engineering Conference. The > IECEC provides a forum to present and discuss engineering aspects Mitchell, Thanx for info on IECEC97. What are the dates & location? Is there a web URL? Best regards, Bob Flower ======================================================= Robert G. Flower, Applied Science Associates Quality Control Engineering Instrumentation Systems - Technology Transfer ======================================================= From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 05:04:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA06030; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 05:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 05:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A135C7.50F4 microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 21:27:59 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT and Qfield page Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EbeFE3.0.7U1.9RJep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8227 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I have updated my web site with the QField software I use and the model files for the SMOT sims. There are TWO versions of QField around. One has a 200 node mesh limit (on the QField site) and the one on my site has a 500 node mesh limit. Hope this helps. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 06:08:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA12652; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 05:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 05:59:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Magnetocaloric Effects & Pendulums Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 01:19:57 +0000 Message-ID: <19970613011955.AAA11084 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"m0JFv3.0.W53.NGKep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8228 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:22 PM 6/12/97 +0000, Rick wrote: >Frederick: > >Been some writeups lately about how such motions are very chaotic too. >Interesting territory here. > >I still want to find a definitive test that shows that this thermomagnetic >effect or whatever it's called, is or isn't the source of mysterious energy >that appears to drive a SMOT. It's a nice idea, but does it apply to >reality? > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > One might try some temperature variations on the up-exit ramps, since the magnetocaloric effect; dT/dH = - [T/sp.heat]*DM/DT seems to suggest reversibility. A cold thermal shock of the ball on the track might show a different roll-away speed if the track is cooled with, say a dry ice and acetone mix. LN2 or LOX (from a medical oxygen store) might be a bit harder to come by? Respiratory patients that carry those little LOX Dewars around with them will vouch for the safety of LOX if handled with the usual safety precautions. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 06:08:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA13390; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:00:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:00:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: RE: Magnetocaloric Effects & Pendulums Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:10:01 +0000 Message-ID: <19970613080959.AAA15286 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"s8qU23.0._G3.vHKep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8232 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:54 PM 6/12/97 +0000, Hank Scudder wrote: >Frederick >I have two magnetic gadgets on my desk, One is a decision maker. It has >a magnet embedded in a globe suspended from a wire above six magnets in >a circle below the globe. The segments are labled yes, no, quit, try >again, maybe, go to lunch. The south pole of the circle magnets face the >north pole of the pendulum globe with the north poles in the center. >When you swing the globe, the pendulum oscillates wildly in three >dimensions, evenually settling over its suggested decision, I find it >very useful here at Rocketdyne. Perhaps things would go smoother in Washington if they used such devices? > >The other is an O/U type device, with a magnet on a circle which >oscillates around a central axis making like a pendulum. It also has a >pair of magnetic porpoises in an inner circle which spin about an offset >axis, and make an interesting compound motion. When you set the pendulum >swinging, it keeps going and going and.... going, like a certain bunny I >know. I thought that the Playboy Clubs had closed down. :-) >It definitely appears O/U, but underneath, there is a secret >pocket with a battery. If the battery is removed, it eventually stops. I >think there is a circuit inside which senses the approach of the magnet, >and puts a current pulse through a coil which kicks the pendulum magnet >slightly, just enough to keep it going. It keeps people here entertained >for hours, and one guy uses the decision maker to decide which of his >girl friends to go out with. The "attractive" ones, I would bet. I found that the downside of using the very powerful "Cow Magnets" for suppositories was the "pull" that you had with steel doors and especially getting stuck to the side of the refrigerator, also Siamese twinning effects that occurred in crowded places when others used them. > >Hank Scudder > Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 06:08:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA12859; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 05:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 05:59:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970612161407_1309020073 emout10.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:15:54 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Frank's Tiny Comets Resent-Message-ID: <"547JL3.0.q83.oGKep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8229 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Butch wrote: >What about earth orbit satellites, space shuttle, ect., why don't they get >hit with these snow balls? >Butch LaFonte They're delicate and they disintegrate at higher altitude than the level at which LEO craft like the Shuttle operate. GEO sats might be at risk, but - that's a lot of space, so a hit might be statistically pretty rare. Some apparently do punch down through the atmosphere though. An ice chunk was found in China recently that might have fallen from space. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 06:08:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA13182; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:00:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:00:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 18:44:03 -1000 To: Vortex-L From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Microwave plasmoids again (FWD) Resent-Message-ID: <"0K6iF1.0.VD3.THKep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8230 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gnorts - Seems soemone over on the Tesla list has had some spectacular success with the plasmoid experiments: ------------------------begin forewarded message-------------------- Reply-To: USA-TESLA list.usa.net Sender: USA Tesla List From: James P Moore To: Multiple recipients of list USA-TESLA Subject: Kitchen Cooked Ball Lightning X-Sender: jmoore condor.bcm.tmc.edu X-To: USA-TESLA list.usa.net Date: Thu, 12 Jun 97 17:33:17 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 At 03:59 AM 6/12/97 GMT, you wrote: >On Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:09:42 -0500, James P Moore >, you wrote: > >[snip] > >>Very interesting.... i wonder if Ralph was pullin our legs? > >Don't know just, I couldn't recreate his experiment. > >>If not, then >>we need more info on the type of his microwave, power rating, and if it >>had a rotating platform. Did your oven rotate? >NO, my oven is quit stationary on the kitchen counter as it ran;) >Yes, mine has a rotating platter in it. I however, placed the candle >and match very near the center of the platter. > > > jim >>I havn't tried it yet, but >>after your report is in stark conflict with Ralphs.... tonight is the night, >>for my trial run. My oven rotates, if this makes any difference. We'll see >>what mine does. later........... Well Jim I produced some amazing Simulated Ball Lightning last night! The Ralph protocol WORKS, well! I tried a small one inch tall candle, after removing the metal wick retainer at the bottom, and placed it in a small ceramic bowl, light it and place the MW on high. Watched for almost a minute, and nothing happens, as you reported. I was discouraged! My MW also has a rotating carousel, and so I removed that and tried again, and nothing! So... I placed a round wooden toothpick in a makeshift plastic holder, light it and cranked the MW on high, after watching for 10-15 seconds, things began to happen! First a little sputtering from the previously burn wood charcoal-flame interface zone.... then some brilliant white flashes from the charcoal, then ERUPTION..... BBBOOOOZZZUUUMMMM.... a purple sphere popped out of the white flash, and rose to the roof, and rolled around briefly, before being sucked toward the intake for the ventilation fan! This was stationary with no rotation, then the purple buzzzzing spheres began to erupt with more intensity and frequency, as the toothpick burned down. I was too involved in watching these plasmoid fire balls roll around the oven, to notice that the small wooden stick had burned into the plastic holder, and when that happened WOW, talk about plasma balls........... I thought that the oven might not withstand such a quantity of frolicking ionized plasma, pervading the domain, so I shut it off, and extinguished the weakly burning plastic. This was so exciting that I had to try variations in an attempt to understand what was happening, and why the candle did not work, but the wood did. Also the buzzzzing noise seemed to be coming from the Ionized Plasmoids, and not the transformer, but I could be wrong. After thinking a bit and deciding that carbon must have a key role to play in this phenomenon, I decided to take the small candle and poke a toothpick into the wax so that the wick and the wooden pick, were making contact. When I tried this, on a rotated plate, I got nicely space and somewhat smaller Plasmoids, and since the wax kept the wood going longer, I watched these things crawl all over the inside of the oven, and some even went across the ceiling and down the wall, before puffing out! This was great fun, but my mind was still cooking, so......... I kept thinking sooty smoke from the plastic was a good source but too toxic, wood which left a good matrix of carbon, was also a good fuel for the plasmoids, now what else could be used......? I set down for a while popped a top, and let the MW, cool down a bit, because when I felt the walls inside, they were very warm. After downing half my brew... I went for the old empty bag of charcoal briquettes that I had not thrown away after last weekends barbecued chicken. After shaking it a bit I inverted it over a large plate and obtained a nice quantity of simi- powdered carbon to play with, working on the hypothesis that vaporized carbon, was an underlying factor in obtaining good ionized Plasmoids. Tried placing the powdered carbon an a rotated and non-rotated plate, and nothing. Then I remembered what Ed had said about steel wool doing something in the MW. So I place a small dab of SW on the rotating plate fired up the HF-RF and the SW, began to sparkle a bit as it slowly burned, but no Synthetic Ball Lightning. You can guess what the next logical thing to do was............ FINISH THE BEER, right? NO..... I sprinkles the charcoal powder sparsely about on another dab of steel wool, with a small pile in the center, and fired up the MW on high again, in rotating mode. Well..... the wool began to burn, then I saw little white sparks popping out from various regions of the wool, and I assumed that these were specks of carbon that were ignited, by the combusting steel wool. Soon.... some Plasmoids began to materialize and buzz about the oven, as with the wood, but they became more vigorous and persisted longer before fading from existence, after the carbonized steel had burned for a while, the reaction continued to intensify, one of the Plasmoids must have lasted for 4-5sec, and was the size of not a golf ball... but an orange, and was very beautiful. This particular Plasmoid went to the top of the oven as usual after erupting, then crawled down the wall, and went back to the top and found a place near the front of the oven, by the door about 4 inches from my dumb-founded wide open eyes, then proceeded to remain stationary, and was quite spherical! It persisted for so long, that I was afraid that since it was remaining in one spot, that it would damage the MW, so I shut the experiment down! WOWWWW, what a site that one was!!! After examining the inside of the oven for damage from this most beautiful Ball Of Plasma, I did find a tiny spot that corresponded to it's favorite spot, and although most of the spot wiped off, there did appear to be the beginning of an electrically etched surface erosion in the porcelain coating or what ever it is on the inside of the oven. It looked almost like a tiny arc welded spot. Well after last night fun, I BELIEVE EVERY WORD THAT RALPH RELATED to the list!!! I do believe that vaporized or ionized carbon is a key factor in successfully creating these interesting Plasmoids, that may have a LOT in common with natural Ball Lightning? Tesla was rumored to use powder carbon, in his creation of Laboratory Ball Lightning. However, to my knowledge, nobody has ever reproduced his technique, in doing this. Now thanks to modern MW oven technology, maybe scientists can easily create and study these interesting Plasma phenomena, under controlled conditions, to find out more about the mystery of Ball Lightning, and other related plasma phenomena? This rarely observed phenomenon, is poorly documented, and even more poorly understood! Based on what little that I have observed last night.... I would bet that if a person could find a way to place a High Voltage carbon arc, inside a microwave chamber that some really awesome Laboratory Ball Lightning could be produced! By vaporization of carbon, by the HV arc, while in the electric field of a MW cavity! There also may be different MW frequencies that alter or enhance the properties of these interesting Plasmoid Phenomena? I hope that someone will want to study this in a truly scientific way, if it hasn't been done previously, and to my knowledge, it hasn't. IMO, there might be some useful information that might be obtained by a detailed scientific study of this interesting phenomenon! Ralph... you speak the TRUTH!!! ;) JPM -----------------------end message---------------------- - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 06:08:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA13367; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:00:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Magnetocaloric Effects & Pendulums Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:10:06 +0000 Message-ID: <19970613080959.AAB15286 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"gfe4K1.0.lG3.tHKep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8231 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:39 PM 6/12/97 +0000, John Steck wrote: > >Seen something similar as an old wives tale on how to tell how many and what >sex children you are going to have. Most children are, John. :-) >Tie the needle and stick it into the >eraser end of a wooden pencil. Suspended over the wrist. Oscillations along >the arm are girls?, perpendicular to the arm are boys? There is usually a >definitive pause between movements to count how many. Circular oscillations >when all have been accounted for. Good fun at parties. My guess is a weak >field interaction between the graphite in the pencil and the iron in the blood >in the nearby arteries. Going by this rationale, if your pulse rate is up, you should look forward to a very large family. Thank goodness for the pauses. :-) >Of course no one ever wants to really know why it >happens.... 8^) Technically, it's all in the wrist, perhaps? > >-- >John E. Steck >Prototype Tooling >Motorola Inc. > Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 06:12:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA17161 for billb@eskimo.com; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:12:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:12:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: eachus mitre.org Fri Jun 13 06:12:39 1997 Received: from mbunix.mitre.org (mbunix.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA17042 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spectre.mitre.org (spectre.mitre.org [129.83.61.124]) by mbunix.mitre.org (8.8.5/8.8.5/mitre.0) with ESMTP id JAA13381 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:11:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from blofeld (blofeld.mitre.org [129.83.63.79]) by spectre.mitre.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA08858 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:11:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970613091243.00969100 spectre.mitre.org> X-Sender: eachus spectre.mitre.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Old-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:12:43 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Robert I. Eachus" Subject: Re: Frank's Tiny Comets In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: vortex-l Status: RO X-Status: At 07:42 AM 6/12/97 -0800, Horace Hefner wrote: >In fact maybe the high observed rate is *due* to a recent increase in small >comet density. Portents of a nemesis swarm? I'd worry an awful lot more about Hale-Bopp as the first member of a Nemesis swarm--it was much bigger than the dinosaur killer... Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 10:28:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA16363; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A16873.7119 ro.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:34:11 -0500 From: "Patrick V. Reavis" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetocaloric Effects & Pendulums References: <19970612151432.AAA9334 LOCALNAME> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QLrvc1.0.U_3.1tNep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8233 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick J. Sparber wrote: > > Rick: > > > I once laid a "Cow Magnet" which is about 2 1/2" long and 5/8" diameter > with hemispherical ends (these are placed it the cow's stomach to collect > > Regards, Frederick Edmund Scientific has these listed in their catalog... mialto:info edsci.com Patrick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 10:41:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA14963; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:30:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:30:07 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:27:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Remi Cornwall To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Take note, pecking order: estab->CF->PM Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"LfHXo.0.gf3.UEOep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8234 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Naughts Vorts, (included at bottom email to Stefan) I haven't exactly been lurking - I 'unsubscribed'. I had a glimpse from the zip files at the web pages. Still lots of traffic, not much progress ahey? I'm not going to do the angry young man bit, but, pm is regarded as something of a joke? Well in comparison to the rest of you (SMOTers included) we have made astounding progress:- We've (Bauer and I) have isolated that bit of inconsistency in theory which points to pm We know how to do key (Gee whiz?), no debate, experiments not 'coffee table prattle, let's fit curves and interpret the data' type or let's grease the runners to reduce the friction - there it's pm in the limit. We now have experimental facilities and know how to do key paradox busting experiments. You're just going to have to get used to it. pm is possible - we will prove it so. Forget the persons, presentation manners, personalities, politics, old school ties, battles etc. look at the science and adapt. (After thought, If you don't, I don't give a sh*t! A thing exists whether you like it or not. We'll turn you TRUE green, not with envy I hope but with truly green technology). Missing you already, Gimme progress, Remi. Forwarded message, From: Remi Cornwall To: harti harti.com Subject: Web publication Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Dear Stefan, I got a copy of internet assistant from microsoft.com. Its easy to use but still drops some greek mathematical symbols and can't seem to convert word drawing objects to .gif - the opened html file just has blanks where the drawings should be. How do you do it, please can you tell me? By the way, how is Bauer doing? Has he completed his experiments? I seemed to have finally found a base where there are facilities and expertise to do experiments in London. Yes, vortex finally made me flip with all the SMOT postings. They must have a theory/ approach to believe in their experimental setup. This they must post in paper form or web site so that people can refer and design experiments and extend the theory. It all smacks of amateurism and tinkering - how the hell if they don't have some theory can they dismiss experimental noise and problems/non-idealities such as friction if they don't know what is relevant from the static? ..... After thought: just what do you believe is possible? Just what effect have you seen that others haven't and makes you believe you can get energy from magnets? Are conservative fields the wrong starting point - what have you seen, what is your angle/belief? When I started, I was told to keep it simple, extract the very essence of it and try and prove this by experiment. Why all the postings, why all the volume? It's hard to keep track with all that noise. ....... In my mocking of them I kept stressing the need for theory/approach to back experiment and evidence of progress. CF has an approach (cram hydrogen into a lattice) and competing theories plus many dubious experimental results after 8 years (? correct me if I'm wrong, I'd still like to buy a CF heater and power the block, - block of metal the thing is standing on, sorry :-) (After thought: I won't say anything about hot fusion - they are Gods and not to be challenged) Now, in comparision, the heat recycling brigade (pm) have made astounding progress. We have VERY STRONG theory backed up with known experiments and understood phenomenoma and we seek to go that further step. There's Bauer and myself, I have approached the matter in a more general way than Bauer. He's suspected p.m. for 2 years, me 1.5 years. We both have easy to design, justify key experiments to do which will prove beyond doubt the effects we seek to show. That is professional science/engineering: theorise/observe an effect, abstract, design experiments. No fumbling in the dark, hence our progress. My progress would have been a lot quicker if I had experimental facilities (6 months), the time was better spent theorising and generalising - and in a way I'm happier for seeing the general picture. Wishing you well, Remi. P.S. I may post this on to vortex and point a knarled finger at them and vent some spleen! From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 11:57:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA29054; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 11:48:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 11:48:29 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 11:47:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199706131847.LAA13197 Au.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: tessien oro.net (Ross Tessien) Subject: Re: Take note, pecking order: estab->CF->PM Resent-Message-ID: <"xEm2H3.0.u57.yNPep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8235 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The establishment has shown that when you convert more massive particles into less massive ones, that heat results. They have built power plants by using this technique. CF has shown that there is excess heat, some form of radiation exposing x-ray film, He production in several different device designs, and a variety of other pieces of evidence of transmutation. They have devices that are capable of powering 100 watt plus energy sources, but their devices are far from commercial, and they are still not absolutely proven (in the minds of the establishment physicists who have for the most part not bothered to try) to be nuclear or more to the point, not chemical. No formal theory has been accepted or found to fit all of the various observations, so it is not well understood yet. However, there is a lot of energy being generated and observed in a wide variety of devices. Also, MeV energy particles are observed in a variety of laboratory devices, and He is as well. These are good indications of nuclear energy level reactions and play in favor of further research into CF. PM has the opinion of a number of people that balls rolling up hill do so in strange ways. But the balls never run continuously, never generate any excess heat, and never drive a power generator. Theory tested over hundreds of years holds that pm isn't real, and no ZPE source of energy has been identified (as compared to supposed). ie, no reason for this to manifest. Despite having read a bit of the SMOT stuff, and other magnetic devices proposed over hundreds of years back to Keely, I have read of nothing that would imply to me that there is an avenue for substantial energy generation, nor that there is a means to amplify the effect even if there were one, which I doubt. No effect has been sufficiently robust to overcome even the tiny friction of a rolling steel ball on a ramp. If you cannot overcome that tiny loss, then how could you anticipate powering a reactor of some sort and pumping mega watts of power out onto a grid, or Kw of power to drive a home or a car? Thus, the pecking order is well deserved based on technical results. And of all of the devices, magnetic ones have been around probably the longest (save burning wood in chemical reactions :-) . So you had huge numbers of people trying to use magnets in all manner of configurations for about 200 years now, and the state of the art is still that one cannot overcome the trivial rolling friction of a stell ball on a ramp. Sounds to me like PM as always, is bogus. As for identifying some ZPE, fine. But the multi-watt power output of excess heat cited by CF devices would be very much more than ample to push the little steel balls over the ramp and keep them going around in a circle. Ross Tessien From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 12:33:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA09148; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:21:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Martin Sevior To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: CETI Radioactivity In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970613011755.00667454 sparc1> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"UGHCQ2.0.qE2.QuPep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8236 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Elliot Kennel wrote: > Barry wrote: > > >>...How do you know the radiactive elements were not simply plating out ont > the cathode, hence being removed from the region the counter was monitoring..." > > Gene replied: > > >>This obviously has been elaborately checked out. The radiation has NOT > migrated > ..<< > > Elliot's two cents: [snip] > It would be very desirable to allow a National Lab or similary > qualified institute to do a DETAILED study of what is going on. As long > there is an experiment with shoddy equipment and non-rigorous procedures, it > will continue to rest in that murky gray area between fact and fiction. > Given the support of CETI this would be almost trival to check. One could only detect gamma radiation from within the cell anyway as the alpha and betas would be contained within the cell and electrolyte. So just arrange two high resolution Germainium gamma detectors near the system. One up close to the cell, the other near the electrolyte reservoir. The just count for several days and see if anything happens. Any competent Nuclear Physicist could tell what was happening pretty quickly. The energies of the gammas would tell you exactly what radioactive species are present and at what abundance. If for example radon is merely being "boiled off" and removed from the vicinity of the cell, just it's disappearence would be observed. If on the other hand the primary Uranium or Thorium were genuinely being decomposed, a totally different signature would be apparent. By the way, I don't belive this is what is happenning at all. There are problems. Firstly the generation of heat. Say Patterson put 1 gram of Uranium into the system. Each U atom has about 220 MeV worth of "excess energy" stored in its nucleus as the difference between its binding energy and the binding energy of nickel and iron. If the nucleus is broken down this energy would be released - ala conventional fission. OK lets do the numbers: 1 gram of U has 1/238 * 6* 10^23 = 2.52*10^21 nuclei. This gives 220 * 2.52 * 10^21 = 5.5*10^23 MeV of energy. 1 MeV = 1.6*10^-13 Joules so we have 8.8*10^10 Joules of energy. Patterson's experiment ran for 1.5 hours and say 0.5 of the Uranium was remediated that gives a power release of 12 Megawatts. Now there's a hot water heater! Even if Patterson only put in 1 milligram of Uranium the system would still generate 12 kilowatts of power. OK, you say suppose instead of being broken down into the most stable nuclei, the Uranium is instead broken down into very light nuclei, which being relatively weakly bound, could be used to "soak up" this excess energy. Then we run into the other problem, that of neutron release. Uranium and Thorium have a much higher ratio of neutrons to protons than lighter nuclei. Even in fission where the daughter nuclei are relatively heavy AND neutron rich, there are 2.5 extra neutrons released per fission. If the Uranium were broken down inot weird combinations of say lead and lithium the situation would be far worse. Running the numbers again and assuming 2 neutrons per "remediation" we get about 10^21 neutrons in total or 10^17 neutrons per second. That would make the geiger counter needle wrap around the end of it's scale! OK you say, the neutrons are being bound up inside other nueclei and are not released. Then we know that these neutron rich nuclei are very radioactive and rapidly decay via beta emission which are almost always are follwoed by gamma emission, then were get 10*17 gamma's per second and the Geiger counter still wraps around the end scale. OK you say, the neutrons are instead converted to protons. The only way this can occur is via the decay... n => p + e + neutrino The rate of this decay would have to be increased many orders of magnitude AND the electron emitted would have to be much lower in energy than usual. This would also require a major modification of how we think the Electroweak interaction occurs on the quark scale. So anyway you look at this "remediation" process its going to make massive holes in what we know about physics to explain if true. It would be pretty easy to make the measurements I've described above. I'd be interested in doing them myself if it wasn't with such a shitty organization. I want nothing to do with CETI. Martin Sevior From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 12:40:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA05348; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:34:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:34:38 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:34:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Martin Sevior To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Take note, pecking order: estab->CF->PM In-Reply-To: <199706131847.LAA13197 Au.oro.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_Ckz31.0.UJ1.D3Qep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8237 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Ross Tessien wrote: [snip] > As for identifying some ZPE, fine. But the multi-watt power output of > excess heat cited by CF devices would be very much more than ample to push > the little steel balls over the ramp and keep them going around in a circle. > Not a single CF device has ever done an erg of mechanical work. It would be taken far more seriously if it had. It is true that no one other than Greg Watson and his friends have seen steel balls go round in circles by themselves. Greg seems far saner than your average the CF type, especially the ones with the biggest claims. Martin Sevior From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 13:06:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA08547; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:53:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:53:19 -0700 Message-ID: <33A18B93.3045 earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 11:04:03 -0700 From: Rich Murray Reply-To: rmforall earthlink.net Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-L eskimo.com, wireless@rmii.com, rollo@artvark.com, drom vxcern.cern.ch, blue@pilot.msu.edu, jonesse@astro.byu.edu, dennis wazoo.com, shellied@sage.dri.edu, zettsjs@ml.wpafb.af.mil, rmills blacklightpower.com, wrgood@earthlink.net, design73@aol.com, davidk suba.com, 71154.662@compuserve.com Subject: Cold Fusion progress Content-Type: message/news Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"btWID1.0.O52.jKQep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8238 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Path: nntp.earthlink.net!nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!waldorf.csc.calpoly.edu!berry.elite.net!news1.santaclara.agis.net!agis!news4.agis.net!newsgod.dearborn.agis.net!agis!news1.dearborn.agis.net!agis!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!n ews.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!eerie.fr!cnusc.fr!ciril.fr!univ-lille1.fr!jussieu.fr!rain.fr!easynet-fr!easynet-buggy!easynet-tele!easynet-uk1!usenet From: ian knowledge.co.uk (Ian Tresman) Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion Subject: Cold Fusion/Transmutation on ABC-TV, June 11, 1997 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:56:54 GMT Organization: Knowledge Computing Message-ID: <339eb11c.14825630 news.easynet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: iantresman.easynet.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.10/16.423 X-easynet-cherry: 8659729569881.nnrp From: Robert Bass Subject: RE: Cold Fusion/Transmutation on ABC-TV, June 11, 1997 Date: Tuesday, June 10, 1997 There was a public meeting at UCLA in the early 1990's which was attended by the big names from all of the DOE's National Labs pertaining to CTR ("hot fusion"), including Ron Parker from MIT, Marshall Rosenbluth from UCSD, a newly appointed Director of PPPNL, etc. I offered to debate any of them regarding the REALITY of the alleged phenomenon of Cold Fusion (CF) and the incompetence [& now published evidence of criminally culpable fraud in the production] of the ERAB Report, etc. but got no takers. I then stated, _for the record_, that their failure to pay serious attention to CF was going to turn out in the light of history to have been "SUICIDAL." Move to June, 1997. There is one big-screen Hollywood movie being seen by _millions_ ("The Saint") which portrays Martin Fleischmann & Stanley Pons as victims of suppression by the Establishment for no reason more noble than the preservation of their own privileges by the then High Priesthood of Hot Fusion and of High Energy Nuclear Physics. There is another Hollywood techno-thriller "Breaking Symmetry" already completed and due for release in a few months which was written by an MIT Professor who _saw_ the dirty tricks being played by the leaders of the DOE labs. To quote from a review already in print: "The film portrays events at a fictional research establishment, 'the Insitute,' where verifiable cold fusion has been discovered and treacherous efforts are being exerted by a group of paradigm- protecting 'hot fusion' scientists to suppress it. ... In a case of art imitating life, various of the dirty tricks depicted in the film -- the doctoring of results to disprove reported claims of success, the suppression of favorable evidence, and the refusal of respected scientific journals to allow proponents to publish their results -- reportedly reflect what actually happened at certain universities in the aftermath of the Pons & Fleischmann discovery. Producers hope that, perhaps, in the near future, the actual mainstream scientists who participated in the reputed intrigue will come clean of their own accord, and not follow in the footsteps of their fictional couternparts. The cinematic group, when ultimately found out, try to justify their mean-spirited rejection with a variation on the old excuse: 'We were only following [DOE] policy," Also to be seen shortly by every science-oriented teenager in America is the June-July issue of _ANALOG Science Fact & Science Fiction_ which features a lengthy fact-article by Dr. Eugene Mallove, buttressed by scores of references to published papers, which demonstrates incontrovertibly that the phenomenon is no illusion and not the alleged "Bad Science" which pseudo- science journalist & purveyer of blatant disinformation Gary Taubes was paid to write about. Also exposed is blatantly inexcusable disinformation from MIT, Caltech, and Harwell (and initial verifications at Oak Ridge & Los Alamos followed by enforced backing-off, such as the squelching of Edmund Storms). As a theoretician, I can ASSURE you that the evidence that in an F&P cell the reaction, contrary to DOE dogma, is ANEUTRONIC d + d => He_4 is by now utterly overwhelming, from numerous labs in many counries, who have found astonishing good correlations between the presence or absence of excess heat and the presence or absence of He_4 in either the effluent electrolytically evolved gases or else the palladium cathode (after being quick-frozen in liquid nitrogen while reacting); in some of the experiments the correlation between the amount of Helium_4 "ash" and the excess heat measured was perfect within experimental error. If you want to see a rigorous mathematical proof that the ERAB Report's main claim is a purely THEORETICAL blunder based upon mathematical incompetence, contact Dr. Bennet Miller in the Office of Energy Resarch of the DOE in Washington and ask him if he has reached a verdict on the papers by me which I sent him two months ago. (There were 3 versions, showing TWO separate mathematical errors in the 6 pages alleging to prove CF "impossible" in the Princeton U Press book on _Quantum Mechanics_ by P.J.E. Peebles, one of which I wrote at a High School Level, one at a Junior College Level, and one at a post-Ph.D. level: the two blunders which Peebles [imitating S. Koonin of Caltech] made are that he treated a problem involving the solution of Schroedinger's Equation as a LOCAL problem when inside of a lattice, as anyone who understands Duane's Rule [as exposited in his "New Foundations of QM," Cambridge U Press, by Alfred Lane of famed Lande g-factor] or basic Solid State Physics knows, the problem is intrinsically GLOBAL, and the second even worse error is that he ignored the _chief_ global feature of the problem, namely its PERIODICITY in the lattice-length [as in Bloch's Theorem of Solid State Physics]!!! Before you dismiss me as a crackpot, I will point out that I was both a Rhodes Scholar and did 3 years of post-doctoral study of pure mathematics at Princeton under the late Solomon Lefschetz, who received the National Medal of Science from Pres. Lyndon Johnson. Therefore, whether or not you think I know any physics, at least grant the possibility that I might know a rigorous mathematical proof from incompetent hand-waving!) Furthermore, I now have in my hand, and am preparing a News Release for approval by my Intellectual Property Law clients, the Cincinatti Group., a color photograph of a macroscopic amount of copper which can be seen with the naked eye and picked up by a tweezer and which has resulted from the following QUINTUPLY verified macroscopic low-energy nuclear transmutation of radioactive waste into stable nuclides. My clients made 5 identical CF type cells, which have a few proprietary wrinkles. The cells & the following demonstrations have been done both before a nationally reputable university lab & a nationally reputable expert in Nuclear Physics & Nuclear Engineering (report now available in writing) and before a nationally reputable data testing company. Each cell was small enough to fit inside of a 4-inch cube. One gram of thorium nitrate is dissolved in 100 ml of pure water, and one fourth of it is placed into the cell. Then a current is run through the cell from a 10 Kilowatt MAXIMUM Power Supply (bought from Radio Shack -- the discoverers, like the Wright brothers, are "mere High School graduates" with no formal scientific training! -- and they discovered the process in a corner of a welding shop) for TWENTY MINUTES. After this the solution is dried. It is tested by Mass Spectroscopy, as well as Chemical Assay, and Scanning Electron Microscope Atomic Emission Spectroscopy and by Gamma-Ray Spectroscopy in a lab whose walls are ten-feet thick lead-bricks to shield against cosmic rays, etc. The results are always the same, within a few percent. OVER 90% (NINETY PERCENT) of the radionuclide Th has disappeared, and (in atomic mass) an equal mass of newly created elements (typically Copper, Titanium, Iron, etc. though the exact percentage varies from run to run) has appeared from nowhere. The cell has been "digested" both before & after to seek for hidden contaminants but there are none! All of the various tests AGREE that the isotopic abundance ratios of the _newly-appeared_ Cu_63 and Cu_65 are discrepant with the NATURAL isotopic abundance ratio by 2,000% (TWO THOUSAND PERCENT!) Would not you people at LANL admit that to prepare a gram of Cu so out of whack with natural isotopic abundance ratio would require a mini-Manhattan Project if the inventors had been concocting a hoax? Likewise, the other macroscopic amounts of newly created elements are hugely at variance with their natural isotopic abundance ratios. Is this not convincing? In short, what one historian of science has called "the most sacrosanct principle in all of physical science" (the idea that MACROSCOPIC nuclear transmutations, as envisioned by medieval alchemists, are "impossible" and that NO external physical or chemical effects of LOW ENERGY can affect nuclear processes) is now in the garbage heap with phlogiston and the classical idea of the "indivisibility" of atoms. Moreover, I am here to tell you people that if you don't "wake up & smell the coffee" the public is going to be so disillusioned with the way that the national welfare has been BETRAYED by a small clique for selfish privileges that they are going to start hanging the DOE managers in effigy and demanding the abolishment of the DOE and the national labs. What you need to do is to get back issues of "Infinite Energy" from Gene Mallove and back issues of "Cold Fusion Times" from Mitchell Swartz and back issues of the refereed, internationally Abstracted (and therefore legal proof that you have no excuse), archival "Journal of New Energy" from Hal Fox [any issue of "Infinite Energy" will direct you to the others] and start catching up to learn what those of us who decline to be intimidated by peer pressure have been learning for the past 8 years while you have slumbered smugly in culpable ignorance. If you have seen the latest issue of _Discover_ magazine, you know that famed futurist Arthur C. Clarke (inventor of the comsat) has opined that "heads will roll at the DOE!!!" when the public wakes up to how they have been betrayed by the ERAB Report. What you are going to hear tomorrow on ABC News' "Good Morning America" is just the tip of the iceberg! Although I believe that the nuke industry needs to be phased out, I agree with Senator Gravel of Alaska (author of the book "Poisoned Power") that since the companies who went into this field did so in times of national urgency and at the call of their government, they should not be penalized for doing what their government wanted them to do. Therefore, I do not agree with the anti-nuke advocates who want to be VINDICTIVE toward nukes. But, as a result of the tragedy of the ERAB Report, I believe that no one should ever believe any more reports from the National Academy of Science (such as the one that there "cannot be," by physical laws, any cost-effective method of elimination of waste radionuclides) because my untutored but inspired clients have shown that such expensive and 'authoritative' opinions are frequently not worth a bucket of warm spit! Even though I have for decades (since working at PPPL, 1957-59 utterly DEPLORED the totally unscientific & totally "politicized" management of the national "hot fusion" program, I also believe that many of the best scientists of this century have been employed by the DOE labs, and that the DOE labs are "national treasures" which should not be scrapped just because their politicized managements have demonstrably screwed up in a major way. In proof of this assertion, of the nearly 400 different theories published internationally in the past 8 years which attempt to explain CF and Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR) on the basis of accepted physics, for my money the "best" is that based upon papers by Leaf Turner of LANL, as further developed by Robert Bush of Cal Poly Pomona & myself. (I don't know whether Bennett Miller of the OER of the DOE Hq has studied what I sent him, or agrees with it, but my version of this theory claims to be the ONLY one yet which passes the "Rabinowitz Acid Test" for CF theories, namely it _predicts_ that ordinary water will not work in a palladium cathode yet WILL work in a nickel cathode, and vice versa! My patent-pending test is simply to divide the lattice period length by the rms amplitude of the Zero Point Fluctuations of the bound deuterons [or protons], and divide the resultant "Schwinger Ratio" [which he correctly predicted was "all- important" in the CF matter, before he died a pariah] by pi, and if the result is near to an ODD integer you can easily get inelastic collisions [hence e.g. CF] between excited deuterons [or protons] and their lattice-bound twins, while if it is near to an EVEN integer you cannot -- and I submitted this patent application in June, 1991 BEFORE the second generation of CF reactors, such as those patented by CETI to be shown on national TV tomorrow, had been demonstrated!). A soon-to-be-vindicated Whistle-Blower, Bob Bass Dr. Robert W. Bass, Registered Patent Agent 29,130 [ex-Prof Physics] Inventor: Topolotron, Plasmasphere, issued; QRT Cold Fusion, pending P.O.Box 1238, Pahrump, NV 89041-1238; phone/FAX (702) 751-0932/0739 Voice-Mail: (702) 387-7213 e-Mail: rbrtbass pahrump.com > ************************************************* From: Eugene F. Mallove <76570.2270 CompuServe.COM> Subject: Cold Fusion/Transmutation on ABC-TV, June 11, 1997 Date: Sunday, June 08, 1997 6:41 AM COLD FUSION on ABC TV "Good Morning America" -- Wed June 11, 1997 Infinite Energy Magazine has received information that the re-scheduled program on Cold Fusion and the Radioactivity Reduction Process will appear on ABC-TV Good Morning America on Wednesday June 11, 1997 sometime between 7:00 a.m. and 9:00 a.m. -- most likely near 7:00 a.m. due to the importance of the story. (Please bear in mind that TV news item schedules are subject to change due to other national news, but this looks reasonably solid!) The working prototype water heater by Clean Energy Technologies, Inc. will be profiled. According to company sources, the device (which does NOT use Dr. Patterson's coated-bead technology, but instead a new method developed by the company) has been producing continuously several hundred watts excess energy since last February. It is claimed to be completely reproducible and an instant turn-on device. It can produce water at boiling temperature. Also, the ability of another CETI process to substantially reduce the radioactivity in thorium and uranium will be profiled. Further details on the above developments will be disclosed in Infinite Energy, Issue #13, to be published in July 1997. The magazine will also provide technical information on another US group that has achieved comparable performance in a radioactivity reduction process. The transmutation performance has been confirmed by mass spectrometry AND chemical analysis. The parallel achievement of radioactivity reduction by independent methods is highly significant to the understanding of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions. The American Nuclear Society meeting in Orlando (June 4, 1997), which I attended, featured a session on Low Energy Nuclear Reactions and radwaste remediation. This session will be the subject of a report in Infinte Energy in July. Sincerely, Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief Infinite Energy Magazine Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. PO Box 2816 Concord, NH 03302 Phone: 603-228-4516 Fax: 603-224-5975 76570.2270 compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JedRothwell > P.S. by Bob Bass: Amazingly, the Intersociety Energy Conversion Engineering Conference (IECEC), sponsored by the American Nuclear Society (ANS) as well as 5 other engineering societies (IEEE, ASME,AIAA,SAE,AIChE) takes both Cold Fusion (CF) and Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR) and low-energy Radwaste Remediation (RR) seriously enough to allow an entire session on it at their July 28 meeting. ***************** From: Mitchell Swartz To: Robert Bass Subject: Re: Fw: Cold Fusion/Transmutation on ABC-TV, June 11, 1997 Date: Monday, June 09, 1997 4:21 AM Hi Bob: How are you doing? Are you going to any meetings this year? (like the ICEC 7/97 meeting?) Best wishes. Mitchell Our paper #97009 Biphasic Behavior in Thermal Electrolytic Generators Using Nickel Cathodes has been accepted to IECEC '97 Hilton Hawaiian Village Honolulu Hawaii July 28 - August 1, 1997 http://members.aol.com/busassist/IECEC97.HTM Our paper is in a section on cold fusion, and is between Miles (US Navy) and Szpak (US Navy). The titles are below. IECEC-97 The American Institute of Chemical Engineers (AIChE) runs the 32nd Intersociety Energy Conversion Engineering Conference. The IECEC provides a forum to present and discuss engineering aspects of energy conversion, advanced energy conversion systems and devices, energy utilization and efficiency, environmental issues, and policy impacts on the research, development and implementation of energy systems. The IECEC is sponsored by six participating societies: the AIChE, the American Nuclear Society (ANS), the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE), the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA), the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME), and the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE). Session 52: Innovative Concepts I - New Concepts I Session 66: Innovative Concepts II - New Concepts II Session 77: Innovative Concepts III - Cold Fusion Results Session 89: Innovative Concepts IV - Additional Concepts ---------------------------------------------------------- Session 77: Innovative Concepts III - Cold Fusion Results ---------------------------------------------------------- Thursday PM, July 31 97221 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Thermal Energy Production From Electrolytic Cells (The Patterson Power Cell) D. Cravens and P. Bailey 97538 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Anomalous Heat and Helium Production Using Palladium-Boron Alloys in Heavy Water M. Miles, K. Johnson, and M. Imam 97009 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Biphasic Behavior in Thermal Electrolytic Generators Using Nickel Cathodes M. Swartz 97120 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Thermal and Nuclear Events Associated with the Pd+D Codeposition S. Szpak and P.A. Mosier-Boss 97368 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Excess Heat and Unexpected Elements from Aqueous Electrolysis with Titanium and Palladium Cathodes J. Dash, R. Kopecek, and S. Miguet 97198 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Changes for Isotopic Distribution of the Elements on Palladium Cathode After Electrolyzed in D2O Solution T. Mizuno, T. Akimoto, K. Kurokawa, M. Kitaichi, K. Inoda, K. Azumi, S. Simokawa, T. Ohmori, and E. Enyo 97373 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Nuclear Transmutation Induced by Light Water Electrolysis With Gold Electrode T. Ohmori, T. Mizuno, and M. Enyo **end** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 13:22:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA14438; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:19:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:19:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199706132019.NAA01668 popmail.UCSD.EDU> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Bart Simon" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:21:03 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: CETI Radioactivity Reply-to: bssimon helix.ucsd.edu Priority: normal References: <1.5.4.32.19970613011755.00667454 sparc1> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Resent-Message-ID: <"LnzI03.0.WX3.TjQep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8239 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Howdy, Here's the latest goo from Robert Park's electronic "what's new" column, his comments seem somehow more restrained than usual.... > 3. COLD FUSION: IT'S BACK! AND NOW IT NEUTRALIZES RADIOACTIVITY. > It was a stern test of my dedication. I had been assured that, > because of its importance, the story would be in the first hour > of "Good Morning America" on ABC. Alas, it was bumped by a story > about the Loch Ness monster popping up in a lake in Turkey, so I > sat through nearly two hours of cheerful goo to get to the big > payoff: James Patterson was back with his cold fusion cell (WN 9 > Feb 96). Well, nobody says "cold fusion" anymore; now it's "low-energy nuclear reactions," and it doesn't just produce heat these > days, it "neutralizes" radioactivity. Just crank it up and watch > the Geiger counter reading drop. ABC science editor Michael > Guillen says this is "attracting big-name scientists like Norm > Olson." I located Dr. Olson at Battelle Pacific Northwest Labs. > He cleared up a lot of my confusion; you see, the Patterson cell > allows hydrogen or deuterium to fuse with radioactive nuclei, > transmuting them to stable isotopes. Pretty neat, huh? He's very > optimistic about its potential for eliminating nuclear waste. So > goodbye Yucca Mountain. Michael Guillen, who is a physicist, did > not return my calls. I'm not upset, he must be very busy. cheers, Bart ============================================ Bart Simon Dept. of Sociology/Science Studies-0533 University of California at San Diego (UCSD) 9500 Gilman Dr. La Jolla, CA, 92093-0533 phone: 619-534-0491/fax: 619-534-3388 =========================================== From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 13:31:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA19703; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:27:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:27:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:25:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199706132025.NAA22333 Au.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: tessien oro.net (Ross Tessien) Subject: Re: Take note, pecking order: estab->CF->PM Resent-Message-ID: <"XKSLK2.0.lp4.NqQep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8240 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Not a single CF device has ever done an erg of mechanical work. It would >be taken far more seriously if it had. Multiple CF devices have measured atomic species that were not in there prior to firing up the device. They have also measured heat output when the thing was turned off and now power was being put in. The conversion of heat energy to ergs of "mechanical work" is a simple ME task. So performing that conversion could be done if they wanted to spend the money on the devices. But it is more important to spend money on generating more heat, as the heat is where the action is. Heat energy and mechanical work are synonamous, given some bucks to convert one from the other with a device such as a thermopile coupled to an electric motor for example. So if you need a whirlygig, that is easy to do. And maybe you are right, they ought to just to impress the news reporters who don't understand that this would be trivial. > >It is true that no one other than Greg Watson and his friends have seen >steel balls go round in circles by themselves. Greg seems far saner than >your average the CF type, especially the ones with the biggest claims. >Martin Sevior However, I hadn't read the description that Greg had said that he could get the balls to go round in a circle, I presume continuously. If this has been accomplished, why don't we have a video of it being sold. I would buy one. Or does it get a push to start, and then wind down over a couple laps around the track? ie, the losses per circle are very low, but the thing still loses energy on each lap. This is far different from the CF evidence, taking both at face value. BTW, a 100 watt output, which both CETI and E-Quest claim able to produce is equal to E9 ergs per second. Later, Ross Tessien From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 13:49:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA21713; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:44:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:44:21 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:43:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Martin Sevior To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Take note, pecking order: estab->CF->PM In-Reply-To: <199706132025.NAA22333 Au.oro.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"v89B33.0.BJ5.a4Rep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8241 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Ross Tessien wrote: > > Multiple CF devices have measured atomic species that were not in there > prior to firing up the device. They have also measured heat output when the > thing was turned off and now power was being put in. The conversion of heat > energy to ergs of "mechanical work" is a simple ME task. So performing that > conversion could be done if they wanted to spend the money on the devices. > But it is more important to spend money on generating more heat, as the heat > is where the action is. > As you should know Ross, there is a big difference between generating heat and using the heat to produce mechanical work. You need a big temperature difference to do the latter. Consider my point about the relative sanities of Greg Watson and the people claiming 100+ watt eccesses. Are they clamouring to get everybody to take them seriously? Do they want everyone to drop what they're doing and work on their marvelous discoveries? No in fact they don't. What they want is heaps of money with no strings attached so they can go and work by themselves. Judging by the success of Blacklight Power in raising money, even this strategy seems to work, strange as it may seem to me. >From memory Greg Watson has claimed: 1. Rotary mechanical device that ran for about 4 days. 2. Improved version of the device that has run for an unspecified time. 3. A curved ramp SMOT that ran for about 3 hours. 4. A straight ramp SMOT that ran for 8 minutes. Epitaxy has stated that he observed anomalus behaviour from a straight ramp SMOT. (A higher final state energy than initial state energy.) Martin Sevior From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 14:28:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA28268; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:22:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:22:58 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:07:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Rusi To: Rich Murray cc: vortex-L eskimo.com, wireless@rmii.com, rollo@artvark.com, drom vxcern.cern.ch, blue@pilot.msu.edu, jonesse@astro.byu.edu, dennis wazoo.com, shellied@sage.dri.edu, zettsjs@ml.wpafb.af.mil, rmills blacklightpower.com, wrgood@earthlink.net, design73@aol.com, davidk suba.com, 71154.662@compuserve.com Subject: Re: Cold Fusion progress In-Reply-To: <33A18B93.3045 earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"bEsOE2.0.Zv6.neRep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8242 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Why do we have to wait 4 years for this overunity water heater? The public, and I will remain completely skeptical until we have working models in our own hands. Until then, all the long posts seem to be nothing more than self serving, self enriching, boasting from a few diehards. Mallove would do himself a great favor if he just published all his past work on his web sight with FREE access, like Dr. Paul Cramer does with his old articles from ANALOG. Anything less than that makes him seem like a snakeoil salesman. I will be happy to eat humble pie when Toyota rolls a CF car up to my door or CETI offers a hot water heater to contractors, until then beware of Greeks bearing gifts! From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 15:30:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA07936; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: 13 Jun 97 18:17:53 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: CETI Radioactivity Message-ID: <970613221752_72240.1256_EHB110-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"UYMer1.0.wx1.QWSep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8243 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex Martin Sevior writes: Given the support of CETI this would be almost trivial to check. One could only detect gamma radiation from within the cell anyway as the alpha and betas would be contained within the cell and electrolyte. So just arrange two high resolution Germanium gamma detectors near the system . . . I do not know much about the CETI work. I don't know if they have done this particular test or not. But I have heard they did far more than we saw on the ABC clip. Furthermore, the work that Gene alluded to the other day, of a similar nature but with a closed cell, was performed in a top notch commercial lab that specializes in this kind of analysis. Not only did they detect a gigantic drop in radioactivity, they did a chemical inventory of dissolved elements in liquid. This was what Chris Tinsley suggested. They found most of the radioactive element had disappeared, and new elements had appeared, in macroscopic amounts. (I mean macroscopic by the dictionary definition: "large enough to be perceived or examined by the unaided eye.") By the way, I don't believe this is what is happening at all. There are problems. Firstly the generation of heat. Say Patterson put 1 gram of Uranium into the system. Each U atom has about 220 Mts nucleus as the difference between its binding energy and the binding energy of nickel and iron. If the nucleus is broken down this energy would be released - ala conventional fission. OK lets do the numbers . . . . . . Patterson's experiment ran for 1.5 hours and say 0.5 of the Uranium was remediated that gives a power release of 12 Megawatts. Stop Right There!!! RED ALERT! You have it backwards, Martin. What you mean to say is: according to present theories . . . we should see 12 MW, so if this phenomenon is occurring the theories must be wrong. You can NEVER claim that the data does not fit the theory so the data must be wrong. You can't even say it might be wrong or "I don't believe that is what is happening at all." You can never base any belief on theory. An apparent violation of theory should make you cautious. It should make you anxious to double and triple check the results. But under no circumstances can it ever make you doubt your own eyes or the instruments. There must be an iron wall between evaluation of data and interpretation. Evaluation means you critique the instruments & experimental technique. This is what Martin started doing, and doing well: asking whether the instruments were mishandled, malfunctioning, placed incorrectly, or poorly chosen. Evaluation also means you look at the signal to noise ratio and the number of times the experiment has been independently replicated (zero in this case). Based on these things, anyone can see that CETI is on shaky ground. I expect even Patterson would agree. However, Martin then moved to theoretical grounds, which only apply to interpretation. You can "do numbers" to determine how it happened, but never to judge *that it happened*. If we learn that Geiger counters and gamma detectors show a massive decline in radiation, and new elements have appeared with unnatural isotopes, *then you cannot deny transmutation has occurred*. Of course we have not learned any of that yet. We don't have a description of the experiment, we have no data, so this is all speculation. Frankly, I think it is bad idea to speculate at this stage. Sorry, but I have become more dogmatic about this rule over the years, especially after reading a large chunk of Frances Bacon's writing. Bacon invented the scientific method from the get-go. Nobody has defined it better. Many scientists today hardly understand what he meant or how science is supposed to work. Of course I realize this is a simplification. To some extent theory must spill into evaluation. The instruments themselves have a theory of operation, which could be wrong. (In other words, maybe Patterson has invented a new way to screw up a Geiger counter -- we'll see, when he uses other instruments per Martin's suggestions.) Bacon explained these ramifications and complexities with wonderful clarity. It is impossible to avoid ambiguity, some degree of circularity, and logical errors. (Circularity, in this case, would be to define "radioactivity" as "that which the Geiger counter measures.") But we must try to avoid them! When you start "doing the numbers" and you come up with an answer that convinces you the instruments and observations cannot be true, you have fallen into the biggest, deepest and oldest trap of all -- one that mankind took thousands of years to crawl out of. As Bacon put it: "we are not to deny the authority of the human senses, but to furnish them with assistance." Contrary to popular ideas about primitive culture, ancient people did not see the world simply, with unencumbered vision. It is *we*, in the modern age, who have learned how to see things directly, like newborn children. Even if Patterson only put in 1 milligram of Uranium the system would still generate 12 kilowatts of power. No. You mean: according to our present understanding it would generate 12 KW. I do not know enough theory to judge, but I gather that previous CF results already knocked our present understanding into a cocked hat, so I don't see why these results surprise anyone. That's the whole point! When people use theory as a yardstick to measure data they throw away all CF data, even the rock solid data from SRI, IMRA, Hokkaido U., Los Alamos, the Navy and the French AEC. That's crazy. It's pathological. It would be pretty easy to make the measurements I've described above. I'd be interested in doing them myself if it wasn't with such a shitty organization. I want nothing to do with CETI. I couldn't agree more! And if CETI does not hand over a cell to Dr. Olsen so he can test it back at Hanford, that will prove they are shitty and crazy too. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 15:34:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA09336; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:27:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:27:55 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:27:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199706132227.PAA32251 Au.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: tessien oro.net (Ross Tessien) Subject: Re: Take note, pecking order: estab->CF->PM Resent-Message-ID: <"dTep72.0.kH2.gbSep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8244 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >As you should know Ross, there is a big difference between generating heat >and using the heat to produce mechanical work. You need a big temperature >difference to do the latter. Martin, yes I understand exactly what is involved in turning heat into work, I am an ME. But you do not need a large temperature difference. It is just that your effeciency of energy conversion is improved if you do. Any temperature difference, given a slick device, is sufficient to convert the energy into mechanical work. A simple device would use a thermocouple to measure the temperature difference, trickle charge a battery, and then use the battery to drive a toy car down the hallway. So, 100 watts of power is 100 watts of power no matter what the source, as long as you temper your expectation with an energy conversion effeciency factor. But the effeciency is not going to be zero. So, if the heat generated is indeed from any form of nuclear reaction, then it is valuable and useful. >>From memory Greg Watson has claimed: > >1. Rotary mechanical device that ran for about 4 days. > >2. Improved version of the device that has run for an unspecified time. > >3. A curved ramp SMOT that ran for about 3 hours. > >4. A straight ramp SMOT that ran for 8 minutes. > If this is so, and if Greg is giving out plans on the net to build these things, then video tape the thing in operation and I will buy a 2 hour video of a continuous running device with any explanations Greg wants to add including theory or just a sing along (I could turn the sound off and just watch the thing run :-) Any way, how about it Greg? If you make a video tape it costs 10 bucks to duplicate them out here, I will gladly mail you 20 for such a tape of a magnetic device that runs for two hours. And if you have multiple designs, it would be nice to see the different styles and hear you verbally expound on their pluses and minuses as far as long term operation is concerned. images and words cut to the chase immediately. But don't cut the tape in and out of the thing running. We want to see a long term run without video editing from multiple starts. Ross Tessien From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 15:48:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA10535; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:39:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:39:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:37:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199706132237.PAA00167 Au.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: tessien oro.net (Ross Tessien) Subject: Re: Cold Fusion progress Resent-Message-ID: <"Ogwo43.0.Pa2.DmSep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8245 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Why do we have to wait 4 years for this overunity water heater? >The public, and I will remain completely skeptical until we have working >models in our own hands. Because even if they do have a working water heater, it is not commercially viable. The public is not going to run downstairs every week to change out beads and electrolyte or whatever needs to be done. And if they are shooting for a 20 percent effeciency gain over electric as stated on the GMA interview, then that means that the beads had better last a very long time. Otherwise, the expense of the beads and cell and electrolyte may exceed the expense of just buying the electricity, not to mention the additional hastle and hazardous materials in the heating loop adjacent to potable water. Further, what are you going to do with a bunch of used water heaters with a bunch of chemicals in them? Those are now hazardous waste, and cannot be tossed at the dumps. And then to increase the life expectancy of the beads, they decreased the rate at which they drive them, ergo the 20 percent gain in effeciency. But what does that mean to a consumer? Answer, increased time to reheat the water following emptying the tank to take a shower. that is exactly the opposite of what consumers want in the real market place. So, even if their device is real, which I hope it is but am reserved at this point, their device is still a long way from being commercially viable. In fact, a device with a bunch of chemicals may never be commercially viable unless it produces the heat for virtually free. then a consumer might give in and put up with the hastle of changing out all of the electrolyte etc. Four years is a short time for such an R&D effort on such a new product. Though they said "2 to 4 years " if I recall. Later, Ross Tessien From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 16:08:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA11540; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: 13 Jun 97 18:42:15 EDT From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Mail Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT Message-ID: <970613224214_100060.173_JHB62-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"I3KCE3.0.9q2.xrSep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8246 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >> I strongly recommend the shareware file viewer called ACDSee, for all of your picture viewing needs. (available in 32bit Win95 version) << Aren't you the lucky boy then! I'm still in W4WG 3.11 and none of my graphics viewers recognise this binary file whatever the extension letters. I have no difficulty in viewing most of the JPG TIF GIF PCX etc etc formats. Its just that either the file has been corrupted in the d/l process or its a version of JPEG which my lowly 16 bit set-up is incapable of decoding it. BTW, I checked out the possibility of PKZIP compression and its definitely not in that format. The best decoder/viewer I have is XferPro which can detect almost any graphics compression code automatically, and is recommended by the Ozarcks software crowd who produce OzWin, my OLR, and which works 9/10 times. So its not such an elementary problem IMHO. Norman From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 16:56:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA25355; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:43:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:43:15 -0700 From: HLafonte aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 19:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970613154225_-294984872 emout09.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: TEST Resent-Message-ID: <"YCALw3.0.5C6.IiTep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8247 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: TEST From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 17:06:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA25525; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:05:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Martin Sevior To: vortex-l eskimo.com Cc: Vortex Subject: Re: CETI Radioactivity In-Reply-To: <970613221752_72240.1256_EHB110-1 CompuServe.COM> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"H1Qyh.0.gE6.AvTep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8248 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 13 Jun 1997, Jed Rothwell wrote: > To: Vortex > > Martin Sevior writes: > [snip] > > By the way, I don't believe this is what is happening at all. There are > problems. > > Firstly the generation of heat. Say Patterson put 1 gram of Uranium into > the system. Each U atom has about 220 Mts nucleus as the difference > between its binding energy and the binding energy of nickel and iron. If > the nucleus is broken down this energy would be released - ala > conventional fission. OK lets do the numbers . . . > > . . . Patterson's experiment ran for 1.5 hours and say 0.5 of the > Uranium was remediated that gives a power release of 12 Megawatts. > > Stop Right There!!! RED ALERT! You have it backwards, Martin. What you mean to > say is: according to present theories . . . we should see 12 MW, so if this > phenomenon is occurring the theories must be wrong. You can NEVER claim that > the data does not fit the theory so the data must be wrong. You can't even say > it might be wrong or "I don't believe that is what is happening at all." You > can never base any belief on theory. An apparent violation of theory should > make you cautious. Exactly Jed. I don't believe it because it appears to violate so much of what I know about Physics as explained in the next few paragraphs. I guess I'll believe it when the DOE anounces plans for the mass elimination of radioactive waste (or when Robert Park thinks it's true). Martin Sevior From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 18:34:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA20400; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:27:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:27:43 -0700 X-Sender: ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ed Wall Subject: Re: Tony Rusi's Re: Cold Fusion progress Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:27:04 +0000 Message-ID: <19970614012653.AAB12023 HOME> Resent-Message-ID: <"sBteg2.0.g-4.EEVep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8249 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tony, >Why do we have to wait 4 years for this overunity water heater? You can buy a Hydrosonic Pump now from Jim Griggs that is supposed to be better than 120%. >The public, and I will remain completely skeptical until we have working >models in our own hands. Until then, all the long posts seem to be nothing >more than self serving, self enriching, boasting from a few diehards. >Mallove would do himself a great favor if he just published all his past >work on his web sight with FREE access, like Dr. Paul Cramer does with >his old articles from ANALOG. I surmise your employer would dearly appreciate it if you would work for free also. Really, not parting with $30 for something likely to become an heirloom is cheap. Why not demand that Toyota GIVE you that CF car? >Anything less than that makes him seem like >a snakeoil salesman. So easy to condemn whom you know so little of. Ed Wall From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 18:56:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA16236; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: 13 Jun 97 21:45:56 EDT From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Cold Fusion progress Message-ID: <970614014556_76570.2270_FHU43-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"FK_Ra3.0.bz3.XXVep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8250 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Murray wrote: "Why do we have to wait 4 years for this overunity water heater? The public, and I will remain completely skeptical until we have working models in our own hands. Until then, all the long posts seem to be nothing more than self serving, self enriching, boasting from a few diehards. Mallove would do himself a great favor if he just published all his past work on his web sight with FREE access, like Dr. Paul Cramer does with his old articles from ANALOG. Anything less than that makes him seem like a snakeoil salesman. I will be happy to eat humble pie when Toyota rolls a CF car up to my door or CETI offers a hot water heater to contractors, until then beware of Greeks bearing gifts!" This is the biggest bunch of crap yet from Murray. We are in business to stay in business because we are dealing with real science and technology, for which Murray obviously has minimal understanding. From now on I could care less what Murray writes or thinks. Ironically, Murray seems to be the biggest snake oil salesman of them all -- right up there with Huizenga, Close, and Taubes. Murray won't be eating humble pie. He'll be claiming he knew CF was real all along... Gene Mallove From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 19:27:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA20538; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 19:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 19:24:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Tony Rusi's Re: Cold Fusion progress Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:22:35 +0000 Message-ID: <19970614022233.AAA17274 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"jh_Dy1.0.q05.43Wep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8251 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:27 AM 6/14/97 +0000, Ed Wall wrote: >Tony, > >>Why do we have to wait 4 years for this overunity water heater? > >You can buy a Hydrosonic Pump now from Jim Griggs that is supposed to be >better than 120%. You can pick up better than 20% savings on you electric hot water heating costs with $50.00 worth of insulation on the heater and piping. The first-cost and maintenance on a "standard" motor pump cannot be amortized at even much higher "o-u" return. :-) > >>The public, and I will remain completely skeptical until we have working >>models in our own hands. Until then, all the long posts seem to be nothing >>more than self serving, self enriching, boasting from a few diehards. >>Mallove would do himself a great favor if he just published all his past >>work on his web sight with FREE access, like Dr. Paul Cramer does with >>his old articles from ANALOG. > >I surmise your employer would dearly appreciate it if you would work for >free also. Really, not parting with $30 for something likely to become an >heirloom is cheap. Why not demand that Toyota GIVE you that CF car? Hear, Hear! My Captain Marvel and Submariner comic books would be worth a Kings Ransom, today if I had saved them. > >>Anything less than that makes him seem like >>a snakeoil salesman. > > Four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie? > >So easy to condemn whom you know so little of. I don't think anyone can question Gene Mallove's sincerity, but, from personal experience nature's way can be a hard and cruel taskmaster. For instance, almost seventy years of a quest for "Controlled Thermonuclear Reaction" breakeven. :-) > >Ed Wall > Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 20:39:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA07660; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 20:37:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 20:37:12 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:35:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706140335.WAA22254 dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> From: aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki ) Subject: Fwd: Re: Cold Fusion progress To: 76570.2270 compuserve.com Cc: aki ix.netcom.com Cc: rmforall earthlink.net Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Cc: windski eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"lZ2Jw3.0.Yt1.c7Xep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8252 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: June 14, 1997 Dear 'Gene, Psst. As you can see below, it's NOT Murray that made the post you responded to. Murray only reposted to Vortex a long positive, pro CF SPF post made by Robert Bass on June 11th. It is Tony Russi that made the spamming negative CF post. -AK- ---- Begin Forwarded Message Return-Path: Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (smartlst mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by ixmail8.ix.netcom.com (8.7.5/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id OAA15267; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA28268; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:22:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:22:58 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:07:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Rusi To: Rich Murray cc: vortex-L eskimo.com, wireless@rmii.com, rollo@artvark.com, drom vxcern.cern.ch, blue@pilot.msu.edu, jonesse@astro.byu.edu, dennis wazoo.com, shellied@sage.dri.edu, zettsjs ml.wpafb.af.mil, rmills blacklightpower.com, wrgood@earthlink.net, design73 aol.com, davidk suba.com, 71154.662@compuserve.com Subject: Re: Cold Fusion progress In-Reply-To: <33A18B93.3045 earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"bEsOE2.0.Zv6.neRep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8242 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Why do we have to wait 4 years for this overunity water heater? The public, and I will remain completely skeptical until we have working models in our own hands. Until then, all the long posts seem to be nothing more than self serving, self enriching, boasting from a few diehards. Mallove would do himself a great favor if he just published all his past work on his web sight with FREE access, like Dr. Paul Cramer does with his old articles from ANALOG. Anything less than that makes him seem like a snakeoil salesman. I will be happy to eat humble pie when Toyota rolls a CF car up to my door or CETI offers a hot water heater to contractors, until then beware of Greeks bearing gifts! From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 20:59:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA10144; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 20:58:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 20:58:36 -0700 Message-ID: <33A2260F.621B earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:03:11 -0700 From: Rich Murray Reply-To: rmforall earthlink.net Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, windski@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cold Fusion progress References: <970614014556_76570.2270_FHU43-2 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WoH_r3.0.MU2.hRXep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8253 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hey, Gene Mallove, relax, it wasn't me, the obstensible Rich Murray that wrote those disparaging words-- it was someone named Tony Rusi [windski eskimo.com]. I didn't make any comments. I simply forwarded Bob Bass's lengthly post because it contained the first specifics I've heard since September about the fabulous Neal-Gleason Process, from Cincinatti, Ohio, as well as details about cold fusion transmutation reports being scheduled at the end of July in a huge mainstream energy conversion conference in Honolulu. As I wrote in a post to Vortex-L a few months ago, I will be delighted and excited if a groundswell of successful, independent replications confirms the extraordinary and remarkably simple transmutations results reported so far by Dash, Mizuno, Ohmori, and others, including Miley and CETI. Especially, I'm hoping every day to hear from Scott Little. Rich Murray From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 21:44:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA16516; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 21:39:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 21:39:10 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 21:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706140438.VAA29741 italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: SMOT and Qfield page Resent-Message-ID: <"57Ltb.0.w14.j1Yep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8254 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg, Your site is looking better all the time. I see you fixed the counter. Looking foreward to hearing more on your SMOT and RMOD research updates. Best Regards, Michael At 09:27 PM 6/13/97 +0930, you wrote: >Hi All, > >I have updated my web site with the QField software I use and the model >files for the SMOT sims. There are TWO versions of QField around. One >has a 200 node mesh limit (on the QField site) and the one on my site >has a 500 node mesh limit. > >Hope this helps. > >-- >Best Regards, > Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 22:33:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA11450; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970614052832.006b5c0c atlantic.net> X-Sender: johmann atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:28:32 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Kurt Johmann Subject: Re: Tony Rusi's Re: Cold Fusion progress Resent-Message-ID: <"yYCTJ2.0.ho2.2nYep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8255 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ed Wall writes: >>Tony, >> >>>Why do we have to wait 4 years for this overunity water heater? >> >>You can buy a Hydrosonic Pump now from Jim Griggs that is supposed to be >>better than 120%. >> >>>The public, and I will remain completely skeptical until we have working >>>models in our own hands. Until then, all the long posts seem to be nothing >>>more than self serving, self enriching, boasting from a few diehards. >>>Mallove would do himself a great favor if he just published all his past >>>work on his web sight with FREE access, like Dr. Paul Cramer does with >>>his old articles from ANALOG. >> >>I surmise your employer would dearly appreciate it if you would work for >>free also. Really, not parting with $30 for something likely to become an >>heirloom is cheap. Why not demand that Toyota GIVE you that CF car? >> >>>Anything less than that makes him seem like >>>a snakeoil salesman. >> >> >> >>So easy to condemn whom you know so little of. Eugene Mallove may not be perfect, but he is a hell of a lot better, IMO, than 99% of the bozos who crawl out of the woodwork and attack him. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 23:39:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA18352; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 23:35:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 23:35:11 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Frank's Tiny Comets Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 06:33:42 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <33a1ee52.4243428 mail.eisa.net.au> References: <1.5.4.32.19970611214354.0071bb04 atlantic.net> In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970611214354.0071bb04 atlantic.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IC5Bv2.0.QT4.GkZep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8257 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:43:54 -0400, Kurt Johmann wrote: >On page 1333, the latest issue of Science (May 30, vol 276) has a >one-page "Research News" article about Frank's comets (roughly 20 >"house-sized" comets are hitting the Earth per minute according to >Frank's interpretation of the satellite data). [snip] > >Although such speculation may be completely premature, there is at least >one way to reconcile the observations of both sides: could it be that >Frank and his satellite have stumbled onto the sprinkler system of the >gods -- or whatever you want to call any hypothesized intra-solar >nonhuman super civilization that is normally hidden from our view -- by >which they keep their garden watered? > Given that the photographic evidence consists of dark spots, perhaps they are really photographs of UFOs, and not of comets. Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 23:39:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA18270; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 23:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 23:35:02 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: More on x-ray film Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 06:33:46 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <33a3f25d.5278326 mail.eisa.net.au> References: <1.5.4.32.19970612003244.00667454 sparc1> In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970612003244.00667454 sparc1> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yuD4_2.0.HT4.FkZep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8258 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:32:44 +0900, Elliot Kennel wrote: [snip] > Meantime, I am going to try to buy some Indian x-ray film, though I >expect that this might take some time. > >Best regards, >Elliot > Hi Elliot, At the risk of preaching to the converted, just a quick comment. If you are not already doing it, then it might pay to place a small metal cutout between the film and the experiment, so you get a definite shadow effect that would identify the experiment as the source of any exposure. Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 13 23:40:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA18238; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 23:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 23:34:57 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Frank's Tiny Comets Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 06:33:44 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <33a2f11a.4955796 mail.eisa.net.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"F3Z02.0.YS4.9kZep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8256 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:42:27 -0800, Horace Heffner wrote: [snip] >>Let us pray they don't turn it off... > >Let us pray they don't turn it up ... > >In fact maybe the high observed rate is *due* to a recent increase in small >comet density. Portents of a nemesis swarm? > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner > > If radar is used to track space "junk", then why aren't these "comets" picked up? Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 01:15:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA27888; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970614080740.006caf0c atlantic.net> X-Sender: johmann atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 04:07:40 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Kurt Johmann Subject: Re: Frank's Tiny Comets Resent-Message-ID: <"TRlg_1.0.gp6.26bep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8259 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk (rvanspaa eisa.net.au) writes: >On Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:43:54 -0400, Kurt Johmann wrote: > >>On page 1333, the latest issue of Science (May 30, vol 276) has a >>one-page "Research News" article about Frank's comets (roughly 20 >>"house-sized" comets are hitting the Earth per minute according to >>Frank's interpretation of the satellite data). >[snip] >> >>Although such speculation may be completely premature, there is at least >>one way to reconcile the observations of both sides: could it be that >>Frank and his satellite have stumbled onto the sprinkler system of the >>gods -- or whatever you want to call any hypothesized intra-solar >>nonhuman super civilization that is normally hidden from our view -- by >>which they keep their garden watered? > >Given that the photographic evidence consists of dark spots, perhaps >they are really photographs of UFOs, and not of comets. Well, the spots represent large areas, if I recall correctly, of more than 30 kilometers across. But since you mention UFOs: If UFOs are real, and if the sprinkler system is real, then it is not unreasonable to guess that the beings behind the UFOs are also the beings behind the sprinkler system. But, of course, this is all speculation, and awaits better data regarding what, exactly, is causing these apparent comets. Five or ten years from now, after better data, Frank's comets may have been proved bogus, or may have been proved real but with a prosaic explanation, or may still remain a mystery in the sense of having better supporting data but no explanation that satisfies the "dry" arguments. This last possibility is perhaps the likely outcome if the sprinkler system is the actual explanation. Time will tell. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 01:54:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA00255; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:53:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33a1ee52.4243428 mail.eisa.net.au> References: <1.5.4.32.19970611214354.0071bb04 atlantic.net> <1.5.4.32.19970611214354.0071bb04 atlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:51:06 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Frank's Tiny Comets Resent-Message-ID: <"65QkI2.0.v3.ulbep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8260 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A Robin - > Given that the photographic evidence consists of > dark spots, perhaps they are really photographs of > UFOs, and not of comets. Those dark spots are dark holes in the UV spectrum - they are holes punched by something. They appear suddenly and then disappear slowly. They have also been caught on telescopes. I no nothing about the lack of radar targets, but they are rather loose collections of ice high above a wet atmosphere - they may not show up well like a nice uW-shiny piece of metal on systems designed to see just that. Personal anecdote: many years ago while watching the sky on a moonless, cloudless night far from any city lights, I saw a sort-of meteor - except that it had no pinpoint head nor consisted of a bright streak of light. It was just a dim bluish patch of flickery light zooming quickly across 30 degrees or so of sky. Its apparent diameter was about that of the moon. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 02:37:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA23696; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:35:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:35:03 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: More on x-ray film Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:32:36 +0000 Message-ID: <19970614093235.AAA2169 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"KME8p2.0.Ao5.6Ncep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8261 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:33 AM 6/14/97 +0000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:32:44 +0900, Elliot Kennel wrote: >[snip] >> Meantime, I am going to try to buy some Indian x-ray film, though I >>expect that this might take some time. >> >>Best regards, >>Elliot >> >Hi Elliot, > >At the risk of preaching to the converted, just a quick comment. If >you are not already doing it, then it might pay to place a small metal >cutout between the film and the experiment, so you get a definite >shadow effect that would identify the experiment as the source of any >exposure. > Good idea, Robin! I think a Batman (and Robin?) profile would do nicely. :-) Regards, Frederick >Robin van Spaandonk >-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* >Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on >temperature. >"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." >PS - no SPAM thanks! >-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 02:50:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA05902; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:48:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:48:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Tony Rusi's Re: Cold Fusion progress Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:47:18 +0000 Message-ID: <19970614094716.AAA4672 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"JysR-2.0.4S1.zZcep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8262 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 05:28 AM 6/14/97 +0000, Kurt Johmann wrote: > >Eugene Mallove may not be perfect, but he is a hell of a lot better, IMO, >than 99% of the bozos who crawl out of the woodwork and attack him. > > I always admired the "Pied Piper" of.... and am really impressed by a "One Man Band". :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 04:58:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA04774; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 04:58:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 04:58:00 -0700 Message-ID: <33A28C9C.47A9 keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 05:20:44 -0700 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Retro TOMI References: <19970614093235.AAA2169 LOCALNAME> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zguJY3.0.OA1.7Teep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8263 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gnorts Vorts! Thought with all the flutter about Greg Watsons SMOT, it might be interesting to compare to the TOMI. I built it and it worked, the principles are very similar. Chuck Hendersons daughter built one and entered it in the Science Fair, winning first prize.....check out; http://www.keelynet.com/energy/tomibild.htm -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 05:11:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA06804; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 05:09:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 05:09:09 -0700 Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 08:05:54 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: Other remediation of Radioactivity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Old_11.0.Bg1.adeep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8264 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., Some pieces of letters and additional information; On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Martin Sevior wrote: > Elliot's two cents: It would be very desirable to allow a National Lab or similary > > qualified institute to do a DETAILED study of what is going on. More than one such a study was done in the case of work done by Wm. A Barker. See his patents. Any competent > Nuclear Physicist could tell what was happening pretty quickly. > > The energies of the gammas would tell you exactly what radioactive species > are present and at what abundance. This is what was seen with Barker's work. So anyway you look at this "remediation" process its going to make massive > holes in what we know about physics to explain if true. No holes in theory are needed to understand Barker's work. The theory is well laid out and expeimental evidence supports it. The evidence is in the patent documentation including measuremnts taken on a regular basis by Nuclear Chemist at university. The souce material came from commercial radio isotope lab and is also well documented. While a replication was performed locally [to me] we did not have detailed instrumentation but the effect did obtain. The reduced radioactivity and rate of reduction agreed with Barker. It took, as he said it would, a while, nearly a year, for it to be un ambiguous. Barkers work came at a 'bumpy time' in scientific credibility in nuclear work. Barker's method can be fairly easily replicated. I am willing to put any interested parties in touch with an outfit that will kit up some or all of the equipment needed to replicate the work, with the exeption of the radioactive material. We did it with a college senior on a table top and power input was 115 VAC at less than 7 amps for less than 20 hours, total tratment power requirement. It was really very gratifying to see the count rate change. JHS From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 06:53:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA20325; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 06:51:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 06:51:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Tstolper aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:50:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970614095015_90975088 emout18.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Re: 1997 IECEC Resent-Message-ID: <"KM6g82.0.Uz4.g7gep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8265 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mitchell, When and where will the 1997 IECEC be held? Do you have a contact telephone number? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 06:53:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA20358; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 06:51:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 06:51:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Tstolper aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:50:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970614095020_-695708048 emout20.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Re: x-ray film Resent-Message-ID: <"wIBni3.0.0-4.m7gep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8266 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Schnurer posted some comments and questions relevant to autoradiography: "Some exposures were two weeks. What are the specifications of the film used from India? Flourescent materials are often used to enhance. MCP intensifiers can be used." For those of us who know nothing about this field, would John or someone else please explain 1) what MCP intensifiers are and how they can be used in autoradiography 2) how fluorescent materials are used as enhancers in autoradiography Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 08:00:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA26951; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 07:55:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 07:55:57 -0700 From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:55:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970614105520_2021561637 emout12.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Marshall visit and 1984 call to Puthoff Resent-Message-ID: <"VQoCa2.0._a6.y3hep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8267 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In 1984 I called Puthoff and said, "I believe that electron condensations produce phenomena directly linked to gravity!" Puthoff answered, "I think so to!" Now I've been to Marshall and seen first hand that this is going to happen. Do you remember this comment Hal? Now at Marshall I got Noever to say, "It softens up the nucleus!" Give this is few years and I believe that we will, once again, find that that comment was right on the money. Most importantly one will publish my paper "The Source of Inertial and Gravitation Mass" which is central to this work. Its to novel for the main stream journals and to dry for the fringe science magazines. Frank Znidarsic fznidarsic aol.com 481 Boyer St. http://members.aol.com/FZNIDARSIC/index.html Johnstown, Pa. 15906 Automatic links: Home_Page Send_E-mail From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 09:03:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA04397; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:01:39 +0200 (METDST) Message-Id: <199706141601.SAA23481 imaginet.fr> X-Sender: lentin mail2.imaginet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Radioactivity remediation Resent-Message-ID: <"8x18B1.0.c41.O2iep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8268 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vortexians, Surely, this prospect of "radioactive remediation" could be one of the most important findings of our age, and it deserves some serious investigation. I intent to do my modest part in this. CETI is sort of a late comer in this field. I went back to my files and found this list of former claims. - The oldest claim that I know of is Yull Brown's gas. He's been saying that the gas' flame neutralizes RA for at least 15 years ! DOE, allegedly, did investigate and witness an experiment, but were not too impressed, and did not pursue the issue. - Ron Neal & Stan Gleeson, once known as the "Cincinatti group" and investigated by Hal Fox, applied for a patent in december 1995. Is this the "parallel work" Gene Mallove and Jed Rothwell were alluding to ? - The William Barker patent, recently mentioned by John Schnurer on this list - the "Keller catalytic process", investigated and experimented by Michael Mandeville. Jack Keller seems to have done his first experiments in 1993. - Roberto Monti, Burns Development Ltd (announcement in a congress on low energy transmutation in 1996) - Ron Brightsen, Clustron Sciences. Claims on their Web site that the "nuclear cluster model" will permit it, and that patents have been filed. - RQM (Raum Quantum Motor) in Switzerland, cf announcement on their web site. I seems that the race is on ! Any bet about the winner ? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin lentin imaginet.fr --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 09:12:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA05467; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33A26B46.498D2654 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:58:30 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Retro TOMI X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <19970614093235.AAA2169 LOCALNAME> <33A28C9C.47A9@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cZxKw2.0.IL1.2Aiep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8269 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jerry wrote: > > Gnorts Vorts! > > Thought with all the flutter about Greg Watsons SMOT, it might be > interesting to compare to the TOMI. I built it and it worked, the > principles are very similar. Chuck Hendersons daughter built one > and entered it in the Science Fair, winning first prize.....check out; > Hi Jerry, Could you give more construction details and self powering criteria (e.g. starting and ending levels and the roll away conditions) on the device that you build. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 09:16:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA05714; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:12:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Magnetocaloric Effects-Experiments Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 16:10:58 +0000 Message-ID: <19970614161056.AAA3310 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"HHe1a3.0.CP1.fBiep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8270 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To Vortex: A magnetocaloric experiment. Stuff needed: 1, Two 25 mm dia. steel balls. 2, A 3" x 1/2" "Cow Magnet" hemispherical ends (very strong)* 3, Egg tongs 4, Boiling Hot water bath 5, Ice water bath Optional: 1, Non-Magnetic Scale or Balance 2, Audio Frequency Signal Generator 3, Magnet Wire (coil) 4, Cobbed up "Boom" (to swing magnet over the ball on the scale) Simple experiment: Place hot and cold balls on flat-level surface separated by approx 1", bring magnet in at the midpoint of separation. Note which ball is grabbed first. Conclusion: HOT Balls are Less Attractive than COLD Ones. *Makes a Great, Low Tech, "STUD FINDER" if dangled from the tip of a short Philips Head Screwdriver. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 09:26:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA08149; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:24:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:24:08 -0700 Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:24:13 +0200 (METDST) Message-Id: <199706141624.SAA24553 imaginet.fr> X-Sender: lentin mail2.imaginet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: IECEC 97 Resent-Message-ID: <"vLsW41.0.E_1.dMiep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8271 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I found alll informations about it on their web sites : http://members.aol.com/busassist/planning.htm http://www.aiche.org/aiche/meeting/1997/ Takes place in Honolulu, july 27th to 31st phone for registration (212) 705-8100 or (800) 242-4363. "special requests" : AIChE headquarters (212) 705-7450 or via fax at (212) 752-3297 or via e-mail at meetmail aiche.org. Wish I would be there, but alas... Best regards to all --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin lentin imaginet.fr --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 10:20:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA13031; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:19:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:19:27 -0700 (PDT) From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:18:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970614131800_553093623 emout18.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Martin's got a point Resent-Message-ID: <"-s5tB3.0.SB3.SAjep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8272 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The only answer is that the reactions do not conserver baryon number. Let me think about it for a while. Frank Znidarsic From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 10:41:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA14703; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:39:46 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:38:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970614133821_-1496560473 emout11.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Pendulum design SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"cu9gW1.0.eb3.UTjep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8273 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For what it's worth, I am going to pursue a pendulum design of the SMOT, if it shows overunity, I will build vacuum chamber with window. (talk about low friction) Butch LaFonte From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 11:26:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA18535; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:19:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:19:47 -0700 (PDT) From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 14:18:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970614141822_1176741984 emout20.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Where did the energy go? Resent-Message-ID: <"u59Lm2.0.TX4.13kep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8274 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Martin and Ellot's comments are well taken. It is something I can relate to. Where did the energy go? Could it be the Baryon number is not conserved? If Baryon number is not conserved electric charge is also not conserved. We just broke two conservation laws. A Mr. Yuck in my book!! Miley has said that endothermic reactions take up the energy. I don't believe that George has considered the neutron problem produced by this approach. Thank you Martin for calling this to my attention. Could the energy just vansih? It appears it has. Is this possible within the realm of the known conservation laws? YES!! Per my paper in IE every bit of positive energy is associated with an equal amount of negative gravitational potential. Something can be created out of nothing and vice versa. As Puthoff says, "It happend at least once!" He is refering to the genesis of the universe. Why does it not happen under ordinary conditions? The process does not conserve angular momentum. Phonons supply the angular momentum to make it happen..per my paper in Fusion Facts. What do we need to do this? A link with gravity. What is happening at Marshall? Gravity control. I hope I get to work with Noever's group we can blow the lid off of this thing. What has Puthoff said in 1985 when asked about the connection between electron clusters and gravity, "I think so to!" When I went down to see Puthoff in 1991 he was stuck on his Casmir ideas. I was stuck on the interactions of an evanscent wave within a condensed system. Again printed in IE. What did I tell Puthff, An electon condensation is a sort of plasma. As such it has an evanscent wavelength. Where does the energy of an evanscent wave go? It just vansihes into nothing. The positive energy and the negative gravitational potential are both gone. Under the right conditions the reverse can happen. The process can be modified to produce electric energy from of nothing. Who did I tell this to? Miley & Jim Reding in Orlando. I'm going to hit it hard at the propulsion conference. Did they believe me? I think so. As to the "reduced to practice" method to make electrical energy out of nothing within a superconductor. I will keep that to myself for the present. Frank Znidarsic From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 11:43:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA20737; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:40:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Pendulum design SMOT Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:36:55 +0000 Message-ID: <19970614183653.AAA26875 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"9G6DZ1.0.w35.1Mkep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8275 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:38 PM 6/14/97 +0000, HLafonte wrote: >For what it's worth, >I am going to pursue a pendulum design of the SMOT, if it shows overunity, I >will build vacuum chamber with window. (talk about low friction) >Butch LaFonte > Good idea, Butch. But, if you put it in a vaccum chamber, figure on a high emissivity coating on the ball, an electric heater for the magnets, LN2 cooling and a high emissivity coating for the walls of the vacuum chamber. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 13:03:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA29785; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:00:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:00:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199706141624.SAA24553 imaginet.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:57:52 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: IECEC 97 Resent-Message-ID: <"iihca3.0.JH7.-Wlep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8276 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean Pierre wrote: > Wish I would be there, but alas... Any other Vortexians going to be there? It's not too far for me (12 miles). Don't know about the registration fee though - it wasn't listed on their web site. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 13:08:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA20278; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:07:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:07:01 -0700 Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:06:57 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: mini-comets alive? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3-DvD3.0.my4.adlep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8277 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Rick Monteverde wrote: > Those dark spots are dark holes in the UV spectrum - they are holes punched > by something. They appear suddenly and then disappear slowly. They have > also been caught on telescopes. I no nothing about the lack of radar > targets, but they are rather loose collections of ice high above a wet > atmosphere - they may not show up well like a nice uW-shiny piece of metal > on systems designed to see just that. Hi Rick! Earlier articles called them "cosmic dust bunnies" rather than comets. Not like ice asteriods, more like snowflakes. I imagine Shoemaker-Levy 9 encountering Jupiter. The energy output from gas compression in its wake caused the Earth-sized explosion plumes and planet-wide travelling waves. Think of Tunguska (if it was indeed a comet). If multi-ton chunks of ice were hitting earth, wouldn't there be some atmospheric explosions? And if they hit the moon, wouldnt' there be constant optical flashes, and small new craters appearing? But if Frank's comets are akin to dust clouds, then I would imagine that their large area and low mass would let them brake quickly. Might they even be stopped by the ionosphere? If a km-per-second dust cloud hits the lunar surface, would the flash be easily detected? I wonder if anyone went looking for lunar flashes. What wavelengths does hypervelocity water give out when it collides with silicates? But... why aren't the mini-comets visible? I would expect a glob of snow to out-albedo anything. And why aren't they outgassing? After all, this is water-ice exposed to sunlight which is more intense than noonday desert daytime. But some comets are low albedo and never develop big tails, presumably because their surfaces are dark and sticky or something. Crazy speculation: if the mini-comets have a black skin, then perhaps the temperature inside is not so low. And there would be a huge temperature difference from sun-side to dark-side. To me that spells... spacegoing organism! Water, available energy, contained in a membrane, maybe low density (requiring some sort of structure, if only snow crystals, but why not aerogel (vacu-gel) instead?), maybe liquid water... and occasional encounters with bacteria-laden dust motes from earth. If the shade/sun temperature difference can drive chemistry, then perhaps the minicomets have been colonized in the way Atlantic rift "black smokers" were. I'm not imagining animals here, instead I'm seeing space-going bacteria colonies, but with enough large scale structure to behave more like plants. Like tufts of damp soot infected with bacteria. Larry Niven's "Smoke-ring" novels might have analog in our own solar system, but with much more primitive forms and without the high pressure gas environment. > Personal anecdote: many years ago while watching the sky on a moonless, > cloudless night far from any city lights, I saw a sort-of meteor - except > that it had no pinpoint head nor consisted of a bright streak of light. It > was just a dim bluish patch of flickery light zooming quickly across 30 > degrees or so of sky. Its apparent diameter was about that of the moon. I recall hearing this type of story before, maybe from Sourcebook Science Frontiers (or did you mention the above observation before?) Come to think of it, I think I heard the term "cosmic dust bunnies" from Science Frontiers. I saw something extremely weird in daytime. It was 8/94, driving to work on I-5. The filmy cirrostratus had a huge hole in it, probably KM across (not tens of KM though), with a small white puff of rising cloud in the exact center. I was imagining a mini-comet exploding and leaving behind a huge vortex ring which punched downwards all the way to stratosphere. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 13:09:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA20408; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:07:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:07:36 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970614161056.AAA3310 LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:06:17 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Thermomagnetism Resent-Message-ID: <"ooa3A.0.k-4.7elep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8278 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Frederick - > A magnetocaloric experiment. There's "thermoelectric", so I figured...yup - right here in the dictionary: thermomagnetic: of or pertaining to the effect of heat on the magnetic properties of a substance. "Magnetocaloric" seems kind of awkward, and wasn't in the dictionary. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 13:29:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA26109; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:24:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:24:34 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33A28C9C.47A9 keelynet.com> References: <19970614093235.AAA2169 LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:23:42 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Retro TOMI Resent-Message-ID: <"4cf752.0.tN6.1ulep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8279 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jerry - The ANE Newsletter of January 1997 has a test of a very carefully constructed TOMI device showing no interesting behavior. The device uses a rolling magnet, not a piece of ferromagnetic material. It doesn't surprise me that the device doesn't work. I'm not sure yet if the SMOTs are doing something, but if they are, it's because they make use of different principles - some sort of lag or non-linear effect in the megnetization of the ferromagnetic domains of magnetically soft steel. Maybe thermomagnetic effects? Something having to do with eddy currents in the aluminum rails affecting the magnetization/demagnetization of the ball as it runs the course? Whatever it is if indeed there is something, the SMOTs are a much richer environment than the TOMI for weird magnetic effects to show up. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 14:08:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA32156; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:59:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:59:29 -0700 Message-ID: <33A320A0.596B keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:52:16 -0700 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Retro TOMI References: <19970614093235.AAA2169 LOCALNAME> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3-PiK2.0.Ms7.mOmep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8280 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Rick! Yes, I am well aware of the ANE report...however, you will note the test bed as shown in the article was FAR from the original TOMI design and therefore not a true test of the principle. The test should faithfully copy the original design to be valid. I understand they were attempting to measure if there was an excess of energy, but what is most important is the use of the magnetic thrust which is reset by gravity when it is reloaded by falling into the next ramp....this makes it an intriguing experiment. Scott Little also did a report on the TOMI as being not overunity...in my opinion, the TOMI in the form described originally by Stewart Harris and copied in the TOMIBILD file simply illustrates an anomaly based on what Stewart calls 'magnetic instability'....I haven't written it off yet because I built it as described and it did what was claimed. Nothing about free energy or overunity, just that it might possibly run itself, unity, and thats a start. Though I've not yet put together a Watson SMOT device with the tapered side rails, it looks like it produces a magnetic gradient, much like the KAWAI patent using Beardens 'regauging'/reloading effect. I plan to build two opposing units, where the ball moves up, then falls into the opposite unit, thereby hoping to see it self-running. I think it was Greg who claimed a run of 3.5 days using such a design. The wonderful thing about all this is the willingness of people to share their ideas and experiments, especially Greg for sharing his results. A shame there are so many who still refuse to build one, rather wanting ever more details, nitpicking the posts or commenting on why it won't or can't work.....that seems to be about 70% to 90% of the mail I see, so it is quickly deleted. The point with dredging up the TOMI again is that it was the first of this ilk and people should be aware of it. It is to Gregs credit that he chose to use the much more stable steel ball as the runner instead of the stacked roller magnets of the TOMI. The bottomline is, they both work and have excited a lot of people....just so... -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 14:34:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA12744; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 14:28:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 14:28:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Thermomagnetism Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:26:50 +0000 Message-ID: <19970614212648.AAA5607 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"EYIJB3.0.073.xpmep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8281 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:06 PM 6/14/97 +0000, Rick wrote: >Frederick - > > > A magnetocaloric experiment. > >There's "thermoelectric", so I figured...yup - right here in the dictionary: > >thermomagnetic: of or pertaining to the effect of heat on the magnetic >properties of a substance. > >"Magnetocaloric" seems kind of awkward, and wasn't in the dictionary. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > I like "thermomagnetic" better too. But, my older (35 years)McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science And Technology, nests it as 'magnetocaloric" right in with magnetism and all such Mag.. science. I'd like to get a new set, but, $2,000 is a bit steep (paid $600 for the original)after forking over $1,200 for a new Britannica set with the CD. Brittannica has an online service for $150.00/year or $15/month. I checked it out, it looks good. Great search engine like the Patent Office web site. It took a while to find the magnetic refrigeration and adiabatic demagnetization articles. If McGraw-Hill Science & Technology does a web page or CD, I'll be there. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 17:38:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA07302; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:22:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:22:35 -0700 Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:17:21 -0400 (EDT) From: lewis edward To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: "DENDRITES questions" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"l_uwr2.0.0o1.ANpep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8283 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: People who have done microscopic studies of parts of electrolysis cells such as Liaw, Silver and Dash, Ohmori and Enyo, Matsumoto, and Bockris seem to have found similar features: cones or protrusions, craters or pits, intergrain and grain-shaped voids, groove markings, ring markings, and dendrites or growths of various types. Dash in particular has found interesting dendrite like growths of various kinds. I discuss this in my web article. I also found similar marks and features upon microscopic study of electrodes and other parts of electrolysis from Prof. Miley's lab. In particular I would wish to call attention to the ring markings and groove markings on the parts of the electrode similar to those found by Matsumoto and K. Shoulders. In particular, these marks may be evidence relating the plasmoid topic (plasmoids were first produced by electrical discharge) to "cold fusion." There are many pictures now on my site www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4946 Check it out. I used a digital camera with a microscope. I would be interested in finding out how this nickle fiber looks under a microscope and in learning about marks other people have found. There are many citations to articles in the articles I put up. On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, Carlos Henry Castano wrote: > > I have a 21st Century, Science & Technology Magazine, there are a paper of > the ICCF2 in Como, Italy. In this article is showed a photograph took for > Bockris of a palladium electrode surface and a structure (dendrite) like > cauliflower, Bockris said that may be this structure are connected with > the excess of heat production. > > In this moment I have available a electronic microscope, and I want look > for some type of structure post-run in my cathode (Nickel Fibrex). > > Can you recommend me how do I look for this?, do you know what type of > structure can I find?, do you know any set of papers that told me about of > this subject? or have you experience about this regards. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 17:39:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA11381; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:38:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:38:26 -0700 Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:37:07 -0400 (EDT) From: lewis edward To: USA-TESLA USA.NET cc: Vortex-L Subject: Re: Microwave plasmoids again (FWD) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xbpdi3.0.hn2.1cpep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8284 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: If people are actually producing these things using a microwave oven, this is really important. Very tiny microscopic plasmoids are also apparently produced via both electrolysis and discharge. Markings that may show that ring shaped things landed on the casing and electrodes and beads of the electrolysis cells in Prof. Miley's lab. have been found. Many pictures are up on my web site: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4946 There are also many groove markings suggesting the motion of something tiny across the surfaces of the components. I've related the plasmoid phenomena to tornadoes. Tornadoes and whirlwinds also leave ditches or some sort of track similar to those shown in the pictures. Prof. Miley has reported the appearance of a broad range of elements in the cells. Monteverde forwarded Moore's message about producing ball lightning to the vortex-l list. > ------------------------begin forewarded message-------------------- > > Reply-To: USA-TESLA list.usa.net > Sender: USA Tesla List > From: James P Moore > To: Multiple recipients of list USA-TESLA > Subject: Kitchen Cooked Ball Lightning > X-Sender: jmoore condor.bcm.tmc.edu > Plasmoids, and since the wax kept the wood going longer, I watched these > things crawl all over the inside of the oven, and some even went across the > ceiling and down the wall, before puffing out! From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 17:52:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA10811; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:40:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:40:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:39:52 -0400 (EDT) From: lewis edward To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Martin's got a point In-Reply-To: <970614131800_553093623 emout18.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"OeFTg1.0.re2.Eepep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8285 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 14 Jun 1997 FZNIDARSIC aol.com wrote: > The only answer is that the reactions do not conserver baryon number. > > Let me think about it for a while. > > Frank Znidarsic > > A few years ago I proposed that atoms are plasmoids and about the non-conservation of baryon number. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 21:32:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA16321; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:25:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:25:10 -0700 From: atech ix.netcom.com Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970615001318.008402bc popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech popd.ix.netcom.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:13:18 +0000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Microwave plasmoids again (FWD) Resent-Message-ID: <"Z75Gc3.0.tz3.Rwsep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8287 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A Dennis C. Lee demonstrated to me this night the production of plasmoids in a microwave oven using a technique similar to that employed by Ralph and Jim. To do this experiment, a small plastic cylinder (1.5cm x 3cm) was used as a base with a rubber band securing a match and a .5mm graphite pencil lead about 5cm long. After this structure was placed into the microwave oven, the match was lighted, the door was closed, and the power was turned on. The results were spectacular. At 06:44 PM 6/12/97 -1000, you wrote: >Gnorts - > >Seems soemone over on the Tesla list has had some spectacular success with >the plasmoid experiments: >------------------------begin forewarded message-------------------- > >Reply-To: USA-TESLA list.usa.net >Sender: USA Tesla List >From: James P Moore >To: Multiple recipients of list USA-TESLA >Subject: Kitchen Cooked Ball Lightning >X-Sender: jmoore condor.bcm.tmc.edu >X-To: USA-TESLA list.usa.net >Date: Thu, 12 Jun 97 17:33:17 +0000 >Mime-Version: 1.0 > >At 03:59 AM 6/12/97 GMT, you wrote: >>On Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:09:42 -0500, James P Moore >>, you wrote: >> >>[snip] >> >>>Very interesting.... i wonder if Ralph was pullin our legs? >> >>Don't know just, I couldn't recreate his experiment. >> >>>If not, then >>>we need more info on the type of his microwave, power rating, and if it >>>had a rotating platform. Did your oven rotate? >>NO, my oven is quit stationary on the kitchen counter as it ran;) >>Yes, mine has a rotating platter in it. I however, placed the candle >>and match very near the center of the platter. >> >> >> jim >>>I havn't tried it yet, but >>>after your report is in stark conflict with Ralphs.... tonight is the night, >>>for my trial run. My oven rotates, if this makes any difference. We'll see >>>what mine does. later........... > >Well Jim I produced some amazing Simulated Ball Lightning last night! The >Ralph protocol WORKS, well! I tried a small one inch tall candle, after >removing the metal wick retainer at the bottom, and placed it in a small >ceramic bowl, light it and place the MW on high. Watched for almost a minute, >and nothing happens, as you reported. I was discouraged! My MW also has >a rotating carousel, and so I removed that and tried again, and nothing! > >So... I placed a round wooden toothpick in a makeshift plastic holder, light >it and cranked the MW on high, after watching for 10-15 seconds, things >began to happen! First a little sputtering from the previously burn wood >charcoal-flame interface zone.... then some brilliant white flashes from >the charcoal, then ERUPTION..... BBBOOOOZZZUUUMMMM.... a purple sphere >popped out of the white flash, and rose to the roof, and rolled around >briefly, before being sucked toward the intake for the ventilation fan! > >This was stationary with no rotation, then the purple buzzzzing spheres >began to erupt with more intensity and frequency, as the toothpick burned >down. I was too involved in watching these plasmoid fire balls roll around >the oven, to notice that the small wooden stick had burned into the plastic >holder, and when that happened WOW, talk about plasma balls........... > >I thought that the oven might not withstand such a quantity of frolicking >ionized plasma, pervading the domain, so I shut it off, and extinguished >the weakly burning plastic. This was so exciting that I had to try variations >in an attempt to understand what was happening, and why the candle did not >work, but the wood did. Also the buzzzzing noise seemed to be coming from >the Ionized Plasmoids, and not the transformer, but I could be wrong. > >After thinking a bit and deciding that carbon must have a key role to play >in this phenomenon, I decided to take the small candle and poke a toothpick >into the wax so that the wick and the wooden pick, were making contact. >When I tried this, on a rotated plate, I got nicely space and somewhat smaller >Plasmoids, and since the wax kept the wood going longer, I watched these >things crawl all over the inside of the oven, and some even went across the >ceiling and down the wall, before puffing out! > >This was great fun, but my mind was still cooking, so......... I kept thinking >sooty smoke from the plastic was a good source but too toxic, wood which >left a >good matrix of carbon, was also a good fuel for the plasmoids, now what else >could be used......? I set down for a while popped a top, and let the MW, >cool >down a bit, because when I felt the walls inside, they were very warm. > >After downing half my brew... I went for the old empty bag of charcoal >briquettes >that I had not thrown away after last weekends barbecued chicken. After >shaking >it a bit I inverted it over a large plate and obtained a nice quantity of >simi- >powdered carbon to play with, working on the hypothesis that vaporized carbon, >was an underlying factor in obtaining good ionized Plasmoids. > >Tried placing the powdered carbon an a rotated and non-rotated plate, and >nothing. >Then I remembered what Ed had said about steel wool doing something in the MW. >So I place a small dab of SW on the rotating plate fired up the HF-RF and the >SW, began to sparkle a bit as it slowly burned, but no Synthetic Ball >Lightning. >You can guess what the next logical thing to do was............ FINISH THE >BEER, >right? NO..... I sprinkles the charcoal powder sparsely about on another >dab of >steel wool, with a small pile in the center, and fired up the MW on high >again, >in rotating mode. > >Well..... the wool began to burn, then I saw little white sparks popping >out from >various regions of the wool, and I assumed that these were specks of carbon >that >were ignited, by the combusting steel wool. Soon.... some Plasmoids began to >materialize and buzz about the oven, as with the wood, but they became more >vigorous and persisted longer before fading from existence, after the >carbonized >steel had burned for a while, the reaction continued to intensify, one of the >Plasmoids must have lasted for 4-5sec, and was the size of not a golf ball... >but an orange, and was very beautiful. > >This particular Plasmoid went to the top of the oven as usual after erupting, >then crawled down the wall, and went back to the top and found a place >near the front of the oven, by the door about 4 inches from my dumb-founded >wide open eyes, then proceeded to remain stationary, and was quite spherical! >It persisted for so long, that I was afraid that since it was remaining in >one spot, that it would damage the MW, so I shut the experiment down! >WOWWWW, what a site that one was!!! > >After examining the inside of the oven for damage from this most beautiful >Ball Of Plasma, I did find a tiny spot that corresponded to it's favorite >spot, and although most of the spot wiped off, there did appear to be the >beginning of an electrically etched surface erosion in the porcelain coating >or what ever it is on the inside of the oven. It looked almost like a tiny >arc welded spot. Well after last night fun, I BELIEVE EVERY WORD THAT RALPH >RELATED to the list!!! > >I do believe that vaporized or ionized carbon is a key factor in successfully >creating these interesting Plasmoids, that may have a LOT in common with >natural Ball Lightning? Tesla was rumored to use powder carbon, in his >creation of Laboratory Ball Lightning. However, to my knowledge, nobody has >ever reproduced his technique, in doing this. > >Now thanks to modern MW oven technology, maybe scientists can easily >create and study these interesting Plasma phenomena, under controlled >conditions, to find out more about the mystery of Ball Lightning, >and other related plasma phenomena? This rarely observed phenomenon, is >poorly documented, and even more poorly understood! > >Based on what little that I have observed last night.... >I would bet that if a person could find a way to place a High Voltage >carbon arc, inside a microwave chamber that some really awesome Laboratory >Ball Lightning could be produced! By vaporization of carbon, by the HV arc, >while in the electric field of a MW cavity! > >There also may be different MW frequencies that alter or >enhance the properties of these interesting Plasmoid Phenomena? I hope that >someone will want to study this in a truly scientific way, if it hasn't >been done previously, and to my knowledge, it hasn't. IMO, there might be >some useful information that might be obtained by a detailed scientific >study of this interesting phenomenon! Ralph... you speak the TRUTH!!! ;) > >JPM > >-----------------------end message---------------------- > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 22:21:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA02648; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:16:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:16:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science and Technology CD. Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:09:57 +0000 Message-ID: <19970615000955.AAA5319 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"my-BX1.0.Hf.fgtep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8288 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hey Rick: The Encyclopedia is on CD. Look at; www.mcgraw-hill.com....... Apparently lots of goodies. Now if we could use it on the net for a few dollars/month! Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 22:27:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA23328; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:21:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:21:29 -0700 From: HLafonte aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:49:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970615004946_-1596348819 emout09.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Pendulum design SMOT Resent-Message-ID: <"dKlOF3.0.xh5.Nltep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8290 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Run that by me again Frederick. Why will I need these things? Butch From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 14 22:27:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA23172; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:21:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:21:20 -0700 Message-Id: <33A33652.CA35AE76 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 04:24:50 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Re: SMOTs and lift-dropaway=rollaway testing X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Uf_9x.0.hf5.Dltep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8289 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg, I am hurry for the SMOT Mark II. Could you post us a beta release design? Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 00:56:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA16172; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:30:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:30:20 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970614212648.AAA5607 LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:25:33 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Thermomagnetism Resent-Message-ID: <"PVC483.0.Uy3.Bevep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8291 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick - > It took a while to find the magnetic refrigeration > and adiabatic demagnetization articles. I'm sorry, I didn't wuite understand this from your post - were these articles on the Britannica service or did you find them somewhere else? Do you have any electronic copies you might pass along on the magnetic refrigeration or adiabatic demagnetization? By the way, I made a section of track today out of acrylic and tried running a ball through a magnet array with it both with and without aluminum channel positioned along either side near the track between the track and the magnets. I couldn't see any difference in the initial distance the ball surges out beyond the magnets before snapping back in a series of oscillations, but the following oscillations did seem very slightly damped with the channels in place. Not really very much difference though. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 00:59:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA23436; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:51:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33A320A0.596B keelynet.com> References: <19970614093235.AAA2169 LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:49:18 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Retro TOMI Resent-Message-ID: <"j66pi3.0.6k5.1yvep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8293 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jerry - I was unaware that the ANE tested device was not a 'real' TOMI - figures. I kow myself how hard it is to follow the recipe! I'm not completely convinced yet on the SMOTs, but I know I've seen something strange when I can get a pair of ramps to link. I just need more time to do a series of them and see if I cna get enough altitude gain for a rollback. *Then* I'll know for sure. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 00:59:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA23059; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:47:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:43:43 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: mini-comets alive? Resent-Message-ID: <"vbVMj2.0.9e5.Buvep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8292 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A Bill - > If multi-ton chunks of ice were hitting earth, > wouldn't there be some atmospheric explosions? We've had 'em! off South Africa, off Japan - that thing the airline pilots saw? Thought it was a nuke's mushroom cloud. > And if they hit the moon, wouldnt' there be constant > optical flashes, and small new craters appearing? Again - isn't that happening? People are always reporting various little flashes puffs and things on the moon. The instruments left on the moon registered lots of hit from something - maybe rocks, maybe ice. Anyway, most of the Frank comets are supposed to be disintegrating higer up - 600 miles or so. I'd think an occasional husky one would punch down further though. > I saw something extremely weird in daytime. It > was 8/94, driving to work on I-5. The filmy > cirrostratus had a huge hole in it, probably KM > across (not tens of KM though), with a small white > puff of rising cloud in the exact center. I was > imagining a mini-comet exploding and leaving > behind a huge vortex ring which punched > downwards all the way to stratosphere. Cool! That's what I'm talking about, about the mushroom clouds. I saw a good photo of one of these on one of the UFO websites - It looks sort of like a classic domed disc, but you can tell it's a bizarre little billowing cloud, and it has a little trail under it marking how it had just risen up. Not talking about that famous lenticular cloud formation either. This one looks sort of like a jellyfish shape with a single tentacle under it. If I can find a reference to the site I'll post it. Yes, I might have posted before about the unusual patch of light sighting I had. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 01:13:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA24917; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:34:33 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex cc: John Schnurer Subject: Re: radiation reduction (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"P-1Qu1.0.M16.RSsep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8286 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:27:09 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer Dear Vo., If you go to www.Patent.womplex.ibm Then you be be at the IBM patent server. It is a pretty good, and free, patent search. And it allows you to down load many of the patents. If you use the number search for USPTO # 14961880 You get a good background patent with all the imformation. 37 pages, with images and text can be downloaded. I went the extra mile and contacted the patent firm and finally got one of the Barkers and asked, and recieved, their blessing. PLEASE: Read the patent first!!! If you don't have www access you can order it from USPTO. Please see notes and comments, below; On Sat, 14 Jun 1997, George H. Miley wrote: > I noticed in a recent posting that you talked about prior work and patents > on radiation reduction by Wm. Barker. Could you send me some references to > this work? Also you say something about a class there repeating it. when was > that? A class did not repeat it. My position at Anticoh College is variable depending on politics and personalities at any given time. I seek students with interest and see if they want to do work, as co-equal partners ... and NOT as drudges with my name first. If anyone else wants to do this, and if you want to further future work, let me know and we can, again, plug in a student or students and find the equipment you need and ship it to you. This will allow the students some real world exposure aand we would tack on a little for their time. What we did: I pitched a student, now a graduate of Antioch and he agreed to help build the set up and help take data. This is how I teach. And do real work. We modified Barker's set up and used a mineral specimen that was radioactive. In this work I did not care about 6 decimal places resolution, I just wanted to see if it worked. If you read the patent you will see the effect is profound. The approach is what I call by several names; Hardball, nuts and bolts, belt and suspenders engineering Cavendish .... as in Wilson, J. J. Thompson and so on..... these folks did not have a lot of the gear to do what they wanted, it did not exist, so they built it. Arbitrary or skunk works engineering. I was very lucky to be able to do a lot of this at Wright Patterson US Air Force Basee and other places in my life. WHAT WE DID: We modified Barkers set up and used a radioactive mineral speciment. The rock was broken carefully while being wrapped to prevent dust inhalation and other precautions were taken. If you are not experienced in handling radioactive materials DO NOT DO THIS !!! Get help. The speciment was wrapped in plastic and a G-M counter was placed near the source within the whole apparatus. It was not moved. We treated for 14 hours and no further treatment was used. Just the 14 hours. we took counts by placing a tape recorder against the outside of the rig, so as not to disturb anything. By 9 months the effect was easily heard by lay persons listening to the beginning of the run tapes VS later tapes. JHS The rest of the story: the mineral was like a pop corn popper at the beginning ..... and now it is so waek and tired it is barely above background. It is postulated this was radium or strontium isotope subtituted periclase .... best guess. We have a follow on plan, provided we can interest anyone. I cannot afford to do the work. J From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 02:17:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA02077; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A3A9EE.50F8 microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 18:08:06 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Neutral Zones, Gary, SMOT, Coler References: <97Jun10.140232bst.74884 gatehouse.powys.gov.uk> <19970331.074033.8622.0.tv@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pfcsf.0.LW.L6xep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8296 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Tim D Vaughan wrote: > > On Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:04:50 +0100 Geoff Greaves > writes: > > >Documentation on Gary's neutral line mentions a shielding effect; did > >you confirm this aspect as well as/or polarity reversal, Tim? > > > >Cheers, geoff greaves > > Hi Geoff, > > Yes, I did see the shielding effect when I made a teeter-totter > arrangment, > with two sets of magnets with opposite poles facing each other, just like > is shown in the diagram in the article about Gary. > ( figure 2 in the Gary Article, see web page: > < http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4810 > ) > > It may be described as a shielding effect or an induced magnetism in the > iron piece. Which I think is the same thing. It seems that at the > "neutral point" > opposite magnetizations are induced in the piece of iron (steel) that > result > in net zero magnetization of the iron. That is why the small pins and > paper > clips fall off just like it describes in the article. (fig. 1 in Gary > article) > > The next step would be to try to build reciprocating mechanism described > in > the article. According to the article this is a tricky machine to > adjust, just > like the SMOT. Although I am fairly convinced that the SMOT and the > Gary Magnet > motor work, I would sure like to see one of these machines run ! > > I am still fiddling with the ramps. I think I am going to invest in one > of those > kits from Greg Watson. > > Even though it is fun to speculate on the cause of the Watson, Gary, and > Coler phenomena, it is really premature since each of these have only > been demonstrated by individuals. They need to be replicated by more > than one person. Although I dont, one could always argue that > the inventors had/have telekinetic abilities or ghosts or something. One > could also argue that there is some kind of trick, but I don't see what > any > of these inventors would gain from this. Greg Watson, Han Coler, and > Wesley Gary all were very open about sharing there ideas and > demonstrating > there devices in working form. > > Lets keep trying to replicate some sort of closed loop SMOT but if this > does not happen, Greg, Could one of us come to Australia and see > your invention and act as a reporter. Take measurements and videos > etc... ? NO need Tim, the SMOT Mark II ramps will answer the question! > Tim Vaughan > ( tv juno.com ) -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 02:17:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA27574; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:10:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:10:21 -0700 Message-ID: <33A3AAE1.52CA microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 18:12:09 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Real Time SMOT sims] References: <199706040305.WAA15412 dsm7.dsmnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZOidR2.0.hk6.x5xep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8299 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dean T. Miller wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:35:38 +0930 > > From: Greg Watson > Hi Greg, Epitaxy, > > gwatson microtronics.com.au wrote: > > > Anyone know any more about this magic magnetic field analysis paper? > > > > I would like to get a supply and include it in ALL SMOT kits. Should > > help ALL of us better adjust our SMOT ramps. > > American Science & Supply has what they call "Magnetic Film" which is a 25 x > 50 mm (1 x 2 inch) piece consisting of 2 layers of plastic inside which is > laminated a mixture of powdered iron, nickel and steel suspended in oil > droplets. > > It's described on page 19 of their Feb, 1996 catalog (#101) and their catalog > number is 10273 -- each piece is priced at $1.50 US. > > Their phone is 847-982-0870 and address is: > > American Science & Surplus > 3605 Howard Street > Skokie IL 60076 > > I ran across this item about 10 minutes before I read your message as I was > scouring my catalogs looking for better magnets. > > -- Dean -- from Des Moines (KB0ZDF) Hi Dean, I will include this material n the SMOT kits. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 02:18:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA02165; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A3A973.3C00 microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 18:06:03 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Word of Encouragement and a question References: <19970330.214115.11006.0.tv juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"98BTG.0.gX.a6xep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8298 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Tim D Vaughan wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > Your ideas and help to others have been a great encouragement > to me to further investigate for myself what I have long thought > of as a most promising new way to produce energy. Thank You ! > > I take it from your most recent postings of GIF's of RMOD that you > are trying to get others to think along those lines. There are probably > quite a few who are just now getting started on investigating the > SMOT and others like myself who have been playing with ramps > and magnets for a couple of weeks. So far I have managed to link > ramps but roll away eludes me. One of your kits is probably a > good investment. I will let you know when I send the money order. > > They are very fussy mechanisms. But I am fairly convinced that something > is happening in the ball or iron strip (or both) that is adding a small > amount > of energy to the ball each time it goes through the ramp. Obviously > your closed loop units prove this. Please, just as a way to encourage > those that are still on the fence and waiting to see what happens > before taking SMOTs seriously enough to investigate, could you > put a picture on your web page of the closed loop unit ? A moving > AVI file would be slick but still would be good as well. The SMOT Mark II ramps are being designed to do a simple to do rollaway. > I am having quite a time fitting together a reasonable design out > of PVC pipe, plexiglass, and race car bearings. I wish to try a ferris > wheel RMOD version. Do you think it is nessessary to have a "seat " > for each ball on the "ferris wheel" or can the balls just sit on each > other > around inside bottom half of the rotating cylinder ? The balls on the "Ferris wheel" can't touch each other. If they do so, much force is required to part them. I speak from experience! Seems there is an "underunity" effect in operation here. More force required to seperate than oppose attraction! But that's the power of ferromagnetics!!!!!!!!!!!! Try testing the force of attraction on the face of the arrays, then test the force on the top or bottom of the arrays on the back steel strip. The force of breaking the attraction is 4-6 times as great!!!!!!!!!!! The steel backing strip, via its soft domain alignment, results in a much greater force to pull the ball away from the back than the front. > Tim Vaughan > Modesto, California > > tv juno.com ( my every day mail ) > > for attachments send to: < tim.vaughan ccc0infonet.edu >. > ( work email at College, allows attachments but is clumsey to use > until it gets fixed ) -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 02:18:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA02230; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:11:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:11:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A3AC82.131C microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 18:19:06 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT Kit Offer and Web Agents Update 2nd June, 1997 References: <33921D32.73CC microtronics.com.au> <3394579C.562B@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LuTO82.0.lY.o6xep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8300 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Ronald de Mol wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WEB SITE OFFER <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > > > Web sites who WISH to display this SMOT Kit offer AND qualify to receive > > FREE SMOT Kits, the details are as follows : > > > > When I receive orders, I will enquire of the purchaser > > via which Web site they became aware of the SMOT. For > > every 5 orders I receive via your Web site, I will sent > > you a FREE Smot kit. This sort of makes you my agent > > on a 20% commission. You are able to onsell the SMOT > > kits if you so wish. If you have already purchased a > > SMOT kit for yourself, I will refund your money. > > > > I will have photos of the finished SMOT kits available with-in a week. > > > > > > > > Best Regards, Good Smoting to all, > > Greg > > Hi Greg, > > I keep the 'Get your own kit' on my page, But anounce on it that if > someone makes a order on it, that they can give the (random) name of > one of the other WebHolders. > > Oke ? Sure, but you still deserve a "FREE" SMOYT kit. > If you have send out enough kits out, and think you can spare ONE, > it's ok if you send ONE kit to me, thats really enough for me... OK. its yours! > P.S.: > I have re-read some of the messages of You,Hal Puthoff,Barry Merriman > and my own, and they give roughly a outcome to me something like this: > 1) On the place where the ball is (in realtime), the field that would > have otherwise been there is (mostly) canceled out. Sucken in. > 2) Locally (around the ball) the field is amplified, to more than > twice the normal field strength (I think). (see *a) Much more. > It now looks like if this is happening: > > 1) The field inside the ball is pushed out (of the intaken ball space). The soft domains align and cause this. > 2) The push-out gifs a propulsion in all directions out of the ball. Yes. > 3) Because the ramps field strength (between the bars) is downwards less > than upwards, the netto propulsion force of the ball is in a upwards > direction (Ramp up). Yes. > (*a) > You put a magnet in a closed box (theoretical closed of all influence), > and calculate the TOTAL field (flux) of the magnet in the box. > Now you put a soft iron object near-by the magnet in the box. > The iron becomes now temporary a magnet. > Is the TOTAL field (flux) inside the closed box now more,less or the same ? .More. Proof is in the Rod & Coil discussion. > Maybe it's nothing, But if so, then either the field exist out of > particles, or there is a carrier that carries the flux, and is distorted > highly by soft iron (I vote for the 2nd). Amplified is the answer. > P.S.2: Don't worry, my bunch of 13*10*4.9 magnets arrive soon! ( I Hope ), > and can do then some real work... :-) > > -- > Best Regards, > Ronald. Hi Ronald, Soon I will publish the SMOT Mark II plans and all can do a rollaway! -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 02:19:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA02023; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A3A6CA.1C83 microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 17:54:42 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT Energy Measurments References: <19970329.215954.8598.1.tv juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"63Fdn2.0.LV.B6xep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8294 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Tim D Vaughan wrote: > > Fellow SMOTE enthusiasts, > > I have been doing some preliminary comparisons of the > kinetic energy of the ball from a SMOTE ramp. I have a well > behave ramp. I wanted to compare the kinetic energy of > a ball falling from the launch point to the kinetic energy > of a ball falling from the end of the ramp. > > Using an impulse method, it seems that the ball gains about > 5 percent more kinetic energy after going over the ramp as compared > to the just dropping it from the launch point which is the place where > a ball just begins to get "sucked" up the ramp. I can only give > a ratio because my instrument is not calibrated yet. > > A very accurate way to determine the kinetic energy of the ball would be > to time it electronically after it falls from the ramp and compare it > with the ball falling from the launch point. > > I want to do this but I am working on a rotary version (Mark I ) type > first. > > Thank You Greg for all the fun ! My wife thinks I am loosing my marbles > ! > > Tim Vaughan > (tv juno.com) > > ( send attachments to [ tim.vaughan ccc-infonet.edu ] ) HI Tim, My wife agrees. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 02:18:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA27458; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:10:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:10:01 -0700 Message-ID: <33A3A67B.4B89 microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 17:53:23 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Rotary SMOT attemp References: <19970329.212755.8598.0.tv juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"em7MU1.0.ui6.e5xep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8297 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Tim D Vaughan wrote: > > Hi Greg and other SMOT builders, > > I have a well behaved ramp that I think might have a chance at working > in a rotary version. It uses 1 7/8 inch by 3/8 inch by 3/8 inch ceramic > ( approx. 50 mm x 10 mm x 10 mm) > magnets that are stacked two deep by two wide with a piece of 1/8 inch > by 1/2 inch (3 mm x 13 mm)x iron strip between them. Interestingly, > it seems to work better with the strip between instead of behind. > > The ramp is 3.5 inches (90 mm) long. The balls I use are 5/8 inch > (16 mm). The track is 1/2 inch ( 13 mm) aluminum U channel. > > I have linked it to another track. Very touchy. Occasionally I get a > roll > away but not sure whether I impart a tiny bit of extra energy with my > finger. > This ramp is very good at dropping the ball off the end to about 1mm > above level > or below. It seems I might have a possibility of trying the > rotary arrangement like you (Greg) posted. > > My idea is to build a cylinder with a hub on one end consisting of > two disks with model race car ball bearings in the center of a shaft > attached through center of disk to race car bearings The open > end of cylinder would contain the race track with balls. The ramp > and magnets would be inserted in the end. This way adjustments > could be made. > > Does this sound reasonable as a way to recycle balls ? I thought it > might be > worth a try since ball falls off the ramp so well. > > Tim Vaughan > (tv juno.com) Hi Tim, While level rollways are all the rage, few have though about ball recovery systens which work by the ball dropping straight down. If you think about the dynamics of such systems, you can do a loop. Good luck, keep me informed. Drop downs are a real way to go. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 02:18:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA27365; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:09:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 02:09:49 -0700 Message-ID: <33A3AA7B.77B4 microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 18:10:27 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Not all balls are created equal References: <19970403.124257.9910.1.tv juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"x9xnm3.0.Uh6.S5xep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8295 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Tim D Vaughan wrote: > > I found something interesting. I have a ramp that will work with one > ball > but not another of the same size and manufacture. One ball shoots over > the ramp, the other does not even make it all the way up the ramp. > > They are both clean new 5/8 inch ball bearings with no visible defects > from > the same box that I just bought from the bearing store. > > You might try several different balls to compare > how they behave. > > Tim Vaughan Hi Tim, You have been busy, I have observed the same effect. I "Select" my balls for min residual magnetism. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 05:45:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA13301; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 05:44:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 05:44:28 -0700 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 08:41:03 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex , John Schnurer Subject: Errata: radiation reduction See correction Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"vZJ7d.0.lF3.hE-ep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8301 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Dear Vo., > If you go to www.Patent.womplex.ibm Use the number search for ***************************************************8> Correction: See USPTO 4,961,880 Correct number > USPTO # 14961880 Wrong number John From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 07:26:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA22198; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 07:22:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 07:22:27 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: ben clubelite.com (Ben Tammetta) To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:22:15 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Not all balls are created equal Reply-to: tammetta mindspring.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <33A3AA7B.77B4 microtronics.com.au> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Message-ID: <19970615143032510.AAA332 jumanji> Resent-Message-ID: <"nYmjl1.0.iQ5.Yg_ep" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8302 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, > Tim D Vaughan wrote: > > > > I found something interesting. I have a ramp that will work with one > > ball > > but not another of the same size and manufacture. One ball shoots over > > the ramp, the other does not even make it all the way up the ramp. > > > > They are both clean new 5/8 inch ball bearings with no visible defects > > from > > the same box that I just bought from the bearing store. > > > > You might try several different balls to compare > > how they behave. > > > > Tim Vaughan > > Hi Tim, > > You have been busy, I have observed the same effect. I "Select" my > balls for min residual magnetism. > > -- > Best Regards, > Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ I had noticed the same thing.... and even stranger..... also noticed that one ball would gradually make it higher and higher up the ramp each time i placed it at the start... until finally it went over.... (between 5-7 times) and if i'm not mistaken it seemed to have repeat the same process. Once we get working SMOTs will some of these strange occurances come into play to negate any OU effects we now observe? Ben ben clubelite.com ###################### # Ben Tammetta # # ben clubelite.com # ###################### From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 10:06:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA11237; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:01:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:01:42 -0700 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:01:35 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: mini-comets alive? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"12GY92.0.Ul2.r_1fp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8303 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 14 Jun 1997, Rick Monteverde wrote: > Bill - > > > If multi-ton chunks of ice were hitting earth, > > wouldn't there be some atmospheric explosions? > > We've had 'em! off South Africa, off Japan - that thing the airline pilots > saw? Thought it was a nuke's mushroom cloud. Yeah, but yearly, not many per day. But then I don't know if Earth gets lots of multi-ton *meteor* hits per day. If it does, then the lack of constant explosions from iron/rocky objects would have the same explanation as the lack of bangs from comets. > > And if they hit the moon, wouldnt' there be constant > > optical flashes, and small new craters appearing? > Again - isn't that happening? People are always reporting various little > flashes puffs and things on the moon. The instruments left on the moon > registered lots of hit from something - maybe rocks, maybe ice. I dunno. One of the objections to mini-comets mentioned in the news was that the lunar sensors *weren't* picking up the multi-ton minicomet flux. If they make optical flashes, I would think that even an amateur scope, if equipped with a single photodetector and audio amp, would pick up the clicks and snaps of these big lunar strikes. (but maybe no one has though to listen to lunar light?) > > I saw something extremely weird in daytime. It > > was 8/94, driving to work on I-5. > > Cool! That's what I'm talking about, about the mushroom clouds. I saw a > good photo of one of these on one of the UFO websites - It looks sort of > like a classic domed disc, but you can tell it's a bizarre little billowing > cloud, and it has a little trail under it marking how it had just risen up. > Not talking about that famous lenticular cloud formation either. This one > looks sort of like a jellyfish shape with a single tentacle under it. Hey, that's what MY cloud looked like! Except it was tiny, maybe tens or couple hundred meters across (couldn't judge the height). It was a little glob, just very slightly donut shaped (more like cauliflower shape), but with a couple of obvious mist-tentacles hanging below, suggesting a jellyfish or rising mushroom. The surrounding area was clear, and the filmy clouds at the edges of this clear circle seemed to be turned upwards, as if a large warm sphere was rising from below. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 10:16:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA06620; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 19:09:19 +0200 (METDST) Message-Id: <199706151709.TAA18872 imaginet.fr> X-Sender: lentin mail2.imaginet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Troy Reed magnetic car Resent-Message-ID: <"bimdi.0.Hd1.n72fp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8304 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Vorts, I just saw the new 110 minute video "Free energy, the race to Zero point". Nice effort, lots of interesting people and devices. One segment particularly caught my attention, the part about magnet motors. There's Joe Newman, there's GalTech, but what I found really impressive was Troy Reed & Dennis Weaver's demonstration of their prototype of an electric car, "The Source", powered by a magnet motor. Troy Reed says that he hopes to commercialize this car and other magnet motors very soon. Now, doesn't that beat the Japanese, Kawai or the Takahashi SciEx scooter ?!!! Is this guy for real ???????? Regards to all --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin lentin imaginet.fr --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 10:43:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA13381; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:13:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:13:12 -0700 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 13:09:36 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: mini-comets alive? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"FUCCb3.0._G3.dA2fp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8305 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A Dear Vo., I have listened to lunar light and the light from comets. I use a 19 inch searchlight mirror and photodetector with compound discrete and integrated circuit amplifier. Every thing makes wonderful sounds ... all different .... I am going to try for lightning bugs soon. JHS Anyone interested we can kit up mirrors of various sizes, amps, detectors in various wavelengths, and so on. On Sun, 15 Jun 1997, William Beaty wrote: > On Sat, 14 Jun 1997, Rick Monteverde wrote: > > > Bill - > > > > > If multi-ton chunks of ice were hitting earth, > > > wouldn't there be some atmospheric explosions? > > > > We've had 'em! off South Africa, off Japan - that thing the airline pilots > > saw? Thought it was a nuke's mushroom cloud. > > Yeah, but yearly, not many per day. But then I don't know if Earth gets > lots of multi-ton *meteor* hits per day. If it does, then the lack of > constant explosions from iron/rocky objects would have the same > explanation as the lack of bangs from comets. > > > > And if they hit the moon, wouldnt' there be constant > > > optical flashes, and small new craters appearing? > > > Again - isn't that happening? People are always reporting various little > > flashes puffs and things on the moon. The instruments left on the moon > > registered lots of hit from something - maybe rocks, maybe ice. > > I dunno. One of the objections to mini-comets mentioned in the news was > that the lunar sensors *weren't* picking up the multi-ton minicomet flux. > If they make optical flashes, I would think that even an amateur scope, if > equipped with a single photodetector and audio amp, would pick up the > clicks and snaps of these big lunar strikes. (but maybe no one has though > to listen to lunar light?) > > > > I saw something extremely weird in daytime. It > > > was 8/94, driving to work on I-5. > > > > Cool! That's what I'm talking about, about the mushroom clouds. I saw a > > good photo of one of these on one of the UFO websites - It looks sort of > > like a classic domed disc, but you can tell it's a bizarre little billowing > > cloud, and it has a little trail under it marking how it had just risen up. > > Not talking about that famous lenticular cloud formation either. This one > > looks sort of like a jellyfish shape with a single tentacle under it. > > Hey, that's what MY cloud looked like! Except it was tiny, maybe tens > or couple hundred meters across (couldn't judge the height). It was a > little glob, just very slightly donut shaped (more like cauliflower > shape), but with a couple of obvious mist-tentacles hanging below, > suggesting a jellyfish or rising mushroom. The surrounding area was > clear, and the filmy clouds at the edges of this clear circle seemed to be > turned upwards, as if a large warm sphere was rising from below. > > > .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. > William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 > EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ > Seattle, WA 98117 billb eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 11:25:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA12431; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 11:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 11:09:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Thermomagnetism Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 12:17:25 +0000 Message-ID: <19970615121723.AAA6672 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"l7uxV1.0.523.k_2fp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8306 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:25 AM 6/15/97 +0000, Rick wrote: >Frederick - > > > It took a while to find the magnetic refrigeration > > and adiabatic demagnetization articles. > >I'm sorry, I didn't quite understand this from your post - were these >articles on the Britannica service or did you find them somewhere else? Do >you have any electronic copies you might pass along on the magnetic >refrigeration or adiabatic demagnetization? The magnetic refrigeration and adiabatic demagnetization articles were in the McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science and Technology. But the Britannica articles on magnetism are very enlightening also, as usual. Sorry, I don't have a scanner, yet. :-( >From what is in the literature with the various compositions of the alloys used for the balls, it is no surprise that there could be significant differences in behavior related to thermomagnetic properties. > >By the way, I made a section of track today out of acrylic and tried >running a ball through a magnet array with it both with and without >aluminum channel positioned along either side near the track between the >track and the magnets. I couldn't see any difference in the initial >distance the ball surges out beyond the magnets before snapping back in a >series of oscillations, but the following oscillations did seem very >slightly damped with the channels in place. Not really very much difference >though. >From the literature and off the top of the head: 1, the PMs can put more magnetism-force into a cold ball(less thermal disarray?)than a warmer one. 2, increased magnetization warms the ball as it goes through the array gaining momentum. 3, the exiting ball is warmer and thus feels a lessor "recall" attraction, thus an unsymetrical situation. 4, the ball goes around the loop cooling and losing magnetism through convection and possibly EM agitation, thus making a cycle. Meanwhile the PMs recover the energy-heat given to the ball, from the surrounding air. The Carnot "heat engine" cycle efficiency here is working at a delta T of less than 1 deg K, so (Th - Tc)/Th or say (300 - 299.5)/300 = 0.5/300 or about 0.166 percent thermal efficiency. Not enough to consider for a 747 power-plant but, great for a SMOT! :-) Regards, Frederick > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 16:18:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA02144; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 16:17:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 16:17:20 -0700 Message-ID: <33A47586.73A2 microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 08:36:46 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT test report form Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zqOFx3.0.FX.zV7fp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8307 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I am setting up another page showing various SMOT test results. The idea is to spread the information and test results around and have a central location for SMOT data. If you have built a SMOT ramp, would you please fill in the following form : If you have built multiple / linked ramps, use multiple reports. 1) Magnet Array Height ........... _______________ 2) Magnet Array Width ............ _______________ 3) Magnet Array Length ........... _______________ 4) Magnet Material ............... _______________ 5) Backing Strip Height .......... _______________ 6) Backing Strip Width ........... _______________ 7) Backing Strip Length .......... _______________ 8) Ramp Lift ..................... _______________ 9) Ramp Width (Inside) ........... _______________ 10) Ramp Length ................... _______________ 11) Ramp Material ................. _______________ 12) Ramp top exit radius .......... _______________ 13) Ramp Bottom exit radius ....... _______________ 14) Ball Size ..................... _______________ 15) Ball Material ................. _______________ 16) Ball Finish ................... _______________ 17) Bottom Spacing ................ _______________ 18) Top Spacing ................... _______________ 19) Magnet Array Overhang ......... _______________ (Array Top to End of Ramp) 20) If a Linked Report, Ramp # .... _______________ 21) Best Lift Achieved ............ _______________ (Exit-entry hieght) 22) Best Dropaway Achieved ........ _______________ (How far ball must go down to drop) 23) Best Rollaway PE Energy ....... _______________ (21-22) 24) Level Rollaway Achieved ....... _______________ 25) Higher Rollaway Achieved ...... _______________ 26) How much higher ............... _______________ 27) Rollaround Achieved ........... _______________ 28) Best Circuits Achieved ........ _______________ 29) Best Time Achieved ............ _______________ 30) Date (dd/mm/yy) ............... _______________ 31) Your Name ..................... _______________ (Optional) 32) Comments : Once I get a few in, I will start to put the results up on my web site. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 19:06:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA29640; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 19:04:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 19:04:07 -0700 Message-ID: <33A49D57.1EC6 microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:26:39 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: RMOD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fqnkg2.0.tE7.My9fp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8308 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Steve Ekwall wrote: > > Paul, > I'm trying to send you my first '.attached-email'gif ever, if it comes > through, please let me know... I visited you home page (it's really NICE) > and saw your RMOD or Last Photo (this date). I'd tried a similar desk top > experiemt with small mags and n-gauge track... it really looked like it > wanted to go (see gif S/N)!! Your CORE *is* different in set up, I will > try that next.. should know by tomorrow or so. > These (smot's) are great.. I lucked out and got BIG roll-a-way first > thing!! > - lucky me :) ... I thought of 'Nautilas shell' shaped Amplifiers and Rail > Guns right of the bat!.. I'll repost this to freenrg-l if you like.. > stuck here with a 4086 win.BMP files converted by cshow.. so don't know if > it'll be viewable to you. [no browser/no disk space (sigh)] > ------------- > My most noted comment, besides you going (and ahead of me) in my thought > direction on RMOD is it 'appears Backwards' in almost every thing I try! > ---------------- > Greg mentioned that if it were going to be OU it would be 'inverted'. > fun stuff if you havn't built one yet. > > p.s. your Page LOOKS & Came across Great to mile-high Denver Colorado/usa > i need to update this !#%$ system... ahh $$.. :) > > se > ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ > -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 > ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 > ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX > > heck, i'll save band-width & just add freenrg-l now then I can see for > myself... I like your "pendleum armed - self staring idea".. 2nd to tinker > with (have you thought about a third arm (one always in the track?). > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > [Image] Hi Steve, No image at this end. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 20:11:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA13110; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 20:10:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 20:10:00 -0700 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 22:09:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706160309.WAA08541 dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> From: aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki ) Subject: Cold Fusion Technology Consultant: E. Mallove To: 76570.2270 compuserve.com Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"YvhF32.0.mC3.7wAfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8309 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: June 15, 1997 Well, at $2.50 per, I went to see the "Saint". Decided not to wait for the video rental. My wife came along, amazingly. She is more into some other themes but for Father's Day, she tagged along. She liked it. And I liked it. Went to the movie half apprehensive of how Hollywood was going to treat 'Cold Fusion'. Good work 'Gene! Too bad they didn't take you along to Russia where you could have nailed the Yusmar situation some more first hand. But then the Russian Mafia seems to be pretty tough. We need you for the long haul. ) The theatre was full it seems--- of Russians. It is located nearby where there is a growing population of Russian emigres. They chased out and cleaned up by the sheer force of presence and habits a local neighborhood park of straggling questionable homeless, beggars, and other indesirables. It's now Their Park. And Cyrillic signs on stores are everywhere. -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 20:40:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA22885; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 20:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 20:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A4B371.4E4A microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:00:57 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: newman-l emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Page swap Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tDBG53.0.Vb5.6IBfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8310 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Check out the latest batch of SMOT links on my web site. If yours is not there, let me know and I will update. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 15 23:36:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA15896; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 23:31:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 23:31:28 -0700 Message-ID: <33A4ED11.E6 earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 00:36:49 -0700 From: Rich Murray Reply-To: rmforall earthlink.net Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Toby , vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: your lab References: <1.5.4.32.19970615143225.00709834 rmi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"G-MRy2.0.Iu3._sDfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8311 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Toby, yes, I was delighted to get your summary of your fabulous lab, but lost tract of that post-- any way you could resend it to me?-- plus any new news. You may be able to earn needed income by charging other researchers reasonable amounts for making measurements. Try asking Scott Little. Might even put a classified ad in Infinite Energy? As One, Rich Murray From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 01:50:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA27675; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 01:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 01:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A4F226.7FAC microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:28:30 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Reporting via my Web Site Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xsYBn1.0.Fm6.doFfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8312 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, Thanks to Glen Sawyer (gsawyer dove.net.au) I how have a Java Based Report form on my Web Site. It is now even easier to report your SMOT results. DO IT NOW! Thanks Glen. The InterNet rules!!!!!!! Remember to post me your SMOT links so I can update my SMOT Site. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 04:31:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA07138; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 04:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 04:23:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Thermomagnetic-Thermoelectric & Magnetocaloric Effects. Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:21:57 +0000 Message-ID: <19970616112155.AAA12530 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"8n3Re3.0.Sl1.g8Ifp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8313 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick: Your exception to the use of the term magnetocaloric effect rather than thermomagnetic effect for a possible explanation of what is happening in the SMOT toy, prompted a search as to why the different usage. Thermomagnetic effects are defined as: "Electrical and Thermal Phenomena occurring when a conductor (or semiconductor)which is carrying a Thermal Current, ie., is in a thermal gradient, is placed in a magnetic field." If you read into this that the magnetic field is generated by an electrical current flow such as in the "Cold Fusion" cells and plug in the Seebeck, Peltier, Thomson, and Magnus, Effects (to name a few) one could make a pretty good argument that the "O-U" heat effects in the cells are just thermodynamic "HEAT PUMP" effects sucking heat out of the experimental apparatus with the help of the power supply. "It's not Chemical heat, therefore it must be Nuclear" . Is it just a little Thermodynamic "Glitch"? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 06:16:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA23398; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 06:14:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 06:14:44 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 05:13:20 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Thermomagnetism Resent-Message-ID: <"0zUzU3.0.Rj5.3nJfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8314 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 4:17 AM 6/15/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote: [snip] > >>From the literature and off the top of the head: 1, the PMs can put more >magnetism-force into a cold ball(less thermal disarray?)than a warmer one. >2, increased magnetization warms the ball as it goes through the array >gaining momentum. 3, the exiting ball is warmer and thus feels a lessor >"recall" >attraction, thus an unsymetrical situation. 4, the ball goes around the loop >cooling and losing magnetism through convection and possibly EM agitation, >thus making a cycle. Meanwhile the PMs recover the energy-heat given to the >ball, from the surrounding air. > >The Carnot "heat engine" cycle efficiency here is working at a delta T of >less than 1 deg K, so (Th - Tc)/Th or say (300 - 299.5)/300 = 0.5/300 or about >0.166 percent thermal efficiency. Not enough to consider for a 747 power-plant >but, great for a SMOT! :-) > >Regards, Frederick If this were true and the primary source of energy for the SMOT, etc., then the most effective design should involve using a ferromagnetic disk or ring for an armature. Half of the ring, the heating and magnetizing half, should be in an as strong as possible a magnetic field created by permanent magnets. The other half would then provide only cooling and demagnetization of the ring. It might include magnetic fields in various directions to create an oscillating effect to maximize demagnetization. This motor would not spontaneously start, but would keep going once it was started by turning the disk half a revolution. If the disk moved between a hot and cold compartment, then thermocouples at the boundary between the two compartments could could then also be used to extract energy from the 0.5 C heat difference? Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 06:32:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA25520; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 06:31:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 06:31:15 -0700 From: "John Steck" Message-Id: <9706160824.ZM2032 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 08:24:24 -0500 In-Reply-To: Jerry "Re: Retro TOMI" (Jun 14, 3:53pm) References: <19970614093235.AAA2169 LOCALNAME> <33A320A0.596B keelynet.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Retro TOMI Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"M-8nO2.0.gE6.Y0Kfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8315 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Jun 14, 3:53pm, Jerry wrote: > A shame there are so many who still refuse to build one, rather wanting > ever more details, nitpicking the posts or commenting on why it won't or > can't work.....that seems to be about 70% to 90% of the mail I see, so it > is quickly deleted. Glad I'm not the only one thinking that. Get your fingers dirty or shut up already. -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 06:55:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA20262; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 06:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 06:44:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Thermomagnetism Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:42:54 +0000 Message-ID: <19970616134253.AAA9419 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"_YJig.0.Ry4.qCKfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8316 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:13 PM 6/16/97 +0000, Horace Heffner wrote: >At 4:17 AM 6/15/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote: >[snip] >> >>>From the literature and off the top of the head: 1, the PMs can put more >>magnetism-force into a cold ball(less thermal disarray?)than a warmer one. >>2, increased magnetization warms the ball as it goes through the array >>gaining momentum. 3, the exiting ball is warmer and thus feels a lessor >>"recall" >>attraction, thus an unsymetrical situation. 4, the ball goes around the loop >>cooling and losing magnetism through convection and possibly EM agitation, >>thus making a cycle. Meanwhile the PMs recover the energy-heat given to the >>ball, from the surrounding air. >> >>The Carnot "heat engine" cycle efficiency here is working at a delta T of >>less than 1 deg K, so (Th - Tc)/Th or say (300 - 299.5)/300 = 0.5/300 or about >>0.166 percent thermal efficiency. Not enough to consider for a 747 power-plant >>but, great for a SMOT! :-) >> >>Regards, Frederick > > >If this were true and the primary source of energy for the SMOT, etc., then >the most effective design should involve using a ferromagnetic disk or ring >for an armature. Half of the ring, the heating and magnetizing half, >should be in an as strong as possible a magnetic field created by permanent >magnets. The other half would then provide only cooling and demagnetization >of the ring. It might include magnetic fields in various directions to >create an oscillating effect to maximize demagnetization. This motor would >not spontaneously start, but would keep going once it was started by >turning the disk half a revolution. If the disk moved between a hot and >cold compartment, then thermocouples at the boundary between the two >compartments could could then also be used to extract energy from the 0.5 C >heat difference? An iron-copper thermocouple with or without a hot and cold junction runs a galvanometer movement or a small electric motor very well with a small delta T. :-) Regards, Frederick > > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 07:51:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA28798; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 07:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 07:45:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Thermomagnetism Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:43:32 +0000 Message-ID: <19970616144330.AAA4401 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"uMxnc3.0.t17.v5Lfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8317 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:13 PM 6/16/97 +0000, Horace Heffner wrote: > >If this were true and the primary source of energy for the SMOT, etc., then >the most effective design should involve using a ferromagnetic disk or ring >for an armature. Half of the ring, the heating and magnetizing half, >should be in an as strong as possible a magnetic field created by permanent >magnets. The other half would then provide only cooling and demagnetization >of the ring. It might include magnetic fields in various directions to >create an oscillating effect to maximize demagnetization. This motor would >not spontaneously start, but would keep going once it was started by >turning the disk half a revolution. If the disk moved between a hot and >cold compartment, then thermocouples at the boundary between the two >compartments could could then also be used to extract energy from the 0.5 C >heat difference? It might work, Horace, if the portion that is supposed to dump the heat has time to do so. The temperature change (heat rise) in magnetizing with the strongest possible fields is only about 1 deg K, which is about 1.2 joules for cm^3 of iron when you figure 1.38E-23 joules/deg K. I guess you just don't do much energywise in aligning the spins of the iron (or other) atoms' electrons, but there is enough there to get the Magnetocaloric effects. In the 50's there was a "Heat Engine" proposed using an antiferromagnetic Iron-Rhodium alloy (See Hansen; Constitution of Binary Alloys)on the periphery of a disc that rotated between the poles of a magnet-magnets. In the antiferromagnetic devices as they are warmed the spins align and they switch into the ferromagnetic state and thus are attracted by a magnet. Cute effect. I had our metallurgist at Sandia Labs make up one from iron and rhodium powders and press-sintering. You could heat the thing and it would jump up to a magnet when warmed slightly. The intent was to use it as a thermostat-switch. Never could get it to work better that a bimetallic switch. :-) The low temperature DTA (Differential Thermal Analysis) thermocouple arrangements where a reference junction of a pair of thermocouples is held in a stable thermal mass, like a block of metal at room temperature, is compared to the temperature change of a sample, can readily detect a 1/2 degree temperature signal with a galvanometer. Regards, Frederick > > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 09:26:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA20290; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:13:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:13:03 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:12:36 -0700 From: Lynn Kurtz Subject: Re: Retro TOMI Sender: kurtz IMAP2.ASU.EDU To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Simeon for Win32 Version 4.0.9 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: NORMAL X-Authentication: none Resent-Message-ID: <"5mNMb2.0.hy4.DOMfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8318 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 16 Jun 1997 08:24:24 -0500 John Steck wrote: > On Jun 14, 3:53pm, Jerry wrote: > > > A shame there are so many who still refuse to build one, rather wanting > > ever more details, nitpicking the posts or commenting on why it won't or > > can't work.....that seems to be about 70% to 90% of the mail I see, so it > > is quickly deleted. > > Glad I'm not the only one thinking that. Get your fingers dirty or shut up > already. > > -- > John E. Steck What a ridiculous attitude! Did you guys build your own Patterson cells? Did you manufacture the magic beads? Are you DOING ALL THE EXPERIMENTS??? Not everyone comes to this newsgroup with the same knowledge, experience, or interests. But guess what -- some of them may know more about any given subject matter than you do and they have relevant and interesting comments to add to the discussion, whether or not they decide to build SMOTS. Speaking of which, although they sound like a dynamite toy, we are all still waiting for that first report of a closed loop SMOT system of any kind that is still running, running, running...... Looks like I better rush out and buy some magnets so I can build one since nobody else seems to be able to get it quite right..... -- Lynn From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 09:52:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA13657; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:45:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:45:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Retro TOMI Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:41:50 +0000 Message-ID: <19970616164148.AAA27335 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"8bWQs.0.JL3.qsMfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8319 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:12 PM 6/16/97 +0000, Lynn Kurtz wrote: > >On Mon, 16 Jun 1997 08:24:24 -0500 John Steck >wrote: > > >> On Jun 14, 3:53pm, Jerry wrote: >> >> > A shame there are so many who still refuse to build one, rather wanting >> > ever more details, nitpicking the posts or commenting on why it won't or >> > can't work.....that seems to be about 70% to 90% of the mail I see, so it >> > is quickly deleted. >> >> Glad I'm not the only one thinking that. Get your fingers dirty or shut up >> already. >> >> -- >> John E. Steck > >What a ridiculous attitude! Did you guys build your own Patterson cells? >Did you manufacture the magic beads? Are you DOING ALL THE EXPERIMENTS??? Is that Magic beads or beans, Lynn? Well, Fee, Fi, Fo, Fum, there is this cow in my pasture, up for barter. :-) >Not everyone comes to this newsgroup with the same knowledge, experience, >or interests. But guess what -- some of them may know more about any given >subject matter than you do and they have relevant and interesting comments >to add to the discussion, whether or not they decide to build SMOTS. > >Speaking of which, although they sound like a dynamite toy, we are all >still waiting for that first report of a closed loop SMOT system of any >kind that is still running, running, running...... > >Looks like I better rush out and buy some magnets so I can build one since >nobody else seems to be able to get it quite right..... Temper, Temper. But, IF YOU BUILD IT, THEY WILL COME, and GET YOU! :-) Regards, Frederick > >-- Lynn > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 11:00:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA03429; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:41:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:41:16 -0700 From: "John Steck" Message-Id: <9706161231.ZM3060 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:31:16 -0500 In-Reply-To: Lynn Kurtz "Re: Retro TOMI" (Jun 16, 11:07am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Retro TOMI Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"XnGSQ1.0.Vr.xgNfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8320 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Jun 16, 11:07am, Lynn Kurtz wrote: > What a ridiculous attitude! Did you guys build your own Patterson cells? > Did you manufacture the magic beads? Are you DOING ALL THE EXPERIMENTS??? Nice knee jerk reaction. Try re-reading the original post. Doing all the experiments isn't the point. Having a clue about what the heck you are criticizing or picking apart is. For example, your response. To postulate or argue points on something you haven't even the courtesey to try your own is pretty arrogant in my book and an insult to the people actually doing the work. I see only two positions here, lurk quitely or get actively involved. Anything else generates useless commentary and wastes a lot of everyone's time on this list. I am sorry you feel that viewpoint ridiculous. -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 13:23:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA12396; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:02:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970616112155.AAA12530 LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:45:45 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Thermomagnetic-Thermoelectric & Magnetocaloric Effects. Resent-Message-ID: <"SkIoe2.0.b13.BlPfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8321 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick - > > Thermomagnetic effects are defined as: "Electrical > and Thermal Phenomena occurring when a > conductor (or semiconductor)which is carrying a > Thermal Current, ie., is in a thermal gradient, is > placed in a magnetic field." Then just what is that effect called, where magnetization or demagnetization causes a change in temperature? And didn't someone make a new design of a quiet refrigerator based on this recently? I remember some science news blurbs about it a couple of years ago, but I can't remember if it used this principle. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 13:55:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA02274; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:34:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:34:14 -0700 Message-ID: <33A5B28C.4096 earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:39:24 -0700 From: Rich Murray Reply-To: rmforall earthlink.net Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: View of Dick Blue Content-Type: message/news Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"-IlKL3.0.OZ.5DQfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8322 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion Path: nntp.earthlink.net!mr.net!europa.clark.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.5.5.178!zorch!fusion From: blue pilot.msu.edu (Richard A Blue) Subject: Re: It's not sheer incompetence Reply-To: blue pilot.msu.edu (Richard A Blue) Sender: scott zorch.sf-bay.org Organization: Sci.physics.fusion/Mail Gateway Message-ID: <199706161444.KAA81081 pilot14.cl.msu.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:48:16 GMT I agree totally! Claimed Cold Fusion successess are not entirely the result of shear incompetence. It takes some determined effort to keep this screw-ball stuff alive! The scary thing is that many of the people involved in cold fusion research are quite competent. They may even have the support of excellent facilities and staff. However, if they are determined to do so, they can still make mistakes; and, because they "like" the results of those mistakes, they can replicate them endlessly. However, it is still possible to spot signs that all is not well with these "pseudoscientific" enterprises. Take, for example, the recently reported CETI water heater. We are unlikely to ever learn anything very concrete about this over-unity device, but it is worth taking note of the one bit of information that slipped out. So, as we learn from ABC-TV's excellent coverage, the water heater DOES NOT use the vaunted Patterson beads. Does this, perhaps, tell us that development of the bead technology has stalled? If that is the case could it possibly be because the "excess heat" that CETI had claimed never was real? Meanwhile the beads are now being sold as the ultimate weapon against the evils of radioactivity. I certainly hope that everyone recognizes that one can be highly "competent" at turning on a Geiger counter and still not get a proper assay of the activity of a uranium sample. I suspect that the CETI success requires a determined effort to select the wrong instrumentation. Dick Blue From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 14:54:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA28616; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:34:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:34:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:30:06 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Barker ... Radioactivity In-Reply-To: <33A5A5A1.15D math.ucla.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"lVjv-2.0.2_6.J5Rfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8325 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Vo., In the Barker work the counts start at some level. Then we exposed the sample to his fields' set up, with minor modification .... out sample was closer to the edge of the sphere than would be indicated if you scaled the patent drawing. The other modification was we used an external supply, a rack mount Glassman precision supply capable of independent regulated current and voltage. After exposure, from Barker, the counts tend to get higher and then lower and the graph looks like a partiall damped semi-sine wave .... but the peaks keep getting lower and lower .... until the oscillation is prettry well finished .... and the count is very low. Several months were required for this to happen. In our replication we took data when we could. If the student was not in class, or I did if not at the AFB. The overall count level went down, after nearly a year the count was close to background. NOW: I would like to turn this sample over to someone who would do a really good analysis and not lose it. It would be very interesting to see the isotope ratio. The real kind of sneaky way to insert this, in my opinion, would be to get a nice mild speciman, have it radio dated by isotope ratios ... But do this AFTER it had been sawn in half, well marked and documented and so forth .... and have the radio dating facility be pretty sure it was a good control-test set. Process the test sample, leave the control at the lab .... and see if the radio dated age had changed after treatment. This could be done with everyone's cooperation, or as a 'blind test' ... which might cause the radio dating lab to be concerned or upset .... Any ideas on the who for a lab? JHS From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 15:18:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA03451; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A5B814.990 ro.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:03:01 -0500 From: "Patrick V. Reavis" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: View of Dick Blue References: <970616212355_72240.1256_EHB87-3 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hmbWh2.0.pr.kSRfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8326 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > > To: Vortex; >INTERNET:rmforall earthlink.net > > Rich Murray has been posting messages from other people here in Vortex lately, > especially from the rabid opposition. ... I do not think that > cross-posting these contentious messages here improves the quality of this > discussion group. > > - Jed Ditto. Patrick V. Reavis From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 16:02:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA12970; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:53:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:53:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33A55364.DCC450BD verisoft.com.tr> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:53:24 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex , Jerry Subject: Re: Retro TOMI X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------D399B90C8A99ED0A5C29B690" Resent-Message-ID: <"NuFHu3.0.c73.BDSfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8328 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D399B90C8A99ED0A5C29B690 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------D399B90C8A99ED0A5C29B690 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="nsmailCS.TMP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="nsmailCS.TMP" Received: from [192.48.96.7] by rainbow.verisoft.com.tr (AIX 4.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA16380; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 19:16:24 +0400 Received: from mx2.eskimo.com by relay2.UU.NET with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) id QQctxp18187; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA05468; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:10:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:10:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33A26B46.498D2654 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:58:30 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Retro TOMI X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <19970614093235.AAA2169 LOCALNAME> <33A28C9C.47A9@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-Id: <"cZxKw2.0.IL1.2Aiep" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8269 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Jerry wrote: > > Gnorts Vorts! > > Thought with all the flutter about Greg Watsons SMOT, it might be > interesting to compare to the TOMI. I built it and it worked, the > principles are very similar. Chuck Hendersons daughter built one > and entered it in the Science Fair, winning first prize.....check out; > Hi Jerry, Could you give more construction details and self powering criteria (e.g. starting and ending levels and the roll away conditions) on the device that you build. Regards, Hamdi Ucar --------------D399B90C8A99ED0A5C29B690-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 16:04:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA12576; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:48:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970616144330.AAA4401 LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:44:21 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Thermomagnetism Resent-Message-ID: <"zNDZf1.0.G23.C9Sfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8327 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick wrote: > It might work, Horace, if the portion that is > supposed to dump the heat has time to do so. > > The temperature change (heat rise) in magnetizing > with the strongest possible fields is only about 1 > deg K, which is about 1.2 joules for cm^3 of iron > when you figure 1.38E-23 joules/deg K. I don't know how fact-based the following is because I hardly know anything about how this stuff works. But if this mechanism operates in the SMOTs (or wherever) and it's reversible, then it is the reverse - the absorbtion of heat corresponding to lost magnetism, that's really interesting. How fast could this cycle be repeated? How many joules per second per cm^3 of mass could be extracted by rapid cycling? Perhaps lots? It still sounds like heat is going the 'wrong way' here - getting absorbed and turned into magnetic potential. And, it doesn't seem to add up - it looks to me like we are pumping the 'same' heat back and forth to and from the ferrous ball as it's magnetized and demagnetized, and yet we are extracting mechanical work with each cycle. If this is correct, then heat alone is not the full explanation of where the energy comes from, or the full cycle cannot be strictly adiabatic. But even if it isn't, what would prevent rapid cycling provided that the mag/demag cycle was either spontaneous or driven by something other than heat? The viewpoint I'm looking at this from is that the mag/demag cycle 'happens', and the heat changes are a result - not a driving or limiting (within a certain range of course) factor. Does this make any sense, or should I just shut up now and go get my hands dirty? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 16:05:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA14087; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:57:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:57:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A5C3D0.301F microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:23:04 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Reports ............. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"x6ZoK.0.-R3.UJSfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8329 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Come on GUYS, do some reporting. Its SIMPLE. Achieve something for ALL the effort you have put into the SMOTS. When I get 10 reports up, I will release the SMOT Mark II plans. The reports ARE IMPORTANT if these tests are to be taken seriously. The first report is up. Have a look and REPORT. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 16:22:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA05299 for billb@eskimo.com; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:22:21 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:22:21 -0700 X-Envelope-From: jlogajan skypoint.com Mon Jun 16 16:22:19 1997 Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA05252 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:22:19 -0700 Received: from mirage.skypoint.com (mirage.skypoint.com [199.86.32.7]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA18987 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:51:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mirage.skypoint.com via sendmail with stdio id for vortex-l eskimo.com; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:51:54 -0500 (CDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #4 built 1997-Feb-13) Message-Id: From: jlogajan skypoint.com (John Logajan) Subject: Hiatus To: vortex-l eskimo.com (vortex-l) Old-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:51:54 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: vortex-l Status: RO X-Status: Well, I suppose I shouldn't clog this list with my personal business, but I have to go on honeymoon for two weeks. So I hope all the SMOT stuff gets straightend out by the time I get back. See ya on the other side. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 16:23:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA06153 for billb@eskimo.com; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:23:22 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:23:22 -0700 X-Envelope-From: jlogajan skypoint.com Mon Jun 16 16:22:59 1997 Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA05884 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:22:57 -0700 Received: from mirage.skypoint.com (mirage.skypoint.com [199.86.32.7]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA16473 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mirage.skypoint.com via sendmail with stdio id for vortex-l eskimo.com; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:30:05 -0500 (CDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #4 built 1997-Feb-13) Message-Id: From: jlogajan skypoint.com (John Logajan) Subject: Re: CETI Radioactivity To: vortex-l eskimo.com Old-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:30:05 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <33A5A5A1.15D math.ucla.edu> from "Barry Merriman" at Jun 16, 97 01:44:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: vortex-l Status: RO X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: > Another point to ponder: some have speculated that this might > be some magical form of accelerated decay to stable products. > However, in the time lapse the count drops from 300 cpm to > 150 cpm in a fairly time linear fashion, unlike decay/reaction > processes which typically obey exponential rates. Not > a definitive point, but something to bear in mind. Actually, they compiled frames from 15 minute intervals and the counts dropped from 300 to 150 in roughly equal steps until the last one or two segments when the counts didn't seem to change much at all. One wonders at the significance of this plateau. Though it may be a mistake to assume the power was on for the last 15-30 minutes. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 16:24:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA16384; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:08:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:08:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Barker ... Radioactivity Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:46:19 +0000 Message-ID: <19970616224617.AAA11232 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"501Qs.0.r_3.NTSfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8330 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:30 PM 6/16/97 +0000, John Schnurer wrote: > > > Dear Vo., > > In the Barker work the counts start at some level. Then we >exposed the sample to his fields' set up, with minor modification .... >out sample was closer to the edge of the sphere than would be indicated >if you scaled the patent drawing. The other modification was we used an >external supply, a rack mount Glassman precision supply capable of >independent regulated current and voltage. > > After exposure, from Barker, the counts tend to get higher and >then lower and the graph looks like a partiall damped semi-sine wave .... >but the peaks keep getting lower and lower .... until the oscillation is >prettry well finished .... and the count is very low. Several months >were required for this to happen. > > In our replication we took data when we could. If the student >was not in class, or I did if not at the AFB. The overall count level >went down, after nearly a year the count was close to background. > > NOW: I would like to turn this sample over to someone who would >do a really good analysis and not lose it. It would be very interesting >to see the isotope ratio. > > The real kind of sneaky way to insert this, in my opinion, would >be to get a nice mild speciman, have it radio dated by isotope ratios ... >But do this AFTER it had been sawn in half, well marked and documented >and so forth .... and have the radio dating facility be pretty sure it >was a good control-test set. Process the test sample, leave the >control at the lab .... and see if the radio dated age had changed after >treatment. > > This could be done with everyone's cooperation, or as a 'blind >test' ... which might cause the radio dating lab to be concerned or upset >.... > > Any ideas on the who for a lab? > > JHS Yes, John. You might try Dr. Ron L. Brodzinski at Battelle's, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory. (rl_brodzinski pnl.gov) Of course I'm sure he has been informed of the goings on by Norm Olson who works for Battelle at Hanford and was in on the ABC segment. I don't know if Ron got around to running the "Self Remediation" experiment on Cesium 137 (with Potassium) salts in water yet. Regards. Frederick > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 16:30:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA03278; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:10:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:10:52 -0700 Message-ID: <33A5C910.11AA ro.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:15:28 -0500 From: "Patrick V. Reavis" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetocaloric Effects-Experiments References: <19970614161056.AAA3310 LOCALNAME> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ruBJ-3.0.8p.wVSfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8331 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick J. Sparber wrote: > > To Vortex: > > A magnetocaloric experiment. > > Stuff needed: 1, Two 25 mm dia. steel balls. > > 2, A 3" x 1/2" "Cow Magnet" hemispherical ends (very strong)* > Magnets Local Feed Stores Cow magnets are strong, cylindrical magnets with rounded ends. These magnets are fed to cows so that any iron material eaten by the cow (nails, bits of wire, and so on) will remain in the stomach and not pass through the digestive tract. These are excellent magnets for many science activities; you can probably find them at a local animal feed store. Dowling Miner Magnetics Corp. P.O. Box 1829 Sonoma, CA 95476 707-935-0352, or 1-800-MAGNET 1 Source of small (0.5" diameter x 0.25" thick) extremely strong neodymium magnets at reasonable cost ($3.00 at time of writing). Cow magnets available for $6.95. For your "Cow Magnet Needs" Patrick V. Reavis From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 17:10:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA13717; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:02:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:02:41 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970616200129.006e6c68 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (32) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:01:35 +0000 To: rmforall earthlink.net From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: View of Dick Blue Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5zAgz3.0.AM3.WGTfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8332 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 02:39 PM 6/16/97 -0700, Rich Murray wrote: >Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion >Path: nntp.earthlink.net!mr.net!europa.clark.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.n et!192.5.5.178!zorch!fusion >From: blue pilot.msu.edu (Richard A Blue) >Subject: Re: It's not sheer incompetence >Reply-To: blue pilot.msu.edu (Richard A Blue) >Sender: scott zorch.sf-bay.org >Organization: Sci.physics.fusion/Mail Gateway >Message-ID: <199706161444.KAA81081 pilot14.cl.msu.edu> >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:48:16 GMT > >I agree totally! Claimed Cold Fusion successess are not entirely >the result of shear incompetence. Up to here, Dick Blue is correct. They are the result of determined examination of meticulously loaded Group VIII metals. Cold fusion occurs reproducibly when the correct conditions are attained, in an active sample. Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 17:16:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA15753; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:12:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:12:52 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970616201122.00713a24 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (32) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:11:42 +0000 To: rmforall earthlink.net From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: View of Dick Blue Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"B6Fz-.0.3s3.3QTfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8333 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 02:39 PM 6/16/97 -0700, Rich Murray wrote: >Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion >Path: nntp.earthlink.net!mr.net!europa.clark.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.n et!192.5.5.178!zorch!fusion >From: blue pilot.msu.edu (Richard A Blue) >Subject: Re: It's not sheer incompetence >Reply-To: blue pilot.msu.edu (Richard A Blue) >Sender: scott zorch.sf-bay.org >Organization: Sci.physics.fusion/Mail Gateway >Message-ID: <199706161444.KAA81081 pilot14.cl.msu.edu> >Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:48:16 GMT > > > "The scary thing is that many of the people involved in cold fusion >research are quite competent. They may even have the support of >excellent facilities and staff." Here, Dick Blue is also correct. The US Navy, NASA, JET Energy Technology, CEREM, all run or have run systems confirming cold fusion. What is scary is the TIME LAG between the confirmation of Drs. Fleischmann and Pons and the elimination of stupid comments from those who fail to be diligent with respect to the literature or their own substantial research. Cold fusion occurs reproducibly when the correct conditions are attained, in an active sample. Yet instead of pursuing the nuclear physics and solid state physics and electrical engineering and chemistry, there remain a few vocal TB-skeptics who try to "teach" others to not seek the truth about this subject. But the facts stand. The excess heats exist. More information is available at http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html BTW IMHO Dick Blue is one of the better critics of the field, although it would be nice if he were more responsive to serious scientific analysis critical of his own putative negative comments against cold fusion. He might then evolve faster and admit that there are anomalous reactions in these fully loaded materials. Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 17:39:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA29859; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:26:43 -0700 (PDT) From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970616202247_-2030492989 emout06.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: off topic Resent-Message-ID: <"_XiQy3.0.KI7.vcTfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8334 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I sold calls on my technology stocks today. I don't think the market can go much higher and I am taking profits while I can. Frank Znidarsic From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 14:54:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA27474; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: 16 Jun 97 17:23:55 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: BlindCopyReceiver:; Subject: View of Dick Blue Message-ID: <970616212355_72240.1256_EHB87-3 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"v995F.0.8j6.G-Qfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8324 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex; >INTERNET:rmforall earthlink.net Rich Murray has been posting messages from other people here in Vortex lately, especially from the rabid opposition. This is helpful some cases. I believe he posted remarks from the APS -- or he e-mailed them directly to me (I can't tell). That's fine, Rich, and I thank you. But I ask that you spare us run-of-the-mill stuff from people like Dick Blue and Tony Rusi. We all know what they think. They have devoted the Internet sci.physics.fusion newsgroup to their point of view. Blue or Rusi can post messages here if they want to. They can find us easily via my home page or Bill Beaty's. I do not think that cross-posting these contentious messages here improves the quality of this discussion group. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 18:44:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA04259; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:37:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:37:52 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:37:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199706170137.SAA18545 Au.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: tessien oro.net (Ross Tessien) Subject: Re; Recent Conference Resent-Message-ID: <"pWVEi2.0.Q21.lfUfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8335 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Ross- How did the conference go? Any new insights to share with the group? -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. Greetings John and Vor; I don't know if you saw my earlier post to the group about how the conference went, if not let me know and I could see if I still have it and post it again. In any case, the conference went very well. We had about 20 people, most of whom gave presentations and a couple just listened in. Robert Stirniman came up from Las Vegas, Dale Pond with his device, and a number of others. If you read the new.theories group, you will be familiar with Paul Stowe and perhaps Barry Mingst who gave some good presentations as did several other speakers. For myself, I can say that I came away with two distinct observations of import. First, I identified for the first time how the precession in location of aether wave convergence moves around in a manner that matches the vortices that Paul and Barry work with. There are two distinct structures for these torroids which are a bit like a donut. The way Paul and Barry think of them is with fluid flow in a super fluid. I think in terms of the convergence of wave pressure energy. So they have fluid moving around a torroid, while I just have pressure distortions that move around like their flow. The difference is like going to the ocean and watching a wave "flow" toward shore and thinking that the water is actually flowing toward shore, which it is not. You have a pressure front that is precessing toward shore. Likewise, for my structures of proton and neutron, I get the pressure convergence location to precess around the torroid, but there need not be any macroscopic flow of fluid. Though the aether must slosh about in a manner not unlike how water waves slosh, and as is observed when you go underwater and watch the kelp sway back and forth as the waves pass. To describe the torroids, begin with the shape of a normal donut with a hole in the middle. Next, look down on the donut so that you see a circular shape in plan view. Now, draw and arrow on the donut in either the ccw or cw direction. That is the first orientation of precession of the energy. Now, imagine that the entire donut is like a barber pole bent into the circle. So you have a spiral running around the donut and joining back into itself again. That is the second direction of precession. You have both of those directions to define the vortex motion. If you play with that geometry, and you rotate it this way and that, you will find that there are exactly two distinct combinations of the precession geometry (or flow geometry for Pauls vortices). These may correspond to spin up and spin down. Note that the important thing here is that we are both attempting to give a precise geometry for the structure of the proton and the neutron. Further, the donut shape is not some hard surface, it is simply a visual tool to attempt to describe the 4D field of energy migration. 3D gives you the spatial structure, and then when you put the thing into motion, you get time and thus the structure is dynamic, and ergo, 4D. Now the major difference between my geometry and theirs is that I work with acoustic convergences, or, standing waves ala sonoluminescent geometry. I think that the nucleons are made up of 9 muon standing waves positioned in such a way as to give rise to that sort of vortical precession of the pressure nodes internally. And the centers of convergence of the muons are way down at the Planck scale at E-35 meters. So when I say "donut" I am using the term equally as loosely as I would need to if I were to call a tornado a "conical vortex". It isn't a cone at all, and is some very complicated fluid dynamic geometry. And, there is no boundary to the cone, and neither is there any boundary to the vortices described above. They are just a local region of the aether that is highly agitated in a very precise manner. And, they are stable because they are being driven by oscillations of spacetime itself, another fluid mechanical structure of standing waves. For the tornado, it is the air around it that is driving the vorticity, but if you think about it, none of the particles are really following the curved paths. They are all bashing about from here to there in ballistic trajectories of average length, the mean free path. So the tornados seemingly circular motion is really made up of a whole bunch of zig zag exchanges of momentum. This is a very crude analogy of the geometry I work with for spacetimes nodal structure. But the point is good, in that you can indeed induce a convergence of wave energy into a region of the aether, and that convergence, if coherently timed, can drive a vortex indefinitely. So, I think that protons and all matter, are driven resonances in and of aether. Most people worked with one form of aether or another, either explicitely or tacitly. Two people worked on an interesting idea for spacetime, and this is the second thing that I took away from the conference as pertained to an area of my model that needs further examination. Their idea was that aether was flowing into all bodies, and that the flow velocity was the escape velocity at that radius. Now this notion explicitly violates my first tenet of conservation of aether in all interactions. However, there is a way for my spacetime to accomplish this effect, and so I have been contemplating whether or not I should consider incorporating this notion, or whether or not it is even important. The reason I say this is because for my model, "spacetime" is the power weighted sum of all incident wave energy arriving from all other standing wave (particle) resonances across the rest of the universe. Now this would seem to be a simple thing to state, and yet few people manage to grasp what I mean or the implications of the statement. If you have an un-damped SHO, then it will amplify its resonance in cadence with the wave energy present. It will phase and frequency lock to that energy. But, what if you have more than one frequency present? Well, then it will lock to the component of the continuum which has the dominant power amplitude. I explained how Josephesons Junctions do this, and to describe the way they lock together when you make a precesion frequency reference, what you must do is to give equal weight to all of the components in the parallel circuit. Normally, we think that the oscillator here is going to be coupled more strongly to the oscillator directly adjacent to it. But this will not give you the right results on locking behaviors. You must treat a distant oscillator as though it is of equal importance with the nearby oscillators when working with a series of coupled oscilators. Sci Am and others had an article on this last year I think. So what you say? Well, if you consider the amount of particle standing wave energy at a redshift factor A, B, C, where these are at 1, 2, 3 times the distance of A, we normally think that the power arriving from B and C will be 1/4 and 1/9 that of the power from A. But, if you work with a spherical shell of the cosmos t thick, and you think about it, the power from each spherical shell is identical on cosmological scales. This is because not only is the intensity of the wave energy from each distance dropping by a factor of 1/R^2, but in addition, the area of the differentially thick spherical shell is growing by a factor of R^2. So, R^2/R^2 is equal to 1. And no matter what distance you head out to the power from that region of the universe is the same as the power from other regions further or closer. Now this fails when we get really close to bodies and the distribution is no longer uniform on a cosmological scale. When this happens, you wind up with the power arriving from wave energy emitted from matter in the earth, the sun, and the Milky Way are all skewed and more powerful than is wave energy arriving from any other more distant cosmological scale. This means that the particles in my body will necessarily phase and frequency lock to locally emitted wave energy preferentially over more distant wave energy. As QVF from distant galaxies is red shifted (assuming that QVF and light are all the same phenomena and nothing but wave energies of different wavelengths in the aether ocean we call a universe), it is out of frequency match with local QVF oscillations of spacetime (again at the Planck scale with f~ E45 Hz). But now you can notice something important. Local matter cannot frequency lock to energy arriving from deep space!!!!!!!!!!!!!! An SHO can only oscillate at one frequency, period. So you have local energy here on earth buzzing at frequency f_e, and you have a bunch of other frequencies arriving from the balance of the cosmos. If you have **phase** angle shifts but the same frequency, then you can induce attractions or repulsions of standing waves in the medium as proved by Kelvin and Bjerknes in about 1870. But, if you have a frequency mismatch, you get beating. And so the standing waves will be thrust one way for a while, then the other way for a while as their phase angles rotate relative to one another. But, if you have any attenuation of that incident wave energy, then you can get just one, and only one result; A thrust away from the incident wave energy. Thus, we are thrust away from wave energy arriving from deep space and this has always been my contention about the source of gravitational thrust. But there is an interesting thing that results in the model I work with. As the aether gets more dense in a region (due to wave energy convergence), the sound speed slows down if the rigidity remains the same. So as you head into a body, the spacetime oscillations get sluggish, ie red shift. Time (a measure of the pulsing of the spacetime wave energy period), slows down. But this means that spacetime itself is being subjected to wave energy of multiple frequencies, and it too must therefore be beating. So, if the spacetime nodes are precessing inward toward earth at the escape velocity of a body, then that might fit the other guys models, despite still maintaing a consistency with the notion of aether conservation. So in this approach, the spacetime nodes are not only curved into a spherically distorted geometry, but they are as well flowing into the bodies just as are waves flowing into shore. No net flow of the fluid, but you do get a flow of the acoustic nodes! IMO, the ramifications of this are that what we today call anti gravity will in the near future be considered as naive as thinking that heavier than air flight would be impossible. We will build spacecraft that will lift off like a helicopter, and the Tampere experiment may be one of the first modern approaches to the technique we will soon learn about. The trick is to understand that the universe is an ocean of aether, and that the stuff we think of as particles and matter, is nothing but regions of that aether buzzing in certain uniform ways. When we learn this, we will be able to apply that knowledge to the construction of a device that shears the aether using those vortices such that you get a net flow of aether in one end and out the other like in a jet turbine. That will be the rocket motors of the future, IMO. A Russian scientist, Natalia, attended the conference and had with her a report that she had authored in Russia a few years ago. She did not present a paper, but I spoke with her a little about it. They had carefully monitored the reaction rate for a simple chemical reaction over a period of several years. The test cycled I think it was about every 30 or 60 seconds. It consisted of mixing known reagents to induce a specific reaction, timing the reaction rate, then discarding the fluids and beginning again. Fully automated. I think she said they had about 6 labs across Russia doing the identical experiment. They had the great fortune to have a total lunar eclipse pass over about 4 of the labs across the country. During this event, there was a very marked change in reactivity timings at all of the labs. They also measured coherent changes to the reactivity with a lot of different periodicities such as 24 hours, lunar periods and harmonics etc. The point being that apparently there is some quality of spacetime that is being altered on those time scales. When you look, you find the periods fitting up with the earths rotation, lunar rotations, and other cycles. Not all of them were identified and several are stronger than others. But the report and the data are strong and I believe that they did an excellent job. They were just reporting what they observed in a careful experiment, though the chemical, or EM forces should not be altered appreciably by the gravitational effects. So, what is happening then? Well, these fit in with the notion that spacetime is a fluid mechanical turbulent structure and that matter is really a bunch of vortices in that medium. Such an approach replaces the notion of QM uncertainty with an identifiable Brownian like turbulence. This does not mean you will use any new technique for predicting behavior, but, you will come to think of the universe and matter in new terms. For those of you in the vortex l, I think that this is the most important thing to take to heart. You see, if you think of matter as being particles, then you do not expect turbulence of spacetime itself. Instead you must suppose that the particles have a mind of their own. However, if you do consider that spacetime is the sum of incident wave energy arriving from all directions, then you will come to realize that spacetime in matter is highly distorted. When you see this, then you will begin to consider throwing the notion of fields out the window, and begin to try to understand spacetime distortions on the QVF scale in and around matter. These distortions are then what we call "fields". Working with waves is more complicated than is working with particles, and so I don't expect what I have said to greatly assist many, or even any, of you in considering real experiments via this new notion. But if you want to try, then the first thing to attempt is to come up with a black and white checkerboard like topology for 4 space where white and black oscillate alternately in pressure. Try to visualize that motion. When you can get that, then consider that you have a bunch of oscillators arranged into a sphere which are all emitting wave energy out into the surroundings (ie around the earth). Try to see how the topology will be "curved", by the emissions. This is sort of like trying to visualize a phased array radar beam if you had a spherical distribution of emitters, each at the nodes of a rectilinear coordinate system. You should see the positions of the nodes become slightly distorted by the emissions of the body as they combine with the rectilinear grid of arriving wave energy that is, spacetime. Well, enough rambling. To conclude, the conference went very well. My only hope for future conferences is to increase the level of technical expertise in the overall group. But for a first year conference I think everything was about as good as one could hope for. It met my expectations, and those of most others I think. Thanks for asking. Ross Tessien From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 19:11:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA03856; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:44:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:44:35 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33A5A5A1.15D math.ucla.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:44:17 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: CETI Radioactivity References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"D-LtY.0.Ay.nMQfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8323 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Martin Sevior wrote: > > Say Patterson put 1 gram of Uranium into > the system .... > Patterson's experiment ran for 1.5 hours and say 0.5 of the > Uranium was remediated that gives a power release of 12 Megawatts. > Even if Patterson only put in 1 milligram of Uranium the system would > still generate 12 kilowatts of power. > No need to speculate---we can estimate. Originally, the meter was reading 300 cpm, or 5 counts per second. Ur decay is alpha and gamma, and the alpha's don't escape the system, so lets figure the geiger is counting gammas. I've been told by our rad people here that geigers have a pretty low efficiency for gamma, on the order of 1 in 10,000 is detected for a sample put right by its window. So, this means on the order of 50,000 gammas per sec are really bing emitted, or 50,000 decays per second. Natural Ur is composed of 99.2 % U238 => 1/2 life 10^16 sec 0.7 % U235 => 1/2 life 2x10^15 sec 0.005% U234 => 1/2 life 6x10^12 sec For a mol of material = 6x10^23 atoms, this leads to roughly the following number of decays per sec: 6x10^23*(1/2)*(0.99/10^16 + 0.007/2x10^15 + 0.00005/6x10^12) It is clear the dominant contribution actually comes from the U238, so we ignore the others, and 0.99 ~ 1, so decays/sec/mol ~ 3x10^7 Thus, 50,000 decays per sec measured implies 50,000/ 3x10^7 moles of Ur present, or approximately 0.001 moles. 1 mole of Ur weighs 240 gms, so we get about 0.24 grams of Ur. Thus, We conclude the was on the order of 1/4 gram of Ur in the solution near the meter initially. By Martin's estimation, this means that during the remediation process about 3 Megawatts of power was released and had to go somewhere on the nuclear level. Since the system would have melted if the released heat power exceeded ~300 watts, this means there was less than 1 part in 10,000 leakage of the nuclear energy that was being broken down and reformed in the system. (not to mention that there was no release of commensurate high energy particles either). All pretty hard to imagine. Another point to ponder: some have speculated that this might be some magical form of accelerated decay to stable products. However, in the time lapse the count drops from 300 cpm to 150 cpm in a fairly time linear fashion, unlike decay/reaction processes which typically obey exponential rates. Not a definitive point, but something to bear in mind. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 20:05:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA22805; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:52:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:52:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970617025046.00664ed8 sparc1> X-Sender: kennel sparc1 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:50:46 +0900 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Elliot Kennel Subject: Pd SIMS Resent-Message-ID: <"8bY1S3.0.Ea5.elVfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8336 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Copyrighted information. Please ask before reposting or quoting. Recently I posted some results of a study of a copper electrode (control) experiment which was trying to find out if there a SIMS artifact would appear which might explain the results of Mizuno, which showed a strong isotopic shift in copper and other elements. My experiment failed to yield any counter-argument to Mizuno's claim. I also checked out some of the stuff appearing on the cathode surface and concluded that it is run of the mill crud, mainly carbon, probably from outgassing hydrocarbons from the steel vacuum chamber. I believe that some crud will always be deposited on the cathode in a plasma system no matter how clean the vacuum chamber is (mine is in the low 10^-7 Torr range). Anyway, we finally got some results back from electrochemically loaded Pd. The results are not as quantitative as I would like as they are only displayed graphically in a log format. We've asked the lab which did the analysis to fix it up a little bit. Anyway, the upshot is that there are apparent small isotopic shifts in the Pd as well as impurity metals which go beyond random error, consistent with previous observations of Mizuno and possibly others. The measurements are in high-res mode, which is sufficient to eliminate spurrious results from metal hydride and deuteride molecules being mistaken for atoms. I don't necessarily agree with all of Mizuno's conclusions; rather I would say there are three possibilities which occur to us: a. There is a (non-random) systematic error introduced in SIMS measurements of electrolytically loaded Pd cathodes; b. There is an anomalous isotopic separation which occurs in electrolytically loaded Pd cathodes; c. There is some anomalous nuclear process whih occurs in electrolytically loaded Pd cathodes. Because the isotope shifts are small and occur only in the top one micron of the surface, it will be hard to see this using neutron activation. Nevertheless, that is one of the goals which both Mizuno and NHE Lab would like very much to achieve, as that would nail down the existence of a nuclear anomaly. Best regards, Elliot Kennel Sapporo Japan From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 20:47:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA31832; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:33:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:33:52 -0700 From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970616232859_845388945 emout15.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: MOT and Power Gen 95 Resent-Message-ID: <"xAURh3.0.Hn7.VMWfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8337 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For all of you who have bought MOT after the craze following Power Gen 95. I'd say its a good time to sell and lock in a nice profit. Today I sold calls at $65 for $8.25 each. Effectively I've sold my stock for $72. $72-$49/49 = a nice 47% profit If it goes up a little more so what we have made our money. Its a big company and cannot go to moon. Frank Znidarsic From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 20:49:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA01455; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:42:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:42:35 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Thermomagnetism Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:30:10 +0000 Message-ID: <19970617003008.AAA9565 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"Jyr8_1.0.MM.fUWfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8338 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:44 PM 6/16/97 +0000, Rick wrote: >Frederick wrote: > > > It might work, Horace, if the portion that is > > supposed to dump the heat has time to do so. > > > > The temperature change (heat rise) in magnetizing > > with the strongest possible fields is only about 1 > > deg K, which is about 1.2 joules for cm^3 of iron > > when you figure 1.38E-23 joules/deg K. > >I don't know how fact-based the following is because I hardly know anything >about how this stuff works. But if this mechanism operates in the SMOTs (or >wherever) and it's reversible, then it is the reverse - the absorbtion of >heat corresponding to lost magnetism, that's really interesting. Okay Rick. If you really want to be confused you came to the right place. Demagnetization: "a process for reducing a magnetized material to the neutral state". 1, Heat; you are rattling the atoms/electrons around and driving the thing toward the Curie temperature where it drops to the paramagnetic state. 2, Mechanical shock. 3, Applying a magnetizing force above a critical value for the material used, and reversing the H field in direction and reducing it. Then again; Adiabatic Demagnetization: "To magnetize a body,energy must be added that is proportional to the product of the field strength and the magnetization produced. If the body thus magnetized is thermally isolated, this addition of energy results in a rise in temperature. Conversely, demagnetization of the isolated body results in a lowering of temperature". Then again: Magnetocaloric Effect: "The reversible change of temperature accompanying the change of magnetization of a ferromagnetic or paramagnetic material. Thermodynamics theory shows that, for an adiabatic change of field delta H, the change of temperature delta T is given by; delta T/delta H = - (T/specific heat)* [D M/D T] specific heat is per unit volume and M is the magnetization. Since [D M/D T] is negative, an adiabatic decrease in H causes T to drop." IMO conversely, if the virtually unmagnetized colder ball is attracted by the PM it raises it's temperature in so doing. Then as the ball exits the PM it is attracted with less than the initial force. On the other hand H is dropping and thus T is dropping. :-) But in this case the ball has enough momentum (inertia) to escape the PM, cool down, and complete the cycle. Got any cool aid to go with a pint of "Everclear"? :-) > >It still sounds like heat is going the 'wrong way' here - getting absorbed >and turned into magnetic potential. And, it doesn't seem to add up - it >looks to me like we are pumping the 'same' heat back and forth to and from >the ferrous ball as it's magnetized and demagnetized, and yet we are >extracting mechanical work with each cycle. If this is correct, then heat >alone is not the full explanation of where the energy comes from, or the >full cycle cannot be strictly adiabatic. But even if it isn't, what would >prevent rapid cycling provided that the mag/demag cycle was either >spontaneous or driven by something other than heat? The viewpoint I'm >looking at this from is that the mag/demag cycle 'happens', and the heat >changes are a result - not a driving or limiting (within a certain range of >course) factor. Does this make any sense, or should I just shut up now and >go get my hands dirty? Kinda helps to have a game plan before you start cutting steel. That's how Greg got the ball rolling, so to speak. On the other hand if you knew how they made sausages you'd probably never touch the stuff. :-) Regards, Frederick > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 20:53:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA02894; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:49:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:49:04 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Thermomagnetic-Thermoelectric & Magnetocaloric Effects. Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:47:13 +0000 Message-ID: <19970617004711.AAA24871 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"NgmS81.0.8j.laWfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8339 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:45 PM 6/16/97 +0000, Rick wrote: >Frederick - > > > > > Thermomagnetic effects are defined as: "Electrical > > and Thermal Phenomena occurring when a > > conductor (or semiconductor)which is carrying a > > Thermal Current, ie., is in a thermal gradient, is > > placed in a magnetic field." > >Then just what is that effect called, where magnetization or >demagnetization causes a change in temperature? Magnetocaloric Effects. And it's not in Webster's Dictionary, but in the McGraw-Hill Dictionary of Scientific and Technical Terms. (just perusing it is an education in itself): "Magnetcaloric effect (thermodynamics) The reversible change of temperature accompanying the change of magnetization of a ferromagnetic material." >And didn't someone make a >new design of a quiet refrigerator based on this recently? I remember some >science news blurbs about it a couple of years ago, but I can't remember if >it used this principle. I wouldn't be surprised. Regards, Frederick > > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 20:53:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA02978; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:49:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:49:12 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Full Moon Near! Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 01:48:01 +0000 Message-ID: <19970617014758.AAA556 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"Cqjqd1.0.Jk.taWfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8340 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Attn. Richard W. Wall: We're four days out from the full moon "Light Pulse Peak". Have you seen any indication of this with the tone of the posts here, lately? Expect anything in that eight day span from third quarter to full moon. :-) Might be some good correlation in the archives? That pineal "vestige" and it's primitive infrared-sensor-hormone-control system still at work? Melatonin or what? Similar to fowl, when there is a Solar Eclipse they head for the roost. Seems that low light triggers the release of melatonin. They say that low light also causes depression in folks up around the Artic Circle, but can be corrected by the right frequency spectrum and intensity of "artificial" sunlight. How you doing this summer, Horace? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 22:31:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA11295; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:48:18 GMT From: "Peter Glueck" Message-ID: <33a6252b.itim itim.org.soroscj.ro> To: "vortex" Cc: "Peter Glueck" Subject: Pd SIMS Resent-Message-ID: <"ARFLV.0.Pm2.nqXfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8341 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thank you, Elliot for the interesting report re. isotopic shifts in CF materials. You wrote, inter alia: "Because the isotopic shifts are small and occur only in the top one micron of the surface...." Can you please tell us if these shifts are uniformly distributed on the surface ? Thank you in advance! Peter -- dr. Peter Gluck Institute of Isotopic and Molecular Technology Fax:064-420042 Cluj-Napoca, str. Donath 65-103, P.O.Box 700 Tel:064-184037/144 Cluj 5, 3400 Romania Home: 064-174976 E-mail: peter itim.org.soroscj.ro , peterg@oc1.itim-cj.ro From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 16 23:14:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA19139; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:10:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:10:56 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970617020920_1620716841 emout20.mail.aol.com> To: gwatson microtronics.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re : SMOT Reports ............. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"iLMGL2.0.tg4.gfYfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8342 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 17/06/1997 02:02:54 , you wrote : << Hi All, Come on GUYS, do some reporting. Its SIMPLE. Achieve something for ALL the effort you have put into the SMOTS. The reports ARE IMPORTANT if these tests are to be taken seriously. The first report is up. Have a look and REPORT. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ >> Also, Greg, we wait always YOUR PHOTOS ( and/or your videos ) of your SMOT device WORKING in closed loop...... ( and many answers to my previous Emails.....) Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 00:23:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA19419; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:22:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:22:09 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:20:45 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Full Moon Near! Resent-Message-ID: <"9NSJ5.0.Ll4.WiZfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8343 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 5:48 PM 6/16/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote: [snip] > >How you doing this summer, Horace? :-) > >Regards, Frederick It's daylight all the time here now. You can read by daylight at midnight. It's Jan/Feb that causes cabin fever. Fortunately, my son has won state piano competitions the last four years in a row, giving the family cause to travel to the lower 48 in January for regional competitions. That trip outside seems to take the edge off enough to make it through the winter. This Jan we went to Portland. The cabby in Portland thought it was a little strange (and cold) for me to want to take my shoes off and run through the grass. When I explained we were from Alaska he smiled knowingly - he was from Siberia. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 01:22:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA24846; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 01:15:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 01:15:05 -0700 Date: 17 Jun 97 04:13:58 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Remediation, SMOTs and Ragland Message-ID: <970617081358_100433.1541_BHG72-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"5qSBk3.0.546.8Uafp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8344 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gnorts, all, Some disconnected maunderings on recent topics here. As to the various reports on nuclear transmutations, whilst I accept that it is flawed reasoning to propose that if excess heat is beyond chemistry then it must be a nuclear effect, we have plenty of evidence for such effects. OK, we can argue about the quality of the evidence, but it's there. So it is not too extraordinary that we should now be hearing from CETI and others of remediation of radioactive materials. I don't know how well-studied are the CETI results, I have much more confidence in the other group (see the forthcoming issue of Infinite Energy) because of the high quality of the reported tests, tests which include the kind of gross chemical analysis that I have strongly advocated. This leads to an immediate difficulty, one which I previously pointed out and christened The Incandescent Chicken Problem (with a bow to the well-known Dead Graduate Student problem). Kervran and others reported that chickens can derive from potassium the calcium for the shells of their eggs. But such a transmutation (39K + p -> 40Ca) would require around 8Mev per atom - excuse me if I have the details wrong, but the principle remains - and this would fricassee the chick big style. The same argument has been stated here, in reference to nuclear remediation, with more rigour. Put simply, if the purported processes accelerated decay, then everyone would get fried by the radiation. If they were new processes which provoked transmutation or fission, then - radiation or none - the energy balance requires meltdown of the apparatus (and probably the entire lab). (As an aside, I would suggest that the massive discrepancies between the distribution of the elements in terrestrial and meteoritic samples suggests to me an anomaly which also requires an explanation along similarly alchemical lines.) We also know that the processes would require a clear violation of nuclear physics as we know it - you can't provoke these effects in these ways. So, is there any way around these huge difficulties? For what little my ideas are worth, I suggest that these are not nuclear processes at all. Nuclear physics is the study of the behaviour of individual nuclei and their interaction with other single nuclei or particles. However, if large groups of atoms (not simply their nuclei) were to combine their wave-functions in some way (perhaps the Bose-Einstein condensate might give some pointers here) and the resultant "aggregate" super-atom should then collapse, then we might find a completely new set of atoms afterwards. Such a collapse might strongly favour the production of atoms with stable nuclei. Well, that's exactly what we are told are seen. So, regardless of ol Bill Ockham, I'm suggesting a whole new branch of physics - one which, compared with nuclear physics, would be as different as biochemistry in comparison with the chemistry of the blast-furnace. Now, the SMOT. Greg may not appreciate just how badly some of us want the thing to work. Whether the machine be some bizarre heat-engine which thumbs its nose at the second law, or whether it taps the zpe - or even operates in violation of the first law - a lot of us want it. But, be it reasonable or not, more than one of us is losing a little of our hope for the device. Why? Well, why have we been so interested and intrigued when we've all been here before and found nothing before? The reason has been Greg's admirable openness and extraordinarily helpful approach, combined with the admittedly very entertaining behaviour some of us have seen from our replication efforts. I certainly will attest to seeing rollalong through several ramps, but I can't get them to raise the ball at all. That may be because my magnets are warped, certainly I know that some of the adjustments are horribly finicky. Yes, I can half-believe that the loop can be closed. But we can't even get a video of a closed loop running, and Greg hasn't reported a closed loop since his earlier efforts. Nobody else has reported one at all. Even Greg gives the impression that he's a bit bogged down at present. OK, OK, compare the timescale with any other in this field, and remember that "history takes longer while you are living through it." But ... well, it all looked as though it was going to be quite simple ... and it isn't quite simple. I remain hopeful, though. I'm especially pleased that Greg is willing to revisit SMOT when most people would simply move on to the various RMODs. Finally (for those who are still awake) I should mention that I hope to be firing up the second Ragland triode cell today. It's all set up, I only need to run a couple of calibrations to see that it behaves like the previous one - which didn't do anything odd. It should be noted that I do not attempt to obtain the accuracy or precision of Scott's calorimetry, the idea of mine being simply that we are not very interested in a few percent of excess energy because we don't think anyone else will be very interested in that. Our calorimeter reliably recovers around 80% of the joule heating, and we are looking for energy release of multiples of that heating. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 02:23:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA30166; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:19:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:19:05 -0700 From: ehammond pacbell.net Message-ID: <33A656E6.63C6 pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:20:38 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-PBME (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re; Recent Conference References: <199706170137.SAA18545 Au.oro.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sTV-52.0.GN7.8Qbfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8345 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Russian results where chemical reaction rates were found to very with cosmic cycles has importance in trying how to understand the influences that affect the behavior of experiments. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 02:26:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA03508; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:22:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:22:56 -0700 (PDT) From: ehammond pacbell.net Message-ID: <33A6579A.5D29 pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:23:38 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-PBME (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Full Moon Near! References: <19970617014758.AAA556 LOCALNAME> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LJk9G.0.ks.jTbfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8346 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lets see if SMOTs and cold fusion experiments start growing chest hair. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 02:43:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA31835; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:38:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:38:38 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 03:44:41 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: freenrg-l eskimo.com cc: gwatson microtronics.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Reports.. PLEASE!!!kiss/bitE+ In-Reply-To: <970617020920_1620716841 emout20.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RPcqU3.0.In7.Tibfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8347 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: NONE SMOTE's need not read.. Greg, no need to reply.. trying to BITE+ it now for you:) Greg wrote... > Come on GUYS, do some reporting. Its SIMPLE. Achieve something for ALL > the effort you have put into the SMOTS. > The reports ARE IMPORTANT if these tests are to be taken seriously. Greg, You had a lot of exclimation points behind that ....PLEASE!!!!!!!! (originally:). I just wanted to check in and let you know about your KISS (keep it Simple Stupid) and my direction BITE (Be Infinate to EVERYTHING). This was both to 'relieve' my frustions of my magnets 200+ little ones all over (50% painted RED=north pole & 50% painted WHITE south pole) STICKING to my tools (pliers..balls..pins..tack..and paper clips not to mentioned the spare ramps and anything else metal around! ------------------- Anyway, just to let you know there is at least one other out there pulling out his hair, when I decided to BITE+ it.. (!NOTE- your smot was too 'simple' (or I'm too lucky), but I got a roll-away first time (YES!!) I saw the smoke/SMOT!! . Was going Rotary, when I also read of the groups desdain of not having another closed loop. Well, I'm back in the running now!; (and my wife too says I've lost my marbles), am going BITE+ design for the longest running unit. I want a 'totally adjustable' SOLID unit (ssmot)that can be 'shipped' from here to there. (anywhere). Including Berry's $200.00 address for a while. (let's see 18 hrs/day x 30-900 days yea!:)ok THERE IS "TOO MUCH EXIT" - FOR THIS NOT TO WORK! ------------------------ OK,I'm an over kill kind of person, hence my base is now a 1/3 of a Fire-rated Door (about 40+ pounds) cut to 3x3'. (heavy, but will travel!) (plane, ship, rail etc..) my 'E' shaped BITE+-it mount, versus KISS (great:) mount, should provide a 'BETTER?' configuration than a U-Joint (or close to a 2 U-Joint advantage). My thoughts were that we need to (UP-DOWN) lift the ramp as well as being able to swivel it (LEFT-RIGHT) 'while still being able to' adjust it (IN-OUT) back and forth to achieve the maximum exit in the 'blue-hole' area. (2 'U-joints *don't* do this!!') been there! :( :) [see E+ shape as (top)birds-eye view with center 'pivotable' for (up-down) with the ramp/channel running length-wise like $ dollar sign, only connected to the Top & bottom of the E lines - not center + of E+.] The 'E+ mount' has a 'U'cradle at the TOP of the 'E' to support the ramp channel. (a snug but slidable square "U" shape - supporting the ramp). The bottom leg of the 'E_+mount' is the longest, going to & through the ramp-channel with a 'lock-nut' on the opposing side to hold (BITE+ it) when everything is 'set correctly'!. The Center of the 'E+ shape' mount (the + in this case) will PIVOT the 'E' for up-down, and be welded(!),glued or attached to a slidable BASE (having 'flat-clamps' to secure the postions, 'Slidable' for (IN-OUT). I'm using one (1) screw at the ramp base to allow for PIVOT (LEFT-RIGHT) off the bottom E_+ leg . The "E" is spring assisted top to bottom like a modern auto 'Carburater adjustment screw!'. I can't KISS IT any MORE than above,... maybe an Mech Eng. is out there, but u 'universial joints' or ux2 *doesn't do it*.. so I'll BITE+! ------------------- I know! a picture is worth a zillion(giga?) words, but CSHOW is all I have to convert images to .gifs and PINE to send them out - it didn't seem to work on my attempts. ( I have kermit,x,y,Zmodem that trashes it,ftp?? ) & don't want to support Bill Gates anymore thanks.. but will bend if need be. (I have been trying locally, sending me1 to me2 (different server accounts) and still no luck (hit MIME conver-version filters?) IS ANYONE OUT THERE USING .GIF ATTACMENTS VIA PINE?? (pre-browser -ok!:) --------------------- Actually this (above) is just a mini "C-Clamp" with a "C+" center Pivot on a base. I tired to KISS it! :) even to the point that one(1) "E+"mount design can be interchanged or used for RAMP & MAGNETS!.. although the Ramp is the most important. (up-down)(left-right)(in-out)etc.. like I said, I got blast-off!:) first time (lucky me)?. So I intend to BITE+ every possible position (360 degrees) with ALL adjustments reachable by user (not under the ramp (like an incline screw),but, exposed to the top or side access, for user friendly adjustments. GREG, this is your 'baby', if I get it right, your 1st rights of refussal are still intact! :), but i think you'll like it & it's YOURS! ------------------------------- I'll be in the back ground now (again).. closing loop (Y E S - it's there!) A BITE+ is not a KISS :) takes a bit longer(?) to apply/build?! Will send my form or Progress REPORT when complete (i'm getting slower as my mind cracks here with this and still only 24 hours in a day). BUT WHEN DONE my BITE+ UNIT will be shipable, displayable or the death of me! :) So, while I don't expect to be the second with a closed loop :), I'll race anybody now for the LONGEST RUNNING LOOP+ :) -------------- p.s. yes, Horece, I 'found' the 'E+' pivot while looking at the moon tonight.. no, i didn't see any poofs of 'snowballs' hitting, but did discover while twisting and pushing a 12mm channel in my fingers that an "E+" joint is better than 2 "U" joints. surely there's something to be said of solidity - somewhere se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 02:49:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA00054; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:44:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 02:44:58 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 03:51:02 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Full Moon Near! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"b3-Ah1.0.i.Oobfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8348 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 16 Jun 1997, Horace Heffner wrote: > knowingly - he was from Siberia. > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner > Horace, I just sent a list mail and 'mispelled' your name, hope you'll forgive me, my (colorado moon) is way south of you.. sorry :) I'm still looking up though! se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 03:46:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA05689; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 03:44:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 03:44:31 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Remediation, SMOTs and Ragland Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:43:51 +0000 Message-ID: <19970617104349.AAA18022 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"4L0ce.0.pO1.Egcfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8349 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:13 AM 6/17/97 +0000, Chris wrote: > >This leads to an immediate difficulty, one which I previously pointed >out and christened The Incandescent Chicken Problem (with a bow to the >well-known Dead Graduate Student problem). Kervran and others reported >that chickens can derive from potassium the calcium for the shells of >their eggs. But such a transmutation (39K + p -> 40Ca) would require >around 8Mev per atom - excuse me if I have the details wrong, but the >principle remains - and this would fricassee the chick big style. > >The same argument has been stated here, in reference to nuclear >remediation, with more rigour. Put simply, if the purported processes >accelerated decay, then everyone would get fried by the radiation. If >they were new processes which provoked transmutation or fission, then - >radiation or none - the energy balance requires meltdown of the >apparatus (and probably the entire lab). Not necessarily Chris, if the energy is coming off as neutrinos, which can have "rest energies" up to the Gev range. These little buggers can "go through a light-year of lead without interaction". The remaining heat can be from low energy recoil of the "fragments". The high energy "Cygnons" from Cygnus X-3 (neutral, massless and chargeless) are postulated to have a rest mass of around 50 Mev or so, are thought to be such neutrinos. > >Well, that's exactly what we are told are seen. So, regardless of ol >Bill Ockham, I'm suggesting a whole new branch of physics - one which, >compared with nuclear physics, would be as different as biochemistry in >comparison with the chemistry of the blast-furnace. Really don't need it, only need a better neutrino detector. :-) Regards, Frederick > >Chris > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 04:07:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA07442; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:06:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:06:52 -0700 Message-Id: From: jlogajan skypoint.com (John Logajan) Subject: Hiatus To: vortex-l eskimo.com (vortex-l) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:06:48 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"88zcy3.0.Cq1.B_cfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8350 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Well, I suppose I shouldn't clog this list with my personal business, but I have to go on honeymoon for two weeks. So I hope all the SMOT stuff gets straightend out by the time I get back. See ya on the other side. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 04:09:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA10021; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: From: jlogajan skypoint.com (John Logajan) Subject: Re: CETI Radioactivity To: vortex-l eskimo.com (vortex-l) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:07:45 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"z61sw1.0.VS2.r0dfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8351 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: > Another point to ponder: some have speculated that this might > be some magical form of accelerated decay to stable products. > However, in the time lapse the count drops from 300 cpm to > 150 cpm in a fairly time linear fashion, unlike decay/reaction > processes which typically obey exponential rates. Not > a definitive point, but something to bear in mind. Actually, they compiled frames from 15 minute intervals and the counts dropped from 300 to 150 in roughly equal steps until the last one or two segments when the counts didn't seem to change much at all. One wonders at the significance of this plateau. Though it may be a mistake to assume the power was on for the last 15-30 minutes. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 04:36:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA11184; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:33:04 +0200 (METDST) Message-Id: <199706171133.NAA04898 imaginet.fr> X-Sender: lentin mail2.imaginet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: Kervran & transmutation Resent-Message-ID: <"1AUfU.0.bk2.UOdfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8352 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris & Vorts Chris Tinsley wrote : > (As an aside, I would suggest that the massive discrepancies between the > distribution of the elements in terrestrial and meteoritic samples > suggests to me an anomaly which also requires an explanation along > similarly alchemical lines.) Actually Louis Kervran did very extensive research on that subject. I was fortunate enough to buy, in a second-hand books shop, his out of print second book, "Transmutations naturelles non radioactives" (Editions Maloine, 1963). Unlike his first one, "Transmutations biologiques", I guess that one was not translated and published in English. And it is entirely devoted to transmutations in geological processes. He thinks they are done mainly by bacteria. Interestingly, a last short chapter deals with "Transmutation of radioactive waste". Kervran states that the question is often asked to him, that he did not do any research with radioactive materials, but that he finds the idea theoretically possible. He suggests that certain bacteria living in heavy water or nuclear plant's water tanks could do it. He also points at resonance effects in nuclear reactions, gives an example with Strontium 90 and fluor, and quotes a mathematical nuclear model by Japanese physicist Mizuho Odagiri ("Theory of chemical superposition of states", 25 articles between 1955 and 1961). Regards to all --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin lentin imaginet.fr --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 06:57:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA20338; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:32:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:32:34 -0700 Date: 17 Jun 97 09:30:23 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: BlindCopyReceiver:; Subject: Pd SIMS Message-ID: <970617133022_72240.1256_EHB107-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"WJ_Bp2.0.iz4.o7ffp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8353 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex; >INTERNET:kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp Elliot Kennel reports, "we finally got some results back from electrochemically loaded Pd." Some questions, Elliot: Where did the sample originate? Who worked with it? How high was loading? How was loading measured? Was excess heat or any other sign of a CF reaction observed during loading? Were helium-4 or tritium detected; did the sample become radioactive? If you saw no CF reaction there is no reason to expect isotopic shifts. Have you looked at Mizuno's samples of Pd? If you are trying to confirm his results, it seems to me this would be the logical thing to do. Have you looked at Ohmori's Au samples? He has a large number of them. As I have pointed out before, Mizuno and Ohmori are 20 minutes away from you. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 07:48:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA28483; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:38:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:38:44 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: < snip.net> From: "Mike Carrell" To: Subject: Re: Remediation Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:11:52 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19970617143806097.AAB212 default> Resent-Message-ID: <"CiveC3.0.qy6.f5gfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8354 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is response to quibbles about the remediation experiments and Chris' thoughts. I don't speak from any expertise, but if you assume that remediation means conversion to raw energy, or accelerated decay along the usual paths, then of course we will have incandescent chickens and dead graduate students. Why must the theorists in the gallery assume that theories about Condition A must apply to Condition B? It is the exceptions (anomalies) that prove (test) the rule, which is found wanting. What I can see of the evidence is that Condition B allows the extra protons and those present in target nuclei to rearrange into a lower energy condition which includes new elements, without much mass conversion to produce heat or hard radiation. The "insuperable" coulomb barrier is in people's heads, not in nature; it is evident in simple systems and perhaps malleable in complex systems. We are definitely not in Kansas. MIke Carrell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 07:48:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA28499; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: < snip.net> From: "Mike Carrell" To: Subject: Re: Thermomagnetism Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:47:06 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19970617143806097.AAA212 default> Resent-Message-ID: <"uXW6B3.0._y6.g5gfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8355 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A note to those discussing and puzzling over a possible relation between heat and magnetism. Do check out the work of Harold Aspden, who has been working at this very area for decades and makes it a key area in his Aether Science. A substantial sampling of his work is to be found at http://ourworld/compuserve.com/homepages/H_ASPDEN there is more in his books and publications which you can order. Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 08:07:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA02047; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:02:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:02:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Steck" Message-Id: <9706170954.ZM8897 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:54:03 -0500 In-Reply-To: Mail Delivery Subsystem "Returned mail: Host unknown" (Jun 17, 9:52am) References: <199706171452.JAA08863 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Thermomagnetism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"A79iL1.0.vV.bRgfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8356 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Jun 17, 9:31am, Mike Carrell wrote: > > A substantial sampling of his work is to be found at > > http://ourworld/compuserve.com/homepages/H_ASPDEN > > there is more in his books and publications which you can order. Site has moved to 8^) -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 09:06:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA09778; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:03:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:03:31 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:03:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706171603.JAA11936 denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: SMOT Reports.. PLEASE!!!kiss/bitE+ Resent-Message-ID: <"yRqoJ.0.iO2.ILhfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8357 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:44 AM 6/17/97 -0600, Steve Ekwall wrote: [snip] > >I know! a picture is worth a zillion(giga?) words, but CSHOW is all I have >to convert images to .gifs and PINE to send them out - it didn't seem to work >on my attempts. ( I have kermit,x,y,Zmodem that trashes it,ftp?? ) & >don't want to support Bill Gates anymore thanks.. but will bend if need >be. (I have been trying locally, sending me1 to me2 (different server >accounts) and still no luck (hit MIME conver-version filters?) IS ANYONE >OUT THERE USING .GIF ATTACMENTS VIA PINE?? (pre-browser -ok!:) Hi Steve, Are you using Eudora Lite for your e-mail software? If so, then it sends gif files automatically. Your Bite+ design sounds interesting. Confused about what you're using but if it is solid and is bolted down then your closed the loop should run for a long time. The pins holding the mag assays in my designs always got loose over time and it then affected the ball climbing characteristics. Looking forward to seeing your gif and hearing more of your experiments. Best Regards, Michael Randall From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 09:46:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA13420; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A6BCE3.6067 interlaced.net> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:35:47 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: MOT and Power Gen 95 References: <970616232859_845388945 emout15.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"s6TiK.0.bH3.rphfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8358 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FZNIDARSIC aol.com wrote: > Effectively I've sold my stock for $72. > > $72-$49/49 = a nice 47% profit > Good tip, Frank! At least your investments are OU! Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 10:45:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA29233; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:34:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:34:19 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: MOT and Power Gen 95 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:34:09 +0000 Message-ID: <19970617173407.AAA22257 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"TqUt51.0.h87.Qgifp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8359 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:35 PM 6/17/97 +0000, Frank Stenger wrote: >FZNIDARSIC aol.com wrote: >> > Effectively I've sold my stock for $72. >> >> $72-$49/49 = a nice 47% profit >> >Good tip, Frank! At least your investments are OU! Nice one, Frank. My investments usually come out I.O.U. :-) Regards, Frederick > >Frank Stenger > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 10:56:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA31852; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:51:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:51:12 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:51:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Martin Sevior To: Greg Watson Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT Reports ............. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <33A5C3D0.301F microtronics.com.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5DfNX1.0.cn7.Fwifp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8360 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 17 Jun 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > > The first report is up. Have a look and REPORT. > I didn't fill out an important part of your java-form. The maximum lift attained was 12 mm. I couldn't get anything higher. I observed roll-aways if the exit rail was 3mm below the entrence height. I had a bit of a go at linking but I didn't have time to establish a stable platform before I left Australia. When SMOT V 2.0 is released I'll get back to SMOTTing. By the way if your new ramps are that much better at linking why not go for a gang of 3 in each straight section? It appears that a single ramp roll-away is very hard to reliably reproduce. Call your present ramps version 2, release details for a 2 * 3 ramp "raceways". Presumably there's enough lift to do a 180 degree turn there. Then work on version 3.0 single ramp roll away. You never know, once version 2.0 is out there, someone may save you the trouble of working out version 3.0 by doing it themselves. Cheers Martin Sevior From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 11:25:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA26349; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:16:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Cold Fusion in the Swan Constellation? Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:15:17 +0000 Message-ID: <19970617181515.AAA8498 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"ThO182.0.dR6.GIjfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8361 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Vortex: Cygnus X-1, which is supposed to be a remnant of the supernova of 1408 and Cygnus X-3, also in the "Swan" constellation about 40,000 light-years from earth in our 100,000 light-year diameter galaxy are sending out enormous quantities of high energy cosmic rays and other "mysterious" particles like the "Cygnon" (which may be a high energy neutrino). In a decay process (hot or cold)the lightest particles-energy entities carry off the lion's share of the energy. Could it be that the technology "out there" is 40,000 years ahead of ours, and "they" are using Cold Fusion routinely, in spite of supernova 1408? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 13:04:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA18821; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:54:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:54:27 -0700 Date: 17 Jun 97 15:52:42 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: News release from R. Bass Message-ID: <970617195242_72240.1256_EHB98-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"DCsqs.0.xb4.ojkfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8362 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex Here is an announcement from Robert Bass about a development we will describe in the next issue of Infinite Energy. This is revised version of his announcement, dated 17-Jun-97 13:55 EDT. - JR Breakthrough of the Century! NEWS RELEASE transmitted by: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Robert W. Bass, M.A.Oxon, Ph.D. Registered Patent Agent 29,130 INNOVENTECH Inc. P.O. Box 1238, Pahrump, NV 89041-1238 VoiceMail: (702) 387-7213 FAX: (702) 751-0739 Home: (702) 751-0932 e-Mail: rbrtbass pahrump.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- NEWS RELEASE ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Monday, June 16, 1997 LOW-ENERGY BULK-PROCESS ALCHEMY One-Tenth Gram of Thorium Becomes Titanium & Copper Most Sacrosanct Principles of Physics Overturned CINCINNATI, OHIO: In a stunning upset of the fundamental dogmas of high-energy nuclear physics, a small group of inspired inventors acting in the tradition of the Wright Brothers of nearby Dayton OH, has achieved reliable, multiply-confirmed, replicable-upon-demand, low-energy, bulk-process, high-speed, dirt-cheap, modern alchemy. For example, in less than an hour, one-tenth gram of radioactive thorium has been transmuted into nine-hundredths gram of titanium plus one-hundredth gram of copper. After two years of partial public disclosures, these latter-day Prometheans have finally achieved multiple third-party confirmations by numerous established measurement techniques and cross-checking procedures to rule out irrefutably all possibility of contamination or other experimental error, and are now calling for the public to encourage the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), and the Department of Energy (DOE), to pay attention to their unprecedented technological breakthrough, which seems providentially to have arrived at the height of national concern over the expensive and dangerous problem posed by disposal of massive stockpiles of radioactive wastes produced both by the Department of Defense (DOD) atomic-weapons program and by the nation's many civilian nuclear power-generating plants. Conventional-minded physical scientists have long- proclaimed low-energy bulk-process transmutation of one chemical element into another to be a flatly impossible "ancient and medieval dream" whose absurdity has been exposed by modern discoveries concerning the structure of the atom and its nucleus. Supposedly only multi-million- dollar high-energy particle accelerators, operating at energies in excess of tens of thousands of electron volts in expensive national laboratories, can perform nuclear alchemy, and that only in invisible amounts too small for ordinary comprehension or practical utility. In contrast, the new process announced by the Cincinnati Group, as it is known to the few thousand remaining followers of the long-smoldering cold fusion controversy, could be reproduced in any high-school laboratory. The total power required to transmute one tenth gram of thorium is less than 300 watts, and the processing time is under an hour, so less than three- tenths of a kilowatt-hour (or less than three pennies' worth of electricity) is the energy requirement. The patent-pending, proprietary reaction vessel, whose technical secrets will be made available for independent replication by others as soon as the Patent issues (or at once, to serious investigators, under a standard Non- Disclosure Agreement [NDA]), fits inside of a four-inch cube. Initially five identical processing cells were fabricated, after the process was discovered by trial-and- error in one corner of a welding shop. The process has never failed to transmute at least eighty percent of one- tenth gram of thorium metal in under one hour at a power cost of less than three-tenths of a kW-hr. Other elements, such as ultra-dangerous cesium-137, and uranium, also have been processed with similar results, auguring hope that mankind's Faustian-bargain nightmare of long- lived high-level radioactive waste can at last be eliminated. Different sizes of cells have been constructed and operated successfully, indicating that the process can be scaled up from grams to tons at will. The objective is to convert a radioactive element into non-radioactive elements, which happens in nature over millions or billions of years depending upon the particular "radio-nuclide" under consideration. For example, in nature, uranium and thorium decay, by emission of alpha- &-beta-particles, in a long and complicated chain of reactions which stops only when the final decay products are isotopes of lead. It takes thorium ten half-lives, or 45 billion years, for 99.9 percent of any sample to decay naturally into lead. However, the new process causes random multiple fragmentation of the thorium nucleus into elements which are non-radioactive when first created, thereby drastically speeding up the process by eliminating the need for further radioactive decay. In one particular run, thorium was transmuted entirely into titanium and copper, within experimental error of the measuring instruments. In this case the transmutation result consisted of ninety-percent titanium and ten-percent copper. In other runs, the result was almost entirely copper, with a small amount of titanium and iron. In one particular test, the result was about one-tenth of a gram of flakes of copper, which could be seen with the naked eye and picked up with tweezers! A color photo of this man-made copper is available. The fact that this could not have been due to contamination was subsequently ruled out by processing cell blanks along with the thorium test samples, in which the only difference in the solutions placed into the reaction vessel was the presence or absence of dissolved thorium nitrate. Moreover, the clinching evidence that the copper could not have been the result of error or hoax was that its isotopic abundance ratio was discrepant from that of natural copper by about two thousand percent! In naturally-occurring copper, the abundance of the isotope of atomic weight 65 (meaning that there is a total of 65 protons and neutrons in its nucleus) constitutes about 45 percent of the amount of the copper isotope of atomic weight 63. But in the test-run which produced macroscopically visible copper flakes, the abundance ratio was increased by a factor of 21.7 to a staggering 973 percent! Likewise two of the four isotopes of titanium in another run were hugely discrepant as regards natural isotopic abundance ratios. To produce one-tenth of a gram of copper and titanium isotopes so out of alignment with what occurs in nature suggests to those familiar with the difficulty of separation of other metallic isotopes that would-be hoaxers are facing a mini-Manhattan project, which is obviously far beyond the resources of private individuals working on a modest budget. This single piece of evidence alone precludes the possibility of hoax or error. However, the Cincinnati Group, remembering the violent skepticism which greeted the claims of Fleischmann & Pons in 1989 to have demonstrated "cold" nuclear fusion of deuterium into helium by electrolysis in a simple electrochemical cell, have subjected their process to the scrutiny of every known sophisticated measurement process, at both a nationally prominent testing laboratory and two nationally reputable universities, with confirmatory results. The before-and-after testing of the process- sample has employed both quadrupole mass spectrometry (utilizing an inductively coupled plasma excitation source) and atomic-emission spectrometry (based upon scanning electron microscopy). Also used were Geiger counters (to note decrease in external counts during processing) and computer-monitored scintillation counters for more accurate quantitative measurements of initial and final radiation emission by the bare unprocessed and processed samples themselves. The basic protocol involves dissolving one gram of thorium nitrate in 100 milliliters (ml) of double-distilled water and other reagents. Then 75 ml is retained for testing as a "before" or unprocessed sample, while 25 ml is inserted into the reaction vessel. Electric current is run through the cell for less than one hour. The contents of the cell are then collected for testing as an "after" or processed sample. To ascertain that no radioactive elements remain in the cell, it is disassembled and each part monitored for radioactivity. Additionally, one unused cell was ground up, dissolved in acid, and the digested mixture tested [by ICP/MS & TEM-EDXA] to ensure that no contaminants sufficient to produce the observed amounts of copper, titanium, etc. were present. Furthermore even though such amounts of contaminants were already known not to be present, and yet to double-check under the fictitious assumption that they might have been present, and that ablation, leaching and/or possible transmutation of some of the elements of the cell itself might have led to error in the results, a blank test was also prepared and subjected to the reaction process, in which the sole difference between the blank run and the actual run was the absence or presence of thorium nitrate in the solution introduced into the reaction chamber. Most of the mass- spectroscopy analyses were done on four separate but related samples: (1) a reagent blank [whose results were subtracted from the following results]; (2) a cell blank [as already described]; (3) a processed sample; and (4) an unprocessed sample [from the same initial batch]. The conclusion about what percentage of the thorium had been transmuted was based upon comparison of items (3) and (4). One of the many runs based upon the protocol just described led to a "Third Party Verification" Certificate which reads in part: "The quantitative analysis of the data indicated that the amount of thorium which had undergone transmutation was equivalent to the amount of titanium plus copper which had been formed, within experimental error." Traditionally, science has been based upon openness and peer-reviewed publications, with no details omitted, and widespread acceptance contingent upon independent replication and confirmation. Unfortunately, basic science as practiced today is almost entirely dependent upon public funding, such as from the National Science Foundation (NSF), NASA, or, as already mentioned, the DOD and DOE. But in the case of cold fusion (CF), which is a special case of the present subject of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR), the Energy Research Advisory Board (ERAB) Report submitted to the DOE and essentially claiming that CF/LENR and the like are "physically IMPOSSIBLE" has precluded normally funded research in this emergent field. Therefore it has been all bootlegged or privately funded by small entities. The Cincinnati Group, operating upon a shoestring, and obtaining results which the august National Academy of Science (NAS), in an elaborately expensive study and report to the DOE on the subject of cost-effective radioactive waste elimination by transmutation, has branded as essentially "inherently physically impossible," has no choice but to seek Patent Protection for its intellectual property in order to attract the necessary venture capital by means of which this almost-miraculous process can be scaled up from grams to pounds and, eventually, to tons. Concerned citizens, who would like to see "a twenty- first century science solution" to the agonizing national problem of Radwaste Remediation (RR), should urge their Senators to encourage the Assistant Commissioner for Patents of the USPTO to strongly encourage Art Group 220 to expedite the issuance of CF/LENR patents. Only when the dead hand of the Establishment is taken off the necks of America's real creators, the small, independent inventors, and the Patent System functions in the manner which the founding fathers of this country intended when they authorized it in the Constitution, can the average citizen-taxpayer benefit from such breakthroughs as that now announced by the Cincinnati Group. In conclusion, the Cincinnati Group wishes to express its appreciation to those who have helped it the most, starting with those elements of the national press who do not cater to "pack mentality," They would not have started their project if it had not been for the courageous decision of the Editors and Publishers of "Popular Science" magazine, breaking with their colleagues at "Nature", "Science" and "Scientific American," to feature as a cover story "It Ain't Over Til It's Over!," a hard-hitting unbiased account of the CF scandal by "Wall Street Journal" reporter Jerry Bishop. From this article, the Cincinnati Group learned to contact Dr. Hal Fox, founder of the Fusion Information Center [P.O. Box 58639, Salt Lake City, UT 84158-0638], who advised them that the nation perhaps needed RR more desperately than cheap, clean energy at the present time. Fox, who publishes the archival, internationally Abstracted, peer-reviewed "Journal of New Energy," also publishes a "CF Source Book" which he has dedicated to "The Children of Chernobyl." The Cincinnati Group further publicly acknowledges great help from Dr. Eugene Mallove, publisher and editor of "Infinite Energy" magazine [available for an annual subscription of $29.50 from P.O. Box 2816, Concord, NH 03302-2816], whose next issue will contain much more detail pertaining to the presently announced seemingly-miraculous achievement. Persons with a scientific interest who would like to peruse unedited copies of the Test Reports summarized above (or contemplate signing an NDA in order to receive full disclosure) may contact Celine at P.O. Box 1262, Covington, KY 4172-1262 or, M-F, at (513) 244-1144. After June 19, the merely curious may consult the Cincinnati Group's forthcoming web page. --------------------------------END----------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Transmitted by: Dr. Robert W. Bass, Registered Patent Agent 29,130 [ex-Prof Physics] Inventor: Topolotron, Plasmasphere, issued; QRT Cold Fusion, pending P.O.Box 1238, Pahrump, NV 89041-1238; phone/FAX (702) 751-0932/0739 Voice-Mail: (702) 387-7213 e-Mail: rbrtbass pahrump.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 13:44:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA23041; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:25:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:25:42 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:31:30 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: SMOT Reports.. gifs In-Reply-To: <199706171603.JAA11936 denmark.it.earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QifPj.0.xd5.5Blfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8363 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 17 Jun 1997, Michael Randall wrote: >>> At 03:44 AM 6/17/97 -0600, Steve Ekwall wrote: >>>CSHOW is all I haveto convert images to .gifs and PINE to send them > Hi Steve, > > Are you using Eudora Lite for your e-mail software? If so, then it sends gif > files automatically. > Michael Randall > > PINE is all I have now at present, Will try to find Eudora Lite (does this run on a PC/Dos 4086? PINE offers a ^R 'Read File' attachment command, and it DOES find the file, AND says it is attached... just upon arrival it's a big blank.. maybe my server 'filters' outgoing .gifs? although I can get and read/see them ok 80% the time from you all out there.. MIME seems to be one of the clues to destruction. se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX 3:44 am (sigh) sorry about my poor spelling. B"i"te+ was was suppose to "BE 'Infinite' To Everything" 360 degrees adjustment. back to work (tinker -tinker -tinker, build -build build, make -make -make read e-mail too, man, were does a guy get time to get a drink around here.) ;-) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 13:56:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA14531; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:46:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:46:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970617004711.AAA24871 LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:43:56 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Thermomagnetic-Thermoelectric & Magnetocaloric Effects. Resent-Message-ID: <"jXrSH.0.vY3.JUlfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8364 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick - > "Magnetcaloric effect (thermodynamics) The > reversible change of temperature accompanying > the change of magnetization of a ferromagnetic > material." That's it. Magnetocaloric it is then. But I still want to know: how does this effect produce energy? Is it really the source of a SMOT's energy gain, or is it just a pathway for energy sourced elsewhere? Using the magnetocaloric conversion of ambient heat as a source makes it look like the machines are running the 2nd law in reverse. But then so does any engine when you fail to recognize the real source of the energy, and are simply observing the energy at the point in the system where it makes its presence terribly obvious. As a fringe science enthusiast I'm not sane enough to be completely beyond throwing out 2nd Therm on a whim, but this does have me temporarily concluding that the SMOT may not be a machine that runs on ambient heat contained in the environment and mass of its components. Therefore, the magnetocaloric effects are probably just gating energy in from elsewhere. Any idea where elsewhere is? Anyone? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 14:07:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA32147; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:03:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:03:31 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970617003008.AAA9565 LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:52:08 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Thermomagnetism Resent-Message-ID: <"K9iw22.0.Ds7.Xklfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8365 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick - > Kinda helps to have a game plan before you start > cutting steel. That's how Greg got the ball rolling, > so to speak. On the other hand if you knew how they > made sausages you'd probably never touch the stuff. > :-) LOL! Yeah, if I knew how Stark Gibbering Bonkers all that adjustment hassle was going to make me with the conventional Watson ramps, I probably never would have tried it! I got two ramps to link, but with no altitude gain. It's hard! Since then, I've been playing with Blanton arrays on straight pieces of track. I've had some interesting results, and have some apparent decent altitude gains now I'm trying to solidify and see what kind of a level rollaway I can get. I'll post results and details when I get a solid replicable result. Thanks for posting the summary of the various magnetic effects. I think it helps (?). :) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 14:35:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA20261; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A7014F.32EB microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 06:57:43 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Mark II Plans Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JkNce3.0.Vy4.W9mfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8366 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: HI All, Thanks for the SMOT Mark I results. Keep them coming. I am finishing up the SMOT Mark II plans now. Will put them up later today. But before you see them and tear apart your SMOT Mark I ramps, how about doing a few measurements and reporting your hard won results for history? Idea > test > record > improve > test > record > improvr > test > record > etc. Its the scientific way! The only way! Do it! -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 14:52:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA23831; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:50:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:50:10 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33A70630.214A math.ucla.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:48:32 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: News release from R. Bass References: <970617195242_72240.1256_EHB98-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Zbj3.0.Fq5.CQmfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8367 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > > > Here is an announcement from Robert Bass about a development -- > Monday, June 16, 1997 Not exactly the most restrained or accurate press release I have seen.... > > In naturally-occurring copper, the abundance of the > isotope of atomic weight 65 (meaning that there is a total > of 65 protons and neutrons in its nucleus) constitutes > about 45 percent of the amount of the copper isotope of > atomic weight 63. But in the test-run which produced > macroscopically visible copper flakes, the abundance ratio > was increased by a factor of 21.7 to a staggering 97.3 > percent! To produce one-tenth of a gram of [isotopically > shifted] copper would-be hoaxers are facing a > mini-Manhattan project, which is obviously far beyond the > resources of private individuals working on a modest budget. > This single piece of evidence alone precludes the possibility > of hoax Well, it would be a very mini-manhattan project: you can buy 1/10 gram of isotopically pure C63 from ISOTEK, Inc for $205. Since the cost of the Manhattan project was ~ 20 Billion today dollars, we can quantify the effort needed to obtain such anomalous Cu as 10 nano-manhattan projects. If someone wanted to hoax such things, the cost is minimal (~ $1000/gm for isotopically pure forms of fairly abundant non-precious elements). I'm not saying the Cincinnati group is a hoax. Personally, I have a hard time swallowing results from folks who get direct divine inspiration, so I don't have any great expectations for them. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 15:21:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA15822; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:15:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:15:12 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:11:39 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: Vortex Subject: Re: Remediation, SMOTs and Ragland In-Reply-To: <970617081358_100433.1541_BHG72-1 CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"yWdZ8.0.4t3.lnmfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8368 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., If you read Barker patent you will see the nuclear math and so on, which is beyond me, but is known in the field. No rules violated. JHS From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 16:02:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA06378; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A715D2.659C skylink.net> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:55:14 -0700 From: Robert Stirniman X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: News release from R. Bass References: <970617195242_72240.1256_EHB98-1 CompuServe.COM> <33A70630.214A@math.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1wHVE1.0.ZZ1.-Pnfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8369 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry Merriman writes: > If someone wanted to hoax such things, the cost is minimal > (~ $1000/gm for isotopically pure forms of fairly abundant non-precious > elements). > I'm not saying the Cincinnati group is a hoax. Barry, it seems you are strongly suggesting that it probably is a hoax. If so, it will be turned out soon enough. And if it is not? > I have a hard time swallowing results from folks who get > direct divine inspiration, so I don't have any great expectations > for them. A funny word, inspiration. A la Webster -- A divine influence which causes men to accept and spread divine doctrines. Great expectations indeed. Regards, Robert Stirniman From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 16:17:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA08950; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:14:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:14:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: 17 Jun 97 19:10:32 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: News release from R. Bass Message-ID: <970617231032_100433.1541_BHG49-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"bhRZo1.0.mB2.Ofnfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8370 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry, > Not exactly the most restrained or accurate press release I have > seen.... Bob gets carried away a bit. Wait for the full details and independent test results in next month's IE. Er ... as for unrestrained and misleading press releases ... ah, no, I can't. > Personally, I have a hard time swallowing results from folks who > get direct divine inspiration, so I don't have any great > expectations for them. Well - I know what you mean, but in fact that's "ad hominem," innit? Don't we have to judge on the evidence? By the way, I see from UK TV listings that Frank Close has been reduced to being sceptical about UFOs. That reminds me of Orson Welles, who started his career with Citizen Kane and ended up doing instant coffee ads. Thus indeed are the mighty fallen... Chris (well, it *was* my turn.) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 16:31:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA11398; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A71C57.10C1 microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:53:04 +0930 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: SMOT Results Report Corrections Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R3z612.0.mn2.drnfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8371 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I have received 7 reports to date. Thank you. I have posted them to my web page. There seems to be some confusion on 2 of the items : 1) Dropaway. This is a measure of how far a ball placed at the end of the ramp must be "manually" pushed down below the exit level to drop away from the exit field. This figure is normally in the range of 3 to 6mm. The lift - dropaway figure then gives you some indication of the amount of PE available to rollaway. It was one of the key design elements in the development of the SMOT Mark II design. To get rollaways, it is critical that you understand this measurement and what it means. Max lift is NOT always the goal. Lift - dropaway = PE rollaway IS! Sometimes lower lift will give better results as the magnets's top spacing can be opened out and dropaway reduces faster than lift drops resulting in better PE rollaway. 2) Array spacings. This is measured from the top and bottom most interior faces of the arrays to the opposite point. If you have posted results, would you verify your posting on my site and per the above. I am working on the Java source to include the additional data as shown on the site. The email report is current. Anyway, back to the SMOT Mk II drawings. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 17:30:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA22685; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33A7296B.5A91 math.ucla.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:18:51 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: News release from R. Bass References: <970617231032_100433.1541_BHG49-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ce_mJ.0.MY5.Vdofp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8372 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > > Personally, I have a hard time swallowing results from folks who > > get direct divine inspiration, so I don't have any great > > expectations for them. > > Well - I know what you mean, but in fact that's "ad hominem," innit? > Don't we have to judge on the evidence? Absolutely. Its quite possible that someone could be a total nut and still make a useful discovery. There probably are examples of such. Its just that its much more likely that someone who is a total nut does not make a useful discovery. The evidence will tell---I'm just laying out the odds. Of course, the method of "knowing" is not the only thing that makes me skeptical. Other folks have hoed this very same row before them (e.g. Joe Champion) and not come up with any such repeatable and robust experiments. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 17:56:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA17333; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:53:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:53:51 -0700 Date: 17 Jun 97 20:52:43 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: News release from R. Bass Message-ID: <970618005242_100433.1541_BHG60-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"oRp8H3.0.lE4.U6pfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8373 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry, > Its just that its much more likely that someone who is a total nut > does not make a useful discovery. Um ... so, somebody who believes that he has contacts with the Almighty has to be a total nut? Aren't we being a touch 'fashionable'? Perhaps a trifle time- or culture-bound, a little too sure of ourselves? It's a modernist fallacy to believe that all our ancestors (who accepted such things readily) were terrible fools. What I would accept - and something which we habitually make very plain to people of this persuasion - is that one's beliefs or lack of beliefs has no relevance, and has no place in, the presentation of one's findings. However, unlike Maddox, we do not assert that religion is the enemy of science. If you want true religious fanaticism, one need look no further than our late and unlamented Editor of Nature. > The evidence will tell---I'm just laying out the odds. I'd agree, except that in this case the evidence is way ahead of any other we've seen. > Of course, the method of "knowing" is not the only thing that > makes me skeptical. Other folks have hoed this very same row > before them (e.g. Joe Champion) and not come up with any such > repeatable and robust experiments. Ah, but so have such people as Martin Fleischmann, FRS. And his experiments may be difficult, but they are as reproducible as many of his more 'conventional' results - some of which, as Frankie points out, took his fellow electrochemists five years or more to replicate. In the case of CF, many of the said colleagues were able to reproduce his calorimetry within months. And it's no good people dismissing calorimetry as being an anomaly with which they are comfortable, or saying that it isn't as good as mechanical work. That's not science. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 18:27:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA01340; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:20:30 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Greg Watson cc: freenrg-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: S-report In-Reply-To: <33A71C57.10C1 microtronics.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Expaq1.0.nK.jZpfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8374 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Vo., My SMOT modification: Steel packing strap for flux guide on outside. 3/16 X 7/8 X 1 inch Nd Fe B magnets, fvie on each rail "V" aluminum rail Stable lift of 18 mm in length of 120 mm with a] 1/2 " ball, less than 1/2oz b] 7/8 ... about 1 1/4 oz c] 1 1/4 ... slightly more than 5 oz a] zips right along, crashes into screwhead it can't clear, leaps in air, crashes down to track.... exits with "great vigah" .. to use the words of the late Jack Kennedy. b] clears screwhead due to larger ball diameter riding higher on track .... velocity slower .... exits c] same as [b] ... but slower yet ... but does exit. Set up needs no adjustment ....works with all ball sizes. Not optimized ..... made of tape and wood. SEE GREG ... I reported! JHS From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 18:36:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA23826; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:34:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:34:47 -0700 Date: 17 Jun 97 21:32:18 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Cincinnati Group didn't do experiment Message-ID: <970618013218_72240.1256_EHB117-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"pS-Bd.0.Bq5.sipfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8375 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex Barry Merriman writes: I'm not saying the Cincinnati group is a hoax. Personally, I have a hard time swallowing results from folks who get direct divine inspiration, so I don't have any great expectations for them. Some of the greatest scientists in history have been inspired by religion. I'll grant it is unfashionable to admit it these days, but I am sure many still are. Others worked to benefit humanity. Others were inspired by money, or curiosity. Many have been motivated by war, patriotism, and fear of the enemy. Since history shows that all of these motivations work well, why should it matter which ones inspire the Cincinnati group? In any case, this is a moot point. The Cincinnati people did not do the experiment. They are not qualified to do a definitive test of this nature. That is why they hired a top notch company that specializes in chemical and nuclear isotope measurements. The company designed the experiment, performed it, and documented it in a professional-looking report. I cannot honestly judge, but it looks professional to me. They triple checked everything. They used multiple methods of analysis including a physical inventory of the material, spectrometry, and a Geiger counter. So I think there is little likelihood of a mistake, and no likelihood of fraud. The company (the name escapes me) would not risk destroying its reputation by issuing false data, especially about such a controversial result. I think we can dismiss the hoax hypothesis. I reserve judgment about this experiment, until we see many independent replications, or many failed attempts to replicate. (The same goes for the SMOT machine, by the way. I will not make up my mind until we get more data, and if we never get data, I shall never make up my mind. I can live with uncertainty.) Chris Tinsley, with understated Brit reticence, responded to Barry by saying, "Er ... as for unrestrained and misleading press releases ... ah, no, I can't." Chris can't but I can. Nothing Bob Bass said approaches the levels of the unrestrained, misleading and irresponsible press releases issued over the last forty years by the DoE hot fusion program. We are not even in the same league. Furthermore, if the Cincinnati experiment is replicated then I do not see how Barry (or anyone else) can deny that Bob is correct: the "Most Sacrosanct Principles of Physics" have been overturned. How else would you describe such a result, Barry? Frankly, I would not be surprised to see this experiment is replicated successfully. Reifenschweiler reduced radioactivity in a convincing experiment, and I think the CETI results are fairly solid, so there is growing evidence that this can happen. Other nuclear effects like helium and tritium generation have been seen many times. There can be no rational, scientific doubt that nuclear reactions can occur in metal lattices -- although Barry will not admit it. Furthermore, the earlier Cincinnati experiment was robust. Chris was able to replicate it in a week. It did what they said it would do. Whether it produced excess energy or not we were never able to determine. It might be a bizarre chemical effect. But there was a dramatic and unmistakable difference between the control experiments and the hot runs. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 18:44:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA27114; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:43:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:43:03 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:07:16 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Hiatus Resent-Message-ID: <"DNqND3.0.Qd6.aqpfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8376 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John - > Well, I suppose I shouldn't clog this list with my > personal business, but I have to go on honeymoon > for two weeks. So I hope all the SMOT stuff gets > straightend out by the time I get back. We'll try to get the SMOTs working by your return. Have fun! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 18:44:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA27334; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:43:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:43:18 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Thermomagnetic-Thermoelectric & Magnetocaloric Effects. Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:51:19 +0000 Message-ID: <19970617215117.AAA16962 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"q4ThM3.0.gg6.pqpfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8377 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:43 PM 6/17/97 +0000, Rick wrote: >Frederick - > > > "Magnetcaloric effect (thermodynamics) The > > reversible change of temperature accompanying > > the change of magnetization of a ferromagnetic > > material." > >That's it. Magnetocaloric it is then. But I still want to know: how does >this effect produce energy? Is it really the source of a SMOT's energy >gain, or is it just a pathway for energy sourced elsewhere? Imbalance, or the imperfection of symmetry of real world things. If we were perfectly symmetrical we would probably all standing around like totem poles. :-) If the temperature variations in the SMOT setup are in your favor the millijoules of energy required to keep it going will initially come from the PM which drops in temperature while magnetizing the ball. The surrounding air should tend to replenish this energy. Then, if chance is in your favor the magnetocaloric effects and temperature differences (less than 0.5 K)in the track etc., will keep it going or just say no. > >Using the magnetocaloric conversion of ambient heat as a source makes it >look like the machines are running the 2nd law in reverse. But then so does >any engine when you fail to recognize the real source of the energy, and >are simply observing the energy at the point in the system where it makes >its presence terribly obvious. As a fringe science enthusiast I'm not sane >enough to be completely beyond throwing out 2nd Therm on a whim, but this >does have me temporarily concluding that the SMOT may not be a machine that >runs on ambient heat contained in the environment and mass of its >components. Therefore, the magnetocaloric effects are probably just gating >energy in from elsewhere. Don't "throw the baby out with the bathwater", unless you're really convinced that it's a Troll. :-) > >Any idea where elsewhere is? Anyone? Over by Snover, I think. Regards, Frederick >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 19:37:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA06700; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:35:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:35:33 -0700 Date: 17 Jun 97 22:34:10 EDT From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: News release from R. Bass Message-ID: <970618023410_76570.2270_FHU15-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"CV88F3.0.Xe1.qbqfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8378 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Shame on Barry frop writing this! -"Personally, I have a hard time swallowing results from folks who get direct divine inspiration, so I don't have any great expectations for them." Didn't Isaac Newton, as an example, claim divine inspiration in many things scientific? And wasn't he quite mystical and mysterious in his study of alchemy? And wan't good old Al Einstein forever talking about wanting to know the "mind of God"? There have been many, many scientists -- excellent ones -- who were inspired by what they called God. There still are. In fact, those who do NOT get inspired by God (such as I presume a large segment of scientific materialists in SCICOP) -- are among the world's most obtuse scientists. They are utterly biased against virtually any new physical anomaly that departs too far from their back yard -- especially anomalies involving consicoulsness, such have been observed at Princeton's PEAR group. They know nothing of the history of science. I'll take those divinely inspired folks in Ohio any day over the "know-it-all" money-grubbing crooks such as exist, for example, at the MIT Plasma Fusion Center. These people in Ohio understand science. The science bigots at MIT from President Vest on down, do not. Speaking of MIT: I'm glad that that major donor dropped $200 million recently into a new start-up engineering school in the Boston area -- it'll give MIT a run for its money. Thinking of melting down this Brass Rat of mine (MIT ring) into something useful -- maybe use it in a transmutation experiment! Or, make a mock-SMOT out of it! Gene Mallove From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 20:02:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA14411; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:55:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:55:16 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33A74DCF.331C math.ucla.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:54:07 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: News release from R. Bass References: <970618023410_76570.2270_FHU15-2 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XTot9.0.5X3.Guqfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8379 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Eugene F. Mallove wrote: > > Shame on Barry for writing this! > > -"Personally, > I have a hard time swallowing results from folks who get > direct divine inspiration, so I don't have any great expectations > for them." > > Didn't Isaac Newton claim divine inspiration There are degrees of "divine inspiration". Some folks find their motivation from serving god. Other folks credit god for their creative insights. No problemo---cultural conventions. But, there are other folks who claim to have direct "communication" with god. I.e., they hear god's internal voice giving them detailed instructions. These people have a mental illnes. Such an illness may not impede their functioning in society, and could even correlate with an advantage (to wit: manic-depressives). Consult a book on psychiatric illnesses for detailed information on correlations between mental illness and extreme religiosity. It is a well known and readily observed phenomena (visit any psyche ward). I'm not sure which camp the Cincinnati group fall into. If it is the latter, which I have been led to believe, then I doubt they could have come across a viable process, simply because the stuff "god" tells these direct communicees is typically BS. Still, the experiment will tell the tale. As Jed says, it was done by a third party and that is good. I'm willing to wait and see the outcome. But I've also dealt with enough cranks to know that when they cite god as a personal reference, its a bad sign. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 20:40:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA21878; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:38:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:38:09 -0700 Message-ID: <33A75729.9BB72303 microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:04:01 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Newman , List Server Vortex Subject: SMOT Mk II Beta (Rollaway!!!!!) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------EB4CB48132DB1B92E7E6B36A" Resent-Message-ID: <"mEKdS3.0.cL5.VWrfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8380 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------EB4CB48132DB1B92E7E6B36A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Attached is the SMOT Mk II Beta 1. Sounds like software. Need to add all the fancy bits, but there is enough there for some of you to get your teeth into it. I just achieved a good solid rollaway with a single ramp. Followed my own suggestion and reduced lift height to reduce dropaway and increase PE rollaway. It worked! I am updating my site now. Have taken a few pics. Will get a quick develop and scan. Should be up by the weekend. Good duplication. Remember to report your results! -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ --------------EB4CB48132DB1B92E7E6B36A Content-Type: image/gif; name="smot2b1plan.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="smot2b1plan.gif" R0lGODlh9AGKAvcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBPz8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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/wToG881UIIW1KAHRWhCFbpQc9mNoQ+FaEQlOlGKVrSiAcVoRjW6UY521KMfBWlIRTpSkpbU pCdFaUpVulKWttSlL4VpTGU6UzwFBAA7 --------------EB4CB48132DB1B92E7E6B36A-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 21:27:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA00684; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:26:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:26:00 -0700 Date: 18 Jun 97 00:24:08 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Hearing voices not unusual Message-ID: <970618042407_72240.1256_EHB58-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"jXRCC1.0.cA.NDsfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8381 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex This is off topic, but Barry Merriman does not understand some critical aspects of mental health and anthropology. This is way out of line: But, there are other folks who claim to have direct "communication" with god. I.e., they hear god's internal voice giving them detailed instructions. These people have a mental illness. Pure bosh! Dangerous bosh, too. This kind of nonsense caused heartbreak and trouble here in Georgia until recently. Many older rural people in the deep South, particularly black people, routinely hear angels talking to them. This is normal and healthy. I have known a few like that myself, and their mental health was miles above the norm. Unfortunately, some idiotic social workers took this to be a sign of mental illness and in some cases tried to treat these people. Incredible! The Atlanta Journal ran a story about this kind of cultural misunderstanding in rural health care. I cannot judge whether angels really do talk to these people, but I do know the following: 1. The people think they do; 2. The people are 100% sane; 3. The angels often give excellent advice. Many scientists, writers, artists and other creative people say they are guided by "inner voices of inspiration" which they take to be subconscious ideas originating in their own minds. I presume the old people in Georgia experience the same sensation but they ascribe the voices to other, external causes. Consult a book on psychiatric illnesses for detailed information on correlations between mental illness and extreme religiosity. It is a well known and readily observed phenomena (visit any psyche ward). I have read lots of professional books on psychiatric illness, including one my mother wrote, and I have visited wards and halfway houses. I have never heard of anything like that! That's a shocking conclusion. What kind of correlation? Based on how big a data set: how many patients, how big a control group? I suppose it might be true of middle class white Americans. Some author might think so, anyway. But it does not even begin to apply to other cultures and nations. There are plenty of other cultures in the U.S., even in Ohio. Now, let us drop the subject. I will, anyway. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 22:05:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA02207; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:59:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:59:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970618045834.006651a0 sparc1> X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:58:34 +0900 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Elliot Kennel Subject: Re: Pd Sims Resent-Message-ID: <"IYwW-.0.MY.1jsfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8382 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed wrote: >>Where did the sample originate? Who worked with it? Tanaka Metals; us. >>How high was loading? How was loading measured? 0.86, R/Ro >>Was excess heat or any other sign of a CF reaction observed during loading? Were helium-4 or tritium detected; did the sample become radioactive?<< No, no, no, no. >>If you saw no CF reaction there is no reason to expect isotopic shifts.<< You've pointed out a very good reason to be skeptical about the tie-in between apparent isotope shifts and apparent excess heat. Isotope shifts are reported by others even for non-excess heat experiments, not to mention Karabut's claim of having seen anomalous isotopes for glow discharges in inert gas(!). >>Have you looked at Mizuno's samples of Pd? If you are trying to confirm his results, it seems to me this would be the logical thing to do.<< I'm not challenging the competence of Mizuno's results (i.e., I seriously doubt that Mizuno's SIMS was botched via improper experimental procedure); what we are seeking is to understand what the results mean. Moreover, the fact that a different lab with a different sample observed the same phenomenon suggests that the effect is generic rather than an isolated case. >>Have you looked at Ohmori's Au samples? He has a large number of them.<< No, we haven't. Again, I do not distrust the competence of their SIMS measurements, so there is no reason to spend the money (about $5K per throw for high res). For the moment I am willing to assume that if a different lab repeats the measurement they will see the same thing. But I'm not ready to make the jump from SIMS anomalies to asserting that nuclear reactions are the sole possible explanation. >>As I have pointed out before, Mizuno and Ohmori are 20 minutes away from you.<< As I have mentioned before, Mizuno, Lipson and I are collaborating on two neutron detection experiments. I'm curious why you seem to have the mistaken impression that we don't visit each other or get along. Best regards, Elliot Kennel Sapporo Japan From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 22:39:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA09183; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A7832D.5B95 earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:41:49 -0700 From: Rich Murray Reply-To: rmforall earthlink.net Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-L eskimo.com, ceti@onramp.net, wireless@rmii.com, blue pilot.msu.edu, jonesse@astro.byu.edu, drom@vxcern.cern.ch, zettsjs ml.wpafb.af.mil, shellied@sage.dri.edu, rmills blacklightpower.com, wrgood@earthlink.net, davidk@suba.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: CETI company info] Content-Type: message/news Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"0_I8q3.0.PF2.SGtfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8383 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Path: nntp.earthlink.net!mr.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!jump.net!grunt.dejanews.com!not-for-mail Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:43:01 -0600 From: WWood21511 aol.com Subject: Re: CETI company info Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion Message-ID: <866499784.3216 dejanews.com> Organization: Deja News Usenet Posting Service References: <33A10651.4A05 columnist.com> <33A59A5E.2734@nospam.ansto.gov.au> X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Jun 16 22:23:04 1997 GMT X-Originating-IP-Addr: 152.163.213.146 (ww-tj12.proxy.aol.com) X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/2.0 (Compatible; AOL-IWENG 3.0; Win16) X-Authenticated-Sender: WWood21511 aol.com I called CETI (Clean Energy Technology, Inc.) in Sarasota and talked to a very nice and informative young man, Christian Ismert, their business manager. CETI's units are in the prototype stage, and will not be ready for market for at least a couple of years, he tells me. CETI doesn't use the term "cold fusion," since Ismert said that applies only to deuterium-deuterium fusion. They refer to it as "low temperature reactions." The hot water heater demonstrated on television's "Good Morning, America" last week is least promising---results are 20% to 50% "over unity" reliably in the one kilowatt range---that is, more energy coming out than going in. Spikes of 1,000 to 10,000 over unity have been seen on test instruments, but can't be predicted or accounted for or reliably reproduced. Ismert said his company was flooded with phone calls, but the callers had to be put off. "So people shouldn't expect we will have something to produce electricity for their homes and replace their gas heaters. We're not that close yet." Okay. Not great, but anything producing "over unity" is significant. Their most promising technology is the radioactivity reduction application for uranium and thorium. A pilot facility is being set up at the Hanford, Washington, nuclear plant to see if this radioactivity reduction can be applied to nuclear waste. Well over $10 billion yearly is involved in dealing with nuclear powerplant fuels--making them and disposing of them. For some reason, suspected to be a proton interaction with the catalytic metal, such as palladium, the Patterson Cell and its successor prototypes stabilize the radioactive atoms. Instead of upsetting their little atomic bodies and coming apart in the form of gamma radiation and so on, the cell transmutes the excitable little atoms to more stable isotopes. "We're not the only ones working on this, but we seem to have come a lot farther than anyone else so far." Ismert said he loves working at CETI, and that Patterson "is a great old guy with lots of fascinating stories." Patterson was a student of Einstein's, worked on NASA stuff, and holds 150 patents---only a dozen or so related to "cold fusion". Until one of these new technologies approaches the market stage, nothing is going to happen (except the sudden and unexpected deaths of the inventors). While searching for info on the Internet, I noticed another set of inventors claim they are regularly producing one "transmuted" isotope of copper in such large amounts they can be physically picked up with tweezers after a cell run--not just something detected in minute amounts with sensitive instruments. I didn't know this, but copper naturally comes in two atomic forms always found mixed together, and the isotope ratio is just about set. To produce just one isotope without the other is clear evidence something unnatural is going on. Of course, to wade through the amount of e-posts "trashing" cold fusion as "pseudo-science" or just plain fraud takes hours. I read through 49 posts of a newsgroup with the title "The Cold Fusion Demonstration on ABC-TV". Every single one was either an emotional or intellectual argument over what was or was not the definition of "science"--and not one word about the TV show. -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 22:51:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA15419; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:50:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:50:34 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:50:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706180550.AAA16990 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Cincinatti RR Resent-Message-ID: <"yp7wl3.0.nm3.gStfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8384 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I would like to understand how it could be possible for Th to be converted to Cu. Two major concerns: reaction path: If you just start carving Cu-65 atoms out of Th-232, you can get 3 whole Cu-65 atoms but you have 3 protons and 34 neutrons left over! Are there any plausible reaction paths that could convert Th to Cu without a lot of other nuclei (or energetic radiation) also being formed? energetics: Assume that there is a multi-atom reaction that converts Th-232 to Cu-65 and conserves nucleons in the process. Each Th-232 atom would yield 3.57 Cu-65 atoms and 276 Mev of energy would necessarily be released. The claimed conversion of 0.1 grams of Th to Cu in 1 hour would therefore be accompanied by the release of 3.2 megawatts for the entire hour! Clearly, this energy release is not occurring in these RR experiments. Why not? Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 23:44:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA23965; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:40:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:40:14 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Cincinatti RR Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 06:39:54 +0000 Message-ID: <19970618063952.AAA23058 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"YOgrP2.0.Ms5.CBufp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8385 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 05:50 AM 6/18/97 +0000, Scott wrote: When I first saw the subject (half awake), Cincinnati RailRoad? >I would like to understand how it could be possible for Th to be converted >to Cu. > >Two major concerns: > >reaction path: If you just start carving Cu-65 atoms out of Th-232, you can >get 3 whole Cu-65 atoms but you have 3 protons and 34 neutrons left over! >Are there any plausible reaction paths that could convert Th to Cu without a >lot of other nuclei (or energetic radiation) also being formed? One, a mix of Cu, Ti, Fe, and others, plus neutrinos and ....? > >energetics: Assume that there is a multi-atom reaction that converts Th-232 >to Cu-65 and conserves nucleons in the process. Each Th-232 atom would >yield 3.57 Cu-65 atoms and 276 Mev of energy would necessarily be released. >The claimed conversion of 0.1 grams of Th to Cu in 1 hour would therefore be >accompanied by the release of 3.2 megawatts for the entire hour! Clearly, >this energy release is not occurring in these RR experiments. Why not? Given one neutrino/neutron involved in a single atom reaction (in lieu of shedding a neutron and having it decay to a proton, electron and a neutrino) the neutrinos could carry off the reaction energy without leaving the "ash" without any more than a trace of recoil energy. A 90 Mev neutrino,or more, is not out of the question, and since we are accustomed to having something like 3E14 Solar neutrinos/m^2, with energy up to 87 Mev going through our bodies every second of our lives this would not be a safety concern. :-) Regards, Frederick > > >Scott Little >EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 >512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) >little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 23:55:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA25680; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:52:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:52:39 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:51:19 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Hiatus Resent-Message-ID: <"eb5So.0.AH6.tMufp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8387 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 6:06 AM 6/17/97, John Logajan wrote: > Well, I suppose I shouldn't clog this list with my personal business, > but I have to go on honeymoon for two weeks. So I hope all the SMOT > stuff gets straightend out by the time I get back. See ya on the > other side. > > >-- > - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 612-699-9472 - Congratulations and best wishes! Horace From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 17 23:56:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA21814; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:51:16 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Full Moon Near! Resent-Message-ID: <"ZRBFw3.0.lK5.aNufp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8386 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 3:51 AM 6/17/97, Steve Ekwall wrote: [snip] >Horace, I just sent a list mail and 'mispelled' your name, hope you'll [snip] >-=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 No problem. No need to apologize either. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 00:52:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA28019; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:50:49 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 03:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970618034910_-1731271105 emout09.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l eskimo.com cc: gwatson microtronics.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SMOT II - QField simulation Resent-Message-ID: <"CxWoM1.0.Qr6.HDvfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8388 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Thanks to Greg for the new release of the SMOT mark II, You will find the QField simulation about this new SMOT design at : http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/sm2qfld.htm The magnets specs : Ferrite barrium ( anisotrop ) : 40 x 10 mm relative permability : 1.1 coercitive force magnitude : 165 kA/m Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 00:57:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA28487; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:53:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Cincinnati RR & Neutron-Proton Ratio Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 07:52:15 +0000 Message-ID: <19970618075213.AAA9946 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"uI2Ge.0.1z6.4Gvfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8389 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Vortex: Scott: As a follow-up thought, the stable light elements like to be as near as possible to a 1:1 neutron-proton ratio. As you get up to the supernova-built heavy elements, the ratio gets "neutron heavy". Since it is generally accepted that a neutron contains a neutrino and this RR phenomenon could release protons and electrons (hydrogen) and give the neutrinos the 200 plus Mev energy released during the "internal conversion" there will be conservation of nucleons with low residual heat reactions. The released hydrogen might very well be participating in,and accelerating the RR reactions and overlooked in the residual "ash" analysis. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 01:19:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA00788; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 01:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 01:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970618040418.00707a14 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (32) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 04:04:22 +0000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Pd Sims Cc: Elliot Kennel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ryGa93.0.EC.Ucvfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8390 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:58 PM 6/18/97 +0900, Elliot Kennel wrote: >Jed wrote: >>>How high was loading? How was loading measured? > >0.86, R/Ro ... >Best regards, >Elliot Kennel >Sapporo Japan > > Why is a loading ratio of 0.86 sufficient to declare anything of substance, given that the reactions appear to be quadratic, just beginning at about that level? Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 01:31:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA01619; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 01:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 01:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970618082150.00668f98 sparc1> X-Sender: kennel sparc1 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:21:50 +0900 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Elliot Kennel Subject: Re: Pd Sims Resent-Message-ID: <"t02Ud2.0.DP.8nvfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8391 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Peter Gluck wrote: >>Can you please tell us if these shifts are uniformly distributed on the surface?<< No, I don't know. SIMS measurements are performed over a very small area and through a depth of about a micron. But I do know that the apparent anomalies are more pronounced at the surface and less prominent deeper down. Best regards, Elliot Kennel Sapporo Japan From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 03:30:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA19296; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 03:29:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 03:29:47 -0700 Date: 18 Jun 97 06:28:27 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: News release from R. Bass Message-ID: <970618102827_100433.1541_BHG107-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"6kAkD2.0.Mj4.RYxfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8392 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry, > But, there are other folks who claim to have direct > "communication" with god. I.e., they hear god's internal voice > giving them detailed instructions. These people have a mental > illnes. So - you are now also qualified to make remote medical diagnoses? Or do you just believe whatever is the latest cant from those who do claim such qualifications? Let's look at some of the beliefs of these strange people. They say or did say that fear of snakes was fear of penises and that fear of spiders was fear of pubic hair. Migraine was a neurotic retreat from reality - in my lifetime. Autism in children was the result of rejection by the mother; not overt, but "the child could sense it." Now consider that NONE of the above had the slightest basis in evidence. And that some of them will have done immense damage to people - think only of that last one and its effects on the poor mothers. These people are practising stupidity to the level of pure evil, in the most exact sense of the word, and I really don't think you should pay much attention to what they say. I've met the Cincinnati Group, and they seem perfectly sane to me. They did not talk religion, they did experiments. They certainly didn't talk the kind of insane and harmful BS I've heard from headshrinkers. I think that their religious ideas have been seized on and made too much of. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 03:33:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA09539; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 03:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 03:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: 18 Jun 97 06:28:31 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: SMOT Mk II Beta (Rollaway!!!!!) Message-ID: <970618102830_100433.1541_BHG107-3 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"Qd0M1.0.wK2.jZxfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8394 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg, Ah. Now there is a SMOT design I can take pretty seriously. As I posted here recently, it's easier to get a rollaway with less lift. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 03:33:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA09525; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 03:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 03:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: 18 Jun 97 06:28:29 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Cincinatti RR Message-ID: <970618102829_100433.1541_BHG107-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"lyXQ02.0.lK2.iZxfp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8393 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott, > Each Th-232 atom would yield 3.57 Cu-65 atoms and 276 Mev of > energy would necessarily be released. The claimed conversion of > 0.1 grams of Th to Cu in 1 hour would therefore be accompanied by > the release of 3.2 megawatts for the entire hour! Clearly, this > energy release is not occurring in these RR experiments. Why not? Well, you've just reposted my comments of yesterday. Now, if these reports are legit (and the Cincinnati ones look clearer and were done independently, so they at least look hopeful) then this is not nuclear physics as we understand it. Therefore it would be something new, right? So, why demand explanations within present physics? After all, there just *might* be new things coming along in science. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 04:30:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA24520; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 04:29:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 04:29:25 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC7BE3.27F08CC0 ppp170.enterprise.net> From: Mike Butcher To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Hearing voices not unusual Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:28:38 +0100 Encoding: 29 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"VoBgV.0.2_5.KQyfp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8395 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: "Religion" and "God" to condense them is the root of our belief system which we accept by faith (something that we can not prove but by which we measure everything else by) if you like a Yard Stick. Barry's god and many like him is probably scientific method (forgive me if I am incorrect). It is no less "religious" than say the Cincinnati group's position just different. i.e. science involves measuring "facts" by a particular scientific method and rejecting evidence that does not meet this standard. This selection process is ultimately subjective with a group of scientific priests deciding what is or is not a valid method of measuring the evidence. If we say one religious position is false we measure it by comparing it with own religious presuppositions. We cannot escape this reality. What we are seeing in the battle with cold fusion and transmutation is the death of the old priesthood. Their religion and faith has been challenged and is in the process of being shown to be flawed, in it's place a new priesthood will emerge which will then measure everything new by the new "standard". So I find this whole "trash the religion" thing amusing much like the absurdity of seeing a person burning a bridge then trying to walk across it to get to where he wants to go. Mike Butcher From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 08:28:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA01527; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:25:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:25:43 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:55:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706181355.IAA17453 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: our 2nd Ragland run Resent-Message-ID: <"A8bHG3.0.nN.st_fp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8400 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: We started our 2nd Ragland triode experiment yesterday at 1500 hours. This run uses 0.5 molar LiOH in D2O (a little more concentrated that the last run's 0.38 molar electrolyte) and a piece of Pd that gave Ragland very positive results! We made minor changes to our cell design to provide easier and better clamping of the Pt lead wires to the Pt anode screens. Wetted materials are still limited to: Pyrex glass, Pt, Pd, Kynar (PVDF), and TFE. We have modified our new water-flow calorimeter to provide active cooling AND heating for the inlet water (previously we only had cooling) so that any desired inlet temperature from about 15C to maybe 50C can be maintained. The cell is well coupled to the water so this allows us to adjust its temperature. If this experiment does not show excess heat within a few days, we will try heating the cell significantly to stimulate the reaction. Also we are switching the anode current every 8 seconds in this run, down from the 16 second cycle used in the first run. Stay tuned to Vortex for periodic updates. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 08:32:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA01788; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:26:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:26:39 -0700 From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:38:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970618093820_-1865199212 emout04.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: barrier Resent-Message-ID: <"jvpnk2.0.aR.hu_fp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8401 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The "insuperable" coulomb barrier is in people's heads, not in nature; it is evident in simple systems and perhaps malleable in complex systems. We are definitely not in Kansas. MIke Carrell ............................ Very good comment Mike, If you have a force with a longer range of interaction than the coulombic the barrier is GONE. That's why my "range of force interaction" and Marshall's "downshifting of the frequencies" concepts are so darn important. Frank Znidarsic From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 08:36:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA03117; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:28:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:28:35 -0700 Date: 18 Jun 97 11:10:29 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Cincinatti RR Message-ID: <970618151029_76016.2701_JHC58-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"2KK7J3.0.2l.Nw_fp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8402 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott Little said: >> If you just start carving Cu-65 atoms out of Th-232, you can get 3 whole Cu-65 atoms but you have 3 protons and 34 neutrons left over!<< Has anyone looked at quark recombination. I mean, if you broke everything down into it's constituent quarks and then recombined, can you get the mass/energy to balance? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 08:44:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA08673 for billb@eskimo.com; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:43:08 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:43:08 -0700 X-Envelope-From: jurek localaccess.com Wed Jun 18 08:30:36 1997 Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA04027 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:30:30 -0700 Received: from orion.Localaccess.com (Orion.localaccess.com [206.64.48.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA01210 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.Localaccess.com by orion.Localaccess.com (NTMail 3.02.11) with ESMTP id ua765278 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 07:00:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970618070054.00b543f0 mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: jurek mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Old-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 07:00:55 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: jurek Subject: Re: Hearing voices not unusual Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: vortex-l Status: RO X-Status: For any of you out there that want to have an experience hearing voices I strongly recommend not sleeping for 72hours. The effect is 90% guaranteed, and some of you may experience different form of hallucinations. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 10:37:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA22917; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:29:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:29:27 -0700 From: Puthoff aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:29:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970618122657_1925074429 emout13.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Frank's Tiny Comets Resent-Message-ID: <"c_90G1.0.Ia5.hh1gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8405 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 6/13/97 7:09:18 AM, vortex-l eskimo.com wrote: <> They disintegrate at altitudes well above orbits of space shuttle and Mir space station, according to 29 May Wash. Post article. Hal Puthoff From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 10:40:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA09839 for billb@eskimo.com; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:40:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: jurek localaccess.com Wed Jun 18 10:33:59 1997 Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA08650 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.Localaccess.com (Orion.localaccess.com [206.64.48.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA05988 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:36:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.Localaccess.com by orion.Localaccess.com (NTMail 3.02.11) with ESMTP id oa765376 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:35:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970618083558.00b5ec04 mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: jurek mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Old-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:35:59 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: jurek Subject: Re: Hearing voices not unusual Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: vortex-l Status: RO X-Status: For any of you out there that want to have an experience hearing voices I strongly recommend not sleeping for 72hours. The effect is 90% guaranteed, and some of you may experience different forms of hallucinations. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 10:42:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA23342; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:30:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:30:04 -0700 From: Schaffer gav.gat.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:32:53 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: SMOTs and lift-dropaway=rollaway testing Resent-Message-ID: <"t_eXA1.0.Vh5.Ji1gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8406 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There has been a great deal of discussion about 'rollaway' in SMOT testing. However, I have so far not read a definition of 'rollaway'. Is it 'rollaway' when: 1) the ball rolls beyond of the sharp magnetic barrier (that exists near the end of the magnet array) but is subsequently trapped in the return flux well a few cm away along the level exit track; or 2) the ball continues to roll out of the return flux well along the level exit track and stops some good distance beyond the end of the magnets, beyond the influence of their return flux, say 10 cm or more. In both cases, I presume that the exit track is level and no lower than the entrance track. Case 1 rollaway might be tricky to achieve, but it is in no way prohibited by ordinary magnetics and conservation of energy. Case 2 rollaway requires something extra. Michael J. Schaffer General Atomics, PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA Tel: 619-455-2841 Fax: 619-455-4156 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 10:53:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA09459; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33A6F9B9.47D187F9 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 00:55:21 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Netscape bug X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zrYu63.0.TG2.2o1gp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8408 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, These are two subjects slightly out of context. But they are some related to SMOT research. Network down in Turkey for 20 hours due electric power company applying cuts by the shortage of power. It penalticise citizens after close downing thermo-electric(coal) plants by the court enforcement by the argument of very heavy pollution they did in the national park region. (Long sentence, I hope you able understand it despite my poor english and such a incredible things we are practicing here) So far, I catch a Netscape all versions bug causing error on receiving mails with POP3. The problem caused by the periodic mail checker. If it check the mail while retrieving mail cause error. The remedy is using long periods enough to allow time for retrieving all mail queued in server. I don't know all the mail servers behave in the same fashion to cause the error. Ok, I got the SMOT Mk II Beta 1, Thank you Greg. Still I trying to scale up the design according my big magnet size. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 12:17:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA08326; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:14:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:14:45 -0700 From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:12:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970618150642_224073624 emout05.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com, 76570.2270@compuserve.com, fstenger@interlaced.net, JEFFJ ep.state.az.us, Lentin@imaginet.fr, reed@zenergy.com Subject: USA Today17/ June reports giant UFO flies over Pheonix Az USA Resent-Message-ID: <"OsY972.0.y02.SE3gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8409 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The full page story states that it was one mile long, flew slowly over the city at 30 miles per hour, hovered over the city for 160 minutes, jet interceptors were dispached, was seen by pilots and air traffic controllers, thousands saw it, videos were taken by may separate observers. Reed Huish and Rich Murry...You live there did you see it? What do you think? I know this off topic but I never read a story like this before. Frank Znidarsic From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 12:33:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA20778; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:28:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:28:09 -0700 Date: 18 Jun 97 15:13:28 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Pd Sims, JR vrs EK Message-ID: <970618191327_72240.1256_EHB86-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"CecaT1.0.e35.0R3gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8411 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex Here are comments of Jed (JR) and Elliot Kennel (EK). JR: Where did the sample originate? Who worked with it? EK: Tanaka Metals; us. Hmmm . . . Well, perhaps you should follow Martin Fleischmann's suggestion and try some of the Johnson-Matthey special 'Type A' palladium. I presume you did the tests described by Storms to measure excess volume and so on. I hope you publish details describing the results. JR: How high was loading? How was loading measured? EK: 0.86, R/Ro What a shame. That is a marginal result, as Mitchell Swartz has already pointed out. I am surprised you saw slight transmutations but no sign of excess heat, tritium or helium. Perhaps the heat was below the threshold for your instruments? Roughly speaking, what was the smallest level of heat you can measure, in absolute (watts) and percent terms? JR: If you saw no CF reaction there is no reason to expect isotopic shifts. EK: You've pointed out a very good reason to be skeptical about the tie-in between apparent isotope shifts and apparent excess heat. Either that, or as I say the heat was too small to measure. There are many reports of tritium generation without measurable heat. I gather your transmutations were small and difficult to detect. Not like the massive changes Bockris saw, where at some levels below the surface most of the metal was transmutated. EK: Isotope shifts are reported by others even for non-excess heat experiments, not to mention Karabut's claim of having seen anomalous isotopes for glow discharges in inert gas(!). Yes, so I've heard. I do not put much stock in Karabut, because as far as I know the work has not been replicated, despite concerted efforts to do so. I believe Karabut himself cannot do it. Perhaps I am confused . . . JR: Have you looked at Mizuno's samples of Pd? If you are trying to confirm his results, it seems to me this would be the logical thing to do. EK: I'm not challenging the competence of Mizuno's results (i.e., I seriously doubt that Mizuno's SIMS was botched via improper experimental procedure) what we are seeking is to understand what the results mean. I do not understand this response. If you do not doubt his results, and you want to know what those results signify, then it seems to me you should drop everything and investigate his palladium. I presume that your instruments and this $5,000 investigation will reveal new information about the sample. It would confirm once and all the existence of anomalous transmutations. That is supposed to be the mandate of the NHE. JR: Have you looked at Ohmori's Au samples? He has a large number of them. EK: No, we haven't. Again, I do not distrust the competence of their SIMS measurements, so there is no reason to spend the money (about $5K per throw for high res). I am sure Ohmori cannot afford a $5,000 high resolution investigation! This is a splendid opportunity for you to confirm his work and find out more about the sample than he can. I do not understand why you leave this opportunity lying on the table while you chase after non-replicated peculiar Russian experiments. You will get no help from the Russians, who are thousands of miles away, whereas Ohmori is practically next door. Because you trust the SIMS measurements, that is the best reason for you to take a closer look for yourself. If you did not trust them you would not want to waste time trying to confirm them. For the moment I am willing to assume that if a different lab repeats the measurement they will see the same thing. Surely you can see more with these high-res instruments! Not "the same thing" -- much more. Why else would you people spend $5,000 when Mizuno and Ohmori spend only $50 to $200? There must be many good reasons your analyses cost so much more. You said you can better distinguish between molecules and atoms with close atomic weights. I presume the peaks stand out more clearly. (That's what I have seen in contrasting low and hi res spectra.) And, since the exam costs so much, it seems to me you want to examine the best sample with the most dramatic transmutations in it, rather than Pd that underwent an invisible CF reaction at ~86% loading. But I'm not ready to make the jump from SIMS anomalies to asserting that nuclear reactions are the sole possible explanation. What is a "SIMS anomaly"? Is that an artifact of the SIMS machine? Is it transmutation induced by the SIMS machine? If you suspect either of these conditions, that is an excellent reason for you do a detailed investigation of Mizuno's sample. You can use various other instruments besides SIMS. You can measure the extent of the transmutations. Surely there must be limit to what SIMS induced transmutations could do. They can't change half the metal into something else, can they? They cannot place 100 times more copper in a sample than there was in the entire cell including all contamination? If SIMS could do that, surely someone would have noticed before now! Perhaps "SIMS anomalies" can explain the tiny changes you saw in your cathode, but nobody will argue they can produce the massive changes seen in other cathodes. JR: As I have pointed out before, Mizuno and Ohmori are 20 minutes away from you. EK: As I have mentioned before, Mizuno, Lipson and I are collaborating on two neutron detection experiments. I'm curious why you seem to have the mistaken impression that we don't visit each other or get along. Why on earth are you looking for neutrons?!? CF reactions hardly ever produce them. I get that impression from two sources: 1. Talking to other researchers; 2. Your behavior, especially your choice of experiments. People say the NHE lab (not you personally) is uncooperative, unwilling to listen to the advice of experts, and devoted to the wrong tasks. Here you are trying to replicate an obscure and terribly difficult Russian experiment -- with no help from the Russians -- while you ignore Ohmori's reportedly easy and often repeated experiment in your own back yard. To outsiders, this looks like stubborn, self-destructive, uncooperative behavior. Perhaps the NHE managers have their reasons, but I cannot guess what they might be. Here you spend $5,000 to investigate palladium that you know can only have tiny transmutations at best, because it only loaded to 86% and it never produced measurable excess heat, while you ignore much more potent samples in your own backyard. Here you are looking for neutrons -- of all things! -- when the entire literature since 1989 proves that CF hardly ever produces them. You might as well look for neutrinos. Here you are working with bulk palladium, the most difficult choice of materials, in an experiment you have never succeeded in doing after more than 50 attempts! You cannot even compete with Ed Storms, who works by himself on a shoestring. He gets it to work about half the time. Since you cannot master the experiment, you shouldn't try. Do what you are capable of. If all you do is investigate other people's successful cathodes you could make a giant contribution to the field. According to the official, published NHE policies, the first purpose of the NHE lab is to *confirm the existence of the cold fusion effect*. That's your mandate, as I said. Well, you could accomplish that in a week with a sample of transmuted Pd from Mizuno. Confirm the transmutations, orchestrate a press conference, and you could put that proof on the front page of every major newspaper in Japan. (Learn a lesson from the hot fusion people. PR is the one thing they do right.) Or you could do it by having Ohmori show you how to perform his experiment in your lab. Who would argue that both Mizuno and the NHE has made a mistake identifying such massive transmutations? Who would argue that the copper came from contamination when the mass of it exceeds all contamination in the cell, and when it is only found below the surface? Okay, Morrison, Blue or Steve Jones would argue that, but I doubt any serious scientist would suggest such hocus-pocus. I do not understand your priorities. I do not understand why the NHE management decides to do unpromising, dead-end experiments: experiments with bulk palladium from the wrong supplier; experiments looking for neutrons! I don't get it, and neither does Fleischmann, Storms, Miles, Mizuno or the other leading researchers I have spoken with. It is almost as if the NHE deliberately avoids finding evidence for the CF effect. Some people suspect that is the case. I don't know what to think. As I said in my Open Letter, I hate to see so much talent and money wasted on dead-end research, when there are so many splendid opportunities at hand and so many ways you could contribute. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 12:40:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA27717; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: 18 Jun 97 15:23:43 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: RE: SMOTs and lift-dropaway=rollaway tes Message-ID: <970618192342_100433.1541_BHG78-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"HdlTL3.0._m6.xQ3gp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8410 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Mike, It's a "rollaway" if the ball rolls away from the magnets, on a level track above or equal to its starting height. > Case 1 rollaway might be tricky to achieve, but it is in no way > prohibited by ordinary magnetics and conservation of energy. Case > 2 rollaway requires something extra. I'm less sure about that. Assuming for simplicity that the initial and final heights are the same, the problem is that the initial and final magnetic PE is not actually quantified. The initial point *does* seem to be at a lower magnetic PE (deeper into the field), and there are the losses to account for. But such problems as the 'level' really being that can mean that the arrangement will not work when you turn the ramp through 180 degrees. Or there might be some subtle thing we are missing. To be sure, you *have* to link the start and finish to close the loop. I'm sufficiently impressed by Greg's latest design that I shall copy it, because it seems to be a logical extension of some pretty odd results I've seen already. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 12:46:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA00551; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:44:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:44:11 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:43:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Martin Sevior To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cincinatti RR (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QoGdz.0.N8.8g3gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8412 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Scott Little wrote: > > Fred S suggests that neutrinos could be carrying the energy away safely in > 90-200 MeV chunks. Is this plausible? > Actually that would still leave way too many neutrons. Much better would be to convert about half of the excess neutrons to protons and produce 13 neutrinos of about 13 MeV each. If this is actually what's happenning, this neutrino flux would be detectable in one of the solar neutrino exeriments. Remediating say 100 grams of U in 2 hours would produce about 3*10^20 neutrinos per second. The solar flux is 10^13 neutrinos per second, the size of the Super-kamiokande detector is about 20*20 meters square = 4*10^6 square centimeters. So the flux of neutrinos from the sun of 10^20 is comparable to the flux from a Patterson Cell. These would easily distinguished from Solar neutrinos in Super-K because of their higher energy (which makes them easier to detect) and their very different direction. (Super-K can also determine the direction of neutrinos.) If the Hanford tests pan out, this would be a very interesting experiment. To find out more about the fanatastic Super-Kamiokande solar neutrino experiment in Japan, see: http://www.phys.washington.edu/~superk Martin Sevior From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 13:08:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA11967; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:04:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:04:15 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:04:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Martin Sevior To: List Server Vortex Subject: Re: SMOT Mk II Beta (Rollaway!!!!!) In-Reply-To: <33A75729.9BB72303 microtronics.com.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"zKDmk.0.qw2.zy3gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8414 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > Hi All, > > Attached is the SMOT Mk II Beta 1. Sounds like software. Need to add > all the fancy bits, but there is enough there for some of you to get > your teeth into it. > > I just achieved a good solid rollaway with a single ramp. Followed my > own suggestion and reduced lift height to reduce dropaway and increase > PE rollaway. It worked! > OK, I'll have a go over the next few days. Thanks for the beta release! Martin Sevior From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 13:40:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA23934; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:22:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Cincinnati RR and Water Anomalies. Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:00:48 +0000 Message-ID: <19970618120046.AAA23919 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"oVzCR2.0.Fn5.7q_fp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8396 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jean-Pierre and Jacques: Get out your cameras! ChrisTinsley is in the process of changing the Laws of Physics and will be strolling on the Thames this Sunday> :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 13:40:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA16933; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:25:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:25:22 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:23:48 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, 76570.2270@compuserve.com, fstenger@interlaced.net, JEFFJ ep.state.az.us, Lentin@imaginet.fr, reed@zenergy.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: USA Today17/ June reports giant UFO flies over Pheonix Az USA Resent-Message-ID: <"Yrr001.0.U84.nG4gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8415 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 3:12 PM 6/18/97, FZNIDARSIC aol.com wrote: >The full page story states that it was one mile long, flew slowly over the >city at 30 miles per hour, hovered over the city for 160 minutes, jet >interceptors were dispached, was seen by pilots and air traffic controllers, >thousands saw it, videos were taken by may separate observers. > >Reed Huish and Rich Murry...You live there did you see it? > >What do you think? I know this off topic but I never read a story like this >before. > >Frank Znidarsic If it's for real it seems on topic to me. A craft 1 mi. long floating along at 30 mi/hr. sounds like fairly good evidence for the existence of some new energy technology - especially if it was silent. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 13:41:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA10010; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:30:28 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Cincinatti RR (fwd) Resent-Message-ID: <"bCElu1.0.IS2.sQ4gp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8416 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 12:43 PM 6/18/97, Martin Sevior wrote: >On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Scott Little wrote: >> >> Fred S suggests that neutrinos could be carrying the energy away safely in >> 90-200 MeV chunks. Is this plausible? >> > >Actually that would still leave way too many neutrons. Much better would >be to convert about half of the excess neutrons to protons and produce 13 >neutrinos of about 13 MeV each. If this is actually what's happenning, >this neutrino flux would be detectable in one of the solar neutrino >exeriments. > [snip] > >Martin Sevior If an instantaneous quantum waveform collapse mechanism exists that preferentially eliminates unstable products, then there likely will be *no* neutrons produced at all, due to the fact that neutrons themselves are highly unstable. This of course would be changed if impinging particles inducing the collapse contain sufficient energy to produce unstabel daughter productr via normal interation mechanisms. Much of this was discussed in Jan regarding my Bose Condensate Hypothesis of CF. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 14:12:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA16370; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:05:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:05:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:03:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Martin Sevior To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cincinatti RR (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"IbJ3Y.0.d_3.vr4gp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8417 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Horace Heffner wrote: > > > If an instantaneous quantum waveform collapse mechanism exists that > preferentially eliminates unstable products, then there likely will be *no* > neutrons produced at all, due to the fact that neutrons themselves are > highly unstable. This of course would be changed if impinging particles > inducing the collapse contain sufficient energy to produce unstabel > daughter productr via normal interation mechanisms. Much of this was > discussed in Jan regarding my Bose Condensate Hypothesis of CF. > What happens to the 34 neutrons left over after U238 breaks up into 3 Cu-65's? Martin Sevior From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 14:35:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA01037; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:29:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:29:35 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33A85326.46D3 math.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:29:10 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cincinatti RR References: <199706180550.AAA16990 natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rNWgp1.0.3G.-C5gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8418 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > I would like to understand how it could be possible for > Th to be converted to Cu. > > major concerns: > > reaction path: If you just start carving Cu-65 atoms out of > Th-232, you can get 3 whole Cu-65 atoms but you have 3 protons > and 34 neutrons left over! Precisely. The "press release" said: *** in less than an hour, one-tenth gram of radioactive thorium has been transmuted into nine-hundredths gram of titanium plus one-hundredth gram of copper. *** Lets see: we start with Th (Z = 90, N = 142), and we transmute---precisely,in terms of mass---into 90% copper (Z = 29, N = 34 or 36), and 10% Ti (Z = 22, N = 24--28). Start: Th: (0.1 gm)/(232 gm) mol x 90 protons = 0.039 mol p x 142 neutron= 0.059 mol n (note we don't know the atomic weight of the finished Cu and Ti, since it is supposedly abnormal, so we must treat the range of possible atomic weights get get corresponding ranges of neutron and proton count; note the high proton count estimates go with the low neutron count estimates,to conserve total mass) Finish: Cu: (0.09 gm)/(63 +0&2 gm) mol x 29 p = 0.040 upto 0.041 mol p x 34&36 n = 0.050 downto 0.049 mol n Ti: (0.01 gm)/(46 +0--4gm) mol x 22 p = 0.0044 upto 0.0048 mol p x 24--28 = 0.0056 downto 0.0052 So, lets see whats left over: Starting: 0.039 mol p 0.059 mol n (n + p = 0.098 mol---close enough t0 0.1 gm we started with) Finish: range of (add above estimates for Cu, Ti) (low proton est.) to (hi proton est.) 0.045 mol p 0.046 mol p 0.055 mol n 0.053 mol p (n+p = 0.10 mol--ok, n+p = 0.099 mol--ok) (because of rounding errors, these n+p final = n+p initial to within only 0.002 mol, so don't trust it beyond that level) So: Finish - Start = { gain: 0.006--0.007 (+/- 0.002) mol protons { lost: 0.004--0.006 (+/- 0.002) mol neutrons So, there is a slim margin by which neutrons lost could have turned into protons gained *directly*, via, e.g. beta decay. In this case the accompanying energy release from 0.006 moles of n -> p beta decay are around 10^10 Joules, rougly the energy of burning 10,000 kg of wood. Since this energy did not manifest itself, either a similar amount was absorbed by some other nuclear reaction, or the pathway from n -> p was not direct, i.e. it involved reactions with other nuclei in the system. Either way, we conclude that there would have had to be ~ 0.005 mol of *some other* nuclear reaction in the system, yet this was not reported in the press release. I would like to see the detailed data, but the numbers don't add up properly (i.e. there seem to be large amounts of reaction not yet accounted for). On the whole, it doesn't bolster my enthusiasm for the work. > Are there any plausible reaction paths that could convert Th to Cu without a > lot of other nuclei (or energetic radiation) also being formed? > > energetics: Assume that there is a multi-atom reaction that converts Th-232 > to Cu-65 and conserves nucleons in the process. Each Th-232 atom would > yield 3.57 Cu-65 atoms and 276 Mev of energy would necessarily be released. > The claimed conversion of 0.1 grams of Th to Cu in 1 hour would therefore be > accompanied by the release of 3.2 megawatts for the entire hour! Clearly, > this energy release is not occurring in these RR experiments. Why not? > > Scott Little > EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 > 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) > little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 14:42:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA04140; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:38:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:38:56 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman mail.earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:41:59 -0600 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: * * * RADIO INTERVIEW * * * Resent-Message-ID: <"zA0z92.0.c01.lL5gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8420 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: * * * * * * * * RADIO INTERVIEW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Interview Scheduled for 12:00pm, Wed., June 18th! Inventor Joseph Newman will be interviewed on the Texas State Network tonight at midnight (Central Time). The host radio station is KRLD-AM [1080] in Dallas, and the interview will be heard on 29 other Texas Stations including: KPRC [950] Houston, KVET [1300] Austin KLVI [560] Beaumont, KGNT [710] Amarillo and KTBB in Tyler, Texas ..... * * * * * * * * RADIO INTERVIEW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 14:46:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA03595; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:36:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:36:32 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33A854D9.7DE2 math.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:36:25 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hearing voices not unusual References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ufYJb.0.4u.VJ5gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8419 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chuck Davis wrote: > > On 18-Jun-97, Mike Butcher wrote: > [snip...] > > >So I find this whole "trash the religion" thing amusing much like the > >absurdity of seeing a person burning a bridge then trying to walk across it > >to get to where he wants to go. > > Yes, and he, arrogantly, forgets that he's trashing the same folk that > pay his salary This is why the tenure system exists---so that people are free to assert that relgion is based on myths of the human species, and that people who hear inner voices have a organic disfunction, without subsequently losing their jobs, or, say, being handed over to the Spanish Inquisition. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 14:48:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA05831; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:44:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:44:18 -0700 Date: 18 Jun 97 17:42:18 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Phase 5 not reached? Message-ID: <970618214218_72240.1256_EHB88-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"MQEJ21.0.1R1.nQ5gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8421 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex Greg's home page has messages like: Sorry... Phase 5 is not yet reached! That's http://home.worldonline.nl/~catware/phase5.html. Phase five is when the ball goes around and around without stopping. Greg: does this mean your home page is not finished? Or does it mean you have never achieved Phase 5, and you retract your earlier claims?!? The home page also says phases 3 and 4 have not been reached. I don't get it. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 14:49:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA06505; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:45:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:45:08 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33A856DA.3FFF math.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:44:58 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: USA Today17/ June reports giant UFO flies over Pheonix Az USA References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"N2FBw1.0.Ub1.ZR5gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8422 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > > If it's for real it seems on topic to me. A craft 1 mi. long floating > along at 30 mi/hr. sounds like fairly good evidence Uh...where did this "craft" go? I think our jets---or a bicycle---would be able to track it fairly well. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 14:59:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA12043; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:55:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:55:38 -0700 Message-ID: <33A85873.A566F08A microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:21:47 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: Re: SMOT Mk II Beta (Rollaway!!!!!) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199706180639.XAA26713 italy.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"x1RnZ3.0.ix2.Nb5gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8423 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > Have you closed the loop with this ramp design? Will this design be > incorporated in your SMOT kit? Will the kit contain all parts required > to > build a close the loop course? > > Best Regards, > Michael Hi Michael, No, I haven't closed with the beta 1 design yet. My design goal was to achieve a "SIMPLE" to adjust ramp which could achieve a equal height level rollaway. Then use either 2 ramps linked via 2 x 180 deg sections of level track or use 4 ramps linked via 4 x 90 deg sections of track. The design IS easy to adjust and will do a equal height level rollaway and will allow your experimention and testing to achieve higher lifts and still hold the 0mm dropaway feature (increase the lift - dropaway = rollaway PE). SO our goal is to achieve a rollaway, then maximize lift and do a 90 deg link to a second ramp. Closing is then assured. REMEMBER .......... Raw lift power is NOT the answer ............ GO for MAX Rollaway PE .......... -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 15:05:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA24844; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 07:47:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706181247.HAA12358 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Cincinatti RR Resent-Message-ID: <"xQhOo1.0.B_5.Sr_fp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8398 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:28 AM 6/18/97 EDT, Chris wrote: >if these >reports are legit....then this is not nuclear >physics as we understand it.... >why demand explanations within present physics? I'm just asking why the energy is apparently not released, Chris. The question is not a demand that present physics explain this phenomena...just my first step into understanding the new physics. Do you think the new physics might allow the disappearance of this energy? Fred S suggests that neutrinos could be carrying the energy away safely in 90-200 MeV chunks. Is this plausible? Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 15:11:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA16653; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:03:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:03:10 -0700 From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970618180112_57896590 emout11.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hearing voices not unusual Resent-Message-ID: <"QvP5A3.0.x34.Ri5gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8424 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jed about five years ago I was working with a high frequency ultrasonic experiment. For may hours afterI turned the thing off I could still hear it squeeling. The sound finally went away. I figured this was not good for me so the next time I wore ear true. Strange but true! Frank Znidarsic From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 15:20:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA23529; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:16:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:16:34 -0700 Message-ID: <33A85D61.BA059759 microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:42:49 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: List Server Freenrg Subject: Re: SMOTs and lift-dropaway=rollaway testing X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6IIBR1.0.Ul5.-u5gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8425 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Schaffer gav.gat.com wrote: > > There has been a great deal of discussion about 'rollaway' in SMOT > testing. > However, I have so far not read a definition of 'rollaway'. > > Is it 'rollaway' when: > > 1) the ball rolls beyond of the sharp magnetic barrier (that exists near > the end of the magnet array) but is subsequently trapped in the return flux > well a few cm away along the level exit track; or Not this one. > 2) the ball continues to roll out of the return flux well along the level > exit track and stops some good distance beyond the end of the magnets, > beyond the influence of their return flux, say 10 cm or more. This always has been my defination of a Rollaway. > In both cases, I presume that the exit track is level and no lower than the > entrance track. Correct. > Case 1 rollaway might be tricky to achieve, but it is in no way prohibited > by ordinary magnetics and conservation of energy. Case 2 rollaway requires > something extra. > > Michael J. Schaffer Hi Michael, Its case 2 or nothing. So far 3 others have reported success at rollaways. One has reported a 6 loop rollaround. Getting interested??????? -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 15:31:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA25075; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:31:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:31:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Davis To: Mike Butcher Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 05:54:26 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <01BC7BE3.27F08CC0 ppp170.enterprise.net> X-Mailer: YAM 1.3.4 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck Organization: ROSHI Corporation Subject: RE: Hearing voices not unusual MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"OzDH6.0.h26.yr_fp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8399 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 18-Jun-97, Mike Butcher wrote: [snip...] >So I find this whole "trash the religion" thing amusing much like the >absurdity of seeing a person burning a bridge then trying to walk across it >to get to where he wants to go. Yes, and he, arrogantly, forgets that he's trashing the same folk that pay his salary and, at the same time, pay for food stamps and welfare ;^) -- .-. .-. / \ .-. .-. / \ / \ / \ .-. _ .-. / \ / \ -/--Chuck Davis -------\-----/---\---/-\---/---\-----/-----\-------/-------\-- RoshiCorp ROSHI.com \ / \_/ `-' \ / \ / \ / `-' `-' \ / `-' `-' www.his.com/~emerald7/roshi.cmp/roshi.html From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 15:32:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA27982; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:26:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:26:44 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:26:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706182226.RAA01494 dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com> From: aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki ) Subject: Re: USA Today17/ June reports giant UFO flies over Pheonix Az USA To: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"VHeWJ1.0.8r6.Z26gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8426 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: June 18, 1997 You wrote: > >The full page story states that it was one mile long, flew slowly over >the city at 30 miles per hour, hovered over the city for 160 minutes, >jet interceptors were dispached, was seen by pilots and air traffic >controllers, thousands saw it, videos were taken by may separate >observers. For whatever it may worth. I called the Phoenix Az. police dept. to see if they knew of this. I assumed it happened within a day or so. The front desk officer confirmed he saw a news coverage (a news break-in). No details, no excitement. A so-what attitude. Did take my name and ph. no. though. Next called TV channel 12 KPNX news dept. They said there were was an UFO incident and on news --- over two months ago. US Today just now made a coverage on it. Nothing to get excited about --- it was determined that a flight of five Air Force jets flying in formation gave the impression of the UFO. Food for speculators on cover-ups and dis-information theories to feed on! I kinda like UFOs myself. -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 15:41:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA24600; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: 18 Jun 97 09:06:41 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: RE: Hearing voices not unusual Message-ID: <970618130641_100433.1541_BHG83-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"6JFpz1.0.zy5.8r_fp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8397 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Mike, > This selection process is ultimately subjective with a group of > scientific priests deciding what is or is not a valid method of > measuring the evidence. If we say one religious position is false > we measure it by comparing it with own religious presuppositions. > We cannot escape this reality. Exactly. Maddox's polemic against religion was simply his affirmation of his own belief system - his "religion". Anyone who passionately attacks a belief system in that "fundamentalist" way is a religionist. For myself, I prefer the religiosity and humility of Michael Faraday, and tend to be highly suspicious of those who feel the need to attack the beliefs of others - or those who attempt to force their own beliefs on others. I have my own beliefs, which I feel required to accept by the weight of subjective and maybe objective evidence, but would never want to persuade others that these are correct. What is right for me might well be wrong for someone else, and vice-versa. I suppose what bugs me is the way that many well-educated people have such simplistic views. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 15:53:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA10990; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:53:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:53:57 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 05:23:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Rusi To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: News release from R. Bass In-Reply-To: <970618023410_76570.2270_FHU15-2 CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5fFPS3.0.se2.wG0gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8403 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The world's greatest spirits have been inspired by what they believe to be a higher power. But as far a CF is concerned, the same individuals keep saying commercial product are four years away, since 1989, people have been saying that. Where is the 20 Kw home generator from pons and flieshman? Where is the CF car from toyota? even the test kits are ridiculously overpriced. CF has so far not turned out to be a gift from the gods that set the masses free. I hope I am wrong in the future, but I see no evidence of it. the prizes for free energy remain unclaimed. Scott little has been unable to replicate CETI's beads the last I heard. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 16:07:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA24919; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:32:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:32:14 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:59:15 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970618235940.082f8d84 po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8 po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: mpower consultants Subject: Neutrino flow density ? (was: Cincinatti RR) Resent-Message-ID: <"qI-dv.0.q26.4k1gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8407 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Frederick J. Sparber posted the following (edited for brevity) at 06:39 1997.06.18 +0000: >At 05:50 AM 6/18/97 +0000, Scott wrote: >When I first saw the subject (half awake), Cincinnati RailRoad? . . >, and since we are accustomed >to having something like 3E14 Solar neutrinos/m^2, with energy up to 87 Mev >going through our bodies every second of our lives this would not be a >safety concern. :-) > >Regards, Frederick > > Is this number "gospel" ? If so, is the 87 Mev a 'peak' number ? Just what is the total power density rate of the neutrino flow, anyway ? just curious... MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM * http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 (-latest update: 1997.06.10.12:30-) * **************************************************************************** ********************* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 16:16:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA11357; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:56:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:56:32 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:11:06 GMT From: "Peter Glueck" Message-ID: <33a7ec81.itim itim.org.soroscj.ro> To: "vortex" Cc: "Peter Glueck" Subject: Bass Report. Resent-Message-ID: <"VFsu7.0.Ml2.TJ0gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8404 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Vorts, It is a bit strange that instead of discussing the results of the Cincinnati Group which are very important, we have to disfocus on the fuzzy halo which surround that event. The results are very consistent and are in concordance with those of CETI and many others. As regarding the ability to hear voices, that's simply right brain hemisphere activity, our ancestors had lost this step by step in favor of the logical left brain thinking, but not completely. As regarding the new paradigm: If it is possible to capture energy from the space, the reverse process is probably also possible..the energy which cannot be explained away in the frame of the known paradigm is actually simply discarded and goes back to the ZPE. A PARADIGM TOO FAR or reality? Peter -- dr. Peter Gluck Institute of Isotopic and Molecular Technology Fax:064-420042 Cluj-Napoca, str. Donath 65-103, P.O.Box 700 Tel:064-184037/144 Cluj 5, 3400 Romania Home: 064-174976 E-mail: peter itim.org.soroscj.ro , peterg@oc1.itim-cj.ro From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 16:28:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA15176; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:26:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:26:58 -0700 Message-ID: <33A87093.699 gorge.net> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:34:43 -0700 From: tom gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cincinatti RR References: <199706182220.PAA25115 mx1.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vXA36.0.-i3.0x6gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8428 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dr. Merriman: It looks like the news release said the product was: .01 gram Copper .09 gram Titanium Whereas all of your calculations were based on the reverse proportion. Tom Miller ps: A different way of looking at TENURE would be that people who have obtained tenure are able to engage in any amount of foolishness, without being held to account. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 16:34:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA16731; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:22:03 -0700 From: Lynn Kurtz Subject: Re: USA Today17/ June reports giant UFO flies over Pheonix Az USA Sender: kurtz IMAP2.ASU.EDU To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Simeon for Win32 Version 4.0.9 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: NORMAL X-Authentication: none Resent-Message-ID: <"b37xm1.0.954.wt6gp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8427 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:26:02 -0500 (CDT) Akira Kawasaki wrote: > June 18, 1997 > > You wrote: > > > >The full page story states that it was one mile long, flew slowly over > >the city at 30 miles per hour, hovered over the city for 160 minutes, > >jet interceptors were dispached, was seen by pilots and air traffic > >controllers, thousands saw it, videos were taken by may separate > >observers. > > A mile long? Hovered for almost 3 hours?? Over Phoenix??? I live here. It didn't happen. -- Lynn From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 17:11:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA26168; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:07:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:07:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A87713.A6BC5B0F microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:32:27 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server NeoTech , List Server Newman , List Server Vortex Subject: SMOT Results 2 x Rollaways, 1 x Rollaround X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CeoeJ3.0.kO6.eW7gp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8429 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I have just updated the SMOT Result data base with Epitaxy and Ken Smith's results. Check out Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ 1 x Rollaround. 2 x Rollaways at higher than entry level. The world is changing. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 17:37:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA09847; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:35:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:35:30 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33A87EC6.3E5D math.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:35:18 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cincinatti RR References: <199706180550.AAA16990 natasha.eden.com> <33A85326.46D3@math.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pbh4W2.0.nP2.Hx7gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8430 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: > > Scott Little wrote: > > > > I would like to understand how it could be possible for > > Th to be converted to Cu. > > > > major concerns: > > > > reaction path: If you just start carving Cu-65 atoms out of > > Th-232, you can get 3 whole Cu-65 atoms but you have 3 protons > > and 34 neutrons left over! > > Precisely. The "press release" said: > > *** in less than an hour, one-tenth > gram of radioactive thorium has been transmuted into > nine-hundredths gram of titanium plus one-hundredth gram > of copper. *** OOPs---as was pointed out by Tom Miller, I reversed Cu and Ti in the calc below. So, lets reverse it back to the right proportions: (note it makes no change in the conclusions, since the main point is that heavy nuclei -> light nuclei, and Cu and Ti are fairly similar light nuclei) > > Lets see: we start with Th (Z = 90, N = 142), and we > transmute---precisely,in terms of mass---into 90% copper > (Z = 29, N = 34 or 36), and 10% Ti (Z = 22, N = 24--28). > > Start: Th: (0.10 gm)/(232 gm) mol x 90 protons = 0.039 mol p > x 142 neutron= 0.059 mol n > > > Finish: Cu: (0.01 gm)/(63 +0&2 gm) mol x 29 p = 0.0045 upto > 0.0046 mol p > > x 34&36 n = 0.0055 downto > 0.0054 mol n > > Ti: (0.09 gm)/(46 +0--4gm) mol x 22 p = 0.040 upto > 0.043 mol p > > x 24--28 = 0.050 downto > 0.047 mol n > > So, lets see whats left over: > > Starting: > > 0.039 mol p > 0.059 mol n > > (n + p = 0.098 mol---close enough to 0.1 gm we started with) > > Finish: range of (add above estimates for Cu, Ti) > > (low proton est.) to (hi proton est.) > 0.045 mol p 0.048 mol p > 0.055 mol n 0.052 mol n > > (n+p = 0.10 mol--ok, n+p = 0.10 mol--ok) > > So: Finish - Start = { gain: 0.006--0.009 (+/- 0.002) mol protons > { lost: 0.004--0.007 (+/- 0.002) mol neutrons > Still, the conclusions did not change much---you still lost neutrons and gained a similar amount of protons, because high mass elemenents like Th are mostly neutron, while low mass elements like Cu, Ti are mostly proton. Thus there is still either wholesale n -> p beta decay, or some other nuclear reaction n + X -> p + Y which must create new elemenents (i.e. X, Y must be different elements, and they are not the Cu and Ti) which are entirely unaccounted for at this point. It makes little sense to me to claim that Th was transmuted into Cu and Ti, since that could at best only be one of several reactions occuring in roughly equal amounts. How is it that they did not see any energy of beta decay, or any of the other reactants which must have been created in ~ 0.001 mole (~ milligram) amounts?? As for Chris comments that it could be wholesale new physics: well sure, it could, but are you willing to bet that it is? *If* their full report really does not show any other commensurate reactions, I'd say the experiment was probably bogus. Thus---as always---only further replication would be able to give credibility to the results. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 17:45:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA03996; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:36:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:36:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: 18 Jun 97 20:34:26 EDT From: Gene <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: , Subject: Re: USA Today17/ June reports giant UFO flies over Pheonix Az U Message-ID: <970619003425_76570.2270_FHU50-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"MJIFa1.0.J-.Yy7gp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8431 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Akira wrote: >Next called TV channel 12 KPNX news dept. They said there were was an >UFO incident and on news --- over two months ago. US Today just now >made a coverage on it. Nothing to get excited about --- it was >determined that a flight of five Air Force jets flying in formation >gave the impression of the UFO. ABC television evening news tonight coverd the March 13, 1997 episode. There were photos, reconstructions, and numerous witnesses. Interesting that no radar contact was made. It was left as a major unexplained event. I don't buy the Air Force planes flying in formation explanation (i.e. bullshit). Gene Mallove From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 17:46:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA11246; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:43:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:43:26 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Neutrino flow density ? (was: Cincinatti RR) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:42:46 +0000 Message-ID: <19970619004244.AAA5912 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"xM4wG3.0.Wl2.j28gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8432 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 03:59 PM 6/18/97 +0000, mpower wrote: >Frederick J. Sparber posted the following (edited for brevity) at 06:39 >1997.06.18 +0000: >>At 05:50 AM 6/18/97 +0000, Scott wrote: >>When I first saw the subject (half awake), Cincinnati RailRoad? >. >. >>, and since we are accustomed >>to having something like 3E14 Solar neutrinos/m^2, with energy up to 87 Mev >>going through our bodies every second of our lives this would not be a >>safety concern. :-) >> >>Regards, Frederick >> >> > >Is this number "gospel" ? If so, is the 87 Mev a 'peak' number ? >Just what is the total power density rate of the neutrino flow, anyway ? Not "gospel". Just a wild-eyed guess as to how a couple of hundred Mev energy release might not show up in everyday radiation detection apparatus. :-) Martin Sevior gave a number of about 2.5E13 neutrinos/cm^2 per second. That would be about 2.5E17/meter^2 per second. The literature says power-wise the neutrinos represent about 2% of the Solar energy output. So you could figure a proportional percentage in the 1.3 kw/meter^2 solar insolation on the Earth. The Tau neutrino has an estimated rest mass something less than 35 Mev, the muon neutrino less than 0.27 Mev, and the electron neutrino a rest mass less than 17 ev. But they can carry variable amounts of energy. Tricky little critters that travel very close to the speed of light. Regards, Frederick > >just curious... >MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM >* http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 (-latest update: >1997.06.10.12:30-) * >**************************************************************************** >********************* > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 17:47:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA12756; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:46:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:46:15 -0700 From: rvanspaa eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Frank's Tiny Comets Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:38:41 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <33aa7f59.4563198 mail.eisa.net.au> References: <970618122657_1925074429 emout13.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <970618122657_1925074429 emout13.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Epwhu1.0.E73.M58gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8433 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:29:40 -0400 (EDT), Puthoff aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 6/13/97 7:09:18 AM, vortex-l eskimo.com wrote: > ><hit with these snow balls? >Butch LaFonte>> > >They disintegrate at altitudes well above orbits of space shuttle and Mir >space station, according to 29 May Wash. Post article. > >Hal Puthoff > So they are actually "clouds" out in space before they hit the atmosphere :). Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 18:02:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA15779; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:01:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:01:24 -0700 From: rvanspaa eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cincinatti RR Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:01:08 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <33ab80fe.4984073 mail.eisa.net.au> References: <970618102829_100433.1541_BHG107-2 CompuServe.COM> In-Reply-To: <970618102829_100433.1541_BHG107-2 CompuServe.COM> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"46mu6.0.Ts3.ZJ8gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8435 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 18 Jun 97 06:28:29 EDT, Chris Tinsley wrote: >Scott, > > > Each Th-232 atom would yield 3.57 Cu-65 atoms and 276 Mev of > > energy would necessarily be released. The claimed conversion of > > 0.1 grams of Th to Cu in 1 hour would therefore be accompanied by > > the release of 3.2 megawatts for the entire hour! Clearly, this > > energy release is not occurring in these RR experiments. Why not? > >Well, you've just reposted my comments of yesterday. Now, if these >reports are legit (and the Cincinnati ones look clearer and were done >independently, so they at least look hopeful) then this is not nuclear >physics as we understand it. Therefore it would be something new, >right? So, why demand explanations within present physics? After all, >there just *might* be new things coming along in science. > >Chris > So how about the following partial solution. Thorium alone is not involved. If various other light elements are "taken along for the ride", then the absence of external energy release can be easily explained. E.g. oxygen could be split into helium. Or potassium into oxygen and lithium according to: 39K -> 2 x 16O + 7Li - 39 MeV. or 4 x n + 39K -> 2 x 18O + 7Li - 15 MeV (this would also "soak up" excess neutrons) Enough of these "hangers on" could absorb the energy of fission of the thorium. How many of them were involved in any given reaction, would depend on the degree of long range order existing at the reaction site (probably at an electrode surface?). The thorium itself could still be converted primarily into copper &/or titanium. "Stray" neutrons might be absorbed by the "hangers on", or ("attendant nuclei" if you prefer). The reactions don't happen independently, or more to the point there is really only one large reaction, that has a series of input products, that get "rearranged" or transmuted into a series of output products. In the reaction above, the end products would all end up in solution. Question for Elliot: Did the solution itself contain any new elements after the process? (These might even go unnoticed, if they happened to coincide with elements already present at the start e.g. oxygen). Acknowledgement: Most of this concept first proposed by Joe Champion AFAIK. Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 18:05:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA07933; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:01:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: josephnewman mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:03:46 -0600 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: RE: Hearing voices not unusual Resent-Message-ID: <"uifHQ2.0.mx1.bJ8gp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8434 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Mike, > > > This selection process is ultimately subjective with a group of > > scientific priests deciding what is or is not a valid method of > > measuring the evidence. If we say one religious position is false > > we measure it by comparing it with own religious presuppositions. > > We cannot escape this reality. > >Exactly. Maddox's polemic against religion was simply his affirmation >of his own belief system - his "religion". Anyone who passionately >attacks a belief system in that "fundamentalist" way is a religionist. > >For myself, I prefer the religiosity and humility of Michael Faraday, >and tend to be highly suspicious of those who feel the need to attack >the beliefs of others - or those who attempt to force their own beliefs >on others. I have my own beliefs, which I feel required to accept by >the weight of subjective and maybe objective evidence, but would never >want to persuade others that these are correct. What is right for me >might well be wrong for someone else, and vice-versa. > >I suppose what bugs me is the way that many well-educated people have >such simplistic views. > >Chris For those of a deistic persuasion, perhaps Thomas Paine said it best when he wrote, "I believe in one God and no more and I hope for happiness beyond this life." Evan "The idea that humanity should not perish for the sake of her great, creative minds was always present to me and I feel it as the only argument in favor of its conservation." --- ALBERT EINSTEIN From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 18:58:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA19356; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:53:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199706190153.SAA01638 Au.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: tessien oro.net (Ross Tessien) Subject: On NBC tonight: UFO flies over Pheonix Az U Resent-Message-ID: <"JJG-i3.0.Kk4.U59gp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8436 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >ABC television evening news tonight coverd the March 13, 1997 episode. >There were photos, reconstructions, and numerous witnesses. Interesting >that no radar contact was made. It was left as a major unexplained >event. I don't buy the Air Force planes flying in formation explanation >(i.e. bullshit). > I just saw the video of the thing (well, about 20 seconds worth), on NBC nightly news. I would imagine they would have it on later tonight as well when they probably re-broadcast virtually the same stories. In any case, it appeared as a group of lights. In the twenty seconds I couldn't make out any relative motion of the lights, which were clear, bright, and very obviously some large structure if they are indeed connected. They showed two people who saw it from closer and said they could make out structure connecting the lights. As for the UFO story, well, I am not biting on this information. But whatever it was, I don't think it was a formation flying or someone would easily have noticed, and mentioned, relative motion between the lights. As for a huge structure, the one mile length estimate I believe to be accurate as I could clearly make out the lights and houses lit by street lights in the distance. But you know about paralax and an image you didn't obtain yourself. In any case, there is a lot of people who saw this one, so I think the size estimates can be trusted. So that leaves the question of what could have created the thing. To build a one mile sized superstructure would have been quite a feat. And to lift it silently with todays technology would mean helium balloons. And they would fairly easily blow around if there was any breeze, and so need to have some propellors to direct and stabilize them. Also, that sized super structure is not something you do in any old backyard for a couple bucks. But then the back yards around Pheonix have a bit more real estate to play in than in most areas :-) Well, I think someone had a lot of fun with this one, but I must say that I am not biting on formation flying. The cheapest device would be a tensile structure out of strings with thrust applying tension to the structure. But if that is how they did it, then we ought to see vertical relative motion in a full video of the things motion for several minutes of flight. Sounds like a good hoax to me just in time for 50 years of Roswell and a number of other UFO anniverseries that are coming up. But as mentioned by the announcer, maybe they are listening and are just picking the date to match our expectations! ;-) Later, Ross From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 19:22:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA23377; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A89684.530B skylink.net> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:16:36 -0700 From: Robert Stirniman X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hearing voices not unusual References: <33A854D9.7DE2@math.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DlnzM.0.9j5.nS9gp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8437 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: > This is why the tenure system exists---so that people are > free to assert that relgion is based on myths of the human > species, and that people who hear inner voices have a > organic disfunction, without subsequently losing their > jobs, or, say, being handed over to the Spanish Inquisition. As Monty Python once said, no one asks for the Spanish Inquisition. For that matter, neither did we ask for the Hot Fusion Inquisition. Billions in public science money has been burnt at the stake by tenured scientists, and we have received literaly nothing in return. How much important work was not done because these public resources were wasted? Is it fraud to waste this much money, or simply a stupid mistake? Maybe the Cincinnatti group is perpetrating a hoax. I don't know and don't think so, but in any case, at least they have spent their own money doing so. Regards, Robert Stirniman From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 19:23:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA08264; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:19:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:19:30 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:19:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706190219.VAA05737 dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> From: aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki ) Subject: Robert Bass's address To: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"0P8_a.0._02.nS9gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8438 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: June 18, 1997 On a light note. Noticed on Dr. Bass's news release that his P.O. box address is in Pahrump, Nv. Interesting. Same town as Art Bell. The town that had recently installed a single traffic light as Art mentioned. It's booming. They probably know each other. The town is also close to the mysterious A.F.'s Area 51. I mention these items with respect to both gentlemen and their talents. Richard Hoagland was on the Art Bell show last night. He gave an interesting talk about the relationship between the Pyramids, the Mars artifacts, other major ancient landmarks, the Mars mission and Phoenix, Arizona! Facinating. Seems to really stuck his neck out on predictions. My mind was stimulated but my body collapsed to sleep so I did not catch everything. Recordings are available. It was mentioned that what with seeming accelerated events and coverage of topics like Eugene Mallove's infinite energy resource of cold fusion, changes are coming about perhaps more faster than the "Quickening" titled books published by Art Bell and earlier by Mallove. This is not to belittle hearing voices but in my case it is usually that portable talking to me in the dead of night as I drift in the "Twilight Zone". -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 19:30:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA24848; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:28:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:28:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A8982E.62564EA0 microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:53:42 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: SMOT Links 2x 3x X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8B2vz1.0.A46.ua9gp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8439 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Thanks to Jean-Louis, I have just updated my site with images of 2 and 3 linked ramps. http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/energy.html#SMOT Good SMOTING. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 19:49:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA13871; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:47:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:47:38 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33A89DC0.5AD3 math.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:47:28 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hearing voices not unusual References: <33A854D9.7DE2@math.ucla.edu> <33A89684.530B@skylink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tEUMb1.0.fO3.9t9gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8440 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Robert Stirniman wrote: > > Billions in public science money has been burnt at the stake by > tenured scientists, and we have received literaly nothing in return. You have a strange accounting system if you really believe that. Do you think those dollars just slipped into the aether? At worst they cycled through the economy. What you are trying to say is you did not receive a fusion power plant *yet*. But this is the concept of investment. You get the money back when the investment pays off. You are saying the investment will never pay off---that is a prediction, not a fact. I predict it will pay off, and my prediction I think is in greater accord with the reality of fusion research. But, even if we accept your scenario---a viable hot fusion reactor is never built---you still cannot say you received "nothing" in return. You must instead calculate the real return on that investment, which includes many spinoff dividends related to plasma processing (a multibillion dollar per year business, and growing rapidly, heavily instrumented and staffed with equipment and people developed in the hot fusion program), among other things. I'm willing to bet that if an economist did a thorough accounting of the return on investment in the hot fusion program, that even if *no* credit is given for a future fusion reactor, there would still be a net gain over if the same money had simply been channeled into the average government investments. There is nothing unique to hot fusion here---I think the same is true of most massive high technology pushes...they tend to spinoff plenty of useful stuff even if the main thrust is a total wash. You can debate whether that is the best conceivable way to use the money, but you can't complain that you did not get a good return. I think the CF crowd would be better off putting their own house in order than trying to inject disorder into the house of hot fusion. The facts are simple: if CF is real and works a'la' CETI, then yes, it will completely eliminate the need for hot fusion in the near term (hundreds of years...long term, still hard to predict). On the other hand, it is equally true that if CF goes nowehere, hot fusion will go forward and produce perfectly viable reactors for the countries that are willing to pay for the development---and the asian countries are all very interested in this, even if the US has gone lukewarm, so it will happen. Personally: even though I work on hot fusion much of the time, I want to win whichever approach is overall easier to achieve. ...May the best concept win is my attitude. I am simply troubled by the question of whether CF ir "real" at all---its potential technology implications are obvious and do not trouble me one bit. Note to Chris: you are troubled by the simplistic opinions held by educated people. I am troubled only by the way people see what they want to see rather than what is really there. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 13:05:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA11241; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:02:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:02:10 -0700 Date: 18 Jun 97 16:00:29 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: BlindCopyReceiver:; Subject: "Rollaway" definition Message-ID: <970618200029_72240.1256_EHB86-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"h6hN43.0.Yl2.0x3gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8413 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex; >INTERNET:gwatson microtronics.com.au; >INTERNET:JNaudin509 aol.com Michael J. Schaffer asks a critical question: 1) the ball rolls beyond of the sharp magnetic barrier (that exists near the end of the magnet array) but is subsequently trapped in the return flux well a few cm away along the level exit track . . . Nope! Anyone can get a SMOT to do this, even me. Actually, mine usually stops dead at the end of the ramp, trapped in the flux. 2) the ball continues to roll out of the return flux well along the level exit track and stops some good distance beyond the end of the magnets, beyond the influence of their return flux, say 10 cm or more. Yes! Please see the latest GIF from Greg Watson. The exit track is level with the entrance. At least, I hope it is level, and not slightly biased downhill. The ball is supposed to hit the exit track and keep going, right out of the picture, the way it does in the little movie on Jean-Louis Naudin's home page. I believe that the SMOT shown in Naudin's movie actually has an exit ramp below the entrance ramp level. I asked him about that, but he never responded. If the exit drops below the entrance then a rollaway proves nothing, although I must say, even a fake rollaway is difficult to engineer. I can't get it happen often even when I cheat and give myself an extra 5 mm drop. Please note that another legitimate, real o-u rollaway would be to go up 10 mm, drop down 8 mm onto a track which slopes down slightly to drop another 1 mm. This is more practical, I think. It is kind of like the "kick" the curved ramp gives the ball as it falls. Case 1 rollaway might be tricky to achieve, but it is in no way prohibited by ordinary magnetics and conservation of energy. Very tricky! But of course it is no anomaly. Just a cute parlor trick. Case 2 rollaway requires something extra. Exactly! Let us make double sure of this. This is the whole point, and if Greg and Jean-louis have not triple checked it we could be wasting our time. (Except, of course, Greg also saw a closed loop . . . maybe he was dreaming?!?) I'll send this message directly to the principals, as well Vortex. GREG: I know you are busy, but please tell us: 1. Are you sure your SMOT Mk II exit ramp is level or slightly above the entrance ramp? 2. Have you removed the magnets and placed the ball on the exit track to see if it rolls away? Have you tried giving the exit track a slight bias back towards the ramp? 3. Have you tried it with the exit ramp slightly above the entrance, say 1 mm? 4. How far away does the ball roll? JEAN-LOUIS: In your home page movie, does the ball ever drop to a level below the starting point? When it rolls out of the picture, is it level with or below the starting point? From the drawing, I think it ends up 3 mm below the starting point. I asked you this before, and so did some other people. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 20:26:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA07265; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:23:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:23:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: 18 Jun 97 23:19:51 EDT From: Gene <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: , Subject: Re: Hearing voices not unusual Message-ID: <970619031951_76570.2270_FHU56-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"2aECG.0.Qn1.NOAgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8441 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Robert wrote: >As Monty Python once said, no one asks for the Spanish Inquisition. >For that matter, neither did we ask for the Hot Fusion Inquisition. >Billions in public science money has been burnt at the stake by >tenured scientists, and we have received literaly nothing in return. >How much important work was not done because these public resources >were wasted? Is it fraud to waste this much money, or simply a stupid >mistake? It is not a stupid mistake. It is fraud, plain and simple. The fraud escalates with each passing year. The MIT PFC is into at least $200 million fraud -- and rising. Gene From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 20:42:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA10995; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970619033742.0066d27c sparc1> X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:37:42 +0900 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Elliot Kennel Subject: Pd Sims Resent-Message-ID: <"oqfq53.0.eh2.7dAgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8442 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed wrote: >> Well, perhaps you should follow Martin Fleischmann's suggestion and try some of the Johnson-Matthey special 'Type A' palladium.< As you probably know, we also use Johnson Matthey and other sources of Pd, not just one. Anyway we observed the phenomenon we were looking for. BTW, Mizuno also has obtained strong positive results on non-excess heat cathodes. I think you are under the impression that apparent excess heat and apparent isotope shift are strongly related. I don't think that is the case at all. >>JR: I am sure Ohmori cannot afford a $5,000 high resolution investigation! They get a university discount. But their measurements are first rate. >>I do not understand why you leave this opportunity lying on the table<< But Jed, we did the experiment and obtained the result we were looking for. >>You will get no help from the Russians, who are thousands of miles away, whereas Ohmori is practically next door.<< No. Andrei Lipson, from the Institute of Physical Chemistry in Moscow who (along with Alexander Rousettskiy) in my view had the most impressive result in ICCF-6) has the desk across from mine for the next year, as I have mentioned several times. We are working with Mizuno and Ohmori on experiments at Hokkaido University together. >>Surely you can see more with these high-res instruments!<< No! Mizuno's and Ohmori's results are state of the art, subcontracted to a first class SIMS operator. They are not amateurs doing nickel and dime experiments. They are a first class outfit with access to first class equipment. That is why I have been much more impressed with their results than others in the field including Miley's, as I have stated many times. BTW, a while back you criticized Mizuno's lab facilities and I couldn't figure out what you were talking about. Then it dawned on me that you were thinking of his OFFICE which has several experiments in it, along with a ton of clutter. But his real lab is in the next building and contains, among other things, a nuclear accelerator and a multimillion dollar neutron detection facility. You are greatly mistaken if you think that their work is not supported with excellent facilities. >>What is a "SIMS anomaly"? Is that an artifact of the SIMS machine? Is it transmutation induced by the SIMS machine?<< By that I mean an apparent isotope shift as detected by SIMS. I take it as an experimental fact that electrolysis of Pd produces apparent isotope shifts as measured by SIMS, but I do not know why it occurs, or what necessary and sufficient conditions are to achieve the effect. Thus, to simply show that the same sample exhibits an isotope shift over and over again does not eliminate the possibility that it is an artifact of some type, or that isotope separation has occurred. I would like to know when anomalies are produced, and when they are not produced (for example, if you anneal the sample, are the apparent isotope shifts removed? What is required to NOT get a positive result? The issues for this experiment are much different than the apparent excess heat phenomenon). >>Why on earth are you looking for neutrons?!? CF reactions hardly ever produce them.<< It is true that apparent excess heat is reportedly not accompanied by a reliable neutron signature. But that is not the only experiment out there. Perhaps you should re-read the proceedings of ICCF-7. Also, most of the laboratory is comprised of electrochemists and materials scientists, but Lipson and I are nuclear physicists, so we are doing what nuclear physicsts do. Anyway, I don't think you know enough about what we are doing to say what we should and should not look for. >>People say the NHE lab is uncooperative..<< You're entitled to your opinion, though I must say it is unpleasant to be blasted in print or on the net or whereever. You're certainly correct that we have not gotten the positive results that others have claimed, though the reason why that is has various interpretations to say the least. But nobody in Japan has ever told me that I'm uncooperative, least of all Mizuno and Ohmori. I think you're way off base. Best regards, Elliot Sapporo Japan From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 20:44:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA05038; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:43:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:43:02 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33A8AABD.F3E math.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:42:53 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hearing voices not unusual References: <970619031951_76570.2270_FHU56-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mWyMM.0.cE1.4hAgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8443 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gene wrote: > > > It [Hot Fusion] not a stupid mistake. > It is fraud, plain and simple. The fraud > escalates with each passing year. The MIT PFC is into at least $200 > million fraud -- and rising. > > Gene It sounds like you are saying the founding fathers of fusion energy research---teller, sakarov, Spitzer, Rosenbluth, Dawson, etc all knew back in the 1960's that it would never work, but decided to perpetrate a huge fraud on the populace to extract money. Fraud implies foreknowledge and intent. Can you tell us exactly who it was who had this knowledge and intent? I doubt it was anyone at all, in fact. Simple fact is that hot fusion turns out to be harder and more expensive than anyone originally estimated it to be. Since when is that fraud? -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 21:14:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA17217; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:04:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706190404.XAA11595 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Bass Report. Resent-Message-ID: <"RMtiN3.0.wC4.M0Bgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8444 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:11 PM 6/18/97 GMT, Peter wrote: >If it is possible to capture energy from the space, the reverse >process is probably also possible..the energy which cannot be explained >away in the frame of the known paradigm is actually simply discarded >and goes back to the ZPE. That sounds OK to me, Peter. But the energy still has to leave the vicinity of the experiment and radiate away into the ZPF. The most likely form for this energy is photons, right? So, for the duration of this hour-long transmutation of 0.1g of Th-232 into middle-weight elements like Ti and Cu, we can expect the experiment to look like a 3 megawatt photon source. I don't that that would go unnoticed. Robin suggested that the Th -> Cu/Ti energy excess could all go into the formation of very light nuclei. This seems at least possible, no? Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 22:09:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA27982; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 22:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 22:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A8BD64.9465621A microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:32:28 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: DNMEC Update X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Aydue.0.8r6.wvBgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8445 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, As I have had several requests for more info on the DNMEC effect, I have updated my site with further info on the DNMEC effect and why drive motor current goes down as current is drawn from the output coil. Check out : http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/energy.html#DNMEC -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 22:30:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA02121; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 22:27:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 22:27:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:07:10 GMT From: "Peter Glueck" Message-ID: <33a8cc92.itim itim.org.soroscj.ro> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bass Report. Resent-Message-ID: <"Tt2Aw1.0.2X.5DCgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8446 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:05:44 -0700 (PDT), vortex-l eskimo.com wrote: > At 04:11 PM 6/18/97 GMT, Peter wrote: > > >If it is possible to capture energy from the space, the reverse > >process is probably also possible..the energy which cannot be explained > >away in the frame of the known paradigm is actually simply discarded > >and goes back to the ZPE. > > That sounds OK to me, Peter. But the energy still has to leave the vicinity > of the experiment and radiate away into the ZPF. The most likely form for > this energy is photons, right? So, for the duration of this hour-long Not photons in these case, I think. These type of catalytic reactions are going on an other way..see e.g the theory of Randell Mills for a case I dare to consider similar. If the active sites are closed cavities as at Arata and at E-Quest (see please a fine new paper re. helium bubbles on Russ's webpage) ZPE induces nuclear reactions; if the sites are open channels, the catalytic and cavitational processes are not nuclear, or only in small extent. It has to be some process of direct energy transfer here. I am waiting for the essential problems be taken globally and seriously..at Vortex and elsewhere because it is more and more obvious that old theory and new unexpected (that is epistemologically normal!!) data do not go together. I wish you success with the new Ragland experiment! Peter -- dr. Peter Gluck Institute of Isotopic and Molecular Technology Fax:064-420042 Cluj-Napoca, str. Donath 65-103, P.O.Box 700 Tel:064-184037/144 Cluj 5, 3400 Romania Home: 064-174976 E-mail: peter itim.org.soroscj.ro , peterg@oc1.itim-cj.ro From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 23:12:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA03671; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:06:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:06:35 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970619060638.006760bc sparc1> X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:06:38 +0900 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Elliot Kennel Subject: CETI Radioactivity Resent-Message-ID: <"tk7aM2.0.Hv.gnCgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8447 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Barry Merriman took a stab at trying to calculate what the CETI detector might have seen. I calculated the numbers quite differently than Barry did, but the answers greatly reinforce his basic idea that the experiment could be easily accomplished by plating out uranium on the cathode or elsewhere in the system. First, what is being seen? If I read my Japanese isotope handbook correctly, the decay chain goes as follows: U-238 --> alpha --> Th-234 --> beta --> Pa-234--> beta --> U-234 --> alpha --> Th-230 --> alpha --> Ra-226 Most of the time these reactions occur without a gamma being produced, though Pa-234 will emit a gamma (actually in the hard x-ray regime) at 92 keV 2.5% of the time and 62 keV 1.8% of the time. There might be some stuff from fission products, but the bulk of the activity will be alpha and beta rather than gamma. The point is that the total activity is going to be about 5 times the U-238 decay rate, with a gamma associated with the decay maybe 1% of the time. BTW, I'm also not sure how much long-lived U-234 would really be present in equilibrium concentrations in depleted uranium, but it doesn't really matter. The total activity per mol is 1.5e8 disintegrations/sec, of which alpha = ~9e7 d/sec and beta = ~6e7 d/sec ,with gamma = ~ 1.5e6 d/sec. Most of the beta energies are around 100-200 keV, which would not penetrate to the detector. However, Pa-234m has a beta of 2.2 MeV which is emitted in about 71% of the decay chains. I think this is about the only thing you would have a chance of seeing (thus beta activity of Pa-234m = ~2.1e7 betas/sec per mol of U-238). At this energy the shielding coefficient is about 7 cm^2/gm (Knoll, Radiation Detection and Measurement 2nd Ed p. 48). I don't know what is containing the working fluid in CETI's cell. Suppose it is 2 mm of teflon or some other material with a density of around 1.0. Then the transmission is I/Io = exp (-7*0.2*1.0) = 25%. So you get significant attenuation from a few mm of nylon or self-shielding from the working fluid itself for that matter. So you can only look at the containing walls plus a few millimeters deep into the fluid. There is also a geometric factor to account for how many betas emitted are travelling in the right direction to strike the detector, and this obviously can be no greater than one half. Anyway, assuming the 5 counts per second number is right, and maybe 3 counts per second are due to the uranium (background has to be at least a few counts per second in this cheap detector). Then the actual number of disintegrations is between 24 and infinity, depending upon the geometry. The amount of uranium required to produce a signal is thus 24/2e7 = 1.2e-6 mols = ~300 micrograms (this is only a factor of a thousand off from the previously posted estimate, but what's three orders of magnitude among friends?). If the detector has 5 cm^2 area is able to look into ~2 mm deep of fluid, the solution would need to contain around 1.2e-6 mols/1.0 ml or 1.2e-3 mol per liter of solution. I don't know how much solution is in the system, but anyway this is a pretty weak solution and not much uranium is needed. Is anybody able to show that such a quantity of U would NOT plate out on the cathode? Another interpretation is that you don't need much uranium to show an effect, and conversely you don't need to plate much out on the cathode to kill it. In short, the demo inspires zero confidence, and we are left to totally rely upon the personal credibity of the proponents of the demonstration. Best regards, Elliot Kennel Sapporo Japan From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 18 23:31:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA10604; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A8D3DE.2129 loc1.tandem.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:38:22 -0700 From: Bob Horst Reply-To: bhorst loc1.tandem.com Organization: Tandem Computers Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Attempt at a new type of RMOD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"78IAU2.0.Pb2.e7Dgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8448 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Last weekend, I attempted to build a Rotating OU Device of my own design. Unfortunately it shows no signs of OU, so I am giving up -- maybe this will be of some help to others, at least giving you one idea not to try. The idea for the device is as follows. Think of a ramp bent downward over a cylinder. The ball would take a circular path, and the magnets would be arranged on either side along the path of the ball. At the point of the "blue hole", I simulate the relative motion of a ball falling off a ramp by allowing the ball to continue in the circular path, but positioning the last magnet in a curve in the opposite direction. Think of the magnets in parallel S shapes, with one curve fitting the circular path of the ball, and the other bending away from that curve. Once the ball travels in a circular path, it can be attached to a wheel, and multiple balls embedded in the wheel to give the effective power of multiple ramps per revolution. It would also be possible to position multiple magents assemblies around the wheel to further increase power. To test the concept, I built a wheel with a pair of 6 inch diameter plexiglass disks mounted on an axle with a bearing assembly purchased at a skateboard shop ($1.50 each). Three lines are drawn from the center of the disks to the outside, spaced 120 degrees apart. Near the outside of the disks a small hole is drilled at each of the three lines. This allows three 3/4 inch ball bearings to be equally spaced around the perimeter. Three screws pull the two disks together, holding the ball bearings in place. With no magnet assemblies, a small push will make the disk spin for about a minute before stopping. The disk can be mounted vertically or horizontally. For magnet assemblies, I used the Blanton-style 4-magnet long parallel ramps. I built some wooden fixtures with screw adjustments to allow each magnet to be positioned individually. I can change the curve formed by the magnets, and the spacing between the magnet assemblies. I can also adjust the orientation of the magnet assembly pair relative to the disk. There are lots of adjustments possible, yet it is all very solid. In operation, it gives no signs of OU. I have tried varying all the magnet positions many ways. I have also tried straight "Watson" style angled ramps, and have tried both weak and strong magnets. I also tried replacing the ball bearings with magnets, trying both orientations (attracting or repelling the magnet assemblies). This gives the most entertaining behavior. The wheel rotates for about 30 seconds, gradually slowing, then it looks like it is about to stop but often gets one last kick before going into a long sequence of decaying oscillations. But it ends up just a good demo of conservation of energy. There seems to be no difference between vertical or horizontal orientation either. I do not have a way to give it a calibrated push to get it started. To the limits of my abilities to push it consistantly, it takes about the same amount of time to stop with or without the magnets. But with the magnets, about half the time is in rotation, and the other half oscillating back and forth once it is not going fast enough to escape the last magnet. There is no way to judge if a) my approach is fundamentally flawed, b) I have too much friction, or c) I just never found the magic adjustment point. I purchased some of the magnetic film (from Edmund Scientific) to help see the magnetic field lines, but it was really not much help. So, it looks like my attempt at fame and fortune are down the drain. Please spare me the comments about not following Greg's step-by-step directions. You could say that this approach was just not very SMOT. -- Bob Horst From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 00:03:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA11806; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:02:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:02:02 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 03:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970619030115_-260926328 emout16.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: hamdix verisoft.com.tr Subject: Re : Netscape bug Resent-Message-ID: <"WJJaJ3.0.Lu2.gbDgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8449 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 19/06/1997 07:47:11 , Hamdi Ucar wrote : << Ok, I got the SMOT Mk II Beta 1, Thank you Greg. Still I trying to scale up the design according my big magnet size. Regards, Hamdi Ucar >> Hi Hamdi, We use the same magnets size (40x25x10 mm anisotrop ceramic magnets) , look at my web site for the appropriated size of the SMOT V 2.0.... Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 00:03:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA11932; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:02:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:02:32 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 03:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970619030107_556444423 emout12.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: gwatson microtronics.com.au, 72240.1256@compuserve.com Subject: Re : "Rollaway" definition Resent-Message-ID: <"eMqH4.0.Kw2.7cDgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8450 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 19/06/1997 01:21:43 , Jed Rothwell wrote : << JEAN-LOUIS: In your home page movie, does the ball ever drop to a level below the starting point? When it rolls out of the picture, is it level with or below the starting point? From the drawing, I think it ends up 3 mm below the starting point. I asked you this before, and so did some other people. - Jed >> Hi Jed and All, Yes, Jed, I have already sent the result of my rollaway tests ( 7 june 97, you will find a copy of this msg of this email) with some comments about the end level output. I have also put at the beginning of my test report "WARNING : This Rollaway experiment is performed with the exit of the railroad track at a level of 2 mm BELOW the entry level of the ramp, this implies that the N-gauge exit track is sloping downhill........" Today, I have a good new.... I have experimented the SMOT V2.0, It works well, the ball run smoothly with less acceleration than the mark 1 but more continous speed, the drop seems better, and the best thing is that the adjustements are very easy. Yesterday, also, we ( the Naudin's family...) have succeed in three SMOT linking tests...... You will find all videos and pictures about the SMOT V2 and about "the three SMOTs linking test" in my web site at : http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/smotidx.htm Today, I work on the RMOD device ( the schemes and pictures are in my web server ) and I hope that I shall finish the testing soon...... Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------- << Suj : Bad news about my rollaway test :-( Date : 07/06/1997 A : vortex-l eskimo.com On 06/06/1997 03:23:49 , Epitaxy wrote : << I would like to see how much above the table is the entry track and also would like to be able to see if the level of the entry track is equal/less than the lowest point of the rollaway track. I am sure others will have the same questions. >> Hi Epitaxy, Scott, Craig, Greg and all SMOT'ters The rollaway testing give me headaches.....grrrrr, >:-( Today, I am not able to reproduce correctly my previous rollaway setup ( the 5 june experiment with the SMOT v1.03 ), the only working rollaway test that I am able to do is an N-gauge track exit 2 mm BELOW the level of the SMOT ramp input....... The adjustments of the two short ramps is very very accurate ( because of the strong gradient...) and give me some headaches..... The closed loop experiment is put off until another time !!!! I have updated my web with these informations.... GREG, PLEASE......, POST US SOME PICTURES OF YOUR SMOTS SETUP IN CLOSED LOOP.......If you don't have a video capture board in your PC, you can take pictures with a simple camera and ask for processing your pictures on a KODAK CD-ROM. With this mean, you will be able to send us your SMOTs running setup on wonderfull JPEG pictures...... Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 >> From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 00:04:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA12074; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:03:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:03:13 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 03:01:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970619030108_781664391 emout13.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: gwatson microtronics.com.au Subject: 3 SMOTs linked - Test passed Resent-Message-ID: <"ehJwv3.0.Zy2.mcDgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8451 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 19/06/1997 02:34:00 , Greg wrote : << So far 3 others have reported success at rollaways. One has reported a 6 loop rollaround. Getting interested??????? -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ >> Hi Greg and all SMOT'ters, Today, I have a good new.... I have experimented the SMOT V2.0, It works well, the ball run smoothly with less acceleration than the mark 1 but more continous speed, the drop seems better, and the best thing is that the adjustements are very easy. Yesterday, also, we ( the Naudin's family...) have succeed in three SMOT linking tests...... You will find all videos and pictures about the SMOT V2 and about "the three SMOTs linking test" in my web site at : http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/smotidx.htm Today, I work on the RMOD device ( the schemes and pictures are in my web server ) and I hope that I shall finish the testing soon...... GREG : Have you some videos or pictures about the 6 loop rollaround test ? Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 00:05:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA14448; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:04:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re:Hot Fusion Fraud ( Hearing voices not unusual) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:02:40 +0000 Message-ID: <19970619070238.AAA27160 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"-TuAa1.0.cX3.gdDgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8452 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:42 AM 6/19/97 +0000, Barry Merriman wrote: >Gene wrote: >> > >> >> It [Hot Fusion] not a stupid mistake. >> It is fraud, plain and simple. The fraud >> escalates with each passing year. The MIT PFC is into at least $200 >> million fraud -- and rising. >> >> Gene > >It sounds like you are saying the founding fathers of fusion energy >research---teller, sakarov, Spitzer, Rosenbluth, Dawson, etc >all knew back in the 1960's that it would never work, >but decided to perpetrate a huge fraud on the populace to >extract money. Edward Teller on fusion power 1947; "Only a small fraction, less than one-hundredth of 1%, of the originally fast particles get close enough to an atomic nucleus to produce a nuclear reaction. Considering the exceedingly high cost of the original source of energy, the actual slight energy production should not be considered as a practical source of power." U.S. Senator, Peter V. Domenici, ca. 1975; " Although fusion energy power doesn't square with known physics, given the present World energy situation a research effort should continue to be be pursued. There may be a light at the end of the tunnel." :-) > >Fraud implies foreknowledge and intent. Can you tell us >exactly who it was who had this knowledge and intent? I doubt >it was anyone at all, in fact. Simple fact is that hot fusion >turns out to be harder and more expensive than anyone originally >estimated it to be. Since when is that fraud? Lying by omission? :-) Regards, Frederick > > >-- >Barry Merriman >Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program >Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math >email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 00:24:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA14439; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:20:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:20:15 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Hot Fusion Fraud (Hearing voices not unusual) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:19:54 +0000 Message-ID: <19970619071952.AAA418 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"YDLmY2.0.XX3.ksDgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8453 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:47 AM 6/19/97 +0000, Barry Merriman wrote: >Robert Stirniman wrote: >> > >> Billions in public science money has been burnt at the stake by >> tenured scientists, and we have received literaly nothing in return. > >You have a strange accounting system if you really believe that. >Do you think those dollars just slipped into the aether? At >worst they cycled through the economy. So do other forms of welfare checks and food stamps. :-) > >What you are trying to say is you did not receive a >fusion power plant *yet*. But this is the concept of >investment. You get the money back when the investment >pays off. You are saying the investment will never pay >off---that is a prediction, not a fact. I predict it >will pay off, and my prediction I think is in greater >accord with the reality of fusion research. Gonna have to start returning those Publishers Clearinghouse Sweeps coupons,maybe? > > >Note to Chris: you are troubled by the simplistic opinions >held by educated people. I am troubled only by the way >people see what they want to see rather than what is really there. Gee, that sounds familiar, fits Hot Fusion to a *T*. As many former Hot Fusion scientists that I know (Ed Storms included) will agree on. Seems that as soon as those guys got their retirement checks, they open up on how much of a farce Hot Fusion was/is. :-) > > >-- >Barry Merriman >Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program >Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math >email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 00:40:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA17291; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:36:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:36:23 -0700 From: ehammond pacbell.net Message-ID: <33A8E1D4.60C3 pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:37:56 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-PBME (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hearing voices not unusual References: <970619031951_76570.2270_FHU56-1 CompuServe.COM> <33A8AABD.F3E@math.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7ZCa63.0.-D4.s5Egp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8454 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It seems that the people who listen to the voices may be at least if not more useful to society then the people who do nothing but doubt. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 00:56:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA19721; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:55:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:55:19 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:54:00 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Cincinatti RR (fwd) Resent-Message-ID: <"ZgZEB.0.3q4.cNEgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8455 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 2:03 PM 6/18/97, Martin Sevior wrote: >On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Horace Heffner wrote: >> >> >> If an instantaneous quantum waveform collapse mechanism exists that >> preferentially eliminates unstable products, then there likely will be *no* >> neutrons produced at all, due to the fact that neutrons themselves are >> highly unstable. This of course would be changed if impinging particles >> inducing the collapse contain sufficient energy to produce unstabel >> daughter productr via normal interation mechanisms. Much of this was >> discussed in Jan regarding my Bose Condensate Hypothesis of CF. >> > >What happens to the 34 neutrons left over after U238 breaks up into 3 >Cu-65's? > >Martin Sevior It seems really unlikely such a 3 Cu-65 product reaction would occur, doesn't it? It also seems unlikely many of the neutrons convert to protons, because the chemical thermal effects would be too readily noticed. Also, to put most of the kinetic energy into the neutrinos from decayed neutrons, the masses of the products would need to be high. However, there may be some helium produced? Too early to speculate (didn't stop me though did it?) since there is no data available yet - especially about possible input and output gasseous products. The original thought remains obvious though, that if there is an instantaneous waveform collapse mechanism involved that, in effect, produces the results of a nearly infinite duration process, i.e. stable products, then free neutrons can not possibly be products. It is also true that such a process, if it indeed is a process and yet occurs in zero time, must take place in dimensions not observable in our 4 "visible" dimensions which are the domain of EM forces, thus it is very possible that neither the energy nor mass products of such a "reaction" are conserved within our visible dimensions. I think this could possibly relate to the notion of poximity, or the distance function. Two points with a very large distance in a projection (i.e. in a 3D or 4D projection) can be adjacent in a larger dimensional non-euclidean space. Entropy then takes on a different interpretation when the higher dimensionality is taken into acocunt. Energy might be spread all over, or obtained from all over, the universe in such an event. This then leaves the question as to why such higher dimensional processes don't normally occur during typical two particle wavefunction collapse events. Enough baloney yet? Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 01:09:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA20680; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:06:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:06:49 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:05:31 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: USA Today17/ June reports giant UFO flies over Pheonix Az USA Resent-Message-ID: <"KWh1c2.0.135.OYEgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8456 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 2:44 PM 6/18/97, Barry Merriman wrote: >Horace Heffner wrote: >> > >> >> If it's for real it seems on topic to me. A craft 1 mi. long floating >> along at 30 mi/hr. sounds like fairly good evidence > >Uh...where did this "craft" go? I did say "If it's for real..." didn't I? Saying "If A then B" is not the same as saying "A". If I had to guess I'd say Area 51. >I think our jets---or >a bicycle---would be able to track it fairly well. >-- >Barry Merriman Didn't it zip out of sight to the south after the 3 hours? A similar large chevron shaped craft was sighted in NY state (Long Island?) some months back as well. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 01:22:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA21937; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:20:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Full Moon Near! Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:19:02 +0000 Message-ID: <19970619081900.AAA13992 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"JYIMY1.0.hM5.DlEgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8457 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Vortex: Feel those "confrontational" juices flowing, folks? Things should mellow out by this time next week after the Summer Solstice-Full Moon radiation flux diminishes. :-) That old pineal gland is still doing it's job. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 02:06:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA26773; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:05:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:05:01 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: "Excess" Neutrons of the elements. Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:04:25 +0000 Message-ID: <19970619090423.AAA3027 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"0qO9t1.0.BY6.yOFgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8458 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Vortex: Figuring a 1:1 neutron-proton ratio as the most stable for any element the inventory using the values given in the periodic chart, rounded to the closest number using (A - 2*Z): U 54, Th 52, Bi 43, Pb 43, Hg 41, Au 39, Pt 39, W 36, Ta 35, Ba 25, Cs 23, I 21, Sn 19, Cd 16, Ag 14, Pd 14, Mo 12, Nb 11, Zr 11, Sr 12, Br 10, Ga 8, Zn 5, Cu 6, Ni 3, Co 5, Fe 4, Mn 5, Cr 4, V 5, Ti 4, Ca 0, K 1, Ar 4, Cl 1, Si 0, Al 1, Mg 0, Na 1, C 0, B 1, Be 1, Li 1, That supernova sure can make endoergic elements, can't it? Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 02:51:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA00012; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:49:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:49:48 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:49:24 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970619174949.2da764a4 po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8 po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: mpower consultants Subject: Re:Hot Fusion Fraud ( Hearing voices not unusual) Resent-Message-ID: <"9iLzY2.0.-_7.x2Ggp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8459 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick J. Sparber posted the following (edited for brevity) at 07:02 1997.06.19 +0000: >At 03:42 AM 6/19/97 +0000, Barry Merriman wrote: >>Gene wrote: >>> It [Hot Fusion] not a stupid mistake. >>> It is fraud, plain and simple. The fraud >>> escalates with each passing year. The MIT PFC is into at least $200 >>> million fraud -- and rising. >> >> >>Fraud implies foreknowledge and intent. Can you tell us >>exactly who it was who had this knowledge and intent? I doubt >>it was anyone at all, in fact. Simple fact is that hot fusion >>turns out to be harder and more expensive than anyone originally >>estimated it to be. Since when is that fraud? > >Lying by omission? :-) > Lighten up, dudes: ........... this is *not* sci.phy.fuss MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM * http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 * (-latest update: 1997.06.10.12:30-) ***************************************************** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 04:48:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA06307; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 04:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 04:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: 19 Jun 97 07:45:07 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Cincinatti RR Message-ID: <970619114507_100433.1541_BHG74-3 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"8OdZv2.0.TY1.-mHgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8461 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott, > I'm just asking why the energy is apparently not released, Chris. > The question is not a demand that present physics explain this > phenomena...just my first step into understanding the new physics. > Do you think the new physics might allow the disappearance of > this energy? I simply don't know. My comment was more an effort at logic than at science. Presumably the "quantum vacuum" could absorb the energy, but my point is that to talk about the energy release makes assumptions about what is happening. If the process involves some kind of multi- atom "condensate," then we would start will a whole collection of atoms of different elements, and end with the collapse of the condensate into a new set. Working out the mass-energy balance from that would be very difficult anyway, and it wouldn't be a "nuclear" reaction as such. And talking about Th atoms "being converted into Ti and Cu atoms" would be quite irrelevant. > Fred S suggests that neutrinos could be carrying the energy away > safely in 90-200 MeV chunks. Is this plausible? Well, not (to me) probable. First, it is based on the assumption I comment on above - that we have a mass-energy problem anyway. Second, I'd say that lab processes *might* be expected to have some kind of counterpart in nature. In that case, these violent neutrino sources would be everywhere, I think. Third, he's only tackling ONE of the problems - he doesn't mention the fact that if these reactions get started at all, then that *requires* new physics anyway. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 04:48:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA06293; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 04:47:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 04:47:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: 19 Jun 97 07:45:05 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Hearing voices not unusual Message-ID: <970619114505_100433.1541_BHG74-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"p0gg72.0.DY1.ymHgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8460 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry, > You have a strange accounting system if you really believe that. > Do you think those dollars just slipped into the aether? At worst > they cycled through the economy. Hmm. From what I hear that's just about right - them slipping through the aether. It may be a scurrilous rumour put about by the CF gang, but last I heard there was a terrible fuss when Congress asked how much was spent on admininstration. The story goes that they were calling for ANY info, even stuff written on lunchtime napkins. That was back in around '94, I think, but Jed will have all the details... > Note to Chris: you are troubled by the simplistic opinions held by > educated people. I am troubled only by the way people see what > they want to see rather than what is really there. You want to give examples of me kidding myself? You may be able to do that, and if so I'd welcome them. Gotta maintain mental discipline. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 04:48:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA06325; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 04:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 04:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: 19 Jun 97 07:45:03 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Cincinnati RR and Water Anomalies. Message-ID: <970619114503_100433.1541_BHG74-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"HXMeq1.0.jY1.1nHgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8462 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Terry, > I see you're going to try the wedge magnet design. I guess that > Greg's endorsement carried more weight than when I tried to get > you to do it. I tried to get everyone to try this with my very > first SMOT post. You could have saved yourself a lot of time and > trouble. No one listens to a crackpot Ufology nut, I guess. > Rubbish. Obviously quite a few people have listened to you - including Jed and Greg and me. But I had to go for the basic design first, because otherwise I'd end up trying everything in sight. Now that your array design has been developed by Greg into something very clear, I'm going for it. Look, your idea has become part of the design - and that can't really be said for anyone else except Greg. And you are complaining? Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 04:57:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA13333; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 04:57:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 04:57:00 -0700 Message-ID: <33A91D0C.B9BC530F microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:20:36 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: SMOT Orders Confirmation X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Tmdcz.0.FG3.BwHgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8463 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Sorry to say, but my account wasn't setup to record senders details on inward TTs. This means that I have received money for SMOT kits, but don't know where it came from. This problem is NOW fixed. It wasn't meant to happen. Banks!!!!!!!! If you have wired / TTed money to me, could you please reply by private post with your details. I will match your replies with the deposits and get it all sorted out. I expect to start shipping SMOT Mk II kits by next weekend. The existing ramps have been modified and I have ordered new perspex bases. Good to see Jean-Louis has confirmed that the new setup requires very little adjustments. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 05:27:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA17648; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 05:26:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 05:26:28 -0700 Message-ID: <33A8DF07.3E0D ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:26:00 +0000 From: Craig Haynie Reply-To: ccHaynie ix.netcom.com.erp X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: A Confirming Closed-Loop SMOT??? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HURDh1.0.cJ4.pLIgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8464 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Epitaxy: Do I understand correctly, from reading your report on Greg Watson's page, that you've also achieved a complete closed-loop with your SMOT system, have rotated the device 90 degrees in 4 directions, have set the device up in several places over a 20 mile area, and have placed it on a soft surface to damped vibrations, and in all these cases, you get a Closed Loop??? If so, what is the maximum number of revolutions that you've achieved? What is the total time period of a revolution? What is the total track distance? Thanks, Craig Haynie From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 05:47:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA20837; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 05:45:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 05:45:36 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:45:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706191245.HAA11700 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Bass Report. Resent-Message-ID: <"IPjlE.0.V55.mdIgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8465 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 08:07 AM 6/19/97 GMT, Peter Glueck wrote: >Not photons in these case, I think..... >It has to be some process of direct energy transfer here. But, Peter, the ZPF is comprised of photons. Thus, it seems to me that the most direct energy transfer possible would occur if the experiment radiated energy away as photons. Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 06:00:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA16352; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 05:58:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 05:58:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:17:27 GMT From: "Peter Glueck" Message-ID: <33a9316b.itim itim.org.soroscj.ro> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: CETI Radioactivity Resent-Message-ID: <"e9OJp3.0.Q_3.ypIgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8466 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Elliot has raised the following question re. the CETI demonstration: > Is anybody able to show that such a quantity of U would NOT plate > out on the cathode? And he concludes with: > Another interpretation is that you don't need much uranium to show > an effect, and conversely you don't need to plate much out on the cathode to > kill it. In short, the demo inspires zero confidence, and we are left to > totally rely upon the personal credibity of the proponents of the demonstration. I think that to accept that Patterson and all his men are able to make such a terrible blunder...to forget about plating out..when they are specialists of metal plating..is the clear equivalent of saying that they are , very euphemistically told, more than naive. I will exclude this hypothesis from the start. My personal opinion is that like it or not, low energy nuclear processes are here and will stay with us for a long time. It's better to use and explain them than to explain them away. It became too risky, I daretosay. Peter -- dr. Peter Gluck Institute of Isotopic and Molecular Technology Fax:064-420042 Cluj-Napoca, str. Donath 65-103, P.O.Box 700 Tel:064-184037/144 Cluj 5, 3400 Romania Home: 064-174976 E-mail: peter itim.org.soroscj.ro , peterg@oc1.itim-cj.ro From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 06:03:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA17220; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:02:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:02:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: 19 Jun 97 08:59:45 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: That was the Supercolider Message-ID: <970619125945_72240.1256_EHB59-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"2t4YA3.0.-C4.atIgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8467 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex Chris Tinsley wrote: It may be a scurrilous rumour put about by the CF gang, but last I heard there was a terrible fuss when Congress asked how much was spent on administration. The story goes that they were calling for ANY info, even stuff written on lunchtime napkins. That was the Supercolider project, in Texas, not a hot fusion project. The description of the napkin came from a computer memo circulated at the lead contractor, University Research Association, Inc., and quoted in the Washington Post on September 6, 1993: We have probably spent $6 - 8 million since FY 93 began, but who knows? We will take coffee stained computer runs, old cocktail napkins, 10-key tapes, anything, just get us some cost information, please!!! [signed] - Still flying blind During Congressional hearings there were several unkind comments. "There has been a clear pattern of distortion of the facts" (Sherwood L. Boehlert, R-NY) "I just think they [DOE] didn't think the thing through and try to calculate costs. They just picked a number." (Dale Bumpers, D-Ark). There are not as many examples of out-and-out fraud in the hot fusion program, apart from the notorious MIT coverup of their positive cold fusion results. I would call it a pattern of mismanagement and deception of the U.S. Congress, the U.K. and Japanese Parliaments, and other government bodies stretching back 30 years or more. Year after year, in testimony scientists who knew that the technical difficulties precluded any realistic chance of making a working HF power reactor have told the governments that a working reactor is "twenty years ahead." Panels of experts convened at Los Alamos and elsewhere have concluded that HF will never be viable given our present knowledge and the present plans, and they have urged that the project be scrapped. These people are not the enemies of nuclear power: they say the money should be spent on advanced fission projects instead. But it goes on, year after year, as do many other useless government research projects. Chris has a letter from a high government official about HF which looks pretty culpable to me. As I recall, he nearly admits that HM Government does not expect ITER or any other HF project to lead to a practical form of energy. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 06:28:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA19835; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:22:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Cincinatti RR Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:21:16 +0000 Message-ID: <19970619132114.AAA19460 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"kADxJ2.0.rr4.ZAJgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8468 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:45 AM 6/19/97 +0000, Chris wrote: >Scott, > > > I'm just asking why the energy is apparently not released, Chris. > > The question is not a demand that present physics explain this > > phenomena...just my first step into understanding the new physics. > > Do you think the new physics might allow the disappearance of > > this energy? > > > Fred S suggests that neutrinos could be carrying the energy away > > safely in 90-200 MeV chunks. Is this plausible? > >Well, not (to me) probable. First, it is based on the assumption I >comment on above - that we have a mass-energy problem anyway. Second, >I'd say that lab processes *might* be expected to have some kind of >counterpart in nature. In that case, these violent neutrino sources >would be everywhere, I think. Third, he's only tackling ONE of the >problems - he doesn't mention the fact that if these reactions get >started at all, then that *requires* new physics anyway. I would say that the Solar-Cygnus X-3-Supernova, neutrino emissions are good examples of a "counterpart in nature", and they are about everywhere, possibly "creating" 75% of the "matter" in the universe as "Dark Matter". As to the vacuum absorbing the generated energy, it does so very well with the laws of entropy with all that "starlight" we see ending up as 3 K background radiation. :-) If Randy Mills' "Hydrino", and/or the P&F-Ceti cells are getting things started by getting the protons-deuterons over the coulomb barrier and concurrently "plating" the radioactive cations and loading hydrogen into the cathodes, you have a veritable controllable fusion reactor and RR furnace going. To me, "New Physics" need not be invoked to explain New Technology. :-) Regards, Frederick > >Chris > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 06:31:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA31090; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:29:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:29:25 -0700 Message-ID: <33A92D6A.65DE361 microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:30:26 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: Re: Attempt at a new type of RMOD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <33A8D3DE.2129 loc1.tandem.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lVwHF2.0.ra7.lGJgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8469 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bob Horst wrote: > > Last weekend, I attempted to build a Rotating OU Device of my own > design. Unfortunately it shows no signs of OU, so I am giving up -- > maybe this will be of some help to others, at least giving you one > idea > not to try. > > The idea for the device is as follows. Think of a ramp bent downward > over a cylinder. The ball would take a circular path, and the magnets > would be arranged on either side along the path of the ball. At the > point of the "blue hole", I simulate the relative motion of a ball > falling off a ramp by allowing the ball to continue in the circular > path, but positioning the last magnet in a curve in the opposite > direction. Think of the magnets in parallel S shapes, with one curve > fitting the circular path of the ball, and the other bending away from > that curve. Once the ball travels in a circular path, it can be > attached to a wheel, and multiple balls embedded in the wheel to give > the effective power of multiple ramps per revolution. It would also > be > possible to position multiple magents assemblies around the wheel to > further increase power. > > To test the concept, I built a wheel with a pair of 6 inch diameter > plexiglass disks mounted on an axle with a bearing assembly purchased > at > a skateboard shop ($1.50 each). Three lines are drawn from the center > of the disks to the outside, spaced 120 degrees apart. Near the > outside > of the disks a small hole is drilled at each of the three lines. This > allows three 3/4 inch ball bearings to be equally spaced around the > perimeter. Three screws pull the two disks together, holding the ball > bearings in place. With no magnet assemblies, a small push will make > the disk spin for about a minute before stopping. The disk can be > mounted vertically or horizontally. > > For magnet assemblies, I used the Blanton-style 4-magnet long parallel > ramps. I built some wooden fixtures with screw adjustments to allow > each magnet to be positioned individually. I can change the curve > formed by the magnets, and the spacing between the magnet assemblies. > I > can also adjust the orientation of the magnet assembly pair relative > to > the disk. There are lots of adjustments possible, yet it is all very > solid. > > In operation, it gives no signs of OU. I have tried varying all the > magnet positions many ways. I have also tried straight "Watson" style > angled ramps, and have tried both weak and strong magnets. > > I also tried replacing the ball bearings with magnets, trying both > orientations (attracting or repelling the magnet assemblies). This > gives the most entertaining behavior. The wheel rotates for about 30 > seconds, gradually slowing, then it looks like it is about to stop but > often gets one last kick before going into a long sequence of decaying > oscillations. But it ends up just a good demo of conservation of > energy. There seems to be no difference between vertical or > horizontal > orientation either. > > I do not have a way to give it a calibrated push to get it started. > To > the limits of my abilities to push it consistantly, it takes about the > same amount of time to stop with or without the magnets. But with the > magnets, about half the time is in rotation, and the other half > oscillating back and forth once it is not going fast enough to escape > the last magnet. > > There is no way to judge if a) my approach is fundamentally flawed, b) > I > have too much friction, or c) I just never found the magic adjustment > point. I purchased some of the magnetic film (from Edmund Scientific) > to > help see the magnetic field lines, but it was really not much help. > > So, it looks like my attempt at fame and fortune are down the drain. > Please spare me the comments about not following Greg's step-by-step > directions. You could say that this approach was just not very SMOT. > > -- Bob Horst Hi Bob, I to have tried something similiar. It didn't work. The only way I have been able to get rotary operation is by the method shown on my site. Maybe there is something in the gravity shielding as suggested by some. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 06:31:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA31217; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:29:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:29:43 -0700 Message-ID: <33A92E67.8BEB80B0 microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:34:39 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: List Server Freenrg Subject: Re: Phase 5 not reached? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <970618214218_72240.1256_EHB88-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SFcVP3.0.Eb7.mGJgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8470 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > > To: Vortex > > Greg's home page has messages like: Its not my site. > Sorry... Phase 5 is not yet reached! > > That's http://home.worldonline.nl/~catware/phase5.html. Phase five is > when the ball goes around and around without stopping. > > Greg: does this mean your home page is not finished? Or does it mean > you have never achieved Phase 5, and you retract your earlier claims?!? I have achieved a rollaround as claimed. Epitaxy has olso now reported a rollaround. > The home page also says phases 3 and 4 have not been reached. I don't > get it. > > - Jed HI Jed, Check out my site for the latest reported test results. Epitaxy's report is there. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 06:34:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA31175; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:29:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:29:39 -0700 Message-ID: <33A9312E.199F1BC3 microtronics.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:46:30 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: Re: "Rollaway" definition X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <970618200029_72240.1256_EHB86-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bD4ZT2.0.Mc7.tGJgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8471 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > > GREG: I know you are busy, but please tell us: > > 1. Are you sure your SMOT Mk II exit ramp is level or slightly above the > entrance ramp? Yes. > 2. Have you removed the magnets and placed the ball on the exit track to see > if it rolls away? Have you tried giving the exit track a slight bias back > towards the ramp? Yes. Jed I jave been doing his for quite a lot of time now. I have posted many previous times on my test setup. > 3. Have you tried it with the exit ramp slightly above the entrance, > say 1 mm? No. My design goal with the SMOT Mk II ramp is a simple to adjust lift and drop ramp which can do a small rollaway. > 4. How far away does the ball roll? The average rollaway is approx 150mm. Not much, I admit. > JEAN-LOUIS: > > In your home page movie, does the ball ever drop to a level below the starting > point? When it rolls out of the picture, is it level with or below the > starting point? From the drawing, I think it ends up 3 mm below the starting > point. I asked you this before, and so did some other people. > > - Jed Hi Jed, If you checkout Jean-Louis's site you will see his qualifications on the rollaway test he did on the Mk I ramps. If you checkout my site, you will see two reports of increased height rollaways. You will also be able to read Epitaxy's report on his multi circuit rollaround results. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 06:43:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA23727; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:41:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:41:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:06:38 GMT From: "Peter Glueck" Message-ID: <33a93cf3.itim itim.org.soroscj.ro> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bass Report. Resent-Message-ID: <"QaJDj2.0.do5.oRJgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8472 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 19 Jun 1997 05:45:36 -0700, vortex-l eskimo.com wrote: > But, Peter, the ZPF is comprised of photons. Thus, it seems to me that the > most direct energy transfer possible would occur if the experiment radiated > energy away as photons. Which kind of photons? Real? Virtual? Why we cannot "see" them like the usual photons? And if energy is transferred via "good-bye photons" these will not be observed by our instruments or even via their putative effects. They simply go away and we have an entirely new, athermal fission leading to stable isotopes. It is not easy to accept but the data are coming and coming.. I have few certainties re. space energy except its existence and its harnessability. But I am certain that it is impossible to be simultaneously outside and inside our good old paradigm. It's "good-bye paradigm" time. Peter -- dr. Peter Gluck Institute of Isotopic and Molecular Technology Fax:064-420042 Cluj-Napoca, str. Donath 65-103, P.O.Box 700 Tel:064-184037/144 Cluj 5, 3400 Romania Home: 064-174976 E-mail: peter itim.org.soroscj.ro , peterg@oc1.itim-cj.ro From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 07:19:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA29118; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: 19 Jun 97 10:13:53 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: That was the Supercolider Message-ID: <970619141352_100433.1541_BHG44-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"mG9_U2.0.s67.vzJgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8473 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jed, Ah, I got muddled between the SC and HF. > Chris has a letter from a high government official about HF which > looks pretty culpable to me. As I recall, he nearly admits that HM > Government does not expect ITER or any other HF project to lead to > a practical form of energy. The then UK Energy Minister. No, he doesn't "nearly admit," he says in the letter (it was to Norman Horwood of this group) that there is no prospect of any practical energy source coming out of fusion research. That implies the the UK funding of the Joint European Torus is in place simply to ensure the steady flow of Euro-cash - JET is on UK soil. Sort of like the enthusiasm of State Senators for Federal Big Science projects to be on their territory. Of course, in fairness, it should be said that his opinion may not be worth so very much. There must be plenty of examples of government minsisters talking nonsense, I imagine. Unusual for one to admit that his Department's major science effort is crap, though, innit? Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 07:52:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA04060; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:49:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Davis To: Barry Merriman Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 07:45:07 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <33A89DC0.5AD3 math.ucla.edu> X-Mailer: YAM 1.3.4 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck Organization: ROSHI Corporation Subject: Re: Hearing voices not unusual MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"3VEUc2.0.I_.yRKgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8474 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 18-Jun-97, Barry Merriman wrote: >Robert Stirniman wrote: >> >> Billions in public science money has been burnt at the stake by >> tenured scientists, and we have received literaly nothing in return. >You have a strange accounting system if you really believe that. >Do you think those dollars just slipped into the aether? At >worst they cycled through the economy. I think that I know better how to *recycle* my dollars much better than any government does. Government confiscation of wealth never works. >What you are trying to say is you did not receive a >fusion power plant *yet*. But this is the concept of >investment. You get the money back when the investment >pays off. You are saying the investment will never pay >off---that is a prediction, not a fact. I predict it >will pay off, and my prediction I think is in greater >accord with the reality of fusion research. Investment = Marxist/Socialist drivvle for TAXES! Spinoff = $5 trillions in Liberal "poverty pimp" national debt. >But, even if we accept your scenario---a viable hot fusion >reactor is never built---you still cannot say you >received "nothing" in return. You must instead calculate >the real return on that investment, which includes >many spinoff dividends related to plasma processing >(a multibillion dollar per year business, and growing rapidly, >heavily instrumented and staffed with equipment and people developed >in the hot fusion program), among other things. Notice the continued use of `investment' and `spinoff';) >I'm willing to bet that if an economist did a thorough accounting >of the return on investment in the hot fusion program, >that even if *no* credit is given for a future fusion reactor, >there would still be a net gain over if the same money >had simply been channeled into the average government >investments. There is nothing unique to hot fusion here---I think >the same is true of most massive high technology pushes...they >tend to spinoff plenty of useful stuff even if the main thrust >is a total wash. You can debate whether that is >the best conceivable way to use the money, but you can't >complain that you did not get a good return. ROTFLMAO. A `future' fusion reactor..... >I think the CF crowd would be better off putting their >own house in order than trying to inject disorder into >the house of hot fusion. The facts are simple: if CF >is real and works a'la' CETI, then yes, it will completely >eliminate the need for hot fusion in the near term (hundreds >of years...long term, still hard to predict). On the other >hand, it is equally true that if CF goes nowehere, hot >fusion will go forward and produce perfectly viable reactors >for the countries that are willing to pay for the development---and >the asian countries are all very interested in this, even if >the US has gone lukewarm, so it will happen. A little palladium wire and some heavy water will never = a tokamak :) >Personally: even though I work on hot fusion much of the time, >I want to win whichever approach is overall easier to achieve. >...May the best concept win is my attitude. I am simply troubled >by the question of whether CF ir "real" at all---its potential >technology implications are obvious and do not trouble me one bit. Of course it wouldn't... Might even last 'til retirement ;) >Note to Chris: you are troubled by the simplistic opinions >held by educated people. I am troubled only by the way >people see what they want to see rather than what is really there. Tenured = featherbed ;) >-- >Barry Merriman >Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program >Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math >email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry -- .-. .-. / \ .-. .-. / \ / \ / \ .-. _ .-. / \ / \ -/--Chuck Davis -------\-----/---\---/-\---/---\-----/-----\-------/-------\-- RoshiCorp ROSHI.com \ / \_/ `-' \ / \ / \ / `-' `-' \ / `-' `-' Sacred cows make great hamburger- Mark Twain From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 08:48:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA12648; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:39:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:39:41 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: < snip.net> From: "Mike Carrell" To: Subject: Beliefs, Fraud, and Money Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:36:50 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19970619153922718.AAA188 default> Resent-Message-ID: <"tM0YP1.0.X53.tALgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8475 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The recent announcements from the CETI and Cincinatti Group have stirred up a reprise of the whole CF controversy all over again. Let me strike a balance. There have been huge public expenditures on projects with no direct return. The whole Manhattan Project, the ICBM program, the Apollo project, did not put food on anyone's table and the funds could arguably have been better spent elsewhere. And, no, Apollo didn't put a zillion dollars on the moon, all funds went to support an army of high-tech people on earth, who bought hot-dogs and all the rest. Same for the hot fusion program. We all know this. The spin-offs have been tremendous, including the microectronics industry which enables among other things, vortex. It is also true (I think) that the costs of the whole Apollo program are comparable with what the US public spends annual on cosmetics, booze, and/or tobacco. Same for the hot fusion program. Fraud requires concious knowledge of deception. I will summarize what Gene Mallove has said publicly in several videotaped lectures and programs, and most recently, on the Art Bell show, namely that specific members of the faculty at MIT deliberately, in several stages, manipulated data from test runs which showed the excess heat signature from a Pons-Fleischmann cell to erase that signature in curves which were published under the MIT imprimatur and given to the Huizenga committee. This doctored data was then cited as proof of the non-existence of the PF effect, leading to an official conclusion and denial of funding, and cited by the US Patent Office in rejecting CF patent applications. Detailed analysis of the several curves shows no algorithm connecting the raw data to the final curve. It is legitimate to smooth noisy data, but every point in the source data should be treated with the same algorithm. Such was not done; data points were added and others removed. These specific acts constitute scientific fraud. They may have been done in the belief that the PF effect must be nonexistent and data to the contrary must be in error, but it is not honest to present fudged data in the high stakes circumstances. A belief system and large investments in prestige and careers were threatened. The consequences of this act are well known to vortex and have been discussed at length. The beliefs of people who initated the hot fusion program using the information available at the time, and who later contributed to it, were and are not fraudulant. To paraphrase Gene again, he has been careful to endorse plasma research as a valuable contribution ot human knowledge. It is appropriate to carefully examine every reported anomaly that challenges fundamental beliefs. Barry is useful to this community as the resident critic. One anomaly does not automatically anoint another anomaly. Neither do experimental confirmations of a theory automatically anoint the predictions of that theory regarding new experiments, but there are powerful human tendencies to do just that. The transmutation reports from CETI and the Cincinnati Group reinforce the earlier reports of Champion and Kevran, all pointing to serious exceptions to received opinion. Chris is right on in pointing out that we may have new physics that does not obey the familiar rules, so that all attempts to rationalize the experimental results will lead to frustration, and denial of the results. I have on several occasions pointed to the work of Harold Aspden, with the feeblest of responses from vortex. I may be the only one here who has made a serious attempt to read and understand Aspden's work. I confess difficulty with it, and may be out of my depth. But I do believe that his work is self-consistent, represents new thinking, and may offer a way of understanding not only the energy balance of the transmutation experiments, but the energy source of the SMOT devices. Mill's orbitsphere model may be a blind alley or another viable branch. His claims lie in the realm of chemistry (energy states of the electrons) and does not predict the transmutations (energy states of nucleons). Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 08:52:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA13965; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:46:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706191546.KAA28974 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: 2nd triode run update Resent-Message-ID: <"2QgPK2.0.4Q3.RILgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8476 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: We are now in hour 48 of the run. Charging started at hour 4.5 at current densities of 200/300 mA/cm^2. The two anodes are operated at currents which produce these two current densities on the cathode and the anodes are switched every 8 seconds. At hour 31.5, we doubled the current densities (to 400/600). This is the current density range where Ragland typically observed large excess heats. Presently the Pout/Pin ratio is 0.992 and the Eout/Ein ratio for the entire run is 0.991. Present stats: Inlet water temp 30.00 C Outlet water temp 31.49 C flow rate 0.850 gm/sec Dewar air temp (top) 34.47 C Electrolyte temp 41.53 C room temp 23.6 C Pin 5.69 w Pout 5.65 w anode 1 voltage 5.24/6.03 V anode 2 voltage 5.28/6.03 V current 400/600 mA (the cathode is 1 cm^2) Note how well balanced the anodes voltages are. Apparently the new anode clamping arrangement is holding the Pt screens flatter and positioning them more accurately than before. As in the first run, we are running a closed cell using Pd-coated alumina catalyst pellets from Alfa to recombine the D2 & O2 and they appear to be working perfectly (that is there is no sign of gas evolving from the cell). Now we wait for the CF effect to occur. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 09:08:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA01075; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:02:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:02:50 -0700 From: HLafonte aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970619120037_101572166 emout05.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: USA Today17/ June reports giant UFO flies over Pheonix Az USA Resent-Message-ID: <"GQ7b21.0.jG.gWLgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8477 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: What are lights on these craft? I have always wondered about that. Butch LaFonte From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 09:18:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA02948; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:11:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:11:36 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:11:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706191611.JAA28361 sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: A Confirming Closed-Loop SMOT??? Resent-Message-ID: <"HpKXy1.0.uj.teLgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8478 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Epitaxy, Craig Haynie had some good questions. I also have some questions: 1. What are the individual neo mag sizes? Mag stacking arrangement? 2. How did you make the 90 deg turn connections between the ramps? >From what you've said about the ball jumping off the track and sticking to the metal back plate, it sounds like what Greg, myself and others noticed. That the mag field strength is greater on the metal plate edges by a factor or 3 to 4 times greater. The ball is just seeking the greater mag field. Also the 1/8" steel backing plate seems to be saturated by the very strong neo magnets. Have you tried adding more metal backing plates to delute the mag field strenght at the plate edges? Congradulations! and thank you for sharing your research experiments. Thanks, Michael Randall At 07:26 AM 6/19/97 +0000, you wrote: >Epitaxy: > >Do I understand correctly, from reading your report on Greg Watson's >page, that you've also achieved a complete closed-loop with your SMOT >system, have rotated the device 90 degrees in 4 directions, have set the >device up in several places over a 20 mile area, and have placed it on a >soft surface to damped vibrations, and in all these cases, you get a >Closed Loop??? > >If so, what is the maximum number of revolutions that you've achieved? >What is the total time period of a revolution? What is the total track >distance? > >Thanks, > >Craig Haynie > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 09:33:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA21035; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:27:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Intended-For: Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970619092842.009ce930 aa.net> X-Sender: mwm aa.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:28:44 +0100 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Michael Mandeville Subject: The Day After Roswell - Off topic Mindblower Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"7wd6X1.0.b85.7uLgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8479 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Yeah, it's off topic but it's a mind blower. Phillip J. Corso, Col, US Army, Ret. "The Day After Roswell", pub date July 1997 just hit the shelves at Barnes & Noble. Corso claims that the (real) official explanation of Roswell is that an exceptionally nasty thunder storm gave a small group of Gray's a particularly nasty jolt at Roswell, causing them to lose control of their craft, hence it crashed. (Roswell, NM, 1947 or 48). claims he was the custodian of the U.S. Army's Roswell file for a long time and was the director of the program which diffused the Roswell saucer's technology into American industry, among which he cites the laser, the integrated circuit, and particle beam weapons (they were massively invested in because they knew that these concepts worked from artifacts found in the crash). talks matter of factly and details out his entire career in dealing with the Roswell program; talks matter of factly and in considerable detail about that the U.S. Army knew all about Tesla's final concepts (but could not create it) and also that the rumors about the moon astronauts encountering UFO phenomenon was quite true, that the UFO's "harassed" the entire program. claims the Reagan-Gorbachev reapproachment was not about ending the cold war but the engineering of a common front against ET, that the "Star Wars" program by Reagan was not just a cute take-off on the name of the movie. also hints that the U.S. military has particle beam weapons far beyond what anyone has imagined or guessed; that UFO's can now be easily destroyed (and asteroids pose no threat at all). he seems to indicate that they were not able to duplicate the power and drive technology of the saucer. Corso considers the "Grays" to be an hostile ET race, but does not really explain why. He simply seems to project it onto the Grays. Their "threat" seems to be that they are there, are non-communicative, have a different concept of territorial boundaries, and are very inquisitive. He also claims that the "secrecy program" never wanted to completely squelch the idea of UFO's because they wanted the ideas of advanced space technology and potential threat to be maintained to help rationalize their military and space budgets, but they wanted the phenomenon on the fringe sufficiently to prevent hysteria forcing overt political reactions. He implies that it no longer matters, that the U.S. military can now easily fend off an engagement with the Grey s. What is spine-chilling about the book is how matter of fact the book is. If this man is a fake, he is a pretty good "Pretender". Can anybody give me bearings on Corso? Is this part of the wall of the Paradigm Shift hitting us in the morning streets? Or is this just another new age con? gvorting in cyberland, Michael Wells Mandeville "Return of the Phoenix" at http://www.aa.net/~mwm/phoenix/phoenix.html From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 09:45:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA23346; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:40:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:40:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: X-Ray Neutrino Generation Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:38:57 +0000 Message-ID: <19970619163854.AAA15150 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"GlUYi1.0.di5.x3Mgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8480 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Vortex: Collision of electrons with a nucleus (as in an ordinary x-ray tube) can create neutrinos-antineutrinos of all sorts. This approach was considered as a calibration source for the neutrino experiments conducted miles beneath the surface of the Earth so as to minmize extraneous "noise". A truck-mounted gen set powering a portable industrial-strength x-ray machine located above ground would be suitable for generating neutrinos for checking out the neutrino detection apparatus located well below the surface with the earth, acting as a "filter" to screen out x-rays, but, transparent to the neutrinos. It is my understanding that a similar electron bombardment approach was used to "calibrate" the upgraded "Super-Kam" (Cerenkov-water) neutrino detector in Japan. When you are looking for one neutrino collision-interaction in 10^36 atoms/molecules of water/second with only a few thousand tonnes of water as a detector, you gotta use a bit of ingenuity. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 09:58:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA26217; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:52:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: USA Today17/ June reports giant UFO flies over Pheonix Az USA Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:50:47 +0000 Message-ID: <19970619165045.AAA19186 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"vS-lt.0.QP6.5FMgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8481 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:02 PM 6/19/97 +0000, HLafonte wrote: >What are lights on these craft? I have always wondered about that. >Butch LaFonte > On your typical antigrav current loop you have to have a way to dissipate the energy from the current flow same as the current through an electromagnet. The best way to get a lot of power dissipation is a "light bulb" that can dump this energy by heat radiation. You will note that most of the "UFO" reports speak of the lights changing colour. They should when such a craft is maneuvering. Either that or they are hunting Jack Rabbits. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 10:05:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA28495; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: 19 Jun 97 12:58:53 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: In defense of government spending Message-ID: <970619165852_72240.1256_EHB105-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"DV5rd.0.5z6.hNMgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8482 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex Chuck Davis comes out strongly against government research on technology: I think that I know better how to *recycle* my dollars much better than any government does. . . . Government confiscation of wealth never works. . . . Investment = Marxist/Socialist drivvle for TAXES! . . . Spinoff = $5 trillions in Liberal "poverty pimp" national debt. While I am sympathetic to this point of view, I must point out that it is oversimplified. Davis ignores history. The fact is, the U.S. and U.K. governments have played a leading role in research, technology, and infrastructure since the time of Henry VIII. Government intervention has been crucial to the development of the nation. In many cases it has been wildly successful beyond all anticipation. It has usually been controversial. Major successful government projects that took massive expenditures of tax funds and subsidies include: The Erie Canal. Delayed 34 years by people who opposed government, it began paying off substantially before it was half finished. Steam engines, particularly steamships in the 1840s, promoted with Royal Mail contracts. This caused great controversy because sailing ships were much more economical, practical and safe. Ocean going steamships required 10 to 20 years of government subsidies. Shipbuilding and navigation. Railroads, particularly the transcontinental railroad, which was considered a strategic necessity in the Civil War. Standard setting in every industry, in cooperation with industrial consortia. Hygiene, public health, sewers, water treatment, inoculation. Without strong government leadership we would still be mired in muck, and most children would still die of preventable diseases. At best we would still have to put up with stinking cesspools in every city and town. If you want to know what that is like, go visit Japan in July. Even in Tokyo, the stench can be enough to make you throw up. Technical safety standards in transportation, food preparation, medicine and thousands of other critical areas. Aviation, airports and air traffic control. Computer technology -- as everyone here surely knows. The interstate highway system, which was considered a strategic necessity in the cold war. Spaceflight and space-based telecommunications and weather forecasting. This saves thousands of lives and earns billions of dollars every year for corporations like CNN. OSHA regulations. As one contractor I know puts it, those regs are 99% common sense. We are talking about rules like: wear a safety line when you are 20 stories up on open girders; test for gas leaks before you go down the manhole; don't dig a ditch over your head without shoring up the sides. Hundreds of construction workers still die unnecessarily, buried in mud and sand from collapsed ditches including two adult brothers of a family on my street. The money spent on OSHA pays back hundreds of times over in insurance claims alone. The regs are frequently attacked by right wing commentators who have never read them and who know nothing about construction, factories, or other dangerous physical labor. . . . I could add dozens of similar examples. Governments have played a bigger role in France, Germany and Japan, but I think the British and American models have been the most successful. The reason is simple, and instructive. In successful projects, government has worked closely with private industry, with the enthusiastic support of private industry. After the technology is launched, private industry has usually takes over (and skims the cream off public investments). When there is no support from industry or from the taxpayers, government projects have often failed. I do not mean unified, across the board support, without controversy. The sailing ship industry fought the steamship subsidies. The diary industry fought pasteurization for 50 years. After the Titanic disaster, Congress moved to regulate North Atlantic shipping and to ensure that every ship carried enough lifeboats for all passengers and crew. This outraged the shipping industry and the British Board of Trade, whose ox was gored. They fought it at every step. They launched a world-wide press campaign to vilify Senator Smith, the man who led the investigation and drafted the legislation. To this day, most accounts of the disaster portray Smith as an interfering, know-nothing buffoon. Controversial legislation and government projects can succeed, but they must have a base of support somewhere in the industry they are designed to help. Some diary farmers saw the wisdom of pasteurization. Some captains and shipping company presidents agreed with Senator Smith. Hot fusion, needless to say, totally lacks any base of support. Energy is the biggest sector of the world economy. Energy companies spend tens of billions on R&D. Yet there is not a single private corporation or industry consortium anywhere on earth willing to invest even one dollar in hot fusion. Not one! That proves that industry experts consider it a lost cause. Some have told me they consider it a crackpot idea, much worse than cold fusion. EPRI gave up on hot fusion decades ago, and recommended the program be scrapped. The only corporations anxious to see it continue are the outside contractors that depend on it. They are not risking capital or planning to profit from a power reactor fifty years from now. As far as I am concerned, any government technology R&D program that cannot attract at least 50% private industrial capital -- money put at risk by investors -- should be scrapped. If EPRI or Exxon were willing to pay half the bill for ITER, I would be in favor of it, but you could not raise enough private capital to pay for the coffee in the ITER break room. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 10:52:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA24082; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:48:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:48:03 -0700 Date: 19 Jun 97 13:45:39 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: The Day After Roswell - Off topic Mindblower Message-ID: <970619174538_76016.2701_JHC53-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"4_0E82.0.Cu5.I3Ngp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8483 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Michael Wells Mandeville asks: >>Can anybody give me bearings on Corso?<< I don't want to annoy the septics here with my Ufological Scatology; so, check out: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/corso/ Corso was also involved in the Recovery of Korean MIA's and the Cuban Missile Crisis. His book includes a foreword character endorsement by Sen. Strom Thurmond (which may or may not be good ). BTW, this is one of the best web sites on the net for Ufology. Terry Blanton, Section Leader, MUFON on CompuServe (/go UFO) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 10:57:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA25568; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:55:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:55:15 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Scudder,Henry J" To: "Frederick J. Sparber" , Vortex-L Subject: RE: X-Ray Neutrino Generation Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:51:00 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2LjI33.0.MF6.2ANgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8484 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick I have worked with X-rays for many years and know of no theory or experiments that show neutrino generation. Could you give some references? What energy X-rays are you talking about. I just had an X-ray at the dentist this morning. Did I generate a lot of neutrinos with 70Kev x-rays? Hank Scudder ---------- From: Frederick J. Sparber To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: X-Ray Neutrino Generation Date: Thursday, June 19, 1997 9:38AM To Vortex: Collision of electrons with a nucleus (as in an ordinary x-ray tube) can create neutrinos-antineutrinos of all sorts. This approach was considered as a calibration source for the neutrino experiments conducted miles beneath the surface of the Earth so as to minmize extraneous "noise". A truck-mounted gen set powering a portable industrial-strength x-ray machine located above ground would be suitable for generating neutrinos for checking out the neutrino detection apparatus located well below the surface with the earth, acting as a "filter" to screen out x-rays, but, transparent to the neutrinos. It is my understanding that a similar electron bombardment approach was used to "calibrate" the upgraded "Super-Kam" (Cerenkov-water) neutrino detector in Japan. When you are looking for one neutrino collision-interaction in 10^36 atoms/molecules of water/second with only a few thousand tonnes of water as a detector, you gotta use a bit of ingenuity. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 11:17:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA08988; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:12:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:12:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Schaffer gav.gat.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970619165852_72240.1256_EHB105-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:13:39 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: In defense of government spending Resent-Message-ID: <"AEFoW3.0.JC2.vPNgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8485 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In defense of spending on fusion: Jed Rothwell wrote: [snip] >Hot fusion, needless to say, totally lacks any base of support. Energy is the >biggest sector of the world economy. Energy companies spend tens of billions >on R&D. Yet there is not a single private corporation or industry consortium >anywhere on earth willing to invest even one dollar in hot fusion. Not one! [snip] Not quite true. For many years fusion research at General Atomics was nurtured and supported by Gulf Oil, which owned us at that time. It is probably due to this far-sighted investment that GA is the leading private company in fusion research. Our closest competition, by the way, are Japanese companies--Hitachi and Mitsubishi. In the 1980s, Phillips Petroleum also worked closely with GA and Gulf on fusion research. However, the financial climate changed in the mid-late 1980s. Both Gulf and Phillips came under heavy pressure to show big short range profits for the stockholders, and long range investment of all sort evaporated. Today, no for-profit company can invest in long-range research; the changed financial market place will not allow it. The only way long range research can now be done in the USA is by public support. Fusion has to compete against many other research areas for scarce public funds. Michael J. Schaffer General Atomics, PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA Tel: 619-455-2841 Fax: 619-455-4156 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 11:17:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA29127; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:14:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:14:04 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:13:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706191813.LAA17892 guilder.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szdanq peseta.ucdavis.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Dan Quickert Subject: SMOT mag array design Cc: freenrg-l eskimo.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au Resent-Message-ID: <"4fuJn2.0.z67.gRNgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8486 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: >Terry, > > > I see you're going to try the wedge magnet design. I guess that > > Greg's endorsement carried more weight than when I tried to get > > you to do it. I tried to get everyone to try this with my very > > first SMOT post. You could have saved yourself a lot of time and > > trouble. No one listens to a crackpot Ufology nut, I guess. > > > >Rubbish. Obviously quite a few people have listened to you - including >Jed and Greg and me. But I had to go for the basic design first, >because otherwise I'd end up trying everything in sight. Now that your >array design has been developed by Greg into something very clear, I'm >going for it. Look, your idea has become part of the design - and that >can't really be said for anyone else except Greg. And you are >complaining? > >Chris > Pardon me, but since this has come up as an issue: I wasn't looking for credit on this, but if credit is being given, well... The magnet array configuration in question was first posted by me, on April 10, to Greg and his list. Greg, and others who were recipients, can perhaps verify that this is authentic. Michael Randall tried my setup on that same day, and posted positive results. (BTW, Michael was the first to report a working test of Greg's ramp). Here is a copy of my original message. It's a long post; I've snipped it and left only headers and the relevant sections: >---------- >From: Dan Quickert >Sent: Thursday, April 10, 1997 12:12 AM >To: 'gwatson microtronics.com.au' >Cc: 'epitaxy localaccess.com'; 'dequickert@ucdavis.edu'; 'catware worldonline.nl'; 'billb@eskimo.com'; 'harti@harti.com'; 'puthoff aol.com'; 'little@eden.com'; 'bshannon@tiac.net'; 'jnaudin509 aol.com'; 'mrandall@earthlink.net' >Subject: RE: Simple OU Device > >Hi Greg, > [snip] >Anyway it's some 3/8" aluminum U-channel, a bunch of Radio Shack square >ceramic magnets, a steel ball and masking tape. Varied spacing of the >magnets seemed not to work as well as just varying the field - first pair is 1 >magnet, second is 2 together, etc.; set with *no* spacing between them. Did >not stagger pairs (unlike the patent)(ref U.S. patent 4,215,330). The last pair >is not parallel. I must admit it took more than 10 minutes all told! > >The key to getting release at the end, at least for my primitive setup, was >to provide a guide to change the ball's forward momentum toward a downward >fall, rather than just letting it drop. [snip] >If your device is similar, have you tried putting one at right angles (or >whatever) to the output of the other, with a guide to help the ball make >the turn? > >Thanks, Greg, for being so open with this idea and its development. > >Dan Quickert > > and later that day, in response to Michael Randall's query: >--------- >From: Dan Quickert >Sent: Thursday, April 10, 1997 9:20 AM >To: 'Michael Randall' >Cc: epitaxy localaccess.com; catware@worldonline.nl; billb@eskimo.com; >harti harti.com; puthoff@aol.com; little@eden.com; bshannon@tiac.net; >jnaudin509 aol.com; gwatson@microtronics.com.au; 'dequickert@ucdavis.edu' >Subject: RE: Simple OU Device > >Hi Michael. To answer your questions: > >>In your design was the north poles all on one side and south poles all on >>the opposite side of the track? > >yes > >>Were they opposite each other and not staggered? > >yes - and there is no space between them. They are Radio Shack flat ceramic, about 1" x >1" x 3/16". There were only 3 sets: #1 set with 1 magnet; #2 with 2 stacked per side; #3 >with 5 stacked. #3 was angled so the far end was farther apart than the end near >magnets #2. Also a cardboard 'shield' was placed over the insides of the #3 set to keep >the ball from getting too close, as this area was beyond the end of the guiding track. > >>In my design they were like the patent and I could accelerate the ball >>through the course for and easy exit. With more magnets stacked, the ball >>could go up a slope and then drop. I'll try your design. >> >>Currently building a flat track with two straight sections for a continuous >>loop. Magnetic powered perpetual motion for a nice executive toy. But for 10 hp? > >Greg's suggestion that we focus on the parameters for leaving the magnets, and figuring >a way to have a smooth, adjustable graduated magnetic field, are important for being >able to scale this up. > >A practical 10HP will come when we figure out exactly what's happening here and how, and >use it in a different physical embodiment - unless you want a very large machine that >has huge PM's rolling cannonballs up slopes ! > >Let us know how your dual flat track comes out! > >Dan > Clear enough? Dan Quickert From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 11:43:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA12358; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33A9820A.1134C54D verisoft.com.tr> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:01:30 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Jean-Louis Naudin Cc: vortex Subject: My SMOT II setup X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"V6a0B3.0.p03.gjNgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8487 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis, I think you gone too straight up when upscaling the design. I found your array size too long. I accomplish my setup with a shorter size of 3 x 40 mm. My arrangement is 1+3+4. without the "S" shape on the exit I got roll away with near 1 mm penalty. Ramp rise = 26.5 mm and the drop away height is 18 mm. So I have about 8 mm to obtain level roll away with a proper exit shape. Surprizingly I found the spacing between magnets is 55 mm, close to the your setup. I have seen your RMOD work. I think the way to access the extra energy is unequal time period entering and leaving the fields. So your design is not suitable for acceleration and deceleration of the balls because of the angular momentum of the wheel. Did you tried a one arm setup with the ball weight is balanced with short arm but heavier counter-balance? ball o-----------.--(O) counter balance axis Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 11:49:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA05385; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:44:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:44:41 -0700 Message-ID: <33A97D86.3A5E skylink.net> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:42:14 -0700 From: Robert Stirniman X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Review of Corso Book References: <970619174538_76016.2701_JHC53-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ss22e1.0.3K1.NuNgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8489 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Forwarded Message. From: Greg Sandow Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:34:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:57:40 -0400 Subject: Corso's book Damn. I never meant to buy it. I just thought I'd sit and read it in the bookstore, to see what it was like. But it turned out to be more substantial, more dubious, and more just plain quirky than I expected, so I had to have a copy. Here's what's in it. The central UFO theme is a lot more detailed and newer than anyone has yet suggested here. But there's a smorgasbord of UFO references -- Roswell, abductions, the autopsy film, cattle mutilations, MJ-12 -- so random and incoherent you can easily suspect they were tossed in by someone who didn't really know the UFO literature, to give a manufactured story credibility. And that's not all. Corso makes claims about non-UFO history -- the U-2 incident and the Cuban Missile Crisis -- that are, shall we say, at variance with the usuaul accounts. It turns out, in fact, that even in non-UFO terms Corso is a key figure in postwar events, and, if we factor in his alleged UFO role, he becomes one of the most important people in the 20th century. Though to give him credit, he's modest about his stature and in fact says that the importance of his work hadn't even occured to him until he sat down to write what apparently (he's not entirely clear about this) was originally going to be quite a different memoir. If I've read him correctly on this last point, of course, then Thurmond's staff might be right when they say they originally had an outline with nothing in it about UFOs. However, Corso says in the book that Thurmond knew the UFO secret, so Thurmond was going to be involved with the book whether he wrote the foreword or not. To discuss some of these points in greater detail: The key to Corso's UFO information is the title of the book -- "The Day After Roswell." This refers to something initially quite limited, and fascinating -- what happened to the crash debris. Corso says that it initially got scattered scientific study, some of which led to the development of the transitor. But then it languished, until the early '60s when Corso went to work for a foreign technology unit of the army. His superior asked him to look at the stuff, and suggest what might be done with it. Corso's report (I'm leaving out all the "supposedly"s here, to save wear and tear on my typing fingers) led to an ingenious project, in which suggestive bits of alien stuff were funneled into private-industry research projects that were already used to getting terrestrial foreign technology, and not asking questions about it. That is, one week they'd get parts from a crashed Soviet jet. The next week they'd get something alien. They wouldn't be told what either thing was. The point here was to keep the work secret by NOT starting a massive new project -- and, by the way, to cover the tracks of any alien-based technological developments. This sounds plausible to me, though I'd be quick to stress I don't have the military or intellgence background for my assesssment to mean much. One key to the plan was that security was just as important as information. That's why a full-bore study wasn't unleashed from the start. Corso's full story of the aliens includes more than this -- they're hostile, for instance, and they're genetically-engineered creatures, optimized for space travel. And it has a grand and glorious conclusion. After alien technology helped create night vision equipment and lasers, among much else, it finally helped us build particle-beam weaponry that -- when deployed as part of Reagan's Star Wars program -- not only brought the cold war to an end, but brought about a stalemate with the aliens, whose UFOs could now be shot down! Corso somewhat fudges the extent of his involvement with this, since he left the army shortly after setting the initial project in motion (though his fudging may just be a reflection of a general carelessness that afflicts much of the narrative). Still, if this is where his work led, he's a hero -- clearly, as the man who set us on the path of miltiary equality with an alien invading force, one of the great heroes of our time. One passing thought: We've read here that somebody traced the development of the transistor through patents and articles in scientific journals, and found every step accounted for, thus proving, supposedly, that alien technology wasn't involved. Corso suggests that the project was set up to create precisely this impression. Besides -- and here I'm speaking for myself -- patents and journal articles don't record where engineers and scientists get their ideas. If somebody's thinking is stimulated by a fragment of an alien TV set, they still have to theorize and experiment to imitate the thing -- and it's those theories and experiments that show up in published data, not the inspiration for them. So what about Corso's non-UFO heroism? This, friends and fellow ufologists, is a doozy. Corso takes personal credit for U.S. resistance to Soviet missiles in Cuba. I'm not exaggerating. Corso says he had photographs clearly showing the missles, and says that he knew President Kennedy wasn't going to do anything about it. So he leaked the information to Senator Kenneth Keating of New York, and, most crucially, to a reporter -- and says that it was the reporter's articles that forced Kennedy to act! Needless to say, you can't find this in standard histories. Keating, it's true, sounded an early alarm; that I could document. But -- while Corso is in synch with standard histories when he says the CIA didn't believe that Soviet ICBMs were in Cuba -- the usual story depicts a steady buildup of data within the Kennedy administration that quickly persuaded Kennedy to act. Corso also appears out to lunch when he reproduces quotes from phone conversations between Eisenhower and Soviet premier Khrushchev about the U-2 flights that eventually would wreck a US-Soviet summit meeting. Corso seems to say (again, the sloppy tracking of details throughout the book makes this hard to be sure about) that his source is a buddy in the KGB, and he's correct, according to standard histories, to say that Eisenhower was dubious about the flights, and that the USSR knew all about them, even before they shot one down. But that Khruschchev and Eisenhower ever talked about it before the shooting, and even that they ever talked on the phone, is, um, new. You won't find any reference to it in the standard Stephen Ambrose biography of Eisenhower, or in Khrushchev's memoirs. For what it's worth, the hot line between the White House and the Kremlin wasn't even installed till the '60s. There's also a hint somewhere about the CIA plotting Kennedy's assassination. Nothing more on the subject. And everything in the book is buried in a subtext right out of a spy novel. The CIA (which follows Corso around Washington to see what he's up to) is shipping secrets to the Russians. Nevertheless, an unstated bond between the CIA and the KGB adds a touch of stability to US-Soviet relations, and Corso quite happily makes deals with the Soviet military, which hates the KGB. On one memorable page he even gets photocopies smuggled out of the Soviet embasssy -- the point being to find out exactly what secrets the CIA has revealed! Thurmond? The reference to his secret knowledge is brief, and just a bit coy. I can't find it, for the moment, and the book has no index. But in essence it's this. Corso finds his superior, General Arthur Trudeau, talking to Thurmond. Thurmond says something about "them," and Corso understands that "they" are the aliens. If that's all he has to go on, you might wonder why he's so sure. but he does state outright that Thurmond knew. UFO data? What a mishmash. The book begins, in fact, with an account of the Roswell crash, complete with reconstructed dialogue. It reads like fiction -- or, to give a proper UFO antecedent, like one of Keyhoe's books, though the facts Keyhoe alleged always checked out. Maybe to give himself an out, Corso says he's heard many versions of the crash story, and that this is just one of them. As we've read here, Major Jesse Marcel is on hand at the crash site, overseeing the recovery of the body of the craft, and the aliens. That's at variance with standard Roswell accounts, which, as Dennis Stacy has pointed out, leave us wondering why Marcel wasn't there, or, if he was, why he never talked about it afterwards. But there's more. A sentry shoots an alien that starts to move, and there are named witnesses heretofore unknown (or at least not listed in the indexes of the standard Roswell books). Who's Steve Arnold? Corso says he rode shotgun on one of the staff cars heading for the recovery site, and was the first to disembark. Who's Roy Danzer, a plumbing subcontractor who was fitting pipe at the base, and saw the recovery convoy arriving with the alien bodies, one of which Danzer saw? Corso mentions the members of MJ-12, without naming the organization. He says the aliens have six fingers; that's from the autopsy film. He's confusing on abductions. I've said that much in this book isn't clear, and the abduction references go to the front (or rear) of the pack. It's hard to tell, but Corso does seem to state that abductions were known in the '50s and known to be widespread in the '60s, something the UFO literature won't support. (But then Corso might have been referring to secret military data. Who knows?) These UFO references are a mess, basically. Corso at least should have noted where they fit. As in: "Yes, UFO researchers have found these names, and say they were part of a group called MJ-12. I never heard that name, but the group did exist, and these were the guys who ran it." As things stand, every one of these references seems phony, as if Corso (or his ghostwriter) had plucked factoids from various UFO sources, to make the story seem credible. What WOULD make the tale believable? More facts. Backup. Corrobora tion. The book, taken as a whole, is simply weird. Suppose it's fake. Why on earth would Corso, after what appears to have been a distinguished career, smash his reputation for....what, money? Fame? Attention? Why would he say Thurmond knew the secret, when that means Thurmond would certainly be asked, and presumably would deny the whole thing? But then suppose the story is real. Is this how a distinguished military man spills the greatest secret in human history? By hiring a ghostwriter to write an incoherent popular potboiler? Wouldn't a better plan be, first, to make sure the book makes sense, and addresses obvious problems right where they occur, and second to call a press conference, in which supporting evidence and maybe even a supporting witness or two would see the light of day? There's precious little in the book for anyone to work with. Here and there you find a name -- "Dr. Mark Johnson," for instance, identified as an "aeronautical reserach scientst" from Hughes Aircraft, whom Corso says he met at Fort Belvoir, and who knew the alien secret. Does this man exist? And how did Corso emerge from this long history without a single document? All he seems to have are some shadowy photos of UFOs, and even these he says he can't vouch for as genuine. But wait -- there ARE documents! He mentions them in the text, and even quotes from them. For instance, he has a private copy of General Trudeau's apparently unpublished memoirs. He even quotes a paragraph, in which UFOs aren't mentioned. Is that the best he could do? What do the rest of the memoirs say? Would I be right to suspect that UFOs aren't mentioned anywhere in them? And then there are Corso's sharply written reports to Trudeau, which he quotes from liberally. Could we, perhaps, see a page or two? Can we verify that they really were written in the '60s, or that at least they could have been? What security markings do they bear, if any? The book doesn't tell us. Corso also mentions his journals. Can we see them? Can we verify their age? This is getting frustrating -- unless, of course, we simply conclude that the whole thing is bogus, and that we're not seeing these documents because they don't exist. Finally, there's something else. Apparently this secret wasn't very tightly kept. The Soviets knew all about it. Even the Nazis did -- Corso thinks they'd recovered their own alien UFO, and were on the way to learning the aliens' secrets. The ET threat was discussed at National Security Council meetings, he also says, was known about at high levels in all the armed services, and was widely known (or at least rumored) in science and private industry. So where's the evidence for that? Stalin, Corso says, pitched a fit when he heard about Roswell. Are there Kremlin files that say so? And what about the hundreds or thousands of politicians, generals, admirals, Washington insiders, scientists and industrial magnates who knew about the aliens? Surely -- if Corso's book is true, and he's still alive after writing it -- somebody, somewhere, is going to step forward to say that they were there, too. (Delightful fact! Corso's view of the aliens does not support other alleged insiders' reports -- not Bob Lazar's, with its spacecraft fueled by element 115, or William Uhouse's (he being Glenn Campbell's "Jarod II"), with its deal between the ETs and our government: their technology in exchange for a steady supply of boron. Who should we believe?) Greg Sandow From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 11:54:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA12599; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33A98328.3DD0CE80 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:06:16 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Torque on entering the return flux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-udER2.0.j43.XkNgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8488 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, While adjusting the new SMOT II, I noticed that my 25 mm ball try to rearrange its poles by turning around while entering the return flux on the exit below the magnet. I think this is the proof of the magnetization of the ball while climbing the ramp and carrying this polarization while passing the return flux. If the ball is magnetized progressively in the climbing area there will be no penalty while leaving the main field on the exit (entering and leaving energies will be equals). But the asymmetry comes from the magnetic state of ball on the leaving the return flux at the low end and reentering the return flux at the exit area. So due to asymmetry, ball may experience more pull on the gradient of the return flux of the low end than the high end. I also noticed a small repelling effect when the ball is getting far enough from the exit. I think it is possible to optimize the setup according arguments above. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 12:14:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA19075; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:07:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:07:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: 19 Jun 97 15:04:42 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: SMOT mag array design Message-ID: <970619190442_100433.1541_BHG77-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"kLeTH2.0.vf4.mDOgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8490 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dan, Well, thanks for the clarification. My problem now is that I've almost precisely duplicated the array and ramp design posted by Greg. I, and more to the point, Soo, cannot persuade it to work, despite trying all kinds of magnet positions. Three possibilities come to mind: 1. The magnet height relative to the ball may be wrong; mine has the top of the ball just about 1mm above the top of the magnets, the magnets being 10mm high and the ball being 12mm diameter (possibly 12.5mm). 2. The magnet array is identical, but the magnet strength may not be. 3. I take the 53mm ramp length as being the length from the start of the slope to the end of the ramp, defining the latter as being the tiny bit of vertical between the two halves of the S-curve. I'm using 10mm high ramps, 13mm wide (outside measurement). The configuration I'm talking about is, of course, the 5-4-3-2-1 wedge. Can anyone help with this? Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 13:33:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA31259; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:27:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:27:28 -0700 Message-Id: <33A9945F.6078D52 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:19:43 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Bloody full moon X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"85xE3.0.Ke7.lOPgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8491 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, This is a new proof for the full moon interaction with the human psychology. I just cut my hand with a circular saw while preparing a new wood base for the SMOT. I needed the hospital manipulation. Fortunately the saw did not cut tendons and nerves. I am still able to typing with two hands. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 13:37:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA00307; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:35:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:35:12 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:33:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970619163246_-1731077988 emout20.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l eskimo.com cc: vortex-l eskimo.com, harti@bbtt.de Subject: Re : Did J.L. Naudin succeed ? Resent-Message-ID: <"pG-JC3.0.U4.zVPgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8492 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 19/06/1997 20:54:12 , you wrote : << Hi, I just viewed his new page at: http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/rmodmk2.htm Did he get a cloosed loop RMOD running ? If his GIF -Animation is true, it seems so... Good luck Jean Louis ! Regards, Stefan. >> Hi Stephan, Thanks for the encouragements, I have begun the RMOD v2.0 test phase this evening, the adjustment must be accurate to obtain a continously closed loop. I have some problem with the material used for the ball ( steel ). I need to find the good material for the moving part ( the balls ) which have a B/H curve with a low saturation and low permeabilty. Because when the ball pass through the high flux density zone ( just in front of the "blue hole", see my QField), the ball must be completly saturated ( magneticaly ). The Steel ball that I have used have a saturation at about 5000 A/m - 1.6 T. Inside my curved ramp the higher flux density ( at the output) is about 0.1 T to 0.15 T ....... :-( If I want to obtain a good magnetic regauging effect (the key of the closed loop), I need to find a ferromagnetic material which saturates around 0.1 T in the case of my RMOD V2 configuration...... If someone knows this kind of magnetic material, his answer is welcome...... Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 13:59:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA07874; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A99A8D.B55331A9 worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:46:05 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: Vortex Subject: Re: Phase 5 not reached? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <970618214218_72240.1256_EHB88-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZA4UP2.0.xw1.fgPgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8493 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > To: Vortex > > Greg's home page has messages like: > > Sorry... Phase 5 is not yet reached! > > That's http://home.worldonline.nl/~catware/phase5.html. Phase five is when the > ball goes around and around without stopping. > > Greg: does this mean your home page is not finished? Or does it mean you have > never achieved Phase 5, and you retract your earlier claims?!? > > The home page also says phases 3 and 4 have not been reached. I don't get it. > > - Jed Hi Jed, Sorry for the confusion. The phase skipping is because there were 4 phases original, but were later changed to 6 phases, and everybody suddenly jumped to phase 5 and 6 in design. If I find some time I will update the pages. I will also change the (bad choice of the) name of the pages. -- Ronald de Mol. http://home.worldonline.nl/~catware From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 14:20:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA12420; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:16:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:16:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33A99FF6.DAA12CF5 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:09:10 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Re: USA Today17/ June reports giant UFO flies over Pheonix Az USA X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fG8g32.0.x13.p6Qgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8494 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, Pausing my SMOT research, I found the new released article on the subject. Located at http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/newse/june/arizona.html Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 14:22:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA08337; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:16:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:16:51 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:16:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706192116.OAA05684 guilder.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szdanq peseta.ucdavis.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Dan Quickert Subject: Re: SMOT mag array design Resent-Message-ID: <"Ku0nJ1.0.B22.27Qgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8495 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: >Dan, > >Well, thanks for the clarification. My problem now is that I've almost >precisely duplicated the array and ramp design posted by Greg. I, and >more to the point, Soo, cannot persuade it to work, despite trying all >kinds of magnet positions. Three possibilities come to mind: > >1. The magnet height relative to the ball may be wrong; mine has the >top of the ball just about 1mm above the top of the magnets, the magnets >being 10mm high and the ball being 12mm diameter (possibly 12.5mm). > >2. The magnet array is identical, but the magnet strength may not be. > [snip] Chris, Magnet strength makes a vast difference. What kind are you using? If ceramic, do you know what grade? That question has been asked about Greg's magnets but I haven't seen an answer yet. The lower grade ceramics seem to work better for me. I've a bunch of Radio Shack mags that are too tall, would like to cut them in half but don't have the tooling for that. But then there's Epitaxy's reported roll-around with NdFeB! When you say it doesn't work, do you mean you can't get a level rollaway, or not even close? In the small amount of time I've had to revisit this configuration, I haven't gotten a level rollaway either. Close, but no cigar. Suggestions: Do play with magnet height. Can make a big difference. The higher the magnets, the farther away the ball will be on release, thus better rollaway - but trickier balance necessary for release. Lower magnets make for better release when you're going for high lift. One thing that I remember from my first attempts in April, was that it seemed to be easier to get release if the end stack of magnets diverged out a bit. So facing the ball the magnet array would be parallel, until the end where the magnets spread out and are farther apart. This necessitates the last magnet stack be even larger to make a uniformly increasing field. Haven't tried that recently, but it might be worth looking at. Dan From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 14:29:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA13209; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:24:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:24:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: 19 Jun 97 17:16:47 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: In defense of government spending Message-ID: <970619211647_72240.1256_EHB61-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"-3d5J2.0.JE3._DQgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8496 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex Michael J. Schaffer writes: Not quite true. For many years fusion research at General Atomics was nurtured and supported by Gulf Oil, which owned us at that time. It is probably due to this far-sighted investment that GA is the leading private company in fusion research. I did not say that HF never attracted corporate investment in the past, or that it was never promising. But are you doing hot fusion research today? And if so, do you use your own capital, or does the research money all come from the government? Today, no for-profit company can invest in long-range research; the changed financial market place will not allow it. I think this is generally true, and I think it is a good thing. I agree with Freeman Dyson's idea that a technology R&D project should take no longer than 8 or 10 years. Incidently, this is described in his book "Disturbing the Universe," chapter 9, "Little Red Schoolhouse" which is about the founding of General Atomics Corporation. Please note that Dyson and I are talking about *technology R&D projects* aimed at practical ends, not basic science. Basic science can putter along uselessly for hundreds of years with no harm done, because there are few scientists and their work costs society next to nothing. The only way long range research can now be done in the USA is by public support. I disagree. Corporations and semi-public consortia like EPRI will support basic research if only the scientists learn to make a convincing case for themselves. Unfortunately, most scientists do a dreadful job of public relations. They go out of their way to alienate supporters and infuriate the public. That is why CF is in such trouble. If the CF scientists has 2% of political savvy of Edison, T. H. Huxley, Cyrus Field, Davy or Faraday we would have had cold fusion powered automobiles by now. Fusion has to compete against many other research areas for scarce public funds. That's good! Competition breeds excellence. But I don't see how anyone can characterize U.S. public funds for science as "scarce." We spend far more today, in real dollars, than any other country in history. It hasn't had much affect. We are stuck in a rut. As Chris says, every major technology was invented before 1950. Maybe we should cut public funding in half and force the scientists into *real* cutthroat competition -- the kind you see in the computer industry. How often do you hear of a DoE or NIH lab firing everyone and closing down because one major project did not pan out? In the computer business that happened to me twice in five years. When you or your group fails in technology, everyone should be fired. It is not a harsh punishment; it is the natural order of things. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 14:30:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA10885; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:27:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:27:03 -0700 Date: 19 Jun 97 17:17:17 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Pd Sims Message-ID: <970619211717_72240.1256_EHB61-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"m1zhM3.0._f2.cGQgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8497 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex Elliot Kennel writes: As you probably know, we also use Johnson Matthey and other sources of Pd, not just one. Do you use the "Type A" recommended by Martin? Did you hear him discussing it at ICCF6? As I said, I do hope you followed the Storms protocols, which are recommended by Fleischmann and Cravens. Storms got good results with Tanaka palladium, but he had to winnow one good cathode out of dozens. Without the tests, he never would have found it. Anyway we observed the phenomenon we were looking for. Barely! You want it a hundred times stronger. BTW, Mizuno also has obtained strong positive results on non-excess heat cathodes. I presume you mean he obtained transmutations. Yes, but he, Martin and others have said they believe this is accompanied by heat too low to measure. I think you are under the impression that apparent excess heat and apparent isotope shift are strongly related. I don't think that is the case at all. Interesting that you disagree with these others . . . you must have your reasons. As I noted, tritium can be generated in the absence of measurable heat even with excellent calorimetry, so perhaps you are right, and host-metal transmutations can be decoupled from heat. Of course there are no fixed proportions between heat and transmutations, any more than there is between smoke and fire. They get a university discount. But their measurements are first rate. Glad to hear, but I am sure they don't get a $4950 discount! Maybe you are being overcharged. Andrei Lipson, from the Institute of Physical Chemistry in Moscow who (along with Alexander Rousettskiy) in my view had the most impressive result in ICCF-6) has the desk across from mine for the next year . . . Ah, very good! Never do a CF experiment without hands-on assistance. That's what I say. BTW, a while back you criticized Mizuno's lab facilities and I couldn't figure out what you were talking about. Then it dawned on me that you were thinking of his OFFICE which has several experiments in it, along with a ton of clutter. But his real lab is in the next building and contains, among other things, a nuclear accelerator and a multimillion dollar neutron detection facility. You are greatly mistaken if you think that their work is not supported with excellent facilities. You are incorrect. All of Mizuno's CF experiments are crammed into his office. The university will not give him any more space. His department chairman does not like CF. Mizuno does conventional nuclear science in the underground facility next door. He did have a CF experiment down there at one time. Akimoto, who is not under Mizuno's chairman, has a small CF experiment in the bowels of the underground lab, in that plastic tent. It is primarily devoted to neutron detection. I believe Mizuno is assisting. Thus, to simply show that the same sample exhibits an isotope shift over and over again does not eliminate the possibility that it is an artifact of some type . . . Yes. The only way to eliminate that possibility is to use instruments other than SIMS. This is essential. . . . or that isotope separation has occurred. Isotope separation is ruled out because the isotopes of Cu and other elements were not in the cell in the first place. They can't separate out if they ain't in there in the first place. Right? But nobody in Japan has ever told me that I'm uncooperative, least of all Mizuno and Ohmori. I think you're way off base. Lots of people told me that, including people from Japan, the U.S. and Europe. I summarized their views in my Open Letter. Of course I take responsibility for that letter, but let me repeat that I circulated it to all of the scientists referenced in the footnotes, and most of them agreed with most of the points I made. Scientists always quibble, but in general they agreed. They contributed valuable suggestions and points I was unaware of. Pons, Mizuno, Bockris and Storms were particularly helpful. So I think you are way off base, and I have published *an explicit, detailed, footnoted, peer-reviewed technical paper* describing why I think so. You and the managers at NHE, on the other hand, have never responded, except with these vague Vortex postings about how cooperative and lovey-dovey everyone is out there. Who are your trying to kid? Did you hear what Martin Fleischmann and McKubre said about the NHE?!? If you want to know what the leading CF scientists think of the NHE research, you will find their opinions represented in my Open Letter. They are not happy with it. You may disagree with their views, but if you deny they are unhappy you are imitating the Mythical Ostrich with her head in the sand, which gets up her nose and in her ears too, I'll bet. (Dunno, never tried it.) - Jed (listening to Swann and Flanders animal songs: "peekaboo, I can't see you, not while I've got me 'ead in the sand . . .") From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 14:38:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA13364; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:36:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:36:20 -0700 Date: 19 Jun 97 17:33:14 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: In defense of government spending Message-ID: <970619213314_100433.1541_BHG66-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"EzYSy3.0.hG3.JPQgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8498 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed, > The diary industry fought pasteurization for 50 years. > Some diary farmers saw the wisdom of pasteurization. Sorry. Couldn't resist the temptation. One thing which might cheer both you and Hamdi (with his cut hand, which I hope will heal quickly) is the news of the Japanese tourist in London who wanted to get to Turkey. She was directed to a train to Torquay (a resort town some hundreds of miles away) and when she became concerned that it seemed a long way to the airport, was told by her fellow- passengers that this was indeed the right train for "Turkey." She concluded that this must be a direct train to Istanbul. Perhaps through the Channel tunnel.... Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 15:08:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA18297; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:05:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:05:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Steck" Message-Id: <9706191657.ZM23767 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:57:41 -0500 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: JLN - RMOD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"uUEyR1.0.nT4.jqQgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8499 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ok. My curiosity has been prodded enough. First off, if Jean-Louis Naudin's web page is everything it seems, congratulations. Looks to be quite a breakthrough in XMOD development. Although pictures usually tell a thousand words, care to elaborate on any of the details on the performance of this device? (to continue the earlier Monty Python free association, " ...put 'em in the com'fy chair!") Jean-Louis: 1) Does it run continuously or is that just a looped animation? 2) If it is running continuously, what is the estimated RPM? torque? 3) Can the effect be enhanced by scaling? I seem to remember bigger isn't better. 4) Can more than one flight of magnets be used? or will field proximity kill the effect? My apologies if you are in the process of finding these things out. I look forward to hearing more! 8^) -- Quote of the Day: Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot. --- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 15:27:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA23584; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:24:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:24:08 -0700 Date: 19 Jun 97 18:22:20 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: SMOT mag array design Message-ID: <970619222220_100433.1541_BHG69-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"fOLwl2.0.Qm5.76Rgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8500 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dan, > Magnet strength makes a vast difference. What kind are you using? > If ceramic, do you know what grade? Ceramic, and 'weak' grade by comparison with others I have. > I've a bunch of Radio Shack mags that are too tall, would like to > cut them in half but don't have the tooling for that. They cut easily with a standard 20mm diameter diamond-impregnated wheel, spun at high rpm. The wheel cost me about 8 UK pounds (around $12), plus tax. Keep the magnet wet. > When you say it doesn't work, do you mean you can't get a level > rollaway, or not even close? If we prop the input up by 1mm it works beautifully. On the level it doesn't work. > Do play with magnet height. Can make a big difference. The higher > the magnets, the farther away the ball will be on release, thus > better rollaway - but trickier balance necessary for release. Will do. Thanks. By the way, to continue the Torquay/Turkey saga, apparently the lady was fooled for a while in Torquay by the palm trees (yes, our west coast has those - even in northern Scotland), but the fish-and-chip shops soon gave the truth away. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 15:41:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA23797; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33A9CEDA.C4F keelynet.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:29:14 -0700 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Contact for Michael Huffman References: <970619222220_100433.1541_BHG69-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yLlvL1.0.kp5.-IRgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8501 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A Gnorts Vorts! I have a fellow who needs to get in touch with Michael Huffman for a business project. Could anyone provide me with his phone number, email or snailmail address? If you just know the city and state, I can look it up through Accumail, I tried using an all states hunt and there are hundreds of MHs as expected....thanks for your assistance. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 16:19:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA02325; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:16:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:16:30 -0700 Date: 19 Jun 97 19:14:13 EDT From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Mail Subject: Re: That was the Supercolider Message-ID: <970619231413_100060.173_JHB44-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"Sq-VV2.0.9a.DtRgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8502 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris T said: >> The then UK Energy Minister. No, he doesn't "nearly admit," he says in the letter (it was to Norman Horwood of this group) that there is no prospect of any practical energy source coming out of fusion research. That implies the the UK funding of the Joint European Torus is in place simply to ensure the steady flow of Euro-cash - JET is on UK soil. Sort of like the enthusiasm of State Senators for Federal Big Science projects to be on their territory. << Quite true Chris, but we now have a new gummint who are saying that they will "address" or "look into" everything - mind you, that's no guarantee that they will change the research funding policies of a civil service lifetime. I might write to the new bod in charge of science / education if Peter Mandelson will allow me! Norman From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 16:47:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA06769; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:45:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:45:49 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: SMOT mag array design Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:35:28 +0000 Message-ID: <19970619233526.AAA16185 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"zm3s-1.0.gf1.iISgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8503 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:22 PM 6/19/97 +0000, Chris wrote: > Dan, > >By the way, to continue the Torquay/Turkey saga, apparently the lady was >fooled for a while in Torquay by the palm trees (yes, our west coast has >those - even in northern Scotland), but the fish-and-chip shops soon >gave the truth away. > >Chris > Sounds a bit like the marine that was changing planes in San Francisco a few years ago after arriving pooped from a flight from western Europe headed essentially across the Bay to Oakland. They called a flight to Auckland and he boarded it. He woke somewhere over Midway Is. or something, wondering what went wrong. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 17:01:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA09221; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:58:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:58:58 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970619235848.00676618 atlantic.net> X-Sender: johmann atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:58:48 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Kurt Johmann Subject: Re: The Day After Roswell - Off topic Mindblower Resent-Message-ID: <"GWIjn.0.vF2.1VSgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8504 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Michael Mandeville writes: >Phillip J. Corso, Col, US Army, Ret. > >"The Day After Roswell", pub date July 1997 > >just hit the shelves at Barnes & Noble. > [big snip] > >Can anybody give me bearings on Corso? Is this part of the wall of the >Paradigm Shift hitting us in the morning streets? Or is this just another >new age con? It's a con. A deliberate lie that may well have been encouraged, instigated, and/or financed by the military and/or other government body as part of UFO disinformation. Here are a few reasons why I believe this: 1) The whole Roswell story rests on alleged eyewitness testimony decades after the alleged fact, and the "witnesses" are all military or military-connected. 2) IMO, it is in the military's self-interest to present UFOs and their occupants -- for those who want to believe in them -- as physical objects, since this belief would make UFOs and their occupants subject to potential exploitation and destruction by the military, whose weapons are all physical. And for the US government as a whole, the interests of the empire would not be served by public beliefs in things that are stronger than the empire or potentially beyond its destructive reach. 3) In the mid-80s there was the case of the bogus Roswell documents about an alleged secret government agency (Majestic) set up by Truman to deal with the alleged crash. These documents, which IMO were shown by different forensics, including a copy-machine signature, to be forgeries, were traced back by some investigators to AFOSI (an Air Force intelligence service). A more recent example of attempts to fabricate evidence for the Roswell myth is the bogus autopsy film bought in Britain a few years ago. 4) The standard UFO literature is not consistent with the image of UFOs and their occupants as presented by the Roswell story. For example, compare the writings of Mack (MD), Jacobs (PhD), and Vallee (PhD) with the Roswell story. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 18:13:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA26856; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:12:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:12:02 -0700 To: vortex-L eskimo.com Cc: robert skylink.ne Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 18:57:32 -0700 Subject: UFO's / Transistors / Smots Message-ID: <19970409.185744.10038.0.tv juno.com> References: <970619174538_76016.2701_JHC53-1 compuserve.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,11-14,16,18-24,26-40 From: tv juno.com (Tim D Vaughan) Resent-Message-ID: <"4kYIo2.0.YZ6.XZTgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8505 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A HI Robert Stirniman, Thanks for the excellent review of the Corso book ! You should submit it to some newspapers or magazines or something. There are a number of people who had variations of the semiconductor transistor working before bell labs. One of the better documented was none other than Thomas Henry Moray the inventor of the Radiant Energy Device. Pages 70-71 of the book "The Sea of Energy" show the drawing notarized from 1931showing the construction of his Germanium transistor. Moray had some working in 1925. Dr. Harvey Fletcher who was the head of the division that developed the transistor at Bell Labs was well acquainted with Morays "germanium valve". It is well documented that he visited Moray on quite a number of occasions and was shown the germanium valve. Moray relates how he came to develop the transistor from his experiments with point contact diodes made from a rock he found in Sweden. Moray never fully disclosed the construction of his radiant energy device but it is well established that it worked, producing over 5000 watts for days at a time. It may have been some kind of nuclear battery but probably has more to do with work of the Correa's on the Pulsed Abnormal Glow Discharge device. We humans are pretty smart. We don't have to have aliens provide us with our advanced technology. I suppose someday someone will write a book that claims that cold fusion technology and magnetic free energy devices were given to mankind by an alien (Greg is an Alien ?? ). Tim Vaughan (tv juno.com) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 18:19:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA16952; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:14:02 -0700 (PDT) From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970619211216_1377873042 emout16.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Pahrump Resent-Message-ID: <"NWV1U2.0.l84.EbTgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8506 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Pahrump, Nv. Interesting. Same town as Art Bell. Same town that has the Chicken Ranch and the Mustang Ranch Brothel. Same town that the alliens landed in in the movie Mars Attacks. Pahrump is well know for many reasons. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 18:49:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA01221; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:45:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:45:16 -0700 Date: 19 Jun 97 21:41:55 EDT From: Gene <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: VORTEX Subject: Salt Lake Tribune Review Message-ID: <970620014155_76570.2270_FHU48-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"LoBPY2.0._I.h2Ugp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8507 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Vortexians: This review comes form the Salt Lake Tribune of June 19, 1997. Infinite Energy will have even more damning things to say about Fowler, Dewdney, et al and their pathetic "treatments" of CF. Gene Mallove ***** Cold Fusion: Rekindled Interest, But Still No Respect BY LEE SIEGEL THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE Cold fusion still doesn't get respect, eight years after University of Utah chemist Stanley Pons and British colleague Martin Fleischmann claimed they used a simple, room-temperature electrochemical device to harness the reaction that powers the sun. In recent months, three new books have been published that attack cold fusion: -- The Fusion Quest deals mainly with so-far futile efforts to produce energy from hot or high-temperature fusion, but it takes shots at cold fusion. The book was written by T. Kenneth Fowler, a University of California, Berkeley, physicist who served on a Department of Energy panel that investigated cold fusion. ''The experimental evidence offered to our committee by cold fusion's proponents was crude and unconvincing," Fowler wrote. ''Though a few scientists and a coterie of other enthusiasts have continued to claim otherwise, as far as I can tell the overall conclusion that cold fusion is an illusion still prevails, though I confess I have not been motivated to pay much attention lately." Weird Things calls cold fusion ''pseudoscientific" and a''debacle." ''Something is probably pseudoscientific if enormous claims are made for its power and veracity but supportive evidence is scarce as hen's teeth," wrote author Michael Shermer, publisher of Skeptic magazine and a science historian at Occidental College in Los Angeles. ''Maybe 50 years of physics will be proved wrong by one experiment, but don't throw out your furnace until that experiment has been replicated." -- Yes, We Have No Neutrons, a book detailing eight cases of ''mistaken science," includes a chapter on the''cold fusion fiasco." It takes its title from the old song''Yes! We Have No Bananas" and from the failure of Pons' and Fleischmann's cold fusion apparatus to produce the neutrons expected from a fusion reaction. Author A.K. Dewdney -- a University of Western Ontario computer scientist who once wrote Scientific American magazine's ''Mathematical Recreations" column -- acknowledged Pons and Fleischmann ''were respected chemists." But they took''an extraordinary gamble and lost. They lost, in the end, not because they were anxious for Nobel prizes or great wealth. Such factors may explain why they gambled. But they lost because they were wrong." The new books were greeted with derision by cold fusion advocate Eugene Mallove, editor of Infinite Energy magazine in Concord, N.H. ''The critics [of cold fusion] are becoming hysterically fearful that their worst nightmare is coming true -- namely, that they were wrong," said Mallove. ''These books will be marvelous collectors items when cold fusion products are on the market." Worldwide attention focused on Pons and Fleischmann after their March 23, 1989, Utah news conference because of fusion's potential as an abundant source of cheap, clean energy. But most laboratories couldn't reproduce their results, and scientific opinion quickly turned against the so-called ''thermodynamic duo." Within a couple of years, the researchers left Utah and went to work near Nice, France, at a cold fusion laboratory financed by the president of Toyota Motor Corp. Pons is still there, Mallove said, while Fleischmann recently went into semiretirement in Britain. The new books aren't the first to dismiss cold fusion. John Huizenga, who headed the Energy Department panel, wrote the 1992 book, Cold Fusion: The Scientific Fiasco of the Century. Science writer Gary Taubes came out with the 1993 volume Bad Science: The Short Life and Weird Times of Cold Fusion. Mallove, who wrote the 1991 pro-cold fusion book Fire from Ice, called both authors ''vicious villains." Mallove claimed researchers have developed working cold fusion devices, including a water heater, but said ''crackpot skeptics" won't be convinced until they personally witness a cold fusion electrochemical cell producing more energy than it uses. ''We would like to invite a critic over to a room with the cell and . . . stay in the room for 12 hours or so until they finally get the message about excess heat," Mallove said. ''They'll be toasted." Mallove singled out Dewdney as ''an incompetent critic," noting his book misspelled Fleischmann's name by dropping the''c." Told of the error, Dewdney replied: ''Just say Dewdney cringed." In his book, Dewdney said cold fusion ''believers continue to believe in the face of a world seemingly grown hostile to the possibility of cold fusion." He acknowledged the possibility some sort of heat-producing chemical reaction -- not fusion -- may have occurred in Pons' and Fleischmann's electrochemical cell. Mallove said most cold fusion advocates no longer believe the reaction is fusion, but instead is ''a nuclear reaction that for some reason does not give lethal [neutron] radiation." During an interview, Dewdney said the lesson of cold fusion is: ''If something sounds too good be true, let's just say it probably is." To most scientists, Pons' and Fleischmann's cold fusion claims were''a bit like hearing that someone had made a nuclear reactor from a soup can," Dewdney wrote. He compared the chemists to a''fisherman who snags an old boot [and] experiences great excitement. It may not be fighting much, but if it's heavy, he might well think,'! have something!' " Dewdney's book blames the cold fusion disaster on Pons' and Fleischmann's egos, penchant for secrecy,''failure to follow the exacting methodology of good science" and fear they would be beaten to cold fusion by Steven Jones at Brigham Young University. Dewdney puts some blame on the press, saying Pons' and Fleischmann's respectable reputations made reporters feel safe''in declaring the dawn of a new age of cheap and abundant energy.~' He also said University of Utah administrators fell prey to fears BYU would win the cold fusion race and shared Pons' and Fleischmann's ''dreams of wealth and fame." Dewdney wrote:''When science goes wrong, all hell breaks loose. Claims are met with counterclaims and the public grows confused. Weren't we promised free energy? Those who set such debacles in motion pay dearly for their mistakes. Their reputations suffer and science suffers too. The public grows skeptical about the scientific process." Despite his book, Dewdney said he has nothing against cold fusion or UFOs from outer space -- if they ever prove real. ''Other things being in equal, I'm all in favor of limitless energy and an alien in every garage." he said. [[ Caption: A.K. Dewdney's book is one of three now books that criticize the 1989 cold fusion episode]] All malerial found on Utah OnLine is copyrighled The Salt Lake Tnbune and associaled news services. No material may be reproduced or reused wilhout explicil permission from The Salt take Tnbune. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 19:07:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA25814; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33A9E3BB.BB3FBF29 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 05:58:19 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Gamma ray laser X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xdquQ2.0.EJ6.wKUgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8508 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, An other news for this (full moon) night. This come by email automatic subscription from "http://www.aip.org/physnews/update/". Maybe UFOs can be shutdown with this one. PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News Number 326 June 18, 1997 by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein GAMMA RAYS FROM A FREE ELECTRON LASER. Physicists at Duke University scatter ultraviolet photons from 500-MeV electrons inside a free electron laser facility to produce 12-MeV gamma-ray photons. By collimating the gamma flux, one can achieve a nearly monoenergetic beam. The emittance (the divergence) of the beam is so low that even after collimation the intensity of the gamma beam is 1000 times greater than that produced with conventional laser systems. A beam like this will be useful for cancer therapy and for high-precision gamma-ray transmission radiography. It can also be used to produce positrons and to perform sensitive studies of the atomic nucleus. ( Phys. Rev. Lett., 16 June.) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 19:10:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA26373; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:07:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:07:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33A9945F.6078D52 verisoft.com.tr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:05:35 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Bloody full moon Resent-Message-ID: <"GOWkV1.0._R6.xNUgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8509 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hamdi - > > I just cut my hand with a circular saw while > preparing a new wood base for the SMOT. Ouch! I hate when that happens. Glad there's no serious damage. How's that RMOD doing? Rolling on its own yet? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 19:29:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA07701; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:27:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:27:21 -0700 X-Intended-For: Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970619192901.009daae0 aa.net> X-Sender: mwm aa.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:29:03 +0100 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Mandeville Subject: Re: The Day After Roswell - Off topic Mindblower Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"7zyX12.0.Fu1.8gUgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8510 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:58 PM 6/19/97 -0400, you wrote: > >It's a con. A deliberate lie that may well have been encouraged, >instigated, and/or financed by the military and/or other government body >as part of UFO disinformation. >From: Kurt Johmann Thanks for the response. Not at all a bad line of reasoning...I'd never considered government disinformation casting the gov. as the cover up agent. Michael Wells Mandeville "Return of the Phoenix" at http://www.aa.net/~mwm/phoenix/phoenix.html From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 19:34:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA08383; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:30:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:30:52 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970619222220_100433.1541_BHG69-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:29:51 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: SMOT mag array design Resent-Message-ID: <"ze-Zj1.0.t22.RjUgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8511 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris - I'm having the same problem with the one-ramp rollaway design. Doesn't show any interest at all in working. Nice back-pull on the ball after dropoff no matter what I do. When I see how that works, I can't help but think "J-ramp exit", but I don't have much time to spare hacking these things. Have to pay the bills, and SMOTs don't help much. I do have another unit that's almost a half meter long consisting of 6 pairs of nose-to-tail staggered (Blanton-type, or whoever - they can share the award when the Nobel for "best new rogue SMOT magnet array" is handed out) arrays, and it will reliably carry a ball up 10-12mm or slightly more above the level start. I'll have to attack it with the hacksaw and put a nice rollaway drop on the end of it to see if that works. My single ramp only climbs 6mm. Maybe not enough altitude for the drop to clear the fields. That long ramp makes me wonder how many arrays you could just keep linking. If I had more magnets, I'd just keep going and find out. After a while if it just kept going and you're laying track across your neighbor's driveway, you'd kinda have to stop and say "ok, I guess it's overunity now..." But until I see that or a good solid repeatable rollaway at start-level or higher, I still have serious doubts about all of this. Sometimes I *really* feel like I'm wasting my time. BTW, you should do something nice for Soo for helping you with your SMOTs. My girlfriend just sneers at me when she finds me "playing with my marbles again". Perhaps we've simply lost our marbles for good this time? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 19:44:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA09646; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:39:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:39:05 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:38:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706200238.VAA10867 dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> From: aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki ) Subject: Re: Pahrump To: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"XIJyr2.0.aM2.8rUgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8512 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: June 19, 1997 Thanks Frank for explaining why the town needed the traffic lights. I din't know about the two. -ak- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 19:57:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA00440; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:42:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970619235848.00676618 atlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:39:46 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: The Day After Roswell - Off topic Mindblower Resent-Message-ID: <"25G_K2.0.o6.xtUgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8513 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kurt - > A more recent example of attempts to fabricate > evidence for the Roswell myth is the bogus autopsy > film bought in Britain a few years ago. Don't want to encourage a big threaded thing on this here, but I'd be interested in knowing how you've come to the conclusion that the film is bogus. I've not seen one argument against it (or for that matter, for it either) hold up. So far I've only seen opinions, not proof arising from the images in the film itself. Are you simply more comfortable believing it was a well constructed hunk of rubber? BTW, I was going to make a joke today to someone about the whole UFO thing being a hoax perpetrated by Rupert Murdoch. Then suddenly I realized - "gee, he *does* own the FOX broadcasting network, and has more money than God..." - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 20:45:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA19665; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:38:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:38:21 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: The Day After Roswell - Off topic Mindblower Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 03:37:48 +0000 Message-ID: <19970620033746.AAA28586 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"EZpq6.0.7p4.iiVgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8514 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:39 AM 6/20/97 +0000, Rick wrote: >Kurt - > >BTW, I was going to make a joke today to someone about the whole UFO thing >being a hoax perpetrated by Rupert Murdoch. Then suddenly I realized - >"gee, he *does* own the FOX broadcasting network, and has more money than >God..." But, less influence than Bill Gates? :-) Regards, Frederick > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 21:21:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA24955; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:15:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:15:12 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33AA03AE.605 math.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:14:38 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Salt Lake Tribune Review References: <970620014155_76570.2270_FHU48-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MiU1y2.0.r56.FFWgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8515 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gene wrote: > > ''We would like to invite a critic over to a room with > the cell and . . . > stay in the room for 12 hours or so until they finally get the message > about excess heat," Mallove said. ''They'll be toasted." > Whenever you actually are able to do such, please invite me. I've been looking for such an oppurtunity for ~ 7 years, but the offer never seems to materialize. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 22:15:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA22153; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970618010936.006fdad0 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (32) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 01:09:40 +0000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Take note, pecking order: estab->CF->PM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"c-bAg.0.3Q5.k3Xgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8516 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:34 PM 6/13/97 -0700, Martin Sevior wrote: > >Not a single CF device has ever done an erg of mechanical work. It would >be taken far more seriously if it had. > Not true. Which is why it is taken more seriously. Best wishes. Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 23:04:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA12816; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:01:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:01:57 -0700 Message-ID: <33AA2C2A.2A00 earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:07:22 -0700 From: Rich Murray Reply-To: rmforall earthlink.net Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Pd Sims, JR vrs EK References: <970618191327_72240.1256_EHB86-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"q5JN.0.683.KpXgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8518 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Right on, Jed! Rich Murray From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 23:07:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA29120; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:04:07 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november Reply-To: Steve Ekwall To: Bob Horst cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RMOD 'THINK BACKWARDS:)' In-Reply-To: <33A8D3DE.2129 loc1.tandem.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"R0D_8.0.w67.emXgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8517 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > Last weekend, I attempted to build a Rotating OU Device of my own > design. Unfortunately it shows no signs of OU, so I am giving up -- >---big snip on all your work--- (sigh) neat idea though!! :) > So, it looks like my attempt at fame and fortune are down the drain. > Please spare me the comments about not following Greg's step-by-step > directions. You could say that this approach was just not very SMOT. > > -- Bob Horst > Bob, Your two DISK(s) holding the balls (3?) was a brilliant idea..! I was trying to 'melt' or 'balance-pocket' them in. THANKS:) Forget Greg's step-by-step "IF" you've seen/felt the 'Blue-hole' I agree though with Greg's thought on if there is going to be O/u it's going to seem / appear BACKWARDS to us.. that the 'kicker' - literally! >>>>>>>>> shapes around down a spiral, around a tube through its Axis *Won't Do it* that's -normal Magnetisem-.. THANKS for your info on your "two disk's 'Pancakes' model".. The 'Real-Blue-Hole' I think, isn't an Assist, so much as a window of NO ATTRACTION, NO REPULLSION, NO INTERFERENCE..... Hence, you & I, First thought to amplify it (Ah!)... Null=null.. :) and out you go! RMOD or Rotary will need the 'Null-window' so everything that was added+ to it (Velocity,Mass,Momentum(some say heat)) can CONTINUE..as in SMOT 1. It's NOT a PUSH, it's a pull..... It's NOT an ACCELERATION, it's a 'temp' observable gain of height... It's NOT MASS, (I think you were going this direction(?) gained OR Lost.. It's RE-Cycled to a new ENTRY POINT (NOT EXIT POINT). Greg's smot2 or the "stacked (1.2.3.4) array" (I tried that first thing and had GREAT 1st Time Results!), works on an even more 'parallel arrangment' and appears to show BOOST (Bigger Magnet = Bigger Power).. But NO!,..... Before you "QUIT", Turn it UPSIDE DOWN and run it BACKWARDS! Before you "QUIT", Look or Feel the Blue-hole as a 'nothing' ADDITIVE. GIVE it one Last Try BACKWARDS (so to speak). Not up-hill..not down. I myself don't have a Rotory mod X down either.. but every corner I turn 'appears' to work CONTRARY to what I've learn in lifes observations... Hell, With that last line, the RMOD (per Paul Callender) MIGHT even need to BE SQUARE!! :) 'We' do NEED Greg's Blue-hole to GO through. out to in, up to down.. reminds me of the diagram : <-----------------------> what WE WANT (go,go,go) >-----------------------< what 'IT' Wants! (here,here,here) se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX BITE 'Be Infinite to Everything' p.s. where there's smot, there's fire. Greg's old hard to build (well thought out smot1) *IS* showing the smoke! Your description DIDN'T (at least to me) show Dropping OR Exiting through the null BLUE-HOLE in your RMOD.. Did you ou use 'springs' to push(?) or pull(?) at the NULL EXIT? Best of luck on your next xxxx From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 23:29:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA04146; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33AA00F3.2A2CF01D verisoft.com.tr> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:02:59 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Rick Monteverde , vortex Subject: Re: Bloody full moon X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jc8xB.0.Z01.XBYgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8519 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Rick, Thanks to you and to Chris for your wishes. This was a very deep scare on the thumb root. I did not expected such a performance from the saw disk. I hope there no defect will remain inside. The emergency sevice was crowdy as some times ago one vortexian related it to the moon. The new ramp is remain unfinished until I able to handle tools. Now the time for making some paper work. I think the SMOT is so fragile so it will be difficult to make experiment directly on it to investigate the the source of its energy. Anyway some clues are coming. As I said in my previous posting "Torque on entering the return flux" the ball histerysis playing some role. I am not sure that the effect is causing a loss or helping to gain energy. I think there is some mechanism which not well described by the magnetism in solid theory. The complexity arise when the ball enter the return flux on the exit still carry its previous magnetisation gained inside the array. the weak return flux does not erase this magnetisation at least in a fraction of a second. So the negative gradient of the return flux (ball direction is opposite of gradient) could not effectively decelerate the ball on the roll away path. This effect seem to me NOT CONSERVATIVE because the action of the return flux on the low end of the array is not symmetric to this and there is no opposite force to slow down the ball on the entry. May the analisys of the M.Schaffer "Magnetic Energy in SMOT" will help to understand the effect that I observed and try to explain above. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 23:35:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA18154; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:32:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:32:56 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33AA2410.39B8 math.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:32:48 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Pd Sims, JR vrs EK References: <970618191327_72240.1256_EHB86-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"U4frk2.0.aR4.NGYgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8520 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > > Who would > argue that the copper came from contamination when the mass > of it exceeds all contamination in the cell, and when it is only > found below the surface? .... I doubt any serious > scientist would suggest such hocus-pocus. > I would argue it, to a certain point. My only objection to accepting such observations as transmutation---replication aside---is that I want to see a suitable blank and/or control experiment, so there is a rigorous baseline for asserting that the perceived effects are being properly interpreted. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 19 23:44:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA19100; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:41:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:41:04 -0700 Message-ID: <33AA282C.439B loc1.tandem.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:50:20 -0700 From: Bob Horst Reply-To: bhorst loc1.tandem.com Organization: Tandem Computers Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: RMOD 'THINK BACKWARDS:)' References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4pHnN3.0.Mg4.0OYgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8521 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steve Ekwall wrote: > > NO!,..... Before you "QUIT", Turn it UPSIDE DOWN and run it BACKWARDS! > Before you "QUIT", Look or Feel the Blue-hole as a 'nothing' ADDITIVE. > GIVE it one Last Try BACKWARDS (so to speak). Not up-hill..not down. Yes, I have tried forwards and backwards rotation with many orientations of magnets and orientations of the wheel. When magnets are put between the disks instead of ball bearings and their fields oppose the magnet arrays, I figured it should run backwards. It should have less repulsion entering the field through the blue hole than exiting the field at what is normally the beginning of the ramp. But this did not work either. > RMOD.. Did you ou use 'springs' to push(?) or pull(?) at the NULL EXIT? No, the momentum of the wheel forces the ball to exit the field at the null point. If there was an assymetry in the total energy needed to enter and exit the field, it would gain a small amount of momentum on each pass. From the initial push, the wheel should slow to the speed where the frictional losses exactly equal the extra push from the magnets. Unfortunately that speed seems to be zero RPM. By the way, I just saw JL Naudin's web page (http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/rmodmk2.htm), and it is interesting that he independently came up with an almost identical design to mine. His web page shows an animation of it rotating, but does not actually claim that it keeps going. Mine will run for 30 seconds after a gentle intial push, but cannot start on its own. Eventually it stops rotating and goes into a damped oscillation until it stops. -- Bob Horst From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 00:00:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA07314; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:57:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:57:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33AA0891.108D3E96 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:35:29 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Re: Attempt at a new type of RMOD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3x6tC2.0.8o1.ZdYgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8522 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Bob Horst wrote: > Last weekend, I attempted to build a Rotating OU Device of my own > design. Unfortunately it shows no signs of OU, so I am giving up -- > maybe this will be of some help to others, at least giving you one > idea not to try. Greg's design is mostly based on the conversion of the kinetic energy to magnetic one, different speeds and different time intervals. He is always emphasize on it. If it is really key point of extracting the energy, variable speed of the ball while crossing the fields are necessary. On the contrary your wheel have a large momentum when comparing it to a single ball. As a result the speed of the wheel will not be changed dramatically by the magnetic forces. Maybe this is the reason of the failure. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 00:08:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA22264; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:03:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:03:02 -0700 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:09:06 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Full Moon Near! In-Reply-To: <19970619081900.AAA13992 LOCALNAME> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ctH8h3.0.mR5.biYgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8523 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Frederick J. Sparber wrote: > Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:19:02 +0000 > From: "Frederick J. Sparber" > Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com > To: vortex-l eskimo.com > Subject: Full Moon Near! > Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:20:32 -0700 (PDT) > Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com > > To Vortex: > > Feel those "confrontational" juices flowing, folks? Things should mellow > out by this time next week after the Summer Solstice-Full Moon radiation > flux diminishes. :-) > > That old pineal gland is still doing it's job. > > Regards, Frederick > > > That must be what it was, I think (thought) I owed Joe NEWman an apoligy .. sorry joe, (wolf-man attack).. KEEP UP THE good WORK! ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 01:00:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA13532; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970620075755.0068c11c atlantic.net> X-Sender: johmann atlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 03:57:55 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Kurt Johmann Subject: Re: The Day After Roswell - Off topic Mindblower Resent-Message-ID: <"F-mXF3.0.KJ3.wWZgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8524 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde writes: >Kurt - > > > A more recent example of attempts to fabricate > > evidence for the Roswell myth is the bogus autopsy > > film bought in Britain a few years ago. > >Don't want to encourage a big threaded thing on this here, but I'd be >interested in knowing how you've come to the conclusion that the film is >bogus. I've not seen one argument against it (or for that matter, for it >either) hold up. So far I've only seen opinions, not proof arising from >the images in the film itself. If I recall correctly, the TV show Sightings had a segment on the film a few months ago, and the show concluded that the film was a fake. I no longer remember the details of the evidence and/or arguments presented. Normally, Sightings is uncritical of UFO material. >Are you simply more comfortable believing it was a well constructed hunk >of rubber? I don't know or care what the prop was made out of. For all I know it could have been a leftover from some low-budget Hollywood movie. Bogus alien pictures are nothing new. One of the earliest was a doctored WWII picture that claimed to be a photo of two G-men escorting an alien. This film is just continuing the tradition. To me, the bottom line is that the description of the aliens in what I consider to be the reputable UFO literature is inconsistent with them being organic entities that can lie on a slab and be dissected. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 01:24:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA29667; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:22:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:22:12 -0700 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 02:27:55 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l eskimo.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au Subject: Now now now.... gentlemen In-Reply-To: <199706191813.LAA17892 guilder.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"zm73X.0.SF7.osZgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8525 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Dan Quickert wrote: NO SNIP on purpose: sorry... > Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:13:52 -0700 (PDT) > From: Dan Quickert > Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com > To: vortex-l eskimo.com > Cc: freenrg-l eskimo.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au > Subject: SMOT mag array design > Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:14:04 -0700 > Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com > > Chris Tinsley wrote: > >Terry, > > > > > I see you're going to try the wedge magnet design. I guess that > > > Greg's endorsement carried more weight than when I tried to get > > > you to do it. I tried to get everyone to try this with my very > > > first SMOT post. You could have saved yourself a lot of time and > > > trouble. No one listens to a crackpot Ufology nut, I guess. > > > > > > >Rubbish. Obviously quite a few people have listened to you - including > >Jed and Greg and me. But I had to go for the basic design first, > >because otherwise I'd end up trying everything in sight. Now that your > >array design has been developed by Greg into something very clear, I'm > >going for it. Look, your idea has become part of the design - and that > >can't really be said for anyone else except Greg. And you are > >complaining? > > > >Chris > > > > Pardon me, but since this has come up as an issue: > > I wasn't looking for credit on this, but if credit is being given, well... > > The magnet array configuration in question was first posted by me, on April > 10, to Greg and his list. Greg, and others who were recipients, can perhaps > verify that this is authentic. Michael Randall tried my setup on that same > day, and posted positive results. (BTW, Michael was the first to report a > working test of Greg's ramp). Here is a copy of my original message. It's a > long post; I've snipped it and left only headers and the relevant sections: > > >---------- > >From: Dan Quickert > >Sent: Thursday, April 10, 1997 12:12 AM > >To: 'gwatson microtronics.com.au' > >Cc: 'epitaxy localaccess.com'; 'dequickert@ucdavis.edu'; > 'catware worldonline.nl'; 'billb@eskimo.com'; 'harti@harti.com'; > 'puthoff aol.com'; 'little@eden.com'; 'bshannon@tiac.net'; > 'jnaudin509 aol.com'; 'mrandall@earthlink.net' > >Subject: RE: Simple OU Device > > > >Hi Greg, > > > [snip] > >Anyway it's some 3/8" aluminum U-channel, a bunch of Radio Shack square > >ceramic magnets, a steel ball and masking tape. Varied spacing of the > >magnets seemed not to work as well as just varying the field - first pair is 1 > >magnet, second is 2 together, etc.; set with *no* spacing between them. Did > >not stagger pairs (unlike the patent)(ref U.S. patent 4,215,330). The last pair > >is not parallel. I must admit it took more than 10 minutes all told! > > > >The key to getting release at the end, at least for my primitive setup, was > >to provide a guide to change the ball's forward momentum toward a downward > >fall, rather than just letting it drop. > [snip] > >If your device is similar, have you tried putting one at right angles (or > >whatever) to the output of the other, with a guide to help the ball make > >the turn? > > > >Thanks, Greg, for being so open with this idea and its development. > > > >Dan Quickert > > > > > > and later that day, in response to Michael Randall's query: > > >--------- > >From: Dan Quickert > >Sent: Thursday, April 10, 1997 9:20 AM > >To: 'Michael Randall' > >Cc: epitaxy localaccess.com; catware@worldonline.nl; billb@eskimo.com; > >harti harti.com; puthoff@aol.com; little@eden.com; bshannon@tiac.net; > >jnaudin509 aol.com; gwatson@microtronics.com.au; 'dequickert@ucdavis.edu' > >Subject: RE: Simple OU Device > > > >Hi Michael. To answer your questions: > > > >>In your design was the north poles all on one side and south poles all on > >>the opposite side of the track? > > > >yes > > > >>Were they opposite each other and not staggered? > > > >yes - and there is no space between them. They are Radio Shack flat > ceramic, about 1" x >1" x 3/16". There were only 3 sets: #1 set with 1 > magnet; #2 with 2 stacked per side; #3 >with 5 stacked. #3 was angled so > the far end was farther apart than the end near >magnets #2. Also a > cardboard 'shield' was placed over the insides of the #3 set to keep >the > ball from getting too close, as this area was beyond the end of the guiding > track. > > > >>In my design they were like the patent and I could accelerate the ball > >>through the course for and easy exit. With more magnets stacked, the ball > >>could go up a slope and then drop. I'll try your design. > >> > >>Currently building a flat track with two straight sections for a continuous > >>loop. Magnetic powered perpetual motion for a nice executive toy. But for > 10 hp? > > > >Greg's suggestion that we focus on the parameters for leaving the magnets, > and figuring >a way to have a smooth, adjustable graduated magnetic field, > are important for being >able to scale this up. > > > >A practical 10HP will come when we figure out exactly what's happening here > and how, and >use it in a different physical embodiment - unless you want a > very large machine that >has huge PM's rolling cannonballs up slopes ! > > > >Let us know how your dual flat track comes out! > > > >Dan > > > > Clear enough? > > Dan Quickert > > Dan, You're RIGHT! But, I too (I thought cause it 'ruined my birthday 4.12') did the same 'Stacked Array' until I could copy Greg's spec's to spec..! This reminds me of the 'Creations of the WEB/INTENET' profound ideas if not mine then "YOURS!" for the RFCxxx that established the NET! RFC for 'Request for Comments' comes from ALL of US! I knew I thought of 'stacked array's' myself, OR saw it here ( You're GIVEN credit ok...) NEXT STEP? or RFC??? How about Greg going to an IOU# = Identifiying OverUnity# and you can be right upthe front.. (i forgot to post. b-day weekend..opps/..burp) BITE+ = 'B'e 'I'nfinite 'T'o 'E'verything :) That's the way "we" old timers 'got the web/net up in the first place!' -Enjoy! RFC's & IOU's *DO* count! Your LOCKED into digital THEN & NOW! You claim to fame noted by at least another... LET'S BUILD ON! se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 02:23:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA04829; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 02:19:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 02:19:28 -0700 Message-ID: <01BC7D63.6E5F39A0 ppp191.enterprise.net> From: Mike Butcher To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: In defense of government spending Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:14:12 +0100 Encoding: 48 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"bfsZQ1.0.NB1.Viagp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8526 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >---------- From: Jed Rothwell[SMTP:72240.1256 CompuServe.COM] I think that I know better how to *recycle* my dollars much better than any government does. . . . Government confiscation of wealth never works. . . . Investment = Marxist/Socialist drivvle for TAXES! . . . Spinoff = $5 trillions in Liberal "poverty pimp" national debt. While I am sympathetic to this point of view, I must point out that it is oversimplified. Davis ignores history. The fact is, the U.S. and U.K. governments have played a leading role in research, technology, and infrastructure since the time of Henry VIII. Government intervention has been crucial to the development of the nation. In many cases it has been wildly successful beyond all anticipation. It has usually been controversial. Major successful government projects that took massive expenditures of tax funds and subsidies include: >Examples cut< On a purely technical front one cannot disagree that certain developments have been accelerated by government intervention but it is impossible to estimate is - at what cost and what other alternative developments have been quashed by the diversion of funds and manpower ? Many admire Singapore's economic wealth measured in cash terms but try explaining that to an artist or anyone interested in free expression, his standard of living has shrunk as the society has been forced into strict order to obtain the cash growth rate. One man's wealth is another man's ball and chain. Both world wars have shown that given specific goals, unlimited powers and the will to succeed, Government can force the production of all kinds of weird and wonderful gadgetry - at least over the short term - but at an enormous cost and in the case of Britain by turning its population into State dependent slaves. We all want to see new energy devices on the market yesterday, given enough government resources and the will to succeed it may be possible within a very short period of time. We can all then live happily ever after in our cosily warm slave huts. Mike Butcher From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 04:08:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA29903; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 04:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 04:06:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Quarks and Leptons etc. Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:05:04 +0000 Message-ID: <19970620110502.AAA21666 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"MhLvk1.0.7J7.tGcgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8527 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Vortex: The other day someone asked in a post if quarks could come out of the Cincinnati RR reactions. I would say,most probably yes, but, probably as neutrinos. A "model" that I developed for the atom, if not correct, at least helps to visualize the makeup of an atom: There are 5A - Z "entities" that make up every atom. 2A "up" or positive units 2A - Z "down" or negative units Z external electrons A - Z neutrinos Thus in the proton, 1H1, 2A = 2 "up" 2A - Z = 2 "down" Z external electrons = 1 A - Z neutrinos = 0 For the neutron, oN1 2A = 2 "up" 2A - Z = 2 "down" Z external electrons = 0 A -Z neutrinos = 1 For Deuterium: -------> + <------- - --------> + <------- - --------> + <-------- - --------> + ........> 0 (neutrino) ------> (external e-) Net nuclear charge = plus 1, Spin = 1, The nuclear magnetic moment is summed from the energy and sign of the units. When you get up to 5A - Z for Uranium 238 or Thorium 232 the thing gets a bit tedious, but, indicates that there could be neutrino-shedding and fissioning rearrangements going on, and expulsion of neutrinos from the 54 or so "surplus" neutrons, sans local heat. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 06:19:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA12931; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 06:16:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 06:16:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33AA81A8.D91425F3 microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:42:08 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: List Server Vortex Subject: Re: Now now now.... gentlemen X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <2.2.16.19970620140717.221f878e ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CWAaT3.0.n93.1Begp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8528 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Ken Smith wrote: > > >> >From: Dan Quickert > All, > > The parentage of the stacked array is known and acknowledged. It is > a good step forward. The SA is less fussy with exits and it may improve > overall performance. But there are many steps left in this long journey. We should not forget Hartman and his patent. Its been there for almost 20 years. As I have said before, I am NOT the first to do this. Maybe the first to trust in the good side of human nature and disclose to such a world wide gathering. I believe we should ALL think about many other inventors and how they hold their devices so close that NO one, even themselves, ever benefits. It is only by giving that we get back more than we gave. > The very nature of this open forum, with the Internet providing dates and > stamps for messages and suggestions, there is ample evidence of who said > what where and when. Careful observers are following the progress of the > Smott Affair with interest and accuracy. When the last smott model is > consigned to the Smithsonian (rattling cheerfully to itself) and the first > 10KVA model is sold to a household - then let's haggle about who provided > what. Until then, perhaps, we are flees argueing over the ownership of the > dog. The important thing now is to move forward. I agree. > The very fact that so few people have achieved a level roll out is > indicative of the fragile nature of this effect - as we are now employing > it. That there is something to work towards is becoming self evident - just > how to achieve that is not so obvious. There is a good deal of work to be > done here - and between us all we are ill equipped to do that. Our > resources are limited and we are playing with "fridge magnets and balls". > However, our big advantage is that we are at least working at something - > instead of talking. Ditto. > So let's keep posting and thinking. It will surely work itself out > eventually. To (loosely) quote the tank commander (Sutherland) from Kelly's > Heroes - "With all these positive waves, man. How can we fail..." > > Ken Hi Ken. Good to see such a solid approach. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 07:01:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA18534; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 06:59:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 06:59:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: 20 Jun 97 09:56:29 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: The Day After Roswell - Off topic Mindblower Message-ID: <970620135629_76016.2701_JHC63-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"2vif32.0.VX4.0pegp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8529 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: CNN has put up a file of the Phoenix lights on their Web page: http://cnn.com/US/9706/19/ufo.lights/index.html The file is in a .mov format. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 07:26:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA10305; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:23:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:23:31 -0700 Date: 20 Jun 97 10:21:01 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Transmutation evidence Message-ID: <970620142101_72240.1256_EHB77-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"lkkGu.0.xW2.Y9fgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8530 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex Barry Merriman writes: My only objection to accepting such observations as transmutation---replication aside---is that I want to see a suitable blank and/or control experiment, so there is a rigorous baseline for asserting that the perceived effects are being properly interpreted. I agree. With the electrochemical CF experiments a blank is not a problem. Most cells don't work. They show no sign of transmutation. Also, it is a good idea to reserve a chunk of the cathode material as a 'before and after' sample. Replication and high s/n rates are essential, of course. Lots more people must see it at extraordinarily high levels of confidence. They have to find hundreds of times more copper in the cathode than all of the copper contamination in the cell, or the results will not be convincing. CF experiments are held to a standard absurdly high compared to other areas of science: 5 sigma isn't enough; McKubre's 50 sigma isn't enough. (It doesn't seem to have convinced Barry Merriman yet). McKubre said: "people's attention needs to be grabbed by something that's simple, unarguable, concrete and rugged." As I wrote in I.E.: We probably do need simple and rugged machines. That is a shame and it is unfair to McKubre and other cold fusion scientists. McKubre's experiment is unarguable. It should not have to be simple, concrete or rugged. These have never been held as standards for believability in science. Things like the Fermilab top quark machine and hot fusion reactors are as far from being "simple and rugged" as anything can be. So we must have even higher levels of proof, including even macroscopic transmutations. It isn't fair, it isn't science, but human nature & politics demand absurd levels of proof, so there is no point in complaining. I do not know how easy it is to get a blank with the Cincinnati group transmutation experiment. With their previous experiment a blank is dead simple. You substitute another metal or a slightly different electrolyte and nothing unusual happens. It is like burning charcoal dust versus gunpowder. If we can convince the Cincinnati people to publish the full details of their experiment including materials and protocol, then perhaps we can get several people to replicate, and perhaps it will work. It is a long shot, but at least the experiment appears to be rugged. As always, it depends on emotions, politics and the Inventor's Disease. So much could be done, if only these inventors would act in their own best interests . . . Sigh. Barry mentioned that he would like to visit a CF experiment. There are not many in the U.S., and 95% of the time they are shut down for cathode preparation, calibration, writing about the experiment. The indomitable John Dash is usually up to something at Portland State University. Every summer he trains two or three high school students to do the experiments. They do a bang up job -- far better than most professionals. They follow directions! They say "we love doing science that grownups say is impossible." Storms will probably do a run this summer. Ragland, Little and Tinsley are all testing triodes, but they are getting no results as far as I know. CETI is doing loads of great things but they won't let you see it, so that's out. Mitch Swartz claims he is doing great things, but he won't let you see it, so that's out. Arata, E-Quest, IMRA Europe, Notoya and a bunch of Japanese companies claim they are doing great things, but they won't let you see it, so they're out. As Chris says, these people will be the forgotten footnotes of cold fusion. Los Alamos is doing great tritium experiments, but I gather Barry refuses to consider that. Most scientists tune out Claytor's work immediately -- I don't know why. Maybe because it is too good to quibble with? SRI may be doing something interesting. I haven't heard from them in a while. You can always go to the Italian National Labs. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 07:32:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA11161; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:29:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:29:23 -0700 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:29:15 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: UFO's / Transistors / Smots In-Reply-To: <19970409.185744.10038.0.tv juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0yC-f3.0.Jk2.2Ffgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8531 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Tim D Vaughan wrote: > There are a number of people who had variations of the semiconductor > transistor working before bell labs. One of the better documented was > none other than Thomas Henry Moray the inventor of the Radiant > Energy Device. Pages 70-71 of the book "The Sea of Energy" show the > drawing notarized from 1931showing the construction of his Germanium > transistor. > Moray had some working in 1925. Hi Tim! There was an old article in ANALOG titled something like "The twenty lost years of solid state electronics", which described a transistor invented by a physicist J. Edgar Lillienfeld (sp?) in 1923, patented 1928. I have the patent somewhere in my piles of stuff. It was thin film deposited on glass! In 1923! So, the aliens had to spend a whole 20 years to convince mankind to use transistors? ;) .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 08:30:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA23989; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:29:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:29:38 -0700 Date: 20 Jun 97 11:10:28 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Fake SMOT rollaway Message-ID: <970620151028_72240.1256_EHB77-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"RBoLN1.0.hs5.X7ggp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8532 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex I have improved my a fake SMOT machine to make it more like Greg's specs for the Mk II version, with the tapered array of magnets. Mine still does not work. It wouldn't be fair to draw any conclusions, because I am still out of spec. My magnets are too big and the cut at the end of the ramp is wrong. But this machine does demonstrate the difficulties. You can see what Greg is trying to accomplish. This gadget is incredibly sensitive! And finicky! When I move the magnet arrays or the rollaway track just slightly, much less than a millimeter, the performance changes completely, and it stays changed. In one configuration the ball will always drop off and roll away. When I move the outlet track up by tiny bit, the ball will drop off, bounce, and stick to left magnet. I move the left magnet array slightly, and now it sticks to the right magnet! Sometimes I can get the ball to reach the end of the raised track, roll halfway off, and hang. This is a "fake" SMOT because, like Naudin, my rollaway ramp is lower than the starting point of the ramp. Where the starting point is 0 mm, the top of the ramp is +7 mm, the rollaway ramp is -7 mm (so the total drop is 14 mm). 16 cm away from the drop point the ramp falls to -8 mm. When I make the total drop 13.5 mm instead of 14, the ball bounces up and sticks to the magnets. I am still using modeling clay. It is messy but it allows minute adjustments and it holds things in position surprisingly well. I fear this experiment may not be widely replicated until Greg ships his SMOT kits. Slight variations in things like the strength of the magnets make a huge difference. The experiment is much more difficult than you might think, just seeing the diagrams and photos. Chris is doing a serious replication -- unlike mine -- but he cannot get it to work. It is discouraging. Chris should talk to Greg on the telephone. It is a shame we cannot arrange an international video conference. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 08:31:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA24157; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:30:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:30:09 -0700 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:29:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706201529.KAA04335 dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com> From: aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki ) Subject: Whether goes Microspheres? To: vortex-l eskimo.com Cc: aki ix.netcom.com Resent-Message-ID: <"kH6mW3.0.Nv5._7ggp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8533 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: June 20, 1997 John Logajan's recent update of his website includes six new patents issued to James A. Patterson (4 to himself. 2 shared with Cravens). I read through the Abstracts for each patent. The patents were all for design detail changes of the Patterson electrolytic cell. Eugene Mallove's recent vortex report of the ANS meeting stated that a successful running cell since February did NOT have beads. To me, this was news. And the reading of the patent Abstracts reveals the changes. At the risk of seeming to be slow and lumbering, let me list (with comment) what I think are the relevant changes in the patent Abstract wordings. The list has been arranged according to increasing patent numbers. However, if the Abstracts are read by the sequential dates that they were filed, the changes become more apparent. I noticed this as I was writing this. Wasn't about to go back and rewrite this post. 1. Patent #5,607,563 filed Dec. 4, 1995 issued Mar 4, 1997 Issued to James A. Patterson and Dennis Cravens Abstract in part: "A plurality of spaced beads of closely packed conductive microspheres are positioned end to end within the housing in electrical contact with the first grid adjacent the inlet. The individual microspheres are generally isolated from one another in the absence of the liquid electrolyte. The microspheres are generally uniform in size and density and include a plated layer formed of metallic hydride which is readily combinable with Hydrogen or an isotope of hydrogen with hydrazine to form a conductive, preferably flasj coated metal layer." comment: Consistant with prior patents, repeated mention of microspheres are entered. 2. Patent #5,616,219 filed June 13, 1995 issued April 1, 1997 Issued to James A. Patterson Abstract: ---- comment: The patent filing was earlier than the first one but issued later. The Abstract essentially has the same mention of microspheres and its uniform size and plated description. It does have a mention of producing "excess heat within the water for use". 3. Patent #5,618,394 filed Jan. 16, 1996 issued April 8, 1997 Issued to James A. Patterson. Abstract: ---- comment: Abstract still mentions microsphere but the content is shorter and simplified. 4. Patent #5,628,886 filed Feb. 9, 1996 issued May 13, 1997 Issued to James A. Patterson. Abstract in part: "A Plurality of conductive particles each including a conductive metal which is readily combinable with hydrogen or an isotope of hydrogen to form a metallic hydride are positioned within the housing in electrical contact with the first grid adjacent in the inlet." comment: Here, for the first time, no mention of microspheres are given in the Abstract. This is a radical departure from Patterson's claim to fame of having invented the revolutionary plated microspheres. The date of the filing, Feb 9, 1996 is not too far from the demonstration at Power-Gen '95. This raises the question of whether beads were dispensed with (because of bead integrity problems: splitting, deforming) even back then since the actual operating column was shielded from view. 5. Patent#5,632,871 filed January 25, 1996 issued May 27, 1997 Issued to James A. Patterson Abstract in part: "A plurality of conductive particles each formed of a conductive metal which is readily combinable with hydrogen or an isotope of hydrogen to form a metallic hydride are positioned within the housing in electrical contact with the first grid adjacent the inlet. The conductive particle particles may be of any convenient regular or irregular shape, including granular." comment: This patent application was filed before the fourth one above. It raises a stronger question of whether there were beads in the Power-Gen '95 demo and subsequent demos. This Abstract is even more clear cut about not mentioning microspheres. It has added a sentence "The conductive particles may be of any convenient regular or irregular shape, including granular." The other view: Patterson is expanding it's claim beyond beads. I have also received a relevant comment from Peter Gluck that the microspheres, small to our senses, are too big, meaning the specific total surface area was not great enough, therefore the change to smaller particles. Also that the microspheres were too vulnerable. I agree. 6. Patent#5,628,887 filed April 15, 1996 issued May 13, 1997 Issued to James A Patterson and Dennis Cravens Abstract in part: "An electrolyte system and cell for EXCESS heating of water containing a conductive salt in solution." and also "The conductive particles may be of any convenient regular or irregular shape." comment: This Abstract and the one for the second patent listed here mentions "excess heating of water" and "excess heat". I wonder how the Patent Office defines these terms versus what the applicants viewed its meaning. Again there is no mention of microsphere. I guess "regular shape" can include use of microspheres (now obsolete?). Now, considering that the earliest patent filing not mentioning microsphere was back in January 25, 1996, I raise another question of the program of selling Rifex Kits in Nov., 1996 which had microsphere beads in them. Even for remediation questions, why sell beads when it looks like it is no-good over the long term? Or were justifying explanations given at the time of purchase? Or am I just crazy? -AK- ps: I saw this in Arata's approach of using Pd-black: He realized that if Pd-D cold fusion effect was a subsequent result of essentially a surface reaction of a catalytic process as Pd became loaded with deuterium, then providing the maximum surface area by using Pd-black becomes the logical choice. Therefore his ultimate development / invention and use of the Double Structured Cathode in his successful P&F type electrolytic cell. Patterson's idea of microspheres lies in the same direction since most use of Pd then were in lumps, wires, or sheets. The microspheres did not go far enough. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 09:14:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA06549; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:10:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:10:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:09:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706201609.JAA09138 sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: 3 SMOTs linked - Test passed Resent-Message-ID: <"7Cs0q.0.Ac1.Zjggp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8534 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis Nice job of drawing up your RMOD V2.0 and the construction of the unit at your web site. Alot of work! Looking forward to hearing of your research progress in this important utilitarian device. Sincerely, Michael Randall At 03:01 AM 6/19/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Today, I work on the RMOD device ( the schemes and pictures are in my web >server ) and I hope that I shall finish the testing soon...... > >GREG : Have you some videos or pictures about the 6 loop rollaround test ? > >Sincerely, > > >Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) >Email : JNaudin509 aol.com >my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ >WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 09:47:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA13095; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:45:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:45:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: SMOT FEVER Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:43:29 +0000 Message-ID: <19970620164327.AAA6423 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"e87cy.0.VC3.DEhgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8535 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To Vortex: The "fever" has spread uncontrolled across the Earth. With Jed's proximity to Atlanta's CDC there may be assistance available. Meantime, a few aspirin and lots of rest, and keep playing with your magnets, ramps, and balls. Talk about a Fool Moon! :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 10:04:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA14069; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:02:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:02:40 -0700 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706201702.KAA26796 guilder.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szdanq peseta.ucdavis.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Dan Quickert Subject: Re: Now now now.... gentlemen Resent-Message-ID: <"nRp2v3.0.kR3.lUhgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8536 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Looks like maybe I need to explain myself here: As I said in the original post: > Pardon me, but since this has come up as an issue: > > I wasn't looking for credit on this, but if credit is being given, well... Which means exactly that: I don't necessarily feel a need for credit for the idea, but if you *are* going to give someone credit for it, please credit the right person(s). I think it was a fairly obvious way to get a graduated mag field, probably many had the idea concurrently. I just broadcast it first. Everyone has contributed something here, and I think it's a bit early to start naming the parts for people. So maybe we could call this magnet configuration by a neutral name, like Ken Smith's "stacked array". The point was, *if* credit is going to be given for something, let's be careful about making the correct attribution. I think Greg, in particular, should be mindful of this since he's the 'group leader' on this particular project. keep on rollin' them balls, Dan From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 11:50:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA05431; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: 20 Jun 97 14:45:51 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Whether goes Microspheres? Message-ID: <970620184550_72240.1256_EHB130-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"gt5ud.0.mK1.S1jgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8537 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex Akira Kawasaki writes: It raises a stronger question of whether there were beads in the Power-Gen '95 demo and subsequent demos. There definitely were beads in the Power-Gen '95 demo. I saw them. They were covered with black tape most of the time. This was the multiple cathode design. It has a severe drawback, ultimately fatal: oxygen from one anode saturates the next, upstream cathode. I have also received a relevant comment from Peter Gluck that the microspheres, small to our senses, are too big, meaning the specific total surface area was not great enough, therefore the change to smaller particles. Also that the microspheres were too vulnerable. I agree. Correct on both points, I think. Now, considering that the earliest patent filing not mentioning microsphere was back in January 25, 1996, I raise another question of the program of selling Rifex Kits in Nov., 1996 which had microsphere beads in them. Even for remediation questions, why sell beads when it looks like it is no-good over the long term? Or were justifying explanations given at the time of purchase? Or am I just crazy? No justification is called for. I expect CETI simply cannot keep up with its own internal progress. By the time the Rifex Kits were ready for sale, they were obsolete. Any company selling high tech goods has this problem. Greg Watson must deal with an extreme example. If he had shipped out his SMOT kits last week they would have been seriously obsolete before the postman delivered them. I believe CETI's present approach was designed last year. Patterson, McKubre and Fleischmann were discussing it offstage in loud voices during ICCF6. I did not sign a secrecy agreement but I am afraid it would be bad form for me to reveal details. ("Not on," as the Brits say.) - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 12:37:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA15075; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:33:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: hheffner corecom.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:31:29 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Pd Sims, JR vrs EK Resent-Message-ID: <"o-lDj.0.Ph3.Gijgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8538 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:32 PM 6/19/97, Barry Merriman wrote: >Jed Rothwell wrote: >> >> Who would >> argue that the copper came from contamination when the mass >> of it exceeds all contamination in the cell, and when it is only >> found below the surface? .... I doubt any serious >> scientist would suggest such hocus-pocus. >> > >I would argue it, to a certain point. My only objection to >accepting such observations as transmutation---replication >aside---is that I want to see a suitable blank and/or >control experiment, so there is a rigorous baseline for asserting >that the perceived effects are being properly interpreted. > > >-- >Barry Merriman If achieving a high percentage of transmutation is a process of some duration, as for example the several hour CETI uranium experiment indicates, then a good control should be provided by stopping before doing a large amount of transmuting, or even by providing a range of stopping times. If the transmutation is a SEM anomaly, then the results should be similar, i.e. a flat line for each element. If the process is logarithmicly declining process, that should show up as well. If compound processes are involved, i.e. transmutation of products, then that would be evident as well with enough data points gathered. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 12:43:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA16578; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:38:17 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Attempt at a new type of RMOD Resent-Message-ID: <"_s2141.0.y24.dojgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8539 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 8:35 AM 6/20/97, Hamdi Ucar wrote: >Hi, > >Bob Horst wrote: > >> Last weekend, I attempted to build a Rotating OU Device of my own >> design. Unfortunately it shows no signs of OU, so I am giving up -- >> maybe this will be of some help to others, at least giving you one >> idea not to try. > >Greg's design is mostly based on the conversion of the kinetic energy to >magnetic one, different speeds and different time intervals. He is >always emphasize on it. If it is really key point of extracting the >energy, variable speed of the ball while crossing the fields are >necessary. On the contrary your wheel have a large momentum when >comparing it to a single ball. As a result the speed of the wheel will >not be changed dramatically by the magnetic forces. Maybe this is the >reason of the failure. > >Regards, > >Hamdi Ucar Doesn't seem likely. What's the difference between the force caused by inertia and gravity? What's the difference between potential energy of increased height vs the equivalent amount in momentum? That extra mass should help "rollaway" just as well as a downward slope and/or the angular momentum of the ball. The problem must be due to improper (not analagous) field shape, or maybe a change in field dynamics due to lack of ball rotation. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 12:46:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA22201; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:43:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:43:59 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970620125122.006861a0 mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy mail.localaccess.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:51:25 -0700 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: A Confirming Closed-Loop SMOT??? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"84o9d.0.pQ5.zrjgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8540 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 09:11 AM 6/19/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Epitaxy, > >Craig Haynie had some good questions. I also have some questions: > >1. What are the individual neo mag sizes? Mag stacking arrangement? 1"x1.5"x1.5". Ones straight row of magnets per each mag. array. N-S configuration between 2 rows. >2. How did you make the 90 deg turn connections between the ramps? Model railroad track. >From what you've said about the ball jumping off the track and sticking to >the metal back plate, it sounds like what Greg, myself and others noticed. >That the mag field strength is greater on the metal plate edges by a factor >or 3 to 4 times greater. The ball is just seeking the greater mag field. >Also the 1/8" steel backing plate seems to be saturated by the very strong >neo magnets. > >Have you tried adding more metal backing plates to delute the mag field >strenght at the plate edges? Yes, more thickness did not help, and misaligned everything. > >Congradulations! and thank you for sharing your research experiments. > >Thanks, >Michael Randall > >At 07:26 AM 6/19/97 +0000, you wrote: >>Epitaxy: >> >>Do I understand correctly, from reading your report on Greg Watson's >>page, that you've also achieved a complete closed-loop with your SMOT >>system, Yes, 5 loops have rotated the device 90 degrees in 4 directions, have set the >>device up in several places over a 20 mile area, and have placed it on a >>soft surface to damped vibrations, and in all these cases, you get a >>Closed Loop??? A chaotic closed loop (5 circuits max), then the ball "derails" >>If so, what is the maximum number of revolutions that you've achieved? 5 for 30 seconds. (P.S. I've seen somedy wrongly quote 6, maybe they meant 6 seconds per 1 rev.) >>What is the total time period of a revolution? 6seconds >> What is the total track distance? apx. 100" >> >>Thanks, >> >>Craig Haynie >> >> >> > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 13:00:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA26261; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:57:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:57:46 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:56:28 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Credit for the wedge idea Resent-Message-ID: <"wDHEf3.0.FQ6.v2kgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8541 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Adding some words of clarification or making minor adaptations or even building a significantly differing embodyment of an invention, though it may be good engineering, does not somehow nullify the orginal invention. It could be argued that the wedge idea falls under the Hartman patent due to the magnet arrays adjacent to the track, and further that the wedge idea is an obvious extension of Hartman's design since Hartman shows a wedge shape embodiment of his patent, where the wedge is located at the end of the ramp. The purpose of Hartman's inital wide magnet separation and the staggering of the magnets, followed by more densly packed magnets, and finally additional magnets stacked (and skewed) at the end of the ramp all clearly are provided to make for an increasing field strength over the length of the ramp. On the other hand, the 1-2-3-4-5 stack idea is simple to implement and, if shown to be especially effective, might be patentable if not already invented, though it would still be subordinate to Hartman's patent. Seems to me if credit is to be passed out at this juncture, it should be to Greg for doing such a great job of communicating, organizing and motivating the work. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 13:26:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA23603; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:17:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:17:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: "Scudder,Henry J" To: Epitaxy , Vortex-L Subject: closing the loop Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:13:00 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6pXtx2.0.fm5.LLkgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8542 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: What is the change in magnetization of the steel ball, before and after a closed loop run? This would be worth measuring, to get a handle on what is happening. Hank Scudder From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 13:34:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA02353; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:30:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:30:28 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33AAE851.69B3 math.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:30:09 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Transmutation evidence References: <970620142101_72240.1256_EHB77-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bVam71.0.ha.ZXkgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8543 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > > McKubre's 50 sigma isn't enough. (It doesn't > seem to have convinced Barry Merriman yet). Honestly, I simply have not considered his work in detail, so I have not rendered any conclusion wither way... > Barry mentioned that he would like to visit a CF experiment. Indeed I would. I have tried on a number of occasions with various groups, to varying degrees, but I have yet to even physically see a actively functioning CF device, much less spend the desirable "12 hours locked in a room" that Gene mentioned. Now, it is totally true that I have not tried as hard as you, Gene and Chris have. So, I guess one could say I should try harder. But on the other hand, I have tried harder than most, and harder than what it has taken for me to see other non-public devices of military or industrial significance. As you point out, most of the groups making the big claims will not allow you to see a functioning device in detail. Some are more polite than others about it. > I gather Barry refuses to consider > that. Most scientists tune out Claytor's work immediately -- I > don't know why. No, I'll probably stop by and visit Claytor next time I'm at LANL, at least to chat. Don't know what to make of his work right now. Having 2000 eV particles in the system worries me a little, just as a matter of prinicple. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 14:16:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA14271; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:07:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:07:52 -0700 Date: 20 Jun 97 17:06:01 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Credit for the wedge idea Message-ID: <970620210601_76016.2701_JHC69-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"j1_FJ.0.rU3.d4lgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8544 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mr. Heffner said, >>Seems to me if credit is to be passed out at this juncture, it should be to Greg for doing such a great job of communicating, organizing and motivating the work.<< Amen! I claim no "credit" for the wedged magnets and did not intend to. It's the same thing that Greg does with the angled magnets. I only contended that it was easier to implement and was trying to bop mon bon ami, Tinsley, in the gob for not trying it earlier. Single-minded old cuss, he is -- but ya gotta luv him. My message was intended to be sent to him via private email; but, he said he saw it on the list. Alas, "To err is human, but to really screw up requires a computer." One thing about Chris, if he says his Ragland cell is performing ou, you can take it to the bank. I queried him elsewhere if his cell had the Teflon barrier around the palladium to avoid direct current paths to the metal. He said he saw no plastic barrier. I know I read that Ragland used this somewhere; but, I can't remember where. Was it here? Maybe it was in the IE (#11?) article. Does anyone know? My IE issues are out on loan to septics. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 14:33:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA06632; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: 20 Jun 97 17:23:49 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Transmutation evidence Message-ID: <970620212349_76016.2701_JHC65-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"CwzOI.0.Vd1.ANlgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8545 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math said in reply to Jed: Jed: Barry mentioned that he would like to visit a CF experiment. Barry: Indeed I would. I have tried on a number of occasions with various groups, to varying degrees, but I have yet to even physically see a actively functioning CF device, . . . Interesting. That is similar to what John Huizenga said prior to visiting Dr. Robert T. Bush at Cal St. Poly at 3801 West Temple Ave. in Pomona. Let's see (taking out map). . . Hey! Pomona is only one inch east of downtown LA! I bet Gene Mallove could set you up with Dr. Bush, Barry. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 14:37:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA07994; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:34:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:34:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: hheffner corecom.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:32:27 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Symmetric neutrino emission Resent-Message-ID: <"P2TgP2.0.qy1.iTlgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8546 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If neutrino emission from the waveform collapse of Bose condensates tends to be symmetric, then a much larger percentage of the momentum, and thus energy, would be carried by the neutrinos. The hadrons need not "recoil" at all, becuse the recoil is principly carried by the light neutrinos going the opposite direction. If a large number of neutrinos are emitted in uniformly random directions, then, even by chance, a high degree of symmetry would be obtained. If there is some mechanism of the waveform collapse that demands or approximates exact pairwise symmetry, all the better. It is of special interest also that the spring like mechanisms or processes of elastic collisions do not necessarily apply to an event that happens instantaneously. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 14:46:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA25118; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:44:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:44:29 -0700 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706202144.OAA20566 franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szdanq peseta.ucdavis.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Dan Quickert Subject: Re: Credit for the wedge idea Resent-Message-ID: <"uhIj53.0.O86.xclgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8547 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace wrote: [big snip] > >Seems to me if credit is to be passed out at this juncture, it should be to >Greg for doing such a great job of communicating, organizing and motivating >the work. > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner > Yes! couldn't have said it better myself (and didn't :-) Dan From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 15:12:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA29651; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:10:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:10:39 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:13:52 -0600 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: USA Today17/ June reports giant UFO flies over Pheonix Az USA Resent-Message-ID: <"WLpjq1.0.8F7.U_lgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8548 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >At 2:44 PM 6/18/97, Barry Merriman wrote: >>Horace Heffner wrote: >>> >>> If it's for real it seems on topic to me. A craft 1 mi. long floating >>> along at 30 mi/hr. sounds like fairly good evidence >> >>Uh...where did this "craft" go? > >I did say "If it's for real..." didn't I? Saying "If A then B" is not the >same as saying "A". If I had to guess I'd say Area 51. > >>I think our jets---or >>a bicycle---would be able to track it fairly well. >>-- >>Barry Merriman > >Didn't it zip out of sight to the south after the 3 hours? > >A similar large chevron shaped craft was sighted in NY state (Long Island?) >some months back as well. > >Regards, Horace Heffner Well, from the FWIW (for what its worth) Dept. re the above Phoenix thread: Richard Hoagland has apparently made a prediction on which he will "stand or fall"..... while I am very skeptical of the following, I will endeavor to keep an open mind and evaluate Hoagland by virtue of his explicit prediction regarding "June 19-25". Evan Soule' ________________________________________ On March 13, 1997 at approximately 8:20 PM a very strange thing happened in Phoenix Arizona. Suddenly a string of six lights appeared over the city and remained there fro a 106 minutes. Numerous photographers took the opportunity to film the incident and you may view a short portion of this film by simply calling: http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/events/images/phoenix.lights.mov This incident was first brought to our attention by Mr. William 'Bill' Hamilton III who has been doing UFO research for 21 years as a field investigator. Bill stated that similar sightings have continued ever since. As usual, the sighting was brought immediately to the attention of the internet and radio talk show host Art Bell. In his usual excellent journalist coverage Art fully discussed the sighting. Over the ensuing three months the sighting began to dim in people's minds. Then without warning, on June 19, 1997 USA Today effected a front page nationwide story on the March 13 Phoenix sighting. Within hours, ABC, NBC, and CBS began to cover the story. CNN has run coverage on the sighting basically on a hour-by-hour basis ever since. To view the entire CNN article you may use the following url: http://cnn.com/US/9706/19/ufo.lights/index.html Additionally, CNN has a live video feed that will provide you with a 4 minute broadcast on the Phoenix Lights at: http://cnn.com/US/9706/19/ufo.lights/video.html On Tuesday of this week during a radio interview, Richard Hoagland, founder of the Enterprise Mission (http://www.enterprisemission.com ), science reporter for Walter Cronkite, winner of the Angstrom Science Award, and initial discoverer of water on Europa (nearly 18 years ago) stated emphatically that the Mars Pathfinder probe would disappear sometime between June 19-25. Richard C. Hoagland has placed his neck on the chopping block with his astounding prediction that NASA is planning some high tech slight of hand within the next week. This, to bring about a stunning change in plans for the Pathfinder probe's landing site on Mars. "Sometime between June 19th and the 25th NASA will announce that the Mars Probe has been lost," Hoagland related to Bell's listeners. During the reported lost time, the last data uplink from earth to the probe will occur. A minute course correction, a programmed burn of it's side thrusters to slow it's speed, and then several days later........."Oh my God! We have relocated the lost probe".....NASA's PR machine will shout to the world. Not only this, but the stunning announcement that due to problems in uploading the latest data, a new landing date and site must be substituted. Instead of a July 4th landing at it's original location on the red planet, the new arrival date will be July 20th at CYDONIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This daring prediction comes from a myriad of redundant research data collected over a long period of time by Mr. Hoagland and his Enterprise Mission team based out of New York City. The data, gathered since the earliest NASA missions into earth orbit and to outerspace has tied together significant, direct, and incredibly complex relationships between nearly all mission launch times, Moon and Mars landing site selection date and times with certain alignments with the Orion and Sirius star systems. In addition Hoagland ties in a deep connection between men of Egyptian lineage, the pyramids themselves and a surprising new connection to the city of Phoenix, Arizona. He indicates something of monumental importance may occur in or around Phoenix sometime leading up to or around the time of Pathfinders landing at Cydonia. It might be a diversion from, or an event in counterpart to the Mars landing. He urges the citizenry of Phoenix to keep a close eye out for any unusual investigative teams, possibly military in nature, using strange equipment to listen, look, or dig for something unusual. A detailed report from Mr. Hoagland will be appearing on the Enterprise Mission website within the next two to three days encapsulating all the research that has led him to his monumental prediction. Keep an eye on this webpage for a clearer description of what went into this latest Hoagland spin on NASA's secret agenda and what he believes to be the culmination of a master power struggle between two factions within NASA's inner control circle. Also mentioned in detail were the activities surrounding the web's long awaited appearance of the NASA STS-80 Video. According to Richard, someone within the confines of the Cheyenne Mountain defense complex, or one of it's several mirrored monitoring sites around the world, was operating the remote cameras on the shuttle when the preported Extraterrestrial event occurred over the west coast of South America in a clearly anticipated manner. snip-- http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/nasa/images/sts_80.avi snip-- NASA Live Cam/Mission Data http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/nasa/nasacams.shtml Mars - Pathfinder Live Cams http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/nasa/mars-pathfinder.shtml Mars - Surveyor Live Cams http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/nasa/mars-surveyor.shtml snip-- ISO Daily News http://www.in-search-of.com/flash.shtml Above prepared by Dr. Dan Woolman From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 15:16:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA30385; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:15:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:15:00 -0700 From: Puthoff aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970620181452_946410386 emout09.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Day After Roswell - Off topic Mindblower Resent-Message-ID: <"UVFVo3.0.hQ7.Z3mgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8549 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Corso has a fine reputation, having been a star witness before congressional committees on both the Korean POW issue, and on the loss of "ferret flights" of ELINT planes during the Cold War (see Time, U.S. News and World Report, etc., plus books, from the early '90's). If his integrity could have been successfully challenged, these are the issues for which many would have liked to have seen his credibility tarnished, but it was not. Hal Puthoff From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 16:47:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA00369; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33AB15BF.F99 math.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:43:59 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Transmutation evidence References: <970620212349_76016.2701_JHC65-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ezddV2.0.g5.uNngp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8550 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry Blanton wrote: > > (taking out map). . . Hey! Pomona is only one inch east of > downtown LA! > > I bet Gene Mallove could set you up with Dr. Bush, Barry. > Such a meeting/collaboration has in fact been in the "coming soon" stage of negotiations for 9 months now---but it has never actually come. If Gene/Jed would put in a good word, maybe it would speed up the process. I have not been beating down their door, since I don't want to antagonize or frighten them, but I have asked several times to see/work with their device, and they seem agreeable but it never actually comes to pass. Probably a good time for me to revisit the issue with more forcefulness. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 17:23:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA07380; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:20:32 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: USA Today17/ June reports giant UFO flies over Pheonix Az USA Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 00:19:02 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <33af1d34.7197971 mail.eisa.net.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PMxnv.0.Ep1.7vngp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8551 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:13:52 -0600, Evan Soule wrote: [snip] >On March 13, 1997 at approximately 8:20 PM a very strange thing >happened in Phoenix Arizona. Suddenly a string of six lights appeared >over the city and remained there fro a 106 minutes. Numerous >photographers took the opportunity to film the incident and you may >view a short portion of this film by simply calling: > >http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/events/images/phoenix.lights.mov > I noticed that the lights appear to go on and off in patterns. Perhaps the five lights on the right represent bits. Does anyone know enough Morse code to be able to say whether or not there is an apparent message here? >This incident was first brought to our attention by Mr. William 'Bill' >Hamilton III who has been doing UFO research for 21 years as a field >investigator. Bill stated that similar sightings have continued ever >since. [snip] Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 17:41:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA10461; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:39:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:39:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:37:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199706210037.RAA00064 Au.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: tessien oro.net (Ross Tessien) Subject: Russian Research Contacts, chemo- astro- connection Resent-Message-ID: <"kQUWp1.0.KZ2.oAogp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8552 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Vor; A week or so ago I posted a followup on the conference on fundamenental physical mechanisms for the universe, and in it mentioned some research performed in Russia regarding the reactivity of a certain system as a function of time. The data collected showed strong correlation to the position of the moon, time of day, ie orientation of the sun, and other effects. They noticed effects at sunset and sunrise if I recall, and they had the fortune of having a total solar eclipse pass directly overhead of several labs during the experiment. The experiment as I understand, repeated a given reaction every minute for a perior of years, and measured how long it took for the reaction to change color, ie, complete the reaction to a fixed degree on each test. Each test took about 5 seconds or so, and the test was repeated on one minute intervals. I am going from memory here, but the above was the gist of the set up. I saw the graphs in a book written in Russian, and the deviations during the total eclipse were way out of the mud of measurement error. Natalia responded that it was fine if any one was interested in contacting the researchers involved, and that they had the information back in Russia. Below is a copy of her letter to me with some email addresses of the other researchers if anyone is interested. Ross Tessien Hi, Ross, As to my work in Russia, you and any of your friends can ask directly my colleagues: kolombet venus.iteb.serpukhov.su (Valery Kolombet) or shnoll venus.iteb.serpukhov.su (Prof. Simon Shnoll, head of the lab) I have no results here, but I think that my colleagues are interested in "sharing the observations" and contacts. We have publications in English, first of all in journal "Biophysics" which is translated in English(Pergamon Press). Find Shnol, Kolombet or Udaltsova in 1981 - 1995 issues. I forwarded your letter to Alex, may be he has what to say else. Thank you, Glad to have latters from you, Natasha From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 17:43:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA01331; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:41:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:41:46 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33AB2342.473A math.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:41:38 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: USA Today17/ June reports giant UFO flies over Pheonix Az USA References: <33af1d34.7197971@mail.eisa.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dU9mU2.0.cK.9Dogp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8553 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > Does anyone know > enough Morse code to be able to say whether or not there is an > apparent message here? > A very good idea. I presume that *if* there is a message encoded in Morse code or some other simple code, it would be along the lines of "This is a hoax!". -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 18:02:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA14178; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 08:58:27 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970621085850.26df8260 po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8 po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: mpower consultants Subject: Rotary failure modes (was: Attempt.new.type.RMOD) Resent-Message-ID: <"I9r4g2.0.JT3.pTogp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8554 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Horace Heffner posted the following (edited for brevity) at 11:38 1997.06.20 -0800: >At 8:35 AM 6/20/97, Hamdi Ucar wrote: > >> >>Greg's design is mostly based on the conversion of the kinetic energy to >>magnetic one, different speeds and different time intervals. He is >>always emphasize on it. If it is really key point of extracting the >>energy, variable speed of the ball while crossing the fields are >>necessary. On the contrary your wheel have a large momentum when >>comparing it to a single ball. As a result the speed of the wheel will >>not be changed dramatically by the magnetic forces. Maybe this is the >>reason of the failure. >> >Doesn't seem likely. What's the difference between the force caused by >inertia and gravity? What's the difference between potential energy of >increased height vs the equivalent amount in momentum? That extra mass >should help "rollaway" just as well as a downward slope and/or the angular >momentum of the ball. The problem must be due to improper (not analagous) >field shape, or maybe a change in field dynamics due to lack of ball >rotation. > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner > Sorry Folks, but from my own experiments, he seems to have hit the nail on the head. In rotary 'fixed-disc' systems which use inertia as a key component, the effect disappears. In the SMOT, the ball is free to accelerate/decelerate through the mag field/grav field differential. Another factor appears to be the linked magnetic fields, which may also help account for the difficulty in linking the linear SMOT's. I may not be able to describe this accurately, but I'll give it a go: The circular magnetic devices generally consist of a number of magnets arranged in various fashions around a common center. All of the various arrangements I have assembled had one point in common: the magnetic fields blend together, and there is no longer an effective 'asymmetric (sawtooth) cog' such as exists on the SMOT. And thirdly, inertia appears to be an unsuitable replacement for gravity as a counterpart force for the magnetic component of the SMOT. All of the rotary devices which do not use gravity as a counterbalance to the magnetic differential seem to grind to a halt. My observation is that the effect of the SMOT is a product of the differential accelerations induced by a magnetic field counterbalanced by a gravity field. The difference between inertia and Gravity should be obvious: in the magnetic field the backforce provided by inertia declines as the field is worked against (i.e. - momentum [K.E.] is dissipated). gravity provides a constant force (we generally *assume* - be careful here!) which does not lessen during work in the magnetic field. so sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but... MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM * http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 * (-latest update: 1997.06.15.12:30-) ***************************************************** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 18:20:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA10798; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:18:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:18:40 -0700 Message-Id: <33AB03BC.F71A17D5 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:27:08 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: USA Today17/ June reports giant UFO flies over Pheonix Az USA X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <33af1d34.7197971@mail.eisa.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VvJQQ1.0.ee2.llogp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8555 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > I noticed that the lights appear to go on and off in patterns. > Perhaps the five lights on the right represent bits. Does anyone know > enough Morse code to be able to say whether or not there is an > apparent message here? > The movie file is too large for my slow connection. Could you give more information on the sequence of the lights. If they are 5 of them are blinking like the data bits in patterns, the most popular 5 bits code system is the the telex standard. Anyway, it can be easily interpreted if they carry information. Regards, Hamdi Ucar General Manager and Machine Level Code Programmer Orchestra Communications Systems Ltd. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 18:43:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA22475; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:41:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:41:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:38:40 -1000 To: Vortex-L From: Rick Monteverde Subject: SMOT as Time Machine (real experiments included!) Resent-Message-ID: <"VwIdx1.0.zU5.h4pgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8556 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I still can't get a SMOT to do anything but drive me nuts, so here's a post in that vein: You have two tracks side by side on a very slight downslope, track A with no magnets, and track B with a magnet array (loose spacing) along its length. Let the ball roll down A and note the time it takes to get to the end of the track. Now try B. Lots faster, but not much momentum at the end, unlike A which has slowly accelerated. (B does a "fake rollaway" due to the slight downslope, wide magnet spacing, and a flared exit.) Haven't tried this yet with a true horizontal rollout track beyond the slightly sloped part to compare total energy, but over a track about 2/3 meter long, I get 7 seconds for A versus 2 seconds for B. B has a nearly half meter long magnet array. It beats A really bad if the measurement is taken over just the magnet array length. I see a gain in power here, but I'm not sure about energy. Power is energy/time, so it looks like at least we're gaining some free *time*, if not free energy! Time = money, right? HECO will be so pleased to know this when I pay next month's electric bill with a bag of SMOT balls. "But, they're really magic beans, see..." A gradient of time is also "gravity", but I'm not ready to go there just now. Horizontal track multi-linked SMOTs remind me of that old sci-fi idea about drilling perfectly straight tunnels through the earth so low-friction gravity trains could 'fall' between any two points on the earth's surface in 1:54 or whatever the time factor is. Maybe if we lined our roads with big magnets (or recycled iron stuff? - is the idea reversable?), we could zip to anywhere we wanted to for free. Instead of a driveway, you'd have a spur section and a blue hole at the end to drop through to your sunken garage (better get that suspension upgraded on the DeLorean). - Rick Monteverde, gently deteriorating in: Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 18:55:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA25285; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:53:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970621085850.26df8260 po.pacific.net.sg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:51:17 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Rotary failure modes (was: Attempt.new.type.RMOD) Resent-Message-ID: <"Up2Hn3.0._A6.TGpgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8557 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mpower wrote: > Another factor appears to be the linked magnetic > fields, which may also help account for the > difficulty in linking the linear SMOT's. I find no difficulty at all linking linear horizontal SMOTs. Just butt staggered arrays nose to tail. I use a single magnet in the joints though to smooth the ride and reduce the cogging. So it's magnets stacked: 1-2-3-4, 2-3-4, 2-3-4 etc. I get the impression this kind of array could grow quite long, but I would think there'd be a limit even in horizontal arrays. I don't own enough magnets to find out. However if the idea can be reversed, with arrays of iron along the track and a magnet-bearing cart instead of a SMOT ball... But I think you're right on about circular failure. The "gradient" or something disappears on a tightly closed loop of arrays. And I still wonder if a constant elastic force would substitute for gravity. That is, of course, besides the question of whether this stuff is really is OU at all. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 19:26:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA29457; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33AB11E8.C8B87B71 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 03:27:36 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Re: SMOT as Time Machine (real experiments included!) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"suQeY3.0.6C7.gfpgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8558 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I tried something like this earlier and posted at 10 Jun 1997 19:31:41 as "Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT" With this setup I able to compare the the effect of the magnet system. Quotes from this one: I made lot of rampless SMOT experiments two days ago and get null results. My experiment setup was like this: L-\o MMMMMMMMMM \_______________________________________________________________|-L A B P The Roll down ramp(A) is 10 degree inclineded and Ball is started with 1 cm potential energy. Track B is 1 meter long and slightly inclined up to restore the 10 mm drop from the start. (L-)'s shows the same level 25 mm diameter ball is used. track inner spacing is 12 mm. When no magnets are present, released ball from ramp A roll until the point p and return. Track-ball frictions are minimized so the ball keep rolled and swing about a minute until full stop at bottom of A. When magnets are inserted in various configurations( classical, chevron arrangements and its variations, single top magnet arrays) the ball does not roll never beyond point p. On well balanced arrangements and within smooth acceleration deceleration schemes (which ensure ball rolling without sliding) equalize the point p. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 19:55:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA03326; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:51:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:51:40 -0700 Message-ID: <33AB41E0.7DDD interlaced.net> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:52:16 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: PARKING-LOT SMOT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uEBYg1.0.tp.x6qgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8559 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: OK, OK, this SMOT thing is interfering with my kitchen remodel! Suggestion: Everyone with several linked SMOTS should agree to meet at some parking lot - maybe in Kansas City - and set up all their SMOTS in a big circle. I mean a "big" circle!! If we can't get 40 or 50 circled SMOTS to run non-stop, then, I say tell the SMOTS to "pound salt"! All this takes is linked SMOTs running on a level spot. It would take a "standard gage" ball, but maybe that is doable. Or, maybe we need a SMOT "angel" - a veritable magnet "Magnet" with an unlimited supply of magnets - yeh, that's it - we apply Jed's criteria for research funding and require that if SMOTs really work, then why won't some magnet magnet fund the parking-lot experiment? Look at all the magnet sales potential if SMOTs can be demonstrated in a really wild way! I visualize a quiet summer morning. On some main street, USA (since I live there) a respectful but eager crowd waits for a sign. Down the center of main street runs a line of small ramps, motionless and silent. Then, in the distance - barely audible in the morning still - errrr-clack, errrr-clack, errrr-clack, ERRRR-CLACK, ERRRR-CLACK, errrr-clack, errrr-clack, errrr-clack ........... a tiny steel ball fades into the rising sun -----. The rest is history. Sigh! Frank Stenger (my old chevron magnet array sits quietly on the floor beside me - gathering dust - while my duties take my attention elsewhere.) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 20:36:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA11027; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:31:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:31:51 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33AB4B22.54EC math.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:31:46 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: something rotten in SMOT? References: <33AB41E0.7DDD interlaced.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bTbWC.0.Ci2.diqgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8560 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Francis J. Stenger wrote: > > Suggestion: Everyone with several linked SMOTS should agree to meet > at some parking lot ... Better suggestion: Greg Watson provides kit containing prefabricated closed loop SMOT. I hate to say I told you so, but so far it appears as I predicted---unless Greg himslef provides copies of the device, it is not going to be replicatable. This does not necessarily mean that his device never "worked". It is just that my experience investigating anomalous claims shows they are never easily and independently reproducible. If the inventor belives in his device, it makes *much* more sense for him to provide demo copies for testing, rather than instructions for copying. On a skeptical note, we observe that many of the great "free energy" enthusiasts and their brethren have provided instructions/patents for duplication, but never the working duplicates themselves. Why doesn't just *one* of them break with tradition and provide accesible working protoypes? I guess they are not *that* anxious to alter the future of civilization.... -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 21:05:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA19910; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:03:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:03:27 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: something rotten in SMOT? (Literature on web) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 04:03:11 +0000 Message-ID: <19970621040309.AAA19853 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"Dvl741.0.ws4.DArgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8561 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Okay youse guys try a bit of science. Using Magnetocaloric as a keyword run your web search engine (like Infoseek) Check out; www.aps.org/BAPSMAR96/abs/S2230009.html Also might check www.aip.org If your gonna play the game you gotta follow the rules. :-) Regards, Frederick At 03:31 AM 6/21/97 +0000, Barry wrote: >Francis J. Stenger wrote: >> > >> Suggestion: Everyone with several linked SMOTS should agree to meet >> at some parking lot ... > >Better suggestion: Greg Watson provides kit containing >prefabricated closed loop SMOT. > >I hate to say I told you so, but so far it appears as I >predicted---unless Greg himslef provides copies of the >device, it is not going to be replicatable. > >This does not necessarily mean that his device never >"worked". It is just that my experience investigating >anomalous claims shows they are never easily and >independently reproducible. If the inventor belives in >his device, it makes *much* more sense for him to provide >demo copies for testing, rather than instructions for >copying. > >On a skeptical note, we observe that many of the great "free energy" >enthusiasts and their brethren have provided instructions/patents for >duplication, but never the working duplicates themselves. Why >doesn't just *one* of them break with tradition and provide accesible >working protoypes? I guess they are not *that* anxious to >alter the future of civilization.... > > > >-- >Barry Merriman >Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program >Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math >email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 21:22:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA26233; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:21:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:21:08 -0700 Message-Id: <33AB2EAB.A3CB3272 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 05:30:19 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: SPACED OUT: "BREAKTHROUGH PROPULSION PHYSICS WORKSHOP." X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RkC51.0.iP6.oQrgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8562 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi all, This is not new but I did not hear about from vortex on this item. http://149.28.112.5/WN/wn053097.html from Bob Park, Whats New, American Physical Society "http://www.aps.org/WN/toc.html" 2. SPACED OUT: "BREAKTHROUGH PROPULSION PHYSICS WORKSHOP." If the laws of physics aren't working for you, change 'em. The NASA Lewis Research Center in Ohio is sponsoring a workshop in August "to begin the rigorous search for the propulsion breakthroughs that could revolutionize space flight and enable human voyages to other star systems." Specifically, discoveries are sought that: (1) eliminate the need for propellant; (2) attain maximum speed through the modification of spacetime; (3) produce unlimited energy on­board. Thirteen invited speakers will explain such revolutionary concepts as superluminal velocities, gravity shields, warp drives, and extracting energy from the vacuum. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 22:02:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA27414; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:00:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:00:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Davis To: Hamdi Ucar Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:59:32 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <33AB2EAB.A3CB3272 verisoft.com.tr> X-Mailer: YAM 1.3.4 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck Organization: ROSHI Corporation Subject: Re: SPACED OUT: "BREAKTHROUGH PROPULSION PHYSICS WORKSHOP." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"WKAZR1.0.Gi6.50sgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8563 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 20-Jun-97, Hamdi Ucar wrote: >2. SPACED OUT: "BREAKTHROUGH PROPULSION PHYSICS WORKSHOP." = >If the laws of physics aren't working for you, change 'em. The NASA >Lewis Research Center in Ohio is sponsoring a workshop in August "to >begin the rigorous search for the propulsion breakthroughs that could >revolutionize space flight and enable human voyages to other star >systems." Specifically, discoveries are sought that: (1) eliminate the >need for propellant; (2) attain maximum speed through the modification >of spacetime; (3) produce unlimited energy on=ADboard. Thirteen invited >speakers will explain such revolutionary concepts as superluminal >velocities, gravity shields, warp drives, and extracting energy from the= >vacuum. = Hmmm, I do that every night, at will ;^) -- = .-. .-.= / \ .-. .-. / = \ / \ / \ .-. _ .-. / \ / = \ -/--Chuck Davis -------\-----/---\---/-\---/---\-----/-----\-------/-----= --\-- RoshiCorp ROSHI.com \ / \_/ `-' \ / \ / \ / `-' `-' \ / `-' `-' www.his.com/~emerald7/roshi.cmp/roshi.html From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 22:49:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA18634; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:44:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:44:41 -0700 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:44:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Martin Sevior To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Very quick report on SMOT V2.0 beta. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"vrXQ21.0.0Z4.8fsgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8564 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, here's a very quick report on my playing with the SMOT v2.0 beta. I followed Greg's design very closely I think. At least I have the same brand of Magnets made by Jarcar he uses. The machincal setup is far from ideal though. I'd really screw adjustments everywhere. That would take real effort though. 1. It's much easier to get the SMOT 2.0 to work as a ramp. I got it to work with almost no effort. 2. I can get at least 25% more lift with the v2.0. (around 14 - 15 mm) whereas I got 12 on a good day with the wind behind before. 12 mm lift is now a piece of cake. 3. I can get a "fake" roll-away if the entrence is 1 mm above the exit. This is considerably better than before, when I needed 3 mm. 4. I have not managed a genuine roll away or any incontroversial evidence of anomalus behaviour. 5. I have not managed to link even 2 ramps on a level to level basis. ie. Entrence of second is same height as entrence to first. 6. I would say that my "S" exits are far from ideal. I think I'm losing a lot of energy there. 7. The 10 mm ramp height is difficult to achieve with my 12 mm high Al U-tube. I think I might try "N" gauge rail tracks for everything. In conclusion, my ham fisted and far less ideal SMOT 2.0 beta's are much easier to work with than V1.0. I have not seen any anomalus behaviour. As a side note, I've shown my ramps to a few Physicist friends here at TRIUMF. They've been uniformly fascinated but wonder why I don't spend more time looking for dibaryons (6 quark clusters as opposed to ordinary 3-quark baryons), which is why I'm meant to be here. Cheers! Martin Sevior From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 20 22:55:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA06012; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 23:46:40 -0600 (MDT) From: "John R. Tooker" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Time Travel Page Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GFXSc.0.sT1.2msgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8565 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Just a note regarding my time travel page, and those who requested info. I've managed to upload the paper by Nikolai Kozyrev, on his study of time. Take a look at http://members.tripod.com/~jtooker/kozyrev.txt , if you care to dl it. Keep up the good work, all. :) Regards, John R Tooker. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 00:43:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA05599; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 00:42:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 00:42:29 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 03:41:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970621034110_-1644035726 emout02.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: johnste ecg.csg.mot.com Subject: Re : JLN - RMOD Resent-Message-ID: <"1xrcd1.0.ON1.aNugp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8567 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi John, On 20/06/1997 14:29:05 , John E. Steck wrote : << Jean-Louis: 1) Does it run continuously or is that just a looped animation? 2) If it is running continuously, what is the estimated RPM? torque? >> Unfortunately the device stop after a few time, the only closed loop continously today is "the looped animation".... :-( But I think that I have a good idea for achieving the closed loop now... In the RMOD the gravity as no effect in the regauging process..... I have tried to use kinetic energy and the non-linearity of the ball's path for breaking the magnetic attraction. During my first series of tests the RMOD, once launched, rotates and STOPS after a few time, the regauging effect is not sufficient to maintain the rotation. It seems that the main problem comes from the material used for the rotating balls. As far as I am concerned, I think that I need to find the appropriated material or alloy which have a low magnetic saturation. I shall try to explain what I think about this : The principle of my RMOD V2.0 device is the use of the kinetic energy to regauge the system. But the kinetic energy at the exit must be greater than the magnetic back drag of the magnetic ramp. During the first 2/3 of the path inside the magramp, the ball is accelerated and converts the magnetic energy into kinetic energy, in this first part the core of the ball is active and not magneticaly saturated. When the ball reaches the saturation point, about at 20 mm BEFORE the higher flux density area, the material should be magneticaly saturated and the ball have the lowest magnetic permeability. At this point, all magnetic energy is converted into kinetic energy. If the kinetic energy is sufficient to pass through the exit the regauging effect is possible and we should be able to build an open system for ZPE energy like a water wheel...... The use of K. Monel alloy ( specially Monel K500 ) seems good. This kind of ball is commercially available in ball bearings of Monel K500. The saturation of Monel alloy is reached at around 0.2 Teslas for 700000 A/m. I am working today on magnetic simulation with QuickField, if you are interested, I can send you some designs. I am studying most particularly a special design with a thin shell around the ball made with a high permeability alloy like supermalloy. The main goal of this study is to find the good setup which can create a magnetic shield just before the higher flux density area ( drop zone ) but without reducing significantly the magnetic to kinetic energy conversion during the first part (2/3) of the magnetic ramps. I hope that I have been explicit enough, I would like to now your point of view about this thinking process. Nice to speak with you, Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 00:44:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA15944; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 00:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 00:42:47 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 03:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970621034120_1012079730 emout05.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: Attempt at a new type of RMOD Resent-Message-ID: <"pOJPy2.0.2v3.rNugp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8566 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 21/06/1997 05:13:05 , Horace Heffner wrote : << Doesn't seem likely. What's the difference between the force caused by inertia and gravity? What's the difference between potential energy of increased height vs the equivalent amount in momentum? That extra mass should help "rollaway" just as well as a downward slope and/or the angular momentum of the ball. The problem must be due to improper (not analagous) field shape, or maybe a change in field dynamics due to lack of ball rotation. Regards, Horace Heffner >> Hi Horace, In the RMOD the gravity as no effect in the regauging process..... I have tried to use kinetic energy and the non-linearity of the ball's path for breaking the magnetic attraction. During my first series of tests the RMOD, once launched, rotates and STOPS after a few time, the regauging effect is not sufficient to maintain the rotation. It seems that the main problem comes from the material used for the rotating balls. As far as I am concerned, I think that I need to find the appropriated material or alloy which have a low magnetic saturation. I shall try to explain what I think about this : The principle of my RMOD V2.0 device is the use of the kinetic energy to regauge the system. But the kinetic energy at the exit must be greater than the magnetic back drag of the magnetic ramp. During the first 2/3 of the path inside the magramp, the ball is accelerated and converts the magnetic energy into kinetic energy, in this first part the core of the ball is active and not magneticaly saturated. When the ball reaches the saturation point, about at 20 mm BEFORE the higher flux density area, the material should be magneticaly saturated and the ball have the lowest magnetic permeability. At this point, all magnetic energy is converted into kinetic energy. If the kinetic energy is sufficient to pass through the exit the regauging effect is possible and we should be able to build an open system for ZPE energy like a water wheel...... The use of K. Monel alloy ( specially Monel K500 ) seems good. This kind of ball is commercially available in ball bearings of Monel K500. The saturation of Monel alloy is reached at around 0.2 Teslas for 700000 A/m. I am working today on magnetic simulation with QuickField, if you are interested, I can send you some designs. I am studying most particularly a special design with a thin shell around the ball made with a high permeability alloy like supermalloy. The main goal of this study is to find the good setup which can create a magnetic shield just before the higher flux density area ( drop zone ) but without reducing significantly the magnetic to kinetic energy conversion during the first part (2/3) of the magnetic ramps. I hope that I have been explicit enough, I would like to now your point of view about this thinking process. Nice to speak with you, Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 01:10:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA17790; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 01:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 01:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: 21 Jun 97 04:05:50 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Something rotten in SMOT? Message-ID: <970621080550_100433.1541_BHG33-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"T3FRQ3.0.qL4.alugp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8568 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry, > Better suggestion: Greg Watson provides kit containing > prefabricated closed loop SMOT. I agree, but I think he's saying that the kit won't need more than fitting together - no adjustments will be needed. That's pretty close, and makes packing and mailing a lot easier.... > I hate to say I told you so, but so far it appears as I > predicted---unless Greg himslef provides copies of the device, it > is not going to be replicatable. At the time, I agreed with your prediction, but it seems that at least one rather shaky multiple rollaround has been claimed, and several level rollaways. Not bad after so short a time. > If the inventor belives in his device, it makes *much* more sense > for him to provide demo copies for testing, rather than > instructions for copying. But isn't Greg doing both - or at least coming as close to that as the practical difficulties of packing permit? > Why doesn't just *one* of them break with tradition and provide > accesible working protoypes? I guess they are not *that* anxious > to alter the future of civilization.... You surely have read Rothwell's voluminous writings on the subject? They describe our position: we believe in complete disclosure and the inventor getting a slice of a huge cake, rather than his getting his usual share - 100% of a cake of zero size. So, here at least we are in full agreement with you. Greg's attitude has been mind-bogglingly sane. Your criticisms are very much on the mark, but Greg seems to have taken account of them before either you or we had a chance to make them. So, one way or another, this curious story should reach its conclusion quite soon. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 01:31:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA19174; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 01:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 01:29:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33AB11E8.C8B87B71 verisoft.com.tr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:27:34 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: SMOT as Time Machine (real experiments included!) Resent-Message-ID: <"tirU4.0.Vh4.x3vgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8569 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hamdi - > I tried something like this earlier and posted at > 10 Jun 1997 19:31:41 as "Re: Magnetic Energy in SMOT"[...] Yes, I remember your post now. Although I didn't have a long rollout ramp for these quick and dirty experiments, the *time* gain was obvious. Of course, this is simply the equivalent to having a track in a concave path and allowing gravity to do the work. Of course it's going to go faster, but the work done (energy) is the same or even more due the fact that more friction is encountered along the way due to faster speed - more air and track resistance - so the ball won't even reach the point that a no-magnet track yields. It's trivial, and makes it all seem rather silly. But I don't know yet if it really is silly or not. I've seen smoke, but no fire. Hope your hand isn't throbbing too much! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 01:37:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA09905; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 01:32:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 01:32:58 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 00:31:45 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Rotary failure modes (was: Attempt.new.type.RMOD) Resent-Message-ID: <"_llyL3.0.hQ2.w6vgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8570 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 8:58 AM 6/21/97, mpower consultants wrote: [snip] > >In the SMOT, the ball is free to accelerate/decelerate > through the mag field/grav field differential. Likewise in the rotary design - provided it is fully symmetrical. > >Another factor appears to be the linked magnetic fields, > which may also help account for the difficulty in linking the linear SMOT's. >I may not be able to describe this accurately, but I'll give it a go: > The circular magnetic devices generally consist of a number of magnets > arranged in various fashions around a common center. > All of the various arrangements I have assembled had one point in common: > the magnetic fields blend together, and there is no longer an effective > 'asymmetric (sawtooth) cog' such as exists on the SMOT. That proves my point - the fields generated are no analagous. The central line of the magnetic flux must move away from the ball path at the same rate the ball fals out of the linear devices. The same hole must be contoured in the field. The same (relative) linkage fields also need be created, and this should happen if the ball path magnetic midline relationship is maintained. > >And thirdly, inertia appears to be an unsuitable replacement for gravity > as a counterpart force for the magnetic component of the SMOT. All > of the rotary devices which do not use gravity as a counterbalance to the > magnetic differential seem to grind to a halt. So far the above is also true of all the loop replications. Also, generating the right fields for a rotary device is a bit more difficult, true? >My observation is that the effect of the SMOT is a product of the > differential accelerations induced by a > magnetic field counterbalanced by a gravity field. How many ball densities have you tried? >The difference between inertia and Gravity should be obvious: > in the magnetic field the backforce provided by inertia > declines as the field is worked against (i.e. - momentum [K.E.] is >dissipated). > gravity provides a constant force (we generally *assume* - be careful here!) > which does not lessen during work in the magnetic field. We have at each point x on the ramp: a = F/m so we should be able to achieve a similar acceleration profile to the one that is obtained by reducing F = (Fm - Fg) (when increasing the force due to gravity Fg by inclining the ramp) by increasing m and (if necessary, i.e. non-linear) changing the magnetic force profile Fm at each point x to produce the same acceleration profile. This notion might be demonstrated by achieving rollaway with a flat ramp. Just curious about John Schnurer's report about trying the wedge shape with steel packing strap. Wasn't that test of his with 1/2" ball even *better* than a flat rollaway, or do I misunderstand? (See below) Further, if rolling is eliminated, the effects of storing of rotational kinetic energy can be exactly offset by increasing mass. The field dynamics are another matter though. > >so sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but... Not tidings, just opinions. > >MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM >* http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 >* (-latest update: 1997.06.15.12:30-) >***************************************************** At 9:20 PM 6/17/97, John Schnurer wrote: > Dear Vo., > > My SMOT modification: > > Steel packing strap for flux guide on outside. > 3/16 X 7/8 X 1 inch Nd Fe B magnets, fvie on each rail > "V" aluminum rail > Stable lift of 18 mm in length of 120 mm with > > a] 1/2 " ball, less than 1/2oz > b] 7/8 ... about 1 1/4 oz > c] 1 1/4 ... slightly more than 5 oz > > > a] zips right along, crashes into screwhead it can't clear, >leaps in air, crashes down to track.... exits with "great vigah" .. to >use the words of the late Jack Kennedy. > b] clears screwhead due to larger ball diameter riding higher on >track .... velocity slower .... exits > c] same as [b] ... but slower yet ... but does exit. > > Set up needs no adjustment ....works with all ball sizes. Not >optimized ..... made of tape and wood. > > SEE GREG ... I reported! > > > JHS > One big advantage to rotary devices is that the armature prevents the ball from jumping off the track, thus much stronger magnets can be used. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 02:09:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA20366; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:08:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:08:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33ABA951.3B8F earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 03:13:37 -0700 From: Rich Murray Reply-To: rmforall earthlink.net Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Transmutation evidence References: <970620142101_72240.1256_EHB77-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jAz7w1.0.8-4.Revgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8571 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed and Vorts, There must be some way to get Kennel and al to run their high resolution SIMS at $ 5,000 per run on before and after cathodes from Dash, Mizuno, Ohmori, Bockris, Claytor, McKubre, Miley, Miles, and Blacklight Power, and on before and after samples of dried electrolyte. This would do so much to verify element anomalies from very simple, robust experiments, and entice more labs to do SIMS tests on the same materials, and to do their own replications. Couldn't all these labs make it a priority to supply these samples? So much could be quickly done to dramatically impress the general scientific community. Perhaps some patterns revealing the possible reaction dynamics could thus be found, similar to the amazingly complex and varied chains of radioactive decays, inexplicable for decades, found a century ago. I encourage the more transparent workers, like Dash, to offer test kits for sell at a reasonable price, $ 2,000 to $ 5,000, say. Can the top micron of Pd cathodes be conveniently dissolved and dried for chemical analysis, SIMS, and mass spectrometry? How about a standard protocol for this? You see, most scientists are likely to dismiss the amazing claims as some kind of unwitting or witting fraud, until the details are confirmed by a variety of disinterested labs. All cathodes in every lab for every run should be subdivided 20 times and archieved for testing by a variety of labs. We have to be able to make these samples available for testing by new devices as yet not imagined. How about nuclear magnetic spectroscopy? In a similar way, ocean floor cores, ice cores, and lunar and meteorite samples are permanently archieved. When these samples are measured by independent labs, don't the anomalies then become "theirs", not just "ours"? Rich Murray From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 02:24:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA13227; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:23:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:23:24 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 23:22:26 -1000 To: Vortex From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Very quick report on SMOT V2.0 beta. Resent-Message-ID: <"hzHPS1.0.XE3.Bsvgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8572 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [Reposted here from e-mail] Martin Sevior wrote: [snip] > PS. Did I read correctly that you can trasnport a > ball long distances with a series of magnet wedges > stuck butt to tail? ie. > (1-2-3-4)(2-3-4)(2-3-4)(2-3-4)? Yes, that's it. With the most recent addition of a 12345 pair on the end, it's around 500mm long now, and it's amazing on the horizontal - the ball moves pretty fast down the entire length. It shows no sign of weakness in horizontal mode the more arrays I add. As a ramp, more mags increase the final height too. I wish I had 1000 or so magnets, I'd just keep going and see where it started to weaken. It would sure be weird if it didn't! On a good day, with freshly cleaned/polished rails and carefully aligned magnets, it can get between 12mm and 15mm of lift, which isn't a big deal really, because a single 12345 pair can do that. But the arrays are fairly loose, I think about 27mm or more, using 3/8" high magnets stacked only 4 deep (except for the final array I just set on the end - from the "Mark II" experiment). My next experiment is to try making a level track section at the top, and see if I can loosen up the arrays even more there, then continue to flare them out across a slight decline from the level summit. I see nice 'fake' rollaways from the flared end array with only the slightest downward track tilt. Always intriguing, but the real goodies always seem "just out of reach". One other thing this long array has taught me is about the collection of any excess energy as momentum in these things: you can't do it, at least as we're configuring them now. Sometimes I'm fiddling with the array or trying for lift, and the ball won't pass the next to last array or something. So I adjust and fiddle some more, and it still won't go. So in frustration sometimes, I start 'spiking' the ball into the entrance, and it *still* won't go. I've even shot it in like a marble off my thumb with quite a bit of force in circumstances like this, and not had it pass the flaw or weak spot - then I might just polish the rails a little bit, and the ball makes it up from a standing start. Obviously there is a time dependent process at work as the ball passes magnets. Eddy current growth and decay rates, magnetization and demag rates, or a combination, or maybe something else. But if you try to exceed the 'speed limit', the effect just runs negative on the ball at that point, and there's no gain, just the braking off of the excess speed. You can spike through one ramp and not really see this, but the braking effect is obvious on the long ramp. So I'm pretty sure all rotaries that depend on momentum gain and fail to take this into account are doomed on that count alone, if not for more basic reasons. Possible fixes involve finding out what sort of arrangement favors speed, like longer array stacks maybe, and tapering in this adjustment to match the expected increased acceleration of the ball. [snip] - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 02:34:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA21444; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 01:31:05 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re : Re: Attempt at a new type of RMOD Resent-Message-ID: <"dsxnV1.0.-E5.K_vgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8573 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 3:41 AM 6/21/97, JNaudin509 aol.com wrote: [snip] > >In the RMOD the gravity as no effect in the regauging process..... >I have tried to use kinetic energy and the non-linearity of the ball's path >for breaking the magnetic attraction. > >During my first series of tests the RMOD, once launched, rotates and STOPS >after a few time, the regauging effect is not sufficient to maintain the >rotation. It seems that the main problem comes from the material used for the >rotating balls. >As far as I am concerned, I think that I need to find the appropriated >material or alloy which have a low magnetic saturation. > >I shall try to explain what I think about this : > >The principle of my RMOD V2.0 device is the use of the kinetic energy to >regauge the system. But the kinetic energy at the exit must be greater than >the magnetic back drag of the magnetic ramp. > >During the first 2/3 of the path inside the magramp, the ball is accelerated >and converts the magnetic energy into kinetic energy, in this first part the >core of the ball is active and not magneticaly saturated. >When the ball reaches the saturation point, about at 20 mm BEFORE the higher >flux density area, the material should be magneticaly saturated and the ball >have the lowest magnetic permeability. At this point, all magnetic energy is >converted into kinetic energy. There will then be no further force on the ball, except drag due to eddy currents. The ball will not accelerate further, so there is no purpose to the rest of the ramp, or any further increase in B. >If the kinetic energy is sufficient to pass through the exit the regauging >effect is possible and we should be able to build an open system for ZPE >energy like a water wheel...... > >The use of K. Monel alloy ( specially Monel K500 ) seems good. This kind of >ball is commercially available in ball bearings of Monel K500. The saturation >of Monel alloy is reached at around 0.2 Teslas for 700000 A/m. > >I am working today on magnetic simulation with QuickField, if you are >interested, I can send you some designs. I am studying most particularly a >special design with a thin shell around the ball made with a high >permeability alloy like supermalloy. The main goal of this study is to find >the good setup which can create a magnetic shield just before the higher flux >density area ( drop zone ) but without reducing significantly the magnetic to >kinetic energy conversion during the first part (2/3) of the magnetic ramps. At the boundary to the shielded region there will be a major decellerating force, defeating the purpose of the shielding. An alternative is to use the wedge followed by a decrease, e.g. 1-2-3-4-5-3-3. The 3-3 region is equivalent to having 5-5 with 40 percent shielding. > >I hope that I have been explicit enough, I would like to now your point of >view about this thinking process. > >Nice to speak with you, > >Sincerely, > >Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) In just playing around a few weeks ago I had what appeared to be a rollaway using a piece of plexaglass for a track and a cylindrical ferrite core in place of a ball. I put the magnet under the track oriented to create an increasing B toward the end of the ramp. The ramp was somewhat like so: M1 o o /\ o o N / \ o o / / o o / / o---------------- Table top \ /S \/ I think non-conductive material is very good for both the magnets and balls because it eliminates eddy losses. It seems like conductive material should be kept away from these devices. It appears to me that placing the magnet arrays above and/or below the track instead of on the sides may be very helpful, especially for turning corners, as it keeps the balls centered (no track necessary). In fact, based on the above experiment, magnets on top may not be necessary at all, except possibly to aid rollaway. For example, it may be useful to only place a magnet, or even only ferrous material, approximately at point M1 to help nudge the ball over the edge. However, a magnet array on top would reduce drag due to ball weight. Therefore, it is the magnet array on the *bottom* that is not needed. An array on top would still provide a centering effect. Another variation might be to switch from a bottom magnet array to a top array midway up the ramp, or some combination. The useful fact is that, if the configuration is such that the ball can not jump up in the air to the overhead magnetic array, it is an absolute fact that the ball will, upon going over the edge of the ramp, increase distance from the overhead magnet array and thus reduce pull, and thus escape from the overhead array and roll away. So, here's an overhead wedge array design, for example: m m m m m m M1 m m m o m o o o o o o ------------------------------------------------- Table top Of course the magnets might be much closer together and attached to a ferrous surface, etc. Please don't send me any GIFs or plans. I partially built a rotary device using plastic arms mounted on ball bearing spindle with ferrite cores at the end of the arms. The ball bearings are not very good. I haven't had time to continue work on it due to home rapairs and travel to Anchorage for a music institute, etc. I am thinking about stopping all this fun stuff for some time and getting serious about doing backlogged chores and then getting prepared to make some money doing something I actually am (nearly) qualified to do. My son goes to college in a year. I barely have time to read this list now. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 02:37:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA22081; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:36:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:36:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970621080550_100433.1541_BHG33-2 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 23:33:52 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Something rotten in SMOT? Resent-Message-ID: <"dUpSh.0.sO5.72wgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8574 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > So, one way or another, this curious story > should reach its conclusion quite soon. Or perhaps just as likely live forever among the "undead"? Sometimes I think *I'm* amongst them already, with 'success at last' lurking just one little adjustment away... ... maybe a fresh ball ... ... polish the rails a little here ... ... - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI "zzzzooppp-whup-p-p-p...(clickety-clackity)...ka-CHUNK" [ball sticking up under magnet array, then entire array alignment being destroyed during fat-fingered recovery attempt] From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 02:53:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA23863 for billb@eskimo.com; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:53:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: stevepel axs2000.net Sat Jun 21 02:53:46 1997 Received: from ns1.axs2000.net (root ns1.axs2000.net [207.106.10.100]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA23805; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from douglasp (s115-net152.axs2000.net [198.7.152.115]) by ns1.axs2000.net (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA15009; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 05:46:34 -0400 Message-Id: <199706210946.FAA15009 ns1.axs2000.net> From: "steve" To: , , , Subject: Fw: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. Old-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 05:52:22 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: vortex-l Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: John Kolesar > To: AQUARIUM LISTSERV.CC.EMORY.EDU > Subject: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > Date: Friday, June 20, 1997 11:42 AM > > >From: ChezBow aol.com > >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:31:59 -0400 (EDT) > >To: vicparu ix.netcom.com, Leebo99@aol.com, awilk@utsystem.edu, > > borsykk popeye.cc.biu.ac.il, elanap@actcom.co.il, > lssteel swbell.net, > > Mordecha utxvms.cc.utexas.edu, DK1005@aol.com, Dana0312@aol.com, > > ChefScarpa aol.com > >Subject: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-06-19 17:03:24 EDT > >From: Fraggle483 > >To: ChezBow > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-06-19 16:53:57 EDT > >From: Flyn17 > >To: Animalteen,Runrosas,Krmksm > >To: TBRD162,Hobbes248,Dioblo > >To: Fraggle483,Hot Rod478,Ladybug144 > >To: Warlord32 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-06-19 10:32:19 EDT > >From: Lisaswim > >To: Flyn17,Freak01010,WFVA > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-06-06 17:00:48 EDT > >From: Scotty4026 > >To: andy abcs.com > >CC: Daphne17,HOLLYWE,Lisaswim > >CC: Yellow2628 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-06-06 12:55:35 EDT > >From: Heather294 > >To: WinkiPooh,Scotty4026,JMAN357 > >To: CHECKHEAD,DDWWJJ,Goodluv29,JooPow > >To: KIPE2,CalifTOPsm,JShackl722 > >To: Casibel,DES115,Randazzio > >To: JULIA1218,Xxhot4uxx,Sherri2920 > >CC: ItalianM20,Calombo,SNACKS17 > >CC: MYCROFFTT,BSOC17,MAC2BWU,Rviper18 > >CC: DCrockett,PERKYMD,FURBEAR8X6 > >CC: Stumpy5519,NdeBill,Tommydodd > >CC: BREN PAC,YG QDY2 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-06-05 17:11:55 EDT > >From: O NVRMIND1 > >To: Heather294 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-06-04 21:53:34 EDT > >From: AngelLuv6 > >To: KZ750E3,JDegeo,Romie408,Clock53 > >To: W18 LT,Krue3,RVelk,CWBlizzard > >To: Sendee3593,JTalbert,Cwininger > >To: Jokestaaah,Pasquaze,Mr300855 > >To: O NVRMIND1 > > > >had to do it....this one's for a good cause....please pass it along > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-06-04 01:20:01 EDT > >From: Dunsmack > >To: JamieS1177 > >CC: Cdues,AngelLuv6,Brunni18,MelatESU > >CC: ANGEL 1112 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-06-04 01:13:51 EDT > >From: ModelTW2 > > > >«‹- -–|[¤ Fate X 2.5 Mass Mailer By MaGuS ¤]|–-- -›+ > > «‹- -–|[¤ Mail 1 of 1 ¤]|–-- -›+ > > «‹- -–|[¤ 100% Transfered ¤]|–-- -›+ > > > >Please help this little kid :) > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-06-03 21:56:03 EDT > >From: ModelTW2 > >To: ModelTW2 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-06-03 21:38:26 EDT > >From: XNickWall1 > >To: HOTBABY69,Hershiser2,Angel2281 > >To: Dontkair,Tepper149,Tecnodork > >To: BBOBB69,SEDATEDBM,Flautist16 > >To: Beastly23,C Emlyplay,Pink Mojo > >To: Beatnikchk,MogPiet,Deesse81 > >To: TWEAK91,Mickeym68,BHenriq197 > >To: ModelTW2,Peridita,Hoochi16 > >To: GIZZMO82,MeMe100628,Cluster0ne > >To: Riker354,NoDoubt127,DestinyKW > >To: WATERSHINE,Clue83,Mirage831 > >To: Vledevil,Dopehat271 > > > >please forward this to a bunch of people...its for a important > cause..... > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-06-03 15:39:35 EDT > >From: Hoochi16 > >To: KJA 783,XNickWall1,Amythist97 > >To: SISTERSX4 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-06-03 15:30:38 EDT > >From: Reefer2069 > >To: Snobord98,Hoochi16,JENNY125 > >To: RazorShrp,SSamuel399,SEAGAL666 > >To: FAITH31497 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-06-02 00:44:47 EDT > >From: Frank2381 > >To: Dubasnica,Wrestl160,Gizmo55483 > >To: LinemanBob,TazJam413,Emily400 > >To: Softball82,Diana21897,Reefer2069 > >To: Sarius14,Lauren144,TG5701,Tar1028 > >To: Kiwijella,MHF97,JoeDeBear > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-05-15 16:22:53 EDT > >From: Angellnum5 > >To: Nikebabe23,Love5029,SnowSweety > >To: MIDGEE16,XXratm12XX,MJoyW18 > >To: Frank2381 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-05-14 21:03:02 EDT > >From: Honey8297 > >To: Angellnum5 > > > >read this please > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-05-14 17:10:42 EDT > >From: Luvallwayz > >To: ELL17K,PiraNaz69X,SunShin929 > >To: Kermo,Mucheela,COCONUT00,LMH414 > >To: Honey8297,CHammond,Joe Schome > >To: Plankton69,mr.foo2,Rift1021 > >To: XoTRISHxo,Jen4224,Ali1101 > >To: DarlaLuna,JeNNa1282,JiLL63CAP > >To: ET4444,JayKay109,LaurenK > >To: CRZYKID911 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-05-13 18:57:43 EDT > >From: Jelibean91 > >To: LUV1111,Gizmo9494,LilSped Jr > >To: Hendrix360,Pickens2,VWBEETLE13 > >To: JfrsnPlane,Belle142,Aub23 > >To: Jeff5432,Broadway25,Luvallwayz > >To: PiraNaz69X,Jiggles54,Rad Carn > >To: SunShin929,Plankton69 > >To: chammond voyager.co.nz > >CC: Jelibean91 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-05-11 21:07:04 EDT > >From: DasyMa > >To: I am Saki,Bourquinpc,Jelibean91 > >To: TinmanLite,Jeff5432,LJL911 > >To: SkreemName,Clueless2 snet.net > >To: LLOLA17,FANNY21,Absolut808 > >To: Daisy572,Sky 8515 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-05-11 13:51:54 EDT > >From: Mich010101 > >To: MGiulietti,ILOVEJENNY,DasyMa > >To: Clueless2 snet.com,LakeG10 > >To: TRIPLEO7 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-05-11 13:44:17 EDT > >From: Belle142 > >To: ILOVEJENNY,GAUCHODude,ALL4JR > >To: Mich010101,MGiulietti > > > >Sorry, guys. This was kind of depressing, so I had to send it. Bye all. > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-05-10 19:06:49 EDT > >From: DaveB1119 > >To: Belle142 > >CC: Corny Mom > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-05-06 22:44:52 EDT > >From: Whalecup > >To: DaveB1119 > >CC: Absolut808,J2502,ARW 44 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-05-06 22:40:24 EDT > >From: Martinitre > >To: CB5849,DADDYBO1,Boombasti6 > >To: Speed178,Matty B 00,LIZZEY00 > >To: Gowhale123,Whalecup,Niner69ers > >To: Cananboy,JPSwat,SEARSPRIED > >To: Stooph29,Jen12482,Hina b > >To: Ribbbittt,WOLFDOWN > >To: edonnelly jcvaxa.icu.edu,Shadoe x > >To: CK61080,ZACHNICK,SLG017 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: Trans. : Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a > heart > >read it. > >Date: 97-05-06 18:32:22 EDT > >From: Druck96 > >To: Martinitre > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: Trans. : Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a > heart > >read it. > >Date: 97-05-05 21:57:11 EDT > >From: LJMinelli > >To: ZgStarDust,Dolemit499,Phisher93 > >To: Druck96,KitKat8199,GreenEyes9 > >To: BallsTwat,Renae12345,BUGGIRRL > >To: Extisy,MEKKLOK,Kyrisn > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: Trans. : Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a > heart > >read it. > >Date: 97-05-04 21:26:52 EDT > >From: Natsfun > >To: Quadari,SamiBadGal,Su Amoeba > >To: LJMinelli,MKJ87,Regan Lear,Gobo8 > >To: Paris2Go,Cybercron,PNHSHusky > >To: Giza 3,XMNR60B prodigy.com > > > >Ok, I know you all are nice people, and this isn't a chain letter. This > is a > >very serious thing, and if you don't do it I'll have to kick each one of > your > >a-ses, OK? Good! > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: Trans. : Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a > heart > >read it. > >Date: 97-05-03 23:54:30 EDT > >From: Juniper000 > >To: Natsfun > > > >nat just read this > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: Trans. : Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a > heart > >read it. > >Date: 97-05-03 23:52:33 EDT > >From: BFowler511 > >To: Juniper000 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: Trans. : Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a > heart > >read it. > >Date: 97-04-30 13:49:32 EDT > >From: Rollie2000 > >To: BFowler511 > >CC: Dopey1119 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: Trans. : Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a > heart > >read it. > >Date: 97-04-30 10:45:24 EDT > >From: Zoic24 > >To: Rollie2000 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: Trans. : Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a > heart > >read it. > >Date: 97-04-29 23:51:44 EDT > >From: Throw22 > >To: Zoic24 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: Trans. : Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a > heart > >read it. > >Date: 97-04-29 23:01:23 EDT > >From: SNUGG79116 > >To: Throw22 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: Trans. : Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a > heart > >read it. > >Date: 97-04-29 22:51:00 EDT > >From: Sameref > >To: Aeo22,Billy2728,BroS FumP > >To: DaisySings,DJ2291,DLFARNER > >To: ExecSec37,IASCA,InLvAlone > >To: Joshua1989,Lover105,Luap597167 > >To: CAPT1BUCK,Courtjudge,Doc is Dav > >To: BadBoy901,EckerD6870,Freesltye > >To: Eyes2000,LW50,NotEZ2Miss,ShawliJH > >To: LADYDEVINE,Laporonga,Thbinkster > >To: Warobertsw,SNUGG79116,ALDO311 > >To: BlndBytch,ANTRA361,BlacBerry7 > >To: FEMO34 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Trans. : Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart > read it. > >Date: 97-04-29 17:25:43 EDT > >From: AMascarenh > >To: Angelhairz,Kiji945,Laiyla69 > >To: Honi girl,Kdspoiled,Kurty88 > >To: Tattoo1420,Smurff33,GARDAE,Sr97me > >To: Alis128,Cody734477,BCCourtney > >To: PRETTY GAL,Lockie6016,LaneeP > >To: AbbyTennis,T53,HRMWM,NITTANYGRL > >To: Daisy73997,HARALENE,Meli983 > >To: Talango2,Zoe18f,ImaNewt2 > >To: AprlShwrBi,MJFREAK239,XxCHULAxX > >To: DesireeSyn,PoohCornr1,DANU1234 > >To: Sugncream,Lisa158701,Call4Booty > >To: Christy251,BROOKE BOL,BELLE1023 > >To: W Luna W,Verybi4u,Dragonwic,Mwyr > >To: Aerlene,SHeRidahDB,Bri6009 > >To: TIANAParis,Sangre1,Invite2914 > >To: TCutie1997,Skyrac8757,Bekkey > >To: BoyzMad,Bladez999,KUUipo2U > >To: Sameref > > > >This not any stupid chain letter! > >please pay attention to it, it is for a good reason! > >Whatever you may think of this, please send it to as much people as > possible! > > > >merci! > >Ceci n'est pas n'importe quoi! > >faites y attention, c'est pour une juste cause! > >Quoique vous pensiez de ce message, veuillez le transmattre a autant de > >personne que possible! > >Thanks! > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-28 19:38:27 EDT > >From: Mookie7422 > >To: AMascarenh > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-28 16:25:44 EDT > >From: Theman7189 > >To: Mookie7422,KFred98,Brookella > >To: Chacha1148,JRunner801,Boozer98 > >To: Betti487,Batman8950,CrisGwyna > >To: Chump91,Ahmed11223 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-28 16:09:37 EDT > >From: JFRED01 > >To: Theman7189 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-27 18:07:08 EDT > >From: CWMLPeck > >To: Skatrgr15 > >CC: Bbcoach25,JFRED01 > > > >Hey. Why Not. > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-27 16:36:47 EDT > >From: DAZIE 42 > >To: RCopus,Byll84,RobDogg04,BAM 88 > >To: JJH925,SEXMACHNE1,LION 1MAN > >To: CWMLPeck,Shadow 850,RKMMM1 > >To: sunflower176 juno.com,mo15@juno.com > >To: pharmacy bright.net > >To: vbell bright.net > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-27 15:27:33 EDT > >From: Leady > >To: Stars1124 > >CC: Flowers18,Tuckinfits,Perplexic > >CC: Mackshmack,Wagss1,Farley311 > >CC: DRAMA DEVA,PENGUIN63,Stardust30 > >CC: DAZIE 42,AwesomeASH,Spoony2 > >CC: Travolta35,Slippy2000 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-26 19:10:10 EDT > >From: LESLIE5742 > >To: Leroux96,Cricket291,Heath33 > >To: LAUREN5841,OklndNo1Fn,MDOGG87 > >To: GODDY15,TOMMYHL15,Fatso Fat > >To: Linzzi71,Rebelatios,Lennon940 > >To: Leady,Golf39,SKISHAWN1,Spleen666 > >To: Olivia388,Pezmerga,ScarleRose > >To: JOEMS81,Scuttel230,Marine0241 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-26 17:51:42 EDT > >From: Leroux96 > >To: Nernik,SteelcityJ,Pens 11 > >To: Penguin040,Stylon,ChevyS1091 > >To: CPiedade,Estoric,Cricket291 > >To: LESLIE5742,OklndNo1Fn,Spleen666 > >To: MEWaldman,TOMMYHL15,RBASEL852 > >To: KEVDAYN,DOGBOY26,BigB999999 > >To: Big Guy13,LEX0031,Eclipse601 > >To: WoOdY90210,Ziggy90023,EAGLE 160 > >To: Jason104,Phil252792,Micdel9488 > >To: MRBLUE589,SILVER589 > > > >*** Guys, if you're mad because I sent you this you need to relook your > life > >and think about if your selfish or not... I don't think any of you are > so > >send this out ok? I know all of you are caring and sweet so please send > this > >out. Thanks guys. > >:) > > > >Kate > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-26 16:38:46 EDT > >From: Tofinef259 > >To: Leroux96 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-26 16:23:20 EDT > >From: LEEP3 > >To: Big Ben 62,FlowrGirrl,MadCow4455 > >To: LuvFound,TAEOSINTAE,AngieDaQT > >To: Snookie359,KennyB323,Azihw > >To: Candie 44,Branflake6,LA FEME819 > >To: Monky55,Maybnot,Milford249 > >To: Eagle41140,MBecash,Cheesey831 > >To: Catwoma459,BIGGD1234,Legar4 > >To: RodeoChic3,Tofinef259,METHD > >To: LimeFlower,Vic Vega14,KDEE Pooh > >To: Cobras06,Will4U123,Becute911 > >To: Gaboopster > > > >I DID IT, SO CAN YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-26 13:42:19 EDT > >From: Theman05 > >To: Pittpeng,Skate817,Dambalah,DZNYR2 > >To: BGNYR27,AJ88888,Mat Eppy,Numies15 > >To: Telly3367,DORMAN3,Hugs2000 > >To: SLamping,EZUP5551,Kess311 > >To: Hamadryas,Nataha,Cindy361,LEEP3 > >To: Desotis,EMASTER13,RedMan1953 > >To: Alomar1997,SHANDLEY,PLAYFUL358 > >To: SBern47023,ANGEL16545,Triumph32 > >To: Djy10,XyosXX,Soc121212,Mjfranco > >To: Ladybug547,Lualla,XROUTE1,Pris201 > >To: MDBCREAMER,HeyDonnaB,Look4me269 > >To: SHADOW3653,DavidAK,DVADER66 > >To: Myserables,ZIGGYSGIRL,Mags122355 > >To: Foxtrot99,Vextore,PhreddMan > >To: JLee321,WAF777,DAF5555,Oh Vanilla > >To: KATHY05,EgoML,lorenzo rpi.edu > >To: dsiskind bates.edu > > > >sorry guys. had to do it. > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-12 01:42:49 EDT > >From: PnaClada15 > >To: Malice987,SpUdMaN102,CVH11 > >To: PLund102,YsoFunky,Andbjer > >To: Littledrag,SDT612,ShanPooh99 > >To: Wareen1034,Iway460,Rsmooth17 > >To: Sk8er4KoRn,SilverRose,SDFGirl > >To: Horses1774,MR ARMS 19,Angiemoma > >To: Matt1281,Kjh1,PMccar8419 > >To: GumBear18,Harm0805,Tashxing > >To: TRUE FATE3,Buda727,MTiech > >To: Italiannet,Doc906417,ReddWine > >To: JULES41,Xpensvgrl,FLX 1,KSLawDawg > >To: LawKingNG,MgtyMouse,ARIF13,Luviie > >To: Tropix4Mel,WCS19,TCritter1 > >To: ACRODSRA,Mikey Man,PinkLady T > >To: Yastafar,Theman05,Jaydog23 > >To: Froggilyst,CuteGuyCa,Gatebash > >To: MV Kees,Spycegirl7 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-12 00:18:19 EDT > >From: Amarc101 > >To: PnaClada15 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-10 15:16:26 EDT > >From: DomCat 6 > >To: Amarc101 > >CC: TyrantRa,Lauren514 > > > >READ!!! > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-10 10:02:36 EDT > >From: Mustfallbe > >To: DomCat 6 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-10 09:24:21 EDT > >From: SoloAce20 > >To: BUNDY64 > >CC: Dquinn66,KINGMOOIE,SCRAPY7777 > >CC: Mustfallbe,Slydi27,Mhenry0136 > >CC: Tkobey2,DKNITTER,Roe25 > > > >hope you pass this along > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-09 23:59:28 EDT > >From: Thanksbabe > >To: Joseffcht,CCDG12,Scubaman22 > >To: JWeber5294,Fishdude86,JCMULLER > >To: SoloAce20,K9AD,Staryeyed3,ROCK795 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-09 22:40:06 EDT > >From: Br1Soft > >To: Marcie3399,BLAZER29,Gizer24 > >To: ArmyCop00,Tazluvrs,Briondiss > >To: Thanksbabe,BRAT KRIS,MaJlig > >To: Matt8070,Need2tri,MnWlf,MetJet69 > >To: AVecchia > > > >please you all send this on to all you know for all of us who know or > have > >been in this familys shoes!!! thanks and love > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-09 22:16:41 EDT > >From: CAPPUCCIN0 > >To: Andre 7201,BobbyDog1,CoCoCuPiD > >To: ANNABEL721,Belle965,Buddy99145 > >To: BLONDI7545,Br1Soft,CHABACCA > >To: CHughes348 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-09 19:49:56 EDT > >From: BabyElmo2 > >To: HoopkingMK,Hwhaleman,GIMABEAR > >To: MJKran,CAPPUCCIN0,Cometmen > >To: Psycho500,Soteddy,BLOSSOM121 > >To: CMedwick,Georgesarl,Pknocks45 > >To: DieselGrl3 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Fwd: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-09 18:25:29 EDT > >From: Silver5478 > >To: BabyElmo2 > > > > > >--------------------- > >Forwarded message: > >Subj: Re: this is not a chain letter! if u have a heart read it. > >Date: 97-04-09 17:47:34 EDT > >From: CLW 007 > >To: Jenanydots,Swimma13,Silver5478 > >To: Bell6s,Star Kimmy,ELMO1609 > >To: ViperNC712,JayB311,Prez8,TomGalk > >To: WWStarrWW,EXFILER13,JANICEAO > >To: Gage 0,JWright287,Heels44 > >To: Gavinn123,JMANN1807,Glitter 43 > >To: TAZORLANDO,IWalker605,Maxx in DC > >To: MFCSOCCER,soccer5454. > > > >ok you guys....This isn't a chain letter, but a choice for all of us to > save > >a little girl who is dying of a serious and fatal form of cancer. Please > send > >this to everyone you know or don't know for that matter. This little > girl has > >6 months left to live her life, and as her dying wish, she wanted to > send a > >chain letter telling eveyone to live their life to the fullest, since > she > >never will. She'll never make it to the prom, graduate from high school, > or > >get married and have a life of her own. But by sending this to as many > people > >as possible, you can give her and her family a little hope, because with > >every name that is sent to, the American Cancer Society will donate 3 > cents > >per name to her treatment and recovery plan. One guy sent this to 500 > >people!!! So, i know that we can send at least 5 or 6. Come on guys, and > if > >you're too freaking selfish to waste 10-15 minutes and scrolling and > sending > >this to EVERYONE, you're a sick person and another thing to think > about, it > >could be you someday. This isn't even your $money$, just your time. Do > this > >for that little girl that is depending on you! Thanks. > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 02:55:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA17578; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:54:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:54:52 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:54:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Martin Sevior To: Vortex Subject: Re: Very quick report on SMOT V2.0 beta. In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Db_nT.0.aI4.hJwgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8575 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Rick Monteverde wrote: > [Reposted here from e-mail] > > Martin Sevior wrote: > > [snip] > > > PS. Did I read correctly that you can trasnport a > > ball long distances with a series of magnet wedges > > stuck butt to tail? ie. > > (1-2-3-4)(2-3-4)(2-3-4)(2-3-4)? > > Yes, that's it. With the most recent addition of a 12345 pair on the end, > it's around 500mm long now, and it's amazing on the horizontal - the ball > moves pretty fast down the entire length. It shows no sign of weakness in > horizontal mode the more arrays I add. As a ramp, more mags increase the > final height too. I wish I had 1000 or so magnets, I'd just keep going and > see where it started to weaken. It would sure be weird if it didn't! > This is very, very interesting. My intuition for the magnetic potential energy is that a (2-3-4) ramp in the middle of your array would be roughly the lowest point, not the end of the ramp. It seems very hard to believe that the magetic field intensity is continually increasing throughout the array - this is the classical analysis of why the ball climbs to near the end of your typical SMOT ramp as described very nicely my Micheal Schaeffer. Your very long ramp behaviour is counter-intuitive to me. Clearly there is some energy required to transport the ball through all those magnets. Where does it come from? Where does the ball end up in your extremely long array? Your post has inspired me to try a different approach to linking. Till now my method has been to stick two working SMOT's together. Clearly the placement of the magnets in the receiving ramps should be much further back. I find my SMOT usually fails because the second SMOT can't capture the ball, it stays attached to the end of the first SMOT. > On a good day, with freshly cleaned/polished rails and carefully aligned > magnets, it can get between 12mm and 15mm of lift, which isn't a big deal > really, because a single 12345 pair can do that. But the arrays are fairly > loose, I think about 27mm or more, What does that mean? Do you mean they're 27 mm apart? Is this the thickness of a stack of magnets? > using 3/8" high magnets stacked only 4 > deep (except for the final array I just set on the end - from the "Mark II" > experiment). My next experiment is to try making a level track section at > the top, and see if I can loosen up the arrays even more there, then > continue to flare them out across a slight decline from the level summit. I > see nice 'fake' rollaways from the flared end array with only the slightest > downward track tilt. > Good idea. I should put a bit of work into polishing up my system. Using an un-optimized V2.0 I was less than 1 mm from a genuine roll away. > Always intriguing, but the real goodies always seem "just out of reach". > Seems like that to me too. > One other thing this long array has taught me is about the collection of > any excess energy as momentum in these things: you can't do it, at least as > we're configuring them now. Sometimes I'm fiddling with the array or trying > for lift, and the ball won't pass the next to last array or something. So I > adjust and fiddle some more, and it still won't go. So in frustration > sometimes, I start 'spiking' the ball into the entrance, and it *still* > won't go. I've even shot it in like a marble off my thumb with quite a bit > of force in circumstances like this, and not had it pass the flaw or weak > spot - then I might just polish the rails a little bit, and the ball makes > it up from a standing start. Obviously there is a time dependent process at > work as the ball passes magnets. Eddy current growth and decay rates, > magnetization and demag rates, or a combination, or maybe something else. > But if you try to exceed the 'speed limit', the effect just runs negative > on the ball at that point, and there's no gain, just the braking off of the > excess speed. You can spike through one ramp and not really see this, but > the braking effect is obvious on the long ramp. [snip] Very interesting! I guess too fast and the eddy currents cause too much drag. Too slow and the ball can't "tunnel" through the various magnetic hills. I still can't fathom why this system works. It's totally fascinating! Do our resident magetic field experts have an idea? This is a very interesting alternative approach. I have a mind to start churning out 1-2-3-4-5 magnets so I'll have a go at this too. Maybe not 0.5 meters but say 4 or 5 of (1-2-3-4-5) pairs. Martin Sevior From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 03:02:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA18466; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 03:01:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 03:01:16 -0700 Date: 21 Jun 97 05:59:57 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Something rotten in SMOT? Message-ID: <970621095957_100433.1541_BHG38-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"95B633.0.SW4.hPwgp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8576 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Rick, > Or perhaps just as likely live forever among the "undead"? > Sometimes I think *I'm* amongst them already, with 'success at > last' lurking just one little adjustment away... ... maybe a > fresh ball ... ... polish the rails a little here ... ... Yes, I was thinking about that when I wrote. But, if people can't get Greg's kits to work, then the whole thing is dead as far as I'm concerned. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 06:01:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA02522; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 05:57:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 05:57:33 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 14:57:39 +0200 (METDST) Message-Id: <199706211257.OAA24068 imaginet.fr> X-Sender: lentin mail2.imaginet.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jean-Pierre Lentin Subject: RE : chemo-astro-connection Resent-Message-ID: <"jcDpg1.0.Kd.y-ygp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8577 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Ross & Vorts Ross Tessien raised an interesting point with this Russian research about astronomical factors influencing the speed of certain standardized chemical reactions (especially those involving polar liquids like water and/or colloids). I often wonder if it might be relevant each time I hear about an effect which seems hard to replicate regularly or shows unexplained fluctuations - i.e. "water memory" experiments, cold fusion cells, tests of the Potapov device... (SMOT is another matter - no water or colloids here !) I would like to point that this work begun in the 1930's, with Giorgio Piccardi, a chemistry professor at Genova University, Italy (and then Firenze after the war. He died in 1972). Initially, he was intrigued by the effects of magnetic fields on water, and proceeded to study various "ambient fluctuations" effects. After 1950, the main colloborator of Piccardi was electrochemist Carmen Capel-Boute, from Belgium (I met her in 1990, she was 76 and still very active in research). An international society was founded in 1957 (now named CIFA,or ICEF in English, International Committee for Research and Study of Environmental Factors ). Tests with a standard and automatized reaction of bismuth oxychloride were performed for years all over the world (including high altitude places, Arctic, Equatorial Africa, Sapporo in Japan...). In the USA same work was done for 1965-1968 by 4 researchers (W.H. Fischer with G.E. Sturdy, M.E. Ryan & R. Pugh) at National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder. Correlations for the varying speed of reaction were found with solar flares and spots, terrestrial magnetism, all sorts of atmospheric low frequency EM fields, cycles of ionosphere and ozone layer, position of the Earth in space, cosmic rays... Main explanatory theory was changes in water's molecular structure. An enormous amont of data has been collected, and work is still in progress. Quite fascinating and little known subject. Now Russians researchers seem to be the majority at CIFA. Web site is : http://www.vive.com/connect/universe/rt-cifa.htm Speaking of water's molecular structure, see the latest New Scientist issue (21 june 1997), article by Robert Matthews on "Wacky water", with new research in UK linking water and ZPF ! Regards to all --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Pierre Lentin lentin imaginet.fr --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 06:11:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA06320; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 06:10:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 06:10:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 08:09:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706211309.IAA06949 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Transmutation evidence Resent-Message-ID: <"Z8lFq3.0.cY1.tAzgp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8578 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 03:13 AM 6/21/97 -0700, Rich Murray wrote: >There must be some way to get Kennel and al to run their high resolution >SIMS at $ 5,000 per run on before and after cathodes from Dash, Mizuno, >Ohmori, Bockris, Claytor, McKubre, Miley, Miles, and Blacklight Power... Very good suggestion...$$$! Can anyone offer an explanation for the high cost of this analysis? Does SIMS analysis use expensive consumables? Does each analysis occupy an expert analyst for an entire week days (e.g. 50 hours at $100/hr)? Does the SIMS equipment have a very limited life (e.g. $500,000 machine can only perform 100 analyses before it needs replacement)? Used to fast, inexpensive XRF analysis - Scott From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 07:23:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA13106; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 07:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 07:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33ABFDA6.6B22 keelynet.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 09:13:26 -0700 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: RE : chemo-astro-connection References: <199706211257.OAA24068 imaginet.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"E1r8q.0.dC3.JE-gp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8579 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jean-Pierre! With regard to planetary and other cosmic influences on chemical reactions, you should check into the work of Lily Kolisko....I believe Borderlands has at least one book by her where she used filter papers saturated with various salts....they were dried over periods when a certain planetary influence prevailed and they ALWAYS took the same pattern for that energy.....Kolisko died many years ago. An American researcher in this field is Burl Payne, who has been using a telescope to capture stellar emanations in water or other molecular aggregations....thanks for the info and website you provided! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 07:42:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA16682; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 07:40:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 07:40:53 -0700 Date: 21 Jun 97 10:40:00 EDT From: Gene <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: VORTEX Subject: Europa Image -- AC Clarke Request Message-ID: <970621143959_76570.2270_FHU43-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"YazWB.0.a44.qV-gp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8580 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: TO Vortexians: From: Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief Infinite Energy Magazine Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. PO Box 2816 Concord, NH 03302 Phone: 603-228-4516 Fax: 603-224-5975 76570.2270 compuserve.com ************** This is off-topic, but important. My good friend Arthur C. Clarke has written to me and to others about an unusual frame from the Galileo mission data. This frame may be viewed at: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/europa/PIA00588_full The frame is a Europa image of 140 x 130 km, with 180m resolution. To quote from ACC's note of May 27, 1997: "It shows a landscape (or icescape) covered with ridges and what looks like intersecting superhighways, some extending for 100 Km or more, although many are broken by obvious shearing movement of the underlying terrain. Puzzling though these are, they do not suggest intelligent planning --indeed, rather the opposite!" "But there is one conspicuous exception, which I pointed out to JPL's Dr Doyle earlier this month. About an eigth of the way down from the top of the image, a very narrow line runs completely across the frame. It is of uniform thickness and perfectly straight, except for two slight deviations apparently associated with major changes of level. Any unbiased observer, not knowing the orign of this image, would have no hesitation in proclaiming the line to be artificial. However, one thing rather puzzles me -- it seems a remarkable coincidence that it is so nearly parallel to the top edge of the image. Could it, in fact, be an artefact of the software -- or perhaps of the Galileo scan platform?" "In any case, it is imperative to examine the two adjacent frames to see if the line also proceeds across them --and if so, to determine its total length." "I urgently appeal for further investigation --if the result is what I hope it may be, NASA's budget worries will be over!" --Dr. Arthur C. Clarke, CBE From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 09:48:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA01115; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 09:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 09:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 08:45:01 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Europa Image -- AC Clarke Request Resent-Message-ID: <"uXFKU3.0.IH.4M0hp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8582 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:40 AM 6/21/97, Gene wrote: >TO Vortexians: [snip] > This frame may be viewed at: > >http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/europa/PIA00588_full > [snip] I got a "file not located on this server" message when accessing . Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 09:44:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA00561; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 09:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 09:42:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: llano5 earthlink.net (by way of "Frederick J. Sparber" ) Subject: Poop-Poopa-doop Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:41:16 +0000 Message-ID: <19970621164114.AAA24711 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"ceRfN.0.g8.9I0hp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8581 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Welcome to Barnyard Poop'pourri! NO...it's not another Internet scam! Lord knows we're just good ole honest folks out here.=20 It's for real and it's for fun! Undoubtedly, You've seen and heard about all of the "IN" products that are selling right here in New Mexico, the Land of Enchantment. I know you've seen those...those dumb wooden coyotes, Kokopelli T-shirts, fake turquoise bolo ties...on...and on...and on.=20 Well, now comes natural, sun dried, organically correct, politically appropriate, Farm Fresh Fragrances. The new "IN" gift that is produced, bottled and gift wrapped right here in Tome, New Mexico. You know, just a stones throw from Los Lunas. Until now, you have not been able to purchase these items in Department stores, On Line Malls, 7-11's or even your favorite flea market.=20 Essence of Asse Scents of Stallion Hints of Horse Pungonce of Pig Delusions of Donkey (my favorite) Karma of Cow Belgerance of Bull Rapture of Rabbit Margins of Mule Aura de Toro (my second favorite) Lingering of Lamb=20 ...and much much more. These unusual...(no strange) creations, are perfect for the ones you love (kinda), the ones you don't love so much (alot) and finally for that special, pretentious somebody, who needs the right message!=20 All Farm Fresh Fragrances are completely sun dried by the Enchanting New Mexico Sun. Each selection is then carefully packaged and sealed in an attractive, yet ever so charming, old time jar. You know, the kind you'd find in a quaint little store in Tome NM. It is handsomely decorated with a specially selected designer burlap. Then, each treasure is tenderly topped with a blue ribbon, and it's fine blue ribbon. Just like in the picture above. Each jar is professionally labled with a turquiose colored card, you know the kind you'd find in NM, and includes a brief, but informative biography of the orginator (my favorite, "Buckwheat - Delusions of Donkey") Finally, each selection is attractively gift wrapped and ready to ship the same day, anywhere in the world...annonymously if you like.=20 Farm Fresh Fragrances from Tome, New Mexico - $7.95 + postage. Please contact us for quantities greater than 10. For your security and protection, we accept Visa, Mastercard.=20 All orders are guaranteed for your satisfaction or we will gladly refund your purchase, less postage.=20 For more info: poop scent.com =AE Spectrum International is a Licensed Company in New Mexico. All rights are reserved. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 10:26:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA05192; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33ABFD76.D707E657 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:12:38 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Europa Image -- AC Clarke Request X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HeJfq2.0._G1.Wv0hp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8583 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, Horace Heffner wrote: > I got a "file not located on this server" message when accessing > . You need to add ".jpg" to the end. "http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/europa/PIA00588_full.jpg" I did not noticed anything unnatural here. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 11:38:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA26062; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:36:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:36:51 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: SMOT Effects vs Magnetic Refrigeration Patents. Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 18:36:34 +0000 Message-ID: <19970621183632.AAA9830 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"GbdVs1.0.4N6.2z1hp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8584 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To Vortex: Rick: I found 29 patent abstracts on magnetic refrigeration on the www.uspto.gov boolean search page, under ("magnetic refrigeration"). Most work at cryogenic temps (70 K or less)but, No. 4,107,935 (August 22,1978) claims 70% Carnot efficiency at "high temperature". "Magnetic substance is heated in zero field and adiabatically magnetized then cooled in high field, followed by adiabatic demagnetization". All of these steps in a SMOT setup, when you take all of the "artifacts" like ball temp, air temp, geomagnetic field, track temp, etc., into account? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 11:46:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA16863; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:44:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:44:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: 21 Jun 97 14:38:14 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Europa Image -- AC Clarke Request Message-ID: <970621183813_76016.2701_JHC72-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"VQy_23.0.P74.w32hp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8585 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gene, I agree with Clarke that this is quite odd. I have attached a smaller .uue file of the area near the top right of the image where an impact crater struck the horizontal line. If it is an artifical structure, it was rendered inoperable by the impact. I will forward to the proper MUFON consultant for an opinion. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 12:06:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA30522; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:04:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:04:59 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:03:45 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Poop-Poopa-doop Resent-Message-ID: <"28mbv2.0.pS7.QN2hp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8586 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 8:41 AM 6/21/97, llano5 earthlink.net (by way of "Frederick J. Sparber" [snip] >Finally, each selection is attractively gift wrapped and ready >to ship the same day, anywhere in the world...annonymously >if you like. > >Farm Fresh Fragrances from Tome, New Mexico - $7.95 + postage. Please >contact us for quantities greater than 10. > [snip] A related phenomenon was all the rage in Alaska in the 70's, and still prevails a bit in the state of the undead. The phenomenon is "moose nuggets." In the winter when the moose come down out of the mountains for forage, they eat mostly birch bark. Their droppings, normally found in flat piles about a foot in diameter, consist of smooth and rounded pecan sized nuggets of a material similar to a composition board made of sawdust and resin. Once fully dried they can take a stain finish and sand and varnish very nicely. There are lots of these nuggets in the woods behind my house, as there are near many Alaskans' homes. At least you don't have to worry about stepping in them like you do with bear scat. During the pipeline days various gift shops etc. carried moose nugget ear rings, bracelets, buttons, cocktail stirrers with moose nugget handles, etc. There was a large number of these items shipped by US Mail, especially around Christmas. After some years of this it finally dawned on some post office personnel that the moose nugget jewelry actually was made from moose nuggets, thus was prohibited from being shipped in the US Mail, even if varnished and polished. Ad ad campaign was then launched by the post office to inform people that it is illegal to ship feces of any kind through the US Mail. Aerosol cans with fresh Alaska air, and glacial ice then became follow on fads. The canned air didn't do well (but might make a nice complementary addition to the Farm Fresh Fragrances) but the 10,000 year old blue glacial ice now garners a premium in the Japanese market. It has a special bubble and pop. I wonder if making profitable products out of next to nothing (or worse) constitutes ou? Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 12:29:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA21796; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33AC2A15.1936 skylink.net> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:23:01 -0700 From: Robert Stirniman X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Europa Image -- AC Clarke Request References: <970621183813_76016.2701_JHC72-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bizbZ.0.KK5.Ah2hp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8588 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't anything about the dynamics of ice floes. Maybe someone could render an expert opinion about the ability to naturally imitate an interstate highway system. And, maybe they can somehow naturally re-route themselves around an impact crater? Robert Stirniman From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 12:28:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA00740; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:25:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:25:14 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706211922.MAA08898 franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szdanq peseta.ucdavis.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Dan Quickert Subject: Re: SMOT as Time Machine Resent-Message-ID: <"Hzs7h3.0.MB.Og2hp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8587 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick, [snip] >Instead of a driveway, you'd have a >spur section and a blue hole at the end to drop through to your sunken >garage (better get that suspension upgraded on the DeLorean). > >- Rick Monteverde, gently deteriorating in: >Honolulu, HI > While you're at it better get a new body for that DeLorean, they were made of stainless steel, not very good for smotting along. Dan, picking away... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 12:31:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA01879; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:29:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:29:42 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33ABFD76.D707E657 verisoft.com.tr> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 09:28:12 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Europa Image -- AC Clarke Request Resent-Message-ID: <"j60HJ2.0.HT.bk2hp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8589 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hamdi - > I did not noticed anything unnatural here. Except for the small missle launch complex and radar station near the lower center of the image, I didn't either. :) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 12:39:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA22866; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:37:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19970621183632.AAA9830 LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 09:34:58 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: SMOT Effects vs Magnetic Refrigeration Patents. Resent-Message-ID: <"Y9IlB3.0.Cb5.rr2hp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8590 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick - > All of these steps in a SMOT setup, when you take > all of the "artifacts" like ball temp, air temp, > geomagnetic field, track temp, etc., into account? > :-) Ok, if it helps me get a level rollaway. :) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 12:42:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA02979; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:37:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:37:20 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:36:05 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Faces on Europa Resent-Message-ID: <"olKkX1.0.Tk.lr2hp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8591 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Thanks to Hamdi for the full URL: "http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/europa/PIA00588_full.jpg" Notice at the bottom right of the JPG in bas relief is the head of an angel, complete with halo. It is in the apex of the trangle formed by the pressure ridge running up from the lower right corner of the frame, a wider ridge coming up from the left, and the bottom right side of the frame. Various other rasied areas in the vicinity look like faces also, one with a helmet similar to the face on mars. Anchorage has an ice sculpturing contest annually in February at Fur Rendezvous, where people carve huge blocks of ice/snow. Maybe the kids on Europa do something similar? 8^) Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 13:12:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA26388; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:10:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:10:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706212009.NAA11483 franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szdanq peseta.ucdavis.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Dan Quickert Subject: Re: Something rotten in SMOT? Resent-Message-ID: <"jVNRQ.0.AS6.XK3hp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8592 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: >Or perhaps just as likely live forever among the "undead"? Sometimes I >think *I'm* amongst them already, with 'success at last' lurking just one >little adjustment away... ... maybe a fresh ball ... ... polish the >rails a little here ... ... > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > >"zzzzooppp-whup-p-p-p...(clickety-clackity)...ka-CHUNK" >[ball sticking up under magnet array, then entire array alignment being >destroyed during fat-fingered recovery attempt] > LOL! (albeit a bit nervously)... Rick, you get my humorist-of-the-week award... I *think* it's funny... How many times has that happened to every one of us? Have you tried working with NdFeB for really wacky adventures? Epitaxy's got big glass balls on glass rails and big Neo magnets; he must wear body armor when working on the thing. Dan Quickert From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 13:41:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA12495; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:38:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:38:23 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: SMOT Effects vs Magnetic Refrigeration Patents. Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:38:02 +0000 Message-ID: <19970621203800.AAA26860 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"5Pp7m1.0.933._k3hp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8593 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:34 PM 6/21/97 +0000, Rick wrote: >Frederick - > > > All of these steps in a SMOT setup, when you take > > all of the "artifacts" like ball temp, air temp, > > geomagnetic field, track temp, etc., into account? > > :-) > >Ok, if it helps me get a level rollaway. :) Probably can, if the "rollaway" ramp is immersed in melted solder (lead-free, 95.5% tin, 4% Cu, 0.5% Ag, M.P. 500 F). Of course now you're talking serious heat engine. :-) Regards, Frederick > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 13:42:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA01277; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:41:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:37:17 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Long SMOT ramp behavior Resent-Message-ID: <"EV34f3.0.nJ.Pn3hp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8594 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Martin - > Where does the ball end up in your extremely long array? At the end of the half-meter array, it's stuck in the end at the blue hole of the last array section, just as if that were the only array. That's with the frame tilted so it's in 'ramp' mode. Left horizontal on a true flat surface, the ball runs more powerfully, and usually reflects off the "wall" at the end and snaps back for some oscillations, ending up settling somewhere in the middle. I can see a 'fractal' sort of effect, where the whole ramp seems to act a bit like a smaller array of simply parallel magnets, maybe very slightly angled together towards one end, because the ball will tend to settle near that area if it's left to oscillate off a 'wall' rebound, or again if the ball is placed within the array somewhere rather than allowed to enter normally from the end. But that parallel array type of behavior seems to be strongly overridden by the individual array sections in link mode if the ball enters normally from the end. On typical run, the ball doesn't seem to slow down in the middle, but rather speeds up at first, seems to find a steady but well-powered 'stride' through the mid sections, and then slows a bit as it nears the last sections. The second to last section seems to be the weak point - it's the first place the ball fails during increasing ramp angle experiments. One detail about linking in this ramp. I can simply butt 1-2-3-4 arrays end to end, all taped up against a plastic guide rail on each side of the track so they are all parallel on their inner (track-facing) faces. The ball will roll through if the whole array is flat, but it's coggy and it doesn't climb in ramp mode very well. I have 5/16" threaded rods stuck magnetically to the outsides of these arrays, where the rods just stick across the 'tops' of the arrays, at the '4' stacks. They're on the outside edge of the array. They help smooth things out. Then I found I could further smooth the cogging without losing performance (it seemed to gain, actually) by placing a magnet in the thin spot where a '4' stack joins the '1' end of the following array. I don't place the magnet in like a brick as if it were taped in with the 1-2-3-4 array to create a 2-2-3-4, but it's standing up on end in that gap, sort of leaned back against the '4' stack. I should probably just shoot a picture of this thing and make a GIF. I was not correct saying this ramp was "1-2-3-4,2-3-4,2-3-4." It's 1-2-3-4, *2-2-3-4, *2-2-3-4. > What does that mean? Do you mean they're 27 mm > apart? Is this the thickness of a stack of magnets? Yes, 27mm apart. The gap between arrays with the track in the middle is around 27mm wide. > Very interesting! I guess too fast and the eddy > currents cause too much drag. Too slow and the ball > can't "tunnel" through the various magnetic hills. I > still can't fathom why this system works. It's > totally fascinating! Do our resident magetic field > experts have an idea? This is a very interesting > alternative approach. I have a mind to start > churning out 1-2-3-4-5 magnets so I'll have a go > at this too. Maybe not 0.5 meters but say 4 or 5 of > (1-2-3-4-5) pairs. I'm not sure whether to be amazed that this long ramp works as well as it does, or just write it off as another of the SMOT's deceptions. It takes very little energy to move a ball down 500mm of polished track. But to do it so *fast* and/or make it climb... I don't know yet. Need more magnets. 2 or more meters of solid travel with no signs of weakness or slowdown proportional to the increasing length might just convince me. I have yet to test any magnets-on-a-cart, ferrite-by-the-track things. Probably doesn't work, but if it did - it would sure save on magnets. I've found that a heavy gauge foil tape is an good way to assemble magnet arrays. Using a strip of Sintra plastic the height of the magnets as a 'backbone' or starting support frame that gets taped in with the magnets, I can easily line them up and tape them in against their tendency to fly apart in these stacked arrays. They look cool too, all wrapped up in shiny aluminum foil. The foil's thin, so I don't think there's any significant eddy losses from the tape. I think I'm about to abandon aluminum or brass tracks for acrylic too. I can't get a decent drop 'S' made from aluminum tracks, but it would be easy cutting a pair of sheets clamped together in any profile you wanted to. I've made test sections of acrylic track where the track is cut out by successive table saw cuts forming a dado cut or groove, then block-sanding and polishing the sides and edges of the slot. *Very* quiet low friction ride, and seems to be more dust-tolerant than the harder metal rails. The friction is so low, I use these for my levels now to check for tilts when I want a dead horizontal run. Probably not too durable for those long closed-loop tests, but that's not been a problem for me yet. BTW, Nikola Tesla did some work on homopolars with steel discs and magnet arrays which looked superficially like a SMOT array - just a pair of parallel bars running radially on either side of the disc, polarized on their long faces. He shows in a patent how the slightly persistent eddy currents can at times assist or retard the turning disc at different rpms. According to one source on this, and I don't know if this is from the patent or other literature, he is said to have been fascinated by some interesting possibilities with these devices, but moved on with other projects he favored more at the time. Tesla was not the New Age free-energy twinkie some people these days make him out to have been, and probably was not ever thinking of "overunity", which was a concept he probably didn't believe in. But he did "see something" related to rotating steel in a magnetic field with his amazing and visionary mind. We may be finding out what it was. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 14:18:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA17853 for billb@eskimo.com; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 14:18:35 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 14:18:35 -0700 X-Envelope-From: monteverde worldnet.att.net Sat Jun 21 14:18:33 1997 Received: from mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net (mailhost.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.34]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA17824 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 14:18:24 -0700 Received: from [207.147.196.81] by mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAB11439 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:18:06 +0000 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1345194652==_============" Old-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:16:49 -1000 To: Vortex-L From: Rick Monteverde Subject: half-meter SMOT closeup (40K) X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: vortex-l Status: O X-Status: --============_-1345194652==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here's a close-up of part of the half-meter SMOT array, showing the linking arrangement of the stacked arrays. It's about 40K, so I hope this makes it through Beaty's attachment size filter. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI --============_-1345194652==_============ Content-Type: image/gif; name="SMOTARR.GIF" ; x-mac-type="47494666" ; x-mac-creator="3842494D" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="SMOTARR.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhCwHHAPf/AP///xAQECEhITExMUpKSlpaWmtra4yMjKWlpb29vd7e3u/v7zEp KSkhIRAICDEYGCEQEEIYEIxza3NaUiEIAK2clL2cjDEhGEoxIeethEIpGKWEa961lMa9 taWclOfWxsa1pWNaUqWUhNa9pUI5MdbOxlJKQt7GrcatlN69nNa1lDEpIYxzWlJCMWtS OYxjOXNKIVo5GFIxEIyEe2tjWue9jOeta6V7SoRaKYxaIf/etffWrefGnM6thPfOnN61 hLWUa9ate6WEWoxrQoRjOZRrOXtSIa2chNa9nLWce3tjQpxzOYxjKcalc72ca6WEUmtK GLWljJxzMYxjIaWcjL2le62MUlpCGHtaId7WxntzY+/evVpSQpR7Ss7GtbWtnHNrWkpC Me/nzpSMc4yEa//vvf/3zu/v5/f37///997e1ufn3r29tf//73Nza4SEe2trY1paUpSU hISEc3t7a3NzY97evZyljL3GtcbOxs7WzpSclJylnISMhGtza2NzYxghGLXGvef376XG va21td7v78bW1uf//5ytrZSlpcbe3s7n5zlCQjE5OWNzc5S1tbXe3iEpKRghIQgQEAAI 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vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 14:21:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA04456; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 14:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 14:19:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1345194665==_============" Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:16:45 -1000 To: Vortex-L From: Rick Monteverde Subject: half-meter SMOT image (24K) Resent-Message-ID: <"hmBDS3.0.Y51.YL4hp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8595 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --============_-1345194665==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here's a GIF of the half meter long SMOt array I've been playing with. The larger exit array stuck to the end is a 1-2-3-4-5 pair I made for the Mark II tests, which will have to await my building a nicer exit 'S' section out of plastic. I'm getting nowhere with aluminum track on that. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI --============_-1345194665==_============ Content-Type: image/gif; name="BIGSMOT.GIF" ; x-mac-type="47494666" ; x-mac-creator="3842494D" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="BIGSMOT.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhQAFGAPf/AP///ykpKXNra1pSUv/e3nNjY+/Ozv/W1lJCQv/OzsacnHNaWpRz c2tSUoRjY96lpTkpKc6UlL2EhGtKSjEhIaVra717e86EhJxaWms5OUIhIa05OTEICAgA AN5KQs6MhPdrWt5CMf/OxqVza72Ee61za4xaUpxjWoRKQv/WzsaclNalnM57a85zY62E e++llOecjN6UhM6Ec72clK2MhJRza96cjGtKQs6Me61rWlIxKefGvd6llM6UhJR7c9al lMaUhFI5MZxrWt6Ue86Ea3tKOf9jMUIQAOe9raV7a/9SEO+1nNachJRrWs6Ue4xjUsaM c7V7Y9aEY2tCMf9aGN5CAMa1rf/ezvfWxta1pUIxKb2Ea+ece86EY5xjSueMY3tCKWs5 IXsxEP/v5+/OvffGre+tjIRSOZxaOUopGMZCAMachKV7Y4RaQpxjQu/Wxta9rbWcjNat lLWMc2tSQoxjSueca61rQoRSMVoxGEohCMatnP/exoRrWpxrSqVrQt6MUntKKa2Mc8ac e96le/etc2tKMf+MMffOrdatjPfGnOete5xzUr2MY617Ur2EUuecWpxjMXNaQv+tY//v 3lJKQv/nzvfWtd69nP/WrTEpIaWEY++9jP/GjIxrSs6ca5xzSq17SoxjOZxrOc6MSjEh 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Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:20:27 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Faces on Europa Resent-Message-ID: <"0LfzC1.0.j91.XO4hp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8596 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace - >Notice at the bottom right of the JPG in bas relief is the head of an >angel, complete with halo. It is in the apex of the trangle formed by the >pressure ridge running up from the lower right corner of the frame, a wider >ridge coming up from the left, and the bottom right side of the frame. >Various other rasied areas in the vicinity look like faces also, one with a >helmet similar to the face on mars. It looks like some serious iceworm activity (wormsign) to me. May be related to their Arrakian sand dune bretheren. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 15:41:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA30869; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 15:39:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 15:39:57 -0700 From: rvanspaa eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: USA Today17/ June reports giant UFO flies over Pheonix Az USA Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:39:39 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <33ac524b.4743985 mail.eisa.net.au> References: <33af1d34.7197971@mail.eisa.net.au> <33AB03BC.F71A17D5@verisoft.com.tr> In-Reply-To: <33AB03BC.F71A17D5 verisoft.com.tr> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Du-CK3.0.4Y7.wW5hp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8598 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:27:08 +0400, Hamdi Ucar wrote: [snip] >The movie file is too large for my slow connection. Could you give more >information on the sequence of the lights. If they are 5 of them are >blinking like the data bits in patterns, the most popular 5 bits code >system is the the telex standard. Anyway, it can be easily interpreted >if they carry information. [snip] The film jumps around a bit so its difficult to follow. That's one reason I asked in the first place. I thought perhaps someone might recognise individual characters here and there, immediately. Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 15:43:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA13272; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 15:40:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 15:40:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 17:38:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706212238.RAA06607 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Long SMOT ramp behavior Resent-Message-ID: <"fcc3I.0.EF3.4X5hp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8597 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 10:37 AM 6/21/97 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >I'm not sure whether to be amazed that this long ramp works as well as it >does, or just write it off as another of the SMOT's deceptions. We experimented with a similar configuration but, in yr parlance, it was a bunch of 2-2-2-2 arrays butted together. In other words, simply a long section of track lined with double rows of magnets on each side. The ball entered the magnet area and accelerated to a suprisingly high speed, zooming down to the other end of the magnets where it "bounces" off the mag potential well. It would never exit the far end, even when the track was level. Seemed normal to me. Scott From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 16:03:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA01717; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:02:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:02:14 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:02:08 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: Vortex Subject: Re: Very quick report on SMOT V2.0 beta. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"FS0fq.0.fQ.qr5hp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8599 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 21 Jun 1997, Martin Sevior wrote: > On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Rick Monteverde wrote: > > > [Reposted here from e-mail] > > > > Martin Sevior wrote: > > > > [snip] > > > > > PS. Did I read correctly that you can trasnport a > > > ball long distances with a series of magnet wedges > > > stuck butt to tail? ie. > > > (1-2-3-4)(2-3-4)(2-3-4)(2-3-4)? > > > > Yes, that's it. With the most recent addition of a 12345 pair on the end, > > it's around 500mm long now, and it's amazing on the horizontal - the ball > > moves pretty fast down the entire length. It shows no sign of weakness in > > horizontal mode the more arrays I add. As a ramp, more mags increase the > > final height too. I wish I had 1000 or so magnets, I'd just keep going and > > see where it started to weaken. It would sure be weird if it didn't! Hi Martin! If your array is easily disassembled, one thing you could do (using only the magnets you have) is to plot the array length versus the amount of lift attainable through tilting the array. Even without having many magnets, you could quickly see if the lifting height is a linear function of the array length, or if the graph is curving down and starting to approach a limit. If doubling the array length always doubles the lifting height, does this imply excess energy? I don't have a solid feel for this relationship. Shouldn't a longer and longer array give less and less lifting height, until maximum height is obtained via a VERY long array? I suspect that this is the case, since for a long thin array, increasing the array length shouldn't increase the force exerted by the end "pole" of the array. At least, according to C of E it should work like this. If it does not, then we can dispense with SMOT structure and simply use very long simple arrays. > > Sometimes I'm fiddling with the array or trying > > for lift, and the ball won't pass the next to last array or something. So I > > adjust and fiddle some more, and it still won't go. So in frustration > > sometimes, I start 'spiking' the ball into the entrance, and it *still* > > won't go. I've even shot it in like a marble off my thumb with quite a bit > > of force in circumstances like this, and not had it pass the flaw or weak > > spot - then I might just polish the rails a little bit, and the ball makes > > it up from a standing start. Obviously there is a time dependent process at > > work as the ball passes magnets. Eddy current growth and decay rates, > > magnetization and demag rates, or a combination, or maybe something else. > > But if you try to exceed the 'speed limit', the effect just runs negative > > on the ball at that point, and there's no gain, just the braking off of the > > excess speed. You can spike through one ramp and not really see this, but > > the braking effect is obvious on the long ramp. I noticed this too (on an untilted ramp.) Some of it comes from a weird friction source: the ball moves fast, then the magnets suddenly brake it while NOT stopping it's spin. The ball halts first, THEN its spin is stopped by friction against the rails. When this occurs, the KE of the ball is eaten up, and it doesn't oscillate or continue forward as one might expect. If you launch a ball backwards through the array, this doesn't seem to happen. Assymetry. Strange to watch it drift backwards through the system from a standing start, when in the same system it will not pass the "braking" point even if launched violently by hand! Another thought: I wonder if the graphite on the track affects conductivity of the contact points between ball and aluminum. Maybe n-gauge track would act differently, not having a conductive link between the two halves. (I don't have any to mess with, just aluminum extrusion.) .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 16:32:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA05556; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:31:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:31:53 -0700 Message-Id: <33AC5103.43173386 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 02:09:07 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Faces on Europa X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nUpas.0.kM1.eH6hp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8600 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > It looks like some serious iceworm activity (wormsign) to me. May be > related to their Arrakian sand dune bretheren. Very good hypothesis. Indeed, it is difficult to explain all the tracks to geological origin. May some of them show clearly a geologic movements as cut and shifted tracks but the curved tracks and absence of tracks which suffered from the same squeezing effect can be hardly explained by simple geological movements. In other pictures broken and tilted and ice blocks are can be easily recognized but this one have a different story. The dump areas also may have organic origin. Regards, Hamdi Ucar, The expert From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 16:34:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA20723; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33AC5414.C25AC215 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 02:22:12 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Re: half-meter SMOT image (24K) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H10U11.0.i35.RI6hp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8601 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Rick, My hand is healing quickly. According my hypothesis, the return flux should be present on the path of the ball. If you not get roll away with this one you may try separating each blocks a bit to return flux enter little between. I guarantee an effective breaking effect with this if roll away is not realized. Regards, Hamdi Ucar, The Expert From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 16:55:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA07203; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:49:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:49:07 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 17:55:03 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Deep Breath (count to 10 - again.again) In-Reply-To: <199706212009.NAA11483 franc.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"E0od2.0.Pm1.oX6hp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8602 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > >Or perhaps just as likely live forever among the "undead"? Sometimes I > >think *I'm* amongst them already, with 'success at last' lurking just one > >little adjustment away... ... maybe a fresh ball ... ... polish the > >rails a little here ... ... > > > >- Rick Monteverde > >Honolulu, HI > > > > > >"zzzzooppp-whup-p-p-p...(clickety-clackity)...ka-CHUNK" > >[ball sticking up under magnet array, then entire array alignment being > >destroyed during fat-fingered recovery attempt] > > > > LOL! (albeit a bit nervously)... Rick, you get my humorist-of-the-week > award... I *think* it's funny... How many times has that happened to every > one of us? Have you tried working with NdFeB for really wacky adventures? > Epitaxy's got big glass balls on glass rails and big Neo magnets; he must > wear body armor when working on the thing. > > Dan Quickert > AND someone 'earlier asked' then WHY WASN'T THIS DISCOVERED BEFORE..! (to them Try-it, You'll LIKE-it You'll KNOW why!) Off again to BITE+ it (Be infinite to Everything) adjustment - wise "TRY_THAT for body armour" :) yes, I'm still smiling, but has anyone else noted that for up being down.. lower/slower being better for a "obviously EaSy ExPeRiMeNt", This is teaching us lessons in about 10 different fields of observation.. (I won't even join the mag-cooling group yet, BUT if that works too .. this better be worth something (effort-wise)). I know I threw down my pre-adolescence MAGnets years ago...knowing THIS WENT NO-WHERE. Why are my 'older Wiser-eyes so Blinded' by the Blue-hole. It's not like we're building a Mechanical Wheat Reaper or anything :) is it?? -se- ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 17:00:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA23676; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 18:57:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706212357.SAA11009 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Ragland triode update Resent-Message-ID: <"ONI6e2.0.qn5.Qg6hp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8603 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: It's about 1820 hours on 21JUN97 here in rainy Austin TX. Our 2nd Ragland triode run is in its 103rd hour now. Here's a brief history: hour action 0 start calorimeter...awaiting equilibrium 4.5 begin charging at 200/300 mA/cm^2 8 sec switching interval 31.5 turn up to 400/600 mA/cm^2 stay at 8 sec 55.5 change to 200/600 mA/cm^2 stay at 8 sec 71.5 go to 300/700 mA/cm^2 stay at 8 sec 103.5 go to 500/700 mA/cm^2 increase to 16 sec Cumulative energy integration thus far is 1.650 Mj in and 1.652 Mj out for an Eout/Ein ratio of 1.001. Our anodes are very well balanced in this run: current A1 A2 500 mA/cm^2 5.88 v 5.83 v 700 mA/cm^2 6.66 v 6.59 v The latest change in current density and cycle timing is intended to squeeze harder and longer in each direction in a effort to achieve the necessary D/Pd loading in the cathode. Pictures of the cell and a brief description of the calorimeter can be found on our web page under Water Flow Calorimetry (address below). Tip: A drop of bleach in the cooling water once/week keeps this physics experiment from becoming a biology experiment. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 17:19:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA11770; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 17:18:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 17:18:21 -0700 Message-Id: <33AC5EFD.9967C2CB verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 03:08:45 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Speed kills X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cKJzf.0.lt2.Dz6hp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8604 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Yes, the excess acceleration and deceleration cause sliding and kill the KE (it can be hear). Remedy is use of heavier balls, lifting the track respect to magnets, decrease the gradient or weakening the magnetism. And other critical sliding point is the top rounding of the exit. If the radius is large, ball start to get down without slowing enough and loosing weight it slide. Regards, Hamdi Ucar, The Hang-Glider From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 18:26:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA01671; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 18:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 18:24:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Laws, Rules, Principles, Effects, Paradoxes, Etc. Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:23:01 +0000 Message-ID: <19970622012258.AAA23802 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"S2byc2.0.wP.Hx7hp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8605 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To Vortex: Found a Web Page that lists all the above plus lots and lots more. Looks good for reference. Runs 15 pages of about 9 or so font size in grayscale. http://www.dnai.com/~zap/laws.txt Lots of Goodies. Could find the "Razor" though. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 18:44:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA03824; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 18:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 18:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: < snip.net> From: "Mike Carrell" To: Subject: Re: Europa Image -- AC Clarke Request Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 14:12:05 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19970622014306740.AAA274 default> Resent-Message-ID: <"HYFcI1.0.gx.dC8hp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8606 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I looked at the image and see two interesting artifacts. The one near the top is not the perfectly straight line one would expect as an artifact from a CCD camera array as would be used in the camera. It is slightly bowed, suggesting that it is a real feature on the surface of Europa. There is another, similar line, running upward to the right in the lower third of the image. This one crosses over one of the major "cracks". It is tempting to think of roads, but we have no information on the scale of the image nor the size of the features in question. The monolith is not to be seen, but of course it is of modest scale, or may be elsewhere. Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 19:22:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA26200; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 19:20:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 19:20:50 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199706212357.SAA11009 natasha.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:19:26 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Ragland triode update Resent-Message-ID: <"97LVG.0.IP6.1m8hp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8607 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott - > [...] an Eout/Ein ratio of 1.001 At what point does this OU figure begin to climb out from behind your error range? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 19:29:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA27623; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 19:28:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 19:28:34 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199706212238.RAA06607 natasha.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:17:08 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Long SMOT ramp behavior Resent-Message-ID: <"MFEi63.0.Sl6.It8hp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8608 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott - > We experimented with a similar configuration but, > in yr parlance, it was a bunch of 2-2-2-2 arrays > butted together. In other words, simply a long > section of track lined with double rows of magnets > on each side. The ball entered the magnet area and > accelerated to a suprisingly high speed, zooming > down to the other end of the magnets where it > "bounces" off the mag potential well. It would > never exit the far end, even when the track was > level. Seemed normal to me. Me too. I see no real sign of overunity yet. I think this long array is the equivalent of a large U-shaped track. If you had a track with one half of the 'U' at each end which were several inches or so high, and a fairly level long section between, you could probably extend that midsection quite a bit before seeing any real noticable performance loss. After giving it more consideration, I'm backing off my "2 meters" statement - it could probably roll for several and make it back up near the top of the opposite half-U. Of course I haven't tried this, and probably won't. But I don't think this thing has any OU in it. If Greg's devices do, it's coming from that drop out relatively free from the fields. These flat linked attempts at rollaway have shown me that the thing is conventional so far. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 20:19:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA03920; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:17:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:17:37 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:17:32 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Retarding of Science, AARSE award form Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PSZPz1.0.Az.Hb9hp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8609 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Good stuff from http://www.npl.washington.edu/AV/altvw04.html, the "Alternate View" column from Analog SF magazine. Also see: http://www.npl.washington.edu/AV/ .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page The Retarding of Science by John G. Cramer The 1984 Gold-Plated AARSE AWARD Whereas, Science, Engineering, and Technology are progressing altogether too rapidly as it is, and Whereas, it is all a person can do to become accustomed to the present technological changes without having even more scientific progress to get used to, and Whereas, it is high time that someone did something about it; We of AARSE, the American Association for the Retardation of Science and Engineering are proud to present to ________________________________________ the 1984 Gold-Plated AARSE Award for Meritorious Accomplishment, in recogniton or outstanding achievement in the Retardation of Scientific and Technical progress through cumulative efforts to delay, divert, discredit, obstruct, impead, and/or interfere with the work of scientists and engineers everywhere. Members of AARSE December 31, 1984 _________________________________________________________________ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 20:44:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA07666; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:43:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:43:02 -0700 Message-ID: <33AC954E.4985 pacbell.net> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:00:30 -0700 From: Hank Scudder Organization: Stochastic Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-PBXE (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Europa Image -- AC Clarke Request References: <970621143959_76570.2270_FHU43-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"B6H5a2.0.it1.4z9hp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8610 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gene wrote: > Gene Canals on Mars, Interstates on Europa, what's the big deal? Hank Scudder From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 20:59:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA10641; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:58:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:58:19 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Gates and Packer, Joint Venture Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 03:57:50 +0000 Message-ID: <19970622035748.AAA487 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"bjs1B3.0.Bc2.QBAhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8611 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick: Seems that Australia's "media magnate" and richest man, Kerry Packer worth $3.0 Billion U.S. and Bill Gates worth #30.0 Billion are embarking on a joint venture. Even though you say Murdock is "Richer Than God" it looks like Packer is richer yet. :-) Article on www.cnn.com (Sci-Tech.) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 21:06:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA20157; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:04:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:04:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Europa Image -- AC Clarke Request Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 04:03:22 +0000 Message-ID: <19970622040320.AAA2406 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"naI381.0.qw4.XHAhp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8612 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:00 AM 6/22/97 +0000, Hank Scudder wrote: >Gene wrote: >> Gene Canals on Mars, Interstates on Europa, what's the big deal? >Hank Scudder > You will see, Hank, when you start getting the bill for maintenance! :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 21:53:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA19000; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:52:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:52:02 -0700 From: Nackles aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970622005126_-193525631 emout17.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: The Day After Roswell - Corso Resent-Message-ID: <"yIShp.0.oe4.nzAhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8613 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am generally skeptical about these matters - but reading the posts about the Corso book triggered a memory. Probably still have to be careful what I say, security and MIB, etc.... Back in the early '80s, a couple of govt. agencies came to the defense contractor I was at, contracted for a (big) code suite to reverse engineer "space based neutral particle beam weapons". The idea being, given some very incomplete and fuzzy data on performance, look, engineering, physics, deduce as much new info as possible about performance and construction, actual engineering, using incomplete known info on engineering constraints, physics, etc. The data supplied on known engineering and physics was always briefed by civilian 'consultants', no printed docs of anything was supplied, just their written notes. Whenever we were told about a particular technology - gyrotrons, quadrupoles, reactors, etc - the technology was always "Russian in origin". But we could never get any documentation (several of us read scientific Russian, so we wanted more original material). In the light of the Corso claims, I find it interesting that all the key technologies we were given were always claimed to be "Russian", but never with any documentation. And the idea of some group in the govt wanting a reverse engineering code...FWIW..... Still Smotting, by the way, some of the time. Spending more time on my major interests - ELF-ULF electromagnetic stuff, taking another look that that old Townsend Brown claimed petrovoltaic effect, etc. But rebuilding some ramps now, per the latest info here. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 21 22:18:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA21672; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:16:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:16:43 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:16:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706220516.AAA26429 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Ragland triode update Resent-Message-ID: <"eGjOl3.0.LI5.vKBhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8614 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:19 PM 6/21/97 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Scott - > > > [...] an Eout/Ein ratio of 1.001 > >At what point does this OU figure begin to climb out from behind your error >range? Certainly not at 1.001! We are still gathering data on the performance of this new calorimeter so I cannot state a firm value for its uncertainty yet. However, the short-term average Pout/Pin ratio typically runs between 0.98 and 1.01. Once, during a period of expected stability, I have seen it run up as high as 1.03 for an hour or so before returning to ~1.00. That event, by the way, supports an old adage of mine: All calorimeters will, from time to time, produce a persistent 3 sigma positive result for no apparent reason. What this really means is that calorimeters tend to be subject to systematic errors which can be significant compared to the random noise error. Of course sometimes these systematic errors produce negative results as well. Judging by the performance of this system to date, I will start to become excited if/when our triode cell produces a persistent result >= 1.05. If it gets to 1.10, and my resistor calibration cell still reads ~1.00, I will probably do something rash like announce that EarthTech has finally observed the CF excess heat effect! Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 00:23:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA09827; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 19:07:21 +1000 Message-Id: <199706220907.TAA30606 main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Gates and Packer, Joint Venture Resent-Message-ID: <"tOFVR2.0.TP2.I1Dhp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8615 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:57 AM 6/22/97 +0000, you wrote: > Rick: > >Seems that Australia's "media magnate" and richest man, Kerry Packer >worth $3.0 Billion U.S. and Bill Gates worth #30.0 Billion are embarking >on a joint venture. Even though you say Murdock is "Richer Than God" >it looks like Packer is richer yet. :-) > >Article on www.cnn.com (Sci-Tech.) > >Regards, Frederick > > >No I afraid Murdock has access to grater wealth through his bankers Although Kerry Packer and Family are one of the Richest Australian Citizens and has a large media empire here in Australia although I believe no connections overseas as Murdock has through out the world. Geoff http:/www2.murray.net.au/users/egel From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 07:08:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA10838; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 07:07:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 07:07:25 -0700 Message-ID: <33AD30BA.C97D31CF microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:33:38 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: SMOT Mk 2 Adjustments X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vGAJe2.0.Ff2.S6Jhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8616 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I have added a section on adjusting SMOT Mk 2 ramps to my site. The adjustment procedure is quite different to the SMOT Mk 1 ramps. I have also included some QField sims of the SMOT Mk 2 fields. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 07:49:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA21371; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 07:46:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 07:46:15 -0700 From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 10:45:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970622104511_101844432 emout03.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Invitation only MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aMcAY.0.ZD5.ogJhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8617 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: 2. SPACED OUT: "BREAKTHROUGH PROPULSION PHYSICS WORKSHOP." If the laws of physics aren't working for you, change 'em. The NASA Lewis Research Center in Ohio is sponsoring a workshop in August "to begin the rigorous search for the propulsion breakthroughs that could revolutionize space flight and enable human voyages to other star systems." Specifically, discoveries are sought that: (1) eliminate the need for propellant; (2) attain maximum speed through the modification of spacetime; (3) produce unlimited energy on­board. Thirteen invited speakers will explain such revolutionary concepts as superluminal velocities, gravity shields, warp drives, and extracting energy from the vacuum. Regards, Hamdi Ucar ................................. This conference is invitation only. I have been invited. I know what to do. My group held a meeting on Friday. We formulated an action plan on the technologies we want to support. One of them is, of course, Yury's. Another is mine. I been advised to keep quite on my technology until the proper patent protection has been obtained. I plan to produce electricity directy. Frank Znidarsic From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 08:27:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA10575; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 08:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 08:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33ACE9A1.2669F658 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 13:00:17 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: SMOT Mk 2 Adjustments X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <33AD30BA.C97D31CF microtronics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vLtZ81.0.6b2.-FKhp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8618 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have added a section on adjusting SMOT Mk 2 ramps to my site. The > adjustment procedure is quite different to the SMOT Mk 1 ramps. > > I have also included some QField sims of the SMOT Mk 2 fields. > Hi Greg, I could not locate them, where they are ? Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 15:31:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA04463; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 15:28:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 15:28:32 -0700 Message-Id: <33AD78B4.5B82031B verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:10:44 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Another face X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wqXkP3.0.W41.-RQhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8619 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, According the face recognition campaign on remote locations take a look to our very SMOT face at http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/smot2adj.html, and make the adjustments quick! When the rollaway is achieved the magnetic face will smile! Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 15:36:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA18123; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 15:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 15:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:08:20 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Right is Right? Rotary smot'rs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"82p0F1.0.sQ4.eSQhp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8620 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, Recently noted that a few home pages and individual ideas trying to 'help' on future designs of the RMOD have some diagrams going 'left' counter-clock-wise and some 'right' or clockwise?!! Wouldn't WE all HELP ourselves and confussion in future correspondence if we 'settled' on a constant diagram display (or maybe its just my backward think split brain here).. --------------- I like to suggest All smot diagrams (shoot the ball) bottom to TOP. ramps Left to RIGHT (exiting) or RMODS be shown/drawn in a CLOCK-WISE rotating motion. Thoughts.. seems trival I know, but right is right? se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 15:37:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA18561; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 15:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 15:31:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: hheffner corecom.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1345108407==_============" Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 13:14:49 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Angel on Europa Resent-Message-ID: <"jIZpD.0.XX4.KUQhp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8621 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --============_-1345108407==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The attached GIF is a picture of the "Agel on Europa" cropped out of the lower right hand corner of: <"http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/europa/PIA00588_full.jpg">. To look at a photo of Europa which appears to be on a similar scale, beside a same scale photo of San Francisco, i.e. scale 34 x 42 Km, resolution 54 km, altitude 5,344 km, see: . The original cropped segmet of JPG was 36 x 54 pixels. At 54 m per pixel that makes the image about 2 x 3 km, or about 1.2 x 1.8 mi. Took some really big kids to make that image in the ice! 8^) Maybe it's a Europan version of a crop circle hoax. 8^) The angel is looking up and to the left. The face and halo are easier to see in the original JPG in my opinion. Don't feel bad if you can't see it. Having seven year old reading glasses like mine helps a lot. --============_-1345108407==_============ Content-Type: image/gif; name="Angel.GIF" ; x-mac-type="47494666" ; x-mac-creator="474B4F4E" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Angel.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhJAA2APcAAP////7+/v39/fz8/Pv7+/r6+vn5+fj4+Pf39/b29vX19fT09PPz 8/Ly8vHx8fDw8O/v7+7u7u3t7ezs7Ovr6+rq6unp6ejo6Ofn5+bm5uXl5eTk5OPj4+Li 4uHh4eDg4N/f397e3t3d3dzc3Nvb29ra2tnZ2djY2NfX19bW1tXV1dTU1NPT09LS0tHR 0dDQ0M/Pz87Ozs3NzczMzMvLy8rKysnJycjIyMfHx8bGxsXFxcTExMPDw8LCwsHBwcDA wL+/v76+vr29vby8vLu7u7q6urm5ubi4uLe3t7a2trW1tbS0tLOzs7KysrGxsbCwsK+v r66urq2traysrKurq6qqqqmpqaioqKenp6ampqWlpaSkpKOjo6KioqGhoaCgoJ+fn56e np2dnZycnJubm5qampmZmZiYmJeXl5aWlpWVlZSUlJOTk5KSkpGRkZCQkI+Pj46Ojo2N jYyMjIuLi4qKiomJiYiIiIeHh4aGhoWFhYSEhIODg4KCgoGBgYCAgH9/f35+fn19fXx8 fHt7e3p6enl5eXh4eHd3d3Z2dnV1dXR0dHNzc3JycnFxcXBwcG9vb25ubm1tbWxsbGtr a2pqamlpaWhoaGdnZ2ZmZmVlZWRkZGNjY2JiYmFhYWBgYF9fX15eXl1dXVxcXFtbW1pa WllZWVhYWFdXV1ZWVlVVVVRUVFNTU1JSUlFRUVBQUE9PT05OTk1NTUxMTEtLS0pKSklJ SUhISEdHR0ZGRkVFRURERENDQ0JCQkFBQUBAQD8/Pz4+Pj09PTw8PDs7Ozo6Ojk5OTg4 ODc3NzY2NjU1NTQ0NDMzMzIyMjExMTAwMC8vLy4uLi0tLSwsLCsrKyoqKikpKSgoKCcn JyYmJiUlJSQkJCMjIyIiIiEhISAgIB8fHx4eHh0dHRwcHBsbGxoaGhkZGRgYGBcXFxYW FhUVFRQUFBMTExISEhERERAQEA8PDw4ODg0NDQwMDAsLCwoKCgkJCQgICAcHBwYGBgUF BQQEBAMDAwICAgEBAQAAACwAAAAAJAA2AAcI/wBlvCqSQtOoSVh89BiEiYylSmj2PPpF KlEjVYsuIUJUahQqPV0K4WG1zM8eI2ZIeQJC4sgiSFL00PnzB1apP4UQTXI1qtCkT5oa gfI0SQ8YSOFMTUFDqhQLDzsgeTrDZg4UNa5EhUKzKRYrUYgYJQLVClUlT6RUIeITSlKZ VKRGYBgha5mYKZqQCGE0S9MjPaFSqTL1KBQhRZ9oXeL06NUyY2r2iKqUgoCKXdY0RSkU pgSWW5BKqYk0ChOnVaNKYfqDRk+iWJk8NZs35pEcFABSGNMGLcohRyhUFPIkKVUUTK4+ eTq1nJShN1aocLr1qhi3K25wx3CFLVoiLZOkrP9wMglQqVd2Ik0qZKoWqVWiHpVys8PO rFbcqm1ZcYAHJGbbGMLEImOYwAIceWBiCSWlZGJIHbYEY4kpp0hyyyBW2IFcOLqgAUEI pgjDixhNIPIHETZUMYkkkixiliJ4iOIVILQ4ksYszKwBBRzAfLOHHhqQMswiaCjRxSJR DFEFHpQoAkknlyjiyCSJ7IJLHb1UAoYcxoyCBxipUIOGH5X0gokYKMihCBZGNEHGI5hQ 8mQngRxiSSOTZFKIL6nksUQsvGRCyC2oaEGHNJZsEQUamSyRRBdoxEFJJJpI4gkqmDBS RiJXjMYLLpJIUQkqg4hyjB5ovDGLHHgoIogVHlz/wUYgiWjCiCaaoBJKK5YkgYUQXNRh SiyStNHIKGFYiMYgbtQyCCSWVOGBFGb4sUgknMh4yiacLKLHHDYE8UQVaWjiCSadyBIH KbGcMYgWu4BSxhBSJIEGIZRg4oknt/iyymFbSNFIEkTUAMQOfJRCiyqkILLMK36E8cQs WDSxww92+EFIJqr4okotqA2ChhRIvFHGEyqk4IMYkbSSCiB+KGPJKD984QYUPByRxh2H cEtLLrO4UsonhEzxhBFMpLgCDUXcUEkqlHyyiTCafIJDHkm48EQfG59Say/A+NJHJXAI wkYeTLzQgRM34MBFDo18UgkjneRCCiZCoKHDDmtc/9IIJ6pg8oktw7wSxh9R6FEJIkDQ 4AITQgRBxg+JYJJJI62YoooeVeihBBlvOOIJJ5CssoopuywyhxpesAHRDmXgfAQVVBQx CCifnJKlLlmIcYkWbbjhySyoGCIK8asEQojNY7ARxRN6OIHDFVg8IYQbr5iiSy2b9LIo JW/g0UgulEgCySmuwIKJJHmQMcYXXHShBRdSnLEGEFjw4EUsqujiySqPyAIdGKGITmxC FLO6hC9K4YlCgC8PUtDCFsxwhSgEwhBQ2AEVgsCGULhCGJdoRe/44IhL5OIPbYADJyoh jE/4wQ6BmEMjmEAFJHSBC21oxRsuUIUhLOE3sJgGKP9EoQQ12GERefiEI66QCEuQIRay kIQZ4JCGMTBBC1QgwhgKkYsrwIAIRtACIjBxDFxk4hFRMAQnOCGJTNSBDaqIBBA24YtO 0KEMWvjCFgKmhDSEQhM/uIEUyKAFQpziGa0QxB0nQYqDgEIQj2iFHmgACltwIhFq4MIX yLCEL1CBD7ygwwt+MAU1YIEQr3AGLQYxBj1oopF9EAUnPmEIMkxBFa6AxCPiEIYtqGEJ scOELrSwgyhMgQtjuMQsgPELS5QhEI+AxCTWUBhQjIEKeCiFLRRRiDeEAQt0MCUTYtEJ JDAhDJrEwyuCMYtaXIJnhOAaFwrBilRwgQeLgEUsEgH/iD7IgQx02AMX1kCLPeiACfI7 AxefMYtSNIISlVDEIBRhhUi8wok4qAQuCPMHRPjTDXvIQycU4QUeTGELVEhDJX7RDFiM omeXeMQjKOEFT1yiDDe7FCs4kQc+wKEObSAEJHQRBSUoAQ1pwAIbWrEMYZgCFYI4BCIM 4QhJLIEUhADDFbIgiclwwg9qoMogHEGFTyRhCz/w5RnKIIxjDEMVYchIHwbBiEo8YRCd QIMYvkALU0SiEXe4gxy2pAg/eMIIUDgqHN6QCGYgQxenaIOCwoAHSGjiCWdQRCCUIAhb eIIPeWCDHr5Eh0m8ghAyEAIWyIAGQazCGbtQxSYEQQpI/7BBEaHwhBagMIY9IGEUp1DE G+SwszqAoQ6USAYZSLCyK4DBE75YBitMMYlQqIIRg7AEJxgBBx084Qp3QAUpBLGHOKRh ENHLAiCGMYZw6REOrkgGM1bhikzswhSJ0MMf+FAHPlxMDMNxRCICgYbaGGIIRKCDKODQ hB88YQ2McAUyhNHQUMQiEnuQwxzs8IdFNAEKkcDDHNygCD20oQyD+AMUqFAHQ7QhCUNg Ah5GYQtesGIXhmQEHthQhzw4kBRWOIQpCFGDMwTCx3RgQxrE4AY5/AEMOIBCFmqyjL4M Iw06dMMZ3GCHQ0ziEoU4RSMysQYdhCEQjqiDFPyQ5DxYQv8KM4gJJnIxDVFcohZncIQW tHAGPJyBD4VwwyZSZwhGQOEIf2iEIWwGQ58qgQhpcAQqcvGLVSiCFXUohR2ikAUuREEM bEADLXAhsk+IAWOHUMQY0LCITvgpCVz4gydw0YtXkCIPxULFJcJgBStUwQtZCMQtONEI NHCiCz0YgyD6wAU7iBcORhAgIkDxC2KwwhJ1kEMWzuJiKYChDWZ4hCoI8QlAWOIKNGDC IfTgBUKsohFs0IIcEgEJUACjGLL9UhbW3YhATGEMceADJkwxtkEgQg1DAAIiAvEGQ7wT D3ioVSdK0YteiEIUaxhDGQSxBDTcgRB/iMMfOmEKQywCEG7/8MMXhkCHPARiEI8IRCQs kYlQlEIVt5jFJjBxhT+IgQ9JgEIZRiGKVFvCE5Xwixb8gAYmZMEMiSAEJjRhCviIwhSp iEUrNpGIJ4DCCnhQQ+8MYYqrJyIToMgEJ3iMyTd8oQ5jrEQsNFEKTaTCFqjgwyy2QIZS OMEPZuhCGzbhila44hBnl5Ig8GAJRQCCDHhwxCckAQpJbIISWJfEIUgRBTik4gl5cMMa FFGLZIg3EX54RB/8gAk+dKITk8ADIRZBiUI0YqaWaMUoBEEUJhjCFU54QxzkAIpnPCMY d3iEIQixBzx4ghAr0kSeCAEIOwiCEY2YdSkC4Yo/SMETslgCbhnYwAZOTGMZzuBqJPgw CNZDghCGwIQoWLEIQdihD3zQQydgkYlAeGIMXaAKsoAEYYBUjdAM0pALXiAJqpcIhyAJ l/AHijAJ4KcJmGAIe1AGZJAJlLAHfjAHUQAGpNAKRUAGZkAHiuAMLQUQUwICADs= --============_-1345108407==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Regards, Horace Heffner --============_-1345108407==_============-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 17:06:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA10984; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:04:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:04:30 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 13:02:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199706222002.AA26086 lafn.org> From: ad368 lafn.org (Jim Day) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Wilkins device Reply-To: ad368 lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: <"yN8Wm.0.Dh2.CsRhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8622 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gnorts, Could the first SMOT have been invented in 1648 by the Bishop of Chester? If so, it would in no way detract from Greg Watson's brilliant accomplishment. See Professor Hibbert's Perpetual Motion web page at http://www.chem.unsw.edu.au/staff/hibbert/perpetual/ According to Professor Hibbert, the Bishop of Chester (Bishop Wilkins) described a device in which a steel ball ascended a ramp under the influence of a lodestone. On reaching the top of the ramp the ball fell through a hole, returned to the bottom of the ramp, and the cycle repeated. Professor Hibbert doesn't say whether Bishop Wilkins actually constructed such a device, but Hibbert does call it "the first executive desk toy." If everyone already knows about the Wilkins device, I apologize for mentioning it again. Jim Day (ad368 lafn.org) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 17:18:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA20631; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:17:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:17:01 -0700 From: ehammond pacbell.net Message-ID: <33AD7FB7.7A49 pacbell.net> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 12:40:39 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-PBME (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Poop-Poopa-doop References: <19970621164114.AAA24711 LOCALNAME> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CvMI61.0.325.y1Shp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8623 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Send some examples to the nearest university as your PHD feces. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 17:32:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA28151; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:31:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:31:19 -0700 From: ehammond pacbell.net Message-ID: <33AD7F30.D79 pacbell.net> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 12:38:24 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-PBME (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: RE : chemo-astro-connection References: <199706211257.OAA24068 imaginet.fr> <33ABFDA6.6B22@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Qrx6a3.0.ht6.KFShp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8624 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am familiar with several individuals who use water to capture the influences of stars and planets. SMOT researchers should expose water now around the time of the full moon to moon light (at least 5 liters) and create 'moon water' . Also and more important expose the magnets to full moon light to create a lunar charge. Place a glass bowl full of moon water next to the device/setup hoped to be working, and then place a copper or silver or gold sheet in the moon water with a wire of silver or copper running to the experiment and attached to the base. Silver would work best although copper would be adequate. This should stablize the conditions over the next month. Fill the bowl with full moon water as it evaporates. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 17:57:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA12404; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 08:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706221552.IAA03937 norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: SMOT Mk 2 Adjustments Resent-Message-ID: <"GMxzx3.0.k13.kYShp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8625 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hamdi Ucar wrote: >Greg Watson wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> I have added a section on adjusting SMOT Mk 2 ramps to my site. The >> adjustment procedure is quite different to the SMOT Mk 1 ramps. >> >> I have also included some QField sims of the SMOT Mk 2 fields. >> > >Hi Greg, > >I could not locate them, where they are ? > Hi Hamdi, The location is: Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/smot2adj.html Glad to hear your hand is getting better. Regards, Michael From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 18:57:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA01889; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 18:55:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 18:55:57 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970622185544.00a06d20 esa.lanl.gov> X-Sender: claytor_t_n esa.lanl.gov X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 18:55:44 -0600 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Thomas N. Claytor" Subject: Re: Transmutation evidence Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5BQY3.0.RT.jUThp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8626 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry, The welcome mat is out, you have an open invitation to visit the lab and see and discuss the plasma experiment or the Reifenschweiler experiment. Just give me some notice so I won't be on travel. Tom. At 04:43 PM 6/20/97 -0700, you wrote: >Terry Blanton wrote: >> > >> (taking out map). . . Hey! Pomona is only one inch east of >> downtown LA! >> >> I bet Gene Mallove could set you up with Dr. Bush, Barry. >> > >Such a meeting/collaboration has in fact been in the >"coming soon" stage of negotiations for 9 months now---but it has >never actually come. If Gene/Jed would put in a good word, maybe >it would speed up the process. I have not been beating down >their door, since I don't want to antagonize or frighten them, >but I have asked several times to see/work with their device, >and they seem agreeable but it never actually comes to pass. >Probably a good time for me to revisit the issue with more >forcefulness. > >-- >Barry Merriman >Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program >Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math >email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry > > http://www.nde.lanl.gov/staff/claytor/claytor.htm Thomas N. Claytor Claytor_t_n lanl.gov Los Alamos National Laboratory ESA-MT, MS C914 Los Alamos NM, 87545 505-667-6216 voice 505-665-7176 fax From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 19:24:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA09485; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 19:23:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 19:23:07 -0700 Message-Id: <33ADCEC9.9074A91 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 05:18:01 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Angel on Europa X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aMK8w.0.7K2.BuThp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8627 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Horace, Your angel is wonderful, almost complete. If you post it to media, they will enhance and rebuild the image so that your angel will look like not less than Michelangelo sculptures. I am wondering the response of Arthur C. Clarke for this image and for the iceworm idea of Rick Monteverde. For the original subject, the top and bottom traces which A.C.Clarke is interested indeed, have not the same appearances of the other tracks. But they are not extraordinary than your angel. Regards, Hamdi From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 20:00:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA07380; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 19:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 19:57:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: ad368 lafn.org (Jim Day) (by way of "Frederick J. Sparber" ) Subject: Wilkins device Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 00:35:02 +0000 Message-ID: <19970623003459.AAA15548 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"7T3kd.0.4p1.gOUhp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8628 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gnorts, Could the first SMOT have been invented in 1648 by the Bishop of Chester? If so, it would in no way detract from Greg Watson's brilliant accomplishment. Don't see why not. The clergy are just as likely to be playing with their magnets, ramps, and balls as "lay people." See Professor Hibbert's Perpetual Motion web page at http://www.chem.unsw.edu.au/staff/hibbert/perpetual/ Jim Day (ad368 lafn.org) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 20:12:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA18559; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 20:11:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 20:11:48 -0700 Message-ID: <33ADE9A1.459A interlaced.net> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:12:33 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Angel on Europa References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Y7vg1.0.vX4.pbUhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8629 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > The attached GIF is a picture of the "Agel on Europa" Nice angel, Horace! Makes you wonder how many "spitting images" of Abe Lincoln exist in the universe - even from one viewing point ???? Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 20:35:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA22690; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 20:34:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 20:34:09 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970623033408.006641e8 sparc1> X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:34:08 +0900 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Elliot Kennel Subject: Pd SIMS Resent-Message-ID: <"1om8x3.0.RY5.mwUhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8630 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed asked: >>Do you use the "Type A" recommended by Martin? << We are using JM Type A, Batch AR 8023. We also have other types of JM palladium as well. As you probably also know, for the past few years our lab has operated the Pons-Fleischmann Icarus 2 boiling calorimetry cells, so we have tried to follow these experiments as closely as possible. >>Storms got good results with Tanaka palladium, but he had to winnow one good cathode out of dozen.<< That same generalization holds true for just about all palladium, which is why Storms developed his screening test in the first place. There is no single manufacturer that has consistently churned out "fusion grade" palladium reproducibly. As regards to Storms' efforts, there remains a persistent mystery in that we can use the same materials and perform the same materials treatments and get different results and we don't know why. Of course, the simplest way to get around this problem is to simply obtain palladium directly from Storms, which I'm doing via my company in America (not in as large a quantity as you or I would like, but it's a start). I hope that other experimenters will do the same, as Storms is very deserving of support. NHE Lab has also tried different protocols from other researchers who have reported excess heat. In the meantime, Storms has suggested that there may be a systematic flaw in our annealling process. So we are going to correct that and send him some new samples and see if that corrects the problem. So you are correct that we have not met Storms' criteria, but it is not because we are ignorant of it. >>Glad to hear, but I am sure they don't get a $4950 discount! Maybe you are being overcharged.<< Actually, that's about the size of it. And you're right that the same measurements cost us more than they would in the US, probably because we are indirectly subsidizing the univerisities. But the point is that there no reason that I know of to disparage Mizuno's raw data or, specifically to imply that it is second rate because of the cost. >>You are incorrect. All of Mizuno's CF experiments are crammed into his office.<< But Jed, Lipson and I are working with Mizuno at Hokkaido University. The neutron measurment experiments are not done in his office, but in the accelerator laboratory. We do have to share the facility with others, but there is no problem with access to outstanding facilities. >>Isotope separation is ruled out because the isotopes of Cu and other elements were not in the cell in the first place. They can't separate out if they ain't in there in the first place. Right?<< You might be right, but LiOD is kind of like the stuff you use to flush your car's radiator with, so it's very hard for me to be convinced that contamination can not occur, especially since there is no counter example (i.e., I'm not aware that anyone has used an electrode of some other metal and shown that no mass transport occurs). In the case of many experiments reported to date, all the material are electropositive metal ions capable of electrolytic mass transport to the cathode. Mizuno's experiment is different because he also claims the observation of isotopically shifted inert gas in the cathode, which seemingly could not be transported by electrolysis. This is another reason why I am especially interested in those results. But anyway, my view is that it is premature to rule out other possible explanations of the effect without experimentation. >> Who are your trying to kid? Did you hear what Martin Fleischmann and McKubre said about the NHE?!?<< I prefer to ignore second and third hand criticism and only deal with comments from the persons themselves. These persons can speak for themselves. I have appreciated your technical comments, but not your penchant for generating gossip. Best regards, Elliot From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 20:53:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA14089; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 20:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 20:47:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199706220516.AAA26429 natasha.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:44:55 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Ragland triode update Resent-Message-ID: <"1IVpR.0.2S3.07Vhp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8631 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott - > Judging by the performance of this system to date, > I will start to become excited if/when our triode > cell produces a persistent result >= 1.05. If it gets > to 1.10, and my resistor calibration cell still > reads ~1.00, I will probably do something rash > like announce that EarthTech has finally observed > the CF excess heat effect! We're all hoping you get to announce that soon. Thanks, - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 22 21:00:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA26852; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 20:59:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 20:59:11 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 22:59:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706230359.WAA03639 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Type A Pd Resent-Message-ID: <"Wn4na1.0.QZ6.EIVhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8632 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:34 PM 6/23/97 +0900, Elliot Kennel wrote: >We are using JM Type A, Batch AR 8023. Elliot, I have inquired directly about this "Type A Pd" and the technical dept at Alfa (JM) here in the US reports that they can find no record of anything by that name. What is Type A Pd? How is it different from the Puratronic or Premion Pd that JM-ALfa has in their catalog? Who do you contact at JM to purchase Type A Pd? Thanks. Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 01:07:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA17483; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:58:55 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Wilkins device Resent-Message-ID: <"ny2Gd1.0.4H4.rqYhp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8633 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 1:02 PM 6/22/97, Jim Day wrote: [snip] >According to Professor Hibbert, the Bishop of Chester >(Bishop Wilkins) described a device in which a steel >ball ascended a ramp under the influence of a lodestone. [snip] > >Jim Day (ad368 lafn.org) If the above is true it sounds like the end of worries about the Hartman Patent. We're in public domain territory at last. Now, if the things could just close the loop! Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 01:26:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA08182; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:23:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:23:24 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33AD7F30.D79 pacbell.net> References: <199706211257.OAA24068 imaginet.fr> <33ABFDA6.6B22 keelynet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:50:41 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: RE : chemo-astro-connection Resent-Message-ID: <"xfJGk1.0.N_1.u9Zhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8636 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ehammond pacbell.net wrote: > Place a glass bowl full of moon water next to the > device/setup hoped to be working, and then place a > copper or silver or gold sheet in the moon water > with a wire of silver or copper running to the > experiment [...] At some point I thought hey, I bet these things would work better if I got a bunch of steel pipe bindled together, hooked it to one end of the SMOT, and hooked the other end of the SMOT to a wire running to an electrode lying in a clear running natural stream. But I don't want to get busted by the National Weather Service's secret enforcement division. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 01:26:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA08105; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:23:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:23:17 -0700 X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33ADCEC9.9074A91 verisoft.com.tr> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:40:18 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Angel on Europa Resent-Message-ID: <"Cl7O7.0.E-1.p9Zhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8635 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hamdi wrote: > I am wondering the response of Arthur C. Clarke > for this image and for the iceworm idea of Rick > Monteverde. In case I gave anyone the wrong impression, I have to say I was just going for a little humor there. This Europa photo has so much neat stuff in it though, it's mind boggling. I can't believe Hoaglund hasn't come out and said all kinds of things about it. Everywhere I look I see freeways, temples, cities, airports, faces, angels, anglers, angles, etc., etc. It's got almost as much stuff in it as the San Francisco pictures used for comparison. Seriously, there is a perfectly formed rectangle near the lower center of the image, and it looks as 'good' as the stuff on Mars. In other words, it was disappointing for two reasons. I think all that stuff there is natural, so first it looks to me like it tends to degrade the possibility that that stuff on Mars is anything, and second, it makes me wonder about ACC. That line he talks about is like so many others in the photo. And what's so weird about a crack or fissure going around an area that has been remelted and frozen over again by some sort of impact or upwelling? Wouldn't you think the material in those areas would have diffrent properties, perhaps being stronger or thicker than the surrounding sheet? Put a dab of melted chocolate on a graham cracker and let it cool. Now break the craker. Runs around the glob of chocolate, doesn't it. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 01:35:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA07894; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:23:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:23:09 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Wilkins device Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:56:25 +0000 Message-ID: <19970623015622.AAA21861 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"ATZiB3.0.2x1.h9Zhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8634 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jim Day wrote: >Could the first SMOT have been invented in 1648 by >the Bishop of Chester? If so, it would in no way >detract from Greg Watson's brilliant accomplishment. > > >See Professor Hibbert's Perpetual Motion web page at > >http://www.chem.unsw.edu.au/staff/hibbert/perpetual/ > It would be interesting to figure the type of iron that the ball was made of. Prior to the 1870 invention of the Bessemer Process, the irons were cast iron and wrought iron. The pig iron obtained from the furnace contained several percent carbon, silicon, phosphorus,manganese,and sulphur). Cast iron was made by remelting and recooling pig iron, and if cooled rapidly forms Fe3C, which could have some interesting magnetic-magnetocaloric properties. Wrought iron was made by melting pig iron with an excess of iron oxide which oxidized most of the pig iron impurities. The carbon and sulphur come off as CO2 and SO2 gases, the silicon and phosphorus react with the iron and manganese oxides forming a slag, some of which floats to the top of the melt and the rest is removed by hammering or rolling. The wrought iron thus obtained, contains less than 0.2% carbon and would be quite different from the steel ball-bearings used in the SMOT experiments. Most of the piston rings used in engines, and compressors, etc., are of cast iron. Could make a difference. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 06:04:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA00134; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 06:03:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 06:03:01 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970623130131.008e33a4 freeway.net> X-Sender: estrojny freeway.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:01:31 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Edwin Strojny Subject: Re: Type A Pd Resent-Message-ID: <"Y5Y_11.0.y1.4Gdhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8639 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:59 PM 6/22/97 -0500, Scott Little wrote: > >What is Type A Pd? How is it different from the Puratronic or Premion Pd >that JM-ALfa has in their catalog? Who do you contact at JM to purchase >Type A Pd? > >Thanks. > >Scott Little >EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 >512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) >little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little > Also, has anyone analyzed type A for the other elements that are present and compared this with the analysis of Pd that does not give excess heat? Ed Strojny From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 07:49:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA19550; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 07:44:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 07:44:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 06:42:31 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Angel on Europa Resent-Message-ID: <"_AwGU2.0.On4.Flehp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8640 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 5:40 PM 6/22/97, Rick Monteverde wrote: [snip] > >This Europa photo has so much neat stuff in it though, it's mind boggling. >I can't believe Hoaglund hasn't come out and said all kinds of things about >it. Everywhere I look I see freeways, temples, cities, airports, faces, >angels, anglers, angles, etc., etc. It's got almost as much stuff in it as >the San Francisco pictures used for comparison. Seriously, there is a >perfectly formed rectangle near the lower center of the image, and it >looks as 'good' as the stuff on Mars. In other words, it was disappointing >for two reasons. I think all that stuff there is natural, so first it looks >to me like it tends to degrade the possibility that that stuff on Mars is >anything, and second, it makes me wonder about ACC. That line he talks >about is like so many others in the photo. > [snip] > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI All so true. However, it just screems "tabloid," doesn't it? I think public awareness of and interest in space exploration is a good thing. Maybe the Angel on Europa will help. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 04:57:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA25492; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 04:55:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 04:55:37 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: shorty greatlakes.net From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Particles and The Gravitational Constant, "Big G". Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:54:55 +0000 Message-ID: <19970623115452.AAA21389 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"e85hL1.0.9E6.uGchp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8638 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The gravitational constant G; 6.67E-11 can be factored out to the Ampere's Law force constant; 1.0E-7 * (0.02583)^2. It is believed that the 0.02583 value is the magnetostatic value of ampere-meters/kilogram for the force between masses at a separation distance (r). The product of 0.02583 times the mass of the electron, = 0.02583 * 9.1E-31 kg = 2.35E-32 ampere-meters as opposed to the value calculated from the internal current, i = q*f of 20 amperes (q is the charge of the electron and f is it's "frequency", 1.23E20 hertz) times the electron "diameter" (2*2.81E-15) meters. This calculated value for any particle is constant at 3.5E-13 ampere-meters. The relativistic time-frequency dilation "gamma factor" due to the very near speed-of-light wave velocity in the particle is taken as 2.35E-32/3.5E-32 = 6.71E-20. In other words, what would be an internal current i of 20 amperes in the particle in it's reference frame appears as a current of 6.71E-20*20 = 1.3428E-18 amperes to an observer in an external reference frame. Thus the apparent weak field attributed to gravitation. >From this it seems that gravitation can be treated as a magnetostatic property; Force, F = 1.0E-7 * m1m2/r^2 (newtons) where m1 and m2 are the magnetic pole strengths of the particles in time-dilated ampere-meters. This is the same as the "traditional" gravitational force equation; F = 6.67E-11*M1M2/r^2 (newtons) for the force between masses M1 and M2. Gravity-Antigravity. Although all of the sub-atomic particles of a mass, like the Earth, exhibit a weak magnetostatic force due to relativistic time dilation, their collective force is enormous. If a way is found to tap into or "synchronize" with this relativistic magnetic field an "antigravity" force Might be achievable. As a first cut, since "conventional" magnetic forces cannot couple to the Earth's time dilated (gravitational) magnetic field it may be possible to synthesize a field that will interact. To simulate a charge moving along a transmission line at selected velocities one might consider "flat transmission line" technology where plane conductors separated by a suitable dielectric can be used to channel pulses along the flat lines terminated with a suitable resistance that will dissipate the pulse energy and prevent reflections or standing waves. The characteristic impedance of such a line is determined by: Zo = (spacing/width)*(u/e)^1/2 (ohms), where u is the permeability or inductance of the line and e is the permittivity or capacitance. With the right line lengths,pulse polarity and rate, and layout etc., one may be able to repel against a gravitational field with such an "engine" and spend the 61 million joules/kilogram necessary to achieve escape velocity from the Earth. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 08:23:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA24600; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:21:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:21:03 -0700 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:20:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706231520.KAA12001 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: another triode update Resent-Message-ID: <"uOXd02.0.I06.UHfhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8641 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Our Ragland triode run #2 is in hour 143 now (6 days). It has been running at 500/700 mA/cm^2 with 16sec/side now for about 40 hours. This AM's 2-hour average Pout/Pin ratio: 0.999 Cumulative Eout/Ein for the entire run: 1.0017 i.e. nothing significant happening yet. We just raised the cooling water set point from 30C to 40C. This should take the electrolyte temp up to about 55C which hopefully will stimulate the effect. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 09:12:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA03407; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:09:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:09:33 -0700 From: Schaffer gav.gat.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970622185544.00a06d20 esa.lanl.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:12:05 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Transmutation evidence Resent-Message-ID: <"OMqmg2.0.5r.x-fhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8642 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Claytor wrote: > >The welcome mat is out, you have an open invitation to visit the lab and >see and discuss the plasma experiment or the Reifenschweiler experiment. >Just give me some notice so I won't be on travel. Tom, does this mean that you or someone else at LANL is doing the Reifenschweiler experiment? Michael J. Schaffer General Atomics, PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA Tel: 619-455-2841 Fax: 619-455-4156 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 10:26:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA16373; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:21:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:21:42 -0700 Message-ID: <33AEB0CE.528A interlaced.net> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:22:22 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Particles and The Gravitational Constant, "Big G". References: <19970623115452.AAA21389 LOCALNAME> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8sz92.0.l_3.a2hhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8643 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick J. Sparber wrote: > > With the right line lengths,pulse polarity and rate, and layout etc., > one may be able to repel against a gravitational field with such an > "engine" and spend the 61 million joules/kilogram necessary to achieve > escape velocity from the Earth. > OK, Frederick, now, get thee to NASA-Lewis post haste! Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 12:27:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA07584; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:25:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:25:05 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970623132146.00b4a3c0 esa.lanl.gov> X-Sender: claytor_t_n esa.lanl.gov X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:21:46 -0600 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Thomas N. Claytor" Subject: Re: Transmutation evidence Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ISrQw.0.Ms1.Gsihp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8644 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'm not personally running the Reifenschweiler experiment but it is located a few meters from our plasma experiment and is being run by one of Tuggle's grad students. It's not in operation at the current time because of a problem with one of the x ray detectors. Once it goes hot then it won't be available to view. At 09:12 AM 6/23/97 -0800, you wrote: >Tom Claytor wrote: >> >>The welcome mat is out, you have an open invitation to visit the lab and >>see and discuss the plasma experiment or the Reifenschweiler experiment. >>Just give me some notice so I won't be on travel. > >Tom, does this mean that you or someone else at LANL is doing the >Reifenschweiler experiment? > >Michael J. Schaffer >General Atomics, PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA >Tel: 619-455-2841 Fax: 619-455-4156 > > > http://www.nde.lanl.gov/staff/claytor/claytor.htm Thomas N. Claytor Claytor_t_n lanl.gov Los Alamos National Laboratory ESA-MT, MS C914 Los Alamos NM, 87545 505-667-6216 voice 505-665-7176 fax From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 13:19:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA21337; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:17:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:17:14 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 16:16:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970623161626_-461782215 emout01.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: About RMOD V3.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"MUo1_3.0.HD5.8djhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8645 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, You will find in my web server, my new approach of the RMOD V3.0 device at : http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/rmodmk3.htm The RMOD V3.0 uses conversion of the magnetic energy of a magnet to kinetic energy with the gravitational field for regauging. The regauging effect is possible with this device and we should be able to build an open system for ZPE energy like a water wheel...... The RMOD V3.0 device is based on the work on basic magnetism in 1269 of Pierre de Maricourt, commonly called Petrus Peregrinus. "He owes his surname to the village of Maricourt, in Picardy, and the appellation Peregrinus, or Pilgrim, to his having visited the Holy Land as member of one the crusading expeditions of the time. ...In the course of his work over the new motor, Peregrinus was gradually led to consider the more fascinating problem of perpetual motion itself with the result that he showed, at least diagrammatically, and to his own evident satisfaction, how a wheel might be driven round forever by the power of magnetic attraction." Ref doc. : " The letter of Petrus Peregrinus ' ON THE MAGNET, AD.D. 1269 ', translated by Brother Arnold, M.Sc. Principal of La Salle Institute, Troy with Introductory notice by Brother Potamian, D.Sc, professor of Physics in Manhattan College, New York " Overunity yours Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 13:47:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA29844; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:44:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:44:24 -0700 Message-ID: <33AEEECC.5056 earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:48:01 -0700 From: Rich Murray Reply-To: rmforall earthlink.net Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Bass , vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Who/What is "Rich Murray" References: <199706211800.LAA13246 pahrump.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SPRbT1.0.AI7.c0khp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8646 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Robert Bass, I'm an amateur appreciator of cold fusion research, having a B.S. in physics and history from M.I.T. in 1964, and a M.A. in psychology from Boston U. Graduate School, 1967. I've kept up with much of the research since 1989, subscribed to Vortex-L eskimo.com discussion group (about cold fusion and other new energy research) early in 1996, and attended the Second International Conference on Low Energy Nuclear Reactions in Sept., where Miley's claims were presented with enthusiasm. Upon careful inspection, I found many flaws in Miley's reports, which I posted as a series of "Miley Critiques". So, since I'm not an experimenter, I'm playing a role as a networker, critic, and idea man. Elliot Kennel's work in important in that finally some of Mizuno's recent startling electrochemical transmutation work is being precisely checked, and it seems that confirmation is on the way. So I posted the discussion between Elliot and Jed to publicize the fact that Elliot's efforts existed. I hope the same independent confirmation happens quickly for your remarkable thorium experiments! Rich Murray Room For All 1943 Otowi Drive Santa Fe, NM 87505 505-986-9103 rmforall earthlink.net From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 14:42:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA18471; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:39:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:39:08 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970623174008.00944780 spectre.mitre.org> X-Sender: eachus spectre.mitre.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:40:08 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Robert I. Eachus" Subject: Re: Europa Image -- AC Clarke Request Cc: "vortex-l eskimo.com" In-Reply-To: <33ABFD76.D707E657 verisoft.com.tr> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"p14YY3.0.XW4.ypkhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8647 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:12 PM 6/21/97 +0400, Hamdi Ucar wrote: >I did not notice anything unnatural here. It depends on your definition of unnatural I guess. Once upon a time, unearthly qualified. ;-) However, the crack, ridges, and tracks on Europa seem to fall in three categories. The first look like surface cracks. The second group look like something, let's call it a European wurm, moved across the surface ingesting the loose surface material in front of it, and piling the waste to either side. The interaction with Jupiter probably results in a rain of energy rich molecules on the surface, so this could be the track of something which eats them. (Or if you prefer, an autonomous harvesting machine, but I'll bet on biology.) Finally there are two thin lines on across the top of the frame, one running from the lower left corner to about 1/3 of the way up the right side. These appear to be straighter and narrower than the other traces. Possibilities include a more modern species, etc. But the simplest explantion would be if the worms were subsurface burrowers. The newest tracks would be narrow, the older tracks would have collapsed inward, giving the characteristic of two ridges on either side of a grove. A lot of guessing, what we need is a Europa orbiter that can give us several images of the same area. If the narrow tracks grow slowly longer, we have evidence of life. Hmmmm... Is anyone trying to compare the images from earlier visits and even from the several passes that Galileo is making? Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 15:12:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA28702; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:10:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:10:12 -0700 Message-Id: <33AEB842.9BD94D6C verisoft.com.tr> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:54:10 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Re: Europa Image -- AC Clarke Request X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"c7_3D.0.K07.3Hlhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8648 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robert I. Eachus wrote: > At 08:12 PM 6/21/97 +0400, Hamdi Ucar wrote: >>I did not notice anything unnatural here. > It depends on your definition of unnatural I guess. Once upon a > time, unearthly qualified. ;-) This is my early posting, and I suffered from poor English. Then I noticed the differences of thin lines when I magnified two times the image and corrected my opinion on 6/22/97 "Re: Angel on Europa" and wrote: >> For the original subject, the top and bottom traces which A.C.Clarke is interesting indeed, have not the same appearances of the other tracks. But they are not extraordinary than your angel. << Did you read my arguments to supporting the worm track. (This may be a good humour as Rick is made it and thought it, but worm theory is very good matching with this image. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 18:51:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA20866; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:49:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:49:35 -0700 From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970623211903_-394649712 emout11.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: pheonix UFO Resent-Message-ID: <"csyOw.0.g55.hUohp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8649 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: There's a great article on the alleged Phoenix UFO in the Friday, 20 June, Arizona Republic daily newspaper. It tells of this yahoo Richard Hougland who 'predicted' the media would break this story hours in advance. Apparently, he thinks we're so stupid that we wouldn't notice that his 'prediction' came after the USA Today story broke. It's people like that cause borderline believers to become skeptics and skeptics to become more skeptical. Frank Z From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 19:06:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA29939; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:05:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:05:24 -0700 From: rvanspaa eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Europa Image -- AC Clarke Request Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 01:22:38 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <33af179b.3837757 mail.eisa.net.au> References: <3.0.1.32.19970623174008.00944780@spectre.mitre.org> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970623174008.00944780 spectre.mitre.org> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"agkv11.0.cJ7.Yjohp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8650 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:40:08 -0400, Robert I. Eachus wrote: How about a meteor striking the surface tangentially, and plowing a long furrow with piles of removed material on both sides? Or two plates that rock up and down. The plate moving up scrapes matter off the side wall of the other plate, and deposits it on top it as it passes the edge. (Sorry for being a wet blanket :). Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 19:31:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA06787; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:28:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:28:34 -0700 Message-ID: <33AF1A5F.B1C345ED microtronics.com.au> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:22:47 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: SMOT Mk2 Beta 2 details X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jES-22.0.tf1.G3php" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8652 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I have updated my site with further improvements to the SMOT Mk2 design. I can now get fairly easy rollaways using the config on the site. Raising the magnets helps quite a lot in getting good rollaways, yet has very little detrimental effect on up the ramp performance. With good side to side balancing, the magnets arrays can be raised 1-3mm above the ball centres, improving up the ramp operation AND helping to improve rollaways. I know it sounds crazy, but this seems to be another example of how Ou systems should have reversed operational characteristics. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 19:31:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA07270; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:29:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:29:27 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970624012532.00667098 sparc1> X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:25:32 +0900 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Elliot Kennel Subject: Type A Pd (repost) Resent-Message-ID: <"GKSvM1.0.9n1.04php" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8653 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I forgot to use the subject line for the following message, so I'm reposting it. Sorry. Scott Little asked: >>What is Type A Pd? How is it different from the Puratronic or Premion Pd that JM-ALfa has in their catalog? Who do you contact at JM to purchase Type A Pd?<< I say, old boy, you may need to contact Alfa Johnson Matthey in England (gbcat alfa.com). I don't know what differences may exist between Alfa in the US and UK. At as far as I know the Type A stuff is a grade below Puratronic grade (99.95% pure). But if Martin says to use it, who am I to question? But others say that Type A is no good and you should use only the Puratronic grade, which is 99.99+ pure. There is a school of thought within the community that says that there is some impurity that makes the reaction go, so if it's too pure it's no good. Of course there are others who say that the higher the purity the better. And almost everyone says that recently all the suppliers of palladium are not producing material as good as the material ca. 1990, although the vendors say that the exact same processes are being used and the product is just the same and they have the analyses to prove it. Still, the old gurus wax nostalgic over Engelhard Lot 3, which supposedly produced excellent results, though more recent stuff is supposed to be not nearly as good. Yet positive results have been reported from JM, Engelhard, Goodfellow and Tanaka as well as Russian palladium and I don't know where the Chinese get their stuff. Mizuno says he uses only Tanaka, by the way. So I don't think there is a simple answer that one vendor is clearly bad and one is clearly good. Best regards, Elliot From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 19:31:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA01019; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:15:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:15:04 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:12:14 +1000 Message-Id: <199706240412.OAA08455 main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re:Faces every where Resent-Message-ID: <"IHIxC.0.lF.bsohp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8651 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 01:14 PM 6/22/97 -0800, you wrote: >The attached GIF is a picture of the "Agel on Europa" cropped out of the >lower right hand corner of: > >Geoff Egel Http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 19:31:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA07432; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:29:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:29:46 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970624012047.006653c0 sparc1> X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:20:47 +0900 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Elliot Kennel Cc: little eden.com Resent-Message-ID: <"fpTAh1.0.Sp1.H4php" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8654 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott Little asked: >>What is Type A Pd? How is it different from the Puratronic or Premion Pd that JM-ALfa has in their catalog? Who do you contact at JM to purchase Type A Pd?<< I say, old boy, you may need to contact Alfa Johnson Matthey in England (gbcat alfa.com). I don't know what differences may exist between Alfa in the US and UK. At as far as I know the Type A stuff is a grade below Puratronic grade (99.95% pure). But if Martin says to use it, who am I to question? But others say that Type A is no good and you should use only the Puratronic grade, which is 99.99+ pure. There is a school of thought within the community that says that there is some impurity that makes the reaction go, so if it's too pure it's no good. Of course there are others who say that the higher the purity the better. And almost everyone says that recently all the suppliers of palladium are not producing material as good as the material ca. 1990, although the vendors say that the exact same processes are being used and the product is just the same and they have the analyses to prove it. Still, the old gurus wax nostalgic over Engelhard Lot 3, which supposedly produced excellent results, though more recent stuff is supposed to be not nearly as good. Yet positive results have been reported from JM, Engelhard, Goodfellow and Tanaka as well as Russian palladium and I don't know where the Chinese get their stuff. Mizuno says he uses only Tanaka, by the way. So I don't think there is a simple answer that one vendor is clearly bad and one is clearly good. Best regards, Elliot From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 19:43:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA13244; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:41:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:41:21 -0700 Date: 23 Jun 97 22:37:52 EDT From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re:Faces every where Message-ID: <970624023751_76016.2701_JHC33-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"6P-mD.0.LE3.AFphp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8655 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If you look a couple of inches above the "angel" on Europa, there's a distinct profile of Elvis. That hair style belongs to no other. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 21:47:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA01369; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:44:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:44:35 -0700 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706240443.VAA06049 norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: About RMOD V3.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"kXIqo.0.EL.n2rhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8656 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis How does the unit work or operate for rotation? As per your drawing the magnet is stationary in the center. What is the purpose of the ball? Does it rolls around? Regards, Michael At 04:16 PM 6/23/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi All, > >You will find in my web server, my new approach of the RMOD V3.0 device at : > > http://members.aol.com/overunity3/html/rmodmk3.htm > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 21:55:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA06034; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:53:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:53:19 -0700 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:32:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706240432.XAA25382 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Ragland run #2 ends Resent-Message-ID: <"65OpI.0.BU1.-Arhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8657 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This afternoon at about 6:00PM run #2 ended prematurely when the cooling water system developed a severe leak at a push-on hose connection. Unfortunately the leak was inside the calorimeter chamber and the run had to be stopped. We will improve the connection with a suitable hose barb and hose clamp. The last portion of run #2 (during the day today) was conducted with the cooling water at 40C and the electrolyte at about 53C. The average Pout/Pin during a two hour period this afternoon was 0.999. We have tentatively decided to let these runs proceed for 10 days if no excess heat develops. However, since this run was doing nothing and since we have a couple of other cathodes waiting to be tried we will probably start run #3 next instead of continuing with run #2. Ragland says his positive results usually occurred within a day or two of starting the run. I would appreciate any comments about the 10-day trial period. Some may feel that this is too soon to call off a CF experiment. Ragland's attitude is simple...if it hasn't turned on by then, it's probably not going to be practical anyway. Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 23:35:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA21825; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:32:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: monteverde postoffice.worldnet.att.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <970623211903_-394649712 emout11.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:55:08 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: pheonix UFO Resent-Message-ID: <"99YUh2.0.tK5.sdshp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8658 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Frank - > It's people like that cause borderline believers to > become skeptics and skeptics to become more > skeptical. Yup. Say you and me, we decide we need to enhance skepticism and reduce the believability of this UFO stuff. So what do we do? "Hire" someone like Hoaglund? Nope. Don't even need to waste the Company's money. Just sit back and let people like that come up out of the woodwork. They always do. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 23 23:49:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA03931; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:47:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:47:26 -0700 Message-ID: <33AF7CD6.5483 earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 00:52:54 -0700 From: Rich Murray Reply-To: rmforall earthlink.net Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rbrtbass pahrump.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Seventh Miley Critique] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------583077E23F4F" Resent-Message-ID: <"kxFCO1.0.Lz.-rshp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8659 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------583077E23F4F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit June 23, 1997 Dear Bob Bass, What I call Miley's "First Preprint" and what I call Miley's "Energy Gain" were both published in "Infinite Energy" magazine, but as far as I can tell, with no editing or peer review. As you can see, my recent Seventh Critique, of "Energy Gain", is based on details, and is intended to be expressed in clear, forceful, but not at all abusive language. I asked many questions. If Miley were to release his before and after data for all of the six experimental runs in Second Preprint, and not just the Run # 11 of First Preprint, then anyone could make simple analyses to check the accuracy and reliability of the isotope ratios, and use after/before ratios to verify whether changes in isotopic ratios were supported by the data. In my First Miley Critique, I did just this, and found no support. It was posts by Richard Blue and Ron McFee in November that alerted me to inspect Miley's First Preprint carefully. I notice that Doug Morrison's critical reports are available in John Logajan's web site for cold fusion and new energy. I believe critics should be listened to carefully, and included in the ongoing dialogs. I send them the most factual stuff I find, pro and con. I don't believe in treating any player as a pariah. Personally, I prefer people to write me directly and bluntly, and express themselves any way they want. I'm only interested in whether I can find something in what is actually said that is right in fact. In several of my Critiques, I have acknowledged some errors, pointed out by others. Although some typos may slip through in almost any published report, especially a preprint, for me the number of typos in Miley's papers is astonishing and dismaying, especially considering the radical claims, which inevitably will attract far more competent and harsh scrutiny than I can supply. Let me know if you find fundamental errors in the details of my Critiques. Rich Murray Room For All 1943 Otowi Drive Santa Fe, NM 87502 505-986-9103 rmforall earthlink.net In the court of independent replication, the jury has not yet reported, as of today. I am glad to hear your praise of Miley, based on your extensive experience. --------------583077E23F4F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (smartlst mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by belize.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA27871; Fri, 30 May 1997 13:47:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA31754; Fri, 30 May 1997 13:39:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 13:39:06 -0700 Message-ID: <338F4942.BF earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 14:40:21 -0700 From: Rich Murray Reply-To: rmforall earthlink.net Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-L eskimo.com, 72240.1256@compuserve.com, 76570.2247@compuserve.com, kirk.shanahan srs.gov, claytor_t_n@lanl.gov, bssimon@helix.ucsd.edu, dennis wazoo.com, barry@math.ucla.edu, ine@padrak.com, little@eden.com, jonesse astro.byu.edu, g-miley@uiuc.edu, wireless@rmii.com, mcfee xdiv.lanl.gov, jlogajan@skypoint.com, dashj@sbii.sb2.pdx.edu, wharton climate.gsfc.nasa.gov, kennel@nhelab.iae.or.jp, design73 aol.com, blue@pilot.nsu.edu, drom@vxcern.cern.ch, david italy.it.earthlink.net, k@suba.com, shellied@sage.dri.edu, hheffner corecom.net, zetts@ml.wpafb.af.mil, rmills blacklightpower.com, wrgood@earthlink.net Subject: Seventh Miley Critique Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MGgvC3.0.3m7.fhpZp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/7561 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Friday, May 30, 1997 Rich Murray Room For All 1943 Otowi Drive Santa Fe, NM 87505 505-986-9103 rmforall earthlink.net Seventh Miley Critique On May 23, I found in "Infinite Energy" magazine # 12, a five-page article, "Energy Gain and Nuclear Transmutation By Low-Energy p- or d- Reactions in Metal Lattices," by Heinrich Hora and J.C. Kelly (School of Physics, U. of New South Wales, Sydney 2052, Australia) and G.H. Miley (Fusion Studies Lab, U. of Illinois, Urbana, Ill. 61801, USA). I will refer to this paper as Energy Gain. The main reference is #9: G.H. Miley, G. Marne, M.J. Williams, J.A. Patterson, J. Nix, C. Cravens, and H. Hora, Progress in New Hydrogen Energy, M. Okamoto, Ed., (New Energy and Industrial Technology, Tokyo, 1997), p. 629. I don't have this reference. Could someone send me a zerox? So, this critique will focus briefly upon disturbing aspects of the Energy Gain article, which should, after all, be an important, impeccable showcase of views, claims, and evidence. Figure 2: "Measured production rate density of elements depending on the atomic number Z in the palladium layers covering plastic spheres (beads) after being located for several hours between the electrodes electrolyzing a water solution (9). The concentrations of the created elements were measured with secondary ion mass spectrometry (SIMS) and other methods where the beads did not show these elements before the electrolysis. The measured elements had deviations from the natural isotope concentration by up to 15 % in agreement with fundamentally different experiments." The text comments: "The experiments (repeated several times) (9) used about 1mm diameter glass or plastic spheres (beads) covered with about 100 nm nickel or palladium or multilayers of these metals...After a two hour loading period of the metal layers with protons, where no significant heat was produced, a considerable excess heat production was measured, which can be related to nuclear reactions...it was measured that e.g. a considerable amount (up to 50%) of the nickel was transmutted into iron and other elements. The resulting elements had isotope ratios which were different from the natural ratio...The result of Fig. 2 is from beads with a palladium layer...Taking the results of 6 runs as shown in Fig. 2 (see Fig. [No figure number was given here.] of Ref. 9)...the observation that the transmutation of a considerable percentage of the atoms has occurred within days and weeks in agreement with the observations..." Fig. 2 shows Production rate in Atoms per second-cc with a scale from 10E12 to 10E18, with 23 elements: C, O, Mg, Si, Al, P [This point seems to me to be mislabeled as a second Si point.] , Cl, Ti, V, Cr, Fe, Co, Cu, Zn, Se, Sr, Zr, Ag, Cd, Sn, Te, Au, Pb. What seems to me to be a rather arbitrary four-peak curve is drawn through these points: for instance, a peak is indicated where Fe, Co, Cu, and Zn stand almost in a straight line across a range of ~500. Similarly, several what I judged to be misleading curves were offered in Miley's Second Preprint, summarizing experimental runs with six kinds of beads. It seemed natural to then check out the various graphs in Second Preprint. On page 10, Figure 4, Production Rate for palladium Run #11, I found the same collection of data points and the same added curve. Some of the data points are listed as numbers in Table 3 on page 6: Yield for NAA Elements, in which nine elements are listed for all six kinds of beads, but only as the difference between before and after, without the before and after data being listed. There are 45 postive values, and, surprisingly, 4 negative values. The palladium values include a substantial midrange value for Ni production. But Ni is not included on either Fig. 4 in Second Preprint or in Fig. 2 of Energy Gain, where it would lie between Cu and Zn at the top of the "second" peak and thus tend to substantiate the reality of that peak. Why this omission of a very intiguing data point? But Ni is included for Run # 11 in Figure 2 of Second Preprint, which shows Production Rate for all six kinds of beads. These graphs have to be doubled in scale via zerox, and studied very carefully, but the identity of Run # 11 can be indubitably established. For Run # 11, this graph excludes O (Z=8) and adds Mn (Z=25) and Mo (Z=42), I surmise, from inspecting the magnified graph carefully. However, in the same paper, Figure 4 does not include Mn, Mo, and, as I already mentioned, Ni (Z=28), and the point for O is unclear. Energy Gain omits Ni and Mo in its Fig. 2, and mislablels P (Z=15) as a second Si point. Why these omissions of data points? Energy Gain, as quoted above, seems to clearly state that six runs were summarized, by averaging the data, I suppose, to produce the points in Fig. 2. But the discussion of the same data in Second Preprint seems to treat the data as being from a single run. Why this inconsistency? About Run # 11, Second Preprint says: "Loading of hydrogen into the thin-film...requiring several hours...Run times of several weeks were typical...211 hours...0.1--0.9 W [These are exactly the same integer values as for three other runs] ...electrical input power of approximately 0.06W...2000 A [equals 200 pm]...The PS/P (palladium) core experiments [Notice the plural. This may be a hint that the data for Run # 11 is an average of a number of runs.] (Fig. 4) also show a "four-peak" behavior, but, unlike the corresponding Ni runs, the amplitudes of the peaks decrease progressively in going to high-Z." To me it seems reasonable to assert that claims about peaks in the distribution of elements are meaningless, when no measurements of amounts, identities, and isotopic abundances were made of the many elements that might escape as product gases, be dissolved in the electrolyte, collected as particles in the system filter, or deposited in the system as gunk. Likewise, how can a claim be made that "up to 50 %" of a nickel layer is transmutted, when measurements have only been made on selected microspots on a few selected sample beads? First Preprint gives before and after data from NAA on different sets of 10 nickel film beads, out of 1,000 used, described in Second Preprint as Run # 8. As I pointed out in my various Critiques, these after/before ratios do not indicate transmutation or isotopic anomalies, beyond the 15 % NAA measurement error. A summary of this point is added as an Addidum to this Critique. Would Miley make before and after tabular data freely available for all reported runs? SIMS measurements have to be made on micron-size spots on individual beads. Usually a scanning electron microscope image is also produced that shows the measurement site at a number of scales, and allows interesting sites to be selected for measurement. Other workers with similar experiments and results, such as Mizuno, Ohmori, and Dash, have published many such images of specific reaction sites that are claimed to have atypical element and isotopic abundances. Does Miley have such corroborative evidence? Would he make such information freely available? In Second Preprint, Figure 5: "Summary of isotope shifts for all runs as measured by SIMS", gives Difference in % (SIMS - Natural) against Mass Number (A). Even doubled in scale, I can establish little about Run # 11. A point labeled Te may be from Run # 11, and is at about +55 %. For all six types of beads, dozens of values outside + or - 15 % are plotted. Energy Gain seems to have reduced the claim to "up to 15 %". Why? If a substantial fraction of the palladium or nickel in a microspot was undergoing nuclear transmutations, wouldn't the resulting isotopic anomalies in that spot logically be many-fold for the rarer elements? How uniform or not are the SIMS "before" measurments on interesting sites on unused beads? How much hydrogen is already absorbed into the unused metal film? What if this hydrogen is somehow already largely concentrated into microregions of very high loading? How might we test the possibility that in the SIMS measurement process the 16 kv O ions that vaporize the measured microspots also separate isotopes or even produce nuclear transmutations? What about the possibility that electrolysis may occur partly as dense threads of current onto atypical microspots on the film, immediately making them even more atypical, and with intense electric and magnetic fields and subtle quantum effects, producing isotopic separations and even nuclear transmutations? Aren't the tantalizing phenomena so complex, and so unknown, as to make all theorizing largely misleading and irrelevant? What must we conclude about the credibility of "Infinite Energy" magazine, when radical reports are published without reasonable scrutiny either prior or post publication? Addidum: December 21, 1996 Dear Dr. Douglas Morrison, I was delighted to find on Vortex-L Jed Rothwell's forwarded messages from George Miley's answers to criticisms. Open and vigorous critical debate is the best honor we can render to important and unexpected research. In case you haven't seen my four critiques, I forwarded them to you. I think they're fairly unreadable, if you're not motivated enough to compare them with Miley's two preprints yourself, line by line, figure by figure. Oh well! Do you think my language was too "caustic"? I'm busy moving this weekend, but am getting ready to write a Fifth Miley Critique, pointing out more surprising errors in his preprints. I regret that I am finding some errors in the three reports of Mizuno's well-known transmutation claims, published in detail in Infinite Energy and in Journal of New Energy, and will soon write a Mizuno Critique. I believe that if a report itself is not almost totally impeccable, in terms of its clarity of language and visual design, free of proofreading errors, replete with basic data that allows the reader to easily and comprehensively double-check the claimed chains of data analysis, and carefully and thoroughly discussing any measurement and analysis problems, then critics have a duty to be corresponding skeptical about the entire body of research by that worker. You are quite right in emphasizing Feynman's practice of always being his own worst, and first, critic. Since Miley's responses to criticism have again and again mentioned that he has focused on Cu and Ag results as some of his clearest evidence for transmutations, I will take the space here to reiterate my after/before ratios in my first Miley Critique, calculated from his own data in Table 3 in his First Preprint, based on NAA analysis, given accuracy by him of +- 15 %: Isotope Atoms per Atoms per After/Before Ratio fresh beads reacted beads 29 Cu-63 3.57E+15 116.E+15 32.5 29 Cu-65 1.54E+15 49.7E+15 32.3 47 Ag-107 7.32E+15 76.1E+15 10.4 47 Ag-109 6.68E+15 61.4E+15 9.2 The remarkaby close agreement of these two pairs of values, which are for NAA analysis of different 10-bead samples, before and after, from runs using 1,000 beads each, indicates a simple multiplication of the initial number of atoms of the two elements, i.e., no isotopic shift effect, within the +- 15 % claimed NAA accuracy, hence, no evidence for transmutations. Rich Murray --------------583077E23F4F-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 05:33:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA24794; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 05:32:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 05:32:09 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970624082822_1378274086 emout19.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Piantelli Followup? Resent-Message-ID: <"OsbY_.0.K36.8vxhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8660 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Focardi, Habel & Piantelli published a short note about their dry CF cell in the Italian Journal *Nuovo Cimento* early in 1994. Word had it that there would be a followup article after their patent issued. Their international PCT patent application was filed January 1995 and published in August 1995 (see *Infinite Energy*, No. 4). Ed Storms said that they were granted an Italian patent (see*Cold Fusion Times*, Spring 1996) Did Focardi, Habel or Piantelli publish an article about their dry CF cell in conjunction with the granting of their Italian patent or the publication of their PCT patent application, or since then? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 06:08:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA31134; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 06:02:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 06:02:16 -0700 Date: 24 Jun 97 09:00:47 EDT From: Gene <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: VORTEX Subject: Re: Piantelli Followup? Message-ID: <970624130046_76570.2270_FHU48-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"YNxMg3.0.Oc7.NLyhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8661 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Did Focardi, Habel or Piantelli publish an article about their dry CF cell in >conjunction with the granting of their Italian patent or the publication of >their PCT patent application, or since then? I do not think so, but I heard directly last week from another Italian scientist that Piantelli et al are still being supported by Fiat. By the way, he said that The Saint had made its way to Italy -- and he liked it. Gene Mallove From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 06:54:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA06510; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 06:50:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 06:50:05 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970624094925_-126209978 emout03.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: About RMOD V3.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"BXdpe2.0.Qb1.A2zhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8662 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 24/06/1997 14:56:32 , Michael Randall wrote : << Hi Jean-Louis How does the unit work or operate for rotation? As per your drawing the magnet is stationary in the center. What is the purpose of the ball? Does it rolls around? Regards, Michael >> Hi Michael, This only matter for thinking today, this not the final design of this device , The magnet is stationary and fixed in center, the ball is used for regauging the system with gravity as the ball in the linear ramp in the SMOT. I think that it seems more simple to adjust separately the magnetic effect Vs the gravity drop, this adjustment can be done only by modifying the angle of phase ( angle of the magnet support ). The average position of ball is at the bottom of the wheel as see in my gif animation. In the original design of Peregrinus, the ball is Outside the cogs wheel and the teeth push the ball. I think that, in the original Peregrinus device use magnetic remanence of the iron as a pump for magnetic energy, he said : "let the north pole be then turned toward the teeth or cogs of the wheel somewhat slantingly so that the virtue of stone may not flow diametrrically into the iron teeth, but at a certain angle; consequently when one of the teeth comes near the north pole and owing to the impetus of the wheel passes it, it then approaches the south pole from which it is rather driven away than attracted, as is evident from the law given in a precedent chapter. Therefore such a tooth would be constantly attracted and constantly repelled...." I think that Peregrinus use the temporary magnetic polarisation of the iron for generating a magnetic repulsion force. We find the same principle in the Adams motor/generator. The core of the coil change its polarity when it pass through the center of the magnet. ( see the Nexus document about the Adams motor ). In the case of the Adams motor/generator the regauging is done by a short electromagnetic pulse when the rotating magnets leave the coils. The main problem is all these kinds machines is the timing adjustements between the pumping phase and the regauging phase. If we want to pump the ZPE energy ( or S-Flow) , we need to build a open system for a continuous flow of this energy and I think that this can be done with a short time frame's difference between two kind of energy ( magnetic/gravitational ). Nice to speak with you soon, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 07:27:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA13510; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 07:25:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 07:25:42 -0700 From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970624102450_1209563891 emout02.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Who/What is "Rich Murray" Resent-Message-ID: <"j2rMh3.0.0J3.bZzhp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8663 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: When I met Rich Murry and his lady friend in Pheonix she told me that she was physic and that I would soon be on television. A few months ago I appeared on national television in France. I wounder what she see's next! Frank Znidarsic From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 08:13:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA22572; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:09:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:09:44 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Who/What is "Rich Murray" Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 15:09:34 +0000 Message-ID: <19970624150932.AAA11303 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"nOEaA1.0.YW5.tC-hp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8664 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:25 PM 6/24/97 +0000, Frank Znidarsic wrote: >When I met Rich Murry and his lady friend in Pheonix she told me that she was >physic and that I would soon be on television. A few months ago I appeared >on national television in France. I wounder what she see's next! > >Frank Znidarsic > Frank Z. on the stage,perhaps? The one to Tucson, or Santa Fe? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 11:10:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA18099; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 11:06:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 11:06:35 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:09:48 -0600 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: * * * ANNOUNCEMENT * * * Resent-Message-ID: <"yJuAN1.0.gQ4.fo0ip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8665 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: * * * * * * * ANNOUNCEMENT * * * * * * * On Sunday Evening, June 29, 1997, the A & E NETWORK will present a 2-hour SPECIAL entitled "Conspiracies." I have been told that the SPECIAL will consist of eight different Segments. I have also been informed that JOSEPH NEWMAN will be featured as the 7th Segment. The broadcast time for the SPECIAL is indicated as 7pm for the Central Time Zone. Please consult your local TV listings for the actual broadcast time in your area. * * * * * * * ANNOUNCEMENT * * * * * * * Sincerely, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a physical existence in that intermediate space." --- MICHAEL FARADAY From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 14:29:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA04822; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:19:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Steck" Message-Id: <9706241611.ZM6741 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:11:03 -0500 In-Reply-To: JNaudin509 aol.com "Re : JLN - RMOD" (Jun 21, 2:35am) References: <970621034110_-1644035726 emout02.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : JLN - RMOD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"znCiv3.0.CB1.Gd3ip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8666 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Jun 21, 2:35am, JNaudin509 aol.com wrote: > In the RMOD the gravity as no effect in the regauging process..... > I have tried to use kinetic energy and the non-linearity of the ball's path > for breaking the magnetic attraction. I have similar sketches from when this xMOD thing first fired up. Your v2.0 layout caught my attention because it is almost the exact approach I had planned to take. To date, I have only been an observer due to time and resource restrictions. Glad to see someone else thinking along the same lines. > During my first series of tests the RMOD, once launched, rotates and STOPS > after a few time, the regauging effect is not sufficient to maintain the > rotation. It seems that the main problem comes from the material used for the > rotating balls. As far as I am concerned, I think that I need to find the appropriated > material or alloy which have a low magnetic saturation. It is my impression that just like closed loop SMOT, a successful RMOD would also require multiple "ramps" to function properly. My original design (untested and highly theoretical) calls for 3 "ramp" fields with four? spheres. The idea is to place the spheres processionally out of phase from the "j" ramps such that the "drop off" from one is assisted by both, the "climb" of the other two ramps and the tangential field drop off from the circular path of the rotor. The basis of this configuration is an attempt to eliminate inertia as a functional requirement. I like the idea of using a low saturation material. I had been considering some degaussing setup between the ramps to counter-act the artifact build up. Your approach may be more efficient by limiting the potential build up from the very beginning. Another departure in my design is the planned use of round bar magnets. The magnet array on each side would be setup with same size holes in a non-conductive material and using hot melt to hold the magnets in place. Instead of multiple magnets, the same length magnet would be used throughout by varying depth of the installation. For some reason I have a feeling the round shape will also help with the escape from the field by giving a more definable and centralized location of force. It seems to me that the corners on the square magnets at the exit complicate the drop off by over extending the field in the intended direction of escape. This is only a hypothesis as I have only seen Q-field analysis from the plan view, not the profile. I think a mid-"track" profile evaluation would be very revealing. > I am working today on magnetic simulation with QuickField, if you are > interested, I can send you some designs. I am studying most particularly a > special design with a thin shell around the ball made with a high > permeability alloy like supermalloy. The main goal of this study is to find > the good setup which can create a magnetic shield just before the higher flux > density area ( drop zone ) but without reducing significantly the magnetic to > kinetic energy conversion during the first part (2/3) of the magnetic ramps. I am be willing to take a look or read about whatever you wish to share, but I am unable to make any reliable commitments right now. At best, my involvement would have to be passive as I do not expect to be playing with my own RMOD designs for a while yet. I have too many other projects in process. Please keep up the good work! I look forward to hearing of your progress. -- Quote of the Day: Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot. -- John E. Steck Prototype Tooling Motorola Inc. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 15:28:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA10129; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 15:26:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 15:26:22 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Low Energy Pair-Neutrino, Production? Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:13:16 +0000 Message-ID: <19970624171313.AAA5929 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"e86vZ1.0.AU2.Dc4ip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8667 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Vortex: Production of low energy-mass pairs that can be in the bound state could explain the net spin 1/2, chargeless, neutrino or antineutrino. If the energy was as low as a few ev (or less)the agitation of water or friction as in the Griggs Pump, Sonoluminescence effects, or the Yusmar, the "CF" energy effects could be explained. There is certainly enough energy (a few ev range)on the "beads" or cathodes to provide the energy for pair formation. The formed pairs could be bound as non-interacting neutrinos, or in the unbound state the negative "particle" could be absorbed by a deuteron, proton, or for that matter, any nucleus which could be disrupted and undergo nuclear reactions (transmutation)and release energy. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 17:19:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA12489; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:15:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:15:32 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:15:16 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Time to freeze and ship? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3-4cx2.0.Z23.XC6ip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8668 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From Jed... ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com www.eskimo.com/~billb EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 24 Jun 97 13:47:16 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 CompuServe.COM> To: William Beaty [THIS MESSAGE BOUNCED BACK AFTER 1 DAY, 12 HOURS, WITH "AN UNDELIVERABLE MESSAGE" ERROR. I MAY HAVE POSTED IT TWICE TODAY, 6/24/97.] Perhaps it is now time for Greg Watson to freeze the SMOT design, build the demo kits people have ordered, and ship them out. No doubt the design will continue to evolve rapidly, almost day by day, as improvements and suggestions come in. However, there are two good arguments for shipping now: 1. From Greg's messages I gather the present tapered array configuration works pretty well, for him, anyway. Chris and I cannot get it to say boo. 2. Chris and many others are struggling to replicate it without success. They feel a growing sense of frustration. I suppose Chris cannot replicate because we do not have a comprehensive description of the machine. We do not know the field strength of the magnets, which must be a critical parameter. There may be other critical parameters, like the exact size of the ball, or even its composition. A comprehensive map of the magnetic fields is probably needed. When you make a tiny change to the machine, the performance can change radically, so the parameters must be critical. Greg does not have the equipment to measure them all. Nobody knows which ones are critical, so we must examine them all. If we get some working SMOTs in hand, perhaps we can encourage top-notch laboratories to measure additional parameters with their high tech equipment in order to write a more complete set of specifications. That is how technology progresses. - Jed T: Vortex S: Seventh Miley Critique Rich Murray writes: I will take the space here to reiterate my after/before ratios in my first Miley Critique, calculated from his own data in Table 3 in his First Preprint, based on NAA analysis, given accuracy by him of +- 15 %: Isotope Atoms per Atoms per After/Before Ratio fresh beads reacted beads 29 Cu-63 3.57E+15 116.E+15 32.5 29 Cu-65 1.54E+15 49.7E+15 32.3 47 Ag-107 7.32E+15 76.1E+15 10.4 47 Ag-109 6.68E+15 61.4E+15 9.2 The remarkaby close agreement of these two pairs of values, which are for NAA analysis of different 10-bead samples, before and after, from runs using 1,000 beads each, indicates a simple multiplication of the initial number of atoms of the two elements, i.e., no isotopic shift effect, within the +- 15 % claimed NAA accuracy, hence, no evidence for transmutations. This is the same conclusion Miley reaches. The last column of the table shows no significant isotopic shift for Cu or Ag. Let's have a look at another NAA element, Zn: % of isotope Mass No. Fresh Reacted After/Before Natural After 64 1.42E+15 1.67E+16 11.8 50 39 66 7.82E+14 9.22E+15 11.8 28 22 67 1.14E+14 2.16E+15 18.9 4 5 68 5.08E+14 1.30E+16 25.6 18 31 70 1.64E+13 1.24E+15 75.6 1 3 Let's have a look at a non-NAA element, silicon: % of isotope Mass No. Fresh Reacted After/Before Natural After 28 8.14E+16 3.02E+17 3.7 99 94 29 <1E+15 2E+16 >20 <1 6 . . . Oh easy it is to knock down a strawman you yourself set up. Pick the right data, ignore the rest, and you can prove just about any damn thing. As shown on table 4a, there is nowhere near enough silver or copper contamination in the cathode, cell or cell components to account for these results. There is no way you can get copper or silver to appear spontaneously out of nowhere deep in a cathode. Therefore, the logical conclusion is is that this process just happened to produce copper and silver in their natural isotopic ratios, while it produced other elements in unnatural isotopic ratios. Since there is no known way you can produce any elements in any ratios under such mild conditions, this makes the mystery only a little more difficult to explain. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 17:19:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA12884; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:16:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:16:23 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:15:03 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Low Energy Pair-Neutrino, Production? Resent-Message-ID: <"S_458.0.B93.KD6ip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8669 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 9:13 AM 6/24/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote: >To Vortex: > >Production of low energy-mass pairs that can be in the bound state >could explain the net spin 1/2, chargeless, neutrino or antineutrino. [snip] > >Regards, Frederick Are you talking charged light leptons here? If so, isn't there a small problem with that? How can you sum the spins of two leptons (which are spin 1/2, fermions) to get net spin 1/2? It would require a boson-fermion pair. This would imply the existance of light bosons - pretty hard to accept. Light photon and light neutrino bound? If not light charged leptons, are you talking bound light chargeless particles? If so, no need to have a *bound* pair (ignoring the question of how such a bound state might occur) because simultaneous but opposed direction neutral pair creation takes care of the old CF signature problem, as I posted earlier. I'm not sure what you are getting at. Could you explain further? Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 20:15:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA00305; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:05:39 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex , John Schnurer Subject: # 5,142,861 Schlicher (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"uNlA62.0.e4.Am8ip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8670 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Subject: # 5,142,861 Schlicher MAGNETIC IMPULSE Propulsion. I am informed the work for this was done very carefully and it operates. Go to IBM patent server for the whole thing. JHS From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 21:03:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA29341; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:00:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:00:11 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Low Energy Pair-Neutrino, Production? Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 01:10:36 +0000 Message-ID: <19970625011022.AAB5848 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"YzvGr.0.IA7.AV9ip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8671 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:15 AM 6/25/97 +0000, Horace Heffner wrote: >At 9:13 AM 6/24/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote: >>To Vortex: >> >>Production of low energy-mass pairs that can be in the bound state >>could explain the net spin 1/2, chargeless, neutrino or antineutrino. >[snip] >> >>Regards, Frederick > > >Are you talking charged light leptons here? If so, isn't there a small >problem with that? How can you sum the spins of two leptons (which are >spin 1/2, fermions) to get net spin 1/2? It would require a boson-fermion >pair. This would imply the existance of light bosons - pretty hard to >accept. Light photon and light neutrino bound? > >If not light charged leptons, are you talking bound light chargeless >particles? If so, no need to have a *bound* pair (ignoring the question of >how such a bound state might occur) because simultaneous but opposed >direction neutral pair creation takes care of the old CF signature problem, >as I posted earlier. > >I'm not sure what you are getting at. Could you explain further? Thought that would get your attention, Horace. :-) The moment of inertia (I)for a cylindrical shell around it's axis is MR^2. The moment of inertia (I)for a disc around it's axis is 1/2 MR^2. If the configuration of a bound pair of wave-particles making a neutrino is mimicking this, the net spin is 1/2, ain't it? Change the pairing configuration and you get a spin 1/2 antineutrino. Nature Does Not Create Chargeless Particle Pairs. :-) The product I*w is the spin angular momentum (mvr) where w is 2(pi) times "rotation" frequency (f) of the wave-particle. Crunch some numbers and you will see it tie together at hbar. As to a CF-Mills approach, the light negative lepton can go right into the nucleus gaining energy and losing "size-radius" same as K electron capture: V = q/8(pi)eo*r or E' = Eo[(qV/Eo)+ 1] where Eo = Mo*c^2. In other words the nucleus can give energy to a created particle and swallow it, and then barf it up with neutrino-shedding (sans heat) transmutations or other CF stuff. :-) Regards, Frederick > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 21:10:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA07784; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33B098ED.7B82 skylink.net> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:05:01 -0700 From: Robert Stirniman X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: # 5,142,861 Schlicher (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hRQFY.0.Uv1.bc9ip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8672 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John Schnurer wrote: > Subject: # 5,142,861 Schlicher > MAGNETIC IMPULSE Propulsion. > I am informed the work for this was done very carefully and it > operates. Go to IBM patent server for the whole thing. There is also another patent which seemingly operates under a similar principle. Patent # 5,197,279, James R. Taylor, Electromagnetic Energy Propulsion Engine Robert Stirniman From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 21:12:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA07942; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33B0935F.F99FE8CB verisoft.com.tr> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 07:41:19 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: # 5,142,861 Schlicher (fwd) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ltEka1.0.xx1.De9ip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8673 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: John Schnurer wrote: > > Subject: # 5,142,861 Schlicher > > MAGNETIC IMPULSE Propulsion. > > I am informed the work for this was done very carefully and it > operates. Go to IBM patent server for the whole thing. > > JHS This is the previous discussion before the SMOT and there is references on vortex between dates 3/23/97 and 4/23/97. Watson is decided to build it and I opposed to it by the difficulty to keep cool the engine when it's dissipating 40 kW. Anybody had to operate it more than few seconds to measure its continuous trust? But If we believe it is working and gives continuous trust by other way than pushing the air using its diamagnetic property, it is worth to investigate. Regards, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 21:20:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA00727; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:13:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:13:22 -0700 Message-ID: <33B099DA.E22A27D3 microtronics.com.au> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:38:58 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: SMOT Kit update X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WApRd.0.DB.Xh9ip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8674 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, Just a short note. I have frozen the SMOT kits at Mk2 level. I expect the perspex bases to be delivered by late this week or early next week. I will then "hand tune" each ramp for its best operation. All ramps, magnets and bases will be labeled so as to allow assembly as I had them. I will be going to Perth next week for Mark's wings presentation. Everything should have arrived when I get back. Therefore, I expect to start shipping kits in about 2 weeks. Sorry for the delay, but I know you understand how important it is for everything to be correct. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 21:25:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA10024; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33B09C53.4443 skylink.net> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:19:31 -0700 From: Robert Stirniman X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: shorty greatlakes.net Subject: Re: Particles and The Gravitational Constant, "Big G". References: <19970623115452.AAA21389 LOCALNAME> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GYE2i2.0.VS2.Kq9ip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8675 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Frederick J. Sparber wrote: > The gravitational constant G; 6.67E-11 can be factored out to the > Ampere's Law force constant; 1.0E-7 * (0.02583)^2. It is believed that > the 0.02583 value is the magnetostatic value of ampere-meters/kilogram > for the force between masses at a separation distance (r). > etc. Frederick. Why do these mass-equivalent current-elements (magnetic poles) always attract each other? Regards, Robert Stirniman From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 22:16:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA15422; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:15:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:15:03 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Particles and The Gravitational Constant, "Big G". Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 05:14:50 +0000 Message-ID: <19970625051448.AAA2197 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"7CUNC3.0.um3.MbAip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8676 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 04:19 AM 6/25/97 +0000, Robert Stirniman wrote: >Frederick J. Sparber wrote: >> The gravitational constant G; 6.67E-11 can be factored out to the >> Ampere's Law force constant; 1.0E-7 * (0.02583)^2. It is believed that >> the 0.02583 value is the magnetostatic value of ampere-meters/kilogram >> for the force between masses at a separation distance (r). >> etc. > >Frederick. Why do these mass-equivalent current-elements >(magnetic poles) always attract each other? Fun question. Take a bunch of magnets in separate storage compartments up in the space shuttle and release them. :-) You will find that work has to be done in aligning magnets so as to repel one another. Entropy wins. :-) Regards, Frederick > >Regards, >Robert Stirniman > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jun 24 23:37:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA28403; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:38:29 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: List Server Vortex cc: List Server Freenrg , gwatson@microtronics.com.au Subject: Re: SMOT Kit update In-Reply-To: <33B099DA.E22A27D3 microtronics.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KOMh2.0.gx6.lkBip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8677 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > Hi All, > Just a short note. > I have frozen the SMOT kits at Mk2 level. I expect the perspex bases to > be delivered by late this week or early next week. I will then "hand > tune" each ramp for its best operation. All ramps, magnets and bases > will be labeled so as to allow assembly as I had them. Greg, Did you get/see my "fumble fingers" ramp assymbly (with attch .gif).. Once it's 'screwed down' and set, you can literally drop it from the tabel and it probably will still work (roll-a-way). Throwing it against the wall however may be different, but it is VERY SOLID, especially if "hand tune"'d by you.. just open package and set Ball on ramp and off and rolling it goes! :) hard to link, but shows SMOT/Blue Hole very quickly. I think I can resend it if you missed it.?? (it "starts" 10mm no problem, before 'fine tuning') se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 02:04:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA15076; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 02:01:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 02:01:45 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:16:21 GMT From: "Peter Glueck" Message-ID: <33b0e1e8.itim itim.org.soroscj.ro> To: "vortex" Subject: an engineer's nightmare Resent-Message-ID: <"6DqUd1.0.Ph3.tvDip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8678 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Vortexers, Elliot Kennel's messages re. Pd-SIMS reveal frightening facts from the area of "classical" cold fusion i.e D2O electrolysis with bulk Pd cathodes. From the point of view of engineering we have to face a genuine disaster like illustrated by statements like: " there remains a permanent mystery in that we can use the same materials and perform the same materials treatments and get different results and we don't know why" " I don't think there is is a simple answer that one vendor is bad and one is clearly good" Chronicized troubles and puzzles. A good cathode is a cathode which is good and gives excess heat and can be found by a tauthological trial and error method in which case the number of the errors is greater than the number of the trials..given that even for the so-called working cathodes the effect is of low intensity and dubious reliability. No viable technology can be based on such incontrolable facts. As Jed has shown in his letter to NHE, this approach to CF is simply not good, is a cul de sac. >From the point of view of science, this persistent and damaging lack of reproducibility MUST have a logical, cause-effect explanation; I do not believe in occult forces, damnation or karma. My opinion was and is that all these misfortunes happen just because only a very small fraction of the surface (typically 0.01-0.1%) is active, being the very locus where the heat releasing processes take place. In essence, any CF system has two choices; to be catalytic or dead. All the methods used to choose or to treat the cathodes are targeting the global properties of the materials which are not directly correlated to the relevant local structures--active sites. It is almost impossible to generate the necessary high number of such sites on the surface of a bulky cathode, therefore the fiasco-like outcome is warranted. Please take in consideration the complexity of the concept of "surface"--actually all surface are, at the quantum level, infinite and highly dynamic; we have outer and inner surfaces as well. After 38 years of work in technological research and development this situation terrifies me, it is a challenge and an offense to what I think is scientific and technological culture and mode of thinking. By no means I am trying to belittle Elliot's work, on the contrary he has done his best..but inside a frame of thought and experimental limitation which lead to nowhere. What has to be limited, in my opinion, is this line of research, which is a nightmare for an engineer and it's the worst nightmare for a dedicated cold-fusionist aiming to see this new science as productive, understood, accepted and applied. Peter -- dr. Peter Gluck Institute of Isotopic and Molecular Technology Fax:064-420042 Cluj-Napoca, str. Donath 65-103, P.O.Box 700 Tel:064-184037/144 Cluj 5, 3400 Romania Home: 064-174976 E-mail: peter itim.org.soroscj.ro , peterg@oc1.itim-cj.ro From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 04:31:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA23397; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 04:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 04:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970625070821.0070e8a4 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 07:08:21 +0000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: an engineer's nightmare In-Reply-To: <33b0e1e8.itim itim.org.soroscj.ro> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Npx3_1.0.Vj5.PoFip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8679 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:16 AM 6/25/97 GMT, Dr. Gluck wrote of some of the difficulties of achieving cold fusion: >My opinion was and is that all these misfortunes happen just >because only a very small fraction of the surface (typically >0.01-0.1%) is active, being the very locus where the heat releasing >processes take place. In essence, any CF system has two choices; >to be catalytic or dead. All the methods used to choose or to >treat the cathodes are targeting the global properties of the >materials which are not directly correlated to the relevant local >structures--active sites. It is almost impossible to generate the >necessary high number of such sites on the surface of a bulky >cathode, therefore the fiasco-like outcome is warranted. IMO, except that the active sites are deeper in palladium, and I am less certain as to the range of purported active fraction, Dr. Gluck has stated here several of the issues quite clearly. Dr. Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 05:11:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA28403; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 05:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 05:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:27:26 GMT From: "Peter Glueck" Message-ID: <33b10eb6.itim itim.org.soroscj.ro> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: an engineer's nightmare Resent-Message-ID: <"XSLwM1.0.hx6.jfGip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8680 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 04:10:19 -0700 (PDT), vortex-l eskimo.com wrote: > IMO, except that the active sites are deeper in palladium, > and I am less certain as to the range of purported active fraction, > Dr. Gluck has stated here several of the issues quite clearly. > > Dr. Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com) I agree considering that internal microcavities, accessible via the intergranular boarders belong to the "surface". Closed cavities are the prerequisite to obtaining massive nuclear phenomena as by Arata (see his giant, in all respects, paper) and at Russ George (see the paper re. helium bubbles on his website). In other cases, IMHO, the source of excess heat is only in part nuclear. For transmutations other active site structures are necessary and in the case of the most intense effects--CETI and CG--it is negative excess heat developed, that's the energy is going back to the space energy. Can somebody give a plausible explanation for an athermal fission reaction; we can imagine any kind of intermediate nuclear aggregates but the released energy is the difference between the initial and the end states !? Peter -- dr. Peter Gluck Institute of Isotopic and Molecular Technology Fax:064-420042 Cluj-Napoca, str. Donath 65-103, P.O.Box 700 Tel:064-184037/144 Cluj 5, 3400 Romania Home: 064-174976 E-mail: peter itim.org.soroscj.ro , peterg@oc1.itim-cj.ro From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 05:37:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA10575; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 05:36:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 05:36:48 -0700 Message-ID: <33B0CC89.59BE earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 06:41:55 -0700 From: Rich Murray Reply-To: rmforall earthlink.net Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-L eskimo.com, 72240.1256@compuserve.com, kirk.shanahan@srs.gov, claytor_t_n lanl.gov, 76570.2270@compuserve.com, design73@aol.com, blue pilot.msu.edu, rbrtbass@pahrump.com, dennis@wazoo.com, little eden.com, britz@kemi.aau.dk, g-miley@uiuc.edu, wireless rmii.com, mcfee@xdiv.lanl.gov, jonesse@astro.byu.edu, jlogajan skypoint.com, kennel@nhelab.iae.or.jp, drom@vxcern.cern.ch, david norway.it.earthlink.net, k@suba.com, shellied@sage.dri.edu, zettsjs ml.wpafb.af.mil, rmills@blacklightpower.com, wrgood earthlink.net, mikec@snip.net Subject: Murray [1] re Rothwell re Miley Critiques Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zXwOb3.0.9b2.V3Hip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8681 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Wednesday, June 25, 1997 Rich Murray Room For All 1943 Otowi Drive Santa Fe, NM 87505 505-986-9103 rmforall earthlink.net Murray re Rothwell re Miley Critiques Jed Rothwell writes on June 25, 1997: [start of post] [Murray's answers are in brackets.] Rich Murray writes: I will take the space here to reiterate my after/before ratios in my First Miley Critique, [posted Dec 7, 1996, on George H. Miley, "Nuclear Transmutations in Thin-Film Nickel Coatings Undergoing Electrolysis," "Infinite Energy" magazine, # 9, July-August, 1996] calculated from his own data in Table 3 in his First Preprint, based on NAA analysis, given accuracy by him of +- 15 %: Isotope Atoms per Atoms per After/Before Ratio fresh beads reacted beads 29 Cu-63 3.57E+15 116.E+15 32.5 29 Cu-65 1.54E+15 49.7E+15 32.3 47 Ag-107 7.32E+15 76.1E+15 10.4 47 Ag-109 6.68E+15 61.4E+15 9.2 The remarkaby close agreement of these two pairs of values, which are for NAA analysis of different 10-bead samples, before and after, from runs using 1,000 beads each, indicates a simple multiplication of the initial number of atoms of the two elements, i.e., no isotopic shift effect, within the +- 15 % claimed NAA accuracy, hence, no evidence for transmutations." Rothwell: This is the same conclusion Miley reaches. The last column of the table shows no significant isotopic shift for Cu or Ag. [Murray: Miley's Table 3 claims shifts for Cu of +- .80 % and for Ag of +- 5.17 % . Miley gives no estimate of what percentage change would be significant.] Let's have a look at another NAA element, Zn: [Murray: I have added some raw data SIMS counts, estimated from a double-size zerox of Fig. 3b, "Typical low resolution SIMS scan after the run (average of microspheres in 3 layers in the cell).] % of isotope Mass No. Fresh Reacted After/Before Natural After [SIMS] 64 1.42E+15 1.67E+16 11.8 50 39 [~30 ] 66 7.82E+14 9.22E+15 11.8 28 22 [~10 ] 67 1.14E+14 2.16E+15 18.9 4 5 [~ 3 ] 68 5.08E+14 1.30E+16 25.6 18 31 [~10 ] 70 1.64E+13 1.24E+15 75.6 1 3 [~ 1 ] [Murray: Miley's Table 3 claims +15.84 % isotopic shift for Zn 68, which has a raw data SIMS count of about 10 .] Let's have a look at a non-NAA element, silicon: [Murray: I have added Miley's data for Si 30, and SIMS counts. Si was not double-checked with NAA analysis.] % of isotope Mass No. Fresh Reacted After/Before Natural After [SIMS] 28 8.14E+16 3.02E+17 3.7 99 94 [~300] 29 <1E+15 2E+16 >20 <1 6 [~ 30] [i.e., zero] [2.04E+16] [?] [30] [zero] [1.02E+16] [?] [~ 10] [Murray: Again, the poverty of raw data precludes any claims about isotopic shifts, especially to four-digit accuracy! Miley's Table 3 claims Si 30 has a +14.66 % shift, based on a raw data SIMS count of about 10. Presumably, Fig. 3b presents Miley's best raw data-- why else would he publish it? By the way, why is the after data for Si 29 twice that for Si 30 ?] Oh easy it is to knock down a strawman you yourself set up. Pick the right data, ignore the rest, and you can prove just about any damn thing. [Murray: I have to agree that I have recently seen evidence for this. I am grateful that Jed with his usual surgical eloquence has pointed out this reoccurent problem.] Jed: As shown on table 4a, there is nowhere near enough silver or copper contamination in the cathode, cell or cell components to account for these results. There is no way you can get copper or silver to appear spontaneously out of nowhere deep in a cathode. Therefore, the logical conclusion is is that this process just happened to produce copper and silver in their natural isotopic ratios, while it produced other elements in unnatural isotopic ratios. Since there is no known way you can produce any elements in any ratios under such mild conditions, this makes the mystery only a little more difficult to explain. [Murray: My first five Miley Critiques present plenty of data from Miley's first two Preprints that show massive transfer of Ni from some beads to other beads within the thousand beads in a cell. So, since much of the Ni is dissolved from some beads and redeposited on other beads, any trace elements will be liberated and redeposited, probably as concentrated spots, which are likely to be noticed and measured by the micron-scale SIMS scans on a few spots on the about 10 or so beads selected for study out of the thousand in a cell. Only a thorough, detailed, exact inventory of cell contents and products, including gunk, gases, and garbage, could determine if transmutation or transfer is the model to be applied to the data base. This is especially true, since the excess heat claims are feeble and unsupported, and there is almost no record of radiation.] [Murray: For those willing to suffer through more tedious details, here is the relevant quote from my First Miley Critique:] Here is a selection from Table 3 of NAA element data, before and after: (I have arranged the data by element, in order, and calculated the ratio, after/before. When helpful, I added natural abundance, the estimated SIMS count from Fig. 3b., and possible same-mass interferences.) #atoms per microsphere ratio, after/before before after 23-V50 3.54E10 70.1E10 19.8 23-Cr50? 23-V51 1.44E13 28.6E13 19.9 24-Cr50 omitted, 4.4%, SIMS=~500, 23-V50? 24-Cr52 5.63E14 1070E14 190. 24-Cr53 6.27E13 1360E13 217. 24-Cr54 1.53E13 255E15 167. 26-Fe54 2.82E15 17.8E15 6.31 26-Fe56 4.29E16 27.0E16 6.29 26-Fe57 1.01E15 14.1E15 14.0 26-Fe58 omitted, 0.28 %, SIMS=~1000, 28-Ni58? 27-Co59 1.23E14 19.9E14 16.2 100% 29-Cu63 3.57E15 116E15 32.5 29-Cu65 1.54E15 49.7E15 32.3 30-Zn64 1.42E15 16.7E15 11.8 28-Ni64? 30-Zn66 7.82E14 92.2E14 11.8 30-Zn67 1.14E14 21.6E14 19.0 4.1%, SIMS=~10 30-Zn68 5.08E14 130E14 25.6 18.8%, SIMS=~11 30-Zn70 1.64E13 124E13 75.6 0.6%, SIMS=~1, 32-Ge70? 47-Ag107 7.32E15 76.1E15 10.4 47-Ag109 6.68E15 61.4E15 9.2 Of these 7 NAA elements, the V pair is typical, with after/before ratios astonishingly close at 19.8 and 19.9, giving absolutely no hint of changes in isotopic abundances, but suggesting strongly a 20-fold transfer of metal from one set of beads to another within the cell. This is obviously the same for Cr, Fe, Co, Cu, Zn, and Ag, considering the +- 15 % precision of NAA. The most out-of-line isotope is 30-Zn70, with ratio 75.6, has only 0.6 % natural abundance, making its measurement more susceptible to dust contamination, and, shall we say, random glitches, as well possible interferences from 32-Ge70. The remarkable close match of some of the isotope pairs for V, FE, Cu, Zn, and Ag is surprising and gratifying, and gives us more faith in the NAA measurements. Miley claims that 47-Ag107 is enhanced 5.17 %, and 47-Ag109 depleated 5.17 %, while the data given show strictly natural abundances. His procedure for estimating changes in isotopic abundances is a rude mathematical device for exaggerating random fluctuations. All his claims based on it are groundless, or as Wolfgang Pauli said more than once, "This is not even wrong." Part of this "not even wrong" is the profuse use of unjustified, meaningless two-decimal place numerical data, with only the most meager concession to modern standards of error estimation. [End of quote.] With satisfaction, Rich Murray From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 08:13:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA24814; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 08:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 08:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 07:08:36 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Low Energy Pair-Neutrino, Production? Resent-Message-ID: <"BiIZb2.0.Z36.fJJip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8682 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 5:10 PM 6/24/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote: [snip] > >The moment of inertia (I)for a cylindrical shell around it's axis >is MR^2. The moment of inertia (I)for a disc around it's axis is >1/2 MR^2. If the configuration of a bound pair of wave-particles >making a neutrino is mimicking this, the net spin is 1/2, ain't it? >Change the pairing configuration and you get a spin 1/2 antineutrino. Hmmm, still sounds like you are talking a lepton-boson pair. > >Nature Does Not Create Chargeless Particle Pairs. :-) Nature might just create chrgeless particles in pairs (not annihilating pairs) fairly consistantly if two or more "spare" neutron equivalents are in the products of a collapsed Bose condensate when the waveform collapses due to excitation from an impinging particle. > >The product I*w is the spin angular momentum (mvr) where w is 2(pi) >times "rotation" frequency (f) of the wave-particle. Crunch some >numbers and you will see it tie together at hbar. > >As to a CF-Mills approach, the light negative lepton can go right >into the nucleus gaining energy and losing "size-radius" same >as K electron capture: V = q/8(pi)eo*r or E' = Eo[(qV/Eo)+ 1] >where Eo = Mo*c^2. In other words the nucleus can give energy >to a created particle and swallow it, and then barf it up with >neutrino-shedding (sans heat) transmutations or other CF stuff. :-) > >Regards, Frederick > Sounds like another tea party. 8^) Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 09:23:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA23147; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 09:16:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 09:16:13 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 09:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706251616.JAA23217 norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Re : About RMOD V3.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"UrIxj.0.Wf5.AHKip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8683 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jean-Louis, Thanks for the info on Peregrinus. His and your rotary design looks interesting. The use magnetic remanence of the iron as a pump for magnetic energy effect with the ball for gravity regauge looks like it could self rotate but I don't know of what kind of torque could be for output use. Overunity yours, Michael From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 10:13:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA13951; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:06:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:06:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33B14F5A.661E skylink.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:03:22 -0700 From: Robert Stirniman X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Particles and The Gravitational Constant, "Big G". References: <19970625051448.AAA2197 LOCALNAME> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oS0-q1.0.qP3.L0Lip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8684 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Frederick J. Sparber wrote: > Fun question. Take a bunch of magnets in separate storage compartments > up in the space shuttle and release them. :-) > You will find that work has to be done in aligning magnets so as to > repel one another. Entropy wins. :-) Still you can add more or less energy and orient magnetic poles in any range from repulsive to neutral to attractive. Anyhow, if the force depends fundamentally on electron motion, should not isotopes of the same element all have the same weight? Robert Stirniman From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 10:54:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA20443; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: < snip.net> From: "Mike Carrell" To: Subject: Re: an engineer's nightmare Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:30:09 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19970625173207940.AAA197 default> Resent-Message-ID: <"-KtXQ.0.K_4.wYLip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8686 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, it is an engineer's nightmare, and with no firmer basis than an engineer's educated intuition, I have to join with Peter and Mitchell in concern. We are thankfully past the point where the existence of the anomalous heat effects are in question. And there has been much impatient pounding on CETI et. al. for not marching out a product. Think back to the days of the crystal set where people would probe the surface of a lump of galena looking for an active site that would function as a good detector. There was no theory to define the nature of the active site; that came decades later. Critics of CF have demanded a theory before belief; that's wrong. But you do need theory for scale-up and reproduceablitlity. Apparently, a few experimenters stumbled across transistor effects decades before supporting theory was in place and their efforts foundered. We are in much the same situation. Peter's insistence on catalysis and surfaces is simply pointing to where to look; it does not define the necessary conditions. I note that Arata got his very positive results using palladium black which if nothing else has a far greater surface/volume ratio that the Patterson beads. I remember the strenuous efforts by Bose corportation to duplicate the P&F effect. One of their efforts to "do it right" included procuring cathodes of hyper-pure, monocrystaline palladium -- which were possibly the most-wrong configuration. Hyper-pure, monocrystaline silicon is an excellent insulator; it is the interfaces between the induced impurities that produce the transistor effect. In defense of NHE, it may turn out that the patient work there may eventually contribute to the foundations of a theory, but it does appear to need the seasoning of empirically derived devices that rivet our attention by working, however sporadically. Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 11:03:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA20358; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:42:21 -0700 (PDT) From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970625134018_679113957 emout14.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: meeting held patent applied for Resent-Message-ID: <"bIrS91.0.0-4.xXLip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8685 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A meeting was held between John X, Dr. Ron Madision, and Frank Znidarsic. I expressed concern that the Marshall group was on the right track and could rediscover our technology. I also have sent the Marshall group all my theoretical papers in an effort to develop a working relationship. This new understanding could push them over the edge. We all agreed that disclousures were no longer sufficient protection. Our reduced to practice technology was sent to Puthoff's patent lawyer, Lowe, Price and Leblanc in DC. After (and If) the proper protection is aquired I will disclose my reduced to practice method. It will work. It makes electrical energy directly from a zero point interaction with no moving parts. This is the technology that Reed Huish would want. Frank Znidarsic From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 12:08:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA02048; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:03:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:03:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Particles and The Gravitational Constant, "Big G". Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:01:11 +0000 Message-ID: <19970625190109.AAA23678 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"iP4fF.0.vV.VjMip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8687 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:03 PM 6/25/97 +0000, Robert Stirniman wrote: > >Still you can add more or less energy and orient magnetic >poles in any range from repulsive to neutral to attractive. >Anyhow, if the force depends fundamentally on electron motion, >should not isotopes of the same element all have the same >weight? But, the energy exerted is coming from the "heat" content of the magnets, you would see a temperature drop in the magnets if you had sensitive enough (infrared) sensors. The "force" (relativistic gravitational-magnetic)that I propose is coming from the sub-atomic particles in the nucleus. For any atom or isotope, I propose that there are 5A - Z "entities": 2A "up" or positive units 2A - Z "down" or negative units Z external electrons A -Z neutrinos ie., one neutrino/neutron The entities in the nucleus can be visualized as individual current loops stacked like thin donuts. Negatively charged units "rotate" on way and the positive the other, making in effect a magnetic solenoid (dipole) which generates the weak time-dilated gravitational force. >From this the hydrogen atom has 2 up and one down unit plus the external negative electron. Reverse the line-up and you get antihydrogen. :-) The Deuterium nucleus, (8 internal entities) plus an external electron which was posted the other day: ------> + <------ - -------> + <------- - -------> + <------- - -------> + --------> 0 (neutrino) [e-] Net nuclear charge = plus 1, spin = 1 Regards, Frederick > >Robert Stirniman > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 14:19:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA17645; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:15:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:15:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970625171609.009db640 spectre.mitre.org> X-Sender: eachus spectre.mitre.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:16:09 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Robert I. Eachus" Subject: Re: Europa Image -- AC Clarke Request Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <33af179b.3837757 mail.eisa.net.au> References: <3.0.1.32.19970623174008.00944780 spectre.mitre.org> <3.0.1.32.19970623174008.00944780 spectre.mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HDmRU1.0.aJ4.PfOip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8688 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:22 AM 6/24/97 GMT, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >On Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:40:08 -0400, Robert I. Eachus wrote: > >How about a meteor striking the surface tangentially, and plowing a >long furrow with piles of removed material on both sides? >Or two plates that rock up and down. The plate moving up scrapes >matter off the side wall of the other plate, and deposits it on top it >as it passes the edge... Actually I didn't write anything in Robin's message, but these are reasonable explanations and there are some long features which these explanations fit very well. However, there are many others which they don't fit. >(Sorry for being a wet blanket :). Not what you are doing. We need several theories, then a way to test between them. I suggested searching to see if any of the tracks grow in length between pictures of the same area. If Robin's theories are correct, the features do not grow at the ends. If my theory is correct, you should be able to find at least one track that does so. Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 14:22:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA20373; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:18:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:18:33 -0700 Message-ID: <33B18755.4692 keelynet.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:02:13 -0700 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: M-waves References: <19970625051448.AAA2197 LOCALNAME> <33B14F5A.661E@skylink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rkk9d3.0.F-4.eiOip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8689 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gnorts Vorts! An interesting URL claiming the detection of something called M-waves that have all kinds of applications...check it out at; http://www.chatlink.com/~oedphd/article.html -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 14:45:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA23964; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:36:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:36:26 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:36:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706252136.QAA17339 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: useful quote Resent-Message-ID: <"KIjB_1.0.Ls5.PzOip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8690 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Man has been pursuing perpetual motion for a long time. The first recorded attempt to construct a perpetual motion machine was that of Villard De Honnecourt a 13th century architect who described an "overbalanced wheel" machine. By the 1800's, perpetual motion was a mature field of study which naturally had its share of detractors. A civil engineer, Henry Dircks (1806-73), summed up the investigators thusly: "A more self-willed, self-satisfied, or self-deluded class of the community, making at the same time pretension to a superior knowledge, it would be impossible to imagine. They hope against hope, scorning all opposition, with ridiculous vehemence, although centuries have not advanced them one step in the way of progress." - from the 1970 Britannica article on Perpetual Motion Scott From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 14:52:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA27340; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:46:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:46:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: 25 Jun 97 17:42:38 EDT From: Gene <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: VORTEX Subject: CF on TV in Tacoma Message-ID: <970625214238_76570.2270_FHU48-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"Iv4LB3.0.2h6.I6Pip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8691 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Tacoma Washington-area Vortexians: I just received word from a new subscriber that today (Wednesday 6/25 -- 5:00 pm Pacific Time) on the local TV news channel ABC-TV affiliate in Tacoma, Washington (KOMO) there will be ome kind of CF coverage. Please check it out. If it is good and you have video tape of it, Infinite Energy would like to receive a copy. Perhaps this may have something to do with Dr. Olson's verification efforts on the CETI remediation process? Best wishes, Gene Mallove From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 16:42:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA19466; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:31:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:31:39 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:31:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: protech mail.frii.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: protech frii.com (R. Wormus) Subject: Re: an engineer's nightmare Resent-Message-ID: <"WWg5I3.0.0m4.QfQip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8692 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Vortexians, Dr. Gluck clearly delineates an approach to the reproducibility problem in CF experiments: >My opinion was and is that all these misfortunes happen just >because only a very small fraction of the surface (typically >0.01-0.1%) is active, being the very locus where the heat releasing >processes take place. In essence, any CF system has two choices; >to be catalytic or dead. All the methods used to choose or to >treat the cathodes are targeting the global properties of the >materials which are not directly correlated to the relevant local >structures--active sites. It is almost impossible to generate the >necessary high number of such sites on the surface of a bulky >cathode> So: Maximize the cathode surface area available for the reaction. Have any experiments been conducted using "Nano Phase" metals or mixtures thereof for the cathode? See: "Creating Nano Phase Materials", Richard W. Siegal, Scientific American 12-96. It seems to me that use of this material would maximize the surface to volume ratio available for reaction, provide a high porosity for easy loading and might be an effective catalyst for the CF reaction. Am I missing an obvious reason why these materials are not considered viable? As Dr. Gluck points out for progress to be forth coming, > reproducibility MUST have a logical, cause-effect explanation. It seems that it is time to try something different. Sincerely, Ron Wormus From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 16:47:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA22750; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:45:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:45:15 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:45:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706252345.SAA29797 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com, VORTEX From: Scott Little Subject: Re: CF on TV in Tacoma Resent-Message-ID: <"AkXkl.0.NZ5.AsQip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8693 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 05:42 PM 6/25/97 EDT, Gene wrote: >there will be ome kind of CF coverage. >Perhaps this may have >something to do with Dr. Olson's verification efforts on the CETI >remediation process? My apologies, Gene, if this is already generally known: Who is Dr. Olson? What organization is he associated with? Has he obtained any results yet? Thanks Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 18:12:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA09984; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:11:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:11:00 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Palladium Sols Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 01:10:46 +0000 Message-ID: <19970626011043.AAA23840 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"T9F-V2.0.wR2.Z6Sip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8696 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Vortex: Along the line of Palladium Black, millimicron-sized water suspensions or sols, can be made by running the *Bredig Arc* between palladium electrodes in water. The arc is ran at 5 to 10 amperes with a 30 to 40 volt D.C. power supply. I have used the "Gold Sols" prepared in this way, they have a beautiful ruby red color, and are used in medicine for spinal injections. Don't know if they will form the oxides,but, will be easily reduced by hydrogen if they do. If there is a water (or even oil) working fluid, Electrical Discharge Machining (EDM) service around, these can be set up to do this. It is my understanding that this spark machining process can produce water or oil filled "microballoons" when ran at the right pulse rates and currents. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 18:27:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA12303; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:23:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:23:17 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:23:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Martin Sevior To: VORTEX Subject: Re: CF on TV in Tacoma In-Reply-To: <970625214238_76570.2270_FHU48-1 CompuServe.COM> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2xRKF2.0.703.4ISip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8697 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry, just missed it. Martin Sevior On 25 Jun 1997, Gene wrote: > Tacoma Washington-area Vortexians: > > > I just received word from a new subscriber that today (Wednesday 6/25 -- > 5:00 pm Pacific Time) on the local TV news channel ABC-TV affiliate in > Tacoma, Washington (KOMO) there will be ome kind of CF coverage. > > Please check it out. If it is good and you have video tape of it, > Infinite Energy would like to receive a copy. Perhaps this may have > something to do with Dr. Olson's verification efforts on the CETI > remediation process? > > Best wishes, > > > Gene Mallove > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 20:08:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA01426; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:06:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:06:53 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:06:43 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970626110706.341fa3a8 po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8 po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: mpower consultants Subject: Re: useful quote Resent-Message-ID: <"BT-1P.0.9M.CpTip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8698 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > >"A more self-willed, self-satisfied, or self-deluded class of the community, >making at the same time pretension to a superior knowledge, it would be >impossible to imagine. They hope against hope, scorning all opposition, >with ridiculous vehemence, although centuries have not advanced them one >step in the way of progress." > Certainly an apt description of the Hot Fusion research efforts... MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM * http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 * (-latest update: 1997.06.25.12:30-) ***************************************************** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 20:36:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA07711; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:26:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:26:45 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33B1E161.89D math.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:26:25 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: useful quote References: <199706252136.QAA17339 natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Iq3W4.0.Gu1.p5Uip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8699 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > A civil engineer, Henry Dircks (1806-73), summed up the > perpetual motion investigators thusly: > > "A more self-willed, self-satisfied, or self-deluded class > of the community, ...it would be impossible to imagine. A wonderful quote, Scott. I'm also sure that the proponents of the time would have labeled Dircks close-minded, pathologically skeptical, etc, etc. The nice thing about history is that we can render some degree of judgement---Dircks was essentially right, since ~150 years have passed and there is still no pertuum mobile. The group of people I would apply Dircks quote to today are those who are sure over "over unity" devices exist, yet are for whatever reason unable to actually exhibit such a device in a timely fashion---the point being that in the absence of such an exhibition, such believe cannot be well founded. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 20:56:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA26489; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:51:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:51:02 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Europa Image -- AC Clarke Request Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 03:49:24 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <33b1e575.16719546 mail.eisa.net.au> References: <3.0.1.32.19970623174008.00944780 spectre.mitre.org> <3.0.1.32.19970623174008.00944780@spectre.mitre.org> <3.0.1.32.19970625171609.009db640@spectre.mitre.org> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970625171609.009db640 spectre.mitre.org> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5iUj51.0.mT6.WSUip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8700 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:16:09 -0400, Robert I. Eachus wrote: [snip] > Actually I didn't write anything in Robin's message, but these are Sorry about that. Sometimes I snip wildly, and forget to include the "[snip]". Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 17:59:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA05756; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:52:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:52:22 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:52:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706260052.RAA04978 guilder.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szdanq peseta.ucdavis.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l eskimo.com From: Dan Quickert Subject: SMOT - minor ideas 1 Resent-Message-ID: <"HIR1e3.0.fP1.2rRip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8695 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: If you're using steel pins on the inner face of your magnet arrays to hold them in place, try using round wooden toothpicks instead. They don't distort the mag field, and they're easier to lock in place after adjustments. You can use a thin piece of wood between the toothpicks and the magnets; once you get things roughly adjusted the wood can be glued to the toothpicks without moving them; you can then glue the wood supports to the base to make the setup very solid. Painful experience prompts me to add the suggestion to cut the toothpicks in half, so there is only one pointy end. Dan From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jun 25 18:00:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA27805; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706260052.RAA04920 guilder.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szdanq peseta.ucdavis.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_867286266==_" To: freenrg-l eskimo.com From: Dan Quickert Subject: SMOT - minor ideas 2 X-Attachments: D:\PER\EXITRAD.GIF; Resent-Message-ID: <"g-fg81.0.Eo6.lrRip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8694 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --=====================_867286266==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've found that 'radiusing' the bottom of the exit channel makes for rather inflexible exit parameters. With a 'cookbook' design like the SMOT Mark II, this may not be a problem, but while experimenting it is a severe limitation. I want to be able to adjust the height of the exiting radius. I get better exits when the *receiving* track has a little ramp on its start, where it catches the ball. That way no matter what the height of the ramp, the ball always can drop a maximum distance before being disturbed from its drop. If you're using aluminum channel, an important factor is to smoothly match the surface of the receiving curve to the ramp endface. (A crude but flexible and effective way to do this is to use a small piece of wider channel to link the ramp and exit track. The wider channel may or may not be radiused). Attached is a simple GIF picture of both methods. If using N-guage railroad track, the receiving track is bent upward. Splay its rails outward a bit at the top. The ramp's downward exit track now fits inside of it to allow better track coupling at any height. Sorry, couldn't figure a good way to draw that one, I'm not much of an artist. 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vYSOPmPwdP30385b6vv+8q8mP6uvJktppX7rvFtJ+DgK0KSdOXrQj9zDnndx6d26RuMvfm6mv3nV Meem3h9u7DrHMvfjDntwsl33mV/M42l5/x5zvv/+/z8ABqAADiABFqABHiACJqACLiADNqADPmDx qN2hgNpZAZeQDd6AZVgeoZiz5R9OGc65IZKOvZionZkosQeUxdkXlYijER+TuRjEfVqCONoftdaW WNnnDN+F+Zwo+d2BNR0QxuAJrpm6BZ5PKDzaKY1I9lUYm1mb0VEb+JlRAl7eLi3ZD0IgFmahFm4h F3ahF34hGIahGI4hGZahGZ4hGqahGq4hG3JGQAAAOw== --=====================_867286266==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" --=====================_867286266==_-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 00:37:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA25275; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:32:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:32:13 -0700 (PDT) From: JNaudin509 aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 03:05:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970626030501_743451869 emout15.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: gwatson microtronics.com.au Subject: Re : SMOT Kit update Resent-Message-ID: <"99XGn3.0.hA6.ohXip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8701 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 25/06/1997 12:51:41 , Greg Watson wrote : << I have frozen the SMOT kits at Mk2 level. I expect the perspex bases to be delivered by late this week or early next week. ...... Therefore, I expect to start shipping kits in about 2 weeks. Sorry for the delay, but I know you understand how important it is for everything to be correct. -- Best Regards, Greg>> Hi Greg, When you should able to show the pictures/Videos of your SMOTs running in closed loop ? I think that this action will be help all SMOTs experimenters to find the good way in the testing phase. Jean-Louis Naudin From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 01:10:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA02253; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: 25 Jun 97 09:21:45 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Test message Message-ID: <970625132144_72240.1256_EHB85-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"kKrhG3.0.6Z.O5Yip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8702 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A To: Vortex Can't seem to send anything to Vortex or AOL . . . CompuServe must be screwed up. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 01:17:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA30172; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 01:07:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 01:07:45 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:26:06 GMT From: "Peter Glueck" Message-ID: <33b21996.itim itim.org.soroscj.ro> To: "vortex" Cc: "Peter Glueck" Subject: An engineer's nightmare Resent-Message-ID: <"o0AjJ.0.KN7.GDYip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8703 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vortexers, a) Ron Wormus is advocating the use of 'nano-phase' materials in CF experiments. I think he is right; see for example the data of the Reifenschweiler experiment, demonstrating the capability of ultra-fine particles of titanium to change the radioactivity of impregnated tritium. b) Some activity is seen at web-sites of interest; CETI is in re-construction; Raum-Quanten-Motoren claims a successful o/u demonstration (independent) and a coming international press conference. What about the Cincinnati Group's new web-site? Best wishes to you all, Peter -- dr. Peter Gluck Institute of Isotopic and Molecular Technology Fax:064-420042 Cluj-Napoca, str. Donath 65-103, P.O.Box 700 Tel:064-184037/144 Cluj 5, 3400 Romania Home: 064-174976 E-mail: peter itim.org.soroscj.ro , peterg@oc1.itim-cj.ro From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 03:58:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA26869; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 03:47:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 03:47:51 -0700 From: rvanspaa eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Cassimir revisited Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:47:39 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <33b30db8.27028477 mail.eisa.net.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oNEWM2.0.lZ6.MZaip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8705 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Question for Hal, At what separation would the Cassimir force between two protons exceed the electrostatic repulsion? Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 04:06:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA27678; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 04:00:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 04:00:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 03:59:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Barry Merriman Message-Id: <199706261059.DAA17741 moebius.math.ucla.edu> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cassimir revisited Resent-Message-ID: <"xE3GL3.0.Om6.Vlaip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8706 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin asks: At what separation would the Cassimir force between two protons exceed the electrostatic repulsion? --- If I recall, the Casimir force between two spheres (conducting spheres) is *repulsive*, so if a proton is a "conductor", casimir will never push them together. If a proton is a dielectric, then maybe... But, by geometric similarity, we knwo that in any case the answer for the critical separation must be approx the radius of the proton (since that is the only length scale in the problem), and this is also the separation needed for ordinary fusion---which implies the protons in question would need energies of ~ 1MeV to get that close together in the first place. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 04:34:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA00534; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 04:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 04:31:48 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cassimir revisited Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:30:36 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <33b55295.44659800 mail.eisa.net.au> References: <199706261059.DAA17741 moebius.math.ucla.edu> In-Reply-To: <199706261059.DAA17741 moebius.math.ucla.edu> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PRMTd1.0.G8.WCbip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8707 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 26 Jun 1997 03:59:44 -0700 (PDT), Barry Merriman wrote: >Robin asks: > >At what separation would the Cassimir force between two protons exceed >the electrostatic repulsion? >--- > >If I recall, the Casimir force between two spheres >(conducting spheres) is *repulsive*, so if a >proton is a "conductor", casimir will never push >them together. If a proton is a dielectric, then >maybe... > >But, by geometric similarity, we knwo that in any case >the answer for the critical separation must be approx >the radius of the proton (since that is the only length scale >in the problem), and this is also the separation needed >for ordinary fusion---which implies the protons in question >would need energies of ~ 1MeV to get that close together >in the first place. > Thank you Barry, just trying to indirectly suggest that perhaps the nuclear force and the Cassimir force are one and the same thing :). Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 05:46:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA06283; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 05:42:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 05:42:01 -0700 Date: 26 Jun 97 08:41:05 EDT From: Gene <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: VORTEX Subject: Re: CF on TV in Tacoma Message-ID: <970626124105_76570.2270_FHU40-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"MBh4q.0.0Y1.OEcip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8708 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >>there will be ome kind of CF coverage. > >>Perhaps this may have >>something to do with Dr. Olson's verification efforts on the CETI >>remediation process? > >My apologies, Gene, if this is already generally known: Who is Dr. Olson? >What organization is he associated with? Has he obtained any results yet? > >Thanks It is metallurgist Dr. Norman Olson at Hanford, Washington, who was on the Good Morning America program, who apparently was happy with what he saw during his stay in Sarasota. He is now back at Hanford carrying out verification of the CETI processs. Though under intense opposition, Olson apparently has the clout to carry through. Obviously if he manages to force DOE to eat crow on this, it will also ultimately force DOE to eat crow on CF excess energy. You can't have one without the other. All does not depend on CETI, however. There are other groups vith very good results -- data to be presented exhaustively in IE#13/14 -- 120-page Special Double issue coming out later this summer. Gene ************** Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief Infinite Energy Magazine Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. PO Box 2816 Concord, NH 03302 Phone: 603-228-4516 Fax: 603-224-5975 76570.2270 compuserve.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 06:18:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA11383; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 06:14:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 06:14:03 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:10:41 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex , John Schnurer Subject: Propulsion ... Magnetic pulses...Crunchy Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"c51RD3.0.mn2.Qicip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8709 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., Magnetic Pulse Propulsion MPP There seems to be at least a little interest in MPP. The work of Rex Schlicher, US PTO # 5,142,861 is interesting for at least a few reasons. a] it was not just patented, it was reduced to practice b] the theory and practice agree c] it is not too hard to rig up replication Another interesting element, to me anyway, regards magnetism in the respect of a set of statements 1] Kelvin, 1904 "The Magnetic rotation has neither left-handed nor right-handed quality (that is to say, no chirality)." 2] P. Curie, 1894, reasons otherwise. To see bits of both sides, Science, Vol. 266 Dec.,2,1994 pp 1491, Laurence D. Barron, "Can a Magnetic Field Induce Absolute Asymmetric Synthesis?". One slightly "crunchy" way to try to get there: My position has always been to do the work, hands on, if at all possible. Sometimes the hardware is tough to get, simply obscure or a hassle to go through the acquisition process. I often wished I had a savvy purchasing agent, who would "walk through the weeds" for me. Weeds: For some years electronics engineers I worked with would describe waveforms as seen on an oscilloscope in an attempt to come to some kind of 'short hand' making it easier to verbalize the observed behavior. An example would be one fellow in the cab of a motion simulator trying to quiet the connections' path to a low noise amplifier. Usually the fellow in the motion simulator, who is twisting left and right as the simulator is being "exercised" cannot see the oscilloscope. The fellow on the floor base of the facility can see it fine. The floor guy would call out .... "nice and smooth" or " looks a little crunchy" .... crunchy being roughly equivalent to NASA's Garner's "unfortunate waveform". A slightly crunchy site to get stuff from is www.dodads.com. It is new, there are typos, but at least one people there can find almost anything in the physics, hardware, electronics domains. Another is a botany type ... and so on. So if you don't care about 'slick' looking text and page, go there, send a letter and tell them what you need. They can get most of the hardware to do Rex S. patent. I know this becasue I do some part time finding for them. JHS From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 06:30:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA13832; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 06:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 06:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:20:56 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com, John Schnurer Subject: Re: Palladium Sols In-Reply-To: <19970626011043.AAA23840 LOCALNAME> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ps_-P1.0.2O3.sscip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8710 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 26 Jun 1997, Frederick J. Sparber wrote: > To Vortex: > > Along the line of Palladium Black, millimicron-sized water suspensions > or sols, can be made by running the *Bredig Arc* between palladium > electrodes in water. > > The arc is ran at 5 to 10 amperes with a 30 to 40 volt D.C. power > supply. If the idea is to have large surface area of the material, ie, Pd, Ni and so on, a stable carrier I have seen is porous high purity Alumina wafers saturated with organic or halogen salts solution of the metal. The wafer is then dried, baked. > > I have used the "Gold Sols" prepared in this way, they have a beautiful > ruby red color, and are used in medicine for spinal injections. > > Don't know if they will form the oxides,but, will be easily reduced by > hydrogen if they do. > > If there is a water (or even oil) working fluid, > Electrical Discharge Machining (EDM) service around, these can be set > up to do this. > > It is my understanding that this spark machining process can produce > water or oil filled "microballoons" when ran at the right pulse rates > and currents. > > Regards, Frederick > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 06:59:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA20097; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 06:54:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 06:54:58 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 06:54:56 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Test message (vortex problem) In-Reply-To: <970625132144_72240.1256_EHB85-1 CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_iwra1.0.xv4.oIdip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8711 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 25 Jun 1997, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Can't seem to send anything to Vortex or AOL . . . CompuServe must be screwed > up. In the last few days Eskimo Inc. has added a new mail router, and discovered unexpected bugs. This is probably the origin of difficulties. Mail is alive, but slow and spotty. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 07:27:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA20603; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: 26 Jun 97 10:17:53 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: SMOT Mk 2 Message-ID: <970626141752_100433.1541_BHG80-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"BKjC82.0.k15.Cidip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8712 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A few comments on the Mk 2 ramps. I got a couple of metres of Peco brand flexible N-gauge track, and was surprised at the quality of the rails. The slip attached to them says they are made of nickel-silver, and certainly they are extremely well finished. They are so tiny that any eddy current losses in them will be very small, and frictional losses should also be much less. I rather wish that the balls were non-conducting. Cutting and soldering the rails is straightforward if a bit finicky. To get the 4mm radius bend after the drop point, I filed away almost the whole rail from below for a length close to 2*pi mm and bent the remaining rail around the shaft of an 8mm drill bit, squeezing it against the rail with pliers and giving the rail surface some protection with foil. One minor problem is that the plastic sleepers interfere with the ball. I took off the rails and filed a scoop out of each sleeper, removing any plastic fuzz (some of it near-invisible but it would slow the ball) with a knife. The rails go back easily enough, so I hope I'll soon be able to try the system live. I have three questions for Greg (and perhaps others). Has he been able to create a roll-around with these ramps yet? There is some apparent confusion on his web site. He says that 10mm will give a very small level rollaway, and that it really needs 12mm - but that 12mm is not easy to achieve. We also would like very much to cover progress on this project in next month's IE magazine, and would like that coverage to be as complete as possible. At present, there really is only a limited amount we could say about it, and it doesn't seem likely that within the next three weeks (to our deadline) we would get any kits from Greg and have time to get them working - unless Greg can help out here. So, we would like to see any reliable rollarounds that anyone has to show us - within reasonable travelling distance of NH or Atlanta, or in England. Failing that, a good videotape. If of course my effectively exact replication, which differs only in the size, 12.5mm as against 12mm, of the ball and possibly in the strength of the magnets, works OK... Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 07:57:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA26023; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:55:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:55:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Palladium Sols Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:53:37 +0000 Message-ID: <19970626145335.AAA6154 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"bkBLW1.0.WM6.EBeip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8713 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:20 PM 6/26/97 +0000, John Schnurer wrote: > > >On Thu, 26 Jun 1997, Frederick J. Sparber wrote: > >> To Vortex: >> >> Along the line of Palladium Black, millimicron-sized water suspensions >> or sols, can be made by running the *Bredig Arc* between palladium >> electrodes in water. >> >> The arc is ran at 5 to 10 amperes with a 30 to 40 volt D.C. power >> supply. > > > If the idea is to have large surface area of the material, ie, >Pd, Ni and so on, a stable carrier I have seen is porous high purity >Alumina wafers saturated with organic or halogen salts solution of the >metal. The wafer is then dried, baked. > True John, you can buy these types of supported catalysts from suppliers like United Catalyst Co. in Louisville Kentucky. However the Water Sols can be dried to provide the nanometer sized "Nano Phase" material in the metallic form so that it is electrically conductive when placed in a suitable metal "basket". Regards, Frederick >> >> I have used the "Gold Sols" prepared in this way, they have a beautiful >> ruby red color, and are used in medicine for spinal injections. >> >> Don't know if they will form the oxides,but, will be easily reduced by >> hydrogen if they do. >> >> If there is a water (or even oil) working fluid, >> Electrical Discharge Machining (EDM) service around, these can be set >> up to do this. >> >> It is my understanding that this spark machining process can produce >> water or oil filled "microballoons" when ran at the right pulse rates >> and currents. >> >> Regards, Frederick >> >> > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 12:02:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA08384; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:55:50 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:54:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970626145355_-1462181207 emout13.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Fwd: Interesting discovery Resent-Message-ID: <"4u6l63.0.r22.lihip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8714 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Interesting discovery Date: 97-06-25 17:21:33 EDT From: HLafonte To: freenrg-l eskimo.com In doing some research with permanent magnets, I found a very interesting sequence of events. First, draw three lines from a common point, at 120 degrees apart, close to what a Y looks like, then get three magnets. Next, place the magnets at equal points from the center of the Y on the three lines. Space them so that their attraction and repulsion forces are very weak with respect to each other. Put the top two magnets with their north poles facing to the center of the Y , so that they would be in repulsion if they were moved to the center of the Y . Next, put the third magnet's south pole facing to the center of the Y . Now if you move all three magnets at the same speed to the center, they will all be attracted to the center, and the top two will not repell each other. Then if you hold the top two in place and remove the bottom magnet away and then let go of the top two, they repell each other! I am looking at a balance system for each magnet, (each magnet is connected to to a magnet that is working in the opposite with respect to force, repulsion/attraction. This would mean that you could move the three magnets into the center and then remove the bottom magnet away without doing any work to speak of. Then the two magnets on top would be in repulsion with each other and with their balance system.) To better understand the balance system, think of an X turned side ways that has a pivot point in the center. The left side has two magnets working in repulsion, the right side, two in attraction. Now as you move the ends together in a sissors fashion, the forces cancel each other. I have built a fixture like this and it works just fine. There is a little trick to getting the three magnets to pull to the center without the top two trying to repell each other, it has to do with the bottom magnet.Can you guess what it is? I see overunity in this. Your comments or questions, please. Butch LaFonte From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 13:42:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA08923; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:38:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:38:35 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Potassium Transmutation Experiment Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:37:33 +0000 Message-ID: <19970626203731.AAA8096 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"UPe0I1.0.KB2.ADjip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8716 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To Vortex: Given the reports of potassium transmutation in biological environments and the odd deficiency of potassium in the World's ocean as opposed to no such deficiency in constantly recharged "salt lakes", there is an inference that solar radiation may be creating low energy particle pairs, and the negative particle is reacting with a proton or deuteron creating something similar to Mills' proposed "Hydrino" which (if absorbed by the potassium) can effect the transmutation to calcium. A simple experiment that might show this is a water solution of a potassium salt irradiated with a suitable light source. Always wondered what gave "Sun Tea" that extra kick. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 13:45:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA21541; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:31:11 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:31:11 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:24:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970626162415_-1945851427 emout06.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Fwd: Questions from Gene Batten Resent-Message-ID: <"FSspt1.0.AG5.16jip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8715 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Questions from Gene Batten Date: 97-06-26 16:24:17 EDT From: HLafonte To: freenrg-l eskimo.com Gene wrote: Butch LaFonte, Yes, this is very interesting. I think I understand your explanation of the "Y" system. Have you formed an opinion (theory) as to what is happening with the magnets? How much force is required to remove the "bottom" magnet? Is it more, less, or about the same force as if you were removing it from attraction by only one magnet? What I am getting at is do you know if the net "repulsive" force of the system is greater than the net "attractive" force? Said another way, if we performed an "energy balance" on this system, would there be some energy "left over" after a complete cycle? I am not sure I understand what you are illustrating with the "x" reference. Is it possible for you to put this on a web page with graphics? ... Gene Batten mdleb nortel.ca snip > Gene, I am in the process of doing an energy balance study. At this point I see the three magnets working together as if there were only two magnets acting in the attraction mode. Then when the bottom magnet is removed, the remaining magnet "splits" into two magnets in the repulsion mode. This final repulsion should be overunity. I think the flux leaving the uppermost poles of the two magnets on the top of the Y is drawn straight to lower pole of the bottom magnet.This could be what is keeping the two top magnets from repelling each other during the move to the center. I have a lot of research to do still and would appreciate any help. What would be great is if I could get an illustration of the magnetic fields interacting like Greg has on the SMOT. I still have a lot to learn about creating files and sending them on the net. My graphics software is a low cost program called keyCad and I can't get the files to convert like they are suppose to. After I convert them, I can't find them! If you could give me a fax number I could fax you a drawing of the balance system. I will start a web page as soon as possible to illustrate this system. I see a lot of promise in this system. If the top two magnets were replaced with two stators, the collapsing magnetic field around the coil would cause the stators to repel as the bottom magnet was removed. Reply and maybe we can get this to work. Thanks, Butch Note: I got the balance system idea from Bertil Werjefelt, he has used it for years now. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 14:09:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA26773; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:01:06 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: Re: Palladium Sols In-Reply-To: <19970626145335.AAA6154 LOCALNAME> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Mu5-k3.0.EY6.Pcjip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8717 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: .....> > > > > > If the idea is to have large surface area of the material, ie, > >Pd, Ni and so on, a stable carrier I have seen is porous high purity > >Alumina wafers saturated with organic or halogen salts solution of the > >metal. The wafer is then dried, baked. > > > True John, you can buy these types of supported catalysts from suppliers > like United Catalyst Co. in Louisville Kentucky. You cannot buy micor pore, thin wafer, high purity alumina alone on the retail market, that I know of. Pd impregnated material I spoke of the like a filter and the metals are whatever ratios you want, because you have to make it yourself... or hae someone make it for you. However the Water Sols > can be dried to provide the nanometer sized "Nano Phase" material in the > metallic form so that it is electrically conductive when placed in > a suitable metal "basket". > > Regards, Frederick > >> > >> I have used the "Gold Sols" prepared in this way, they have a beautiful > >> ruby red color, and are used in medicine for spinal injections. > >> > >> Don't know if they will form the oxides,but, will be easily reduced by > >> hydrogen if they do. > >> > >> If there is a water (or even oil) working fluid, > >> Electrical Discharge Machining (EDM) service around, these can be set > >> up to do this. > >> > >> It is my understanding that this spark machining process can produce > >> water or oil filled "microballoons" when ran at the right pulse rates > >> and currents. > >> > >> Regards, Frederick > >> > >> > > > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 15:50:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA01269; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:45:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:45:38 -0700 Date: 26 Jun 97 18:43:57 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: In defense of perpetual motion inventors Message-ID: <970626224356_72240.1256_EHB96-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"aV2103.0.iJ.G4lip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8718 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex Henry Dircks, the Britannica, and many cynical people have attacked perpetual motion machine inventors over the centuries. They are a favorite target, along with circle squarers (people who try to find an exact value for pi). Most perpetual motion machine inventors are cranks who deserve censure. They ask for it! I have heard from dozens of them over the years. Sometimes it seem a new one falls out of the woodwork every morning. I know a sure-fire way to get rid of them, which I'll pass on. You say, "That's great! I'll buy one. Send me a video, performance specs, and a price quote for a dozen machines." That's the last you ever hear from them. It even works with difficult cases like Soule. Many cold fusion scientists are also "self-willed, self-satisfied, or self-deluded" with "a pretension to a superior knowledge." They give the field a bad reputation. Yet we must remember that the saner class of perpetual motion machine inventors have contributed a great deal to science. And, for the most part they have succeeded in their quest. By the standards of the past, a $10 quartz wristwatch from Woolworth is almost a perpetual motion machine. It goes far longer with 100 times greater precision than any 18th century watchmaker would have imagined possible. A uranium oxide TEG would be an inexplicable perpetual motion machine to any scientist before 1898. When the Curies isolated radium that year, for a while scientists thought they had uncovered a violation of the conservation of energy. In a sense, they had. Physics had to be re-written to accommodate nuclear reactions, and now we conserve mass-energy, instead of just energy. If Puhoff and Little succeed, the definition will have to be stretched again, to accommodate ZPE. The perpetual motion inventors have contributed to science in a larger sense. They have defined the limits of what is possible, and helped create the science of thermodynamics. They are an example of noble failure, along with the alchemists, who contributed much to what later became chemistry. Modern examples of noble failures include the researchers who are trying to invent artificial intelligence in computers; machine translation; artificial hearts; and longevity beyond the natural span of 80 to 105 years. We do not know if these people will ever succeed, but their research has already contributed more to human welfare and knowledge than it cost. For over a century, Charles Babbage was considered a noble failure at best and a crackpot at worst. I recall a quote from Britannica describing his machine as something mysterious; it said something like "we will never know if it might have worked." Then the computer was invented and his basic ideas were vindicated. Recently some folks in England got together, finished up the mechanical Babbage computer according to his plans, and demonstrated that it works fine. Not only was he right all along, but the government grants he received in the 1830s paid off handsomely even then, because he improved the state of the art in precision machine tools. Cutting him off in the 1842s was short-sighted folly. It would be closing down the MIT artificial intelligence labs today just because computers don't talk like the HAL 9000. If, by some chance, the SMOT device turns out to be real, and it is widely replicated, then of course we will all have to admit that the magnet perpetual motion machine men were right all along, just as Baggage was, and we should have listened to them. That will almost make *us* the crackpots, for not listening. But we should be forgiven. Most of the Magnet Men are unreasonable, tiresome, irksome, INFURIATING people, almost as bad as Babbage himself -- a notorious jerk. Frankly, if the SMOT succeeds and the Magnet Men are vindicated, I'll vote myself part of the honors just for putting up with them and listening to them half the time. 85% of the credit will go to Greg Watson, for Inventiveness & Sanity -- a rare combination. 14.9% will go to the people here who are trying to replicate Greg with dedication in the face of adversity that I can well appreciate (having built an almost-SMOT). And 0.1% of the credit will go to people like me for cheering from the sidelines. In the final analysis I would not vote Soule, Newman and the other Magnet Met even 0.0% of the credit. Their behavior has been so atrocious, their actions so counterproductive, that they have probably delayed the introduction of this technology more than they ever contributed to it. I would say the same about many cold fusion scientists, without hesitation. It is NEVER enough to invent something. You must also give it to the world, preferably in exchange for a large pile of money. Babbage, for all his faults, published, demonstrated, and helped improve machine tools. There are many examples of scientific projects that are either large scale noble failures, or out-of-control crackpot boondoggles, depending on your point of view. The most notorious examples are the hot fusion program and the supercollider. Many people think the space race was a ridiculous waste of money. A connoisseur of irony will enjoy seeing such people espousing anti-government, anti-technology views on CNN talk shows broadcast by satellite. Many live in places like Florida, where they would sometimes be in grave danger were it not for reliable satellite weather forecasts of hurricanes . . . On the other hand, NASA insider Chaisson describes the Hubble telescope as a grand fiasco in his book "The Hubble Wars." I think that most cancer research has been a noble failure. Real survival rates for most kinds of cancer have not improved. (Some, like pediatric leukemia, have been cured.) The statistics look good because they are deceptively padded. Patients "live longer" with cancer only because the doctors can diagnose the disease 5 or 10 years earlier than they used to. They have developed marvelous diagnostics and detection techniques, but they can do nothing to slow down or reverse the disease itself. Patients must now live for years with the knowledge that they are doomed, whereas when my great-grandfather died of cancer in 1928, he only had to live with the knowledge and the pain for five months. I would like to mention one more class of eminently successful, scientifically respectable, perpetual motion machine men: a group of leading cosmologists, especially Freeman Dyson, who have challenged entropy itself. In his book "Infinite in all Directions," in the chapter "How will it all End?" on page 114, he describes in non-technical terms the conclusions of a formal physics paper he wrote: (1) Does the universe freeze into a state of permanent physical quiescent as it expands and cools? (2) Is it possible for life and intelligence to survive forever? (3) Is it possible to maintain communication and transmit information across the constantly expanding distances between the galaxies? Tentatively, I answer these three questions with a no, a yes and a maybe . . . Such wild ideas are perfectly acceptable in mainstream science, so long as they have no practical application and there is no way to test them. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 16:06:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA13159; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:57:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:57:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199706261059.DAA17741 moebius.math.ucla.edu> References: Conversation <199706261059.DAA17741 moebius.math.ucla.edu> with last message <199706261059.DAA17741@moebius.math.ucla.edu> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Richard Olson" Subject: Re: Cassimir revisited Date: Fri, 27 Jun 97 18:07:58 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vq5Aw2.0.XD3.cFlip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8719 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > > Robin asks: > > At what separation would the Cassimir force between two protons exceed > the electrostatic repulsion? > --- > > If I recall, the Casimir force between two spheres > (conducting spheres) is *repulsive*, so if a > proton is a "conductor", casimir will never push > them together. If a proton is a dielectric, then > maybe... Good point, but do protons behave as if they are spherical? How are the quarks arranged within the proton itsself? And since the proton has charge, it seems like we could say that a free proton is a conductor. However, we might be able to call a "fixed" proton a non-conductor, since an electric field can't perform any work on it. I don't know where this gets us, but perhaps Robin has something comparing the Cassimir force to nuclear forces. On the other hand, how a neutron would respond to the Cassimir force is beyond me (like lots of stuff). > But, by geometric similarity, we knwo that in any case > the answer for the critical separation must be approx > the radius of the proton (since that is the only length scale > in the problem), and this is also the separation needed > for ordinary fusion---which implies the protons in question > would need energies of ~ 1MeV to get that close together > in the first place. Sounds logical to me! JAY OLSON From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 16:12:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA13901; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: 26 Jun 97 19:01:22 EDT From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Mail Subject: Re: Test message Message-ID: <970626230121_100060.173_JHB67-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"eZMXN.0.7P3.mKlip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8720 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed, >> CompuServe must be screwed up. - Jed << I've had seemingly lost forum msgs lately, but it looks as if it has cleared in the last 24 hrs. CSi are in a flap with their systems and expansion and we must expect frustration, if not castration for some time to come I understand. Norman From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 16:21:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA11322; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:18:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:18:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:17:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706262317.SAA16898 dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Re: In defense of perpetual motion inventors To: vortex-l eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"cypav.0.nm2.wYlip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8722 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A Jed wrote: snip > I think that most >cancer research has been a noble failure. Real survival rates for most kinds >of cancer have not improved. (Some, like pediatric leukemia, have been cured.) >The statistics look good because they are deceptively padded. Patients "live >longer" with cancer only because the doctors can diagnose the disease 5 or 10 >years earlier than they used to. They have developed marvelous diagnostics and >detection techniques, but they can do nothing to slow down or reverse the >disease itself. Patients must now live for years with the knowledge that they >are doomed, whereas when my great-grandfather died of cancer in 1928, he only >had to live with the knowledge and the pain for five months. snip >- Jed Folks, all I have to say is this is absolute bullshit. I'm afraid Jed is the the "crackpot" in his medical opinions. It really gives me pause to consider all of his pontifications in the rest of his chosen fields of expertise. Please beware. RWW From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 16:22:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA06119; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:12:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:12:05 -0700 Message-ID: <33B2F643.DD7B3A3B microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:37:47 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Vortex Subject: [Fwd: New theory article uploaded supporting SMOT and RMOD !] X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------BABBC1B01A2AE65AFA30B11E" Resent-Message-ID: <"qrtIo3.0.XV1.4Tlip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8721 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BABBC1B01A2AE65AFA30B11E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Vortexians, Thought you might want to check this out. Good reading. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ --------------BABBC1B01A2AE65AFA30B11E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mx2.eskimo.com (smartlst mx2.eskimo.com [204.122.16.49]) by orca.microtronics.com.au (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA10358 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 03:12:52 +0930 (CST) Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA21124; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:27:16 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199706261727.TAA18094 mail.bbtt.de> X-Sender: harti shell2.ba.best.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l eskimo.com From: harti bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: New theory article uploaded supporting SMOT and RMOD ! Resent-Message-ID: <"B1mBh.0.g95.iNgip" mx2> Resent-From: freenrg-l eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3996 X-Loop: freenrg-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request eskimo.com There is a new, revised and enlarged version about permanent magnet motors on my server at www.overunity.de/theory.htm written by Dipl. Physisist Dieter Bauer. It is shown that coupled cog wheels show non-conservation of angular momentum but conservation of energy. (This is contrary to the first version which stated the contrary erroneously.) Furthermore, it is shown that conservative asymetric rachet potentials can generate non-conservative force fields if coupled to a non constant charge. This model can be applied to Greg Watson's SMOT and RMOD perpetuum mobile devices where the magnetic field density can be regarded as the potential and the changing non-linear permeability of the iron in the field represents the charge. Regards, Stefan Hartmann -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 49 30-345 00 498 email: harti harti.com Web site: http://www.harti.com --------------BABBC1B01A2AE65AFA30B11E-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 16:42:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA15939; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:37:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:37:00 -0700 From: Chuck Davis To: Richard Wayne Wall Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:34:01 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199706262317.SAA16898 dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: YAM 1.3.4 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck Organization: ROSHI Corporation Subject: Re: In defense of perpetual motion inventors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"QYPJl.0.zu3.Qqlip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8723 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 26-Jun-97, Richard Wayne Wall wrote: >Folks, all I have to say is this is absolute bullshit. I'm afraid Jed >is the the "crackpot" in his medical opinions. It really gives me >pause to consider all of his pontifications in the rest of his chosen >fields of expertise. Please beware. >RWW Aw man, you just triggered him into two more pages of bull$#!+ :( -- .-. .-. / \ .-. .-. / \ / \ / \ .-. _ .-. / \ / \ -/--Chuck Davis -------\-----/---\---/-\---/---\-----/-----\-------/-------\-- RoshiCorp ROSHI.com \ / \_/ `-' \ / \ / \ / `-' `-' \ / `-' `-' www.his.com/~emerald7/roshi.cmp/roshi.html From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 17:32:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA23842; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:18:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:18:08 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:16:12 -0600 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: In defense of perpetual motion inventors Resent-Message-ID: <"AzG4o3.0.Nq5._Qmip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8724 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Jed Rothwell writes: > >Henry Dircks, the Britannica, and many cynical people have attacked perpetual >motion machine inventors over the centuries. They are a favorite target, along >with circle squarers (people who try to find an exact value for pi). Most >perpetual motion machine inventors are cranks who deserve censure. They ask >for it! I have heard from dozens of them over the years. Sometimes it seem a >new one falls out of the woodwork every morning. I know a sure-fire way to get >rid of them, which I'll pass on. You say, "That's great! I'll buy one. Send me >a video, performance specs, and a price quote for a dozen machines." That's >the last you ever hear from them. It even works with difficult cases like >Soule'. Many cold fusion scientists are also "self-willed, self-satisfied, or >self-deluded" with "a pretension to a superior knowledge." They give the field >a bad reputation. Dear Mr. Rothwell, Ah, yes...... and to think I was quietly minding my own business, enjoying a number of posts on this List, ...when ...out of the blue ...drops ... "The Insulting Man." :-) However, endeavoring to assume that you are being polite, I will further assume that your initiated description of me as a "difficult case" is meant as a compliment. If it is intended as something other than a compliment, I would suggest that we take it to private email so as not to embark upon a public dispute (for the sake of the other List members) should you wish to clarify it further (if it is other than a compliment). If you do not wish to clarify it further then I will endeavor to assume that it is a compliment. I do not know what either myself and/or Joseph Newman have to do with this particular "thread" since the title above: "In defense of perpetual motion inventors" is totally unrelated to Joseph Newman's work. As I presume you realize, 1) his work is not "perpetual motion," and 2) he has never claimed it is "perpetual motion." I fail to understand why you choose to believe that your above quoted sentences ["That's great! ..... for a dozen machines."] has "worked" with me --- whatever this means --- but you are certainly entitled to believe whatever opinion you choose..... "right" or "wrong" (in my opinion). And since you have chosen to introduce this aspect of this thread, I will state that Joseph Newman is indeed working on commercial production of his technology. When it is commercially produced, I rather doubt that any sales pitch consisting of sending you "a video" will be necessary. Performance specs and price quotes will be available to all interested customers --- yourself included. > >Yet we must remember that the saner class of perpetual motion machine >inventors have contributed a great deal to science. And, for the most part >they have succeeded in their quest. By the standards of the past, a $10 quartz snip--- > >If, by some chance, the SMOT device turns out to be real, and it is widely >replicated, then of course we will all have to admit that the magnet perpetual >motion machine men were right all along, just as Baggage was, and we should >have listened to them. That will almost make *us* the crackpots, for not >listening. But we should be forgiven. Most of the Magnet Men are unreasonable, >tiresome, irksome, INFURIATING people, almost as bad as Babbage himself -- a >notorious jerk. Frankly, if the SMOT succeeds and the Magnet Men are >vindicated, I'll vote myself part of the honors just for putting up with them >and listening to them half the time. 85% of the credit will go to Greg Watson, >for Inventiveness & Sanity -- a rare combination. 14.9% will go to the people >here who are trying to replicate Greg with dedication in the face of adversity >that I can well appreciate (having built an almost-SMOT). And 0.1% of the >credit will go to people like me for cheering from the sidelines. In the final >analysis I would not vote Soule', Newman and the other Magnet Met even 0.0% of >the credit. Their behavior has been so atrocious, their actions so >counterproductive, that they have probably delayed the introduction of this >technology more than they ever contributed to it. I would say the same about >many cold fusion scientists, without hesitation. It is NEVER enough to invent >something. You must also give it to the world, preferably in exchange for a >large pile of money. Babbage, for all his faults, published, demonstrated, and >helped improve machine tools. snip--- >Jed Having now had the opportunity to read your post a bit further (I generally prefer to answer as I read), I would postulate that your opinion, "their behavior has been so atrocious" is possibily intended as something other than a compliment towards myself and Joseph Newman. Assuming this to be the case, I will reply by stating that by a curious coincidence [:-)] I _also_ consider your behavior to be atrocious and juvenile. I have never initiated either insults, ridicule, sarcasm, or profanity on this List, yet you indulge in several. I would suggest your examine yourself for an operational example of "atrocious behavior." In fact, because you choose to 'award' myself, Joseph Newman, etc., "0.0% of the credit" --- coming from you, I take this 'award' (negative statement) as a high compliment since I have such a negative opinion regarding your "atrocious behavior." It is especially curious and ironic that you chose the SMOT example. >From the beginning, Joseph Newman only wanted a patent. A patent whose issuance would be of no expense to the taxpayer other than the cost of ink and printing of the federal documents --- paid in measure by the patent fees of the Applicant. But because of the "atrocious behavior" of such incompetents as Duggan (at the Patent Office) and Hebner (at the NBS -- and, while I have not myself seen the Special, I believe Hebner may be featured on the upcoming Special on the A & E Network this Sunday evening), Joseph Newman has had to fight for what he believes is right. If you have a problem with this, Mr. Rothwell, then the property (of this problem) is all yours. There is so much of which you are totally unaware, that I shall state that I can (partially) excuse your demonstrably "atrocious behavior" on the basis of your ignorance. Gyroscopically yours, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html "The day when we shall know exactly what electricity is, will chronicle an event probably greater than any other recorded in the human race." --- NIKOLA TESLA From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 17:39:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA25151; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33B304ED.10B69467 microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:40:21 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: Butch LaFonte's BigY X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AjiTS2.0.u86.tYmip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8725 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HI All, I have completed a QF sim of Butch's idea. http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/lafonte.html Its also in my links page. I am working on a animated Gif. Look like the good old "Blue Hole" is at work again. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 17:47:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA29961; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:41:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:41:19 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970626203658.007f4d70 inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:37:00 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: In defense of perpetual motion inventors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"U7slw1.0.3K7.kmmip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8726 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 04:34 PM 6/26/97 -0700, you-all wrote: >On 26-Jun-97, Richard Wayne Wall wrote: > >> I'm afraid Jed >>is the the "crackpot" in his medical opinions. It really gives me >>pause to consider all of his pontifications in the rest of his chosen >>fields of expertise. Please beware. >>RWW > > Aw man, you just triggered him into two more pages of bull$#!+ :( >-/--Chuck Davis --- So obviously he hasn't kept abreast of life saving alternative medical techniques (a very hot topic among "some"), but you have to admit that the rest of it was beautifully written. Colin Quinney From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 18:08:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA29979; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970626205643.00711898 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:56:43 +0000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: In defense of perpetual motion inventors In-Reply-To: <970626224356_72240.1256_EHB96-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qq4D_1.0.LK7.31nip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8727 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 06:43 PM 6/26/97 EDT, Jed wrote: >To: Vortex > >The statistics look good because they are deceptively padded. Patients "live >longer" with cancer only because the doctors can diagnose the disease 5 or 10 >years earlier than they used to. They have developed marvelous diagnostics and >detection techniques, but they can do nothing to slow down or reverse the >disease itself. Patients must now live for years with the knowledge that they >are doomed, whereas when my great-grandfather died of cancer in 1928, he only >had to live with the knowledge and the pain for five months. > This is absolutely incorrect. > ~65% of solid tumors are curable with modern techniques including comprehensive radiation therapy, but many people are not given all the options in a timely manner. Others have the tumors sampled by techniques which actually may spread the tumor prior to the definitive therapy. Some tumors are >95% curable (T1 carcincomas on the roof of mouth, T1 larynx, skin carcinomas) by comprehensive radiotherapy or surgery alone. Furthermore, this is long-term disease free survival, which is the correct denominator to use. The fact remains that untreated hypertension has a higher mortality than many types of cancer. Hope that helps clarify. Mitchell Swartz, MD,ScD (mica world.std.com) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 18:19:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA03082; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33B312A1.1BA8996E microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 10:38:49 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: SMOT Mk 2 Beta 3 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2CpCi2.0.vl.SFnip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8728 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have found that my achieving good side to side magnetic balancing, the magnet arrays can be lifted at least 3mm ABOVE the ball centre. This seems to cause almost NO reduction in up the ramp operation. In fact it can actually improve it due to the ball's upward attraction and hence reduced frictional ramp losses. The real result is that it really REDUCES the draw back forces as the ball exits. This means the ball on rollaway acts like it has fallen down a 13mm exit slope (magnetically) instead of the actual 10mm slope. The bottom line is : 1) Improved up the ramp operation. (Much quieter) 2) Reduced magnet array overhang. (More attractive ball forces) 3) Increased punch through into the "Blue Hole". 4) Reduced draw back on going down the exit slope. 5) Reduced draw back on rollaway. 6) Easier "Rollaways". Rollaways are still tricky, but this really helps. Remember to get this to happen, you need GOOD side to side balancing or the ball will be drawn off the ramp's rails by the elevated magnet arrays. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 19:09:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA08566; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33B29FF7.7D55B33 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:59:35 +0400 From: Hamdi Ucar Organization: Orchestra X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b4 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vortex Subject: Quantum helps X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iRkmy2.0.k52.tmnip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8729 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, There is popular and effective way to avoid bad criticism on OU phenomenology such as pertium mobile. Relate it to quantum theory and get the mainstream science symbolic power in back. Nobody dare to critic if you name it as QUANTUM device. This also keep the invention and the inventor safe in a degree. By using the uncertainability principle it is possible to keep everything uncertain. Another usefulness of the Q.T. is it incomprehensibility. If you attribute to quantum, you don't need to explain how it is working or it is not working. Quantum theory will answer all the question automatically. At least a good percentage of questions can be eliminated by the argument that these question should not be asked according the Quantum theory. Remainings can be answered by the demagogical language of the theory. Quantum! Join the religion! Quantumly yours, Hamdi Ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 19:43:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA17716; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:37:29 -0700 From: Lynn Kurtz Subject: Re: In defense of perpetual motion inventors In-reply-to: X-Sender: kurtz imap2.asu.edu To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: <3.0.2.32.19970626193729.0069b430 imap2.asu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"V88zf1.0.kK4.AVoip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8730 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Jed Rothwell writes: > >They are a favorite target, along with circle squarers (people who try to find an exact value for pi). For your information, "squaring the circle" is not "finding the exact value of pi". Rather, it the following geometry problem: Given a circle, construct with a compass and unmarked straight edge a square having the same area. I believe this problem has the same status as the "trisect an angle with compass and straight edge" problem, that is, it has been shown to be impossible. That doesn't, however, seem to stop the cranks from inventing "solutions". --Lynn From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 19:54:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA25707; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:52:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:52:11 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33B32AC9.77C7 math.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:51:53 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Steve Jones' Radiation Reduction work Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AL9jX1.0.bH6.Qhoip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8731 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The following was posted by Steve Jones, BYU, on sci.physic.fusion, and it seems to deserve reposting here. Recent high precision experiments (no geiger counters!) done by Jones confirm the obvious suspicion that radioactive metals (Th, etc) dissolved into electrolyte seem to dramatically lose their activity because they are plated onto the cathode. This is very likely what was occuring in the CETI demo shown on TV, since they used precisely the set-up Jones found to give the largest erroneous "remediation" effect (detector away from the cathode, where the rad metals are getting stuck). While the CETI experiment *shown on TV* clearly would suffer from this large systematic error---and it therefore goes from being merely suspect to meaningless---we have been told that the Cincinatti group's experiment guarded against this. Maybe, only the rigorous details will clarify that. The only thing I have to add is that Hal Fox had publicly announced at last year's LENR meeting that Steve Jones would be personally testing the Cincinnatti groups protocol. Jones says nothing about this below, but if we put 2 + 2 together it **sure looks like** Jones has tested some version of the Cincinnatti groups experiment with some form of cooperation and found it to be in gross error. Bob Bass apparently didn't see the need to include this in the recent press release. :-) One other interesting thing Jones points out below is that electrochemical plating to separate out radioactive elements from solution is an old and well developed technique. It seems that if it resulted in "deactivation" of the elements to such a robust degree as claimed by the C(incinatti/ETI) groups, then surely it would have been noticed in the past. The usual response to this query Re. cold fusion is "no one looked for it nefore"---but I imagine in the case of rad waste they were looking very carefully at exactly how much rad was present and accounted for during their procesing. Not hard science, but just a thought. Text of email message from S. Jones: .... As for your announcement (and that made last week on Good Morning America) that radioactivity of thorium /or/ uranium can be reduced in an electrolytic cell, I don't believe that either. And my skepticism is, as usual, based on experiments which I have conducted myself: EXPERIMENTAL TEST OF CLAIMS OF REDUCTION OF RADIOACTIVITY IN ELECTROLYTIC CELLS Steven E. Jones We have conducted a series of experiments at BYU in which we used a sensitive gamma detector (5" NaI) to search for variations in levels of radioactivity in electrolytic cells containing radioactive thorium salts. The NaI detector system allows us to determine energies of gamma rays emitted by the radioactive materials, which a simple Geiger counter cannot do. We focussed on the 59 keV peak of Th, which was the largest signal peak, and on the 2615 keV peak of Tl-208, a daughter of thorium. After one run, we found that the apparent radioactivity of the entire cell dramatically _decreased_. Naturally, we carefully checked for sources of systematic errors -- and found that the arrangement of the cell happened to be such that the cathode was in the cell at a position away from the detector. When we simply rotated that cell so that the cathode was as near the detector as possible, we observed that the radioactive count rate actually _increased_ over the original rate. When we removed the cathode from the cell and placed it adjacent to the detector, we found that it showed a pronounced Th peak which was not present on the cathode at all prior to running the cell. For each test, we found that when we rotated the cell so that the cathode was farther from the detector, then the radioactivity was significantly less than when that cathode was positioned nearer the detector. The electrolyte alone, with the electrodes removed, always showed a decrease in radioactivity from the initial activity. All of these results are consistent with Thorium (and other daughter metals) plating out onto the cathode. This should be no surprise since these metals exist predominately as anions in solution. In order to establish a real reduction in radioactivity in an electrolytic cell: 1. It is not enough merely to sample the electrolyte, since thorium and other radioactive metals will plate out onto the cathode. 2. Sampling "the entire cell" is also inconclusive since the electrode itself will attenuate gamma rays coming from the radioactive metals on those surfaces farther from the detector. 3. An important test would be to digest both electrodes back into the electrolyte in order to be sure that electro-deposited metals are returned to the electrolyte. However, dilution of the electrolyte would have to be avoided to prevent an increase in attenuation of the emissions due to increased electrolyte. We found that for cases of an apparent reduction in radioactivity of the entire cell, the radioactivity increased to near-initial conditions after the cell was allowed to sit for a few days. This evidently stemmed from the re-dissolving of electro- deposited radioactive metals back into the electrolyte. The electrolyte was found to be strongly acidic, having a pH of approximately two, so that this slow digestion of plated-out metals is to be expected. This process will also occur to some extent during the runs, with rates of deposition and digestion differing for the different metals. This is consistent with our observation that some of the gamma peaks changed more than others, both on the cathode (where the radioactivity increased) and in the electrolyte (where the radioactivity decreased). Any further tests must take into consideration what we have learned about the electro-deposition of radioactive metals onto the cathode in the electrolytic cell. A literature search revealed that electrochemical deposition and separation of radioactive species is a well-known and well- developed technology: "The basis of electrorefining is that, under a given set of conditions, each metallic chemical element has a well-defined ... potential at which an ionic form of a metallic element is removed, or plated, from an ionic solution. By adjusting electrical potentials appropriately, it is possible to transfer metallic elements such as uranium and tranuranic actinides selectively from metallic phase to an ionic phase and back again, and thus to effect their separation from one another and the bulk of the fission products." Nuclear Wastes: Technologies for Separations and Transmutation, National Academy Press, 1996, p. 43. This developed technology involves radioactive waste _separation_ in an electrochemical cell -- not transmutation of radioactive wastes. This same volume describes effective methods for transmutation of radioactive wastes, which do _not_ include processing in an electrochemical cell. One transmutation method is to use electrochemical means to separate out long-lived radioactive wastes onto a cathode, then to re-introduce this waste back into a nuclear reactor in order to (partially) transmute it into a fuel or a stable metal. But these processes have already been worked out. It is highly likely that this plating-out of radioactive metal ions is all that is occurring in electrolytic cells for which dramatic reduction in radioactivity is currently claimed. This objection applies specifically to the Patterson-cell claims made on Good Morning America, 6/11/97. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 20:07:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA32112; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:05:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:05:53 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33B32DFD.6239 math.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:05:33 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: In defense of perpetual motion inventors References: <3.0.2.32.19970626193729.0069b430 imap2.asu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NSSiZ1.0.cr7.Fuoip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8732 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Lynn Kurtz wrote: > > >Jed Rothwell writes: > > > >They are a favorite target, along with circle squarers > >(people who try to find an exact value for pi). > > For your information, "squaring the circle" is not > "finding the exact value of pi". Well, if you could "square the circle with ruler and compass" according to the classical rules of construction, it would mean you could deduce an exact formula for Pi that is an expression involving only a finite number of square root signs and rational numbers, and vice versa. Thus Jed is correct, it amounts to finding a closed formula for pi of a very special sort. The basic results are that you can't square the circle, trisect and angle or double a cube. Mathematically, these amount to showing that certain numbers such as pi, (2^1/3), etc, are not the solutions of polynomial equations with only even terms and with rational coefficients. The branch of math that solved these classical conjecures is known as Galois Theory. The nice thing about these problems is that we know that people who claime to have solved them are "in err"---either they do not understand what the actual problem is, or the solution they have found is invalid, no if, ands or butts. As I like to caution, remember that many more people have a penchant for physics than math, so plenty of people who might otherwise be trisecting angles are trying to make antigravity fields, unify the forces, transmute elements, etc. They will be just as wrong, its just not possible the prove it anymore. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 20:54:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA29374; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:41:15 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Quantum helps Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 03:39:52 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <33b435b1.10454434 mail.eisa.net.au> References: <33B29FF7.7D55B33 verisoft.com.tr> In-Reply-To: <33B29FF7.7D55B33 verisoft.com.tr> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZnkJR2.0.uA7.PPpip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8733 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:59:35 +0400, Hamdi Ucar wrote: >Hi, > >There is popular and effective way to avoid bad criticism on OU >phenomenology such as pertium mobile. Relate it to quantum theory and >get the mainstream science symbolic power in back. Nobody dare to critic >if you name it as QUANTUM device. This also keep the invention and the >inventor safe in a degree. By using the uncertainability principle it is >possible to keep everything uncertain. Another usefulness of the Q.T. is >it incomprehensibility. If you attribute to quantum, you don't need to >explain how it is working or it is not working. Quantum theory will >answer all the question automatically. At least a good percentage of >questions can be eliminated by the argument that these question should >not be asked according the Quantum theory. Remainings can be answered by >the demagogical language of the theory. Quantum! Join the religion! > >Quantumly yours, > >Hamdi Ucar > ROFL! Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 21:23:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA04277; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 21:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 21:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33B33AA9.3122 math.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:59:37 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Further Details on 'Cincinnati Miracle' References: <199706270248.TAA15035 pahrump.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SHtWm2.0.j21.1ipip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8734 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robert Bass wrote: > > Further Details on 'Cincinnati Miracle' > > Since posting the NEWS RELEASE about the 'Cincinnati Miracle' > I have received several request for more experimental details Actually, a secondary miracle associated with radioactivity vanishing is that positive claims of this effect also seem to vanish, with a ~ 1 year half life. For example, I recall that Bush & Eagleton were supposedly doing replicable and independently verifiable deactivation of Thorium nearly two years ago---yet somehow this never saw the light of day. They seem to have been two years ahead of the latest crop, yet it has come to nothing so far. So, I don't get particularly excited that this time around will bring about a sudden earth movement...the last 3 or 4 groups I know of that claim to be able to do this have not made any verfiable headway during several years, for whatever reason, even though all of them claim to have a working process and also to have been in contact with interested outside labs or agencies to various degrees. At least the Cincinnatti group have said they want complete openness, to better the world. I suspect it will simply result in a quick repudiation, but maybe this is one benefit from their being deeply religious, even if their is no scientific payoff... -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 22:02:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA25604; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:00:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:00:22 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:00:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706270500.AAA22654 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com, VORTEX From: Scott Little Subject: Re: CF on TV in Tacoma Resent-Message-ID: <"VExyq1.0.-F6.bZqip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8735 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:41 AM 6/26/97 EDT, Gene wrote: >It is metallurgist Dr. Norman Olson at Hanford, Washington, who was on >the Good Morning America program, who apparently was happy with what he >saw during his stay in Sarasota. He is now back at Hanford carrying out >verification of the CETI process. Good place to do it, I think. Hope we hear one way or the other soon. Thanks, looking forward to the double issue. Scott From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 22:27:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA29993; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:22:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:22:15 -0700 From: HLafonte aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 01:16:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970627011627_-1945809054 emout20.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Reply to Steve Ekwall Resent-Message-ID: <"pac713.0.ZK7.6uqip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8736 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steve, Thanks for the info. I will fax you copies of balance system in the morning. The "trick" I talked about, may not be needed. I thought at first the bottom magnet had to be stronger than either of the two top magnets. But at this point it looks as though it can be the same size as each one of the other top magnets. I will know for sure tomorrow morning. Thanks again, Butch From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 22:31:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA31043; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:27:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:27:04 -0700 Message-ID: <33B34E21.6C557D64 microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:52:41 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: SMOT rollaways NOW 3!!!!!!!! X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BSN3H3.0.ra7.cyqip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8737 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Have just updated the SMOT results page on my site. We now have 3 x reported rollaways and 1 x rollaround. I have also updated the SMOT Mk2 Beta 3 data. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 23:04:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA20506; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:59:34 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 01:58:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970627015804_-2097512162 emout17.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Thanks to Greg Resent-Message-ID: <"JIYV13.0.J05.3Rrip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8738 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg, Thanks for the graphics. I was not expecting to find myself on the web today. Here in Birmingham, Alabama (USA) there are not many"overunity" people. Thank GOD for the web. I will keep everyone informed of any developments. If you come up with anything let me know. I will send a fax to anyone who wants to see the balance system. Maybe someone who has the time can get it on the web. I'm calling in help to learn how to get files on the web, e-mail, ect. My three Girls are out of school now and I have to wait in line to get on the computer. I had to wait a long time today as it is 1:00 AM now. Thanks again, Butch From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 23:06:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA04895; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:00:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:00:58 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:06:59 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: In defense of perpetual motion inventors =NNg! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"JRfd4.0.PC1.PSrip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8739 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Now, Now " Gentlemen! On Thu, 26 Jun 1997, Evan Soule wrote: ...when ...out of the blue ...drops ... "The Insulting > Man." :-) >Evans' > >....helped improve machine tools. > > > >Jed OK, -NUFF SAID, "Play BALL!" or From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 23:30:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA23158; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:32:43 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: In defense of perpetual motion inventors -NNg- In-Reply-To: <33B32DFD.6239 math.ucla.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5mQYl.0.mf5.Krrip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8740 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Now,Now Gentleman!... On Thu, 26 Jun 1997, Barry Merriman wrote: > > Well, if you could "square the circle with ruler and compass" > according to the classical rules of construction, it would > mean you could deduce an exact formula for Pi that is an > expression involving only a finite number of > square root signs and rational numbers, and vice versa. > Thus Jed is correct, Understood: "PLAY-BALL"! From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jun 26 23:43:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA09952; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:38:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:38:49 -0700 Message-ID: <33B35EF8.4021CAAF microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 16:04:32 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l eskimo.com CC: List Server Vortex Subject: Re: Thanks to Greg X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <970627015427_58769772 emout06.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"f2VR41.0.MR2.u_rip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8741 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HLafonte aol.com wrote: > > Greg, > Thanks for the graphics. I was not expecting to find myself on the > web > today. Here in Birmingham, Alabama (USA) there are not many"overunity" > people. Thank GOD > for the web. I will keep everyone informed of any developments. If you > come > up with anything let me know. I will send a fax to anyone who wants to > see > the balance system. Maybe someone who has the time can get it on the > web. I'm > calling in help to learn how to get files on the web, e-mail, ect. > My three Girls are out of school now and I have to wait in line to > get on > the computer. I had to wait a long time today as it is 1:00 AM now. > Thanks again, > Butch Hi Butch, Glad to be of help. Fax me anything you want. I can grad it and update "Your" page with it. I will have a animated Gif, of the magnets moving closer together, up tomorrow. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 00:19:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA20511; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:18:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:18:10 -0700 Date: 27 Jun 97 03:16:41 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: SMOT rollaways NOW 3!!!!!!!! Message-ID: <970627071640_100433.1541_BHG66-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"bb_lx1.0.M05.oasip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8742 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg, > We now have 3 x reported rollaways and 1 x rollaround. Good. I realise you are busy, but any chance you could answer my questions as posted yesterday? Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 00:20:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA26998; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: 27 Jun 97 03:16:43 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Potassium Transmutation Experiment Message-ID: <970627071642_100433.1541_BHG66-3 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"i93TD1.0.ib6.mbsip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8744 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Frederick, > Given the reports of potassium transmutation in biological > environments and the odd deficiency of potassium in the World's > ocean as opposed to no such deficiency in constantly recharged > "salt lakes" Oddly enough it was apparent K bio-transmutation which first got me involved in the whole field of "CF" and "weird science" in general. The specific example is not relevant because it was an isolated case, but one neurophysician at the time related it to a condition known as familial hypokalaemia. He said that in FK a sudden fall occurs in serum potassium levels, with no excretion of K ions. Since the vast majority of K+ in the body is held inside the cells (unlike Na+, which mostly stays in the intercellular fluids) and there appears to be no way in which K can be made insoluble in the body, the obvious answer is that the K+ levels in the cells is raised slightly at the expense of the serum levels. I offered this comment to the physician, who (as I recall, I am not sure) responded by saying that when a patient with FK suffers this drop in serum K+ it is necessary to give large quantities of K+, and there is no subsequent hyperkalaemia. Certainly he did say - rightly or wrongly - that "nobody knows where the K+ goes." As I understand it, any sudden surge in serum K+ can be fatal. In the case (not FK) to which I referred earlier, there was an eventually-fatal collapse of serum potassium ion levels. The patient had to be given what the hospital referred to as "industrial quantities" (in excess of 1500g) of KCl over a period of ~36 hours, during which time there was no detectable elimination of K+. Since they said that body only holds a total of ~300g of K (as K+ or KCl, I don't remember), this is clearly absurd unless an insoluble 'sink' is made for the K+. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 00:20:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA26981; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: 27 Jun 97 03:16:39 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Steve Jones' Radiation Reduction work Message-ID: <970627071639_100433.1541_BHG66-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"8ChNK3.0.Ub6.jbsip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8743 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry, > Jones says nothing about this below, but if we put 2 + 2 together > it **sure looks like** Jones has tested some version of the > Cincinnatti groups experiment with some form of cooperation and > found it to be in gross error. Bob Bass apparently didn't see the > need to include this in the recent press release. :-) My, my. Is that how you "scientists" think? You take what you think is a possibility, and then from that say that someone else is a crook because your possibility is a fact? I think I prefer the PM nutters any day. As for Jones, well, I've seen him show how recombination explains the CETI cells. Curious fellow, this Jones. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 00:36:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA21482; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:34:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:34:35 -0700 Message-ID: <33B36C0F.8AD34DB3 microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:00:24 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: Guest Book Facilities X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rkutk3.0.ZF5.Bqsip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8745 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have just updated my site with a guest book facility. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 00:54:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA28609; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: 27 Jun 97 03:48:48 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Ragland cells Message-ID: <970627074848_100433.1541_BHG69-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"OKJGt.0.x-6.c3tip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8746 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gnorts, Both of our triode Pd-D2O cells are being returned to Evan Ragland. Our calorimetry was not comparable with Scott Little's, we had a computer- logged flow calorimeter which reliably recovered around 75% of heating effects in the cell and had a resolution better than 100mW. This was seen as perfectly adequate to see any result of the kind Ragland had seen with some of his cells. 100mW may seem like a large number, but it is only a small fraction of the several watts of input heating power. The first cell, as reported here earlier, gave no apparent anomalous thermal effect over a couple of weeks. The second showed a near-short between one anode and the cathode. The cell was drained and an effort was made to correct the problem, which was caused by poor mechanical design of the cathode holder. We have no proper facilities for working on CF cells, but every effort was made to avoid contaminating the cathode. Perhaps I was being too careful to avoid that, or perhaps the cell's design wa such that it was almost impossible to correct the problem. Either way, the cell shorted out again after some twelve hours of running and the test was abandoned. We consider that these tests appear to demonstrate that the triode configuration is not a panacea for the notorious "materials problem" of Pd-D2O CF cells. A full report will appear in the next issue of Infinite Energy magazine. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 01:28:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA27891 for billb@eskimo.com; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 01:28:25 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 01:28:25 -0700 X-Envelope-From: dominic net-position.com Fri Jun 27 01:28:24 1997 Received: from dns.net-position.com (dns.net-position.com [194.73.181.2]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA27870 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 01:28:18 -0700 Received: from dominic.net-position.com (dominic.net-position.com [194.73.181.252]) by dns.net-position.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA19310; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 10:03:07 +0100 Received: by dominic.net-position.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC82DD.446CDE20 dominic.net-position.com>; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:34:10 +-100 Message-ID: <01BC82DD.446CDE20 dominic.net-position.com> From: Dominic Murphy To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" Cc: "'76570.2270 compuserve.com'" <76570.2270@compuserve.com> Subject: FW: Europa Image -- AC Clarke Request Old-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:34:08 +-100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: vortex-l Status: O X-Status: I've tried the URL on my Web kit...and...she no there. Has it been pulled? Where can I find it? ---------- From: Dominic Murphy[SMTP:dominic popmail.dircon.co.uk] Sent: 24 June 1997 23:25 To: dominic net-position.com Subject: Europa Image -- AC Clarke Request >Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 07:40:53 -0700 >Date: 21 Jun 97 10:40:00 EDT >From: Gene <76570.2270 CompuServe.COM> >To: VORTEX >Subject: Europa Image -- AC Clarke Request >Resent-Message-ID: <"YazWB.0.a44.qV-gp" mx1> >Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com >Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com >X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8580 >X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com >Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com > > >TO Vortexians: > >From: >Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief >Infinite Energy Magazine >Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. >PO Box 2816 >Concord, NH 03302 > > Phone: 603-228-4516 > Fax: 603-224-5975 > 76570.2270 compuserve.com > >************** > >This is off-topic, but important. My good friend Arthur C. Clarke has >written to me and to others about an unusual frame from the Galileo >mission data. This frame may be viewed at: > >http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/europa/PIA00588_full > >The frame is a Europa image of 140 x 130 km, with 180m resolution. > >To quote from ACC's note of May 27, 1997: > > >"It shows a landscape (or icescape) covered with ridges and what looks >like intersecting superhighways, some extending for 100 Km or more, >although many are broken by obvious shearing movement of the underlying >terrain. Puzzling though these are, they do not suggest intelligent >planning --indeed, rather the opposite!" > >"But there is one conspicuous exception, which I pointed out to JPL's Dr >Doyle earlier this month. About an eigth of the way down from the top of >the image, a very narrow line runs completely across the frame. It is of >uniform thickness and perfectly straight, except for two slight >deviations apparently associated with major changes of level. Any >unbiased observer, not knowing the orign of this image, would have no >hesitation in proclaiming the line to be artificial. However, one thing >rather puzzles me -- it seems a remarkable coincidence that it is so >nearly parallel to the top edge of the image. Could it, in fact, be an >artefact of the software -- or perhaps of the Galileo scan platform?" > >"In any case, it is imperative to examine the two adjacent frames to see >if the line also proceeds across them --and if so, to determine its total >length." > >"I urgently appeal for further investigation --if the result is what I >hope it may be, NASA's budget worries will be over!" --Dr. Arthur C. >Clarke, CBE > > > > Dominic Murphy 44+ (0)181 747 0499 0973 886770 (mobile) dominic dircon.co.uk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 02:12:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA03001; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 02:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 02:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:28:20 GMT From: "Peter Glueck" Message-ID: <33b387b8.itim itim.org.soroscj.ro> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Cc: "Peter Glueck" Subject: Re: Ragland cells Resent-Message-ID: <"5rxkR.0.lk.jDuip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8748 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:51:04 -0700 (PDT), vortex-l eskimo.com wrote: > We consider that these tests appear to demonstrate that the triode > configuration is not a panacea for the notorious "materials problem" of > Pd-D2O CF cells. > A full report will appear in the next issue of Infinite Energy magazine. Dear Chris, It is regrettable that you had this negative results with the Ragland Cell. It seems that the cell intends to solve the "materials problem" by a sort of dynamization of the surface. The failure of your test is not due to intrinsic factors but to secondary engineering problems, i.e. is not relevant for the true value of the cell, and deserves, IMHO, only a short report. Scott had one real negative result and one second, similar to yours. Good luck with the test, Scott and Chris (if you try again) Peter -- dr. Peter Gluck Institute of Isotopic and Molecular Technology Fax:064-420042 Cluj-Napoca, str. Donath 65-103, P.O.Box 700 Tel:064-184037/144 Cluj 5, 3400 Romania Home: 064-174976 E-mail: peter itim.org.soroscj.ro , peterg@oc1.itim-cj.ro From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 02:39:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA00555; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 02:38:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 02:38:01 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 02:37:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Martin Sevior To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re:SMOT Mk 2 Beta 3 In-Reply-To: <199706270903.CAA20339 guilder.ucdavis.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"C-nH62.0.b8.uduip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8749 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 27 Jun 1997, Dan Quickert wrote: > Beta 3 adjustment works for me. Level rollaway with good excess force. > Technical details first, personal remarks follow for those who care to read on. > Congratulations Dan! I liked your ideas about seperate receiving sections from the ramp drop off. I've tried it but my attempts to put curves into "N-Gauge" track were pretty hopeless. All the force from the ball dropping off the end of my "N-Gauge" ramp was absorbed by the track. I concur that "N-Gauge" railway line works as a better ramp. I've also tried raising the magnets above the ball center and have found that the ramp still works about as well as previously. It does look promising. From my earlier efforts with the Mark 2, I think there's a good chance of seeing a roll-away with raised magnets and decent ramp interfaces. I've found the "N-gauge" very hard to bend. I like Chris Tinsley's idea of filing away the flat bit on the bottom. I'll try that next in my attempts to get a roll-away from a "Mark 2 Beta 3". Martin Sevior From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 03:21:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA06778; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 03:19:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 03:19:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: 27 Jun 97 06:17:00 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re:SMOT Mk 2 Beta 3 Message-ID: <970627101700_100433.1541_BHG48-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"ZGQML1.0.qf1.-Evip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8751 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Martin, > I've found the "N-gauge" very hard to bend. I like Chris Tinsley's > idea of filing away the flat bit on the bottom. I'll try that next > in my attempts to get a roll-away from a "Mark 2 Beta 3". Actually, I file away the whole underside - horizontal bit and vertical bit as well. I just leave the very upper part which the ball rolls on. I suspect that quality varies a lot with different makes. I'm very impressed with the Peco variety, wherever that comes from. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 03:21:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA06761; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 03:19:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 03:19:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: 27 Jun 97 06:16:58 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Ragland cells Message-ID: <970627101658_100433.1541_BHG48-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"iNVAA1.0.Zf1.sEvip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8750 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Peter, > The failure of your test is not due to intrinsic factors but to > secondary engineering problems, i.e. is not relevant for the true > value of the cell, and deserves, IMHO, only a short report. This is possibly true of the second cell, but not of the first. It is also relevant that one known source of difficulties is poor engineering of CF cells, and this was one area which the Ragland cell was supposed to address successfully. > Scott had one real negative result and one second, similar to > yours. I think you will find that Scott's second test ran quite long enough (in Ragland's opinion) to count as a negative result. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 03:47:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id DAA07587; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 03:45:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 03:45:24 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:45:07 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970627184537.2c6fb0b4 po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8 po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: mpower consultants Subject: Transmutation Resent-Message-ID: <"TYBSu1.0.Qs1.3dvip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8752 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry Merriman posted the following (edited for brevity) at 20:05 1997.06.26 -0700: > > > >As I like to caution, remember that many more people >have a penchant for physics than math, so plenty of >people who might otherwise be trisecting angles are >trying to ... ...transmute elements, etc. >They will be just as wrong, >its just not possible the prove it anymore. So it's not possible to transmute deuterium into helium ? At all ??? Fusion, as well as fission, are both operational subsets of transmutation according to my dictionary. Both have been proven achievable, albeit at great expense. MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM * http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 * (-latest update: 1997.06.25.12:30-) ***************************************************** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 04:14:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA10808; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 04:12:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 04:12:09 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 13:51:35 GMT From: "Peter Glueck" Message-ID: <33b3a949.itim itim.org.soroscj.ro> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ragland cells Resent-Message-ID: <"quvMZ1.0.oe2.90wip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8753 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 27 Jun 1997 03:19:37 -0700 (PDT), vortex-l eskimo.com wrote: > Peter, > I think you will find that Scott's second test ran quite long enough (in > Ragland's opinion) to count as a negative result. > Chris Dear Chris, Do we have to interpret this as a statement that the Ragland Cell is not efficient in solving the problem of reproducibility? What claims Ragland himself to have obtained recently? Best wishes, Peter -- dr. Peter Gluck Institute of Isotopic and Molecular Technology Fax:064-420042 Cluj-Napoca, str. Donath 65-103, P.O.Box 700 Tel:064-184037/144 Cluj 5, 3400 Romania Home: 064-174976 E-mail: peter itim.org.soroscj.ro , peterg@oc1.itim-cj.ro From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 05:08:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA15426; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 05:06:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 05:06:09 -0700 Message-ID: <33B3ABB0.DC464E5B microtronics.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 21:31:52 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: Butch LaFonte's Big Y X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CQnC-3.0.um3.mowip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8754 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I have updated the QF sim with an animated Gif of Butch's idea. It looks really interesting. Awaiting for Butch's next stage. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 05:51:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA20766; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 05:43:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 05:43:46 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970627084816.007645c8 postoffice.ptd.net> X-Sender: revtec postoffice.ptd.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:48:16 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: jeff fink Subject: Re: Fwd: Interesting discovery In-Reply-To: <970626145355_-1462181207 emout13.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HsYmr1.0.O45.2Mxip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8755 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 02:54 PM 6/26/97 -0400, you wrote: > >--------------------- >Forwarded message: >Subj: Interesting discovery >Date: 97-06-25 17:21:33 EDT >From: HLafonte >To: freenrg-l eskimo.com > > In doing some research with permanent magnets, I found a very interesting >sequence of events. First, draw three lines from a common point, at 120 >degrees apart, close to what a Y looks like, then get three magnets. Next, >place the magnets at equal points from the center of the Y on the three >lines. Space them so that their attraction and repulsion forces are very weak >with respect to each other. Put the top two magnets with their north poles >facing to the center of the Y , so that they would be in repulsion if they >were moved to the center of the Y . Next, put the third magnet's south pole >facing to the center of the Y . > Now if you move all three magnets at the same speed to the center, they >will all be attracted to the center, and the top two will not repell each >other. Then if you hold the top two in place and remove the bottom magnet >away and then let go of the top two, they repell each other! I built something similar to this yesterday except it is a "T" instead of a "Y" and the bottom leg is a steel bar instead of a magnet. The three elements are mounted on ball slides. When the bottom element is slid toward the top of the "T" the opposing magnets forget about their repulsion and attract toward the bar. When the bar is slid away, the magnets once again repel and slide away from each other. O/U? It takes a lot of force to slide that bar out of there! Jeff Fink From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 06:13:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA22310; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 06:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 06:06:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Potassium Transmutation Experiment Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 13:04:41 +0000 Message-ID: <19970627130439.AAA16392 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"ptR8r3.0.VS5.4hxip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8757 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:16 AM 6/27/97 +0000, Chris wrote: >Frederick, > > > Given the reports of potassium transmutation in biological > > environments and the odd deficiency of potassium in the World's > > ocean as opposed to no such deficiency in constantly recharged > > "salt lakes" > >Oddly enough it was apparent K bio-transmutation which first got me >involved in the whole field of "CF" and "weird science" in general. > >The specific example is not relevant because it was an isolated case, >but one neurophysician at the time related it to a condition known as >familial hypokalaemia. He said that in FK a sudden fall occurs in serum >potassium levels, with no excretion of K ions. Since the vast majority >of K+ in the body is held inside the cells (unlike Na+, which mostly >stays in the intercellular fluids) and there appears to be no way in >which K can be made insoluble in the body, the obvious answer is that >the K+ levels in the cells is raised slightly at the expense of the >serum levels. I offered this comment to the physician, who (as I recall, >I am not sure) responded by saying that when a patient with FK suffers >this drop in serum K+ it is necessary to give large quantities of K+, >and there is no subsequent hyperkalaemia. Certainly he did say - >rightly or wrongly - that "nobody knows where the K+ goes." As I >understand it, any sudden surge in serum K+ can be fatal. It sure is! KCl injection is used for carrying out the death penalty. I hadn't considered that marine life could be "Living Converters" of potassium to calcium. That would help explain the low potassium levels of the World's ocean and why the White Cliffs of Dover are chalk. :-) I guess I could suggest that a goldfish should be added to the experiment. The cell membrane potentials due to the potassium-sodium concentrations can get up to a hundred millivolts or so, across angstrom thick membranes which results in very high electrostatic field strengths. Don't know if this is enough to create the proposed "Light Lepton" pairs which can do the "hydrino" thing. Other chemical reactions involved in the cell metabolism could release photons of a few ev and these could create the "Light Lepton" pairs. This is getting close to the CF-CETI electrode reactions energy-wise. :-) The (P + e*)+ K-39 ----> Ca-40 + 8 Mev neutrino + heat, reaction might be going on in the bio-transmutation phenomenon. > >In the case (not FK) to which I referred earlier, there was an >eventually-fatal collapse of serum potassium ion levels. The patient >had to be given what the hospital referred to as "industrial quantities" >(in excess of 1500g) of KCl over a period of ~36 hours, during which >time there was no detectable elimination of K+. Since they said that >body only holds a total of ~300g of K (as K+ or KCl, I don't remember), >this is clearly absurd unless an insoluble 'sink' is made for the K+. Still might be a "Spontaneous Human Combustion" connection here also. I'm swearing off bananas, right now! :-) Regards, Frederick > >Chris > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 06:14:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA22170; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 06:03:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 06:03:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: 27 Jun 97 09:01:14 EDT From: Gene <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: VORTEX Subject: Re: In defense of perpetual motion inventors Message-ID: <970627130113_76570.2270_FHU50-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"HYLnR2.0.KQ5.lexip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8756 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > This is absolutely incorrect. > > > ~65% of solid tumors are curable with modern techniques including >comprehensive radiation therapy, but many people are not given all the >options in a timely manner. Others have the tumors sampled by techniques >which actually may spread the tumor prior to the definitive therapy. > > Some tumors are >95% curable (T1 carcincomas on the roof of mouth, T1 >larynx, skin >carcinomas) by comprehensive radiotherapy or surgery alone. > > Furthermore, this is long-term disease free survival, which is the >correct denominator to use. > > The fact remains that untreated hypertension has a higher mortality than >many types of cancer. Hope that helps clarify. > Mitchell Swartz, MD,ScD (mica world.std.com) Thanks Mitch! It is great to have a physician/engineer on this forum who knows the latest medical facts. Mitch, would you try to shed some light on the patient with the K enigma that Chris Tinsley referred to? Best, Gene Mallove From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 06:25:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA24175; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 06:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 06:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: 27 Jun 97 09:16:36 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Ragland cells Message-ID: <970627131636_100433.1541_BHG103-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"h3mFE3.0.ev5.0uxip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8758 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Peter, > Do we have to interpret this as a statement that the Ragland Cell > is not efficient in solving the problem of reproducibility? Well, almost. We could say that we might have had a particularly stubborn set of cathodes, I suppose. Personally, I think that electrodiffusion is better than straight loading; but that's not to say that it is a very efficient way around the problem. > What claims Ragland himself to have obtained recently? Nothing very exciting, but then I don't think he's been doing any runs recently. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 08:01:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA05575; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 07:56:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 07:56:35 -0700 Date: 27 Jun 97 10:55:16 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: In defense of perpetual motion inventors Message-ID: <970627145515_72240.1256_EHB98-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"F8ipE2.0.1N1.YIzip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8759 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex Richard Wayne Wall and Mitch Swartz take exception to my statements that cancer research has not prolonged the lives of some patients. I must point out two things: 1. I specifically said that some forms of cancer, like childhood leukemia, have been cured. Obviously, I meant that significant progress has been made with other types. 2. While I do not pretend to be an expert in medicine, my sources of information are impeccable. They are: Two articles in a recent Special Issue of Scientific American devoted to cancer; A recent op-ed piece in the New York Times by a leading cancer researcher who recommended that funds be diverted from treatment to prevention; Discussions with the doctors who treated a close friend of mine for melanoma years ago, unsuccessfully. Contrary to Mr. Wall's assertions, such sources cannot be considered "crackpot" medical opinions. They may be controversial, but there is good evidence to support these claims. Those who disagree should read the literature and argue with the experts, not with me. The term "circle squarer" was originally used to describe people who attempt to look for a geometric solution, but it also means people who look for a rational number or a fraction for pi. This is discussed in an interesting book by Peter Beckmann, "The History of Pi," (Golem Press, 1977). - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 08:02:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA07130; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:01:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:01:24 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Radiationless D-D He-4 Reaction Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 15:01:16 +0000 Message-ID: <19970627150114.AAA4347 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"jD1AE3.0.Kl1.3Nzip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8760 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Vortex: One of the main points of contention of CF reactions was where the 24 Mev went, from the reaction D + D = He-4 + 24 Mev and the momentum considerations. The reaction: (D + e-*) + D = He-4 + neutrino (s) + 24 Mev sans heat would explain this without any question of accepted nuclear physics. The e-* "Light Lepton" would merely be a "catalyst" that would get a deuteron (or a proton) over the coulomb barrier possibly with the release of "low grade" heat, and the energetics of the reaction would create the neutrino (s) which would carry off the lion's-share of the energy as innocuous (and virtually undetectable) radiation. God might want to try for a patent on this as soon as he gets a break from trying to understand Quantum Theory. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 08:15:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA06354; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: 27 Jun 97 11:08:00 EDT From: Gene <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: VORTEX Subject: Re: Steve Jones' Radiation Reduction work Message-ID: <970627150759_76570.2270_FHU43-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"dNtby.0.7Z1.sVzip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8761 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The premature ejaculation of garbage and specious arguments from Steve Jones -- reposted here by Barry -- is to be expected. Jones is not a scientist, but a politician, as will be increasingly shown (as though more proof were needed!) as events and information unfold. As to theories of plating out and standard trivial ideas of where the Th and U went, you can't seriously think that these have not been carefully addressed both by CETI and the Cincinnati people! This Jones stuff hearkens back to the insane ranting of Taubes in 1990 that fraud is obviously a better explanation than tritium de-novo production in CF experiments. Gene Mallove From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 08:17:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA11147; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:15:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:15:59 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970627111440.0069aad4 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:14:40 +0000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: In defense of perpetual motion inventors In-Reply-To: <970627130113_76570.2270_FHU50-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"bBOIv3.0.2k2.kazip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8762 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 09:01 AM 6/27/97 EDT, Gene Mallove wrote: >> > ~65% of solid tumors are curable with modern techniques including >>comprehensive radiation therapy, but many people are not given all the >>options in a timely manner. Others have the tumors sampled by techniques >>which actually may spread the tumor prior to the definitive therapy. >> .... > >Thanks Mitch! It is great to have a physician/engineer on this forum who >knows the latest medical facts. > >Mitch, would you try to shed some light on the patient with the K enigma >that Chris Tinsley referred to? > Gene, Sorry, but I don't believe the story. Suggest Chris and you begin to read up on potassium metabolism, especially atypical primary hyperaldosteronism, including the hyperplastic type. Potassium is well controlled in vivo, although with certain endocrinopathies (glandular problems) the set point is wrong, and other type of defects exist. [Cf. ref. Textbook of Endocrinology, R. Williams et alia, Saunders Publishing, or equivalent.] I have seen no evidence convincing me of any of these reactions outside of a fully loaded active metal, but would be willing to examine any such putative data if it really exists. Mitchell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 08:22:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA12350; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:19:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:19:06 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970627111749.00724380 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:17:49 +0000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: In defense of perpetual motion inventors In-Reply-To: <970627145515_72240.1256_EHB98-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5XgX31.0.q03.fdzip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8763 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 10:55 AM 6/27/97 EDT, Jed wrote: >To: Vortex > >Richard Wayne Wall and Mitch Swartz take exception to my statements that >cancer research has not prolonged the lives of some patients. I must point out >two things: > >1. I specifically said that some forms of cancer, like childhood leukemia, >have been cured. Obviously, I meant that significant progress has been made >with other types. > >2. While I do not pretend to be an expert in medicine, my sources of >information are impeccable. They are: > >Two articles in a recent Special Issue of Scientific American devoted to >cancer; > Having treated several thousand people with cancer, I tell you definitively that Jed is wrong, and probably has no right scaring people. Cancers which have been treated, and the patients cured achieving long-term disease free survival by radiation therapy alone include Hodgkins disease, carcinoma of the skin, carcinoma of the larynx, tongue, oral cavity, roof of mouth, choroidal melanoma, ..... Cancers cured by combinations of radiation and surgery (with or without chemotherapy) include adenocarcinoma of the prostate, breast, rectum, and bladder, also soft tissue sarcomata. And others. BTW Hodgkins Disease (normal fatality rate of >95%) was cured with high voltage power supplies to a 30% cure rate BEFORE high voltage irradiators (including van de Graffs and the more conventional linear accelerators and cobalt-60 irradiators) pushed that cure rate up by a factor of 2 to 3. A few refs: Lo,T., F. Salzman, and M. Swartz, "Radiotherapy for Cancer of the Head and Neck", Otolaryngologic Clinics of North America, 18, Aug 1985, 521-531 (1985). Perez, C.A., Brady, L.W., "Principles and Practice of Radiation Oncology", Lippincott, Co., Philadelphia (1990). Moss, William, et alia, "Radiation Oncology; Rationale, Technique, Results", C.V.Mosby Co., St. Louis, (1979). In summary, the cure for patients afflicted with cancer, (in a way like the achievement of cold fusion reactions) is available to those that read the literature and then definitively take the time to do it correctly the first time. Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 08:33:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA08553; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: 27 Jun 97 11:22:32 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Quantum helps Message-ID: <970627152231_72240.1256_EHB95-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"_j8ZT.0.452.Ijzip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8764 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex Hamdi Ucar's comments on Quantum Theory are hilarious! Wonderful! "If you attribute to quantum, you don't need to explain how it is working or it is not working. Quantum theory will answer all the question automatically. At least a good percentage of questions can be eliminated by the argument that these question should not be asked according the Quantum theory." Couldn't stop laughing . . . - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 08:59:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA12257; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33B3E438.FBA gorge.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:03:04 -0700 From: tom gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Quantum helps References: <199706270630.XAA23392 mx2.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SS06r3.0.R_2.KA-ip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8765 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hamdi: I completely agree. "The last refuge of the scoundrel is not politics, but The Quantum." Tom Miller From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 09:28:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA14284; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33B3F83E.7BFA earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 10:28:30 -0700 From: Rich Murray Reply-To: rmforall earthlink.net Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: THORIUM TRANSMUTATION BY PLASMA-INJECTED PROTONS?] Content-Type: message/news Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"Dqsrp1.0.2V3.eb-ip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8766 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Path: nntp.earthlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news-west.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-feed1.tiac.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!207.167.64.6!news.znet.com!not-for-mail From: "Robert Bass" Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion Subject: THORIUM TRANSMUTATION BY PLASMA-INJECTED PROTONS? Date: 26 Jun 1997 15:28:12 GMT Organization: zNET Internet Services Message-ID: <01bc8245$6c68e7e0$6692e2cd rbrtbass.pahrump.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: user02.pahrump.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 THORIUM TRANSMUTATION BY PLASMA-INJECTED PROTONS? by Robert W. Bass After I posted the News Release by the Cincinatti Group, in which they claimed to have transmuted one-tenth gram of Thorium into Titanium & Copper (90% Ti + 10% Cu, with an experimental error estimated at less than 7%) I received many smart-alec catcalls of the type "where is the crater?" and "were they fried by the neutron flux?" and "where is the Tritium? Call in the NRC!" I do not know exactly what occurred in the CG's electrolytic cell. However, it is possible to hypothesize an explan- ation which is consistent with the "[Non-neutral] Plasma Injection Transmutation" (PIT) theory of Hal Fox, Shang- Xian Jin, and Bass (the subject of a pending Patent Applic- ation by Fox, Jin & Bass). Papers on the PIT theory have been published in recent issues of _Journal of New Energy_ [a quarterly available for $150/year; 5 issues in print] from Fusion Information Center, P.O. Box 58639, Salt Lake City, UT 84158-0639, phone (801) 583-6232, FAX ... -2963. The PIT theory depends upon two empirical discov- eries by Ken Shoulders: (1) that large numbers of electrons, when sufficiently close together, can cohere by some as yet undetermined quantum phenomenon; and (2) these electron clusters can pick up and carry a minute fraction of protons after passing through e.g. water or other proton-rich sub- stance. Jin has published a theory of how a toroidal ring of electrons can self-cohere. Earlier Bass [an unpublished paper archived at the Fusion Information Center several years ago] had shown that according to the Rabinowitz theory of superfluidity & superconductivity 10^12 electrons at the density in question could form a superconducting superfluid. Suppose now that an electron cluster can carry a minute fraction (say 10^[-6]) of protons. Then each such electron cluster can carry 10^6 protons. Also, as pointed out by Fox & Jin, if the electron cluster is accelerated through an electric potential of 10 eV, then because of the factor of almost 2000 mass-ratio discrepancy between protons & electrons [& rounding off] the protons will be accelerated through nearly 20 keV!!! (Table-top, dirt-cheap, high-energy proton acceleration!!!) Suppose that a Thorium nucleus is excited by the capture of one or two protons. In the case of one proton we have 90_Th^233 + 1_H^1 = 91_Pa^233, and supposing beta-decay by the emission of 13 electrons one would get 91_Pa^233 => 3(22_Ti^50) + 29_Cu^65 + 9(1_H^2) + 13e^-. Similarly, in the case of two protons we have 90_Th^233 + 2(1_H^1) = 92_U^234, and supposing beta-decay by the emission of 14 electrons one would get 92_U^234 => 4(22_Ti^50) + 17(1_H^2) + 14e^-. Suppose that the second process is twice as likely as the first process. Then multiply the second set of equations by 2 and add to the first set. The net result is that one would get 3(90_Th^233) + 5(1_H^1) = = 11(22_Ti^50) + 29_Cu^65 + 43(1_H^2) + 41e^-. Thus a LOW ENERGY process could bombard Thorium with high-energy protons to yield Titanium, Copper, and 43 deuterons (which would presumably join the solution to make heavy water). Note that the total atomic weight of 11 Titanium nuclei plus one Copper nucleus is 550. Now the weight fraction of Titanium is 550/615 = 0.9 = 90% while the weight fraction of Copper is 65/615 = 0.1 = 10% which is PRECISELY what the mass-spectroscopy disclosed! Finally, adding the 43 neglected deuterons increases the total atomic weight to 701 so that the error percentage is 43/701 = 0.06 = 6% which is within the 7 percent maximum Estimated Error of the national testing company which provided the Third Party Verification Certificate! Of course, Copper has another isotope of atomic weight 65, and Titanium has 4 isotopes lighter than the one considered, so that a more complicated version of the preceding would be required in order to explain the huge discrepancies from natural isotopic abundance ratios which were measured. I leave this as an exercise to the patho- logical skeptics who are stubbornly insisting that Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR), as practiced by the medieval alchemists, and brought into the modern era by Joe Champion and Texas A&M Distinguished Professor of Chemistry, John O'M. Bockris, is flatly "IMPOSSIBLE" and that LENR is "pathological science." From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 10:07:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA18352; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:58:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706271658.LAA11889 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com, VORTEX From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Steve Jones' Radiation Reduction work Resent-Message-ID: <"BH0lm2.0.fU4.36_ip" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8767 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:08 6/27/97 EDT, Gene wrote: >As to theories >of plating out and standard trivial ideas of where the Th and U went, you >can't seriously think that these have not been carefully addressed both >by CETI and the Cincinnati people! Good point, Gene. I can't see how any scientist could work with an apparently miraculous process like radiation remediation for months and months without carefully checking for mundane explanations for the phenomenon along the way. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 10:16:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA02196; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 10:12:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 10:12:16 -0700 Date: 27 Jun 97 13:10:09 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Sci. Am., not me Message-ID: <970627171008_72240.1256_EHB16-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"yptyc2.0.9Y.lH_ip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8768 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex Mitch writes: Having treated several thousand people with cancer, I tell you definitively that Jed is wrong, and probably has no right scaring people. Please rewrite this: . . . I tell you definitely that the Scientific American and the New York Times are wrong, and probably have no right scaring people. It is entirely possible they are wrong. They have been wrong before. On the other hand, I have known people who got what experts said was the best, most up-to-date treatment available for cancer in the U.S. and the U.K., to no avail. So I suspect there is some truth to these claims. Enough said; this is off-topic. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 10:24:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA04298; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 10:20:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 10:20:13 -0700 Date: 27 Jun 97 13:13:59 EDT From: Gene <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: VORTEX Subject: Re: In defense of perpetual motion inventors Message-ID: <970627171359_76570.2270_FHU47-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"bW-Jp3.0.331.CP_ip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8769 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >2. While I do not pretend to be an expert in medicine, my sources of >information are impeccable. They are: > >Two articles in a recent Special Issue of Scientific American devoted to >cancer; > >A recent op-ed piece in the New York Times by a leading cancer researcher who >recommended that funds be diverted from treatment to prevention; > >Discussions with the doctors who treated a close friend of mine for melanoma >years ago, unsuccessfully. > >Contrary to Mr. Wall's assertions, such sources cannot be considered >"crackpot" medical opinions. They may be controversial, but there is good >evidence to support these claims. Those who disagree should read the >literature and argue with the experts, not with me. Jed, How can we be sure that these "impeccable" sources of information are any more reliable than say the NYT or Scientific American's information on cold fusion? ( I will read these articles and compare them to what Mitch has to say about them.) I am no expert on medicine, but I am very familiar with alternative therapy claimants -- and quite frankly, I have more faith in some of these claims -- tested in laboratory settings and epidemiologically -- than I do of "establishment" doctors writing op-ed pieces. I would define an establsihment doctor as one who ridicules all alternative approaches. Those that are in the establishment but are beginning to look at alternative -- non-Western approaches, are to be praised. There is a very close analogy between the rejection of alternative therapies that apparently work and the rejection of cold fusion. This should certainly show that the IE editorial staff is not monolithic in its thinking! Gene Mallove From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 10:34:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA06489; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 10:30:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 10:30:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970627132912.00727644 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 13:29:12 +0000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Sci. Am., not me In-Reply-To: <970627171008_72240.1256_EHB16-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"MuMp21.0.Jb1.qY_ip" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8770 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 01:10 PM 6/27/97 EDT, Jed wrote: >To: Vortex > >Mitch writes: > >. . . I tell you definitely that the Scientific American and the New York >Times are wrong, and probably have no right scaring people. > >It is entirely possible they are wrong. They have been wrong before. On the >other hand, I have known people who got what experts said was the best, most >up-to-date treatment available for cancer in the U.S. and the U.K., to no >avail. So I suspect there is some truth to these claims. With all due respect Jed, you are wrong again. The UK is superb at treatments with the best seminoma cures, probably, in the world amongst other contributions. Again, as with cold fusion samples, which can be destroyed by improper loading, or other reactions; the failure to treat malignant disease correctly occurs usually because of errors to have done it right FROM THE BEGINNING. I am truly sorry that you have had so much negative experience, but these illusions and fears are false, and deter people from the truth which will free them. Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 11:26:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA28432; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:29:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Jason Aldo To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Interesting discovery In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970627084816.007645c8 postoffice.ptd.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"9g3ZO1.0.Ay6.dI0jp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8771 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > I built something similar to this yesterday except it is a "T" instead of a > "Y" and the bottom leg is a steel bar instead of a magnet. The three > elements are mounted on ball slides. When the bottom element is slid > toward the top of the "T" the opposing magnets forget about their repulsion > and attract toward the bar. When the bar is slid away, the magnets once > again repel and slide away from each other. O/U? It takes a lot of force > to slide that bar out of there! > > > Jeff, If the attraction of the bottom bar to the two magnets was equal to the work needed to pull the bar back, them the system would be overunity because there would be no net work being done on the rod. However, I suspect it would take much more force to pull the bar back than it does for the magnets to attract the bar since the magnets are farther away from the bar when they are seperated. They only come together after the bar is very close to them. Pete From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 12:04:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA19706; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:56:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:56:11 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 10:55:07 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, List Server Freenrg From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: SMOT Mk 2 Beta 3 Cc: List Server Vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"k3Q2d2.0.pp4.9p0jp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8773 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:38 AM 6/27/97, Greg Watson wrote: >Hi All, > >I have found that my achieving good side to side magnetic balancing, the >magnet arrays can be lifted at least 3mm ABOVE the ball centre. This >seems to cause almost NO reduction in up the ramp operation. In fact it >can actually improve it due to the ball's upward attraction and hence >reduced frictional ramp losses. > >The real result is that it really REDUCES the draw back forces as the >ball exits. This means the ball on rollaway acts like it has fallen >down a 13mm exit slope (magnetically) instead of the actual 10mm slope. > >The bottom line is : > > 1) Improved up the ramp operation. (Much quieter) > 2) Reduced magnet array overhang. (More attractive ball forces) > 3) Increased punch through into the "Blue Hole". > 4) Reduced draw back on going down the exit slope. > 5) Reduced draw back on rollaway. > 6) Easier "Rollaways". > [snip] >-- >Best Regards, > Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ This provides the same benefits as an overhead magnetic array, except an overhead array helps center the ball. The problem with strictly an overhed array is that the magnetic field density achievable is very limited. This can be overcome by using magnets under the track. The main problem with magnets under the track is that the lower array must stop or diverge prior to the hole. Another major advantage to using magnets above and below the track is that it fights or prevents permanent magnetization of the ball because the rotation of the ball is in the plane of the magnetic field, thus creating an oscillating polarity condition with respect to any ball magnetization that aligns the ball. In experimenting with this I found that a magnetized ball performed poorly and rolled with a jerking motion. The above thoughts lead to an idea for a hybrid design using 3 arrays, two repulsing arrays low and to the side, both, say, N toward ball, and one attracting array on top with S toward ball: N S o N N S S o - Ball on track S - South magnetic pole N - North Magnetic pole The above design permits splitting the lower track at the drop point and makes for a logical transition between ramps. The following is intended to portray a successive series of cross sections at successive ball positions: N S SN o NS ------------------- N S SN NS o ------------------- N S SN NS o ------------------- N S SN NS o ------------------- N S SN NS N S o N N S S ------------------- Just some ideas. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 12:05:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA03553; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:54:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:54:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33B41B45.46BB earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 12:57:57 -0700 From: Rich Murray Reply-To: rmforall earthlink.net Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: 5 FROZEN NEEDLES CF demo Protocol] Content-Type: message/news Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"vnrQ21.0.Nt.Sn0jp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8772 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Path: nntp.earthlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news-sea-19.sprintlink.net!news-in-west.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!colloquy.apple.com!fo rum.apple.com!news.znet.com!not-for-mail From: "Robert Bass" Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion Subject: 5 FROZEN NEEDLES CF demo Protocol Date: 24 Jun 1997 11:23:58 GMT Organization: zNET Internet Services Message-ID: <01bc8090$fa6b1920$6792e2cd rbrtbass.pahrump.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: user03.pahrump.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 5 FROZEN NEEDLES CF demo Protocol I am pleased that BYU Prof. Steven E. Jones (my successor in fusion-energy research at BYU) has agreed that if I send him this protocol he will try it himself. Unfortunately, in making this statement in an earlier posting, Steve unintentionally and inadvertently misquoted me on the central point! He said that he has "opened the lab here to test any claims of _replicable_ cold fusion emitting neutrons -- such as you have made." It must be by unconscious habit that Steve has inserted the words "emitting neutrons" because an examination in context of anything I have said on 6/19/97 -- or, indeed, since ICCF5 -- shows that "emitting neutrons" was the EXACT OPPOSITE of both my words and my meaning. In fact, the whole point of my "5 Frozen Needles Protocol" is to PROVE (at the 95% Confidence Level as defined by expert Statisticians) that the F&P reaction in deuterated Palladium cathodes is NOT the hot-fusion reaction in which one either gets Helium-3 & a neutron, or a proton & a triton plus a gamma, but the "rare" [_in vacuo_] case in which the result is simply that two deuterons combine to produce a Helium_4 plus lattice-exciting phonons. My original expectation that this is the case was based upon Schwinger's proof at ICCF1 that inside a lattice there are QM/QED Selection Rules which "absolutely forbid" an excited Helium_4 nucleus to shed its excess energy and decay to ground level in either of the ways familiar to either hot plasma fusion researchers or muonic-fusion researchers (which Steve originally called "Cold Fusion" in a 1985 Scientific American article long before the term was adapted by Fleischmann & Pons to describe their own 1989 disclosures.) The experimental evidence that there is Helium_4 of the right order of magnitude to account for the excess heat claimed by researchers using the F&P approach is by now too well documented to need elaboration (recall, for example, the papers of Melvin Miles in the USA, of Gozzi _et al_ in Italy, of Arata & Zhang in Japan, etc.; today I noticed also Abstracts of papers on the phonon de-excitation of excited Helium_4 nuclei on page 94 of Hal Fox's New Energy Journal [by Mitchell R. Swartz of USA] and on page 95 [by Fu-Sui Liu of Beijing], both of which refer to papers published in highly reputable "mainstream" journals, that should go a long way to resolve Steve's persistent puzzlement and professed skepticism about the phonon possibility). At any rate, my purpose in devising the following protocol was to enable such a watertight case to be made for (a) d + d => Helium_4 + phonons, and (b) the Turner- Bush-Bass theory predicting it, that Expert Witnesses could testify in Court that the demonstration had been made "beyond shadow of a doubt." No doubt world-class experts at Jeer/Sneer Review as the meaning of Peer Review (such as CERN's Douglas Morrison or the Internet's Richard Blue) can throw poison-tipped darts at the following, but I doubt if any truly objective and rational scientists will be able to find fault! "5 FROZEN NEEDLES" _DEFINITIVE_ P&F-TYPE CF DEMONSTRATION PROTOCOL Step 1. Prepare a cathode of pure multiply-annealed (crack-free) Palladium, dimensions 10 cm long, 0.5 cm wide, and 0.1 cm thick. HINT. Recall the first successful experiments of Prof. Robert Huggins of Stanford University, in which he repeatedly annealed & manually reworked a Palladium sample _in vacuo_, using a glove-box, in order to expel all gaseous impurities and remove cracks. Also note published caveats of Edmund Storms regarding suitable/unsuitable choices of materials. Step 2. Gently load said cathode with deuterium in a Fleischmann-Pons electrolytic-cell manner, until beta phase is attained and cathode becomes Pd.D_1 or at least Pd.D_0.95. (Many say that loading > 0.85 is OK.) HINT. Recall Michael McKubre's resistivity test for assurance of at least 95% of full loading, as well as Fritz Will's volumetric-swelling test; also note the many published warnings of Dennis Cravens and Edmund Storms regarding various potentially fatal mistakes to avoid. Step 3. Quick-freeze said cathode by sudden pouring of liquid nitrogen upon it (_in situ_, to inhibit de-loading), and thereafter maintain the LOADED Pd.D_0.95 cathode frozen. HINT. See 1992 paper by John Bockris _et al_, who pioneered this all-important freezing technique, and found _massive_ amounts of Helium-4 in a cathode that had been producing excess heat! Step 4. Saw frozen Pd.D_0.95 slab into 5 parallel "needles", each 0.1 cm wide, keeping them frozen. Step 5. Attach electrodes to bottom & top of k_th needle ( k = 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 ), and pulse for times t_k = k.tau (where tau = T microsecs), with a preselected fixed current of I amperes, at a preselected potential difference E_100 = = 17.7 volts. NOTE. According to the Turner-Bush-Bass Resonant Transpar- ency Spectrum [Abstracts, ICCF5] this provides the energy- level n = 100, above ZPF ground-state, of Coulomb Barrier transparency. It is assumed here that the engineering unit of "volts" in the MKS system is the same as in theoretical physics, as implied by a paper of Yeong Kim in ICCF1. The LOW-ENERGY quantum number n = 100 is chosen because the line-broadening created by lattice-ZPF is more than 50% of the distance to the next line and close to maximum over the computed Spectrum (Bass) for n = 1 to n = 600, during which the energy level in eV ranges from about 6.3 eV to 145.2 eV [with numerical accuracy increasing with n]; this is based upon a PERIODIC Coulomb-Madelung/Fermi-Thomas/Mott lattice potential whose validity has been _confirmed_ in that it correctly _predicts_ the strictly _empirical_ "Schwinger Ratio" within 0.3% of its _measured_ value. The optimal values of T and I must be found by trial & error. Step 6. Saw each needle in half and send all 10 pieces, in a double-blind protocol, to INDEPENDENT test labs for physical, chemical assays of He_4 content by every known measurement technique, the more accurate the better. HINT. Recall the early work of Brian Oliver at Rockwell Rocketdyne (who I have heard, with his equipment, is now at Pacific Northwest Labs), in which Palladium cathodes were _fully_ ionized before the application of Mass Spectroscopy measurement techniques. Step 7. Evaluate results by assigning Helium-4 amounts of A_k for k_th needle ( k = 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 ). Step 8. [See DERIVATION below] Define mean error , mean increment , and estimated standard deviation by = (3A_0 + 2A_1 + A_2 - A_4)/5, = (-2A_0 - A_1 + A_3 + 2A_4)/10, 3[^2] = SUM (A_k - - k.)^2, where of course the SUM is from k = 0 to k = 4. Step 9. Judge experiment "successful" if << , and < /2, in which case [see "PROOF" below] one _CONCLUDES_ that with greater than 95% confidence A_k/ = k, ( k = 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 ), so the amount of Helium-4 freshly created in the d-loaded Palladium cathode is _proportional_ to the number of deuterons in the deuterium lattice raised to the energy level E_100. DERIVATION: Define SIG_0 = A_0 + A_1 + A_2 + A_3 + A_4, SIG_1 = A_1 + 2A_2 + 3A_3 + 4A_4, and differentiate with respect to & and set both expressions to zero to obtain + 2 = SIG_0/5, + 3 = SIG_1/10, which are trivial to solve in the form = (SIG_1 - 2SIG_0)/10, = (3SIG_0 - SIG_1)/5, as claimed. PROOF. The reader can learn enough about Statistics by reading "Larry Gonick's Cartoon Guide to Statistics" to satisfy himself that the preceding provides the result claimed at the 95% Confidence Level. I showed my one-page proof to an internationally reputable expert in Statistics and he agreed that it was correct and said that if the experiment turns out as I _predict_ then he will give me a Certificate that the Confidence Level is that asserted and be willing to testify in Court as an Expert Witness that according to accepted principles of Statistics the preceding protocol is definitive as defined. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert W. Bass From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 12:35:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA25813; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 12:32:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 12:32:19 -0700 Date: 27 Jun 97 15:30:51 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: In defense of perpetual motion inven Message-ID: <970627193050_100433.1541_BHG54-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"JSGCY.0.BJ6.2L1jp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8774 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gene, > This should certainly show that the IE editorial staff is not > monolithic in its thinking! Ha! Two outvote one with great frequency. The only common factor is that none of us is on any obvious ego-trip ... whatever contrary perception may be apparent. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 12:51:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA27565; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 12:45:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 12:45:00 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:44:02 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, List Server Freenrg From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: SMOT rollaways NOW 3!!!!!!!! Cc: List Server Vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"u-kdB1.0.Zk6.yW1jp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8775 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 2:52 PM 6/27/97, Greg Watson wrote: >Hi All, > >Have just updated the SMOT results page on my site. > >We now have 3 x reported rollaways and 1 x rollaround. > >I have also updated the SMOT Mk2 Beta 3 data. > >-- >Best Regards, > Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ It seems to me that a rollaway is not a significant event without proven great care in establishing with all necessary precision that the final height of the ball is above its starting elevation. For example, I experienced many rollaways using a 1" ball bearing on a 102 cm length of N guage track with a 1 mm high broad hill in the middle of the track. I used an overhead magnet array formed from stacks of of 18 mm dia 5 mm thick ceramic refrigerator magnets placed on top of a 275 mm long 8 mm wide 1 mm thick steel strip cut from a Pendflex folder hanger strip. Lots of configurations did not work, but lots worked, including 2-4-6-8-6-4-2 and 2-4-6-8-2-4-6, depending on how the magnetic array was positioned relative to the peak of the hill. (The array was set up on overhead plastic supports so it could be easily slid back and forth along the track.) However, the difficulty was in proving that the exit elevation was greater then the starting elevation. I removed the magnet array and the material under the track used to create the hill numerous times and rolled the ball from one end of the track to the other. There was a slight dip in the table, providing a track situation similar to that suggested by JL Nauden (who does such good work.) The track was always initially arranged so that releasing the ball at the start position just permitted it to reach within about 4 cm of the other end of the track. After a rollaway occurred, the magnet array and supports for the hill were removed to verify the track was still level. Almost invariably, the ball would roll off the end of the track in the verification test, indicating that somehow the table had shifted position ever so slightly. One time I got a very good rollaway, but then discovered it was due to an envelope full of magnets accidently left about 15 cm from the end of the track. The table used was wood composition board with steel legs and was 6' long. The problem may have been that the table was on carpet. However, it had been many months in the same location. The important point is that it is very easy to fool yourself and somewhat difficult to prove the significance of a rollaway because (1) the steel ball on smooth metal tracks is so efficient and (2) to prove the trackis level typically involves disturbing the experiment configuration to check for level. I don't think a carpenter's level comes anywhwere near the precision required to check the above experiment. It appears closing the loop is necessary, unless the rollaway is extreme. Other experiments differ, but the initial and final conditions are not so different. Success and failure are just less than a hair's breadth apart. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 14:10:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA07315; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:03:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:03:20 -0700 Date: 27 Jun 97 17:02:28 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: Use bias to avoid false rollaway Message-ID: <970627210228_72240.1256_EHB92-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"u_Sty2.0.Co1.Ng2jp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8776 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex Horace Heffner describes some of the difficulties achieving a true SMOT rollaway: It seems to me that a rollaway is not a significant event without proven great care in establishing with all necessary precision that the final height of the ball is above its starting elevation. Right. And as Horace goes on to describe, this is tricker than you might think. For example, I experienced many rollaways using a 1" ball bearing on a 102 cm length of N gauge track . . . the difficulty was in proving that the exit elevation was greater then the starting elevation. I removed the magnet array and the material under the track used to create the hill numerous times and rolled the ball from one end of the track to the other. . . . After a rollaway occurred, the magnet array and supports for the hill were removed to verify the track was still level. Almost invariably, the ball would roll off the end of the track in the verification test, indicating that somehow the table had shifted position ever so slightly. I saw the same thing. I decided to place the track to a piece of Formica topped shelving, a board 40 cm x 70 cm. I put a piece of copier paper folded four times under one end of the board to give it a slight negative bias. When you place the ball on the track, it slowly rolls the wrong way. Unfortunately, I have never achieved rollaway with this configuration. One time I got a very good rollaway, but then discovered it was due to an envelope full of magnets accidently left about 15 cm from the end of the track. Wow! The tracks must be very smooth. It appears closing the loop is necessary, unless the rollaway is extreme. Other experiments differ, but the initial and final conditions are not so different. Success and failure are just less than a hair's breadth apart. Right. And I do not trust experiments that require hair's breadth adjustments. The effect must be scaled up to the point where it is unambiguous. If the effect is real, it seems there should be a way to enhance it enough to make an unequivocal demonstration. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 14:36:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA22588 for billb@eskimo.com; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:36:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:36:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: zeropoint-ed bort.mv.net Fri Jun 27 14:36:47 1997 Received: from bort.mv.net (root bort.mv.net [192.80.84.6]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA22563 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.155.180.211] ([206.155.180.211]) by bort.mv.net (8.8.5/mem-951016) with SMTP id RAA03584 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:35:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706272135.RAA03584 bort.mv.net> Subject: Interesting Quotes: Old-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 97 17:37:36 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "9702038" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: vortex-l Status: RO X-Status: I got the following quotes from a colleague, Dr. Marcello Truzzi, who deals with the sociology of science. The nice part about these is that they are perfectly symmetric! "Skeptics" of anomalies can apply them to "True Believers" and "True Believers" can apply them to "Skeptics"! Gene Mallove ****** The person who knows everything has the most to learn. The less a man knows, the easier it is to convince him he knows it all. Nothing annoys me more than a man who thinks he knows it all and does. Feel sorry for the man who has been educated beyond his intelligence. The only successful substitute for a lack of brain is silence. The more a man knows himself, the less he says about it. A wise man never blows his knows. If a little learning is a dangerous thing, then most people are safe. Knowing a lot is of no value if what you know isn't so. An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you just found out. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 14:48:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA16231; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:44:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:44:37 -0700 Date: 27 Jun 97 17:42:59 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: SMOT rollaways NOW 3!!!!!!!! Message-ID: <970627214259_100433.1541_BHG41-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"pCqeI1.0.Wz3.4H3jp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8777 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > The important point is that it is very easy to fool yourself and > somewhat difficult to prove the significance of a rollaway because > (1) the steel ball on smooth metal tracks is so efficient and (2) > to prove the trackis level typically involves disturbing the > experiment configuration to check for level. I don't think a > carpenter's level comes anywhwere near the precision required to > check the above experiment. Exactly correct. With carpet on the floor (or non-rigid packing under the legs) it is very easy to disturb the level by 1mm/m. So even reversing the board on the table isn't a reliable check. And I really would ask Greg to answer the points I raised yesterday. My scepticism ebbs and flows, but at the moment it's flowing strongly. Can I repeat the questions (which are not for Greg alone)? --------------------------------------------- Has he been able to create a roll-around with these ramps yet? There is some apparent confusion on his web site. He says that 10mm will give a very small level rollaway, and that it really needs 12mm - but that 12mm is not easy to achieve. We also would like very much to cover progress on this project in next month's IE magazine, and would like that coverage to be as complete as possible. At present, there really is only a limited amount we could say about it, and it doesn't seem likely that within the next three weeks (to our deadline) we would get any kits from Greg and have time to get them working - unless Greg can help out here. So, we would like to see any reliable rollarounds that anyone has to show us - within reasonable travelling distance of NH or Atlanta, or in England. Failing that, a good videotape. ------------------------------------------------------------- I would add another. How come my ramps always seem to work better when the magnets arrays are further down the ramp than Greg specifies? Anyone else had this experience? On a separate issue, Gene asks if our medics (like Mitchell) have any comments on the potassium question. I meant to ask them in my earlier post. But ... I have to say that while I have no personal concern with the familial hypokalaemia question, the fatal (after more than 3 years survival beyond the initial coma, despite massive neurological damage) case who required the 'industrial' quantities of KCl was my late wife. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 16:18:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA05927; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 16:15:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 16:15:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:14:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199706272314.SAA17664 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Ragland triode data Resent-Message-ID: <"-Kvpr1.0.MS1.cc4jp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8778 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gnorts, I have posted some info on our 3 Ragland runs on the EarthTech web page (address below). It's under EarthTech Calorimetry, Water Flow Calorimetry. You will see links labelled RUN 1, RUN 2, & RUN 3. RUN 2's data is most complete. The plots are quite informative and show a overall calorimeter performance that is absolutely unbelievable. We fully expect future runs to exhibit more typical errors (e.g. 1-2% relative). Run 3 is underway now. It has an Alfa Premion Pd cathode which has been polished to a mirror-like finish by Dennis Letts. We are planning to charge it slowly for a long time at a cool temperature (~25C electrolyte temp). Our new calorimeter has exhibited a small but noticeable zero drift which looks like an erratic hysteresis in the thermistors. When we cycle the water temperature up to 40C and back down to 20C, we sometimes find the delta-T apparently shifted by about 0.03 degrees C. Since two sensors are involved, this could be due to changes in one of them or in both of them. Does anyone have any experience with thermistor repeatability at this level? Thanks Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 16:37:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA07937; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 16:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 16:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33B4592E.1DFB earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:22:06 -0700 From: Rich Murray Reply-To: rmforall earthlink.net Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Blacklight Power news Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"2PnOD2.0.wx1.fq4jp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8779 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Story in recent Lancaster Sunday News: Stock Offering Powers Energy Co. The company formed around a former Lancaster scientist's energy discovery has filed a large private offering and attracted a utility company investment. By Maria Coole Sunday News Staff Writer = BlackLight Power Inc. of Malvern, the power company formed in conjunction with the reported discovery of a new energy source by Dr. Randell L. Mills, formerly of Lancaster, has filed its largest private stock offering to date with the Pennsylvania Securities Commission, and has received a million-dollar investment from PacifiCorp Holdings Inc., a public utility holding company from Oregon. In addition, a New Jersey' utility company is negotiating terms for investment in Mills' company, formerly known as HydroCatalysis Power Corp. The controversial power company was formed in 1991. At the time, Mills proclaimed that he had discovered a new energy source derived from ordinary water, and that he had found the grand unified theory - a theory, long sought by Albert Einstein, that explains the workings of the universe. Though the reviews of Mills' work have been mixed in the scientific community, investors and consultants expressed guarded enthusiasm last week over the potential of Mills' technology to produce a new source of energy. "The potential implications are monumental. I'm being careful about what I'm saying. I've seen enough information in technical papers and talking with people who've done the work," said Jim Kendall of Technology Insights, a consulting firm in California. Mills, 39, began working on his unified theory as a student at Franklin & Marshall College, where he earned a chemistry degree. He also holds a medical degree from Harvard and studied at the Massachussets Institute of Technology. After completing his scientific work on his theory about two years ago, he published, "The Grand Unified Theory of Classical Quantum Mechanics." He has since refined his energy source technology. Originally the process occurred in water. Now, the process uses a tiny amount of hydrogen and a vaporized catalyst (gaseous potassium ions) in a vacuum, Mills said. In either energy cell-the electrolytic (which uses water) or the hydrogen gas cell-the result is the same. The hydrogen atoms become smaller than normal, according to Mills, who calls the smaller atoms "hydrinos." When the hydrinos are formed, energy is released, which Mills said is between chemical and nuclear energy. Mills has said his energy source is clean; it does not cause dangerous by-products, and only releases hydrogen, which does not pollute. The power produced by his process can be used to heat and cool homes, to produce electricity and to run automobiles, he said. The nearly $5 million offering filed by BlackLight has been cleared by the Securities Commission, a spokeswoman for the commission said Friday. It is not available to the public. Mills would not speak about the stock offering, saying he was "restricted from disclosing anything related to an offering or if there is an offering." He did talk generally about the business of BlackLight Power. According to Mills, numerous power companies have said that if the process can be validated "it will become the dominant source of power for all power applications." The process is validated, said Mills. One of the studies he cited was run by Dr. Jonathan Phillips, professor of chemical engineering at Penn State University. Phillips' experiments are complete, Mills said, and they showed that by using the Mills process,100 times more heat was produced than could be explained by conventional chemistry. A summary of Phillips' experiments in an attachment to the memorandum filed with the Securities Commission supports Mills' contention. Kendall, of Technology Insights, did a nine-month technical review of BlackLight Power for a utility company on the West Coast that was interested in investing in Mills' company. He would not name the company or say whether it decided to invest. "There is a very persuasive body of technical data going back to 1990 and through various generations of devices much developed by BlackLight Power and a considerable amount developed independently," he said,. "There's a persuasive case to be made that a fundamental new phenomenon has been identified here." Kendall, who has a Ph.D. in engineering, said he believes Mills' theory is supported by his observations. In addition, tests are being conducted by Peter Jansson, a graduate student working on his master's thesis in engineering at Rowan University in Glassboro, N.J., and an employee of Atlantic Electric. Jansson is reproducing Mills' experiments' and those of Jonathan Phillips at Penn State. Jansson's tests are showing.that Mills' process is producing 100 to 1,000 times more heat than would be produced if the same amount of hydrogen was burned, he said. Jansson is also involved in a full review of BlackLight Power for Atlantic Electric of Pleasantville, N.J., for possible investment. He said the company "fully intends to invest" in BlackLight Power. Atlantic Electric supplies power to the southern third of New Jersey, 500,000 customers. The tests are not being conducted at a commercial level, Jansson said, but he thinks the process should be able to be scaled up to that level. "There is significant evidence to more than suggest that the concept and phenomenon is valid," said Jansson, who has worked for Atlantic Electric for 18 years and currently is manager of marketing development for the company. Jansson's tests, taking place at Mills' laboratory in Malvern, will be completed in about 2 weeks. Mills said last August that he hoped in two years to take his company public. The company has issued shares of common stock several times privately since 1991, when 100,000 shares were issued for $75,000. Mills previously said he had 65 shareholders, 10 from Lancaster. Officers and directors of BlackLight Power, as listed in the memorandum filed with the Securities Commission, with a local connection include: Dr. Randell L. Mills, president and chairman of the board. = Frank A. Orban III, vice president and secretary. Orban serves as associate counsel of Armstrong World Industries Inc. = Paul Thibault, treasurer. Thibault, a Lancaster County commissioner, has been treasurer since 1992. = Dr. John Farrell, professor of chemistry at Franklin & Marshall College, worked with Mills on his theory and is an investor, but is not on the board of BlackLight Power. = In the fall of 1992 and the spring of 1993,1,200 additional shares were sold privately for $720,000, according to the offering memorandum filed with the Securities Commission. A 1994-95 private offering consisted of 869 shares of common stock for $1,303,500. An additional 900 shares of common stock was sold to existing'shareholders from April to June of 1996 for $900,000. In September of 1996, the company sold $1 million of common stock to PacifiCorp Holdings Inc., according to the memo, and a second direct investment is being negotiated with PacifiCorp. The latest offering is for $4,950,000 for 3,300 shares of common stock. at $1,500 per share. The stock is being offered in units of $30,000, consisting of 20 shares per unit. In addition, the memo states that an East Coast utility recently presented BlackLight Power with a proposal to invest $2 million. Erin MacLellan, a spokeswoman for PacifiCorp, based in Portland, Ore., said she knew the company had a small investment in BlackLight Power. "We think it's a promising technology that could improve the quality of energy service and delivery," she said. PacifiCorp serves 1.3 milli6n customers in seven western states and 547,000 customers in Australia. Others who see BlackLight Power as a promising technology include several Korean companies, according to Mills. Mills traveled to Korea in February with Shelby Brewer, the former assistant secretary of energy under the Reagan administration, and he said they talked with Korea Electric Power Corp., Daewoo and Hyundai Motor Co. about licensing his energy process. Brewer, who is a consultant to BlackLight Power, will be going back to Korea to continue discussions in two weeks, Mills said. Jim Kendall of Technology Insights believes that Mills' controversial theory and power source are approaching the point that "refusing to see is more of a risk than taking a look at it." "There's a risk to be taken by, standing up and saying you've observed something unusual.... As the process goes forward, there's a risk in refusing to see it." = Elizabeth Cummings also contributed to this story. [Introduction & Background | News | Book | Business | Theory | Astrophysics | = Experiments and Validations] Copyright =A9 1997, BlackLight Power. All Rights Reserved. Last Updated 5/19/97 - More Coming Soon. For information on this website contact: webmaster blacklightpower.com = BlackLight Power Home From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 17:08:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA11082 for billb@eskimo.com; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:08:34 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:08:34 -0700 X-Envelope-From: kurtz asu.edu Fri Jun 27 17:08:30 1997 Received: from post5.inre.asu.edu (post5.inre.asu.edu [129.219.10.175]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA11048 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:08:29 -0700 Received: from kurtz (ss7-13.inre.asu.edu) by asu.edu (PMDF V5.1-8 #7723) with SMTP id <01IKKPHUHLH28Y59UH asu.edu> for vortex-l@eskimo.com; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:14:43 MST Old-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:08:10 -0700 From: Lynn Kurtz Subject: Re: Use bias to avoid false rollaway In-reply-to: <970627210228_72240.1256_EHB92-1 CompuServe.COM> X-Sender: kurtz imap2.asu.edu To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: <3.0.2.32.19970627170810.0069ebf4 imap2.asu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: vortex-l Status: RO X-Status: At 05:02 PM 6/27/97 EDT, you wrote: >To: Vortex > >Horace Heffner describes some of the difficulties achieving a true SMOT >rollaway: > > It seems to me that a rollaway is not a significant event without proven > great care in establishing with all necessary precision that the final > height of the ball is above its starting elevation. > >Right. And as Horace goes on to describe, this is tricker than you might >think. > > For example, I experienced many rollaways using a 1" ball bearing on a > 102 cm length of N gauge track . . . the difficulty was in proving that > the exit elevation was greater then the starting elevation. I removed > the magnet array and the material under the track used to create the > hill numerous times and rolled the ball from one end of the track to the > other. . . . After a rollaway occurred, the magnet array and supports > for the hill were removed to verify the track was still level. Almost > invariably, the ball would roll off the end of the track in the > verification test, indicating that somehow the table had shifted > position ever so slightly. > >I saw the same thing. I decided to place the track to a piece of Formica >topped shelving, a board 40 cm x 70 cm. I put a piece of copier paper folded >four times under one end of the board to give it a slight negative bias. When >you place the ball on the track, it slowly rolls the wrong way. Unfortunately, >I have never achieved rollaway with this configuration. > > > One time I got a very good rollaway, but then discovered it was due to > an envelope full of magnets accidently left about 15 cm from the end of > the track. > >Wow! The tracks must be very smooth. > > > It appears closing the loop is necessary, unless the rollaway is > extreme. Other experiments differ, but the initial and final conditions > are not so different. Success and failure are just less than a hair's > breadth apart. > >Right. And I do not trust experiments that require hair's breadth adjustments. >The effect must be scaled up to the point where it is unambiguous. If the >effect is real, it seems there should be a way to enhance it enough to make an >unequivocal demonstration. > >- Jed > Gosh Jed, for a second there I thought you were talking about Cold Fusion. --Lynn From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 17:10:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA12538; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970627200514.009bbeb0 spectre.mitre.org> X-Sender: eachus spectre.mitre.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 20:05:14 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Robert I. Eachus" Subject: Re: In defense of perpetual motion inventors In-Reply-To: <970626224356_72240.1256_EHB96-1 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"3QBgt1.0.j33.kK5jp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8780 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 06:43 PM 6/26/97 EDT, Jed Rothwell wrote: > On the other hand, NASA insider Chaisson describes the Hubble >telescope as a grand fiasco in his book "The Hubble Wars." I'll have to take Jed to task on this, since Eric is my brother-in-law. NASA messed up big time on the Hubble, and even bigger in the hooraw over the error in shape. I could go into details, but read his book. On the other hand, and at the same, time Eric was at the Space Telescope Science Institute, and the pictures recieved there were much better than those taken with ground-based telescopes. Why? Because, the STSI had planned all along to correct the images to correct for several expected effects. The sperical abberation correction was just one more mathematical transform to add to the process. There was another effect--the correction had the effect of using only 15% of the incident light, so exposure times were longer. This was not noticable in some research, where slewing times were much greater than exposures, but did affect the effort to image very distant galaxies. Incidently, some of the images that Eric took to show that the Hubble was very usable, were published in an article in Scientific American. However, back to the NASA boondoggle, and boy was it one. There were three problems with the Hubble, still not completely fixed, that were much more serious than the sperical abberation. The solar panels they used flex in sunlight and make it difficult to hold the telescope still, and the gyroscopes used were from a (by the time of launch) known bad lot. There are six gyros on the Hubble. Four are needed for best operation, three to use the telescope and two for station keeping. The first repair mission replaced four of the gyros--I think at the time of repair three had permanently failed, and one was flaky--the next repair mission may get the last of the bad gyros out. The wiring problems for the spectroscopes may never get fixed. (Dual power supplies, but if the A side goes out, the spectroscope is dead beacuse the breakers are wired wrong.) How did all this happen? There was a lot of knowledge from the black programs about devices like the Hubble. The program was initially planned to take advantage of it. But the bureaucrats in NASA wanted to keep the program free of military contamination. They also ignored bad news from within NASA if they could. Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 17:23:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA13864; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:16:25 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 20:14:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970627201443_-192888932 emout14.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Interesting discovery Resent-Message-ID: <"ImOC13.0.YO3.NV5jp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8781 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jeff, the bar would be easy to move out if you had a balance system on it. I hope to have an illustration on the web soon. Butch From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 17:26:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA13645; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:18:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:18:16 -0700 From: rvanspaa eisa.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Potassium Transmutation Experiment Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 00:14:43 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <33b4510a.5991675 mail.eisa.net.au> References: <19970627130439.AAA16392 LOCALNAME> In-Reply-To: <19970627130439.AAA16392 LOCALNAME> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2RQxr.0.0L3.6X5jp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8782 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 27 Jun 1997 13:04:41 +0000, Frederick J. Sparber wrote: [snip] >The (P + e*)+ K-39 ----> Ca-40 + 8 Mev neutrino + heat, reaction might This is actually K-39 + P ----> Ca-40 + 8 MeV. If you want to add a negatively charged particle in the front, then you are going to need one at the end as well, and also an anti-neutrino to go along with the neutrino, due to the double conversion (i.e. to a neutron and back to a proton again). Which raises an interesting point: Creation of a such a pair (neutrino-antineutrino), may be another de-exitation mechanism for energetic nuclei, which would allow them to dump energy in an "invisible" fashion. It may be the energy loss mechanism behind biological and LENR transmutations, which allows them to proceed without the "incandescent chicken" effect. Because no electron or positron is produced (externally) by such a reaction mechanism, ALL the energy would be carried by the neutrino-antineutrino pair, making it virtually totally invisible. This means that with the conservation of energy "problem" removed, reaction mechanisms would be determined by other conservation rules such as baryon number and spin etc. [snip] Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.eisa.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." PS - no SPAM thanks! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 17:50:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA19241; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:43:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:43:04 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 20:38:54 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex cc: John Schnurer Subject: Virus warning AOL Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"yEsdY2.0.Zi4.Mu5jp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8783 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This just in from NCSA Go to www.ncsa.com/aoltrojan This is an AOL [and other] password cracking trojan NCSA warn EXTREME CAUTION NCSA = National Computer Security Association JHS From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 18:06:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA22247; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:58:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:58:10 -0700 Date: 27 Jun 97 20:57:14 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Ragland triode data Message-ID: <970628005714_100433.1541_BHG50-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"6JXXW2.0.RR5.X66jp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8784 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott, > Our new calorimeter has exhibited a small but noticeable zero > drift which looks like an erratic hysteresis in the thermistors. > When we cycle the water temperature up to 40C and back down to > 20C, we sometimes find the delta-T apparently shifted by about > 0.03 degrees C. Since two sensors are involved, this could be due > to changes in one of them or in both of them. Does anyone have any > experience with thermistor repeatability at this level? I'd suggest damp. If the thermistors are showing a lower resistance then this will give a reading of higher temp - assuming neg temp coeff components. I had a bit of a problem with damp, it would be my first line of enquiry. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 18:18:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA21835; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33B46434.265B math.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:09:08 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Steve Jones' Radiation Reduction work References: <970627071639_100433.1541_BHG66-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6gsrG.0.0L5.pH6jp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8785 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris Tinsley wrote: > > Barry, > > > Jones says nothing about this below, but if we put 2 + 2 together > > it **sure looks like** Jones has tested some version of the > > Cincinnatti groups experiment with some form of cooperation and > > found it to be in gross error. Bob Bass apparently didn't see the > > need to include this in the recent press release. :-) > > My, my. Is that how you "scientists" think? Are you saying that you don't think Steve Jones was testing the Cincinnatti groups work---even though it was publicly announced by Hal Fox (speaking for the Cincinnatti group, who were present at the time) that Jones would do so, and several months later Jones actual finished and reported a campaign of experiments of the same type? > You take what you think is a possibility, and then from > that say that someone else is a crook > because your possibility is a fact? I never said anyone is a crook, if you look carefully at the words used above. I said I think Jones has investigated and found wanting the Thorium claims. I do think Bass's "press release" was hyperbolic to the point where most of its audience will dismiss it, though. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 18:26:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA22904; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33B46636.3A6C math.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:17:42 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Steve Jones' Radiation Reduction work References: <970627150759_76570.2270_FHU43-1 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kjtuV2.0.ob5._P6jp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8786 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gene wrote: > > As to theories of plating out and standard trivial ideas of where > the Th and U went, you can't seriously think that these have not > been carefully addressed both by CETI and the Cincinnati people! I *hope* they have been addressed, but I do not *know* they have been addressed. I never underestimate the possibility for anyone to make stupid mistakes, especially when they are claiming to have made a radical new discovery. The only thing I do know is that in experiment telivised from CETI, it looked like they had the apparatus configured in the way that gives bogus results----i.e. the detector (a mere Geiger, for one) positioned near the reservoir, not the cell. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 19:45:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA02759; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 19:33:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 19:33:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: 27 Jun 97 22:31:22 EDT From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Subject: "Hubble Wars" book Message-ID: <970628023121_72240.1256_EHB39-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"Z0yXf.0.1h.GW7jp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8787 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex I said this book described the Hubble as a "grand fiasco." Robert I. Eachus, with inside knowledge, writes: I'll have to take Jed to task on this, since Eric is my brother-in-law. NASA messed up big time on the Hubble, and even bigger in the hooraw over the error in shape. I could go into details, but read his book. On the other hand, and at the same, time Eric was at the Space Telescope Science Institute, and the pictures received there were much better than those taken with ground-based telescopes . . . You are not taking me to task. I did not mean that Hubble is a scientific fiasco. I cannot judge the scientific value of the project; it is are over my head (literally and figuratively). I mean that the book describes fiascos in management, budgeting, engineering and politics. That's bad enough! A project can be deeply flawed in these areas, yet still produce good science. Large corporations like IBM or Rolls Royce sometimes have poor management and screwed up production, yet they sell rock solid products. If the supercollider had been built it might have produced scientifically good results, but in many other ways it would have remained a fiasco and blot on the reputations of everyone involved. Overall it was an excellent book. Congratulations to your brother-in-law. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jun 27 21:44:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA26874; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 21:41:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 21:41:26 -0700 Message-ID: <33B4945C.2A17D69F microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 14:04:36 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: Why ANY SMOT Rollaway is Way Over Ou X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2603538956241572A04A149D" Resent-Message-ID: <"NfVi_.0.dZ6.rN9jp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8788 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2603538956241572A04A149D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I have attached a Gif of a series of simple test I just did on one of my SMOT Mk2 ramps. I shows that the SMOT Mk2 ramps are very lossy and its NOT just because of friction. It also explains why any SMOT rollaway, even lower level ones ARE Ou! Part of the SMOT puzzle is trying to understand why the losses are related to the magnet array spacing. Reduce SMOT Mk2 magnet array spacing from 30mm to 20mm and losses go up 350%!!!!!!! Just thought I would throw this one in as we seem to be getting too concerned about levels and such. Even with good N gauge track, SMOT ramps eat the balls's hard won kinetic energy. Look at the attached Gif, study the data, TRY it yourself and scratch your head. 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(from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA03579; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 01:26:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 01:26:15 -0700 Sender: barry math.ucla.edu Message-ID: <33B4CA99.7D2A math.ucla.edu> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 01:26:01 -0700 From: Barry Merriman Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Little CC: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Energy Release Problem with 232Th reaction References: <199706280505.AAA11348 natasha.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IfFWo1.0.rt.dgCjp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8789 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > Am I missing something? > > Assuming that the Cincinatti group's experiment does not > explode into an incandescent fireball every time it is run, can > anyone offer any possible explanation for the disappearance of > this energy? > To reiterate what Martin said before, the problem is more general than that. You show that Bass's specific mechanism does not make even remote energy accounting sense. But more generally, we are told that the heavy element Th decomposes into light elements Cu & Ti, predominantly, by mass. These elements are low in neutrons, high in protons, and high in binding energy per nucleon compared to the Th. Thus, you will always have (1) major surplus of both neutrons and energy (2) a major deficit of protons This means a comparable amount of other material---i.e. milli-moles---must be involved in the reaction, taking up neutrons, giving up protons, and absorbing energy. If you hypothesis that the other material is just H from the H2O, you get bass's mechanism, which you show is way out of energy balance---so there would still have to be milli-moles of other nuclear rearrangments of some other material to take up the energy. Now, its always easy to soak up an energy excess by breaking heavier light elements into even lighter ones---for instance, you could suggest that O16 fissions in 8 D's, which needs 0.1 amu ~ 100 MeV of energy. So a proponent could simply hypothesize that you 200MeV excess simply breaks 2 O16's in 16 D's. This nuclear arithmetic makes it clear that its very easy to make up mult-body (uh, lets see, that was altogether a 10 body reaction to get Th, H, and O to Cu, Ti and D's conserving everything) that can take of the slack for any "observed transmutation" of a mass of element X into an equal mass of anything else, as long as I have at my disposable a large supply of H (provides protons, soaks up neutrons by making D's) and any element heavier than D (e.g. O) that I can fission into D and H's to take up the excess energy. In fact, you can easily prove THEREOM: balance of neutrons, protons and energy can always be achieved for the "transmutation" of mass M0 of heavy element E0 -> Mass's M1,...,Mk of light elements E1,..,Ek producing only H and D as a byproduct, as long as there is available a sufficient reservoir of H and one element E* heavier than D and lighter than iron (e.g. O). COROLLARY: it suffices to have a sufficiently large reservoir of H2O. The algortihm is simple: if you need protons, uses H's, to get rid of excess neutrons, make n + H = D's, and to soak up the extra energy, fission your E* into H's and and D's. Its an excercise for the reader to show that you can transmute anything into anything else and balance everything using only a reservoir of H2O to take up the slack and producing only H and D and at most one other light element as a product. But heres the point: because such arithmetic is so general, it is meaningless---unless they actually measure the millimoles of D (or the other byproducts) that must be produced. And they didn't, it seems. -- Barry Merriman Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math email: barry math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 28 04:01:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA24170; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 04:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 04:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: 28 Jun 97 06:56:39 EDT From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Mail Subject: Re: Guest Book Facilities Message-ID: <970628105639_100060.173_JHB54-2 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"BF8hs2.0.av5.rwEjp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8790 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg, I wonder if you have changed anything to do with your email posting procedure. In the last few days the false addressing of your vortex-l mail has stopped and your stuff is getting to me in the correct way via the list server. One or two other subscribers are still bypassing the server and coming to me as private mail, but their volume is negligible compared with your smotting. Norman From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 28 04:18:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA24827; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 04:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 04:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: 28 Jun 97 07:13:33 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Steve Jones' Radiation Reduction wor Message-ID: <970628111333_100433.1541_BHG75-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"7uXes1.0.r36.X9Fjp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8791 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Barry, > Are you saying that you don't think Steve Jones was testing the > Cincinnatti groups work---even though it was publicly announced by > Hal Fox (speaking for the Cincinnatti group, who were present at > the time) that Jones would do so, and several months later Jones > actual finished and reported a campaign of experiments of the same > type? That's right, I don't think Jones did test their process. Bass denies that vigorously. I do vaguely recall conversations with the Cincinnati group in January 1996, and this subject coming up. If my memory serves me correctly, I did communicate to them my own view: that Steve was A Bit Of A Cad, and possibly even A Bounder, not the sort of chap one would wish to have in one's club - that sort of thing. As to his own series of experiments, I frankly have no knowledge of that. I could guess, basing my guesses on his past activities, but what's the point in diong that? > I never said anyone is a crook, if you look carefully at the words > used above. I said I think Jones has investigated and found > wanting the Thorium claims. Naturally I deeply regret having misinterpreted your phrasing, but it seems to me that only one interpretation is possible: that you assumed that Bass knew about these Jones experiments (which you assumed were CG replications), and that therefore Bass was deliberately concealing information which would be detrimental to the CG's credibility. It was not so much the accusation which bothered me, it was the mode of thought displayed: that of raising assumption to the status of fact. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 28 05:14:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id FAA26677; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 05:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 05:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: 28 Jun 97 08:09:09 EDT From: Gene <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: VORTEX Subject: Re: Steve Jones' Radiation Reduction work Message-ID: <970628120908_76570.2270_FHU38-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"vGaE13.0.hW6.7-Fjp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8792 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Are you saying that you don't think Steve Jones was testing >the Cincinnatti groups work---even though it was publicly >announced by Hal Fox (speaking for the Cincinnatti group, >who were present at the time) that Jones would do so, and several >months later Jones actual finished and reported a campaign >of experiments of the same type? I am saying that ANYTHING that issues from Steve Jones relating to cold fusion and transmutaiton is not to be believed or given one iota of merit. I don't care what he has investigated or not investigated. I have no desire to wade into the cesspool of deception and political double-dealing that is part and parcel of Steve Jones's entire being. Steve Jones is a non-scientist politician, period. That is my view. If others try to take a more chritable view and wade into the Jones morass of deception, it's their choice... I find it most interesting that even the bigots at the MIT Plasma Fusion Center -- e.g. Richard Petrasso, had more visceral contempt for Jones than they had of P&F. In fact, Petrasso's last kind words to me in 1991 were (I'm paraphrasing) ,"We would work with Pons and Fleischmann, even today, but not Jones..." Gene Mallove From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 28 06:09:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA01319; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 06:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 06:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 09:04:13 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex , John Schnurer Subject: Water Math Help, please Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"rHp7K2.0.XK.CpGjp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8793 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Vo., Can one or more of you please help with the following: How much electric power, volts, amps, time required to electrolyse water? Eg, 'xxxxxx' = 'y' grams, cc at stp, O2 = 2.'y' grams, cc at stp, H2 VAT = watts/sec = btu Burning 'y' grams, cc at stp O2 and 2H2 = ''z' watts/sec, btu,hp Trying to get a simple low key i/o figure set for water electrolysis in an attempt to correlate some of the various contribution to water power. Thanks, J From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 28 06:35:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA29325; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 06:34:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 06:34:39 -0700 Message-ID: <33B511EB.726684B microtronics.com.au> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:00:19 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Guest Book Facilities X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <970628105639_100060.173_JHB54-2 CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7TPQo1.0.3A7.kBHjp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8794 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Norman Horwood wrote: > > Greg, > > I wonder if you have changed anything to do with your email posting procedure. > In the last few days the false addressing of your vortex-l mail has stopped and > your stuff is getting to me in the correct way via the list server. > > One or two other subscribers are still bypassing the server and coming to me as > private mail, but their volume is negligible compared with your smotting. > > Norman Hi Norman, I have upgraded to Netscape 4.0, but that was about 2 weeks ago. Bill did say that the list server had changed a few days ago. -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 28 07:55:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA07475; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 07:54:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 07:54:02 -0700 Reply-To: < snip.net> From: "Mike Carrell" To: Subject: Re: Magnet Configurations Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 10:52:10 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19970628145421589.AAA119 default> Resent-Message-ID: <"7aZro1.0.hq1.9MIjp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8795 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The recent discussions of "T" and "Y" configurations remind me of a video from Japan about the Kawai motor which was seen by a number of people a year or so back. There were graphical illustrations and demonstrations of a kind of flux switching which strongly resemble the current discussions. These insights apparently led to the Kawai motor configuration, which involves flux gating and switching and for which 300+% overunity is claimed in the patent. I know of no further development or manufacture. Does anyone have and info? Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 28 08:32:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA11783; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 08:31:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 08:31:36 -0700 From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 11:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970628113101_913590132 emout01.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: energy gone Resent-Message-ID: <"y-GYq3.0.1u2.NvIjp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8796 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: B. Merryman writes. ........................................... > anyone offer any possible explanation for the disappearance of > this energy? .............................................................................. ......... Yes I can! It's the reverse genesis process. Positive energy = neg grav potential gravity = G(dp/dt)/ccr +energy = force x distance +energy = (dp/dt)(distance) according to Mach's principle -energy = (remote reaction) distance -energy = G(dp/dt)/ccr (distance) G(dp/dt)/ccr x (mass of the universe) = 1 therefore, - energy = force x distance The equations reflecting negative energy are symmetic with the postive energy equations, however, they are written in terms of fields. Another and better way of looking at things. I published in IE. Conculsion: the energy of an evanscent wave within and electron cluster disappears. Why does not this happen everywhere? The process does not conserve angular momentum. The angular momentum of a spin one photon + spin 2 gravitation does not = 0 Phonons within an electron cluster exchange angular momentum allowing the genesis process to take place. Patent pending: A device to produce electrical energy directly from the process. Frank Znidarsic From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 28 08:33:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id IAA12017; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 08:32:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 08:32:16 -0700 Message-ID: <33B52D7E.774366DA microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:57:58 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server NeoTech , List Server Newman , List Server Vortex Subject: Site Update ....... Ou Patents X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"G55LD3.0.Yx2.-vIjp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8797 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I have updated my site with Fred Epps and my Ou patent list. Check it out. Got any more to add? Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ From gwatson microtronics.com.au Sat Jun 28 09:13:06 1997 Received: from orca.microtronics.com.au (root orca.microtronics.com.au [203.30.55.1]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA20297; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 09:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppp.microtronics.com.au (ppp0m.microtronics.com.au [203.30.55.112]) by orca.microtronics.com.au (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA06991; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 01:42:05 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <33B536DF.190DEB54 microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 01:38:00 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex , Bill Beaty William Beaty Subject: Lost Mail X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I seem to be missing mail. I get posts which reference posts which I have never seen. Is anyone else having this problem? Bill, does your mail server (freenrg & vortex) retry when it get an error when sending out mail?? Feeling somewhat cut off. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Phone / PC Fax ...... 61 8 8270 2737 E-mail .............. gwatson microtronics.com.au Home Page ........... Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 28 09:53:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA30300; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 09:51:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 09:51:55 -0700 Message-ID: <33B5402D.77A7ADBF microtronics.com.au> Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 02:17:41 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server Vortex Subject: SMOT Losses X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6px7V.0.MP7.g4Kjp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8799 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All, I have updated my site with the SMOT Energy Loss experiment. Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/smotlosses.html The losses seem to me to be much too large for eddy currents or B/H curve movements. I need a ferrite ball. Any ideas? Anyone else tried it? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Phone / PC Fax ...... 61 8 8270 2737 E-mail .............. gwatson microtronics.com.au Home Page ........... Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From JNaudin509 aol.com Sat Jun 28 10:51:02 1997 Received: from emout15.mail.aol.com (emout15.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.41]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA07562; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 10:50:58 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Received: (from root localhost) by emout15.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id NAA24226; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 13:50:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 13:50:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970628135025_191238978 emout15.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: gwatson microtronics.com.au, billb@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Lost Mail Status: RO X-Status: On 28/06/1997 18:18:02 , Greg Watson wrote : << Hi All, I seem to be missing mail. I get posts which reference posts which I have never seen. Is anyone else having this problem? Bill, does your mail server (freenrg & vortex) retry when it get an error when sending out mail?? Feeling somewhat cut off. Best Regards, Greg Watson >> Hi All, I have the same problem as Greg, LOST and DELAYED ( frequently 24 hours )...Emails......?? For whose want to send me some importants informations you may use the FEEDBACK topic in my web site at : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin ( France / GMT+2 ) Email : JNaudin509 aol.com my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/ WWPager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/747846 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 28 11:19:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA10728; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 11:11:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 11:11:00 -0700 Date: 28 Jun 97 14:10:05 EDT From: Gene <76570.2270 compuserve.com> To: VORTEX Subject: Message-ID: <970628181004_76570.2270_FHU53-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"5hNiM.0.Yd2.qELjp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8801 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I got the following quotes from a colleague, Dr. Marcello Truzzi, who deals with the sociology of science. The nice part about these is that they are perfectly symmetric! "Skeptics" of anomalies can apply them to "True Believers" and "True Believers" can apply them to "Skeptics"! Gene Mallove ****** The person who knows everything has the most to learn. The less a man knows, the easier it is to convince him he knows it all. Nothing annoys me more than a man who thinks he knows it all and does. Feel sorry for the man who has been educated beyond his intelligence. The only successful substitute for a lack of brain is silence. The more a man knows himself, the less he says about it. A wise man never blows his knows. If a little learning is a dangerous thing, then most people are safe. Knowing a lot is of no value if what you know isn't so. An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you just found out. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 28 21:59:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA23329; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 21:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 21:53:05 -0700 (PDT) From: HLafonte aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:51:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970629005130_-226341846 emout14.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnet Configurations Resent-Message-ID: <"0Dqal3.0.Ki5.keUjp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8802 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mike said> The recent discussions of "T" and "Y" configurations remind me of a video from Japan about the Kawai motor which was seen by a number of people a year or so back. There were graphical illustrations and demonstrations of a kind of flux switching which strongly resemble the current discussions. These insights apparently led to the Kawai motor configuration, which involves flux gating and switching and for which 300+% overunity is claimed in the patent. I know of no further development or manufacture. Does anyone have and info? Mike Carrell Mike, The tapes that I saw where of a magnet placed on the end of a steel bar. Then the guy used the other end of the bar to pick up a small piece of steel. He then placed an additional magnet at the end of the bar that still held the original magnet on it. He placed it on the opposite side of the bar so the flux that was going down the steel bar, was drawn directly across the end of the bar between the two magnets who's poles were only seperated by the thicknest of the steel bar. Now the flux went from magnet to magnet and never ventured down the length of the bar to the other end, and the small piece of steel now feel off. I have a copy of the patent you speak of, but like most overunity patents they just never seem to get to market. Maybe if they would put the motor in a car drive it across the United States to New York, then crash through the glass window in front of the Good Morning America show, Jump out and say, " all the way from California to New York, without using one damn drop of fuel!!! But instead they just sit in the patent office taking up space when they could be put to much better use as toilet paper. Butch LaFonte From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jun 28 23:24:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA28512; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 17:56:47 +1000 Message-Id: <199706290756.RAA15908 main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Water Math Help, please Resent-Message-ID: <"NatHY3.0.Qz6.fyVjp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8803 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:04 AM 6/28/97 -0400, you wrote: > > Dear Vo., > > Can one or more of you please help with the following: > > How much electric power, volts, amps, time required to >electrolyse water? > Eg, 'xxxxxx' = 'y' grams, cc at stp, O2 > = 2.'y' grams, cc at stp, H2 > VAT = watts/sec = btu > > Burning 'y' grams, cc at stp O2 and 2H2 = ''z' watts/sec, btu,hp > > > Trying to get a simple low key i/o figure set for water electrolysis >in an attempt to correlate some of the various contribution to water power. > > > Thanks, > > J > > >you may care to look at my article from the free energy encycloedia at the Zenergy Site avaialble from my web page listing or get a complete copy from Mirror site http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/lab/1135 Main Page http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel Geoff From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 29 00:26:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA24904; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:25:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:25:18 -0700 Date: 29 Jun 97 03:24:31 EDT From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com> To: Vortex Mail Subject: Re: Guest Book Facilities Message-ID: <970629072431_100060.173_JHB9-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"cvQiw1.0.-46.TtWjp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8804 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg, >> I have upgraded to Netscape 4.0, but that was about 2 weeks ago. Bill did say that the list server had changed a few days ago. << Well, between you some of the strange mailing has stopped - lets hope that everyone gets Netscape 4.0 soon. Thanks for the info. Regards, Norman From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 29 01:11:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id BAA05512; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 01:09:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 01:09:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970629195019.00d1a448 mail.eskimo.com> X-Sender: ghawk mail.eskimo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 12:50:19 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Gary Hawkins Subject: Re: Quotes Resent-Message-ID: <"7qDMV1.0.2M1.5XXjp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8805 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I don't mean to minimize Gene's quotes, but here are some more: Putt's Law: "Technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage, and those who manage what they do not understand." Harry S. Truman: "It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." Tom Robbins: "Humanity has advanced, when it has advanced, not because it has been sober, responsible, and cautious, but because it has been playful, rebellious, and immature." Alice Kahn: "For a list of all the ways technology has failed to improve the quality of life, please press three." M. Cartmill: "As an adolescent I aspired to lasting fame, I craved factual certainty, and I thirsted for a meaningful vision of human life - so I became a scientist. This is like becoming an archbishop so you can meet girls." Oscar Wilde: "The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius." Ellen Parr: "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity." H.P. Lovecraft: "The most merciful thing in the world . . . is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." Unknown: "After all is said and done, a lot more will be said than done." Ralph Waldo Emerson: To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty; to find the best in others; to leave the world a bi t better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded. =================================== At 02:10 PM 6/28/97 EDT: >I got the following quotes from a colleague, Dr. Marcello Truzzi, who >deals with the sociology of science. The nice part about these is that >they are perfectly symmetric! "Skeptics" of anomalies can apply them to >"True Believers" and "True Believers" can apply them to "Skeptics"! > >Gene Mallove > >****** > > >The person who knows everything has the most to learn. > >The less a man knows, the easier it is to convince him he knows it >all. > >Nothing annoys me more than a man who thinks he knows it all and >does. > >Feel sorry for the man who has been educated beyond his >intelligence. > >The only successful substitute for a lack of brain is silence. > >The more a man knows himself, the less he says about it. > >A wise man never blows his knows. > >If a little learning is a dangerous thing, then most people are safe. > >Knowing a lot is of no value if what you know isn't so. > >An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you just found out. > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 29 02:19:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id CAA09225; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 02:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 02:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 03:23:06 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: gwatson www.microtronics.com.au Subject: Mail changes - FFSmot Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2BXTj3.0.3G2.BXYjp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8806 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg & ALL As "our World turns", you're missing mail and my server is changing from 207.17.190.2 to 209.64.40.14 - go figure?!!! Can they DO THAT? hummm.. I wanted to ask if you got my FFSmot gif? But until my end settles down and re-recalls my password(s) I can't send it.. hopefully soon if you'd like to see "Fumble-Fingers Smot"....designed for Jed & I to close the loop. I can send mail, but have no FTP (& Zmodem didn't seem to make it in Binary,, will keep you advised).. GOOD NIGHT! :} se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 29 04:21:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id EAA14439; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 04:19:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 04:19:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: The A to Z of The Elements. (Almost) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 11:18:26 +0000 Message-ID: <19970629111824.AAA19086 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"70s9L1.0.XX3.QJajp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8807 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Vortex: FWIW. There are 5A - Z "particles" in any atom or isotope: 2A positive particles 2A - Z negative particles A - Z neutrinos Z external electrons 1, When A is equal to 2Z the atom is most stable. 2, When A - 2Z is greater than 1, the atom can emit electrons, neutrinos, gamma rays or helium atoms. 3, When A - 2Z is less than 1, the atom can emit a positron or absorb an electron, concurrently creating an internal neutrino. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 29 07:21:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA30319; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 07:20:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 07:20:01 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Neutrino Chlorine 37 Reaction Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 14:19:54 +0000 Message-ID: <19970629141953.AAA4645 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"_iJRH.0.aP7.Gycjp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8808 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Vortex: The well known reaction between a Solar neutrino and 17 Chlorine 37 to yield 18 Argon 37 (which in 35 days captures an electron and turns back into 17 Chlorine 37) is explored. Assuming 5A - Z particles in the 17 Cl 37 = 185 - 17 = 168 total 2A = 74 +, 2A - Z = 74 - 17 = 57 -, A - Z neutrinos = 37 - 17 = 20, Z external electrons = 17 Total; 74 + 57 + 20 + 17 = 168 particles The 18 Argon 37 after the neutrino "collision": 5A - Z particles in the 18 Ar 37 = 185 - 18 = 167 total 2A = 74 +, 2A - Z = 74 - 18 = 56 -, A -Z neutrinos = 37 - 18 = 19, Z external electrons = 18 Total; 74 + 56 + 19 + 18 = 167 particles Conclusion: The incoming neutrino knocks an electron and neutrino off the 17 Chlorine 37 nucleus turning it into 18 Argon 37 for 35 days. Then the 18 Argon 37 nucleus recaptures one of the electrons, makes a neutrino, and turns back into 17 Chlorine 37. :-) Neutrinos beget neutrinos and make "Dark Matter"? Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 29 07:50:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id HAA01525; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 07:49:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 07:49:20 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 10:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970629104845_-192755552 emout02.mail.aol.com> To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Tinsley's Ragland Cell Resent-Message-ID: <"OcKCF2.0.lN.lNdjp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8809 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Chris, Did you run your Ragland triode cell in open or closed mode? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 29 11:30:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA17609; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 11:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 11:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: 29 Jun 97 14:25:35 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Tinsley's Ragland Cell Message-ID: <970629182535_100433.1541_BHG78-1 CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"af1SU.0.3J4.nagjp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8810 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Tom, > Did you run your Ragland triode cell in open or closed mode? Open mode. Chris From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 29 11:53:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA29917; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 11:52:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 11:52:15 -0700 X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Snell's Law and Solar Neutrinos Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 18:52:01 +0000 Message-ID: <19970629185159.AAA12080 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"zYGmC2.0.NJ7.Vxgjp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8811 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To Vortex: Snell's Law for total internal reflection of an electromagnetic wave: Sin (O*)critical = (e2/e1)^1/2, thus if the permittivity e of the Sun ie., the velocity of light is variable between where the neutrinos are created and the surface, perhaps the Sun is trapping the "missing neutrinos" and they are just bouncing around in there? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 29 12:21:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA23373; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 12:19:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 12:19:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 12:18:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199706291918.MAA19777 Au.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: tessien oro.net (Ross Tessien) Subject: Re: Snell's Law and Solar Neutrinos Resent-Message-ID: <"tj7DB1.0.6j5.FLhjp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8812 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >To Vortex: > >Snell's Law for total internal reflection of an electromagnetic wave: > >Sin (O*)critical = (e2/e1)^1/2, thus if the permittivity e of the >Sun ie., the velocity of light is variable between where the neutrinos >are created and the surface, perhaps the Sun is trapping the >"missing neutrinos" and they are just bouncing around in there? :-) > You cannot accumulate anything over a long period of time. If you do, you just build up a resevoir and then they spill out at the same rate they are produced. The only way to support a deficit emission of something created would be for them to be converted into some other form, ie destroyed. This is the same problem that aether flow gravitational theories must address and show that the aether is somehow converted into something different inside a body and then emitted again in that new form, for those who back such notions (ie not me, as I work with waves and not pressure of flow of substance). Such theories lead to a certain thrust downward due to one interaction, and then a different lesser thrust upward due to a different interaction. So, for the neutrinos, the deficit can be explained either by the production rate being in error, or by the neutrinos being annihilated, or by their being converted into some other form we are not noticing as resulting from the neutrinos. ie, if a neutrino type A and neutrino type B exist, and they meet and annihilate to form a gamma, then that gamma could be absorbed by scattering prior to escaping the solar surface and the energy departs as heat. We then would not notice or know this. Alternately, if our supposition that every nuclear reaction produces a neutrino is incorrect, and the missing mass becomes "spacetime" rather than another "particle", then you have another reason for the neutrino deficit. You also then have your first reason to explain the solar coronal heating, ie the emission of the substance of the universe escaping from a fluidized bed of standing waves in aether, and thus suffering a pressure drop and accelerating any particles in that vicinity to high velocities and ergo temperatures. Ross Tessien From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jun 29 13:08:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA26993; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 13:05:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 13:05:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Snell's Law and Solar Neutrinos Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 20:03:57 +0000 Message-ID: <19970629200356.AAA6315 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"MFiKR.0.hb6.60ijp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8813 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 19:19:45, Sun, 29 Jun 97, Ross Tessien wrote: >The only way to support a deficit emission of something created >would be for them to be converted into some other form, ie destroyed. >So, for the neutrinos, the deficit can be explained either by the >production rate being in error, or by being annihilated, or by >their being converted into some other form we are not noticing as >resulting from the neutrinos. Accepting that neutrinos rarely interact with matter, does not preclude their interacting with photons (of whatever energy) and possibly "annihilating" to heat. Figuring 2E7 K, in the "nuclear reaction zone" of the Sun, there should be about 2.76E-16 joules worth of photons bouncing around. Or at the surface-corona, 7E3 joules/cm^2 worth of photons. Plenty enough to "annihilate" neutrinos that are in a Snell's Law trap. Any idea what the photon-neutrino annihilation cross section is? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 30 00:13:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA00167; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 00:09:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 00:09:25 -0700 Message-ID: <33B75A98.7B1645BD microtronics.com.au> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:34:56 +0930 From: Greg Watson Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List Server Freenrg CC: List Server NeoTech , List Server Newman , List Server Vortex Subject: Space Drives X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"no-OD1.0.H2.akrjp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8814 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have updated my OU patent list to link with the Space Drives Archive. If you are into reactionless drives, this is the BEST list I have ever seen. I have always had a soft spot for these units as I was very heavy into Analog, John Campbell, and the Dean Drive many years ago. Even built one. I couldn't get it to lift off though. Then I spent the time to understand why it didn't work as claimed. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson Phone / PC Fax ...... 61 8 8270 2737 E-mail .............. gwatson microtronics.com.au Home Page ........... Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 30 06:58:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA31505; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 06:56:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 06:56:39 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970630095741.0099b700 spectre.mitre.org> X-Sender: eachus spectre.mitre.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:57:41 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Robert I. Eachus" Subject: Re: "Hubble Wars" book Cc: Vortex In-Reply-To: <970628023121_72240.1256_EHB39-2 CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"t0xNU2.0.Bi7.Mixjp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8815 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:31 PM 6/27/97 EDT, Jed Rothwell wrote: >You are not taking me to task. I did not mean that Hubble is a scientific >fiasco. I cannot judge the scientific value of the project; it is are over my >head (literally and figuratively). I just wanted to make it clear that "The Hubble Wars" is describing almost totally incompetant management by NASA, and how the project (mostly) survived it. The STSI in particular has been mostly free of bureaucracy and has done lots of good science. A large part of the book is about the conflicts between the Space Telescope Science Institute and NASA over control of the Hubble. > ...I mean that the book describes fiascos in >management, budgeting, engineering and politics. That's bad enough! A project >can be deeply flawed in these areas, yet still produce good science. Large >corporations like IBM or Rolls Royce sometimes have poor management and >screwed up production, yet they sell rock solid products. NASA has several centers of excellence. The Hubble project wasn't run by any of them. That is the politest way I can say it. ...If the supercollider >had been built it might have produced scientifically good results, but in many >other ways it would have remained a fiasco and blot on the reputations of >everyone involved. Don't get me started. Congress was right to pull the plug on the SSC, and the only shame was that they couldn't jail some of the bureaucrats involved. While the scientists were trying to deal with major design issues, the bureaucrats were both handing out construction contracts and interfering in the scientific decisions for political/snit-fit reasons. (In particular, there were magnet building contacts awarded and magnets built before the scientists had decided the right bore size and field strength.) Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 30 09:20:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id JAA09197; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:06:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Solar Neutrino Geothermal Heat? Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:05:18 +0000 Message-ID: <19970630160516.AAA23876 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"9USTJ.0.bF2.Pczjp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8816 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Vortex: Could the lens effect of the World's ocean be focusing some 2.6E31 Solar neutrinos/second (which should behave like light) about halfway to the Earth's core, be providing some geothermal heating? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 30 12:41:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA28255; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:28:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:28:49 -0700 Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:28:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Martin Sevior To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: No more SMOTTing for a while. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3VUdC.0.Pv6.lZ0kp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8817 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I've played with the Mark 2 beta 3 SMOT for a while. I can't get anything resembling Over-Unity. It is clear that my method of playing with the device, then packing up the ramp magnets, track etc is not a good way to work with such a delicate system. I can't set aside a space to leave it in a working condition between plays. Given all this I'm stopping "work" on SMOTs for a while. I think that if I could have build a decent off-ramp catcher I may have had more luck. As it is very little energy from the fall of the ball goes into pushing the ball horizontally. I'll do the ball capture tests that Greg Watson suggested then stop work on SMOTs. I'll wait to see if others can make the kits go before getting back into the game. I have no regrets about the time I've spent on this. I've learnt a lot about magnetic fields and my 3-year-old has had a fun time playing with it too. Good luck everyone and Greg, it would be great to a video tape of closed loop SMOT going. It was my fantasy to have a live CuSeeMe feed of a SMOT going forever. Oh well, may be someone else could do it. Cheers Martin Sevior From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 30 13:39:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA05255; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:19:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:19:25 -0700 Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:25:20 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2 november To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: hlafonte aol.com Subject: Balance System Fax Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RMRjY3.0.1I1.CJ1kp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8819 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Butch, Yes, received your Fax Friday (at my office, so didn't get it until today). 1st glance (will need to study Drawings & 'patent?' of Bertil Werjefelt of poly-tech (usa) corp.) I'm intrigued by your scissor X balance system, trying now to see how it is to be used in/on the Magnetic Battery / Generator. Vortex group & Newman battles have taught me to 'beware' of any circuit that has an in-line Battery ANYWHERE in the system though.. be it starter -recharable -booster -continuator (especially!) since the 'excitor' e-mail and the/it's eventual battery decay. Will study more in the next few days.. Thanks for the FAX :) ps. (yes, I know if I didn't have an in-line BAT. in my car I wouldn't get far :) se ------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2 diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 30 17:50:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA26032; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:12:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199706301712.KAA15982 Au.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: tessien oro.net (Ross Tessien) Subject: Re: Snell's Law and Solar Neutrinos Resent-Message-ID: <"hwurM2.0.JK6.kx0kp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8818 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >At 19:19:45, Sun, 29 Jun 97, Ross Tessien wrote: > >>The only way to support a deficit emission of something created >>would be for them to be converted into some other form, ie destroyed. > >>So, for the neutrinos, the deficit can be explained either by the >>production rate being in error, or by being annihilated, >Any idea what the photon-neutrino annihilation cross section is? :-) It is also possible that they have "imaginary charge". Where this simply means a resonance at a phase angle of 90 or 270, where what we call "real charge" are particles with resonances at 0 and 180, and refer to as "positive" and "negative" respectively. If so, then proximity inside the sun would allow them to annihilate with one another. But after spreading out of the sun their separation distance would pretty much preclude further interaction, and if their distribution is about uniform there would be no net "imaginary positive" or "imaginary negative" clouds of particles to induce a net effect. This is the same thing in a plasma like in a Tokomak, the plasma of real charged particles remains essentially neutral. That neutrinos have imaginary charge is not accepted. And personally, I hate using the word "imaginary" for this sort of discussion because I don't think that these things, if they really exist, are either imaginary or virtual. Perhaps "out of phase" particles to evoke the notion that they are not going to interact with matter at resonant phase angles at ninety degrees to real matter. Or maybe ortho matter for orthogonal phase angle. or even "Normal" matter :-) At least one gets the sense that the stuff is out there, but doesn't want to interact, and one gets the sense that the reason it doesn't want to interact is because the phase angle of the resonance is normal to that of most matter in the universe, at least all the stuff we know about in our material objects at hand. Ross From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 30 18:39:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA15826; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:33:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Snell's Law and Solar Neutrinos Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 01:31:26 +0000 Message-ID: <19970701013124.AAA23510 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"3OP1T.0.Bt3.9v5kp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8821 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:12 PM 6/30/97 +0000, Ross Tessien wrote: > >It is also possible that they have "imaginary charge". Where this simply >means a resonance at a phase angle of 90 or 270, where what we call "real >charge" are particles with resonances at 0 and 180, and refer to as >"positive" and "negative" respectively. Okay, phase and sign of charge are synonymous,and if the neutrino phase is 90 degrees from "world phase" and it's charge conjugate is also 90 degrees from the "world phase" charge conjugate, it is chargeless. Good point, Ross. You don't suppose that gravity is only a displaced magnetic field from neutrino spin,ie., circulating current, do you? :-) > >That neutrinos have imaginary charge is not accepted. And personally, I >hate using the word "imaginary" for this sort of discussion because I don't >think that these things, if they really exist, are either imaginary or >virtual. Perhaps "out of phase" particles to evoke the notion that they are >not going to interact with matter at resonant phase angles at ninety degrees >to real matter. Or maybe ortho matter for orthogonal phase angle. or even >"Normal" matter :-) I hadn't read down this far when I made the above comments. Phase it is. This could resolve that the neutrino is actually a coupled pair with zero net spin internally but shows an outward spin of 1/2 in a nucleus. > >At least one gets the sense that the stuff is out there, but doesn't want to >interact, and one gets the sense that the reason it doesn't want to interact >is because the phase angle of the resonance is normal to that of most matter >in the universe, at least all the stuff we know about in our material >objects at hand. The consensus is; the stuff is out there. However, the Laws of Nature are not determined by popular vote. :-) Regards, Frederick > >Ross > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 30 20:06:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA27776; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:03:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:03:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:58:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Jorg Ostrowski To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: A & E SPECIAL? (was ****ANNOUNCEMENT****) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2badS2.0.tn6.8E7kp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8822 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Further to the attachment of below, was this broadcast? Was it interesting and well done? Would anyone be willing to lend me a copy so that I could review it also, especially if you are in Canada? I would be grateful for any comments and response. _________________________________________________________ Jorg Ostrowski, M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office _________________________________________________________ On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, Evan Soule wrote: > > * * * * * * * ANNOUNCEMENT * * * * * * * > > On Sunday Evening, June 29, 1997, the A & E NETWORK will > present a 2-hour SPECIAL entitled "Conspiracies." > > I have been told that the SPECIAL will consist of eight > different Segments. > > I have also been informed that JOSEPH NEWMAN will be > featured as the 7th Segment. > > The broadcast time for the SPECIAL is indicated as > 7pm for the Central Time Zone. > > Please consult your local TV listings for the actual > broadcast time in your area. > > * * * * * * * ANNOUNCEMENT * * * * * * * > > > Sincerely, > > Evan Soule' > Director of Information > NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS > josephnewman earthlink.net > (504) 524-3063 > P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 > Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 > http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html > > > "I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a > physical existence in that intermediate space." --- MICHAEL FARADAY > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 30 20:23:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA16064; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:21:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:21:18 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 11:21:06 +0800 (SGT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970701112135.355f7bea po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8 po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: mpower consultants Subject: Re: Earth-Focused Neutrinos? Resent-Message-ID: <"LoPit2.0.ww3.jU7kp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8823 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Frederick J. Sparber posted the following (edited for brevity) at 22:53 1997.06.30 +0000: >Ron: > >As an after-thought, if neutrinos follow the laws of optics as do >photons, there could be a focal point for the neutrinos >that pass through the Earth, somewhere out in space. On the moon maybe? > only during a lunar eclipse, assuming the focal length was not measured in light-years MMMMMMM news:alt.shenanigans MMMMMMM * http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 * (-latest update: 1997.06.25.12:30-) ***************************************************** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 30 20:55:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA05618; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:48:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:48:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Frederick J. Sparber" Subject: Re: Earth-Focused Neutrinos? Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 03:46:47 +0000 Message-ID: <19970701034645.AAA1201 LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"M1tD_.0.VN1.Cu7kp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8824 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 03:21 AM 7/1/97 +0000, mpowers wrote: >Frederick J. Sparber posted the following (edited for brevity) at 22:53 >1997.06.30 +0000: >>Ron: >> >>As an after-thought, if neutrinos follow the laws of optics as do >>photons, there could be a focal point for the neutrinos >>that pass through the Earth, somewhere out in space. On the moon maybe? >> > >only during a lunar eclipse, > assuming the focal length was not measured in light-years LOL! The focal length for the Earth considering the Sun as a point source of neutrinos is going to be in light-years? Super-Kam is seeing diurnal and seasonal variation in there Solar neutrino measurements, indicating the possibility of the Earth acting as what a glass marble does for visible light. So, what is the focal length for a "spherical lens" with a radius of 6.38E6 meters? :-) Regards, Frederick > >MMMMMMM news:alt.shenanigans MMMMMMM >* http://home.pacific.net.sg/~mpowers8 >* (-latest update: 1997.06.25.12:30-) >***************************************************** > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 30 21:36:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id VAA15115; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:33:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199707010433.VAA16873 Au.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: tessien oro.net (Ross Tessien) Subject: Re: Snell's Law and Solar Neutrinos Resent-Message-ID: <"9c1Oe3.0.4i3.2Z8kp" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8825 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >At 05:12 PM 6/30/97 +0000, Ross Tessien wrote: >> >You don't suppose that gravity is only a displaced magnetic field >from neutrino spin,ie., circulating current, do you? :-) No. IMO, gravitation is a frequency interference phenomena. Matter resonances here, cannot frequency lock with wave energy arriving from distant parts of the universe. As a result, all they can do is interfere with (ie thrust), or if you prefer the term, "filter", a percentage of that incident frequency shifted wave energy (or QVF if you prefer). The result is that you are thrust downward toward the earth by that filtering, and you are thrust away from the earth by filtering some of the energy that transited the entire earth (the earth is virtually transparent to Planck scale, ie E45 Hz, wave energy as is your body. But a tiny amount of filtering does take place). The wave energy departing the earth in frequency match with local oscillations of matter, does not thrust you away from the earth as effeciently because your resonances can frequency synchronize with that wave energy. Thus, the thrust away from the earth is less than the thrust toward the earth, but the total energy is the same in both directions. Gravitation around objects like the earth or stars, results from this frequency filtering, IMO. A black hole, however, is a different phenomena. It manifests because the aether of the universe has two states, call them vapor and condensate for familiarity, but we are talking about the stuff of the universe ocean of aether, and not "matter" as in stuff we normally consider "substantive". A black hole results when the convergent flow of matter standing waves, and thus of aether, exceeds an energy density of about E111 eV/m^3. When this occurs, you reverse the phase transition the universe underwent during the big bang and induce a localized condensation. That in turn leads to a region of the universe where there is a net flow of the universe itself, or of aether, into that hole. Inside of the event horizon, a core of aether condensate at extreme pressure must manifest. But if you interupt that inflow in any of a number of ways, then the highly pressurized condensate is going to breach confinement and shoot out into our universe again, in a process similar in concept to the big bang during the inflationary period, but on a much smaller scale. We see this all over the place and label the objects as AGN's for Active Galactic Nuclei, or Quasars, and according to Arp, apparently many galaxies have non velocity related red shifts. It appears to me that what we are seeing is that the black holes in major galaxies eject blobs of the aether condensate, which then boils, but it is inertially confined in a manner somewhat like a laser ICF pellet after being hit by the beams. That violent expansive boiling I think leads to an outward flow of aether and to what we could think of like a hydraulic jump. (This is what happens as water flows down a dam spillway in a super critical flow and then reaches the slow moving water at the end of the spillway in the river leaving the dam, and it jumps vertically to gain in PE to offset the excess KE of the super critical flow). In any case, the interior boiling aether condensate must flow out past a huge number of stars stolen from the galaxy that ejected the blob, and then jump in pressure. this jump leads to a red shifting of any photonic wave energy crossing this shock, and thus to the red shifting of those photons. this has led to all manner of confusion where interacting galaxies are involved because some of the red shifts are huge while others are close together. These are interpreted as being chance superpositions, but when you analyze the associations and the probabilities of these associations, it appears that time and again, quasars and high Z galaxies are associated in the sky to the point that the probabilities are a million to one or worse of this being a chance superposition. >I hadn't read down this far when I made the above comments. Phase it is. >This could resolve that the neutrino is actually a coupled pair with zero >net spin internally but shows an outward spin of 1/2 in a nucleus. Personally, I think that "spin" is a misnomer. I think that "resonance" is a better term because I think that you have certain standing waves oscillating radially on every other cycle of spacetime standing waves. Thus, they are driven oscillations just like "Oscillons". Look those guys up on a web search if you haven't already studied them. The nucleation of the resonances is maintained by the convergence of the energy density, which leads to tiny Planck scale droplets of aether condensate, ie E-35 meters. These are the innermost hard cores of what we call, "matter". They are ancient remnants of the big bang itself, or put another way, they are the last not yet boiled away droplets of aether condensate which had become trapped in the acoustic nodes during the boiling process we call inflation. Today, we call those acoustic nodes, "spacetime". And we call the continuation of the boiling process, "exothermy". And all exothermic processes are aether emissive. That is why you can look at the sun and see vivid evidence of some form of fluid flowing out of the sun and breaking out of the surface. We call these events by names like solar flares, coronal mass ejections and solar coronal heating. And we call the corridors through which the aether flows, sun spots. And we notice that as the reactivity in the core increases and decreases on an 11 year cycle, that the pitch of the sound energy in the sun changes globally on that period due to the periodic change in flow rate of the aether. Have fun with all of this, Later, Ross Tessien From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 30 22:37:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA09841; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:29:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:29:26 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 00:28:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707010528.AAA07414 natasha.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: lucky results Resent-Message-ID: <"zJn9R.0.fP2.rM9kp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8826 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The 2nd plot in our RUN#2 report on the EarthTech web page (under Waterflow calorimetry) shows the ratio of Pout/Pin vs Time for our new water-flow calorimeter. An examination of this plot reveals that our typically reported Pout/Pin ratios of 0.997-1.002 were, in fact, just lucky results (i.e. observations made at times when the result was unusually good). Actually, as you can see from the plot, the calorimeter's Pout/Pin ratio varied generally between 0.99 and 1.03 and was only very close to 1.00 during the day when we were here to observe it! Just thought I'd set the record straight on this because, frankly, none of us believed the apparent fractional percent accuracy anyway. The 0.999 Eout/Ein ratio for the entire run is surely also a rather lucky result. The system is still quite satisfactory for the purpose at hand although the zero drift problem is rather annoying. RUN #3, presently underway, is suffering from the zero problem a bit. Pout is regularly about 0.15 watts less than Pin because of it. I am open to suggestions for a temp sensing element that has long-term repeatability/stability of better than 0.01C. As far as I can see, none of the standard types (thermocouple, RTD, thermistor, etc.) are ever advertised to have such a performance. Perhaps this is just one of those areas where you have to develop your own stuff. I know HP had/has some pretty fantastic temp instruments for a pretty big price but I doubt if they would be practical for this purpose. The beauty of thermistors is that, with nothing more than a matching fixed resistor and a stable voltage supply, you can connect them directly to yr ADC board and, voila, yr computer knows the temperature. RTD's and thermocouples both require some extra electronics ($$) in order to get their results. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jun 30 23:54:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA24275; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:49:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:49:34 -0700 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 09:17:35 GMT From: "Peter Glueck" Message-ID: <33b8af15.itim itim.org.soroscj.ro> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Cc: "Peter Glueck" Subject: Re: lucky results Resent-Message-ID: <"xJd23.0.Dx5.-XAkp" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/8827 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:29:26 -0700, vortex-l eskimo.com wrote: > The 2nd plot in our RUN#2 report on the EarthTech web page (under Waterflow > calorimetry) shows the ratio of Pout/Pin vs Time for our new water-flow > calorimeter. > > An examination of this plot reveals that our typically reported Pout/Pin > ratios of 0.997-1.002 were, in fact, just lucky results (i.e. observations > made at times when the result was unusually good). Dear Scott and colleagues, As long as measurement and not effect enhancement will be the main problem of the CF workers, the problem will remain in the Twilight Zone and will have no future. It's much better to try to stimulate the effect by ultrasonic, magnetic, electric or whatever effects, by using cathodes with developed surfaces and so on. The aim is to get effects beyond measurement and error. What is the maximum performance (% excess, Watts excess) claimed by Ragland in "direct" discussions ? Carefully measured goodwill will be pavement material for the well known road which leads to..we know where. Anyway, I wish you real success with your experimentation! Peter -- dr. Peter Gluck Institute of Isotopic and Molecular Technology Fax:064-420042 Cluj-Napoca, str. Donath 65-103, P.O.Box 700 Tel:064-184037/144 Cluj 5, 3400 Romania Home: 064-174976 E-mail: peter itim.org.soroscj.ro , peterg@oc1.itim-cj.ro