From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 1 11:12:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA24797; Sat, 1 May 1999 11:11:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 11:11:53 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 09:24:58 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: test Resent-Message-ID: <"5dYfH.0.N36.eFqAt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27151 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If you see this - sorry, just checking to see if my ISP service outage unsubscribed me. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 1 12:08:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA05152; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:03:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 12:03:43 -0700 Message-ID: <372B4F4A.B8A50667 earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 13:00:26 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: EHD/ T.T. Brown Engine, "Neutrino" Driven? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HCknc2.0.MG1.F0rAt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27152 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex The presence of about 500 "Neutrinos"/cm^3 at sea level with a negative charge the same as that of an electron would allow attachment of enough on the positive "Capacitor" plate to neutralize it, but would continuously exert a repulsive force on the negative plate, thus driving the unit in the direction of the positive plate. With an Electron Affinity of about 0.5 ev the O2 molecules in air would carry the "Neutrinos" (Probably Energy Depleted Solar Neutrinos) thus adding additional momentum above what could be gotten from the "neutrinos" which have a rest mass/energy of about 9.1E-37 Kg. In a low pressure environment ( soft vacuum) the extended Mean Free Path (MFP) should be about a meter at 1.0E-6 Torr or about a millimeter at a millitorr, the effect should still persist. However in Space with the estimated 2.0E8 "Neutrinos"/Meter^3 it calculates out to about a kilogram /meter^2 /52 Billion Light Years. :-) Tricky little things, aren't they? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 1 14:35:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA17503; Sat, 1 May 1999 14:34:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 14:34:45 -0700 Message-ID: <372B727F.4281FB0C earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 15:30:42 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: PC Board Electrostatic Rotor Experiment Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1iT8e.0.PH4.rDtAt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27153 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex One might do something similar to the T.T. Brown Effect by taking PC Boards laminated on both sides and removing a strip of the copper down the middle, then mounting them on a axle with them 90 degrees wrt each other with the conductive surfaces of each polarity jumpered together: + | - | | | | -_______________________________+ + | | | | - | + With boards of suitable size and a high enough voltage it Should Rotate in the direction of the + polarity in air or a soft vacuum. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 1 21:11:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA01582; Sat, 1 May 1999 21:10:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 21:10:06 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990502000640.00d7de30 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 00:06:40 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Cold Fusion Times v.7 n.2 out, web site updated Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ML0pf.0.aO.U0zAt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27154 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vorts: The COLD FUSION TIMES Spring 1999 is out, and should be in readers hands later this week. The web site is updated http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html with the cover page of the most recent issue here http://world.std.com/~mica/cftnew.html Updated refs on cold fusion are here http://world.std.com/~mica/cftrefs.html Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 2 10:59:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA22495; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:58:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 10:58:35 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: test Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 14:02:03 -0400 Message-ID: <19990502180203531.AAA65 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"fUNh7.0.OV5.B99Bt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27155 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: test >If you see this - sorry, just checking to see if my ISP service outage >unsubscribed me. > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner > > > Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 2 11:48:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA01441; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:46:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 11:46:39 -0700 Message-ID: <19990502184643.787.rocketmail web105.yahoomail.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 11:46:43 -0700 (PDT) From: ron kita Subject: Details/Battleship-Size UFO To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"7xlsv.0.RM.Fs9Bt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27156 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --- Ron kita wrote: > Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 11:38:40 -0700 (PDT) > From: Ron kita > Subject: Fwd: Battleship Size UFO > To: tekcorman yahoo.com > CC: gravity voicenet.com > > > > > > > > ---Mark Hall wrote: > > > > Ron, > > > > I'll attach the two newspaper articles from The > Daily Mirror and Daily Express newspapers. > > > > Regards, > > > > Mark Hall > > UFO Community On MSN > > http://communities.msn.com/ufo/ > > >
> Transitional//EN"> > > http-equiv=Content-Type> > > > > >
Ron,
>
 
>
I'll attach the two newspaper > articles from The Daily Mirror > and Daily Express newspapers.
>
 
>
Regards,
>
 
> > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 name=Jet Crew > Tell > Of Close Encounter With UFO - Daily Mirror 27th > April > 1999.mht > >
> Transitional//EN"> > Online Mirror > http-equiv=Content-Type> > > > content="Mirror, The Mirror, Sunday Mirror, > Newspaper, Tabloid, UK, News, Sport" > name=keywords> > content="The interactive daily-updated edition of > The > Mirror, Sunday Mirror." > name=description> > name=GENERATOR> > background=http://www.mirror.co.uk/graphics/bg03.gif > > bgColor=#ffffff link=#cc0000 text=#000000 > vLink=#4a4a4a> href="http://ads.mirrormedia.co.uk/click.ng/site=mirror&mpage=article&mcontent=news&uid=F2804934" > > target=_top> src="http://ads.mirrormedia.co.uk/image.ng/site=mirror&mpage=article&mcontent=news&uid=F2804934"> > > >

> > > > >
News height=55 hspace=0 > > src="http://www.mirror.co.uk/graphics/news02.gif" > width=350>
> > > >
face="helvetica, arial" size=-1> >

JET CREW TELL OF CLOSE ENCOUNTER > WITH > UFO

A > PASSENGER jet's crew have reported a > close encounter with an > unidentified flying object. >

They said that they noticed an > "incandescent" light below their > Debonair BAe 146 as it headed over the > North Sea from Sweden to > Humberside. >

Then, they added, a long cylindrical > silver-coloured object the > size of a battleship flew alongside. The > British plane's shocked > captain saw what seemed to be rows of > square portholes on the UFO > before it vanished at "enormous speed". >

The crew told the Defence Ministry > about their sighting. An RAF > radar station tracked the object, which > was seen from three other > planes. >

 
 
>

>
> href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/news.htm" > target=main>News | href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport.htm" > target=main>Sport | > href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/home/contacts.htm" > target=main>Contacts | > href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/cgi-bin/netoutcome.cgi?redeye_url=../mainpage.htm" > > target=main>Home
> href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/wright.htm" > target=main>The Wright > Stuff | href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/stories/dmstars.html" > target=main>Justin Toper | > href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/stories/dmvoice.html" > target=main>Voice Of The Mirror >
> href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/stories/dmaunt.html" > target=main>Miriam Stoppard | > href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/victor.htm" > target=main>Victor > Lewis-Smith
> href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/features/features.htm" > > target=main>Features | > href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/screen/screen.htm" > target=main>Screen | > href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/mega/home.htm" > target=main>Mega >
> >
>
face="helvetica, arial" size=1>© MGN, > Ltd, 1997, (0171-293-3000)
One > Canada > Square, Canary Wharf, > London, E14 5AP >
 
width=130>
 
href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/forum/index.htm" > target=_top> alt="Online Mirror Forum" border=0 height=65 > hspace=2 > > src="http://www.mirror.co.uk/graphics/forum.gif" > vspace=5 > width=90>

 
> href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/stories/dmvoice.html" > target=_parent> alt="Voice Of The Mirror" border=0 height=45 > hspace=2 > > src="http://www.mirror.co.uk/graphics/voice.gif" > vspace=5 > width=90>
  >

>

>

>

> > > ATTACHMENT part 2.2 application/octet-stream > > > ATTACHMENT part 2.3 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 2.4 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 2.5 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 2.6 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3 message/rfc822 name=Pilot Tells > Of His Close Encounter With A UFO - Daily Express > 27th April 1999.mht > >
> Transitional//EN"> > The Express > http-equiv=Content-Type> > content='(PICS-1.0 > "http://www.rsac.org/ratingsv01.html" l gen true > comment "RSACi North America Server" by > "chris.lloyd lineone.net" for > "http://www.lineone.net/" on "1996.04.16T08:15-0500" > exp "2010.07.01T08:15-0500" r (n 0 s 0 v 0 l 0))' > http-equiv=PICS-Label> > name=GENERATOR> frameBorder=0 frameSpacing=0 rows=0,*> frameBorder=no marginHeight=0 > marginWidth=0 name=blank noResize scrolling=no > src="http://www.lineone.net/express/blank.html"> frameBorder=no > marginHeight=0 marginWidth=0 name=body noResize > src="http://www.lineone.net/express/99/04/27/news/n1620ufo-d.html"> > >
> Transitional//EN"> > The Express > http-equiv=Content-Type> > content='(PICS-1.0 > "http://www.rsac.org/ratingsv01.html" l gen true > comment "RSACi North America Server" by > "chris.lloyd lineone.net" for > "http://www.lineone.net/" on "1996.04.16T08:15-0500" > exp "2010.07.01T08:15-0500" r (n 0 s 0 v 0 l 0))' > http-equiv=PICS-Label> > name=GENERATOR> > > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.2 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.3 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.4 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.5 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.6 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.7 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.8 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.9 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.10 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.11 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.12 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.13 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.14 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.15 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.16 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.17 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.18 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.19 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.20 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.21 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.22 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.23 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.24 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.25 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.26 image/gif > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.27 image/gif > >
> Transitional//EN"> > Pilot tells of his close > encounter > with a UFO > http-equiv=Content-Type> > content='(PICS-1.0 > "http://www.rsac.org/ratingsv01.html" l gen true > comment "RSACi North America Server" by > "chris.lloyd lineone.net" for > "http://www.lineone.net/" on "1996.04.16T08:15-0500" > exp "2010.07.01T08:15-0500" r (n 0 s 0 v 0 l 0))' > http-equiv=PICS-Label> > > > > > > > > > > > name=GENERATOR> > link=#000000 onload=init(); > text=#000000 topMargin=0 vLink=#000000> name=#maintop> > width=727> > > > > > > > >
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Mini
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width=600> face="verdana, arial, helvetica" > size=4>Pilot tells of his > close encounter with a UFO > face="verdana, arial, helvetica" > size=2>
By Simon Bird >

A > BRITISH charter jet has had a > close > encounter with a UFO said > to be "the size of a battleship". >

The shocked pilot and crew of a > Debonair BAe146 plane > reported being buzzed by "a long > cylindrical object" as they > flew over the North Sea. >

Three other pilots have also > independently logged seeing > the bright object 58 miles off the > coast of Denmark. >

Last night the Civil Aviation > Authority confirmed a > comprehensive report of the > pilot's > sighting had been > received. >

The report says the captain and > crew first became aware of > the object after the underside of > the plane was immersed in > "an incandescent light". >

A CAA spokeswoman said: "The > captain reported seeing an > unnatural bright light below his > aircraft while flying at > 28,000ft. The area below him was > illuminated for about 10 > seconds by incandescent light and > it was certainly not a light > from another plane. >

"Three other aircraft saw it > moving at a high speed or > static. However, air traffic > control were informed and they > confirmed that there were no other > planes in the vicinity. >

"Then, five minutes later, > there > was a brief radar return > from a spot 75 miles away. We > believe there was no danger > involved." >

The Luton-based 96-seater plane > was flying company > executives from Linkoping, Sweden, > to Humberside airport. A > spokesman for Debonair, which runs > cut-price flights > throughout Europe, said chief > executive Franco Mancassola had > been informed that a "great red > light in the sky" had been > spotted near one of the company's > planes. >

At one stage, the report says, > the object came to an abrupt > halt before accelerating past the > airliner at thousands of > miles an hour. >

A CAA source says the object > was > tracked by a military > radar station in Yorkshire after > it > entered UK air space. >

A spokesman for the 6,000 > member > British Pilots Association > said: "We get reports of this > nature from our members but they > are few and far between. >

"In the past 10 years or so I > would say there have been > around six cases of UFO's being > sighted. >

"Many pilots are reluctant to > make such claims because it > tends to lay them open to > ridicule. > So when they do go as far > as making a report we do expect it > to be given credence."A > spokesman for the Ministry of > Defence insisted there were no > military aircraft in the area > adding: "We saw nothing."
> href="http://www.lineone.net/express/express_copyright.html"> > size=1>© Express Newspapers > Ltd
 
>

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> > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free yahoo.com address at > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 2 12:07:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA05715; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:06:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 12:06:30 -0700 Message-ID: <19990502190939.345.rocketmail web116.yahoomail.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 12:09:39 -0700 (PDT) From: ron kita Subject: More on Battleship size UFO To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"rtp6k3.0.DP1.r8ABt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27157 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I posted two requests for information the British sighting to alt.paranet.ufo and uk.rec.ufo I received a response from capn_black msn.com aka Mark Hall (he has the info)...his response came into my gravity voicenet.com e-mail account....as do all my newsgroups posts. WHAT IS ODD THAT HIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN TOTALLY REMOVED from my e-mail account within one hour!!!!!!!!! Will post a message on the NSA ESCHELON PROJECT to Vortex Best, Ron Kita _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 2 12:09:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA07210; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:08:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 12:08:51 -0700 Message-ID: <19990502191201.569.rocketmail web116.yahoomail.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 12:12:01 -0700 (PDT) From: ron kita Subject: : Eschelon is watching]] To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"t-nVT.0.Vm1.2BABt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27158 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --- Ron Kita wrote: > Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 14:57:04 -0700 > From: Ron Kita > Reply-to: gravity voicenet.com > To: tekcorman yahoo.com > Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Eschelon is watching]] > > ATTACHMENT part TEXT message/rfc822 > Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 08:34:03 -0700 > From: Ron Kita > Reply-to: gravity voicenet.com > To: leblanc intersurf.com > CC: war , bruzasvd@mpco.com, > Tom Valone , v2058a@vm.temple.edu, > schuessler mho.net, mrb@ap.net, Ron > , > robert skylink.net, rlschlicher@uswest.net, PMC > , > Paul Murad , pasicnyk > , > barrows easy-pages.net, lens@enter.net, > hawksmoor netscape.net, > gravity voicenet.com, franklin_mead@ple.af.mil, > Fran , esturm37@aol.com, > DE , cox > , > Charles Yost > Subject: [Fwd: Eschelon is watching] > > ATTACHMENT part 0.TEXT message/news _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 2 14:02:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA27995; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:01:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 14:01:15 -0700 Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 14:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905022100.OAA02911 franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: danq blue.ucdavis.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Dan Quickert Subject: Re: More on Battleship size UFO Resent-Message-ID: <"8JTUw1.0.Fr6.RqBBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27159 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ron, BOTH OF YOUR MESSAGES WERE TOTALLY REMOVED from my e-mail account within two minutes!!!!!!!! by me... thank goodness for delete buttons. One of your messages was about 40K of mostly HTML, Javascript and missing attached images. The other (below) refers to what appears to be some paranoia about your e-mail? You must be one important dude for someone to be reading and selectively deleting your e-mail for you. Perhaps a more technical analysis of the deleted e-mail problem would be beneficial. Dan Quickert -----Original Message----- From: ron kita Sent: Sunday, May 02, 1999 12:10 PM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: More on Battleship size UFO I posted two requests for information the British sighting to alt.paranet.ufo and uk.rec.ufo I received a response from capn_black msn.com aka Mark Hall (he has the info)...his response came into my gravity voicenet.com e-mail account....as do all my newsgroups posts. WHAT IS ODD THAT HIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN TOTALLY REMOVED from my e-mail account within one hour!!!!!!!!! Will post a message on the NSA ESCHELON PROJECT to Vortex Best, Ron Kita From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 3 01:33:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA15259; Mon, 3 May 1999 01:32:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 01:32:06 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Message-ID: <59a32b97.245eb8d2 aol.com> Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 04:31:14 EDT Subject: EHD Project Mirror Site... To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Resent-Message-ID: <"NZMew.0.Hk3.6yLBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27160 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, If you have some problems to connect to my Advanced Propulsion dedicated web site, you can also use my miror site at: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/7014/html/advprop.htm Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 3 10:30:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA06033; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:27:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:27:38 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:40:40 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Wired report about CNE Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id KAA06007 Resent-Message-ID: <"e7uCR1.0.BU1.9oTBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27161 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: An interesting "Wired" report on new energy can be found at: It is a report on the Conference on New Energy as described at: The reported was really fascinated with David Wallmans carbon arc pyrolysis of sugar water experiment, but pretty well slammed the other areas he addressed. Here is some material quoted from the article, with my comments in brackets: "David Wallman deftly slides the dark glass shield into place in front of his carbon-arc machine and tells his audience to step away. "Don't look directly at it from the side," Wallman warns. He flips a switch. The light is blinding. The machine begins to bubble and froth as 40 amps of current leap the gap between two carbon rods and electrify the sugar water that fills the tank." [OK - this sounds like the standard pyrolysis discussed on vortex at length for months, and published in Infinite Energy.] "Those very special bubbles -- Wallman calls them carbo-hydrogen gas -- will, he hopes, change the world. When burned, the gas produces much less pollution than gasoline, and it may prove cheaper to manufacture. The former Hewlett-Packard electrical engineer rattles off a laundry list of possible uses by consumers and industry. A clean new fuel for cars. Revolutionary power generation. A supplement to solar panels for remote homesteaders." [Unless Wallman has added something innovative, he seems to have missed that the gas is mostly carbon monoxide?] "But the most intriguing result of Wallman's demonstration is that it seems to violate the laws of physics by generating more energy than it consumes." [Calorimetry on this should be interesting. Looking forward to detailed reports, especially regarding estimates of the chemical energy of the carbon and sugar consumed.] "If Wallman's calculations are correct, the only explanation is that some form of a small-scale nuclear reaction is taking place inside that bubbling tank. Serious scientists have admitted they can't explain the results in any other way, especially the presence of helium in the gas -- an element that didn't exist in the sugar-water solution. If it works, Wallman's process would not quite be cold fusion, since the temperatures in that brilliant carbon arc reach 7,200° F. Perhaps it's cool fusion instead." [The presence of helium sounds very interesting too. Can't wait to hear and read about this.] Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 3 12:43:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25508; Mon, 3 May 1999 12:42:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 12:42:08 -0700 Message-ID: <372DFB20.8F06B7FF earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 13:38:10 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Arc Hydrolysis of Sugar Water Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sAuUh1.0.QE6.GmVBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27162 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace's post on the Wired article implied a "new" free energy source. Thermochemical conversion (Hydrolysis) of Biomass is routine and always gets more energy out in the form of combustible gases: Sugar, Sucrose C12H22O11 + H2O ----> 2 C6H12O6 (glucose & fructose) 2 C6H12O6 + 13 H2O + heat (325 deg C) ----> 12 CO2 + 24 H2 + exotherm energy. Cellulose, a glucose polymer does the same thing, this why the gigatons of cellulisic materials in agricultural wastes can be used as a hydrogen or ethanol source without adding to the CO2 burden in the atmosphere. Using electrical power at 25% efficiency to do something that can be done directly with a high pressure flame-fired system, is a waste of money and energy. :-) Check out www.nrel.gov or www.pnl.gov this stuff is old hat. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 3 12:50:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA05669; Mon, 3 May 1999 12:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 12:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <372DFB7A.6DF0D549 ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 13:39:43 -0600 From: storms2 Organization: Energy K System X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wired report about CNE References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uUNiV1.0.UO1.tqVBt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27163 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > An interesting "Wired" report on new energy can be found at: > > > > It is a report on the Conference on New Energy as described at: > > > > The reported was really fascinated with David Wallmans carbon arc pyrolysis > of sugar water experiment, but pretty well slammed the other areas he > addressed. > > Here is some material quoted from the article, with my comments in brackets: > > "David Wallman deftly slides the dark glass shield into place in front of > his carbon-arc machine and tells his audience to step away. "Don't look > directly at it from the side," Wallman warns. He flips a switch. The light > is blinding. The machine begins to bubble and froth as 40 amps of current > leap the gap between two carbon rods and electrify the sugar water that > fills the tank." > > [OK - this sounds like the standard pyrolysis discussed on vortex at length > for months, and published in Infinite Energy.] > > "Those very special bubbles -- Wallman calls them carbo-hydrogen gas -- > will, he hopes, change the world. When burned, the gas produces much less > pollution than gasoline, and it may prove cheaper to manufacture. The > former Hewlett-Packard electrical engineer rattles off a laundry list of > possible uses by consumers and industry. A clean new fuel for cars. > Revolutionary power generation. A supplement to solar panels for remote > homesteaders." > > [Unless Wallman has added something innovative, he seems to have missed > that the gas is mostly carbon monoxide?] > > "But the most intriguing result of Wallman's demonstration is that it seems > to violate the laws of physics by generating more energy than it consumes." > > [Calorimetry on this should be interesting. Looking forward to detailed > reports, especially regarding estimates of the chemical energy of the > carbon and sugar consumed.] > > "If Wallman's calculations are correct, the only explanation is that some > form of a small-scale nuclear reaction is taking place inside that bubbling > tank. > > Serious scientists have admitted they can't explain the results in any > other way, especially the presence of helium in the gas -- an element that > didn't exist in the sugar-water solution. If it works, Wallman's process > would not quite be cold fusion, since the temperatures in that brilliant > carbon arc reach 7,200° F. Perhaps it's cool fusion instead." > > [The presence of helium sounds very interesting too. Can't wait to hear and > read about this.] > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner Dear Horace, I have to wonder whether the author of the above article actually attended the New Energy Conference. I sat through all of the papers and would not recognize the description. First, David Wallman produces COH2 which is a compound, not a mixture of CO and H2. This compound contains more energy than does a mixture of the gases. No claims were made for excess energy, only that the energy of this compound is greater than than of the gas mixture. No claims were made for cold or warm fusion. However, a similar device using K2CO3 in the solution is found to produce anomalous nuclear products. As far as I know, these have not been found in the Wallman apparatus. His claims for helium are not based on mass spectrometry but on a gas chromatograph. He does not base any weight on these measurements and did not mention them in his talk. Paul Pantone did not run a lawnmower and did not demonstrate the use of soda pop, although he claimed this and other liquids can be used. The item demonstrated was a standard generator which is being sold through a dealer and which is designed to run using gasoline, kerosene or diesel fuel. Paul Pantone is obviously a good engineer but a poor scientist. He does not claim a background in science, which is obvious, and he tends to provide off the wall explanations. Nevertheless, the design does allow various fuels to be used in the same engine. However, I suspect while soda pop will allow a warmed engine to idle, as he has demonstrated at other gatherings, it will not provide enough energy for full power operation. There is nothing mysterious about the design, it is a simple preheater for the fuel which allows for a higher efficiency. In fact the device is so commonplace, I wonder why he was at this conference. The information about UFO's shown by Dr. Greer was clearly presented, not out of focus, and is consistent with information being developed by many other sources. Granted, the claims are hard to believe but the evidence is overwhelming. Are we to ignore and make fun of everything which is hard to believe regardless of the evidence? Apparently the writer thinks so. This article is another example of an uninformed writer trying to write a cute piece which fits with the conventional attitude, a very safe but essentially dishonest approach. It's too bad Wired dilutes its reputation with such low-powered information. Edmund Storms From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 3 16:41:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA18102; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:39:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 16:39:13 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 14:52:22 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Wired report about CNE Resent-Message-ID: <"FuFRp3.0.hQ4.XEZBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27164 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 1:39 PM 5/3/99, storms2 wrote: [snip] >I have to wonder whether the author of the above article actually attended the >New >Energy Conference. I sat through all of the papers and would not recognize the >description. > >First, David Wallman produces COH2 which is a compound, not a mixture of CO and >H2. This is a surprise to me. I was under the impression such a process would tend to produce mostly CO and H2, and thus is dangerous without proper precautions. My expectation in that regard was probably from a carbon arc in water process, which produces a gas called "AquaFuel" as described in US Patent number 5,435,274, according to "Infinite Energy" Vol. 2, No. 9, 1996, which had a good article about it and a copy of the patent. The front cover of that issue of IE contains an impressive picture of an arc in an aquarium bubbling up enough of the gas that it is collected by an upside down funnel over the aquarium that appears to be maintaining a good sized flame at the tip of the funnel. Also of interest noted there was the composition of the AquaFuel: Compound Percent --------------- ------- Hydrogen 46.483 Carbon dioxide 9.329 Ethylene 0.049 Acetylene 0.616 Oxygen 1.164 Nitrogen 3.818 Methane 0.181 Carbon Monoxide 38.370 ======= Total 100.015 Hydrolysing hydrocarbons I take it shifts towards production of COH2. [snip] >K2CO3 in the solution is found to produce anomalous nuclear products. As far >as I know, >these have not been found in the Wallman apparatus. His claims for helium are >not based on mass spectrometry but on a gas chromatograph. He does not base >any weight on these measurements and did not mention them in his talk. [snip] Helium measurment by gas chromatogaph sounds very suspect. Makes me wonder if this topic is avoided in presentations but touted in private discussion? >This article is another >example of an uninformed writer trying to write a cute piece which fits with >the conventional attitude, a very safe but essentially dishonest approach. [snip] This is so sad, but characteristic of the typically uniformed press. Whenever I have seen press coverage of an event I have witnessed I find it hard to believe it got so messed up. I wonder if it is in part due to even less informed editors rewording things to look right, but working in a vacuum and without regard to subtle changes in meaning. Thank you for a firsthand report. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 3 17:01:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA27342; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:59:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 16:59:47 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wired report about CNE Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 23:59:44 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <372e382c.322942182 mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA27314 Resent-Message-ID: <"37ozb3.0.7h6.oXZBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27165 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 3 May 1999 14:52:22 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote: [snip] >This is so sad, but characteristic of the typically uniformed press. >Whenever I have seen press coverage of an event I have witnessed I find it >hard to believe it got so messed up. I wonder if it is in part due to even >less informed editors rewording things to look right, but working in a >vacuum and without regard to subtle changes in meaning. > >Thank you for a firsthand report. [snip] I wonder if it's worth sending a corrected version of the article back to the editors ;> Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 3 17:44:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA08957; Mon, 3 May 1999 17:43:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 17:43:00 -0700 Message-ID: <372E41BF.259C8487 earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 18:39:30 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wired report about CNE References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wCSBL1.0.tB2.KAaBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27166 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > At 1:39 PM 5/3/99, storms2 wrote: > [snip] > > > > >First, David Wallman produces COH2 which is a compound, not a mixture of CO and > >H2. COH2, Formaldehyde, the first compound formed with hydrogenation of CO followed by hydrogenation of COH2 to Methanol CH3OH, followed by hydrogenation to CH4 + H2O. :-) [snip] > >K2CO3 in the solution is found to produce anomalous nuclear products. As far > >as I know, > >these have not been found in the Wallman apparatus. His claims for helium are > >not based on mass spectrometry but on a gas chromatograph. He does not base > >any weight on these measurements and did not mention them in his talk. > [snip] > > Interesting, K2CO3 has been the solution catalyst of choice for aqueous hydrolysis > of Biomass for decades since Potassium makes up about 1% of the dry weight of > plants anyhow. It tends to play havoc with the alumina-supported nickel used in > the CH4-CO2 aqueous hydrolysis reactors though. Regards, Frederick > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 3 19:53:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16608; Mon, 3 May 1999 19:50:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 19:50:31 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 22:48:40 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: H2 Calibration To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"RXYct2.0.Q34.t1cBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27167 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All, I have been busy modifying the vacuum system with the addition of a MKS Instruments 600 series absolute capacitance manometer, model 626A. I have completed it's attachment to the vacuum manifold and today completed building the digital readout module. This also required I come up with two 15 volt regulated power supplies that supply power to the capacitance pressure sensor and a 9 VDC that supplies power to the digital meter assembly. The sensor is the 1000 torr model so now my vacuum reading will be accurate to + /- 0.25% of the reading. Much better than the Ashcroft gauges which were only good for + /- 12.0 torr or so. The MKS 626A sensor output is from 0 to 10 volts directly related to the pressure at the sensor port in Torr. I wired the digital readout to give me pressure readings that will be very accurate to plus or minus1 torr. This is a real step up for me getting accurate vacuum readings. The digital readout module that I constructed was calibrated with two digital meters and a precision Hewlett Packard variable power supply. (constant voltage) One other problem to solve regarding the temperature sensor which is a K-Type bead thermocouple. At higher power inputs to the reactor tube the high voltage interferes with the thermocouple reading. Two possibilities here, one, a grounded shield for the thermocouple or, two, isolate the thermocouple from the tube with a nonconductive ceramic shoe that would fit the tube tightly. I'll try both as I want accurate, steady and repeatable temperature measurements. Comments and/or suggestions most welcome. Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas Nevada 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 4 05:58:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA02719; Tue, 4 May 1999 05:57:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 05:57:52 -0700 From: "Ed Wall" To: Subject: RE: Wired report about CNE Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:58:49 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be962d$da6501e0$d04f7dc7 computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"tNl9v3.0.Lg.FxkBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27168 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace, > Helium measurment by gas chromatogaph sounds very suspect. Makes > me wonder > if this topic is avoided in presentations but touted in private > discussion? I have seen David Wallman present helium data to an audience (INE3) and discuss it in private. During this conference, he did not mention it during his talk, but was explicit about the chromotographic nature of the evidence in private conversation. He said that the lab that did the work suggested that further work would be necessary to establish a firm claim of significant helium presence. He told us that he tested gas that had been stored for years and found that there was no appreciable helium concentration (same test method) and that the gas had otherwise not changed. This would support the chromographic test method, given that helium would be expected to leak. He knows the evidence for helium is weak. He is more interested in development of a useful process than performing a full scientific investigation, but would certainly like to see it done. As far as Ca found in the Ransford cell, a new set of runs was completed and results on ICP-MS analysis are pending. We are certainly aware of the ubiquity of calcium and took steps to avoid contamination. I will post data when we have it. Ed Wall New Energy Research Laboratory Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Bow, NH 03302-2816 (603) 226-4822 fax 224-5975 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 4 07:42:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA02863; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:41:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 07:41:07 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 05:54:10 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: RE: Wired report about CNE Resent-Message-ID: <"vPRnN1.0.ei.2SmBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27169 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 8:58 AM 5/4/99, Ed Wall wrote: [snip] >I have seen David Wallman present helium data to an audience (INE3) and >discuss it in private. During this conference, he did not mention it during >his talk, but was explicit about the chromotographic nature of the evidence >in private conversation. Any notion of how much helium? Must be a lot to be detected chromatographically. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 4 07:47:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA05590; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:46:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 07:46:24 -0700 From: "Ed Wall" To: Subject: RE: Wired report about CNE Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:47:24 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be963d$05986f00$d24f7dc7 computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"9oTIw3.0.FN1._WmBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27170 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Any notion of how much helium? Must be a lot to be detected > chromatographically. 60 ppm comes to mind, but I have nothing written down. Ed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 4 07:49:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA06833; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:47:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 07:47:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199905041446.KAA11874 mercury.mv.net> Subject: RE: Wired report about CNE Date: Tue, 4 May 99 10:46:10 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"qolpy1.0.hg1.yXmBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27171 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ed Wall wrote, >I have seen David Wallman present helium data to an audience (INE3) and >discuss it in private. During this conference, he did not mention it during >his talk, but was explicit about the chromotographic nature of the evidence >in private conversation. I must correct what my colleague has wirtten above -- Wallman DID discuss the helium results iin public. Perhaps Ed had slipped out at that moment for a cup of coffee.... > He said that the lab that did the work suggested >that further work would be necessary to establish a firm claim of >significant helium presence. Yes, that was said. > He told us that he tested gas that had been >stored for years and found that there was no appreciable helium >concentration (same test method) and that the gas had otherwise not changed. In one case it was 60 ppm -- much higher than atmospheric 5.22 ppm. >This would support the chromographic test method, given that helium would be >expected to leak. He knows the evidence for helium is weak. He is more >interested in development of a useful process than performing a full >scientific investigation, but would certainly like to see it done. > >As far as Ca found in the Ransford cell, a new set of runs was completed and >results on ICP-MS analysis are pending. We are certainly aware of the >ubiquity of calcium and took steps to avoid contamination. I will post data >when we have it. The anomalous non-diffusion of Carbo-Hydrogen gas out of mylar bags over periods of months and the over-unity results by Wallman and Dammen as reported in IE stand untill an error is found in them. They are provisional results, but they are very well done. Gene Mallove From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 4 09:16:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA04932; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:07:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:07:47 -0700 Message-ID: <372F1A78.46682EDC earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 10:04:09 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: D2O/H2O K2CO3 Reflux Capsules (Heat Pipe Gas Separators) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xi_2R3.0.wC1.JjnBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27172 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex The 170 to 300 C temperature range used by Dr. Case and the results coming from Wallman's experiments suggest that Reflux Capsules (Wick less Heat Pipes) containing D2O or H2O and K2CO3 , with or without organic compounds can be employed as gas separators and calorimeters will in operation. Capsules designed to withstand Subcritical D2O/H2O temperatures and pressures can be heated at the bottom end and water-cooled at the top with circulating coolant water at the top acting as a calorimeter and concurrently the vapor stream inside will push any non-condensible gases to the top in the "Pipes" at their operating pressure, where it can be bled off and analyzed, whether it be Helium, Hydrocarbons, Hydrinos, or whatever. Pulling a vacuum on the capsules before applying heat should remove most of the air and helium. This approach was used for Hydrolysis of Biomass (without calorimetry) and is simple to do as long as the bleed valve is a high pressure needle valve which gives fine control of the gas bleed. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 4 09:43:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA16368; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:41:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:41:32 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990504123911.007a7b60 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 12:39:11 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Miley's comments on May 1 Workshop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"kC5L32.0.g_3.xCoBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27173 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For the last few months I have been learning about George Miley's latest results with thin film cathodes, which continues to be quite promising. The excess heat and nuclear effects are 100% reproducible. His group has made considerable progress since his successful replications of the CETI beads. (The people at CETI, unfortunately, have become mired in other problems and concerns, and they have not been able to replicate their own work.) On Saturday, May 1, at the Conference on New Energy, Miley hosted a workshop about this research. I was not able to attend the Conference, and I was forced to miss the lectures by Miley and his colleagues at the APS because I had to attend the anti-cold fusion session, which took place at the same time, ironically. However, Miley and I discussed this work at length and I saw the poster sessions. I will hear an audio recording of the workshop later, but if any of readers of this forum attended, I would like to hear your impression. We will have a great deal more to say about this in an upcoming issue of the magazine. For now, here is part of an interesting exchange of messages between Miley and a DoE employee who attended the workshop, courtesy of Miley. - Jed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Subject: Re: Workshop on low energy nuclear reactions Dear David - thanks for the thoughtful note about the workshop presentation. I will put together some of my papers and mail them to you. Also, in response to your questions/comments, I have made some inserts below: Regards, George ============================ At 08:55 AM 5/4/99 -0400, David.Hamilton ee.doe.gov wrote: > > >Dr. Miley, > >I want to personally thank you for your important work on "Low level Nuclear >reactions" and your presentation at the "Future Energy Conference" in >Washington, DC. I would like to get copies of your documents for the DOE library >and our materials research folks as I feel this is important in the study of >material physics and materials compatibility. ====================== I agree - even if a power cell doesn't develop, we have covered some new grounds in materials and in analysis techniques (e.g. combined SIMS and NAA). ======================= > >I have reviewed your paper in the "Breakthrough Propulsion Physics" workshop >proceedings and I am intrigued by the 50 to 1 energy gain, even though it >appears difficult to reproduce. The workshop in Washington gave me a very good >understanding of the materials difficulties and complex reactions involved. >The mix of endothermic and exothermic processes certainly explains this >difficulty. ========================= I didn't get my message across fully. Thus far our experience with sputtered thin films is that if they stay bonded, the results are quite reproducible!!! We have done about 20 experiments, and while they often had different combinations of materials, the trends found were reasonably consistent. This is in sharp contrast to other work describe by Storms et al with solid electrodes where cracking, etc results in deloading and the famous non-reproducibility problem of cold fusion. Further, while as you say, the reaction product mix is complex, this is a blessing in disguise!! This provides an exceedingly important diagnostic for learning what is going on and how to optimize operation of the cell. Such a diagnostic has been missing in prior Pons-Fleishmann type cold-fusion experiments to date since measuring excess heat alone gives little insight into the process. Others have been focusing on He-4 measurements, and that is also a diagnostic like the reaction products I cite, but not as "rich" in information. (I define LENR cells as involving proton-metal reactions vs. D-D reactions in "conventional" cold-fusion. thus the reaction products are different, He-4 being the D-D product from cold fusion and the array of light-heavy mass products I show being the reaction products, or "ash" from LENR.) ============================ None the less, to an objective observer this presses the question >"Why hasn't this gained more attention?" ================================ I can't explain that - first, many people seem to say this is impossible, so they don't believe it and worse, they won't keep an open mind. This view is enforced by the self-appointed critiques of Pons-Fleishman cold fusion such as R. Blue -- he keeps posting notes saying "they are all impurities' without ever confronting the many points I present against this obvious issue. I initially answered these, but them gave up as he just keeps repeating the postings. My work extends over a 2-1/2 yr. period, and was too serious to be dismissed without examination in detail. Indeed, key scientists in the area like Drs. John Bockris and Dr. T. Mizuno who have looked at it closely, have contiunally acknowledeged the importance of the results. And, at the same time, a number of related, supporting type LENR experiments are being reported frequently now from labs in Japan, Italy, France and China - eg see the proceedings from ICCF-7. Then there is the problem that cold fusion has such a bad name in DOE and other government agencies that I can't (nor can others) get funding to do anything but low-key internally funded research. The typical manager at DOE discourages submission of anything even vaguely related to cold fusion, saying, "it has been proven wrong". If you know of someone there who would entertain a serious proposal, please let me know!! I am struggling -- e.g. I currently have several students I need to support in the area to keep the research going at all. I have a track record of very succesfully completing a variety of DOE research projects over the years, so I would have thought I could get more attention when I propose something really important like this. Put another way, when such radically new technologies come along, there is always a gestation period. I just hope I can stick with it long enough to see the turn around, which will be fast, once it starts. People like to jump on the bandwagon, but it is hard to get them to push it when starting the wagon. ============================================================ > >My focus is on long term power and propulsion for transportation applications >And though many questions remain, the very low level of activated products >Indicates a very safe power source might be possible. Research should be >performed to optimize the materials and reactions for practical power generation >at any power level. Lastly, and of particular appeal would be research on >direct conversion to electricity. These processes may permit a more compact and >reliable direct conversion device. All these questions may seem premature, but >there is no doubt that the materials science has great value. ================ Again, I agree. In fact I have been considering (on paper) some energy conversion methods such as advanced thermoelectric, e.g. quantum well type devices. It appears that an integral cell/converter may be possible to give a compact system with reasonable efficiency at a modest operating temperature. The present goal is a 300C temperature for this unit; but, as you note, there are a host of materials problems to be faced in order to get there. Even if one doesn't ever get there, the contributions to materials/nuclear/chemical science would easily justify the effort and money spent. If succesful, such a cell would be an ideal replacement for the radioisotope power sources currently used for space applications. Since the radiation level for the LENR cell is so low that we have difficulty measuring it, this cell would, among other things, overcome the present concerns about radioactive sources like Pu in space. ================== > >Thank you, ======== Thanks for your interest. George ============== > > >David B. Hamilton, EE-32 >US Department of Energy >1000 Independence Ave. SW >Washington, DC 20585 >Tel: 202-586-2314 > > > > George H. Miley University of Illinois Fusion Studies Lab, 100 NEL 103 S. Goodwin Ave, Urbana, Il 61801 USA 217-3333772; 217-3332906(fax) g-miley uiuc.edu From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 4 13:21:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30382; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:19:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 13:19:08 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Message-ID: <8828b2f8.2460ae71 aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 16:11:29 EDT Subject: ARDA v2.0 Mk1 - Ready to fly... To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 144 Resent-Message-ID: <"Y2GC-2.0.YQ7.yOrBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27174 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, The ARDA v2.0 Mk1 is the 1/4 scale of the ARDA v2.0 (the real EHD flying version). This model has been built to test the aerodynamical model of the wing in free flight. This scaled model of the ARDA v2.0 will allow me to conduct some tests : - Validation of the aerodynamical model in free flight, - Adjustements of the center of gravity, - Wing loading tests, - EHD setup and installation. ARDA v2.0 Mk1 specifications (1/4 scale of the v2.0) : Wing span : 360mm Lenght : 315mm Aifoil profile : Eppler 338 Wing load: 8.75 g/dm2 Weight: 38g You will find all pictures of this model at : http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/ardav21.htm Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509 aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 4 15:27:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA32705; Tue, 4 May 1999 15:26:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:26:20 -0700 Message-ID: <372F73DF.614A88B ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 16:25:42 -0600 From: storms2 Organization: Energy K System X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wired report about CNE References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Pjsgw3.0.w-7.BGtBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27175 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Re: the helium claims of Wallman: Wallman uses light water which is not expected to produce He-4. However, He-3 is a possibility. Without a mass spect. examination, it is impossible to tell which isotope is present. In the absence of this information, speculations about the presence of helium are distracting from the more immediate importance of the work. Wallman is apparently making a chemical compound which is safer than H2 + CO and can be easily transported. In short, we are shown how to make a new fuel which is nonpolluting and can be obtained from organic waste. Let's jump on this idea without trying to fight the nuclear battle just yet - one battle at a time. Ed Storms From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 4 17:30:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA21872; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:28:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 17:28:40 -0700 Message-ID: <372F901D.CB1362CC earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 18:26:06 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wired report about CNE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7qNsQ1.0.gL5.u2vBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27176 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ed Storms wrote: > > Lets concentrate on Wallman's new and safely transportable H2CO fuel. > H2CO or HCHO better known as FORMALDEHYDE formed in Wallman's Electric Arc in Sugar Water by breaking out the H-C-OH units is made at the rate of about a Billion Pounds/Year by partial oxidation of Methanol. This is a highly toxic and irritating compound that melts at -91 C and boils at -21 C. It is water soluble and when in a 37% solution makes FORMALIN a Great EMBALMING FLUID. :-) During the energy hysteria, people were insulating their homes with Formaldehyde-type foams and getting sick and dying from this compound. I guess if you get killed in an auto fueled with this compound you can be embalmed right on the spot. :-( Nice try Ed! Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 4 19:25:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA32035; Tue, 4 May 1999 19:23:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 19:23:53 -0700 Message-ID: <003401be969e$32c19860$1a5accd1 default> From: "Mike Carrell" To: Subject: Wallman Fuel Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 22:22:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"TNbWM2.0.Rq7.ukwBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27177 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ed, check me on this. Frederick Sparber points out that the H2CO gas produced by the biomass underwater arc reactor can be interpreted as formaldehyde, which is an irritant and toxic. Yet in the presentation at the CoFE It was said that the energy content was apparently far greater than indicated by conventional predictions. Ordinarily a candidate gas is analyzed for conventional gases whose energy content is estimated from standard tables. Calorimetry by actually burning the gas is not done. Wallman is searching for a valid method of calorimetry of the gas. The actual molecular configuration may be no better described by H2CO than H2O describes the actual configuration of molecules in water. Thus Frederick's analysis may be premature. Similar findings about the complexity of the gas from underwater arcs have come from the Aqua-Fuel work, which has many features in common with Wallman's work. Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 4 20:35:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA25727; Tue, 4 May 1999 20:33:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:33:09 -0700 Message-ID: <19990505033308.24495.rocketmail web109.yahoomail.com> Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:33:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: H2K: H2 Calibration To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"fhp-L2.0.rH6.rlxBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27178 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: VCockeram aol.com wrote: > One other problem to solve regarding the temperature sensor which > is a K-Type bead thermocouple. At higher power inputs to the > reactor tube the high voltage interferes with the thermocouple > reading. Two possibilities here, one, a grounded shield for the > thermocouple or, two, isolate the thermocouple from the tube with > a nonconductive ceramic shoe that would fit the tube tightly. I'll > try both as I want accurate, steady and repeatable temperature > measurements. You definitely should use a grounded shield tube. The ceramic isolation will not stop capacitive pickup of noise from the discharge. Also, make sure that your thermocouple wires also run inside the same shield tube or braid all the way back to the thermocouple amplifier, and connect the shield to a ground at the amplifier input. Remember, thermocouple signals are microvolts. You have to work hard to keep noise out of the amplifier, no matter how good the noise rejection specs look. Trust me. I've learned the hard way. === Michael J. Schaffer _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 4 21:13:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA05934; Tue, 4 May 1999 21:10:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 21:10:12 -0700 Message-ID: <372FC3C0.88EC260D earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 22:06:26 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wallman Fuel References: <003401be969e$32c19860$1a5accd1 default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MaNLl.0.eS1.aIyBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27179 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I agree Mike, just because it's mass is 30 does not mean that it is formaldehyde, or that H2CO is it's proper formula, ie., atomic makeup. Ethane, C2H6 mass 30 also, is a definite possibility. But, I pay about $.40/lb for sugar and $.16/lb for gasoline. :-) Regards, Frederick Mike Carrell wrote: > Ed, check me on this. Frederick Sparber points out that the H2CO gas > produced by the biomass underwater arc reactor can be interpreted as > formaldehyde, which is an irritant and toxic. Yet in the presentation at the > CoFE It was said that the energy content was apparently far greater than > indicated by conventional predictions. Ordinarily a candidate gas is > analyzed for conventional gases whose energy content is estimated from > standard tables. Calorimetry by actually burning the gas is not done. > Wallman is searching for a valid method of calorimetry of the gas. > > The actual molecular configuration may be no better described by H2CO than > H2O describes the actual configuration of molecules in water. Thus > Frederick's analysis may be premature. > > Similar findings about the complexity of the gas from underwater arcs have > come from the Aqua-Fuel work, which has many features in common with > Wallman's work. > > Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 4 21:38:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA12402; Tue, 4 May 1999 21:35:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 21:35:50 -0700 Message-ID: <372FCA90.D4FD41F4 ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 22:35:32 -0600 From: storms2 Organization: Energy K System X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wired report about CNE References: <372F901D.CB1362CC earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9oiOv2.0.i13.bgyBt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27180 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick Sparber wrote: > Ed Storms wrote: > > > > Lets concentrate on Wallman's new and safely transportable H2CO fuel. > > > H2CO or HCHO better known as FORMALDEHYDE formed in Wallman's Electric > Arc in Sugar Water by breaking out the H-C-OH units is made at the rate > of about a Billion Pounds/Year by partial oxidation of Methanol. > > This is a highly toxic and irritating compound that melts at -91 C and > boils at -21 C. It is water soluble and when in a 37% solution makes > FORMALIN a Great EMBALMING FLUID. :-) > > During the energy hysteria, people were insulating their homes with > Formaldehyde-type foams and getting sick and dying from this compound. I > guess if you get killed in an auto fueled with this compound you can be > embalmed right on the spot. :-( > > Nice try Ed! > > Regards, Frederick Why do you assume the product is formaldehyde? The compound has not been determined, only that is has more energy than a mixture of CO and H2 and that it burns cleanly. Don't you think any one with a nose would be able to tell if the product were formaldehyde? It's better at this point to ask questions rather than making assumptions. Regards, Ed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 04:25:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA28538; Wed, 5 May 1999 04:25:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 04:25:12 -0700 Message-ID: <373029C8.CE1DDC77 earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 05:21:45 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wired report about CNE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ppn-m1.0.qz6.Og2Ct" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27181 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ed Storms wrote: > >Why do you assume the product is formaldehyde? > If the formula is H2CO, as you stated, that is what it has to be. If you meant a mixture of H2 and CO that is a different story. :-) > >The compound has not been determined, only that it has more energy than a mixture of CO and > H2 and it burns cleanly. > Electric Arc Pyrolysis/Hydrolysis of Sugar Water with bond breaking of Glucose or Fructose molecules C6H12O6, leaves choices of C1 and C2 carbon compounds (C3 molecules are highly unlikey) with combustion heats in Btu/Ft^3: Gas HHV LHV H2 320 270 CO 316 316 CH4 995 896 C2H6 1,743 1,595 C2H4 1,576 1,477 C2H2 1,451 1,402 It looks like someone needs to send out a gas sample for analysis. I sent my Biomass gasifier samples to a Chem Lab that does this for the Gas/Oil well drillers. They provide the evacuated sampling bottles. With an overall electrical generation/transmission efficiency of 20%, one might break even with Ethane. Or, with Biomass at $20.00/ton and a 100 TPD plant, you might compete with West Texas Crude when it hits $35.00/Barrel. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 05:10:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA02094; Wed, 5 May 1999 05:07:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 05:07:48 -0700 From: "Ed Wall" To: Subject: RE: Wallman Fuel Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 08:08:48 -0400 Message-ID: <000001be96f0$08203b00$dc4f7dc7 computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003401be969e$32c19860$1a5accd1 default> Resent-Message-ID: <"eabQo2.0.ZW.KI3Ct" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27182 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mike, The energy balance that Wallman had came from the kind of calorimetry involving the burning of the gas and capture of exhaust into a copper tube submerged in water. It is a crude method of calorimetry, but he did use a reference gas of 'known' BTU content. There are unknowns like the temperature of the gas when it came out of the heat exchanger, but it was a good first attempt. The o/u was 268% if memory serves. Dave Wallman and Wil Damman told me that Aquafuel has gotten some pretty huge (and I mean HUGE) contracts for building plants in, I think, the Dominican Republic. The patent dispute rages onward. Toupes could be another John Rockefeller (or, as known in the lore of the day, Wreck-a-fellow). Ed > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Carrell [mailto:mikec snip.net] > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 10:22 PM > To: vortex-l eskimo.com > Subject: Wallman Fuel > > > Ed, check me on this. Frederick Sparber points out that the H2CO gas > produced by the biomass underwater arc reactor can be interpreted as > formaldehyde, which is an irritant and toxic. Yet in the > presentation at the > CoFE It was said that the energy content was apparently far greater than > indicated by conventional predictions. Ordinarily a candidate gas is > analyzed for conventional gases whose energy content is estimated from > standard tables. Calorimetry by actually burning the gas is not done. > Wallman is searching for a valid method of calorimetry of the gas. > > The actual molecular configuration may be no better described by H2CO than > H2O describes the actual configuration of molecules in water. Thus > Frederick's analysis may be premature. > > Similar findings about the complexity of the gas from underwater arcs have > come from the Aqua-Fuel work, which has many features in common with > Wallman's work. > > Mike Carrell > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 05:31:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA05099; Wed, 5 May 1999 05:23:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 05:23:32 -0700 From: "Ed Wall" To: Subject: RE: Wallman Fuel Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 08:24:30 -0400 Message-ID: <000201be96f2$39c02ba0$dc4f7dc7 computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <372FC3C0.88EC260D earthlink.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"jrKkG.0.ZF1.4X3Ct" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27183 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, Sugar is just a feedstock used for the demo. Any kind of biomass waste will do fine. I understand there's a few small oceans of pig excrement that pose a real health problem in Arkansas due to the fact that Tyson has grown so big so fast. Personally, I'd like to see them named after our president. ; ) You're right, though. The real need is for reliable chemical analysis. Ed > -----Original Message----- > From: Frederick Sparber [mailto:fjsparber earthlink.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 12:06 AM > To: vortex-l eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Wallman Fuel > > > I agree Mike, just because it's mass is 30 does not mean that it is > formaldehyde, or that H2CO is it's proper formula, ie., atomic > makeup. Ethane, > C2H6 mass 30 also, is a definite possibility. But, I pay about > $.40/lb for > sugar and $.16/lb for gasoline. :-) > > Regards, Frederick > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 06:18:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA18765; Wed, 5 May 1999 06:12:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 06:12:18 -0700 Message-ID: <37304258.59161E63 earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 07:06:33 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wallman Fuel References: <000201be96f2$39c02ba0$dc4f7dc7 computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ptkp83.0.3b4.nE4Ct" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27184 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ed Wall wrote: > Fred, > > Sugar is just a feedstock used for the demo. Any kind of biomass waste will > do fine. I understand there's a few small oceans of pig excrement that pose > a real health problem in Arkansas due to the fact that Tyson has grown so > big so fast. Personally, I'd like to see them named after our president. > ; ) LOL! Actually Tyson is more of a Chicken- (word deleted) outfit that will go for any means of getting rid of the manures from the poultry houses that are all over Arkansas. They were looking at Joe Hamrick's 5 Megawatt externally fired gas turbine (Allison 501 K or the Turbines off the C-130 aircraft) power plants that was DoE funded (mid 80's) for running on sawdust, bagasse, and feedlot manures, there are some ash fusion-slagging problems if the turbine blades get above 1700 F. These plants were on line for years using sawdust north of Nashville. Regards, Frederick > > > You're right, though. The real need is for reliable chemical analysis. > > Ed > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Frederick Sparber [mailto:fjsparber earthlink.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 12:06 AM > > To: vortex-l eskimo.com > > Subject: Re: Wallman Fuel > > > > > > I agree Mike, just because it's mass is 30 does not mean that it is > > formaldehyde, or that H2CO is it's proper formula, ie., atomic > > makeup. Ethane, > > C2H6 mass 30 also, is a definite possibility. But, I pay about > > $.40/lb for > > sugar and $.16/lb for gasoline. :-) > > > > Regards, Frederick > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 06:18:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA20526; Wed, 5 May 1999 06:18:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 06:18:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990505091809.0079a2b0 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 09:18:09 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: Wallman Fuel In-Reply-To: <000201be96f2$39c02ba0$dc4f7dc7 computer> References: <372FC3C0.88EC260D earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"15Id92.0.e05.FK4Ct" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27185 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:24 5/5/99 -0400, you wrote: >I understand there's a few small oceans of pig excrement that pose >a real health problem in Arkansas due to the fact that Tyson has grown so >big so fast. It can't be Tyson's fault. They deal in poultry, not pigs. See www.tyson.com. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 06:44:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA28869; Wed, 5 May 1999 06:43:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 06:43:40 -0700 Message-ID: <37304A6F.F297EF07 earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 07:41:04 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wallman Fuel References: <372FC3C0.88EC260D earthlink.net> <3.0.6.32.19990505091809.0079a2b0@pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BvLyE.0._27.Bi4Ct" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27186 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't know about that, Jed, they have a Really Big Tortilla Factory in North Carolina. :-) Regards, Frederick Jed Rothwell wrote: > At 08:24 5/5/99 -0400, you wrote: > > >I understand there's a few small oceans of pig excrement that pose > >a real health problem in Arkansas due to the fact that Tyson has grown so > >big so fast. > > It can't be Tyson's fault. They deal in poultry, not pigs. See www.tyson.com. > > - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 07:39:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA25686; Wed, 5 May 1999 07:34:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 07:34:32 -0700 From: "Ed Wall" To: "Vortex" Subject: Toups Aquafuel filing for Dominican Republic Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:35:30 -0400 Message-ID: <000401be9704$86bdc680$dc4f7dc7 computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"aOr8n1.0.GH6.tR5Ct" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27187 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1056748/0001056748-98-000030.txt From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 08:26:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA13010; Wed, 5 May 1999 08:17:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 08:17:11 -0700 Message-ID: <37305FF0.1D618AA0 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 18:12:48 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex , freenrg , Torsion List Subject: The Correlation Between Gravitation and Electromagnetism, Inertia and Unification (physics/9905003) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ki8pK3.0.2B3.r36Ct" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27188 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/9905003 Hi, This is second paper of Fran De Aquino which appeared on LANL archive the first one was The Gravitational Spacecraft (http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/9904018) that I announced earlier. Apologize for cross list posting. hamdi ucar Physics, abstract physics/9905003 From: "Maranhao State University" Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 22:43:03 GMT (220kb,H) The Correlation Between Gravitation and Electromagnetism, Inertia and Unification Author: Fran De Aquino (Maranhao State University, Brazil) Comments: 9 pages, E-mail : deaquino elo.com.br Subj-class: General Physics We show that gravitational mass and inertial mass are correlated by an adimentional factor, which in specific electromagnetic conditions, can be reduced, nullified, negated, and increased. Some theoretical consequences of the mentioned correlation are: the generalization of Newton=92s second law for the motion (New law for Inertia); the deduction of the differential equation for entropy (second law of Thermodynamics); unification of gravitational and electromagnetic interactions . Paper: Source (220kb), HTML From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 10:50:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA06498; Wed, 5 May 1999 10:46:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:46:21 -0700 Message-ID: <3730834B.FA9EE23C earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 11:43:40 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wallman Fuel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jVkLB3.0.Sb1.iF8Ct" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27189 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex Check out Battelle's Fluid bed Gasifier U.S. 4,828,581 May 9, 1989; Feldmann & Paisley Battelle Development Corp. www.patents.ibm.com 500-4000 lb Biomass /ft^2-hr turned into a 450 Btu/ft^3 fuel gas Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 12:11:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA00195; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:09:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 12:09:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3730969F.F5AB5D1D earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 13:06:07 -0600 From: "Richard T. Murray" Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Page's very sane assessment of CF References: <000201be8754$33a66ca0$7d13fea9 dec> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kE1-O.0.y2.GT9Ct" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27190 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 5, 1999 Hello Bill Page, I entirely agree with your very sane assessment of CF research. Regards, Rich Murray Bill Page wrote: on April 15, 1999 to Vortex-L eskimo.com > > Normally the best way to treat the recent dialog between > Scott Little, Jed Rothwell, Gene Mallove, Michel Swartz would > be to just ignore it. > > I have attended several of the cold fusion meetings, met all > of the above people at one time or another and have read > nearly all of the available literature. I have even done some CF > experiments myself (unpublished). And I feel compelled to say > that I disagree completely with the recent comments of Jed, > Gene and Mich. I think their reactions and over statements > in response to Scott's reasonable and scientifically based > skepticism can only be explained by just how badly they are > 'backed into the wall' concerning their opinions about cold > fusion. > > Of course Jed, Gene and Mich will deny that they are in this > position, but I want to say it anyway because it may not be > obvious to them what their comments look like to someone > who does not often post to the list but who has been reading it > and other sources of CF information for the last 10 years. > > There is no evidence whatever of any malicious intent on the > part of Scott Little or Earthtech. Scott's expressed interpretation > of the available data seems entirely reasonable to me. In fact, > it seems like the only defensible position at this time. I can only > applaud the fact that he continues to advertise his willingness to > test claims of excess heat and maintains his doubt about the > possible outcome. Unlike in business and in religion, expression > of doubt is a normal and natural part of the scientific method. > > My point in making this posting to the list is simply that I would > very much like Scott and Earthtech to continue this quest. I would > also like the CF advocates like Jed, Gene and Mich to back-off > and to stop this sort of "in-fighting". It looks bad, it's unscientific > and it is certainly unproductive. There is no valid reason anyone, > including Les Case, Russ George nor anyone else, should be > discouraged from working with Scott Little or anyone else who > has demonstrated such openness and willingness to test their > claims. > > Cheers, > Bill Page. "Bill Page" From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 12:22:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA03970; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:22:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 12:22:00 -0700 Message-ID: <37309B29.B185F58E bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 15:25:29 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wallman Fuel References: <372FC3C0.88EC260D earthlink.net> <3.0.6.32.19990505091809.0079a2b0@pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ztS692.0.wz.Of9Ct" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27191 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You didn't read far enough, Jed: http://www.tyson.com/corporate/Processes/SwineProc.asp Swine Process Tyson Foods is one of the nation's largest suppliers of live swine. That's right, we're pork, too! Regardless, chicken poop has a higher ammonia and energy content anyway. And they gotta know livestock since they helped our first "lady" make a, er, killing in livestock commodities. Terry Jed Rothwell wrote: > > At 08:24 5/5/99 -0400, you wrote: > > >I understand there's a few small oceans of pig excrement that pose > >a real health problem in Arkansas due to the fact that Tyson has grown so > >big so fast. > > It can't be Tyson's fault. They deal in poultry, not pigs. See www.tyson.com. > > - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 13:31:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31453; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:29:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 13:29:59 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990505162704.00c92050 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 16:27:04 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Page's very sane assessment of CF In-Reply-To: <3730969F.F5AB5D1D earthlink.net> References: <000201be8754$33a66ca0$7d13fea9 dec> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"CowgF2.0.Gh7.7fACt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27192 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:06 PM 5/5/99 -0600, Richard T. Murray wrote: >May 5, 1999 Hello Bill Page, I entirely agree with your very sane >assessment of CF research. Regards, Rich Murray > >Bill Page wrote: on April 15, 1999 to Vortex-L eskimo.com >> >> Normally the best way to treat the recent dialog between > (zip) >> Cheers, >> Bill Page. "Bill Page" It is not an assessment of CF research, and it was inaccurate in other ways. It also remains quite unfortunate that Richard Murray, who could do better, again posts old material while at the same time failing to post corrections made to that old material. Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 15:13:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA15315; Wed, 5 May 1999 15:10:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:10:08 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Wallman Fuel Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 18:13:46 -0400 Message-ID: <19990505221346781.AAA130 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"cmP0s3.0.Dl3._6CCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27193 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tyson also bought the largest Alaskan salmon operation about 7 years ago. Fishing vessels, processing ships, tenders, the works. Laid off quite a few of the engineers because they felt that maintenance and upkeep of the vessels could be better performed by creative accounting. North and South Carolina have some pretty good stories to tell about the dammed up lakes of pig excrement. Some of the dams broke and flooded small towns. Per pound, pigs eat and poop about 10 times the amount that humans do, although there are some people I know that seriously try and compete 8^) Knuke >You didn't read far enough, Jed: > >http://www.tyson.com/corporate/Processes/SwineProc.asp > > Swine Process > > Tyson Foods is one of the nation's largest suppliers of > live swine. That's right, we're pork, too! > >Regardless, chicken poop has a higher ammonia and energy content >anyway. > >And they gotta know livestock since they helped our first "lady" >make a, er, killing in livestock commodities. > >Terry > >Jed Rothwell wrote: >> >> At 08:24 5/5/99 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >I understand there's a few small oceans of pig excrement that pose >> >a real health problem in Arkansas due to the fact that Tyson has grown so >> >big so fast. >> >> It can't be Tyson's fault. They deal in poultry, not pigs. See www.tyson.com. >> >> - Jed > > Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 15:30:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA23554; Wed, 5 May 1999 15:29:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:29:43 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 13:42:48 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Wallman Fuel Resent-Message-ID: <"d1UtV2.0.ul5.NPCCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27194 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chicken guano has been used as an ingredient in animal feed. Maybe it has a higher value converted to $1/lb to $10/lb meat than the equivalent of $.40/lb sugar or $.16/lb gasoline. I don't know what the cost is of the equivalent animal feed replaced. Perhaps what is really needed for maximal "energy" efficiency is to close the loop by figuring out how to feed chickens on pig droppings. Modern farming practices are creating unfathomed pathways for pathogens and opportunities for mutation. Maybe pigs actually WILL fly before a CF water heater is sold a Sears. 8^) Regards, Horace Heffner At 3:25 PM 5/5/99, Terry Blanton wrote: >You didn't read far enough, Jed: > >http://www.tyson.com/corporate/Processes/SwineProc.asp > > Swine Process > > Tyson Foods is one of the nation's largest suppliers of > live swine. That's right, we're pork, too! [snip] >Jed Rothwell wrote: >> >> At 08:24 5/5/99 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >I understand there's a few small oceans of pig excrement that pose >> >a real health problem in Arkansas due to the fact that Tyson has grown so >> >big so fast. >> >> It can't be Tyson's fault. They deal in poultry, not pigs. See www.tyson.com. >> >> - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 15:39:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA26168; Wed, 5 May 1999 15:35:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:35:05 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 13:48:17 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Page's very sane assessment of CF Resent-Message-ID: <"OLLwp1.0.oO6.PUCCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27195 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 4:27 PM 5/5/99, Mitchell Swartz wrote: >At 01:06 PM 5/5/99 -0600, Richard T. Murray wrote: >>May 5, 1999 Hello Bill Page, I entirely agree with your very sane >>assessment of CF research. Regards, Rich Murray >> >>Bill Page wrote: on April 15, 1999 to Vortex-L eskimo.com >>> >>> Normally the best way to treat the recent dialog between >> (zip) >>> Cheers, >>> Bill Page. "Bill Page" > > > It is not an assessment of CF research, and it was >inaccurate in other ways. > > It also remains quite unfortunate that Richard Murray, >who could do better, again posts old material while at the >same time failing to post corrections made to that old material. > > Mitchell Swartz I don't recall Bill Page correcting anything. I recall disagreements about what he said, but those are matters of opinion. That's my opinion. 8^) Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 16:09:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA01280; Wed, 5 May 1999 15:57:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:57:06 -0700 Message-ID: <3730CBE0.BDA0E641 earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 16:53:21 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Aqua-Fuel WoW! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ImVbi.0.wJ.1pCCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27196 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex I perused the Aqua Fuel patents and contract. At a heat rate of 12,000 Btu/kw-hr they will need about 1.0 lbs of "Carbon Welding Rods"/kw-hr. Biomass on a dry weight basis runs about 40% Carbon so they will need 2.5 tons of dried biomass/megawatt-hour. With a 10 Megwatt genset that's 250 TPD being charred and turned into "Carbon Rods". :-) I'm looking forward to a trip to Florida to see a 100 kw demo. Do they have a shortage of squirrels down there? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 16:22:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08215; Wed, 5 May 1999 16:18:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 16:18:48 -0700 Message-ID: <3730D0F0.C62C20ED earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 17:14:57 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wallman Fuel References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qnyYm.0.H02.N7DCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27197 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You're on the right track, Horace. "Value Added" products from biomass are the big DoE push these days since it can't get through the politics of Electrical Power or Biomass Methane "Wheeling" over the power grid or the pipeline network. The Murchison brothers (former owners of the Dallas Cowboys) financed a biogas (methane) plant in the late 1970s at a huge feedlot in Guymon Oklahoma, they were producing enough "natural gas" to fuel Oklahoma City, but they couldn't get the use of the pipelines. The project was shut down at a loss. There are several viable biomass gasifiers/power generators ready to do Tysons manures in Arkansas, but there is a Huge Nuclear Power plant near Russellville, that has a debt to retire. :-) Regards, Frederick Horace Heffner wrote: > Chicken guano has been used as an ingredient in animal feed. Maybe it has > a higher value converted to $1/lb to $10/lb meat than the equivalent of > $.40/lb sugar or $.16/lb gasoline. I don't know what the cost is of the > equivalent animal feed replaced. > > Perhaps what is really needed for maximal "energy" efficiency is to close > the loop by figuring out how to feed chickens on pig droppings. > > Modern farming practices are creating unfathomed pathways for pathogens and > opportunities for mutation. Maybe pigs actually WILL fly before a CF water > heater is sold a Sears. 8^) > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner > > At 3:25 PM 5/5/99, Terry Blanton wrote: > >You didn't read far enough, Jed: > > > >http://www.tyson.com/corporate/Processes/SwineProc.asp > > > > Swine Process > > > > Tyson Foods is one of the nation's largest suppliers of > > live swine. That's right, we're pork, too! > [snip] > >Jed Rothwell wrote: > >> > >> At 08:24 5/5/99 -0400, you wrote: > >> > >> >I understand there's a few small oceans of pig excrement that pose > >> >a real health problem in Arkansas due to the fact that Tyson has grown so > >> >big so fast. > >> > >> It can't be Tyson's fault. They deal in poultry, not pigs. See www.tyson.com. > >> > >> - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 16:34:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA14391; Wed, 5 May 1999 16:30:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 16:30:11 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:28:15 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: H2 Calibration To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"BCsio3.0.hW3.1IDCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27198 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 05/04/1999 20:33:50 Pacific Daylight Time, schaffermj yahoo.com writes: ..... ..... > Also, make sure that your thermocouple wires also run inside the same > shield tube or braid all the way back to the thermocouple amplifier, > and connect the shield to a ground at the amplifier input. > Remember, thermocouple signals are microvolts. You have to work > hard to keep noise out of the amplifier, no matter how good the noise > rejection specs look. > Trust me. I've learned the hard way. > === > Michael J. Schaffer Points well taken Michael. I am in process of enclosing the reactor tube (the active region) in a two inch length of 1/2 inch od copper pipe with each end necked down to a snug fit around the quartz tube. This enclosure has a 1/4 inch glass view port for viewing the discharge. The thermocouple will be strapped to the copper pipe which is coated with black high temperature stove paint on the inside. The copper pipe will be bonded to ground (earth). The copper pipe will be covered with a tightly wound coil of 1/8 inch od copper tubing heavily silver soldered to the 1/2 inch copper tube. (This with the possibility in the future of water flow calorimetry.) Finally the tube shield / copper tubing will be enclosed in two inch diameter can and fiberglass insulation packed in around the central copper pipe and a top will be soldered on the assembly. A 1.5 inch length of 5/16 od quartz tubing will allow viewing the port cut in the central copper pipe tube shield through the insulation. Both ends of this viewing tube will be sealed with a flat piece of a microscope slide to minimize convection losses through the view port. This way I will have an insulated assembly with an internal grounded thermocouple that can easly be slipped over a reactor tube for heat output tests. Recall that I was physically attaching the thermocouple to the tube for each run. This is prone to errors: (1) Position of thermocouple on the reactor tube, and (2) How tight the wire was twisted to secure the thermocouple and so on) With this insulated shield / can assembly the thermocouple can be positioned exactly in the same position each time I make a run and, a big plus, I will be able to capture all the radiation that escaped with running the tube in the open. In operation at a fill pressure of ~10 torr this thing must be putting out some fierce UV as I noticed the walls of the quartz tube were fluorescing a bright violet while there was no visible arc / glow in the tube. (Yes I DID have my UV blocker safety glasses on!) This is radition that was lost but with the new setup, captured nicely by the blackened insulated copper shield. So, to all who have made suggestions and comments, thank you. I read and take all very seriously and do what I can to impliment them all in the hope of making this a better experiment. In a way all of us are running this experiment. Thats what I wanted to do from the start. Quite frankly, I would be lost without the very valuble input from this group. Back to the bench now. Best Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas Nevada 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 18:13:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA11754; Wed, 5 May 1999 18:12:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 18:12:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3730ECD9.3849 interlaced.net> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 21:14:01 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: H2K: H2 Calibration References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bouel3.0.at2.snECt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27199 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: VCockeram aol.com wrote: > The copper pipe > will be covered with a tightly wound coil of 1/8 inch od copper tubing > heavily silver soldered to the 1/2 inch copper tube. (This with the > possibility in the future of water flow calorimetry.) > Finally the tube shield / copper tubing will be enclosed in two inch > diameter can and fiberglass insulation packed in around the central > copper pipe and a top will be soldered on the assembly. Gee, this sounds great, Vince - but you will, even initially, keep the 1/2 inch tube from overheating - right? Remember how fast a copper-tip on a soldering iron can oxidize at only 400 deg F or so. Will you limit the tube temp by limiting time - or will you use some coolant flow - which, I guess, means to crank up the flow calorimetry function right away?? It might be nice to hold the 1/2 inch tube to a max of 100 - 150 deg. C, you think? Anyone with good experience on just what the max temp to run the copper at?? Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 20:40:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA25514; Wed, 5 May 1999 20:39:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:39:19 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 18:52:34 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Wallman Fuel Resent-Message-ID: <"mt7lP1.0.ZE6.dxGCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27200 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 5:14 PM 5/5/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] The >Murchison brothers (former owners of the Dallas Cowboys) financed a biogas >(methane) >plant in the late 1970s at a huge feedlot in Guymon Oklahoma, they were >producing >enough "natural gas" to fuel Oklahoma City, but they couldn't get the use >of the >pipelines. The project was shut down at a loss. Don't you just hate to see entrepreneurs bite the dust like that on a good conserving project. Maybe the key to success is coming up with a way to market direct to the consumer. Some possibilities might have included opening an energy intensive industry like a glass or steel works, brick factory, greenhouses, or a generating plant. Meat packing might have worked, but you would have to freeze a lot of meat to use that much gas. Could fuel both the plant and the trucks, maybe with modification to the trailers for fuel storage, but limited range would require satellite warehousing. Maybe they just needed the right energy consuming partners and some creative thinking, IMHO. Of course, it is difficult to tell what might really work without developing a good solid realistic business plan. Any idea what happened to the plant? Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 20:51:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA29409; Wed, 5 May 1999 20:50:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:50:22 -0700 Message-ID: <19990506035122.21734.rocketmail web120.yahoomail.com> Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:51:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: Toups Aquafuel filing for Dominican Republic To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"zet9E2.0.RB7.z5HCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27201 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1056748/0001056748-98-000030.txt the copy of the Contract between Toups Technology Licensing, Inc. and Compania De Luz Y Fuerza De Las Terrenas contains the following definition: "Giga watt One Million Mega Watts" Someone is going to have a 1000-fold surprise on this deal! === Michael J. Schaffer _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 21:02:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA00509; Wed, 5 May 1999 21:01:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 21:01:43 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: <94fe8180.24626d0d aol.com> Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 23:57:01 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: H2 Calibration To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"SMvFS2.0.m7.cGHCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27202 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 05/05/1999 18:13:21 Pacific Daylight Time, fstenger interlaced.net writes: > > Finally the tube shield / copper tubing will be enclosed in two inch > > diameter can and fiberglass insulation packed in around the central > > copper pipe and a top will be soldered on the assembly. > > Gee, this sounds great, Vince - but you will, even initially, keep the > 1/2 inch tube from overheating - right? I'm going to keep a close watch on the temperature Frank. The silver solder melts at what...? ...400~500 F ? Not much worried about as much as the solder but even if it melts it'll probably do a better flow job that I did with the torch.. :-) In constructing this shield I used a short length of copper pipe and a 1/2 to 3/8 reducer on each end. I did not silver-solder the ends on...I brazed (copper welded) them. Brazing copper is a bit like torch welding aluminum. You gotta heat the work until it's _almost_ molten. A little bit too much heat and it's gone. So no problem with the tube getting too hot...and if the solder melts some, still not a crisis, I wound the copper coil on a mandrel that was slightly undersize so the copper coil is really tight around the copper pipe shield. > Will you limit the tube temp by limiting time - or will you use some > coolant flow - which, I guess, means to crank up the flow calorimetry > function right away?? Not calorimetry yet, but yes, gravity coolant flow if it gets too hot. Small pump in a pan on the floor feeding a can w/valve hung from the ceiling. Won't get much flow though through the 1/8 _OD_ tubing. May have to run with a fluidic pressure intensifier (a pump :-) > It might be nice to hold the 1/2 inch tube to > a max of 100 - 150 deg. C, you think? I would think, with my experience in copper (actually, all sorts of) welding I would be comfortable at 300 C but I don't think it's gonna run that hot, but we'll see. No idea at this point. There is a 1/8 inch air space between the quartz tube ant the copper pipe shield. This volume of air is pretty much trapped by a seal between each end of the copper pipe and the quartz tube. I have had the reactor _tube_ up at around 800 C but with the new setup ( at the advice of Horace) am working at lower power inputs. Easier to control and less destructive of tube components. But the question begs; how much radiation was lost with the unenclosed setup? Again, no idea...But I have it trapped now. > Anyone with good experience on > just what the max temp to run the copper at?? > > Frank Stenger Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas Nevada 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 21:34:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA09940; Wed, 5 May 1999 21:31:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 21:31:42 -0700 Message-ID: <37311A8F.9C96A975 earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 22:29:04 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: EPI, "The Waste-To-Energy Company" Fluidized Bed Combustion, cogen, power, garbage, biomass, wood Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A47D49EF3F3C6DC1CD5F464D" Resent-Message-ID: <"-uf8y2.0.ER2.kiHCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27203 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A47D49EF3F3C6DC1CD5F464D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.energyproducts.com/ --------------A47D49EF3F3C6DC1CD5F464D Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Base: "http://www.energyproducts.com/" EPI, "The Waste-To-Energy Company" Fluidized Bed Combustion, cogen, power, garbage, biomass, wood

Grant Forest Products, Ontario, Canada 'Waste-To-Energy' plant.

With 76 fluidized bed energy systems providing over five million hours of operating experience, Energy Products of Idaho has quietly established itself as the leader in waste fuel fired fluidized bed combustion/boiler technology.

See us at the ASME conference in Savannah, GA and in Kalamazoo for the NCASI meeting this May. Paper Sludge Energy System completes tests successfully.


What can we burn?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Company
Headquarters
Energy Products of Idaho
4006 Industrial Avenue
Coeur d'Alene, Idaho 83814
Ph. 208/765-1611
Fax 208/765-0503

epi@energyproducts.com

EPI Asia
GPO Box 2108
24 Bovelles Street
Camp Hill, Brisbane,
Queensland, Australia 4001
Ph. 617-339-85809
Fax 617-384-36567
100356.1731@compuserve.com

--------------A47D49EF3F3C6DC1CD5F464D-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 21:52:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA15524; Wed, 5 May 1999 21:51:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 21:51:11 -0700 Message-ID: <0a8801be977c$a5e8f840$9c8380d8 btech> From: "Bill Wallace`" To: , Subject: Re: Toups Aquafuel filing for Dominican Republic Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 00:55:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"T2Z931.0.Qo3.--HCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27204 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Absolutely - I do not like companies that put stock information before everything else on thier web sites - usually what you are trying to promote should be your product or service - not the stock. Unless the stock is what you are really trying to push - what do you think? >At > >http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1056748/0001056748-98-000030.txt > >the copy of the Contract between Toups Technology Licensing, Inc. and >Compania De Luz Y Fuerza De Las Terrenas contains the following definition: > > > "Giga watt One Million Mega Watts" > >Someone is going to have a 1000-fold surprise on this deal! From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 5 22:11:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA21287; Wed, 5 May 1999 22:10:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 22:10:04 -0700 Message-ID: <37312356.2298D1FC earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 23:06:31 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wallman Fuel References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MbkFt2.0.XC5.iGICt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27205 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Good points Horace, it might work in 3rd world countries. All they needed was access to the Pipeline "grid", but the gas producers were not too anxious to share the grid with competition. :-) I worked with EPI on a feedlot manure burner power generation system in the early 80s, but there wasn't enough water allocation to support a profitable sized system, so I helped get DoE funding for firing Joe Hamrick's dry externally fired (sawdust) 5 Megawatt gas turbine system on feedlot manures. It worked like a champ, but we couldn't use the grid for "wheeling" either. Too many coal and nuclear power plants came on-line. Note that California had laws that required the utilities to purchase renewable energy at "avoided cost". That is why most of the wind and solar power is produced there. Even the DoE solar furnace near Barstow Ca. :-) Best, Frederick Horace Heffner wrote: > At 5:14 PM 5/5/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: > [snip] The > >Murchison brothers (former owners of the Dallas Cowboys) financed a biogas > >(methane) > >plant in the late 1970s at a huge feedlot in Guymon Oklahoma, they were > >producing > >enough "natural gas" to fuel Oklahoma City, but they couldn't get the use > >of the > >pipelines. The project was shut down at a loss. > > Don't you just hate to see entrepreneurs bite the dust like that on a good > conserving project. Maybe the key to success is coming up with a way to > market direct to the consumer. Some possibilities might have included > opening an energy intensive industry like a glass or steel works, brick > factory, greenhouses, or a generating plant. Meat packing might have > worked, but you would have to freeze a lot of meat to use that much gas. > Could fuel both the plant and the trucks, maybe with modification to the > trailers for fuel storage, but limited range would require satellite > warehousing. Maybe they just needed the right energy consuming partners > and some creative thinking, IMHO. Of course, it is difficult to tell what > might really work without developing a good solid realistic business plan. > > Any idea what happened to the plant? > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 6 04:54:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA30752; Thu, 6 May 1999 04:48:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 04:48:25 -0700 Message-ID: <373180E1.FB43130 earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 05:45:38 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Turbines offered by GLOBAL POWER RESOURCES Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------47F08CC14CDB9BDAD5C57D7E" Resent-Message-ID: <"U33b22.0.PW7.86OCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27206 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------47F08CC14CDB9BDAD5C57D7E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://members.atlantic.net/~sirco/turbines.htm In case you want to generate your own power to run your microwave oven. :-) --------------47F08CC14CDB9BDAD5C57D7E Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="turbines.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="turbines.htm" Content-Base: "http://members.atlantic.net/~sirco/tur bines.htm" Turbines offered by GLOBAL POWER RESOURCES
--------------------

GLOBAL POWER RESOURCES, Inc.
GLOBAL POWER RESOURCES, Inc.
P.O. Box 1065
Micanopy Florida 32667-1065
Phone: 352-466-0602 -- Fax: 352-466-0088
E-mail: sirco atlantic.net
http://www.atlantic.net/~sirco


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TURBINES Select:
Steam Turbine Generators
Combustion (Gas) Turbine Generators
Steam Turbines (w/o Generators)
Combustion Turbines (w/o Generators)

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Last updated 5 April 1999
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Steam Turbine Generators
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* 200 KW WORTHINGTON. 60 Hz. 175 psi 378 deg F. 120/208V. 4516/1200 rpm. (Ref# W98-STG-4)

* 500 KW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. Non-condensing. 295 psi 520 deg F. Single automatic controlled extraction. 2400 V. In storage. Offered "as is" or refurbished. (Ref# W98-STG-30)

* 1000 KW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. Non-condensing. 295 psi 520 deg F. Single automatic controlled extraction. 2400 V. In storage. Offered "as is" or refurbished. (Ref# W98-STG-29)

* 1500 KW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. Non-condensing. 295 psi 520 deg F. Double automatic controlled extraction. 2400 V. In storage. Offered "as is" or refurbished. (Ref# W98-STG-28)

* 1500 KW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. Non-condensing. 400 psi 600 deg F. Very low hours. No asbestos. In storage; available for immediate shipment. (Ref# W98-STG-27)

* 2000 KW WESTINGHOUSE. 60 Hz. Non-condensing. 600 psi 700 deg F. 65 psi back pressure. New in 1954. Shut down in 1990. Generator rewound 3 years before shut-down. (Ref # W98-STG-38)

* 2000 KW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. Condensing. 400 psi 600 deg F. Very low hours. No asbestos. In storage; available for immediate shipment. (Ref# W98-STG-26)

* 2000 KW WESTINGHOUSE. 60 Hz. 600 psi 700 deg F. 2400/4160V. 3600 rpm. Non-condensing. (Ref# W98-STG-10)

* 3500 kW GENERAL ELECTRIC Form W (4 available). 60 Hz. Steam inlet 585 psig 700 deg F; exhaust 70/100 psi. 3600 rpm. With generator, exciter, oil coolers, gland educator pumps w/ motors. Priced to sell. (Ref# W97-STG-6)

New Listing 4000 KW ELLIOTT. 60 Hz. Non-condensing. 250 psi 507 deg F. 4160 V. Refurbished with warranty. (Ref# W99-STG-1)

* 4000 kW GENERAL ELECTRIC Form T (2 available). 60 Hz. Steam inlet 585 psig 700 deg F; exhaust 200 psig. 3600 rpm. Lots of spare parts. Priced to sell. (Ref# W97-STG-7)

* 4000 kW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. Steam inlet 600 psig; exhaust 3" ABS. Priced to sell. (Ref# W97-STG-8)

* 4500 kW PETER BROTHERHOOD. 60 Hz. 150 psi 570 deg F. 13.8 kV. (Ref# W98-STG-12)

* 5000 KW PARSON (2 available). 60 Hz. 410 psi 650 deg F. 6.9 kV. (Ref# W98-STG-22)

* 6000 kW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. 2400/4160 V. 3600 rpm. Steam inlet 400 psi 750 deg F; double automatic extraction @145 psi and 45 psi. Condensing. 17-stage. (Ref# W97-STG-4)

* 6900 KW ABB. 60 Hz. 650 psi 750 deg F. Condensing. Less than 4000 operating hours. (Ref# W98-STG-7)

* 7000 KW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. Condensing. 400 psi 700 deg F. Double automatic extraction. (Ref# W98-STG-33)

* 7250 kW ELLIOTT. 60 Hz. 12500V. Steam inlet 400 psig 725 deg F. Exhaust 2" Hg Abs. 3600 rpm. (Ref# W97-STG-20)

* 7500 kW ELLIOTT. 60 Hz. 12470V. Steam inlet 400 psig 750 deg F. Exhaust 2" Hg Abs. 3600 rpm. (Ref# W97-STG-21)

* 7500 kW DELAVAL (2 available). 60 Hz. Steam inlet 625 psig 825 deg F. (Ref# W97-STG-29)

* 7500 kW GENERAL ELECTRIC Form AA. 60 Hz. 2400/4160 V. 3600 rpm. Steam inlet 400 psig 750 deg F; 11-stage extraction @145psi; exhaust 45 psi. (Ref# W97-STG-3)

* 7500 kW GENERAL ELECTRIC Form JJ. 3/60/2400 V. 3600 rpm. Steam inlet 400 psig 655 deg F; extraction/exhaust 145/76 psi. 15-stage. Condensing. Generator field rewound February 1997. (Ref# W97-STG-2)

* 10 MW ELLIOTT Model 2NC14 (2 available). Steam in 600 psi 825 deg F. 3/60/13200V. 3600 rpm. Complete with ID and FD fans, boiler feed and condensate pumps, air compressors. (Ref# W98-STG-1)

* 12 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. Non-condensing. 260 psi 550 deg F. (Ref# W98-STG-35)

* 12.5 MW ELLIOTT Model 2NC14. Steam in 450 psi 600 deg F. 3/60/13200V. 3600 rpm. (Ref# W97-STG-14)

* 12.5 MW PARSONS. 60 Hz. 600 psi 825 deg F. 6.9 kV. (Ref# W98-STG-21)

* 12.65 MW WESTINGHOUSE. 60 Hz. Steam in 600 psig 825 deg F; outlet 2" Hg. 3600 rpm. (Ref# W97-STG-15)

* 13.365 MW BROWN BOVERI. 60 Hz. Condensing. 1250 psi 950 deg F. Back pressure type. New in 1964. (Ref# W98-STG-39)

* 15 MW PARSON. 60 Hz. 600 psi 825 deg F. 6.9 kV. (Ref# W98-STG-23)

* 16.5 MW WESTINGHOUSE. 60 Hz. Condensing. 850 psi 900 deg F. 12.5 kV. (Ref# W98-STG-19)

* 16.5 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC. Condensing. 60 Hz. 850 psi 900 deg F. 12470V. 3600 rpm. Includes reconditioned condenser, new deaerator, rebuilt boiler feed pumps, piping, drawings, manuals, etc. (Ref# W98-STG-17)

* 18 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. 13200 V. Steam in 850 psig 900 deg F; outlet 1 1/2" Hg. 3600 rpm. (Ref# W97-STG-18)

* 18.235 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. Condensing. 650 psi 750 deg F. 13.8 kV. New in 1996. Only 2000 hours. (Ref# W98-STG-36)

New Listing 19.6 MW ASEA STAL. 60 Hz. Condensing. 1500 psi 1000 deg F. 13.8 kV. With condenser and spare parts. (Ref# W99-STG-2)

* 20 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. Condensing. 950 psi 950 deg F. One automatic controlled extraction; one uncontrolled extraction. Only 10,000 hours. Offered "as is" or refurbished. (Ref# W98-STG-32)

* 20 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. Condensing. 850 psi 900 deg F. 13.8 kV. No asbestos. Priced to sell. (Ref# W98-STG-25)

* 20 MW WESTINGHOUSE. 60 Hz. 13800 V. Steam inlet 1200 psi 950 deg F; exhaust 150 psi. 3600 rpm. Non-condensing. Available spring 1998. (Ref# W97-STG-1)

* 22 MW BROWN BOVERI. 60 Hz. 850 psi 900 deg F. 13.8 kV. (Ref# W98-STG-20)

* 26 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. Condensing. 1450 psi 1000 deg F. Single automatic extraction. Never installed. (Ref# W98-STG-34)

* 30 MW WESTINGHOUSE (2 available). 60 Hz. Condensing. 850 psi 900 deg F. Exhaust 1.5" HgA. 13.8 kV. In extended cold storage. Asbestos-free. (Ref# W98-STG-40) More detailed information

* 31.25 MW ALLIS CHALMERS. 3/60/13800V. Steam inlet 650 psig 825 deg F. 1800 rpm. (Ref# W97-STG-24)

* 40 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. 850 psi 900 deg F. Condensing. Very low hours since overhaul. (Ref# W98-STG-13)

* 44 MW WESTINGHOUSE (3 available). 60 Hz. Condensing. 1250 psi 950 deg F. Exhaust 1.5" HgA. 13.8 kV. In extended cold storage. Asbestos removed. (Ref# W98-STG-41)More detailed information

* 56.9 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. 1350 psi 1000 deg F. 13.8 kV. 3600 rpm. Condensing. Low hours. (Ref# W98-STG-11) Photos and detailed information

* 62 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. 850 psi 900 deg F. Condensing. Very low hours since overhaul. (Ref# W98-STG-14)

* 64 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC (2 available). 60 Hz. 1250 psi 950 deg F. Condensing. Very low hours since overhaul. (Ref# W98-STG-15)

* 66 MW ALLIS CHALMERS. 60 Hz. Condensing. 1250 psi 950 deg F. Exhaust 1.5" HgA. 13.8 kV. Dual fuel boiler available. In operation. Asbestos-free. (Ref# W98-STG-42) More detailed information

* 100 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. 850 psi 900 deg F. 13.8 kV. Straight condensing, double flow. Ideal for combined cycle application. (Ref# W98-STG-18)

* 100 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC. Straight condensing. 60 Hz. 1250 psi 950 deg F. 13800V. 3600 rpm. Complete with controls. Factory overhauled in 1993. Dismantled and ready to ship. Asbestos-free. (Ref# W98-STG-16)

* 100 MW SIEMENS. 50 Hz. 2660 psi 995 deg F. 10500V. 3000 rpm. Condensing. (Ref# W98-STG-8)

* 146 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. Condensing. 1890 psi 1000 deg F. Exhaust 3.5" HgA. 13.8 kV. Dual fuel boiler available. Still operating. Asbestos-free. (Ref# W98-STG-43) More detailed information

* 150 MW ALLIS-CHALMERS. 60 Hz. 18000V. Steam inlet 800 psig 780 deg F; exhaust 1" Hg. 1800 rpm. Complete with all accessories. Less than 25000 hours total running time (Ref# W97-STG-19 )

* 300 MW SIEMENS. 50 Hz. 2312 psi 923 deg F. 21kV. 3000 rpm. Condensing. Never operated. (Ref# W98-STG-9)

* 307.5 MW STEAM TURBINE. 50 Hz. 21000V. Steam inlet 2700 psig 995 deg F. Complete plant available. Priced to sell. (Ref# W97-STG-25)

* 320 MW STEAM TURBINE. (2 available). 50 Hz. 22000 V. Steam inlet 2610 psig 986 deg F. (Ref# W97-STG-33)

* 400 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC. Steam in 2285 psi 1000 deg F. 3/60/22000 V. NEW. (Ref# W98-STG-2)

* 600 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC. 60 Hz. Steam inlet 2400 psig 1000 deg F. Exhaust pressure 3.5" Hg Abs. 3600 rpm. 18 stage. (Ref# W97-STG-16)

* 1144 MW ABB. 60 Hz. Includes stator, exciter, control system, gas plant, cooling system, etc. (Ref# W97-STG-13)

Back to top of TURBINE page Turbines

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Steam Turbines (w/o Generators)

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* ELLIOTT Steam Turbine Model 2AYR. 100 HP. 3550 rpm. Full load steam rate of 37.5 lbs/hr. Inlet 600 psig 750 deg. F ; exhaust 30 psig. (Ref# W97-ST-8)

* ELLIOTT Steam Turbine. 650 HP. Single stage. 175 psig inlet, 25 psig exhaust. With reduction gear. High speed 4440 rpm, low speed 1685 rpm. Priced to sell. (Ref# W97-ST-6)

* ELLIOTT Steam Turbine Model 2DYRFD. 1400 HP 4700 rpm. Full load steam rate of 19.1 lbs/hr. 600 psig steam inlet 750 deg F; exhaust 30 psig. (Ref# W97-ST-9)

* WESTINGHOUSE Steam Turbine. Rated at 1500-2000 kW. Steam inlet 400 psi 528 deg F. Exhaust 50 psi. 3600 rpm. (Ref# W97-ST-2)

* WESTINGHOUSE Steam Turbine. Rated at 3000-3750 kW. Steam inlet 400 psi 675 deg F. Extraction/exhaust 150/60 psi. 3600 rpm. (Ref# W97-ST-1)

* WESTINGHOUSE Steam Turbine. Rated at 4000 kW. Steam inlet 425 psi 750 deg F. (Ref# W97-ST-11)

* WESTINGHOUSE Steam Turbine. Rated at 5000-6290 kW. Steam inlet 400 psi 725 deg F. 3600 rpm. Priced to sell. (Ref# W97-ST-7)

* DELAVAL Steam Turbine Model HJDFMV. 7823 HP. Steam inlet 525 psi, exhaust 4". 9000 rpm. (Ref# W97-ST-4)

* TERRY Steam Turbine Model F10 (3 available). 9500 HP. Steam inlet 609 psi. 4100 rpm. (Ref# W97-ST-12)

* GENERAL ELECTRIC Steam Turbine. 37000 HP. Condensing. Single automatic ectraction. 580 psi 725 deg F. Spare rotor. (Ref# W98-ST-2)

Back to top of TURBINE page Turbines

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Combustion Turbine Generators
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* 200 KW SOLAR KS350 COMBUSTION TURBINE GENERATORS (2 available). 60 Hz. 208/240 volts. Low hours. Priced to sell. Skid-mounted and containerized. (Ref# W98-GTG-30)

New Listing 750 KW SOLAR SATURN COMBUSTION TURBINE. 60 Hz. Enclosed. Very low hours. (Ref# W99-GTG-11)

* 1000 KW ORENDA OT-C-5 COMBUSTION TURBINE GENERATORS (3 available). 60 Hz. Diesel-fired. Can be converted to natural gas. Low hours. Used for standby power by military. (Ref# W98-GTG-30)

* 1200 KW KONGSBERG VIKING MODEL KG2-3 COMBUSTION TURBINE GENERATOR. 50 Hz. Dual fuel. 415 volt, 3 phase, 50 Hz. In sound-attenuated enclosure. Includes electric start, control panel, etc. Less than 2000 hours running time. (Ref# W98-GTG-30)

* 1300 kW KAWASAKI Model MIA-03 (2 available). Natural gas. 60 Hz. In sound- attenuated enclosure. Paralleling switchgear. Very low hours. (Ref# W98-GTG-2)

New Listing 2500 KW SOLAR CENTAUR T4001 COMBUSTION TURBINES (5 available). 60 Hz. Diesel. (Ref# W99-GTG-9)

* 2500 KW SOLAR CENTAUR combustion turbines (2 available). 50 Hz. Diesel-fired. Very low hours. (Ref# W98-GTG-40)

* 3100 kW ALLISON Model 501KB combustion turbine. Dual fuel. 60 Hz. 4800 V. Low NOx. (Ref# W97-GTG-17)

* 3400 KW SOLAR CENTAUR COMBUSTION TURBINE. 60 Hz. Low hours. Complete with waste heat boiler, controls, etc. (Ref# W98-GTG-51)

* 3500 kW ALLISON Model 501KB5 combustion turbine. Dual fuel. 60 Hz. 4160 V. Installed in 1985; completely overhauled in 1995. Low NOx. (Ref# W97-GTG-16)

* 3600 KW ALLISON 501KB5 combustion turbine. 60 Hz. Dual fuel. With warranty. (Ref# W98-GTG-36)


* 5450 kW ORENDA Model OTF-3/1D/1A. Diesel. 60 Hz. Low hours. (Ref# W98-GTG-3)

* 6000 kW RUSTON TORNADO combustion turbine. 60 Hz. Dual fuel. Manufactured in 1988, installed in 1989. (Ref# W99-GTG-6)

* 6900 kW ORENDA Model OT-3 oil-fired combustion turbines (5 available). 60 Hz. 4160 V. Available immediately, "as is, where is." (Ref# W97-GTG-1)

* 8.8 MW SOLAR MARS COMBUSTION TURBINE. 50 Hz. Complete with waste heat boiler, control. etc. (Ref# W98-GTG-52)

* 11 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC LM1500. 60 Hz. Diesel. Skid-mounted. Less than 1000 hours. 3600 rpm. In sound-attenuated building. (Ref# W98-GTG-11)

* 12 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC Frame 5. 60 Hz. 4750 rpm. 16 stage. (Ref# W97-GTG-5)

* 13.75 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC Frame 5. 60 Hz. 13800 V. Includes waste heat boiler (Ref# W97-GTG-2)

* 15 MW BROWN BOVERI COMBUSTION TURBINE. 60 Hz. Dual fuel. 12.5kV. (Ref# W98-GTG-50)

* 15 MW GE/JOHN BROWN FRAME 5LA COMBUSTION TURBINE GENERATORS (2 available). 50 Hz. Dual fuel. 3/50/13.2kV. Complete units, including controls and switchgear. "0" hours since overhaul. (Ref# W98-GTG-28)

* 16 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC FRAME 5M COMBUSTION TURBINE. 60 Hz. Dual fuel. Upgarded from "LA" model. Refurbished to "like new" condition. (Ref# W98-GTG-48)

New Listing 16.5 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC FRAME 5LA COMBUSTION TURBINE GENERATORS (4 available). 50 Hz. Low hours since overhaul. (Ref# W99-GTG-18)

* 17.5 MW GE/NUOVO PIGNONE FRAME 5M COMBUSTION TURBINE GENERATORS (2 available). 50 Hz. Dual fuel. Complete units, including controls and switchgear. (Ref# W98-GTG-27)

New Listing 19.5 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC FRAME 5LA/R COMBUSTION TURBINES. 50 Hz. Dual fuel. Complete with starting motors, exhaust system, controls and switchgear, transformers. (Ref# W99-GTG-7)

* 20 MW GE/JOHN BROWN FRAME 5R COMBUSTION TURBINE GENERATORS (2 available). 50 Hz. Dual fuel. 3/50/13.2kV. Complete units, including controls and switchgear. Overhauled with complete repowering kit and new controls. (Ref# W98-GTG-29)

New Listing 23 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC FRAME 5N COMBUSTION TURBINE. 60 Hz. Dual fuel (natural gas/distillate). (Ref# W99-GTG-14)

* 23 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC LM2500 combustion turbine. 60 Hz. Natural gas. New controls. Zero-houred. (Ref# W98-GTG-39)

* 38 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC FRAME 6 MODEL PG6541 COMBUSTION TURBINES. 60 Hz. Dual fuel (natural gas/distillate). Just efurbished. (Ref# W98-GTG-45)

* 38 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC FRAME 6 MODEL PG6541 COMBUSTION TURBINE. 60 Hz. Natural gas. Just refurbished. (Ref# W98-GTG-46)

New Listing 38 MW THOMASSEN FRAME 6 COMBUSTION TURBINE. 60 Hz. Dual fuel. Also available: HRSG and steam turbine. (Ref# W99-GTG-8)

New Listing 42 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC LM6000 COMBUSTION TURBINE. 50 Hz. Diesel. New/unused. In storage. (Ref# W99-GTG-5)

New Listing 44 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC LM6000 COMBUSTION TURBINES (3 available). 60 Hz. New; never installed. With step-up transformers. (Ref# W99-GTG-15)

* 51 MW PRATT AND WHITNEY FT4C-1 TWIN PACS (2 available). 60 Hz. Dual fuel. Included with each twin oac: two (2) P&W GG4C aeroderivative jet engines, two (2) P&W FT4C turbines, and one (1) Electric Machinery synchronous generator (51750 kW; 13.8 kV). Used for peaking only. Less than 5000 hours. (Ref# W98-GTG-31)

* 70 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC FRAME 7E. 60 Hz. Dual fuel. Installed in 1982. Decommissioned in 1992. (Ref# W98-P-11)

New Listing 84 MW ABB MODEL 11N COMBUSTION TURBINE. 60 Hz. Now operating on diesel; can be converted to natural gas. Manufactured in 1990. Less than 500 hours. (Ref# W99-GTG-1)

New Listing 88 MW FIAT AVIO TG50C (WESTINGHOUSE 501D) COMBUSTION TURBINES (4 available). 50 Hz. Dual fuel. 16 kV. (Ref# W99-GTG-16)

* 92 MW FIAT AVIO (WESTINGHOUSE) COMBUSTION TURBINES (2 available). 50 Hz. Dual fuel (natural gas/distillate). Complete with controls, fire protection system, inlet air filters and silencers, diesel blackstart engine. (Ref# W98-GTG-16)

New Listing 123 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC FRAME 9E COMBUSTION TURBINES. 50 Hz. Enclosed. Dual fuel. Low hours. With transformers. (Ref# W99-GTG-13)

New Listing 140 MW FIAT AVIO TG50D5 (WESTINGHOUSE 501D5) COMBUSTION TURBINES (2 available). 50 Hz. Dual fuel. New; never installed. (Ref# W99-GTG-17)

* 160 MW GENERAL ELECTRIC FRAME 7FA. 60 Hz. Dual fuel. With HRSG. Low NOx. New; unused. (Ref# W98-GTG-8)

Back to top of TURBINE page Turbines

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Gas Turbines (w/o/ Generators)
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* TURBODYNE Model SST II Frame 502 HWK. 637 HP 9309 rpm. (Ref# W97-GT-1)

Back to top of TURBINE page Turbines

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**** All listed equipment subject to prior sale ****
--------------------

Contact us for further information or if you would like for us to list your surplus equipment:

GLOBAL POWER RESOURCES, Inc.
P.O. Box 1065 Micanopy Florida 32667-1065
Phone: 352-466-0602 -- Fax: 352-466-0088
E-mail: sirco atlantic.net
http://www.atlantic.net/~sirco


--------------------

Back to:
Available Equipment
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Site last updated: 5 April 1999
Send comments or questions to: sirco atlantic.net


--------------------

--------------47F08CC14CDB9BDAD5C57D7E-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 6 04:59:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA00924; Thu, 6 May 1999 04:57:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 04:57:25 -0700 Message-ID: <37318302.544B756A earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 05:54:43 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Cogeneration Buyers Guide Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2C6613A1FCC8764AB75113F6" Resent-Message-ID: <"b3ZK42.0.ME.bEOCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27207 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2C6613A1FCC8764AB75113F6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.energy.rochester.edu/cogen/chpguide.htm --------------2C6613A1FCC8764AB75113F6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1; name="chpguide.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline; filename="chpguide.htm" Content-Base: "http://www.energy.rochester.edu/cogen/ chpguide.htm" Cogeneration Buyers Guide

Cogeneration Buyers Guide

Cogeneration, or combined heat and power, is an enormous and growing mark= et, which has littlepresence on the internet. This buyers guide will pro= vide information about products and servicesof interest to the cogenerati= on industry. Be sure to check out the IDEA Buyers' Guide and theCHPA Buy= ers' Guide, too.

Prime Movers

The common fe= ature in all cogeneration systems is the prime mover, which will either c= onvertwaste heat into power or generate heat and power from a single ener= gy input. Prime movers caneither be reciprocating engines (such as an au= tomobile engine, which produces both power andheat) or a turbine. Turbin= es can be powered by steam, hot air, and occasionally other media. Combus= tion turbines have a compressor, combustor, and hot air turbine in a sing= le unit. Primemovers can be combined in a variety of ways to increase en= ergy utilization. One commonmethod is to use the waste heat from an engi= ne or combustion turbine to generate steam, which isthen used to power a = steam turbine. A simple cycle plant has a single prime mover, and acombi= ned cycle plant will have two in series.

Reciprocating Engines


Combustion Turbines

For general information on gas turbines, check out International Gas Turbine Institute

Steam Turbines


Fuel Cells

Fuels cells provide an excellent cogeneration opportunity. Several proto= types are being used in cogeneration applications, and may prove to be co= mmercially viable.

Heat Recovery Apparatus

Although the heat from an engine can sometimes be used directly, such as = using hot water from an engine cooling jacket, recovering heat from hot e= xhaust air usually requires some form of heat recovery apparatus.

Heat Recovery Steam Generators (HRSG)


Consultants, Contractors & Developers

Cogeneration projects range from the very simple to the enormously comple= x. While some organizations have the skills and resources to do some or = all of the required work in-house,others will need to contract for some o= r all of this work from one or more outside firms. As this list grows, i= t will be divided into subsections, which may include:
    =
  • Initial evaluation =
  • Engineering =
  • Economic & financial evaluation =
  • Financing
  • Construction
  • Fuel Selection and Procurement =
  • Alternatives to cogeneration (i.e. retail wheeling, etc.)
  • =
  • Maintenance
  • =
  • Ownership options
In the meantime:


Legal Services

Electric generation, in particular, is a highly regulated industry, but q= ualified legal assistance can be of assistance to all parties throughout = the various phases of a cogeneration project.
Please contact
Morris A. Pie= rce to add products or services to this list. = Links to or from other relevant web sites are welcome.

Last updated 19 May 1998 --------------2C6613A1FCC8764AB75113F6-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 6 20:41:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA13903; Thu, 6 May 1999 20:39:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 20:39:44 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 23:06:17 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: H2 Calibration To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"jnAJ5.0.4P3.02cCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27208 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All, Finished construction of the shield sensor assembly and first test showed up some minor problems. The approx 1 inch insulation is not good enough for calorimetry as the outside of the can gets too hot to touch (~90 C estimated) at a tube temperature of 250 C. Electrical noise greatly minimized but not yet eliminated. Will add shielded cable for all high voltage wiring. I have a supply of 40 kV cable which I will enclose in braided shield. Adding ground bonds to the various parts of the system will take care of noise, not to mention safety. Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 7 00:12:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA32432; Fri, 7 May 1999 00:10:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 00:10:49 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: H2K: H2 Calibration/Calorimetry Electronics Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 03:14:31 -0400 Message-ID: <19990507071431578.AAA274 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"YhF8L2.0.gw7.u7fCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27209 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ahoy! I ran across some interesting stuff the other day while searching for something totally unrelated to this subject. This website includes a section devoted to calorimetry electronics at: http://d0server1.fnal.gov/users/huffman/ The author of the site is named David Huffman, and I have a brother named David that lives in that same area. I'll have to give my brother a call to see if he is living some kind of double life. Last I heard, he wasn't into particle physics, but then, you never know with my family 8^) While doing another search a while back, I ran across my other brother's name, Jim Huffman. My has spent his entire working career at United Airlines. He is in charge of ground crews, plane maintenence crews, and ticketing personnel. When I checked out the website that was listed in his name, up popped this photo of a guy that looked remarkably like my brother, standing on a tarmac in Alaska. He looked so much like my brother that it was downright spooky. Same hair, build, glasses, and goofy smile. At one time, my brother had been responsible for the Alaskan airport ground crews, as well as all the other United ground crews in airports on the West Coast. This Jim Huffman who had authored the site that I was looking at, had spent his entire working career as a ground crew specialist in the Air Force. He was looking for a job in the private sector. On another weird search, I ran across a Museum of Bicycle History. At one time, the museum notes, bicycles were considered by many to be crazy and useless inventions. In the museum were some photos of classic bicycles, and to my surprise, some of the earliest ones were Huffys. My Dad, George Huffman, had always given us Huffy bicycles when we were kids. My grandfather's nickname was Huffy, and my Dad just thought it was a cute idea that we should all ride Huffy bicycles. When I read up on the bicycles that were listed in the museum, I found that they were manufactured by the Huffman Manufacturing Company in Ohio. The company was founded by a George Huffman in 1888. They even were a government supplier during WW2. They made a rugged bicycle that was used around military bases to deliver mail and messages to save precious fuel. When I last talked to my Dad, I asked him if he had any knowledge of this, and he said it was all news to him. He said that he knew that his family had come from Ohio and settled in Indiana, where he was born, but beyond that, he didn't know. Then there is that business with the Wright brothers (bicycle mechanics extraordinaire) flying their first airplanes on Huffman Flats or Huffman Prairie, depending on which history you read, in Ohio. It just made me wonder if there was some kind of weird, pioneering technology gene that the Human Genome Project hasn't identified yet that compels certain people to be interested in certain endeavors. Or maybe it's a thought wavelength, or a name-based projection or association/expectation of some kind. Who knows? It's kind of interesting though, huh? Just thought I'd wing that one at you 8^) Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 7 04:17:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA14415; Fri, 7 May 1999 04:16:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 04:16:41 -0700 Message-ID: <3732CAAF.66B0B083 earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 05:12:48 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, Claytor@lanl.gov, Ron.Brodzinski@pnl.gov Subject: Re: Neutrino Collisions And Cold Fusion Heat? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5NR_m1.0.9X3.PkiCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27210 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex In a CF reaction: Deuteron-Neutrino + Deuteron ----> He4 + Neutrino + 23 Mev sans Gammas or Neutrons, due to it's Large Size, R = kq^2/Eo (about 28 angstroms) the Neutrino having a charge the same as an Electron and as much as 23 Mev kinetic energy can collide with hundreds or thousands of Local Electrons At Once, thus giving each electron a few thousand ev to a few hundred thousand ev in "Thermalizing". IOW, The "where did it go?" syndrome, changes from Neutrinos being "neutral" and able to penetrate "light years of lead without detection", are stopped in a few angstroms and hang around as "Static Electricity". :-) On the Sun where they experience a gravitational force, Fg = 6.67E-11*2E30*9.1E-37/(7E8)^2 = 2.5E-34 nt, and an Electrostatic Force, Fes = k*q*e-/(7E8)^2 if the Sun's gravity is collecting Neutrinos from the estimated 2E8 Neutrinos/Meter^3 from the surrounding Space, a balance of Gravitational Force Fg = Electrostatic Force Fes: q = 2.5E-34*R^2/k*e- = 8.4E-8 coulombs. If you go beyond this balance force, the Sun becomes a "Neutrino Accelerator" and fires them into the Earth's Atmosphere as "Solar Cosmic Rays" and they are "thermalized" in the upper atmosphere where they attach to O2/O3 as "small ions" (about 5,000/cm^3 at 20 km). Some arrive as small ions at sea level (about 500/cm^3) as well as attaching to cat fur as Static Electricity. :-) TGIF! Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 7 09:15:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA13339; Fri, 7 May 1999 09:12:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 09:12:57 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 07:26:14 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: H2K: H2 Calibration Resent-Message-ID: <"jsoV-.0.LG3.94nCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27211 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:57 PM 5/5/99, VCockeram aol.com wrote: [snip] >Not calorimetry yet, but yes, gravity coolant flow if it gets too hot. >Small pump in a pan on the floor feeding a can w/valve hung from the ceiling. >Won't get much flow though through the 1/8 _OD_ tubing. May have to run >with a fluidic pressure intensifier (a pump :-) This is an excellent configuration for calorimetry, IMHO, because the fluid flow rate is determined by first principles, the measuring of time and volume, and not dependent on the assumed flow rate of a constant rate pump. The only additional things needed for calorimetry are inlet and outlet thermometers, and a convenient place to break into the water flow, on the down side from the cooling jacket, to measure flow rate by timing the filling of a known volume. A simple way to do this is to let the water fall the last couple feet or so. Doing this avoids pressure changes when you "cut in" to measure fluid flow, plus gives you visual and auditory feedback regarding flow rate. The 1/8 OD tubing should be OK, but you can find out by running the water through it into a container of known volume and measuring the fill time. The supply lines should be a larger size, though. If the supply lines are plastic or rubber, care must be taken to hold them rigidly in place to maintain a constant flow resistance. Once the reactor tube stabilizes at a constant operating temperature you can measure the flow rate and it should remain constant in stable thermal conditions, so spot checks of flow rate should be sufficient. A low water (but consistant) flow rate can actually help, provided the water does not boil. You get a larger temperature difference, thus a more accurate measurement of the temperature difference. If you have the above calorimtery, then the reactor tube surface temperature is only ancillary information. The only data that really counts is fluid flow rate and inlet and outlet fluid temperature, and power input. Assuming the copper jacket is well grounded, and the power leads shielded, you will not have to worry so much about additional shielding just to measure the water temperatures. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 7 10:24:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA04879; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:23:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 10:23:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990507122441.00a5e694 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 12:24:41 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: H2K: gravity flow In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"nwLwB1.0.5C1.H6oCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27212 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:26 5/7/99 -0900, Horace wrote: >This is an excellent configuration for calorimetry, IMHO, because the fluid >flow rate is determined by first principles, the measuring of time and >volume, and not dependent on the assumed flow rate of a constant rate pump. This is how my first calorimeter worked and it was pretty stable...usually. Several times, however, the flow rate would drop noticeably because some tiny piece of debris got lodged in the small lines somewhere. Thus the bottom line is the same as with a "constant" rate pump: You still have to check the flow rate periodically. Your idea for the "falling zone", where a vessel may be inserted to capture the flow with zero perturbation of the rest of the system is very good. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 7 11:01:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA21454; Fri, 7 May 1999 11:00:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:00:21 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990507105538.009385f0 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: Tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 11:00:08 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Case, IE Video: "1 ATM 200 C" ?????? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"UIPN13.0.7F5.qeoCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27213 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On the Infinite Energy Video, "Cold Fusion: Fire From Water" Les Case is showing his device and the thermometer gauge which reads 215 C or so. Then, he says that it is novel to have nuclear reactions going on in such a device, ie it is cold by nuclear reaction standards. But, water boils at 100 C. Is this an error, ie, is Case's device pressurized rather than at 1 atm? I would question whether the instrument was really at 215 F, except that it showed the F temp which was much higher, and it showed that the 200+ temp was clearly labeled C degrees. What is up? Confused ME rt From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 7 11:39:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA03096; Fri, 7 May 1999 11:37:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:37:58 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990507143801.007aab60 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 14:38:01 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Case, IE Video: "1 ATM 200 C" ?????? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990507105538.009385f0 pop3.oro.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"X3OcG.0.Em.5CpCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27214 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: rt asks: Is this an error, ie, is Case's device pressurized rather than at 1 atm? It's a gas cell, not liquid. Yes, it has to be pressurized but the boiling point of water (or D2O) is irrelivant. When there is oxygen trapped in the catalyst you do get a buildup of steam, which has to be vented. You have to cycle it 3 to 5 times, I think. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 7 16:56:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA22502; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:51:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 16:51:59 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990507164832.00946100 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: Tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 16:51:43 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: Case, IE Video: "1 ATM 200 C" ?????? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990507143801.007aab60 pop.mindspring.com> References: <4.1.19990507105538.009385f0 pop3.oro.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"XjzlY.0.WV5.VotCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27215 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:38 PM 5/7/99 -0400, you wrote: >rt asks: > >Is this an error, ie, is Case's device pressurized rather than at 1 atm? > >It's a gas cell, not liquid. Yes, it has to be pressurized but the boiling >point of water (or D2O) is irrelivant. Case said that it was at one atmosphere in the video. Does he do it sometimes presurized and sometimes atmospheric pressure? Also, if it is a gas cell, is the gas D2 or D2O or other or not disclosed? And he showed the carbon catalyst in his hand. Is the inside of the cell filled up with that stuff, plus the gas, and then just heated, or is there current passed through the stuff like in the Patterson cell? Thanks. rt From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 7 18:27:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA22013; Fri, 7 May 1999 18:26:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 18:26:02 -0700 Message-ID: <19990508012917.27080.rocketmail web114.yahoomail.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 18:29:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: H2K: H2 Calibration/Calorimetry Electronics To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"jZlpb1.0.qN5.gAvCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27216 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael T Huffman wrote: > I ran across some interesting stuff the other day while searching >for something totally unrelated to this subject. This website includes a >section devoted to calorimetry electronics at: >http://d0server1.fnal.gov/users/huffman/ [snip] This is a different kind of calorimetry than we usually talk about here. I don't know much about it, but I'll share what I know. Particle accelerators (this web page is at Fermilab) have one or more "detectors" to analyze the particles produced by the collision between the high energy primary and target particles. A detector is actually a large array of many kinds of instruments making different measurements. "Calorimeters" are one class of instruments. I don't actually know about the usage, but I suspect that in experimental particle physics the word "calorimeter" means an instrument that measures the energy of product particles. === Michael J. Schaffer _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 7 21:14:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA24493; Fri, 7 May 1999 21:10:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 21:10:53 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990507231434.008e4750 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 23:14:34 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: H2K: H2 Calibration/Calorimetry Electronics In-Reply-To: <19990508012917.27080.rocketmail web114.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"K5Lbm1.0.d-5.CbxCt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27217 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:29 PM 5/7/99 -0700, Michael Schaffer wrote: >...I suspect that in experimental particle physics the word >"calorimeter" means an instrument that measures the energy of product particles. That's what I got out of it, too. If that's the case, I've been working with "calorimeters" longer than I thought. In x-ray fluorescence, one strives to achieve a detector which will faithfully and precisely reveal the energy of each detected x-ray. Examples (in order of increasing precision) include: NaI scintillators, proportional counters, HgI2, and Si(Li) solid-state detectors. All of these detectors could be called calorimeters under the definition the particle physicists are using. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 8 01:16:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA09191; Sat, 8 May 1999 01:15:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 01:15:15 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: <82fca448.24654c78 aol.com> Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 04:14:48 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: H2 Calibration To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"j_A4-.0.TF2.IA_Ct" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27218 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 05/07/1999 09:14:42 Pacific Daylight Time, hheffner mtaonline.net writes: > At 11:57 PM 5/5/99, VCockeram aol.com wrote: > [snip] > >Not calorimetry yet, ..... > > This is an excellent configuration for calorimetry, IMHO, because the fluid > flow rate is determined by first principles, the measuring of time and > volume, and not dependent on the assumed flow rate of a constant rate pump. I stumbled into what may be a decent calorimeter? OK, I'll take it! I think adding additional insulation ( which will be easy) will help too. The test I ran night before last where I stated that the can got too hot to touch was an artifact. A set of small leaf springs grip the tube at the top and bottom of the sensor can and the lower spring was near the bottom of the tube where there was poor contact between the lower carbon electrode and the stub of the lower electrical contact. This caused a high temperature area right where the lower leaf springs were gripping the tube and the springs transferred the heat to the can itself. Problem solved by insuring the lower carbon electrode is in _tight_ contact with the lower tube internal electrical connection. > The only additional things needed for calorimetry are inlet and outlet > thermometers, and a convenient place to break into the water flow, on the > down side from the cooling jacket, to measure flow rate by timing the > filling of a known volume. A simple way to do this is to let the water > fall the last couple feet or so. Doing this avoids pressure changes when > you "cut in" to measure fluid flow, plus gives you visual and auditory > feedback regarding flow rate. Looks like I have to scout for some good thermometers, plastic tubing, "T's", buckets and a small pump for the return line. I do have graduated beakers and assorted valves. > > The 1/8 OD tubing should be OK, but you can find out by running the water > through it into a container of known volume and measuring the fill time. > The supply lines should be a larger size, though. If the supply lines are > plastic or rubber, care must be taken to hold them rigidly in place to > maintain a constant flow resistance. Once the reactor tube stabilizes at a > constant operating temperature you can measure the flow rate and it should > remain constant in stable thermal conditions, so spot checks of flow rate > should be sufficient. A low water (but consistent) flow rate can actually > help, provided the water does not boil. You get a larger temperature > difference, thus a more accurate measurement of the temperature difference. > > If you have the above colorimetry, then the reactor tube surface > temperature is only ancillary information. I am not measuring reactor tube surface temperature with the new setup, The thermocouple is attached to the wall of the 1/2 inch copper pipe that encloses the quartz tube and has approx. 1/8 inch air space between the ID of the copper pipe and the OD of the quartz tube. The copper pipe is necked down to a tight fit to the quartz tube at a point 1 inch above the upper electrode and 1 inch below the lower electrode, electrode gap is 1 inch and the copper pipe is 3 inches in length. > The only data that really counts is fluid flow rate and inlet and outlet fluid > temperature, and power input. Agreed. > Assuming the copper jacket is well grounded, and the power leads > shielded, you will not have to worry so much about additional shielding > just to measure the water temperatures. Yes, I spent all day Friday just working on eliminating electrical noise from the rig. (This was one of my specialties when I was working with IBM) A good solid ground buss, Shielded cable throughout and a good low impedance path to earth. I also remounted the HV transformer so now the cables are 4 inch 40kV shielded wire well grounded. (They were orig. hookup wire about a foot long) (What I had was a Marconi transmitter) A quick test with full power input to the setup showed I had eliminated the jittery readings on the digital thermometer and the pressure readout module. Thanks for the tips Horace. > Regards, > Horace Heffner > Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 8 05:18:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA16298; Sat, 8 May 1999 05:17:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 05:17:54 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: H2K: H2 Calibration/Calorimetry Electronics Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 08:21:39 -0400 Message-ID: <19990508122139078.AAA270 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"hHOgo3.0.a-3.oj2Dt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27219 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mike wrote: > This is a different kind of calorimetry than we usually talk about here. >I don't know much about it, but I'll share what I know. > > Particle accelerators (this web page is at Fermilab) have one or more >"detectors" to analyze the particles produced by the collision between the >high energy primary and target particles. A detector is actually a large >array of many kinds of instruments making different measurements. >"Calorimeters" are one class of instruments. I don't actually know about >the usage, but I suspect that in experimental particle physics the word >"calorimeter" means an instrument that measures the energy of product particles. >=== >Michael J. Schaffer Hi Mike, Yeah, I know, and it certainly differs from the "let's put a dime-store thermometer over here" kind of heat measurements that I was doing. There were some articles on isolating and eliminating electrical noise on this webpage, though, that I thought you might be interested in. Much data from Vince's exeriment will be meaningless if it is later found that the signal wasn't properly isolated. Your input and Scott's have helped a lot in this regard, but I've found that sometimes reading outside of the field can be illuminating and helpful, as well. As it is, I think that Vince's experiment is quite well constructed, actually, and I just thought that I'd throw the Fermilab URL at you or anybody else that was interested in the broader field of calorimetry. You won't find that URL if you do a normal websearch search on the subject, I guarantee you, and there is some good stuff in there. Now, back to the regularly scheduled programming:) Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 8 05:34:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA20852; Sat, 8 May 1999 05:33:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 05:33:39 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 03:46:50 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: H2K: H2 Calibration Resent-Message-ID: <"zcdK_2.0.f55.Yy2Dt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27220 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 4:14 AM 5/8/99, VCockeram aol.com wrote: > Looks like I have to scout for some good thermometers, > plastic tubing, "T's", buckets and a small pump for the return line. > I do have graduated beakers and assorted valves. You already have a fairly good one? Your thermocouple thermometer? You just don't want to waste the input on measuring the jacket temperature. I can send you some (free) teflon coated thermistors accurate to +- 0.02 C relative, and they are good in the 0 C to 100 C range, if memory serves me. If you epoxy them to the inlet and outlet and insulate around them, it should work OK. Scott Little uses similar thermocouples in his calorimeter, but unfortunately mine are 100 K and his are 10 K, I think, so if you wanted to use his data aquisition stuff dierectly some modification to the software or hardware would be required. If you simply used an ohmmeter, there is a formula that converts resistance to temperature that can be used in a spreadsheet to calculate your values. If the serial interface is hooked up on your Radio Shack meter, you could convert to temperature by computer. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 8 06:07:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA29761; Sat, 8 May 1999 06:06:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 06:06:34 -0700 Message-ID: <373435E2.C94EC9B winternet.com> Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 08:02:26 -0500 From: Bob Fickle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: H2K: H2 Calibration/Calorimetry Electronics References: <19990508012917.27080.rocketmail web114.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8v1gO3.0.xG7.QR3Dt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27221 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This kind of "calorimeter" is used in high-energy physics to record the energy of individual subatomic particles. The term arises because, in principle, one could measure the energy of a particle (a proton or gamma ray, for example) by slamming it into a block of inert material and measuring the change in the block's temperature. In practice, the material is a stack of steel or lead plates. The particle interacts with the plates to form a shower of secondary particles of successively lower energy, until their energies become too low to cause further reactions. Ionization detectors or scintillation detectors interspersed with the plates are used to measure the number of charged particles in the shower, and this serves as a measure of the original particle's energy. Typically you'd be looking at individual particles having an energy of at least 100 MeV with such a device. Michael Schaffer wrote: > Michael T Huffman wrote: > > > I ran across some interesting stuff the other day while searching > >for something totally unrelated to this subject. This website includes a > >section devoted to calorimetry electronics at: > >http://d0server1.fnal.gov/users/huffman/ > [snip] > > This is a different kind of calorimetry than we usually talk about here. > I don't know much about it, but I'll share what I know. > > Particle accelerators (this web page is at Fermilab) have one or more > "detectors" to analyze the particles produced by the collision between the > high energy primary and target particles. A detector is actually a large > array of many kinds of instruments making different measurements. > "Calorimeters" are one class of instruments. I don't actually know about > the usage, but I suspect that in experimental particle physics the word > "calorimeter" means an instrument that measures the energy of product particles. > === > Michael J. Schaffer > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 8 06:54:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA04365; Sat, 8 May 1999 06:53:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 06:53:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199905081352.JAA26893 mercury.mv.net> Subject: Videotape: Cold Fusion: Fire from Water Date: Sat, 8 May 99 09:52:13 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"QHFEd.0.441.V74Dt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27222 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: *** ANNOUNCEMENT *** Now available for immediate purchase and prompt delivery: "Cold Fusion: Fire From Water" Copyright 1999 A Documentary Videotape (70-minutes) about one of the most controversial scientific discoveries of all time. Appearing in this program: "I've become convinced, from my original skepticism, to 99% certainty that [cold fusion] is for real. The evidence now is really overwhelming." - Sir Arthur C. Clarke A 70 Minute Videotape, NOW AVAILABLE! See: http://www.infinite-energy.com >From the back of the videotape box: THE BIRTH OF THE WATER FUEL AGE? In this fascinating documentary narrated by James Doohan, "Scotty" of Star Trek fame, find out what happened to the Cold Fusion discovery in the years since the announcement at the University of Utah. On March 23, 1989, respected chemists Drs. Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons claimed that a table-top, glass cell filled with heavy water, fitted with a palladium electrode, produced so much heat beyond the power put in that the mysterious energy source had to be nuclear. They said it was probably related to nuclear fusion, which powers the stars. The new "fire" from water could not be coming from ordinary chemical reactions; it was far too much energy. Nuclear reactions in a jar of water, producing heat but no deadly radiation? If the shocking claim was real, the world might have a source of infinite, clean energy from the abundant fusion fuel in all water. Thus began the Cold Fusion controversy, one of the greatest revolutions in the history of science. The facts of Cold Fusion's birth are far more dramatic than any fiction! LEARN THAT... * Cold Fusion is the ultimate renewable energy source. It promises the beginning of a Water Fuel Age early in the 21st Century. * Vested interests in Academia launched a "Cold Fusion War" against the new science that continues to this day. * What Fleischmann and Pons discovered in the mid-1980s was probably merely the tip of an iceberg of a much larger discovery that might be called "Modern Alchemy." * Dozens of scientific theories have been put forth by top scientists to explain Cold Fusion. * Cold Fusion is very much alive. It has been confirmed in hundreds of experiments done in many countries. Commercial activity is underway to develop this revolutionary clean energy source and the other discoveries it inspired...such as the potential to neutralize radioactive waste! * This real discovery will drastically change the world early in the 21st Century. By exploring the history of the discovery and witnessing people working in the field today in laboratories and companies, decide for yourself whether Cold Fusion is one of the greatest discoveries of all time - really a "miracle" in water. "It could be the end of the fossil fuel age: the end of oil and coal. And the end, incidentally, of many of our worries about global pollution and global warming." - Futurist and author, Sir Authur C. Clarke. This outstanding and informative tape features the appearance of no less than 22 cold fusion scientists and technologists. Four prominent "skeptics" also appear. View this program and make up your own mind about cold fusion. Infinite Energy Magazine P.O. Box 2816 Concord, NH 03302-2816 PH: 603-228-4516 FX: 603-224-5975 http://www.infinite-energy.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Available postpaid in the U.S. , Canada, and Mexico for $34.95 (USD) and Shipped to OTHER foreign destinations for $44.95 (USD). The Video Tape Promotion Website at http://www.mv.com/ipusers/zeropoint/IEHTML/promos.html includes: * An internet order form (Visa, M/C, AmExp) * A picture of the videotape box * And more information!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 8 06:59:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA06738; Sat, 8 May 1999 06:59:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 06:59:19 -0700 Message-ID: <3734422E.3E49E5A6 earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 07:54:56 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Tv/Computer Monitor Consultants Sought Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sJP8M1.0.Cf1.tC4Dt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27223 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex With the thought that there should be Light Leptons (Solar Neutrinos) with a mass of 0.51 ev or less (9.1E-37 kg) bouncing around in a Tv Picture tube or Computer Monitor, modification of a Junker might show these Leptons as they hit the Phosphor. At 20 Kv the LL Relativistic mass will be 9.1E-37[(20,000/0.51)+1] kg and moving very close to the speed of light c. Regular Electrons will be moving at a velocity : v = (2*20,000*1.6E-19/9.1E-31)^1/2. Using the horizontal or vertical deflection coils (about 400 ohms and 0.3 amps normally) with a variable D.C. power supply in place of the Vertical or Horizontal oscillator output, with enough D.C. input for a 1.0E-4 Tesla (1.0 Gauss) Or More, the regular electrons should sweep a radius R = m*v/q*B of about 15 feet and the LLs a radius R = Mrel*c/q*B of about 1/2 ft. Now the question. Can you disconnect the output of the Horizontal Oscillator and still excite the High Voltage output from the flyback transformer? And what can be done to the Vertical Oscillator out put to compensate for disconnecting the Vertical Deflection coils? It might be fun to leave them connected. :-) Next: the filament voltage can be lowered to cut down on Regular electron emission. etc. and Ion traps should be removed (If they still use them). All ideas appreciated, (if the price is right) :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 8 07:27:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA11471; Sat, 8 May 1999 07:26:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 07:26:43 -0700 From: mrb ap.net Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990508072900.0085b760 mail.ap.net> X-Sender: mrb mail.ap.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 07:29:00 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Videotape: Cold Fusion: Fire from Water In-Reply-To: <199905081352.JAA26893 mercury.mv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"A2JmT2.0.5p2.Zc4Dt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27224 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:52 AM 5/8/99 -0000, Gene Mallove wrote: > > *** ANNOUNCEMENT *** > >Now available for immediate purchase and prompt delivery: > > "Cold Fusion: Fire From Water" > Copyright 1999 > >A Documentary Videotape (70-minutes) about one of the most >controversial scientific discoveries of all time. > Vo, Everyone I know who has viewed this video has been very favorably impressed. It is a remarkable piece of work. Excellent photography, original music and brilliant editing. A documentary of a quality rarely achieved. Gene & Jed wrote the script and deserve several rounds of applause. It is well worth the price. I was so impressed I ordered several additional copies. Mark Goldes, Magnetic Power Inc. >Appearing in this program: > >"I've become convinced, from my original skepticism, to 99% certainty that >[cold fusion] is for real. The evidence now is really overwhelming." > - Sir Arthur C. Clarke > >A 70 Minute Videotape, NOW AVAILABLE! > >See: http://www.infinite-energy.com > > >>From the back of the videotape box: > >THE BIRTH OF THE WATER FUEL AGE? > >In this fascinating documentary narrated by James Doohan, "Scotty" of Star >Trek fame, find out what happened to the Cold Fusion discovery in the >years >since the announcement at the University of Utah. On March 23, 1989, >respected chemists Drs. Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons claimed that a >table-top, glass cell filled with heavy water, fitted with a palladium >electrode, produced so much heat beyond the power put in that the >mysterious energy source had to be nuclear. They said it was probably >related to nuclear fusion, which powers the stars. The new "fire" from >water could not be coming from ordinary chemical reactions; it was far too >much energy. Nuclear reactions in a jar of water, producing heat but no >deadly radiation? If the shocking claim was real, the world might have a >source of infinite, clean energy from the abundant fusion fuel in all >water. Thus began the Cold Fusion controversy, one of the greatest >revolutions in the history of science. The facts of Cold Fusion's birth >are far more dramatic than any fiction! > >LEARN THAT... > >* Cold Fusion is the ultimate renewable energy source. It promises the >beginning of a Water Fuel Age early in the 21st Century. > >* Vested interests in Academia launched a "Cold Fusion War" against the >new science that continues to this day. > >* What Fleischmann and Pons discovered in the mid-1980s was probably >merely the tip of an iceberg of a much larger discovery that might be >called "Modern Alchemy." > >* Dozens of scientific theories have been put forth by top scientists to >explain Cold Fusion. > >* Cold Fusion is very much alive. It has been confirmed in hundreds of >experiments done in many countries. Commercial activity is underway to >develop this revolutionary clean energy source and the other discoveries >it >inspired...such as the potential to neutralize radioactive waste! > >* This real discovery will drastically change the world early in the 21st >Century. By exploring the history of the discovery and witnessing people >working in the field today in laboratories and companies, decide for >yourself whether Cold Fusion is one of the greatest discoveries of all >time >- really a "miracle" in water. > >"It could be the end of the fossil fuel age: the end of oil and coal. >And >the end, incidentally, of many of our worries about global pollution and >global warming." - Futurist and author, Sir Authur C. Clarke. > > >This outstanding and informative tape features the appearance of no less >than 22 cold fusion scientists and technologists. Four prominent >"skeptics" also appear. > >View this program and make up your own mind about cold fusion. > >Infinite Energy Magazine >P.O. Box 2816 >Concord, NH 03302-2816 >PH: 603-228-4516 FX: 603-224-5975 >http://www.infinite-energy.com > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >Available postpaid in the U.S. , Canada, and Mexico for $34.95 (USD) > >and > >Shipped to OTHER foreign destinations for $44.95 (USD). > >The Video Tape Promotion Website at > >http://www.mv.com/ipusers/zeropoint/IEHTML/promos.html > >includes: > >* An internet order form (Visa, M/C, AmExp) > >* A picture of the videotape box > >* And more information!!! > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 8 11:19:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA16419; Sat, 8 May 1999 11:18:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 11:18:45 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 09:32:05 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Tv/Computer Monitor Consultants Sought Resent-Message-ID: <"a63JA.0.T04.508Dt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27225 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 7:54 AM 5/8/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] > >All ideas appreciated, (if the price is right) :-) You could use an old style oscilloscope in x-y mode and impose a magnetic field on the beam using a couple coils, or just a big magnet. If the spot separates into two distinct spots you have a positive result. If this experiment were positive it should have been noticed years ago. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 8 11:39:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA19652; Sat, 8 May 1999 11:37:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 11:37:42 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 09:51:02 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Experiment report re: light leptons on oscilloscope Resent-Message-ID: <"a7y3p2.0.-o4.rH8Dt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27226 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To look for the light leptons hypothesized by Fred Sparber an electron beam style oscilloscope was placed in x-y mode and centered the spot in the middle of the screen. Intensity was set so that a spot with about a 1/2 inch halo was produced. A very large field permanent magnet (large phi, not especially large B) was imployed to divert the beam by approaching from a large distance to distance of about two feet. This magnet highly distorts a TV screen at a distance of 3 feet. When diverted, the halo of the oscilloscope beam moved in unison with the spot. There was no sign of beam separation. The experiment was repeated by diverting the beam in various directions including vertical and horizontal. The result of the experiment is negative with regard to a sufficient number of light leptons being present to visibly affect the tube phosphor. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 8 13:44:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA28773; Sat, 8 May 1999 13:41:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 13:41:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3734A083.71207342 earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 14:37:24 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Experiment report re: light leptons on oscilloscope References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P-WPJ2.0.V17.l5ADt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27227 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks Horace. You just walked past the haystack looking for the proverbial needle. :-) What is the voltage on your scope? What was the voltage on the deflection plates wrt to the gun? An LL of .07 ev (going by Case's experiments they could be less than 0.035 ev) at 2 Kev will sweep a radius of about 2.5 inches with a 1.0 gauus B field which is about twice the Earths 0.5 gauss B field. The electron optics of an electrostatic deflection scope (4 inch?)is totally wrong for this experiment. If I was looking for stupid experiments, I would do it myself. :-) Regards, Frederick Horace Heffner wrote: > To look for the light leptons hypothesized by Fred Sparber an electron beam > style oscilloscope was placed in x-y mode and centered the spot in the > middle of the screen. Intensity was set so that a spot with about a 1/2 > inch halo was produced. > > A very large field permanent magnet (large phi, not especially large B) was > imployed to divert the beam by approaching from a large distance to > distance of about two feet. This magnet highly distorts a TV screen at a > distance of 3 feet. When diverted, the halo of the oscilloscope beam moved > in unison with the spot. There was no sign of beam separation. The > experiment was repeated by diverting the beam in various directions > including vertical and horizontal. > > The result of the experiment is negative with regard to a sufficient number > of light leptons being present to visibly affect the tube phosphor. > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 8 15:07:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10116; Sat, 8 May 1999 15:05:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 15:05:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 13:12:58 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Experiment report re: light leptons on oscilloscope Resent-Message-ID: <"5mMi33.0.yT2.1LBDt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27228 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 2:37 PM 5/8/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: >Thanks Horace. You just walked past the haystack looking for the proverbial >needle. :-) > >What is the voltage on your scope? Don't know offhand. >What was the voltage on the deflection >plates wrt to the gun? Why is deflection plate voltage wrt to the gun important? The important thing is obtaining zero deflection voltage, right? The beam was centered, so deflection voltage should be about zero. What I didn't do is establish a null magnetic environment. However, I was able to rotate the magnetic field through the zero point and no second spot showed up, so that should be sufficient? > >An LL of .07 ev (going by Case's experiments they could be less than 0.035 ev) >at 2 Kev will sweep a radius of about 2.5 inches with a 1.0 gauus B field >which is about twice the Earths 0.5 gauss B field. The electron optics of an >electrostatic deflection scope (4 inch?)is totally wrong for this experiment. My objective was to avoid electrostatic deflection at all. That's why I used x-y mode instead of t-y, so as to get a stationary spot. > >If I was looking for stupid experiments, I would do it myself. :-) Not likely. You're a theory guy, remember? 8^) Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 8 16:11:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA05817; Sat, 8 May 1999 16:10:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 16:10:53 -0700 Message-ID: <3734C388.43557100 earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 17:06:49 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Experiment report re: light leptons on oscilloscope References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ctB212.0.pQ1.yHCDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27229 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > At 2:37 PM 5/8/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: > >Thanks Horace. You just walked past the haystack looking for the proverbial > >needle. :-) > > > >What is the voltage on your scope? > > Don't know offhand. If you don't get the voltage up Before The Deflection Plates ( Mrel = Mo[(eV/eVo)+1] most likelyif these exist, and are not stuck to the metal or glass parts (Electron Affinity 0.5 to 2.0 ev) they will go into the gun assembly or the deflection plates. Or they could be sticking to residual atoms/molecules in the CRT which might explain the mysterious "Negative Ions" and the Negative Ion Burn spot on the center of the tube that has plagued CRT designs since day one. This is why a bent gun and/or an ion trap is used. If this experiment is Carefully Controlled and the Electron Spot is Masked over with tape, In a darkened room one might see a few scintillations from these in a matter of hours. > >What was the voltage on the deflection > >plates wrt to the gun? > > Why is deflection plate voltage wrt to the gun important? The important > thing is obtaining zero deflection voltage, right? The beam was centered, > so deflection voltage should be about zero. If you are dealing with particles millionths of the mass of an electron and millions of times larger, the deflection plates floating at some potential wrt the gun is a problem. > What I didn't do is establish a null magnetic environment. However, I was > able to rotate the magnetic field through the zero point and no second spot > showed up, so that should be sufficient? Can't be done unless you exclude the Earth's B field also. What I posted was a question relating to MODIFICATION OF THE VERTICAL & HORIZONTAL CIRCUITS Of A TV TUBE so that the 21+ inch tubes on an existing chassis would give some leeway in a CAREFUL experiment. I have over 50 years experience with CRTs of all types and I know what I am looking for and how to go about it. > > > >An LL of .07 ev (going by Case's experiments they could be less than 0.035 ev) > >at 2 Kev will sweep a radius of about 2.5 inches with a 1.0 gauus B field > >which is about twice the Earths 0.5 gauss B field. The electron optics of an > >electrostatic deflection scope (4 inch?)is totally wrong for this experiment. > > My objective was to avoid electrostatic deflection at all. That's why I > used x-y mode instead of t-y, so as to get a stationary spot. Not workable. Regards, Frederick > > > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 9 01:24:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA14872; Sun, 9 May 1999 01:23:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 01:23:50 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 23:37:11 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Experiment report re: light leptons on oscilloscope Resent-Message-ID: <"oLmcL.0.Ie3.LOKDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27230 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 5:06 PM 5/8/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: >Horace Heffner wrote: > >> At 2:37 PM 5/8/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: >> >Thanks Horace. You just walked past the haystack looking for the proverbial >> >needle. :-) >> > >> >What is the voltage on your scope? >> >> Don't know offhand. > >If you don't get the voltage up Before The Deflection Plates ( Mrel = >Mo[(eV/eVo)+1] most likelyif these exist, and are not stuck to the metal >or glass >parts (Electron Affinity 0.5 to 2.0 ev) they will go into the gun assembly >or the >deflection plates. Or they could be sticking to residual atoms/molecules >in the CRT >which might explain the mysterious "Negative Ions" and the Negative Ion >Burn spot >on the center of the tube that has plagued CRT designs since day one. This >is why a >bent gun and/or an ion trap is used. All the above applies similarly to a TV tube. There is a potential gradient in the tube due to the surroundings and tube geometry, and the walls of the glass vacuum envelope are probably charged. > >If this experiment is Carefully Controlled and the Electron Spot is Masked over >with tape, In a darkened room one might see a few scintillations from >these in a >matter of hours. If they are so sparse they do not seem a likely candidate to account for CF reactions. > >> >What was the voltage on the deflection >> >plates wrt to the gun? >> >> Why is deflection plate voltage wrt to the gun important? The important >> thing is obtaining zero deflection voltage, right? The beam was centered, >> so deflection voltage should be about zero. > >If you are dealing with particles millionths of the mass of an electron and >millions of times larger, the deflection plates floating at some potential >wrt the >gun is a problem. The neck of a TV tube will float at some potential too. > >> What I didn't do is establish a null magnetic environment. However, I was >> able to rotate the magnetic field through the zero point and no second spot >> showed up, so that should be sufficient? > >Can't be done unless you exclude the Earth's B field also. The geomagnetic and local fields superposition. By moving through zero on various axes all small values for net field intensity are obtained. >What I posted was a >question relating to MODIFICATION OF THE VERTICAL & HORIZONTAL CIRCUITS >Of A TV >TUBE so that the 21+ inch tubes on an existing chassis would give some >leeway in a >CAREFUL experiment. >I have over 50 years experience with CRTs of all types and I >know what I am looking for and how to go about it. How are you going to tell a few stray flickers from cosmic rays or stray electrons? > >> > >> >An LL of .07 ev (going by Case's experiments they could be less than >>0.035 ev) >> >at 2 Kev will sweep a radius of about 2.5 inches with a 1.0 gauus B field >> >which is about twice the Earths 0.5 gauss B field. The electron optics >>of an >> >electrostatic deflection scope (4 inch?)is totally wrong for this >>experiment. I suppose the deflection plates could be tied to the gun, but I am not too eager to take a chance on messing up the scope for a non-definitive test. I still think the large tunneling distance is the best discriminator of light leptons. A wide slit or wide spaced diffraction grating might work also if enough hits could be tallied to get an interference pattern. >> >> My objective was to avoid electrostatic deflection at all. That's why I >> used x-y mode instead of t-y, so as to get a stationary spot. > >Not workable. If that is the case, a TV should then also be marginal at best. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 9 03:12:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA27552; Sun, 9 May 1999 03:12:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 03:12:08 -0700 Message-ID: <37355E8A.A686C05C earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 04:08:11 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Experiment report re: light leptons on oscilloscope References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ewSsQ3.0.Qk6.uzLDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27231 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > At 5:06 PM 5/8/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: > > > >If you don't get the voltage up Before The Deflection Plates ( Mrel = > >Mo[(eV/eVo)+1] most likelyif these exist, and are not stuck to the metal > >or glass > >parts (Electron Affinity 0.5 to 2.0 ev) they will go into the gun assembly > >or the > >deflection plates. Or they could be sticking to residual atoms/molecules > >in the CRT > >which might explain the mysterious "Negative Ions" and the Negative Ion > >Burn spot > >on the center of the tube that has plagued CRT designs since day one. This > >is why a > >bent gun and/or an ion trap is used. > > All the above applies similarly to a TV tube. There is a potential > gradient in the tube due to the surroundings and tube geometry, and the > walls of the glass vacuum envelope are probably charged. True, but a 21 to 25 inch TV tube has a lot more surface area of phosphor and a lot less gradient at higher voltages.> > >If this experiment is Carefully Controlled and the Electron Spot is Masked over > >with tape, In a darkened room one might see a few scintillations from > >these in a > >matter of hours. > > If they are so sparse they do not seem a likely candidate to account for CF > reactions. The air that came out of those tubes contained about 500 small ions/cm^3 (in 2.69E19 molecules/cm^3) so when you evacuate the tube to 10E-6 Torr or so, there are not many of these small ions (electrons or LLs sticking to atoms/molecules?) left, but there could be many sticking to the tube parts and surfaces. A Light Lepton acting as a "Catalyst" doesn't need to be available in large numbers to effect CF phenomena. Millikan measured the charge on whatever is sticking to oil drops (electrons or Solar Neutrinos-LLs?) without having to bother explaining Jovian Thunderbolts. The Oil he used probably had a breakdown strength of a thousand volts/mil and yet here were "free electrons" made available merely by atomizing the oil? :-) yet he could "photo detach them with soft x-rays. > > > >If you are dealing with particles millionths of the mass of an electron and > >millions of times larger, the deflection plates floating at some potential > >wrt the > >gun is a problem. > > > > >Can't be done unless you exclude the Earth's B field also. > > The geomagnetic and local fields superposition. By moving through zero on > various axes all small values for net field intensity are obtained. > > >What I posted was a > >question relating to MODIFICATION OF THE VERTICAL & HORIZONTAL CIRCUITS > >Of A TV > >TUBE so that the 21+ inch tubes on an existing chassis would give some > >leeway in a > >CAREFUL experiment. > . > > > How are you going to tell a few stray flickers from cosmic rays or stray > electrons? One problem at a time, Horace. If you want set on your butt and explain away the workings of nature based on your bottomless cess-pool of knowledge Y2K will be the start of the new "Stone Age". :-) > If that is the case, a TV should then also be marginal at best. Beats staring at the ceiling counting fly specks. :-) Regards, Frederick > > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 9 05:37:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA07358; Sun, 9 May 1999 05:36:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 05:36:20 -0700 Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 08:40:15 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex , John Schnurer Subject: Re Send ....Energy (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PzmrQ2.0.qo1.45ODt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27232 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., How about some vortex and energy stuff and writing? OK? Don't get me wrong.... but I like real experiments and energy. UUU FFF OOOO !!!! Please post hardware designs of "UFO Detectors". To "get the ball rolling" I will start out with one of many many types. Will anyone who knows the originator of this idea please ask if he will E mail me off line. Thanks.... Detector No claims are made for this detector type, but the idea is nice. 1] An electric field sensor is set up to monitor 60 cps, or 50 cps in Europe. The sensor is set up to monitor the field of an electric power transmission line. NOTE: Some people think "visitors" either DO [!] or will come near electric power lines and DO [!] or can or might alter the magnitude of the field surrounding the power transmission line. 2] The output of the sensor is rectified and filtered to yield a signal proportional to the electric field near the electric power line. The "antenna" length and type are up to the investigator and the gain is an arbitrary value. ________________________ WARNING DANGER ______________________________ CAUTION Potentially lethal voltages on power lines!! Electric power lines are dangerous. An investigator does not need to be any closer than about 50 yards from a line directly below the power line to be monitored. LIGHTNING CAN BE A VERY REAL HAZARD. CONSULT QUALIFIED SAFETY PERSON WHO CAN USUALLY BE FOUND THROUGH FIRE DEPARTMENT, POWER COMPANY, HAM RADIO OPERATORS, ANTENNA INSTALLERS, TELEPHONE COMPANY INSTALLERS _____________________________________________________________________ Electric power line noise is quite a nice easy signal. "One person's noise can be another person's signal" !! :) SO: DO NOT GET ANYWHERE NEAR THE POWER LINE ..... WE NEED YOU TO REPORT THE SIGNAL, NOT READ A REPORT ABOUT AN INCAUTIOUS INVESTIGATOR !! ____________________________________________________________________ 3] MONITOR THE SIGNAL AND LET US ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENS. Should anyone want a custom or more sophisticated sensor or sensors, please contact me off line. John Schnurer PS: Let's find one. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 9 08:03:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA29584; Sun, 9 May 1999 08:02:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 08:02:31 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 06:15:55 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Experiment report re: light leptons on oscilloscope (fwd) Resent-Message-ID: <"U-Vx4.0.AE7.6EQDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27233 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 8:35 AM 5/9/99, John Schnurer wrote: > Dear H., > > I seem to have been 'de subscribed' for a while.... what is the >experiment, below, about? It's about Fred's interest in using a TV to detect light leptons, but more specifically about his following questions: At 7:54 AM 5/8/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: >Now the question. Can you disconnect the output of the Horizontal >Oscillator and still excite the High Voltage output from the flyback >transformer? And what can be done to the Vertical Oscillator out put to >compensate for disconnecting the Vertical Deflection coils? It might be >fun to leave them connected. :-) > >Next: the filament voltage can be lowered to cut down on Regular >electron emission. etc. and Ion traps should be removed (If they still >use them). > >All ideas appreciated, (if the price is right) :-) Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 9 10:31:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA26255; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:28:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 10:28:31 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <20bf0350.24671f8f aol.com> Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 13:27:43 EDT Subject: Re: Videotape: Cold Fusion: Fire from Water To: vortex-L eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"Tb_Mb2.0.5Q6.-MSDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27234 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is there anything in the video about Mills or Thermacore or BLP, or any other light water or hydrogen work, or deuterium work (like Notoya's) using a Mills-type cell? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 9 11:28:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA08987; Sun, 9 May 1999 11:27:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 11:27:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3735D291.EB0B0637 earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 12:23:14 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Molecular Collisions and Light Lepton-DiNeutron Production? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nAo3p3.0.LC2.4ETDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27235 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex Intuitively a Deuterium-Potassium Gas pressure of 7.6 to 76 Torr at 500 Deg K would give the Potassium Vapor-Deuterium molecular collisions more "elbow room" to collide and form the Neutral Electron-Neutrino-AntiNeutrino-Deuteron entity, The short-lived DiNeutron (apparently catalyzed by the Potassium Atoms). Then when this "particle" interacts with the other Deuteron in the D2 Molecule it can react: Deuteron-Electron-Neutrino-AntiNeutrino + D ----> He4 + e- + Neutrino-AntiNeutrino + 23 Mev Heat sans Neutrons or Gammas. One can speculate that the Resonance Energy Necessary to form the Entity is predicated by the molecular collisions at around 0.4 ev which should come out of a collision of D2 molecules at around 500 K (about 0.043 ev). When formed "in situ" the Neutrino-AntiNeutrinos along with the Electron,"Shrink" to form the Neutral "Dineutron". Neutron and/or Tritium emission pathways are also possible. This may or may not, be enhanced in a Pd or Carbon (Activated Charcoal) Lattice. Once ejected during the reaction the Large Neutrinos and AntiNeutrinos can dissipate their energy within fractions of Microns travel distance in the medium. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 9 13:04:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA04335; Sun, 9 May 1999 13:03:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 13:03:33 -0700 Message-ID: <000001be9a56$e41fb220$0c59ccd1 default> From: "Mike Carrell" To: Subject: Re: Videotape: Cold Fusion: Fire from Water Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 14:55:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"gO0nF.0.f31.KeUDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27236 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Stolper wrote, re: Fire from Water videotape: >Is there anything in the video about Mills or Thermacore or BLP, or any other >light water or hydrogen work, or deuterium work (like Notoya's) using a >Mills-type cell? There are brief excerpts from the program "Too Close to the Sun", produced in Canada but never aired in the US. They show Mills at his desk and shots inside Thermacore, with engineers discussing the OU yield of these light water cells. That material is several years old. The narration provides a separation between Mills and CF, but following commentary by (I think Bush) links Mills to CF; I think this is also old material, before Mills set forth explicit statements about the orbital collapse scenario. Gene could clarify this; he edited the tape. Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 9 20:29:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA09382; Sun, 9 May 1999 20:27:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 20:27:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199905100326.XAA19875 mercury.mv.net> Subject: Re: Videotape: Cold Fusion: Fire from Water Date: Sun, 9 May 99 23:26:31 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"TdUfz1.0.WI2.v8bDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27237 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Is there anything in the video about Mills or Thermacore or BLP, or any >other >light water or hydrogen work, or deuterium work (like Notoya's) using a >Mills-type cell? > >Tom Stolper Tom, Mills appears in the video as does Shaubach of Thermacore. We also mentioned briefly the hydrino hydride development of 1999. Gene From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 9 20:39:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA13669; Sun, 9 May 1999 20:38:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 20:38:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990509233546.00689924 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 23:35:46 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: News from Mizuno Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Y1zAW1.0.RL3.yIbDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27238 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tadahiko Mizuno called me today with continued good news about the Ohmori plasma electrolysis experiments. He is now using flow calorimetry, and he continues to see considerable excess heat. Input is typically ~100 watts and output is ~250 watts, and it continues for days. This experiment only works at high temperatures, above 80 deg C. This make it a good candidate for high energy technology, as opposed to low energy applications like space heating. Three attempts were made in the U.S. and Canada to replicate this experiment, including ours, but all three failed to produce excess heat. Mizuno thinks the temperature near the cathode and the materials may explain these failures, although it is difficult for him to diagnose other people's experiments by long distance, just as it is difficult for us to replicate him without first-hand knowledge. This has been the main problem with cold fusion from day one: people do not fully grasp what other people are doing. In solid state physics or catalysis a tiny error or an undetected difference in materials can wreck an experiment. Experts in these fields, who know nothing about CF per se, have often told me, "there are thousand ways to make it fail and only one way to make it work." Some of Mizuno's own cells failed to produce heat and his excess heat levels still vary, but he thinks he has now achieved better control. Our suspicions about his calorimetry -- possible artifacts with foam, heat retention and so on -- are no longer an issue because he is using flow calorimetry. There might be a new problem with the flow calorimetry, but at these power levels I think that is unlikely. Mizuno is writing papers about this in Japanese. He will send me the Japanese manuscripts, sample data, and information about the calorimeter including flow rates type of temperature sensor and so on, and I will prepare an English version. We plan to do a great deal more. Mizuno and I agree that this experiment deserves a "manual" (as he put it) and demonstration kits. Sometime during summer vacation at Hokkaido U., July and August, I plan to go to the lab and spend a week or two learning everything I can about the experiment. I will write it down in as much detail as I can muster for the magazine. I hope to produce a report as detailed as the Storms paper "How to Produce the Pons-Fleischmann Effect," which I regard as a model of expository writing and required reading in this field. I would not know enough chemistry and electrochemistry to do this on my own, but I can translate into English and organize the material. (I translated the technical papers and wrote the glossary in the Mizuno book.) I will pack one or two cells complete with materials, reagents and whatnot into my suitcase and bring them to our lab in Bow, New Hampshire for an independent test. We want to put an end to guesswork and Simon Says replications. A couple of Japanese corporations have sent researchers to visit Mizuno and Ohmori recently. They insist on doing the replication the hard way, on their own, starting from scratch instead of borrowing materials or bringing instruments into the lab, so it will take them a long time to develop the know-how. Mizuno and I agree they are making life difficult for themselves. In the last few months other mainstream cold fusion scientists have at last agreed to open up their research, write detailed manuals, and work towards demonstration kits. We are working hard to bring these efforts to fruition by August. Many people are eagerly waiting for a chance to test these cells out in their own labs, and I will be thrilled to give them an opportunity to do so. The first 3 or 4 demo kits out of the gate will have a chance of success; other systems which are held back will quickly be marginalized, made obsolete, and then forgotten. In the early, formative period of a technology, people with superior ideas sometimes fail to compete, and mediocre products become the standard. The IBM PC is a classic example. The hardware and software were obsolescent when the machine was introduced. Operating systems like Data General RDOS and USCD Pascal were miles ahead of MS-DOS, and if they had been marketed quickly and aggressively, Microsoft would have been blown out of the water. If CF kits work reasonably well, they will ignite a revolution and make their inventors multimillionaires at least. They will end the cold fusion controversy in a few months. This should have been done years ago, and it is largely the cold fusion scientist's fault that it was not. Their obsessive secrecy has not accomplished what they hoped. They have made little progress; they have not received patents or industry support; they are nowhere near to making practical devices; they have no significant head start over others. After years of wretched failure, you would think these people would learn from experience, read about elementary business and marketing, and try a conventional business strategy, but they never do. One of them told me recently he has no money and no prospect of getting any. He has zero credibility and after years of work he is on the verge of giving up. I offered $6,000 immediately for a demonstration kit, and hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of dollars more within months if he will file for a patent and license us to sell kits. He thought about it for a few weeks and then he told me no, that would be too risky. Someone might steal his ideas. Too risky!?! No strategy could be more risky than the one he is pursuing. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 9 21:23:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA30112; Sun, 9 May 1999 21:22:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 21:22:49 -0700 Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 21:23:30 -0700 From: Lynn Kurtz Subject: Re: News from Mizuno In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19990509233546.00689924 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: kurtz imap2.asu.edu (Unverified) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: <199905100423.VAA04519 smtp2.asu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"SQVcF2.0.QM7.PybDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27239 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:35 PM 5/9/99 -0400, you wrote: > The IBM PC is a classic example. The >hardware and software were obsolescent when the machine was introduced. >Operating systems like Data General RDOS and USCD Pascal were miles ahead >of MS-DOS, and if they had been marketed quickly and aggressively, >Microsoft would have been blown out of the water. > UCSD Pascal was even implemented in hardware ( the Pascal Microengine). What killed all versions of UCSD Pascal was the release of Borland's Turbo Pascal for under $100, which was indeed priced and marketed aggressively at the time. --Lynn From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 00:05:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA25893; Mon, 10 May 1999 00:04:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 00:04:31 -0700 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 03:03:49 -0400 From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com> Subject: Re: News from Mizuno Sender: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com> To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Message-ID: <199905100304_MC2-751C-2A8B compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA25877 Resent-Message-ID: <"A5q_L1.0.VK6.-JeDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27240 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed said: >> I will pack one or two cells complete with materials, reagents and whatnot into my suitcase and bring them to our lab in Bow, New Hampshire for an independent test. << Well done! Please keep back samples of EACH set of materials for analysis, just in case some sets works and others fail. At least you will be able to analyse in detail the separate sets - not like the Patterson balls-up (to coin a phrase. Good luck! Norman Horwood From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 03:37:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA21450; Mon, 10 May 1999 03:36:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 03:36:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 11:36:01 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi exeter To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: flux linkage and energy Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3lXSM.0.2F5.QQhDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27241 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear All, I have a question regarding flux linkage and energy. I kind of know the answer for one scenario where it makes physical sense, but the other seems absurd to me. Imagine I have some independent flux linking many short circuited low resistance coils, don't worry about how the flux go there at this stage. We have a flux and we can calculate the field energy. Now the flux collapses by some mechanism. Each coil (and there are many!) sees the same flux collapse, so generates the same amount of electrical energy. If we have J joules of field energy linking N coils, we get NJ joules electrical power. The above I can believe if the flux exists temporarily - say from a cooled ferromagnet rising above its Curie point. To me, any flux change would induce a current in the coils to prevent that flux change; the dipoles would have a harder job randomising back to zero net magnetisation. In effect, the heat capacity of the sample has been increased. I can believe that this would be overunity. Now what I find difficult is if the mechansim of the flux collapse is not by heat, say some metastable state as the system momentarily sat in a higher energy level. Where does the energy come from, what is the mechanism? Remi. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 04:48:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA01439; Mon, 10 May 1999 04:47:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 04:47:32 -0700 Message-ID: <3736C669.2C1FDB36 earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 05:43:38 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: H2K: Potassium Vapor Pressure Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JKZqG3.0.LM.KTiDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27242 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For your info, Vince, The vapor pressure of melted Potassium (M.P. = 336.35 K) is published as follows: T in degrees Kelvin Log p (Pascals) = 5.006 + A + B*T^-1 Log p (Atm) = A + B*T-1 A = 4.402 B = - 4453 Pascals* 7.50062E-3 = Torr At 500 K I get 3.133 Pascals = 2.3499E-3 Torr, say 24 millitorr. >From this, you shouldn't use up much Potassium. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 05:03:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA04857; Mon, 10 May 1999 05:03:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 05:03:15 -0700 From: "Ed Wall" To: Subject: RE: News from Mizuno Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:04:03 -0400 Message-ID: <000201be9add$327aa160$2c0a16cf computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19990509233546.00689924 pop.mindspring.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ptj6n2.0.pB1.2iiDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27243 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed, > Three attempts were made in the U.S. and Canada to replicate this > experiment, including ours, but all three failed to produce excess heat. > Mizuno thinks the temperature near the cathode and the materials may > explain these failures, although it is difficult for him to diagnose other > people's experiments by long distance, just as it is difficult for us to > replicate him without first-hand knowledge. Tadayoshi Ohmori wrote in his brief article on p. 20 of IE #24 regarding the high voltage tungsten cathode experiment that the cell is very simple, but contamination is a major issue. I don't know about Earthtech's efforts, but NERL's would not be well described as "clean." It would certainly be premature to base any conclusions based on work done here. I can remember wondering about this when we were preparing the tungsten cathodes > There might be a new problem with the flow > calorimetry, but at > these power levels I think that is unlikely. > It would seem unlikely, if the o/u ratio is consistent. > Mizuno is writing papers about this in Japanese. He will send me the > Japanese manuscripts, sample data, and information about the calorimeter > including flow rates type of temperature sensor and so on, and I will > prepare an English version. We plan to do a great deal more. Mizuno and I > agree that this experiment deserves a "manual" (as he put it) and > demonstration kits. Sometime during summer vacation at Hokkaido U., July > and August, I plan to go to the lab and spend a week or two learning > everything I can about the experiment. I will write it down in as much > detail as I can muster for the magazine. I hope to produce a report as > detailed as the Storms paper "How to Produce the Pons-Fleischmann Effect," > which I regard as a model of expository writing and required reading in > this field. I would not know enough chemistry and electrochemistry to do > this on my own, but I can translate into English and organize the > material. This is great news, Jed! Please bring a video camera. > Of course, I agree that proliferation of reliable demonstration kits is essential to the vitality of this field. People like me have to be able to see some success. I would like to be able to repeat the experiment with the same exact materials and method. BTW, is the flow calorimeter circulating the electrolyte solution or just circulating water, such as through a tempering breaker? Ed Wall New Energy Research Laboratory Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Bow, NH 03302-2816 (603) 226-4822 fax 224-5975 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 05:29:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA09694; Mon, 10 May 1999 05:28:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 05:28:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3736D004.AF9031B7 earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 06:24:37 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: H2/D2-Potassium Reactor Tubes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eYgBi2.0.KN2.p3jDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27244 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex Ancillary to Vince's work, 304 or 316 Stainless tubes about a centimeter I.D. x 20 cm long can be filled with a few cm^3 or less, of Potassium, evacuated to the millitorr range and filled with H2 or D2 to a few Torr and sealed or valved off. Several of these can be heated in an oil bath (vacuum diffusion pump oil or such) with a cartridge heater or a flame to a few hundred degrees K. The potassium vapor pressure: Log p (Pascals) = 5.006 + 4.402 + - 4453*T^-1 should be about 25 millitorr at 500 deg K. With some tricky calorimetry one should see if there is any exotherm heat generated in the tubes. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 05:32:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA10871; Mon, 10 May 1999 05:31:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 05:31:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:31:47 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi exeter To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: flux linkage and energy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PqVCv2.0.nf2.-6jDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27245 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All, I am very confused here because I ought to be able to make one big equivalent coil and that would see the J joules of field energy. The inductance would stay the same if we put them in parallel on the same former but the resistance would lower. All of this is odd because on step 2-3 of the cycle I posted a few weeks ago, the excitor coil sees zero net flux change and does zero electrical work. The power coils are switched in at the right moment in the cycle when no current exists in the excitor coil (or primary) and the flux falls due to the sample rising in temperature. The excitor sees the J joules or energy come back, the power coil sees the same flux change too and should get J joules. The other argument says gang them into one parallel coil - there is only one coil and it sees the flux change and generates j joules of energy dissapated in the effective impedance (the impedance of the two coil circuits alone put in parallel). If the p.d. of the induced current is partitioned between the two resistances in proportion to their (G1/(G1 + G2), G2/(G1 + G2) ) how can the primary, excitor ever experience the full flux change and hence 'return to xero'. Remi. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 06:14:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA24299; Mon, 10 May 1999 06:13:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 06:13:15 -0700 Message-ID: <3736DAB9.C19E9803 earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 07:10:18 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Exergy Incorporated - heat exchangers, shell and tube, cold plates, miniature heat exchanger, heat transfer, sanitary fittings Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2641B271BDBEA056B96EC128" Resent-Message-ID: <"NpOyb.0.bx5.gjjDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27246 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2641B271BDBEA056B96EC128 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.exergyinc.com/54series.html A little Potassium and H2 or D2 in the tubes and your ready to Commercialize! :-) FJS --------------2641B271BDBEA056B96EC128 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1; name="54series.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="54series.html" Content-Base: "http://www.exergyinc.com/54series.html" Exergy Incorporated - heat exchangers, shell and tube, cold plates, miniature heat exchanger, heat transfer, sanitary fittings

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Shell and Tube 54 Series

54 Series heat exchanger Typical Pressure Loss for Water
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The 54 Series is our largest standard shell and tube heat exchanger.

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--------------2641B271BDBEA056B96EC128-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 06:25:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA28129; Mon, 10 May 1999 06:25:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 06:25:06 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990510082630.00a33474 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:26:30 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: News from Mizuno In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990509233546.00689924 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-d5hu1.0.Rt6.oujDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27247 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 23:35 5/9/99 -0400, Jed Rothwell wrote: >If CF kits work reasonably well....They will end the cold fusion >controversy in a few months. This should have been done years ago, and it >is largely the cold fusion scientist's fault that it was not. Their >obsessive secrecy has not accomplished what they hoped. Well stated. I agree that it seems unlikely that a 100 watt heat output could be mistakenly interpreted as ~250 watts...but nevertheless the possibility is very real. I would like to offer for discussion (it needs to be discussed at this end, too!) a slight modification to your excellent promotional plan, Jed: I would accompany you to Japan this summer with my portable water-flow calorimeter. Using the same equipment that showed a perfect power balance on my own incandescent W cell, I would measure the power balance on Mizuno's own cell, while Mizuno himself operates it. If this on-site test produces positive results you could plow ahead without reservation with the rest of your plan...with a free testimonial of positive results from EarthTech. If negative results were obtained...well, I could help Mizuno resolve the problems with his calorimetry...and you could save yourself a lot of money and trouble. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 06:28:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA29264; Mon, 10 May 1999 06:27:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 06:27:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3736DE12.A8D1829C earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 07:24:35 -0600 From: Frederick Sparber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Southern Heat Exchanger Corp. - shell and tube heat exchangers Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------98D775D9EE4991154BF6386C" Resent-Message-ID: <"42Wqs1.0.697.7xjDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27248 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------98D775D9EE4991154BF6386C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.souheat.com/ --------------98D775D9EE4991154BF6386C Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Base: "http://www.souheat.com/" Southern Heat Exchanger Corp. - shell and tube heat exchangers
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--------------98D775D9EE4991154BF6386C-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 08:10:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA25718; Mon, 10 May 1999 08:09:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:09:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990510110855.0079cb80 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 11:08:55 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: News from Mizuno Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"9qddB1.0.mH6.nQlDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27250 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I may go to Japan sooner, in June. It depends on how much Mizuno has already written in Japanese, and the workloads of Mizuno and Ed Wall, who do all the real work in this field. It will be July or August at the latest, when the campus is quiet. Norman Horwood writes: Please keep back samples of EACH set of materials for analysis, just in case some sets works and others fail. Well, sure we will, but this is not a one-shot deal. The materials are cheap and readily available. If the thing works, we will order materials for a hundred more cells, either in the U.S. or directly from the suppliers Mizuno deals with in Hokkaido. This time, we will not run out of supplies. At least you will be able to analyse in detail the separate sets - not like the Patterson balls-up (to coin a phrase. Yup. We will be able to analyze in detail, and so will you, and so will anyone else in the world who wants one, just as soon as I can make it happen. That's our plan. That has been our plan for many years, but so far the devices we have tested have either failed completely, or they have produced marginal, borderline results, or they have been extremely costly or difficult to use, like the Case cell and Griggs Hydrodynamic Pump. Ed Wall says: This is great news, Jed! Please bring a video camera. Ugh! Do I have to? I hate video cameras. Also, the proceedings will be in Japanese, which will not be enlightening to most American viewers. I usually use an audio tape recorder and the electronic camera. The electronic camera resolution is 1024 x 768, much better than a video camera. It does nice close-ups, too. Anyway, you will have the materials in front of you a week after I return. We will have to supply the pumps and thermocouples. BTW, is the flow calorimeter circulating the electrolyte solution or just circulating water, such as through a tempering breaker? I have no details on that yet, but I suppose it is the standard arrangement with circulating pure water. The electrolyte in this experiment is quickly filled with debris, and I suppose it would screw up a pump. The only reason to circulate electrolyte is to cool down something like a packed-bead CETI cathode, which will overheat and delaminate unless you force cooling water past the cathode components. Scott Little writes: I would accompany you to Japan this summer with my portable water-flow calorimeter. That would up to Mizuno & Ohmori. You'll have to discuss it with them directly. I should warn you though, our sessions will be intense and in Japanese only, because M&O do not speak English well and I am no good at interpreting. (I can translate written documents but I have no talent for simultaneous speech interpretation.) I think it would make more sense for you to go later, after we publish English documentation. Or you might purchase the materials from Japan or from us after we independently verify the heat. If negative results were obtained...well, I could help Mizuno resolve the problems with his calorimetry...and you could save yourself a lot of money and trouble. You would not save me any money or trouble because I would already be there -- with the air ticket paid for -- and we would go ahead with independent tests no matter what you find. I doubt you can teach anything about calorimetry to people like Mizuno, Ohmori and Akimoto. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 08:11:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA25696; Mon, 10 May 1999 08:09:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:09:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990510103329.007c7ba0 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 10:33:29 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Pascal flavors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"M3FQe1.0.QH6.mQlDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27249 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lynn Kurtz writes: UCSD Pascal was even implemented in hardware ( the Pascal Microengine). What killed all versions of UCSD Pascal was the release of Borland's Turbo Pascal for under $100, which was indeed priced and marketed aggressively at the time. I purchased both products. As I recall, UCSD Pascal was too slow and poorly marketed, and it died before Turbo was introduced. UCSD was more than a language, it was an operating system with superior file handling and options like fixed length contiguous files, which Window still needs and still lacks 20 years later. Turbo Pascal was indeed "marketed aggressively," plus it was a great product. It lives on in Borland Delphi 4, which I like a lot, but I wish they would document stuff like TOutline and the TGraph Active-X component. I am sick of trying to figure them out by guess and by golly! - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 08:31:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA02031; Mon, 10 May 1999 08:30:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:30:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:30:25 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi exeter To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: flux linkage and energy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"oA7TD1.0.fV.RklDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27251 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All, There is a problem here, I'll recant the cycle (also I've renumbered from the stuff I posted weeks ago to make it more logical) 1: At ambient just above curie point. 2: Switch on excitor coil field, sample rise in temp. 3: Let sample cool back to ambient with field still on. 4: Switch off current in excitor coil, sample cools and has magnetic moment. 5: Switch in power tap coil so flux from sample links two coils: excitor and power coil. Sample heats up, field collapses 6: back at start. The excitor coil can be electrically configured so that the back emf is recaptured - its like a 'tank' LC oscillator circuit. The net flux change is zero so it does zero electrical work (forget losses which are small, this is meant to be ou :) The power coil sees a net flux change and so generates power. There is no current in the excitor coil when the power coil is switched in, there is no transformer action. The flux is independent. How can X joules of field energy couple to two coils and generate 2X joules of electrical power? The circuit is linear, so I can make one equivalent coil with equivalent load. This coil sees X joules of energy BUT partioned between the excitor circuit load and the power coil load. The excitor doesn't come back round to zero (with forward emf canceling back emf) even though it should by the argument with two coils not one effective coil. May be there is some delayed transformer effect. Say I build a core with a soft material that takes months to demagnetise... Now I think someone posted something like this, it May have been Mike Carrell which was why I was asking for the list archive. If I can find the *reason* I can engineer around it, if possible. I'm in two minds: the second coil sees a flux change and the primary current is off, No, its a slow transformer. Remi. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 09:34:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA28689; Mon, 10 May 1999 09:33:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:33:11 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990510093129.00950980 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: Tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:32:56 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: meeting: SSE-18th at Albuquerque In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"G0mPC3.0.707.7fmDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27252 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill B sent the info below a while ago re AZ meeting of SSE. What are the next few CF meetings of consequence and where and when are they? rt At 02:01 PM 4/27/99 -0700, you wrote: > >http://www.scientificexploration.org/meetings/eighteenth.html > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 10:10:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA07151; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:08:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 10:08:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3737135F.CA0F6F2D bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:11:59 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Transmutation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hPO1v1.0.fl1.6AnDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27253 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: England is selling 60% of its gold reserves. Did Joe Champion get out of jail? ;^) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 10:50:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA23566; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:47:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 10:47:50 -0700 From: "Ed Wall" To: Subject: RE: News from Mizuno Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:48:42 -0400 Message-ID: <000e01be9b0d$57cd3920$2c0a16cf computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.19990510110855.0079cb80 pop.mindspring.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"Nrd6L1.0.4m5.6lnDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27254 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed, You wrote: > The > electronic camera resolution is 1024 x 768, much better than a video > camera. It does nice close-ups, too. Anyway, you will have the > materials in front of you a week after I return. We will have to supply the pumps and > thermocouples. > Pumps and thermocouples we got. Be sure to get a clear understanding of the contamination issue. It is possible to take 'clean'-ness to such an extreme that it is out of our reach. Next time you talk to him, ask if he works in a glove box, how he assembles the cathodes, any rinses or other preparations done before assembling the cell, etc. Ed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 11:09:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA01207; Mon, 10 May 1999 11:07:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 11:07:59 -0700 From: "Ed Wall" To: Subject: RE: Ed Wall's Calcium? Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 14:08:53 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01be9b10$299ba200$2c0a16cf computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.19990430143825.00798540 pop.mindspring.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"4eDqG3.0.nI.-1oDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27255 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The lab that is doing our analytical work had a problem with their ICP-MS last week and were unable to provide full results. I got partial results yesterday. It shows that our last effort proved inconclusive due to Ca concentration in the distilled water we had used for the electrolyte solution. I asked the lab for a good source of water and used what they suggested, which was not good. As far as the possibility that such contamination might account for the high Ca concentration in the positive run that was described in IE #24, we cannot be sure because that result was not planned for in the initial experiment setup (we do not have a Ca concentration figure for the distilled water that was used on that series of runs). If the concentration of the Ca in the distilled water used on the previous runs is anything like what was detected in the distilled water we used in the last series of runs (~4 mg/l), the figure of 229 mg/l that was found in our filtrate was not due to the water. The preliminary results from the last series of runs does not show the very high Ca concentration, but the cell was run at a lower voltage. At present, we are planning the next step. Ed Wall New Energy Research Laboratory Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Bow, NH 03302-2816 (603) 226-4822 fax 224-5975 > -----Original Message----- > From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell infinite-energy.com] > Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 2:38 PM > To: vortex-L eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Ed Wall's Calcium? > > > I would like to mention that we should hear more about this topic from Ed > himself next week. He is out of touch at the moment. > > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 12:07:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA26849; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:05:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 12:05:00 -0700 Message-ID: <37372D24.EEF774B5 earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:01:56 -0600 From: "Richard T. Murray" Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: News from Mizuno References: <3.0.1.32.19990509233546.00689924 pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DqfpB2.0.RZ6.StoDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27256 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 10, 1999 Hello Jed Rothwell, I am very pleased that you are instrumental in testing and replicating these amazing claims of excess energy in "simple" systems. As a layman, I suspect that the possible flaw in Mizuno's claim lies in measuring the input power, made very spikey by the intense bubbling. How can the input power be determined in an incontrovertible way? May I send your post on? I will meet a few of the cold fusion workers at the Society for Scientific Exploration conference June 2-6 in Albuquerque: I will maintain a low profile in public meetings, but of course answer any questions in face-to-face discussions. Regards, Rich Murray From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 13:35:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31856; Mon, 10 May 1999 13:34:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:34:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990510163418.007b0600 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:34:18 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: News from Mizuno Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Ny0zo2.0.gn7.HBqDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27257 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In my previous message NatSpeak said "That would up to Mizuno & Ohmori." I meant: "That would be up to M&O." It is hard to say what NatSpeak had in his little mind. (I notice it faithfully transcribes all nasty comments about itself, so the programmers have not endowed it with sentience or an ego yet.) Anyway, Ed Wall writes: Next time you talk to him, ask if he works in a glove box, how he assembles the cathodes, any rinses or other preparations done before assembling the cell, etc. Yeah, those are the kinds of details we need to nail down to avoid Simon Says experiments. I will outline the paper today and make a long list of questions and issues to cover during the trip. I hate traveling and I do not get much done at the customer site unless I plan meticulously before I leave. Rich Murray writes: I am very pleased that you are instrumental in testing and replicating these amazing claims of excess energy in "simple" systems. There's nothing simple about CF systems. Richard Oriani said that in is 50 year career in electrochemistry he has never seen anything as complicated as a cold fusion cell. The cathodes are physically small, which makes some people think they are simple, but that is absurd. An E. coli bacterium is microscopic, but it is more complex than New York City, and if scientists study E. coli for the next 10,000 years, they will end up with more open questions than answers. As a layman, I suspect that the possible flaw in Mizuno's claim lies in measuring the input power, made very spikey by the intense bubbling. I do not think there is the slightest chance of that, but we will check. It seems logically impossible, because the effect goes away when temperatures and materials are changed, and presumably the intensity of bubbling is about the same with all materials. How can the input power be determined in an incontrovertible way? With an oscilloscope, of course. How else? I trust you will be satisfied with a fast oscilloscope trace. Or if you are not satisfied with that, and you cannot suggest any other method, I trust you will conclude that no scientist anywhere can ever establish input power. May I send your post on? Kindly refrain from doing that. If I wanted the post elsewhere I would send it myself, or post it on our Web page. I see no point in eliciting comments from the Peanut Gallery at sci.physics.fusion (or "siphon effusion" as NatSpeak calls it). - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 15:44:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA26812; Mon, 10 May 1999 15:42:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 15:42:50 -0700 From: UNIR2B1NM aol.com Message-ID: <8639c3ca.2468b82e aol.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:31:10 EDT Subject: Columbine student interviewed: MORE GUNMEN To: UNIR2B1NM aol.com CC: 11111119 lava.net (DD), 3wishes@wishgranted.com (Vince Goetsch), aaa texas.net (Joe Portman Sr.), alienvisitor@onelist.com, AMINOR HACH.COM.Abel.Ken.ken@abelexpress.com (Alana Minor), antarah_rose hotmail.com (Antarah Rose), antigrav ihug.co.nz (John Berry), ark millennium-ark.net, atech ix.netcom.com (Dennis C. Lee), b25b@LCIA.COM, Beulah39 juno.com (Beulah), bill@basselectronics.com, bioen frii.com (Nancy O'Brien), biotron@pacbell.net, candace1@usa.net, celiag email.com, chief@sundial.net (michael romack), cwhite5 gl.umbc.edu (Carolyn), dawnames@hotmail.com, lkvp mail.awod.com, Design73@aol.com, DiMaDuBo@aol.com, donadams telusplanet.net (Don J. S. Adams), dpnichols iswt.com (David Nichols) (later:dpnichols apex.net), dtaylor sonyinteractive.com (David Taylor), dwenbert@spacey.net, elebra hotmail.com (Mattias), Eliria99@aol.com, ewall infinite-energy.com (Ed Wall), freenrg-l@eskimo.com, goldbug worldaccessnet.com, heatherti mindspring.com (Heather and Andrew Tinley), Henry.Scudder West.Boeing.com.Scudder, Henry.J@aol.com, herman antioch-college.edu (John Schnurer), homer abac.com (John H.St.John), housed indiana.edu (David House), intelife pop.globaldialog.com (JADE), InTheShadows@onelist.com, Jaldinshah aol.com, jdo@ucalgary.ca (Jorg D. Ostrowski), jkinsley beyond-the-illusion.com, johnhoffman@webtv.net, JohnHunter hotmail.com (John Hunter), julier maxwell.ucsc.edu (Julie Reiner), Kedo phnx.uswest.net (Kelly Larsen), kmohler@frii.com (Karen Mohler), lightspring jps.net (Thomas Spellman), manna blazenet.net (Terri Schoolden), marfabee worldnet.att.net (Martha), mark3@mindspring.com, markland rockisland.com, mccloud listservice.net (Webmaster-Terry/Mccloud), mconnolly grainsystems.com (Mike Connolly), mdoyenne dustdevil.com (Marsha Doyenne), mejane10 juno.com (Jane G. 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Abbott), Serwitz@aol.com, sharon nyct.net (Sharon), shekhina_shaman bigfoot.com (Shekhina Canyon), SHEREE_SCHMIDT hp-loveland-om2.om.hp.com (Sheree Schmidt), spot2 pdq.net (spot), survival@ballistic.com (Tom), TB4299@aol.com, tekcorman yahoo.com (ron kita), tenx7 bellatlantic.net (Henri Calitri), transnet mail.teleport.com (John Michaels), transnet teleport.com (Micheal), trknute@earthlink.net, UFOLAWYER1 aol.com, unexplained@listservice.net (unexplained), visited onelist.com (visited), vortex-l@eskimo.com, werosser hotmail.com, y2k-survival@infostream.net, Y2KNOW listbot.com (Y2K), zianet@interserv.com (David Openheimer) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"iAB6I3.0.nY6.g3sDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27258 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ...and because of this "incident", they're drafting legislation to ban ALL guns!?!?!?!... ----------------------------------------- From: "Hilary A. Thomas" John Quinn: The Rocky Mountain Horror Show http://www.cbjd.net/orbit/quinn/Quinn_Colorado.html Quinn Interviews Columbine student, more gunmen URGENT: I have conducted a telephone interview with Columbine High School student and witness Chris Wisher on 5/7/99. Among his remarks and comments, Mr. Wisher stated to me that he and companions are ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that AT LEAST THREE perpetrators were involved in the mayhem at the school. This was directly witnessed by them outside the school building. One of these was the person in a white T-shirt throwing bombs onto the school roof. Another was someone OTHER THAN Harris or Klebold, OUTSIDE, in a black trenchcoat with a shotgun. SIMULTANEOUSLY they heard shots coming from INSIDE THE SCHOOL!. Mr. Wisher also stated that he is personally acquainted with another witness who witnessed a GROUP OF 7-8 ASSAILANTS UPSTAIRS at Columbine, when Harris and Klebold were downstairs! Mr. Wisher further stated that he is personally acquainted with a witness who was blatantly coerced by Sheriff's Dept. investigators to CHANGE THEIR TESTIMONY REGARDING ADDITIONAL GUNMEN! Every time she stated that she saw more than three people they attempted to get her to CHANGE HER TESTIMONY! Mr. Wisher stated that many Columbine students, including himself, WILL NOT RETURN TO SCHOOL, because some of the murderers are RIGHT THERE, ATTENDING SCHOOL! Further details forthcoming. DON'T LET THE "AUTHORITIES" GET AWAY WITH THIS!!! -=> Discuss the illusions of reality.... -=> Illusions Mailing List - Illusions beyond-the-illusion.com -=> http://www.beyond-the-illusion.com/mailman/listinfo/illusions/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 18:01:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA10012; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:59:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:59:41 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: News from Mizuno Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:59:07 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <373c7e56.261570230 mail-hub> References: <3.0.6.32.19990510163418.007b0600 pop.mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990510163418.007b0600 pop.mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA09988 Resent-Message-ID: <"tglRS1.0.MS2.z3uDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27259 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 10 May 1999 16:34:18 -0400, Jed Rothwell wrote: [snip] > > > As a layman, I suspect that the possible flaw in Mizuno's claim > lies in measuring the input power, made very spikey by the > intense bubbling. > >I do not think there is the slightest chance of that, but we will check. It >seems logically impossible, because the effect goes away when temperatures >and materials are changed, and presumably the intensity of bubbling is >about the same with all materials. > > > How can the input power be determined in an incontrovertible > way? > >With an oscilloscope, of course. How else? I trust you will be satisfied >with a fast oscilloscope trace. Or if you are not satisfied with that, and >you cannot suggest any other method, I trust you will conclude that no >scientist anywhere can ever establish input power. [snip] Actually, given that the output is supposed to be 2.5 times the input, and most power supplies are better than 40% efficient, it ought to be possible to measure line power delivered, and the output should even exceed this. This method has the advantage that the power supply itself sits between input power measurement and usage, thus forming a filter against any spikes. I believe that the current at the cathode comprises hundreds of sparks per second, as the dielectric layer formed by steam around the cathode breaks down. This implies that the current is inherently spiked, and not just spiked due to bubble formation (or have I got the wrong experiment?). I also suspect that inherent inductance and built in capacitance result in a high frequency oscillating signal that is responsible for quenching sparks at the zero cross over. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 21:24:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA15148; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:23:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:23:01 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:21:45 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: H2 Calibration To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"kSlh6.0.ci3.b2xDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27260 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 05/08/1999 05:34:05 Pacific Daylight Time, hheffner mtaonline.net writes: > At 4:14 AM 5/8/99, VCockeram aol.com wrote: > > Looks like I have to scout for some good thermometers, > > plastic tubing, "T's", buckets and a small pump for the return line. > > I do have graduated beakers and assorted valves. > You already have a fairly good one? Your thermocouple thermometer? You > just don't want to waste the input on measuring the jacket temperature. > > I can send you some (free) teflon coated thermistors accurate to +- 0.02 C > relative, and they are good in the 0 C to 100 C range, if memory serves me. > If you epoxy them to the inlet and outlet and insulate around them, it > should work OK. Thanks for the offer Horace but I plan on using a Fluke dual thermocouple meter and mercury thermometers as a cross check. If you remember back when I started this I was using a thermistor but found it too difficult to use, which is why I went to the thermocouple meter. Calorimetry is a bit in the future as I want to see if there is a difference in heat out between H2 alone and H2K. > Scott Little uses similar thermocouples in his > calorimeter, but unfortunately mine are 100 K and his are 10 K, I think, so > if you wanted to use his data acquisition stuff directly some modification > to the software or hardware would be required. If you simply used an > ohmmeter, there is a formula that converts resistance to temperature that > can be used in a spreadsheet to calculate your values. > If the serial interface is hooked up on your Radio Shack meter, you could > convert to temperature by computer. Unfortunately the computer room is above the lab and the wife would not like me boring more holes in the floor for the cable run. > > Regards, > Horace Heffner > Getting the instrumentation working well is my current problem. The glow discharge is electrically very noisy and interferes with the instruments. I must have very stable instruments or the experiment is worthless. I found out Saturday that one of the two Hewlett Packard 15 volt power supplies that power the MKS 626A absolute pressure sensor was _one_ of the culprits, putting out a high freq oscillation that was causing unstable pressure measurements. I ordered two 15 volt linear power supplies from Harbach and Rademan today. They should arrive by Friday. I am considering enclosing the glow discharge tube stand and HV power supply in a Faraday Cage. This, I hope, will effectively isolate the noise from the instrumentation. I also have an EMI filter that will be used on the input to the HV power supply to prevent electrical noise from feeding back into the input power line (and the instrumentation power supplies). This is all very frustrating in a way. I get some really splendid instruments and find I have to just about redesign the entire setup but I know it will be well worth the time spent. I am not comfortable with any result when I am not absolutely sure the meters are perfect, so I'll spend the time to get it right. Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 10 23:30:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA14362; Mon, 10 May 1999 23:29:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 23:29:39 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: test Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 06:29:04 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3742ce1f.282000998 mail-hub> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA14346 Resent-Message-ID: <"HDh9X1.0.KW3.IvyDt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27261 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 03:24:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA27979; Tue, 11 May 1999 03:18:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 03:18:25 -0700 From: aki ix.netcom.com Message-ID: <37380491.42D ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 03:21:05 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: F&P French exact replication Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m7F4H1.0.1r6.mF0Et" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27262 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 11, 1999 Vortex, Some time back (years), it was reported that the French exactly replicated the F&P experiment and was successful. Now, does somebody have more information on this? What laboratory? What published papers? What website if any? What scientists did the replication? In other woreds, the five W's and an 'H'. In a side article in Science Friday's website, it made a point (by Cornell U.'s study project) that hardly anybody does an 'exact' replication experiment but each (science experimentalist) puts in their own little twist into the effort, thus possibly contributing to the success or failure of the 'replication' effort. Hummm? -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 05:03:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA12229; Tue, 11 May 1999 05:02:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 05:02:08 -0700 Message-ID: <37381CA8.4393DAC6 mccir3.crmc2.univ-mrs.fr> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:03:52 +0200 From: Jean-Paul Biberian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: F&P French exact replication References: <37380491.42D ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e0hSd.0._-2.0n1Et" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27263 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vortex Lonchampt and myself made the boiling to dry experiment of Pons and Fleischmann, using either their cell, or exact copies. The results were given at ICCF in Japan. However our results were not as large as the ones claimed by P&F. Since then we have refocused on continuously boiling experiments where calorimetry is easier to perform. Experiments are in progress, and we will give the preliminary results soon. Jean-Paul Biberian aki ix.netcom.com wrote: > May 11, 1999 > > Vortex, > > Some time back (years), it was reported that the French exactly > replicated the F&P experiment and was successful. > Now, does somebody have more information on this? What laboratory? What > published papers? What website if any? What scientists did the > replication? In other woreds, the five W's and an 'H'. > In a side article in Science Friday's website, it made a point (by > Cornell U.'s study project) that hardly anybody does an 'exact' > replication experiment but each (science experimentalist) puts in their > own little twist into the effort, thus possibly contributing to the > success or failure of the 'replication' effort. Hummm? > > -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 06:43:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02594; Tue, 11 May 1999 06:42:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 06:42:37 -0700 Message-ID: <001f01be9bb3$b416d8c0$288f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Cc: , Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 07:37:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"cjrzK2.0.Oe.CF3Et" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27264 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex As absurd as it may sound, pressurizing Common/Ordinary Bricks with Air to about 300 Psi, then soaking them in H2O or D2O-K2CO3 under hydraulic pressure followed by either microwaving them or running a current through them (possibly using a capacitor bank) might show OU Effects. The 23% (approximately) Void Volume and the Micron to Nanometer pore size, and the presence of the alkali ions could yield some interesting results. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 07:16:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA13085; Tue, 11 May 1999 07:14:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 07:14:58 -0700 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 10:18:41 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer Reply-To: John Schnurer To: "Richard T. Murray" , Vortex Subject: Input power....Re: News from Mizuno In-Reply-To: <37372D24.EEF774B5 earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tK_9H1.0.NC3.Yj3Et" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27265 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Richard and vo., If the input power in question is electrical.... and-or... if the power is, say, mixing or heat and is powered electrically THEN: It is a straightforward task to measure the electrical power. It does not take the entire crew from NBS... but it DOES require care and the appropriate instrumentation. J On Mon, 10 May 1999, Richard T. Murray wrote: > May 10, 1999 Hello Jed Rothwell, I am very pleased that you are > instrumental in testing and replicating these amazing claims of excess > energy in "simple" systems. As a layman, I suspect that the possible > flaw in Mizuno's claim lies in measuring the input power, made very > spikey by the intense bubbling. How can the input power be determined > in an incontrovertible way? May I send your post on? I will meet a > few of the cold fusion workers at the Society for Scientific Exploration > conference June 2-6 in Albuquerque: I will maintain a low profile in > public meetings, but of course answer any questions in face-to-face > discussions. > > Regards, Rich Murray > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 07:58:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA29033; Tue, 11 May 1999 07:57:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 07:57:53 -0700 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:01:40 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: Claytor lanl.gov, Ron.Brodzinski@pnl.gov Subject: Experiments.....Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks In-Reply-To: <001f01be9bb3$b416d8c0$288f85ce default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"r7J652.0.Z57.mL4Et" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27266 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Fredrick, I notice you speak of many experiments. Do you do any? Have you done any? Do you have a background in experimental sciences? I say because I do. I agree with Richard Feynman that the final proofs are the experiments. Are you near a college? Do you know any teachers or students? Do you have a desire to actually see stuff work, yourself? John On Tue, 11 May 1999, Frederick Sparber wrote: > To: Vortex > > As absurd as it may sound, pressurizing Common/Ordinary Bricks with Air to > about 300 Psi, then soaking them in H2O or D2O-K2CO3 under hydraulic > pressure followed by either microwaving them or running a current through > them (possibly using a capacitor bank) might show OU Effects. > > The 23% (approximately) Void Volume and the Micron to Nanometer pore size, > and the presence of the alkali ions could yield some interesting results. > > Regards, Frederick > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 09:36:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA27944; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:34:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 09:34:47 -0700 Message-ID: <000601be9bcb$bb4b6760$a7b4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Cc: , References: Subject: Re: Experiments.....Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 10:31:26 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"TooPX3.0.Vq6.cm5Et" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27267 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: John Schnurer To: Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 9:01 AM Subject: Experiments.....Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks > > > Dear Fredrick, > > I notice you speak of many experiments. YEP! Do you do any? YEP Have you > done any? YEP Do you have a background in experimental sciences? MORE THAN YOU WILL EVER HAVE, JOHN. > > I say because I do. At what LEVEL? I agree with Richard Feynman that the final > proofs are the experiments. I tend to look for POSITIVE RESULTS. :-). But you might take some courses at Antiock , rather than learning by induction. :-) > Are you near a college? YEP Do you know any teachers or students? YEP Do > you have a desire to actually see stuff work, yourself? OF COURSE NOT! :-) If you do the proposed Hot Bricks experiment, John, BE CAREFUL or Leave a WILL for your NEXT OF KILN. :-) Regards, Frederick > > John > > > > > On Tue, 11 May 1999, Frederick Sparber wrote: > > > To: Vortex > > > > As absurd as it may sound, pressurizing Common/Ordinary Bricks with Air to > > about 300 Psi, then soaking them in H2O or D2O-K2CO3 under hydraulic > > pressure followed by either microwaving them or running a current through > > them (possibly using a capacitor bank) might show OU Effects. > > > > The 23% (approximately) Void Volume and the Micron to Nanometer pore size, > > and the presence of the alkali ions could yield some interesting results. > > > > Regards, Frederick > > > > > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 11:04:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA28699; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:02:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:02:36 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <338060dc.2469ca21 aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:00:01 EDT Subject: Re: Videotape: Cold Fusion: Fire from Water To: vortex-L eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"1xj2e2.0.I07.x27Et" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27268 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mike, Mills set forth the scenario of catalytic orbital collapse to hydrinos from the time he first surfaced at the end of April 1991. That's also in his first published article (FUSION TECHNOLOGY, vol. 20, August 1991 issue, pp. 65-81). Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 12:36:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA23527; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:35:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:35:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:35:45 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi exeter To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: flux linkage and energy (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"vTz1v.0.Sl5.MQ8Et" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27269 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:34:25 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO To: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: flux linkage and energy Dave, At the moment we have strong theory, though not strong enough to present to an academic, maybe. I'm having conceptual problems with this idea of an independant flux linking several coils:- Forget the source of the flux for a mo, if it has a field energy, N coils will generate N times this energy on flux collapse. I think the solution is not talk about the field divorced from its source (counter to what I said about forgetting the source). We ACCEPT that N times the electrical energy is generated and figure how the source does that; I know how it would work for heat mediated collapse of the field - its harder to randomise the dipoles - its like an extra heat capacity. Now if the collapse isn't heat mediated. Where does the energy come from? I've got some ideas: an electron say promoted to an energy level where it can take part in ferromagnetic processes by the exchange interaction; that electron is perturbed in its orbit a la Lamb shift type effects (zpe). Now I'm no quantum mechanist to be able to deal with QED but the answer lies there because one is trying to cohere a random effect. An orbital taking part in exchange processes is a very directional thing. ************************************************************************* So to finally answer you question: no experiment just yet, though this is near, cheap and simple to do; I'd like to put up a webpage but I don't want to publish until I feel the gaps have been filled; I have circulated a private document which I'll keep private for reasons of modesty and that some of it is a patent spec. I'll put the science in the open but the nitty-gritty I'll keep quite for a bit. ************************************************************************* Remi. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 13:14:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA07999; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:11:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:11:32 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:24:58 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Second light electron experiment report Resent-Message-ID: <"13QNd.0.vy1.px8Et" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27270 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 2:37 PM 5/8/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] >An LL of .07 ev (going by Case's experiments they could be less than 0.035 ev) >at 2 Kev will sweep a radius of about 2.5 inches with a 1.0 gauus B field >which is about twice the Earths 0.5 gauss B field. The electron optics of an >electrostatic deflection scope (4 inch?)is totally wrong for this experiment. If a magnetic field were aligned with an oscilloscope electron beam, any light electrons present in or near the beam should be drawn down the beam in a spiraling fashion, trapped in the longitudinal field. The field strength used in this experiment was probably over 250 gauss inside the scope. This would make for an about 1 hundredth inch radius spiral path for the 0.07 eV light leptons. At least a good percentage of light electrons should be drawn down the field lines to the phosphor screen, even through the electron gun orifice, assuing they are freed at the hot cathode. If the light leptons are drawn to the center spot when the field is straight on, moving it to the side, but still pointed at the electron gun, should deflect the light leptons to the side more than heavies, so the beam should separate into two spots. To again take a cursory look for the light leptons hypothesized by Fred Sparber a 5" diameter electron beam style oscilloscope, employing a Hitachi 5DEP1(F) display tube, was placed in x-y mode and the spot centered in the middle of the screen. Intensity was set so that a spot with about a 1/2 inch halo was produced. A very large field permanent magnet (large phi, not especially large B) was imployed to divert the beam by approaching from a large distance to a distance of about two feet. This magnet highly distorts a TV screen at a distance of 3 feet. The magnet was moved toward the spot on the beam axis, and was periodically moved to the side to check for beam diversion. When diverted, the halo of the oscilloscope beam moved in unison with the spot. There was no sign of beam separation. The experiment was repeated after reversing the magnet direction. The result of this cursory experiment is negative with regard to a sufficient number of light leptons being present to visibly affect the tube phosphor. This is inconclusive in that imposing a longitudinal field upon a bent gun will only increase the trapping effect. However, examination of the gun through the beam tube glass showed no indication of a bent gun or beam path. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 13:16:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA09326; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:14:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:14:44 -0700 From: "George Holz" To: Subject: Re: flux linkage and energy Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:15:31 -0400 Message-ID: <01be9beb$04acb5c0$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"TLUOA1.0.eH2.q-8Et" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27271 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Remi, You wrote: >Imagine I have some independent flux linking many short circuited low >resistance coils, don't worry about how the flux go there at this stage. >We have a flux and we can calculate the field energy. Now the flux >collapses by some mechanism. Each coil (and there are many!) sees the same >flux collapse, so generates the same amount of electrical energy. If we >have J joules of field energy linking N coils, we get NJ joules electrical >power. You do not get N times J joules of energy. If you truly have shorted linked coils with low resistance, the field does not collapse as the shorted coils force the linked flux to remain constant. A shorted coil cannot provide any electrical energy output - it would have to appear as a voltage across the short. If a magnetic field exists, it must be caused by an existing current or an aligned magnetic material. It is important to know the source in order to evaluate possible available energy output which would occur during the collapse of the field. Regards, George - George Holz Varitronics Systems 732-356-7773 george varisys.com 1924 US Hwy 22 East Bound Brook NJ 08805 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 13:40:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA17224; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:39:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:39:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 21:39:17 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi exeter To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: flux linkage and energy In-Reply-To: <01be9beb$04acb5c0$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"n3tLO2.0.-C4.zL9Et" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27272 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: George, good to hear from you again, On Tue, 11 May 1999, George Holz wrote: > Hi Remi, You wrote: > > >Imagine I have some independent flux linking many short circuited low > >resistance coils, don't worry about how the flux go there at this stage. > >We have a flux and we can calculate the field energy. Now the flux > >collapses by some mechanism. Each coil (and there are many!) sees the same > >flux collapse, so generates the same amount of electrical energy. If we > >have J joules of field energy linking N coils, we get NJ joules electrical > >power. > > You do not get N times J joules of energy. If you truly have shorted linked > coils with low resistance, the field does not collapse as the shorted coils > force the linked flux to remain constant. A shorted coil cannot provide any > electrical energy output - it would have to appear as a voltage across > the short. Yes! > If a magnetic field exists, it must be caused by an > existing current or an aligned magnetic material. It is important to > know the source in order to evaluate possible available energy output > which would occur during the collapse of the field. Yes too, I mentioned that in the previous email on this topic. The argument for a heat mediated collapse is that: it is harder to randomise the dipoles (current induced in the loops creates a field which tends to keep them how they are) - it's as though we have a higher heat capacity. BUT what if the collapse is non heat mediated? See my previous email. We can talk off-line if you wish. > > Regards, > George > - > George Holz Varitronics Systems > 732-356-7773 george varisys.com > 1924 US Hwy 22 East Bound Brook NJ 08805 > Cheers, Remi. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 14:14:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA15172; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:13:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:13:33 -0700 Message-ID: <51894749C42BD111AACB00805F191B5C0215B1DE XCH-CPC-02> From: "Scudder, Henry J" To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Second light electron experiment report Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:13:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2407.0) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"hvf_6.0.ri3.yr9Et" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27273 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace By changing the orientation of the magnet you should be able to introduce a component of field transverse to the beam. Hank > ---------- > From: hheffner mtaonline.net[SMTP:hheffner@mtaonline.net] > Reply To: vortex-l eskimo.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 1:24 PM > To: vortex-l eskimo.com > Subject: Second light electron experiment report > > At 2:37 PM 5/8/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: > [snip] > >An LL of .07 ev (going by Case's experiments they could be less than > 0.035 ev) > >at 2 Kev will sweep a radius of about 2.5 inches with a 1.0 gauus B > field > >which is about twice the Earths 0.5 gauss B field. The electron optics > of an > >electrostatic deflection scope (4 inch?)is totally wrong for this > experiment. > > > If a magnetic field were aligned with an oscilloscope electron beam, any > light electrons present in or near the beam should be drawn down the beam > in a spiraling fashion, trapped in the longitudinal field. The field > strength used in this experiment was probably over 250 gauss inside the > scope. This would make for an about 1 hundredth inch radius spiral path > for the 0.07 eV light leptons. At least a good percentage of light > electrons should be drawn down the field lines to the phosphor screen, > even > through the electron gun orifice, assuing they are freed at the hot > cathode. > > If the light leptons are drawn to the center spot when the field is > straight on, moving it to the side, but still pointed at the electron gun, > should deflect the light leptons to the side more than heavies, so the > beam > should separate into two spots. > > To again take a cursory look for the light leptons hypothesized by Fred > Sparber a 5" diameter electron beam style oscilloscope, employing a > Hitachi 5DEP1(F) display tube, was placed in x-y mode and the spot > centered > in the middle of the screen. Intensity was set so that a spot with about > a > 1/2 inch halo was produced. > > A very large field permanent magnet (large phi, not especially large B) > was > imployed to divert the beam by approaching from a large distance to a > distance of about two feet. This magnet highly distorts a TV screen at a > distance of 3 feet. The magnet was moved toward the spot on the beam axis, > and was periodically moved to the side to check for beam diversion. > > When diverted, the halo of the oscilloscope beam moved in unison with the > spot. There was no sign of beam separation. The experiment was repeated > after reversing the magnet direction. > > The result of this cursory experiment is negative with regard to a > sufficient number of light leptons being present to visibly affect the > tube > phosphor. This is inconclusive in that imposing a longitudinal field upon > a bent gun will only increase the trapping effect. However, examination > of > the gun through the beam tube glass showed no indication of a bent gun or > beam path. > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 14:18:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA21648; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:17:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:17:23 -0700 Message-ID: <51894749C42BD111AACB00805F191B5C0215B1DF XCH-CPC-02> From: "Scudder, Henry J" To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: flux linkage and energy Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:17:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2407.0) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"-nY_K2.0.wH5.Yv9Et" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27274 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Remi At one time a ceramic permanent magnet was used in artillery shells as a fuze actuator. When the shell would impact, the magnet would shatter, and the coil surrounding it would get a large electromagnetic pulse, which would cause the shell to explode. Hank > ---------- > From: George Holz[SMTP:george varisys.com] > Reply To: vortex-l eskimo.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 1:15 PM > To: vortex-l eskimo.com > Subject: Re: flux linkage and energy > > > Hi Remi, You wrote: > > >Imagine I have some independent flux linking many short circuited low > >resistance coils, don't worry about how the flux go there at this stage. > >We have a flux and we can calculate the field energy. Now the flux > >collapses by some mechanism. Each coil (and there are many!) sees the > same > >flux collapse, so generates the same amount of electrical energy. If we > >have J joules of field energy linking N coils, we get NJ joules > electrical > >power. > > You do not get N times J joules of energy. If you truly have shorted > linked > coils with low resistance, the field does not collapse as the shorted > coils > force the linked flux to remain constant. A shorted coil cannot provide > any > electrical energy output - it would have to appear as a voltage across > the short. > If a magnetic field exists, it must be caused by an > existing current or an aligned magnetic material. It is important to > know the source in order to evaluate possible available energy output > which would occur during the collapse of the field. > > Regards, > George > - > George Holz Varitronics Systems > 732-356-7773 george varisys.com > 1924 US Hwy 22 East Bound Brook NJ 08805 > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 16:29:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA28421; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:28:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:28:40 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:26:26 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: Noise (electrical) To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"fbhG31.0.zx6.eqBEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27275 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 05/10/1999 21:23:51 Pacific Daylight Time, VCockeram aol.com writes: > The glow discharge is electrically very noisy and interferes with the instruments. .......... There are four standard 120 volt outlets with "U" grounds in my garage / lab. One of the outlets had an open ground connection...want to guess which of the four supplied all power to the lab equipment? ....Right! The ungrounded one. The open was in a living room outlet / junction box. It was not a failure, the ground was NEVER connected! Shoddy work, also dangerous. It's fixed now. Is this Murphy's Law rearing it's head? No. It's MY fault for making assumptions. First rule when setting up an experiment that will be powered from the electric mains......Check the supply voltage AND grounding...It just may save: (1) your life, (2) time, (3) frustration. NEVER assume (as I did) that some licensed electricians assistant's helper's gofer wired the facility that it's right. Chagrined in Las Vegas Vince Cockeram From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 16:37:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29245; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:30:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:30:14 -0700 Message-ID: <000501be9c05$c2e96dc0$678f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Cathode Ray Tube Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 17:26:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE9BD3.75D2B320"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"9oB3I2.0.t87.6sBEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27276 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE9BD3.75D2B320 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01BE9BD3.75E37C00" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01BE9BD3.75E37C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cathode Ray Tube -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Cathode Ray Tube (CRT)=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01BE9BD3.75E37C00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cathode Ray Tube

 

Cathode Ray Tube (CRT)






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A467CmS4hcvAQUe/LVUhNEFSQ/1uRU3DDlgamkt5rZ3DK9GisIjonEWeO7B5E6sra8y/i3FG5d2t wfGb7zna31S9+b2gnX1MlXeU4f3fmTxb0Cbg42mZ5y3fqfTFmWXhEV58GF7gxb3ibz2VIT7iuTku B17j8Z2gRT4vOKfkh9HfUV6ZVX7l4bSaXV7hWz7mOT7kaX7cSX7+5pWuqHUe56O7502R54He22B+ 6B8+542eh4Q+6VPl5Jn+5Zf+6Ye06KX+VZy+6jU56rH+RrV+6+2F6r1+6rs+7AFx7MleSq7+7I8Z 6dVeW8C+7b/e7OE+TN9+7sue7U/J7hWWgvVe7Du+79U0cgC/6QV/8EfF3Q1/SFGgAAAAIf8LTUFD R0NvbiAEAxAxAAAAAVdyaXR0ZW4gYnkgR0lGQ29udmVydGVyIDIuMy43IG9mIEphbiAyOSwgMTk5 NAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE9BD3.75D2B320-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 17:02:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08557; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:57:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:57:51 -0700 Message-ID: <001401be9c09$a7095d00$678f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: The Cathode Ray Tube Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 17:54:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE9BD7.5A6FC1A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"TBMsh.0.d52.-FCEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27277 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE9BD7.5A6FC1A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.ul.ie/~flanagan/ce4704/Graphics/ghardw/crt.html Got I.E. 5.0 installed. Link capability back. Sorry about the long pages . FJS ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE9BD7.5A6FC1A0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="The Cathode Ray Tube.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="The Cathode Ray Tube.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.ul.ie/~flanagan/ce4704/Graphics/ghardw/crt.html [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.ul.ie/~flanagan/ce4704/Graphics/ghardw/crt.html Modified=40B44556099CBE01F3 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE9BD7.5A6FC1A0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 17:34:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA23358; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:33:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 17:33:29 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:46:57 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: RE: Second light electron experiment report Resent-Message-ID: <"AXb172.0.qi5.OnCEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27278 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 2:13 PM 5/11/99, Scudder, Henry J wrote: >Horace >By changing the orientation of the magnet you should be able to introduce a >component of field transverse to the beam. > >Hank That was the object of the first experiment (see reposted below) that Fred rejected on the basis that the cyclotron radius for (very) light leptons would be much smaller than the tube length. In the second experiment a lateral component IS introduced by moving the magnet to the side. However, by keeping the majority of the field longitudinal, and only rotating the magnet very slighly so as to keep it pointed at the gun, as in the second experiment, a spiral path is maintained that should trap any light leptons. The lighter they are the better the trap. A better experiment might have been to place the magnet to the rear of the tube, so as to impose a divergent field and thus avoid the possibility of magnetically reflecting any light leptons. The first experiment: At 9:51 AM 5/8/99, Horace Heffner wrote: >To look for the light leptons hypothesized by Fred Sparber an electron beam >style oscilloscope was placed in x-y mode and centered the spot in the >middle of the screen. Intensity was set so that a spot with about a 1/2 >inch halo was produced. > >A very large field permanent magnet (large phi, not especially large B) was >imployed to divert the beam by approaching from a large distance to >distance of about two feet. This magnet highly distorts a TV screen at a >distance of 3 feet. When diverted, the halo of the oscilloscope beam moved >in unison with the spot. There was no sign of beam separation. The >experiment was repeated by diverting the beam in various directions >including vertical and horizontal. > >The result of the experiment is negative with regard to a sufficient number >of light leptons being present to visibly affect the tube phosphor. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 19:53:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA02593; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:52:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:52:11 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01be9c21$fe615cc0$f88f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: Subject: Re: Second light electron experiment report Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:48:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"VAXEk1.0.Re.QpEEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27279 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Horace Heffner To: Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 6:46 PM Subject: RE: Second light electron experiment report A problem with the CRT, Horace. The grid that controls the intensity (or feeds video) is biased negative wrt the cathode. The focusing and accelerator electrodes (1200 to 2000 volts) can capture the LLs. You need a larger CRT and the "guts" tied at a high negative potential to push the negative LLs into the MAgnetic Deflection Coil field. Same as two pair of Helmholtz Coils. I can buy a New 19" TV at Wal-Mart for about $100.00. :-) Regards, Frederick > At 2:13 PM 5/11/99, Scudder, Henry J wrote: > >Horace > >By changing the orientation of the magnet you should be able to introduce a > >component of field transverse to the beam. > > > >Hank > > That was the object of the first experiment (see reposted below) that Fred > rejected on the basis that the cyclotron radius for (very) light leptons > would be much smaller than the tube length. In the second experiment a > lateral component IS introduced by moving the magnet to the side. However, > by keeping the majority of the field longitudinal, and only rotating the > magnet very slighly so as to keep it pointed at the gun, as in the second > experiment, a spiral path is maintained that should trap any light > leptons. The lighter they are the better the trap. > > A better experiment might have been to place the magnet to the rear of the > tube, so as to impose a divergent field and thus avoid the possibility of > magnetically reflecting any light leptons. > > The first experiment: > > At 9:51 AM 5/8/99, Horace Heffner wrote: > >To look for the light leptons hypothesized by Fred Sparber an electron beam > >style oscilloscope was placed in x-y mode and centered the spot in the > >middle of the screen. Intensity was set so that a spot with about a 1/2 > >inch halo was produced. > > > >A very large field permanent magnet (large phi, not especially large B) was > >imployed to divert the beam by approaching from a large distance to > >distance of about two feet. This magnet highly distorts a TV screen at a > >distance of 3 feet. When diverted, the halo of the oscilloscope beam moved > >in unison with the spot. There was no sign of beam separation. The > >experiment was repeated by diverting the beam in various directions > >including vertical and horizontal. > > > >The result of the experiment is negative with regard to a sufficient number > >of light leptons being present to visibly affect the tube phosphor. > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 21:00:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA25803; Tue, 11 May 1999 20:56:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:56:37 -0700 Message-ID: <002201be9c2b$035e6fc0$f88f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Leptons and Fluorescing Incandescent Light Bulbs Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 21:43:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"hPsHV2.0.5J6.rlFEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27280 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: FWIW, Horace. Rubbing an incandescent light bulb by holding it by the base in one hand and rubbing it with a Cotton Handkerchief with the other hand will excite the 500 Torr Argon-Nitrogen gas in it enough to make it fluoresce. A Silk Cloth WILL NOT work apparently because it sequesters the Leptons and/or Negative Ions (O2-) from the bulb. You can get the same effect with about any fluorescent bulb. I would bet that if you inserted a light bulb into the neck of a CRT with a Negative "pusher" electrode behind it, when you lit the bulb you would Photo-Detach the Negative Leptons from it an see them hit the tube phosphor. The Negative Ion Blemish problem with the small screen TV picture tubes only cropped up in the 7,000 to 14,000 volt range. Apparently the higher voltages strip the Leptons off of the ions and the lower voltages used for 5" CRTs don't give the ions enough momentum to destroy the phosphor when they hit it. Any bets as to where they hit the side of the tube or the phosphor? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 11 21:00:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA26214; Tue, 11 May 1999 20:56:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:56:57 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990511235355.00688414 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:53:55 -0400 To: Vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: More from Mizuno Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1UaJA1.0.WP6.8mFEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27281 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I had another conversation with Mizuno today. I am preparing to tackle the Japanese manuscript he will e-mail me. We went over the calorimetry and some questions about the tungsten materials that Ed Storms brought up. I want to look up some equipment specifications on Internet. Here are some of my notes and my evolving checklist. The tungsten is Nilaco 99.9%, which is not particularly pure. It is not ductile, which Ed says means it has oxygen contamination. The lead wire is also tungsten and it is spot welded onto the cathode and covered with Teflon. Before and after welding the cathode is cleaned carefully with aqua regia and various other preparations are made, which I will learn in detail. We are preparing a list of cautions -- dos and don'ts. The electrolyte is 150 cc of 0.2 mol. potassium carbonate. I will bring back a bottle of the reagent. Here is a look at the calorimetry: Input power is measured with an Advantest R7326-B data logger. The specifications are at: http://www.advantest.co.jp/catalog-e/eauto.htm, in pdf format. (Don't you just LOVE the Web for stuff like this?!?) Voltage is fairly steady but amperage bounces around, oscillating in one example from 0.6 to 1.4 amps with regular periodicity a few seconds in duration, caused by bubble formation. The cooler is an Advantec LF480 (not Advantest -- a completely different company.) The pump is a Cole Palmer Masterflex (a line that seems to be made by a company called Barnant). I think the model is PA-71B, but I do not find that on the web site http://www.barnant.com. Mizuno describes it as a low flow rate, high precision, peristaltic pump. It looks like an expensive little gem. The flow rate is adjusted from 1 to 6 ml/second to keep the cell temperature above 80 deg C. Mass flow is measured once per minute with high precision weight scale made by a German company, Sartorius (http://www.sartorius.com), the BP model I think. Another gem: 0.00001/0.0001 gram, 80/210 g. max model BP211D. McKubre et al. describe a similar setup. This is the most accurate and reliable way to measure flow; overall accuracy is ~0.7%. Data is stored on an NEC PC, in Lotus spreadsheets. Data is also recorded directly with a pen recorder for backup. The highest excess energy recorded was: Input power 120 volts * 1 amp = 120 watts Inlet temperature was 23 deg C; outlet was 62 deg C; Delta T equals 39 deg C. The flow rate was 1.689 grams per second, which comes to 277 watts. Smaller Delta T temperatures ranging from 22 to 30 degrees at this flow rate are more common. Pure water is circulated, not electrolyte. The cell is a double layer of glass, 5 cm in diameter, 12 cm tall. The cooling water enters the bottom of the cell, fills the outer layer, and goes out the top, so a layer of cooling water jackets the inner container. The calorimeter is not particularly well insulated: 95% of the heat is recovered. Most heat losses are from the top. Calibrations were performed with joule heaters and null electrolysis at steps from 100 to 500 watts. (If this was s.p.f. I would have to explain at this point that the 95% recovery rate means the cell is producing *more* heat than the raw numbers indicate, and no allowance is taken to account for recombination. Measured, known heat losses make no difference unless you try to include a fudge factor to make up for them. I could explain that until the cows come home, but people would still be yelling that "the calorimetry is only 95% accurate!") I misunderstood Mizuno's earlier statements about the duration of the tests. I hope I have it right this time! Each test run is 1,000 seconds long (17 minutes), and one cathode was run 5 times in a row (1.4 hours). The cathodes are damaged, but not as badly as ours were, I think. They run every day, so total run times from all cathodes adds up "weeks," as Mizuno told me on Sunday. A powerful run produces 200 KJ excess energy. The cell components cost roughly $500 total. (The cooler, pump and other calorimeter components cost a great deal more than that!) I plan to bring back at least three fully assembled cells, plus a box cathodes and a bottle of reagent. I am not sure whether we have the expertise to prepare materials and assemble a cell, but I suppose experts can be hired. Operating a clean, assembled cell should be easier than making one . . . I hope. Ed Storms suggested that if the tungsten is not pure, contamination should not be a major stumbling block with this experiment. There must be a lot of random material in there already. Perhaps the tungsten must have some specific impurity at the level of ~0.1%, and only Nilaco's samples have the mystery element in them. I do not know how much mass spectrography Ohmori and Mizuno have done on the cathodes. I suppose they have looked at the chemical makeup closely, but they have not examined the samples that we used, and the ones Scott Little used, which did not produce excess heat, so they may not know what caused our samples not to work. I know that the rate at which the tungsten was destroyed was quite different in these three tests. Ours crumbled immediately, O&M's is robust (but I am not sure how long it lasts), and as I recall, Little's cathodes were hardly damaged. This huge difference in performance must have some bearing on the apparent excess heat effect. This is speculation, but perhaps the effect did not occur in Little's case, so no damage was done by excess heat. Perhaps we have a Goldilocks problem: our tungsten is too soft, Little's is too hard, O&M's is ju-u-u-s-t right, so it absorbs hydrogen (?) and reacts. . . . well, I have my work cut out for me. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 00:24:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA07038; Wed, 12 May 1999 00:19:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 00:19:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:12:54 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi exeter To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: flux linkage and energy In-Reply-To: <51894749C42BD111AACB00805F191B5C0215B1DF XCH-CPC-02> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KYWaI.0.uj1.ujIEt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27282 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hank, Quoting Beethoven after a long struggle with thought - 'Can it be so? .. It must be so!' In your example, a little bit of energy went into the manufacture of the magnet and around it is a cerain 'field' energy. When the bomb crashes, some of the ke gets converted into electrical energy. I am now confused about the term 'field energy' because to me, a field is just a messenger, a piece of rope, saying 'something has changed over here'. So when people quote the Faraday/Lenz/Maxwell law: Curl E = -dO/dt they must resolve all the contributions to the field from all the sources. It is the resultant field. So if I have a ferromagnet which I expend a little energy on going below the Curie point then surround it with closed coils, when it heats up that heat *is* getting converted to electrical energy. The apparent field energy of the sample is not the only energy available on collapse, we must find the net field from the sample and the coils. No? Now what if the collapse is not heat mediated. What is the mechanism? For heat, the dipoles find it harder to randomise when surrounded by all those coils - a 'virtual' extra heat capacity exists as the sample warms up. What dipole interaction exists for a non-heat mediate collapse? Remi. On Tue, 11 May 1999, Scudder, Henry J wrote: > Remi > At one time a ceramic permanent magnet was used in artillery shells > as a fuze actuator. When the shell would impact, the magnet would shatter, > and the coil surrounding it would get a large electromagnetic pulse, which > would cause the shell to explode. > > Hank > > > ---------- > > From: George Holz[SMTP:george varisys.com] > > Reply To: vortex-l eskimo.com > > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 1:15 PM > > To: vortex-l eskimo.com > > Subject: Re: flux linkage and energy > > > > > > Hi Remi, You wrote: > > > > >Imagine I have some independent flux linking many short circuited low > > >resistance coils, don't worry about how the flux go there at this stage. > > >We have a flux and we can calculate the field energy. Now the flux > > >collapses by some mechanism. Each coil (and there are many!) sees the > > same > > >flux collapse, so generates the same amount of electrical energy. If we > > >have J joules of field energy linking N coils, we get NJ joules > > electrical > > >power. > > > > You do not get N times J joules of energy. If you truly have shorted > > linked > > coils with low resistance, the field does not collapse as the shorted > > coils > > force the linked flux to remain constant. A shorted coil cannot provide > > any > > electrical energy output - it would have to appear as a voltage across > > the short. > > If a magnetic field exists, it must be caused by an > > existing current or an aligned magnetic material. It is important to > > know the source in order to evaluate possible available energy output > > which would occur during the collapse of the field. > > > > Regards, > > George > > - > > George Holz Varitronics Systems > > 732-356-7773 george varisys.com > > 1924 US Hwy 22 East Bound Brook NJ 08805 > > > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 03:26:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA30445; Wed, 12 May 1999 03:26:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 03:26:13 -0700 Message-ID: <003f01be9c61$6fe82c40$f88f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 04:20:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"aPMju.0.dR7.4TLEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27283 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex The 23% Pore Volume of Common Brick with Nanometer to Micron Pore size, and the ability of the brick to effect ion exchange should lend itself nicely to CF experimentation (similar to Case's Pd-Activated Carbon activity). A convenient high pressure vessel can be made using schedule 80 mild or stainless steel pipe with welded flanges and matching cover plates with threaded penetrations. For a 6 inch pipe the flanges have 12 holes to accept 3/4 " bolts and use flat gaskets for a pressure seal. Clamp-on band heaters (www.watlow.com ) are sized to fit most standard pipe sizes. The Brick can be "diced" using a saw with a masonry blade. Or you can use Activated Carbon (about $7.00/lb at aquarium supply stores). If the bolts are tightened to the proper torque rating, the 6" pipes can be safely pressurized to 1,000 PSIG, with air, hydrogen or steam/hot water. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 03:41:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA32317; Wed, 12 May 1999 03:38:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 03:38:31 -0700 Message-ID: <000801be9c63$279dc920$8fb4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Heat Loss Factors and Graphs Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 04:35:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BE9C30.D9269420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"vbWEK3.0.qu7.ceLEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27284 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BE9C30.D9269420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.watlow.com/ref/0303.htm Lots of other goodies also. FJS ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BE9C30.D9269420 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Heat Loss Factors and Graphs.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Heat Loss Factors and Graphs.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.watlow.com/ref/0303.htm [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.watlow.com/ref/0303.htm Modified=803C47E2629CBE01A2 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BE9C30.D9269420-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 07:27:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA27875; Wed, 12 May 1999 07:21:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:21:55 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990512100941.007b6100 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:09:41 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Additions and corrections from Mizuno Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8NeTv1.0.Tp6.3wOEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27285 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here are some additions and corrections to my note about Mizuno, based on an English e-mail he sent to Scott Little and me: Current is determined by measuring voltage through a shunt (Hioki Co. 9081; 0.01 Ohm, DC10A 0.1%) connected to a data logger (Advantest R7326B, as stated earlier). A digital power meter (Yokogawa co. WT130) is used to "calibrate" the power measurements. I am not sure what this means. A typical flow volume is 1.68 g/s. Calibration was from 10 to 300 watts, not 100 to 500 watts as I reported earlier. Maybe we are talking about a different data set; it is hard to believe I got that wrong. Mizuno was riffling through spreadsheet printouts when he described that. Heat recovery is 95% when calibrated with joule heating or ordinary glow discharge electrolysis, but it falls to ~80% with ordinary electrolysis. This is probably because with ordinary glow discharge electrolysis, overpotential is high so most of the energy goes into joule heating, whereas with ordinary electrolysis more of the energy is carried off in free oxygen and hydrogen. This is an open cell. He used 0.1-m K2CO3. My notes say clearly 0.2 molar. Maybe we are talking about a different run. K type of thermocouples are used in the cell inlet and outlet. High voltage noise from the cell affected the thermocouples. They were regrounded to fix this problem. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 08:27:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA23018; Wed, 12 May 1999 08:23:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:23:17 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 06:36:47 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: More from Mizuno Resent-Message-ID: <"gUHPF3.0.ad5.bpPEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27286 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:53 PM 5/11/99, Jed Rothwell wrote: [snip] >The highest excess energy recorded was: > >Input power 120 volts * 1 amp = 120 watts Two comments: (1) I don't see in the description of the calorimetry where the electrode is weighed before and after, and compensation made for the caloric value of the oxidation of the tungsten. If this is not done the caloric input value is low. (2) The 1000 second run times may not be sufficient to establish that the vast majority of the run was made during stable thermal conditions. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 09:07:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA05724; Wed, 12 May 1999 08:59:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:59:12 -0700 From: aki ix.netcom.com Message-ID: <3739A5A4.590E ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:00:36 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Speed of light at 38 MPH. Re: The World of Science References: <37398ED4.A595351C worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zY4Vx3.0.MP1.GLQEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27287 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 12, 1999 Vortex, Ali Javey sent an e-mail notice: > The World of Science web site has been relocated and redesigned. Now > it has its own domain name: > <> > > A l i J a v e y > ajavey worldnet.att.net > The World of Science > <> A quick glance at the site caught a short news note that at Havard, light was slowed to 38 mph (miles per hour) going through a 'Bose-Einstein condensate' with plans to slow light a 1,000 times more. I've read that the speed of light changes going through substances. Does E=MC2 remain immortal? What's going on? -AK- > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 10:24:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA32288; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:22:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:22:19 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990512132023.00798db0 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:20:23 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: More from Mizuno Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"UG0kF1.0.Ju7.AZREt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27288 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner writes: (1) I don't see in the description of the calorimetry where the electrode is weighed before and after, and compensation made for the caloric value of the oxidation of the tungsten. If this is not done the caloric input value is low. If I can decipher my notes here . . . Mizuno estimated the maximum value of chemical fuel in the cell at 1 KJ, if all fuel is oxidized. That never happens. As I said, high-powered runs produced 200 KJ, and some cathodes were used repeatedly. The cathode is a rectangle, 10 mm by 5 mm, 0.5 mm thick, with a 1 mm diameter tungsten lead wire spot-welded on to it. Maybe you can figure out the mass of 25 mm^3 of tungsten, and the maximum caloric value from burning it. Lesssee . . . that's 0.025 cm^3 of metal, which has a density of 12 g/cm^3, so we have 0.3 grams. If it was gasoline it would produce 12,600 joules. 0.3 grams of high-volatile B bituminous commonly agglomerating coal (whatever that is) would produce 9,060 joules, according to Britannica and the 1993 Annual Book of ASTM Standards, section 5, volume 5.05. (CDs and the Internet are grand! They let you make these authoritative pronouncements without knowing anything.) (2) The 1000 second run times may not be sufficient to establish that the vast majority of the run was made during stable thermal conditions. I have not seen data for this, but based on our runs and the small amount of electrolyte (150 ml), I would expect the cell to reach maximum temperature quickly. I don't think it goes into a "stable" condition. The runs I have seen on video flicker, sputter, and change violently. I'm not sure when he begins the 1000 second recording: from the time the power turns on, or from the time the cell temperature exceeds the 80 ~ 85 deg C threshold. I may need to visit Japan to iron out these details. I'm copying these messages to Mizuno along with questions in Japanese, so we may get answers sooner, or I may interrupt him and delay the paper he is writing. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 11:27:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA22966; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:24:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:24:37 -0700 Message-ID: <001b01be9ca4$3e3ff0e0$5e8f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <3.0.6.32.19990512132023.00798db0 pop.mindspring.com> Subject: Re: More from Mizuno Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:21:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"ibUaw1.0.mc5.bTSEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27289 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Jed Rothwell To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 11:20 AM Subject: Re: More from Mizuno Jed writes, >(CDs and > the Internet are grand! They let you make these authoritative > pronouncements without knowing anything.) ROFL! So do Nobel Awards and other such Certificates! :-) Regards, Frederick > > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 13:00:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA21868; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:59:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:59:38 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:13:07 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: More from Mizuno Resent-Message-ID: <"FG7kY.0.cL5.gsTEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27290 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 1:20 PM 5/12/99, Jed Rothwell wrote: >Horace Heffner writes: >The cathode is a rectangle, 10 mm by 5 mm, 0.5 mm thick, with a 1 mm >diameter tungsten lead wire spot-welded on to it. Maybe you can figure out >the mass of 25 mm^3 of tungsten, and the maximum caloric value from burning >it. Lesssee . . . that's 0.025 cm^3 of metal, which has a density of 12 >g/cm^3, so we have 0.3 grams. Using 1520.9 kJ/mol for Ti2O3 formation, that's (1520.9 kJ/mol)/(2*183.85 g/mol of Ti2) = 4.1 kJ/g maximum enthalpy. Using your 0.3 g we have (4.1 kJ/g)(0.3 g) = 1.23 kJ, which I agree is not significant compared against 150 J/s for 1000 s = 150 kJ excess heat, especially considering it is a maximum value which requires complete consumption of the electrode. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 13:38:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA03323; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:35:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:35:37 -0700 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:39:30 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Leptons and Fluorescing Incandescent Light Bulbs In-Reply-To: <002201be9c2b$035e6fc0$f88f85ce default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3aGtj1.0.rp.POUEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27291 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., Below is mention of "blemish" ..... what blemish is this? What is the emprirical nature of the blemish? When and how and why does it happen? Thanks, John On Tue, 11 May 1999, Frederick Sparber wrote: > FWIW, Horace. Rubbing an incandescent light bulb by holding it by the base > in one hand and rubbing it with a Cotton Handkerchief with the other hand > will excite the 500 Torr Argon-Nitrogen gas in it enough to make it > fluoresce. > > A Silk Cloth WILL NOT work apparently because it sequesters the Leptons > and/or Negative Ions (O2-) from the bulb. > > You can get the same effect with about any fluorescent bulb. > > I would bet that if you inserted a light bulb into the neck of a CRT with a > Negative "pusher" electrode behind it, when you lit the bulb you would > Photo-Detach the Negative Leptons from it an see them hit the tube phosphor. > > The Negative Ion Blemish problem with the small screen TV picture tubes > only cropped up in the 7,000 to 14,000 volt range. Apparently the higher > voltages strip the Leptons off of the ions and the lower voltages used for > 5" CRTs don't give the ions enough momentum to destroy the phosphor when > they hit it. > > Any bets as to where they hit the side of the tube or the phosphor? :-) > > Regards, Frederick > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 16:08:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA07564; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:07:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:07:08 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990512180832.00a36788 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:08:32 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Additions and corrections from Mizuno In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990512100941.007b6100 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"y78Q6.0.2s1.ScWEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27292 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:09 5/12/99 -0400, Jed Rothwell wrote: >Here are some additions and corrections to my note about Mizuno, based on >an English e-mail he sent to Scott Little and me: I'm glad Mizuno copied you, Jed. Your experience in interpreting the unusual sentence structure of a native Japanese speaker is valuable. I am delighted at Mizuno's cooperative attitude. For example he says, "I am welcome anytime you want" regarding my proposal to visit his lab. However, in view of the distance, I am presently inclined to make another attempt at replication...this time matching his apparatus much more closely. >A digital power meter (Yokogawa co. WT130) is used to "calibrate" the power >measurements. I am not sure what this means. Me neither. I've looked at his data logger's specs and it is possible to make it sample at 60 points/200ms...or 300 points/sec...or once every 3 milliseconds. That's not fast enough to faithfully track the erratic current spikes so I think the average of his periodic current samples will be equal to the AVERAGE current drawn by the cell. If he multiplies that by the measured voltage across the cell, he should be OK...at least not understating the input power. But I wish he would just use the Yokogawa power analyzer. >A typical flow volume is 1.68 g/s. Wow, this is pretty low for a 250 watt "signal". At that output power level, the water will undergo a 36C delta-T. I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with it, though. >Heat recovery is 95% when calibrated with joule heating or ordinary glow >discharge electrolysis, but it falls to ~80% with ordinary electrolysis. >This is probably because with ordinary glow discharge electrolysis, >overpotential is high so most of the energy goes into joule heating, >whereas with ordinary electrolysis more of the energy is carried off in >free oxygen and hydrogen. This is an open cell. I could see this effect in my earlier M-O cell...it wasn't that big but it was quite noticeable. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 16:37:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA19868; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:35:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:35:12 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: More from Mizuno Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:34:28 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <373b0f48.76135819 mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA19752 Resent-Message-ID: <"vU-nx3.0.vr4.k0XEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27293 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 12 May 1999 11:13:07 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote: >At 1:20 PM 5/12/99, Jed Rothwell wrote: >>Horace Heffner writes: > >>The cathode is a rectangle, 10 mm by 5 mm, 0.5 mm thick, with a 1 mm >>diameter tungsten lead wire spot-welded on to it. Maybe you can figure out >>the mass of 25 mm^3 of tungsten, and the maximum caloric value from burning >>it. Lesssee . . . that's 0.025 cm^3 of metal, which has a density of 12 >>g/cm^3, so we have 0.3 grams. > >Using 1520.9 kJ/mol for Ti2O3 formation, that's (1520.9 kJ/mol)/(2*183.85 >g/mol of Ti2) = 4.1 kJ/g maximum enthalpy. > >Using your 0.3 g we have (4.1 kJ/g)(0.3 g) = 1.23 kJ, which I agree is not >significant compared against 150 J/s for 1000 s = 150 kJ excess heat, >especially considering it is a maximum value which requires complete >consumption of the electrode. Though I agree that the enthalpies won't differ by a factor 100, I'm still curious why you used Ti rather than W for your calculation? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 16:57:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29122; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:56:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:56:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990512185735.00a36788 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:57:35 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: More from Mizuno In-Reply-To: <373b0f48.76135819 mail-hub> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"REkqP3.0.t67.RKXEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27294 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>it. Lesssee . . . that's 0.025 cm^3 of metal, which has a density of 12 >>>g/cm^3, so we have 0.3 grams. ...er, W's density is 19.3. That gives us .48 grams...or .0026 moles of W. But, as I see it, there's a much more important issue. In order to oxidize the W, we have to dissociate H2O to get the oxygen. From my earlier reports (http://www.eden.com/~little/Inc-W/Wreport.html): "The formation of WO3 from W and O2 is exothermic and yields 841,000 joules/mole. To get the necessary O2 for one mole of WO3, however, 3 moles of H2O have to be dissociated and that costs 858,000 joules." This means the net result of oxidizing W using O from H2O is -17,000 joule/mole. It would REQUIRE heat...not RELEASE heat...and consumption of the entire cathode in Mizuno's cell would require only 44 joules. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 17:43:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA08529; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:41:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:41:42 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:55:13 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: More from Mizuno Resent-Message-ID: <"nDUjf.0.B52.5_XEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27295 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 1:20 PM 5/12/99, Jed Rothwell wrote: >Horace Heffner writes: >The cathode is a rectangle, 10 mm by 5 mm, 0.5 mm thick, with a 1 mm >diameter tungsten lead wire spot-welded on to it. Maybe you can figure out >the mass of 25 mm^3 of tungsten, and the maximum caloric value from burning >it. Lesssee . . . that's 0.025 cm^3 of metal, which has a density of 12 >g/cm^3, so we have 0.3 grams. Are both electrodes tungsten and the same size? Is this an all AC cell or is there some DC? Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 17:51:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA11427; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:49:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:49:41 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:03:11 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: More from Mizuno Resent-Message-ID: <"-eThB3.0.To2.a6YEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27296 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 2:34 PM 5/12/99, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: [snip] >Though I agree that the enthalpies won't differ by a factor 100, I'm >still curious why you used Ti rather than W for your calculation? Thanks for noticing Robin. Just a mental aberration, and I am very short on time. I had Ti on the brain and did the entire calc using Ti and then went back and only partially corrected the molecular weight by mistake, not realizing the whole thing was wrong. It should have read as follows: Using -533.9 kJ/mol for WO2 formation, that's (533.9 kJ/mol)/(183.85 g/mol of W) = 2.9 kJ/g maximum enthalpy. Using your 0.3 g we have (2.9 kJ/g)(0.3 g) = 0.87 kJ, which I agree is not significant compared against 150 J/s for 1000 s = 150 kJ excess heat, especially considering it is a maximum value which requires complete consumption of the electrode. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 18:16:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA19816; Wed, 12 May 1999 18:13:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:13:34 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:27:03 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: More from Mizuno Resent-Message-ID: <"W5fi41.0.Yr4.-SYEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27297 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 6:57 PM 5/12/99, Scott Little wrote: >>>>it. Lesssee . . . that's 0.025 cm^3 of metal, which has a density of 12 >>>>g/cm^3, so we have 0.3 grams. > >...er, W's density is 19.3. That gives us .48 grams...or .0026 moles of W. > But, as I see it, there's a much more important issue. In order to >oxidize the W, we have to dissociate H2O to get the oxygen. From my >earlier reports (http://www.eden.com/~little/Inc-W/Wreport.html): > >"The formation of WO3 from W and O2 is exothermic and yields >841,000 joules/mole. To get the necessary O2 for one mole of WO3, however, >3 moles of H2O have to be dissociated and that costs 858,000 joules." > >This means the net result of oxidizing W using O from H2O is -17,000 >joule/mole. It would REQUIRE heat...not RELEASE heat...and consumption of >the entire cathode in Mizuno's cell would require only 44 joules. This is interesting - and I overlooked this fact entirely. Another interesting fact is that oxidation is driven at the *anode*, not the cathode. This is why my question about the AC and DC components. I would be interesting to test a cell loaded up with a layer of contained WO3 powder between the electrodes, or even an elecrodeless version of a WO3 and electrolyte cell. Also I used the enthalpy of WO2, not WO3: Using -1139.3 kJ/mol for WO2 formation, that's (1139.3 kJ/mol)/(183.85 g/mol of W) = 6.2 kJ/g maximum enthalpy. Using Scott's 0.48 g we have (6.2 kJ/g)(0.48 g) = 12.9 kJ, which I agree is not (very) significant compared against 150 J/s for 1000 s = 150 kJ excess heat, especially considering it is a maximum value which requires complete consumption of the electrode. Accounting for the dissociation of the water is interesting, because the oxygen in the electrolyte, either in the form of dissolved O2 or CO2, would be samll and would tend to dissipate over the course of the experiment via recombination and or oxidation of the electrode. Is water used or is there an electrolyte, like calcium carbonate? Is there a detailed description of the experiment somewhere? Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 18:39:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA29423; Wed, 12 May 1999 18:38:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:38:29 -0700 From: aki ix.netcom.com Message-ID: <373A2DF0.4985 ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:42:08 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks References: <003f01be9c61$6fe82c40$f88f85ce default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QJhiC3.0.bB7.KqYEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27298 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 12, 1999 Frederick Sparber wrote of possible 'hot brick' CF experiment procedure. I would be be proud to contribute toward the experiment. Let me toss a brick with your address tag into the corner mailbox right away --- return anonymonous. :) -ak- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 18:53:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA01512; Wed, 12 May 1999 18:50:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:50:32 -0700 Message-ID: <001e01be9ce2$dbe7dc20$1f5bccd1 default> From: "Mike Carrell" To: Subject: Re: Speed of light at 38 MPH. Re: The World of Science Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:46:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"15ttY.0.VN.e_YEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27299 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: aki said: >I've read that the speed of light changes going through substances. Does >E=MC2 remain immortal? What's going on? Physics as usual. The notion of the speed of light being a universal constant applies only in a vacuum, which is assumed when this point is discussed. the speed is determined by the intrinsic permittivity and permeability of space. Any other media have higher values of permeability and permitivity, including glass and water, and slow light down, which is the fundamental fact underlying all refraction and reflection. The Bose-Einstein condensate experiment was simply has very high values for the parameters, so light slows down. E=MC^2 has nothing to do with this. Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 18:59:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA04873; Wed, 12 May 1999 18:58:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:58:41 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:02:33 -0400 Message-ID: <19990513020233843.AAA174 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"2PYet2.0.3C1.G7ZEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27300 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yo, >May 12, 1999 > >Frederick Sparber wrote of possible 'hot brick' CF experiment procedure. > >I would be be proud to contribute toward the experiment. Let me toss a >brick with your address tag into the corner mailbox right away --- >return anonymonous. :) > >-ak- All the microwave kids on the FreeNRG list were doing this experiment a couple of years ago, actually. The calorimetry was _really_ crude, as I recall, but they were reporting XS heat. Twas no surprise to this reader. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 19:34:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA15396; Wed, 12 May 1999 19:33:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 19:33:04 -0700 Message-ID: <002c01be9ce8$7fd713a0$238f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <003f01be9c61$6fe82c40$f88f85ce default> <373A2DF0.4985@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:27:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"RbTQV2.0.Um3.WdZEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27301 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 7:42 PM Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Thanks Akira, but could you break it up to about minus 4 mesh first so I can put it in a pressue "bottle" so I can run H2O-K2CO3 through it to get the Ion Exchange and take advantage of the 500 plus Meters^2/gram Surface area? Those 0.035 ev Light Leptons (in air) that catalayze the CF in it are also about 80 nanometers in diameter and require the pore size spread that you find in bricks, otherwise you have to hold the temperature at 450-550 K to get the "Resonance" production of LL Pairs (Same as Solar Neutrinos-AntiNeutrinos) this means H2O/D2O pressures of about 800 PSIG. I just got through reading Scott's report on his Ohmori-Mizuno "Incandescent W" replication experiment. I think he was running it too hot, thus missing the LL formation resonance point. Regards, Frederick > May 12, 1999 > > Frederick Sparber wrote of possible 'hot brick' CF experiment procedure. > > I would be be proud to contribute toward the experiment. Let me toss a > brick with your address tag into the corner mailbox right away --- > return anonymonous. :) > > -ak- > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 19:43:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA18059; Wed, 12 May 1999 19:42:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 19:42:24 -0700 Message-ID: <004001be9ce9$cdc4eaa0$238f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <19990513020233843.AAA174 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:37:43 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"A_WoL3.0.1Q4.GmZEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27302 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael T Huffman To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 8:02 PM Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Yes Indeed, Knuke. I baked a brick in the oven for several hours then let it cool overnight to room temperature, then microwave it to see if it would heat up. It stayed as cool as a a cucumber. I then soaked it for several hours and the microwaved it. In about 3-4 minutes it got so hot that I could barely handle it even with gloves on. :-) Regards, Frederick > Yo, > > >May 12, 1999 > > > >Frederick Sparber wrote of possible 'hot brick' CF experiment procedure. > > > >I would be be proud to contribute toward the experiment. Let me toss a > >brick with your address tag into the corner mailbox right away --- > >return anonymonous. :) > > > >-ak- > > All the microwave kids on the FreeNRG list were doing this > experiment a couple of years ago, actually. The calorimetry was _really_ > crude, as I recall, but they were reporting XS heat. Twas no surprise to > this reader. > > Knuke > > > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > Lady Lake, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 12 22:22:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA31939; Wed, 12 May 1999 22:21:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:21:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990513002513.008dcb30 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 00:25:13 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: More from Mizuno In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"LtbKx1.0.zo7.K5cEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27303 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:27 PM 5/12/99 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote: >Another interesting fact is that oxidation is driven at the *anode*, not >the cathode. Yes, this is surprising. But conditions around the cathode in this cell are far from ordinary. During incandescence, there is a gas sheath surrounding the cathode and there are electrical discharges taking place between the metallic surface of the cathode and the liquid electrolyte surface that faces the gas. My hypothesis that H2O is being dissociated to supply the O for oxidation of the W is supported by the observation of "excess" H gas emerging from our cell in an amount consistent with the quantity of W metal consumed (see my Incandescent W reports on the web). >Is water used or is there >an electrolyte, like calcium carbonate? Is there a detailed description of >the experiment somewhere? Yes, in the proceedings of ICCF-7, on our web page under "Incandescent W" and in a recent issue of IE, but basically it's a simple electrolysis cell with a Pt anode (which is not damaged during operation) and a W cathode....i.e. DC operation. K2CO3 electrolyte (made with light water) is used. The experiment is started by passing a relatively low voltage thru the cell to heat the soln up to ~80C. Once that temp has been reached, you raise the voltage suddenly to ~150 volts. As you do this, the current begins to soar (as you might expect) but then drops suddenly to around 1 ampere as a sheath of gas forms around the cathode. BTW, if you don't have the soln hot enuf when you raise the voltage, the current DOES soar and you'll probably overload your power supply. Most of the cell voltage is dropped across the gas sheath so that's where most of the ~150 watts is dissipated. The result is that the W cathode gets VERY hot...incandescent. The cell makes a dramatic rumbling sound and looks like something out of a science fiction movie. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 01:22:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA03385; Thu, 13 May 1999 01:21:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 01:21:41 -0700 Message-ID: <000601be9d19$32655ec0$aab4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990513002513.008dcb30 mail.eden.com> Subject: Re: More from Mizuno Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 02:18:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"kvJ7J.0.lq.LkeEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27304 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Little To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 11:25 PM Subject: Re: More from Mizuno Scott wrote, Snip > > The result is that the W cathode gets VERY hot...incandescent. The cell > makes a dramatic rumbling sound and looks like something out of a science > fiction movie. > Big Buck Possibilities There, Scott! :-) Regards, Frederick > Scott Little > EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 > 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) > little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 01:28:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA05574; Thu, 13 May 1999 01:25:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 01:25:58 -0700 From: "Gary Hawkins" To: Subject: RE: Speed of light at 38 MPH. Re: The World of Science Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 01:25:56 -0700 Message-ID: <002a01be9d1a$38e82100$a51a7acc temp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <001e01be9ce2$dbe7dc20$1f5bccd1 default> Resent-Message-ID: <"WKf31.0.0N1.MoeEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27305 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Carrell [mailto:mikec snip.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 6:46 PM > To: vortex-l eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Speed of light at 38 MPH. Re: The World of Science > > > aki said: > > > > >I've read that the speed of light changes going through substances. Does > >E=MC2 remain immortal? What's going on? > > > Physics as usual. The notion of the speed of light being a universal > constant applies only in a vacuum, which is assumed when this point is > discussed. the speed is determined by the intrinsic permittivity and > permeability of space. Any other media have higher values of permeability > and permitivity, including glass and water, and slow light down, which is > the fundamental fact underlying all refraction and reflection. The > Bose-Einstein condensate experiment was simply has very high values for the > parameters, so light slows down. E=MC^2 has nothing to do with this. > > Mike Carrell > Wouldn't the ether around the Sun be thicker, so that light passing the Sun would be refracted, not pulled by gravity as is presumed. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 02:18:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA09140; Thu, 13 May 1999 02:17:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 02:17:59 -0700 From: aki ix.netcom.com Message-ID: <373A994B.56F8 ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 02:20:11 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks References: <003f01be9c61$6fe82c40$f88f85ce default> <373A2DF0.4985@ix.netcom.com> <002c01be9ce8$7fd713a0$238f85ce@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iEw6K.0.kE2.6ZfEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27306 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 13, 1999 Frederick Sparber wrote: > > --- but could you break it up to about minus 4 mesh first so I can > put it in a pressue "bottle" so I can run H2O-K2CO3 through it to get >the Ion Exchange and take advantage of the 500 plus Meters^2/gram >Surface area? Minus 4 mesh? Let me send you two bricks so you can mash them together to custom size it. Or I can bundle it with a hammer in an unwrapped bundle (so mo one would be tempted). Or perhaps a bottle of brick mud so that you can bake size it to your requirements. I continue to appreciate your bountiful ideas, really. -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 02:28:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA25408; Thu, 13 May 1999 02:27:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 02:27:42 -0700 Message-ID: <002001be9d22$6a75b360$aab4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Cc: Subject: Re: Ten Thousand Tev Particle Accelerator, High School Scince Fair Project Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 03:23:33 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"IkQg42.0.wC6.DifEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27307 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Last fall a local high school science teacher asked me if I would assist a student that wanted to build a "Particle Accelerator" for a Science Fair Project. With the safety requirements for the exhibits in mind, I declined, but suggested that a Slingshot would qualify as a "Particle Accelerator". The student switched to "The Role of Plant Nutrients in Beta Carotene Uptake" and commandeered my Encyclopedia of Science and Technology CD for his research and came up with two scholarships at major Universities and came in 3rd place at the State Science Fair competition. When you run the calculation: K.E. = .5 mv^2 for 10,000 Tev (1.6E-3 Joule) it turns out that a rubber band and spit-ball "Classroom Particle Accelerator" dwarfs the kinetic energy of a Proton in the Super Conducting Super Collider? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 02:33:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA32038; Thu, 13 May 1999 02:31:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 02:31:38 -0700 Message-ID: <002601be9d22$f89adc60$aab4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <003f01be9c61$6fe82c40$f88f85ce default> <373A2DF0.4985@ix.netcom.com> <002c01be9ce8$7fd713a0$238f85ce@default> <373A994B.56F8@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 03:28:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"nwJkE2.0.Rq7.wlfEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27308 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 3:20 AM Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Thanks Akira, but judging from the conditon of my lateest Sierra Club Magazine, by the time the Postal Service delivers it, it will be Minus 400 Mesh, at least. :-) Regards, Frederick > May 13, 1999 > > Frederick Sparber wrote: > > > > --- but could you break it up to about minus 4 mesh first so I can > > put it in a pressue "bottle" so I can run H2O-K2CO3 through it to get >the Ion Exchange and take advantage of the 500 plus Meters^2/gram >Surface area? > > Minus 4 mesh? Let me send you two bricks so you can mash them together > to custom size it. Or I can bundle it with a hammer in an unwrapped > bundle (so mo one would be tempted). Or perhaps a bottle of brick mud so > that you can bake size it to your requirements. > I continue to appreciate your bountiful ideas, really. > > -AK- > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 02:50:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA21746; Thu, 13 May 1999 02:46:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 02:46:42 -0700 From: aki ix.netcom.com Message-ID: <373AA02B.3FA0 ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 02:49:31 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Speed of light at 38 MPH. Re: The World of Science References: <001e01be9ce2$dbe7dc20$1f5bccd1 default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fK-zv.0.iJ5.2-fEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27309 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 13, 1999 Mike Carrell wrote in explanation: (with snips) > Physics as usual. The notion of the speed of light being a universal > constant applies only in a vacuum, which is assumed when this point is > discussed. the speed is determined by the intrinsic permittivity and > permeability of space. Any other media have higher values of >permeability and permitivity, including glass and water, and slow >light down, --- Thanks, As I gather the report now, the 'slowing' effect of the experiment is analogous to a stream of water being flush-streamed over a mesh (bose-einstein condensate) surface. If the mesh is very fine, the water will make it over. Otherwise, as the mesh size grows, eventually nothing. So the 'slowing' effect does not apply to a single light quanta (photon?)but to the stream of light photons speeding along. -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 04:05:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA16499; Thu, 13 May 1999 04:04:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 04:04:20 -0700 Message-ID: <002701be9d30$398103a0$1259ccd1 default> From: "Mike Carrell" To: Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 06:26:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"hXID02.0.j14.p6hEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27310 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick Sparber said: > >Yes Indeed, Knuke. I baked a brick in the oven for several hours then let >it cool overnight to room temperature, then microwave it to see if it would >heat up. >It stayed as cool as a a cucumber. I then soaked it for several hours and >the microwaved it. In about 3-4 minutes it got so hot that I could barely >handle it even with gloves on. :-) > >Regards, Frederick A passing note: microwave ovens work by jerking polar molecules around by the RF field inside. If the charges in a molecule are evenly distributed so that it is electrically neutral on a small scale, it doesn't get hot in a microwave. Water is one of the most strongly polar molecules around; the oxygen is on one side and the two hydrogens on the other. As a result it has a phenomenal dielectric constant (about 80, as I recall) and very strongly responds to the RF fields in a microwave. So dry bricks stay cool and wet bricks don't, and foods which contain lots of water get hot very readily. The strongly polar aspect of the water molecule is probably related to the strange properties of water, which is not a simple substance at all when studied in detail. Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 04:37:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA21917; Thu, 13 May 1999 04:37:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 04:37:04 -0700 Message-ID: <000601be9d34$7d5f2440$83b4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <002701be9d30$398103a0$1259ccd1 default> Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 05:33:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"SLSWd.0.NM5.VbhEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27311 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Carrell To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 4:26 AM Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Quite right,Mike, but the pore volume of the brick along with hydration of it's lattice ions makes it significantly different that the same volume of water microwaved in a cup. There is NO REASON why "Hydrino-Hydride" cannot be formed using thermal means such as this, the difficulty lies in ascertaining the OU heat involved. Along the same lines the "Dielectric Loss Tangent" in microwaving Bacon gives one pause to wonder if it is OU also. :-) Enjoy your High Cholesterol Ala Hydrino-Hydride Breakfast, Mike . :-) Regards, Frederick > > Frederick Sparber said: > > > >Yes Indeed, Knuke. I baked a brick in the oven for several hours then let > >it cool overnight to room temperature, then microwave it to see if it would > >heat up. > >It stayed as cool as a a cucumber. I then soaked it for several hours and > >the microwaved it. In about 3-4 minutes it got so hot that I could barely > >handle it even with gloves on. :-) > > > >Regards, Frederick > > > A passing note: microwave ovens work by jerking polar molecules around by > the RF field inside. If the charges in a molecule are evenly distributed so > that it is electrically neutral on a small scale, it doesn't get hot in a > microwave. Water is one of the most strongly polar molecules around; the > oxygen is on one side and the two hydrogens on the other. As a result it has > a phenomenal dielectric constant (about 80, as I recall) and very strongly > responds to the RF fields in a microwave. So dry bricks stay cool and wet > bricks don't, and foods which contain lots of water get hot very readily. > The strongly polar aspect of the water molecule is probably related to the > strange properties of water, which is not a simple substance at all when > studied in detail. > > Mike Carrell > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 04:40:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA22268; Thu, 13 May 1999 04:37:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 04:37:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: exeter.city.ac.uk: remi owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:37:12 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO X-Sender: remi exeter To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: flux linkage and energy (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"UOFr51.0.oR5.rbhEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27312 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:22:08 +0100 (BST) From: Cornwall RO Reply-To: freenrg-l eskimo.com To: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: flux linkage and energy Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 03:22:18 -0700 Resent-From: freenrg-l eskimo.com (To a freenrg'er somewhat paraphraed) A generator is transformer action. Think about the simplest type, a bar magnet spining inside a coil. Consider the magnet as one huge dipole and we 'randomise it' by turning it so the flux is a t 90deg to coil's axis, flux through coil is now zero. Now draw an analogy: we create the magnet with minimal energy (align the dipoles) then randomise it whilst linking its flux to something useful... The work we do in creating the bar magnet goes towards the magnet's field energy, this is recouped when we destroy it. The analogy here is the with the cycle utilising the magnetocalorific effect - the excitor coil creates, then the heat destroys when it warms up again. Net zero electrical work in excitor coil. However when the magnet gets destroyed, 'randomised' it is exactly analogous to turning the magnet in the generator 90degs - zero net flux along the axis of the coil BUT it also links to other coils and so does work. Now my confusion about the field energy and the work turning the dipoles has been corrected, I can formulated this and finish the paper. QED. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 05:53:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA09220; Thu, 13 May 1999 05:48:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 05:48:54 -0700 From: "Ed Wall" To: Subject: RE: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:49:42 -0400 Message-ID: <000301be9d3f$125651e0$320a16cf computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <004001be9ce9$cdc4eaa0$238f85ce default> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"1ojWk2.0.-F2.seiEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27313 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Planet Vo, If oil shale is microwaved, the trapped water gets really hot and causes the layers of shale to swell up like a paperback that fell into the bathtub and was left to dry (only the shale gets a bunch of cracks running transverse to the layers). Huge quantity of natural gas comes off and oil runs out. And if you try this at home, your microwave and its surroundings blow up! The microwave energy goes into heating the water instead of rock, so it is an efficient method of getting fuel from oil shale. After the fuel is removed from the rock, it becomes relatively transparent to the energy, so it passes through to fresh shale. The nice bonus is that the long polymer hydrocarbon cracks under the conditions of RF stimulation and superheated moisture, producing oil that looks like it came from a Pennzoil can. No O/U studies have been done here, AFAIK, but the economics of it appear to be workable for oil above $20/barrel. We're not going to run out of oil any time soon. Ed Wall New Energy Research Laboratory Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Bow, NH 03302-2816 (603) 226-4822 fax 224-5975 > -----Original Message----- > From: Frederick Sparber [mailto:fjsparber earthlink.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 10:38 PM > To: vortex-l eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael T Huffman > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 8:02 PM > Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks > > Yes Indeed, Knuke. I baked a brick in the oven for several > hours then let > it cool overnight to room temperature, then microwave it to see > if it would > heat up. > It stayed as cool as a a cucumber. I then soaked it for several hours and > the microwaved it. In about 3-4 minutes it got so hot that I could barely > handle it even with gloves on. :-) > > Regards, Frederick > > > > Yo, > > > > >May 12, 1999 > > > > > >Frederick Sparber wrote of possible 'hot brick' CF experiment > procedure. > > > > > >I would be be proud to contribute toward the experiment. Let me toss a > > >brick with your address tag into the corner mailbox right away --- > > >return anonymonous. :) > > > > > >-ak- > > > > All the microwave kids on the FreeNRG list were doing this > > experiment a couple of years ago, actually. The calorimetry > was _really_ > > crude, as I recall, but they were reporting XS heat. Twas no > surprise to > > this reader. > > > > Knuke > > > > > > Michael T. Huffman > > Huffman Technology Company > > 1121 Dustin Drive > > Lady Lake, Florida 32159 > > (352)259-1276 > > knuke LCIA.COM > > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > > > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 06:01:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA11587; Thu, 13 May 1999 05:57:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 05:57:40 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990513085436.00e91a10 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:54:36 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks In-Reply-To: <002701be9d30$398103a0$1259ccd1 default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"REh_-2.0.vq2.4niEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27314 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:26 AM 5/13/99 -0400, Mike Carrell wrote: >A passing note: microwave ovens work by jerking polar molecules around by >the RF field inside. If the charges in a molecule are evenly distributed so >that it is electrically neutral on a small scale, it doesn't get hot in a >microwave. Water is one of the most strongly polar molecules around; the >oxygen is on one side and the two hydrogens on the other. As a result it has >a phenomenal dielectric constant (about 80, as I recall) and very strongly >responds to the RF fields in a microwave. So dry bricks stay cool and wet >bricks don't, and foods which contain lots of water get hot very readily. >The strongly polar aspect of the water molecule is probably related to the >strange properties of water, which is not a simple substance at all when >studied in detail. > >Mike Carrell Actually water has an electric dipole moment of only a few Debye. Collagen (making up skin, etc) has an electric dipole moment of thousands of Debye - which is why we develop fingers, etc. Water has a large dielectric constant because protons can inscribe a path along a directed electric field intensity; it is a poled ferroelectric. Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 07:24:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA05596; Thu, 13 May 1999 07:23:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 07:23:09 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:21:51 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:18:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: Speed of light at 38 MPH. Re: The World of Science In-reply-to: <001e01be9ce2$dbe7dc20$1f5bccd1 default> To: vortex-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:21:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2046ZXXOESGN7 X400-MTS-identifier: [;15120131509991/3730777 ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"6NC0Y.0.MN1.D1kEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27315 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vorts, This Bose guy, any relation to Dr. Bose the audio speaker wizard? >Bose-Einstein condensate experiment Bill webriggs concentric.net From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 08:25:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA25156; Thu, 13 May 1999 08:22:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:22:00 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Hydrinos Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:25:53 -0400 Message-ID: <19990513152553343.AAC282 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"dFXLT2.0.-86.NukEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27316 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ahoy! I thought I read in a post by Fred Sparber the other day that hydrinos had a mass that was approximately 1 millionth of an electron. How can that be? Did I mis-read this, or did you mean something else, or is this actually true, Fred? I don't recall this being mentioned in the Blacklight Power literature. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 09:16:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA14518; Thu, 13 May 1999 09:13:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:13:47 -0700 Message-ID: <001901be9d5b$24583d60$e5b4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <19990513152553343.AAC282 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Subject: Re: Hydrinos Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:08:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"bArkt3.0.mY3.welEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27317 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael T Huffman To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 9:25 AM Subject: Hydrinos Ahoy Yourself Matey! :-) I didn't say such a thing,start walking the Planck Constantly. I said Light Leptons such as Solar Neutrinos or AntiNeutrinos (Electron Neutrinos)have a rest mass thought by the Neutrino Chasers to be less than 0.5 ev, (which is one-millionth of the mass of the Electron) and otherNeutrino Chasers calculate it to be around 0.07 ev or less. It has spin (+/-)1/2, so logically it has charge (+/-) e = 1.6E19 Coulombs, or from a String Theory Model (+/-) e = CV (The Capacitance * The Potential of LENGTH-ONLY String Circle Particle, with Radius R = k*e^2/energy. This entity CAN BE ABSORBED BY A PROTON TO FORM THE HYDRINO GIVING OFF 13.6 EV, WITHOUT "FRACTIONAL ORBITS" and it will have an Electron Affinity of 0.75 ev, which allows it to form HYDRINO HYDRIDE, without rewriting the laws of Physics. Absorbed by a Deuteron it can cause it to "Strip" into a Proton or Hydrino and release the Neutron etc., and enter into Cold Fusion Reactions giving off the Neutrino and thus formation of He4 ,or transmutation of the heavy elements without the emission of killer radiation. Bon Voyage! Frederick > Ahoy! > > I thought I read in a post by Fred Sparber the other day that > hydrinos had a mass that was approximately 1 millionth of an electron. How > can that be? Did I mis-read this, or did you mean something else, or is > this actually true, Fred? I don't recall this being mentioned in the > Blacklight Power literature. > > Knuke > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > Lady Lake, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 09:36:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA23133; Thu, 13 May 1999 09:34:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:34:04 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 07:47:35 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: More from Mizuno Resent-Message-ID: <"3MATR1.0.Kf5.xxlEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27318 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:25 AM 5/13/99, Scott Little wrote: [snip] >Yes, in the proceedings of ICCF-7, on our web page under "Incandescent W" >and in a recent issue of IE, but basically it's a simple electrolysis cell >with a Pt anode (which is not damaged during operation) and a W >cathode....i.e. DC operation. K2CO3 electrolyte (made with light water) is >used. The likely source of oxygen at the cathode then I would think would be the carbonate radical. The heat of formation would thus be less, so there is a caloric excess. There is that mysterious carbon involvement yet again too! Claytor also saw an improvement in the anomalous operation of his type of cell when CO2 was introduced, so, whatever its role, it is not limited to protium reactions. Interesting also the effect of Si in various experiments that do not (intentionally) include CO2 or carbonic acid. In fact, Vince's quartz tube, for example, may be critical to his experiment. There have been various observations regarding the use of sodium metasilicate too. Hypothesis: valence 4 is a critical component for inducing CF, possibly due to the low angle between reactants in reactions occuring at the surface of the valence 4 atoms causing enhanced shielding and more head on momenta. The effect could possibly occur only as electrons change orbitals. Therefore, a highly repeated, low net chemical energy, exchange reaction would maximize the likelyhood of a nuclear reaction. The implied catalysis is obtained by getting an electron between two nuclear reactants on a highly regular basis due to the mechanics of a highly repeated reaction. Alternative hypothesis: valence 4 compunds, at least carbon and silicon compounds, are capable of comprising nanoformations of proton conductors that are instrumental in the formation of Bose condensates capable of catalysing nuclear reactions, as diuscussed at length here earlier. I am sorry that I will not be able to contribute anything much to discussion for some time to come due to my heavy personal schedule. My reading will probably be way behind as well. Have fun this summer. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 09:44:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA25732; Thu, 13 May 1999 09:40:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:40:12 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Thu, 13 May 1999 12:38:45 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Thu, 13 May 1999 12:39:55 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:17:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks In-reply-to: <19990513020233843.AAA174%mail.lcia.com lizard> To: vortex-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:38:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2048ZXXOI1ZGI X400-MTS-identifier: [;54832131509991/3731306 ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"OeUqU1.0.-H6.h1mEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27319 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Knuke, Did anyone by any chance check for Helium production? Several months ago someone said something about putting aluminum foil in a microwave and looking at the arc pitting. Perhaps under a microscope? They said the pitting looked like atomic cratering? Has anyone tested aluminum foil submerged in water and placed in a microwave? Based on the before & after temperature of the water you could then calculate the amount of energy added to the water -vs- the wattage used by the microwave. Then check for helium. Bill webriggs concentric.net >Yes Indeed, Knuke. I baked a brick in the oven for several hours then let >it cool overnight to room temperature, then microwave it to see if it would >heat up. >It stayed as cool as a a cucumber. I then soaked it for several hours and >the microwaved it. In about 3-4 minutes it got so hot that I could barely >handle it even with gloves on. :-) >Regards, Frederick >> All the microwave kids on the FreeNRG list were doing this >>experiment a couple of years ago, actually. The calorimetry was _really_ >>crude, as I recall, but they were reporting XS heat. Twas no surprise to >>this reader. >> >>Knuke >>Michael T. Huffman From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 11:54:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA13005; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:50:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:50:19 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Hydrinos Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:54:05 -0400 Message-ID: <19990513185405578.AAA195 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"fSThz.0.7B3.gxnEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27320 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred wrote: >Ahoy Yourself Matey! :-) > >I didn't say such a thing,start walking the Planck Constantly. Hi Fred, Thanks for the excellent comeback. This whole mechanism is becoming much clearer to me now. There may need to be an ionization phase of the H molecule for these types of absorbtions and reformations to occur, but that can accomplished many ways. Not having any formal training in nuclear physics, I was having trouble seeing how this lower energy state could be accomplished without the addition of an anti-neutrino, all along. This is a pretty good theory. Hard to Starboard, Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 12:07:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA17733; Thu, 13 May 1999 12:05:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:05:29 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000301be9d3f$125651e0$320a16cf computer> References: <004001be9ce9$cdc4eaa0$238f85ce default> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:04:30 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: RE: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Resent-Message-ID: <"m8SRR3.0.xK4.v9oEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27322 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Planet Vo, > >If oil shale is microwaved, the trapped water gets really hot and causes the >layers of shale to swell up like a paperback that fell into the bathtub and >was left to dry (only the shale gets a bunch of cracks running transverse to >the layers). Huge quantity of natural gas comes off and oil runs out. And >if you try this at home, your microwave and its surroundings blow up! > >The microwave energy goes into heating the water instead of rock, so it is >an efficient method of getting fuel from oil shale. After the fuel is >removed from the rock, it becomes relatively transparent to the energy, so >it passes through to fresh shale. The nice bonus is that the long polymer >hydrocarbon cracks under the conditions of RF stimulation and superheated >moisture, producing oil that looks like it came from a Pennzoil can. > >No O/U studies have been done here, AFAIK, but the economics of it appear to >be workable for oil above $20/barrel. We're not going to run out of oil any >time soon. ***{Especially since oil is produced by microbes. About 20 years ago I placed a pretty piece of layered sandstone in my aquarium. The layers were alternately dark gray and very light brown. After about 6 months in the aquarium--which was a 75 gallon tank with a metal frame--the rock was totally soaked with a gunk that looked and smelled like crude oil. I concluded at that time that the dark streaks in the rock must have contained some sort of oil producing microorganisms and that most oil deposits are *not* the result of squeezing prehistoric plant material under tons of overlying rock, as is commonly supposed. Nothing I have seen since then has served to alter that opinion. --Mitchell Jones}*** > >Ed Wall > >New Energy Research Laboratory >Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Bow, NH 03302-2816 >(603) 226-4822 fax 224-5975 > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Frederick Sparber [mailto:fjsparber earthlink.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 10:38 PM >> To: vortex-l eskimo.com >> Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Michael T Huffman >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 8:02 PM >> Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks >> >> Yes Indeed, Knuke. I baked a brick in the oven for several >> hours then let >> it cool overnight to room temperature, then microwave it to see >> if it would >> heat up. >> It stayed as cool as a a cucumber. I then soaked it for several hours and >> the microwaved it. In about 3-4 minutes it got so hot that I could barely >> handle it even with gloves on. :-) >> >> Regards, Frederick >> >> >> > Yo, >> > >> > >May 12, 1999 >> > > >> > >Frederick Sparber wrote of possible 'hot brick' CF experiment >> procedure. >> > > >> > >I would be be proud to contribute toward the experiment. Let me toss a >> > >brick with your address tag into the corner mailbox right away --- >> > >return anonymonous. :) >> > > >> > >-ak- >> > >> > All the microwave kids on the FreeNRG list were doing this >> > experiment a couple of years ago, actually. The calorimetry >> was _really_ >> > crude, as I recall, but they were reporting XS heat. Twas no >> surprise to >> > this reader. >> > >> > Knuke >> > >> > >> > Michael T. Huffman >> > Huffman Technology Company >> > 1121 Dustin Drive >> > Lady Lake, Florida 32159 >> > (352)259-1276 >> > knuke LCIA.COM >> > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm >> > >> > >> >> From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 12:08:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA18211; Thu, 13 May 1999 12:06:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:06:14 -0700 Message-ID: <004601be9d73$3b6dbd00$e5b4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: Subject: Re: More from Mizuno Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:01:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"5g_bA.0.TS4.bAoEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27323 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Horace Heffner To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 10:47 AM Subject: Re: More from Mizuno Horace wrote: [Snip] > > There is that mysterious carbon involvement yet again too! Claytor also > saw an improvement in the anomalous operation of his type of cell when CO2 > was introduced, so, whatever its role, it is not limited to protium reactions. Interesting thing about CO2 and K2CO3 in H2O, Horace: 1, K2CO3aq + H2O + CO2 ----> 2 KHCO3aq 2, KHCO3aq ----> K+ + HCO3 - 3, HCO3- + H2O <----> H2CO3aq + OH- 4, HCO3- <----> CO3 = + H+ 5, H+ + OH- <----> H2O Regards, Frederick > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 12:10:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA16547; Thu, 13 May 1999 12:03:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:03:43 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:07:22 -0400 Message-ID: <19990513190722875.AAA195 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"0MElv1.0.L24.E8oEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27321 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill wrote: >Did anyone by any chance check for Helium production? > >Several months ago someone said something about putting aluminum foil in a >microwave and looking at the arc pitting. Perhaps under a microscope? They >said the pitting looked like atomic cratering? > >Has anyone tested aluminum foil submerged in water and placed in a microwave? >Based on the before & after temperature of the water you could then calculate >the amount of energy added to the water -vs- the wattage used by the microwave. > >Then check for helium. > >Bill >webriggs concentric.net Hi Bill, Not to my recollection. These were mainly kids and amateurs, like myself, that have no access to the kind of equipment that would identify helium, although I do know one of the experimenters, and he does have a microscope. Like I said, this was done with bricks, and I don't remember anyone doing it with aluminum. They then went on to microwave grapes and burning candles to observe ball lightning. Myself, I need my microwave for cooking, and don't want to destroy it, and the safety concerns bother me as well. That kind of experimentation should be done in a well equipped lab, and observed with cameras instead of watching through the window, IMHO. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 13:26:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA08772; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:24:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:24:31 -0700 Message-ID: <006401be9d7e$2a14d100$e5b4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <004001be9ce9$cdc4eaa0$238f85ce default> Subject: Re: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:20:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"_7YUt2.0.v82.-JpEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27324 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Mitchell Jones To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 1:04 PM Subject: RE: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks Yes Indeed Mitchell. They skim oil from the surface of the Dead Sea made by photosynthesis and microbes, Also from the surface of that huge inland fresh water sea in Russia. Forget the name of it. Regards, Frederick > > ***{Especially since oil is produced by microbes. About 20 years ago I > placed a pretty piece of layered sandstone in my aquarium. The layers were > alternately dark gray and very light brown. After about 6 months in the > aquarium--which was a 75 gallon tank with a metal frame--the rock was > totally soaked with a gunk that looked and smelled like crude oil. I > concluded at that time that the dark streaks in the rock must have > contained some sort of oil producing microorganisms and that most oil > deposits are *not* the result of squeezing prehistoric plant material under > tons of overlying rock, as is commonly supposed. Nothing I have seen since > then has served to alter that opinion. --Mitchell Jones}*** > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 14:45:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA26557; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:41:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:41:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990513174026.007a4c30 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 17:40:26 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com, mizuno@athena.qe.eng.hokudai.ac.jp From: Jed Rothwell Subject: New paper from Mizuno Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"fUObG.0.tU6.FSqEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27325 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mizuno sent me 12 pages of the body text from a paper he is writing about plasma electrolysis experiments. I'm not sure who his coauthors are, but he includes a long list of people and corporations in the acknowledgments so he must have helpful collaborators. I think they are the same people who did the mass spec work in previous experiments, with EDX, EPMA and SIMS. The paper includes a lot of specific details which I will relay to Scott Little and others as soon as soon as I am able. Here are a few details for Scott right off the bat: the paper specifies a quartz glass container. It does not say why, but I expect at these temperatures other cell material may be damaged, contaminating the electrolyte. For electrolyte, filtered Milli-Q pure water, and 99.75% pure heavy water (Showa Denko) was employed. I'm not sure where the heavy water fits in the picture. The paper consists of six sections: 1. Abstract 2. Introduction 3. Experiment 3.1 Electrolysis system, and calorimetry 3.2 Electrolyte and materials preparation 3.3 Electrolysis technique 3.4 Neutron detection (fast neutron measurements) 3.5 Post run cathode surface analysis 4. Results 4.1 Heat measurements 4.2 Nuclear product analysis 4.3 Neutron measurement results 5.0 Discussion 5.1 Neutrons 5.2 Heat generation 5.3 Educted elements 6.0 Footnotes (20 refs) Section 3.3 describes the phenomenon that Scott discussed here this morning in which the current drops abruptly when certain conditions are met and gas sheath forms around the cathode. Two references from the 1950s describe the electrochemical aspects of the phenomenon. Section 4.1 describes the use of the electrolyte temperature to monitor and control the experiment in real-time. Many sample runs are described. In the first one, voltage was increased and the flow rate decreased in steps. Changes occurred at 67 ~ 77 degrees. At second 2000, electrolyte temperature exceeds 85 degrees and the phenomenon begins to turn on. Amperage suddenly drops and input power fluctuations radically decrease. Excess heat begins to show up, and the control parameters were fine tuned to enhance it. It continued for another 3000 seconds. Cumulative excess heat was 312 kJ, peak excess power was 210% of input. This illustrates the importance of a fast response calorimeter with a low thermal mass. Temperature is used to control the phenomenon minute by minute. As I have often said, the calorimeter is an integral part of the experiment and if it is not designed correctly the experiment fails. (Okay, Fleischmann said it; I echoed it.) Mizuno emphasizes that if you do not see an unusual pattern of events -- a sudden drop in amperage followed by stable power -- you will not see the excess heat phenomena. Mizuno says the flow calorimetry data is not analyzed until after the experiment. It seems to me he should convert to a real-time system in which input and output energy are displayed on the screen graphically at 10 second intervals, allowing him to see the moment when output exceeds input. As the experiment is now set up, he watches for the onset of the plasma (which you cannot miss), and he monitors electrolyte temperature in real-time, adjusting it by reducing or increasing the cooling water flow rate. The Delta T temperature (outlet minus inlet) is considerably higher than in most experiments, and higher than the textbooks recommend. Accuracy must be sacrificed because the flow controls the experiment. I do not have the graphs and figures described in the text, and I have not read the paper careful enough, but I gather a step-by-step method for creating and maintaining the plasma can be described. I will try to do that. The method is not easy, it does not always work, it does not produce the same power level every time, and the plasma fades as soon as you stop tweaking the instruments. Based on Mizuno's description of the control parameters and the videos I've seen, it takes practice, attention, and four hands. Sort of like juggling chainsaws. Obviously, in a practical energy system, the control would have to be automated. You would not want to spend all your time in the basement playing with your furnace like a pinball machine. Tilt! Kaboom! I reported different concentrations of electrolyte and other varying details. Sure enough, the paper describes different experiments at different concentrations with cathodes of various different sizes and shapes. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 15:48:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05042; Thu, 13 May 1999 15:45:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:45:23 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <006401be9d7e$2a14d100$e5b4bfa8 default> References: <004001be9ce9$cdc4eaa0$238f85ce default> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 17:43:15 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Humans as Vampires Resent-Message-ID: <"sYmdC2.0.fE1.2OrEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27326 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Mitchell Jones >To: >Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 1:04 PM >Subject: RE: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks > >Yes Indeed Mitchell. They skim oil from the surface of the Dead Sea made by >photosynthesis and microbes, Also from the surface of that huge inland fresh >water sea in Russia. Forget the name of it. > >Regards, Frederick ***{In the same vein, I have also read a number of stories over the years about depleted oil wells that were capped after being "pumped out," and, magically, when reopened 20 or 30 years later seemed to have been magically replenished! The crucial question which must be asked, in order to render the microbe theory biologically plausible, is this: in what way could it be advantageous for a microorganism to dump out as "waste" a material with such a high energy content? Only one answer is possible: oil isn't waste, but rather is a stored form of energy similar to the fat in the human body. But, in that case, how could it be advantageous for an organism to store energy in a form usable by other, competitive organisms? The only possible answer is the same as the one that applies in the human body: there must be some sort of defense mechanism to either kill or drive away such organisms--something analogous to the body's immune system. But, in that case, it would seem to follow that all--or virtually all--of the oil producing microbes in an oil field must have the same DNA--that is, the community of such organisms in an oil field must be, in effect, a single organism in much the way that a beehive or an ant colony, or certain types of gigantic fungi (that underlie many square miles of land) are a single organism. But, if that is so, then such communities would be--by far--the largest organisms on the planet, and when we pump oil from the ground, the procedure is analogous to the "fat sucking vampire" on one of the old X-Files episodes. Humans, therefore, are oil sucking vampires! Food for thought? :-) --Mitchell Jones}*** >> >> ***{Especially since oil is produced by microbes. About 20 years ago I >> placed a pretty piece of layered sandstone in my aquarium. The layers were >> alternately dark gray and very light brown. After about 6 months in the >> aquarium--which was a 75 gallon tank with a metal frame--the rock was >> totally soaked with a gunk that looked and smelled like crude oil. I >> concluded at that time that the dark streaks in the rock must have >> contained some sort of oil producing microorganisms and that most oil >> deposits are *not* the result of squeezing prehistoric plant material >under >> tons of overlying rock, as is commonly supposed. Nothing I have seen since >> then has served to alter that opinion. --Mitchell Jones}*** >> From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 16:41:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA19446; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:38:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 16:38:39 -0700 Message-ID: <008001be9d99$45a745e0$e5b4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <004001be9ce9$cdc4eaa0$238f85ce default> Subject: Re: Humans as Vampires Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 17:35:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"ngqzI2.0.il4.-9sEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27327 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Mitchell Jones To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 4:43 PM Subject: Humans as Vampires Interesting theory, Mitchell, and it Sucks! :-) Regards, Frederick > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Mitchell Jones > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 1:04 PM > >Subject: RE: Cold Fusion and Hot Bricks > > > >Yes Indeed Mitchell. They skim oil from the surface of the Dead Sea made by > >photosynthesis and microbes, Also from the surface of that huge inland fresh > >water sea in Russia. Forget the name of it. > > > >Regards, Frederick > > ***{In the same vein, I have also read a number of stories over the years > about depleted oil wells that were capped after being "pumped out," and, > magically, when reopened 20 or 30 years later seemed to have been magically > replenished! > > The crucial question which must be asked, in order to render the microbe > theory biologically plausible, is this: in what way could it be > advantageous for a microorganism to dump out as "waste" a material with > such a high energy content? Only one answer is possible: oil isn't waste, > but rather is a stored form of energy similar to the fat in the human body. > But, in that case, how could it be advantageous for an organism to store > energy in a form usable by other, competitive organisms? The only possible > answer is the same as the one that applies in the human body: there must be > some sort of defense mechanism to either kill or drive away such > organisms--something analogous to the body's immune system. But, in that > case, it would seem to follow that all--or virtually all--of the oil > producing microbes in an oil field must have the same DNA--that is, the > community of such organisms in an oil field must be, in effect, a single > organism in much the way that a beehive or an ant colony, or certain types > of gigantic fungi (that underlie many square miles of land) are a single > organism. But, if that is so, then such communities would be--by far--the > largest organisms on the planet, and when we pump oil from the ground, the > procedure is analogous to the "fat sucking vampire" on one of the old > X-Files episodes. Humans, therefore, are oil sucking vampires! > > Food for thought? :-) > > --Mitchell Jones}*** > > >> > >> ***{Especially since oil is produced by microbes. About 20 years ago I > >> placed a pretty piece of layered sandstone in my aquarium. The layers were > >> alternately dark gray and very light brown. After about 6 months in the > >> aquarium--which was a 75 gallon tank with a metal frame--the rock was > >> totally soaked with a gunk that looked and smelled like crude oil. I > >> concluded at that time that the dark streaks in the rock must have > >> contained some sort of oil producing microorganisms and that most oil > >> deposits are *not* the result of squeezing prehistoric plant material > >under > >> tons of overlying rock, as is commonly supposed. Nothing I have seen since > >> then has served to alter that opinion. --Mitchell Jones}*** > >> > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 17:46:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA02908; Thu, 13 May 1999 17:45:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 17:45:26 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrinos Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 00:44:50 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <374170a2.73717150 mail-hub> References: <19990513152553343.AAC282 mail.lcia.com@lizard> <001901be9d5b$24583d60$e5b4bfa8@default> In-Reply-To: <001901be9d5b$24583d60$e5b4bfa8 default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA02876 Resent-Message-ID: <"q8_YO1.0.Dj.b8tEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27328 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 13 May 1999 10:08:48 -0600, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] >I didn't say such a thing,start walking the Planck Constantly. I said Light >Leptons such as Solar Neutrinos or AntiNeutrinos (Electron Neutrinos)have a >rest mass thought by the Neutrino Chasers to be less than 0.5 ev, (which is >one-millionth of the mass of the Electron) and otherNeutrino Chasers >calculate it to be around 0.07 ev or less. [snip] Hi Frederick, Given the very small mass, pair forming should be a common occurrence. One might therefore expect vast numbers of "hydrinos" to be formed anywhere that bare protons exist, such as in acids (yes I do know about H3O+). This being the case, why are nuclear reactions not also common under these circumstances? I.e. how come I can hold a bottle of acid in my hand without it exploding from the nuclear energy release? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 18:49:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA17384; Thu, 13 May 1999 18:48:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 18:48:01 -0700 Message-ID: <000201be9dab$5bc5a300$a4b4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <19990513152553343.AAC282 mail.lcia.com@lizard> <001901be9d5b$24583d60$e5b4bfa8@default> <374170a2.73717150@mail-hub> Subject: Re: Hydrinos Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:36:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"RMWMl3.0.YF4.H3uEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27329 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 6:44 PM Subject: Re: Hydrinos Hi Robin, you wrote: [snip] > Hi Frederick, > > Given the very small mass, pair forming should be a common occurrence. So should formation of "fractional orbits" in the presence of free protons/deuterons and electrons at a pH of 7.0,or less, in tapwater. :-) As stated earlier, gathering by Case and Ohmuri&Mizuno apparently there is a very sharp Resonance Temperature/Energy at around 500 Kelvin that satisfies dE = h/dt where the pairs form and are "absorbed" by the proton or deuteron and shrunk along with the electron to form the composite entity. Miss that point and you just have more Neutrinos and Antineutrinos that mutually annihilate or join the rest of the bunch floating around the Universe. OTOH, if the Neutral Composite is formed it can react with about any other atom and do the CF/OU/Transmutation stuff with the Neutrinos carrying off the energy and "thermalized" within about a micron or less, where they May catalyze further reactions somewhat like Muon Catalyzed Fusion. > One might therefore expect vast numbers of "hydrinos" to be formed > anywhere that bare protons exist, such as in acids (yes I do know about > H3O+). H3O+ has a lifetime of about 1.0E-13 seconds, btw. > >This being the case, why are nuclear reactions not also common > under these circumstances? I.e. how come I can hold a bottle of acid in > my hand without it exploding from the nuclear energy release? Good Idea, Robin! Try holding a constant boiling solution of HCl/H2O or DCl/D2O in your hand at around 500-550 Kelvin or so (~ 800 PSIG) and see what happens. :-) Regards, Frederick > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 18:56:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA19176; Thu, 13 May 1999 18:53:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 18:53:03 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: To kill a tornado Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 01:52:29 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3742807d.77778049 mail-hub> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA19158 Resent-Message-ID: <"63zOG3.0.Yh4._7uEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27330 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If the pressure inside a tornado is lower than ambient, then it might be possible to "short circuit" the differential by placing a horizontal section of large diameter pipe of some length in the path of the tornado. The pipe would then form a conduit between the outside high pressure air, and the inside low pressure air. Air sucked in through the pipe would tend to neutralise the pressure difference, causing the tornado to expand at the bottom and slow its rotation (conservation of angular momentum). If it slowed sufficiently (long pipe), it might dissipate altogether. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 19:41:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA31207; Thu, 13 May 1999 19:40:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:40:41 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrinos Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 02:40:07 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <37438cc8.80925284 mail-hub> References: <19990513152553343.AAC282 mail.lcia.com@lizard> <001901be9d5b$24583d60$e5b4bfa8@default> <374170a2.73717150@mail-hub> <000201be9dab$5bc5a300$a4b4bfa8@default> In-Reply-To: <000201be9dab$5bc5a300$a4b4bfa8 default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA31189 Resent-Message-ID: <"GlxaV2.0.Xd7.equEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27331 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 13 May 1999 19:36:08 -0600, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] >Good Idea, Robin! Try holding a constant boiling solution of HCl/H2O or >DCl/D2O in your hand at around 500-550 Kelvin or so (~ 800 PSIG) and see >what happens. :-) [snip] Knowing me, I'd burn my hand, then drop it on my foot ;^). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 13 22:27:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA06488; Thu, 13 May 1999 22:26:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:26:20 -0700 From: Chuck Davis To: Michael Schaffer Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:26:07 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19990506035122.21734.rocketmail web120.yahoomail.com> X-Mailer: YAM 1.3.5 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck Organization: ROSHI Corporation Subject: Re: Toups Aquafuel filing for Dominican Republic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"BsuO3.0.Eb1.yFxEt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27332 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I was just wondering if there would be any difference if this device used D2O? On 05-May-99, Michael Schaffer, wrote: >At >http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1056748/0001056748-98-000030.txt >the copy of the Contract between Toups Technology Licensing, Inc. and >Compania De Luz Y Fuerza De Las Terrenas contains the following definition: > "Giga watt One Million Mega Watts" >Someone is going to have a 1000-fold surprise on this deal! >=== >Michael J. Schaffer -- .-. .-. / \ .-. .-. / \ / \ / \ .-. _ .-. / \ / \ -/--Chuck Davis -------\-----/---\---/-\---/---\-----/-----\-------/-------\-- RoshiCorp ROSHI.com \ / \_/ `-' \ / \ / \ / `-' `-' \ / `-' `-' http://www.post-trauma.com/roshi.html http://www.Starsaga.com/biofeedback.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 14 06:33:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA32742; Fri, 14 May 1999 06:32:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 06:32:57 -0700 Message-ID: <000501be9e0d$d5b7ab60$268f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Hydrinos Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 07:28:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"DP9Mc3.0.W_7.9O2Ft" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27333 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For your platter, Knuke. Assume that a String Circle Length-Only Particle (Light Lepton) has a rest mass/energy of 6.23E-38 kg/0.035 ev. It's Radius, R = k*q^2/[0.035*1.6E-19] = 4.1E-8 meters or 411 Angstroms. It's charge is - 1.6E-19 Coulombs, spin 1/2. When it comes into the field of a proton or deuteron whose potential at the classical Bohr Radius 5,29E-11 meters: V = k*q/5.29E-11 = 1.44E-9/5.29E-11 = 27.22 volts. Since the relativistic mass Mrel of the lepton = Mo[(27.22/0.035) +1] = 778.71*6.23E-38 = 4.852E-35 kg, provided by the potential of the proton or deuteron which "shrinks" the String-Circle Lepton to a new radius: R= k*q^2/ (27.22*1.6E-19) = 5.29E-11 meters the Classical Bohr Radius. Now to equate the balance of Centripetal Force, Fc with Electrostatic Force Fes: Fc = Mrel*c^2/R = Fes = k*q^2/R^2: Fc = 4.852E-35*c^2/5.29E-11 = 8.243E-8 newtons Fes = k*q^2/R^2 = 2.304E-28/(5.29E-11)^2 = 8.233E-8 newtons Close enough? :-) But there is an electron that belonged to the proton that can only have an attachment energy of about 0.75 ev (the Electron Affinity for H or D) and also the other H or D atom that wants to make the H2 or D2 Molecule. When these attach you have "Hydrino Hydride" etc., with some very interesting possibilities, but without any New Physics Laws. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 14 11:12:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA19880; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:10:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:10:36 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:09:12 EDT Subject: Re: More from Mizuno (W&H) To: vortex-L eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"pRwqQ3.0.Us4.SS6Ft" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27334 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990511235355.00688414 pop.mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:53:55 -0400, Jed Rothwell wrote "Perhaps we have a Goldilocks problem: our tungsten is too soft, Little's is too hard, O&M's is ju-u-u-s-t right, so it absorbs hydrogen (?) and reacts." How good a hydrogen absorber is tungsten? Doesn't the action in an Ohmori plasma electrolysis cell take place in the area immediately around the cathode? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 14 11:28:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA27004; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:26:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:26:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990514132808.00bff8fc mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:28:08 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: More from Mizuno (W&H) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Sofz31.0.sb6.Rh6Ft" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27335 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 14:09 5/14/99 EDT, Tstolper aol.com wrote: >Doesn't the action in an Ohmori plasma electrolysis cell take place in the >area immediately around the cathode? To be sure, some action does take place around the cathode...namely the arc discharges across the vapor sheath that surrounds the cathode. The real question is, what's happening in this cell to produce excess heat? I really have no idea but my guess is that it is not H-H fusion inside the W cathode. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 14 11:37:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA30560; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:35:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:35:57 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990514143553.007b9100 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:35:53 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: More from Mizuno (W&H) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"iGJcd1.0.PT7.Dq6Ft" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27336 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Stolper writes: >How good a hydrogen absorber is tungsten? I don't know. Not very good I suppose, but any metal will absorb some quantity of hydrogen, and any metal can be made to absorb more, or less; viz. "spongy nickel." >Doesn't the action in an Ohmori plasma electrolysis cell take place in the >area immediately around the cathode? Well, the plasma forms around the cathode, but apparently nuclear transmutations occur inside the metal, as they do with Pd and Au CF. Work on this has just begun. This paper I am translating describes mass spec analyses with EDX, EPMA and SIMS by Mizuno, Ohmori, and technicians at the same companies that did the Au analysis described in the book. I do not have the graphs showing the results so I am not sure what the conclusions are. Before electrolysis they do a careful inventory of contaminants. After electrolysis and the cathodes are rigorously cleaned with methods which I expect will effectively remove galvanized materials and some of the original surface layers too. The cathodes are washed in pure water, dried, and then placed in an acetone bath in an ultrasonic cleaner. I do not know how long. Anyway, I am still working on this. I should not talk about it too much or I will make some embarrassing mistake in the translation before Mizuno has a chance to correct me, and I'll cause confusion and have to retract. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 14 11:52:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA01949; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:50:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:50:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990514145031.007bf940 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:50:31 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: More from Mizuno (W&H) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990514132808.00bff8fc mail.eden.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"MDjDq.0.NU.x17Ft" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27337 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little writes: >The real >question is, what's happening in this cell to produce excess heat? Probably a cold fusion (LENR) reaction. >I >really have no idea but my guess is that it is not H-H fusion inside the W >cathode. That's a strange guess! I cannot imagine why anyone would reach that conclusion. In all other known examples of LENR, the effect has been convincingly proved to occur in the metal lattice, usually near the surface. Why should this one be different? Anyway, the evidence for transmutations in the W, and the neutron studies peformed by Akimoto in this study point to a nuclear reaction similar to the ones found in other metals. The neutron work is much better than original, crude estimates made with a BF3 counter when this work was originally reported at ICCF7. Mike Schaffer, Srinivasan and others critisized it, as I recall. I think they will be happier with Akimoto's liquid scintilator detector. They say it is described in detail in Ref 16: T. Mizuno et al., Electrochemistry, 57, No. 7 (1998, I think). So you can read about it now. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 14 12:37:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA13422; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:35:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:35:44 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990514153553.007a5c50 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:35:53 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: More from Mizuno (W&H) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990514145031.007bf940 pop.mindspring.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19990514132808.00bff8fc mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"PsAyK2.0.WH3.Gi7Ft" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27338 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wrote: >>I >>really have no idea but my guess is that it is not H-H fusion inside the W >>cathode. > >That's a strange guess! I cannot imagine why anyone would reach that >conclusion. In all other known examples of LENR, the effect has been >convincingly proved to occur in the metal lattice, usually near the >surface. I meant the effect is not happening in the plasma itself. It does appear to be inside the W cathode. It may not be H-H fusion -- I wouldn't know about that! Another reason to doubt that it is occuring in the plasma is the fact that when you increase voltage above the critical level, the plasma glows more brightly but the excess heat effect extinguishes. They say "we have not measured the precise increase in brightness, but it is readily observable to the naked eye." No doubt the plasma plays a role in this, because the excess heat does not appear without plasma. Plasma is necessary but not sufficient. You also need the temperature above 85 deg C, and the strangely quiescent low voltage low power input. I am still working through other conditions. For example, the effect is seen when a foil cathode is at 1000 deg C, but not when a wire cathode is at 1400 to 1500 deg C (where temperatures are estimated based on the light, or emmissivity I guess it is). So the cathode temperature and geometry are also control parameters, along with the electrolyte temperature. It is pretty complicated, as I said, and as always there are many, many ways to botch it. I have an unfair advantage here. I should shut up and translate this so that others will know what I know. People who know what a POPOP 2-5-phenyloxazolyl>benzene wavelength shifter will know a great deal more than I do. Akimoto will have to make sure I get it right. He and Mizuno do not write or speak English well but they can check my translation, fortunately. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 14 13:19:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA24644; Fri, 14 May 1999 13:18:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:18:32 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990514152012.00c01724 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:20:12 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: More from Mizuno (W&H) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990514153553.007a5c50 pop.mindspring.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19990514145031.007bf940 pop.mindspring.com> <3.0.1.32.19990514132808.00bff8fc mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"zbJoC.0.z06.OK8Ft" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27339 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 15:35 5/14/99 -0400, Jed Rothwell wrote: >Another reason to doubt that it is occuring in the plasma is the fact >that when you increase voltage above the critical level, the plasma glows >more brightly but the excess heat effect extinguishes. This info is most encouraging to me. I know you're busy xlating but do they give a value for this critical voltage level? It's particularly pertinent to me right now because I'm acquiring a hefty regulated DC supply for this experiment. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 14 13:32:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30001; Fri, 14 May 1999 13:29:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:29:37 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990514153116.00bfde3c mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:31:16 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Fire from Water Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"J1YV6.0.hK7.nU8Ft" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27340 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have just finished viewing Fire from Water, the new video put together by Gene, et al from Infinite Energy. I am favorably impressed by this effort. Congratulations on the inclusion of statements from Huizinga and Morrison...and the overall dignified tone of the presentation. This video should succeed in turning a few heads towards CF research. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 14 15:17:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10683; Fri, 14 May 1999 15:16:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:16:37 -0700 Message-ID: <373CA09C.613AA6DD ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:16:03 -0600 From: Edmund Storms Organization: Energy K System X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: source of heat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uNwvl1.0.rc2.53AFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27341 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all speculators, Speculations about the source of excess heat in the Mizuno cell should consider the similarity of this work to the LENT-1 cell. This method also produces transmutation products within a plasma discharge which occurs through a renewed zirconium oxide film. I suggest the nuclear action in all plasma discharge devices is caused by action of electron clusters as discovered by Ken Shoulders. These clusters would form within sparks which pass through the insulating layer. Therefore, the effect is not exactly ":cold fusion" as seen in a Pd-D2O cell but a different phenomenon. This phenomenon would be expected whenever a plasma penetrated a dielectric layer on a metal. In the Mizuno case, the dielectric layer is tungsten oxide. He should see the same effect using Zr or any other element which forms a stable, insulating oxide. Failure to see the effect would occur when conditions prevented formation of an oxide layer or when conditions caused the layer to be destroyed too quickly. In the case of tungsten, if the temperature were too high at the tungsten surface, WO3 would vaporize away before an insulating layer could form. The rapid loss of tungsten as experienced during several failures is consistent with this explanation. Ed Storms From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 14 15:40:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA15331; Fri, 14 May 1999 15:36:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:36:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199905142235.SAA12419 mercury.mv.net> Subject: Re: Fire from Water Date: Fri, 14 May 99 18:35:11 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" , "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"4GmXq3.0.Nl3.yLAFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27342 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I have just finished viewing Fire from Water, the new video put together by >Gene, et al from Infinite Energy. I am favorably impressed by this effort. > Congratulations on the inclusion of statements from Huizinga and >Morrison...and the overall dignified tone of the presentation. This video >should succeed in turning a few heads towards CF research. Thank you, Scott. You are a gentleman and a scholar even if we have had our disagreements from time to time. We hope the video does turn a few heads, raise a few eyebrows, and generally gets people focussed on going forward with this research, which is so underfunded and despised. Best wishes, Gene Mallove From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 14 23:53:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA18251; Fri, 14 May 1999 23:52:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 23:52:44 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990515015625.008ede30 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 01:56:25 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: source of heat, charge clusters In-Reply-To: <373CA09C.613AA6DD ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"06aOX2.0.5T4.ycHFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27343 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:16 PM 5/14/99 -0600, Edmund Storms wrote: >I suggest the nuclear action in >all plasma discharge devices is caused by action of electron clusters as >discovered by Ken Shoulders. These clusters would form within sparks >which pass through the insulating layer. This is the sort of thing I've been thinking about as well, Ed. Further, there is a reasonable mechanism for real nuclear reactions accompanying such charge clusters. Shoulders has already proposed this mechanism, I believe. It goes as follows: A charge cluster (~10^10 electrons) ionizes atoms that it passes in transit from cathode to anode and then captures the nuclei of those atoms by simple Coulombic attraction. Assuming that it captures relatively few nuclei so that the total mass of nucleons is still much lower than the mass of electrons in the cluster, and further assuming that the mean free path of this assemblage is sufficiently large that it can accelerate essentially as a ballistic particle from cathode to anode, then the attached nuclei will arrive at the anode with a kinetic energy nearly equal to that of an electron accelerated thru the applied potential MULTIPLIED by the ratio of the nuclei mass to that of a single electron. For example, if a charge cluster flies across a gap with an applied potential of 2000 volts and picks up some deuterons along the way, the captured deuterons will arrive at the anode with about 7 MeV of energy (i.e. 3672 * 2000 eV). We are presently conducting a search for evidence of such nuclear reactions here at EarthTech. We are using a gas system in which the conditions are as given in the example above. The anode is a deuterated Pd sheet (stable at about 0.55 D/Pd for the last month!). We are exploring a large parameter space varying deuterium gas pressure in the chamber all the way from ~10^-6 torr up to ~1/2 atm (like Claytor's experiment). We're using a fast neutron detector to look for evidence of conventional D+D fusion when the clusters smash into the deuterated anode. Presently, everything about this experiment is working pretty well...except we have never seen any neutron signals!...at least none that are coincident with the spark discharges, which presumably contain the charge clusters. The main reason we built the Farnswort Fusor recently was to learn to detect neutrons for this experiment. As a result of that successful effort, we do know what a neutron signal looks like...and we also know NOT to try to detect low levels of neutrons with a 3He counter. We're using a plastic scintillator (Bicron BC-720) which works by detecting the scintillation (with a PM tube) caused by recoil protons created by the incident fast neutrons. It has an overall efficiency of 0.6% for 2.45 Mev neutrons...about 100 times better than the 3He counter we tried (borrowed from Dennis Letts). Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 15 03:57:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA32418; Sat, 15 May 1999 03:55:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 03:55:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990515065228.00ccfe20 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 06:52:28 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990515015625.008ede30 mail.eden.com> References: <373CA09C.613AA6DD ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ytFxo2.0.Ow7.nALFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27344 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >At 04:16 PM 5/14/99 -0600, Edmund Storms wrote: >>I suggest the nuclear action in >>all plasma discharge devices is caused by action of electron clusters as >>discovered by Ken Shoulders. These clusters would form within sparks >>which pass through the insulating layer. > At 01:56 AM 5/15/99 -0500, Scott Little wrote: >This is the sort of thing I've been thinking about as well, Ed. Further, >there is a reasonable mechanism for real nuclear reactions accompanying >such charge clusters. It is clear that nuclear reactions do occur in the bulk of select active Group VIII metals in cold fusion systems that are fortunate enough to be loaded correctly and/or driven correctly (for example by use of the Optimal Operating Point method - see ICCF7). It is also clear that sometimes a different group of nuclear reactions occur on asperities and dendrites which occur on the electrode surface under some conditions (for example see the papers on Codeposition by Stan Szpak, myself, and the paper by Tom Claytor (clickable at, & with other refs to the above, at http://world.std.com/~mica/cftrefs.html#papers ) These two modes - sometimes in the same system - heralds that the phase space of these systems is quite complex. It is not clear which (if only one, or if any) site may be involved with Ken Shoulders' techniques - such as cited above; but the above might be considered in eliciting, effecting, or optimizing those reactions. Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 15 05:02:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA07247; Sat, 15 May 1999 05:01:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 05:01:32 -0700 From: "Gary Hawkins" To: Subject: RE: To kill a tornado Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 05:01:44 -0700 Message-ID: <005601be9eca$b3bf6580$a51a7acc temp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <3742807d.77778049 mail-hub> Resent-Message-ID: <"PpDB91.0.9n1.R8MFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27345 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au] > If the pressure inside a tornado is lower than ambient, then it might be > possible to "short circuit" the differential by placing a horizontal > section of large diameter pipe of some length in the path of the > tornado. The pipe would then form a conduit between the outside high > pressure air, and the inside low pressure air. Air sucked in through the > pipe would tend to neutralise the pressure difference, causing the > tornado to expand at the bottom and slow its rotation (conservation of > angular momentum). If it slowed sufficiently (long pipe), it might > dissipate altogether. > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > A different route: The electrical factor in a tornado is the part that has been overlooked and why they seem so mysterious. A flow of electricity from clouds to ground in damp air is responsible for their formation. Sure you can have whirlwinds as the ground warms up that are simply due to pressure differences, but a tornado is a combination of pressures and electrical flow, and it is that electrical factor that makes them so powerful, sustained, and intense. The meandering nature is based on the best the most efficient electrical path. That's why they seem to be lured toward trailer parks, lots of sheet metal and sharp corners. A V-shaped series of tall metal poles in the ground should be able to divert a tornado to one side or another so it would swing past a farmhouse out in the middle of a field for example. Eliminate the vast electrical potentials all-together and a tornado would quickly fade into the windy day. You need lightning bolts. Small rockets sent up with wires attached can generate those on a clear day. Ionized paths like the HAARP project would be better, but preventing the equipment from frying is a challenge. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 15 08:46:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA03710; Sat, 15 May 1999 08:43:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 08:43:37 -0700 Message-ID: <373D9610.10476399 ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:43:21 -0600 From: Edmund Storms Organization: Energy K System X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters References: <3.0.5.32.19990515015625.008ede30 mail.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"B1EWD2.0.uv.eOPFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27346 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > At 04:16 PM 5/14/99 -0600, Edmund Storms wrote: > > We are presently conducting a search for evidence of such nuclear reactions > here at EarthTech. We are using a gas system in which the conditions are > as given in the example above. The anode is a deuterated Pd sheet (stable > at about 0.55 D/Pd for the last month!). We are exploring a large > parameter space varying deuterium gas pressure in the chamber all the way > from ~10^-6 torr up to ~1/2 atm (like Claytor's experiment). We're using a > fast neutron detector to look for evidence of conventional D+D fusion when > the clusters smash into the deuterated anode. Scott, I suggest you will not see any neutrons unless a spark is formed. Sparks are formed when Pd or other metals crack, because of the resulting charge separation, or when a sufficiently high voltage is applied across an insulator. Even Claytor sees no neutrons even though he applies an electric discharge. Therefore the effect depends on forming a suitable insulating film not just on applying a voltage. I suggest the few neutrons seen in Pd-D2O cells are caused solely by cracking, a phenomenon which can be enhanced by using loading - deloading cycles. However, cracks will not form unless the composition is well into the beta phase, i.e. well above PdD0.7. I predict your approach will not result in any neutron emission, but good luck. Regards, Ed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 15 08:52:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA06257; Sat, 15 May 1999 08:51:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 08:51:22 -0700 Message-ID: <373D97FB.4BBFEC42 ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:51:33 -0600 From: Edmund Storms Organization: Energy K System X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters References: <373CA09C.613AA6DD ix.netcom.com> <3.0.1.32.19990515065228.00ccfe20@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"71wrC.0.hX1.wVPFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27347 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mitchell Swartz wrote: > It is clear that nuclear reactions do occur in the bulk of > select active Group VIII metals in cold fusion systems that are > fortunate enough to be loaded correctly and/or driven > correctly (for example by use of the Optimal Operating > Point method - see ICCF7). > > It is also clear that sometimes a different group of nuclear > reactions occur on asperities and dendrites which occur on the > electrode surface under some conditions (for example see the > papers on Codeposition by Stan Szpak, myself, and the paper by > Tom Claytor (clickable at, & with other refs to the above, > at http://world.std.com/~mica/cftrefs.html#papers ) > > These two modes - sometimes in the same system - heralds > that the phase space of these systems is quite complex. > > It is not clear which (if only one, or if any) site may be > involved with Ken Shoulders' techniques - such as cited above; > but the above might be considered in eliciting, effecting, > or optimizing those reactions. > > Mitchell, I agree, a variety of chemical and structural environments are involved and each produces a different spectrum of nuclear products. That is why the reported results are so scattered. Therefore, this variable nature needs to be kept in mind when any explanation is offered. In particular, I think the role of insulating films needs to be included in the mix of conditions. This environment lends itself to the Shoulders phenomenon and allows some of the methods to be explained. Regards, Ed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 15 09:41:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA19776; Sat, 15 May 1999 09:40:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:40:15 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 07:53:53 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters Resent-Message-ID: <"rZ7pd.0.pq4.lDQFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27348 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 1:56 AM 5/15/99, Scott Little wrote: [snip] >We're using a >plastic scintillator (Bicron BC-720) which works by detecting the >scintillation (with a PM tube) caused by recoil protons created by the >incident fast neutrons. It has an overall efficiency of 0.6% for 2.45 Mev >neutrons...about 100 times better than the 3He counter we tried (borrowed >from Dennis Letts). Any luck looking for thermal neutrons from the Farnsworth fusor? Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 15 09:44:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA20733; Sat, 15 May 1999 09:42:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:42:14 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 12:41:44 EDT Subject: Belated Birthday Present? To: vortex-L eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"eys5A.0.t35.cFQFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27349 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Matt, Father loves that portable CD player with the stereo headphones that Carl Simon lent him. Father says that he can hear the phone over the CD player, but several times, he's said that he was so engrossed in the amazingly concert-like quality of the recordings played on this device that he didn't hear the phone. A headphone CD player like that might make a good present, now or at Christmas, unless he's already ordered one for himself when he gets home. Tom From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 15 10:54:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA04314; Sat, 15 May 1999 10:52:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 10:52:43 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <744622fe.246f0e31 aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 13:51:45 EDT Subject: Re: Belated Birthday Present? To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"IMMxg.0.K31.hHRFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27350 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Oops. It always pays to check that "To" box. I can't blame this one on AOL. Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 15 15:55:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA14648; Sat, 15 May 1999 15:53:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 15:53:34 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: RE: To kill a tornado Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 18:57:30 -0400 Message-ID: <19990515225730671.AAA261 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"MKyiK1.0.oa3.khVFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27351 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gary wrote: > >A different route: The electrical factor in a tornado is the part >that has been overlooked and why they seem so mysterious. A flow >of electricity from clouds to ground in damp air is responsible >for their formation. Sure you can have whirlwinds as the ground >warms up that are simply due to pressure differences, but a tornado >is a combination of pressures and electrical flow, and it is that >electrical factor that makes them so powerful, sustained, and intense. >The meandering nature is based on the best the most efficient electrical >path. That's why they seem to be lured toward trailer parks, lots of >sheet metal and sharp corners. A V-shaped series of tall metal poles >in the ground should be able to divert a tornado to one side or another >so it would swing past a farmhouse out in the middle of a field for example. >Eliminate the vast electrical potentials all-together and a tornado would >quickly fade into the windy day. You need lightning bolts. Small rockets >sent up with wires attached can generate those on a clear day. Ionized >paths like the HAARP project would be better, but preventing the equipment >from frying is a challenge. Hey Gary, Forget the equipment cost, the loss of life and economic damage that a tornado causes far outweigh the price of a UV laser. I've always wondered why nobody has tried to stop these things. Now that I live in Florida, I'm REALLY wondering. They can spot them coming in a week in advance, and all they do is tell everybody to look out. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 15 22:12:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA15335; Sat, 15 May 1999 22:11:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 22:11:13 -0700 From: "Gary Hawkins" To: Subject: HAARP Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 22:10:47 -0700 Message-ID: <000801be9f5a$753911e0$a51a7acc temp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <19990515225730671.AAA261 mail.lcia.com@lizard> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"wkCWb2.0.Tl3.nDbFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27352 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Navy is real informative about the HAARP project: http://server5550.itd.nrl.navy.mil/projects/haarp/haarpIndex.html But one thing that has me perplexed is why I haven't seen any mention of the possible power generation that could come from it. Most everybody on this list knows about the military's "homopolar generator", otherwise known as the N-Machine elsewhere. A magnet and conductive disk are rotated together about the axis of magnetic polarity and power is drawn from the disk periphery and the rotating shaft. With the earth, we have a large magnetic field. The ground can represent the conductive disk. If one could only drop in from space and connect wires between the pole and a point at some lower latitude, a large amount of current through that wire would result from it. You can probably see what I'm getting at here. An ionized path to the ionosphere is a significant conductor. The existence of the northern lights show us that the atmosphere in the north pole region can be pretty conductive itself. Along with the ground, there is a complete electrical path. Unlike copper wire, that path would vary a lot in its resistance. If the levels could be controlled and avalanche prevented, and if heat from it didn't melt the icecap and drown everybody, a huge amount of current should become available, maintained by the rotation of the earth in its magnetic field. But if the Navy considered such a possibility, I don't understand why they would not also talk about that, since they seem out front about the other aspects of it. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 02:07:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA14976; Sun, 16 May 1999 02:06:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 02:06:47 -0700 Message-ID: <000901be9f7a$f6b90660$d9b4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Hydrinos Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 03:02:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"W_luZ1.0.wf3.dgeFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27353 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin wrote: > > I.e. how come I can hold a bottle of acid in my hand without it exploding > from the nuclear energy release? > A simple high pressure autoclave of the type that I used for biomass conversion experiments, so that the material wouldn't be exposed to direct contact with the heater element and not require a high pressure bottle, is to put a closed quartz jar of the acid (constant boiling HCl/H2O or DCl/D2O) in a Heat Pipe type arrangement. A SEAMLESS 1.25 inch steel pipe with a 5 kilowatt hairpin heating element with a 1 inch pipe thread, such as those used in domestic hot water heaters, is inserted in the bottom of the 1.25 inch pipe that is filled with water to a level above the heating element so that it will not have any dry spots. With 120 volts A.C. applied to the heater it will put out 1250 watts. The quartz jar of Acid can then be mounted with clearance in the vapor space of the pipe above the heater and the pipe sealed with a "cap" containing a pressure gauge and a small valve to bleed the air as power is applied to the heating element, along with a feedthru for a thermocouple. I think you will find this more comfortable than holding a bottle of acid in your hand at 550 Kelvin and about 800 PSIG, Robin. :-) WITH SAFETY DISCLAIMER! Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 02:25:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA08094; Sun, 16 May 1999 02:24:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 02:24:19 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrinos Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 09:23:43 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <373f8d3f.22741122 mail-hub> References: <000901be9f7a$f6b90660$d9b4bfa8 default> In-Reply-To: <000901be9f7a$f6b90660$d9b4bfa8 default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id CAA07996 Resent-Message-ID: <"yAl2n3.0.F-1.2xeFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27354 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 16 May 1999 03:02:15 -0600, Frederick Sparber wrote: >Robin wrote: >> >> I.e. how come I can hold a bottle of acid in my hand without it >exploding >> from the nuclear energy release? >> >A simple high pressure autoclave of the type that I used for biomass >conversion experiments, so that the material wouldn't be exposed to direct >contact with the heater element and not require a high pressure bottle, is >to put a closed quartz jar of the acid (constant boiling HCl/H2O or DCl/D2O) >in a Heat Pipe type >arrangement. > >A SEAMLESS 1.25 inch steel pipe with a 5 kilowatt hairpin heating element >with a 1 inch pipe thread, such as those used in domestic hot water heaters, >is inserted in the bottom of the 1.25 inch pipe that is filled with water to >a level above the heating element so that it will not have any dry spots. >With 120 volts A.C. applied to the heater it will put out 1250 watts. > >The quartz jar of Acid can then be mounted with clearance in the vapor space >of the pipe above the heater and the pipe sealed with a "cap" containing a >pressure gauge and a small valve to bleed the air as power is applied to the >heating element, along with a feedthru for a thermocouple. > >I think you will find this more comfortable than holding a bottle of acid in >your hand at 550 Kelvin and about 800 PSIG, Robin. :-) > >WITH SAFETY DISCLAIMER! > >Regards, Frederick 550 K is only about twice room temperature. If this is the ideal temperature, then there should be enough molecules/ions at room temperature as a consequence of the Boltzmann tail to readily bring about the reaction if it were for real. Furthermore, these reactions would heat the acid bringing it closer to the ideal temp. and resulting in ever more reactions - a snowball effect (is there such a thing as an inverted pun? ;). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 03:12:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA26922; Sun, 16 May 1999 03:11:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 03:11:53 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01be9f84$0e813200$d9b4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <000901be9f7a$f6b90660$d9b4bfa8 default> <373f8d3f.22741122@mail-hub> Subject: Re: Hydrinos Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 04:08:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"eFb6w3.0.aa6.fdfFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27355 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: Sent: Sunday, May 16, 1999 3:23 AM Subject: Re: Hydrinos > On Sun, 16 May 1999 03:02:15 -0600, Frederick Sparber wrote: > > >Robin wrote: > >> > >> I.e. how come I can hold a bottle of acid in my hand without it > >exploding > >> from the nuclear energy release? > >> > >A simple high pressure autoclave of the type that I used for biomass > >conversion experiments, so that the material wouldn't be exposed to direct > >contact with the heater element and not require a high pressure bottle, is > >to put a closed quartz jar of the acid (constant boiling HCl/H2O or DCl/D2O) > >in a Heat Pipe type > >arrangement. > > > >A SEAMLESS 1.25 inch steel pipe with a 5 kilowatt hairpin heating element > >with a 1 inch pipe thread, such as those used in domestic hot water heaters, > >is inserted in the bottom of the 1.25 inch pipe that is filled with water to > >a level above the heating element so that it will not have any dry spots. > >With 120 volts A.C. applied to the heater it will put out 1250 watts. > > > >The quartz jar of Acid can then be mounted with clearance in the vapor space > >of the pipe above the heater and the pipe sealed with a "cap" containing a > >pressure gauge and a small valve to bleed the air as power is applied to the > >heating element, along with a feedthru for a thermocouple. > > > >I think you will find this more comfortable than holding a bottle of acid in > >your hand at 550 Kelvin and about 800 PSIG, Robin. :-) > > > >WITH SAFETY DISCLAIMER! > > > >Regards, Frederick > 550 K is only about twice room temperature. If this is the ideal > temperature, then there should be enough molecules/ions at room > temperature as a consequence of the Boltzmann tail to readily bring > about the reaction if it were for real. Furthermore, these reactions > would heat the acid bringing it closer to the ideal temp. and resulting > in ever more reactions - a snowball effect (is there such a thing as an > inverted pun? ;). Only "down under". :-) Going by that "inverted logic" I shouldn't bother cooking my breakfast this morning. I'll just wait for the Boltzmann Tail to do it for me. :-) BTW. Do Not Let the Autoclave Cool Faster than the jar of Acid! With biomass, the gases created by hydrolysis allowed faster cooling and easy Differential Thermal Analysis. Regards, Frederick > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 06:22:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA13678; Sun, 16 May 1999 06:21:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 06:21:30 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990516082514.00843a00 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 08:25:14 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters In-Reply-To: <373D9610.10476399 ix.netcom.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990515015625.008ede30 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qddV01.0.eL3.QPiFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27356 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:43 AM 5/15/99 -0600, Edmund Storms wrote: >I suggest you will not see any neutrons unless a spark is formed. We've got sparks. We're using a "standard" charge-cluster electrode geometry, which comprises a sharply-pointed cathode tip resting upon a thin dielectric Kapton sheet, the edge of which is ~1 mm away from the tip. Under the sheet is the anode, a piece of deuterated Pd. A 300 pF capacitor charged to ~3 kV is switched onto the cathode via a vacuum relay. This applies a very fast rise-time pulse to the cathode, which creates a spark, which hopefully contains one or more charge-clusters, which then run along the dielectric surface and off the edge to strike the anode. To faithfully examine thousands of sparks, I've automated this experiment using a computer that initiates the spark and then interrogates the digital scope monitoring the detector signal to see if the resulting trace meets the characteristics of a real neutron pulse (height and fall time specifications). If not, the trace is ignored and another spark is initiated. If so, the waveform data is xferred from the scope to the computer and stored on disk for later examination. >Sparks are >formed when Pd or other metals crack, because of the resulting charge >separation.... Are you talking about the micro-particle-accelerator theory, wherein a free deuteron is accelerated towards the negative side of the crack and impacts the deuterated metal there with sufficient kinetic energy for ordinary D+D fusion? I remember that hypothesis being discussed at the very first CF conference in Santa Fe (1989). Our present quest is quite different. We're expecting the deuterons to end up hitting the ANODE (positive electode)...because they are attached to a massive negatively charged entity. Horace: I did perform a careful check with the 3He counter around my Fusor. I don't have the numbers in front of me but it showed a very small count compared to the fast neutron detector, consistent with the expected efficiency difference between the two counters for fast neutrons. If there had been a large flux of thermals, the 3He counter would have registered them (whereas the other counter is insensitive to thermals) and disturbed the observed ratio significantly. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 07:43:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA25832; Sun, 16 May 1999 07:40:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:40:14 -0700 Message-ID: <373EF400.9BD832B3 sunherald.infi.net> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 09:36:16 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrinos References: <000901be9f7a$f6b90660$d9b4bfa8 default> <373f8d3f.22741122@mail-hub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9TOxv.0.YJ6.EZjFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27357 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > 550 K is only about twice room temperature. Huh? 550K = 276.85C, or 530F. If room temperature where you are is 265 F, I'm steering clear! :) Kyle R. Mcallister From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 07:50:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA27919; Sun, 16 May 1999 07:50:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:50:24 -0700 Message-ID: <373EDB46.F1477D4E ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 08:50:53 -0600 From: Edmund Storms Organization: Energy K System X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters References: <3.0.5.32.19990515015625.008ede30 mail.eden.com> <3.0.5.32.19990516082514.00843a00@mail.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rucVS3.0.5q6.mijFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27358 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > At 09:43 AM 5/15/99 -0600, Edmund Storms wrote: > > >I suggest you will not see any neutrons unless a spark is formed. > > We've got sparks. We're using a "standard" charge-cluster electrode > geometry, which comprises a sharply-pointed cathode tip resting upon a thin > dielectric Kapton sheet, the edge of which is ~1 mm away from the tip. > Under the sheet is the anode, a piece of deuterated Pd. A 300 pF capacitor > charged to ~3 kV is switched onto the cathode via a vacuum relay. This > applies a very fast rise-time pulse to the cathode, which creates a spark, > which hopefully contains one or more charge-clusters, which then run along > the dielectric surface and off the edge to strike the anode. > > To faithfully examine thousands of sparks, I've automated this experiment > using a computer that initiates the spark and then interrogates the digital > scope monitoring the detector signal to see if the resulting trace meets > the characteristics of a real neutron pulse (height and fall time > specifications). If not, the trace is ignored and another spark is > initiated. If so, the waveform data is xferred from the scope to the > computer and stored on disk for later examination. A nice setup, Scott. If clusters alone are effective, you should see an effect. However, this method differs from the other techniques where neutrons were seen. You are exploring new territory. Good luck. > > Sparks are formed when Pd or other metals crack, because of the resulting > charge separation.... > > Are you talking about the micro-particle-accelerator theory, wherein a free > deuteron is accelerated towards the negative side of the crack and impacts > the deuterated metal there with sufficient kinetic energy for ordinary D+D > fusion? > I remember that hypothesis being discussed at the very first CF conference > in Santa Fe (1989). Yes, the method is called fractofusion and now has a larger literature describing the process. Ed Storms From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 08:01:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA30162; Sun, 16 May 1999 08:00:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 08:00:53 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990515110943.00af6a30 cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 11:11:39 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"0Brqn2.0.CN7.bsjFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27359 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:25 AM 5/16/99 -0500, you wrote: >We've got sparks. We're using a "standard" charge-cluster electrode >geometry, which comprises a sharply-pointed cathode tip resting upon a thin >dielectric Kapton sheet, the edge of which is ~1 mm away from the tip. >Under the sheet is the anode, a piece of deuterated Pd. A 300 pF capacitor >charged to ~3 kV is switched onto the cathode via a vacuum relay. This >applies a very fast rise-time pulse to the cathode, which creates a spark, >which hopefully contains one or more charge-clusters, which then run along >the dielectric surface and off the edge to strike the anode. >Scott Little Fast rise time? I remember the shoulders patents making a point of this, but how do you achieve this with a vacuum relay? It must be a tiny thing, or "Fast" means >1 ns. What's happened to Jupiter Industries and Ken? The charge cluster thing seemed a pretty rich area to explore, but I've heard little of other researchers working it. But this could just be my famous ignorance... I think there is a substantial difference between your system, with a pointed cathode electrically seperated by a great distance from the anode, and the thin film dielectric breakdown described by Ed. I'm not so sure Ed is right about charge cluster mechanism at work here, as the conditions seem opposed to what is currently understood to produce CC's. Cell voltages in the hundreds of volts, large relatively flat expanses of cathode, etc. Although the risetimes for the breakdown generated is probably quite high, based on the electrode geometry. Not much capacity behind it though, but I suppose this is a good thing if the effects are all occurring in the first few ns. I suppose if you want to be anal about the thing, it could be argued that dielectric breakdown is occurring in ordinary electrolysis cell, as a monomolecular layer of water is present between the ions in solution and the metal electrodes before the voltage exceeds ~1 1/4 volts. I always found it remarkable that this monolayer has a dielectric constant of about 6, almost an order of magnitude lower than water in bulk... weird things happen at these scales, to be sure. Have you measured the risetime of your charge cluster system? K. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 08:13:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA32203; Sun, 16 May 1999 08:11:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 08:11:01 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990515112144.00af83d0 cnct.com> X-Sender: knagel cnct.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 11:21:47 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Keith Nagel Subject: Ball Lightning report Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"MRmgF2.0.5t7.40kFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27360 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This has probably been commented on before, but in case not... A serbian cartoonist has been posting reports on the NATO assault, and I was surprised to see this pop out... >Today, while speaking to my parents, they told me a strange thing - during the >first NATO bombing of the power lines, when they used >some special weapon, never used before, to produce a black out on the major >territory of Serbia, my mother was in front of my >parents' house (they got a small fruit tree garden). She saw something that >appeared like light balls moving on the power lines and >rolling on the fields around... The power station is just a couple of 100's of >meters from my parents' home, and they would often look in >the direction of it - as they feared that it's going to be bombed, but this >time there were no detonations at all. It seems that what my >mother have seen were the "soft bombs", a new product made in the NATO >laboratories... It seemed so funny to think about my >parents witnessing the world-premiere use of a new weapon... Sound familiar? Maybe ball lightning is better understood than we think. This seems quite different than the EMP weapon reports that I first heard about. Plus it makes more sense, it's pretty hard to generate EMP's large enough to destroy power co's without detonating an atomic weapon. Whereas a slew of lightning balls would tend to follow the power lines right to the source... K. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 09:07:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA12655; Sun, 16 May 1999 09:04:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 09:04:51 -0700 Message-ID: <001501be9fb5$5cd34840$eeb4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <3.0.32.19990515112144.00af83d0 cnct.com> Subject: Re: Ball Lightning report Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 10:01:26 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"rdkiG3.0.f53.YokFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27361 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Nagel To: Sent: Saturday, May 15, 1999 9:21 AM Subject: Ball Lightning report CNN had an article on a new "Secret Weapon" used to knock out Power Stations, Keith. The bomb throws out carbon fibers that short out the switching appararus at substations etc., so that the power can be disrupted without permanent damge to the generating equipment. :-) I bet this could generate transients that make ball lightning. Watch Frank Stenger check out the Ashtabula area substations with furballs from his cat. :-) Regards, Frederick > This has probably been commented on before, but > in case not... > > A serbian cartoonist has been posting reports on > the NATO assault, and I was surprised to see this > pop out... > > >Today, while speaking to my parents, they told me a strange thing - during > the >first NATO bombing of the power lines, when they used > >some special weapon, never used before, to produce a black out on the > major >territory of Serbia, my mother was in front of my > >parents' house (they got a small fruit tree garden). She saw something > that >appeared like light balls moving on the power lines and > >rolling on the fields around... The power station is just a couple of > 100's of >meters from my parents' home, and they would often look in > >the direction of it - as they feared that it's going to be bombed, but > this >time there were no detonations at all. It seems that what my > >mother have seen were the "soft bombs", a new product made in the NATO > >laboratories... It seemed so funny to think about my > >parents witnessing the world-premiere use of a new weapon... > > Sound familiar? > > Maybe ball lightning is better understood than we think. > This seems quite different than the EMP weapon reports > that I first heard about. Plus it makes more sense, > it's pretty hard to generate EMP's large enough to > destroy power co's without detonating an atomic weapon. > Whereas a slew of lightning balls would tend to > follow the power lines right to the source... > > K. > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 11:01:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA01543; Sun, 16 May 1999 10:59:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 10:59:01 -0700 Message-ID: <373F0776.E2FB73F3 ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 11:59:26 -0600 From: Edmund Storms Organization: Energy K System X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters References: <3.0.32.19990515110943.00af6a30 cnct.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EQGPL3.0.zN.aTmFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27362 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keith Nagel wrote: > I think there is a substantial difference between your system, > with a pointed cathode electrically seperated by a great > distance from the anode, and the thin film dielectric breakdown > described by Ed. I'm not so sure Ed is right about charge > cluster mechanism at work here, as the conditions seem opposed > to what is currently understood to produce CC's. Cell > voltages in the hundreds of volts, large relatively flat > expanses of cathode, etc. Although the risetimes for the breakdown > generated is probably quite high, based on the electrode geometry. > Not much capacity behind it though, but I suppose this > is a good thing if the effects are all occurring in the > first few ns. I suppose if you want to be anal about the > thing, it could be argued that dielectric breakdown is > occurring in ordinary electrolysis cell, as a monomolecular > layer of water is present between the ions in solution > and the metal electrodes before the voltage exceeds ~1 1/4 > volts. I always found it remarkable that this monolayer > has a dielectric constant of about 6, almost an order > of magnitude lower than water in bulk... weird things happen > at these scales, to be sure. > Ken makes charged clusters and then causes them to bore through dielectrics. It seems to me a short extension of the process to produce a discharge within the dielectric itself, thereby producing the charge clusters insitu, so to speak. This process is clearly different from that which occurs within PdD. In this case, the D/Pd ratio of the solid conductor is important, with no dielectric involved. Furthermore, this process produces helium and essentially no neutrons - clearly a different environment and a different nuclear product in contrast to the situation involving charger clusters. I suggest it is very important not to attribute all observations to a single mechanism. To Scott: You might want to look for tritium as well as neutrons since you are exploring a situation similar to that studied by Claytor. The problem with this field is that the easiest product to detect is seldom the one made by nature. Ed Storms From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 11:45:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA09373; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:43:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 11:43:34 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 09:57:15 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters Resent-Message-ID: <"NYseg.0.NI2.L7nFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27363 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:59 AM 5/16/99, Edmund Storms wrote: >To Scott: You might want to look for tritium as well as neutrons since you are >exploring a situation similar to that studied by Claytor. The problem with >this field is that the easiest product to detect is seldom the one made by >nature. Yes, another thought: if the large q/m ratio produces MeV energies as hypothesized, then high energy x-rays would be the logical necessary product. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 13:30:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30703; Sun, 16 May 1999 13:28:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 13:28:52 -0700 Message-ID: <015b01be9fdb$54a1d9e0$1e8180d8 btech> From: "Bill Wallace`" To: Subject: Re: HAARP Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 16:33:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"IPUO-1.0.bV7.3goFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27364 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I recall the tether experiment conducted a while back by nasa - far too much energy - lighted up in the night sky like a bright neon pole before it burned up - what do you propose we use as the conductor? Why not use the moon as the outside point? >The Navy is real informative about the HAARP project: > >http://server5550.itd.nrl.navy.mil/projects/haarp/haarpIndex.html > >But one thing that has me perplexed is why I haven't seen any >mention of the possible power generation that could come from it. > >Most everybody on this list knows about the military's "homopolar >generator", otherwise known as the N-Machine elsewhere. A magnet >and conductive disk are rotated together about the axis of magnetic >polarity and power is drawn from the disk periphery and the rotating shaft. > >With the earth, we have a large magnetic field. The ground can >represent the conductive disk. If one could only drop in from >space and connect wires between the pole and a point at some >lower latitude, a large amount of current through that wire >would result from it. > >You can probably see what I'm getting at here. An ionized path >to the ionosphere is a significant conductor. The existence of >the northern lights show us that the atmosphere in the north >pole region can be pretty conductive itself. Along with the >ground, there is a complete electrical path. > >Unlike copper wire, that path would vary a lot in its resistance. >If the levels could be controlled and avalanche prevented, and if >heat from it didn't melt the icecap and drown everybody, a huge >amount of current should become available, maintained by the >rotation of the earth in its magnetic field. But if the Navy >considered such a possibility, I don't understand why they would >not also talk about that, since they seem out front about the >other aspects of it. > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 13:56:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA04887; Sun, 16 May 1999 13:55:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 13:55:30 -0700 Message-ID: <373F3025.2503 keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 15:52:53 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: HAARP References: <015b01be9fdb$54a1d9e0$1e8180d8 btech> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Npv6a.0.HC1.23pFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27365 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bill et al! You wrote; > I recall the tether experiment conducted a while back by nasa - far > too much energy - lighted up in the night sky like a bright neon pole > before it burned up - what do you propose we use as the conductor? > Why not use the moon as the outside point? A UV laser makes an excellent 'virtual' conductor. Patent and short file originally from I believe freenrg at; http://keelynet.com/interact/archive/00000096.htm There is a book whose name I can't recall at the moment claiming the great pyramid used the Ark of the Covenant to produce a conductive beam into the upper atmosphere in order to siphon electrical current for practical use. I'd have to look it up, but the claim was either UV or a charged particle beam as the conductive path. A superconducting ring could be used to store such power for practical use. The Ark could have been the power source to strike such a beam since it was a giant Leyden jar. At any rate, a UV laser would serve the purpose though one guy says the 193nm claimed in the Phaser patent is too 'lossy' to establish and maintain an efficient conductive path. As an aside, something was going on in ancient times with their obvious knowledge of large scale vacuum tubes as shown in the Dendera crypt at the Temple of Hathor, circa 1,000 BC, built by Seti I. An amazing thing to see, cool, dark and the colors are present even after 3 millenia. I have my own photos to post but there are several on the web as at; the idiotic claim that they were giant light bulbs; http://members.xoom.com/elgato76/pages/ancient.htm another set of images of interest; http://members.xoom.com/elgato76/pages/ancient.htm So where did they get the power to run whatever these things DID? -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 14:29:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA13411; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:26:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 14:26:46 -0700 Message-ID: <018001be9fe3$6b16c700$1e8180d8 btech> From: "Bill Wallace`" To: , Subject: Four States of Matter Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 17:31:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"9jB-q1.0.TH3.MWpFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27366 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I remember reading tesla had a plasma ball - it worked at room temperature - what would go to plasma at room temperature with the right type of energy field (electromangetic)? >Maybe ball lightning is better understood than we think. Aren't there many experiments going on in Australia - isn't there a high incident rate there - and in places with severe geologic stress - fault lines - volcanoes - etc - what is the history of sightings of ball lighting - perhaps there is some new correlations to gleen. >This seems quite different than the EMP weapon reports >that I first heard about. Plus it makes more sense, >it's pretty hard to generate EMP's large enough to >destroy power co's without detonating an atomic weapon. >Whereas a slew of lightning balls would tend to >follow the power lines right to the source... I wonder if these weapons would have to be tuned to the electrical grid they were attacking - wether on 50 or 60 hz? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 15:26:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05477; Sun, 16 May 1999 15:25:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 15:25:34 -0700 Message-ID: <004101be9fea$8a1a5de0$eeb4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Hydrinos and an Incandescent H2-K Plasma Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 16:21:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"9CeDZ2.0.VL1.TNqFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27367 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A direct approach, Robin, A liter-sized refractory bottle at 1032 K (the boiling point of K) containing 0.5 grams of Potassium will have about 1.54E19 K atoms. With an ionization potential Vi of 4.34 volts (and a H-K bond energy of 1.82 ev as compared with a Vi of 13.6 volts and a H-H bond energy of 4.53 ev) if you use the Saha Equation: Log (Ni^2/No) = -5040*Vi/T + 1.5 Log T + 15.385 Where Ni is the number of ions and No is the number of neutral atoms, in this case 1.54E19, at some pressure determined by the temperature and the number of H2 atoms present; you will find that there will be about 4.16E9 K+ ions and their free electrons in the bottle. If I did my math right. At 1300 Kelvin the number of K+ ions and free electrons is about 7.05E9,and there are essentially Zip H+ ions. I think Vince Cockeram's H2K electrically heated plasma can beat that. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 17:28:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA29953; Sun, 16 May 1999 17:24:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 17:24:58 -0700 Message-ID: <021101be9ffc$500607a0$1e8180d8 btech> From: "Bill Wallace`" To: , Subject: Re: HAARP Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 19:58:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"oDCZi1.0.tJ7.Q7sFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27368 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well ancient man had to worry about meteorites and asteroids as much as we do today - perhaps it was a planetary defense system. >There is a book whose name I can't recall at the moment claiming the >great pyramid used the Ark of the Covenant to produce a conductive beam >into the upper atmosphere in order to siphon electrical current for >practical use. > >I'd have to look it up, but the claim was either UV or a charged >particle beam as the conductive path. Yes please do. >A superconducting ring could be used to store such power for practical >use. The Ark could have been the power source to strike such a beam >since it was a giant Leyden jar. > >At any rate, a UV laser would serve the purpose though one guy says the >193nm claimed in the Phaser patent is too 'lossy' to establish and >maintain an efficient conductive path. > >As an aside, something was going on in ancient times with their obvious >knowledge of large scale vacuum tubes as shown in the Dendera crypt at >the Temple of Hathor, circa 1,000 BC, built by Seti I. An amazing thing >to see, cool, dark and the colors are present even after 3 millenia. I >have my own photos to post but there are several on the web as at; > >the idiotic claim that they were giant light bulbs; >http://members.xoom.com/elgato76/pages/ancient.htm > >another set of images of interest; >http://members.xoom.com/elgato76/pages/ancient.htm > >So where did they get the power to run whatever these things DID? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 18:19:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA11706; Sun, 16 May 1999 18:18:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:18:25 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 16:32:07 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: HAARP Resent-Message-ID: <"nIqet2.0.qs2.XvsFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27369 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 3:52 PM 5/16/99, Jerry W. Decker wrote: >A superconducting ring could be used to store such power for practical >use. The Ark could have been the power source to strike such a beam >since it was a giant Leyden jar. Not very giant. The Ark is 3.75 long, 2.25 feet wide, and 2.25 feet high, not counting the lid with two angels and protruding angel wings. Frank Stenger has a much bigger capacitor in his Barn. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 20:22:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA19579; Sun, 16 May 1999 20:20:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 20:20:11 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 03:19:38 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <37468a64.87564789 mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA19561 Resent-Message-ID: <"CpPiU.0.rn4.hhuFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27370 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 16 May 1999 09:57:15 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote: [snip] >Yes, another thought: if the large q/m ratio produces MeV energies as >hypothesized, then high energy x-rays would be the logical necessary >product. [snip] It's also possible that due to the special nature of charge clusters, energy is dumped into the cluster itself, resulting in masses of not so energetic electrons. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 20:30:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA22131; Sun, 16 May 1999 20:27:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 20:27:34 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrinos Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 03:27:01 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <37478bb6.87903332 mail-hub> References: <000901be9f7a$f6b90660$d9b4bfa8 default> <373f8d3f.22741122@mail-hub> <373EF400.9BD832B3@sunherald.infi.net> In-Reply-To: <373EF400.9BD832B3 sunherald.infi.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA22115 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZxVY9.0.jP5.bouFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27371 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 16 May 1999 09:36:16 -0700, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > >> 550 K is only about twice room temperature. > >Huh? 550K = 276.85C, or 530F. If room temperature where you are is 265 >F, I'm steering clear! :) > >Kyle R. Mcallister Room temp is about 300 K. I should have thought it was obvious that you can only do proper "multiple" comparisons on a scale that starts at absolute zero. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 20:35:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24291; Sun, 16 May 1999 20:32:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 20:32:07 -0700 Message-ID: <373F8D3B.5FC5 keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 22:30:03 -0500 From: "Jerry W. Decker" Reply-To: jdecker keelynet.com Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: HAARP References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"u0rpF2.0.Ox5.tsuFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27372 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! > A superconducting ring could be used to store such power for practical > use. The Ark could have been the power source to strike such a beam > since it was a giant Leyden jar. I was referring to the extraction of current from the atmosphere to be held in the superconducting ring, with the ARK as a possible means of STRIKING THE PATH, not storing the electrical energy that would be extracted. -- Jerry Wayne Decker / jdecker keelynet.com http://keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / FAX : (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite - Republic of Texas - 75187 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 20:51:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA30424; Sun, 16 May 1999 20:49:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 20:49:16 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrinos Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 03:48:42 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <37489138.89313459 mail-hub> References: <000901be9f7a$f6b90660$d9b4bfa8 default> <373f8d3f.22741122@mail-hub> <001c01be9f84$0e813200$d9b4bfa8@default> In-Reply-To: <001c01be9f84$0e813200$d9b4bfa8 default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA30407 Resent-Message-ID: <"T6Wcc3.0.IR7.y6vFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27373 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 16 May 1999 04:08:31 -0600, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] >Going by that "inverted logic" I shouldn't bother cooking my breakfast this >morning. I'll just wait for the Boltzmann Tail to do it for me. :-) [snip] Ah, you've just proven that your breakfast doesn't produce hydrinos! ;). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 22:00:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA15144; Sun, 16 May 1999 21:58:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 21:58:42 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990517000227.008ee6e0 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 00:02:27 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990515110943.00af6a30 cnct.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-KrSZ1.0.Ti3.18wFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27374 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:11 AM 5/15/99 -0400, Keith Nagel wrote: >Fast rise time? I remember the shoulders patents making a point >of this, but how do you achieve this with a vacuum relay? It >must be a tiny thing, or "Fast" means >1 ns. It is pretty small....a 2" glass globe contains it. Yes, fast means maybe 5 ns or so. The rise time is inductance limited. >What's happened >to Jupiter Industries and Ken? JI is defunct. In a way, EarthTech is its successor. Ken has moved out west somewhere and is experimenting on his own in the same general area. He has collaborated with Hal Fox recently. >The charge cluster thing seemed >a pretty rich area to explore, but I've heard little of >other researchers working it. But this could just be >my famous ignorance... There is no acceptable proof of the existence of charge clusters. Ken would disagree with this but he's pretty much by himself. We are eager to devise an experiment that proves the existence of cc's but presently do not know how to do so. >I think there is a substantial difference between your system, >with a pointed cathode electrically seperated by a great >distance from the anode, and the thin film dielectric breakdown >described by Ed. I'm not so sure Ed is right about charge >cluster mechanism at work here, as the conditions seem opposed >to what is currently understood to produce CC's. I agree with your concerns but Ken himself thinks it's happening...he and Hal Fox wrote a paper about it (which I referenced in my writeup of Underwater Sparking on my web page, "Experiments and Reports" section). >Have you measured the risetime of your charge cluster system? Not accurately. On the best scope I have, it looks like about 3 ns...but then it's a 300 MHz scope, so it can't show anything faster. Horace wrote: >..if the large q/m ratio produces MeV energies as >hypothesized, then high energy x-rays would be the logical necessary >product. Indeed. Shoulders reported observing anomalous energy x-rays (~40 keV) being emitted from sparks made with ~2 kV potential. Several years ago, I tried HARD to duplicate that particular observation, x-rays being a well-known subject to me. I made and detected x-rays to be sure...but there was no evidence that their energies were greater than the applied potential. Ed: Yes, a look for tritium is in order. I'll see what can be done. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 22:46:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA28379; Sun, 16 May 1999 22:44:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 22:44:15 -0700 Message-ID: <007901bea027$d3f3ede0$eeb4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Hydrinos and an Incandescent H2-K Plasma Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 23:39:49 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"lUzHX1.0.Lx6.lowFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27375 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Getting closer, Robin? With a 200 milliliter bottle (Stainless Steel?); Put in about 50 milligrams of Magnesium powder and about 112 milligrams of KOH, seal and put in a ceramics kiln set for 1300 deg Kelvin. 2 KOH + 2 Mg ----> 2 K + 2 MgO + H2 0.112 g 0.048 g 0.078g 0.080g 0.002g This gives 3.125E18 Potassium atoms/milliliter and 3.125E18 H2 molecules/ml. At 1300 K, going by the Celebrated Saha Equation: Log (Ni^2/No) = - 5040* Vi/T + 1.5 Log T + 15.386 at 1300 K there should be; Log Ni^2/3.125E18 = 2.95967 Ni = 3.04E9 K+ ions & electrons/ml and about 2.8E9 Dissociated H2 molecules/ml or 5.6E9 H atoms/ml. One can use K2CO3 rather than KOH, but the CO2 generated, is a problem. Using DTA, one should see an exotherm if the Hydrinos are made? Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 23:31:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA04889; Sun, 16 May 1999 23:29:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 23:29:35 -0700 Message-ID: <19990517063024.19017.rocketmail send205.yahoomail.com> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 23:30:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"4mIe41.0.JC1.FTxFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27376 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Some comments on Scott Little's charge cluster work; >This is the sort of thing I've been thinking about as well, Ed. Further, >there is a reasonable mechanism for real nuclear reactions accompanying >such charge clusters. Shoulders has already proposed this mechanism, I >believe. It goes as follows: A charge cluster (~10^10 electrons) >ionizes atoms that it passes in transit from cathode to anode and then >captures the >nuclei of those atoms by simple Coulombic attraction. Assuming that it >captures relatively few nuclei so that the total mass of nucleons is >still much lower than the mass of electrons in the cluster, and further >assuming >that the mean free path of this assemblage is sufficiently large that it >can anearly equal to that of an electron accelerated thru the applied >potential >MULTIPLIED by the ratio of the nuclei mass to that of a single electron. >For example, if a charge cluster flies across a gap with an applied >potential of 2000 volts and picks up some deuterons along the way, the >captured deuterons will arrive at the anode with about 7 MeV of energy >(i.e. 3672 * 2000 eV). This process of ion acceleration by a much larger number of independently accelerated electrons is an examble of the class of phenomena called "collective acceleration." Various processes of this class have been demonstrated (but don't ask me for references, because I haven't followed the field). If you get accelerated ions, then you should see a few neutrons, because the ions are no different from conventionally accelerated ions. You should see the usual mix of DD fusion, unless the Pd host does something unexpected. If it turns out to be just energetic ion bombardment of a deuterated target, then the fusion energy output will always be many orders of magnitude less than the beam energy. This is because the cross sections for collisions that slow the incident deuterons are orders of magnitude larger than the DD nuclear fusion cross section. Rise time in pulsed arcs is limited by inductance (so keep conductors fat and short) and ionization times in the load arc and (in your case) in the arc that forms in the relay gap when the two electrodes come close to initiate breakdown. Either one can be limiting, depending on the details of the system. Re charge clusters: I see no reason why an electrical discharge from a fine pointed cathode should make electron (charge) CLUSTERS. I don't know that Ken Shoulders had any real evidence of their existence, and Scott seems to say pretty much the same thing in one of his recent posts. Arcs are complicated systems, and detecting charge clusters with the properties that Ken states amid all the other things going on in an arc strikes me as a very difficult task. (It seems that most reports of "wierd" results come from the use of simple equipment to diagnose complex systems. Science usually tries to build, study and understand simple systems, from which general principles can be deduced and then used to understand the more complex systems.) === Michael J. Schaffer _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 23:44:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA08826; Sun, 16 May 1999 23:42:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 23:42:34 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrinos and an Incandescent H2-K Plasma Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 06:42:00 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <374ab9e6.99730384 mail-hub> References: <007901bea027$d3f3ede0$eeb4bfa8 default> In-Reply-To: <007901bea027$d3f3ede0$eeb4bfa8 default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA08810 Resent-Message-ID: <"MFnYq1.0.q92.PfxFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27377 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 16 May 1999 23:39:49 -0600, Frederick Sparber wrote: >Getting closer, Robin? > >With a 200 milliliter bottle (Stainless Steel?); > >Put in about 50 milligrams of Magnesium powder and about 112 milligrams of >KOH, seal and put in a ceramics kiln set for 1300 deg Kelvin. > >2 KOH + 2 Mg ----> 2 K + 2 MgO + H2 > 0.112 g 0.048 g 0.078g 0.080g 0.002g I think you will have a problem reducing potassium with magnesium. I suspect you are more likely to only reduce the hydrogen, ending up with a mixture of K2O and MgO. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 23:48:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA10031; Sun, 16 May 1999 23:46:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 23:46:18 -0700 Message-ID: <19990517064706.20269.rocketmail send205.yahoomail.com> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 23:47:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: HAARP To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"0gp2X1.0.bS2.wixFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27378 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gary Hawkins wrote: > But one thing that has me perplexed is why I haven't seen any > mention of the possible power generation that could come from it. [snip] > With the earth, we have a large magnetic field. The ground can > represent the conductive disk. If one could only drop in from > space and connect wires between the pole and a point at some > lower latitude, a large amount of current through that wire > would result from it. A homopolar generator requires RELATIVE MOTION between two parts. Or, the contact point must be sliding at some relative velocity. It's hard to make a contact between one of Earth's poles and its equator that is anchored in absolute space while the earth turns... I did a quick estimate, and if one could do the above, the induced potential would be something under 100 kV---much less than the potential driving a typical lightning stroke. The reason is that Earth's magnetic field is rather small. === Michael J. Schaffer _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 16 23:52:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA11259; Sun, 16 May 1999 23:49:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 23:49:54 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 06:49:21 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <374bbb19.100037729 mail-hub> References: <3.0.5.32.19990517000227.008ee6e0 mail.eden.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990517000227.008ee6e0 mail.eden.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA11243 Resent-Message-ID: <"w4-9d1.0.rl2.ImxFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27379 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 17 May 1999 00:02:27 -0500, Scott Little wrote: [snip] >There is no acceptable proof of the existence of charge clusters. Ken >would disagree with this but he's pretty much by himself. We are eager to >devise an experiment that proves the existence of cc's but presently do not >know how to do so. [snip] If you can produce what you think may be CCs in air, then redoing the experiment in vacuum, shouldn't make any difference. The CCs can then be detected by the holes they punch in the dielectric walls of the vacuum container, in their attempts to get to the anode. If it doesn't work in vacuum, then you probably have mini BLs, not charge clusters. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 00:07:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA20681; Mon, 17 May 1999 00:04:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 00:04:58 -0700 (PDT) X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 06:58:01 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <374cbc7f.100395741 mail-hub> References: <19990517063024.19017.rocketmail send205.yahoomail.com> In-Reply-To: <19990517063024.19017.rocketmail send205.yahoomail.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id AAA20664 Resent-Message-ID: <"VJVJU1.0.335.O-xFt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27380 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 16 May 1999 23:30:24 -0700 (PDT), Michael Schaffer wrote: [snip] >unexpected. If it turns out to be just energetic ion bombardment of a >deuterated target, then the fusion energy output will always be many orders >of magnitude less than the beam energy. This is because the cross sections >for collisions that slow the incident deuterons are orders of magnitude >larger than the DD nuclear fusion cross section. [snip] Trenergy (?) seem to believe that an approaching charge cluster will push away most of the electrons near the point of impact on the anode as they approach, due to the large negative charge carried by the cluster. (I think Horace also suggested something similar in the past). If so, then wouldn't you expect this to alter the cross section? (Not as many electrons for the ions in the cluster to collide with). IOW are collision cross sections determined from collisions with whole atoms, or collisions with bare nuclei? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 00:20:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA24000; Mon, 17 May 1999 00:16:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 00:16:21 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 22:29:45 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: HAARP Resent-Message-ID: <"HhfrB1.0.ws5.49yFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27381 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:30 PM 5/16/99, Jerry W. Decker wrote: >Hi Folks! > >> A superconducting ring could be used to store such power for practical >> use. The Ark could have been the power source to strike such a beam >> since it was a giant Leyden jar. > >I was referring to the extraction of current from the atmosphere to be >held in the superconducting ring, with the ARK as a possible means of >STRIKING THE PATH, not storing the electrical energy that would be >extracted. Using dimensions of 45" x 27" x 27" for the Ark, and assuming 1" thick wood (less gives more capacitance, but less abiltity to carry stone tablets) we have a maximum plate area of about 2(27x27)+4(27x45) = 1458 + 4860 = 6318 in^2. Using a dielectric constant of 3 for wood, we get a maximum capacitance of about 1.7 x 10^-9 Farads. The dielectric strength of wood is low, but you might get 300 KV across an inch of wax impregnated wood, ignoring arc-around problems That gives a maximum of about 45 J of stored energy in the ARK. Even with these outlandish assumptions, it still does appear feasible to ionize a path 90 miles long through the atmosphere with the resulting 45 J of energy. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 01:31:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA10863; Mon, 17 May 1999 01:29:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 01:29:51 -0700 From: "Gary Hawkins" To: Subject: RE: HAARP > Ancient Technology Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 01:29:30 -0700 Message-ID: <001201bea03f$62a95180$a51a7acc temp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <373F3025.2503 keelynet.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"tkNw7.0.cf2._DzFt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27382 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > another set of images of interest; > http://members.xoom.com/elgato76/pages/ancient.htm > > So where did they get the power to run whatever these things DID? Backing up to how they first found out about electricity... Thor finds a couple of rocks with very high metal content, which happen to be dissimilar metals, and throws them into an urn with salt-water. He notices some bubbling, covers the urn, and that night brings a friend to take a look. With torch lit they uncover the pot. Boom! Who discovered Brown's Gas? Thor. It only takes about a volt and half to separate the atoms in water. So the wise men investigate the calamity. In their own copper pots they find that two of them next to each other with one of the rocks in each one will still result in the bubbling as long as the pots are in contact with each other, and as long as the water is from the Mediterranean sea, not the Nile. And this does not work with ceramic pots. They reason that copper is able to transfer this force, whatever it is. They find that a series of pots made of copper (or silver or gold actually) are able to increase the effect. And electricity is born. A rough example I suppose, but there is a lot of cheap slave labor to be had. Where they would get frequency or high voltages to operate vacuum tubes is one I couldn't even speculate on. But those look like high-voltage insulators in the picture. They were doing the same sort of investigations we do today except the range of knowledge is different. We still don't know what a magnetic field is, for example. Speaking of that... There was talk of the speed of light being different in a medium that is more dense. I don't have time to check this myself but am curious whether a laser beam would be refracted as it travels between two rare-earth magnets being forced nearly all the way together at like poles. If so, it would be interesting to know if the refraction effect of two south poles forced together would be any different than two north poles. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 04:42:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA10966; Mon, 17 May 1999 04:32:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 04:32:47 -0700 Message-ID: <00af01bea058$83db34e0$eeb4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <007901bea027$d3f3ede0$eeb4bfa8 default> <374ab9e6.99730384@mail-hub> Subject: Re: Hydrinos and an Incandescent H2-K Plasma Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 05:28:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"Y3ksd1.0.Gh2.Vv_Ft" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27383 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 12:42 AM Subject: Re: Hydrinos and an Incandescent H2-K Plasma Robin wrote: > On Sun, 16 May 1999 23:39:49 -0600, Frederick Sparber wrote: > > >Getting closer, Robin? > > > >With a 200 milliliter bottle (Stainless Steel?); > > > >Put in about 50 milligrams of Magnesium powder and about 112 milligrams of > >KOH, seal and put in a ceramics kiln set for 1300 deg Kelvin. > > > >2 KOH + 2 Mg ----> 2 K + 2 MgO + H2 > > 0.112 g 0.048 g 0.078g 0.080g 0.002g > I think you will have a problem reducing potassium with magnesium. I > suspect you are more likely to only reduce the hydrogen, ending up with > a mixture of K2O and MgO. Not so, Robin, heated to 600 K 2 KOH + 2 Mg + E -----> 2 MgO + 2K (gas) + H2 (gas) 2 (-90 kcal) = 0 + E -----> 2 ( - 136 kcal) + 0 + 0 E = 2 (-136 kcal) + 2 (-90 kcal) E = -92 kcal highly exothermic! Regards, Frederick > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 06:24:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA00257; Mon, 17 May 1999 06:22:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 06:22:21 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990517081138.00a4a83c mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:11:38 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: EV experiment challenge Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"nip7s.0.o3.CW1Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27385 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A spark discharge is made using a sharply-pointed cathode tip which lies in contact with a .1mm thick dielectric sheet, which is in turn lying upon a ground plane. The cathode tip is a few millimeters from the edge of the sheet. A capacitor of several hundred pF is charged to several thousand volts and switched onto the cathode tip suddenly. Therefore, around 10^-6 coulombs or 10^12 electrons fly off the tip of the cathode, race along the surface of the sheet, and smash into the anode. It is hypothesized that, during the formation of the spark...immediately outside the cathode tip, some 10^10 or 10^11 of these electrons are collapsed into a dense nucleus-like structure by the Casimir force. This structure then propogates across to the anode...surrounded by and followed by the rest of the electrons. The cluster (aka "EV") probably contains between 0.01 and 0.1 of the electrons involved in the spark. Challenge: Devise an experiment that will detect the presence/absence of such a cluster in the spark. Vague Restrictions: I don't think I can make the EV run more than a few millimeters long. I also don't know how to make them drift through empty space...they want to be on the dielectric sheet. Shoulders appears to have conquered these difficulties and I'm certainly willing to try...but it would be best if the test would work on the geometry described above. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 06:25:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA00208; Mon, 17 May 1999 06:22:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 06:22:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990517082351.00a4c2a0 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:23:51 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters In-Reply-To: <19990517063024.19017.rocketmail send205.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"BxJCO1.0.63.AW1Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27384 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 23:30 5/16/99 -0700, Michael Schaffer wrote: >If it turns out to be just energetic ion bombardment of a >deuterated target, then the fusion energy output will always be many orders >of magnitude less than the beam energy. Agreed. The primary purpose of this experiment is to provide evidence that charge clusters actually exist. Without charge clusters, it is difficult...if not impossible...to devise an explanation for deuterons being accelerated towards the ANODE (i.e. the positive electrode). >Ken Shoulders had any real evidence of their existence, and Scott seems to >say pretty much the same thing in one of his recent posts. Ken's evidence is largely subjective. For example, he devised an electron camera and took numerous videos of wiggly tracks made by his spark discharges. Apparently, the charge clusters continuously emit electrons as they fly around. From the appearance of the wiggles, he deduced that they could only be made by a ball of charge following the wiggly path...not a streamer. I've looked at the evidence and, although that is one explanation for the observed tracks, I'm not convinced that it is the only explanation. Another evidence was the peculiar pock marks made on the anode by the purported clusters. Recently, we have succeeded in making VERY similar pock marks in some of our experiments so at least we appear to have the same sort of sparks that Ken was using. Now all we need is a definitive experiment. In a separate post, I'll lay out the challenge for all Vorts to consider. Robin wrote: >If you can produce what you think may be CCs in air, then redoing the >experiment in vacuum, shouldn't make any difference. The CCs can then be >detected by the holes they punch in the dielectric walls of the vacuum >container, I would be most interested in learning how you would differentiate between holes made by charge clusters and similar holes made by intense streams of ordinary, separate electrons. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 06:51:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA11124; Mon, 17 May 1999 06:51:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 06:51:22 -0700 Message-ID: <37403A0B.F3AC526A sunherald.infi.net> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:47:23 -0700 From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrinos References: <000901be9f7a$f6b90660$d9b4bfa8 default> <373f8d3f.22741122@mail-hub> <373EF400.9BD832B3@sunherald.infi.net> <37478bb6.87903332@mail-hub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-482k2.0.kj2.Px1Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27386 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > Room temp is about 300 K. I should have thought it was obvious that you > can only do proper "multiple" comparisons on a scale that starts at > absolute zero. On a single scale this would be easy, but with multiple scales, it gets very confusing. Personally, I would like everything to be measured in Kelvins, but... What I meant was, 550K isn't something you want to hold in your hand. Kyle R. Mcallister From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 06:55:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA16905; Mon, 17 May 1999 06:54:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 06:54:24 -0700 Message-ID: <00bd01bea06c$4c166200$eeb4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Incandescent Iron Cathode Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 07:49:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"SoZ5h1.0.384.G-1Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27387 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stuff Needed: 1, A 40 ton load of 1 inch Rebar in 21 ft lengths (Cathodes). 2, A 40 Ton load of 24 inch O.D. x 3 inch I.D. 21 ft., Iron Tubing (Anodes). Methodology; i.e., Protocol: Fill the "Tubes" with water-0.5 molar K2CO3, hook to 240 V.A.C. 200 amp Service Power Source. Reactions: 2 Fe + 3 H2O ----> Fe2O3 + 3 H2 + OU Heat. Pipe and Pump the Fe2O3 "Slurry" from the bottom of the Tube back to the Steel Mill where it is reacted with the carbon from Biomass: 2 Fe2O3 + 6 C ----> 6 CO + 4 Fe The molten Fe is formed back into ReBar and Tubing and Trucked back to the H2-OU Generator, and the CO is reacted with H2O using a Shift Catalyst: 6 CO + 6 H2O -----> 6 CO2 + 6 H2 This is piped to an OU Fuel Cell that Provides the 200 Amp Service to the Incandescent Iron Cathode. Beats Charge Clusters, Hands Down! :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 07:01:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA20582; Mon, 17 May 1999 07:00:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 07:00:38 -0700 Message-ID: <374020FC.F8DE0CBE bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:00:28 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Four States of Matter References: <018001be9fe3$6b16c700$1e8180d8 btech> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"80NHB1.0.S15.542Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27388 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Wallace` wrote: > I wonder if these weapons would have to be tuned to the electrical grid they > were attacking - wether on 50 or 60 hz? They had some pictures of them on the www.beograd.com web site. They are cylinders about 15 cm long and 8 cm wide which stream out long strands of carbon composite string. These apparently blanket power lines and transformers providing a shunt. They seem to have some adhesive on them and are a bitch to remove. A friend from the airforce told me how they discovered this non-lethal weapon. It seems that they were burning some composite material used on an experimental stealth aircraft when the smoke drifted over the base electrical substation. Serendipity! Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 08:09:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA13886; Mon, 17 May 1999 08:07:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:07:07 -0700 From: "Ed Wall" To: Subject: RE: EV experiment challenge Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:07:50 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bea077$07bf9120$2e0a16cf computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990517081138.00a4a83c mail.eden.com> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"er9mt1.0.uO3.Q23Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27389 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't see any mention of the discharge taking place in a vacuum. Shoulders experimented with different pressures, but I seem to remember that the life of the EV is very short in atmospheric pressure. Ed Wall New Energy Research Laboratory Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Bow, NH 03302-2816 (603) 226-4822 fax 224-5975 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 08:47:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA04313; Mon, 17 May 1999 08:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37403754.29AF3536 ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 09:35:52 -0600 From: Edmund Storms Organization: Energy K System X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters References: <3.0.5.32.19990515015625.008ede30 mail.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e2Fcw1.0.J31.rZ3Gt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27390 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott, If clusters would make neutrons after being created in a deuterium and caused to impinge on PdD , then Tom Claytor should have seen their production. Your arrangement is sufficiently similar to his setup that I doubt your method will work. On the other hand, a discharge through an oxide insulator does produce nuclear reactions, including neutrons on occasion. My understanding of Ken’s experience is that a cluster produces a tunnel when it passes through a dielectric and the removed material is accelerated ahead of the cluster. If deuterium were part of that debris, the effect you are seeking might be seen. The presence of deuterium in the surrounding gas or in a conductor does not appear to interact with a cluster, except in theory. I suggest you use as the anode aluminum or zirconium which has been heated first in oxygen and then in deuterium. These metals can be coated with an oxide which is not reduced by hydrogen. Heating in deuterium will cause some of the gas to dissolve without removing the oxide layer, thereby providing a small source of deuterium . Ed Storms From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 09:17:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA04287; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:15:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 09:15:30 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990517121217.0081eda0 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 12:12:17 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters In-Reply-To: <37403754.29AF3536 ix.netcom.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990515015625.008ede30 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"nuwNS.0.v21.Y24Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27391 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:35 AM 5/17/99 -0600, Edmund Storms wrote: >Scott, > >If clusters would make neutrons after being created in a deuterium and >caused to impinge on PdD , then Tom Claytor should have seen their >production. Your arrangement is sufficiently similar to his setup that >I doubt your method will work. On the other hand, a discharge through >an oxide insulator does produce nuclear reactions, including neutrons on >occasion. My understanding of Kens experience is that a cluster >produces a tunnel when it passes through a dielectric and the removed >material is accelerated ahead of the cluster. If deuterium were part of >that debris, the effect you are seeking might be seen. The presence of >deuterium in the surrounding gas or in a conductor does not appear to >interact with a cluster, except in theory. I suggest you use as the >anode aluminum or zirconium which has been heated first in oxygen and >then in deuterium. These metals can be coated with an oxide which is >not reduced by hydrogen. Heating in deuterium will cause some of the >gas to dissolve without removing the oxide layer, thereby providing a >small source of deuterium . > >Ed Storms Ed, There are also theoretical reasons dealing with the nuclear excited levels of He(*) why neutrons are the least likely channel. :. The S/N would be much improved by focusing on tritium or other product (including heat if calibration and noise are handled). Also, the focus on 'dielectric' layers is a bit broad in that the complex characteristics of dielectrics covers more orders of magnitude (with conductivity alone which is the imaginary part of the complex dielectric permittivity a.k.a "constant") than almost anything except maybe nucleation. ;-)X The focus is also narrow in part, in that double layers also appear to enable the reactions in some Ni/H2O and Pd/D2O systems. There may even be some overlap between these two. Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 09:41:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA18844; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:40:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 09:40:05 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990517114030.00a47300 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:40:30 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: RE: EV experiment challenge In-Reply-To: <000301bea077$07bf9120$2e0a16cf computer> References: <3.0.1.32.19990517081138.00a4a83c mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"XxIfB.0.Cc4.bP4Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27392 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:07 5/17/99 -0400, Ed Wall wrote: >I don't see any mention of the discharge taking place in a vacuum. Oops! Thanks, Ed. This experiment IS conducted in a low-pressure chamber. Typically, the pressure is below 10 millitorr. I have made successful-looking sparks with my chamber evacuated as low as it will go...about 10^-7 torr. Shoulders often mentions 1 millitorr in his book. Generally, it is not necessary to put in any special gas...the spark seems to work fine in the residual gas after evacuation (i.e. water vapor, nitrogen, and hydrogen in my case). Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 09:51:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA22782; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:50:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 09:50:21 -0700 From: UNIR2B1NM aol.com Message-ID: <5e03907c.2471a185 aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 12:44:53 EDT Subject: E-mail FEES, manditory & automatic...? To: 11111119 lava.net (DD), 3wishes@wishgranted.com (Vince Goetsch), aaa texas.net (Joe Portman Sr.), alienvisitor@onelist.com, AMINOR HACH.COM.Abel.Ken.ken@abelexpress.com (Alana Minor), antarah_rose hotmail.com (Antarah Rose), antigrav ihug.co.nz (John Berry), ark millennium-ark.net, atech ix.netcom.com (Dennis C. Lee), b25b@LCIA.COM, Beulah39 juno.com (Beulah), bill@basselectronics.com, biotron pacbell.net, candace1@usa.net, celiag@email.com, chief sundial.net (michael romack), dawnames@hotmail.com, lkvp mail.awod.com, Design73@aol.com, DiMaDuBo@aol.com, donadams telusplanet.net (Don J. S. Adams), dpnichols iswt.com (David Nichols) (later:dpnichols apex.net), dtaylor sonyinteractive.com (David Taylor), dwenbert@spacey.net, elebra hotmail.com (Mattias), Eliria99@aol.com, ewall infinite-energy.com (Ed Wall), freenrg-l@eskimo.com, goldbug worldaccessnet.com, heatherti mindspring.com (Heather and Andrew Tinley), Henry.Scudder West.Boeing.com.Scudder, Henry.J@aol.com, herman antioch-college.edu (John Schnurer), homer abac.com (John H.St.John), housed indiana.edu (David House), intelife pop.globaldialog.com (JADE), InTheShadows@onelist.com, Jaldinshah aol.com, jdo@ucalgary.ca (Jorg D. 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Abbott), Serwitz@aol.com, sharon nyct.net (Sharon), shekhina_shaman bigfoot.com (Shekhina Canyon), SHEREE_SCHMIDT hp-loveland-om2.om.hp.com (Sheree Schmidt), spot2 pdq.net (spot), survival@ballistic.com (Tom), TB4299@aol.com, tekcorman yahoo.com (ron kita), tenx7 bellatlantic.net (Henri Calitri), transnet mail.teleport.com (John Michaels), transnet teleport.com (Micheal), trknute@earthlink.net, UFOLAWYER1 aol.com, unexplained@listservice.net (unexplained), visited onelist.com (visited), vortex-l@eskimo.com, werosser hotmail.com, y2k-survival@infostream.net, Y2KNOW listbot.com (Y2K), zianet@interserv.com (David Openheimer) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"uVUFu1.0.tZ5.DZ4Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27393 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: (Messages such as "unsubscribe" are welcome, to: UNIR2B1NM aol.com --"You & I Are To Be One in Him"--a declaration of Dialectical/Christian philosophy/faith). ---------------------------------------------- << Orig. msg. from C. Ed Copeland, drcec getnet.com Read the following and pass it on to everyone you know: Dear Internet Subscriber: Please read the following carefully if you intend to stay online and continue using email: The last few months have revealed an alarming trend in the Government of the United States attempting to quietly push through legislation that will affect your use of the Internet. Under proposed legislation the U.S. Postal Service will be attempting to bilk email users out of "alternate postage fees". Bill 602P will permit the Federal Govt to charge a 5 cent surcharge on every email delivered, by billing Internet Service Providers at source. The consumer would then be billed in turn by the ISP. Washington D.C. lawyer Richard Stepp is working without pay to prevent this legislation from becoming law. The U.S. Postal Service is claiming that lost revenue due to the proliferation of email is costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per year. You may have noticed their recent ad campaign "There is nothing like a letter". Since the average citizen received about 10 pieces of email per day in 1998, the cost to the typical individual would be an additional 50 cents per day, or over $180 dollars per year, above and beyond their regular Internet costs. Note that this would be money paid directly to the U.S. Postal Service for a service they do not even provide. The whole point of the Internet is democracy and non-interference. If the federal government is permitted to tamper with our liberties by adding a surcharge to email, who knows where it will end. You are already paying an exorbitant price for snail mail because of bureacratic efficiency. It currently takes up to 6 days for a letter to be delivered from New York to Buffalo. If the U.S. Postal Service is allowed to tinker with email, it will mark the end of the "free" Internet in the United States. One congressman, Tony Schnell (R) has even suggested a "twenty to forty dollar per month surcharge on all Internet service" above and beyond the government's proposed email charges. Note that most of the major newspapers have ignored the story, the only exception being the Washingtonian which called the idea of email surcharge "a useful concept who's time has come" March 6th 1999 Editorial) Don't sit by and watch your freedoms erode away! Send this email to all Americans on your list and tell your friends and relatives to write to their congressman and say "No!" to Bill 602P. Kate Turner Assistant to Richard Stepp, Berger, Stepp and Gorman Attorneys at Law 216 Concorde Street, Vienna, Va. ****************** Why do liberals trust the bad guys to be good and expect the law- abiding to be bad? >> From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 10:14:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA00563; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:12:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:12:47 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:26:15 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: EV experiment challenge Resent-Message-ID: <"WAz3s3.0.e8.Fu4Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27394 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 8:11 AM 5/17/99, Scott Little wrote: [snip] >Challenge: Devise an experiment that will detect the presence/absence of >such a cluster in the spark. My feeling is that Ken Shoulder's experiments that I have read read thus far have alternative explanations. There is therefore no reason to believe EV's exist at all. Maybe recent improvements in oscilloscope technology will help resolve this. An interesting but less meaningful challenge is to show an exisiting EV experiment that does not have an alternative explanation that does not require EV's, or to find an experiment to use as a starting point for deriving a definitive experiment. It is especially notable that repeated theory about mechanisms solely at the cathode are described, while ignoring the necessity of having a conductive metal anode, and thus the role of the anode. An also interesting challenge is to achieve a controlled repeatable EV type discharge that does not require a metal anode, i.e. that is a discharge to a dielectric surface. It is clear that such discharges are feasible, in that it is possible to obtain spark discharges between two dielectrics (e.g, wool and silk.) I think it is important to note that pit formation, more specifically high speed pit tails, patterns of distinct pit jumping type movement, is characteristic of vacuum arcs, thus may not require high speed pulses, or EV clumps, at all. In particular, CF buffs will find micrographs of DC arc spot trails (especially cathode spot trails) very reminiscent of CF "cone formations" found on CF cathodes. (See "Vacuum Arcs", Lafferty and Cobine, John Wiley & Sons, 1976.) It is my impression from the literature and experimentation that spark formation, even in fast DC sparks, is a leader based phenomenon, and necessarily involves bi-directional particle motion, as well as leader formation from both the anode and cathode areas. It also involves alternating or pulsed current which makes spot trails on the witness plate, similar to those created by vacuum arcs. These trails in arcs tend to form into ring like patterns due to the surface physics. It is also notable that vacuum's are not required to obtain EV like observations, though leader formation and thus spark distance is greatly enhanced in a vacuum. The following is a related experiment report of mine from Feb. 27, 1997: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - In reading Ken Shoulder's book "EV - A Tale of Discovery." I didn't get very far without coming across a problem relating to the first experiment (Fig 2:5, p. 2-6). The problem seems to be in assuming the EV is "emitted" by action at the cathode. On page 2-5 Shoulders states "The EV is formed and propagates to the anodes whenever the direct curren or pulse voltage rises to the point at which begins a runaway switching process aided by metallic vapor from the cathode emission site. This happens 100% of the time." This implies that, other than field creation, the witness plate foil plays no direct role in the forming of the EV, as opposed to the conventional wisdom that a spark is the result of various leaders from both positive and negative electrodes coming together to make a conductive pathway. The flatness of the witness plate guarantees that the field gradient there can not possibly reach a magnitude anything near that of the point cathode, so to some extent this seems reasonable. The question is whether this concept can be verified. If the emission concept is correct it should be easily possible, and I have specific plans to emit an EV into a potential well on the surface of a dielectric and cause the EV to follow a somewhat circular but highly irregular path until dispursing at some point on the dielectric, without ever reaching a conducting anode. The oscillation frequency and EM emission or the visible path of the EV oscillating would be clear proof of the existence of the EV as a discrete entity, and not simply a plasma current conduit from point A to point B. [1999 note - this experiment did not work due to the fact the EV could not be generated without an exposed metal anode present.] I put together a quick experiment to check out this "EV emission" concept, to see if the emission is strictly a cathode event, i.e. to see if conditions at the witness plate anode could affect EV emission at the cathode point. If the anode conditions have no effect then a difinitive proof of EV existence experiment is available. THE APPARATUS The following is in reference to FIG. 1 and FIG. 2. A combined "witness plate" and EV guide was made by taping a 3 3/8" long, 7/16" wide piece of foil to a vectorboard with holes 10 to an inch, which was used for pegs for mounting other components. Appx 1 1/4" away from the edge of the foil and about 1" from the end of the foil a metal peg was mounted and the head of a a 1" long safety pin was soldered to the metal pin, as was a HV insulated lead for connection to a HV negative source. The end of the foil furthest from the pin had an extension of foil that was wrapped around a pin about 1/2" away from where the flat witness foil ended. The foil was held in place on the pin by an allegator clip connected to a positive lead of a power supply. The safety pin was unfolded to 45 degrees and bent on about a 60 degree angle from the veritcal and placed in the center of the foil, but on top of two microscope slides. The microscope slides were 2 3/8" long, 3/4" wide, and 53/1000" thick. This slides were superimposed upon each other and placed so the end of the slides towards the anode lead of the foil was 9/32 of an inch from the point of the pin. Call this horizontal spark gap distance Gh. There is then a vertical spark gap distance, Gv = 2(53/1000") = 106/100", giving a total spark gap distance of Gt = Gv + Gh = 0.39". O (HV negative lead peg) \ --------o------------------------ | / Glass Slides | ------------------|-----/----------------- | | Foil | * | | |-----------------|----------------------- | | | | | --------------------------------- | O (HV positive lead peg) Note - foil is under both slides which are under cathode point. * - EV emission point - EV termination point on witness foil FIG. 1 - Top Viev o Cathode / / -----*--------------------------- | Slide 1 | --------------------------------- | Slide 2 | --------------------------------- |---------------- ------------------------ Foil Anode * - EV emission point - EV termination point on witness foil FIG. 2 - Side View The power supply used was pulsed DC and was made from a Sears gas grill ignitor. (Removed in 1993 for similar experiments on EV's. I have to use matches now. My wife is a wonderful lady.) See FIG. 3 below. ------------------------------------------------ | D1 | | ------|>|------B1---------- | | C | | | ----| |---------| |----- | | | ------|<|------> |-------- D2 | Witness pate (-) (+) Bi - Xenon flash bulb used for back stroke relief spark gap, 1.3 cm length C - Piezo Crystal, appx.15 kV ouput. Di - 35 Kv PIV diodes FIG. 3 - Pulse Power Supply THE EXPERIMENTAL CONTROL The glass slides were moved about until the spark was the longest that consistently made the gap Gt. Gh = 9/32", giving a total spark gap distance of Gt =0.39". It was found that at Gh = 5/16 the spark made the jump faily consistenly, but always did not make a jump on the first piezo strike and would not make the jump more than about 2/3 of the time. At Gh = 11/16 the spark would not jump. THE EXPERIMENT o Cathode / / -----*--------------------------- | Slide 1 | ------------------------------------- | Slide 2 | --------------------------------- |---------------- ------------------------ Foil Anode * EV emission point EV termination point on witness foil (for control experiment) FIG. 4 - Side View The end of slide one was left positioned so Gh = 9/16", just like the control. However, Slide 2, the bottom slide, was slid toward the anode by 5/16" as shown in FIG. 4. No spark could be made to jump despite repeated piezo strikes. Slide 1 was slid away from the anode to make Gh only 1/2", but still there was no spark. INTERPRETATION OF RESULTS During the experiment, as shown in FIG. 4, the cathode conditions are exactly as in the control, except possibly there is even slightly increased field strength at the cathode due to more of the nearby volume between the termination point and the EV emission point being filled with a dielectric. Despite similar or better emission conditions at the cathode, i.e. a slightly stronger field gradient, no visible spark occurred. This implies that conditions at the anode are not only important but necessary to the process. The primary difference betweent the experiment and the control is the ability for current to flow from the plate toward the cathode in the control. The EV emission event must be preceeded by and require a current flow from the anode. FOLLOW-UP EXPERIMENT For general interest, a 7/16" square witness plate (call the intermediate plate) was placed under the end of Slide 1 directly above the EV termination point for the control and on top of Slide 2. Slide 2 was slid forward another 1/2" to prevent sparking from the intermediate plate to the 3 3/8" strip of foil. No sparks were observed. However, after numerous tries, and changeing Gh to 3/32", two sparks were seen jumping to the intermediate witness plate. It is not known if very small sparks or dark sparks jumped from the intermediate witness plate to the bottom foil strip. It is known that the intermediate plate forms a capacitor with the bottom strip, so should be able to take sparks from the point cathode in an AC situation or during an inital DC pulse. FUTURE POSSIBLE IMPROVEMENTS The glass slides were not wide enough to eliminate the possibility that invisible sparks were getting around them. Larger thin plate glass squares would be better. The "witness plates" were nearly useless as true "witness plates" because the foil was not very smooth under a microscope and it was difficult to tell if spark spots or simply prior wear and tear marks were being observed when looking at the foil under a roughly 20x stereo microscope. Much care and a smaller witness plate should be used, as well as a smoother foil, maybe gold leaf. Despite these reservations, it seems that the conclusion that the anode condition dramatically affects the emission at the cathode is fairly well established. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 10:25:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA08003; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:24:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:24:08 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 13:22:40 EDT Subject: Re: Palladium Cloth? To: vortex-L eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"aggTv3.0.zy1.u25Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27395 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ed, The arrival of your conveniently bound collection of papers inspired me to ask about palladium cloth again. Other experimenters have had some success with thin rods or wires. Arata & Zhang 1997 commented that they didn't think that "bunched up many small wires" (p. 43) would work, but that looked like a comment on wire bundles rather than wire cloth. You and others have also thought that a high surface area might help. Palladium cloth might be available as a highly uniform weave of thin wires and offer a high surface area. In the fabric world, I think that there is a distinction between gauze and cloth, with the latter being more uniform in structure. It might be the same in the metal world, especially with a precious metal like palladium. Has anyone ever tried palladium cloth as a cathode? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 10:26:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA08082; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:24:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:24:22 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 13:22:42 EDT Subject: Re: More from Mizuno (W&H) To: vortex-L eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"cNa9p.0.C-1.635Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27396 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In message Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990514153553.007a5c50 pop.mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:35:53 -0400, Jed Rothwell wrote, re the effect in an Ohmori plasma electrolysis cell: "Another reason to doubt that it is occuring in the plasma is the fact that when you increase voltage above the critical level, the plasma glows more brightly but the excess heat effect extinguishes. They say "we have not measured the precise increase in brightness, but it is readily observable to the naked eye."" Some questions for Jed, Gene, Ed Wall, or anyone else who's seen a working plasma electrolysis cell: At what voltage does the plasma appear? Does the excess heat appear as soon as the plasma does? Did Mizuno and Ohmori say how the brightness of the plasma increases with voltage? Is there a range of voltage in which the brightness appears the same to the eye, and then changes abruptly as the threshold is crossed, or does the brightness increase fairly linearly with the voltage? Is there a range of voltage in which the size of the plasma area remains roughly the same, or does that increase linearly with voltage as well? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 10:38:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA14543; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:36:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:36:50 -0700 Message-ID: <37405416.5AF0 interlaced.net> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 13:38:30 -0400 From: "Francis J. Stenger" Organization: NASA (Retired) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: HAARP References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LU-rz1.0.9Z3.nE5Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27397 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > Not very giant. The Ark is 3.75 long, 2.25 feet wide, and 2.25 feet high, > not counting the lid with two angels and protruding angel wings. Frank > Stenger has a much bigger capacitor in his Barn. Hmmmmm... That may explain why the stern, yet fatherly voice I hear becomes much louder when the caps are at full charge! Frank Stenger From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 11:05:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA22765; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:01:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:01:48 -0700 Message-ID: <37405877.D715881C earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:57:11 -0600 From: "Richard T. Murray" Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: DD <11111119 lava.net>, Vince Goetsch <3wishes@wishgranted.com>, "Joe Portman Sr." , alienvisitor@onelist.com, Antarah Rose , John Berry , ark@millennium-ark.net, "Dennis C. Lee" , b25b@LCIA.COM, Beulah , bill@basselectronics.com, biotron pacbell.net, candace1@usa.net, celiag@email.com, michael romack , dawnames@hotmail.com, lkvp mail.awod.com, Design73@aol.com, DiMaDuBo@aol.com, "Don J. S. Adams" , "David Nichols later:dpnichols apex.net" , David Taylor , dwenbert@spacey.net, Mattias , Eliria99@aol.com, Ed Wall , freenrg-l@eskimo.com, goldbug worldaccessnet.com, Heather and Andrew Tinley , Henry.Scudder West.Boeing.com.Scudder, Henry.J@aol.com, John Schnurer , "John H.St.John" , David House , JADE , InTheShadows@onelist.com, Jaldinshah aol.com, "Jorg D. Ostrowski" , jkinsley beyond-the-illusion.com, johnhoffman@webtv.net, John Hunter , Julie Reiner , Kelly Larsen , Karen Mohler , Thomas Spellman , Terri Schoolden , Martha , mark3@mindspring.com, markland rockisland.com, Webmaster-Terry/Mccloud , Mike Connolly , Marsha Doyenne , "Jane G. Stilwell" , MikeSeiler@aol.com, Mike Kolesar , mysteries , NTC COM-Center , Dan Nightwolf , nhne@nhne.com, nichols cybrtime.com, oleprospector@worldaccessnet.com, paranormal-l , Peterseile@aol.com, PetMagic aol.com, piercemark@hotmail.com, Plasmatic , ponski soft-link.com, powerfd@gte.net, Quinney , Reality_Pump2 onelist.com, richarda@icx.net, rolfe_hauser@hotmail.com, rtoler cland.net, Robin van Spaandonk , SedonaY2K mail-list.com, seer7@netusa1.net, "George A. Abbott" , Serwitz@aol.com, Sharon , Shekhina Canyon , Sheree Schmidt , spot , Tom , TB4299@aol.com, ron kita , Henri Calitri , John Michaels , Micheal , trknute@earthlink.net, UFOLAWYER1 aol.com, unexplained , visited , werosser@hotmail.com, y2k-survival infostream.net, Y2K , David Openheimer Subject: hoax: E-mail FEES, manditory & automatic...? References: <5e03907c.2471a185 aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XF7Na3.0.dZ5.Bc5Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27398 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 17, 1999 An internet hoax, i.e. a "message virus", an alarming message that motivates recepients to spread it exponentailly. Rich Murray UNIR2B1NM aol.com wrote: > > (Messages such as "unsubscribe" are welcome, to: UNIR2B1NM aol.com --"You & I > Are To Be One in Him"--a declaration of Dialectical/Christian > philosophy/faith). > ---------------------------------------------- > > << Orig. msg. from C. Ed Copeland, drcec getnet.com > > Read the following and pass it on to everyone you know: > > Dear Internet Subscriber: > > Please read the following carefully if you intend to stay online > and continue using email: The last few months have revealed an > alarming trend in the Government of the United States attempting > to quietly push through legislation that will affect your use of > the Internet. Under proposed legislation the U.S. Postal Service > will be attempting to bilk email users out of "alternate postage > fees". Bill 602P will permit the Federal Govt to charge a 5 cent > surcharge on every email delivered, by billing Internet Service > Providers at source. The consumer would then be billed in turn by > the ISP. Washington D.C. lawyer Richard Stepp is working without > pay to prevent this legislation from becoming law. The U.S. > Postal Service is claiming that lost revenue due to the > proliferation of email is costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue > per year. You may have noticed their recent ad campaign "There is > nothing like a letter". Since the average citizen received about > 10 pieces of email per day in 1998, the cost to the typical > individual would be an additional 50 cents per day, or over $180 > dollars per year, above and beyond their regular Internet costs. > Note that this would be money paid directly to the U.S. Postal > Service for a service they do not even provide. The whole point > of the Internet is democracy and non-interference. If the federal > government is permitted to tamper with our liberties by adding a > surcharge to email, who knows where it will end. You are already > paying an exorbitant price for snail mail because of bureacratic > efficiency. It currently takes up to 6 days for a letter to be > delivered from New York to Buffalo. If the U.S. Postal Service is > allowed to tinker with email, it will mark the end of the "free" > Internet in the United States. One congressman, Tony Schnell (R) > has even suggested a "twenty to forty dollar per month surcharge > on all Internet service" above and beyond the government's > proposed email charges. Note that most of the major newspapers > have ignored the story, the only exception being the > Washingtonian which called the idea of email surcharge "a useful > concept who's time has come" March 6th 1999 Editorial) Don't sit > by and watch your freedoms erode away! > > Send this email to all Americans on your list and tell your > friends and relatives to write to their congressman and say "No!" > to Bill 602P. Kate Turner Assistant to Richard Stepp, Berger, > Stepp and Gorman Attorneys at Law 216 Concorde Street, Vienna, > Va. > > ****************** > Why do liberals trust the bad guys to be good and expect the law- > abiding to be bad? >> From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 11:54:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA06251; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:50:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:50:33 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bea095$a71cb400$998f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Incandescent Iron Cathode Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 12:45:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"-Wa3_2.0.bX1.vJ6Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27399 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FWIW. Iron reacts exothermally with water to form H2: 2 Fe + 3 H2O -----> Fe2O3 + 3 H2 112 tons 54 tons 160 tons 6 tons Animal Manures (like most biomass) will work in a Blast Furnace to Reduce the Fe2O3 back to Fe and COx. Fluid Bed systems can replace the older type furnaces for faster thoughput, so to speak. This could be employed in disposal of Tyson's Chicken and Swine Manures in Arkansas and North Carolina. Lending a whole new meaning to the term, "Pig Iron". Right, Terry? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 12:25:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA19577; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:23:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 12:23:38 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37405877.D715881C earthlink.net> References: <5e03907c.2471a185 aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 14:21:40 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: hoax: E-mail FEES, manditory & automatic...? Resent-Message-ID: <"IFIKS2.0.jn4.vo6Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27400 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >May 17, 1999 An internet hoax, i.e. a "message virus", an alarming >message that motivates recepients to spread it exponentailly. >Rich Murray ***{It is, indeed, an alarming message that motivates recipients to spread it exponentially. (It sure as hell motivated me. :-) The question is: why do you think it is a hoax? Since you didn't give a reason, you seem to be suggesting that we ignore all alarming messages, even if they are very, very plausible, as is the case here. (Our rights are being ripped away from us every day that congress is in session, for "reasons" very much like those stated in this so called hoax.) Needless to say, I hope you can justify your position. I have enough to worry about already, without having to add the destruction of the internet to the list. --Mitchell Jones}*** [rest snipped] From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 12:31:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA22398; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:29:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 12:29:07 -0700 Message-ID: <37406DC7.84FAC566 bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 15:28:08 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Incandescent Iron Cathode References: <000501bea095$a71cb400$998f85ce default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZRvXi1.0.uT5.3u6Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27401 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is that bar stock or inguts? Frederick Sparber wrote: > > FWIW. Iron reacts exothermally with water to form H2: > > 2 Fe + 3 H2O -----> Fe2O3 + 3 H2 > 112 tons 54 tons 160 tons 6 tons > > Animal Manures (like most biomass) will work in a Blast Furnace to Reduce > the Fe2O3 back to Fe and COx. Fluid Bed systems can replace the older type > furnaces for faster thoughput, so to speak. > > This could be employed in disposal of Tyson's Chicken and Swine Manures in > Arkansas and North Carolina. Lending a whole new meaning to the term, > "Pig Iron". Right, Terry? :-) > > Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 12:39:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA24148; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:32:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 12:32:23 -0700 Message-ID: <37406E35.77BC03B4 ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 13:30:08 -0600 From: Edmund Storms Organization: Energy K System X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Palladium Cloth? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"etaoS3.0.8v5.6x6Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27402 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tstolper aol.com wrote: > Ed, > > The arrival of your conveniently bound collection of papers inspired me to > ask about palladium cloth again. > > Other experimenters have had some success with thin rods or wires. Arata & > Zhang 1997 commented that they didn't think that "bunched up many small > wires" (p. 43) would work, but that looked like a comment on wire bundles > rather than wire cloth. You and others have also thought that a high surface > area might help. Yes, but all parts of the surface must see an electrolytic current. Any region to which deuterium ions are not presented is a region of loss, hence will not achieve the necessary composition. The sides and crossing points of wires in a wire cloth would be shielded from the current. Therefore, only a small fraction of the surface would be able to achieve the required composition. It is hard enough to get a piece of palladium to load without this handicap. > > Palladium cloth might be available as a highly uniform weave of thin wires > and offer a high surface area. In the fabric world, I think that there is a > distinction between gauze and cloth, with the latter being more uniform in > structure. It might be the same in the metal world, especially with a > precious metal like palladium. > > Has anyone ever tried palladium cloth as a cathode? No, not as far as I know. Ed Storms From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 12:40:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA27946; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:37:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 12:37:28 -0700 Message-ID: <001901bea09c$37565660$998f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <000501bea095$a71cb400$998f85ce default> <37406DC7.84FAC566@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Incandescent Iron Cathode Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 13:33:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"o2KT83.0.aq6.u_6Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27403 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Blanton To: Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 1:28 PM Subject: Re: Incandescent Iron Cathode Depends on how you SMELT, Terry. :-) Frederick > Is that bar stock or inguts? > > > > Frederick Sparber wrote: > > > > FWIW. Iron reacts exothermally with water to form H2: > > > > 2 Fe + 3 H2O -----> Fe2O3 + 3 H2 > > 112 tons 54 tons 160 tons 6 tons > > > > Animal Manures (like most biomass) will work in a Blast Furnace to Reduce > > the Fe2O3 back to Fe and COx. Fluid Bed systems can replace the older type > > furnaces for faster thoughput, so to speak. > > > > This could be employed in disposal of Tyson's Chicken and Swine Manures in > > Arkansas and North Carolina. Lending a whole new meaning to the term, > > "Pig Iron". Right, Terry? :-) > > > > Regards, Frederick > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 13:10:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA17145; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 13:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:08:05 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: HAARP Resent-Message-ID: <"fE4bf3.0.lB4.lL7Gt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27404 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:29 PM 5/16/99, Horace Heffner wrote: [snip] >Using dimensions of 45" x 27" x 27" for the Ark, and assuming 1" thick wood >(less gives more capacitance, but less abiltity to carry stone tablets) we >have a maximum plate area of about 2(27x27)+4(27x45) = 1458 + 4860 = 6318 >in^2. Using a dielectric constant of 3 for wood, we get a maximum >capacitance of about 1.7 x 10^-9 Farads. > >The dielectric strength of wood is low, but you might get 300 KV across an >inch of wax impregnated wood, ignoring arc-around problems That gives a >maximum of about 45 J of stored energy in the ARK. Even with these >outlandish assumptions, it still does appear feasible to ionize a path 90 >miles long through the atmosphere with the resulting 45 J of energy. Ooops! Sorry. I forgot to convert inches to cm., so the above should have given 4.3 farads and 114 J as maximum possible values, but that doesn't change the main point, which is feasibility. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 13:32:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA16483; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:30:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 13:30:37 -0700 Message-ID: <19990517203139.9187.rocketmail web126.yahoomail.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 13:31:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry Wayne Decker Subject: RE: HAARP > Ancient Technology To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"PVoHI.0.R14.in7Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27405 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Gary et al! Speed of light does differ but restores its speed when it exits; http://wigner.byu.edu/LightRefract/LightRefract.html There is a comment in an old book that 'light can be made to yield sound'...waves successively divided would do that... Years ago, a few of us were thinking along the lines of having various refractory substances coupled together for the express purpose of slowing light down in stages, eventually to reach something useful...perhaps heat or even sound in a big enough 'pile'. I know a prism will produce the heat band but this was something a bit different. Townsend Brown referred to the construction of such piles using lead oxide (I believe) and other materials in a configuration like battery cells...he figured the gravity flow through this pile would eventuate to HEAT which could be used for practical purposes. I don't find any fault with the idea of using optical refraction that could lead even to physical vibration in a big enough 'pile' and with the right coupling...even melding of one optically refractive and eventuall other materials to one another. --- Gary Hawkins wrote: > > another set of images of interest; > > http://members.xoom.com/elgato76/pages/ancient.htm > > > > So where did they get the power to run whatever > these things DID? > > Backing up to how they first found out about > electricity... > > Thor finds a couple of rocks with very high metal > content, which > happen to be dissimilar metals, and throws them into > an urn with > salt-water. He notices some bubbling, covers the > urn, and that > night brings a friend to take a look. With torch > lit they > uncover the pot. Boom! Who discovered Brown's Gas? > Thor. > It only takes about a volt and half to separate the > atoms in water. > > So the wise men investigate the calamity. In their > own copper > pots they find that two of them next to each other > with one of > the rocks in each one will still result in the > bubbling as long > as the pots are in contact with each other, and as > long as the > water is from the Mediterranean sea, not the Nile. > And this > does not work with ceramic pots. They reason that > copper is > able to transfer this force, whatever it is. They > find that > a series of pots made of copper (or silver or gold > actually) > are able to increase the effect. And electricity is > born. > > A rough example I suppose, but there is a lot of > cheap slave labor > to be had. Where they would get frequency or high > voltages to > operate vacuum tubes is one I couldn't even > speculate on. But > those look like high-voltage insulators in the > picture. > > They were doing the same sort of investigations we > do today > except the range of knowledge is different. We > still don't > know what a magnetic field is, for example. > Speaking of that... > > There was talk of the speed of light being different > in a medium > that is more dense. I don't have time to check this > myself but > am curious whether a laser beam would be refracted > as it travels > between two rare-earth magnets being forced nearly > all the way > together at like poles. If so, it would be > interesting to know > if the refraction effect of two south poles forced > together > would be any different than two north poles. > > === ================================= Please respond to jdecker keelynet.com as I am writing from my work email of jwdatwork yahoo.com.........thanks! ================================= _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 21:01:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA13504; Mon, 17 May 1999 20:59:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 20:59:48 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 03:59:14 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3747e2cd.175758694 mail-hub> References: <3.0.1.32.19990517082351.00a4c2a0 mail.eden.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990517082351.00a4c2a0 mail.eden.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA13486 Resent-Message-ID: <"1koUT.0.wI3.qMEGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27406 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 17 May 1999 08:23:51 -0500, Scott Little wrote: [snip] >I would be most interested in learning how you would differentiate between >holes made by charge clusters and similar holes made by intense streams of >ordinary, separate electrons. [snip] This is actually a two edged sword. How do you know that all such holes aren't produced by charge clusters? IOW they may be more common than you expect. There may however be a possibility. I would expect a hole punched by a normal stream of electrons (or a BL plasma ball too for that matter), in paper or some plastics, to display charring around the edges due to oxidation. However if a charge cluster really "pushes" the electrons in its path out of the way, then this should also happen in the dielectric, so that the hole would be due to physical disruption of the matter itself, rather than oxidation. So the hole should have very clean edges with no charring. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 21:37:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA22829; Mon, 17 May 1999 21:36:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 21:36:12 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 19:49:56 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters Resent-Message-ID: <"g2wmw3.0.ca5.yuEGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27407 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 6:59 PM 5/17/99, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >This is actually a two edged sword. How do you know that all such holes >aren't produced by charge clusters? IOW they may be more common than you >expect. >There may however be a possibility. I would expect a hole punched by a >normal stream of electrons (or a BL plasma ball too for that matter), in >paper or some plastics, to display charring around the edges due to >oxidation. However if a charge cluster really "pushes" the electrons in >its path out of the way, then this should also happen in the dielectric, >so that the hole would be due to physical disruption of the matter >itself, rather than oxidation. So the hole should have very clean edges >with no charring. If ten percent of all arc current were charge clusters all arcs would be way over unity because the mechanism for creating the balls would take far less energy than would be released by disruption of the balls followed by kinetic expansion. Even without the EV balls, high current density sparks evacuate molecules along their path. Further, ejecta from bored holes would tend to keep oxygen out of the holes while they are their hottest. I am not familiar with the more recent Shoulders work on electron boring, only the older EV work described in his patents and book. What kind of dielectric material is he boring through? He tended to work with ceramics that were already oxides or in reduced states, like alumina or silicates, for his EV device substrates. "Charring" seems to imply carbon based dielectrics, plastics. Is that correct? An observation regarding the difficulty of proving the existence of EV's: they are said to tend to form chains or rings or chains of rings of EV's This characteristic makes definitive detection by identifying single balls very difficult, as well as making it difficult to distinguish them from noisy waveforms within an arc. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 21:43:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA25145; Mon, 17 May 1999 21:42:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 21:42:36 -0700 Message-ID: <3740EEEB.CE92217E earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 22:39:07 -0600 From: "Richard T. Murray" Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: hoax: numbers don't make sense References: <5e03907c.2471a185 aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o4kKD2.0.m86.y-EGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27408 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 17, 1999 Hello Mitchell Jones, Numbers don't make sense: "Since the average citizen received about 10 pieces of email per day in 1998, the cost to the typical individual would be an additional 50 cents per day, or over $180 dollars per year, above and beyond their regular Internet costs." About 100 million email users in USA would mean the tax would total $ 18000 million = $ 18 billion. Compare that to: "The U.S. Postal Service is claiming that lost revenue due to the proliferation of email is costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per year." That's about 80 times less than the proposed tax. Regards, Rich Murray Mitchell Jones wrote: > > >May 17, 1999 An internet hoax, i.e. a "message virus", an alarming > >message that motivates recepients to spread it exponentailly. > >Rich Murray > > ***{It is, indeed, an alarming message that motivates recipients to spread > it exponentially. (It sure as hell motivated me. :-) The question is: why > do you think it is a hoax? Since you didn't give a reason, you seem to be > suggesting that we ignore all alarming messages, even if they are very, > very plausible, as is the case here. (Our rights are being ripped away from > us every day that congress is in session, for "reasons" very much like > those stated in this so called hoax.) Needless to say, I hope you can > justify your position. I have enough to worry about already, without having > to add the destruction of the internet to the list. --Mitchell Jones}*** > > [rest snipped] From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 22:05:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA00051; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:04:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 22:04:36 -0700 Message-ID: <3740F4DC.378BEBD0 ihug.co.nz> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 17:04:28 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: hoax: numbers don't make sense References: <5e03907c.2471a185 aol.com> <3740EEEB.CE92217E@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NpGB31.0.j.ZJFGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27409 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I suggest you get a better ISP if your paying that much. "Richard T. Murray" wrote: > May 17, 1999 Hello Mitchell Jones, Numbers don't make sense: > > "Since the average citizen received about > 10 pieces of email per day in 1998, the cost to the typical > individual would be an additional 50 cents per day, or over $180 > dollars per year, above and beyond their regular Internet costs." > > About 100 million email users in USA would mean the tax would total > $ 18000 million = $ 18 billion. Compare that to: > > "The U.S. Postal Service is claiming that lost revenue due to the > proliferation of email is costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue > per year." > > That's about 80 times less than the proposed tax. > > Regards, Rich Murray > > Mitchell Jones wrote: > > > > >May 17, 1999 An internet hoax, i.e. a "message virus", an alarming > > >message that motivates recepients to spread it exponentailly. > > >Rich Murray > > > > ***{It is, indeed, an alarming message that motivates recipients to spread > > it exponentially. (It sure as hell motivated me. :-) The question is: why > > do you think it is a hoax? Since you didn't give a reason, you seem to be > > suggesting that we ignore all alarming messages, even if they are very, > > very plausible, as is the case here. (Our rights are being ripped away from > > us every day that congress is in session, for "reasons" very much like > > those stated in this so called hoax.) Needless to say, I hope you can > > justify your position. I have enough to worry about already, without having > > to add the destruction of the internet to the list. --Mitchell Jones}*** > > > > [rest snipped] From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 22:09:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA01199; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:08:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 22:08:13 -0700 Message-ID: <3740F5BA.3B82FED0 ihug.co.nz> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 17:08:11 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: hoax: numbers don't make sense References: <5e03907c.2471a185 aol.com> <3740EEEB.CE92217E@earthlink.net> <3740F4DC.378BEBD0@ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7laxi3.0.fI.yMFGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27410 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Oh, I didn't read the earlier post. whoops John Berry wrote: > I suggest you get a better ISP if your paying that much. > > "Richard T. Murray" wrote: > > > May 17, 1999 Hello Mitchell Jones, Numbers don't make sense: > > > > "Since the average citizen received about > > 10 pieces of email per day in 1998, the cost to the typical > > individual would be an additional 50 cents per day, or over $180 > > dollars per year, above and beyond their regular Internet costs." > > > > About 100 million email users in USA would mean the tax would total > > $ 18000 million = $ 18 billion. Compare that to: > > > > "The U.S. Postal Service is claiming that lost revenue due to the > > proliferation of email is costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue > > per year." > > > > That's about 80 times less than the proposed tax. > > > > Regards, Rich Murray > > > > Mitchell Jones wrote: > > > > > > >May 17, 1999 An internet hoax, i.e. a "message virus", an alarming > > > >message that motivates recepients to spread it exponentailly. > > > >Rich Murray > > > > > > ***{It is, indeed, an alarming message that motivates recipients to spread > > > it exponentially. (It sure as hell motivated me. :-) The question is: why > > > do you think it is a hoax? Since you didn't give a reason, you seem to be > > > suggesting that we ignore all alarming messages, even if they are very, > > > very plausible, as is the case here. (Our rights are being ripped away from > > > us every day that congress is in session, for "reasons" very much like > > > those stated in this so called hoax.) Needless to say, I hope you can > > > justify your position. I have enough to worry about already, without having > > > to add the destruction of the internet to the list. --Mitchell Jones}*** > > > > > > [rest snipped] From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 17 23:34:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA21156; Mon, 17 May 1999 23:34:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 23:34:22 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 06:33:48 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <374b0931.185589767 mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA21139 Resent-Message-ID: <"5rPBP.0.UA5.kdGGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27411 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 17 May 1999 19:49:56 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote: [snip] >I am not familiar with the more recent Shoulders work on electron boring, >only the older EV work described in his patents and book. What kind of >dielectric material is he boring through? He tended to work with ceramics >that were already oxides or in reduced states, like alumina or silicates, >for his EV device substrates. "Charring" seems to imply carbon based >dielectrics, plastics. Is that correct? [snip] Yes, that's what I said in my previous post, paper or some plastics. Mind you, this is just an idea, not something I have tried. I have a vague recollection of Ken having mentioned something along these lines, but I may be mistaken. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 01:01:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA06709; Tue, 18 May 1999 01:00:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 01:00:55 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 23:14:34 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters Resent-Message-ID: <"dr4_B.0.he1.suHGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27412 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 9:33 PM 5/17/99, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >Yes, that's what I said in my previous post, paper or some plastics. Oh, yes, I see it now that you mention it - I somehow overlooked it. >Mind you, this is just an idea, not something I have tried. I have a >vague recollection of Ken having mentioned something along these lines, >but I may be mistaken. I don't know about EV's, but I do know from first hand experience that a 7500 V 30 mA discharge to the arm and out the nails in the heels of the shoes causes small blackened edge holes to be burnt into the heel leather. 8^) Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 05:42:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA11572; Tue, 18 May 1999 05:41:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 05:41:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199905181239.IAA18442 mercury.mv.net> Subject: Message from Jacques Benveniste Date: Tue, 18 May 99 08:39:28 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA11556 Resent-Message-ID: <"WxJBe3.0.kq2.T_LGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27413 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vortexians: I am passing this on from Dr. Truzzi. I had seen the Time Magazine article on Benveniste. It was in either this or the last issue. Don't have it at my finger tips. Perhaps someone else will post it. Gene Mallove Dr. Benveniste has asked me to help him post this as widely as possible. So here it is. --Marcello Truzzi --------- A warning to all those involved in the APS trial: I read in WHAT'S NEW by Robert L. Park Friday, 14 May 99 Washington, DC the following sentence: "3. THE CHALLENGE: HOMEOPATHY VIA THE INTERNET. As revealed by Time Magazine this week, I have been in discussions with Brian Josephson (1973 Nobel Prize in Physics) over a protocol for a proposed double-blind trial of the claims of French homeopathist Jacques Benveniste." Well, my position is utterly simple: I shall immediately cut all relationship with anybody calling me an "homeopathist". It is not that I consider this as derogatory; it is that this "innocent" wording is in fact a manipulation aimed at confining our research into a ghetto, that of "alternative science". Anybody willing to be informed and abiding by the elementary rules of scientific or press ethics should know, print and possibly comment what is on our website: we record and transfer the molecular signal, whatever the concentration of the source. What Leon Jaroff printed in Time Magazine reflects Leon Jaroff's obsessions and has nothing to do with informed and objective journalism. The surprise is that a magazine of the reputation of Time opens its columns to such a gross disfiguration. The experiment with the APS (which is a far cry from what is described by RL Park, who seems to never bother to check its sources) shall bear on the "transmission to a biological system of a recorded specific biological signal". Period. A signal is a signal is a signal. Anybody calling it homeo-, allo-, or whathaveyouo-pathic, simply shows his/her inability to comprehend the fundamentals of this research. A bon entendeur, salut! J. Benveniste, MD, Ancien Interne des Hôpitaux de Paris; Ancien Chef de Clinique (Endocrinology, Intensive care); Directeur de Recherche (I) à L'INSERM; Médaille d'Argent du CNRS for the discovery of Platelet-Activating Factor; member, American Association of Immunologists (1974); Chevalier de l'Ordre du Mérite. ------------------------------------------ PLEASE NOTE MODIFIED E-MAIL ADDRESS BELOW ------------------------------------------ Dr. Jacques Benveniste, Laboratoire de Biologie Numérique Digital Biology Laboratory, 32, rue des Carnets, F-92140 Clamart Tel : +33 (0)1 46 01 58 40 Fax : +33 (0)1 46 31 02 77 GSM : +33(0)6 09 68 25 01 See also --------------------------------- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 06:06:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA25971; Tue, 18 May 1999 06:03:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 06:03:03 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3740EEEB.CE92217E earthlink.net> References: <5e03907c.2471a185 aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 07:51:13 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: hoax: numbers don't make sense Resent-Message-ID: <"N7FXo.0.fL6.7KMGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27414 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >May 17, 1999 Hello Mitchell Jones, Numbers don't make sense: > >"Since the average citizen received about >10 pieces of email per day in 1998, the cost to the typical >individual would be an additional 50 cents per day, or over $180 >dollars per year, above and beyond their regular Internet costs." > >About 100 million email users in USA would mean the tax would total >$ 18000 million = $ 18 billion. Compare that to: > >"The U.S. Postal Service is claiming that lost revenue due to the >proliferation of email is costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue >per year." > >That's about 80 times less than the proposed tax. > >Regards, Rich Murray ***{Hi Rich. As you may have surmised from my other posts, I have become convinced that this message was, indeed, a hoax, though not because of problems with the numbers. (I see posts all the time where there are problems with the numbers--sometimes including my own--and yet there is no hoax.) What convinced me was the fact, first noted here by Bill Briggs, that the same message appeared several days ago in Canada, with only a few differences which rendered it specific to that country. --Mitchell Jones}*** > >Mitchell Jones wrote: >> >> >May 17, 1999 An internet hoax, i.e. a "message virus", an alarming >> >message that motivates recepients to spread it exponentailly. >> >Rich Murray >> >> ***{It is, indeed, an alarming message that motivates recipients to spread >> it exponentially. (It sure as hell motivated me. :-) The question is: why >> do you think it is a hoax? Since you didn't give a reason, you seem to be >> suggesting that we ignore all alarming messages, even if they are very, >> very plausible, as is the case here. (Our rights are being ripped away from >> us every day that congress is in session, for "reasons" very much like >> those stated in this so called hoax.) Needless to say, I hope you can >> justify your position. I have enough to worry about already, without having >> to add the destruction of the internet to the list. --Mitchell Jones}*** >> >> [rest snipped] From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 06:33:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA04960; Tue, 18 May 1999 06:33:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 06:33:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990518083422.00a46be8 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 08:34:22 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: timely paper Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"okD041.0.QD1.JmMGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27415 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gnorts, Ken Shoulders just sent me a PDF version of a 1999 paper entitled "Charge Clusters in Action" that was presented at the Conference on Future Energy held in Bethesda, MD. He gave me permission to place it on our web site and I have done so. Go to the EarthTech home page (link below in my sig file) and you will see this link: NEW: 1999 Paper by Ken & Steve Shoulders Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 07:46:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA30493; Tue, 18 May 1999 07:45:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 07:45:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199905181443.KAA19560 mercury.mv.net> Subject: Hal Plotkin's Latest SF Gate on Cold Fusion Date: Tue, 18 May 99 10:44:03 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA30469 Resent-Message-ID: <"UnQ6C2.0.NS7.GqNGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27416 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vortexians: Hal Plotkin has another fine article on the SF Gate www site: http://www.sfgate.com/technology/beat/ This is part of the www site of the San Francisco Chronicle and the San Francisco Examiner The latest is : The War Against Cold fusion What's Really Behind It Hal Plotkin, special to SF Gate This magnificent piece is the FIRST article in eight years by any independent science journalist to cover the scandal and fraud‹and cover-up of fraud‹ that occurred at MIT *against* cold fusion in 1989. This HeavyWatergate scandal is fully documented in Issue #24 of Infinite Energy Magazine's "Cold Fusion and MIT: A Special Report." Best wishes, Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief Infinite Energy Magazine Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. P.O. Box 2816 Concord, NH 03302-2816 Ph: 603-228-4516 Fax: 603-224-5975 editor infinite-energy.com www.infinite-energy.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 08:00:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA01126; Tue, 18 May 1999 07:58:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 07:58:31 -0700 Message-ID: <003801bea13e$6425dd80$c5b4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Fw: Warning Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 08:53:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"NKnv6.0.WH.N0OGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27417 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > -----Original Message----- > Subject: FW: Warning ______________________________________________________________________ > > >As scientists and concerned citizens, we applaud the recent trend in > >legislation requiring the prominent placement of warnings on products that > >present hazards to the general public. Yet we must also offer the > >cautionary thought that such warnings, however well-intentioned, merely > >scratch the surface of what is really necessary in this important area. > >This is especially true in light of the findings of 20th century physics. > >We are therefore proposing that, as responsible scientists, we join > >together in an intensive push for new laws that will mandate the > >conspicuous placement of suitably informative warnings on the packaging of > >every product offered for sale in the United States of America. Our > >suggested list of required warnings is as follows: > > > > > >WARNING: This product warps space and time in its vicinity. > > > >CAUTION: This product attracts every other piece of matter in the > > Universe, including products of other manufacturers, with a force > > proportional to the product of the masses and inversely proportional to > > the square of the distance between them. > > > >DANGER: The mass of this product contains the energy of 85 Million Tons of > > TNT per net ounce of weight. > > > >HANDLE WITH EXTREME CARE: This product contains minute electrically > > charged particles moving at velocities in excess of 500,000,000 miles > > per hour. > > > >CONSUMER NOTICE: Because of the "Uncertainty Principle," it is impossible > > for the consumer to determine at the same time both precisely where this > > product is and how fast it is moving, despite any manufacturer's claims > > to the contrary. > > > >PUBLIC ADVISORY: There is an extremely small but nonzero chance that, > > through a process known as "Tunneling," this product may spontaneously > > disappear from its present location and reappear at any random place in > > the Universe, including your neighbor's Domicile. The manufacturer will > > not be held responsible for any damages or inconvenience that may > > result. > > > >READ BEFORE OPENING: According to certain suggested versions of a Grand > > Unified Theory, the primary particles constituting this product may > > decay to nothingness within the next 400 Billion Years. > > > >EXTREME DANGER: THIS IS A 100% MATTER PRODUCT! Contact with antimatter in > > any form will result in a catastrophic explosion. > > > >PUBLIC NOTICE AS REQUIRED BY LAW: Any use of this product, in any manner > > whatsoever, will increase the amount of disorder in the Universe. > > Although no liability is implied herein, the consumer is warned that > > this will ultimately lead to the heat death of the Universe. > > > >NOTE: The most fundamental particles in this product are held together by > > a gluing force about which little is known and whose adhesive power can > > therefore not be permanently guaranteed. > > > >ATTENTION: Despite any other listing of product contents found hereon, the > > consumer is advised that, in actuality, this product consists of > > 99.9999999999% empty space. > > > >NEW GRAND UNIFIED THEORY DISCLAIMER: The manufacturer may technically be > > entitled to claim that this product is ten dimensional. However, the > > consumer is reminded that this confers no legal rights above and beyond > > those applicable to three dimensional objects, since the seven extra > > dimensions are "rolled up" into such a small "area" that they cannot be > > detected. > > > >BEWARE: Some quantum physics theories suggest that when the consumer is > > not directly observing this product, it may cease to exist or may only > > exist in a vague and undetermined state. > > > >COMPONENT EQUIVALENCY NOTICE: The subatomic particles (electrons, quarks, > > etc.) comprising this product are exactly the same in every measurable > > respect as those used in the products of other manufacturers, and no > > claim to the contrary may legitimately be expressed or implied. > > > >CAUTION: Care should be taken when lifting or otherwise moving this > > product since its mass and thus its weight are dependent on its velocity > > relative to the user. > > > >IMPORTANT NOTICE TO CONSUMERS: The entire physical Universe, including > > this product, may one day collapse back into an infinitesimally small > > space. Should another Universe subsequently re-emerge, the existence of > > this product in that Universe cannot be guaranteed. > > > > > Gary Prideaux > DVK > Engineering Manager > (408) 436-0100 > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 08:01:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA02677; Tue, 18 May 1999 08:00:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 08:00:14 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990518100140.00a48b70 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:01:40 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: source of heat, charge clusters In-Reply-To: <37403754.29AF3536 ix.netcom.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990515015625.008ede30 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"b6IFZ3.0.af.z1OGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27418 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:35 5/17/99 -0600, Edmund Storms wrote: >If clusters would make neutrons after being created in a deuterium and >caused to impinge on PdD , then Tom Claytor should have seen their >production. I'm worrying about that. >I suggest you use as the >anode aluminum or zirconium which has been heated first in oxygen and >then in deuterium. Good idea...thanks. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 09:37:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA12364; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:35:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:35:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:35:03 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Bill B. in Boston Globe monday Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"72Dhv3.0._03.1RPGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27419 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I was interviewed recently about my "misconceptions in textbooks" website, and the result just appeared yesterday in the health/science section of the Boston Globe. The online version is here: 5/17/99 Boston Globe article http://www.globe.com/dailyglobe2/137/science/Textbooks_flunk_out+.shtml http://www.amasci.com/miscon/miscon.html If interested, check it out soon, since it's only supposed to be viewable for a couple of days (after that you have to pay $$) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 09:40:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA15076; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:38:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:38:31 -0700 Message-ID: <37419873.9F79163C ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:42:28 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: [Fwd:] Off Topic: Nigerian rip-off scheme? Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------83A2D72A2EB219CA22B2B5C8" Resent-Message-ID: <"PyXwQ2.0.Sh3.7UPGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27420 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------83A2D72A2EB219CA22B2B5C8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit May 18, 1999 Vortex, Unexpectedly got this e-mail. Interesting sucker-baiting, I think. Read and enjoy, but don't get involved! Your choice. -AK- PAUL EWUBA wrote: > Attention Akira, > . > We are making this contact with you because of the reliable information > available to us concerning your reputable and well organised company .This > information is so positive as to convince us that you would be capable to > provide us with a solution to a money transfer transaction of > U.S.$30,200,000.00.We are privy to your information courtesy the Chamber of > Commerce and Industry in Nigeria. > We are members of the special committee for budget and planning of the > Ministry of Petroleum.This committee is principally concerned with appraisal > and approval of contracts in order of priorities as regards capital projects > of the federal Military Government of Nigeria .With our positions we have > successfully secured for ourselves the sum. This amount was accumulated > through undeclared windfall from sales of crude oil during the Gulf war. > Hence, together with some of the top officials of the Nigerian National > Petroleum > Co-operation[NNPC] ,The Federal Ministry of Finance and The Central Bank of > Nigeria,we plan to transfer this amount into an over seas account by > awarding a none existent contract from my Ministry-NNPC.To this effect we > decided to contact you and ask for your assistance. > What we need from you is to provide us a very vital account into which the > fund will be transferred. My colleagues and I have agreed to compensate the > owner of the account used for this transaction with 30% of the total amount > remitted. We shall keep 60% and 10% reserved for taxes and other > miscellaneous expenses. > It may interest you to know that in 1994 a similar transaction was carried > out with one Signore Paolo Luigi, a director of Milano construezione > S.P.A.inTreviso-Italy. > After the agreement between us in which he was to take 10% of the total > sum,80% for us and 10% for taxes and miscellaneous .The documents were > signed by him and the funds were dully transferred into his account. We were > disappointed on our arrival in Italy to discover that Signore Paolo was no > where to be found.This was how we lost U.S.8.7M. > This time around we need a reliable and trustworthy person or a reputable > company to do business with hence we are sending you this letter. > What we need from you is the assurance that you will let us have our share > of this inflated amount. > If this proposal satisfies you , then mail back to me ,to enable us discuss > the modalities involved. Kindly treat as urgent and strictly confidential. > I honestly assure you that this transaction is 100% hitch-free. > I look forward to your urgent reply. > Thank you for your anticipated co-operation. > > Sincerely, > MR.PAUL EWUBA > e-mail:pewuba hotmail.com --------------83A2D72A2EB219CA22B2B5C8 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from engine2.hyperia.com ([208.243.226.163]) by ixmail10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7/(NETCOM v1.01)) with ESMTP id JAA19566; for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chifest ([208.243.227.190]) by engine2.hyperia.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 589-59447U4000L100S0) with SMTP id AAP8339 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 17:11:10 +0100 Message-ID: <001101bea141$27354020$03000004 chifest.hyperia.com> From: "PAUL EWUBA" To: Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 16:28:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Attention Akira, . We are making this contact with you because of the reliable information available to us concerning your reputable and well organised company .This information is so positive as to convince us that you would be capable to provide us with a solution to a money transfer transaction of U.S.$30,200,000.00.We are privy to your information courtesy the Chamber of Commerce and Industry in Nigeria. We are members of the special committee for budget and planning of the Ministry of Petroleum.This committee is principally concerned with appraisal and approval of contracts in order of priorities as regards capital projects of the federal Military Government of Nigeria .With our positions we have successfully secured for ourselves the sum. This amount was accumulated through undeclared windfall from sales of crude oil during the Gulf war. Hence, together with some of the top officials of the Nigerian National Petroleum Co-operation[NNPC] ,The Federal Ministry of Finance and The Central Bank of Nigeria,we plan to transfer this amount into an over seas account by awarding a none existent contract from my Ministry-NNPC.To this effect we decided to contact you and ask for your assistance. What we need from you is to provide us a very vital account into which the fund will be transferred. My colleagues and I have agreed to compensate the owner of the account used for this transaction with 30% of the total amount remitted. We shall keep 60% and 10% reserved for taxes and other miscellaneous expenses. It may interest you to know that in 1994 a similar transaction was carried out with one Signore Paolo Luigi, a director of Milano construezione S.P.A.inTreviso-Italy. After the agreement between us in which he was to take 10% of the total sum,80% for us and 10% for taxes and miscellaneous .The documents were signed by him and the funds were dully transferred into his account. We were disappointed on our arrival in Italy to discover that Signore Paolo was no where to be found.This was how we lost U.S.8.7M. This time around we need a reliable and trustworthy person or a reputable company to do business with hence we are sending you this letter. What we need from you is the assurance that you will let us have our share of this inflated amount. If this proposal satisfies you , then mail back to me ,to enable us discuss the modalities involved. Kindly treat as urgent and strictly confidential. I honestly assure you that this transaction is 100% hitch-free. I look forward to your urgent reply. Thank you for your anticipated co-operation. Sincerely, MR.PAUL EWUBA e-mail:pewuba hotmail.com --------------83A2D72A2EB219CA22B2B5C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 09:49:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA20755; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:47:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:47:11 -0700 From: mrb ap.net Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990518094931.00863ce0 mail.ap.net> X-Sender: mrb mail.ap.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:49:31 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd:] Off Topic: Nigerian rip-off scheme In-Reply-To: <37419873.9F79163C ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"mIMpr.0.D45.EcPGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27421 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 09:42 AM 5/18/99 -0700, you wrote: >May 18, 1999 > >Vortex, > >Unexpectedly got this e-mail. Interesting sucker-baiting, I think. Read and >enjoy, but don't get involved! Your choice. > >-AK- > Vo, This is a well known fraud and has collected millions from the gullible. If you receive anything like this I suggest you forward it to the local office of the FBI. Mark Goldes, Chairman & CEO, Magnetic Power Inc. >PAUL EWUBA wrote: > >> Attention Akira, >> . >> We are making this contact with you because of the reliable information >> available to us concerning your reputable and well organised company .This >> information is so positive as to convince us that you would be capable to >> provide us with a solution to a money transfer transaction of >> U.S.$30,200,000.00.We are privy to your information courtesy the Chamber of >> Commerce and Industry in Nigeria. >> We are members of the special committee for budget and planning of the >> Ministry of Petroleum.This committee is principally concerned with appraisal >> and approval of contracts in order of priorities as regards capital projects >> of the federal Military Government of Nigeria .With our positions we have >> successfully secured for ourselves the sum. This amount was accumulated >> through undeclared windfall from sales of crude oil during the Gulf war. >> Hence, together with some of the top officials of the Nigerian National >> Petroleum >> Co-operation[NNPC] ,The Federal Ministry of Finance and The Central Bank of >> Nigeria,we plan to transfer this amount into an over seas account by >> awarding a none existent contract from my Ministry-NNPC.To this effect we >> decided to contact you and ask for your assistance. >> What we need from you is to provide us a very vital account into which the >> fund will be transferred. My colleagues and I have agreed to compensate the >> owner of the account used for this transaction with 30% of the total amount >> remitted. We shall keep 60% and 10% reserved for taxes and other >> miscellaneous expenses. >> It may interest you to know that in 1994 a similar transaction was carried >> out with one Signore Paolo Luigi, a director of Milano construezione >> S.P.A.inTreviso-Italy. >> After the agreement between us in which he was to take 10% of the total >> sum,80% for us and 10% for taxes and miscellaneous .The documents were >> signed by him and the funds were dully transferred into his account. We were >> disappointed on our arrival in Italy to discover that Signore Paolo was no >> where to be found.This was how we lost U.S.8.7M. >> This time around we need a reliable and trustworthy person or a reputable >> company to do business with hence we are sending you this letter. >> What we need from you is the assurance that you will let us have our share >> of this inflated amount. >> If this proposal satisfies you , then mail back to me ,to enable us discuss >> the modalities involved. Kindly treat as urgent and strictly confidential. >> I honestly assure you that this transaction is 100% hitch-free. >> I look forward to your urgent reply. >> Thank you for your anticipated co-operation. >> >> Sincerely, >> MR.PAUL EWUBA >> e-mail:pewuba hotmail.com > > >Return-Path: >Received: from engine2.hyperia.com ([208.243.226.163]) > by ixmail10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7/(NETCOM v1.01)) with ESMTP id JAA19566; > for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:19:21 -0700 (PDT) >Received: from chifest ([208.243.227.190]) by engine2.hyperia.com > (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) > ID# 589-59447U4000L100S0) with SMTP id AAP8339 > for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 17:11:10 +0100 >Message-ID: <001101bea141$27354020$03000004 chifest.hyperia.com> >From: "PAUL EWUBA" >To: >Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 16:28:52 +0200 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Attention Akira, > . >We are making this contact with you because of the reliable information >available to us concerning your reputable and well organised company .This >information is so positive as to convince us that you would be capable to >provide us with a solution to a money transfer transaction of >U.S.$30,200,000.00.We are privy to your information courtesy the Chamber of >Commerce and Industry in Nigeria. >We are members of the special committee for budget and planning of the >Ministry of Petroleum.This committee is principally concerned with appraisal >and approval of contracts in order of priorities as regards capital projects >of the federal Military Government of Nigeria .With our positions we have >successfully secured for ourselves the sum. This amount was accumulated >through undeclared windfall from sales of crude oil during the Gulf war. >Hence, together with some of the top officials of the Nigerian National >Petroleum >Co-operation[NNPC] ,The Federal Ministry of Finance and The Central Bank of >Nigeria,we plan to transfer this amount into an over seas account by >awarding a none existent contract from my Ministry-NNPC.To this effect we >decided to contact you and ask for your assistance. >What we need from you is to provide us a very vital account into which the >fund will be transferred. My colleagues and I have agreed to compensate the >owner of the account used for this transaction with 30% of the total amount >remitted. We shall keep 60% and 10% reserved for taxes and other >miscellaneous expenses. >It may interest you to know that in 1994 a similar transaction was carried >out with one Signore Paolo Luigi, a director of Milano construezione >S.P.A.inTreviso-Italy. >After the agreement between us in which he was to take 10% of the total >sum,80% for us and 10% for taxes and miscellaneous .The documents were >signed by him and the funds were dully transferred into his account. We were >disappointed on our arrival in Italy to discover that Signore Paolo was no >where to be found.This was how we lost U.S.8.7M. >This time around we need a reliable and trustworthy person or a reputable >company to do business with hence we are sending you this letter. >What we need from you is the assurance that you will let us have our share >of this inflated amount. >If this proposal satisfies you , then mail back to me ,to enable us discuss >the modalities involved. Kindly treat as urgent and strictly confidential. >I honestly assure you that this transaction is 100% hitch-free. >I look forward to your urgent reply. >Thank you for your anticipated co-operation. > >Sincerely, >MR.PAUL EWUBA >e-mail:pewuba hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 10:23:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA03541; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:22:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:22:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3741A1B0.5563D3DE bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:21:52 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Message from Jacques Benveniste References: <199905181239.IAA18442 mercury.mv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cmzh-2.0.Bt.z6QGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27422 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "E.F. Mallove" wrote: > > Vortexians: > > I am passing this on from Dr. Truzzi. I had seen the Time Magazine article on Benveniste. It was in either this or the last issue. Don't have it at my finger tips. Perhaps someone else will post it. As you wish . . . From Leon Jerkoff himself: <><><><><><><><><> HEALTH MAY 17, 1999 VOL. 153 NO. 19 Homeopathic E-Mail Can the "memory" of molecules be transmitted via the Internet? BY LEON JAROFF Nobel laureate Brian Josephson was incensed. He had just read a column by physicist Robert Park poking fun at the work of a French biologist who maintains that the benefits of homeopathic medicine can be transmitted electronically. Josephson, who since winning the 1973 Nobel Prize for Physics has developed an interest in fringe sciences, fired off an e-mail challenge to Park, who promptly responded. Their exchange could lead to the first rigorous test of one of the world's most widely practiced alternative therapies. Homeopathy, simply defined, is a system for treating diseases with highly diluted solutions of substances that in large doses would produce the same symptoms. Although a few contested studies have shown a slight benefit over the placebo effect, most scientists scoff at current homeopathic practices, pointing out that some "remedies" are so diluted that no active substance remains. If so, how can they possibly do any good? Advocates suggest that during the dilution process, the characteristics of the active substance are transferred to the water molecules. Indeed, the French biologist, Jacques Benveniste, claimed in a 1988 report to Nature that he had proof that a homeopathic solution without a single molecule of a biologically active substance was still active. Attempts to reproduce his results were unsuccessful. Did that discourage Benveniste? Apparently not. His latest theory, and the cause of the current flap, is that the "memory" of water in a homeopathic solution has an electromagnetic "signature." This signature, he says, can be captured by a copper coil, digitized and transmitted by wire--or, for extra flourish, over the Internet--to a container of ordinary water, converting it to a homeopathic solution. In his challenge, Josephson suggested a randomized double-blind test. Park, a longtime critic of homeopathy, was delighted to accept and is now close to agreeing with Josephson on a protocol. In one proposal, samples of water, some of which have been given the Benveniste treatment, would be examined by the biologist himself, who would then attempt to identify which, if any, had been rendered homeopathic. Yet Benveniste seems hesitant. Some "variables," as he puts it, including financing, remain to be discussed. Until now, neither the effectiveness nor the putative mechanism of homeopathy has ever been subjected to what nonbelievers would call a scientifically valid test. Indeed, the U.S. National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, which has $50 million to spend this year for just this kind of trial, has yet to sponsor even preliminary tests. Now it may be upstaged by a laureate and a skeptic. --WITH REPORTING BY MICHAEL BRUNTON/LONDON AND BRUCE CRUMLEY/PARIS You've Got Mail Putting it to the test 1. A copper coil is wrapped around a bottle of homeopathic solution 2. Electromagnetic signals from the solution set up a current in the coil 3. Current variations are digitized and transmitted to a second, distant coil 4. Can signals from that coil turn pure water into a homeopathic potion? © 1999 TIME INC. NEW MEDIA From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 11:03:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA15634; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:02:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 11:02:25 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <2b163be4.247304f9 aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 14:01:29 EDT Subject: Re: Fire from Water To: vortex-L eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"fq_Wi1.0.Cq3.niQGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27423 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gene, This is one of those occasions when I wish I had TV set. (I didn't replace the old one after it conked out, because I'd watch too much. In addition to being a news junkie, I was also hooked on old movies and sitcoms, and documentaries, not to mention new movies, miniseries, and the occasional major sports event.) I hope you sell lots of copies of the video. Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 11:09:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA17949; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:08:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 11:08:37 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990518130958.009049c8 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:09:58 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: D3? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"WMVRK1.0.JO4.aoQGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27424 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is there such a thing as a D3 molecule? I'm looking at the mass spectrum of some research grade D2 gas I bought from Spectra Gases and I see a peak at mass 6! It is proportional to the D2 peak at mass 4 and the ratio of mass6/mass4 is 10^-4. It can't be tritium (i.e. T2) because there's no peak at mass 5 (DT) and, if it were T, the 50 L cylinder would contain about 1 Curie of tritium! See this spectrum at: http://www.eden.com/~little/ev/mass6.html Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 13:29:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02715; Tue, 18 May 1999 13:27:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:27:58 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990518132654.009563f0 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: Tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:27:44 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: D3? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990518130958.009049c8 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"x74x4.0.Lg.ErSGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27425 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Probably doubly charged C12 which gives you a 12:2 or 6:1 mass to charge ratio. Remember the print out is mass to charge ratio, and not really mass. rt At 01:09 PM 5/18/99 -0500, you wrote: >Is there such a thing as a D3 molecule? > >I'm looking at the mass spectrum of some research grade D2 gas I bought >from Spectra Gases and I see a peak at mass 6! It is proportional to the >D2 peak at mass 4 and the ratio of mass6/mass4 is 10^-4. It can't be >tritium (i.e. T2) because there's no peak at mass 5 (DT) and, if it were T, >the 50 L cylinder would contain about 1 Curie of tritium! > >See this spectrum at: > >http://www.eden.com/~little/ev/mass6.html > > > > > >Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little >Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA >512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 13:43:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA07933; Tue, 18 May 1999 13:40:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:40:05 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990518130958.009049c8 mail.eden.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:35:37 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: D3? Resent-Message-ID: <"_nw001.0.tx1.b0TGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27426 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Is there such a thing as a D3 molecule? > >I'm looking at the mass spectrum of some research grade D2 gas I bought >from Spectra Gases and I see a peak at mass 6! It is proportional to the >D2 peak at mass 4 and the ratio of mass6/mass4 is 10^-4. It can't be >tritium (i.e. T2) because there's no peak at mass 5 (DT) and, if it were T, >the 50 L cylinder would contain about 1 Curie of tritium! ***{Either your mass spectrometer is on the fritz, or the D3 molecule exists, or you've got yourself some atomic Li6, Scott. According to my Handbook, Li6 has a relative abundance of about .074 and an atomic mass is about 6.0169--which looks to be right on the money vis-a-vis your peak. It's not radioactive, but as to why it would be bouncing around in atomic form, I haven't the slightest idea. I think I would begin by seeing what's behind door number 1. :-) --Mitchell Jones}*** > >See this spectrum at: > >http://www.eden.com/~little/ev/mass6.html > > > > > >Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little >Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA >512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 13:54:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA14419; Tue, 18 May 1999 13:53:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:53:40 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990518155446.00a4f640 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:54:46 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: D3? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990518132654.009563f0 pop3.oro.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19990518130958.009049c8 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1u7uT.0.DX3.KDTGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27427 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 13:27 5/18/99 -0700, Ross Tessien wrote: >Probably doubly charged C12 which gives you a 12:2 or 6:1 mass to charge >ratio. Remember the print out is mass to charge ratio, and not really mass. Good point about m/q but I don't think this peak can be C++ because 1. It comes and goes with the D2 peak and stays in proportion to it. When I shut off the D2 flow, both the 4 and 6 peaks disappear...but the peak at 12 remains unchanged (I think it's C from pump oil molecule fragments) 2. The C+ (i.e. 12) peak is only about 3x higher in this spectrum...seems like C++ would be much less likely than 1/3 of the C+ ...then again, there could be some synergistic effect whereby the presence of D helps the C get into the ++ state....! Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 14:13:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA20380; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:10:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 14:10:58 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990518155446.00a4f640 mail.eden.com> References: <4.1.19990518132654.009563f0 pop3.oro.net> <3.0.1.32.19990518130958.009049c8 mail.eden.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 16:09:23 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: D3? Resent-Message-ID: <"2iNJ43.0.E-4.YTTGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27428 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >At 13:27 5/18/99 -0700, Ross Tessien wrote: >>Probably doubly charged C12 which gives you a 12:2 or 6:1 mass to charge >>ratio. Remember the print out is mass to charge ratio, and not really mass. > >Good point about m/q but I don't think this peak can be C++ because > >1. It comes and goes with the D2 peak and stays in proportion to it. When >I shut off the D2 flow, both the 4 and 6 peaks disappear...but the peak at >12 remains unchanged (I think it's C from pump oil molecule fragments) > >2. The C+ (i.e. 12) peak is only about 3x higher in this spectrum...seems >like C++ would be much less likely than 1/3 of the C+ > >...then again, there could be some synergistic effect whereby the presence >of D helps the C get into the ++ state....! ***{Or maybe it splits Li6 molecules into atomic form? ;-) I still think I would check behind door number 1. --MJ}*** > > > > > >Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little >Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA >512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 15:23:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA09135; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:21:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:21:40 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990518182316.0aca67a0 spectre.mitre.org> X-Sender: eachus spectre.mitre.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 18:23:16 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Robert I. Eachus" Subject: Re: D3? Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990518155446.00a4f640 mail.eden.com> References: <4.1.19990518132654.009563f0 pop3.oro.net> <3.0.1.32.19990518130958.009049c8 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"rSIJv1.0.bE2.qVUGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27429 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:54 PM 5/18/1999 -0500, Scott Little wrote: >At 13:27 5/18/99 -0700, Ross Tessien wrote: >>Probably doubly charged C12 which gives you a 12:2 or 6:1 mass to charge >>ratio. Remember the print out is mass to charge ratio, and not really mass. > >Good point about m/q but I don't think this peak can be C++ because > >1. It comes and goes with the D2 peak and stays in proportion to it. When >I shut off the D2 flow, both the 4 and 6 peaks disappear...but the peak at >12 remains unchanged (I think it's C from pump oil molecule fragments) > >2. The C+ (i.e. 12) peak is only about 3x higher in this spectrum...seems >like C++ would be much less likely than 1/3 of the C+ At first I was just as stumped, but then I remembered. There is no such thing as D3, but D3+ is fairly common. Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 15:24:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10574; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:23:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:23:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3741E8CF.67FB5035 mccir3.crmc2.univ-mrs.fr> Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 00:25:19 +0200 From: Jean-Paul Biberian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: D3? References: <3.0.1.32.19990518130958.009049c8 mail.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XyOJB3.0.8b2.GXUGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27430 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott, May be you don't remember it, but in 1989, at the University of Washington in Seattle, a grad student ran an experiment with an elcectrolytic cell connected to a mass spec. At their great surprise they saw mass 3, and assumed it was tritium or helium-3. However, soon after specialists in mass spectroscopy confirmed that H3 exists, and the University retracted with great embarassment. So I think your mass 6 peak is most likely D3. Jean-Paul Biberian Scott Little wrote: > Is there such a thing as a D3 molecule? > > I'm looking at the mass spectrum of some research grade D2 gas I bought > from Spectra Gases and I see a peak at mass 6! It is proportional to the > D2 peak at mass 4 and the ratio of mass6/mass4 is 10^-4. It can't be > tritium (i.e. T2) because there's no peak at mass 5 (DT) and, if it were T, > the 50 L cylinder would contain about 1 Curie of tritium! > > See this spectrum at: > > http://www.eden.com/~little/ev/mass6.html > > Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little > Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA > 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 15:38:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA17251; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:36:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:36:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990518153138.00961590 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: Tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:35:50 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: D3? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990518155446.00a4f640 mail.eden.com> References: <4.1.19990518132654.009563f0 pop3.oro.net> <3.0.1.32.19990518130958.009049c8 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6mB_71.0.TD4.LjUGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27431 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Go get your CRC Chemistry and Physics. Go to the table of : Elements: ionization energies H is 13.598 C is 11.26 24.383 So, if a C D collision has some amount of KE associated with it, then the C could be ionized a second time. It isn't that big a jump to have secondary reactions given a bunch of collisions in the plasma.??????????? rt At 03:54 PM 5/18/99 -0500, you wrote: >At 13:27 5/18/99 -0700, Ross Tessien wrote: >>Probably doubly charged C12 which gives you a 12:2 or 6:1 mass to charge >>ratio. Remember the print out is mass to charge ratio, and not really mass. > >Good point about m/q but I don't think this peak can be C++ because > >1. It comes and goes with the D2 peak and stays in proportion to it. When >I shut off the D2 flow, both the 4 and 6 peaks disappear...but the peak at >12 remains unchanged (I think it's C from pump oil molecule fragments) > >2. The C+ (i.e. 12) peak is only about 3x higher in this spectrum...seems >like C++ would be much less likely than 1/3 of the C+ > >...then again, there could be some synergistic effect whereby the presence >of D helps the C get into the ++ state....! > > > > > >Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little >Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA >512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 15:38:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA18058; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:37:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:37:36 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:51:20 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: D3? Resent-Message-ID: <"IkMs-2.0.0Q4.mkUGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27432 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 1:09 PM 5/18/99, Scott Little wrote: >Is there such a thing as a D3 molecule? > >I'm looking at the mass spectrum of some research grade D2 gas I bought >from Spectra Gases and I see a peak at mass 6! It is proportional to the >D2 peak at mass 4 and the ratio of mass6/mass4 is 10^-4. It can't be >tritium (i.e. T2) because there's no peak at mass 5 (DT) and, if it were T, >the 50 L cylinder would contain about 1 Curie of tritium! > >See this spectrum at: > >http://www.eden.com/~little/ev/mass6.html Two cents: There is plenty reason to believe an H3 or D3 molecule can not exist long term. However, there is good reason to think a D3+ ion can exist long term, due to the powerful afffinity of the three deuterons for the two electrons, with no prospect for shielding to occur for any particle to escape in low energy conditions. However, the formation of an orbital about the odd man out by impingement of a third electron should create a repulsion sufficient to separate the D2 and H, but with no third electron handy, the two electrons end up playing musical chairs, sharing multiple orbitals, and the three nucleii are bound. The fact that this happens in a similar fashion in the formation of H3O+ in water is grounds to think it can happen in gaseous hydrogen in formation a D3+ molecule. However, I am surprised this is happening in a mass spectrometer, because a critical condition for the formation of D3+ is that the energy of the free proton binding to the H2 molecule be less than the separation energy of the H3+ molecule, else the collision would yield D2+ + D. In other words, the principle formation reactions might be expected to be: D+ + D2 --> D3+ D+ + D2 --> D2+ + D If the proton carries too much energy the second reaction would tend to take precedence, and if it carries a lot of energy, you would expect even more secondary products and much much less D3+. Interesting that it seems the heavier nucleus of D should make the formation of D3+ more likely than H3+, in that the heavier D2 is closer in mass to H2O, which has a major affinity for protons. The other necessary condition for creation of a lot of D3+ ions is a low mean free path for the D+ ions freed at the hot anode prior to the ejection hole. Does your mass spectrometer have both of these conditions, i.e. low voltage ionizer and high gas density prior to the orifice? If not, it is difficult to see how D3+ would form. Also, if this is commonplace, there should be info in the literature as well as in the heads of any experienced mass spectoscopists, but that is what you are looking for here, right? Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 16:24:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA00936; Tue, 18 May 1999 16:22:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 16:22:57 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 14:36:39 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: D3+ cold fusion reactor? Resent-Message-ID: <"5Fw4T3.0.UE.GPVGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27433 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Some free association: A D3+ cold fusion reactor: A hot filament at medium positive voltage in high pressure D2 gas environment. Works by manufacturing large amounts of D3+ ions which migrate toward the outer cathode walls, continually doing exchange reactions: D3+ + D2 --> D2 + D3+ The idea is to create opportunities of D nucleii to get close enough long enough to tunnel and cause fusion. The problem is that the nucleus spearation in the D3+ ion is larger than the D2 molecule, except possibly during reactions. Improved by combining with Claytor style high voltage cold cathode wires on the periphery. Interesting question: placing H3+ ion in very strong magnetic field would tend to planarize the molecules, thus improve fusion likelyhood upon collision? Another question: if D3+ molecules might play a role in CF reaction in gas, why not inside metals? Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 16:35:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA06534; Tue, 18 May 1999 16:34:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 16:34:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3741F81A.6AC3BDAD earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 17:30:34 -0600 From: "Richard T. Murray" Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: D3? References: <3.0.1.32.19990518130958.009049c8 mail.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FfOSb2.0.yb1.gZVGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27434 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 18, 1999 Hi Scott Little, Yeah, around 1915-1930, mostly English physicists, starting with Thomson, were reporting H3, so there must also be D3. Rich Murray Scott Little wrote: > > Is there such a thing as a D3 molecule? > > I'm looking at the mass spectrum of some research grade D2 gas I bought > from Spectra Gases and I see a peak at mass 6! It is proportional to the > D2 peak at mass 4 and the ratio of mass6/mass4 is 10^-4. It can't be > tritium (i.e. T2) because there's no peak at mass 5 (DT) and, if it were T, > the 50 L cylinder would contain about 1 Curie of tritium! > > See this spectrum at: > > http://www.eden.com/~little/ev/mass6.html > > Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little > Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA > 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 17:26:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA21423; Tue, 18 May 1999 17:25:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 17:25:28 -0700 Message-ID: <00f201bea18d$9a492c60$c5b4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990518130958.009049c8 mail.eden.com> <3741F81A.6AC3BDAD@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: D3? Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 18:21:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"lQSbP1.0.fE5.uJWGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27435 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard T. Murray To: Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 5:30 PM Subject: Re: D3? > May 18, 1999 Hi Scott Little, Yeah, around 1915-1930, mostly English > physicists, starting with Thomson, were reporting H3, so there must also > be D3. Rich Murray They found out that it was HD, Rich, D2 wasn't known before 1929. :-) FJS > > Scott Little wrote: > > > > Is there such a thing as a D3 molecule? > > > > I'm looking at the mass spectrum of some research grade D2 gas I bought > > from Spectra Gases and I see a peak at mass 6! It is proportional to the > > D2 peak at mass 4 and the ratio of mass6/mass4 is 10^-4. It can't be > > tritium (i.e. T2) because there's no peak at mass 5 (DT) and, if it were T, > > the 50 L cylinder would contain about 1 Curie of tritium! > > > > See this spectrum at: > > > > http://www.eden.com/~little/ev/mass6.html > > > > Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little > > Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA > > 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 21:34:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA32553; Tue, 18 May 1999 21:34:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 21:34:00 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990518233750.008e0d90 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 23:37:50 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: D3? In-Reply-To: <3741E8CF.67FB5035 mccir3.crmc2.univ-mrs.fr> References: <3.0.1.32.19990518130958.009049c8 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"fTPzd1.0.Zy7.tyZGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27436 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:25 AM 5/19/99 +0200, Jean-Paul Biberian wrote: >May be you don't remember it, but in 1989, at the University of Washington in >Seattle, a grad student ran an experiment with an elcectrolytic cell connected >to a mass spec. At their great surprise they saw mass 3, and assumed it was >tritium or helium-3. However, soon after specialists in mass spectroscopy >confirmed that H3 exists, and the University retracted with great embarassment. > >So I think your mass 6 peak is most likely D3. Thanks, Jean-Paul. That certainly seems like the best explanation for my peak. Thanks to all you other guys for the interesting ideas and hypotheses. Horace, the gas density is very low at the entrace to the mass spec....~10^-6 torr. I'm not sure about the ionization voltages, etc. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 21:41:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA01434; Tue, 18 May 1999 21:39:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 21:39:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990518234339.008dd860 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 23:43:39 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: EarthTech's RGA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"eyVMu.0.KM.L2aGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27437 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You can read about our new RGA (mass spec) on the web site of it's mfgr, Stanford Research Systems. http://www.srsys.com/html/rga.html We got the 100 AMU model, with the channel electron multiplier option. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 18 22:20:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA13791; Tue, 18 May 1999 22:20:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 22:20:09 -0700 Message-ID: <19990519052040.12241.rocketmail send205.yahoomail.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 22:20:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: EV experiment challenge To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"qBHHz3.0.LN3.9eaGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27438 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little wrote: A spark discharge is made using a sharply-pointed cathode tip which lies in contact with a .1mm thick dielectric sheet, which is in turn lying upon a ground plane. The cathode tip is a few millimeters from the edge of the sheet. Is the axis of the point perpendicular to the plane of the anode or parallel to it? It looks to me like you have a surface breakdown discharge. Once you get some negative charge on the surface of the insulator, it has an internal electric field perpendicular to the surface, but then, just on the vacuum side, the E field is nearly parallel to the surface. Then, electrons are accelerated nearly parallel, so they go a fairly long distance and gain energy before striking the surface. When they do, they have enough energy to knock out one or more new electrons. Thus, an avalanch develops. Insulators flash at rather low voltage when E is too nearly parallel to the surface. This doesn't solve your challenge. I'm just trying to identify the likely process that's occurring. === Michael J. Schaffer _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 19 03:34:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA01808; Wed, 19 May 1999 03:33:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 03:33:18 -0700 Message-ID: <003301bea1e2$83995ee0$428f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Cc: Subject: Re: D3+ or HD-HD+ ?? Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 04:28:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"M_Oy1.0.AS.kDfGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27439 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Then again, could it be Hydrino-Hydride or Deutrino-Hydride compounds etc.? Correction Rich, Deuterium was discovered by Urey (American) in 1931 he got Nobel Prize in 1934). Seems he isolated HD (mass 3) and narrowed it down using spectrum analysis and electrolysis of a NaOH-H20 solution. You end up with one volume of pure D2O when you electrolyze about 100,000 volumes of water, i.e.., 100 liters of water electrolyzed will yield one milliliter of D2O. The H/D off-gas ratio is about 8 to 1. At $0.10/kw-hr, how much would it cost to electrolyze 100 liters of "Liquid Plumber" to get a milliliter of D2O? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 19 04:43:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA12849; Wed, 19 May 1999 04:40:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 04:40:23 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 02:54:09 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: EV experiment challenge Resent-Message-ID: <"CRwKn2.0.g83.dCgGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27440 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:20 PM 5/18/99, Michael Schaffer wrote: >Scott Little wrote: > >A spark discharge is made using a sharply-pointed cathode tip which lies in >contact with a .1mm thick dielectric sheet, which is in turn lying upon a >ground plane. The cathode tip is a few millimeters from the edge of the >sheet. > >Is the axis of the point perpendicular to the plane of the anode or >parallel to it? The typical initial Shoulders experiments used a cathode at a 30 - 45 deg. angle to the dielectric sheet, and touching the sheet. However, he seldom used a flat sheet. The cathode point typically rested in a groove or against a trough (oriented on an angle sideways, with the cathode inserted on a lateralangle as well)) made by adhering small tiles to the dielectric sheet. The EV path could then be manipulated to go around corners, or split, or varied in length by sliding tiles, etc. However, there were some experiments done using a needle point discharge over a gap to a metal plate, on a 90 degree angle to the plate. Shoulders recommended a nobel gas environment, especially xenon, or the heavier the better. Much is described in patents 5,018,180, or 5,123,039 which appears to be identical or nearly identical to 5,018,180 in the body of the patent. These are HUGE patents. They take a long time to read. > >It looks to me like you have a surface breakdown discharge. Once you get >some negative charge on the surface of the insulator, it has an internal >electric field perpendicular to the surface, but then, just on the vacuum >side, the E field is nearly parallel to the surface. The cascade breakdown sounds like a good description of some of the phenomena observed. One of the supposed indicators of the presence of EVs in the spark is a thick bright spark. As you play with characteristics of the spark power supply, spark thickness and brightness varies makedly and suddenly, seeming to have two "modes". Sometimes the spark has both modes - thick on one end, thin on the other, with a sudden transition in the middle. On one brief occasion, I was able to vary the location of the transition point by changing the supply voltage by turning a knob, using a high frequency pulsed DC power supply into a hundreds of megohms resistor into a xenon tube. The spark is thick on the anode end, if I reall correctly, but does get bright at a specific point, which is strange for an avalanche. One of the "proofs" of the existence of EV's was a voltage spike across a resistor to ground, coming from a coil wrapped around the EV path. The device was said to be OU, i.e. the coil producing more energy than was put into the spark. I reproduced the results right down to producing a similar output waveform. After much fiddling around, I discovered by accident the same waveform was present when I accidentally left the oscilloscope prode detached! The primary coupling to the probe was not through the conductor, but rather through EM radiation, so, for that experiment at least, the OU nature appeared to me to be an artifact. As I am sure you are aware, it is very difficult to get reliable measurements in the presence of fast high voltage sparks. >Then, electrons are >accelerated nearly parallel, so they go a fairly long distance and gain >energy before striking the surface. When they do, they have enough energy >to knock out one or more new electrons. Thus, an avalanch develops. >Insulators flash at rather low voltage when E is too nearly parallel to the >surface. > >This doesn't solve your challenge. I'm just trying to identify the likely >process that's occurring. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 19 04:57:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA15816; Wed, 19 May 1999 04:57:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 04:57:03 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 03:10:50 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: D3+ cold fusion reactor Resent-Message-ID: <"dQgRB1.0.2t3.FSgGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27441 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Using high pressure D2 gass, a fusion reactor might be made using a hot anode, a grid around the hot anode, using high frequency at a medium net voltage chosen to maximize the D3+ ion current, yet avoid arking, and a high voltage, say 20 kV, applied to surrounding cathode metal, with the cathode at a distance that avoids sparking or arcing. The objective is to simulate to a large degree an electrolytic cell, yet provide for high energy acceleration in the cathode region. A secondary benefit is the ability to run the cell in closed mode, without recombination. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 19 05:03:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA16806; Wed, 19 May 1999 05:00:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 05:00:45 -0700 Message-ID: <003b01bea1ee$ba9d1e20$428f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Liquid Cathode Electrical Discharge Experiment Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 05:56:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"lUZJD1.0.R64.jVgGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27442 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex An electrical discharge to a conductive liquid cathode, creates local "Cathode Surface Hot Spots" that according to Langmuir are "Field Emission Phenomena" caused by a "Positive Ion Sheath" very close the liquid cathode surface. The emission of such cathode spots on a mercury cathode runs about 100 Amperes per Square Millimeter, and if the current is increased, multiple spots occur. Measurement of the temperature of the spots proves that Is Not Thermionic Emission and the Hg pool never gets above about 250 C, but the vapor temperature gets quite high and the heat of condensation on the rectifier walls must be removed. Curiosity about the Incandescent Tungsten Cathode experiment has forced me to order an oil furnace ignition transformer, 10,000 volts at 0.023 amperes (Vince has a spare, but he is too busy with the H2K experiment) so that I can run discharges to a K2CO3/H2O Cathode as a repeat of an experiment that I did in 1975 that sure looked OU, but I couldn't convince the Hot Fusion folks at Los Alamos to take a closer look at it, and do the calorimetry. The arcs to the LiOH-saturated water surface in a metal pressure vessel gave a rapid pressure rise that extinguished the arc which re-ignited after the pressure dropped, then extinguished again, and so on. The water pool never got more than a few degrees above ambient. Since the transformer is center-tapped to ground, tying a pan to ground with two "spark gaps" formed between the two high voltage leads and the water, one might get the two gaps to commutate like the old dual-anode cathode pool Hg rectifiers, without the need for current limiting resistors. Otherwise the transformer has to be floated above ground and a series inductor employed for commutating. If anyone wants to take a crack at this, I will gladly ship them the $50.00 transformer (gratis) and a K2CO3 source of about 8 cubic yards of wood ashes that have accumulated in the foundation of my fireplace over the past 36 years ( if they will pay the Chimney Sweep and freight costs). :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 19 05:21:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA21349; Wed, 19 May 1999 05:19:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 05:19:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990519072111.00a51844 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 07:21:11 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: EV experiment challenge In-Reply-To: <19990519052040.12241.rocketmail send205.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"O0wTI2.0.VD5.NngGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27443 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 22:20 5/18/99 -0700, Michael Schaffer wrote: >Is the axis of the point perpendicular to the plane of the anode or >parallel to it? There is a brief writeup of our present experiment, which has two photos of this electrode geometry at: http://www.eden.com/~little/ev/cc.html >It looks to me like you have a surface breakdown discharge. Once you get >some negative charge on the surface of the insulator, it has an internal >electric field perpendicular to the surface, but then, just on the vacuum >side, the E field is nearly parallel to the surface. Then, electrons are >accelerated nearly parallel, so they go a fairly long distance and gain >energy before striking the surface. When they do, they have enough energy >to knock out one or more new electrons. Thus, an avalanch develops. >Insulators flash at rather low voltage when E is too nearly parallel to the >surface. Very interesting and plausible, Michael. I would be most interested in your take on the various phenomena presented and discussed in Shoulders new 1999 paper. Please obtain it from my home page (link below) and review it. Thanks! Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 19 10:35:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA19065; Wed, 19 May 1999 10:32:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:32:55 -0700 Message-ID: <005d01bea21d$1ec48720$428f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Incandescent Screwdriver Experiment Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 11:28:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"3rGYw3.0.lf4.7NlGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27444 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To: Vortex In the mid 1970's I had 240 V.A.C. 60 Ampere Service in my basement workshop/laboratory for biomass research. I took a 2 pound coffee can nearly full of water and added a few milliliters of battery electrolyte (H2SO4 used in hydrolysis experiments) and set it on a 1/8 inch thick sheet of Lucite, and attached one side of the 240 volt outlet to the coffee can and the other to the 5/16 inch shank of a Phillips-Head screwdriver. Wearing safety goggles, and having one hand in my pocket, I grasped the screwdriver by the Plastic-Insulated handle and started to immerse it into the electrolyte in the coffee can. In about 40 milliseconds (or less) the tip was gone, with sparks and electrolyte flying in every direction. There were Lichtenberg (sp?) figures, and probably Charge Clusters appearing on the Lucite sheet. Very Interesting, but rough on screwdrivers and much faster than grinding off about 1.5 inches/second. If you think you want to replicate this experiment, inform your Wife, so she can check to make sure your Life Insurance Policy is in good order, FIRST. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 19 12:30:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA14657; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:26:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:26:28 -0700 Message-ID: <374310E8.CEA36CF0 ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:28:41 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Incandescent Screwdriver Experiment References: <005d01bea21d$1ec48720$428f85ce default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iFH4w1.0.xa3.Z1nGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27445 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: May 19, 1999 Frederick Sparber wrote: >If you think you want to replicate this experiment, inform your Wife, so she >can check to make sure your Life Insurance Policy is in good order, FIRST. Back in the seventies, we were all younger and I assume, of sturdier minds --- what thought process induced you to do this to a screwdriver in the first place? :) -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 19 12:32:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA15532; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:29:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:29:52 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: <45e871bd.247469d1 aol.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:24:01 EDT Subject: H2K: Vacuum Leaks To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"wM6lr3.0.co3.m4nGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27446 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All, The power supplies (2) for the MKS absolute pressure sensor arrived yesterday and I began mounting them in a chassis box. In the meantime I have been chasing a very small leak in the vacuum manafold. The leak is on the order of 0.062 torr per hour but it is a leak, not outgassing. I plotted vacuum loss over a 12 hour period and it was a straight line. I tried using some of my wifes clear nail polish on the suspect pipe joints and it did stop the leak...temporaraly, but the stuff would not adhere well to the copper pipe and flaked off when dry. Anyone have any suggestions on a easly obtainable brush on sealent ? Rewelding the pipe joints is not an option. Back to the bench now. Vince Cockeram Las Vegas 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 19 12:42:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA19248; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:39:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:39:58 -0700 Message-ID: <007301bea22e$db317740$428f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <005d01bea21d$1ec48720$428f85ce default> <374310E8.CEA36CF0@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Incandescent Screwdriver Experiment Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 13:36:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"U3WCS.0.gi4.EEnGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27447 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Akira Kawasaki To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 1:28 PM Subject: Re: Incandescent Screwdriver Experiment Something along the line of reasoning that has prompted Ohmuri and Mizuno to do the Incandescent Tungsten experiments, I guess. Only with about 14.4 KW instead of 120 watts. :-) Regards, Frederick > May 19, 1999 > > Frederick Sparber wrote: > > > > >If you think you want to replicate this experiment, inform your Wife, so she > >can check to make sure your Life Insurance Policy is in good order, FIRST. > > Back in the seventies, we were all younger and I assume, of sturdier minds --- > what thought process induced you to do this to a screwdriver in the first > place? :) > > -AK- > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 19 12:58:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA22862; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:54:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:54:35 -0700 Message-ID: <374316D3.7792E36E bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:53:55 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Incandescent Screwdriver Experiment References: <005d01bea21d$1ec48720$428f85ce default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JrPrR1.0.5b5.xRnGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27448 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick Sparber wrote: > In about 40 milliseconds (or less) the tip was gone, with sparks and > electrolyte flying in every direction. There were Lichtenberg (sp?) > figures, and probably Charge Clusters appearing on the Lucite sheet. Very > Interesting, but rough on screwdrivers and much faster than grinding off > about 1.5 inches/second. And people call *me* a crackpot! Next time use a Craftsman screwdriver. Sears will replace it, no questions asked. Pity your wife can't get the same guarantee. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 19 13:15:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA28670; Wed, 19 May 1999 13:12:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 13:12:36 -0700 Message-ID: <008301bea233$67195da0$428f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <005d01bea21d$1ec48720$428f85ce default> <374316D3.7792E36E@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Incandescent Screwdriver Experiment Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:08:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"JFtQu2.0.u_6.qinGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27449 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Blanton To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 1:53 PM Subject: Re: Incandescent Screwdriver Experiment Terry wrote: > > Frederick Sparber wrote: > > > > > In about 40 milliseconds (or less) the tip was gone, with sparks and > > electrolyte flying in every direction. There were Lichtenberg (sp?) > > figures, and probably Charge Clusters appearing on the Lucite sheet. Very > > Interesting, but rough on screwdrivers and much faster than grinding off > > about 1.5 inches/second. > > And people call *me* a crackpot! Yes, Terry, but my Macho Thinking (at the time) was to use the Power you have at your Disposal. But that was only about 1.5 horsepower (under the kitchen sink). :-) > Regards, Frederick > > Terry > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 19 14:33:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA24045; Wed, 19 May 1999 14:22:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:22:58 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Wed, 19 May 1999 17:21:31 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Wed, 19 May 1999 17:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 17:05:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: RE: H2K: Vacuum Leaks In-reply-to: <45e871bd.247469d1 aol.com> To: vortex-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Wed, 19 May 1999 17:21:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2055ZXXUOSMZI X400-MTS-identifier: [;13127191509991/3745438 ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"7EA5q.0.dt5.okoGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27450 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vince, You said you welded the copper joints, did you mean solder? If you did actually weld them, try touching up your joints with a little solder, use a good solder flux and it should wick out into a nice thin sealing patch. Remember to clean the surface with a small wire brush or emery cloth to remove any surface contamination. Also clean off any excess flux to prevent corrosion. >Anyone have any suggestions on a easily obtainable brush on >sealent ? Rewelding the pipe joints is not an option. By the way, where in Vegas are you? Bill webriggs concentric.net From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 19 14:55:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA00414; Wed, 19 May 1999 14:54:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:54:23 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 17:58:23 -0400 Message-ID: <19990519215823343.AAA223 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"l3hY52.0.O6.FCpGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27451 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Run a search for a product call TorrSeal. It's commonly used by the vacuum crowd, and highly recommended. Knuke >In the meantime I have been chasing a very small leak in the vacuum >manafold. > >Anyone have any suggestions on a easly obtainable brush on >sealent ? Rewelding the pipe joints is not an option. >Back to the bench now. Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 19 15:24:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10502; Wed, 19 May 1999 15:22:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:22:41 -0700 From: "George Holz" To: Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:24:17 -0400 Message-ID: <01bea246$557a4740$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"dJMVH.0.yZ2.mcpGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27452 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Huffman wrote: >Run a search for a product call TorrSeal. It's commonly used by the vacuum >crowd, and highly recommended. Duniway at http://www.duniway.com/html/greases___supplies.html sells a Torr Seal equivalent and Vacseal, a sealent with a much wider temperature range. - George Holz Varitronics Systems 732-356-7773 george varisys.com 1924 US Hwy 22 East Bound Brook NJ 08805 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 19 18:26:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA00297; Wed, 19 May 1999 18:24:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:24:13 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 21:28:16 -0400 Message-ID: <19990520012816343.AAA282 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"jMsjF.0.S4.yGsGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27453 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: George wrote: >Duniway at http://www.duniway.com/html/greases___supplies.html >sells a Torr Seal equivalent and Vacseal, a sealent with a much >wider temperature range. >- >George Holz Varitronics Systems >732-356-7773 george varisys.com >1924 US Hwy 22 East Bound Brook NJ 08805 Thanks for the URL, George, I may be doing some high temp vacuum experiments myself one of these days. I mentioned a trick a long time ago to get a better seal, and that is to bring the system into a low vac, say 3"-5" Hg, and then brush the stuff on. This draws the sealant into the leak a little deeper. You can do this with solder as well. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 19 22:59:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA11250; Wed, 19 May 1999 22:56:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:56:13 -0700 Message-ID: <19990520055620.4658.rocketmail web135.yahoomail.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:56:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"6ulzs1.0.el2.zFwGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27454 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Duniway at >http://www.duniway.com/html/greases___supplies.html >sells a Torr Seal equivalent and Vacseal, a sealent >with a much wider temperature range. Torr seal will work on the cooler parts of your system, Vince, but not on the hot parts. Torr Seal and similar products are low vapor epoxies formulated for vacuum systems. I don't have any experience with Vacseal. I don't know what it contains, but my Duniway catalog says it is used from liquid nitrogen all the way to 450 C. Pretty impressive stuff. Maybe it's a silicone. Use acetone, or perhaps alcohol, to locate your leak precisely. If you need really high temperature capability, I don't know of any simple patch material for vacuum leaks. Perhaps you can braze over the localized leak area. Use a braze with a melting point a bit below that of the copper. Try to avoid brazes that contain zink for high temperatures. Zinc vaporizes out of hte braze at a fairly low temperature. Likewise, don't use brass components any place where the temperature will rise. You don't want zinc vapor mixing with your potassium. === Michael J. Schaffer _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 19 23:49:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA20553; Wed, 19 May 1999 23:49:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 23:49:06 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 06:48:33 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3748aeaf.104665057 mail-hub> References: <19990520055620.4658.rocketmail web135.yahoomail.com> In-Reply-To: <19990520055620.4658.rocketmail web135.yahoomail.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA20536 Resent-Message-ID: <"W_Tt32.0.315.Y1xGt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27455 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 19 May 1999 22:56:20 -0700 (PDT), Michael Schaffer wrote: [snip] >out of hte braze at a fairly low temperature. Likewise, don't use brass >components any place where the temperature will rise. You don't want zinc >vapor mixing with your potassium. [snip] Actually the Zinc - Copper pair is another catalyst like potassium. The third ionisation energy of copper is 36.83 eV, and the first of zinc is 9.39 eV. 36.83 - 9.39 = 27.44, not far removed from 27.2. If CuO exists on the inside copper surface, then the Cu is already in the 2+ ionisation state. So any Zn+ ions combining with the Cu++ would form a Mills "energy hole". The problem is that the zinc would likely either be Zn or Zn++, not Zn+. (Though Cu+++ + Zn -> Cu++ + Zn+ ?) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 20 04:37:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA00586; Thu, 20 May 1999 04:37:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 04:37:04 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bea2b4$93923c40$cdb4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Liquid Cathode Electrical Discharge Experiment Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 05:32:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"r56IC2.0.49.VF_Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27456 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex After going through the literature on Mercury Cathode Rectifier Tubes it becomes apparent that since one arc spot (Cathode Hot Spot) is good for up to 30 amperes. If more current is available multiple spots form. The drop across the mercury arc rectifiers is about 25 volts, and currents of 400 amperes are typical. Since 10 kW is a bit beyond preliminary experimental requirements, especially with a K2CO3-Water OU experiment, I propose that a Full Wave Bridge Rectifier fed from the 120 V.A.C. house current with a cartridge heater to limit the current to 20 amperes, and a 300 Microfarad smoothing capacitor (an off-the-shelf motor starting capacitor) will suffice. A short length of 1.5 inch steel pipe with the cartridge heater/ballast (www.watlow.com ) threaded into the bottom using a bell reducer and thus in the cathode pool below the surface will serve to limit the current and act as a means of scavenging what would otherwise be wasted heat. Also the heater can be switched directly to the input A.C. to boil the water so that the steam will expel the air from the unit through a bleed valve at the top. A Graphite Rod Anode fed through a threaded pipe cap at the top will complete the Diode configuration. The only problem left is figuring a means of starting the arc. The old mercury arc rectifiers used several clever approaches for doing this. It might be that if the unit is cold and the water vapor pressure is 20 Torr or less, it will ignite automatically. A water jacket around the pipe will serve as a cooling means (so that the steam in the unit condenses and runs back to the pool) as well as providing a way of doing the calorimetry. With less than 25-50 volts or so exposed, the experiment should be fairly safe to work with. Thoughts? Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 20 05:12:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA06508; Thu, 20 May 1999 05:11:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 05:11:42 -0700 From: "Ed Wall" To: Subject: RE: More from Mizuno (W&H) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:12:20 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bea2ba$026d8020$220a16cf computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"0x8ee1.0.cb1.-l_Gt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27457 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Some questions for Jed, Gene, Ed Wall, or anyone else who's seen > a working > plasma electrolysis cell: > > At what voltage does the plasma appear? Around 60 Vdc, depending somewhat on temperature. > > Does the excess heat appear as soon as the plasma does? I have not seen validated excess heat here yet. > > Is there a range of voltage in which the size of the plasma area remains > roughly the same, or does that increase linearly with voltage as well? > Interesting question. It cannot be easily answered with the Ransford cell (carbon rods) because the electrolyte becomes almost opaque with detritus. Jed, you might suggest making such luminosity measurements to Mizuno. Ed Wall New Energy Research Laboratory http://www.infinite-energy.com email:ewall infinite-energy.com Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Bow, NH 03302-2816 (603) 226-4822 fax 224-5975 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 20 06:36:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA29925; Thu, 20 May 1999 06:35:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 06:35:24 -0700 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:33:53 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:26:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks In-reply-to: To: vortex-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2056ZXXVDNJMA X400-MTS-identifier: [;35339002509991/3746917 ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"DzGA_2.0.RJ7.S-0Ht" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27458 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vince, What temperature range are we talking about, soldering may not be appropriate. Bill webriggs concentric.net >You said you welded the copper joints, did you mean solder? >If you did actually weld them, try touching up your joints with a little >solder, use a good solder flux and it should wick out into a nice thin >sealing patch. >>Anyone have any suggestions on a easily obtainable brush on >>sealent ? Rewelding the pipe joints is not an option. >By the way, where in Vegas are you? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 20 08:15:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA22893; Thu, 20 May 1999 08:13:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:13:48 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Fusion Lightbulbs? Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:17:51 -0400 Message-ID: <19990520151751390.AAA242 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"KJbBl2.0.db5.hQ2Ht" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27459 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gnorts, I ran across this the other day, and thought you might be interested in it as another approach. http://www.sulfurlamp.com/index.htm Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 20 10:28:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA08880; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:24:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:24:33 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <2abd4a1a.24759f0d aol.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:23:25 EDT Subject: Re: Bill B. in Boston Globe monday (addition & multiplication) To: vortex-L eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZsBZW.0.gA2.GL4Ht" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27460 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bill, Congratulations on the favorable mention of you and your very worthwhile work in Chandler's article in THE BOSTON GLOBE, May 17, 1999 . The story reminded me of what a shock it was to discover, in the rigorous first-year calculus class ages ago at the University of Michigan, that addition and multiplication are the two fundamental operations on the real numbers, and that multiplication is not just a form of addition. It took me quite a while to get over the fact that multiplying 0.1 times 0.1 to get 0.01 wasn't any kind of addition, something that could have been pointed out rather easily in high school textbooks, or even grade school textbooks, for that matter. Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 20 13:06:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31305; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:05:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:05:13 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: <129b8d78.2475c4cc aol.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 16:04:28 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"VFDBZ1.0.3f7.vh6Ht" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27461 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 05/19/1999 22:59:01 Pacific Daylight Time, schaffermj yahoo.com writes: > Torr seal will work on the cooler parts of your system, Vince, but not on > the hot parts. Torr Seal and similar products are low vapor epoxies > formulated for vacuum systems. > > I don't have any experience with Vacseal. I don't know what it contains, > but my Duniway catalog says it is used from liquid nitrogen all the way to > 450 C. Pretty impressive stuff. Maybe it's a silicone. There are no hot parts in the vacuum system, it's all room temp. > > Use acetone, or perhaps alcohol, to locate your leak precisely. I'm stumped Mike. How do I use acetone / alcohol to locate a 0.062 torr per hour leak? (Only thing that comes to mind is an eyedropper to drip solution on suspect joints and watch for it to suck in, but at that slow a leak?) > > If you need really high temperature capability, .... Not required Michael. > === > Michael J. Schaffer > Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 20 13:08:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31403; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:05:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:05:46 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: <993e4f99.2475c4cb aol.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 16:04:27 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"6UR6J2.0.Xg7.Pi6Ht" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27462 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 05/19/1999 14:55:45 Pacific Daylight Time, knuke LCIA.COM writes: > >In the meantime I have been chasing a very small leak in the vacuum > >manafold. > Run a search for a product call TorrSeal. It's commonly used by the vacuum > crowd, and highly recommended. > > Knuke Thanks Knuke, will go looking. Vince Las Vegas From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 20 13:08:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31677; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:06:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:06:51 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: <391e1090.2475c4ce aol.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 16:04:30 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"HNf2s.0.ok7.Qj6Ht" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27464 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 05/19/1999 22:59:01 Pacific Daylight Time, schaffermj yahoo.com writes: > Torr seal will work on the cooler parts of your system, Vince, but not on > the hot parts. ........ I found a product called "Red Epoxy" at Graingers this morning. It's a heat cured epoxy thats made for sealing leaks in pressure and vacuum systems. Seems like this will do the job. I'm testing it now on a scrap piece of pipe, curing it in boiling water. > Michael J. Schaffer > Regards and Thanks, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 20 13:09:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31564; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:06:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:06:38 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: <134985b1.2475c4ca aol.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 16:04:26 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"bu-xQ3.0.6j7.Ej6Ht" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27463 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 05/19/1999 14:23:58 Pacific Daylight Time, MH2_BRIGGS ODNVMS.A1.Ohio.Gov writes: > Vince, > > You said you welded the copper joints, did you mean solder? > There are mostly soldered joints in the system, using non lead solder. There are two welded joints (actually brazed) where the copper pipe is joined to the steel flange that mates to the absolute pressure sensor. > > If you did actually weld them, try touching up your joints with a little > solder, use a good solder flux and it should wick out into a nice thin > sealing patch. > > By the way, where in Vegas are you? At the west end of Sahara Ave in a development called "The Lakes" That is about 10 miles west of the "strip". > > Bill > webriggs concentric.net > Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 20 13:31:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA08851; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:30:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:30:12 -0700 Message-ID: <000901bea2ff$09fa2060$eeb4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re; Liquid Cathode Electrical Discharge Experiment Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:25:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"sYZNX.0.DA2.K37Ht" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27465 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex The 1500 watt,120 volt, low wattage density Chromalox domestic water heater elements with a 1 inch male pipe thread, have an inserted length of 7.75 inches. These are tin plate on copper for operation where the water is high in minerals and should work fine in a K2CO3-H2O environment, especially when operated at reduced wattage. They sell for about $10.00 each. Figuring dropping 80 volts across this ~9.6 ohm "current limiting resistor" and the remaining 40 volts across the arc discharge in the pipe, the heating element will dissipate ~666 watts and the arc ~ 333 watts at about 8.33 amperes. The 300 microfarad, 125 volt, Motor-Start capacitors run about $5.00 each. Full-wave Bridge rectifiers rated at 20 amperes and 300 PIV will probably cost about $10.00 each. So , about $20.00 for the 14 inch x 1.5 inch pipe and reducing fittings, and a modified automotive spark plug, one can do the liquid cathode discharge experiments for around $50.00, plus the cost of doing the calorimetry to check for OU output. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 20 15:03:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA01201; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:57:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:57:02 -0700 From: "George Holz" To: Subject: Re: EV experiment challenge Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 17:58:36 -0400 Message-ID: <01bea30b$e944f1d0$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"7vo1U1.0.hI.kK8Ht" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27466 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Scott, you wrote: >Ken Shoulders just sent me a PDF version of a 1999 paper entitled "Charge >Clusters in Action" that was presented at the Conference on Future Energy >held in Bethesda, MD. > >He gave me permission to place it on our web site and I have done so. - I have a cdrom version of the paper that Ken was selling at COFE. The MSword version of this paper is over 20 megabytes. The images in the cd version are available at much higher resolution than in the pdf version. If you would like to examine the high resolution version, Ken may still have some available or I could send you my copy of the cd. I also discovered how to export high resolution versions of the images from word to allow further image processing. One would have expected this operation to be trivial, but not so with MSword. - George Holz Varitronics Systems 732-356-7773 george varisys.com 1924 US Hwy 22 East Bound Brook NJ 08805 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 20 19:23:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA23940; Thu, 20 May 1999 19:20:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:20:17 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 22:24:23 -0400 Message-ID: <19990521022423359.AAA122 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"I6EBK2.0.-r5.XBCHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27467 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vince wrote: >I'm stumped Mike. How do I use acetone / alcohol to locate a 0.062 torr >per hour leak? (Only thing that comes to mind is an eyedropper to drip >solution on suspect joints and watch for it to suck in, but at that slow >a leak?) Pressurize the system to whatever you think it can safely handle, 10-30psi maybe (start small), and put a 50-50 mix of water and dishwashing liquid over all the joints. Any leak will produce bubbles, and you're there. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 20 20:54:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA16776; Thu, 20 May 1999 20:51:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 20:51:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199905210349.XAA11576 mercury.mv.net> Subject: Message from Benveniste Date: Thu, 20 May 99 23:49:56 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA16754 Resent-Message-ID: <"-C1b62.0.-54.8XDHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27468 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Subject: DigiBio - NewsLetter 1999.2 Sent: 5/20/19 3:03 AM Received: 5/20/99 7:22 PM From: NewsLetter DigiBio.com To: Eugene F. Mallove - Cold Fusion Technology, Inc, editor infinite-en ================================================================ DigiBio - NewsLetter 1999.2 ----------------------------- Index: I - Research advances: a new in-vitro protocol II - Communication III - Demonstration challenge, etc. IV - Upcoming events V - Thanks ================================================================ Dear friends, Sorry for not having given you any news for the last three months. We still enjoy a buzzing atmosphere around here, even more then ever: >> I - Research advances: a new in-vitro protocol << -------------------------------------------------------------------- At the begining of the year, immediatly after the launching of the replication process based on animal skin experiments (see "Do-it-yourself" ), we developed a new system sensitive to biological signals . This in vitro system is not only as demonstrative as the preceding ones but also much simpler to implement and replicate. Once again a recorded biological signal is triggering a biological effect, but using this in-vitro method we can perform many more experiments in a given time than we were previously able to. Today, all our task force is assigned to explore and tune up the different parameters of this most promising protocol. >> II - Communication << ------------------------ - March 11: J. Benveniste gives a talk at the Cavendish Laboratory, Cambridge (UK), at the invitation of Brian Josephson, the Nobel laureate in physics. Please have a look at Brian Josephson's home page - "Le Quotidien du MÈdecin", Paris, March 18 - "The Independent", London, March 19 Following the Cavendish conference, these two articles report on our research from its early stage till now. We thank the two journalists for their impartiality. - "Time magazine", May 17, US edition , p77 In reaction to the APS implication in the reproduction of our results (see below), "Time magazine" presents our work and it's possible implications "You've got homeopathy in your e-mail..." . Although we thank the journalist for his overall neutral posit ion, we regret that his article insists on totally linking our claims with those of homeopathy, when in fact we are working on a more fundamental aspect of biology (molecular signaling). Validating high dilutions and homeopathy may only be part of our wor k implications and is not anyhow our main research target. Also the article says of our past work that "Attempts to reproduce his results were unsuccessful.". This is a misrepresentation (to put it mildly). In this respect, we will soon add a page on our website detailing the numerous replications since 10 years. >> III - Demonstration challenge, etc. << ----------------------------------------- Following several exchange of correspondence between Brian Josephson, the physicist Robert Park and ourselves, the American Physical Society (APS) has expressed its interest in participating to a demonstration of the biological effect of a recorded specif ic signal. There was also this comment from Park in the "What's new" of April 2 : "1999 Pigasus Awards announced by telepathy on April first. The James Randi Educational Foundation bestowed yet another honor on Jacques Benveniste, the only person to win the Ig Nobel prize twice (WN 9 Oct 98). Benveniste transferred the digitized memory of homeopathic water via the internet from Paris to an ordi nary bottle of water in Albuquerque, NM. The coveted flying pig trophy was sent to Benveniste via psychokinesis. No word yet on whether he received it. More on the Pigasus awards next week." If we understand correctly, JR invites us to participate in the challenge with a 1.1 Million dollars prize. Fine to us. >> IV - Upcoming events << -------------------------- - Jacques Benveniste is an Invited Speaker at the Society for Scientific Exploration annual meeting in Albuquerque (NM) June 5. - Same at the meeting of the Russian Academy of Science "Life in Atomic and Chemical World", Moscow, November 23-25, 1999. >> V - Thanks << ---------------- Many thanks to all those who have along these years kept confidence in us, helped, and supported our research from the start up to now. We are now at the stage where more and more noted scientists have overcome their first reaction "It's impossible" to mo ve towards "What if it were true?". With the expected availability of easy and reproducible methods, the relatively simple concept of em transmision via water of the specific biological signal should soon be admitted as a scientific evidence. What is at s take is not only this notable progress, but also a thorough reappraisal of the fears and blockades of the scientific institution, towards the very essence of research which is the unveiling of new paradigms. Thanks again to you all. Jacques Benveniste Didier Guillonnet From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 20 21:23:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA23110; Thu, 20 May 1999 21:21:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 21:21:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990520232525.008e9830 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:25:25 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, From: Scott Little Subject: Re: EV experiment challenge In-Reply-To: <01bea30b$e944f1d0$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"26eD43.0.0f5.BzDHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27469 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:58 PM 5/20/99 -0400, George Holz wrote: >I have a cdrom version of the paper that Ken was selling at COFE. The MSword >version of this paper is over 20 megabytes. The images in the cd version are >available at much higher resolution than in the pdf version. If you would >like to examine the high resolution version, Ken may still have some available >or I could send you my copy of the cd. Thanks George, but I'm OK with the PDF version. What I really want is a SEM so I can examine in detail the marks that my own spark experiments are making. Under 400x optical mag, they look an awful lot like some of Shoulder's marks...but the details are right at my resolution limit (~1 micron). Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 20 23:09:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA22384; Thu, 20 May 1999 23:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:06:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "Sergei M.Godin" To: Subject: Re: EV experiment challenge Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:58:55 +0400 Message-ID: <01bea34f$02a27e20$LocalHost default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"sdYPR1.0.fT5.sVFHt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27470 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Scott, Can you help me in sending Ken and Steve Shoulders PDF formatted paper. I have a some unrecognized troubles: in the middle of downloading transferring is stopping. Send me please this file to my email address: serjio glasnet.ru Much thanks, Sergei Godin >At 05:58 PM 5/20/99 -0400, George Holz wrote: > >>I have a cdrom version of the paper that Ken was selling at COFE. The MSword >>version of this paper is over 20 megabytes. The images in the cd version are >>available at much higher resolution than in the pdf version. If you would >>like to examine the high resolution version, Ken may still have some >available >>or I could send you my copy of the cd. > >Thanks George, but I'm OK with the PDF version. What I really want is a >SEM so I can examine in detail the marks that my own spark experiments are >making. Under 400x optical mag, they look an awful lot like some of >Shoulder's marks...but the details are right at my resolution limit (~1 >micron). > > >Scott Little >EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 >512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) >little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 21 04:12:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA17225; Fri, 21 May 1999 04:11:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 04:11:38 -0700 Message-ID: <01BEA393.FB9AD1A0 cc1.itim-cj.ro> From: Peter Gluck To: "'vortex-l mail.eskimo.com'" Subject: Science magazine reacts to COFE! Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:12:37 +-300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0j85N.0.3D4.gzJHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27471 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vortexers, just take a look to two papers in today's Science: David Voss: 'New Physics' Finds a Haven at the Patent Office Science 284, 5418, 21 May 1999 pp 1252-1254 David Voss: A Free Energy Enthusiast Seeks Like-Minded Colleagues Science 284, 5418, 21 May 1999, 1254 The papers are very messy, making unfair associations, as usual for the detractors of CF. Peter From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 21 08:53:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA10191; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:52:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 08:52:08 -0700 Message-ID: <004b01bea3a1$5b2276c0$e28f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re; Ortho and Para Forms of Hydrogen and Deuterium Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:47:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"I5KJ-3.0.2V2.d4OHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27472 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex In Ortho Hydrogen/Deuterium (or any homonuclear diatomic molecules in which the nuclei have spin) the spins are aligned, in Para Hydrogen/Deuterium the spins are opposed. The interconversion of the two forms are not Thermally Activated to any extent until Temperatures/Conditions high enough to cause Dissociation and Recombination are reached. Thus if Hydrogen/Deuterium is prepared at any given Temperature, the equilibrium Ortho/Para Ratio characteristic of that Temperature persists at other Temperatures INDEFINITELY unless the Interconversion is Catalyzed. This may be done by Adsorption on ACTIVATED CHARCOAL. For D2, because of the different spin of the nucleus, the Ortho/Para relationship is Opposite of that of H2. Differential Thermal Analysis (DTA) of H2 and D2 in Activated Charcoal, should show the interconversion of the Ortho-Para forms. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 21 11:46:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA29554; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:44:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 11:44:10 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: <42cceedf.24770360 aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:43:44 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"aeOj5.0.iD7.vbQHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27473 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All, It looks like the leaks in the vacuum system have been stopped but I will wait another 24 hours to be sure. Additionally I picked up some styrene epoxy casting resin this morning at Sears. This stuff is a viscous clear fluid (equivalent to 90 weight gear oil) that, with the addition of a hardener, sets up in about an hour. I will coat all surfaces of the vacuum manifold with this. The "Red Epoxy" vacuum sealer I got at Graingers Thursday did the trick but an additional coat will get me that warm fuzzy feeling of a tight vacuum. Confidence is high that the system is tight...finally. Many thanks to all those who called me and posted advice on plugging the holes. I couldent find a supplier of Torr Seal here in town so I went ahead with what I had. Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 21 23:07:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA26835; Fri, 21 May 1999 23:01:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 23:01:49 -0700 Message-ID: <19990522060223.1546.rocketmail web104.yahoomail.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 23:02:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"-owfm1.0.9Z6.DXaHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27474 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: VCockeram wrote: > In a message dated 05/19/1999 22:59:01 Pacific Daylight Time, > schaffermj yahoo.com writes: > I'm stumped Mike. How do I use acetone / alcohol to locate a 0.062 torr > per hour leak? (Only thing that comes to mind is an eyedropper to drip > solution on suspect joints and watch for it to suck in, but at that slow > a leak?) Yeah, I didn't pay attention to your slow number. Acetone gets sucked in, and you see a small pressure rise. Sometimes the acetone frezes from the expansion into vacuum and adiabatic cooling, and it plugs the leak (temporarily!) and the pressure goes down a bit. But with such a slow leak you probably won't see these effects. Still, give it a try. It's cheap. Helium leak detectors cost a fortune. === Michael J. Schaffer _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 22 05:17:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA07422; Sat, 22 May 1999 05:16:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 05:16:20 -0700 Message-ID: <006b01bea44c$5f5db8c0$e28f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Hydrogen-Deuterium Bond Strengths & Exchange Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 06:11:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"2WTaP.0.up1.K0gHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27475 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex The published H-H, D-D, and H-D Bond Strengths: H-H 4.5264 ev D-D 4.6048 ev H-D 4.5622 ev Then: D-D + H-H + E <---> H-D + H-D (at some temperature, T) E = (+/-) ev * 11,600 = dT Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 22 08:05:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA02493; Sat, 22 May 1999 08:03:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 08:03:59 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990522100752.008e8560 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:07:52 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Hydrogen-Deuterium Bond Strengths & Exchange In-Reply-To: <006b01bea44c$5f5db8c0$e28f85ce default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ScMjR3.0.tc.UTiHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27476 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:11 AM 5/22/99 -0600, Frederick Sparber wrote: >The published H-H, D-D, and H-D Bond Strengths: > >H-H 4.5264 ev > >D-D 4.6048 ev > >H-D 4.5622 ev Here's a challenge for you, Fred: Mix pure D2 and pure H2 together at room temperature and atmospheric pressure. What is the time constant for the population growth of HD molecules in this mixture? Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 22 08:06:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA03331; Sat, 22 May 1999 08:06:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 08:06:15 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 11:10:19 -0400 Message-ID: <19990522151019828.AAA239 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"dmdjQ1.0.zp.cViHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27477 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >VCockeram wrote: >> In a message dated 05/19/1999 22:59:01 Pacific Daylight Time, >> schaffermj yahoo.com writes: > >> I'm stumped Mike. How do I use acetone / alcohol to locate a 0.062 torr >> per hour leak? (Only thing that comes to mind is an eyedropper to drip >> solution on suspect joints and watch for it to suck in, but at that slow >> a leak?) > >Yeah, I didn't pay attention to your slow number. Acetone gets sucked in, >and you see a small pressure rise. Sometimes the acetone frezes from the >expansion into vacuum and adiabatic cooling, and it plugs the leak >(temporarily!) and the pressure goes down a bit. But with such a slow leak >you probably won't see these effects. Still, give it a try. It's cheap. >Helium leak detectors cost a fortune. >=== >Michael J. Schaffer I don't know what kind of valves you are using, but valves, and especially the stems are always slow leakers. The fill ports themselves are, well. All commercial refrigeration valves have caps over the stems, and the inlet ports should have caps too. Those caps should have good gaskets, etc.. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 22 10:02:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA27387; Sat, 22 May 1999 09:54:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 09:54:13 -0700 Message-ID: <009901bea473$308a0ae0$e28f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990522100752.008e8560 mail.eden.com> Subject: Re: Hydrogen-Deuterium Bond Strengths & Exchange Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:50:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"eAxfQ3.0.nh6.r4kHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27478 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Little To: ; Sent: Saturday, May 22, 1999 9:07 AM Subject: Re: Hydrogen-Deuterium Bond Strengths & Exchange Working on it Scott. With or without Pd, or Pd on Activated Carbon? :-) Regards, Frederick Scott wrote: > At 06:11 AM 5/22/99 -0600, Frederick Sparber wrote: > > >The published H-H, D-D, and H-D Bond Strengths: > > > >H-H 4.5264 ev > > > >D-D 4.6048 ev > > > >H-D 4.5622 ev > > Here's a challenge for you, Fred: Mix pure D2 and pure H2 together at room > temperature and atmospheric pressure. What is the time constant for the > population growth of HD molecules in this mixture? > > > Scott Little > EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 > 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) > little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 22 10:35:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA05356; Sat, 22 May 1999 10:30:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:30:40 -0700 Message-ID: <00a001bea478$479db060$e28f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990522100752.008e8560 mail.eden.com> <009901bea473$308a0ae0$e28f85ce@default> Subject: Re: Hydrogen-Deuterium Bond Strengths & Exchange Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 11:26:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"W5EMJ1.0.PJ1.0dkHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27479 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Scott Little > To: ; > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 1999 9:07 AM > Subject: Re: Hydrogen-Deuterium Bond Strengths & Exchange BTW, Scott, In the Fractional Distillation of Liquid Hydrogen : "In this process it is necessary to catalyze the disproportionation (unsymmetrical dissociation and recombination) of HD into H2 and D2 IN ORDER TO OBTAIN D2". Further "Deuterium Gas is usuall slightly contaminated with HD". If you looked at the mass 3 on your spectra MS you can see the Mass 3 , right up there next ot mass 4. HD-HD+ is probably a good ly portion of that Mass 6 that you were wondering about the other day. Take the D2 up to 500 Kelvin in the presence of H2O, CxHyOZ, K2CO3, Pd, C, Fe, Ni and so on, then calculate the D2/HD-H2 Ratio. Regards, Frederick > > Working on it Scott. With or without Pd, or Pd on Activated Carbon? :-) > > Regards, Frederick > > > Scott wrote: > > > > At 06:11 AM 5/22/99 -0600, Frederick Sparber wrote: > > > > >The published H-H, D-D, and H-D Bond Strengths: > > > > > >H-H 4.5264 ev > > > > > >D-D 4.6048 ev > > > > > >H-D 4.5622 ev > > > > Here's a challenge for you, Fred: Mix pure D2 and pure H2 together at > room > > temperature and atmospheric pressure. What is the time constant for the > > population growth of HD molecules in this mixture? > > > > > > Scott Little > > EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX > 78759 > > 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) > > little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little > > > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 22 10:41:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA10183; Sat, 22 May 1999 10:40:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:40:18 -0700 Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 13:44:11 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer Reply-To: John Schnurer To: Michael T Huffman , Vortex Subject: Lady Lake ? In-Reply-To: <19990522151019828.AAA239 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KItuD3.0.1V2.2mkHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27480 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Mike, Where is Lady Lake? Thanks, John > Knuke > > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > Lady Lake, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 22 11:49:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA29349; Sat, 22 May 1999 11:48:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 11:48:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990522135244.008ea350 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 13:52:44 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Hydrogen-Deuterium Bond Strengths & Exchange In-Reply-To: <009901bea473$308a0ae0$e28f85ce default> References: <3.0.5.32.19990522100752.008e8560 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"XRSfq3.0.VA7.GmlHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27481 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:50 AM 5/22/99 -0600, Frederick Sparber wrote: >Working on it Scott. With or without Pd, or Pd on Activated Carbon? :-) Goody. Also, I would like to have an idea of the formation rate for HDO when D2 and H2O are mixed together. I see a distinct peak at 19 (next to the huge peak at 18) which is not present in the library spectrum for water that came with my MS. The mass19 peak does seem to come and go with the exposure of the system to D2 gas. >HD-HD+ is probably a good ly portion of that >Mass 6 that you were wondering about the other day. Gosh, that seems even less likely than D3+....but then I know almost nothing about molecules. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 22 13:10:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA13204; Sat, 22 May 1999 13:09:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 13:09:46 -0700 From: aki ix.netcom.com Message-ID: <3746CA97.7CF8 ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 08:17:43 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re; Ortho and Para Forms of Hydrogen and Deuterium References: <004b01bea3a1$5b2276c0$e28f85ce default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jizyh.0.AE3.9ymHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27482 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 22, 1999 Frederick Sparber wrote: > In Ortho Hydrogen/Deuterium (or any homonuclear diatomic molecules in which > the nuclei have spin) the spins are aligned, in Para Hydrogen/Deuterium the > spins are opposed. > > The interconversion of the two forms are not Thermally Activated to any > extent until Temperatures/Conditions high enough to cause Dissociation and > Recombination are reached. > > Thus if Hydrogen/Deuterium is prepared at any given Temperature, the > equilibrium Ortho/Para Ratio characteristic of that Temperature persists at > other Temperatures INDEFINITELY unless the Interconversion is Catalyzed. > > This may be done by Adsorption on ACTIVATED CHARCOAL. > > For D2, because of the different spin of the nucleus, the Ortho/Para > relationship is Opposite of that of H2. > > Differential Thermal Analysis (DTA) of H2 and D2 in Activated Charcoal, > should show the interconversion of the Ortho-Para forms. Could you give us the bibliographic references from which the information is drawn? This Ortho/Para configuration always has been curious (for Hydrogen, much less Deuterium) but not much information (to me) has been available except in cursory ways. Thanks for the post. -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 22 14:42:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA32478; Sat, 22 May 1999 14:41:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 14:41:37 -0700 Message-ID: <00c901bea49b$567be980$e28f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <004b01bea3a1$5b2276c0$e28f85ce default> <3746CA97.7CF8@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Re; Ortho and Para Forms of Hydrogen and Deuterium Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 15:34:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"TtAa63.0.Ox7.HIoHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27483 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, May 22, 1999 9:17 AM Subject: Re: Re; Ortho and Para Forms of Hydrogen and Deuterium Sure Akira. Cotton & Wilkerson; Advanced Inorganic Chemistry, 2nd ed 1966 , The 5th edition ca. 1986 is out but I don't have it. G. Friedlander; Nuclear Radiochemistry, 3rd ed., 1981 H.W. Woolley, R.B. Scott, and F.G. Brickwedde , Compilation of Properties of Hydrogen in its various Isotopic and Ortho-Para Modifications. J. Res. Nat. Bureau of Standards, 43: 397-475, 1948. My McGraw-Hill , Encyclopedia of Science and Technology CD ROM 1998. www.mcgraw-hill.com It cost me $800.00 and I'm going to milk it for all it's worth. :-) Regards, Frederick > May 22, 1999 > > Frederick Sparber wrote: > > > In Ortho Hydrogen/Deuterium (or any homonuclear diatomic molecules in which > > the nuclei have spin) the spins are aligned, in Para Hydrogen/Deuterium the > > spins are opposed. > > > > The interconversion of the two forms are not Thermally Activated to any > > extent until Temperatures/Conditions high enough to cause Dissociation and > > Recombination are reached. > > > > Thus if Hydrogen/Deuterium is prepared at any given Temperature, the > > equilibrium Ortho/Para Ratio characteristic of that Temperature persists at > > other Temperatures INDEFINITELY unless the Interconversion is Catalyzed. > > > > This may be done by Adsorption on ACTIVATED CHARCOAL. > > > > For D2, because of the different spin of the nucleus, the Ortho/Para > > relationship is Opposite of that of H2. > > > > Differential Thermal Analysis (DTA) of H2 and D2 in Activated Charcoal, > > should show the interconversion of the Ortho-Para forms. > > Could you give us the bibliographic references from which the > information is drawn? > This Ortho/Para configuration always has been curious (for Hydrogen, > much less Deuterium) but not much information (to me) has been available > except in cursory ways. > Thanks for the post. > > -AK- > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 22 15:53:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10004; Sat, 22 May 1999 15:51:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 15:51:53 -0700 Message-ID: <001b01bea4a5$2711f540$adb4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990522100752.008e8560 mail.eden.com> <3.0.5.32.19990522135244.008ea350@mail.eden.com> Subject: Re: Hydrogen-Deuterium Bond Strengths & Exchange Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 16:48:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"HS4JR1.0.AS2.8KpHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27484 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Little To: ; Sent: Saturday, May 22, 1999 12:52 PM Subject: Re: Hydrogen-Deuterium Bond Strengths & Exchange Scott wrote: > Goody. Also, I would like to have an idea of the formation rate for HDO > when D2 and H2O are mixed together. I see a distinct peak at 19 (next to > the huge peak at 18) which is not present in the library spectrum for water > that came with my MS. The mass19 peak does seem to come and go with the > exposure of the system to D2 gas. How many eggs do you want in your beer? :-) The Intermolecular Force curve that applies to Short-range forces (Lennard-Jones) implies that at 3.0 angstoms or less the molecules can exchange atoms,especially when the bond energies are about equal. So a mix of D2 and H2 plus H2O could change to HDO, HD, and so on in no time. An analogy is the "auto ionization" of pure H2O to H+ + OH- . However the actual removal of an electron, Ionization of Water requires about 15 ev to remove the electron from the molecule. Regards, Frederick > > > > Scott Little > EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 > 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) > little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 22 18:32:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA01271; Sat, 22 May 1999 18:30:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 18:30:22 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bea4bb$49e16360$948f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Hydrogen-Deuterium Bond Strengths & Exchange Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 19:25:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"8MDzZ3.0.nJ.kerHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27485 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Check this out, Scott. My 72nd Edition CRC (1992) gives the Gibbs Free Energy for H-D as: - 0.350 Kcal/Mole. Zero for D-D, and H-H. D-D + H-H + E ----> 2 H-D 0 + 0 + E = 2(- 0.350) Kcal Exothermic That would be about 0.015 ev/H-D formed ~176 deg K? H2O (gas) = - 54.634 Kcal/mole HDO (gas) = - 55.719 Kcal/mole D2O (gas) = - 56.059 Kcal/mole H2O + D2O + E ----> 2 HDO -54.634 + - 56.059 + E = 2(-55.719) E = 2(-55.719) + 54.634 + 56.059 E = - 0.745 Kcal Exothermic Too Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 22 21:53:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA32154; Sat, 22 May 1999 21:51:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 21:51:39 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990522235450.008e7d00 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:54:50 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Hydrogen-Deuterium Bond Strengths & Exchange In-Reply-To: <000501bea4bb$49e16360$948f85ce default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"la9qY1.0.Ks7.QbuHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27486 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:25 PM 5/22/99 -0600, Frederick Sparber wrote: >Check this out, Scott. >D-D + H-H + E ----> 2 H-D > 0 + 0 + E = 2(- 0.350) Kcal Exothermic >H2O + D2O + E ----> 2 HDO >-54.634 + - 56.059 + E = 2(-55.719) > E = 2(-55.719) + 54.634 + 56.059 > E = - 0.745 Kcal Exothermic Too Gosh, the HD combo is energetically favored in both cases. Are there any other factors to consider? Doesn't seem like there'd be any entropy differences...or am I wrong as usual about entropy?... Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 22 23:00:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA12430; Sat, 22 May 1999 22:59:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 22:59:59 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrogen-Deuterium Bond Strengths & Exchange Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 05:59:26 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <374897f2.167439167 mail-hub> References: <3.0.5.32.19990522235450.008e7d00 mail.eden.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990522235450.008e7d00 mail.eden.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA12414 Resent-Message-ID: <"OY75m3.0.823.VbvHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27487 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 22 May 1999 23:54:50 -0500, Scott Little wrote: [snip] >Gosh, the HD combo is energetically favored in both cases. Are there any >other factors to consider? Doesn't seem like there'd be any entropy >differences...or am I wrong as usual about entropy?... [snip] At the risk of putting my foot in my mouth ;), I think the HD combo is twice as likely as DD or HH, given equal amounts of both gasses. DD DH HD HH. When there is a preponderance of one gas, then of course the DH combo is far more common than the combination of two atoms of the lesser gas. E.g. In a mix of 1 part DD in 10 parts HH, HD (DH) will be far more common than DD, but far less common than HH. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 00:06:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA21525; Sun, 23 May 1999 00:05:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 00:05:26 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: <71e8afc4.247902b3 aol.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 03:05:23 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"DSK5J.0.BG5.rYwHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27488 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 05/22/1999 08:06:46 Pacific Daylight Time, knuke LCIA.COM writes: > Don't know what kind of valves you are using, but valves, and especially > the stems are always slow leakers. Commercial bronze valves spec'd at 200 psi. I did install the valves positioned so that, in the critical section of the manifold, the part that controls the reactor tube, the vacuum only "sees" the sealing neoprene washer which is epoxied to the valve stem. As this valve is normally closed off during runs there is no problem with stem packing or leaky packing nuts. The other side of the valve is where the pump side of the manifold "sees" the packing and stem seal. Teflon packing is used, but I found that the valve(s) were not the problem, it happened when I installed an additional "tee" in the system for the absolute pressure sensor. The heating from the sweat soldering must have disturbed one of the existing joints and opened a pinhole leak. > The fill ports themselves are, well. > All commercial refrigeration valves have caps over the stems, and the inlet > ports should have caps too. Those caps should have good gaskets, etc.. > > Knuke > > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > Lady Lake, Florida 32159 Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas Nevada 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 00:07:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA21935; Sun, 23 May 1999 00:06:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 00:06:25 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: <4d36a8e1.247902b1 aol.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 03:05:21 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"nXRZT2.0.eM5.mZwHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27489 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All, The leak is plugged! The final overcoat of the entire vacuum manifold with polystyrene epoxy seems to have done the trick. Again, many thanks to all who passed me info on solving the problem. Today, Saturday I have completed enclosing the entire reactor stand and high voltage section in a Faraday shield constructed of galvanized sheet metal. All sections of the shield are soldered together. I took this extreme step because I'm bugged with the electrical noise issue. I hope this eliminates the problem. Only a couple of more connections to make for the thermocouple and I'm ready to start H2 calibration testing with the carbon electrodes. I plan to make a series of runs at different fill pressures, starting at the best vacuum the Dayton pump will pull. The specs say 25 millitorr but I would guess it will only get to ~100 millitorr at best at my altitude and the unheated vacuum manifold. I will then do runs at 1,10,20,40 80 and 100 torr, starting at low power input ~10 watts before accounting for transformer losses and working up to the transformer input maximum of 40 watts in ~5 watt steps. Electrode gap will be 1 inch for all runs and a new quartz tube will be used for each run at a new fill pressure. Also today I received the Cold Fusion video from the Infinite Energy folks. Very well done Gene. A lot of hard work pulling all that info together is obvious. Good job! Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas Nevada 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 00:09:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA21966; Sun, 23 May 1999 00:06:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 00:06:34 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: <8a7a0e32.247902b4 aol.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 03:05:24 EDT Subject: Fwd: H2K: Vacuum Leaks To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_8a7a0e32.247902b4_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"_8RQH3.0.8N5.wZwHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27490 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --part1_8a7a0e32.247902b4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/21/1999 23:04:25 Pacific Daylight Time, schaffermj yahoo.com writes: > Acetone gets sucked in, > and you see a small pressure rise. Sometimes the acetone freezes from the > expansion into vacuum and adiabatic cooling, and it plugs the leak > (temporarily!) and the pressure goes down a bit. But with such a slow leak > you probably won't see these effects. Still, give it a try. It's cheap. > Helium leak detectors cost a fortune. > === > Michael J. Schaffer I was almost tempted to try pressurizing the system with Freon as I have a good Freon leak detector but rejected that thought when I saw how slow a leak it was. The hole was probably so small that the large size of the Freon -12 molecule probably wouldn't make it through in enough quantity to trip off my detector. Got it fixed now. Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas Nevada 702-254-2122 --part1_8a7a0e32.247902b4_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-za02.mx.aol.com (rly-za02.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.98]) by air-za02.mail.aol.com (v59.11) with SMTP; Sat, 22 May 1999 02:04:25 -0400 Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by rly-za02.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id CAA04050; Sat, 22 May 1999 02:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA26835; Fri, 21 May 1999 23:01:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 23:01:49 -0700 Message-ID: <19990522060223.1546.rocketmail web104.yahoomail.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 23:02:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"-owfm1.0.9Z6.DXaHt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27474 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit VCockeram wrote: > In a message dated 05/19/1999 22:59:01 Pacific Daylight Time, > schaffermj yahoo.com writes: > I'm stumped Mike. How do I use acetone / alcohol to locate a 0.062 torr > per hour leak? (Only thing that comes to mind is an eyedropper to drip > solution on suspect joints and watch for it to suck in, but at that slow > a leak?) Yeah, I didn't pay attention to your slow number. Acetone gets sucked in, and you see a small pressure rise. Sometimes the acetone frezes from the expansion into vacuum and adiabatic cooling, and it plugs the leak (temporarily!) and the pressure goes down a bit. But with such a slow leak you probably won't see these effects. Still, give it a try. It's cheap. Helium leak detectors cost a fortune. === Michael J. Schaffer _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com --part1_8a7a0e32.247902b4_boundary-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 06:34:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA25326; Sun, 23 May 1999 06:33:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 06:33:36 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990523134025.01877028 popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 09:40:25 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Vortex (Rotation) Dynamics Resent-Message-ID: <"oc1z52.0.WB6.mE0It" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27491 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry for my absence folks. I met a new Lady friend (cute angel face, very good body) :) and technology seems to have taken a backseat since I got back from London. I think I'm acclimating to this new energy level though. At 04:22 AM 5/23/99 -0800, you wrote: >What form then is a vibration pattern when considering all vibrations >have three primary modes: longitudinal, transverse and Raleigh? > >NOTE: This is an exercise.... and a great opportunity! Dale, I remember you saying that Quantum Arithmetic was more accurate (or was it precise) than a Searl Square? (be careful my friend) ;) Could you elaborate on this idea? I assume this is in reference to vibration patterns. Perhaps modeling the concept will help in its' visualization? >From Cloud 9; Dennis From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 06:57:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA30354; Sun, 23 May 1999 06:56:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 06:56:53 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990523090048.008ef100 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 09:00:48 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Hydrogen-Deuterium Bond Strengths & Exchange In-Reply-To: <374897f2.167439167 mail-hub> References: <3.0.5.32.19990522235450.008e7d00 mail.eden.com> <3.0.5.32.19990522235450.008e7d00 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Bg0RO2.0.7Q7.aa0It" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27492 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:59 AM 5/23/99 GMT, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >When there is a preponderance of one gas, then of course the DH combo is >far more common than the combination of two atoms of the lesser gas. >E.g. In a mix of 1 part DD in 10 parts HH, HD (DH) will be far more >common than DD, but far less common than HH. This is apparently what I observe in the water case....where, due to exposure to D2 gas, the H2O adsorbed on the system walls establishes some kind of equilibrium population of HDO and D2O molecules: A big peak at 18 (H2O), a small peak at 19 (HDO) and a smaller peak at 20 (D2O and/or H2O made with O-20, which is 0.2% natural abundance). Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 08:41:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA13811; Sun, 23 May 1999 08:40:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 08:40:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199905231538.LAA28279 mercury.mv.net> Subject: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 Date: Sun, 23 May 99 11:38:58 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id IAA13791 Resent-Message-ID: <"1Tf5n1.0.hN3.r52It" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27493 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ****** ANNOUNCEMENT ****** The general public (and especially MIT students, faculty, and alumni) are invited to an informative... "Cold Fusion Night at the Movies" - Wednesday evening, May 26, 1999 - Doors open at 6:30 p.m.; Showings begin promptly at 7:00 p.m. Seating for 500 or more, but please do come early! Location: Cambridge Marriott Hotel Ballroom Cambridge, Massachusetts near the MIT campus and the MIT Tech Coop [At Kendall-MIT MBTA Station ‹Red Line] ADMISSION: $5.00*; FREE for Students with I.D. and members of the PRESS with Press I.D. * Proceeds from this event will be contributed to a student Cold Fusion research fund. Featuring the Boston area premier presentations of two films, shown on a large screen from digital tape masters: "Breaking Symmetry" (approx. 90 minutes) MIT Professor Keith Johnson's feature length thriller, which will entertain and educate. (Prof. Johnson's film appeared at the May 1999 Cannes Film Festival) AND "Cold Fusion: Fire from Water" ( approx. 70 minutes) A science video documentary about the cold fusion controversy, featuring 22 cold fusion scientists and technologists as well as four prominent cold fusion "skeptics." Narrated by James "Scotty" Doohan of Star Trek fame. Appearances by Sir Arthur C. Clark e. Written by Dr. Eugene Mallove (MIT '69) and Jed Rothwell. Produced and directed by Chris Toussaint. (This video will be on sale in VHS NTSC tape format at the May 26th event.) Please join us for an evening of fun and enlightenment! Sponsored by Infinite Energy Magazine and by Prof. Keith Johnson (MIT Dept. of Materials Science and Engineering, ret.) Infinite Energy Magazine and New Energy Research Laboratory (NERL) Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. P.O. Box 2816 Concord, NH 03302-2816 www.infinite-energy.com Ph: 603-228-4516 Fax: 603-224-5975 staff infinite-energy.com "I've become convinced from my original skepticism, to 99% certainty that [cold fusion] is for real. The evidence now is really overwhelming." - Sir Arthur C. Clarke ******* From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 10:10:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA32723; Sun, 23 May 1999 10:09:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 10:09:40 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:13:45 -0400 Message-ID: <19990523171345843.AAA243 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"qDjRO3.0.1_7.KP3It" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27494 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > ****** ANNOUNCEMENT ****** > >The general public (and especially MIT students, faculty, and alumni) are invited to an informative... > > "Cold Fusion Night at the Movies" > Why didn't we THINK of this before! Cold Fusion bake sales, car washes, ice cream socials, lemonade stands, walkathons... We could all dress up like Girl Scouts, and sell overpriced Cold Fusion Cookies door to door! Who needs the DOE?! A Cold Fusion Church or a lottery might be big winners... America, whatta great town! 8^) Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 10:26:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA05007; Sun, 23 May 1999 10:25:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 10:25:37 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: A few more ideas Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:29:46 -0400 Message-ID: <19990523172946312.AAA159 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"WNrSK2.0.9E1.He3It" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27495 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> ****** ANNOUNCEMENT ****** >> >>The general public (and especially MIT students, faculty, and alumni) are >invited to an informative... >> >> "Cold Fusion Night at the Movies" Bumperstickers, lapel buttons, little flags... A KISSING BOOTH! EGADS! KISSES FOR COLD FUSION!!! Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 10:54:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA10243; Sun, 23 May 1999 10:52:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 10:52:07 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 09:06:04 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks Resent-Message-ID: <"KBnM83.0.zV2.614It" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27496 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 3:05 AM 5/23/99, VCockeram aol.com wrote: >All, > >The leak is plugged! The final overcoat of the entire vacuum manifold >with polystyrene epoxy seems to have done the trick. Again, many >thanks to all who passed me info on solving the problem. > >Today, Saturday I have completed enclosing the entire reactor stand >and high voltage section in a Faraday shield constructed of galvanized >sheet metal. All sections of the shield are soldered together. I took >this extreme step because I'm bugged with the electrical noise issue. >I hope this eliminates the problem. What happened to the water cooled copper jacket? Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 13:23:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA13546; Sun, 23 May 1999 13:22:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:22:10 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <158947ce.24799bcc aol.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:58:36 EDT Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"MNFAH3.0.aJ3.oD6It" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27497 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gene, What's the copyright date on the COLD FUSION: FIRE FROM WATER video? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 13:36:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22033; Sun, 23 May 1999 13:35:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:35:30 -0700 Message-ID: <087701bea556$86652a60$5b8180d8 btech> From: "Bill Wallace`" To: References: <19990523171345843.AAA243 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 15:57:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"qRYmD.0.tN5.GQ6It" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27498 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Why can't we hook this up to a camera and broadcast this over the internet - why have all this technology if people are too greedy or too lazy to use it? A cheap internet cam will do the trick. > >The general public (and especially MIT students, faculty, and alumni) are > invited to an informative... > > > > "Cold Fusion Night at the Movies" From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 13:37:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22149; Sun, 23 May 1999 13:35:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:35:35 -0700 Message-ID: <087501bea550$812f9ae0$5b8180d8 btech> From: "Bill Wallace`" To: References: <1.5.4.32.19990523134025.01877028 popd.ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Vortex (Rotation) Dynamics Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 15:14:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"Em2E.0.rP5.MQ6It" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27499 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: My image of you is destroyed - I thought you had a goal and ambition and desire that drove you above all else - and here I come to find out a hot piece of ass can topple your passion - you are not worthy to carry the torch of new innovation - pathetic. Tesla is turning in his grave! > Sorry for my absence folks. I met a new Lady friend (cute angel face, very > good body) :) and technology seems to have taken a backseat since I got > back from London. I think I'm acclimating to this new energy level though. > >From Cloud 9; > Dennis From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 17:00:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA14163; Sun, 23 May 1999 16:57:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 16:57:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199905232355.TAA29823 mercury.mv.net> Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 Date: Sun, 23 May 99 19:56:12 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"D1ykm1.0.DT3.4O9It" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27501 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Gene, > >What's the copyright date on the COLD FUSION: FIRE FROM WATER video? > >Tom Stolper > > Tom, It is Copyright 1999, Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. Out of curiosity, why is this of interest? Gene From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 17:00:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA14145; Sun, 23 May 1999 16:57:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 16:57:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199905232355.TAA29832 mercury.mv.net> Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 Date: Sun, 23 May 99 19:56:15 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"GWQx1.0.xS3.3O9It" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27500 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Why can't we hook this up to a camera and broadcast this over the internet - >why have all this technology if people are too greedy or too lazy to use it? >A cheap internet cam will do the trick. Why not broadcast Star Wars over the internet too!? It has do do with money. It cost LOTS of money to make this video. Thanks to one of our benefactors, we could do it! We have staff people who have to be paid and experiments to fund. Hence, we wish to make a return on the magnificent, generous investment. Sincerely, Gene Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief Infinite Energy Magazine Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. P.O. Box 2816 Concord, NH 03302-2816 Ph: 603-228-4516 Fax: 603-224-5975 editor infinite-energy.com www.infinite-energy.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 17:51:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA28141; Sun, 23 May 1999 17:51:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 17:51:13 -0700 Message-ID: <004401bea57f$60910920$7f45ccd1 default> From: "Mike Carrell" To: Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 19:20:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"AXQSD1.0.Zt6.1AAIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27502 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Wallace said: >Why can't we hook this up to a camera and broadcast this over the Internet - >why have all this technology if people are too greedy or too lazy to use it? >A cheap Internet cam will do the trick. "Greedy" includes those who are unwilling to produce any exchange for benefits and information received. The finger of greed points in all directions. One of Gene Mallove's benefactors put up a very substantial sum of money to cover the production costs of "Fire from Water", more than Mr.. Wallace will probably earn in many years, and more, I think, than the production cost of "Breaking Symmetry". The admission fee for the showing is less than adult admission at local movie theaters and will barely cover the rental cost for the room and professional projection systems. It is a matter of symmetry and justice that these films be shown on the doorstep of MIT, and hopefully to a significant segment of its student body, faculty and alumni. Mr.. Wallace needs to do his homework on the decade of sacrifice and sweat which lies behind these productions. Negotiations are underway toward having "Fire from Water" shown on major cable networks, where Mr.. Wallace need be bothered only by commercials. While waiting, he can purchase a tape as a small recognition of the effort it represents. Yes, indeed, Infinite Energy magazine intends to reap commercial reward from the sale and license of this production. Gene Mallove and his associates are fully entitled to it. Mike Carrell > >> >The general public (and especially MIT students, faculty, and alumni) >are >> invited to an informative... >> > >> > "Cold Fusion Night at the Movies" > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 17:56:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA30168; Sun, 23 May 1999 17:56:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 17:56:02 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990524010254.01889c1c popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 21:02:54 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Meetings & a Larger View Resent-Message-ID: <"akeh_.0.HN7.YEAIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27503 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >At 07:52 AM 5/23/99 -0800, you wrote: >>Greetings Everyone, >> >>Below is an excellent article by Dan Meador acknowledged by many as an >>expert in Cooperative Federalism (Americanization of the NWO) and >>related matters and author of the book The Masters of DeCeit. I post >>these articles for a number of reasons. Probably the most important is >>the "R" word: responsibility both personal and social. Americans as a >>whole have shirked their responsibility to be responsible citizens in >>charge of their own government. It is no longer our government but a >>collection of greedy and power hungry pirates. > >Steps for the average person to make the gubermint work good. IMHO > >1. Help partner to achieve maximum success financially and reach life's dream of creative social contribution (~15 years). > >2. There will then be time to do law research and litigation against the injustice one encounters in the course life. Don't be a hero. Wait for it to come to you until you are left no choice but lawful self defense. NO FEAR. > >3. Find law page associated to one's home state requirements. Massachussetts example: > >http://www.magnet.state.ma.us/legis/laws/mgl/ > >4. Find lawyer code of ethics (Massachusetts example) for one's state: > >http://www.magnet.state.ma.us/obcbbo/7626.htm >or >http://www.magnet.state.ma.us/obcbbo/rpcnet.htm > >5. Recognize facts of particular case and find appropriate related passages in above materials to use against unjust opposition in court. An 'Achimedian Bath' helps thought and creative levels. Overwhelming legal strategy is possible for the following reasons: > >A. You're an individual with properly earned time, resources, and energy to fight for one's own, as well as others who are worthy of, justice and rights. This is a greater force than a creepy (bunch of) lawyer working on dozens of mostly groundless and almost inevitably illegal cases for a client who is ethically even more destitute than the lawyer(s) himself (themselves). > >B. Why are fascist methods used by the oppressors? Because there is no legal ground to stand on. Belligerent truculence is all that's under the hood. This is also evidence that the truth of the matter is buried well. The State Auditor's Office, using 'Standard Government Auditing Proceedures' established by the U.S. Comptroller General should be employed at the beginning of applicable cases to establish the facts. Freedom of Information inquiries assume that the documentation found is all there is because the agency is believed to be giving all out effort to cooperate. A proper State Auditor's Office inquiry will take more than a year and be able to establish the documentation that should be on public record and what it should cover. At the end of such an inquiry, all facts are known with no loose ends, no questions unanswered, and nothing overlooked. > >http://www.magnet.state.ma.us/sao/audresp.htm > >C. You are on just one case at a time so relevent issues are focused on and have been analyzed on a continuous basis. Sometimes the answer evolves after a judgement is made. Go back, undo it, and make it right with timely court proceedure. > >http://www.magnet.state.ma.us/legis/laws/mgl/231-6F.htm > >6. Use 'willful and deceptive business practice' laws to file treble damage lawsuit claims everywhere appropriate against all perpetrators of unjust act. > >http://www.magnet.state.ma.us/legis/laws/mgl/93A-11.htm > >7. Use all appropriate evidence from court case (judge will list all wrongful acts committed and those who are responsible in final judgement) to bring charges against all attorneys involved in unjust acts with Board Of Bar Overseers. > >http://www.magnet.state.ma.us/obcbbo/7626.htm > >http://www.magnet.state.ma.us/obcbbo/rpcnet.htm > >8. Use decisions of Board Of Bar Overseers to bring treble damage claims against all attorneys involved with 'willful and deceptive business practice' laws. > >http://www.magnet.state.ma.us/legis/laws/mgl/93A-11.htm > >9. Do it yourself. Hiring a lawyer will result in losing your money as well as the case in my opinion. > >Godspeed good citizens; >Dennis > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 20:40:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA26218; Sun, 23 May 1999 20:39:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 20:39:22 -0700 Message-ID: <004b01bea597$8dae2ec0$788180d8 btech> From: "Bill Wallace`" To: References: <199905232355.TAA29832 mercury.mv.net> Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 23:43:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"3MEnK1.0.WP6.gdCIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27504 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Think Positive and you could be rich. If current trends continue - all news - entertainment - music - movies - education - will happen over the internet - that is its power. You are correct - profit is the motive for most progress - so let me put this to you - say you charged people a quarter to watch this on the internet? Now locally you may get 500 people - say you make $10 per person - that is 5,000 bucks - - of course the place you present it gets their cut off these consumers - the airlines - the hotels - the eatery places - so that eliminates a lot of poorer people from being able to go - much less the time it would take - now lets say you broadcast it over the internet to 50,000 people at that quarter 12,500 sounds more profitable to me - why are you making less money - my entreprenurial spirit wonders why you are not maximizing profit? Greed is sometimes good. Greedy people can't afford to be lazy. Coca Cola - McDonalds - Exxon - etc etc - did not get rich because of a few wealthy people - they got rich from a bunch of poorer ones - follow thier lead! > >Why can't we hook this up to a camera and broadcast this over the internet - > >why have all this technology if people are too greedy or too lazy to use it? > >A cheap internet cam will do the trick. > > Why not broadcast Star Wars over the internet too!? It has do do with > money. It cost LOTS of money to make this video. Thanks to one of our > benefactors, we could do it! We have staff people who have to be paid > and experiments to fund. Hence, we wish to make a return on the > magnificent, generous investment. > > Sincerely, > > Gene > > Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief > Infinite Energy Magazine > Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. > P.O. Box 2816 > Concord, NH 03302-2816 > > Ph: 603-228-4516 > Fax: 603-224-5975 > > editor infinite-energy.com > www.infinite-energy.com > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 20:50:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA28965; Sun, 23 May 1999 20:47:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 20:47:09 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 19:01:07 -0900 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 Resent-Message-ID: <"MvkYn2.0.V47.zkCIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27505 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 3:57 PM 5/23/99, Bill Wallace` wrote: >Why can't we hook this up to a camera and broadcast this over the internet - >why have all this technology if people are too greedy or too lazy to use it? >A cheap internet cam will do the trick. Better that we first achieve the more simple task of having a list where people discuss physics on more than a superficial adolescent level? (No offense to serious adolescents intended.) Hats off to Keith Johnson and Gene Mallove et al for bringing "Breaking Symmetry" and "Cold Fusion: Fire from Water" to MIT's doorstep, and free to students too. I hope these eventually get played on the networks. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 20:54:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA31447; Sun, 23 May 1999 20:53:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 20:53:41 -0700 Message-ID: <007f01bea599$8d151120$788180d8 btech> From: "Bill Wallace`" To: References: <004401bea57f$60910920$7f45ccd1 default> Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 23:57:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"HUSnU2.0.Fh7.4rCIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27506 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > directions. One of Gene Mallove's benefactors put up a very substantial sum > of money to cover the production costs of "Fire from Water", more than Mr.. > Wallace will probably earn in many years, >From my business - possibly - from my stock investments - Want to take a bet? You might lose. and more, I think, than the > production cost of "Breaking Symmetry". The admission fee for the showing is > less than adult admission at local movie theaters and will barely cover the There is more profit to be made - the ultimate goal of any profitable systems is to maximize the number of people you can proft from - look at the richest companies and corporations in the world - they make it off many - a little at a time - not of a few in big chunks - you need to take some basic economics my friend. > rental cost for the room and professional projection systems. It is a matter > of symmetry and justice that these films be shown on the doorstep of MIT, > and hopefully to a significant segment of its student body, faculty and > alumni. Justice - HAHA! - you speak of profit in one breath and justice in another - any saavy businessmen worth his salt knows the two rarely go hand in hand. I understand your problem - do not give it away for free - merely charge less with more numbers - I think you will make more money. I would pay to watch it over the internet - you are not giving me and millions of others that option - you want to make less money - your choice - vision is a very hard thing to find today. > Mr.. Wallace needs to do his homework on the decade of sacrifice and sweat > which lies behind these productions. Negotiations are underway toward having > "Fire from Water" shown on major cable networks, where Mr.. Wallace need Cable networks days are numbered - their only hope is to prevent the masses from being able to acquire cheap internet technology - it will be MUCH harder for them to direct what we watch at that point - our choices will be more our own - decades ago people could watch only 3 channels - the power of the interent when in everypersons home is the ability to watch billions and trillions of different things. Why don't you be the ones to break the mold - go BEYOND the cable networks - join the NEW PARADIGM of the future - the internet - and all the more profits you should be able to make - if you were positive and not negative - if you were a visionary and not a follower. be > bothered only by commercials. While waiting, he can purchase a tape as a > small recognition of the effort it represents. Yes, indeed, Infinite Energy > magazine intends to reap commercial reward from the sale and license of this > production. Gene Mallove and his associates are fully entitled to it. > > Mike Carrell Live in the future my friend - there can be no progress living in the past only learning from it. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 21:10:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA04461; Sun, 23 May 1999 21:08:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 21:08:22 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: <3a33f4b3.247a2a70 aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 00:07:12 EDT Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"9ciNb3.0.X51.r2DIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27508 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 05/23/1999 13:36:28 Pacific Daylight Time, btech surfsouth.com (Bill Wallace) writes: > Why can't we hook this up to a camera and broadcast this over the internet - > why have all this technology if people are too greedy or too lazy to use it? > A cheap internet cam will do the trick. Not practical Bill due to the fact that a 70 minute video would require many, many gigabytes to encode at poor quality. My _guess_ is, oh, about a 15-20 hour download with a 56k modem! I bought the tape and at $35 bucks it is well worth the price. Also there is the cost of this production. Do you think "Scotty" works for free? This is a very professional production with a limited audience so thirty five dollars is a VERY good price. Come on Bill, cough up. It really is worth it. Vince Cockeram Las Vegas Nevada 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 21:11:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA04426; Sun, 23 May 1999 21:08:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 21:08:15 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 00:07:11 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"KXsaC1.0.451.l2DIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27507 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 05/23/1999 10:52:46 Pacific Daylight Time, hheffner mtaonline.net writes: > What happened to the water cooled copper jacket? > > Regards, > Horace Heffner It's inside the insulated can that encloses the reactor tube. The two ends of the copper tubing protrude through the wall of the can. No connection to water yet. Just a ground wire connected to the tubing. Calorimetry is in the future but the plumbing is ready. I assembled the components today for a shakedown run and there were a few problems. Lower tube connection arcing to the Faraday shield, the insulated can too loose a grip on the quartz tube and...a vacuum leak in the O-ring tube seals. Not really too bad. All EZ fixes. Shorten the lower tube contact and add insulator to bottom of the Faraday shield, add more tension to the leaf springs that grip the tube and a little rework of the O-ring clamp assembly will take care of the leak. This last is why I spent so much time making sure the _vacuum manifold_ was leak free. If I hadn't, I would now have the job of going over about 18 possible places where a leak could occur, where now there are only 3 possible spots with the O-ring clamp is a 90% suspect as this is a completely redesigned and constructed assembly. Not a big job to get fixed. Also the run showed that all the shielding I added is doing the job perfectly. Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas Nevada 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 21:45:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA29261; Sun, 23 May 1999 21:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 21:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009901bea5a0$0bc0fce0$788180d8 btech> From: "Bill Wallace`" To: References: <3a33f4b3.247a2a70 aol.com> Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 00:43:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"hTJfJ3.0.697.7ZDIt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27509 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Why can't we hook this up to a camera and broadcast this over the internet - > > why have all this technology if people are too greedy or too lazy to use > it? > > A cheap internet cam will do the trick. > > Not practical Bill due to the fact that a 70 minute video would require > many, many gigabytes to encode at poor quality. Have you ever heard of microsofts new 6.0 media player - how about real networks - could be broadcasted live. Hell do it A LA Art Bell and get with broadcast.com - there are options - if you care to look. > My _guess_ is, oh, about a 15-20 hour download with a 56k modem! No that is wrong. > I bought the tape and at $35 bucks it is well worth the price. > Also there is the cost of this production. Do you think "Scotty" works > for free? No need to PRODUCE anything if it is broadcast live - this is the 90's ya know! This is a very professional production with a limited audience > so thirty five dollars is a VERY good price. Come on Bill, cough up. > It really is worth it. > > Vince Cockeram > Las Vegas Nevada > 702-254-2122 $35 among a few - with all the production costs is not as efficient or profitable as what you could do with the internet - am I the only one that sees the power and profit of this technology? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 22:01:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA14529; Sun, 23 May 1999 21:59:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 21:59:58 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 01:04:08 -0400 Message-ID: <19990524050408000.AAA280 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"6xwo6.0.xY3.DpDIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27510 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Vince, Just a few more questions. I know this is a strange one, but are the electrodes insulated from the quartz tube itself by any other material? Are the electrodes inside the tube or outside of it? And are you using carbon electrodes this time? I take it with the shielding that you are not able to observe the tube at all now, right? Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 23:37:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA32132; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:37:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 23:37:20 -0700 Message-ID: <19990524063818.19797.rocketmail web124.yahoomail.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 23:38:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"Kxx_f1.0.-r7.VEFIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27511 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vince, Congratulations on getting your noise knocked down. I am surprised you use galvanized sheet metal to make the Faraday shield, though. Thin, soft copper is ever so much easier to cut, form and solder whenever the shape is anything but the simplest. >I will then do runs at 1,10,20,40 80 and 100 torr, starting at low power >input ~10 watts before accounting for transformer losses and working >up to the transformer input maximum of 40 watts in ~5 watt steps. It would be more interesting, and also good practice, to make the corrections for transformer losses...the core or open circuit loss (a function of voltage) and the winding resistance loss (a function of current). === Michael J. Schaffer _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 23 23:42:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA00974; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:42:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 23:42:19 -0700 Message-ID: <19990524064317.20204.rocketmail web124.yahoomail.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 23:43:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: Hydrogen-Deuterium Bond Strengths & Exchange To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"YwDnh1.0.3F.BJFIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27512 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't know any details about D-D + H-H + E --> 2 H-D, but I know that it is common in vacuum systems. I suppose that solid surfaces catalyze the reaction, because otherwise the activation energy barrier would limit the rate to very low levels. Of course, an electrical discharge breaks up molecules, and the atoms are then free to recombine back to molecules any way they "want" to. === Michael J. Schaffer _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 00:07:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA05181; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:06:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 00:06:44 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: <6382008f.247a5458 aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 03:06:00 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"oeTDw3.0.tG1.4gFIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27513 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 05/23/1999 22:01:20 Pacific Daylight Time, knuke LCIA.COM writes: > Just a few more questions. I know this is a strange one, but are > the electrodes insulated from the quartz tube itself by any other material? No. > Are the electrodes inside the tube or outside of it? Inside. > And are you using carbon electrodes this time? Yes,carbon. I hand make each electrode from a carbon welding electrode mfg. by Aircair, Wichita, Kansas.Cat # 22-043-003 Type DC. The rods are 12 inch by 1/4 inch diameter are plated with about 0.005 inch of copper. I strip the copper by cutting through a lengthwise strip and then peeling it off. It's heavy plate and will strip off in a single piece if you wanted to. I then rough sand down to almost the inside diameter of the quartz tubes then chuck the rod in a drillpress at it's slowest speed and using an old tube as a circular cutter, cut the carbon rod to a nice fit to the inside of the tube, which is 0.022 inch. I have tried different shaped business ends of the electrodes, pointed, round top cone, round and flat. The round ended electrodes seem to work best. The pointed end produced a mess of vaporized carbon on the tube walls, ditto for the rounded cone. The flat ended electrode glow / arc was unstable (electrically). > I take it with the shielding that you are not able to observe the > tube at all now, right? Not entirely true. I installed a ~1/4 inch viewport through the can wall and the internal insulation packing. It's a 1 inch piece of an old tube. I tried covering one end of the tube with a piece of a microscope slide but it fell off inside the can so now I just insert a plug in the outer end. Just wanted to keep room air from circulating in the view tube, throwing temperature readings off.. The carbon plug works fine at that job. > > Knuke > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > Lady Lake, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas Nevada 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 00:33:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA09990; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:32:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 00:32:25 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 03:32:07 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"u2E9A2.0.xR2.82GIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27514 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 05/23/1999 23:37:48 Pacific Daylight Time, schaffermj yahoo.com writes: > Vince, > > Congratulations on getting your noise knocked down. I am surprised you > use galvanized sheet metal to make the Faraday shield, though. Thin, soft > copper is ever so much easier to cut, form and solder whenever the shape > is anything but the simplest. The galvanized sheet I had on hand and I was just trying to keep costs down. It wasn't that hard to build and the 'big momma' soldering iron I have could sweat a keel on the Queen Mary....under water. > > >I will then do runs at 1,10,20,40 80 and 100 torr, starting at low power > >input ~10 watts before accounting for transformer losses and working > >up to the transformer input maximum of 40 watts in ~5 watt steps. > > It would be more interesting, and also good practice, to make the > corrections for transformer losses...the core or open circuit loss (a > function of voltage) and the winding resistance loss (a function of current) Yes I know. I see I am going to have to run more resistance tests at other than full input voltage. As you have said, these transformers are not linear so the tests must (and will) be done. All I have now is one data point for each of the resistances, full voltage. I must be brain dead for not thinking of doing a range of input voltages at the time. More work on the foundation of the experiment.....but if the foundation isn't solid then the experiment is no good. > > === > Michael J. Schaffer Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas Nevada 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 04:48:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA12629; Mon, 24 May 1999 04:45:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 04:45:52 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 03:48:16 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks Resent-Message-ID: <"Y-LVv2.0.F53.llJIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27515 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 3:32 AM 5/24/99, VCockeram aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 05/23/1999 23:37:48 Pacific Daylight Time, >schaffermj yahoo.com writes: > >> Vince, >> >> Congratulations on getting your noise knocked down. I am surprised you >> use galvanized sheet metal to make the Faraday shield, though. Thin, soft >> copper is ever so much easier to cut, form and solder whenever the shape >> is anything but the simplest. > >The galvanized sheet I had on hand and I was just trying to keep costs down. >It wasn't that hard to build and the 'big momma' soldering iron I have could >sweat a keel on the Queen Mary....under water. If you should sometime later have the need for a "quick and dirty" Faraday shield, my experience has been that aluminum foil is amazingly effective, and far more effective than a sealed cookie tin I used to seal up a portable radio used as an EM wave detector. A one layer covering of foil was very good, but two layers cut out everything. This should not be surprising, I guess, because the conductivity of aluminum is not far from copper, but much better than steel. The actual results were still very surprising to me. I know you have a background in grounding and shielding equipment at IBM, which does a pretty good job in that arena, so you might be interested to know that I use a gutted IBM 3274 control unit as the outer shielding for some experiments. I use foil to help seal up holes in the steel case, but wrapping the critical stuff in foil helps the most. In doing experiments with longitudinal waves, similar to those suggested by J Naudin, and posted by me here on vortex, I found the foil was superior to using both the 3274 control unit and the cookie tin simultaneously, i.e. a double layer of steel. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 04:53:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA14137; Mon, 24 May 1999 04:52:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 04:52:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199905241150.HAA22140 mercury.mv.net> Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 Date: Mon, 24 May 99 07:50:49 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" , "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"2nvWE3.0.oS3.zrJIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27516 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hats off to Keith Johnson and Gene Mallove et al for bringing "Breaking >Symmetry" and "Cold Fusion: Fire from Water" to MIT's doorstep, and free to >students too. I hope these eventually get played on the networks. Thanks, Horace. I hope they eventually will, but there is already resistance -- as we expected. Gene From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 05:04:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA15931; Mon, 24 May 1999 05:03:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 05:03:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199905241200.IAA23656 mercury.mv.net> Subject: ICCF-8 Announcement Date: Mon, 24 May 99 08:01:22 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA15915 Resent-Message-ID: <"dsANT3.0.ru3.t_JIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27517 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All, Just got the message below from the new ICCF-8 www site: http://www.frascati.enea.it/iccf8/ Best wishes, Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief Infinite Energy Magazine Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. P.O. Box 2816 Concord, NH 03302-2816 Ph: 603-228-4516 Fax: 603-224-5975 editor infinite-energy.com www.infinite-energy.com ********* 8th International Conference on Cold Fusion Villa Marigola, Lerici (La Spezia) May 21-26, 2000 Scope of the Conference The "8th International Conference on Cold Fusion", ICCF8, will take place in Lerici, Italy, in the week 21- 26 of May 2000. The study of Cold Fusion (CF) phenomena, sometimes referred to as "New Hydrogen Energy" (NHE) is progressing in numerous laboratories all around the World. More than 10 years old, the field is enjoying ever more reproducible experiments and a better interactions with the scientific community. A large variety of experimental approaches will be addressed in the Conference together with theoretical attempts to interpret the observed phenomena. The important sponsorships that have been secured for ICCF8 guarantee that the Conference will maintain the most rigorous scientific standards. List of Topics Heat and related products Nuclear processes and transmutations Materials Innovative approaches Theories Conferenze policy and organization The Conference will consist of oral and poster presentations. The official language of the Conference will be English. Pre-registration, registration and submission of abstracts should preferably be performed using the Conference Webpage, which will be updated, and will provide all necessary information and interactive procedures. Those who have difficulties in using an internet connection are kindly requested to contact the Secretary of the Conference. International Advisory Committee Chairperson for ICCF8: Franco Scaramuzzi, Italy Committee Members: International Advisory Committee Chairperson for ICCF8: F. Scaramuzzi, Italy Committee Members: J.P. Biberian, France T. Bressani, Italy H. Ikegami, Japan F. Jaeger, USA J. Kasagi, Japan X.Z. Li, China M. McKubre, USA G. Miley, USA K. Ota, Japan G. Preparata, Italy N. Samsonenko, Russia C. Sanchez-Lopez, Spain M. Srinivasan, India A. Takahashi, Japan Scientific Program Committee Scientific Chairperson: F. Scaramuzzi Committee Members:(to be implemented) F. De Marco A. De Ninno D. Gozzi G. Mengoli V. Violante Conference Secretariat Organizing chairperson: A. De Ninno ICCF8 Secretariat: Maria Luisa Ciceroni ENEA C.R. Frascati Via Enrico Fermi, 45 00044 Frascati (Roma) ITALY Phone : (0039)-06-94005854 Fax: (0039)-06-94005855 e-mail:iccf8 frascati.enea.it with the sponsorship of: Istituto Nazionale di Fisica Nucleare Società Italiana di Fisica From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 06:06:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA27000; Mon, 24 May 1999 06:02:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 06:02:31 -0700 Message-ID: <005b01bea5e5$213703e0$9fb4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: H-/D- & M+ Ions From Alkali Hydrides Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 06:57:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"xtabc3.0.jb6.ctKIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27518 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex The D- or H- Anions from molten alkali metal Hydrides/Deuterides: Li+ - H-/D- Na+ - H-/D- K+ - H-/D-, etc., gives one pause to wonder if the Proton (+) or Deuteron (+) and the Alkali (+) actually have an Affinity for a Positive Charge? When the Neutron decays to a Proton plus an Electron and an Antineutrino, the proton only has a 13.6 ev Affinity for the Electron , and if the electron tries to get closer than this "Ground State Orbit" there is a repulsive force that comes into play. OTOH, IF, in a collision between an electron and a Proton or Deuteron a Neutrino and Antineutrino Pair is formed and this collision forms a Neutral Particle, CF/OU-Heat effects can occur. >From this, one can see a connection with the "Catalytic" role that the K+ ion plays in these effects? Seemed a lot clearer when I was on the Potty. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 07:11:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA11062; Mon, 24 May 1999 07:07:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 07:07:55 -0700 Message-ID: <003801bea5ee$ae359820$464bccd1 default> From: "Mike Carrell" To: Subject: Bill Wallace revisited Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:06:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"L5z9a2.0.mi2.xqLIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27519 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I said: >Bill Wallace said: > > >>Why can't we hook this up to a camera and broadcast this over the >Internet - >>why have all this technology if people are too greedy or too lazy to use >it? >>A cheap Internet cam will do the trick. > > >"Greedy" And went on about exchange of value, mistaking the thrust of Bill's remark. In a later exchange it was clear that he was thinking about the technology that permits distribution of copywrit material over the Internet for small fees. Well and good. However, the total information of the 70 minute movie is enormous, and it would cheapen it to send a coarse, low-res version. As far as scientific and information content, there is little that is not familiar to long-term subscribers to vortex and Infinite Energy, but it is good to see the famous talking heads, hear the voices and read the body language. Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 08:50:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA02476; Mon, 24 May 1999 08:46:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 08:46:54 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:51:05 -0400 Message-ID: <19990524155105500.AAA282 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"bg4rr.0.cc.kHNIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27520 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Vince, Thanks for the additional construction details. You've put an good deal of effort, not to mention a few bucks into this. I'm impressed. Thanks for sharing this in a public forum, and putting up with all of our babble:) Good luck! Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 10:00:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA00517; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:59:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:59:41 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990524170615.018be330 popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:06:15 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Vortex (Rotation) Dynamics Resent-Message-ID: <"TdcNk3.0.-7.yLOIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27521 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:14 PM 5/23/99 -0400, you wrote: >a hot piece of ass Since this is in reference to what I said, I want to say that I find this statement so irreverent and offensive that on behalf of the women of the world, I ask you to appologize for writing it, Mr. Wallace. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 10:38:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA25739; Mon, 24 May 1999 10:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990524132948.0ac90340 spectre.mitre.org> X-Sender: eachus spectre.mitre.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:29:48 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Robert I. Eachus" Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <6382008f.247a5458 aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"LBk5-.0.4I6.dsOIt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27522 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:06 AM 5/24/1999 EDT, VCockeram aol.com wrote: >Yes,carbon. I hand make each electrode from a carbon welding electrode >mfg. by Aircair, Wichita, Kansas.Cat # 22-043-003 Type DC. >The rods are 12 inch by 1/4 inch diameter are plated with about 0.005 inch of >copper. Carbon electrodes like this are not made from pure graphite. If that is fine for your application, great. The additives, mostly metal carbides, make the electrodes stronger and longer lasting. (Some even have a dual construction, with a softer outer layer and a more conductive inner core to constantly produce the "best" electrode shape. (Which for most applications is a volcano shape, with most of the current flowing through the crater.) But if this is not what you want, you can buy very pure graphite rods, but those are not usually used for welding. Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 12:11:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA08089; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:05:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:05:22 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:07:49 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: H-/D- & M+ Ions From Alkali Hydrides Resent-Message-ID: <"pDQ3f1.0.J-1.nBQIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27523 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 6:57 AM 5/24/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: >To: Vortex > >The D- or H- Anions from molten alkali metal Hydrides/Deuterides: > >Li+ - H-/D- >Na+ - H-/D- >K+ - H-/D-, etc., >gives one pause to wonder if the Proton (+) or Deuteron (+) and the Alkali >(+) >actually have an Affinity for a Positive Charge? > >When the Neutron decays to a Proton plus an Electron and an Antineutrino, >the proton only has a 13.6 ev Affinity for the Electron , and if the >electron tries to get closer than this "Ground State Orbit" there is a >repulsive force that comes into play. > >OTOH, IF, in a collision between an electron and a Proton or Deuteron a >Neutrino and Antineutrino Pair is formed and this collision forms a Neutral >Particle, CF/OU-Heat effects can occur. > >From this, one can see a connection with the "Catalytic" role that the K+ >ion plays in these effects? Seemed a lot clearer when I was on the Potty. >:-) If the above can happen, as you point out, it is interesting because it appears to be a "free energy" loop. We have simultaneously: N -> e + p + anti-neutrino + .78235 MeV (half life 889 s) p + e -> [p + e + anti-neutrino] + neutrino -> n + neutrino + E where E is the bremsstrahlung from the p + e interaction plus the kinetic energy carried by the products, especially the neutrino. The main problem, as you imply, is catlysing, with high probability, the production of the neutrino-anti-neutrino pair (total mass less than 15 eV) simultaneously with with the electron impingement upon the nucleus. An alternative is to momentarily bind the proton and electron until a cosmic anti-neutrino can spontaneously arrive and fuse the neutron (not likely IMHO). I think the key in finding or understanding such a reaction, is that mass must be created in the process in the right proportion to energy. I think any true free energy process must necessarily create mass due to my belief that both energy and mass BOTH normally conserved simultaneously, except that a process that creates (destroys) one must necessarily create (destroy) the other while maintaining a mass to energy ratio of 1/C^2 in the universe. If this is not the case, it think it will be found that the mass energy is simply exchange from one form (e.g. high relativistic mass and kinetic energy of nuclear particles) to an equivalent form (e.g. mass and energy of photons). One suggestion for a mechanism is that nuclei that have the ability to spontaneously do an electron capture can do the neutrino manufacturing trick with a much lesser half-life if this "pseudo-electron-capture" or "partial-electron-capture" is energetic (more energetic than itrh orbital electrons). This would not apply to Na or Li in a direct and obvious manner, but would apply to 40K, which has the very unusual quality of having a half life of 1.26E9 years, yet a natural abundance of 0.0117 percent. It is therefore produced naturally. In addition, it has the ability to do an electron capture. Possibly fairly energetic electrons approaching the 40K nucleus can carry off momentarily bound pairs of neutrinos, manufactured by whatever is the magic electron capture capability of the 40K nucleus. If not momentarily bound to a pair of neutrinos, perhaps the electron might be bound, by chance, to an anti-neutrino, to later effect the neutron calalysis. The neutrino manufactured by the 40K would then immediately escape. The reactions might look like: 40K + e -> 40K + neutrino + [e, anti-neutrino] [e, anti-neutrino] + p -> n I can't say I believe this scenario, because both thermal neutrons and .78 MeV betas should be readily detectable, but it could be just another mechanism at work confusing the issues in cold fusion experiments? It is food for thought anyway. To a lesser extent, Na and Li may have the power to do the neutrino manufacturing in energetic electron reactions, but not to a sufficient extent to spontaneously capture an orbital electron, like 40K. This hypothesis would not have been accidentally tested, to my knowledge. If this neutrino manufacturing hypothesis is correct, then Vince's experiment should work much much better using K enriched with 40K. It also raises the question as to whether Vince might be generating thermal neutrons, and what is a good cheap means of detecting dangerous levels of such. Is film adequate for this purpose? Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 12:19:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12557; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:17:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:17:43 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990524141919.00a5adac mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:19:19 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: H-/D- & M+ Ions From Alkali Hydrides In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"5TWiK2.0.343.NNQIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27524 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:07 5/24/99 -0800, Horace Heffner wrote: >....because it appears to be a "free energy" loop. We have simultaneously: > > N -> e + p + anti-neutrino + .78235 MeV (half life 889 s) > > p + e -> [p + e + anti-neutrino] + neutrino -> n + neutrino + E I suggest that there must something wrong with the 2nd eqn...that, despite our intuition about Coulombic attraction, it should be: > p + e + E1 -> n + neutrino + E2 Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 12:37:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA17731; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:33:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:33:40 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:37:35 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: Shielding Material ..Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"UtT2e2.0.yK4.KcQIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27525 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo and Vince, There has been comment on Vince's use of galvanized sheet sttel VS copper for a shield.... the ferrous material is a great choice ... one gets not only an electrical sheild, but also a degree of LF and HF magnetic shielding by the method of the shunting nature of the ferro magnetic soft steel. J PS: Vince gets three "YB"s in my book You bad You bad You bad Gene Wilder, "Silver Streak" From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 13:26:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30737; Mon, 24 May 1999 13:23:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:23:20 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: H2K: Vacuum Leaks Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:27:31 -0400 Message-ID: <19990524202731734.AAA243 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"s3q7D1.0.BW7.uKRIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27527 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi again Vince, There was one more thing that I wanted to mention with regards to how your configuration is grounded. You mentioned before that your house wiring appeared to have ground wires, but in actuality did not. I ran into the same situation when testing my cavitator, and blew about 10 fuses before I figured out what the problem was. The place that I was running the tests was built in the 1920's, and the building codes were such that not only those buildings "grandfathered" so as to allow them to be continued to be inhabited, but also any subsequent repair work was allowed to be left up to the discretion of the contractor as to the grounding. Subsequent repair work had been done, and ground wires had been installed in parts of my apartment, but no ground fault interruption circuitry had been installed, as is required now in most parts of the country for new construction. Consequently, I not only burned up a lot of fuses in one plugin location, but after changing plugin locations, I burned up some equipment that was also on that same line. I knew better than to do that sort of thing, but I was pressed for time, and didn't consider the ground bounce. It cost me hundreds! It occurs to me that when working with plasma devices such yours, even though you are using relatively low power inputs, that grounding everything to a straight, common ground may not be such a red hot idea. I few bucks worth of diodes might be in order, and the realization that you may encounter or generate voltages that could be much higher than you are expecting. Approach the entire configuration, even the cooling system, as a possible circuit, and you will have increased your safety factor by a good amount. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 13:27:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30044; Mon, 24 May 1999 13:20:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:20:40 -0700 Message-ID: <009101bea622$547b05c0$9fb4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: Subject: Re: H-/D- & M+ Ions From Alkali Hydrides Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:14:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"abYKX1.0.ML7.OIRIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27526 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Horace Heffner To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 1:07 PM Subject: Re: H-/D- & M+ Ions From Alkali Hydrides Horace wrote: > At 6:57 AM 5/24/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: > >To: Vortex > > > >The D- or H- Anions from molten alkali metal Hydrides/Deuterides: > > > >Li+ - H-/D- > >Na+ - H-/D- > >K+ - H-/D-, etc., > >gives one pause to wonder if the Proton (+) or Deuteron (+) and the Alkali > >(+) > >actually have an Affinity for a Positive Charge? > > > >When the Neutron decays to a Proton plus an Electron and an Antineutrino, > >the proton only has a 13.6 ev Affinity for the Electron , and if the > >electron tries to get closer than this "Ground State Orbit" there is a > >repulsive force that comes into play. > > > >OTOH, IF, in a collision between an electron and a Proton or Deuteron a > >Neutrino and Antineutrino Pair is formed and this collision forms a Neutral > >Particle, CF/OU-Heat effects can occur. > > > >From this, one can see a connection with the "Catalytic" role that the K+ > >ion plays in these effects? > > > If the above can happen, as you point out, it is interesting because it > appears to be a "free energy" loop. We have simultaneously: > > N -> e + p + anti-neutrino + .78235 MeV (half life 889 s) > > p + e -> [p + e + anti-neutrino] + neutrino -> n + neutrino + E More like ~ 1.0 ev p + e collision ----> p + e + neutrino-antineutrino neutral composite thereby shrinking the neutrino- antineutrino Radius = kq^2/energy by sharing energy with them. > > where E is the bremsstrahlung from the p + e interaction plus the kinetic > energy carried by the products, especially the neutrino. Creating the Neutrino-AntiNeutrino Pair from Bremsstrahlung IS NOT REQUIRED, the pair is formed in situ, thus the probability (as evidenced from CF/OU effects is orders of magnitude higher than Pair production from PHOTONS, If the RESONANCE ENERGY of the COLLISION IS NOT TOO HIGH or TOO LOW. >The main problem, > as you imply, is catlysing, with high probability, the production of the > neutrino-anti-neutrino pair (total mass less than 15 eV) simultaneously > with with the electron impingement upon the nucleus. An alternative is to > momentarily bind the proton and electron until a cosmic anti-neutrino can > spontaneously arrive and fuse the neutron (not likely IMHO). The Neutrino Chasers, Ron Brodzinski is one of them, claim that the Neutrino rest energy/mass is"less than 0.5 ev and possibly 0.07 ev" thus a collision of an electron with a Proton (+) or Deuteron (+), or even a K+ only requires something like 0.14 ev to 1.0 ev to create the Neutrino-AntiNeutrino Pair. [Snip] Regards, Frederick > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 13:32:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA01332; Mon, 24 May 1999 13:30:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:30:49 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:33:18 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: H-/D- & M+ Ions From Alkali Hydrides Resent-Message-ID: <"Qpq873.0.eK.uRRIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27528 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 2:19 PM 5/24/99, Scott Little wrote: >At 11:07 5/24/99 -0800, Horace Heffner wrote: > >>....because it appears to be a "free energy" loop. We have simultaneously: >> >> N -> e + p + anti-neutrino + .78235 MeV (half life 889 s) >> >> p + e -> [p + e + anti-neutrino] + neutrino -> n + neutrino + E > >I suggest that there must something wrong with the 2nd eqn...that, despite >our intuition about Coulombic attraction, it should be: > >> p + e + E1 -> n + neutrino + E2 If so, where does the energy E1 come from when an ordinary electron capture occurs? It clearly does not come from the (orbital) electron's initial energy. One might say it comes from the appx 0.5 MeV coulomb well, but that is not a good answer, because clearly a neutron disintegration actually releases 0.78 MeV plus the coulomb well energy, which is extracted from the departing electron by decelleration, thus about 1.28 MeV must be initially released by the neutron disintgration. I think therefore that the energy must either be manufactured from the electron-nucleus interaction, or already be present in the nucleus. In either case, that is the energy I am suggesting might be tapped by an impinging electron, followed quickly by an interaction with a proton. Not many nucleii have the ability to do this, so, unfortunately, good control and choice of isotope ratios is required to get verifying experimental data. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 13:51:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA06451; Mon, 24 May 1999 13:47:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:47:39 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:50:08 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: H-/D- & M+ Ions From Alkali Hydrides Resent-Message-ID: <"ypDuL.0.ia1.ghRIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27529 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 2:14 PM 5/24/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] >> If the above can happen, as you point out, it is interesting because it >> appears to be a "free energy" loop. We have simultaneously: >> >> N -> e + p + anti-neutrino + .78235 MeV (half life 889 s) >> >> p + e -> [p + e + anti-neutrino] + neutrino -> n + neutrino + E > >More like ~ 1.0 ev p + e collision ----> p + e + neutrino-antineutrino >neutral composite thereby shrinking the neutrino- antineutrino Radius = >kq^2/energy >by sharing energy with them. [Speculation shield still permanently on] I think the main problem is shrinking the electron radius, not the neutrino. The wavelength of the neutron indicates a small particle, much smaller than the electron, not a composite particle. Getting an electron wavelength down near the wavewlength of proton or neutron requires more energy than is present in the coulomb well. Scott suggests: p + e + E1 -> n + neutrino + E2 This electron shrinking, then, i.e. sufficient momentum or excitement or transformation of some kind, would be Scott's E1 requirement, unless some catalytic process, possibly involving energy borrowing, or some momentary particle binding, can do the electron shrinking. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 14:24:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA17371; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:20:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:20:23 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01bea62a$abf5c300$3c8f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: Subject: Re: H-/D- & M+ Ions From Alkali Hydrides Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:14:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"Kpuk83.0.LF4.MASIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27530 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Horace Heffner To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 2:50 PM Subject: Re: H-/D- & M+ Ions From Alkali Hydrides Horace wrote: > At 2:14 PM 5/24/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: > [snip] > >> If the above can happen, as you point out, it is interesting because it > >> appears to be a "free energy" loop. We have simultaneously: > >> > >> N -> e + p + anti-neutrino + .78235 MeV (half life 889 s) > >> > >> p + e -> [p + e + anti-neutrino] + neutrino -> n + neutrino + E > > > >More like ~ 1.0 ev p + e collision ----> p + e + neutrino-antineutrino > >neutral composite thereby shrinking the neutrino- antineutrino Radius = > >kq^2/energy > >by sharing energy with them. > > [Speculation shield still permanently on] > > I think the main problem is shrinking the electron radius, not the > neutrino. The wavelength of the neutron indicates a small particle, much > smaller than the electron, not a composite particle. Getting an electron > wavelength down near the wavewlength of proton or neutron requires more > energy than is present in the coulomb well. Scott suggests: Come on Horace in Electron Capture (K capture) the Electron is "SHRUNK in RADIUS down to the size of the other "QUARKS"! Likewise for the Antineutrino "quarks" that are in the nucleus. When a Beta (e+ or e- ) is expelled from the nucleus they SWELL UP to their "Natural" size. Do a little bit more reseach into String-Superstring Theory and Circularly Polarized Waves, Horace. > > p + e + E1 -> n + neutrino + E2 > > This electron shrinking, then, i.e. sufficient momentum or excitement or > transformation of some kind, would be Scott's E1 requirement, unless some > catalytic process, possibly involving energy borrowing, or some momentary > particle binding, can do the electron shrinking. The "Circularly Polarized" Length-Only Quarks can exchange Energy/Mass and Radius, But Charge and Spin, MVR Remains Constant. V ~ = c , thus if M decreases R increases. Simple mechanics like a spinning flywheel engaging another that is at rest, one gains, one loses angular momentum. Regards, Frederick > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 14:50:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA26635; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:47:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:47:11 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:46:20 EDT Subject: Re: Video Copyright Date To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"6LfiS2.0.5W6.VZSIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27531 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gene, You asked why I wanted to know the copyright date of your video, COLD FUSION: FIRE FROM WATER. Just an old habit: everytime I make an entry for something in my computer, I like to know the year of publication, or in the case of a video, the copyright date. But I don't know how videos are published, or even if published is the right term. I've been assuming that the copyright year for a video is equivalent to the year of publication for a book or article. Is that right or not? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 16:01:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA15614; Mon, 24 May 1999 15:57:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:00:21 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: H-/D- & M+ Ions From Alkali Hydrides Resent-Message-ID: <"C1SRQ3.0.pp3.rbTIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27532 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 3:14 PM 5/24/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] >Horace wrote: > > >> At 2:14 PM 5/24/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: >> [snip] >> >> If the above can happen, as you point out, it is interesting because it >> >> appears to be a "free energy" loop. We have simultaneously: >> >> >> >> N -> e + p + anti-neutrino + .78235 MeV (half life 889 s) >> >> >> >> p + e -> [p + e + anti-neutrino] + neutrino -> n + neutrino + E >> > >> >More like ~ 1.0 ev p + e collision ----> p + e + neutrino-antineutrino >> >neutral composite thereby shrinking the neutrino- antineutrino Radius = >> >kq^2/energy >> >by sharing energy with them. >> >> [Speculation shield still permanently on] >> >> I think the main problem is shrinking the electron radius, not the >> neutrino. The wavelength of the neutron indicates a small particle, much >> smaller than the electron, not a composite particle. Getting an electron >> wavelength down near the wavewlength of proton or neutron requires more >> energy than is present in the coulomb well. Scott suggests: > >Come on Horace in Electron Capture (K capture) the Electron is "SHRUNK in >RADIUS down to the size of the other "QUARKS"! This shrinking in radius requires energy, and thus a mass increase, and vice versa, so we are agreed on that aspect at least. 8^) The question is: where does the energy to do this come from? What is the mechanism? [snip] >The "Circularly Polarized" Length-Only Quarks can exchange Energy/Mass and >Radius, But Charge and Spin, MVR Remains Constant. V ~ = c , thus if M >decreases R increases. Simple mechanics like a spinning flywheel engaging >another that is at rest, one gains, one loses angular momentum. Yes - this proves MY point, does it not? If charge and spin remain constant, and the radius is reduced, the mass must therefore be increased. The energy for this mass increase must be provided from somewhere. Here are the candidates: (1) coulomb well (relativist mass increase with velocity) (2) the nucleus (combination of the elctron with one or more nuclear constituants) Do you see any other alternatives? Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 16:41:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA28656; Mon, 24 May 1999 16:35:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:35:32 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: H-/D- & M+ Ions From Alkali Hydrides Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 23:34:44 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3749dfc5.85665659 mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA28605 Resent-Message-ID: <"ytcqu1.0.g_6.49UIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27533 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 24 May 1999 15:00:21 -0800, Horace Heffner wrote: [snip] >The energy for this mass increase must be provided from somewhere. Here >are the candidates: > > (1) coulomb well (relativist mass increase with velocity) > > (2) the nucleus (combination of the elctron with one or > more nuclear constituants) > >Do you see any other alternatives? > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner > Obviously both. The first always happens, but is insufficient by itself. Therefore the reaction (electron capture) only occurs where it will result in an overall exothermic reaction. This is primarily with isotopes that are "over burdened" with protons. All nuclear reactions proceed such as to result in isotopes that are closer to the "curve". These are the stable isotopes. (This wasn't meant to sound pompous, it just turned out that way ;). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 17:10:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA02201; Mon, 24 May 1999 16:55:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:55:28 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990524165413.00954100 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: Tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:55:12 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 In-Reply-To: <199905231538.LAA28279 mercury.mv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"AzwWK1.0.CY.kRUIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27534 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is the video Breaking Symmetry available for purchase? If so, how much and where? Ross >Featuring the Boston area premier presentations of two films, shown on a >large screen from digital tape masters: > > "Breaking Symmetry" (approx. 90 minutes) >MIT Professor Keith Johnson's feature length thriller, which will entertain >and educate. (Prof. Johnson's film appeared at the May 1999 Cannes Film >Festival) > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 17:11:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA02885; Mon, 24 May 1999 16:58:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:58:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990524165608.00976ad0 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: Tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:57:25 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 In-Reply-To: <158947ce.24799bcc aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hGNT-1.0.ui.CUUIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27535 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The copyright date is 1999, and well worth the cost. I'm purchasing 30 copies for my investors. Ross Tessien President Impulse Devices, Inc. At 01:58 PM 5/23/99 -0400, you wrote: >Gene, > >What's the copyright date on the COLD FUSION: FIRE FROM WATER video? > >Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 19:54:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA22477; Mon, 24 May 1999 19:50:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 19:50:48 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bea658$d4f4d2e0$81b4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: Subject: Re: H-/D- & M+ Ions From Alkali Hydrides Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 20:15:20 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"VoGPe3.0.7V5.70XIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27536 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Horace Heffner To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 5:00 PM Subject: Re: H-/D- & M+ Ions From Alkali Hydrides Horace wrote: > > This shrinking in radius requires energy, and thus a mass increase, and > vice versa, so we are agreed on that aspect at least. 8^) The question > is: where does the energy to do this come from? What is the mechanism? > > > [snip] > >The "Circularly Polarized" Length-Only Quarks can exchange Energy/Mass and > >Radius, But Charge and Spin, MVR Remains Constant. V ~ = c , thus if M > >decreases R increases. Simple mechanics like a spinning flywheel engaging > >another that is at rest, one gains, one loses angular momentum. > > > Yes - this proves MY point, does it not? If charge and spin remain > constant, and the radius is reduced, the mass must therefore be increased. > The energy for this mass increase must be provided from somewhere. Here > are the candidates: > > (1) coulomb well (relativist mass increase with velocity) Oh, Well. Nope. > > (2) the nucleus (combination of the electron with one or > more nuclear constituants) In the proton there are THREE 312 Mev Quarks, Two Up, and One Down For Any Nucleus there are 5A - 2Z "Quarks" each with about 312 Mev that can exchange mass/energy with External Particles: 2A Up, 2A-Z Down, and A-Z Antineutrinos, Strangely there are No Neutrinos in a nucleus, they are given off during nuclear reactions and they are all zipping around and through us. The Nuclear Magnetic Moment of the Proton even gives the energy distribution, ie., the odd-man-out energy. > > Do you see any other alternatives? Nope, just energy exchange from Electromagnetic Flywheels, and since R = kq^2/Energy, when Energy goes to Infinity, R goes to ZERO. :-) Regards, Frederick > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 19:54:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA22505; Mon, 24 May 1999 19:50:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 19:50:50 -0700 Message-ID: <000101bea658$d6554d40$81b4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Rest Mass of a Relativistic Particle in the Bohr Orbit Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 20:38:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"x4alN1.0.YV5.A0XIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27537 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here's a fun one to work on, Horace. The Bohr "Ground State Orbit" radius, R = 5.29E-11 (meters) E(orbit) = k*q/5.29E-11 = 27.22 ev, but 1/2 of this is Potential and 1/2 is Kinetic, thus E (kinetic) = 13.6 ev. Then: M(rel) = Mo[(13.6/Eo) + 1] But, Eo = Mo*c^2. Now: Force Centripetal, Fc, equal Force Electrostatic, Fes or: M(rel)*c^2/5.29E-11 = kq^2/(5.29E-11)^2 Thus M(rel) = 2.304E-28/5.29E-11*c^2 = 4.846E-35 (kg) What is the maximum Mass/Energy that Mo can be to "fit" the Bohr Orbit? Is this the maximum Rest Mass/Energy that a Neutrino can have if it wants to orbit at the Bohr Radius? Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 22:56:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA12387; Mon, 24 May 1999 22:54:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 22:54:25 -0700 Message-ID: <035001bea673$8cb87020$ed8280d8 btech> From: "Bill Wallace`" To: References: <1.5.4.32.19990524170615.018be330 popd.ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Vortex (Rotation) Dynamics Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 01:57:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"yYIWe1.0.O13.HiZIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27538 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A thousand pardons offendi! > >a hot piece of ass > > Since this is in reference to what I said, I want to say that I find this > statement so irreverent and offensive that on behalf of the women of the > world, I ask you to appologize for writing it, Mr. Wallace. I am sure the women of the world will get along fine without your defense - they have for millions of years - give them some credit - they don't NEED you - they have done very well without you. Time to let them stand on their own - that is if you really care about their empowerment. Don't be a hypocrite. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 24 23:27:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA24389; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:27:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 23:27:02 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990525063410.0188b6e4 popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 02:34:10 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Vortex (Rotation) Dynamics Resent-Message-ID: <"QuCGf2.0.-y5.sAaIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27539 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:57 AM 5/25/99 -0400, you wrote: >I am sure the women of the world will get along fine without your defense - >they have for millions of years - give them some credit - they don't NEED >you - they have done very well without you. Time to let them stand on their >own - that is if you really care about their empowerment. Don't be a >hypocrite. Are you implying that women want or need boys like you Mr. Wallace, who consider them 'hot pieces of ass'? Please don't suggest that you have any understanding of my relationship with women. I've known 5 after 42 years. How many have you 'had' Mr. Wallace? I get the feeling it's either zero or many hundreds. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 25 00:07:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA31945; Tue, 25 May 1999 00:06:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 00:06:34 -0700 Message-ID: <039c01bea67d$a5014800$ed8280d8 btech> From: "Bill Wallace`" To: References: <1.5.4.32.19990525063410.0188b6e4 popd.ix.netcom.com> Subject: Dennis Lee ScoreS! Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 03:10:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"N9i2y2.0.3p7.wlaIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27540 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Please do not continue to degenerate this list with our personal issues - please continue in private. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 25 00:34:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA04371; Tue, 25 May 1999 00:33:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 00:33:21 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990525074009.01884704 popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 03:40:09 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Dennis Lee ScoreS! Resent-Message-ID: <"TNriI1.0.D41.19bIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27541 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:10 AM 5/25/99 -0400, you wrote: >Please do not continue to degenerate this list with our personal issues - >please continue in private. I've had enough irritation for a while. I'm going to have to decline your request Mr. Wallace. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 25 04:57:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA04464; Tue, 25 May 1999 04:57:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 04:57:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199905251154.HAA25124 mercury.mv.net> Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 Date: Tue, 25 May 99 07:55:32 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"uPTBT.0.b51.R0fIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27543 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Is the video Breaking Symmetry available for purchase? If so, how much and >where? > >Ross No it is not, but it may be later on if Prof. Johnson decides to put it on VHS. Gene From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 25 04:57:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA04413; Tue, 25 May 1999 04:57:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 04:57:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199905251154.HAA25103 mercury.mv.net> Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 Date: Tue, 25 May 99 07:55:27 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" , "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"3QHO_2.0.o41.L0fIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27542 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >The copyright date is 1999, and well worth the cost. I'm purchasing 30 >copies for my investors. > >Ross Tessien >President >Impulse Devices, Inc. Wonderful! Thanks! Gene Mallove From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 25 08:10:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA24809; Tue, 25 May 1999 08:06:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 08:06:17 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 11:05:12 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: Electrical Noise To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"5PFwH2.0.I36.enhIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27544 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 05/24/1999 13:24:38 Pacific Daylight Time, knuke LCIA.COM writes: > There was one more thing that I wanted to mention with regards to > how your configuration is grounded. You mentioned before that your house > wiring appeared to have ground wires, but in actuality did not. I wrote: >> The open was in a living room outlet / junction box. It was not >>a failure, the ground was NEVER connected! Shoddy work, also dangerous. >> It's fixed now. So there were ground wires in all my home wiring but the contractor missed connecting one of them, the one that I was using for lab power. I carefully checked ALL grounding in the entire house and it's all good now. Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas Nevada 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 25 08:12:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA26628; Tue, 25 May 1999 08:11:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 08:11:07 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 07:13:35 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: H-/D- & M+ Ions From Alkali Hydrides Resent-Message-ID: <"ge3Ce2.0.-V6.AshIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27545 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 3:34 PM 5/24/99, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >On Mon, 24 May 1999 15:00:21 -0800, Horace Heffner wrote: >[snip] >>The energy for this mass increase must be provided from somewhere. Here >>are the candidates: >> >> (1) coulomb well (relativist mass increase with velocity) >> >> (2) the nucleus (combination of the elctron with one or >> more nuclear constituants) >> >>Do you see any other alternatives? [snip] >Obviously both. The first always happens, but is insufficient by itself. >Therefore the reaction (electron capture) only occurs where it will >result in an overall exothermic reaction. This is primarily with >isotopes that are "over burdened" with protons. In that case 40K is a very strange isotope then? At least compared to the principle isotope 39K (natural abundance 93.2581 percent) which does not capture electrons. Also, 41K (natural abundance 6.7302 percent) does not capture electrons. They all have the same number of protons. "Exothermic" is an interesting term, because if mass is conserved, energy must be conserved also in both candidates (1) and (2) above, if you count the mass of emitted photons as mass. >All nuclear reactions proceed such as to result in isotopes that are >closer to the "curve". These are the stable isotopes. >(This wasn't meant to sound pompous, it just turned out that way ;). No problem, I still have my speculation shield on. 8^) One wild-eyed possibility is that a highly excited [anti-neutrino, electron] or even [W-, electron] might be emitted from a 40K nucleus? In other words, if the electron has a bit too much intial energy E1 to be captured, perhaps it can escape in an excited, but low half-life intermediate state, to later combine with a proton. One problem with this scenario is then what happens to the nucleus left behind! There is an energy balance problem. The major problem, however, is the weak force interactions have wildly low cross sections, and some mechanism for increasing the cross section enormously must exist for this scenario. Another notion is that a free electron can be delayed especially long in the 40K nucleus, thereby enabling especially close approach of a proton, and fusion by tunneling. This seems far fetched too, and doesn't meet the desired criteria of producing free neutrons. Another idea is that during the approach of a free electron to the nucleus, the charge imbalance causes a K shell transition, and cascading transitions, that ionize the atom. On departure of the free electron from the nucleus, no reverse set of transitions take place, but the energy balance is not fully restored due to the exiting electron needing to gain energy from the ZPE sea to restore the balance by climbing up to the K shell. If this scenario is correct, then the high voltage electrolytic type experiments should have an optimal operating voltage that gives the free electrons on average just enough energy to get into the well, and not enough to get out once the K shell transitions occur. None of the above addresses Fred's need for a mechanism to get the hydrogen converted to neutrons by catalytic action of K, Na and Li. At 8:15 PM 5/24/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] > >In the proton there are THREE 312 Mev Quarks, Two Up, and One Down Yes, but quarks are subject to modification into new particles by exchange of the weak force messenger particles, W+, W-, and Z. Electron capture is a weak force reaction. Unfortunately the mass of these particles is 85 protons, and 95 protons respectively, so their energy can be borrowed from the vacuum for only brief times, about 10^-26 s, thus weak force reactions have very small cross sections. > >For Any Nucleus there are 5A - 2Z "Quarks" each with about 312 Mev that can >exchange mass/energy with External Particles: > >2A Up, 2A-Z Down, and A-Z Antineutrinos, Strangely there are No Neutrinos >in a nucleus, they are given off during nuclear reactions and they are all >zipping around and through us. The Nuclear Magnetic Moment of the Proton >even gives the energy distribution, ie., the odd-man-out energy. [snip] Is this a well accepted theory? There are (momentarily) lots of messenger particles in the nucleus to mediate the various forces, but anti-neutrinos in the nucleus? The concept of a neutrino being a quark when in the nucleus, is this a well accepted definition? >What is the maximum Mass/Energy that Mo can be to "fit" the Bohr Orbit? The mass of the electron is exactly right for the Bohr orbital. > >Is this the maximum Rest Mass/Energy that a Neutrino can have if it wants >to orbit at the Bohr Radius? Neutrinos don't orbit the nucleus, they are neutral. Charged neutrinos are one of your as yet unproven concepts - true? Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 25 12:30:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA22339; Tue, 25 May 1999 12:28:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:28:12 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990524160201.00a5a514 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:02:01 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: 2nd Incandescent W run approaches Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Enx4g.0.zS5.CdlIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27546 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have essentially completed the cell for our second attempt at Mizuno et al's incandescent W experiment. It can be viewed at: http://www.eden.com/~little/Inc-W/2ndtry/cell.jpg (26 kbytes) The recangular W cathode can be seen in between two curved sheets of Pt (about $2000 worth loaned by Dennis Letts) which nearly surround it. Just behind the cathode is the glass-jacketed temperature probe. The cell is not yet full of electrolyte. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 25 12:37:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25031; Tue, 25 May 1999 12:33:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:33:41 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990525123309.00986e10 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: Tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:33:22 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Night at the Movies- 5/26/99 In-Reply-To: <199905251154.HAA25124 mercury.mv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"h7obB2.0.-66.KilIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27547 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Do you have an email for him? rt At 07:55 AM 5/25/99 +0000, you wrote: >>Is the video Breaking Symmetry available for purchase? If so, how much and >>where? >> >>Ross > > >No it is not, but it may be later on if Prof. Johnson decides to put it >on VHS. > >Gene From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 25 13:10:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02505; Tue, 25 May 1999 13:06:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:06:55 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990525160704.0079fde0 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:07:04 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: 2nd Incandescent W run approaches In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990524160201.00a5a514 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"4gGVl.0.oc.TBmIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27548 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott wrote: >I have essentially completed the cell for our second attempt at Mizuno et >al's incandescent W experiment. It can be viewed at: > >http://www.eden.com/~little/Inc-W/2ndtry/cell.jpg (26 kbytes) Could you identify what's what in that photo, and the scale? Are the plates on the side the anode, and if so, why so big and far from the cathode? - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 25 14:20:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA26504; Tue, 25 May 1999 14:14:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 14:14:19 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990525161511.00a5fbe4 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:15:11 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: 2nd Incandescent W run approaches In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990525160704.0079fde0 pop.mindspring.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19990524160201.00a5a514 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"zEusA.0.1U6.hAnIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27549 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 16:07 5/25/99 -0400, Jed wrote: >Could you identify what's what in that photo, and the scale? It's a 200 ml beaker....5.3 cm ID, 10 cm height. The curved Pt sheets on each side are the anode and each sheet is about 5 cm x 7 cm. As I understand it, Mizuno uses a single sheet of Pt mesh that is 5 cm x 10 cm which wraps around the cathode. This is my attempt to mimic that using the two sheets of Pt foil that Letts loaned me. My cell is about the same diameter as Mizuno's. I just thought the Pt sheets should go up against the walls of the cell....? The greenish cap on the cell is machined from G-10, an epoxy-glass laminate. It is visibly O-ring sealed to the beaker. Additionally, all cap penetrations are O-ring sealed (Yes, they are tiny O-rings...-002, -003, and -007) The little rectangular thing in the center between the curved Pt sheets is the W cathode....5 mm x 10 mm. It is suspended by a 1 mm dia W wire, which is encased in thick TFE/FEP heat shrink. I got the cell running today...in incandescent mode...but no calorimetry yet. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 25 16:53:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA07581; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:50:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:50:31 -0700 Message-ID: <51894749C42BD111AACB00805F191B5C0215B1FB XCH-CPC-02> From: "Scudder, Henry J" To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: 2nd Incandescent W run approaches Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:10:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"mlu76.0.Ns1.6TpIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27550 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Why not get in touch with Mizuno, and have him critique your setup? Someone in his group must have internet access, and skills, and could review your images at least. Hank > ---------- > From: Scott Little[SMTP:little eden.com] > Reply To: vortex-l eskimo.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 2:15 PM > To: vortex-l eskimo.com > Subject: Re: 2nd Incandescent W run approaches > > At 16:07 5/25/99 -0400, Jed wrote: > > >Could you identify what's what in that photo, and the scale? > > It's a 200 ml beaker....5.3 cm ID, 10 cm height. The curved Pt sheets on > each side are the anode and each sheet is about 5 cm x 7 cm. As I > understand it, Mizuno uses a single sheet of Pt mesh that is 5 cm x 10 cm > which wraps around the cathode. This is my attempt to mimic that using > the > two sheets of Pt foil that Letts loaned me. My cell is about the same > diameter as Mizuno's. I just thought the Pt sheets should go up against > the walls of the cell....? > > The greenish cap on the cell is machined from G-10, an epoxy-glass > laminate. It is visibly O-ring sealed to the beaker. Additionally, all > cap penetrations are O-ring sealed (Yes, they are tiny O-rings...-002, > -003, and -007) > > The little rectangular thing in the center between the curved Pt sheets is > the W cathode....5 mm x 10 mm. It is suspended by a 1 mm dia W wire, > which > is encased in thick TFE/FEP heat shrink. > > I got the cell running today...in incandescent mode...but no calorimetry > yet. > > > > Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little > Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA > 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 25 20:36:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24148; Tue, 25 May 1999 20:33:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 20:33:55 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: H2K: Electrical Noise Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 23:38:03 -0400 Message-ID: <19990526033803421.AAA280 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"vUx7a2.0.Ev5.YksIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27551 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vince wrote: >So there were ground wires in all my home wiring but the contractor missed >connecting one of them, the one that I was using for lab power. >I carefully checked ALL grounding in the entire house and it's all good now. Hi Vince, Yeah, having a functioning ground path is certainly an improvement, but the point that I was trying to make was that you are working with something that is novel, and an ordinary ground path might not be sufficient. The equipment that I burned up was grounded, it was about 15 feet from the experiment site, and it was turned off. It was just plugged into the same line as the experimental device. I've talked to numerous other researchers that have experienced similar events, and read enough now to have, at least, the rudimentary understanding that electricity does not always behave the way you would expect from the training you may have received. One of the misconceptions about electricity that I was taught was that wiring was like plumbing, and it was inferred that electrity flowed through wires like water. It's a ridiculous metaphor, that any engineer experienced in the weird will tell you, just does not apply. The metaphor may appear to be true for simple UL approved appliances like a toaster or an incandescent lightbulb, but when you start looking at how a microwave works, a radar system, or even an induction motor, you can throw the plumbing concept out the window. When you start working with plasma devices and arcs, and you see weird stuff like ball lightning going through windows, coins shrinking, and things like that, you begin to understand that electricity is not like a one-way street or even a two-way street, events can happen just about anywhere, anytime. It's all part of the fun. In the experiment that you are performing, you are attempting to tear apart, and reform atoms with the hope that you can harvest some energy either in the form of heat, or light, or electricity itself, and you hope to analize the gas for transmutations and possibly these hydrinos. It's a gutsy thing to do, actually, and I admire your efforts. I'm also pretty sure that you won't experience anything too dramatic with your set up, but you might, and that's why I suggested the GFI circuitry on all the ground lines coming off of your device. GFI circuitry is not a bad thing to have around anyway, if you think about it. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue May 25 21:08:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA01675; Tue, 25 May 1999 21:07:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 21:07:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990525231107.008f25a0 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 23:11:07 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: RE: 2nd Incandescent W run approaches In-Reply-To: <51894749C42BD111AACB00805F191B5C0215B1FB XCH-CPC-02> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"0VcUe3.0.0Q.lDtIt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27552 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:10 PM 5/25/99 -0700, Scudder, Henry J wrote: >Scott > Why not get in touch with Mizuno, and have him critique your setup? >Someone in his group must have internet access, and skills, and could review >your images at least. I have been in frequent contact with him through the preparation of this cell. I have just notified him of the photo. We'll see what he has to say about it. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 06:10:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA30705; Wed, 26 May 1999 06:09:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 06:09:46 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990526081124.00a5ad20 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:11:24 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Mizuno's reaction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ovJsp.0.jV7.QA_It" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27553 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: He looked at my cell photo and said: >I have seen your cell. I have one question. Did you cover the wire lead of >anode electrode ? I can not see any cover. If not you have to use Teflon >coat on the lead. And another thing, it seems me little bit small hole on >the cap that release vapor and gas. >I think other are very good. No, I don't have a covering on the anode leads...but I will put one on right after today's run, which is already underway. Perhaps it is not important in my case since the lead wire is also Pt and almost none of it is immersed...but I will still put a covering on them. The gas vent port seems plenty big enough to me...At 1 amp, the flow rate of gas is about .2 ml/sec. Bubble....bubble....bubble... Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 06:35:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA05387; Wed, 26 May 1999 06:31:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 06:31:48 -0700 Message-ID: <374BF7AF.A64C4E2B bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:31:27 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Thunderstorm Fusion? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-Vfgr.0.3K1.3V_It" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27554 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Space Science News home What Comes Out of the Top of a Thunderstorm Gamma Rays from Severe Weather May 26, 1999: Springtime in North America often brings severe weather such as tornadoes, thunderstorms, high winds, and damaging hail. But just as powerful and fascinating as what comes out of the bottom gamma-rays that have been observed coming out of the top. more at: http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/essd26may99_1.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 06:54:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA11981; Wed, 26 May 1999 06:53:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 06:53:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990526095221.00797580 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:52:21 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: 2nd Incandescent W run approaches Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jhUvi.0.9x2.Np_It" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27555 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little writes: Mizuno uses a single sheet of Pt mesh that is 5 cm x 10 cm which wraps around the cathode. This is my attempt to mimic that using the two sheets of Pt foil that Letts loaned me. My cell is about the same diameter as Mizuno's. I just thought the Pt sheets should go up against the walls of the cell....? I do not know about glow discharge electrolysis, but this configuration would not be recommended for ordinary cold fusion electrolysis with bulk palladium or nickel. ("Ordinary" used advisedly.) I think: The anode surface area is much larger than the cathode. I believe it should be no more than twice as large. The anode should be closer to the cathode, which will reduce impedance. All points on the anode should be equidistant from the cathode. This geometry is important with ordinary cold fusion because it ensures an even electrical field, and even loading. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 07:22:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA20397; Wed, 26 May 1999 07:19:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:19:40 -0700 Message-ID: <374C02AC.9ABB018A bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:18:20 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: 2nd Incandescent W run approaches References: <3.0.6.32.19990526095221.00797580 pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LslPp.0.e-4.xB0Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27556 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > . . .ordinary cold fusion . . . Only on this list would one read such a phrase! :-) Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 07:24:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA22287; Wed, 26 May 1999 07:23:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:23:54 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990526092531.00a62ed8 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:25:31 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Mizuno's reaction In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990526081124.00a5ad20 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Nrtbu2.0.BS5.vF0Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27557 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:11 5/26/99 -0500, Scott Little wrote: >>Did you cover the wire lead of >>anode electrode? >No, I don't have a covering on the anode leads...but I will put one on >right after today's run.... My guilty conscience just took the cell apart and added the recommended coverings to the anode leads.... The run has been restarted! Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 07:35:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA24974; Wed, 26 May 1999 07:32:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:32:39 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990526093421.00a5c1e8 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:34:21 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: 2nd Incandescent W run approaches In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990526095221.00797580 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"U1kl9.0.666.7O0Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27558 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:52 5/26/99 -0400, Jed Rothwell wrote: >I do not know about glow discharge electrolysis, but this configuration >would not be recommended for ordinary cold fusion electrolysis with bulk >palladium or nickel. Agreed. That and the fact that the cathode is made incandescent (where, according to conventional metal-hydride behavior, it is unlikely to have a high H loading) is the reason that I suggested that the excess heat effect in this cell was not H-H fusion in the cathode lattice. >The anode surface area is much larger than the cathode. I believe it should >be no more than twice as large. I'm just following instructions. Mizuno uses 100:1 in his cell. >The anode should be closer to the cathode, which will reduce impedance. Perhaps...although cell impedance in this case is dominated by the gas sheath which envelopes the cathode. >All points on the anode should be equidistant from the cathode. This >geometry is important with ordinary cold fusion because it ensures an even >electrical field, and even loading. To first order, this condition is satisfied in my cell...and in Mizuno's cell. It is only the non-round shape of the cathode that creates unequal anode-cathode separations. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 07:39:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA27166; Wed, 26 May 1999 07:37:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:37:45 -0700 Message-ID: <374C07DC.F16EABFD ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:40:29 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vortex-L eskimo.com" CC: "E.F. Mallove" Subject: Whether Hydrosonic Pump? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"b2J243.0.Pe6.uS0Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27559 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 26, 1999 Vortex, Mr. Jim Griggs, inventor and believer of the Hydrosonic Pump and its over-unity effects is no longer a part of Hydro Dynamics Inc. He has departed for other opportunities unknown. All of his inventions and patents belong to Hydro Dynamics Inc. and it continues to be going strong. The current president is Kelly Hudson (1-706-234-4111) (in Georgia). The sales rep is David Mallonig (1-256-268-0001)(in Alabama). Cold Fusion Technology, purchaser of a Griggs pump some years back, has yet to test the machine. Let's hope they can find Griggs or still work with Hydro Dynamics if they are needed. -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 09:27:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA32741; Wed, 26 May 1999 09:25:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:25:52 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990526122602.0079e800 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:26:02 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: 2nd Incandescent W run approaches In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990526093421.00a5c1e8 mail.eden.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19990526095221.00797580 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"d7G1G3.0.X_7.G22Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27560 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little wrote: >>All points on the anode should be equidistant from the cathode . . . > >To first order, this condition is satisfied in my cell...and in Mizuno's >cell. It is only the non-round shape of the cathode that creates unequal >anode-cathode separations. That's an interesting way to put it. I would say it is the round shape of the anode that creates the unequal separations. You can't expect the cathode to be round. You cannot bend tungsten. (Round cathodes made of other materials have been used to good effect.) I think flat anodes are usually used with foil cathodes. Another problem may be that you have two anode plates connected with a wire, with gaps between the plates. Most people use a mesh that surrounds the cathode. These issues may not be important with a glow discharge. I wouldn't know. However, a glow discharge is a form of plasma, and the plasma (hot fusion) scientists pay close attention to the fields that govern the shape of the plasma. That seems to be their biggest problem. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 10:15:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA17677; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:13:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:13:55 -0700 Message-ID: <387289327.927738833022.JavaMail.root web04.pub01> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:13:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Goldes To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Anybody know anything about this? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: mail.com X-Originating-IP: 207.44.219.238 Resent-Message-ID: <"3fYeT.0.9K4.Jl2Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27561 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: <>> Mark Goldes __________________________________________________ FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 10:39:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA30427; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:37:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:37:19 -0700 Message-ID: <374C3145.C4629966 bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:37:09 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Anybody know anything about this? References: <387289327.927738833022.JavaMail.root web04.pub01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"E_8l92.0.JR7.E53Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27562 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See patent no. 5,710,531 Mark Goldes wrote: > > < Converter, a new invention from The Andrew Abolafia Co., uses permanent > magnets > as a safe, virtually infinite, environmentally benign and economically > viable new > source of energy. > > It makes fossil fuels (as well their deriviatives, i.e. fuel cells) > obsolete. It also makes > electric vehicles practical; the market for the Static Field Converter is > the entire > world energy market. ...>>> > > Mark Goldes > __________________________________________________ > FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 10:47:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA01587; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:45:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:45:48 -0700 Message-ID: <374C3335.B9900090 bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:45:25 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Anybody know anything about this? References: <387289327.927738833022.JavaMail.root web04.pub01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0lxQA3.0.lO.CD3Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27563 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here's the inventor's web site with the patent information: http://inventor1-y2k.com/newpage5.htm Mark Goldes wrote: > > < Converter, a new invention from The Andrew Abolafia Co., uses permanent > magnets > as a safe, virtually infinite, environmentally benign and economically > viable new > source of energy. > > It makes fossil fuels (as well their deriviatives, i.e. fuel cells) > obsolete. It also makes > electric vehicles practical; the market for the Static Field Converter is > the entire > world energy market. ...>>> > > Mark Goldes > __________________________________________________ > FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 11:04:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA06547; Wed, 26 May 1999 11:00:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:00:16 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Wed, 26 May 1999 13:58:36 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:00:03 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:55:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: RE: Anybody know anything about this? In-reply-to: <387289327.927738833022.JavaMail.root web04.pub01> To: vortex-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:58:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2060ZXYBJYHQ6 X400-MTS-identifier: [;63853162509991/3760082 ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"EjZOs1.0.Ac1.mQ3Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27564 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mark, This guys web page is: http://www.inventor1-y2k.com/index.html Bill webriggs concentric.net ><Converter, a new invention from The Andrew Abolafia Co., uses permanent >magnets as a safe, virtually infinite, environmentally benign and >economically viable new source of energy. > >It makes fossil fuels (as well their deriviatives, i.e. fuel cells) >obsolete. It also makes electric vehicles practical; the market for the >Static Field Converter is the entire world energy market. ...>>> > >Mark Goldes From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 12:48:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA05569; Wed, 26 May 1999 12:46:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:46:36 -0700 Message-ID: <19990526195057.17841.rocketmail web122.yahoomail.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:50:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry Wayne Decker Subject: Re: Anybody know anything about this? To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"zPbLR1.0.zM1.S-4Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27565 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Mark et al! I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but he claims 38.5 KW extra above and beyond the power required to run it. http://www.inventor1-y2k.com/newpage2.htm STATIC FIELD CONVERTER U.S. Patent #5,710,531 The present invention relates to an apparatus for producing electrical energy and, more particularly, to an electrical device for efficiently transforming the energy of a stationary magnetic field into useful electrical energy for use as an electric generator, a dc/ac converter, dc transformer, or a high energy density battery through the use of the diamagnetic properties of superconductive materials. ----------------- http://www.inventor1-y2k.com/newpage4.htm We are down to 40 kilowatts. There is also the electric motor. If the rotor velocity is 3600 rpm and the dewar is evacuated (extremely high vacuums are possible in glass dewars), once the rotor is brought up to it's rated velocity, once the necessary kinetic energy has been transferred to the rotor, the only energy necessary to keep it rotating at 3600 rpm is the energy it loses due to friction from both the bearings and whatever atmosphere remains in the vessel. Again: worst case scenario: 2 horsepower. We must spend 1.5 kilowatts more. We are left with 38.5 kilowatts to do with as we please. -------------------- Thanks for the tip Mark!!! -------------------- --- Mark Goldes wrote: > < Static Field > Converter, a new invention from The Andrew Abolafia > Co., uses permanent > magnets > as a safe, virtually infinite, environmentally > benign and economically > viable new > source of energy. > > It makes fossil fuels (as well their deriviatives, > i.e. fuel cells) > obsolete. It also makes > electric vehicles practical; the market for the > Static Field Converter is > the entire > world energy market. ...>>> > > Mark Goldes > __________________________________________________ > FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com > > === ================================= Please respond to jdecker keelynet.com as I am writing from my work email of jwdatwork yahoo.com.........thanks! ================================= _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 13:31:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA23833; Wed, 26 May 1999 13:26:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:26:36 -0700 From: "George Holz" To: Subject: Re: Anybody know anything about this? Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 16:28:13 -0400 Message-ID: <01bea7b6$472ed2d0$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"mleGP3.0.Lq5.yZ5Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27566 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jerry Decker quotes from the site http://www.inventor1-y2k.com/newpage4.htm the following analysis of available power output from this paper invention: > >We are down to 40 kilowatts. There is also the >electric motor. If the rotor velocity is 3600 rpm and >the dewar is evacuated (extremely high vacuums are >possible in glass dewars), once the rotor is brought >up to it's rated velocity, once the necessary kinetic >energy has been transferred to the rotor, the only >energy necessary to keep it rotating at 3600 rpm is >the energy it loses due to friction from both the >bearings and whatever atmosphere remains in the >vessel. > >Again: worst case scenario: 2 horsepower. We must >spend 1.5 kilowatts more. > >We are left with 38.5 kilowatts to do with as we >please. >-------------------- > This concept is really disappointing. It's amazing what results you can get by neglecting the effect of electromagnetic forces on the shielding element. Interesting that the patent office allows this wishful thinking to be patented, while not allowing cold fusion patents that are experimentally verified. Of course the generator would actually work, as long as mechanical energy is provided, and could be of high but not over unity efficiency. - George Holz Varitronics Systems 732-356-7773 george varisys.com 1924 US Hwy 22 East Bound Brook NJ 08805 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 14:20:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA11568; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:17:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:17:02 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Whether Hydrosonic Pump? Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:21:16 -0400 Message-ID: <19990526212116750.AAA44 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"xIUpk3.0.iq2.DJ6Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27567 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You could always ask me, Akira, I know a little bit about that device, remember? Or you could go to the Cavitation College and read the stuff that I've collected over the past 7 years for yourself. There is a lot of new stuff that I have to add, too, but haven't had time to do. It's still a very viable and exciting technology, and although my interests have tended to wander a bit, anything that I learn, I try to apply to the further understanding of the cavitation phenomena. Of course, if you did ask me, you would have to put up with my sense of humor... >May 26, 1999 > >Vortex, > >Mr. Jim Griggs, inventor and believer of the Hydrosonic Pump and its >over-unity effects is no longer a part of Hydro Dynamics Inc. He has >departed for other opportunities unknown. All of his inventions and >patents belong to Hydro Dynamics Inc. and it continues to be going >strong. >The current president is Kelly Hudson (1-706-234-4111) (in Georgia). The >sales rep is David Mallonig (1-256-268-0001)(in Alabama). >Cold Fusion Technology, purchaser of a Griggs pump some years back, has >yet to test the machine. Let's hope they can find Griggs or still work >with Hydro Dynamics if they are needed. > >-AK- > > Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 14:47:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA20384; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:45:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:45:16 -0700 Message-ID: <374C6A0D.FCEEBB1F verisoft.com.tr> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 00:39:26 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Thunderstorm Fusion? References: <374BF7AF.A64C4E2B bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jfVqP.0.O-4.ij6Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27568 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry Blanton wrote: > > Space Science News home What Comes Out of the Top of a Thunderstorm > >Gamma Rays from Severe Weather [snip] > > more at: > > http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/essd26may99_1.htm Great! Undeniable evidence (for new physics)! Nature take vengence from maintream science. hamdi ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 16:16:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA09892; Wed, 26 May 1999 16:13:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 16:13:29 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: 2nd Incandescent W run approaches Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:17:11 -0400 Message-ID: <19990526231711937.AAA167 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"gNN7H2.0.WQ2.P08Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27569 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed wrote: >These issues may not be important with a glow discharge. I wouldn't know. >However, a glow discharge is a form of plasma, and the plasma (hot fusion) >scientists pay close attention to the fields that govern the shape of the >plasma. That seems to be their biggest problem. > >- Jed You could try putting ring magnets above and below the anode and cathode to shape the electron flow in a circular fashion like in a magnetron. This might help over come some of the "homemadeness" or irregularities of the anode geometry, or at least smooth it out a bit. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 17:13:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA23938; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:10:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:10:37 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: 2nd Incandescent W run approaches Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:14:52 -0400 Message-ID: <19990527001452500.AAA284 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"VHKpD1.0.-r5.zr8Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27570 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wrote earlier: >You could try putting ring magnets above and below the anode and cathode to >shape the electron flow in a circular fashion like in a magnetron. This >might help over come some of the "homemadeness" or irregularities of the >anode geometry, or at least smooth it out a bit. This would also add a motive force to the electrons that are hovering around the cathode, which would decrease your impedance, but may actually hinder the effect that you are trying to achieve. You'd just have to try it both ways to see which is best. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 17:24:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA26572; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:18:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:18:59 -0700 Message-ID: <374C8E8E.9AD5D0CA earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:15:10 -0600 From: "Richard T. Murray" Organization: Room For All X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Britz: Kreysa (German) CF novel 5.17.99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ChKEx2.0.8V6.pz8Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27571 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Subject: CNF novel Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 16:26:25 +0200 From: Dieter Britz Organization: University of Aarhus, Department of Computer Science (DAIMI) Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion Contrary to my usual practice these days, I post this notice of an Update, this time of a novel about cold fusion; you can find it in the Recent Additions file, the book by G. Kreysa, Fusionsfieber (it's in German). It is said to be a novel, but I suspect that it is Kreysa's own story, with only the names of people and some associations, and some geographical locations, changed. Thus, Kreysa works in Frankfurt, Trosa in Karlsruhe; and cold fusion is "discovered" in Austin, Texas, by Werner Rosenstock and Derek Cox (and independently by Dick Cones); etc. Gerischer, the eminent German electrochemist, becomes Gerlach and first mocks CNF, then goes over to the other side, much to the consternation of Trosa. This is in fact the best part of the book, how Trosa (and presumably Kreys?) is torn between disbelief and hope, disgust at certain persons' behaviour and fear of making a fool of himself with his dismissal of cold fusion, when "General Power" pledges $50 million for CNF research - this surely meant that they had been shown absolute proof? It is clear from reading the book why the names were changed, there are some descriptions of certain shenanigans that might draw fire if the right names had been used. Kreysa echoes my own feelings at the time, the conflict between the unlikeliness of all this with the eminence of Fleischmann; surely he must once again know what he is about! A fascinating read. The language is not suited to a novel, more to a technical paper; it is pretty convoluted and even a German, I believe, will need to read many sentences twice to understand them. Carl Djerassi coined the term "science in fiction" (and writes it himself, very well); Kreysa prefers "fiction in science", maybe trying to say something with that. -- Dieter Britz alias db kemi.aau.dk; http://www.kemi.aau.dk/~db *** Echelon, bomb, sneakers, GRU: swamp the snoops with trivia! *** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 17:48:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA03645; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:44:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:44:25 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990526174236.00985eb0 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: Tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:44:07 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Cheap D2O source???? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990526093421.00a5c1e8 mail.eden.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19990526095221.00797580 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1V8AC1.0.ru.eL9Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27572 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Does anyone remember where the cheaper D2O sources are? I seem to recall some 90 percent pure D2O that cost very much less than reagent grade at 99.9 Alternatly, where is a good source for D2O reagent grade to get say, 1 liter? Thanks, Ross From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 18:13:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA12599; Wed, 26 May 1999 18:10:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:10:14 -0700 Message-ID: <374C9CB9.30FF0DA7 ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:15:38 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Whether Hydrosonic Pump? References: <19990526212116750.AAA44 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dngbR1.0.p43.rj9Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27573 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 26, 1999 It is you!. It is you! (to quote a scene from a scene of the first Star Wars). You are the one in the IE issue covering a voretex pump made out of plastic. It was a very interesting article. I expected things to progress rapidly. However. I was too lazy to check on the back issue of the magazine. Apologies. Glad to see you on Vortex. The last thing I heard of your pump was that ENECO rejected the design --- because it fell apart, being made of plastic? Have you had the chance to make it out of sturdier stuff? It had an interesting design, something between a Griggs pump and Potapov's vortex generator but completely diferent. I would have thought somene would have funded a working model of the pump by now. Surely, since Cold Fusion Technology was able to fund experiments on the Potapov pump, purchase a Griggs pump, and write an article about your device, they should replicate your pump (out of metal) and test the device out. Or perhaps EarthTech? Or too many "understandings" to be reached first? Perhaps one the universities researching into sonoluminescense/ultrasonics may becone interested. The stuff should be good for a paper at ICCF. -AK- Michael T Huffman wrote: > You could always ask me, Akira, I know a little bit about that device, > remember? Or you could go to the Cavitation College and read the stuff that > I've collected over the past 7 years for yourself. There is a lot of new > stuff that I have to add, too, but haven't had time to do. It's still a > very viable and exciting technology, and although my interests have tended > to wander a bit, anything that I learn, I try to apply to the further > understanding of the cavitation phenomena. Of course, if you did ask me, > you would have to put up with my sense of humor... > > >May 26, 1999 > > > >Vortex, > > > >Mr. Jim Griggs, inventor and believer of the Hydrosonic Pump and its > >over-unity effects is no longer a part of Hydro Dynamics Inc. He has > >departed for other opportunities unknown. All of his inventions and > >patents belong to Hydro Dynamics Inc. and it continues to be going > >strong. > >The current president is Kelly Hudson (1-706-234-4111) (in Georgia). The > >sales rep is David Mallonig (1-256-268-0001)(in Alabama). > >Cold Fusion Technology, purchaser of a Griggs pump some years back, has > >yet to test the machine. Let's hope they can find Griggs or still work > >with Hydro Dynamics if they are needed. > > > >-AK- > > > > > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > Lady Lake, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 20:38:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA21609; Wed, 26 May 1999 20:37:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:37:31 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Whether Hydrosonic Pump? Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 23:41:39 -0400 Message-ID: <19990527034139031.AAA242 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"XQApw2.0.VH5.xtBJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27574 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Akira wrote: >May 26, 1999 > >It is you!. It is you! (to quote a scene from a scene of the first Star Wars). >You are the one in the IE issue covering a voretex pump made out of plastic. It >was a very interesting article. I expected things to progress rapidly. However. > >I was too lazy to check on the back issue of the magazine. Apologies. Glad to >see you on Vortex. Hi Akira, Yeah, it's me. The facts of the matter are, I abandoned the patent and my company after I saw that table-top cold and hot fusion/fission had become a 100% proven reality many years ago, and was just being shelved for political, security, and financial reasons. Putterman, Hiller, et alia proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt using cavitation, LLNL proved that it could be done with lasers, Farnsworth was doing it with his Fusor, P&F type cell researchers have been refining their techniques with excellent results, the Brown's/Rhodes Gas devices, etc., are all examples, and I've seen some other approaches that would blow your mind. It's a done deal, a given. It's actually pretty easy to do, although I'm not sure that it is the best solution to our energy needs. If you do accomplish the task, and a lot of people have done, and you go public with your findings, which not all people have done, you immediately find yourself surrounded by the weirdest bunch of people that you can imagine asking you all kinds of bizarre stuff. People with funny accents calling in the middle of the night, business guys that dream of ruling the world, religious and political nutcases, voodoo guys, military and militia guys, marketeers, people that work at places that make nukes, and various other brainbenders that repeatedly hacked my computer, tapped my phone, read my e-mail, went through my garbage, and some of them even have expressed some kind of weird interest in my bowel movements. You get these energy nerd groupies that just want to be around (yeah!), and maybe take something personal of yours for a souvenir or something, who knows. In short, I started feeling like I was the object of a number of experiments myself. I don't know... I handled it all, but it wasn't easy, and I know that some of the other people that I have met in this racket have gone through similar kinds of things. As for my technology, the "understandings" are simple, you can have it. Free of charge. It works, and there are applications for it where it would be superior to the currently employed technologies. It's much better than the H-Pump. You just have to make it yourself, adapt it to your needs, and so on. I'll even provide any assistance to any interested experimenters that want to play with it for fun or profit, also for free if necessary. The only reason my website is still up is for educational purposes, and I just haven't had the time or the heart to take down the commercial advertising or make any formal announcement regarding my out of business status. As for the H-Pump that Jed and Gene bought, I got a letter from Dr. Ken Suslick at the University of Illinois about a month or so ago, asking if he could test "your rig", as he put it. I told him no, and explained a little bit why, but he might be interested in testing the H-Pump. His primary interest is in Chemistry and Nuclear Chemistry cavitation applications (material process stuff as opposed to energy research), but I'm sure he has equipment available to him that would make all of our stuff combined look quaint. Jed and Gene might want to approach him, and let him run some stuff through their pump. I don't remember if they mentioned how big of an H-Pump they bought, and Dr. Suslick might only be interested in a small version, I don't know. Worth a shot though, eh? As for me personally, if anyone does want assistance with a project, I'm available, reasonable (broadly defined), and/or free depending on how much time and effort it will require. I'm currently employed as a lawnjockey, which requires long hours, and I'm having trouble staying out in front of the shrubberies. I just know the boss is gonna catch me pretty soon.... Like I said before, you would have to put up with me, and I can be like the worst form of ball lightning you've ever seen at times 8^)> I can be really lazy, too, among a million other annoying things that I can be. Some of my old girlfriends got together once, and made a list things that drove them nuts, and I've got it around here, somewhere... I've just always been that way, and in all probability, I'm only going to get worse, but a life of mediocrity, moderation and concession, at least for me anyway, is not a life. It takes all kinds. BTW, it's whither not whether... See what I mean? Knuke, Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 20:49:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA25581; Wed, 26 May 1999 20:48:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:48:31 -0700 Message-ID: <004201bea7f3$328633e0$9eb4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Carbon Arc Chamber for H2/D2-Potassium OU Experiments Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:42:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"Y0k4G2.0.dF6.F2CJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27575 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex A 12 inch length (nipple) of 1.0 inch steel pipe with couplings, and a 1500 watt, 120 volt(Chromalox) heating element used for hot water heaters (about 12.5 ohms hot) with an integral 1.0 inch male pipe thread with an insertion length of 7.75 inches, can be used for Carbon Arc experiments. For good heat transfer the volume around the hairpin heating element can be filled with pure tin or a 95% Sn, 5% Sb Lead Free Solder which will melt at about 450 degrees Fahrenheit. With the very low vapor pressure of molten tin, a molten potassium pool and/or a graphite "button" can rest on top of the "solder" column. A Carbon/Graphite Anode can be fed through a "lava" insulating seal threaded into a pipe "tee" at the top end of the pipe. The pipe "tee" is to facilitate evacuation and H2/D2 back-filling. A 150 volt, 15 ampere D.C. power supply can be made using 120 V.A.C. and a full-wave bridge rectifier and an electrolytic capacitor. A three prong cord should be used so that grounding the minus side of the power supply doesn't create a shock hazard. Otherwise an isolation transformer must be used. Starting the Arc is a bit of a problem. A tesla coil or an automotive ignition coil output applied to the anode might work. (if you are fast or have a blocking diode in the anode circuit). A Cooling Jacket surrounding this device with water flow in the annular space should provide a convenient means for calorimetry. Again, the cost should be in the $50.00 range. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 20:51:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA26844; Wed, 26 May 1999 20:49:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:49:48 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: H-/D- & M+ Ions From Alkali Hydrides Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 03:49:11 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <374fb682.183461254 mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA26825 Resent-Message-ID: <"YKQco.0.MZ6.R3CJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27576 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 25 May 1999 07:13:35 -0800, Horace Heffner wrote: [snip] >In that case 40K is a very strange isotope then? At least compared to the >principle isotope 39K (natural abundance 93.2581 percent) which does not >capture electrons. Also, 41K (natural abundance 6.7302 percent) does not >capture electrons. They all have the same number of protons. When I said "overburdened with protons" you may read it also as "light on neutrons". Isotopes that are close to the line of stability can sometimes go either way (EC or beta- emission). Note that in the case of K40 about 89% of the decays are beta- decays. This is a reflection of the fact that it is heavier in neutrons than K39. However EC also sometimes happens by chance in this case, because it is allowed energetically. > >"Exothermic" is an interesting term, because if mass is conserved, energy >must be conserved also in both candidates (1) and (2) above, if you count >the mass of emitted photons as mass. Which is why it is currently called the law of conservation of mass/energy, rather than two separate laws as it used to be. IMO an exothermic reaction might be classified (or defined if you will), as a reaction in which potential energy is converted into kinetic energy (which may be the kinetic energy of photons). The real question is what is the nature of potential energy? [snip] >One wild-eyed possibility is that a highly excited [anti-neutrino, >electron] or even [W-, electron] might be emitted from a 40K nucleus? In >other words, if the electron has a bit too much intial energy E1 to be >captured, perhaps it can escape in an excited, but low half-life >intermediate state, to later combine with a proton. Since EC usually refers to capture of electrons already bound to the atom, and which therefore have predetermined energies, I will assume you are adding to the definition. I.e. electrons "fired" at the atom, such that they can acquire "too much initial energy". If you are correct, then such reactions should show up in particle experiments carried out with electron accelerators. > >One problem with this scenario is then what happens to the nucleus left >behind! There is an energy balance problem. Not if an accelerator is used. [snip] >Another notion is that a free electron can be delayed especially long in >the 40K nucleus, thereby enabling especially close approach of a proton, >and fusion by tunneling. This seems far fetched too, and doesn't meet the >desired criteria of producing free neutrons. >None of the above addresses Fred's need for a mechanism to get the hydrogen >converted to neutrons by catalytic action of K, Na and Li. Perhaps the question here is does Fred really need free neutrons, or are they just needed as a means of explaining nuclear reactions that appear to have been originated as a result of the presence of free neutrons? If the latter, then Mills' theory provides a simple mechanism (at least where K and Li are concerned). Hydrogen shrinkage to hydrinos yields a "quasi neutron", and subsequent binding of an electron to produce hydrino-hydride yields a particle perhaps most easily categorised as a "large negative proton", neither of which has a problem with the Coulomb barrier. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 21:12:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA00112; Wed, 26 May 1999 21:08:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:08:41 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: 2nd Incandescent W run approaches Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 04:08:07 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3750c3f3.186903055 mail-hub> References: <3.0.1.32.19990526093421.00a5c1e8 mail.eden.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990526093421.00a5c1e8 mail.eden.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA00082 Resent-Message-ID: <"2NJI23.0.g1.9LCJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27577 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 26 May 1999 09:34:21 -0500, Scott Little wrote: [snip] >>The anode should be closer to the cathode, which will reduce impedance. > >Perhaps...although cell impedance in this case is dominated by the gas >sheath which envelopes the cathode. One might expect this, however I wonder...If the current through the gas sheath is actually carried by arcs in the gas, then the resistance during *the actual time that the current flows* may actually be lower in the arc than it is in the fluid. OTOH, if the current through the gas is more of the nature of a glow discharge, then the resistance of the gas will probably be higher than that of the electrolyte. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 22:21:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA20089; Wed, 26 May 1999 22:20:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:20:32 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01bea800$107015c0$b28f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Chromalox-Appliance Products Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 23:15:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BEA7CD.B6F079E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"FAsTd3.0.hv4.WODJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27578 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BEA7CD.B6F079E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.chromalox.com/products/water.html ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BEA7CD.B6F079E0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Chromalox-Appliance Products.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Chromalox-Appliance Products.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.chromalox.com/products/water.html [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.chromalox.com/products/water.html Modified=E06615EBFFA7BE01AB ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BEA7CD.B6F079E0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed May 26 22:38:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA23268; Wed, 26 May 1999 22:34:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:34:42 -0700 Message-ID: <001801bea802$08e6d8a0$b28f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Chromalox Screw-in Heater Applications Frame Set Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 23:30:24 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEA7CF.BAFD8BC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"O-I2t.0.Uh5.obDJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27579 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEA7CF.BAFD8BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.chromaloxheating.com/applications/app_frameset.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEA7CF.BAFD8BC0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Applications Frame Set.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Applications Frame Set.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.chromaloxheating.com/applications/app_frameset.htm [DOC#4#5] BASEURL=http://www.chromaloxheating.com/applications/app_header.htm [DOC#4#6#7] BASEURL=http://www.chromaloxheating.com/applications/app_leftnav.htm [DOC#4#6#8] BASEURL=http://www.chromaloxheating.com/select/screw_plug_frameset.htm [DOC#4#6#8#4#5] BASEURL=http://www.chromaloxheating.com/select/screw_plug_header_frame.htm [DOC#4#6#8#4#6] BASEURL=http://www.chromaloxheating.com/select/screw_plug_bottom_frame.htm [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.chromaloxheating.com/applications/app_frameset.htm Modified=A0AA4AC901A8BE01C5 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEA7CF.BAFD8BC0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 03:29:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA32607; Thu, 27 May 1999 03:26:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 03:26:16 -0700 Message-ID: <374D1E7B.5AC0AA1C ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 03:29:16 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vortex-L eskimo.com" Subject: re: Whether Hydrosonic Pump? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ckz281.0.Oz7.8tHJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27580 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 27, 1999 Michael, I see you have the stuff to retain a sense of proportion and sanity. Perhaps one day, your efforts will be revisited (soon I hope) by yourself or anyone interested. Later, a pigeon stop may appear on a public lawn for people to wonder about. :) Thanks for the exposition, a cautionary tale. -ak- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 05:56:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA28010; Thu, 27 May 1999 05:51:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 05:51:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990527075131.00a60c08 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 07:51:31 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Cheap D2O source???? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990526174236.00985eb0 pop3.oro.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19990526093421.00a5c1e8 mail.eden.com> <3.0.6.32.19990526095221.00797580 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"z4NBD2.0.ar6.b_JJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27581 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 17:44 5/26/99 -0700, Ross Tessien wrote: >Alternatly, where is a good source for D2O reagent grade to get say, 1 liter? Aldrich Chemical Company, cat # 15,188-2, 99.9% D2O, 1 kg, $406.00 (in 1997). 1-800-558-9160 Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 05:57:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA29187; Thu, 27 May 1999 05:56:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 05:56:16 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990527075757.00a60c08 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 07:57:57 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Anybody know anything about this? In-Reply-To: <01bea7b6$472ed2d0$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"oIXqV3.0.u77.m3KJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27582 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 16:28 5/26/99 -0400, George Holz wrote: >This concept is really disappointing. >It's amazing what results you can get by >neglecting the effect of electromagnetic forces on the >shielding element. Interesting that the patent office >allows this wishful thinking to be patented... Indeed. The guy's main assumption in his engineering "analysis" section is that you can extract the stored energy in the PM core over and over again...and that it will be magically restored each time. It's the magnetic equivalent of the Bessler wheel. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 06:49:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA16824; Thu, 27 May 1999 06:46:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 06:46:03 -0700 Message-ID: <00b601bea846$a620d820$9eb4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990527075757.00a60c08 mail.eden.com> Subject: Re: Anybody know anything about this? Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 07:41:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"8OhwF2.0.n64.QoKJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27583 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Little To: ; Sent: Thursday, May 27, 1999 6:57 AM Subject: Re: Anybody know anything about this? Scott wrote: > > Indeed. The guy's main assumption in his engineering "analysis" section is > that you can extract the stored energy in the PM core over and over > again...and that it will be magically restored each time. It's the > magnetic equivalent of the Bessler wheel. Ouch! That SMOTs. :-) Regards, Frederick > > > > Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little > Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA > 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 08:22:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA12717; Thu, 27 May 1999 08:21:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:21:15 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990527081845.009847e0 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: Tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:20:51 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: Cheap D2O source???? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990527075131.00a60c08 mail.eden.com> References: <4.1.19990526174236.00985eb0 pop3.oro.net> <3.0.1.32.19990526093421.00a5c1e8 mail.eden.com> <3.0.6.32.19990526095221.00797580 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"nxEtJ3.0.Y63.gBMJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27584 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:51 AM 5/27/99 -0500, you wrote: >At 17:44 5/26/99 -0700, Ross Tessien wrote: > >>Alternatly, where is a good source for D2O reagent grade to get say, 1 liter? > >Aldrich Chemical Company, cat # 15,188-2, 99.9% D2O, 1 kg, $406.00 (in 1997). >1-800-558-9160 Thanks, I have that catalog. I remembered someone discussing some 0.90 pure, or something like that, ie substantially lower than reagent grade, but significantly enhanced, where the cost was substantially lower. Anyone know about something like that? I don't recall ever seeing a supplier, so maybe this was just a rumor about a year or two ago, ie, wishful dreaming??????? rt From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 09:05:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA28251; Thu, 27 May 1999 09:03:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:03:59 -0700 Message-ID: <374D6DFE.DC152608 ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:08:30 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cheap D2O source???? References: <4.1.19990526174236.00985eb0 pop3.oro.net> <3.0.1.32.19990526093421.00a5c1e8 mail.eden.com> <3.0.6.32.19990526095221.00797580 pop.mindspring.com> <4.1.19990527081845.009847e0@pop3.oro.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IkZQL1.0.Lv6.kpMJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27585 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 27, 1999 Ross, D2O is expensive. And prices are usually quoted in gram weights. Pricey! However, and Scott can use this source too, quotes their prices in liter amounts, not kilograms. And they are "cheap" compared to some well known chemical supply houses. Visit <> and go down to 'heavy water'. There is an admitted error in their purity content listed as 97%. Their purity is actually listed in their book as 99.92%. I've just confirmed again with them. Their bottle is labelled as >99% so I asked how much greater. Martech is a biotech supply house. They supply biotech related chemicals and heavy water fortunately is one biotech scientists use in quantity -- looks like.. Sterile filtered heavy water: one liter $335.00/L or 2-5 liters @ $320/L. Catalog # 5150 Can be phone ordered (410) 740-0081 fax: (410) 740-2985 Comes in a clear square plastic bottle with screw top. I think it is a 'bargain'. -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 09:41:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA25732; Thu, 27 May 1999 09:34:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:34:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <374D729A.ED8D6F29 bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:28:11 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cheap D2O source???? References: <3.0.6.32.19990526095221.00797580 pop.mindspring.com> <4.1.19990526174236.00985eb0@pop3.oro.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IVkqe.0.-H6.IGNJt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27586 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I seem to recall that one of the Canadian Power companies was selling heavy water. Was it BC Hydro? Terry Ross Tessien wrote: > > Does anyone remember where the cheaper D2O sources are? I seem to recall > some 90 percent pure D2O that cost very much less than reagent grade at 99.9 > > Alternatly, where is a good source for D2O reagent grade to get say, 1 liter? > > Thanks, Ross From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 10:12:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA27525; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:09:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:09:52 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990527100914.00918340 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: Tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:09:30 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: Cheap D2O source???? In-Reply-To: <374D6DFE.DC152608 ix.netcom.com> References: <4.1.19990526174236.00985eb0 pop3.oro.net> <3.0.1.32.19990526093421.00a5c1e8 mail.eden.com> <3.0.6.32.19990526095221.00797580 pop.mindspring.com> <4.1.19990527081845.009847e0 pop3.oro.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hmmSY1.0.-j6.VnNJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27587 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks for the reference Ross At 09:08 AM 5/27/99 -0700, you wrote: >May 27, 1999 > >Ross, > >D2O is expensive. And prices are usually quoted in gram weights. Pricey! > >However, and Scott can use this source too, quotes their prices in liter >amounts, >not kilograms. And they are "cheap" compared to some well known chemical supply >houses. > >Visit <> and go down to 'heavy water'. > >There is an admitted error in their purity content listed as 97%. Their >purity is >actually listed in their book as 99.92%. I've just confirmed again with >them. Their >bottle is labelled as >99% so I asked how much greater. > >Martech is a biotech supply house. They supply biotech related chemicals and >heavy >water fortunately is one biotech scientists use in quantity -- looks like.. > >Sterile filtered heavy water: one liter $335.00/L or 2-5 liters @ $320/L. >Catalog # 5150 > >Can be phone ordered (410) 740-0081 fax: (410) 740-2985 Comes in a clear >square >plastic bottle with screw top. > >I think it is a 'bargain'. > >-AK- > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 10:13:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA28485; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:11:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:11:30 -0700 From: "Ed Wall" To: Subject: RE: Whether Hydrosonic Pump? Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 13:12:02 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01bea864$09db1020$3a0a16cf computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <374C07DC.F16EABFD ix.netcom.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"OEFAH2.0.wy6.1pNJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27588 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Akira, Believe me, it is frustrating to have the Hydrosonic Pump sitting here and doing nothing with it. BTW, it is a 50HP motor. I am all set to turn it on once we have permission from the power company, but that is between Gene and them and Gene is swamped with a wide variety of things (and so am I). I expect they'll want us to try it at night. It has a circuit for controlling inrush current by ramping voltage, so I'm sure it won't be problem, but we don't want to risk relations with the power company. Thanks for the references. Ed Wall New Energy Research Laboratory http://www.infinite-energy.com email:ewall infinite-energy.com Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Bow, NH 03302-2816 (603) 226-4822 fax 224-5975 > -----Original Message----- > From: Akira Kawasaki [mailto:aki ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 10:40 AM > To: Vortex-L eskimo.com > Cc: E.F. Mallove > Subject: Whether Hydrosonic Pump? > > > May 26, 1999 > > Vortex, > > Mr. Jim Griggs, inventor and believer of the Hydrosonic Pump and its > over-unity effects is no longer a part of Hydro Dynamics Inc. He has > departed for other opportunities unknown. All of his inventions and > patents belong to Hydro Dynamics Inc. and it continues to be going > strong. > The current president is Kelly Hudson (1-706-234-4111) (in Georgia). The > sales rep is David Mallonig (1-256-268-0001)(in Alabama). > Cold Fusion Technology, purchaser of a Griggs pump some years back, has > yet to test the machine. Let's hope they can find Griggs or still work > with Hydro Dynamics if they are needed. > > -AK- > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 10:17:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA29563; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:13:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:13:42 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990527121516.00a5994c mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:15:16 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: first Mizuno results Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qi6tU3.0.rD7.6rNJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27589 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have completed the first run with the new Incandescent W cell. I do not see any large excess heat signal. There may be a ~2% excess heat signal but there are reasons to doubt the validity of that. Of course, there is always the possibility that the cell was producing massive excess heat and the input power measurement was also in error by precisely the right amount to make it look like Pout = Pin. A fairly detailed description and discussion of results is located at: http://www.eden.com/~little/Inc-W/2ndtry/run2.html I have sent this URL to Dr. Mizuno and requested his attention to the details of my experiment. Today, I'm making some improvements in the calorimeter which should greatly improve its stability during the sudden input power changes that are characteristic of this experiment. I hope to hear from Dr. Mizuno by tomorrow and possibly conduct another run with his recommended changes then. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 11:55:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA21428; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:43:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:43:59 -0700 Message-ID: <00de01bea870$4a9d9f40$9eb4bfa8 default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <19990527182356656.AAA68 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Subject: Re: Whether Hydrosonic Pump? Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:39:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"OpUea2.0.eE5.l9PJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27592 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael T Huffman To: Sent: Thursday, May 27, 1999 12:23 PM Subject: RE: Whether Hydrosonic Pump? Try www.surplusrecord.com 1 kw to 500,000 kw new and used. :-) Regards, Frederick > > Hi Ed, > > 50 horse, huh? That's enormous. Are you trying to heat New > Hampshire? Any boat with a six cylinder Jimmi motor/75Kw genset combo > (very common on any vessel longer than 75ft.) should be able to handle that > load, and you wouldn't have to wait for the power company's "permission". > You could make inquiries around the ports to the independant vessel owners, > explain what it is for, explain the possible risks involved, and maybe > someone would let you use their powerplant for free or at cost during a time > when the boat is idle or on shorepower. Or, if you prefer doing your > experiments at the Bow facility, you could buy or rent a powerplant. I > would think that you could easily pick one up second hand for around $3000, > maybe less, depending on the age and condition. Pick up some trade > magazines, and look in the classifieds, or do an internet search. If you > take your time and wait, the right deal will come along. A genset of that > size is not a bad thing to have around anyway, IMO, you know, just in case. > > Knuke > > > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > Lady Lake, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 11:59:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA26378; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:53:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:53:52 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990527145400.007a6af0 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 14:54:00 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com, mizuno@athena.qe.eng.hokudai.ac.jp From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: first Mizuno results In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990527121516.00a5994c mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"xbCQA3.0.zR6._IPJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27593 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little reports: Cell power was off for the first 1.75 hours to allow the calorimeter to equilibrate. During this period you can see the cell temperature level off at 40C, which was the control setpoint for the inlet water temperature. At 1.75 hours, about 30V was applied to the cell. This cause a cell current of about 2.7 amps and the cell temperature rapidly rose to about 65C. A 3 hours, the cell voltage was raise to about 140 briefly to initiate cathode incandescence and then lowered to about 115 volts where the cathode was not incandescent but covered with a sheath of fine purple sparks. This cell voltage was maintained until 4.4 hours when the cell power was turned off. At 5 hours, the calorimeter was again equilibrated and the cell temperature was back at 40C. - http://www.eden.com/~little/Inc-W/2ndtry/run2.html If I read the graph correctly, the cell temperature peaked at 75 deg C. This is well below the minimum threshold (85 deg C) that Mizuno reported. His graphs show a slight indication of excess heat at 75 ~ 80, but it is not significant until the temperature reaches 85 ~ 90. Excess increases exponentially after that. Little writes: After correcting the polarity of the cell, I made an attempt to collect the data for the I vs V curve that M-O present in their papers. The results are similar but not identical They are not similar, in my opinion. The graph does show some of the characteristic hysteresis Mizuno describes in his latest paper (which Scott & I have been discussing behind the scenes), but it is missing the abrupt phase changes. In Mizuno's graph, as voltage increases, current density drops off suddenly between 90 and 110 volts. As voltage decreases, it rises suddenly between 70 and 60 volts. In Little's paper there is no sudden transition while voltage increases, and only a small transition when it decreases. The X scale here is not marked in small enough increments for me to judge where the decrease occurs. (Also Y-axis units are different; A versus A/cm2). Mizuno reports that when the transition does not occur, the excess heat is not observed. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 12:14:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA18797; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:21:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:21:28 -0700 From: aki ix.netcom.com Message-ID: <374D8E40.B59 ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:26:08 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: peterg oc1.itim-cj.ro Subject: Re: Whether Hydrosonic Pump? References: <000b01bea864$09db1020$3a0a16cf computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VH3_72.0.db4.eqOJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27591 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 27, 1999 Ed, You're welcome. The thanks should go to Peter Gluck. Peter Gluck (of the Moldova Potapov connection) clued me into the situation at Hydrodynamics. He was trying to ascertain where Griggs was and asked me to find out. So I called and talked to Millonig (not Mallonig) answering the phone number listed on their website. Peter reads the Vortex so he should have picked up the information listed here. -ak- Ed Wall wrote: > > > Thanks for the references. > > Ed Wall > > New Energy Research Laboratory > http://www.infinite-energy.com email:ewall infinite-energy.com > Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Bow, NH 03302-2816 > (603) 226-4822 fax 224-5975 > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Akira Kawasaki [mailto:aki ix.netcom.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 10:40 AM > > To: Vortex-L eskimo.com > > Cc: E.F. Mallove > > Subject: Whether Hydrosonic Pump? > > > > > > May 26, 1999 > > > > Vortex, > > > > Mr. Jim Griggs, inventor and believer of the Hydrosonic Pump and its > > over-unity effects is no longer a part of Hydro Dynamics Inc. He has > > departed for other opportunities unknown. All of his inventions and > > patents belong to Hydro Dynamics Inc. and it continues to be going > > strong. > > The current president is Kelly Hudson (1-706-234-4111) (in Georgia). The > > sales rep is David Mallonig (1-256-268-0001)(in Alabama). > > Cold Fusion Technology, purchaser of a Griggs pump some years back, has > > yet to test the machine. Let's hope they can find Griggs or still work > > with Hydro Dynamics if they are needed. > > > > -AK- > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 12:15:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA18349; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:20:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:20:50 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: RE: Whether Hydrosonic Pump? Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 14:23:56 -0400 Message-ID: <19990527182356656.AAA68 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"33vLG.0.dU4.2qOJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27590 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ed wrote: >Akira, > >Believe me, it is frustrating to have the Hydrosonic Pump sitting here and >doing nothing with it. BTW, it is a 50HP motor. I am all set to turn it on >once we have permission from the power company, but that is between Gene and >them and Gene is swamped with a wide variety of things (and so am I). I >expect they'll want us to try it at night. It has a circuit for controlling >inrush current by ramping voltage, so I'm sure it won't be problem, but we >don't want to risk relations with the power company. > >Thanks for the references. > >Ed Wall Hi Ed, 50 horse, huh? That's enormous. Are you trying to heat New Hampshire? Any boat with a six cylinder Jimmi motor/75Kw genset combo (very common on any vessel longer than 75ft.) should be able to handle that load, and you wouldn't have to wait for the power company's "permission". You could make inquiries around the ports to the independant vessel owners, explain what it is for, explain the possible risks involved, and maybe someone would let you use their powerplant for free or at cost during a time when the boat is idle or on shorepower. Or, if you prefer doing your experiments at the Bow facility, you could buy or rent a powerplant. I would think that you could easily pick one up second hand for around $3000, maybe less, depending on the age and condition. Pick up some trade magazines, and look in the classifieds, or do an internet search. If you take your time and wait, the right deal will come along. A genset of that size is not a bad thing to have around anyway, IMO, you know, just in case. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 12:49:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12888; Thu, 27 May 1999 12:42:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:42:36 -0700 From: aki ix.netcom.com Message-ID: <374DA160.5334 ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:47:44 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: off topic: whether, whither References: <19990527034139031.AAA242 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MSQ_y3.0.D93.h0QJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27594 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 27, 1999 Michael T Huffman wrote: BTW, it's whither not whether... See what I mean? Thanks for the correction. That is the meaning I meant to convey. Hazards of spontaneous (nearly) typing, I guess. -ak- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 13:44:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31615; Thu, 27 May 1999 13:38:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 13:38:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990527153938.009100a0 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:39:38 -0500 To: Mizuno Tadahiko From: Scott Little Subject: important details Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"NQ47J3.0.vj7.wqQJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27595 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dr. Mizuno, In your last message to me, you reminded me to keep the cell temperature at least 70C. In my Run 2, it was about 75C during the incandescent period. Do you think that is high enough? BTW, it will not be very difficult for me to make the cell warmer during future runs. Regarding your current vs voltage plots which show the pronounced hysteresis, do you hold the cell temperature at a constant value while collecting this data? If not, please describe how the cell temperature changes when you collect this data. In my case, the cell became very hot during the high voltage readings and then, when the voltage was decreased, the current readings were quite different. Also my cell only got up to about 3 amps when the voltage was increasing. Perhaps this low current...and the gradual decline in current to the start of incandescence...was due to the fact that my cell was already very hot (~85C) at the start of this test. BTW, I plotted current vs voltage instead of current density vs voltage. However, since the cathode area is 1 cm^2, the numerical values are the same. Thank you for your time and effort in studying my experimental results. I look forward to your reply. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 15:40:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA09408; Thu, 27 May 1999 15:39:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:39:36 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Wither the Hydrosonic Pump Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 18:43:51 -0400 Message-ID: <19990527224351359.AAA195 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"QtCM73.0.vI2.dcSJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27596 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred wrote: >Try www.surplusrecord.com 1 kw to 500,000 kw new and used. :-) > >Regards, Frederick > Hi Fred, I had a look, and they mostly appear to be very low hour units, and they want an arm and a leg. You could probably get away with a 40 KW generator on a 3-71 or a 4-71. I would stick with Detroit Diesel, as opposed to Cats, mainly because they are easier to work on and a lot cheaper when buying parts. These are also quite common as back-ups on boats ranging in size between 75 and 150 ft, depending on the type of equipment on board. They are also used as mains for some smaller (30-40 ft) fishing vessels. You can get them alot cheaper than what is listed in these surplus houses by actually going around to the docks and nosing around. They are about as common as dirt, and they run forever. The ones on the Polar Bear were over forty years old, and we ran them for six or seven months, 24/7. If you can find a more recently built one that was built in Japan with an aluminum block, so much the better. Royer told me once that he TRIED to destroy one by throwing the entire power load of a small village onto one of these (a 4-71). He said it laid down for about 2 seconds, and then came up roaring. If you went looking around a coastal area where the boating industry is somewhat depressed, you'll find at better prices. These surplus guys are pricing them for the Y2K panic. Knuke, the Frugal Guy ;) Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 16:26:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA23322; Thu, 27 May 1999 16:24:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:24:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990527192631.0a8d8620 spectre.mitre.org> X-Sender: eachus spectre.mitre.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 19:26:31 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Robert I. Eachus" Subject: Re: important details Cc: Mizuno Tadahiko , vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990527153938.009100a0 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"DjNys1.0.Ki5.1HTJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27597 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I read your web page, and this looks very interesting. Did you correct for the heat of vaporization of the water vapor entrained in the gas flow? >From your numbers this brings heat recovery during the experiment over 100% :-) but probably still within the bounds of error. However you don't account for the oxidation? of the tungsten, if that is what is happening. :-( Of course, if it is, then some of the oxygen is not in your gas stream, so there is more water vapor escaping, so these effects should cancel each other to some extent. Where does all that leave you? With a very good job of calorimetry, and a possible excess heat effect once you make the corrections. If Jed is right, you might see a stronger signal at a higher temperature, but it might be a good idea to try to recombine the gases inside the calorimeter. Oh, one other possibility that is chemistry not new physics. Tungsten forms tungstenates. If you are in fact oxidizing the tungsten, some of that K2CO3 will be replaced by K2WO4? (There are several possible formulas, and you will have to find out which you have, or what mix you have.) If this is going on, then you are oxidizing the tungsten, and replacing the oxygen in the gas stream with CO2. Ain't calorimetry fun? Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 16:30:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA24906; Thu, 27 May 1999 16:27:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:27:24 -0700 From: "Ed Wall" To: Subject: RE: Whether Hydrosonic Pump? Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 19:28:01 -0400 Message-ID: <000e01bea898$8fdeef00$3a0a16cf computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <19990527182356656.AAA68 mail.lcia.com@lizard> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"PlNTD1.0._46.RJTJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27598 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Knuke writes: > Hi Ed, > > 50 horse, huh? That's enormous. Are you trying to heat New > Hampshire? In a few months, it could really use it! > Any boat with a six cylinder Jimmi motor/75Kw genset combo > (very common on any vessel longer than 75ft.) should be able to > handle that > load, and you wouldn't have to wait for the power company's "permission". Well, we've already invested a lot in getting 440Vac into the lab. NH has some ocean front property, but it's a long ways from Concord. Moving this beast around would require a flatbed truck/hoist setup that would not be conducive to extensive testing. > A genset of that > size is not a bad thing to have around anyway, IMO, you know, > just in case. > Yeah, when we lose power up here for a half day in January after somebody slides into a utility pole in sub-zero temperatures, having enough engine-generator to run the furnace and keep the heat taped pipes from hard freezing is a definite asset. Ed Wall New Energy Research Laboratory http://www.infinite-energy.com email:ewall infinite-energy.com Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Bow, NH 03302-2816 (603) 226-4822 fax 224-5975 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 17:55:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA15529; Thu, 27 May 1999 17:52:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 17:52:21 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: RE: Whether Hydrosonic Pump? Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 20:56:28 -0400 Message-ID: <19990528005628843.AAA162 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"nwA9m1.0.Zo3.5ZUJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27599 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ed wrote: >Well, we've already invested a lot in getting 440Vac into the lab. NH has >some ocean front property, but it's a long ways from Concord. Moving this >beast around would require a flatbed truck/hoist setup that would not be >conducive to extensive testing. > >> A genset of that >> size is not a bad thing to have around anyway, IMO, you know, >> just in case. >> >Yeah, when we lose power up here for a half day in January after somebody >slides into a utility pole in sub-zero temperatures, having enough >engine-generator to run the furnace and keep the heat taped pipes from hard >freezing is a definite asset. > >Ed Wall Here's another idea, Ed, since you've already got the 440VAC line installed. If you could get one of these AquaFuel - "water gas" type mixtures to work on the genset, you could be selling the juice to the electric company :-) Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu May 27 20:57:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA06958; Thu, 27 May 1999 20:54:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 20:54:18 -0700 Message-ID: <19990528035419.7637.rocketmail web126.yahoomail.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 20:54:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: 2nd Incandescent W run approaches To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"r0--62.0.ei1.gDXJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27600 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mesh makes electric field nonuniformities, too. However, the gaps in Scott's anode look small enough that they should make quite small nonuniformities in the electric field in the vicinity of the cathode (says the eyeball of this old hot fusioneer who has done lots of field calculations in his career). Once the gas envelope forms around the cathode, the cathode sees the liquid electrolyte surface as the anode, whose shape can't be controlled in these experiments. It seems that the electrical discharge in the vapor is an arc, not a glow. An arc has hot, high-current density cathode spot(s). A glow spreads out across its cathode and tries to meep its current density low. The edges and corners of the tungsten cathode plate make inherent large field nonuniformities. They appear to be part of the M-O setup. === Michael J. Schaffer _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 28 06:20:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA23929; Fri, 28 May 1999 06:15:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 06:15:15 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990528081555.00a5f540 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 08:15:55 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: important details In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990527192631.0a8d8620 spectre.mitre.org> References: <3.0.1.32.19990527153938.009100a0 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"9S4zs1.0.pr5.YRfJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27601 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 19:26 5/27/99 -0400, Robert I. Eachus wrote: >Did you correct >for the heat of vaporization of the water vapor entrained in the gas flow? No. But thanks for bringing it up. Here are the numbers: During the warmup period, we observed .54cc/sec of gas but expected .517 cc/sec. Thus we had .023cc/sec of water vapor being created. At 540 cal/gm that works out to a heat loss of 0.039 watts...quite negligible since the warmup power was ~80 watts. During incandescence, we observed 0.204cc/sec but expected only 0.18cc/sec. If we split the 0.023 cc/sec (13%) excess gas into 5% excess due to water vapor (to match the excess observed during warmup) and the balance as hydrogen gas freed from H2O decomposed to make WO3, we get the following: 0.009cc/sec of water vapor works out to a heat loss of 0.015 watts. 0.015 cc/sec of hydrogen gas freed from the reaction W + 3H2O -> WO3 + 3H2 turns out also to be a heat loss (because that reaction is slightly endothermic) of 0.011 watts. I realize there are numerous W compounds that could be forming in the cell but, since excess H2 gas is being evolved (and thus H2O must be dissociated), I believe that the energetics of any of the possible reactions will be quite similar to the model reaction above. >>From your numbers this brings heat recovery during the experiment over 100% Actually it only increases it from 99.66% to 99.69%. >Oh, one other possibility that is chemistry not new physics. Tungsten >forms tungstenates. If you are in fact oxidizing the tungsten, some of >that K2CO3 will be replaced by K2WO4? (There are several possible >formulas, and you will have to find out which you have, or what mix you >have.) If this is going on, then you are oxidizing the tungsten, and >replacing the oxygen in the gas stream with CO2. Ain't calorimetry fun? Indeed, calorimetry is "fun"..... Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 28 07:04:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA09568; Fri, 28 May 1999 07:02:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 07:02:54 -0700 Message-ID: <374EA210.FFECDCF0 bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:02:56 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: One for "Stirling" Sparber Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Cp6N31.0.LL2.E8gJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27602 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/brief5.html?ct={{HEX}} New-Fangled Engine Uses Old Idea Researchers have developed a new engine that works so efficiently that electric companies may have to pay customers back. That might be wishful thinking, but within the next few years, the unique engine design could power everything from refrigerators to heating systems and cars. According to a report in the latest Nature, the new engine draws upon some old principles -- first incorporated in the Stirling engine, invented in 1816. Both the Stirling and the new Backhaus-Swift engines create energy utilizing pressurized gas. The thermoacoustic Backhaus-Swift engine, named after its creators Scott Backhaus and G.W. Swift of the Los Alamos National Laboratory, works using helium. Backhaus explains that helium is contained in the engine, like a steel balloon. At certain points, the helium is heated and then cooled. The changes in temperature create acoustic energy in the form of sound waves, similar to the way stereo speakers amplify sound. The power produced can be used to run an acoustically-powered appliance, drive a piston engine or generate electricity which ca n be diverted to even more gadgets and gizmos. Backhaus says because the engine has no moving parts it requires little, if any maintenance. "It doesn't need to be oiled and it's relatively easy and inexpensive to manufacture, since it's constructed out of welded steel pipe," explains Backhaus, who adds that the engine is also environmentally friendly. "One of the first industrial applications of the engine will be to conserve natural gas released during oil drilling," says Backhaus. Currently oil companies burn the gas just to get rid of it, which wastes energy and adds to pollution. The Backhaus-Swift engine will enable drillers to capture the gas on site and then sell it as fuel. "The new engine is a major breakthrough that is going to change the world," says Dr. Steven Garrett, a researcher at Pennsylvania State University. Garrett believes the engine could be used to power solar collectors in homes, car electrical systems, solar ice makers in third world countries, home air conditioners and energy-producing refrigerators. He says appliances that can run on the engine will probably be on the market in about five years. By Jennifer Viegas, Discovery News Brief From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 28 08:59:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA13502; Fri, 28 May 1999 08:45:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 08:45:16 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990528114626.00d16720 spectre.mitre.org> X-Sender: eachus spectre.mitre.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:46:26 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Robert I. Eachus" Subject: Re: important details Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990528081555.00a5f540 mail.eden.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990527192631.0a8d8620 spectre.mitre.org> <3.0.1.32.19990527153938.009100a0 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Md8sk2.0.tI3.BehJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27603 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:15 AM 5/28/1999 -0500, Scott Little wrote: >During incandescence, we observed 0.204cc/sec but expected only 0.18cc/sec. > If we split the 0.023 cc/sec (13%) excess gas into 5% excess due to water >vapor (to match the excess observed during warmup) and the balance as >hydrogen gas freed from H2O decomposed to make WO3, we get the following: I'm not knocking BOE computation since the numbers are small, but I don't think you can assume that the vapor release is the same for warmup and operation due to the roiling caused by the action at the electrode. >0.015 cc/sec of hydrogen gas freed from the reaction W + 3H2O -> WO3 + 3H2 >turns out also to be a heat loss (because that reaction is slightly >endothermic) of 0.011 watts. Ah, but I was assuming K2CO3 + WO3 --> K2WO4 + CO2. You can probably precipitate out the tungsten oxide using say HCl, and measure the amount. (Plus any precipitate already in the cell. >>>From your numbers this brings heat recovery during the experiment over 100% > >Actually it only increases it from 99.66% to 99.69%. Your numbers are probably more accurate since my first BOE was to assume all the excess was water vapor. I didn't allow for the tungsten reactions. But in any case when you are this close to balanced, the differences are much more likely to be experimental error than new physics. >Indeed, calorimetry is "fun"..... You are doing very well. I remember weeks to get three decimal place accuracy, and months to get four in similarly complex situations. We wanted to compute the efficiency of carbon arc lamps, and the problem was getting good power in numbers--you have both the power in, which fluctuates a lot, and the energy from the burning of the electodes. Why so much effort? We were testing different electrode mixes, and the differences were in the one to two percent range. Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 28 12:16:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA10515; Fri, 28 May 1999 12:11:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 12:11:45 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: One for "Stirling" Sparber Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 15:16:01 -0400 Message-ID: <19990528191601625.AAA247 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"O0ZGV.0.0a2.nfkJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27604 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry wrote: >http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/brief5.html?ct={{HEX}} > >New-Fangled Engine Uses Old Idea Hi Terry, Upon not finding your brief, this investigator decided to do some poking around. Evidently the way the Discovery Channel Online Website handles its briefs, is to post them briefly in one section, and then move them shortly thereafter into another another section for slightly longer term storage (two weeks). You can find this brief, and a bunch of other interesting brief articles for the next two weeks at: http://www.discovery.com/news/archive/archive-subgen.html BRIEF 1: an official letter or mandate; esp: a papal letter less formal than a bull 2: a brief written item or document: as a: a concise article b: synopsis, summary c: a concise statement of a client's case made out for the instruction of counsel in a trial at law 3: an outline of an argument; esp. a formal outline esp. in law that sets forth the main contentions with supporting statements or evidence 4: pl: short snug pants or underpants EX BREVITAS, LEVITAS Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 28 13:18:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02055; Fri, 28 May 1999 13:17:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:17:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199905282014.QAA24283 mercury.mv.net> Subject: Mallove-Park Cold Fusion Radio Program Date: Fri, 28 May 99 16:15:21 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"kT4PQ3.0.1W.AdlJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27605 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All, ***** ANNOUNCEMENT *** On July 7, 1999 from 6-7 p.m. ( PST), Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief of Infinite Energy Magazine: Cold Fusion and New Energy Technology will engage in a radio debate/discussion on cold fusion with Professor Robert L. Park of the University of Maryland Dept. of Physics, who is also a spokesman for the American Physical Society. This program was kindly arranged by Michael Shermer, editor of The Skeptic Magazine. Michael Shermer is the host of SCIENCE TALK on KPCC, 89.3 FM, the NPR affiliate for Southern California, from 6:00-7:00pm Wednesdays, PST. This is drive-time Los Angeles and the radio station has a large and loyal following. The show will be conducted by telephone link up, with Eugene Mallove in New Hampshire and Robert Park in Maryland. Michael Shermer and his co-host Larry Mantle will moderate. Michael Shermer described the show to Eugene Mallove in a recent e-mail: "It is a very conservative show (no shouting, etc.) and the format is what we call "intelligent talk." We have a million listeners sitting in their automobiles stuck in traffic, so we get some great car-phone calls (it is a call-in show). We'll do the first half hour or so with just discussing cold fusion and other forms of energy and then go to the phones. There are no commercials (this is NPR) and just a couple of traffic and news breaks, so there is plenty of time for thoughtful discussion (i.e., we don't need to have just sound bites)." This will be an excellent opportunity for those who are interested in the cold fusion controversy to listen to two quite opposite viewpoints on the significance of data that are being reported by scientists world-wide in what has come to be known as the cold fusion or low-energy nuclear reaction (LENR) field. I look forward to an open discussion with Dr. Park of the scientific evidence, theories, and the history, and the socio-political dynamics of this field. Sincerely, Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief Infinite Energy Magazine Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. P.O. Box 2816 Concord, NH 03302-2816 Ph: 603-228-4516 Fax: 603-224-5975 editor infinite-energy.com www.infinite-energy.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 28 13:39:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA07377; Fri, 28 May 1999 13:38:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:38:05 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 12:40:42 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Mallove-Park Cold Fusion Radio Program Resent-Message-ID: <"iV0jU2.0.9p1.iwlJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27606 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 8:15 AM 5/28/99, E.F. Mallove wrote: >On July 7, 1999 from 6-7 p.m. ( PST), Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, >Editor-in-Chief of Infinite Energy Magazine: Cold Fusion and New Energy >Technology will engage in a radio debate/discussion on cold fusion with >Professor Robert L. Park of the University of Maryland Dept. of >Physics [snip] Hot diggity! Weds, 7/7/99. I hope it is broadcast nationally, or becomes available on the NPR website. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 28 13:55:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA12399; Fri, 28 May 1999 13:52:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:52:16 -0700 Message-ID: <374F0295.849C3AFD ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:54:46 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mallove-Park Cold Fusion Radio Program References: <199905282014.QAA24283 mercury.mv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DXNm03.0.f13.08mJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27607 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 28, 1999 Sounds great! Just happens to be in my neighborhood. Will try recording it. July 7, Wednesday huh? It's over a month away! Can you give us a reminder closer to the date of the broadcast? I forget easier nowdays of upcoming events. Maybe I'll try calling in --- about the session reported on by Jed at the APS Centennial --- or perhaps Jed could be joined with Gene to cover that part. What did Park actually do for a living before becoming the head of APS? -AK- E.F. Mallove wrote: > All, > > ***** ANNOUNCEMENT *** > > On July 7, 1999 from 6-7 p.m. ( PST), Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, > Editor-in-Chief of Infinite Energy Magazine: Cold Fusion and New Energy > Technology will engage in a radio debate/discussion on cold fusion with > Professor Robert L. Park of the University of Maryland Dept. of > Physics, who is also a spokesman for the American Physical Society. > > This program was kindly arranged by Michael Shermer, editor of The > Skeptic Magazine. Michael Shermer is the host of SCIENCE TALK on KPCC, > 89.3 FM, the NPR affiliate for Southern California, from 6:00-7:00pm > Wednesdays, PST. This is drive-time Los Angeles and the radio station > has a large and loyal following. > > The show will be conducted by telephone link up, with Eugene Mallove in > New Hampshire and Robert Park in Maryland. Michael Shermer and his > co-host Larry Mantle will moderate. > > Michael Shermer described the show to Eugene Mallove in a recent e-mail: > "It is a very conservative show (no shouting, etc.) and the format is > what we call "intelligent talk." We have a million listeners sitting in > their automobiles stuck in traffic, so we get some great car-phone calls > (it is a call-in show). We'll do the first half hour or so with just > discussing cold fusion and other forms of energy and then go to the > phones. There are no commercials (this is NPR) and just a couple of > traffic and news breaks, so there is plenty of time for thoughtful > discussion (i.e., we don't need to have just sound bites)." > > This will be an excellent opportunity for those who are interested in the > cold fusion controversy to listen to two quite opposite viewpoints on the > significance of data that are being reported by scientists world-wide in > what has come to be known as the cold fusion or low-energy nuclear > reaction (LENR) field. > > I look forward to an open discussion with Dr. Park of the scientific > evidence, theories, and the history, and the socio-political dynamics of > this field. > > Sincerely, > > Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief > Infinite Energy Magazine > Cold Fusion Technology, Inc. > P.O. Box 2816 > Concord, NH 03302-2816 > > Ph: 603-228-4516 > Fax: 603-224-5975 > > editor infinite-energy.com > www.infinite-energy.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 28 14:30:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA21008; Fri, 28 May 1999 14:27:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 14:27:54 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990528162916.00a5814c mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:29:16 -0500 To: Mizuno Tadahiko From: Scott Little Subject: current vs voltage Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"rvlnD3.0.385.QfmJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27608 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dr. Mizuno, I have measured the current-voltage characteristic of my cell more carefully. The results may be found at: http://www.eden.com/~little/Inc-W/2ndtry/iv.html Please examine them. My cell behaves somewhat differently from yours. Do you think it is an important difference? Thanks Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 28 15:51:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06831; Fri, 28 May 1999 15:50:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 15:50:39 -0700 Message-Id: <199905282248.SAA22701 mercury.mv.net> Subject: Re: Mallove-Park Cold Fusion Radio Program Date: Fri, 28 May 99 18:48:53 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"fqM_j1.0.fg1._snJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27609 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace wrote: >Hot diggity! Make that Cold diggity, please.... :) Gene From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 28 15:52:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA07211; Fri, 28 May 1999 15:51:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 15:51:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199905282248.SAA22822 mercury.mv.net> Subject: Re: Mallove-Park Cold Fusion Radio Program Date: Fri, 28 May 99 18:49:14 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" , "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"BQb3r.0.bm1.LtnJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27610 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Akira wrote: >May 28, 1999 > >Sounds great! Just happens to be in my neighborhood. Will try recording it. >July 7, Wednesday huh? It's over a month away! Glad you wil record it. Please send me a copy. >Can you give us a reminder >closer to the date of the broadcast? Yes, of course. > I forget easier nowdays of upcoming >events. Maybe I'll try calling in --- about the session reported on by Jed at >the APS Centennial --- or perhaps Jed could be joined with Gene to cover that >part. One voice is best. I have heard the entiee session that Jed attended. >What did Park actually do for a living before becoming the head of APS? He is NOT head of hte APS. In fact, his "What's new" column listed on the APS home page says this: <<<<< (Note: Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the APS, but they should be.">>>>> That would be like me having a column in Infinite Energy and having to say a similar thing! I am sure ther are some APS members who would rather not have Park on the APS home page at all. On the other hand, I am sure most APS members appreciate his bigotry against things they "know can't be." I think his column should be renamed: "What's new that I hate." Gene Mallove > >-AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 28 17:24:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA31425; Fri, 28 May 1999 17:21:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 17:21:30 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01bea968$9a365ee0$578f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Putting "Fire From Ice", to the test Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:16:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"Ft9m22.0.xg7.ACpJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27611 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex FWIW, the tenuous vapor of frozen D2O or H2O containing K2CO3 might show some interesting thermal properties if a few grams are frozen in a Dewar evacuated to the millitorr pressure range. With a kinetic energy: 1/2 mv^2 = kT where the collision Mean Free Path can be several centimeters and the velocity approaches 1.5E5 centimeters/second at 273 K, there could be some interesting OU effects as the temperature and pressure vary (if a heater is employed). Perhaps Gene has a spare Thermos? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 28 17:59:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA06898; Fri, 28 May 1999 17:59:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 17:59:08 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mallove-Park Cold Fusion Radio Program Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 00:58:34 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <374f3b14.348518060 mail-hub> References: <199905282248.SAA22822 mercury.mv.net> In-Reply-To: <199905282248.SAA22822 mercury.mv.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA06873 Resent-Message-ID: <"vvAJu2.0.bh1.RlpJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27612 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 28 May 99 18:49:14 -0000, E.F. Mallove wrote: [snip] >>Sounds great! Just happens to be in my neighborhood. Will try recording it. >>July 7, Wednesday huh? It's over a month away! > >Glad you wil record it. Please send me a copy. [snip] Gene, since you are the main attraction, wouldn't the radio station give you a recording of the show gratis? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 28 20:31:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA07828; Fri, 28 May 1999 20:30:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 20:30:15 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: important details Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 23:34:31 -0400 Message-ID: <19990529033431046.AAA284 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"mFXd33.0.Ew1.7zrJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27613 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott wrote: >I realize there are numerous W compounds that could be forming in the cell >but, since excess H2 gas is being evolved (and thus H2O must be >dissociated), I believe that the energetics of any of the possible >reactions will be quite similar to the model reaction above. > >>>From your numbers this brings heat recovery during the experiment over 100% > >Actually it only increases it from 99.66% to 99.69%. > >>Oh, one other possibility that is chemistry not new physics. Tungsten >>forms tungstenates. If you are in fact oxidizing the tungsten, some of >>that K2CO3 will be replaced by K2WO4? (There are several possible >>formulas, and you will have to find out which you have, or what mix you >>have.) If this is going on, then you are oxidizing the tungsten, and >>replacing the oxygen in the gas stream with CO2. Ain't calorimetry fun? > >Indeed, calorimetry is "fun"..... Hi Scott, Haven't been to your website for a while, very impressive. I went over the two experiments on your website a couple of times, and I want to make sure about I have this right. In the first run you are using a Thoriated W rod, which by the photos, looks like quite a lot of it goes missing during the run. Did you weigh these, and I missed it somewhere? Also, the incandescence seems to be of quite a large spectrum. Has this been measured? Third, since the rods have Thorium in them, and you are producing sparks capable of dissociating H2, which will zip the H right into the rods, and recombine, sublimating the W among other things at very high local temps, and doing Bob knows what to the Thorium, did you weigh the apparatus with and without the rods before the run and after the run, and did you have a Geiger counter on it? Did you know that a very small amount of Teflon gas can kill you? Is there some other substance that you could use to insulate those rods, that would be more inert, like maybe dunking them into molten glass? Last but not least, instead of doing numbers and calling it calorimetry, have you actually tried to measure the heat at the recombiner? It seems that with the numerous fires, explosions, etc. that maybe it's hot in there. Also, maybe you could do a two stage recombiner with the second stage open to the air to allow the oxygen that went missing forming all those other compounds to be replaced and unite with the left over H2. Use a second flashback screen, too. And measure the actual heat on that, too. One more thing :) have you checked or replaced those beads in the recombiner? With all that stuff in the gas, they may not be working at full capacity anymore. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 28 21:07:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA16081; Fri, 28 May 1999 21:00:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:00:41 -0700 Message-Id: <199905290358.XAA09871 mercury.mv.net> Subject: Re: Mallove-Park Cold Fusion Radio Program Date: Fri, 28 May 99 23:58:54 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" , "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"DdmX9.0.7x3.fPsJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27614 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Gene, since you are the main attraction, wouldn't the radio station give >you a recording of the show gratis? > Yes, but they are not always very quick to send out such tapes. I'd like to get one in two days, if possible, so our fast-working colleagues can transcribe it as quickly as possible. On the other hand, I might just rig up a recording device on the phone. Gene From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 28 21:42:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA03545; Fri, 28 May 1999 21:41:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:41:41 -0700 Message-Id: <199905290439.AAA13349 mercury.mv.net> Subject: George Miley's LENR work now DOE funded Date: Sat, 29 May 99 00:39:51 -0000 x-sender: zeropoint-ed pop.mv.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "E.F. Mallove" To: "VORTEX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"9cikM2.0.Jt.40tJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27615 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: News that I had known about has now been made public by someone else. See below. Gene Mallove Originally-From: john.vetrano pnl.gov (John S. Vetrano) Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion Subject: LENR Program Funded Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:00:45 -0700 Organization: Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Despite the conspiracy theory that the "establishment" and the US government are unfairly squashing any research into cold fusion-type phenomena, Professor Miley has apparently received a grant from the U.S. Dept. of Energy NERI (Nuclear Energy Research Initiatives?) program to study Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR). That should be quite interesting. I don't know what his previous funding source was or what the amount of his new grant is, but hopefully it is enough to either prove or disprove these hypotheses (sp?). Congratulations are in order since these proposals were rigorously reviewed and only a small percentage (don't recall the number) were funded. Info about NERI can be found at http://neri.ne.doe.gov/ Just thought that this would be of interest. Cheers, John Vetrano Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA USA From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri May 28 22:33:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA15215; Fri, 28 May 1999 22:32:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 22:32:27 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: important details Addendum Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 01:36:39 -0400 Message-ID: <19990529053639609.AAA85 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"23Yil2.0.ej3.gltJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27616 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Scott, It's me again. Just a few more suggestions for getting heat out of your device. If the light that is being produced contains UV (and it wouldn't surpise me), you should switch the inner container to a quartz glass jar instead of the borosilicate. This would allow the UV to convert the "coupling water" in the outer container to H2O2 which would add to the heat going into the cooling water. You can then check for this (H2O2) with a reagent from Hach. Don't use the strips, use the reagent. it's much more accurate, and in your part of the world, much more long lasting. They both cost the same. If you need a supplier of quartz glass labware, I've got one somewhere, it would take a few minutes to look up. Also, and I know this may sound even stranger than the other stuff I've mentioned, but you should start weighing the caps before and after the runs. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 29 00:42:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA32403; Sat, 29 May 1999 00:39:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 00:39:58 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 03:38:49 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: Calibration To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: Verdian aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"f6STz.0.Dw7.DdvJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27617 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All, I have been busy with trying to pin down the electrical characteristics of the high voltage transformer for the past two weeks. It's difficult but I think I am getting to understand it. I have run several tests varying the input voltage to the transformer with several different resistance loads on the high voltage output. I am glad I purchased a maintenance contract for the Radio Shack digital multimeter...It fried when a load resistor failed at a high power input and the meter was suddenly confronted with about 6 kV or so...It did not survive. After turning it in for repair I decided to construct a voltage divider. I ended up with a really nice black box that plugs directly into the meter jacks and has switchable x100 and x1000 ranges. The divider uses two 10 megohm resistors in series for the high end and after calibration it worked like a charm. I couldn't wait the three weeks for the meter repair so I purchased another less expensive one for about 70 bucks (Radio Shack) ...and a repair contract also. Tonight I ran a test using a 54 Kohm load on the high voltage output, varying the input voltage to the transformer in 100 volt steps from 500 volts up to 1000 volts. I monitored input volts, input watts (watt-hour meter), output watts (V x I). The maximum output voltage with the 54 Kohm load got up to ~1080 volts at full line voltage input. (121.5 VAC) I will run an additional test, same protocol, with a 100 Kohm load resistor. With the 54 Kohm load the test showed that the transformer outputs about 18 watts at a 40 watt input. I recorded input watts, output voltage and output amperes using the watt-hour meter and two true RMS digital multimeters. The data below for output watts is derived from V x I of the two digital meters. A non inductive resistive load was used with one meter across the load and the other in series with the load. Here are the data from tonight's testing: Outvolts---Outwatts---Inwatts 500------------4.6--------9.2 600------------6.6-------13.6 700------------9.1-------19.2 800----------11.8-------25.8 900----------14.9-------33.4 1000--------18.5-------41.8 I need to run another test using a 100 Kohm load because last years testing with the H2 glow tube showed the tube voltage could get up to 1500 volts. I want to cover the range of possible tube voltages using a known resistance so I will know the power going to the tube. Off day tomorrow as I must replace my vehicles air conditioning compressor and associated parts. It was 98 F here today and I was running around town chasing meters and such and my in car thermometer was up at 120 F...Not nice for parts chasing. Good weekend to all. Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas Nevada 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 29 02:42:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA13760; Sat, 29 May 1999 02:40:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 02:40:51 -0700 Message-ID: <374FB6D7.31B76857 ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 02:43:52 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: George Miley's LENR work now DOE funded References: <199905290439.AAA13349 mercury.mv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_1kid1.0.rM3.ZOxJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27618 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 29, 1999 Russ, Just fowarding a fowarding news item from somebody at PNL. Probably this is why Gene was asking you about your work PNL --- based on his knowledge of this item. He did not explain himself for asking. At least there seems to be better prospects for getting funding for your 'joint venture' with GA --- better get a move on! On the investment banking investigation: The outfit's name is Trenwith located at Newport Beach. Their financing interest lies at a minimum of $5,000,000.00 and upward. Kinda out of our league --- for the moment. They handle stuff that Smith-Barney wouldn't be interested for size. Local region outfit. Probably more out there in Palo Alto Land. Wouldn't hurt to inquire there. The principal contact guy is Anderson --- I just called up and asked for a 'brochure'. -AK- E.F. Mallove wrote: > News that I had known about has now been made public by someone else. > See below. > > Gene Mallove > > Originally-From: john.vetrano pnl.gov (John S. Vetrano) > Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion > Subject: LENR Program Funded > Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:00:45 -0700 > Organization: Pacific Northwest National Laboratory > > Despite the conspiracy theory that the "establishment" and the US > government are unfairly squashing any research into cold fusion-type > phenomena, Professor Miley has apparently received a grant from the U.S. > Dept. of Energy NERI (Nuclear Energy Research Initiatives?) program to > study Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR). That should be quite > interesting. I don't know what his previous funding source was or what > the amount of his new grant is, but hopefully it is enough to either prove > or disprove these hypotheses (sp?). Congratulations are in order since > these proposals were rigorously reviewed and only a small percentage > (don't recall the number) were funded. Info about NERI can be found at > http://neri.ne.doe.gov/ > > Just thought that this would be of interest. > > Cheers, John Vetrano > Pacific Northwest National Laboratory > Richland, WA USA From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 29 03:01:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA16772; Sat, 29 May 1999 02:58:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 02:58:29 -0700 Message-ID: <374FBAF9.5747B00F ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 03:01:30 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: George Miley's LENR work now DOE funded References: <199905290439.AAA13349 mercury.mv.net> <374FB6D7.31B76857@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FPoYR3.0.-54.5fxJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27619 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: May 29, 1999 Vortex, Oops! Must be the time in the morning. I did something Mark Hugo did in the past except his was more private. Oh well, at least it is a view to what is undercurrent in the cold fusion field. Gene and many others are aware that this is common --- as he himself revealed since his revelation appeared in the spf. Too bad so much of it has to be undercurrent. Maybe this 'fauz-pas' was psychological. :) Anyway, things are moving along. For the most part, I am still in the 'peanut gallery'. -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 29 05:22:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA30382; Sat, 29 May 1999 05:21:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 05:21:35 -0700 Message-ID: <19990529122308.26784.rocketmail send205.yahoomail.com> Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 05:23:08 -0700 (PDT) From: ron kita Subject: CoFE/Tom Valone/Parks To: vortex-l eskimo.com Cc: iri erols.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"fBEar2.0.eQ7.FlzJt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27620 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Valone is being called on the "carpet" again for alledgedly dragging the patent office into fringe science. Also, Robert Parks of the American Physical Society has maintained his constant attacks. The patent office and fringe science......the patent office itself maintains a web page of funny patents.....the patent office has always pandered to fringe science..they always took their money...knowing their devices weren t marketable. It is the marketplace that determined true science....all real breakthroughs come from the fringe or edges of science. Tom is under attack-- he could use some help against the MENACE.....any thoughts????? Best, Ron Kita, economist , practitioner of the dismal sciences The CoFE meeting was a breath of fresh air in Washington that now is being snuffed out by HOT air _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 29 06:41:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA09303; Sat, 29 May 1999 06:40:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 06:40:07 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bea9d8$2a614380$4b8f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: One for "Stirling" Blanton; The Backhaus-Swift Engine Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 07:34:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"M_tLE1.0.HH2.tu-Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27621 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry: > >New-Fangled Engine Uses Old Idea > The Backhaus-Swift (Los Alamos) Engine must be using an application of the Sondhauss Tube: " A device that converts heat to acoustic energy by heating a small glass bulb that is attached to a cool glass stem whose tip radiates sound." These devices were looked at in the 60s for using Radioisotope heat for power generation and also for Marine navigation Buoys. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 29 07:42:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA17993; Sat, 29 May 1999 07:41:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 07:41:32 -0700 Message-ID: <001301bea9e0$beb73a00$4b8f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: One for "Stirling" Blanton, The Backhaus-Swift Engine Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 08:36:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"mCMCW2.0._O4.So_Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27622 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry: The Thermoacoustic Engines might do quite well on low-grade CF heat. At 120 Decibels (about 2.9E-3 PSI) you can aim the acoustic vibrations at the "Woofers and Tweeters" of your Boom Box and make your power meter run backwards, or at least recharge the batteries. :-) The permanent magnet-voice coil speakers act as a linear power generator. Then again you might feed the output to a F&P cell to set up a positive Thermoacoustic-Electrochemical feedback system that could level Atlanta, again? :-) I have a Sony Boom Box with CD and tape functions that has a Remote (which is why I bought it)so I can switch between it and the Tv without bothering to get up from my easy chair. Perhaps if I shout back at it, I can lower my 500 kw-hr/month electric bill. More Power To You, So To Speak. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 29 07:53:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA20202; Sat, 29 May 1999 07:52:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 07:52:16 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990529090419.008e3c40 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 09:04:19 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: important details In-Reply-To: <19990529033431046.AAA284 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"VGthM1.0.ax4.Wy_Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27623 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:34 PM 5/28/99 -0400, Michael T Huffman wrote: >In the first run you are using a Thoriated W rod, >which by the photos, looks like quite a lot of it goes missing during the >run. Did you weigh these, and I missed it somewhere? I compared the weight of a different new one to the weight of the used one to determine APPROXIMATELY the weight loss. As it turns out, weight-loss accuracy is probably not important since the combined H2O-dissociation-W- oxidation reaction is not very energetic. >Also, the >incandescence seems to be of quite a large spectrum. Has this been >measured? No. There are two kinds of light coming from the cathode. Depending upon operating power, the cathode gets quite hot, incandescent at high powers. Surely that spectrum is blackbody. Added to that is a purplish glow due to a fine network of sparks all over the cathode surface, presumably jumping across the gas sheath which surrounds it. That spectrum might be interesting. >Third, since the rods have Thorium in them, and you are producing >sparks capable of dissociating H2, which will zip the H right into the rods, >and recombine, sublimating the W among other things at very high local >temps, and doing Bob knows what to the Thorium, did you weigh the apparatus >with and without the rods before the run and after the run No. BTW, the earlier rod cathode runs were made with pure W rods and the present Mizuno-assisted runs are being made with pure W sheet. We tried the thoriated rods on a suggestion from Dennis Cravens. >and did you have >a Geiger counter on it? No, but I've monitored those rods before and they barely register....FAR less than Coleman lantern mantles, for example. >Did you know that a very small amount of Teflon gas >can kill you? I've heard that rumor before. I'd like to hear further substantion of it...seems to me that Teflon would NOT be permitted for stove-top cookware if that were really the case. >Is there some other substance that you could use to insulate >those rods, that would be more inert, like maybe dunking them into molten >glass? Maybe, but Mizuno uses Teflon....must not deviate from the recipe for success. >Last but not least, instead of doing numbers and calling it >calorimetry, have you actually tried to measure the heat at the recombiner? No >It seems that with the numerous fires, explosions, etc. that maybe it's hot >in there. Damn right it's hot in there. You can see the catalyst pellets glowing red hot! That's what ignites the flashbacks. >Also, maybe you could do a two stage recombiner with the second >stage open to the air to allow the oxygen that went missing forming all >those other compounds to be replaced and unite with the left over H2. Use a >second flashback screen, too. And measure the actual heat on that, too. >One more thing :) have you checked or replaced those beads in the >recombiner? With all that stuff in the gas, they may not be working at full >capacity anymore. Good idea. Yes, I usually use new pellets every time. They're relatively cheap. >t's me again. Just a few more suggestions for getting heat out of your >device. If the light that is being produced contains UV (and it wouldn't >surpise me), you should switch the inner container to a quartz glass jar >instead of the borosilicate. This would allow the UV to convert the >"coupling water" in the outer container to H2O2 which would add to the heat >going into the cooling water. My present cell just absorbs the UV and converts it directly to heat, which is measured by the calorimetry. >Also, and I know this >may sound even stranger than the other stuff I've mentioned, but you should >start weighing the caps before and after the runs. The cell cap...by itself? What for? Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 29 07:54:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA20554; Sat, 29 May 1999 07:52:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 07:52:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990529091945.008f4200 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 09:19:45 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Mizuno comments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"zlmm83.0._05.ey_Jt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27624 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dr. Mizuno has commented on my Run 2. He raises 4 points. (1) He warns against using W sheet which cracks during cutting. My sheet has shown some signs of this problem. He is sending me several pieces of his Nilaco W sheet which shows excess heat in his experiment 70% of the time. (2) He advise stirring the electrolyte, apparently DURING electrolysis. Jed, can you find any mention of that in the paper you're working on? (3) Water vapor. He suggests that heat loss via water vapor might be a problem. I sent him the same calculations I posted here recently which show that it can only amount to 0.04 watts. (4) He says that the dark appearance of my cathode after the run is unusual. He says that his cathodes that show excess heat are usually "very brilliant" after the run. This could be a critically important difference. I presently have no idea why mine turned dark. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 29 09:36:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA05671; Sat, 29 May 1999 09:35:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 09:35:33 -0700 Message-ID: <388943385.927995732140.JavaMail.root web06.pub01> Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 12:35:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Goldes To: Frederick Sparber Subject: RE: Re: One for "Stirling" Blanton, The Backhaus-Swift Engine Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: mail.com X-Originating-IP: 207.44.219.164 Resent-Message-ID: <"oMTDF2.0.XO1.LT1Kt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27625 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------Original Message------ From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: May 29, 1999 2:36:02 PM GMT Subject: Re: One for "Stirling" Blanton, The Backhaus-Swift Engine Terry: The Thermoacoustic Engines might do quite well on low-grade CF heat. Vo I spoke to Scott Backhaus, a coinventor of the engine, yesterday. He does not think it would have more than 10% efficiency with low-grade heat and an acoustic power maximum of about 100 watts. Mark Goldes, Magnetic Power Inc. At 120 Decibels (about 2.9E-3 PSI) you can aim the acoustic vibrations at the "Woofers and Tweeters" of your Boom Box and make your power meter run backwards, or at least recharge the batteries. :-) The permanent magnet-voice coil speakers act as a linear power generator. Then again you might feed the output to a F&P cell to set up a positive Thermoacoustic-Electrochemical feedback system that could level Atlanta, again? :-) I have a Sony Boom Box with CD and tape functions that has a Remote (which is why I bought it)so I can switch between it and the Tv without bothering to get up from my easy chair. Perhaps if I shout back at it, I can lower my 500 kw-hr/month electric bill. More Power To You, So To Speak. Regards, Frederick __________________________________________________ FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 29 11:01:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA19997; Sat, 29 May 1999 11:00:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 11:00:49 -0700 Message-ID: <01BEA9C2.35A1D360.bhorst gte.net> From: Bob Horst Reply-To: "bhorst ieee.org" To: "Vortex-L (E-mail)" Subject: Web site for Mallove-Park Cold Fusion Radio Program Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 10:58:38 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 10 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"hRbNt2.0.Nu4.Hj2Kt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27626 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The radio talk show Gene will be on has a web page at: http://www.kpcc.ORG/newstalk/airtalk/home.htm This page also has instructions on how we will be able to order a tape of the show for $15. There is nothing on the site that would suggest a RealAudio feed that would allow us to hear it live. -- Bob Horst From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 29 11:48:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA27602; Sat, 29 May 1999 11:47:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 11:47:04 -0700 Message-ID: <003d01beaa03$0aca3380$4b8f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Coment on the Mizuno Experiment Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 12:41:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"lR_Ve1.0.Cl6.eO3Kt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27627 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If Scott figures in all of the possible Electrochemical/Thermochemical reactions involved in the H2O-K2CO3-W Experiment, there still should be an OU heat output. This should be due to an Electron-Proton Collision (or Electron-Deuteron Collision)if the Proton/Deuterons ratio is such that at one Deuteron/6700 Protons there are about 1.0E19 Deuterium atoms/Gram H2O. Also, there should be Deuterium Enrichment at the Cathode since the Hydrogen Off-Gas runs about 8:1 H/D. If the Resonance Point for the Electron-Proton and/or the Electron-Deuteron Collisions is maximized (0.07 to 1.0 ev) it should create Quasi-Neutrons-DiNeutrons and/or Hydrinos etc., that can do the CF thing with the Tungsten. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 29 15:46:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA30872; Sat, 29 May 1999 15:43:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 15:43:11 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 14:45:49 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: H-/D- & M+ Ions From Alkali Hydrides Resent-Message-ID: <"HqeDJ1.0.DY7._r6Kt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27628 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 7:49 PM 5/26/99, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >On Tue, 25 May 1999 07:13:35 -0800, Horace Heffner wrote: >[snip] >>In that case 40K is a very strange isotope then? At least compared to the >>principle isotope 39K (natural abundance 93.2581 percent) which does not >>capture electrons. Also, 41K (natural abundance 6.7302 percent) does not >>capture electrons. They all have the same number of protons. > >When I said "overburdened with protons" you may read it also as "light >on neutrons". Isotopes that are close to the line of stability can >sometimes go either way (EC or beta- emission). >Note that in the case of K40 about 89% of the decays are beta- decays. >This is a reflection of the fact that it is heavier in neutrons than >K39. >However EC also sometimes happens by chance in this case, because it is >allowed energetically. Thus 40K is stll an interesting isotope then? At least compared to the principle isotope 39K (natural abundance 93.2581 percent) which does not capture electrons. Also, 41K (natural abundance 6.7302 percent) does not capture electrons. They all have the same number of protons. If the "light on neutrons" theory applies then why does isn't 39K more prone to capture an electron? It is even lighter on neutrons than 40K, which does capture neutrons. My main point, however, is that 40K has special properties with regard to electron capture, a special ability to do weak force magic. > >> >>"Exothermic" is an interesting term, because if mass is conserved, energy >>must be conserved also in both candidates (1) and (2) above, if you count >>the mass of emitted photons as mass. > > >Which is why it is currently called the law of conservation of >mass/energy, rather than two separate laws as it used to be. Pity. The conservation of mass/energy is a much weaker law than the two separate laws standing on their own. The separate laws are more difficult to verify, and depend alos on the definitions of mass and energy. Still, I think information has been lost by the definitions in place, and use of a combined law. I suppose one could argue that failing to distinguish between mass and energy dilutes the need for and utility of two have words for two superficially different things. But then there is a cost in lost information and simplicity. > >IMO an exothermic reaction might be classified (or defined if you will), >as a reaction in which potential energy is converted into kinetic energy >(which may be the kinetic energy of photons). >The real question is what is the nature of potential energy? >[snip] >>One wild-eyed possibility is that a highly excited [anti-neutrino, >>electron] or even [W-, electron] might be emitted from a 40K nucleus? In >>other words, if the electron has a bit too much intial energy E1 to be >>captured, perhaps it can escape in an excited, but low half-life >>intermediate state, to later combine with a proton. > >Since EC usually refers to capture of electrons already bound to the >atom, and which therefore have predetermined energies, I will assume you >are adding to the definition. I.e. electrons "fired" at the atom, such >that they can acquire "too much initial energy". Well, I was referring to electrons not in orbitals, free electrons, but not very energetic electrons by particle accelerator standards, a couple thousand volts or so. >If you are correct, then such reactions should show up in particle >experiments carried out with electron accelerators. Not if the reaction utilizes a low energy bond of some kind. A high energy electron may not be capable of making the required bond. (Keep in mind this was originally only wild speculation for the purpose of stimulating thought.) > >> >>One problem with this scenario is then what happens to the nucleus left >>behind! There is an energy balance problem. > >Not if an accelerator is used. If increased lifetimes of weak force meditating W particles is at stake, then enormous energy borrowing is occurring. In fact, this enormous energy borrowing, the mass of 85 protons, is achieved normally, just to carry off electron capture. The isotope K40, when stimulated by an electron, has the very special machinery to pull this off, if but briefly, and with low cross section. There is also a possible conservation of charge problem to work out. In looking at this further, it seems likely there should be a W+ particle involved (thus positron emitters would be better catalysts, but K40 still fills the bill.) Suppose an up quark emits a W+, becomming a down quark. There is thus a proton converted to a neutron. However, the W+ can quickly decay into a positron and neutrino. If somehow (and here is the miracle) the incident electron and W+ could become involved in a clock slowing entanglement, or the positron and electron similarly strongly bound, but in a stable configuration until long after exiting the atom, the exit is pulled off without losing the coulomb well energy gained by the incident electron on its way into the nucleus. This excess energy could be used by the entangled (and neutral) complex to enter and pull off a reaction in another nearby nucleus. One problem with this idea is that electron-positron annihilation, occuring in the most likely event of no contact with a foreign nucleus, would be readily detecteable. If the massive [W+,e-] complex could miraculously preserved, it would act like a super heavy muon, capable of quickly fusing D2 molecules into He atoms. There too, the signature would be seen. Too many miracles to pull off - high cross section, long life, no/low resulting signature. You are right, the single miracle of electron suborbitals is easier to believe. It is also easier to fall far. It would be nice to see very widely replicated proof. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 29 17:09:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA10106; Sat, 29 May 1999 17:08:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 17:08:37 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: H-/D- & M+ Ions From Alkali Hydrides Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 00:08:03 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <37507e28.431249699 mail-hub> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA10087 Resent-Message-ID: <"amXOx2.0.qT2.568Kt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27629 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 29 May 1999 14:45:49 -0800, Horace Heffner wrote: [snip] >>However EC also sometimes happens by chance in this case, because it is >>allowed energetically. > > >Thus 40K is stll an interesting isotope then? At least compared to the >principle isotope 39K (natural abundance 93.2581 percent) which does not >capture electrons. Also, 41K (natural abundance 6.7302 percent) does not >capture electrons. They all have the same number of protons. If the [snip] I suspect that the K40 EC reaction is allowed, because of the exceptional stability of Ar40 compared to Ar39 and Ar41. There is about 2 MeV difference in binding energy compared with both neighbours, because Ar40 is even-even. K39 would have to go to Ar39, and K41 would have to go to Ar41. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 29 17:36:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA16083; Sat, 29 May 1999 17:35:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 17:35:05 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: important details Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 20:39:03 -0400 Message-ID: <19990530003903734.AAA82 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"I6CPO2.0.Dx3.uU8Kt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27630 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >At 11:34 PM 5/28/99 -0400, Michael T Huffman wrote: > >>In the first run you are using a Thoriated W rod, >>which by the photos, looks like quite a lot of it goes missing during the >>run. Did you weigh these, and I missed it somewhere? > >I compared the weight of a different new one to the weight of the used one >to determine APPROXIMATELY the weight loss. As it turns out, weight-loss >accuracy is probably not important since the combined H2O-dissociation-W- >oxidation reaction is not very energetic. That's all textbook stuff that is based on your assumed reaction mechanism. You don't know where all the material ended up, nor do know what the material transfer mechanism was, nor do you know what the actual reactions were, nor do you know how much heat they produced. You just made an arbitrary assignment of meaning to the data which comes from only a small part of the entire setup. It's exactly what you are not supposed to do. > >>Also, the >>incandescence seems to be of quite a large spectrum. Has this been >>measured? > >No. There are two kinds of light coming from the cathode. Depending upon >operating power, the cathode gets quite hot, incandescent at high powers. >Surely that spectrum is blackbody. Added to that is a purplish glow due to >a fine network of sparks all over the cathode surface, presumably jumping >across the gas sheath which surrounds it. That spectrum might be interesting. > >>Third, since the rods have Thorium in them, and you are producing >>sparks capable of dissociating H2, which will zip the H right into the rods, >>and recombine, sublimating the W among other things at very high local >>temps, and doing Bob knows what to the Thorium, did you weigh the apparatus >>with and without the rods before the run and after the run > >No. BTW, the earlier rod cathode runs were made with pure W rods and the >present Mizuno-assisted runs are being made with pure W sheet. We tried >the thoriated rods on a suggestion from Dennis Cravens. I remember reading that. I like the rods better than the sheet, because the hydrodynamics of the electrolite flow can be more easily manipulated, and the pure W rods reduce the amount of speculation as to the mechanisms, but this is something that you can easily play around with by substitution, and you will do that, I'm sure. The Thoriated rods are fine too, and may improve the effect a lot, you'll find whatever works the best, eventually. They are probably a lot cheaper, and more readily available - always a plus in my book;) > >>and did you have >>a Geiger counter on it? > >No, but I've monitored those rods before and they barely register....FAR >less than Coleman lantern mantles, for example. This is kind of frightening, and believe me, I've done this sort of thing myself, and made myself horribly ill in the process. The illogic of it is almost overwhelming when you think about it. Here we are, experimentors of nuclear phenomena, we have Geiger counters, cloud chambers, neutron detectors, parafin blocks, electrical and atomic shielding, and what have you, most of it cheap, readily available, and even sitting in our own labs. We use radioactive materials in our experiments. We go to great lengths and expense to design an apparatus that, hopefully, will produce a nuclear reaction, and then we don't use the detection and safety equipment while we are running the crazy thing. We stand with our noses right next to it for hours on end while the experiment runs. If we really thought that a reaction was even remotely possible, we should at least be coating ourselves with BBQ sauce and rotating once in a while, if we aren't going to use the detection and safety stuff that is sitting on our shelves. We're suppose to be intelligent people. What is it, do you think, that makes us do stuff like that? Another consideration that may be happening, is that you may be remediating the Thorium and just not realizing it. Either way, you can't determine anything without instrumentation. > >>Did you know that a very small amount of Teflon gas >>can kill you? > >I've heard that rumor before. I'd like to hear further substantion of >it...seems to me that Teflon would NOT be permitted for stove-top cookware >if that were really the case. I forget where I picked this up, but I should probably chase it down to get the exact numbers. As I recall, the material (Teflon) doesn't start to decompose and react with stuff until it reaches temps of around 1500C, which is far above MOST situations that you will encounter in the kitchen while getting your eggs to solidify, however, in industrial situations where you are welding, for example, temps such as these are common. I believe, and again this is from hazy memory, that Teflon will emit cyanide compounds when burned. Cyanide compounds are quite common in plastics, foams, and other polymers, and are a significant biohazard in landfills. Styrofoam, for example, when used as a cheap insulator in the construction of buildings and boats, breaks down even more readily than Teflon in a fire, and is what usually gets the inhabitants, and would-be rescuers. Today's firefighters won't go near a building without airtanks and a mask. No welder will weld on steel that has foam on the other side of it. I've gotten some pretty good whiffs of it myself, and it's poison. I'll keep an eye out for any real data on Teflon, and pass it along when I find it. I've seen it before, it's around. It's just one of those things that aren't advertised. Anyway, it's the H H recombination that produces the really high temps. If you want to sublimate W, that's the ticket. > >>Is there some other substance that you could use to insulate >>those rods, that would be more inert, like maybe dunking them into molten >>glass? > >Maybe, but Mizuno uses Teflon....must not deviate from the recipe for success. Well, since you don't really know what Mizuno's exact set up is, or his protocol for that matter, you really don't have to worry about following any recipe. Besides, Mizuno is only now clueing in to just some of the things that the BG guys have known for years. Mizuno doesn't know everything yet, either, from what I have seen so far. Recipes are for burger flippers at MacDonalds, anyway, whereas you are an experimentor. D V 8, it's an imperative! Improvise, synthesize what you know works, and apply it to the cell. Make it work! > >>Last but not least, instead of doing numbers and calling it >>calorimetry, have you actually tried to measure the heat at the recombiner? > >No > >>It seems that with the numerous fires, explosions, etc. that maybe it's hot >>in there. > >Damn right it's hot in there. You can see the catalyst pellets glowing red >hot! That's what ignites the flashbacks. Kinda makes ya wiggly all over don't it? Aren't you just a might curious as to exactly how hot it might be in there? I know I sure am;) > >>Also, maybe you could do a two stage recombiner with the second >>stage open to the air to allow the oxygen that went missing forming all >>those other compounds to be replaced and unite with the left over H2. Use a >>second flashback screen, too. And measure the actual heat on that, too. >>One more thing :) have you checked or replaced those beads in the >>recombiner? With all that stuff in the gas, they may not be working at full >>capacity anymore. > >Good idea. Yes, I usually use new pellets every time. They're relatively >cheap. Actually, there are five ideas there, all of them good;) > >>t's me again. Just a few more suggestions for getting heat out of your >>device. If the light that is being produced contains UV (and it wouldn't >>surpise me), you should switch the inner container to a quartz glass jar >>instead of the borosilicate. This would allow the UV to convert the >>"coupling water" in the outer container to H2O2 which would add to the heat >>going into the cooling water. > >My present cell just absorbs the UV and converts it directly to heat, which >is measured by the calorimetry. I know, and that would be an ordinary thing to do, but you want to do extraordinary things, I think. I don't know exactly what it is about UV light and quartz glass. Maybe it's the quartz..., and the light..., and the glass 8^) Did you ever make a quartz crystal radio when you were a kid? Not one of those diode kinds, but a real quartz crystal one with a cat's whisker and everything. My Dad gave me one for Christmas when I was about five, I think. I used to spend hours fiddling with that thing around to get stations. It seemed to work best when the cat's whisker was on a fracture in the crystal matrix. Later I learned about the piezoelectric effect, material matrices, grain boundaries, eddy currents, crystal doping, quantum tunnelling, and so on and so on. Dr. Peter Gleuck just sent me an excellent paper on cavitation that tells briefly about some experiments performed to enhance the processing of quartz into ever more smaller particles or nanoparticles for the glass industry. He got it from: www.aiche.org I read the paper, but I haven't been to the site yet. It's from: Chemical Engineering Progress May 1999. You might want to check it out. Perhaps the quartz particles are picking up outside EM waves and pumping electrons into the surrounding glass matrix capacitatively. Perhaps they are setting up randomly shaped eddy current flows in the glass which affect what goes on in the cell's overall electro-chemical process. Perhaps because of the geometry of the cell, they are not so random. Perhaps the UV light encourages or allows pathways for proton movement and electron exchanges. Perhaps the smaller the quartz particle, the smaller the wavelength it will respond to, maybe making it respond to wavelength sizes that permeate most other materials. A ZPE pump. I don't know, but I think you should try it. I haven't checked the prices for a jar your size, but it couldn't be too expensive. Under $20 is my guess. A jar that has both dielectric properties and many electrical properties simultaneously could keep guys like us scratching our heads for years. Try it and see what happens, and we can figure it out later ;) One thing that I do know, however, is that quartz glass allows a broader spectrum of light to escape the cell, as well as, enter the cell. This UV and soft X ray light would definitely cause chemical reactions to occur in the coupling water which would create more heat. Heat that would not occur if you merely allowed the light to be absorbed by the borosilicate. I know this because I used to use the creation of H2O2 in distilled, aireated water as an indication of the amount of cavitation that was occurring in my own experiments. Ken Suslick, I recently learned, uses an iodine/water solution which oxidizes more readily when cavitated as an indication of cavitation density. It's not the cavitation itself that creates that particular chemical reaction. It's the UV light that cavitation creates, that causes it. Irregardless of what you use, just the coupling water or an iodine solution, that part of the calorimeter is open to the air which will allow for a continuous replacement of the oxygen, and you are missing an opportunity to create heat by not employing it. Some may say that this chemical reaction may be considered cheating, but it does make for more heat. If this is what Mizuno is doing, then this is how he is doing it, and it would explain at least to some degree where his numbers came from, and why they differ so much from yours;) Your use of a Pyrex flask in your sonoluminescence experiments instead of quartz glass were why they failed. You can't see UV light through Pyrex. It's that simple. There is also no piezo effect happening in the glass which may be a contributing factor to the success of those sonic type cavitation experiments, as well. It's too bad Hiller's webpage was taken down. It had an excellent experimental setup that differed from yours in a number of critical ways. Anybody know why they took that down? It was the most lucent explanation of that protocol that I had seen at the time. Is Hiller still around, BTW? His webpage was up for a long time, and then was just gone one day. I didn't spend a great deal of time looking, but I could no longer find him listed in the faculty directory, either. Anybody know what happened to him? He was working with Putterman and Barber. > >>Also, and I know this >>may sound even stranger than the other stuff I've mentioned, but you should >>start weighing the caps before and after the runs. > >The cell cap...by itself? What for? Not the cell caps, the filter caps in your power supply. I've been seeing reports in arc experiments that the caps burn out after a while. Gary Hawkins did some outrageous HV arc experiments with caps the size of small refrigerators, where he was putting coins into the arc path and shrinking them. One of the interesting things was that, even with the bi-metal sandwich coins, the shrinkage was so uniform that you could clearly read the lettering and so forth on the coin, even after it had been shrunk down to the size of a pea. Little or no distortion, and no eating away of the materials like you would expect from a huge arc like that, just uniform shrinkage. No smoke or evidence of the material splattered onto the electrodes, either. Just material that was uniformly GONE from the inside and out. Wild, eh? Those Seattle boys... Then his caps burned up, and I think that the missing coin material may have ended up in there, in the dielectric. Kind of like an electronic transfer of funds, if you will. I've read other reports to that effect as well. It's a bit more esoteric, but not really out of the ball park in a set up like yours, if you think about it. Sublimation of Tungsten is a completely different animal, of course, but proton transport may be occurring to enough of a degree that eventually your caps might fail. Being aware of it before hand would allow you to weigh them before and after failure to see if there is any difference over time. A weight gain would be indicative that there is more stuff in them than what you started out with. You could be checking for that, and making measurements. I noticed in your report that the addition of the filter caps increased or enhanced the overall incandescence effect. There could be a correlation there. I don't know. Jed just recently suggested that you also stir the electrolite. The BG guys found out a long time ago that gas evolution was greatly enhanced by getting the bubbles that form on the electrode plates away from the plates. It may be removing the oxygen from the water vapor in the bubbles, and might decrease the amount of oxidizing of the cathode which is what is turning it black, along with the burnt Teflon deposits. There are a number of ways to stir the electrolyte, you can physically vibrate it from below, use pulsed sonic stimulation from a transducer, or magnetically stir it from below. All of these would require additional power input to the system. If you tried the two ring magnet configuration inside the cell like the magnetron configuration that I suggested earlier, that might suffice, and without adding to the overall power consumption. You would have to use a magnetic material that had a curie temp that was high enough for that cell, while retaining enough Gauss strength to provide enough motive force to the electrons. If that didn't work, you could build a cell cap that allowed the wiring and gas ports to enter from the side of the cap, and put the magnets above the cell and below it to insulate it from the heat. The magnetic fields would still penetrate the cell, but would be insulated from the heat Or you could just tap the whole business with your fingers once in a while, and watch the gas evolution rate response. You've definitely got a little OU heater there to play with, you just need to know how to really get it cooking, and then measure everything. Got any good recipes for BBQ sauce, BTW? Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat May 29 19:48:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA10072; Sat, 29 May 1999 19:47:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 19:47:18 -0700 Message-ID: <006701beaa46$20561e60$4b8f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Prediction of the Light Lepton Pair Production Temperature/Energy Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 20:41:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"l53cd3.0.IT2.sQAKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27631 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For your Full Moon "Inverted Logic" contemplation, Robin. :-) Energy of the Electron = kq/(Radius of the Electron) = 1.44E-9/2.81E-15 = 0.511E6 ev. Energy of the Electron*Alpha^2 = kq/(Bohr Radius) = 1.44E-9/5.29E-11 = 27.2 ev. Energy of the Electron*Alpha^3 = kq/(137*Bohr Radius) = 1.44E-9/7.2575E-9 = 0.198 ev. Thus the Electron-Proton or Electron-Deuteron collision energy for creating a Light Lepton or Neutrino-AntiNeutrino Pair (in situ) is 2*0.198 ev = 0.397 ev minimum or a collision comparable to 0.397*11,600 ~= 4,600 degrees Kelvin. Predicted "Resonance Energy" for a sustained Hot Fusion reaction: 2* Electron mass/energy*Alpha = 7,458 ev ~= 86.5 Million Degrees Kelvin With a surface temperature of about 6,000 Kelvin and a core temperature of about 20 million Kelvin, The Sun is Too Hot for Cold Fusion and Too Cold for Hot Fusion so it just labors away at on "Boltzmann's Tail" at about a microwatt/cm^3 or 0.14 milliwatts/kg like the Tokamaks. :-) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 03:40:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA25874; Sun, 30 May 1999 03:39:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 03:39:36 -0700 Message-ID: <007701beaa88$1a68c2e0$4b8f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Possible Potassium Catalysis Mechanism in CF Reactions Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 04:34:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"fJ2Na1.0.7K6.eLHKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27632 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bond Energies (ev) Ion Energies (ev) H-H 4.5265 13.595 K-K 0.5950 4.341 H-K 1.8128 ----- 1, H-H + K-K + E -----> 2 H-K -4.5265 - 0.595 + E = 2(-1.8128) E = 1.500 ev 2, H-K <----> K+ + H- 3, K+ + H-H <---> H-K + H+ 4, H- <----> H + e- 5, H+ + e- (Collision) -----> Quasineutron or "Hydrino" (0H1) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 06:39:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA15580; Sun, 30 May 1999 06:38:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 06:38:38 -0700 Message-ID: <009401beaaa1$1c2fbde0$4b8f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Comment on Incandescent Tungsten Experiment Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 07:33:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"OLkTU1.0.Mp3.TzJKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27633 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott: Pure Tungsten Temperature (K) Resistivity (ohm-meters) Emission (amp/meter^2 2250 6.5E-7 300 Thoriated Tungsten 1500 ~ 4.5E7 300 Seems to me that running a current through the W cathode would be just as effective as trying to heat it to incandescent temperatures in the discharge. Using both ohmic and discharge heating to get the electrons off the cathode might prove interesting. As I see it, availability of Free Electrons to interact with the H+ or D+ ions is necessary for getting the OU/LENR Effects. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 06:52:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA17038; Sun, 30 May 1999 06:49:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 06:49:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990530085337.008f87a0 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 08:53:37 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: important details In-Reply-To: <19990530003903734.AAA82 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"IE8p83.0.4A4.m7KKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27634 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:39 PM 5/29/99 -0400, Michael T Huffman wrote: >That's all textbook stuff that is based on your assumed reaction mechanism. >You don't know where all the material ended up, nor do know what the >material transfer mechanism was, nor do you know what the actual reactions >were, nor do you know how much heat they produced. You just made an >arbitrary assignment of meaning to the data which comes from only a small >part of the entire setup. It's exactly what you are not supposed to do. It's not quite that bad, Knuke. I did confirm that, during erosion of the W electrode, excess hydrogen gas (above the amount being generated by the electrolysis) was coming off the cell. The only source for this excess hydrogen in the cell is H2O. That leaves the O in the cell....it did not come off in the gas stream. The only oxidizable material in the cell is the W cathode....and it was being eroded away, producing a whitish precip. on the bottom of the cell. I assumed that precip was some W compound containing the missing O. I looked at the heat of formation of several of the W compounds that could be formed. They are all similar to WO3 so I used that one. >>No, but I've monitored those rods before and they barely register....FAR >>less than Coleman lantern mantles, for example. > >This is kind of frightening, and believe me, I've done this sort of thing >myself, and made myself horribly ill in the process. The illogic of it is >almost overwhelming when you think about it. Here we are, experimentors of >nuclear phenomena, we have Geiger counters.... I must have forgotten to mention that I have monitored the cell during incandescence with a very sensitive NaI gamma scintillator, looking specifially for the gamma emission that Mizuno-Ohmori observed and that I saw absolutely nothing. >Well, since you don't really know what Mizuno's exact set up is, or his >protocol for that matter, you really don't have to worry about following any >recipe. Besides, Mizuno is only now clueing in to just some of the things >that the BG guys have known for years. Mizuno doesn't know everything yet, >either, from what I have seen so far. Recipes are for burger flippers at >MacDonalds, anyway, whereas you are an experimentor. D V 8, it's an >imperative! Improvise, synthesize what you know works, and apply it to the >cell. Make it work! Thanks for the pep talk but I am going to doggedly pursue precise replication of the experiment until I see at least a detectable sign of the excess heat signal. Mizuno gets 250% excess...surely I can see 10-20% in my cell. THEN...you can rest assured...I will begin experimenting with the effect! >Kinda makes ya wiggly all over don't it? Aren't you just a might curious as >to exactly how hot it might be in there? I know I sure am;) I'm not curious because I have demonstrated that, during ordinary elecrolysis when the cathode is not being digested rapidly, the exiting gas stream is completely consumed by the recombiner..i.e. nothing is left over. The gas flow rate matches closely the expected flow rate due to the electrolysis current (plus a few percent for water vapor). So there is nothing to suggest that the heat energy released in the recombiner is anything other than exactly what you would expect from the combustion of that much hydrogen and oxygen. >you should try it. I haven't checked the prices for a jar your size, but it >couldn't be too expensive. Under $20 is my guess. I want one of these quartz jars. Do you know where to get one? >Your use of a Pyrex flask in your sonoluminescence experiments instead of >quartz glass were why they failed. You can't see UV light through Pyrex. Our SL experiments didn't fail....they were just difficult. However, we did see the faint blue dot on several occasions. Blue light apparently does get thru Pyrex. >Not the cell caps, the filter caps in your power supply. Wow. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 06:57:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA18701; Sun, 30 May 1999 06:56:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 06:56:40 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990530090045.00904a60 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 09:00:45 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Comment on Incandescent Tungsten Experiment In-Reply-To: <009401beaaa1$1c2fbde0$4b8f85ce default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"DeXmu2.0.7a4.OEKKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27635 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:33 AM 5/30/99 -0600, Frederick Sparber wrote: >Pure Tungsten >Temp (K) Resistivity Emission > >2250 6.5E-7 300 > Thoriated Tungsten > >1500 ~ 4.5E7 300 > >Seems to me that running a current through the W cathode would be just as >effective as trying to heat it to incandescent temperatures in the >discharge. Sounds like a melding of Mizuno's experiment and Blacklight Power's experiment. Run a heavy W filament in the electrolyte and then bias it w.r.t the Pt anode. Like I told Knuke, just give me ONE robust experiment which exhibits the excess heat effect and I'll be off and running. However, until then it seems like my best course is to attempt replication of experiments conducted by reputable investigators who apparently are seeing the excess heat effect. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 07:31:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA24116; Sun, 30 May 1999 07:30:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 07:30:40 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990530102651.00733d70 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 10:26:51 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Comment on Incandescent Tungsten Experiment In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990530090045.00904a60 mail.eden.com> References: <009401beaaa1$1c2fbde0$4b8f85ce default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"JMSH_1.0.gu5.GkKKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27636 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:00 AM 5/30/99 -0500, Scott Little wrote: > >Like I told Knuke, just give me ONE robust experiment which exhibits the >excess heat effect and I'll be off and running. However, until then it >seems like my best course is to attempt replication of experiments >conducted by reputable investigators who apparently are seeing the excess >heat effect. Pd/D2O and Ni/H2O and reportedly acoustic and gas techniques are all robust. If you seriouslt conduct science, which takes experimenters in the field some scores to hundreds of experiments, and if you go back and examine where you failed on each of your limited trials, the likelihood of success ought improve. Best wishes. Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 07:34:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA25083; Sun, 30 May 1999 07:31:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 07:31:25 -0700 Message-ID: <002101beaaa8$f26cd940$155accd1 default> From: "Mike Carrell" To: Subject: Re: important details Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 10:27:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"H9z8X2.0.r76.ykKKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27637 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>At 11:34 PM 5/28/99 -0400, Michael T Huffman wrote: >>>Did you know that a very small amount of Teflon gas >>>can kill you? >> >>I've heard that rumor before. I'd like to hear further substantion of >>it...seems to me that Teflon would NOT be permitted for stove-top cookware >>if that were really the case. > >I forget where I picked this up, but I should probably chase it down to get >the exact numbers. As I recall, the material (Teflon) doesn't start to >decompose and react with stuff until it reaches temps of around 1500C, which >is far above MOST situations that you will encounter in the kitchen while >getting your eggs to solidify, however, in industrial situations where you >are welding, for example, temps such as these are common. I believe, and >again this is from hazy memory, that Teflon will emit cyanide compounds when >burned. Teflon is basically CF4 with variations. It is exceptionally stable, invented during the Manhattan project for gaskets to contain uranium hexafluoride gas used in the diffusion concentration plants. Fluorine gas released during decomposition is quite nasty and the chemists who worked with it to develop Teflon showed considerable courage in working with such a lethal element. Cyanide compounds are quite common in plastics, foams, and other >polymers, and are a significant biohazard in landfills. Cyanide is a decomposition product of urethane plastics, which are common in upolstery cushions and the like. It has been used for blown-in house insulation because of its foaming properties. Urethanes are widely used because their properties are easily modified over a wide range from rigid to conforming. Styrofoam, for >example, when used as a cheap insulator in the construction of buildings and >boats, breaks down even more readily than Teflon in a fire, and is what >usually gets the inhabitants, and would-be rescuers. I doubt this, but bonafide chemists can check me. Styrene is a much simpler molecule than urethanes and makes nice insulation and coffee cups. It does not have the toxicity of urethanes. It burns furiously. I have seen simple additives which can make styrofoam fireproof by generation a foam which becomes carbonaceous and an insulator which does not burn. Today's firefighters >won't go near a building without airtanks and a mask. No welder will weld >on steel that has foam on the other side of it. I've gotten some pretty >good whiffs of it myself, and it's poison. Because urethane foams are common. Burning urethanes kill people very fast. > >I know, and that would be an ordinary thing to do, but you want to do >extraordinary things, I think. I don't know exactly what it is about UV >light and quartz glass. Maybe it's the quartz..., and the light..., and the >glass 8^) Did you ever make a quartz crystal radio when you were a kid? >Not one of those diode kinds, but a real quartz crystal one with a cat's >whisker and everything. My Dad gave me one for Christmas when I was about >five, I think. I used to spend hours fiddling with that thing around to get >stations. If it were a quartz crystal radio you would fiddle forever and receive nothing. The material is the mineral galena, a form of lead sulfide which had random active sites that functioned as rectifier junctions when probed with the point contact cat's whisker. It is a true "diode kind". Point contact diodes using purified, moncrystaline germanium were key elements in radar technology as detectors. Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 09:03:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA06848; Sun, 30 May 1999 09:02:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 09:02:53 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <5d2e5b2.2482badd aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 12:01:33 EDT Subject: PLEC: anode/cathode ratio, cell temperature To: vortex-L eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"aITR53.0.wg1.j4MKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27639 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In message Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:34:21 -0500, Scott Little wrote that he was just following Mizuno's instructions in configuring the EarthTech cell anode and cathode, and that Mizuno used an anode to cathode ratio of 100 to 1. In the same message, Scott also wrote that for an anode, Mizuno uses a single sheet of Pt mesh that is 5 cm x 10 cm which wraps around the cathode. It seems to me that the surface area of the wires in Mizuno's mesh anode is likely to be a lot less than 100 times the surface area of the rectangular plate cathode. I'm not a plasma physicist, but it's hard to believe that so great a difference in the configuration of anode and cathode would have only a small effect on the plasma created between them. Apparently, Mizuno didn't object. I infer from this that Mizuno thinks that any plasma will do, so long as it creates a cell temperature over 80 degrees C (70 degrees C?), and doesn't think that the plasma is where the excess heat is produced. Scott, did Mizuno tell you that anything over 70 degrees C was ok for cell temperature? He seems to have told Jed that one has to get over 80 degrees C. Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 09:05:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA06369; Sun, 30 May 1999 09:02:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 09:02:25 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <3bf5e153.2482badb aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 12:01:31 EDT Subject: PLEC for Plasma Electrolysis Cell? To: vortex-L eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"Uf8052.0.NZ1.H4MKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27638 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In the interest of shortening the main title of threads, a la Scott's shortening of the title for Vince's thread, how about adopting PLEC for the Ohmori-type Plasma Electrolysis Cell? One might use OPEC, but that's been taken. And if we use PEC, the skeptics will call us all a bunch of PECers. Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 09:21:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA10885; Sun, 30 May 1999 09:19:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 09:19:12 -0700 From: BriggsRO aol.com Message-ID: <15a123fe.2482beca aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 12:18:18 EDT Subject: Re: Comment on Incandescent Tungsten Experiment To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Resent-Message-ID: <"LP9E91.0._f2.0KMKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27640 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Scott, I wonder why it is so difficult for many vortices to understand the difference between trying to duplicate Mizunos successful experiment and groping through the limitless world of science and technology to invent a different system. You have identified secondary effects found them trivial compared with the ~ 100/250 watt ratio you are trying to duplicate. You are communicating with Mizuno to try to make your system as close to an exact duplicate of his as possible. These seem to be correct steps toward your goal. I don't think you have overlooked anything that would mask the O.U. production if you are getting results like Mizunos. I have only one additional suggestion. If, after trying Mizuno's cathode and all of his suggestions, you can't duplicate his results, my suggestion for the next step would be to accept his invitation to pay him a visit and try to understand what he is doing differently from you by a first hand look at his system. Maybe if you could show him your system, he could spot the important differences. I know that if Mizuno or any one else can get that result with that system, you can duplicate it. I know that you know there is no payoff to scattering your shots. Bob From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 13:30:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26369; Sun, 30 May 1999 13:27:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 13:27:42 -0700 Message-ID: <000501beaada$40a37840$cd8f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Water Over Mercury-Pool Discharge Experiment Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 14:22:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"WX2uD1.0.xR6.-yPKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27641 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex While Scott is chasing the Mizuno Incandescent Tungsten Oxidizer; that's (MITO) Mr. Stolper (damn expensive WOx :-), a 1 inch steel pipe nipple with a cap on the bottom, add about 3 milliliters of mercury, then about a 2 inch depth of H2O or D2O, capped off with about an inch of 10W-30 motor oil. Pick up a 3/8 inch carbon/graphite welding rod for about 50 cents, and press a Teflon bushing about 1.5 inches long, sized for a slip fit in the pipe over this carbon rod, Anode. Hook it to a D.C. power supply capable of 5 to 10 amperes at about 24 volts, and make contact with the Hg pool and draw an arc, then lock the piston/anode assembly at that height. Make sure that there are no Hg vapors (or EPA Sleuths)to get you. When you think you've got OU, contact someone who can duplicate your protocol. WITH SAFETY DISCLAIMER! Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 13:34:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA28206; Sun, 30 May 1999 13:34:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 13:34:14 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: important details Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 16:38:34 -0400 Message-ID: <19990530203834859.AAA165 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"QPZ7h.0.Zu6.53QKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27642 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gnorts, Here's an interesting page on quartz glassware put up by some fly-by-night outfit. I've never heard of them. There is also an interesting article on the site about something called the Glass Harmonica or the "angelic organ". http://www.finkenbeiner.com/ Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 13:43:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31020; Sun, 30 May 1999 13:42:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 13:42:16 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Water Over Mercury-Pool Discharge Experiment Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 16:46:37 -0400 Message-ID: <19990530204637390.AAA65 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"X5YoI1.0.Wa7.eAQKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27643 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred wrote: >Pick up a 3/8 inch carbon/graphite welding rod for about 50 cents, and press >a Teflon bushing about 1.5 inches long, sized for a slip fit in the pipe >over this carbon rod, Anode. > >Hook it to a D.C. power supply capable of 5 to 10 amperes at about 24 >volts, and make contact with the Hg pool and draw an arc, then lock the >piston/anode assembly at that height. Make sure that there are no Hg vapors >(or EPA Sleuths)to get you. I've read that you can do something similar to this with cavitation as well. Infuse D2 gas into Hg, and cavitate. Various other combinations have been experimented with as well, H2 and D2 gasses combined, D2 and Tritium, and so on. Fusion is the result. It's pretty easy. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 14:15:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04629; Sun, 30 May 1999 14:14:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 14:14:15 -0700 Message-ID: <001901beaae0$c1bc6c60$cd8f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <19990530204637390.AAA65 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Subject: Re: Water Over Mercury-Pool Discharge Experiment Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 15:09:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"kWGLE2.0.A81.deQKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27644 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael T Huffman To: Sent: Sunday, May 30, 1999 2:46 PM Subject: Re: Water Over Mercury-Pool Discharge Experiment Good Deal, Knuke. Now then, can one make up a solenoid using 10 Gage Magnet wire hooked in series with the anode current so that it will pick up the anode after it makes contact with the mercury pool if you use an iron rod attached to the carbon anode? Or will it oscillate? :-) Regards, Frederick > Fred wrote: > >Pick up a 3/8 inch carbon/graphite welding rod for about 50 cents, and press > >a Teflon bushing about 1.5 inches long, sized for a slip fit in the pipe > >over this carbon rod, Anode. > > > >Hook it to a D.C. power supply capable of 5 to 10 amperes at about 24 > >volts, and make contact with the Hg pool and draw an arc, then lock the > >piston/anode assembly at that height. Make sure that there are no Hg vapors > >(or EPA Sleuths)to get you. > > I've read that you can do something similar to this with cavitation as well. > Infuse D2 gas into Hg, and cavitate. Various other combinations have been > experimented with as well, H2 and D2 gasses combined, D2 and Tritium, and so > on. Fusion is the result. It's pretty easy. > > Knuke > > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > Lady Lake, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 14:21:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA06261; Sun, 30 May 1999 14:20:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 14:20:06 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Water Over Mercury-Pool Discharge Experiment Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 17:24:19 -0400 Message-ID: <19990530212419234.AAA258 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"GZJWU3.0.fX1.5kQKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27645 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred wrote: >Good Deal, Knuke. > >Now then, can one make up a solenoid using 10 Gage Magnet wire hooked in >series with the anode current so that it will pick up the anode after it >makes contact with the mercury pool if you use an iron rod attached to the >carbon anode? Or will it oscillate? :-) > >Regards, Frederick Well Fred, if it behaves anything like a mercury vapor switch, you'd have to pull that anode pretty far up to get the circuit to break :-) I don't mess with Hg, myself, that stuff will make you WACKO! Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 15:04:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA16782; Sun, 30 May 1999 15:03:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 15:03:18 -0700 Message-ID: <002501beaae7$99e15000$cd8f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <19990530212419234.AAA258 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Subject: Re: Water Over Mercury-Pool Discharge Experiment Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 15:58:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"RCurJ.0.864.cMRKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27646 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael T Huffman To: Sent: Sunday, May 30, 1999 3:24 PM Subject: Re: Water Over Mercury-Pool Discharge Experiment You miss the point, Knuke. With the solenoid you can seal up the pipe with the solenoid inside. Otherwise you can use 304 stainless and an external magnet to pull up the anode (with a piece of iron attached) to the desired height for a stable arc.. This way you've got a Hg pool with the arc under the water and a heat pipe that will spread the heat and compress the non-condensable gases at the top,where they can be bled off. There shouldn't be any Hg vapor coming off. This way when the Hg undergoes LENR to Gold, it will make an amalgam that will be easy to purify. :-) You can get the 24 volts D. C. off of $30.00 worth of lawn tractor batteries. Regards, Frederick > Fred wrote: > >Good Deal, Knuke. > > > >Now then, can one make up a solenoid using 10 Gage Magnet wire hooked in > >series with the anode current so that it will pick up the anode after it > >makes contact with the mercury pool if you use an iron rod attached to the > >carbon anode? Or will it oscillate? :-) > > > >Regards, Frederick > > Well Fred, if it behaves anything like a mercury vapor switch, you'd have to > pull that anode pretty far up to get the circuit to break :-) I don't mess > with Hg, myself, that stuff will make you WACKO! > > Knuke > > > Michael T. Huffman > Huffman Technology Company > 1121 Dustin Drive > Lady Lake, Florida 32159 > (352)259-1276 > knuke LCIA.COM > http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 15:33:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA25059; Sun, 30 May 1999 15:30:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 15:30:58 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Teflon Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 18:35:17 -0400 Message-ID: <19990530223517937.AAA231 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"K1EYo3.0.T76.YmRKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27647 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gnorts, Found this on Teflon at: http://research.nwfsc.noaa.gov/msds.html If you type in the word teflon, you get many products of course, including some that contain polyurethanes. The data below was from one of the more pure forms from Dupont called TEFLON FLUOROCARBON RESIN FEP, 100, but there are many others. The decomposition point is much lower than I thought, and it reacts to *molten alkali metals*. Interestingly enough, there is an outfit that is manufacturing various resins, etc. called Deft, in Irvine, California, and they are located on a street called Von Karman Avenue, I guess after the discoverer Theodore Von Karman who discovered the Von Karman Vortex Streets. I wonder why they would put his name on an Avenue? Maybe vortices make avenues and boulevards, too. =========================================================================== Reactivity Data =========================================================================== Cond To Avoid (Stability): TEFLON WILL BURN IN A ATMOSPHERE OF 95% OXYGEN WHEN AN IGNITION SOURCE IS PRESENT. Materials To Avoid: MOLTEN ALKALI METALS, INTERHALOGEN COMPOUNDS. Hazardous Decomp Products: >280C PRODUCT CAN EVOLVE TOXIC GASEOUS MATLS SUCH AS HF & PERFLUOROOLEFINS. THE OSHA PEL FOR HF IS 3 PPM. (SUPP DATA) Conditions To Avoid (Poly): NONE SPECIFIED BY MANUFACTURER. =========================================================================== Health Hazard Data =========================================================================== You can poke around the various forms of Teflon, and maybe make a guess as to which one you are using, Scott. Maybe you can ask Mizuno which form he is using, and what kind of glass he is using, too. Have A Good Weekend! Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 17:11:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA11372; Sun, 30 May 1999 17:09:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 17:09:30 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990530170224.00996520 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: Tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 17:09:14 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Teflon: Re: important details In-Reply-To: <002101beaaa8$f26cd940$155accd1 default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"9PXUH2.0.Xn2.vCTKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27648 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:27 AM 5/30/99 -0400, you wrote: > >>>At 11:34 PM 5/28/99 -0400, Michael T Huffman wrote: > > > > >>>>Did you know that a very small amount of Teflon gas >>>>can kill you? >>> >>>I've heard that rumor before. I'd like to hear further substantion of >>>it...seems to me that Teflon would NOT be permitted for stove-top cookware >>>if that were really the case. I used to work in a manufacturing facility where we sintered teflon ribbon to manf. multi signal transmission line cables. The ovens were either molten salt, or IR radiant ovens. The process is carried out at about 450 F if I recall (13 years ago), but the radiant heaters were blazing red hot since the residency time was fairly short as the cable moved through the ovens. Teflon has a very high melting, and decomposition temperature. But the fumes can be dangerous, but not deadly afaik. I recall the fab line becoming stopped, and the cable over heating at least once and no one was tremendously worried about it aside from needing to swing the ovens out of the way before the things caught on fire. One interesting other toxic is freon. It is fine normally, but if you are a smoker and breath the freon in through a cigarette, then the fumes are converted into a nerve gas, phosgene I think it was. Very bad stuff and could knock a person down right away. If you burn a teflon pan on the stove with nothing in it (ie forget it is on and burn it up), then I'd get out of the house until the smoke cleared, definitely. Aside from burning it up, I wouldn't worry. And with some water around it, it should burn up. ie, water boils at below teflons melting temp, so it ought to be fine in Scott's experiment. rt From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 18:36:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA29937; Sun, 30 May 1999 18:36:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 18:36:03 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Water Over Mercury-Pool Discharge Experiment Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 21:40:24 -0400 Message-ID: <19990531014024140.AAA246 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"_8hkc1.0.hJ7.2UUKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27649 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred wrote: >You miss the point, Knuke. > >With the solenoid you can seal up the pipe with the solenoid inside. >Otherwise you can use 304 stainless and an external magnet to pull up the >anode (with a piece of iron attached) to the desired height for a stable >arc.. This way you've got a Hg pool with the arc under the water and a heat >pipe that will spread the heat and compress the non-condensable gases at the >top,where they can be bled off. There shouldn't be any Hg vapor coming off. >This way when the Hg undergoes LENR to Gold, it will make an amalgam that >will be easy to purify. :-) > >You can get the 24 volts D. C. off of $30.00 worth of lawn tractor >batteries. > >Regards, Frederick You're right, that one went way over my head. Seems like anything to do with making money has a way of wizzing right by this investigator. I must be tuned in to an entirely different frequency than everybody else. ;-) Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 18:49:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA00380; Sun, 30 May 1999 18:46:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 18:46:41 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Teflon: Re: important details Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 21:51:00 -0400 Message-ID: <19990531015100843.AAA126 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"JiVy.0.r5.0eUKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27650 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ross wrote: >One interesting other toxic is freon. It is fine normally, but if you are >a smoker and breath the freon in through a cigarette, then the fumes are >converted into a nerve gas, phosgene I think it was. Very bad stuff and >could knock a person down right away. Yeah, it's Phosgene gas. I did a lot of welding on steel pipe feed lines, and brazed copper freon lines, and even after you bleed them off, it's hard to get rid of the stuff. Any reefer oil left in the line will hold it, and you basically have to pull the hardest vac that you can to boil the stuff out of the reefer oil, and actually try and pull the oil out of it before you light a torch. If you do get a wiff, the effects are immediate, but I've never died from it. :-) Not even once. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 18:57:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA03073; Sun, 30 May 1999 18:56:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 18:56:49 -0700 Message-ID: <000801beab08$3a96c500$b18f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: REMBAR Technical Data Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 19:52:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEAAD5.ED893220" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"XhlTp2.0.xl.XnUKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27651 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEAAD5.ED893220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.rembar.com/tech2.htm#chart2 Some Good Stuff on Metal Properties ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEAAD5.ED893220 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="REMBAR Technical Data.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="REMBAR Technical Data.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.rembar.com/tech2.htm [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.rembar.com/tech2.htm#chart2 Modified=A011CE0208ABBE01F3 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEAAD5.ED893220-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 19:54:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12491; Sun, 30 May 1999 19:53:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 19:53:39 -0700 Message-ID: <19990531025434.13779.rocketmail web104.yahoomail.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 19:54:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: H2K: Calibration To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"GjM0a2.0.133.pcVKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27652 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: VCockeram aol.com wrote: >outputs about 18 watts at a 40 watt input. I recorded input watts, >output voltage and output amperes using the watt-hour meter >and two true RMS digital multimeters.... > > Here are the data from tonight's testing: > > Outvolts---Outwatts---Inwatts > 500------------4.6--------9.2 > 600------------6.6-------13.6 > 700------------9.1-------19.2 > 800----------11.8-------25.8 > 900----------14.9-------33.4 > 1000--------18.5-------41.8 Vince, This is not enough data to characterize your transformer. The transformer is NOT characterized by a simple efficiency vs power relation. Remember all that discussion we had a couple of months ago. There are two main transformer losses. Core loss depends mainly on primary volts. Resistive winding loss depends on RMS current. Therefore, in addition to the data in your table above, you must also record the rms secondary current and the primary voltage. It will probably turn out that you can then prepare a table of efficiency vs secondary current and primary voltage. === Michael J. Schaffer _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 20:02:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA16789; Sun, 30 May 1999 20:00:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 20:00:59 -0700 Message-ID: <19990531030152.14584.rocketmail web104.yahoomail.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 20:01:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: Mizuno comments To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"ZGcFY3.0.864.gjVKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27653 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am puzzled that Scott's electrolytic arc experiment performs so differently from Mizuno's. Scott's has a higher electrical impedance than Mizuno's, and the electrode is altered differently, too. They use the same electrolyte and concentration. They use the same cathode element and size. Most electrical impedance typically develops near the cathode. Both experiments use large-area anodes. This should make the impedance very insensitive to anode details. I'm puzzled. The electrical behavior of the two experimetns should replicate better than this. I'm sure Scott and Mizuno are trying to figure out what is different. === Michael J. Schaffer _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 20:07:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA19438; Sun, 30 May 1999 20:05:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 20:05:58 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-67.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.67] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Water Over Mercury-Pool Discharge Experiment Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 03:05:23 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3752fc01.2627153 mail-hub> References: <19990530212419234.AAA258 mail.lcia.com@lizard> <002501beaae7$99e15000$cd8f85ce@default> In-Reply-To: <002501beaae7$99e15000$cd8f85ce default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA19415 Resent-Message-ID: <"dYXu_1.0.al4.LoVKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27654 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 30 May 1999 15:58:47 -0600, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] >top,where they can be bled off. There shouldn't be any Hg vapor coming off. >This way when the Hg undergoes LENR to Gold, it will make an amalgam that >will be easy to purify. :-) [snip] It doesn't produce gold. Unfortunately, it only produces platinum (through loss of He4) ;^). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 20:38:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA26023; Sun, 30 May 1999 20:37:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 20:37:49 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: <24537060.24835df5 aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 23:37:25 EDT Subject: Re: H2K: Calibration To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"ggN7S2.0.XM6.DGWKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27655 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 05/30/1999 19:54:27 Pacific Daylight Time, schaffermj yahoo.com writes: > Vince, > > This is not enough data to characterize your transformer. The transformer > is NOT characterized by a simple efficiency vs power relation. Remember all > that discussion we had a couple of months ago. There are two main > transformer losses. Core loss depends mainly on primary volts. Resistive > winding loss depends on RMS current. Therefore, in addition to the data in > your table above, you must also record the rms secondary current and the > primary voltage. It will probably turn out that you can then prepare a > table of efficiency vs secondary current and primary voltage. > === > Michael J. Schaffer Sorry I didn't make this clear. I recorded input watts using the watt-hour meter. I recorded secondary voltage and current using two true RMS digital meters and multiplied the two meter readings to arrive at the output watts figure. I did of course write the secondary voltage / current figures in my lab notes but didn't want to clutter up the post. The secondary was loaded with a 54 Kohm resistor. So the only thing I missed was primary voltage. No problem with that. I will rerun the test Monday with a true RMS meter recording primary voltage. Thanks for the guidence. Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas Nevada 702-254-2122 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 20:51:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA30092; Sun, 30 May 1999 20:50:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 20:50:54 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990530225051.0088ca40 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 22:50:51 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Comment on Incandescent Tungsten Experiment In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990530102651.00733d70 world.std.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990530090045.00904a60 mail.eden.com> <009401beaaa1$1c2fbde0$4b8f85ce default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"h-lcg1.0.tL7.TSWKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27658 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:26 AM 5/30/99 -0400, Mitchell Swartz wrote: >Pd/D2O and Ni/H2O and reportedly acoustic and gas techniques >are all robust. Sorry, I should have defined "robust". In this case it means that one can prescribe a certain experimental protocol which, when followed closely, will produce the desired experimental result (i.e. excess heat) virtually every time. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 20:52:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA30026; Sun, 30 May 1999 20:50:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 20:50:51 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990530222824.008ebbe0 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 22:28:24 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: PLEC: anode/cathode ratio, cell temperature In-Reply-To: <5d2e5b2.2482badd aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"prKY41.0.3L7.QSWKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27656 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:01 PM 5/30/99 EDT, Tstolper aol.com wrote: >It seems to me that the surface area of the wires in Mizuno's mesh anode is >likely to be a lot less than 100 times the surface area of the rectangular >plate cathode. The actual wires are pretty small but closely-spaced wires in a mesh should make an electric field that looks almost exactly like a solid sheet of metal, especially by the time you get two or three times the mesh opening away from it. I'm pretty sure that it's the overall mesh area...not the wire area that counts. Any electrochemists wanna comment on this point? >Scott, did Mizuno tell you that anything over 70 degrees C was ok for cell >temperature? He just said keep it over 70C. I've asked him to elaborate on that point but, meanwhile, the next run I do will go much higher in temp. Right now I'm playing with the calorimeter to see if I can make it (the inlet water temperature regulation) immune to the transients that occur when I apply ~100 watts to the cell suddenly. It's looking pretty good...just a couple more days of tweaking. BTW, PLEC is OK with me. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 20:52:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA30076; Sun, 30 May 1999 20:50:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 20:50:53 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990530225200.008eb5b0 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 22:52:00 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Comment on Incandescent Tungsten Experiment In-Reply-To: <15a123fe.2482beca aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"dAI-O.0.kL7.TSWKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27657 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:18 PM 5/30/99 EDT, BriggsRO aol.com wrote: >I have only one additional suggestion. If, after trying Mizuno's cathode and >all of his suggestions, you can't duplicate his results, my suggestion for >the next step would be to accept his invitation to pay him a visit and try to >understand what he is doing differently from you by a first hand look at his >system. Maybe if you could show him your system, he could spot the important >differences. I like that idea a lot. It would be expensive but, if it made my experiment work, it would be worth every penny....and then a lot more! Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 21:19:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA07566; Sun, 30 May 1999 21:18:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 21:18:39 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990531001457.00841140 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 00:14:57 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Comment on Incandescent Tungsten Experiment In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990530225051.0088ca40 mail.eden.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19990530102651.00733d70 world.std.com> <3.0.5.32.19990530090045.00904a60 mail.eden.com> <009401beaaa1$1c2fbde0$4b8f85ce default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HLAaG1.0.8s1.VsWKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27659 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:50 PM 5/30/99 -0500, Scott Little wrote: >At 10:26 AM 5/30/99 -0400, Mitchell Swartz wrote: >>Pd/D2O and Ni/H2O and reportedly acoustic and gas techniques >>are all robust. > >Sorry, I should have defined "robust". In this case it means that one can >prescribe a certain experimental protocol which, when followed closely, >will produce the desired experimental result (i.e. excess heat) virtually >every time. Yes. but that does not mean it is simple. Not everyone can perform a successful esophagectomy, or cardiac surgery, on someone (who needs it obviously). Yet in experienced hands, those patients do well. ;-)X. CF is more difficult than synthesis of a ruby by flame which is relatively easy. The only way to improve success is to examine the science and technology closely, and that takes considerable effort. Best wishes. Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 22:07:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA17662; Sun, 30 May 1999 22:06:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 22:06:27 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Water Over Mercury-Pool Discharge Experiment Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 01:10:39 -0400 Message-ID: <19990531051039625.AAA208 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"qOFi-1.0.uJ4.IZXKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27660 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin wrote: >It doesn't produce gold. Unfortunately, it only produces platinum >(through loss of He4) ;^). Darn, and I thought we were on to something there. Merlin told me he was having the same difficulties, but he was using an entirely different process that included any radioactive material, some other stuff that I can't remember because it was so long ago, and gunpowder. I didn't understand it, either. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun May 30 22:46:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA23931; Sun, 30 May 1999 22:43:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 22:43:27 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Free Toast! Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 01:47:47 -0400 Message-ID: <19990531054747203.AAA122 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"M3ir33.0.rr5._5YKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27661 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gnorts, http://news1.thdo.bbc.co.uk/low/english/sci/tech/newsid_354000/354646.stm This is from the FREENRG Group Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive Lady Lake, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 05:43:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA05962; Mon, 31 May 1999 05:43:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 05:43:23 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990531083935.0083c100 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 08:39:35 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Comment on Incandescent Tungsten Experiment In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990530225200.008eb5b0 mail.eden.com> References: <15a123fe.2482beca aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"iVa2N2.0._S1.gFeKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27662 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:52 PM 5/30/99 -0500, Scott Little wrote: >At 12:18 PM 5/30/99 EDT, BriggsRO aol.com wrote: >>I have only one additional suggestion. If, after trying Mizuno's cathode >and all of his suggestions, you can't duplicate his results, my suggestion for >>the next step would be to accept his invitation to pay him a visit and try >to understand what he is doing differently from you by a first hand look at his >>system. Maybe if you could show him your system, he could spot the >important differences. > >I like that idea a lot. It would be expensive but, if it made my >experiment work, it would be worth every penny....and then a lot more! Why can't you 'remote view' how it is done, with Hal Puthoff's and your own purported Earthtech technology? or are there resolution, or distance, problems? or is the remote viewing too irreproducible? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 09:18:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA25564; Mon, 31 May 1999 09:15:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:15:17 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990531115406.0079fd70 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 11:54:06 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Mallove-Park Cold Fusion Radio Program Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"JCG3z3.0.MF6.LMhKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27663 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gene writes: On the other hand, I might just rig up a recording device on the phone. Bad idea. They usually attenuate the signal and introduce noise. I suppose that is how the wire tap detectors detect them. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 09:18:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA25593; Mon, 31 May 1999 09:15:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:15:19 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990531121531.007a1680 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 12:15:31 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Mizuno comments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"3jcBg3.0.kF6.NMhKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27664 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little writes: [Mizuno] advises stirring the electrolyte, apparently DURING electrolysis. Jed, can you find any mention of that in the paper you're working on? Yes, the stirrer is shown in the schematic I faxed you. (4) He says that the dark appearance of my cathode after the run is unusual. He says that his cathodes that show excess heat are usually "very brilliant" after the run. This could be a critically important difference. I presently have no idea why mine turned dark. I am sure this is a critical difference. I have no idea why this chemical change occurs, but things like this are always important in CF experiments. I suspect oxygen or a contaminant from other cell components, possible the cell walls, which are not the quartz glass Mizuno uses. Quartz glass resists decomposing at high temperatures. Michael Schaffer writes: They use the same electrolyte and concentration. They use the same cathode element and size. I don't think so. Scott's cathode is smaller, I think. Obviously they are not literally the same because the tungsten and electrolyte reagents come from different suppliers, and the chemical reactions are totally different. As Ed Storms says, no two pieces of palladium are ever the same. He means that literally. On the microscopic scale at which CF occurs, metal samples are as different and unique as snowflakes. I'm puzzled. The electrical behavior of the two experiments should replicate better than this. Yes. But it is quite different, and the chemical changes are also very different. Given these huge differences, I am not at all surprised Scott sees no excess heat. When Mizuno's experiments behave like this, he does not see any heat either. Electrochemical experiments are much harder to replicate than most people realize. I mean ordinary ones, not just CF. First you have to master ordinary electrochem and replicate the same curves, impedance, loading and so on. Then you do CF. Without extensive training in electrochem, I think there is little likelihood of success according to people like Bockris and Fleischmann. I am not optimistic about the replications we will attempt, but at least we will be starting with the same materials. Mizuno is more optimistic than I am. He thinks we will see heat with the cell I plan to bring back from Japan. One thing is certain: when there are gross differences in electrical, electrochemical, and the chemical performance of a cell, the experiment is not a "replication." It is a learning experience, or a new unrelated experiment, but not a replication. You cannot draw any conclusions about the original experiment based on it. This is why 99.99% of the early cold fusion "replications" were meaningless. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 10:42:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA17473; Mon, 31 May 1999 10:41:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 10:41:25 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Comment on Incandescent Tungsten Experiment Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:45:47 -0400 Message-ID: <19990531174547640.AAA122 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"Z6M2p.0.xG4.5diKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27665 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mitch wrote: > Why can't you 'remote view' how it is done, with >Hal Puthoff's and your own purported Earthtech technology? > > or are there resolution, or distance, problems? >or is the remote viewing too irreproducible? Or better yet, just Command him to come to your lab. And bring all his stuff. And pick up some donuts on the way. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 10:49:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA20290; Mon, 31 May 1999 10:48:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 10:48:34 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990531103656.009938f0 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: Tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 10:48:18 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: Mallove-Park Cold Fusion Radio Program In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990531115406.0079fd70 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"L9BT31.0.qy4.njiKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27666 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:54 AM 5/31/99 -0400, you wrote: >Gene writes: > > On the other hand, I might just rig up a recording device on the phone. > >Bad idea. They usually attenuate the signal and introduce noise. I suppose >that is how the wire tap detectors detect them. > >- Jed I think it is worse than that. I think it is illegal, unless you inform the other parties that you are doing it. That is why recorders go beep all the time while recording messages while you are also talking, and why they are required to let you know that someone may be listening in on some business calls (to insure quality of service). Anyway, I would make certain that they didn't mind up front to avoid any potential problems with copyright infringement down the road. ie, their broadcast is no doubt copyrighted, and while we are used to making copies of this and that for free, technically this is illegal. Besides, I figure that if they are taking the volition to broadcast this thing, then if possible, they ought to make a few bucks off of selling the tapes of the show (I'll buy a tape for example). The same goes true for IE's new video. I figure that I ought to purchase 30 copies for their discount ~$22 if I recall, rather than making the same 30 copies myself at a couple bucks each. The reason is, I managed to get some funding for this work, and so I owe it to others to spread that money around in directions that will benefit our entire movement toward a new form of energy. As they say in Hollywood, "It doesn't matter if it is good news or bad news, just spell the name right". The point being, everyone in the investment community and scientific community are under the impression that cold fusion is dead. When they hear of news about it with **increasing** frequency, that is a signal that they ought to give it a second look. Once more people begin doing that, the financial floodgates will finally open up. It is extremely important for all people involved, that the publicity gets out there into the main stream, and on a regular basis and with increasing frequency. Journalists tend to chase after a new story like a bunch of lemings, or like a flock of sheep (depending on whether the story is bogus or real). Either way, the news makes it out when the story is exciting. And everyone likes a come from behind under dog story, which is what CF is all about. So once main stream reporters begin to latch onto this story, then more reporters will jump into the fray and a snowball reporting process will ensue, for a while. That snowball effect gets everyone in a frenzy (well, a lot of people). And some of those people are investors, and hence, some of the investors will begin to put private money into these devices. That, in the parlance of the market, leads to what is called, a "Bull Market", ie, a market with two or more buyers for one thing. Prices soar, investments soar, and finally, research has the funding it needs to accomplish it's appointed rounds. So, the more publicity the better Gene. rt From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 11:13:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA25767; Mon, 31 May 1999 11:12:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 11:12:49 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990531104841.009929c0 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: Tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 11:12:18 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Advice for Mallove -Park Cold Fusion Radio Program In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990531115406.0079fd70 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"nn5yY3.0.XI6.W4jKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27667 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gene: The video you guys put together deserves a round of applause, which it has received from myself and from others. But as you are moving increasingly into the public view, a few comments (constructive) will hopefully be well taken. 1) It doesn't matter one iota whether or not humanity needs another energy source due to our running out of oil and coal. 2) It doesn't matter one iota if we are polluting the earth with those fuels. The fact is, there is nothing in the desires of man that demand that nature have a solution to support our way of life. To claim "We need" a new source of energy, does not mean that nature cares, or that nature **HAS** another solution for us to use. You have excellent amunition to go up against any CF critique. The heat issue is valid, and I conclude that the heat during bursts of CF activity are proof of the effect. But those who have not seen it with their own eyes, are not going to be convinced by such evidence. You have evidence of tritium, and neutrons, at levels far above background noise. ie, use Bockris' comments about tritium being 10,000 times the amount that should be there. It is a simple fact, that if you produce ANY neutrons or ANY tritium or ANY beta active isotopes with short half lives, then you HAVE IN FACT caused some nuclear reactions (unless of course you have committed fraud). If you go into the debate with the background normal concentration of tritium in D2O that hasn't been exposed to a reactor or anything. the sensitivity of the instruments with which they measure the background concentrations. And then you show that Bockris measured abundant excess tritium in 3 out of 5 experiments (ie repeatable) where the measurements are far above background and far out of the experimental mud, then your opponent in the debate will need to concede that this is either proof of some form of nuclear reaction, or, it is proof of fraud. If you use that tactic, and repeat the example with Bockris', and Srindivasin????(the physicist in India, I don't have his spelling here), and Storm's, And Mizuno, and then you use the identical argument for neutrons, and include Mizuno, Claytor, and then you can use EPRI's statement regarding E40 times too much of the radio isotopes they observed etc. It is extremely important to mention both the names of the researchers, and the names of their laboratories along with the countries. What this demonstrates, is that it is NOT the result of observations by one whacko in a garage. Rather, it is a cumulation of repeated experimental evidence, acquired over years of work in a variety of well equiped laboratories around the world. You can then ask the direct question to your opposition debator: "Do you, or do you not agree that if a single one of the above examples is real, that some nuclear process is required to have produced the observed experimental results? Or, put another way, do you agree that in order for all of those experimental observations to be discounted, that the fact that the measurements are out of the background noise levels means that each and every one of those experimental results had to have been forged, and the result of collusion by 6 researchers at 6 different laboratories in 3? different countries, and that these reports must be the result of fraud?" Your opponent will cringe at the suggestion of accusing them all of fraud, but by presenting the nuclear evidence, and by establishing the credibility of the investigators and the prowess of their observational equpment, you leave him no choice. You can paint him into a corner from which the only escape is to accuse all of the above people of fraud. Either there is fraud involved, or there is some level of nuclear process going on. He should agree with you to the extent that he says "If those observations are correct, then I would agree that there must be some nuclear process taking place." In fact, you should ask him this question point blank and probably early on. If he tries to discount any of your reports, simply ask "Have you read this paper by ........ and have each paper ready for each of the researchers you quote as having reported observing nuclear products. His answer will of course be NO. And so you will crush him by simple ignorance of the papers, regardless of whether or not the papers are correct. If he hasn't read the papers, and you have, then he has no grounds for claiming that your reporting is faulty, and all listeners will recognize this fact. That's my two cents worth. I have used this approach in front of investors, and I can tell you that it works every time. Ross From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 11:19:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA28017; Mon, 31 May 1999 11:18:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 11:18:16 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990531141826.007a1680 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 14:18:26 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Mizuno comments In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990531121531.007a1680 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"f41yA1.0.cr6.d9jKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27668 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wrote: >I don't think so. Scott's cathode is smaller, I think. I take that back. They are both 1 cm^2. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 11:20:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA28946; Mon, 31 May 1999 11:19:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 11:19:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990531141948.007a3100 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 14:19:48 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Mallove-Park Cold Fusion Radio Program In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990531103656.009938f0 pop3.oro.net> References: <3.0.6.32.19990531115406.0079fd70 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"RuFgr2.0.C47.tAjKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27669 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: rt wrote: >I think it is worse than that. I think it is illegal, unless you inform >the other parties that you are doing it. I assumed Gene planned to tell everyone! - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 13:22:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22434; Mon, 31 May 1999 13:21:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:21:05 -0700 Message-ID: <00c401beaba2$7c07f320$cd8f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re; Comment on Incandescent Tungsten Experiment Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 14:15:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"hPnJB3.0.SU5.nykKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27670 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Help me out here, Scott, If your power supply is so well regulated that when the arc wants to go into a downward slope in voltage with a decrease in resistance due to enhanced emission of electrons from the Tungsten, could it be that it is self-defeating for the OU manifestation in the arc? IOW, Power = I*V = I^2R = E^2/R for a well regulated power supply does not square with the Volt-Ampere Curve that Mizuno has for his arc and power supply? If this is the case, shouldn't you be able to run up to an arc mode, and then back off on your power supply? Where's Mike Schaffer? Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 13:50:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA28447; Mon, 31 May 1999 13:47:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 13:47:37 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990531164752.007a1c30 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 16:47:52 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Advice for Mallove -Park Cold Fusion Radio Program Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"migPQ2.0.Py6.fLlKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27671 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ross Tessien has not encountered the likes of Robert Part, and perhaps he missed my debates with people like Dick Blue. He writes, rather naively: Your opponent will cringe at the suggestion of accusing them all of fraud, but by presenting the nuclear evidence, and by establishing the credibility of the investigators and the prowess of their observational equipment, you leave him no choice. You can paint him into a corner from which the only escape is to accuse all of the above people of fraud. Cringe?!? Never! Park does not cringe at the suggestion; he revels in it. He loves to accuse them all of being frauds, as well as lunatics, liars and criminals. He has done that many times, on the record, most recently at the APS. In 1991, he wrote in the Washington Post: "If everyone knows it is wrong, why are they doing it? Inept scientists whose reputations would be tarnished, greedy administrators..., gullible politicians who had squandered the taxpayers' dollars, lazy journalists... -- all had an interest in making it appear that the issue had not been settled. Their easy corruption was one of the most chilling aspects of this sad comedy. To be sure, there are true believers among the cold-fusion acolytes, just as there are sincere scientists who believe in psychokinesis, flying saucers, creationism and the Chicago Cubs... A PhD in science is not inoculation against foolishness -- or mendacity." He has not backed off from that position by one micron. I am sure that Park and the other hard-core opponents mean what they say. They honestly believe that all data from all experiments is either forged or the result of sloppy mistakes. I have encountered these people often in person and in print, and I am sure they are sincere. The one thing I do not accuse them of doing is misrepresenting their own views or attacking something they secretly suspect may be true. In the video, Tom Passell described his personal encounters with people who attacked cold fusion in public but secretly asked him for research contracts. Extremists like Park are not like this. Ross suggest that Gene should describe the evidence. That may make an impression on the radio audience, if the presentation can be kept simple, but it will never sway Robert Park. He has seen the evidence -- I have mailed him papers from Los Alamos and SRI. I have handed him papers in person. He hands them right back -- he literally dismisses the data out of hand. Hard core opponents will not read papers or look at graphs, quantitative analyses, statistics, error bars, blank experiments, or any other data. They will never discuss these issues. They have no idea what the cold fusion researchers actually claim. They address all subtle scientific questions with a blunderbuss. At the APS, McKubre read a paper by Ed Storms describing, among other things, the index of expansion of palladium and the excess volume problem. Morrison, who heard this lecture and who has attended several ICCF conferences, said he had never heard of this! Imagine a person standing up at biology conference and saying, "do you mean to say DNA affects heredity?!?" He asked, in effect, if you solve this expansion problem can you guarantee the experiment will work? -- which is like asking "if I make sure there is gas in the car, can you guarantee it will run?" McKubre sensibly replied that expansion is an important parameter. Morrison is also famous for saying, at ICCF3, that nickel and palladium are "the same thing" -- thus neatly disposing of the argument that subtle differences between materials may play a role in cold fusion. Other people propose that ppm levels of dopants, or metal grain size, or even specific Pd isotopes, may be critical. The hard-core skeptic refuses to distinguish between *elements*. Morrison has also proposed that frozen D2O should produce the CF effect -- and since it doesn't, CF does not exist. Not only does he fail to note that element #46 is not #28, he will not admit the distinctions between metal and non-metal, and between compounds and elements. He reduces complex scientific questions to sound bites and comic book captions. He is close to the point where any distinction beyond earth, air, fire and water will be considered a "needlessly multiplied entity" which must be hacked off with the skeptic's version of Ockham's razor. (Ockham was a great philosopher who does not deserve this.) I am not exaggerating. As Dave Barry says, I did not make this up. These people are off the scale, deeply into the lunatic fringe. It is ironic that they accuse *us* of having wild ideas. It is a role reversal. If we ever succeed in convincing the world that CF is real, afterward people will look at statements by Park, Morrison, Zimmerman and others, and they will realize these people are gullible, wild-eyed groupies who will believe any damn thing, whereas Fleischmann, Bockris, Fritz Will, McKubre et al. are the rock-solid mainstream scientists. Quoting Fleischmann: "It's been said that we have gone off the wall with our ideas, but that's absurd. Actually we are *extremely* conventional scientists. I always say we are so conventional it is painful." Ross also wrote: If you use that tactic, and repeat the example with Bockris', and Srindivasin???? That's Mahadeva Srinivasan, Neutron Physics Div., BARC - Bhabha Atomic Research Center (ret.), chino37 hotmail.com - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 15:01:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA10890; Mon, 31 May 1999 14:58:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 14:58:08 -0700 Message-ID: <19990531215818.4387.rocketmail web126.yahoomail.com> Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 14:58:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: Mizuno comments To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"iQFyv.0._f2.lNmKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27672 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I understand that Scott is trying to replicate Mizuno-Ohmori's experiment as closely as possible. I agree that this is a good idea. Some comments: The electrode size affects current density (Amp/cm^2), and the geometry affects how the current density is distributed over the electrode. E.g. the current density will be high at corners and edges, and it will be lower on the flat faces. (Right now I am talking about electrodes immersed in liquid electrolyte.) Current density amounts to electrons/cm^2/sec, which is directly tied to chemical reaction rates and to the diffusion rates of chemical reactants and products in the electrode vicinity. Many of these chemical and diffusion rates are quite slow compared to 1 A/cm^2. Thus, when one forces high current density, the reaction environment is far from the familiar thermodynamic equilibrium. I say all this just to emphasize that replication requires matching cathode geometry and current density, because current density is high at the cathode. It might be important to get the high cathode current density correct. At the anode, the current density is very much lower, because anode area is large. Therefore, anode geometry is less likely to be critical. Athough a close replication of the anode would also be desireable, it is far more important to get the cathode right. Re quartz vs. borosilicate glass. Quartz it is more inert than glasses. Borosilicate glass is more inert than most other glasses. There are several kinds of borosilicate glass, differing by the amount of B and of minor constituents used to modify the basic properties of the glass. Comercial quartz labware usually has still a few percent of other components. You probably have to check with Mizuno in detail what he really has. K2CO3 is mildly alkaline in solution, and alkaline solutions attack glasses to some extent. The rate of attack increases rapidly with temperature. Glasses slowly yield silicates into solution in harsh environments, and the M-O experiment probably qualifies as harsh. Silicates on the cathode might be the origen of Scott's discoloration. Does Mizuno purify his solutions, e.g. by electolysis with temporary electrodes that are then removed, before the experiment? The gas envelope or bubble around the cathode and the arc are complicated. The bubble size might depend on the surrounding pressure (depth under water) and the atmospheric pressure. Is the barometric pressure significantly different between Austin and Sapporo? I doubt it. This would affect the size of the bubble that around the cathode. Arcs are sensitive to electrode surface composition and to gas pressure and composition and to current density. The liquid-gas interface is the arc anode. Arc anodes are less critical than the corresponding cathodes, because the anode mainly collects electrons, a relatively easy job. The liquid interface is also the electrolytic cathode, dispensing electrons to the solution, which gets us back into the reaction rate and current density issue. The arc composition depends on power density and who knows what else: H, O, K, C, maybe some N if the electrolyte surface is freely open to air (I forgot. Is Mizuno's cell as tightly covered as Little's?) Since it is the arc that interacts most directly with the cathode, it might be most important to get the arc replicated properly. In addition to the geometry, chemistry, and temperature, we probably have to match some power supply details, too. I don't know how this arc depends on power supply details. However, it is likely to depend at least some on the dynamic response of the power supply to load changes. The two traditional extremes are constant voltage, approximated in practice by a large low-L capacitor across the terminals, and constant current, approximated by a large inductance in series between power supply and load. What does Mizuno's power supply look like electrically? === Michael J. Schaffer _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 15:12:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA01178; Mon, 31 May 1999 15:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 15:10:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Re; Comment on Incandescent Tungsten Experiment Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 18:03:22 -0400 Message-ID: <19990531220322281.AAA282 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"DNIuK2.0.KI.KZmKt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27673 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred wrote: >Help me out here, Scott, > >If your power supply is so well regulated that when the arc wants to go into >a downward slope in voltage with a decrease in resistance due to enhanced >emission of electrons from the Tungsten, could it be that it is >self-defeating for the OU manifestation in the arc? > >IOW, Power = I*V = I^2R = E^2/R for a well regulated power supply >does not square with >the Volt-Ampere Curve that Mizuno has for his arc and power supply? > >If this is the case, shouldn't you be able to run up to an arc mode, and >then back off on your power supply? > >Where's Mike Schaffer? > >Regards, Frederick If the way Mizuno is doing his calorimetry is similar to the way Scott and Vince are doing theirs, and the inner container is indeed quartz glass, and the copper tubing surrounding the quartz glass is grounded, then this cell might be considered a two cathode cell, one cathode being the one in the center, and the other, a kind of semiconducting, perhaps oscillating source of electrons, with the quartz particles being small electron pumps pumping electrons from the ground into the electrolyte. In other words, the calorimeter is actually part of the cell, and the cell circuitry. Since Scott and Vince are not using quartz glass, they are not getting the electron shower from the glass, consequently, the cell requires more power from the the power supply. I don't think Scott's copper is grounded either. One solution is to switch to the quartz glass, put the copper coils in close contact with the glass, ground the copper, measure the current and voltage on the ground line, and then, probably, watch the caps short out. Another possible solution is to do the above and to ground all the components on separate lines that are far enough away from each other that they don't conflict. Just an idea... Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 16:18:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA01664; Mon, 31 May 1999 16:16:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 16:16:57 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 15:19:43 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Advice for Mallove -Park Cold Fusion Radio Program Resent-Message-ID: <"UrmDK.0.qP.fXnKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27674 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 4:47 PM 5/31/99, Jed Rothwell wrote: That Park wrote: "... A PhD in science is not inoculation against foolishness -- or mendacity." Being a frequent misspeller myself, I suspect the last word above is "mendicity," something which Park himself, and similar blind fanatics, should position themselves to avoid. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 16:25:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA04015; Mon, 31 May 1999 16:24:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 16:24:50 -0700 From: "Ed Wall" To: Subject: RE: Advice for Mallove -Park Cold Fusion Radio Program Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 19:25:13 -0400 Message-ID: <000601beabbc$d5927860$380a16cf computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 In-Reply-To: Resent-Message-ID: <"ze7u71.0.f-.2fnKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27675 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vo, Mendicancy is begging, as in asking for handouts from the Federal Government. Maybe it is what he meant. Mendacity is deceit. Ed Wall New Energy Research Laboratory http://www.infinite-energy.com email:ewall infinite-energy.com Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Bow, NH 03302-2816 (603) 226-4822 fax 224-5975 > -----Original Message----- > From: Horace Heffner [mailto:hheffner mtaonline.net] > Sent: Monday, May 31, 1999 7:20 PM > To: vortex-l eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Advice for Mallove -Park Cold Fusion Radio Program > > > At 4:47 PM 5/31/99, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > That Park wrote: "... A PhD in science is not inoculation against > foolishness -- or mendacity." > > > Being a frequent misspeller myself, I suspect the last word above is > "mendicity," something which Park himself, and similar blind fanatics, > should position themselves to avoid. > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 20:31:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA28784; Mon, 31 May 1999 20:30:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 20:30:35 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 19:33:15 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: RE: Advice for Mallove -Park Cold Fusion Radio Program Resent-Message-ID: <"cReoP.0.g17.QFrKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27676 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 7:25 PM 5/31/99, Ed Wall wrote: >Vo, > >Mendicancy is begging, as in asking for handouts from the Federal >Government. Maybe it is what he meant. > >Mendacity is deceit. > >Ed Wall Mendicity is an alternate form form of mendicancy, and though I can't be sure it is what Park meant, I am 100 percent sure it is what *I* meant. 8^) Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 20:53:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA01457; Mon, 31 May 1999 20:50:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 20:50:41 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990531224840.00891490 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 22:48:40 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Mizuno comments In-Reply-To: <19990531215818.4387.rocketmail web126.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Na_Tx.0.hM.HYrKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27677 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:58 PM 5/31/99 -0700, Michael Schaffer wrote: >Glasses >slowly yield silicates into solution in harsh environments, and the M-O >experiment probably qualifies as harsh. Silicates on the cathode might be >the origen of Scott's discoloration. I found a supplier of quartz beakers in the size I need. I'm ordering them ASAP. >Does Mizuno purify his solutions, e.g. >by electolysis with temporary electrodes that are then removed, before the >experiment? I'm virtually certain that he does not. He told me that he uses "ordinary" K2CO3 (pretty much equivalent to our ACS grade) to observe the excess heat effect. He only uses the super-pure stuff when looking for trace element reaction products. He has never mentioned purification steps. >In addition to the geometry, chemistry, and temperature, we probably have >to match some power supply details, too. Agreed. This is why I purchased a "proper" regulated DC power supply for my second attempt at Mizuno's experiment. He uses a constant voltage, well-regulated DC supply made by a Japanese firm and I purchased a nominally equivalent unit made here. Although I do not know the exact details of either of these power supplies, it seems like I should be much closer to his operating parameters than I was in my first effort (with a Variac and full-wave bridge). Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 20:59:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA04623; Mon, 31 May 1999 20:58:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 20:58:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990531235500.00849e60 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 23:55:00 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Mizuno comments In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990531224840.00891490 mail.eden.com> References: <19990531215818.4387.rocketmail web126.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"OzhBM2.0.481.ufrKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27678 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:48 PM 5/31/99 -0500, Scott Little wrote: >Agreed. This is why I purchased a "proper" regulated DC power supply for >my second attempt at Mizuno's experiment. He uses a constant voltage, >well-regulated DC supply made by a Japanese firm and I purchased a >nominally equivalent unit made here. Although I do not know the exact >details of either of these power supplies, it seems like I should be much >closer to his operating parameters than I was in my first effort (with a >Variac and full-wave bridge). "proper" means what? This is an important issue, and exact details may be quite important. Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 21:19:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA08520; Mon, 31 May 1999 21:18:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 21:18:32 -0700 From: John Logajan Message-Id: <199906010418.XAA08409 mirage.skypoint.com> Subject: Re: Mallove-Park Cold Fusion Radio Program In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990531103656.009938f0 pop3.oro.net> from Ross Tessien at "May 31, 99 10:48:18 am" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 23:18:28 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sPQsx3.0.052.OyrKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27679 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >Bad idea. They usually attenuate the signal and introduce noise. I suppose > >that is how the wire tap detectors detect them. > > I think it is worse than that. I think it is illegal, unless you inform > the other parties that you are doing it. That is why recorders go beep all > the time while recording messages while you are also talking You can't wiretap as an uninvited third party, but I believe only two states prohibit 2nd party phone recording (as we learned with Maryland and Linda Tripp), and there is no federal law against it. As far as detecting wire taps -- it is essentially impossible. The noise and amplitude of telephone lines vary so much there would be no way to characterize them to the minute detail required to determine that there is a high impedance tap in place. You can detect when a second phone goes off hook because it is intentionally such a low impedance -- the low impedance is *required* to activate the central office off-hook state. If your phone tap uses an RF transmitter, then of course, you'd be able to use a broadband signal level meter, or a spectrum analyzer to detect it. Also if you are looking for devices with diodes and transistors, it can often be detected by a little transmitter receiver device that broadcasts a carrier on one frequency and looks for twice that frequency on the other -- the non-linear region of semi-conductors acts as a heterodyning device and can generate the upper harmonics of a fundamental pure tone. This device is typically short range so that you 'sweep" it physically over the areas you are searching and when you get a response, you know the physical proximity. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 651-633-8928 - - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon May 31 22:02:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA24954; Mon, 31 May 1999 22:01:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 22:01:50 -0700 Message-ID: <00fc01beabeb$3af5bcc0$cd8f85ce default> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Mizuno comments Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 22:56:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"0ZrQ-3.0.q56.-asKt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/27680 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mitchell Swartz wrote: > > "proper" means what? > >This is an important issue, and exact details may be quite important. I agree. Perhaps a test to see if Scott's "constant voltage regulated power supply" is starving out the discharge of the device when it wants to go into the constant voltage negative resistance (high current draw) mode, is to use a diode in series to a large capacitor in parallel, with an ammeter between the capacitor and the discharge device. This way the capacitor can dump through the ammeter, (and not track the power supply) and if this is greater than the current indicated on the power supply then it is time for some head-scratching. :-) Regards, Frederick