From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  1 00:33:56 1999
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From: "Frederick J Sparber" <fjsparb sprintmail.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: PLASMA CUTTERS, plasma, (http://www.keyway.net/~salesco/migs/plasma/index.html)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 01:31:53 -0700
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The Air stream also contains 1% Argon. Add some steam (H2O or D2O generated
from cooling the workpiece)and you might have yourself a
CF/OU/Quasineutron/Hydrino Generator.   :-) FJS

http://www.keyway.net/~salesco/migs/plasma/index.html

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  1 00:42:57 1999
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From: "Frederick J Sparber" <fjsparb sprintmail.com>
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Subject: Re: HAARP Fact Sheet (http://w3.nrl.navy.mil/projects/haarp/haarpFactSheet.html)
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-----Original Message-----
From: Horace Heffner <hheffner mtaonline.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: HAARP Fact Sheet
(http://w3.nrl.navy.mil/projects/haarp/haarpFactSheet.html)

You might set a carton of eggs on you window sill, Horace. If they boil in 3
minutes or so, you is toast.  :-(

Regards,  Frederick


>At 4:59 PM 2/28/99, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
>>Is Horace under this thing?  :-)
>>
>>http://w3.nrl.navy.mil/projects/haarp/haarpFactSheet.html
>
>It is a couple hours or so drive from here.  If they beam it SW at a 45
>deg. angle from vertical and atmospheric conditions are just right I could
>be toast.  8^(
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  1 05:31:06 1999
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From: "Rob King" <kingrsv hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: The Bessler/Orffyreus free energy machine
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 05:28:51 PST
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John,

>Just letting you know that I have put my money where my mouth is. As
Think you would be better to have kept your money in the bank.

Purely mechanical over-unity device, with no magnets, coils etc, hmmmm, 
I don't think so.
If you can reproduce it I'll eat my multimeter...and I'll buy your book.


Rob King


>Just letting you know that I have put my money where my mouth is. As
>requested some time back, by several vociferous vorts, I've put an
>abbreviated version of the theory I've developed about Johann Bessler's
>wheel, up on my web site at http://www.free-energy.co.uk. Why it did 
not
>violate any physical laws.  I have also discovered clues to the 
mechanism he
>used and I have filed a patent on it.  As soon as I know how to 
replicate
>the wheel I'll post that information too.  I would welcome any feedback 
:-)
>
>John Collins
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  1 07:07:12 1999
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: The Bessler/Orffyreus free energy machine
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At 07:42 3/1/99 +0000, John Collins wrote:
>I've put an abbreviated version of the theory I've developed about Johann
>Bessler's wheel....
>I would welcome any feedback :-)

quoting from the theory:

>However the continued forwards rotation of the rim of the wheel will cause
the >weight to slowly rise vertically towards the centre of the wheel,
because the >anchor point of the weight is being turned upwards. The weight
is stationary, >relative to the rotation of the wheel in order to allow the
wheel itself, to >catch up with the weight. This catching up is a necessary
action following the >previous action which allowed the weight to take a
short cut across the wheel >prior to its descent, thus getting ahead of the
wheel. As this takes place >directly under the centre of gravity it will
not effect rotation.

This passage implies that the wheel can raise the weight while it's hanging
directly below the axle...for free!  That is incorrect.  If the wheel is
raising the weight, it's rotational kinetic energy will ALWAYS be
diminished by mgh when the weight m is raised a distance h in grav field of
g.  It does not matter where the weight is w.r.t. the wheel.

Later you say: 

>The two half-loops, downwards and upwards, are separate factors, and do
not >form a single closed-loop.

You must be confused about what constitutes a "closed loop".  Assume that a
photographer was instructed to photograph the wheel every time a mark on
its perimeter was exactly at the top (12 o'clock).  Would the weight appear
at the same position on the wheel in each of his photographs?  If so then
the weight moves in a closed loop REGARDLESS the complex acrobatics you
have arranged for it between the photographs.

The net work done by a weight during a complete revolution of the wheel is
inevitably destined to be zero, regardless of the path taken by the
weight...provided the weight moves in a closed path, however complex, which
repeats with each revolution of the wheel.  




Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  1 08:58:26 1999
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From: Tstolper aol.com
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Mitchell,

A question about bibliographical minutiae re your 1998 paper, "Improved
Electrolytic Reactor Performance Using pi-Notch System Operation and Gold
Anodes, Transactions of the American Nuclear Association, Nashville, Tenn 1998
Meeting, (ISSN:0003-018X publisher LaGrange, Ill) 78, 84-85."

Should that be "Transactions of the American Nuclear Society"?  (American
Nuclear Society is the other organizational name you referred to in your
message dated Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:42:54 -0500)  I've never heard of an
American Nuclear Association.

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  1 09:20:44 1999
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From: John Collins <jcollins free-energy.co.uk>
Subject: Re: The Bessler/Orffyreus free energy machine
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 17:19:17 +0000
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Hi Rob,

I did not make it clear enough.  Gravity cannot be a source of energy for
this kind of mechanism as long as the formula for calculating the work done
by a conservative force is only the mass times vertical distance moved.  If
that formula can be affected by an alteration in the closed-loop that the
orbiting mass follows, then the closed loop can become two half-loops with
different highest points, one of which need not be above the c.o.g.
I didn't really put my money anywhere, I just stuck my head up above the
parapets!

John

>>Just letting you know that I have put my money where my mouth is. As
>Think you would be better to have kept your money in the bank.
>
>Purely mechanical over-unity device, with no magnets, coils etc, hmmmm, 
>I don't think so.
>If you can reproduce it I'll eat my multimeter...and I'll buy your book.
>
>
>Rob King
>
>
>>Just letting you know that I have put my money where my mouth is. As
>>requested some time back, by several vociferous vorts, I've put an
>>abbreviated version of the theory I've developed about Johann Bessler's
>>wheel, up on my web site at http://www.free-energy.co.uk. Why it did 
>not
>>violate any physical laws.  I have also discovered clues to the 
>mechanism he
>>used and I have filed a patent on it.  As soon as I know how to 
>replicate
>>the wheel I'll post that information too.  I would welcome any feedback 
>:-)
>>
>>John Collins
>>
>>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>


Author of 'Perpetual Motion; An Ancient Mystery Solved?' - for more
information and details on ordering, visit my web site at
http://www.free-energy.co.uk

		  

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  1 09:34:19 1999
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: John Collins <jcollins free-energy.co.uk>
Subject: Re: The Bessler/Orffyreus free energy machine
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 17:30:24 +0000
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At 09:02 01/03/99 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>However the continued forwards rotation of the rim of the wheel will cause
>the >weight to slowly rise vertically towards the centre of the wheel,
>because the >anchor point of the weight is being turned upwards. The weight
>is stationary, >relative to the rotation of the wheel in order to allow the
>wheel itself, to >catch up with the weight. This catching up is a necessary
>action following the >previous action which allowed the weight to take a
>short cut across the wheel >prior to its descent, thus getting ahead of the
>wheel. As this takes place >directly under the centre of gravity it will
>not effect rotation.
>
>This passage implies that the wheel can raise the weight while it's hanging
>directly below the axle...for free!  That is incorrect.  If the wheel is
>raising the weight, it's rotational kinetic energy will ALWAYS be
>diminished by mgh when the weight m is raised a distance h in grav field of
>g.  It does not matter where the weight is w.r.t. the wheel.

**It does not raise the weight because the weight is being turned as the
wheel rotates, it merely holds its position in relation to height but as it
turns its position relative to the c.o.g moves closer.
>
>Later you say: 
>
>>The two half-loops, downwards and upwards, are separate factors, and do
>not >form a single closed-loop.
>
>You must be confused about what constitutes a "closed loop".  Assume that a
>photographer was instructed to photograph the wheel every time a mark on
>its perimeter was exactly at the top (12 o'clock).  Would the weight appear
>at the same position on the wheel in each of his photographs?  If so then
>the weight moves in a closed loop REGARDLESS the complex acrobatics you
>have arranged for it between the photographs.

**No I'm not confused about what constitutes a closed loop.  Your example
proves nothing, obviously the weight takes up the same position on the
wheel's circumference at each rotation, but I clearly stated that the weight
then moves ahead of the wheel from that point and impacts on the side of the
wheel at approximately the 9 o'clock position.  At the 6 o'clock position,
while it is waiting for the wheel to catch up, it turns in relation to its
position on the wheel and as the wheel is continuing to rotate, its position
is closer to c.o.g.
>
>The net work done by a weight during a complete revolution of the wheel is
>inevitably destined to be zero, regardless of the path taken by the
>weight...provided the weight moves in a closed path, however complex, which
>repeats with each revolution of the wheel.

**True - but this weight does not move in a closed path.

John  


Author of 'Perpetual Motion; An Ancient Mystery Solved?' - for more
information and details on ordering, visit my web site at
http://www.free-energy.co.uk

		  

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  1 09:59:37 1999
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From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re:  JET Energy Technology
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  ooops.  Yes. Mea culpa. Thanks, Tom.
  BTW it was a very good meeting, with three US
Senators, attending because of their interest in
energy and nuclear systems.

   Mitchell  

 ================================
  At 11:32 AM 3/1/99 EST, Tstolper aol.com wrote:
>Mitchell,
>
>A question about bibliographical minutiae re your 1998 paper, "Improved
>Electrolytic Reactor Performance Using pi-Notch System Operation and Gold
>Anodes, Transactions of the American Nuclear Association, Nashville, Tenn
1998
>Meeting, (ISSN:0003-018X publisher LaGrange, Ill) 78, 84-85."
>
>Should that be "Transactions of the American Nuclear Society"?  (American
>Nuclear Society is the other organizational name you referred to in your
>message dated Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:42:54 -0500)  I've never heard of an
>American Nuclear Association.
>
>Tom Stolper


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  1 10:14:38 1999
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: The Bessler/Orffyreus free energy machine
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At 17:30 3/1/99 +0000, John Collins wrote:

>...obviously the weight takes up the same position on the
>wheel's circumference at each rotation....

John, you have just succinctly stated the definition of a closed loop.  It
does NOT matter what you let/make the weight do during the other part of
the rotation.  It's the fact that it returns to the same position at each
rotation that makes it a closed loop....nothing else matters.

If you do not accept my statement of this fact, then I suggest you learn it
for yourself as follows:  Build a wheel based upon your theory using large
quantities of your own money.  The more money you spend the more effective
the lesson will be.  Test the wheel after it is built.



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  1 10:55:33 1999
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From: "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: The Bessler/Orffyreus free energy machine
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John,

>I didn't really put my money anywhere, I just stuck my head up above the
>parapets!


Duck!!!!

John, I haven't read your piece yet, just got back from out of town and am
catching up. Will look carefully at it.

Thanks, Mike

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  1 11:30:21 1999
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From: John Collins <jcollins free-energy.co.uk>
Subject: Re: The Bessler/Orffyreus free energy machine
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:15:27 +0000
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At 12:13 01/03/99 -0600, you wrote:
>At 17:30 3/1/99 +0000, John Collins wrote:
>
>>...obviously the weight takes up the same position on the
>>wheel's circumference at each rotation....
>
>John, you have just succinctly stated the definition of a closed loop.  It
>does NOT matter what you let/make the weight do during the other part of
>the rotation.  It's the fact that it returns to the same position at each
>rotation that makes it a closed loop....nothing else matters.
>
>If you do not accept my statement of this fact, then I suggest you learn it
>for yourself as follows:  Build a wheel based upon your theory using large
>quantities of your own money.  The more money you spend the more effective
>the lesson will be.  Test the wheel after it is built.

**Scott, I respect your knowledge in the area of mechanics however you are
wrong in this case.  If the closed loop is divided into two open half-loops,
the position as per your example (12 o'clock position) will still be the
same at each revolution, and this will still apply in the two half-loop
situation.  You say It does NOT matter what you let/make the weight do
during the other part of
the rotation.  It's the fact that it returns to the same position at each
rotation that makes it a closed loop....nothing else matters.  I say that
this is true if the weight has to return to the same point on the
circumference i.e. 12 o'clock position, but I stated clearly on my web site
that the weight only has to rise to a position above the c.o.g and then move
horizontally ahead of the wheel to the 9 o'clock position, thus providing
two high points, one at 12 o'clock above the c.o.g.(but not at the rim!) and
the other at 9 o'clock (at the rim), off to one side of the c.o.g.  This
means that you have two vertical distances to deal with, one running through
the wheel's c.o.g and the other with a vertical distance running half way
between the "normal"  vertical distance (above the wheel's c.o.g) and  a
vertical distance running through the new highest point.   Since you have
two separate vertical distances you have to take account of their relative
positions to the c.o.g.  One vertical distance is off to one side and will
tend to over-balance the wheel.  Rotation of the wheel is aided by the fact
that the weight impacts on the side towards which the wheel turns.

Thanks for the suggestion concerning my money but no thanks.  I am trying to
build a working model and also trying to get others interested in the same
end - I hope that publishing my theory might help.

John


Author of 'Perpetual Motion; An Ancient Mystery Solved?' - for more
information and details on ordering, visit my web site at
http://www.free-energy.co.uk

		  

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  1 11:31:22 1999
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Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:26:56 -1000
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: The Bessler/Orffyreus free energy machine
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Scott -

   >  Build a wheel based upon your theory using large
   >  quantities of your own money.  The more money
   >  you spend the more effective the lesson will be.
   >  Test the wheel after it is built.

Hey man, you stole my idea! *I* was going to re-invent that. Except that
rather than test it, I was just going to leave it forever unfinished so I
wouldn't have to suffer the disappointment in case it didn't work.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  1 12:31:43 1999
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Subject: Re: The Bessler/Orffyreus free energy machine
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At 19:15 3/1/99 +0000, John Collins wrote:

>If the closed loop is divided into two open half-loops...the weight only
has to rise to a position above the c.o.g....then move horizontally ahead
of the wheel....thus providing two high points.  This means that you have
two vertical distances to deal with, one running through the wheel's c.o.g
and the other with a vertical distance running half way between the
"normal"  vertical distance (above the wheel's c.o.g) and  a vertical
distance running through the new highest point...One vertical distance is
off to one side and will
tend to over-balance the wheel.  Rotation of the wheel is aided by the fact
that the weight impacts on the side towards which the wheel turns.

Excellent example of the Cloak of Complexity, John....but it's still a
closed loop.  

I don't care if the weight swings over to Washington D.C and hits Bill
Clinton in the head each time the wheel revolves...as long as the weight
makes ANY KIND of cyclical path which returns it to the exact same
position...no net work can be done by the weight.

Any device can be complicated to the point that it cannot be easily
analyzed.  When so encumbered there is a very human tendency to believe the
device is more likely to produce free energy.



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  1 14:27:43 1999
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Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 17:26:41 -0500
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
From: "Dennis C. Lee" <atech ix.netcom.com>
Subject: NOVA "Warnings From The Ice" this week
Resent-Message-ID: <"vbKOw1.0.h12.0Dnss" mx1>
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Hi;

This week "Warnings From The Ice" will air on the show NOVA (pbs). A report
on the effects of global warming on the South Pole Ice Cap is the topic.
Please watch this show. I would like to start the Piano Factory Art
Foundation to let people be more aware of the global warming issue and that
we should try to reverse its' effects.

Regards;
Dennis





Tall Ships
http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html


Concentric Tori
http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG


Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun!
http://www.artbellchatclub.com


________________________________________

When I am working on a problem,
I never think about beauty.
I only think of how to solve the problem.
But when I have finished,
if the solution is not beautiful,
I know it is wrong.

-R. Buckminster Fuller-



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  1 15:08:28 1999
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From: Chuck Davis <roshicorp ROSHI.com>
To: "Dennis C. Lee" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 15:01:11 -0800
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On 01-Mar-99, Dennis C. Lee, wrote:
>Hi;

>This week "Warnings From The Ice" will air on the show NOVA (pbs). A report
>on the effects of global warming on the South Pole Ice Cap is the topic.
>Please watch this show. I would like to start the Piano Factory Art
>Foundation to let people be more aware of the global warming issue and that
>we should try to reverse its' effects.

>Regards;
>Dennis

IMHO, not until humans can control what volcanoes spew into the atmosphere,
will "global warming" be controlled, if at all. I believe "global warming's"
connection to humans, especially USA humans, is a canard,
-- 
    .-.                                                               .-.
   /   \           .-.                                 .-.           /   \
  /     \         /   \       .-.     _     .-.       /   \         /     \
-/--Chuck Davis -------\-----/---\---/-\---/---\-----/-----\-------/-------\--
    RoshiCorp ROSHI.com \   /     \_/   `-'     \   /       \     /
           \   /         `-'                     `-'         \   /
            `-'                                               `-'
http://www.post-trauma.com/roshi.html

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  1 16:09:13 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: NOVA "Warnings From The Ice" this week
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At 3:01 PM 3/1/99, Chuck Davis wrote:
>On 01-Mar-99, Dennis C. Lee, wrote:
>>Hi;
>
>>This week "Warnings From The Ice" will air on the show NOVA (pbs). A report
>>on the effects of global warming on the South Pole Ice Cap is the topic.
>>Please watch this show. I would like to start the Piano Factory Art
>>Foundation to let people be more aware of the global warming issue and that
>>we should try to reverse its' effects.
>
>>Regards;
>>Dennis
>
>IMHO, not until humans can control what volcanoes spew into the atmosphere,
>will "global warming" be controlled, if at all. I believe "global warming's"
>connection to humans, especially USA humans, is a canard,


VortexB was created for just this kind of discussion.  Please take it there.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  1 23:17:26 1999
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From: John Collins <jcollins free-energy.co.uk>
Subject: Re: The Bessler/Orffyreus free energy machine
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:18:18 +0000
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At 14:30 01/03/99 -0600, you wrote:
>At 19:15 3/1/99 +0000, John Collins wrote:
>
>>If the closed loop is divided into two open half-loops...the weight only
>has to rise to a position above the c.o.g....then move horizontally ahead
>of the wheel....thus providing two high points.  This means that you have
>two vertical distances to deal with, one running through the wheel's c.o.g
>and the other with a vertical distance running half way between the
>"normal"  vertical distance (above the wheel's c.o.g) and  a vertical
>distance running through the new highest point...One vertical distance is
>off to one side and will tend to over-balance the wheel.  Rotation of the
wheel is aided by the fact that the weight impacts on the side towards which
the wheel turns.
>
>Excellent example of the Cloak of Complexity, John....but it's still a
>closed loop.  

**OK Scott.  Lets try it this way.  Take a simple balance beam, and add two
equal weights to it, one at the end of the beam and the other about half way
between the other end and the axle.  The beam can rotate freely around the
axle. What happens?  It finishes up vertical, with the outer weight
downwards. Now add a second beam at right angles.  Now the resting point is
with the two outer ends pointing downwards at 45% - agreed?  Suppose you
could devise a mechanism which will pull one of the outer weights backwards
horizontally at this position.  When the weight moves backwards a small
distance towards the other 45% outer weight, the wheel rotates a little.
This allows the mechanism to pull the weight a little more backwards
horizontally and the wheel rotates a bit more.  When the weight following,
reaches the vertical point, its opposite number which has been waiting to
fall horizontally outwards from a point close to the axle but in line with a
12 o'clock position, to its impact position at 9 o'clock, falls and the
whole process begins again.  I have such a mechanism.

>I don't care if the weight swings over to Washington D.C and hits Bill
>Clinton in the head each time the wheel revolves...as long as the weight
>makes ANY KIND of cyclical path which returns it to the exact same
>position...no net work can be done by the weight.

**OK so you can't see it, - your "light" sarcasm does you no credit.
>
>Any device can be complicated to the point that it cannot be easily
>analyzed.  When so encumbered there is a very human tendency to believe the
>device is more likely to produce free energy.

**Its not complicated but really very simple, and although the energy is
free, it is from a legitimate source - gravity.

John


Author of 'Perpetual Motion; An Ancient Mystery Solved?' - for more
information and details on ordering, visit my web site at
http://www.free-energy.co.uk

		  

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  2 01:31:05 1999
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From: "Frederick J Sparber" <fjsparb sprintmail.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Heat Pipe, High Flux Heat Spreader
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To: Vortex

FWIW. The Heat Pipe Principle can be applied to
distributing heat from a high flux "hot spot" where Kw/cm^2 such as the
concentrated heat input from a Plasma Cutter (or laser pulse)is spead over a
large area thus reducing it.

For instance a "pill-box" with a layer of Lithium, Mercury, or Potassium,on
the bottom, if heated from the bottom will evaporate the metal which will
condense on the top giving up it's heat of vaporization and the condensate
will drip back to the bottom allowing a uniform temperature on the top of
the "box".

Similarly, an annular liquid-metal heat pipe surrounding a tube with water
flowing through it, will "spread" the externally applied kw/cm^2 "hot-spot"
heat over large areas of the water conduit so that the heat flux into the
water is controlled for optimum heat transfer.

Regards,   Frederick








From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  2 06:33:02 1999
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From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: The Bessler/Orffyreus free energy machine
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At 07:18 3/2/99 +0000, John Collins wrote:

>**OK Scott.  Lets try it this way.  Take a simple balance beam, and add two
>equal weights to it, one at the end of the beam and the other about half way
>between the other end and the axle.  The beam can rotate freely around the
>axle. What happens?  It finishes up vertical, with the outer weight
>downwards. Now add a second beam at right angles.  Now the resting point is
>with the two outer ends pointing downwards at 45% - agreed?

Yes.  Let us now calculate the vertical coordinate of the center of gravity
of the two weights assuming the beams are weightless.   Each weight is at
the same distance below the axle so that is where the COG is located:
-0.707*R. (R is the radius of the wheel).

>Suppose you
>could devise a mechanism which will pull one of the outer weights backwards
>horizontally at this position.  When the weight moves backwards a small
>distance towards the other 45% outer weight, the wheel rotates a little.

Agreed.

>This allows the mechanism to pull the weight a little more backwards
>horizontally and the wheel rotates a bit more.  When the weight following,
>reaches the vertical point, its opposite number which has been waiting to
>fall horizontally outwards from a point close to the axle but in line with a
>12 o'clock position, to its impact position at 9 o'clock, falls and the
>whole process begins again.

When the 2nd weight reaches the 6:00 position (vertical down), the weight
that has moved in horizontally towards the axle cannot possibly be back up
at the wheel's axle without an external input of energy equal to
2M*g*0.207R.  This is because, if it were up there, the new COG would be at
-0.5*R (i.e. one weight at the center, one at the bottom).  Thus the COG
would have moved UP a distance of 0.207*R and the work required to make
that movement is mgh or 2M*g*0.207R.  

Without an external energy input, the highest point that the first weight
can reach when the 2nd weight reaches 6:00 is -0.414*R.  At that location,
with the 2nd weight at -1*R, the COG of the two weights is equal to its
starting value of -0.707*R.

In your proposed cycle, the COG of the two weights rises spontaneously...or
it rises due to the action of gravity!  That is wrong. In fact it is the
force of gravity that prevents the COG of the two weights from rising
spontaneously.

>I have such a mechanism.

Since it does not run round and round continuously by itself, I trust you
will at least consider my explanation above.



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  2 08:12:36 1999
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From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Blacklight Power's phone number?
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Directory assistance has no listing for:

BlackLight Power, Inc
493 Edinburg Road - East Windsor, NJ 08512

Does anybody have their phone number?  Mills hasn't responded to my last
email, I need to call him.



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  2 09:47:52 1999
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: John Collins <jcollins free-energy.co.uk>
Subject: Re: The Bessler/Orffyreus free energy machine
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 17:42:21 +0000
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At 08:30 02/03/99 -0600, you wrote:
>At 07:18 3/2/99 +0000, John Collins wrote:
>
>>**OK Scott.  Lets try it this way.  Take a simple balance beam, and add two
>>equal weights to it, one at the end of the beam and the other about half way
>>between the other end and the axle.  The beam can rotate freely around the
>>axle. What happens?  It finishes up vertical, with the outer weight
>>downwards. Now add a second beam at right angles.  Now the resting point is
>>with the two outer ends pointing downwards at 45% - agreed?
>
>Yes.  Let us now calculate the vertical coordinate of the center of gravity
>of the two weights assuming the beams are weightless.   Each weight is at
>the same distance below the axle so that is where the COG is located:
>-0.707*R. (R is the radius of the wheel).

**You are referring to the c.o.g of the weights?  I was referring to the
c.o.g. of the wheel or supporting mechanism.  But I'm not arguing with your
above statement.
>
>>Suppose you
>>could devise a mechanism which will pull one of the outer weights backwards
>>horizontally at this position.  When the weight moves backwards a small
>>distance towards the other 45% outer weight, the wheel rotates a little.
>
>Agreed.
>
>>This allows the mechanism to pull the weight a little more backwards
>>horizontally and the wheel rotates a bit more.  When the weight following,
>>reaches the vertical point, its opposite number which has been waiting to
>>fall horizontally outwards from a point close to the axle but in line with a
>>12 o'clock position, to its impact position at 9 o'clock, falls and the
>>whole process begins again.
>
>When the 2nd weight reaches the 6:00 position (vertical down), the weight
>that has moved in horizontally towards the axle cannot possibly be back up
>at the wheel's axle without an external input of energy equal to
>2M*g*0.207R.  This is because, if it were up there, the new COG would be at
>-0.5*R (i.e. one weight at the center, one at the bottom).  Thus the COG
>would have moved UP a distance of 0.207*R and the work required to make
>that movement is mgh or 2M*g*0.207R. 

**Agreed but read my theory again.  I never said the weight had to climb up
to the wheel's axle, clearly if you draw a line horizontally backwards from
the advanced 45% angle point near the rim towards the line running
vertically through the c.o.g (of the wheel) it will finish up somewhere
below the axle but higher than it was, and that is all that is required.
The path of the inner orbit should run about half way between the rim and
the center of the wheel, and that is precisely where the weight would rise
to when coasting at its lower position.  In fact as long as there is some
difference between the inner and outer half-orbits then you will get a
differential which will cause over-balancing.  Add to this impact, and you
have Bessler's wheel.

>In your proposed cycle, the COG of the two weights rises spontaneously...or
>it rises due to the action of gravity!  That is wrong. In fact it is the
>force of gravity that prevents the COG of the two weights from rising
>spontaneously.

**I should have been more precise and I apologise, when I referred to the
c.o.g I meant the c.o.g of the wheel which supports the weights.  I could
perhaps have stuck to using "the wheel's axle".

>Since it does not run round and round continuously by itself, I trust you
>will at least consider my explanation above.

**It will run round and round eventually if we can get the positioning of
the weight and mechanism right.

John


Author of 'Perpetual Motion; An Ancient Mystery Solved?' - for more
information and details on ordering, visit my web site at
http://www.free-energy.co.uk

		  

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  2 13:25:57 1999
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From: "George Holz" <george varisys.com>
To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" <vortex-L@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Blacklight Power's phone number?
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:03:37 -0500
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Scott wrote:

>Directory assistance has no listing for:
>
>BlackLight Power, Inc
>493 Edinburg Road - East Windsor, NJ 08512
>
>Does anybody have their phone number?  Mills hasn't responded to my last
>email, I need to call him.
>
The 1999 edition book order form at 
http://www.blacklightpower.com/bkorder.html
lists this different address and includes a fax number.

BlackLight Power, Inc 
493 Edinburg Road
Cranbury, NJ 08512

Fax: (609) 490-1090
-
My Mercer County street map shows Cranbury and East Windsor as
adjacent towns with Edinburg Rd. very close to the border.

Happy BLP hunting,

George Holz                    Varitronics Systems
732-356-7773                   george varisys.com
1924 US Hwy 22 East        Bound Brook NJ 08805


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  2 14:29:13 1999
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At 17:42 3/2/99 +0000, John Collins wrote:

>**You are referring to the c.o.g of the weights? 

Yes, since the wheel is completely symmetrical about the axle, let's just
assume that it is weightless.  If we can get the weights themselves to do
work during a cycle, then we can build a suitable wheel to mount them on.

>**Agreed but read my theory again.  I never said the weight had to climb up
>to the wheel's axle,

OK, good.

>clearly if you draw a line horizontally backwards from
>the advanced 45% angle point near the rim towards the line running
>vertically through the c.o.g (of the wheel) it will finish up somewhere
>below the axle but higher than it was, and that is all that is required.

No, that is not all that is required..  As the 1st weight is moving to this
"higher than it was" position, the 2nd weight is moving DOWN to the 6:00
position....so you aren't necessarily gaining potential energy.   What is
important is the net change in elevation of the COG of the two weights.  If
the COG moves up during this portion of the cycle, then the system will
have potential energy stored to execute the next cycle...but the COG cannot
move up without an input of energy from somewhere.  It could come from
stored kinetic energy in the system...and cause the system to slow down, or
it could come from an external agent (i.e. a motor).

John, this is getting rather ridiculous.  I feel like I'm explaining why 2
+ 2 = 4.  If you still do not accept my arguments, I hereby withdraw from
your path to let you pursue, unhampered by the laws of physics, a working
model of the Bessler wheel.



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  2 14:33:03 1999
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From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 <MH2_BRIGGS ODNVMS.A1.Ohio.Gov>
Subject: RE: Blacklight Power's phone number?
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Scott,

It's at the bottom of their web page.

http://www.blacklightpower.com/

BlackLight Power, Inc
493 Edinburg Road - Cranbury, NJ 08512
Work: (609) 490-1090 - Fax: (609) 490-1089

They are building a new site in the Princeton, New Jersey area, don't know
how much of the company is moving or when, may have already done so.

Bill
webriggs concentric.net

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  2 15:42:13 1999
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At 17:17 3/2/99 -0500, Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote:

>It's at the bottom of their web page.
>Work: (609) 490-1090 - Fax: (609) 490-1089

Jeez, I must've looked right at it 5 times before. Thanks!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  2 16:22:13 1999
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Subject: Re: Power Supply Design for 25 - 50 Ampere 110 Volt  D.C. Arc?
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To: Vortex

It would be easy to design a H2/D2 Gas molten Potassium Cathode discharge
vessel patterned after the old mercury arc rectifiers.

This way the potassium cathode would be self-healing and the hydrogen
pressure and arc current/voltage can be variable.

One could do this with a piece of pipe, some potassium metal, a spark plug
from an oil furnace,and hydrogen gotten from a small propane torch. The arc
will break down the propane C3H8, to Cx + 4 H2.

The trick is the design of a regulated power
supply. High current transformer and solid state circuitry?

Then when Scott gets through with undesigning a perpetual motion fantasy,
you might get him to check you calorimetry results.   :-)

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  2 20:42:27 1999
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Subject: Re: Free Potassium from K2CO3 in a Propane Arc Cell
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Check me out on this,Robin

If slightly moistened K2CO3 or KOH is made the cathode in an Arc Cell
slightly pressurized with propane from a small torch:

1, C3H8 + arc heat ---> 3C + 4 H2

2, K2CO3 + 2C ---> 2 K (vapor)+ 3 CO

3, K2CO3 + H2 --->  2 KOH + CO

4, 2 KOH + 2 K <---> 2 K2O + H2

Ignoring the CO which can be removed by flushing the cell with propane, one
should end up with a goodly quantity of Free Potassium, Cx, and H2?

Regards,  Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  3 01:19:15 1999
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From: John Collins <jcollins free-energy.co.uk>
Subject: Re: The Bessler/Orffyreus free energy machine
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 08:58:45 +0000
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At 16:08 02/03/99 -0600, you wrote:

>John, ...  If you still do not accept my arguments, I hereby withdraw from
>your path to let you pursue, unhampered by the laws of physics, a working
>model of the Bessler wheel.
>
>Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
>Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
>512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

Thank you Scott.  I believe that you have not understood my argument just as
you believe that I have misunderstood yours.  In fact I fully understand
your points and indeed argued those same points in my theory document, as
part of my own hypothesis. I will pursue my investigation of Bessler's
wheel, and continue to try to accomodate the known facts within the Laws of
Science and perhaps in the end I will succeed.

Regards

John


Author of 'Perpetual Motion; An Ancient Mystery Solved?' - for more
information and details on ordering, visit my web site at
http://www.free-energy.co.uk

		  

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To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Free Potassium from K2CO3 in an Ethanol Vapor Arc Cell
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To: Vortex

Since Ethanol (ethyl alcohol) CH3-CH2-OH (B.P. 78.4 deg C)is easy to come
by. :-)

The K2CO3 can be leached from wood ashes.

In a "Pipe" ARC Cell with 10 to 20 Amperes at 30 to 90 volts D.C. the
ethanol will dissociate and react with the K2CO3 forming H2, COx, and Free
K:

1, CH3-CH2-OH + Arc Heat ---> 2 C + H2O + 2 H2

2, K2CO3 + 2 C + Arc Heat ---> 2 K (vapor) + 3 CO

3, K2CO3 + H2 ---> 2 KOH + CO

4, 2 KOH + 2 K <---> 2 K2O + H2

5, CO + H2O <---> CO2 + H2

With a K2CO3-Ethanol "paste cathode" at the bottom of the Arc Cell, the cell
should have abundant free K and K+ Ions, along with an atmosphere of H2, H,
and H+ ions.

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  3 04:14:29 1999
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To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Automotive Alternator for Variable D.C. Power Supply?
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 05:10:59 -0700
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To: Vortex

Several years ago the were "entrepreneurs"out selling kits for switching the
alternators on
cars and pick-up trucks to D.C. welders.

A bit of a safety hazard around wet ground,but they sold'em.

With a good alternator purchased at a junkyard, a battery, and a 1.5 to 5 hp
air-cooled or electric motor these might make a good power supply for
running the Arc Cell experiments.

Anyone know how this is done?

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  3 04:51:25 1999
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From: JNaudin509 aol.com
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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 07:49:16 EST
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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Dear All,

Today, I have updated my web site with some pictures of the Prof.Cornille's
electrostatic motor at :
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/elecmtr.htm

Best Regards,

Jean-Louis Naudin (France)
Email: JNaudin509 aol.com
Personnal Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm
A.E.Systems home page : http://www.aes.com.freeservers.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  3 05:34:45 1999
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From: Tstolper aol.com
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Mitchell,

Three U.S. senators attended the fall meeting of the American Nuclear Society?
That's an interesting sidelight on the conclave.  Do you recall who they were?

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  3 05:54:38 1999
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Frederick wrote:
> 
> To: Vortex
> 
> Several years ago the were "entrepreneurs"out selling kits for switching the
> alternators on
> cars and pick-up trucks to D.C. welders.

> Anyone know how this is done?

Using the alternator installed in my old Plymouth "Scamp", Fred, back in
the 70's, all I did was to determine the "pin-out" of the alternator
connector, find the field coil (in the rotor) terminal, and put a full
12 volts on the field.  I needed a power supply out in the "field" to
power my universal motor drill so I could drill many holes in a steel
tower structure.
I "blocked" the engine speed at maybe 3000 rpm and got a nice 100 volts
or so from the alternator.  The alternator was running disconnected
from the car - only the engine power was being used.
With a nice power rheostat to vary the field current, you could vary the
output volts from low to around 100 volts at the full 30 - 40 amps
rating of the unit, I guess.
Maybe a nice 200 volt, 25 amp full-wave bridge would work if you had
a variable resistor to control current.  A parallel bank of light bulbs
maybe?

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  3 06:04:19 1999
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Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 08:01:34 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: Automotive Alternator for Variable D.C. Power Supply?
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At 08:54 3/3/99 -0500, Francis J. Stenger wrote:

>Maybe a nice 200 volt, 25 amp full-wave bridge would work if you had
>a variable resistor to control current.  A parallel bank of light bulbs
>maybe?

The rectifiers are already inside the alternator.  There are 6 diodes,
typically, forming a full-wave rectifier for the 3-phase alternator output.

Aircraft generator welding kits I have seen advertised included a big
inductor for some reason....?



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  3 08:02:01 1999
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From: "Scudder, Henry J" <Henry.Scudder West.Boeing.com>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Automotive Alternator for Variable D.C. Power Supply?
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 07:59:36 -0800 
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Scott	
It's possible that the inductor was used in conjunction with an electronic
controller to regulate the current output If the inductance of the
alternater is small.

hank

> ----------
> From: 	Scott Little[SMTP:little eden.com]
> Reply To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
> Sent: 	Wednesday, March 03, 1999 6:01 AM
> To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
> Subject: 	Re: Automotive Alternator for Variable D.C. Power Supply?
> 
> At 08:54 3/3/99 -0500, Francis J. Stenger wrote:
> 
> >Maybe a nice 200 volt, 25 amp full-wave bridge would work if you had
> >a variable resistor to control current.  A parallel bank of light bulbs
> >maybe?
> 
> The rectifiers are already inside the alternator.  There are 6 diodes,
> typically, forming a full-wave rectifier for the 3-phase alternator
> output.
> 
> Aircraft generator welding kits I have seen advertised included a big
> inductor for some reason....?
> 
> 
> 
> Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
> Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
> 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  3 10:57:42 1999
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To: Vortex

With a 1 1/4 inch pipe nipple, a pipe cap,
a Tee,and miscellaneous fittings, a Carbon Welding Rod for the Anode,and the
K2CO3 or K metal, along with a propane torch or ethanol,EXPLOSION WARNING
PURGE THE AIR OUT BEFORE SPARKING! and a 10 to 40 ampere 35 to 110 volts
D.C.power supply (Auto Alternator or D.C. Welder) one is ready to do
calorimetry looking for OU heat.

When you think you got OU, you can ship it to Scott or send him a travel
voucher.  :-)

Regards,   Frederick



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  3 14:46:15 1999
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
cc: Frederick J Sparber <fjsparb sprintmail.com>
Subject: Why??? Re: Power Supply Design for 25 - 50 Ampere 110 Volt D.C. Arc?
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	Dear Fred and Vo.,

	Why do you want to do this?

On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Frederick J Sparber wrote:

> To: Vortex
> 
> It would be easy to design a H2/D2 Gas molten Potassium Cathode discharge
> vessel patterned after the old mercury arc rectifiers.
> 
> This way the potassium cathode would be self-healing and the hydrogen
> pressure and arc current/voltage can be variable.
> 
> One could do this with a piece of pipe, some potassium metal, a spark plug
> from an oil furnace,and hydrogen gotten from a small propane torch. The arc
> will break down the propane C3H8, to Cx + 4 H2.
> 
> The trick is the design of a regulated power
> supply. High current transformer and solid state circuitry?
> 
> Then when Scott gets through with undesigning a perpetual motion fantasy,
> you might get him to check you calorimetry results.   :-)
> 
> Regards,   Frederick
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  3 15:40:46 1999
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:05:49 -0500 (EST)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: vortexC-L eskimo.com
Subject: HOW ????Re: Call for experiments



On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Fred Epps wrote:

	cuts__________

> In fact you can make an argument that a many layered structure like this
> with


---- extremely low capacitance---

	How do many layers equal low capacitance?

 and a very low inductance as well
> (assuming nonferrous metal is used--ideally diamagnetic)

	How do either of these things equate to low inductance?


 is a perfect
> waveguide for maxwellian faster than light waves. 


	What are these ... maxwellian faster than light waves ?  

 In effect you are
> providing a structure that has a mu * e product less than that of free
> space, as a total structure (at least with enough layers). There are
> some valid criticisms of this viewpoint but there still seems to me to
> be something to it...
> 

	What do you mean?

> Fred
> 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  3 20:03:54 1999
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Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 22:56:50 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
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Scott Little wrote:
> 

> The rectifiers are already inside the alternator.  There are 6 diodes,
> typically, forming a full-wave rectifier for the 3-phase alternator output.

Right, Scott - my confusing post meant to refer to a regular house-line
supply here.  Yes, the alternator had internal diodes but no internal
voltage regulator - which is a plus, I guess, for non-standard
operation.
> 
> Aircraft generator welding kits I have seen advertised included a big
> inductor for some reason....?

I believe these series inductors are intended to serve as "arc
stabilizers" - if the arc drop goes up, the inductor provides a fast
voltage boost to maintain current, if the arc drop goes down, the
inductance provides some resistance to a current spike.  Anyone know if
this is right?
I think real welding generators have field designs to acomplish a
similar task and to drop output voltage in case the "stick" sticks.
(Like if Stenger tried to arc-weld) :-(

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  3 20:50:52 1999
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Subject: Re: Automotive Alternator for Variable D.C. Power Supply?
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-----Original Message-----
From: Francis J. Stenger <fstenger interlaced.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: Automotive Alternator for Variable D.C. Power Supply?

I think you're right Frank. The literature on Mercury Pool/Arc Rectifiers
says they use a series inductance to "hold" the discharge. On these they use
Two Anodes
with the pool tied to the center tap through the load and the inductance.
>
>Right, Scott - my confusing post meant to refer to a regular house-line
>supply here.

I'm stuck on trying to get around spending $300.00 on a high current
isolation transformer
so that having the "pipe" at ground out of wall-socket A.C. won't trip GFI
circuit breakers. Cheaper to buy a Sears A.C./D.C. "Stick welder".

>
>I believe these series inductors are intended to serve as "arc
>stabilizers" - if the arc drop goes up, the inductor provides a fast
>voltage boost to maintain current, if the arc drop goes down, the
>inductance provides some resistance to a current spike.  Anyone know if
>this is right?

Right,answer above.

>I think real welding generators have field designs to acomplish a
>similar task and to drop output voltage in case the "stick" sticks.
>(Like if Stenger tried to arc-weld) :-(

Hey, with those 1/25000 second electronic welding helmet "light suppressors"
($280.00) you can even get eye protection for laser pointer warfare.

Regards,  Frederick
>
>Frank Stenger
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  4 07:59:50 1999
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Subject: RE: HOW ????Re: Call for experiments (fwd)
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John
	If he knew what he meant he wouldn't be saying it.
Hank



> ----------
> From: 	John Schnurer[SMTP:herman antioch-college.edu]
> Reply To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
> Sent: 	Wednesday, March 03, 1999 3:29 PM
> To: 	Vortex
> Subject: 	HOW ????Re: Call for experiments (fwd)
> 
> John
> 	If he knew what he meant he wouldn't be saying it.
> Hank
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:05:49 -0500 (EST)
> From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
> To: vortexC-L eskimo.com
> Subject: HOW ????Re: Call for experiments
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Fred Epps wrote:
> 
> 	cuts__________
> 
> > In fact you can make an argument that a many layered structure like this
> > with
> 
> 
> ---- extremely low capacitance---
> 
> 	How do many layers equal low capacitance?
> 
>  and a very low inductance as well
> > (assuming nonferrous metal is used--ideally diamagnetic)
> 
> 	How do either of these things equate to low inductance?
> 
> 
>  is a perfect
> > waveguide for maxwellian faster than light waves. 
> 
> 
> 	What are these ... maxwellian faster than light waves ?  
> 
>  In effect you are
> > providing a structure that has a mu * e product less than that of free
> > space, as a total structure (at least with enough layers). There are
> > some valid criticisms of this viewpoint but there still seems to me to
> > be something to it...
> > 
> 
> 	What do you mean?
> 
> > Fred
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  4 23:37:46 1999
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Subject: Changing light bulb via Internet
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Message: 10  on aspartame onelist.com   discussion group
   Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 01:05:57 EST
   From: Sh0shanna aol.com
Subject: Time for an Internet :::giggle:::

 How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to
change a light bulb?

Answer:   1,343      ---   1 to change the light bulb and to post to the

mail list that the light bulb has been changed;
14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and
how the light bulb could have been changed differently;
7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs;
27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about
changing light bulbs;
53 to flame the spell checkers;
41 to correct spelling/grammar flames;
6 to argue over whether it´s ´´lightbulb´´ or ´´light bulb´´ and
another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive;
156 to write to the list administrator about the light bulb
discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list;
109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to
please take this email exchange to litebulb-l;
203 to demand that cross posting to grammar-l, spelling-l
and illuminati-l about changing light bulbs be stopped;
111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all
use light bulbs and therefore the posts *are* relevant to
this mail list;
306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is
superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of
light bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are
faulty;
27 to post URL´s where one can see examples of different
light bulbs;
14 to post that the URL´s were posted incorrectly and the
post the corrected URL´s;
3 to post about links they found from the URL´s that are
relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to
this list;
33 to link all posts to date, then quote them including all
headers and footers and then add ´´Me too´´;
12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because
they cannot handle the light bulb controversy;
19 to quote the ´´Me too´s´´ to say ´´Me three´´;
4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ;
44 to ask what is ´´FAQ´´;
4 to say ´´didn´t we go through this already a short time ago
on Usenet?´´
143 to ask ´´what´s Usenet?´






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To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Cc: <Claytor lanl.gov>, <Ron.Brodzinski@pnl.gov>
Subject: Wet Electrostatic (WESP) Precipitators for Nuclear Remdiation orTritium Production?
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 01:22:57 -0700
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IF, Neutrinos react with H+ or D+ forming "hydrinos" or quasineutrons,this
could be a way of making tritium or rad-waste remediation:
1,D-neutrino + D ---> T + neutrino + Proton
2,D-neutrino + R-W ---> Stable Daughter + neutrino. Lots of web sites on
Electrostatic Precipitators.    FJS

http://hatenney.com/page5.html

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  5 06:28:18 1999
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From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Senatorial interest in ANS meetings
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At 08:27 AM 3/3/99 EST, Tstolper aol.com wrote:
>Mitchell,
>
>Three U.S. senators attended the fall meeting of the American Nuclear
Society?
>That's an interesting sidelight on the conclave.  Do you recall who they
were?
>Tom Stolper



   Senator William Frist, Sen. Pete Domenici, 
and (ret.) Sen. Howard Baker.   

     Mitchell Swartz


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  5 06:37:43 1999
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From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
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At 10:27 PM 1/22/99 -0500, Keith Nagel wrote:
>At 08:55 PM 1/22/99 -0600, you wrote:
>>Systematic errors can be very insidious.  Sometimes a given investigator
>>has little or no chance of discovering his own systematic errors.  That's
>>why independent replication is such a powerful tool in experimental science.
>>
>>Scott Little 
>
>I'm trying to think of the equivalent term for "Systematic Success",
>when the original experiment works due to some component
>or system which functions in a manner unknown to the inventor
>yet is essential for results. Equally insidious, and annoying
>to peers and coworkers. "Well, it worked for me..." :^)
>
>K.



  Good point, Keith.   

 "Systematic success"
   Probably correct -  from the artistic/scientific positioning
of a "cat whisker" on galena - to the use of the optimal operating
point in cf systems.

   Mitchell Swartz



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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Free Potassium from K2CO3 in a Propane Arc Cell
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 22:36:19 GMT
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On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:31:44 -0700, Frederick J Sparber wrote:

>Check me out on this,Robin
>
>If slightly moistened K2CO3 or KOH is made the cathode in an Arc Cell
>slightly pressurized with propane from a small torch:
>
>1, C3H8 + arc heat ---> 3C + 4 H2
>
>2, K2CO3 + 2C ---> 2 K (vapor)+ 3 CO

Not sure if you can persuade carbon to donate its electrons to
potassium, the first ionisation energy of carbon is 11+ volts, while
that of potassium is only 4+ volts. I know this sort of reaction works
for some metals (e.g. lead), but I think potassium is asking a bit much.
(Of course the entropy increase due to gas formation also needs to be
taken into consideration, even so ....)
>
>3, K2CO3 + H2 --->  2 KOH + CO

I don't know whether or not this step will run.
>
>4, 2 KOH + 2 K <---> 2 K2O + H2
>
>Ignoring the CO which can be removed by flushing the cell with propane, one
>should end up with a goodly quantity of Free Potassium, Cx, and H2?
>
>Regards,  Frederick

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Free Potassium from K2CO3 in an Ethanol Vapor Arc Cell
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 22:17:52 GMT
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On Wed, 3 Mar 1999 04:28:19 -0700, Frederick J Sparber wrote:

>To: Vortex
>
>Since Ethanol (ethyl alcohol) CH3-CH2-OH (B.P. 78.4 deg C)is easy to come
>by. :-)

Why not use gasoline, it's cheaper ;).

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

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-----Original Message-----
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: Free Potassium from K2CO3 in an Ethanol Vapor Arc Cell

Robin wrote:


>On Wed, 3 Mar 1999 04:28:19 -0700, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
>
>>To: Vortex
>>
>>Since Ethanol (ethyl alcohol) CH3-CH2-OH (B.P. 78.4 deg C)is easy to come
>>by. :-)
>
>Why not use gasoline, it's cheaper ;).

Yes,but the Hydrogen to Carbon ratio is better using ethanol. If you want to
be picky, use vinegar CH3-CO-OH, this will react with the K2CO3 forming
Potassium Acetate:

2 CH3-CO-OH + K2CO3 ---> 2 CH3-CO-OK + CO2+ H2O

Then heat the cell to dry the acetate, then the Arc Heat will dissociate the
Acetate:

2 CH3-CO-OK + Arc Heat ---> C2H6 + CO2 + 2 K and sooner or later you end up
with free K. :-)

Or, there's always Vinegar and Oil(Salad Dressing) not as cheap as gasoline,
but it tastes better. :-)

Regards,   Frederick

>
>Regards,
>
>Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>
>
>

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-----Original Message-----
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: Free Potassium from K2CO3 in a Propane Arc Cell

Robin wrote:


>On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:31:44 -0700, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
>
>>Check me out on this,Robin.
>>
>>If slightly moistened K2CO3 or KOH is made the cathode in an Arc Cell
>>slightly pressurized with propane from a small torch:
>>
>>1, C3H8 + arc heat ---> 3C + 4 H2
>>
>>2, K2CO3 + 2C ---> 2 K (vapor)+ 3 CO
>
>Not sure if you can persuade carbon to donate its electrons to
>potassium, the first ionisation energy of carbon is 11+ volts, while
>that of potassium is only 4+ volts. I know this sort of reaction works
>for some metals (e.g. lead), but I think potassium is asking a bit much.

I'm not trying to make Potassium Carbide (KC)the purpose of the carbon from
the dissociated propane is to reduce the K2CO3 to elemental K.


>>
>>3, K2CO3 + H2 --->  2 KOH + CO
>
>I don't know whether or not this step will run.
>>
>>4, 2 KOH + 2 K <---> 2 K2O + H2

According to the "book" it does at high temperature.

Thanks for the critique.


Regards, Frederick


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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Free Potassium from K2CO3 in a Propane Arc Cell
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 04:50:07 GMT
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On Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:59:58 -0700, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>>Not sure if you can persuade carbon to donate its electrons to
>>potassium, the first ionisation energy of carbon is 11+ volts, while
>>that of potassium is only 4+ volts. I know this sort of reaction works
>>for some metals (e.g. lead), but I think potassium is asking a bit much.
>
>I'm not trying to make Potassium Carbide (KC)the purpose of the carbon from
>the dissociated propane is to reduce the K2CO3 to elemental K.
>

Potassium Carbide would involve the reduction of carbon, whereas the
reaction you propose involves its oxidation. I.e. carbon needs to donate
an electron to potassium in order to reduce the potassium.
(Or O-- needs to donate electrons; this might just work, if the O binds
with C in the process).
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  6 01:16:48 1999
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To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Free Potassium from K2CO3 in a Propane Arc Cell
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Robin wrote,
>
>This might work...
Snip

When you get to the nitty gritty, Robin. :-)

Molecule  Bond Energy  Ionization Energies
                       Molecule    Atom

H2 (H-H)   4.53 ev     15.427 ev  H (13.6 ev)

Li2(Li-Li) 1.10 ev     4.90 ev    Li (5.4 ev)

Na2(Na-Na) 0.76 ev      ?         Na (5.14 ev)

K2 (K-K)   0.60 ev      ?         K (4.34 ev)

C2 (C-C)   6.30 ev      12.6 ev   C (11.26 ev)

As you can see, the atoms like to form di-atomic molecules which cannot be
ignored if you want to create reactive "free radicals".

As I see it,the plasma conditions ( >5000 Kelvin)are required if you want to
pull off "Hydrino"/Quasineutron stuff.

Regards,  Frederick



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Message-ID: <19990306132532.21707.rocketmail send1e.yahoomail.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 05:25:32 -0800 (PST)
From: ron kita <tekcorman yahoo.com>
Subject: Antigravity machines
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Cc: antigravnews rocketmail.com
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Greetings Vortekians,

I just received my latest copy of New Scientist
and on page 56 there is a curious note:
See our web site for further letters on ANTIGRAVITY
MACHINES....27feb1999 issue
web site is http://www.newscientist.com
Best,
Ron Kita
Antigravitics_R_US
more web info at http://www.padrak.com/agn
agn=antigravity news
Jim Cox formely of TRW Space PArk Redondo publisher
antigravitynews rocketmail.com



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  6 12:10:19 1999
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Subject: Re: Reality Check. Solar Burning vs A Plasma Arc Cell
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To: Vortex

               The Sun             Plasma Cell

Mass           2.0E30 Kg             0.002 Kg

Volume         1.435E27 meter^3        1.0 L

Surface Temp    5,780 K                 6,000 K

Surface Density 0.150 Kg/meter^3         --

Core Temp        ~= 2.0E7 K             6,000 K

Core Density     ~= 1.5E7 Kg/meter^3     small

Heat/Meter^2      6,34E7 (watts)         ---

Heat/Meter^3       0.27 (watts)          input

Heat/Kg            2.0E-4 (watts)        input

Mass Loss       4.3E6 Tonnes/sec       Not Much

Tough Row to Hoe for"Hydrinos"/Quasineutrinos,isn't it?   :-)

Regards,    Frederick





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At 05:25 AM 03/06/99 -0800, Ron Kita wrote:
>Greetings Vortekians,
>
>I just received my latest copy of New Scientist
>and on page 56 there is a curious note:
>See our web site for further letters on ANTIGRAVITY
>MACHINES....27feb1999 issue
>web site is http://www.newscientist.com



Hi Ron, and all,

You are referring to the reference that was recently placed into the
archived section of New Scientist.
<http://www.newscientist.com/ns/19990227/letters17.html>
(below)


This $600,000 is just a red herring isn't it--  What are they trying to do?
-- Give out an Award for Government Waste? I thought the funding was only
from 40 to $60,000., NOT $600,000 (?) Did not the higher figure represent
only POSSIBLE funding ==> ONLY IF Superconductor Components'  built a 12
inch model that WORKED.. (?)


It's just a letter from a DAVID BYRDEN-- but it requires a firm rebuttal to
NS from someone (smarter than me :) -- on SEVERAL points. 

ALSO-- If a NASA or Vortex-l engineer or scientist does NOT rebut these
(more and more frequent) criticisms, we may eventually see ALL funding for
NASAs 'Advanced Projects' pulled.  
- I hope I DON'T see a familiar pattern developing here.  
 
At the very least, Mr. David Byrden AND New Scientist have not even BEGUN
to do their homework:

BTW, an interesting point is brought up-- where IS Podkletnov's original
apparatus?? 
( I have heard from an unreliable source that it was sledge-hammer
destroyed by the new Chancellor of Tampere University as he was heard
crying,, "EVIL --  SPAWN OF THE DEVIL!!"   ;-)

Best Regards, 
Colin Quinney 
===============================================
                [Archive: 27 February 1999]

	"Lost cause? 

	E. E. Podkletnov described his antigravity work in
	Wired magazine recently (This Week, 6 February, p 6).
    	Judging by his own words, I have two substantial reasons
	to doubt his claims.
	First reason: gravity follows an inverse square law; it is
	apparently mediated by virtual particles that do not
	interfere with each other (like photons). Hence, as Newton
	pointed out, we can calculate the pull of the Earth by
	dividing the planet into pieces and summing the pull
	vectors of the pieces.

	This implies that if a device could deflect or absorb
	gravitons, its effects would fade away quickly as you rose
	above it. The further below you the device was, the more
	exposed you would be to the pull of the gravitons emerging
	from the Earth all around it.

	But this is not the behaviour claimed by Podkletnov. He
	claims to produce a beam of reduced mass reaching up like
	a searchlight. One storey above his (quite small) machine,
	he claims the same amount of weight loss as immediately
	above it. 

	A second reason to doubt his claim: he reports that air
	pressure is lowered above his apparatus. This is nonsense.
	Even if he could reduce the weight of a vertical shaft of
	air, more air would rush in from the sides to equalise
	reduced pressure.

	Please inform NASA that for considerably less than 
	$600 000 I will fly to Moscow and test Podkletnov's
	original apparatus.

	DAVID BYRDEN 
	Blackrock, Co. Dublin

	First Appeared on New Scientist Website, 24 February 1999





                                                                 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  7 05:29:39 1999
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From: "Frederick J Sparber" <fjsparb sprintmail.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Catalytic or Plasma Combustor?
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 06:25:54 -0700
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To: Vortex

Hydrogen (H2), Natural Gas (CH4), or Propane (C3H8), can be burned in a
catalytic or plasma arc combustor which will generate the monatomic H
radical that may form the hydrino/quasineutron especially if the atmospheric
air contains the "Neutrino Gas" in a state that IS NOT possible on the Sun.

                  Combustion Data

The flame temperatures for H2, CH4, and Propane
ranges from 3,500 to 4,000 Deg F at 100% theoretical air. With the Plasma
Arc "assist" the temperature could approach 15,000 F or so.

Fuel  LHV Btu/Lb #air/#fuel  CO2   H2O    N2

H2      51,600      34.2     0.0   8.94  26.28

CH4     21,520      17.2     2.75  2.48  13.22

C3H8    19,944      15.65    3.00  1.64  12.02

The nice thing about propane is that you can get it from the 20# bottles
used for camping or the back yard barbecue grill with up to 200 psig
pressure on a hot summer day.

The gas company frowns on you tapping into the high pressure (40 to 60 psig)
side of you gas meter pressure regulator.  :-)

With Steam or Water Injection into the combustors, along with varying the
air/fuel ratio a hydrogen fuel isn't required:

C3H8 + H2O + Air ---> 3 CO2 + 4 H2O + 2 H + N2 etc.

Regards,    Frederick


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  7 07:25:04 1999
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Edwin Strojny <estrojny freeway.net>
Subject: Re: Catalytic or Plasma Combustor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"iYiHD2.0.nj1.LZfus" mx1>
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At 06:25 AM 3/7/99 -0700, Frederick Sparber wrote:
>To: Vortex

>With Steam or Water Injection into the combustors, along with varying the
>air/fuel ratio a hydrogen fuel isn't required:
>
>C3H8 + H2O + Air ---> 3 CO2 + 4 H2O + 2 H + N2 etc.
>
>Regards,    Frederick
>
>
One would have to be very careful in the propane/air ratio.  I can write the
equation which will produce no H.

2 C3H8 + 7 O2 ----> 6 CO + 8 H2O  (Probably explosively!)
  C3H8 + 5 O2 ----> 3 CO2 + 4 H2O ( Also Explosively!)

Ed Strojny


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-----Original Message-----
From: Edwin Strojny <estrojny freeway.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: Catalytic or Plasma Combustor?

Ed Strojny wrote:


>At 06:25 AM 3/7/99 -0700, Frederick Sparber wrote:
>>To: Vortex
>
>>With Steam or Water Injection into the combustors, along with varying the
>>air/fuel ratio a hydrogen fuel isn't required:
>>
>>C3H8 + H2O + Air ---> 3 CO2 + 4 H2O + 2 H + N2 etc.
>>
>>Regards,    Frederick
>>
>>
>One would have to be very careful in the propane/air ratio.  I can write
the
>equation which will produce no H.
>
>2 C3H8 + 7 O2 ----> 6 CO + 8 H2O  (Probably explosively!)

No problem there Ed, a simple shift catalyst will react the CO and water to
CO2 and H2:

6 CO + 6 H2O ----> 6 CO2 + 6 H2

Done all the time in refinery Steam Reforming.:-)

>  C3H8 + 5 O2 ----> 3 CO2 + 4 H2O ( Also Explosively!)

The talk of GAS STATIONS in the future is that they will react CxHy with
steam to reform it onsite to CO2 and H2:

2xH2O + CxHy ---> xCO2 + 2xH2+Hy) so that the CO2 is kept out of the
atmosphere and will go into CO2 STORAGE WELLS. Piece of cake.

Regards,  Frederick


Ever hear of Flow Meters, Ed?  :-)
>
>Ed Strojny
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  7 16:37:50 1999
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Edwin Strojny <estrojny freeway.net>
Subject: Re: Catalytic or Plasma Combustor?
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At 10:53 AM 3/7/99 -0700, Frederick Sparber wrote:
>

>
>
>Ever hear of Flow Meters, Ed?  :-)
>

A lot of my last years of research as a chemist involved the partial
oxidation of hydrocarbons to useful organic intermediates, so yes I have
heard of flow meters.  We had to be careful to keep the hydrocarbons below
the explosion limits of the hydrocarbons in use.

Ed Strojny

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  7 17:32:14 1999
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Subject: Re: Why Neutrinos Might be More Reactive Away From The Sun?
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To: Vortex

A FWIW Exercise:

Neutrino mass/energy (Eo) taken as 0.5 ev.

Mo = Eo/c^2 = 8.88E-37 Kg

1, Mrel = Mo[(kT/Eo)+1]

2, v = {2kT/Mo[(kT/Eo)+1]}^1/2

T (K)      v (meters/second)

300             9.42E7

1000            1.63E8

2000            2.15E8

6000            3.0E8 ~= c

>6000             c

2.0E7 K           c     (Mrel = 3.06E-33 Kg)

I would think that when Mrel = Me (the mass of the electron)that there would
be some energy-depleting elastic collisions with the electrons?

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  7 17:48:25 1999
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-----Original Message-----
From: Edwin Strojny <estrojny freeway.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Catalytic or Plasma Combustor?

Ed Strojny wrote:


>At 10:53 AM 3/7/99 -0700, Frederick Sparber wrote:
>>
>>
>>Ever hear of Flow Meters, Ed?  :-)
>>
>
>A lot of my last years of research as a chemist involved the partial
>oxidation of hydrocarbons to useful organic intermediates, so yes I have
>heard of flow meters.  We had to be careful to keep the hydrocarbons below
>the explosion limits of the hydrocarbons in use.

Okay, okay Ed, I got your point. :-)

I used a Roots blower with a Propane Tank in an annular alumina catalytic
combustor for a Biomass gasifier furnace. I could easily hold the
temperature at 1600 F within a few degrees
by varying the fuel ratio once the catalyst warmed up.

I ALWAYS HAD THE IGNITER PLUG ACTIVATED BEFORE TURNING ON THE PROPANE!

Regards,   Frederick
>
>Ed Strojny
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  8 08:38:41 1999
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Subject: Re: Sailing The Neutrino Sea?
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To: Vortex

At 8.88E-37 Kg, moving at 9.46E6 meters/sec at 3 K (v =
{2kT/[(kT/Eo)+1]}^1/2)the neutrinos should have a "Space Density" of about
226 Grams/cm^2/Light-Year.

Is the 2.4 millimeter (3 K) radiation due to the Cold-Neutrino Sea?

No wonder there are reports that the Deep-Space Probes are mysteriously
"Slowing Down".  :-)

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  8 17:31:36 1999
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Subject: Re: "Lawnmower Man" Vindicated"?
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To: Vortex

With the Hydrino/Quasineutron/Neutrino connection with the atmosphere, maybe
the air-breathing engines are a place to look.

Then there's the Diesel "That Could" on sea water,K+ and Na+ ions in there .
Hoffman?

A 16:1 compression ratio gets the vapors as hot as need for
Hydrino/Quasineutron energy release.

I guess putting a few pounds of wood ashes in a 5 gallon can and filling it
with water,and soaking overnight will give a goodly supply of water charged
with K2CO3. (Makes a great biomass hydrolysis catalyst,too). Filter through
a T-shirt. Keep away from lime (Ca(OH)2) it goes to CaCO3 + 2 KOH. Unless
you want to
make soap,too.  :-)

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  9 06:46:09 1999
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From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: test 
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test
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
Lady Lake, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  9 09:18:43 1999
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Subject: Ibison: very critical review of R.L.Mills opus in JSE
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--------------94CE748903550F2E0533CACA
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Rich Murray   Room For All
1943  Otowi Drive
Santa Fe, NM 87505
595-986-9103   505-920-6130 cellular VoiceStream
rmforall earthlink.net
March 9, 1999

Hello,  I found the" Journal for Scientific Exploration"
[  www.jse.com  ] at the Ark, a very fine new age bookstore in Santa Fe.

Winter, 1998, 12(4), 621-4:

Michael Ibison  [ ibison ntr.net  ] reviews the long opus, "Grand
Unified Theory of Classical Quantum Mechanics," by Randell L. Mills [
"Dr. Randell L. Mills" <blp1 earthlink.net> ] of BlackLight Power.
Ibison points out simple inconsistencies and errors in the starting
mathematics, and concludes that the whole book is in error.

[  http://www.blacklightpower.com/  ]

Ibison works with H. E. Puthoff at the Institute for Advanced Studies in
Austin, TX, the same address as:

Scott R. Little
EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX
78759
512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX)
little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

While I have your attention, I noticed two items in Infinite Energy
Magazine, Jan-Feb, 1999, 4(23):

p. 16     H.E. "Chip" Ransford, Nova Resources Group, Inc., Denver, CO,
303-534-0678, said:

"Miley's careful analysis showed that in some cases, up to 40 % of the
parent metal mass had transmutted to other elements."

Miley's work in 1996  with nickel plated beads in light water
electrolyte is obviously very poorly done and described.  It has not
been replicated.  Miley has not published further experimental work, and
neither has his research partner, Clean Energy Technologies, Inc.  If
you are interested, I can email you a number of detailed critiques by
myself and others.

p. 43    Daniel Cavicchio, New Energy Partners, [ www.new-energy.com ],
203-629-4447,  who hoped to have a fund of $ 5 million to invest by the
end of 1998:

"NASA replicated the BlackLight Power cell, showing that it produced
excess heat."

This apparently refers to the report by Niedra et al on a Ni cathode
with light water electrolytic cell.   The report itself admits that
Faraday recombination could account for the small energy excess.  No
other team has proved excess heat with Ni cathodes with light water.
BlackLight Power itself has long ago abandoned their electrolytic cells
for hot gas cells.  NASA also has not contined this line of research.
Mitchell Swartz [ mica world.std.com ] still maintains that his nickel
and light water cells had generated excess heat, but I am not aware of
any independent replications.
[quoted by Scott R. Little on 2.18.99:]
In the latest issue of New Energy News (Vol 6 No 7 Jan 1999) on p. 11:

"JET TECHNOLOGY OFFERS EXCESS HEAT UNITS
Courtesy Dr. Mitch Swartz

In a first-of-a-kind, JET Technology, Inc. has mailed an advertising
leaflet announcing the following:
JET Energy Technology sysem use the generation of heat at low
temperatures
to develop electrical energy and other products.  There novel
technologies
can develop heat apparently beyond that which is electrically applied,
in
an amount ranging from 2 to 400% or more. The peak power levels achieved

with these systems have increased from 1989 (~20 watts per cc palladium)
to
levels now approaching two orders of magnitude greater. These high
technology systems are advertised as "Patents Pending." For more
information contact (781) 237-3625, email: mica world.std.com
Web Site:   http:..workd.std.com/~mica/jet.html   "

SOCIETY FOR SCIENTIFIC EXPLORATION

http://www.jse.com/eighteenth.html

 Announcement and Call for Papers
 18th Annual SSE Meeting
  June 3–5, 1999     $ 100
  University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
The eighteenth annual SSE meeting will be held in Northrop Hall
(Geology) on the campus of the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque
on June 3-5, 1999. . Local host is:
   Dr. John S. Derr
   US Geological Survey
   Albuquerque Seismological Laboratory
   Bldg 10002, Kirtland AFBE
   Albuquerque, NM 87115
   phone: (505) 846-5646
   fax: (505) 846-6973
   email: derr asl.cr.usgs.gov

   Program Information

   Four special sessions focus on “Shaking the Pillars of the Paradigm,”
“Cold Fusion,” “Reports on Anomalous
   Phenomena,” and “Suppression of New Science.” Contributed papers from
the membership on these and other topics
   are welcome. Titles and abstracts should be sent by mail or e-mail
(preferred) (in plain ASCII text) to:

   Dr. John O’M. Bockris
   4973 Afton Oaks Drive
   College Station, TX 77845
   e-mail: bockris myriad.net

   Those presenting contributed papers should be prepared to present
their papers in “poster paper” format.

   Deadline for receipt of abstracts is April 15. It would help the
program committee if speakers could submit the full paper
   or an extended abstract of about 1000 words by May 1. Only the
shorter abstracts will be printed in the meeting
   program book.

   Topics and Invited Speakers (Provisional)

   General Information: Reception, Banquet

   A reception will take place on the evening of Wednesday, June 2, at
the conference hotel, La Posada de Albuquerque.
   This historic hotel was Conrad Hilton’s first, and is on the national
register of historic buildings. The hotel and conference
   are at an altitude of 5300 ft. The Annual Banquet will be held at the
High Finance Restaurant on top of Sandia Crest,
   Saturday evening, June 5. The price of the banquet, $35, includes the
ride on the world’s longest tramway to an altitude
   of 10,000 ft, overlooking the city and the Rio Grande rift. Maximum
capacity at the restaurant is 120, so early
   registrations are advised.

   Weather

   Early June weather in Albuquerque is expected to be just like it was
for the Santa Fe meeting: temperature: nighttime
   low: 55-60F, daytime high: 90-95F; relative humidity:10-15%; any rain
will be brief. This is really quite comfortable, if
   you follow the local dress code -- no coats and ties allowed. On top
of Sandia Crest, for the banquet, expect to need a
   sweater and windbreaker.

   Local Attractions

   Visits to historic Old Town are a short ride from downtown by Sun
Trolley. Special discount arrangements have been
   made for purchasing authentic Indian jewelry at Silver Sun, both in
Albuquerque and Santa Fe. The Albuquerque
   Museum and the New Mexico Museum of Natural History are also located
at Old Town. Other attractions include the
   National Atomic Museum on Kirtland Air Force Base, the Indian Pueblo
Cultural Center, the Albuquerque Aquarium,
   the Rio Grande Zoo, and the city of Santa Fe, a one-hour drive north.
On the University of New Mexico campus there
   is the Maxwell Museum of Anthropology and the Museum of Meteoritics.

   Conference Hotel

   A block of rooms has been reserved (until May 3) at:

   La Posada de Albuquerque
   125 Second St. NW
   Albuquerque, NM 87102
   phone: (800) 777-5732, or (505) 242-9090
   fax: (505) 242-8664

   This hotel has offered a reduced (government) rate to the Society for
Scientific Exploration: single, $70; double, $70;
   triple, $92; quad $103, all including tax. Parking is an additional
$5/day. Airport transportation is provided by Checker
   Airport Express ($8). The hotel is located in downtown Albuquerque, 1
3/4 miles west of the meeting site, just off
   Central Ave (historic Route 66). Public transport by bus is
available, directly down Central Ave. Van transport mornings
   and evenings between La Posada, University Lodge, and Northrop Hall
will be provided. For those wanting their own
   cars, group rental rates have been arranged with Budget Car Rental.
Call (800) 828-3438 and mention group code U
   054676. Special parking passes for the UNM campus are being arranged.

   Budget Hotel

   As a budget, no-frills alternative, a block of 25 rooms has been
reserved (until May 15) at:

   University Lodge
   3711 Central Ave
   Albuquerque, NM 87108
   phone: (505) 266-7663
   e-mail: Sdharas aol.com

   Rates are $30 for single or double, including tax. This motel is in
the Knob Hill area, 1 mile east of the meeting location
   and 2 3/4 miles from La Posada. Taxi from the airport is ~ $8;
parking is free.

   Travel Arrangements

   Albuquerque is served by most major airlines: American, Continental,
Delta, TWA, USAirways, and United. It is also
   served by Southwest and America West, which may be the budget choices
for many, as well as many other regional
   carriers. While it will be possible to attend all Society functions
without your own transportation, having one rental car
   for every 4 or 5 attendees will make some functions run more
smoothly, and is almost a requirement for spouses or
   guests who want to see the city and the region instead of attending
the meetings. The university area is fairly dense, but
   the city suffers from severe sprawl.

   Society members, guests, and others planning to attend this meeting,
may be interested in taking advantage of group air
   fares. Special agreements have been made with Global Travel
Management to assist with any travel arrangements you
   may need. This agency has contracted with American and Southwest
Airlines for an additional discount off their lowest
   applicable fares for SSE Meeting attendees. In general, those coming
from the east will usually find American the carrier
   of choice. Those coming from the west will probably find that
Southwest offers the best choices. Global will be able to
   offer you the best fare and schedule for your particular situation.

   Two Global agents have been assigned to assist the SSE group with
their travel arrangements. Please call:

   Global Travel Management, phone: 1-888-607-1717

   and ask to speak to Carol Perlman or Susan Ault, as they are the ones
familiar with our organization and its contracts
   with American and Southwest. Note that you must make your
reservations with Global in order to qualify for these
   special discounts. Not only will you save money, if enough people
make reservations, the Society will receive a small
   bonus. This is a win-win situation for everyone, so we encourage you
to use Global for your reservations.

   A formal announcement will be mailed in early February 1999, as
usual, to Society members and associates concerning
   registration, program, and other arrangements.

   Websites and Phone Numbers

   University of New Mexico

   Dept. of Earth and Planetary Sciences

   Museum of Meteoritics

   La Posada de Albuquerque

   High Finance Restaurant

   Sandia Crest, tramway

   Silver Sun, Indian jewelry, Albuquerque & Santa Fe

   Albuquerque Museum of Art & History

   New Mexico Museum of Natural History

   National Atomic Museum

   Indian Pueblo Cultural Center

   Maxwell Museum of Anthropology

   City of Santa Fe

   Albuquerque Aquarium (505) 764-6200

   Rio Grande Zoo (505) 764-6200

   Checker Airport Express (800) 395-7680, fax (505) 243-2602




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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  9 12:19:58 1999
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Subject: CF at APS conference
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http://www.aps.org/meet/CENT99/

The American Physical Society will celebrate its 100th Anniversary in
conjunction with the 1999 Centennial Meeting to be held next March 20-26 in
Atlanta, Georgia. The Centennial program will include special Centennial
events, and will combine the traditional March and April meetings of the
Society, with all APS units participating in the scientific program. We
expect 7,000-8,000 attendees from around the world, including approximately
forty Nobel Laureates. 


http://www.aps.org/meet/CENT99/BAPS/tocZ.html#SZC07.001

Session ZC07. DCMP: Palladium Electrochemistry. 
Friday afternoon, 14:00, Room 365W, GWCC

14:00 ZC07.01 A Search for Cold Fusion Heat from Deuterided Pd Powder
  T.A. Chubb, S.R. Chubb (Oakton International Corporation, 5023 N 38 St,
  Arlington, VA 22207), G.L. Schmidt (New Mexico Engineering Research
  Laboratory, 901 University Blvd. SE, Albuquerque, NM 87106-4339) 

14:12 ZC07.02 Cavitation Produced Anomalous Heat 
  R.S. Stringham (First Gate Energies, 2166 Old Middlefield Way, Mountain
  View, CA 94043) 

14:24 ZC07.03 Solid State Nuclear Reactions: Several Convincing
Experiments 
  Eugene F. Mallove (New Energy Research Laboratory, PO Box 2816, Concord, NH
  03302-2816) 

14:36 ZC07.04 Rules for Coherent, Low Temperature Nuclear Reactions
in Solids 
  Scott Chubb, Talbot Chubb (Oakton International Corporation, 5023 N. 38
  St., Arlington, VA 22207) 

14:48 ZC07.05 Anomalous Heat Generated by Electrolysis Using a
Palladium Cathode and Heavy Water 
  E. K. Storms (Energy K. Systems, Santa Fe, NM 87501) 

15:00 ZC07.06 Evidence for Concomitant Heat and Helium Production in
the D/Pd System 
  Michael C. H. McKubre, Francis L. Tanzella (SRI International, Menlo Park,
  CA) 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  9 13:03:31 1999
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Message-ID: <36E58BA9.766857F5 verisoft.com.tr>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 22:59:21 +0200
From: hamdi ucar <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
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Subject: Re: Sailing The Neutrino Sea? (eprint:gr-qc/9903024)
References: <000101be6981$75fc01a0$53441d26 default>
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A new paper released on LANL archive about the Deep-Space Probes "slowing down":

General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology, abstract
gr-qc/9903024
From: Slava G. Turyshev <turyshev jpl.nasa.gov>
Date (v1): Sat, 6 Mar 1999 00:26:33 GMT   (28kb)
Date (revised v2): Sat, 6 Mar 1999 01:59:48 GMT   (33kb)
The Apparent Anomalous, Weak, Long-Range Acceleration of Pioneer 10 and 11
Authors: Slava G. Turyshev, John D. Anderson, Philip A. Laing, Eunice L. Lau, Anthony S. Liu, Michael Martin Nieto
Comments: Latex, 7 pages and 2 figures. Invited talk at the XXXIV-th Rencontres de Moriond Meeting on Gravitational Waves and Experimental Gravity. Les Arcs, Savoi, France (January 23-30,1999)
Report-no: LANL report # LA-UR-99-890


Recently we reported that radio Doppler data generated by NASA's Deep Space Network (DSN) from the Pioneer 10 and 11 spacecraft indicate an apparent anomalous, constant, spacecraft acceleration with a magnitude $\sim 8.5\times 10^{-8}$ cm s$^{-2}$, direct

ed towards the Sun (gr-qc/9808081). Analysis of similar Doppler and ranging data from the Galileo and Ulysses spacecraft yielded ambiguous results for the anomalous acceleration, but it was useful in that it ruled out the possibility of a systematic error

 in the DSN Doppler system that could easily have been mistaken as a spacecraft acceleration. Here we present some new results, including a critique suggestions that the anomalous acceleration could be caused by collimated thermal emission. Based partiall

y on a further data for the Pioneer 10 orbit determination, the data now spans January 1987 to July 1998, our best estimate of the average Pioneer 10 acceleration directed towards the Sun is $\sim 7.5 \times 10^{-8}$ cm s$^{-2!
}$. 


Frederick J Sparber wrote:
> 
> To: Vortex
> 
> At 8.88E-37 Kg, moving at 9.46E6 meters/sec at 3 K (v =
> {2kT/[(kT/Eo)+1]}^1/2)the neutrinos should have a "Space Density" of about
> 226 Grams/cm^2/Light-Year.
> 
> Is the 2.4 millimeter (3 K) radiation due to the Cold-Neutrino Sea?
> 
> No wonder there are reports that the Deep-Space Probes are mysteriously
> "Slowing Down".  :-)
> 
> Regards,   Frederick

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  9 18:05:15 1999
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From: "Frederick J Sparber" <fjsparb sprintmail.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Vinegar-Fueled I.C. Engine?
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:00:33 -0700
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This Might do it,Robin.

Household vinegar obtained from oxidized ethanol (apple-jack, CH3-CH2-OH +
O2 ---> CH3-CO-OH +H2O)can be reacted with the K2CO3 leached from wood ashes
to form Potassium Acetate:

2 CH3-CO-OH + K2CO3 ---> 2 CH3-CO-OK + H2O +CO2

One hundred cm^3 of H2O dissolves over 250 grams of acetate at 30 deg C. and
almost 500 grams at 62 deg C.

The CH3 (methyl group)and CO will oxidize to 2 COx and H2O + H radicals
which  should react with the K2O formed (which dissociates at about 500 C).

With this Elixir injected into a cheap I.C. engine (Like a certain Farmall
Super A) :-)the 40-1000% OU gain should almost pop the heads right off the
thing.

With water/Calcium Chloride in the tires and a couple of tons of wheel
weights, pulling
an 8 bottom set of 16 inch plows shouldn't be any problem.

Regrets,  Frederick




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 10 09:40:09 1999
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March 10, 1999

Hello Dr. Mills,   Would you be willing to post an answer to some of the
very specific criticisms made by Ibison about the mathematics in your
book?   Can you refer us to some mathematical physicists who support
your approach, and are building upon it in their work?

I admit I am skeptical, but have to rely on the judgements of those more
qualified.

Thank you,   Rich Murray

Subject:  Re: Ibison: very critical review of R.L.Mills opus in JSE
   Date:    Wed, 10 Mar 99 08:15:32 -0000
   From:   "Dr. Randell L. Mills" <blp1 earthlink.net>
     To:     "Richard T. Murray" <rmforall earthlink.net>

It seems that there is a conflict of interest in that Ibison is with
EarthTech which has persistently solicited to test BLP technology with
their calorimeter while promoting energy from the vacuum.  My theory is
proven by the 25 types of analytical tests presented in 500 pages of
data
in said book which is posted on our webpage, www.blacklightpower.com.
Let's see EarthTech post their energy from the vacuum data.  My
prediction, "there aint no free lunch".



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	What are you writing about?  Are you asking BLP to answer 
questions?  Is BLP asking you to post vacuum data?

	What is the NFL part about?

	Do you have vacuum data?

				J

			This is presented in a confusing manner.

				J

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Subject: FWD: Daily News Letter by Dr. Mel Miles
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Forwarded message (Dr. Miles is currently unsubscribed)


> Date:          Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:15:22 -0800 (PST)
> From:          el <melmiles ridgecrest.ca.us>
> Subject:       Daily News Letter
> March 7, 1999
> 
> 
> Daily News
> Public Forum
> P.O. Box 4200
> Woodland Hills, CA 91365-4200
> 
> Dear Public Forum:
> 
> I read with interest your recent article regarding Professor Nathan Lewis
> and his quest for an artificial nose (Daily News, L.A. Life Section, pp.
> 3-4, March 1, 1999).
> 
> Regarding the first paragraph about Professor Lewis' background, I strongly
> object to your statement that "A decade ago, he led a team that handily
> debunked the myth of cold fusion".  The actual facts are that cold fusion
> research continues, and that I and others handily debunked his research
> results on this topic (see for example the Journal of Physical Chemistry,
> Vol. 98, pp. 1948-1952, 1994).  Professor Lewis has never replied to the
> various errors that I and others exposed about his research and to the fact
> that his results actually support the cold fusion claims of excess heat.
> The Seventh International Conference on cold fusion was held April 19-24,
> 1998 in Vancouver, Canada, the Intersociety Energy Conversion Engineering
> Conference held August 2-6, 1998 in Colorado Springs contained a cold fusion
> session, and the prestigious American Physical Society meeting in Atlanta
> will have a session relating to cold fusion on Friday, March 26, 1999.  The
> web location for the abstracts of the session in Atlanta is the following:
> 
> http://www.aps.org/meet/CENT99/BAPS/abs/S9500.html
> 
> Cold fusion is obviously not a debunked science as claimed in your article,
> but progress is slow since we do not yet understand this new phenomena.
> 
> 
> 
> As a taxpayer, I hope Professor Lewis' government funded work on an
> artificial nose is a vast improvement over his flawed escapade into cold fusion.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Melvin H. Miles
> NAWCWPNS Fellow
> 
> Home address:  
> 807 Mamie Avenue
> Ridgecrest, CA 93555
> 
> Daytime Telephone number:
> 760-939-1652
> 
> copies:
> Usha Lee McFarling, Knight Ridder Newspapers
> Professor Nathan Lewis, California Institute of Technology
> Professor Martin Fleischmann, U.K.
> Dr. Eugene Mallove, Editor, Infinite Energy
> Professor Mostafa A. El-Sayed, Editor, Journal of Physical Chemistry
> 
> 
> 
> 

((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

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Subject:   Re: Ibison: very critical review of R.L.Mills opus in JSE
        Date:  Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:48:52 +0100
       From:    Dieter Britz <db kemi.aau.dk>
 Organization:   University of Aarhus, Department of Computer Science
(DAIMI)
 Newsgroups:  sci.physics.fusion
  References:  1

On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Richard T. Murray wrote:

> Rich Murray   Room For All
> 1943  Otowi Drive
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
> 595-986-9103   505-920-6130 cellular VoiceStream
> rmforall earthlink.net
> March 9, 1999
>
> Hello,  I found the" Journal for Scientific Exploration"
> [  www.jse.com  ] at the Ark, a very fine new age bookstore in Santa
Fe.
>
> Winter, 1998, 12(4), 621-4:
>
> Michael Ibison  [ ibison ntr.net  ] reviews the long opus, "Grand
> Unified Theory of Classical Quantum Mechanics," by Randell L. Mills [
> "Dr. Randell L. Mills" <blp1 earthlink.net> ] of BlackLight Power.
> Ibison points out simple inconsistencies and errors in the starting
> mathematics, and concludes that the whole book is in error.

It might be worse than just an error. As I reported here a few weeks
ago, there is a problem. The Blacklight web site claims that a number
of labs are doing replications of the Mills work. These are all named,
and among them is "Virgina Tech", which I was informed means VPI
(Virginia Polytechnical Institute). This is claimed to be doing Raman
spectroscopy for Mills. I checked at that place and found a Raman
researcher
there, who also knows all the others (I think there were four in all).
None
of them is doing any checking for Mills, this is news to all of them.

This seems to throw doubt on Mills' claims. He has not commented so far.

-- Dieter Britz alias db kemi.aau.dk;  http://www.kemi.aau.dk/~db



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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 11 02:26:28 1999
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Subject: Re: The "Neutrino Gas" and the Sodium/Potassium Ratio in Surface Waters
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To: Vortex

The Anomalous Missing Potassium in Sea Water still begs the question of
Neutrino Catalyzed
Reactions/Transmutations involving Protons or Deuterons:

P-Neutrino + 19K39 ---> 20Ca40 + Neutrino

D-Neutrino + 19K39 ---> 20Ca40 + Neutron + Neutrino

With some 1.0E19 Deuterons/cm^3 in water they cannot be ignored.

Some Sodium and Potassium concentrations in various bodies of water:

                       mg/liter

              Sodium     Potassium   Na/K Ratio

Ocean          1.05E4      3.8E2       27.63

Dead Sea       1.165E5     1.85E4      6.30

Manito Lake    1.68E5      1.0E4       16.8

Pelican Lake   2.92E5      3.58E4      8.2

Irish Lakes     8.60        0.50       17.2

Rivers          8.40        3.10        2.7

English Rain   0.2-7.5     0.05-0.7   4.0-150

Add this to the claims of Transmutation of Potassium to Calcium in Eggs and
Microbes. :-)

FJS



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 11 04:04:29 1999
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At 09:35 AM 3/2/99 -0600, you wrote:
>***{For those who are worried about the threat of "global warming," I offer
>the following equally real danger. Happy fretting! --Mitchell Jones}***
>
>>From the WEEKLY WORLD NEWS, May 24, 1994
>
>MOSCOW -- Doctors are blaming a rare electrical imbalance in the brain for
>the bizarre death of a chess player whose head literally exploded in the
>middle of a championship game!
>
>No one else was hurt in the fatal explosion but four players and three
>officials at the Moscow Candidate Masters' Chess Championships were sprayed
>with blood and brain matter when Nikolai Titov's head suddenly blew apart.
>Experts say he suffered from a condition called Hyper-Cerebral Electrosis
>or HCE.
>
>"He was deep in concentration with his eyes focused on the board," says
>Titov's opponent, Vladimir Dobrynin. "All of a sudden his hands flew to his
>temples and he screamed in pain. Everyone looked up from their games,
>startled by the noise. Then, as if someone had put a bomb in his cranium,
>his head popped like a firecracker."
>
>Incredibly, Titiov's is not the first case in which a person's head has
>spontaneously exploded. Five people are known to have died of HCE in the
>last 25 years.

(snip)

Five in the last 25 years? Moscow? Who are you trying to kid? This was
probably some kind of scalar wave device. The thing is, I doubt that an
exploded head will completely obliterate the life force energy field. All
this might end up doing is eliminate the possibility of seeing it coming
back. Is the following quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H.
Cater true I wonder (p342-p343)?

_______________________________________________________________________________

  The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect
our country's interests.  Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men
trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the
powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages.  Every
individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come
under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC,
whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the
person to be terminated.  If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it.  In this
manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths.
  Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since
he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone
else for many years.  When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be
introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will
accompany the one who is to introduce it.  This power will far transcend
that of any man-made organization that would oppose it.  It is needless to
state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the
author.  A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great
mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA.  Every hit man
sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident".
It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once
was and all of its best hit men are long gone.  Prior to Reagan's
inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big
trouble.  One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?).
The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of
the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the
patient".  It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the
run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men.
  A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely
to be highly unstable emotionally.  The above mentioned former associate of the
author had an experience that confirmed this.  An apartment just above one in
which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. 
As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their
scrutiny is thoroughly bugged.  For the more "important" cases there is a
direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters.  Unknown to the CIA
at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection.  One
evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the
fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be
monitoring.  His reaction was complete panic. He started to call
headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began
sobbing.  The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters.
This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by
CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated.
Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time.
_______________________________________________________________________________

The NOVA show sited evidence of the rates of climate change that occurred in
the past from analysis of icecores drilled from the Greenland glacial cap.
There is proof that climate changes to, and from, ice age conditions can
occur in 20 to 50 years or, as little as 1 to 2 years. There is suggestion
that a average global temperatures must stay below a threshold temperature.
Once the avererage global temperature is exceeded, rapid climate changes
occur and restabilize at a drastically different level. I subscribe to the
Viktor Schauberger scenario as follows:

1. Global warming from energy production related CO2 generation greatly
increases the water vapor content in the atmosphere. Deforestation of large
land tracts also cause increased atmospheric water vapor because the ground
is heated from exposure to the sun. This in turn evaporates water from the
ground preventing the natural water cycle from occurring. (Do rain and snow
patterns lately suggest anything to you?)

2. Increased atmospheric water vapor causes it's envelope to extend further
out into the exosphere. Ultraviolet light dissociates the water molecule
into a hydrogen and oxygen monatoms. The gravitational pull at the exosphere
level is too weak to keep the hydrogen atom from floating out into space.
Thus the water is lost forever.

3. At a certain point, atmospheric water vapor levels are too low to
insulate the atmosphere. Massive heatloss results and an ice age begins.


Do you have any comments on the following 'What's New' items from
physicsweb.org Mr. Jones?

________________________________________________________________________________

Antarctic glaciers feel the heat

                 [Friday July 24] The Pine Island Glacier in West
                 Antarctica is shrinking at a startling rate according to
                 satellite observations. And the "hinge-point" of the
                 glacier is retreating at 1.2 km per year according to
                 Eric Rignot of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in
                 California. Geophysicists believe that the glacier is
                 theoretically unstable and that the retreat could
                 become irreversible. Many believe that such an event
                 would be strong evidence for climatic change. Rignot
                 cautions that the retreat he has observed might be a
                 short-lived phenomenon, but adds it could still have
                 implications for the stability of ice-sheets along the
                 entire Antarctic coastline (Science 281 549).

                 Rignot used radar data taken between 1992
                 and 1996 by two European satellites, ERS-1
                 and ERS-2, to generate interference patterns
                 that are sensitive to small vertical
                 movements. These patterns provide information on the
                 velocity of the ice - how fast it is creeping towards the bay
                 - and the hinge point - the position on the glacier at which
                 ice moves from resting on the bay bed to ice floating on the
                 water. Recent measurements have suggested that the Pine
                 Island glacier is melting at a much faster rate than other
                 large ice shelves in the Antarctic. Researchers believed this
                 was being caused by an influx of warm water from the
                 Southern Pacific Ocean.

                           Rignot's latest work concludes that 76 ± 2
                           km3 of ice is being discharged into the bay
                           each year, while only 71 ± 7 km3 is
                 replenished from the Antarctic interior - which indicates
                 that the glacier is shrinking at a startling rate. If this data
                 does herald the start of collapse for the Antarctic ice sheet,
                 water levels could rise by more than 5 m within a couple of
                 centuries.




Global warming confirmed from
                 space

                 [Friday August 14] Differences in the temperature of
                 the earth's atmosphere as measured by satellites and
                 ground-based instruments have puzzled scientists for
                 years, and caused some politicians to doubt the reality
                 of global warming. Now, however, calculations by
                 Frank Wentz and Matthias Schabel of Remote Sensing
                 Systems in California have shown that small decays in
                 the orbit of satellites may have caused the discrepancy
                 (Nature 394 661).

                 Previously satellite measurements have
                 suggested that the atmosphere was
                 cooling at 0.05 Kelvin per decade, while
                 ground-based instruments showed an
                 increase of 0.13 Kelvin per decade. However, as polar
                 satellites orbit the Earth, they suffer atmospheric drag. The
                 thickness and height of the Earth's atmosphere is dependent
                 on the sun's solar activity. When solar activity is at a
                 maximum, ultraviolet rays from the sun heat the upper
                 atmosphere. This causes the atmosphere to expand
                 outwards, which increases the drag experienced by
                 satellites. Wentz and Schabel calculated that this caused the
                 orbits of polar satellites operated by the National Oceanic
                 and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) in the US to
                 decay by 1.2 km per year over a 17 year period.

                 They also discovered that the Microwave Sounding Unit
                 (MSU) used to measure the troposphere temperature
                 profile is very sensitive to height fluctuations. By
                 developing a correction factor for the instrument, they were
                 able to re-evaluate the satellite data. They found that the
                 instrument now measured a temperature rise of 0.07 Kelvin
                 per decade instead of the previously reported fall. This new
                 figure is similar to results predicted by computer climate
                 models and explains why the satellites had seen increased
                 cooling in the troposphere during periods of increased solar
                 activity in 1979-83 and 1989-92. 




Humans are the cause of climate
                 change

                 [Thursday November 26] The controversy over the
                 relative contributions of greenhouse gas emissions and
                 solar activity to global warming appears to have been
                 resolved. Tom Wigley, Richard Smith and Benjamin
                 Santer in the US contrasted global meteorological
                 temperature data gathered over the past 115 years with
                 results from two leading computer models. They found
                 that the best fit to the data occurred when this
                 century's 0.6 C global temperature rise is assumed to
                 have been caused mainly by mankind's output of
                 greenhouse gases (Science 282 1676).

                 The team looked in particular for 'lag time' effects in the
                 data. For example, the eruption of Mt Pinatubo in the
                 Philippines in 1991 lowered the global temperature by 0.3
                 C in the following year as fine aerosols of volcanic ash and
                 sulphuric acid caused a cooling effect. However, the team
                 believes that volcanic eruptions have a short lived effect on
                 the long-term temperature. They therefore looked at two
                 possible variables that could adjust climate - greenhouse
                 gases and changes in the sun's output.

                 Wigley and colleagues ran the two independent computer
                 models four times, each time with a different set of
                 parameters. In the first data set, they created a world in
                 which greenhouse gases remained constant over 100 years
                 and changes in solar output do not affect the climate. In the
                 second set they assumed that the Earth's climate can be
                 affected by solar output - called solar forcing - but
                 greenhouse gases remain constant. The third set had no
                 solar output, but greenhouse gases rise over time. Finally
                 the fourth set had a mixture of both solar forcing and rising
                 levels of greenhouse gases.

                 They first found that there was wide discrepancies between
                 the output of both computer models and the experimental
                 data in the first data set. This indicated that some
                 mechanism was increasing the global temperature this
                 century. Then they found that if solar heating was solely
                 responsible for climate change, the Earth's climate would
                 have to be six times more sensitive to solar heating than
                 realistic estimates suggest. Wigley, Smith and Santer
                 concluded that unlike a paper published in Physical Review
                 Letters this week (see CERN plans global-warming
                 experiment), the only model that matched both simulation
                 and experimental data sets was the one containing a strong
                 greenhouse gas effect and a small amount of solar heating.

                 According to Wigley: "These results provide another
                 important piece in the jigsaw puzzle of climate change,
                 strengthening yet further our confidence that there has been
                 a discernible human influence on climate. Furthermore,
                 they provide additional evidence that the models used to
                 make projections of future climate change are realistic."
________________________________________________________________________________


By coincidence, right after the NOVA show was FRONTLINE. The topic was
America's war on marijuana. What drew my attention was the statement of an
officer who said that he was troubled because those he arrested for
marijuana spent far and away, much greater time in jail than murderers and
rapists. He shrugged that off saying that he only caught them, and that he
doesn't make the law. I wonder when God eventually asks him why did he do it
when he knew it was wrong, will God accept that answer?

At any rate, those supposedly suppressing advanced technology which might
stop or reverse the global warming process probably believe a similar idea
to justify their actions in the face of growing climate change evidence and
an increasing feeling of wrong doing in their gut. They have the upper hand,
and are actively making a moral choice by taking such a course of action.
The question is, if they are wrong, and the sh*t really hits the fan by the
climate triggering to a different level, should these people be held
accountable for their actions of ultimate sin by those who survive? Should
those who are 'pulled in' for working on this technology make do the best
they can and perhaps inform fellow inmates of proven violent behavior
patterns (they're the ones who'll get out first) the possible truth about
suppressed technology which could save our world. I'm not afraid of dying.
Death would relieve stress and pressure from my obligations and
responsibilites. Abilities in higher dimensions may even prove interesting.
The important thing to me is that I would be able to say to God that I tried
my 100% very best. One thing's for certain though, I would be INCREDIBLY
PISSED OFF at those responsible! Jumpin' Jehovah!


Regards;
Dennis

________________________________________________________________

Starfire
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html

Unified Field Art
http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG

Tall Ships
http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html

Concentric Tori
http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG

Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun!
http://www.artbellchatclub.com
________________________________________

When I am working on a problem,
I never think about beauty.
I only think of how to solve the problem.
But when I have finished,
if the solution is not beautiful,
I know it is wrong.

-R. Buckminster Fuller-
________________________________________

'G' defines 'objective art':

"In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in
it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows
and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one
impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of
course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical
certainty, produce one and the same impression.

"At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on
people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive
from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art.

- p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky -
______________________________________________________________________________

"Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the
term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral
and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the
ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in
the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or
unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having
in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the
natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to
to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot
perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower
tones; and must be part of an organized whole."

- p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes -
______________________________________________________________________________



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 11 06:48:53 1999
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Rich,

Thanks for alerting Vortex-L to Ibison's review of Mills' book.  Do you recall
which edition of Mills' book it was?   (The latest edition is January 1999 and
runs to over 1,000 pages of theory, experiment, observation, and sample
analysis.)

Your summary of Ibison's review in your post Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 10:11:48
-0700 said, "Ibison points out simple inconsistencies and errors in the
starting mathematics, and concludes that the whole book is in error."

It sounds as if Ibison fell into a simple inconsistency and error of logic
himself:  he assumed that just because he'd found what he thought were
mathematical errors at the beginning of Mills' theoretical argument, therefore
the experiments, the experimental observations, and the astrophysical
observations were all wrong.  If Ibison reviewed the 1999 edition, then,
judging by what you said, he also inferred from alleged mathematical errors at
the beginning of the theory that the physical end products of BLP's cells
didn't exist.

Nevertheless, I look forward to reading Ibison's review.

You wrote , re NASA's replication of excess heat from a BLP electrolytic cell:

"
This apparently refers to the report by Niedra et al on a Ni cathode

with light water electrolytic cell.   The report itself admits that

Faraday recombination could account for the small energy excess.  No

other team has proved excess heat with Ni cathodes with light water.

BlackLight Power itself has long ago abandoned their electrolytic cells

for hot gas cells.  NASA also has not contined this line of research.

Mitchell Swartz [ mica world.std.com ] still maintains that his nickel

and light water cells had generated excess heat, but I am not aware of

any independent replications."

Niedra, et al., said that they couldn't exclude recombination as an
explanation, but that they didn't think it likely.  They suggested further
research.   As far as I know, you're right that NASA didn't agree to further
research.  NASA's mistake. 

More specifically, Niedra, et al., said  (p. 6 col. 2) that their data was
"marginally" consistent with recombination as the explanation.  But they also
pointed out (p. 7 col. 2) that invoking recombination as the explanation would
require very high recombination in the cell for their best runs.  They said
(p. 7 col. 2) that one would have to assume a Faradaic efficiency of almost
zero (recombination rate of almost 100%) in order to account for the excess
heat at 5 A of cell current.  The 5 A run produced their best power gain, 1.68
(see Table I).  I think that invoking a recombination rate of almost 100% is a
farfetch, to put it mildly.

Many other researchers have shown excess heat with Ni cathodes in light water.
To name a few, Shaubach & Gernert of Thermacore have shown it, Noninski has
shown it, Notoya has shown it, Robert Bush has shown it, and Mitchell Swartz
has shown it.

I have just read Mitchell Swartz's fine 1997 paper in FUSION TECHNOLOGY (Vol.
31, January 1997, pp. 63-74).  He showed excess heat beyond recombination with
a closed system that produced a power gain of 1.44 ± 0.58 for when Ni wire was
used for both cathode and anode, and a power gain of 2.27 ± 1.02 when an Ni
spiral cathode was used with a Pt foil anode.  Unfortunately, the paper didn't
say what the light water electrolyte was.  If it weren't for that, I'd say
that Swartz's work was strong independent confirmation of Mills' electrolytic
work.  (Maybe Mitchell didn't want to confirm Mills.)

Have fun at the SSE meeting in June.

Tom Stolper


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Subject: Re: The "Neutrino Gas" and the Casimer Force?
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:14:30 -0700
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To: Vortex

Could it be that when the two plates get to a spacing where the 56 angstrom
diameter Neutrinos (Radius = kq^2/0.5 ev)between them are forced out by the
Neutrino Gas pressure on the exterior you get the Casimir Force?

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 11 07:36:40 1999
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Subject: progress in Ni-light water electrolysis? 
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March 11, 1999      Hello Vorts and Tom Stolper,    I am very pleased to read
Tom's detailed and courteous post.   I don't know which edition of the Mills opus
Ibison reviewed, but you can post him directly.   I haven't seen the report by
Shaubach & Gernert of Thermacore -- where can I find it?   As far as I know, none
of the researchers on Ni and light water electrolysis are claiming that the
electrode materials are critical and special, except for CETI this year, as Jed
Rothwell has explained that their original Ni plated beads, which seemed to give
remarkably high power outputs in 1995, have been used up, and can no longer be
replicated.   But this explanation doesn't cover the failure of independent labs,
such as Pacific Northwest Lab, to replicate remediation and excess power with CETI
beads of different composition entirely.  So, if the cells are so simple and
produce high levels of anomalous heat, where are the profusion of independent
replications, and the marketing of guaranteed kits?    Swartz's January, 1997
power gains have huge claimed errors, enough to vitiate the claims.  Two years
later, where is his progress?    See you at SSE in June,   Rich Murray



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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 11 07:51:05 1999
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Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:38:51 -0500 (EST)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Bockris 
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	Dear Vo,

	I do not know if I spelled the name right.  Bockris.

	I am given to understand he may be working in the CF field.  If 
so can you point me to any references I might read or find... say on www 
... 

	AND:

	If you know of his work can you give me the '2 cent' run down and 
if you feel the work ... whatever it is ... is valid?
	Thanks,

		Regards,


			John Schnurer

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 11 10:22:45 1999
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At 08:29 AM 3/11/99 -0700, Richard T. Murray wrote:
>March 11, 1999      Hello Vorts and Tom Stolper,    I am very pleased to read
>Tom's detailed and courteous post.   I don't know which edition of the
Mills opus
>Ibison reviewed, but you can post him directly. 

  What is the exact basis of the claims.  I looked at the URL 
and found nothing.  


>  Swartz's January, 1997
>power gains have huge claimed errors, enough to vitiate the claims.  

   Nonsense.  

     Mitchell Swartz


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 11 13:11:42 1999
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Subject: Message from Mel Miles
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Mel Miles asked me to post the following message here. - JR

Melvin H. Miles, Ph.D.
Chemistry and Materials Branch
Research and Technology Division
Code 4T4220D
Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division
China Lake, CA 93555-6100 USA
Phone: 760-371-1766 (home)
Phone: 760-939-1652 (work)
Fax:  760-939-1617 (work)
e-mail: milesmh navair.navy.mil (work)
e-mail: melmiles ridgecrest.ca.us (home)



March 7, 1999


Daily News
Public Forum
P.O. Box 4200
Woodland Hills, CA 91365-4200

Dear Public Forum:

I read with interest your recent article regarding Professor Nathan Lewis
and his quest for an artificial nose (Daily News, L.A. Life Section, pp.
3-4, March 1, 1999).

Regarding the first paragraph about Professor Lewis' background, I strongly
object to your statement that "A decade ago, he led a team that handily
debunked the myth of cold fusion".  The actual facts are that cold fusion
research continues, and that I and others handily debunked his research
results on this topic (see for example the Journal of Physical Chemistry,
Vol. 98, pp. 1948-1952, 1994).  Professor Lewis has never replied to the
various errors that I and others exposed about his research and to the fact
that his results actually support the cold fusion claims of excess heat.
The Seventh International Conference on cold fusion was held April 19-24,
1998 in Vancouver, Canada, the Intersociety Energy Conversion Engineering
Conference held August 2-6, 1998 in Colorado Springs contained a cold fusion
session, and the prestigious American Physical Society meeting in Atlanta
will have a session relating to cold fusion on Friday, March 26, 1999.  The
web location for the abstracts of the session in Atlanta is the following:

http://www.aps.org/meet/CENT99/BAPS/abs/S9500.html

Cold fusion is obviously not a debunked science as claimed in your article,
but progress is slow since we do not yet understand this new phenomena.



As a taxpayer, I hope Professor Lewis' government funded work on an
artificial nose is a vast improvement over his flawed escapade into cold
fusion.

Sincerely,



Dr. Melvin H. Miles
NAWCWPNS Fellow

Home address:  
807 Mamie Avenue
Ridgecrest, CA 93555

Daytime Telephone number:
760-939-1652

copies:
Usha Lee McFarling, Knight Ridder Newspapers
Professor Nathan Lewis, California Institute of Technology
Professor Martin Fleischmann, U.K.
Dr. Eugene Mallove, Editor, Infinite Energy
Professor Mostafa A. El-Sayed, Editor, Journal of Physical Chemistry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 11 13:11:47 1999
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Subject: Other APS CF papers
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I mentioned that the APS will have a session devoted to cold fusion on
March 26,  Friday afternoon, 14:00, Room 365W, GWCC. In addition, George
Miley, Heinrich Hora and others will be presenting CF-related papers in
other sessions and poster sessions:

Session FB04 - Heavy Ions I: Exotic Masses and Near-Coulomb Energy Processes. 
ORAL session, Monday afternoon, March 22 
Room 204E, GWCC 

[FB04.04] Proton Reactions in Metals with Boltzmann
Distribution similar to Nuclear Astrophysics

Heinrich Hora (Department of Theoretical Physics University of New South
Wales), George Miley (Low Energy Nuclear Reaction Lab University of
Illinois Urbana), Jak Kelly (Department of Applied Physics, University of
Sydney), Frederick Osman, Reynaldo Castillo (Department of Physics
University of Western Sydney Macarthur)

Session FB04 - Heavy Ions I: Exotic Masses and Near-Coulomb Energy Processes. 
ORAL session, Monday afternoon, March 22 
Room 204E, GWCC 

[FB04.05] Proton-Metal Reactions in Thin Films

George Miley, Giovanna Salvaggi, Antonio Tate (Low Energy Nuclear Reaction
Lab University of Illinois Urbana), Heinrich Hora (Department of
Theoretical Physics University of New South Wales)

Session RP01 - Poster Session VI. 
POSTER session, Wednesday afternoon, March 24 
Exhibit Hall, GWCC 

[RP01.193] Coherent Lattice Accelerator Inter-ionic Reactions Enhancer

Giovanna Selvaggi (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions Lab, University of
Illinois, Urbana, IL 61801, USA), Vittorio Violante (ENEA, Divisione
Fusione, Centro Ricerche Frascati, 00044 Frascati, Italy), George Miley
(Low Energy Nuclear Reactions Lab, University of Illinois, Urbana, IL
61801, USA)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 11 15:03:23 1999
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Jed Rothwell wrote:

> I mentioned that the APS will have a session devoted to cold fusion on
> March 26,  Friday afternoon, 14:00, Room 365W, GWCC. In addition, George
> Miley, Heinrich Hora and others will be presenting CF-related papers in
> other sessions and poster sessions:

<snip>

Simultaneously, there is an 11 day "Physics Festival" going on city-wide in
Atlanta from March 16th through the 26th.  For schedules and venues see:

http://www.physicsfestival.com/

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 11 15:15:05 1999
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	Must be a pony in there ?

	What is the joke?

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Fred,

Can you tell us where you got this reference data and what range of heating
value data can be expected for propane and diesel, please?

> 
>                   Combustion Data
> 
> The flame temperatures for H2, CH4, and Propane
> ranges from 3,500 to 4,000 Deg F at 100% theoretical air. With the Plasma
> Arc "assist" the temperature could approach 15,000 F or so.
> 
> Fuel  LHV Btu/Lb #air/#fuel  CO2   H2O    N2
> 
> H2      51,600      34.2     0.0   8.94  26.28
> 
> CH4     21,520      17.2     2.75  2.48  13.22
> 
> C3H8    19,944      15.65    3.00  1.64  12.02
> 


Ed Wall

New Energy Research Laboratory
Cold Fusion Technology, Inc., P.O. Box 2816, Concord, NH 03302-2816
voice: (603) 226-4822    fax: (603) 224-5975    
website: www.infinite-energy.com

"I believe it is better to learn what is probable about important matters
than to be certain about trival ones."
Ian Stevenson

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Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 18:36:13 -0500 (EST)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Dieter Britz
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	Dear Vo.,

	Looking to contact Dieter Britz.... and I hope I did not mess up 
the spelling!

	Apologies in advance, if I did,

	Regards,

				John

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Sorry. I'm having some troubles posting here...

K.

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-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Wall <ewall infinite-energy.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Thursday, March 11, 1999 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: Catalytic or Plasma Combustor?

Hi Ed. The Combustion Data is from:

Marks' Standard Handbook For Mechanical Engineers, Tenth Edition.1800 pages,
McGraw-Hill, 1996.

About $125.00, but well worth it for R&D work. The older issues are just as
good and possibly a lot cheaper.

The Plasma Temperatures are taken from here and various physics and Plasma
Cutter or Torch data.

Best,    Fred


>Fred,
>
>Can you tell us where you got this reference data and what range of heating
>value data can be expected for propane and diesel, please?
>
>>
>>                   Combustion Data
>>
>> The flame temperatures for H2, CH4, and Propane
>> ranges from 3,500 to 4,000 Deg F at 100% theoretical air. With the Plasma
>> Arc "assist" the temperature could approach 15,000 F or so.
>>
>> Fuel  LHV Btu/Lb #air/#fuel  CO2   H2O    N2
>>
>> H2      51,600      34.2     0.0   8.94  26.28
>>
>> CH4     21,520      17.2     2.75  2.48  13.22
>>
>> C3H8    19,944      15.65    3.00  1.64  12.02
>>
>
>
>Ed Wall
>
>New Energy Research Laboratory
>Cold Fusion Technology, Inc., P.O. Box 2816, Concord, NH 03302-2816
>voice: (603) 226-4822    fax: (603) 224-5975
>website: www.infinite-energy.com
>
>"I believe it is better to learn what is probable about important matters
>than to be certain about trival ones."
>Ian Stevenson
>
>


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 11 18:57:48 1999
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Britz said, and Murray forwarded:

<snip>

>It might be worse than just an error. As I reported here a few weeks
>ago, there is a problem. The Blacklight web site claims that a number
>of labs are doing replications of the Mills work. These are all named,
>and among them is "Virgina Tech", which I was informed means VPI
>(Virginia Polytechnical Institute). This is claimed to be doing Raman
>spectroscopy for Mills. I checked at that place and found a Raman
>researcher
>there, who also knows all the others (I think there were four in all).
>None
>of them is doing any checking for Mills, this is news to all of them.
>
>This seems to throw doubt on Mills' claims. He has not commented so far.
>
>-- Dieter Britz alias db kemi.aau.dk;  http://www.kemi.aau.dk/~db


What is missing from this is a careful reading of the BLP web postings,
which clearly states that the tests at "Virginia Tech" were
******blind****** tests in which the testers were not told of the sponsor.

So the denials by Britz's contacts do not necessarily falsify BLP's
assertion that the cited tests were done there. Britz is often very careful
in his statements, but he should have been more careful this time.

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 11 18:57:50 1999
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John,

> Must be a pony in there ?
>
> What is the joke?


You can embellish it all you want, but the essence is this. It's a
psychology lab with a room in which a one-way mirror is placed. The floor is
covered with manure to a significant depth. Subject A is placed in the room,
and he just sits down a cries. Subject B is placed in the room, and he
immediately begins to dig about in the manure with great enthusiasm. The
puzzled researchers ask him about his behavior. He says "I figured with all
that s----, there must be a pony in there someplace".

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Subject: Re: Britz: Mills research at "Virginia Tech"? 3.10.99
  Resent-Date:   Thu, 11 Mar 1999 18:54:55 -0800
 Resent-From:    vortex-l eskimo.com
        Date:          Thu, 11 Mar 1999 21:06:58 -0500
        From:          "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
    Reply-To:        vortex-l eskimo.com
          To:           <vortex-l eskimo.com>

Britz said, and Murray forwarded:

<snip>

>It might be worse than just an error. As I reported here a few weeks
>ago, there is a problem. The Blacklight web site claims that a number
>of labs are doing replications of the Mills work. These are all named,
>and among them is "Virgina Tech", which I was informed means VPI
>(Virginia Polytechnical Institute). This is claimed to be doing Raman
>spectroscopy for Mills. I checked at that place and found a Raman
>researcher
>there, who also knows all the others (I think there were four in all).
>None
>of them is doing any checking for Mills, this is news to all of them.
>
>This seems to throw doubt on Mills' claims. He has not commented so
far.
>
>-- Dieter Britz alias db kemi.aau.dk;  http://www.kemi.aau.dk/~db


What is missing from this is a careful reading of the BLP web postings,
which clearly states that the tests at "Virginia Tech" were
******blind****** tests in which the testers were not told of the
sponsor.

So the denials by Britz's contacts do not necessarily falsify BLP's
assertion that the cited tests were done there. Britz is often very
careful
in his statements, but he should have been more careful this time.

Mike Carrell


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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 11 23:16:39 1999
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Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:12:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Schaffer <schaffermj yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:  Ibison: very critical review of R.L.Mills opus in JSE
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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Tom Stolper wrote:

>Niedra, et al., said that they couldn't exclude recombination as an
>explanation, but that they didn't think it likely.  They suggested
further
>research.  As far as I know, you're right that NASA didn't agree to
further
>research.  NASA's mistake. 
> 
>More specifically, Niedra, et al., said  (p. 6 col. 2) that their
data was
>"marginally" consistent with recombination as the explanation.  But
they also
>pointed out (p. 7 col. 2) that invoking recombination as the
explanation would
>require very high recombination in the cell for their best runs. 
They said
>(p. 7 col. 2) that one would have to assume a Faradaic efficiency of
almost
>zero (recombination rate of almost 100%) in order to account for the
excess
> heat at 5 A of cell current.  The 5 A run produced their best power
gain, 1.68
>(see Table I).  I think that invoking a recombination rate of almost
100% is a
>farfetch, to put it mildly.

Actually, it is not farfetched. The cathode had a very large surface
area. Consequently, the current density was very low, about 60
microA/cm^2 or so (5 A/80,000 cm^2). Recombination can indeed occur at
a rate equivalent to this current density. The more common heavy water
electrolytic cold fusion cells run about 1000 times greater current
density, and for them recombinaiton is normally not a large effect
(though it should always be measured, to verify!). Furthermore, Niedra
et al.'s plot of excess power vs current can be matched very nicely by
assuming no excess heat and a typical recombination rate. The
Hydrocatalysis cell included no means to measure recombination
directly. Taking both the evidence and the experimental method into
account, Niedra's experiment neither proves nor disproves excess heat.
If it is a true replication of Hydrocatalysis experiments, then those
experiments neither prove nor disprove excess heat, either.
==
Michael J. Schaffer


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Hi

I HATE people who do this, but I
need to cut back on the amount of
list server stuff I get and want to 
cancel this one. I have got details 
on the others I subscribe to, but 
not this: could someone either
cancel my subscription or send
me the address to send it to.

If it's the latter please email off
list to me at
Jeremy_Condliffe compuserve.com

Sorry and thanks

Jeremy
Congleton,
Cheshire UK

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Subject: Re: test
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Keith -

>Sorry. I'm having some troubles posting here...
>
>K.

Read you 5 x 5.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 12 05:33:22 1999
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From: Tstolper aol.com
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Rich,

In your post Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:29:10 -0700, you asked, "I haven't seen
the report by
Shaubach & Gernert of Thermacore -- where can I find it?"

Shaubach reported on the Thermacore cell on pages 110-112 of the following
paper:

Randell L. Mills, William R. Good, Robert M. Shaubach
"Dihydrino Molecule Identification"
FUSION TECHNOLOGY, Vol. 25 (January 1994), pp. 103-119.

Gernert wasn't listed as a co-author, but I was told years ago that he worked
for Thermacore.

For those who want Mills' last word in a peer-reviewed publication on the
subject of Ni/H2O/K2CO3 electrolysis, which shows excess heat far beyond
recombination, see pp. 1698-1701 of the following:

Randell L. Mills, William R. Good
"Fractional Quantum Levels of Hydrogen"
FUSION TECHNOLOGY, Vol. 28 (November 1995), pp. 1697-1719

Mills himself now seems to consider his original article on the subject (Mills
& Kneizys 1991), which is the one most often cited, to have been superceded by
his later articles.  At any rate, he didn't cite the 1991 article in his 1998
note to FUSION TECHNOLOGY re Dufour's Hydrex concept.  Mills only cited his
1994 and 1995 articles, above, I guess because they showed a lot of progress
over the results presented in the 1991 article.

Mills has since progressed to a better technology, i.e., gas-phase cells.
Judging by the material on the BLP website, he concluded that gas-phase cells
held more promise for eventual commercialization.

Tom Stolper

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In message Date:  Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:48:52 +0100, apparently to
sci.physics.fusion (forwarded by Rich Murray to Vortex-L in Rich's message
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:59:59 -0700), Dieter Britz wrote

"The Blacklight web site claims that a number
of labs are doing replications of the Mills work. These are all named,and
among them is "Virgina Tech", which I was informed means VPI
(Virginia Polytechnical Institute). This is claimed to be doing Raman
spectroscopy for Mills. I checked at that place and found a Raman
researcher there, who also knows all the others (I think there were four in
all).
None of them is doing any checking for Mills, this is news to all of them."

Dieter, did you speak with all of them yourself, or just the one Raman
researcher?

Did you check any of the other places named on the BLP website?

Tom Stolper

P.S.  Mike Carrell posted the following here on Vortex-L last night:
"What is missing from this is a careful reading of the BLP web postings,

which clearly states that the tests at "Virginia Tech" were

******blind****** tests in which the testers were not told of the sponsor."



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 12 05:41:03 1999
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Send a null message to vortex-l-request eskimo.com with "unsubscribe" in
the subject (without quotes).

Terry

Jeremy Condliffe wrote:

> Hi
>
> I HATE people who do this, but I
> need to cut back on the amount of
> list server stuff I get and want to
> cancel this one. I have got details
> on the others I subscribe to, but
> not this: could someone either
> cancel my subscription or send
> me the address to send it to.
>
> If it's the latter please email off
> list to me at
> Jeremy_Condliffe compuserve.com
>
> Sorry and thanks
>
> Jeremy
> Congleton,
> Cheshire UK

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 12 11:35:47 1999
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March 12, 1999

Vortex,
I posted this last night but came back as an unscribed
posting. So having subscribed again, I am posting this less
some addressees and expanded a little.

repost:
 
Jed,
 
Is IE planning to video tape the March 26th and other CF
related
presentations either for archival or sale purposes? I figure
you will be
reporting on it for IE since it is in your bailiwick.
I will be attending the conference just for that one hour
allotment for
the various CF reports. Second year that APS gave some space
for CF.
 
After Hokkaido's ICCF-6, the Vancouver's ICCF-7, the 1998
APS L.A.
Conference, activities not much reported on the Vortex has
gone foward.
These efforts have involved Arata DS cathode replication
efforts with
Russ George actively involved in Japan and consequent
activity at SRI with the Arata cathodes; the sonofusion
replication efforts by Arata deriving out of Stringham and
George's efforts, reports, and a Mark 5 sonofusion unit; and
successful replication of Case's CF report from catalytic
beads.
Presumably, the results of these activities will be reported
on at the
APS Centinnial Conference Atlanta. It certainly looks that
way from the Abstracts at APS  on-line. Most, most curious
will be how the credits of authorships of the results will
be properly allocated by the presentarions. Of what I have
heard of how the credits are being claimed, it brings to
mind the saying: "All is Fair in Love and War", to be
modified to "All is Fair in Love and War and the pursuit of
Science".
 
See you at Atlanta?
 
-AK-

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 13 00:14:38 1999
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Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:20:23 +0200
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From: "JEAN DELAGARDE" <jlagarde cyberaccess.fr>
Subject: Re:  progress in Ni-light water electrolysis?
Resent-Message-ID: <"nimar.0.cY.HuXws" mx1>
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Tom Stolper wrote :

>Randell L. Mills, William R. Good
>"Fractional Quantum Levels of Hydrogen"
>FUSION TECHNOLOGY, Vol. 28 (November 1995), pp. 1697-1719

>Mills himself now seems to consider his original article on the subject (Mills
>& Kneizys 1991), which is the one most often cited, to have been superceded by
>his later articles.  At any rate, he didn't cite the 1991 article in his 1998
>note to FUSION TECHNOLOGY re Dufour's Hydrex concept.  Mills only cited his
>1994 and 1995 articles, above, I guess because they showed a lot of progress
>over the results presented in the 1991 article.

I have the original 1995 article by Mills and Good but I never heard of a
note to FUSION TECHNOLOGY re Dufour's Hydrex concept. For
everyone'benefit,could Tom Stolper kindly sum up this note and give its
exact reference ?

                                        Jean de Lagarde


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 13 02:05:39 1999
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To: Vortex

A very comprehensive book on the why and how of Electron-Ion interaction and
the energies involved is Authored by William W. Porterfield:

Concepts of Chemistry; W.W. Norton Company,NY. 1972. Easy to follow and
makes for a good self-teaching text.

                      Atom & (Energy ev)

   Property         H&D   Li    Na    K    Cs

Ionization Pot. I   13.6  5.4  5.14  4.34  3.9

Ionization Pot. II  ----  75.6 47.3  31.8  32.5

Electronegativity   2.20  0.98 0.93  0.82  0.7

Electron Affinity** 0.75  0.62 0.55  0.50  0.47

Covalent Radius (A) 0.32  1.23 1.54  2.03  2.35

** Electron affinity is the amount of energy Released when a NEUTRAL ATOM
ADDS An Electron.

These numbers point to the Hydrogen-Potassium
Electron Exchange Interaction as well as the possibility of the larger
radius Potassium "shrinking" a Neutrino of Radius R = kq^2/0.5 ev while
giving it energy E/0.5 ev, thus a relativistic mass Mrel = Mo[(E/0.5)+1] and
then it is picked up by a Proton or Neutral H atom to form the
Hydrino/Quasineutron.

There has to be either a high enough temperature to dissociate the H2 or D2
and K2 diatomic molecules to H, D, or K, or there has to be a "free radical"
chemical chain reaction  occurring to form them.

This should also occur in the Electrolysis Cells,but there has to be
Neutrinos Present to effect the "Gammaless,Aneutronic", Cold Fusion
Reactions and OU Heat.

If the "sterile radius" of the Neutrinos is 28 Angstroms, it would be easy
for them to be left out of the reactions, depending on the history of the
liquids and gases used in the experiments.

Regards,   Frederick



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In his post Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:12:10 -0800 (PST), Michael Schaffer
wrote that the current density in the Theramacore-type cell reported in
Niedra, et al., 1996 was so low that the recombination rate could have been
close to 100% during their 5 A run.

Shaubach reported on a similar Thermacore cell, with even more nickel wire as
the cathode, on pages 110-116 of the following article:

Randell L. Mills, William R. Good, Robert M. Shaubach
"Dihydrino Molecule Identification"
FUSION TECHNOLOGY, Vol. 25 (January 1994), pp. 103-119.

Thermacore measured recombination and found it to be negligible (see p. 110
col. 1 and Table III on p. 113).  I think it's a farfetch to assume that
recombination would have jumped to close to 100% in Niedra's cell.

Schaffer also wrote: "...Niedra's experiment neither proves nor disproves
excess heat.
If it is a true replication of Hydrocatalysis experiments, then those
experiments neither prove nor disprove excess heat, either."

Niedra's team experimented with a cell like the one at Thermacore but not an
exact duplicate.  The chief difference, as far as I can see, was that
Thermacore's cell had a bigger cathode, which may be why Thermacore got more
excess heat, and why Thermacore got excess heat well beyond even 100%
recombination.  The experiments at HydroCatalysis Power (now BlackLight Power)
used a cell of a different construction that produced excess heat far beyond
recombination:  see pp. 1698-1701 of Randell L. Mills & William R. Good,
"Fractional Quantum Energy Levels of Hydrogen," FUSION TECHNOLOGY, Vol. 28
(November 1995), pp. 1697-1719.  

Together, it seems to me that the three reports provide strong evidence of an
important phenomenon worth further research.

Michael, have you read the Mills, Good & Shaubach 1994 article and the Mills &
Good 1995 article?

Tom Stolper

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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
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Subject: More than one way ..Re: Atom-Electrons Interaction and Possible Neutrino Coupling
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	Dear Fred and Vo.,

	Many times I am guilty of looking at a puzzle only one way... 
this is when I hope to see an example of someone ELSE with the smae 
blindness... then I can be jogged back to or toward fuller sight....


	See note, flagged, below, please. 

On Sat, 13 Mar 1999, Frederick J Sparber wrote:

> To: Vortex
> 
> A very comprehensive book on the why and how of Electron-Ion interaction and
> the energies involved is Authored by William W. Porterfield:
> 
> Concepts of Chemistry; W.W. Norton Company,NY. 1972. Easy to follow and
> makes for a good self-teaching text.
> 
>                       Atom & (Energy ev)
> 
>    Property         H&D   Li    Na    K    Cs
> 
> Ionization Pot. I   13.6  5.4  5.14  4.34  3.9
> 
> Ionization Pot. II  ----  75.6 47.3  31.8  32.5
> 
> Electronegativity   2.20  0.98 0.93  0.82  0.7
> 
> Electron Affinity** 0.75  0.62 0.55  0.50  0.47
> 
> Covalent Radius (A) 0.32  1.23 1.54  2.03  2.35
> 
> ** Electron affinity is the amount of energy Released when a NEUTRAL ATOM
> ADDS An Electron.
> 
> These numbers point to the Hydrogen-Potassium
> Electron Exchange Interaction as well as the possibility of the larger
> radius Potassium "shrinking" a Neutrino of Radius R = kq^2/0.5 ev while
> giving it energy E/0.5 ev, thus a relativistic mass Mrel = Mo[(E/0.5)+1] and
> then it is picked up by a Proton or Neutral H atom to form the
> Hydrino/Quasineutron.
> 

___________________________________________________________________

	FLAG

	!!!!!!


> There has to be either a high enough temperature to dissociate the H2 or D2
> and K2 diatomic molecules to H, D, or K, or there has to be a "free radical"
> chemical chain reaction  occurring to form them.
> 
	OR:

	There could be other mechanisms ....  

	1]	Above we see:

	a]	high temperature
	b]	free radical

	Blow we see:

	a] 	electrolytic cells
	b]	need or occurance of neutrinos

	ALSO.... and you can abb to the list ... one can have

	a]	energy from other source
	b]	ionizing or other radiation
	b]	electric condition, such as plasma formation parameters 
	being satisfied..
> This should also occur in the Electrolysis Cells,but there has to be
> Neutrinos Present to effect the "Gammaless,Aneutronic", Cold Fusion
> Reactions and OU Heat.
> 
> If the "sterile radius" of the Neutrinos is 28 Angstroms, it would be easy
> for them to be left out of the reactions, depending on the history of the
> liquids and gases used in the experiments.
> 
> Regards,   Frederick
> 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 13 15:23:46 1999
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References: <34AA67B2.3230 earthlink.net> <35B6917C.43D8@earthlink.net> <35B804DE.3F26@earthlink.net> <35D1C3C2.2901@earthlink.net> <35EEA44F.590E@earthlink.net> <35EF6E5E.4D81@earthlink.net> <35F6CDBC.6DA3@earthlink.net> <35F84ACB.5853@earthlink.net> <35

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To: Michael J. Schaffer

>Actually, it is not farfetched. The cathode had a very large surface
>area. Consequently, the current density was very low, about 60
>microA/cm^2 or so (5 A/80,000 cm^2). Recombination can indeed occur at
>a rate equivalent to this current density. The more common heavy water
>electrolytic cold fusion cells run about 1000 times greater current
>density, and for them recombinaiton is normally not a large effect
>(though it should always be measured, to verify!).Niedra's experiment 
>neither proves nor disproves excess heat.

When evaluating recombination, one needs to consider the actual
mechanism rather than looking at the current density. Recombination on
the electrode occurs only as fast as the gases can diffuse through the
solution to the opposite electrode. Once the necessary chemical
component is available, an additional delay is caused by the nature of
the chemical reaction. However, this is not the rate determining step. 
At low absolute currents (not current density),a large fraction of the
gas being produced can dissolve in the solution or can diffuse as small
bubbles to the opposite electrode.  Therefore, one sees a large fraction
of recombination.  However, at higher absolute currents, most of the gas
quickly makes its way to the surface as large bubbles, owing to bubble
induced convection.  Hence, a large fraction of the gas is unavailable
for recombination.  The area of the electrodes plays no role in this
transfer process. However, mechanical stirring does play a role.

Edmund Storms

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 13 20:32:48 1999
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Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 23:37:26 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Dennis C. Lee" <atech ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: PONY?  Re: Research and Development
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At 09:20 PM 3/11/99 -0500, you wrote:
>John,
>
>> Must be a pony in there ?
>>
>> What is the joke?
>
>
>You can embellish it all you want, but the essence is this. It's a
>psychology lab with a room in which a one-way mirror is placed. The floor is
>covered with manure to a significant depth. Subject A is placed in the room,
>and he just sits down a cries. Subject B is placed in the room, and he
>immediately begins to dig about in the manure with great enthusiasm. The
>puzzled researchers ask him about his behavior. He says "I figured with all
>that s----, there must be a pony in there someplace".

OK I'm a bit off with the vapor content scenario. It seems there's alot of
vapor with more to come. Perhaps effects of the planet alignment on the
sun's energy output is a factor of a climate level trigger. I pose the
following questions:


If there was a climate and/or poleshift. Would we be able to recover? eg.

1. Create enough agricultural facilities to replace existing supplies in a
timely fashion for all?

2. Similarly, create energy devices to smoothly replace oil? Or do we keep
using oil?

Can we build stuff fast enough to prevent ghastly lack of resource type
scenarios?

Is there anything anywhere that would suggest things will be ok and under
control no matter what nature may have in store for the future?

Have we utilized all things available to prepare for such an event?

Is there something I don't know that would indicate that we needn't be
concerned of such matters?


Regards;
Dennis


________________________________________________________________

Starfire
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html

Unified Field Art
http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG

Tall Ships
http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html

Concentric Tori
http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG

Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun!
http://www.artbellchatclub.com
________________________________________

When I am working on a problem,
I never think about beauty.
I only think of how to solve the problem.
But when I have finished,
if the solution is not beautiful,
I know it is wrong.

-R. Buckminster Fuller-
________________________________________

'G' defines 'objective art':

"In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in
it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows
and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one
impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of
course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical
certainty, produce one and the same impression.

"At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on
people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive
from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art.

- p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky -
______________________________________________________________________________

"Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the
term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral
and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the
ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in
the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or
unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having
in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the
natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to
to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot
perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower
tones; and must be part of an organized whole."

- p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes -
______________________________________________________________________________


  The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect
our country's interests.  Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men
trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the
powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages.  Every
individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come
under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC,
whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the
person to be terminated.  If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it.  In this
manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths.
  Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since
he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone
else for many years.  When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be
introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will
accompany the one who is to introduce it.  This power will far transcend
that of any man-made organization that would oppose it.  It is needless to
state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the
author.  A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great
mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA.  Every hit man
sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident".
It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once
was and all of its best hit men are long gone.  Prior to Reagan's
inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big
trouble.  One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?).
The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of
the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the
patient".  It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the
run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men.
  A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely
to be highly unstable emotionally.  The above mentioned former associate of the
author had an experience that confirmed this.  An apartment just above one in
which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. 
As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their
scrutiny is thoroughly bugged.  For the more "important" cases there is a
direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters.  Unknown to the CIA
at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection.  One
evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the
fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be
monitoring.  His reaction was complete panic. He started to call
headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began
sobbing.  The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters.
This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by
CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated.
Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time.

quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343)
_______________________________________________________________________________

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 13 20:51:54 1999
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From: "Frederick J Sparber" <fjsparb sprintmail.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: High Pressure Liquid-Gas Electrolysis Cell
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:47:37 -0700
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To: Vortex

A test to see if there is a "Neutrino Gas" in the atmosphere, and if it will
enhance the OU
output of a F&P type electrolysis cell can be made using a coaxial
anode-cathode design pre-pressurized with air to 20 ATM or so,then
pressurized with an aqueous electrolyte using a grease "zerk" and a $12.00
hand-powered greasegun.

The hand-powered greasegun can develop hydraulic (electrolyte)pressures of
15,000 psi or so. Henry's law should determine the solution of the gases
(neutrinos or whatever)in the electrolyte. The calorimetry with a
cylindrical cell shouldn't be too difficult.

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 13 21:02:13 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Novel enrichment mechanism
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 06:00:27 GMT
Organization: Improving
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In http://www.blacklightpower.com/inorgcomp4a.pdf Dr. John Mills
provides for a novel isotope enrichment mechanism of various cations
based upon selection by hydrinos, which may go some way toward
explaining various transmutation results reported.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 14 06:00:51 1999
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From: Tstolper aol.com
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Here's Dieter Britz's answer to the questions about this that I sent him:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------

Hi Tom

[...]
> None of them is doing any checking for Mills, this is news to all of them."
> 
> Dieter, did you speak with all of them yourself, or just the one Raman
> researcher?

I emailed a couple, who contacted the others.

> 
> Did you check any of the other places named on the BLP website?

This was not an exhaustive survey, just a single sample; I think I made
that clear.

> P.S.  Mike Carrell posted the following here on Vortex-L last night:
> "What is missing from this is a careful reading of the BLP web postings,
> 
> which clearly states that the tests at "Virginia Tech" were
> 
> ******blind****** tests in which the testers were not told of the sponsor."

He is quite right, I should have noticed that - and I have said so in
spf.

Now I wonder whether we'll be told of the results...

-- Dieter Britz alias db kemi.aau.dk;  http://www.kemi.aau.dk/~db


-------------- Headers ---------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:15:51 +0100 (MET)
From: Dieter Britz <db kemi.aau.dk>
To: Tstolper aol.com
Subject: Re:  Britz: Mills research at "Virginia Tech"?  3.10.99
In-Reply-To: <efc8db9.36e91704 aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.05.9903121513280.21564-100000 kemi.aau.dk>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------


It's good to see this cleared up quickly.  Thanks to Mike Carrell for noticing
the relevant information on the BLP website and to Dieter Britz for a speedy
acknowledgement.

By the way, I'd guess that we will see the results of the Raman spectroscopy
in the next edition of Mills' book, though possibly merged with the results of
the spectroscopy being done elsewhere.  The latest edition of Mills' book
(January 1999) has hundreds of pages of new results compared with the previous
edition, which I think was November 1996.  

Tom Stolper

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Jean,

You asked for a citation and a summary of Randell Mills' comments on Dufour,
et al, 1997.  Here they are.

R. L. Mills, "Comments on 'Interaction of Palladium/Hydrogen and
Palladium/deuterium to Meassure the Excess energy per Atom for Each Isotope,"
FUSION TECHNOLOGY, Vol. 33 (May 1998), p. 384.

In his one-page "Comments," Mills wrote that he had been informed by
colleagues at Thermacore that the Dufour, et al., 1997 article was a variant
of his work but that Dufour, et al., hadn't cited Mills' work.  Mills wrote
that he had called hydrogen below the conventional ground state "hydrino" and
that Dufour had renamed it "hydrex."  Mills wrote that he was surprised that
Dufour, et al., hadn't acknowledged his original work, because two of the
papers referenced by Dufour, et al., did discuss and cite Mills' work.  

Dufour's "Response" was printed on the next page of the same issue of FUSION
TECHNOLOGY.  Dufour wrote that hydrex had nothing to do with hydrino, and that
he didn't think that Mills had read any of his work.

You can find another summary of Mills' "Comments" and Dufour's "Response" in
Dieter Britz's indispensable bibliography <http://www.kemi.aau.dk/~db/fusion>.

What is your opinion of Mills' work?

Tom Stolper



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From: "Frederick J Sparber" <fjsparb sprintmail.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: High Pressure Liquid-Gas Electrolysis Cell
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To: Vortex

FWIW,Potassium Permanganate (KMnO4)will "Plate"
a conductive greyish-brown coating of Manganese Dioxide (MnO2)on the Anode
of an electrolysis cell.

This is a good Recombiner Catalyst for H2-O2,and since one wants the K+ ions
anyway....

Regards,   Frederick

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From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: recombination
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(Ed, it's really good to see you here on Vortex!)

At 05:25 PM 3/13/99 -0600, Edmund Storms wrote:

>When evaluating recombination, one needs to consider the actual
>mechanism rather than looking at the current density. Recombination on
>the electrode occurs only as fast as the gases can diffuse through the
>solution to the opposite electrode. Once the necessary chemical
>component is available, an additional delay is caused by the nature of
>the chemical reaction. However, this is not the rate determining step. 
>At low absolute currents (not current density),a large fraction of the
>gas being produced can dissolve in the solution or can diffuse as small
>bubbles to the opposite electrode.  Therefore, one sees a large fraction
>of recombination.  However, at higher absolute currents, most of the gas
>quickly makes its way to the surface as large bubbles, owing to bubble
>induced convection.  Hence, a large fraction of the gas is unavailable
>for recombination.  The area of the electrodes plays no role in this
>transfer process. However, mechanical stirring does play a role.

Ed, I just can't believe that recombination is not primarily related to
current density...at least in some cell geometries.  Consider a cell with
cylindrical symmetry: rod-shaped central cathode, cylindrical anode around
it.  At some low value of absolute current, gas evolution would be slow
enuf that the dissolution and diffusion you mention above would create X
percentage recombination inside the cell. Now double the length of this
cell.  Can't we now double the current (i.e. keep the same current density)
and still have the same X percent recombination?


Scott Little 
EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

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Subject: Re: High Pressure Liquid-Gas Electrolysis Cell
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To: Vortex

Using a High Pressure Electrolysis Cell Pressurized with Air should result
in substantial recombination of 2 H2 + O2 where there are about 14 reactions
that have been identified, a few:

1, H2 ---> 2 H

2, H + O2 ---> OH + O

3, OH + H2 ---> H2O + H

4, O + H2 ---> OH + H

5, O + H2O ---> 2 OH...

Add in the K-K+, H-H+, and Electrode Reactions, plus having an MnO2-Coated
Cylindrical Anode as a Recombiner Catalyst with the Excess O2 from the air
pressurization, things should get interesting.

I have plated MnO2 on Brass items using KMNO4
(K+ + MnO4-) using a battery charger that was running at about 15 volts.

This makes a hard and durable coating of conductive MnO2, which will
"donate" an O to become MnO,and then "accept" an O from O2 to return to MnO2
etc., thus is a Recombiner Catalyst. Lead Peroxide, PbO2(Used in Lead-Acid
Batteries) on lead etc.,will do the same thing.

We used to put Potassium Permanganate (KMnO4) in the watering dishes for
chickens, beautiful purplish colors,turns green if you add Hydrogen
Peroxide.  :-)

Regards,   Frederick




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-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 9:06 AM
Subject: recombination

Scott wrote:


>(Ed, it's really good to see you here on Vortex!)

I agree 100%, Scott. :-) Ed wrote some good stuff.
>
>Consider a cell with
>cylindrical symmetry: rod-shaped central cathode, cylindrical anode around
>it.

How about a Brass or Nickel tube internally plated with the Semiconducting
MnO2 as a Recombiner Catalyst pre-pressurized with air (or O2),then
Hydraulically
pressurized to kpsi with the electrolyte? In this way you will always have
EXCESS O2, and the cell will should act as a I^2R device,possibly with OU
heat.

>At some low value of absolute current, gas evolution would be slow
>enuf that the dissolution and diffusion you mention above would create X
>percentage recombination inside the cell.

Under pressure the air (or O2) should do this in the Electrolyte,too?

>Now double the length of this
>cell.  Can't we now double the current (i.e. keep the same current density)
>and still have the same X percent recombination?

Regards,  Frederick
>
>
>Scott Little
>EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
>512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX)
>little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little
>
>


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> 
> Ed, I just can't believe that recombination is not primarily related to
> current density...at least in some cell geometries.  Consider a cell with
> cylindrical symmetry: rod-shaped central cathode, cylindrical anode around
> it.  At some low value of absolute current, gas evolution would be slow
> enuf that the dissolution and diffusion you mention above would create X
> percentage recombination inside the cell. Now double the length of this
> cell.  Can't we now double the current (i.e. keep the same current density)
> and still have the same X percent recombination?
> 
Dear Scott,

For recombination to take place the bubbles must reach the electrode. 
As the current is increased, the bubbles become larger and their rising
causes fluid flow which carries even the smaller bubbles to the surface
and away from the electrodes.  This process is simple to see in
operation in any transparent cell. The bottom line is that recombination
is not important in any cell when the current is above about 100 mA. The
area of the electrode has very little effect on this result because it
has very little influence on the chance that a bubble will hit the
surface. Now, if the electrode were horizontal rather than vertical, the
effect would be different.

In the debate about the effect of recombination, I’m amazed this simple
process was not considered before.  But then skeptics have the same
problem as believers in wanting to see that which supports their
beliefs.  My setup can be easily used to study this effect which I may
do soon.

Regards,
Ed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 14 12:11:08 1999
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To:  Frederick Sparber

The issue is not how to create a cell in which recombination occurs. 
Many materials can and have been used for this purpose.  The issue is
whether claims for excess energy using open cells are false because
unexpected recombination was occurring.  I assert that recombination
will not occur at a significant fraction of the applied energy at
currents above about 100 mA.  Any claims using higher applied currents
will not suffer from a significant error no matter how active the
electrode surface might become.

Edmund Storms

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 14 16:35:04 1999
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Subject: Climate/Pole Shift assumption?
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Dear President Clinton;


It is reasonable to recognize the possibility that the climate and/or pole
axis of the Earth may shift abruptly due to upcoming conditions in our solar
system. Analysis of the said conditions by Albert Einstein acknowledges the
pole shift possibility. The PBS NOVA show "Warnings From The Ice" indicated
evidence that there may be a average global temperature where, when
exceeded, triggers a restablization of the climate to a vastly different
level. In the interest of preparedness we must encourage indoor agricultural
facilities for average homeowners. Energy technology that would transform
power from ambient conditions are known as free energy or zero point energy
generators. Survival may necessitate the ability of the individual to
independantly generate power. Possible upcoming severe global events defines
the need for a 10KW zero point home energy generator system in the interest
of preserving our national security.

Regards;
Dennis


________________________________________________________________

Starfire
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html

Unified Field Art
http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG

Tall Ships
http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html

Concentric Tori
http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG

Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun!
http://www.artbellchatclub.com
________________________________________

When I am working on a problem,
I never think about beauty.
I only think of how to solve the problem.
But when I have finished,
if the solution is not beautiful,
I know it is wrong.

-R. Buckminster Fuller-
________________________________________

'G' defines 'objective art':

"In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in
it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows
and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one
impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of
course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical
certainty, produce one and the same impression.

"At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on
people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive
from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art.

- p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky -
______________________________________________________________________________

"Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the
term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral
and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the
ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in
the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or
unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having
in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the
natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to
to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot
perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower
tones; and must be part of an organized whole."

- p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes -
______________________________________________________________________________


  The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect
our country's interests.  Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men
trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the
powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages.  Every
individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come
under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC,
whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the
person to be terminated.  If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it.  In this
manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths.
  Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since
he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone
else for many years.  When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be
introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will
accompany the one who is to introduce it.  This power will far transcend
that of any man-made organization that would oppose it.  It is needless to
state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the
author.  A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great
mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA.  Every hit man
sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident".
It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once
was and all of its best hit men are long gone.  Prior to Reagan's
inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big
trouble.  One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?).
The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of
the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the
patient".  It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the
run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men.
  A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely
to be highly unstable emotionally.  The above mentioned former associate of the
author had an experience that confirmed this.  An apartment just above one in
which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. 
As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their
scrutiny is thoroughly bugged.  For the more "important" cases there is a
direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters.  Unknown to the CIA
at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection.  One
evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the
fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be
monitoring.  His reaction was complete panic. He started to call
headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began
sobbing.  The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters.
This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by
CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated.
Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time.

quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343)
_______________________________________________________________________________

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From: "Frederick J Sparber" <fjsparb sprintmail.com>
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Subject: Re; The Solar Neutrino "Problem"
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To: Vortex

The "Standard Model" for nuclear burning on the Sun: 4 Protons ---> He4 + 2
e+  + 2 Neutrinos.

This comes by way of P + P ---> D + e+ + Neutrino.

In this step, e+ plus e- pair production plus a Neutrino-Antineutrino pair
production requiring 1.02 Mev or more is required.

This translates to 1.36E3 watts arriving outside the Earth's atmosphere.

>From this: 4 protons = 4*1.007825 AMU going to
He4 = 4.00260 AMU = 4.031300 - 4.00460 = 0.02870 AMU = 4.27515E-12 Joules.

Then 1.36E3/4.27515E-12 = 3.181E14 He4 atoms produced   2 Neutrinos/He4 =
6.362E14 Neutrinos/meter^2/second, The Solar Neutrino Flux.

However, about 2/3rds of these seem to be missing, dropping the flux to
about 2.12E14 Neutrinos/Meter^2/second. The Solar Neutrino Problem. Hydrino
Effect?  :-)

Be that as it may,the neutrinos are believed to have a rest mass/energy of
0.5 ev, or less, are around somewhere,and who's to say that most of them
pass "can pass through the Earth or Atmosphere, without any interaction"?

Since their relativistic mass,Mrel=Mo[(E/Eo)+1]
or v = {2kT/Mo[(kT/Eo)+1]}^1/2 can allow them to "thermalize" by elastic
"billiard ball collisions", ending up with a radius R = kq^2/0.5 ev ~= 28
Angstroms, ~56 Angstroms diameter,and rattle around in the atmosphere where
they might (since they should have an affinity for positive charges)couple
to a proton or deuteron and form a Quasineutron or Quasidineutron with a
positive charge slightly less than that of the proton or deuteron so that
when coupled to the electron a slightly negative excess charge allowing them
to form compounds,(the entities that Mills calls "Hydrinos" and "Hydrino
Hydrides").

Take your pick.

Regards,  Frederick



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From: Michael Schaffer <schaffermj yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:  Ibison: very critical review of R.L.Mills opus in JSE
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Tom Stolper wrote:

>In his post Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:12:10 -0800 (PST), Michael
Schaffer
>wrote [snip]
>
>Michael, have you read the Mills, Good & Shaubach 1994 article and the 
>Mills & Good 1995 article?

Yes and yes. But I don't have the Mills & Good 1995 one with me now.
Sorry about that.

Have you read the Shkedi et all paper, Nuclear Fusion, v. 28 (1995) p.
1720? They did an extensive series of light water cold fusion
experiments in which they employed excellent calorimetry and
measurement of recombination. This paper, and a further comment by
Shkedi, NF 30 (1996) 133, make it very clear that recombination IS
exactly equal to the excess heat in their experiments. Their geometry
is cylindrical, like many (but not all) experiments of this class. 

I am the first to say that recombination is not a universal problem.
However, it must be measured, unless the excess heat results clearly
can not be explained by even 100% recombination.  
==
Michael J. Schaffer


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 14 22:38:27 1999
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Edmund Storms wrote some good points about recombination in response
to some comments by me about the Nierda experiment at NASA. 

However, I do not think Ed's points fully explain away the
recombination hypothesis in Nierda's experiments. The Nierda
electrolyte was well stirred, so diffusion would be rate limiting only
right at the electrodes. The Nierda experiment used pulsed current,
0.1 sec on and 0.9 sec off. Thus, their "5 Amp" case was actually 0.5
A average current. The experiment had large electrodes. At some level
the large geometry and low current density have to have some effect. I
have had recombination in my own experiments (measured!). I cannot say
that Nierda did or not have it in this particular set of experiments.
However, Nierda's "Power gain vs. cell current" curves look like a
recombination artifact curve to me. 

I just mentioned in a reply to Tom Stolper that Shkedi et al., Nuclear
Fusion 28 (1995) 1720 ran extensive light water cold fusion
experiments with excellent calorimetry and recombination measurements.
These were done in smaller containers, closer to your own (Ed's)
experiments. They found recombination was equal to the putative excess
heat. I think one must consider recombination to be a possibility in
thes low current density experiments.

I reiterate:  I have never said that recombination is always so large
as to explain away all apparent instances of excess heat.
==
Michael J. Schaffer


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 14 22:41:45 1999
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http://www.erols.com/iri/speakerlist.html


Regards;
Dennis

________________________________________________________________

Starfire
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html

Unified Field Art
http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG

Tall Ships
http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html

Concentric Tori
http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG

Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun!
http://www.artbellchatclub.com
________________________________________

When I am working on a problem,
I never think about beauty.
I only think of how to solve the problem.
But when I have finished,
if the solution is not beautiful,
I know it is wrong.

-R. Buckminster Fuller-
________________________________________

'G' defines 'objective art':

"In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in
it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows
and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one
impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of
course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical
certainty, produce one and the same impression.

"At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on
people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive
from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art.

- p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky -
______________________________________________________________________________

"Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the
term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral
and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the
ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in
the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or
unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having
in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the
natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to
to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot
perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower
tones; and must be part of an organized whole."

- p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes -
______________________________________________________________________________


  The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect
our country's interests.  Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men
trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the
powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages.  Every
individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come
under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC,
whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the
person to be terminated.  If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it.  In this
manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths.
  Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since
he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone
else for many years.  When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be
introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will
accompany the one who is to introduce it.  This power will far transcend
that of any man-made organization that would oppose it.  It is needless to
state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the
author.  A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great
mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA.  Every hit man
sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident".
It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once
was and all of its best hit men are long gone.  Prior to Reagan's
inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big
trouble.  One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?).
The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of
the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the
patient".  It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the
run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men.
  A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely
to be highly unstable emotionally.  The above mentioned former associate of the
author had an experience that confirmed this.  An apartment just above one in
which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. 
As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their
scrutiny is thoroughly bugged.  For the more "important" cases there is a
direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters.  Unknown to the CIA
at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection.  One
evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the
fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be
monitoring.  His reaction was complete panic. He started to call
headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began
sobbing.  The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters.
This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by
CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated.
Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time.

quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343)
_______________________________________________________________________________

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 15 04:26:02 1999
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  Vorts:

  Interesting article on a fusioneer who had some ideas
and got reamed.

"I wanted to fix this (fusion) program for the nation," he said, 
 charging once again that billions of dollars are being wasted 
 on the wrong technical paths, most notably DOE's National Ignition 
 Facility fusion laser at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory 
 in California.
   ....
 Mascheroni believes a competing technology, called the hydrogen-
 fluoride laser, which he favors, is the one technology with enough 
 power and precision to produce the difficult fusion reaction.
 He bases his argument largely on a series of classified underground 
 nuclear tests, dubbed Centurion-Halite, that demonstrated that X-ray energy 
 could be used to spark and drive a fusion reaction in tiny hydrogen 
 fuel pellets."

  Full article is here:
   http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a36ecc2cc28f2.htm    


     Mitchell Swartz



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Frederick wrote:

The "Standard Model" for nuclear burning on the Sun:

4 Protons ---> He4 + 2 e+  + 2 Neutrinos. ...

However, about 2/3rds of these seem to be missing, ...

Be that as it may, the neutrinos are believed to have a rest
mass/energy of 0.5 ev, or less, are around somewhere,
and who's to say that most of them "can pass through the
Earth or Atmosphere, without any interaction"?

Since their relativistic mass, ...
can allow them to "thermalize" by elastic
"billiard ball collisions", ...
and rattle around in the atmosphere ...
they might ...  form compounds, (the entities that
Mills calls "Hydrinos" and "Hydrino Hydrides").

Hi Frederick,

Your musings on neutrinos have been very entertaining;
but, regarding hydrino formation, I think your analytic
ability could reveal more interesting results if, for the
sake of argument, you assume that neutrinos do not exist.
Slice first with Occam's razor.

Jack Smith


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Subject: Re: recombination
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  Both Michael and Edmund have good points.

At 10:36 PM 3/14/99 -0800, Michael Schaffer wrote:
>Edmund Storms wrote some good points about recombination in response
>to some comments by me about the Nierda experiment at NASA. 
>
>However, I do not think Ed's points fully explain away the
>recombination hypothesis in Nierda's experiments. The Nierda
>electrolyte was well stirred, so diffusion would be rate limiting only
>right at the electrodes. The Nierda experiment used pulsed current,
>0.1 sec on and 0.9 sec off. Thus, their "5 Amp" case was actually 0.5
>A average current. The experiment had large electrodes. At some level
>the large geometry and low current density have to have some effect. I
>have had recombination in my own experiments (measured!). I cannot say
>that Nierda did or not have it in this particular set of experiments.
>However, Nierda's "Power gain vs. cell current" curves look like a
>recombination artifact curve to me. 

   The purported artifact can be eliminated by ignoring the
thermoneutral potential, and defining the input electrical
power as V*I.  It is probably a good idea to determine the
existence of putative excess heats both ways (that and the
less conservative (V-Vth)*I method).


 ==========================================================

>>I just mentioned in a reply to Tom Stolper that Shkedi et al., Nuclear
>Fusion 28 (1995) 1720 ran extensive light water cold fusion
>experiments with excellent calorimetry and recombination measurements.
>These were done in smaller containers, closer to your own (Ed's)
>experiments. They found recombination was equal to the putative excess
>heat. I think one must consider recombination to be a possibility in
>thes low current density experiments.

   Improper bias of the system outside of the optimal operating
point yields high recombination on both sides of the o.o.p.
perhaps explaining some of the differences.
The issues of material activity, and other matters, are 
of considerable importance as well, but less related to the
recombination issue.


 ==========================================================

>I reiterate:  I have never said that recombination is always so large
>as to explain away all apparent instances of excess heat.
>Michael J. Schaffer

    There is certainly much to be learned about these systems.

     Mitchell Swartz



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Scott
	Bubble size depends on pressure, and doubling the length of the
cylinder will result in twice the pressure. You will have small bubbles at
the bottom, but much larger ones at the top carring away much more gas at
the larger currents, I believe.
 Hank

> ----------
> From: 	Scott Little[SMTP:little eden.com]
> Reply To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
> Sent: 	Sunday, March 14, 1999 8:07 AM
> To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
> Subject: 	recombination
> 
> (Ed, it's really good to see you here on Vortex!)
> 
> At 05:25 PM 3/13/99 -0600, Edmund Storms wrote:
> 
> >When evaluating recombination, one needs to consider the actual
> >mechanism rather than looking at the current density. Recombination on
> >the electrode occurs only as fast as the gases can diffuse through the
> >solution to the opposite electrode. Once the necessary chemical
> >component is available, an additional delay is caused by the nature of
> >the chemical reaction. However, this is not the rate determining step. 
> >At low absolute currents (not current density),a large fraction of the
> >gas being produced can dissolve in the solution or can diffuse as small
> >bubbles to the opposite electrode.  Therefore, one sees a large fraction
> >of recombination.  However, at higher absolute currents, most of the gas
> >quickly makes its way to the surface as large bubbles, owing to bubble
> >induced convection.  Hence, a large fraction of the gas is unavailable
> >for recombination.  The area of the electrodes plays no role in this
> >transfer process. However, mechanical stirring does play a role.
> 
> Ed, I just can't believe that recombination is not primarily related to
> current density...at least in some cell geometries.  Consider a cell with
> cylindrical symmetry: rod-shaped central cathode, cylindrical anode around
> it.  At some low value of absolute current, gas evolution would be slow
> enuf that the dissolution and diffusion you mention above would create X
> percentage recombination inside the cell. Now double the length of this
> cell.  Can't we now double the current (i.e. keep the same current
> density)
> and still have the same X percent recombination?
> 
> 
> Scott Little 
> EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX
> 78759
> 512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
> little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little
> 

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To: Henry J 

>         Bubble size depends on pressure, and doubling the length of the
> cylinder will result in twice the pressure. You will have small bubbles at
> the bottom, but much larger ones at the top carring away much more gas at
> the larger currents, I believe.
>  Hank

Actually it is a bit more complex than that. The bubbles will be about
the same size regardless of location because, to be freed from the
surface, a bubble must achieve a buoyancy sufficient to overcome surface
tension. Surface tension is generally uniform.  Consequently, the deeper
bubbles will contain a greater number of moles of gas when they achieve
the required size. As these rise to the surface, and liquid pressure is
reduced, they will grow in size.  Because they contain more gas, they
will be bigger than bubbles originating near the top of the electrode
once both reach the surface.
  
In addition, the average size of the bubble changes with time, growing
bigger as electrolysis is continued. Thus even less gas will reach the
opposite electrode as time goes on.  

Generally speaking, bubbles originate at the mouth of cracks and at
active sites where ion recombination can produce gas.  These are the
same sites needed to ionize the gas from the opposite electrode, a
process which must precede recombination. Consequently, a blanket of
evolving gas protects the very sites needed for recombination. 

On the other hand, recombination happens at low current for several
reasons:

1. The bubbles are small and convection currents are weak. Hence a
fraction of the bubbles can diffuse throughout the solution before they
reach the surface.
2. Gas production is too small to saturate active sites.  Consequently,
some of the active sites can absorb the opposite gas, thereby causing
recombination. (Current density may play a role here.)
3. A small but fixed amount of the gases can dissolve in the solution
and these components always bathe the opposite electrode. Recombination
occurs when an active site becomes available. This fixed amount of
recombination is small compared to applied power at high currents.

Stirring will enhance the recombination reaction at low current but not
at high current because active sites will not be available to the gas
should it reach the opposite electrode. Recombination can not take place
within a mixture of D2 and O2 without an active surface being present.

These processes do not allow significant recombination when high
currents are used and they explain why NO ONE has detected recombination
within the solution except at very low currents. While recombination is
an attractive explanation to dismiss positive results, it simply does
not fly.

Edmund Storms

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 15 14:01:44 1999
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From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: recombination
In-Reply-To: <36EC160F.1D09 ix.netcom.com>
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At 14:03 3/14/99 -0600, Edmund Storms wrote:

>The bottom line is that recombination
>is not important in any cell when the current is above about 100 mA. The
>area of the electrode has very little effect on this result because it
>has very little influence on the chance that a bubble will hit the
>surface.

I see your points, Ed.  Now consider this new geometry:

A cell is constructed using a plate anode and plate cathode placed parallel
to each other and closely spaced.  At some absolute current, X percent
recombination takes place because of gas dissolution and diffusion to the
other electrode.

Now, let's double the area of these plates by extended them only in the
horizontal direction.  Can we now double the cell current (i.e. keep the
same current density) and expect to observe the same X percent recombination?

If not, why?



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 15 15:18:49 1999
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Jed's Atlanta Coordinates
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Sorry I have been out of touch. Akira and others have asked whether I will
be around at the upcoming APS conference. Yes, of course, and anyone who
comes should feel free to call me, leave a message, or drop by. Except that
I expect you & I will be downtown the whole time, so it may be difficult to
make contact. I expect the conference will be a mob scene. My house and
office are twenty minutes away from the conference site, close to the
Peachtree DeKalb Airport and the Chamblee subway station. The phone numbers
are:

Home 770-458-8107
Office 770-451-9890
Cell phone 770-815-1544

You always dial all 10 digits in Atlanta.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 15 15:37:25 1999
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From: "Richard T. Murray" <rmforall earthlink.net>
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Subject: Trenergy Lab.: Cold fusion used to neutralize radioactive waste
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seelite my-dejanews.com wrote:

> Cold fusion used to neutralize radioactive waste
>
> Scientists from Trenergy Laboratory in Salt Lake City, USA, claim to have
> found a way of transmuting nuclear waste into harmless elements. Confirmation
> has come from scientists at one of Europe's most respected nuclear
> laboratories, CISE, near Milan in Italy.
>
> The process is safe, simple enough to be run in a high-school laboratory and
> cheaper than storing an equivalent amount of radioactive waste for one year.
> It is estimated that to treat one kilo of waste with this process would cost
> $2,000 - it costs $2,500 just to store one kilo for a year.
>
> The process used by the US scientists takes about one hour and requires 5
> pence worth of electricity at 300 watts in a special cold fusion or Low
> Energy Nuclear Transmutation (LENT) cell. The Italian scientists say the
> process is so remarkable that it could not have been caused by error or
> contamination. They confirm that the dangerous radioactive elements such as
> thorium, caesium and weapons-grade uranium transmute into non-radioactive
> elements like titanium and copper. Scientists believe it takes billions of
> years for thorium to decay naturally.
>
> The US Department of Energy have taken an interest in the project and are
> offering their support. Several reputable US laboratories and universities
> have subsequently confirmed the process and the results that many scientists
> say are impossible. The inventors are offering a test cell to anyone wanting
> to challenge their work. It costs $5,000 and comes with a money-back
> guarantee.
>
> For further information, contact Dr Hal Fox at: halfox slkc.uswest.net or
> Website: http:/www.padrak.com/ine. (Source: Positive News, UK)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "The fusion process is the method for the immediate future. It will use a
> form of nuclear energy derived from a single isotope of water. It is safe and
> superabundant in the waters of the oceans and rivers of the world. This
> nuclear fusion uses not heat, but a cold process, and will be used relatively
> very soon ..." (Benjamin Creme)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Above was part of the previously posted article/interview with Russ George
> from the March 99 issue of Share International <http://www.shareintl.org>
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 15 18:17:10 1999
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From: Edmund Storms <Storms2 ix.netcom.com>
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Subject: Re: recombination
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Scott Little wrote:

> I see your points, Ed.  Now consider this new geometry:
> 
> A cell is constructed using a plate anode and plate cathode placed parallel
> to each other and closely spaced.  At some absolute current, X percent
> recombination takes place because of gas dissolution and diffusion to the
> other electrode.
> 
> Now, let's double the area of these plates by extended them only in the
> horizontal direction.  Can we now double the cell current (i.e. keep the
> same current density) and expect to observe the same X percent recombination?
> 
> If not, why?

Well Scott, lets examine the process in a little more detail.  As I
posted earlier, the process has three parts. At low current, the
following is true.
> 
1. The bubbles are small and convection currents are weak. Hence a
fraction of the bubbles can diffuse throughout the solution before they
reach the surface.(The closer the electrodes, the more recombination can
result from bubble transfer provided the other two conditions are
favorable.)

2. Gas production is too small to saturate active sites.  Consequently,
some of the active sites can absorb the opposite gas, thereby causing
recombination. (Current density may play a role here.)

3. A small but fixed amount of the gases can dissolve in the solution
and these components always bathe the opposite electrode. Recombination
occurs when an active site becomes available. This fixed amount of
recombination is small compared to applied power at high currents.

So, at low current, I expect an increase in size may produce increased
recombination, but not in direct proportion to the size increase.  The
effect will depend on which of the three processes is saturated. 

At high current, an additional factor operates.

4. Generally speaking, bubbles originate at the mouth of cracks and at
active sites where ion recombination can produce gas.  These are the
same sites needed to ionize the gas from the opposite electrode, a
process which must precede recombination. Consequently, a blanket of
evolving gas protects the very sites needed for recombination. 

Consequently at high current, recombination will be limited by the
availability of active sites as well as by the availability of gas.
Increasing the area will increase the number of sites but the effect
will depend on whether this increased number is protected by evolving
gas.  At high current, most of the bubbles do not get any where close to
the opposite electrode so size is not important. Does this make sense?

Ed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 15 18:22:36 1999
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From: "Frederick J Sparber" <fjsparb sprintmail.com>
To: "Vortex-L" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Paint Spray Tank "CF" Reactor?
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To: Vortex

In the early 1970s, I got the bright idea that an arc to a pool of water
saturated with LiOH
would give the fusion reaction:
P + 3Li7 --> 2 2He4 + 17.3 Mev.

So I bought a stainless steel pressure-cooker and a Neon Sign Transformer
7,000v-ct-7,500v with the center-tap (ct)at ground.Since I got the best
results with the  full 15,000 volts at 60 ma. I floated it by setting it on
a 1/2"sheet of plexiglass (Lucite).

Eureka? The pressure shot up so fast it was unbelievable, and
extinguished,then as soon as it cooled a bit it would arc and cut off and
kept repeating this cycle. The arc was provided by a 5/8" diameter x 12"
long ceramic boiler ignition electrode sealed through a compression gland in
the lid of the pressure cooker.

Nobody but nobody would believe that it could be fusion, and I DIDN'T do any
calorimetry.

Sears sells a 2.5 gallon paint spray tank about
8" dia x 12" high for $89.95, and they are rated at 25-50 psig working
pressure and 80 psig MAX. There are four tapped 1/8" and 1/4" female
pipe-thread holes for the pressure gage, inlet and outlet fittings,and the
pressure relief valve.in the removable top.

I have such a tank, but no neon sign transformers, since they and the
pressure cooker were diverted to biomass research ca 1980. :-)

Do you think that two electrodes instead of one with an inductor tied to the
tank (which will have to be above ground)with the other end of the inductor
tied to ground will keep the arcs alive once they are started? What kind of
inductor?

BTW. I think the neutrinos that were in the air
in the pressure cooker catalyzed the "fusion" reaction, so this time I'm
going to pre-pressurize the tank with about 30 psig of air pressure, for
starters. One might try Boric Acid instead of the LiOH. It can be bought by
the pound at your local pharmacy.

Regards,   Frederick


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 16 06:24:45 1999
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Ed Storms pointed out that recombination would be a problem only at low
absolute currents.

In post Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:36:05 -0800 (PST), Michael Schaffer replied,

"Edmund Storms wrote some good points about recombination in response
to some comments by me about the Nierda experiment at NASA. 

However, I do not think Ed's points fully explain away the
recombination hypothesis in Nierda's experiments. The Nierda
electrolyte was well stirred, so diffusion would be rate limiting only
right at the electrodes. The Nierda experiment used pulsed current,
0.1 sec on and 0.9 sec off. Thus, their "5 Amp" case was actually 0.5
A average current. The experiment had large electrodes. At some level
the large geometry and low current density have to have some effect."

To begin with, the name is Niedra, not Nierda.

More to the point, Niedra, et al., said specifically (p. 7 top of col. 1),
that they did NOT systematically explore the pulsed mode.   Their Table I on
p. 10 shows that only the 31 A run was in pulsed mode.  The 5 A run was NOT in
pulsed mode.  Their 5 A case was a 5 A case, with 5 A of constant current.

Thermacore's cell, reported in Mills, Good & Shaubach 1994, had a similar
geometry and an even larger cathode.  Thermacore measured recombination and
found it to be negligible.  

For Michael Schaffer, the bottom line on Niedra, et al., seems to be that
"Nierda's "Power gain vs. cell current" curves look like a recombination
artifact curve to me."  I guess we all see what we want to see, or don't see
what we don't want to see, as Ed Storms and others on both sides of this long
and recurring debate have pointed out. 

But you're right about one thing, Michael:  Niedra, et al., would have been
better off if they had measured recombination themselves, without relying on
Thermacore, because not measuring recombination when total heat out was less
than total V*I in just left them open to the kind of endless recombination
criticisms that we're seeing here now and have seen before.

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 16 06:28:41 1999
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In his post Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:13:03 -0800 (PST), in the thread titled
" Re:  Ibison: very critical review of R.L.Mills opus in JSE,"  Michael
Schaffer wrote that he had read Mills, Good & Shaubach 1994, as well as Mills
and Good 1995.

Michael went on:

"Have you read the Shkedi et all paper, Nuclear Fusion, v. 28 (1995) p.
1720? They did an extensive series of light water cold fusion
experiments in which they employed excellent calorimetry and
measurement of recombination. This paper, and a further comment by
Shkedi, NF 30 (1996) 133, make it very clear that recombination IS
exactly equal to the excess heat in their experiments. Their geometry
is cylindrical, like many (but not all) experiments of this class. "

Yes, I have read Shkedi, et al., 1995, but the name of the journal is FUSION
TECHNOLOGY,  not Nuclear Fusion.  (Is this a Freudian slip, indicative of a
wish to move the debate onto more familiar ground, where Michael could make
many valid and telling points?)

Ed Storms pointed our earlier in this recombination thread that recombination
was a problem primarily at low absolute currents, especially below 100 mA.
Maybe that's why the experiments of Shkedi, et al., were of poor Faradaic
efficiency and showed lots of recombination.  Shkedi, et al., used currents
running from 0.18 A to 0.60 A., vs. the 5.0 A to 40.0 A range of the constant
current experiments of Niedra, et al.

Here are my comments on Shkedi, et al., as posted in 1997 on Vortex-L:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Subj:    Re:  Recombination

Rich Murray has cited and quoted the article by Shkedi, et al., in Fusion
Technology, Vol. 28, No. 4 (November 1995), pp. 1720-1730, to the effect that
the excess heat from Mills' electrolytic energy cells was an artifact caused
by recombination in the cells.

Shkedi, et al., cited only the earliest of Mills' articles on excess heat,
namely, Mills & Kneizys 1991, which reported only low-power experiments, for
the analysis of which recombination was indeed an issue.

Shkedi, et al., failed to cite Mills, Good & Shaubach, Fusion Technology,
Vol. 25 (January 1994), pp. 103-119.  Shekedi and his team failed to deal
with the much more robust results reported by Mills, Good & Shaubach in their
1994 article, most of which were beyond even 100% recombination.  

The strongest recombination claimed by Shkedi, et al., was only about 34%
(see their Table IV).  

The article by Shkedi, et al., was received by Fusion Technology on May 31,
1994, so the January 1994 article by Mills, Good & Shaubach should have been
available to Shkedi and his team.

According to Good's comments in Fusion Technology, Vol. 30 (September 1996),
p. 132, Shkedi, et al., failed to contact Good or his colleagues, even though
Shkedi and his team contacted others.

The 1995 Shkedi article was rendered even more obsolete by an ironical
coincidence:  it was published in the very same issue as an article by Mills
& Good on "Fractional Quantum Energy Levels of Hydrogen,"  pp. 1697-1719,
which contained sections (on pages 1698-1701) reporting exceptionally robust
results from a long-running experiment, using a wire-mesh cathode, that
produced excess heat far beyond even 100% recombination.

To sum up, the 1995 Shkedi article was already obsolete by the time of
publication, and it's now hopelessly out-of-date, though it retains
historical interest.

Tom Stolper

--------- Headers ---------
From: Tstolper aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 12:12:33 -0400 (EDT)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Shkedi said (his letter dated 14 December 1995, in FUSION FACTS, Vol. 7, No. 6
(December 1995), pp.
20-21) that his team had consulted lots of cold fusioneers for their
experiments.  Evidently they didn't consult, or at least didn't listen to,
anyone who knew anything about how to make a Mills-type cell work.  Most
notably, Shkedi didn't even consult, let alone listen to, Mills or Good; and
at the time, Mills and Good would have been happy to provide advice or
assistance or both.  Today, I have the impression (and that's all it is, just
an impression from afar) that they're no longer willing to expend any more
time on people they think are die-hard skeptics.

In his letter to FUSION FACTS, Shkedi continued to avoid the exceptional
excess heat results of Mills & Good.  

Here is all that Shkedi had to say about the Mills & Good article published
in the same issue of FUSION TECHNOLOGY (November 1995) as the article by
Shkedi and his team:  "the excess heat claimed to be found by Mills and Good
is predicated on the assumption stated following equation (7):  'The net
Faraday efficiency of gas evolution is ASSUMED to be unity.'"  (The all-caps
emphasis is Shkedi's.)

Shkedi neglected to mention that the excess heat results reported by Mills &
Good in their 1995 article were so far beyond recombination that they would
have been impressive even if their Faradaic efficiency had been zero.  The
1995 Mills & Good results were all the more impressive given that even Shkedi
wasn't able to do worse than 66% Faradaic efficiency.

Mills & Good put 5.72 ± 0.12 MJ of electrical energy into their Ni/H2O/K2CO3
experiment and got 29.8 ± 0.4 MJ of heat out.  The uncorrected power in (V*I)
was
4.73 ±0.10 W , and the heat power out was 24.6 ±0.5 W.  They used a pulsed
current of 15 ± 0.1 A with a 15% duty cycle.  See their Table I on p. 1701.
One can't explain away results like that by invoking recombination, as Michael
Schaffer knows, so Shkedi just avoided them.

To sum up again, Shkedi did show that his own experiments were of poor
Faradaic
efficiency, but that's all he was able to show.

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 16 16:57:45 1999
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Subject: Sir John Herschel
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I was looking for Sir John Herschel's philosophy of music theory and
structure when I came across this:

http://infi.net/~cwt/moon1835.html

http://users.visi.net/~cwt/moonwalk.html

I wonder if Sir Herschel's glass optics used in his telescope are still
servicable?


Regards;
Dennis

________________________________________________________________

Starfire
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/starfire.html

Unified Field Art
http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/UFA1.JPG

Tall Ships
http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/tallship.html

Concentric Tori
http://pw1.netcom.com/~atech/GoldCTori_A.JPG

Circle Of Fire - Dreamland - VR Avatars! Great Fun!
http://www.artbellchatclub.com
________________________________________

When I am working on a problem,
I never think about beauty.
I only think of how to solve the problem.
But when I have finished,
if the solution is not beautiful,
I know it is wrong.

-R. Buckminster Fuller-
________________________________________

'G' defines 'objective art':

"In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in
it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows
and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one
impression on one man and another impression on another, presuming of
course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical
certainty, produce one and the same impression.

"At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on
people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive
from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art.

- p26-p27 from "In Search Of The Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky -
______________________________________________________________________________

"Music, pure, natural, and harmonical, in the true and evident sense of the
term, is the division of any key-note, or starting-point, into it's integral
and ultimate parts, and the descending divisions will always answer to the
ascending, having reference to the general whole. The essence and mystery in
the development of harmonies consists in the fact that every key-note, or
unit, is a nucleus including the past, the present, and the future, having
in itself an inherent power, with a tendency to expand and contract. In the
natural system, as each series rises, its contents expand and fall back to
to the original limit from any point ascending or descending; we cannot
perceive finality in any ultimate; every tone is related to higher and lower
tones; and must be part of an organized whole."

- p16 "Harmonies Of Tones And Colours Developed By Evolution" by F.J. Hughes -
______________________________________________________________________________


  The image of the CIA foisted on the public is of a group organized to protect
our country's interests.  Instead, it is an organization of dangerous men
trained in the black arts and deception to safeguard the interests of the
powerful elite who have kept this planet in bondage for ages.  Every
individual who has shown unusual ability, including the psychic, has come
under their surveilance. It is determined at headquarters in Washington, DC,
whether or not it is in the best interests of the power structure for the
person to be terminated.  If so, a hit man is sent to arrange it.  In this
manner, many people over the years have met with untimely deaths.
  Many have wondered why the author has not met with a similar fate, since
he has been stomping on the toes of the structure much harder than anyone
else for many years.  When the time is propitious for a great new idea to be
introduced into the world, the power to enforce its introduction will
accompany the one who is to introduce it.  This power will far transcend
that of any man-made organization that would oppose it.  It is needless to
state that many hit men have been expended in an effort to terminate the
author.  A former associate of the author with unusual abilities and a great
mission to fulfill has had a similar run-in with the CIA.  Every hit man
sent to eliminate him has himself been terminated by a strange "accident".
It is interesting to note that the CIA is now only a shadow of what it once
was and all of its best hit men are long gone.  Prior to Reagan's
inauguration small newspaper articles kept hinting that the CIA was in big
trouble.  One of them mentioned that nearly 900 agents had been fired(?).
The most recent of these articles stated that the morale and performance of
the CIA had reached an all time low and "only drastic surgery would save the
patient".  It is also significant that such rumors and articles followed the
run-ins the author and an associate had with the CIA men.
  A typical CIA agent is an individual with few scruples and he is also likely
to be highly unstable emotionally.  The above mentioned former associate of the
author had an experience that confirmed this.  An apartment just above one in
which he was once living was occupied by a CIA agent sent there to monitor him. 
As has always been the case, the living quarters of everyone under their
scrutiny is thoroughly bugged.  For the more "important" cases there is a
direct pipeline from this bugging to CIA headquarters.  Unknown to the CIA
at the time was that this associate was adept in astral projection.  One
evening the agent found out about this ability when he became aware of the
fact that he was being monitored by the one he was supposed to be
monitoring.  His reaction was complete panic. He started to call
headquarters but dropped the phone, rushed to the bathroom and began
sobbing.  The proceedings were automatically transmitted to headquarters.
This individual had astrally visited headquarters, wherein it was decided by
CIA officialdom that it was in the best interests that he be liquidated.
Some prominent individuals in the public eye were there at the time.

quote from "The Awesome Life Force" by Joseph H. Cater (p342-p343)
_______________________________________________________________________________

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 16 22:12:11 1999
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Subject: Positive Public Newspaper Report on Cold Fusion replication
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March 15, 1999

Vortex,

Russ George of Saturna Technologies sent  the notice and link to the newspaper
article that appeared today in San Francisco. The article gives reference to the
upcoming APS presentation in Atlanta. I have taken the liberty of fowarding to
Vortex and possible interested individuals.

> Big story in the SF paper today on SRI and cold fusion coming back to life. SRI
> has put out some heavy official press releases which means they must have DOD
> approval on it. Of course I am not mentioned but that's normal and OK.
>
> Here's the web site for the story.
>
> http://www.sfgate.com/technology/beat/
>
> This is mostly the Arata DS cathode result but not entirely. Good news no
> matter what or how it gets out.
>
> Russ



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 17 06:45:21 1999
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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:50:16 +0200
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From: "JEAN DELAGARDE" <jlagarde cyberaccess.fr>
Subject: Opinion on Mills'work
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Dear all

Tom Stolper asked for my opinion of Mills'work. I suppose that it is not
very different from everybody's in Vortex. To say the least, I am extremely
puzzled. The hydrino hypothesis is difficult to believe for a number of
reasons. Being extremely stable it should exist in important quantities in
our universe and how is it possible that it would not have beeen discovered
before ? On the other hand its theoretical justification as given by Mills'
book is in complete contradiction with quantum mechanics. This is very
difficult to swallow with regard to the overwhelming efficiency of Q.M.
throughout more than half a century of application and verification.

Regarding Mills'experiments, one cannot help noting that in spite of
numerous announcements and with the exception of laboratory results, not a
single proof has been given of any excess heat and/or production of new
hydrino compounds. In reading the latest documents published on BLP site
you feel like dreaming : after having rewritten physics, Mills is now
creating a completely new and fantasmagoric chemistry unkwown from any
existing scientist and for which no proofs are given.

I also note that Jed said recently that he dismissed BLP

On the other hand BLP seeems to be a prosperous company well funded and
staffed, attracting investors who are not supposed to waste their money for
a ghost.

I personnaly tend to think that Mills has dicovered something real which
can be explained by existing physics and chemestry. In this light, Dufour's
hydrex which is presented as a metastable particle with a life of a few
hours and fully compatible with quantum mechanics, is much more credible
for me than hydrino.

                                                Jean DeLagarde


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 17 08:11:03 1999
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Subject: Excess heat at EarthTech!
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We have succeeded in creating a D+D fusion experiment that produces a
Pout/Pin (calculated) of 1.0000000001.  Input power is 100 watts. Excess
power is 10 nanowatts.

Read all about it at:

http://www.eden.com/~little/fusor/bigsys3.html



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 17 08:27:36 1999
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Opinion on Mill's Work
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Jean Delagarde writes:

	I also note that Jed said recently that he dismissed BLP

Not scientifically! Please, I do not want to cause mistaken impressions
here. I remain impressed by some of the papers in Fusion Technology and the
claims made years ago by an engineer from Thermacore in a lecture I
attended. It is a shame the experiments have not been widely replicated.
They have hardly been replicated at all.

I dismiss Mills' business strategy and his public relations. I think they
are fatally flawed, although I have to admit, he seems to have gathered a
great deal of capital. That is surprising. Maybe he will succeed in other
ways, but I do not think so. Based on the history of things like electric
motors, electric lights, airplanes and transistors, I do not think the
Mills and his colleagues working alone, in isolation, can develop this
technology. It will take a mass effort by many thousands of researchers in
hundreds of companies. Even AT&T could not have developed the transistor
alone, and this energy source is proving even more difficult than the
transistor. The first transistor required roughly 23 years of basic
research (1925 - 1948). Practical, cost effective transistors were not
develped until the late '50s, after 10 more years of intense, world-wide,
multi-billion dollar applied R&D. At this rate cold fusion (or whatever
Mills is doing) might take even longer than the transistor. It might 50 to
60 years. We cannot afford to wait.

I dismiss many others for the same reason. No matter how brilliant they
are, these people will not and cannot make a practical cold fusion device,
any more than the Wright brothers might have flown accross the Atlantic in
1927 if they had continued working on their own, in isolation.

As for the hydrino hypothesis, I cannot judge such esoteric physics.I have
no opinion about it.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 17 08:54:55 1999
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From: BriggsRO aol.com
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In a message dated 3/17/99 8:09:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, little eden.com
writes:

<< 
 We have succeeded in creating a D+D fusion experiment that produces a
 Pout/Pin (calculated) of 1.0000000001.  Input power is 100 watts. Excess
 power is 10 nanowatts.
  >>
Hay Scott, are you some sort of wise ass??  Get it up to at least 1.000000001
before you brag.

Regards,

Bob Briggs

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 17 09:14:08 1999
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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:46:43 -0600
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From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Ibison's review of Mills' book
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At Ibison's request, I am passing on a reply (he's not subscribed to
Vortex) to the questions that have been raised about his review of Mills'
book, which was the "September 1996" edition provided to him by the journal.

"The summary of my review that has been forwarded back to me - presumably
originating from vortex - says 'Ibison points out simple inconsistencies and
errors in the starting mathematics, and concludes that the whole book is in
error.'

This is approximately correct. I do not pass judgment on the experimental
claims therein (since I have neither tested those claims, nor have given
time to
considering the likelihood of their compatibility with known spectroscopic
data). 
Really: I conclude that the mathematical foundation is quite incoherent.
This of course does not preclude the possibility that Mills experimental
claims for Hydrinos etc.) are correct."

Michael Ibison


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 17 09:30:24 1999
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At 11:24 AM 3/17/99 -0500, Jed Rothwell wrote:

>Jean Delagarde writes:
>	I also note that Jed said recently that he dismissed BLP
>
>Not scientifically! Please, I do not want to cause mistaken impressions
>here. I remain impressed by some of the papers in Fusion Technology and the
>claims made years ago by an engineer from Thermacore in a lecture I
>attended. It is a shame the experiments have not been widely replicated.
>They have hardly been replicated at all.


    Actually, the nickel experiments have been widely replicated.
Nickel experiments appropriately done with light water have
demonstrated excess heat.   
    More on nickel/H2O systems can be found
here:  http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html
and in the references linked there.

    Mitchell Swartz





From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 17 09:32:12 1999
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Scott, What a good start!
	What kind of signal-to-noise ratios are you getting on your Neutron
measurements, and would you describe your measurement procerdure in some
more detail?
Hank

> ----------
> From: 	Scott Little[SMTP:little eden.com]
> Reply To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
> Sent: 	Wednesday, March 17, 1999 8:03 AM
> To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
> Subject: 	Excess heat at EarthTech!
> 
> We have succeeded in creating a D+D fusion experiment that produces a
> Pout/Pin (calculated) of 1.0000000001.  Input power is 100 watts. Excess
> power is 10 nanowatts.
> 
> Read all about it at:
> 
> http://www.eden.com/~little/fusor/bigsys3.html
> 
> 
> 
> Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
> Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
> 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 17 09:42:35 1999
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From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Excess heat at EarthTech!
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At 10:03 AM 3/17/99 -0600, Scott Little wrote:
>We have succeeded in creating a D+D fusion experiment that produces a
>Pout/Pin (calculated) of 1.0000000001.  Input power is 100 watts. Excess
>power is 10 nanowatts.
>
>Read all about it at:
>
>http://www.eden.com/~little/fusor/bigsys3.html


  Scott:

  Nice set up, and page presentation.

  Was that measured power? or inferred as it seems?

  Is there a Faraday cage, or was the photo taken
within it?

       Mitchell


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Scott Little wrote:

> We have succeeded in creating a D+D fusion experiment that produces...excess
> power of 10 nanowatts.

Scott:

I know you intended a little humor/sarcasm in the above summary (for what seems
like a high class effort), but you may be selling yourself short  on your  power
and flux calculations - that is, if there is any truth to the long thread on
Vortex some months back concerning D stripping reactions at these energies.

This time you only used a fast neutron counter - whereas in your earlier effort,
if memory serves, you had access to a more sensitive BF counter (which may not
have been functioning?). Are you planning to check for thermals? Also what about
accounting for the capture cross-section of your chamber? Probably not
significant, but you could check by measuring in front of the window (the leaded
glass shouldn't matter to much as far as n,2n doubling goes, as the threshold is
much higher, but is the scintillator afected by UV ?

Probably the biggest x-factor here is that 1/36 geometry factor? Just a
guesstimate, I suppose based on the scintillator area compared with a spherical
surface area at that particular offset? From the looks of things it could be
much larger! Also, it seems that your consultant, Richard Hull, was claiming
much higher results from a less sophisticated setup some time back on the
Farnsworth web site.

Finally, what about that big background pulse? Is UT still operating that "rail
gun" down the road?

Regards,
Jones Beene

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Mitch Swartz writes:
>    Actually, the nickel experiments have been widely replicated.

Not as far as I know, or not by my standards. "Widely" means 50 to 100
people to me. I have seen only a few credible replications of Ni CF.


>    More on nickel/H2O systems can be found
>here:  http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html

I cannot read this site. It has too many special effects and moving
pictures, so it displays partial pages, or crashes or hangs my reader,
which is Internet Explorer 4, rev. 4.72.3110. Could you be a little more
specific and tell us which page within the site includes info on the Ni CF
experiments? Maybe I can skip past the intro screens.

As a general rule, I advise against using web page special effects and Java
scrip, until these products become stable . . . which should be sometime in
the 23rd century. That is also when Internet ventures like Amazon.com may
turn a profit.

- Jed

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Akira Kawasaki wrote:
> 
> March 15, 1999
> 
> Vortex,
> 
> Russ George of Saturna Technologies sent  the notice and link to the newspaper
> article that appeared today in San Francisco. The article gives reference to the
> upcoming APS presentation in Atlanta. I have taken the liberty of fowarding to
> Vortex and possible interested individuals.
> 
> > Big story in the SF paper today on SRI and cold fusion coming back to life. SRI
> > has put out some heavy official press releases which means they must have DOD
> > approval on it. Of course I am not mentioned but that's normal and OK.
> >
> > Here's the web site for the story.
> >
> > http://www.sfgate.com/technology/beat/
> >
> > This is mostly the Arata DS cathode result but not entirely. Good news no
> > matter what or how it gets out.
> >
> > Russ

This excellent article should be posted here as a matter of record:

	<><><><><><><><><><><><>

Power To The People  
The return of cold fusion  
Hal Plotkin, Special to SF Gate 

Cold fusion is back. 

On Friday, March 26, 1999, the director of Menlo Park-based SRI
International's Energy Research Center, Dr. Michael McKubre, will
present the results of SRI's 10-year, $6 million-dollar effort to
replicate the cold-fusion experiments of chemists Stanley Pons and
Martin Fleischmann. 

McKubre's startling conclusion: Pons and Fleischmann were on to
something. 

It might not be nuclear fusion, McKubre says. But a new, clean
source of power may, in fact, be on the horizon. The SRI findings
will be delivered at the centennial meeting of the American Physical
Society in Atlanta. 

In an interview last week, McKubre said he is absolutely convinced
excess heat is being produced in the SRI version of the
Pons-Fleischmann cold-fusion cells. "Somewhere between 5% to 30%,"
he says. What's more, McKubre says he and other researchers working
on cold fusion now have a better understanding of why different
cold-fusion experiments yielded different results. 

McKubre is careful not to claim, for certain, that nuclear fusion is
occurring. "All we can say for sure," he says, "is that we are
getting out more energy than we put in." McKubre is working with
theorists at MIT to fashion an understanding of exactly what is
going on at the atomic level. 

In 1989, you might recall, Pons and Fleischmann, professors of
chemistry at the University of Utah and the University of
Southampton, respectively, shocked the world with the claim they had
created nuclear fusion in a beaker at room temperature. 

Pons and Fleischmann said they generated unaccounted-for bursts of
energy after submerging an electrode made of platinum wire, and
another made of palladium, into a beaker containing an inexpensive
solution of deuterium oxide, commonly known as heavy water. 

A reaction took place within the palladium rod after they passed a
charge between the two electrodes. Pons and Fleischmann claimed a
previously unknown form of nuclear fusion was the best explanation
for why the beaker started to glow, eventually throwing off more
energy than it had consumed. 

The consequences of this discovery for society, if proven, are
enormous. If it's real, cold fusion could change everything.
Goodbye, fossil fuels. Instead, humanity would get a clean new
source of unlimited energy with no greenhouse gases. At least in
theory, we could all own our own little cold-fusion power plants one
day. Energy production would be decentralized. No more PG&E
substations. No more gas stations. No more utility bills. 

At the time Pons and Fleischmann made their announcement, the
practitioners of more mainstream hot nuclear-fusion science laughed
off their modest little $100,000 experiment. After spending billions
of dollars trying to create controlled nuclear fusion at extremely
high temperatures, the hot-fusion crowd scoffed at the idea they'd
been going about it all wrong. 

There is a lot at stake in this debate. A decade ago, the federal
government was spending upward of half a billion dollars a year on
hot fusion research, an annual investment that has since dwindled to
a still-considerable $225 million a year. Hot-fusion experiments are
costly and cumbersome, many consuming enough energy to run several
small cities. To date, none of them have had much success. 

Nonetheless, then -- as now -- almost everyone working in fusion
research gets paid to explore one part or another of the dominant
theory about how fusion works; which is that nuclear fusion is
possible only at very high temperatures. Funding work on this one
theory, and this one theory alone, is a classic recipe for the
creation of scientific group-think. When everyone "knows" the world
is flat, no one risks sailing toward the horizon. 

The conventional theorists say that since they think that what Pons
and Fleischmann claimed happened is physically impossible, it simply
could not have happened. Pons and Fleischmann were chemists, after
all. What could they possibly know about physics? Forget about the
fact, of course, that even the most omniscient physicists among us
don't understand many of the most basic facts about how our universe
works. 

The attacks on Pons and Fleischmann were incredibly vicious, perhaps
because they were seen as heretics operating outside their field of
expertise. I remember, for example, covering one scientific
gathering in Los Angeles as an editor for the public radio program,
"Marketplace." It was shortly after Pons and Fleischmann had made
their initial announcement. 

At the meeting, Pons and Fleischmann were vilified. They were
lambasted, for example, for not revealing key details about their
experiment. The beleaguered scientists responded, a bit lamely, by
contending they were vague on some points only because Pons'
employer, the University of Utah, had applied for a patent that they
had to protect. 

It was a plausible, although unsettling, explanation. Certainly not
the first time academic patent considerations obstructed scientific
progress. But it left a bad taste in the mouths of many. In
addition, some claimed Pons and Fleischmann made errors in their
measurements of the energy that went into and came out of their
cold-fusion cells. 

One prominent physicist at Cal Tech derided Pons and Fleischmann
with invectives I had never before witnessed at a scientific
gathering. I later likened it, in my nationally broadcast report, to
the kind of trash talk one hears in the build up to a heavyweight
title fight. 

But there were other voices. There was, for example, the soft-spoken
John Bockris. At the time, Bockris was a distinguished professor of
physical chemistry at Texas A&M University, and a cofounder of the
International Society for Electrochemistry. His name was revered in
the field. 

By late 1989, Bockris had replicated the Pons-Fleischmann
cold-fusion work. So had another scientist I spoke with, professor
Bob Huggins, at Stanford University. "The reaction is real," Huggins
told me at the time. "It won't go away." 

I filed three, maybe four, cold-fusion stories. Then the
counter-avalanche began. In a report in "Science" magazine in June
1990, writer Gary Taubes cast doubt on the accuracy of experiments
done in Bockris' lab and raised questions about the honesty of one
of Bockris' key associates. Others stepped forward to debunk the
work being done at Stanford and elsewhere. Taubes later wrote a
book, "Bad Science, The Short Life and Weird Times of Cold Fusion." 

One by one, influential scientists, most of them physicists on the
federal dole, denounced cold fusion as being either scientific
idiocy or outright fraud. Ronald Parker, then director of the
physics department at MIT, called cold fusion "scientific schlock."
Another prominent scientist, Dr. John Maddox, then editor of the
prestigious journal "Nature," wrote an influential editorial calling
for a halt to funding for cold-fusion research. 

Stung by criticism and the loss of support for their work, Pons and
Fleischmann drifted off into obscurity, eventually immigrating to
the south of France. 

Despite the onslaught of negative reports, I wanted to do more
stories about cold fusion. It struck me even then that many of the
researchers I had interviewed seemed quite credible. Within one year
of the first announcement, there were already at least a dozen
well-respected scientists at major academic institutions who said
they too were observing what has since come to be called "anomalous
heat" in Pons-Fleischmann cells. These scientists wanted to know
where that heat was coming from. So did I. 

Unfortunately, my colleagues on our public-radio program's editorial
staff had other ideas. By then, a consensus had already emerged:
cold fusion was junk science. I was too close to the story, I was
told. Find something else to report on. Don't make a damn fool of
yourself. 

My experience wasn't unique. The big chill set in at most major
media outlets, and stories about cold fusion were frozen out. Within
a few short months, the very words "cold fusion" would come to be
synonymous with hoax. I kept my cold-fusion file tucked away all
these years, but never reported on the subject again. 

Until now. 

I know this sounds a little like the 1996 movie, "Chain Reaction,"
where Keanu Reeves plays a brilliant scientist who nearly gets
killed by big oil operatives after he stumbles on a new energy
source. But Fleischmann, in a recent interview, one of very few
published lately, claims the primary reason cold fusion was nearly
killed in its crib was that its discovery didn't serve the interests
of major existing power structures -- be they Big Oil, Big Science,
or just Big Money. 

Fortunately, those forces didn't stop the research team at SRI who,
with help from an informal network of more than 100 other scientists
in Europe and Asia, quietly pressed on with cold-fusion experiments.
One researcher, Andy Riley, even lost his life in a hydrogen
explosion in SRI's cold-fusion research lab. His colleague, Dr.
McKubre, was also injured in the blast. Cold-fusion experiments were
also helped along by the advent of the Internet, which strengthened
collaborations and information sharing between cold-fusion
researchers. 

The work now being done on cold fusion is made even more exciting by
related findings confirming the presence of fusion by-products in
cold-fusion cells. It was the initial report of such findings,
incidentally, that led to the nearly decade long fraud investigation
of Professor Bockris and his colleagues at Texas A&M. Bockris was
eventually cleared, but only after considerable damage had been done
to his reputation. 

As a result of the personal attacks on Pons, Fleischmann, Bockris,
and others, the atmosphere of free and open inquiry that science
requires was almost completely destroyed. Fearing similar assaults,
many scientists were afraid to study the phenomena or discuss it
publicly.

Even SRI's Dr. McKubre, whose experiments are supported by taxpayer
dollars, is reluctant to say exactly which agency is sponsoring his
work. "I don't want to jeopardize our funding," he says. It's more
than remarkable that a scientist, particularly one associated with
as venerable an institution as SRI, is unwilling to talk about where
he gets his money for fear nefarious forces will cut him off at the
pockets. There's something very wrong with that picture. 

Hot-fusion theorists, meanwhile, still don't take cold-fusion claims
seriously. The Department of Energy's website offers up only a
short, derisive dismissal of cold fusion. 

Ten years ago, I concluded my last public-radio report on cold
fusion with an acknowledgment that nuclear fusion might not be the
only explanation for the excess heat observed in the
Pons-Fleischmann cells. "If it is not nuclear fusion," I closed,
"then the question remains: Exactly where is the excess heat coming
from?" 

Ten years later, we still don't know. Maybe this time around, we
might finally get some answers. 

<Silicon Valley writer and broadcaster Hal Plotkin's columns will
continue to be published by SF Gate despite his fascination with
cold fusion.>

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Several replies in one:

At 09:30 3/17/99 -0800, Scudder, Henry J wrote:

>What kind of signal-to-noise ratios are you getting on your Neutron
>measurements,

10:1 right now....I can probably lower the bkg without lowering the
foreground by raising the discriminator a bit...will be trying that soon.

>and would you describe your measurement procerdure in some
>more detail?

Well, as you can see from the photo, I've just positioned the 2" diameter
detector near the vacuum chamber, 3" from the center of it.  That works out
to a gemoetric efficiency of 1/36.  The walls of the chamber are about
0.090" thick SS304 so they stop all the soft x-rays coming from the plasma
inside.  I have confirmed this with a Geiger counter.

You can read a little about the BC-720 fast neutron scintillator on
Bicron's web page at http://www.bicron.com/bc720.htm .   For me, it was
real simple to use since I already had the PM tube and support electronics
ready to go.  I made a thin Al cap (0.030" thick) for the scintillator and
coupled it to the tube and taped up everything properly with black tape to
exclude light.  Also, the PM tube is shielded with two layers of Netic and
Co-netic shielding to reduce magnetic field interference.

I use the detector as an indicator of the reaction intensity.  First I
evacuate the chamber fully and apply 24,000 volts across the grids.  Then I
isolate the chamber from the vacuum pump and begin admitting D2 gas.  At a
pressure of about 15 millitorr, the discharge ignites and begins drawing
too much current, which drags the HV supply down to around 16 kV.  I then
close off the D2 valve and crack the vacuum valve to reduce the pressure a
little.  As the pressure goes down, so does the current and the voltage
goes up.  When the voltage reaches about 19 kV, I start to see counts on
the detector.  An o'scope attached shows that they are BIG pulses....much
bigger than the pulses that gammas make.  

Mitchell wrote:

>Nice set up, and page presentation.

Thanks

>Was that measured power? or inferred as it seems?

Calculated from the neutron emission rate.  Our calorimetry is good but not
THAT good....:)

>Is there a Faraday cage, or was the photo taken within it?

Other than the all-metal vacuum chamber (the viewport has a metal screen
across it) there is no cage.  The picture was taken from where I usually
sit...about 2-3 feet from the chamber.  BTW, calculated neutron dose rate
there is 0.03 mrem/hr...very much OK.

Jones Beene wrote:

>I know you intended a little humor/sarcasm....but you may be selling
yourself short on your  power and flux calculations

Possibly, I have assumed only the standard D+D reactions.

>This time you only used a fast neutron counter - earlier you had access to
a more sensitive BF counter.

It was a 3He counter.  I still have it but it appears to be 140 times less
sensitive to fast neutrons than the BC-720.  I suspect that something is
wrong with it...I'm working with Tom Claytor to sort this out.  Yes, I will
make an effort to look for thermal neutrons soon.

>is the scintillator afected by UV ?

Nope, it's behind about 1.5mm of Al...in the dark.

>Probably the biggest x-factor here is that 1/36 geometry factor? Just a
>guesstimate....

A 2" diameter detector located 3" from a point source has precisely a 1/36
geometry factor.

>Finally, what about that big background pulse? Is UT still operating that
"rail gun" down the road?

Yep!...but surely that is not the source of these pulses...:)



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

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At 02:01 PM 3/17/99 -0500, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>Mitch Swartz writes:
>>    Actually, the nickel experiments have been widely replicated.
>
>Not as far as I know, or not by my standards. "Widely" means 50 to 100
>people to me. I have seen only a few credible replications of Ni CF.

    There have been several.   And many configurations as I 
reviewed at ICCF7, Jed.

  ==========================================

>>    More on nickel/H2O systems can be found
>>here:  http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html
>
>I cannot read this site. It has too many special effects and moving
>pictures, so it displays partial pages, or crashes or hangs my reader,
>which is Internet Explorer 4, rev. 4.72.3110.

  Golly Jed.  I tried that application, and it worked.
  Sorry that your system has a room temperature IQ but
it seems to load on IE 4.72.3110.

   And those moving pictures are GIFs, Jed. 

  ==========================================


> Could you be a little more
>specific and tell us which page within the site includes info on the Ni CF
>experiments? Maybe I can skip past the intro screens.

   Seems I even sent issues of Cold Fusion Times reviewing 
quite a few of these in the past.  Those would be a good
place to start your search.  

    Mitchell Swartz


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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Opinion on Mill's Work
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990317153626.0075b84c world.std.com>
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Mitch writes:

>
>    There have been several.   And many configurations as I 
>reviewed at ICCF7, Jed.

"Several" is unclear. How many is "several"? Five? Twenty?


>>I cannot read this site. It has too many special effects and moving
>>pictures, so it displays partial pages, or crashes or hangs my reader,
>>which is Internet Explorer 4, rev. 4.72.3110.
>
>  Golly Jed.  I tried that application, and it worked.

Well, it don't work with mine. Some screens are half written and it hangs
up. HOWEVER, this might be because I have attached Microsoft's latest
Japanese language extensions (so I can read Japanese home pages), and I
also upgraded to the other latest bells and whistles on the MS site, so I
have a cutting edge version. That means it is probably unstable. Also . . .
the page might display eventually but I am impatient with misbehaving
software. I give it the three finger salute (Ctr - Alt - Del) as soon as it
slows or hangs. Norton Crash Guard works like a whiz to knock out screwed
up programs with no ill effects on the other Win 98 processes.


>  Sorry that your system has a room temperature IQ . . .

Actually this Dell is the best computer I have ever operated, and I have
operated many. Dozens! Several, even.


>   And those moving pictures are GIFs, Jed. 

Yeah, of course, but they don't move, they hang.


>   Seems I even sent issues of Cold Fusion Times reviewing 
>quite a few of these in the past.

You mean paper. Obsolete media. As programmer say, you can't Grep wood
pulp. On the other hand, it doesn't freeze up when you turn the page.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 17 16:20:22 1999
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At 06:07 PM 3/17/99 -0500, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>>   Seems I even sent issues of Cold Fusion Times reviewing 
>>quite a few of these in the past.
>
>You mean paper. Obsolete media.

  LOL.    Like "Infinite Energy"?   
  Why do you bother to publish on paper then, Jed?




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 17 17:02:50 1999
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Subject: Infinite Energy Magazine 10th Anniv. Issue
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 99 19:57:10 -0000
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                                              ******PRESS RELEASE******

For Immediate Release:    March 17, 1999

For more information please contact: 					                                           
Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief
Infinite Energy Magazine

                         March 23, 1999
Cold Fusion Celebrates Ten Years of
Revolutionary Science and Technology

Infinite Energy Magazine publishes Tenth Anniversary Issue ‹
Includes a "Special Report: MIT and Cold Fusion"

The news about cold fusion from the University of Utah on March 23, 1989  was greeted with astonishment worldwide.  Drs. Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons had claimed that an electrochemical cell with heavy water electrolyte and a palladium cathode gave

 rise to so much excess energy that the mysterious phenomenon had to be nuclear, and was probably a process related to nuclear fusion.  Many scientists quickly took sides for or against cold fusion‹mostly against.  By the end of the summer of 1989 the ³ex

perts² claimed cold fusion didn¹t exist.  They said it was an experimental error and could not be reproduced.  Actually, the story had barely begun.  Provocative research never ended.  Cold fusion was and is very much alive, and has been confirmed in hund

reds of experiments performed in many countries. The current issue of Infinite Energy magazine lists the top thirty-four papers and their provocative scientific conclusions that substantiate a broad class of cold fusion phenomena. Significant commercial e

fforts are underway toward developing this revolutionary new clean energy source and the other discoveries it inspired. The new field of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR)‹nuclear transmutation at low energy‹has been born.

On the Tenth Anniversary of the Cold Fusion announcement, Infinite Energy magazine clarifies one of the most intense controversies in the history of science with its Special Tenth Anniversary of Cold Fusion Issue (128 pages). Many cold fusion scientists, 

including pioneer Dr. Martin Fleischmann, provide their views of the past decade and the future of cold fusion. The Anniversary Issue also features a fifty-five page Special Report: MIT and Cold Fusion. This meticulously documented report proves that the 

U.S. Department of Energy¹s rush-to-judgment negative report in 1989 relied, in part, on a highly flawed cold fusion experiment performed at the MIT Plasma Fusion Center. Hot fusion scientists there feared loss of their continued Federal support if cold f

usion gained currency. The MIT PFC conducted a so-called ³negative² experiment that was first to be cited by the U.S. Department of Energy in its influential, disastrous report.

Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, MIT graduate and Editor-in-Chief of Infinite Energy, who wrote the Special Report, concludes: ³The energy and environmental future of the world hung in the balance‹and the MIT Plasma Fusion Center people failed us. They preferred to

 get rid of a scientific claim in which they did not believe, and which threatened their federally funded program, by playing politics with the media, trivializing their experiments, and ultimately foisting on the world highly flawed data‹some would say f

raudulently represented data‹from a calorimetry experiment ostensibly performed to determine scientific truth.² Mallove implicates MIT President Charles M. Vest and others of participating in an unconscionable whitewash of serious scientific misconduct th

at occurred on a federally funded research project.
 
 #END#

Infinite Enegy Magazine
P.O. Box 2816,  Concord, NH 03302-2816  Ph: 603-228-4516   Fx: 603-224-5975
e-mail:    editor infinite-energy.com	
http://www.infinite-energy.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 17 19:29:23 1999
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Scott wrote:

We have succeeded in creating a D+D fusion experiment that produces a
Pout/Pin (calculated) of 1.0000000001.  Input power is 100 watts. Excess
power is 10 nanowatts.

Read all about it at:

http://www.eden.com/~little/fusor/bigsys3.html

Henry J Scudder wrote:

What kind of signal-to-noise ratios are you getting on your Neutron
measurements,

Scott wrote:

10:1 right now....

Mitchell wrote:

Was that measured power? or inferred as it seems?

Scott wrote:

Calculated from the neutron emission rate.
Our calorimetry is good but not THAT good....:)

Scott wrote on the above web page:

EarthTech's Farnsworth Fusor ...
Thus the total energy yield per emitted neutron is about 7 MeV.

Hi Scott,

Congratulations on your success with the Farnsworth Fusor.
Don't you need to know the total energy yield per emitted neutron 
to more precision than "about 7 Mev" since your conclusion
is based on counting neutrons?

Jack Smith


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 17 19:31:40 1999
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Scott,
Nice experiment and good design setup!  What are your future plans with the
fusor?  Higher voltage, different electrode geometry?
Regards,     Michael


>We have succeeded in creating a D+D fusion experiment that produces a
>Pout/Pin (calculated) of 1.0000000001.  Input power is 100 watts. Excess
>power is 10 nanowatts.
>
>Read all about it at:
>
>http://www.eden.com/~little/fusor/bigsys3.html
>
>
>
>Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
>Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
>512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)
>
>


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 17 21:06:10 1999
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Subject: Re: Excess heat at EarthTech!
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At 10:15 PM 3/17/99 +0000, Taylor J. Smith wrote:

>Congratulations on your success with the Farnsworth Fusor.
>Don't you need to know the total energy yield per emitted neutron 
>to more precision than "about 7 Mev" since your conclusion
>is based on counting neutrons?

That depends upon what you consider significant.  Suppose the energy yield
per emitted neutron was 14 Mev instead of 7.  That would change the
Pout/Pin ratio from 1.0000000001 to 1.0000000002.  Do you think that would
be enuf to get me a $10 million government hot fusion grant?...<g>

P.S. The actual value is 7.3 MeV if both D+D reactions have equal probability.

mrand access" <mrand@iols.net> wrote:

>What are your future plans with the
>fusor?  Higher voltage, different electrode geometry?

Good question.  Actually the main reason we built the fusor was to provide
a source of neutrons so we could learn to detect neutrons properly.  We
hope to use this ability in some upcoming experiments with charge clusters.
 First we would like to prove that charge clusters actually exist.
Shoulders did an amazing amount of experimental work with them but, to
date, very few people accept their existence.


Scott Little 
EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 17 22:10:13 1999
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Scott,
>>>
> First we would like to prove that charge clusters actually exist.
>Shoulders did an amazing amount of experimental work with them but, to
>date, very few people accept their existence.

Great!  Shoulders' work spans several decades.  What aspect of his research
will you pursue?  Will he be involved, offer assistance or input to your
experiments?
Regards, Michael


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 17 23:14:53 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: recombination
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At 4:00 PM 3/15/99, Scott Little wrote:
[snip]
>Now, let's double the area of these plates by extended them only in the
>horizontal direction.  Can we now double the cell current (i.e. keep the
>same current density) and expect to observe the same X percent recombination?

I think Scott's point is well taken here.  The above is the same as
creating more cells in parallel.  If a cell produces x percent
recombination, N identical cells in parallel will still create x percent
recombination, while using N*I current.  For the wider cell with equivalent
electrode area to not act like cells in parallel requires some kind of
synergistic effect for which I can see no basis.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 18 00:01:16 1999
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Subject: Re: Excess heat at EarthTech!
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At 11:06 PM 3/17/99, Scott Little wrote:
>At 10:15 PM 3/17/99 +0000, Taylor J. Smith wrote:
>
>>Congratulations on your success with the Farnsworth Fusor.
>>Don't you need to know the total energy yield per emitted neutron
>>to more precision than "about 7 Mev" since your conclusion
>>is based on counting neutrons?
>
>That depends upon what you consider significant.  Suppose the energy yield
>per emitted neutron was 14 Mev instead of 7.  That would change the
>Pout/Pin ratio from 1.0000000001 to 1.0000000002.  Do you think that would
>be enuf to get me a $10 million government hot fusion grant?...<g>
>
>P.S. The actual value is 7.3 MeV if both D+D reactions have equal probability.
[snip]


Here we have another rabid true bliever excessively optimistic claim of
free energy!  8^)  I'll bet most of those neutrons carry less than 3 MeV!
What you have is a big stripper that redifines the word "robust".  8^)

Nice job, as usual.  Thanks for sharing it with us.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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Just a test.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 18 05:59:44 1999
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Subject: Re: Opinion on Mill's Work
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990317190715.00758ce4 world.std.com>
References: <3.0.1.32.19990317180740.007af100 pop.mindspring.com>
 <3.0.1.32.19990317153626.0075b84c world.std.com>
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Mitch asks:

>  LOL.    Like "Infinite Energy"?   
>  Why do you bother to publish on paper then, Jed?

Because you cannot charge for internet publications! Everything is free.
That's the worst thing about the internet today. What we need is a simple
way to charge willing customers for information they download. It should
cost maybe $0.10 per page, the same as the paper version, and the charges
should be added to the monthly bill. Until there is some reliable,
universal method of collecting royalties, internet publishing will not take
off. That's what Arthur Clarke said in a lecture a few years ago at CNN. I
agree. In the meanwhile, since recorded music is always published in
digital format, the internet is causing havoc in the music industry. A kid
I know at Georgia Tech has hundreds of pirated songs downloaded to her disk.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 18 06:10:35 1999
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Subject: Re: Opinion on Mill's Work
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990318085528.007bebd0 pop.mindspring.com> from Jed Rothwell at "Mar 18, 99 08:55:28 am"
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Jed wrote:
> A kid I know at Georgia Tech has hundreds of pirated songs downloaded to
> her disk.

Hmm, we used to "download" hundreds of songs to audio cassette tapes --
back in the stone age.  The music industry seemed to survive that. 

-- 
 - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com  --  651-633-8928 -
 - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA -
 -   WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan    -

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At 21:59 3/17/99 -0800, mrand access wrote:

>Great!  Shoulders' work spans several decades.  What aspect of his research
>will you pursue?

That will depend upon how far we get.  Proving that charge clusters really
exist, in a manner acceptable to the likes of Physical Review, will be an
enormous first step.

>Will he be involved, offer assistance or input to your
>experiments?

I hope so.



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 18 07:49:21 1999
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Weren't Millikan's "Oil Drops", Charge Clusters,Scott?

Regards,   Frederick

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Hal Plotkin is quoted:

	But there were other voices. There was, for example, the soft-spoken
	John Bockris.

Plotkin does not know Bockris well. Bockris is anything but soft-spoken. He
is outspoken! He is noisy, aggressive, and a slave driver according to his
students. He he is one of the best conference chairmen I know. He keeps
discussion rolling.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 18 08:00:30 1999
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This is way off topic and I should transfer it to Vortex-BL, but I'll just
hit the response key here and answer John Logajan:

>Hmm, we used to "download" hundreds of songs to audio cassette tapes --
>back in the stone age.  The music industry seemed to survive that. 

There is a huge difference. Even a person with a tin-ear (like me) can hear
that the fidelity of an audio cassette copy is degraded. The original LPs
or factory  cassette tapes were much better than the copies, and a copy of
a copy was not worth listening to. However, with digital recordings, the
copy is exactly the same as the original, and a 10th generation or 100th
generation copy is just as good. So a song passed to from your friend's
friend's friend sounds just as good as the one you purchase at the store.

This problem is causing widespread conniptions in the recording industry,
according to the New York Times. (I do not think the Times used the word
"conniptions" but that is what they meant.)

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 18 08:08:55 1999
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Subject: Re: Excess heat at EarthTech!
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Glad to have the opportunity to categorize Scott Little into the true
believer class.  Figured I better take the chance lest it never come again!
8^)

Scott, do you have a means of getting neutron energy spectra?  Either
looking for gammas characteristic of fusion or high neutron energy levels
are the only ways to determine the percentage of stripped neutrons, right?


Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 18 08:42:52 1999
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From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 <MH2_BRIGGS ODNVMS.A1.Ohio.Gov>
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Scott,

What are the combined error tolerances of the instruments you are using for 
measurement?  Even if calibrated properly normal tolerance variations could 
throw things off, especially at such low levels.  If your input reading is
just a tad low, and your output a tad high, well you get my drift.  That's 
why instrument tolerances are additive when evaluating your results.

I worked on a laboratory blast furnace project once were the client had 
specified instruments of +-1% error tolerance.  Running the runtime data
through the calculations, that they also provided, with only a .1% error 
it would cause the results to differ by as much as 30%.  Be careful with 
your formulas, run them through with fixed error values to see how much 
tolerance levels will throw of your results.

Take it from someone who got stuck living out of a motel for six months 
cleaning up after the so called experts.

Bill
webriggs concentric.net

>We have succeeded in creating a D+D fusion experiment that produces a
>Pout/Pin (calculated) of 1.0000000001.  Input power is 100 watts. Excess
>power is 10 nanowatts.
>Read all about it at:
>http://www.eden.com/~little/fusor/bigsys3.html

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 18 09:57:27 1999
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From: BriggsRO aol.com
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Gene,

Do you know who the Secretary of Energy was at the time of the MIT fraud.  The
original Secretary, Bob Seamans, is now a senior lecturer in the Aero dept. at
good old MIT.  When your article is published, maybe I'll rub his nose in it a
little.  I owe him one.

Bob Briggs

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 18 15:36:01 1999
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>Gene,
>
>Do you know who the Secretary of Energy was at the time of the MIT fraud.  
>The
>original Secretary, Bob Seamans, is now a senior lecturer in the Aero 
>dept. at
>good old MIT.  When your article is published, maybe I'll rub his nose in 
>it a
>little.  I owe him one.
>
>Bob Briggs


The Secreary of Energy was Admiral James Watkins.

I do not think Seamans had anything to do with DoE.

Gene

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 18 15:49:20 1999
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Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:43:39 -0600
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From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: Excess heat at EarthTech!
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At 07:12 3/18/99 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote:

>Scott, do you have a means of getting neutron energy spectra?  Either
>looking for gammas characteristic of fusion or high neutron energy levels
>are the only ways to determine the percentage of stripped neutrons, right?

No I don't have any decent neutron spectroscopy.  Surely there are some
stripped neutrons....but they can hardly be expected to have MeV energies.
In fact, they will have energies on the order of the accelerating
potential...i.e. 20 keV.  The detector I'm using is insensitive to such
slow neutrons.

Bill Briggs wrote:

>What are the combined error tolerances of the instruments you are using for 
>measurement?

First, the only measurement I'm making to infer excess heat is the neutron
count.  I do measure the input power electrically (~100 watts) just to get
a rough idea of what it is but then I assume that EXACTLY 100% of the input
power is converted into heat inside the system.  I then add onto that, the
calculated fusion energy production rate of 10 nanowatts to get my Pout/Pin
ratio of 1.0000000001.  So the errors don't combine in the usual way.

In other words, I'm NOT saying that I measured two independent quantities
and ratioed them to get 1.0000000001.  That would be ridiculous...at least
for my kind of measurements.



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

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From: John Logajan <jlogajan skypoint.com>
Message-Id: <199903190034.SAA28938 mirage.skypoint.com>
Subject: Re: Opinion on Mill's Work
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990318105710.007b2ea0 pop.mindspring.com> from Jed Rothwell at "Mar 18, 99 10:57:10 am"
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Jed wrote:
> There is a huge difference. Even a person with a tin-ear (like me) can hear
> that the fidelity of an audio cassette copy is degraded. The original LPs
> or factory  cassette tapes were much better than the copies, and a copy of
> a copy was not worth listening to. However, with digital recordings, the
> copy is exactly the same as the original, and a 10th generation or 100th
> generation copy is just as good. So a song passed to from your friend's
> friend's friend sounds just as good as the one you purchase at the store.

If this kid you know had "hundreds of songs" on her disk drive, they are
likely MP3 compressed -- a data "lossy" format.  I have to trust reviewers
on this, since my hearing degrades after 750Hz, but many claim that 
MP3, the most popular internet format, is pretty crappy, audiophile wise.

The real question is whether your young friend would have bought hundreds
of songs if she couldn't download them.  The answer, at least in my
old days case, was that we probably would not have.

-- 
 - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com  --  651-633-8928 -
 - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA -
 -   WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan    -

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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Excess heat at EarthTech!
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 02:20:14 GMT
Organization: Improving
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On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:43:39 -0600, Scott Little wrote:
[snip]
>No I don't have any decent neutron spectroscopy.  Surely there are some
>stripped neutrons....but they can hardly be expected to have MeV energies.
>In fact, they will have energies on the order of the accelerating
>potential...i.e. 20 keV.  The detector I'm using is insensitive to such
>slow neutrons.
[snip]
Scott,

Doesn't the above imply that the actual stripping process not require
any (or very little) energy? AFAIK you need about 2.2 MeV to strip a
neutron from a deuteron. This energy would need to derive from
absorption of the remaining proton into another nucleus. Furthermore,
such an absorption (essentially a fusion reaction), always leaves at the
very least a few hundred keV excess, and usually on the order of several
MeV. Since the neutron is the light weight member of the resultant
particles, it should almost always end up with most of that energy.

Now what have I missed?


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 18 17:53:40 1999
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Subject: Re: Excess heat at EarthTech!
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At 02:20 AM 3/19/99 GMT, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

>Doesn't the above imply that the actual stripping process not require
>any (or very little) energy?

I'm afraid I was naively assuming that.

>AFAIK you need about 2.2 MeV to strip a
>neutron from a deuteron.

Apparently I don't understand this stripping hypothesis at all, then.  Can
you explain how my 20 kV glow discharge in D2 gas might cause stripping of
the neutrons from the deuterons...if there were no D+D fusions going on?

My main interest in this stripping is simply to rule it out as a possible
source of the neutrons I'm observing.  I want to verify that they are
coming from the D+D fusion reaction.

Thanks


Scott Little 
EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

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At 5:43 PM 3/18/99, Scott Little wrote:
>At 07:12 3/18/99 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote:
>
>>Scott, do you have a means of getting neutron energy spectra?  Either
>>looking for gammas characteristic of fusion or high neutron energy levels
>>are the only ways to determine the percentage of stripped neutrons, right?
>
>No I don't have any decent neutron spectroscopy.  Surely there are some
>stripped neutrons....but they can hardly be expected to have MeV energies.
>In fact, they will have energies on the order of the accelerating
>potential...i.e. 20 keV.  The detector I'm using is insensitive to such
>slow neutrons.


Oh, that's right, and probably rapidly thermalized too.

The stripped neutrons should outnumber the fusion neutrons by a large
amount since the high 20 Kev end should just represent a small fraction of
the D2 collisions, right?  The stripping reactions go all the way down to
around 2 KeV.  Also at 20 KeV the collisions don't have to be nearly as
head-on to perform stripping as fusion.

If you put some silver in front of your counter you might get some gamma
counts from the slow neutrons?  You may have a bunch of them.

The good news is you may have enormously underestimated the energy
producing (potential) of your device.  Wrap in uranium and you may up your
output by a four or five orders of magnitude.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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At 05:16 PM 3/18/99 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote:

>...The stripping reactions go all the way down to
>around 2 KeV.

but Robin says:

>AFAIK you need about 2.2 MeV to strip a
>neutron from a deuteron.

Well....at least we've got it bracketed....<g>


Scott Little 
EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

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>At 05:16 PM 3/18/99 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote:
>>...The stripping reactions go all the way down to
>>around 2 KeV.
>
>but Robin says:
>>AFAIK you need about 2.2 MeV to strip a
>>neutron from a deuteron.
>
At 08:15 PM 3/18/99 -0600, Scott Little wrote:
>Well....at least we've got it bracketed....<g>


   They are relatively unstable nuclei, and for the
most part remnant from the "big bang".  
Reviewed their states, and lability, with refs, in 
"Possible Deuterium Production From Light 
water excess enthalpy experiments using Nickel 
Cathodes", Journal of New Energy, 3, 68-80(1996).

     Mitchell Swartz


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To: Vortex

After careful study (about 1/2 hour)I conclude that the Air-Sea Water Mixing
causes the formation of Quasineutrons or Quasideuterons with about 13.6 ev
released when a Proton or Deuteron in the Sea Water "absorbs" the neutrino.

The obvious affinity between the positive charge of the proton or deuteron
for the slightly negative "Thermalized" neutrino with a velocity of about
1/3 the speed-of-light results in a slight reduction in total charge for the
composite, thus with an electron attached the net charge is slightly
negative, which allows this "weak ion" to diffuse upward in the "Fair
Weather Field", which gives "Cyclones-Vortices" their energy.

The numbers supporting the Neutrino Proton-Deuteron interaction have been
posted previously and are in the vortex archives.

DISCLAIMER: I RESERVE THE RIGHT TO BE JUST AS CRAZY AS ANYONE ELSE ON THIS
LIST! :-)

Regards,  Frederick

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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

> AFAIK you need about 2.2 MeV to strip a neutron from a deuteron...now what
> have I missed?

Last  year there was an extended exchange on Vortex - on the subject of deuteron
stripping. Back then, I pieced together for my own use a long file from Vortex
and various other sources - from which I am enclosing some extracts.

I have lost track of who said what, but it seems that the most interesting
factual material came from Robert I. Eachus and the most interesting speculation
from Horace Heffner:

So here is some relevant info on D stripping. First, from Science News May 2,
1998: Deuteron Structure:

...To understand the interactions that determine the size and shape of an
atomic nucleus, it helps to have a detailed picture of the simplest possible
combination: a proton bound to a neutron. Known as a deuteron,  this simple
nucleus has roughly the same dumbbell structure as a  molecule consisting of two
atoms. The protons and the neutrons are  themselves made up to another is
carried by particles known as gluons.

The relatively weak attractive force that holds together the
deuteron -- or any other atomic nucleus -- arises from residual
interactions between quarks in individual protons and neutrons.

In recent years, physicists have studied the characteristics of the
nuclear binding force by firing electrons at nuclei. Increasing the
electron energy enables them to probe deeper into these nuclear
systems. At a sufficiently high energy, theorists predict, signs of the
strong, gluon-mediated binding between quarks should become apparent....
Preliminary results indicate that... contrary to some theoretical predictions,
the deuteron  can be adequately described as consisting of two particles
loosely  bound together. "We don't have to worry about the quarks and gluons,"
notes team member Elizabeth Beise of the University of Maryland at  College
Park. The findings have already stimulated new work  to produce improved models
of nuclear behavior.

Stripping: an abbreviated explanation of "stripping"
The proton and neutron in deuterium are rather loosely bound.  In fact, if you
flip the spin of one of the nucleons, the deuteron can fall apart. The 2.23 Mev
binding energy of the neutron in D is far more easily broken than the numbers
would suggest. "Stripping" can occur in plasmas as cold as 1.0 ev. and Deuterium
can decay to p + p + e- directly.

Deuterium has spin 1, since if the two bosons have unaligned spins, the total
binding energy is (slightly) negative.  That is what I meant by falls apart, the
particles are nearly unbound. In the quark model of deuterium, it can be
envisioned as a pulsating dumbbell, containing six quarks, three up and three
down. But the pion exchanges which bind the nucleus together change which end of
the dumbbell contains the proton.  Or the better way to look at it, how the
charge is distributed in the nucleus.)

What apparently happens is that the uncharged end of the dumbbell can get very
close to another nucleus -- it is attracted both by second order coulomb effects
and by the strong force.  If and when the bond breaks though, it is often the
neutron that breaks free, and the proton is absorbed.  But again, the wrong way
to look at it -- pion exchanges with the target nucleus both cause the breakup
and determine the makeup of the unabsorbed particle.

So you need both the physical model of the deuterium nucleus -- one of the
largest, but only in one dimension -- and the quark/pion model which says that
any charged pion interaction between a deuteron and another nuclei must cause
the deuteron to decompose.

Deuterium can decay to p + p + e- directly (~1.5 MeV), but the real difference
from all other nuclei is that the effective distance between the two bosons, and
the low electric charge makes it effectively loosely bound.  Heisenberg's door
is open wide enough for weak and EM interactions, possibly even neutrinos, to
supply the missing energy for a "spontaneous" decay.

In the early days of Hot Fusion research they bombarded "Heavy Ice" with
deuterons in order  to knock off neutrons (requires 2.23 Mev separation energy).
With 500,000 ev bombarding deuterons the neutron yield was 1 in 200,000 and at
100,000 ev deuteron bombarding energy 1 in 10,000,000.

In any case, experience has shown that any paper that assumes that
fissioning deuterium requires MeV level center of mass energies is wrong. If you
don't believe me, aim a 20 keV beam of deuterons at a metal target, count the
neutrons.  You don't have to worry about 3 sigma over background, you'll be
closer to 3000 sigma.  Of course, you will probably up the background by neutron
activation -- select your target carefully. Don't forget to use plenty of
paraffin blocks and wear your film badge.

Now throw a beam of deuterons at an appropriate target, well below the center of
mass energy needed to split the deuterons.  You will get a high incidence of
cases where the proton is absorbed by the target while the neutron sails merrily
on its way.  The path taken in most of these events is that the deuteron
spontaneously (and virtually) decomposes, then the proton is absorbed by the
target, releasing enough energy to more than bring the Heisenberg books into
balance.

For typical targets, the net energy released by the process is around ten MeV.
(As I remember it, aluminum is an excellent target.  Beryllium is better, but
only because it contributes further neutrons, and Lithium is the best: Li7 + p
--> 2 He4 + energy.)  Significant neutrons from stripping have been seen with
average plasma temperatures in the 1 eV range, but the actual particles involved
are "runaways" in the 10+ keV range (the very tail end of the distribution) ,

The neutrons from D stripping are thermal. The energy value of neutrons lies not
in their own momentum but in the fact that thermal neutron induced reactions in
suitable elements releases from 2 to 200 MeV. A neutron beam with suitable
kinetic energy can multiply neutron counts by n,2n reaction in lead, lithium and
beryllium, re: n + 7Li --> 6Li + 2 n. But these neutrons do not arise from
stripping. If it were not for the fact that these n,2n reactions are
endothermic, all the worldís energy problems would have been solved fifty years
ago.

Flipping the spin of the proton in a deuteron could be enough to induce fission
in the D2 nucleus.  The problem then, to harness this reaction, is to find the
strongest and/or most efficient possible method for flipping the spin of the
proton relative to the neutron- or possibly a combined or cascading
interaction.  Since a near miss of a nucleus by an electron, or a hit by an
insufficiently energetic electron, would tend to excite the D nucleus, it is
reasonable to think a series of two or more such interactions, provided they
were separated by short enough duration, would be additive in effect.

The presence of a strong magnetic field should amplify the effects of
stagewise excitement by increasing the spin angle between the proton and
neutron.  A fusor type device could be operated in a strong, or time varying
magnetic field with a frequency matching the nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR)
frequency for the field strength employed might be just the ticket.

Some References:
Here are stripping/ self-targeting events with a 25 kV deuteron beam:
# Zelenskii VF, Rybalko VF, Morozov AN, Tolstolutskaya GD, Kulish VG, Pistryak
SV, Martynov IS;    Vopr. At. Nauki Tekh., Ser.: Fiz. Radiats. Povrezhdenii
Radiats. Materialoved. 1990(1)(52) 65.   (in Russian).
"Experiments on cold nuclear fusion in Pd and Ti saturated with deuterium by ion
implantation".

Pd and Ti targets were loaded with deuterium by means of a D2+ ion beam at 25
keV, 30-40 microamp, at 100K. The loaded targets were then warmed up to
1200-1300K and emissions monitored: neutrons by a boron-containing detector,
charged particles (cp's) by a surface barrier detector, and gas emissions with
masses 1..6 by a mass spectrometer (MS), to detect possible production of(3)He,
T, protons. Another neutron monitor was placed at 4 m from theexperiment, to
monitor the background. Neutron emission intensity depended on the temperature:
for Pd, they were max. at 100-400K and 900-1300K, for Ti at100-300K and
600-1200K, with highs up to twice background, meaning about 100n/s. Cp's were
observed only during charging, i.e. these must have been fromself-targeting. MS
detected no masses in the range 1..6 during warming up. The authors conclude
that dd-fusion occurred and point to" fracto-fusion" as the likely mechanism.

Note that fracto-fusion is another version of the same deuterium song. And
incidently, remember all the "cluster fusion" hoopla that turned out to be
self-targeting of deuterium?   The results only looked anomalous to someone with
no experience with deuteron beams:

Further work is in progress. Beuhler RJ, Friedlander G, Friedman L;     Phys.
Rev. Lett. 63 (1989) 1292. "Cluster-impact fusion".
Singly-(+)-charged clusters of D2O of from 25-1300 molecules in sizewere shot at
TiD with an energy of 325 keV and some fusion was observed.The primary signature
of the fusion was protons at 3.0 MeV from the reactionD + D --> H + T, the best
yield being from clusters of about 200 molecules.The fusion is assumed to be due
to compressional heating of the top 10 or so layers of TiD.

'Stress induced fusion': In 1986 cold fusion was reported in LiD crystals that
when sharply struck were reported to eject MeV neutrons This work has not yet
been confirmed (as of 1995).  The same researchers later showed that shock
treatment of titanium or palladium deuterated metals also produced neutrons.
-Derjaguin et al. LiD crystals struck giving rise to MeV neutrons emitted (shock
destruction)
1.  Derjaguin, B. V. et al. Sov. Colloid J. 48, 12 (1986).
2.  Kluyev, V. A. et al. Sov. J. tech. Phys. Lett. 12, 1333  (1986).
-neutrons due to electrostatic accelerations of d+ in the cracks of the
crystal.[Cohen, J. S. & Davies, J. D. Nature 338, 705-706 (1989).]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -





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-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: Excess heat at EarthTech!

Scott Little wrote:


>At 05:16 PM 3/18/99 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote:
>
>>...The stripping reactions go all the way down to
>>around 2 KeV.
>
>but Robin says:
>
>>AFAIK you need about 2.2 MeV to strip a
>>neutron from a deuteron.
>
>Well....at least we've got it bracketed....<g>

The "Stipping Reactions" occur easily at a 1.0 kev or less. Robert eachus
claimed that "they even occur in plasmas as colr as 0.5 ev!. They are seen
in the the "Tokamaks" at 500 ev, that is what has teased HOT FUSION for all
these years.  :-)

You can get them (stripping neutrons) by running a sparkplug immersed in
Diesel Fuel at 4.0 Kev.

Regards,  Frederick
>
>
>Scott Little
>EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
>512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX)
>little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little
>
>

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Subject: Question about charge clusters
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	Dear Folks,

	I must have missed something.  What is the discussion of charge 
clusters and what work is being doen and-or attempted?

					J 

On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Scott Little wrote:

> At 21:59 3/17/99 -0800, mrand access wrote:
> 
> >Great!  Shoulders' work spans several decades.  What aspect of his research
> >will you pursue?
> 
> That will depend upon how far we get.  Proving that charge clusters really
> exist, in a manner acceptable to the likes of Physical Review, will be an
> enormous first step.
> 
> >Will he be involved, offer assistance or input to your
> >experiments?
> 
> I hope so.
> 
> 
> 
> Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
> Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
> 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)
> 

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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Excess heat at EarthTech!
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At 7:43 PM 3/18/99, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>The "Stipping Reactions" occur easily at a 1.0 kev or less. Robert eachus
>claimed that "they even occur in plasmas as colr as 0.5 ev!.

You don't get many reactions down at the lower energies though, right?
Practically nonexistant.

>They are seen
>in the the "Tokamaks" at 500 ev, that is what has teased HOT FUSION for all
>these years.  :-)

I think it was the Stellerator where they teased first.

>
>You can get them (stripping neutrons) by running a sparkplug immersed in
>Diesel Fuel at 4.0 Kev.

Mac truck cylinders must be neutron activated!  8^)

Not much I bet.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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-----Original Message-----
From: Horace Heffner <hheffner mtaonline.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: Excess heat at EarthTech!


Horace wrote:
Snip.
>
>You don't get many reactions down at the lower energies though, right?

Right.


>Practically nonexistant.

One per/day is a lot if you get struck by lighhtning. :-)
>
>I think it was the Stellerator where they teased first.

Actually it was the "Columbus II" Pinch experiments in D2 gas. Deuterium was
several hundred dollars/gram at that time.
>
>Mac truck cylinders must be neutron activated!  8^)

Attojoules don't haul much freight.


With a continuous arc of a sparkplug immersed in Diesel oil (4 kev 10 ma. 60
hz)you can see one or two neutrons/minute.  :-)

Regards, Frederick
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 05:14:59 1999
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 u>
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At 01:05 3/19/99 -0500, John Schnurer wrote:

>	I must have missed something.  What is the discussion of charge 
>clusters and what work is being doen and-or attempted?

We've embarked on an effort to prove conclusively (i.e. in a manner that
the likes of Physical Review would accept) that they exist.  Only one
problem: we really don't know how to do it.  As surprising as it sounds, it
is non-trivial to prove that a relatively small portion of the charge
transferred in a spark discharge travels from one electrode to the other in
a tiny wad.  Things happen VERY fast in the discharge.




Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

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Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
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At 19:00 3/18/99 +0000, Jones Beene wrote:

<snip gratefully received summary of stripping>

OK, so you can disintegrate deuterons relatively easily.   But, when the
disintegrations energies are low, are the reactions products always p + p +
e-?
It seems like the only way you can get neutrons directly is to split the D
into p + n.  That takes 2.2 MeV no matter how you look at it, doesn't it?



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

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-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping

Scott wrote:


>At 19:00 3/18/99 +0000, Jones Beene wrote:
>
><snip gratefully received summary of stripping>

Agreed. An excellent discourse on Deuteron "stripping".
>
>OK, so you can disintegrate deuterons relatively easily.   But, when the
>disintegrations energies are low, are the reactions products always p + p +
>e-?

Look at the Neutrino detector reactions, Scott.

neutrino + 17Cl37 --->  18Ar37 + e- + an Antineutrino, or Neutrino +
Ga74 ---> Ge74 + an Antineutrino + e-, etc., for ANY element, so when you
get down to Deuterium:

Neutrino + 1H2 ---> P + p + an Antineutrino + e-.

OTOH,If you buy the Hydrino or Quasineutron Hypothesis:

D + e- or a Neutrino "Neutralizes the Proton Portion of the Deuteron forming
a Neutral Pair
A Dineutron that is Unbound by about 70 kev and this separates the Neutron.

The "Non-Thermonuclear Neutrons, travel in the same direction as a Deuteron
accelerated by an electric field".

>It seems like the only way you can get neutrons directly is to split the D
>into p + n.  That takes 2.2 MeV no matter how you look at it, doesn't it?

Not if you use a "Quantum Mechanical" Lever. :-)
>
Regards,  Frederick
>
>Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
>Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
>512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 06:23:59 1999
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Hey, Scott,

I wonder if a fusor could work in a cylindrical configuration.  I know
the geometry is not as favorable as a sphere, but it seems a cyl.
configuration would have a lot of advantages.  For one thing, structures
like grids could be just straight wires or small tubes(for He cooling?)
suspended under tension with springs on the ends of the cylinder.
What about the scaling factors in a fusor?  A large cylindrical version
would be easy to come by if a large stainless vacuum tank were
available.  Maybe the scale-up in size could counter the less favorable
geometry?  I would think a voltage boost to 100 kv would be easy with
the tank at ground and the inner grid cylinder at -HV.  The whole ends
of the tank could be the insulators.
I'm sure this variation has been considered - I wonder what the
drawbacks are?

Really interesting work, Scott!  Thanks for letting us in on it!

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 06:42:29 1999
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	Dear Vo.,

	How can I get address, POC, or Point of Contact, tel number for 
electric Space Craft Journal?

				JH

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 06:57:19 1999
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Subject: Jeanne Manning  Bounces
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	Any Vos know how to reach Jeanne Manning?

			JHS

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 07:20:03 1999
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At 09:32 3/19/99 -0500, John Schnurer wrote:

>	How can I get address, POC, or Point of Contact, tel number for 
>electric Space Craft Journal?

Electric Spacecraft Journal / NETWORK
322 Sunlight Drive
Leicester, North Carolina 28748
704-683-0313
704-683-3511 FAX


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 07:25:44 1999
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-----Original Message-----
From: Francis J. Stenger <fstenger interlaced.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 7:23 AM
Subject: Scott's Fusor

I think Frank just Re-invented Gow's "Cylindrical Magnetron" Fusion Reactor
ca. 1952-1953 at LBL. :-)

With a center axial wire electrode and an axial magnetic field  Gow obtained
tons of neutrons with about 2 kv by making the deuterons circle the center
electrode.

I have first-hand experience on this one, because it cost me and investors
in our corporation (including former lanl employees and a retired chief
patent  counsel for Big W) a bundle, spent before we uncovered Gow's
patents. :-(

Regards, Frederick


>Hey, Scott,
>
>I wonder if a fusor could work in a cylindrical configuration.  I know
>the geometry is not as favorable as a sphere, but it seems a cyl.
>configuration would have a lot of advantages.  For one thing, structures
>like grids could be just straight wires or small tubes(for He cooling?)
>suspended under tension with springs on the ends of the cylinder.
>What about the scaling factors in a fusor?  A large cylindrical version
>would be easy to come by if a large stainless vacuum tank were
>available.  Maybe the scale-up in size could counter the less favorable
>geometry?  I would think a voltage boost to 100 kv would be easy with
>the tank at ground and the inner grid cylinder at -HV.  The whole ends
>of the tank could be the insulators.
>I'm sure this variation has been considered - I wonder what the
>drawbacks are?
>
>Really interesting work, Scott!  Thanks for letting us in on it!
>
>Frank Stenger
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 07:53:31 1999
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Subject: Re: Firewall-Cone of Silence?
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To: Vortex

Notice the absence of input by those whose livelihood depends on Public
Funds;Labs, Contractors, Academia, etc., (or possibly their retirement
checks,too)?

The recent flap over security leaks is going to tighten up the e-mail
comments coming FROM those places.

Oh Well.  :-(

Regards,   Frederick



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 07:57:11 1999
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My Niece that was getting ready to go to Med School.You always think it can
happen to someone else.



>Published Friday
>                          March 19, 1999
>
>
>                          Premeditation Still the Issue as Jury Gets
>Slaying Case
>
>                          BY ANGIE BRUNKOW WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER
>
>                          A Douglas County jury was asked Thursday to
>convict Necdet  Canbaz of first-degree murder based on his words and
>actions before and during the shooting of his ex-girlfriend.
>
>                          "He intentionally had the gun with him. He
>intentionally pointed the gun at the back of her head and pulled the
>trigger," Chief Deputy  County Attorney Don Kleine said. "What does he
>do next? He walks over to her and stands over her. He puts one more
>bullet in  her head.
>
>                          "That act in and of itself without any other
>evidence is first-degree murder, the intentional cold-blooded killing of
>another human being."
>
>                          Attorneys gave closing arguments Thursday in
>the murder case,  which is being tried in Douglas County District Court
>before Judge Patricia A. Lamberty.
>
>                          The jury began deliberations Thursday but did
>not reach a verdict.
>
>                          Canbaz, a 47-year-old native of Turkey, is
>accused of going to his ex-girl-friend's apartment over Labor Day
>weekend, chasing her down the street and shooting her twice in the head.
>Debora Peralta,   29, who lived near 39th and Cass Streets, died a short
>time later at a  hospital.
>
>                          Defense attorney Mike Nelson argued that
>Canbaz should be found guilty of manslaughter - an intentional killing
>during a sudden  quarrel. Canbaz shot Peralta while passions ran high,
>he said.
> "At this moment in time, Necdet Canbaz was clearly upset, clearly
>confused and obviously feeling a sense of betrayal," Nelson said.  "We
>know he was suffering from a major psychotic depression that  impairs a
>person's ability to think clearly.
>                          "At the time of this killing with that mental
>state, a person would act  impulsively. That's exactly what happened in
>this case. He acted impulsively - he shot once. He shot twice."
>
>                          Kleine described Canbaz as a stalker who told
>neighbors and   co-workers several times that he planned to kill his
>ex-girlfriend for  leaving him. Canbaz threatened to kill her family,
>bought a gun and five sets of handcuffs as well as a map to California
>with the route  to her parents' hometown highlighted.
>  "It doesn't matter what trips your trigger when you put the gun to
>somebody else's head," Kleine said. "If you thought about it and
>thought about it and rolled it over in your head, that's
>premeditation."
>
>                          Nelson disputed the existence of a plan to
>kill Peralta. Had Canbaz  planned the slaying, he wouldn't have carried
>out the plan in broad  daylight on a sunny Omaha street; he wouldn't
>have told a bunch of people he was going to "kill" her; he wouldn't have
>freely talked to police later about what happened, Nelson said.   "This
>wasn't a plan at all," Nelson said. "All it was a chain of events, a
>very tragic chain of events, that occurred over a short  period of
>time."
>
>
>                              © Copyright 1999 Omaha World-Herald
>Company.
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 08:36:47 1999
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	 <36f2b2d7.79038457 mail-hub> <3.0.1.32.19990319074345.009c8554@mail.eden.com>
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Scott Little wrote:

> OK, so you can disintegrate deuterons relatively easily.   But, when the
> disintegrations energies are low, are the reactions products always p + p +
> e-?

> It seems like the only way you can get neutrons directly is to split the D
> into p + n.  That takes 2.2 MeV no matter how you look at it, doesn't it?

Scott,

If I understand your question correctly here, it would seem like you are not
fully convinced of and/or aware of the impications/ mechanics of D stripping.

In the case of D (and probably only D) instead of looking at the 2.23MeV as a
threshold, consider that the distribution probability for p +n reactions will
have a long tail towards the lower energies. I mean verrrry long. It could be
possible that you are getting orders of magnitude more thermal neutrons than the
high energy ones you are measuring (not likely of course, but like catalysis,
with stripping there is a dependency on many non-intuitive variables: i.e.
geometry and electrode composition). BTW, a thoriated cathode would be very
interesting.

This was my main reason for suggesting a sensitive thermal neutron counter.

Regards,
Jones

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 08:45:17 1999
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Just got back from a six thousand mile trek driving across country. Lots of
mail to go through.

Congratulations Scott on your successful experiment!

As soon as I get my house in order I will be starting up the H2 glow discharge
experiments.  In my travels I picked up a couple of oil burner ignition
transformers, 10kV  CT  23mA   that may be useful in the coming months.

Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 08:50:27 1999
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Frederick J Sparber wrote:
> 
> I think Frank just Re-invented Gow's "Cylindrical Magnetron" Fusion Reactor
> ca. 1952-1953 at LBL. :-)

Reinventing wheels is the story of my life, Fred!
> 
> With a center axial wire electrode and an axial magnetic field  Gow obtained
> tons of neutrons with about 2 kv by making the deuterons circle the center
> electrode.

Yes, but we don't want a "line dance", Fred, we want a "slam dance",
right?  But, a magnetic shield to protect the inner grid (as was already
mentioned) would be nice.  How about a string of ceramic permanent
magnets strung on the straight grid wires with  NNSSNNSSNNSSNNSS
orientation?  I'm talking BB sized magnets and a large fusor.
That orientation should keep the magnets at stable spacing by mutual
repulsion.  I guess this would just mess up the nice to and fro moves
of the ions.  Oh well.
Maybe we can get Horace to calculate the trajectories of +ions zooming
by such a grid wire on their way to their destiny? - I've heard that
Horace likes to calculate.  :-)

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 09:13:09 1999
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-----Original Message-----
From: VCockeram aol.com <VCockeram@aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 9:42 AM
Subject: Fusor


Vince wrote:

>Just got back from a six thousand mile trek driving across country. Lots of
>mail to go through.

And you never even stopped by to say.hello. Because of snow,I-40 is closed
from Albuquerque to the Texas border this morning.
>
>Congratulations Scott on your successful experiment!
>
>As soon as I get my house in order I will be starting up the H2 glow
discharge
>experiments.  In my travels I picked up a couple of oil burner ignition
>transformers, 10kV  CT  23mA   that may be useful in the coming months.

Good choices, Vince, those should work well.

Best,    Fred
>
>Vince Cockeram
>Las Vegas Nevada
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 09:20:24 1999
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In a message dated 3/18/99 3:30:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, editor infinite-
energy.com writes:

<< I do not think Seamans had anything to do with DoE.
  >>
Gene,

You are right on that.  I looked it up in his book, "Aiming at Targets" and he
was the head of the Energy Research and Development Agency before it became a
department.  

Regards,

Bob

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-----Original Message-----
From: Francis J. Stenger <fstenger interlaced.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Scott's Fusor

Frank wrote:
>
>Reinventing wheels is the story of my life, Fred!
>>
>> With a center axial wire electrode and an axial magnetic field  Gow
obtained
>> tons of neutrons with about 2 kv by making the deuterons circle the
center
>> electrode.
>
>Yes, but we don't want a "line dance", Fred, we want a "slam dance",
>right?

Right. But I think that with a superconducting
magnet and mirror magnets, Gow might have got breakeven.


 >But, a magnetic shield to protect the inner grid (as was already
>mentioned) would be nice.  How about a string of ceramic permanent
>magnets strung on the straight grid wires with  NNSSNNSSNNSSNNSS
>orientation?  I'm talking BB sized magnets and a large fusor.
>That orientation should keep the magnets at stable spacing by mutual
>repulsion.  I guess this would just mess up the nice to and fro moves
>of the ions.

This is what has always bothered me about the Tokamaks, why do you expect
collisions between
deuterons etc., if they all going in the same direction, like a line dance?

The Fusor is closer to the Univ of Cal Irvine Colliding Beam apparatus where
they are colliding Protons/Deuterons with Boron Atoms,with the beam held in
place with an intense magnetic field somewhat like you suggest.

Cockcroft and Walton bombarded Boron with up to 700 kev Protons in 1927 and
got nuclear reactions. Deuterium and Neutrons were unknown to them at that
time. But there is something about a head-on center-of-mass collision that
is much more energetic than rear-ender (line dance) isn't there?

>Oh well.
>Maybe we can get Horace to calculate the trajectories of +ions zooming
>by such a grid wire on their way to their destiny? - I've heard that
>Horace likes to calculate.  :-)

Right now Horace is busy calculating how old he will be on March 29th.  :-)

Best,  Fred

>
>Frank Stenger
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 10:29:18 1999
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I think you just reinvented a wobbler.

> ----------
> From: 	Francis J. Stenger[SMTP:fstenger interlaced.net]
> Reply To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
> Sent: 	Friday, March 19, 1999 8:48 AM
> To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
> Subject: 	Re: Scott's Fusor
> 
> Frederick J Sparber wrote:
> > 
> > I think Frank just Re-invented Gow's "Cylindrical Magnetron" Fusion
> Reactor
> > ca. 1952-1953 at LBL. :-)
> 
> Reinventing wheels is the story of my life, Fred!
> > 
> > With a center axial wire electrode and an axial magnetic field  Gow
> obtained
> > tons of neutrons with about 2 kv by making the deuterons circle the
> center
> > electrode.
> 
> Yes, but we don't want a "line dance", Fred, we want a "slam dance",
> right?  But, a magnetic shield to protect the inner grid (as was already
> mentioned) would be nice.  How about a string of ceramic permanent
> magnets strung on the straight grid wires with  NNSSNNSSNNSSNNSS
> orientation?  I'm talking BB sized magnets and a large fusor.
> That orientation should keep the magnets at stable spacing by mutual
> repulsion.  I guess this would just mess up the nice to and fro moves
> of the ions.  Oh well.
> Maybe we can get Horace to calculate the trajectories of +ions zooming
> by such a grid wire on their way to their destiny? - I've heard that
> Horace likes to calculate.  :-)
> 
> Frank Stenger
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 10:53:17 1999
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In message Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:50:16 +0200, Jean Delagarde wrote:

"Regarding Mills'experiments, one cannot help noting that in spite of
numerous announcements and with the exception of laboratory results, not a
single proof has been given of any excess heat and/or production of new
hydrino compounds."

Jean also wrote:  "...Mills is now
creating a completely new and fantasmagoric chemistry unkwown from any
existing scientist and for which no proofs are given."

Jean, what kind of proof do you want beyond laboratory results, including the
analysis by many different analytical techniques of physical specimens of
hydrino compounds, combined with instructions showing how to make the
compounds, as well as excess heat?

In a private message, a contributing member of Vortex-L suggested that Mills
would be better off publishing the new material in the latest edition of his
book (January 1999) in peer-reviewed journals.  But where could Mills publish
the results?  Even FUSION TECHNOLOGY might be loath to publish a paper that
looked like chemistry and chemical engineering instead of anything related to
nuclear fusion.  JOURNAL OF ELECTROANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY might at least
consider a paper about novel compounds produced by electrochemical means; but
many of the new results don't fall into that category.  Can anyone think of
another peer-reviewed journal that would even consider a paper about hydrino
hydride compounds? 

In message Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:24:11 -0500, Jed Rothwell wrote that
although he remained impressed by some of the papers in FUSION TECHNOLOGY and
by Thermacore's presentation at MIT in 1992:

"I dismiss Mills' business strategy and his public relations. I think they
are fatally flawed, although I have to admit, he seems to have gathered a
great deal of capital. That is surprising. Maybe he will succeed in other
ways, but I do not think so. Based on the history of things like electric
motors, electric lights, airplanes and transistors, I do not think the
Mills and his colleagues working alone, in isolation, can develop this
technology. It will take a mass effort by many thousands of researchers in
hundreds of companies."

Mills' business strategy and public relations have been good enough to keep
his company growing.  His public relations strategy may be flawed, but then
Mills is a scientist, not a PR man.  Maybe as his company, BlackLight Power
(BLP), continues to grow, he'll find room in its budget for an experienced,
professional public relations person.

Mills is aware of the need to work with other outfits and has said so in the
material on the BLP website.  BLP's strategy now, according to the website, is
to develop cooperative arrangements with many companies.  It seems to me that
BLP has already made a good start on its new strategy.  I agree that BLP will
need lots of help to develop and bring to market the major new technologies
that the company has pioneered, but Mills knows that and is acting on it.

Tom Stolper

    


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For the benefit of those who follow Vortex-L by thread, I'm reposting in this
thread my comments about the Ni/H2O/K2CO3 work of Shkedi and his team (these
comments appeared a couple of days ago in the recombination thread).  I think
that the 1995 paper by Shkedi, et al., was a red herring, and since it gets
cited a lot by those who don't believe the nickel/light water excess heat
results, especially those of Mills, it seems worth reposting a rebuttal.

In his post Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:13:03 -0800 (PST), in the thread titled
" Re:  Ibison: very critical review of R.L.Mills opus in JSE,"  Michael
Schaffer wrote that he had read Mills, Good & Shaubach 1994, as well as Mills
and Good 1995.

Michael went on:

"Have you read the Shkedi et all paper, Nuclear Fusion, v. 28 (1995) p.
1720? They did an extensive series of light water cold fusion
experiments in which they employed excellent calorimetry and
measurement of recombination. This paper, and a further comment by
Shkedi, NF 30 (1996) 133, make it very clear that recombination IS
exactly equal to the excess heat in their experiments. Their geometry
is cylindrical, like many (but not all) experiments of this class. "

Yes, I have read Shkedi, et al., 1995, but the name of the journal is FUSION
TECHNOLOGY,  not Nuclear Fusion.  (Is this a Freudian slip, indicative of a
wish to move the debate onto more familiar ground, where Michael could make
many valid and telling points?)

Ed Storms pointed our earlier in this recombination thread that recombination
was a problem primarily at low absolute currents, especially below 100 mA.
Maybe that's why the experiments of Shkedi, et al., were of poor Faradaic
efficiency and showed lots of recombination.  Shkedi, et al., used currents
running from 0.18 A to 0.60 A., vs. the 5.0 A to 40.0 A range of the constant
current experiments of Niedra, et al.

Here are my comments on Shkedi, et al., as posted in 1997 on Vortex-L:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Subj:    Re:  Recombination

Rich Murray has cited and quoted the article by Shkedi, et al., in Fusion
Technology, Vol. 28, No. 4 (November 1995), pp. 1720-1730, to the effect that
the excess heat from Mills' electrolytic energy cells was an artifact caused
by recombination in the cells.

Shkedi, et al., cited only the earliest of Mills' articles on excess heat,
namely, Mills & Kneizys 1991, which reported only low-power experiments, for
the analysis of which recombination was indeed an issue.

Shkedi, et al., failed to cite Mills, Good & Shaubach, Fusion Technology,
Vol. 25 (January 1994), pp. 103-119.  Shekedi and his team failed to deal
with the much more robust results reported by Mills, Good & Shaubach in their
1994 article, most of which were beyond even 100% recombination.  

The strongest recombination claimed by Shkedi, et al., was only about 34%
(see their Table IV).  

The article by Shkedi, et al., was received by Fusion Technology on May 31,
1994, so the January 1994 article by Mills, Good & Shaubach should have been
available to Shkedi and his team.

According to Good's comments in Fusion Technology, Vol. 30 (September 1996),
p. 132, Shkedi, et al., failed to contact Good or his colleagues, even though
Shkedi and his team contacted others.

The 1995 Shkedi article was rendered even more obsolete by an ironical
coincidence:  it was published in the very same issue as an article by Mills
& Good on "Fractional Quantum Energy Levels of Hydrogen,"  pp. 1697-1719,
which contained sections (on pages 1698-1701) reporting exceptionally robust
results from a long-running experiment, using a wire-mesh cathode, that
produced excess heat far beyond even 100% recombination.

To sum up, the 1995 Shkedi article was already obsolete by the time of
publication, and it's now hopelessly out-of-date, though it retains
historical interest.

Tom Stolper

--------- Headers ---------
From: Tstolper aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 12:12:33 -0400 (EDT)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Shkedi said (his letter dated 14 December 1995, in FUSION FACTS, Vol. 7, No. 6
(December 1995), pp.
20-21) that his team had consulted lots of cold fusioneers for their
experiments.  Evidently they didn't consult, or at least didn't listen to,
anyone who knew anything about how to make a Mills-type cell work.  Most
notably, Shkedi didn't even consult, let alone listen to, Mills or Good; and
at the time, Mills and Good would have been happy to provide advice or
assistance or both.  Today, I have the impression (and that's all it is, just
an impression from afar) that they're no longer willing to expend any more
time on people they think are die-hard skeptics.

In his letter to FUSION FACTS, Shkedi continued to avoid the exceptional
excess heat results of Mills & Good.  

Here is all that Shkedi had to say about the Mills & Good article published
in the same issue of FUSION TECHNOLOGY (November 1995) as the article by
Shkedi and his team:  "the excess heat claimed to be found by Mills and Good
is predicated on the assumption stated following equation (7):  'The net
Faraday efficiency of gas evolution is ASSUMED to be unity.'"  (The all-caps
emphasis is Shkedi's.)

Shkedi neglected to mention that the excess heat results reported by Mills &
Good in their 1995 article were so far beyond recombination that they would
have been impressive even if their Faradaic efficiency had been zero.  The
1995 Mills & Good results were all the more impressive given that even Shkedi
wasn't able to do worse than 66% Faradaic efficiency.

Mills & Good put 5.72 ± 0.12 MJ of electrical energy into their Ni/H2O/K2CO3
experiment and got 29.8 ± 0.4 MJ of heat out.  The uncorrected power in (V*I)
was
4.73 ±0.10 W , and the heat power out was 24.6 ±0.5 W.  They used a pulsed
current of 15 ± 0.1 A with a 15% duty cycle.  See their Table I on p. 1701.
One can't explain away results like that by invoking recombination, as Michael
Schaffer knows, so Shkedi just avoided them.

To sum up again, Shkedi did show that his own experiments were of poor
Faradaic
efficiency, but that's all he was able to show.

Tom Stolper

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Frederick J Sparber wrote:
> 

> >Yes, but we don't want a "line dance", Fred, we want a "slam dance",
> >right?
> 
> Right. But I think that with a superconducting
> magnet and mirror magnets, Gow might have got breakeven.

OK, Fred, now what if we could use twin parallel wires in the same
axial field.  This might give us two populations of ions - one
population rotating about each wire.  Now, if we set things up just
right, maybe we could have the near edges of the two populations in
slight interference.  This would be a bit like trying to mesh twin gears
on parallel shafts rotating in the same direction.  Maybe we could
get neutron "gear teeth" flying off in all directions?


>But there is something about a head-on center-of-mass collision that
> is much more energetic than rear-ender (line dance) isn't there?

Got to be, Fred!

Frank Stenger

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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Scott's Fusor
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At 11:48 AM 3/19/99, Francis J. Stenger wrote:
[snip]
>Yes, but we don't want a "line dance", Fred, we want a "slam dance",
>right?  But, a magnetic shield to protect the inner grid (as was already
>mentioned) would be nice.  How about a string of ceramic permanent
>magnets strung on the straight grid wires with  NNSSNNSSNNSSNNSS
>orientation?  I'm talking BB sized magnets and a large fusor.
>That orientation should keep the magnets at stable spacing by mutual
>repulsion.  I guess this would just mess up the nice to and fro moves
>of the ions.  Oh well.
>Maybe we can get Horace to calculate the trajectories of +ions zooming
>by such a grid wire on their way to their destiny? - I've heard that
>Horace likes to calculate.  :-)


Horace is VERY busy calculating as it is!  8^)

My experience with magnets and particles is that is the magnet is strong
enough to do any good it will simply attract particles right down the field
lines in a spiraling fashion.  Particles coming directly at the magnet face
are not deflected at all.  My guess is the net result for a fusor would be
the apparent widening of the grid lines, until the magnets fried.

I still vote for exploration of electrons as the means to dislodge neutrons
from D2 for the many reasons mentioned in the earlier discussions on the
topic.  Among them:  is much easier to get D+ and e- to "slam dance" in a
plasma, there is a coulomb well that gives you a natural .5 MeV boost, the
dipole attraction of the short wavelength electron to either the proton or
neutron in the D2 nucleus and subsequent rotation to magnetic alignment and
QM wave superposition wipes out the electromagnetic (dipole) portion of the
nuclear bond, providing another MeV advantage, and the electron momentum
and momentary dipole bond with its ovelapped partner provides the impulse
to pull the partner out of the nucleus.  What more could you want?  It
seems to me you pay a big price overcoming the coulomb well with classic
fusion schemes.  You pay .5 MeV lost to the coulomb barrier, and lose 0.5
MeV you had from the coulomb well.  In addition, it costs a lot more to
provide high energy deuterons than it does electrons.  Of course you don't
have a proton around to bond with its neighbor, e.g. a metal atom, and
permanently make an energy loan for the energy for the transaction, but
that seems to be small potatoes by comparison, speaking practically.   Also
massive pulsed electon beams focused on heavy ice or LiD pellets (mounted
on a HV anode) strike me as more likely to get results at much less energy
than a big laser.  Of course, there remains the question of whether it
works. (MINOR DETAILS!)  8^)

One interesting thing about the fusor is that, as D+ ions go one way across
the grid, electrons are going the other. There may be a lot more thermal
electrons in the vicinity of Scott's fusor than expected.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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-----Original Message-----
From: Francis J. Stenger <fstenger interlaced.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: Scott's Fusor


Frank Stenger wrote:
>
>OK, Fred, now what if we could use twin parallel wires in the same
>axial field.  This might give us two populations of ions - one
>population rotating about each wire.  Now, if we set things up just
>right, maybe we could have the near edges of the two populations in
>slight interference.  This would be a bit like trying to mesh twin gears
>on parallel shafts rotating in the same direction.  Maybe we could
>get neutron "gear teeth" flying off in all directions?

Now you're getting close to Maglich's "Figure 8" or "Infinity Sign"
racetrack scheme where the phasing is such that the beams Collide at the
crossover point.  :-)

Last I heard he had pumped about $15Million into a collision where the
repulsive force between two nuclei is, F = k*Z1*Z2*q^2/R^2 (Nt).

Might be better to do as Horace says and collide Relativistic Electrons that
are moving in opposite directions wrt the Deuterons and get enough neutron
"stripping" followed by the
neutron-Boron 10 reaction: Neutron + 5B10 --->
3Li7 + He4 + 2.73 Mev.

I bet that the UCI Colliding Beam Consortium has looked at the Proton-Boron
Collision either
with the SLAC or at Fermilab, before going ahead with their "FUSOR".

Regards,  Frederick
>
>Frank Stenger
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 14:03:46 1999
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Frederick J Sparber wrote:
> 
(snip)

> Might be better to do as Horace says and collide Relativistic Electrons that
> are moving in opposite directions wrt the Deuterons and get enough neutron
> "stripping" followed by the
> neutron-Boron 10 reaction: Neutron + 5B10 --->
> 3Li7 + He4 + 2.73 Mev.

OK, I like Horace's electrons too - we can get an electron source by
high-field emission, forget those nasty, energy wasting hot filaments.
An ultra-efficient solid-state voltage multiplier can give us the
kilovolts for acceleration - now, all we need is the best target.
Can we stick D ions on the surface of something so that they will "moon"
the electron source with their bare (N)(P)'s - that way the electrons
will have a "natural" target. :-)
What do we use to get the boron in the picture - boron nitride plated
with a magic "mooning" layer??

> 
> I bet that the UCI Colliding Beam Consortium has looked at the Proton-Boron
> Collision either
> with the SLAC or at Fermilab, before going ahead with their "FUSOR".

Well, I just wish Popular Science would spend more print on these
"alternative" fusion concepts so I could keep up with them!  If not,
Fred, I'll just have to keep bouncing these shop-worn ideas off of
the "wellspring of all knowledge" - who shall remain nameless. :-)

Sigh, these things just keep getting further and further away from a
quick weekend-level checkout in my ill-equipped garage facility!
I'll have to let Vince carry the ball near-term.  At least he has a
vacuum pump!

Frank Stenger

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-----Original Message-----
From: Francis J. Stenger <fstenger interlaced.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: Scott's Fusor


Frank Stenger wrote:
Snip

>OK, I like Horace's electrons too - we can get an electron source by
>high-field emission, forget those nasty, energy wasting hot filaments.

Two birds with one stone, a Borane gas BxHy or
BxDy discharge source at a few Torr will provide the electrons.

>Can we stick D ions on the surface of something so that they will "moon"
>the electron source with their bare (N)(P)'s - that way the electrons
>will have a "natural" target. :-)

Nope, let the Boron coat the walls of your "Tokamak" with the 19% B10 in
Boron, the "stipping" neutrons will fission it to Li7 + He4 + 2.73 Mev.
>
>Sigh, these things just keep getting further and further away from a
>quick weekend-level checkout in my ill-equipped garage facility!

Those are the the kind of ventures that trick you into multimillion dollar
blind alleys.  :-)

>I'll have to let Vince carry the ball near-term.  At least he has a
>vacuum pump!

Yes, and a 10 kv 23 ma. ignition transformer off your furnace and one from
someone elses.  :-)

Regards,  Frederick
>
>Frank Stenger
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 15:36:55 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
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Thank you Jones Beene for your very nice writeup on stripping reactions.

At 10:00 AM 3/18/99, Jones Beene wrote:
[snip lots of very good stuff]
>For typical targets, the net energy released by the process is around ten MeV.
>(As I remember it, aluminum is an excellent target.  Beryllium is better, but
>only because it contributes further neutrons, and Lithium is the best: Li7 + p
>--> 2 He4 + energy.)
[snip]

Just happened to notice the above.  It may be of interest that the reaction
Li7 + p -> 2 He4 + 17.3 MeV in normal fusion reactions only occurs about
20 percent  of the time.  The other 80 percent you get Li7 + p -> Be7 + n
-1.6 MeV.  Let's see, .2 * 17.3 + .8 * -1.6 = 3.46 - 1.28 = 2.18.  So you
get 2.18 MeV and 0.8 Be7 and 0.2 He on average.  Not so bad.  However, I
think these numbers apply strictly to p + Li7 collisions, not stripping
reactions.  Maybe the Be7 product of the endothermic reaction just never
shows up in a stripping reaction because no enery can be lent?  The
presence of elevated trace amounts of Be7 might be used in long runs as a
contrdiction of the theory that the stripping reaction borrows energy?
Likewise an expected amount (from neutron activation, etc.) along with an
expected neutron count would confirm the proton energy borrowing theory. I
assume this or something much better has already been done.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 16:08:37 1999
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Some ramblings:

If there is anything to the possibility of stagewise excitement of the
nucleus, then current density is key to a good reaction rate.  This is to
avoid decay during hits and thus increase the cumulative effect. It is
interesting that Kamada et al (if I recall correctly) showed a correlation
between electron beam density and high energy reaction products in a
deuterated Al target, a very unexpected result.

A strong magnetic field may enhance stagewise excitement too.  These things
seem to come together to suggest a pinch as an ideal environment to place
the D.  I wonder if the various pinch experiments have anomalous neutrons
(still)?  The experiment could already have been done that demonstrates e +
D -> P + n + e on a moderately large scale.

In any event, I think a high current high voltage discharge would be
advantageous.  However, another idea, one that clearly may not work, is to
use a circular glass/quartz tube with D2 gas as the secondary of a very
high voltage transformer.  The transformer would have a few turns of ultra
high voltage,  kind of like a step down Tesla coil.  The problem is to
induce about 20 KV (or even just 2 KV) across a distance of about the mean
free path of an electron in the gas.  This requires either an unattainable
coil voltage and/or a very thin gas, neither of which is good, and
necessarily results in a low current.   Still, it would look cool!   8^)

The fusor does seem to have a lot going for it. If there were just a way to
soup it up.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 16:58:57 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
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Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:54:03 GMT
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On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:00:38 +0000, Jones Beene wrote:

>Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>
>> AFAIK you need about 2.2 MeV to strip a neutron from a deuteron...now what
>> have I missed?
[snip]
>would suggest. "Stripping" can occur in plasmas as cold as 1.0 ev. and Deuterium
>can decay to p + p + e- directly.

Certainly, but then you don't end up with a neutron.
[snip]
>What apparently happens is that the uncharged end of the dumbbell can get very
>close to another nucleus -- it is attracted both by second order coulomb effects
>and by the strong force.  If and when the bond breaks though, it is often the
>neutron that breaks free, and the proton is absorbed.  But again, the wrong way
>to look at it -- pion exchanges with the target nucleus both cause the breakup
>and determine the makeup of the unabsorbed particle.

This is just another way of saying what I also said in my previous post.
Essentially this describes a fusion/fission reaction. I.e. a fusion
reaction followed by a neutron emission, where the "followed" can better
be stated as "combined with", i.e. both occurring at the same time.
(I abbreviated this to "a fusion reaction").
(Or in the case of decay to p + e-, two particles are ejected, with most

of the energy going to the electron - presumably).
>
>So you need both the physical model of the deuterium nucleus -- one of the
>largest, but only in one dimension -- and the quark/pion model which says that
>any charged pion interaction between a deuteron and another nuclei must cause
>the deuteron to decompose.

Any (nuclear) interaction with a another nucleus constitutes a nuclear
reaction. Call it fusion/fission, or what you will.
The point is that this means that "stripping reactions" are essentially
"fusion" reactions (i.e. initially the deuteron starts to merge with
another nucleus). So there really isn't any point in trying to establish
a semantic distinction between stripping reactions and fusion reactions.
I.e. a "stripping" reaction of a deuteron on another deuteron would look
like this:

D + D -> He3 + n (but this is the description of one branch of the
standard "fusion" reaction!). n energy = 2.45 meV.
(Or possibly D + D -> He3 + p + e-).

>
>Deuterium can decay to p + p + e- directly (~1.5 MeV), but the real difference
>from all other nuclei is that the effective distance between the two bosons, and
>the low electric charge makes it effectively loosely bound.  Heisenberg's

We know it is "loosely" bound, the binding energy is only 2.2 MeV,
compared to the usual +-6-8 MeV for neutrons in most other nuclei.

> door
>is open wide enough for weak and EM interactions, possibly even neutrinos, to
>supply the missing energy for a "spontaneous" decay.
>
>In the early days of Hot Fusion research they bombarded "Heavy Ice" with
>deuterons in order  to knock off neutrons (requires 2.23 Mev separation energy).
>With 500,000 ev bombarding deuterons the neutron yield was 1 in 200,000 and at
>100,000 ev deuteron bombarding energy 1 in 10,000,000.

Yes, but these are still stock standard fusion reactions, as above.

>
>In any case, experience has shown that any paper that assumes that
>fissioning deuterium requires MeV level center of mass energies is wrong. If

Of course it is. Such a statement completely ignores the fusion energy
resulting from the fusion of the proton with the other nucleus.
[snip]
>mass energy needed to split the deuterons.  You will get a high incidence of
>cases where the proton is absorbed by the target while the neutron sails merrily
>on its way.  The path taken in most of these events is that the deuteron
>spontaneously (and virtually) decomposes, then the proton is absorbed by the
>target, releasing enough energy to more than bring the Heisenberg books into
>balance.

Precisely. What I don't understand is how this process can result in the
production of thermal neutrons. By all accounts, they ought to be quite
energetic (> 1 MeV), though thermalization through collisions will of
course occur.

>
>For typical targets, the net energy released by the process is around ten MeV.

(Well that certainly is > 1 MeV , though I suspect that the ten MeV
figure is for the fusion of the complete D with another nucleus, i.e.
where the entire deuteron is retained as part of the new nucleus. ;)
[snip]
>The neutrons from D stripping are thermal. The energy value of neutrons lies

??? (It may be that they usually don't have enough energy to dislodge
neutrons from other nuclei).

> not
>in their own momentum but in the fact that thermal neutron induced reactions in
>suitable elements releases from 2 to 200 MeV. A neutron beam with suitable

I assume that in this case sufficient mass needs to be present to ensure
that the "stripping" neutrons are thermalized before they escape the
mass.

>kinetic energy can multiply neutron counts by n,2n reaction in lead, lithium and
>beryllium, re: n + 7Li --> 6Li + 2 n. But these neutrons do not arise from

This reaction requires a neutron with an energy of at least 7.25 MeV.

>stripping. If it were not for the fact that these n,2n reactions are
>endothermic, all the worldís energy problems would have been solved fifty years
>ago.

Indeed: 

D + Li7 -> 2 x He4 + n results in neutrons with a spread of energy, the
most energetic being 13.4 MeV (?), and the least energetic being
thermal, in which case, the He4 nuclei each get 7.56 meV. Most neutrons
won't have the requisite energy to liberate an extra neutron from Li7,
especially after some degree of thermalization in the lattice.

D + Li6 -> 2 x He4 and no neutrons.

or

D + Li6 -> He4 + He3 + n + 1.8 MeV (total, of which only part goes to
the neutron).
>
>Flipping the spin of the proton in a deuteron could be enough to induce fission
>in the D2 nucleus.  The problem then, to harness this reaction, is to find the
>strongest and/or most efficient possible method for flipping the spin of the
>proton relative to the neutron- or possibly a combined or cascading
>interaction.  Since a near miss of a nucleus by an electron, or a hit by an
>insufficiently energetic electron, would tend to excite the D nucleus, it is
>reasonable to think a series of two or more such interactions, provided they
>were separated by short enough duration, would be additive in effect.

Anyone know the energy of the first excited state of the deuterium
nucleus?
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 17:19:35 1999
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Horace Heffner wrote:

>  It may be of interest that the reaction Li7 + p -> 2 He4 + 17.3 MeV in normal
> fusion reactions only occurs about 20 percent  of the time.  The other 80
> percent you get Li7 + p -> Be7 + n -1.6 MeV.  Let's see, .2 * 17.3 + .8 * -1.6 =
> 3.46 - 1.28 = 2.18.  So you get 2.18 MeV and 0.8 Be7 and 0.2 He on average.  Not
> so bad.

Actually it would be a little better than that in an operating reactor - as Be7
decays, giving back a  .86  MeV gamma - half life 53+ days. But there are far more
important reasons why lithium would be useful if not ideal in  in a "stripping
reactor" if such is ever possible. The 6Li + n --> 3H + 4He + 4.79 MeV will catch
the thermal neutrons (very high cross section), leaving 3H tritium to burn very
energetically with some of the D. Most importantly, lithium is quite conductive,
with a low melting point when alloyed with K, and low vapor pressure so it could
be used as a self healing electrode. Pound for pound lithium gives as much energy
as plutonium at a fraction of the cost/ toxicity/ proliferation problems.

BTW, what ever happened to your idea about using NMR techniques in such a reactor?
When you first bounced it around last year, it sounded to me like the eureka
moment for LENR.

Regards,
Jones




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 17:35:56 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 02:32:21 GMT
Organization: Improving
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On Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:14:09 +0000, Jones Beene wrote:
[snip]
>BTW, what ever happened to your idea about using NMR techniques in such a reactor?

Wouldn't NMR just result in the entire nucleus flipping, rather than
proton and neutron with respect to one another?

>When you first bounced it around last year, it sounded to me like the eureka
>moment for LENR.

[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 17:47:14 1999
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HI Nick,

If you have Jeanne Manning's email address could you forward this to her?
John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu> of the vortex group is trying to
contact her.  Thanks.

At 9:47 AM 3/19/99, John Schnurer wrote:
>        Any Vos know how to reach Jeanne Manning?
>
>                        JHS

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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References: <3.0.1.32.19990318174339.009cd2b8 mail.eden.com> <36f2b2d7.79038457@mail-hub> <36F14D2C.319E53AF@cwnet.com> <36f4edd8.54522277@mail-hub>
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

>  "Stripping" can occur in plasmas as cold as 1.0 ev. and Deuterium
> can decay to p + p + e- directly....Certainly, but then you don't end up with a
> neutron.

The wording was confusing here. Most often, the neutron is indeed stripped from the
D nucleus, leaving a thermal neutron. What makes this reaction surprising is that it
happens with regularity at only a small fracion of the threshold level for D
fission. The analogy was made by someone on Vortex that the process is a little like
kicking a coke machine and getting a free soda... but never as often as you want.

> Any (nuclear) interaction with a another nucleus constitutes a nuclear
> reaction. Call it fusion/fission, or what you will.
> The point is that this means that "stripping reactions" are essentially
> "fusion" reactions (i.e. initially the deuteron starts to merge with
> another nucleus). So there really isn't any point in trying to establish
> a semantic distinction between stripping reactions and fusion reactions.

This is precisely where you have missed the point. Yes, the stripping reaction can
occur in nuclear reactions but can also occur in low energy EM reactions, perhaps
even with NMR, though this is far less certain.

> >With 500,000 ev bombarding deuterons the neutron yield was 1 in 200,000 and at
> 100,000 ev deuteron bombarding energy 1 in 10,000,000.
>
> Yes, but these are still stock standard fusion reactions, as above.

No, these probabilities are much higher than expected. In fact the whole issue/
inquiry we have going on here is one of probability. There is some minute quantum
probability of almost anything, I guess, but with D  -- and probably only with D
there is a rather high likelihold that you can jiggle it, say in your microwave
oven, and find a the occaional neutron.

More later, my "whistler" teapot is driving me crazy.

Regards,
Jones





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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

> >BTW, what ever happened to your idea about using NMR techniques in such a reactor?
>
> Wouldn't NMR just result in the entire nucleus flipping, rather than
> proton and neutron with respect to one another?

Not necessarily -- that is, if NMR is applied to a D plasma or in a cross-field
reactor. The "bar" of that Deuterium "dumbell" could become a little rubbery, at
least, that's the theory.

Regards,
Jones



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 18:18:55 1999
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Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
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At 8:14 AM 3/19/99, Jones Beene wrote:
[snip]
>BTW, what ever happened to your idea about using NMR techniques in such a
>reactor?
>When you first bounced it around last year, it sounded to me like the eureka
>moment for LENR.

Fooled you, huh?  8^)  Just more of my amature blather.  I can see I am
overdue to make my regular disclaimer.  To avoid having to fill my posts
with caveats and disclaimers, I have periodically noted that I am totally
unqualified in physics by work experience or education.  I took one
freshman course in mechanics in 1962.  That's it.  Everything else beyond
high school level is self taught, and with much help from fellow vorts.
Like Fred, I just post most any screwball idea that comes to mind.  The
main difference is he is qualified to do it.   If I cook up some ideas and
post it is with the hope somebody can use them or stimulate their own
thinking.  I am a believer in brainstorming and synergy.  I typically leave
the critical thinking phase to others.  8^)

I do have a backlog of ideas and experiments I would like to try myself.
NMR techniques applied to LENR is one of them, but down in the queue for
now.  I do low budget home experiments from time to time as circumstances
permit.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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-----Original Message-----
From: Horace Heffner <hheffner mtaonline.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: Scott's Fusor


Horace wrote:


>Some ramblings:
>
>If there is anything to the possibility of stagewise excitement of the
>nucleus, then current density is key to a good reaction rate.  This is to
>avoid decay during hits and thus increase the cumulative effect.

This why a discharge to a pool of Molten LiH or
LiD, or even a pool of water saturated with the
hydrides looks promising.

Strangely, going by the old Mercury Arc Rectifiers the mercury doesn't get
above about 350 C, but the Cathode Spots develop a current density of about
100 amperes/millimeter^2 and if the current exceeds this,more Cathode Spots
develop.

The theory of this Phenomenon is thought to be that there is a positive
space charge set up
Very Close to the Surface of the Pool that causes HIGH FIELD EMISSION of the
electrons from the pool.

This Might do what you are getting at, Horace,you got Li+ and P+ or D+ ions
in that space charge cloud and Very High Energy Electrons coming out of the
pool hitting them.

>
>A strong magnetic field may enhance stagewise excitement too.  These things
>seem to come together to suggest a pinch as an ideal environment to place
>the D.

100 amperes/mm^2 should make a fairly decent "pinch pressure":I^2/200(pi)R^2
(dynes/cm^2).


>I wonder if the various pinch experiments have anomalous neutrons
>(still)?  The experiment could already have been done that demonstrates e +
>D -> P + n + e on a moderately large scale.

>
>The fusor does seem to have a lot going for it. If there were just a way to
>soup it up.

How about a Water-LiOD or LiOH "Cathode Arc Stew" spiced up with Boric Acid
H3BO3 to essentialy make a "Lithium Borax" Stew? :-)

Regards,   Frederick
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner
>
>
>


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 18:33:43 1999
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-----Original Message-----
From: Horace Heffner <hheffner mtaonline.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping

Nothing wrong with your "Think Tank" Horace, if you don't have the answer at
the moment, I guarantee you'll have after you've been "busy" for a while.
Some VERY BIG names in physics were tutored and/or self-taught.  Newton for
one passed a mechanics course. :-)

Best,   Fred


>At 8:14 AM 3/19/99, Jones Beene wrote:
>[snip]
>>BTW, what ever happened to your idea about using NMR techniques in such a
>>reactor?
>>When you first bounced it around last year, it sounded to me like the
eureka
>>moment for LENR.
>
>Fooled you, huh?  8^)  Just more of my amature blather.  I can see I am
>overdue to make my regular disclaimer.  To avoid having to fill my posts
>with caveats and disclaimers, I have periodically noted that I am totally
>unqualified in physics by work experience or education.  I took one
>freshman course in mechanics in 1962.  That's it.  Everything else beyond
>high school level is self taught, and with much help from fellow vorts.
>Like Fred, I just post most any screwball idea that comes to mind.  The
>main difference is he is qualified to do it.   If I cook up some ideas and
>post it is with the hope somebody can use them or stimulate their own
>thinking.  I am a believer in brainstorming and synergy.  I typically leave
>the critical thinking phase to others.  8^)
>
>I do have a backlog of ideas and experiments I would like to try myself.
>NMR techniques applied to LENR is one of them, but down in the queue for
>now.  I do low budget home experiments from time to time as circumstances
>permit.
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 18:39:19 1999
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	Dear Fred...

	What are you talking about???


On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Frederick J Sparber wrote:

> To: Vortex
> 
> Notice the absence of input by those whose livelihood depends on Public
> Funds;Labs, Contractors, Academia, etc., (or possibly their retirement
> checks,too)?
> 
> The recent flap over security leaks is going to tighten up the e-mail
> comments coming FROM those places.

	What ARE you writing about...

> 
> Oh Well.  :-(
> 
> Regards,   Frederick
> 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 20:05:01 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
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Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:03:02 GMT
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On Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:54:56 +0000, Jones Beene wrote:
[snip]
>Not necessarily -- that is, if NMR is applied to a D plasma or in a cross-field
>reactor. The "bar" of that Deuterium "dumbell" could become a little rubbery, at
>least, that's the theory.
IOW the implication is that it might resonate, and store the energy of
successive photons. Anyone know how to calculate the resonant frequency?

[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
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Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:10:05 GMT
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On Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:47:38 +0000, Jones Beene wrote:
[snip]
>> Any (nuclear) interaction with a another nucleus constitutes a nuclear
>> reaction. Call it fusion/fission, or what you will.
>> The point is that this means that "stripping reactions" are essentially
>> "fusion" reactions (i.e. initially the deuteron starts to merge with
>> another nucleus). So there really isn't any point in trying to establish
>> a semantic distinction between stripping reactions and fusion reactions.
>
>This is precisely where you have missed the point. Yes, the stripping reaction can
>occur in nuclear reactions but can also occur in low energy EM reactions,

Could you point to an example of this, and what evidence is there, that
these are not the result of fusion reactions?
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

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In a message dated 03/19/1999 14:03:22 Pacific Standard Time,
fstenger interlaced.net writes:

  <<snip colliding beam, mooning stuff>>

>  Sigh, these things just keep getting further and further away from a
>  quick weekend-level checkout in my ill-equipped garage facility!
>  I'll have to let Vince carry the ball near-term.  At least he has a
>  vacuum pump!
>  Frank Stenger

Heh!   You are the perfect straight man Frank.  Just was out in the garage
dusting off the experiment this evening.  Hooked up a single oil burner
transformer (10 kV ct  23mA secondary) to see if it would arc thru the quartz
tube. Vacuum pump pulled down real nice after not being used for 9 months and
the transformer worked real  (nice arc in tube)well with no external ballast.

Am I correct that 23 milliamps at 10 kilovolts is 230 watts, or did I drop a
decimal here?

Completely off topic question:  On my cross country drive I found my vehicle
speedometer was reading 5 mph slow, and the odometer only showed 9 tenths of a
mile for each actual mile traveled.  What correction factor do I multiply my
odometer milage by to make the milage come out correct?   1.1?
Or something else?
The nice police officer 20 miles east of Stockton Texas gave me the correction
factor for the speedometer error ("sir, please try to keep it under 85") and
NO ticket!  Very nice police officer, he had me at 99! ( but that I-10 is
endless across Texas).

Vince (back in the kitchen) Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada

Frederick:  So I-40 closed behind me huh?  I am still haunted by that very
interesting ride (slide?) down the grade westbound into Albuquerque. Nuttin'
stop my 'ole 77 Chevy.
Cheers! 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 23:12:49 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
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At 8:03 PM 3/19/99, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>On Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:54:56 +0000, Jones Beene wrote:
>[snip]
>>Not necessarily -- that is, if NMR is applied to a D plasma or in a
>>cross-field
>>reactor. The "bar" of that Deuterium "dumbell" could become a little
>>rubbery, at
>>least, that's the theory.
>IOW the implication is that it might resonate, and store the energy of
>successive photons. Anyone know how to calculate the resonant frequency?

Here is some data of interest:

Isotope   Magnetogyric      NMR Frequency
            Ratio        (MHz Relative to H)
      (10^7 rad T^-1 s^-1)

1H         26.7510           100.000000
2H          4.1064            15.351

Using the above value 4.1064 10^7 rad T^-1 s^-1 I get 6.5355 MHz/T.  It is
fairly easy to get a uniform 0.1 T magnetic field using permanent magnets,
so that would be a resonant frequency of 410,640 Hz in the 0.1 T field.
Local presence of electrons, especially in adjacent covalent bonds, can
greatly complicate the situation.  This comlication is great for chemists
who want to get chemincal bond information, but not good for this
application.  The above might work in plasma form very well. Wouldn't hurt
to consult an expert in NMR spectroscopy for particulars of doing NMR in
solvents or metals.

What is of interest is that, assuming the neutron and proton are somewhat
isolated in the D nucleus, it may be possible to stimulate one relative to
the other.  Here is some frequency data at 1 Tesla (CRC HAndbook, 74th Ed.,
p. 9-156):

Isotope  Freq.

1n       29.1639
1H       42.5764
2H        6.53573
3H       45.4137
2He      32.4352

If you are stimulating D at 42.5764 MHz or 29.1639 MHz then you might tend
to torque one and not the other?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 19 23:13:03 1999
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In a message dated 03/19/1999 14:50:45 Pacific Standard Time,
fjsparb sprintmail.com writes:

> Yes, and a 10 kv 23 ma. ignition transformer off your furnace and one from
>  someone elses.  :-)
>  
>  Regards,  Frederick
It's handy having a son-in-law who is a heating/cooling technician. Thats why
I said ok when he married my daughter!

Regards,
Vince
Las Vegas

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 02:49:46 1999
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Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:56:20 +0200
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From: "JEAN DELAGARDE" <jlagarde cyberaccess.fr>
Subject: Re:  Opinion on Mills' work
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Tom Stolper wrote :

>Jean, what kind of proof do you want beyond laboratory results, including the
>analysis by many different analytical techniques of physical specimens of
>hydrino compounds, combined with instructions showing how to make the
>compounds, as well as excess heat?

For me, a real proof would be a water heater for the excess heat and for
the alleged new compounds, a sample of one of them for testing purposes.
Regarding instructions showing how to make excess heat, I only note that
Scott Little failed to reproduce the experiment and did not get any help
from BLP in spite of of his repeated and insistant demands. Instructions
must not be very clear !

Tom, you seem to be a true believer of BLP'work, but if what he says is
true he made the geatest scientific discovery since the beginning of
science (or at least since uranium fission discovery). How can one imagine
that such a huge thing could be kept inside a single company and that such
a secrecy is needed to the point of preventing an independant lab as
Earthtech to verify the alleged claims. In this respect, I fully agree with
Jed in dismissing BLP's strategy.

In addition, I concur with Ibison in saying that the mathematical
foundation is quite incoherent. The hydrino theory as presented is an
impossible one.

Of course Im am ready to change my point of view if any evidence is
provided in due fashion and time.
                                Jean DeLagarde




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 06:04:04 1999
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Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/stripping
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I don't know, Horace, if the rattling of deuterons at low fields can strip
them, then perhaps feeding microwaves into a waveguide/cavity might be worth
considering.

A couple of choices:

1, A stainless tube partially filled with molten LiH with a melting point of
680 C and dissociation pressure of 27 Torr,spun about a horizontal axis to
create the cavity.

2,A Boron or B4C (boron carbide) tube filled with D2 gas.

The E-field should be something like:
E = (377*watts/area)^1/2 (volts/meter)

One Might see something  with a modified microwave oven magnetron (2.45 Ghz
at a kilowatt). Or you might tap into the signal from the HAARP project.
:-)

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 06:33:34 1999
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Some comments on the comments:


>Tom Stolper wrote :
>
>>Jean, what kind of proof do you want beyond laboratory results, including
the
>>analysis by many different analytical techniques of physical specimens of
>>hydrino compounds, combined with instructions showing how to make the
>>compounds, as well as excess heat?
>
>For me, a real proof would be a water heater for the excess heat and for
>the alleged new compounds, a sample of one of them for testing purposes.

My information is that Mills has produced some 30 grams of hydrino hydrides.
It is very clear from my conversation with him that distributing samples of
these compounds to properly interested parties is a key part of his
strategy. Let properly interested parties test the compounds in their own
facilities. I doubt that he has samples for every casual or skeptical person
yet. He needs to focus on serious investors ready to invest in partnerships
with BLP.

>Regarding instructions showing how to make excess heat, I only note that
>Scott Little failed to reproduce the experiment and did not get any help
>from BLP in spite of  his repeated and insistent demands. Instructions
>must not be very clear !


This assumes that Mills has some kind of inherent obligation to give free
technical support to Scott.

>Tom, you seem to be a true believer of BLP'work, but if what he says is
>true he made the geatest scientific discovery since the beginning of
>science (or at least since uranium fission discovery).

I could also be accused of being a true believer. I'm not. But as with my
reviews of Correa's PAGD, and A&Z's DS cathode CF experiments, I advocate
people looking at what these people actually say, and not coloring their
positions with assumptions about what they should do or say.

How can one imagine
>that such a huge thing could be kept inside a single company and that such
>a secrecy is needed to the point of preventing an independent lab as
>Earthtech to verify the alleged claims.

With Mills publishing his book and posting large sections of it on his Web
site, I don't think this qualifies as "kept inside a single company". Nor
does the move to Princeton and the publication of a business plan actively
soliciting partnerships in a wide range of product applications. Mills has
not "prevented" EarthTech from doing anything.

Note that Mills quickly raised $10.6 Million in private placements from
large corporations. He must have shown the responsible people something more
that "alleged" results. EarthTech's sponsors did not buy into that offering
(I don't know if they were invited). Mills is making his own rules in this
game. They just don't happen to be the rules others expect.

In this respect, I fully agree with
>Jed in dismissing BLP's strategy.


Jed has his own concepts about how entrepreneurs should behave. So far,
Mills has neither failed nor succeeded in a commercial sense. His plan is
there in his Website for all to see. The next year should show how well
founded his plan is. I see him on a tightrope over a chasm.

>In addition, I concur with Ibison in saying that the mathematical
>foundation is quite incoherent. The hydrino theory as presented is an
>impossible one.


I'm not qualified to critique Mills' math and I find his orbitsphere model
confusing. However, he is able to calculate from his model the emission
lines and bumps-on-curves from an impressive array of experimental data from
the general astronomical literature as well as experiments under BLP
sponsorship. Unless someone is able to falsify these assignments
individually and extensively, then the model deserves respectful attention.
Ibison found a 'flaw' and dismissed the rest without examination of the
published experimental data. Conformation with existing theory is not
necessary.

Ibison's dismissal seems similar to the dismissal of Fleischmann & Pons work
because it challenged the existing paradigms. The 10th anniversary issue of
IE has a large section on the careless, caviler, false reports from MIT on
the F&P work. Subscribers to IE on Vortex will be getting their copies soon.

Harold Aspden has built an alternative physics on his understanding to the
aether. Using his models, he is able to calculate the fine structure
constant to the limit of experimental accuracy with a simple algebraic
expression the fits on the back of an envelope. Calculation of this number
from first principles is one of the crowning glories of QM, yet (I
understand) the calculation is convoluted and extensive. Aspden does it in
one simple stroke. By the law of parsimony, he should win; yet he has been
accused of just juggling numbers (as if theoretical model-makers do anything
else!).

>Of course I'm am ready to change my point of view if any evidence is
>provided in due fashion and time.
>                                Jean DeLagarde


An excellent position. But has Jean studied Mills experimental data as
published on the BLP Website?

Mike Carrell



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 06:43:48 1999
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At 12:56 PM 3/20/99 +0200, JEAN DELAGARDE wrote:

>For me, a real proof would be a water heater for the excess heat and for
>the alleged new compounds, a sample of one of them for testing purposes.
>Regarding instructions showing how to make excess heat, I only note that
>Scott Little failed to reproduce the experiment and did not get any help
>from BLP in spite of of his repeated and insistant demands. Instructions
>must not be very clear !

I wouldn't attach much significance to the fact that our experiment didn't
work. We only proved that there are a few ways not to get the excess heat
effect he claims.  I am disappointed that Mills' didn't respond to my
appeals for help at that time but it doesn't mean his excess heat results
are bogus.  

Now, however, we have offered to travel to his facility and perform an
on-site calorimetric test of one of his devices.  As incentive for Mills,
we have promised, in the event of positive results, to connect him with our
sponsor, a private individual with truly enormous resources who is
specifically seeking an new energy discovery.

Mills has still not responded to my last written appeal on this matter.
Soon I will call him.  I will report the results of that conversation here
on Vortex.


Scott Little 
EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 08:33:00 1999
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Tom Stolper writes:

	Mills' business strategy and public relations have been good
	enough to keep his company growing.

But not quickly enough, I fear. At the present rate of progress, Mills
discoveries may not be commercialized in our lifetimes. I am not
exaggerating the time scale. Remember that it took 40 to 60 years to move
things like electric motors, photography and incandescent lights from the
laboratory to the marketplace. People do not think faster or invent faster
than they did in 1810. Progress is no faster, despite what you read in the
newspapers.


	His public relations strategy may be flawed, but then Mills is a
	scientist, not a PR man.  Maybe as his company, BlackLight Power
	(BLP), continues to grow, he'll find room in its budget for an
	experienced, professional public relations person.

That is not what I had in mind. I do not think a PR man would help.


	Mills is aware of the need to work with other outfits and has
	said so in the material on the BLP website.

That is good and I applaud this policy, but the scale of the effort Mills
has in mind is 3 to 5 orders of magnitude too small. Again, I am not
exaggerating. Two years after the Wright Brothers went public in 1908, the
Scientific American reported that more than 500,000 people were working on
aviation. Two years after the Labs revealed the transistor I'm sure there
were similar numbers of people working on them, in hundreds of companies.
That is the scale of effort we must have. One or two companies or even half
dozen may not be enough. Six years ago there were dozens of good
laboratories working on cold fusion. That was not enough to support a
breakthrough. It seems you need a critical mass of intellect focused on the
problem, and you need diversity and disagreements, and many different
approaches. A similar rule applies to the arts. You do not see a burst of
creativity like the Impressionist movement unless many artists are at work.
For every brilliant painter, you need a hundred or 1000 mediocre painters.
You must also have many people from different walks of life who appreciate
painting. Painting and fine arts must be central to society's concerns.
When the first Impressionist paintings were exhibited, people were
outraged, just as they are upset by controversial movies today. A brouhaha
erupted in the press. People had strong opinions. If society had not been
sensitive about painting, and opinionated about it, there would have been
no excitement and no movement for the young painters to latch onto. Whether
society embraces the new art form or attacks it does not matter at first,
as long as you get a paying audience; only indifference is fatal.


	BLP's strategy now, according to the website, is to develop cooperative
arrangements with many companies. It seems to me
	that BLP has already made a good start on its new strategy.  I
	agree that BLP will need lots of help to develop and bring to
	market the major new technologies that the company has
	pioneered, but Mills knows that and is acting on it.

"Many" companies is not enough. Every industrial corporation on earth
should be working on this. Mills should have thousands of cooperative
arrangements already -- literally thousands. When someone like Scott Little
contacts him, he should immediately offer to sell a demonstration kit (at a
profit). This is how innovative companies succeed. When a computer designer
contacts Intel, they offer a processor chip and a development kit. They do
not argue theory with him, or blackball him because he thinks a RISC design
is better than a bloated instruction set. Mills refuses to cooperate with
Little because of theoretical disputes. From a business point of view this
is insane.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 08:46:06 1999
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Continuing the theme of my last message, Mike Carrell writes:

	Jed has his own concepts about how entrepreneurs should behave.
	So far, Mills has neither failed nor succeeded in a commercial
	sense. His plan is there in his Website for all to see. The next
	year should show how well founded his plan is. I see him on a
	tightrope over a chasm.

Yes, I see him the same way -- on a tightrope. I am suggesting that he
should get off the damn tightrope, and return to the chasm with the U.S.
Army Corps of Engineers and 10,000 bulldozers. He should fill in the chasm
and build and eight lane highway across it. The problem is, when he does
this he will have to lose day-to-day control over the development process.
After 1908 the Wright brother's contributions to aviation were
marginalized. After Mills reveals his work to the world and enlists the
help of a thousand industrial corporations, he will earn billions of
dollars and win a Nobel Prize, but he will no longer be the intellectual
center of this development. He will not longer be in a position to lord
over people like Scott Little. There will *be* no intellectual center;
there never is. Bardeen and Shockley were respected after 1952, but they
did not tell people in other companies how to develop transistors. Mills
will be one of thousands, and many people will soon outclass him in some
aspects of the development.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 08:57:52 1999
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 Want to be notified whenever an earthquake occurrs?  Click on the blue link
below to go the site and then fill out the subscription form for free
notification. (actually, it's not free because we all pay taxes and thats what
pays for this service)

Anytime an earthquake occurrs, they fire you off an e-mail notification.
See below a notification i recieved this morning.
Vince
Las Vegas

<A HREF="http://geology.usgs.gov/eq/eq_subscribe.html">Click here: USGS EQ
info -- subscribe</A> 

Subj:	 USGS Earthquake report
Date:	03/20/1999 04:32:30 Pacific Standard Time
From:	info geo-www.er.usgs.gov (USGS Geologic Division)
To:	info geo-www.er.usgs.gov (USGS Geologic Division)

Magnitude 6.8 earthquake near ANDREANOF ISL, ALEUTIAN IS.
51.61N, 177.73W  depth 33.0km  Sat Mar 20 10:47:45 1999 GMT

An earthquake has occurred.  Following is information provided
by the National Earthquake Information Service of the USGS.
This information is preliminary and subject to correction.

Time: GMT Sat Mar 20 10:47:45 1999
     (EST Sat Mar 20 05:47:45 1999)
     (PST Sat Mar 20 02:47:45 1999)

Magnitude: 6.8, determined using its surface wave characteristics
Epicenter: 51.61N, 177.73W (ANDREANOF ISL, ALEUTIAN IS.)
Precision: A, where A is fine and D is coarse.
Depth of focus:  33.0km below sea level at the epicenter.

Note that the depth of focus is given as 33.0km, indicating
that the depth was known to be shallow but could not be determined
precisely.

For a map showing this event, please consult the web page
  <http://wwwneic.cr.usgs.gov/neis/bulletin/990320104745.HTML>

Further info can be obtained from the USGS National Earthquake
Information Center at <http://wwwneic.cr.usgs.gov/>
or the USGS home page at <http://www.usgs.gov/>

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occur that have magnitude
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 12:39:09 1999
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Subject: Re: Opinion on Mills' work
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At 09:02 AM 3/20/99 -0500, Mike Carrell wrote:
>I'm not qualified to critique Mills' math and I find his orbitsphere model
>confusing. However, he is able to calculate from his model the emission
>lines and bumps-on-curves from an impressive array of experimental data from
>the general astronomical literature as well as experiments under BLP
>sponsorship. Unless someone is able to falsify these assignments
>individually and extensively, then the model deserves respectful attention.
>Ibison found a 'flaw' and dismissed the rest without examination of the
>published experimental data. Conformation with existing theory is not
>necessary.
>
>Ibison's dismissal seems similar to the dismissal of Fleischmann & Pons work
>because it challenged the existing paradigms. The 10th anniversary issue of
>IE has a large section on the careless, caviler, false reports from MIT on
>the F&P work. Subscribers to IE on Vortex will be getting their copies soon.
>


  Regarding this thread:
    This issue of IE has Mike Carrell's superb review of
Mills' work (and a lot more).  His writing is elegant and insightful.
I recommend it for those who want to get their thinking organized
about many of the scientific debates pertaining to this subject.

    Given that Mike's article is accompanied by copious writings
by Gene and even an insightful article by Edmund Storms, 
this issue of Infinite Energy is a "keeper".

     Mitchell Swartz


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 12:47:13 1999
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All,      I am ever so glad to be back!

The 10kV ignition transformer looks like the choice for the next runs. Nice
steady arc. Going to leave the arc running in the tube all day to make sure
the transformer is up to continuious duty.  Next to do:

(1)  construct nichrome wire joule heater and use that for heat calibration
baseline.  Will construct heater to heat the same length of the tube that the 
arc does.This will be eyeball but I don't see a better way without enclosing 
the tube in a calorimeter. So these will be  _very_  rough measurments.  
I will also do the joule heater runs with various H2 fill pressures.
I may try to do a joule heater run with some metallic K in the tube also. Not 
sure about K possibly reacting with the heater wire but it's a thought.

(2)  run the arc in H2 , no K at various fill pressures.

(3)  run the arc in H2 with K at various fill pressures.

If this procedure shows a really LARGE temperature difference between H2 no K
/ H2 with K, then I will start thinking about getting calorimeter support.

Thats it for now, must go now and look for a supply of  .040  nichrome wire.

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 13:24:46 1999
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From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 cwnet.com>
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References: <3.0.1.32.19990318174339.009cd2b8 mail.eden.com> <36f2b2d7.79038457@mail-hub> <36F14D2C.319E53AF@cwnet.com> <36f4edd8.54522277@mail-hub> <36F28DAE.2A5E3C66@cwnet.com> <36f3282c.565317@mail-hub>
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

> Could you point to an example of this, and what evidence is there, that
> these are not the result of fusion reactions?

Robin,
I don't know of specific experements that are exactly on point, i.e. the subject of
the experiment was to look for low energy D stripping. However, from the earliest days
of cold fusion there were reports of neutrons at very low energies. Also from
sonofusion.

Again, to clarify our semantics here. The release of a neutron can always be
considered to be a "nuclear" reaction. What we are specifically refering to is
anomolous neutron emission at low energy levels - significantly less than 1MeV for
instance.

And more specifically, in a stripping reactor, if such were ever feasible, we would
probably be very interested in noncoloumb interactions. For instance, in
"photofission," you can get defintely get a heavy nulceus to split following a photon
absortion. You can also strip neutrons this way but the required gammas are very dear,
so the energy balance never swings your way. If we could resonate the very loosely
bound D nucleus, however, say with NMR - then we might get some results from a much
smaller kick. Perhaps UV photons, maybe even microwaves. Hey, I know it sounds far
out, but from a few clues that have been emerging recently, don't rule it out just
yet.

You probalby have been to Dieter Britz's COLD NUCLEAR FUSION BIBLIOGRAPHY
http://kemi.aau.dk/~db/fusion/Unpublished, so I won't list the anomolous low energy
neutron references, but most readers of IE are aware of reports similar to these:

"Neutron Evolution from Annealed Palladium Cathode in LiOD-D20 Solution"
      Tadahiko Mizuno, Tadashi Akimoto,  Norino Sato   June 1 1989   Japan

"Evidence of Emission of Neutrons From a Titanium-Deuterium System"
    A. De Ninno, A. Frattolillo, G. Lollobattista, L. Martinis, M. Martone,
         L. Mori, S. Podda, F. Scaramuzzi
    ENA, Dip. TIB, U.S. Fisica Applicata, Centro Ricerche Energia Frascati,
    C. P. 65-00044 Frascati, Rome, Italy

Regards,
Jones






From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 13:47:37 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/stripping
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At 6:58 AM 3/20/99, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
>I don't know, Horace, if the rattling of deuterons at low fields can strip
>them, then perhaps feeding microwaves into a waveguide/cavity might be worth
>considering.
[snip]
>
>One Might see something  with a modified microwave oven magnetron (2.45 Ghz
>at a kilowatt).

Or maybe you could use a combined approach, with a sufficiently strong magnet.

Stimulating the neutron is easiest because of its lower resonant freq.  At
2.45 GHz you would need a magnetic field of (2450 MHZ)/(29.1639 MHz)(1 T) =
84 Tesla.
Ouch!  Possibly with some of the fancy new high field coils?.  Much easier
to go with a lower frequency.  However, a sufficiently strong magnetic
field could separate the two all by itself!  The stronger the magnetic
field the less external influence required to fission the D2.

A combined NMR + electron pumping approach might work?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 14:47:56 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
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At 8:10 PM 3/19/99, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
[snip]
>Could you point to an example of this, and what evidence is there, that
>these are not the result of fusion reactions?
>[snip]

The stripping reaction in D gas environment is:

  D + D --> D + p + n

The above reaction is essentially a fission reaction, not a fusion
reaction.  It could be looked at as:

  D+ -(D+,D+)-> p+ + n

There does not seem to me to be any source for prolonged loans from the
Heisenberg bank.  It has a much larger cross section than D + D fusion
reactions.  Therefore, there are many more stripped thermalized neutrons to
be expected from Scott's fusor than the high energy fusion neutrons he is
measuring.  He may even have a safety problem on his hands.  This might be
checked by looking for neutron activation in the area?

It seems to me a fair use of the word "stripping" to include any reactions
that similarly fission a D nucleus. In other words reactions of the form:

  D+ -(X,X)-> p+ + n

or:

  D+ -(gamma,X)-> p+ + n

For refs I would suggest a literature search on the Stellerator.  There
were high hopes for it until it was discovered there was a lack of He3 to
correspond to the neutron count, I believe.  I think perhaps it was a
mistake to abandon it, because neutrons have energy value in themselves.
At the time surely no one understood the scale of fusion reactor that would
be required for breakeven.  Really big Stellerators are a lot cheaper to
build than tokamaks. I think the Japanese are now building a large research
stellerator.

Since I am already editorializing:

When you think about the fact that protons end up in metal nucleii, when
the metal is bombarded with 20 KeV D, it really is amazing.  The coulomb
barrier is far greater than for D, the expected approach distance much
further, the expected required tunneling distance therefore much further,
yet the "fusion" rate much higher.  I really do not believe fusion in the
common sense is actualy occuring in the metal lattice from D bombardment.
It logically can not be.  The deuteron may be loose, but only 20 KeV is
available from the collision, and the nucleus is not nearly an angstrom
wide.  It remains a nucleus until fissioned.  I think the stripping is
being facilitated by lattice electrons.  That is to say:

   D+ -(e-,e-)-> p+ + n

It strikes me that stripping (almost entirely) is occuring in the metal
away from the nucleii and therefore whatever mechanism gets the proton into
the metal nucleus in large quantities may be highly related to cold fusion.
Since it is logical that the electron that catalyzes the stripping, and to
some degree forms a momentary dipole bond with the particle stripped, be it
n or p+, reamins momentarily bound to whatever protons stripped, we have a
weakly bound quasi-neutron n* as an explanation for the proton metal
fusion.



Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 15:08:06 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Mills' strategy
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At 11:28 AM 3/20/99, Jed Rothwell wrote:
[snip]
> ... only indifference is fatal.

Great epitaph for the "undead."

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 15:11:29 1999
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Lali Chatterjee wrote:

> Hi Richard,
> I am enclosing a conference announcement.Please circulate it amongst your
> cold fusion newsletter list if you think people may be interested. I have
> not been able to do much on cold fusion recently because of too many
> teaching & faculty commitments. I would like to commend you on keeping
> things alive! Best wishes, Lali Chatterjee.
>  Dear Colleague,
>             We would like invite you to the  Special  Session: Current and
> Future Trends in Nuclear and Particle Physics: Numerical, Mathematical and
> Experimental methods, at the WSES conference on Mathematics and Computers
> in Physics (MCP'99) to be held at Florida Keys (Marathon), July 25-29, 1999
> . This is the first announcement and Call for Contributed Papers.
>       The session details, conference circular and deadlines are attached
> and a text version is included below. Please contact me at
> mcpnpp cumberland.edu if you are interested to participate. Accepted papers
> will be published in a World Scientific Publication.
>             I will be grateful if you please circulate this announcement
> amongst your colleagues, research groups and students.
>        Hope to see you in Florida,  Best Wishes,
>        Lali Chatterjee,  Session Organizer and Chairperson;
>        Professor of Physics & Astronomy, Cumberland University,
>        Lebanon, TN 37087, USA. Fax: 615 444 2569; Ph: 615 444 2562 x1277
>
> Special  Session: Current and Future Trends in Nuclear and Particle
> Physics:
>                   Numerical, Mathematical and Experimental methods.
> to be held during the WSES conference on Mathematics and Computers in
> Physics. (MCP'99) to be held at Florida Keys (Marathon), July 25-29, 1999
> Conference  Sponsored by  : World Scientific and Engineering Society (WSES)
> and
>  Co-Sponsored by the:[Military Institutions of University Education (MIUE)]
> &
>                                  [Hellenic Naval Academy (HNA)]
> Session details can be viewed at our web page: http://www.cumberland.edu/??
>
> Conference details may be viewed at the conference web page:
> http://www.softlab.ntua.gr/~mastor
>
> Special Session:
>           The successful pursuit of nuclear and particle physics
> (experimental and theoretical) has become overwhelmingly dependent on state
> of the art technology involving high speed computing and simulation as well
> as software and hardware engineering support. The session is aimed at
> interfacing some of the sophisticated Numerical, Mathematical and
> Experimental Methods currently used in Nuclear and Particle Physics with
> the Engineering Sciences. Future trends in these growing regions of
> interface, including "Big Science" Experiments will be addressed. The
> session will include experimental (E) and theoretical (T) presentations and
> a panel discussion (P).
>             Projections of future trends necessarily provoke the question
> of tomorrow's physicists and we hope to address the inculcation of talented
> young people to the field and to the interface of physics, engineering and
> technology via a panel discussion.
>            Particle and Nuclear Physics topics include High Energy Physics,
> Astrophysics and Cosmology. Theoretical Section includes: Monte Carlo and
> other Simulation and Numerical Techniques, Computer Algebra, Field Theory,
> Differential Equations, Advanced Group Theory and Statistical Analyses.
> Experimental Section includes: Data Analysis, Simulations and Measurement
> Techniques, along with Technology and Engineering Interfaces.
>
> Session Organizer and Chairperson: Dr. Lali Chatterjee,
>  Professor of Physics & Astronomy, Cumberland University,
> Lebanon, TN 37087, USA. Fax: 615 444 2569; Ph: 615 444 2562 x1277
> Affiliations: Physics Division, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Oak Ridge,
> TN; &
> Department of Physics & Astronomy, University of Tennessee, Knoxville.
>
> Session Deadlines:
> Abstracts:by April 15th to mcpnpp cumberland .edu
> One page abstracts should be submitted to me at mcpnpp cumberland.edu via
> e-mail (not via regular mail) by April 15th, '99 latest. Earlier
> submissions would be appreciated. Instructions for the authors and further
> details can be found at
> http://www.softlab.ntua.gr/~mastor/Kit_physics.htm
>
> Full Paper:by May 4th to mcpnpp cumberland.edu
>
> 1.  Three (3) hard copies of their full paper(s) (together with a 3.5"
> floppy disk containing Postscript File(s) for their paper(s) or - better
> for us - containing Portable Document Formatt *.pdf file as well as
> MicroSoft Word for Windows file *.doc) ) by May 4th, 1999.  Instructions
> of how one can obtain a Postscript File and further details can be found
> at the site http://www.softlab.ntua.gr/~mastor/Kit_physics.htm
>
> 2. The CONSENT TO PUBLISH & TRANSFER OF COPYRIGHT FORM completed and
> signed (the authors should print it directly from the site
> http://www.softlab.ntua.gr/~mastor/copy-confer.htm ). In case of special
> difficulties in printing it, authors should contact:
> mastor ieee.org Authors should complete it carefully and send it to me at
> mcpnpp cumberland.edu  together with their
> 3 hard copies and their floppy disk by the regular mail.
>
> Publication:
>  Later, authors will be called by World Secretariat to submit an
> enriched version of their contribution with one column format in order to
> be included in the post-conference Books that will be published by the
> World Scientific Publishing Company.
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                           Name: mcpnpp0color.doc
>    mcpnpp0color.doc       Type: Winword File (application/msword)
>                       Encoding: base64
>                    Description: mcpnpp0color (Microsoft Word Document)
>
>                                Name: mcpnpptopicscolor.doc
>    mcpnpptopicscolor.doc       Type: Winword File (application/msword)
>                            Encoding: base64
>                         Description: mcpnpptopicscolor (Microsoft Word Document)
>
>                                   Name: mcpnppdeadlinescolor.doc
>    mcpnppdeadlinescolor.doc       Type: Winword File (application/msword)
>                               Encoding: base64
>                            Description: mcpnppdeadlinescolor (Microsoft Word Document)
>
>                                  Name: mcpnppbenefitscolor.doc
>    mcpnppbenefitscolor.doc       Type: Winword File (application/msword)
>                              Encoding: base64
>                           Description: mcpnppbenefitscolor (Microsoft Word Document)

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 15:22:55 1999
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Concerning Jed's comments about Mills strategy:

Jed & I often agree in principle and disagree on details. Jed properly
advocates the power of publicity and the marketplace to amplify the impact
of a discovery. Free-lance entrepreneurs will think of more ways to
implement a gadget or principle than any one person could. We disagree about
when a device or principle is ready for this chain reaction.

An example from Jed's field of expertise. Yes, Intel and others will offer
evaluation kits for every new IC on the block -- which works because there
is a reliable knowledge base for applications. Once upon a year Russia was
trying to make microprocessors -- each sample was accompanied by a list of
instructions that worked on that particular item!!! Imagine trying to do
product development!!! The problem was poor quality control in the fab
plant. There is no substitute for the tens of thousands of man years
necessary to produce a high-yield wafer fab plant.

I think Mills position is well taken. I'm told he has produced 30 grams of
hydrino hydrides. Small portions of this -- milligrams -- should be enough
to convince an analytical chemist of the reality of the product. This IS the
"gadget" that Jed wants to see. Any chemist should be able to see commercial
value in the hydrino hydrides, especially the battery application. They can
take it a run in many directions. If someone -- Exide, Ray-o-Vac, Mallory,
can produce BLP batteries you will see an explosion of applications.

Mills may make a mistake of trying to exert too much control over the
product development and milking the technology for all possible sources of
revenue, thus choking off possibilities.

Mills has made it very clear in his business plan that he expects to have a
parade of press releases marching forth this year and next, so BLP becomes a
household word.

Jed's comments about the development time for new technologies to impact the
society are well taken. They apply to every aspect of the LENR family as
well as BLP. We have seen the painful bumps in the CETI development, which
seemed so promising at PowerGen 95, only to find that the process
fundamentals were not actually under control.

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 17:13:20 1999
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Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 19:15:19 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: H2 w/K glow discharge
In-Reply-To: <e86ebee4.36f40838 aol.com>
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At 03:42 PM 3/20/99 EST, VCockeram aol.com wrote:

>If this procedure shows a really LARGE temperature difference between H2 no K
>/ H2 with K, then I will start thinking about getting calorimeter support.

If you get a really LARGE temperature difference, Vince, I'll just fly out
there and test it for you with my new portable water-flow calorimeter.
Maybe you were gone when I posted the URL of its description:

http://www.eden.com/~little/vwfc/vwfc.html





>
>Thats it for now, must go now and look for a supply of  .040  nichrome wire.
>
>Regards,
>Vince Cockeram
>Las Vegas Nevada
>
>
Scott Little 
EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 17:39:16 1999
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Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 16:46:44 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
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An interesting experiment:

Set up a stripping environment bombarding a AL target with 20 KeV
deuterons, with slow neutron counter.  Apply a 0.1 T field oriented
parallel to the beam.  Laterally perturb the field in the target area using
an orthogonal coil operated at (a) 2.91639 MHz (neutron resonance), (b)
4.25764 (proton resonance), (c) 6.53573 MHz (deuterium resonance), (c) 0
MHz (as a control ), and (d) additionally scan a large frequency range for
good measure.  In each case measure the neutron count.  Place a receiver
coil orthogonal to the other two fields to check target RF emissions for
resonance and for fine tuning.

Alternative method: set stimulating oscillator at fixed frequency and vary
the primary magnetic field strength parallel to the beam with an external
coil, say at 60 Hz.  This provides a nice x-y plot, hoepfully with a
resonace peak in it, but requires counting only in the resonance peak time
slot.

Variations: various targets like loaded Pd, Li, deuterated plastics, etc.

Initial goal is to determine if there is any measureable effect of NMR on
stripping rate.  If an effect is found then a host of other quantifying
experiments may be desireable and justifiable.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 17:41:35 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Stripping experiment (corrected)
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An interesting experiment:

Set up a stripping environment bombarding a AL target with 20 KeV
deuterons, with slow neutron counter.  Apply a 0.1 T field oriented
parallel to the beam.  Laterally perturb the field in the target area using
an orthogonal coil operated at (a) 2.91639 MHz (neutron resonance), (b)
4.25764 (proton resonance), (c) 0.653573 MHz (deuterium resonance), (c) 0
MHz (as a control ), and (d) additionally scan a large frequency range for
good measure.  In each case measure the neutron count.  Place a receiver
coil orthogonal to the other two fields to check target RF emissions for
resonance and for fine tuning.

Alternative method: set stimulating oscillator at fixed frequency and vary
the primary magnetic field strength parallel to the beam with an external
coil, say at 60 Hz.  This provides a nice x-y plot, hopefully with a
resonace peak in it, but requires counting circuitry to count only in the
resonance peak time slot.

Variations: various targets like loaded Pd, Li, deuterated plastics, etc.

Initial goal is to determine if there is any measureable effect of NMR on
stripping rate.  If an effect is found then a host of other quantifying
experiments may be desireable and justifiable.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 17:49:53 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Stripping experiment (corrected again 8^)
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An interesting experiment:

Set up a stripping environment bombarding an Al target with 20 KeV
deuterons, with slow neutron counter.  Apply a 0.1 T field oriented
parallel to the beam.  This should be a uniform field, but need not be not
nearly as uniform as required for spectroscopy.  Laterally perturb the
field in the target area using an orthogonal coil operated at (a) 2.91639
MHz (neutron resonance), (b) 4.25764 (proton resonance), (c) 0.653573 MHz
(deuterium resonance), (d) 0 MHz (as a control ), and (e) additionally scan
a large frequency range for good measure.  In each case measure the neutron
count.  Place a receiver coil orthogonal to the other two fields to check
target RF emissions for resonance and for fine tuning.

Alternative method: set stimulating oscillator at fixed frequency and vary
the primary magnetic field strength parallel to the beam with an external
coil, say at 60 Hz.  This provides a nice x-y plot, hopefully with a
resonace peak in it, but requires counting circuitry to count only in the
resonance peak time slot.

Variations: various targets like loaded Pd, Li, deuterated plastics, etc.

Initial goal is to determine if there is any measureable effect of NMR on
stripping rate.  If an effect is found then a host of other quantifying
experiments may be desireable and justifiable.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 17:50:29 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 02:44:31 GMT
Organization: Improving
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References: <3.0.1.32.19990318174339.009cd2b8 mail.eden.com> <36f2b2d7.79038457@mail-hub> <36F14D2C.319E53AF@cwnet.com> <36f4edd8.54522277@mail-hub> <36F28DAE.2A5E3C66@cwnet.com> <36f3282c.565317@mail-hub> <36F3A09F.334FEB3E@cwnet.com>
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On Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:20:38 +0000, Jones Beene wrote:
[snip]
>Again, to clarify our semantics here. The release of a neutron can always be
>considered to be a "nuclear" reaction. What we are specifically refering to is
>anomolous neutron emission at low energy levels - significantly less than 1MeV for
>instance.

I found one reaction that results in a low energy neutron:

Mg24 + D -> Al25 + n + 47 keV

I realise that this doesn't explain everything, but it does provide at
least one example. I would think that another possibility might be 
"soup" reactions in which multiple nuclei partake, and which also result
in multiple nuclei. I suspect that there is an inherent tendency in
nuclear reactions to avoid mass/energy conversion wherever possible.
I.e. if a mass transmutation can result in new elements with minimal
excess energy, it will. If occasionally a free neutron is part of the
resultant mix, then it would appear reasonable that such would be low
energy neutrons.
>
>And more specifically, in a stripping reactor, if such were ever feasible, we would
>probably be very interested in noncoloumb interactions. For instance, in
>"photofission," you can get defintely get a heavy nulceus to split following a photon
>absortion. You can also strip neutrons this way but the required gammas are very dear,

An indication perhaps that the resonant frequency of the bond is in the
gamma ray energy band?

>so the energy balance never swings your way. If we could resonate the very loosely
>bound D nucleus, however, say with NMR - then we might get some results from a much
>smaller kick. Perhaps UV photons, maybe even microwaves. Hey, I know it sounds far
>out, but from a few clues that have been emerging recently, don't rule it out just
>yet.

I'm not ruling it out, just trying to get a feel for the real size of
things. The further away one is from the resonant frequency, the smaller
is the percentage of the energy of each photon that will be absorbed.
If the resonant frequency of the p-n bond is indeed in the gamma range,
then it doesn't seem very likely that it would be easy to stimulate with
RF radiation.
[snip]
PS I had a go at calculating the resonant frequency based on the known
mass and approximate size of the deuteron, and binding energy (using a
simple harmonic oscillator), and came up with a frequency with an energy
close to the binding energy. (Perhaps if I had done it right, I would
have obtained exactly the binding energy ;( ).
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 19:14:53 1999
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Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 18:23:56 -0900
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Another stripping experiment
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Of interest is the effect of ambient magnetic field orientation on
stripping reactions.  An initial investigation would be to bombard a metal
target in a very strong magnetic field with deuterons.  The experiment
would consist of (a) no magnetic fields (the control), (b) longitudinal
magnetic field and (c) a transverse magnetic field.  In (a) the deuteron
orientation should be randomized at least in the plane normal to the beam.
The beam current itself would tend to orient deutrerons in a circlular
field orientation about the beam though, but not as strongly orient them as
a strong field.

In test (b) the incoming particles should be oriented pole to pole, as
diagrammed in Fig. 1:



     N    N
     |====|
     S    S
        |
        | Incoming beam deuteron
        v

                       ==== - denotes nuclear bond

     N    N
     |====|  Target deuteron
     S    S

   Fig. 1 - Test (b), longitudinal field on target


There should be a strong dipole attraction upon inital close approach,
momentary repulsion on superposition (should it occur), and attraction upon
departure (a low energy momentary bond).

In test (c) the incoming particles are also oriented pole to pole, but
normal to the direction of relative motion, as shown in Fig. (2):


     N    N  Incoming      N    N
     |====|  ------->      |====|  Target deuteron
     S    S  Deuteron      S    S


         ==== - denotes nuclear bond


   Fig. 1 - Test (b), transverse field on target


In this case there should be a dipole repulsion upon inital close approach,
and upon departure, excepting that the dipoles have a chance to flip their
orientation during the exchange.  If this happens we would expect to see a
gamma emission from the fast flip.  There is no possibility for
superposition without a flip due to the Pauli exclusion principle.  If a
flip does occur, then this mode should be much better at stripping than the
longitudinal mode.  The reason for this is that in the incoming stage the
force is repulsive and in the outgoing stage it is attractive.  It is
possible to get all 4 particles doing this, but we would expect by geometry
and repulsion of like charges that the predominate reaction would  involve
only a pair of nucleons of the 4, and those the neutrons in separate
deuterium particles.  The maximum impulse is applied to nucleon separation.
In test (b) there is attraction upon approach and upon departure both.
This has a cancelling effect.  The hypothesis is that test (c) will provide
the highest stripping rate, and will issue more gammas than the other
tests.  It is interesting that under this hypothsis the beam energy must be
*low* enough such that the flip has time to occur.  For this reason it
would be of interest to run the experiment across a range of beam energies.
There should be a point where beam energy optimized, i.e. largest value
that permits a flip with high probability.

Note that both the incoming and target nucleii would each tend to
contribute to the flip.  The flip for each one may not be enough to break
the bond with its nuclear partner, but would weaken the nuclear bonds of
both deuterons.  The amount of flip within a nucleus depends upon the
angular inirtia of the nucleons as much as the beam energy.  If a pair of
neutrons from each nucleus manage to flip and superposition then their
magnetic fields cancel and the bond is broken. What remains momentarily is
the dipole attraction of distant protons and their electrostatic repulsion.

One thing wrong with this theory is that, though the neutrons hang way out
there, they are still part of the nucleus and thus very close.  The coulomb
barrrier greatly exceeds the 20 KeV energy to make any of this happen.
However, the target electrons have a small deBroglie wavelength.  Their
wavelength gets even smaller upon close approach to the deuterium nucleus,
from the incoming nucleus reference frame.  This small wavelength provides
a momentary shield of the proton, permitting much closer approach to target
deuterons.  The stripping collision must be a complex dance.  I surely
don't understand it.  It makes a lot more sense to me that that electrons
should be able to pull it off all by themselves.  Case (c) should also
provide a higher striping count if that be the case, and for the same
reason: repulsion upon approach, flip, and attraction upon departure.
Similarly, there should be an optimal beam energy to make this happen,
enough momentum, yet enough time for the electron to flip.

In any case, it is an interesting experiment.  Maybe it has been done?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 20 21:35:34 1999
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>, John Schnurer <herman@antioch-college.edu>
Subject: Method of tipping investigated.  Data!
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	The practice of tipping has been conducted  in many many 
locations in US and Europe.

	Personal Experiment

	Personal experiment using well known and understood methods are 
reported following;

	1]	The methods used are mature and the effort is, at this 
time, a replication.  
	2]	There was not one recorded failure in a set of runs.  7 
sets were run on 7 different days.
	Each run yielded data and during each run the experimental 
procedure remained the same, as described, below:

	NOTE Important:  All runs were conducted in the DARK, after 1 AM
in the morning. The large majority of runs, ~70 percent plus, were conducted 
between the times  of 2:30 AM to 3:45 AM

	a]	Tipping.  The cow was "pushed" from the side to tip it over.
	b]	The cow was asleep at the beginning of each event.
	c] 	In EVERY CASE the cow remained asleep during the fall.
	d] 	To the best of our knowledge we sampled ordinary cows all over
		the county.
	e]	The cows were VERY VERY surprised to find themselves
		tipped over and on their sides for no reason and only awoke
		after striking the ground.  Not all of the cows woke up right
		away. Some cows did nit awaken right away.

	Conclusion:

	Tipping surprises cows.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 21 06:17:38 1999
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Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 05:25:44 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
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At 5:44 PM 3/20/99, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>On Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:20:38 +0000, Jones Beene wrote:
>[snip]
>>Again, to clarify our semantics here. The release of a neutron can always be
>>considered to be a "nuclear" reaction. What we are specifically refering to is
>>anomolous neutron emission at low energy levels - significantly less than
>>1MeV for
>>instance.
>
>I found one reaction that results in a low energy neutron:
>
>Mg24 + D -> Al25 + n + 47 keV
>
>I realise that this doesn't explain everything, but it does provide at
>least one example.
[snip]

This is an example fusion, not stripping.  There is no anomalous energy
here.  The classical stripping reaction:

  D+ -(D+,D+)-> p+ + n

requires only 20 KeV to pull off.


>PS I had a go at calculating the resonant frequency based on the known
>mass and approximate size of the deuteron, and binding energy (using a
>simple harmonic oscillator), and came up with a frequency with an energy
>close to the binding energy. (Perhaps if I had done it right, I would
>have obtained exactly the binding energy ;( ).


There is no source for 2.2 Mev gammas in stripping reactions.  Right?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 21 06:37:11 1999
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From: Tstolper aol.com
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Vince,

Welcome back, and congratulations on getting 6,000 cross-country miles and 99
mph out of a '77 Chevy and living to tell about it (or should that be 6,000 X
1.111111.... = 6,666.66... miles?).

Re the experimental setup:  what would be the minimum input power (minimum
number of watts) that would maintain a continuous arc across a 1/2 inch gap in
your cell?

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 21 06:37:36 1999
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In his message Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:56:20 +0200, Jean Delagarde wrote
that I seemed to be "a true believer of BLP's work."

Yes, I do think that the electrolytic excess heat work of Mills has been
replicated widely enough to be regarded as proven.  I don't need dozens or
hundreds of studies to convince me of something.  Just a few good ones that I
can understand will do.  Of course, dozens more would be better.

Since I am favorably disposed toward Mills' work, I'm also convinced of the
excess heat from his gas-phase cells, although as far as I know, that hasn't
been published in a peer-reviewed journal yet.

Jean also wrote that for him, proof of excess heat would be a water heater.
If that means a commercial water heater, then that seems to me to be an
awfully high standard, but I suppose an inevitable one, because so many people
have said or implied that a commercial water heater would soon be developed.
As we all know, it still hasn't been.

I don't know enough about chemistry or chemical engineering to defend the
hydrino hydride compounds from a scientific point of view, but it seems to me
that they're already a very good bet.  Mills has made physical samples of
hydrino hydride compounds.  On the BLP website, and in the January 1999
edition of his book, Mills has published a lot of evidence for their unique
properties, evidence produced by various analytical techniques.  I hope that
he or the other people who are studying the compounds will publish the results
elsewhere, but I can't think of a journal that would publish such novel
results.  As far as mainstream science is concerned, there are no such things
as hydrinos, let alone hydrino hydride compounds.

I agree with Mike Carrell that Mills' work can hardly be regarded as secret.
He published his electrolytic excess heat work in three articles in FUSION
TECHNOLOGY and has published much of his other work on the BLP website and in
the new, January 1999 edition of his book, which is over 1,000 pages long.  He
has also worked with lots of people outside his own company.

However, I agree with Jean Delagarde that it is regrettable that Mills hasn't
agreed to let Scott Little test his excess heat cells.  I can understand why
Mills hasn't agreed, though.  In my opinion, Scott hasn't done Mills the
courtesy of taking his work seriously.  The material on Scott's website shows
that Scott didn't take the trouble to follow the directions that Mills
published.  Even a non-techie like me could spot serious mistakes, so I
imagine that the people at BLP were even less favorably impressed.  BLP is
still a small company, and I'd guess that the people there have all they can
do to keep up with those who already know how to make Mills-type cells work.

I also don't know enough mathematics to defend Mills' theoretical derivation
of the hydrino states of hydrogen, but I think that he has now produced a
mountain of empirical evidence for their existence.

Jean, are you a physicist?  (I'm not, just a layman who did the B.A. in math
and took some courses in physics and chemistry, too, but so long ago that I've
forgotten almost everything.)

Tom Stolper

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From: "Frederick J Sparber" <fjsparb sprintmail.com>
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-----Original Message-----
From: Horace Heffner <hheffner mtaonline.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping


Horace wrote:

>
>The classical stripping reaction:
>
>  D+ -(D+,D+)-> p+ + n
>
>requires only 20 KeV to pull off.

A lot less than that, Horace. Stripping can occur at less than 1.0 ev. This
is getting at the very heart of the Cold Fusion (F&P)/OU Heat and
Sonoluminescence/Neutron Phenomena.

Something is "catalyzing" the "QM Tunneling" through the Coulomb Barrier:
F = k*Z1*Z2*q^2/R^2, and it isn't the Oppenheimer-Phillips effect that you
are alluding to.
>
>
>There is no source for 2.2 Mev gammas in stripping reactions.  Right?

Right! And there are NO 20 kev particle energies in the Pd, Ni, or Ti
lattices. :-)


Regards,   Frederick
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner
>
>
>

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For your contemplation,Horace.

The Neutron decays to a Proton, Electron, and AntiNeutrino with a particles
energy of 0.782 Mev.

I can't see any sense in the argument that the electron is going to go up
against this rejection barrier as "Fractional Orbit" energy greater than the
13.6 ev Ground State Potential energy plus the 13.6 ev "kinetic energy" of
the Ground state electron, thus V = -kq/R = -27.22 ev at the ground state
orbital radius,R = 5.29E-11 meters.

However, at 1.0 ev (11,600K) if you use Saha's equation:

Log10 (Ni^2)/No = -5040*Vi/T+Log10T+15.385

Where Vi is the ionization energy and No is the
number of atoms/molecules per unit volume:

2.69E19*P*To/Po*T you will see that the number of D+ or H+ or K+ ions become
appreciable at 1.0 ev (11,600 K).

No matter if F&P, Mills, Ceti, George, Swartz, or whomever, are without a
correct theory as to what Nature is Doing to wipe out the Repulsive Coulomb
Force;

F = k*Z1*Z2*q^2/R^2 or barrier energy

W = k*Z1*Z2*q^2/R,if Z1 or Z2 goes to zero, the coulomb barrier force or
energy goes to zero.

Relativistic Electrodynamics shows that as particles that Repel lose their
repulsion as they approach c, This has been proven with relativistic
particle beams, and explains how the short range forces allow proton-proton
binding in the nucleus, but you have to get inside the coulomb barrier
first.

You are NOT going to do this with D+ - (D - D)reactions at 20 kev.

You tell me what is going on at 1.0 ev or less in the F&P Cell etc., that is
allowing this.  :-)

Regards, Frederick


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Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
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At 8:30 AM 3/21/99, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>>There is no source for 2.2 Mev gammas in stripping reactions.  Right?
>
>Right! And there are NO 20 kev particle energies in the Pd, Ni, or Ti
>lattices. :-)

Actually there are ocasionally - in cosmic rays.  But for that to be part
of the solution there must be a chain reaction.  For such a chain reaction
to be an ingredient in an explanation for LENR, LENR would have to involve
combined and stealthy reactants, i.e. n, or n*, plus low energy betas or
gammas, a very strange chain.  Of course, we are plowing over old ground
here.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
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At 9:46 AM 3/21/99, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
>For your contemplation,Horace.
>
[snip good argument].
>
>You tell me what is going on at 1.0 ev or less in the F&P Cell etc., that is
>allowing this.  :-)

You have just made my case for the involvement of electrons in the process.
The coulomb barrier is not there for them.  Not a new idea in either the
case of shielding or involvement in quasi-neutrons n*, or even n-n*
doublets, but I've even had my share of speculation along those lines too.

One thing of interest is the fact striping occurs more easily when D+ are
shot at metal targets than when deuterated targets are shot at with
electrons.  It must be the density of the electrons in the metal target
that makes the difference.  The Kamada et al experiment offers support for
this argument.  The only way beam density could be an important factor is
if a stepwise incremental  process were happening.  It is also interesting
that isolated and really hot limited time CF "events" and heat after death
events occur frequently in the CF literature.  This is characteristic of a
chain reaction, or possibly of some stepwise nuclear energy storage process
that builds to a point and under just the right circumstances is triggered
to synergistically, slowly, and benevolently "explode."  It could be
formation of a critical density of interstitial bose condensates, which,
for reasons stated in the past, should be triggered to special kinds of
waveform collapse upon stimulation by a comparatively high energy particle.
Perhaps with the right target conditioning a much better stripping yield
could be had or some other low energy reaction could be favored.
Fundamental research on d-beam induced reaction rates in targets of various
kinds in various magnetic conditions seems like a possible way out of the
woods, to find theoretical keys to what is happening.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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-----Original Message-----
From: Horace Heffner <hheffner mtaonline.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping

Horace wrote:


>At 8:30 AM 3/21/99, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
>[snip]
>>
>>Right! And there are NO 20 kev particle energies in the Pd, Ni, or Ti
>>lattices. :-)
>
>Actually there are occasionally - in cosmic rays.  But for that to be part
>of the solution there must be a chain reaction.  For such a chain reaction
>to be an ingredient in an explanation for LENR, LENR would have to involve
>combined and stealthy reactants, i.e. n, or n*, plus low energy betas or
>gammas, a very strange chain.  Of course, we are plowing over old ground
>here.

Yes, but there are about 3.2E10 Neutrinos/cm^2/sec hitting the Earth Every
Day (for Billions of years)and since they have an affinity for positive
charges they can be absorbed by a Proton P+ or Deuteron D+ with the larger
radius K+ reducing their Radius R = kq^2/Energy ~= 28 Angstroms for a 0.5 ev
rest mass neutriono,so that they can be absorbed by a Proton or Deuteron and
released in a GAMMALESS/ANEUTRONIC CF/LENR Reaction.

Ever wonder why the SNO, SuperKam (and other) neutrino detectors located
over a mile underground only see a few "HOT NEUTRINOS"/day? :-)

For a neutrino to "orbit a P+ or D+:

Mrel = Mo[(E'/0.5)+1]  Mo = 0.5/c^2
and E' = kq/Ro where Ro is the fractional orbit radius around a P+ or D+.

F centripetal = Mrel*c^2/R = Fes = kq'q/R^2 says that R = kq'q/Mrel*c^2

Those neutrinos just don't get any Respect. :-)

I think I'm allergic to them also.  :-)

Regards,   Frederick
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 21 12:23:57 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
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At 11:09 AM 3/21/99, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>
>Ever wonder why the SNO, SuperKam (and other) neutrino detectors located
>over a mile underground only see a few "HOT NEUTRINOS"/day? :-)
>
>For a neutrino to "orbit a P+ or D+:
>
>Mrel = Mo[(E'/0.5)+1]  Mo = 0.5/c^2
>and E' = kq/Ro where Ro is the fractional orbit radius around a P+ or D+.
>
>F centripetal = Mrel*c^2/R = Fes = kq'q/R^2 says that R = kq'q/Mrel*c^2
>
>Those neutrinos just don't get any Respect. :-)


Fred, you are starting to make sense to me, and that is frightening!  8^)

One problem with the neutrino hypothesis is that it is only part of the
picture at best, unless neutrino storms account for the CF "events."  We
need to know the other variables that make the right setting for the energy
production.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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From: BriggsRO aol.com
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In a message dated 3/19/99 10:53:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, Tstolper aol.com
writes:

<< n message Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:24:11 -0500, Jed Rothwell wrote that
 although he remained impressed by some of the papers in FUSION TECHNOLOGY and
 by Thermacore's presentation at MIT in 1992:
 
 "I dismiss Mills' business strategy and his public relations. I think they
 are fatally flawed, although I have to admit, he seems to have gathered a
 great deal of capital. >>


I believe that Mills has a pretty good track record as a technical business
man.  He has started and run several successful companies based on his own
medical technology so one must assume some business sense.  Until otherwise
demonstrated, I will withhold conclusions on either his technical or business
competence.

Bob Briggs

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Frederick J Sparber wrote:
 
 Ever wonder why the SNO, SuperKam (and other)
 neutrino detectors located
 over a mile underground only see a few "HOT NEUTRINOS"/day? :-)
 
 Horace Heffner wrote:
 
 One problem with the neutrino hypothesis is that it is only part of the
 picture at best,

Hi Horace and Frederick,

The deuteron stripping thread was going so nicely;
and now these pesky neutrinos are showing up.

SuperK may not see many neutrinos because what
they see is not distinguishable from backgroud
noise, except by outrageous torturing of the data.

Jack Smith

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 21 13:11:12 1999
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Horace Heffner wrote:

> An interesting experiment: ....Apply a 0.1 T field oriented parallel to the
> beam.  Laterally perturb the field in the target area usingan orthogonal coil
> operated at (a) 2.91639 MHz (neutron resonance), (b) 4.25764 (proton
> resonance), (c) 0.653573 MHz (deuterium resonance), (c) 0 MHz (as a control ),
> and (d) additionally scan a large frequency range forgood measure.  In each
> case measure the neutron count... Initial goal is to determine if there is any
> measureable effect of NMR on stripping rate.  If an effect is found then a
> host of other quantifying experiments may be desireable and justifiable.

Perhaps we could get some very immediate satisfaction and input (or else put an
end to our speculative ramblings) if we could talk Scott into adding a few
features to his already running experiment...    :-)

1) First and foremost: borrow a sensitve BF3 counter and run it in conjunction
with the scintillator.  If few thermal neutrons are detected - end of story; the
dreamers can pack up and move onto their next save-the-world vision.

1.a.) If, as Horace and I suspect, the thermal neutron rate is high (perhaps
even exceeding the previously observed 2+MeV neutron rate, then a couple of very
immediate measures are in order; to wit, radiation badges, some cadmium steel or
borated shielding, and a quick call to the insurance agent to make sure the
policies are paid up  :- [    sorry, bad taste!

1.b.) If the thermal rate is moderate and/or when everything important in the
immediate area is safe from activation, set up a high frequency coil in front of
the window with a pulse generator and/or RF transciever. The shielding grid on
the inner side of the window will be a problem to overcome if we want to proceed
with some resonace testing.

2) Proceed with the testing as Horace outline above.

2.a.) If the resonace does indeed fire up the thermal neutron count, then a few
other ideas will immediately pop up, such as adding harmonics and/or beat
frequencies with additional coils (actually, many other methods come to mind but
I'll try to keep things as simple as possible) so we can get the most intense
pertubation between the p and n in that nucleus.

Any takers?

Regards,
Jones






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In a message dated 3/20/99 6:33:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, mikec snip.net
writes:

<< This assumes that Mills has some kind of inherent obligation to give free
 technical support to Scott.
  >>
 
Maybe not free technical support, but at least the courtesy of a reply to a
fellow professional's communication.  I had a similar experience in attempting
to clarify a point of confusion on something Mills wrote. His response: "Too
busy now.  Get back to you later."  Then nothing more.  I don't necessarily
think he is dissembeling or hiding.  Just not very sociable.

Bob Briggs

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In a message dated 3/20/99 6:43:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, little eden.com
writes:

<< Soon I will call him.   >>
Go Scott!

Bob

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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:58:14 GMT
Organization: Improving
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On Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:09:51 -0700, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
[snip]

>Yes, but there are about 3.2E10 Neutrinos/cm^2/sec hitting the Earth Every
>Day (for Billions of years)and since they have an affinity for positive
>charges they can be absorbed by a Proton P+ or Deuteron D+ with the larger

Hi Fred, this is the second time (I think) that you have slipped this in
;). Exactly how do you come by the notion that neutrinos have an
affinity for positive charges (as opposed to negative)?
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

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Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:05:13 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: stripping
Cc: Richard Hull <rhull richmond.infi.net>
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I found a brief passage in the Britannica, immediately following a
discussion of the resonance energy phenomena in nuclear reactions:

"There is another class of reactions in which the projectile, such as a
deuteron or triton, as it flies by the target nucleus is either stripped of
one or more of its nucleons, which are deposited in the target to make the
product nucleus, or picks up one or more nucleons from the target as it
goes by.  These "stripping" and "pickup" reactions do not show sharp
resonances, there being no compound nucleus involved; but there are sharply
defined energies of the outgoing particles, corresponding to states of the
product nucleus, when the bombarding energy is definite.  A typical
stripping reaction is the reaction in which an incident deuteron drops its
neutron into the target nucleus and the remaining proton flies off at an
angle from the incident direction."

This makes sense to me.  You've got the reaction with the target nucleus to
make the energetics work out right.  

Note that they don't mention neutrons being stripped from deuterons and
left free.  I still can't see how that process, which requires 2.2 Mev per
released neutron can happen by just banging deuterons together at ~40 keV.


Scott Little 
EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 21 14:10:40 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:09:02 GMT
Organization: Improving
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On Sun, 21 Mar 1999 05:25:44 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote:
[snip]
>>I found one reaction that results in a low energy neutron:
>>
>>Mg24 + D -> Al25 + n + 47 keV
>>
>>I realise that this doesn't explain everything, but it does provide at
>>least one example.
>[snip]
>
>This is an example fusion, not stripping.  There is no anomalous energy
>here.  

The fact that there is no anomalous energy speaks for rather than
against this interpretation IMO.

>The classical stripping reaction:
>
>  D+ -(D+,D+)-> p+ + n
>
>requires only 20 KeV to pull off.

But the problem is that you can't know for a fact that this is indeed
the reaction that happens. The neutrons may be being produced by fusion
reactions involving the walls of the container. I.e. the entire concept
of stripping may be a red herring.
(There is always a "container" - though it may comprise in part the mass
of the neutron detector).

>
>
>>PS I had a go at calculating the resonant frequency based on the known
>>mass and approximate size of the deuteron, and binding energy (using a
>>simple harmonic oscillator), and came up with a frequency with an energy
>>close to the binding energy. (Perhaps if I had done it right, I would
>>have obtained exactly the binding energy ;( ).
>
>
>There is no source for 2.2 Mev gammas in stripping reactions.  Right?

Perhaps a strong indicator that they don't exist?
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

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In a message dated 3/21/99 6:35:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, Tstolper aol.com
writes:

<< The material on Scott's website shows
 that Scott didn't take the trouble to follow the directions that Mills
 published.  Even a non-techie like me could spot serious mistakes, so I
 imagine that the people at BLP were even less favorably impressed.  >>

Tom,

Now I'm curious.  What were Scott's serious mistakes in trying to replicate
Mill's reactor?  I recall that Scott tried some deviations from Mills'
configuration in an attempt to get results, but Scott was obviously a
responsible investigator, not a frivolous amateur.

Has anyone replicated Mills' results from scratch?

Bob Briggs   

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From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: Stripping experiment/ EarthTech
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At 01:08 PM 3/21/99 +0000, Jones Beene wrote:

>1) First and foremost: borrow a sensitve BF3 counter and run it in
conjunction
>with the scintillator.

I've got a 3He counter which should be similarly sensitive to thermal
neutrons (I think).  I can try it next to the chamber tomorrow.  I've
already demonstrated that it is about 140 times less sensitive to fast
neuts than my plastic scintillator.

>1.a.) If, as Horace and I suspect, the thermal neutron rate is high (perhaps
>even exceeding the previously observed 2+MeV neutron rate, then a couple
of >very immediate measures are in order; to wit, radiation badges....

It'd have to be a LOT higher than the present fast neutron flux (~0.1
mrem/hr).  Thermals are significantly less damaging biologically than fast
neutrons.


Scott Little 
EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 21 14:32:19 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Stripping experiment/ EarthTech
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At 4:08 AM 3/21/99, Jones Beene wrote:
[snip]
>1.b.) If the thermal rate is moderate and/or when everything important in the
>immediate area is safe from activation, set up a high frequency coil in
>front of
>the window with a pulse generator and/or RF transciever. The shielding grid on
>the inner side of the window will be a problem to overcome if we want to
>proceed
>with some resonace testing.
[snip]

There is a missing ingredient.  That is the 0.1 T (or something similar)
strong field for the the high frequency transverse field to perturb to get
NMR.

I wonder what this strong field, assuming it can be imposed, would do to
the operation of Scott's device?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Stripping experiment/ EarthTech
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:30:21 GMT
Organization: Improving
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On Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:13:36 -0600, Scott Little wrote:
[snip]
>It'd have to be a LOT higher than the present fast neutron flux (~0.1
>mrem/hr).  Thermals are significantly less damaging biologically than fast
>neutrons.

I find this rather strange, because thermal neutrons almost always have
a larger capture cross section than fast neutrons. Ergo, one would
expect them to be more likely to produce a reaction. Perhaps however if
this reaction occurs in the outer layers of the skin (which is normally
replaced soon anyway), the resultant damage is "repaired"?
[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: stripping
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:41:38 GMT
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On Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:05:13 -0600, Scott Little wrote:

>I found a brief passage in the Britannica, immediately following a
>discussion of the resonance energy phenomena in nuclear reactions:
>
>"There is another class of reactions in which the projectile, such as a
>deuteron or triton, as it flies by the target nucleus is either stripped of
>one or more of its nucleons, which are deposited in the target to make the
>product nucleus, or picks up one or more nucleons from the target as it
>goes by.  These "stripping" and "pickup" reactions do not show sharp
>resonances, there being no compound nucleus involved; but there are sharply
>defined energies of the outgoing particles, corresponding to states of the
>product nucleus, when the bombarding energy is definite.  A typical

Does this mean that e.g. a thermal neutron can result from such a
fusion/fission reaction, by leaving the other nucleus in an excited
state?

>stripping reaction is the reaction in which an incident deuteron drops its
>neutron into the target nucleus and the remaining proton flies off at an
>angle from the incident direction."
>
>This makes sense to me.  You've got the reaction with the target nucleus to
>make the energetics work out right.  
>
>Note that they don't mention neutrons being stripped from deuterons and
>left free.  
>I still can't see how that process, which requires 2.2 Mev per
>released neutron can happen by just banging deuterons together at ~40 keV.

I think normal D - D fusion starts at about 5 keV, and has an optimum at
100-150 keV. (Even hot fusion depends primarily on tunnelling).
[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 21 14:46:27 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: stripping
Cc: Richard Hull <rhull richmond.infi.net>
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At 4:05 PM 3/21/99, Scott Little wrote:

>Note that they don't mention neutrons being stripped from deuterons and
>left free.  I still can't see how that process, which requires 2.2 Mev per
>released neutron can happen by just banging deuterons together at ~40 keV.

Neither did the operators of the Stellerator. They got elevated neutron
counts all the same, I believe.   It would be good to locate a reference,
though.  Its all hearsay from me.  8^)   Project Sherwood is another
possible keyword for reference.

What were the pinch projects all about you mentioned Fred?

I will say this, in terms of a D + D reaction, the "origninal" stripping
reaction, the dumping of the neutron to a nucleus inthe transaction makes
no sense at all.  That would clearly be fusion, so the term in its original
context would have no meaning at all.

Could it be there is some deep dark secret hiding in the bushes?  Maybe
it's just con-fusion on my part.  8^)

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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Scott Little wrote:

> I've got a 3He counter which should be similarly sensitive to thermal
> neutrons (I think).  I can try it next to the chamber tomorrow.  I've
> already demonstrated that it is about 140 times less sensitive to fast
> neuts than my plastic scintillator.

Scott,
Find a new home for that puppy ;-)  Seriously, it couldn't be woking properly
with those numbers, could it?

> It'd have to be a LOT higher than the present fast neutron flux (~0.1
> mrem/hr).  Thermals are significantly less damaging biologically than fast
> neutrons.

Quite true, and forgive me for sounding like an alarmist, but do you remember
the report from last summer ( Dr. George Miley of the Fusion research center at
the U. of Ill (USA) has built a "Farnsworth Fusor"... which produces 10^10
neutrons per second from the D-D reaction. Plans are (with Daimler Benz) to
market the device as a "controlled neutron source."

I feel pretty certain that Miley's machine is a step up from yours on the power
curve, (approx. same voltage though, so I'm not sure). I guess the crux of my
earlier post was "let prudence prevail," at least when you're dealing with
health issues. BTW, maybe I'm giving away my age, but I remember seeing Philo T.
Farnswoth  years ago on TV  on “What’s My Line?” By that time, a pathetic little
man who mumbles casually that he invented TV (you could practically hear million
of households accross America uttering: "Oh sure you did, Philo"). And he did
seem to age rather rapidly towards the end... building fusors, of course. Never
mind... when all is said and done, he’ll be remebered as one of the great ones
of this century - or any other.

So... here is prudence mumbling, "what if those 10^4 fast neutrons per second
that you measured were accompanied by 10^6 thermal neutrons ?" Perhaps not quite
'the paradox of the healthy lab assistant,' at least not for a one time thing,
but I wouldn't want to take a nap next to it.

At any rate, if you'r interested in moving on in this direction, I'll scrounge
around and try to help you find a good counter. What do you think of the Heffner
NMR add-ons to your experiment?

Regards,
Jones Beene



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 21 17:00:21 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Stripping experiment/ EarthTech
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At 6:21 AM 3/21/99, Jones Beene wrote:
[snip]
>At any rate, if you'r interested in moving on in this direction, I'll scrounge
>around and try to help you find a good counter. What do you think of the
>Heffner
>NMR add-ons to your experiment?


BTW, achiving NMR resonance around all that metal seems about impossible to
me.  I really like the idea of a beam device personally, and D loaded
metals for targets.  There must be *something* interesting to do with
Scott's fusor though.  At this point I think even confirmation of a large
number of thermal or near thermal neutrons would be a major thing.

I would attempt a literature search on Stellerators, etc, but am not headed
to Anchorage for a while.  Will be busy with family things for some time.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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-----Original Message-----
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping

Robin wrote:


>On Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:09:51 -0700, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
>[snip]
>
>>Yes, but there are about 3.2E10 Neutrinos/cm^2/sec hitting the Earth Every
>>Day (for Billions of years)and since they have an affinity for positive
>>charges they can be absorbed by a Proton P+ or Deuteron D+ with the larger
>
>Hi Fred, this is the second time (I think) that you have slipped this in
>;).

Don't be surprised if that 267 Km/sec "cyclone"
headed for the Northwest corner of your continent is being boosted by Solar
Neutrinos.

>Exactly how do you come by the notion that neutrinos have an
>affinity for positive charges (as opposed to negative)?

I Think that the 4 protons---> He4 + e+ + 2 Positron Neutrinos or Proton +
Proton ---> Deuterium + e+ plus a Neutrino strongly suggests that the
Positron Neutrino has an affinity for a positive charge the same as the
Antineutrino seems to have an affinity for the negative electron (e-).

Besides, I think if you look for them when Positron-Electron pairs are made
you might find a Neutrino-Antineutrino Pair with the same charge as the
electron or positron but phase shifted 90 degrees from them. Same goes for
the high energy Muon and Tau Neutrinos-Antineutrinos.

Lay out a y = sin x and y = cos x set of curves and see what happens when
you overlay them.  :-)

Mother Nature Loves Symmetry, But she doesn't appreciate you looking up her
skirt or determining the laws of Physics by Popular Vote. :-)

Regards,   Frederick
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 21 19:39:14 1999
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In a message dated 03/21/1999 06:36:57 Pacific Standard Time, Tstolper aol.com
writes:
> Re the experimental setup:  what would be the minimum input power (minimum
>  number of watts) that would maintain a continuous arc across a 1/2 inch gap
> in your cell?
>  Tom Stolper

Now thats a good question Tom. With the old DC power supply I was able the
measure input power with fair accuracy with suitable voltage dividers and
digital meters (smoked two of those before bridging the meters with zener
diodes).
  
The new power supply (oil burner ignition transformer) specs:
      INPUT 120 volts 250 VA......is that 250 watts?
    OUTPUT 10 kv  at 23 milliamps......230 watts?
Now, is that 230 watts output through a short?  or if not a short then what
resistance?  I don't know
AC is darn hard to measure but I  _do_  want AC to the tube (better mixing up
the ingrediants, no?)

I am using a 10 amp capacity variac to control power to the high voltage
transformer primary.  I get an arc through the tube at an indicated input
voltage to the HV transformer of   ~55 volts.(analog meter)
For now (actually when I get the calibration runs completed) I plan to run the
input at full line voltage input to the HV supply (120 v).

Wish list: I would love to get a hold of a really HIGH voltage, low current
(~3 to 5mA)
 transformer. Somewhere in the ballpark of 50~80 kV!
Or how about the high voltage supply from on of those plasma ball displays
that Radio Shack is now selling for about 25 bucks. 
Enuf rambling.

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas  

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In a message dated 03/21/1999 08:52:26 Pacific Standard Time,
fjsparb sprintmail.com writes:

> You tell me what is going on at 1.0 ev or less in the F&P Cell etc., that is
>  allowing this.  :-)
>  
>  Regards, Frederick
 
  This is just a hunch guys, but I think Dr. Randy Mills is on the right track
and will explain all excess heat and nuclear products. NOT in the fusor
though!
  I have thick skin so rock throwing at me is permitted. :)
  Hey, it's just a hunch!

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 21 19:51:49 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
Cc: <rjmeleski juno.com>
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At 6:57 PM 3/21/99, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>Mother Nature Loves Symmetry, But she doesn't appreciate you looking up her
>skirt or determining the laws of Physics by Popular Vote. :-)

If she is aleady engaged in stripping what's a little look up her skirt? 8^)

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 21 19:58:29 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Stripping experiment/ EarthTech
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At 4:08 AM 3/21/99, Jones Beene wrote:
[snip]
>1) First and foremost: borrow a sensitve BF3 counter and run it in conjunction
>with the scintillator.  If few thermal neutrons are detected - end of
>story; the
>dreamers can pack up and move onto their next save-the-world vision.


This is a great idea.  If the cross section truly is so much bigger than
for fusion there should be a bunch of them.

Perhaps I should air out my suitcase ...

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 21 20:20:50 1999
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Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:44:39 -0600
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From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: Stripping experiment/ EarthTech
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At 03:21 PM 3/21/99 +0000, Jones Beene wrote:

>So... here is prudence mumbling, "what if those 10^4 fast neutrons per second
>that you measured were accompanied by 10^6 thermal neutrons?"

I definitely agree that it's worth checking out.  BTW, I used to be
Radiation Safety Officer at ASOMA Instruments so I have at least some idea
of what I'm up against here.

> What do you think of the Heffner
>NMR add-ons to your experiment?

I hope to have a chance to try some of that.  BTW, my neighbor, Dennis
Letts suggested essentially that same thing to me last week.

If you can find a BF3 counter, Jones, I'd definitely be interested in
getting one.


Scott Little 
EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

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In a message dated 03/20/1999 17:13:06 Pacific Standard Time, little eden.com
writes:

> If you get a really LARGE temperature difference, Vince, I'll just fly out
>  there and test it for you with my new portable water-flow calorimeter.
>  Maybe you were gone when I posted the URL of its description:
>  http://www.eden.com/~little/vwfc/vwfc.html
>  Scott Little 
>  EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
>  512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
>  little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little
 
OK Scott,  I will be posting all raw data here on Vortex-L.  If it turns out a
visit is needed to sort it out, you would be most welcome to stay here at the
house ( I have two spare bedrooms.  Save on hotel bills and home cooked meals
to boot! ( I did pass this by the "boss" and she says fine).
I think it's going to be tough making up a copper tubing coil around a 10 kV
energized quartz tube though. Hmm...Maybe some of that 1/8th o.d. tubing I
have laying around..?  I  have a large supply in house of the 1/4 inch stuff
also.

Anyway, today I made up a calibration tube unit using .040 ss wire (couldn't
find nichrome locally but I believe it will do fine).
The heater coil is ~ 1.25 inches long as that's about the length the quartz
heats red hot during the previous runs with a 1/2 inch electrode gap.
 The calibration tube will be mounted vertically in the exact enclosure as the
experiment arc (glow?) tube.
 Beat me up, as last years calibration tube was in the open air, and that bit
of extremely BAD science still bothers me.

I used two short (2 inch) lengths of 1/8 o.d. copper pipe as current
connections, the .040 ss wire I crimped into the tubing.  One piece of tubing
is soldered shut, the other piece has a small hole drilled in it above the
crimp for gas/vacuum connection to the tube interior.  The quartz tube is
about 10 inches long and the pieces of copper tubing with the ss wire heater
are inserted into the tube as a unit.
 For vacuum sealing, I just applied high temperature silicone sealant into the
quartz tube where the copper tubing protrudes.  This stuff provides a good
seal from my experience if it allowed to set up for at least 40 hours. I
usually apply a last thin coat of the glop and let that set an additional 24
hours.

The calibration runs will probably start on Wednesday of this week.  
I will post all data here.

Regards
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada  
sent at 20:26 PST

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 21 21:05:49 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Stripping experiment/ EarthTech
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 06:02:14 GMT
Organization: Improving
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On Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:07:04 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote:
[snip]
>I would attempt a literature search on Stellerators, etc, but am not headed
>to Anchorage for a while.  Will be busy with family things for some time.
[snip]
A web search yielded a.o. 

http://www.dasa.com/fusionstar/

http://www.ornl.gov/fed/stelnews/stelnews.html (Stellarator home page,
with links to various other sites).


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 06:27:56 GMT
Organization: Improving
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On Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:57:20 -0700, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>>Exactly how do you come by the notion that neutrinos have an
>>affinity for positive charges (as opposed to negative)?
>
>I Think that the 4 protons---> He4 + e+ + 2 Positron Neutrinos or Proton +
>Proton ---> Deuterium + e+ plus a Neutrino strongly suggests that the
>Positron Neutrino has an affinity for a positive charge the same as the
>Antineutrino seems to have an affinity for the negative electron (e-).

This does provide food for thought.

>
>Besides, I think if you look for them when Positron-Electron pairs are made
>you might find a Neutrino-Antineutrino Pair with the same charge as the
>electron or positron but phase shifted 90 degrees from them. Same goes for
>the high energy Muon and Tau Neutrinos-Antineutrinos.

In this case, would you expect the neutrino-antneutrino pair to leave
with virtually all of the excess energy (from the gamma), most of the
time? I.e. wouldn't this have been obvious from bubble chamber shots of
known decays (or has it indeed been observed?)?

>
>Lay out a y = sin x and y = cos x set of curves and see what happens when
>you overlay them.  :-)

The problem I have with this is that the overlap is so large. That
doesn't seem to correlate with the observed cross sections for neutrino
absorption. Or have I missed the point completely?
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 22 02:27:13 1999
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Subject: Re:  Opinion on Mills' work
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Tom Stolper wrote

>Jean, are you a physicist?  (I'm not, just a layman who did the B.A. in math
>and took some courses in physics and chemistry, too, but so long ago that I've
>forgotten almost everything.)
>
>Tom Stolper

I'm not a physicist but a 77 years old engineer retired from aircraft
industry who took part in Concord and Airbus sagas. But I always kept
interested in physics, particularly in relativity and quantum mechanics and
I know several physicists. None of them could accept Mills' calculations
which appear to them as an ad hoc explanation to justify his experimental
results.

As I already mentioned, Dufour's hydrex (as well as the previous one by
Vigier having the same name but quite different) are fully compatible with
Quantum Mechanics and, as such, far more credible for me. I am reluctant to
the idea of rewriting entirely a capital and well verified chapter of
physics to explain an experiment.

By the way, Tom, you mention that the january edition of Mills' book has
more than 1000 pages. This represents nearly twice the length of the
previous one wich I have and which is only 550 pages long. I supposed that
this new part is mainly chemical as are the new pages of BLP site which I
cannot read, being ignorant in chemistry. But at the first glance this is
not a rewritten chapter but a completely new one, unkwown from everybody
else.

For me a single replication of Mills' work by an independant party like
Earthtech would have more value than one hundred reports of blind labs.
That is the reason why I am so keen at seeing Scott get in touch as quickly
as possible with Randell Mills.

Needless to say that I woud be to happy to be proven wrong

                                        Jean DeLagarde




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From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Miley on stripping
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I wrote George Miley about the possibility of stripping in my fusor:

>>Hi George,
>>
>>I got my fusor going....and it makes neutrons!  I've put a little
>>description including a picture at:
>>
>>http://www.eden.com/~little/fusor/bigsys3.html
>>
>>Some folks have questioned whether or not the neutrons I'm seeing are due
>>to D+D fusion or just "stripping".  I don't understand this stripping
>>hypothesis at all.
>>
>>1.  The neutron binding energy in the deuteron appears to be 2.2 MeV.  How
>>can collisions at ~40 keV knock neutrons out of deuterons in such a way
>>that the neutron goes free?  I've read about deuteron collisions with other
>>nuclei where the neutron enters the target nucleus and the deuteron's
>>proton scatters off at an angle, but that's quite different energetically
>>from just pulling the neutron and proton apart in free space.
>>
>>2.  If it is possible to strip neutrons from deuterons in D-D collisions,
>>what is the probably energy of the neutrons?  Will they be anywhere near as
>>fast as the 2.5 MeV ones we should be getting from D+D fusion?
>>
>>Thanks a lot for your help, George.  It's nice to have access to the
>>experts on such questions.

He replied:

>Scott - congratulations on the neutrons! I am at the APS meeting in Atlanta,
>so can't take long on your questions until I return. however, I completely
>agree with you. Stripping has a low cross section (ie reaction probably)
>compared to D-D at these energiesw, and it would also give an entirely
>different neutron energy spectrum. In our case we ck'd neutron energies and
>scaling with voltage - both of which agree with D-D fusion. I am confident
>your fusor works the same way. If you want to discuss this further when I
>return Friday, let me know.
>Regards,
>George

He then forwarded my message to Jon Nadler who replied:

>Hi, Scott, I'm Jon Nadler, a former student of George's and now a
>collaborator.  I know of the ciriticism re neutron stipping, for I was
>given it when we first started getting neutrons.  Let me echo George's
>comments below, and add, if you're in a position to do so, to check out my
>Ph.D. thesis at the U of Illinois' library.  I addressed those issues in
>there.  To wit: our greatest evidence was the presence of protons with
>EXACTLY the predicted energy spectrum from D-D fusion. So, I don't think
>the neutrons you're getting are from stripping.
>
>Drop a line if you've any more questions; plus, we're always interested in
>your results, too.



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 22 07:47:34 1999
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Subject: Ten Years That Shook Physics
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 99 10:41:25 -0000
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Editorial in Infinite Energy Magazine 
Issue #24, March/April 1999 -- Tenth Anniversary of Cold Fusion
(128 pages, including Special Report: MIT and Cold Fusion)

Copyright Cold Fusion Technology, Inc.

Reprinting and electronic re-distribtuion of this Editorial is encouraged
provided attribution is to Infinite Energy Magazine and Cold Fusion Technology, Inc.
www.infinite-energy.com

TEN YEARS THAT SHOOK PHYSICS
by Eugene F. Mallove, Sc.D. -- Editor-in-Chief

When I read George Gamow¹s book, Thirty Years that Shook Physics: The Story of Quantum Theory (Doubleday & Company, 1966), it  was impossible to imagine that in less than twenty-five years another revolution would shake physics in ways every bit as dramat

ic as what happened from 1900 to 1930.

For the past decade,  the Cold Fusion and Low Energy Nuclear Reactions revolution has been underway, whether or not the mainstream physics/chemistry establishment and the general science media wish to acknowledge it. This month we celebrate what has indee

d been ³Ten Years That Shook Physics.² The barrier that separated conventionally understood chemistry and nuclear physics has come crashing down like the infamous Berlin Wall. The barrier does not exist‹at least not within  special microphysical domains o

f palladium, nickel, and other metals in contact with hydrogen. Exotic new physics is at work,  the ³End of Science² again disproved.

The Revolution does not even have a name on which all the revolutionaries can agree! ³Cold Fusion² is likely to stick, if for no other reason than that is where it all began. The terms LENR (Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions) and CANR (Chemically-Assisted Nucl

ear Reactions) have been tried. This displeases Dr. Randell Mills of BlackLight Power Corporation, who has a radically different theoretical approach and an apparently robust commercial activity. See Mike Carrell¹s assessment of the new Mills scientific i

nitiative: ³hydrino hydride compounds,² page 36 - 39.  To be neutral on this issue, we¹ll float a trial balloon. How about ³Nu-chemistry?²  It¹s certainly ³new² (nu) and it certainly has nuclear (nuc) aspects‹as even Dr. Mills agrees.

The Nu-chemistry Revolution began inauspiciously on March 23, 1989 at the University of Utah. Electrochemists Drs. Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons had worked for five years and spent some $100,000 of their own funds before they announced their finding

s. We are very privileged to have in this issue an essay by Dr. Fleischmann, which reveals some of the scientific thinking that led to the discovery (pp.25-28). Circumstances forced disclosure at a press conference some eighteen months before the scientis

ts had wanted to publish. 

Fleischmann and Pons claimed in 1989 that in a heavy water electrochemical cell near room temperature they had produced excess energy orders of magnitude beyond explanation by chemistry, and that they had detected neutrons and tritium as well. These were 

all signatures of nuclear reactions. 

Unfortunately, they did not emphasize the difficulty of producing the effects. At the time, because their hands were tied by lawyers focused on patent issues and conflicts with nearby BYU, they were not even able to provide  at their news conference a pre

print of their forthcoming Journal of Electroanalytical Chemistry paper. It was published April 10, 1989 but was circulating via fax almost immediately.  A great fuss has been made about this. In retrospect the delay seems short. Tokamak results have ofte

n been announced on the 7:00 o¹clock news months before papers are made available. Their neutron measurements were flawed, as they later admitted. This was a failing, yet others would later confirm  in cold fusion experiments both low-level neutron radiat

ion as well as tritium evolution.

Most important to an understanding of the  heated debate of the past decade: The Fleischmann-Pons announcement threatened an entrenched Federal research program. Billions of dollars had been  invested by the U.S. government in its decades- long ³hot² fusi

on program, which sought to emulate the thermonuclear conditions in the cores of stars. Hot fusion had promised a distant era of safe, clean, infinite energy from the hydrogen isotope deuterium, which is abundant in water. These programs have resulted in 

useful plasma physics research, but no net energy release‹ever. Thermonuclear bombs were far above ³breakeven,² but controlled thermonuclear fusion reactors at Princeton and at MIT were not.

Fleischmann and Pons were saying that they had achieved breakeven already, and, unlike hot fusion, there were no deadly emissions. The claim of a chemically-assisted nuclear fusion reaction with net energy release threatened to divert Congressional fundin

g from the hot fusion program. With private zeal, and later public scorn, scientists supported by the hot fusion program‹particularly at MIT‹sought errors in the Fleischmann-Pons work.  

When the exact radiation signatures and end-products of hot fusion reactions in a vacuum were not found in the Fleischmann-Pons results or in quickly-done tests at other laboratories, scientists at the MIT Plasma Fusion Center (PFC) yelled ³possible fraud

,² ³scam,² and ³scientific schlock.² On May 1, 1989, the MIT PFC planted story in the press unleashed a torrent of anti-scientific bigotry. It did not occur to most scientists that a new class of nuclear reactions might have been discovered. As Nobel Laur

eate Julian Schwinger would say in a lecture at MIT in November 1991, ³The circumstances of cold fusion are not those of hot fusion² (see pg. 81). He was ignored.

The furor over cold fusion in the spring of 1989 prompted President George Bush through Energy Secretary Admiral James Watkins to convene a ³Cold Fusion Panel² of the U.S. Department of Energy¹s Energy Research Advisory Board (ERAB). Nobel Laureate Glenn 

Seaborg had told President Bush in the Oval Office on April 14, 1989 that the Utah discovery was ³not fusion,² thus poisoning the well and precluding an honest investigation.  One of the twenty-three ERAB panelists had thought at the time: ³Just by lookin

g at Fleischmann and Pons on television you could tell they were incompetent boobs.² (Prof. William Happer of Princeton, quoted by G. Taubes in Bad Science.) So much for the theory of the ³unbiased² ERAB panel, which included Professor Mark Wrighton from 

MIT and the much less involved and (in 1999) apparently ³neutral² Prof. Mildred Dresselhaus of MIT.

This panel, convened by the Department of Energy, was assigned to assess reports from various laboratories and to make recommendations to the U.S. government. Three major laboratories submitted negative reports. These were MIT, Caltech, and Harwell (Engla

nd). The ERAB report was negative, and quickly so. A preliminary negative conclusion came in July 1989 and the final report November 1, 1989, with the following consequences:  1) No special funding by the U.S. government for further research; 2) Flat deni

al by the U.S. Patent Office of any application mentioning cold fusion; 3) Suppression of research on the phenomenon in government laboratories; 4) Citation of cold fusion as ³pathological science² or ³fraud² in numerous books and articles critical of col

d fusion in general, and of Fleischmann and Pons in particular.

The 1989 reports of MIT, Caltech, and Harwell have each been analyzed by other scientists and these analyses have been published (see references, page 34). Each of the widely cited 1989 ³null² experiments has been found to be deeply flawed in experimental

 protocols, data evaluation, and presentation. Each, in fact, contained some evidence of excess heat as claimed by Fleischmann and Pons. There is evidence that the MIT data was deliberately altered to erase an indication of excess heat. The altered data w

as published officially by MIT, and it was included in reports to a government agency under the official seal of MIT. The experiment was paid for out of federal government funds. This report had a dramatic impact on the perception of many scientists and j

ournalists.
It is ironic that each of these negative results were themselves the product of the kind of low quality work of which Fleischmann and Pons were accused. The difference was that the reports said what the hot fusion community wanted to hear.  This was the l

egacy of the 1989 ERAB  report, but that legacy must now be reversed‹and it will be, however long that takes. 

Almost two years after they were concocted, Prof. Ronald R. Parker of MIT¹s Plasma Fusion Laboratory publicly stated that the MIT PFC cold fusion calorimetry data were ³worthless² (June 7, 1991). In the same period (August 30, 1991) after I had challenged

 this data, Parker stated that ³MIT scientists stand by their conclusions.² Which is it? 
The full story is given in detail in a ³MIT and Cold Fusion: A Special Report² in this issue.  I was there and I saw what went on‹behavior far beneath what one would have expected from MIT. In 1991 I resigned my job in protest, and later founded this maga

zine. My 1991 book, Fire from Ice: Searching for the Truth Behind the Cold Fusion Furor (John Wiley & Sons) did not tell all that could have been told then. It took years to put it in proper perspective. Now the story has much more significance because Fl

eischmann and Pons have been vindicated‹if not by the media and by the establishment, certainly by mountains of high quality published results.

We shall see what the MIT authorities  of 1999 will do about the misrepresentations some of its staff made in 1989 and in the years thereafter. MIT continues to receive large Federal funding for its tokamak hot fusion project. In fact, as our Special Repo

rt reveals, MIT President Charles M. Vest is on a Federal panel that continues to recommend funding for tokamak fusion. The president of an institution as influential as MIT should weigh issues of intellectual integrity and conflict of interest very caref

ully.  But past experience with Charles Vest and cold fusion, documented here, does not inspire confidence.
The literature on the Fleischmann and Pons effect is now voluminous‹as most readers of Infinite Energy or Fusion Technology  (an American Nuclear Society publication) know very well. It strongly suggests that what Fleischmann and Pons discovered was but t

he tip of an iceberg of a  much more widespread phenomenon‹²Nu-chemistry,² if you wish. Selected papers are cited in this issue as a starting point for those who need to study some of the best hard evidence. These are not fantasies. This is solid work, th

e kind of pioneering, exhaustive experimentation that could have been done at places such as MIT, Caltech, and Harwell, but wasn¹t. 

The production of excess heat in the range of hundreds of megajoules per mole of metal has been confirmed, as well as the production of helium, tritium, and other elements. Power densities of kilowatts per cubic centimeter of electrode have been achieved 

by some researchers. The field of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions has been established, if not yet widely recognized. Low energy neutron or weak gamma radiation are seen in some experiments, but most produce excess heat with no radiation or radioactive bypro

ducts. Rapid remediation of radioactive materials has been demonstrated. What a fantastic opportunity for universities such as MIT to become involved!

The replication and commercial application of the Fleischmann and Pons effect has been inhibited by a lack of understanding of the exact nature of the reactions, which are not those known to plasma physicists.  There is a severe and widespread materials a

nd theory problem related to cathode materials that produce the effect. Criteria are available to test cathode materials for potential activity, but knowledge of how to produce such material at will is not available.

Sad to say, solving the materials problem may be beyond the financial resources of the scattered researchers who have worked to validate the Fleischmann and Pons effect. Unfortunately, the negative reports by key hot fusion laboratories to ERAB prevented 

diversion of government funding from the failed hot fusion program to the more promising field of cold fusion.  The patent-crushing ERAB report also became a severe deterrent to private investment in the new energy field. 

Ending where this began, we return to George Gamow¹s musings of 1966, when I was a sophomore at MIT in aero/astro engineering. Gamow thought that the next major physics revolution would be in understanding the very existence of elementary particles. He wr

ote, ³There is hardly any doubt that when such a breakthrough is achieved, it will involve concepts that will be as different from those of today as today¹s concepts are different from those of classical physics.² He was both wrong and right. He could not

 have suspected that the next physics revolution would begin not with high energy particle physics but with fundamental electrochemistry‹and that it would end with the birth of modern alchemy. The revolution will be the end of the world that we have known

, this time for the better.

www.infinite-energy.com

Infinite Energy Magazine
Cold Fusion Technology, Inc.
P.O. Box 2816
Concord, NH 03302-2816

Ph:  603-228-4516
Fax: 603-224-5975

 staff infinite-energy.com


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 22 08:38:00 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Miley on stripping
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At 8:29 AM 3/22/99, Scott Little wrote:
>I wrote George Miley about the possibility of stripping in my fusor:
[snip]
>   Stripping has a low cross section (ie reaction probably)
>>compared to D-D at these energiesw, and it would also give an entirely
>>different neutron energy spectrum. In our case we ck'd neutron energies and
>>scaling with voltage - both of which agree with D-D fusion.
[snip]

So - there you are!  If you measure measure lots of low energy neutrons you
have something unexpected.  Such a measurement is thus now more interesting
than ever.  However, the issue has not been whether you are getting fusion
neutrons, for you know that is all your counter can count.  The issue is
the relative cross section, how many additional unmeasured neutrons you are
getting.

That is also an nifty way to get a spectum - vary the fusor voltage, take a
count over the range.

If you get positive results for stripped neutrons or want to look at the
impact of other things, like placing target material on your alarmingly
glowing insulator column, it could be automated.  A spectrometer!  Stripped
neutrons counts should be a comparatively flat component.  I don't know
what your power supply is, but if you can change voltage with your neat
computer controlled variac and get count data back to the computer, you
could automate the process.  A harmless test lead into your counter
circuitry, a simple pulse voltage scaling and feeding into a capacitor time
averager and then to your a/d would work easily.  Could scale voltage and
into A/D similarly.  You would have to modify your software to do an x-y
plot instead of time-y, or just vary voltage linearly with time.  You know
all this beter than I.  This thought is just fascinating.

Also, is there any possibility protons are already being or could be
counted (separately)?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 22 09:04:53 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: EarthTech fusor/ stripping
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An experiment of possible interest for your fusor is to measure neutron
counts as a function of angle theata off a strong imposed magnetic field.
Pure fusion reactions should not be sensitive to the angle, true?
Possibly a mix of fusion and stripping reactions would be?

Again, I don't know what effect a strong imposed magnetic field would have
on your fusor.  That alone would be interesting?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 22 09:41:50 1999
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From: Tstolper aol.com
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Scott,

Re your offer to fly to Las Vegas and do calorimetry if Vince gets a really
large temperature difference:  would you be able to do the calorimetry with
your portable water-flow calorimeter without cooling the wall of Vince's high-
temperature cell?

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 22 09:45:41 1999
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Vince,

Would you consider changing the title of the thread in which you post your
updates to something even simpler and shorter, say "H w K glow discharge,"
which would be shorthand for "Hydrogen with Potassium glow discharge"?

It seems to me that referring to H2, the two-atom hydrogen molecule, might
raise potential confusions.

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 22 09:49:57 1999
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In his message Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:02:49 -0500, Mike Carrell wrote that
he saw Mills as being "on a tightrope over a chasm."

Mike, why such a dramatic image of peril?

Tom Stolper

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Scott Little wrote:

> George Miley ...about the possibility of stripping in my fusor... Stripping
> has a low cross section (ie reaction probably) compared to D-D at these
> energies, and it would also give an entirely different neutron energy
> spectrum. In our case we ck'd neutron energies and scaling with voltage - both
> of which agree with D-D fusion. I am confident your fusor works the same way.
> If you want to discuss this further when I return Friday, let me know.
> Regards, George

Well, there you have it from the acknowledged expert . However, isn't it a
little curious that he doesn't account for the 3H and 3He (or has he?) which
would accumulate and eventualy take over the process because of reaction cross
section. He should be seeing more and more 14-18 MeV neutrons as time goes (hard
to miss these) - but since his design apparently is now in production? they must
have incorporated some way to scavenge the cell - unless of couse they want
those pesky little devils.

> He then forwarded my message to Jon Nadler who replied:  To wit: our greatest
> evidence was the presence of protons with EXACTLY the predicted energy
> spectrum from D-D fusion.

How is testing the proton energy spectrum? Seems like there are far easier and
more definitve ways to eliminate the possibility of stripping. I would like to
pose a few of these questions to Jon Nadler. Do you have his email address?

Thanks in advance, and please accept my apologies if my stripping observations
have delayed your progress.

Regards,
Jones Beene



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References: <v01530503b31a00d27b6e [12.21.208.149]>
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Scott Little wrote:

> I definitely agree that it's worth checking out.  BTW, I used to be
> Radiation Safety Officer at ASOMA Instruments so I have at least some ideaof
> what I'm up against here.

Then you probably know Ludlum Instruments out in West Texas. But I think their
BF3 counter is a little overkill for your purposes.

Regards,
Jones

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 22 12:12:47 1999
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From: VCockeram aol.com
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In a message dated 03/22/1999 09:42:38 Pacific Standard Time, Tstolper aol.com
writes:
> Would you consider changing the title of the thread in which you post your
>  updates to something even simpler and shorter, say "H w K glow discharge,"
>  which would be shorthand for "Hydrogen with Potassium glow discharge"?
>  It seems to me that referring to H2, the two-atom hydrogen molecule, might
>  raise potential confusions.
>  Tom Stolper

No, as changing the H2 to H in the subject line _assumes I do have_  H atoms
in the tube when running. I know yes there must be some but I couldn't prove
it!  I'd much rather stick to what I do know whats in there, H2, K, W, Cu
(from the electrode support). There is also the stainless steel supports and a
ferrule made of brass. These last are in a low (<100 C) temperature region of
the tube.

Tom, I have some image files of the experimental setup in operation and will
upload them to you if you want. They are JPG type files and run about 25 kb in
size.  let me know if you (or anyone else) wants a couple. These pictures are
from last Octobers run with the 5kV DC power supply I built.

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada
702-254-2122

Retired and loving it! 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 22 12:14:09 1999
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Gentlemen,
    Please redirect all subsequent offerings to me at my new email =
address: ghathaway ieee.org  effective immediately. Please disregard my =
old address  hathc inforamp.net .
    I appreciate your continuing efforts in promoting a more sane human =
future.


                            Sincerely,


                            George D. Hathaway


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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Gentlemen,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Please redirect =
all=20
subsequent offerings to me at my new email address: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:ghathaway ieee.org">ghathaway@ieee.org</A>&nbsp; =
effective=20
immediately. Please disregard my old address&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:hathc inforamp.net">hathc@inforamp.net</A> .</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I appreciate your =
continuing=20
efforts in promoting a more sane human future.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
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Sincerely,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
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p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
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George D. Hathaway</FONT></DIV>
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 22 12:28:11 1999
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Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:26:48 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: H2 w/K glow discharge
In-Reply-To: <9c3a9523.36f67fe8 aol.com>
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At 12:37 3/22/99 EST, you wrote:
>Scott,
>
>Re your offer to fly to Las Vegas and do calorimetry if Vince gets a really
>large temperature difference:  would you be able to do the calorimetry with
>your portable water-flow calorimeter without cooling the wall of Vince's
high-
>temperature cell?

Sure!  All we have to do is insulate the cell from the heat exchanger.  It
increases the time constant but that's the price of success.  Probably the
easiest way to do Vince's cell is just to arrange an air space (say 2")
between the outer walls of his cell and the inner walls of the heat
exchanger.  Of course, I have to ensure that the heat exchanger completely
encloses the cell (except for small holes for wires, etc.), but that's not
too hard to do.

I used this approach in my BLP work and in my Case work.  In both cases,
the cell needed to be quite hot (~200C) w.r.t. the calorimeter water (~30C).

Somebody once erroneously claimed that water-flow calorimeters necessarily
"clamp" the experiment at the water temperature.



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 22 14:29:03 1999
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From: "R. Wormus" <rwormus lock-load.com>
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Subject: Papers of Interest to Vorts?
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The following papers by: Dr. Alex Kaivarainen

Petrozavodsk State University,  
Department of Applied Mathematics and Cybernetics 
Lenin st. 33, 185640, Petrozavodsk, Russia 
E- mail:  <h2o karelia.ru>   or  <alexk@kftt.karelia.ru>
Leading Scientist, Ph.D., D. Sc. (Physics & Biophysics); 
Adjunct Professor of University of Miami, Chem. Dept. (USA)

 are available in PDF at:  http://kftt.karelia.ru:8101/~alexk/new_articles/index.html

There is an error in the link for paper 1.3 It should read ..............meso&macro.pdf

Series of papers, based on new  
Hierarchic Theory of Condensed Matter
1.1 
NEW HIERARCHIC THEORY OF MATTER GENERAL FOR LIQUIDS AND SOLIDS: dynamics, thermodynamics and mesoscopic structure of water and ice
1.2 
HIERARCHIC THEORY OF CONDENSED MATTER AND IT'S INTERACTION WITH LIGHT: New Theories of Light Refraction, Brillouin Scattering and Mossbauer effect
1.3 
HIERARCHIC THEORY OF CONDENSED MATTER: 
Interrelation between mesoscopic and macroscopic properties
1.4 
HIERARCHIC THEORY OF COMPLEX SYSTEMS
1.5 
HIERARCHIC THEORY OF CONDENSED MATTER:  
Role of Water in Biosystems
1.6 
MESOSCOPIC MODELS OF TURBULENCE, SUPERFLUIDITY AND SUPERCONDUCTIVITY
1.7 
HIERARCHIC THEORY OF CONDENSED MATTER: Long relaxation, macroscopic oscillation and the effects of  magnetic field
1.8 
HIERARCHIC CONCEPT OF MATTER AND FIELD: Hypothesis of "Biological" and "Informational" Fields

.
Series of articles, based on new  
Dynamic Model of Wave-Particle Duality
2.1 
DYNAMIC MODEL OF WAVE-PARTICLE DUALITY:  Introduction, General Notions and Role of Vacuum Excitations
2.2 
DYNAMIC MODEL OF WAVE-PARTICLE DUALITY: Hidden Parameters, Eigen moments, Weak and Strong Interaction
2.3 
DYNAMIC MODEL OF WAVE-PARTICLE DUALITY: Electromagnetism, Gravitation and Golden Mean Roots
2.4 
UNCONVENTIONAL CONSEQUENCES OF DYNAMIC MODEL OF WAVE-PARTICLE DUALITY

 




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 22 15:35:08 1999
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Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:32:28 -0600
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From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: recoil proton tracks
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Gnorts,

Today I set up a diffusion-type cloud chamber beside our fusor and
photographed a number of tracks that pretty-much fit the appearance
expected for recoil protrons from collisions with the fast neutrons from
the fusor.

A brief description of this work with photos of the tracks can be found at:

http://www.eden.com/~little/fusor/cloud.html

Thanks for all the good discussion on this experiment.  Horace, I'm
thinking about all your suggestions.



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 22 19:41:05 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: recoil proton tracks
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At 5:32 PM 3/22/99, Scott Little wrote:
>Gnorts,
>
>Today I set up a diffusion-type cloud chamber beside our fusor and
>photographed a number of tracks that pretty-much fit the appearance
>expected for recoil protrons from collisions with the fast neutrons from
>the fusor.
>
>A brief description of this work with photos of the tracks can be found at:
>
>http://www.eden.com/~little/fusor/cloud.html

Cool photos.

>
>Thanks for all the good discussion on this experiment.  Horace, I'm
>thinking about all your suggestions.

Great.  If one in a hundred helps anybody it makes me happy.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 22 22:24:38 1999
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From: "Frederick J Sparber" <fjsparb sprintmail.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Electron Affinity, Atmospheric Electricty, Neutrinos, and Charge Clusters?
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 23:20:49 -0700
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To: Vortex

Seems that H, D, K, O, H2O, and O2 and about everything except N2 and the
Noble Gases have Energy Releasing Affinity for Electrons according to the
data on Electron Affinity given in the CRC "Bible".  :-)

Now, if Neutrinos have some Negative Charge Properties, what happens with
them in the Atmosphere/Hydrosphere?

Suffer, Robin & Horace.   Ions, Tigers and Bears! I knew those fractional ev
"Light Leptons" were around somewhere. :-)

Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 22 23:15:10 1999
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:04:06 -0700
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Convenient site for quick info.

http://www.snap.com/



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[InternetShortcut]
URL=http://www.snap.com/
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 22 23:50:10 1999
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Message-ID: <01BE74BE.E0FABE90 iras-1-82.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: off-topic: EM radiation through soil?
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 23:51:11 -0800
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This is off-topic but related: Does anyone know where I might find 
information about propagation of EM waves through soil? I'm looking for the 
best frequencies for penetrating 1-10 feet of soil, with reasonable 
directionality or ability to resolve point of origin and depth of the 
signal source.

This is for a non-energy related application, but I know that some of you 
on this list have this type of knowledge (or know where to get it). More 
details and discussion off-list if anyone's interested.

BTW, it's interesting to see the discussion on Vortex-C about "Torsion 
field generation by EM rotation", almost exactly 2 years after my initial 
query to the group about how to make a rapidly-rotating magnetic field 
(3/17/97). Is intuition a manifestation of Tortion fields? ;-)

Thanks,

Dan Quickert


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Subject: Re: off-topic: EM radiation through soil?
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Dan Quickert said:


>This is off-topic but related: Does anyone know where I might find
>information about propagation of EM waves through soil? I'm looking for the
>best frequencies for penetrating 1-10 feet of soil, with reasonable
>directionality or ability to resolve point of origin and depth of the
>signal source.


Signals in the high audio range -- 15-20 KHz -- will propagate through the
earth. For years, the US Navy has used this band to communicate with
submerged nuclear submarines. I believe there is one transmitter
installation in northern Michigan, with an antenna consisting of miles of
buried cable, and another in California, with an antenna as a cable strung
across a valley.

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 23 06:40:07 1999
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On March 21, Bob Briggs posted a number of comments and questions.

Bob wrote:  "I believe that Mills has a pretty good track record as a
technical business
man.  He has started and run several successful companies based on his own
medical technology so one must assume some business sense.  Until otherwise
demonstrated, I will withhold conclusions on either his technical or business
competence."

Mills has had some highly original ideas in medical technology, but I don't
think he's had the time to commercialize them.

Mills founded BLP in 1991.  At the time, it was called HydroCatalysis Power
and had just one employee, himself.  Over the years, he managed to raise
enough money to move to better quarters, hire some other people, and continue
to develop his ideas in physics and chemistry.  In 1997, he raised $10 million
and must have hired still more people, because the company now claims 23 full-
time employees.  At the beginning of 1999, according to the BLP website,
Mills' company moved into much larger quarters and planned to hire still more
people.  I'd say that demonstrates a lot of business and technical competence.
I wish I had a tenth as much.

Bob also wrote that he had an experience similar to Scott Little's "in
attempting
to clarify a point of confusion on something Mills wrote. His response: "Too
busy now.  Get back to you later."  Then nothing more.  I don't necessarily
think he is dissembeling or hiding.  Just not very sociable."

Bob, congratulations on getting any response at all.  Work and family don't
leave a lot of time for email from people outside one's immediate circle,
especially when the work is as demanding as Mills' efforts must be.  I don't
think he's unsociable at all, just snowed under with emails.

Bob asked:

"Now I'm curious.  What were Scott's serious mistakes in trying to replicate
Mill's reactor?  I recall that Scott tried some deviations from Mills'
configuration in an attempt to get results, but Scott was obviously a         
responsible investigator, not a frivolous amateur.

Has anyone replicated Mills' results from scratch?"

The answer to the second question is yes.  Reiko Notoya, Robert Bush, and
Mitchell Swartz have all gotten excess heat from Mills-type cells (although
none replicated his cells exactly), apparently working without any assistance
from Mills or his colleagues.  Vince Cockeram replicated some of Mills' gas-
phase results, also apparently working without any assistance from Mills or
his colleagues.  

Mills-type experiments aren't as demanding as Fleischmann-Pons experiments.
Mills-type experiments can be done by an advanced amateur like Vince Cockeram.

So why hasn't a pro like Scott Little replicated any of Mills' experiments?
Scott has the skills and resources necessary to do the job.  I think that the
answer is that Scott is of two minds.  Half of him really wants to find excess
heat, and the other half doesn't.  

The half that didn't was in control when Scott made his first attempts at
replicating Mills.  In the EarthTech electrolytic tries, one could spot the
following mistakes:  closed cell rather than open cell, too dilute an
electrolyte, using distilled water from the grocery store, too high a current
density, and using uncleaned nickel fibrex as the cathode (Mills & Good 1995
used thoroughly cleaned nickel fibrex as the anode and thorougly cleaned
nickel wire cloth as the cathode).  See my post to Vortex-L on Feb. 15, 1999.

In his post Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:58:03 -0600, Scott Little wrote,
"Agreed.  I don't claim anything for my electrolytic Mills cell."

As for the attempt to replicate the gas-phase cell, Scott put his potassium
catalyst in a stainless-steel cylinder with a small opening set off to one
side of the filament.  I wonder if any K+ ions at all were produced from that
setup.  If they were, they wouldn't have stayed ions long enough to get to the
dissociated neutral H atoms near the filament, as I think Fred Sparber may
have mentioned.  Mills used a ceramic boat directly under the hot filament.

But maybe I've been too hard on Scott lately.  He did post his results on the
Web, and that's a gutsy thing to do, because it opens one up to potshots from
the whole world.

Bob, what's your professional background and interest in Mills' work?

Tom Stolper

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To Scott, Horace and other "fusor" enthusiasts:

I have been in touch with Jon Nadler, George Miley's grad. assistant in his
Fusor experiment. As it happens, their experiment did not measure for thermal
neutrons either. Here is the relevant quote:


> But to answer your question, our neutron counters are usually placed inside a
> good chunk of poly to thermalize the 2.5 MeV neutrons coming out of the
> reactor.  No thermal neutrons are going to get through that much poly.  So, all
> the neutrons we count are fast neutrons.
>

Here is my reply to Jon. I think it was a little hasty as I missed adding some
relevant info, but perhaps it will stimlate some thought.


> Jon:  Thanks for quick reply and let me add more of a "prequel," as apparently
> this particular reaction, which I am calling "stripping"  is not all that well
> understood, even at the highest levels :-)
>
> for instance, you said,
>
> > I would think, that if you were to strip a neutron off of a larger nuclei,that
> > the resultant neutron energy would be above thermal.  The amount of
> > kinetic energy required to do this is not small, especially for Fe, which
> > is what most of their "target" would be.
>
> George Miley also mentioned in his post to Scott Little "the 'high' cross section
> for stripping." Perhaps the "stripping" name, when applied to DD, is a little
> misleading to any physicist  accustomed (at least in the published literature) to
> the high energy stripping of neutrons from heavy metals. But, what I am
> specifically refering to here is the reaction that produces anomolous thermal
> neutrons at low energies from either KeV plasma - or often even from solid state
> electrochemical reactions. This is not textbook stuff. The classical stripping
> reaction:   D+ -(D+,D+)-> p+ + n
> requires less than 20 KeV to pull off.
>
> I am currently compiling a file, going back to the early days of nuclear
> reasearch, of published and unpublished reports of anomolous thermal neutrons -
> and there are many. Most often, these had been assumed to be DD fusion neutrons
> that had been secondarily thermalized. Many times these neutrons are copious.
> I'll send you a copy if and when I find the time to finish the compilation. BTW
> when we are looking at probability "curves," perhaps the following generaliztion
> is helpful: the surprising number of fast neutrons that you are getting from a
> fusor are probalby due to the "tail" of the average plasma energy  distribution
> curve, whereas thermal neutrons would most likely result from unique geometry of
> the Deuteron - and tail of the probability curve of spin alteration in one of the
> bosons (resulting from either electron interaction, photon absorbsion, or
> near-miss couloumb interaction). By that, I mean that in a  spin 1 Deuteron if
> spins of the two loosely bound bosons become unaligned, the total binding energy
> is (slightly) negative.
>
> At any rate, from this perspective you can see why I am intersted in the ratio
> of thermal neutrons to fast neutrons in your fusor device. I sincerely hope that if
> you ever continue this experiment that you will try to get such a ratio. You
> might be in for a big surprise.
>
> Thanks again,
> Jones
>





--------------4C284E15AE5E319108EBC4F1
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
To Scott, Horace and other "fusor" enthusiasts:
<p>I have been in touch with Jon Nadler, George Miley's grad. assistant
in his Fusor experiment. As it happens, their experiment did not measure
for thermal neutrons either. Here is the relevant quote:
<br>&nbsp;
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>But to answer your question, our neutron counters are usually placed inside a&nbsp;
good chunk of poly to thermalize the 2.5 MeV neutrons coming out of the&nbsp;
reactor.&nbsp; No thermal neutrons are going to get through that much poly.&nbsp; So, all&nbsp;
the neutrons we count are fast neutrons.</pre>
</blockquote>

<p><br>Here is my reply to Jon. I think it was a little hasty as I missed
adding some relevant info, but perhaps it will stimlate some thought.
<br>&nbsp;
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>Jon:&nbsp; Thanks for quick reply and let me add more of a "prequel," as apparently
this particular reaction, which I am calling "stripping"&nbsp; is not all that well
understood, even at the highest levels :-)

for instance, you said,

> I would think, that if you were to strip a neutron off of a larger nuclei,that
> the resultant neutron energy would be above thermal.&nbsp; The amount of
> kinetic energy required to do this is not small, especially for Fe, which
> is what most of their "target" would be.

George Miley also mentioned in his post to Scott Little "the 'high' cross section
for stripping." Perhaps the "stripping" name, when applied to DD, is a little
misleading to any physicist&nbsp; accustomed (at least in the published literature) to
the high energy stripping of neutrons from heavy metals. But, what I am
specifically refering to here is the reaction that produces anomolous thermal
neutrons at low energies from either KeV plasma - or often even from solid state
electrochemical reactions. This is not textbook stuff. The classical stripping
reaction:&nbsp;&nbsp; D+ -(D+,D+)-> p+ + n
requires less than 20 KeV to pull off.

I am currently compiling a file, going back to the early days of nuclear
reasearch, of published and unpublished reports of anomolous thermal neutrons -
and there are many. Most often, these had been assumed to be DD fusion neutrons
that had been secondarily thermalized. Many times these neutrons are copious.
I'll send you a copy if and when I find the time to finish the compilation. BTW
when we are looking at probability "curves," perhaps the following generaliztion
is helpful: the surprising number of fast neutrons that you are getting from a
fusor are probalby due to the "tail" of the average plasma energy&nbsp; distribution
curve, whereas thermal neutrons would most likely result from unique geometry of
the Deuteron - and tail of the probability curve of spin alteration in one of the
bosons (resulting from either electron interaction, photon absorbsion, or
near-miss couloumb interaction). By that, I mean that in a&nbsp; spin 1 Deuteron if
spins of the two loosely bound bosons become unaligned, the total binding energy
is (slightly) negative.

At any rate, from this perspective you can see why I am intersted in the ratio&nbsp;
of thermal neutrons to fast neutrons in your fusor device. I sincerely hope that if
you ever continue this experiment that you will try to get such a ratio. You
might be in for a big surprise.

Thanks again,
Jones</pre>
</blockquote>

<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;</html>

--------------4C284E15AE5E319108EBC4F1--

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> Dr. A. G. Finci
>>       Mission Research Corporation (MRC)
>>
>>Title:
>>
>>Electromagnetic Radiography (EMR)™ for the Detection of Low-Level Chemical
>>Contamination and Objects in the Ground:
>>
>>                             Abstract
>>
>>Electromagnetic Radiography (EMR)™ provides direct, high-resolution images
>>of low-level chemical contamination in the ground at concentration levels
>>in the parts-per-billion range (µg/kg).  This new sensor system can
>>distinguish between dense, non-aqueous phase liquids (DNAPLs) and light,
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>>
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>>more, including clay.
>>
>>
>>Dr. Aka G. Finci
>>Mission Research Corporation (MRC)
>>1720 Randolph Road, SE,
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>>
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The Science Times section of the Times has a 10 year anniversary column on
CF by William Broad.  
It seems to me reasonably well balanced.  
On the cover of the section the headline subtitle is unfortunate "A
scientific revolution that failed".  
Note that newspaper heads are usually not written by the author of the
article.
Mark Goldes, Magnetic Power Inc.

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mrb ap.net wrote:
> 
> The Science Times section of the Times has a 10 year anniversary column on
> CF by William Broad.
> It seems to me reasonably well balanced.
> On the cover of the section the headline subtitle is unfortunate "A
> scientific revolution that failed".
> Note that newspaper heads are usually not written by the author of the
> article.
> Mark Goldes, Magnetic Power Inc.

Here's the text:

	<><><><><><><><><><><><><>

A Tempest in a Test Tube, 10 Years Later

 By WILLIAM J. BROAD

Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann are still true believers, as are
other scientists and enthusiasts scattered  around the globe who
still see a glimmer of hope. Even the Federal Government keeps a few
researchers investigating the topic, though inconspicuously. 

Ten years ago, on March 23, 1989, Dr. Pons, then chairman of the
chemistry department at the University of Utah, and Dr. Fleischmann,
a top British chemist at the University of Southampton, set the
world of science on its head by announcing in Salt Lake City that
they had achieved nuclear fusion at room temperature in a jar of
water. 

They claimed, in effect, to have tamed the sun, unleashing its might
on the earth without destructive side effects. 

Hailed in headlines as the greatest discovery since fire, cold
fusion was seen as promising to provide a safe, cheap and virtually
inexhaustible form of power, ending human dependence on oil and
redrawing the geopolitical map to make Salt Lake City the energy
capital of the world. 

Best of all, it was outrageously simple. 

The test apparatus cost a pittance and centered on palladium rods in
a jar of heavy water, in which normal hydrogen is replaced by
deuterium, an isotope of hydrogen that is ubiquitous in sea water. 

The two said that an electric current passing through the test cell
produced excess heat. Somehow, they said, atoms of deuterium were
forced to fuse together, paving the way for a new age. 

But the dream soon faded. Skeptics rushed forward. And after a few
hectic months, cold fusion collapsed as most scientists were unable
to match the startling results. Heavy blows were landed by such
giants as the California Institute of Technology and a 22-member
Federal panel made up mainly of top university scientists, which
said the reported find was too good to be true. In particular, it
found no credible evidence of bursts of neutrons, which the Utah
team had claimed as key proof of nuclear alchemy. 

Frank Close, a physicist with top positions at the Oak Ridge
National Laboratory in Tennessee and the Rutherford Laboratory in
Britain, went further. In "Too Hot to Handle" (Princeton, 1991), he
charged that crucial evidence in the original claim was so skewed as
to be "invented," an allegation the two claimants denied. 

Surprisingly, despite a decade long cold bath of criticism, cold
fusion is still alive today and apparently doing well in the
scientific underground. Researchers around the globe quietly claim
success at getting tantalizing results, if not blistering heats
ready to topple the status quo. This hum of low-level work confounds
skeptics and delights believers. 

"It's as alive as it's always been," Dr. Fleischmann, 72, said in a
telephone interview from his home in Britain. Successful tests, he
added, continue to show that whatever is happening has to be nuclear
in nature. "It can't be chemical," he said. "The energy quantities
are too large, orders of magnitude larger." 

A Fellow of the Royal Society, the top honorary group for British
scientists, Dr. Fleischmann painted a picture of conspiracy in which
cold fusion was killed politically by a cabal of oil- and hot-fusion
interests, among others. Over the decades, scientists have spent
billions of dollars to mimic the sun's hot-fusion reactions on
earth. But that research has remained a scientific curiosity, and
its practitioners were quick to question cold fusion, which in
theory was a potential rival. 

"We've had incredible disinformation," Dr. Fleischmann said in the
interview. He added that he himself was still exploring cold fusion
experimentally, but would not say where or with what success. 

The other half of the pair, Dr. Pons, 56, left the University of
Utah in 1991 and now lives in France. Colleagues say he still backs
the claims but is bitter over their public denunciation. "He doesn't
want to talk to the press," said Jean-Paul Biberian, a physicist at
the University of Grenoble who is in contact with Dr. Pons. 

Dr. Biberian, who said he has studied cold fusion for six years, is
one of perhaps a few hundred scientists around the world who
investigate the phenomenon, publish articles and go to international
meetings. 

John R. Huizenga, co-chairman of the Federal panel that found cold
fusion wanting, said the true believers were chasing a ghost. 

"It's as dead as ever," he said in an interview. "It's quite
unbelievable that the thing has gone on for 10 years. But it's the
same group of people and they don't want to take no for an answer." 

While conceding that some evidence was unquestionably faulty in the
early days, cold fusion advocates insist that the evidence has
improved in quality and quantity over the past decade. 

"The presence of unexplained heat is essentially unquestioned," said
Michael C. H. McKubre, a chemist at SRI International, a private
research group in Menlo Park, Calif., who works in the field.
"There's a source of heat we can't explain with known chemistry." 

Dr. McKubre added that scientists, including himself, had also made
progress in finding hints of nuclear reactions. When deuterium atoms
fuse, they produce not only neutrons but byproducts like tritium and
helium. Both of these, he said, have been identified. 

But some of the results are still frustratingly erratic, he added,
and hard proof will require more research. 

The Naval Research Laboratory in Washington, the Navy's top science
center, last year published a review of cold-fusion research that
concluded that enough mysteries remained to warrant more inquiry. 

"Further experimental investigations of these and related questions
seem desirable, at least for scientific if not practical reasons,"
wrote David J. Nagel, the report's author and head of the
laboratory's division of condensed matter and radiation sciences.
Last week, officials there said the laboratory was currently doing
no such research. 

One of the biggest public advocates of cold fusion is Eugene F.
Mallove, the editor and publisher of Infinite Energy, which is based
in Concord, N.H. The bimonthly magazine ($5.95 in the United States,
more elsewhere) tracks cold-fusion research and usually prints 5,000
copies that are distributed in 37 countries, Dr. Mallove said. 

"It's real," he said of cold fusion. "For many years now, it's been
absolutely clear that there is nuclear-scale energy that's
emerging." 

For $595, plus shipping, the magazine's parent company, Cold Fusion
Technology Inc., sells a "Plasma-Discharge Electrolysis Exploration
System," complete with an X-ray shield in case the emerging energy
is so abundant as to be deadly. 

Dr. Mallove said the field was destined to fly. 

In a few years, he said, commercial developments that are going on
right now will produce "a revolution in energy."

But Dr. Huizenga, the Federal skeptic, said business people sinking
money into the field were going to lose it. 

"Oh well," he rued, "that's the way it goes."  

copyright NY Times, 3/23/99

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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:11:08 +0200
From: hamdi ucar <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
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CC: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>,
        Modanese Giovanni <modanese alpha.science.unitn.it>
Subject: Podklednov/Schuruner effect in the light of the pyramid exp model
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Hi all,

I think I figured an alternate way to model superconductor-weight reduction phenomenon:

Superconductor emit some field (torsion field ?), which alter the gravitational property of sample material.

So the SC does not alter, shield or generate gravity and does not emit force fields to push or pull the sample weights. NASA's sophisticated gravimeters may not measure the effect because the _gravitational field is not altered_ at all. Which is altered, 

is the natural, random dynamic inside the matter which govern its gravitational properties, roughly it's weight. 

I suggest the gravity is in a stochastic nature and caused by the dynamic of the matter, and if one disturb this random dynamic, align, polarize, create anisotropy, destroy the natural distribution pattern of the internal dynamic of the matter, gravitatio

nal property of the matter is affected.

What is the dynamic inside the matter which determine its behaviour to gravitational field? I dont know. I dont know it's scale. Is it in molecular scale? in atomic, subatomic scale? or at planck length? I dont know. But the experiments suggest they are n

ot on very high energies, but accessible at low energies.

Results: 

1) NASA should incorporate direct weight measurement of different sample materials to Podkletnov replicate experiments.

2) As it is likely that the gravitational property of the matter are affected slowly and progressively, prolonged experiment times would be necessary to observe the anomalies.

3) Gravity shielding effect is not required to explain the apparent low gravity zone column. Because the only alternate was the SC is the source of force field radiating on its axis direction. Such force field is not consistent with the observation becaus

e lacking of reaction force on SC setup. 

4) The very hard to explain the uni-directional of the effect, phenomena only observable above the setup and not below it now can be explained in some extend without the shield hypothesis:

   Logically one can expect the SC affect the space symmetrically, and if it is emitting something, it would in both sides. Now if the relax (the restrictions about) the nature of the field radiated from the disk, not need to interfere with the gravity or

 cause gravity, other hypothetic kind of fields are possible and such a fields can interfere with the structure of the matter in a sophisticated way, not in a symmetrical way like gravitational force or field interact with matter.

  a) It is more easier to hypothesis a field emitted from the SC disk asymmetrically in this frame of thought.

  b) Even the SC emits fields symmetrically, both above and below, the field interfere with the matter anisotropically, and this anisotropy can be related to the present gravitational field. In this model, even the SC not need to emit a beam like field cr

eating a column above it, but such a field can ne hypothesized as effective if it is in the same direction of the gravity vector. So it is permitted the matter have anisotropic properties after affected by the field emitted by SC, or the field emitted by 

SC setup could affect sample material in a anisotropic way respect of the present gravitational field.

5) If the SC setup were generating force fields which responsible to push up the sample upward, am energy transfer were needed and it rise serious energy conservation issues, The only way was the setup is supplying the energy needed to rise samples agains

t gravity. This was not readily acceptable because, there was no apparent energy loss from the SC setup which is needed to be transferred to rising material in a undetermined way. Such a transfer if energy is not needed according the suggested model. The 

only energy is required is for affecting the gravitational property of the matter. So this field act as a gate, not entering the energy cycle of the material acting with the gravity. So no strict energy conservation is need in part of this effect. Energy 

balance can be restored indirectly, probably not allowing perpetium mobile schemes.

Regards,
hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 23 10:36:27 1999
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Frederick J Sparber wrote:

> Seems that H, D, K, O, H2O, and O2 and about everything except N2 and the
> Noble Gases have Energy Releasing Affinity for Electrons according to the
> data on Electron Affinity given in the CRC "Bible".  :-) Now, if Neutrinos have some
> Negative Charge Properties, what happens with them in the
> Atmosphere/Hydrosphere?
>

Given the above, could it be possible that N2 might have a slight focusing/
reflecting effect on neutrinos - as in, a partial answer to the "solar neutrino
problem"?

Maybe those big tanker trucks of LN cruising down the freeway are leaving a wake
of neutrinos. Just the place to "convoy" once you get that new "fusor" powered
Mercedes  ;-)

Regards,
Jones



--------------82D8C7EF618D9946B70CD3E6
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Frederick J Sparber wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>Seems that H, D, K, O, H2O, and O2 and about everything except N2 and the
Noble Gases have Energy Releasing Affinity for Electrons according to the
data on Electron Affinity given in the CRC "Bible".&nbsp; :-) Now, if Neutrinos have some&nbsp;
Negative Charge Properties, what happens with them in the&nbsp;
Atmosphere/Hydrosphere?</pre>
</blockquote>

<p><br>Given the above, could it be possible that N2 might have a slight
focusing/ reflecting effect on neutrinos - as in, a partial answer to the
"solar neutrino problem"?
<p>Maybe those big tanker trucks of LN cruising down the freeway are leaving
a wake of neutrinos. Just the place to "convoy" once you get that new "fusor"
powered Mercedes&nbsp; ;-)
<p>Regards,
<br>Jones
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;</html>

--------------82D8C7EF618D9946B70CD3E6--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 23 11:05:56 1999
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:00:22 -0500
From: Soo <Soojay compuserve.com>
Subject: CF article in todays NY Times
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Mark,

<On the cover of the section the headline subtitle is unfortunate "A
scientific revolution that failed".  Note that newspaper heads are usually
not written by the author of the
article.>

That's a very *British* title for such a piece as it can be interpreted in
several ways, not all of them negative.

Not sure what the set-up is with US newspapers but in the UK sub-editors
usually write the headlines.  Our tabloid subs have come out with some
classics over the years.  My personal favourite being when Tom Cruise
declared he was infertile and "The Sun" came up with "Top Gun fires
blanks".

A couple of years ago, I won a prize in a competition to write a suitably
tatty-tabloid type headline about those scary childrens' tv characters the
Tellytubbies (I believe they are now on US tv).

The purple one was fired because they didn't believe he was putting his all
into the role.  The actor playing the Tinky Winky character  was outraged
and said he'd been discriminated against  because he was bisexual.  There
was a huge contretemps about it in the tabloid press.

My very non-pc suggested headline was "Kinky Tinky Winky Stinky".....I won
a Tellytubbies Easter Egg for it <preen>.

- Soo

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 23 11:41:28 1999
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From: "R. Wormus" <rwormus lock-load.com>
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May be of interest to Scott for his Fusor Experiments.

Fusion Star from Diamler-Chrysler AeroSpace

http://www.dasa.com/dasa/index_e.htm?/dasa/e/ri/trauen/fusion/fusion.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 23 12:50:58 1999
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Hamdi -

After reading Kozyrev as suggested on vortex-c, I'm left wondering if a
superconductor is even needed, and that the 'trick' is in getting the right
kind of field to be produced due to spin and vibration. The consistency of a
fairly long startup time for the effects to appear as claimed by both
Podkletnov and Wallace is intriguing, and there's little else to grasp onto
with these experiments as they've proven so difficult to replicate in a
convincing way. It might be a significant clue.

Has there been any traffic on vortex-c lately? I changed my e-mail address
and I might have lost my subscription, even though I tried to re-subscribe.
Haven't seen a single message for days.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 23 13:08:13 1999
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All,
I need some help. I have an accurate analog  AC voltmeter that I want to
convert to read current.

question: if i have an ac voltmeter with an internal resistance of 65.3 ohms,
what value resistor do i need to bridge the meter with to make it read 15
volts while passing a current of 15 amps alternating current.

The meter is an old heavy Weston 2% transformer voltmeter with several
selectable ranges (selected by binding posts!) 
Any help greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 23 14:09:37 1999
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At 09:32 3/23/99 EST, Tstolper aol.com wrote:

>As for the attempt to replicate the gas-phase cell, Scott put his potassium
>catalyst in a stainless-steel cylinder with a small opening set off to one
>side of the filament.  I wonder if any K+ ions at all were produced from that
>setup.

We didn't start out that way.  If you look at the photos in:

http://www.eden.com/~little/blp/prelim.html

you'll see that we initially had the K compound in a shallow pan in a wire
basket just under the filament to provide maximum exposure to the heat.

Now look at:

http://www.eden.com/~little/blp/blprun1.html

There we report that all the K compound evaporated during the first run.
That's why we decided to move it to a somewhat cooler location...but it was
still inside the chamber where temperatures were quite high.

It's probably the fact that I spent so much time studying Mills experiment
writeups, then constructing our own apparatus, discovering its operating
problems and attempting to fix them, but I was surprised when Tom
summarized our efforts with, "Scott didn't take the trouble to follow the
directions that Mills published."



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

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From: "George Holz" <george varisys.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Podklednov/Schuruner effect in the light of the pyramid exp model
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:13:49 -0500
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Rick Monteverde wrote:


>Has there been any traffic on vortex-c lately? I changed my e-mail address
>and I might have lost my subscription, even though I tried to re-subscribe.
>Haven't seen a single message for days.
>
There has been traffic on vortexc-l of at least several messages every day.
Perhaps you should try subscribing again.
-
Your comments about Hamdi's theory are interesting and similar to my own
thinking in this area. Possibly relevant is that gyro experiments claimed
weight loss effects only for one direction of rotation. It seems to me that
torsion effects would give opposite handed rotations above and below the
torsion generator. Different materials could be aligned by one rotation(above)
but ignore the opposite direction rotation (below). One problem here is that
Podklednov did not find obvious material dependencies for weight loss in
his experiment. Given the instability of the results and limited number
of experiments so far, this effect could be present and may be found with 
additional work.
George Holz                    Varitronics Systems
732-356-7773                   george varisys.com
1924 US Hwy 22 East        Bound Brook NJ 08805

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At 15:50 3/23/99 EST, you wrote:
>All,
>I need some help. I have an accurate analog  AC voltmeter that I want to
>convert to read current.
>
>question: if i have an ac voltmeter with an internal resistance of 65.3 ohms,
>what value resistor do i need to bridge the meter with to make it read 15
>volts while passing a current of 15 amps alternating current.

65.3 ohms is too low for a standard voltmeter.  At 15 volts, the thing
would consume 3.4 watts and get noticebly hot.

Is the voltage scale non-linear?  If so, we're dealing with an "iron-vane"
AC voltmeter.  It's probably got an electromagnet coil in it that has
significantly higher impedance than 65.3 ohms at 60 Hz.

A pretty cheap Radio-Shack digital voltmeter will measure AC amps up to 20
amps, I believe.  





Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

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----------
>From: "George Holz" <george varisys.com>
>To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
>Subject: Re: Podklednov/Schuruner effect in the light of the pyramid exp model
>Date: Tue, Mar 23, 1999, 12:13 PM
>

>One problem here is that
>Podklednov did not find obvious material dependencies for weight loss in
>his experiment.

But he did, sort of. Wide cross sections gave more weight change than narrow
ones (same object held in different orientations), a claim that made me
really wonder about the whole thing. I had settled on a multitude of
pointlike sources of the effect as a possible reason -  maybe sourced on the
flux tubes located on the SC's surface.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

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Message-ID: <36F81A6C.B97529A6 bellsouth.net>
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Rick Monteverde wrote:
> 
> Hamdi -
> 
> After reading Kozyrev as suggested on vortex-c, I'm left wondering if a
> superconductor is even needed, and that the 'trick' is in getting the right
> kind of field to be produced due to spin and vibration. The consistency of a
> fairly long startup time for the effects to appear as claimed by both
> Podkletnov and Wallace is intriguing, and there's little else to grasp onto
> with these experiments as they've proven so difficult to replicate in a
> convincing way. It might be a significant clue.

I don't think it was the SC either.  I think that when the valence
electrons form Cooper pairs, thus creating an ionic nucleus, the
magnetic field polarizes the spin axes of the lattice ions.  And,
due to their electric charge, the ions precess around the lines of
magnetic force.  Any other motion (eg vibration) also helps.
 
> Has there been any traffic on vortex-c lately? I changed my e-mail address
> and I might have lost my subscription, even though I tried to re-subscribe.
> Haven't seen a single message for days.

Several messages.  I believe BB is archiving vortexC.

Terry

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From: BriggsRO aol.com
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In a message dated 3/23/99 6:37:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, Tstolper aol.com
writes:

<< Mills has had some highly original ideas in medical technology, but I don't
 think he's had the time to commercialize them. >>

Tom,

I read in a prospectus a couple years ago that Mills had developed and
commercialized a medical imaging system.  I also remember a couple of other
businesses he strted but I don't remember much about them.  If it is
interesting, I'll go back to my file and find it.

I didn't look closely at Scott's work on Mills electrolytic cell but I
followed his gas reactor work closely.  Short of getting help from Mills or
someone who knows Mills work I'm not sure how Scott could have done much
better.  I suspect that his reactor is more similar to Mills than Vince's is,
and I wish someone would give him a hint on how to make it work llike Mills'.
I  disagree with your comments on Mills' 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 23 17:28:48 1999
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Hi,

I've been a long while lurking (its been ages) but I'll take a moment to
say i've learned my first lesson in talking to the press.  I was telephone
interviewed for this article on CF that appears below.  Now, since I almost
got beat up in Asti last time over this sort of thing, the context for my
one quote below [and not my best one either :-( ]...  CF has become an
exemplar of scientific failure for the mainstream scientific community so
that other radical/unbelievable claims are often compared to the CF case
(Huizenga's quote from the bottom of the article being a case in point).

Aw well, the beat goes on....  

btw, way to go Scott!!!

cheers,
Bart (simonb post.queensu.ca)


===============
                            

                 Few scientists still seeking cold
                 fusion 

                 10 years after bold announcement, many
                 have abandoned field, hopes 

                 03/23/99

                 By Alexandra Witze / The Dallas Morning News 

                 Depending on what scientist you talk to, cold fusion is
                 either the scientific blooper of the century - or the
                 greatest promise ever for humanity.

                 Ten years ago Tuesday, chemists Stanley Pons and
                 Martin Fleischmann said they had cooked up nuclear
                 fusion in a test tube. They believed they had
                 harnessed the power of the sun in a simple tabletop
                 experiment - a chemical miracle that promised clean,
                 unlimited energy for the world.

                 That promise turned into a fiasco when other
                 researchers failed to confirm their work. And although a
                 small group of scientists continues to chase the cold
                 fusion dream, others say the episode taught a
                 fundamental lesson: Simple answers aren't always true
                 answers.

                 "It is the exemplar of failure," says Dr. Bart Simon, a
                 sociologist at Queen's University in Ontario who has
                 studied the controversy.

                 True believers in cold fusion number a few hundred
                 researchers worldwide. They have created a
                 subculture of their own, running experiments and
                 claiming results similar to those of Drs. Pons and
                 Fleischmann.

                 These researchers persist - with little or no funding,
                 and long after the broad scientific community wrote
                 them off as crackpots - because they still believe Drs.
                 Pons and Fleischmann stumbled onto a phenomenon
                 that has tremendous implications.

                 "There are a lot of people funding research with their
                 credit cards," says Dr. Michael McKubre, who works on
                 cold fusion at SRI International in Menlo Park, Calif.

                 Narrowing field

                 But even these researchers may not last long. A year
                 ago, the University of Utah - where Drs. Pons and
                 Fleischmann did their original work - let its cold fusion
                 patents lapse, giving up the hope of ever getting any
                 financial payback. The Japanese Ministry of
                 International Trade and Industry, which once gave
                 millions of dollars to cold-fusion research, has closed
                 its major laboratory in the field.

                 Dr. Pons has quit cold fusion work entirely. He
                 continues to do other research in France, where he
                 refuses to let Dr. Fleischmann know how to contact
                 him, according to his former partner.

                 And Dr. McKubre says he's about ready to switch
                 fields.

                 "If I don't know more by the end of the millennium, I'm
                 going to get into something else," he says.

                 The original Pons-Fleischmann experiment seemed
                 deceptively easy - which is perhaps why it held so
                 much attraction in the beginning, scientists say.

                 At a news conference announcing the work, the Utah
                 researchers unveiled a stick of palladium metal,
                 immersed in a bath of heavy water - so called because
                 the hydrogen atoms in ordinary water had been
                 replaced by heavy hydrogen, or deuterium, atoms,
                 which carry an extra neutron.

                 The experiment

                 The scientists applied a simple electrical current, which
                 they believed caused some deuterium atoms to crowd
                 into the metal, forcing the deuterium atoms to fuse and
                 give off excess heat. Four watts of heat were produced
                 for every watt of electricity powering the test tube, the
                 scientists reported.

                 For researchers who had spent billions of dollars trying
                 to fuse atoms at sunlike temperatures, this was a
                 striking announcement. On April 12, Dr. Pons gave his
                 first major scientific talk after the news conference,
                 during a meeting in Dallas of the American Chemical
                 Society. Seven thousand chemists packed into the
                 Dallas Convention Center to cheer him.

                 Just three weeks later, cold fusion got a frostier
                 reception at a meeting of physicists in Baltimore. By
                 that time, several teams from leading universities had
                 failed to reproduce the Pons-Fleischmann experiment.
                 And the scientists weren't sharing details of their work
                 with anyone, saying they preferred to wait until patents
                 had been approved.

                 "You really need the willingness of scientists to open
                 up their lab on one of these spectacular results for
                 other people to come in and confirm it," says Dr.
                 Nathan Lewis, a chemist at the California Institute of
                 Technology. He led one of the failed attempts to verify
                 the claim.

                 Drs. Pons and Fleischmann had, however, passed one
                 of the traditional hurdles for announcing new results:
                 Their first paper describing the work was accepted for
                 publication in the Journal of Electroanalytical
                 Chemistry a day before the news conference. But
                 many other scientists say the paper was sloppy - two
                 pages of corrections were published weeks later - and
                 that the journal's editors should never have agreed to
                 publish work in such an incomplete condition.

                 "They were so afraid of being scooped that they didn't
                 follow the normal rules for scientific publication," says
                 Dr. John Huizenga, a retired physicist from the
                 University of Rochester who co-chaired a U.S.
                 Department of Energy panel that investigated cold
                 fusion.

                 Drs. Pons and Fleischmann have since said they felt
                 pressed to announce their work because they thought
                 Dr. Steven Jones, a physicist at Brigham Young
                 University in Provo, was about to make the same claim.

                 Dr. Jones' team thought it had seen a few extra
                 neutrons - possible signs of fusion - coming from a
                 room-temperature experiment. But it was a much
                 smaller effect than the excess heat Drs. Pons and
                 Fleischmann announced on March 23, and Dr. Jones
                 has emphasized that his work wasn't related.

                 Had Drs. Pons and Fleischmann been right, most
                 scientists say, many groups should have been able to
                 replicate their experiment by now. According to Dr.
                 Lewis, no one ever has - "although there are always a
                 lot of Elvis sightings," he adds.

                 Confirmations?

                 Dr. Fleischmann says that several teams have
                 confirmed the original results over the last 10 years. He
                 says that mainstream scientists don't accept that work
                 because they haven't taken the time and effort to look
                 closely at it.

                 "Somehow, a wave of negative publicity built up, which
                 I always expected to happen," he says from his home in
                 England, where he is now retired from the University of
                 Southampton. "The history of this is appalling, really."

                 Dr. Fleischmann cites a 1990 article by journalist Gary
                 Taubes, which hinted that a graduate student at Texas
                 A&M University had committed scientific fraud to
                 support cold fusion. The reports of fraud - of planting
                 tritium, a nuclear fusion product, in the experiment -
                 were never verified.

                 A&M, which once had four labs trying to verify cold
                 fusion, no longer does research in the area, though a
                 chemistry professor there, John Bockris, continued to
                 support the idea until he retired in 1997.

                 Cold fusion researchers today stick to their own
                 journals, such as Fusion Technology, and their own
                 conferences, such as the International Conference on
                 Cold Fusion, where they discuss each other's work.
                 Several hundred researchers attend these conferences
                 regularly, says Dr. McKubre; the next one will take
                 place on the Italian Riviera in spring 2000.

                 More traditional scientists, though, think this subculture
                 will eventually fade away. Had Drs. Pons and
                 Fleischmann been onto something achievable, the last
                 decade would surely have revealed it, says Dr.
                 Huizenga.

                 "It would have been such an enormous development,"
                 he says.

                 But instead of being the energy breakthrough of the
                 century, cold fusion has entered the annals of science
                 with a much different reputation, Dr. Huizenga adds.

                 "In terms of scientific fiascos, I think this is at the
top of
                 the list."





=====================================================
Bart Simon			simonb post.queensu.ca
Dept. of Sociology		http://post.queensu.ca/~simonb/
Queen's University
Kingston, Ontario		phone: 613-533-6000 x77152
K7L-3N6			fax: 613-533-2871
=====================================================


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 23 19:04:34 1999
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From: hamdi ucar <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
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Hi all,

This is a edited, revised and more formal version of my previous posting, thanks to Terry. I hope it would be more easy to follow my obscure sentences.:)

Regards, 
hamdi ucar

----------

I think I figured an alternate way to model the superconductor-weight reduction phenomenon:

Superconductors emit some field (torsion field ?), which alter the gravitational property of sample material.

So the SC does not alter, shield nor generate gravity and does not emit force fields to push or pull the sample weights. NASA's sophisticated gravitometers may not measure the effect because the _gravitational field is not altered_ at all. What is altered

, is the natural, random dynamic inside the matter which governs its gravitational properties, roughly it's weight. 

I suggest the gravity is in a stochastic nature and caused by the dynamic of the matter, and if one disturbs this random dynamic, ; for example to align, polarize, create anisotropy,  and destroys the natural distribution pattern of the internal dynamic o

f the matter, then the gravitational property of the matter is affected.

What is the dynamic inside the matter which determines its gravitational behavior? I don't know. I don't know it's scale. Is it in molecular scale? in atomic, subatomic scale? or at Planck length? I don't know. But the experiments suggest they are not of 

very high energies, but accessible at low energies.

Results: 

1) NASA should incorporate direct weight measurement of different samples of materials to replicate Podkletnov’s experiments.

2) As it is likely that the gravitational properties of the matter are affected slowly and progressively, prolonged experiment times would be necessary to observe the anomalies.

3) Gravity shielding effect is not required to explain the apparent low gravity zone column. As discussed before, a simple shielding model require a cone shadow and this is not consistent with observations. Another proposed solution for weight reduction i

s  based that the SC is emitting a force field along its axis direction. But this one have serious difficulties because was no reactional force observed on SC setup, and a substantial energy requirement to operate a long range repulsive field was hardly p

ossible with the energy source and flow of the Podkletnov experiment.

4) The difficulty of explaining the asymmetry, why the phenomenon was observable only above the setup and not below it, without the shielding hypothesis now be explained to some extent without the shield hypothesis:

   Logically one can expect the SC to affect the space symmetrically, and if it is emitting something, it should emit from both sides. Now if the relax (the restrictions about) the nature of the field radiated from the disk, by removing the need to interf

ere with the gravity or cause gravity, other hypothetical kind of fields are possible. And such a field can interfere with the structure of the matter in a sophisticated way, not in a symmetrical / isotropic way like gravitational force or like other fiel

ds interact with matter.

  a) It is more easier to hypothesize a field emitted from the SC disk asymmetrically in this frame of thought.

  b) Even if the SC emits fields symmetrically, both above and below, the fields could interfere with the matter anisotropically, and this anisotropy can be related to the present gravitational field. In this model, it is not required the SC emit a beam l

ike field creating a column above it, but  a kind of field can be hypothesized as effective if it is in the same direction of the gravitational force. It is also permitted the matter would gain anisotropic gravitational properties after being affected by 

the field emitted by SC. So future  weight-loss experiments can be designed to check this anisotropy possibility, a kind of gravitational polarization.

5) The proposed model appears be compatible with the Podkletnov  experiment  energy conditions: 
As noted before,  If the SC setup were generating force fields which were responsible for pushing the sample upward, an energy transfer would be needed to raise samples against gravity. This was not readily acceptable because, there was no apparent energy

 loss from the SC setup which is needed to be transferred to rising material by the levitation force. According the proposed model the such a energy transfer is not needed. The field caused by the SC setup act as a gate to alter gravitational property of 

the sample weights. This scheme appears is not entering the energy cycle of  sample weights working against gravity. This look like the work thermostatic soldering iron tips. When the tip is heated at its Curie point, it lost its ferromagnetic property an

d spring separate the tip from the armature. This travel do some work. When the tip return its ferromagnetic state again pulled to the armature. Now it appears that the energy requiring to heating and cooling the tip is indepe!
ndent from the mechanical work done. Obviously in a standard soldering irons, the thermal energy transferred is much more than the tip’s mechanical work But if the tip is prolonged in a deep uniform magnetic field and balanced with a constant force (would

 be its own weight), the mechanical work done by the tip could be greater then the thermal work. No violation of conservation of energy of course here, because the mechanical energy gained is balanced by the magnetic energy source. So in Podkletnov experi

ment the field emerging from the disk replace is the "heat", which  modify the gravitational "susceptibility" of the test material. The mechanical work gained by moving test weight, potential or kinetic energy is should be supplied by the gravitational fi

eld of the Earth according this analogy. This is highly controversial, but there is no other source to conserve the energy balance. If we do not worry to steal the gravitational energy of the Earth we would have a source of pl!
enty free energy. :)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 23 19:12:54 1999
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Hello all from the APS meeting in Atlanta, the cheapest conference I have
ever attended. I got there for subway fare, got in with a free with
journalist's pass, and the APS gave me free fruit and coffee. Not bad!

On Monday there were three good papers on CF but I had to miss them to
attend the anti-cold-fusion lynch mob session instead. It featuring Bob
Park, Huizenga, Morrison, the Amazing Randi, and a top Federal science
honcho named Zimmerman from the State Department Arms Control Agency. It
was a trip! Zimmerman is conducting a jihad against cold fusion, vowing to
wipe it out in the State Department, the Patent Office (?) and the Commerce
Department with the help of the President's Science Advisor. (The Patent
Office?!? And they call *us* kooks!) It was a depressing and alarming, yet
droll. I will describe it in detail when I get a chance. I must tell about
the weirdest part here, because if I do not write it down I might think I
dreamed it.

Zimmerman gave a rousing anti-cold-fusion talk, pressing all the buttons.
He said that one of his first official acts was to cancel a meeting about
cold fusion, and "that's one of the accomplishments I'm proudest of within
the last year." He announced that he and Park will work to exterminate
every trace of CF and all other "junk science" from the Federal
establishment. They will see to it that no other meetings are held anywhere
else in Washington, which is a hotbed of cold fusion as we all know. He
called upon the audience to join him in this crusade, and to report to the
highest authorities any rumors about unauthorized research and groups of
more than three people caught discussing cold fusion. Naturally, this was
met with met with cheers and applause from overflow crowd there, which was
a sort of sci.physics.fusion come to life. I thought people like that only
existed on Internet.

Anyway, here is the weird part. After the session I approached Zimmerman
and asked him for the exact spelling of his name and his job title. He
grabbed some papers and held them to his chest, covering his badge, and he
said I'm not going to tell you. He looked like John Cleese in "A Fish
Called Wanda" where he is caught naked in a stranger's apartment. He said
"I am not officially here." I asked if he planned to publish his remarks in
the proceedings and he said maybe in a noncommittal tone (meaning: No Way).
Apparently he wants his statements off the record, yet he had made them in
front of a cheering crowd and he saw me wearing a press badge, sitting in
the front row, taking photographs and recording the lecture on audio tape!
Does he think I plan to keep it secret? Does he think I am so dumb I will
not look up his name in the conference registry or call State?  Let me
recap: we have a top science advisor at the State Department -- an
appointed official of the U.S. Government, making maybe $100 K in the
taxpayer's money. His proudest accomplishment so far has been to disrupt a
meeting, which tells me he needs to get a life, or get a job. He boasted to
400 people that his policy is to ban discussions about cold fusion, and he
wants to instigate purges in other departments, BUT he will not put this
policy in writing, and he will not give a journalist his name. If that is
not Alice-In-Wonderland material I do not know what is. The story is too
improbable to sell as fiction.

To me, this proves once and for all that there is no conspiracy against
cold fusion. Two reasons:

1. A guy who tries to hide his name tag could not conspire his way out of a
paper bag. His "cover up" is literally a piece of paper held to his chest,
to cover up. Not James Bond.

2. When you announce it is your policy to oppress a field of science to
cheering crowd of 400 people, and you ask them to join you, that is not a
conspiracy, folks. Conspiracies are covert, this was overt (except sort of
ex-post facto off the record). This was no conspiracy, it was a Movement, a
Revival, or a Crusade. It was like nothing I have ever seen before, or ever
hope to see again.

And no, I did not snap a photo of the guy holding the paper over his name
tag, but by golly I hereby claim the movie rights.

- Jed

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Subject: Re: Podkletnov/Schuruner effect .... revised version
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At 4:56 AM 3/24/99, hamdi ucar wrote:
[snip]

> NASA's sophisticated gravitometers may not measure the effect because the
>_gravitational field is not altered_ at all. What is altered, is the natural,
> random dynamic inside the matter which governs its gravitational properties,
>roughly it's weight.

Anyone know how the gravitometers being used work?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 23 19:50:18 1999
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Subject: Re: Podkletnov/Schuruner effect .... revised version
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick highsurf.com>
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Horace -


>Anyone know how the gravitometers being used work?

I'm not sure exactly what NASA is using, but I understand that the principle
the standard gravitometer for geological work is based on is a sort of
shielded electrometer, where the position of a movable charged element is
measured under the assumption that the charges don't change. So any
re-alignment in position is asumed to be due to a change in the acceleration
of gravity. These are supposed to be extremely sensitive to any such
changes. If properly shielded, they should detect any real change in gravity
near a successful experiment. However, perhaps they could also get spoofed
by strong AC fields penetrating inadequate shielding.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

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--------------41A0E005E0217CC2AC2E4C05
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>    -----------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: H2 w/K glow discharge
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:50:23 EST
> From: VCockeram aol.com
> To: vortex-l eskimo.com
>
> All,
> I need some help. I have an accurate analog  AC voltmeter
> that I want to
> convert to read current.
>
> question: if i have an ac voltmeter with an internal
> resistance of 65.3 ohms,
> what value resistor do i need to bridge the meter with to
> make it read 15
> volts while passing a current of 15 amps alternating
> current.
>
> The meter is an old heavy Weston 2% transformer voltmeter
> with several
> selectable ranges (selected by binding posts!)
> Any help greatly appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Vince Cockeram
> Las Vegas Nevada
>
>    -----------------------------------------------------
>
    Vince;

    According to my text book, shunting an AC voltmeter to
make an ammeter is not recommended, because the currents
won't divide properly (the inductance of the meter coil).
However, the 1 ohm shunt resistor that you need for your
experiment will likely eliminate any problems.

I have an old Weston power (Watt) meter (4x4x3 inches and
heavy, probably the same vintage as yours) that claims
accuracy for 25 - 1000 cps.  This implies some internal
frequency compensation for inductance.  Yours probably has
something similar.

We can bound the accuracy of the system by use of the
internal resistance (65.3 Ohm) and the likely impedance at
your frequency (within the meter's range?).

    Ignoring Phase factors, inductance, etc.

    Rt = total resistance =  15 V(rms?) / 15 A = 1 Ohm

    Rs = shunt resistance

    1/Rs + 1/ 65.3 ohm = 1/Rt = 1 / 1 Ohm

    => Rs =  65.3 ohm / 64.3  = 1.015 Ohm

A 1 Ohm shunt will give you better than 2% accuracy (worst
case) by itself.  Inductance will decrease the current thru
the meter and increase the accuracy.  Contact resistance
will likely provide you some additional value.  However, if
you add 2 feet of #16 copper wire you'll get ~ 0.008 Ohms
more (at 20C).

If you can't readily find such a shunt (~250 watts), put 10
25W 10 Ohm resistors (not wire-wound) in parallel (leave
them room to breathe).  The result will likely be more
accurate than your meter (particularly if you use a VOM when
you select the resistors).

With a 1.00 Ohm shunt only, you should get 0 - 1% accuracy
(reading lower than actual).  With the addition of 2 feet of
wire (folded, not coiled), you should get 0 - 1% accuracy
(reading higher than actual).  If you know that your shunt
contact resistance is in the mOhm range, you could use more
wire.

Good Luck,

Drew M.

--------------41A0E005E0217CC2AC2E4C05
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<HR WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>

<P><NOBR><B>Subject: </B>Re: H2 w/K glow discharge</NOBR>
<BR><NOBR><B>Date: </B>Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:50:23 EST</NOBR>
<BR><NOBR><B>From: </B>VCockeram aol.com</NOBR>
<BR><NOBR><B>To: </B>vortex-l eskimo.com</NOBR>
<PRE VARIABLE WRAP>All,
I need some help. I have an accurate analog&nbsp; AC voltmeter that I want to
convert to read current.

question: if i have an ac voltmeter with an internal resistance of 65.3 ohms,
what value resistor do i need to bridge the meter with to make it read 15
volts while passing a current of 15 amps alternating current.

The meter is an old heavy Weston 2% transformer voltmeter with several
selectable ranges (selected by binding posts!)&nbsp;
Any help greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada</PRE>

<HR WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4></BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Vince;

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; According to my text book, shunting an AC voltmeter
to make an ammeter is not recommended, because the currents won't divide
properly (the inductance of the meter coil).&nbsp;&nbsp; However, the 1
ohm shunt resistor that you need for your experiment will likely eliminate
any problems.

<P>I have an old Weston power (Watt) meter (4x4x3 inches and heavy, probably
the same vintage as yours) that claims&nbsp; accuracy for 25 - 1000 cps.&nbsp;
This implies some internal frequency compensation for inductance.&nbsp;
Yours probably has something similar.

<P>We can bound the accuracy of the system by use of the internal resistance
(65.3 Ohm) and the likely impedance at your frequency (within the meter's
range?).

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ignoring Phase factors, inductance, etc.

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Rt = total resistance =&nbsp; 15 V(rms?) / 15 A =
1 Ohm

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Rs = shunt resistance

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1/Rs + 1/ 65.3 ohm = 1/Rt = 1 / 1 Ohm

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; => Rs =&nbsp; 65.3 ohm / 64.3&nbsp; = 1.015 Ohm

<P>A 1 Ohm shunt will give you better than 2% accuracy (worst case) by
itself.&nbsp; Inductance will decrease the current thru the meter and increase
the accuracy.&nbsp; Contact resistance will likely provide you some additional
value.&nbsp; However, if you add 2 feet of #16 copper wire you'll get ~
0.008 Ohms more (at 20C).

<P>If you can't readily find such a shunt (~250 watts), put 10 25W 10 Ohm
resistors (not wire-wound) in parallel (leave them room to breathe).&nbsp;
The result will likely be more accurate than your meter (particularly if
you use a VOM when you select the resistors).

<P>With a 1.00 Ohm shunt only, you should get 0 - 1% accuracy (reading
lower than actual).&nbsp; With the addition of 2 feet of wire (folded,
not coiled), you should get 0 - 1% accuracy (reading higher than actual).&nbsp;
If you know that your shunt contact resistance is in the mOhm range, you
could use more wire.

<P>Good Luck,

<P>Drew M.</HTML>

--------------41A0E005E0217CC2AC2E4C05--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 23 20:41:01 1999
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:33:01 +0200
From: hamdi ucar <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
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Subject: Re: Podkletnov/Schuruner effect .... revised version
References: <v01530501b31e0b11825f [12.21.209.99]>
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Horace Heffner wrote:
> 
> At 4:56 AM 3/24/99, hamdi ucar wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> > NASA's sophisticated gravitometers may not measure the effect because the
> >_gravitational field is not altered_ at all. What is altered, is the natural,
> > random dynamic inside the matter which governs its gravitational properties,
> >roughly it's weight.
> 
> Anyone know how the gravitometers being used work?

Good question. proper name is "gravimeter" as I used in first posting.

Search on web "gravimeter" gives a good page:
 http://cires.colorado.edu/~bilham/FG5operation.html

This gravimeter works by measuring the time of a free falling body. Although its sensitivity is 1 per billion, but this is not really equivalent measure the gravity by weight measurement. This is  because it is not clear the "effect" only alter the gravit

ational property of the matter but left inertia intact, although inertia alteration is hardly possible. An other difference is between free fall measurement and weight measurement is the test material does not feel the gravity or feel it differently when 

it is in free fall than it is held. And may depend how the field emerging from the SC would affect the test material differently in this two different states. Some thoughts.

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 23 20:47:22 1999
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Subject: Re: News from the APS meeting
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At 10:04 PM 3/23/99 -0500, Jed Rothwell wrote:

>Hello all from the APS meeting in Atlanta....

Did McKubre speak?  The press release posted here about a week ago
indicated that he was going to stand up and tell the conference that cold
fusion is real.

However, the Dallas Morning News article that Simon just posted says:

>                 And Dr. McKubre says he's about ready to switch
>                 fields.
>
>                 "If I don't know more by the end of the millennium, I'm
>                 going to get into something else," he says.


???


Scott Little 
EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 23 20:57:25 1999
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Subject: Re: Podkletnov/Schuruner effect .... revised version
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At 06:26 PM 3/23/99 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote:

>Anyone know how the gravitometers being used work?

The old gravimeters were just sensitive balances that weighed a standard
weight.  One of the most well-known companies, LaCoste and Romberg, is
right here in Austin.  I found a photo and description of one of their
older models at:

http://www.seg.org/museum/VM/Images/pict0258.html


Scott Little 
EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 23 23:20:48 1999
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From: VCockeram aol.com
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 02:18:42 EST
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In a message dated 03/23/1999 14:11:20 Pacific Standard Time, little eden.com
writes:
> 65.3 ohms is too low for a standard voltmeter.  At 15 volts, the thing
>  would consume 3.4 watts and get noticebly hot.
>  
>  Is the voltage scale non-linear?  If so, we're dealing with an "iron-vane"
>  AC voltmeter.  It's probably got an electromagnet coil in it that has
>  significantly higher impedance than 65.3 ohms at 60 Hz.
>  

>  Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
It doesn't get hot Scott.  Also has liner scale. It's a Weston model 904 thats
rated for 25 to 125 Hz The spec which is etched into the meter faceplate says
65.3 ohms on the 15 volt scale and a good digital meter confirms this.  Agreed
I don't know what the impedence is at 60 Hz. 
I used to use this meter to set up the filiment power supplies on tube
computers where the low meter resistance didn't matter.

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 23 23:41:28 1999
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From: VCockeram aol.com
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In a message dated 03/23/1999 20:24:34 Pacific Standard Time, amule erols.com
writes:
>      Vince;
>  
>      According to my text book, shunting an AC voltmeter to
>  make an ammeter is not recommended, because the currents
>  won't divide properly (the inductance of the meter coil).
>  However, the 1 ohm shunt resistor that you need for your
>  experiment will likely eliminate any problems.
 
Yes, I tried a 1 ohm 100 watt resistor I had lying around and it looks loke it
will do.

>  I have an old Weston power (Watt) meter (4x4x3 inches and
>  heavy, probably the same vintage as yours) that claims
>  accuracy for 25 - 1000 cps.  This implies some internal
>  frequency compensation for inductance.  Yours probably has
>  something similar.

Mine is a Weston model 904, pretty much same size
  
>  We can bound the accuracy of the system by use of the
>  internal resistance (65.3 Ohm) and the likely impedance at
>  your frequency (within the meter's range?).
>  
>      Ignoring Phase factors, inductance, etc.
>  
>      Rt = total resistance =  15 V(rms?) / 15 A = 1 Ohm
>  
>      Rs = shunt resistance
>  
>      1/Rs + 1/ 65.3 ohm = 1/Rt = 1 / 1 Ohm
>  
>      => Rs =  65.3 ohm / 64.3  = 1.015 Ohm
>  
>  A 1 Ohm shunt will give you better than 2% accuracy (worst
>  case) by itself.  
    <<snip>>
>  If you can't readily find such a shunt (~250 watts), put 10
>  25W 10 Ohm resistors (not wire-wound) in parallel (leave
>  them room to breathe).  The result will likely be more
>  accurate than your meter (particularly if you use a VOM when
>  you select the resistors).
>  With a 1.00 Ohm shunt only, you should get 0 - 1% accuracy
>  (reading lower than actual).  With the addition of 2 feet of
>  wire (folded, not coiled), you should get 0 - 1% accuracy
>  (reading higher than actual).  If you know that your shunt
>  contact resistance is in the mOhm range, you could use more
>  wire.
>  Good Luck,
>  Drew M.

Thanks very much Drew, you have solved the problem for me.

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada
702-254-2122

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 00:39:00 1999
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-----Original Message-----

        Tribute to the Phone Company

One thing that has always bugged me, and I'm sure it does most of you, is to
sit down at the dinner table only to be interrupted by a phone call from a
telemarketer. I decided, on one such occasion, to try to be as irritating as
they were to me. The call was from AT&T and it went something like this:
(swallowing)
Me:     Hello
AT&T:     Hello, this is AT&T...
Me:     Is this AT&T?
AT&T:     Yes, this is AT&T...
Me:     This is AT&T?
AT&T:     Yes This is AT&T...
Me:     Is this AT&T?
AT&T:     YES! This is AT&T, may I speak to Mr. Byron please?
Me:     May I ask who is calling?
AT&T:     This is AT&T.
Me:     OK, hold on.
At this point I put the phone down for a solid 5 minutes thinking that,
surely, this person would have hung up the phone. I ate my salad. Much to my
surprise, when I picked up the receiver, they were still waiting.

Me:     Hello?
AT&T:     Is this Mr. Byron?
Me:     May I ask who is calling please?
AT&T:     Yes this is AT&T...
Me:     Is this AT&T?
AT&T:     Yes this is AT&T...
Me:     This is AT&T?
AT&T:     Yes, is this Mr. Byron?
Me:     Yes, is this AT&T?
AT&T:     Yes sir.
Me:     The phone company?
AT&T:     Yes sir.
Me:     I thought you said this was AT&T.
AT&T:     Yes sir, we are a phone company.
Me:     I already have a phone.
AT&T:     We aren't selling phones today Mr.Byron.
Me:     Well whatever it is,  I'm really not interested but thanks for
calling.(When you are not interested in something, I don't think you can
express yourself any plainer than by saying "I'm really not interested", but
this lady was persistent.)
AT&T:     Mr. Byron we would like to offer you 10 cents a minute, 24 hours a
day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.(Now, I am sure she meant she was
offering a "rate" of 10 cents a minute but she at no time used the word
rate. I could clearly see that it was time to whip out the trusty old
calculator and do a little ciphering.)

Me:     Now, that's 10 cents a minute 24 hours a day?
AT&T:     (getting a little excited at this point by my interest) Yes sir
that's right! 24 hours a day!
Me:     7 days a week?
AT&T:     That's right.
Me:     365 days a year?
AT&T:     Yes sir.
Me:     I am definitely interested in that! Wow!!! That's amazing!
AT&T:     We think so!
Me:     That's quite a sum of money!
AT&T:     Yes sir, it's amazing how it adds up.
Me:     OK, so will you send me checks weekly,monthly or just one big one at
the end of the year
for the full $52,560, and if you send an annual
check, can I get a cash advance?
AT&T:     Excuse me?
Me:     You know, the 10 cents a minute.
AT&T:     What are you talking about?
Me:     You said you'd give me 10 cents a minute,24 hours a day, 7 days a
week, 365 days a year.
That comes to $144 per day, $1,008 per week and $52,560 per year. I'm just
interested in knowing how you will be making payment.

AT&T:     Oh no sir I didn't mean we'd be paying
you. You pay us 10 cents a minute.
Me:     Wait a minute here!!! Didn't you say you'd give me 10 cents a
minute. Are you sure this is AT&T?
AT&T:     Well, yes this is AT&T sir but......
Me:     But nothing, how do you figure that by saying that you'll  give me
10 cents a minute that
I'll give you 10 cents a minute?  Is this some kind of subliminal
telemarketing scheme? I've read
about things like this in the Enquirer you know.
Don't use your alien brainwashing techniques on me.

AT&T:     No sir we are offering 10 cents a minute for.....
Me:     THERE YOU GO AGAIN! Can I speak to a supervisor please!
AT&T:     Sir I don't think that is necessary.
Me:     Sure! You say that now! What happens later?
AT&T:     What?
Me:     I insist on speaking to a supervisor!
AT&T:     Yes Mr. Byron. Please hold.
(So now AT&T has me on hold and my supper is getting cold. I begin to eat
while I'm waiting for a supervisor.  After a wait of a few minutes and while
I have a mouth full of food).
Supervisor: Mr. Byron?
Me:     Yeth?
Supervisor: I understand you are not quite understanding our 10 cents a
minute program.
Me:     Id thish Ath Teeth & Teeth?
Supervisor: Yes sir, it sure is.
(I had to swallow before I choked on my food. It
was all I could do to suppress my laughter and I
had to be careful not to produce a snort.)
Me:     No, actually I was just waiting for someone to get back to me so
that I could sign up for the plan.
Supervisor: OK, no problem, I'll transfer you back
to the person who was helping you.
Me:     Thank you.

(I was on hold once again and managed a few more
mouthfuls. I needed to end this conversation.
Suddenly, there was an aggravated but polite voice
at the other end of the phone.)
AT&T:     Hello Mr. Byron, I understand that you
are interested in signing up for our plan?
Me:     Do you have that friends and family thing
because you can never have enough friends and am an only child and I'd
really like to have a little    brother...AT&T:     (click)



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At 02:39 3/24/99 EST, VCockeram aol.com wrote:

>Thanks very much Drew, you have solved the problem for me.

The 1 ohm shunt will certainly work but, as Drew pointed out, you will
dissipate 225 watts in it at 15 amps and you will drop 15 volts across it
at 15 amps.  

The Radio Shack 22-182 measures 15 amps AC with a 0.5 volt drop across it.
This meter, which costs about $130, also has an RS-232 interface which
allows you to read it with a computer and log the data to a disk file.


Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 07:05:14 1999
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Mike and Jed saw Randell Mills as a man on a tightrope over a chasm.  I can
understand the reasoning behind the image, but personally, I prefer to think
of Mills as someone who has just moved into a splendid new fortress or castle.
He'll probably have to raise more money if he wants to stay there for long,
especially if he plans to garrison it with a hundred or more employees, most
of them scientific personnel; but raising $10 million wasn't very hard for
Mills in 1997, and I'd guess that raising even more won't be an insuperable
problem for him this year or next.  It seems to me that the only question is
what percentage of the company he'll have to sell for what amount of money.

Mills put a lot of new material on the BLP website early this year.  It'll
take people a while to digest it.  I'd be surprised if there were a parade of
new press releases in 1999.  Maybe next year.  

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 07:07:20 1999
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Vince,

Thanks for the offer of the JPEG images.  My browser is AOL v3.01 for the Mac.
How does it handle JPEG images (I've only used it for GIFs so far)?

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 07:11:46 1999
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Vince, 

Re the title of your thread:  fair enough, I see your point.

Re the power input.  There have already been some doubts expressed about
measuring it even with DC.  If AC is harder to measure, then those doubts may
increase.

It seems to me that one wants the lowest possible wattage in that will
maintain a continuous arc in the cell.  The greater the relative temperature
change with K , the better, i.e, the higher the ratio of heat out to power in,
the better.

I hope you still have the old power supply, because the new one might produce
less dramatic results.  But if so, well, that's life in the experimental lane.

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 07:58:44 1999
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:58:44 -0600
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Dear Bart Simon,

As a sociologist, I can understand your interest in cold fusion, not as
a science but as a metaphor for the human condition. We are all at the
mercy of our internal models when interpreting reality. Fortunately,
some people are less controlled by this internal world than are others,
otherwise no progress would occur at all.  Even so, the controlled folks
are clearly in the majority.

The Cold Fusion drama has separated science into these two groups.  The
believers see a strange behavior of nature and say “why not” while the
skeptics see the same results and say  “impossible”.  As long as the
results remain  subtile, the field retains its value as a diagnostic
tool, separating people who defend “ideas of the common” from people who
dream of new possibilities.  This is not to say that one group is better
than the other.  Many dreamers have led mankind to destruction while
many controlled people keep making the same mistakes, again producing
suffering.  Still, it is a little discouraging to find so many of the
latter in science which prides its self on creative thinking.

But getting back to Cold Fusion. As everyone knows, science has a
mechanism to discover the truth, independent of this limitation. 
Science requires many people to see the same thing and arrive at a
predictive explanation.  In fact, many people have seen the same
phenomenon but only after applying considerable skill.  This skill is
not widely held, especially in physics which is the dominate science
these days.  Consequently, the results are ignored by scientists who do
not have the skill to do the work and who do not agree that other people
might be more skillful than they are.  It boils down to intellectual
arrogance.  As long as the mind is clouded by such emotion, as well as
by a predisposition to believe the “commons”, there is no hope for a
resolution of the CF debate.  The only hope is to produce an effect of
such magnitude that even a fool must be impressed.  Until then, we will
continue to separate people into the two groups.

Ed Storms

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 08:19:46 1999
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Posted-Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:13:16 +0300 (MEST)
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:15:07 +0200
From: hamdi ucar <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
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Subject: Re: Podkletnov/Schuruner effect .... revised version
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Hi,

The given soldering iron example (in my revised posting) seems have some flaws or misinterpretations. 

Working on it, and will try to clarify the issue. Although this is not related to torsion fields, it would be important for general energy conservation issue.


hamdi ucar wrote:
[snip]

> This look like the work thermostatic soldering iron tips. When the tip
> is heated at its Curie point, it lost its ferromagnetic property and
> spring separate the tip from the armature. 

Actually in my soldering iron, tip is a permanent magnet, heat flip its magnetism off and on.

Regards, 
hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 08:26:05 1999
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Rick Monteverde wrote:

> Horace -
>
> >Anyone know how the gravitometers being used work?
>
> I'm not sure exactly what NASA is using, but I understand that the principle
> the standard gravitometer for geological work is based on is a sort of
> shielded electrometer, where the position of a movable charged element is
> measured under the assumption that the charges don't change. So any
> re-alignment in position is asumed to be due to a change in the acceleration
> of gravity. These are supposed to be extremely sensitive to any such
> changes. If properly shielded, they should detect any real change in gravity
> near a successful experiment. However, perhaps they could also get spoofed
> by strong AC fields penetrating inadequate shielding.
>
> - Rick Monteverde
> Honolulu, HI

http://www.lacosteromberg.com/landmtr.html
This is the gravimeter used by NASA's Delta-G team.  It isn't the exact model,
because the one we used was a modified version of the G or D model (what
modifications were made, I don't know).


--
Regards,
Patrick V. Reavis
http://ro.com/~preavis
http://ro.com/~preavis/Quiz


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 08:33:27 1999
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From: "Scudder, Henry J" <Henry.Scudder West.Boeing.com>
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Vince
	Let me second Scott's message. A 63 ohm voltmeter is very unusual.
It's an AC meter, hence there is probably a fairly large inductance in
series with the movement, and the meter doesn't depend on a dropping
resistor alone to divide the voltage from the line to the movement. It may
not be rated at frequencies other then 60Hz. Also 225 watts is a lot of heat
wasted just to read a current. Most ammeters have a shunt in the milliohms,
and use a 50mv full scale meter to read the voltage across it, thus
measuring the current. I have a meter like Scott suggests, and it has a
millivolt scale. I have used it to measure amperage in my electric car.

Hank

> ----------
> From: 	VCockeram aol.com[SMTP:VCockeram@aol.com]
> Reply To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
> Sent: 	Tuesday, March 23, 1999 12:50 PM
> To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
> Subject: 	Re: H2 w/K glow discharge
> 
> All,
> I need some help. I have an accurate analog  AC voltmeter that I want to
> convert to read current.
> 
> question: if i have an ac voltmeter with an internal resistance of 65.3
> ohms,
> what value resistor do i need to bridge the meter with to make it read 15
> volts while passing a current of 15 amps alternating current.
> 
> The meter is an old heavy Weston 2% transformer voltmeter with several
> selectable ranges (selected by binding posts!) 
> Any help greatly appreciated.
> 
> Regards,
> Vince Cockeram
> Las Vegas Nevada
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 10:18:52 1999
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Subject: Wisdom at the BBC on cold fusion
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 Vorts:

>From the BBC: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 
 
"Should the cold fusion dream die?" 
    by BBC Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse 

 "Cold fusion has had only a tiny fraction of the effort and resources that 
  have been lavished on "hot" fusion research. And we have 
  had virtually no return on that investment. 
  We should give the cold fusion camp time and 
  encouragement.   We live in a fusion universe." 

   Click here for story: 
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_301000/301893.stm 

   More on cold fusion at: 
   http://world.std.com/~mica/cftrefs.html 
 and http://kemi.aau.dk/~db/fusion 
 
  

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 14:25:10 1999
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From: VCockeram aol.com
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In a message dated 03/24/1999 07:02:49 Pacific Standard Time, Tstolper AOL.COM
writes:

> Thanks for the offer of the JPEG images.  My browser is AOL v3.01 for the
Mac.
> 
>  How does it handle JPEG images (I've only used it for GIFs so far)?
>  
>  Tom Stolper

You got me Tom.  If the Mac wont handle jpg files see if you have a photo
program that will convert them (Paint Shop Pro?) 
I'd have thought the AOL viewer would open both gif and jpg files.

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas
702-254-2122

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 14:27:00 1999
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In a message dated 03/24/1999 07:11:30 Pacific Standard Time, Tstolper aol.com
writes:
> Vince, 
>  Re the title of your thread:  fair enough, I see your point.
>  
>  Re the power input.  There have already been some doubts expressed about
>  measuring it even with DC.  If AC is harder to measure, then those doubts 
> may increase.

If the analog setup described below is too iffy, I could use a standard watt-
hour meter. I have catalogs listing them.
I fried two digital meters before I got it right measuring DC input power with
the 5kV supply. It wasn't that hard...just expensive.  :-) (plus I learned a
lot )
>  
>  It seems to me that one wants the lowest possible wattage in that will
>  maintain a continuous arc in the cell.  The greater the relative
temperature
>  change with K , the better, i.e., the higher the ratio of heat out to power
> in, the better.
>
OK Tom, I'll give that a try also. I'm using an AC ammeter ( analog,2%) and a
true RMS digital voltmeter to measure INPUT to the HV transformer, whose specs
are:
Primary 120 volts  250 VA   Secondary  10 Kilovolts  23 milliamps  Center
tapped to the transformer case.

>  
>  I hope you still have the old power supply, because the new one might 
> produce less dramatic results.  But if so, well, that's life in the
experimental 
> lane.

My choice for using AC tube excitation is twofold; One, my hunch that AC might
improve the chance of collisions between elements in the arc (glow?) and, two,
the fact that Dr. Mills used a gas phase reactor that used microwaves to power
the glow discharge ( at a 1 kilowatt input), sourced from am Astex Model
S1500I (frequency was not specified, and the   experiment was not used for
heat output but rather for the production of unique hydride compounds.
And yes, I still have the big HV supply I built.  
>  
>  Tom Stolper
>

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada
702-254-2122  

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 14:49:21 1999
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At 17:15 3/24/99 EST, VCockeram aol.com wrote:

>If the analog setup described below is too iffy, I could use a standard watt-
>hour meter. I have catalogs listing them.

I think you should get an old residential watthour meter, Vince.  They're
wonderfully accurate machines with tons of reliablility engineering behind
them.

Herbach and Rademan (1-800-848-8001) sells one for $29.50:

"4 DIAL 120 VAC - Westinghouse or equal type CS single phase 2 wire. Rated
120VAC 60Hz 15 amps. Requires 4 lug meter box.  Sise 6" dia x 5" deep.
Ideal for trailer parks, rental cabins, H2/K discharge experiments, etc.
Removed from equipment, excellent condition.  Wt. 7 lbs."    cat. no.
TM95MET2830

you also need:

"SURFACE MOUNT METER BOX - For Four lug plug-in Meters"  TM93MET2387 $9.95

I have that particular meter and it's "Kh" is 1, which means that the wheel
revolves once for every watthour (3600 joules).  To measure relatively low
power levels you ignore the dials and use a stopwatch to time one
revolution of the wheel.  The power in watts is given by 3600/revtime.  

Due to the magnetic bearing suspension of the wheel, the meter box must be
mounted on a vertical surface for proper operation.  I made a little wooden
stand for mine.



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

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Subject: thermal neutrons
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I ran my fusor with a 3He counter next to it...at about the same distance
as the Bicron fast neutron scintillator.  In 10 minutes, the 3He counter
registered 8 counts.  During the same period, the Bicron registered 5320.
I then repeated the 10 minute counts with the fusor turned off.  The 3He
counter registered 0 counts while the Bicron showed 136.

I'm still searching for definitive info on the expected efficiency of the
3He counter for thermal neutrons but, from the 3He(n,p) cross-section
alone, it looks like it should be nearly 100%.

Thus it does not look like my fusor is making any thermal neutrons.  Either
that or my 3He counter is bad (it is brand new).



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 15:49:02 1999
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: thermal neutrons
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At 5:01 PM 3/24/99, Scott Little wrote:
>I ran my fusor with a 3He counter next to it...at about the same distance
>as the Bicron fast neutron scintillator.  In 10 minutes, the 3He counter
>registered 8 counts.  During the same period, the Bicron registered 5320.
>I then repeated the 10 minute counts with the fusor turned off.  The 3He
>counter registered 0 counts while the Bicron showed 136.
>
>I'm still searching for definitive info on the expected efficiency of the
>3He counter for thermal neutrons but, from the 3He(n,p) cross-section
>alone, it looks like it should be nearly 100%.

The He3 counter must also have comparatively near zero cross section for
fast neutrons too, true?  Otherwise you should see some good part of the
5320 counts for the fast neutrons.

Also, what about the 3He(n,) reaction?  Won't that consume some of the
neutrons?  Very small cross section?

It also seems yhe He3 counter should count some recoil protons. Could be
that accounts for all 8 counts registered?

You could trade counter positions, just to be sure there is no hot spot,
though that is very very unlikely.


>
>Thus it does not look like my fusor is making any thermal neutrons.  Either
>that or my 3He counter is bad (it is brand new).


It would be nice to know what the specs are on it, what is expected in
performance.  Did you buy it?  If so, how much is such a counter?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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Subject: More on APS Monday . . .
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I was wondering around the APS again today, and I am footsore. Someone told
me there are more than 10,000 attendees! There were a couple of good
posters about CF. I want to clean up and present more of my notes from
Monday about the anti-CF portion of the conference. First, Scott Little asks:

	Did McKubre speak?

McKubre and the others will speak on Friday, March 26. Session ZC07. DCMP:
Palladium Electrochemistry. Friday afternoon, 14:00, Room 365W, GWCC

Here are the abstracts from Monday's anti-cold-fusion session:

	Session FB22 - Science, Junk Science, and Pseudoscience. Three 
	presentations:

	[FB22.01] Never Get in the Way of a Collapsing Wave Function

	Robert L. Park (Department of Physics, University of Maryland) 

	A best-selling health guru explains that his brand of spiritual healing
	is firmly grounded in quantum mechanics; power companies have invested
	millions in a device that generates energy by shrinking  hydrogen atoms
	into a state below the ground state; half the population believes Earth
	is being visited by space aliens who have  mastered faster-than-light
	travel; and chaos theory is offered as the basis of homeopathic remedies
	that are so dilute that not a single  molecule of the medicine remains.
	People are eager to believe that modern physics validates quack claims.
	Unfortunately, they are  encouraged in this belief by physicists who
	pander to the public's appetite for the weird. 

	[FB22.02] Shaping Public Ideas on Science: A View from the House

	Hon. Rush Holt (Member of Congress)  - Replaced by Zimmerman, with a
	bag on his head . . . I mean his chest! On his chest.

	This abstract not available. 

	[FB22.03] Things to fall down laughing about

	James Randi (James Randi Educational Foundation) 

	This abstract not available. 

Here are my notes. I am not going to quote the speakers extensively today
because Soo will transcribe portions which we will publish on Internet and
in the magazine. Please judge Zimmerman later by his own words.

Cold fusion was not the only subject discussed in this session. I think
Zimmerman devoted much of his time to it, but Park and Randi spoke mainly
about other things including psychokinesis, astrology, ESP, facilitated
learning, and magnet therapy to relieve pain. Randi discussed Beneviste in
detail, and he described a visit to Joe Newman, who seems to have a talent
for making a bad impression on people (including me). Most of the
discussions were devoted to outlandish fraud and ignorant scientific
mistakes made by superstitious people.

None of the speakers has contributed to the cold fusion literature. As far
as I could tell, none of them has read the peer reviewed experimental
literature. Hostility toward new ideas is inversely proportional to
knowledge. Zimmerman has read some articles in infinite energy magazine. He
showed a schematic from Correa, he briefly described the Mills theory, and
he said the Brown nuclear battery would require impossibly large amounts of
tritium if all of the energy comes from conventional nuclear reactions.
This is obvious, and it is why we ran the article in Infinite Energy.
Zimmerman did not say anything technical about conventional palladium cold
fusion. He glanced at a list of speakers from the canceled State Department
meeting and said that he has never heard of Storms and McKubre, which means
he has not read the literature. I asked Robert Park whether he has read
McKubre's papers, which I mailed him. He said no, why should I, it is the
same old thing, and none of it has been replicated. The fact that McKubre
is a replication of Pons and Fleischmann has not occurred to him. To him,
every cold fusion claim stands alone; none reinforces any other.

The speakers recognize no shades of grey, no spectrum of probability. As I
see it, the spectrum runs from zero probability (astrology) to 100% certain
(Newton's laws), with most things falling in the middle. ESP is so unlikely
I would not bother investigating it, but astounding as it might seem, there
is some clinical evidence that magnets may alleviate pain in post-polio
cases, so I would place low of the believability scale, but I hope someone
takes the trouble to investigate it. (See The New York Times SCIENCE,
December 9, 1997, "Study on Using Magnets to Treat Pain Surprises
Skeptics.") Randi asked one of the magnets healers why he thought the
therapy worked. The person replied that magnets might attract hemoglobin.
Randi ridiculed this hypothesis at length, and showed that a living body is
slightly repelled by a powerful magnet. It did not occur to him that a
hypothesis may be wrong, but the treatment might be effective anyway. Like
many skeptics, he confuses observations and hypotheses, and he rejects
observations when the person reporting them has no scientific training or
reasonable hypothesis. On this basis we would reject all knowledge from the
prescientific era. We would assume that our ancestors must have been
incapable of cooking or metallurgy because they no idea how combustion
works. It also did not occur to Randi that nerves work by transmitting
minute electric currents, which might conceivably be affected by mild
magnetic fields. He rejected a naive and obviously mistaken hypothesis, as
I would have, but he did not take the trouble to think for a moment to
discover another on his own.

After the meeting I suggested to Park that perhaps the Mills theory is
wrong but the technology may be valid, because it seems unlikely that power
companies would invest $10 million without first independently testing the
devices. He would hear none of this. He said the power companies have been
duped -- they never tested anything. He said "I know about that, I was
involved in it," evidently as a consultant. If Park was involved and yet
the power company engineers and executives went ahead with the investment
anyway, they must be very confident of their results. This is the best
endorsement of Mills I have heard.

The speakers and members of the audience expressed no skeptical self
doubts. They are more certain of everything than I am of anything. No one
said, for example, "scientists can make honest mistakes." Not one word was
uttered in defense of academic freedom. Instead, they said cold fusion is
fraud and it must be stamped out. Every mention of cold fusion was met with
gales of derisive laughter. One person told me Julian Schwinger was either
insane or senile at the end of his life. Apparently, this attitude is
pervasive throughout the APS. One the speakers said that a few years ago
the APS gave an award to Randi. The president was initially opposed to
giving the award to a magician, because he did not think science needed
someone like Randi to clean house, but when he presented the award he said
that Pons and Fleischmann convinced him that scientists are vulnerable and
they need Randi after all.

I did not expect a scientific presentation from James Randi, but I did go
to this meeting expecting to hear the professionals say something like:
"bad ideas in science range from outright fraud and quackery, to things
like cold fusion, which died quickly in 1989." Instead,  the clock was
turned back to the raucous meetings at MIT in 1989. The anger was palpable,
and the audience cheered as speakers lambasted cold fusion. Many people who
have worked on cold fusion and other unconventional energy were attacked.
The speakers seem to have it in for Hal Puthoff and Pons and Fleischmann in
particular. One participant said to me that Julian Schwinger must have been
insane or senile at the end of his life. (Schwinger quit the APS to protest
their treatment of cold fusion.) An older scientist told me he knew and
once respected Ed Storms, "but Ed knows nothing about measuring tritium." I
asked whether he thought Claytor and Srinivasan also know nothing, but he
turned away and would not answer. I expected some degree of academic
civility, but I saw none. I knew that Zimmerman canceled the meeting at
State. I expected he would say, "I felt this meeting was inappropriate for
the State Department and should be moved to the DOE or some other agency
involved with energy." Instead, he vowed to stop the meeting at any other
department. He said that he and Park would work to expose and purge anyone
at the patent office who sympathizes with cold fusion. "Bob Park will sink
his teeth into that one," as he put it.

These people are a threat to cold fusion. They will probably succeed in
rooting out the few remaining sources of funding, both government and
private. But let us not forget that cold fusion faces more potent enemies:
lack of time, the difficulty of the problem, and most of all, the
self-destructive behavior of some cold fusion researchers. They have
brought this calamity upon themselves, by not openly demonstrating their
cells and by alienating potential investors. Many researchers say the
effect is still unpredictable and nearly impossible to demonstrate on
demand. They are doing the best they can. Others, however, boast that they
have working cells, which means they are in a position to wave a magic wand
and make the Zimmermans of the world vanish overnight. If their claims are
true (which I doubt) and they will not help themselves, they will suffer
the consequences and cold fusion will wither away. I have no sympathy for
them, but only for the world at large.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 16:17:27 1999
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Scott Little wrote:

> I'm still searching for definitive info on the expected efficiency of the
> 3He counter for thermal neutrons but, from the 3He(n,p) cross-section
> alone, it looks like it should be nearly 100%.

Hi Scott,
Yes, it should be 100% percent. But yours is just getting background or less. Is
it the kind that is pressurized (10 atm) and runs at about 1000 volts?  I guess
the most likely problem could be loss of internal pressure, but the new ones
should be bulletproof. How much encased plastic is on the outside? thick vinyl
(pvc) could be a problem because of the high chlorine content (most DWV  pipe is
vinyl). Did you try it w/o the plastic?

Regard,
Jones

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 17:14:51 1999
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From: "Scudder, Henry J" <Henry.Scudder West.Boeing.com>
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Subject: RE: More on APS Monday . . .
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Jed
	Parks and Zimmerman and their ilk are dangerous religious fanatics,
and if they had lived in Roman times they would have tossed Christians to
the lions. If they lived in the time of the Spanish Inquisition, they would
have killed or converted all the Jews, etc. They KNOW what is RIGHT!. There
is very little hope of them ever listening to other opinions. It is too bad
they are in positions of power.

Hank

> ----------
> From: 	Jed Rothwell[SMTP:JedRothwell infinite-energy.com]
> Reply To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
> Sent: 	Wednesday, March 24, 1999 3:43 PM
> To: 	vortex-L eskimo.com
> Subject: 	More on APS Monday . . .
> 
> 
> I was wondering around the APS again today, and I am footsore. Someone
> told
> me there are more than 10,000 attendees! There were a couple of good
> posters about CF. I want to clean up and present more of my notes from
> Monday about the anti-CF portion of the conference. First, Scott Little
> asks:
> 
> 	Did McKubre speak?
> 
> McKubre and the others will speak on Friday, March 26. Session ZC07. DCMP:
> Palladium Electrochemistry. Friday afternoon, 14:00, Room 365W, GWCC
> 
> Here are the abstracts from Monday's anti-cold-fusion session:
> 
> 	Session FB22 - Science, Junk Science, and Pseudoscience. Three 
> 	presentations:
> 
> 	[FB22.01] Never Get in the Way of a Collapsing Wave Function
> 
> 	Robert L. Park (Department of Physics, University of Maryland) 
> 
> 	A best-selling health guru explains that his brand of spiritual
> healing
> 	is firmly grounded in quantum mechanics; power companies have
> invested
> 	millions in a device that generates energy by shrinking  hydrogen
> atoms
> 	into a state below the ground state; half the population believes
> Earth
> 	is being visited by space aliens who have  mastered
> faster-than-light
> 	travel; and chaos theory is offered as the basis of homeopathic
> remedies
> 	that are so dilute that not a single  molecule of the medicine
> remains.
> 	People are eager to believe that modern physics validates quack
> claims.
> 	Unfortunately, they are  encouraged in this belief by physicists who
> 	pander to the public's appetite for the weird. 
> 
> 	[FB22.02] Shaping Public Ideas on Science: A View from the House
> 
> 	Hon. Rush Holt (Member of Congress)  - Replaced by Zimmerman, with a
> 	bag on his head . . . I mean his chest! On his chest.
> 
> 	This abstract not available. 
> 
> 	[FB22.03] Things to fall down laughing about
> 
> 	James Randi (James Randi Educational Foundation) 
> 
> 	This abstract not available. 
> 
> Here are my notes. I am not going to quote the speakers extensively today
> because Soo will transcribe portions which we will publish on Internet and
> in the magazine. Please judge Zimmerman later by his own words.
> 
> Cold fusion was not the only subject discussed in this session. I think
> Zimmerman devoted much of his time to it, but Park and Randi spoke mainly
> about other things including psychokinesis, astrology, ESP, facilitated
> learning, and magnet therapy to relieve pain. Randi discussed Beneviste in
> detail, and he described a visit to Joe Newman, who seems to have a talent
> for making a bad impression on people (including me). Most of the
> discussions were devoted to outlandish fraud and ignorant scientific
> mistakes made by superstitious people.
> 
> None of the speakers has contributed to the cold fusion literature. As far
> as I could tell, none of them has read the peer reviewed experimental
> literature. Hostility toward new ideas is inversely proportional to
> knowledge. Zimmerman has read some articles in infinite energy magazine.
> He
> showed a schematic from Correa, he briefly described the Mills theory, and
> he said the Brown nuclear battery would require impossibly large amounts
> of
> tritium if all of the energy comes from conventional nuclear reactions.
> This is obvious, and it is why we ran the article in Infinite Energy.
> Zimmerman did not say anything technical about conventional palladium cold
> fusion. He glanced at a list of speakers from the canceled State
> Department
> meeting and said that he has never heard of Storms and McKubre, which
> means
> he has not read the literature. I asked Robert Park whether he has read
> McKubre's papers, which I mailed him. He said no, why should I, it is the
> same old thing, and none of it has been replicated. The fact that McKubre
> is a replication of Pons and Fleischmann has not occurred to him. To him,
> every cold fusion claim stands alone; none reinforces any other.
> 
> The speakers recognize no shades of grey, no spectrum of probability. As I
> see it, the spectrum runs from zero probability (astrology) to 100%
> certain
> (Newton's laws), with most things falling in the middle. ESP is so
> unlikely
> I would not bother investigating it, but astounding as it might seem,
> there
> is some clinical evidence that magnets may alleviate pain in post-polio
> cases, so I would place low of the believability scale, but I hope someone
> takes the trouble to investigate it. (See The New York Times SCIENCE,
> December 9, 1997, "Study on Using Magnets to Treat Pain Surprises
> Skeptics.") Randi asked one of the magnets healers why he thought the
> therapy worked. The person replied that magnets might attract hemoglobin.
> Randi ridiculed this hypothesis at length, and showed that a living body
> is
> slightly repelled by a powerful magnet. It did not occur to him that a
> hypothesis may be wrong, but the treatment might be effective anyway. Like
> many skeptics, he confuses observations and hypotheses, and he rejects
> observations when the person reporting them has no scientific training or
> reasonable hypothesis. On this basis we would reject all knowledge from
> the
> prescientific era. We would assume that our ancestors must have been
> incapable of cooking or metallurgy because they no idea how combustion
> works. It also did not occur to Randi that nerves work by transmitting
> minute electric currents, which might conceivably be affected by mild
> magnetic fields. He rejected a naive and obviously mistaken hypothesis, as
> I would have, but he did not take the trouble to think for a moment to
> discover another on his own.
> 
> After the meeting I suggested to Park that perhaps the Mills theory is
> wrong but the technology may be valid, because it seems unlikely that
> power
> companies would invest $10 million without first independently testing the
> devices. He would hear none of this. He said the power companies have been
> duped -- they never tested anything. He said "I know about that, I was
> involved in it," evidently as a consultant. If Park was involved and yet
> the power company engineers and executives went ahead with the investment
> anyway, they must be very confident of their results. This is the best
> endorsement of Mills I have heard.
> 
> The speakers and members of the audience expressed no skeptical self
> doubts. They are more certain of everything than I am of anything. No one
> said, for example, "scientists can make honest mistakes." Not one word was
> uttered in defense of academic freedom. Instead, they said cold fusion is
> fraud and it must be stamped out. Every mention of cold fusion was met
> with
> gales of derisive laughter. One person told me Julian Schwinger was either
> insane or senile at the end of his life. Apparently, this attitude is
> pervasive throughout the APS. One the speakers said that a few years ago
> the APS gave an award to Randi. The president was initially opposed to
> giving the award to a magician, because he did not think science needed
> someone like Randi to clean house, but when he presented the award he said
> that Pons and Fleischmann convinced him that scientists are vulnerable and
> they need Randi after all.
> 
> I did not expect a scientific presentation from James Randi, but I did go
> to this meeting expecting to hear the professionals say something like:
> "bad ideas in science range from outright fraud and quackery, to things
> like cold fusion, which died quickly in 1989." Instead,  the clock was
> turned back to the raucous meetings at MIT in 1989. The anger was
> palpable,
> and the audience cheered as speakers lambasted cold fusion. Many people
> who
> have worked on cold fusion and other unconventional energy were attacked.
> The speakers seem to have it in for Hal Puthoff and Pons and Fleischmann
> in
> particular. One participant said to me that Julian Schwinger must have
> been
> insane or senile at the end of his life. (Schwinger quit the APS to
> protest
> their treatment of cold fusion.) An older scientist told me he knew and
> once respected Ed Storms, "but Ed knows nothing about measuring tritium."
> I
> asked whether he thought Claytor and Srinivasan also know nothing, but he
> turned away and would not answer. I expected some degree of academic
> civility, but I saw none. I knew that Zimmerman canceled the meeting at
> State. I expected he would say, "I felt this meeting was inappropriate for
> the State Department and should be moved to the DOE or some other agency
> involved with energy." Instead, he vowed to stop the meeting at any other
> department. He said that he and Park would work to expose and purge anyone
> at the patent office who sympathizes with cold fusion. "Bob Park will sink
> his teeth into that one," as he put it.
> 
> These people are a threat to cold fusion. They will probably succeed in
> rooting out the few remaining sources of funding, both government and
> private. But let us not forget that cold fusion faces more potent enemies:
> lack of time, the difficulty of the problem, and most of all, the
> self-destructive behavior of some cold fusion researchers. They have
> brought this calamity upon themselves, by not openly demonstrating their
> cells and by alienating potential investors. Many researchers say the
> effect is still unpredictable and nearly impossible to demonstrate on
> demand. They are doing the best they can. Others, however, boast that they
> have working cells, which means they are in a position to wave a magic
> wand
> and make the Zimmermans of the world vanish overnight. If their claims are
> true (which I doubt) and they will not help themselves, they will suffer
> the consequences and cold fusion will wither away. I have no sympathy for
> them, but only for the world at large.
> 
> - Jed
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 17:30:08 1999
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:38:04 -0900
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: H2 w/K glow discharge
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At 5:15 PM 3/24/99, VCockeram aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 03/24/1999 07:02:49 Pacific Standard Time, Tstolper AOL.COM
>writes:
>
>> Thanks for the offer of the JPEG images.  My browser is AOL v3.01 for the
>Mac.
>>
>>  How does it handle JPEG images (I've only used it for GIFs so far)?
>>
>>  Tom Stolper
>
>You got me Tom.  If the Mac wont handle jpg files see if you have a photo
>program that will convert them (Paint Shop Pro?)
>I'd have thought the AOL viewer would open both gif and jpg files.

Tom,

If you are still running on on old Plus or something similar I probably
can't help.  However, if you have a bigger system you might try
Graffikkonverter.  It is very general and is shareware.  I can send you a
copy if you like, or you can download from the web.

AOL might handle JPEGS anyway.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 18:51:44 1999
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Subject: RE: More on APS Monday . . .
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 99 21:44:46 -0000
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From: "E.F. Mallove" <editor infinite-energy.com>
To: "VORTEX" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
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Hank,

>Jed
>	Parks and Zimmerman and their ilk are dangerous religious fanatics,

No, they are War Criminals. They have already, in effect, killed millions 
of people by the unconscionable time delay they have helped introduce 
into the development and understanding of CF technology. This is not 
"Murder One," it is gross, negligent homicide.

>and if they had lived in Roman times they would have tossed Christians to
>the lions. If they lived in the time of the Spanish Inquisition, they would
>have killed or converted all the Jews, etc.

As I said, they have killed already.

> They KNOW what is RIGHT!. There
>is very little hope of them ever listening to other opinions. 

There is NO hope of them listening, but there is every hope of us 
destroying them with Truth, as we intend to do.

>It is too bad
>they are in positions of power.

Not for long.
>
>Hank

Gene Mallove

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 24 21:49:31 1999
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 23:48:41 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: thermal neutrons
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At 02:54 PM 3/24/99 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote:

>The He3 counter must also have comparatively near zero cross section for
>fast neutrons too, true?

Actually, I measured its efficiency for the fast neuts from an Am-Be source
and got 44 ppm.  Unfortunately that was before I got my Bicron plastic
scintillator so I don't have a direct experimental comparison but the
Bicron's advertised efficiency is 6000 ppm (i.e. 0.6%).  That's a factor of
136.  That means the 3He should have counted 39 counts...but I only got
8....5 times fewer.  Maybe that difference could be due to geometry and the
lack of an empirically determined comparison.

>Also, what about the 3He(n,) reaction?  Won't that consume some of the
>neutrons?  Very small cross section?

what reaction?

>It also seems yhe He3 counter should count some recoil protons. Could be
>that accounts for all 8 counts registered?

They won't penetrate the counter's walls...they'd have to be generated
inside the counter.

>You could trade counter positions, just to be sure there is no hot spot,
>though that is very very unlikely.

good idea....but I won't get to it anytime soon.  

>It would be nice to know what the specs are on it, what is expected in
>performance.  Did you buy it?  If so, how much is such a counter?

Dennis Letts bought it.  I'll bet it was around $1000.

Jones wrote:

>Is
>it the kind that is pressurized (10 atm) and runs at about 1000 volts?

It's 4 atm of 3He in a 1" dia, 11" long tube.

>How much encased plastic is on the outside?

none...it's bare stainless steel.

>Did you try it w/o the plastic?

I did try crowding some polyethylene around behind the counter in an effort
to produce some thermal neutrons for it to count...but the count was
insignificantly different:  9 counts in 10 minutes. 


Scott Little 
EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 00:00:37 1999
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 23:08:48 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: thermal neutrons
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At 5:01 PM 3/24/99, Scott Little wrote:
[snip]
>I'm still searching for definitive info on the expected efficiency of the
>3He counter for thermal neutrons but, from the 3He(n,p) cross-section
>alone, it looks like it should be nearly 100%.


>At 02:54 PM 3/24/99 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote:
[snip]
>>Also, what about the 3He(n,) reaction?  Won't that consume some of the
>>neutrons?  Very small cross section?
>
>what reaction?


   3He -(n,)-> 4He

as opposed to your stated reaction

   3He -(n,p)-> 3H


There must be some kind of branching ratio.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 00:10:08 1999
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From: VCockeram aol.com
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Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 03:01:58 EST
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In a message dated 03/24/1999 14:48:45 Pacific Standard Time, little eden.com
writes:

>>>I could use a standard watt-
>>>hour meter. I have catalogs listing them.

>  
>  I think you should get an old residential watthour meter, Vince.  They're
>  wonderfully accurate machines with tons of reliability engineering behind
>  them.
>  Herbach and Rademan (1-800-848-8001) sells one for $29.50:
>  "4 DIAL 120 VAC - Westinghouse or equal type CS single phase 2 wire. Rated
>  120VAC 60Hz 15 amps.

 Calling them tomorrow. I need accurate power input readings.
 I just finished up calibration runs using the combination of digital 
voltmeter and analog ammeter and it was sloppy. I will post the data 
here but only because I said I would post all data, good and bad, and 
this data is bad, because it's very subjective getting a good reading off 
of a crummy analog ammeter. ( was using the cheapo meter on the 
power supply I built using only the variac and the meter ($15 meter)) 
 The watt-hour meter will solve that (I think I can handle a stopwatch <G>) 
 I assume the meter is not accurate at less than 120 volts, true? 
 I wanted to measure input _after_ the variac at input to the HVPS.  
like this:

--->-120v line in--->-Variac--->-Wattmeter--->-HVPS--->-TUBE  

or will it have to be like this:
--->-120v line in--->-Wattmeter--->-Variac--->HVPS--->-TUBE

 I think I worked out the efficiency of the HVPS , 250 VA input, 10kV, 
23 ma output, which is 92%, or 8% loss in it. Does that sound right?  
 But I haven't a clue as to what the variac might be, especially at lower 
voltages.  Ideas anyone?


 I made 3 calibration runs, one at full vacuum, one in H2 at 15 in Hg 
gauge indication and the last, H2 at atmospheric pressure ( zero on 
the vacuum gauge). Collating the data now.
 I'll try to get it posted tomorrow.
 Having fun again.

 Regards,
 Vince Cockeram
 Las Vegas Nevada
 702-254-2122

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 03:47:57 1999
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From: "Frederick J Sparber" <fjsparb sprintmail.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re; O/U Toilet Bowl Cleaner?
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 04:40:50 -0700
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To: Vortex

Potassium Hydrogen Sulfate, KHSO4 or the cheaper Sodium Hydrogen Sulfate
NaHSO4 (used as a toilet bowl cleaner)made by heating KCl or NaCl with
sulfuric acid,H2SO4:

KCl or NaCl + H2SO4 ---> HCl + KHSO4 or NaHSO4

 should do okay as an aqueous electrolyte for O/U experiments.

This gives the H+ and K+ Cations in equal number as well as the SO4-- Anion.

Electrolysis of aqueous KHSO4 might make The "Hydrino" (or equivalent)with
an O/U energy release, especially if pressurized/mixed with air so that a
reasonable number of atmospheric neutrinos can catalyze the O/U reaction.

Electrolyze will also liberate about 8 Protons per Deuteron at the Cathode,
thus increasing the Deuteron concentration there.

WITH SAFETY DISCLAIMER!

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 03:58:21 1999
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From: Tstolper aol.com
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Jed,

Recent word here on Vortex-L was that you'd heard Park attack Mills.  No
details.  Do you recall why Park attacked Mills and what Park said about him?

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 03:58:25 1999
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In my post Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:32:53 EST, I wrote:

"As for the attempt to replicate the gas-phase cell, Scott put his potassium
catalyst in a stainless-steel cylinder with a small opening set off to one
side of the filament.  I wonder if any K+ ions at all were produced from that
setup.  If they were, they wouldn't have stayed ions long enough to get to the
dissociated neutral H atoms near the filament, as I think Fred Sparber may
have mentioned.  Mills used a ceramic boat directly under the hot filament."

In his post Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:04:42 -0600, Scott replied that he
hadn't started out that way.  In his first run, when the K catalyst was in a
shallow pan in a wire basket right under the hot [brake-light?] filament,
Scott found that all the K catalyst had evaporated, so he decided to move the
K catalyst to a cooler location.

Well, Scott, you succeeded in that.  According to your report on the 20-hour
run with a platinum filament <http://www.eden.com/~little/blp/run13.html> 

"Upon disassembly of the chamber we found that the catalyst vial weighs 
maybe 0.01 grams less than it did before the run (our balance has 0.01g 
resolution). Since the KNO2 is visibly moist, this could easily be water 
loss. Thus, we continue to observe little or no catalyst consumption, 
even at a catalyst temp of 300° C."

It looks to me as if few or no K+ ions got out of that stainless steel
cylinder, and if they did, they didn't stay K+ ions long enough to get to the
region around the hot filament where the dissociated neutral H atoms were most
likely to be.

You concluded this report by claiming that in this run, you had conditions in
the chamber similar to those reported by BLP.  I don't think that the folks at
BLP would agree.  I don't see any reason to believe that the essential
condition, i.e., a region where lots of K+ ions are in contact with lots of
dissociated neutral H atoms, was present in this run.

But to end on a more positive note, you do know how to put a good report up on
a website.  The report on Run 13 was easy to read and so was the accompanying
photo.

Tom Stolper



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 04:00:41 1999
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In message Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:36:02 EST, Bob Briggs <BriggsRO aol.com>
wrote

"I read in a prospectus a couple years ago that Mills had developed and
commercialized a medical imaging system.  I also remember a couple of other
businesses he strted but I don't remember much about them.  If it is
interesting, I'll go back to my file and find it."

I'd be interested in seeing the prospectus that mentioned development and
commercialization of a medical imaging system.  I'd also be interested in what
you have in your file about those other businesses.

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 04:08:18 1999
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Dear Tom,
Take a look on Bob Park's "What's New" at the AIP site-(the correct name is
"What's New I Hate") and you will find that he has treated BLP exactly as CF.
Park is a bravo-- a paid killer of what's really new.
Peter

----------
From: 	Tstolper aol.com
Sent: 	25 March 1999 13:55 PM
To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: 	Re:  News from the APS meeting

Jed,

Recent word here on Vortex-L was that you'd heard Park attack Mills.  No
details.  Do you recall why Park attacked Mills and what Park said about him?

Tom Stolper



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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 06:06:20 1999
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At 03:01 3/25/99 EST, VCockeram aol.com wrote:

> I assume the meter is not accurate at less than 120 volts, true? 

Never tried it.  Will do today and report back.



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 07:18:56 1999
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I compared the performance of our Westinghouse CS type watthour meter ($30)
to that of our Clarke-Hess 2330 Wide Bandwith Power Analyzer ($3600) at
various voltages with a resistive load.

Circuit:
120VAC---->VARIAC----->Watthourmeter---->Clarke-Hess------>HotPlate

Results:
voltage    Clarke-Hess    Westinghouse     ratio
109           900            908           1.009
89.7          610            617           1.011
65.1          319            319           1.000
47.3          169            168           0.994
30.3          69.9           66.7          0.954
20.3          31.7           27.3          0.861

At the last power level, the wheel was turning so slowly that it took 132
seconds to complete 1 revolution.  I've seen the watthour meter read low
before at very low power levels so I switched to a lower resistance load
for one more data point:

21.0          105            105.7         1.007

Looks like the watthour meter doesn't care what voltage is across it...it
just likes the power to be up around 100 watts or more.  This is possibly
an inherent problem with this device due to the finite friction in the
wheel's lower bearing, which is a physical contact.  I believe the upper
bearing is a magnetic suspension.

If you need to run at <100 watts, I suppose you could develop a calibration
curve (using resistive loads where you can measure the power accurately
with ordinary V and I meters) and then correct the readings obtained during
actual experimentation.

BTW, I've tested this watthour meter with a lamp dimmer before it, which
produces a chopped-off AC waveform.  It handled that just perfectly.  I've
also used it to monitor the power being consumed by switching power
supplies, which draw current in surges during the voltage peaks and it also
handled that just fine.



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 07:24:47 1999
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Scott Little wrote:

> I did try crowding some polyethylene around behind the counter in an effort
> to produce some thermal neutrons for it to count...but the count was
> insignificantly different:  9 counts in 10 minutes.

Conclusion: As they say in down there in Tejas, no funcionaro!

Hope it came with a warranty... Still looking for a BF3 counter.

Regards,
Jones




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 07:50:06 1999
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Subject: Re: News from the APS meeting
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Henry Scudder writes:

	There is very little hope of [Park and Zimmerman] ever listening
	to other opinions. It is too bad they are in positions of power.

There is absolutely no hope they will listen. You can literally shove a
paper by McKubre into their hands, but they will not read it. They brag to
me that they will not read it! It is a shame they are in a position of
power, but in a sense it does not matter. If it wasn't them it would be
someone else just as bad. Everyone in the establishment despises cold
fusion, including the president of the APS and editors at Nature and
Scientific American. The anger is still raw, as if the announcement had
been made last week, instead of ten years ago. 

Gene Mallove writes:

	. . . they are War Criminals. They have already, in effect,
	killed millions  of people by the unconscionable time delay they
	have helped introduce  into the development and understanding of
	CF technology.

Yes but do not forget that they could not have done it without the
cooperation of the cold fusion scientists. Jim Reding at CETI told me that
he welcomes this kind of attack because it squelches potential competitors.
It starves other researchers and leaves the entire field of cold fusion to
him. Other researchers have echoed this point of view. It's a good thing
Pasteur and Lister did not feel this way as they developed the germ theory
and antiseptics. Mills hates cold fusion although he acknowledges that the
experiments of Pons and Fleischmann prompted him to work with hydrides. No
doubt he is delighted to see the field is moribund. Paulo Correa, Mitchell
Swartz and many others have claimed they have high-power cells that work on
demand or nearly on demand. If they would demonstrate these devices and
sell development kits, they would instantly silence people like Zimmerman,
and they would the inundated with development capital. Instead, they choose
to keep their research secret while they complain about the opposition, so
this tragic fiasco is as much their fault as Zimmerman's. At least
Zimmerman has the excuse that he is ignorant, and he is only going along
with 99.99% of other mainstream scientists.


	>It is too bad
	>they are in positions of power.

	Not for long.

Certainly for long. I have no doubt that Zimmerman and Park will succeed
unless the cold fusion scientists take action to rescue themselves. Their
fate is in their own hands, they could put a stop to this nonsense TODAY,
this instant. If they choose to do nothing they must accept responsibility
for the consequences. In a way, this situation reminds me of the gruesome
attacks against black communities in the deep South and the European Jewish
ghettos. I do not to like to blame the victim, but to some extent, I agree
with the militant historians who say that armed resistance would have
reduced the severity of these pogroms. In the late 19th-century and up
until the Great Depression, many large-scale attacks occurred in Georgia,
Florida and elsewhere in the deep South. They are not well documented in
the history books, but in some cases entire towns were burned down, and
communities, businesses and life savings wiped out. Hundreds of people were
driven away, and dozens of people were killed and buried in hidden mass
graves. Recently the New York Times said that the government of Arkansas (I
think it was) has hired forensic anthropologists to search for one of these
graves, which is said to hold more than a hundred anonymous victims. Here
in Atlanta, in the years before the First World War there were recurrent
outbreaks of violence. Mobs rampaged, targeting black businesses and
neighborhoods. Local police, state and federal authorities ignored pleas
for help. The violence was finally put down when groups of armed black
militants came from northern cities and began shooting back. There is an
inconspicuous exhibit about this Atlanta Historical Society, which is
mostly dedicated to celebrating "Gone With the Wind" mythology. I think
this history teaches us that oppressed people must take action to save
themselves.

Tom Stolper asks:

	Recent word here on Vortex-L was that you'd heard Park attack
	Mills.  No details.  Do you recall why Park attacked Mills and
	what Park said about him?

We will transcribe his words and report them exactly. I would do it now,
but I'm trying to cut back on typing to avoid repetitive stress syndrome.
(This message is coming to you via NaturallySpeaking.) Park and Zimmerman
both attacked Mills, but they did not say anything awful about him. They
briefly described his suborbital electron theory, which most scientists
find ridiculous.  Nearly all cold fusion scientists I know think it is
preposterous.

Mills invites and deserves this kind of ridicule by keeping his excess
energy devices secret. Perhaps, like Reding, he considers this a good
business strategy. If it succeeds I suppose I will be forced to agree, but
I think there is zero chance of that. Certainly this strategy failed
miserably at CETI, just as I warned Reding it would. CETI can no longer
afford to do excess energy experiments. I feel like Cassandra. I warned
Reding to pay attention to history, and to introductory business textbooks
and common sense, but he blundered ahead. He wasted hundreds of thousands
of dollars and squandered every opportunity. I warned the Japanese NEDO
program managers that they should read the papers by their own experts in
the Japanese Journal of Applied Physics, and papers by Storms, and they
should use the palladium recommended by Fleischmann instead of trying to
develop it on their own. Of course I wasn't the only person making these
recommendations! They ignored this advice, blundered on, and pissed away
millions of dollars of the Japanese taxpayer's money. With friends like
this we do not need enemies.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 09:27:43 1999
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Dear Jed,

I was taught to evaluate scientific claims using logic and objectivity. 
But then, I’m only a chemist.  Apparently, physicists have changed the
rules.  I would hope that people who are in physics and who share my old
fashion methods would object to the way their colleagues behave.  But
then, I’m also naive and idealist.  Not a good combination in the world
of science these days.

Ed. Storms

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 10:21:06 1999
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From: VCockeram aol.com
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In a message dated 03/25/1999 07:13:36 Pacific Standard Time, little eden.com
writes:
> I compared the performance of our Westinghouse CS type watthour meter ($30)
>  to that of our Clarke-Hess 2330 Wide Bandwith Power Analyzer ($3600) at
>  various voltages with a resistive load.
>  Circuit:
>  120VAC---->VARIAC----->Watthourmeter---->Clarke-Hess------>HotPlate
>  Results:
>  voltage    Clarke-Hess    Westinghouse     ratio
>  109           900            908           1.009
>  89.7          610            617           1.011
>  65.1          319            319           1.000
>  47.3          169            168           0.994
>  30.3          69.9           66.7          0.954
>  20.3          31.7           27.3          0.861
>  At the last power level, the wheel was turning so slowly that it took 132
>  seconds to complete 1 revolution.  I've seen the watthour meter read low
>  before at very low power levels so I switched to a lower resistance load
>  for one more data point:
>  21.0          105            105.7         1.007
>  Looks like the watthour meter doesn't care what voltage is across it...it
>  just likes the power to be up around 100 watts or more.  This is possibly
>  an inherent problem with this device due to the finite friction in the
>  wheel's lower bearing, which is a physical contact.  I believe the upper
>  bearing is a magnetic suspension.
>  If you need to run at <100 watts, I suppose you could develop a calibration
>  curve (using resistive loads where you can measure the power accurately
>  with ordinary V and I meters) and then correct the readings obtained during
>  actual experimentation.
  <<snip>>
>  Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little

Thanks very much for the info Scott, I have ordered the meter. Will be
delivered Monday.

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada
702-254-2122

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 10:22:19 1999
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Dear Jed,

I share your frustration with and objection to the behaviors of certain
members of the cold fusion community.  To change this situation, as you
suggest, requires a plan.  In this case, we are limited by several
realities.  First, it is impossible to reach most scientists with
correct information without cooperation of the popular Media or the
scientific journals.  Both have shown a reluctance to spread the word. 
Robert Park is read by thousands of physicists while I doubt over 100
read Infinite Energy. Second, individuals who find a method to produce
the effect will naturally want to maximize their profit, even at the
expense of their colleagues.  Until the patent office becomes competent,
secrecy is the only protection a person has.  While. I agree, this
approach can be counter productive, your approach of open disclosure has
also been found wanting.  Third, the movers and shakers in the
scientific and political establishment are too influenced by big
programs and industries, which would be harmed by the claims, to change
their tune. 

The only hope is to use private money supplied by people whose judgement
is not clouded and who have the courage to invest now rather than
waiting.  As you know such people exist and are helping.  I suggest that
our efforts should be directed more toward such people rather than
trying to educate scientists in general.  We now know what mistakes not
to make and we know much of what needs to be known.  I suggest we put
this insight in a form which is easy to understand and make a case to
people who can afford to sponsor some general, exploratory research
now.  Ironically, if this effort were successful, the results of the
research would have to be secret until commercial development was
underway  Such is life these days.  Lacking this approach, I believe
only time, a long time, will be our savior.

Ed Storms

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 10:26:17 1999
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At 11:27 AM 3/25/99, Edmund Storms wrote:
>Dear Jed,
>
>I was taught to evaluate scientific claims using logic and objectivity.
>But then, I’m only a chemist.  Apparently, physicists have changed the
>rules.  I would hope that people who are in physics and who share my old
>fashion methods would object to the way their colleagues behave.  But
>then, I’m also naive and idealist.  Not a good combination in the world
>of science these days.
>
>Ed. Storms


It is a somewhat fightening prospect, but there are signs that the
Nazi-like group-think phenomenon is endemic to many US higher education
institutions.  The phenomenon is definitiely not limited to physicists.
Witness the expulsion of the LENR conference from TAMU, not by just one
adminstrator, but by unanimous vote of a large committee in the Chemistry
Department.  This style repression of academic freedom, in addition to the
existing long term favoring of big science over little science, is a
formula which could drive the more innovative research out of the US, and
certainly CF research in particular.  Something similar happened before, to
US benefit, in Germany.

If higher education is manufacturing Gestapo like robots, systematically
weeding out innovative free thinkers, it is (was?) only a matter of time
before they fill leadership roles in both private industry and government.

Hopefully success in the CF field will eventually serve as a force to
reverse this pendulum swing.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 11:31:08 1999
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Ed Storms writes:

	I was taught to evaluate scientific claims using logic and
	objectivity.  But then, I'm only a chemist.

I should point out that George Miley's lecture and his poster session
attracted many interested and friendly physicists. There is a reservoir of
good will out there, waiting to be tapped.


	I share your frustration with and objection to the behaviors of
	certain members of the cold fusion community.  To change this
	situation, as you suggest, requires a plan.  In this case, we
	are limited by several realities.  First, it is impossible to
	reach most scientists with correct information without
	cooperation of the popular Media or the scientific journals.

I think history shows that we do not need to reach most scientists. A few
thousand would do. If I had 200 demonstration kits I could convince the
whole world in  a few months. We are limited by realities, but we could
easily overcome these limitations and win with what we have in hand. People
in the past who championed unpopular ideas often had less money and
influence than we do, yet they managed to convince the world they were right.


	Second, individuals who find a method to produce the effect will
	naturally want to maximize their profit, even at the expense of
	their colleagues.  Until the patent office becomes competent,
	secrecy is the only protection a person has.

Secrecy and patents are seldom of any use in a rapidly changing technology.
Bill Gates, my grandfather, I and many others have made a good living by
inventing and improving technology without ever getting a patent. Secrecy
vanishes when you ship the product and the competition reverse engineers
it. The moment you sell the first flint axe, automobile, or cold fusion
cell, you put it in the public domain and many people scramble to copy you.
That cannot be avoided. It is a fact of life that every businessman has
lived with since the invention of commerce. Intel processors are patented
and extremely difficult to reproduce, yet there are two companies now
selling functionally equivalent devices. The way to get ahead and stay
ahead in a new high-tech industry is to innovate constantly, hire the best
people, treat your customers with as much care as you can lavished on them,
keep running, and do not become mesmerized by the competition. As "Satchel"
Paige said, "don't look back, something may be gaining on you."

In any case, our troubles with a patent office will end abruptly as soon as
we convince the world cold fusion is real.


	While I agree, this approach can be counter productive, your
	approach of open disclosure has also been found wanting.

My approach has not been tested with cold fusion. It has worked with every
other industry since the store age. Always, in every case, people make
money by selling things to other people. Every venture has bootstrapped
itself up from nothing by selling, selling and selling. We do not need
venture capital or government grants, we can have all the money we want --
millions and millions! -- by selling what we have today. It worked for
Henry Ford and Apple Computer and it will work for us. I could sell a
hundred thousand demonstration kits even if they did nothing more than
generate a watt or two. They can be as impractical as the first
microcomputer kits were in 1975; it will make no difference to the first
batch of customers.


	The only hope is to use private money supplied by people whose
	judgement is not clouded and who have the courage to invest now
	rather than waiting.  As you know such people exist and are
	helping.

They exist, and they are waiting, and when we get demonstration kits they
will put millions of dollars into the field immediately.


	I suggest that our efforts should be directed more toward such
	people rather than trying to educate scientists in general.

Quite right. But we do not need to educate them, we only need to
demonstrate the effect to them, and give them a cell to play around with.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 11:33:10 1999
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Subject: Re: H2 w/K glow discharge
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Scott Little's data comparing the Clarke-Hess meter to the $30 wattmeter is
surprising. I had no idea those things were so accurate.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 14:04:08 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: thermal neutrons
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:56:15 GMT
Organization: Improving
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On Wed, 24 Mar 1999 23:08:48 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote:
[snip]
>   3He -(n,)-> 4He

This is know as radiative capture (the energy from the reaction is later
radiated as a gamma-ray):

The radiative capture cross section for He3 is 54.01 *micro* barns for
thermal neutrons, and less for 14 MeV neutrons.
In contrast the cross section for the reaction:

He3(n,p)T is 5328 *barns* for thermal neutrons and
139.7 milli barns for 14 MeV neutrons.
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 14:22:56 1999
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Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:28:06 +0100
From: Jean-Paul Biberian <biberian mccir3.crmc2.univ-mrs.fr>
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Subject: Re: News from the APS meeting: mixed feelings
References: <3.0.1.32.19990325142642.007a05d0 pop.mindspring.com>
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After reading what has been said at the APS meeting regarding Cold Fusion, I felt
very bad, angry, sorry and powerless.

It is not so much what Zimmerman said that shocked me, after all he is performing
his job of killing Cold Fusion alltogether. It is the response of the audience.

Here are seating a number of scientists, which primer goal is to discover new
phenomena through experiments, and try to give a suitable explanation to them.
Instead, without any insight of what is going on, they applaude the person who
says: "congratulation you guys here you cannot make mistakes since you do not
take risks! keep on trucking and you will be rewarded!" That is what makes me
feel so much sorrow. MD's have the duty to help out any patient with or without
money. I feel scientists have the obligation to search the truth in unchartered
territories. Not on the rest areas of the freeways.

Once I asked one of my cousins who is an active Catholic: "I you had been living
then, would you have recognized Christ when he was on earth?" To my amazement she
honnestly reponded NO!

Same thing is happening in science. This is the one question I would ask any foe
of Cold Fusion for the matter: "Would you have supported Gallileo, Einstein,
Marie Curie, and so many others?".

I congratulate all those who for some hidden agenda do not want Cold Fusion, and
wish to destroy it. They try to do their job as well as they can. They have tried
the soft way, and ignored it for 10 years, but the thing survived. Now they have
to switch to more brutal ways. But I cannot accept that a scientist has lost his
ethics, and is not curious about the experimental facts.

One last comment. It is very interesting that the pannel included a magician.
Because, what is his role, why did they bring him up? Well I believe that either
they say there is no experimental evidence, and then you don't need a magician,
since there is nothing to disprove, or if you need one, this is because there are
experimental evidences and that the only other options being: it is real or it is
a fraud. Since there is a magician, we are in the second category.

Jed, your problem is solved, there is evidence, they want to show it is fraud!

Jean-Paul Biberian

quote: men say time is passing by, time says men are passing by!

There is hope

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 16:48:33 1999
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Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:36:32 -0500 (EST)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
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	For the record:

	My name is Schnurer.  John Herman Schnurer.  Eugene's name is 
Dr. Eugene Podkletnov.

				Thanks,

			JHS

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 20:38:42 1999
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Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:27:06 -0700
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Subject: Aspartame: Methanol Toxicity 3.25.99
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March 25, 1999   Aspartame: Methanol Toxicity

Rich Murray, MA

I am writing this summary  to clarify the complex and bitter aspartame
(NutraSweet, Equal, Canderel, Benevia) toxicity debate.

An M.I.T. (physics and history, BA, 1964) and Boston U. Graduate
School (psychology, MA, 1967) graduate, I,  a concerned layman,
want to facilitate civil debate on this public health issue.

In the USA alone, well over  a 100 million use this product of a
billion-dollar industry, first approved by the FDA in 1981.  In 1985,
Monsanto purchased G.D. Searle, and made Searle Pharmaceuticals and The
NutraSweet Company separate subsidiaries.  Coca-Cola, Pepsi Cola, and
many other products, cake mixes, jellos, puddings, chewing
gums, candies, and even vitamins and medicines, offer aspartame to the
world.

If 1%  of users have a problem with aspartame,  that is a million.  I
haven't yet found even elementary data about how prevalent negative
reactions to aspartame are, but there are enough to generate
vociferous complaints from thousands of people to the FDA
since 1981, and in recent years on the Internet.

"March 10, 1999
The EU Directive 96/83/EC of the European Parliament and of the
European Council  of 19 December 1996 is an amendmenet to the Directive
94/35/EC on sweeteners for use in foodstuffs.  There is an Article 2(a)
Paragraph 3,  which is of interest to us. It says: "Sweeteners may not
be used in food for infants and young children as referred to in
Directive 89/398/EEC, including food for infants and young children who
are not in good health..."  This was published in the Official Journal
of
the European Communities in February 1997 and then the news
(a brief summary) was published in a EU information newsletter.
Sincerely,  Martin Jonas Frid,  Osby, Sweden    mjfrid hotmail.com"

This applies to infants and children between one and  three years.
It is reasonable to surmise that this ban is aimed at aspartame, since
it is by far the most controversial sweetener since 1981.  However,
perhaps due to the age covered, "diet cola" is not included. If
aspartame is not safe for young kids, then how can it be safe for
pregnant women, senior citizens, the mentally ill, or, indeed, anyone?
I hope to find
what reports this ban was based on, two years ago.

I am grateful to Ralph G. Walton, M.D., for promptly mailing me four of
his papers, some 76 pages, which make it easy to sketch the main
outlines of the case.

Prof. of Clinical Psychology, Northeastern Ohio Universities,
College of Medicine, Dept. of Psychiatry, Youngstown, OH 44501, and
Chairman, The Center for Behavioral Medicine, Northside Medical Center,
500 Gypsy Lane,  P.O. Box 240 Youngstown, OH 44501  330-740-3621
rwalton193 aol.com

"Seizure and mania after high intake of aspartame," 1986,
Psychosomatics, 27: 218-20:

An age 54 woman with 20 years of depression had been stable for 11
years with medication.  She had a grand mal seizure, followed by mania,
insomnia, flight of ideas, and irritability.  A brief hospitalization
and CT scan found no apparent cause. After three weeks, this led to
psychiatric hospitalization.  Two days later, it was found that during
the several weeks before the seizure and onset of mania, she had
started using aspartame in place of sugar in her iced tea, a gallon
daily.  Four days later, the mania subsided, and 13 months later she
continued to function well, and enjoying her large amounts of iced tea,
with sugar, not aspartame.

"The possible role of aspartame in seizure induction," 1987,
Proceedings of  the First International Conference on Phenylalanine and
the Brain, Wortman, RJ, Walker E (eds.), Center for Brain Sciences and
Metabolism Charitable Trust, Cambridge, England:

Nine cases, ages 19 to 91, briefly summarized:  "Case 4: A 61 year-old
woman had been in excellent health until she began consuming an average
of half a gallon per day of sugar-free beverages prepared with "Crystal
Light" mixes.  She experienced the onset of headaches, in the absence
of a  previous headache history. After three months of daily headaches,
she experienced a generalized seizure and was hospitalized.  CAT scan
and EEG were normal.  After discontinuing the use of all
aspartame-containing products, she has been headache- and
seizure-free."

These two reports are clinical anecdotes, hospital observations, not
controlled scientific experiments.  The necessary next step is a
double-blind study, in which neither the researcher nor the subjects
know when there is an inert placebo or the active drug.  Here are three
studies:

Koehler SM,  Glaros A., 1988. "The Effect of Aspartame on Migraine
Headache," Headache, Volume 28 (1) ,  10-14.

They conducted a double-blind study of patients who had a medical
diagnosis of migraines, who were not on medications (other than
analgesics), and who suspected that aspartame had a negative effect on
their migraine headaches. The subjects were given 1200 mg daily,
aspartame or placebo,  for four weeks, about 17 mg/kg.  The placebo
group had no increase in headaches.  Approximately half of the subjects
who took aspartame had a large increase in headaches.

Walton, RG, "Adverse reactions to aspartame: double-blind challenge in
patients from a vulnerable population," 1993,  with Robert Hudak and
Ruth J. Green-Waite,  Biological Psychiatry, 34 (1),  13-17:

Eight depressed patients and five non-depressed controls were given for
7 days either aspartame or a placebo, and then after a 3 day break,
given the opposite.  Each got  2100 mg  aspartame daily,
 30 mg/kg bodyweight, equal to 10-12 cans of diet soda daily,
about a  gallon.  Despite the very small number of subjects, the
results were dramatic and statistically significant. The eight
depressed patientsreported with aspartame, compared to placebo,
much higher levels of nervousness, trouble remembering, nausea,
depression, temper, and malaise.The five normals did not report
strong enough differences between aspartameand placebo to be
significant.

S.K. Van Den Eeden, T.D. Koepsell, W.T. Longstgreth, Jr, G. van Belle,
J.R. Daling, B. McKnight, "Aspartame ingestion and headaches: a
randomized crossover trial," 1994, Neurology, 44, 1787-93:

In their introduction, they commented,

"In addition, the FDA had received over 5,000 complaints as of July,
1991 in a passive surveillance system to monitor adverse side effects.
(17)  Neurologic problems constitute the primary complaints in these
and several other case series, with headaches accounting for
18 to 45 %,depending on the case series reported.  (17-19)"

Subjects were recruited who believed they got headaches from aspartame,
but were otherwise mentally and physically healthy.  Of the
32 subjects, 18 completed the 38-day trials: a  week of inert placebo,
a week of either aspartame or placebo, followed by a week of the
opposite, and then this two-week cycle repeated.  The daily dose
was 900 mg, about 30 mg/kg.  "The proportion of days subjects
reported having a headache was higher during aspartame treatment
compared with placebo treatment
(aspartame = 0.33, placebo = 0.24; p = 0.04) (table 5)".

Mark D. Gold, not a trained medical professional, maintains a website
that contains intelligent, lucid, thorough, and reasonably fair
information and analysis, including about 250 pages of personal reports
from posts on the Internet.

Aspartame Toxicity Information Center
http://www.HolisticMed.com/aspartame/
mgold holisticmed.com
35 Inman St., Cambridge, MA 02139   617-497-7843

Aspartame / NutraSweet Toxicity Reaction Samples
[from the Internet, part of a 857K file]
http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/adverse.txt

Here is a typical report from his files  -- we should call them, "The
A-Files":

Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:52:36 -0400
To: xxxxx xxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: Aspartame Victim

I would like to tell you about my personal experiences with
aspartame and what I feel that it has done to me.....

In the last two years I have become a *heavy* Diet Pepsi drinker
(approximately 2 two liters a day, plus NutraSweet in my coffee,
and many so called "diet" products once my weight gain began....
and I the more NutraSweet I consumed the more weight I put
on....),  hearing things about how NutraSweet was bad for you,
but never really knowing the facts. I don't know exactly how
long after starting to drink that much of the soda my symptoms
started to appear, but I would say that it was about six to
eight months.  For a little over a year now I have had to deal
with *tremendous* weight gain. I always had a little bit of
extra meat on my body, but I was always active enough to keep
it level. I never changed weight much, but in the last year I
have put on approximately 70 pounds, all in my thighs and hips.
(This may or may not be all from aspartame, obviously, but I
don't know....)

In addition to the weight gain, I have had AWFUL mood problems.
I have been diagnosed as manic depressive, and have started to
have anxiety attacks. I don't know how much of my other physical
ailments were caused by aspartame, but before I list them let me
say that previous to my drinking the soda all the time, I didn't
have any of the symptoms. I was an average, mostly healthy 19
year old girl. I have always had very very minor arthritis (since
I was a child) and very light asthma (never "attacks", but it made
normal colds worse)...... the rest of these things, I never had
ever had wrong with me until I started drinking the soda all the
time.

anxiety attacks/panic attacks
bloating
breathing difficulties/chronic cough
burning urination
VERY CHRONIC FATIGUE
depression (Very Badly)
EXTREMELY EXCESSIVE THIRST AND HUNGER
face flushing
thinning/losing hair
extreme loss of sexual feelings (has caused huge problems with my
fiancee and I)
inability to concentrate
insomnia (Severe)
irritability
itching
joint pains
VERY marked personality changes
memory loss/poor memory/not as good as it used to be
EXTREMELY MESSED UP menstrual cycles
numbless/tingling of extremities
EXTREME WEIGHT GAIN

I am now 21 years old, and I honestly feel like I'm an 85 year
old. (No offense to anyone older, but I think you get what I
mean...)  I just don't feel young and full of life the way I used
to. I thought these things were all wrong with me because of my
"manic depression" that the doctor said I had. I thought that all
of it was in my head.... I have spent time actively thinking
that I am an awful human being, fat and lazy and worthless.
Tracing these emotions backwards, I realize that they all
started after my HEAVY consumption of Diet Pepsi started. I
used to be vibrant, full of confidence and able to spend a day
being physically active with the best of them.

Now I can't do any of those things.

[update]

Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998
To: xxxxx xxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Re: My 60 days is over!!

I am just writing to update my personal aspartame story. ;)
Sometime a little over 60 days ago I wrote to you with my horror
story about aspartame. I am the 21 year old who felt as though I
were 95. I had a list of symptoms as long as my arm, and was
convinced that my entire life was on a downward spiral into
destruction.

But now!!

60 days later and I swear to God I feel like a new person. My
personality has just changed so much!! I feel like I did years
ago, before I started putting that poison into my body. The
panic/anxiety and depression and nastiness has just faded away.
My sleeping patterns have returned to normal. I eat and drink
like a normal person now, without the excessive consumption.
I can move like I used to, without the pains and aches.... Just
so many things about me have returned to how they should be.
I'm 21 again and just so happy I could scream!!

I just wanted to write to you and thank you for all the
information you have out there about aspartame. I have told
friends and family, I have taken the flyer to the supermarkets
and other local places and I think that people who I have
talked to about it have started to listen! It's wonderful.

I am a tribute to the values of keeping that junk out of your
body. It's an awful good thing my boyfriend loved me enough to
stay with me through all the horrible mood swings and things
I put him through.... He's getting quite the benefits also,
from the me he used to know before I started to become a
bitter old person.

Thank you xxxxxx, for spreading the word about this. I appreciate
it more than I can say.
[End of case story]

This report is much like the case histories cited by Walton, and has
many of the same symptoms, at a gallon daily of diet cola, as reported
in his experimental study with a similar dose level.   She had most of
the symptoms reported in two decades of case histories.

Woodrow C. Monte, Ph.D., Professsor of Food Science, Director of the
Food Science and Nutrition Laboratory, Arizona State University, Tempe,
Arizona  85287
6411 South River Drive  #61
Tempe, Arizona   85283-3337
United States of America
Phone/Fax 001 602-965-6938
woody.monte asu.edu

[ Notes: PubMed lists 14 papers and letters by "Monte WC" and various
partners, from 1977 to 1994, but not this one.  Go figure!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/

The methanol dose in 2 L of diet soda, 5.6 12-oz cans, 20 mg/12-oz can
methanol, is 112 mg methanol.  The EPA limit is 7.8 mg/day for this
cumulative poison.]

Dr. Woodrow C. Monte, "Aspartame: Methanol, and the Public Health,"
Journal of Applied Nutrition, Volume 36, No. 1,  pages 42-54, 1984.

Abstract:   Aspartame (L-aspartyl-L-phenylalanine methyl ester), a new
sweetener marketed under the trade name NutraSweet, releases into
the human bloodstream one molecule of methanol for each molecule of
aspartame consumed.

This new methanol source is being added to foods that have
considerably reduced caloric content and, thus, may be consumed in
large amounts.  Generally, none of these foods could be
considered dietary methanol sources prior to addition of aspartame.
When diet sodas and soft drinks, sweetened with aspartame, are used
to replace fluid loss during exercise and physical exertion in hot
climates, the intake of methanol can exceed 250 mg/day or 32
times the Environmental Protection Agency's recommended
limit of consumption for this cumulative toxin (8).
[ EPA limit: 7.8 mg/day.  A 12-oz can of diet soda has 20 mg methanol.]

There is extreme variation in the human response to acute
methanol poisoning, the lowest recorded lethal oral dose
being 100 mg/kg [10,000 mg for a 100 kg person] with
one individual surviving a dose over ninety times this level (55).
Humans, due perhaps to the loss of two enzymes during evolution, are
more sensitive to methanol than any laboratory animal;  even the monkey
is not generally accepted as a suitable animal model (42).  There are
no human or mammalian studies to evaluate the possible mutagenic,
teratogenic, or carcinogenic effects of chronic administration of
methyl alcohol (55).

The average intake of methanol from natural sources varies but
limited data suggests an average intake of considerably less than 10
mg/day (8). [A 12-oz can of diet soda has 20 mg methanol.]  Alcoholics
may average much more, with a potential range of between
0 and 600 mg/day, depending on the source and in some
cases the quality of their beverages (15).

 Ethanol, the classic antidote for methanol toxicity, is found in
natural food sources of methanol at concentrations 5 to 500,000 times
that of the toxin (Table 1).  Ethanol inhibits metabolism of methanol
and allows the body time for clearance of the toxin through the lungs
and kidneys (40, 46).

The question asked is whether uncontrolled consumption of this
new sweetener might increase the methanol intake of certain
individuals to a point beyond which our limited knowledge of acute
and chronic human methanol toxicity can be extrapolated to predict
safety.  [end of Abstract]

Monte's study explains:

Methanol (methyl alcohol, wood alcohol), a poisonous substance
(60), is added as a component during the manufacture of aspartame (47).
This methanol is subsequently released within hours of consumption (51)
after hydrolysis of the methyl group of the dipeptide by chymotrypsin
in the small intestine (40) as it occurs in soft drinks after
decomposition of aspartame during storage or in other foods after
being heated (48).  Regardless of whether the aspartame-derived
methanol exists in food in its free form or still esterified to
phenylalanine, 10% of the weight of aspartame intake of an individual
will be absorbed by the bloodstream as methanol within hours after
consumption (51). [So, a daily dose of 2100mg aspartame,
used in some experimental tests, gives 210 mg of methanol.]
Methanol has no therapeutic properties and is considered
only as a toxicant (20).  The ingestion of two teaspoons
is considered lethal in humans (19).

An average aspartame-sweetened beverage would have a conservative
aspartame content of about 555 mg/liter (48, 51) and therefore, a
methanol equivalent of 56 mg/liter (56 ppm).  For example, if a 25 kg
child consumed on a warm day, after exercising, two-thirds of a
two-liter bottle of soft drink sweetened with aspartame, that child
would be consuming over 732 mg of aspartame (29 mg/kg).  This alone
exceeds what the Food and Drug Administration considers the 99 +
percentile daily consumption level of aspartame (48).  The child would
also absorb over 70 mg of methanol from that soft drink.  This is
almost ten times the Environmental Protection Agency’s recommended daily

limit
of consumption for methanol.

To look at the issue from another perspective, the literature reveals
death from consumption of the equivalent of 6 gm of methanol (55, 59).
It would take 200 12 oz. cans of soda to yield the lethal equivalent of
6 gm of methanol.  [Monte's point is that the methanol dose from 2 L of
diet soda, 5.6 12-oz cans, 20 mg/12-oz can methanol, 112 mg
methanol, too close to the lethal dose, 6000 mg, according to the
usual standards for other toxins.  The EPA limit is 7.8 mg/day for this
cumulative
poison.]

 A striking feature of methyl alcohol syndrome the asymptomatic
interval (latent period) which usually lasts 12 to 18 hours after
consumption.

Patients may complain of lethargy, confusion, and impairment of
articulation, all frequently encountered signs in moderate central
nervous system (CNS) intoxications resulting from other toxic
compounds (20).   Patients may also suffer leg cramps, back pain,
severe headache, abdominal pain, labored breathing, vertigo and
visual loss, the latter being a very important clue to making a
diagnosis of methanol poisoning (20).

Many of the signs and symptoms of intoxication due to methanol
ingestion are not specific to methyl alcohol.  For example, headaches,
ear buzzing, dizziness, nausea and unsteady gait (inebriation),
gastrointestinal disturbances, weakness, vertigo, chills, memory
lapses, numbness and shooting pains in the lower extremities hands and
forearms, behavioral disturbances, and neuritis (55).  The most
characteristic signs and symptoms of methyl alcohol poisoning in humans
are the various visual disturbances which can occur without acidosis
(55), although they unfortunately do not always appear (20).  Some
of these symptoms are the following:  misty vision, progressive
contraction of visual fields (vision tunneling), mist before the eyes,
blurring of vision, and obscuration of vision (20, 55).
[End of quotes from Monte study]

Here is research in 1998 by C. Trocho et al, using a very low
level of aspartame ingestion, 10 mg/kg, for rats, which have a much
greater tolerance for aspartame than humans.  So, the corresponding
level for humans would be about 1 or 2 mg/kg.  (Many headache studies in

humans used doses of about 30 mg/kg daily.)    This proves that
aspartame causes binding of methanol's product, formaldehyde, a potent,
cumulative toxin, into tissues.

Life Sci 1998;63(5):337-49     From PubMed

Formaldehyde derived from dietary aspartame binds to tissue components
in vivo.  Trocho C, Pardo R, Rafecas I, Virgili J, Remesar X,
Fernandez-Lopez JA, Alemany M, Departament de Bioquimica i Biologia
Molecular, Facultat de Biologia, Universitat de Barcelona, Spain.

Abstract:
Adult male rats were given an oral dose of 10 mg/kg aspartame,
14C-labelled in the methanol carbon. At timed intervals of up to 6
hours, the radioactivity in plasma and several organs was investigated.
Most of the radioactivity found (>98% in plasma, >75% in liver) was
bound to protein. Label present in liver, plasma and kidney was in the
range of 1-2% of total radioactivity administered per g or mL, changing
little with time. Other organs (brown and white adipose tissues, muscle,

brain, cornea and retina) contained levels of label in the range of
1/12th to 1/10th of that of liver. In all, the rat retained, 6 hours
after administration, about 5% of the label, half of it in the liver.
The specific radioactivity of tissue protein, RNA and DNA was quite
uniform. The protein label was concentrated in amino acids, different
from methionine, and largely coincident with the result of protein
exposure
to labelled formaldehyde. DNA radioactivity was essentially in a single
different adduct base, different from the normal bases present in DNA.
The nature of the tissue label accumulated was, thus, a direct
consequence of formaldehyde binding to tissue structures. The
administration of labelled aspartame to a group of cirrhotic rats
resulted in comparabl label retention by tissue components, which
suggests that liver function(or its defect) has little effect on
formaldehyde
formation from aspartame and binding to biological components. The
chronic treatment of a series of rats with 200 mg/kg of non-labelled
aspartame during 10 days resulte in the accumulation of even more label
when given the radioactive bolus, suggesting that the amount of
formaldehyde
adducts coming from aspartame in tissue proteins and nucleic acids may
be cumulative.
It is concluded that aspartame consumption may constitute a hazard
because of its contribution to the formation of formaldehyde adducts.
PMID: 9714421, UI: 98378223

Mark D. Gold has an excellent, detailed analysis, "Scientific Abuse in
Methanol / Formaldehyde Research  Related to Aspartame"  at:

http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/abuse/methanol.html#discussion   .

In short, biochemical evidence exists to motivate us to seriously and
respectfully consider anecdotal evidence of aspartame toxicity.

Mark  D. Gold gives another detailed review, "Scientific Abuse in
Seizure Research Related to Aspartame", at:

http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/abuse/seizures.html   .

"If the seizures from aspartame are caused by the combination of
methanol/formaldehyde and the excitotoxic amino acid from aspartame, as
I believe may be the case, it is important to note that methanol is 10
times more acutely toxic in humans than in rodents (Roe 1982),  and it
takes five times more excitotoxins given to rodents to simulate human
ingestion (Olney 1988, Stegink 1979, page 90)."

Monte's  prescient warning was published fifteen years ago.  Many
symptoms of methanol toxicity are present in the many case reports.
One would hope that all experts involved would focus on identifying all
vulnerable populations and the exact toxic biochemistry, and,
of course, act to eliminate aspartame, but, sadly enough, entrenched
financial interests, just as in the case of tobacco, lead to corruption
of the scientific process, as Walton elucidates in this 66-page report:

"Survey of aspartame studies: correlation of outcome and funding
sources," 1998,  unpublished as yet:

Walton found 166 separate published studies in the peer reviewed
medical literature,  which had relevance for questions of human safety.
The 74 studies funded by industry all (100 %) attested to aspartame's
safety, whereas of the 91 non-industry  funded studies, 84 ( 92 % )
identified a problem.   Six of the seven non-industry funded studies
that were favorable to aspartame safety were from the FDA, which has a
public record that shows a strong pro-industry bias.

Moreover, 33 pro-aspartame studies were, with slight changes,
published repeatedly in different journals from 2 to 6 times each.
Walton comments, "Virtually all journals require that an affidavit be
signed by all authors to the effect that neither the manuscript
nor the data it contains have been previously published
or concurrently submitted elsewhere for publication.
Violation of this policy may have a detrimental impact
on scientific progress and ethics."

Thus, the aspartame industry has funded many biased studies, and by
unfairly publishing them again and again,  created a false scientific
image that aspartame is widely proven safe in laboratories.

It could be so easy to elimanate a major public health hazard.  After
all, apartame is not a drug that is essential for individual health,
nor is it very addicting.

You may search among 9 million medical citations on PubMed for any
topic or author, and for half the studies get an abstract summary:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/

A passionate discussion group for aspartame can be subscribed to at
www.onelist.com.  The archive since Dec. 31, 1998 may be read at
http://www.onelist.com/arcindex.cgi?listname=aspartame  .

Personal case histories are given almost daily by identified writers.
I hope some medical professionals join this frank discussion.

The herbal sweetener, stevia, used for centuries,  now common in many
nations, is safe, and costs about $ 9 per 100 packets.  A packet can
flavor two cups of drink.  You have to get used to the peculiar flavor.

Those who cannot easily reduce or eliminate their diet cola habit, can
try products with other sweeteners.  RC Cola uses sucralose, less
hazardous than aspartame.  I happen to enjoy making my own
soft drinks -- my favorite is:  club soda on ice with pomegranate juice
with a bit of lemon.

On Oct. 21, 1998, the Center for Science in the Public Interest
[ www.cspinet.org ] in their "Nutrition Action Newsletter,  reported
that in the USA, $ 54 billion was spent in a year on soda pop, more
than twice that spent on books.  Males, age 12-19, averaged 868 cans
a year, over two cans daily.  The industry spent $ 6 billion on
advertising in a decade.   The Boys and Girls Clubs got $ 60 million
from Coca-Cola to for an exclusive franchise at their 2,000 clubs.

Since much diet soda contains caffeine, many users have a caffeine
addiction.

John Coleman on  http://www.vegan-straight-edge.org.uk/nocoffee.htm
cites Stephen J. Gislason, MD, who has no scientific papers listed on
PubMed:

"The caffeine dose in a cup of coffee ranges from 100 to 160 mg. A cup
of tea has 20-60 mg and 12 ounces of regular Coca Cola has 45 mg
of caffeine. The symptom complex produced by tea parallels coffee...
Daily coffee or tea ingestion induces a 24 hour cyclic disturbance with
morning arousal, irritability, difficulty concentrating, subtle levels
of disorganization, clumsiness, and forgetfulness. As the day
progresses, 2 or more cups later, a heavy fatigue sets in by mid to
late afternoon. Further coffee doses may rouse one a bit, but then
further collapse is inevitable by evening. Irritability may evolve into
disproportionate or inappropriate angry outbursts, pleasure-loss,
absence of good-feelings, or empathy anesthesia.
It is likely that the subtle pyschopathology of moderate to heavy
coffee consumption contributes to the production of unnecessary
conflict and dysphoria. The subtle cognitive and memory deficits
which appear after coffee intake should alarm employers who
expect their employees to think, remember, or carry out skilled,
coordinated acts. It may be that coffee and tea intake
facilitates dull,routine, rote tasks where thinking, skill, and
initiative are unimportant. The cognitive and emotional defects of
the coffee-drinker should also alarm a spouse or close family member
who cannot understand why the relationship is not working. Until you
consider coffee and other food-factors, mental and emotional
disturbances may be totally mystifiying. Early sleep may be denied
the infrequent coffee user. The chronic coffee-used may go to sleep
readily but sleeps poorly and awakens feeling tired and mentally
clouded. Morning fatigue demands more coffee to get going.
A familiar recursive loop is established following the familiar
addictive sequence."

This is all familiar to me in my own personal experience for
forty years  -- so I quit coffee.  I don't like being suddenly
irritable and brusque, or noticing that my handwriting is trembly.

Rich Murray, MA
(Psychology, 1967, Boston University Graduate School)
Room For All
1943  Otowi Drive
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505-986-9103 home, 920-6130 cellular VoiceStream
http://home.earthlink.net/~rmforall


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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 20:46:32 1999
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From: "Frederick J Sparber" <fjsparb sprintmail.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Cc: <Claytor lanl.gov>, <Ron.Brodzinski@pnl.gov>
Subject: Re: Cold Fusion/Over-Unity, A Solar Neutrino Shell Game?
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:39:45 -0700
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To: Vortex

IF the Solar Neutrinos have an energy-releasing affinity for atoms/molecules
ranging from a fraction of an ev to about 3.0 ev as does the electron in
Electron Affinity, then a cycle of attachment and photo-detachment or
"borrowing" should occur.

In the case of electrolysis where about 1.2 to 2.5 ev can "expose" the bare
Proton or Deuteron, then the attachment energy release of a neutrino
"sequestered" from  a lower energy composite could be equal to, or approach
the ionization energy, thus allowing the electrolysis to act as an "energy
multiplier".

This conjecture is easier to see with afternoon thundershowers in "Dog-Day"
weather. :-)

Regards,   Frederick




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 22:37:47 1999
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From: VCockeram aol.com
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Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 01:33:04 EST
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In a message dated 03/25/1999 11:32:22 Pacific Standard Time,
JedRothwell infinite-energy.com writes:
> Scott Little's data comparing the Clarke-Hess meter to the $30 wattmeter is
>  surprising. I had no idea those things were so accurate.
>  - Jed
> 
For me, I'm not really suprised. Those meters are MONEY to the power companys
and naturally, fear of litigation by consumers if they were not accurate.
 
So now I have (or will Monday) a just about bullet proof method of measuring
input power to my cell. I just hope my caculations on the efficiency of the
high voltage transformer are correct. (worry,worry)  Thanks again to Scott !

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada
702-254-2122
22:30

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 25 23:06:56 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Electron capture
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:05:12 GMT
Organization: Improving
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"Remember that converting an electron [during EC] requires dumping
enough energy into it to expel it from the atom (more or less);"

I came across this puzzling statement at:

http://www.rmplc.co.uk/eduweb/sites/rmext04/92andwed/pf_genrl.html#Q16

Can anyone explain?


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 26 05:17:05 1999
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Fred,

Fred,

Thanks for the two interesting new electrolytes you've mentioned here on
Vortex-L, namely potassium permanganate and potassium hydrogen sulfate.  I
hadn't heard of those before.  (I seem to have lost the email where you
suggested potassium permanganate.  Is the formula K2MnO4?)

Sodium hydrogen sulfate may be cheaper than potassium hydrogen sulfate, but
sodium hydrogen sulfate won't work in electrolytic excess heat experiments
with a nickel cathode.  Sodium doesn't have the right property.  Potassium
does.

Tom Stolper

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Peter Glueck,

Thanks for reminding me of where to look for Park's online stuff  (but by the
way, his column is on the APS website, not the AIP website).

You're a chemical engineer.  Randell Mills' gas-phase excess heat cells and
his reactors for making hydrino hydride compounds, as published on the BLP
website and in the new January 1999 edition of his book, all look like
chemical engineering to me.  What's your opinion of them?

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 26 05:19:28 1999
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Vince,

Maybe AOL v 3.01 will handle JPEG.  I'd like to try.  Could you send me one of
the images to see if my browser will decode it?

Horace:  Thanks for the tip about Graffikkonverter.  I may eventually get
that.  I did finally get a new computer last summer, a Mac PowerBook 2400c.
It has a 180 MHz PowerMac 603 chip with a cache, and I upgraded the RAM to the
maximum possible for that model, namely a total of 80 MB, so it should be able
to handle any Mac programs out there.  But first I'd like to try the browser.

Tom Stolper

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Dear Tom,
Excuse me for the error, yes it is APS and he has two messages re. Mills
in 1999 both very aggressive.
I have no problems with accepting Mills' theory and his results. It is a problem
of scale-up and scale-up is a problem of time. My opinion is perfectly positive.
The field is huge. And great.

Peter

----------
From: 	Tstolper aol.com
Sent: 	26 March 1999 15:13 PM
To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: 	Opinion of Mills' Work?

Peter Glueck,

Thanks for reminding me of where to look for Park's online stuff  (but by the
way, his column is on the APS website, not the AIP website).

You're a chemical engineer.  Randell Mills' gas-phase excess heat cells and
his reactors for making hydrino hydride compounds, as published on the BLP
website and in the new January 1999 edition of his book, all look like
chemical engineering to me.  What's your opinion of them?

Tom Stolper



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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 26 08:02:59 1999
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Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:59:26 +0000
From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 cwnet.com>
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Organization: IdeaWorks Consulting
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Electron capture
References: <37073eee.128904808 mail-hub>
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

> "Remember that converting an electron [during EC] requires dumping
> enough energy into it to expel it from the atom (more or less);"

My take on conversion electrons, where the photon that would normally be emitted
in gamma decay is "virtual" and its "energy is absorbed by an atomic electron,"
is not exactly the same. Instead, a gamma photon of about .5 MeV is indeed, for
many practical purposes, a "virtual electron." Maybe that's splitting hairs, but
if you take E=mc^2 to it's obvious limits, what else is possible?

Regards,
Jones



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 26 11:40:42 1999
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Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:28:51 +0200
From: hamdi ucar <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
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CC: Modanese Giovanni <modanese alpha.science.unitn.it>
Subject: Re: Podkletnov/Schnuner effect ....
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Dear John,

Sorry, for the typos. 

Actually, the posting body had also many errors, and relased a revised vesion (which is still not good enough). Still working on it. Aopologize for the premature posting for everyone. 


John Schnurer wrote:
> 
>         For the record:
> 
>         My name is Schnurer.  John Herman Schnurer.  Eugene's name is
> Dr. Eugene Podkletnov.
> 
>                                 Thanks,
> 
>                         JHS


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 26 11:45:55 1999
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http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/03/990326062209.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 26 13:06:20 1999
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From: VCockeram aol.com
Message-ID: <ad428bc5.36fbf17f aol.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:43:43 EST
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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Subject: Re: H2 w/K glow discharge
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--part0_922481023_boundary
Content-ID: <0_922481023 inet_out.mail.aol.com.1>
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In a message dated 03/26/1999 05:17:08 Pacific Standard Time, Tstolper aol.com
writes:

> Maybe AOL v 3.01 will handle JPEG.  I'd like to try.  Could you send me one 
> of the images to see if my browser will decode it?

Sure, no problem, it's a 26k jpg file. I can view it with either aol 4.0 or
Internet Explorer.
The reactor tube is at the right. The device wired to the side of the tube is
a carbon shoe with the K-Type thermocouple cemented into a hole bored in the
shoe.  I have since been attaching the thermocouple bead directly to the tube
using a piece of fiberglass cloth and securing it to the tube wall with steel
wire. Much better reading of the actual tube temperature. The stainless steel
rod to the right of the tube is the lower electrode support post (actually it
supports the lower end of the tube with it's standard quartz lamp contact. The
picture is of an H2 with K run. You can see the tube walls at red heat. This
run (I think) was running at about 50 watts input DC, upper electrode
negative. The upper electrode is a short stub of heavy W filiment while the
lower electrode is  the lamp filiment contact surrounded by molten K.

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada
702-254-2122

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--part0_922481023_boundary--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 26 16:36:45 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Electron capture
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 01:34:40 GMT
Organization: Improving
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On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:59:26 +0000, Jones Beene wrote:

>Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>
>> "Remember that converting an electron [during EC] requires dumping
>> enough energy into it to expel it from the atom (more or less);"
>
>My take on conversion electrons, where the photon that would normally be emitted
>in gamma decay is "virtual" and its "energy is absorbed by an atomic electron,"
>is not exactly the same. Instead, a gamma photon of about .5 MeV is indeed, for
>many practical purposes, a "virtual electron." Maybe that's splitting hairs, but
>if you take E=mc^2 to it's obvious limits, what else is possible?
[snip]
I appear to be missing the point entirely here. Perhaps a complete
explanation is in order. I was under the impression the EC *could* occur
with emission of a neutrino and sometimes also a gamma-ray. I don't
understand what you are trying to explain above.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 26 17:25:49 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Electron capture
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 02:23:45 GMT
Organization: Improving
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On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:59:26 +0000, Jones Beene wrote:

>Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>
>> "Remember that converting an electron [during EC] requires dumping
>> enough energy into it to expel it from the atom (more or less);"
>
>My take on conversion electrons, where the photon that would normally be emitted
>in gamma decay is "virtual" and its "energy is absorbed by an atomic electron,"
>is not exactly the same. Instead, a gamma photon of about .5 MeV is indeed, 
Thanks, but never mind, I was confused over the authors use of internal
conversion in a place where I didn't think it appropriate.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 26 17:31:07 1999
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From: "Frederick J Sparber" <fjsparb sprintmail.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: electron capture
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Robin's Mystery. :-)

Try this "Model" Robin, it might not square with the "Standard Model", but
it gives a perspective on K Capture that isn't energetic enough to create an
Electron-Positron Pair thus cannot decay by positron emission.

5A - 2Z quarks in each nucleus:

4Be7, 5A - 2Z = 35 - 8 = 27 "quarks"

2A "up"       = 14


2A - Z "down" = 10


A - Z        =  3 electron/antineutrinos

Plus Z external electrons = 4

3Li7 5A - 2Z = 35 - 6 =  29 "quarks"

2A "up"       = 14

2A - Z "down" = 11

A - Z        =  4 electron or antineutrinos

Plus Z external electrons = 3

The E.C. or K capture energy release is 0.862 Mev, evidently not enough
energy to create an Electron-Positron Pair as can occur in heavier nuclei,
but plenty enough to create a Neutrino-Antineutrino Pair ~= 1.0 ev allowing
the Neutrino to carry off a lot of the 0.862 Mev.

IOW, the 4Be7 nucleus can share energy/mass with one of it's external
electrons and "shrink it down to fit into the nucleus,will conserving
Energy/Momentum (spin, mcr = n*hbar stays constant) create the
Neutrino-Antineutrino Pair and convert to 3Li7.

Regards,   Frederick


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 27 02:16:54 1999
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<bigger>Is it possible to skip the fission booster when achieving a
fusion bomb? If it could be done with a laser then uncontrolled fusion
could be achieved in a microscopic hydrogen bomb. This explosion could
then drive a big engine for power production. Would it be possible?


Instead of destroying the world H-bombs could be used to save the world.
We cannot continue to use fossile fuels.


David


</bigger>

David Jonsson  Phone +46-8-740 02 81         Fax +46-18-24 51 56

Stockholm      Cellular GSM +46-706-339487   E-mail David Bahnhof.se

Sweden         http://www.bahnhof.se/~david  Postgiro 499 40 54-7

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 27 04:53:39 1999
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From: "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
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Subject: Re: Fusion without fission booster
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:11:21 -0500
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David Jonsson said:
    Is it possible to skip the fission booster when achieving a fusion bomb?
If it could be done with a laser then uncontrolled fusion could be achieved
in a microscopic hydrogen bomb. This explosion could then drive a big engine
for power production. Would it be possible?

    Instead of destroying the world H-bombs could be used to save the world.
We cannot continue to use fossil fuels.

    David

    -------------------------
    Of course it is, and the US and other governments have been working on
it for years. It is called inertial confinement. Pellets of frozen deuterium
oxide, or the like, are dropped into a chamber at the focus point of an
array of very high powered lasers. When the pellet arrives at that point,
the lasers are fired and the converging light energy compresses and heats
the pellet, creating a shockwave that initiates a fusion reaction burst. The
energy is captured by the surrounding chamber.

    The problem with this, like the Tokomak electromagnetic confinement
system, is that the energy required to drive the system is greater than that
recovered in the reaction, and has been so for decades.

    While the Tokomak projects are being curtailed because of no results,
the inertial confinement research continues because high powered lasers have
other applications as weapons.

    It is only the LENR systems which have given excess energy yield since
the Fleischmann and Pons disclosure ten years ago.

    Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 27 05:23:11 1999
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From: Tstolper aol.com
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Vince,

Thanks for the JPEG image.  It downloaded easily and opened perfectly from my
hard drive.  Evidently AOL v3.01 does handle JPEG.  And thanks for the
explanation of the picture, too.

Tom Stolper

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Jed,

Thanks for the interesting reports from Atlanta and for the answer, in your
post Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:46:30 -0500, to my question about why Park
attacked Mills.

You wrote, "Park and Zimmerman both attacked Mills, but they did not say
anything awful about him. They
briefly described his suborbital electron theory, which most scientists find
ridiculous.  Nearly all cold fusion scientists I know think it is
preposterous."  

I'm afraid that's right.  It may be the chief cause of the estrangement that
grew up between Mills and the cold fusion community.                          

You also wrote, "Mills invites and deserves this kind of ridicule by keeping
his excess energy devices secret."

Why do you say that he's kept them secret?  Mills published enough details
about the electrolytic cells to enable Robert Bush, Reiko Notoya, and Mitchell
Swartz to reproduce them, apparently without any help from Mills or his
associates.  Mills published enough details about the gas-phase cells to
enable Vince Cockeram to make one, also apparently without any help from Mills
or his associates.  Mills and BLP haven't been as secretive as CETI or
Piantelli, for example.  Mills hasn't published every last detail of all of
his devices and compounds, but then surely you and your grandfather didn't
publish every last detail about all of your products either?

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 27 10:06:54 1999
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Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 13:06:55 -0500 (EST)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
cc: vortexC-L eskimo.com, Modanese Giovanni <modanese@alpha.science.unitn.it>
Subject: SCHNURER  !!! Re: Podkletnov/Schnuner effect ....
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	That is Schnurer :)

On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, hamdi ucar wrote:

> Dear John,
> 
> Sorry, for the typos. 
> 
> Actually, the posting body had also many errors, and relased a revised vesion (which is still not good enough). Still working on it. Aopologize for the premature posting for everyone. 
> 
> 
> John Schnurer wrote:
> > 
> >         For the record:
> > 
> >         My name is Schnurer.  John Herman Schnurer.  Eugene's name is
> > Dr. Eugene Podkletnov.
> > 
> >                                 Thanks,
> > 
> >                         JHS
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 27 14:46:58 1999
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I wrote "nearly all cold fusion scientists I know think [the Mills theory]
is preposterous."  Tom Stolper responds:

	I'm afraid that's right.  It may be the chief cause of the
	estrangement that grew up between Mills and the cold fusion
	community.                          

No, Mills is the only source of estrangement. Cold fusion scientists don't
mind preposterous theories. Several of them have politely asked Mills to
cooperate with them in joint research even though they discount his
theories. He has ignored or rebuffed them.


	You also wrote, "Mills invites and deserves this kind of
	ridicule by keeping his excess energy devices secret."

	Why do you say that he's kept them secret?  Mills published
	enough details about the electrolytic cells to enable Robert
	Bush, Reiko Notoya, and Mitchell Swartz to reproduce them . . .

CETI has been granted patents, yet they are effectively keeping their work
secret, especially by threatening to sue scientists who attempt to
replicate them. Mills claimed that he had effective, large-scale excess
heat from gas cells many years ago. Assuming this was true, he should have
demonstrated those cells in public and at venues like the APS. (Many
devices were demonstrated by the exhibitors; our friend Mike Schaffer was
there demonstrating a plasma machine!) He should have sold demonstration
kits to corporations and universities. If he had done that, by now he would
have licensed thousands of industrial corporations to develop the
technology, and he would have hundreds of millions of dollars.  The best
people in the world would be clamoring to work for him. Compare his
behavior to that of AT&T, which invited busloads of scientists and
engineers for hands-on training with their transistors within a few months
of the breakthrough, long before transistors became practical or
cost-effective. Compare his behavior to that of Bill Gates, who started
selling his first software, a BASIC interpreter, the very day he finished
it. If Gates had followed Mills model, he would have waited ten years while
he perfected the BASIC in secret. If he had followed the CETI model, he
would sue people who try to write programs with his software.


	. . . apparently without any help from Mills or his associates.

My point exactly. Imagine how many more might have done it if Mills
understood business. Mills would be one of the most famous, richest, and
influential people on earth. He would have given the keynote address at the
APS. People might actually take his theory seriously.


	Mills hasn't published every last detail of all of his devices
	and compounds, but then surely you and your grandfather didn't
	publish every last detail about all of your products either?

Yes, we did. All businesses always do. When you sell developer's kits and
products, you tell the world everything  about your product. Your
competitors reverse engineer your products, and they hire away your
employees. They learn more from hands-on reverse engineering than they
would from a stack of textbooks and patents. Success engenders competition.
But that cannot be helped, and it is a minor problem. The greatest threat
to your success are the mistakes you make yourself, and your own hubris.
The only protection from competition is to keep running, keep improving
your product, and keep your employees and customers happy.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 27 14:47:16 1999
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Subject: Zimmerman strikes again
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During his presentation at the APS, Zimmerman vowed to stop the free energy
conference at the Commerce Department. He quickly succeeded. Valone informs
us that the meeting will now be held in a hotel. Here is an e-mail message
from Zimmerman to a friend bragging about his achievements. The tone is
very similar to that of his talk at the APS.

- Jed

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Message-ID: <s6f9fcb1.092 acda.gov>
From: Zimmerpe acda.gov
To: iri erols.com
Subject: [Fwd: Re: CONFERENCE] -Reply
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:06:30 -0500
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Oh the shame of it all.  How dastardly we were to poor Mr. Valone.  He
and his Aussie friend are embarrassed and it's all our fault.  How can
they ever forgive us?  How can we ever cleanse our souls of this black
mark?

I had a wonderful time at the Physical Society meeting in Atlanta, and you
and I were hailed as heroine/hero for getting the conference moved out
of State.  I have reason to believe that a "Higher Power" will get them
evicted from Commerce too.  I will probably take a direct hit in "Infinite
Energy" magazine because they sent somebody to cover the session on
Pseudoscience and I was pretty scathing.  

Obviously, I'm back at work.

Cheers,
pete

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 27 15:27:28 1999
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Message-ID: <36FD680A.F88F3365 earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:21:46 -0700
From: "Richard T. Murray" <rmforall earthlink.net>
Organization: Room For All
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Subject: French A/G symposium, Jan 1999, translated?
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Subject:  France Science Frontiers
   Date:    Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:36:59 -0800
   From:    Ron Kita <gravity voicenet.com>
     To:      rmforall earthlink.net

Greetings,
Has the French A/G symposium of JAn 1999 been translated into
English????
Best
Ron Kita



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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 27 19:47:53 1999
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My comments on this dialogue:


>I wrote "nearly all cold fusion scientists I know think [the Mills theory]
>is preposterous."  Tom Stolper responds:
>
> I'm afraid that's right.  It may be the chief cause of the
> estrangement that grew up between Mills and the cold fusion
> community.
>
>No, Mills is the only source of estrangement. Cold fusion scientists don't
>mind preposterous theories. Several of them have politely asked Mills to
>cooperate with them in joint research even though they discount his
>theories. He has ignored or rebuffed them.


MC: Estrangement from who? Scott? Mills doesn't want association with the CF
camp for reasons I have outlined here before. Considering the machinations
of Park and Zimmerman, I can sympathize with him. This doesn't make him
asocial, he just sees another strategy he is pursuing. He has nothing to
gain from the CF camp.

> You also wrote, "Mills invites and deserves this kind of
> ridicule by keeping his excess energy devices secret."
>
> Why do you say that he's kept them secret?  Mills published
> enough details about the electrolytic cells to enable Robert
> Bush, Reiko Notoya, and Mitchell Swartz to reproduce them . . .
>
>CETI has been granted patents, yet they are effectively keeping their work
>secret, especially by threatening to sue scientists who attempt to
>replicate them. Mills claimed that he had effective, large-scale excess
>heat from gas cells many years ago.

MC: I'm not sure this is literally true. A year or two back, when I was
first talking about Mills' work, I had some conversations with John Farrell,
who said that the $10.6 million was to go toward building a multi-kilowatt
demonstration gas phase reactor, and I posted these impressions on vortex.
I'm not sure Mills ever publicly claimed to have such a reactor in place.
Judging from his current position, summarized in my article in IE 24, he
still doesn't have the high power reactor going. It involves specialty
materials, like a molybdenum vessel that will withstand high temperatures
and still be relatively impermeable to hydrogen and hydrinos.

>From the current Website one can infer that the medium scale gas phase
reactor has been operating for some time. This is a lab experiment with lots
of ancillary equipment, like some CF experiments. Not even very exciting to
look at. When I talked to him in the preparation of the IE article, he
indicated that people could visit his lab and see the heat measurements and
the EUV spectroscopy, and go away with their doubts still in place. So of
what avail a press conference?

His strategy is to produce samples of the hydrino hydrides for chemists to
analyze and see for themselves that something extraordinary has been
produced.

>Assuming this was true, he should have
>demonstrated those cells in public and at venues like the APS.

MC: An assumption, Jed, leading to an unwarranted conclusion. If you look at
his Website, you will see diagrams of the test apparatus for the various
stages of reactors. The medium scale gas phase reactor isn't something you
trundle off to an APS meeting. It probably isn't OU, for heat has to be
supplied to dissociate the hydrogen and vaporize the potassium catalyst.

(Many
>devices were demonstrated by the exhibitors; our friend Mike Schaffer was
>there demonstrating a plasma machine!) He should have sold demonstration
>kits to corporations and universities.

MC: It isn't a kit. He perhaps could have invested time and money in
developing a kit, but this is a separate project. As I said, it isn't OU at
this stage. So then the buyers would have to invest in a whole lab setup to
verify the heat balance, and EUV spectroscopy to look for the reaction
signature. The latter is very distinctly **not** an easy procedure. BLP had
to have custom equipment built and hired a qualified man to operate it.
Mills explicitly says in his current Website that self sustaining operation
can be expected only at a higher power level than he is now operating at.

>If he had done that, by now he would
>have licensed thousands of industrial corporations to develop the
>technology, and he would have hundreds of millions of dollars.  The best
>people in the world would be clamoring to work for him.

Assumptions, based on assumptions about the technology.

>Compare his
>behavior to that of AT&T, which invited busloads of scientists and
>engineers for hands-on training with their transistors within a few months
>of the breakthrough, long before transistors became practical or
>cost-effective.

MC: Not comparable at all, at all. Transistors were solidly based on decades
of solid state physics and on the large scale production of point contact
diodes whose production base may well have originated in their use as
transmit-receive switches in radar systems. In a radar, the same antenna and
plumbing serve both for transmit and receive functions. You sent out a very
powerful burst of RF energy, which would fry the receiver, which must be
very sensitive to pick up the weak return pulse form the target. The
receiver must be protected by a switch that opens instantly after the pulse
ends. This was done by a point contact diode, which went into conduction
during transmission, closing the door to the receiver.

With the announcement of the invention of the transistor and a short
explanation of its construction, there was no doubt about its operability or
its potential. It fit right in with the existing paradigms and knowledge of
physics. There was implicit confidence that methods of production would be
found. It was almost a decade later that the planar transistor was
developed, which led to ICs and the real digital age.

This simply isn't true of LENR nor Mills' BLP process. Both are on the
fringe of science at the moment, each a challenge to conventional thinking.

>Compare his behavior to that of Bill Gates, who started
>selling his first software, a BASIC interpreter, the very day he finished
>it. If Gates had followed Mills model, he would have waited ten years while
>he perfected the BASIC in secret.

MC: Again, there is no comparison for the technical foundations are
completely different. Gates worked in a time when digital logic and
microprocessors already existed, there was a tradition of compilers, etc.
There was a stable technical foundation that everyone understood. Mills has
published his theory and test results, people just don't believe him,
anymore than the Dayton newspaper editors thought there was anything special
in the Wright brothers doing takeoffs and landings in an open field for all
to see.

>If he had followed the CETI model, he
>would sue people who try to write programs with his software.


MC: I won't defend CETI's actions. There was also, apparently, a tragic
entrepreneurial hubris on the part of Reding and I don't know who else in
rebuffing the Motorola $15 million buyout offer. CETI's bead effort
apparently foundered on a technical miscalculation about the bead chemistry.
The initial batch of beads apparently had an impurity whose role in the cell
performance was unrealized until that supply was exhausted and the next
batches didn't work, and the vendor was out of business (Jed's reports).
Motorola has the deep pockets and technical depth to recover from such a
glitch. It's doubtful that CETI will.

The CETI case is an illustration of the difference between hawking software
or early transistors and a device based on an immature technology with
unknown glitches waiting.
>
> . . . apparently without any help from Mills or his associates.
>
>My point exactly. Imagine how many more might have done it if Mills
>understood business.

MC: Are you really sure he doesn't? He's done a good job of attracting
capital and establishing a presence in Princeton so far.

Mills would be one of the most famous, richest, and
>influential people on earth. He would have given the keynote address at the
>APS. People might actually take his theory seriously.

MC: Don't jump to conclusions. The game is far from over.

> Mills hasn't published every last detail of all of his devices
> and compounds, but then surely you and your grandfather didn't
> publish every last detail about all of your products either?
>
>Yes, we did. All businesses always do. When you sell developer's kits and
>products, you tell the world everything  about your product.

MC: Mills, in furnishing samples of hydrino hydrides, is doing just that.
But you have to have a prepared mind to understand what you have.

> Your
>competitors reverse engineer your products, and they hire away your
>employees. They learn more from hands-on reverse engineering than they
>would from a stack of textbooks and patents.

MC: Yes indeed. Reverse engineering is a marvelous education, but it take a
special kind of intelligence to do it.

Success engenders competition.
>But that cannot be helped, and it is a minor problem. The greatest threat
>to your success are the mistakes you make yourself, and your own hubris.
>The only protection from competition is to keep running, keep improving
>your product, and keep your employees and customers happy.


MC: Which is exactly what Mills plans to do, if you read his business plan.
He knows perfectly well that his patents will run out, and all he gets is a
head start. There is a key item on the Website, a little graph of the energy
yield as a function of the degree of collapse of the hydrinos. It's very
clear that Mills' dreams of glory are dependent on operating reactors that
produce multiple stages of collapse. I don't know how hard that is to do. It
might be a matter of know how and eventually trade secrets.

In a matter of short time, people will duplicate the gas reactors once they
really believe they exist, like transistors and atom bombs. But they might
not be very good, and only the reactors built with BLP's advancing know-how
will show the real good performance.

After the basic patents on color television and color picture tubes expired.
RCA was able to sell to the big Japanese electronics companies expensive,
first-class licenses in exchange for access to the Sarnoff laboratories and
the manufacturing plants. People I knew in the picture tube plants
complained of Japanese visitors going through, photographing everything. I'm
sure they paid well for the privilege.

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 27 21:05:47 1999
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Mike Carrell asks:

	MC: Estrangement from who? Scott?

Scott, Miley, Miles, several Japanese scientists and apparently anyone else
remotely connected with CF. 


	Considering the machinations of Park and Zimmerman, I can
	sympathize with him. This doesn't make him asocial, he just
	sees another strategy he is pursuing. He has nothing to gain
	from the CF camp.

He has nothing to lose. Park and Zimmerman will attack him whether he
associates with CF scientists or not. He might gain allies, help, knowledge
and credibility. No other scientists have observed the excess heat effects
he claims.

I wrote, "Mills claimed that he had effective, large-scale excess heat from
gas cells many years ago."

	MC: I'm not sure this is literally true.

I am sure it is -- I was there. The claims were made to me, in person, and
during lectures by people from Thermacore at MIT and elsewhere, and on the
CBC documentary. They repeatedly said they had reliable, high sigma, high
heat reaction, well above the limits of recombination. They made similar
claims several times, and they kept saying they would come out with a
commercial unit "next year." I have been following their announcements, and
I have never heard that they retracted, but now it appears they are working
on other things instead of heat. Perhaps that is an oblique retraction. In
any case, they cried wolf too often for me. Crying wolf and missing
deadlines without explanation destroyed their credibility.


	>Assuming this was true, he should have
	>demonstrated those cells in public and at venues like the APS.

	MC: An assumption, Jed, leading to an unwarranted conclusion. . . .

I assumed they were telling the truth at MIT and to the CBC. Perhaps that
was an unwarranted assumption.


	>My point exactly. Imagine how many more might have done it if Mills
	>understood business.

MC: Are you really sure he doesn't? He's done a good job of attracting
capital and establishing a presence in Princeton so far.

No, he has done a terrible job. If one-tenth of what he claimed years ago
is true, then by now he should have attracted a billion, yet he is still
screwing around in the millions. On the other hand, if the claims were
false, then he has done a wonderful job covering up his previous statements
and I pity the people who invested in him.


	MC: Don't jump to conclusions. The game is far from over.

Over?!? It has not even begun, thanks to this insane secrecy. Or perhaps
the claims faded away years ago . . .


	MC: Mills, in furnishing samples of hydrino hydrides, is doing
	just that. But you have to have a prepared mind to understand
	what you have.

I did not have to have a prepared mind to understand the calibration curves
displayed at MIT years ago!!! Hydrino samples are waste of time. Show
people that performance and they will bring you truckloads of money.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 27 22:21:10 1999
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From: Chuck Davis <roshicorp ROSHI.com>
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I just received this. I have no idea why. The M. Twain name seems familiar,
but that's all I can figure.

*** Forwarded message, originally written by _M.Twain_, on 27-Mar-99 ***

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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 99 12:04:13 +0300 
From: Philip Kanarev, Krasnodar, Russia
Organization: KUBGAU 
To: Millennium Twain <muse ethos.co.nz>

Parameter of  common  power  efficiency
Plasma-electrolysis reactor N 3

     The theoretical accounts show, that if for want of formation of 
atom of hydrogen the electron will be delayed at the second power level, 
for want of consequent synthesis of one litre of water will be allocated 
75465.76 kJ of energy, and if the electron will be delayed at the third 
power level, 55562.4 kJ.

     For definition of a common parameter of efficiency it is necessary 
to know the costs of energy of destruction of molecules of one litre of 
water for want of it a plasma electrolysis. Is allowable, that such 
costs of energy are not known to us yet and we shall take for a basis 
the costs of energy of expansion of one litre of water on hydrogen and 
oxygen for want of best modern electrolytic technologies.

     One litre of water is contained 1222.2 litres of hydrogen, and best 
modern electrolytic technologies spend for deriving of 1000 litres of 
this gas 4 kWh. Therefore, (1222.2È4) = 4.9 kWh or 4.9È3600 = 17640.0 kJ 
is spent for deriving of hydrogen from one litre of water. This 
magnitude of energy can be taken for a basis for want of account of a 
common parameter of efficiency plasma-electrolysis of process. Maximum 
it the magnitude will be in case, when the electron for want of 
formation of atomic hydrogen will be delayed at the second power level: 
K1=75465.76/17640.0=4.28.

     The smaller magnitude of a common parameter of efficiency will be 
received in that case, when for want of synthesis of atom of hydrogen an 
electron will be delayed at the third power level. The common parameter 
of efficiency in this case will appear by such: K2=55561.4/17640.0=3.15.

     If we carefully measure all component of common energy generated 
plasma-electrolysis by process, we shall receive a parameter of 
efficiency in an interval 3.15... 4.28. Such outcome is predicted by  
the theory. And what gives experiment?

     In this experiment the reactor N 3 was adjusted on gas-steam 
operational mode and is supplied with the heat exchanger for 
condensation a pair. The velocity of an output of gas after condensation 
a pair was measured with the help of  anemometer. For want of it the 
cost of a cooling liquid (water) and modification of its temperature, 
and also time and the indications of gears  of electrical energy was 
fixed.

Outcomes of experiment:

1- duration of experiment, seconds... 300.
2-magnitude of cooling water, gr... 8867.
3- temperature of water  input in the heat exchanger ...24.0.
4- temperature of water draw from the heat exchanger...29.0.
5- residual of temperature of water...5.0.
6- output of gases (hydrogen) under the indications of the anemometer, 
liter ....21.8.
7-magnitude of revolutions of the disk of the counter of the electric 
power during experience, about....25.5.
8-magnitude of the electric power under the indications of the counter, 
kJ....153.
9-the indications of the voltmeter, Volt...220.
10-the indications of the ammeter, Ampere...1.77.
11-magnitude of the electric power under the indications of the 
voltmeter and ammeter, kJ...116.7.
12- energy which is loiter on heat of cooling water, kJ ...185.0.
13-energy of obtained hydrogen, kJ...278.8.
14- the sum of energies generated by the reactor, kJ...463.8.
15- parameter of efficiency of the reactor under the indications of the 
counter... 3.1.
16- parameter of efficiency of the reactor under the indications of the 
voltmeter and ammeter... 4.0.
17 - quantity  of the electric power for deriving of one cubic meter of 
hydrogen, under the indications of the counter of the electric power 
kwh/m^3...1.9.

     Note: the hydrogen received after condensation a pair, can contain 
impurities of other gases: oxygen and ozone, and it is possible also of 
helium (if there is cold fusion), but we did not manage to conduct such 
analysis, therefore magnitude of energy 278.8 kJ is subject to 
clarification.

     Have remained not taken into account: energy of oxygen allocated in 
an anode cavity of the reactor; external power losses (the heat 
exchanger had not a thermal insulation), and also energy of a light 
radiation. By remaining kinds of the not taken into account energy (the 
noise, high-frequency electrical oscillations) is possible to neglect.

     So, the common parameter of efficiency plasma-electrolysis of 
process obtained experimentally, has appeared in an interval of 
significances, predicted by the theory. It is important at that, that 
the costs of energy of deriving of one cubic metre of hydrogen in this 
case decrease almost twice.

Best wishes Ph. Kanarev.


Who knows????


-- 
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    RoshiCorp ROSHI.com \   /     \_/   `-'     \   /       \     /
           \   /         `-'                     `-'         \   /
            `-'                                               `-'
http://www.post-trauma.com/roshi.html
http://www.Starsaga.com/biofeedback.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 28 06:32:51 1999
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From: "Ed Wall" <ewall infinite-energy.com>
To: "Vortex" <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: off-topic  Re: Very sorry about the genoside . . .
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:33:49 -0500
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Hamdi,

It's easy to condemn outrageous crimes and not easy to find solutions.  We
cannot know that this most recent series of massacres was not triggered by
the perceived need to perform the atrocities before the U.S. troops arrive.
 I profess no expertise, but I know better than to thank politicians for
solving problems that are often connived for some slight personal
advantage.  

President Clinton has tapped into the patriotism of a great nation,
unfortunately not his own.  It is the Russians who are signing up by the
thousands with the intent of fighting U.S. troops in Yugoslavia.  From
Vladivostok:

http://vn.vladnews.ru/1999/current/text/news3.html

Ed Wall

> From: hamdi ucar <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
> To: vortexb-l eskimo.com
> Subject: Very sorry about the genoside on going at Kosovo
> Date: Saturday, March 27, 1999 6:05 PM
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> According CNN, a full scale genocide and burn down of Kosovo villages are
currently operated by serb military forces. I believe this is occurring.
> 
> I am very sorry about hearing this. I am writing this because I think it
is not a political but a humanitarian issue. I am supporting NATO campaign
to stop this. I think anybody and any organization in the world capable to
do something to stop this violence should to act. I should thanks to US
nation and its president and to other NATO allies to their efforts and
being sensitive to this crime.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> hamdi ucar
> 


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 28 08:48:54 1999
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From: Tstolper aol.com
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Vince,

You mentioned a few days ago that you had some photos of last October's run
and offered to send a couple.  

The one you put up as a JPEG email attachment as a test displayed just fine,
thanks again.  I'd be interested in seeing more, if it isn't too much trouble.

In particular, I wonder if you have a photo of a control run comparable to the
active run.  (You described the one image you sent as an active H2 with K
run.)

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 28 13:41:43 1999
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Subject: Jed Rothwell's story
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That's a strange story all right. Is the Dept of State's CF conference
still on for April 20?


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 28 13:42:01 1999
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From: thomas Malloy <temalloy ix.gen.com>
Subject: Gary Taube
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     NPR's Market Place program had an interview on Wednesday with cold
fusion debunker Gary Taube. He ascerted that there was no evidence to
believe that cold fusion was possible and compaired a belief in the
possibility of CF producing any energy to a belief in God. For almost no
effort, there was an infinite payoff.

     This really put my nose out of joint. I wrote them a nasty Email. I
mentioned Taube's appearance on NPR's Science Friday during which a
scientist called him a flack, some thing that is there to confuse the
issue.

     I pointed out to them that there are rare isotopes in the electrodes
that weren't there before. I also mentioned the upcomming conference that
the Dept. of State is sponsoring, and Anthony Sutton's book. Does anyone
know of any other evidence for energy production by CF? I know about CETI's
operation of the Patterson Cell, the LENT reactor and Paul Brown's work.


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 28 13:44:18 1999
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>, William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
Subject:  long distance charges for Internet Access  !!  Is this true ???
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Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 02:49:45 EST
From: MKSBoysal aol.com

<<      If you DON'T complain to Congress immediately then it will vote in two
weeks to charge us at the rate of a long distance telephone call every time we
access the Internet even if we call in on a free local access number.  We tax
payers already have paid for the development and maintenance of the Internet
and commercial companies already pay for it's use and they already charge us
for their services on the Internet.  If we allow the government to charge us
for what we already pay for and own then our Patriotic communications will
essentially be stopped.   Then we will not be able to learn in time what our
evil government is planning next and perpetrating against us.  We will have no
defense.
 
    Please contact your Congress persons at the numbers below.
 
 USCMike1
 
 
 Date:	3/27/99 8:50:11 AM Pacific Standard Time
 From:	lclight webtv.net (Laura Light)
 
 To all E-mailers,
 The House has a bill set up for a vote ASAP on whether to charge long
 distance charges for Internet access even if you dial-up locally.  
 
 This is something that affects each of us.  Please read and forward: 
 Congress will be voting in less than two weeks. CNN stated that 
 the Government would, have 2 weeks time, decide to allow or not 
 allow a charge to your phone bill equal to a Long Distance call 
 EACH time you access the Internet.The address is 
 http://www.house.gov/writerep/
 
 If you choose, visit the address above and fill out the necessary 
 form!  If EACH one of us, forwards this message on to others in a 
 hurry, we may be able to prevent this injustice from happening!
 
 PLEASE PASS THIS ON!!!
 Mike HaresnapeCounty Extension Agent-Agriculture
 K-State Research & ExtensionKingman Countymharesna oz.oznet.ksu.edu
 
  >>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 28 14:10:10 1999
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Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:05:40 -1000
Subject: long distance charges <-- "pass along" virus!
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick highsurf.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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To everyone:

 >>>>>   PLEASE PASS THIS ON!!!   <<<<<<<<


That is the official characteristic IDENTIFIER STRING of a "pass-along"
virus. 

It is nothing but spam, a joke, a "head virus", a waste of time. There is no
bill, no vote, no nothing. It's nothing but damage to people and bandwidth
on the internet perpetrated by some petty sociopath. Please stop cooperating
with it!

Do ***NOT*** pass it along! If it ever says "pass it along", DON'T!

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 28 14:19:08 1999
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thomas Malloy wrote:
> 
. Does anyone
> know of any other evidence for energy production by CF? I know about CETI's
> operation of the Patterson Cell, the LENT reactor and Paul Brown's work.

Tom,

Yes, much evidence exists which can be found in my two recent reviews of
the field.  The  claims by Drs. Case and Arata are also being
duplicated.

 “A Review of the Cold Fusion Effect”, E. K. Storms, J. Sci. Exploration
10, #2 (1996) 185 (full text in: http://www.jse.com/storms/1.html). 

 “Cold Fusion Revisited”, E. K. Storms, Infinite Energy , 4, #21 (1998)
16.

Indeed, Taubes is worse than a flack.  He is a person who distorts the
truth to make a buck.  I would call him a conartist.

Ed Storms

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 28 14:24:54 1999
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From: Chuck Davis <roshicorp ROSHI.com>
To: Rick Monteverde <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:27:22 -0800
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Subject: Re: long distance charges <-- "pass along" virus!
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Yes, Rick, but there was *no exe attachment* to this file!

On 28-Mar-99, Rick Monteverde, wrote:
>To everyone:

> >>>>>   PLEASE PASS THIS ON!!!   <<<<<<<<


>That is the official characteristic IDENTIFIER STRING of a "pass-along"
>virus. 

>It is nothing but spam, a joke, a "head virus", a waste of time. There is no
>bill, no vote, no nothing. It's nothing but damage to people and bandwidth
>on the internet perpetrated by some petty sociopath. Please stop cooperating
>with it!

>Do ***NOT*** pass it along! If it ever says "pass it along", DON'T!

>- Rick Monteverde
>Honolulu, HI


-- 
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   /   \           .-.                                 .-.           /   \
  /     \         /   \       .-.     _     .-.       /   \         /     \
-/--Chuck Davis -------\-----/---\---/-\---/---\-----/-----\-------/-------\--
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           \   /         `-'                     `-'         \   /
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http://www.post-trauma.com/roshi.html
http://www.Starsaga.com/biofeedback.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 28 14:34:33 1999
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*** Forwarded message, originally written by Si Ja on 28-Mar-99 ***
From: Si Ja <sija cyberus.ca>

Did some digging, and came up with this, from
http://www.house.gov/barr/special.htm :

Internet Long-Distance Fees - Many constituents have contacted us to express
concern that Congress is considering a bill that would charge a long-distance 
fee to access the Internet.  There has been some confusion regarding this 
issue.  Congress is not currently considering legislation that would impose 
such a fee on Internet users.  This confusion seems to have stemmed from a
proposal recently considered by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC),
regarding whether local or federal authorities should have jurisdiction over
telephone calls made through Internet Service Providers (ISPs).  The FCC has
stated, it "has no intention of assessing per-minute charges on Internet 
traffic or of making any changes in the way consumers obtain and pay for
access to the Internet." Consumers should not be affected by this decision,
because ISPs are charged a flat rate for long-distance service.  Please be
assured that I will continue to pay close attention to this situation.

js


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-/--Chuck Davis -------\-----/---\---/-\---/---\-----/-----\-------/-------\--
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http://www.post-trauma.com/roshi.html
http://www.Starsaga.com/biofeedback.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 28 14:57:02 1999
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All,

In this message, Nobel laureate Brian Josephson assaults science bigot 
Peter Zimmerman of the APS,  provides support for J. Benveniste, and 
stays (somewhat) neutral on cold fusion. A good man. We'll get him 
properly informed on cold fusion too....

Gene Mallove


Subject:     biters bit?
Sent:        3/24/19 4:51 PM
Received:    3/28/99 5:35 PM
From:        Brian Josephson, bdj10 cam.ac.uk
To:          Zimmerpe acda.gov

Dear Dr. Zimmerman,


        I am always fascinated by the way people such as yourself (e.g.
Steven Weinberg) are so confident that phenomenon X (telepathy, cold 
fusion;
you name it) just _cannot_ occur, and consider that anyone who says they
might occur must be denounced and suppressed.  You may well be right about
cold fusion, but in the Cavendish we have been looking into Benveniste's
claims on high dilutions, which people in the past have put into a similar
category, and it looks odds on that this at any rate is going to become a
severe embarrassment for the denouncing classes before very long.  See

http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/water.memory/milgrom.html

for some recent developments; there was also detailed commentary, calling
for Benveniste to be allowed to publish his researches in the regular
journals, in the French Le Quotidien du Medecin (Mar. 18th., page 14).  
This
was on the Independent's web pages at the time, but as they don't have an
archiving system set up as yet I mirrored their article, and also the 
letter
they published a few days later, on our own web server at the Cavendish. 
See also

http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/lectures/benveniste99.html

for details of the lecture. 

Yours,

     (Prof.) Brian Josephson

 * * * * * * *      Prof. Brian D. Josephson :::::::: bdj10 cam.ac.uk
* Mind-Matter *   Cavendish Lab., Madingley Rd, Cambridge CB3 0HE, U.K.
* Unification *  voice: +44(0)1223 337260/337200 fax: +44(0)1223 337356
*   Project   *         WWW: http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10
 * * * * * * *

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 28 15:22:18 1999
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Hi Thomas et al!

Thomas Malloy had written;
>  NPR's Market Place program had an interview on Wednesday with cold
>  fusion debunker Gary Taube. He ascerted that there was no evidence 
>  to believe that cold fusion was possible and compaired a belief in
>  the possibility of CF producing any energy to a belief in God. For 
>  almost no effort, there was an infinite payoff.
>
>  This really put my nose out of joint. I wrote them a nasty Email. I
>  mentioned Taube's appearance on NPR's Science Friday during which a
>  scientist called him a flack, some thing that is there to confuse 
>  the issue.
>
>  I pointed out to them that there are rare isotopes in the electrodes
>  that weren't there before. I also mentioned the upcomming conference 
>  that the Dept. of State is sponsoring, and Anthony Sutton's book. 
>  Does anyone know of any other evidence for energy production by CF? 
>  I know about CETI's operation of the Patterson Cell, the LENT reactor 
>  and Paul Brown's work.

Interesting that the confusion still persists about what cold fusion
actually means and why there still isn't a self-sustaining unit...it is
exactly like the quest for free energy, where no self-sustaining working
unit that everyone can test, duplicate or buy outright has been
produced.

Is the goal of cold fusion experimenters that of transmutation without
the use of high energy cyclotron bombardment OR is the goal that of
anomalous heat production?

I understand and appreciate all the time and effort that has been
devoted to the study of cold fusion (which parallels the quest for free
energy in many ways) but still, I cannot see cold fusion (for years now)
as anything more than a chemical battery which eventually requires that
the materials be replaced, yet not having produced sufficient useful
power during its lifespan (of heat production) to repay the construction
or replacement costs.

At one of his low level energy conferences a few years ago, John Bockrus
told me that he found the transmutations far more intriguing than the
heat production and that if he could, he would prefer to devote the
remainder of his life to studying just that effect.

Also at one of those conferences, the 2nd one I believe, Ken Shoulders
showed how the production of charge clusters in his experiments produces
almost identical elemental 'dirt' as that reported in the many cold
fusion tests.  

At the time, I was surprised at the almost complete lack of interest and
response to this sweeping discovery among the participants and said so
to Ken.  It struck me that he was considered an 'outsider' (as was I
though invited personally by Dr. Bockris for reasons he and I both know)
and so Ken's views were not worthy of consideration, therefore do not
respond or show interest publicly.

This is a typical view I have experienced on occasion with academics in
packs, though when alone, they do not hesitate to corner you requesting
additional information, just don't let the others know..<g>...some of
them are even decent folk, giving you a business card and asking you to
keep in touch, PRIVATELY....a total shame they must take such views for
fear of condemnation by association with unorthodox views which over
time DO become absorbed into orthodox thinking.

>From what Ken had presented, it pointed to the realization that charge
clusters (bundled electrons) were the CAUSE of the anomlous heat
production in cold fusion experiments.

I see this 'want to believe' syndrome everywhere in the free energy
community...I experience it myself but not to a degree that no proof is
ever required when a claim of a working unit is made.  Concepts,
theories, ideas are fine, but a claim of successful operation demands
proof, if they can't or won't provide such proof, then go away.

In most of the reports I have read, there is low level trasmutation
going on which produces heat as a side effect.  The idea as I understand
it, is to tap into that heat and use it for practical purposes.

However, as Gene Mallove pointed out to me, the reaction cannot
self-sustain for long periods because the pure elements initially used
become contaminated due to the transmutations.

Because of that, the reaction cannot continue on its own and the heat
production quenches once the contamination sufficiently corrodes the
original pure materials.

That is exactly what happens in a battery, the charge capacity
(analogous to heat production) diminishes as the plates become corroded
or overcome with sulfates (analogous to transmutation contamination).

So, the bottomline is that like the quest for free energy which hasn't
produced a working self-running device that will sustain an outside
load, so too has cold fusion failed in that respect.

The outside world, consumers, businesses, and investors, looks only for
what works, RELIABLY, not in unending reports of minutia interesting
only to purists and those so close to the work as to not see the forest
for the trees, wanting to believe so badly that any questions regarding
the validity of cold fusion as offering a new source of reliable energy
is treated as blasphemy and requires attack.

There are many interesting anomalies but as I see it, without the
transmutation effect, you don't get the anomalous heat.  

With the transmutation effect, the elemental pollution eventually kills
the effect.

So, its a no win situation unless you can learn to transmute elements on
a scale large enough to pay for the process and gain a profit OR learn
to transmute into elements which see-saw back and forth with other
elements that do NOT completely quench the heat production.

Possibly producing a stepped reduction of heat as the units age and the
contamination goes through levels of senescence, such a design would
simply degrade in power over time, much like what happens now...<g>..

My favorite critic is Don Lancaster, who often lambastes KeelyNet in his
column though he still doesn't get it that we are simply looking for
working devices, not claims.  In that process, we look for theories,
anomalies, new concepts or ideas and discussions which could lead to
correlations that in turn will lead to a working hypothesis and
experiment.

That is all that people are wanting and asking for.  Show us a working
device that economically does work and that we can buy and test.  One
that proves the claim, without all the reports of minutia in countless
experiments, yet none of which has resulted in a device that others can
buy and use.  

Am I in error on this?  IS there a self-sustaining cold fusion device
that does useful work available?  And that produces sufficient energy to
compensate for the purchase price of the unit?

If not, then what is the argument?  IMO, it is delusional to continue
claiming results which are not proveable with working hardware that can
be demonstrated publicly.  

I would LOVE to see a cold fusion cell, that once assembled and
initialized, would produce steam or heat which could be converted
thermo-electrically for one year or MORE.  But that is not the case and
every experiment I have seen shows no hope of this.

Consider the logic of WHY they won't work (barring some great
discovery);

  1)  Heat is produced ONLY when then pure elements inside transmute
  2)  Once the pure elements are contaminated, the heat stops
  3)  you cannot have heat without transmutation

therefore, it won't work in a practical sense.

It's quite simple, cold fusion researchers and proponents,  MUST, like
those in the quest for free energy, produce a working self-sustained,
economically viable device.

At this time and since the original Pons/Fleischman release, cold fusion
remains all theory based on reports of minutia until a self-sustaining
working device is developed, tested, then independently tested and shown
to do useful work, economically and in a way superior to other chemical
methods such as batteries and hopefully soon to be available hydrogen
fuel cells.

Sorry, but I see no way out of this.  

The quest for excess heat through cold fusion is a self-defeating
process so the best bet is to admit it and redirect efforts to what John
Bockris suggested in the first place, focus on practical, large scale
transmutation or go to experiments which offer more promise.  

At the very least, stop making such grandiose claims based on
experiments which my late friend Arthur Coleman called 'lab queens'. 
They work fine under the IDEAL CONDITIONS of a lab, but fail miserably
in the real world.
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 28 15:39:03 1999
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Thomas Malloy asks, "Is the Dept of State's CF conference still on for
April 20?" No. Zimmerman forced a cancellation both at State and at the
Commerce Department. For more information, contact: Thomas.Valone USPTO.gov

- Jed

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>From The Independent  - March 19, 1999.


       The memory of molecules

       Can molecules communicate with each other,
       exchanging information without being in physical
       contact? French biologist Jacques Benveniste
       believes so, but his scientific peers are still
       sceptical. By Lionel Milgrom
        
        
       Jacques Benveniste was once considered to be one
       of France's most respected biologists, until he
       was cast adrift from the scientific mainstream.
       His downfall began in 1988 when he infuriated the
       scientific community with experimental results
       which he took as evidence to suggest that water
       has a memory. His ideas were seized upon by
       homeopaths keen to find support for their theories
       on highly diluted medicines, but were condemned by
       scientific purists. Now, Benveniste believes he
       has evidence to suggest that it may one day be
       possible to transmit the curative power of
       life-saving drugs around the world - via the
       Internet.
        
       It sounds like science fiction and Benveniste will
       have a hard time convincing a deeply sceptical
       world that he is right. Nevertheless, he began his
       campaign last week when he announced the latest
       research to come out of his Digital Biology
       Laboratory near Paris, to a packed audience of
       scientists at the Pippard Lecture Theatre at
       Cambridge University's Cavendish Physics
       Laboratory. Benveniste suggested that the specific
       effects of biologically active molecules such as
       adrenalin, nicotine and caffeine, and the
       immunological signatures of viruses and bacteria,
       can be recorded and digitised using a computer
       sound-card. A keystroke later, and these signals
       can be winging their way across the globe,
       courtesy of the Internet. Biological systems far
       away from their activating molecules can then - he
       suggested - be triggered simply by playing back
       the recordings.
        
       Most scientists have dismissed Benveniste as being
       on the fringe, although there were some famous
       names in the audience last week, including Sir
       Andrew Huxley, Nobel laureate and past president
       of the Royal Society, and the physicist Professor
       Brian Josephson, also a Nobel laureate. Benveniste
       started by asking some apparently childish
       questions. If molecules could talk, what would
       they sound like? More specifically, can we
       eavesdrop on their conversations, record them, and
       play them back? The answer to these last three
       questions is, according to Benveniste, a
       resounding "Oui!" He further suggested that these
       "recordings" can make molecules respond in the
       same way as they do when they react. Contradicting
       the way biologists think biochemical reactions
       occur, he claims molecules do not have to be in
       close proximity to affect each other. "It's like
       listening to Pavarotti or Elton John," Benveniste
       explained. "We hear the sound and experience
       emotions, whether they're live or on CD."
        
       For example, anger produces adrenalin. When
       adrenalin molecules bind to their receptor sites,
       they set off a string of biological events that,
       among other things, make blood vessels contract.
       Biologists say that adrenalin is acting as a
       molecular signalling device but, Benveniste asks,
       what is the real nature of the signal? And how
       come the adrenalin molecules specifically target
       their receptors and no others, at incredible
       speed? According to Benveniste, if the cause of
       such biochemical events were simply due to random
       collisions between adrenalin molecules and their
       receptors (the currently accepted theory of
       molecular signalling), then it should take longer
       than it does to get angry.
        
       Benveniste became the bete noire of the French
       scientific establishment back in 1988, when a
       paper he had published in the science journal
       Nature was later rubbished by the then editor, Sir
       John Maddox, and a team that included a
       professional magician, James Randi. With an
       international group of scientists from Canada,
       France, Israel and Italy, Benveniste had claimed
       that vigorously shaking water solutions of an
       antibody could evoke a biological response, even
       when that antibody was diluted out of existence.
       Non-agitated solutions produced little or no
       effect. Nature said that the results of the
       experiment that produced the "ghostly antibodies"
       were, frankly, unbelievable. The journal itself
       came in for criticism for publishing the paper in
       the first place.
        
       In his Nature paper, Benveniste reasoned that the
       effect of dilution and agitation pointed to
       transmission of biological information via some
       molecular organisation going on in water. This
       "memory of water" effect, as it was later known,
       proved Benveniste's academic undoing. For while
       the referees of his Nature paper could not fault
       Benveniste's experimental procedures, they could
       not understand his results. How, they asked, can a
       biological system respond to an antigen when no
       molecules of it can be detected in solution? It
       goes against the accepted "lock-and-key"
       principle, which states that molecules must be in
       contact and structurally match before information
       can be exchanged. Such thinking has dominated the
       biological sciences for more than four decades,
       and is itself rooted in the views of the
       17th-century French philosopher Rene Descartes.
        
       Nature's attempted debunking exercise failed to
       find evidence of fraud, but concluded that
       Benveniste's research was essentially
       unreproducible, a claim he has always denied. From
       being a respected figure in the French biological
       establishment, Benveniste was pilloried, losing
       his government funding and his laboratory.
       Undeterred, he and his now-depleted research team
       somehow continued to investigate the biological
       effects of agitated, highly dilute solutions. The
       latest results are, for biologists, even more
       incredible than those in the 1988 Nature paper.
       Physicists, however, should have less of a problem
       as their discipline is based on fields (eg
       gravitational, electromagnetic) which have
       well-established long-range effects. If
       Benveniste's claims prove to be true - which is
       far from certain - they could have profound
       consequences, not least for medical diagnostics.
        
       Benveniste's explanation starts innocuously enough
       with a musical analogy. Two vibrating strings
       close together in frequency will produce a "beat".
       The length of this beat increases as the two
       frequencies approach each other. Eventually, when
       they are the same, the beat disappears. This is
       the way musicians tune their instruments, and
       Benveniste uses the analogy to explain his
       water-memory theory. Thus, all molecules are made
       from atoms which are constantly vibrating and
       emitting infrared radiation in a highly complex
       manner. These infrared vibrations have been
       detected for years by scientists, and are a vital
       part of their armoury of methods for identifying
       molecules.
        
       However, precisely because of the complexity of
       their infrared vibrations, molecules also produce
       much lower "beat" frequencies. It turns out that
       these beats are within the human audible range (20
       to 20,000 Hertz) and are specific for every
       different molecule. Thus, as well as radiating in
       the infrared region, molecules also broadcast
       frequencies in the same range as the human voice.
       This is the molecular signal that Benveniste
       detects and records.
        
       If molecules can broadcast, then they should also
       be able to receive. The specific broadcast of one
       molecular species will be picked up by another,
       "tuned" by its molecular structure to receive it.
       Benveniste calls this matching of broadcast with
       reception "co-resonance", and says it works like a
       radio set. Thus, when you tune your radio to, say,
       Classic FM, both your set and the transmitting
       station are vibrating at the same frequency.
       Twitch the dial a little, and you're listening to
       Radio 1: different tuning, different sounds.
        
       This, Benveniste claims, is how millions of
       biological molecules manage to communicate at the
       speed of light with their own corresponding
       molecule and no other. It also explains why minute
       changes in the structure of a molecule can
       profoundly alter its biological effect. It is not
       that these tiny structural changes make it a bad
       fit with its biological receptor (the classical
       lock-and-key approach). The structural
       modifications "detune" the molecule to its
       receptor. What is more, and just like radio sets
       and receivers, the molecules do not have to be
       close together for communication to take place.
        
       So what is the function of water in all this?
       Benveniste explains this by pointing out that all
       biological reactions occur in water. The water
       molecules completely surround every other molecule
       placed among them. A single protein molecule, for
       example, will have a fan club of at least 10,000
       admiring water molecules. And they are not just
       hangers-on. Benveniste believes they are the
       agents that in fact relay and amplify the
       biological signal coming from the original
       molecule.
        
       It is like a CD which, by itself, cannot produce a
       sound but has the means to create it etched into
       its surface. In order for the sound to be heard,
       it needs to be played back through an electronic
       amplifier. And just as Pavarotti or Elton John is
       on the CD only as a "memory", so water can
       memorise and amplify the signals of molecules that
       have been dissolved and diluted out of existence.
       The molecules do not have to be there, only their
       "imprint" on the solution in which they are
       dissolved. Agitation makes the memory.
        
       So what do molecules sound like? "At the moment we
       don't quite know," says Didier Guillonnet,
       Benveniste's colleague at the Digital Research
       Laboratory. "When we record a molecule such as
       caffeine, for example, we should get a spectrum,
       but it seems more like noise. However, when we
       play the caffeine recording back to a biological
       system sensitive to it, the system reacts. We are
       only recording and replaying; at the moment we
       cannot recognise a pattern." "But," Benveniste
       adds, "the biological systems do. We've sent the
       caffeine signal across the Atlantic by standard
       telecommunications and it's still produced an
       effect."
        
       The effect is measured on a "biological system"
       such as a piece of living tissue. Benveniste
       claims, for instance, that the signal from
       molecules of heparin - a component of the
       blood-clotting system - slows down coagulation of
       blood when transmitted over the Internet from a
       laboratory in Europe to another in the US. If
       true, it will undoubtedly earn Benveniste a Nobel
       prize. If not, he will receive only more scorn.
        
       Benveniste's ideas are revolutionary - many might
       say heretical or misguided - and he is unlikely to
       persuade his most ardent critics. Although his
       ideas may seem plausible enough, he will win over
       his enemies only if his results can be replicated
       by other laboratories. So far this has not been
       done to the satisfaction of his many detractors.
        

published in The Independent, March 19th., 1999.

further comment

        

 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 28 18:50:06 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Gary Taube
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 02:45:35 GMT
Organization: Improving
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On Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:35:39 -0600, Jerry W. Decker wrote:
[snip]
>Consider the logic of WHY they won't work (barring some great
>discovery);
>
>  1)  Heat is produced ONLY when then pure elements inside transmute

Not necessarily true, but even if it is, then one should be able to
engineer a device in which the "pure" substances are gradually replaced
as they become contaminated.

>  2)  Once the pure elements are contaminated, the heat stops

Also not necessarily true. In fact in some instances it may be that
strong heat production only begins after certain "contaminants" have
been created.

>  3)  you cannot have heat without transmutation

If Dr. Mills is correct, then this isn't necessarily true either.
>
>therefore, it won't work in a practical sense.
>
[snip]

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 28 19:17:08 1999
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RE Water memory, the electronic transfer of molecular information could be
quite frightening if it's really true. 

Dip your pick-up transducer into a solution of LSD, Prozac or some other
psycho-poison, or a virus (for an antibody reaction) or whatever you want,
and broadcast it at high power. They say these audio-range EM signals
sound/look like noise, so no one would think them suspicious - just more
government transmitter "testing". As crazy as this sounds, if you buy the
premise you buy the bit, as Johnny Carson used to say. I hope this one's
false.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 28 19:56:57 1999
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Hi Robin et al!

Robin van Spaandonk wrote (in >>);
>  1)  Heat is produced ONLY when then pure elements inside transmute
>> Not necessarily true, but even if it is, then one should be able to
>> engineer a device in which the "pure" substances are gradually 
>> replaced as they become contaminated.

>  2)  Once the pure elements are contaminated, the heat stops
>> Also not necessarily true. In fact in some instances it may be that
>> strong heat production only begins after certain "contaminants" have
>> been created.

>  3)  you cannot have heat without transmutation
>> If Dr. Mills is correct, then this isn't necessarily true either.
>
>  therefore, it won't work in a practical sense.
>

not necessarily true...I love it...

To be more specific, the primary issue (as I see it) is that the cold
fusion reaction eventually quenches and requires replenishment, IE (pun
intended), a novel, exotic battery.

>From a practical standpoint;

  1)  Is the the heat produced during that time sufficient to do useful
      work?
  2)  Is the work produced (if any) of sufficient power and duration to
      justify the initial purchase and inevitable replenishment of the 
      components?

I know, it's a prototype and cost comes into play only when working
units move into volume production. But, based on an initial prototype,
one could estimate how volume production would reduce per unit costs.

10 years and counting, as opposed to 300 years and counting for free
energy claimants..<g>...fish or cut bait...in the quest for free energy,
there are numerous approaches, including cold fusion, however, I just
can't see useful power from cold fusion and the inherent component
degradation by virtue of chemical action.  Again, a novel though exotic
battery....

But, its not my field or major interest though I do check in every now
and then when something new pops up...though that is rare.  

I keep hoping I have missed something where someone actually has a cold
fusion cell working that has a long runtime without massive degradation. 

I think the best numbers I'd seen were from the guy from Vernon, Texas,
his name escapes me at the moment...ah, Dennis Cravens...

Is there someone who has achieved long runtime, with useful heat outputs
AND minimal degradation?  

Please tell me where is it posted or in what issue of IE as I would like
to look it up and reference it if there is a proof?  

Thanks!
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 28 23:35:33 1999
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Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 02:39:00 -0500
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From: "Dennis C. Lee" <atech ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: State Dept. conference cancelled
Cc: Thomas.Valone USPTO.gov
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At 05:36 PM 3/28/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Thomas Malloy asks, "Is the Dept of State's CF conference still on for
>April 20?" No. Zimmerman forced a cancellation both at State and at the
>Commerce Department. For more information, contact: Thomas.Valone USPTO.gov

Does Mr. Zimmerman have an explaination as to why he forced the cancellations?

Regards;
Dennis


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 02:00:03 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
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On Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:06:59 -0600, Jerry W. Decker wrote:
[snip]
>To be more specific, the primary issue (as I see it) is that the cold
>fusion reaction eventually quenches and requires replenishment, IE (pun
>intended), a novel, exotic battery.

To be more specific, no one knows for sure what the actual reactions
even are, let alone how to engineer a practical device.
>
>From a practical standpoint;
>
>  1)  Is the the heat produced during that time sufficient to do useful
>      work?

Of course. The time limit that you impose doesn't exist. In the worst
case, one uses a mechanical contrivance (e.g. a tape on rollers) to
continuously replace the "contaminated" part with "fresh" material.
The whole point of interest with nuclear reactions is that they are
roughly speaking a million times more energy dense that chemical
processes (i.e. the "fuel" lasts a million times longer).

>  2)  Is the work produced (if any) of sufficient power and duration to
>      justify the initial purchase and inevitable replenishment of the 
>      components?

See above. If the fuel turns out to be deuterium, then the energy
available from 1 liter sea water is about 1000 times what you got when
that liter of water was formed chemically. 

>
>I know, it's a prototype and cost comes into play only when working
>units move into volume production. But, based on an initial prototype,
>one could estimate how volume production would reduce per unit costs.

Actually I would be more inclined to say that it isn't even a prototype.
An "experimental" unit might be nearer the truth. 

>
>10 years and counting, as opposed to 300 years and counting for free
>energy claimants..<g>...fish or cut bait...in the quest for free energy,
>there are numerous approaches, including cold fusion, however, I just
>can't see useful power from cold fusion and the inherent component
>degradation by virtue of chemical action.  Again, a novel though exotic
>battery....

Unless energy extraction from the ZPE proves feasible, then everything
is a "novel though exotic battery", including IC engines and nuclear
reactors.
[snip]
>Please tell me where is it posted or in what issue of IE as I would like
>to look it up and reference it if there is a proof?  

I think Jed can probably answer this as well as any on Vortex (and
better than I).
[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 03:00:49 1999
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Hi Folks!

Well, get your books out, clean off that workbench and scrounge up
$20.00 to build your own working F/E circuit, check out;

     http://www.keelynet.com/main.htm 

It ain't cold fusion, but come to think of it....<g>....

-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 03:51:48 1999
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On 29/03/99 12:59:12, jdecker keelynet.com wrote :

> Sujet :	 Finally - a Working F/E CIRCUIT!
>  Date :	29/03/99 12:59:12é)
>  From:	jdecker keelynet.com (Jerry W. Decker)

"The device consists of an electronic circuit, constructed from Radio Shack
parts and tuned to a specific resonant frequency that is tuned to the sum
total of all the components, load, wiring and power supply of the circuit. 

Our two anonymous inventors are at this time working on a shareware document
which will provide full details on how to build this and test it for yourself.
They have not attempted to scale it up, though they are fully confident it can
be scaled up and still be self-running."

Hi Jerry,

Interesting informations...., but without details, diagrams and pictures this
is not usable ??
Why you dont' publish all the diagrams, pictures and reproducible testing
procedure so as anyone can reproduce the experiment and valid your claim ?....
As far as I am concerned, I prefer, first to publish on the internet all
detailled diagrams and reproducible experiment with tests results before
announcing an eventual result...

I hope this will be soon and by this way this will give free energy for all
the people...

Best Regards,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email: Jnaudin509 aol.com
Web site:http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 04:02:00 1999
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Hi Jerry,

<< *** GOTCHA *** April Fool!  >>

Congratulation....  :-(
Unfortunately for all people... your good new was an April Fool....

Regards,

Jean-Louis Naudin

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 05:58:20 1999
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Around the world men's thoughts will fly
Quick as the twinkling of an eye.
And water shall great wonders do
How strange. And yet it shall come true.

-Mother Shipton, 16 Century (excerpt)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 06:07:47 1999
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-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 6:57 AM
Subject: Re: Water Memory

Terry,

That was written at a time when people bathed "twice a year whether needed
or not".  :-) Rose Water was a premium product too.

Don't you remember?    :-)

Regards,  Frederick


>Around the world men's thoughts will fly
>Quick as the twinkling of an eye.
>And water shall great wonders do
>How strange. And yet it shall come true.
>
>-Mother Shipton, 16 Century (excerpt)
>
>


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 07:21:36 1999
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From: ron kita <tekcorman yahoo.com>
Subject: Book: Memory of Water
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There is a book on the work of Dr. Beneviste entitled:
"The Memory of Water" by Schiff circa 1998 available
from Amazon.com for $12.80.
Also, the recent patent by retired MIT professor
Keith Johnson is equally interesting....assignee
is Quantum Energy Technologies.
Patent is concerned with catalytically altering
water clusters and pi orbitals.
Best,
Ron Kita
The work of Johnsonn is cover in the recent issue
of New Scientist circa Mar15..article:Water Fuel

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 07:36:44 1999
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From: Tstolper aol.com
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Jed Rothwell wrote that Mills was solely responsible for the estrangement that
grew up between him and the cold fusion community.  Naturally I can't agree
with that, because such estrangements are hardly ever caused by one side only.

In 1991-1992, after Mills first surfaced, he was eager to work with anyone,
including people in the cold fusion community.  In 1993-1994 he wasn't eager
anymore, if memory serves.  He already felt, I think, that his work was being
rejected by the cold fusion community, but I had the impression that he still
hoped to reverse the trend of rejection, even though the various nuclear
explanations for excess heat popular among cold fusioneers were already
causing problems for him in developing his company.  Later on, I think that
the combination of rejection plus problems led him to lose interest in
cooperation with cold fusioneers.

Nevertheless, I'd guess that he'd still be willing to work with anyone who
could show that he or she had successfully done Mills-type experiments and who
agreed with him that the excess heat wasn't being caused by nuclear reactions,
whether coherent or otherwise, or by ZPE.  I don't think that this is just a
theoretical dispute in Mills' eyes.  He knows that the hydrinos exist, because
he has the experimental and observational proof, and I think he doesn't want
to spend any of his time with people who reject that. 

Jed wrote that Mills had been claiming "effective, large-scale excess heat
from gas cells" for "many years."  Jed wrote that he was sure of that because
the claims had been made to him in person "and
during lectures by people from Thermacore at MIT and elsewhere, and on the CBC
documentary. They repeatedly said they had reliable, high sigma, high heat
reaction, well above the limits of recombination."

Recombination doesn't apply to gas-phase cells, and the word "recombination"
shows that Jed was conflating things that happened at different times.

I'm only aware of one lecture by Thermacore at MIT, in December 1992.  I was
there, too, and there was no mention at all of gas-phase cells.  The first I
remember hearing of them was in 1994, when Mills gave some lectures in
Portland, Oregon.  I didn't see the 1993 documentary, but I did see the 1994
documentary, *Too Close to the Sun*, on tape, some time after it was
broadcast, and I don't recall any spectacular claims for the gas-phase cells
then (it was amazing enough that there was a gas-phase cell).  However, I
would agree that Mills is claiming large-scale excess heat from gas-phase
cells now.  I haven't seen any claim for a self-sustaining unit, though.

Jed wrote that BLP kept missing its dates for a commercial product and that
that had destroyed their credibility with him.  That's the same kind of
argument used against the cold fusion community, and as Jed as so often said
himself, it's a poor one, because commercialization is the final stage of a
long road.
   
I agree with Jed that there are potential allies for Mills in the cold fusion
community, but they could realize much of that potential without any
cooperation from Mills, because he has published enough for any skilled
experimentalist to replicate his excess heat work.  If Vince Cockeram can do
it, so can other people.
  
I also agree with Jed that Park and Zimmerman will attack Mills whether or not
Mills has any contact with the cold fusion community.  In this connection,
it's interesting that Zimmerman had heard of Mills but not of McKubre.

Jed wrote that if Mills could show people performance like the calibration
curves presented at MIT years ago, then they would bring him truckloads of
money.  They did.  For someone as frugal as Mills, $10 million was a ton of
money, and he did a lot with it.  If he is to carry out the plans posted on
the BLP website, then he'll soon have to raise a lot more, but I don't think
that will be an insuperable problem for him.

Finally, Jed recognized how impressive Thermacore's presentation at MIT was,
and he urged cold fusioneers to follow up on it.  It's too bad that so few
did.

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 07:54:13 1999
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Subject: Re: Book: Memory of Water
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Vo,

Ron Kita writes:

> There is a book on the work of Dr. Beneviste entitled:
> "The Memory of Water" by Schiff circa 1998 available
> from Amazon.com for $12.80.

Good book.  Schiff is a scientist who worked with Benveniste and knows him
well.  It is written to be accessible to both neophytes and interesting to
others.  Benveniste appeared in the BBC series 'Heretics', which covered a
variety of controversial thinkers.  Methinks the days of smug scientific
authorities may be drawing to a close.

> Also, the recent patent by retired MIT professor
> Keith Johnson is equally interesting....assignee
> is Quantum Energy Technologies.
> Patent is concerned with catalytically altering
> water clusters and pi orbitals.

Don't forget the Monsanto ECA wierdness.  I just saw a videotape that
contains footage said to be from Russian hospitals where the stuff replaces
antiseptic solutions and is used as an actual medicine and in Japan as
plant anti-fungal and anti-parasite spray.  Monsanto produces a brochure
that was reproduced in IE #18, and then threatens legal action against us
for providing free advertising for them.  You tell me, what sense does that
make?  Do you think there might be some powerful interests that have
exerted some pressure, given the non-recurring and low cost of such
technology?  It must be tested.  ECA has a 1997 U.S. patent.

Ed Wall

New Energy Research Laboratory
Cold Fusion Technology, Inc., P.O. Box 2816, Concord, NH 03302-2816
voice: (603) 226-4822    fax: (603) 224-5975    
website: www.infinite-energy.com

"I believe it is better to learn what is probable about important matters
than to be certain about trival ones."
Ian Stevenson

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 09:16:38 1999
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Tom Stolper writes:

	In 1991-1992, after Mills first surfaced, he was eager to work
	with anyone, including people in the cold fusion community.

Never! He has steadfastly refused to associate with people who think that
cold fusion is a nuclear or ZPE effect. I have a paper trail showing this.
The latest example is his memo to Scott Little.


	He already felt, I think, that his work was being rejected by
	the cold fusion community . . .

His work is rejected by all scientists in all communities, and it always
will be, unless he demonstrates the technology is real. Why should he
single out the cold fusion community? It is the only one which will, at
least, ignore the theory and glance at the experiments. That is the best he
can hope for at this stage.


	. . . but I had the impression that he still hoped to reverse
	the trend of rejection, even though the various nuclear
	explanations for excess heat popular among cold fusioneers were
	already causing problems for him in developing his company.

These explanations could not be causing him trouble, because no mainstream
scientists or journals believe the nuclear explanations. No one outside the
circle of cold fusion scientists pays any attention to these theories, so
how could they hurt Mills?


	Nevertheless, I'd guess that he'd still be willing to work with
	anyone who could show that he or she had successfully done
	Mills-type experiments and who agreed with him that the excess
	heat wasn't being caused by nuclear reactions, whether coherent
	or otherwise, or by ZPE.

Why is this agreement necessary? Why does he care what collaborators think
about theory? His insistence is irrational and self-destructive. He will
not find more than a handful of competent scientists in the whole world who
agree with his theories. If he is waiting for such scientists to emerge
before he will collaborate, he will go to his grave waiting.


	I don't think that this is just a theoretical dispute in Mills'
	eyes.  He knows that the hydrinos exist, because he has the
	experimental and observational proof, and I think he doesn't
	want to spend any of his time with people who reject that. 

In other words,  he will suppress his own technology and destroy any
possibility of scientific acceptance or commercialization -- ever, and he
will not spend time with 99.9999999999% of the human race because people
disagree with him. This is insane. These are the actions of a man who is
obsessed with theory and who would destroy himself merely to satisfy his
own ego.


	Recombination doesn't apply to gas-phase cells, and the word
	"recombination" shows that Jed was conflating things that
	happened at different times.

Of course I know the difference and I was not confusing claims. It was a
poorly written sentence. I should have been precise and cited the sources,
but I was not at my office when a wrote that. The presentation was by D. M.
Ernst (Thermacore, Inc.), "Electrolytic Power Generation," MIT, December
1992, and Canadian Broadcasting Company (CBC) documentary, "The Secret Life
of Cold Fusion," June 1993.


	I would agree that Mills is claiming large-scale excess heat
	from gas-phase cells now.  I haven't seen any claim for a
	self-sustaining unit, though.

It does not have to be self-sustaining. A large effect would convince
thousands of commercial companies.


	Jed wrote that BLP kept missing its dates for a commercial
	product and that that had destroyed their credibility with him. 
	That's the same kind of argument used against the cold fusion
	community, and as Jed as so often said himself, it's a poor one,
	because commercialization is the final stage of a long road.

Commercial products are not the issue. Year after year he told us that he
would demonstrate the technology and widen the circle of researchers he
cooperates with. After hearing this five or six years in a row, sometime
around 1997, I gave up on him. I also given up on many cold fusion
scientists who have repeatedly missed self-imposed deadlines to publish
papers or cooperate with others. Many steps short of the final stage --
commercialization -- should be taken. Scientists working in purely academic
fields like astronomy, which will never lead to commercialization, must
also take steps to preserve credibility and enhance their standing. They
must publish papers, cooperate, teach others how to replicate. Cold fusion
scientists should either commercialize their work or promote it by
traditional academic means.

   
	I agree with Jed that there are potential allies for Mills in
	the cold fusion community, but they could realize much of that
	potential without any cooperation from Mills, because he has
	published enough for any skilled experimentalist to replicate
	his excess heat work.  If Vince Cockeram can do it, so can other
	people.

Perhaps they could replicate, but they *are not* replicating. They pay no
attention. Therefore, it is up to Mills to promote his work and attract
people's attention. He must deal with the fact that the world does not
revolve around his ego and his theories. If he does not care what happens,
and he would prefer to die in obscurity, okay, but in that case he should
not complain. One thing is clear after 10 years: He will never develop this
by himself in isolation, or working with a small, closed circle of one or
two companies. He could not do that with $10 million or $100 million. AT&T
could not have developed the transistor in isolation, even though it
brought far more experience and brain power to the job than Mills could
ever muster.


	Finally, Jed recognized how impressive Thermacore's presentation
	at MIT was, and he urged cold fusioneers to follow up on it. 
	It's too bad that so few did.

Several tried to follow up on it but they were rebuffed or ignored. People
ran into a stone wall of non-cooperation and obfuscation, just as they do
with CETI and others (who shall remain nameless to avoid pointless
bickering). For years, I and others put up with this because these people
assured us they would eventually open up and employ new strategies.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 09:30:26 1999
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ron
Could you give us a patent #. 
Thanks 
Ron W.


On 29-Mar-99, ron kita wrote:
> There is a book on the work of Dr. Beneviste entitled:
> "The Memory of Water" by Schiff circa 1998 available
> from Amazon.com for $12.80.
> Also, the recent patent by retired MIT professor
> Keith Johnson is equally interesting....assignee
> is Quantum Energy Technologies.
> Patent is concerned with catalytically altering
> water clusters and pi orbitals.
> Best,
> Ron Kita
> The work of Johnsonn is cover in the recent issue
> of New Scientist circa Mar15..article:Water Fuel
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 09:43:31 1999
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Subject: Re: Chasing Light Leptons
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To: Vortex

I still maintain that Light Leptons, be it the Neutrino-AntiNeutrino or
other Leptons with a rest mass/energy of 0.5 ev (or less)are the key to
CF/OU whether it's Mills' Hydrino or whatever.

It only takes a physically accepted collision between an Electron and a
Proton or Deuteron to form the Light Lepton Pair:

dE = hbar/dt or, 1.6E-19 = 1.05E-34/6.6E-16 sec

will create a 1.0 ev Light Lepton Pair of 0.5 ev each (with rest mass Mo =
0.5*1.6E-19/c^2 = 8.88E-37 kg)possibly with the charge q' phase shifted 90
degrees wrt regular charge.

With relativistic mass Mrel = Mo[(E'/0.5)+1] = Mo/(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2 where Mo =
0.5/c^2 they will be moving at speed-of-light c, mostly.

For a mass spectrometer type detector the Radius R swept, R = Mrel*c/q*B if
Mrel = 100*Mo:

At R = 0.25 meters:
B = 100*8.88E-37*3E8/q*0.25 = 6.66E-7 Tesla or 6.66E-3 gauss. (The Earth's B
field is about 0.5 gauss. :-)

If the "quarks" of the Proton or Deuteron exchange mass/energy with and
absorb these "Fractionally Charged" entities, the whole Quantum Mechanical
picture of the Hydrogen Atom should change and allow for the CF/OU and
Mills' Hydrino and related phenomena.Like low energy "stripping" of
Deuterons etc. :-)

Regards,  Frederick



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 11:33:16 1999
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Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 19:21:04 +0100
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From: David Jonsson <David Bahnhof.se>
Subject: Re: Fusion without fission booster
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At 07:11 1999-03-27 -0500, you wrote:

>    Of course it is, and the US and other governments have been working on
>it for years. It is called inertial confinement. Pellets of frozen deuterium
>oxide, or the like, are dropped into a chamber at the focus point of an
>array of very high powered lasers. When the pellet arrives at that point,
>the lasers are fired and the converging light energy compresses and heats
>the pellet, creating a shockwave that initiates a fusion reaction burst. The
>energy is captured by the surrounding chamber.
>
>    The problem with this, like the Tokomak electromagnetic confinement
>system, is that the energy required to drive the system is greater than that
>recovered in the reaction, and has been so for decades.

It seems like they cannot handle large enough explosions?

I have been thinking about a device that can transform the shock directly
into electricity. Simply have a sperical container covered on the inside
with a piezoelectric material and let explosions take place on the inside. 

This technology could be used to create combustion engines without moving
parts.

David

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 11:34:01 1999
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Subject: Cold fusion reactor wanted
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Tell me which companies who sell these devices?

I guess all I need is the electrodes. Who can sell some?

David


David Jonsson  Phone +46-8-740 02 81         Fax +46-18-24 51 56
Stockholm      Cellular GSM +46-706-339487   E-mail David Bahnhof.se
Sweden         http://www.bahnhof.se/~david  Postgiro 499 40 54-7

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 11:42:13 1999
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Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:43:41 -0500
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At 05:35 PM 3/28/99 -0600, Jerry W. Decker wrote:

(snip)

>I would LOVE to see a cold fusion cell, that once assembled and
>initialized, would produce steam or heat which could be converted
>thermo-electrically for one year or MORE.  But that is not the case and
>every experiment I have seen shows no hope of this.

(snip)


I wouldn't say it's impossible...

Dennis


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thermodynamics. The
objective of this book is to provide results from current research, which
continues at an impressive
rate. It illustrates how the gap between thermodynamics, heat transfer, and
fluid mechanics is bridged.
CONTENTS:
Preface; Progress in Finite-Time Thermodynamics; 1. Optimal performance of
an endoreversible
Carnot cycle used as a cooler (Jincan Chen and B. Andresen); 2. Generalized
power optimization of
regenerative reciprocating Stirling-like heat engines with various heat
transfer mode combinations and
finite non-interactive thermal reservoirs (David A. Blank and Chih Wu); 3.
Finite-time
thermodynamics and generalized thermodynamics applied to heat engines
(Giacomo Bisio and
Francesco Devia); 4. Heating rate limit and cooling rate limit of a reversed
reciprocating Stirling cycle
(David A. Blank Souvik Bhattacharyya and Chih Wu); 5. Design of a
thermodynamically power
optimized irreversible thermionic generator (Souvik Bhattacharyya); 6.
Combined law power
optimization of closed Joule-Brayton heat engine cycle with finite
non-interactive thermal reservoirs
(David A. Blank and Chih Wu); 7. Finite-time thermodynamic analysis of an
irreversible cogeneration
refrigerator (Selahattin Goktun); 8. Dynamic solar space power systems:
finite-time thermodynamic
models (V. Badescu); 9. The maximum cooling rate of an irreversible magnetic
Stirling refrigeration
cycle for a given power input (Jincan Chen and Z. Yan); 10. Performance
characteristics of an
irreversible refrigerator (Mamdouh El Haj Assad); 11. Endoreversible
modeling and optimization of
multi-stage thermal machines by dynamic programming (S. Sieniutycz); 12.
Optimization of
multi-stage thermal machines by a Pontryagin=s like discrete maximum
principle (Z. Szwast and S.
Sieniutycz); 13. Finite-time thermodynamic analysis of a MHD power plant
(Mamdouh El Haj Assad
and Chih Wu,); 14. Optimal thermodynamic processes in finite-time (Alexis
DeVos and Bart Desoete);
15. Trade-offs in weight-sensitive Diesel waste-heat recovery systems (John
B. Woodward); 16.
Finite-time thermodynamics approach for exergy optimization of an
irreversible cogeneration cycle
(Bahri Sahin and Ali Kodal); 17. Heating rate maximization for an
irreversible heat pump with a
general heat transfer law (Ali Kodal); 18. Optimal performance of an
irreversible Carnot engine for
another linear heat transfer law (ZiJun Yan and Li Xuan Chen); 19.
Thermodynamic modeling of
vapor absorption cooling systems (N.E. Wijeysundera); 20. Design parameters
of an irreversible heat
engine with combined heat transfer (L.B. Erbay); 21. Finite-time
thermodynamics: limiting possibilities
of the regenerative systems (A.M. Tsirlin and V. Kazakov); 22. Finite-time
thermodynamic analysis of
a solar heat pump with three heat sources (Goktun Selahattin and Hasbi
Yavuz); 23. A finite-time
analysis of an ideal absorption refrigeration cycle (Brian Agnew, A.
Anderson, T.H. Frost, and R.M.
Tozer); 24. On the power and efficiency of thermoelectric devices (R.Y.
Nuwayhid and F.
Moukalled); 25. Power optimizations of an irreversible Brayton heat engine
with finite heat reservoirs
(Ching-Yang Cheng, S.C. Lee and C.K. Chen); 26. Optimization of a
Brayton-Joule engine subject to
mass transfer limitations due to pressure losses (V. Radcenco, V. Apostol
and M. Feidt); 27.
Comparsion of optimum thermal conductance distributions for an irreversible
Carnot cycle under
different optimization criteria (, A.C. Hernandez, A. Medina, J.M.M. Roco
and S. Velasco); 28. An
irreversible Otto cycle model including chemical reactions (Angulo-F. Brown,
T.D.
Navarrete-Gonzalez, and J.A. Rocha-Martinez); 29., Finite time
characterization of irreversible
thermally driven heat pumps (Massimo Dentice D=Accadia, M. Sasso and S.
Sibilio); 30. A general
model of a combined heat pump cycle and its performance (L. Chen, Y. Bi and
C. Wu); 31. Some
issues in finite-time thermodynamics (P. Salamon) 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 13:22:34 1999
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From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 cwnet.com>
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Subject: Re: Chasing Light Leptons
References: <001801be7a0a$7c064580$d7441d26 default>
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Frederick J Sparber wrote:

> I still maintain that Light Leptons, be it the Neutrino-AntiNeutrino or
> other Leptons with a rest mass/energy of 0.5 ev (or less)are the key to
> CF/OU whether it's Mills' Hydrino or whatever....
> If the "quarks" of the Proton or Deuteron exchange mass/energy with and
> absorb these "Fractionally Charged" entities, the whole Quantum Mechanical
> picture of the Hydrogen Atom should change and allow for the CF/OU and
> Mills' Hydrino and related phenomena.Like low energy "stripping" of
> Deuterons etc. :-)

Outstanding insight if true. Any thoughts on a low budget test of this
hypothesis?

An obvious start could be as simple as placing a potential OU candidate machine
in the path of a neutrino beam and comparing its output before and after.

However, with the possible exception of the Mills reactor, the machines out
there seem to be not stable enough over a long enough period to get an accurate
cross reading. I doubt that Mills is eager to lend one. However, one might get
some encouragement for a more elaborate future setup just by using a hydrogen
filled radio tube if any of the old ones are still around.

I think I remember reading (perhaps from one of Fred's posts ?) that a neutrino
beam generated at the Argonne accelerator was to be directed towards a mine
somewhere in the wilds of ?? maybe Minnesota, where a detector was in operation?

At any rate, now that spring is near, here's a suggestion to any adventuresome
vortexian with a good map, a GPS  and an antique ham radio transmitter.
Go north, young man. Just for the heck of it take along a few magnets and try
410 kilocycles. If your signal jumps way up  on crossing over from LaCrosse we
will know that Fred better get his tux pressed for Stockholm. And if not, take
your rod and reel. Or go back to LaCrosse, which as I remember has more beer
pubs  per capita than any city outside of Bavaria.

Either way, we may be in for a good fish story.

Regards,
Jones

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 14:59:26 1999
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Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:56:18 -0800 (PST)
From: ron kita <tekcorman yahoo.com>
Subject: Memory H20 Patent
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The requested patent for Keith Johnson (MIT) entitled
Water Clusters and Uses thereof is
5800576  note patent cites the running of a
diesel engine WITHOUT air! This is due to pi
orbital bending of the oxygen molecole in water.

Also, you may want to look up my recent patent
 5829420...it explains WHY magnetic fuel conditioning
devices sometimes work and most of the time don t.

The effect of a magnetic on fuel is very discrete
..not linear..small window of treatment.. derived from saddle shaped
curve....gauss plotted on y axis
and unburned hydrocarbons plotted on x axis.
This yeilds a saddle shaped curve.  The lowest 
point of the saddle is the most efficient burn.
Best
Ron

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 15:02:31 1999
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-----Original Message-----
From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 cwnet.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: Chasing Light Leptons

Jones Beene wrote:

Snip
>
>Outstanding insight if true. Any thoughts on a low budget test of this
>hypothesis?

Maybe hiring a couple of Leprechauns? :-)
>
>An obvious start could be as simple as placing a potential OU candidate
machine
>in the path of a neutrino beam and comparing its output before and after.

Based on Lepton Hunting experience so far,I think these things have to be
generated/absorbed "In Situ". The CF/OU -Hydrino results tend to point to
that.
>
>However, with the possible exception of the Mills reactor, the machines out
>there seem to be not stable enough over a long enough period to get an
accurate
>cross reading.

Agreed.

>I doubt that Mills is eager to lend one. However, one might get
>some encouragement for a more elaborate future setup just by using a
hydrogen
>filled radio tube if any of the old ones are still around.

I Think the experiment that Vince Cockeram is running Might support the
Correa PAGD with the added benefit of the Potassium "catalysis".
>
>I think I remember reading (perhaps from one of Fred's posts ?) that a
neutrino
>beam generated at the Argonne accelerator was to be directed towards a mine
>somewhere in the wilds of ?? maybe Minnesota, where a detector was in
operation?

Not me, but you're talking HOT RELATIVISTIC NEWTRINOS up around the Mev
range. The Gallex experiment didn't see anything in the energy range where
the Neutrinos could be "Thermalized" by elastic "Billiard-Ball" collisions.
Even if they are at a few ev they are moving at c, but with a momentum mc ~=
8.8E-37*c ~= 2.6E-28 kg-meters/sec,which isn't going to push a "thermal"
electron around enough to see.
>
>At any rate, now that spring is near, here's a suggestion to any
adventuresome
>vortexian with a good map, a GPS  and an antique ham radio transmitter.
>Go north, young man. Just for the heck of it take along a few magnets and
try
>410 kilocycles. If your signal jumps way up  on crossing over from LaCrosse
we
>will know that Fred better get his tux pressed for Stockholm.

I wouldn't bet on it, and besides I don't travel well. :-)

>
>And if not, take
>your rod and reel. Or go back to LaCrosse, which as I remember has more
beer
>pubs  per capita than any city outside of Bavaria.

I'm all for that,especially if Jacques Benveniste comes up with a "water
memory" fishing lure.  :-)
>
>Either way, we may be in for a good fish story.

How do you "code" water to act like an earthworm and keep it in one place in
a mountain stream?  :-)

Regards,   Frederick
>
>Regards,
>Jones
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 16:41:22 1999
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To: Jerry W. Decker 

Since you asked, I would like to clairfy some of the confusion this
exchange contains.
> 
> Interesting that the confusion still persists about what cold fusion
> actually means and why there still isn't a self-sustaining unit...it is
> exactly like the quest for free energy, where no self-sustaining working
> unit that everyone can test, duplicate or buy outright has been
> produced.

Cold fusion is actually chemically assisted nuclear reactions (CANR) if
you focus on the environment, or low energy nuclear reactions (LENR) if
you focus on the process. In either case, it is a whole new field of
science.  This science can be used to make energy or it can be used to
alter the nuclear environment. Working units are being tested by people
who have the necessary competence.  The situation is not unlike that at
the fringes of biology.  Not every high school kid can, as yet, clone a
sheep, yet we believe cloning is possible.
> 
> Is the goal of cold fusion experimenters that of transmutation without
> the use of high energy cyclotron bombardment OR is the goal that of
> anomalous heat production?

Both are goals along with many paths which have not yet been considered.
 
> I understand and appreciate all the time and effort that has been
> devoted to the study of cold fusion (which parallels the quest for free
> energy in many ways) but still, I cannot see cold fusion (for years now)
> as anything more than a chemical battery which eventually requires that
> the materials be replaced, yet not having produced sufficient useful
> power during its lifespan (of heat production) to repay the construction
> or replacement costs.

The cells presently being used are as you describe. But, as is always
the case, knowledge improves the product. The fact that nuclear
reactions can produce heat at any level without radiation should bring
joy not dismissal. Once a phenomenon has been identified it can always
be amplified.
> 
> At one of his low level energy conferences a few years ago, John Bockrus
> told me that he found the transmutations far more intriguing than the
> heat production and that if he could, he would prefer to devote the
> remainder of his life to studying just that effect.

So would we all were it not necessary to eat and pay the rent.
> 
> Also at one of those conferences, the 2nd one I believe, Ken Shoulders
> showed how the production of charge clusters in his experiments produces
> almost identical elemental 'dirt' as that reported in the many cold
> fusion tests.
> 
> At the time, I was surprised at the almost complete lack of interest and
> response to this sweeping discovery among the participants and said so
> to Ken.  It struck me that he was considered an 'outsider' (as was I
> though invited personally by Dr. Bockris for reasons he and I both know)
> and so Ken's views were not worthy of consideration, therefore do not
> respond or show interest publicly.

Not true of everyone. I do not consider Ken an outsider.  He has
discovered an important phenomenon.  However, it remains to be shown
whether his discovery can be used to explain all CANR. People tend to
try to explain everything with their own models.  Sometimes one
explanation does not fit all. 
> 
> This is a typical view I have experienced on occasion with academics in
> packs, though when alone, they do not hesitate to corner you requesting
> additional information, just don't let the others know..<g>...some of
> them are even decent folk, giving you a business card and asking you to
> keep in touch, PRIVATELY....a total shame they must take such views for
> fear of condemnation by association with unorthodox views which over
> time DO become absorbed into orthodox thinking.

All true and very sad.
> 
> >From what Ken had presented, it pointed to the realization that charge
> clusters (bundled electrons) were the CAUSE of the anomlous heat
> production in cold fusion experiments.

Unfortunately, a lot of the CANR phenomenon is not consistent with Ken’s
mechanism.  This is not to say that his mechanism does not work or is
not operating occasionally under special conditions.
> 
> I see this 'want to believe' syndrome everywhere in the free energy
> community...I experience it myself but not to a degree that no proof is
> ever required when a claim of a working unit is made.  Concepts,
> theories, ideas are fine, but a claim of successful operation demands
> proof, if they can't or won't provide such proof, then go away.

Proof is in the mind of the beholder.  Some people require a proof such
as was in the movie, “The Saint” and others will take the word of a
competent scientist. We all fall somewhere in between.  I take it you
are closer to the “Saint” type.
> 
> In most of the reports I have read, there is low level trasmutation
> going on which produces heat as a side effect.  The idea as I understand
> it, is to tap into that heat and use it for practical purposes.
The heat reaction in heavy-water appears to be a variation on fusion and
produces helium.  This reaction is not generally called transmutation. A
helium producing reaction should go on for a long time before the sites
are completely destroyed.
> 
> However, as Gene Mallove pointed out to me, the reaction cannot
> self-sustain for long periods because the pure elements initially used
> become contaminated due to the transmutations.

Yes, but this can be after the release of substantial energy. For
example, the Case method should go for years.
> 
> Because of that, the reaction cannot continue on its own and the heat
> production quenches once the contamination sufficiently corrodes the
> original pure materials.
> 
> That is exactly what happens in a battery, the charge capacity
> (analogous to heat production) diminishes as the plates become corroded
> or overcome with sulfates (analogous to transmutation contamination).
> 
> So, the bottomline is that like the quest for free energy which hasn't
> produced a working self-running device that will sustain an outside
> load, so too has cold fusion failed in that respect.

You sound like a man who was given an expensive car and then complained
because it was dirty.
> 
> The outside world, consumers, businesses, and investors, looks only for
> what works, RELIABLY, not in unending reports of minutia interesting
> only to purists and those so close to the work as to not see the forest
> for the trees, wanting to believe so badly that any questions regarding
> the validity of cold fusion as offering a new source of reliable energy
> is treated as blasphemy and requires attack.

Perhaps some people are like that but I do not know them.
> 
> There are many interesting anomalies but as I see it, without the
> transmutation effect, you don't get the anomalous heat.
> 
> With the transmutation effect, the elemental pollution eventually kills
> the effect.

Not demonstrated and probably not an important consideration when the
proper method is used. 

Ed Storms

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 18:22:22 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Chasing Light Leptons
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 02:16:55 GMT
Organization: Improving
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On Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:04:30 -0700, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>How do you "code" water to act like an earthworm and keep it in one place in
>a mountain stream?  :-)
[snip]
You don't, you just record the earthworm, then play it back to the fish
:^).

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 18:30:39 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Memory H20 Patent
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 02:23:06 GMT
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On Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:56:18 -0800 (PST), ron kita wrote:
[snip]
>The effect of a magnetic on fuel is very discrete
>..not linear..small window of treatment.. derived from saddle shaped
>curve....gauss plotted on y axis
>and unburned hydrocarbons plotted on x axis.
>This yeilds a saddle shaped curve.  The lowest 
>point of the saddle is the most efficient burn.
Is this "saddle" vertical? (x is usually the horizontal axis).
[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 18:37:49 1999
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Subject: Re: Chasing Trout
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick highsurf.com>
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Robin -

>You don't, you just record the earthworm, then play it back to the fish
>:^).

You jest, but it might be an interesting test of the claim - use any
underwater predator/prey combination where the one is extremely sensitive to
scents of the other in the water. 

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 19:43:42 1999
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-----Original Message-----
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: Chasing Light Leptons

Robin wrote:


>On Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:04:30 -0700, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
>[snip]
>>How do you "code" water to act like an earthworm and keep it in one place
in
>>a mountain stream?  :-)
>[snip]
>You don't, you just record the earthworm, then play it back to the fish
>:^).

My 66 year (as of today, also Horace Heffner and Martin Fleischmann's
birthday) fishing history: 2  small catfish,in a dry stream-bed, speared a 5
lb carp, 3 Salmon  that came to 27 pounds after smoking and canning
1963,caught a 17 inch rainbow trout ca 1965. Total expense at $5.00/hr
probably $5,000.00. :-)

With my luck the worm would probably be off-key. :-)

Regards,  Frederick
>
>Regards,
>
>Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 20:11:01 1999
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Hi, Winston--

>       all molecules are made
>       from atoms which are constantly vibrating and
>       emitting infrared radiation in a highly complex
>       manner. These infrared vibrations have been
>       detected for years by scientists, and are a vital
>       part of their armoury of methods for identifying
>       molecules.

The article I fwd'ed underscores various revelations reported in _Secrets of
the Soil_--is this the effect that’s being approximated by the Sonic Bloom, or
the traditional European farmers who sing specific notes while stirring their
home-made fertilizer mixture?  Dr. Flannigan's experiments confirmed that
colloidal minerals can be vortically stirred into water, resulting in lowered
surface tension (an excellent condition for foliar feeding), then diluted down
to homeopathic amounts with no loss in effectiveness.  I don’t know how that
effectiveness was measured, but the point is that water "remembers" the
minerals' "vibrational signatures".  Similar results--including lowered
surface tension and longevity of plant cuttings--have been reported even
without agitating the water by exposing it to another part of the vibratory
specrtrum, IR from heated minerals.  

It comes down to this question: What is the ratio of significance between
aqueous nutrients as physical chemicals or as information sources, with water
acting as the communicative medium?  To what extent can water be “tuned” to
nutrient’s “frequencies”--thereby conserving the parent sample--rather than
saturated with the nutrients themselves?  (The fewer the dissolved/suspended
solids in a foliar feeding solution, the easier it would be to apply!)  Could
better Sonic Bloom-type tapes be made by stimulating your compost to emit its
audio signature, recording it, and then directing the playback at a vessel in
which water was being stirred?  Only experiments like Flannigan’s will tell.  

--Russ  














From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 20:43:35 1999
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Hi Jean-Louis et al!

You quoted;
<< *** GOTCHA *** April Fool!  >>
>
>  Congratulation....  :-(

Sorry you were taken in...it was a jibe at our own gullibility...wanting
to believe SO BADLY...I too have done this many times...and its hard NOT
to want to believe and just trust what is presented....this is precisely
what we have to get away from...that includes in the cold fusion field,
BTW...lots of semantics, lots of acronyms...but where's the beef?

I certainly hope we aren't all dead when the real thing finally comes
out, whether it be in the form of sustained heat or electricity from a
self-running long duration device...it would be nice to see and test one
just once....seeya!
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

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Subject: Re: Book: Memory of Water
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	Dear Ed, Ron, Vo...

	What is the patent number?

On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Ed Wall wrote:

> Vo,
> 
> Ron Kita writes:
> 
> > There is a book on the work of Dr. Beneviste entitled:
> > "The Memory of Water" by Schiff circa 1998 available
> > from Amazon.com for $12.80.
> 
> Good book.  Schiff is a scientist who worked with Benveniste and knows him
> well.  It is written to be accessible to both neophytes and interesting to
> others.  Benveniste appeared in the BBC series 'Heretics', which covered a
> variety of controversial thinkers.  Methinks the days of smug scientific
> authorities may be drawing to a close.
> 
> > Also, the recent patent by retired MIT professor
> > Keith Johnson is equally interesting....assignee
> > is Quantum Energy Technologies.
> > Patent is concerned with catalytically altering
> > water clusters and pi orbitals.
> 
> Don't forget the Monsanto ECA wierdness.  I just saw a videotape that
> contains footage said to be from Russian hospitals where the stuff replaces
> antiseptic solutions and is used as an actual medicine and in Japan as
> plant anti-fungal and anti-parasite spray.  Monsanto produces a brochure
> that was reproduced in IE #18, and then threatens legal action against us
> for providing free advertising for them.  You tell me, what sense does that
> make?  Do you think there might be some powerful interests that have
> exerted some pressure, given the non-recurring and low cost of such
> technology?  It must be tested.  ECA has a 1997 U.S. patent.
> 
> Ed Wall
> 
> New Energy Research Laboratory
> Cold Fusion Technology, Inc., P.O. Box 2816, Concord, NH 03302-2816
> voice: (603) 226-4822    fax: (603) 224-5975    
> website: www.infinite-energy.com
> 
> "I believe it is better to learn what is probable about important matters
> than to be certain about trival ones."
> Ian Stevenson
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 21:00:14 1999
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At 11:37 PM 03/29/99 -0500, JS wrote:
>
>
>	Dear Ed, Ron, Vo...
>
>	What is the patent number?

Hi John,

US5800576:
<http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05800576__&language=en>

Colin Quinney

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 21:38:23 1999
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Hi Dennis et al!

I had written;
> I would LOVE to see a cold fusion cell, that once assembled and
> initialized, would produce steam or heat which could be converted
> thermo-electrically for one year or MORE.  But that is not the case 
> and every experiment I have seen shows no hope of this.

(snip)

You wrote;
>>  I wouldn't say it's impossible...

I DIDN'T say it was impossible...just that published info to date
indicates it won't succeed because of the degradation of heat production
over time due to contamination by transmutation....a 'heat' battery that
kills itself.
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 29 22:32:31 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Finally - a WORKING F/E CIRCUIT!
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 06:22:21 GMT
Organization: Improving
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On Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:58:14 -0600, Jerry W. Decker wrote:
[snip]
>I certainly hope we aren't all dead when the real thing finally comes
>out, whether it be in the form of sustained heat or electricity from a
>self-running long duration device...it would be nice to see and test one
>just once....seeya!

The funny thing is, I was thinking about just such a device the night
before are going through Paul Browns nuclear battery patent with a fine
toothed comb. While reading the web page, I thought " #$%^& someone's
beaten me to it!"

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

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From: UNIR2B1NM aol.com
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Hi, Ed--

Thanks for your reply.  Sorry to have monitored the discussion tardily,
but...ECA is mentioned in issue 13 of what publication?  I'm very interested
in pulsed water electrolysis--it evidently produces Brown's gas; and if this
set pulsation parameters structures water so as to become disinfective, it
might be because it liberates *negative oxygen ions* (a mixture of - & + would
likely indicate production of mere hydrogen peroxide).  Tx.

--Russ

 

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At 11:53 PM 3/29/99 -0600, Jerry W. Decker wrote:
>Hi Dennis et al!
>
>I had written;
>> I would LOVE to see a cold fusion cell, that once assembled and
>> initialized, would produce steam or heat which could be converted
>> thermo-electrically for one year or MORE.  But that is not the case 
>> and every experiment I have seen shows no hope of this.
>
>(snip)
>
>You wrote;
>>>  I wouldn't say it's impossible...
>
>I DIDN'T say it was impossible...just that published info to date
>indicates it won't succeed because of the degradation of heat production
>over time due to contamination by transmutation....a 'heat' battery that
>kills itself.


   Where was this notion published?  Thanks.

       Mitchell Swartz


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 Vorts:

  An Anomalous SETI Signal? (and good daily site to check)

  http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html

  also 
  http://www.setileague.org/photos/hits.htm#Unsworth

  

  Frequency domain analysis - 
again shown to be a key to the universe.

     Mitchell Swartz



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 30 04:28:34 1999
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From: Tstolper aol.com
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Jed,

You mentioned a few days ago that two years after the dramatic public flights
of the Wright Brothers in 1908, some 500,000 people were working on aviation,
according to SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN.  

Are you sure the typesetter didn't slip in an extra zero there?  Half a
million is an astounding figure.  (Even fifty thousand would be amazing.  I'm
not sure that even high-temperature superconductivity got that kind of play.)

Tom Stolper

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From: "Ed Wall" <ewall infinite-energy.com>
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Subject: Re: Book: Memory of Water
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:21:47 -0500
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The Electro-Chemically Activated (ECA) patent number is
U.S. 5,427,667


Ed Wall

New Energy Research Laboratory
Cold Fusion Technology, Inc., P.O. Box 2816, Concord, NH 03302-2816
voice: (603) 226-4822    fax: (603) 224-5975    
website: www.infinite-energy.com

"I believe it is better to learn what is probable about important matters
than to be certain about trival ones."
Ian Stevenson

----------
> From: Quinney <quinney inforamp.net>
> To: vortex-l eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: Book: Memory of Water
> Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 2:47 AM
> 
> At 11:37 PM 03/29/99 -0500, JS wrote:
> >
> >
> >	Dear Ed, Ron, Vo...
> >
> >	What is the patent number?
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> US5800576:
> <http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05800576__&language=en>
> 
> Colin Quinney
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 30 05:38:01 1999
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Dear Vorts

I'd like to bring some infos reagrding this discussion.

I met both Jacques Benveniste at his lab, and Michel Schiff at the conference
in Cavaillon in January, then later at his home in Paris. Both seems to my
standarts highly respectful people. They don't look crazy, at the opposite
very down to earth. I had a great impression with Benveniste very different of
the media feelings I could get. He is an MD, and he does a very good work,
very carefully. What he is announcing is obviously hard to swallow, that is
the only reason there is so much opposition to his results. He told me that
Charpak, the French Nobel Prize winner (for developping detectors at CERN)
visited his lab. They  conducted blind experiments with highly diluted
products, when Charpak saw the results he turned white! Later he accused him
of fraud....

Michel Schiff worked along with Benveniste in his lab, and confirmed me the
results.

There has been a fear expressed that may be someone might use the technique of
activation of water by electromagnetic signals to produce inverse effects.
Actually something very similar has been developed by Joel Sternheimer who
does something similar, but with music calculated from the proteins using a
patented protocol. This music can have both effects: positive and cure some
desease, or negative, and create a desease! We all know that some musics or
sounds have a peaceful impact on us, whereas some others have an irritating or
uncomfortable effect.

Jean-Paul Biberian

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 30 07:16:52 1999
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Tom Stolper asks, 

	Are you sure the typesetter didn't slip in an extra zero there? 
	Half a million is an astounding figure.  (Even fifty thousand
	would be amazing . . .

It is astounding, isn't it? I got that figure from the retrospective pages
of Sci. Am. a few years ago. In 1911, two and half years after the public
flights, a special issue of Scientific American devoted to aviation
reported that "more than half a million men are now actively engaged in
some industrial enterprise that has to do with navigation of the air."
Other sources bear it out. But it is not unprecidented. It would not
surprise me to learn the two years after the introduction of the
incandescent light or the transistor similar numbers of people were working
in these fields.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 30 08:25:46 1999
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From: "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
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Subject: "Free Energy" (was re: Gary Taube)
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Jerry Decker raised some valid points which have generated a useful flow of
commentary. I have the following addition.

Energy is free already. You are cold? Go chop down the tree in your front
yard and burn it in your fireplace. When your trees are gone, you will have
to negotiate with your neighbor for his trees, and the energy will no longer
be free. The fossil fuel resources are in place, you pay others to place
them at your convenience.

Want a free-energy gadget? You will pay someone for the materials until
someone finds out how to make one from the mud in your backyard (or you will
pay for the mud if you are a city dweller).

Jerry is correct in that the devices and processes in sight all involve
consumables, the question being what they are and what are the
replacement/refurbishment/support costs. As Ed Storms pointed out, there is
no simple answer because there is a whole family of reactions, not just one
F&P effect. These reactions are not sorted out.

The Patterson Cell, for example, consumed the beads by transmutations.
Effectively, the fuel was the coating on the beads, and secondarily the
electrolyte. This may be true of may others. However, if fresh cathodes can
be made of abundant materials, and can be refurbished, then there is an
energy source for the world's needs that is better than fossil fuel and
nuclear reactors. But it won't be "free" because people will make their
livelihood maintaining the system and they must be paid.

Mills' BLP technology has hydrogen as the consumable, all other elements are
catalysts, and hydrogen is in unlimited supply as water. But the reactors
will not be "free" -- at least not soon, as Mills intends to collect
royalties for their use.

There are magic motors which appear from time to time. Some may be valid,
some may self-sustain. But I know of no independent verification of this,
despite beguiling videos. Be assured that these will not be "free" either,
unless someone published plans anyone can build, and this has not been done.
Naudin's experiments with the Newman machine come close, but nothing
commercial.

Of purported ZPF systems I know of, the most plausible is Correa's PAGD. He
claims self-sustained production of energy in an isolated system, but his
has been demonstrated only privately to bonafide investors. He has published
results and videos of the system operating. The electrodes in the reactor
tube are a standard aluminum alloy, which are eroded by the arcs when
operating. Yet they are cheap, can be refurbished, and a (estimated) large
energy yield can be realized before refurbishing is necessary.

One could regard the urge for "free" energy as essentially parasitic, a
desire to cut loose from all dependence on others for existence, to provide
no exchange to others for one's own living. By extension, this then applies
to food, clothing, shelter, and boomboxes.

The better question is whether there are energy sources in sight which can
support an indefinite expansion of earth's population and lifestyle without
destroying the environment. The answer to that is, I think, yes. But they
are not in hand yet.

Mike Carrell


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A couple of "Free Energy" items that Mike Carrell left out.  :-)
FJS

http://www.nrel.gov/



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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 30 13:39:56 1999
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From: UNIR2B1NM aol.com
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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:18:25 EST
To: y2knetmom yahoo.com
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In a message dated 99-03-30 06:22:45 EST, you write:

>> Candace I just wanted to briefly update you on the
>> generators that we have...

Hi, Candace

Tx. for the China Diesel contact info.  It's true that these are durable, and
that diesel fuel stores well, but--

I have another, related Y2K interest that might be of interest to your
network:  I'm trying to track down anyone formerly associated with the now-
defunct Utility Free solar co. so as to obtain the ALCOHOL STILL they
sold--guaranteed to produce 5 gal/hr. of fuel-grade, 180 proof alcohol on the
first run!  It was refined over several years by a Robert Warren of the
California  Alcohol Fuel Producers Assn.  

If Y2K is merely a catch-all phrase for 'irrevocable paradigm shift', and if
the nature of that shift is correctly characterized in Revelations--"...that
thou shoudest destroy them which destroy the earth"--then we'll eventually
have to make our own fuel, anyway and we might consider that unlike fossil
fuels, alcohol oxidation will NOT yield carbon monoxide (unless deprived of
oxygen below a low threshold).  

Alcohol can be made from many kinds of plants, and the byproduct is still
nutritious for people, animals or as fertilizer!  Moreover, gasoline engines,
unlike diesels, will accept alcohol as a direct fuel replacement (after a
minor carburetor modification); and chainsaws don't run on diesel fuel at all!
Of course, alcohol is clean a heating fuel (esp. compared to kerosene), not to
mention its utility as a cleaner/solvent and disinfectant.  

For these reasons, I hope someone might help establish the aforementioned
contacts.

Regards, Russ

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 30 15:04:24 1999
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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:03:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Jerry Wayne Decker <jwdatwork yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: "Free Energy" (was re: Gary Taube)
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Hi Mike et al!

Thanks, I'm not trying to tick anyone off, just that I
am always confused by the end goal with the term 'cold
fusion'.....is the purpose heat production OR is the
purpose transmutation, two quite distinct issues,
despite the fact that the heat appears to RESULT from
the transmutation.

Experiments that are Lab Queens don't have much
practical use to my view unless they can be scaled up
and made reliable in the real world and if something
along that line is happening (real world tests), GREAT,
but I've not seen anything along that line which makes
me question statements that 'it works in the lab'.

At this juncture, everything I've seen points to the
INEVITABLE degradation of the cell as making it a novel
heat battery with the interesting side effect of minute
transmutations (which appears to be the sole cause of
the heat production).

Now it branches from specifically cold fusion to the
broader issue of energy production, where you have put
your finger on the crux of the matter....as long as it
is a consumable we are missing the point of what 'free
energy' is all about, at least IMHO.

That is tapping into natures own inexhaustible forces,
such as the force which keeps the planets orbiting, the
force that causes electrons to orbit in an atom (which
could be a micro version of the macro planetary
orbiting effect), the force that causes the 'quantum
jiggle' of matter, the massive spectrum that bombards
the earth everyday which we could be better focusing
our energies on tapping, as in how to extract this
energy to useful power...as Moray points out, we are
indeed awash in a Sea of Energy.

Based on all the reports I have read, no matter how
wonderfully written, especially in the excellent IE, I
simply see no future for cold fusion as an energy
source when compared even to hydrogen fuel cells or
simple acid batteries.

Hydrogen fuel cells alone are blowing cold fusion plumb
off the map with some companies now working on making
them available for purchase....a proven technology used
by NASA and in other non-space applications....the only
limitation I've seen remains with producing the
hydrogen that will be used in the cells, but Pacheco's
patent would provide that.

Despite all this, my ultimate interest is tapping into
the natural forces...they are omnipresent and its a
matter of time before a breakthrough that would provide
power anywhere, without consuming anything, being
subject only to failure of the components....

What sparked my intial post was the Taube interview,
which I did not see, yet which resulted in people
becoming upset simply because he questioned the
validity of the claim.....

Show a working device under test on 60 Minutes,
Nightline, Good Morning America, etc...and come back 6
months later to check up on the cells success if it is
still working....that would have a greater chance of
clearing up questions about the sustained operation of
the unit when producing excess heat..

For my money, I try to devote my time, energies and
what finances I can to tapping into natural forces...it
IS inevitable.

--- Mike Carrell  wrote:
> Jerry Decker raised some valid points which have
> generated a useful flow of
> commentary. I have the following addition.
> 
> Energy is free already. You are cold? Go chop down
> the tree in your front
> yard and burn it in your fireplace. When your trees
> are gone, you will have
> to negotiate with your neighbor for his trees, and
> the energy will no longer
> be free. The fossil fuel resources are in place, you
> pay others to place
> them at your convenience.
> 
> Want a free-energy gadget? You will pay someone for
> the materials until
> someone finds out how to make one from the mud in
> your backyard (or you will
> pay for the mud if you are a city dweller).
> 
> Jerry is correct in that the devices and processes
in
> sight all involve
> consumables, the question being what they are and
> what are the
> replacement/refurbishment/support costs. As Ed
Storms
> pointed out, there is
> no simple answer because there is a whole family of
> reactions, not just one
> F&P effect. These reactions are not sorted out.
> 
> The Patterson Cell, for example, consumed the beads
> by transmutations.
> Effectively, the fuel was the coating on the beads,
> and secondarily the
> electrolyte. This may be true of may others.
However,
> if fresh cathodes can
> be made of abundant materials, and can be
> refurbished, then there is an
> energy source for the world's needs that is better
> than fossil fuel and
> nuclear reactors. But it won't be "free" because
> people will make their
> livelihood maintaining the system and they must be
> paid.
> 
> Mills' BLP technology has hydrogen as the
consumable,
> all other elements are
> catalysts, and hydrogen is in unlimited supply as
> water. But the reactors
> will not be "free" -- at least not soon, as Mills
> intends to collect
> royalties for their use.
> 
> There are magic motors which appear from time to
> time. Some may be valid,
> some may self-sustain. But I know of no independent
> verification of this,
> despite beguiling videos. Be assured that these will
> not be "free" either,
> unless someone published plans anyone can build, and
> this has not been done.
> Naudin's experiments with the Newman machine come
> close, but nothing
> commercial.
> 
> Of purported ZPF systems I know of, the most
> plausible is Correa's PAGD. He
> claims self-sustained production of energy in an
> isolated system, but his
> has been demonstrated only privately to bonafide
> investors. He has published
> results and videos of the system operating. The
> electrodes in the reactor
> tube are a standard aluminum alloy, which are eroded
> by the arcs when
> operating. Yet they are cheap, can be refurbished,
> and a (estimated) large
> energy yield can be realized before refurbishing is
> necessary.
> 
> One could regard the urge for "free" energy as
> essentially parasitic, a
> desire to cut loose from all dependence on others
for
> existence, to provide
> no exchange to others for one's own living. By
> extension, this then applies
> to food, clothing, shelter, and boomboxes.
> 
> The better question is whether there are energy
> sources in sight which can
> support an indefinite expansion of earth's
population
> and lifestyle without
> destroying the environment. The answer to that is, I
> think, yes. But they
> are not in hand yet.
> 
> Mike Carrell
> 
> 
> 

===


=================================
Please respond to jdecker keelynet.com
as I am writing from my work email of
jwdatwork yahoo.com.........thanks!
=================================
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 30 15:26:09 1999
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Subject: McKubre at APS
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Jed,

What was the gist of McKubre's talk?  Did he get around to the
first-rumored  "cold fusion is real" or the Dallas Morning New's "I'm
thinking about switching fields"?  If the former, did he produce any new data?

Thanks



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 30 15:43:25 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Water Memory
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:41:30 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <37046023.534350779 mail-hub>
References: <199903282328.SM00189 [206.127.240.158]> <3700D5CD.644FD72B@mccir3.crmc2.univ-mrs.fr>
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On Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:46:53 +0200, Jean-Paul Biberian wrote:
[snip]
>patented protocol. This music can have both effects: positive and cure some
>desease, or negative, and create a desease! We all know that some musics or
>sounds have a peaceful impact on us, whereas some others have an irritating or
>uncomfortable effect.
>
>Jean-Paul Biberian
Shades of crypto-sporidium (sp?)! We have had water treatment problems
here in Aus. some months back, where an "infestation" appeared to come
and go sporadically, and led to reports of the infestation being
"cleared" one day, and suddenly it wasn't the next.
A test perhaps?

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 30 17:41:22 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Increasing decay rates
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:38:34 GMT
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Interesting?

http://www.rqm.ch/eng/n990226e.htm


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 30 19:02:15 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Particle in field
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 02:57:39 GMT
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Hi,

When a charged particle follows a circular path in a magnetic field, it
generates a field of its own as a consequence, that is aligned with the
original field. 
Question: Is the orientation of the secondary field such as to help or
hinder the primary field?


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

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From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> When a charged particle follows a circular path in a magnetic field, it
> generates a field of its own as a consequence, that is aligned with the
> original field.
> Question: Is the orientation of the secondary field such as to help or
> hinder the primary field?

Robin, I think the superimposed fields always weaken the net field on
the inside of the circle, and strengthen it on the outside.  This
lower "magnetic pressure" on the inside and higher pressure on the
outside is one way I visualize the force that keeps the particle going
in a circle.  Anyone but Horace want to comment?  :-) (inside joke).

Frank Stenger

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From: VCockeram aol.com
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All,

The watt-hour meter arrived today from Herbach and Rademan.  I spent an hour
or so mounting it on an oak stand I constructed. 
I ran a quick test with an electric iron and the reading I got was right on
the 1100 watts specified on the iron's spec plate.  

Now a mystery:
I connected the high voltage transformer to the wattmeter and ran three tests
at full 120 volt line voltage. (variac was not used)
(1)  high voltage output open circuit, i.e. no load.  input was 12 watts
(2)  high voltage output with a 1/2 inch gap.           input was 60 watts
(3)  high voltage output with a 1/8 inch gap.           input was 40 watts

These spark load tests were conducted in open air between two electrodes
fashioned from number 14 solid copper wire.

I wonder why the smaller spark gap pulls less current.
I also noticed with the high voltage shorted it drew very little wattage. I
didn't run a complete test of this for fear of destroying the transformer but
the rotor speed was less than the open circuit test.
Comments?

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada
702-254-2122

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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:33:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Schaffer <schaffermj yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Particle in field
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> > When a charged particle follows a circular path in a magnetic field, it
> > generates a field of its own as a consequence, that is aligned with the
> > original field.
> > Question: Is the orientation of the secondary field such as to help or
> > hinder the primary field?
> 
> Robin, I think the superimposed fields always weaken the net field on
> the inside of the circle, and strengthen it on the outside.  This
> lower "magnetic pressure" on the inside and higher pressure on the
> outside is one way I visualize the force that keeps the particle going
> in a circle

This is correct. The field strength inside the orbit is always reduced,
regardless of the sign of the charge on the particle.

===
Michael J. Schaffer


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 30 21:11:15 1999
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From: Michael Schaffer <schaffermj yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: H2 w/K glow discharge
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VCockeram aol.com wrote:

>I connected the high voltage transformer to the wattmeter and ran three
>tests at full 120 volt line voltage. (variac was not used)
>(1)  high voltage output open circuit, i.e. no load.  input was 12 watts
>(2)  high voltage output with a 1/2 inch gap.         input was 60 watts
>(3)  high voltage output with a 1/8 inch gap.         input was 40 watts
> 
>These spark load tests were conducted in open air between two electrodes
>fashioned from number 14 solid copper wire.
> 
>I wonder why the smaller spark gap pulls less current.
>I also noticed with the high voltage shorted it drew very little wattage.
>I didn't run a complete test of this for fear of destroying the
transformer
>but the rotor speed was less than the open circuit test.

You are confusing current with power, and real or resistive power with
imaginary or ractive power. The watt-hour meter measures real power. You
also need to understand how a neon lamp transformer operates. It is not like
a typical power transformer.

The neon transformer is built to have a very high internal inductance
(choke) to limit its maximum current to a safe (non-burnout) value. This is
because gas discharges have a much lower resistance once the gas breaks down
than before, and some means has to be provided in the circuit to keep the
current from surging to high levels that would damage the transformer and/or
the discharge lamp. 

At open circuit you measure the power dissipated by the core magnetic
hysteresis and the magnetizing current flowing in the primary winding.

When you short the secondary, the current is limited by the inductance to
some value, probably about 30 mA for a neon tube transformer. Power is the
product of voltage and current. The short circuit has zero voltage, so it
does not dissipate power. However, current flows in both primary and
secondary, more than in the open circuit case, and these currents dissipate
more power than in the open circuit case. The hysteresis loss depends mainly
on the primary voltage and does not change much. Of course, the secondary
current results in a much larger primary current (by the turns ratio), where
the 110 volt AC is still applied. However, because this is inductive
current, the primary current is very nearly 90 deg out of phase with the
primary voltage, and the real or resistive power is zero. In this case the
product of primary volts and amps, the reactive or imaginary power is not
zero. It is commonly expressed as "volt-amps" rather than watts, in order to
distinguish the two. What hapens to imaginary power? It enters the inductor
during one quarter cycle and comes out of it during the next quarter cycle,
for a net power of zero (hence imaginary power).

This is why AC power cannot be measured just by using a voltmeter and an
ammeter, even if they are true rms instruments. A special instrument must be
used that takes voltage-current product in TIME and then averages it.

The shorter spark in air is less resistive than the longer one, so it has a
lower voltage. However, the current in the shorter spark is probably not
much greater than in the longer one, because the current is limited strongly
by the internal inductance. The end result is a lower voltage-current
product, hence less power.
===
Michael J. Schaffer


_________________________________________________________
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 30 21:33:55 1999
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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Particle in field
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 05:29:20 GMT
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On Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:33:15 -0800 (PST), Michael Schaffer wrote:

>> > When a charged particle follows a circular path in a magnetic field, it
>> > generates a field of its own as a consequence, that is aligned with the
>> > original field.
>> > Question: Is the orientation of the secondary field such as to help or
>> > hinder the primary field?
>> 
>> Robin, I think the superimposed fields always weaken the net field on
>> the inside of the circle, and strengthen it on the outside.  This
>> lower "magnetic pressure" on the inside and higher pressure on the
>> outside is one way I visualize the force that keeps the particle going
>> in a circle
>
>This is correct. The field strength inside the orbit is always reduced,
>regardless of the sign of the charge on the particle.

Thanks both. I am more interested in the field outside the circle. IOW
what would the effect be on the current in the coil generating the
primary field?

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

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Subject: Re: H2 w/K glow discharge
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At 11:31 PM 3/30/99 EST, VCockeram aol.com wrote:

>I wonder why the smaller spark gap pulls less current.
>I also noticed with the high voltage shorted it drew very little wattage. I
>didn't run a complete test of this for fear of destroying the transformer but
>the rotor speed was less than the open circuit test.
>Comments?

As Michael said, sounds like yr xfmr has been designed so that the core
will saturate at some safe current level (i.e. like a neon sign xfmr).
This saturation prevents the current from rising any further, even if you
short out the secondary.  So what you have is a constant current
supply...except when it is very lightly loaded.  Probably both the 1/2" and
1/8" gaps were therefore drawing the same current...but the 1/2" gap had a
higher voltage across it....hence the higher power consumption.  Sounds
like a good xfmr for your experimentation...if it's like a neon sign xfmr,
you will not be able to overheat it.

It looks like you are going to be in the <100 watt regime, thus you may
need to correct your watthour meter's readings a bit (if it's like mine).
Try running 25, 40, 60, and 100 watt light bulbs.  Use a pretty-good
digital meter to measure the voltage across the bulb and the current thru
it (ideally you would have two meters so one could remain in the circuit to
monitor current all the time).  Multiply v*i to get the actual power
delivered to the light bulb (this works because a bulb is a resistive load
with unity power factor).  Compare with the watthour meter's result. 


Scott Little 
EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 30 21:39:23 1999
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At 11:36 PM 3/30/99 -0600, I wrote wrote:

>As Michael said, sounds like yr xfmr has been designed so that the core
>will saturate....

On second thought, it's something else besides saturation that happens.
THAT would make the current shoot up...not level off.  hmmmmm.



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 30 21:52:31 1999
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Jed, you wrote:
>        Subject:     Re: News from the APS meeting
>        Date:         Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:46:30 -0500

>They briefly described his (Mills') suborbital electron theory, which most
>scientists find ridiculous.  Nearly all cold fusion scientists I know think it
>is preposterous.

      I am new to Vortex; so I apologize in advance if I step on anybody's toes
with my
comments and for the length of this communication.  I both support
and criticize Mills' theory.  I comment on CF and, most importantly, the
possibility of combining the disciplines.  I finish with some observations in
response to some running discussions within Vortex.

Mills' Theory

A number of years ago, I developed a theory that indicated the
atomic-orbital ground states to be ground states for photon emission only.
Since I could not resolve some of the theoretical problems about
electromagnetic field resorption, I never published and went back to the
books for more education.  (I have a Ph.D. in nuclear, not atomic, physics
and have worked in industry - space radiation effects- for 30 years,
therefore I am reluctant to challenge accepted theory without a solid
foundation.)  I still have not solved my problem.

When I recently encountered Mills' work, I was naturally interested.  His
primary reference (Haus) was claimed to have solved the problem that had
stopped me.  Furthermore, Mills provided some good models and
documentation for the existence of suborbital levels occurring in nature. With
this incentive, I revisited my theory.

Since I had never had enough certainty about my model to investigate the
implications of suborbital energy states, I had not calculated any levels.
While my theory is quite different from Mills', they both must provide the
same known orbitals.  My theory also agrees with Mills' for, at least, the
first suborbital level.  I have not yet taken the time to verify the lower
levels
or the method that he has proposed for reaching the 1st suborbital.

Now the bad news.  The fact that I disagree with many of Mills' physical
interpretations is not a real big problem.  We are both trying to put together
a picture that most physicists feel cannot be done.  However, Haus' paper,
which was supposed to overcome the stumbling block of why bound-state
electrons do not radiate, makes a much less revolutionary claim.  My
reading indicates that he has only proven that constant velocity electrons do
not radiate (Haus' claim).  Even circularly orbiting electrons (very rare) do
not have constant velocity, they only have constant "speed."  Therefore they
should
radiatie!  Unless Mills has extended this work, which impression I have not
gotten, Haus
cannot be used to provide a non-quantum mechanical basis for the atom and for
Mills'
(or for my) theory.

The fact that Mills' physics and interpretations may be wrong (inadequate),
does not mean that there are no suborbital levels.  It may mean that the
methods, and probabilities, of getting there are nonexistent within our
present framework.  I personally feel that if useful energy is to be obtained
from the suborbital levels, the experiment must be done in the solid state.

Cold Fusion

Despite (because of ?) my love for the idea of cold fusion, I co-authored a
negative paper, with a Ph.D. in physical chemistry ("A Chemical
Interpretation of Calorimetric Results of Fleishmann and Pons," Rittner and
Meulenberg), for one of the Albuquerque Conferences.  While this paper
accounted for all of the excess energy reported in the F&P published work, I
have always hoped that we were wrong and/or that other data could not be
explained away.

We, like most responding scientists, did not write negative papers to debunk
a new idea.  We had read the F&P paper thoroughly and repeatedly to seek
an understanding of the work and its validity.  All the time we were writing,
we were also working, in the back of our minds, to come up with a
mechanism for CF.  The source of the anger that many physicists still
express today at CF is that they had set aside their other work to spend 100
hour weeks on CF, only to find that the results were negative and/or not
reproducible.  The subtleties of critical experiments (in a field in which we
had little or no experience) and the conflicting results (in areas that we did
know) certainly did not improve our mood.

 CF and Suborbitals

A lot of models have been proposed for CF.  Had the experimental work
been convincing (i.e., reproducible), one or more of the models would have
been tested and accepted.  None (?) of the models included the concept of
suborbitals.  With Pd as a matrix (catalyst?) and impurities as the trigger,
Hydrino or Deutrino formation could be possible.  Since they would not
easily ionize, they would become trapped within the structure.  However,
being neutral, they would not impede further migration of  protons or
deuterons to the same site.

This sets the stage for a plethora of possible reactions.  However, only those
that ultimately empty the impurity site can allow continuous recycling and
energy generation.  (It is left to the reader to propose and defend the various
possibilities.)  The point is that an explanation for the profusion of CF
results is now possible.  The dependence on impurities (type and
concentration) is a driver.  With this understanding (assuming it is correct),
it is now possible to proceed with both CF and suborbital electron
research.  By the way, the energy available from de-excitation to the lowest
theoretical suborbital state is about 70 - 140 MeV, therefore the energy for
nuclear
reactions is clearly available, if these levels are accessible.

Non-Technical Observations         (not as well thought out as many of the
similar
comments expressed on the subject)

    *Mills (atomic) and CF (nuclear) are competitors for the same prize.
    *Both face strong theoretical and experiential prejudice.
    *If either concept works, it will be a revolution.  (However, both will
    likely be first commercialized overseas since, in the US, they will have
    to contend with the EPA and "hysteria" mongers.  Research in the US is
    safe from interference because nobody can believe that anything
    unusual will result.)
    *How to personally benefit from all of the hard work and "grief" in the
    development and defense of a new concept is always a concern for
    most people.  Competition decreases the funding pool and therefore the
    chances of success.
    *The first concept to "work" will get a ~5 year "boost" relative to (and
    probably at the expense of) the other.  Considering the fact that this
    would mean billions of dollars per yr for the winning concept, early
    success would seem critical.  Unfortunately, the inventor will see
    precious little of this money.  Most of us will be dead before the patent
    fights (that would result only if the concept were successful) are
    resolved.  Although a Nobel prize downstream is not to be sneered at,
    it would likely be shared (or snared) by 3 or 4 "mainline" groups, who
    had fought the concept earlier but are properly credentialed and
    connected.  After all, they would be the ones to obtain the government
    grants to do the "definitive" work.
    *The mixed results of calorimetric experiments (common to both
    concepts) actually benefits the inventor because "trade" secrets can
    often bring more money than patents (which may belong to someone else).
    *Mills seems to be gambling on success.  He could have gotten a Wall
    Street money manager and planned to walk away a multi-millionaire in
    5 years - win or lose.  His upside is much greater now.
    *If my observation is correct (about the benefits of crystalline suborbital
    "reactors"), then many of the CF experimenters (past and present) have
    a big head start on Mills for achieving both goals.  If they close their
    minds to the possibility of suborbitals, they are guilty of the very thing
they
    accuse the "establishment."

Best regards to all,

Drew M.





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From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Suborbital Electron Theory and CF
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 06:17:28 GMT
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On Wed, 31 Mar 1999 00:49:25 -0500, Andrew Meulenberg wrote:
[snip]
>Now the bad news.  The fact that I disagree with many of Mills' physical
>interpretations is not a real big problem.  We are both trying to put together
>a picture that most physicists feel cannot be done.  However, Haus' paper,
>which was supposed to overcome the stumbling block of why bound-state
>electrons do not radiate, makes a much less revolutionary claim.  My
>reading indicates that he has only proven that constant velocity electrons do
>not radiate (Haus' claim).  Even circularly orbiting electrons (very rare) do
>not have constant velocity, they only have constant "speed."  Therefore they
>should
>radiatie!  Unless Mills has extended this work, which impression I have not
>gotten, Haus
>cannot be used to provide a non-quantum mechanical basis for the atom and for
>Mills'
>(or for my) theory.
[snip]
Perhaps "G.I.Shipov. A Theory of Physical Vacuum. A New Paradigm, GART,
Moscow, 1998, 312 p." 
(see http://www.dataforce.net/~binhi/Shipov/introd.pdf ) has an answer
to your problem. It seems that non-radiating particles in "circular
orbits" are a natural consequence of his theory.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 30 23:42:08 1999
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Subject: Table-Top fusion
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Hi all
You should have a look on
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DaylyNews/tablefusion990324.html
Here is the text :

 ABCNEWS.com
                       A T L A N T A - A decade to the day after two chemists in
                       Utah made their dubious announcement of "cold fusion,"
                       Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory scientists
unveiled
another incredible-sounding claim: table-top fusion.
Unlike cold fusion, this achievement neither is controversial nor hinges on
undiscovered laws of physics. The Livermore researchers also don't claim
that their little fusion machine will produce cheap, limitless energy.

At best, the device might produce a stream of neutrons useful for nuclear
research.
"This is really a wonderful experiment," comments Martin Schmidt, a
physicist at France's Commission of Atomic Energy.

Breakdown of the Fusion Process
The experiment spritzes a jet of deuterium gas - deuterium is a heavy
form of hydrogen - into a vacuum chamber. The cold gas clumps into
clusters of several hundred to several thousand atoms each.
A barrage of laser light, each pulse lasting a mere 35 millionths of
billionth of a second, blows up the clusters and sends deuterium atoms
flying apart.
"You might imagine that ions ejected from neighboring clusters
might collide," says Livermore physicist Todd Ditmire, "and with some
non-insignificant probability produce [deuterium-deuterium] fusion."
When two deuterium atoms fuse together, into helium they release a
flash of energy - it's the same process that produces the light and heat
coming from the sun.
"So we looked to see if we were producing fusion neutrons,"
Ditmire says, "and lo and behold, we were."
With each laser pulse, about 10,000 neutrons cascaded out.
Fast-moving neutrons are the telltale sign that fusion is occurring.
Ditmire presented the findings March 23 at the centennial meeting of
the American Physical Society.

Stange....isn't it ?
                                Jean DeLagarde


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 30 23:46:25 1999
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Hi Michael!

You quoted this from one of my posts;
> I DIDN'T say it was impossible...just that published info to date
> indicates it won't succeed because of the degradation of heat 
> production over time due to contamination by transmutation....a 
> 'heat' battery that kills itself.

Where you wrote;
>>  Jerry seems to imply that energy produced via transmutation must 
>>  quickly contaminate its source to the point of inoperability. The 
>>  actual time scale can be long. Consider a counter example, nuclear 
>>  fission, which produces energy by transmutation (fission) of uranium 
>>  into two smaller nuclei and a few neutrons. 
>>> ...Michael J. Schaffer

Now, now, let's not drag radioactivity into this...I'm not an expert on
the subject of that or cold fusion but to my view, despite both being
nuclear, they are definitely apples and oranges....

You see, what has me frustrated with the cold fusion church..<g>..is
basically three things.

1)  The first is the continual mixing of the production of heat AND the 
    completely separate issue of transmutation.  The term cold fusion 
    seems to be used interchangeably when describing either process this 
    adds to the mystique and resists clarification....a signpost of
    coverup that I have seen over and over in claims of free energy
    inventors who can't or won't prove their claims.  I'm not screaming
    fraud, geez, from what I've seen posted and read in IE, everyone
    seems to be quite sincere and just wanting to figure it out, but 
    WHEN free energy is finally discovered, why have conferences about
    it when it will inevitably become ubiquitous and the cause taken
    up by major companies and governments, so no room for the small
    groups and disciples who pushed so hard to make it so.  So the more
    mysterious and confusing it is, the longer it will remain a mystery,
    almost like alchemy with the coded words and phrases...<g>....

    If you guys would come up with ONE TERM for excess heat production
    and ANOTHER TERM for transmutation, it would greatly minimize this
    confusion.

2)  The second issue I have with cold fusion is this very decay and
    contamination process that you are comparing to nuclear fission
    which does the same thing but with quite different and more 
    hazardous byproducts and emissions. When Patterson hit the news,
    one story mentioned an 'igloo' in your backyard that would produce
    all the electricity you needed for your home, with only a periodic
    replacement of the beads.  It never came to market or any kind of
    unit anywhere near like the stories promoted.  Pattersons grandson
    came to a couple of our meetings and talked for about 20 minutes to
    our group about Patterson and what was to come...it never did..and
    I think this premature prediction hurt the entire field but that 
    was Pattersons promotions, not the cold fusion community..yet with
    all that research by so many individuals, cold fusion just lurches
    along, supposedly having hardware that works but if that is so, why
    not have it verified long term and then get some publicity in hopes
    of serious funding...but I see incessant emails about what I 
    consider artefacts and minutia with no practical benefits.  I quite
    realize that free energy is much worse than cold fusion, but some of
    us are cleaning up our own act and doing frequent reality checks, so
    that is what I would like to see happen in all alternative science
    including cold fusion....again, I have no problem with the claims
    of transmutation, no matter how miniscule...but I do have problems
    with claims of devices which do or will power your house when I see
    no evidence publicly posted of long term heat production at useful 
    temperatures.  Even Storms says 'there are devices working in labs', 
    but I really don't want to be dragged into all the semantics which
    flood vortex on some subjects, particularly cold fusion...if it
    produces useful heat long term, then do a spread in IE, otherwise, 
    IMO, it is wishful thinking or a lab queen which will never see 
    production as a heat production device.

3)  My third issue with the cold fusion crowd is the constant slamming
    of their critics...from what I can see, it appears they just want
    a working proof...but it still gets tangled up in the generic term
    of 'cold fusion' which is still used interchangeably with heat
    production as quite different from transmutation.  It seems those
    who are most confident respond the least, while those riding on the
    edge of reality or truth will scream bloody murder from the smallest
    negative comment or expression of doubt....this is puzzling if the
    proof of sustained heat production is SO...meaning TRUE and PROVEN.

So, ideally, I think the best thing you guys could do is to either
create a NEW term, perhaps letting COLD FUSION apply SPECIFICALLY and
justly to LOW ENERGY TRANSMUTATION....whereas another term would apply
SPECIFICALLY to anomalous heat production....

Yet another option is leaving COLD FUSION as a dual term with two
additional terms, one meaning transmutation, the other meaning anomalous
heat production.

That way, the confusion would at least stop from COLD FUSION being used
to mean two things......

Well, I do hope something positive comes out of all this effort you guys
have made in that field, but for the life of me, I can't see any
practical benefit when there are so many other developed technologies
that achieve the same thing and much cheaper...of course I am referring
to heat production for electrical power or home heating ONLY...not
transmutation...none of them free energy nor would the cold fusion cell
have to be free energy, just that it works before making any public
statements or claims of it working.

Again, I'm not out to get anyone or tick you guys off...I admire both
the tenaciousness and detailed knowledge of cold fusion researchers, but
I just can't see all that time and effort spent for something that won't
be free energy (as pointed out, CONSUMING MATERIAL to produce the heat),
nor will it last long enough to produce the heat energy that will repay
its initial purchase and repair from the inevitable contamination...

Thanks for the cordial post...I love it when people can get their points
across and discuss any errors or misconceptions without resorting to
attacks...especially in a public forum such as a discussion list...
-- 
           Jerry Wayne Decker  /   jdecker keelynet.com
         http://keelynet.com   /  "From an Art to a Science"
      Voice : (214) 324-8741   /   FAX :  (214) 324-3501
   KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 01:45:22 1999
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At 12:49 AM 3/31/99 -0500, Andrew Meulenber wrote:
>
>Jed,     Re: News from the APS meeting
>>        Date:         Thu, 25 Mar 1999 
>
>>They briefly described his (Mills') suborbital electron theory, which most
>>scientists find ridiculous.  Nearly all cold fusion scientists I know
think it
>>is preposterous.
>
>      I am new to Vortex; so I apologize in advance if I step on anybody's
toes
>with my comments...  I both support and criticize Mills' theory.  I
comment on CF and, most importantly, the
>possibility of combining the disciplines.  I (include) ...some
observations in
>response to some running discussions within Vortex.
>
>Mills' Theory
>
>A number of years ago, I developed a theory that indicated the
>atomic-orbital ground states to be ground states for photon emission only.
>Since I could not resolve some of the theoretical problems about
>electromagnetic field resorption, I never published and went back to the
>books for more education.  (I have a Ph.D. in nuclear, not atomic, physics
>and have worked in industry - space radiation effects- for 30 years,
>therefore I am reluctant to challenge accepted theory without a solid
>foundation.)  I still have not solved my problem.
>
>When I recently encountered Mills' work, I was naturally interested.  His
>primary reference (Haus) was claimed to have solved the problem that had
>stopped me.  Furthermore, Mills provided some good models and
>documentation for the existence of suborbital levels occurring in nature.
With
>this incentive, I revisited my theory.
>
>Since I had never had enough certainty about my model to investigate the
>implications of suborbital energy states, I had not calculated any levels.
>While my theory is quite different from Mills', they both must provide the
>same known orbitals.  My theory also agrees with Mills' for, at least, the
>first suborbital level.  I have not yet taken the time to verify the lower
>levels or the method that he has proposed for reaching the 1st suborbital.
>

Hi vo,

http://pride-net.com/physics/  is Dr. Robert L. Carroll's posthumous web
site.  A mathematical physicist, he died last year at 87.

Carroll suggested suborbital quantum states long before Mills.  His
dissident physics is sometimes called Carrollian Mechanics, a perspective
as different an alternative as quantum from a classical approach.  

He filed a patent application, in 1971, on a catalytic fusion reactor.  It
was of course denied.  When P&F came along he believed they had a
reasonable case for fusion without neutrons, since he felt their work was,
in some respects, analogous to his much earlier approach, which involved
hydrogen and spongy platinum.  His reactor was designed to operate at 2
Kelvin.  In recent years, Chubb & Chubb have suggested CF reactions are
more likely at cryogenic temperatures.

Carroll began his alternative analysis in 1942 when he worked at his first
job after earning his PhD at West Virginia...an MIT Field Station operated
by the old Bureau of Standards.  A paper he read, by Milliken, Pickering
and Nearing, in Physical Review, during those early days of WWII, contained
the hypothesis that some at least of the non point specific cosmic rays
might be the result of spontaneous annihilation of atoms lighter than iron
due to the solar wind.  (Two later papers in Phys Rev by the same three
authors, published in 1943 and 1944, led them to believe their hypothesis
might be correct).  

His primary goal was a non-relativistic physics that could open the way to
hardware for trans-luminal space flight.  He had a life-long argument with
relativity theory.  Although relativity is now accepted by the large
majority of physicists, a Section of the 1994 AAAS Pacific Division Meeting
in San Francisco featured a number of dissenting voices, including
Carroll's.  The paper he delivered was well received.

In an expanding universe interstellar space travel is an extremely unlikely
event.  If well designed experiments demonstrate Carrollian mechanics might
have validity, robotic interstellar flight may prove possible.  

William R. Corliss once wrote that, "The energy requirements for
interstellar exploration are so great that these voyages will be impossible
unless a new device is found that can completely transform mass into energy."

Carroll developed one approach to the underlying physics necessary for such
a device.  He believed it makes possible space travel with a theoretical
absolute limit of 20 million times the speed of light.  In his opinion, a
craft of suitable design, leaving earth at dusk, would be orbiting the
bright star Arcturus by the time dawn arrives at the point of departure.
An admiring student of Carroll's work for more than a decade has stated,
more conservatively, that it might take a few weeks, or even months, for a
suitable robotic spacecraft to execute a round trip.  

Now that the Hubble telescope suggests our galaxy contains at least 125
billion stars, and the number of galaxies is believed to number upwards of
100 billion, it will be interesting to see if practical hardware might one
day be created that might provide reasonable tests of his ideas.  


Mark Goldes, Magnetic Power Inc. & Room Temperature Superconductors Inc. (a
subsidiary)

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   At 01:56 AM 3/31/99 -0600, Jerry W. Decker wrote:
>1)  The first is the continual mixing of the production of heat AND the 
>    completely separate issue of transmutation.  The term cold fusion 
>    seems to be used interchangeably when describing either process this 
>    adds to the mystique and resists clarification....a signpost of
>    coverup that I have seen over and over in claims of free energy
>    inventors who can't or won't prove their claims.  I'm not screaming
>    fraud, geez, from what I've seen posted and read in IE, everyone
>    seems to be quite sincere and just wanting to figure it out, but 
>    WHEN free energy is finally discovered, why have conferences about
>    it when it will inevitably become ubiquitous and the cause taken
>    up by major companies and governments, so no room for the small
>    groups and disciples who pushed so hard to make it so.  So the more
>    mysterious and confusing it is, the longer it will remain a mystery,
>    almost like alchemy with the coded words and phrases...<g>....
>
>    If you guys would come up with ONE TERM for excess heat production
>    and ANOTHER TERM for transmutation, it would greatly minimize this
>    confusion.


  Jerry:

  The reported transmutations, and the demonstrated excess heats
are products of the cold fusion process, and the terms reflect what
has been observed.

   Furthermore, when put in the perspective (e.g. Figure 2 of 
 "Optimal Operating Point  Characteristics of Nickel Light
 Water Experiments", Proceedings of ICCF-7 (1998))
the products, and their relationship and variation -- including the 
heat -- may become better understood.

   Have a good day.
     Mitchell Swartz

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At 12:49 AM 3/31/99 -0500, Andrew Meulenberg wrote:

>"The source of the anger that many physicists still
>express today at CF is that they had set aside their other work to spend 100
>hour weeks on CF, only to find that the results were negative and/or not
>reproducible."  

   Some experiments were "too insensitive to detect", and others
detected excess enthalpies which were confirmation of the F&P effect.

     Mitchell Swartz


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 04:50:45 1999
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To: Vortex

One of these days.  :-)

A Home-Made Mass Spectrometer using about 20 kv
at fractions of microamperes, a pair of coils of about 50 ampere-turns about
4 inches in diameter and a plate coated with a phosphor should discriminate
between Light Leptons (~ 0.5 ev)made by pair production  in a H2 or D2 plus
Potassium discharge chamber differentially pumped in a vacuum chamber.

With a 1.0E-3 Tesla (10 gauss) magnetic field the 20 kv electrons will sweep
a radius of about 18 inches and the Light Leptons a radius of about 2.5
inches.

One might do this with the CRT gun assembly and power supply,and phosphor,
off an old tv set.  :-)

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 06:15:35 1999
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Dr. Eugene F. Mallove
P.O. Box 2816,  Concord, NH 03302-2816
Ph: 603-228-4516   Fx: 603-224-5975
e-mail: editor infinite-energy.com
website: http://www.infinite-energy.com

TO:  	Frederic Golden, Leon Jaroff, Jeffrey Kluger, Michael D. Lemonick

							                              March 31, 1999
Dear Sirs:

I do not know which of you were primarily responsible for the vile outrage of designating Drs. Fleischmann and Pons as ³Cranks² in your March 29, 1999 ³Time-100.² To witness them portrayed in infamy on same page (albeit in a different category) as the Naz
i villain Josef Mengele, stretches my tolerance for your so-called science reporting to the limit.

Since all of you are signed as authors of this most reckless assertion about Fleishcmann and Pons, I am sending to each of you a possible corrective for your intellectual confusion: issue #24 of Infinite Energy, which celebrates the 10th anniversary of th
e cold fusion announcement. In particular, I draw your attention to our selection of the top 34 referenced technical papers in peer-reviewed and non-peer reviewed literature that show clear evidence for the cold fusion class of phenomena. You shoudl also 
examine the historical facts presented in this issue, which are at variance with the cartoon history that intellectually challenged ³science journalists² such as yourself routinely parrot.

I have scant hope that scientific papers and correct historical facts can influence people who were so thoughtless in this nearly libelous disparagement of these two discoverers. Still, I would welcome a sincere effort on your part to give Time readers th
e correct story. Had you placed Fleischmann and Pons in the category of ³unsung heroes² on the next page‹ along with Alfred Wegener‹you would have been correct.  You chose instead to present a highly misleading cartoon of what really happened to these pio
neers and what is going on in the cold fusion field today.  This attack on two outstanding scientists and those many hundreds of scientists  who continue their work constitutes journalistic sloppiness at its worst

Sincerely,
Dr. Eugene F.  Mallove,   Editor-in-Chief, Infinite Energy					

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 06:40:58 1999
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"Francis J. Stenger" wrote:

> Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > When a charged particle follows a circular path in a magnetic field, it
> > generates a field of its own as a consequence, that is aligned with the
> > original field.
> > Question: Is the orientation of the secondary field such as to help or
> > hinder the primary field?
>
> Robin, I think the superimposed fields always weaken the net field on
> the inside of the circle, and strengthen it on the outside.  This
> lower "magnetic pressure" on the inside and higher pressure on the
> outside is one way I visualize the force that keeps the particle going
> in a circle.  Anyone but Horace want to comment?  :-) (inside joke).
>
> Frank Stenger

Frank,
Does this mean that, if you had enough particles traversing the field, the
"inside" region would go to zero strength?


--
Regards,
Patrick V. Reavis
http://ro.com/~preavis
http://ro.com/~preavis/Quiz


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 07:24:25 1999
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From: John Berry <antigrav ihug.co.nz>
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Not important if you can't change it but there is a typo.

You shoudl also examine the historical.....


"E.F. Mallove" wrote:

>
>
> Dr. Eugene F. Mallove
> P.O. Box 2816,  Concord, NH 03302-2816
> Ph: 603-228-4516   Fx: 603-224-5975
> e-mail: editor infinite-energy.com
> website: http://www.infinite-energy.com
>
> TO:     Frederic Golden, Leon Jaroff, Jeffrey Kluger, Michael D. Lemonick
>
>                                                                                       March 31, 1999
> Dear Sirs:
>
> I do not know which of you were primarily responsible for the vile outrage of designating Drs. Fleischmann and Pons as ³Cranks² in your March 29, 1999 ³Time-100.² To witness them portrayed in infamy on same page (albeit in a different category) as the N
azi villain Josef Mengele, stretches my tolerance for your so-called science reporting to the limit.
>
> Since all of you are signed as authors of this most reckless assertion about Fleishcmann and Pons, I am sending to each of you a possible corrective for your intellectual confusion: issue #24 of Infinite Energy, which celebrates the 10th anniversary of 
the cold fusion announcement. In particular, I draw your attention to our selection of the top 34 referenced technical papers in peer-reviewed and non-peer reviewed literature that show clear evidence for the cold fusion class of phenomena. You shoudl als
o examine the historical facts presented in this issue, which are at variance with the cartoon history that intellectually challenged ³science journalists² such as yourself routinely parrot.
>
> I have scant hope that scientific papers and correct historical facts can influence people who were so thoughtless in this nearly libelous disparagement of these two discoverers. Still, I would welcome a sincere effort on your part to give Time readers 
the correct story. Had you placed Fleischmann and Pons in the category of ³unsung heroes² on the next page‹ along with Alfred Wegener‹you would have been correct.  You chose instead to present a highly misleading cartoon of what really happened to these p
ioneers and what is going on in the cold fusion field today.  This attack on two outstanding scientists and those many hundreds of scientists  who continue their work constitutes journalistic sloppiness at its worst
>
> Sincerely,
> Dr. Eugene F.  Mallove,   Editor-in-Chief, Infinite Energy

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 07:29:06 1999
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Whoops, meant to be private

John Berry wrote:

> Not important if you can't change it but there is a typo.
>
> You shoudl also examine the historical.....
>
> "E.F. Mallove" wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Dr. Eugene F. Mallove
> > P.O. Box 2816,  Concord, NH 03302-2816
> > Ph: 603-228-4516   Fx: 603-224-5975
> > e-mail: editor infinite-energy.com
> > website: http://www.infinite-energy.com
> >
> > TO:     Frederic Golden, Leon Jaroff, Jeffrey Kluger, Michael D. Lemonick
> >
> >                                                                                       March 31, 1999
> > Dear Sirs:
> >
> > I do not know which of you were primarily responsible for the vile outrage of designating Drs. Fleischmann and Pons as ³Cranks² in your March 29, 1999 ³Time-100.² To witness them portrayed in infamy on same page (albeit in a different category) as the
 Nazi villain Josef Mengele, stretches my tolerance for your so-called science reporting to the limit.
> >
> > Since all of you are signed as authors of this most reckless assertion about Fleishcmann and Pons, I am sending to each of you a possible corrective for your intellectual confusion: issue #24 of Infinite Energy, which celebrates the 10th anniversary o
f the cold fusion announcement. In particular, I draw your attention to our selection of the top 34 referenced technical papers in peer-reviewed and non-peer reviewed literature that show clear evidence for the cold fusion class of phenomena. You shoudl a
lso examine the historical facts presented in this issue, which are at variance with the cartoon history that intellectually challenged ³science journalists² such as yourself routinely parrot.
> >
> > I have scant hope that scientific papers and correct historical facts can influence people who were so thoughtless in this nearly libelous disparagement of these two discoverers. Still, I would welcome a sincere effort on your part to give Time reader
s the correct story. Had you placed Fleischmann and Pons in the category of ³unsung heroes² on the next page‹ along with Alfred Wegener‹you would have been correct.  You chose instead to present a highly misleading cartoon of what really happened to these
 pioneers and what is going on in the cold fusion field today.  This attack on two outstanding scientists and those many hundreds of scientists  who continue their work constitutes journalistic sloppiness at its worst
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Dr. Eugene F.  Mallove,   Editor-in-Chief, Infinite Energy

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 10:17:05 1999
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Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:14:37 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: Table-Top fusion
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At 09:48 3/31/99 +0200, JEAN DELAGARDE wrote:

>Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory scientists
>unveiled another incredible-sounding claim: table-top fusion.

>Stange....isn't it ?
                                Jean DeLagarde

Indeed!  Especially when you consider that my fusor makes D+D fusion
equally well (~50,000 neutrons/sec now), cost FAR less than the $1,000,000
that Livermore spent on their gadget, and took me maybe 2 days to put
together from off-the-shelf components plus a very small amount of custom
fabrication (e.g. the Ta wire grid).

BTW, a colleague of mine suggested that, since my calculated gain was a
factor of 10^10 away from breakeven, a government grant of 10^10 dollars
would be appropriate for scaling it up to breakeven....<g>



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 10:20:32 1999
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Chasing Light Leptons with a Magnetic Separator
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At 5:41 AM 3/31/99, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
>To: Vortex
>
>One of these days.  :-)
>
>A Home-Made Mass Spectrometer using about 20 kv
>at fractions of microamperes, a pair of coils of about 50 ampere-turns about
>4 inches in diameter and a plate coated with a phosphor should discriminate
>between Light Leptons (~ 0.5 ev)made by pair production  in a H2 or D2 plus
>Potassium discharge chamber differentially pumped in a vacuum chamber.
>
>With a 1.0E-3 Tesla (10 gauss) magnetic field the 20 kv electrons will sweep
>a radius of about 18 inches and the Light Leptons a radius of about 2.5
>inches.
>
>One might do this with the CRT gun assembly and power supply,and phosphor,
>off an old tv set.  :-)
>
>Regards,   Frederick

A somewhat long list of new and old light lepton detection ideas follows.
I hope you enjoy some of the new tiny kernels well hidden in the old chaff.
8^)

You might be able to detect light electrons using their resonance, by
building a light lepton magnetron.

Another alternative is to create a plasma medium in a magnetic field and
stimulate with radio frequency looking for the characteristic cyclotron
frequency, though it would be a broad peak due to the relativistic mass
changes.  To achieve maximum pair production the temperature would have to
be around 1.16045x10^4 K,or 11,605 K.

Another means would be two metal plates in a vacuum at a differential
voltage, using the photoelectric effect on one plate to create pairs.
Using 0.5 eV per particle, i.e. about 1 eV for pair production.

   1 eV = 1.60217733x10^-19 J

   lambda = h/E = (6.626x10^-34 J-s)/(1.60217733x10^-19 J)

          = 4.136x10^-15 sec

          = 1.24x10^-6 m

   freq = 1/lambda = 2.418x10^14 Hz  (actually 2.417988x10^14 Hz)


Another means of light lepton production might be using a triode:

        (-1 V)         (0 V)
       Filament        Plate
  --------            \
          \            \------------
          /             \
  --------               \







    ----------------------------  Detector plate
                  |
                  |  (-1000 V, or other large negative voltage)


A nice clean peak requires that the "filament" actually be a cathode plate
heated by an insulated filament, to avoid multiple potentials across the
filament.  The above are relative voltages, so can be adjusted to suit
power supplies and probes available.  The voltage differentials are chosen
to ensure positive light leptons, light positrons, are detected at the
detector plate.

In thinking about this further, an ordinary triode, like the one Frank
Stenger so generously sent me for just this kind of experiment, might work
fine.  The filament and plate could be set at large positive voltages, an
unused pin could be used as the "detector plate".  Using an x-y plot of
detector plate current as a function of the voltage differential between
the filament and plate should show a peak at around 1 eV if the leptons
exist.  Deja vu?

The big unknown is what kind of detector plate current could be expected
from a given filament-plate current?  The tube I have has a very small
current rating, so the detected current might be vanishing.  This
experiment would best be done with a custom made tube which can produce
very large filament-plate currents at 1 V.  Special cathode material, with
a low work function, should be employed.

If massive amounts of light leptons can be produced then cyclotron
frequency experiments could be done on the tube to determine mass of the
light positrons migrating from the plate to the detector plate.

There is also the unknown of whether metals can conduct light leptons.  If
not, light leptons will build up on the detector plate, but not
neutralizing its potential, as electrons can migrate in to balance the net
charge.  It is interesting that if a large current is maintained
indefinitely that the mass of the plate will increase.

It is also an interesting observation at this point that, provided the
detector plate were a needle point, it could collect massive amounts of
electrons on the tip, yet the charge would still be balanced, due to the
formation of superpositioned light positron-heavy electron pairs.  It is
not clear what would make such a pair break up, however.

One basis for a detector hinges on light leptons being able to conduct like
ordinary electrons.  If they can, then the detector should work.  There is
no reason to think light leptons can not conduct, because the wavelength of
an electron is much bigger than an atom, but electrons manage to move along
through some much smaller spaced lattices very well, especially
semiconductor lattices.

The idea is to use a tunnel diode, or a specially built light lepton tunnel
diode, as a detector.  Light leptons at a given thermal energy will have a
much larger wavelength lambda = h/(mv) due to the smaller mass.  Therefore,
light leptons should be able to tunnel across a much larger tunnel diode
junction, and should have a larger tunneling rate at a fixed voltage and
barrier size than electrons.

One problem with this idea is that electrons move glacially slow in
conductors.  It may take a very long time to draw the ll's into the
tunneling diode, making the measurement time less than utilitarian.  The
speed can be increased by using large current densities, but that makes
detection even more difficult unless copious light lepton sources are
available.

Since ll's have a much bigger size than electrons, it should be possible to
custom make a probe with a very thin nonconductive coating just a bit too
thick for ordinary electrons to tunnel.  This might be achieved by coating
a metal or semiconductor probe with its own oxide coating.  The coating
should have a high dielectric strength, plus not break down at a high
voltage. Maybe SiO2 on a doped N-type semiconductor would work.

There would be an advantage to using a high voltage gradient at the probe
surface, thus an ionizing capability. The probe could then strip light
leptons from their environments, making the detector more generally useful
and sensitive.

Detecting the ll's then amounts to detecting a DC current component
present.  Moving the probe around would generate an AC signal due to
changing capacitance between the probe and the surrounds.  However, a
steady DC component to the probe current would indicate tunneling, and thus
light leptons.  The probe would best be used in a light lepton producing
environment

The ionizing energy for a light lepton hydrino should be small, so it would
be possible to make a probe by simply making a gap:

             XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
--------->   XPPPPPPPPPPPPP--------
             XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

X    - oxide coating
-->  - conducting electrode at high voltage
PPP  - LL probe body


Such a probe could obviously be used in a vacuum environment, and might be
useful as a replacement for a "dector plate".

If you make your own probe by making a very thin oxide tunneling barrier,
then the ll's are drawn in by maintaining a DC field below threshold of
distruction of the insulating tunneling barrier layer. You can chose which
kind of light lepton you are looking for, positive or negative, by chosing
the opposite polarity of the sensor electrode behind the tunneling layer.
This seems by far the best method, but you have to make just the right kind
of layer.  An ionizing point electrode or a hot filament opposite the
sensing probe may help draw the ll's lose from anything to which they may
have attached.

If you use a commercial tunnel diode then the device is not as general, and
may not work, but easier to construct.  You need to suppy a HV bias to draw
the ll's into the diode from a sampling point *very* near the diode.  The
ll's could possibly move at electron speed in a metal, which is *very*
slow, and, even if they exist, it is not known if they can move through
metal.  Assuming they get into the sampling metal probe, use a small DC
current to draw some of the ll's into the tunnel diode by using the voltage
gradient from the diode's current loop.

Here is an example using a tunnel diode:

 HV -         D1    V2
  --->   X---|<|-----------R1-------
  |         |      |               |
  |         |      ----|\ Op. Amp. |
  |       V1|      ----|/|----o A  |V4
  |         |      |               |
  |         |--R2----------R3------|
  |         |       V3             |
  |         |                      |
  |         |--B1----------R4-------
  |         | -  +
  HV        |
  |         |
  |         |
  ----------|
            |
            G

A     - ll sensor probe output
B1    - battery
HV    - high voltage supply used to draw/push negative leptons into sampler
        wire at X
Op. Amp. - differential op amp used to sense change in V2-V3
D1    - tunnel diode operating in tunneling, but positive slope, region
           (lowest current region)
R1    - devides voltage V1 - V4 with D1
R2,R3 - trim pot to set zero point, V2=V3.
R4    - bias resistor, value chosen so V1-V2 puts D1 in right voltage range
->    - point electrode or hot filament (heater circuit not shown)


If light leptons are drawn into circuit at X, then eventually some should
reach D1, and D1 should conduct them much better, thus resistance drops and
V2 goes higher with respect to V3.


The tunnel diode light lepton (ll) detector (call it a type 1 detector) is
not so great an idea.  The tunnel diode is designed to tunnel electrons.
The ll signal could just be noise over the electron flow over the tunneling
barrier.  This fact, combined with the very long conduction times in
copper, pretty much indicate that if such a probe worked it would be very
fortunate and also that the light leptons would have to be very abundant.

Looking now at the other alternative (a type 2 detector), if any current
crosses a much wider custom built tunneling barrier, one over 137 angstroms
(up to maybe 400 angstroms) thick, then that current, except for a minimal
constant leakage, would be 100 percent signal.  Further, the lower eV
(lighter) ll's could tunnel a barrier 137 times that of the first order
ll's.  There is no conductor on the sensing side of the barrier to cause
delay.  Such a (type 2) sensor should give an immediate and reliable yes/no
reading.

There still is the problem of filtering out purely capacitive linkage
transients to changing surroundings near the probe.   That might be handled
by comparing the signal across the tunneling gap to the signal across a
nearby capacitor with a similar capacitance and leakage, but smaller area
and larger gap width.

A lot of amplification can be used because so much of the current is
signal.  However, if it is carried to the extreme of getting down to single
event detection, then thermal noise and cosmic ray background start to play
a role.  If ll's exist and can fill up the volume of a light bulb or a CF
test cell, then getting down to single events is not anywhere near
necessary.

The type 2 detector is really the only way to go to obtain a negative
result.  A type 1 detector  might give a positive reading though, and, if
all measurment errors could be ruled out, that would be a nearly miraculous
thing - to achieve the detection of light leptons.

It does seem that if light leptons conducted that they would have been
playing havoc with sensitive electronic circuitry for the last century.
Also, if light positron currents can be made, electrons can meet them at
any conduction barrier and neutralize their charge, but current flow is
still maintained, and thus detectable, unless some kind of pressure builds
up from the neutral particle soup that results.

Well, there is some food for thought.  Hope there is some neutrition in
there, but if not there is at least a lot of roughage.  8^)

Time to go eat breakfast.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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From: VCockeram aol.com
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In a message dated 03/30/1999 21:34:02 Pacific Standard Time, little eden.com
writes:

<<snip>>

> It looks like you are going to be in the <100 watt regime, thus you may
>  need to correct your watthour meter's readings a bit (if it's like mine).
>  Try running 25, 40, 60, and 100 watt light bulbs.  Use a pretty-good
>  digital meter to measure the voltage across the bulb and the current thru
>  it (ideally you would have two meters so one could remain in the circuit to
>  monitor current all the time).  Multiply v*i to get the actual power
>  delivered to the light bulb (this works because a bulb is a resistive load
>  with unity power factor).  Compare with the watthour meter's result. 
>  Scott Little 
>  EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
>  512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
>  little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

Ok Scott, I will conduct some tests with light bulbs and my good digital
meters
to check the watt-hour meter accuracy. I did one quick test with an 1100 watt
resistive load and it was right on the money but yes, I will be running <100
watts
and so need calibration at the lower wattage regime.

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada
702-254-2122

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 10:49:47 1999
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In a message dated 03/30/1999 21:09:35 Pacific Standard Time,
schaffermj yahoo.com writes:

     <<snip prev posted test data>>

>  You are confusing current with power, and real or resistive power with
>  imaginary or ractive power. The watt-hour meter measures real power.
    
OK, Michael, thats what I want to measure, real power.

>   You also need to understand how a neon lamp transformer operates.......
       
      <<snip>> 

This is not a neon sign transformer Michael,  it is as oil burner ignition
transformer
with the following specifications:  Primary 120 volts 250 VA  Secondary 10kV
23 mA.

     <<snip good stufff about phase angles ect.>>  

>  This is why AC power cannot be measured just by using a voltmeter and an
>  ammeter, even if they are true rms instruments. A special instrument must
be
>  used that takes voltage-current product in TIME and then averages it.

So then will the standard watt-hour meter do the job I want, measure actual
(real) power
being used by the transformer?
>  
>  The shorter spark in air is less resistive than the longer one, so it has a
>  lower voltage. However, the current in the shorter spark is probably not
>  much greater than in the longer one, because the current is limited
strongly
>  by the internal inductance. The end result is a lower voltage-current
>  product, hence less power.
>  ===
>  Michael J. Schaffer

Thank you for your informative post Michael

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada
702-254-2122

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 12:18:27 1999
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From: "Scudder, Henry J" <Henry.Scudder West.Boeing.com>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: H2 w/K glow discharge
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:15:51 -0800
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My guess would be that the larger gap caused ionization of the air over a
wider region, allowing more current to flow, ie, a lower resistance, hence a
higher wattage.

Hank

> ----------
> From: 	VCockeram aol.com[SMTP:VCockeram@aol.com]
> Reply To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
> Sent: 	Tuesday, March 30, 1999 8:31 PM
> To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
> Subject: 	Re: H2 w/K glow discharge
> 
> All,
> 
> The watt-hour meter arrived today from Herbach and Rademan.  I spent an
> hour
> or so mounting it on an oak stand I constructed. 
> I ran a quick test with an electric iron and the reading I got was right
> on
> the 1100 watts specified on the iron's spec plate.  
> 
> Now a mystery:
> I connected the high voltage transformer to the wattmeter and ran three
> tests
> at full 120 volt line voltage. (variac was not used)
> (1)  high voltage output open circuit, i.e. no load.  input was 12 watts
> (2)  high voltage output with a 1/2 inch gap.           input was 60 watts
> (3)  high voltage output with a 1/8 inch gap.           input was 40 watts
> 
> These spark load tests were conducted in open air between two electrodes
> fashioned from number 14 solid copper wire.
> 
> I wonder why the smaller spark gap pulls less current.
> I also noticed with the high voltage shorted it drew very little wattage.
> I
> didn't run a complete test of this for fear of destroying the transformer
> but
> the rotor speed was less than the open circuit test.
> Comments?
> 
> Regards,
> Vince Cockeram
> Las Vegas Nevada
> 702-254-2122
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 12:19:29 1999
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From: "Scudder, Henry J" <Henry.Scudder West.Boeing.com>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Particle in field
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A related question is: What is the path of the conduction electrons inside
of a current carrying real conductor? There is a longitudinal electric field
because of the resistance of the wire, as well as the circular magnetic
field due to the current in the  wire.

Hank
> ----------
> From: 	Patrick V. Reavis[SMTP:preavis ro.com]
> Reply To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
> Sent: 	Wednesday, March 31, 1999 6:37 AM
> To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
> Subject: 	Re: Particle in field
> 
> "Francis J. Stenger" wrote:
> 
> > Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > When a charged particle follows a circular path in a magnetic field,
> it
> > > generates a field of its own as a consequence, that is aligned with
> the
> > > original field.
> > > Question: Is the orientation of the secondary field such as to help or
> > > hinder the primary field?
> >
> > Robin, I think the superimposed fields always weaken the net field on
> > the inside of the circle, and strengthen it on the outside.  This
> > lower "magnetic pressure" on the inside and higher pressure on the
> > outside is one way I visualize the force that keeps the particle going
> > in a circle.  Anyone but Horace want to comment?  :-) (inside joke).
> >
> > Frank Stenger
> 
> Frank,
> Does this mean that, if you had enough particles traversing the field, the
> "inside" region would go to zero strength?
> 
> 
> --
> Regards,
> Patrick V. Reavis
> http://ro.com/~preavis
> http://ro.com/~preavis/Quiz
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 13:25:13 1999
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: APS cold fusion session
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Here is a brief look at the APS session on cold fusion, ZC07. DCMP:
Palladium Electrochemistry, which was held on Friday March 26, at 2 p.m. It
was organized and chaired by Scott Chubb of the Naval Research Laboratory
and Oakton international, who did a great job and deserves a round of
applause. This was one of the best cold fusion meetings I have attended. It
was short but informative.

By 2 p.m. Friday, the APS meeting was pretty much over. The exhibitors left
on Thursday, and most attendees left Friday morning. The registration and
information booths were closed, so people who showed up especially for the
cold fusion session had difficulty learning where it would be held, but on
the other hand they did not have to pay admission. I did not count the
participants but I estimate 50 people showed up, which was more than I
expected. There were ~10 people in the front row who always show up, and in
the back rows were 30 or 40 curious people who dropped in. Most of them
were young people who had never heard cold fusion. The opposition was
represented by Douglas Morrison and a smirking reporter from U.S. News and
World Report magazine, who sat next Morrison.

The six formal presentations were limited to 10 minutes each. They were
followed by a spirited, open-ended informal discussion.

Scott Chubb introduced the session. He noted that this is the first time
the APS has had a session devoted to cold fusion since 1989. He said that
the name "cold fusion" is unfortunate because it led many physicists to
"believe that there had to be high energy particles involved," but cold
fusion produces only heat and transmutations. He avoided that word
"transmutations," calling them "residuals nuclear byproducts," especially
helium-4 and helium-3, which occur at levels that confound imagination. I
do not think the name cold fusion led these physicists to expect high
energy particles. Their theories made them expect particles, which made
them doubt cold fusion at first, and later despise it. This was inevitable.
As Juliet loved Romeo despite his name, so the physicists will hate cold
fusion no matter what you call it. To paraphrase -- or mutilate -- her
lines, the physicists might say:

  Tis not thy name that is my enemy.
  Thou art thyself, and not a Tokamak.
  What's a Tokamak? it is nor hand, nor foot,
  Nor arm, nor face -- it's funding,
  Belonging to us. O, be some other name!
  What's in a name? That which we call a rose
  By any other name would smell as sweet.
  So cold fusion would, were it not cold fusion call'd,
  Retain that dread heresy which it owes
  Without that title . . .

(Romeo and Juliet, Act 2, Scene II, with apologies)


Here are the presentations:

14:00 ZC07.01 A Search for Cold Fusion Heat from Deuterided Pd Powder  T.A.
Chubb, S.R. Chubb (Oakton International Corporation, 5023 N 38 St,
Arlington, VA 22207), G.L. Schmidt (New Mexico Engineering Research
Laboratory, 901 University Blvd. SE, Albuquerque, NM 87106-4339) 

Palladium black was exposed to high-pressure deuterium gas. No excess heat
was observed. This experiment was inspired by Arata work, but it is quite
different in many ways. Chubb et al. use mechanical loading (pumps) in a
stainless steel cell, whereas Arata uses electrochemical loading and the
spillover effect to force deuterium into the palladium black inside a
specially designed palladium metal container. The cell was operated at high
temperature and pressure. They did a good job measuring loading and
avoiding contamination from vacuum pumps and other sources. I do not think
the temperature or pressure were cycled, as they have been in most previous
gas loading experiments. 


14:12 ZC07.02 Cavitation Produced Anomalous Heat, R.S. Stringham (First
Gate Energies, 2166 Old Middlefield Way, Mountain  View, CA 94043) 

Stringham was unable to attend, so Scott Chubb read this paper in his
place. This was similar to Stringham's previous presentation. (See ICCF-7,
p. 361.) In this device, acoustic waves cause cavitation, driving deuterium
into targets of silver, copper, titanium, nickel titanium and palladium
targets. A piezo device like the kind used in an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner
is used to generate sound waves, usually at 40 kHz. Excess heat and
transmutation reactions occur with deuterium, but not with hydrogen control
cells. The foil targets are 5 cm square and 100 microns thick. A joule
heater for calibration is employed. The cell holds 50 milliliters of fluid
which is cycled through the cell and a cooler at a rate of 30 milliliters
per minute. The device produces tritium and copious helium with unnatural
He-4/He-3 ratios. Most of the He-3 is probably the decay product of tritium.

If I understand correctly, they depend on static calorimetry, although they
do measure the flow temperatures. ICCF-7 figure 1 shows calibration data
with a Delta T up to 60 deg C, which cannot be from a 30 ml flow. I have
not looked closely at this, but on the face of it, the calorimetry seems
solid. The ICCF 7 text says, "there were four reactor volume output TCs (K
type thermocouples), 2 ambient temperature TCs, 2 reactor containment TC2,
output from 2 3400A HP voltmeters . . . And output from a Semitronics watt
meter measuring the watts to the joule heater . . . The joule heater data
is collected as the average of the 4 TCs with a maximum deviation between
them of 1 deg C . . ."

SEM photos of targets that produced excess heat show tiny spheres of metal
ejected from holes. This is vaporized and resolidified material, similar to
that observed by Ohmori and Mizuno. Stringham says this cannot be caused by
chemical energy, because chemical energy density would not be high enough
to vaporize material in such small spots. Russ George explained that
molecular reactions propagate at the speed of sound, by definition: sound
is a molecular reaction. In other words, basic physics proves that
molecular (chemical) heat would spread out from a tiny point source too
quickly to vaporize the metal. A chemical or electrical heat source could
vaporize a much larger area, or it could vaporize the entire sample, but it
could not be this concentrated. A laser would do the trick, and so would a
nuclear reaction.


14:24 ZC07.03 Solid State Nuclear Reactions: Several Convincing
Experiments, Eugene F. Mallove (New Energy Research Laboratory, PO Box
2816, Concord, NH  03302-2816) 

Mallove reviewed some basics of cold fusion, pointing out, for example,
that the energy releases are far beyond the limits of chemical energy
storage. He listed some of the putative causes of the reaction, starting
with "fuddy-duddy, mainstream" deuterium reactions that produce helium, and
going onto the Mills theory and speculation that ZPE is somehow involved.
He distribute copies of the latest issue of Infinite Energy and referred
the audience to the list of outstanding papers beginning on page 29.


14:36 ZC07.04 Rules for Coherent, Low Temperature Nuclear Reactions
in Solids, Scott Chubb, Talbot Chubb (Oakton International Corporation,
5023 N. 38 St., Arlington, VA 22207) 

This was about Scott Chubb's theory, which is over my head. Perhaps someone
else can comment on it.


14:48 ZC07.05 Anomalous Heat Generated by Electrolysis Using a Palladium
Cathode and Heavy Water, E. K. Storms (Energy K. Systems, Santa Fe, NM 87501) 

Storms was unable to attend, so McKubre read this paper in his place.
Actually it was not a formal paper, but viewgraphs, data and comments from
Storms' many experiments, which McKubre understands quite well. He
describes the reproducibility problem, which is often misunderstood. Cold
fusion invariably occurs when the correct conditions are achieved, and is
relatively easy to see that the conditions occur, but it is very difficult
to achieve them. Essentially, you have to reach high loading, intense
hydrogen surface activity as measured by the open circuit voltage (OCV),
and you have to keep the metal intact. I would say this is a little like
reaching the top of Mt. Everest intact; is hard to get there but you always
know when you have arrived. McKubre said, "when we perform our experiments
as well as we can, we perform them with as nearly ideal materials as we can
procure, in as careful a way as we can, the experiments quite literally do
not appear to reproduce. And these are perfectly mundane observations. This
has nothing to do with cold fusion or excess heat. Mundane things in the
deuterium-palladium system are apparently not reproducing, which means and
there are composed of our experiment which are outside of our experimental
control. Now what Ed Storms has done, in a very careful and patient study
is focus attention on crucial parameters of the deuterium palladium system
which are out of our control," especially, excess free volume. This is
caused when mechanical force from the deuterium in the lattice wedges the
lattice apart, fissures and voids appear, the lattice is destroyed, and the
deuterium escapes.
 
One of the most interesting graphs, which we will reproduce in the next
issue, showed expansion for 90 samples of palladium. In this paper "How to
perform the Pons Fleischmann experiment" Storms shows that palladium which
expands more than 3% in any dimension will never produce excess heat. He
showed that all of the metal samples produced by NEDO exceeded this limit
by a wide margin. Some expanded more than 20%. This was a revelation to
Douglas Morrison, who, along with the NEDO managers, must have slept
through the last five ICCF conferences. He seemed amazed and incredulous to
hear that expansion is an issue, and further discussion revealed that he
knows nothing about the other materials issues described over the years by
Storms, Fleischmann, Mizuno, McKubre, Oriani, De Ninno, Violante, and a few
hundred other researchers. Materials have been the main focus of every ICCF
conference.


15:00 ZC07.06 Evidence for Concomitant Heat and Helium Production in the
D/Pd System, Michael C. H. McKubre, Francis L. Tanzella (SRI International,
Menlo Park,  CA) 

This was outstanding. McKubre showed helium commensurate with excess heat.
Commensurate, in this case, means that the SRI researchers recovered 99% of
the helium you would expect from a conventional, hot fusion D-D, 20 MeV
reaction producing the same amount of heat. These results agree closely
with results from Miles and the Italian INEA laboratories. McKubre began by
saying: "The evidence for excess heat is much stronger, in my view, than
the evidence for concomitant nuclear processes. Part of a reason is because
it is very difficult to do both experiments simultaneously." He described
three projects at SRI: 

1. Experiments performed mainly by Ben Bush with a Seebeck calorimeter,
inspired by Melvin Miles. Effluent gas from an open cell sweeps through the
collection flask. After multiple volumes of gas pass through the flask, it
is sealed off and sent to another laboratory where helium is measured. This
confirmed Miles' result, except in two cases, where heat was observed but
no significant helium was found. (Miles saw a deficit in some cases, but he
always observed significant helium when excess heat was present.) They
assumed this was because the helium was trapped in the metal, a hypothesis
confirmed by the next experiment. They never observed helium without excess
heat.

2. Experiments performed in 1994 by Smedley and Crouch-Baker, with a
leak-tight, closed calorimeter. Samples are drawn off once a day. At first
the helium appeared to be only 63% of the expected value, however, another
sample taken a few days later showed concentration had increased to 66%.
There it stuck for a while. The cathodes were deloaded and loaded, the
temperature was cycled, the amount of helium climbed and then leveled off,
and after three weeks 99% of the expected amount of helium was found in the
head space. This indicates that at first helium is trapped in the metal
lattice close the surface. It gradually leaves the metal and is dissolved
into the electrolyte, and from there it gradually escapes to the head space
where it is sampled. Miles also believes that the helium deficits he
sometimes observed were caused by this mechanism.

3. Replications of the Case experiment, which are mainly been performed by
George and Tanzella, under the guidance of Les Case.

This was one of the most important papers ever presented in this field.
Unfortunately, the data from this experiment appears in the second volume
describing EPRI's cold fusion research, and this publication costs $20,000.
(The book is free to members EPRI, which is a consortium of electric power
companies.) It is a terrible shame that these spectacular results are
effectively kept secret behind this $20,000 barrier.

Morrison asked why the second experiment has not been repeated. McKubre
explained that the data shown represents five man years of work and a huge
amount of money, so he is looking for cheaper "cleverer" ways to do it. He
thinks the Case experiments that this description, and he said they are
"almost ready for prime time," meaning he is nearly ready to present them.
He also intends to check six samples from the Case cell for helium-3.

Since Russ George was in attendance, McKubre stepped aside and George
briefly described replications of the Case cell replications. In this
experiment, palladium on carbon catalysts are exposed to deuterium gas.
Excess heat and helium are detected. George first showed a graph
demonstrating the resolution of their on-line mass spectrometer, which
clearly separates peaks for helium-4 and deuterium. Then he showed two
helium production curves in one graph. Two cells were run side by side, one
with hydrogen, the other with deuterium gas. The hydrogen sample did not
produce excess heat or significant helium. The deuterium sample produced
steady excess heat and a steady increase in helium concentration up to 11
ppm for 28 days, when experiment was terminated. This is far above
atmospheric concentration, 5.2 ppm. Contamination is ruled out, because a
leak could only reduce the level of helium. This experiment is now being
reproduced at SRI and two other laboratories. George said it is slow and
difficult work.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 13:53:42 1999
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Subject: Re: H2 w/K glow discharge
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At 13:43 3/31/99 EST, VCockeram aol.com wrote:

>This is not a neon sign transformer Michael,  it is as oil burner ignition
>transformer

I found some references on this subject:  Neon sign xfmrs and oil burner
ignition xfmrs are essentially identical in internal construction.  This
type of xfmr has a "magnetic shunt" in it which provides a path for the
magnetic flux created by the primary to go INSTEAD of linking the
secondary.  The shunt path usually has an air gap to make it more reluctant
that the path thru the secondary. When the xfmr is unloaded, almost all the
flux goes thru the 2ndary and you get a real high output voltage.  When you
start drawing current, however, the 2ndary windings oppose the primary's
flux and force more and more of it to go thru the shunt.  When you short
circuit the 2ndary of such a xfmr, virtually all of the primary's flux goes
thru the shunt, it looks like a big inductor, and draws relatively little
power from the line.


Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 14:03:46 1999
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Scott Little wrote:
> 
> At 11:36 PM 3/30/99 -0600, I wrote wrote:
> 
> >As Michael said, sounds like yr xfmr has been designed so that the core
> >will saturate....
> 
> On second thought, it's something else besides saturation that happens.
> THAT would make the current shoot up...not level off.  hmmmmm.

The current limiting is provided by shunts in the transformer's internal
structure. You can take a neon and melt the potting compound, pour it
out, and look. Buy removing some of the shunts, you can make the current
go up. Don't remove much though!!!

Kyle R. Mcallister

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 14:28:41 1999
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-----Original Message-----
From: Horace Heffner <hheffner mtaonline.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Chasing Light Leptons with a Magnetic Separator

Horace wrote:


>At 5:41 AM 3/31/99, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
>>
>>A Home-Made Mass Spectrometer using about 20 kv
>>at fractions of microamperes, a pair of coils of about 50 ampere-turns
about
>>4 inches in diameter and a plate coated with a phosphor should
discriminate
>>between Light Leptons (~ 0.5 ev)made by pair production  in a H2 or D2
plus
>>Potassium discharge chamber differentially pumped in a vacuum chamber.
>>
>>With a 1.0E-3 Tesla (10 gauss) magnetic field the 20 kv electrons will
sweep
>>a radius of about 18 inches and the Light Leptons a radius of about 2.5
>>inches.
>>
>>One might do this with the CRT gun assembly and power supply,and phosphor,
>>off an old tv set.  :-)
>
>A somewhat long list of new and old light lepton detection ideas follows.

Snip some creative ideas in the long list.
>
>Another alternative is to create a plasma
>To achieve maximum pair production the temperature would have to
>be around 1.16045x10^4 K,or 11,605 K.

Vince is getting a plasma that should be around 11,605 K.
This why a small H2/D2-K discharge chamber with a small hole in the anode to
let the electrons and possibly negatively charged LLs out to the
extractor-accelerator-magnetic separator-phosphor detector was suggested.
The vacuum system should be able to keep up with the H2/D2-K gas leak.

If you want to stay in the Mills "Hydrino" Protocol "ballpark" this looks
like the simplest approach.

The dark adapted eye can see the fluorescence from a LL striking the
phosphor on a  "plate"
with more sensitivity than you can muster trying to measure attoampere
currents.  :-)

With about a 6:1 radius ratio (if the LL charge is the same as the e-
charge. If the LL charge is less than
e- or e+  then R = Mrel*c/q'*B  might not pick up the mass/charge difference
 as easily.
>
>In thinking about this further, an ordinary triode, like the one Frank
>Stenger so generously sent me for just this kind of experiment, might work
>fine.
>
How do you get the H2/D2-Potassium into it,then detect an LL current?
>
>It does seem that if light leptons conducted that they would have been
>playing havoc with sensitive electronic circuitry for the last century.
>
I think you would call that "Noise". :-)
>
>Also, if light positron currents can be made, electrons can meet them at
>any conduction barrier and neutralize their charge,

If their radius r = kq^2/E  is about 28 angstroms I don't think you will see
them in a lattice (except for the Nickel or Palladium where H2 or D2 is
forced in and they are created in there). They should be in water though,
and participate in Sonoluminescence phenomena or transmutation of Potassium
into Calcium in sea water H-LL + 19K39 ---> 20Ca40+LL or D-LL + 19K39 --->
20Ca40 + Neutron + LL.

This is most likely why you can get "remediation" sans Gamma radiation and
Hot Neutrons.

Regards,  Frederick
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner
>


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 14:49:09 1999
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Scott Little wrote:
> 

> I found some references on this subject:  Neon sign xfmrs and oil burner
> ignition xfmrs are essentially identical in internal construction.  This
> type of xfmr has a "magnetic shunt" in it which provides a path for the
> magnetic flux created by the primary to go INSTEAD of linking the
> secondary. 

Good research, Scott and Kyle!  So, instrumenting the primary of Vince's
Xformer is going to give a very "fuzzy" power picture of what's going
on in the secondary, right?  I wonder how much the efficiency changes
from open secondary to short circuit?
The copper losses can be calculated from DC winding resistance and the
measured currents.  But, the varying magnetization losses are killers.

It looks like a simple thermal power system might be the answer after
all - didn't Horace and others have some good ideas on this a while
back?

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 16:11:00 1999
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At 15:39 3/31/99 -0500, Jed Rothwell wrote:

>15:00 ZC07.06 Evidence for Concomitant Heat and Helium Production in the
>D/Pd System, Michael C. H. McKubre, Francis L. Tanzella (SRI International,
>Menlo Park,  CA) 

Was their work with the unique Arata cathode mentioned?



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 16:11:48 1999
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: APS cold fusion session
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Thanks Jed for the very encouraging report from the APS conference, and to
Gene Mallove for the Anniversary Issue of IE.  These things are so positive
and motivating.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 16:27:08 1999
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At 2:46 PM 3/31/99, Frederick J Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>>In thinking about this further, an ordinary triode, like the one Frank
>>Stenger so generously sent me for just this kind of experiment, might work
>>fine.
>>
>How do you get the H2/D2-Potassium into it,then detect an LL current?
[snip]


No need, is there?  They should be created from 1 eV photons, right?  Such
should be produced from electron-electron collision at the plate surface,
right?  All that is necessary to give the light leptons life is a
sufficient field gradient to separate them.


[snip]
>>Also, if light positron currents can be made, electrons can meet them at
>>any conduction barrier and neutralize their charge,
>
>If their radius r = kq^2/E  is about 28 angstroms I don't think you will see
>them in a lattice
[snip]

There is not necessarily a problem with big leptons in a lattice.  There is
no problem with 10 A deBroglie wavelength electrons roving around in
semiconductor lattices.

Even if they do not enter a conductor lattice, it is interesting that they
can pair up with electrons and still produce current, as well as a host of
neutral particles.  The neutral particles would be very losely bound,
though, I think, because even though their center of charge can be
superpositioned, the force is small due to the charge being spread out in
the quantum waveform psi.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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From: VCockeram aol.com
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In a message dated 03/31/1999 14:48:45 Pacific Standard Time,
fstenger interlaced.net writes:

> Good research, Scott and Kyle!  So, instrumenting the primary of Vince's
>  Xformer is going to give a very "fuzzy" power picture of what's going
>  on in the secondary, right?  I wonder how much the efficiency changes
>  from open secondary to short circuit?

I forgot to mention in my post re load tests of the watt-hour meter that I
plan to
test the input power to the transformer over a set of different secondary arc
lengths, say starting at  0.100 inch up to as large as a gap that will sustain
an arc in open air.  Sound reasonable Frank?
I will build a precision adjustable spark gap for the test and measure the gap
with a dial caliper.

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada
702-254-2122

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 17:17:58 1999
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All,
I ran tests today to see how the watt-hour meter reading compared
with several different loads, all are standard incandecent
lamps run at full line voltage. The last was a floor fan I used to
see how the meter handled an inductive load. The fan was also
run at full line voltage, 120 volts.

      LOAD         DIAL REVOLUTION            MEASURED    DEVATION
      DEVICE               SECONDS                     WATTS       PERCENT
__________________________________________________________

 300 watt
lamp-------------------13.10----------------------274.80--------------8.67
note 1

 150 watt
lamp-------------------24.46----------------------147.18--------------1.88

 100 watt
lamp-------------------36.16------------------------99.55--------------0.45

 60 watt
lamp---------------------60.10------------------------59.90--------------0.2  

 50 watt
lamp---------------------74.38------------------------48.40--------------3.2

 40 watt
lamp---------------------94.00------------------------38.29--------------4.27

 60 watt
fan------------------------62.82-----------------------57.30----------------0.
5
 (inductive load)

 Note 1:  The 300 watt halogen lamp has a dimmer as part
 of the lamp switch. I had it full on but .....don't know if this
 affected the reading. I was not able to bypass the dimmer.

Seems to me that this last test with the 60 watt inductive load shows
that this watt-hour meter will do ok for measuring input power to the
high voltage transformer. This is pretty close to the input power I will
be using.  Comments?

Regards,
Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada

I hope all the colums stay lined up after passing through the mail servers.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 19:09:16 1999
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   >Date:     Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:46:04 -0800
   >From:     mrb ap.net

>Hi vo,

>http://pride-net.com/physics/  is Dr. Robert L. Carroll's posthumous web
>site.

To MRB;

Thx for Carroll's website.  Looks like some interesting stuff there.  I too
started out questioning relativity;  but, I have since become a true believer.
Your comment about 2K cold fusion is potentially important.

As for trans-luminal propulsion, I believe that from the viewpoint of the
travellers, if they can thrust hard enough, they will think that they are
exceeding the velocity of light.  For example, they can reach a star system 10
light years away in less than 5 years (their time).  However, this perception is
based on time slowing down in their frame.  On the otherhand, the limitations of
the speed of sound for aircraft and the hull velocity for sailing ships have
been overcome.  I suspect that, with enough experience at near-c velocities, man
will find a way around this limitation also (if the race survives long enough).

Drew M.

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At 10:01 PM 3/31/99 -0500, you wrote:
>   >Date:     Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:46:04 -0800
>   >From:     mrb ap.net
>
>>Hi vo,
>
>>http://pride-net.com/physics/  is Dr. Robert L. Carroll's posthumous web
>>site.
>
>To MRB;
>
>Thx for Carroll's website.  Looks like some interesting stuff there.  I too
>started out questioning relativity;  but, I have since become a true
believer.
>Your comment about 2K cold fusion is potentially important.
>
>As for trans-luminal propulsion, I believe that from the viewpoint of the
>travellers, if they can thrust hard enough, they will think that they are
>exceeding the velocity of light.  For example, they can reach a star
system 10
>light years away in less than 5 years (their time).  However, this
perception is
>based on time slowing down in their frame.  On the otherhand, the
limitations of
>the speed of sound for aircraft and the hull velocity for sailing ships have
>been overcome.  I suspect that, with enough experience at near-c
velocities, man
>will find a way around this limitation also (if the race survives long
enough).
>
>Drew M.
>
>
Hi Drew,

A younger scientist who has followed Carroll's work for more than 20 years
believes Carrollian Mechanics is fundamentally correct.  He has been
exploring the design of nanotechnology robotic spacecraft that would test
the disagreements with relativity by experiment.

However, in his opinion Carrolls' cosmology is very weak.  

He also argues that the notion of human occupants of transluminal
spacecraft is unlikely due to the incredible acceleration requirements.  

I would think within a decade or two such test vehicles could conceivably
be launched.  

If Carroll proves incorrect his story may make a good flick.

If he is right, humans can robotically begin to explore the Milky Way with
tiny superluminal spacecraft.  

The employment potential alone will be enormous.

Mark 

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VCockeram aol.com wrote:
> 
> I forgot to mention in my post re load tests of the watt-hour meter that I
> plan to
> test the input power to the transformer over a set of different secondary arc
> lengths, say starting at  0.100 inch up to as large as a gap that will sustain
> an arc in open air.  Sound reasonable Frank?
> I will build a precision adjustable spark gap for the test and measure the gap
> with a dial caliper.

Vince, you got me interested in an old "Luminous Tube Transformer" I
have with the following nameplate ratings:

100 volt-amps
Primary --- 120 VAC, 60 Hz 
Secondary --- 5000 VAC, 18 mA

I thought I would find out what I could about this transformer using
just voltmeters, ammeters, and ohm meters.

First, I measured the DC winding resistances:
	Primary ----- 8.6 ohms
	Secondary --- 18,100 ohms

Then, I took no-load measurements with the secondary open:
	Primary volts = 122.1 VAC
	Primary amps  =   0.017 A

Then, I shorted the secondary thru a 1 ohm resistor and:
	Primary volts = 122.0 VAC
	Primary amps  =   0.99 A
	Secondary amps = 0.018 A  (with 0.018 volts across the 1 ohm)

Some interesting calculations:
	No-load primary reactance, X = E/I = 122.1 volts/0.017 amps
					   = 7182 ohms
The inductive reactance, X_L is a "phasor" at right angles to the
resistance, R, so:
	X_L^2 = X^2 - R^2 = 7182^2 - 8.6^2 = about 7182^2
	
	X_L = 7182 ohms (the resistance was too small to matter.)

If the primary inductance is L, then, X_L = 2 * pi * f * L
	or, L = X_L/(2 * pi * f)
	      = 7182/(2 * pi * 60)
	      = 19.05 henrys

The no-load primary copper loss is I^2 * R:
	= 0.017^2 * 8.6 = 0.00248 watts
So, if you had your wattmeter on this no-load test, Vince, any power
you could measure would have to be mostly hysteresis loss in the core.

For the short circuit test:
	Primary copper loss = I^2*R = 0.99^2 * 8.6 = 8.43 watts
	Secondary copper loss = 0.018^2 * 18,100 = 5.86 watts
So, again, if your wattmeter were active on this test, it should have
read 8.48 + 5.86 + more for core losses.

Last, I loaded the secondary with a 10,000 ohm power resistor and got:
	Primary amps = 0.98 A and copper loss = 8.26 watts
	Secondary amps = 0.019 A and copper loss = 6.53 watts
	Secondary volts = 190.2 VAC
	Secondary load power = 190.2 * 0.019 = 3.61 watts.

This may give a hint at some power measurement problems you may face.

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 21:20:10 1999
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At 07:48 PM 3/31/99 EST, VCockeram aol.com wrote:

>I ran tests today to see how the watt-hour meter reading compared
>with several different loads.....

The nameplate wattage on the loads is only approximate and is dependent
upon your line voltage.  I'm amazed it came out as closely as it did on
most of the lamps.  Now you need to repeat the lamp tests with your digital
meters arranged to measure V and I delivered to the load.  With accurate
measurements on the various lamps, you can construct a calibration curve
and use it to correct all watthour meter readings during your
experimentation.  Try to find a 25 watt lamp (maybe there's one in your
fridge) so you can get a wider range of powers.

Just for fun, use the meters on the fan, too.  I predict that its V*I
product is pretty close to 60 watts...when a motor is properly loaded, it
loses most/all of its inductance.

Frank has put forth some worries about your power measurement but I think
you're heading in the right direction.  First of all, the watt hour meter
will properly handle the high power factor that occurs when yr xfmr is
heavily loaded.  You will always see the true power going into the xfmr.
Under some loading conditions, a noticeable fraction of the total input
power will be dissipated in the xfmr but at least that will always make
your input power measurements conservative.  By that I mean that you should
not ever UNDERestimate the power being delivered to your experiment.


Scott Little 
EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

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From: UNIR2B1NM aol.com
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Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:31:53 EST
To: David Crockett Williams <gear2000 lightspeed.net>
Cc: Vince Goetsch <3wishes wishgranted.com>, "Joe Portman Sr." <aaa@texas.net>,
        John Berry <antigrav ihug.co.nz>,
        "Dennis C. Lee" <atech ix.netcom.com>, b25b@LCIA.COM,
        bill basselectronics.com, biotron@pacbell.net, dawnames@hotmail.com,
        donadams telusplanet.net, dwenbert@spacey.net,
        Mattias <elebra hotmail.com>, grstewar@tva.gov, Scudder@aol.com,
        Henry J <Henry.Scudder West.Boeing.com>,
        John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>,
        "Jorg D. Ostrowski" <jdo ucalgary.ca>, johnhoffman@webtv.net,
        lkvp mail.awod.com, Terri Schoolden <manna@blazenet.net>,
        nichols cybrtime.com, oleprospector@worldaccessnet.com,
        Plasmatic <plas dlcwest.com>, powerfd@gte.net,
        Quinney <quinney inforamp.net>, rolfe_hauser@hotmail.com,
        Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au>, Serwitz@aol.com,
        ron kita <tekcorman yahoo.com>, Micheal <transnet@teleport.com>,
        richarda icx.net, trknute@earthlink.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com
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Hi, David--

I received a CC of your 'ALERT' post, and concur with your vision.  Although
I'm currently situated at a distant location (subject to imminent change), we
might compare notes on *methods* of achieving self-sufficiency.  My ideal
survival system paradigm is RV-based (after all, one can always park it).
Hopefully, a comprehensive, near closed-loop system will crystalize from my
among the data-gathering and experimentation. 

A key component not mentioned below will be to maximize *electrical* types of
sterilization.  The following is a call for assistence with other info...

-----------------------

Hi, Candace--

Repeating my solicitation for info:  Is anyone familiar with the high-
efficiency FUEL-ALCOHOL STILL design developed by Robert Warren of the CA
Alcohol Fuel Producers Assn (or equivalent)?  It was sold a few years ago
through the now-defunct Utility Free solar co., complete with an application
for a BATF alcohol license.  Made of 3" copper tubing in a 5' tall, upside
down "U" shape, it was guaranteed to yield 180 proof at the rate of 5 gal/hr.
on the first run!  

Other items of interest:

*  An supplier of affordable, concentrated ENZYMES for liquefying human sewage
(esp. the cellulose & protein content) for direct use as hydroponic nutrient
solution.  This is the fastest & most nutritious methdo for cultivating food
crops, esp. indoors.  

*  Specific plans for a solar panel-powered water electrolyzer, for making
one's own pure oxygen for multifarious health applications (and for making
hydrogen for fuel.  As I mentioned previously, having one’s body saturated
with negative ionic oxygen may be the best *preventative* against ALL chem- &
bio-war agents!)

TIPS FOR TAKING FULLER RESPONSIBILITY FOR ONE'S OWN HEALTH:

If you've never heard the following, learn it now; all-to-prevalent,
degenerative diseases like cancer have CAUSES, and ritual cooking and among
the most ubiquitous are the ritual making of flour & nut dishes.

Anything that CAN sprout (nuts, seeds, *grains*) MUST be sprouted before
eating.  Not only does this augment your food's nutrition ~14X, but dormant
plant forms contain natural *enzyme inhibitors* that will otherwise hinder
digestion & impede metabolism!  Immerse & drain grains, etc. in a jar with
netting (nylon hosiery) over the top; keep in a dark cabinet; change water
twice daily for min. 2 days (allow 6 hrs. of sun prior to eating/drying if
"greening" is desired; however, this may add bitter taste). 

If "flour" is desired, dry & grind the *srouted* plant.  If crisp forms
(cookies, crackers) are desired, make flour paste & dry; for softer texture,
add oil or eat before hardening.  Temperatures over 116 F destroy enzymes
vital for digestion and nutrient utilization!  
Typical cooking destroys 60-100% protein/enzymes; light steaming is less
destructive (freezing is OK; drying is best).  Plants should be consumed
fresh, whole, raw, and (where appropriate) sprouted.  Best preparation method:
make the most of your food quantity, retain all fiber, and waste no nutrients
by liquefying raw produce/sprouts in the *blender* (w/desired seasoning); the
blade will eventually burst every cell wall.  Most of what the "Juiceman" says
is correct except that the centrifugal vegetable juicer--even if expensively
made--is an inherently flawed design.  A similar case exists with the Vita-
Mix; their spiel is veritable but there's no need to spend $3-400 on a
blender!  (Use a grain grinder rather than a 2 HP blender to grind your
sprouts; the Vita-Mix will simultaneously COOK them.)  

It's indispensable to this topic to iterate that decades of studies have
proven that the less you eat (within reason), the healthier you'll be and the
longer you'll live.  Poor digestion is the precursor of all disease.  Wait
until you're really, physically HUNGRY to eat, and stop before you're full.
The fewer foods you mix at any meal, the better they'll digest.  Know
digestive enzyme compatibility: vegetables can be eaten with proteins, or with
fruits, but avoid mixing proteins with fruits. Eat melons alone, only.  And
please extirpate refined sugar from your diet (and esp. your *children's*
diet) irrevocably and resolutely (...save it for making FUEL-ALCOHOL)!    

--Russ

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 22:09:25 1999
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Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:56:10 -0700
From: "Richard T. Murray" <rmforall earthlink.net>
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Subject: FLASH! My one and only cold fusion story.
        Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:18:03 +0200
       From:  Chris Murray <cmurray hrz.tu-chemnitz.deNOSPAM>
 Organization: TU Chemnitz
 Newsgroups:  sci.physics.fusion

Hello group,

I've lurked in and out of this group occasionally over the last 6 months
or so, but I just remembered a story that might make some of you
chuckle.

When I was studying Materials Science in Trinity College Dublin years
ago, the whole cold fusion thing erupted. Of course the media went mad
over the whole thing and public interest was huge. Out of public demand,
and no doubt spotting an opportunity for some free publicity, the
Physics Department decided to give a public lecture on the science
behind cold fusion.

The day came and the crowd was much bigger than I thought it would be,
maybe about 300-400 people - students and other lecturers and I suppose
people from the press.  They filled the physics large lecture theatre
and I believe the technicians even rigged up a TV connection to the
smaller theatre downstairs. I was late for the lecture (as usual) and
the only remaining seat in the large theatre was right in the middle of
the front row.

Prof. Mike Coey was giving the talk, an old hand in magnetism and
superconductivity. He had even set up a little experiment on the desk in
front of him, consisting of a few beakers, bits of metal, wires and a
couple of thermometers. He explained that he had loaded some Pd with
hydrogen and would now look for the reaction. He said that if the
reaction worked, one could expect to see a temperature rise in the
fusion cell over the control cell. There were little lead bricks
surrounding the experiment, presumably to stop any radiation which might
escape. The was a little unnerving as my seat meant that I was sitting
about 5 feet from the thing!

Anyway, he started the experiment and proceeded to give the main part of
the talk. Interesting stuff, specially the bit about the original
discoverers' experimental meltdown! The came the big moment - did the
desktop experiment work!?

The crowd went expectantly quiet. Mike was having a little difficulty
reading the exact temperatures from the thermometers and had to stick
his head right into the guts of the experiment to have a good look.
Unfortunately I decided that this would be a good time to take a photo.
I grabbed my ancient Zenith camera, switched on the flash and ......POP!
Poor Mike must have had a bit of a fright when all of a sudden there was
a blinding flash of light! It must have seemed like the whole bloody
thing had gone off! The crowd were pretty amused, although I don't think
Mike was too impressed.

Funny thing was that the experiment had actually produced a positive
result! The temperature was higher in the fusion cell!

Pity the bloody photograph wasn't in focus!

Chris

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 23:20:53 1999
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Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:14:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Schaffer <schaffermj yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: H2 w/K glow discharge
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VCockeram aol.com wrote:

>This is not a neon sign transformer Michael,  it is as oil burner ignition
>transformer
>with the following specifications:  Primary 120 volts 250 VA  Secondary
>10kV 23 mA.

Oops! I forgot. However, as has already been pointed out by others, the two
kinds of high voltage, low current transformers are pretty similar. The main
difference, I suspect, is that the oil burner ignition transformer is rated
for intermittent use, while neon sigh transformers are rated for continuous
use. The oil burner one might overheat if you run it for a while, even at
its rated load.

As I remember, your experiments last year ran several tens of watts, maybe
close to 100 W at times, at several hundred volts and 0.1 amp or more
current. You won't get this kind of current out of your low current ignition
transformer. You don't seem to be on the path to doing an AC equivalent of
your previous DC experiment. I think you need to use the transformer from
the DC power supply you used last year. Consider adding a choke inductance
to limit the current surges.
===
Michael J. Schaffer


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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 23:27:58 1999
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Subject: RE: Particle in field
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Henry Scudder wrote:

>A related question is: What is the path of the conduction electrons inside
>of a current carrying real conductor? There is a longitudinal electric
>field
>because of the resistance of the wire, as well as the circular magnetic
>field due to the current in the  wire.

The electron collides so frequently with the lattice that it never comes
close at all to completing a gyro orbit in a practical magnetic field. Its
motion is dominated by collisions (in the classical picture). However, the
small v x B force does show up, as the Hall effect.
===
Michael J. Schaffer


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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 31 23:31:42 1999
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From: Michael Schaffer <schaffermj yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Table-Top fusion
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This doesn't seem to have anything to do with the conventional "inertial
confinement" thermonuclear fusion system, wherein an intense laser pulse
compresses and heats a small capsule (few mm diameter) to near fusion
conditions.

> The experiment spritzes a jet of deuterium gas - deuterium is a heavy
> form of hydrogen - into a vacuum chamber. The cold gas clumps into
> clusters of several hundred to several thousand atoms each.
> A barrage of laser light, each pulse lasting a mere 35 millionths of
> billionth of a second, blows up the clusters and sends deuterium atoms
> flying apart.
> "You might imagine that ions ejected from neighboring clusters
> might collide," says Livermore physicist Todd Ditmire, "and with some
> non-insignificant probability produce [deuterium-deuterium] fusion."
> When two deuterium atoms fuse together, into helium they release a
> flash of energy - it's the same process that produces the light and heat
> coming from the sun.
> "So we looked to see if we were producing fusion neutrons,"
> Ditmire says, "and lo and behold, we were."
> With each laser pulse, about 10,000 neutrons cascaded out.
> Fast-moving neutrons are the telltale sign that fusion is occurring.
> Ditmire presented the findings March 23 at the centennial meeting of
> the American Physical Society.
===
Michael J. Schaffer


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