Off The Hook - 1995-04-19

[00:02.940 --> 00:06.980]  [SPEAKER_33]: We'll be at 11 o'clock and at 12 midnight, Earthwatch with Robert Knight.
[00:07.180 --> 00:09.120]  [SPEAKER_33]: We'll have more details on this tragedy.
[00:09.880 --> 00:12.100]  [SPEAKER_33]: Up next, immediately, we'll be Off The Hook.
[00:12.380 --> 00:13.100]  [SPEAKER_33]: Stay with us.
[00:22.930 --> 00:26.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, the station that works for you needs your help.
[00:26.170 --> 00:30.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: Help to get the remainder of premiums from the last marathon into the mail pronto.
[00:31.210 --> 00:42.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you have any time at all during the day, weekdays, please call Lois Henry at WBAI, 212-279-0707, extension 127.
[00:43.630 --> 00:51.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: To volunteer to help us get the premiums out, that's Lois Henry at WBAI, 279-0707, extension 127.
[00:52.550 --> 00:53.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: Help us.
[01:05.030 --> 01:09.590]  [SPEAKER_25]: And the time is 10 o'clock, which means it's time for Off The Hook.
[01:16.930 --> 01:21.170]  [SPEAKER_20]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:22.090 --> 01:26.750]  [SPEAKER_20]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:27.470 --> 01:32.170]  [SPEAKER_22]: It couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
[01:32.430 --> 01:35.110]  [SPEAKER_22]: Bum Diddly Bum, but the best, expect the worst.
[01:35.710 --> 01:37.650]  [SPEAKER_22]: I hope that's understood.
[01:37.850 --> 01:38.750]  [SPEAKER_22]: Bum Diddly Bum!
[02:34.340 --> 02:35.640]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, what a day it's been.
[02:38.320 --> 02:41.580]  [SPEAKER_25]: This strange day in April, 1995.
[02:42.800 --> 02:44.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's two minutes after 10 o'clock.
[02:44.480 --> 02:52.520]  [SPEAKER_25]: This is Off The Hook, Emmanuel Goldstein with you, talking about the latest in high technology, the Internet, the phone system, and computers, and all kinds of fun, outrageous things like that.
[02:53.620 --> 03:02.440]  [SPEAKER_25]: But, if you've been with us for the last few weeks, well, then you'll know that we're engaged in a battle.
[03:02.660 --> 03:03.880]  [SPEAKER_25]: We're engaged in a war, if you will.
[03:03.960 --> 03:04.960]  [SPEAKER_25]: We're engaged in a struggle.
[03:05.180 --> 03:06.480]  [SPEAKER_25]: We're engaged in...
[03:08.700 --> 03:10.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: The Quest for ISDN.
[03:50.620 --> 03:57.460]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, this is day number 29 in the quest for ISDN.
[03:59.220 --> 04:03.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: ISDN is something that one day, maybe, everybody outside the NYNEX area will have.
[04:03.800 --> 04:12.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: But, when they get it, they'll realize that phone service can be a lot more interesting than just picking up, getting a dial tone, things like that.
[04:12.760 --> 04:16.040]  [SPEAKER_25]: You'll be able to use voice data at the same time.
[04:16.040 --> 04:18.460]  [SPEAKER_25]: You'll be able to have more than one phone number for your phone lines.
[04:18.680 --> 04:21.720]  [SPEAKER_25]: You'll be able to send high-speed computer transmissions.
[04:22.180 --> 04:23.020]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah, no kidding.
[04:24.580 --> 04:26.560]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, it's been available for a while.
[04:26.880 --> 04:29.580]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's been here for quite some time.
[04:30.480 --> 04:39.040]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, 29 days ago, Phiber Optik and myself went out on a quest to have ISDN delivered to our homes.
[04:40.040 --> 04:41.520]  [SPEAKER_25]: As is our right.
[04:43.300 --> 04:46.300]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, Fiber's not with us tonight.
[04:46.840 --> 04:48.260]  [SPEAKER_25]: But, I can tell you this.
[04:50.040 --> 04:51.960]  [SPEAKER_25]: He is without ISDN tonight.
[04:54.420 --> 04:57.720]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, I can tell you that I am also without ISDN tonight.
[04:58.680 --> 05:05.940]  [SPEAKER_25]: But, after last week's show, in fact, right after last week's show, I got this phone call that kind of convinced me that they were listening.
[05:06.580 --> 05:14.500]  [SPEAKER_25]: Because, they said, bright and early, Wednesday morning, as the sun lifts its weary head over the horizon...
[05:14.500 --> 05:16.240]  [SPEAKER_25]: This is all a quote.
[05:16.340 --> 05:16.940]  [SPEAKER_25]: This is what they say.
[05:17.040 --> 05:17.700]  [SPEAKER_25]: This is how they talk now.
[05:17.880 --> 05:24.820]  [SPEAKER_25]: As the sun lifts its weary head over the horizon and begins to shine down upon the populace below...
[05:24.820 --> 05:30.620]  [SPEAKER_25]: An ISDN man will come to your house and deliver that which has been denied you.
[05:31.040 --> 05:33.880]  [SPEAKER_25]: Very poetic, but today came.
[05:34.280 --> 05:36.020]  [SPEAKER_25]: Wednesday morning was when it was supposed to be.
[05:36.240 --> 05:37.660]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, guess what?
[05:37.700 --> 05:38.440]  [SPEAKER_25]: They didn't show up.
[05:38.600 --> 05:39.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: They did not show up at all.
[05:39.920 --> 05:42.080]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, 1 o'clock in the afternoon, I called up.
[05:42.700 --> 05:44.320]  [SPEAKER_25]: Actually, I called 611 this time.
[05:44.420 --> 05:48.800]  [SPEAKER_25]: And I said, I'm supposed to have a phone man come to my house.
[05:48.940 --> 05:50.060]  [SPEAKER_25]: They asked what my phone number was.
[05:50.180 --> 05:50.620]  [SPEAKER_25]: I told them.
[05:50.700 --> 05:52.900]  [SPEAKER_25]: They said they had no record of anybody supposedly coming to my house.
[05:52.920 --> 05:55.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: Now, keep in mind, this is the second time that I've been through this.
[05:55.940 --> 06:01.060]  [SPEAKER_25]: Then, when I said it's for ISDN, they said, oh, well, in that case, you're going to have to call the special 800 number.
[06:01.540 --> 06:03.420]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, I called the special 800 number.
[06:03.540 --> 06:05.060]  [SPEAKER_25]: And this person picked up.
[06:05.160 --> 06:07.180]  [SPEAKER_25]: And I told her basically the same thing.
[06:07.840 --> 06:09.500]  [SPEAKER_25]: And she said, well, I don't know why you're calling me.
[06:09.600 --> 06:11.800]  [SPEAKER_25]: This is not really my concern.
[06:11.800 --> 06:12.800]  [SPEAKER_25]: I deal with businesses.
[06:12.800 --> 06:13.720]  [SPEAKER_25]: I don't deal with people.
[06:14.340 --> 06:16.820]  [SPEAKER_25]: And I apologized for being a person.
[06:17.200 --> 06:21.560]  [SPEAKER_25]: And she basically told me to call this other number someplace else.
[06:21.960 --> 06:24.140]  [SPEAKER_25]: Where I got a very tired-sounding person.
[06:24.140 --> 06:27.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: And I apologized for bothering her before I even asked her anything.
[06:27.600 --> 06:30.020]  [SPEAKER_25]: And I basically told her the same story.
[06:30.020 --> 06:36.100]  [SPEAKER_25]: And she said, well, you're going to have to speak to the one person who's in charge of this.
[06:36.680 --> 06:40.020]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, of course, that one person is somebody that I have never spoken to.
[06:40.060 --> 06:42.080]  [SPEAKER_25]: And I cannot reach.
[06:42.560 --> 06:45.640]  [SPEAKER_25]: When I say I, I'm speaking, I'm giving a quote for this person.
[06:45.740 --> 06:46.580]  [SPEAKER_25]: This person has never spoken.
[06:46.660 --> 06:49.480]  [SPEAKER_25]: She's just heard a myth of this person's existence.
[06:49.640 --> 06:50.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: And she says, this is the person.
[06:50.760 --> 06:51.460]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's like the Wizard of Oz.
[06:51.460 --> 06:57.120]  [SPEAKER_25]: So you have to, like, travel across this, this vast wasteland of, of, of technology to get there.
[06:57.360 --> 07:00.840]  [SPEAKER_25]: And then once you get there, maybe you'll actually run into somebody that can help you.
[07:01.820 --> 07:04.640]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, um, she said that she would try to help me anyway.
[07:04.720 --> 07:05.860]  [SPEAKER_25]: And she took down all the information.
[07:05.860 --> 07:06.440]  [SPEAKER_25]: She went away.
[07:06.560 --> 07:09.200]  [SPEAKER_25]: And she came back about 10 minutes later and took down some more information.
[07:09.320 --> 07:09.820]  [SPEAKER_25]: Then went away.
[07:10.000 --> 07:13.160]  [SPEAKER_25]: And about 20 minutes later, I heard the good old NYNEX click.
[07:13.820 --> 07:17.420]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, uh, that usually happens whenever you call NYNEX to complain about anything.
[07:17.420 --> 07:21.800]  [SPEAKER_25]: You get the NYNEX click, usually after 20 minutes on hold, and then you get your dial tone back again.
[07:22.140 --> 07:22.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: Wonderful.
[07:22.980 --> 07:25.300]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, I called the mythical, magical person.
[07:25.520 --> 07:29.500]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, of course, that person was on the phone or away from their desk at this time.
[07:30.160 --> 07:32.080]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, um, I had to leave a message.
[07:32.860 --> 07:34.900]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, later on, the person called back.
[07:35.020 --> 07:36.700]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yes, they actually did call back later on.
[07:36.760 --> 07:39.400]  [SPEAKER_25]: And they said that, uh, there was a miscommunication.
[07:39.540 --> 07:40.660]  [SPEAKER_25]: Now, this is a phone company.
[07:40.760 --> 07:42.060]  [SPEAKER_25]: You know, they cannot communicate.
[07:42.360 --> 07:43.400]  [SPEAKER_25]: They are the phone company.
[07:43.400 --> 07:44.780]  [SPEAKER_25]: They should have communications down.
[07:44.920 --> 07:46.080]  [SPEAKER_25]: But, no, they can't do that.
[07:47.180 --> 07:49.240]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, they said there was a miscommunication.
[07:49.780 --> 07:56.980]  [SPEAKER_25]: And the, uh, the workers that were supposed to come out hadn't received all the information that they needed to go to my place to install the line.
[07:57.600 --> 08:01.080]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, so rather than tell me any of this, they just decided not to show up at all.
[08:01.860 --> 08:05.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: And so, uh, the, the person, uh, said that they would try to reschedule it.
[08:05.700 --> 08:07.720]  [SPEAKER_25]: The earliest they could reschedule it would be next Tuesday.
[08:08.360 --> 08:11.900]  [SPEAKER_25]: And I said, you know, I'd really like it if you tried a little harder than that.
[08:12.420 --> 08:16.160]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, um, he called back later on and said that they'd actually be able to show up on Friday.
[08:16.580 --> 08:17.280]  [SPEAKER_25]: Friday morning.
[08:17.440 --> 08:19.820]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, that's where it stands now on day 29.
[08:20.060 --> 08:23.200]  [SPEAKER_25]: Maybe by day 31, somebody will actually show up.
[08:23.300 --> 08:24.780]  [SPEAKER_25]: He actually gave me two phone numbers today.
[08:24.960 --> 08:26.700]  [SPEAKER_25]: Two phone numbers for ISDN service.
[08:26.900 --> 08:29.420]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, that's further along than I've ever been.
[08:30.320 --> 08:32.580]  [SPEAKER_25]: Really, that's, uh, it's, it's pretty far.
[08:32.720 --> 08:33.220]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's pretty far.
[08:33.240 --> 08:34.180]  [SPEAKER_25]: I've got phone numbers now.
[08:34.240 --> 08:34.880]  [SPEAKER_25]: I've got an appointment.
[08:34.940 --> 08:36.200]  [SPEAKER_25]: I had appointments twice before.
[08:36.200 --> 08:39.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: But now I've got two phone numbers and my third appointment.
[08:39.500 --> 08:41.120]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, I think I'm ahead of fiber optic.
[08:41.300 --> 08:42.540]  [SPEAKER_25]: We'll find out next week for sure.
[08:42.900 --> 08:47.080]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, we've got a guest here with us who has gone even further than, than, than the two of us.
[08:47.220 --> 08:53.280]  [SPEAKER_25]: He has actually spoken to, uh, higher ups and has found out some rather shocking things.
[08:53.340 --> 08:56.960]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, uh, let me introduce Dave here and, uh, tell us what you've been through.
[08:57.260 --> 08:59.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, my prospects aren't as bright as yours.
[08:59.340 --> 09:09.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: I found out today that above the product manager, I went and called, uh, the corporate offices in Westchester only to find out that there is no executive in charge of ISDN at 9x.
[09:10.340 --> 09:16.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: That after, between the product manager and various levels of support, um, there's a director of operations.
[09:16.760 --> 09:25.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, I put a phone call into him in Westchester only to find 20 minutes later after numerous being put on hold and clicks and 9x, 9x.
[09:25.360 --> 09:26.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: You got the clicks too, huh?
[09:26.580 --> 09:26.740]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[09:27.460 --> 09:29.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: Um, that he was in the New York office and no one seemed to tell me this.
[09:29.640 --> 09:34.940]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, I called the New York office, spoke to his direct assistant, and I was told that I would get a response back in 20 minutes.
[09:35.500 --> 09:40.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: Um, it's now, what, 10, 10 after 10.
[09:40.860 --> 09:42.920]  [SPEAKER_23]: I, I didn't get a call back until that's...
[09:42.920 --> 09:43.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: NYNEX minutes.
[09:43.980 --> 09:44.100]  [SPEAKER_23]: No.
[09:44.380 --> 09:46.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: It was 6 o'clock at night and I figured, okay, that's, that's it.
[09:47.160 --> 09:53.700]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, uh, so now I'm, put a phone call in and tomorrow morning I hope to be speaking to the president of 9x.
[09:53.920 --> 09:55.460]  [SPEAKER_25]: The president of 9x.
[09:55.780 --> 09:57.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, and what is that person's name?
[09:57.440 --> 09:57.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: Do you know?
[09:57.920 --> 09:59.280]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh, I think it's Mr. Seidenberg.
[09:59.500 --> 10:01.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: The new guy, Ivan Seidenberg.
[10:01.360 --> 10:05.080]  [SPEAKER_23]: The new guy who was a cable splicer in 66 and rose up to become president of 9x.
[10:05.260 --> 10:05.580]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[10:06.100 --> 10:08.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm thinking maybe he'll remember what it was like when he was, you know, starting out.
[10:08.880 --> 10:13.080]  [SPEAKER_25]: Because he very, may very well be splicing cables again if he doesn't, uh, respond to some of this.
[10:13.540 --> 10:16.080]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, well, good luck, uh, with, with your quest.
[10:16.260 --> 10:19.380]  [SPEAKER_25]: Apparently lots of people are engaged in this quest, uh, throughout the city.
[10:19.740 --> 10:23.460]  [SPEAKER_25]: Of course, our quest is probably the most publicized right now.
[10:23.460 --> 10:27.620]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, doesn't make it any, uh, any higher on the, uh, priority list, though.
[10:29.260 --> 10:31.320]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, the, the search for ISDN continues.
[10:31.440 --> 10:33.020]  [SPEAKER_25]: Other states, of course, this happens much faster.
[10:33.080 --> 10:34.440]  [SPEAKER_25]: You order ISDN service, you get it.
[10:35.320 --> 10:37.180]  [SPEAKER_25]: Once we get it, we'll be able to play with it.
[10:37.280 --> 10:39.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: And then we'll be able to tell you if it's worth getting.
[10:39.640 --> 10:42.620]  [SPEAKER_25]: But that's something, uh, that's something for the future.
[10:43.040 --> 10:43.940]  [SPEAKER_25]: One of these days.
[10:48.370 --> 10:53.610]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days, Mr. Opportunity, gonna be knocking on my door.
[10:53.810 --> 10:57.530]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days, I'll read the writing on the wall.
[10:58.350 --> 11:02.790]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days, I'll be a spectator in an audience.
[11:03.470 --> 11:07.330]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days, I'm gonna run until I fall.
[11:08.190 --> 11:13.050]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days, I'll win the lottery and wake up a millionaire.
[11:13.050 --> 11:17.290]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days, I'm gonna give myself a job.
[11:17.930 --> 11:21.310]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days, they're gonna stop the world.
[11:21.530 --> 11:23.150]  [SPEAKER_21]: And I won't even care.
[11:23.410 --> 11:26.850]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days, I'm gonna finally believe in God.
[11:27.730 --> 11:32.490]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days, I'm gonna grow up to become the president.
[11:32.670 --> 11:36.890]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days, I'll find the woman of my dreams.
[11:37.510 --> 11:42.190]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days, I'm gonna find these truths to be still there.
[11:42.190 --> 11:46.230]  [SPEAKER_21]: But if one of these days I'll blow my brains out on TV.
[11:50.450 --> 11:52.490]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days.
[11:55.350 --> 11:57.410]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days.
[11:59.430 --> 12:04.370]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days I'm gonna get in shape, become an astronaut.
[12:04.770 --> 12:08.570]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days my fears are gonna fall down the stairs.
[12:09.230 --> 12:14.350]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days I'll sell my soul and let them find out what they bought.
[12:14.570 --> 12:17.370]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days I'm gonna shave off and
[12:21.070 --> 12:24.110]  [SPEAKER_21]: learn to play and write myself a song.
[12:24.430 --> 12:27.990]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days I'll take my conscience out to lunch.
[12:28.710 --> 12:32.150]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days I'm gonna buy the plants.
[12:33.950 --> 12:37.810]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days I'll have the guts to play my hunch.
[12:41.750 --> 12:43.750]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of these days.
[14:04.200 --> 14:09.080]  [SPEAKER_25]: You know, I'm told when Cop Shoot Cop put that out, there was a line about NYNEX in there.
[14:09.320 --> 14:11.880]  [SPEAKER_25]: One of these days, NYNEX is going to get the job right.
[14:11.880 --> 14:17.060]  [SPEAKER_25]: But in the interest of radio airplay, they decided to not go with that.
[14:17.280 --> 14:19.440]  [SPEAKER_25]: But see them in concert, I'm sure they'll do it.
[14:20.040 --> 14:23.420]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah, it's 14 minutes after 10 o'clock.
[14:23.640 --> 14:24.820]  [SPEAKER_25]: The program is off the hook.
[14:24.940 --> 14:32.580]  [SPEAKER_25]: And you know, this has been a rather strange week because something happened.
[14:32.580 --> 14:34.560]  [SPEAKER_25]: Actually, it happened late last week.
[14:34.580 --> 14:36.220]  [SPEAKER_25]: And it didn't really happen late last week.
[14:36.240 --> 14:38.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's something that I experienced.
[14:39.040 --> 14:44.400]  [SPEAKER_25]: And it's just kind of weird because it's, for me, the first time this has happened.
[14:44.400 --> 14:46.320]  [SPEAKER_25]: And it's certainly not going to be the last time.
[14:46.800 --> 14:49.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: To give you a little background, there was this...
[14:50.540 --> 14:57.920]  [SPEAKER_25]: This, well, a Internet provider known as The WELL, which I'm sure you're all familiar with because they've been in the news quite a bit recently.
[14:58.900 --> 15:07.620]  [SPEAKER_25]: Way back a few years ago when they were hosts of the Harper's Conference where we debated computer hacking, a lot of us got to know each other.
[15:09.220 --> 15:22.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: And for me, that was the first time, other than through regular BBSs, the first time on the net, that people debated issues, people that you never saw, people that you only knew as a certain name.
[15:22.400 --> 15:30.180]  [SPEAKER_25]: And you got to sort of attach a persona to these user handles, these eight-character names that just popped up on your screen.
[15:30.920 --> 15:41.140]  [SPEAKER_25]: And for years, after that, I've been involved in various debates from everything from fiber optics case to the recent Kevin Mitnick story.
[15:42.180 --> 15:48.420]  [SPEAKER_25]: And there was this one person, in particular, who really annoyed the hell out of me.
[15:48.480 --> 15:52.380]  [SPEAKER_25]: And I'm sure a lot of you know what that's like, especially online.
[15:52.960 --> 16:05.160]  [SPEAKER_25]: This was somebody that, every time, every time I posted something, somewhere, anywhere on the well, guaranteed, he would post something immediately afterwards.
[16:05.320 --> 16:07.200]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's like he had some sort of a manual meter going.
[16:07.460 --> 16:12.740]  [SPEAKER_25]: And he knew exactly when I said something, within five minutes it'd be a reply.
[16:12.960 --> 16:14.660]  [SPEAKER_25]: And I got so annoyed by this.
[16:14.800 --> 16:15.880]  [SPEAKER_25]: Who is this guy anyway?
[16:16.040 --> 16:21.320]  [SPEAKER_25]: Why does he always have to come up with these banal remarks and nitpick to death everything that I say?
[16:21.320 --> 16:23.580]  [SPEAKER_25]: And it really, really, really got annoying.
[16:24.160 --> 16:26.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: But it also got to be something that I expected.
[16:27.180 --> 16:29.420]  [SPEAKER_25]: Something that I was kind of used to.
[16:30.620 --> 16:40.080]  [SPEAKER_25]: And so, last week, I just happened to stumble upon a brand new topic that had been started on the well by this very person.
[16:40.700 --> 16:47.880]  [SPEAKER_25]: Where he announced to the world that he had to set the record straight because he couldn't hide from it any longer.
[16:48.540 --> 16:52.840]  [SPEAKER_25]: But he felt that he only had a short amount of time left.
[16:52.840 --> 16:55.520]  [SPEAKER_25]: He had been suffering from lung cancer, something I had not known.
[16:55.900 --> 17:01.400]  [SPEAKER_25]: And that he had reached the point where he felt that that he really didn't have more than a few weeks.
[17:01.540 --> 17:04.640]  [SPEAKER_25]: And he had to sort of start saying goodbye to people.
[17:04.900 --> 17:07.400]  [SPEAKER_25]: And I was looking at this topic in amazement.
[17:07.520 --> 17:09.180]  [SPEAKER_25]: It had 600 replies to it.
[17:09.180 --> 17:16.880]  [SPEAKER_25]: And I was going through all these replies, seeing how people were saying, you know, I still think you're a jerk.
[17:16.880 --> 17:20.460]  [SPEAKER_25]: I can't stand the things you say, but this isn't fair.
[17:20.620 --> 17:24.060]  [SPEAKER_25]: I want to debate with you for years to come, for decades to come.
[17:24.240 --> 17:27.140]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's just not something that's right.
[17:27.300 --> 17:29.160]  [SPEAKER_25]: And none of us want this.
[17:29.240 --> 17:31.800]  [SPEAKER_25]: And a lot of outpouring of strong emotion.
[17:33.440 --> 17:37.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: And I was very upset by this because I had no idea any of this had happened.
[17:37.960 --> 17:47.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: And of course, towards the end of the topic, I found out that he had, in fact, passed on about a week and a half ago.
[17:47.340 --> 17:50.580]  [SPEAKER_25]: And it was just such a strange feeling, this person that...
[17:50.580 --> 17:54.100]  [SPEAKER_25]: I'm told I met him, but I don't remember meeting him in real life.
[17:54.240 --> 17:56.760]  [SPEAKER_25]: Mostly somebody that I've had contact with online.
[17:58.300 --> 18:00.560]  [SPEAKER_25]: That this person suddenly has vanished.
[18:01.960 --> 18:06.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's a feeling that you're just not used to online.
[18:06.680 --> 18:08.020]  [SPEAKER_25]: You're kind of used to it in person.
[18:08.660 --> 18:12.640]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's weird how you get used to it in person, but online it takes on a whole new meaning.
[18:13.820 --> 18:18.580]  [SPEAKER_25]: So this user ID, it's still there, but the person is no longer there.
[18:19.480 --> 18:21.400]  [SPEAKER_25]: So it was a very disquieting moment.
[18:21.540 --> 18:23.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: The person's name, by the way, is Tom Mandel.
[18:23.340 --> 18:29.660]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, and if you want to go through the well and see some of the heated debates that we've had over the years, I'm sure they're all still there.
[18:30.280 --> 18:43.580]  [SPEAKER_25]: And I just, I wish I had the chance to at least say goodbye, but the Internet is very fleeting sometimes and it doesn't give you any second chances, as I'm sure a lot of us are aware of.
[18:44.200 --> 18:47.780]  [SPEAKER_25]: There was an article about it in last week's Time magazine.
[18:47.780 --> 18:53.120]  [SPEAKER_25]: In fact, it was the article to our readers, because Tom Mandel worked for Time magazine.
[18:53.580 --> 18:59.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: He worked for America Online, I believe, and despite that, he still was a good person.
[18:59.820 --> 19:03.580]  [SPEAKER_25]: And it's something that hit me kind of hard.
[19:03.600 --> 19:08.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: I'm sure it hit a lot of people on the Internet kind of hard, because he was online all the time.
[19:08.360 --> 19:09.560]  [SPEAKER_25]: It wasn't just me that he annoyed.
[19:09.560 --> 19:11.320]  [SPEAKER_25]: He annoyed hundreds of people.
[19:11.940 --> 19:16.940]  [SPEAKER_25]: And that's what a lot of the net is about, just getting people to react, respond.
[19:18.560 --> 19:27.020]  [SPEAKER_25]: And it'll be interesting to see how this is written in the history of the net and how similar things like it transpire in days to come.
[19:27.820 --> 19:29.940]  [SPEAKER_25]: So that's the story there.
[19:30.100 --> 19:31.520]  [SPEAKER_25]: Kind of strange for me.
[19:31.520 --> 19:35.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: I'd like to know if anyone else has had similar types of encounters.
[19:38.560 --> 19:43.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: Speaking of a strange thing, something strange happened in England this past...
[19:43.360 --> 19:44.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: Was it this past week?
[19:44.740 --> 19:45.460]  [SPEAKER_25]: I guess it was.
[19:46.440 --> 19:47.240]  [SPEAKER_25]: Phone day.
[19:47.640 --> 19:49.260]  [SPEAKER_25]: We've talked about phone day before.
[19:50.320 --> 20:04.280]  [SPEAKER_25]: Phone day was this phenomena that occurred where the entire country, the entire country of England, inserted an extra digit before all of their phone numbers.
[20:04.820 --> 20:06.520]  [SPEAKER_25]: So from 2 a.m.
[20:06.620 --> 20:12.040]  [SPEAKER_25]: on Easter Sunday, every single city code had a...
[20:12.040 --> 20:14.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: I believe it was a one placed before it.
[20:15.020 --> 20:20.940]  [SPEAKER_25]: And some cities, including Bristol, Leeds, Leicester, Nottingham, and Sheffield, have entirely new codes.
[20:23.440 --> 20:25.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: And a lot of confusion for a lot of people.
[20:25.820 --> 20:28.780]  [SPEAKER_25]: You think introducing new area codes in this country is strange.
[20:28.820 --> 20:32.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, over there, it was downright traumatic.
[20:33.680 --> 20:51.440]  [SPEAKER_25]: So anyway, according to, I believe this is The Guardian that someone left in my mailbox, the simplest way for callers from outside the UK to deal with the phone day changes is to think of England's well-established international country code 4-4 as becoming 4-4-1.
[20:52.400 --> 20:52.980]  [SPEAKER_25]: That's right.
[20:53.240 --> 20:57.420]  [SPEAKER_25]: I remember when you used to dial 4-4-1 to reach London, but now you dial 4...
[20:57.420 --> 20:59.920]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, then you dialed 4-4-7-1 or 4-4-8-1.
[21:00.000 --> 21:03.500]  [SPEAKER_25]: Now you're going to have to dial 4-4-1-7-1 or 4-4-1-8-1.
[21:04.060 --> 21:04.900]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's getting crazy.
[21:05.620 --> 21:17.880]  [SPEAKER_25]: So to ring the Financial Times in London, I guess that's the paper this came from, a caller outside the UK would first dial the code for an international call, which is usually 0-0, but in our country, it's 0-1-1.
[21:18.520 --> 21:35.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: Follow that with the country code, which is 4-4, then the city code, which is 1 plus the old city code in most cases, for instance, 1-7-1 for London, and then the exchange and switchboard numbers, which in the case of the Financial Times would be 8-7-3-3-000.
[21:35.680 --> 21:44.440]  [SPEAKER_25]: So if you wanted to call the Financial... well, let's say you wanted to call the Financial Times 10 years ago, you would have dialed 0-1-1-4-1...
[21:44.440 --> 21:45.440]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, let me try this again.
[21:45.520 --> 21:48.020]  [SPEAKER_25]: 0-1-1-4-4-1-8-7-3-3-000.
[21:48.260 --> 21:58.460]  [SPEAKER_25]: Last year, you would dial 0-1-1-4-4-7-1-8-7-3-3-000, and now you will dial 0-1-1-4-4-1-7-1-8-7-3-3-3-000.
[21:58.980 --> 22:00.140]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah, it's getting crazy.
[22:05.680 --> 22:14.500]  [SPEAKER_25]: Crystal becomes 1-7-9, Leeds 1-3-2, Leicester 1-6-2, Nottingham 1-5-9, and Sheffield 1-4-2.
[22:14.760 --> 22:17.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: These are not soccer scorers, these are phone codes.
[22:18.520 --> 22:26.420]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, that's pretty much all the news of this week, so we'd like to hear from you as far as what's been going on out there.
[22:27.460 --> 22:30.320]  [SPEAKER_25]: 212-279-3400 is our phone number.
[22:30.420 --> 22:38.780]  [SPEAKER_25]: The program is off the hook, where we talk about the latest in the Internet and the telephone network and all kinds of other fun things.
[22:38.840 --> 22:41.660]  [SPEAKER_25]: You know, there's something wild going on outside in the streets of New York.
[22:41.700 --> 22:44.640]  [SPEAKER_25]: I don't know if anyone's walked around, but what's with the phone booths?
[22:44.640 --> 22:53.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: All the phone booths have these weird advertisements going, these scrolling advertisements like it's on the side of the Herald Square building or something.
[22:54.920 --> 22:57.140]  [SPEAKER_25]: I've never seen anything like it, bright red letters.
[22:57.280 --> 22:59.140]  [SPEAKER_25]: I mean, I've seen these things, but not on phone booths.
[22:59.700 --> 23:04.140]  [SPEAKER_25]: And every single one of these phone booths, of course, now can be hacked in a different way.
[23:04.240 --> 23:08.320]  [SPEAKER_25]: If someone can figure out how to get into those signs, they can change what those signs say rather simply.
[23:08.380 --> 23:09.740]  [SPEAKER_25]: I believe all it takes is a keyboard.
[23:10.240 --> 23:14.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: I'm sure there's a whole committee out there that started right now to figure out just how to do that.
[23:15.480 --> 23:16.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: Caught me by surprise.
[23:16.460 --> 23:23.840]  [SPEAKER_25]: I don't know if this has been going on for some time, but I saw about three of them today, and I hadn't seen one before that, so maybe I was just in the dark or something like that.
[23:24.300 --> 23:29.520]  [SPEAKER_25]: So if anyone's seen anything interesting like that, please give us a call, and we can share it together.
[23:30.840 --> 23:32.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: 212-279-3400.
[23:32.920 --> 23:35.500]  [SPEAKER_25]: Also, one other thing before we go to the phones.
[23:35.720 --> 23:37.180]  [SPEAKER_25]: We talked about Bernie S.
[23:37.540 --> 23:39.140]  [SPEAKER_25]: last week in prison.
[23:40.160 --> 23:44.900]  [SPEAKER_25]: Basically, he was arrested, put in prison, $100,000 bail for possession of two red boxes.
[23:45.880 --> 23:47.060]  [SPEAKER_25]: This is in Philadelphia.
[23:47.060 --> 24:00.560]  [SPEAKER_25]: Last week, we told you how we visited him a week ago yesterday, how those charges have been dropped, new charges put in their place for having the software necessary to modify cellular phones.
[24:00.680 --> 24:04.460]  [SPEAKER_25]: Mind you, not modifying cellular phones, having the software to do it.
[24:04.560 --> 24:05.300]  [SPEAKER_25]: That was the crime.
[24:05.740 --> 24:07.940]  [SPEAKER_25]: Federal charges, not local charges.
[24:07.940 --> 24:13.100]  [SPEAKER_25]: And as far as we knew, the bail was being held in exactly the same amount, $100,000.
[24:13.560 --> 24:14.900]  [SPEAKER_25]: We have not heard from Bernie S.
[24:15.080 --> 24:15.560]  [SPEAKER_25]: since then.
[24:15.680 --> 24:19.120]  [SPEAKER_25]: We tried to reach him unsuccessfully, or he tried to reach us unsuccessfully last week.
[24:19.320 --> 24:20.840]  [SPEAKER_25]: Maybe we'll get through to him this week.
[24:21.880 --> 24:24.720]  [SPEAKER_25]: I tried to call the prison that he was in today.
[24:24.720 --> 24:27.300]  [SPEAKER_25]: They refused to tell me if he was still there.
[24:27.440 --> 24:29.180]  [SPEAKER_25]: They just would not give that information out.
[24:29.240 --> 24:30.440]  [SPEAKER_25]: So I don't know what's going on.
[24:31.180 --> 24:34.500]  [SPEAKER_25]: We'll have to just play this one by ear and see what's happening.
[24:35.440 --> 24:39.780]  [SPEAKER_25]: And if we're able to get an address for people to write to him at, that's something we'll certainly give out.
[24:39.780 --> 24:41.620]  [SPEAKER_25]: 212-279-3400.
[24:41.760 --> 24:42.100]  [SPEAKER_25]: Good evening.
[24:42.240 --> 24:42.920]  [SPEAKER_25]: You're on the air.
[24:43.620 --> 24:44.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: Ah, terrific.
[24:44.700 --> 24:49.120]  [SPEAKER_19]: I've got a couple of questions I hope you can answer for me, some of them about the Internet.
[24:49.780 --> 24:50.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'll try.
[24:50.200 --> 24:57.420]  [SPEAKER_19]: First of all, can you recommend any good software that would give me or let me access a slip or a PPP account for Windows?
[24:58.260 --> 25:08.460]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, well, for Windows, there's, uh, uh, I hate Windows myself, but, um, there's, there's a basic package that most systems have.
[25:08.840 --> 25:10.640]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, I believe it's called Winsock.
[25:10.940 --> 25:13.040]  [SPEAKER_25]: And a lot of systems use that.
[25:13.720 --> 25:16.760]  [SPEAKER_25]: And if you're into Windows, it should, it should work for you.
[25:17.020 --> 25:19.180]  [SPEAKER_25]: And you can get it for free from most systems.
[25:19.620 --> 25:24.520]  [SPEAKER_25]: You don't have to go out and, and, and, you know, once, once you sign up for a system, they supply you with the software.
[25:24.980 --> 25:25.420]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[25:25.660 --> 25:33.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: But you think this would be better than one of the commercial packages, uh, let's say from, uh, Winfax, from Delrina, Winfax Pro, or, you know, one of those other people?
[25:34.060 --> 25:37.460]  [SPEAKER_25]: You're better off working with a local Internet provider who will help you out.
[25:37.580 --> 25:41.780]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah, not just buying something somewhere that, uh, doesn't work and no one will help you once it doesn't.
[25:42.060 --> 25:42.500]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[25:43.000 --> 25:45.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, what does ISDN stand for?
[25:46.060 --> 25:47.200]  [SPEAKER_25]: Um, what is it again?
[25:47.940 --> 25:48.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: ISDN?
[25:49.780 --> 25:53.100]  [SPEAKER_25]: Integrated Service, Services Digital Network.
[25:53.100 --> 25:56.420]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah, the reason I can never remember is because it doesn't really flow very well.
[25:56.960 --> 25:58.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: Integrated, yeah, it still does nothing for me.
[25:59.100 --> 25:59.460]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[25:59.800 --> 26:03.760]  [SPEAKER_19]: And now what is ISDN going to do for us that, let's say, parts can't?
[26:03.960 --> 26:07.300]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, it's going to actually revolutionize the way phones work.
[26:07.560 --> 26:10.240]  [SPEAKER_25]: Um, you'll be able to do many things at once.
[26:10.300 --> 26:21.200]  [SPEAKER_25]: You'll be able to have a computer, for instance, set up at all times in your home, uh, at a very high speed without having to, to get all this extra equipment that you would need.
[26:21.280 --> 26:26.780]  [SPEAKER_25]: Now, without having to have a dedicated phone line, you'll be able to have faxes sent at the same time that you're on the phone.
[26:27.360 --> 26:28.320]  [SPEAKER_25]: All kinds of things.
[26:28.480 --> 26:34.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: Basically, just imagine all the communications technologies tied together into one neat little package.
[26:34.680 --> 26:36.420]  [SPEAKER_25]: That's kind of what they're thinking.
[26:36.760 --> 26:37.200]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay.
[26:37.200 --> 26:41.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: We haven't yet seen it here because, uh, well, certain things are kind of slow to be implemented.
[26:41.760 --> 26:44.900]  [SPEAKER_25]: But that's, you know, in a nutshell, that's what it's supposed to be all about.
[26:45.200 --> 26:45.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: Terrific.
[26:45.800 --> 26:47.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: Two last ones, and I'll make these quick.
[26:47.380 --> 26:47.460]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[26:47.460 --> 26:48.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: I know you've got a lot of other callers.
[26:48.620 --> 26:52.700]  [SPEAKER_19]: I saw an ad for some modems that were faster than 28.8.
[26:52.960 --> 26:54.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: Then they seemed to disappear.
[26:54.680 --> 26:59.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm wondering, were these things pulled back because of technical reasons for the FCC or what?
[26:59.300 --> 27:02.460]  [SPEAKER_19]: And the last one is, what is the Gutenberg Project?
[27:03.180 --> 27:05.380]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, I can't help you with the Gutenberg Project.
[27:05.860 --> 27:07.440]  [SPEAKER_25]: Anyone here know about the Gutenberg Project?
[27:08.040 --> 27:09.960]  [SPEAKER_25]: No, we're drawing blanks on that all around.
[27:10.080 --> 27:21.440]  [SPEAKER_25]: But as far as the modems, I do know that, um, that with compression, uh, and, and various, uh, trickery like that, uh, speeds of higher than 28.8, uh, can be, can be advertised.
[27:21.880 --> 27:27.200]  [SPEAKER_25]: I've never seen a modem at higher than 28.8, though, uh, as, as the base speed.
[27:28.320 --> 27:34.780]  [SPEAKER_25]: I've, I've never actually seen, I mean, the next step would probably be 56K, and that's, uh, you know, that requires a dedicated line of sorts.
[27:35.780 --> 27:35.900]  [SPEAKER_25]: Mm-hmm.
[27:35.900 --> 27:38.960]  [SPEAKER_25]: So if you, if you have further information on that, forward it, uh, forward it over.
[27:39.020 --> 27:41.640]  [SPEAKER_25]: I'd like to see a copy of the ad so I, I could know exactly what to look into.
[27:42.360 --> 27:46.180]  [SPEAKER_19]: No, if I, uh, if I had it, believe me, I would, you know, that wouldn't have been the problem.
[27:46.340 --> 27:52.200]  [SPEAKER_19]: But, uh, like I said, I just saw it in one, uh, dealer magazine, and then I don't see the ad anymore.
[27:52.200 --> 27:54.100]  [SPEAKER_25]: It probably was a creative use of words.
[27:54.240 --> 27:55.160]  [SPEAKER_25]: That's, that's the only thing I can think of.
[27:55.160 --> 27:57.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: No, no, no, there was actually some hard numbers there.
[27:57.280 --> 28:01.180]  [SPEAKER_19]: It wasn't, uh, you know, they said the new, uh, standard is here.
[28:01.180 --> 28:04.160]  [SPEAKER_19]: I can't remember who the heck did it, because I was saying to myself, well, shoot.
[28:04.400 --> 28:10.280]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, keep in mind, it's only a standard if more than one, more than one side uses it at the same time.
[28:10.600 --> 28:11.780]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, well, that I know.
[28:12.300 --> 28:13.440]  [SPEAKER_19]: All right, thanks a lot.
[28:13.560 --> 28:14.180]  [SPEAKER_25]: All right, take care.
[28:14.360 --> 28:14.540]  [SPEAKER_19]: Bye-bye.
[28:15.460 --> 28:16.880]  [SPEAKER_25]: 212-279-3400.
[28:19.460 --> 28:20.480]  [SPEAKER_25]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[28:20.480 --> 28:21.740]  [SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, I have a question for you.
[28:21.840 --> 28:31.500]  [SPEAKER_31]: I have a problem with my phone, and my, uh, radio is coming through, and NYNEX told me to call the FCC, because I couldn't put the presser on, et cetera, et cetera.
[28:31.940 --> 28:33.620]  [SPEAKER_31]: Any advice am I going to be able to give me?
[28:34.280 --> 28:37.440]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, well, now, are you receiving interference from a radio station?
[28:37.600 --> 28:43.560]  [SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, like 1230 AM, something like that, you know, with high-end frequency, like a, you know, kind of weird AM station.
[28:43.560 --> 28:46.020]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, you're getting, are you near an AM transmitter?
[28:46.400 --> 29:00.380]  [SPEAKER_31]: No, it's definitely, it's not, I'm not really, I'm in Brooklyn, Williamsburg, and, uh, it's definitely not, um, it's caused, I guess, by, there's two lines being split into, you know, one line being split into two, but usually there's a problem when you have the mobile phone,
[29:00.500 --> 29:01.280]  [SPEAKER_31]: you know, the...
[29:01.280 --> 29:05.140]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, let me ask you this, uh, do you know where the phone line comes into your place?
[29:05.920 --> 29:06.880]  [SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, right side of my window.
[29:07.140 --> 29:11.380]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, where, where the phone company actually goes up to, you know, where that, where that point is?
[29:11.380 --> 29:14.660]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, can you plug a phone into that particular point?
[29:15.720 --> 29:21.260]  [SPEAKER_31]: Um, I can't see it because it's, like, four stories below me and it's, like, in a seal-off area.
[29:21.620 --> 29:29.500]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, what you need to do is, um, is somehow get access to that, plug a phone into that area, see if you have the same problem there.
[29:29.500 --> 29:33.660]  [SPEAKER_25]: If you do, it's definitely the phone company's problem and they have to deal with it.
[29:33.700 --> 29:37.040]  [SPEAKER_25]: If it's something that's taking place because of the wiring inside your house...
[29:37.040 --> 29:41.140]  [SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, they, they try to rewire, you know, a new line from the, uh, from the CEO.
[29:41.140 --> 29:43.120]  [SPEAKER_31]: No, and they would, they said they didn't solve the problem.
[29:43.680 --> 29:46.020]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, is yours the only phone line that's getting this problem?
[29:46.280 --> 29:53.460]  [SPEAKER_31]: No, they have repeated, uh, other problems with other phones in the area, but they said it's not going to take, like, two or three years until they get the fiber optics to be laid down.
[29:53.580 --> 29:54.460]  [SPEAKER_31]: But I don't believe that.
[29:54.460 --> 29:59.320]  [SPEAKER_31]: But, but, but what bothered me was I had, their, their, their response was actually called the FCC by the radio station.
[29:59.800 --> 30:03.780]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, I mean, that's, it's not, it's not your responsibility to do their work for them.
[30:04.460 --> 30:04.680]  Yeah.
[30:04.980 --> 30:06.240]  [SPEAKER_25]: I mean, it's, it's their problem.
[30:06.400 --> 30:13.520]  [SPEAKER_25]: And what I would do is get together with a bunch of other people and complain about the same thing and make it public because this is something the phone company has to deal with.
[30:14.480 --> 30:18.240]  [SPEAKER_25]: Especially if it's, if it's taking place with their wiring, which it sounds like it is if other people have their phone.
[30:18.260 --> 30:20.940]  [SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, I mean, it's not like, because if it's my phone race, it's their wiring.
[30:21.080 --> 30:25.000]  [SPEAKER_31]: They have, they refuse to send the money to put extra wiring in to my, uh, my neighborhood.
[30:25.340 --> 30:25.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh-huh.
[30:25.720 --> 30:28.760]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, then, uh, definitely contact the Public Service Commission.
[30:28.940 --> 30:32.200]  [SPEAKER_25]: You'll know they didn't tell you to call them, but those are the people I would suggest you call.
[30:32.320 --> 30:33.740]  [SPEAKER_25]: The number's in the front of your phone book.
[30:34.200 --> 30:37.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: Public Service Commission, don't even stop at the President's hotline, or helpline, rather.
[30:48.240 --> 30:48.880]  [SPEAKER_25]: All right, great.
[30:49.180 --> 30:49.420]  [SPEAKER_25]: All right?
[30:49.560 --> 30:49.980]  [SPEAKER_25]: Thanks a lot.
[30:50.120 --> 30:50.580]  [SPEAKER_25]: All right, take care.
[30:51.920 --> 30:52.880]  [SPEAKER_25]: That happens a lot.
[30:53.060 --> 30:57.660]  [SPEAKER_25]: You think that you, you're the only person with these weird problems, but there are actually quite a few people out there.
[30:57.720 --> 31:04.920]  [SPEAKER_25]: For instance, uh, you get these weird calls on your phone bill that you know you didn't make, but they're on your phone bill.
[31:05.020 --> 31:06.040]  [SPEAKER_25]: They were made from your phone line.
[31:06.140 --> 31:08.440]  [SPEAKER_25]: That means that someone had to do it from your house.
[31:08.440 --> 31:10.220]  [SPEAKER_25]: You're guilty, even though you live by yourself.
[31:10.380 --> 31:11.240]  [SPEAKER_25]: Somehow you did this.
[31:11.460 --> 31:13.100]  [SPEAKER_25]: That's what the phone company has you believing.
[31:13.840 --> 31:16.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: But, uh, in actuality, this happens all the time.
[31:16.680 --> 31:18.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: It happens in many different ways.
[31:18.480 --> 31:19.920]  [SPEAKER_25]: The phone company crosses wires.
[31:20.100 --> 31:22.940]  [SPEAKER_25]: The phone line shows up in two different houses at the same time.
[31:23.260 --> 31:27.860]  [SPEAKER_25]: A linesman climbs up on a telephone pole and decides to go crazy with some 900 numbers.
[31:28.160 --> 31:34.020]  [SPEAKER_25]: Someone goes into the basement of your apartment building and plugs into the panel of where all the phone lines come in.
[31:34.080 --> 31:35.960]  [SPEAKER_25]: Phone lines go through other people's homes sometimes.
[31:36.600 --> 31:39.080]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's very, very easy to do this.
[31:39.300 --> 31:42.160]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's very easy for anything to go wrong with your phone line.
[31:42.260 --> 31:43.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: Phone lines are not very secure.
[31:43.600 --> 31:47.760]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, if you think something is strange on your phone line, it probably is.
[31:48.320 --> 31:51.780]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, uh, don't assume that you're wrong just because the phone company tells you you are.
[31:52.140 --> 31:52.720]  [SPEAKER_25]: Good evening.
[31:52.840 --> 31:53.180]  [SPEAKER_25]: You're on the air.
[31:54.160 --> 31:54.400]  [SPEAKER_32]: What?
[31:54.620 --> 31:55.220]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yes, go ahead.
[31:55.620 --> 31:58.220]  [SPEAKER_32]: Oh, uh, well, I just found something very interesting.
[31:58.400 --> 32:00.320]  [SPEAKER_32]: I posted to Alt.2600.
[32:00.320 --> 32:03.520]  [SPEAKER_32]: And by the way, uh, congratulations on getting 2600.com up.
[32:03.760 --> 32:04.740]  [SPEAKER_25]: Oh, yeah, thank you.
[32:04.800 --> 32:05.280]  [SPEAKER_25]: Thank you very much.
[32:05.460 --> 32:10.580]  [SPEAKER_32]: Uh, anyway, um, and I got this email from this guy, uh, Cracker...
[32:10.580 --> 32:12.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah, Cracker, Cracker Buster, right.
[32:12.740 --> 32:14.220]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, let me explain what that's all about.
[32:14.520 --> 32:30.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: Um, uh, everybody who posted on the Alt.2600 USENET News Group, and this is about the second or third time this has happened, received mail back from this fake email address called Cracker Buster at, uh, what is it, polizei.de, which I think is the German word for police,
[32:30.480 --> 32:32.300]  [SPEAKER_25]: and DE, of course, means that it was in Germany.
[32:32.520 --> 32:33.640]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, that's not a real site.
[32:33.640 --> 32:35.420]  [SPEAKER_25]: It was a forged email address.
[32:35.720 --> 32:43.840]  [SPEAKER_25]: What apparently happened was someone was, was running some kind of an automated process on our favorite system, which is, guess what, NetCom.
[32:44.480 --> 32:53.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yes, NetCom once again has, uh, has allowed its system to be, uh, accessed by people that, uh, don't have any respect for the net.
[32:53.740 --> 33:04.080]  [SPEAKER_25]: And they sent email to, um, back to the person that posted the message to that person, person, system administrator, and, uh, also to me three times, which is kind of funny.
[33:04.620 --> 33:12.160]  [SPEAKER_25]: We wound up, uh, getting, I think, uh, 15,000 messages in, uh, in 24 hours, which was, was interesting to see all those messages pile in.
[33:12.240 --> 33:14.980]  [SPEAKER_25]: It was the first real test of our, uh, 2600.com system.
[33:15.420 --> 33:16.800]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, uh, it handled it very well.
[33:16.880 --> 33:18.620]  [SPEAKER_25]: They were very easy to get rid of very quickly.
[33:18.960 --> 33:24.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: So it, it didn't cause much of a problem, but it certainly caused a, uh, a lot of discussion on the net.
[33:24.880 --> 33:41.500]  [SPEAKER_25]: Um, what I, what I basically suggest people do is contact NetCom, contact root at NetCom, admin at NetCom, postmaster at NetCom, call NetCom there, I think in San Jose, California, area code 408, I don't know the rest of the number, and, uh, complain and do what you,
[33:41.540 --> 33:44.720]  [SPEAKER_25]: whatever you have to do to see that NetCom does not keep disrupting the net.
[33:44.840 --> 33:46.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: Because that's, that's where I really place the blame.
[33:46.460 --> 33:49.800]  [SPEAKER_25]: People are able to do this so easily, and it always comes from NetCom.
[33:49.980 --> 33:51.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: Obviously, NetCom is the problem.
[33:51.340 --> 34:00.500]  [SPEAKER_25]: Um, unlike the well, unlike panics, unlike the, the decent systems that are around that explain what the problems are, what the insecurities are, NetCom never says anything.
[34:00.680 --> 34:02.700]  [SPEAKER_25]: They are completely silent on all these issues.
[34:02.900 --> 34:07.220]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, we've, we've constantly been badgering them to, uh, to tell us what's going on.
[34:07.360 --> 34:09.240]  [SPEAKER_25]: How do people get access to your system like this?
[34:09.320 --> 34:10.440]  [SPEAKER_25]: What are you doing to prevent it?
[34:11.040 --> 34:18.180]  [SPEAKER_25]: Instead, they come up with these high and, and, and mighty, uh, statements about how they helped to capture, uh, Kevin Mitnick and keep the Internet safe for, uh, for everybody.
[34:18.680 --> 34:20.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, which is, of course, complete nonsense.
[34:21.000 --> 34:23.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, uh, oops, I turned up the wrong, uh, volume.
[34:23.440 --> 34:23.760]  [SPEAKER_25]: Are you still there?
[34:24.120 --> 34:24.240]  Yeah.
[34:24.440 --> 34:25.880]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, so does that make sense to you?
[34:26.020 --> 34:26.480]  [SPEAKER_32]: Yeah, okay.
[34:26.800 --> 34:29.560]  [SPEAKER_25]: All right, so, uh, don't worry, don't, uh, panic or anything like that.
[34:29.640 --> 34:32.000]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's not the, uh, German police out to get you or anything like that.
[34:32.520 --> 34:36.500]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, that certainly caused a lot of, uh, a lot of panic, I guess.
[34:37.040 --> 34:49.740]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, what's particularly funny is that, um, uh, it's, it's, it's made the traffic on all 2600, I think, triple, which, if the person's intent was to, was to stop traffic or, or make people afraid, it had the exact opposite effect.
[34:50.120 --> 34:53.100]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, of course, now, uh, more people are flocking to that news group than ever.
[34:53.760 --> 34:56.860]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, um, that's something that, uh, I guess people need to know about.
[34:57.100 --> 35:03.860]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, uh, just delete the message and send mail to, uh, to, uh, netcom and complain and find out what's going on.
[35:04.600 --> 35:06.040]  [SPEAKER_25]: 212-279-3400.
[35:06.360 --> 35:07.060]  [SPEAKER_25]: Good evening, you're on.
[35:08.400 --> 35:09.000]  [SPEAKER_25]: Go ahead.
[35:09.600 --> 35:12.280]  [SPEAKER_32]: Uh, yeah, um...
[35:13.080 --> 35:18.420]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, well, I imagine, uh, you need to get your wire fixed on your phone, and, uh, maybe a trip to RadioShack is in order.
[35:18.520 --> 35:19.140]  [SPEAKER_25]: Good evening, you're on.
[35:19.860 --> 35:20.220]  [SPEAKER_25]: Oh?
[35:20.420 --> 35:21.040]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yes, go ahead.
[35:21.260 --> 35:21.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hi, how you doing?
[35:21.980 --> 35:22.800]  [SPEAKER_25]: I'm fine, how are you?
[35:23.200 --> 35:24.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, not much, actually.
[35:24.540 --> 35:33.980]  [SPEAKER_18]: I was wondering, um, I don't know how much of, you know, Mac folks you guys have done at the happy little offices of 2600, Inc., um, but they're in the May issue of Mac User.
[35:34.100 --> 35:35.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's an article about ISDN.
[35:35.820 --> 35:36.180]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay.
[35:36.920 --> 35:47.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: And they seem to really, at least the person writing the article named Shelly Brisbane seems to, uh, think that NYNEX is all, uh, well, happy and jolly as far as their ISDN installations.
[35:48.160 --> 35:50.660]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, does this person live anywhere near NYNEX territory?
[35:50.880 --> 35:51.380]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know.
[35:51.500 --> 36:06.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: It doesn't really say where she lives, but, um, in the subheading ramping up to the fast track, she says about how, quote, veterans of 40 ISDN installations give Pacific Bell and NYNEX high marks for the work they're doing with ISDN.
[36:07.300 --> 36:07.780]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah.
[36:08.060 --> 36:13.000]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, uh, it just goes to show how, uh, you know, any, any slant on the news can make it out there.
[36:13.120 --> 36:21.420]  [SPEAKER_25]: But I can tell you, ask anybody that has dealt with NYNEX, and I mean service providers, Internet service providers, uh, businesses, residences.
[36:22.000 --> 36:25.240]  [SPEAKER_25]: This is a company that clearly does not know what it is doing.
[36:25.240 --> 36:31.900]  [SPEAKER_25]: They, they miss appointments, they lose records, they, they foul up, uh, phone, uh, service beyond comprehension.
[36:32.760 --> 36:36.540]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, it's, it's almost like there's a faction of NYNEX that's working against NYNEX.
[36:37.120 --> 36:43.100]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, uh, maybe one day they'll identify themselves, but right now I just would have to say it's, it's too bad there, there is no competition.
[36:43.100 --> 36:48.820]  [SPEAKER_25]: By the way, you may have seen an ad in, uh, in some newspapers, uh, from AT&T, full page ad.
[36:49.040 --> 36:52.740]  [SPEAKER_25]: There would be one clear winner if there was a choice in local phone service.
[36:52.960 --> 36:53.380]  [SPEAKER_25]: You.
[36:53.900 --> 37:01.520]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, um, they, they go on to talk about how long distance prices have gone down, a dramatic 66% from 1984 to 1994 because of competition.
[37:01.860 --> 37:05.800]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's kind of funny to see them, uh, heralding, uh, competition in the long distance market.
[37:05.860 --> 37:06.740]  [SPEAKER_25]: This is AT&T.
[37:06.840 --> 37:08.860]  [SPEAKER_25]: Of course, they never wanted competition in the first place.
[37:09.000 --> 37:09.420]  [SPEAKER_25]: Right, right.
[37:09.620 --> 37:14.420]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, they published this, uh, Telephone Consumers Bill of Rights, which is kind of, kind of quaint.
[37:14.540 --> 37:29.240]  [SPEAKER_25]: We, the people, believe in the right to have a real choice of local phone companies, keep our current phone numbers even if we switch local phone companies, make a call without dialing extra numbers even if we switch local phone companies, eliminate unfair charges paid to local phone companies,
[37:29.320 --> 37:35.840]  [SPEAKER_25]: and be sure the government requires local telephone monopolies not to interfere with real and fair competition.
[37:36.340 --> 37:36.940]  [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah, right.
[37:37.100 --> 37:43.660]  [SPEAKER_25]: And they, they say, they say to send a, a free personalized telegram to the chairman of the New York Public Service Commission.
[37:43.660 --> 37:48.080]  [SPEAKER_25]: I guess you can pretty much send a free personalized telegram to them on any subject.
[37:48.220 --> 37:50.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: I'm not sure about that, but, uh, you can certainly talk to these people.
[37:50.800 --> 37:53.700]  [SPEAKER_25]: Call 1-800-225-5188.
[37:53.980 --> 37:56.280]  [SPEAKER_25]: If it's free and personalized, I guess you can say whatever you want.
[37:56.520 --> 38:06.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: But they're encouraging people to, um, uh, to support the, uh, Telephone Consumers Bill of Rights, uh, which is something that AT&T appears to have come up with.
[38:07.140 --> 38:15.220]  [SPEAKER_25]: Um, I can't really say, follow AT&T and trust everything that they say, but we certainly do need competition on the local level.
[38:15.460 --> 38:18.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: And there's a, uh, company that's out of, uh, New Jersey, I think.
[38:18.640 --> 38:19.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: They're called IDT.
[38:19.860 --> 38:20.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh-huh.
[38:20.180 --> 38:26.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: And they're starting to advertise that they're the first long-distance provider to actually offer free Internet access with every account.
[38:27.060 --> 38:28.120]  [SPEAKER_25]: Free Internet access.
[38:28.220 --> 38:30.780]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, I'd like to see what kind of, uh, free Internet access they're talking about.
[38:30.960 --> 38:31.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's a number here.
[38:31.700 --> 38:33.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: I can give it to you if you actually want to give them a call.
[38:33.180 --> 38:33.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: Go ahead.
[38:33.460 --> 38:36.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's area code 201-928-1000.
[38:37.860 --> 38:39.980]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, 201-928-1000?
[38:40.200 --> 38:40.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yep, that's them.
[38:41.360 --> 38:41.700]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay.
[38:42.040 --> 38:43.020]  [SPEAKER_25]: We'll check that out.
[38:43.220 --> 38:46.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, and I've really enjoyed the, uh, the whole quest for ISDN, you know.
[38:47.080 --> 38:49.180]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, you'll enjoy it a lot more when we finally get there.
[38:49.940 --> 38:52.260]  [SPEAKER_25]: We'll see what, uh, what ISDN actually does.
[38:52.460 --> 38:52.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: Alrighty.
[38:52.940 --> 38:53.540]  [SPEAKER_25]: Thanks for calling.
[38:53.660 --> 38:54.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yep, take care.
[38:54.180 --> 38:54.380]  [SPEAKER_25]: Bye-bye.
[38:55.660 --> 38:57.160]  [SPEAKER_25]: 212-279-3400.
[38:57.600 --> 38:58.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: Good evening, you're on.
[38:59.240 --> 38:59.600]  Oh.
[39:00.040 --> 39:00.940]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yes, go ahead.
[39:01.180 --> 39:01.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is it anyone?
[39:01.960 --> 39:02.420]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh-huh.
[39:02.660 --> 39:03.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, great.
[39:03.460 --> 39:05.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, Emmanuel, I just have a quick question.
[39:05.420 --> 39:13.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: A number of months ago, you had a guest on, uh, whose name was Brock, and he was discussing, uh, a publication called Interactive Week.
[39:13.340 --> 39:14.840]  [SPEAKER_25]: That's, uh, Brock Meeks, yes.
[39:14.980 --> 39:16.220]  [SPEAKER_25]: Reporter from Washington, D.C.
[39:16.540 --> 39:16.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Great.
[39:16.960 --> 39:21.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: I, I, do you have any idea how I can get information on how to subscribe or, or get any...
[39:21.220 --> 39:22.320]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, I'll give you a Brock's email.
[39:22.540 --> 39:28.940]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's, uh, Brock, B-R-O-C-K, at, uh, well.com.
[39:30.540 --> 39:31.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, I don't have a computer.
[39:31.960 --> 39:35.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is there a, is there a number or an address where I could contact him?
[39:35.280 --> 39:37.980]  [SPEAKER_25]: Um, I don't have one off the top of my head.
[39:38.500 --> 39:38.840]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay.
[39:39.160 --> 39:40.200]  [SPEAKER_25]: Wait, uh, do you have one?
[39:40.440 --> 39:40.620]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah.
[39:41.060 --> 39:43.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's go ahead and contact Ziff Publications in New York.
[39:43.320 --> 39:44.200]  [SPEAKER_25]: Ziff Public, speak up.
[39:44.600 --> 39:46.620]  [SPEAKER_23]: Just contact Ziff Publications in New York.
[39:46.720 --> 39:47.300]  [SPEAKER_23]: They're in the phone book.
[39:47.420 --> 39:48.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: They're at One Park Avenue.
[39:48.480 --> 39:51.760]  [SPEAKER_23]: They publish Interactive Week, and they give you information on how to subscribe to it.
[39:51.920 --> 39:52.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, I appreciate it.
[39:52.980 --> 39:53.240]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay.
[39:53.420 --> 39:53.840]  [SPEAKER_25]: Thanks again.
[39:53.840 --> 39:54.280]  [SPEAKER_25]: Good luck.
[39:55.280 --> 39:56.320]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, thanks for that info.
[39:57.260 --> 39:59.240]  [SPEAKER_25]: 212-279-3400 is our phone number.
[39:59.820 --> 40:00.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: Good evening.
[40:00.480 --> 40:01.000]  [SPEAKER_25]: You're on Off The Hook.
[40:01.180 --> 40:01.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, Guy.
[40:01.800 --> 40:02.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: How are you doing?
[40:02.340 --> 40:02.580]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay.
[40:03.040 --> 40:08.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, listen, I wanted to ask you about, uh, the, uh, news capabilities of Internet providers.
[40:09.320 --> 40:11.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, I've really wound up on a wall.
[40:11.700 --> 40:12.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Some people are saying seven days.
[40:13.060 --> 40:14.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Some people are saying three to four.
[40:14.760 --> 40:21.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think a lot of it's due to the fact that, unfortunately, um, you know, the disk base is limited and the news groups are growing unlimited.
[40:21.540 --> 40:24.660]  [SPEAKER_25]: What, what you're asking is how long is, uh, is news stored?
[40:24.960 --> 40:27.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, from you, I mean, it seems like it's a week on most good systems.
[40:27.840 --> 40:29.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Some people are scratching down to three to four days.
[40:29.800 --> 40:31.000]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah, you know, it's, uh...
[40:31.000 --> 40:31.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: So they have more?
[40:32.560 --> 40:37.000]  [SPEAKER_25]: I, I don't know who, who, who, I think the bigger systems, obviously, would store it longer.
[40:37.420 --> 40:40.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, for American Online, I think, keeps it for a couple, or for at least a month.
[40:40.500 --> 40:41.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: They used to keep it for a couple months, now they keep it a month.
[40:41.840 --> 40:43.180]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, there's a flip side to that.
[40:43.280 --> 40:45.820]  [SPEAKER_25]: AOL seems to also get it a month later than anybody else.
[40:46.160 --> 40:46.600]  [SPEAKER_25]: That's true, too.
[40:46.600 --> 40:57.700]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, the reason for that, uh, the reason I learned about that was once when I was mail-bombed, and I, I was getting, uh, uh, actually I was being mail-bombed from all these people that thought I was, uh, I was a white supremacist, uh, because someone posted this message.
[40:57.780 --> 40:58.280]  [SPEAKER_25]: That's why.
[40:58.900 --> 41:11.380]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, no, it's because someone posted a message, uh, saying all kinds of, of horrible racial things, um, with my name somehow attached to it, and of course I was getting mail from all over the place, and I was able to trace how the net actually, um, responded.
[41:11.580 --> 41:23.880]  [SPEAKER_25]: First it was people in New York, then it was people throughout, uh, the country, then it was over in Germany and, and, and Europe, uh, then it was, um, Asia and Australia, and, uh, then about a week after it all died down, AOL started pouring in.
[41:24.540 --> 41:27.060]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, uh, that, that told me something that...
[41:27.060 --> 41:28.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: I didn't know you guys had a studio audience.
[41:28.660 --> 41:32.840]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, yeah, we have a little, uh, laugh track that we, we press every now, and I guess I'm pressing it a little too much.
[41:32.980 --> 41:35.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, two quick comments about IDT and IOL.
[41:35.880 --> 41:37.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's, uh, IDT is an interesting company.
[41:37.380 --> 41:39.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: They used to provide callback service.
[41:39.640 --> 41:41.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: You'd probably be interested in that for international callers.
[41:41.860 --> 41:46.780]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, is that, is that the company where you would call from, uh, from, say, England or France or something like that?
[41:46.780 --> 41:49.900]  [SPEAKER_25]: You'd ring it once and then it would call you back with an American dial tone?
[41:50.060 --> 41:53.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, because, uh, you would be charged at outrageous rates in some countries for...
[41:53.400 --> 41:53.780]  [SPEAKER_25]: That's right.
[41:53.940 --> 41:54.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: ...national calls.
[41:54.660 --> 41:56.960]  [SPEAKER_25]: So they're now offering, uh, Internet access.
[41:57.140 --> 42:00.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: But it's free in so far as if you buy long distance from them.
[42:00.820 --> 42:03.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: So if you buy long distance from them, become their customer.
[42:03.600 --> 42:07.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: And they built through LDDS, which I think is the fourth largest, uh, long distance company.
[42:07.900 --> 42:08.440]  [SPEAKER_25]: That's true.
[42:08.500 --> 42:12.620]  [SPEAKER_25]: And they, they, they own, uh, Metro Media now, which, uh, used to be ITT.
[42:12.840 --> 42:13.860]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah, they're, they're getting pretty big.
[42:16.780 --> 42:19.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you sign up with them, they'll give you a shell account for free.
[42:19.140 --> 42:20.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: The PPP account is $20.
[42:21.140 --> 42:22.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: It saves you $15 off of both.
[42:22.920 --> 42:24.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's usually $35 and $20.
[42:24.320 --> 42:33.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: So it's, I mean, it's a decent deal if you don't mind getting LDDS, uh, which, which is interesting because LDDS is the only, only distance company that doesn't serve, give you a surcharge for card calls.
[42:34.180 --> 42:35.220]  [SPEAKER_25]: That's, that's true.
[42:35.660 --> 42:36.480]  [SPEAKER_25]: Um, in fact...
[42:36.480 --> 42:38.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, go for it if you are, if it's your want.
[42:38.900 --> 42:41.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: And they actually, apparently have a good news feed as well.
[42:41.680 --> 42:43.320]  [SPEAKER_25]: If you call, I think it's LDDS.
[42:43.320 --> 42:55.820]  [SPEAKER_25]: It might be listed as Metro Media at this particular point, but if you call them and you ask for the preferred calling card, uh, you can theoretically, if you, if you press hard enough, you'll get a 950 number, which works nationwide, 950-0488.
[42:55.820 --> 43:04.500]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, uh, I think it's a 14-digit code and, uh, basically there's no surcharge on that and it's not as expensive as calling through an 800 number.
[43:04.700 --> 43:05.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly.
[43:05.200 --> 43:15.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, they actually, for some reason, uh, well, actually a long time ago, MCI and I think Sprint used to offer local calls for your card calling, but actually cheaper than putting a quarter in.
[43:16.080 --> 43:16.400]  [SPEAKER_25]: That's right.
[43:16.500 --> 43:21.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: 950-1022 and 1033 used to be the, uh, MCI and Sprint, respectively, uh, numbers.
[43:21.360 --> 43:26.920]  [SPEAKER_25]: As people would call, with the phasing, uh, phasing in of equal access, those numbers went away.
[43:27.140 --> 43:28.900]  [SPEAKER_25]: Unfortunately, it's a really good idea.
[43:29.080 --> 43:38.860]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's something I think they could make a lot of money on if they, if they re-institute that, where you can actually be at a payphone, make a phone call, and pay the same amount of money that you would pay if you were dialing directly from your home.
[43:39.080 --> 43:39.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely.
[43:39.540 --> 43:40.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Last, absolutely last thing.
[43:40.600 --> 43:49.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: I just wanted to ask, uh, answer this, even when I get off, is, uh, you said someone's going to talk to the president of the INEX tomorrow about ISTN, at least in part.
[43:49.500 --> 43:49.920]  [SPEAKER_25]: That's right.
[43:50.020 --> 43:50.860]  [SPEAKER_25]: Someone is going to talk to them.
[43:50.860 --> 43:57.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, I'd like to hear what he has to say, because I hope he's going to relay both your story and millions of other stories that have gone on about ISTN.
[43:57.780 --> 43:58.040]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay.
[43:58.040 --> 44:00.620]  [SPEAKER_25]: I'm, I'm sure he will be there as a representative for all of us.
[44:00.780 --> 44:01.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: Beautiful.
[44:01.200 --> 44:01.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you.
[44:01.500 --> 44:01.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Bye-bye.
[44:01.900 --> 44:02.140]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay.
[44:02.900 --> 44:06.820]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, and by the way, when you talk to them tomorrow, um, don't mention me.
[44:07.040 --> 44:07.720]  [SPEAKER_25]: Don't mention this.
[44:07.840 --> 44:09.000]  [SPEAKER_25]: Don't mention we're doing this on the radio.
[44:09.140 --> 44:11.140]  [SPEAKER_25]: I, I, I don't want any special treatment here.
[44:11.340 --> 44:13.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: I, I want this to progress in its natural course.
[44:13.460 --> 44:14.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: We're up to day 29 now.
[44:15.200 --> 44:16.540]  [SPEAKER_25]: Maybe that's the way it should be.
[44:16.720 --> 44:17.120]  [SPEAKER_25]: Who knows?
[44:17.720 --> 44:20.680]  [SPEAKER_25]: Um, maybe when we get into the triple digits, I'll feel differently.
[44:20.680 --> 44:22.700]  [SPEAKER_25]: But for now, let's, uh, let's just keep it that way.
[44:22.760 --> 44:26.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: But, uh, by all means, let us know what happens when you plead your case.
[44:28.160 --> 44:29.280]  [SPEAKER_25]: 212-279-3400.
[44:29.380 --> 44:30.520]  [SPEAKER_25]: The program is off the hook.
[44:30.640 --> 44:33.460]  [SPEAKER_25]: We have about another 16 minutes, so let's see how many calls we can get through.
[44:34.000 --> 44:34.920]  [SPEAKER_25]: Good evening, you're on.
[44:36.880 --> 44:38.460]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, well, that's one we're going to get through rather quickly.
[44:38.680 --> 44:39.640]  [SPEAKER_25]: Good evening, you're on.
[44:40.340 --> 44:41.640]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, no static.
[44:41.740 --> 44:42.400]  [SPEAKER_25]: No static today.
[44:42.520 --> 44:43.220]  [SPEAKER_25]: Good evening, you're on.
[44:45.640 --> 44:46.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah, go ahead.
[44:47.380 --> 44:50.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, I've been trying to get through for a long time that new switch.
[44:50.680 --> 44:56.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: The switch that you guys had, unfortunately, implemented on you has been disconnecting me for about the last two weeks.
[44:56.960 --> 44:57.780]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yep, that's progress.
[44:58.380 --> 45:00.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, but I'm calling...
[45:01.440 --> 45:04.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Frankly, I think my, uh, call would have been...
[45:11.210 --> 45:19.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, uh, I'm calling, unfortunately, along the lines of, uh, Brian S, who's, uh...
[45:19.590 --> 45:21.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: Was in prison or whatnot?
[45:21.910 --> 45:22.410]  [SPEAKER_25]: Bernie S.
[45:22.610 --> 45:23.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bernie S.
[45:23.650 --> 45:51.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, uh, what I wanted to call about is that something that happened to him happened to me just recently in January in New Jersey, where, uh, my friend was charged with possession of a red box by local police, who seem to have a keen eye now to be looking for these kinds of things.
[45:51.050 --> 45:56.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: They knew exactly which buttons to press and this and that, and they started making wild accusations.
[45:57.130 --> 45:59.570]  [SPEAKER_25]: Was this, uh, one of the RadioShack tone dialers?
[45:59.790 --> 46:00.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it was.
[46:00.790 --> 46:03.470]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, listen, this is, this is what I'm going to suggest to everybody out there.
[46:03.530 --> 46:04.710]  [SPEAKER_25]: This has gone too far.
[46:05.430 --> 46:12.790]  [SPEAKER_25]: Um, you, you, you walk into RadioShack these days and you get interrogation when you try to buy one of these things, tone dialers that can easily be converted to be red boxes.
[46:13.170 --> 46:16.450]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, police on the street are, are interrogating people with these.
[46:16.590 --> 46:19.730]  [SPEAKER_25]: People are being locked up for $100,000 bail for possession of them.
[46:20.130 --> 46:28.870]  [SPEAKER_25]: I want everybody, I don't say these kind of things often, but I want everybody to go out, right now, whenever they open again, uh, to RadioShack and buy these tone dialers.
[46:28.970 --> 46:30.610]  [SPEAKER_25]: Buy as many of them as you can, okay?
[46:30.630 --> 46:32.770]  [SPEAKER_25]: This is not to help RadioShack, believe me.
[46:33.210 --> 46:35.550]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, but just buy them and don't modify them.
[46:35.670 --> 46:36.850]  [SPEAKER_25]: Just walk around with them.
[46:37.090 --> 46:46.610]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, you, when, when, when you start getting interrogated for having something that literally cannot do anything but emit a Touch-Tone, then maybe the average person will see how crazy this is.
[46:46.830 --> 46:52.610]  [SPEAKER_25]: And it'll also become a lot harder to find people that have, have, uh, modified ones and non-modified ones.
[46:52.770 --> 46:53.650]  [SPEAKER_25]: That is not the problem.
[46:53.810 --> 46:57.210]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's not the problem what kind of tones you emit through this little tiny box.
[46:57.470 --> 47:03.450]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, the, the, the problem is the fact that, A, payphone calls are outrageously expensive so people feel the need to do this kind of thing.
[47:03.570 --> 47:12.170]  [SPEAKER_25]: B, the system is so incredibly simple that it just takes five tones on a tape recorder that anybody can, can emulate to, uh, to defeat the system.
[47:12.730 --> 47:15.950]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, um, I'm sure there's a C in there somewhere, but I think that's good enough for now.
[47:15.950 --> 47:27.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, um, there's several other things that actually make this more than just a problem in terms of harassment.
[47:27.270 --> 47:27.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[47:27.710 --> 47:40.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: Considering the charge that he was charged with was, um, actually initially a felony charge of possession of an unauthorized telecommunications fraud device.
[47:40.750 --> 47:49.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: I actually have the police report in front of me, considering I was also, unfortunately, indirectly involved in this entire procedure.
[47:50.070 --> 47:52.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, I don't know.
[47:52.550 --> 47:57.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: These, like I said, uh, we weren't, he had it in, on him.
[47:57.290 --> 48:01.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: We weren't near payphones at the time of this entire proceeding and this and that.
[48:01.730 --> 48:13.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, at this point, I would assume that harassment is, like, beyond the explanation for what these people seem to be doing now.
[48:13.750 --> 48:27.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, also, something else that I wanted to say is that I, myself, um, as a result of this and some other things, have been in jail for the past couple of months.
[48:27.870 --> 48:29.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: I normally go to 2600.
[48:29.750 --> 48:35.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've spoken to you plenty of times, myself, uh, at these meetings and whatnot.
[48:35.650 --> 48:53.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, unfortunately, during this last time that I had to deal with these state authorities, I finally found out something that, to me, makes even less sense than the way people are prosecuting these red box calls nowadays.
[48:54.130 --> 49:06.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've found out that I've been under investigation by federal authorities for so long that, to me, it seems as if they've been spending literally millions of dollars on me.
[49:07.030 --> 49:15.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I want to state right now that I've never been charged federally or state on a state level for any sort of computer crime.
[49:15.210 --> 49:22.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I just wanted to let you know that I, myself, have had my phone calls monitored.
[49:22.710 --> 49:27.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've had pictures of myself taken at various kinds of 2600 meetings.
[49:27.670 --> 49:35.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: This was shown to, like, parents of my friends in order to show them what a bad person I was, and this and that.
[49:35.830 --> 49:39.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was, had so many things confiscated from me.
[49:39.490 --> 49:48.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: I, myself, had software on how to technically use cellular phones, cables for modifying cellular phones.
[49:48.390 --> 49:50.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: Also had no modified cellular phones.
[49:50.810 --> 49:55.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: But these things, in and of themselves, were confiscated from me.
[49:55.130 --> 49:58.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: No record of them being taken from me was ever given.
[49:58.570 --> 50:05.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know if I can get them back, because what actual record do I have of them taking this from me?
[50:06.110 --> 50:09.050]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, they're supposed to give you a receipt when they take these things.
[50:09.190 --> 50:10.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: But they haven't.
[50:10.290 --> 50:13.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: And this has happened to me twice, at least.
[50:13.770 --> 50:28.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: And in the, uh, last instance, this being in the, uh, beginning of January, they took, off of this supposed possession of a red box, they came to my house and they took all my computer discs.
[50:28.650 --> 50:32.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: They took 2600 magazines from me.
[50:32.310 --> 50:34.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: About three or four of them.
[50:35.050 --> 50:39.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, once again, they have absolutely no record of ever having taken this from me.
[50:40.110 --> 50:43.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I know that I don't have this anymore.
[50:43.570 --> 50:49.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, this was about, like, 5 to 6 years worth of collecting various files off of various BBSs.
[50:50.470 --> 50:54.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: And hundreds of these discs are no longer in my possession.
[50:54.430 --> 51:06.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm wondering if you've ever heard of similar cases to the level where, I mean, back in September, they took my hard drive and they didn't give me any kind of record of them taking it.
[51:06.710 --> 51:11.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: At that time, they took those cables, they took the software for cellular phones.
[51:11.730 --> 51:14.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: No record of any of this being taken from me.
[51:14.570 --> 51:18.050]  [SPEAKER_25]: I've heard countless cases over the years of, of, of very similar things happening.
[51:18.210 --> 51:21.690]  [SPEAKER_25]: Perhaps, uh, not as well documented as, as yours, you know, from your point of view.
[51:22.210 --> 51:25.570]  [SPEAKER_25]: Uh, but this, this kind of thing does happen quite a bit.
[51:26.010 --> 51:29.050]  [SPEAKER_25]: Um, now, I assume you know the entity that did this.
[51:29.310 --> 51:34.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, it was the Secret Service on, uh, both accounts.
[51:34.610 --> 51:38.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: However, the FBI also decided to show up in tandem.
[51:38.750 --> 51:45.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: I have unfortunately found out the hard way that I have quite a large file amassed on me since...
[51:45.770 --> 51:46.190]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay.
[51:46.370 --> 51:47.450]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, now, there's a couple of things.
[51:47.630 --> 51:56.770]  [SPEAKER_25]: A, you can, you can file Freedom of Information Acts to, uh, to, to find out what kind of files they have on you, um, and get the help of perhaps the ACLU on that one.
[51:56.990 --> 52:07.190]  [SPEAKER_25]: Now, the problem that a lot of computer hackers have, or, or people that are caught up in these kind of cases, is they don't know exactly what it is that these people are looking for, what they're going to charge them with.
[52:07.270 --> 52:18.810]  [SPEAKER_25]: And I don't think there are very many people in this country, computer hackers and non-computer hackers, that can say beyond a shadow of a doubt, I am totally innocent, and there's absolutely nothing that, uh, that I'm not afraid of, uh, of people finding out.
[52:19.170 --> 52:32.470]  [SPEAKER_25]: If you are one of the people that can stand up and say there's, you know, there's absolutely nothing that I've done wrong, and nothing can be proven against me, then you may be able to afford to actually go public and fight these people, and challenge them to,
[52:32.550 --> 52:33.450]  [SPEAKER_25]: to come up with something.
[52:35.190 --> 52:46.510]  [SPEAKER_25]: And if they will set a precedent where they have to, uh, have some kind of, of, uh, valid reason before they go busting in people's doors and, and, and seizing equipment without any kind of crime being committed.
[52:47.070 --> 52:51.770]  [SPEAKER_25]: You see, but that, that's really, we need that kind of a precedent where someone is not afraid to do that.
[52:51.850 --> 52:57.430]  [SPEAKER_25]: And that's why it's important for people who are interested in this kind of thing to, to play by the rules.
[52:57.550 --> 53:09.850]  [SPEAKER_25]: That is, not, uh, not go out and, and, uh, break all kinds of laws because then, uh, you know, when the pigeons come home to roost, you're not gonna be able to stand on solid ground and say, look, I know why I, I, I'm standing up for myself.
[53:09.850 --> 53:14.050]  [SPEAKER_25]: I know what I believe in, and this is, you know, my point of view, and you violated my rights.
[53:14.190 --> 53:18.010]  [SPEAKER_25]: If you think that you're perhaps a criminal, then you're not gonna be able to do that as easily.
[53:18.570 --> 53:20.590]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, and it'll be much more of a chance to take.
[53:20.750 --> 53:21.390]  [SPEAKER_25]: Do you see my point?
[53:22.190 --> 53:24.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I see your point entirely.
[53:24.790 --> 53:37.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, actually, in all of the things that they have accused me of, or supposedly said that I might have been doing, I mean, they never even really gave much explanations.
[53:37.410 --> 53:40.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: They were just, frankly, I was in jail.
[53:40.750 --> 53:45.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: And when I finally came out, I found out that all this stuff was gone.
[53:45.210 --> 53:50.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: I found out that all these books were missing, and this and that.
[53:50.410 --> 54:04.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: Like I said, I've never been charged, much less convicted, of any crime on a state or federal level related to computer crime, telephony, or anything related to this, cellular phone fraud, or nonetheless.
[54:05.130 --> 54:17.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: However, I'm, I'm absolutely certain, because unfortunately, I now have cassette tapes in my possession of recorded conversations from years ago.
[54:17.490 --> 54:27.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I found out that they were recently exploiting a legal loophole in the fact that they have the ability to tap a phone for 20 days without notifying the person.
[54:27.590 --> 54:35.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: And what they were doing, in my case, was tapping it for, like, say, 18 days, and not tapping it for five, and then tapping it again.
[54:35.630 --> 54:39.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they could do this ad infinitum forever and ever.
[54:39.470 --> 54:42.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, unfortunately, they've been doing this for years.
[54:42.230 --> 54:53.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, frankly, I initially maybe even wanted to give this as a warning, but I don't even know what to give it as anymore, other than the fact that, in some cases, these guys must be really, really bored.
[54:54.450 --> 54:56.870]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, yeah, they're bored, they're suspicious, they're afraid.
[54:57.130 --> 55:00.550]  [SPEAKER_25]: What you need to do, and you need to do this quickly, contact the ACLU.
[55:00.770 --> 55:02.230]  [SPEAKER_25]: Get them interested in this story.
[55:02.310 --> 55:04.990]  [SPEAKER_25]: They need to take active interest in a lot of these cases.
[55:05.130 --> 55:10.910]  [SPEAKER_25]: They haven't so far, because there hasn't really been something where they can latch on to and learn from.
[55:11.170 --> 55:14.370]  [SPEAKER_25]: And, unfortunately, a lot of people are suffering as a result.
[55:14.570 --> 55:22.370]  [SPEAKER_25]: This sounds like the kind of case where there's a lot of material here, a lot of abuse of authority, and I don't see why they wouldn't be interested in that.
[55:22.490 --> 55:27.990]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, by all means, call the New York office, or if you're in a different city, call the office nearest to you.
[55:28.310 --> 55:33.850]  [SPEAKER_25]: And let us know how it turns out, because it sounds like a case that affects all of us.
[55:34.370 --> 55:41.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, that's why I really wanted to finally get on the phone and make sure that everybody knows.
[55:42.210 --> 55:43.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: I live right in New Jersey.
[55:43.470 --> 55:49.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm very close to New York, and I've lived there all in my life, and this has pretty much happened to me all in New Jersey.
[55:49.370 --> 55:57.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the Secret Service that have been bothering me and the FBI have been coming from Morristown and Newark, respectively.
[55:58.030 --> 56:02.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, it's all actually happening quite close to Newark.
[56:02.790 --> 56:02.810]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay.
[56:02.810 --> 56:10.530]  [SPEAKER_25]: Again, the most important thing in cases like this is full disclosure from us and from the people that are abusing our rights.
[56:10.670 --> 56:14.390]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, by all means, tell as many people as you can about what's going on.
[56:14.470 --> 56:16.010]  [SPEAKER_25]: Telling us on the radio, of course, is a good start.
[56:16.170 --> 56:19.610]  [SPEAKER_25]: But continue to follow this up legally and let us know, okay?
[56:20.030 --> 56:20.310]  Okay.
[56:20.530 --> 56:20.770]  [SPEAKER_25]: All right.
[56:20.810 --> 56:21.170]  [SPEAKER_25]: Good luck.
[56:21.350 --> 56:21.670]  All right.
[56:22.250 --> 56:41.150]  [SPEAKER_25]: And while that caller was on the line, in fact, I guess maybe about two minutes ago, just to demonstrate the ease of which we can do things like this, we took a RadioShack dialer, which somebody had in their pocket, a non-modified one, and began the process of modifying it.
[56:41.150 --> 56:42.250]  [SPEAKER_25]: Is that the case?
[56:42.350 --> 56:44.250]  [SPEAKER_25]: Now, how are we doing over there?
[56:44.390 --> 56:48.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we have all the tools, and we actually just happen to have all the tools on us here.
[56:50.410 --> 56:54.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: I always carry a soldering iron with me just in case I need to solder something.
[56:56.090 --> 56:58.430]  [SPEAKER_25]: You've saved lives with your soldering iron, haven't you?
[56:58.610 --> 56:58.850]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay.
[56:59.130 --> 56:59.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's very helpful.
[56:59.750 --> 57:01.390]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, now, where do we stand in the operation?
[57:01.390 --> 57:02.470]  [SPEAKER_25]: It began about two minutes ago.
[57:02.570 --> 57:04.190]  [SPEAKER_25]: I watched all the activity from here.
[57:04.250 --> 57:07.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: We've got to heat up the solder, and it takes a while for the soldering iron to...
[57:07.910 --> 57:08.810]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, you have four minutes.
[57:08.910 --> 57:10.150]  [SPEAKER_25]: Are we going to be done in four minutes?
[57:10.150 --> 57:11.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is this a challenge?
[57:11.830 --> 57:12.890]  [SPEAKER_25]: No, it's not a challenge.
[57:12.890 --> 57:13.590]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's a question.
[57:13.870 --> 57:16.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we can actually do that.
[57:16.790 --> 57:19.470]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, you better hurry, because now you have three minutes and 30 seconds.
[57:19.690 --> 57:23.710]  [SPEAKER_25]: So, while they're working on that, let's take another phone call here.
[57:23.910 --> 57:25.410]  [SPEAKER_25]: 212-279-3400.
[57:25.590 --> 57:25.910]  [SPEAKER_25]: Good evening.
[57:26.050 --> 57:26.730]  [SPEAKER_25]: You're on Off The Hook.
[57:27.110 --> 57:27.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good evening.
[57:28.150 --> 57:28.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[57:29.590 --> 57:35.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: UNIX can be reached on 800-501.
[57:35.570 --> 57:36.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm sorry.
[57:36.370 --> 57:37.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean Netcom.
[57:37.370 --> 57:37.730]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay.
[57:37.730 --> 57:38.970]  [SPEAKER_25]: I was wondering what you meant by that.
[57:38.970 --> 57:50.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: It can be reached on 800-501-UNIX, and they connect various departments, especially sales.
[57:50.590 --> 57:59.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know about, excuse me, about technical backup department.
[57:59.010 --> 58:03.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think you have to make, always have to call that department on 408.
[58:03.730 --> 58:12.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: As to that IDT company, if you're calling from New York, you're always going to have to wait for them.
[58:12.310 --> 58:23.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: You call an 800 number rather than the 201 number your caller gave, though, of course, that would locally in the Hackensack area.
[58:23.270 --> 58:23.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's fine.
[58:24.210 --> 58:29.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: And you have to wait for them to always get back to you.
[58:30.990 --> 58:32.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: What is the name of it?
[58:32.730 --> 59:04.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: What you want, the lowest priced long-distance service of all, and with all six-second increments, not even a 30-second initial increment, is from MetroMedia, LDDS, they'll soon be called WorldCom, formerly ITT, via 800-GUS, GUS-8888, and be sure to press 2 so that you get customer service in East Rutherford.
[59:04.930 --> 59:09.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: You don't want residential, and you don't have to claim to actually be a business.
[59:09.590 --> 59:16.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: To get the same service at slightly higher prices, the residential customers pay a monthly fee.
[59:16.530 --> 59:18.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: The small business do not.
[59:19.090 --> 59:22.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're not the most aptly run place.
[59:23.490 --> 59:30.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: You always have to say, and who is this speaking, because they almost never give their names when you get them.
[59:30.710 --> 59:39.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: And then you have to tell them, you have to call the 800 number that's answered in Buffalo, where they sell their rum.
[59:39.670 --> 59:42.130]  [SPEAKER_25]: It sounds like you're taking a train ride around the country here.
[59:42.350 --> 59:43.710]  [SPEAKER_25]: Do you really have to go through all this?
[59:44.090 --> 59:44.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: Mm-hmm.
[59:44.490 --> 59:46.630]  [SPEAKER_25]: You really have to go through all this, East Rutherford, Buffalo?
[59:46.630 --> 59:49.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're going to get terrific rates.
[59:50.170 --> 59:50.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: By the way, I have...
[59:50.950 --> 59:52.670]  [SPEAKER_25]: Do you have any energy left after all this?
[59:52.770 --> 59:57.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: I have anonymous call rejection in service now.
[59:57.310 --> 01:00:02.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, if there were some way to get through to you, maybe I can tell you about it next week, but...
[01:00:03.270 --> 01:00:04.230]  [SPEAKER_25]: I'm sorry, if there's what?
[01:00:04.610 --> 01:00:11.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: If there were some way to get through to you, most weeks I have my lines going the whole time, and I never do.
[01:00:11.250 --> 01:00:15.370]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah, well, you know, it's a crapshoot for everybody, as far as getting through to the station.
[01:00:15.370 --> 01:00:20.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: At least anonymous call rejection, besides in the Poughkeepsie ladder, is available.
[01:00:20.310 --> 01:00:23.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: You have to call and put in a regular order.
[01:00:23.330 --> 01:00:32.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: There is no charge whatever to put it into effect, and if you have call ID, it's free of monthly charge as well.
[01:00:36.710 --> 01:00:37.770]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, anything else?
[01:00:38.610 --> 01:00:40.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, we're out of time is the problem.
[01:00:40.850 --> 01:00:41.810]  [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah, that is a problem.
[01:00:41.910 --> 01:00:43.530]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[01:00:43.650 --> 01:00:46.630]  [SPEAKER_25]: We do have to update us on this modification progress.
[01:00:46.890 --> 01:00:47.830]  [SPEAKER_25]: What's going on over there?
[01:00:47.830 --> 01:00:53.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I've managed to get the old crystal out, the colorburst crystal, and I'm replacing it with a 6.5 megahertz.
[01:00:54.150 --> 01:00:55.550]  [SPEAKER_25]: 6.5 megahertz crystal.
[01:00:55.690 --> 01:00:57.510]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, this is the crystal that got Bernie S.
[01:00:57.650 --> 01:00:58.890]  [SPEAKER_25]: in a slammer for $100,000.
[01:00:59.470 --> 01:01:00.330]  [SPEAKER_25]: In my hand.
[01:01:00.490 --> 01:01:00.730]  [SPEAKER_25]: All right.
[01:01:00.830 --> 01:01:05.010]  [SPEAKER_25]: Well, it needs to be out of your hand and into the thing here.
[01:01:05.130 --> 01:01:06.810]  [SPEAKER_25]: We have about 15 seconds.
[01:01:06.930 --> 01:01:07.430]  [SPEAKER_25]: Are we going to make it?
[01:01:07.690 --> 01:01:08.070]  [SPEAKER_24]: 15 seconds.
[01:01:08.770 --> 01:01:11.930]  [SPEAKER_25]: Because we have the news rebroadcast coming up in just a couple minutes.
[01:01:12.350 --> 01:01:17.550]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, while you're soldering, and I'm sure we're making radio history here, maybe criminal history too.
[01:01:19.890 --> 01:01:24.510]  [SPEAKER_25]: Let's update people on the world news here.
[01:01:24.750 --> 01:01:28.650]  [SPEAKER_25]: This is something straight out of Iran, and maybe soon something similar will happen here.
[01:01:28.990 --> 01:01:36.030]  [SPEAKER_25]: Iranians who want their MTV will instead get visits from a special police unit formed to seize satellite TV dishes, which become illegal today.
[01:01:36.430 --> 01:01:39.790]  [SPEAKER_25]: The ban will immunize the people against the cultural invasion of the West.
[01:01:39.890 --> 01:01:47.150]  [SPEAKER_25]: Interior Minister Ali Mohamed Basharadi said yesterday in Tehran his comments were reported by Iranian media monitored in Cyprus.
[01:01:47.830 --> 01:01:48.610]  [SPEAKER_25]: Via satellite.
[01:01:49.110 --> 01:01:53.230]  [SPEAKER_25]: Owners of satellite dishes will have four days to remove them before raids by police begin.
[01:01:53.890 --> 01:01:58.090]  [SPEAKER_25]: Tehran has an estimated 250,000 satellite dishes, about one for every ten inhabitants.
[01:01:58.210 --> 01:01:59.650]  [SPEAKER_25]: I wonder if we can get a good deal on those.
[01:02:00.510 --> 01:02:01.290]  [SPEAKER_25]: I don't know.
[01:02:01.530 --> 01:02:02.230]  [SPEAKER_25]: It would be nice.
[01:02:02.730 --> 01:02:03.650]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, we're out of time.
[01:02:03.870 --> 01:02:04.370]  [SPEAKER_25]: Do we have a...
[01:02:04.370 --> 01:02:04.970]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's done.
[01:02:05.150 --> 01:02:06.570]  [SPEAKER_25]: All right, so let's...
[01:02:06.570 --> 01:02:08.530]  [SPEAKER_25]: Let's see if this thing actually works.
[01:02:08.630 --> 01:02:09.530]  [SPEAKER_25]: We're putting the batteries down.
[01:02:10.090 --> 01:02:17.450]  [SPEAKER_25]: Now remember, these are the tones that cause all the problems in the world, and if the phone company would just fix their system, there would be no problem.
[01:02:17.570 --> 01:02:18.270]  [SPEAKER_25]: Let's see if it works.
[01:02:19.610 --> 01:02:22.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is one of the tones.
[01:02:22.950 --> 01:02:23.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm programming.
[01:02:24.630 --> 01:02:24.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[01:02:25.290 --> 01:02:26.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: And now...
[01:02:33.920 --> 01:02:34.900]  [SPEAKER_25]: This is very tense.
[01:02:35.400 --> 01:02:36.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: You hit memory, and then one...
[01:02:36.880 --> 01:02:37.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: Delicate operations.
[01:02:39.360 --> 01:02:41.160]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, we really have no more time.
[01:02:41.340 --> 01:02:42.160]  [SPEAKER_25]: We have to go to the news.
[01:02:42.160 --> 01:02:43.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hit memory, star, five times.
[01:02:44.460 --> 01:02:45.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's what I've done.
[01:02:46.040 --> 01:02:48.120]  [SPEAKER_25]: All right, well, it was close.
[01:02:48.400 --> 01:02:49.040]  [SPEAKER_25]: It was very close.
[01:02:49.040 --> 01:02:49.820]  [SPEAKER_25]: We'll be done in just a second.
[01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:50.820]  [SPEAKER_25]: We don't have a second.
[01:02:50.940 --> 01:02:51.360]  [SPEAKER_25]: We're out of time.
[01:02:51.480 --> 01:02:52.060]  [SPEAKER_25]: We're out of time.
[01:02:52.180 --> 01:02:52.340]  [SPEAKER_25]: Sorry.
[01:02:53.080 --> 01:02:54.060]  [SPEAKER_25]: But it's close.
[01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:55.040]  [SPEAKER_25]: It's very close.
[01:02:55.280 --> 01:02:57.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: What we need to do is program five stars into the device.
[01:02:57.800 --> 01:03:02.700]  [SPEAKER_25]: Okay, and then we'd have illegal tones going out over the air, but I guess we're not going to do that today.
[01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:07.820]  [SPEAKER_25]: Thanks, everybody, for joining us and for being a part of this historical program here.
[01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:10.560]  [SPEAKER_25]: Stay tuned for a rebroadcast of Pacifica Evening News.
[01:03:18.910 --> 01:03:25.410]  [SPEAKER_25]: This has been Off The Hook, and we'll be back again next week at the same time, and I'm sure by then we'll have this thing perfected.
[01:03:25.870 --> 01:03:34.350]  [SPEAKER_25]: It only takes a couple of minutes, and it's really something that we need to understand a little better, I think, in the legal world.
[01:03:35.150 --> 01:03:38.750]  [SPEAKER_25]: Stay tuned for the Pacifica Evening News rebroadcast here on WBAI New York.
[01:03:38.890 --> 01:03:39.050]  [SPEAKER_25]: Good night.