Off The Hook - 1990-04-26

[00:03.790 --> 00:05.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Newscasts for weeks.
[00:05.910 --> 00:19.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: While the pay's not great for the Angolite staffers here, they recently got a raise to seven cents an hour, there's little doubt among them that the work they do is important and that it always maintains the highest standards of journalism.
[00:19.830 --> 00:22.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Floyd Webb is serving a life sentence for murder.
[00:22.530 --> 00:27.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: When we write articles, we don't just write them just to fill up pages in a magazine.
[00:27.610 --> 00:30.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: We write them to have results.
[00:30.630 --> 00:32.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: We write them to have impact.
[00:32.910 --> 00:36.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's why we're known for the type of journalism we're known for.
[00:36.190 --> 00:40.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: We tell it just like it is, whether it's inmates or whether it's free people.
[00:40.330 --> 00:44.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: When I say free people, I mean prison officials or prison employees.
[00:44.190 --> 00:44.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: It doesn't matter.
[00:45.030 --> 00:47.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, we tell it like it is.
[00:47.410 --> 00:49.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: And that's what's kept us alive for all these years.
[00:49.810 --> 00:50.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm David Isang.
[00:53.630 --> 01:00.250]  [SPEAKER_00]: Next week, the governor of Louisiana will meet with Angolite editor Wilbert Rito to decide whether to grant him clemency.
[01:00.750 --> 01:02.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: Rito's been in prison for 29 years.
[01:04.810 --> 01:08.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's some of the news for Thursday, April 26th, 1990.
[01:09.370 --> 01:11.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: The news was engineered by Dred Scott Keyes.
[01:11.910 --> 01:14.430]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was produced with Julie Cohen and Donald Rouse.
[01:14.690 --> 01:20.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Amy Goodman in New York with Tara Seiler in Washington for WBAI listener-supported news.
[01:30.880 --> 01:39.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you enjoyed the program you just heard and would like to help support programming just as informative or provocative, here's how you can help.
[01:39.440 --> 01:49.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can make a pledge for a one-year subscription at $45 by dialing our toll-free number, 1-800-828-1700.
[01:49.880 --> 01:54.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: That number again is 1-800-828-1700.
[01:55.320 --> 01:59.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: WBAI is listener-supported, commercial-free, independent radio.
[01:59.660 --> 02:01.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: We need your support.
[02:01.360 --> 02:04.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Without it, programs like the one you just heard couldn't air.
[02:05.180 --> 02:09.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: Our number again is 1-800-828-1700.
[02:10.320 --> 02:11.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Give us your support today.
[02:12.200 --> 02:12.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thanks.
[02:17.980 --> 02:22.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if we had to air commercials, you'd never be able to hear the program you're about to hear now.
[02:22.660 --> 02:26.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi, this is Emmanuel Goldstein, and you're about to enter the fifth corner.
[02:27.980 --> 02:29.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can just smell the bacon.
[02:56.020 --> 03:02.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: The high street shop, the board it up, and the terrace it is penced in.
[03:03.140 --> 03:08.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: See-through shields, a wall to cross, the way that you came in.
[03:09.400 --> 03:15.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: But there's no need to get excited, as the lorries bring the bacon in.
[03:15.880 --> 03:20.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Cause the housewives are all singing, groovy time.
[03:25.580 --> 03:29.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: They discover one black side a day.
[03:29.700 --> 03:32.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: The mugs don't march, they run.
[03:32.940 --> 03:36.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: So you can excuse, the nervous trigger man.
[03:36.320 --> 03:38.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Just as once, we're jumping the gun.
[03:39.420 --> 03:42.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: They were picking up the dead.
[03:42.800 --> 03:45.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Out of the broken glove.
[03:45.380 --> 03:47.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, it's number one.
[03:48.180 --> 03:50.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: The radio set, groovy times.
[03:51.080 --> 03:53.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: I've come too far.
[03:56.840 --> 03:58.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Groovy times.
[04:00.180 --> 04:02.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Groovy times.
[04:03.380 --> 04:05.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Groovy times.
[04:23.820 --> 04:30.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: The intake is on the uptake, and it's underage a pretty grim.
[04:31.020 --> 04:36.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can remember his first appearance, now look what's happened to him.
[04:37.840 --> 04:42.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: So they put him in, a dark suit night, from 1964.
[04:42.880 --> 04:43.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: They will fall.
[04:44.460 --> 04:47.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: The king of belief in ITV.
[04:48.000 --> 04:48.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Groovy times.
[04:49.620 --> 04:50.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Forever.
[04:51.460 --> 04:51.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: No.
[04:55.260 --> 04:57.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Groovy times.
[04:58.580 --> 05:00.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Groovy times.
[05:05.200 --> 05:06.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: Groovy times.
[05:08.560 --> 05:10.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Groovy times.
[05:12.560 --> 05:13.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Groovy times!
[05:19.090 --> 05:20.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: Groovy times!
[05:22.350 --> 05:23.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: Groovy times!
[05:25.730 --> 05:26.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Groovy times!
[05:26.630 --> 05:26.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Groovy times!
[05:52.890 --> 05:59.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you ever need a little bit of energy, always dig up a clash song, because that will inject you full of things that you didn't know you could be injected with.
[06:00.190 --> 06:02.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's called Groovy Times.
[06:03.010 --> 06:05.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: It came from the Cost of Living EP.
[06:05.670 --> 06:08.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: But you may have seen it on a single that was included...
[06:08.830 --> 06:10.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: I got into a fight about this with somebody.
[06:10.990 --> 06:13.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think it was included with the London Calling record.
[06:13.390 --> 06:14.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Somebody else said it was the first album.
[06:15.150 --> 06:17.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: If someone can help me out there, I would appreciate it.
[06:18.410 --> 06:20.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Also, it's on a new record.
[06:20.650 --> 06:25.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: A collection of rare tracks and b-sides for all the people that never got the rare tracks and b-sides.
[06:26.110 --> 06:26.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: It just came out.
[06:27.590 --> 06:29.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Groovy Times from 1979.
[06:30.270 --> 06:32.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: And yes, we're in groovy times here.
[06:32.630 --> 06:39.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein, and today, tonight, we've got a program that I think will shock you.
[06:39.990 --> 06:41.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: It should outrage you.
[06:41.090 --> 06:42.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: It should make you so angry that...
[06:43.790 --> 06:49.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I'd rather not think of what you might do when you hear the things that are on this piece of paper.
[06:49.590 --> 06:52.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: You don't know what's on this piece of paper, do you?
[06:52.170 --> 06:52.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is radio.
[06:52.910 --> 06:54.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have no idea what I'm looking at here.
[06:55.550 --> 06:57.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh boy, how do I put this into words?
[06:57.450 --> 06:59.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, what, another song?
[07:00.130 --> 07:01.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Alright, alright.
[07:01.330 --> 07:04.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll play another song first, and then we're going to go right to this.
[07:04.950 --> 07:07.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Folks, be prepared to be shocked.
[07:07.430 --> 07:12.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Be prepared to be angry, because we're all going to be in some deep water soon.
[07:12.190 --> 07:20.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Deep water, deep water, I'm in trouble, and I'm up to my naked face.
[07:20.350 --> 07:29.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Deep water, deep water, I'm out of money, but it's banged by the fact that it's open and close in my mind.
[07:37.070 --> 07:50.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Deep water, deep water, deep water, too hard to sleep with my eyes open.
[07:50.150 --> 07:57.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: Deep water, deep water, dry and ice-coaches are trapped in the ocean.
[07:57.430 --> 08:03.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: In the stars, watching my head and rip through the echoes of someone laughing at me.
[08:04.250 --> 08:07.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: I never wanted to be there.
[08:21.140 --> 08:27.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Deep water, two miles and miles and miles away.
[08:27.920 --> 08:34.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Deep water, two miles and miles and miles and miles.
[08:49.220 --> 08:56.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Deep water, deep water, deep water, I drown my sorrows with too many blues.
[08:56.780 --> 09:03.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Deep water, deep water, sometimes I bet you can't still wear my pride.
[09:03.300 --> 09:06.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Like a prisoner on an eye, the white ship of time.
[09:07.120 --> 09:08.280]  Cutter, cutter,
[10:04.260 --> 10:07.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: cutting the gun, and I'm staring at your phone.
[10:09.700 --> 10:11.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Deep water.
[10:54.660 --> 11:01.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that comes all the way back from 1981, the selector, from their second album, Celebrate the Bullet and Deep Water.
[11:02.460 --> 11:07.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: And yes, I can see there's folks out there that are outraged and upset because they're already calling in.
[11:07.340 --> 11:10.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: You don't even know what I'm talking about and you're calling in to voice your opinion on it.
[11:10.860 --> 11:12.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, that's, that's silly.
[11:12.600 --> 11:12.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Come on.
[11:13.640 --> 11:14.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hang up.
[11:14.280 --> 11:14.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hang up.
[11:14.660 --> 11:15.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Everybody hang up.
[11:16.440 --> 11:18.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's, that's, that's silly, folks.
[11:18.080 --> 11:21.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wait until you hear what, uh, what I've got to say here.
[11:21.640 --> 11:22.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is important.
[11:22.380 --> 11:27.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: And odds are, odds are you have one of these pieces of paper in your house even as we speak.
[11:28.100 --> 11:30.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: One of these nasty pieces of paper.
[11:30.140 --> 11:39.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, those of you in New Jersey and those of you in Connecticut and those of you in Pennsylvania, I know you're in Pennsylvania because I drove through Pennsylvania and you can get WBAI there.
[11:39.140 --> 11:40.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have to try, but you can get it.
[11:41.460 --> 11:50.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, those of you, I'm afraid, uh, there's no way you will have one of those pieces of paper because this piece of paper came from New York Telephone.
[11:51.120 --> 11:51.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's right.
[11:51.960 --> 11:54.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's that ridiculous little, uh, hello newsletter.
[11:55.940 --> 11:58.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, when you get your phone bill, do you read that?
[11:58.220 --> 11:58.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you look at that?
[11:58.860 --> 11:59.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you see what they're saying?
[12:01.320 --> 12:04.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they said some pretty outrageous things in the most recent one.
[12:04.640 --> 12:11.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, um, if you have one with you, if you know where it is, go get it and, uh, we're going to read it together and then we're going to talk about it.
[12:11.660 --> 12:19.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to talk about it quite a bit and then you're going to have the opportunity not only to talk about it here, but to talk about it in front of New York Telephone.
[12:19.440 --> 12:22.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll tell you exactly how that's going to happen because they certainly won't tell you that.
[12:23.480 --> 12:23.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[12:24.700 --> 12:26.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: New rates requested.
[12:27.220 --> 12:40.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, whenever you see those words, you know that something nasty is about to happen and, you know, you expect it sometimes, but, uh, you don't expect it to be this bad, to be this, uh, sneaky.
[12:40.780 --> 12:44.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, sneaky is definitely a word that applies here and I'll, I'll, I'll go into that.
[12:44.600 --> 12:47.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not just going to toss out these allegations without backing them up here.
[12:48.640 --> 12:50.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's, uh, let's hear what they have to say.
[12:50.280 --> 13:01.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: New York Telephone has filed with the New York State Public Service Commission, known as the PSC, for $965 million in new rates to take effect on January 1st, 1991.
[13:02.440 --> 13:08.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: The filing on March 14th is New York Telephone's first general rate case filing in six years.
[13:10.480 --> 13:11.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll repeat that.
[13:11.600 --> 13:14.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: The first general rate case filing in six years.
[13:14.300 --> 13:15.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what it means either, folks.
[13:15.960 --> 13:16.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what that means.
[13:16.940 --> 13:23.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: I just know they've raised their rates at some point in the last six years because, uh, my bill has gone up in six years.
[13:23.480 --> 13:25.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what they're trying to, uh, try to pull there.
[13:25.820 --> 13:31.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: The new rates would take effect at the expiration of a rate case moratorium agreement with the PSC.
[13:31.460 --> 13:32.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: More mumbo-jumbo.
[13:32.480 --> 13:33.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Nobody knows what it means.
[13:33.820 --> 13:35.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: During the moratorium...
[13:35.240 --> 13:36.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, folks, this is, this is it.
[13:36.540 --> 13:40.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: During the moratorium, we reduced rates by $467 million.
[13:42.220 --> 13:53.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: While the Consumer Price Index increased 14.4% over the five-year moratorium period, the average New York telephone home phone bill decreased 6.9%.
[13:55.100 --> 14:04.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, this is like reading one of those newspapers that's put out by, uh, you know, by a king or something, telling you how everything is going just great when everybody knows that it's all falling apart.
[14:04.880 --> 14:07.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are phone bills decreased 6.9%?
[14:08.520 --> 14:09.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't...
[14:09.400 --> 14:10.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not living in that galaxy.
[14:10.860 --> 14:12.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what they're talking about.
[14:13.320 --> 14:15.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway, let's get back to the matter at hand.
[14:16.020 --> 14:22.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: If approved, the new rates would increase the average residence bill for local service by 34%.
[14:23.740 --> 14:24.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: 34%.
[14:25.080 --> 14:28.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Charges for touchstone service would decrease by 20%.
[14:28.960 --> 14:30.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll get into that a little bit later.
[14:31.160 --> 14:36.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, locality mileage charges would decrease by 10% and would be eliminated in certain areas.
[14:37.900 --> 14:42.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Lifeline rates and the 25-cent local coin phone rate would not change.
[14:43.120 --> 14:44.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: God bless you, New York Telephone.
[14:45.420 --> 14:59.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Beyond covering increasing costs, the company must generate earnings sufficient to attract investors and make possible the financing of network improvements, ensuring a quality communication system that will attract businesses and help keep New York State's economy strong.
[14:59.560 --> 15:03.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: In other words, if you don't like this, you're against New York State's economy.
[15:03.960 --> 15:15.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway, to generate the necessary earnings, we must price our services to more closely reflect their costs, especially in a time of intense and increasing competition in the telecommunications industry.
[15:17.600 --> 15:20.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Can anybody name a competitor to New York Telephone?
[15:22.480 --> 15:23.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: There aren't any.
[15:24.080 --> 15:25.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're stuck with them.
[15:25.880 --> 15:29.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can't pick another company to provide local service.
[15:29.300 --> 15:31.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: New York Telephone is the only game in town.
[15:31.620 --> 15:43.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Today, our costs to provide a resident's customer with home telephone service is $28.30 a month on average, which is twice the average monthly access line rate of $13.01.
[15:44.480 --> 15:57.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: The remainder of the cost, $15.29, is subsidized with revenue from optional, non-basic services, which are subject to competition from service providers who do not have to inflate their prices with subsidies.
[15:58.360 --> 16:06.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Again, I don't know who these people are they're competing with, but nobody's offering to provide me with a dial tone or local service other than New York Telephone.
[16:07.360 --> 16:09.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway, let's get to the heart of the matter.
[16:09.700 --> 16:11.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Here are the proposed rate changes.
[16:12.580 --> 16:21.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, if you have message rate service, the basic monthly charge will be increasing to $15.03 from...
[16:21.240 --> 16:23.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not going to read this their way.
[16:23.480 --> 16:26.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: They read the big number first and then give you a little number.
[16:26.320 --> 16:27.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, we're going to do it my way.
[16:27.680 --> 16:30.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to read what it is now and what it's going to become.
[16:31.620 --> 16:34.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: I see why they did it this way, but we're going to do it my way.
[16:34.560 --> 16:53.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: The basic monthly charge would increase from $7.55 to $15.03 for untimed message rate service, and from $6.58 to $12 for timed message rate service.
[16:53.760 --> 16:58.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what they mean when they say it's going to be increasing 34%.
[16:58.760 --> 17:01.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: That looks like it's increasing 100% to me.
[17:01.680 --> 17:02.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: It looks like it's doubling.
[17:02.460 --> 17:04.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: A basic budget service.
[17:04.880 --> 17:06.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's an easy one.
[17:06.280 --> 17:10.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: A basic budget service would be eliminated since its function is now performed by Lifeline services.
[17:10.860 --> 17:19.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: A basic budget customers would choose another service, timed or untimed message rate service, or a flat-rate service where available.
[17:19.660 --> 17:20.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay?
[17:20.480 --> 17:21.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: A flat-rate service.
[17:21.320 --> 17:25.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: The basic monthly charge would increase $7.48.
[17:26.160 --> 17:30.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's from the current range of between $6.52.
[17:32.140 --> 17:33.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, this is a really complicated way to say it.
[17:33.800 --> 17:36.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's say it's $6.52 for you now for flat-rate service.
[17:36.760 --> 17:38.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's going to go up to about $14.
[17:39.200 --> 17:44.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you're paying something on the order of $18.84, it will go up to $26.32.
[17:45.780 --> 17:52.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Flat rate customers pay one of ten monthly charges depending on their rate group, which is determined by the number of telephone lines in their local calling area.
[17:54.180 --> 17:56.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Flat rate reclassification.
[17:56.360 --> 18:07.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Customers in 103 communities with flat-rate service would see larger increases because, as called for in the tariff for flat-rate service, telephone line growth has moved them into a higher rate group.
[18:08.280 --> 18:08.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[18:09.500 --> 18:12.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: For example, Staten Island is one example they give.
[18:13.080 --> 18:17.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: The rate would go up to $22.23.
[18:17.960 --> 18:20.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Currently, it's only $13.43.
[18:21.600 --> 18:32.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: The charge for a call within a downstate home region or an upstate primary calling area known as Band A would increase from $0.10.2 to $0.11.
[18:34.420 --> 18:35.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: I can deal with that.
[18:36.060 --> 18:37.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's about the only thing I can deal with.
[18:39.160 --> 18:48.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Downstate flat-rate calling outside the primary calling area but within the home region would increase to $0.11 from $0.10.2 for the first minute and to $0.2 from $0.02 per additional minute.
[18:48.900 --> 18:50.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, that's the kind of stuff you expect to hear.
[18:51.740 --> 18:53.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, this is interesting.
[18:53.280 --> 19:00.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: The initial period for downstate home region or upstate Band A calls would be reduced to three minutes from five minutes.
[19:00.540 --> 19:09.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: In other words, they give you a charge of the first five minutes and there's a certain charge attached to that.
[19:10.200 --> 19:12.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're going to change that to the first three minutes.
[19:12.860 --> 19:17.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: But what's interesting here is they say they're going to decrease the rate to $0.07 from $0.08.1.
[19:20.260 --> 19:21.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, that's...
[19:22.680 --> 19:29.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not clear if they mean they're going to be charging $0.07 for three minutes instead of $0.08.1 for five minutes.
[19:29.080 --> 19:31.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: In which case, they're not reducing it at all.
[19:32.260 --> 19:37.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: But that's, again, trivial compared to the big stuff which we haven't yet gotten to.
[19:39.700 --> 19:41.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Service connection charges.
[19:41.780 --> 19:46.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: These one-time charges would change to reflect the cost of providing these services.
[19:46.400 --> 19:48.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: In other words, we've all been getting a free ride all this time.
[19:48.880 --> 20:01.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: The minimum charge for one new line on premises already wired and equipped with jacks where no installation visit is necessary would increase from $52.70 to $86.
[20:02.000 --> 20:04.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's where no installation visit is necessary.
[20:04.520 --> 20:07.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's basically for throwing a switch.
[20:07.260 --> 20:11.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: $86 instead of the current $52.70.
[20:12.020 --> 20:29.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: The maximum charge where a customer has us install a wire and jacks would increase from $64.65 to $99 plus time and material charges which currently are $50 for the first half hour and $20 for each additional quarter hour or fraction thereof.
[20:31.460 --> 20:33.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, now, here comes the fun thing.
[20:33.860 --> 20:35.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's under Other Changes.
[20:35.720 --> 20:42.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: The evening off-peak calling discount would be reduced from 35% to 25%.
[20:42.800 --> 20:50.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: In other words, instead of you getting a discount at 9 o'clock between 9 and 11 of 35%, that discount is only going to be 25%.
[20:50.820 --> 20:57.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it's an across-the-board rate increase there which they're not giving specific numbers for, just changing the percentage.
[20:57.480 --> 20:58.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's not all.
[20:58.920 --> 21:02.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Night and weekend, the discount has been 60%.
[21:02.120 --> 21:04.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: They want to lower that to 50%.
[21:04.940 --> 21:06.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Raise the rates a bit.
[21:07.700 --> 21:12.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: The current $0.43 charge for a call to directory assistance would not change.
[21:12.940 --> 21:18.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: However, the monthly allowance of two free directory assistance requests would be eliminated.
[21:18.540 --> 21:23.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: So that's another rate increase sort of hidden in there.
[21:24.060 --> 21:27.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, this is one that I have a particular gripe with.
[21:27.800 --> 21:34.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: A $0.50 charge would be introduced to request directory assistance from a New York Telephone coin phone.
[21:34.700 --> 21:41.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: In other words, every coin phone will charge you $0.50 to dial 411 to get information.
[21:42.100 --> 21:59.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, currently, a lot of those rip-off payphones, you know, the ones that aren't New York Telephone payphones, they charge you for information, but they are required, required by the law to have a phone book next to the phone or in the premises where the phone is.
[21:59.980 --> 22:03.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, that's not the case right now with New York Telephone payphones.
[22:03.600 --> 22:06.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are they going to somehow slip around that law?
[22:06.720 --> 22:08.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: What's going to happen there?
[22:09.160 --> 22:15.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: $0.50 to find out a local phone number that's going to cost you $0.25 to call.
[22:15.380 --> 22:18.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it doesn't quite seem logical, does it?
[22:20.100 --> 22:27.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: A new monthly surcharge of $0.95 per line would subsidize Lifeline services and the New York State Relay Service for the hearing and speech-impaired.
[22:28.060 --> 22:29.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Got no problem with that.
[22:30.180 --> 22:33.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: The 3% monthly upstate exchange credit would be eliminated.
[22:34.300 --> 22:35.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Never even heard of it before.
[22:36.480 --> 22:39.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Message rate services would be introduced in 23 upstate exchanges.
[22:41.020 --> 22:47.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: No new two-party or four-party service would be offered in areas where facilities for individual line service are available.
[22:48.760 --> 22:55.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Surcharges for operator-handled calls, those are collect, billing to third-party, person-to-person, or calling card calls.
[22:55.520 --> 22:57.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Those surcharges will increase $0.10.
[22:58.400 --> 23:08.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the surcharge to verify a busy line, to find out if it's really busy or if it's off the hook, that surcharge will increase from the current $0.43 to $1.
[23:08.560 --> 23:17.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the charge to actually interrupt a conversation in an emergency will increase from $0.89 to $1.50.
[23:17.700 --> 23:19.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: I remember when all that was free.
[23:19.040 --> 23:20.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Only a few years ago.
[23:20.080 --> 23:21.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: There was no charge for any of this.
[23:22.200 --> 23:23.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now this...
[23:23.200 --> 23:26.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is the worst of all.
[23:26.940 --> 23:38.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: A $0.50 charge would be introduced for having an operator perform a service not involved with completing a call, such as providing the time, or really doing anything else.
[23:39.000 --> 23:41.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: In other words, it's going to cost you $0.50 to call the operator.
[23:42.220 --> 23:48.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: $0.50 to call the operator, unless the operator does something else that involves a charge.
[23:50.040 --> 23:54.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's incredible that they've got the gall to propose something like this.
[23:54.740 --> 24:08.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you call the operator to find out some bit of information, such as, you know, where does this exchange show up, or anything, anything that you call the operator for, if it doesn't involve placing a call, they're going to charge you $0.50.
[24:08.560 --> 24:09.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: What do you think of that?
[24:10.680 --> 24:11.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: How about this?
[24:11.500 --> 24:17.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: The federal transfer surcharge, whatever that is, would increase from 3.82% to 6.63%.
[24:17.940 --> 24:20.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's going to pretty much double.
[24:22.660 --> 24:25.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, there's two things you can do at this point, folks.
[24:25.920 --> 24:26.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Two things.
[24:26.900 --> 24:32.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: One is to call us up and voice your opinion on this or any other phone-related material.
[24:33.600 --> 24:36.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: 212-279-3400 is our phone number.
[24:36.360 --> 24:45.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: The other thing, and the more important thing, and what you should be getting your pens and paper ready for, is when the actual hearings are.
[24:45.640 --> 24:47.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because they do have to have hearings.
[24:47.860 --> 24:53.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: They have to bring all this up before the Public Service Commission, and it can be denied.
[24:53.400 --> 24:58.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: It certainly can be denied, but people have to speak up and voice their opinion on everything.
[24:58.540 --> 25:04.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, there's going to be one hearing on Wednesday, May 2nd, at 12.15 p.m.
[25:04.560 --> 25:11.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's at 400 Broome Street in Manhattan on the 6th floor, Hearing Room A.
[25:12.440 --> 25:17.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I believe that's Offices of the Public Service Commission, 12.15, May 2nd.
[25:18.600 --> 25:27.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: And also there'll be two on Monday, May 21st, at the Hempstead Town Hall on Long Island at 1 p.m.
[25:27.320 --> 25:28.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: and 7 p.m.
[25:28.440 --> 25:38.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's extremely important that people voice their opinions here, because what's happening is we're really being led for a ride here.
[25:38.500 --> 25:41.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: For instance, I mentioned the Touch-Tone fee.
[25:42.160 --> 25:47.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: The one positive thing is that they're lowering the Touch-Tone fee, but that fee should be eliminated altogether.
[25:47.080 --> 25:53.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: There is no service that is being provided by charging you for Touch-Tones.
[25:53.660 --> 25:56.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Touch-Tones are used by you.
[25:56.220 --> 26:01.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: They come from your phone, and yet the phone company somehow manages to get away with charging you for using them.
[26:02.320 --> 26:04.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's standard equipment everywhere, you know.
[26:04.680 --> 26:07.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not something extra they've got to install.
[26:07.020 --> 26:09.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was about 30 years ago, but it's not anymore.
[26:10.040 --> 26:13.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yet they still manage to charge as if it's an extra service.
[26:14.020 --> 26:17.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, they can't have it both ways.
[26:18.100 --> 26:23.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: They say that they want to eliminate these charges.
[26:24.320 --> 26:26.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, in order to do that, they have to raise the rates.
[26:26.760 --> 26:28.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: But they're not eliminating the charges.
[26:28.000 --> 26:31.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're simply reducing them by a very small amount and doubling the rates.
[26:32.880 --> 26:35.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Makes you wonder where they're really coming from.
[26:35.960 --> 26:37.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, a couple of phone numbers.
[26:38.540 --> 26:40.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then we'll go to some phones here.
[26:41.120 --> 26:43.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Before a final decision is reached...
[26:43.280 --> 26:44.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is what they have to tell you.
[26:45.020 --> 26:49.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Before a final decision is reached, the PSC will schedule hearings throughout the state.
[26:49.700 --> 27:01.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Information about the times and places of these hearings can be obtained by calling the Public Service Commission toll-free at 1-800-342-3377.
[27:01.020 --> 27:02.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, this is interesting.
[27:02.680 --> 27:04.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is really kind of interesting here.
[27:04.500 --> 27:06.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm going to pick up the phone and dial that number right now.
[27:08.740 --> 27:11.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: 800-342-3377.
[27:12.120 --> 27:16.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, if you call that in the middle of the day, you'll get a continuous busy signal.
[27:17.280 --> 27:19.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you call it now, of course, you'll just get a ring.
[27:20.180 --> 27:21.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: And nothing else.
[27:21.720 --> 27:24.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: But what's particularly interesting here is...
[27:27.350 --> 27:30.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to call it again on another line here.
[27:34.840 --> 27:35.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: And see...
[27:37.380 --> 27:39.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: They only have one line.
[27:43.100 --> 27:44.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is that not incredible?
[27:44.680 --> 27:48.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Only one line for the entire state of New York for the Public Service Commission.
[27:48.600 --> 27:50.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I'm going to give you a couple of numbers.
[27:50.620 --> 27:52.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the only toll-free number.
[27:52.720 --> 27:55.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: 1-800-342-3377.
[27:55.460 --> 27:56.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's a number in New York City.
[27:56.840 --> 27:58.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think they have two lines.
[27:58.440 --> 28:00.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, two lines for the entire city.
[28:00.600 --> 28:03.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: 2-1-2-4-8-8-5-3-3-0.
[28:04.920 --> 28:12.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you're up in Albany, or if you just want to call up to Albany, area code 518-474-5527.
[28:13.080 --> 28:14.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, what you have to do...
[28:14.680 --> 28:17.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I called this number a couple of days ago.
[28:18.060 --> 28:21.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is a different number that I found all by myself, and it took about an hour to find it.
[28:22.240 --> 28:26.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's 2-1-2-4-8-8-4-1-4-1.
[28:26.900 --> 28:31.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: That is the number you have to call to register to say something at this hearing.
[28:31.600 --> 28:41.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I talked to the person at the Public Service Commission, and they said they have to give everybody that wants to speak an opportunity to be heard.
[28:41.800 --> 28:44.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I asked, well, how long do these hearings go on for?
[28:44.680 --> 28:48.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they said they go on until everybody has said what they have to say.
[28:49.820 --> 28:54.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, I'd like to have this hearing go on for a few days here, because this is something very important.
[28:54.240 --> 28:58.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is something that will affect everybody in New York City, everybody in New York State.
[28:59.560 --> 29:02.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think it's going to affect people in a very adverse way.
[29:02.580 --> 29:04.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Your phone bills are going to double in a year.
[29:04.900 --> 29:06.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Within a year, your phone bills will double.
[29:06.600 --> 29:10.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: You won't be able to get free information from payphones anywhere, locally.
[29:11.920 --> 29:15.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: You'll wind up paying more for information than you will for the phone call.
[29:16.960 --> 29:21.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: You'll be paying all kinds of surcharges that you don't understand, sort of like now, but more.
[29:24.040 --> 29:26.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you have to pay 50 cents to call the operator.
[29:27.800 --> 29:31.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, I know what the answer to this question is going to be, but I'm going to ask it anyway.
[29:31.680 --> 29:34.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm going to get a New York telephone operator on the phone.
[29:35.360 --> 29:36.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: See what they know.
[29:47.340 --> 29:48.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm talking with my PJ.
[29:48.780 --> 29:54.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, operator, I was wondering, do you know anything about a proposal to charge 50 cents to call the operator?
[29:54.600 --> 29:55.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Excuse me?
[29:55.480 --> 30:00.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you know anything about a proposal to charge 50 cents to reach the operator?
[30:00.480 --> 30:03.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: We have not been notified of anything like that, ever yet.
[30:03.740 --> 30:04.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, you don't know anything about it?
[30:05.120 --> 30:05.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, I don't.
[30:06.020 --> 30:06.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, thank you.
[30:06.860 --> 30:08.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you wish to speak to a supervisor, maybe they might know.
[30:08.980 --> 30:09.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[30:09.800 --> 30:10.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, sure, why not?
[30:10.740 --> 30:11.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye, Mama.
[30:11.240 --> 30:11.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[30:13.580 --> 30:15.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's always fun talking to a supervisor.
[30:22.520 --> 30:27.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, yes, of course, there's the, uh, ten-minute wait to talk to the supervisor, so we're going to skip that part of it tonight.
[30:27.960 --> 30:37.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, I can tell you, they'll, they'll go, they'll look up on a piece of paper somewhere, and they'll look all over the office, and then they'll say, well, we couldn't find anything either.
[30:37.320 --> 30:43.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: The phone company usually doesn't tell its employees until the last possible moment what's really going on.
[30:44.780 --> 30:46.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, that's, uh, that's the facts.
[30:47.100 --> 30:50.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's kind of disturbing and, um, kind of shocking, I think.
[30:51.160 --> 30:56.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I haven't heard or read anything, anywhere, saying that this is outrageous.
[30:56.880 --> 30:58.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Am I the only person that thinks this is outrageous?
[30:59.460 --> 31:00.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'd like to know.
[31:00.300 --> 31:07.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, 212-279-3400, give us a call, and we'll take your calls on the air.
[31:07.740 --> 31:15.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you have any other questions regarding telephones, or, uh, telephone service, or things like that, even throw in computer hacking, I suppose.
[31:16.100 --> 31:18.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: But our computer hacking show will be in two weeks.
[31:18.520 --> 31:25.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to do a, a show about some of the really, really shocking things that are going on in the world.
[31:25.160 --> 31:30.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that should, uh, coincide with the spring issue of 2600, so we'll have plenty of material to draw from.
[31:31.860 --> 31:34.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: 212-279-3400.
[31:34.960 --> 31:36.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: And a very good evening.
[31:36.840 --> 31:39.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: If there's anything I like better than honey and ketchup?
[31:39.420 --> 31:41.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, we don't have time for that, do we?
[31:41.300 --> 31:41.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[31:42.180 --> 31:43.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hi, I'm shocked, too.
[31:43.940 --> 31:44.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's good to hear.
[31:44.900 --> 31:48.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have something that's even more shocking as far as the phone company is concerned.
[31:49.200 --> 31:49.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[31:49.480 --> 31:53.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: You were reading from something that was, uh, sent in last month's bill.
[31:54.040 --> 31:56.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, I received this month's bill...
[31:56.620 --> 31:56.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-oh.
[31:57.140 --> 32:00.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: ...with, uh, one of these, uh, brochures called Hello.
[32:00.940 --> 32:03.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: You sometimes get these things with your bill.
[32:03.920 --> 32:05.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: What's yours dated?
[32:05.380 --> 32:07.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mine's dated March, April 1990.
[32:07.620 --> 32:11.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, this hello thing is for, uh, April, May 90.
[32:11.420 --> 32:12.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ah, okay.
[32:12.500 --> 32:23.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, I'm going to read you something, and I have to tell you in advance that I called my representative, whose number appears on my bill, to get further explanations of this.
[32:24.340 --> 32:30.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I don't think who I spoke to was living out together.
[32:30.220 --> 32:31.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, let's give it a try.
[32:31.480 --> 32:31.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[32:31.900 --> 32:38.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, I have to tell you that this has to do with the 95-cent fee for the wire guarantee.
[32:39.560 --> 32:43.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, the wire that comes into your home, if anything happens to it...
[32:43.920 --> 32:45.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: God forbid, yeah.
[32:45.140 --> 32:49.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: ...95 cents a month, and they come and fix it for you without charging you an arm and a leg.
[32:50.140 --> 32:53.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's another incredible, incredible rip-off they've been getting away with.
[32:53.720 --> 32:57.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and they try to pressure you into keeping that 95 cents a month.
[32:57.840 --> 33:01.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: And at the same time, they tell you that, uh, chances are nothing's going to happen.
[33:02.300 --> 33:02.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's true.
[33:03.000 --> 33:04.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: But wouldn't it be nice just to be safe?
[33:04.460 --> 33:08.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let me ask you, have you ever heard of anybody who's inside wiring broke somehow?
[33:09.220 --> 33:15.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I had a problem once where I, uh, my, uh, I was talking to people, and I would get disconnected.
[33:16.140 --> 33:19.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the guy came up and found that the problem was stand-stairs in the basement.
[33:20.300 --> 33:22.770]  They were entering inside.
[33:23.030 --> 33:24.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, so it wouldn't have been covered anyway.
[33:24.970 --> 33:26.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that was free.
[33:26.270 --> 33:31.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Whatever comes in from the outside up to the point where it enters your home is as they take care of without charging you.
[33:31.670 --> 33:32.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right, they still have to do that.
[33:33.010 --> 33:34.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, the day is coming when they won't even do that.
[33:34.790 --> 33:37.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: You'll have to climb out on the pole yourself and take care of it.
[33:37.130 --> 33:37.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[33:37.350 --> 33:38.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: But that wasn't the inside wiring.
[33:39.110 --> 33:41.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right, but I must read this little thing to you, if I may.
[33:41.470 --> 33:41.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: Go ahead.
[33:41.730 --> 33:45.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, reclassifying your jack could bring benefits.
[33:45.730 --> 33:56.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you have only one telephone jack serving a phone line in your home, you might be able to have that jack reclassified as a network interface device, and it could save you money.
[33:57.190 --> 34:04.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: To qualify as a network interface device, the jack must be located where our line first enters your home.
[34:04.630 --> 34:09.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: It also must be modular, the type that lets you unplug your phone from it.
[34:09.390 --> 34:10.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: See picture above.
[34:11.390 --> 34:23.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: If the jack qualifies, it is to your advantage to go seek reclassification because we are responsible for the maintenance of network interface devices that are considered part of our line.
[34:23.950 --> 34:27.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Therefore, we would repair any problem with the jack free of charge.
[34:28.270 --> 34:29.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's another benefit.
[34:29.970 --> 34:36.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you previously ordered an optional wire maintenance plan from New York Telephone, you would be entitled to a credit.
[34:36.910 --> 34:40.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's because you would no longer have any inside wiring.
[34:40.770 --> 34:50.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: The amount of the credit would depend on the type of wire maintenance plan you ordered and how many months you paid for that wire maintenance plan since January 1, 1990.
[34:50.630 --> 34:55.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you want to reclassify your jack, please call your resident service representative.
[34:55.930 --> 34:58.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, I've got a couple of questions about this.
[34:58.670 --> 35:02.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, reclassifying your jack is always an important time in someone's life.
[35:02.870 --> 35:03.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: What's your question?
[35:03.770 --> 35:04.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Here's the thing.
[35:05.010 --> 35:13.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: In a building like the one that I live in, which is like 60 years old, we have the wiring, for instance, what comes from the basement into your closet.
[35:14.930 --> 35:20.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Before the telephone is actually hooked up to that, that's the old-style screw-on-tops.
[35:20.110 --> 35:22.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not the modular type sort of thing.
[35:22.670 --> 35:26.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: In more buildings, you probably have that interface type of thing.
[35:26.390 --> 35:39.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, what happens if you wanted a technician to come up to your home to replace that old-style thing where the wires are connected to put that jack in so that you can then plug in your new phone?
[35:40.030 --> 35:42.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are you talking about a jack inside your apartment?
[35:42.650 --> 35:42.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[35:43.090 --> 35:52.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: In other words, where the wiring comes up from the basement into the closet before the other wiring is taken around your room.
[35:52.950 --> 35:55.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do you want to go from one room to the other end of the room?
[35:56.470 --> 36:00.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, the guy comes up and he staples the wire across the wall.
[36:00.250 --> 36:00.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[36:00.810 --> 36:05.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then he puts the modular jack down where you want it in the room, and then you plug the phone in.
[36:06.350 --> 36:06.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[36:06.770 --> 36:12.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: At one end, it has to go to the wire that comes up from the basement, and that's where that thing is connected.
[36:13.050 --> 36:16.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: You see, the way it works now, they're only going to go as far as the basement.
[36:16.450 --> 36:19.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's where the interface is or would be if the jack is converted to an interface.
[36:20.190 --> 36:23.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: They won't go into your apartment and do things to the wire there because that's considered yours.
[36:24.510 --> 36:29.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but what I'm saying is that, you know, you're not going to put your phone into the closet.
[36:29.470 --> 36:32.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: It usually comes up through a closet, and then they string a wire across the room.
[36:33.070 --> 36:36.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: And where that thing is in the closet is where the interface should be.
[36:36.470 --> 36:40.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Then they string the wire across the rest of the room to where you want the other outlet to be.
[36:41.450 --> 36:42.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know what I'm talking about?
[36:42.350 --> 36:42.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[36:42.770 --> 36:44.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, is the interface... the interface then would be in your closet.
[36:45.010 --> 36:46.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not familiar with how apartments work.
[36:46.670 --> 36:47.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: It would be in the closet.
[36:47.890 --> 36:48.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's where it comes up.
[36:48.950 --> 36:50.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's the starting point in your home.
[36:50.670 --> 36:55.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, so if the interface is in your closet, they'll go as far as your closet, and then you're expected to take it from there.
[36:55.910 --> 36:56.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[36:56.430 --> 36:58.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it has the old-style wiring.
[36:59.030 --> 37:09.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, I wanted to know how much it would cost for the technician to come up to take the old-style wiring out, put the interface in, so that I could string the wire up to any part of the other room.
[37:09.990 --> 37:13.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: These guys get $88 just to put the thing in there.
[37:13.290 --> 37:13.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[37:14.510 --> 37:19.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, even if you just had to have them come and look at it, it worked.
[37:19.490 --> 37:25.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Based on what you just read me, are they saying that they will do that for free, or are they saying they want to charge you for that?
[37:25.750 --> 37:34.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I had to call the service representative whose number was on my bill to ask her about this, and I'm not even sure she understood what I was talking about.
[37:34.310 --> 37:35.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's good because it's so new.
[37:35.630 --> 37:37.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: It just came in the bill this month.
[37:37.550 --> 37:37.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[37:38.470 --> 37:40.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: You've got to see this when you get your bill.
[37:40.270 --> 37:42.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I'm going to look at that as soon as I get my next bill.
[37:42.930 --> 37:43.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: I can hardly wait.
[37:43.590 --> 37:43.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't understand this.
[37:43.910 --> 37:49.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: If I'm thinking correctly, you see, I've got a modular jack here that you plug in, a modern thing.
[37:49.510 --> 37:49.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[37:49.850 --> 37:53.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it's to your advantage to get the latest, and if they're...
[37:53.790 --> 38:01.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: What I'm saying, sir, is this wiring replaced, they're going to charge me $88 for that.
[38:01.810 --> 38:09.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, if you're going to pay $0.95 a month for what I've got now, the wire maintenance charge, you have to do the math.
[38:09.570 --> 38:21.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: If I have to pay $88 to have this fixed, I'm going to have to wait four and a half years before the thing breaks even, and then I would eliminate the $0.95 charge four and a half years later.
[38:22.350 --> 38:22.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[38:22.670 --> 38:29.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, read that part of your little hello book carefully and see if there's any mention of a charge there, because I don't think they charge for that.
[38:29.730 --> 38:30.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think they're allowed to.
[38:31.370 --> 38:37.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: To replace old, decrepit wiring on their part with something new, because that interface belongs to them.
[38:37.090 --> 38:38.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: It doesn't belong to you.
[38:38.190 --> 38:45.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: She said something about getting a new modular jack to go over that, but I don't think that's the thing that we're talking about here.
[38:45.230 --> 38:49.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, the interface is a modular jack, but it's not just a modular jack.
[38:49.110 --> 38:50.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a little more than that.
[38:50.190 --> 38:55.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: But maybe we're confused about how they do it in apartment buildings, to go from the basement to the apartment.
[38:55.730 --> 38:56.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[38:56.230 --> 38:57.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's something I'm not certain about.
[38:57.950 --> 38:58.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know how that works.
[38:58.770 --> 39:02.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: That might be considered your landlord's property and not the phone company.
[39:02.250 --> 39:03.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not exactly certain how that works.
[39:03.810 --> 39:12.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: What I suggest you do is give a call to 611, and after the computer answers and all that garbage, just try to get to a human and ask to speak to a foreman.
[39:12.350 --> 39:12.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[39:12.590 --> 39:14.430]  Now, 611, of course, is the repair law.
[39:14.630 --> 39:14.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[39:14.990 --> 39:19.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that is what you will need to talk to, because the business office won't know the first thing about this.
[39:19.350 --> 39:20.470]  That's how I did it this morning.
[39:20.470 --> 39:24.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, call them and ask to speak to a foreman, because they'll understand what's going on.
[39:24.490 --> 39:30.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: And just explain your situation exactly, and ask, is there a charge involved here, and what, you know, how does it work?
[39:30.810 --> 39:31.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: But you know where they lay this whole thing at
[39:35.290 --> 39:35.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: you.
[39:36.010 --> 39:44.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: But after doing the math, four and a half years down the line, you see that it may pay to continue to pay the 95 cents a month.
[39:44.730 --> 39:45.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[39:45.530 --> 39:50.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, continue listening, too, because another caller may call in with some more information on this.
[39:50.270 --> 39:52.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: I regret I'm not that familiar with how apartments work.
[39:52.450 --> 39:53.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks so much for calling, though.
[39:53.870 --> 39:57.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: 279-3400 is our telephone number, and we're talking about the phone company.
[39:57.890 --> 39:58.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[39:59.550 --> 40:00.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh.
[40:00.890 --> 40:01.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello?
[40:01.670 --> 40:02.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, go ahead.
[40:02.610 --> 40:04.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is this WBAN?
[40:04.570 --> 40:05.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what it is.
[40:05.350 --> 40:05.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[40:06.310 --> 40:06.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[40:06.710 --> 40:08.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Listen, I was listening.
[40:08.690 --> 40:10.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: I love your program, by the way.
[40:10.470 --> 40:23.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's really interesting to me, and you helped us learn a lot about negotiating these things that we sort of ignore because we think we can't get them clear in our minds, so I appreciate that.
[40:24.090 --> 40:47.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: But when you were talking about the telephone company saying that there was a decrease in the amount of money that people paid for their services, I thought, yeah, well, mine decreased, but the reason why mine decreased was because I took out certain services that I was getting because I couldn't afford them anymore.
[40:47.570 --> 40:48.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: What services were those?
[40:48.650 --> 40:52.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, there was a basic touchstone, and there was a call waiting.
[40:52.610 --> 40:52.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[40:53.190 --> 40:56.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you know, the call waiting, what did they charge, $5 a month for that?
[40:56.650 --> 40:57.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[40:57.390 --> 40:59.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Whatever it was, I didn't want to pay it.
[40:59.730 --> 41:04.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, I'm going to tell you something, and everybody else, that will probably save you quite a bit.
[41:04.850 --> 41:10.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: First of all, it's very unfair to charge somebody for touchstones because, obviously, you have a touchstone phone, correct?
[41:11.090 --> 41:11.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[41:11.510 --> 41:12.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you can...
[41:12.150 --> 41:12.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are you on it now?
[41:12.890 --> 41:13.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[41:13.310 --> 41:14.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Press a button, any button.
[41:14.770 --> 41:15.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no, I know.
[41:15.450 --> 41:16.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: It works.
[41:16.550 --> 41:18.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: It works because you're creating the tones.
[41:18.650 --> 41:18.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Exactly.
[41:19.150 --> 41:20.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're your tones.
[41:20.150 --> 41:21.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: They don't belong to the phone company.
[41:21.210 --> 41:27.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: What the phone company does, the phone company is able to put a block on a line of somebody that doesn't pay.
[41:28.070 --> 41:37.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's all computerized, and the non-computerized switches can't do it because they can't tell the difference between a person that pays for touchstone and a person that doesn't.
[41:37.270 --> 41:44.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: The computerized switches, though, they can say, okay, block out tone access to these people, and that is all the technology that's at work.
[41:44.650 --> 41:45.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a standard feature.
[41:45.950 --> 41:50.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Touch-Tone, decoders, they're not even decoders anymore because they're standard features.
[41:50.590 --> 41:54.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's why I think it's very unfair to charge somebody for that.
[41:54.570 --> 42:01.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, in the case of call waiting, call waiting is kind of an annoying thing to have sometimes.
[42:01.250 --> 42:03.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's useful in other cases.
[42:04.010 --> 42:09.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: But $5 a month to have something that, you know, just that one feature is a bit much.
[42:09.470 --> 42:14.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can get a... actually, I don't know what's going to happen after this rate increase, if it is approved.
[42:14.850 --> 42:28.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: But right now, you can get another phone line in your house, apartment, for as little as, I believe, about $5 or $6 a month additional, which is almost the same as what you're paying now for call waiting, except you have another line.
[42:28.470 --> 42:36.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you can have what's known as call tripping, call hunting, actually, where if your line is busy, it will jump over to the next line.
[42:36.590 --> 42:39.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that service, folks, that service is free.
[42:39.170 --> 42:40.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's no charge for that.
[42:40.230 --> 42:40.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: They don't push that.
[42:40.930 --> 42:42.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: They don't tell you about that very much.
[42:42.190 --> 42:49.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: But there is no charge to have your calls jump from one line to the other if one line is busy.
[42:49.270 --> 42:52.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: The only condition is that they both be in the same exchange.
[42:52.990 --> 42:56.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: So you can set up what's known as an auxiliary line.
[42:56.890 --> 42:59.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's the word you've got to use when you order a new line.
[42:59.490 --> 43:00.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: They say you want an auxiliary line.
[43:00.910 --> 43:05.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: They won't charge you the full-fledged rate, which is about $20 a month for a phone line.
[43:05.370 --> 43:08.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they'll charge you, instead, about another $5 a month.
[43:08.110 --> 43:10.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Of course, you'll still have to pay the installation fee.
[43:10.610 --> 43:14.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I think after you pay that out, it'll be worthwhile.
[43:14.550 --> 43:19.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because not only will you have call waiting, you'll be able to do something like three-way, if you have a two-line phone.
[43:20.590 --> 43:22.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you'll just have another line.
[43:22.250 --> 43:24.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, you won't have to interrupt your calls.
[43:24.230 --> 43:25.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can ignore it.
[43:25.270 --> 43:26.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: An answering machine can get it.
[43:26.530 --> 43:28.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it's a lot more advantageous than call waiting.
[43:28.790 --> 43:30.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, one more question.
[43:30.350 --> 43:30.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[43:31.010 --> 43:32.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I appreciate your patience.
[43:32.890 --> 43:33.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's really nice to hear.
[43:40.870 --> 43:43.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I have two more in the apartment.
[43:44.450 --> 43:52.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: So that if I call and I say that I want an auxiliary line, they won't have to install anything.
[43:52.670 --> 43:54.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they will have to put in another interface.
[43:55.190 --> 43:57.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, I mean, they're going to charge you installation, yeah.
[43:57.550 --> 43:58.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: But they're not going to...
[43:58.730 --> 44:01.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think the rate for that is about $80.
[44:01.170 --> 44:05.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: But they can divide that over 12 months with no interest.
[44:05.450 --> 44:10.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: What I'm saying to you is that there are two more interfaces that belong to two previous lines.
[44:11.090 --> 44:11.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I see what you're saying.
[44:12.110 --> 44:12.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[44:12.570 --> 44:13.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: So they're already there.
[44:14.070 --> 44:14.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: Everything's here.
[44:14.850 --> 44:16.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what they do in cases like that.
[44:16.750 --> 44:18.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: They might still charge you the $80.
[44:18.510 --> 44:19.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: I know they charge you something.
[44:19.730 --> 44:22.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: But maybe it's as low as $60 or something.
[44:22.130 --> 44:23.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: But still, they charge you more than they should.
[44:24.510 --> 44:24.770]  Okay.
[44:25.190 --> 44:25.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's great.
[44:25.970 --> 44:26.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[44:26.230 --> 44:33.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: But what I'm saying great about it is it's great that you're telling me and I'm understanding it and I appreciate the way you do it.
[44:34.090 --> 44:36.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I'm glad you understand and I hope other people do.
[44:36.790 --> 44:39.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: But if not, give us a call and we'll try to explain it to you.
[44:39.750 --> 44:43.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I want to repeat the hearing dates and the hearing places.
[44:43.690 --> 44:44.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks very much for calling.
[44:44.630 --> 44:44.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[44:45.110 --> 44:45.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[44:46.150 --> 44:46.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: 279-3400.
[44:47.470 --> 44:56.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: The hearings on the rate increases, these outrageous rate increases that will see things like a 50-cent charge for information from payphones.
[44:56.670 --> 44:58.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, not long-distance information.
[44:58.330 --> 44:59.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: That used to be free, too.
[44:59.530 --> 45:02.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: It used to be free to call information anywhere from any kind of phone.
[45:03.450 --> 45:06.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now it's, I believe, 60 cents for long-distance information.
[45:07.590 --> 45:10.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: But 50 cents for local information.
[45:10.210 --> 45:16.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're walking along a street somewhere in New York City and you want to get the number for, oh, I don't know, a Chinese restaurant downtown.
[45:16.870 --> 45:22.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're going to have to pay 50 cents to find out what the number is and then an additional 25 cents to call it.
[45:23.070 --> 45:24.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: 75 cents for that.
[45:24.330 --> 45:26.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's kind of outrageous.
[45:27.550 --> 45:43.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, if you're outraged, upset, and angry, and you want to speak out about it, besides calling WBAI now, you can show up in person at a hearing on Wednesday, May 2nd at the Public Service Commission, 400 Broom Street.
[45:43.770 --> 45:45.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: B-R-O-O-M-E.
[45:45.490 --> 45:46.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's downtown.
[45:46.970 --> 45:48.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sixth floor, room A.
[45:49.070 --> 45:49.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hearing room A.
[45:49.910 --> 45:56.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: And their phone number is 212-488-4141.
[45:56.890 --> 45:58.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: 212-488-4141.
[45:58.930 --> 46:01.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: You've got to call up and register to speak.
[46:02.210 --> 46:03.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, you can say whatever you want.
[46:03.590 --> 46:05.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can talk for as long as you want, I understand.
[46:05.290 --> 46:10.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: A lot of our callers are probably like that because I know we get a lot of people that don't know when to stop sometimes.
[46:10.130 --> 46:12.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, this is the place to be, I guess.
[46:12.870 --> 46:13.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Public Service Commission.
[46:13.890 --> 46:16.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: We can just make this thing go on and on forever.
[46:17.130 --> 46:24.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Also, if you're out on Long Island, there's a couple of hearings on Monday, May 21st, 1 and 7 p.m., Hempstead Town Hall.
[46:25.410 --> 46:30.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: I could not find out from anybody when they're going to be reaching a decision on this.
[46:31.870 --> 46:33.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Unfortunately, nobody seems to know that.
[46:33.510 --> 46:36.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Public Service Commission was surprisingly ignorant about this whole thing.
[46:37.170 --> 46:37.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Makes you wonder.
[46:38.890 --> 46:41.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, 279-3400, area code 212.
[46:41.630 --> 46:41.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good morning.
[46:42.630 --> 46:44.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, hi, Hotep Elliott.
[46:44.270 --> 46:45.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: How are you tonight, this morning?
[46:46.070 --> 46:46.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm good.
[46:46.510 --> 46:46.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: How are you?
[46:47.010 --> 46:50.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm very well, and I'm enjoying your show immensely here.
[46:51.190 --> 46:53.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: Excuse me, you're bringing us some valuable information.
[46:54.210 --> 47:10.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: As you're telling us about the hearing, though, I'm thinking to myself, this hearing on this horrendous suggested increases, I mean, it's going to make phone service, which is such a vital necessity, pretty much inaccessible to, you know, those folks who fall lower middle class,
[47:10.750 --> 47:11.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: so to speak.
[47:11.450 --> 47:12.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's really horrendous.
[47:13.010 --> 47:28.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm also thinking that, you know, I'd like to see these hearings evolve more in that, you know, for those of us who, for example, and I'd like you to mention the time who can't be there directly, you would think that we'd be able to hook up a phone line and say our pieces.
[47:29.090 --> 47:32.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, this is an idea that I'm throwing out here.
[47:32.310 --> 47:33.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's a very good point.
[47:33.450 --> 47:43.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: The fact of the matter is, it takes you a very long time to get through to the Public Service Commission, because, as we demonstrated, they only have one incoming line to their 800 number, only two for their 212 number.
[47:43.410 --> 47:45.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's as if they don't want you to be able to reach them.
[47:45.810 --> 47:46.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[47:46.390 --> 47:46.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[47:46.790 --> 47:48.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'd just like to make one brief comment.
[47:49.630 --> 48:05.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: I got so muddled in trying to add another line, and, you know, the way the business office went about it in terms of my trying to get direct answers to direct questions, because I had spoken to a repairman one time, and he had said some things, and I couldn't get any,
[48:05.210 --> 48:07.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: you know, correct responses.
[48:07.790 --> 48:09.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: And there is a basic charge.
[48:10.130 --> 48:17.490]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, even if you get your own person to, you know, do the install, there is some sort of a basic charge that they charge to put in that line.
[48:17.790 --> 48:18.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's correct.
[48:18.330 --> 48:22.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: And lastly, I want to say keep up the good work.
[48:22.750 --> 48:29.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: I had the opportunity to get your, the hacker, the journal that came out from the last marathon.
[48:30.010 --> 48:31.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right, 2600.
[48:31.230 --> 48:32.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, 2600 magazine.
[48:32.970 --> 48:33.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: Very interesting.
[48:34.150 --> 48:44.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: The only thing that I would ask is, when you have some time one morning, for those of us who this is totally new to, we need a bit of a crash course to follow some of it.
[48:45.010 --> 48:47.910]  [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I figure if I keep reading it, I'll get more of a sense.
[48:48.110 --> 48:51.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you know, there's so many different aspects to this.
[48:51.190 --> 49:00.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, the consumer awareness is actually a very important part of computer hackers because they realize they're able to find out things that the average person doesn't have access to.
[49:00.990 --> 49:09.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: For instance, that whole scandal with the Touch-Tone fee that's found out through computer hackers realizing what's truly going on inside the telephone switches.
[49:10.510 --> 49:13.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: So consumer awareness is one aspect of it.
[49:13.330 --> 49:16.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: The technical aspects, that's something else.
[49:17.230 --> 49:18.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's all kinds of things.
[49:18.550 --> 49:23.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, yeah, crash course is necessary, but there's just so many aspects to it.
[49:23.650 --> 49:26.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, you'd have to pick something specific and then I could probably go over that.
[49:26.730 --> 49:28.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that would be great.
[49:28.250 --> 49:32.710]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we're just going to continue to listen to your vital information there.
[49:32.910 --> 49:46.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: And one thing as regards Touch-Tone, as I recall, when I signed up for this service, I had like a special rate that gave me the, you know, Touch-Tone, speed calling, call folding, and I had three-way calling.
[49:46.370 --> 49:50.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: And the phone company gives the impression that you have this rate throughout.
[49:50.790 --> 49:56.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: And then at some point, it seems to break down where you are paying like $5 just for the call waiting.
[49:56.530 --> 50:00.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's, you know, the advertising is not really truthful.
[50:01.270 --> 50:07.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, all it is, all it is, is a keystroke on a computer and you have it or you don't.
[50:07.150 --> 50:08.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: That is really all it boils down to.
[50:08.810 --> 50:11.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know, what justifies $5 a month?
[50:11.230 --> 50:13.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: What are you getting for $5 a month?
[50:13.350 --> 50:17.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, you're getting a certain option and, you know, perhaps you should pay something for that.
[50:17.910 --> 50:20.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: But that's an outrageous amount just to do that.
[50:20.190 --> 50:23.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's like paying to have your name not listed in the phone book.
[50:23.850 --> 50:26.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, why are you paying to have your name not listed?
[50:26.190 --> 50:27.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's so crazy.
[50:27.450 --> 50:27.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[50:27.990 --> 50:30.150]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I'm just wondering, is there any group...
[50:30.150 --> 50:35.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you seem to be doing some wonderful work with your ideas and what you know should be.
[50:35.310 --> 50:38.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, you know, you're one person out there.
[50:38.410 --> 50:40.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: Are you... I guess you're doing it through the...
[50:40.890 --> 50:43.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: perhaps the $2,600 or whatever.
[50:43.710 --> 50:45.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm just wondering, is there any...
[50:45.830 --> 50:48.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, do you address these issues in other ways?
[50:48.590 --> 50:53.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: Or is there any group that's, you know, asking the phone company why we're paying to be non-listed?
[50:53.770 --> 50:59.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you know, I don't know of one particular group that targets the phone company other than the magazine itself.
[51:00.830 --> 51:03.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we're not really a consumer-oriented...
[51:03.890 --> 51:06.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, we don't do this kind of thing ordinarily.
[51:06.430 --> 51:07.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: But there should be.
[51:07.710 --> 51:09.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, if there is, I'd like to hear about it.
[51:09.790 --> 51:17.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: I imagine any kind of better business bureau or consumer awareness group would cover this because I don't think they cover it exclusively.
[51:17.670 --> 51:20.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: So if anyone has information on that, call in and let us know.
[51:20.810 --> 51:21.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's a very good point, though.
[51:21.930 --> 51:23.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: There should be a group like that.
[51:23.730 --> 51:24.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: Certainly.
[51:24.350 --> 51:26.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: And thank God for WBAI.
[51:26.570 --> 51:26.950]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[51:27.170 --> 51:27.910]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for calling.
[51:28.030 --> 51:28.630]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, hold that.
[51:30.830 --> 51:32.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: 279-3400 is our telephone number.
[51:32.630 --> 51:35.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Another thing, another rip-off, okay, that's always bothered me.
[51:36.090 --> 51:38.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: And again, this comes from being a computer hacker.
[51:38.790 --> 51:43.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: This comes from being a phone phreak and playing around enough and realizing what's really going on, okay?
[51:44.370 --> 51:45.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on a payphone, right?
[51:45.850 --> 51:46.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: You've put a quarter in.
[51:46.750 --> 51:49.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, phone phreaks put quarters in occasionally just to see what happens.
[51:49.730 --> 51:58.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, you're on the phone and the little computer comes on and says, please deposit five cents for the next one minute or whatever, okay?
[51:58.490 --> 51:59.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: You don't have a nickel.
[51:59.470 --> 52:00.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have a quarter.
[52:00.210 --> 52:01.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: You put a quarter in.
[52:02.450 --> 52:05.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then a minute later, it asks you for five cents again.
[52:05.810 --> 52:11.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, you would think, with all the technology, I mean, the Hubble Space Telescope is up there floating around now.
[52:11.210 --> 52:13.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're talking about going to Mars and all that kind of thing.
[52:14.350 --> 52:22.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: You would think that the phone company, New York Telephone, would be able to tell the difference between a quarter and a nickel when it asks you for more money.
[52:22.870 --> 52:36.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: And sure, they're able to tell the difference because when you put in one of those coins, you hear either one little beep for a nickel, two beeps for a dime, or five beeps for a quarter, okay?
[52:36.990 --> 52:42.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Those are the tones that tell the payphone, that tell the mechanism what has been put in.
[52:42.630 --> 52:48.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: However, when it asks you for more money for some reason, they don't differentiate.
[52:48.990 --> 52:50.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: They treat everything as if it's a nickel.
[52:51.710 --> 52:54.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: So if you put a quarter in, you've just lost 20 cents.
[52:55.650 --> 52:57.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, there is a way around that.
[52:57.430 --> 52:58.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: It doesn't always work.
[52:58.750 --> 53:01.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: But occasionally, an operator comes on and demands the money in person.
[53:02.090 --> 53:06.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you tell that operator, hey, I put in a quarter there, usually they'll do something about it.
[53:06.850 --> 53:12.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: They'll either send your quarter back down to you or give you a credit in some way.
[53:12.610 --> 53:15.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: A lot of calls are disconnected, though, by the computer.
[53:15.410 --> 53:18.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: The computer threatens to terminate your call if you don't put more money in.
[53:18.750 --> 53:20.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it usually carries out that threat.
[53:20.690 --> 53:22.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: But that's just another instance.
[53:22.430 --> 53:25.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's something that the phone company has been getting away with for years.
[53:25.870 --> 53:27.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: No one ever brings this up.
[53:27.250 --> 53:31.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: No one ever tries to change it because nobody really is aware of it.
[53:31.850 --> 53:33.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: But how could they get away with something like that?
[53:34.010 --> 53:35.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, ask yourself that question.
[53:35.170 --> 53:39.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: How could they get away with literally taking your money?
[53:41.110 --> 53:43.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Something to ponder there.
[53:44.030 --> 53:44.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: 279-3400.
[53:45.290 --> 53:51.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're talking about the phone company, about the rate increase that will double people's rates in New York.
[53:52.490 --> 53:53.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll charge you for information.
[53:54.010 --> 53:55.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll charge you to call the operator.
[53:56.270 --> 54:00.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know of any other place in the world where they charge you to call the operator.
[54:01.310 --> 54:02.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Scary times ahead.
[54:02.810 --> 54:03.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good morning.
[54:04.150 --> 54:04.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[54:04.650 --> 54:05.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is this WBAI?
[54:05.710 --> 54:06.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is it.
[54:06.830 --> 54:07.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: Can I be on the air?
[54:07.950 --> 54:08.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, you are.
[54:08.570 --> 54:08.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[54:09.170 --> 54:09.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, hey.
[54:09.710 --> 54:10.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: How's it going?
[54:10.310 --> 54:10.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, how are you?
[54:11.110 --> 54:11.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sorry about that, Eric.
[54:12.310 --> 54:12.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's all right.
[54:12.710 --> 54:15.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm your regular USB call from Lake Rock, Hakama.
[54:15.870 --> 54:17.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, not bad, eh?
[54:18.190 --> 54:21.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, I actually was surprised to hear your voice on WBAI.
[54:21.390 --> 54:22.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: So how can we help you?
[54:23.050 --> 54:26.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I was an old TAP magazine reader.
[54:26.270 --> 54:26.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[54:26.670 --> 54:31.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: I used to play around years ago when it was a lot safer to do so.
[54:32.190 --> 54:38.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: And when that operator gets on the phone, he goes, can you please deposit another five cents or 25 cents?
[54:39.010 --> 54:42.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: All you've got to do is walk around with your little portable Walkman with your recorded tones.
[54:42.890 --> 54:44.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Those little...
[54:44.010 --> 54:46.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: What they're called is red box tones.
[54:46.150 --> 54:50.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: And yeah, those are the tones that tell you what denomination of money has been put in.
[54:50.990 --> 54:52.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a bit more sophisticated today.
[54:52.790 --> 54:58.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's all kinds of mercury release kind of things, mechanisms inside the phone that verify if a coin has actually been put in.
[54:58.530 --> 55:00.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: But a lot of people do get around it still.
[55:00.710 --> 55:00.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[55:01.570 --> 55:05.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I wanted to complain about that wire fee.
[55:05.650 --> 55:05.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[55:06.450 --> 55:08.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: That thing has got to be one of the most...
[55:08.970 --> 55:10.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: one of the biggest rip-offs.
[55:10.430 --> 55:12.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think that it's really obnoxious.
[55:12.890 --> 55:22.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because I called up I think about four times the question about what did the fee cover and why I was getting charged it.
[55:22.690 --> 55:22.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[55:23.090 --> 55:29.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the last time I called because I realized it was still on my line and I voted to get it off.
[55:29.950 --> 55:34.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because all my lines are exposed and if I ever have any problems I'll just replace the entire line.
[55:35.170 --> 55:35.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[55:35.950 --> 55:36.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Of course.
[55:36.630 --> 55:38.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: But you know what she told me, the operator?
[55:38.550 --> 55:38.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: What's that?
[55:38.970 --> 55:46.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, the business officer wherever I was talking to she goes, well, just to call up and have us check the line from the computer you're going to be charged.
[55:47.190 --> 55:48.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's not true.
[55:48.930 --> 55:51.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's definitely not true because I do that all the time.
[55:52.090 --> 55:54.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: You call repair service and they automatically check the line.
[55:54.790 --> 55:56.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: She said as long as they take the...
[55:57.270 --> 56:03.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: if I take the line charge off that I'll be charged to inquire about my line.
[56:04.190 --> 56:06.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: You should have gotten her name or his name.
[56:06.270 --> 56:06.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Really?
[56:06.790 --> 56:07.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because that's...
[56:08.050 --> 56:09.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: that's just not true.
[56:09.850 --> 56:20.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: What I always like to do with any kind of question involving the phone company I always like to call up twice and ask the exact same questions because I usually get completely different answers to the very simple things.
[56:20.910 --> 56:21.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know?
[56:21.230 --> 56:41.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: One person I was arguing about this this is when they were doing the telemarketing like really trying to encourage you to buy their Touch-Tone service and I said well you know I can make a call now using my pulse phone and then switch to tone and access my long distance company or my bank by phone computer or whatever and they said no that won't work you won't be able to access anything if you
[56:41.450 --> 56:47.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: don't pay for Touch-Tones and that's completely misleading completely false and a lot of people fell for it.
[56:47.830 --> 56:48.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah I know.
[56:49.130 --> 56:57.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: I used to like the old switching system when you just take a Touch-Tone phone that you bought and you know put it on your line and it works.
[56:57.590 --> 57:03.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: It works because there's no real difference between any lines and the only difference is ones that they install.
[57:05.250 --> 57:06.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: They went to a computer you know?
[57:06.890 --> 57:23.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah everything is computer driven these days and they can tell you you know they could say okay we won't allow any threes you know and they'll call you up one day and they'll say let's sell you the three key sir imagine how important the three is to you because if you can't If you can't use a 3 in daily life,
[57:23.430 --> 57:24.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: you won't be able to call any numbers with a 3 in it.
[57:25.030 --> 57:29.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: So they can actually tell the computer to ignore any 3s coming from you.
[57:29.630 --> 57:31.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, that's what we're talking about, folks.
[57:31.650 --> 57:33.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe that'll put it into perspective a little bit.
[57:33.350 --> 57:34.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's the same thing, you know.
[57:34.950 --> 57:36.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: They don't own the number.
[57:36.330 --> 57:37.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: They don't own the tones.
[57:38.310 --> 57:39.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's amazing, though.
[57:39.710 --> 57:41.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: Back to the idea of them...
[57:41.450 --> 57:43.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: Like, it was very apropos that shows on...
[57:43.430 --> 57:46.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we're talking about this because Ma Bell called me up today.
[57:47.070 --> 57:51.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they tried telling me $5 for, you know...
[57:51.990 --> 57:53.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: Call waiting, three-way calling, you know.
[57:53.850 --> 57:55.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: Their whole spiel, they gave me their whole rundown.
[57:56.330 --> 57:58.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I just said, listen, it's not worth it.
[57:58.490 --> 57:59.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I said, that was it.
[57:59.810 --> 58:03.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's just amazing because all they have to do is spend about 5 minutes...
[58:03.430 --> 58:04.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not even.
[58:04.850 --> 58:06.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: Type it in, and you're accessed.
[58:06.830 --> 58:07.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yeah.
[58:07.350 --> 58:07.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's it.
[58:08.010 --> 58:09.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it's done in the course of that call.
[58:09.990 --> 58:11.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's not even another person they have to involve.
[58:12.150 --> 58:13.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let me just clear up one thing.
[58:13.670 --> 58:16.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: I know you know the difference, but a lot of folks might not.
[58:16.230 --> 58:19.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: When you refer to Ma Bell, there is no real Ma Bell anymore.
[58:19.830 --> 58:26.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: When the phone company was broken up in 1984, it was divided into many different companies.
[58:26.690 --> 58:34.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: AT&T is the long-distance company, and that's the remnants of AT&T, long lines, Ma Bell, the really big Ma Bell.
[58:34.990 --> 58:39.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: What we have now are local companies, and New York Telephone is one of those local companies.
[58:39.690 --> 58:48.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: While you have lots of competition on the long-distance front, you've got AT&T, you've got MCI, Sprint, and you can keep going with a lot of other ones, too.
[58:48.870 --> 58:56.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: There is only one local company, and that's New York Telephone, a subsidiary of NYNEX, which comprises New England Telephone as well.
[58:56.370 --> 58:59.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: You don't have a choice, and that's what's so unfair here.
[58:59.070 --> 59:02.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: If AT&T does something that's unfair, at least you can jump to MCI.
[59:02.450 --> 59:06.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: But if New York Telephone does something that's unfair, you're screwed.
[59:06.330 --> 59:07.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's nothing you can do.
[59:07.710 --> 59:09.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, you're locked into whatever they say.
[59:09.730 --> 59:13.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's exactly it, and that's why it's important for folks to speak out when something is unfair.
[59:14.110 --> 59:16.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think there's a lot that's unfair in these proposals.
[59:17.130 --> 59:22.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, and the phone company is a joke because they never...
[59:22.510 --> 59:23.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're just...
[59:23.330 --> 59:34.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, like that gentleman I got on before about keeping his line, the old wire, or getting in the new jack, and it's just that they don't tell you.
[59:35.070 --> 59:38.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: They have no idea on their own policies.
[59:38.710 --> 59:39.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[59:39.390 --> 59:44.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: They just don't know how to explain it because they weren't explained to them to begin with.
[59:44.950 --> 59:47.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's what they thrive upon.
[59:47.870 --> 59:57.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: I know people that have worked for phone companies, and almost across the board, they encourage you not to ask questions, to just accept the company line.
[59:57.730 --> 59:59.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you ask too many questions, you're obviously troubled.
[01:00:00.130 --> 01:00:03.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: They don't want people to know very much about the way things really work.
[01:00:03.650 --> 01:00:13.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: They want to be able to make their decisions and just have you carry out their orders and inform customers their biggest threat as far as they're concerned.
[01:00:14.830 --> 01:00:20.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you know anybody in management that still has any human qualities, I'm sure they'll confirm this.
[01:00:20.630 --> 01:00:21.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah, definitely.
[01:00:21.970 --> 01:00:22.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks very much for calling.
[01:00:22.970 --> 01:00:24.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: I want to go to some more calls.
[01:00:25.970 --> 01:00:28.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, 279-3400 is our telephone number.
[01:00:29.650 --> 01:00:36.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, again, let's give out the hearing addresses and times and dates and all that kind of thing.
[01:00:36.850 --> 01:00:41.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wednesday, May 2nd, there's going to be a hearing in front of the Public Service Commission.
[01:00:41.710 --> 01:00:43.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's at the Public Service Commission.
[01:00:43.750 --> 01:00:45.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: 400 Broom Street.
[01:00:46.210 --> 01:00:48.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: The street where they sweep things up.
[01:00:48.610 --> 01:00:49.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Broom Street.
[01:00:49.990 --> 01:00:52.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hearing Room A on the 6th floor.
[01:00:52.810 --> 01:00:54.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sure you won't have a problem finding it.
[01:00:54.730 --> 01:00:56.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: It'll be the one that's mobbed.
[01:00:56.850 --> 01:01:03.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I hope there's enough room on the 6th floor for all these people because, you know, hopefully there'll be a lot of people there.
[01:01:03.670 --> 01:01:06.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: There should be because this is affecting everybody in the city.
[01:01:06.690 --> 01:01:07.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Everybody in the city.
[01:01:07.610 --> 01:01:08.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Everybody in the state.
[01:01:09.490 --> 01:01:15.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, not coming to this hearing is inexcusable as far as I'm concerned.
[01:01:15.390 --> 01:01:23.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, it's beginning at 12.15, but it's going to go on for quite a long time if everybody has their say, like the Public Service said.
[01:01:23.890 --> 01:01:29.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Also, if you're out on Long Island, Monday, May 21st, 1 p.m.
[01:01:29.610 --> 01:01:30.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: and 7 p.m.
[01:01:30.970 --> 01:01:32.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: at the Hempstead Town Hall.
[01:01:33.510 --> 01:01:45.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you want more information, if you want to call the Public Service Commission, I suggest you get up at 8.59 in the morning and start your speed dialer going because the number seems to be busy from 9 to 5.
[01:01:45.390 --> 01:01:47.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then after 5 o'clock it just rings.
[01:01:48.190 --> 01:01:51.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's 800-342-3377.
[01:01:51.610 --> 01:01:54.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you do get through, you're the only person in New York on that line.
[01:01:55.570 --> 01:02:01.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: The number for the Public Service Commission in New York, 212-488-4141.
[01:02:02.610 --> 01:02:04.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we do have a Buffalo number as well.
[01:02:05.010 --> 01:02:06.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry, an Albany number.
[01:02:06.390 --> 01:02:08.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: 518-474-5527.
[01:02:09.250 --> 01:02:10.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Public Service Commission.
[01:02:10.390 --> 01:02:15.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're the ones that can reject this or approve this.
[01:02:17.590 --> 01:02:18.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Shocking.
[01:02:18.330 --> 01:02:19.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, that's the only word for it.
[01:02:20.130 --> 01:02:21.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: 279-3400.
[01:02:21.490 --> 01:02:22.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: The program is The Fifth Corner.
[01:02:22.710 --> 01:02:25.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein, and we're here for another 16 minutes.
[01:02:26.090 --> 01:02:26.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good morning.
[01:02:27.550 --> 01:02:27.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello.
[01:02:28.010 --> 01:02:28.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[01:02:29.230 --> 01:02:30.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, hello.
[01:02:31.150 --> 01:02:31.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Speak.
[01:02:32.610 --> 01:02:33.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: How are you doing today?
[01:02:33.430 --> 01:02:34.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm doing just fine.
[01:02:34.330 --> 01:02:34.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: How are you?
[01:02:35.010 --> 01:02:35.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: Very well.
[01:02:35.770 --> 01:02:41.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, I'd like to thank you very much for telling us all about long lines and AT&T.
[01:02:41.470 --> 01:02:43.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: I wrote that down in my little book here.
[01:02:43.270 --> 01:02:44.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's good.
[01:02:44.130 --> 01:02:46.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think everybody should be keeping a little book somewhere.
[01:02:46.310 --> 01:02:47.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: This little book, it says, Mobbell.
[01:02:47.850 --> 01:02:48.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now there's AT&T.
[01:02:49.050 --> 01:02:50.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: See, now I know it was put into two parts.
[01:02:50.830 --> 01:02:53.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I think you forgot to mention, perhaps.
[01:02:53.710 --> 01:02:54.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, bypass?
[01:02:55.710 --> 01:02:56.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bypass?
[01:02:56.470 --> 01:02:56.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[01:02:57.170 --> 01:02:57.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, explain.
[01:02:57.770 --> 01:03:02.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: You have a private switch, and you have a satellite, and you have a private switch.
[01:03:02.250 --> 01:03:02.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, sure.
[01:03:02.670 --> 01:03:03.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can do that, but...
[01:03:03.870 --> 01:03:04.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: But then again...
[01:03:04.550 --> 01:03:10.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: But how many residential customers are going to install a huge mechanism like that?
[01:03:10.110 --> 01:03:13.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it can be done, but nobody is doing it on a mass scale.
[01:03:13.870 --> 01:03:14.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, only businesses.
[01:03:14.970 --> 01:03:16.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: A couple of businesses are doing it.
[01:03:16.390 --> 01:03:17.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're bypassing New York Telephone.
[01:03:17.450 --> 01:03:19.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'd like to know how they're making out cost-wise.
[01:03:19.570 --> 01:03:23.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, but there is no alternative for most of us.
[01:03:23.170 --> 01:03:24.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can usually get...
[01:03:24.930 --> 01:03:27.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: I guess you can get a PBX hooked up to a Sprinter or something like that.
[01:03:28.430 --> 01:03:29.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: Or can you?
[01:03:29.770 --> 01:03:32.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, a private branch exchange, PBX.
[01:03:32.370 --> 01:03:33.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, you can...
[01:03:33.130 --> 01:03:37.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can have that hooked up directly into, uh, another long-distance company's lines.
[01:03:37.170 --> 01:03:38.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, but I don't think you'll be able to make local calls.
[01:03:39.530 --> 01:03:39.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh.
[01:03:39.990 --> 01:03:41.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, anyway, I have something to read.
[01:03:42.270 --> 01:03:43.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, okay, make it fast.
[01:03:43.690 --> 01:03:46.190]  [SPEAKER_14]: Then a local Newsweek, April 30th, 1990.
[01:03:46.530 --> 01:03:47.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it is...
[01:03:47.010 --> 01:03:48.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is the article about hackers.
[01:03:48.230 --> 01:03:49.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, we're going to talk about that in two weeks.
[01:03:50.310 --> 01:03:50.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, in two weeks?
[01:03:50.990 --> 01:03:52.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I already heard about this.
[01:03:52.770 --> 01:03:54.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: I haven't read it yet myself, but I've heard about it.
[01:03:54.810 --> 01:03:56.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, only the first paragraph, basically.
[01:03:56.930 --> 01:03:57.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, read the first paragraph.
[01:03:57.890 --> 01:03:59.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: It'll be sort of a preview as to what we're going to talk about in two weeks.
[01:04:00.110 --> 01:04:04.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: New Jackson Games is the kind of funky little company that no one pays much attention to.
[01:04:04.690 --> 01:04:07.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: So imagine their surprise when they were raided by the Secret Service.
[01:04:08.070 --> 01:04:16.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: The Austin-based firm produces adventure games, vaguely nerdy pastime most of us know, if at all, by fantasy role-playing games like Dungeons & Dragons.
[01:04:16.550 --> 01:04:20.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: Lately, company founder Steve Jackson has been wondering who's fantasy he has wandered into.
[01:04:21.550 --> 01:04:28.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: On March 1st, law enforcement officials confiscated computers, laser printers, and some spare parts from his offices.
[01:04:28.630 --> 01:04:34.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: Their target appeared to be Cyberpunk, a rulebook for a new Jackson game.
[01:04:34.570 --> 01:04:46.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: Named after the science fiction subgenre that conjures up a forbidding Orwellian future, Cyberbunk describes techniques for hacking into computers and encouraging players to break into fictitious machines.
[01:04:46.930 --> 01:04:50.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: Agents told in Incredulous Jackson that the text was a handbook on computer crime.
[01:04:51.930 --> 01:04:56.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that'll give you an indication of where things stand in the computer hacker world.
[01:04:56.510 --> 01:04:57.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, there's been a lot of raids.
[01:04:57.790 --> 01:04:59.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's been a lot of government action.
[01:05:00.350 --> 01:05:14.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, then it goes on to say that while admitting his company wasn't a target, they said two employees with reputations as hackers were under investigation, which still doesn't explain, like, why they raided a video game company.
[01:05:14.250 --> 01:05:15.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: They raided a video game company.
[01:05:16.010 --> 01:05:18.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you're going to see raids of all kinds in the future.
[01:05:19.150 --> 01:05:24.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: But again, that's what we're going to talk about in two weeks, what the Secret Service is doing to computer hackers.
[01:05:24.570 --> 01:05:26.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think it's something that will open up a lot of eyes.
[01:05:27.210 --> 01:05:29.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I thought that would say quite...
[01:05:29.450 --> 01:05:31.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Any other questions on the matter at hand?
[01:05:31.830 --> 01:05:32.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: At the matter at hand?
[01:05:33.870 --> 01:05:35.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, not an inning that I could think of.
[01:05:35.610 --> 01:05:38.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, well, then I have no choice but to wish you a good night.
[01:05:38.330 --> 01:05:39.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Have a very nice night.
[01:05:39.230 --> 01:05:39.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:05:40.850 --> 01:05:41.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: 279-3400.
[01:05:41.810 --> 01:05:42.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good morning.
[01:05:42.910 --> 01:05:43.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello.
[01:05:43.710 --> 01:05:44.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: How are you doing?
[01:05:44.490 --> 01:05:44.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: My hand.
[01:05:45.490 --> 01:05:46.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: I had to pull the headphones off.
[01:05:47.170 --> 01:05:48.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's very confusing.
[01:05:48.430 --> 01:05:49.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it sure does, especially when you're on delay.
[01:05:50.210 --> 01:05:50.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[01:05:50.930 --> 01:05:53.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: I saw you on TV a couple weeks back.
[01:05:53.610 --> 01:05:54.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, what, the CBS thing?
[01:05:54.970 --> 01:05:56.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: I guess that's what it was.
[01:05:56.290 --> 01:06:01.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: I was just kind of flipping the dial, and they were talking about hackers and the guy that went to jail.
[01:06:01.830 --> 01:06:03.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Was it really early in the morning?
[01:06:04.270 --> 01:06:08.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: I tell you, I was on the West Coast at the time.
[01:06:08.890 --> 01:06:09.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh.
[01:06:09.710 --> 01:06:11.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: It wasn't early in the morning out there.
[01:06:11.670 --> 01:06:18.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: As a matter of fact, thinking on it, I believe it was like in the afternoon, maybe.
[01:06:18.330 --> 01:06:19.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: I really don't remember.
[01:06:19.470 --> 01:06:25.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: All I remember is that I was watching the TV, and they started talking about that.
[01:06:25.170 --> 01:06:26.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: So I said, well, let me watch this for a minute.
[01:06:26.770 --> 01:06:29.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: And sure enough, now I know what you look like.
[01:06:30.010 --> 01:06:31.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, don't spread that around.
[01:06:31.690 --> 01:06:32.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, hey, that's pretty cool.
[01:06:33.110 --> 01:06:36.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: So do you have any questions or comments on this whole phone company?
[01:06:36.910 --> 01:06:39.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, well, one comment I had on what you were talking about.
[01:06:39.390 --> 01:06:50.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Of course, the charge is outrageous, and it's just, it's all, it's like charging for information.
[01:06:52.170 --> 01:07:00.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't just mean like phone number information, but it's information in general that you have to pay for.
[01:07:00.210 --> 01:07:08.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, you know, you have to, in order to get, to get decent TV, you have to pay to get cable.
[01:07:08.530 --> 01:07:09.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[01:07:09.130 --> 01:07:15.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: In order to get, to have decent phone service now, you're going to be starting to see these, these exorbitant charges for that.
[01:07:15.930 --> 01:07:16.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, you've noticed that, haven't you?
[01:07:17.270 --> 01:07:19.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: We seem to be paying for more things.
[01:07:19.790 --> 01:07:24.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, we pay something like 30 cents now, 35 cents to find out what time it is.
[01:07:25.110 --> 01:07:27.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, that's something I never could understand why people would do that.
[01:07:27.910 --> 01:07:31.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll tell you, folks, it's 11 minutes to 1 o'clock now, and you don't have to give me anything.
[01:07:32.170 --> 01:07:33.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it's that simple.
[01:07:33.510 --> 01:07:36.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: We should be, information should be freely exchanged, not sold.
[01:07:36.950 --> 01:07:37.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Of course, of course.
[01:07:38.210 --> 01:07:39.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's so incredible.
[01:07:39.730 --> 01:07:59.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: The bit about the Touch-Tones and the pulse phones, isn't it, isn't it actually, it's actually easier, right, for the phone company to deal with your Touch-Tone phone than it is, don't they have to like kind of, kind of, isn't it kind of a throwback when somebody uses a regular dial phone,
[01:07:59.350 --> 01:08:00.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: a pulse phone?
[01:08:00.310 --> 01:08:00.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yeah.
[01:08:00.730 --> 01:08:04.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, it slows things down quite a bit when you use a Touch-Tone phone.
[01:08:04.230 --> 01:08:06.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Obviously, the calls go through faster for the phone company.
[01:08:06.530 --> 01:08:07.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can make more calls.
[01:08:07.710 --> 01:08:10.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: It only, you know, it's an advantage to them.
[01:08:10.930 --> 01:08:11.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Of course it is.
[01:08:11.690 --> 01:08:19.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, though, isn't there like, at some point in the phone company, don't they have to translate your pulses into tones?
[01:08:19.490 --> 01:08:19.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, sure, yeah.
[01:08:20.050 --> 01:08:26.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: They have to translate them into MF tones, which, multi-frequency tones, which, again, get sent out over the long-distance network.
[01:08:27.130 --> 01:08:30.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: So in order to make their job easier, you have to pay them money.
[01:08:30.850 --> 01:08:31.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Basically, that's it.
[01:08:31.830 --> 01:08:33.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're doing it because they can get away with it.
[01:08:33.990 --> 01:08:35.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's really what it boils down to.
[01:08:35.450 --> 01:08:41.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I've had people inside the phone company tell me that, that, yes, it's because nobody understands what's really going on.
[01:08:41.070 --> 01:08:42.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the only reason they're able to get away with it.
[01:08:43.030 --> 01:08:44.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's like that Lily Tomlin character.
[01:08:44.630 --> 01:08:45.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: What was her name?
[01:08:45.170 --> 01:08:45.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: Edith, you know?
[01:08:45.950 --> 01:08:48.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: She said, you know, it's like, you don't like it?
[01:08:48.410 --> 01:08:50.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, go get two tin cans and a string.
[01:08:50.430 --> 01:08:51.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's basically it.
[01:08:51.410 --> 01:08:55.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Again, there's no competition on the local front, and I think it's about time there was.
[01:08:55.250 --> 01:08:59.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: But what, you know, how, how, what, why?
[01:08:59.350 --> 01:09:00.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: How can somebody do that?
[01:09:00.670 --> 01:09:14.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, I like, I always liked having a CB radio, you know, because then you could have local communications, you know, within a, say, a five-mile radius, you know, with anybody else who had a CB radio, at least.
[01:09:14.970 --> 01:09:15.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[01:09:15.430 --> 01:09:17.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, but, and that's absolutely free.
[01:09:17.550 --> 01:09:21.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: You plug it in while you're paying for the, the, the AC power that it uses, but that's negligible.
[01:09:22.290 --> 01:09:22.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:09:22.710 --> 01:09:33.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you know, there's, there's all kinds of ways of, of communicating that are, there are new ways, like computer bulletin boards, for instance, and that's why a lot of people are very frightened, a lot of authorities are very frightened by, by computer bulletin boards,
[01:09:33.930 --> 01:09:38.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: because it gives you the ease that you can't get on the, on, on telephones.
[01:09:38.050 --> 01:09:42.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Things like anonymity, you know, that's, that's what everybody's all concerned about now.
[01:09:42.690 --> 01:09:44.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can't be anonymous on the telephone anymore.
[01:09:44.630 --> 01:09:45.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have to have caller ID.
[01:09:46.130 --> 01:09:52.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: A lot of people are very concerned and afraid of, of people being anonymous and saying what's really on their minds.
[01:09:52.330 --> 01:09:55.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's why computer bulletin boards are looked upon as a real threat.
[01:09:55.630 --> 01:10:10.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: I wonder if anybody's hacking into, I know that the ham radio operators, they have packet networks, what they call, right, which is like a radio computer bulletin board service that you, if you have the radio, the proper ham radio equipment, it's the same thing as a,
[01:10:10.830 --> 01:10:14.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: as a regular telephone BBS, except you're going through a radio.
[01:10:14.950 --> 01:10:17.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I'm wondering if they get anybody that hacks into those systems.
[01:10:18.130 --> 01:10:19.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I'm sure they could tell you stories.
[01:10:19.590 --> 01:10:23.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: I know, uh, I know there are people there that have told me some stories.
[01:10:23.850 --> 01:10:25.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know the exact particulars, though.
[01:10:25.590 --> 01:10:25.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: Really?
[01:10:25.870 --> 01:10:27.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, yeah, there's, there's things going on everywhere.
[01:10:28.290 --> 01:10:28.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, interesting.
[01:10:29.190 --> 01:10:30.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, thanks a lot.
[01:10:30.130 --> 01:10:31.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was interesting seeing you on TV.
[01:10:31.750 --> 01:10:40.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, um, I, I agree with a lot of your, uh, with, actually with all of the, uh, all of the, uh, your, all the ideas that you've put forth and stuff.
[01:10:41.070 --> 01:10:41.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, and I hope you...
[01:10:41.930 --> 01:10:44.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, as long as you know why you agree, that's cool.
[01:10:44.130 --> 01:10:47.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Continue to provide us with this information, because it is important stuff.
[01:10:48.110 --> 01:10:49.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, thanks very much for calling.
[01:10:49.530 --> 01:10:49.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye.
[01:10:51.310 --> 01:10:52.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: 279-3400.
[01:10:52.330 --> 01:10:53.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's see if we can get through these.
[01:10:53.930 --> 01:10:54.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good morning.
[01:10:58.480 --> 01:11:02.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what it is, but, oh, it's always on that line I get those kind of calls.
[01:11:02.220 --> 01:11:02.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why is that?
[01:11:02.960 --> 01:11:04.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, it's a random thing here, you know.
[01:11:05.400 --> 01:11:08.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: All the calls show up in the order that they're received, but it's always that line.
[01:11:09.920 --> 01:11:10.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good morning.
[01:11:11.920 --> 01:11:12.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, hi.
[01:11:13.680 --> 01:11:17.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: I, I, yeah, I wanted to know about the, uh, the interface.
[01:11:18.320 --> 01:11:18.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:11:19.500 --> 01:11:21.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: That you were talking about a minute ago.
[01:11:21.480 --> 01:11:22.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: What's that interface, Jack?
[01:11:22.880 --> 01:11:31.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, the interface is basically the, the connection between where a New York telephone, uh, drops off its wire and where your wire begins.
[01:11:32.180 --> 01:11:34.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Either the wire to your telephone or the wire to your apartment.
[01:11:35.280 --> 01:11:38.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's basically, the interface is a dividing line.
[01:11:38.500 --> 01:11:42.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: They service everything up to that point, and everything past that point is your responsibility.
[01:11:42.720 --> 01:11:50.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: So if, if your phone doesn't work, if there's something wrong with your phone, the solution is to go over to the interface, plug the phone in there, and see if it works.
[01:11:51.120 --> 01:11:53.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: If it doesn't work, plug another phone in, see if that works.
[01:11:54.020 --> 01:12:00.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: If that doesn't work, then you can be reasonably sure that the problem lies beyond the interface, and therefore is New York Telephone's problem.
[01:12:00.500 --> 01:12:06.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, but the, the box looks different than the, than, than the screw mount box that is there that I have now?
[01:12:06.920 --> 01:12:08.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it's slightly bigger.
[01:12:09.080 --> 01:12:14.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's got a little... kind of a door that closes over it.
[01:12:14.440 --> 01:12:19.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: So you have to lift it up and plug the phone in, and then it sort of snaps down on top of the wire.
[01:12:19.440 --> 01:12:21.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, so that's like a modular connection.
[01:12:21.820 --> 01:12:26.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it's a modular connection, except it has a little lever or door or something over it.
[01:12:26.260 --> 01:12:27.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what you call that thing.
[01:12:27.240 --> 01:12:28.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, but it's no big deal.
[01:12:28.540 --> 01:12:30.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I don't have to change to that, no?
[01:12:31.000 --> 01:12:44.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's to your advantage to have that, and I believe, and I'm not certain about this, I still haven't had it confirmed, but I believe the phone company is required to switch those over at the point... it could be in your basement, in your garage, in your closet.
[01:12:44.160 --> 01:12:48.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know exactly where that point of where the phone company comes in is.
[01:12:49.500 --> 01:12:54.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, now, this wire charge, I received a paper, too, about this wire charge.
[01:12:54.820 --> 01:12:58.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you recommend that you should take them on it or not?
[01:12:58.760 --> 01:13:01.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: I see no advantage to that whatsoever.
[01:13:01.860 --> 01:13:09.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've thought about this for quite some time, and I just... basically what you're saying is if something goes wrong with a wire inside your wall...
[01:13:09.640 --> 01:13:15.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, what could go wrong with a wire inside your wall, unless somebody, you know, throws something into the wall and...
[01:13:15.040 --> 01:13:18.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: In my case, it's just... it wasn't in the wall, but it was by accident.
[01:13:19.420 --> 01:13:23.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, in fact, that day I had some guests over, and we were on to use the telephone.
[01:13:23.800 --> 01:13:27.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: And what I did, since the wires have four wires, I just put...
[01:13:27.140 --> 01:13:30.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just switched to the terminal, and I put the other two, and it worked fantastic.
[01:13:30.920 --> 01:13:31.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[01:13:31.720 --> 01:13:32.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: It was no problem.
[01:13:32.800 --> 01:13:37.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: But about modems and computers, are you supposed to report the modem that you have on the line, or no?
[01:13:38.060 --> 01:13:43.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, they sometimes ask you to do that, but I don't recommend you telling them anything that's on your line.
[01:13:44.040 --> 01:13:49.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: For the reason being that they'll try to blame something that's their fault on your equipment.
[01:13:50.040 --> 01:13:53.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've had phone company repair people say, well, do you have a computer?
[01:13:53.180 --> 01:13:53.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's it, then.
[01:13:53.940 --> 01:13:56.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what's causing the hum on your lines, your computer.
[01:13:56.520 --> 01:13:58.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or, you know, a fax machine.
[01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:00.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, you have a fax machine anywhere in your house?
[01:14:00.860 --> 01:14:03.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, well, that's causing all the problems on your phone lines.
[01:14:03.880 --> 01:14:06.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, they'll always try to pick something like that.
[01:14:06.440 --> 01:14:08.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not to get involved in fixing anything.
[01:14:08.520 --> 01:14:09.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's the point, right?
[01:14:09.740 --> 01:14:10.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:14:10.160 --> 01:14:12.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they'll say... they'll even ask you if you have a phone.
[01:14:12.600 --> 01:14:13.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's the problem.
[01:14:13.780 --> 01:14:14.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:14:14.520 --> 01:14:16.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, sometimes it is the problem.
[01:14:16.460 --> 01:14:19.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have to, you know, figure it out.
[01:14:19.240 --> 01:14:20.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: First, before you call them.
[01:14:20.920 --> 01:14:26.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: And about this magazine, or this 26, how can I subscribe or call or whatever?
[01:14:26.760 --> 01:14:27.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I'll give you the address.
[01:14:27.780 --> 01:14:29.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: We don't give prices out, but I'll give you the address.
[01:14:29.440 --> 01:14:30.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll give you the phone number, too.
[01:14:30.660 --> 01:14:31.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's 2600.
[01:14:32.200 --> 01:14:32.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's at P.O.
[01:14:32.920 --> 01:14:34.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Box 752.
[01:14:34.660 --> 01:14:39.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's Middle Island, two words, New York, 11953.
[01:14:39.740 --> 01:14:44.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the phone number is 516-751-2600.
[01:14:44.600 --> 01:14:47.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, let me get the phone number, because that's easier.
[01:14:47.140 --> 01:14:49.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, what, 516?
[01:14:49.860 --> 01:14:52.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: 516-751-2600.
[01:14:52.500 --> 01:14:54.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that gives out pretty much all the information you need.
[01:14:54.800 --> 01:15:15.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Basically, it's run by hackers, but there's a lot of emphasis lately on consumer education, because there seems to be a lot more in the way of rip-offs to consumers from the phone companies, from the many phone companies, whether it's the 900 numbers or the sex lines or Touch-Tone fees,
[01:15:15.640 --> 01:15:16.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: rate increases.
[01:15:17.140 --> 01:15:20.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's just all kinds of things that people have to be aware of.
[01:15:20.720 --> 01:15:22.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you were talking about the Touch-Tone.
[01:15:22.460 --> 01:15:30.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, because I've called a couple of companies, and then the recording comes on, and they say, if you want to speak to Joe Blow, press this line and the other one.
[01:15:30.320 --> 01:15:33.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then, or stay on the line if you have Rory.
[01:15:33.960 --> 01:15:41.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: But in one instance or two instances, they just hung up on me because I don't have a Touch-Tone.
[01:15:41.060 --> 01:15:45.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's a lot of discrimination against people that don't have Touch-Tones these days, yes.
[01:15:45.320 --> 01:15:47.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: Most people have Touch-Tone, is that the point?
[01:15:47.700 --> 01:15:51.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, most people are certainly encouraged to get Touch-Tone if they don't have it already.
[01:15:52.040 --> 01:16:02.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's a lot of people that don't have Touch-Tones, and they should be serviced just as well as people that do have Touch-Tones, and the people who do have Touch-Tones shouldn't be charged for that luxury, because it's really not a luxury anymore.
[01:16:02.620 --> 01:16:04.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, and how much is a Touch-Tone on the service?
[01:16:04.780 --> 01:16:12.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they'll try to charge you... they'll charge you an installation fee on top of everything else, which I can't for the life of me figure out.
[01:16:12.360 --> 01:16:13.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're not installing a damn thing.
[01:16:13.960 --> 01:16:16.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I heard you said a couple of...
[01:16:17.000 --> 01:16:24.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they'll charge you about $2 a month per phone line for residences and about $5 a month for businesses.
[01:16:24.780 --> 01:16:33.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I just... I would like to see one big company in New York City say, hey, $5 a line for something that really doesn't exist.
[01:16:33.280 --> 01:16:36.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's a lot of money per year to waste.
[01:16:36.160 --> 01:16:39.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, if IBM or somebody suddenly realized how much they were paying...
[01:16:39.500 --> 01:16:40.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, they're part of the company.
[01:16:40.820 --> 01:16:43.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, I mean, how much is the installation supposed to be, you know?
[01:16:45.120 --> 01:16:46.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: It can range.
[01:16:46.580 --> 01:16:47.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it depends on what they have to do.
[01:16:48.080 --> 01:16:48.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: It can be...
[01:16:48.440 --> 01:16:49.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like $15 or anything.
[01:16:50.080 --> 01:16:51.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not that low.
[01:16:51.200 --> 01:16:52.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, I'm afraid it's not.
[01:16:53.020 --> 01:16:59.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then this last thing about charging you for not registering your phone number.
[01:17:00.200 --> 01:17:04.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: They charge you for not being listed, which is something that they've always done.
[01:17:04.240 --> 01:17:06.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I can't understand what the reason is for.
[01:17:06.320 --> 01:17:08.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because, again, it's just a simple yes-no question.
[01:17:08.180 --> 01:17:10.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's something that doesn't come out.
[01:17:10.560 --> 01:17:12.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's one of many things, folks.
[01:17:12.140 --> 01:17:12.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: One of many things.
[01:17:13.460 --> 01:17:16.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's going to pretty much do it for us here tonight.
[01:17:21.870 --> 01:17:24.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the time is just about two minutes to one o'clock.
[01:17:25.010 --> 01:17:31.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: We've had a lot of feedback, a lot of interest, and that's what's important here.
[01:17:31.570 --> 01:17:34.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's carry that interest along to the PSC on Monday.
[01:17:35.050 --> 01:17:35.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, I'm sorry.
[01:17:35.690 --> 01:17:42.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wednesday, May 2nd, 1215, Hearing Room A, 400 Broom Street on the 6th floor.
[01:17:42.090 --> 01:17:48.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or call up 212-488-4141, 800-342-3377.
[01:17:48.770 --> 01:17:49.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Become educated.
[01:17:50.410 --> 01:17:51.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Become aware.
[01:17:51.930 --> 01:17:53.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Express yourself.
[01:17:53.410 --> 01:17:54.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's real important, folks.
[01:17:54.750 --> 01:17:55.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[01:17:55.830 --> 01:18:00.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll be back in two weeks talking about computer hackers and the Secret Service.
[01:18:00.390 --> 01:18:01.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: See you then.