Off The Hook - 1990-05-31

[00:08.110 --> 00:10.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just run out of milk.
[00:10.690 --> 00:12.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's no paper in the loo.
[00:13.030 --> 00:15.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: And now it started raining.
[00:16.690 --> 00:18.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Lightly done to do.
[00:19.430 --> 00:21.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: And now we get to wonder.
[00:21.750 --> 00:23.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: How bad can it get?
[00:24.630 --> 00:26.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: A burger comes in through my door.
[00:27.610 --> 00:29.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Makes my TV set.
[00:29.970 --> 00:32.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I light up the cigarette.
[00:32.850 --> 00:34.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: Listen to some sounds.
[00:35.730 --> 00:37.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Set my house on fire.
[00:38.290 --> 00:39.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Burnt it to the ground.
[00:41.030 --> 00:42.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Couldn't get much worse.
[00:43.250 --> 00:45.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: But if they could, they would.
[00:45.390 --> 00:48.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: A middly bomb for the best, expect the worst.
[00:48.830 --> 00:50.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: I hopeless understood.
[00:50.730 --> 00:51.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: A middly bomb!
[00:57.190 --> 00:58.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now I've got a console.
[00:59.530 --> 01:01.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: My brother's on the run.
[01:02.570 --> 01:06.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: I might have a change of luck before my day is done.
[01:07.930 --> 01:09.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Couldn't get much worse.
[01:10.170 --> 01:12.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: But if they could, they would.
[01:12.030 --> 01:14.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: A middly bomb for the best, expect the worst.
[01:15.590 --> 01:17.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: I hope the sun is done.
[01:17.790 --> 01:18.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: A middly bomb!
[01:24.540 --> 01:26.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is the big of the top of the IG.
[01:26.960 --> 01:29.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is for audio that you can't say.
[01:29.620 --> 01:30.120]  This is
[01:38.860 --> 01:40.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: for most of the song now.
[01:40.500 --> 01:41.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is the black car.
[01:41.920 --> 01:42.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is the white car.
[01:43.240 --> 01:45.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is the big audio dynamite.
[01:45.320 --> 01:45.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh!
[01:51.620 --> 01:52.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: See sunset.
[01:59.090 --> 02:01.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, things almost couldn't get worse around here.
[02:01.950 --> 02:05.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: All the technical problems we had just within the space of 30 seconds.
[02:05.670 --> 02:06.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's incredible.
[02:06.330 --> 02:11.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you leave something in a certain position, something is bound to go wrong.
[02:11.750 --> 02:14.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, the music's from Don Letts and Big Audio Dynamite.
[02:14.610 --> 02:15.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: The song is much worse.
[02:16.530 --> 02:21.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: And look for him and his new band, Screaming Target.
[02:21.770 --> 02:24.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it'll be out next, well, only a couple of months, actually.
[02:24.890 --> 02:26.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: And this is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[02:26.750 --> 02:31.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: The program is The Fifth Corner here on WBAI Radio, where it's about 11.46.
[02:31.750 --> 02:34.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's right, the news ended early tonight and caught us all off guard.
[02:35.110 --> 02:38.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: But no matter, we have plenty to talk about tonight.
[02:38.290 --> 02:49.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: Tonight, talking about technical glitches and things getting all fouled up, well, that naturally leads us to telephones and to high technology in general, because that's what seems to be happening.
[02:49.990 --> 03:05.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we're going to be talking tonight mostly about independent payphone companies, those strange companies you see with those nasty-looking telephones on the street that sometimes take all your money, just like some of the nasty people on the street.
[03:05.170 --> 03:14.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, if you look at the New York Times a couple of days ago, you would have seen an article all about some of the nasty things that those phones do.
[03:15.030 --> 03:18.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I'll read a little bit from that, and then we'll talk directly about that.
[03:20.470 --> 03:34.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: Saying that charging for directory assistance hurts consumers, New York City's Commissioner of Consumer Affairs has petitioned the state agency that regulates telephone service to forbid independent pay telephones from leaving such charges.
[03:35.170 --> 03:47.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: The Commissioner, Mark Green, also has asked the Public Service Commission to block a request by New York Telephone to begin charging 50 cents for calls made from payphones to directory assistance.
[03:47.790 --> 03:51.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: We talked about this a few weeks ago, at quite some length, actually.
[03:51.970 --> 04:03.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: Mr. Green said, In my view, customers, businesses, families, and ordinary consumers, just about everybody that's listening, I believe, will all be harmed by charges for directory assistance.
[04:03.330 --> 04:16.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: The various companies that link independently-owned pay telephones to directory assistance charge from 40 cents to 75 cents for the service, which is now free from New York Telephone payphones.
[04:17.370 --> 04:29.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: Those companies are charged 48 cents per call by New York Telephone, and according to the petition, that's more than twice the 20 cents Mr. Green estimates each call cost to actually put through.
[04:30.290 --> 04:36.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: In an interview, the Commissioner said he did not think any company should charge or be charged for directory assistance.
[04:37.370 --> 04:49.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: Ideally, phone companies can cover any cost of directory assistance either by spreading it over their long-distance rates, or, if necessary, spreading it among all those who benefit from directory assistance by being listed in phone books.
[04:50.170 --> 04:56.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think that's fairer, and it avoids the problem of independent companies being discriminatorily burdened by New York Telephone.
[04:57.330 --> 05:04.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: But a spokesman for New York Telephone, Stephen Marcus, said it made more sense to charge companies as they use the service.
[05:04.470 --> 05:11.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: There's a cost for providing directory assistance, he said, and the alternative to charging the private companies is to charge our customers.
[05:12.450 --> 05:22.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: And as for Mr. Green's allegations of discrimination, Mr. Marcus said, there's nothing to prevent these companies from hiring operators and providing their own directory assistance.
[05:23.690 --> 05:29.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: There are few alternatives to directory assistance for New Yorkers who must use paid telephones, says Mr. Green.
[05:29.330 --> 05:33.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: There are many poor people for whom directory assistance calls are not a luxury but a necessity.
[05:33.870 --> 05:37.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: They often don't have residential phone service, and they call from the street.
[05:38.210 --> 05:45.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: This argument perhaps doesn't work in Omaha, but in New York City's environment, vandalism has made free phone directories unavailable at payphones.
[05:46.110 --> 05:47.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: When's the last time you saw one?
[05:47.870 --> 05:48.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: Since consumers...
[05:48.910 --> 05:49.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: I said that, by the way.
[05:50.010 --> 06:00.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: Since consumers lack the choice of looking up the number for free, and since getting the number usually leads to a paying call, New York Telephone and the independents should not charge for directory assistance.
[06:01.490 --> 06:04.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, we have Mark Green on the telephone with us.
[06:04.730 --> 06:05.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Commissioner Green, are you there?
[06:06.110 --> 06:06.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm here.
[06:06.670 --> 06:08.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: Gosh, I couldn't have said it better myself.
[06:08.090 --> 06:09.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, actually, you did say most of that already.
[06:10.170 --> 06:10.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: I know.
[06:10.590 --> 06:11.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thank you.
[06:11.390 --> 06:15.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: But I'd like to go a little bit more into detail on these things.
[06:15.370 --> 06:22.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: For one thing, you're pretty much scratching the surface of some of the awful things that those alternate payphones do.
[06:22.770 --> 06:33.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm not sure if you're aware of some of the horrible things such as charging $9.95 to access another long-distance company or asking for that amount.
[06:34.250 --> 06:44.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: But we are aware that what's especially terrible about that is the typical customer won't know that until they get their bill later.
[06:44.210 --> 06:47.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's obviously uncommon to expect that to happen.
[06:48.170 --> 06:54.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: Wall Street Journal recently did a survey of the long-distance costs of these independent companies, and they're phenomenal.
[06:56.130 --> 06:57.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, that's true.
[06:57.470 --> 07:05.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: A lot of people don't realize that because the payphones take their AT&T card cheerily, but they'll process it using another long-distance company.
[07:06.070 --> 07:14.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, some of the things you said about directory assistance are quite intriguing, and they bring back memories of the days when there was no charge for directory assistance.
[07:14.390 --> 07:16.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: In your opinion, what's changed?
[07:16.390 --> 07:18.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: Why are all the companies now charging such a huge amount?
[07:19.530 --> 07:22.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, trying to sneak in a rate increase through the back door.
[07:23.550 --> 07:24.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: They're allowed to try.
[07:25.390 --> 07:26.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're allowed to complain.
[07:27.210 --> 07:28.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: The Public Service Commission has to rule.
[07:29.430 --> 07:33.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's my judgment that phone companies have to make a profit.
[07:33.970 --> 07:36.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: Their regulated utilities are allowed a rate of return.
[07:37.190 --> 07:41.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: But we're not dealing with Cadillacs or Acuras.
[07:41.050 --> 07:45.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're dealing with a public utility because it's a public necessity for most people.
[07:45.630 --> 07:51.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: And it's my judgment that, you know, the phone companies can make a return when you make a paying call.
[07:52.170 --> 08:03.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the whole idea of 411 and what used to be called information, they fancied it up, now it's called directory assistance, is that is a prerequisite to making a paying call.
[08:04.010 --> 08:16.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, when you go to buy a car, the auto dealership doesn't charge you the cost of the door you walk through in order to get into the showroom to see the car and to make your $10,000 purchase.
[08:18.130 --> 08:21.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: Similarly, an information call is like the door you walk through.
[08:21.650 --> 08:26.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: You shouldn't be charged for it, which is a precondition to making the call.
[08:26.370 --> 08:27.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's when they should make the money.
[08:28.130 --> 08:29.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: You shouldn't be charged twice.
[08:39.230 --> 08:49.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: A few weeks ago, our staff, we have Department of Consumer Affairs at 80 Lafayette has 340 staff.
[08:49.350 --> 08:59.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: We've been strengthening our staff by adding some policy and advocate people, especially a man named Glenn Van Nostitz, who's the assistant commissioner for that position.
[09:00.150 --> 09:10.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: He, for 10 years, worked with probably about the best consumer advocate in Albany in the Assembly of State Senate, Franz Leichter.
[09:10.510 --> 09:19.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: And Glenn spotted this, and we sent some people out to research it to estimate the number of independent payphones on our streets.
[09:19.370 --> 09:23.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's about 15,000, a fourth of all the payphones.
[09:23.570 --> 09:29.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: And then to see where they are, see how many charged and what they charged.
[09:29.450 --> 09:32.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: Our best economic study yielded the following.
[09:32.370 --> 09:40.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: It costs New York Telephone about 20 cents a call to provide the directory assistance number.
[09:41.470 --> 09:43.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, now that's something I'm curious about.
[09:43.370 --> 09:46.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, do they charge themselves every time they call directory assistance?
[09:47.070 --> 09:48.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: What is that money used for?
[09:49.010 --> 09:51.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, it's the cost of doing business to them.
[09:51.610 --> 09:58.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, they factor that into their rates.
[09:58.470 --> 10:07.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: They factor salary, plant, equipment, overhead, their health plan for their workers, everything, into their rates.
[10:08.130 --> 10:09.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's just built in.
[10:09.110 --> 10:24.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: And we estimated that cost by adding up the cost of the employee, a CWA union worker, plus benefits, plus the plant equipment to keep them operating.
[10:24.310 --> 10:26.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's about $40,000 per person in all.
[10:28.510 --> 10:40.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: Then looked at the estimated $200,000 directory assistance, the contacts a year that each operator makes, which yielded $0.20 a call.
[10:40.330 --> 10:47.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: And so even on that basis, they're passing on not $0.20, but more than double, $0.48 to the independent company.
[10:48.130 --> 10:56.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: And if the independent company feels it has to charge $0.50 or more, while New York Telephone is charging nothing, it makes it harder for the independents to survive.
[10:57.470 --> 10:57.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[10:58.190 --> 11:02.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: So the fault here isn't all on the independents' shoulders, then.
[11:03.430 --> 11:04.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's New York Telephone as well.
[11:04.950 --> 11:05.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's fixed fault and credit.
[11:06.370 --> 11:09.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: I credit independent phone companies for existing.
[11:09.890 --> 11:13.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's better than the pre-divestiture days when there was only Ma Bell.
[11:14.090 --> 11:14.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: I like competition.
[11:14.890 --> 11:21.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: For example, in an area in West Harlem, we found 27 payphones on the streets.
[11:22.210 --> 11:23.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: All are independents.
[11:23.390 --> 11:23.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[11:23.730 --> 11:34.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: So the good news is a lot of these smaller independent companies are going and making money from where New York Telephone has refused to go, often poorer areas, areas of consumers of color.
[11:34.870 --> 11:35.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's good.
[11:36.010 --> 11:45.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: What's bad, though, is to charge $0.50 to $0.75, which a lot of people without means, a lot of elderly can't easily afford.
[11:45.730 --> 11:58.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: And a lot of disabled and elderly not only can't easily physically use a phone book in the alternative, so they don't have to pay money for 411, but we all live in New York.
[11:58.950 --> 12:00.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: We know there aren't payphone books.
[12:01.590 --> 12:02.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm sorry.
[12:02.330 --> 12:07.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: There aren't phone books on the street of payphones because of vandalism.
[12:07.750 --> 12:14.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: So we're sort of forced, if you don't have a residential phone accessible, to use this overpriced service.
[12:14.730 --> 12:16.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: Commissioner Green, let me just break in here a moment.
[12:16.890 --> 12:22.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is kind of ironic, I suppose, but I haven't heard a phone line with as much noise as this one since I was in Eastern Europe.
[12:23.710 --> 12:29.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I'm wondering if perhaps I should just call you back and get a better line so that our listeners can actually hear what you're saying.
[12:29.430 --> 12:30.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, if you'd like to do that, that's fine.
[12:30.510 --> 12:32.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm sure it's inadvertent.
[12:32.470 --> 12:35.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: There's no reason for our listeners to have to put up with that kind of noise.
[12:35.110 --> 12:41.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: So I'm going to go to this announcement and hopefully when we come back, you'll hear Commissioner Green in a nice, sparkly, clean line.
[12:41.690 --> 12:41.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[12:42.190 --> 12:42.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: To be continued.
[12:48.810 --> 12:49.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hi.
[12:49.550 --> 12:50.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is Rosemary Reed.
[12:50.910 --> 12:56.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm inviting you to come join us in celebrating our 30th anniversary on a Moonlight River cruise.
[12:56.610 --> 13:05.870]  [SPEAKER_00]: Dance to DJs Delphine Blue and Al Angeloro and live music with Professor Yolange and his African Contempo and Chico Alvarez and Nosotros.
[13:06.430 --> 13:12.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: Join us aboard the Floating Hospital at Pier 84 at 44th Street and 12th Avenue at 7.30 p.m.
[13:13.070 --> 13:16.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: for a cruise around Manhattan returning at 1 a.m.
[13:16.810 --> 13:19.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: Tickets for this benefit are $50 per person.
[13:19.790 --> 13:24.570]  [SPEAKER_00]: The proceeds from this event will go towards WBAI's Facilities Upgrade Campaign.
[13:24.850 --> 13:29.570]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's Friday, June 15th, the WBAI Moonlight River Cruise.
[13:30.190 --> 13:32.470]  [SPEAKER_00]: Celebrating 30 years in community radio.
[13:33.030 --> 13:37.830]  [SPEAKER_00]: For more information, call 212-279-0707.
[13:37.990 --> 13:45.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: And oh yes, you can help to defray the cost of this event by becoming a cruise underwriter and attend a private pre-cruise reception.
[13:45.970 --> 13:48.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: Call me, Rosemary Reed, for more information.
[13:58.710 --> 13:59.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, we're back.
[13:59.930 --> 14:03.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: And judging from the silence, I think we have a good phone line this time.
[14:03.290 --> 14:04.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: Commissioner Green, are you there?
[14:04.350 --> 14:04.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm here.
[14:05.050 --> 14:12.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, we were talking about the difficulties of alternative pay fund companies or alternative long-distance companies to exist.
[14:13.390 --> 14:16.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it is a credit that they are able to survive.
[14:17.370 --> 14:28.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is that the reason, though, why there seem to be so many unfair practices that they engage in, such as huge surcharges, blocking access to other long-distance companies?
[14:29.530 --> 14:31.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't have access to their books.
[14:31.510 --> 14:33.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: Only the Public Service Commission does.
[14:33.910 --> 14:37.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's my view that they're hurting themselves.
[14:37.690 --> 14:45.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: They're hurting especially poor, elderly, frail, disabled customers by charging for information calls.
[14:46.250 --> 14:47.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: They should want to...
[14:47.110 --> 14:52.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: Why do people call information but to get a phone number in order to make a paying call?
[14:52.170 --> 15:00.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's not like they're going to a luncheonette and ordering a Coke for free and then walking out before ordering the main course and paying anything.
[15:01.850 --> 15:02.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's...
[15:02.330 --> 15:04.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: Again, it's the precondition to the later sale.
[15:06.110 --> 15:06.690]  [SPEAKER_13]: Mm-hmm.
[15:06.810 --> 15:11.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: And in most cases, the phone call immediately follows the call to information.
[15:11.770 --> 15:12.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think so.
[15:12.510 --> 15:16.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, we did get a call from New York Telephone after we released our study
[15:22.170 --> 15:24.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: directory assistance and they would send us their cost data.
[15:25.070 --> 15:27.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: We welcomed it and we're waiting to see their information.
[15:31.470 --> 15:33.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I can understand their concern.
[15:33.630 --> 15:37.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: They're providing this service and they want to charge for it.
[15:38.090 --> 15:40.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: Again, though, I think they're cutting off their nose despite their face.
[15:41.490 --> 15:50.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: They said, well, gee, a lot of businesses use directory assistance to get information about other businesses to build up their mailing lists.
[15:50.870 --> 16:12.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: question, what rational business person would stand all day by a payphone in order to get directory assistance when they could obviously get access to a phone book, sit down, a cup of coffee, a nice club soda, and then do it leisurely and themselves rather than electronically.
[16:13.270 --> 16:14.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: That didn't...
[16:14.370 --> 16:17.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: I found that not persuasive, but they'll be calling back with more.
[16:18.030 --> 16:23.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it was only a few years ago that you didn't have to go to a payphone to make a free directory assistance call.
[16:23.710 --> 16:25.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: You could do it from anywhere, from your office, from your home.
[16:25.810 --> 16:28.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: Why is it now that it suddenly costs money?
[16:29.510 --> 16:53.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: I am guessing that 9x is having a lot of difficulty getting rate increases up front as a consequence to trying to in effect get a rate increase by small charges that won't develop to kind of use public opposition that has enabled, for example, Attorney General Bob Abrams,
[16:54.390 --> 17:03.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: the head of the Consumer Protection Board, Richie Castle, from successfully blocking what was, in the immediate past, a nearly $1 billion rate increase for 9x.
[17:03.370 --> 17:05.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: So they're trying to chip away at that.
[17:05.310 --> 17:07.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I think this is the exact...
[17:07.370 --> 17:08.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think it's a bad business judgment.
[17:09.470 --> 17:13.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think it hurts all consumers, especially those most vulnerable, as I indicated.
[17:13.370 --> 17:17.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: But I must tell you, New York Telephone is not just a bad guy in every way, nothing whatsoever.
[17:18.010 --> 17:21.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're all frustrated at how frequently payphones on the street are broken.
[17:23.290 --> 17:25.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's not the fault only of the phone company.
[17:25.630 --> 17:29.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: A lot of drug dealers use payphones and they overuse them.
[17:29.490 --> 17:34.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: Then there are a lot of phone pirates who just gouge them for the change in them.
[17:34.190 --> 17:35.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: They're professionals.
[17:35.010 --> 17:38.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: They're not just people who are desperate or destitute for a night.
[17:38.910 --> 17:47.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the phone company is desperately trying to find a technology that can withstand the weather and assault of the urban environment.
[17:49.490 --> 17:52.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: Why is it more of a problem now than it was, say, five years ago, though?
[17:54.370 --> 18:01.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, if part of their problem are drug dealers using and abusing the phones, there are more of them than five years ago, I would guess.
[18:02.390 --> 18:06.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm not at the police department, but I read what everyone reads.
[18:06.070 --> 18:23.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: and while I read that middle income and use by students of drugs is stable or declining, that the use by hardcore addicts of crack and cocaine is skyrocketing.
[18:23.670 --> 18:30.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: And a lot of these people don't have residential phones which can be traced and tapped by the police and they use street phones.
[18:32.070 --> 18:33.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: And we see the results.
[18:33.690 --> 18:38.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: Second, New York Telephone reported to me that phone pirates are increasing in number.
[18:39.770 --> 18:41.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Perhaps it's also related to drugs.
[18:41.810 --> 18:46.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: They're desperate for the money and the phones are one public place which contains money.
[18:47.010 --> 18:48.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hard to get to, but these people are desperate.
[18:49.930 --> 18:58.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: You see, I agree that there is a problem there, but generally you can tell when somebody has destroyed a payphone to get the money out of it.
[18:58.550 --> 19:07.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: In most cases where I find a non-working payphone, it seems to be a phone that just doesn't give you a dial tone for some reason and it doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the exterior of the phone.
[19:07.650 --> 19:10.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that leads me to believe that it's just not being maintained.
[19:10.850 --> 19:19.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I was also told by a couple of different repairmen that fixing payphones, especially after the strike, is not a priority, not a high priority.
[19:20.130 --> 19:24.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, New York Telephone has also said that they fell behind during the strike.
[19:25.030 --> 19:37.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: Obviously, it was a strike that communication workers felt fervently they had to engage in to protect their health benefits won over decades of unionization.
[19:37.090 --> 19:39.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: They won the strike at great cost to themselves.
[19:40.270 --> 19:43.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: Among the results is a backup in repair and installation.
[19:44.470 --> 19:47.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: That excuse has to fade over time, obviously.
[19:48.810 --> 19:54.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: Soon, if not weeks, months, but soon, they have to have been caught up.
[19:54.850 --> 19:56.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: I accept your point.
[19:56.070 --> 19:59.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: The problem may not be really vandalization on the street but mismanagement at the company.
[20:00.210 --> 20:03.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: That is, the dial tone doesn't come on.
[20:03.230 --> 20:04.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: You can't blame a vandal for that.
[20:04.990 --> 20:05.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[20:05.490 --> 20:13.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I have to wonder, too, that strike went on for such a long time, and during that time, NYNEX was not paying the striking workers.
[20:13.450 --> 20:14.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: Where did all that money go?
[20:15.590 --> 20:18.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is it possible they made a profit over the strike?
[20:20.010 --> 20:21.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: That is possible.
[20:21.510 --> 20:27.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: Again, I don't have access to their books, and you should call Jan Pierce, Vice President of Region 1 CWA.
[20:27.250 --> 20:29.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm sure he knows all about that.
[20:29.510 --> 20:32.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm sorry, I'm questioning you as if you work for the phone company.
[20:32.430 --> 20:33.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: I must not do that.
[20:34.150 --> 20:43.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: Obviously, it was more hurtful to working union members who lived on their salary, as opposed to the phone company, who in the short term may have profited.
[20:43.770 --> 21:01.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're talking to New York City Commissioner of Consumer Affairs, Mark Green, and I'd like to ask you, are you aware during the latest rate increase hearings, one of the things that New York Telephone is asking for in addition to charging 50 cents for directory assistance from payphones,
[21:01.370 --> 21:08.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: they also want to charge 50 cents for every call to the operator that does not result in a call being placed.
[21:08.270 --> 21:16.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: In other words, if you call the operator and just say something, you know, ask a question of some sort and you don't place a call, they're going to charge you 50 cents.
[21:16.290 --> 21:16.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: Were you aware of that?
[21:17.070 --> 21:20.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Question like, what's the time, what's the weather, what's your home phone number?
[21:20.590 --> 21:20.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: Anything.
[21:21.170 --> 21:28.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, I call the operator a lot for various things to find out maybe the location of a particular exchange or when discount rates start.
[21:29.010 --> 21:36.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: And from my understanding of reading the little hello book that I got, that's going to cost 50 cents every time I don't make a call.
[21:36.190 --> 21:39.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know how they're going to go around billing that, but that strikes me
[21:42.830 --> 21:44.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: I haven't seen anything about that.
[21:44.370 --> 21:50.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: I haven't seen it either publicized, discussed, or complained about to the public service commission.
[21:51.090 --> 22:02.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: I can understand the phone company imposing a charge if people frequently call it for information that the phone company is not primarily responsible for, the time, for example.
[22:02.630 --> 22:08.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: People in our society should be able to figure out the time without calling a private company.
[22:09.050 --> 22:22.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: However, for you to call and get information information about the cost of service, of installation, there's a lot of information they should provide about their service, even if you don't follow through and make a phone call.
[22:23.530 --> 22:32.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: Again, the analogy is, you go into a restaurant, you have to look at the menu, you look at it, you decide, too expensive for me.
[22:32.390 --> 22:36.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: They shouldn't charge you for the glance at the menu, even though it took some staff time.
[22:37.930 --> 22:38.690]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good analogy.
[22:38.910 --> 22:39.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: I like that one.
[22:41.150 --> 22:42.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: Not bad for midnight, right?
[22:42.410 --> 22:43.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, not bad at all.
[22:44.010 --> 22:50.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: Another thing that has always been a sticking point with me is the fact that the phone company charges for Touch-Tones.
[22:50.650 --> 22:57.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that's something that I'm not sure if you're aware of this, the fact that there really isn't a service associated with that.
[22:58.030 --> 22:59.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: What do you mean by that?
[22:59.070 --> 23:03.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: You mean you get no additional service other than the fact that instead of rotary, it's Touch-Tones?
[23:03.530 --> 23:06.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you provide the phone, you provide the tones.
[23:06.370 --> 23:12.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: The only thing that you paying the fee accomplishes is them not telling the computer to ignore your tones.
[23:12.910 --> 23:21.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: In other words, every single piece of switching equipment in the phone company, the modern equipment, is equipped to handle Touch-Tones.
[23:21.710 --> 23:22.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: In any event.
[23:22.550 --> 23:23.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: In any event.
[23:23.470 --> 23:29.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: The only systems that couldn't do that were the really, really primitive systems of the early 60s.
[23:29.190 --> 23:38.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: I must tell you an anecdote that's not necessarily related to phone charges, but it's related to Touch-Tone and rotary.
[23:38.610 --> 23:43.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: My six-year-old son visited my new office at the Department of Consumer Affairs.
[23:43.810 --> 23:46.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's my new office, but it's 25 years old.
[23:46.630 --> 23:47.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: Very old, decrepit building.
[23:48.390 --> 23:50.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: And all our phones are rotary.
[23:51.330 --> 23:56.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: And he looked at these phones and he said, Daddy, what's that machine?
[23:58.170 --> 24:00.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: He'd never seen a rotary phone.
[24:01.290 --> 24:02.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: We have Touch-Tone phones.
[24:04.710 --> 24:06.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you think he would know how to dial one?
[24:06.470 --> 24:07.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: He had no idea.
[24:07.450 --> 24:08.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: I had to explain it.
[24:08.130 --> 24:11.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: You got your finger, you put your finger in it, you go in a circle.
[24:13.030 --> 24:24.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, you know, I heard somebody commenting on something like that once before where someone didn't know how to use a rotary phone and they were just wondering if there was an emergency, how would they, what would they do, you know, how would they use the phone?
[24:24.650 --> 24:25.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: Open up the window and scream.
[24:26.050 --> 24:26.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: Probably.
[24:27.210 --> 24:34.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, let me say that there's a New York City office called Entertel, headed by a new commissioner, BillSFquadron.
[24:36.090 --> 24:45.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: And they are full-time advocates for the city's consumers in matters of energy and telephone, hence Entertel.
[24:47.130 --> 24:50.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: And Commissioner Squadron is brand new to the job.
[24:50.350 --> 25:00.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: And they will be frequently intervening along with Attorney General Bob Abrams, Consumer Protection Board State Chief, Richie Kessel, at the Public Service Commission.
[25:01.550 --> 25:12.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: More frequently and more expertly than our Department of Consumer Affairs, this came to our attention and since it was pending at the Public Service Commission, we wanted to speak and did speak out on it.
[25:12.950 --> 25:13.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh-huh.
[25:14.050 --> 25:22.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: What can people do who are interested in getting more information or contributing information of their own to this particular case?
[25:24.370 --> 25:25.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, two things.
[25:25.990 --> 25:30.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: Either they can write us at the Department of Consumer Affairs.
[25:31.650 --> 25:37.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: The staff person who's working on it with me is a man named Michael Alcamo, A-L-C-A-M-O.
[25:37.910 --> 25:40.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're at 80 Lafayette Street.
[25:43.350 --> 25:49.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: Or, I don't know the phone number or address of Entertel, but it's Commissioner BillSFquadron.
[25:49.490 --> 25:50.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: How do you spell that?
[25:51.050 --> 25:54.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: S-Q-U-A-D-R-O-N.
[25:55.130 --> 25:56.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: I meant Entertel.
[25:56.390 --> 25:56.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh!
[25:57.990 --> 25:59.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: S-Q-U...
[25:59.070 --> 25:59.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, I'm sorry.
[26:00.290 --> 26:05.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: E-N-T-E-R-T-E-L, I believe, but I don't work there.
[26:05.610 --> 26:05.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[26:08.010 --> 26:08.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: And...
[26:08.490 --> 26:10.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: But you need the spelling in order to look it up.
[26:10.790 --> 26:28.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: And if you have any information or insights into the costs and the pricing of the return to independent phone companies or what New York Telephone should appropriately be charging, if anything, to them, write Entertel.
[26:29.230 --> 26:31.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: And they'll be continuing on this proceeding.
[26:33.010 --> 26:33.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[26:33.470 --> 26:34.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sounds good.
[26:34.070 --> 26:43.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, you also had a proposal that they take the charges for directory assistance and spread them over the long-distance rates, I believe?
[26:43.950 --> 26:55.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I'll tell you, when consumers call information, overwhelming percentage at the time, they then get a number and make...
[26:55.830 --> 26:58.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: and pay a quarter for the call.
[26:58.850 --> 27:08.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: The phone company makes money from the sequence of three million directory assistance calls being made a year, followed by a paying call.
[27:08.350 --> 27:09.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: They make money.
[27:09.370 --> 27:12.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: So when the phone company says, gee, how can we pay this cost?
[27:12.270 --> 27:14.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: The answer is, be patient.
[27:14.490 --> 27:22.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: Five seconds later, you'll get a quarter, which already is more than you said the cost of the directory assistance service is.
[27:23.190 --> 27:26.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: So the answer is, I don't think they have to charge anything.
[27:26.430 --> 27:28.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: Should they make an argument, they should charge something.
[27:31.150 --> 27:40.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: At worst, spread the cost over all of us who benefit from information assistance since we are in the phone book.
[27:42.390 --> 27:46.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: Someone may call to get my phone number, they get the phone number, and I'm benefited.
[27:46.610 --> 27:47.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you know, it's interesting.
[27:47.530 --> 27:50.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: The only people that get charged are the people who aren't in the phone book.
[27:50.610 --> 27:54.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: You get charged for being unlisted, which is something I've never been able to understand.
[27:54.430 --> 27:54.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, I see.
[27:54.790 --> 27:57.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: You have to pay money in order not to be in it.
[27:57.170 --> 27:57.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: Exactly.
[27:57.770 --> 27:58.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's interesting.
[27:58.330 --> 28:00.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's one of those other things that they do.
[28:01.230 --> 28:03.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: What about long-distance information?
[28:03.430 --> 28:05.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you think we can apply the same rules there?
[28:05.690 --> 28:06.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because that used to be free, too.
[28:07.090 --> 28:09.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: And now it costs 60 cents to call long-distance information.
[28:10.190 --> 28:18.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: And for me, anyway, it keeps me from making phone calls because I don't want to spend 60 cents just to find out a number or 60 cents to find out that there isn't a number.
[28:18.950 --> 28:21.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: Interesting because rates have fallen...
[28:21.610 --> 28:28.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Long-distance rates, generally, have fallen substantially in real terms since 1984, since AT&T was broken up.
[28:28.330 --> 28:32.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: We obviously have MCI Sprint competing with AT&T.
[28:33.330 --> 28:48.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I can see it's ironic to make a 60-cent charge for long-distance information and then a long-distance call that's not much more expensive than that.
[28:48.590 --> 28:52.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, in fact, long-distance calls can be cheaper than local calls in many cases.
[28:53.210 --> 29:06.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: Also, it's unfair because while locally it is conceivable you can get a payphone in the alternative to this directory assistance call, especially if you're a residential consumer.
[29:07.130 --> 29:12.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: Obviously, I'm sitting in my home here on the east side of Manhattan and I have a Manhattan phone book here.
[29:13.550 --> 29:16.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: Conceivably, I could have a Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx, etc.
[29:17.210 --> 29:17.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: phone book.
[29:17.850 --> 29:21.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's hard to believe that I'd have a Los Angeles phone book, a Chicago phone book.
[29:21.490 --> 29:28.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, it strikes me as unfair to charge when the consumer has no real alternative and obviously you're going to be making that long-distance call.
[29:29.050 --> 29:32.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: The only exception, though, is New York Telephone may not make the profit.
[29:33.710 --> 29:35.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: AT&T long-distance lines may make it.
[29:35.910 --> 29:36.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: Sprint may make it.
[29:37.290 --> 29:41.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: And so, there may be some kind of division of the cost in that particular instance.
[29:41.430 --> 29:48.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: Plus, also, well, you know, again, that could work out if they divided it evenly and based it upon
[29:51.490 --> 29:52.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: these companies.
[29:53.510 --> 29:57.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: But it's interesting when you say it's not likely you would have a Los Angeles phone book.
[29:57.950 --> 30:03.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: And even if you wanted one, they'd charge you a pretty penny for getting one because they're only free in the local area.
[30:03.730 --> 30:05.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're not free in other states, for instance.
[30:06.110 --> 30:09.690]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, that's something else that a lot of people aren't aware of.
[30:10.370 --> 30:20.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, listen, if people want to either find out more or contribute more, I do encourage them either to write to the Department of Consumer Affairs or enter TEL.
[30:20.690 --> 30:26.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: and Commissioner's Squadron because this is a long-distance hall, as it were.
[30:27.270 --> 30:29.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I'm glad to have contributed whatever I could.
[30:29.850 --> 30:33.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, well, thanks very much for joining us tonight and keep up the fight.
[30:33.770 --> 30:37.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hopefully, we'll see some more articles in the paper about this.
[30:37.610 --> 30:44.690]  [SPEAKER_13]: It would be nice to get back to the days where you can pick up your phone and be assured of what you're going to get on the other end and not get a surprise once a month.
[30:45.010 --> 30:45.690]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's the goal.
[30:45.910 --> 30:46.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, thanks very much.
[30:46.850 --> 30:47.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thank you for having me.
[30:47.390 --> 30:47.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, good night.
[30:48.110 --> 30:48.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good night.
[30:48.410 --> 30:55.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we'll be taking your phone calls at 212-279-3400 any second now.
[30:56.170 --> 31:01.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: So run to your phones, make your calls, and tell us what you think about free information.
[31:01.370 --> 31:03.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: Should directory assistance be free?
[31:03.330 --> 31:05.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: Should other kinds of phone calls be free?
[31:05.890 --> 31:07.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, what's fair?
[31:07.190 --> 31:08.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: What is not fair?
[31:08.230 --> 31:12.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: Give us a call call 212-279-3400.
[31:13.230 --> 31:42.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: She's bugging me again Run to use the phone Find and rent a hip man From the twilight zone It was good in the beginning But wilds make come a try Found me a solution Inadventure
[31:49.850 --> 32:11.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: call away Cheaper than some Do your job to pay So if you've got a problem Pick up the telephone For the games and glory cowboys From the twilight zone At the Connelly Club, there's no extra force to tease.
[32:11.770 --> 32:15.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're the gang that couldn't shoot straight, but we ain't to please.
[32:15.850 --> 32:17.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: B.F.S.
[32:17.190 --> 32:18.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: and Drifters.
[32:19.870 --> 32:22.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: Shellshock from the head.
[32:23.470 --> 32:29.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: At the Connelly Club, Doc Savage pays the bill.
[32:30.730 --> 32:53.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, soldiers are fortunate But we're not mental giants But mister, I must tell you Neither ought I kind So, if you've got a problem, nick up the telephone For the guns and motor cowboys from the twilights, oh!
[32:53.850 --> 32:57.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: At the corner and above, there's no extra spot to tease.
[32:58.030 --> 33:01.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're the gang that couldn't shoot straight, but the A's is pleased.
[33:02.110 --> 33:04.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: To a job in Georgia.
[33:05.690 --> 33:07.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: Money in advance.
[33:09.910 --> 33:12.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: Fingers through the poles.
[33:13.270 --> 33:15.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: And chilling nonchalance.
[33:16.810 --> 33:20.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've seen some civil war now.
[33:20.150 --> 33:24.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: For the cash we took their lives.
[33:25.110 --> 33:28.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: Back here on the homestand.
[33:28.910 --> 33:31.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Rich on people's wives.
[33:32.790 --> 33:35.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: Grady's bounty hunter.
[33:36.650 --> 33:39.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Comical ineptitude.
[33:40.790 --> 33:43.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: Modern cowboy cowdress.
[33:44.370 --> 33:46.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: Guns and glory dudes.
[33:47.690 --> 33:51.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, if you've got a problem, make up the telephone.
[33:51.930 --> 33:55.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: For the beans and glory cowboys and the twilight zone.
[33:55.770 --> 33:59.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: At the continental club, there's no extra spot to tease.
[33:59.650 --> 34:02.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're the gang that couldn't shoot straight, but the A's is pleased.
[34:12.910 --> 34:13.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: May I help you?
[34:15.310 --> 34:16.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: May I help you?
[34:16.430 --> 34:17.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, this is the operator?
[34:17.890 --> 34:18.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[34:18.570 --> 34:20.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Jimmy Lafayette 06.
[34:20.330 --> 34:22.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Person to person with Mr. Carson King.
[34:22.410 --> 34:23.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's King with a K.
[34:23.310 --> 34:24.650]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, I got it.
[34:25.130 --> 34:25.990]  [SPEAKER_20]: Have a good evening.
[34:26.230 --> 34:26.690]  [SPEAKER_20]: Thank you.
[34:26.870 --> 34:27.290]  [SPEAKER_20]: Long number.
[34:35.810 --> 34:36.590]  [SPEAKER_19]: Long number.
[34:36.810 --> 34:37.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Person King, please.
[34:37.970 --> 34:38.670]  [SPEAKER_19]: One different floor.
[34:38.930 --> 34:39.770]  [SPEAKER_19]: Is this Mr. King?
[34:40.250 --> 34:41.690]  [SPEAKER_19]: Is this Mr. Carson King?
[34:41.830 --> 34:42.990]  [SPEAKER_19]: I don't know who this is.
[34:43.270 --> 34:44.570]  [SPEAKER_19]: You dirty little shithead.
[34:44.670 --> 34:47.190]  [SPEAKER_19]: I paid you five C's of my heart and care.
[34:47.350 --> 34:47.350]  It's
[34:51.000 --> 34:52.480]  my wife, and then you...
[34:52.480 --> 34:53.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: I gotta check the file.
[34:54.040 --> 34:54.760]  [SPEAKER_19]: Check the file.
[34:54.860 --> 34:55.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, target address.
[34:57.540 --> 34:58.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: 4275 South Brooklyn Avenue.
[34:59.100 --> 35:00.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Apartment 42C.
[35:02.600 --> 35:03.000]  4275...
[35:03.580 --> 35:04.420]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, okay.
[35:04.720 --> 35:05.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: I got it.
[35:06.780 --> 35:07.640]  [SPEAKER_19]: Alright, let's see.
[35:07.820 --> 35:08.240]  [SPEAKER_19]: What do you have?
[35:10.000 --> 35:10.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, let's see.
[35:11.080 --> 35:13.640]  [SPEAKER_19]: Target was attractive Caucasian woman early 30s.
[35:13.800 --> 35:15.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: Named Martha...
[35:15.060 --> 35:16.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but you got the wrong girl!
[35:17.040 --> 35:18.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
[35:18.140 --> 35:19.040]  [SPEAKER_19]: Payment was made.
[35:19.320 --> 35:20.820]  [SPEAKER_19]: Easy paid credit plan.
[35:21.040 --> 35:21.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's uh...
[35:21.520 --> 35:22.680]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[35:22.800 --> 35:23.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: Never mind, alright.
[35:23.620 --> 35:23.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: Look!
[35:24.020 --> 35:24.760]  [SPEAKER_19]: And we have...
[35:24.760 --> 35:26.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: We have a completion...
[35:26.980 --> 35:28.780]  [SPEAKER_19]: Report on the file.
[35:29.020 --> 35:29.900]  [SPEAKER_19]: Target within...
[35:29.900 --> 35:31.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: 715 PM...
[35:32.260 --> 35:32.780]  [SPEAKER_19]: 42...
[35:32.780 --> 35:34.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: 75 South Brooklyn.
[35:35.040 --> 35:36.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: Apartment 42B.
[35:36.220 --> 35:37.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not P, you fool!
[35:46.090 --> 35:49.050]  [SPEAKER_19]: Look at man, it says 42B on the report.
[35:49.270 --> 35:50.090]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's not our fault.
[35:50.650 --> 35:51.550]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's not your fault.
[35:51.830 --> 35:53.030]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, I ain't paying, huh?
[35:53.130 --> 35:54.210]  [SPEAKER_19]: So go ahead and sue me.
[35:55.890 --> 35:57.210]  [SPEAKER_19]: You're not gonna pay, huh?
[35:57.430 --> 35:58.110]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm not paying.
[35:58.470 --> 36:00.050]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, uh...
[36:01.530 --> 36:01.850]  [SPEAKER_19]: 42C.
[36:02.710 --> 36:03.030]  [SPEAKER_19]: 42C.
[36:03.150 --> 36:03.730]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, that's it.
[36:03.830 --> 36:04.350]  [SPEAKER_19]: You got it.
[36:04.510 --> 36:04.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well.
[36:05.610 --> 36:06.290]  [SPEAKER_19]: We'll be close.
[36:07.710 --> 36:08.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, wait a minute, operate it!
[36:08.970 --> 36:10.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, come on now, operate it!
[36:15.380 --> 36:16.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, it never fails to crack me up.
[36:17.000 --> 36:18.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's, uh, Rent a Hitman.
[36:18.320 --> 36:21.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm sorry, Dial a Hitman from Big Audio Dynamite off their second album.
[36:22.480 --> 36:29.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, uh, one of life's little ironies here, uh, I'm about to show you as we prepare to take some calls here.
[36:29.880 --> 36:32.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, we're talking about directory assistance costing money.
[36:34.180 --> 36:34.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh.
[36:37.040 --> 36:38.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: You have a telephone, Ms. Donaldson, may I help you?
[36:39.060 --> 36:41.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, hi, I need overseas information, please.
[36:41.760 --> 36:42.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hold on.
[36:47.670 --> 36:50.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: One moment for an operator who can assist you.
[36:50.930 --> 36:51.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thank you.
[37:08.150 --> 37:09.650]  [SPEAKER_20]: AT&T, how can I help you?
[37:09.650 --> 37:13.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hi, I need overseas information, please, from Manila in the Philippines.
[37:14.430 --> 37:15.130]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hold on, please.
[37:15.410 --> 37:15.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thank you.
[37:36.140 --> 37:36.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello, operator?
[37:37.260 --> 37:37.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[37:37.780 --> 37:39.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: Can you tell me how much will this cost to get information?
[37:40.940 --> 37:42.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: It doesn't cost anything for information.
[37:43.040 --> 37:43.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: It costs you for the number.
[37:44.640 --> 37:46.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, so information is free overseas.
[37:47.760 --> 37:48.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: As far as I know.
[37:49.800 --> 37:51.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you're the operator, so you would know.
[37:52.500 --> 37:52.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[37:52.840 --> 37:55.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, but just everything in here goes on a tape.
[37:55.260 --> 37:56.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: And when it read off...
[37:56.960 --> 37:57.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[37:57.620 --> 38:00.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know, but I'm not sure you do, you don't pay.
[38:00.880 --> 38:03.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: But to the best of your knowledge, there's no charge for this.
[38:03.380 --> 38:03.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[38:03.420 --> 38:04.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, that's good enough for me.
[38:05.280 --> 38:07.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Are you connecting me to information over there?
[38:08.100 --> 38:09.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good, now you asked me for two different things.
[38:09.920 --> 38:11.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: You asked me for rates and information.
[38:11.660 --> 38:12.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: Information.
[38:12.500 --> 38:12.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[38:13.300 --> 38:14.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, information.
[38:14.420 --> 38:16.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, the rates come up in front of me.
[38:16.940 --> 38:18.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: Now, what rate do you want?
[38:18.200 --> 38:20.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: Do you want the 5 to 2 a.m.
[38:20.180 --> 38:20.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: rate?
[38:20.560 --> 38:22.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, no, I just wanted to get information over there.
[38:22.860 --> 38:23.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, hold on then.
[38:23.740 --> 38:24.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: Directory assistance, thanks.
[38:24.540 --> 38:25.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: How do you spell the name of that city?
[38:26.240 --> 38:29.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, Manila, M-A-N-I-L-A.
[38:29.400 --> 38:30.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: M-A-N.
[38:30.480 --> 38:31.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: I-L-A.
[38:33.200 --> 38:33.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: Just a moment.
[38:34.280 --> 38:34.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thank you.
[38:36.280 --> 38:37.240]  [SPEAKER_20]: Just a moment.
[38:51.070 --> 38:52.830]  [SPEAKER_20]: The computer has to make everything.
[38:53.670 --> 38:54.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm sorry?
[38:54.850 --> 38:56.550]  [SPEAKER_20]: The computer has to make everything.
[38:56.870 --> 38:58.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, well, the computers are running the world, I know.
[38:59.670 --> 39:01.210]  [SPEAKER_20]: They're messing up, you know what I mean.
[39:04.610 --> 39:07.370]  [SPEAKER_20]: Because one thing, they only put out what you put in, and that's true.
[39:07.850 --> 39:08.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, that's true.
[39:08.770 --> 39:10.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're only as good as the people that program them.
[39:10.470 --> 39:10.730]  [SPEAKER_20]: Right.
[39:12.370 --> 39:13.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: Unfortunately, we never see those people.
[39:14.890 --> 39:17.870]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, you know, any time something happens, they say computer.
[39:18.630 --> 39:18.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[39:18.930 --> 39:21.030]  [SPEAKER_20]: As soon as you get advice, they say, oh, computer.
[39:21.970 --> 39:22.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's a scapegoat.
[39:23.110 --> 39:26.230]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're not supposed to know that they program it.
[39:26.350 --> 39:28.210]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's only putting out what they put into it.
[39:28.590 --> 39:28.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[39:30.650 --> 39:31.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: Garbage in, garbage out.
[39:34.710 --> 39:37.870]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, let me put this in and see what's going to come out now.
[39:38.010 --> 39:38.530]  [SPEAKER_20]: Just a moment.
[39:38.630 --> 39:38.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[40:01.080 --> 40:05.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm going to give you an IOC because everything I put in the computer is rejecting it.
[40:05.400 --> 40:05.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, dear.
[40:05.940 --> 40:06.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hold on.
[40:06.600 --> 40:07.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[40:11.180 --> 40:16.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's either the International Olympic Committee or the International Operators or something like that.
[40:16.840 --> 40:18.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: We are the International Operators.
[40:18.320 --> 40:18.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: Ah, okay.
[40:18.920 --> 40:19.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: Not the International.
[40:20.100 --> 40:22.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: We are, we connect you to some of the International.
[40:22.980 --> 40:23.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: We are in New York.
[40:24.160 --> 40:24.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[40:24.820 --> 40:25.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: So you got to connect me to what?
[40:25.860 --> 40:26.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Pittsburgh?
[40:26.640 --> 40:27.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[40:27.160 --> 40:28.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, you know all about it.
[40:28.420 --> 40:29.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, I've done this before.
[40:29.940 --> 40:30.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh.
[40:33.200 --> 40:33.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[40:39.980 --> 40:40.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: AT&T, I'm a C.
[40:41.060 --> 40:46.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes, operator calling from 212-279-348.
[40:46.460 --> 40:46.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: Thanks.
[40:47.140 --> 40:47.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hello?
[40:47.780 --> 40:48.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, hi.
[40:48.840 --> 40:51.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: I need information in Manila, the Philippines, please.
[41:10.870 --> 41:14.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Your international call cannot be completed as...
[41:26.350 --> 41:26.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Assistant.
[41:27.770 --> 41:28.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello?
[41:28.210 --> 41:29.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hi, yes, directory assistance.
[41:29.170 --> 41:30.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is United States, Pittsburgh.
[41:30.750 --> 41:33.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: I have a customer on the line needing your assistance.
[41:33.230 --> 41:34.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: Can you please help him?
[41:34.030 --> 41:35.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: Go ahead, sir.
[41:35.310 --> 41:36.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, go ahead, please.
[41:36.530 --> 41:37.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, yes, hi.
[41:37.510 --> 41:43.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: I need the telephone number in Manila for the Hilton Hotel, the main Hilton Hotel there.
[41:44.110 --> 41:46.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sir, that is under Manila Pavilion.
[41:47.190 --> 41:47.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[41:48.190 --> 41:51.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Manila Hilton is now under Manila Pavilion, sir.
[41:51.790 --> 41:52.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, fine.
[41:52.610 --> 41:56.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: The number is 573711.
[41:57.530 --> 41:58.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[41:58.250 --> 42:00.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: Does that include all the country codes and city codes?
[42:00.130 --> 42:01.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'll take care of that, sir.
[42:01.490 --> 42:02.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, I just want to...
[42:02.170 --> 42:02.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you very much, operator.
[42:02.890 --> 42:03.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: I appreciate it.
[42:03.970 --> 42:04.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Bye, sir.
[42:04.230 --> 42:04.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh, bye-bye.
[42:05.050 --> 42:05.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: Bye.
[42:05.390 --> 42:05.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello, sir?
[42:06.090 --> 42:06.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[42:08.170 --> 42:08.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, can you hear me?
[42:08.990 --> 42:09.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can, yeah.
[42:09.490 --> 42:13.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to give you the code so you can dial it yourself, but I'll connect you if you don't mind.
[42:13.250 --> 42:14.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I'm not making the call right now.
[42:14.690 --> 42:15.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, you're not?
[42:15.430 --> 42:15.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[42:15.650 --> 42:16.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: I just wanted to get the number.
[42:19.650 --> 42:20.210]  It's, uh...
[42:20.210 --> 42:21.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, sir, you dial 011.
[42:22.190 --> 42:22.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[42:22.930 --> 42:23.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: 63.
[42:23.610 --> 42:23.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[42:24.090 --> 42:24.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Then 2.
[42:25.910 --> 42:27.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: And then the number she gave me.
[42:27.090 --> 42:27.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: Number right, 573711.
[42:29.430 --> 42:30.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, thanks very much for your help.
[42:30.690 --> 42:31.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: No problem.
[42:31.230 --> 42:31.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: Bye-bye.
[42:31.490 --> 42:31.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bye-bye.
[42:32.250 --> 42:33.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, how many operators were there?
[42:34.630 --> 42:35.070]  Uh...
[42:35.070 --> 42:35.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: Did everybody keep count?
[42:36.190 --> 42:36.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: I kept count.
[42:37.210 --> 42:38.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: First, there was a New York telephone operator.
[42:39.050 --> 42:40.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: She connected us to AT&T.
[42:40.610 --> 42:42.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: We had that nice long chat about computers with her.
[42:42.950 --> 42:49.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: She connected me over to Pittsburgh, the IOC, International Olympic Operator, and then he connected me to the operator in the Philippines.
[42:49.290 --> 42:50.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: Four operators there.
[42:50.730 --> 42:55.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: Four operators, and it didn't cost anything, and all the phone companies are still in one piece.
[42:55.950 --> 43:00.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, I don't think I really robbed the bank too much by getting this information.
[43:00.430 --> 43:05.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I may very well call that hotel someday.
[43:05.510 --> 43:07.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, I did write down the number, so I have it here.
[43:08.090 --> 43:08.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's a bit of information.
[43:08.950 --> 43:11.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: And in fact, the whole city of New York now has that information.
[43:11.850 --> 43:14.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: So I've actually provided a service of sorts.
[43:15.670 --> 43:17.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: So that tells you a thing or two.
[43:17.890 --> 43:32.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: That tells you kind of the hypocrisy of it all, because sometimes they charge you outrageous amounts of money, and sometimes they charge you nothing, 50 cents, to call information in New York City to get a local number that will cost you a quarter to call.
[43:33.450 --> 43:38.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: Nothing to call international information to get a number that will cost you a fortune to call.
[43:40.010 --> 43:41.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's interesting, isn't it?
[43:41.430 --> 43:44.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, our number is 279-3400.
[43:44.910 --> 43:47.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's time now to take your calls.
[43:47.630 --> 43:48.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good morning.
[43:49.190 --> 43:49.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello.
[43:50.090 --> 43:50.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: Go ahead.
[43:51.230 --> 44:06.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, my beef is with these international, not international, but local phone, offering local service that doesn't work at all.
[44:06.530 --> 44:07.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: What do you mean, Jim?
[44:07.370 --> 44:08.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: You mean those alternate payphones?
[44:08.810 --> 44:09.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[44:09.230 --> 44:15.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, like at somebody's grocery store, they've got a phone outside, and it's no longer a New York telephone.
[44:15.350 --> 44:20.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's, you know, some little tiny outfit in God knows where.
[44:21.950 --> 44:29.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, for instance, I put in, foolishly, $2 into one today to make a long-distance phone call that I really had to make.
[44:30.430 --> 44:30.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: $2.
[44:30.890 --> 44:33.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't think I've ever known anybody to put in so much money in one of those things.
[44:33.590 --> 44:36.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's a completely foolish thing to do, and totally on faith.
[44:37.470 --> 44:40.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know why, but naturally it ate it.
[44:40.750 --> 44:41.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you gamble, sir?
[44:42.590 --> 44:46.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: I try not to, but I really had to make this phone call, and there's no other way to do it.
[44:47.170 --> 44:47.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: I see.
[44:48.050 --> 44:52.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: It ends up with my calling them up and saying, how do I get my money back?
[44:52.450 --> 44:53.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, who did you call up?
[44:53.550 --> 45:03.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: I called the operator, and there was no identification of what the phone was on the phone, which I assume has to be done usually.
[45:03.750 --> 45:05.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's illegal for them not to...
[45:05.130 --> 45:05.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[45:05.290 --> 45:07.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: They have to tell you where to call if the phone is broken.
[45:07.550 --> 45:07.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[45:07.710 --> 45:13.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: So I called Zero, and they connected me to the AT&T operator, who of course told me it was not her problem.
[45:13.310 --> 45:13.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[45:14.310 --> 45:21.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: And then somebody else got on and told me to talk to the person who owns the phone, supposedly, who's the grocery guy.
[45:21.450 --> 45:21.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[45:21.950 --> 45:35.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now the grocery guy started looking very violently at me and very angry, but finally he gave me the name of a company in Brooklyn, who I called, and they claim that nobody's there.
[45:35.830 --> 45:36.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: So...
[45:36.370 --> 45:37.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: They claim nobody's there?
[45:37.650 --> 45:38.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: You mean he got a machine?
[45:38.470 --> 45:39.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: Two dollars, essentially.
[45:39.970 --> 45:40.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: I see.
[45:41.530 --> 45:42.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: So I...
[45:42.290 --> 45:50.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: And why it is that we have to have these little independent things, I'm perfectly happy to have NYNEX regulated by the government.
[45:50.590 --> 45:54.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you know, I'd like to see competition, but I'd like to see fair competition.
[45:54.530 --> 46:02.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't want to see people getting ripped off, but I also don't want to see one monopoly that pretty much dictates the rules and what they say goes and there's no way around them.
[46:02.970 --> 46:03.690]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's kind of scary.
[46:03.930 --> 46:07.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: And you know, most countries are run by the government.
[46:07.410 --> 46:07.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm sorry?
[46:08.130 --> 46:11.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: How about having the government watch them more seriously and do a better job regulating?
[46:11.750 --> 46:13.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I think we should be watching them.
[46:13.510 --> 46:27.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we should be speaking to commissioners like Commissioner Green about this, because Because it's got to be government-regulated to a degree, but it also has to be regulated by the citizens of the city, of the state, of the country.
[46:27.630 --> 46:41.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, I don't like the idea of one phone company, because one phone company is very easy to suddenly control or suddenly turn off if some national emergency, quote-unquote, happens, and they need to control all the phone traffic.
[46:41.950 --> 46:44.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: This way, there's all kinds of alternatives.
[46:44.330 --> 46:49.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: There's all kinds of alternatives, and you can make your phone call if you're smart, if you know how to do it.
[46:49.170 --> 46:53.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, an alternative is not an alternative if it's a total rip-off.
[46:53.150 --> 46:53.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Of course not.
[46:53.790 --> 46:57.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: These independent companies are often just a total rip-off.
[46:57.710 --> 47:03.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it's not even, you know, I don't know how they get into this business, but it really seems like, you know, Joe's phones.
[47:03.310 --> 47:10.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, maybe the only way they can survive, I don't know if this is true, I'd like to know if it is, the only way they can survive is to rip people off.
[47:10.770 --> 47:16.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: Maybe it's so hard to be a phone company that, you know, if you do it fairly, you can't make any money.
[47:16.470 --> 47:19.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: And this is the only way... that's why you only get the sleazeball people in there.
[47:19.370 --> 47:22.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I'm not saying all the people running those phones are sleazeballs.
[47:22.730 --> 47:26.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'd like to know, is there anyone out there that's had a positive experience with those phones?
[47:26.710 --> 47:31.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: Besides me, because I found some of those payphones that allow you to call information all over the country for free.
[47:31.710 --> 47:33.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm sure it's not supposed to do that, but they do.
[47:34.850 --> 47:35.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: Other ones have...
[47:35.810 --> 47:38.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Working phone, basically, is what I would be happy with.
[47:38.490 --> 47:39.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sorry, a working phone?
[47:39.370 --> 47:40.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: Working phone would be nice, yes.
[47:41.090 --> 47:47.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, can you honestly say, though, that 9x phones are... I mean, they're better, yeah, but are they as good as they were in the past?
[47:47.890 --> 47:51.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: Same reason I now go with AT&T after trying, you know, one of the other ones.
[47:52.150 --> 47:59.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'd rather pay for a unionized company where the workers, maybe they're not treated great, but they're treated, you know, better than they are with Sprint or whatever.
[48:00.010 --> 48:01.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: What have you heard about Sprint?
[48:02.110 --> 48:08.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Just that they tend to do things like screw up on people's bills and just be extremely unreliable.
[48:08.630 --> 48:10.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: But anything with regards to how they treat their workers?
[48:11.610 --> 48:18.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I know that AT&T, or at least I've been told that AT&T is the only unionized one, and Sprint and MCI are not.
[48:19.090 --> 48:19.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: Interesting.
[48:19.490 --> 48:21.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'd like to get more information on that.
[48:21.890 --> 48:24.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, well, I just wanted to add my beef to the air there.
[48:24.590 --> 48:25.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thanks for calling.
[48:25.230 --> 48:25.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, thank you.
[48:25.670 --> 48:27.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: Our number is 279-3400.
[48:28.090 --> 48:28.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good morning.
[48:29.070 --> 48:29.690]  [SPEAKER_21]: Hi, how are you?
[48:29.910 --> 48:30.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good, how are you?
[48:30.590 --> 48:36.530]  [SPEAKER_21]: Spence, to your first caller, I just, by the way, was going to mention something about those private phones also.
[48:37.130 --> 48:43.310]  [SPEAKER_21]: There is a way of getting around paying a lot of money for that kind of call if you know how to do it.
[48:43.450 --> 48:44.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: What's your way?
[48:44.110 --> 48:51.430]  [SPEAKER_21]: Well, you know, you can call the AT&T or NYNEX and get their credit card for free.
[48:52.330 --> 49:01.890]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, you know, when you go to these private phones, you dial 00 to get the AT&T operator, and you tell them that you want to place a credit card call.
[49:02.290 --> 49:04.890]  [SPEAKER_21]: Even if it's a local number, you could still do that.
[49:05.070 --> 49:06.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, that's not always true.
[49:06.830 --> 49:09.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you dial 00 on some of those phones, you won't get AT&T.
[49:09.770 --> 49:11.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: You'll get something else if you get anything at all.
[49:11.770 --> 49:14.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, different phones do different things.
[49:14.310 --> 49:15.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: That will work on some phones, but it won't work at all.
[49:15.610 --> 49:18.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: How rare is that you are supposed to get the AT&T operator.
[49:18.950 --> 49:26.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: Even on a NYNEX phone, if you dial 00 on a NYNEX phone that has pre-selected another long-distance company, you might get Sprint, you might get MCI.
[49:27.150 --> 49:32.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: You have to use the carrier access code if you want AT&T, and that's 1028810ATT.
[49:33.670 --> 49:38.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: MCI is 10222, Sprint is 10333, and there's a whole bunch of others.
[49:38.650 --> 49:45.570]  [SPEAKER_21]: Well, if you could find the phone that even has the instructions on it, I mean, you have to read the fine print on how to do all of these things.
[49:46.550 --> 49:52.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: I would be happy if they just didn't block access to things, like 950 numbers, which don't cost anything to call.
[49:52.830 --> 49:57.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: They ask for $9.95 to call those things, and that's not fair.
[49:57.650 --> 50:00.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're obviously trying to prevent you from using another company.
[50:00.310 --> 50:05.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I don't mind other phones, other companies, if they do it fairly, if everybody plays by the same rules.
[50:05.430 --> 50:12.190]  [SPEAKER_21]: I would recommend everybody to at least get the AT&T calling card for free and the local NYNEX card for free.
[50:12.350 --> 50:18.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, every phone company, as far as I know, offers cards for free, and they come in handy depending on where you are at the moment.
[50:18.650 --> 50:32.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: For instance, if you're at a place that doesn't allow operator access, if you're, say, at work, you want to make a phone call to somewhere long distance, you want to pay for it yourself, but you can't access the operator to give her the calling card number,
[50:32.430 --> 50:36.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: and the switchboard won't allow you to place a zero-plus call, how do you get around that?
[50:37.130 --> 50:45.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, as an answer, you use the Sprint card, which comes off an 800 number, and you dial the 800 number, give them all the information, and they place the call for you that way.
[50:46.090 --> 50:51.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: So there's always an instance where you'll need one of these companies, and since it's free, why don't you get everything you can?
[50:51.590 --> 50:56.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: Get MCI, get AllNet, RCI, TDX, all those companies.
[50:56.310 --> 51:04.540]  [SPEAKER_21]: What I wanted you to do before you finish your program tonight, that was very interesting, you getting the information distance there.
[51:04.700 --> 51:05.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it was fun, too.
[51:05.700 --> 51:08.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, there's something happening in Liberia now.
[51:08.600 --> 51:11.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: There's supposedly a civil war going on.
[51:11.080 --> 51:12.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: Try and get the Hilton Hotel there.
[51:12.980 --> 51:14.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I don't want to bother them.
[51:14.240 --> 51:15.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're probably busy.
[51:15.200 --> 51:17.960]  [SPEAKER_21]: Go ahead, see what happens, how they handle a situation like that.
[51:18.020 --> 51:18.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, I don't know.
[51:19.140 --> 51:19.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Be brave.
[51:20.040 --> 51:22.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's not at this moment, sometimes during the show.
[51:22.940 --> 51:23.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, we'll see.
[51:23.760 --> 51:24.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: We'll see what happens.
[51:24.760 --> 51:27.320]  [SPEAKER_21]: I want to see how something like that works in real life.
[51:27.600 --> 51:28.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[51:28.480 --> 51:32.680]  [SPEAKER_21]: How do reporters get through when they have to start doing news?
[51:32.800 --> 51:33.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Go ahead, do it.
[51:33.740 --> 51:35.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, that's a good point.
[51:35.200 --> 51:36.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's a very good point.
[51:36.720 --> 51:39.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: Reporters do need to get through, and reporters should know how to use the phones.
[51:39.900 --> 51:46.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: And when the Panama situation broke, we made phone calls from here at WBAI, and it's a good thing that we knew how to do it.
[51:46.540 --> 51:47.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: We always had to do it.
[51:47.680 --> 51:48.480]  I'm very interested.
[51:48.760 --> 51:52.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you know, I'll show people that need to get through in emergency situations.
[51:52.460 --> 51:53.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'll do that any time.
[51:53.340 --> 51:53.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thank you.
[51:53.940 --> 51:54.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[51:54.400 --> 51:54.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bye.
[51:58.480 --> 52:04.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Nobody could get through then, and if you knew how to do it, if you knew how to use the alternatives, you could get through.
[52:04.420 --> 52:11.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's why alternatives are important for emergency situations, and also just to get through everyday life sometimes.
[52:11.280 --> 52:12.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: You need alternatives.
[52:12.300 --> 52:15.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can't always have just one way of doing things.
[52:15.360 --> 52:20.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: It goes for just about anything in life, including phone calls.
[52:20.020 --> 52:22.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: 2-7-9-3-4-100.
[52:22.740 --> 52:23.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good morning.
[52:24.040 --> 52:24.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good morning.
[52:25.520 --> 52:26.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Very interesting program.
[52:28.420 --> 52:37.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: One thing I'd like to say about these private payphones, I have an answering machine that I can access from a Touch-Tone phone.
[52:38.080 --> 52:45.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: Lots of these phones, once you dial your seven numbers or whatever, and you get through, the phones don't work anymore.
[52:45.740 --> 52:47.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: They turn off the Touch-Tone pad.
[52:47.420 --> 52:47.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[52:48.540 --> 52:50.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's a common problem.
[52:51.100 --> 52:52.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Also, if you were using...
[52:52.820 --> 53:06.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: If, say, you were calling another long-distance company, and they make you enter your authorization code and then dial the number, it doesn't work when you reach them either, because they turn off the Touch-Tone pad after a certain number of digits, and that's very unfair.
[53:06.300 --> 53:14.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Also, some of these phones only send out the Touch-Tone for a very brief time, like maybe a quarter of a second, and you can't hold down the key.
[53:15.340 --> 53:18.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: Some machines are sensitive, and you have to hold down...
[53:18.240 --> 53:24.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: or not sensitive, and you have to hold down the key for a long period of time, but some of these quote-unquote modern phones don't allow you to do that.
[53:25.260 --> 53:28.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the real ironic thing is you've already paid for your phone call.
[53:28.400 --> 53:30.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're connected, but it's completely useless.
[53:30.420 --> 53:31.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can't do anything.
[53:32.000 --> 53:42.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: What I would suggest is a cheap device called a Touch-Tone pad that you would hold up to the mouthpiece, and that way you'd be able to send your tones over the mouthpiece, because that's all it is.
[53:42.700 --> 53:47.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're just sending tones over the phone wires.
[53:47.680 --> 53:49.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: So it doesn't matter where you send it from.
[53:49.880 --> 53:53.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you could speak the tones, it would work, but nobody can do that, of course.
[53:54.140 --> 54:04.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, you know, that's fine and dandy, except if I wanted to carry something with me, then I would have gotten a cheaper answering machine that has one of those remote things that you have to carry all the time.
[54:04.200 --> 54:05.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right, one of those...
[54:05.400 --> 54:07.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: But everybody can get into those ones.
[54:07.380 --> 54:11.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: They can whistle and access those particular answering machines.
[54:11.560 --> 54:11.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[54:12.120 --> 54:15.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to tell you a quick story of what happened to me and Moabelle.
[54:16.240 --> 54:16.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[54:16.860 --> 54:21.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: I got... I had moved, and I wanted my number enlisted.
[54:22.180 --> 54:26.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's the years I had gotten my bill at my P.O.
[54:26.260 --> 54:26.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: box.
[54:26.920 --> 54:29.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I have, like, a weird last name that's made up of two words.
[54:30.660 --> 54:38.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: And so about two weeks after I move, I get my bill at my new residence, which was an error, and my name was severely misspelled.
[54:39.860 --> 54:44.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then a week later, I get a sales letter from a metropolitan life insurance company.
[54:46.120 --> 54:48.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I was wondering, how did they get my new number?
[54:49.860 --> 54:53.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: I called the guy whose name was on the sales letter.
[54:53.380 --> 54:54.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: I called him in the middle of the night.
[54:55.020 --> 54:58.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, I harassed him, sort of, trying to get this info.
[54:58.620 --> 54:59.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: They wouldn't tell me.
[54:59.900 --> 55:05.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: The phone company told me, I must be crazy, because, you know, they wouldn't do it.
[55:05.400 --> 55:07.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: If it's unlisted, then it's unlisted.
[55:07.620 --> 55:09.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: For two months, they told me I was crazy.
[55:09.880 --> 55:12.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Finally, I had a hearing in front of the P.S.C.
[55:12.640 --> 55:22.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: And what came out was that the guy that printed the non-published numbers or transferred them to microfilm or something sold the copy to Metropolitan Life.
[55:23.300 --> 55:23.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wow.
[55:24.520 --> 55:25.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Isn't that nice?
[55:25.380 --> 55:26.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's pretty incredible.
[55:26.360 --> 55:27.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Did that make the papers?
[55:27.200 --> 55:27.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's a scandal.
[55:28.680 --> 55:29.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no.
[55:29.560 --> 55:32.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I was young and foolish, and I should have sued them.
[55:32.200 --> 55:35.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I was just happy to know that I'm not crazy.
[55:35.940 --> 55:37.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it's always good to know that.
[55:37.320 --> 55:42.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: But still, you could have cleaned up with that, I think, because that's a big invasion of privacy.
[55:42.660 --> 55:44.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: I assume that guy got fired.
[55:44.620 --> 55:45.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: I have no idea.
[55:47.040 --> 55:52.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Supposedly, a letter went out to some commission or somebody who oversees the insurance business.
[55:52.920 --> 55:54.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: I never followed it up.
[55:54.220 --> 55:55.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was just...
[55:55.320 --> 55:56.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: How long ago was this?
[55:56.740 --> 55:59.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: This was, oh, God, this is like 1976.
[56:00.260 --> 56:00.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[56:00.860 --> 56:01.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: It wasn't that long ago then.
[56:02.340 --> 56:04.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, that's an interesting story.
[56:04.300 --> 56:07.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: And if anybody else has something similar going on now, pursue it.
[56:07.360 --> 56:08.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you think...
[56:08.400 --> 56:11.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: What told you that the phone company knew about this?
[56:12.380 --> 56:13.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, nothing told me.
[56:13.860 --> 56:20.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just that, you know, they said possibly one of my friends has a friend who works there who gave my name, et cetera.
[56:21.740 --> 56:25.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: My logic said to me, well, then they would spell my name properly.
[56:25.580 --> 56:28.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, if you get a sales letter, it should have your name properly.
[56:28.420 --> 56:28.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[56:29.000 --> 56:32.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: My name was misspelled the same way that the phone company misspelled it.
[56:32.280 --> 56:33.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, that tells you right there.
[56:33.460 --> 56:38.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that's why when I deliberately misspell my name sometimes, for instance, you go to RadioShack.
[56:38.780 --> 56:41.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: For some reason, RadioShack interrogates you whenever you buy something.
[56:41.620 --> 56:43.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: They demand to know what your name is, where you live.
[56:43.780 --> 56:49.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: So every time I go in, and it's the same one, the same guy asking me all the time, I always give a different name and a different address.
[56:50.160 --> 56:55.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, sometimes I give the same address because that way I get to see who they give my mailing list to or my name to.
[56:55.500 --> 56:58.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I do that to everybody, and I find out who talks to who.
[56:59.220 --> 57:01.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, you know, it doesn't cost me any time.
[57:01.620 --> 57:05.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's sort of a way of having fun with these people.
[57:06.860 --> 57:09.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: There's a lot of exchanging of information going on.
[57:09.220 --> 57:12.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: The phone company, I know, is about to start selling its mailing list.
[57:12.980 --> 57:19.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: They probably sent you a little form with your last phone bill that gave you the option of not being a part of that.
[57:19.880 --> 57:22.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: But it's something that we're going to see a lot more of in the future.
[57:23.640 --> 57:27.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Of course, the more mail, the more junk mail I get, the more I just don't read it at all.
[57:27.640 --> 57:28.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's a big waste.
[57:28.880 --> 57:30.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: So I don't know where it's going to wind up.
[57:30.980 --> 57:33.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Anyway, thanks very much for calling, sir, and good luck in the future.
[57:33.860 --> 57:34.220]  Thank you.
[57:34.320 --> 57:34.560]  Bye-bye.
[57:35.700 --> 57:36.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: 279-3400.
[57:37.020 --> 57:37.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good morning.
[57:38.220 --> 57:38.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hi.
[57:40.000 --> 57:47.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: I tuned in not too long ago, but I gathered from what was said that you talked about long-distance rates.
[57:48.540 --> 57:50.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: We didn't talk too much about long-distance rates.
[57:50.680 --> 57:52.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: We talked mostly about local.
[57:52.580 --> 57:58.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, that seems pretty central, given what Sprint and AT&T have been advertising.
[57:59.160 --> 58:01.380]  [SPEAKER_17]: I assume you've gotten to the bottom of it.
[58:01.440 --> 58:07.320]  [SPEAKER_17]: I switched from AT&T to Sprint after doing some research.
[58:07.320 --> 58:22.320]  [SPEAKER_17]: It seemed that although I had reached out America with AT&T, it seemed that Sprint had hours that were extended well beyond AT&T's and that the rates themselves were fractionally lower.
[58:23.260 --> 58:28.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: And given that the hours were extended, it seemed that Sprint had a better situation.
[58:28.840 --> 58:29.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[58:29.220 --> 58:31.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it's important to know two things.
[58:31.900 --> 58:35.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: One, for different people, different companies work better.
[58:35.480 --> 58:39.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I've heard complaints about all the companies from people throughout the years.
[58:39.000 --> 58:44.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: And two, is the fact that just because you choose a particular company doesn't mean you can't use another company.
[58:44.900 --> 58:47.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: So if you choose Sprint, that doesn't mean you're abandoning AT&T forever.
[58:47.900 --> 58:52.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you need to use them for something, you can always just dial their carrier access code and you're connected to them.
[58:52.980 --> 58:56.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: So it's not that final a thing.
[58:56.640 --> 58:58.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: And you can always switch back at some point.
[58:58.920 --> 59:03.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: Usually they pay the fee for that if they have a certain promotion that time of year.
[59:03.060 --> 59:03.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: Right.
[59:03.640 --> 59:09.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, that's their offer now that, you know, if you've switched over from AT&T to Sprint, they'll pay for you switching back.
[59:10.800 --> 59:18.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: But I don't see, at this point, I mean, I make about $60 average a month on AT&T.
[59:19.480 --> 59:23.720]  [SPEAKER_17]: So now I've switched and I thought, you know, maybe I'd say 15%.
[59:23.720 --> 59:24.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[59:25.560 --> 59:26.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: And have you?
[59:26.900 --> 59:27.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, I don't know.
[59:27.720 --> 59:28.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: I just got my first bill.
[59:28.960 --> 59:42.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: So, and, uh, pretty hard to figure it out, really, because, uh, you know, you'd have to, you'd have to call up AT&T and go over it with them and see, uh, if the rates are really, uh, lower.
[59:42.680 --> 59:49.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Unless it's a dramatic difference, you know, I don't, I don't really see the point of, of wasting hours trying to figure out which plan works best.
[59:49.360 --> 59:52.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: Unless you're spending a lot of money, like thousands of dollars a month.
[59:53.020 --> 59:53.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[59:53.420 --> 59:57.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Then it would make sense to, uh, to, to, um, use the company that saved the most money.
[59:57.580 --> 01:00:00.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, in fact, a lot of companies, a lot of corporations do that.
[01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:05.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: When you make a call, a computer calculates which company has the cheapest rate to that place at that time.
[01:00:05.940 --> 01:00:06.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sure.
[01:00:06.160 --> 01:00:07.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it places it over that line.
[01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:14.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Unfortunately, though, that sometimes that results in, uh, in poor lines and people don't know a way to get around it.
[01:00:14.540 --> 01:00:19.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, so it's important to be able to have control over the system as well as, as having the alternatives.
[01:00:19.680 --> 01:00:24.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: In other words, you should be able to, uh, make a call using any company that you want at any time.
[01:00:25.180 --> 01:00:28.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, and that's, uh, that's something that a lot of people just aren't taught.
[01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:33.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: In fact, none of us are taught that we have to go out and learn it ourselves and, and ask a lot of questions.
[01:00:34.160 --> 01:00:36.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, so hopefully that will improve over the years.
[01:00:36.600 --> 01:00:36.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: Right.
[01:00:36.900 --> 01:00:46.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, I'm, I don't know how the service also, the quality of service differs from Sprint to AT&T, which, I mean, AT&T does give excellent service, I think.
[01:00:47.120 --> 01:00:49.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: For the most part, they, you know, it's, it's okay.
[01:00:49.400 --> 01:00:50.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, it's not bad.
[01:00:50.380 --> 01:00:55.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: But, uh, they make mistakes too, and they can, uh, they can rip you off if you don't watch out.
[01:00:56.040 --> 01:00:56.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm sure.
[01:00:56.460 --> 01:01:12.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: Did you see the article, uh, uh, it was in, in like a business journal, like Cranes or, or The Economist or something like that, I don't know, where, uh, there, billions of dollars a year were being charged, overcharged, uh, for, uh, transatlantic calls by,
[01:01:12.700 --> 01:01:17.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: uh, the major carrier, I don't know if it was AT&T, or ITT, maybe.
[01:01:18.120 --> 01:01:20.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: They were being charged, uh, under what circumstances?
[01:01:20.480 --> 01:01:28.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, just, they just found generally that there was about three billion in, in overcharges, uh, on transatlantic calls, just generally.
[01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:31.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, that's, uh, that's, that's a fairly large amount.
[01:01:31.740 --> 01:01:33.300]  [SPEAKER_17]: I, I thought so, too.
[01:01:33.640 --> 01:01:33.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[01:01:33.920 --> 01:01:43.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's why it seems so ironic that, uh, we down at the bottom of, of, of the totem pole here have to deal with, uh, with, with paying 50 cents for something that is now free.
[01:01:44.060 --> 01:01:49.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, it's, um, it seems like we're being punished a bit too much for something we didn't do.
[01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:52.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, that's, uh, a bit of an injustice.
[01:01:52.620 --> 01:01:55.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: Anyway, thanks very much for calling, sir, and I hope your, your choice is a good one.
[01:01:55.760 --> 01:01:56.160]  [SPEAKER_17]: Thanks a lot.
[01:01:56.360 --> 01:01:56.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[01:01:57.560 --> 01:01:58.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: 279-3400.
[01:01:58.860 --> 01:01:59.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good morning.
[01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:00.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello.
[01:02:01.120 --> 01:02:01.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, go ahead.
[01:02:01.740 --> 01:02:03.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, fascinating, uh, show here.
[01:02:03.860 --> 01:02:04.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thanks.
[01:02:04.860 --> 01:02:11.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I also resist, uh, RadioShack, uh, giving them my, my name, address, and I think it's, it's a bunch of cock and bull.
[01:02:11.540 --> 01:02:15.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you know, I don't want to pick on them too much because they seem to be the worst offender, in my opinion.
[01:02:15.920 --> 01:02:23.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: But, uh, there are other places that interrogate you and ask you all kinds of personal questions whenever you dare to buy something from them.
[01:02:23.260 --> 01:02:24.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: It makes you wonder what they really want.
[01:02:24.900 --> 01:02:27.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: You spend a quarter and they'll ask you for, you know, your name and address.
[01:02:28.020 --> 01:02:28.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[01:02:28.380 --> 01:02:32.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: I have never found one of those, uh, Joe phone company phones that have worked.
[01:02:32.780 --> 01:02:39.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: And when I did, it has been so outrageously priced that I just hang up and walk out and you just get disgusted.
[01:02:39.320 --> 01:02:42.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: We want a dollar, you know, for, to call across town or whatnot.
[01:02:42.940 --> 01:02:43.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right, right, right.
[01:02:43.960 --> 01:02:46.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Last chance from the city is like, you know, two dollars.
[01:02:46.260 --> 01:02:48.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: See, all those phones are able to be programmed right there.
[01:02:48.980 --> 01:02:51.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: In fact, they can be programmed over the phone as well.
[01:02:51.400 --> 01:02:56.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, whereas regular New York telephone payphones, they're, they're not programmed within the phone.
[01:02:56.920 --> 01:02:58.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: It must be a set, it's a set rate or whatnot.
[01:02:59.120 --> 01:03:01.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's something that is set at the site.
[01:03:01.040 --> 01:03:07.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's either set with the, the consent of the person who owns the phone or the, uh, the person that leases the phone out.
[01:03:07.940 --> 01:03:08.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[01:03:08.200 --> 01:03:09.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, those rates could be changed.
[01:03:09.680 --> 01:03:11.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: They make them look like AT&T phones.
[01:03:11.780 --> 01:03:13.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, yeah, that's, that's something else.
[01:03:13.120 --> 01:03:16.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: You have to wonder, why do they make them look so much like phones that they aren't?
[01:03:16.240 --> 01:03:18.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, like, like knockoffs right off the bat.
[01:03:18.860 --> 01:03:24.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I think, uh, I think the coin return mechanism is on the other side of the fake ones.
[01:03:24.680 --> 01:03:28.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, well, you can tell because the receiver's plastic and, you know, a lot of it is plastic.
[01:03:28.400 --> 01:03:34.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, the, the visual effect is you're, you're using, you know, a New York telephone, so you just, you just pay it.
[01:03:34.220 --> 01:03:35.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you, you, you don't, you don't, you don't question it.
[01:03:36.060 --> 01:03:37.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Most people don't question it.
[01:03:37.160 --> 01:03:37.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[01:03:37.640 --> 01:03:39.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've also had another question I want to ask you.
[01:03:39.360 --> 01:03:39.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:03:39.460 --> 01:03:46.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is it legal for a company to tap their phone on their private property if they have a public phone in their, in their premises?
[01:03:46.840 --> 01:03:47.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Can they just tap it?
[01:03:48.280 --> 01:03:50.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you know, a lot of companies do that.
[01:03:50.160 --> 01:03:52.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: A lot of companies, uh, in fact, AT&T is one of them.
[01:03:53.140 --> 01:04:00.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: When, when you call them, they'll say, this call may be monitored, uh, for, uh, for service considerations or whatever.
[01:04:00.700 --> 01:04:03.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, but they have to tell the employees they're doing that.
[01:04:03.240 --> 01:04:06.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't understand because there's a phone, there's a, there's a company in the city that I call a lot.
[01:04:06.840 --> 01:04:08.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: I use their phone to call on their premises.
[01:04:09.360 --> 01:04:13.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a public phone, and I know it's tapped because I once saw a phone worker working on the phone.
[01:04:13.900 --> 01:04:15.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: I asked him, I said, hey, are these phones tapped?
[01:04:15.580 --> 01:04:17.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because all I hear is click, click, click, click, click.
[01:04:17.380 --> 01:04:17.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[01:04:17.720 --> 01:04:18.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're tapped, you know?
[01:04:18.720 --> 01:04:19.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: What can you do about it?
[01:04:19.700 --> 01:04:21.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, why would, why would those particular phones be tapped?
[01:04:21.780 --> 01:04:23.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is this a crazy company of some sort?
[01:04:23.400 --> 01:04:27.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a company that, you know, has a lot of money, and they, they, you know, it's an auction house.
[01:04:27.620 --> 01:04:27.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[01:04:28.180 --> 01:04:29.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't want to say the name or whatnot.
[01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:35.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you see, you wouldn't be able to tell a phone is tapped by clicks, because we've reached the stage where we can tap phones without making clicks.
[01:04:35.740 --> 01:04:36.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're right.
[01:04:36.800 --> 01:04:37.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: You've got to be right.
[01:04:37.740 --> 01:04:41.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I asked this phone guy, he was working on a phone, and he said, yes, they are tapped, you know?
[01:04:41.200 --> 01:04:44.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: And ever since then, I just, you know, I refuse to use a phone.
[01:04:44.540 --> 01:04:48.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm wondering, is it legal for them to tap private phone calls on a public phone?
[01:04:49.980 --> 01:04:50.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know.
[01:04:50.620 --> 01:04:51.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's a very good question.
[01:04:51.740 --> 01:04:52.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: That is a very good question.
[01:04:52.920 --> 01:04:59.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: I know they're doing everything now because of the war on drugs, you know, they have to invade people's privacy all over the place, you know, for your own protection.
[01:05:01.440 --> 01:05:02.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's, that's a good question.
[01:05:02.660 --> 01:05:07.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it is, and I think they, I don't think it's any way we could stop it, but...
[01:05:07.240 --> 01:05:15.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: But you have to have a court order to tap somebody's phone, and I believe that person always has to find out in the end that his phone was tapped, whether or not he's charged with anything.
[01:05:16.160 --> 01:05:18.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: In the case of a public phone, who do you tell?
[01:05:18.460 --> 01:05:19.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you tell everybody that ever used it?
[01:05:20.340 --> 01:05:27.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, I think people just ought to be aware that when they're in a company's, you know, when they're in a company building, a building that's owned by a company, watch it.
[01:05:27.660 --> 01:05:31.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, no, you know, if you're talking something illegal, you know, you're probably going to know the difference anyway.
[01:05:32.260 --> 01:05:37.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, people that just make phone calls in general shouldn't have to be, you know, monitored.
[01:05:37.480 --> 01:05:38.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's ridiculous.
[01:05:38.680 --> 01:05:41.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, people are being monitored a lot more than they think they are.
[01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:44.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: In fact, the phone itself doesn't have to be monitored.
[01:05:45.040 --> 01:05:49.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: The phone company could be monitoring their calls while they're in progress.
[01:05:49.180 --> 01:05:53.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Was it on your show that I heard that they can actually hear what you're saying, even though the phone isn't picked up?
[01:05:54.320 --> 01:05:56.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, there are some phones that can do that.
[01:05:57.240 --> 01:05:58.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: Alternative payphones, yes, is a good point.
[01:05:58.960 --> 01:06:14.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: In fact, the magazine I worked for had a letter from somebody that said they saw this, because what they did was they called up one of these alternate payphones, and they saw the number on the phone, they went home and they called that number, and it picked up with a little computer,
[01:06:14.660 --> 01:06:23.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: and they were able to figure out how to get into the computer to make the phone do certain things, and they hit a button, and all of a sudden they could hear all the noise around the phone.
[01:06:23.140 --> 01:06:25.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: They could hear cars starting up, they could hear people walking around.
[01:06:26.080 --> 01:06:29.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was sort of like a room monitor feature on a payphone.
[01:06:29.720 --> 01:06:35.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: So obviously, if any hacker could do it, they obviously are able to do it.
[01:06:35.200 --> 01:06:37.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it's there for somebody to do it.
[01:06:37.140 --> 01:06:37.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, it's a feature.
[01:06:38.060 --> 01:06:40.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: So you have to wonder, what is the feature being used for?
[01:06:40.940 --> 01:06:41.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I mean...
[01:06:41.700 --> 01:06:46.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, yeah, that telephone could be listening to you even with the phone off the hook.
[01:06:46.760 --> 01:06:47.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hung up or whatnot.
[01:06:48.220 --> 01:06:49.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's, yeah, it's scary.
[01:06:49.840 --> 01:06:51.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: And who knows, there could be cameras in the things, too.
[01:06:52.960 --> 01:06:54.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, this is a surveillance age.
[01:06:55.260 --> 01:06:56.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, great show, great show.
[01:06:56.900 --> 01:06:57.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, thanks for calling.
[01:06:57.800 --> 01:06:57.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[01:06:58.760 --> 01:07:01.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Speaking of 2600, we have our meeting tomorrow.
[01:07:02.060 --> 01:07:09.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: If anyone is interested in hanging out with a bunch of computer hackers, we have meetings every first Friday of the month at the Citicorp Center.
[01:07:09.920 --> 01:07:22.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: In fact, speaking of the Citicorp Center, talking about crazy corporations that tap phones, I'm not saying necessarily that they do that, but somebody there suspected that they were doing this.
[01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:29.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the result was a big sign on all of the payphones in the Citicorp Center that said, tapped.
[01:07:29.820 --> 01:07:33.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: In other words, you walk up to this phone, and the first thing you see is a big word saying, tapped.
[01:07:34.700 --> 01:07:38.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: Makes you think a little bit before you start making your phone calls.
[01:07:38.940 --> 01:07:42.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that was based on somebody hearing some weird noise when they picked up the phone.
[01:07:42.860 --> 01:07:44.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: So they thought, hey, this means the phone is being tapped.
[01:07:44.840 --> 01:07:46.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: Maybe they were right, maybe they were wrong.
[01:07:46.220 --> 01:07:46.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Who knows?
[01:07:47.860 --> 01:07:49.180]  Maybe they were right, maybe they were wrong.
[01:07:49.280 --> 01:07:49.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, that's my voice.
[01:07:50.040 --> 01:07:50.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good morning.
[01:07:50.640 --> 01:07:51.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good morning.
[01:07:52.280 --> 01:07:57.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: I have an experience with a telephone company that was very strange.
[01:07:58.120 --> 01:08:04.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: I called, and I couldn't find a telephone number of a television station.
[01:08:04.920 --> 01:08:09.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I looked all through the book, and finally I had to get information.
[01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:12.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: And she told me to look on the W.
[01:08:12.600 --> 01:08:19.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, it seems out there listed on the wireless, but the general public doesn't know that.
[01:08:19.780 --> 01:08:21.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I didn't know it either.
[01:08:21.440 --> 01:08:25.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: So when she told me, I said, do I have to pay for this?
[01:08:25.240 --> 01:08:25.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: She says, yes.
[01:08:26.040 --> 01:08:26.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: I says, why?
[01:08:26.980 --> 01:08:29.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: She says, because she gave you information.
[01:08:29.840 --> 01:08:33.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I said, I'm not giving you any money for this call.
[01:08:33.120 --> 01:08:35.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: I want to stick to your supervisor.
[01:08:35.320 --> 01:08:39.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: I said, I had a big argument, and she let me speak to the supervisor.
[01:08:39.780 --> 01:08:44.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: So the supervisor gives me an explanation why I have to pay for the call.
[01:08:44.620 --> 01:08:46.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: I says, I want to tell you something.
[01:08:46.620 --> 01:08:53.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'd like to know why you bring all those ten-pound books around twice a year that we're paying for.
[01:08:54.100 --> 01:09:03.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: If we have to pay for all that lousy information that we could get, what do we need the telephone books for that you bring to the house?
[01:09:03.020 --> 01:09:06.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: I have several copies of different bursos, and they're no good.
[01:09:07.180 --> 01:09:11.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: So we had a big fight, and she says, I wouldn't hang up.
[01:09:11.660 --> 01:09:14.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: And finally, she says, okay, I won't charge you.
[01:09:14.780 --> 01:09:15.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, boy.
[01:09:15.500 --> 01:09:16.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, that's quite a story.
[01:09:17.340 --> 01:09:18.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, did they not give...
[01:09:18.900 --> 01:09:20.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, I refused to pay for it.
[01:09:20.580 --> 01:09:22.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, did they not give you the number?
[01:09:22.820 --> 01:09:24.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: ...a couple of times a year.
[01:09:24.660 --> 01:09:25.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: They weigh a ton.
[01:09:25.760 --> 01:09:26.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[01:09:26.000 --> 01:09:30.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you can't, you don't know how to use them, because they don't give you any instructions.
[01:09:31.100 --> 01:09:37.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: How would a person know that a television station or a radio station is on the W?
[01:09:38.260 --> 01:09:38.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[01:09:39.180 --> 01:09:41.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, now, did they give you the number, at least?
[01:09:41.780 --> 01:09:47.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, she told me that if I look on the W, alphabetically, I could find the station.
[01:09:47.580 --> 01:09:48.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: You mean you called...
[01:09:48.460 --> 01:09:51.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: But how would a person know to look on the W?
[01:09:51.780 --> 01:09:52.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you called...
[01:09:52.900 --> 01:09:56.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you were like wireless, it wouldn't occur to me in a million years.
[01:09:56.700 --> 01:09:58.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: You called information.
[01:09:58.460 --> 01:10:00.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: They don't tell you I don't look for anything.
[01:10:01.160 --> 01:10:01.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: You...
[01:10:01.640 --> 01:10:07.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you lug those big books around, and they bring you twice a year, and we pay for them.
[01:10:08.100 --> 01:10:08.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[01:10:08.400 --> 01:10:13.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: The yellow book and the other book, and I think the hold on thing is a real racket.
[01:10:14.180 --> 01:10:16.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Let me just ask one question, and then I've got to go to another call.
[01:10:16.640 --> 01:10:20.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you asked for a number from information, and they didn't give you the number.
[01:10:20.840 --> 01:10:22.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: They just told you where to look in the phone book.
[01:10:22.560 --> 01:10:23.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: You told me where to look.
[01:10:23.760 --> 01:10:24.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's incredible.
[01:10:24.520 --> 01:10:27.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: And on the right there, letter of the album.
[01:10:27.100 --> 01:10:28.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: And they charge you for that.
[01:10:28.220 --> 01:10:28.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's...
[01:10:28.540 --> 01:10:31.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I said, do you have to pay for everything you've got?
[01:10:31.400 --> 01:10:32.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: She says, yes.
[01:10:32.480 --> 01:10:33.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: I said, why?
[01:10:33.460 --> 01:10:35.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: She says, because that's what they have to do.
[01:10:35.900 --> 01:10:38.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: I said, well, I'm not going to pay you while I speak to her.
[01:10:39.120 --> 01:10:40.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, well, I think that's where we came in.
[01:10:40.760 --> 01:10:44.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thanks very much for calling, though, and good luck in the future with these kind of things.
[01:10:45.020 --> 01:10:45.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's what we need to do.
[01:10:45.840 --> 01:10:46.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: We need to stay informed.
[01:10:47.200 --> 01:10:48.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: We need to stay outraged.
[01:10:48.980 --> 01:10:49.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good morning.
[01:10:50.280 --> 01:10:50.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, hi.
[01:10:50.780 --> 01:10:51.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: Good morning.
[01:10:51.540 --> 01:10:53.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm enjoying the show a lot.
[01:10:53.240 --> 01:10:54.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: I've got a question.
[01:10:54.580 --> 01:10:54.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[01:10:55.360 --> 01:11:04.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: Last year, New York Telephone sent me a promotion in the mail stating that for two months, I would receive call waiting for free.
[01:11:04.500 --> 01:11:05.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: I could try it out for two months.
[01:11:06.260 --> 01:11:10.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: And at the end of the two months, I could decide whether or not I wanted to continue the service.
[01:11:10.800 --> 01:11:15.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: And they included a card to fill out and send back to them.
[01:11:15.840 --> 01:11:23.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: By a certain date, stating, yes, I'd like to continue and I'd be charged whatever the monthly charge was, or if I didn't want the service.
[01:11:24.220 --> 01:11:28.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: So at the end of the two months, I decided that I didn't particularly want the service.
[01:11:28.700 --> 01:11:30.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: I filled the card out, sent it to them.
[01:11:31.460 --> 01:11:39.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: And probably a week or so later, I got a telephone call from New York Telephone asking me if I did want the service.
[01:11:39.800 --> 01:11:42.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I told them over the phone, no, I didn't.
[01:11:42.100 --> 01:11:43.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I had sent them their card back.
[01:11:44.180 --> 01:11:45.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: And they said, fine.
[01:11:45.900 --> 01:11:51.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: And to this day, I'm still receiving the call waiting service, but I'm not being charged for it.
[01:11:52.240 --> 01:11:52.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, uh...
[01:11:52.900 --> 01:11:58.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I guess my question is, is this ever going to... are they ever going to dig this out?
[01:11:58.840 --> 01:12:01.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: Or can I just continue enjoying this mistake?
[01:12:02.060 --> 01:12:02.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: Or should I...
[01:12:02.400 --> 01:12:05.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, eventually, eventually, they'll probably say...
[01:12:05.120 --> 01:12:07.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: And stop and call them and say, listen, you guys have made a mistake here.
[01:12:07.800 --> 01:12:10.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: Can they charge me for all these months?
[01:12:10.520 --> 01:12:12.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, they can't charge you.
[01:12:12.160 --> 01:12:16.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Even if you hadn't told them that, they can't charge you retroactively for something like that.
[01:12:16.840 --> 01:12:17.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: What they'll do is...
[01:12:17.540 --> 01:12:20.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: The worst thing they'll do is they'll call you and say, hey, it looks like you have call waiting.
[01:12:20.940 --> 01:12:24.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're going to disconnect it unless you start paying for it as of that date.
[01:12:24.920 --> 01:12:28.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: And you don't have to worry about paying for something that you certainly didn't want.
[01:12:28.860 --> 01:12:31.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: And you said quite a few times that you didn't want it.
[01:12:31.540 --> 01:12:32.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: So I wouldn't worry about that.
[01:12:32.580 --> 01:12:35.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: All this is is a simple choice on a computer.
[01:12:35.780 --> 01:12:36.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, no.
[01:12:36.440 --> 01:12:37.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: Call waiting, yes or no.
[01:12:37.820 --> 01:12:40.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: And someone just didn't put the N on top of the Y.
[01:12:40.580 --> 01:12:41.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's all this is.
[01:12:42.080 --> 01:12:44.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: And until someone gets around to doing that, you have call waiting.
[01:12:44.980 --> 01:12:48.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: And if you need to turn it off for any time, you can always dial *70.
[01:12:48.640 --> 01:12:49.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: They don't tell you that.
[01:12:49.760 --> 01:12:53.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: But that turns it off for the length of one call.
[01:12:53.960 --> 01:12:54.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[01:12:55.040 --> 01:12:55.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[01:12:55.380 --> 01:12:55.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thanks for calling.
[01:12:56.020 --> 01:12:56.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good night.
[01:12:56.400 --> 01:12:56.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bye.
[01:12:56.500 --> 01:12:56.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[01:12:56.780 --> 01:13:00.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's going to be our last call, unfortunately, because we are running out of time.
[01:13:06.110 --> 01:13:08.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's just about almost 1 o'clock.
[01:13:08.150 --> 01:13:09.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bob Fass is coming in.
[01:13:11.310 --> 01:13:12.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's been fun.
[01:13:12.410 --> 01:13:13.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's been a lot of fun.
[01:13:13.150 --> 01:13:13.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's been educational.
[01:13:13.810 --> 01:13:14.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: And there's a lot of people out there.
[01:13:14.990 --> 01:13:16.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sorry to all those we didn't get to.
[01:13:17.990 --> 01:13:20.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's something to keep aware of.
[01:13:20.210 --> 01:13:25.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: And if you want to write to us here at the radio station and share your experiences, maybe we can read them over the air next time in two weeks.
[01:13:26.030 --> 01:13:27.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: The address is WBAI.
[01:13:28.070 --> 01:13:29.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: The program is The Fifth Corner.
[01:13:29.610 --> 01:13:31.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[01:13:31.130 --> 01:13:36.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the address is 505 8th Avenue, New York, New York, 10018.
[01:13:37.810 --> 01:13:41.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: And remember to keep looking around.
[01:13:41.150 --> 01:13:42.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: Keep experimenting.
[01:13:42.550 --> 01:13:43.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: Keep learning.
[01:13:43.150 --> 01:13:45.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because if you don't, you're going to be victimized.
[01:13:46.770 --> 01:13:47.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thanks for listening.
[01:13:48.130 --> 01:13:48.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'll see you in two weeks.