Off The Hook - 2006-03-15

[00:00.020 --> 00:04.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: With your support, we were able to raise approximately $900,000.
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[00:34.580 --> 00:38.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI, New York.
[00:38.440 --> 00:39.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's 7 o'clock.
[00:39.560 --> 00:40.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Time for Off The Hook.
[00:45.940 --> 01:07.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a call We couldn't get much worse They would But the best expect the worst I hope that's understood One day to leave now
[01:38.460 --> 01:39.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[01:39.620 --> 01:40.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: The program is Off The Hook.
[01:42.100 --> 01:46.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening, back after two weeks.
[01:47.480 --> 01:56.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: And tonight we're joined by Jim Hello Mike Hi Redbird Good evening Redhack, is that you?
[01:57.010 --> 02:02.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes It's been a while Yeah, it has Wow, it's been so long I don't think your mic is even working now You have to maintain your microphone.
[02:02.960 --> 02:15.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Everyone is handed a special microphone and it's up to them to keep it So if someone sounds bad, it's their fault, not mine So, yeah, try that again Hello Yeah, there you are And Walter joins us as well Hey How you doing?
[02:16.290 --> 02:19.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I guess the first thing I should do is contact Bernie S.
[02:19.840 --> 02:20.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because Bernie S.
[02:21.480 --> 02:36.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: is off the continent Uh-oh Yeah, he's off the continent He's in a foreign land And, um, well, you guys know where he is I'm gonna, I'm gonna hold out as long as possible To see if any obvious clues are given out in the phone call that we make to him Uh,
[02:36.780 --> 02:45.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: but, um You're probably gonna hear somebody speaking in a foreign language And if you know that foreign language, you'll know a few seconds before everybody else knows Where Bernie S.
[02:46.140 --> 02:53.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: actually is Now we're calling our special hotline That goes directly to where Bernie is located Oh, you know what?
[02:54.040 --> 03:05.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not sure about the room number I know it's I think I know what it is It's one of two things Your call is being connected All right Our call is being connected You better hope you don't get the wrong person
[03:10.430 --> 03:14.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, yes, hello Good evening Do you speak English?
[03:14.980 --> 03:15.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, may I help you?
[03:15.900 --> 03:22.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, yes, hi I'm trying to reach room, uh, 319, please Okay Just one second Thank you
[03:27.520 --> 03:28.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anybody understand that language?
[03:30.320 --> 03:30.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: English?
[03:30.860 --> 03:51.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes Not that language Hello Bernie Um, it's one o'clock in the morning Oh good, I got the right room I was afraid, you know, I wasn't sure if I was off by a hundred So I was afraid I was gonna wake up somebody in the country that you're in Which we have not revealed yet Um,
[03:52.640 --> 03:57.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: you sure sound kind of, uh, kind of down, uh, aren't you having fun over there?
[03:57.960 --> 04:17.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm hungry It sounds like he is having fun I think that was a clue as to where he is I'm, I'm in Budapest Budapest, which last I checked was in Hungary And, uh, Bernie was making a witty little joke there I'm looking out, uh, looking out over the window here,
[04:17.240 --> 04:21.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: um, at the Danube River, which is not blue It's not?
[04:21.960 --> 04:37.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: No So Strauss was lying all this time We were, Laszlo and I were in Vienna a couple of days ago And we observed there, it was green Uh, but here it's brown The green Danube The brown Danube Are you in Buda or in Pest?
[04:37.840 --> 04:49.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, Jim is showing off his knowledge of the two cities separated by the Danube Whatever color it happens to be Uh, if I recall correctly, Pest is the one with all the commerce And, um, and Buda is the one with the statue, right?
[04:49.720 --> 04:50.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm on the...
[04:50.520 --> 04:51.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: A Buddha statue?
[04:51.640 --> 04:58.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, not a Buddha statue, you word I can't say on the radio I'm on the Buddha side, but, um...
[04:58.140 --> 05:04.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay It's interesting, speaking of statues, they have a museum here, um, where, uh, after...
[05:04.360 --> 05:05.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Excuse me, I think...
[05:05.380 --> 05:06.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Are you sick again?
[05:06.420 --> 05:13.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Every time you travel, you get sick Actually, it's true, I haven't been sick for an entire year, Emmanuel, but, uh, uh, Laszlo and I both came down with...
[05:13.820 --> 05:16.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: We hope it's not bird flu, but...
[05:16.040 --> 05:25.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's right, bring, bring some bird flu back here, we could really use that That'll make the customs agents very happy to see you There's a lot of, uh, there's a lot of people upset here about bird flu They're trading in their dogs and cats for,
[05:25.780 --> 05:29.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: for paintings, because, uh, they're afraid the birds anymore...
[05:29.420 --> 05:30.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're gonna give their cats...
[05:30.960 --> 05:35.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Alright, you know, that's almost crazy enough for me to believe you Are they really trading in their dogs and cats for paintings?
[05:35.820 --> 05:37.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Truly, yes, they're bringing them back to the...
[05:37.300 --> 05:41.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're taking them to shelters, saying, we don't want these animals anymore, because they could get...
[05:41.100 --> 05:52.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: They found some... in Austria, where we were a couple days ago, uh, some cats have, uh, contracted bird flu, because I guess they ate infected birds Right, but, but where did the idea to give them paintings in exchange come in?
[05:52.920 --> 05:57.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I mean, something, something that's not gonna catch bird flu... I, I, I threw in the paintings as a...
[05:58.180 --> 06:02.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Ah, okay, that was, that was, that was your little touch, I knew something didn't make sense Not, not funny, though.
[06:02.840 --> 06:06.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, there's no painting for cats store anywhere, it's just...
[06:06.540 --> 06:08.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Not yet, maybe somebody has a, has an idea now.
[06:09.080 --> 06:14.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Alright, so you're, you're at the CBIT conference, this is the one that attracts, uh, what is it, one, two thousand people?
[06:14.600 --> 06:14.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: How many?
[06:14.800 --> 06:19.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Six hundred thousand people, uh, go to, uh, Hanover, Germany every year for...
[06:19.880 --> 06:20.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was off by a little bit.
[06:21.180 --> 06:28.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: CBIT conference, which is, uh, as you noted, the world's largest, uh, IT, telecom, technology conference, and, uh...
[06:28.580 --> 06:30.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the closest place you could get a room was Budapest?
[06:30.540 --> 06:45.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, no, we, uh, we stayed in Hanover, uh, for, for several days, while we tromped around, uh, the massive, uh, Hanover Fair complex, where CBIT is, and, uh, observed many, uh, interesting technologies, met up with some friends, uh, our, uh, our friends at the,
[06:45.460 --> 06:50.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: uh, crypto phone booth were, were there, and, uh, in, uh, good form.
[06:51.380 --> 06:56.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and, uh, there was a lot of, uh, a lot of talk about, uh, voice over IP here this year.
[06:56.780 --> 06:58.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: A lot of, uh, a lot of voice over IP technologies.
[06:58.920 --> 07:00.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Skype was, uh, was everywhere.
[07:01.120 --> 07:07.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, a lot of, a lot of, uh, people are jumping onto the Skype bandwagon, as, uh, we have also been doing.
[07:08.160 --> 07:10.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, we stayed on that bandwagon for a couple of weeks, and we got off again.
[07:11.020 --> 07:12.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think we should get back on it.
[07:12.160 --> 07:21.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you know, you, you've got to do that on your end, because you have, uh, you're the one with the, you know, I gotta say, you sound better now in, in Hungary than you do in Philadelphia, because you're not using that, that Sprint PCS phone.
[07:22.900 --> 07:24.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Sprint PCS phone, yeah.
[07:24.600 --> 07:25.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're, we're using a landline here.
[07:26.240 --> 07:26.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: I am.
[07:26.940 --> 07:36.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: In the hotel, although I do have a GSM phone that I picked up here, a tri-band, uh, from Siemens that works pretty well, but might as well use this landline for better, better fidelity.
[07:37.100 --> 07:37.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mm-hmm.
[07:37.540 --> 07:37.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[07:37.820 --> 07:41.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was, I was starting to say, they have, speaking of statues, they have a, they have a museum here.
[07:42.160 --> 07:49.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, it's, uh, the largest outdoor museum of former Soviet Union-inspired statues.
[07:50.480 --> 07:51.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, wow.
[07:51.360 --> 07:54.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can bring home a couple, we can put them up on Red Square down in the house on the street.
[07:54.180 --> 07:58.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: They have all, they rounded up all the statues after, uh, after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
[07:58.260 --> 08:05.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: They rounded up all the statues of Lenin, Marx, and Engels, and other Soviet heroes, and, uh, put them all in one park.
[08:06.340 --> 08:07.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can, you can observe them all.
[08:08.820 --> 08:11.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Boy, do they, do they move, or do they do anything other than?
[08:12.280 --> 08:14.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Stay you in the face with sort of a threatening look.
[08:14.640 --> 08:14.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's it.
[08:15.000 --> 08:15.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's kind of interesting.
[08:15.940 --> 08:19.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're all in one, one small, enclosed, fenced-in area.
[08:20.360 --> 08:20.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wow.
[08:21.220 --> 08:24.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, are there any other, uh, cities you're planning on, uh, on visiting?
[08:25.200 --> 08:42.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, well, we, uh, we spent a few days in Hanover for CBIT, and then a couple days in Vienna, Austria, for those of us who don't know, and, uh, been two days here in, in, uh, Budapest, where we've not been, uh, feeling too well, but we still managed to see as much as possible,
[08:42.220 --> 08:45.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: including an amazing telecom museum they have here.
[08:45.460 --> 09:04.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's the museum, uh, the telephone museum, here in Budapest, where they have, uh, a fully operating 7A1 rotary switch that was, uh, put into service in, uh, 1928, and remained in service here until 1985, believe it or not.
[09:04.060 --> 09:19.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, beautiful step-by-step switches, which you can, um, actually observe working, because, uh, they don't have it in service on the, on the public switch telephone network anymore, but it's, uh, it's still live on, uh, some, uh, end-to-end extensions,
[09:20.000 --> 09:33.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: and you can, you can dial up another phone and listen to those dulcet tones in a, in a, in a, in a handset, and, uh, see the other phone ring and watch all the relays clatter and click.
[09:33.000 --> 09:34.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's music to my ears.
[09:34.680 --> 09:44.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: The last time I was in a step-by-step exchange was about 25 years ago in Dallas, Pennsylvania, one of the last ones that was still working, um, around, uh...
[09:44.620 --> 09:45.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Dallas, Pennsylvania, huh?
[09:46.080 --> 09:47.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, near, near, near Wilkes-Barre-Scranton.
[09:47.980 --> 09:49.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Isn't there a Philadelphia in Texas?
[09:49.640 --> 09:50.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: There is.
[09:50.320 --> 09:50.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's very strange.
[09:51.040 --> 09:52.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: I wonder if they're sister cities.
[09:53.600 --> 09:53.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Interesting.
[09:54.340 --> 09:56.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, okay, well, Bernie, I, I, are you here for the duration?
[09:56.880 --> 09:57.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Are you here for the whole hour?
[09:58.300 --> 09:59.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, yeah, I'll, I'll be hanging in.
[09:59.620 --> 10:05.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: By the way, if anybody's interested in that telecom museum, they have a, uh, a website that's, uh, worth checking out.
[10:05.320 --> 10:05.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's an excellent website.
[10:06.140 --> 10:08.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's called, um, let me look it up here.
[10:09.020 --> 10:10.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, well, keep talking.
[10:10.460 --> 10:11.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll, I'll come up with it.
[10:11.160 --> 10:11.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Here it is.
[10:11.820 --> 10:15.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: www.postamuseum.hu.
[10:15.640 --> 10:25.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's P-O-S-T-A-M-U-Z, not an S, P-O-S-T-A-M-U-Z-E-U-M.hu.
[10:25.260 --> 10:28.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: And .hu is the top-level domain for Hungary.
[10:29.500 --> 10:29.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[10:29.900 --> 10:34.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: So check that, it's a, it's a superb virtual tour of the, the, uh, telephone museum here in Budapest.
[10:35.180 --> 10:35.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[10:36.280 --> 10:39.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, Bernie S joining us from Budapest, where it's what time in the morning now?
[10:40.220 --> 10:41.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: A little after 1 a.m.
[10:41.820 --> 10:42.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, it's not so late.
[10:43.940 --> 10:45.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not, well, it just seems it.
[10:46.100 --> 10:47.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is that Laszlo there with you, or?
[10:47.880 --> 10:52.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: He is, but he's, uh, feeling even more under the weather than I.
[10:52.420 --> 10:54.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: So he's trying to, we have a, we have a flight in the morning.
[10:54.500 --> 10:54.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[10:54.720 --> 10:54.720]  Yeah.
[10:55.100 --> 10:58.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Back to Munich and then, uh, for a few hours and then back to New York.
[10:59.060 --> 10:59.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: I see.
[10:59.540 --> 11:03.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: And he'll, where he'll be staying and then I'll be taking a train back to Philadelphia.
[11:04.080 --> 11:04.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[11:04.540 --> 11:06.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, sounds like an action-packed day for you.
[11:06.620 --> 11:09.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, and we'll have Bernie on for the hour from, from Hungary.
[11:10.000 --> 11:12.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think it's the first time we've been connected to Hungary during, during the show.
[11:13.080 --> 11:13.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, okay.
[11:13.960 --> 11:16.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: So we're on for the first time in the last couple of weeks.
[11:16.540 --> 11:22.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: I want to thank everybody who called in and pledged during our three, our three appearances during the pledge drive, which I think is some kind of record for us.
[11:22.440 --> 11:23.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: We did pretty well.
[11:23.680 --> 11:27.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: And again, as the announcement before our show said, uh, make sure you honor those pledges.
[11:27.600 --> 11:29.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Making the pledge is good, but it's not the whole story.
[11:29.840 --> 11:31.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: You gotta, you gotta actually honor the pledge.
[11:31.300 --> 11:32.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you've paid with a credit card, fine.
[11:32.920 --> 11:33.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's already taken care of.
[11:34.220 --> 11:35.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Otherwise, uh, please send in that check.
[11:37.260 --> 11:41.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, anything exciting happen in the last couple of weeks that you guys want to, uh, jump in on?
[11:42.060 --> 11:42.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: No?
[11:42.400 --> 11:42.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[11:42.820 --> 11:43.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, Jim, you got something.
[11:43.540 --> 11:43.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: What?
[11:43.820 --> 11:44.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[11:44.200 --> 11:44.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[11:44.640 --> 11:46.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Microsoft has come to a settlement.
[11:47.640 --> 11:59.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Someone sued Microsoft because Microsoft was bad in that if you had bought a computer in, uh, almost anywhere, it came preloaded with Microsoft software and there was no way around this.
[11:59.000 --> 12:05.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: Even if you wanted other software, uh, the people who sold you the computer, they had to pay Microsoft and you had to pay them pretty much.
[12:06.140 --> 12:07.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: And someone sued.
[12:07.300 --> 12:21.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: And finally there's a settlement and the terms of the settlement are quite interesting because it applies to anybody who bought certain Microsoft products between May 18th, 1994 through December 31st, 2004.
[12:21.780 --> 12:37.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: And if you bought, uh, Windows 95, 98, 98 2nd Edition, or Millennium, if you bought, uh, MS-DOS and Windows from 1.0 to 311, Windows for Work Groups, Windows NT Workstation, Windows 2000, Windows XP Home Edition, or Office...
[12:37.760 --> 12:38.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or a whole lot of things.
[12:38.640 --> 12:39.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, get on with it.
[12:39.380 --> 12:39.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Just three more.
[12:40.060 --> 12:41.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Office, Word, and Excel.
[12:41.160 --> 12:43.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, they will send you vouchers.
[12:43.700 --> 12:45.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: And these vouchers are good for anything.
[12:46.440 --> 12:49.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Computers, peripherals, or software.
[12:49.560 --> 12:53.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: When you buy any of those, you present the vouchers and you'll get cash back.
[12:54.220 --> 12:54.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[12:54.740 --> 12:55.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: And...
[12:55.180 --> 12:56.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: How much are these vouchers worth?
[12:56.720 --> 12:57.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it depends on what you bought.
[12:58.060 --> 13:00.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: If it's the, the operating software, it's 12 bucks.
[13:00.600 --> 13:02.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: If it's the other software, it's five bucks.
[13:02.820 --> 13:07.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: But you can trade and sell these to other people, or they can trade or sell them to you.
[13:08.480 --> 13:15.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: And if you ask for up to five of these items from, uh, the settlement, you don't need proof.
[13:16.680 --> 13:17.040]  Okay.
[13:17.440 --> 13:21.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you ask for more than five, they'll investigate and they will prosecute if you're lying.
[13:21.620 --> 13:23.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: But if you ask for up to five, you don't need proof.
[13:23.720 --> 13:28.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're implying that anybody right now can just get up to a hundred bucks from Microsoft without presenting any proof whatsoever.
[13:28.920 --> 13:30.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, I'm not saying that at all.
[13:30.180 --> 13:31.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: You can get these vouchers.
[13:31.580 --> 13:33.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, vouchers that are good for cash.
[13:33.200 --> 13:33.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: It would be wrong.
[13:33.320 --> 13:36.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not saying that you're, you're, you're encouraging people to do this.
[13:36.440 --> 13:38.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe you're warning people not to do this, but...
[13:38.420 --> 13:38.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, don't do this.
[13:39.040 --> 13:39.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[13:39.500 --> 13:40.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Don't do that.
[13:40.220 --> 13:41.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: But you could, if you were...
[13:41.420 --> 13:42.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not going to add up.
[13:42.920 --> 13:45.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Five items at 12 bucks is the maximum each.
[13:45.720 --> 13:46.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's 60.
[13:46.500 --> 13:50.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you just got Office Word and excelled five times that, that's 25.
[13:50.200 --> 13:50.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[13:50.660 --> 13:51.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not a hundred bucks.
[13:52.040 --> 13:52.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's close.
[13:52.660 --> 13:53.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's getting there.
[13:53.260 --> 13:53.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, okay.
[13:54.040 --> 14:00.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: But there's more information at either Microsoft, www.microsoftnysettlement.com.
[14:01.340 --> 14:02.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: And why Settlement?
[14:02.280 --> 14:02.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's New York.
[14:02.940 --> 14:03.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[14:03.220 --> 14:04.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's only for New York.
[14:04.540 --> 14:06.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: You had to buy this in New York.
[14:06.380 --> 14:07.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you have to live in New York?
[14:07.440 --> 14:08.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not too sure about that.
[14:08.740 --> 14:14.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I've read this, this fine print and it, it just boggles the mind, even though it's almost in English.
[14:14.940 --> 14:16.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, we're pretty boggled here.
[14:16.160 --> 14:17.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Redhack, what do you have on this?
[14:17.140 --> 14:20.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I was just going to make sure that you mentioned it was in New York.
[14:20.260 --> 14:20.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's all.
[14:20.740 --> 14:20.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[14:21.000 --> 14:21.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: You aware of this?
[14:22.200 --> 14:24.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, Jim was telling me about it earlier.
[14:24.540 --> 14:25.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, okay.
[14:25.280 --> 14:26.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's what that lecture was about.
[14:26.480 --> 14:33.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think it's pretty safe to say that most people who have used computers have either approached or exceeded that five limit very, very easily.
[14:34.220 --> 14:34.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[14:34.640 --> 14:36.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you're assuming that most people use computers use Microsoft.
[14:37.620 --> 14:38.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, yeah.
[14:38.500 --> 14:43.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's difficult to buy a computer without it being preloaded to the Microsoft software unless you, you know, build it from scratch.
[14:44.020 --> 14:52.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what's also interesting is that the lawsuit was targeted at Microsoft, which doesn't seem to be the person who's forcing you to use their software.
[14:53.120 --> 14:58.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you're purchasing a computer from, you know, IBM, Dell, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[14:59.560 --> 15:02.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're the people who basically say, okay, are... No.
[15:03.180 --> 15:22.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: Microsoft used to have, which was the target of many lawsuits, including, I assume, this one, deals with the larger computer vendors such as Dell, where Dell would pay Microsoft per computer shipped, which is not the same as paying them per copy of Microsoft operating system shipped.
[15:22.620 --> 15:38.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: So even if you were to buy a PC from Dell and somehow convince Dell not to put Microsoft on it, Dell would still have to pay Microsoft, which is a violation of all kinds of antitrust laws and the cause of this settlement.
[15:38.540 --> 15:39.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mike is right.
[15:39.460 --> 15:41.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: That is exactly the basis for this lawsuit.
[15:42.660 --> 15:44.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, but is that the case anymore?
[15:44.720 --> 15:45.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because I know some companies...
[15:45.920 --> 15:48.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, because it was deemed to be illegal, so they had to stop.
[15:48.300 --> 15:48.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[15:48.800 --> 15:50.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: A restraint of trade in the state of New York.
[15:51.000 --> 15:52.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: So that kind of thing doesn't happen anymore.
[15:52.580 --> 16:09.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and once more, the website is microsoftnysettlement.com, and there's an 877 toll-free number, 877-867-6133, where you can get the claim forms and get some money back from your hard deal with Microsoft.
[16:10.020 --> 16:10.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Interesting.
[16:10.400 --> 16:25.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Many of our listeners may have traveled to New York City, for instance, and purchased computers or controls or something that used Microsoft software during that time window.
[16:25.560 --> 16:33.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because, you know, like, there's a lot of stores in New York that sell computers, and, you know, you could have been there on vacation and bought computers there.
[16:34.100 --> 16:37.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Or you could have bought a computer online and not realized that you were buying it from someone in New York.
[16:37.920 --> 16:38.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's right.
[16:38.380 --> 16:41.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Or you could have just talked about New York with somebody while you were using your computer.
[16:41.600 --> 16:43.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: I guess there's all sorts of ways you can justify this.
[16:43.800 --> 16:46.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: You could have listened to this very radio program, which emanates from New York.
[16:47.020 --> 16:47.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[16:47.420 --> 16:48.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's right, too.
[16:48.280 --> 16:51.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: I guess all listeners automatically get free money from Microsoft.
[16:51.820 --> 16:52.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[16:52.120 --> 16:53.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, thanks, Jim, for that info.
[16:53.280 --> 16:59.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, this is an interesting letter that a friend of mine got, and I think it just shows what banks are doing these days.
[16:59.200 --> 17:04.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, we always hear about banks losing their information on customers, this confidential information.
[17:05.220 --> 17:06.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you notice what happens when...
[17:06.780 --> 17:12.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Has anyone ever gotten a letter like that where, whoops, we left the computer disk lying outside in the street.
[17:12.580 --> 17:14.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Someone must have taken it, and your information might have been in there.
[17:14.940 --> 17:16.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: I got one just recently.
[17:16.260 --> 17:18.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: And what do they usually say in that same letter?
[17:19.880 --> 17:21.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: That you're not at risk or something.
[17:21.840 --> 17:22.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[17:22.140 --> 17:24.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I'm going to read this to you, and you tell me if there's something...
[17:24.000 --> 17:25.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't read the letter, so I don't know what they said.
[17:26.100 --> 17:26.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[17:26.440 --> 17:26.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I'll just bet.
[17:26.960 --> 17:27.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: I know I got one.
[17:27.420 --> 17:29.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll just bet in that letter is something similar to this.
[17:30.760 --> 17:39.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Dear person, we are writing today to inform you about an incident that may have affected the privacy of your personal information with Washington Mutual.
[17:39.340 --> 17:43.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: We've been notified that a courier van that transports daily bank processing work was stolen.
[17:44.200 --> 17:50.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: We are working closely with law enforcement regarding this incident and sincerely regret any inconvenience this situation may cause.
[17:50.180 --> 17:54.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: We wanted to notify you so we can help you take immediate action to protect yourself.
[17:54.280 --> 17:59.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: We encourage your vigilance over your financial affairs during the next 12 to 24 months.
[18:01.040 --> 18:04.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know why just those particular amounts of months.
[18:04.920 --> 18:08.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: So attention thieves wait 25 months before doing...
[18:08.380 --> 18:08.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, there's more, though.
[18:09.020 --> 18:09.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: There's more.
[18:09.780 --> 18:12.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Ask that you report any issues of concern to us.
[18:13.220 --> 18:21.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, to assist you with this process, we would like to offer you a free one-year membership in a credit monitoring service provided by Equifax.
[18:21.540 --> 18:22.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: You see where this is going?
[18:22.880 --> 18:27.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Every time this happens, they offer you a free enrollment in Equifax.
[18:28.400 --> 18:32.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I have a feeling that there really wasn't any ripoff of a van.
[18:32.600 --> 18:39.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, my friend who got this letter and is a customer of Washington Mutual called the very number that's on this piece of paper, and they had no idea what he was talking about.
[18:39.680 --> 18:41.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: They didn't know anything about a van being stolen.
[18:41.960 --> 18:44.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, you know, how do we find out if this is even true?
[18:44.680 --> 18:52.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: I suspect that just coming up with weird scenarios just so you'll get a little bit more worried and buy their product, which is what you wind up doing after the one year is over.
[18:53.060 --> 18:54.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: There has to be a police report if a van was stolen.
[18:55.080 --> 18:56.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, go get it then.
[18:56.380 --> 18:58.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: What police precinct is going to have this?
[18:58.260 --> 18:58.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: We don't know.
[18:58.960 --> 18:59.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[18:59.340 --> 19:00.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: Washington Mutual is huge.
[19:00.540 --> 19:01.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: They have branches on Mars.
[19:01.840 --> 19:05.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's not even a Washington Mutual van that was stolen.
[19:05.420 --> 19:08.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: You'd have to know the name of the courier service they used.
[19:08.100 --> 19:08.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's right.
[19:08.740 --> 19:09.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's so vague.
[19:09.480 --> 19:12.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they don't say when or anything like that.
[19:12.380 --> 19:16.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: So this, to me, is the sleaziest of all scams, if it is, in fact, what I think it is.
[19:16.740 --> 19:36.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's vaguely reminiscent of the well-known Homeland Security Color Scheme Warning Scam, in that it makes people afraid of some sort of vague threat and urges you to do something that really isn't going to affect your safety anyway.
[19:37.420 --> 19:39.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right, but it'll line their pocketbooks nicely.
[19:40.160 --> 19:43.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, Mike, does the memory jar a little bit?
[19:43.220 --> 19:44.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do you think maybe they might have offered you a free year?
[19:44.860 --> 19:46.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's not the letter I got.
[19:46.900 --> 19:59.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: There's some massive thing going on that not a lot is known about, where debit cards in certain large retail stores, the numbers were kept improperly.
[19:59.640 --> 20:01.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: So they're reissuing a lot of debit cards.
[20:02.320 --> 20:10.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: Particularly, I hear Citibank is affected, although, in my case, it was a very small local bank in my hometown that I still have an account with.
[20:11.080 --> 20:11.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[20:11.560 --> 20:19.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: And they were sending me a new debit card anyway, and then they sent me another one because of this security breach.
[20:19.420 --> 20:23.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was all these stores that I never shop at and certainly never used that card at.
[20:23.600 --> 20:24.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know what was going on.
[20:24.900 --> 20:27.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: But did they ever make any offer to you, by the way, use this?
[20:27.600 --> 20:27.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
[20:27.660 --> 20:29.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: They did not try and sell me anything.
[20:29.320 --> 20:29.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[20:29.720 --> 20:29.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[20:30.080 --> 20:30.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: Walter?
[20:30.460 --> 20:36.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I've got letters like that, and one of them told me to go out and get my own credit protection, and they didn't make me an offer.
[20:37.460 --> 20:39.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I don't know which is worse.
[20:39.980 --> 20:41.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, they didn't offer to help you.
[20:41.520 --> 20:41.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: They just told you?
[20:41.820 --> 20:41.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: No.
[20:42.020 --> 20:44.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: They said you should probably get some help and...
[20:44.940 --> 20:47.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll bet if you call them, though, they might have some ideas.
[20:48.140 --> 20:48.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[20:48.460 --> 20:48.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[20:48.720 --> 20:50.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's very good for these credit monitoring agencies.
[20:50.900 --> 20:55.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: The other thing about this credit protection is that they're not protecting you.
[20:55.240 --> 20:59.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're protecting the bank, because if an unauthorized charge is made, the bank is liable.
[20:59.740 --> 21:00.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: You're not liable.
[21:00.860 --> 21:01.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[21:01.500 --> 21:02.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's something people need to remember.
[21:03.440 --> 21:08.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, yeah, try to keep your credit card numbers safe, just because of the hassle.
[21:09.000 --> 21:14.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: But if somebody does figure out your credit card number and charge something, you're not the one that's going to be held responsible, assuming you catch it.
[21:14.680 --> 21:16.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you don't catch it, obviously, you're going to wind up paying.
[21:16.860 --> 21:18.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: I got a notice in the mail, too.
[21:18.560 --> 21:18.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yeah?
[21:19.240 --> 21:20.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: From ING Direct.
[21:21.280 --> 21:22.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: This was about three years ago.
[21:22.720 --> 21:25.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: These are the people with the park benches and the commercials.
[21:25.620 --> 21:28.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, they're really strange ads with the orange dot or whatever.
[21:29.120 --> 21:42.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: I got a postcard in the mail from them about three years ago, not warning me about careless handling of my account information, but the postcard itself had my name, address, and bank account number on the postcard.
[21:43.940 --> 21:46.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not in a sealed envelope, on the postcard.
[21:46.100 --> 21:48.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: On the outside of the postcard was my bank account number.
[21:48.720 --> 21:52.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I called them about this, and nobody seemed to know what to do about it.
[21:52.560 --> 21:55.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Then I got another one a couple of weeks later, and then I was really annoyed.
[21:56.320 --> 21:59.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I tracked down their chief privacy officer.
[22:00.440 --> 22:01.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: We actually have one.
[22:01.760 --> 22:04.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: And he was sort of flummoxed by this whole thing.
[22:04.540 --> 22:05.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: And he investigated.
[22:05.140 --> 22:08.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's like, oh, yeah, it was a marketing glitch.
[22:08.340 --> 22:10.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: We put all the account numbers on these postcards.
[22:10.260 --> 22:13.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: We mailed out direct mail, and we're sure I won't let it happen again.
[22:13.400 --> 22:22.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it was just grossly, you know, careless use of customer bank account information on a freaking postcard.
[22:23.180 --> 22:23.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[22:23.400 --> 22:25.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I no longer do business with ING Direct.
[22:26.440 --> 22:36.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, the phone company used to do things like that maybe 10, 15 years ago, where they send out postcards with, you know, your pin on it or something, or make it very easy so that someone could see through an envelope and see your pin.
[22:37.340 --> 22:38.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, we should have learned by now.
[22:38.960 --> 22:39.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's 2006.
[22:40.100 --> 22:42.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: And why trust the credit protection agencies?
[22:42.680 --> 22:45.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: They can equally lose your information.
[22:45.660 --> 22:46.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[22:46.280 --> 22:47.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: And then what do you do?
[22:47.500 --> 22:49.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, or blacklist you and say all kinds of things that aren't true.
[22:50.340 --> 22:52.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Listen to people who really don't know what they're talking about.
[22:52.940 --> 22:54.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's, yeah, it's...
[22:54.600 --> 22:55.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Why give them money?
[22:55.500 --> 22:56.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's what I don't understand.
[22:57.140 --> 23:00.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: There was a good demonstration at the CBIT show a few days ago.
[23:00.440 --> 23:05.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: We saw of technology and countermeasures technology along these lines.
[23:05.920 --> 23:15.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: There was a demonstration of these so-called skimmers that are hardware devices attached at the front of automated teller machines, ATM machines.
[23:16.140 --> 23:26.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: And these skimmers will read your mag stripe information and, with a tiny camera, record the keystrokes you make on the keypad.
[23:26.660 --> 23:31.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: And these things are very common in Europe, these ATM skimmers.
[23:31.720 --> 23:37.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're somewhat prevalent, according to the people at the company in New York and other parts of the U.S.
[23:37.820 --> 23:41.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: A friend of mine at work was hit by one of these in Philadelphia a couple years ago.
[23:41.960 --> 23:43.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: But pretty interesting devices.
[23:43.680 --> 23:44.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're not very large.
[23:45.080 --> 23:53.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: But they contain, you know, a small computer and a face, a false front that snaps over part of the ATM machine that looks like their regular machine.
[23:53.720 --> 24:00.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you kind of have to look carefully to see if one of these things is glommed on the front of the ATM machine that you're sliding your mag stripe card into.
[24:01.320 --> 24:13.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: But supposedly, as companies develop some technology and they're working with the Diebold and some of the other ATM machine manufacturers to prevent this from being a problem, they were kind of cagey about how it worked.
[24:13.880 --> 24:18.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: And when I pointed, asked them some pointed technical questions, they got all upset and just wouldn't talk to me anymore.
[24:19.480 --> 24:27.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Some of these things are actually really, really well designed and very difficult to tell that this is not part of the ATM unless you're actually familiar with the ATM.
[24:27.520 --> 24:31.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I saw a video of one where it basically snapped over the sliding thing.
[24:31.320 --> 24:32.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I think it even had a motor in it.
[24:32.540 --> 24:34.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: So you'd put your card in and it would feed the card.
[24:34.820 --> 24:39.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: So it would actually go into the ATM while reading the mag stripe and then, you know, come back out.
[24:39.520 --> 24:40.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's pretty interesting.
[24:40.260 --> 24:40.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Interesting.
[24:41.220 --> 24:42.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: People... This has happened in New York.
[24:42.780 --> 24:47.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: People were arrested for installing some of these in some banks in Chinatown a little while ago.
[24:48.300 --> 24:53.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I think their devices were a little obvious to find.
[24:54.200 --> 24:54.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[24:54.820 --> 24:57.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, we should go out looking for some because some of them are pretty obvious.
[24:58.040 --> 24:59.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: They practically say fake ATM on them.
[25:00.800 --> 25:01.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, moving on.
[25:02.120 --> 25:16.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: The Terrorist Screening Center has celebrated its second anniversary as keeper of the government's terrorist watch list on Tuesday by disclosing it had received about 6,000 positive hits of known or suspected terrorists.
[25:17.080 --> 25:29.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: The watch list, which is updated daily, contains about 350,000 identities, which include partial names and identifying marks, but about 200,000 names of real people, known individuals.
[25:30.680 --> 25:31.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's unbelievable.
[25:31.860 --> 25:32.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Can you imagine that?
[25:32.900 --> 25:36.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: 200,000 potential terrorists are out there, according to these guys.
[25:36.720 --> 25:37.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: But here's the thing.
[25:37.560 --> 25:41.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're not potential terrorists, because if they were potential or actual terrorists, they would be arrested.
[25:41.840 --> 25:42.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, not if they're not in this country.
[25:43.200 --> 25:45.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, but a lot of these people are in this country.
[25:46.520 --> 25:46.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hey, Kennedy.
[25:47.540 --> 25:54.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: When they say 6,000 positive hits, does that include, like... I mean, a hit could be anything.
[25:54.140 --> 25:56.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: It could be, well, okay, well, we got this eight-year-old who has the same name.
[25:57.000 --> 25:57.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, what's a positive hit?
[25:57.980 --> 25:59.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: You mean an actual match to the real person?
[25:59.780 --> 26:00.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's the problem.
[26:00.900 --> 26:03.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: There were all these reports of, like, these babies, like...
[26:03.760 --> 26:07.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, babies and, like, getting hit with this stuff, you know.
[26:08.680 --> 26:13.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: According to this stuff, most of the 200,000 are overseas and have never tried to enter the United States.
[26:13.420 --> 26:15.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, I don't know.
[26:15.500 --> 26:21.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, if there are 200,000 people out there who are suspected terrorists, you know, I think that that's got to say something right there.
[26:21.940 --> 26:27.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, why are so many people into so-called terrorism, and what exactly is the agenda here?
[26:27.420 --> 26:28.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's not a lot of people.
[26:28.960 --> 26:32.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: There are six... there are six billion people in the world.
[26:32.340 --> 26:32.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[26:32.680 --> 26:32.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right?
[26:33.060 --> 26:34.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: 200,000 is, is what?
[26:35.140 --> 26:36.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Less than 1%.
[26:36.240 --> 26:42.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, still, I mean, you know, 1% of the people in, in, in, in the world want to destroy, you know, people.
[26:42.860 --> 26:44.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: A lot less than 1%.
[26:44.440 --> 26:45.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's a lot less than that anyway.
[26:46.200 --> 26:47.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: What's the, what's the size of the U.S.
[26:48.280 --> 26:48.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: military anyway?
[26:48.960 --> 26:51.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it still seems like a, a, a huge number.
[26:51.360 --> 26:56.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I just thought it was, uh, interesting that they're actually trying to keep track of all these people from foreign countries.
[26:57.060 --> 26:58.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: How do they get the information to start with?
[26:58.860 --> 26:59.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, what kind of intelligence?
[27:00.120 --> 27:03.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, they make it up, or whatever they do, it's not at all accurate.
[27:03.360 --> 27:14.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I mean, even the people who they actually have in Guantanamo, uh, some of them, yeah, are members of Al-Qaeda or whatever, but a lot of them, they're just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
[27:14.160 --> 27:14.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[27:14.360 --> 27:16.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: What, what constitutes being considered a terrorist?
[27:16.720 --> 27:18.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, being a foreign fighter?
[27:18.520 --> 27:21.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you know, a lot of people are foreign fighters if they're in their own country.
[27:21.880 --> 27:32.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, you could, there was, there was that DHS memo that I saw maybe a year and a half ago that had, you know, uh, be careful of, of protesters that may have musical instruments.
[27:32.440 --> 27:32.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[27:32.620 --> 27:35.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or, you know, financial institutions or whatever, uh, things like that.
[27:36.080 --> 27:39.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I think they have a very, very broad idea of who could be a terrorist.
[27:40.280 --> 27:45.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, you know, if you've gone to a protest, maybe in another country or even in this country, you could be on a list.
[27:45.920 --> 27:46.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Who knows?
[27:46.220 --> 27:46.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[27:46.420 --> 27:47.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: And there's no way to find out.
[27:47.420 --> 27:49.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're certainly not going to show that list to anybody.
[27:49.100 --> 27:50.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: They, you know, it's funny that they're even giving out numbers.
[27:51.160 --> 27:54.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or even, say, what criteria they use to put someone on that list.
[27:54.460 --> 27:57.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, because if they do that, that's giving out national security information.
[27:57.580 --> 28:01.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: The old sources and methods, uh, ruse.
[28:01.900 --> 28:03.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're like, oh, we can't reveal our sources and methods.
[28:03.980 --> 28:04.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's national security.
[28:05.260 --> 28:05.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's right.
[28:05.680 --> 28:06.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: We get away with it.
[28:07.160 --> 28:07.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, okay.
[28:08.160 --> 28:09.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, what else has been going on?
[28:09.780 --> 28:12.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, well, we, uh, unveiled the new, uh, HOPE website.
[28:12.840 --> 28:13.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: You guys will see it.
[28:13.780 --> 28:17.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, brand new HOPE website is, uh, it's, um, well, this is a piece of paper.
[28:17.600 --> 28:22.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: It doesn't really reflect the, the majesty of the site, but if you go to www.hope.net, you'll see it.
[28:23.240 --> 28:26.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, we are, um, uh, soliciting speakers.
[28:26.940 --> 28:34.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: If, if you have a panel or a talk that, uh, you think would be a good idea, please, uh, go to the site or just email speakers at 2600.com.
[28:35.000 --> 28:39.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: I really want to, uh, get a good turnout, uh, as far as, um, panels and speakers of all different sorts.
[28:40.100 --> 28:47.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's, um, the, um, the conference is coming up this July, July 21, 22, and 23 here in New York City at the Hotel Pennsylvania.
[28:48.440 --> 28:51.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we, um, we also are looking for volunteers.
[28:52.100 --> 28:54.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, we are having a meeting this Friday.
[28:54.720 --> 28:57.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: I believe it starts at six o'clock at the Citigroup Center.
[28:57.860 --> 29:01.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, if you want to be part of the conference, show up to that.
[29:01.300 --> 29:03.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Same place that we have the 2600 meetings at.
[29:03.660 --> 29:06.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, we're going to be having... That's 53rd and Lexington.
[29:06.680 --> 29:08.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, between, uh, Lexington and 3rd.
[29:09.180 --> 29:12.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: And just come to the lobby if you want to be a part of the conference in any way.
[29:12.220 --> 29:17.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: There'll be people there to answer your questions, take down your name, and, uh, do other things.
[29:17.540 --> 29:19.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're going to be having regular meetings up until the conference.
[29:19.760 --> 29:20.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's going to be a whole lot of fun.
[29:21.400 --> 29:28.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, Leszlo and I ran into some, uh, males and females, uh, here in Europe who are planning to attend the Hope, uh, number six conference as well.
[29:28.680 --> 29:29.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that's good.
[29:29.640 --> 29:30.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, human beings you ran into.
[29:31.260 --> 29:31.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[29:31.960 --> 29:32.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[29:32.380 --> 29:33.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that's, that's nice to know.
[29:34.080 --> 29:38.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, please spread the word, uh, through the Hungarian streets if you, if you can.
[29:38.740 --> 29:42.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, we want as many people from around the world to show up as possible.
[29:43.020 --> 29:43.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: And around the corner?
[29:44.260 --> 29:44.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's right, that's right.
[29:45.040 --> 29:45.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you're in New York.
[29:46.040 --> 29:55.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's especially good, um, if you're in New York and you want to give a talk because it's a lot, uh, simpler for you, obviously, to get to the conference than to, um, fly from all over the world.
[29:55.140 --> 30:00.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, of course, we also want people from all over the world to come, too, and, uh, and share their perspective.
[30:00.760 --> 30:02.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: We, we also want people from New Jersey.
[30:03.180 --> 30:12.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: And the reason we want people from New Jersey is that the state legislature of New Jersey wants to make anonymous That's a smooth segue there.
[30:12.100 --> 30:12.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Why don't you tell us about that?
[30:13.520 --> 30:25.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, someone introduced a bill that essentially says that if you want to post anonymously, your ISP has to know your real name and address and all sorts of information.
[30:25.900 --> 30:29.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: So in case it's ever subpoenaed, it has to go back to you.
[30:29.440 --> 30:37.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Never mind the fact that generally subpoenas do get back to the real person behind them with the technology that we have now.
[30:37.160 --> 30:53.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: This would essentially make postings where you would go on to Yahoo or whatever and get a mailbox and an address and then post through that impossible to do unless you were from a fixed IP address.
[30:54.180 --> 30:55.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: How would this be enforced?
[30:56.060 --> 30:58.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, you could bounce through a proxy in another country and...
[30:58.900 --> 30:59.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
[31:00.100 --> 31:00.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.
[31:00.880 --> 31:09.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: The list of things that they would have to ban technically just keeps rising and rising as more and more people think about this.
[31:09.180 --> 31:16.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: And never mind the fact that the Supreme Court has already ruled that physical pamphleting in the United States can be anonymous.
[31:18.900 --> 31:26.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's no difference between physical pamphleting and the Internet equivalent thereof, which the state legislature of New Jersey is trying to end.
[31:26.500 --> 31:30.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, even if it passes, this should be struck down.
[31:30.780 --> 31:31.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[31:31.380 --> 31:33.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Interesting development out of New Jersey there.
[31:33.540 --> 31:40.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Also, there's new developments on the Google case, a big article in yesterday's New York Times.
[31:40.420 --> 31:47.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, this is the one involving the United States government wanting to know bits of information from Google and Google not wanting to tell them.
[31:47.880 --> 31:48.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, the U.S.
[31:48.400 --> 31:50.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: government is the one that Google won't cooperate with.
[31:50.440 --> 31:50.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.
[31:50.900 --> 31:51.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[31:51.160 --> 31:52.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: They'll cooperate with the Chinese, but not the U.S.
[31:52.680 --> 32:02.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, after the Justice Department drastically reduced its request for information from Google, a federal judge said on Tuesday that he intended to approve at least part of that request.
[32:02.720 --> 32:08.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: The government first subpoenaed web data from Google last August as part of its defense of an online pornography law.
[32:08.800 --> 32:27.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: At a hearing in Federal District Court in San Jose, Judge James Ware, what a great name to have if you're ruling on a computer case, Ware, W-A-R-E, said that in supporting the government's more limited request, he would nonetheless pay attention to Google's concerns about its trade secrets and the privacy of its users.
[32:27.440 --> 32:35.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: What the government is now requesting is a sample of 50,000 website addresses in Google's index instead of a million, which it was demanding until recently.
[32:36.120 --> 32:44.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it is asking for just 5,000 search queries compared with an earlier demand for an entire week of queries, which could have amounted to billions of search terms.
[32:45.940 --> 32:51.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: How much information in there could be of concern to people who have used Google?
[32:51.260 --> 32:54.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: And how much is just of concern to Google themselves?
[32:54.820 --> 32:57.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't understand what they want this information for.
[32:57.620 --> 33:04.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: I guess they want to know what people are searching for, but does this necessarily link back to what people are doing at what computers?
[33:04.180 --> 33:12.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I read somewhere that they wanted to take these search queries and then run them themselves on Google and see what came up or something crazy like that, which, you know, if they want to...
[33:12.960 --> 33:16.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, for some online pornography case, what, are they trying to see what pornography you can find?
[33:16.600 --> 33:18.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, they can just put in a couple of terms.
[33:19.640 --> 33:32.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: The gist of this is that the federal government, or this Bush administration, has asked their Justice Department to make pornography their number one threat, even behind terrorism, believe it or not, in investigations.
[33:32.000 --> 33:57.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they're trying to reliven laws that were struck down as unconstitutional, like the COPA, the Child Online Pornography Act, the CDA, the Communications Decency Act, all which were very vague approaches to saying, well, information shouldn't be posted on the Internet without really specifying what indecent was or vague terms like that.
[33:58.060 --> 34:11.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they need to specify... the feds believe they need to specify or show how much porn is easily searched for in order to justify a reincarnation of one of these unconstitutional laws.
[34:11.480 --> 34:14.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: So that's the justification behind it, apparently.
[34:14.440 --> 34:17.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: I would like to see them, you know, enforce something like...
[34:17.480 --> 34:20.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, the problem with the Internet is it's a world medium.
[34:20.420 --> 34:25.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's not... unfortunately, the United States controls it, in a manner of speaking.
[34:25.540 --> 34:26.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, I mean, it's a world medium.
[34:26.720 --> 34:31.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'd like to see them, you know, shut down websites in other countries because they get upset about pornography.
[34:31.700 --> 34:42.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, according to Google's lawyer, Albert Ghideri, he says that this new request has 99.99% of Google unexposed.
[34:43.080 --> 34:44.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: This teeny sliver will tell them nothing.
[34:45.280 --> 34:50.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: This would have been a very different case if the government walked in the door and said we need 50,000 URLs and 1,000 searches.
[34:50.300 --> 34:51.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's doubtful we would have been in court.
[34:52.020 --> 34:53.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: We got to where we wanted.
[34:53.480 --> 34:56.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: So they're claiming victory, and I guess they're going to give them that information now.
[34:56.920 --> 35:01.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't really see how it's any different than giving them a million if it's meaningless information either way.
[35:03.220 --> 35:07.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, the problem is that the government is not doing its own research.
[35:07.960 --> 35:20.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's relying on just any information that anyone has they think is theirs to use in interests that are not necessarily the interests of the party that created that information.
[35:20.480 --> 35:21.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, I disagree, Mike.
[35:22.040 --> 35:28.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: What the government is doing is trying to figure out whether or not search engines are used by people looking at porn.
[35:28.940 --> 35:38.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: If people looking at porn are using Google, the government will say, see, see, porn is more of a danger than you say it is, and we should shut it down.
[35:38.940 --> 35:43.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, now they're asking for 50,000 search requests.
[35:44.080 --> 35:48.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're hoping that people will have searched for naked, underage girls.
[35:49.100 --> 35:56.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, okay, but they're asking for 50,000 search requests, all right, and they're not necessarily asking for one searching for pornography.
[35:56.760 --> 35:59.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: What if the 50,000 they ask for have nothing to do with pornography?
[35:59.540 --> 36:03.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: What if just by chance, are they going to be very upset and ask for more?
[36:03.200 --> 36:07.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think it's 1,000 queries and 50,000, like, returned URLs or something like that.
[36:07.440 --> 36:07.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[36:07.760 --> 36:07.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[36:08.500 --> 36:11.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, it doesn't sound like they're targeting one particular thing.
[36:11.340 --> 36:15.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're just hoping that because so many people are searching for these terms that, you know, they're going to get that.
[36:15.780 --> 36:21.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, actually, I think this case is coming from what Bernie S.
[36:21.600 --> 36:25.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: mentioned, COPPA, COPA, the Child Outline Protection Act.
[36:25.280 --> 36:35.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: I believe the government is trying to argue that filtering software isn't as good as more drastic measures.
[36:35.760 --> 36:43.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think there are laws about filtering in libraries, and I think it's directly related to the COPA.
[36:43.300 --> 36:47.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: So you think something... I guess a proposal for something stronger is going to come out of this?
[36:48.020 --> 36:48.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[36:48.380 --> 36:51.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think that's what the government is trying to use this information for.
[36:51.780 --> 36:52.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Interesting.
[36:52.160 --> 36:55.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: The government is trying to defend one of these laws.
[36:55.720 --> 36:58.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's been up and down and up and down in the courts.
[36:58.460 --> 37:06.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: And so they're trying to argue that the law is constitutional, and apparently to do so, they feel they need to prove that there is pornography on the Internet or something.
[37:07.020 --> 37:10.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: But the whole point here is that the law is irrelevant.
[37:10.240 --> 37:16.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's no way to control the content, and all these attempts are pretty much futile.
[37:16.220 --> 37:19.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: And how would you connect the search queries to the fact that children are looking?
[37:19.300 --> 37:23.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, just to see how easy it is to find, because I feel like a lot of the queries would be adults trying to find you.
[37:23.880 --> 37:24.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but it could have been a child.
[37:24.940 --> 37:26.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: I guess that's all they need.
[37:26.080 --> 37:26.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: I guess.
[37:26.760 --> 37:29.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, is it for child pornography or children looking at pornography?
[37:29.180 --> 37:31.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: See, the thing is, we don't know because the government's not telling us.
[37:31.340 --> 37:36.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're just demanding the information, and it's up to us to speculate what they could possibly want it for.
[37:36.180 --> 37:39.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: And in a few years, I guess we'll find out when they impose new draconian laws.
[37:40.000 --> 37:46.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: But in any event, we have to move on because we have a million other things to address, including listener phone calls, which we haven't taken in quite some time.
[37:46.980 --> 37:48.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we'll be doing that in just a little bit.
[37:49.160 --> 37:53.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: We also have listener mail, and we welcome listener mail.
[37:53.760 --> 37:58.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: We love getting your feedback, opinions, comments, rants, raves, whatever.
[37:59.760 --> 38:03.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Send that email to oth@2600.com.
[38:04.560 --> 38:08.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: And if you prefer to send it in the postal mail, you can do that as well.
[38:08.880 --> 38:15.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Send it to, off the hook, care of WBAI, 120 Wall Street.
[38:16.940 --> 38:18.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, 10th floor.
[38:19.080 --> 38:20.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: You were miles away, weren't you, Walter?
[38:20.660 --> 38:22.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: I got a lot of things on my mind.
[38:22.120 --> 38:22.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[38:22.600 --> 38:23.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: New York, New York.
[38:23.980 --> 38:26.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: 1-0-0-0-5.
[38:26.180 --> 38:28.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you guys wanted to add more people to this.
[38:28.920 --> 38:31.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not our fault Walter can't get his line down.
[38:31.120 --> 38:32.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: You should talk to him after the show.
[38:32.900 --> 38:34.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: He's a product of his community.
[38:34.280 --> 38:35.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: He's a method actor.
[38:35.600 --> 38:38.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: He was trying to get a sense memory for the 10th floor.
[38:38.980 --> 38:43.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you know, the people on the radio can't see the King Lear look in his eyes as he's staring off into the distance.
[38:44.320 --> 38:44.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[38:45.100 --> 38:47.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's take a look at some of the listener email.
[38:48.000 --> 38:48.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is an interesting piece.
[38:49.000 --> 38:50.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: This actually came in from a little while ago.
[38:51.600 --> 39:02.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Off The Hook, I was talking to a friend who was a DJ and is selling his record collection on eBay to turn to more sophisticated equipment to mix MP3s, as this is easier to get hold of and has been cheaper to buy than imported records.
[39:03.100 --> 39:07.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: This made me start to think how it seems okay to sell your old records and CDs.
[39:07.360 --> 39:08.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: But what happens?
[39:08.480 --> 39:18.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Suppose you were struck for cash, or stuck for cash, rather, and you may have a whole load of music which you no longer want to have, and you want to sell your old secondhand MP3 collection.
[39:19.620 --> 39:25.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, the thing is, the prices for MP3s are almost equal to the cost of buying a CD if you go through iTunes.
[39:26.020 --> 39:27.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: So what do you do in a case like that?
[39:27.980 --> 39:29.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a very good question from Zed.
[39:29.920 --> 39:32.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks very much for bringing up this topic.
[39:32.640 --> 39:41.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, you buy music on iTunes, you pay, what is it, 99 cents a song, which I think is horrendous, and can you then sell that MP3?
[39:42.000 --> 39:46.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: You could sell the CD if you actually bought the CD, but are you allowed to sell this?
[39:46.020 --> 39:52.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, with the copy protection schemes in effect, there's no way to really kind of pass ownership to somebody else.
[39:52.040 --> 39:57.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: You buy the song, it's yours, your computer's allowed to play it, but you can't say, well, now I want to sell it to this other person.
[39:57.680 --> 40:00.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: But if you buy something, generally, you can also sell it.
[40:00.220 --> 40:03.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's the whole point of owning something, is that you can give it to somebody else.
[40:03.820 --> 40:06.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is exactly what the copyright industry is trying to go.
[40:06.340 --> 40:14.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're trying to move from a society where you do, in fact, own the thing you bought to one where you merely license it, and that license is non-transferable.
[40:14.500 --> 40:14.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[40:15.540 --> 40:20.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's something to keep in mind if you're going to get your music that way.
[40:20.360 --> 40:28.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think there's anything better than actually going out and having the original CD yourself, because then you have all the artwork, you have the lyrics, whatever.
[40:28.120 --> 40:29.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, it's got to be reasonably priced.
[40:29.860 --> 40:37.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: If they price it, you know, out of the reach of most people, they cannot be surprised when everybody wants to download these things, and it's out of control in that way.
[40:38.760 --> 40:39.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, yeah, be careful.
[40:40.060 --> 40:44.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Be careful if you download from commercial establishments, because you're not really getting what you're paying for.
[40:45.720 --> 40:47.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, my name is Michael.
[40:47.180 --> 40:49.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: I am from Regina, Saskatchewan in Canada.
[40:49.600 --> 40:56.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just wanted to say to you and the rest of the guys on Off The Hook that you guys do a hell of a job, and I've been listening to you for a long time now.
[40:56.100 --> 40:57.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: I also buy 2600.
[40:57.740 --> 40:58.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Great job on the magazine.
[40:58.940 --> 41:00.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: Off The Hook has become a Sunday ritual for me.
[41:01.060 --> 41:02.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: A Sunday ritual.
[41:02.580 --> 41:04.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's because I guess it's a Sunday in Regina now?
[41:05.740 --> 41:06.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is that how it works?
[41:07.100 --> 41:09.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, Canada is interesting.
[41:09.600 --> 41:10.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's nice.
[41:10.120 --> 41:14.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: So one day I get off of work that I can get up in the morning and listen to it on the 2600 website.
[41:14.260 --> 41:15.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: I clean the house while I listen.
[41:16.140 --> 41:16.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Isn't this great?
[41:16.740 --> 41:24.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: People are planning their week around the show and listening to us on different days while, you know, booming through the speakers as they're doing household chores.
[41:24.960 --> 41:29.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: My wife has recently got hooked on the show too, so we both listen as we clean the house together.
[41:30.200 --> 41:31.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, enough of me rambling.
[41:31.100 --> 41:32.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just wanted to say great job on the show.
[41:32.360 --> 41:33.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Keep up the phenomenal work.
[41:33.460 --> 41:34.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you very much, Michael from Regina.
[41:35.540 --> 41:38.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Off The Hook crew, you've been talking about old shows.
[41:38.380 --> 41:41.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: As I was going through the archives, I had the idea of listening to the first show after 9-11.
[41:42.200 --> 41:44.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have to admit there was a somber moment that actually made me cry.
[41:45.160 --> 41:47.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: All those emotions of that time came rushing back.
[41:47.840 --> 41:56.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was moved to do this because of the new movie called Flight 93 that is coming out soon about the flight that was hijacked on September 11th that was supposed to crash somewhere in D.C.
[41:56.560 --> 41:57.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think that's the one that crashed in the field.
[41:58.160 --> 42:03.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think that we really need to have a silent moment and remember that time and maybe play a clip of that show.
[42:03.120 --> 42:04.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, actually, we did do that.
[42:04.600 --> 42:05.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: We played a clip of that very show.
[42:06.060 --> 42:10.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think we need to never forget and constantly remind people of this, that we don't become comfortable again.
[42:11.100 --> 42:17.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: I know that a lot has happened since then, but it doesn't change the fact that many lives were lost and there was a great devastation that happened.
[42:17.280 --> 42:17.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: Signed, Doug.
[42:18.380 --> 42:18.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Interesting.
[42:19.320 --> 42:20.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know...
[42:20.120 --> 42:21.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: We can't become comfortable?
[42:21.340 --> 42:21.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[42:21.680 --> 42:27.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have a problem with that because I think that's something that we have to ask ourselves.
[42:27.880 --> 42:31.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do we really want to be living in this perpetual state of fear and paranoia where everything...
[42:31.780 --> 42:39.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, the police say, well, we can't build the new building because it has to be another 25 feet in because someone else could blow up a truck outside of it.
[42:39.360 --> 42:42.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you have to put barricades in front of every high-risk target.
[42:42.260 --> 42:46.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: All that does is move terrorists to low-risk targets and more people get killed as a result.
[42:47.400 --> 42:52.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, this whole issue of comfort is very fleeting in and of itself.
[42:53.080 --> 43:00.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, I don't see what any of this... any of this homeland security paranoia has gotten us at all except something to laugh at.
[43:00.680 --> 43:01.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Eventually, we'll become comfortable.
[43:02.300 --> 43:05.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, over history, many terrible things have happened.
[43:05.440 --> 43:07.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Cities burn, et cetera, et cetera.
[43:07.340 --> 43:09.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: And eventually, people get over it, you know.
[43:09.900 --> 43:17.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but when the whole direction of society changes as a result, how often does that change back, you know?
[43:17.960 --> 43:20.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're not just seeing reconstruction.
[43:20.360 --> 43:21.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, we're not seeing reconstruction.
[43:21.540 --> 43:26.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: What we're seeing are all these new laws, new rules, new ways of thinking.
[43:26.900 --> 43:28.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, we laughed at the color coding.
[43:29.160 --> 43:30.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, it's an accepted part of life.
[43:30.940 --> 43:35.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: We laughed at the name, Homeland Security, because it just sounded so science fiction, evil-ish.
[43:35.460 --> 43:37.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: And everybody uses it now.
[43:37.700 --> 43:39.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: We laughed at the barricades going up.
[43:39.460 --> 43:40.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're every place.
[43:48.800 --> 43:58.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Think about how much more inconvenient everything has become over the past couple of years after this and how the security aspect of it really hasn't changed at all.
[43:58.960 --> 43:59.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[43:59.380 --> 44:02.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, if you want to blow up a skyscraper, you can do it.
[44:02.420 --> 44:05.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: I hope I'm not, you know, really shocking anybody by saying that.
[44:05.680 --> 44:07.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not hard to be a terrorist.
[44:08.200 --> 44:10.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not very nice, but it's not hard.
[44:11.640 --> 44:19.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: And no matter what you do, no matter how many barricades you put up and how much you restrict free speech or whatever else you want to restrict, you're never going to change that.
[44:19.720 --> 44:24.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: So you might as well become comfortable in the fact that most people don't want to blow you up.
[44:25.340 --> 44:30.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: And think about the people who do and maybe think of the reasons why so many people seem to want to at the moment.
[44:30.740 --> 44:32.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm actually hopeful, Emmanuel.
[44:32.240 --> 44:32.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're hopeful.
[44:33.400 --> 44:44.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Today, here in Hungary, Budapest specifically, Laszlo and I observed and participated in a lot of in the streets celebrations.
[44:44.860 --> 44:49.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Today is the anniversary of Hungary's 1848 revolution.
[44:50.320 --> 44:58.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this country has been occupied by lots of different other countries and experienced really serious devastation.
[44:58.220 --> 45:03.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: A lot of the churches and other historic buildings we visited today had bullet holes and bomb holes in them still.
[45:03.880 --> 45:09.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm looking out over a bridge over the Danube River right now that was blown up by the Nazis in World War II.
[45:09.780 --> 45:12.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that was reconstructed and a lot of the stuff is reconstructed.
[45:12.880 --> 45:15.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: And these people we saw today celebrating did look comfortable.
[45:16.340 --> 45:17.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: They did not look afraid.
[45:18.140 --> 45:22.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they've experienced far more devastation than 3,000 people in the U.S.
[45:22.900 --> 45:23.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: who died.
[45:23.460 --> 45:27.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not to diminish that loss, but things can change.
[45:27.280 --> 45:28.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's all about people.
[45:28.600 --> 45:37.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: We saw huge throngs of people in the streets and in parks just really celebrating their freedom, which was hard won.
[45:37.820 --> 45:38.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: And in fact...
[45:38.580 --> 45:39.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, but you see, that's the thing.
[45:40.060 --> 45:41.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: They were fighting for their freedom.
[45:41.220 --> 45:43.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: They were occupied by, you know, a foreign power.
[45:44.140 --> 45:45.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: We are the power.
[45:45.660 --> 45:46.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, we're the only power.
[45:47.020 --> 45:52.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that's what scares me so much is the fact that there's no real resistance to it.
[45:52.860 --> 45:55.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, the whole rest of the world is having trouble resisting it.
[45:56.140 --> 45:58.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, you know, what's it going to take?
[45:58.340 --> 45:59.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm just saying it can be done.
[45:59.840 --> 46:03.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: I saw the Hungarians look comfortable and happy today.
[46:03.420 --> 46:05.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they've experienced far worse than we have.
[46:05.520 --> 46:14.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think if Americans get off their butts and really demand the freedoms back that they're losing over the past couple, three years, I think they'll get it.
[46:14.860 --> 46:16.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: But enough people have to demand it.
[46:16.060 --> 46:16.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah.
[46:16.920 --> 46:19.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that's the big if factor here.
[46:19.600 --> 46:21.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: When are people going to start demanding things?
[46:21.520 --> 46:22.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[46:22.180 --> 46:23.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's take some phone calls.
[46:23.260 --> 46:25.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212-209-2900 is our telephone number.
[46:26.040 --> 46:27.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: We haven't been taking calls for quite some time.
[46:27.820 --> 46:34.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: So it would be nice to see if any listeners are still out there and what you have to say and what's on your mind.
[46:34.540 --> 46:36.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212-209-2900.
[46:37.100 --> 46:40.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're on the air for another 14 minutes or so.
[46:40.780 --> 46:41.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie S.
[46:41.620 --> 46:44.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: joining us live from Budapest in Hungary.
[46:45.460 --> 46:47.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anything going on in the streets over there, Bernie?
[46:47.980 --> 46:49.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Lots of celebrations.
[46:51.560 --> 46:56.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just incredible concerts and flag waving and beer drinking.
[46:56.480 --> 46:58.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was really a lot of fun.
[46:58.560 --> 47:01.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: And people seem very happy and comfortable here.
[47:01.320 --> 47:01.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's good to see.
[47:02.040 --> 47:02.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: A lot of cops on the street?
[47:03.220 --> 47:04.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: I saw almost none.
[47:05.220 --> 47:07.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Amazing how we can go anywhere in Europe and that's the case.
[47:08.160 --> 47:08.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[47:08.500 --> 47:09.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's really weird.
[47:09.500 --> 47:09.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: We...
[47:10.160 --> 47:13.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Laszlo and I yesterday ventured a little too close to the parliament building.
[47:13.500 --> 47:17.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: We sort of hopped the fence to get a better look at the other side.
[47:17.240 --> 47:18.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: You just don't learn, do you?
[47:18.900 --> 47:20.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: We didn't know it was a secure area.
[47:20.480 --> 47:21.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, hopped the fence in front of parliament.
[47:22.080 --> 47:22.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, so what happened?
[47:22.820 --> 47:23.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sniper fire or what?
[47:23.980 --> 47:24.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, no.
[47:24.460 --> 47:25.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Somebody blew a whistle.
[47:25.380 --> 47:28.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: A police officer blew a whistle at us and said, no, you must go around this way.
[47:28.740 --> 47:29.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Like, oh, okay.
[47:29.840 --> 47:31.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: In the U.S., you probably would have been shot.
[47:32.060 --> 47:32.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's the ironic part.
[47:32.460 --> 47:35.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's true, but we just felt like, you know, it didn't look...
[47:35.200 --> 47:38.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: It weren't like barricades like there are around the Capitol building.
[47:38.920 --> 47:41.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was just like a little, you know, fence.
[47:41.120 --> 47:41.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: You could just sort of step...
[47:41.980 --> 47:42.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: It wasn't...
[47:42.460 --> 47:44.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: It didn't even resemble a fence for that.
[47:44.380 --> 47:45.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it just...
[47:45.200 --> 47:48.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: It didn't look opposing or oppressive.
[47:48.220 --> 47:48.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: It is.
[47:48.580 --> 47:50.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: And yet things aren't blowing up over there.
[47:50.220 --> 47:50.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Amazing.
[47:50.580 --> 47:51.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not at all.
[47:51.340 --> 47:51.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[47:51.600 --> 47:52.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's take a phone call.
[47:53.300 --> 47:53.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[47:53.980 --> 47:54.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on off the hook.
[47:54.900 --> 47:57.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, you know, you should have stayed on just a little bit longer.
[47:57.540 --> 47:58.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's try over here.
[47:58.820 --> 47:59.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[47:59.420 --> 47:59.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on off the hook.
[48:01.060 --> 48:01.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Go ahead.
[48:02.260 --> 48:02.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello.
[48:03.000 --> 48:03.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hi.
[48:03.340 --> 48:03.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: What's on your mind?
[48:04.980 --> 48:06.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: You guys are...
[48:06.120 --> 48:07.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: First of all, I love the show.
[48:07.760 --> 48:09.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: I listen to it whenever I have a chance.
[48:09.760 --> 48:11.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: But you guys are talking about Flight 93.
[48:12.600 --> 48:13.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Did you ever listen...
[48:13.700 --> 48:16.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Did you not listen to Loose Change and all the issues about that?
[48:16.160 --> 48:16.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: There was no blood.
[48:17.040 --> 48:18.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: There was no plane parts.
[48:18.340 --> 48:18.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing.
[48:18.600 --> 48:21.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, you know, I really...
[48:21.040 --> 48:24.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have such a problem with all these conspiracy theories concerning...
[48:24.040 --> 48:26.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Obviously, obviously, planes crashed.
[48:26.380 --> 48:27.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Buildings fell.
[48:27.260 --> 48:28.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, yeah, there's a cover-up.
[48:28.520 --> 48:30.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: But that's not where the cover-up is, I don't think.
[48:30.420 --> 48:30.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wait a minute.
[48:31.080 --> 48:31.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wait a minute.
[48:33.060 --> 48:34.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is clear.
[48:34.220 --> 48:35.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: There were no bodies there.
[48:35.660 --> 48:36.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: There was no blood.
[48:36.760 --> 48:38.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: They did a whole lot of excavation.
[48:38.320 --> 48:39.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: There was nothing there.
[48:39.080 --> 48:39.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, so let me ask you.
[48:40.000 --> 48:41.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Where are the bodies?
[48:41.140 --> 48:42.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Where are these people?
[48:42.440 --> 48:43.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: They don't know where they are.
[48:43.640 --> 48:44.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: There's no plane.
[48:44.220 --> 48:45.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: So they're being held someplace?
[48:46.480 --> 48:47.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: What's the statement in that?
[48:47.840 --> 48:48.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't understand it.
[48:49.200 --> 48:50.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: It makes no sense.
[48:50.820 --> 48:57.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: What was taking place clearly was that this was a false flag operation that was being done by people within the government.
[48:57.620 --> 48:58.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, God.
[48:58.640 --> 49:00.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, I just... I'm sorry.
[49:00.080 --> 49:01.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just don't have any patience for this.
[49:01.480 --> 49:03.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's the silliest thing ever.
[49:03.220 --> 49:06.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: What happened was people crashed planes into buildings, all right?
[49:07.000 --> 49:07.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: The buildings fell down.
[49:07.860 --> 49:08.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: The people in the planes died.
[49:09.360 --> 49:11.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Why, you know, why do you need more than that?
[49:11.520 --> 49:13.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Why do you need some kind of government conspiracy?
[49:13.140 --> 49:15.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Even if the government was behind it, they could have just done that.
[49:15.820 --> 49:20.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: They didn't have to, like, put explosives in the World Trade Center or kidnap people and hold them someplace else.
[49:20.260 --> 49:21.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Jim, you have something to contribute?
[49:21.760 --> 49:24.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Just to try to explain to that guy.
[49:24.540 --> 49:29.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: Back when I was with the Transit Authority, in 1980, two brothers are riding between train cars.
[49:30.000 --> 49:30.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: They both fell off.
[49:31.140 --> 49:34.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: The train is between 125th and 59th Street in Manhattan.
[49:34.440 --> 49:36.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's going 40 miles an hour.
[49:36.700 --> 49:41.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: They found no part of these two guys bigger than their pinky, okay?
[49:41.200 --> 49:46.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: So you've got a plane going 600 miles into the ground and you find nothing and you say that's a conspiracy?
[49:46.700 --> 49:51.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello, if a train can make people into ground hamburger meat, what can an airplane do?
[49:51.980 --> 49:52.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: A hell of a lot more, okay?
[49:52.820 --> 49:54.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or maybe the government did that too.
[49:56.380 --> 49:56.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[49:57.200 --> 50:04.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: There's this bizarre notion, actually, that only the United States government is the only entity powerful enough to do a lot of these things.
[50:04.720 --> 50:14.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's almost patriotic in a way, these conspiracy theories, that nobody else could possibly cause death but the United States government.
[50:16.140 --> 50:16.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[50:16.600 --> 50:18.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: We've got a corner on the market, don't we?
[50:18.340 --> 50:21.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's really weird, I find.
[50:21.300 --> 50:24.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, look, sure, it's possible something else could have happened.
[50:24.100 --> 50:26.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe they did put explosives in the World Trade Center, but does it really matter?
[50:26.640 --> 50:28.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: They did crash a plane into there.
[50:28.260 --> 50:29.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: That killed the people on the plane.
[50:29.340 --> 50:31.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, it probably messed up the building pretty good.
[50:32.140 --> 50:35.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I don't know where they're going with all these crazy theories.
[50:35.220 --> 50:38.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think it just obscures what's really going on.
[50:38.460 --> 50:40.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sure there's a cover-up of some sort, but we're never going to get to it.
[50:40.860 --> 50:44.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because just like with UFOs, only the Looney Tunes are the ones who get heard.
[50:44.580 --> 50:45.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know?
[50:45.180 --> 50:46.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's all sorts of things going on out there.
[50:47.220 --> 50:47.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[50:47.720 --> 50:47.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sorry.
[50:48.060 --> 50:49.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's just a button of mine.
[50:50.420 --> 50:51.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's take another phone call.
[50:52.300 --> 50:53.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: That was a good one, though.
[50:53.120 --> 50:53.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[50:53.500 --> 50:53.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[50:55.160 --> 50:57.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's probably the most frightening thing I've ever heard.
[50:57.240 --> 51:01.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: You guys categorically denying the cover-up for the 9-11 stuff.
[51:02.400 --> 51:02.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[51:02.880 --> 51:04.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, show me evidence.
[51:04.600 --> 51:05.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's no evidence.
[51:05.760 --> 51:06.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right?
[51:06.460 --> 51:08.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: I saw an airplane crash into a building.
[51:08.580 --> 51:10.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: I saw a building fall down.
[51:10.300 --> 51:10.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know?
[51:10.820 --> 51:12.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: What other evidence do you need?
[51:12.680 --> 51:18.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Evidence of planes circling the United States for like an hour without F-16s being scrambled.
[51:18.240 --> 51:25.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Or air traffic controllers being told to shred their documents and destroy them in separate garbage locations.
[51:26.020 --> 51:26.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[51:27.980 --> 51:28.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Show me proof of that.
[51:29.040 --> 51:30.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I mean, what are you getting at?
[51:31.580 --> 51:36.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm just saying that you guys bring up a lot of things, and this is one thing you're all in total agreement on.
[51:36.180 --> 51:37.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's kind of frightening.
[51:37.180 --> 51:38.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, maybe we're part of the conspiracy then.
[51:39.000 --> 51:39.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good Lord.
[51:39.800 --> 51:41.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: You have to be to be in the media, don't you?
[51:42.020 --> 51:43.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't get my conspiracy paycheck.
[51:43.940 --> 51:44.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[51:44.480 --> 51:44.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[51:46.120 --> 51:46.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.
[51:46.700 --> 51:47.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, go ahead.
[51:47.700 --> 51:49.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm calling in regards to...
[51:49.620 --> 51:52.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: I had a story on earlier about the payroll.
[51:53.160 --> 51:53.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[51:54.380 --> 51:55.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Ooh, I'm on delay.
[51:55.400 --> 51:55.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're on delay.
[51:56.100 --> 51:56.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[51:56.500 --> 51:57.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry.
[51:57.300 --> 51:58.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: You'll have to turn on your radio.
[51:58.440 --> 52:01.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, that actually happened to city employees who work for CUNY.
[52:02.420 --> 52:07.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: They, UPS lost all of the tapes with our payroll, and we got a letter from the state comptroller's office.
[52:07.760 --> 52:09.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: We got a letter from our union office.
[52:09.980 --> 52:16.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: We got a letter from the place where we're actually employed, but they did find the tapes after three days.
[52:16.180 --> 52:19.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, when you got these letters, they told you specifically what they were talking about.
[52:19.620 --> 52:21.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: They didn't just say, well, something got stolen.
[52:21.700 --> 52:22.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, they were pretty specific.
[52:22.260 --> 52:22.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[52:22.560 --> 52:26.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, in the case of the Washington Mutual letter, it's just, a van got stolen.
[52:26.340 --> 52:29.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: How would you like to have this for a year for free and then pay for it afterwards?
[52:29.400 --> 52:29.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, they didn't offer us anything.
[52:29.980 --> 52:30.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: They just, you know.
[52:30.800 --> 52:35.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, so it sounds like you had a real case, and the one that I read before is just, I think, part of a scam.
[52:36.160 --> 52:36.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[52:37.060 --> 52:37.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[52:37.620 --> 52:40.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: And if there is a cover-up for the workplace...
[52:40.840 --> 52:41.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[52:41.980 --> 52:42.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let me make this clear.
[52:42.840 --> 52:44.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think there is a cover-up for sure.
[52:45.240 --> 52:47.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: ...is involved somehow, but I don't know how.
[52:47.420 --> 52:47.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[52:47.880 --> 52:54.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just, I take exception to people who see something in front of them and say, no, there's something else going on there.
[52:54.700 --> 52:58.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, that's, I mean, it's obvious that a plane crashed into a building.
[52:58.160 --> 53:00.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's obvious that that's what caused the building to fall down.
[53:00.220 --> 53:00.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: But you know what?
[53:01.240 --> 53:07.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: If it didn't cause the building to fall down, if they just put explosives up and made that make the building fall down, why have the plane crash into it?
[53:07.480 --> 53:09.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Why not just blow up the building, you know?
[53:09.160 --> 53:12.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: If a plane didn't crash into the Pentagon, okay, then where's the plane?
[53:13.100 --> 53:14.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, they can't answer these questions.
[53:14.540 --> 53:16.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's almost silly.
[53:16.140 --> 53:17.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the plane's the cover-up.
[53:17.880 --> 53:18.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: The plane's the cover-up.
[53:18.900 --> 53:20.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do you understand this stuff, Red Hag?
[53:20.340 --> 53:21.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Please explain it to me.
[53:21.520 --> 53:24.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because every time I ask people these questions, I never get a straight answer.
[53:25.060 --> 53:29.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, so, you know, they say a plane didn't crash into the Pentagon because that's not what it looks like.
[53:29.720 --> 53:34.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: I say let's get another plane, crash it into the Pentagon, and tell ourselves what it really looks like.
[53:35.040 --> 53:36.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll bet it'll look pretty similar.
[53:36.280 --> 53:37.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if it doesn't, you know what?
[53:37.280 --> 53:38.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll admit I'm wrong.
[53:38.120 --> 53:41.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not saying that this happened, and I don't believe that it did.
[53:41.780 --> 53:50.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, I mean, if they planted explosives in the World Trade Center, and they wanted to cover it up, then they'd have to fly a plane into it to say, well, that's what caused it.
[53:50.640 --> 53:51.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's all I'm saying.
[53:51.340 --> 53:52.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't believe it for a second.
[53:53.000 --> 53:54.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: See, the thing is, we haven't done this before.
[53:55.040 --> 53:58.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: We haven't crashed planes into skyscrapers, so we don't really know what's going to happen.
[53:58.640 --> 54:01.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: It very well could have been designed to fall just like that.
[54:01.180 --> 54:01.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[54:01.940 --> 54:03.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's try it again and see what happens.
[54:04.320 --> 54:05.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, no, let's not.
[54:05.340 --> 54:07.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Does anyone believe our government has the competence to pull this off?
[54:07.840 --> 54:08.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's the other thing.
[54:09.500 --> 54:11.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Have you ever known the government to do anything competently?
[54:12.540 --> 54:14.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: And this is not something I think they could pull off.
[54:14.860 --> 54:15.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Not quite like that.
[54:15.980 --> 54:17.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: I wouldn't know what the reason for it would be, either.
[54:17.920 --> 54:19.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe someone will call in and tell me.
[54:19.460 --> 54:19.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[54:19.940 --> 54:20.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[54:20.480 --> 54:29.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't mind talking about this, but let's not just jump to conclusions and say, yeah, this is definitely what happened, because nobody really knows definitely what happened.
[54:29.940 --> 54:30.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[54:30.980 --> 54:31.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[54:31.520 --> 54:32.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[54:33.240 --> 54:33.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Go ahead.
[54:34.380 --> 54:34.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[54:35.700 --> 54:36.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's on your mind.
[54:36.160 --> 54:37.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[54:37.300 --> 54:41.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: One quick question for Bernie S., and then another question that's kind of technical.
[54:41.360 --> 54:42.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: You've got to make it fast.
[54:42.560 --> 54:42.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[54:42.940 --> 54:47.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bernie, how's the lodging and the food over there in Budapest is a reasonable price?
[54:48.540 --> 54:51.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a little pricey, but the hot springs are terrific.
[54:52.500 --> 54:52.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[54:53.180 --> 54:54.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I recommend that alone.
[54:54.600 --> 54:55.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: What do we have?
[54:55.180 --> 54:55.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: What's that?
[54:55.800 --> 54:57.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have a loose change DVD.
[54:57.800 --> 54:59.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, this is the conspiracy thing.
[54:59.720 --> 55:00.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Apparently there's two editions.
[55:01.020 --> 55:02.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm not talking about a conspiracy thing.
[55:02.380 --> 55:04.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, no, someone just gave us a DVD in the studio.
[55:04.680 --> 55:05.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: I wanted to get off of the conspiracy thing.
[55:05.840 --> 55:07.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, we appreciate it.
[55:07.180 --> 55:07.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, please.
[55:08.040 --> 55:08.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[55:08.700 --> 55:11.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Budapest is a very interesting Eastern European city.
[55:12.080 --> 55:12.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sorry, caller.
[55:12.940 --> 55:13.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Go ahead.
[55:13.180 --> 55:13.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: What?
[55:13.880 --> 55:14.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[55:14.340 --> 55:16.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, the other question is, and it's technical.
[55:16.400 --> 55:16.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[55:17.160 --> 55:20.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have a station that's just below you on frequency, 91.1.
[55:21.120 --> 55:22.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: You mean 99.1?
[55:23.200 --> 55:23.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: 99.1.
[55:23.920 --> 55:24.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: The religious people, yeah.
[55:25.520 --> 55:26.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I don't know.
[55:26.420 --> 55:27.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not so much anymore.
[55:28.200 --> 55:30.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: But the deviation is incredible.
[55:31.020 --> 55:31.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[55:32.580 --> 55:33.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely incredible.
[55:33.520 --> 55:33.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: What are you saying?
[55:33.980 --> 55:35.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're interfering with us?
[55:35.360 --> 55:37.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: They are the loudest station on the dial.
[55:37.780 --> 55:44.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: You take a ride out 78, and from mile marker 36 to mile marker 32, all right?
[55:44.240 --> 55:48.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you can't even receive WBAI, and you can see the Empire State Building.
[55:49.260 --> 55:49.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's...
[55:49.700 --> 55:52.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you're hearing all about the voice of God, I guess, from the other people.
[55:53.020 --> 55:53.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, is it...
[55:53.480 --> 55:55.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, because they're on a different frequency.
[55:55.620 --> 55:59.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: All you're hearing is just the peak deviations.
[55:59.620 --> 55:59.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[56:00.000 --> 56:03.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is not so much a compressor thing that makes them loud.
[56:04.140 --> 56:14.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: They are the loudest, because when I tune down to their station, all right, my radio goes into clipping, you know, because it's exceeding the ability of the power supply to drive...
[56:14.580 --> 56:15.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: So they're over-modulating.
[56:15.740 --> 56:18.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's what a lot of commercial stations do.
[56:18.520 --> 56:22.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, over-modulating is a term that I put on an AM band, and deviated it's a term like...
[56:22.480 --> 56:24.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's over-modulating in deviation.
[56:24.440 --> 56:26.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're saying it's exceeding 75 kilohertz.
[56:26.520 --> 56:28.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, is there any way to measure this?
[56:28.200 --> 56:28.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[56:28.680 --> 56:28.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[56:29.220 --> 56:29.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Of course.
[56:29.840 --> 56:30.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I mean...
[56:30.280 --> 56:30.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Tell him fast.
[56:31.260 --> 56:33.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Without breaking into their transmitter, I mean, on the air.
[56:33.900 --> 56:35.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, the FCC can do this.
[56:35.360 --> 56:36.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is their job.
[56:36.920 --> 56:38.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: The FCC has a job.
[56:38.280 --> 56:39.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: And their job is to look at this stuff.
[56:39.840 --> 56:40.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: So we should...
[56:40.720 --> 56:41.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: If anyone has...
[56:41.280 --> 56:42.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think you should contact the FCC.
[56:43.700 --> 56:44.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: You want a conspiracy?
[56:44.760 --> 56:47.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that the President's administration has told them to do this.
[56:47.960 --> 56:48.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I think.
[56:48.820 --> 56:52.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, that's an interesting theory.
[56:53.060 --> 56:57.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: I guess there would be a hotline from Bush's office to a religious station somewhere in Jersey, but...
[56:57.160 --> 56:58.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: I drive out on 78 every once in a while.
[56:59.020 --> 57:00.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll check it out next time I'm out there.
[57:00.320 --> 57:01.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, check it out.
[57:01.100 --> 57:04.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, if there's interference issues, we should be told about it.
[57:04.340 --> 57:07.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: And of course, we here at WBAI can also do the looking into it.
[57:07.460 --> 57:08.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: But thanks for bringing it to our attention.
[57:08.560 --> 57:13.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're going to check into that and see if we hear, you know, signals that shouldn't be there.
[57:14.180 --> 57:15.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Please let us know.
[57:15.360 --> 57:18.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Again, our email address, oth@2600.com.
[57:19.520 --> 57:25.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: Music means our time is up for this week, but we'll be back again next week with another edition of Off The Hook.
[57:26.560 --> 57:30.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Please send us your email, your conspiracy theories, your feedback of all sorts.
[57:31.740 --> 57:33.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: oth@2600.com.
[57:33.220 --> 57:34.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Emmanuel Goldstein for Off The Hook.
[57:34.220 --> 57:34.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Have a good night.