Off The Hook - 1990-03-15

[00:04.000 --> 00:06.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: ...incompetent that they must be removed from their positions?
[00:06.980 --> 00:11.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: Fernandez said today that some of them end up working in the Board of Education headquarters.
[00:13.220 --> 00:21.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: Fernandez admitted it's frustrating to see city taxpayers supporting principals with charges pending against them, and even those who've been judged incompetent.
[00:21.740 --> 00:25.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: But he said many of them cannot be fired because they have tenure.
[00:25.800 --> 00:26.600]  [SPEAKER_21]: That's the law.
[00:27.180 --> 00:28.680]  [SPEAKER_21]: We have to pay these people.
[00:28.980 --> 00:36.460]  [SPEAKER_21]: And one of the things that might be helpful is distinguishing between some of the people that maybe we don't have to pay versus some of them that we do have to pay.
[00:36.660 --> 00:43.120]  [SPEAKER_21]: Like in cases where you have some criminal activity, the possibility of taking these people off the payroll while you're moving against them.
[00:43.420 --> 00:45.280]  [SPEAKER_21]: But there should be something that we can do.
[00:45.280 --> 00:49.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: Fernandez says there are some things that can be done to improve principals' performance.
[00:50.120 --> 01:02.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: He suggests a tougher evaluation process, a merit-pay system to reward the best principals, and a new method of selecting principals, which would take power away from community school boards and give it to teachers and supervisors.
[01:02.680 --> 01:11.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: This last proposal has drawn harsh criticism from education advocacy groups who fear that parents may lose their voice in the principal selection process.
[01:12.040 --> 01:17.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: But Fernandez says he thinks it's possible for parents and officials to work together to hire principals.
[01:17.880 --> 01:23.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: He says the real challenge, after all the horror stories, is to restore faith in the school system.
[01:23.640 --> 01:31.500]  [SPEAKER_21]: We have to really convince our community out there and our people that work for us that we're really looking for quality.
[01:31.660 --> 01:36.060]  [SPEAKER_21]: We pay top dollar for our administrators, and we should expect top performance.
[01:36.300 --> 01:43.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: But for now, Fernandez acknowledges his goals are a little more modest, like trying to make sure the city's principals come to school.
[01:44.260 --> 01:47.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: For WBAI News, I'm Julie Cohen.
[01:48.320 --> 01:53.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: Experts on juvenile violence say while the problem is getting worse, there's some cause for optimism.
[01:53.640 --> 01:54.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: Andy Richter reports.
[01:55.380 --> 02:01.280]  [SPEAKER_25]: Over the last few years, juvenile offenders have gotten younger, while the crimes they are committing are getting bloodier.
[02:01.540 --> 02:07.160]  [SPEAKER_25]: That is the finding of the City Council Committee on Youth Services in a series of hearings on youth violence.
[02:07.600 --> 02:14.460]  [SPEAKER_25]: Wednesday afternoon's hearing focused on heading off future violence through programs that bring students, parents, and teachers together.
[02:14.900 --> 02:20.380]  [SPEAKER_25]: Mr. Gordon of Innovative Community Enterprises says the students will rise to meet the challenge.
[02:20.380 --> 02:23.740]  [SPEAKER_22]: Look at how well children have mastered the challenges of Nintendo.
[02:24.260 --> 02:29.400]  [SPEAKER_22]: Observe how effectively some drug dealing youngsters have mastered the ins and outs of making money.
[02:30.000 --> 02:48.520]  [SPEAKER_22]: If we can bring joyful educational games and community problem solving activities, even some that earn money for children, into the rigors of training in reading, writing, research, speaking, and critical thinking, we will have taken a giant step toward equipping our youth to prevent and deal creatively with conflict.
[02:48.760 --> 02:57.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: Jeffrey Canada, program director for the Reedland Center for Children and Families, says after-school programs should be extended into the late evenings and weekends.
[02:57.840 --> 03:03.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: If professionals are going to deliver services that reduce youth violence, you must spend significant time with the youth.
[03:03.880 --> 03:20.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: That way appropriate role modeling can occur, disputes can be worked out, non-violent coping skills can be taught, and violence when it occurs can be dealt with on the spot instead of escalating to the use of weapons or exploding into the school the next day.
[03:20.660 --> 03:26.720]  [SPEAKER_25]: The experts say students learn how to deal with conflict not only from adults but also from their classmates.
[03:26.720 --> 03:31.320]  [SPEAKER_25]: They say peer mediation programs have drastically cut discipline problems.
[03:31.480 --> 03:35.560]  [SPEAKER_25]: But even for the kids who do get in trouble, the experts say there is hope.
[03:36.320 --> 03:39.920]  [SPEAKER_25]: Aftercare is a city program to follow up on kids with juvenile records.
[03:40.420 --> 03:47.900]  [SPEAKER_25]: Lawrence Murray, assistant commissioner for Aftercare, says the program has helped thousands of children since it started seven years ago.
[03:48.340 --> 03:57.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: Aftercare works with children released home from detention to identify the kind of help they need and refers them to appropriate community-based agencies that can provide that help.
[03:57.480 --> 04:03.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: It then follows each child for four to six months to monitor his or her progress and offer supportive counseling.
[04:04.680 --> 04:16.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: Because we recognize that education is necessary for a child to be successful and that truancy is often a problem among the children who come through our system, Aftercare works to get kids back into school and attending regularly.
[04:16.960 --> 04:23.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: Currently, over 90% of the children enrolled in Aftercare are enrolled in school and attending.
[04:23.980 --> 04:31.040]  [SPEAKER_25]: The amount of money the city will give programs like Aftercare will be determined in a youth services budget hearing beginning in two weeks.
[04:31.400 --> 04:33.940]  [SPEAKER_25]: For WBAI News, I'm Andrew Richter.
[04:34.340 --> 04:42.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: And finally tonight, the city's largest public employee's pension fund is moving to end nearly all investments in companies operating in South Africa.
[04:42.400 --> 04:51.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mayor Dinkins says the New York City Employees' Retirement System Board will vote tomorrow to divest some $600 million in stock in 40 companies.
[04:51.380 --> 04:57.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: The action will set in motion the final and strictest phase of an anti-apartheid plan begun by the city five years ago.
[04:57.980 --> 05:00.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: Dinkins is urging other city pension funds to follow suit.
[05:01.080 --> 05:07.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: At a news conference today, he said it was time to redouble efforts against South Africa's white supremacist policies.
[05:11.030 --> 05:14.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's some of the news for Thursday, March 15, 1990.
[05:15.350 --> 05:17.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: The news was engineered by Dred Scott Keyes.
[05:17.910 --> 05:23.610]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was produced with Jenny Bourne, Julie Cohen, Evelyn Tully-Costa, Andy Richter, and Richard Vecchio.
[05:23.850 --> 05:29.470]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Amy Goodman in New York with Don Rush in Washington for WBAI listener-supported news.
[05:51.630 --> 05:58.240]  [SPEAKER_27]: No, that's not our new theme, but it's just something I haven't defined and brought back a lot of memories, you know, watching late-night TV.
[05:58.500 --> 05:59.780]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, it's late-night radio, folks.
[05:59.980 --> 06:01.660]  [SPEAKER_27]: Late-night live radio.
[06:01.900 --> 06:05.920]  [SPEAKER_27]: Here on WBAI in New York, it's Emmanuel Goldstein with The Fifth Corner.
[06:06.370 --> 06:08.650]  [SPEAKER_27]: And we've got quite a lot of ground to cover tonight.
[06:08.650 --> 06:12.120]  [SPEAKER_27]: We've got the general manager of WFMU as our guest.
[06:12.120 --> 06:18.400]  [SPEAKER_27]: We'll be talking about non-commercial radio, community radio, dare I say it, fascist radio.
[06:18.400 --> 06:20.400]  [SPEAKER_27]: All kinds of neat things like that.
[06:20.580 --> 06:27.720]  [SPEAKER_27]: And we'll be taking your calls, so stay with us here on listener-supported WBAI 99.5 FM.
[06:28.520 --> 06:34.920]  [SPEAKER_27]: Before we go into our topic, I want to play something that I just pieced together today, in fact.
[06:34.920 --> 06:40.660]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's a song from the past, 1970, and the lyrics are just so, so...
[06:40.660 --> 06:46.450]  [SPEAKER_27]: Oh, I don't know, they're just so today, I guess, with what's going on with the environment and things like that.
[06:46.650 --> 06:54.780]  [SPEAKER_27]: A song from Roger Waters that came off an album, an album entitled The Body, and very rare.
[06:54.860 --> 06:58.280]  [SPEAKER_27]: If anybody has this, I have to personally commend you for finding it.
[06:58.280 --> 07:03.040]  [SPEAKER_27]: But this is a song called Breathe here on WBAI.
[07:03.160 --> 07:03.840]  [SPEAKER_27]: We'll be back in a minute.
[07:47.730 --> 07:50.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'll be back.
[07:50.530 --> 07:51.590]  Let's go.
[07:56.140 --> 07:56.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, that's good.
[07:57.760 --> 08:02.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Spidey fingers of industry reach the sky.
[08:06.030 --> 08:10.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Brick upon brick, stone upon stone they glow.
[08:14.070 --> 08:57.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Choking the atmosphere, oh, so incredibly slowly Sulfur and carbon and hydrogen, sulfide and lime Favour corrosion and cover your cities with grime Something is killing the land before your eyes And the sunshine is not too vain Could be the insane in
[09:15.130 --> 09:38.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mushrooming home in a crowd I'm alone Close your eyes, lie still You are a mountain stream and I am a hill Hey,
[09:48.460 --> 10:05.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: there is a field of blossoming bees And you mow on hay Breathe in the air Breathe in the air
[11:18.430 --> 11:36.170]  [SPEAKER_27]: And even if you are fortunate enough to have that record There's no way you could have heard that version of that song Because that's something that we made up tonight And pieced together instrumentals and vocals And all kinds of things like that So it would have a beginning and an end Off a record called The Body Roger Waters,
[11:36.290 --> 12:04.230]  [SPEAKER_27]: Ron Giesen And a song called Breathe Here on WBAI And tonight it's one of those Self-referential programs, I suppose About two weeks ago We talked about non-commercial radio Various problems and challenges And all kinds of things going on In non-commercial radio Usually we talk about radio When we do these shows And just commercial radio Versus non-commercial radio But now it seems that Within
[12:04.230 --> 12:14.850]  [SPEAKER_27]: non-commercial radio itself There are these forces That are seeking to actively Destroy other elements Of non-commercial radio Now, just what are we talking about?
[12:14.850 --> 12:17.690]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, we're going to get into that in quite a lot of detail.
[12:18.030 --> 12:28.830]  [SPEAKER_27]: First, I'd like to take a look at the program guide from another radio station, WFMU, in New Jersey, Uppsala College.
[12:29.390 --> 12:34.250]  [SPEAKER_27]: They're at 91.1 FM on the same FM dial that we're on.
[12:34.250 --> 12:35.970]  [SPEAKER_27]: In fact, just a few numbers down.
[12:36.730 --> 12:44.730]  [SPEAKER_27]: And they put out a program guide very recently, and it goes into some detail as far as what's going on with that radio station.
[12:45.410 --> 12:47.110]  [SPEAKER_27]: And folks, it's scary.
[12:47.310 --> 12:56.810]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's really scary to hear the kind of things that are going on, the threats, just the bad things that are happening.
[12:57.910 --> 13:01.010]  [SPEAKER_27]: Let's get into this, and then we'll talk to the general manager of that station.
[13:01.010 --> 13:05.450]  [SPEAKER_27]: We'll talk to you and see if we can reach any conclusions about all of this.
[13:06.410 --> 13:14.490]  [SPEAKER_27]: The title of the letter, the main letter in this program guide, The Campaign to Destroy WFMU, Plus Some Good News.
[13:15.410 --> 13:27.850]  [SPEAKER_27]: WFMU ended the decade of greed with a year that provided enough disasters to destroy us several times over, but during which we managed to pick up and move two decades' worth of radio into our new custom-designed home.
[13:28.170 --> 13:36.490]  [SPEAKER_27]: The year-long project of designing and building new studios was punctuated in the spring by eight weeks of ghoulish bad luck and technical disasters.
[13:36.890 --> 13:46.170]  [SPEAKER_27]: The incredible success of last April's marathon made it possible not only to physically move the station, but to restructure it so that it might run more smoothly in the future.
[13:47.010 --> 13:54.510]  [SPEAKER_27]: Then, in the same month, a problem emerged that made all the fried transmitters in the world seem about as serious as a stubbed toe.
[13:55.190 --> 14:04.670]  [SPEAKER_27]: Ever since, the situation here has felt like we won 15 million bucks in the lottery, then on the way to the bank, found out that the funny lump on our side might be malignant.
[14:05.630 --> 14:09.930]  [SPEAKER_27]: Throughout it all, we haven't been able to publish LCD, which is the name of the program guide.
[14:10.130 --> 14:12.950]  [SPEAKER_27]: This is the first issue since October of 1988.
[14:13.510 --> 14:16.110]  [SPEAKER_27]: The problem hasn't been one of money as much of time.
[14:16.310 --> 14:24.990]  [SPEAKER_27]: We're not as organized as we might seem, and with too much work falling into too few hands, it was necessary to choose between the station's health and our promise to publish LCD.
[14:25.390 --> 14:30.650]  [SPEAKER_27]: I apologize to those of you who frittered away 1989, waiting for the issue that never arrived.
[14:30.850 --> 14:31.730]  [SPEAKER_27]: But don't worry.
[14:31.970 --> 14:37.170]  [SPEAKER_27]: The plan now is to bring it back from this plane of existence and issue into it the breath of life.
[14:38.210 --> 14:39.610]  [SPEAKER_27]: Okay, first, the good news.
[14:39.790 --> 14:40.430]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's simpler.
[14:40.570 --> 14:45.110]  [SPEAKER_27]: We're in the new house, and we managed to do it nearly on time and well within budget.
[14:45.550 --> 14:53.830]  [SPEAKER_27]: Unpacking all the boxes and getting settled in may take a few more months, but the project that at times seemed too ambitious for the likes of us is almost completed.
[14:54.390 --> 14:59.210]  [SPEAKER_27]: Endless thanks to the listeners whose contributions of money, talent, labor, and love made it all possible.
[14:59.630 --> 15:05.630]  [SPEAKER_27]: Over 200 people helped out during the last year, but there are several who must be singled out for praise.
[15:05.630 --> 15:10.610]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, no offense to them, but we are going to skip over that because we want to get into the main thrust of all this.
[15:11.150 --> 15:16.170]  [SPEAKER_27]: The move involves so many listeners that we've almost become a true volunteer organization again.
[15:16.950 --> 15:22.490]  [SPEAKER_27]: To meet so many different people who love the station makes the phenomenon of WFMU almost tangible.
[15:23.210 --> 15:29.770]  [SPEAKER_27]: The energy that this project infused the station with affected other areas of our operation, and it should keep us going for some time.
[15:30.910 --> 15:33.370]  [SPEAKER_27]: Which is a good thing, because we're going to need it.
[15:33.370 --> 15:41.190]  [SPEAKER_27]: Just as we're finishing up the gargantuan task of building a new station, we face the most serious problem that has ever threatened us.
[15:41.830 --> 15:57.430]  [SPEAKER_27]: Last April, two radio stations filed a complaint with the Federal Communications Commission saying that WFMU's service area has been miscalculated since 1962, and that because of this, we should drop our power to less than half of what it is now.
[15:57.430 --> 16:09.950]  [SPEAKER_27]: Our opponents claim that a 1962 error has caused our signal to overlap slightly with theirs, and that these tiny amounts of overlap, a total of about four square miles, must be eliminated.
[16:10.470 --> 16:21.130]  [SPEAKER_27]: In order to achieve this goal, they are proposing that the FCC immediately reduce WFMU's power from 1,440 to 650 watts.
[16:21.130 --> 16:27.650]  [SPEAKER_27]: They are unconcerned that doing this would strip WFMU's signal from Manhattan, Brooklyn, and huge chunks of New Jersey.
[16:28.350 --> 16:39.870]  [SPEAKER_27]: Their engineering statements make no mention of the hundreds of thousands of listeners who, after enjoying and supporting WFMU for as long as a quarter of a century, would suddenly lose the station for good.
[16:40.410 --> 16:47.210]  [SPEAKER_27]: And their legal arguments ignore the fact that if our power were cut by more than half, we would no longer be able to support ourselves.
[16:47.710 --> 16:55.230]  [SPEAKER_27]: Missing from the pages and pages of charts, tables, and maps is the fact that losing half our listeners would mean the extinction of WFMU.
[16:56.530 --> 17:07.050]  [SPEAKER_27]: At the time, I saw this attack as a financial burden and an administrative headache, but I felt that if we approached it responsibly and hired broadcast lawyers and consulting engineers, we would prevail.
[17:07.290 --> 17:17.970]  [SPEAKER_27]: After all, we have been broadcasting this way for 25 years, and cutting back now would deprive a large population of a service they've long relied on, something the FCC does not like to do.
[17:18.370 --> 17:30.790]  [SPEAKER_27]: But by last November, it became clear that our opponents are well-funded and intent on decimating our coverage area so that their stations, already huge, can expand even further.
[17:31.210 --> 17:42.190]  [SPEAKER_27]: Their lawyers and engineers are portraying us as reckless usurpers of the air, thieves who have buried their treasure for 25 years, and who now must be brought to swift justice.
[17:43.190 --> 17:50.770]  [SPEAKER_27]: In reality, the mistake on our license was contained in a faulty study conducted by RCA, then a reputable broadcasting consultant.
[17:51.250 --> 18:05.610]  [SPEAKER_27]: The error occurred, not our antenna height, concerned not our antenna height, but topographic measurements of the surrounding terrain, and nobody at the station had any reason or the means to question the RCA study.
[18:06.010 --> 18:08.510]  [SPEAKER_27]: Even the FCC did not notice the mistake.
[18:08.510 --> 18:16.810]  [SPEAKER_27]: Our 1962 license application was approved in 1965, and the FCC has renewed our license numerous times since then.
[18:17.630 --> 18:24.870]  [SPEAKER_27]: Nobody noticed the mistake until these two non-commercial stations went looking for a way that they could expand their own coverage areas.
[18:25.090 --> 18:29.730]  [SPEAKER_27]: They pulled our files in Washington, did their own analysis, and discovered the error.
[18:30.110 --> 18:36.990]  [SPEAKER_27]: They promptly reported the mistake to the FCC, who ordered us to file an application to correct the discrepancy in our license.
[18:37.570 --> 18:38.610]  [SPEAKER_27]: This we did.
[18:38.910 --> 18:45.210]  [SPEAKER_27]: Contrary to what these three stations are saying to the press, this mistake does not mean that WFMU is breaking the law.
[18:45.950 --> 18:50.890]  [SPEAKER_27]: The FCC has jurisdiction over this matter, and we have complied with everything they have told us to do.
[18:51.030 --> 18:52.710]  [SPEAKER_27]: We will continue to do so.
[18:54.010 --> 19:02.650]  [SPEAKER_27]: In the spirit of broadcast camaraderie, and in an attempt to spend us into the ground, our opponents courted four other stations to oppose our application.
[19:03.250 --> 19:08.690]  [SPEAKER_27]: Three declined the offer, but one of these stations merrily joined in, making it three against one.
[19:09.370 --> 19:13.790]  [SPEAKER_27]: Together, our three adversaries have over 80,000 watts of power.
[19:13.970 --> 19:16.470]  [SPEAKER_27]: We have 1,440.
[19:17.210 --> 19:23.990]  [SPEAKER_27]: Cumulatively, the three of them have an annual operating budget of over $2 million, much of which comes in federal and institutional support.
[19:24.570 --> 19:30.030]  [SPEAKER_27]: Our annual budget is $135,000, comprised entirely of listener contributions.
[19:30.610 --> 19:35.170]  [SPEAKER_27]: With odds like this, what is proper or ethical becomes academic.
[19:36.010 --> 19:44.690]  [SPEAKER_27]: I won't name the stations behind the attack here to prevent even the possibility of a libel charge, something our opponents would probably stoop to despite the accuracy of what I'm saying.
[19:45.090 --> 19:49.070]  [SPEAKER_27]: We're also not mentioning the stations by name on the air for the same reason.
[19:49.790 --> 19:52.290]  [SPEAKER_27]: Now, if you're angry and want to do something about it, that's good.
[19:52.370 --> 19:53.650]  [SPEAKER_27]: We were hoping for that kind of reaction.
[19:54.090 --> 20:01.830]  [SPEAKER_27]: Our lawyers and technical consultants may help us, and they are absolutely necessary in this fight, but ultimately, they won't save WFMU.
[20:03.430 --> 20:05.530]  [SPEAKER_27]: WFMU will save WFMU.
[20:06.970 --> 20:22.810]  [SPEAKER_27]: Now, it goes into a bit of specifics as to what to do, but I think since we have Ken Friedman, the general manager of WFMU, here in the studios of WBAI, we might as well just defer to him and see where this all stands at the moment.
[20:22.930 --> 20:24.830]  [SPEAKER_27]: Ken, welcome to WBAI.
[20:25.130 --> 20:25.570]  [SPEAKER_27]: Thanks.
[20:25.830 --> 20:28.170]  [SPEAKER_27]: Anything new since that letter came out?
[20:29.190 --> 20:31.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: Since that program guide was published?
[20:31.630 --> 20:33.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's a whole bunch of new stuff.
[20:35.430 --> 20:40.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: Since then, FMU's gotten a big firm with a big communications department in Washington, D.C.
[20:40.470 --> 20:46.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: to take the case on pro bono, so it seems like we'll probably be able to hang in as long as it takes.
[20:46.750 --> 20:51.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's looking like it's going to be a real long time before it resolves itself.
[20:51.470 --> 20:52.530]  [SPEAKER_27]: When did this first start?
[20:52.670 --> 20:54.650]  [SPEAKER_27]: When was the first inkling of trouble?
[20:54.710 --> 20:55.710]  [SPEAKER_27]: February of 89.
[20:56.210 --> 20:57.830]  [SPEAKER_27]: So it was just over a year ago.
[20:58.370 --> 20:58.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[20:59.510 --> 21:09.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: February of 89, we got this letter from CTI, an engineering firm representing WKTW down at the Jersey Shore and WSHU in Connecticut.
[21:10.630 --> 21:17.790]  [SPEAKER_27]: WSHU being the national public radio station in Connecticut that recently has been expanding, seems all over the place.
[21:18.010 --> 21:19.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Trying to, yeah.
[21:19.390 --> 21:19.590]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[21:19.790 --> 21:23.290]  [SPEAKER_27]: What is, in your opinion, happening to non-commercial radio?
[21:23.570 --> 21:30.970]  [SPEAKER_27]: I never thought such a thing could be possible where other stations would be trying to take over the frequencies held by existing stations.
[21:31.690 --> 21:33.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, public radio is eating itself.
[21:34.630 --> 21:53.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot, what you have in the non-commercial end of the dial, 88 to 92 FM, are huge non-commercial stations, sometimes larger than commercial stations, right next to, in terms of frequency, small college stations, such as WFMU, although WFMU is probably medium-sized for a college station.
[21:54.290 --> 21:56.790]  [SPEAKER_27]: Now, WFMU has been on the air since 1962?
[21:57.390 --> 21:58.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: Since 58, actually.
[21:58.970 --> 21:59.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[21:59.590 --> 21:59.810]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[22:00.130 --> 22:02.790]  [SPEAKER_27]: And you just recently moved into that house.
[22:03.230 --> 22:05.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we built ourselves new studios and offices.
[22:05.490 --> 22:06.110]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[22:06.970 --> 22:14.750]  [SPEAKER_27]: So, you're not looked upon as the kind of station that is a national public radio station, I suppose.
[22:15.310 --> 22:17.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, we're not an NPR station.
[22:17.490 --> 22:17.770]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[22:17.770 --> 22:19.630]  [SPEAKER_27]: But you're not looked upon in the same way.
[22:19.850 --> 22:23.630]  [SPEAKER_27]: You're kind of run by a bunch of students or volunteers.
[22:24.230 --> 22:24.370]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah.
[22:24.370 --> 22:25.710]  [SPEAKER_27]: More like WBAI, I suppose.
[22:26.050 --> 22:28.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, FMU is kind of a musical WBAI.
[22:28.750 --> 22:29.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[22:29.270 --> 22:32.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of talk on FMU also, but much more music.
[22:32.410 --> 22:32.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[22:33.290 --> 22:42.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: And probably, we probably reflect our politics a lot more through music and through what we try to do with radio than as directly as WBAI does.
[22:43.010 --> 22:44.190]  [SPEAKER_27]: You're on 24 hours a day.
[22:44.310 --> 22:44.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[22:44.970 --> 22:45.190]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[22:45.410 --> 22:47.830]  [SPEAKER_27]: Now, your frequency is 91.1.
[22:48.110 --> 22:51.030]  [SPEAKER_27]: That's the same frequency as WSHU, which is in Connecticut.
[22:51.330 --> 22:51.530]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah.
[22:51.810 --> 22:52.710]  [SPEAKER_27]: And, uh...
[22:52.710 --> 22:54.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the same frequency as WKTW.
[22:55.250 --> 22:56.010]  [SPEAKER_27]: Which is where?
[22:56.270 --> 22:58.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: In Toms River, New Jersey.
[22:58.630 --> 22:58.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: I see.
[22:59.050 --> 22:59.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: And at the Jersey Shore.
[22:59.870 --> 23:03.010]  [SPEAKER_27]: Now, I should point out that this is, uh...
[23:03.010 --> 23:04.750]  [SPEAKER_27]: This is not an isolated case.
[23:04.950 --> 23:08.470]  [SPEAKER_27]: There's all kinds of other crazy things going on in the non-commercial radio world.
[23:09.430 --> 23:09.910]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh...
[23:09.910 --> 23:12.910]  [SPEAKER_27]: WSHU also has incurred the wrath of, uh...
[23:12.910 --> 23:14.750]  [SPEAKER_27]: WUSB out in, uh...
[23:14.750 --> 23:16.590]  [SPEAKER_27]: Stony Brook, Long Island, uh...
[23:16.590 --> 23:18.970]  [SPEAKER_27]: for wanting to operate a station at, uh...
[23:18.970 --> 23:26.610]  [SPEAKER_27]: 89.9, which is adjacent to their 90.1 frequency, operate that station on Long Island, uh...
[23:26.610 --> 23:29.290]  [SPEAKER_27]: which would take away quite a few listeners out there.
[23:29.670 --> 23:30.750]  [SPEAKER_27]: Also, uh...
[23:30.750 --> 23:33.650]  [SPEAKER_27]: this WPKN, Bridgeport, Connecticut, which, uh...
[23:33.650 --> 23:43.030]  [SPEAKER_27]: I understand has come within a hair's breath of being taken over by another public radio entity in Connecticut, Connecticut Public Radio.
[23:43.750 --> 23:44.290]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh...
[23:44.290 --> 23:45.030]  [SPEAKER_27]: Now, that's, uh...
[23:45.030 --> 23:46.370]  [SPEAKER_27]: that's different than WSHU.
[23:46.470 --> 23:53.750]  [SPEAKER_27]: WSHU is not a Connecticut Public Radio station, but I understand Connecticut Public Radio and WSHU don't get along all that well.
[23:53.830 --> 23:56.610]  [SPEAKER_27]: They're both NPR affiliates, but they're sort of, uh...
[23:56.610 --> 23:57.950]  [SPEAKER_27]: competing with each other, I guess.
[23:58.450 --> 23:59.050]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh...
[23:59.050 --> 24:08.230]  [SPEAKER_27]: Both Connecticut Public Radio and WSHU, supposedly, from what I've heard, are interested in starting stations on Long Island as well, uh...
[24:08.230 --> 24:13.650]  [SPEAKER_27]: right next to or on top of existing community stations like WUSB out there.
[24:13.930 --> 24:16.470]  [SPEAKER_27]: And what this has done is, uh...
[24:16.470 --> 24:17.810]  [SPEAKER_27]: it's made a lot of people think.
[24:18.350 --> 24:19.370]  [SPEAKER_27]: What's, uh...
[24:19.370 --> 24:21.350]  [SPEAKER_27]: what's happening to public radio?
[24:22.410 --> 24:24.690]  [SPEAKER_27]: Have they gone imperialist or something?
[24:24.690 --> 24:28.210]  [SPEAKER_27]: We thought the biggest threat to non-commercial radio was, uh...
[24:28.210 --> 24:37.630]  [SPEAKER_27]: perhaps the religious broadcasters who seemed to be popping up left and right and taking valuable non-commercial radio space by selling their particular products.
[24:38.430 --> 24:38.970]  [SPEAKER_27]: Um...
[24:38.970 --> 24:45.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, what you see happening is non-commercial radio stations behaving exactly like commercial entities.
[24:45.610 --> 24:45.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[24:46.390 --> 24:46.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um...
[24:46.990 --> 24:54.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: but that sort of makes sense because stylistically and in terms of their format, they very much resemble commercial radio stations.
[24:55.110 --> 24:55.390]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, they...
[24:55.390 --> 24:57.450]  [SPEAKER_27]: they have tons of money, these stations.
[24:57.450 --> 24:59.170]  [SPEAKER_27]: They get funded from, uh...
[24:59.170 --> 25:00.190]  [SPEAKER_27]: from Washington, D.C.
[25:00.950 --> 25:01.350]  [SPEAKER_27]: There's...
[25:01.350 --> 25:02.130]  [SPEAKER_27]: there's a requirement.
[25:02.130 --> 25:03.150]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's called the, uh...
[25:03.150 --> 25:05.170]  [SPEAKER_27]: the CPB requirement that, uh...
[25:05.170 --> 25:05.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the government...
[25:05.890 --> 25:08.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: the government won't give you money until you're big enough to deserve it.
[25:08.990 --> 25:09.470]  [SPEAKER_27]: Right, right, exactly.
[25:09.530 --> 25:13.310]  [SPEAKER_27]: You have to have five full-time employees and, uh...
[25:13.310 --> 25:14.730]  [SPEAKER_27]: I think it's five or is it seven?
[25:14.930 --> 25:15.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: Five.
[25:15.410 --> 25:15.570]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's five, okay.
[25:15.570 --> 25:16.290]  [SPEAKER_27]: They just lowered it.
[25:16.810 --> 25:21.830]  [SPEAKER_27]: All right, five full-time employees and once you get that then you can get all this money from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.
[25:21.830 --> 25:27.670]  [SPEAKER_27]: If you have less than that you're too small and you can't get any money which means that you stay small.
[25:28.070 --> 25:28.290]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's...
[25:28.290 --> 25:28.910]  [SPEAKER_27]: it's kind of...
[25:28.910 --> 25:30.770]  [SPEAKER_27]: kind of reflects our economic system I suppose.
[25:32.430 --> 25:32.950]  Um...
[25:32.950 --> 25:36.590]  [SPEAKER_27]: Now, what is going on with WFMU?
[25:36.710 --> 25:36.930]  [SPEAKER_27]: Are...
[25:36.930 --> 25:38.830]  [SPEAKER_27]: are the listeners outraged by this?
[25:38.930 --> 25:39.590]  [SPEAKER_27]: What has been happening?
[25:40.330 --> 25:40.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh...
[25:40.650 --> 25:43.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the listeners are outraged and, uh...
[25:43.430 --> 25:45.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: they've really come to our aid and...
[25:45.830 --> 25:50.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think the entire broadcast community has been hearing about this and, uh...
[25:50.090 --> 25:55.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think we have the support of a lot of stations all around the area here and all around the country.
[25:55.770 --> 25:55.970]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[25:56.210 --> 25:57.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, um...
[25:57.170 --> 25:59.690]  [SPEAKER_27]: Has this case gotten out to the rest of the country?
[25:59.810 --> 26:01.090]  [SPEAKER_27]: Do people know what's going on?
[26:01.430 --> 26:02.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, within...
[26:02.270 --> 26:04.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: within community radio circles right now, yeah.
[26:05.110 --> 26:05.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[26:05.930 --> 26:14.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and there's been a tremendous outpouring and it looks like FMU is going to be able to at least hang in there to defend our right to exist.
[26:14.930 --> 26:39.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and that was not always so certain because when this first started happening and we started looking down the road at legal costs that at first seemed like $15,000 at the worst then $30,000 and now we have spent $100,000 just defending our right to exist for the last year and the last fiscal year ended our entire operating budget was $130,000
[26:39.750 --> 26:48.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: and we don't have any support outside of listener contributions we get no grants, no institutional support from Uppsala College Any underwriting?
[26:48.970 --> 26:53.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: No underwriting we've always rejected underwriting on principle So, where is this money coming from?
[26:53.830 --> 26:55.030]  [SPEAKER_27]: Are you asking for more from the listeners?
[26:55.210 --> 27:21.630]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yes, we are going to ask for much more when we start fundraising a week from Monday on March 26th Now, WPKN the station in Bridgeport, Connecticut they, last year they lost all of their funding from the University of Bridgeport which is a school that's in horrible financial shape from what I hear and they face a big threat well they faced a big threat then they were originally going to ask for
[27:21.630 --> 27:38.990]  [SPEAKER_27]: about $30,000 during their last marathon and suddenly they lost their budget they had to ask for a lot more the future of WPKN was at stake and they appealed to the listeners and the listeners really responded they raised over $100,000 in one month Yeah,
[27:39.110 --> 28:05.170]  [SPEAKER_27]: it looks like PKN is going to be alright Looks like well they have the support of the listeners there's no question about that now PKN is kind of more of a musical station I guess most stations are more musical than WBAI There's a lot of similarities between PKN and FMU Yeah So then again though they face the problem the ever-present problem of bigger stations surrounding them wanting to take them
[28:05.170 --> 28:28.130]  [SPEAKER_27]: over absorb them and it's felt that these stations might actually challenge their license which comes up for renewal this year which seems so incredible When you think of the community service, the true community service that WPKN performs, they have one radio show that's aimed at prisoners inside Connecticut's prisons.
[28:28.290 --> 28:33.510]  [SPEAKER_27]: They have all kinds of children's programming and traditional folk and all that kind of thing.
[28:34.010 --> 28:41.030]  [SPEAKER_27]: And here you have these stations that play the same thing that all the other stations around the country are playing at the same time.
[28:41.030 --> 28:42.470]  [SPEAKER_27]: They just take it off the satellite.
[28:43.290 --> 28:46.870]  [SPEAKER_27]: You walk into these stations and there's maybe four people there.
[28:47.390 --> 28:49.070]  [SPEAKER_27]: And no one else is doing anything.
[28:49.230 --> 28:49.870]  [SPEAKER_27]: There's no production.
[28:50.050 --> 28:54.510]  [SPEAKER_27]: You walk into a station like yours and there's 50 people around yelling and screaming and producing things.
[28:54.730 --> 28:56.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes there's nobody there.
[28:57.350 --> 28:59.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes there's only machines there.
[28:59.410 --> 29:00.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't that illegal?
[29:00.130 --> 29:01.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: Don't they have to have at least one person?
[29:01.970 --> 29:03.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're supposed to.
[29:04.690 --> 29:07.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: But there can be one person who walks in once an hour.
[29:08.650 --> 29:10.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: Or even less frequently than that.
[29:10.490 --> 29:18.070]  [SPEAKER_27]: There seems to be a proliferation of new non-commercial stations that are simply translators or simulcasters.
[29:18.210 --> 29:19.290]  [SPEAKER_27]: And there's nobody actually there.
[29:19.450 --> 29:22.350]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's just a satellite dish rebroadcasting another station's signal.
[29:22.530 --> 29:24.310]  [SPEAKER_27]: We had the same thing out on Long Island.
[29:24.410 --> 29:26.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: With a tone that turns the transmitter on and off.
[29:27.110 --> 29:27.370]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah.
[29:27.530 --> 29:30.250]  [SPEAKER_27]: And sometimes it messes up and some funny things happen.
[29:31.350 --> 29:36.730]  [SPEAKER_27]: But there's a station out in Long Island now that rebroadcasts a religious station in New Jersey.
[29:37.510 --> 29:37.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[29:37.910 --> 29:45.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's been another big problem that has been around non-commercial radio for the last five or so years.
[29:45.770 --> 29:46.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe even longer.
[29:46.850 --> 29:57.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's been the Moody Bible Institute, a group of religious broadcasters, trying to grab up all the available translators, which are low-power repeater transmitters for stations.
[29:58.570 --> 30:04.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: And normally they're just supposed to be used to rebroadcast the main signal to fill in an area.
[30:04.950 --> 30:10.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the Moody Bible Institute has been trying to set up a network by grabbing these things up all over the country.
[30:10.350 --> 30:13.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: And public radio fought that.
[30:13.050 --> 30:13.710]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[30:14.130 --> 30:15.650]  [SPEAKER_27]: Only because they wanted to do it themselves.
[30:16.010 --> 30:16.050]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah.
[30:17.590 --> 30:20.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: That problem is also, you know, sort of on hold.
[30:21.010 --> 30:23.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: They worked out a compromise.
[30:23.470 --> 30:27.370]  [SPEAKER_27]: So, what do you think is the state of community radio today?
[30:27.630 --> 30:31.970]  [SPEAKER_27]: How many community radio stations are there in this area that you can see?
[30:33.750 --> 30:38.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's really hard to say because it's hard to say exactly what community radio is.
[30:38.590 --> 30:45.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's, you know, there's probably three to five community-oriented stations in this area.
[30:46.410 --> 30:46.610]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[30:47.090 --> 30:49.550]  [SPEAKER_27]: And is that down over the last ten years?
[30:49.570 --> 30:51.410]  [SPEAKER_27]: Or are we pretty much holding our own?
[30:51.570 --> 30:55.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, actually, over the last ten years, it's probably going up.
[30:55.710 --> 31:08.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, I think a lot more college stations around the country have taken on a lot more responsible role in terms of community programming and looking beyond the dorms, which is what the FCC wanted to happen with college radio.
[31:08.590 --> 31:11.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I think that's happened, which is good.
[31:11.630 --> 31:11.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[31:12.870 --> 31:13.430]  [SPEAKER_27]: All right.
[31:13.490 --> 31:15.570]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, we're going to take some phone calls.
[31:15.710 --> 31:19.790]  [SPEAKER_27]: Our telephone number is 212-279-3400.
[31:21.690 --> 31:35.550]  [SPEAKER_27]: And we'd like to hear what your feelings are about non-commercial radio, about commercial radio, the state of either one of them, and maybe a station in your area that has been affected by all this.
[31:35.550 --> 31:42.990]  [SPEAKER_27]: If you have any comments about the WFMU situation or any of the other radio stations we mentioned, or even WBAI, you know, we're...
[31:43.510 --> 31:51.090]  [SPEAKER_27]: The good thing about community radio is you can talk about other radio stations, which is something that you'd never be able to get away with on a commercial station.
[31:51.310 --> 31:56.390]  [SPEAKER_27]: Because we're not... well, at least stations like this, we're not competing with the other stations.
[31:56.390 --> 32:00.970]  [SPEAKER_27]: Um, what Ken mentioned before, these stations are competing.
[32:01.170 --> 32:04.450]  [SPEAKER_27]: They're acting like professional or commercial radio stations.
[32:04.870 --> 32:06.810]  [SPEAKER_27]: And they're... they're...
[32:08.570 --> 32:10.770]  [SPEAKER_27]: almost... almost airing commercials.
[32:11.150 --> 32:12.590]  [SPEAKER_27]: Not quite at that stage yet.
[32:12.870 --> 32:13.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well, certainly they are.
[32:14.090 --> 32:15.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: What's an underwriting announcement?
[32:16.110 --> 32:16.270]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[32:16.270 --> 32:17.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a commercial.
[32:17.610 --> 32:19.350]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, it's not a crazy-eddy commercial, though.
[32:19.350 --> 32:21.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, they're moving in that direction.
[32:21.970 --> 32:22.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[32:22.090 --> 32:29.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Enhanced underwriting, you know, the laws concerning what is allowable in an underwriting announcement have loosened up progressively.
[32:29.810 --> 32:30.030]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[32:30.090 --> 32:30.870]  [SPEAKER_27]: Where do you see that going?
[32:31.810 --> 32:33.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, where it's gone.
[32:33.390 --> 32:34.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Underwriting has turned into commercials.
[32:35.150 --> 32:35.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're just not calling...
[32:35.670 --> 32:39.950]  [SPEAKER_27]: So are they going to eliminate non-commercial radio altogether and just say you can do whatever you want?
[32:40.610 --> 32:46.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I thought they were going to do that a couple of years ago, but it hasn't happened yet, so perhaps it won't.
[32:46.370 --> 32:48.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: It really looked like it was moving in that direction.
[32:48.490 --> 32:57.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, a couple of years ago, there were all these editorials and calls for Channel 13 to just, you know, call a spade a spade and become a commercial television station.
[32:58.310 --> 32:58.470]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[32:59.690 --> 32:59.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know.
[33:00.830 --> 33:02.470]  [SPEAKER_27]: 212-279-3400.
[33:02.910 --> 33:03.930]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh, no speeches, please.
[33:04.070 --> 33:08.570]  [SPEAKER_27]: Just, uh, give us your thoughts, comments, and, uh, let us know your feelings.
[33:09.230 --> 33:09.870]  [SPEAKER_27]: Good evening.
[33:12.130 --> 33:13.090]  [SPEAKER_27]: Hello, is anyone there?
[33:13.990 --> 33:14.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello?
[33:14.630 --> 33:15.090]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yes, go ahead.
[33:15.510 --> 33:21.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, well, I'm very concerned about the fact that the FCC couldn't figure things out, but I guess there's still an awful lot to know.
[33:22.010 --> 33:23.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, there's...
[33:23.050 --> 33:25.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: However, I'm also very concerned about WBAI.
[33:26.290 --> 33:28.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, this is Monroe, by the way.
[33:28.490 --> 33:28.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, Ken?
[33:29.290 --> 33:29.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[33:29.870 --> 33:38.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: Listen, um, I don't know to what extent, uh, knowledge of what goes on in WBAI WBAI is known in the field, though, you know, possibly you've listened, and...
[33:38.570 --> 33:41.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's really a problem for a listener.
[33:41.090 --> 33:43.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: I have no way of knowing how many calls are coming.
[33:43.210 --> 33:56.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: And naturally, in an environment that has millions of people who could be, uh, calling or potential subscribers, I was shocked to see that Andrew Phillips says that there are only 13,000, uh, subscribers to WBAI.
[33:56.910 --> 33:57.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Mm-hmm.
[33:57.830 --> 34:01.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, you know, I won't ask you, although I should ask you, are you a subscriber to WBAI?
[34:01.990 --> 34:04.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, of course, you'll say, well, you know...
[34:04.470 --> 34:05.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's, uh, it's ironic.
[34:05.670 --> 34:05.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: No.
[34:06.590 --> 34:07.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not.
[34:07.190 --> 34:08.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not a subscriber to WBAI.
[34:08.990 --> 34:09.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: Huh?
[34:09.570 --> 34:11.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not a subscriber to WBAI.
[34:11.310 --> 34:12.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's, it's ironical.
[34:12.570 --> 34:13.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're such a wonderful station.
[34:13.930 --> 34:18.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: See, I, I always preface my remarks, really, by saying this is a wonderful station.
[34:18.690 --> 34:20.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: There are so many important programs.
[34:20.630 --> 34:26.130]  [SPEAKER_27]: First of all, first of all, I don't know if you can use the word ironical in that context, but, uh, Monroe, do you have a question?
[34:28.010 --> 34:29.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, let me say it this way.
[34:30.070 --> 34:36.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: My fundamental question is, who are the people who run, like, I've been to Pacifica meetings, who are the people who run WBAI?
[34:37.670 --> 34:51.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because, uh, what input does the listener really have to have any kind of voting, uh, or concern to even know who these people are who populate Pacifica, who choose Rosemarie Reed for a station manager?
[34:51.170 --> 34:53.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: She's nice on certain situations.
[34:53.430 --> 34:55.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: Others, I find, are very tyrannical.
[34:55.330 --> 34:57.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, I mean, I don't understand.
[34:57.410 --> 35:05.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, the WBAI has decided that the world's ending on, uh, March 30th, because they don't have any program, uh, notes in the folio.
[35:06.090 --> 35:06.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: Have you noticed that?
[35:08.090 --> 35:09.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, it's unbelievable.
[35:09.550 --> 35:11.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: What I'm going through is a loyal listener.
[35:12.410 --> 35:14.770]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, you certainly are a loyal listener, and you're a very loyal caller.
[35:14.890 --> 35:17.230]  [SPEAKER_27]: You always wind up being number one on the phone dial.
[35:17.670 --> 35:21.470]  [SPEAKER_27]: You brought up some good questions, and, uh, we'll do our best to answer them.
[35:21.590 --> 35:22.750]  [SPEAKER_27]: Let's go on to some more calls, though.
[35:23.070 --> 35:27.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll just say to Monroe that, uh, you know, it's tough running a radio station.
[35:27.630 --> 35:28.050]  [SPEAKER_27]: It sure is.
[35:28.170 --> 35:29.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: Based on free principles.
[35:29.730 --> 35:33.370]  [SPEAKER_27]: I mean, we have people running through the halls screaming at the top of their lungs every day here.
[35:33.550 --> 35:37.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure WBAI's doing the best it can, and we all do the best we can.
[35:38.270 --> 35:38.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[35:38.950 --> 35:39.630]  [SPEAKER_27]: You're on.
[35:40.010 --> 35:40.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hi.
[35:40.630 --> 35:41.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening, Ken.
[35:41.750 --> 35:42.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening, Emmanuel.
[35:42.810 --> 35:42.970]  [SPEAKER_27]: Hi.
[35:43.230 --> 35:43.410]  [SPEAKER_27]: Hello.
[35:43.950 --> 35:47.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, has anybody noticed what's happened to NYC FM?
[35:47.910 --> 35:48.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[35:48.470 --> 35:51.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: That they have got more middle-of-the-road with their music?
[35:51.350 --> 35:52.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I disagree completely.
[35:53.190 --> 35:53.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: You serious, Ken?
[35:54.110 --> 35:55.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think they've loosened way up.
[35:55.970 --> 35:58.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm really happy with the way NYC's been going musically.
[35:58.830 --> 36:03.690]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, now, let's ask the caller what musically do you see happening that you don't like?
[36:04.430 --> 36:06.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: They just seem to be going much more middle-of-the-road.
[36:07.090 --> 36:24.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: You used to be able to hear things like, I don't know, music like Steve Reich and more, I don't know, slightly out of the middle-of-the-road 20th century, well, contemporary music on the station.
[36:24.470 --> 36:31.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, it's kind of restricted to, you know, wishy-washy, new-age music.
[36:32.150 --> 36:41.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't really listen that much anymore, but like David Garland's program, I'm hearing things that I never would have thought I'd hear on WNYC.
[36:41.890 --> 36:43.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: But he's the exception to the rule.
[36:43.550 --> 36:43.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[36:44.750 --> 36:45.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: But...
[36:45.230 --> 36:45.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, is this Tony?
[36:46.150 --> 36:46.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[36:46.610 --> 36:46.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi.
[36:47.130 --> 36:47.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: How are you doing, Ken?
[36:47.850 --> 36:48.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good.
[36:48.490 --> 36:50.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tony's an FMU listener and supporter.
[36:51.230 --> 36:53.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: And a WBAI subscriber and supporter.
[36:53.810 --> 36:55.970]  [SPEAKER_27]: Is he always the first one to call in on your call-in shows?
[36:56.170 --> 36:56.830]  [SPEAKER_27]: Not at all.
[36:57.130 --> 36:57.290]  [SPEAKER_27]: Okay.
[36:58.330 --> 36:58.950]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, um...
[36:58.950 --> 37:00.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: And an NYC support and subscribe.
[37:00.850 --> 37:03.870]  [SPEAKER_27]: Do you have any other question or statement about this whole situation?
[37:04.270 --> 37:05.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, not really.
[37:05.410 --> 37:19.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: I just, you know, I think things are tough for public radio and I think that the trend seems to be, you know, to cater to the middle of the road.
[37:20.010 --> 37:22.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think that's happening in NYC.
[37:22.030 --> 37:22.870]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[37:23.030 --> 37:23.910]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, mass appeal.
[37:24.090 --> 37:27.030]  [SPEAKER_27]: You know, it's words I never thought I would hear in non-commercial radio.
[37:27.190 --> 37:28.470]  [SPEAKER_27]: But they're talking demographics.
[37:28.710 --> 37:29.730]  [SPEAKER_27]: They're talking arbitrons.
[37:30.070 --> 37:31.210]  [SPEAKER_27]: You know, it's terrible.
[37:31.430 --> 37:31.890]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's scary.
[37:32.110 --> 37:32.710]  [SPEAKER_27]: Where is it leading?
[37:33.050 --> 37:40.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, as long as the content remains, you know, you know, dealing with real issues, it's okay.
[37:40.950 --> 37:50.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: But when, you know, when they shy away from controversial things and just play safe stuff, then it kind of loses the whole...
[37:50.530 --> 37:58.870]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, tell me something, and I'm not saying that they haven't done it, but tell me something controversial that WNYC has done themselves, not taking something from NPR.
[37:59.250 --> 38:01.330]  [SPEAKER_27]: What have they done that's controversial themselves?
[38:02.230 --> 38:03.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: What have they done that's controversial?
[38:04.150 --> 38:05.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: I know something they're doing that's controversial.
[38:06.030 --> 38:06.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let's hear it.
[38:06.630 --> 38:09.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, Tony, do you know any programming that's controversial?
[38:09.950 --> 38:10.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: On NYC?
[38:10.910 --> 38:11.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[38:11.270 --> 38:11.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, of course not.
[38:11.950 --> 38:17.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: But, well, I mean, they air very excellent news and interview programs.
[38:17.590 --> 38:20.530]  [SPEAKER_27]: Right, but are those locally produced, or are they from NPR?
[38:21.190 --> 38:24.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, they're locally... some of them are locally produced, and they're really fine.
[38:24.470 --> 38:25.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: They're about the best they're on the radio.
[38:26.650 --> 38:27.030]  [SPEAKER_27]: Okay.
[38:27.310 --> 38:40.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: But as far as really kind of, you know, current issues and getting to the bottom of things and calling a spade a spade, it doesn't really happen, because I think they try to be very careful, which they have to be.
[38:40.930 --> 38:41.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: But it's a shame.
[38:42.010 --> 38:43.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, you know, so there's just B.A.I.
[38:43.690 --> 38:49.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: where nobody's really frightened of getting to the bottom of issues.
[38:49.970 --> 38:51.710]  [SPEAKER_27]: Now we stamp on the foot of authority.
[38:52.550 --> 38:54.510]  [SPEAKER_27]: Ken, you had a thought on NYC?
[38:55.030 --> 38:57.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I actually probably shouldn't talk about that.
[38:57.790 --> 38:58.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[38:58.690 --> 38:59.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're suing...
[38:59.310 --> 39:00.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: You've got to be careful here, you know.
[39:00.390 --> 39:03.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're suing a small publisher over a very silly thing.
[39:03.870 --> 39:04.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're being very petty.
[39:05.210 --> 39:06.950]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, most losses are rather silly.
[39:07.170 --> 39:10.850]  [SPEAKER_27]: Thanks so much for calling, and keep listening to both of our fine stations.
[39:10.930 --> 39:11.410]  [SPEAKER_27]: Okay.
[39:11.610 --> 39:12.070]  [SPEAKER_27]: Hi, Tony.
[39:13.730 --> 39:14.530]  [SPEAKER_27]: 279-3400.
[39:14.750 --> 39:15.310]  [SPEAKER_27]: Good morning.
[39:15.970 --> 39:16.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, hi, good morning.
[39:16.730 --> 39:17.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sorry.
[39:17.310 --> 39:29.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: I tuned in just briefly a few minutes ago, and I live in Huntington on Long Island, and occasionally I get WFMU, and am I not hearing... I mean, am I missing something?
[39:29.430 --> 39:30.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Did something happen there?
[39:30.490 --> 39:31.050]  [SPEAKER_27]: Wait a minute.
[39:31.110 --> 39:31.890]  [SPEAKER_27]: You live in Huntington?
[39:31.950 --> 39:33.190]  [SPEAKER_27]: You're able to get WFMU?
[39:33.870 --> 39:34.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[39:34.270 --> 39:38.610]  [SPEAKER_27]: That seems incredible to me, because I get WSHU over them in Queens.
[39:39.750 --> 39:42.110]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah, I have trouble getting FMU in my own office.
[39:42.230 --> 39:49.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I'm really kind of lucky in that I really have antennas on my house.
[39:49.170 --> 39:51.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I figured you had some kind of special equipment.
[39:51.410 --> 39:51.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wow.
[39:51.950 --> 39:53.570]  [SPEAKER_27]: You must really have gone to a lot of work.
[39:53.750 --> 39:55.210]  [SPEAKER_27]: Do you get WPKN as well?
[39:55.210 --> 39:55.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, of course.
[39:55.990 --> 39:57.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: PKN comes in loud and clear.
[39:57.230 --> 39:59.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: In fact, I've picked PKN up in Queens, as far as Queens.
[40:00.210 --> 40:01.170]  [SPEAKER_27]: Do you get WUSB?
[40:02.830 --> 40:08.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: USB, strangely enough, has probably one of the worst signals of any radio station on Long Island.
[40:08.790 --> 40:09.210]  [SPEAKER_27]: I hear you.
[40:10.630 --> 40:18.850]  [SPEAKER_27]: That's something... being involved with that radio station, too, I can tell you that's something that's been an albatross and something that that radio station is trying to solve.
[40:18.950 --> 40:20.790]  [SPEAKER_27]: But again, it takes money.
[40:20.790 --> 40:21.750]  [SPEAKER_27]: It takes listeners.
[40:21.750 --> 40:22.950]  [SPEAKER_27]: And they're out there.
[40:23.090 --> 40:25.130]  [SPEAKER_27]: You know, there's a lot of support in community radio.
[40:25.130 --> 40:25.990]  [SPEAKER_27]: You find that out.
[40:26.110 --> 40:27.750]  [SPEAKER_27]: It takes a crisis to find that out.
[40:28.030 --> 40:28.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Absolutely.
[40:28.630 --> 40:36.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: In fact, WBAI, I do a lot of work out east, and I can pick WBAI out as far as YAP Hank.
[40:37.050 --> 40:44.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I'll pick up WBAI more than I will USB sometimes, even in Suffolk County, which is funny.
[40:44.770 --> 40:50.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: But could you just briefly... you're probably doing a show on FMU, and I missed what was happening.
[40:50.770 --> 40:52.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: And just briefly, can you tell me what happened?
[40:53.050 --> 41:03.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what's happening at FMU is three big public radio stations are trying to become even bigger by decimating our coverage area, by cutting us down by more than half.
[41:03.230 --> 41:09.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're trying to use a 30-year-old... actually a 28-year-old error as a reason for doing it.
[41:10.890 --> 41:14.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Are you saying they're going to, like, sort of snuff your signal?
[41:14.370 --> 41:15.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're trying to.
[41:15.390 --> 41:16.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're trying very hard to.
[41:16.570 --> 41:21.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: They've been trying for the last year to have our power cut down to 650 watts.
[41:22.310 --> 41:24.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, that's bad, to cut your power down.
[41:24.450 --> 41:24.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[41:24.890 --> 41:32.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's sort of one thing to come in and do what you want to do with your power, but don't cut my power down.
[41:33.970 --> 41:34.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do you agree with that?
[41:35.070 --> 41:40.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do you think that having the... I don't know, maybe that...
[41:40.570 --> 41:46.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, I think you can mess another station up, even if you leave them alone and just try to increase yourself.
[41:46.810 --> 41:50.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's what's happening with SHU on Long Island.
[41:50.690 --> 41:58.370]  [SPEAKER_27]: What's amazing is none of these stations are affected by you in the slightest inside their primary coverage area.
[41:59.050 --> 41:59.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, they are.
[42:00.010 --> 42:04.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: They discovered small amounts of overlap between our coverage area and their coverage area.
[42:04.670 --> 42:05.570]  [SPEAKER_27]: Their primary coverage area?
[42:05.710 --> 42:05.790]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah.
[42:05.870 --> 42:07.550]  [SPEAKER_27]: What particular areas are we talking about?
[42:07.950 --> 42:11.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the 60 dBU contour, which is...
[42:11.150 --> 42:12.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: But where is this?
[42:12.170 --> 42:13.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: The technical name for it.
[42:13.610 --> 42:14.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where are the areas of overlap?
[42:15.070 --> 42:15.290]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah.
[42:15.550 --> 42:22.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: As far as FMU and SHU, a tiny little area in Connecticut, right on the Sound, and also in Long Island, right on the Sound.
[42:23.170 --> 42:23.390]  [SPEAKER_27]: Really?
[42:23.750 --> 42:23.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[42:24.170 --> 42:33.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then in Tom's River, just somewhere right around Lakewood, New Jersey.
[42:33.390 --> 42:35.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: But why wasn't this ever noticed before?
[42:35.430 --> 42:37.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because they're tiny, tiny amounts of overlap.
[42:37.930 --> 42:39.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: They only affect 3,000 people.
[42:40.070 --> 42:47.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about a tenth of 1% of WKTW's signal is affected by the overlap.
[42:47.690 --> 42:51.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the FCC permits it to allow overlap up to 10%.
[42:51.550 --> 42:53.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Here we're talking about a tenth of 1%.
[42:53.970 --> 42:59.270]  [SPEAKER_27]: Now, if the cards were turned, if it was the other way around, what do you think would be happening now?
[43:00.730 --> 43:06.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: I certainly... WFMU certainly would not be behaving like these stations are behaving.
[43:06.830 --> 43:07.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: Why?
[43:08.370 --> 43:13.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because there are other ways to build an audience besides trying to take over your neighbors.
[43:14.630 --> 43:18.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I can understand every station wants to increase its audience.
[43:18.950 --> 43:20.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a natural tendency, I guess.
[43:21.210 --> 43:24.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: How have your listeners responded to this?
[43:24.650 --> 43:26.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, they've come out for us.
[43:26.210 --> 43:27.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: They've been incredible.
[43:28.170 --> 43:32.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think they're going to really show what it means to them when we have our fun drive.
[43:32.830 --> 43:33.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's really good.
[43:33.970 --> 43:40.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because, for instance, I know at WPKN, their fundraisers were fairly successful.
[43:40.550 --> 43:42.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: And USBs were, weren't they?
[43:44.330 --> 43:47.570]  [SPEAKER_27]: WUSBs was very... They had their first fundraiser last year.
[43:47.610 --> 43:49.510]  [SPEAKER_27]: In fact, they're about to have their second.
[43:50.270 --> 43:59.290]  [SPEAKER_27]: And the purpose of the fundraiser is to raise enough money to actually move the transmitter so that people like yourself will be able to actually hear the station.
[43:59.730 --> 44:02.490]  [SPEAKER_27]: And a lot more people will be able to.
[44:02.650 --> 44:13.890]  [SPEAKER_27]: But it's kind of a race, kind of a race against time because the public radio giants are sort of moving in and saying, well, we want this frequency since you're not using it.
[44:13.950 --> 44:16.110]  [SPEAKER_27]: We're going to take over this particular part of the island.
[44:16.570 --> 44:21.390]  [SPEAKER_27]: And if they move in first, if they move in first, then WUSB is out of luck.
[44:21.790 --> 44:24.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: I can't... I don't understand that.
[44:24.450 --> 44:41.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: What you're saying is that the university, which has that signal of 90.1, or any other college that might have a signal like PKN of 89.5, those signals can be in jeopardy because of... Can you just explain that again?
[44:41.110 --> 44:48.810]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah, well, now what WSHU wants to do is they want to open up a radio station out on the eastern part of Long Island at 89.9, which is...
[44:48.810 --> 44:50.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: USHU's Sacred Heart University.
[44:50.550 --> 44:51.250]  [SPEAKER_27]: That's right, yes.
[44:51.450 --> 44:55.930]  [SPEAKER_27]: They want to start a new radio station, or I should say a satellite of their original station.
[44:55.930 --> 44:57.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: They want to start three new radio stations.
[44:58.130 --> 45:00.530]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, they want a booster for their signal.
[45:00.670 --> 45:07.610]  [SPEAKER_27]: They want two other frequencies on Long Island, one at 88.3 and surely one at 89.9, I believe in Sag Harbor.
[45:08.070 --> 45:14.270]  [SPEAKER_27]: And the thing is, if you look on paper, the signals don't overlap now.
[45:14.610 --> 45:19.410]  [SPEAKER_27]: But WUSB has been planning to expand for years now, and they've been raising the money.
[45:19.690 --> 45:28.650]  [SPEAKER_27]: And if this station were to go on the air first in Sag Harbor, WUSB wouldn't be able to expand because they'd have to protect that station.
[45:28.750 --> 45:35.390]  [SPEAKER_27]: They'd have to protect the signal that's being duplicated three times over within only a couple of frequencies.
[45:35.690 --> 45:39.690]  [SPEAKER_27]: And it would be very ironic for that to happen, especially at this stage in the game.
[45:39.830 --> 45:42.810]  [SPEAKER_27]: So it's a critical time for many radio stations.
[45:43.510 --> 45:53.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: What interest suddenly do universities have in expanding their range in, I mean, especially at Connecticut to Long Island, like St. Shirley?
[45:53.710 --> 45:56.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, this is like, I don't understand.
[45:56.650 --> 45:57.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: What interest is there?
[45:57.970 --> 46:04.810]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, like we mentioned before, the larger a station is, larger a non-commercial station is, the more it can get in federal funding.
[46:05.490 --> 46:18.630]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's very attractive for a university to have National Public Radio or any other entity like that come in and say, we'll buy your station, we'll run your station, and there'll be lots of great publicity for your particular university.
[46:18.770 --> 46:21.350]  [SPEAKER_27]: Sacred Heart University was a community radio station.
[46:21.590 --> 46:27.270]  [SPEAKER_27]: I don't know how much like FMU or USB or PKN it was, but it was run by students.
[46:27.970 --> 46:29.870]  [SPEAKER_27]: Now it's not run by any students at all.
[46:29.990 --> 46:31.290]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's run by professional people.
[46:31.850 --> 46:35.910]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's still affiliated with Sacred Heart University, and it's great PR for them.
[46:36.090 --> 46:37.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know why they're doing it?
[46:37.650 --> 46:39.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because it's, for one thing, it's ambition.
[46:39.430 --> 46:42.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just, they want to become a bigger station.
[46:52.070 --> 46:53.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's worth money.
[46:53.110 --> 46:54.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: An audience is worth money.
[46:54.430 --> 46:56.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: Access to that audience is worth money.
[46:56.730 --> 46:57.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's also prestige.
[46:57.690 --> 47:06.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just very prestigious for colleges to have their radio stations getting bigger and bigger and crossing state boundaries and building a public radio empire.
[47:06.230 --> 47:11.210]  [SPEAKER_27]: And the funny thing is that a lot of times students are looked upon as kind of inconvenient.
[47:11.490 --> 47:14.870]  [SPEAKER_27]: You know, they get in the way, they make mistakes, they put something controversial on.
[47:14.930 --> 47:24.230]  [SPEAKER_27]: Whereas if you're tied into something that has been proven to be popular and will get people to listen and get people to pledge money, that's so much safer.
[47:24.370 --> 47:26.070]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's so much safer to go that road.
[47:26.370 --> 47:38.470]  [SPEAKER_27]: And you really got to... I got to give the universities that have stuck by their non-commercial radio stations credit for not bowing into this and for allowing creativity to exist in what's supposed to be a creative setting.
[47:39.210 --> 47:39.270]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah.
[47:39.530 --> 47:40.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: I agree.
[47:40.170 --> 47:44.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I think for the most part, USB is a fairly decent station.
[47:44.270 --> 47:49.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I don't listen to it during the day because the format is just, you know, monotonous at times.
[47:49.090 --> 47:56.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: But there are syndicated, shall we say, left-oriented programs that are fairly good.
[47:57.130 --> 47:59.330]  [SPEAKER_27]: I think... Oh, they carry Pacifica News, you know.
[47:59.410 --> 48:00.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I listen to that.
[48:00.310 --> 48:05.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, it comes over the phone line, so it's not as clear as WBAIs.
[48:05.470 --> 48:09.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I mean, it's very good for people who live out east who don't get to listen to WBAI.
[48:09.550 --> 48:09.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[48:09.890 --> 48:13.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, well, thanks for letting me talk and giving me the information tonight, guys.
[48:13.550 --> 48:13.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[48:13.870 --> 48:17.050]  [SPEAKER_27]: And keep listening to all these amazing stations that are around.
[48:17.250 --> 48:17.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: Will do.
[48:17.590 --> 48:18.710]  [SPEAKER_27]: Hopefully they'll be around for a while.
[48:19.270 --> 48:26.490]  [SPEAKER_27]: And I want to take a slight break here, give out some addresses, and
[48:29.570 --> 48:34.070]  [SPEAKER_27]: talk a little bit about what these stations are.
[48:34.170 --> 48:37.430]  [SPEAKER_27]: Now, Ken here has a fundraiser coming up for WFMU.
[48:37.490 --> 48:40.230]  [SPEAKER_27]: You want to tell us when that is and what people can do to help out?
[48:40.690 --> 48:44.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it starts a week from Monday, March 26th, and it's going for two weeks.
[48:44.870 --> 48:49.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I guess WBAI listeners could do a number of things to help.
[48:49.810 --> 48:53.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: They could make a small pledge to WFMU just to put themselves...
[48:53.710 --> 48:55.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like just voting for non-commercial radio.
[48:55.990 --> 49:05.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Even a $5 or $10 pledge would just put you on a map that we would, you know, submit to the FCC to show that WFMU has a vast reach in the area, which we do.
[49:06.190 --> 49:09.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: So we're trying to attract a lot of new contributors this year.
[49:09.270 --> 49:11.150]  [SPEAKER_27]: How many fundraisers do you have in a year?
[49:11.250 --> 49:14.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: One year, and we get all our money from listener contributions.
[49:14.550 --> 49:17.170]  [SPEAKER_27]: So this one fundraiser is your entire source of income.
[49:17.350 --> 49:17.530]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah.
[49:17.610 --> 49:18.270]  [SPEAKER_27]: How long does it run?
[49:18.270 --> 49:22.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: Up until this year, we had always been able to do it in nine days out of the year.
[49:22.330 --> 49:22.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[49:22.750 --> 49:24.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: Raise all our money in just nine days.
[49:25.190 --> 49:28.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: And this year, we're expanding it by five days.
[49:28.430 --> 49:29.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're doing a two-week fundraiser.
[49:30.070 --> 49:30.510]  [SPEAKER_27]: Two weeks.
[49:30.770 --> 49:32.230]  [SPEAKER_27]: And what's your... Do you have a goal yet?
[49:32.230 --> 49:32.310]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah.
[49:32.550 --> 49:34.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: Our goal is $250,000.
[49:34.950 --> 49:36.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that'll kind of be unheard of.
[49:36.610 --> 49:37.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of scary.
[49:37.430 --> 49:38.130]  [SPEAKER_27]: That's kind of scary.
[49:38.370 --> 49:41.270]  [SPEAKER_27]: That's something that WBAI finds kind of scary.
[49:41.470 --> 49:44.730]  [SPEAKER_27]: And we've got New York City and Brooklyn and Queens.
[49:44.750 --> 49:45.010]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah.
[49:45.050 --> 49:48.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we've got parts of New York City and Brooklyn.
[49:48.550 --> 49:49.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: No part of Queens, though.
[49:50.030 --> 49:50.270]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[49:50.350 --> 49:52.770]  [SPEAKER_27]: So is there an address or a phone number?
[49:53.030 --> 49:53.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[49:53.450 --> 49:57.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Our phone number is 201-266-7911.
[49:58.190 --> 50:00.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's the fundraising phone number for those two weeks.
[50:01.550 --> 50:04.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: And also, people could write letters of support.
[50:04.310 --> 50:06.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: If they're FMU listeners, they can write us letters of support.
[50:06.810 --> 50:11.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: And if they're not FMU listeners, they could either check the station out and then write a letter of support.
[50:11.750 --> 50:16.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: Or they could just write a general letter of support for free-form, non-commercial radio.
[50:17.270 --> 50:17.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[50:17.870 --> 50:27.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the address to send letters to is WFMU, Attention Station Manager, Uppsala College, UPSALA.
[50:28.650 --> 50:35.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's in East Orange, New Jersey, 07019.
[50:36.250 --> 50:38.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we'll give the address out again a little later on.
[50:38.790 --> 50:38.950]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah.
[50:39.070 --> 50:40.610]  [SPEAKER_27]: We'll do that, uh, towards the end of the program.
[50:40.930 --> 50:56.770]  [SPEAKER_27]: Also, uh, the other two radio stations we were referring to, WPKN, they've had, uh, tremendous amount of trouble over the last year with losing their, their operating budget from the university and dealing with, uh, these, uh, other entities that, uh,
[50:57.010 --> 51:07.890]  [SPEAKER_27]: find their signal very desirable and, uh, are making life, uh, kind of difficult by, by threatening to take them over and turn them into a, uh, a rebroadcaster of public radio stations.
[51:08.210 --> 51:11.870]  [SPEAKER_27]: I know they'll be having, uh, some kind of fundraiser, I think, in the fall.
[51:12.070 --> 51:17.890]  [SPEAKER_27]: They, they were actually able to raise all the money they needed for at least the interim, uh, last fall.
[51:18.050 --> 51:20.750]  [SPEAKER_27]: And, uh, hopefully that will keep them going for a while.
[51:20.890 --> 51:32.170]  [SPEAKER_27]: But their WPKN, I don't have an address for them, but I do know if you, if you just write WPKN, University of Bridgeport, Bridgeport, Connecticut, and throw five digits at random or something, I'm sure it will get there somehow.
[51:32.510 --> 51:39.330]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh, and their phone number, if I recall correctly, is, uh, 203, uh, 576-4895.
[51:40.090 --> 51:43.770]  [SPEAKER_27]: And if it's not, apologize to the person that you woke up, but I'm pretty sure that's it.
[51:44.230 --> 51:49.050]  [SPEAKER_27]: And WUSB is the station out in, uh, Stony Brook, New York, in Suffolk County.
[51:49.690 --> 51:59.330]  [SPEAKER_27]: And, um, since I, I do things out at that radio station too, I see the similarities between that radio station, uh, your radio station, WFMU, and WBAI.
[51:59.910 --> 52:02.150]  [SPEAKER_27]: Um, there's always a struggle.
[52:02.310 --> 52:08.230]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's always, uh, trying to get something accomplished, to, to get over a hurdle.
[52:08.430 --> 52:11.830]  [SPEAKER_27]: And lots of times, more often than not, the hurdles are gotten over.
[52:11.970 --> 52:13.870]  [SPEAKER_27]: And it's a great feeling when, when, when you do that.
[52:13.870 --> 52:32.510]  [SPEAKER_27]: And right now, at WUSB, the hurdle is getting the transmitter moved so that more people will be able to hear it, uh, in the, uh, the listening range of WUSB and hopefully beat out the more powerful, richer stations that want that same chunk of the listeners.
[52:32.790 --> 52:35.390]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh, I know WUSB is having a fundraiser.
[52:35.530 --> 52:38.510]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's starting on April 5th and running to the 14th.
[52:38.690 --> 52:41.350]  [SPEAKER_27]: Their goal is, it's, it's embarrassing.
[52:41.530 --> 52:43.130]  [SPEAKER_27]: That goal is a measly $30,000.
[52:43.590 --> 52:47.390]  [SPEAKER_27]: Now it seems like, uh, you guys are out for $250,000.
[52:47.530 --> 52:47.690]  [SPEAKER_27]: Sure.
[52:48.330 --> 52:59.810]  [SPEAKER_27]: When, when I say the goal is $30,000, uh, that's, that was the goal before this whole WSHU business came up and before, um, all these other things started happening.
[53:00.050 --> 53:06.890]  [SPEAKER_27]: And, uh, and in reality, the station needs about $100,000 to actually do everything that it needs to do.
[53:07.490 --> 53:10.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it certainly... You're trying to raise the tower?
[53:10.470 --> 53:11.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're trying to raise your antenna higher?
[53:11.590 --> 53:20.190]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, right now the, uh, the tower is, uh, is a very low height and, uh, moving it even a hundred feet up would increase the, uh, the signal range tremendously.
[53:20.890 --> 53:28.830]  [SPEAKER_27]: And, uh, folks like that Calder and Huntington would be able to actually get another community radio station that does original, original creative things.
[53:29.330 --> 53:33.130]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh, so their fundraiser is going from, uh, from April 5th to 14th.
[53:33.130 --> 53:40.230]  [SPEAKER_27]: And, uh, there's a phone number you can call if you want to be involved in that or pledge or find out more information about the radio station.
[53:40.310 --> 53:45.550]  [SPEAKER_27]: That's area code 516-632-6498.
[53:46.090 --> 53:50.670]  [SPEAKER_27]: And their address, and this address will work because they worked it out with the post office.
[53:50.910 --> 53:55.410]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's WUSB Stony Brook, New York, 11790.
[53:55.990 --> 53:58.410]  [SPEAKER_27]: And you can write to them or support them.
[53:58.490 --> 54:06.610]  [SPEAKER_27]: But also don't forget WBAI in New York because, uh, we're the station that, uh, that allows lots of different things to go on the air.
[54:06.910 --> 54:09.510]  [SPEAKER_27]: There are lots of community radio stations around.
[54:10.190 --> 54:14.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, um... Yeah, non-commercial radio in the New York area is pretty good.
[54:14.650 --> 54:16.350]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's not like that in other parts of the country.
[54:16.530 --> 54:16.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
[54:16.550 --> 54:20.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's got about the worst commercial radio in the country, but probably the best non-commercial radio.
[54:20.830 --> 54:23.670]  [SPEAKER_27]: But, uh, it's only going to survive if people support it.
[54:23.750 --> 54:29.290]  [SPEAKER_27]: Both support it by listening, by spreading the word, and by contributing what you can afford.
[54:29.870 --> 54:38.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, and the state, the non-commercial stations have really been, you know, the ones that aren't, uh, busy getting gobbled up, or, uh, attempted to be gobbled up, are really banding together.
[54:38.830 --> 54:42.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: I really appreciate being able to come on WBAI and discuss this program.
[54:42.310 --> 54:46.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, the other stations have been helping us out a lot, so... Uh-huh.
[54:46.410 --> 54:47.330]  [SPEAKER_27]: That's what it's all about.
[54:47.470 --> 54:57.230]  [SPEAKER_27]: I mean, radio is something that, uh, gets in your blood, you know, and you realize the importance of being able to speak out about various things, whether it's Nelson Mandela or simply your own radio station.
[54:57.530 --> 55:01.010]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh, freedom of speech is, is the catchphrase here.
[55:01.270 --> 55:07.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: College and community radio are, are programmed by people who care about music and care about radio.
[55:08.130 --> 55:08.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[55:08.450 --> 55:16.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: And care about culture, as opposed to what the interests of, uh, people who run larger non-commercial and commercial stations are.
[55:17.070 --> 55:33.650]  [SPEAKER_27]: And is it ever a learning experience as far as, uh, being exposed to different cultures, different ways of doing things and just building up, uh, uh, uh, doing different things that, that aren't feasible in the commercial world or in the, uh, in the professional world of,
[55:33.650 --> 55:34.670]  [SPEAKER_27]: of non-commercial radio.
[55:35.150 --> 55:37.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, uh, I wanted to give out one other phone number.
[55:38.090 --> 55:38.090]  Go ahead.
[55:38.090 --> 55:42.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because, um, FMU is a pretty difficult station to pick up in a lot of places.
[55:42.990 --> 55:43.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[55:43.470 --> 55:46.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of times people don't even know what they're looking for on the dial.
[55:46.590 --> 55:51.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: So we set up a phone number that you can call up and hear FMU at any given moment.
[55:51.310 --> 55:51.650]  [SPEAKER_27]: Oh.
[55:51.890 --> 55:52.030]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah.
[55:52.210 --> 55:52.450]  [SPEAKER_27]: So the phone.
[55:52.450 --> 55:55.450]  [SPEAKER_27]: Do you find that that's taken up by people who just can't listen and feel they want to call?
[55:55.590 --> 55:55.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[55:55.670 --> 55:58.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: People, people call up at work and put it on their speaker phones.
[55:58.050 --> 56:01.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: People listen to certain programs from, uh, Michigan and California.
[56:01.650 --> 56:03.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: How many people can call at once?
[56:03.210 --> 56:03.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think eight.
[56:04.330 --> 56:04.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Eight people.
[56:04.970 --> 56:05.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[56:05.730 --> 56:07.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: There's people who live in other states.
[56:07.090 --> 56:07.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a good idea.
[56:08.090 --> 56:08.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[56:08.190 --> 56:09.050]  [SPEAKER_27]: That's a very good idea.
[56:09.430 --> 56:15.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: So that number is 201-644-2339.
[56:16.530 --> 56:19.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: And FMU's frequency is 91.1.
[56:19.250 --> 56:26.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: And between that phone number and a dipole antenna and, uh, careful use of your mono switch, you should be able to find FMU.
[56:26.790 --> 56:26.990]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[56:27.210 --> 56:33.330]  [SPEAKER_27]: You know, another thing that I found that, that, uh, and I don't want to speak out against NPR because I do happen to like a lot of their programs.
[56:33.490 --> 56:38.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, these NPR stations that are behaving this way, you know, you don't have, they're not the network.
[56:38.470 --> 56:39.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, they're not the network.
[56:39.490 --> 56:40.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're, they're the individual stations.
[56:41.110 --> 56:44.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: The network is not responsible for what the individual stations are doing.
[56:44.590 --> 56:51.570]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, they, I think they've caught some commercial radio fever, uh, by being given a bit of power, a lot of money, and control over people.
[56:51.590 --> 56:52.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: They see their, they see their last chance.
[56:52.810 --> 57:03.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Stations like WSHU, I think, uh, see their last chance for being able to expand before the non-commercial dials completely clogged and there's no more movement allowable.
[57:03.170 --> 57:10.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we're reaching that point and they're making their final, you know, their final, uh, they're putting their final stake in for more territory.
[57:10.970 --> 57:24.530]  [SPEAKER_27]: But what I, what I've noticed with a lot of NPR stations, and I guess this is on an individual, uh, decision, uh, level, a lot of them broadcast in mono because the signal goes further in mono, especially during, uh, during the news programs.
[57:25.130 --> 57:25.530]  [SPEAKER_27]: Really?
[57:25.650 --> 57:25.750]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah.
[57:25.850 --> 57:30.990]  [SPEAKER_27]: You notice a little light goes out just when all things considered comes on and, uh, you blanket a larger region when you do that.
[57:31.150 --> 57:31.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[57:31.570 --> 57:31.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[57:31.770 --> 57:34.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: FM stations come in twice as far in mono as they do in stereo.
[57:34.990 --> 57:35.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[57:35.430 --> 57:36.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, uh, that's interesting.
[57:36.330 --> 57:36.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: It is.
[57:36.710 --> 57:40.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: It makes sense that during a spoken word program, you take out the mono, you take out the stereo.
[57:40.930 --> 57:44.230]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah, it makes sense, but it also tells you something about, uh, yeah, I mean, maybe.
[57:44.230 --> 57:45.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: As soon as the DJ starts talking, quick!
[57:46.390 --> 57:47.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: Flip the station into mono.
[57:47.810 --> 57:51.470]  [SPEAKER_27]: But, but you're assuming that what the DJ says is more important than the music, you know?
[57:51.730 --> 57:53.490]  [SPEAKER_27]: You want the music to reach all those people, too.
[57:54.190 --> 57:58.490]  [SPEAKER_27]: We're going to take, uh, speaking of music, speaking of music, we're going to, we're going to play a two-minute song here, then we're going to go right
[58:03.490 --> 58:03.610]  [SPEAKER_27]: there.
[58:03.750 --> 58:05.210]  [SPEAKER_27]: Somebody fell asleep and dropped the phone.
[58:05.610 --> 58:07.950]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh, and we're going to talk a little bit more about radio.
[58:07.950 --> 58:11.930]  [SPEAKER_27]: We have about 20 minutes or so, so, uh, 212-279-3400.
[58:12.250 --> 58:12.970]  [SPEAKER_27]: We'll be right back.
[58:15.090 --> 58:16.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Elevator going up!
[58:17.610 --> 58:23.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: In the gleaming corridor of the 51st floor, the money can be made if you really want some more.
[58:24.030 --> 58:26.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Executive decision, a clinical precision.
[58:27.010 --> 58:29.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Jumping from the windows filled with indecision.
[58:29.650 --> 58:32.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: I get good advice from the advertising world.
[58:32.910 --> 58:35.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Treat me nice, party girl.
[58:36.070 --> 58:38.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go get live, where there isn't any.
[58:38.930 --> 58:40.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: So free, man, free.
[58:41.390 --> 58:44.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's the pause that refreshes in the corridors of power.
[58:44.850 --> 58:47.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll talk many to top up long before they'll be out.
[58:47.690 --> 58:50.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: You snake skin suit and your alligator poop.
[58:50.710 --> 58:53.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: You don't need how long that you can take them to the bed.
[58:53.510 --> 58:56.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: I get my advice from the advertising world.
[58:56.870 --> 58:59.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Treat me nice as the party girl.
[58:59.830 --> 59:02.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go get live, where there isn't any.
[59:02.670 --> 59:07.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: So free, Coca-Cola advertising and cocaine.
[59:08.600 --> 59:10.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Trolling down the proper in the rain.
[59:11.760 --> 59:14.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Neon light signs stays in.
[59:14.540 --> 59:15.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: I read it in the paper.
[59:16.220 --> 59:16.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're crazy.
[59:17.360 --> 59:17.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[59:17.900 --> 59:18.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Suit your life.
[59:19.260 --> 59:20.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe so.
[59:20.660 --> 59:21.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: In the White House.
[59:22.220 --> 59:23.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: I know.
[59:23.900 --> 59:24.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Fall over party.
[59:25.020 --> 59:26.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: They do it for years.
[59:26.620 --> 59:28.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm in Manhattan.
[59:29.800 --> 59:30.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Coming through the door.
[59:31.040 --> 59:32.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is this from those forty-four?
[59:32.380 --> 59:33.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: The barrel can't snort.
[59:33.860 --> 59:35.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: It can spatter on the floor.
[59:35.400 --> 59:36.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Your eyeballs feel like pimples.
[59:36.840 --> 59:38.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: And your tongue feels like a fish.
[59:38.300 --> 59:40.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're leaping from the window saying, don't give it an eye.
[59:41.400 --> 59:42.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Cook at life.
[59:43.140 --> 59:44.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Advertising world.
[59:44.460 --> 59:47.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Treat me nice as the party girl.
[59:47.380 --> 59:48.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Cook at life.
[59:48.800 --> 59:50.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Where there is a man.
[59:50.220 --> 59:50.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: So freeze.
[59:51.540 --> 59:52.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Man, freeze.
[59:53.020 --> 59:53.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hit the deck.
[59:58.430 --> 01:00:04.590]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, there's a song for you by The Clash all about commercialization and the executive world and all that kind of garbage.
[01:00:05.010 --> 01:00:08.130]  [SPEAKER_27]: And a bit of what we're talking about here today on WBAI.
[01:00:08.250 --> 01:00:09.870]  [SPEAKER_27]: We're talking about non-commercial radio.
[01:00:09.970 --> 01:00:14.490]  [SPEAKER_27]: I guess if you want to title this program, it could be The Commercialization of Non-Commercial Radio.
[01:00:14.590 --> 01:00:15.010]  [SPEAKER_27]: What do you think?
[01:00:15.250 --> 01:00:16.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's been happening for a while.
[01:00:17.090 --> 01:00:19.190]  [SPEAKER_27]: We're here with Ken Williams, the... Ken Friedman.
[01:00:19.430 --> 01:00:19.910]  [SPEAKER_27]: I'm sorry.
[01:00:20.030 --> 01:00:20.770]  [SPEAKER_27]: Did I say that before?
[01:00:20.970 --> 01:00:21.110]  [SPEAKER_27]: No.
[01:00:21.110 --> 01:00:23.410]  [SPEAKER_27]: Ken Williams is a Jamaican DJ on WLIB.
[01:00:25.030 --> 01:00:25.470]  [SPEAKER_27]: Sorry.
[01:00:25.590 --> 01:00:26.630]  [SPEAKER_27]: Sorry to both of you, actually.
[01:00:26.970 --> 01:00:29.150]  [SPEAKER_27]: Ken Friedman is the general manager of WFMU.
[01:00:29.330 --> 01:00:35.650]  [SPEAKER_27]: And we're talking about the situation with his radio station battling, I guess, could you call them a corporate giant?
[01:00:35.670 --> 01:00:37.250]  [SPEAKER_27]: I guess in the scheme of things you could.
[01:00:37.650 --> 01:00:39.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, they're just big public radio stations.
[01:00:39.810 --> 01:00:40.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're not corporate.
[01:00:42.870 --> 01:00:44.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Although, you know, they're behaving as though they were.
[01:00:45.390 --> 01:00:46.470]  [SPEAKER_27]: Wishful thinking, I suppose.
[01:00:46.810 --> 01:00:48.970]  [SPEAKER_27]: Now we're talking about other non-commercial radio stations.
[01:00:49.170 --> 01:00:51.570]  [SPEAKER_27]: We like to hear what our listeners have to say.
[01:00:51.910 --> 01:00:55.310]  [SPEAKER_27]: Our phone number is 212-279-3400.
[01:00:55.370 --> 01:01:01.490]  [SPEAKER_27]: It won't do you much good to call now since all the lines are tied up, but who knows somebody might hang up and you can keep trying that way.
[01:01:01.870 --> 01:01:03.290]  [SPEAKER_27]: So let's go to the phones.
[01:01:03.950 --> 01:01:04.630]  [SPEAKER_27]: Good morning.
[01:01:04.630 --> 01:01:05.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good morning.
[01:01:06.110 --> 01:01:06.690]  [SPEAKER_27]: Go ahead.
[01:01:07.290 --> 01:01:10.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: I want to make a comment.
[01:01:12.030 --> 01:01:13.030]  [SPEAKER_27]: I'll turn down your radio.
[01:01:13.210 --> 01:01:14.690]  [SPEAKER_27]: That's my comment and then you can make yours.
[01:01:15.610 --> 01:01:17.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, radio station is in Bucharest.
[01:01:18.070 --> 01:01:22.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: There was all that fighting around getting control of the radio station to get the news out.
[01:01:22.910 --> 01:01:24.510]  [SPEAKER_27]: Okay, sir, can you hear me?
[01:01:24.730 --> 01:01:24.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[01:01:25.050 --> 01:01:27.930]  [SPEAKER_27]: Okay, you're going to have to turn down your radio because we're hearing you about four times.
[01:01:28.710 --> 01:01:29.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, one second.
[01:01:29.370 --> 01:01:29.610]  [SPEAKER_27]: Okay.
[01:01:30.490 --> 01:01:32.870]  [SPEAKER_27]: That's one thing about having a delay system.
[01:01:33.310 --> 01:01:35.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think this caller has a good point.
[01:01:37.010 --> 01:01:38.090]  [SPEAKER_27]: Okay, are you back yet?
[01:01:38.710 --> 01:01:39.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, am I with you?
[01:01:39.930 --> 01:01:41.150]  [SPEAKER_27]: Okay, make your point.
[01:01:41.470 --> 01:01:46.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, what I don't understand in this country, there's so many different progressive movements that are good.
[01:01:46.190 --> 01:01:53.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: You have, you know, the movement around women's rights, civil rights, around trade union rights, rights for immigrants.
[01:01:54.270 --> 01:02:03.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: Why haven't these organizations gotten together to own radio stations to get out the truth to the American people?
[01:02:03.190 --> 01:02:05.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: So you're going to have a decent society here.
[01:02:06.030 --> 01:02:08.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: That could be a tremendously powerful force.
[01:02:09.090 --> 01:02:14.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, you have about 20 million organized workers in this country who pay dues.
[01:02:15.010 --> 01:02:21.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: You have due-paying members to organizations like NOW, ACLU, Madre.
[01:02:21.630 --> 01:02:24.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, you know, I think that would be a beautiful idea.
[01:02:25.370 --> 01:02:25.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it would.
[01:02:25.990 --> 01:02:32.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: It would really offset the other organizations that are organized that are grabbing up radio frequencies all over the country.
[01:02:32.770 --> 01:02:38.450]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, I think that's comparable to the religious broadcasters, because they're always talking about the same thing.
[01:02:38.570 --> 01:02:44.750]  [SPEAKER_27]: But are you proposing a station that would be run by a particular group that would pretty much preach that doctrine all the time?
[01:02:44.750 --> 01:02:51.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, the doctrine it would preach would be, you know, progressive, you know, what people in this country need.
[01:02:51.310 --> 01:02:52.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: They need housing.
[01:02:52.030 --> 01:02:56.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: We need to keep our noses out of Central America.
[01:02:56.130 --> 01:02:58.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: We need to raise the minimum wage.
[01:02:59.230 --> 01:02:59.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[01:02:59.570 --> 01:03:02.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, I mean, we're lucky to have some stations that address that.
[01:03:02.730 --> 01:03:02.730]  We are.
[01:03:02.730 --> 01:03:12.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: The question is, why aren't these organizations that have been around for a long time, why hasn't it never dawned on them that they should get on the airwaves, that they should own radio stations?
[01:03:12.010 --> 01:03:13.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, a lot of them have.
[01:03:13.290 --> 01:03:18.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of the community radio stations in the United States have come on the air in the last 10 or 20 years.
[01:03:18.850 --> 01:03:20.350]  [SPEAKER_27]: Plus, you have to understand one thing.
[01:03:20.510 --> 01:03:23.890]  [SPEAKER_27]: Owning a radio station, operating a radio station, it costs a lot of money.
[01:03:24.070 --> 01:03:24.450]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's hard.
[01:03:24.790 --> 01:03:28.630]  [SPEAKER_27]: You've got to either sell commercials or have fundraisers.
[01:03:28.810 --> 01:03:31.630]  [SPEAKER_27]: And if you're not in a major city, it's going to be very hard.
[01:03:31.830 --> 01:03:33.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: AFL, CIO, they've got bucks.
[01:03:34.350 --> 01:03:34.670]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[01:03:35.010 --> 01:03:37.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, why haven't they managed to do that?
[01:03:37.630 --> 01:03:41.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, these unions today are being battered from the left and from the right.
[01:03:41.630 --> 01:03:43.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, they're really in bad shape.
[01:03:43.610 --> 01:03:53.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: If they want to increase their membership, if they want to get the message out how important unionism is, it would help them a lot if they had a couple of radio stations.
[01:03:54.130 --> 01:03:57.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: There is a station in California that's owned by a union.
[01:03:58.270 --> 01:03:58.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[01:03:58.750 --> 01:03:59.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: I live in New York, right?
[01:03:59.990 --> 01:04:05.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, besides WBAI, you know, in this whole metropolitan area, I don't get much.
[01:04:05.690 --> 01:04:08.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, this is what upsets me.
[01:04:08.710 --> 01:04:12.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because there are a lot of good people and a lot of good organizations out there.
[01:04:12.210 --> 01:04:12.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there should be more.
[01:04:12.970 --> 01:04:22.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, I think in the future, you're going to see a proliferation of other audio frequencies and other radio stations through cable and through satellites.
[01:04:22.510 --> 01:04:26.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think there are going to be more audio channels available in the future.
[01:04:26.630 --> 01:04:31.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, right now, there's no more frequencies available on the AM or FM band.
[01:04:31.450 --> 01:04:32.230]  [SPEAKER_27]: Especially in New York.
[01:04:32.490 --> 01:04:32.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:04:33.130 --> 01:04:37.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: Anywhere within 100 miles of any major city in the United States, there's no more room.
[01:04:37.730 --> 01:04:42.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think in the next decade, you're going to see more radio stations popping up in other ways.
[01:04:43.190 --> 01:04:48.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I hope they do, because, you know, the American people need to be educated, and that's a very powerful tool.
[01:04:48.850 --> 01:04:54.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, most Americans were 100% behind the invasion of Panama, while the rest of the world thought it was a horrible thing.
[01:04:55.050 --> 01:05:04.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, because we got one, you know, type of news over here, while people in the rest of the world, they got, you know, they get an alternative.
[01:05:04.450 --> 01:05:09.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, there's left-wing parties, right-wing parties, and, you know, they get their points across.
[01:05:09.210 --> 01:05:13.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: Here, everything that we hear is basically what the administration wants to feed us.
[01:05:14.290 --> 01:05:15.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I agree.
[01:05:15.310 --> 01:05:18.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: The airwaves are getting less and less diverse all the time.
[01:05:19.010 --> 01:05:26.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's why I'm saying if some of these progressive organizations could pool their resources, it would be a very good thing, and they can get something started.
[01:05:26.790 --> 01:05:28.270]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, it's a good idea.
[01:05:28.430 --> 01:05:33.050]  [SPEAKER_27]: Hopefully, we'll see more of this in the future, but keep listening.
[01:05:33.250 --> 01:05:40.670]  [SPEAKER_27]: You might hear some of it when people decide that musical jukeboxes are a bit too much, too repetitious.
[01:05:40.670 --> 01:05:42.570]  [SPEAKER_27]: Maybe we'll see some more stations with ideas.
[01:05:42.710 --> 01:05:43.550]  [SPEAKER_27]: Thanks so much for calling, sir.
[01:05:44.070 --> 01:05:45.790]  [SPEAKER_27]: 279-3400 is our phone number.
[01:05:46.010 --> 01:05:46.650]  [SPEAKER_27]: Good morning.
[01:05:47.650 --> 01:05:48.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Goodbye.
[01:05:48.910 --> 01:05:49.350]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[01:05:49.950 --> 01:05:50.250]  [SPEAKER_27]: Okay.
[01:05:50.470 --> 01:05:52.010]  [SPEAKER_27]: Boy, that's an interesting person.
[01:05:53.130 --> 01:05:55.550]  [SPEAKER_27]: I've got to give him credit for waiting half an hour just to say goodbye.
[01:05:55.550 --> 01:05:56.510]  [SPEAKER_27]: That's really good.
[01:05:56.650 --> 01:05:57.430]  [SPEAKER_27]: Good morning.
[01:05:57.970 --> 01:05:58.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good morning.
[01:05:59.310 --> 01:06:00.070]  [SPEAKER_27]: Okay, that's better.
[01:06:00.730 --> 01:06:02.490]  [SPEAKER_27]: What's your comment?
[01:06:05.050 --> 01:06:26.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, in terms of public radio, public television being commercial, you were commenting earlier about the, like, for instance, Channel 13, that it used to be you'd see a little message going across, brought to you by mobile, very quick.
[01:06:27.290 --> 01:06:34.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now you see something like, brought to you by mobile, who brings you this and that and this, and there's a picture of it.
[01:06:34.790 --> 01:06:37.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it's, I'm wondering, you know...
[01:06:37.230 --> 01:06:38.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're commercials.
[01:06:38.450 --> 01:06:39.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, it's basically, it is a commercial.
[01:06:40.170 --> 01:06:41.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's definitely a commercial.
[01:06:41.450 --> 01:06:54.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, the only thing different between profit, something that is for profit, and that something is non-profit is, I guess, that for non-profit, supposedly, no one's supposed to be making any profit.
[01:06:54.710 --> 01:06:56.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: Of course, you know, people make salaries.
[01:06:57.170 --> 01:06:59.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, it's just a very gray area.
[01:06:59.730 --> 01:07:04.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: When it comes to profit, non-profit, it's just, it's just, you know, one's not paying any taxes.
[01:07:04.950 --> 01:07:08.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: The other one, supposedly, is paying taxes if they make a profit.
[01:07:08.910 --> 01:07:11.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, but it's definitely, you know, there's a difference.
[01:07:12.070 --> 01:07:14.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Obviously, there's a great difference in the programming.
[01:07:14.230 --> 01:07:21.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's a different... the people do have different interests than, you know, straight commercial broadcast casters, but it's still...
[01:07:22.210 --> 01:07:23.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, not that much difference.
[01:07:23.650 --> 01:07:30.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: By and large, I don't think there is very much difference between non-commercial radio and commercial radio.
[01:07:30.690 --> 01:07:34.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: There are a few stations here and there on the non-commercial dial that are different.
[01:07:34.750 --> 01:07:39.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: WBAI, I think, FMU, USB, PKN, the other stations.
[01:07:39.470 --> 01:07:47.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think most non-commercial radio stations, the larger public radio stations, in many ways are very similar to the commercial stations.
[01:07:47.210 --> 01:07:48.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: They choose a format.
[01:07:48.830 --> 01:07:50.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: They choose one approach.
[01:07:50.110 --> 01:07:51.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: They stick to that approach.
[01:07:52.470 --> 01:07:54.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: They try to be very, very predictable.
[01:07:55.030 --> 01:07:57.050]  [SPEAKER_27]: And they keep their studios very clean.
[01:07:57.430 --> 01:07:58.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's nice.
[01:07:58.410 --> 01:07:59.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: I've never seen your studio.
[01:07:59.730 --> 01:08:01.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm a new listener to WBAI.
[01:08:02.170 --> 01:08:04.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: I am, you know, not originally...
[01:08:04.490 --> 01:08:06.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: How long is this... I've been in New York about eight years.
[01:08:06.890 --> 01:08:08.810]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, we've just celebrated our 30th anniversary.
[01:08:09.150 --> 01:08:09.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: I see.
[01:08:10.010 --> 01:08:12.150]  [SPEAKER_27]: WBAI is what... is it 30 years old?
[01:08:12.410 --> 01:08:13.170]  [SPEAKER_27]: 30 years old this year.
[01:08:13.370 --> 01:08:14.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: I didn't know that.
[01:08:14.570 --> 01:08:15.650]  [SPEAKER_27]: I thought it was older than that.
[01:08:15.650 --> 01:08:23.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: I recently started listening to the station, and I'm pretty much what you would call an Orthodox Jew.
[01:08:23.770 --> 01:08:29.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: I disagree with a lot of the things, the Palestinian issue, the stance that the station takes.
[01:08:30.190 --> 01:08:35.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: But at the same time, for instance, today, I think it was today, I heard a program about UFOs.
[01:08:36.390 --> 01:08:37.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Was that today?
[01:08:37.510 --> 01:08:39.090]  [SPEAKER_27]: I wasn't listening, so I don't know.
[01:08:39.230 --> 01:08:54.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: You had a program about... basically had a doctor or professor come on and explain how the myth of UFOs is that he really showed how it's possible through the experiments that he did.
[01:08:54.990 --> 01:09:10.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: For instance, in a small town where they faked a UFO and they got the whole people to believe it, and the press, the local press, and then the national press came in and believed this UFO report and how people said that they saw it, too, and from all over the area,
[01:09:10.710 --> 01:09:30.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: and they proved how it could be such a thing with so many testimonies and this and that, that UFOs, as far as being from... there are UFOs that aren't identified flying objects, but as far as being from outer space, that it just may be a big scam in terms of people looking for attention or whatever.
[01:09:30.370 --> 01:09:33.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: I thought it was... you hear so much about the other...
[01:09:33.270 --> 01:09:33.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.
[01:09:33.990 --> 01:09:37.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Everybody... the point was, everybody is using UFOs.
[01:09:37.610 --> 01:09:37.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: Why?
[01:09:38.150 --> 01:09:40.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: Whether they believe it or not, they're using it for profit, right?
[01:09:40.790 --> 01:09:40.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: Sure.
[01:09:41.090 --> 01:09:42.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, to sell newspapers.
[01:09:42.850 --> 01:09:45.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: A guy in a radio station or a television station, he may not believe in UFOs, right?
[01:09:45.690 --> 01:09:55.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: But he's going to... he's going to tell everybody that, you know, it's true, so he can get some good ratings.
[01:09:55.450 --> 01:10:03.530]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, we don't do things in a conventional way here, and a lot of times we, you know, we present programs in ways that don't sell newspapers, that don't get ratings.
[01:10:03.530 --> 01:10:05.390]  [SPEAKER_27]: We do it to do good radio.
[01:10:05.490 --> 01:10:09.150]  [SPEAKER_27]: And a lot of times that's going to... it might alienate people.
[01:10:09.250 --> 01:10:10.690]  [SPEAKER_27]: It might make things controversial.
[01:10:11.110 --> 01:10:16.570]  [SPEAKER_27]: And what it does in the long run, though, is present new ideas and give you new ways of looking at things.
[01:10:16.970 --> 01:10:17.890]  [SPEAKER_27]: We're going to go to another call.
[01:10:17.970 --> 01:10:18.910]  [SPEAKER_27]: Thanks very much for calling, sir.
[01:10:19.210 --> 01:10:20.990]  [SPEAKER_27]: Our number is 279-3400.
[01:10:20.990 --> 01:10:23.430]  [SPEAKER_27]: Let's try to rip through these calls in the minutes we have left.
[01:10:23.670 --> 01:10:24.070]  [SPEAKER_27]: Good morning.
[01:10:24.510 --> 01:10:25.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, good morning.
[01:10:25.230 --> 01:10:32.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: I really had no idea that commercial radio could be so vicious, some of them so racist, really.
[01:10:32.570 --> 01:10:33.630]  [SPEAKER_27]: Commercial or non-commercial?
[01:10:33.970 --> 01:10:35.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Non-commercial, I meant to say.
[01:10:35.150 --> 01:10:35.330]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[01:10:35.770 --> 01:10:44.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I wanted to ask you, WNYC AM, they have advanced their output to 10,000 watts.
[01:10:44.730 --> 01:10:47.410]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, they just moved their frequency from 830 to 820.
[01:10:47.770 --> 01:10:50.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and they're going to be stepping on a lot of feet.
[01:10:50.370 --> 01:10:51.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: How's that going to go about?
[01:10:51.730 --> 01:10:53.050]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, I imagine that's why they moved.
[01:10:53.190 --> 01:10:56.050]  [SPEAKER_27]: I don't know if they'll be stepping on anybody at 820.
[01:10:56.730 --> 01:10:58.530]  [SPEAKER_27]: If I'm wrong, somebody let me know that.
[01:10:59.930 --> 01:11:05.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, theoretically, the FCC would not have approved it if they were stepping on a lot of people's feet.
[01:11:05.730 --> 01:11:06.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: I thought that it was still testing.
[01:11:07.130 --> 01:11:08.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is that what they're doing now?
[01:11:08.130 --> 01:11:09.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: See if they're overlapping right now?
[01:11:09.670 --> 01:11:10.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: They might be testing.
[01:11:10.690 --> 01:11:10.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
[01:11:10.850 --> 01:11:12.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: I know that they're going...
[01:11:12.070 --> 01:11:14.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Overlap is determined on paper before you even do it.
[01:11:15.030 --> 01:11:16.690]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah, that wouldn't be why they were testing in any event.
[01:11:16.770 --> 01:11:21.610]  [SPEAKER_27]: But I do think they're going to be doing something in the next couple that will expand their range.
[01:11:21.730 --> 01:11:23.110]  [SPEAKER_27]: However, I think that's a good idea.
[01:11:23.250 --> 01:11:28.030]  [SPEAKER_27]: I think national public radio on AM is something that isn't being done.
[01:11:28.250 --> 01:11:30.570]  [SPEAKER_27]: A lot of people with just AM radio should be able to get NPR.
[01:11:30.650 --> 01:11:32.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, why do we need more national public radio?
[01:11:32.930 --> 01:11:34.690]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, not just NPR, though.
[01:11:34.770 --> 01:11:36.450]  [SPEAKER_27]: I mean, there should be other stations on...
[01:11:36.450 --> 01:11:37.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: What did he say?
[01:11:37.690 --> 01:11:52.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: Part of what drives me crazy is that there's this attitude in national public radio that there's an acre in the United States that isn't served primarily by... meaning if it isn't served in the primary area of an NPR station, then that's a problem.
[01:11:52.450 --> 01:11:58.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why WSHU, I feel, has the audacity to try to set up three new NPR stations on Long Island.
[01:11:58.730 --> 01:12:04.630]  [SPEAKER_27]: I'd like to know, is there anybody out there that doesn't get NPR, that can't get national public radio?
[01:12:04.770 --> 01:12:05.670]  [SPEAKER_27]: I don't think so.
[01:12:05.670 --> 01:12:07.710]  [SPEAKER_27]: It's pretty well coded the whole place by now.
[01:12:08.490 --> 01:12:09.450]  [SPEAKER_27]: But you know what's interesting?
[01:12:10.090 --> 01:12:16.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: There's this attitude that the entire country has to have NPR, yet if there's ever a station...
[01:12:16.390 --> 01:12:17.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: The entire country doesn't get CBS.
[01:12:18.190 --> 01:12:24.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, if there's ever a small station that's the only station like it in the country, you know, those are the stations that have problems.
[01:12:24.150 --> 01:12:28.250]  [SPEAKER_27]: What's interesting is, the caller brought up an interesting point with AM, National Public Radio.
[01:12:28.470 --> 01:12:34.250]  [SPEAKER_27]: I happened to be in Wisconsin a few weeks ago, and they have a few AM NPR stations there, and I was listening to it.
[01:12:34.270 --> 01:12:39.030]  [SPEAKER_27]: I wasn't aware that I was listening to the National Public Radio, and I thought I was listening to ABC News or something.
[01:12:39.270 --> 01:12:41.590]  [SPEAKER_27]: And I said to myself, wow, this sounds so different.
[01:12:41.850 --> 01:12:45.050]  [SPEAKER_27]: And it's the only reason it sounded different was because it was AM instead of FM.
[01:12:45.150 --> 01:12:47.450]  [SPEAKER_27]: The voices didn't sound as crisp and as clean.
[01:12:47.770 --> 01:12:50.450]  [SPEAKER_27]: And I said to myself, boy, I wonder, is that the only difference?
[01:12:50.450 --> 01:12:52.550]  [SPEAKER_27]: The fact that NPR sounds crisp and clean?
[01:12:52.670 --> 01:12:55.110]  [SPEAKER_27]: Is that why more people think it's better?
[01:12:55.230 --> 01:12:56.610]  [SPEAKER_27]: I mean, it's got to be more than that.
[01:12:56.710 --> 01:12:59.070]  [SPEAKER_27]: But still, it made me think for a minute there.
[01:12:59.530 --> 01:13:00.350]  [SPEAKER_27]: Thanks very much for calling.
[01:13:00.950 --> 01:13:01.910]  [SPEAKER_27]: 279-3400.
[01:13:01.910 --> 01:13:02.450]  [SPEAKER_27]: Good morning.
[01:13:03.670 --> 01:13:04.610]  [SPEAKER_27]: Is anyone there?
[01:13:05.430 --> 01:13:07.270]  [SPEAKER_27]: Oh, we have another caller that fell asleep.
[01:13:08.110 --> 01:13:09.810]  [SPEAKER_27]: We get a lot of those this time of night.
[01:13:10.210 --> 01:13:10.930]  [SPEAKER_27]: Anyone there?
[01:13:11.270 --> 01:13:13.110]  [SPEAKER_27]: 3, 2, 1.
[01:13:13.710 --> 01:13:14.150]  [SPEAKER_27]: Okay.
[01:13:14.390 --> 01:13:14.890]  [SPEAKER_27]: Good morning.
[01:13:16.910 --> 01:13:18.770]  [SPEAKER_27]: Oh, that was my fault.
[01:13:18.830 --> 01:13:19.650]  [SPEAKER_27]: I turned up the wrong dial.
[01:13:19.710 --> 01:13:20.150]  [SPEAKER_27]: Oh, boy.
[01:13:20.230 --> 01:13:20.550]  [SPEAKER_27]: I'm sorry.
[01:13:20.690 --> 01:13:25.410]  [SPEAKER_27]: Whoever I just called said was asleep, they weren't asleep probably, and I just hung up on them.
[01:13:25.550 --> 01:13:26.470]  [SPEAKER_27]: You can call back.
[01:13:26.630 --> 01:13:27.850]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh, 279-3400.
[01:13:27.950 --> 01:13:28.210]  [SPEAKER_27]: Good morning.
[01:13:28.690 --> 01:13:30.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I apologize for taking that caller's place.
[01:13:30.850 --> 01:13:31.310]  [SPEAKER_27]: Oh, well.
[01:13:31.690 --> 01:13:32.350]  [SPEAKER_27]: Nothing you can do.
[01:13:32.930 --> 01:13:42.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was... you were... some other caller was talking about college formats and such, and I don't have any special equipment on my house, so I can't even pick up the stations he was talking about.
[01:13:43.130 --> 01:13:47.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: But the one college station I do listen to, and quite frequently, is WKCR.
[01:13:48.290 --> 01:13:48.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[01:13:48.850 --> 01:13:50.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I listen to KCR a lot.
[01:13:50.290 --> 01:13:52.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, Columbia University radio.
[01:13:52.430 --> 01:14:09.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I think that's the ideal format, which I don't really know how it works, but it seems to be that it's run out of their American music department, and Phil Schaap is the director of it, and he seems to have a good bit of the airtime, but he kind of rules it benignly,
[01:14:10.030 --> 01:14:15.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: and they organize lots of festivals, and he apparently has quite a bit of lineage in his field.
[01:14:16.110 --> 01:14:20.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: His father was the translator of Lahat Jazz, the first translator.
[01:14:20.510 --> 01:14:22.250]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, yeah, KCR is a good station.
[01:14:22.250 --> 01:14:25.630]  [SPEAKER_27]: KCR is a good state, but they're 50,000 watts, you know, and I don't know.
[01:14:25.770 --> 01:14:29.950]  [SPEAKER_27]: That's a lot for a college station, but I don't know.
[01:14:30.070 --> 01:14:32.030]  [SPEAKER_27]: No more power to them, but enough power as it is.
[01:14:32.090 --> 01:14:32.570]  [SPEAKER_27]: Thanks for calling.
[01:14:32.670 --> 01:14:35.290]  [SPEAKER_27]: We want to get to some more calls before we run out of time.
[01:14:35.290 --> 01:14:35.770]  [SPEAKER_27]: Good morning.
[01:14:37.090 --> 01:14:37.670]  [SPEAKER_27]: Oh, okay.
[01:14:37.670 --> 01:14:38.250]  [SPEAKER_27]: That made it easy.
[01:14:38.830 --> 01:14:39.410]  [SPEAKER_27]: Good morning.
[01:14:39.890 --> 01:14:41.150]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hi, this is WBAI.
[01:14:41.210 --> 01:14:41.790]  [SPEAKER_27]: That's what it is.
[01:14:41.850 --> 01:14:42.130]  [SPEAKER_27]: Go ahead.
[01:14:42.390 --> 01:14:49.210]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hi, my name is Owen Siegel, and I'm events coordinator at a cooperative gallery located in Williamsburg in Brooklyn.
[01:14:49.590 --> 01:14:49.910]  [SPEAKER_27]: Okay.
[01:14:50.250 --> 01:14:55.630]  [SPEAKER_17]: And we would love to have an info fundraising night for WFMU sometime in April.
[01:14:56.270 --> 01:14:59.270]  [SPEAKER_27]: Okay, well, I suggest you get a hold of WFMU then.
[01:14:59.430 --> 01:15:05.150]  [SPEAKER_27]: We're going to give out the address and phone number again, and... Can you give out Ken Freeman's number?
[01:15:05.390 --> 01:15:10.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, my office number is 201-678-8264.
[01:15:11.630 --> 01:15:12.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: 6-4-8264.
[01:15:12.750 --> 01:15:14.510]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, uh, because I know, um...
[01:15:14.510 --> 01:15:22.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, call me at... I don't know if it's possible, but, you know, because we're doing our fundraiser just starting in about 10 days, but give me a call at the station tomorrow.
[01:15:22.830 --> 01:15:25.930]  [SPEAKER_27]: All these stations could use people like you, that's for sure.
[01:15:26.250 --> 01:15:26.530]  [SPEAKER_27]: Okay.
[01:15:26.690 --> 01:15:27.370]  [SPEAKER_27]: Thanks for your interest.
[01:15:28.410 --> 01:15:29.950]  [SPEAKER_27]: 279... Well, I'm not going to give out the phone number anymore.
[01:15:29.950 --> 01:15:30.430]  [SPEAKER_27]: Good morning.
[01:15:31.970 --> 01:15:32.830]  [SPEAKER_27]: Is anyone there?
[01:15:33.510 --> 01:15:33.910]  [SPEAKER_26]: Hi.
[01:15:34.250 --> 01:15:34.550]  [SPEAKER_27]: Go ahead.
[01:15:34.810 --> 01:15:39.690]  [SPEAKER_26]: Um, I just want to say that I've been a WFMU listener on and off since about 1967.
[01:15:39.690 --> 01:15:40.610]  [SPEAKER_26]: Wow.
[01:15:40.930 --> 01:15:52.910]  [SPEAKER_26]: And I live in Brooklyn, and I've heard many great programs on FMU, starting from Vince Skelza and people that you have on now, like The Immigrant and other great programmers.
[01:15:53.170 --> 01:16:07.630]  [SPEAKER_26]: And I think that there's not enough true alternative, um, radio on the air like WBAI and FMU, and I really think that people should listen to your station, um, and, uh, get behind you and keep you on the air.
[01:16:07.630 --> 01:16:07.630]  Sure.
[01:16:07.790 --> 01:16:08.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thanks.
[01:16:08.530 --> 01:16:10.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: I, I, I hope people do, too.
[01:16:11.190 --> 01:16:11.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[01:16:11.770 --> 01:16:13.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for, for sharing that with us.
[01:16:13.670 --> 01:16:13.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:16:13.850 --> 01:16:16.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: FMU's frequency, again, is 91.1 FM.
[01:16:16.730 --> 01:16:19.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the, uh, the audio line is back up.
[01:16:19.990 --> 01:16:27.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: It was down for a few days there, but, uh, to find FMU on the dial, you can always call 201-644-2339.
[01:16:28.330 --> 01:16:29.450]  [SPEAKER_27]: Anywhere in, anywhere in the world?
[01:16:29.550 --> 01:16:31.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: Anywhere in the world, and you'll hear whatever we're playing.
[01:16:31.430 --> 01:16:32.670]  [SPEAKER_27]: Good morning.
[01:16:32.970 --> 01:16:33.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello.
[01:16:33.630 --> 01:16:33.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:16:34.170 --> 01:16:55.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, maybe my question, uh, uh, is something, uh, different, but, uh, I, I happen to, uh, subscribe myself the same day that the Buddhist, uh, uh, uh, uh, spiritual, uh, uh, uh, teacher from Tibet came to your station.
[01:16:56.590 --> 01:17:07.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, uh, I would like to know whether, whether they got to some other station or it was only to your station that came, because that, that sounds to me a privilege.
[01:17:07.970 --> 01:17:11.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Something, something very important, you know.
[01:17:11.970 --> 01:17:12.250]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[01:17:12.430 --> 01:17:15.250]  [SPEAKER_27]: I'll, I'll, I'll let you have that one, Ken, and that's going to be our last call.
[01:17:15.410 --> 01:17:17.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: I, I think that's directed to WBAI.
[01:17:17.490 --> 01:17:18.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think he's talking about FMU.
[01:17:19.150 --> 01:17:19.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, he wasn't.
[01:17:19.650 --> 01:17:22.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you have a Buddhist leader who recently came for an interview to WBAI?
[01:17:22.730 --> 01:17:26.810]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, you know, I don't, I, I deliberately don't follow the internal politics here, because, uh...
[01:17:26.810 --> 01:17:28.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, this guy heard a program.
[01:17:28.370 --> 01:17:30.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: I, I don't know anything about that program, sir.
[01:17:30.450 --> 01:17:39.610]  [SPEAKER_27]: See, WBAI is such a, uh, place that, that we could have literally a hundred programs in a day, and there's no way that one person on the air knows everything that goes on, but, uh...
[01:17:39.610 --> 01:17:40.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: Even on their own program.
[01:17:40.770 --> 01:17:41.930]  [SPEAKER_27]: Even on my own program, yeah.
[01:17:42.130 --> 01:17:42.750]  [SPEAKER_27]: Tell me about it.
[01:17:42.970 --> 01:17:47.350]  [SPEAKER_27]: But I suggest that, uh, that person give a call to Andrew Phillips, our program director.
[01:17:47.610 --> 01:17:48.350]  [SPEAKER_27]: He knows everything.
[01:17:48.910 --> 01:17:49.490]  [SPEAKER_27]: Certainly does.
[01:17:49.650 --> 01:17:50.150]  [SPEAKER_27]: That's his job.
[01:17:50.550 --> 01:17:53.050]  [SPEAKER_27]: Um, and that's pretty much going to do it for us.
[01:17:58.240 --> 01:17:59.760]  [SPEAKER_27]: And it's just about one o'clock.
[01:17:59.880 --> 01:18:04.240]  [SPEAKER_27]: Bob Fass is breathing down my neck, and we're ready to, uh, to call the night.
[01:18:05.220 --> 01:18:06.060]  [SPEAKER_27]: Five extra minutes?
[01:18:06.340 --> 01:18:06.960]  [SPEAKER_27]: Oh, great.
[01:18:07.100 --> 01:18:07.740]  [SPEAKER_27]: You're a god.
[01:18:07.880 --> 01:18:08.420]  [SPEAKER_27]: I have a really great program.
[01:18:08.420 --> 01:18:09.140]  [SPEAKER_27]: Thank you, Bob.
[01:18:09.420 --> 01:18:14.240]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, Bob's got a really great show, so folks, uh, for the extra five minutes, make sure you, you stay up for Bob.
[01:18:14.240 --> 01:18:15.100]  [SPEAKER_27]: So, yeah.
[01:18:15.760 --> 01:18:16.560]  [SPEAKER_27]: Um, okay.
[01:18:16.760 --> 01:18:23.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I really want to thank WBAI for helping FMU out with this, and, uh, PKN2, and USB, are also doing that.
[01:18:23.900 --> 01:18:24.740]  [SPEAKER_27]: Community radio, you know?
[01:18:24.840 --> 01:18:25.380]  [SPEAKER_27]: That's what it is.
[01:18:26.000 --> 01:18:30.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, it's really driving a lot of stations together, and it's driving a lot of people together at FMU.
[01:18:31.240 --> 01:18:40.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, FMU's either going to become much stronger, and we're going to make it into the, uh, 21st century, or, uh, we're going to be wiped out.
[01:18:40.340 --> 01:18:42.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, uh, I think we're going to make it.
[01:18:42.240 --> 01:18:44.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be tough, and it's going to take a long time.
[01:18:44.340 --> 01:18:48.060]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, you guys have had a lot of hurdles in the past, but you've always done it somehow.
[01:18:48.320 --> 01:18:48.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:18:48.480 --> 01:18:48.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:18:48.680 --> 01:18:49.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think we're going to do it.
[01:18:50.080 --> 01:18:51.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's definitely snowballing.
[01:18:51.840 --> 01:18:52.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[01:18:52.140 --> 01:18:54.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Things are, things are, uh, looking up.
[01:18:54.140 --> 01:18:56.420]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, let's give out that address one more time and the phone number.
[01:18:56.720 --> 01:18:57.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:18:57.340 --> 01:19:07.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: The, uh, address at FMU is WFMU, Uppsala College, East Orange, New Jersey, 07019.
[01:19:07.820 --> 01:19:13.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, boy, I'm saying that three seconds before one o'clock, so I suppose I should do a WBAI idea.
[01:19:13.480 --> 01:19:13.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead.
[01:19:14.140 --> 01:19:15.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is WBAI New York City.
[01:19:16.360 --> 01:19:18.180]  [SPEAKER_27]: That's something you've always wanted to do, isn't it?
[01:19:18.400 --> 01:19:18.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:19:19.040 --> 01:19:19.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:19:19.200 --> 01:19:23.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: I give out WBAI t-shirts and NYC coffee mugs on my FMU marathon shows.
[01:19:23.720 --> 01:19:26.040]  [SPEAKER_27]: Oh, that's, that's just a special part of the world we're in.
[01:19:26.760 --> 01:19:37.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the, uh, the marathon phone number at FMU, which, uh, we'll be taking pledges on, is, uh, 201-266-7911.
[01:19:38.000 --> 01:19:39.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll be starting a week from Monday.
[01:19:40.180 --> 01:19:41.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: And running for...
[01:19:41.340 --> 01:19:49.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: And if you have any questions about FMU or anything, you can always call the office number at FMU, which is 201-678-8264.
[01:19:50.740 --> 01:19:51.100]  [SPEAKER_27]: Okay.
[01:19:51.280 --> 01:20:07.220]  [SPEAKER_27]: And, uh, to give out the information about those other stations, too, uh, WUSB is, uh, uh, trying to raise funds for its, uh, transmitter move to increase its, uh, signal coverage and hopefully keep its listeners from, uh, being taken over by other entities.
[01:20:07.800 --> 01:20:11.840]  [SPEAKER_27]: And, uh, they're having a marathon from April 5th through April 14th.
[01:20:12.160 --> 01:20:17.800]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh, they're at 90.1 FM, and you can pretty much get them in Suffolk County and parts of Connecticut and Nassau.
[01:20:17.800 --> 01:20:23.300]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh, and, uh, their phone number is 516-632-6498.
[01:20:23.500 --> 01:20:28.740]  [SPEAKER_27]: And you can write to them at WUSB, Stony Brook, New York, 11790.
[01:20:29.560 --> 01:20:34.120]  [SPEAKER_27]: And WPKN, University of Bridgeport, uh, Bridgeport, Connecticut.
[01:20:34.660 --> 01:20:38.660]  [SPEAKER_27]: Um, their phone number is 203-576-4895.
[01:20:39.360 --> 01:20:55.900]  [SPEAKER_27]: Another station trying to be, uh, a community station and, and keep, uh, the non-commercial, uh, corporate equivalent, I guess, uh, the, the, the giants at bay a little longer and just keep, uh, some original sounds coming.
[01:20:56.320 --> 01:21:01.540]  [SPEAKER_27]: So, um, hopefully listeners will support all these stations as well as WBAI, of course.
[01:21:01.800 --> 01:21:05.660]  [SPEAKER_27]: And, uh, if you haven't subscribed to WBAI yet, of course, we urge you to do so.
[01:21:05.860 --> 01:21:06.100]  [SPEAKER_27]: P.O.
[01:21:06.140 --> 01:21:11.260]  [SPEAKER_27]: Box 12345, Church Street Station, New York, 10249.
[01:21:11.640 --> 01:21:14.420]  [SPEAKER_27]: Remember, we're all, we've all got to stick together on these things.
[01:21:14.420 --> 01:21:17.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, prevent, prevent the gentrification of the airwaves.
[01:21:17.520 --> 01:21:18.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a good slogan.
[01:21:18.500 --> 01:21:19.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: That would make a good bumper sticker.
[01:21:20.020 --> 01:21:20.380]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah.
[01:21:20.380 --> 01:21:21.320]  [SPEAKER_27]: We could market that.
[01:21:21.640 --> 01:21:23.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, here we've been looking for a slogan for two months.
[01:21:24.000 --> 01:21:25.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we just found it.
[01:21:25.160 --> 01:21:25.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[01:21:25.320 --> 01:21:27.200]  [SPEAKER_27]: An 18 to 24-year-old, I think, would go for that.
[01:21:27.460 --> 01:21:28.840]  [SPEAKER_27]: I mean, it's just like gentrification.
[01:21:28.960 --> 01:21:34.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just that anything that's the slightest bit weird or unusual has to fight for its life.
[01:21:34.520 --> 01:21:34.740]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[01:21:35.120 --> 01:21:43.140]  [SPEAKER_27]: So if you're the slightest bit weird or unusual, help us fight for our lives by, uh, supporting non-commercial radio, community radio, wherever you go.
[01:21:44.040 --> 01:21:46.080]  [SPEAKER_27]: And, uh, Ken, I want to thank you for coming by.
[01:21:46.460 --> 01:21:47.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for having me.
[01:21:47.660 --> 01:21:49.100]  [SPEAKER_27]: Hope it, uh, hope it works out.
[01:21:49.160 --> 01:21:49.980]  [SPEAKER_27]: You'll keep us updated.
[01:21:50.420 --> 01:21:52.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and thank you, WBAI, for being there.
[01:21:53.300 --> 01:21:53.480]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[01:21:53.960 --> 01:21:55.340]  [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah, three fingers means what?
[01:21:55.600 --> 01:21:57.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: It means, uh, I gave you five.
[01:21:57.340 --> 01:21:58.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're only taking two.
[01:21:58.420 --> 01:22:00.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, uh, anything else you want to...
[01:22:00.960 --> 01:22:02.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: You want to take more, a couple more calls?
[01:22:02.820 --> 01:22:04.180]  [SPEAKER_27]: I have to go back into delay if I take another call.
[01:22:04.180 --> 01:22:04.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay, forget it.
[01:22:05.000 --> 01:22:05.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: No more calls.
[01:22:05.380 --> 01:22:08.200]  [SPEAKER_27]: I mean, I could take a call without going into delay, I suppose, and see what happens.
[01:22:08.200 --> 01:22:08.740]  [SPEAKER_27]: Let's try it.
[01:22:08.820 --> 01:22:09.140]  [SPEAKER_27]: Good evening.
[01:22:09.360 --> 01:22:09.760]  [SPEAKER_27]: Good morning.
[01:22:10.060 --> 01:22:12.160]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, I was going to ask you one quick question.
[01:22:12.320 --> 01:22:12.540]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[01:22:12.720 --> 01:22:17.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, I see, like, uh, that college stations have an inherent, you know, talent pool, kind of.
[01:22:18.200 --> 01:22:22.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: Now, WBAI, they're kind of, it's people that are kind of like college students who don't attend college.
[01:22:23.420 --> 01:22:23.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[01:22:24.020 --> 01:22:37.440]  [SPEAKER_19]: Um, does, uh, the fact that WBAI is, like, in the middle of the dial in prime real estate, does that make a big, big difference, or basically what I'm asking, how does it survive in a, in a coming, I think the universities have an unfair advantage?
[01:22:38.240 --> 01:22:38.640]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well...
[01:22:38.640 --> 01:22:45.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: And, uh, WBAI is, uh, it survives equally, if not better than they do, and I got to hang up because I'm writing a paper.
[01:22:45.440 --> 01:22:45.780]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[01:22:45.960 --> 01:22:46.680]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, you do that.
[01:22:47.140 --> 01:22:52.580]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh, WBAI is in the middle of the commercial dial, uh, with 50,000 watts in the middle of New York City.
[01:22:52.700 --> 01:22:54.460]  [SPEAKER_27]: That's got to count for something.
[01:22:54.700 --> 01:22:56.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, WBAI is non-commercial by choice.
[01:22:57.400 --> 01:23:00.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, college stations are usually, have non-commercial licenses.
[01:23:00.940 --> 01:23:04.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, um, not all universities give college stations money.
[01:23:04.920 --> 01:23:09.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think the caller was assuming that all college stations are supported by the universities, and they're not.
[01:23:10.120 --> 01:23:11.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: WPKN is not anymore.
[01:23:11.940 --> 01:23:13.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: WFMU is not at all.
[01:23:13.760 --> 01:23:18.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, a lot of college stations rely heavily on community support, just like WBAI does.
[01:23:19.140 --> 01:23:19.340]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[01:23:20.040 --> 01:23:20.520]  [SPEAKER_27]: All right.
[01:23:20.600 --> 01:23:25.120]  [SPEAKER_27]: Well, I think that's, uh, it's pretty much, uh, as much as we can say tonight.
[01:23:25.820 --> 01:23:29.140]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh, but I would like to have you back, uh, sometime in the near future.
[01:23:29.140 --> 01:23:36.880]  [SPEAKER_27]: After, especially after the marathon, after, after all these marathons, after the WUSB marathon, after the WFMU marathon, and maybe we can get some money from PKN down here, too.
[01:23:36.960 --> 01:23:38.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we'll have to come back and take stock.
[01:23:38.860 --> 01:23:39.100]  [SPEAKER_27]: Uh-huh.
[01:23:39.520 --> 01:23:39.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:23:39.920 --> 01:23:42.220]  [SPEAKER_27]: See what the state of non-commercial radio is.
[01:23:42.240 --> 01:23:46.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just hope WBAI listeners check out FMU, if they haven't heard it yet, 91.1 FM.
[01:23:46.700 --> 01:23:48.860]  [SPEAKER_27]: And check out other stations, too, and get back to us.
[01:23:48.900 --> 01:23:51.700]  [SPEAKER_27]: Let us know what's out there, and what's horrible, and what's good.
[01:23:51.820 --> 01:23:53.260]  [SPEAKER_27]: Maybe we can all learn something from it.
[01:23:53.600 --> 01:23:53.980]  [SPEAKER_27]: All right?
[01:23:54.140 --> 01:23:55.340]  [SPEAKER_27]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[01:23:55.420 --> 01:23:56.560]  [SPEAKER_27]: I'll be back again in two weeks.
[01:23:56.680 --> 01:23:58.660]  [SPEAKER_27]: Stay tuned for Bob Fass, and, uh...
[01:23:59.360 --> 01:24:01.320]  [SPEAKER_27]: Forgive me, I had to play this song.
[01:24:01.440 --> 01:24:04.480]  [SPEAKER_27]: I played it last time, but it's just, oh, it's just so perfect, you know?
[01:24:05.000 --> 01:24:06.460]  [SPEAKER_27]: Elvis Costello, Radio Radio.
[01:24:06.880 --> 01:24:07.900]  [SPEAKER_27]: Good night, everybody.
[01:24:10.640 --> 01:24:12.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was chilling in the show.
[01:24:15.740 --> 01:24:17.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: I radio advised.
[01:24:17.620 --> 01:24:23.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: With every one of those late-night stations playing songs, bringing tears to my eyes.
[01:24:23.840 --> 01:24:29.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was seriously thinking about hiding a receiver when the switch broke because it's old.
[01:24:31.140 --> 01:24:33.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're saying things out of salvation.
[01:24:34.560 --> 01:24:35.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Radio is waiting.
[01:24:36.180 --> 01:24:36.280]  I said,
[01:24:44.510 --> 01:24:46.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: don't give you any choice, because they did that.
[01:24:46.770 --> 01:24:47.170]  It's true.
[01:25:01.500 --> 01:25:04.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: I want to fight the hand that feeds
[01:25:23.400 --> 01:25:26.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: by indifference and the promise of an early bed.
[01:25:27.220 --> 01:25:29.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: You either shut up or get cut out.
[01:25:29.160 --> 01:25:30.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: They don't want to hear about it.
[01:25:30.960 --> 01:25:33.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's only inches on the reel to reel.
[01:25:34.260 --> 01:25:40.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the radio is in the hands of such a lot of fools trying to anesthetize the way that you feel.
[01:25:40.140 --> 01:25:42.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Radio Radio is a sound salvation.
[01:25:43.780 --> 01:25:45.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Radio is playing us.
[01:25:53.540 --> 01:25:56.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: But they don't give you any choice, because they did that.
[01:25:56.500 --> 01:25:56.720]  It's true.
[01:25:56.940 --> 01:26:00.720]  You said that they did that.
[01:26:00.760 --> 01:26:01.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: You were told.
[01:26:02.140 --> 01:26:04.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: You better listen to the radio.
[01:26:06.900 --> 01:26:08.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: What is my radio?
[01:26:22.470 --> 01:26:24.210]  [SPEAKER_20]: This is WBAI in New York.
[01:26:54.000 --> 01:27:00.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's a sign-on of a station called Radio Freedom that I'm playing.
[01:27:00.500 --> 01:27:04.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: I thought that was kind of appropriate for the previous discussion.
[01:27:05.320 --> 01:27:10.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: But I'm bursting with things to talk about this morning.
[01:27:10.780 --> 01:27:13.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: So maybe I'll just fade it down for a little bit.
[01:27:18.040 --> 01:27:20.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: The squat got burnt down today.
[01:27:20.520 --> 01:27:22.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: I guess you probably heard about that.
[01:27:22.200 --> 01:27:23.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: We'll be talking about that.
[01:27:23.520 --> 01:27:31.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, you know, I'm working with the Living Theater doing a play about the subject of homelessness.
[01:27:32.460 --> 01:27:41.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I just had this tremendous, awful, catastrophic assault on my brain today.
[01:27:42.040 --> 01:27:54.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: As I was leaving, running to get to the station, somebody waves to me, this long, tall, skinny, really skinny kid in a beret.
[01:27:56.100 --> 01:27:58.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: And he says, Don't you recognize me?
[01:27:59.180 --> 01:28:09.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I go up to him, and I see it's the kid who used to live two apartments away.
[01:28:11.080 --> 01:28:14.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, you know, the landlord got greedy.
[01:28:15.720 --> 01:28:16.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: One time, this kid...
[01:28:16.960 --> 01:28:19.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Now, this kid is somebody who...
[01:28:20.500 --> 01:28:22.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: He grew up under my window, you know?
[01:28:22.780 --> 01:28:25.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: He was, like, nine years old, playing ball in the street.
[01:28:25.760 --> 01:28:31.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I was saying, Oh, God, I could never sleep with those kids playing ball in the street under my window.
[01:28:31.220 --> 01:28:36.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, and there he is, like, five or six years later.
[01:28:36.400 --> 01:28:37.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: And he's homeless.
[01:28:38.540 --> 01:28:43.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: And he's living, I don't know, in some shelter, in some burrow outside.
[01:28:43.720 --> 01:28:45.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: He tells me, Don't you recognize me?
[01:28:45.940 --> 01:28:51.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: And he says, Uh, my God, he grew up under my nose.
[01:28:51.420 --> 01:28:54.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: And now he's, he's, uh, he's out there.
[01:28:54.960 --> 01:28:58.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, I don't know.
[01:28:58.860 --> 01:29:01.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, um, this is a very serious problem.
[01:29:01.960 --> 01:29:10.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: I hope Mayor Dinkins will do something about it, beside, uh, what Pete Hamill said he was doing the other night.
[01:29:10.420 --> 01:29:12.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: Pete Hamill talking to, My God, Ed Koch!
[01:29:13.040 --> 01:29:14.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: Where did they drag him in from?
[01:29:14.660 --> 01:29:21.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: I guess if they can bring back Richard Nixon, Ed Koch can also be a public figure.
[01:29:21.400 --> 01:29:22.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: But I thought we were done with him.
[01:29:22.980 --> 01:29:27.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, but no, there he was on, uh, my TV set.
[01:29:28.520 --> 01:29:33.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: And what he was doing was, uh, saying, Well, weren't you glad when it was more exciting?
[01:29:34.200 --> 01:29:35.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, when it wasn't so boring?
[01:29:37.460 --> 01:29:41.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, the other, there was Joyce Pernick from The Times.
[01:29:41.740 --> 01:29:45.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: And she was sort of trying to be polite, but she was a little exasperated.
[01:29:45.680 --> 01:29:50.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: And she was saying, Well, what, you know, New York had enough of you.
[01:29:51.140 --> 01:29:52.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: Enough of you.
[01:29:52.260 --> 01:29:53.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Enough of you.
[01:29:54.140 --> 01:29:56.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: And he didn't really get it, you know.
[01:29:56.240 --> 01:30:06.500]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, it was, uh, Pete Hamill saying, Well, it's true, the city is kind of, feels like it's sedated now, under Dinkins.
[01:30:07.400 --> 01:30:08.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know.
[01:30:09.340 --> 01:30:16.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't mean to say exactly that I want to be sedated, so I don't have to, like, you know, clutch my...
[01:30:18.460 --> 01:30:30.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: the soul of my throat, you know, so many times during the day in anguish at what's happening to human beings who were in our city.
[01:30:30.980 --> 01:30:36.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, I ought to, like, say something about this, too, because I think this is really a big part of it.
[01:30:37.120 --> 01:30:40.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: This kid happens to be Afro-American.
[01:30:40.900 --> 01:30:46.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, also, like many Afro-Americans, he's also European.
[01:30:46.620 --> 01:30:48.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know how it is?
[01:30:49.720 --> 01:30:59.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, uh, the kid he grew up with, who's still living in the apartment on the street, also, I knew since he was nine, happens to be white.
[01:31:00.440 --> 01:31:01.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: And he's still there.
[01:31:02.580 --> 01:31:04.340]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know, I think that's...
[01:31:04.940 --> 01:31:07.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: that's really a big part of it, you know.
[01:31:09.600 --> 01:31:10.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hi, you're on the radio.
[01:31:11.680 --> 01:31:12.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: Huh?
[01:31:12.240 --> 01:31:13.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, hi, John.
[01:31:13.680 --> 01:31:17.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: Can you tell us something about the squat that, uh, burnt down?
[01:31:17.220 --> 01:31:27.780]  [SPEAKER_24]: I will, actually, but I just wanted to give you, um, a really, um, um, fast, uh, update on something that just happened a few hours ago on the Lower East Side.
[01:31:28.380 --> 01:31:39.360]  [SPEAKER_24]: Um, there was another of a continuing series of attacks on people by skinheads in the Lower East Side a few hours ago, and in this case, I...
[01:31:39.360 --> 01:31:43.420]  [SPEAKER_24]: if my information is correct, they killed someone, and...