[00:00.000 --> 00:13.300] [SPEAKER_01]: The Colorado ACLU is now working on trying to get the State Attorney-General's Office and Public Utilities Commission to investigate telephone companies for providing subscriber information to the National Security Agency.
[00:13.560 --> 00:18.000] [SPEAKER_01]: The remaining three Colorado peace protesters will be released from jail this week.
[00:18.200 --> 00:21.880] [SPEAKER_01]: For Free Speech Radio News, this is Maeve Conran in Boulder, Colorado.
[00:24.850 --> 00:30.010] [SPEAKER_00]: You've been listening to Free Speech Radio News from KPFK in LA, Amara Bogado.
[00:32.270 --> 00:36.030] [SPEAKER_15]: And it's WBAI New York, 7 o'clock time for Off The Hook.
[00:41.180 --> 00:45.720] [SPEAKER_04]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:46.620 --> 00:51.260] [SPEAKER_04]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[00:51.840 --> 00:59.480] [SPEAKER_04]: We couldn't get much worse, but from Diddley Bom, but the best is back from worst.
[01:00.020 --> 01:02.980] [SPEAKER_04]: I hope that's understood, from Diddley Bom!
[01:35.900 --> 01:36.820] [SPEAKER_15]: And good evening to everybody.
[01:37.000 --> 01:38.500] [SPEAKER_15]: The program is Off The Hook.
[01:39.120 --> 01:40.160] [SPEAKER_15]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
[01:41.520 --> 01:43.000] [SPEAKER_15]: Joined by Bernie S.
[01:43.080 --> 01:43.480] [SPEAKER_15]: in Philadelphia.
[01:45.320 --> 01:47.860] [SPEAKER_15]: You weren't expecting me to say your name first, were you?
[01:48.660 --> 01:49.500] [SPEAKER_15]: He's not even there.
[01:49.680 --> 01:50.280] [SPEAKER_15]: Bernie, are you there?
[01:50.740 --> 01:51.280] [SPEAKER_15]: I'm here.
[01:51.360 --> 01:51.840] [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, there you are.
[01:51.920 --> 01:52.060] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[01:52.940 --> 01:53.520] [SPEAKER_07]: No, I wasn't.
[01:53.560 --> 01:55.420] [SPEAKER_07]: I was listening to the seven-second delay.
[01:55.640 --> 01:56.160] [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, okay.
[01:56.320 --> 01:57.800] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, catch up.
[01:58.140 --> 01:58.720] [SPEAKER_15]: Sure was.
[01:59.120 --> 02:01.320] [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, joined also by Mike.
[02:01.840 --> 02:02.160] [SPEAKER_15]: Hi.
[02:02.340 --> 02:03.220] [SPEAKER_15]: Is that Walter over there?
[02:03.500 --> 02:03.820] [SPEAKER_15]: Hi.
[02:03.960 --> 02:04.240] [SPEAKER_15]: How you doing?
[02:04.360 --> 02:05.320] [SPEAKER_15]: You're in a different place.
[02:05.460 --> 02:06.020] [SPEAKER_15]: I can't hear you.
[02:06.300 --> 02:07.500] [SPEAKER_15]: Um, you can't?
[02:07.500 --> 02:08.580] [SPEAKER_15]: I'm talking right to you.
[02:08.580 --> 02:09.140] [SPEAKER_15]: What are you talking about?
[02:09.240 --> 02:09.860] [SPEAKER_15]: The headphone is, uh...
[02:09.860 --> 02:10.840] [SPEAKER_15]: You're a few feet away from me.
[02:10.960 --> 02:12.300] [SPEAKER_15]: You have the headphones around your neck.
[02:12.380 --> 02:13.120] [SPEAKER_15]: Put them over your ears.
[02:13.180 --> 02:13.660] [SPEAKER_15]: That's how they work.
[02:13.780 --> 02:16.600] [SPEAKER_15]: There are bare wires sticking out from under the console here.
[02:16.760 --> 02:18.680] [SPEAKER_15]: All right, well, you're going to have to rewire the console then.
[02:18.740 --> 02:19.740] [SPEAKER_15]: It's not the first time we've had to do that.
[02:19.740 --> 02:21.240] [SPEAKER_15]: I don't want to short out the radio station.
[02:21.560 --> 02:22.360] [SPEAKER_15]: Of course you do.
[02:22.800 --> 02:24.820] [SPEAKER_15]: But, um, continuing with our introductions.
[02:25.860 --> 02:26.180] [SPEAKER_15]: Redbird.
[02:26.440 --> 02:26.860] [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[02:27.000 --> 02:27.320] [SPEAKER_15]: Redhack.
[02:27.460 --> 02:27.700] [SPEAKER_15]: Hello.
[02:27.700 --> 02:27.780] [SPEAKER_15]: Hello.
[02:28.220 --> 02:29.840] [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, Jim.
[02:30.000 --> 02:31.380] [SPEAKER_15]: I'd like to say panda.
[02:33.300 --> 02:33.740] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[02:34.120 --> 02:35.920] [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, it's been an active week.
[02:36.180 --> 02:39.320] [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, all sorts of, uh, fun things have, um, have been going on.
[02:39.440 --> 02:44.200] [SPEAKER_15]: But I think, first and foremost, we should, uh, get some, some business out of the way.
[02:44.440 --> 02:48.660] [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, I think, uh, a lot of people might know what it is that we're talking about.
[02:48.880 --> 02:49.540] [SPEAKER_15]: I don't.
[02:51.040 --> 02:51.940] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, now you do.
[02:52.080 --> 02:52.220] [SPEAKER_15]: Oh.
[02:53.200 --> 02:58.540] [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, this is our, our old number station mystery that appeared on, um, various phone numbers.
[02:58.840 --> 03:00.200] [SPEAKER_15]: It's not really a radio station.
[03:00.340 --> 03:01.140] [SPEAKER_15]: It appeared on phone numbers.
[03:01.280 --> 03:06.180] [SPEAKER_15]: And it drove everybody crazy trying to figure out just what it was that this meant.
[03:06.800 --> 03:07.360] Group.
[03:10.120 --> 03:10.460] Group.
[03:10.700 --> 03:11.040] [SPEAKER_14]: One.
[03:11.240 --> 03:11.460] [SPEAKER_14]: Five.
[03:12.340 --> 03:12.900] [SPEAKER_14]: Group.
[03:13.220 --> 03:13.520] [SPEAKER_14]: Four.
[03:13.720 --> 03:14.060] [SPEAKER_14]: One.
[03:14.240 --> 03:14.500] [SPEAKER_14]: Five.
[03:15.420 --> 03:15.980] [SPEAKER_14]: Zero.
[03:16.300 --> 03:16.580] [SPEAKER_14]: One.
[03:16.740 --> 03:17.040] [SPEAKER_14]: Three.
[03:17.240 --> 03:17.520] [SPEAKER_14]: Zero.
[03:38.680 --> 03:46.340] [SPEAKER_15]: This whole thing was some kind of, uh, experiment put on by, get this, members of the Los Angeles 2600 meeting.
[03:46.520 --> 03:52.060] [SPEAKER_15]: And it just goes to show how far flung, uh, we are when we don't even know what, uh, other 2600 meetings are up to.
[03:52.280 --> 04:09.200] [SPEAKER_15]: But, yes, uh, it's, it's, it's quite a, quite an interesting, um, uh, experiment that they ran here to basically, uh, I guess, talk about, uh, or, or learn about how information can be spread unwittingly through other people.
[04:09.320 --> 04:10.520] [SPEAKER_15]: Is that how you interpreted it, Bernie?
[04:11.660 --> 04:11.920] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[04:12.080 --> 04:14.920] [SPEAKER_07]: And it was, uh, it was an amazingly successful experiment, I thought.
[04:15.060 --> 04:23.240] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, they, uh, they, they were simulating a, uh, shortwave spy numbers broadcast, which had kind of been going on for decades and hobbyists listened to.
[04:23.780 --> 04:29.940] [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, I happen to belong to a, uh, a group of hobbyists who, uh, who monitored these broadcasts and we were on a mailing list.
[04:30.500 --> 04:37.260] [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, I saw a post about this on the mailing list and brought it, uh, brought the attention of this show.
[04:37.400 --> 04:38.820] [SPEAKER_15]: Now, they, they posted it.
[04:39.140 --> 04:40.360] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, they posted it themselves.
[04:40.480 --> 04:40.600] [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[04:40.600 --> 04:43.280] [SPEAKER_15]: One of the people there said, hey, guys, can you figure this out?
[04:43.440 --> 04:44.400] [SPEAKER_15]: You, you found it.
[04:44.480 --> 04:48.000] [SPEAKER_15]: And then we talked about it on the radio and that's when things started to explode from what I understand.
[04:48.080 --> 04:56.840] [SPEAKER_15]: Then it got picked up by Slashdot and a bunch of other sources and, uh, and then, then we almost messed the whole thing up by, by making a fake one of our own.
[04:56.920 --> 05:00.180] [SPEAKER_15]: And I believe, Mike, you have a, a prepared statement to read to these people.
[05:00.680 --> 05:04.920] [SPEAKER_03]: The problem is that the prepared statement I have is encrypted with a one-time pad.
[05:05.080 --> 05:06.500] [SPEAKER_03]: So it could really say anything at all.
[05:07.140 --> 05:07.840] [SPEAKER_15]: Oh my God.
[05:07.840 --> 05:11.540] [SPEAKER_15]: You're not even going to express any kind of, uh, regret for your actions.
[05:11.660 --> 05:12.200] [SPEAKER_15]: It was your idea.
[05:12.320 --> 05:13.280] [SPEAKER_15]: I just want to make it clear.
[05:13.360 --> 05:14.220] [SPEAKER_15]: It was your idea.
[05:14.820 --> 05:18.360] [SPEAKER_15]: Nobody else at the show or at the magazine had anything at all to do with it.
[05:18.460 --> 05:21.760] [SPEAKER_15]: In fact, we, we pleaded, we begged you not to go forth with it.
[05:21.820 --> 05:22.400] [SPEAKER_15]: Is that so?
[05:22.400 --> 05:25.460] [SPEAKER_15]: But you, yeah, a short memory, uh, you, you have there.
[05:25.560 --> 05:25.760] [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[05:25.940 --> 05:29.500] [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, and, um, but you did it anyway and it was, it was a promotion for the Hope Conference.
[05:30.340 --> 05:35.580] [SPEAKER_15]: I guess it kind of, uh, kind of annoyed those people because, well, first of all, understand we had no idea what was going on.
[05:35.760 --> 05:42.300] [SPEAKER_15]: This could have been, you know, spies from the Soviet Union for all we know that were desperately trying to get messages out of it from a time warp.
[05:42.780 --> 05:49.780] [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, so basically we figured we'd never find the answer to any of these, um, any of these crazy numbers going out there.
[05:50.740 --> 05:52.320] [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, so, yeah, it was revealed.
[05:52.460 --> 05:54.180] [SPEAKER_15]: It was revealed this, uh, past weekend.
[05:54.460 --> 06:01.520] [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, in fact, all of the, um, all the messages have now been decrypted or, or revealed at least.
[06:01.520 --> 06:03.160] [SPEAKER_08]: I have a question about that, actually.
[06:03.320 --> 06:03.560] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, go ahead.
[06:03.880 --> 06:09.560] [SPEAKER_08]: One, one of the things that they said was that, you know, most of those messages were encrypted with a one-time pad.
[06:09.740 --> 06:14.060] [SPEAKER_08]: How do we know that the decrypted message was actually the message that they encrypted?
[06:14.360 --> 06:16.920] [SPEAKER_08]: Because they didn't look like one-time pad encoded messages.
[06:17.160 --> 06:22.240] [SPEAKER_15]: But did you, did you look recently at their, their site where they basically said what all the messages are?
[06:22.360 --> 06:25.740] [SPEAKER_08]: I looked at the initial articles and some of them had some of the messages up that were...
[06:25.740 --> 06:26.640] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, all the messages are up now.
[06:26.640 --> 06:41.040] [SPEAKER_15]: So, what they have is basically, if you go to projectevil.org, that's the organization that was behind this, they will explain how each message was decrypted.
[06:41.600 --> 06:45.300] [SPEAKER_15]: According to... they had a competition for the 10th message.
[06:45.300 --> 06:47.080] [SPEAKER_15]: They had it at the conference over the weekend.
[06:48.580 --> 06:52.500] [SPEAKER_15]: And someone named, well, some organization or person, I don't know, T.O.T.
[06:53.140 --> 06:56.880] [SPEAKER_15]: won after a marathon 16-hour and 20-minute session.
[06:57.200 --> 07:02.040] [SPEAKER_15]: They say the code was, and I'm probably going to pronounce this wrong, a visioneer cipher.
[07:02.520 --> 07:03.620] [SPEAKER_15]: You guys familiar with this?
[07:04.240 --> 07:04.640] [SPEAKER_07]: Vignere.
[07:05.460 --> 07:06.080] [SPEAKER_15]: Vignere, okay.
[07:06.440 --> 07:08.920] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you're nodding, Jim, so why don't you tell us what that is.
[07:09.020 --> 07:10.960] [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not that familiar with it, but it's a...
[07:10.960 --> 07:12.900] [SPEAKER_15]: Is that where you simply place letters in a different place?
[07:15.640 --> 07:25.360] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a classic cipher used by hand-decrypted messages using a one-time pad.
[07:25.560 --> 07:32.560] [SPEAKER_07]: It's been used for decades and decades by intelligence operatives in various far-flung nations.
[07:32.740 --> 07:34.460] [SPEAKER_17]: Well, basically, isn't it...
[07:34.460 --> 07:35.120] [SPEAKER_17]: Excuse me.
[07:35.220 --> 07:40.240] [SPEAKER_17]: It's an extended Caesar cipher, isn't it, where the shift is based on some sort of passphrase?
[07:40.240 --> 07:43.260] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not necessarily a proportional shift.
[07:43.280 --> 07:45.860] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a one-letter-for-one-letter substitution.
[07:46.820 --> 08:01.400] [SPEAKER_02]: In the traditional Caesar cipher, you may have plaintext A becoming a B, plaintext B becoming a C, or, you know, extended over, plaintext A becoming an M, plaintext B becoming an N.
[08:02.920 --> 08:06.360] [SPEAKER_02]: Vignere will make it a bit different.
[08:06.620 --> 08:08.080] [SPEAKER_02]: A may be M.
[08:08.360 --> 08:08.640] [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[08:08.640 --> 08:09.940] [SPEAKER_15]: B may be Z.
[08:10.940 --> 08:11.260] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[08:12.060 --> 08:16.480] [SPEAKER_15]: And from what I understand, you need some sort of a phrase to get it started.
[08:16.740 --> 08:17.440] [SPEAKER_17]: It's basically...
[08:17.440 --> 08:18.900] [SPEAKER_17]: No, basically, it's like a grid, right?
[08:19.000 --> 08:19.340] [SPEAKER_17]: You have...
[08:19.340 --> 08:22.120] [SPEAKER_17]: In one direction, you have every kind of Caesar cipher, right?
[08:22.300 --> 08:22.780] [SPEAKER_17]: So then...
[08:22.780 --> 08:26.900] [SPEAKER_17]: And those would be, say, sets A through Z, right?
[08:27.060 --> 08:27.380] [SPEAKER_17]: So...
[08:27.380 --> 08:28.400] [SPEAKER_17]: And each one is a different shift.
[08:28.500 --> 08:30.700] [SPEAKER_17]: So, like, A would shift at one, B would shift at two, et cetera.
[08:30.900 --> 08:32.700] [SPEAKER_17]: And then your passphrase is used...
[08:32.700 --> 08:33.760] [SPEAKER_17]: So, say your passphrase is cat.
[08:33.760 --> 08:39.760] [SPEAKER_17]: So, first, you'd use the alphabet that shifted three, and then you'd use the alphabet that shifted one, things like that.
[08:39.960 --> 08:40.640] [SPEAKER_15]: That's how it works.
[08:41.460 --> 08:45.580] [SPEAKER_15]: Get a load of the hint they gave at the DEFCON conference to break that tenth one.
[08:45.640 --> 08:47.660] [SPEAKER_15]: When DEFCON is online, there is no hope.
[08:49.520 --> 08:50.400] [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, that's brilliant.
[08:51.020 --> 08:54.900] [SPEAKER_15]: So, yeah, it's all been figured out.
[08:55.040 --> 08:58.680] [SPEAKER_15]: Now, the one thing I would like to ask them, it really was pretty cool.
[08:58.780 --> 09:06.320] [SPEAKER_15]: And, you know, if we had known, if we had known that it was something inside the community, we definitely wouldn't have messed with it in any way.
[09:07.300 --> 09:10.000] [SPEAKER_15]: But we figured that this might never be figured out.
[09:10.140 --> 09:11.200] [SPEAKER_15]: It probably was something real.
[09:11.500 --> 09:13.760] [SPEAKER_15]: What I would like to find out from these guys...
[09:15.240 --> 09:21.120] [SPEAKER_15]: And they explained how they got the music by basically someone's iPod played the music, and they thought it would be a good bridge.
[09:21.260 --> 09:21.680] [SPEAKER_15]: It certainly is.
[09:21.980 --> 09:26.260] [SPEAKER_15]: I would like to know, though, how did you get the numbers?
[09:26.380 --> 09:31.200] [SPEAKER_15]: I think there was an explanation posted where they just basically said they called people at random and got numbers.
[09:31.220 --> 09:32.840] [SPEAKER_15]: That doesn't sound quite right.
[09:32.900 --> 09:38.220] [SPEAKER_15]: These sound like, I don't know, automated, bizarre numbers of sorts in some cases.
[09:38.220 --> 09:42.200] [SPEAKER_15]: Sometimes they sound like random people, I suppose.
[09:42.400 --> 09:49.900] [SPEAKER_15]: But there must be, there must be in existence someplace, recordings of the original, where the person was saying a string of numbers, perhaps.
[09:50.280 --> 09:52.940] [SPEAKER_15]: And I'd sure like to hear that, especially the person saying three.
[09:53.700 --> 09:56.640] [SPEAKER_15]: Because doesn't the person saying three sound like they're saying P?
[09:57.540 --> 09:58.400] [SPEAKER_15]: Doesn't it sound that way?
[09:58.940 --> 10:00.920] [SPEAKER_15]: Couldn't you get a better recording of the word three?
[10:01.080 --> 10:02.740] [SPEAKER_15]: That's bugging me.
[10:02.840 --> 10:03.420] [SPEAKER_15]: It really is.
[10:03.760 --> 10:05.240] [SPEAKER_15]: We'll have to file a complaint.
[10:05.380 --> 10:05.900] [SPEAKER_15]: Hey, listen, listen.
[10:06.320 --> 10:06.640] [SPEAKER_14]: Zero.
[10:06.940 --> 10:07.220] [SPEAKER_14]: One.
[10:08.340 --> 10:10.980] [SPEAKER_15]: It sounds like he's saying P. There's definitely a T in there.
[10:10.980 --> 10:11.640] [SPEAKER_14]: P. Zero.
[10:11.900 --> 10:12.160] [SPEAKER_15]: Five.
[10:12.160 --> 10:12.900] [SPEAKER_15]: That's not a three.
[10:13.380 --> 10:13.480] [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[10:13.580 --> 10:13.760] [SPEAKER_15]: Six.
[10:13.960 --> 10:14.160] [SPEAKER_15]: Zero.
[10:14.460 --> 10:17.240] [SPEAKER_15]: And I assume that's not my voice saying six, even though it sounds like me.
[10:17.460 --> 10:17.480] [SPEAKER_14]: Six.
[10:17.500 --> 10:17.700] [SPEAKER_14]: Zero.
[10:17.940 --> 10:18.240] [SPEAKER_14]: Five.
[10:18.540 --> 10:18.760] [SPEAKER_14]: One.
[10:18.940 --> 10:19.160] [SPEAKER_14]: Zero.
[10:19.300 --> 10:20.840] [SPEAKER_15]: But I'd like to hear the rest of what they were saying.
[10:21.060 --> 10:22.220] [SPEAKER_15]: But good job.
[10:22.520 --> 10:23.440] [SPEAKER_15]: ProjectEvil.org.
[10:23.660 --> 10:24.700] [SPEAKER_15]: So now the point of...
[10:24.700 --> 10:25.020] [SPEAKER_15]: Sorry.
[10:26.040 --> 10:26.440] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, go ahead.
[10:26.600 --> 10:26.820] [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead.
[10:27.240 --> 10:31.140] [SPEAKER_07]: It's worth noting that the Project Evil people are not at all upset with us.
[10:31.280 --> 10:37.360] [SPEAKER_07]: They emailed me back and they said, we couldn't possibly have known what we were walking into, so it's no big deal.
[10:37.380 --> 10:38.060] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, they got upset.
[10:38.120 --> 10:40.840] [SPEAKER_15]: They got upset at one point when we put out the fake one.
[10:40.900 --> 10:43.040] [SPEAKER_15]: I know they were upset then, and rightfully so.
[10:43.520 --> 10:47.340] [SPEAKER_15]: But again, nobody had any idea what was going on, so we were just having a bit of fun with it.
[10:47.400 --> 10:52.720] [SPEAKER_15]: It is interesting, though, and very ironic that it's all inside basically the same community.
[10:54.380 --> 10:59.020] [SPEAKER_15]: And I just wonder if we drove the spy agencies completely crazy with all this.
[10:59.200 --> 11:00.940] [SPEAKER_17]: So now the point of it is not...
[11:00.940 --> 11:04.880] [SPEAKER_17]: Because it was using a one-time pad, obviously, no random person could decrypt it.
[11:04.940 --> 11:12.240] [SPEAKER_17]: So the idea was that other sources would publish the numbers or publish the audio so that then somebody could anonymously get the information?
[11:12.380 --> 11:12.860] [SPEAKER_17]: Is that the idea?
[11:14.340 --> 11:14.740] [SPEAKER_17]: Gosh.
[11:15.420 --> 11:16.320] [SPEAKER_17]: I don't even know.
[11:16.320 --> 11:18.540] [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, basically, you're getting other media...
[11:18.540 --> 11:25.660] [SPEAKER_17]: So you have this number, but you're getting other people to kind of distribute what the message is, and then your agents can pick it up anonymously without calling the number.
[11:25.660 --> 11:26.100] [SPEAKER_17]: I suppose.
[11:26.300 --> 11:28.800] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it's being passed around by all these unwitting people.
[11:28.940 --> 11:29.080] [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[11:29.500 --> 11:31.660] [SPEAKER_15]: But you got to somehow make it known to those people.
[11:31.820 --> 11:37.380] [SPEAKER_15]: But there are all sorts of little Easter eggs that are inside, too, which is also on their site that you can find.
[11:37.460 --> 11:50.160] [SPEAKER_15]: But my favorite, my favorite is if you take the first letter of every city that the phone number appeared in, you get New York, San Francisco, Atlanta, those were the first three, what are the first three letters, first letters of those cities?
[11:50.380 --> 11:50.620] [SPEAKER_15]: NSA.
[11:50.620 --> 11:50.780] [SPEAKER_15]: NSA.
[11:51.420 --> 11:54.780] [SPEAKER_15]: Then Little Rock, Ottawa, and Lubbock, LOL.
[11:55.340 --> 12:02.280] [SPEAKER_15]: And then the final ones, Orlando, Milwaukee, Fort Lauderdale, Gulfport, OMFG.
[12:03.940 --> 12:04.700] [SPEAKER_15]: Nicely done.
[12:04.860 --> 12:05.080] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[12:05.320 --> 12:08.080] [SPEAKER_15]: That's www.projectevil.org.
[12:08.540 --> 12:10.080] [SPEAKER_07]: Emmanuel, one last thing about this.
[12:10.840 --> 12:29.200] [SPEAKER_07]: I got the impression these guys were thrilled and very pleased that we broadcast this on the air, which, as some of our listeners know, is also a somicast on International Shortwave at 50,000 watts from the state of Maine, which is heard through North and South America,
[12:29.440 --> 12:42.260] [SPEAKER_07]: which is perfect for this type of message, because the whole inspiration behind this message were these spy numbers broadcasts that originally appear, and still continue to this day, appear on shortwave.
[12:42.700 --> 12:48.120] [SPEAKER_07]: So it's just sort of like a full circle thing that nobody ever expected, and they were very pleased with that.
[12:48.380 --> 12:53.600] [SPEAKER_15]: And of course, you can hear real spy stations if you turn on your shortwave radio and just sort of wander around.
[12:53.760 --> 12:55.700] [SPEAKER_15]: There's no set broadcast schedule, as far as I know.
[12:56.620 --> 12:57.120] [SPEAKER_15]: They just appear.
[12:57.360 --> 12:58.160] [SPEAKER_07]: Between 2 and 13 megahertz.
[12:58.300 --> 13:06.440] [SPEAKER_07]: If you tune around between 2 and 13 megahertz in the evening, you're likely to stumble on one of these things, and they're really spooky when you stumble on them.
[13:06.580 --> 13:06.940] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, they are.
[13:07.020 --> 13:08.980] [SPEAKER_15]: Sometimes they're just computer voices reading things.
[13:09.040 --> 13:10.120] [SPEAKER_15]: Sometimes they're in foreign languages.
[13:10.780 --> 13:14.500] [SPEAKER_15]: One thing is for sure, the chances of you cracking it are next to nothing.
[13:15.100 --> 13:15.580] [SPEAKER_15]: Right?
[13:15.820 --> 13:16.080] [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[13:16.240 --> 13:16.420] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[13:16.620 --> 13:19.480] [SPEAKER_15]: So let's move on to things that we can't understand.
[13:20.360 --> 13:26.540] [SPEAKER_15]: Cell phones have been banned inside the five branches of the First National Bank in the Chicago area to enhance security.
[13:26.800 --> 13:27.100] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[13:27.440 --> 13:32.360] [SPEAKER_15]: Even using a cell phone in the bank's lobby may result in the person being asked to leave the premises.
[13:32.720 --> 13:36.860] [SPEAKER_15]: We ban cell phone use in the lobby because you don't know what people are doing.
[13:38.060 --> 13:39.520] [SPEAKER_15]: They're talking on the phone.
[13:39.900 --> 13:41.060] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, but you don't know what they're talking about.
[13:41.240 --> 13:42.340] [SPEAKER_15]: They could be talking about all sorts of things.
[13:42.860 --> 13:45.060] [SPEAKER_15]: That's according to Ralph Oster, a senior vice president.
[13:45.680 --> 13:47.980] [SPEAKER_15]: Cell phone cameras are also a worry.
[13:48.680 --> 13:54.020] [SPEAKER_15]: Oster said there have been holdups in which bandits were on the phone with lookouts outside while committing bank robbery.
[13:54.100 --> 13:55.140] [SPEAKER_15]: So it was that one woman who did that.
[13:55.280 --> 13:57.080] [SPEAKER_02]: She was on the cell phone bank robbery.
[13:57.100 --> 13:59.200] [SPEAKER_02]: With her boyfriend, that wasn't the lookout.
[13:59.460 --> 13:59.940] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought he was.
[14:00.240 --> 14:00.640] [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no.
[14:00.700 --> 14:01.540] [SPEAKER_02]: That was her boyfriend.
[14:01.540 --> 14:03.320] [SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't even helping her out?
[14:03.860 --> 14:04.400] [SPEAKER_02]: Advising her.
[14:04.580 --> 14:05.380] [SPEAKER_02]: And so this...
[14:05.380 --> 14:05.960] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you mean advising?
[14:06.080 --> 14:06.640] [SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't...
[14:06.640 --> 14:07.920] [SPEAKER_02]: Telling her how to rob a bank.
[14:08.120 --> 14:10.000] [SPEAKER_02]: Shouldn't he have done that before she went into the bank?
[14:10.440 --> 14:11.200] [SPEAKER_02]: That's my thought.
[14:11.400 --> 14:25.820] [SPEAKER_02]: So that raises the question, if you're a bank or a banker and you know that some idiot is going to come in who doesn't really know how to rob a bank and is going to ask for instructions on the cell phone, it's a question.
[14:25.820 --> 14:26.520] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is worse?
[14:26.660 --> 14:29.700] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you want them to be totally clueless and maybe screw up and kill somebody?
[14:29.780 --> 14:33.000] [SPEAKER_02]: Or do you want them to get some advice while they're in the bank?
[14:33.160 --> 14:40.900] [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, I'm still flabbergasted that she would call her boyfriend while she's robbing the bank to ask for instructions on how to rob a bank.
[14:41.020 --> 14:43.360] [SPEAKER_15]: That's the conversation you have in the diner the night before.
[14:43.680 --> 14:44.160] [SPEAKER_15]: All right?
[14:44.220 --> 14:45.040] [SPEAKER_15]: That's how that works.
[14:45.040 --> 14:45.740] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, maybe you do.
[14:45.940 --> 14:52.600] [SPEAKER_15]: But regardless, I think a much more intelligent way to deal with this is for banks to have cell phone jammers inside them.
[14:52.720 --> 14:58.160] [SPEAKER_15]: That way, if there is a holdup, they can simply press a button and all of a sudden communications are out.
[14:58.440 --> 15:06.240] [SPEAKER_15]: And if you need to make an emergency call and your phone system has been, say, sliced in half, you have the ability to do that.
[15:06.920 --> 15:07.840] [SPEAKER_02]: Aren't those illegal?
[15:09.300 --> 15:12.520] [SPEAKER_15]: Maybe not in banks because anything goes in banks, apparently.
[15:12.520 --> 15:17.440] [SPEAKER_03]: I disagree with your assertion that a sensible solution is to install cell phone blockers.
[15:17.560 --> 15:21.420] [SPEAKER_03]: I think the more sensible solution is to, like, get rid of this stupid policy.
[15:21.680 --> 15:22.240] [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, yeah.
[15:22.300 --> 15:22.860] [SPEAKER_15]: There's that, too.
[15:23.340 --> 15:25.720] [SPEAKER_15]: But then how do you stop people from robbing the bank over the phone?
[15:26.940 --> 15:30.740] [SPEAKER_17]: I would say it's more of a concern that they have the gun than the cell phone, so...
[15:30.740 --> 15:31.340] [SPEAKER_15]: That's true.
[15:31.420 --> 15:34.940] [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it's funny how the gun never seems to be brought up as an issue here.
[15:35.320 --> 15:39.460] [SPEAKER_02]: Her boyfriend never had a gun, never showed a gun, just threatened the teller.
[15:39.580 --> 15:40.100] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, yeah.
[15:40.100 --> 15:41.980] [SPEAKER_15]: You can threaten somebody with a cell phone, too, I suppose.
[15:41.980 --> 15:43.300] [SPEAKER_15]: Those cell phone guns, that's the newest thing.
[15:43.320 --> 15:45.720] [SPEAKER_02]: You've seen the commercial where the cell phone is a crime deterrent.
[15:45.900 --> 15:46.280] [SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead, try to steal my wallet.
[15:46.280 --> 15:46.820] [SPEAKER_02]: Related story.
[15:47.080 --> 15:54.140] [SPEAKER_15]: West Suburban Bank, based in Lombard, Illinois, barred customers wearing hats in January, but has not moved to silence cell phones as of yet.
[15:55.260 --> 15:55.660] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[15:56.940 --> 15:57.740] [SPEAKER_15]: We have...
[15:57.740 --> 15:58.740] [SPEAKER_15]: Is that really in the article?
[15:58.880 --> 15:59.540] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it is, actually.
[15:59.720 --> 16:00.340] [SPEAKER_15]: It really is.
[16:00.880 --> 16:05.800] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, if you're talking into your hat, are you asking for advice on robbing a bank?
[16:06.320 --> 16:09.260] [SPEAKER_15]: There's just so many ways to communicate with people.
[16:09.340 --> 16:10.360] [SPEAKER_15]: You can't control all of them.
[16:11.200 --> 16:13.280] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, scary news of the day.
[16:13.440 --> 16:18.920] [SPEAKER_15]: Actually, I originally thought this was worse than it is, but Google has reached a deal with News Corporation, owner of My...
[16:18.920 --> 16:20.740] [SPEAKER_15]: I didn't know News Corporation owned MySpace.
[16:21.060 --> 16:21.340] [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, yeah.
[16:21.460 --> 16:22.000] [SPEAKER_15]: That's Fox.
[16:23.240 --> 16:23.980] [SPEAKER_15]: Rupert Murdoch.
[16:23.980 --> 16:25.020] [SPEAKER_15]: Fox owns MySpace?
[16:25.260 --> 16:25.480] [SPEAKER_15]: No, no, no.
[16:25.520 --> 16:25.740] [SPEAKER_15]: Rupert Murdoch.
[16:25.740 --> 16:26.900] [SPEAKER_15]: No, it's Fox News Channel.
[16:26.920 --> 16:27.640] [SPEAKER_15]: It's what it is.
[16:28.080 --> 16:28.480] [SPEAKER_02]: No.
[16:28.680 --> 16:30.620] [SPEAKER_15]: It's Sky News, Fox News Channel.
[16:30.760 --> 16:31.600] [SPEAKER_15]: They're all the same.
[16:31.820 --> 16:32.780] [SPEAKER_02]: No, they're not all the same.
[16:32.840 --> 16:34.420] [SPEAKER_02]: They're subsidiaries of News Corporation.
[16:34.540 --> 16:36.380] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but they're all basically the same brain.
[16:36.660 --> 16:39.580] [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's sort of like Disney doesn't really own ABC News.
[16:39.700 --> 16:42.600] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, but Karl Rove is behind MySpace, is the point I'm trying to make.
[16:43.400 --> 16:43.680] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[16:43.840 --> 16:46.940] [SPEAKER_02]: It's tentacles of an octopus as opposed to the brains of an octopus, okay?
[16:47.080 --> 16:48.860] [SPEAKER_15]: But it's still the same damn octopus.
[16:49.380 --> 16:49.780] [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[16:50.320 --> 17:01.440] [SPEAKER_15]: Anyway, Google has reached a deal with News Corporation, owner of MySpace to pay at least $900 million in shared advertising revenue and become the exclusive search provider for the popular online hangout.
[17:01.480 --> 17:12.220] [SPEAKER_15]: I originally thought that they were buying them, but I guess being the exclusive search provider is a pretty powerful thing to have.
[17:12.320 --> 17:21.620] [SPEAKER_15]: Considering everyone is putting their entire lives on display on MySpace and Google is basically getting information on everybody's lives in other ways, it's a marriage made in heaven, right?
[17:21.620 --> 17:23.560] [SPEAKER_08]: The thing is, it's not even just people anymore.
[17:23.560 --> 17:26.060] [SPEAKER_08]: There's all sorts of things ending up on MySpace.
[17:26.220 --> 17:27.700] [SPEAKER_08]: There's movies ending up on MySpace.
[17:27.780 --> 17:34.760] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, if you look at commercials now, you'll see URLs at the bottom are MySpace links instead of, you know, just standard web pages.
[17:34.880 --> 17:35.760] [SPEAKER_08]: It's really kind of bizarre.
[17:36.020 --> 17:36.500] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it is.
[17:36.580 --> 17:37.060] [SPEAKER_15]: It really is.
[17:37.400 --> 17:39.040] [SPEAKER_15]: It's driven largely by word of mouth.
[17:39.160 --> 17:42.920] [SPEAKER_15]: MySpace has rapidly risen to become the second busiest site in the United States.
[17:43.100 --> 17:44.820] [SPEAKER_15]: Behind, who knows what the first one is?
[17:45.280 --> 17:45.680] [SPEAKER_03]: Microsoft.
[17:46.160 --> 17:46.520] [SPEAKER_15]: Google.
[17:46.680 --> 17:46.880] [SPEAKER_15]: Google.
[17:46.880 --> 17:46.920] [SPEAKER_15]: Google.
[17:47.280 --> 17:47.720] [SPEAKER_15]: Jim?
[17:47.920 --> 17:49.000] [SPEAKER_15]: I was going to say Google.
[17:49.560 --> 17:49.980] [SPEAKER_15]: Walter?
[17:50.200 --> 17:50.640] [SPEAKER_15]: Google.
[17:50.960 --> 17:51.900] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, and Bernie?
[17:52.540 --> 17:54.700] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought MySpace was the most popular.
[17:54.960 --> 17:57.080] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, obviously it's not, so you have to guess another one.
[17:57.400 --> 18:01.200] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, a couple of weeks ago, I read that Google was number two behind MySpace.
[18:01.600 --> 18:04.460] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, but does that mean you're guessing Google is number one?
[18:06.360 --> 18:08.500] [SPEAKER_07]: I have no idea what's more popular than MySpace.
[18:08.940 --> 18:09.340] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[18:10.480 --> 18:20.320] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I'm going to guess that it's Yahoo, and I find that I'm right, that it is, in fact, Yahoo that is in front of MySpace as the most popular.
[18:20.360 --> 18:20.820] [SPEAKER_15]: I didn't know that.
[18:20.820 --> 18:21.500] [SPEAKER_15]: I never go to Yahoo.
[18:22.020 --> 18:22.780] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's weird.
[18:22.800 --> 18:24.740] [SPEAKER_08]: I think Yahoo still has maybe more content than Google.
[18:24.880 --> 18:29.300] [SPEAKER_15]: I think a lot of computers have just been forgotten about and use that as the default page.
[18:29.400 --> 18:32.440] [SPEAKER_02]: Yahoo has a lot of other things, like mail and groups.
[18:33.220 --> 18:33.520] [SPEAKER_02]: Finance.
[18:33.920 --> 18:34.700] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, services.
[18:34.700 --> 18:36.680] [SPEAKER_17]: Well, all things that Google has now anyway, but...
[18:36.680 --> 18:36.900] [SPEAKER_17]: Right.
[18:36.900 --> 18:39.940] [SPEAKER_17]: Right, but Yahoo got there first, so people use them already.
[18:40.080 --> 18:40.580] [SPEAKER_17]: It's more popular.
[18:41.560 --> 18:42.520] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, what else?
[18:42.720 --> 18:47.600] [SPEAKER_15]: Do you know Hezbollah, a name in the news lately, has hijacked the Internet?
[18:48.160 --> 18:48.260] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[18:48.560 --> 18:49.120] [SPEAKER_15]: The whole Internet?
[18:49.420 --> 18:49.600] [SPEAKER_15]: The whole?
[18:49.900 --> 18:50.260] [SPEAKER_15]: Apparently.
[18:50.620 --> 18:52.080] [SPEAKER_15]: No, no, it's one of the Internets, right?
[18:52.080 --> 18:54.620] [SPEAKER_15]: It's one of the Internets, one of the tubes that they got access to, apparently.
[18:55.340 --> 18:57.820] [SPEAKER_15]: And it's funny, there's an article in Time about this.
[18:57.900 --> 19:00.720] [SPEAKER_15]: They spell Hezbollah differently than the rest of the media spells Hezbollah.
[19:00.900 --> 19:03.460] [SPEAKER_15]: They spell Hezbollah, unless it's a different group, but I don't think so.
[19:04.660 --> 19:06.120] [SPEAKER_15]: And basically, it starts off like this.
[19:06.120 --> 19:14.780] [SPEAKER_15]: What do a small South Texas cable company, a suburban Virginia cable provider, and web hosting servers in Delhi, Montreal, Brooklyn, and New Jersey have in common?
[19:15.160 --> 19:20.500] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, since fighting broke out in Lebanon, they all have had their communications portals hijacked by Hezbollah.
[19:20.780 --> 19:33.220] [SPEAKER_15]: Hackers from the militant Lebanese group, that's right, they have a hacker division, are trolling the Internet for vulnerable sites to communicate with one another and to broadcast messages from Al Menard television, which is banned in the U.S.
[19:33.340 --> 19:33.780] [SPEAKER_15]: Did you know that?
[19:33.880 --> 19:35.280] [SPEAKER_15]: Did you know that was banned in the U.S.?
[19:35.280 --> 19:35.580] [SPEAKER_15]: No.
[19:35.820 --> 19:36.900] [SPEAKER_15]: I believe it, yeah.
[19:37.040 --> 19:38.100] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, now I want to get it.
[19:38.220 --> 19:39.340] [SPEAKER_15]: I want my Al Menard.
[19:39.540 --> 19:43.240] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, well, you know, if you're going to ban something, that's a sure way to get people to want to have it.
[19:43.540 --> 19:47.260] [SPEAKER_15]: So, Al Menard, Time Warner cable, carry Al Menard now, please.
[19:47.740 --> 19:49.520] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, we're off the BBC WorldKick.
[19:49.620 --> 19:51.560] [SPEAKER_15]: We want to see this Al Menard thing that the U.S.
[19:51.640 --> 19:52.540] [SPEAKER_15]: authorities are so afraid of.
[19:53.180 --> 19:56.140] [SPEAKER_15]: In the cyberterrorism trade, it is...
[19:56.940 --> 19:57.840] [SPEAKER_15]: It's a trade?
[19:58.020 --> 19:58.820] [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, there's a trade.
[19:59.060 --> 20:02.680] [SPEAKER_15]: It is known as whack-a-mole, just like the old carnival game.
[20:03.680 --> 20:09.340] [SPEAKER_15]: Hezbollah sites pop up, get whacked down, and then pop up again somewhere else on the World Wide Web.
[20:09.940 --> 20:16.620] [SPEAKER_15]: As the Israelis tighten the noose on Hezbollah in Lebanon, these communication nodes become critical, said Fred Barton, a former U.S.
[20:17.460 --> 20:24.300] [SPEAKER_15]: counterterrorism official and now president of Stratfor, which is a security consulting and forecasting company in Austin.
[20:25.080 --> 20:35.540] [SPEAKER_15]: In today's asymmetrical warfare, the Internet is vital to groups like Hezbollah who use it to recruit, raise money, communicate, and propagandize, including sending transmissions from their leader.
[20:35.880 --> 20:41.120] [SPEAKER_15]: The recent hijacking of a South Texas cable operator is a case study in how Hezbollah moves in.
[20:41.120 --> 20:49.500] [SPEAKER_15]: The Texas cable company has an agreement with a New York-based satellite communications aggregator, which moves feeds to a variety of customers from throughout the world, including Lebanon.
[20:49.800 --> 20:59.600] [SPEAKER_15]: A technician in New York made an improper connection, according to an official with the cable company's communications provider, and that opening was detected by Hezbollah.
[20:59.960 --> 21:03.680] [SPEAKER_15]: And they jumped in, apparently.
[21:04.220 --> 21:05.040] [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know.
[21:05.180 --> 21:07.700] [SPEAKER_15]: Has anybody ever come across this kind of thing by Hezbollah?
[21:07.700 --> 21:15.300] [SPEAKER_15]: I get, what do you call it, phone calls late at night, telemarketing calls from Hezbollah asking if I'd like to contribute.
[21:15.560 --> 21:18.400] [SPEAKER_08]: But other than that, I haven't seen anything on the net.
[21:18.580 --> 21:26.240] [SPEAKER_08]: I think the whole thing's kind of stupid, or at least the claims are stupid, because there are so many other ways of communicating that don't rely on web pages.
[21:26.240 --> 21:34.960] [SPEAKER_08]: So it's either, you know, a very good deterrent that seems to be working for some strange reason, or it's just a way of getting public attention.
[21:35.240 --> 21:40.660] [SPEAKER_08]: And like I said, there are so many other ways of communicating much more securely than putting up web pages.
[21:41.000 --> 21:42.800] [SPEAKER_08]: Right, but you're trying to broadcast to...
[21:42.800 --> 21:45.340] [SPEAKER_08]: If you're trying to broadcast, yeah, well, that's, you know...
[21:45.340 --> 21:56.440] [SPEAKER_03]: It's unclear to me who they're trying to broadcast to, because Southern Lebanon at the moment does not have things like food and water and electricity and living people.
[21:57.060 --> 22:01.420] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm not sure exactly who's surfing the web to find out about...
[22:01.420 --> 22:11.820] [SPEAKER_15]: What I really don't get is, isn't there anybody anywhere in the world with a completely valid Internet connection who is willing to host this almanar or anything else that they happen to be putting out?
[22:11.820 --> 22:12.600] [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sure there is.
[22:12.680 --> 22:15.840] [SPEAKER_15]: Seeing some of the web pages that are out there now, I don't think there would be any problems.
[22:16.000 --> 22:18.080] [SPEAKER_15]: So there's something we're not being told in this story.
[22:18.240 --> 22:18.480] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[22:19.420 --> 22:20.000] [SPEAKER_15]: Pretty obviously.
[22:20.900 --> 22:24.740] [SPEAKER_15]: In March, the whack-a-mole players gained a new weapon in their fight when the U.S.
[22:24.860 --> 22:26.620] [SPEAKER_15]: Treasury announced that any U.S.
[22:26.780 --> 22:31.220] [SPEAKER_15]: company found to be doing business with almanar will be subject to sanctions and possible prosecution.
[22:31.900 --> 22:44.420] [SPEAKER_15]: The new rules mean that freelance counter-terrorists can remind slow-moving, reluctant, or even compliant web posters that they face financial sanctions if they do not act to shut down almanar.
[22:44.500 --> 22:47.720] [SPEAKER_15]: Now, isn't that very different than doing business with them if you're simply carrying a message?
[22:48.040 --> 22:51.280] [SPEAKER_03]: Who is this freelance counter-terrorist?
[22:51.500 --> 22:52.060] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to...
[22:52.060 --> 22:53.000] [SPEAKER_03]: They sound like...
[22:53.000 --> 22:55.300] [SPEAKER_03]: They sound much more...
[22:55.300 --> 22:57.980] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I don't want to say more disturbing, but quite disturbing.
[22:58.260 --> 23:04.860] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, they're as nicely defined as the hacker division of Hezbollah.
[23:05.400 --> 23:14.340] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe we can set up a meeting between the freelance counter-terrorists and the Hezbollah hacker division, and they can, like, have a polite conversation about their differences.
[23:14.640 --> 23:17.880] [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, we'll just simply send a bunch of denial-service things to each other.
[23:18.020 --> 23:26.780] [SPEAKER_17]: So, if there were a web stream, a video stream of this almanar television station, does that mean that ISPs wouldn't be able to connect to that?
[23:27.020 --> 23:28.000] [SPEAKER_17]: I thought the U.S.
[23:28.120 --> 23:30.040] [SPEAKER_17]: wasn't into the whole web censorship thing.
[23:30.080 --> 23:31.620] [SPEAKER_17]: That's why we criticize China all the time.
[23:31.620 --> 23:32.200] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[23:32.200 --> 23:32.760] [SPEAKER_15]: I know.
[23:32.760 --> 23:40.820] [SPEAKER_15]: I know that there are people out there with dishes, big dishes, or medium-sized dishes, that are able to see all the Arab TV channels as they're broadcast.
[23:41.080 --> 23:45.620] [SPEAKER_15]: And some of them are really rather interesting as far as the propaganda that's being thrown around.
[23:45.740 --> 23:50.200] [SPEAKER_15]: So, it's not a far reach to simply take one of the signals and stream it on the Internet.
[23:50.380 --> 23:51.280] [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sure it's being done.
[23:51.680 --> 23:51.860] [SPEAKER_17]: Okay.
[23:52.460 --> 23:57.800] [SPEAKER_17]: Say the stream were originating from outside the U.S., somewhere in the world, not here.
[23:57.920 --> 23:58.040] [SPEAKER_17]: Right.
[23:58.040 --> 24:01.080] [SPEAKER_17]: And you were getting it through, you know, AT&T's underground lines.
[24:01.180 --> 24:04.720] [SPEAKER_17]: Would they be responsible for doing business because they're connecting you to the stream?
[24:04.900 --> 24:05.700] [SPEAKER_17]: That's what I'd like to know.
[24:05.800 --> 24:06.260] [SPEAKER_17]: That's a good question.
[24:06.380 --> 24:07.500] [SPEAKER_17]: And would they have to shut it off?
[24:07.900 --> 24:08.180] [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah.
[24:08.280 --> 24:11.040] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you know, I think the only way to find out is to turn it on and see what happens.
[24:11.160 --> 24:12.080] [SPEAKER_15]: I've got to find a web stream.
[24:12.220 --> 24:12.920] [SPEAKER_15]: I don't even know where to start.
[24:12.960 --> 24:16.620] [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sure we'll be getting all kinds of mail from our listeners telling us how we can watch Almanar.
[24:17.480 --> 24:21.220] [SPEAKER_15]: Again, our email address is oth@2600.com.
[24:21.320 --> 24:22.060] [SPEAKER_15]: We'd love to hear from you.
[24:22.200 --> 24:25.340] [SPEAKER_15]: We always read the mail that comes in, and boy, do we get a lot of it.
[24:25.340 --> 24:26.380] [SPEAKER_15]: You know what would be really good?
[24:26.520 --> 24:31.180] [SPEAKER_17]: A counterterrorism firewall to keep all that stuff on the Internet away from American eyes.
[24:31.500 --> 24:32.180] [SPEAKER_17]: There you go.
[24:32.500 --> 24:33.020] [SPEAKER_17]: Don't laugh.
[24:33.120 --> 24:33.480] [SPEAKER_15]: It's coming.
[24:33.600 --> 24:33.940] [SPEAKER_15]: It's coming.
[24:34.000 --> 24:35.320] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, you might not want to suggest that.
[24:35.760 --> 24:37.100] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, people listen and they take notes.
[24:38.000 --> 24:40.740] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, here's the cheering news of the week.
[24:41.400 --> 24:47.120] [SPEAKER_15]: The AOL privacy breach, that massive privacy breach that everybody knows about, apparently it was a mistake.
[24:48.320 --> 24:49.140] [SPEAKER_15]: Isn't that nice?
[24:49.140 --> 24:51.240] [SPEAKER_15]: AOL says privacy breach was a mistake.
[24:51.240 --> 24:52.740] [SPEAKER_15]: It wasn't one of the privacy breaches.
[24:52.860 --> 24:53.520] [SPEAKER_15]: That was intentional.
[24:53.520 --> 24:55.660] [SPEAKER_15]: Oh boy, I feel so much better now.
[24:56.220 --> 25:11.000] [SPEAKER_15]: They released the Internet search terms that more than 650,000 of its subscribers entered over a three-month period and admitted on Monday that what it originally intended as a gesture to researchers amounted to a privacy breach and a mistake.
[25:11.620 --> 25:16.480] [SPEAKER_15]: Basically, what AOL did was they substituted numeric IDs for the subscribers' real usernames.
[25:16.480 --> 25:24.120] [SPEAKER_15]: Apparently, on the mistaken belief that that would not make its way back to let people figure out who the subscribers are.
[25:24.800 --> 25:28.360] [SPEAKER_15]: For example, many users type their names to find out where their sites have dirt on them.
[25:28.480 --> 25:33.240] [SPEAKER_15]: And then they separately search for online mentions of their phone, credit card, or social security numbers.
[25:33.320 --> 25:34.320] [SPEAKER_15]: That's pretty dumb, I think.
[25:34.920 --> 25:43.640] [SPEAKER_15]: A few days later, they may search for pizzerias in their neighborhoods, revealing their locations or prescription drug prices, revealing their medical conditions.
[25:44.100 --> 25:47.300] [SPEAKER_15]: All those separate searches would be linked to the same numeric IDs.
[25:47.460 --> 25:50.160] [SPEAKER_15]: So you can see it's not hard to link this to a person.
[25:50.320 --> 26:00.180] [SPEAKER_08]: And the really funny part is that you get a lot more information not knowing who the person is and using these random IDs, or not random IDs, but encoded IDs, than you do if you just knew the screen name, for instance.
[26:00.260 --> 26:01.220] [SPEAKER_08]: But you have a computer on.
[26:01.280 --> 26:02.680] [SPEAKER_08]: Are you actually looking at these things now?
[26:02.700 --> 26:03.640] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm looking at them right now.
[26:03.640 --> 26:04.060] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh my God.
[26:04.220 --> 26:11.120] [SPEAKER_08]: It's pretty... Oh, so let me read the statement that AOL made under their brief description portion of the collection that they made available.
[26:11.480 --> 26:15.680] [SPEAKER_08]: The goal of this collection is to provide real query log data that is based on real users.
[26:15.860 --> 26:20.320] [SPEAKER_08]: It could be used for personalization, query reformulation, or other types of search research.
[26:20.880 --> 26:22.600] [SPEAKER_08]: So they have all this information.
[26:22.800 --> 26:27.200] [SPEAKER_08]: And what you actually see when you look at the file are a couple of fields there.
[26:27.340 --> 26:29.020] [SPEAKER_08]: There are five fields here, and one of them...
[26:29.020 --> 26:30.380] [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, you skipped the important caveat.
[26:30.880 --> 26:31.680] [SPEAKER_03]: Caveat emptor.
[26:31.900 --> 26:33.080] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, well, do you want me to read that?
[26:33.200 --> 26:33.440] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's see.
[26:33.480 --> 26:34.180] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you're closer.
[26:34.340 --> 26:35.340] [SPEAKER_03]: No, go back down.
[26:35.460 --> 26:35.720] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[26:35.720 --> 26:38.200] [SPEAKER_03]: And right there it says, there's a warning.
[26:38.380 --> 26:39.200] [SPEAKER_08]: Sexually explicit data.
[26:39.360 --> 26:43.600] [SPEAKER_08]: Please be aware that these queries are not filtered to remove any content, pornography, and yada, yada, yada.
[26:43.900 --> 26:44.820] [SPEAKER_08]: Basically nothing's filtered.
[26:44.860 --> 26:46.600] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, hopefully you have a filter that will do that.
[26:46.740 --> 26:50.480] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not going to read the... Well, I mean, there's not such horrible things here that I mean...
[26:50.480 --> 26:51.160] [SPEAKER_08]: These are AOL users.
[26:51.220 --> 26:51.840] [SPEAKER_08]: What are you talking about?
[26:51.840 --> 26:53.340] [SPEAKER_08]: Every single search has to do with sex.
[26:53.420 --> 26:54.480] [SPEAKER_08]: So they're really funny, anyway.
[26:54.740 --> 26:56.820] [SPEAKER_08]: So you basically get five fields of data.
[26:56.960 --> 27:04.500] [SPEAKER_08]: One of them is anonymous ID, which is an anonymous user ID number, which obviously isn't really so anonymous because... Well, there's a number there, right?
[27:04.660 --> 27:08.420] [SPEAKER_08]: It's basically an encoded form of the user ID.
[27:09.300 --> 27:12.160] [SPEAKER_08]: The query string, which is the query issued by the user.
[27:12.380 --> 27:17.680] [SPEAKER_08]: Case shifted with most punctuation removed, which isn't true at all because there's actually a lot of punctuation in these.
[27:18.240 --> 27:20.980] [SPEAKER_08]: Query time, the time at which the query was submitted for search.
[27:21.280 --> 27:26.180] [SPEAKER_08]: Item rank, if the user clicked on a search result, the rank of the item on which they clicked is listed.
[27:26.420 --> 27:32.280] [SPEAKER_08]: And click URL, which if the user clicked on a search result, the domain portion of the URL in the clicked result is listed.
[27:32.440 --> 27:41.880] [SPEAKER_08]: So you can basically see what they searched for, when they searched for it, if they liked any of the results, which ones they clicked on, and how that result was ranked.
[27:41.920 --> 27:43.220] [SPEAKER_08]: Can we hear some examples?
[27:43.400 --> 27:44.420] [SPEAKER_08]: I can give you some examples.
[27:44.680 --> 27:47.840] [SPEAKER_08]: So user 217, which is right at the top of the list here.
[27:48.220 --> 27:49.100] [SPEAKER_08]: Three-digit numbers?
[27:49.380 --> 27:50.960] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, they get higher, trust me.
[27:51.280 --> 27:53.180] [SPEAKER_15]: You mean they start with very low numbers?
[27:53.180 --> 27:54.900] [SPEAKER_15]: The first one is 142.
[27:55.680 --> 28:01.360] [SPEAKER_15]: Is there a way to somehow make these translate to real usernames by the numbering scheme?
[28:01.640 --> 28:03.020] [SPEAKER_15]: It wouldn't be like that, would it?
[28:03.120 --> 28:06.100] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sure that AOL can do it very, very easily.
[28:06.160 --> 28:09.440] [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm sure that maybe eventually somebody will discover this.
[28:09.620 --> 28:13.120] [SPEAKER_15]: All better authorities are contacting AOL right now saying we want to know more about number 217.
[28:13.220 --> 28:16.720] [SPEAKER_08]: I guarantee you there are many people who have the ability to translate these.
[28:16.880 --> 28:17.760] [SPEAKER_08]: So let's hear some examples.
[28:17.760 --> 28:25.320] [SPEAKER_08]: So, for example, some of the searches were lottery, ameriprise.com, sushim.
[28:25.500 --> 28:26.740] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know what some of these things mean.
[28:26.840 --> 28:35.480] [SPEAKER_08]: United.com, mizunu.com, and then some searches for weird punctuation, Asian sexy goddess, buddy list.
[28:35.580 --> 28:35.800] [SPEAKER_08]: See?
[28:35.920 --> 28:37.080] [SPEAKER_08]: This is what I was talking about.
[28:37.460 --> 28:39.800] [SPEAKER_08]: Ask.com, weather.com, Wells Fargo.
[28:40.560 --> 28:44.660] [SPEAKER_08]: Why are people searching for websites when they just have to type in the websites?
[28:44.660 --> 28:48.320] [SPEAKER_03]: There are people who don't understand the difference between search and go to URL.
[28:48.580 --> 28:49.400] [SPEAKER_03]: Also with AOL.
[28:49.400 --> 28:53.160] [SPEAKER_08]: And also with AOL, the toolbar is the URL bar, and you can use that for searching.
[28:53.280 --> 28:54.640] [SPEAKER_15]: Never used AOL in my life.
[28:55.120 --> 28:55.560] [SPEAKER_15]: Never.
[28:55.840 --> 28:56.340] [SPEAKER_15]: That's a shame.
[28:56.860 --> 28:59.320] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it's a real loss in my life, I can tell.
[28:59.320 --> 29:03.000] [SPEAKER_17]: So basically we have a gambling addict who's looking for airplane tickets?
[29:03.160 --> 29:05.140] [SPEAKER_17]: Is that what I Wait, how did you reach that conclusion?
[29:05.140 --> 29:06.400] [SPEAKER_17]: Well, lottery and United.
[29:06.960 --> 29:08.920] [SPEAKER_17]: And also Asian sexy goddess.
[29:09.040 --> 29:11.080] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, and who's in need of a woman.
[29:12.460 --> 29:14.740] [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, well, that's revealing, I guess.
[29:14.980 --> 29:21.540] [SPEAKER_08]: So there's all sorts of really interesting stuff here, and there are people online already who have put together, you know, some...
[29:21.540 --> 29:22.020] [SPEAKER_08]: Profiles?
[29:22.220 --> 29:25.380] [SPEAKER_08]: Some basic, yeah, some basic profiles of people based on their IDs.
[29:25.660 --> 29:27.460] [SPEAKER_08]: And how many queries are there?
[29:27.620 --> 29:30.060] [SPEAKER_08]: There's over 20 million, something like that.
[29:30.180 --> 29:31.000] [SPEAKER_08]: That were released?
[29:31.140 --> 29:31.980] [SPEAKER_08]: That were released, yeah.
[29:32.200 --> 29:33.280] [SPEAKER_08]: And they're all right here.
[29:33.280 --> 29:38.780] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, 19 million queries from 658,086 subscribers from March 1st to May 31st.
[29:38.820 --> 29:40.100] [SPEAKER_15]: That's pretty precise information there.
[29:40.100 --> 29:57.600] [SPEAKER_15]: But one user, for instance, was repeatedly searching for information about divorcing someone whose husband is in the army and about dating services in Oakbrook, Illinois, while another kept searching for members of one family by name, along with the Chicago auto dealer and naked Russian women.
[29:58.320 --> 30:03.500] [SPEAKER_15]: So, as you can see, it's not the kind of thing you'd really want to have displayed for the whole world to see.
[30:03.740 --> 30:09.400] [SPEAKER_08]: And unfortunately, it's really invasive because you can really narrow down a lot of these searches as to who the actual person is.
[30:09.820 --> 30:10.520] [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, I will.
[30:10.960 --> 30:11.400] [SPEAKER_08]: Go ahead.
[30:12.300 --> 30:12.580] [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, Brian.
[30:12.980 --> 30:13.760] [SPEAKER_07]: There's a...
[30:13.760 --> 30:21.660] [SPEAKER_07]: I've got a brief list of search terms that AOL user 2708, which AOL anonymously define them as.
[30:22.140 --> 30:24.560] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to read this short list, but it's pretty amusing.
[30:25.900 --> 30:28.940] [SPEAKER_07]: This is apparently a woman, because the first one starts out to...
[30:28.940 --> 30:52.600] [SPEAKER_07]: Revenge Tactics, the women's book of revenge, Dirty Tricks for Chicks, Voice Changer, How to Humiliate Someone, Bill Me Later, Bill Me Pay Later for CDs, Scams to Play on People, How to Get Revenge on an Old Lover, I Hate My Ex-Boyfriend, How to Really Make Someone Hurt for the Pain They Caused to Someone...
[30:52.600 --> 30:55.420] [SPEAKER_15]: Why don't they just paint the portrait already?
[30:55.720 --> 30:56.280] [SPEAKER_15]: Good Lord.
[30:56.620 --> 30:57.220] [SPEAKER_07]: It goes on.
[30:57.220 --> 30:57.800] [SPEAKER_07]: It gets better.
[30:58.060 --> 30:58.840] [SPEAKER_07]: Columbia House.
[30:59.580 --> 31:03.220] [SPEAKER_07]: Advice from women who have seeked revenge on old lovers.
[31:03.680 --> 31:04.560] [SPEAKER_15]: Seek the word?
[31:04.740 --> 31:05.260] [SPEAKER_15]: We're going to be sought?
[31:05.820 --> 31:07.820] [SPEAKER_07]: That's what she typed in.
[31:07.900 --> 31:08.620] [SPEAKER_15]: All right, well...
[31:09.260 --> 31:10.300] [SPEAKER_07]: MakeHimSuffer.com.
[31:10.420 --> 31:12.320] [SPEAKER_07]: How to Say Goodbye Hurtfully.
[31:13.120 --> 31:15.740] [SPEAKER_07]: How to Report Child Neglect in the State of New Hampshire.
[31:16.400 --> 31:19.160] [SPEAKER_07]: Free articles on gay life that can be mailed to me.
[31:20.500 --> 31:21.940] [SPEAKER_07]: Free Christian things.
[31:22.240 --> 31:25.980] [SPEAKER_15]: Who has ever typed in a search command like that, how to mail it to me?
[31:25.980 --> 31:28.160] [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, it's just so verbose.
[31:28.460 --> 31:29.560] [SPEAKER_07]: These are AOL users.
[31:29.880 --> 31:30.840] [SPEAKER_07]: Free Christian things.
[31:31.140 --> 31:32.320] [SPEAKER_07]: Free gay magazines.
[31:32.780 --> 31:35.200] [SPEAKER_07]: Free angry stuff to send to an ex-lover.
[31:35.560 --> 31:38.800] [SPEAKER_07]: How to permanently delete information from your hard drive.
[31:39.380 --> 31:40.620] [SPEAKER_07]: MakeHimPay.net.
[31:40.620 --> 31:42.960] [SPEAKER_07]: Women's Harley-Davidson boots.
[31:43.500 --> 31:45.720] [SPEAKER_07]: www.match.com.
[31:46.820 --> 31:49.640] [SPEAKER_07]: The worst thing to send someone via email.
[31:50.320 --> 31:51.580] [SPEAKER_07]: Thong Dancewear.
[31:53.400 --> 31:54.720] [SPEAKER_07]: LocateAcell.com.
[31:55.040 --> 31:57.580] [SPEAKER_07]: What can I do to an old lover for revenge?
[31:58.120 --> 31:59.840] [SPEAKER_07]: Mean Revenge Tactics.
[32:00.340 --> 32:02.960] [SPEAKER_07]: And death records in Hampstead, New Hampshire.
[32:03.220 --> 32:05.420] [SPEAKER_15]: And that's from number 2701, correct?
[32:05.860 --> 32:06.520] [SPEAKER_15]: 2708.
[32:06.520 --> 32:07.760] [SPEAKER_15]: I'm looking at it while he's reading.
[32:07.860 --> 32:08.520] [SPEAKER_15]: This is really funny.
[32:09.040 --> 32:10.200] [SPEAKER_08]: Everything he's saying is right there.
[32:10.260 --> 32:10.780] [SPEAKER_08]: It's really funny.
[32:10.820 --> 32:12.220] [SPEAKER_15]: Can we find user 2600?
[32:12.320 --> 32:12.740] [SPEAKER_15]: Is there one?
[32:12.980 --> 32:13.980] [SPEAKER_15]: I can check.
[32:14.100 --> 32:18.400] [SPEAKER_15]: If we can, I think we should make it our mission to find out who that is and track them down somehow.
[32:18.960 --> 32:19.980] [SPEAKER_15]: See if we can do that.
[32:20.780 --> 32:23.420] [SPEAKER_15]: What if it's somebody we really don't want to be associated with?
[32:23.740 --> 32:24.960] [SPEAKER_15]: It's the luck of the draw.
[32:25.220 --> 32:25.700] [SPEAKER_15]: It really is.
[32:26.760 --> 32:27.080] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[32:27.080 --> 32:27.880] [SPEAKER_15]: You keep looking for that.
[32:27.940 --> 32:28.960] [SPEAKER_15]: I'm going to move on to another story.
[32:30.020 --> 32:31.040] [SPEAKER_15]: This is kind of interesting, too.
[32:31.100 --> 32:32.400] [SPEAKER_15]: This just came in yesterday.
[32:32.400 --> 32:41.740] [SPEAKER_15]: Yesterday, fantasy baseball leagues are allowed to use player names and statistics without licensing agreements because they are not the intellectual property of Major League Baseball.
[32:41.960 --> 32:43.820] [SPEAKER_15]: A federal judge ruled this yesterday.
[32:44.240 --> 32:49.060] [SPEAKER_15]: Baseball and its players have no right to prevent the use of names and playing records, according to U.S.
[32:49.380 --> 32:51.100] [SPEAKER_15]: District Court Judge Mary Ann Medler.
[32:51.960 --> 32:52.400] [SPEAKER_15]: Medler?
[32:52.440 --> 32:53.800] [SPEAKER_15]: That's a weird name for a judge, isn't it?
[32:54.360 --> 32:55.920] [SPEAKER_15]: I want to meddle in some things.
[32:56.000 --> 32:56.800] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, let's be a judge.
[32:56.800 --> 33:01.200] [SPEAKER_15]: In St. Louis, she ruled in a 49-page summary judgment.
[33:02.160 --> 33:18.760] [SPEAKER_15]: St. Louis-based CBC Distribution and Marketing filed a lawsuit against Major League Baseball Advanced Media, which is Major League Baseball's Internet wing, after CBC was denied a new licensing agreement with the Baseball Players Association, giving it the rights to player profiles and statistics.
[33:19.180 --> 33:28.420] [SPEAKER_15]: Major League Baseball claimed that intellectual property laws and so-called right of publicity made it illegal for fantasy leagues to make money off the identities and stats of professional players.
[33:29.040 --> 33:44.820] [SPEAKER_15]: But even if the players could claim the right of publicity against commercial ventures by others, Medler wrote, the First Amendment takes precedent because CBC, which runs CDM Fantasy Sports, is disseminating the same statistical information found in newspapers every day.
[33:45.440 --> 33:50.100] [SPEAKER_15]: And in a side note, the Canadian Broadcasting Company has filed suit against CBC for using their name.
[33:51.400 --> 33:53.040] [SPEAKER_15]: I'm joking, I think.
[33:53.460 --> 33:55.160] [SPEAKER_15]: But yeah, that's interesting, isn't it?
[33:56.220 --> 33:56.700] [SPEAKER_15]: I...
[33:56.700 --> 34:00.040] [SPEAKER_15]: It boggles the imagination that they actually would think that that...
[34:00.040 --> 34:03.060] [SPEAKER_15]: Those statistics are somehow intellectual property.
[34:03.060 --> 34:03.720] [SPEAKER_15]: They're published.
[34:03.940 --> 34:08.240] [SPEAKER_15]: It's like saying you can't tell somebody a scorer because that's our intellectual property.
[34:08.900 --> 34:10.380] [SPEAKER_15]: And how dare you?
[34:10.520 --> 34:17.100] [SPEAKER_03]: It would have been better if Judge Medler had written, this is clearly not intellectual property because there's really not a whole lot of intellect going on here.
[34:17.260 --> 34:18.640] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, well, you know, you'd be surprised.
[34:18.640 --> 34:25.560] [SPEAKER_15]: You'd be surprised how well people can interpret motions and movements and statistics and things like that.
[34:25.700 --> 34:26.180] [SPEAKER_15]: It's...
[34:26.180 --> 34:27.280] [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know.
[34:27.440 --> 34:31.940] [SPEAKER_15]: People who really get into the sports statistics sometimes scare me with their intelligence.
[34:32.200 --> 34:37.500] [SPEAKER_02]: Mike forgets what the great Yogi Berra once said, that half of baseball is 90% mental.
[34:37.880 --> 34:41.200] [SPEAKER_15]: And half of the things that he's quoted as saying, he said that he never said.
[34:41.420 --> 34:43.180] [SPEAKER_15]: And that's probably true...
[34:43.180 --> 34:43.820] [SPEAKER_02]: Add that to your quote.
[34:43.820 --> 34:44.900] [SPEAKER_02]: 90% of the time.
[34:45.160 --> 34:45.580] [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[34:45.740 --> 34:45.980] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, Emmanuel.
[34:46.120 --> 34:46.460] [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, go ahead.
[34:47.480 --> 34:53.040] [SPEAKER_07]: Back to these other crazy intellectual property claims like this.
[34:53.140 --> 35:12.680] [SPEAKER_07]: I remember about 15 years ago, there was a Supreme Court case which finally settled the matter of local exchange carriers, telephone companies, arguing that the white pages, the white page listings with names and phone numbers was copyrighted intellectual property and nobody else could use that information.
[35:13.900 --> 35:14.660] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's classic.
[35:14.920 --> 35:20.600] [SPEAKER_07]: But it was about 15 years ago, the Supreme Court ruled that, no, it's not copyrighted intellectual property.
[35:21.140 --> 35:21.540] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[35:21.800 --> 35:22.980] [SPEAKER_07]: They fought that too, they nailed it.
[35:23.320 --> 35:27.420] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, they'll try to get anything if we let them.
[35:27.640 --> 35:31.340] [SPEAKER_15]: So, good decision there, but just could have easily gone the other way too.
[35:32.220 --> 35:34.300] [SPEAKER_15]: Update to a story we reported a couple of weeks ago.
[35:34.400 --> 35:39.520] [SPEAKER_15]: Police will not prosecute a man for using his home security system to record detectives on his front porch.
[35:39.820 --> 35:41.880] [SPEAKER_15]: That's a story from Nashua, New Hampshire.
[35:42.240 --> 35:53.100] [SPEAKER_15]: Michael Gannon was arrested June 27th after he made the videotape to record conversations among detectives who were at his door looking for his 15-year-old son who was being investigated in connection with a mugging downtown.
[35:53.440 --> 36:00.340] [SPEAKER_15]: When Gannon brought the videotape to a police station to complain that a detective was rude to him, he was arrested on felony wiretapping charges.
[36:00.620 --> 36:04.520] [SPEAKER_15]: The case attracted attention around the world as news spread via the Internet.
[36:06.200 --> 36:08.140] [SPEAKER_15]: The case was dropped against him.
[36:08.220 --> 36:15.680] [SPEAKER_15]: Nashua police also have concluded that Gannon's complaint about the detective was justified, although the chief added that Gannon himself was provocative and disrespectful.
[36:15.900 --> 36:19.600] [SPEAKER_15]: The chief declined to say what discipline the detective might face.
[36:20.380 --> 36:25.160] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, it's, I guess, another piece of good news there, but it seems like something that's so obvious, right?
[36:26.420 --> 36:30.280] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that never stopped the legal system from failing to point it out before.
[36:30.420 --> 36:31.260] [SPEAKER_03]: That was a terrible sentence.
[36:31.260 --> 36:34.840] [SPEAKER_03]: The legal system, obviously, often misses obvious things.
[36:35.700 --> 36:37.580] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, that's much better, Mike, much better.
[36:37.720 --> 36:38.200] [SPEAKER_03]: It's the police.
[36:38.200 --> 36:39.200] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying here, okay?
[36:40.440 --> 36:47.200] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, so, yeah, so I guess, you know, you can try to feel free videotaping police when they drop by for a visit.
[36:47.840 --> 36:48.280] [SPEAKER_15]: Emmanuel?
[36:48.480 --> 36:48.620] [SPEAKER_15]: Yes?
[36:49.740 --> 36:52.780] [SPEAKER_07]: This video is not being released by the police.
[36:53.940 --> 36:56.600] [SPEAKER_07]: They're claiming that it could be illegal.
[36:59.060 --> 37:05.460] [SPEAKER_07]: They're claiming that, you know, part of an ongoing investigation, even though they decided not to press, the DA decided not to press charges.
[37:05.700 --> 37:07.740] [SPEAKER_07]: It's clear that they don't want to release this videotaping.
[37:07.880 --> 37:08.880] [SPEAKER_07]: It's going to be very embarrassing.
[37:08.900 --> 37:10.220] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, the guy can release it.
[37:10.260 --> 37:11.100] [SPEAKER_15]: Why doesn't he release it?
[37:11.140 --> 37:13.040] [SPEAKER_07]: No, because the police seized it from him.
[37:14.160 --> 37:20.240] [SPEAKER_07]: But I think if it ever is released, it will probably be one of the more popular videos on YouTube or Google Video.
[37:21.480 --> 37:23.640] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, he should definitely get that video back.
[37:23.920 --> 37:27.400] [SPEAKER_15]: That's something that he can sue for, for certain.
[37:27.580 --> 37:32.460] [SPEAKER_03]: The other thing, yeah, apparently he's suing for is, I guess, the police damaged his video equipment when they took it.
[37:33.700 --> 37:34.960] [SPEAKER_15]: They're so clumsy, aren't they?
[37:35.160 --> 37:36.980] [SPEAKER_08]: It doesn't look like there's a 2,600 user.
[37:37.200 --> 37:38.120] [SPEAKER_15]: There's no 2,600 user?
[37:38.200 --> 37:40.140] [SPEAKER_15]: In that whole thing, there's nobody with 2,600.
[37:40.340 --> 37:41.180] [SPEAKER_15]: I can't believe that.
[37:41.260 --> 37:41.640] [SPEAKER_15]: It doesn't look like that.
[37:41.640 --> 37:43.460] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, then we'll have to pick somebody at random and track them down.
[37:43.600 --> 37:44.720] [SPEAKER_15]: How about number one?
[37:45.480 --> 37:46.280] [SPEAKER_02]: Or 1721?
[37:46.280 --> 37:46.760] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think there's a number one.
[37:46.760 --> 37:47.780] [SPEAKER_02]: There's no number one either.
[37:47.780 --> 37:48.440] [SPEAKER_02]: 1721?
[37:48.680 --> 37:49.480] [SPEAKER_02]: Who's 1721?
[37:49.680 --> 37:50.180] [SPEAKER_02]: Number one.
[37:50.360 --> 37:51.280] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't remember?
[37:51.420 --> 37:52.020] [SPEAKER_02]: From Hope 6?
[37:52.920 --> 37:54.180] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right, 1721.
[37:55.540 --> 37:56.540] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, we'll give it a shot.
[37:56.660 --> 37:57.740] [SPEAKER_15]: Don't use those numbers lightly.
[37:57.960 --> 37:58.520] [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sorry.
[37:58.980 --> 37:59.940] [SPEAKER_15]: I didn't mean to.
[38:00.140 --> 38:01.000] [SPEAKER_15]: I didn't think I was.
[38:01.520 --> 38:01.880] [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[38:02.120 --> 38:04.080] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, anyway, cell phones have...
[38:04.080 --> 38:06.660] [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, yeah, we talked about cell phones being banned inside the banks.
[38:07.340 --> 38:07.860] [SPEAKER_15]: That's true.
[38:07.900 --> 38:11.560] [SPEAKER_15]: We had some listener mail sent to oth@2600.com.
[38:12.040 --> 38:14.540] [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, by the way, we'll be taking phone calls, 212-209-2900.
[38:14.660 --> 38:16.760] [SPEAKER_15]: So please start making those phone calls now.
[38:16.760 --> 38:27.280] [SPEAKER_15]: Now, this person writes in to ask, on the August 2nd show, you talked about the 1-800 tip lines and the 1-800 records rendering those services nowhere near anonymous.
[38:27.620 --> 38:32.200] [SPEAKER_15]: Why would 1-800 services keep caller records, and what are they supposed to use them for?
[38:32.200 --> 38:34.480] [SPEAKER_15]: Also, how would one's number be passed to this service?
[38:34.620 --> 38:36.720] [SPEAKER_15]: Calling party number or charge number, perhaps.
[38:37.660 --> 38:38.020] [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks.
[38:38.180 --> 38:39.820] [SPEAKER_15]: And by the way, help number 6 was outstanding.
[38:40.380 --> 38:41.940] [SPEAKER_15]: Signed, Ford Shrighton.
[38:42.880 --> 38:50.140] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, as far as why they do this, I suppose because they're paying for the phone call and they'd like to know who it is that's calling them to make them pay for the phone call.
[38:50.220 --> 38:55.600] [SPEAKER_15]: That's one of the reasons why every phone bill you get, if you have an 800 number, you'll see the number of the person calling you.
[38:55.600 --> 38:57.760] [SPEAKER_08]: And it doesn't even really matter.
[38:57.840 --> 38:59.080] [SPEAKER_08]: The phone company is going to log it.
[38:59.160 --> 39:01.260] [SPEAKER_08]: They're probably going to log it for statistical purposes.
[39:01.460 --> 39:04.380] [SPEAKER_08]: Whether or not they actually identify any of the people who calls them is irrelevant.
[39:04.580 --> 39:05.760] [SPEAKER_08]: The data is actually logged.
[39:05.880 --> 39:11.720] [SPEAKER_08]: And that's the important factor here is that it's logged, it's available, and if somebody needs it in the future, it's there.
[39:11.840 --> 39:17.920] [SPEAKER_15]: And this does not use caller ID technology, which can be blocked theoretically by *67.
[39:18.160 --> 39:20.760] [SPEAKER_15]: This uses ANI, and you cannot block that.
[39:20.760 --> 39:25.880] [SPEAKER_15]: Now, you can dial *67, but it's still going to send your number over to an 800 number and other numbers as well.
[39:26.080 --> 39:29.800] [SPEAKER_15]: So never think that you have total anonymity on the telephone.
[39:30.160 --> 39:34.500] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, this ANI, what kind of ANI do you get if you use these voiceover IP services?
[39:34.700 --> 39:35.380] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's a good question.
[39:35.500 --> 39:37.120] [SPEAKER_03]: We come up with all kinds of strange caller ID.
[39:37.320 --> 39:38.880] [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sure that somebody knows the answer.
[39:39.700 --> 39:42.000] [SPEAKER_03]: I hoped it would be you, but I guess not.
[39:42.080 --> 39:42.460] [SPEAKER_15]: No, I don't know.
[39:43.180 --> 39:45.200] [SPEAKER_15]: I'm well behind on the whole VoIP scene here.
[39:45.200 --> 39:50.920] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, we were playing with that a while back, and the VOIP providers certainly logged the phone calls, so...
[39:50.920 --> 39:51.040] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[39:51.340 --> 39:52.320] [SPEAKER_15]: No, they logged the phone calls.
[39:52.360 --> 39:53.520] [SPEAKER_15]: That's for sure.
[39:54.480 --> 39:55.700] [SPEAKER_15]: But can you get to them?
[39:55.760 --> 39:56.820] [SPEAKER_15]: That's the real question.
[39:58.420 --> 39:58.780] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[39:59.220 --> 40:03.800] [SPEAKER_15]: Let's take a couple more pieces of email here, and then we'll take some phone calls.
[40:03.840 --> 40:05.400] [SPEAKER_15]: Looks like we got a fair amount coming in.
[40:05.700 --> 40:09.540] [SPEAKER_15]: 212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[40:10.160 --> 40:12.560] [SPEAKER_08]: The board's almost all lit up before we even mentioned the phone number.
[40:12.640 --> 40:13.180] [SPEAKER_08]: That's pretty impressive.
[40:13.280 --> 40:14.660] [SPEAKER_15]: That's interesting, because last week it was dead.
[40:15.240 --> 40:15.900] [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know.
[40:16.020 --> 40:17.000] [SPEAKER_15]: Something weird.
[40:17.120 --> 40:18.600] [SPEAKER_15]: Maybe there was a good TV program on last week.
[40:20.100 --> 40:26.140] [SPEAKER_15]: Dear Emmanuel and Off The Hook Crew, I heard that last show and was disappointed I couldn't call in with some feedback from Hope 6.
[40:26.440 --> 40:27.300] [SPEAKER_15]: Hope number 6.
[40:27.700 --> 40:32.560] [SPEAKER_15]: My first Hope experience was H2K2, and unfortunately I wasn't able to make it to the fifth Hope.
[40:32.900 --> 40:36.660] [SPEAKER_15]: Although H2K2 was a total blast, this one blew it away.
[40:37.000 --> 40:40.800] [SPEAKER_15]: There wasn't a moment I was standing around at the conference board or looking for something to do.
[40:41.040 --> 40:45.440] [SPEAKER_15]: There wasn't a single panel or talk I attended that didn't captivate my attention the entire time.
[40:45.780 --> 40:47.560] [SPEAKER_15]: Riding on the Segways was a blast.
[40:47.560 --> 40:51.260] [SPEAKER_15]: The vendors were great, and the lockpicking village always had something challenging to try.
[40:51.480 --> 40:54.740] [SPEAKER_15]: The guys at the amateur radio station renewed my interest in their hobby.
[40:55.040 --> 40:58.280] [SPEAKER_15]: At the time, they were trying to contact the space station, which was passing overhead.
[40:58.860 --> 41:03.460] [SPEAKER_15]: Unfortunately, there wasn't enough free time for me to study for the exam, but I passed it anyways and got my license.
[41:03.620 --> 41:06.340] [SPEAKER_15]: So a big thanks goes out to the volunteers who organized that.
[41:06.720 --> 41:10.600] [SPEAKER_15]: You mentioned you may try to get Steve Rambam to give his talk at some point in August.
[41:10.600 --> 41:14.380] [SPEAKER_15]: If it's possible, you can be sure I'll make the trip down from Massachusetts to attend.
[41:14.540 --> 41:15.900] [SPEAKER_15]: 2,600 put on a great conference.
[41:16.020 --> 41:18.480] [SPEAKER_15]: I'll be sure there's no excuse to miss the next Hope.
[41:19.300 --> 41:25.160] [SPEAKER_15]: And signed PH, and PH also wants to know, who was the vendor selling the RFID blocking wallets and passport holders?
[41:25.340 --> 41:28.880] [SPEAKER_15]: I have some friends that were interested and would like to support the company from the conference.
[41:28.960 --> 41:29.620] [SPEAKER_15]: Anybody have that information?
[41:29.620 --> 41:33.940] [SPEAKER_15]: It's called Differwear, D-I-F-R-W-E-A-R.
[41:34.900 --> 41:37.660] [SPEAKER_15]: That spells almost every part of that differently than I expected.
[41:37.800 --> 41:38.460] [SPEAKER_03]: So I spell it one more time?
[41:38.720 --> 41:43.500] [SPEAKER_03]: Differ, which is D-I-F-R, and then wear, like something that you...
[41:43.500 --> 41:43.920] [SPEAKER_03]: That you wear.
[41:44.000 --> 41:44.580] [SPEAKER_03]: Clothing, yeah.
[41:44.720 --> 41:45.340] [SPEAKER_03]: D-I-F-E-A-R, okay.
[41:45.560 --> 41:46.600] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that their website?
[41:47.400 --> 41:47.800] [SPEAKER_03]: Probably.
[41:48.460 --> 41:49.840] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, differwear.com.
[41:49.940 --> 41:50.220] [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[41:50.280 --> 41:51.800] [SPEAKER_08]: I'll buy them when they come out with the...
[41:51.800 --> 41:52.700] [SPEAKER_08]: They're located in Brooklyn.
[41:52.860 --> 41:53.160] [SPEAKER_08]: ...synthetic version.
[41:54.100 --> 41:54.620] [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[41:54.680 --> 41:59.440] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, as far as the talk for Steve Rambam, we're still looking.
[41:59.620 --> 42:01.080] [SPEAKER_15]: And, you know, I have to say I'm disappointed.
[42:01.200 --> 42:06.620] [SPEAKER_15]: Usually WBAI listeners flock with information on how we can pull off the impossible.
[42:06.760 --> 42:08.420] [SPEAKER_15]: We need to pull off the impossible one more time.
[42:09.060 --> 42:22.740] [SPEAKER_15]: Steve, as you know, was arrested before he was able to give his talk at the conference, two-hour talk, basically talking about privacy, talking about the information he was able to find out on one person who volunteered just by giving his name and I think...
[42:22.740 --> 42:23.780] [SPEAKER_15]: Was there anything else he gave?
[42:23.860 --> 42:24.540] [SPEAKER_15]: Email address, maybe?
[42:24.660 --> 42:25.140] [SPEAKER_15]: Phone number.
[42:25.360 --> 42:25.940] [SPEAKER_15]: Name and phone number?
[42:26.060 --> 42:26.240] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[42:26.480 --> 42:29.360] [SPEAKER_15]: And how much information he was able to get just based on that.
[42:30.200 --> 42:44.280] [SPEAKER_15]: And what we're trying to do, since he was prevented from giving that talk, is have a makeup talk that would be free admission and accessible to people in the area, which we would then videotape and distribute to people who came to the conference.
[42:44.340 --> 42:45.140] [SPEAKER_15]: But we need a space.
[42:45.140 --> 42:49.240] [SPEAKER_15]: We almost had a place in Columbia and that fell through.
[42:49.360 --> 42:55.160] [SPEAKER_15]: So we're looking for anything in the region where it's possible that we can have a two-hour seminar.
[42:56.020 --> 42:56.380] [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[42:56.440 --> 42:58.740] [SPEAKER_15]: So if you know something, send us an email.
[42:58.880 --> 43:00.560] [SPEAKER_15]: oth@2600.com.
[43:00.740 --> 43:01.380] [SPEAKER_15]: We would...
[43:01.380 --> 43:03.740] [SPEAKER_08]: Can we do it in a public space or not really?
[43:03.820 --> 43:04.760] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, what do you mean by public space?
[43:04.840 --> 43:05.420] [SPEAKER_15]: In the middle of a street?
[43:05.620 --> 43:06.700] [SPEAKER_08]: Park or something like that?
[43:06.980 --> 43:08.560] [SPEAKER_15]: You know, like Shakespeare in the park?
[43:08.740 --> 43:09.660] [SPEAKER_15]: Have Steve in the park?
[43:09.780 --> 43:10.100] [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know.
[43:10.200 --> 43:10.440] [SPEAKER_15]: Maybe.
[43:11.440 --> 43:15.560] [SPEAKER_15]: I could see that happening, but I'm just worried about acoustics and also weather.
[43:15.780 --> 43:16.360] [SPEAKER_08]: Weather, yeah.
[43:16.900 --> 43:19.060] [SPEAKER_15]: There are a lot of auditoriums in this city.
[43:19.140 --> 43:20.520] [SPEAKER_15]: That's one thing the city is known for.
[43:21.600 --> 43:24.780] [SPEAKER_15]: I think New York has set the record for a number of auditoriums in the square mile footage.
[43:24.960 --> 43:25.340] [SPEAKER_15]: It's true.
[43:25.720 --> 43:26.140] [SPEAKER_15]: Look it up.
[43:26.400 --> 43:26.900] [SPEAKER_15]: Is it?
[43:27.220 --> 43:31.880] [SPEAKER_15]: And if we just have access to one that can hold a couple hundred people, we'll be happy.
[43:32.060 --> 43:35.060] [SPEAKER_15]: And then we can get the word out to everybody else.
[43:35.060 --> 43:36.980] [SPEAKER_15]: We can spread the DVDs that we make of it.
[43:36.980 --> 43:42.840] [SPEAKER_15]: And just send the message that, yeah, you know, you can try and shut down people, but they're going to speak out anyway.
[43:44.060 --> 43:46.600] [SPEAKER_15]: And again, oth@2600.com.
[43:47.080 --> 43:54.160] [SPEAKER_15]: Our regular snail mail address is off the hook, care of WBAI, 120 Wall Street.
[43:54.820 --> 43:55.520] [SPEAKER_15]: 10th floor.
[43:55.880 --> 43:56.520] [SPEAKER_15]: New York.
[43:56.820 --> 43:57.260] [SPEAKER_15]: New York.
[43:57.640 --> 44:00.160] [SPEAKER_15]: 1-0-0-0-5.
[44:00.380 --> 44:00.800] [SPEAKER_15]: All right, then.
[44:01.440 --> 44:02.800] [SPEAKER_15]: Shall we go to the phones?
[44:04.080 --> 44:04.920] [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, let's.
[44:04.920 --> 44:05.980] [SPEAKER_15]: I've gone over to this phone.
[44:06.980 --> 44:07.600] [SPEAKER_15]: That's most of our calls.
[44:08.000 --> 44:08.840] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, maybe they...
[44:08.840 --> 44:11.320] [SPEAKER_15]: I think what they do is they bounce someplace that we can't see.
[44:11.500 --> 44:12.340] [SPEAKER_15]: I think that's what happens.
[44:12.500 --> 44:14.800] [SPEAKER_15]: Anyway, we're going to try and pick up some calls here.
[44:14.880 --> 44:15.140] [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[44:15.540 --> 44:16.380] [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the radio.
[44:17.200 --> 44:17.640] [SPEAKER_15]: You see?
[44:17.700 --> 44:18.500] [SPEAKER_15]: And that's what happens.
[44:18.580 --> 44:19.260] [SPEAKER_15]: That's what happens.
[44:19.260 --> 44:20.180] [SPEAKER_15]: Almost invariably.
[44:20.480 --> 44:22.420] [SPEAKER_15]: Because they get bounced someplace, I don't know where they are.
[44:22.560 --> 44:23.720] [SPEAKER_15]: I'm going to pick one in the middle.
[44:23.920 --> 44:25.380] [SPEAKER_15]: That way I'm assured of getting something.
[44:25.580 --> 44:26.080] [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[44:26.200 --> 44:26.720] [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[44:27.380 --> 44:27.980] [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[44:28.280 --> 44:28.740] [SPEAKER_15]: How are you?
[44:29.100 --> 44:29.380] [SPEAKER_09]: Good.
[44:29.380 --> 44:30.340] [SPEAKER_09]: It's Richard calling.
[44:30.500 --> 44:31.020] [SPEAKER_09]: How are you, gentlemen?
[44:31.100 --> 44:31.800] [SPEAKER_09]: Richard, how are you?
[44:31.800 --> 44:32.620] [SPEAKER_09]: Where are you calling from?
[44:33.660 --> 44:33.980] [SPEAKER_09]: Queens.
[44:34.300 --> 44:34.520] [SPEAKER_15]: Queens.
[44:34.680 --> 44:34.860] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[44:35.000 --> 44:35.580] [SPEAKER_15]: What's on your mind?
[44:36.780 --> 44:41.980] [SPEAKER_09]: I thought we were... I was going to ask you guys about Rombom, but you guys covered that right when I was calling in.
[44:42.140 --> 44:42.820] [SPEAKER_06]: We read your mind.
[44:43.240 --> 44:44.000] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, you did.
[44:44.180 --> 44:47.360] [SPEAKER_09]: But what I want to know about... We were talking about ANI spoofing and stuff.
[44:47.620 --> 44:51.700] [SPEAKER_09]: Didn't sites like Camel Phone and Covert Call offer proper ANI spoofing?
[44:52.620 --> 44:55.160] [SPEAKER_15]: Was it ANI spoofing or caller ID spoofing or both?
[44:55.460 --> 44:56.460] [SPEAKER_09]: I think it was both.
[44:56.780 --> 45:00.980] [SPEAKER_09]: They both got shut down, so maybe they did manage to figure out ANI spoofing.
[45:01.080 --> 45:02.460] [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, there is a way to do it, certainly.
[45:03.340 --> 45:04.600] [SPEAKER_15]: People have been doing this for years.
[45:05.360 --> 45:07.100] [SPEAKER_15]: But most people aren't aware of it.
[45:07.220 --> 45:11.460] [SPEAKER_15]: Most people call 800 numbers and assume that if they put a *67 in front of it, they're going to block their number.
[45:11.620 --> 45:14.020] [SPEAKER_15]: And it's just important to realize that that's not the case.
[45:14.680 --> 45:19.880] [SPEAKER_15]: But yeah, there are people out there always trying to figure out how to spoof these things, and some of them have been quite successful.
[45:20.800 --> 45:22.480] [SPEAKER_15]: And yeah, the authorities are taking an interest.
[45:22.960 --> 45:24.100] [SPEAKER_15]: They're shutting down these sites.
[45:24.600 --> 45:27.940] [SPEAKER_09]: Wasn't there an article in 2600 Magazine a while ago about ANI spoofing?
[45:28.100 --> 45:29.080] [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sure there was.
[45:29.320 --> 45:29.580] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[45:29.740 --> 45:29.880] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[45:30.220 --> 45:31.840] [SPEAKER_09]: I have to go take it out of my archive.
[45:31.840 --> 45:37.300] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, just go to the Yahoo store and search, because we list all the titles there.
[45:37.520 --> 45:39.660] [SPEAKER_15]: So if it existed, it would show up there.
[45:40.280 --> 45:40.620] [SPEAKER_15]: Awesome.
[45:40.920 --> 45:41.760] [SPEAKER_15]: All right, thanks for your call.
[45:42.080 --> 45:42.500] [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks, guys.
[45:42.860 --> 45:44.800] [SPEAKER_15]: 212-209-2900.
[45:45.380 --> 45:46.340] [SPEAKER_15]: Let's go up here.
[45:46.800 --> 45:47.860] [SPEAKER_15]: And good evening, you're on the air.
[45:48.340 --> 45:48.740] [SPEAKER_12]: Hi.
[45:49.000 --> 45:49.740] [SPEAKER_15]: Hi, what's on your mind?
[45:49.960 --> 45:54.580] [SPEAKER_12]: I just got back from Italy, and I thought it was interesting, kind of, with soccer there.
[45:55.060 --> 45:55.660] [SPEAKER_15]: World Cup.
[45:55.920 --> 45:56.460] [SPEAKER_15]: Say again, what?
[45:56.460 --> 46:01.180] [SPEAKER_12]: I just got back from Italy, and I thought it was interesting with the soccer there, the World Cup.
[46:01.780 --> 46:03.580] [SPEAKER_15]: Winning the World Cup and also the big scandal.
[46:03.840 --> 46:04.440] [SPEAKER_12]: It was kind of...
[46:04.440 --> 46:05.160] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, well, that too.
[46:05.260 --> 46:07.020] [SPEAKER_12]: But it was kind of reminding me of...
[46:07.980 --> 46:12.580] [SPEAKER_12]: The whole commercial aspect was kind of like ESPN, where it was...
[46:12.580 --> 46:15.960] [SPEAKER_12]: They had the little banners at the bottom, so I thought it was just as bad.
[46:16.620 --> 46:18.840] [SPEAKER_12]: So it was kind of disappointing in that sense.
[46:19.480 --> 46:19.840] [SPEAKER_15]: Really?
[46:19.840 --> 46:22.520] [SPEAKER_15]: So you're saying things are as commercial over there as they are over here?
[46:22.660 --> 46:22.880] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[46:23.420 --> 46:25.420] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I suppose that's not that surprising.
[46:25.420 --> 46:25.820] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[46:26.220 --> 46:28.380] [SPEAKER_12]: Also, I wanted to get some information.
[46:28.640 --> 46:41.160] [SPEAKER_12]: A while ago, you said that I missed the hope, so if you are getting the ham radio license, could you give me a website to find that?
[46:41.320 --> 46:47.960] [SPEAKER_08]: If you go to ARRL.org, you can search for all the VE sessions in your area, and you can certainly find a place to take the exam.
[46:48.360 --> 46:48.820] [SPEAKER_12]: All right, thank you.
[46:48.940 --> 46:53.360] [SPEAKER_08]: If you want to find practice exams as well, you can go to QRZ.com, QRZ.com.
[46:53.740 --> 46:54.180] All right, thanks.
[46:54.300 --> 46:55.080] [SPEAKER_15]: All right, thanks for your call.
[46:55.420 --> 46:57.120] [SPEAKER_15]: 212-209-2900.
[46:57.400 --> 46:57.880] [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[46:58.020 --> 46:58.400] [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[46:59.400 --> 46:59.840] [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[47:00.040 --> 47:00.240] [SPEAKER_16]: Hello?
[47:00.440 --> 47:01.080] [SPEAKER_15]: Hi, what's on your mind?
[47:01.600 --> 47:05.160] [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, I got a website where people can...
[47:06.220 --> 47:07.180] [SPEAKER_15]: Now turn down your radio.
[47:07.500 --> 47:08.060] [SPEAKER_15]: Turn down your radio.
[47:08.160 --> 47:08.560] [SPEAKER_15]: You're on delay.
[47:09.100 --> 47:09.660] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, okay.
[47:10.440 --> 47:11.720] [SPEAKER_16]: I'm directly on the line, right?
[47:12.360 --> 47:12.780] [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[47:13.540 --> 47:18.380] [SPEAKER_16]: Earlier, you guys were talking about which website that is the most popular website.
[47:18.380 --> 47:25.420] [SPEAKER_16]: And I think the guest, actually the host of the show said Yahoo, and he is correct.
[47:26.440 --> 47:28.280] [SPEAKER_16]: As for future reference...
[47:28.280 --> 47:28.540] [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you.
[47:28.740 --> 47:29.100] [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you.
[47:29.140 --> 47:31.320] [SPEAKER_15]: It's good to hear somebody say that for once.
[47:31.440 --> 47:31.760] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, yeah.
[47:31.920 --> 47:32.260] [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you.
[47:32.620 --> 47:40.300] [SPEAKER_16]: There's another website where you can go to, and it tells you which sites are in what position.
[47:40.810 --> 47:43.800] [SPEAKER_16]: The name of that website is alexa.com.
[47:44.060 --> 47:45.040] [SPEAKER_15]: How do you spell that?
[47:45.500 --> 47:45.920] [SPEAKER_16]: Alexa.
[47:46.120 --> 47:47.500] [SPEAKER_16]: A-L-E-X-A.
[47:47.500 --> 47:48.460] [SPEAKER_16]: You don't need a Touch-Tone, do you?
[47:49.240 --> 47:50.440] [SPEAKER_16]: Spell it without the Touch-Tone.
[47:50.860 --> 47:51.420] [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[47:51.780 --> 47:54.500] [SPEAKER_16]: A-L-E-X-A.com.
[47:54.920 --> 47:55.280] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[47:55.300 --> 47:57.180] [SPEAKER_15]: What happens if that site becomes very popular?
[47:57.960 --> 47:59.020] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's the question.
[47:59.340 --> 48:01.280] [SPEAKER_16]: Actually, they can...
[48:01.280 --> 48:03.680] [SPEAKER_16]: That website rates itself as well.
[48:04.080 --> 48:04.580] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, really?
[48:04.720 --> 48:04.920] [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[48:05.700 --> 48:07.300] [SPEAKER_08]: MySpace is number four on that webpage.
[48:07.560 --> 48:08.300] [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, are we on that webpage?
[48:08.300 --> 48:09.320] [SPEAKER_08]: MSN is number two.
[48:09.500 --> 48:10.100] [SPEAKER_08]: Google is number three.
[48:10.100 --> 48:10.940] [SPEAKER_08]: How far down do they go?
[48:11.040 --> 48:11.920] [SPEAKER_08]: They go to like a million?
[48:12.180 --> 48:12.640] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, 500.
[48:12.640 --> 48:13.140] [SPEAKER_08]: Somebody might be on there.
[48:13.180 --> 48:15.400] [SPEAKER_08]: I see five, but there's probably 500.
[48:15.780 --> 48:16.920] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, they go beyond a million.
[48:17.260 --> 48:17.420] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[48:17.700 --> 48:18.000] [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[48:18.120 --> 48:19.320] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, find us on there.
[48:19.340 --> 48:22.740] [SPEAKER_15]: I'm kind of curious as to how we rank in an all-time...
[48:22.740 --> 48:23.020] [SPEAKER_15]: Wow.
[48:23.360 --> 48:23.640] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[48:23.740 --> 48:26.240] [SPEAKER_15]: So is this in the world or just in the United States or...?
[48:26.240 --> 48:27.420] [SPEAKER_15]: I can sort by country.
[48:27.520 --> 48:28.300] [SPEAKER_15]: I can do all this cool stuff.
[48:29.280 --> 48:30.000] [SPEAKER_16]: I don't...
[48:30.000 --> 48:35.060] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it actually tells you the information about the site that you're searching for.
[48:35.060 --> 48:38.180] [SPEAKER_16]: But I think it searches for sites all over the world.
[48:38.300 --> 48:38.880] [SPEAKER_15]: You might...
[48:39.260 --> 48:43.060] [SPEAKER_08]: I'd like you to tell me the number one site in Afghanistan that people go for.
[48:43.180 --> 48:43.660] [SPEAKER_08]: We could find out.
[48:43.720 --> 48:46.080] [SPEAKER_08]: But you might be depressed about the 2600 ranking.
[48:46.320 --> 48:46.640] [SPEAKER_08]: Go ahead.
[48:46.720 --> 48:47.900] [SPEAKER_08]: It's far higher than 2600.
[48:48.200 --> 48:48.680] [SPEAKER_08]: It's what?
[48:48.880 --> 48:50.420] [SPEAKER_08]: It's far higher than 2600.
[48:50.440 --> 48:50.640] [SPEAKER_08]: Really?
[48:52.320 --> 48:53.040] [SPEAKER_08]: 60,309.
[48:53.220 --> 48:54.040] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, okay, fine.
[48:54.160 --> 48:55.660] [SPEAKER_15]: But who's right next to us?
[48:55.740 --> 48:56.180] [SPEAKER_15]: And who's...
[48:56.180 --> 48:57.420] [SPEAKER_15]: You know, who are our neighbors?
[48:58.120 --> 48:59.080] [SPEAKER_08]: Afghanistan isn't there.
[48:59.440 --> 49:00.080] [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know.
[49:00.180 --> 49:00.460] [SPEAKER_15]: Hold on.
[49:00.560 --> 49:01.020] [SPEAKER_15]: It doesn't say?
[49:01.140 --> 49:02.280] [SPEAKER_15]: It doesn't have a listing?
[49:03.080 --> 49:03.740] [SPEAKER_03]: Not for Afghanistan?
[49:03.740 --> 49:04.760] [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for the info, by the way.
[49:04.820 --> 49:09.120] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's our goal now, to get 2600.com into the 2600 position.
[49:09.340 --> 49:16.140] [SPEAKER_15]: Do you realize, though, that you're talking about all the huge corporations that have lots and lots of people and all the blogs that everybody reads?
[49:16.260 --> 49:17.000] [SPEAKER_02]: We're hackers.
[49:17.000 --> 49:18.120] [SPEAKER_02]: We can fake it.
[49:18.340 --> 49:18.560] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[49:20.140 --> 49:20.480] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, okay.
[49:20.580 --> 49:21.880] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, he's figuring that out.
[49:22.020 --> 49:22.980] [SPEAKER_15]: We're going to take another phone call.
[49:24.200 --> 49:24.560] [SPEAKER_15]: And...
[49:24.560 --> 49:24.680] [SPEAKER_15]: Whoops.
[49:24.760 --> 49:25.020] [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[49:25.060 --> 49:25.560] [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[49:26.720 --> 49:27.260] [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead.
[49:28.300 --> 49:28.940] [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[49:29.300 --> 49:30.000] [SPEAKER_15]: Let's go over here.
[49:30.100 --> 49:30.380] [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[49:30.380 --> 49:31.040] [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[49:32.860 --> 49:34.060] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, where are you calling, from space?
[49:34.800 --> 49:35.200] [SPEAKER_15]: Hello?
[49:35.400 --> 49:35.940] [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, go ahead.
[49:36.440 --> 49:36.860] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, hi.
[49:38.160 --> 49:39.120] [SPEAKER_15]: You are in space.
[49:39.800 --> 49:41.240] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, all right.
[49:41.300 --> 49:42.360] [SPEAKER_15]: That was a call from space.
[49:43.260 --> 49:44.800] [SPEAKER_15]: Everything seems to be just fine up there.
[49:45.960 --> 49:46.940] [SPEAKER_15]: Learning anything yet, Redbird?
[49:47.200 --> 49:48.360] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, we're looking.
[49:48.640 --> 49:50.380] [SPEAKER_08]: There's all sorts of interesting stuff.
[49:50.540 --> 49:56.740] [SPEAKER_08]: People who visit this page also visit freekevinmitnick, takedown.com, l0pht.com, Cult of the Dead Cow, Phrack.
[49:56.740 --> 49:58.340] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, but can you tell us...
[49:58.340 --> 49:59.480] [SPEAKER_15]: You can't tell us who's around.
[49:59.480 --> 50:01.120] [SPEAKER_15]: You don't have a huge list there, huh?
[50:01.120 --> 50:02.080] [SPEAKER_15]: No, I don't have a huge list.
[50:02.140 --> 50:02.400] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[50:03.080 --> 50:03.420] [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[50:03.660 --> 50:04.260] [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[50:04.400 --> 50:04.780] [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[50:06.340 --> 50:06.960] [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead.
[50:07.600 --> 50:09.380] [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, let me get that radio off.
[50:09.520 --> 50:09.640] [SPEAKER_18]: Yes.
[50:11.720 --> 50:12.520] [SPEAKER_18]: Hey, maybe...
[50:12.520 --> 50:14.860] [SPEAKER_18]: Can you guys feel the telephony 101 question?
[50:15.100 --> 50:15.800] [SPEAKER_15]: We can try.
[50:16.200 --> 50:16.580] [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[50:17.340 --> 50:24.840] [SPEAKER_18]: I do my own electrical work in the house, and I'm in the position where I've needed to test my phone line.
[50:25.260 --> 50:28.120] [SPEAKER_18]: And there used to be a number you could call to get your phone to ring.
[50:28.880 --> 50:31.180] [SPEAKER_18]: And I don't know what that is anymore.
[50:31.400 --> 50:32.240] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, well, it used to...
[50:32.240 --> 50:32.500] [SPEAKER_15]: Where are you?
[50:32.580 --> 50:32.960] [SPEAKER_15]: In New York?
[50:33.180 --> 50:33.480] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[50:33.760 --> 50:41.200] [SPEAKER_15]: It used to be 660, followed by, I believe, your seven-digit phone number, and you would flash the receiver and hang up, and it would ring back.
[50:41.620 --> 50:43.500] [SPEAKER_15]: I haven't tried that in years, so I don't know if it still works.
[50:43.500 --> 50:45.460] [SPEAKER_06]: 660, followed by seven digits.
[50:46.020 --> 50:47.280] [SPEAKER_15]: Followed by your phone number.
[50:47.320 --> 50:47.540] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[50:47.880 --> 50:50.540] [SPEAKER_15]: And then hang up, pick up again, and it would ring back.
[50:50.740 --> 50:51.780] [SPEAKER_15]: That's how it used to work.
[50:51.840 --> 50:53.340] [SPEAKER_15]: Now, I'm being waved at by all these people.
[50:53.440 --> 50:54.420] [SPEAKER_15]: Jim, you have an update to this?
[50:54.800 --> 51:00.880] [SPEAKER_02]: As far as I know, I thought it used to be 660, and then the same last four digits as the last four digits you're doing.
[51:01.180 --> 51:02.480] [SPEAKER_15]: It depends on your central office.
[51:02.600 --> 51:04.660] [SPEAKER_15]: Some central offices just require the last four digits.
[51:04.820 --> 51:06.080] [SPEAKER_15]: Some require the last seven.
[51:14.220 --> 51:15.760] [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know if it even still exists.
[51:15.940 --> 51:16.800] [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know if you can still do it.
[51:17.140 --> 51:17.960] [SPEAKER_18]: I've always used...
[51:17.960 --> 51:21.620] [SPEAKER_18]: But telephone repair guys must have to be able to do that all the time, no?
[51:21.820 --> 51:24.920] [SPEAKER_15]: That's true, although maybe they just use their cell phone and dial it.
[51:24.980 --> 51:25.420] [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know.
[51:25.960 --> 51:27.000] [SPEAKER_15]: Things have changed.
[51:27.460 --> 51:28.680] [SPEAKER_15]: I've always used 550.
[51:29.140 --> 51:29.500] [SPEAKER_15]: 550?
[51:29.920 --> 51:30.040] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[51:30.120 --> 51:33.120] [SPEAKER_15]: But 550 is a mass announcement service recording here.
[51:33.760 --> 51:38.960] [SPEAKER_15]: The 550 plus something, you'll get connected to a conference that will charge $10 a minute or something.
[51:39.040 --> 51:43.480] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, in area code 201, which is my area code, 550 in the last four.
[51:43.480 --> 51:45.780] [SPEAKER_15]: It's a different state, so different rules apply, obviously.
[51:46.020 --> 51:46.980] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, people are listening from there.
[51:47.200 --> 51:50.840] [SPEAKER_15]: So, yeah, if you know ringback numbers, consider this an appeal for ringback numbers.
[51:50.960 --> 51:53.520] [SPEAKER_15]: We'll certainly spread them around.
[51:53.640 --> 52:00.180] [SPEAKER_18]: Remember the old days when you used to dial 330, wait for your dial tone to come back, then dial 6, and then hang up?
[52:00.420 --> 52:01.680] [SPEAKER_15]: No, I don't remember that at all.
[52:01.760 --> 52:04.740] [SPEAKER_18]: That goes back to around 1960.
[52:05.260 --> 52:05.620] [SPEAKER_15]: Wow.
[52:05.780 --> 52:07.120] [SPEAKER_15]: Wait, how would this work exactly?
[52:08.020 --> 52:12.560] [SPEAKER_18]: I remember it because our friends used to fake each other out, you know, like, oh, there's a phone call for you.
[52:12.560 --> 52:13.720] [SPEAKER_18]: You, you know, you'd have to...
[52:14.140 --> 52:16.880] [SPEAKER_15]: That was back when having fun was so much simpler, wasn't it?
[52:16.980 --> 52:18.340] [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, right, when you're 10 years old.
[52:19.860 --> 52:26.860] [SPEAKER_18]: In those days, in Brooklyn, I remember you would dial 330, then it would come back to you with a dial tone.
[52:27.040 --> 52:27.340] [SPEAKER_15]: Wow.
[52:27.340 --> 52:31.940] [SPEAKER_18]: Then you would have to dial 6, and then hang up, and that would make your phone ring.
[52:32.040 --> 52:33.840] [SPEAKER_15]: What if you dialed something else after dialing 330?
[52:34.180 --> 52:42.840] [SPEAKER_18]: I once... I remember fooling around with it, and I found that if you dial 330, and you got a dial tone, and I said, well... and I was asked that same question, what if I dial other stuff?
[52:42.960 --> 52:43.160] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[52:43.480 --> 52:48.800] [SPEAKER_18]: And I got into some other central office, and somebody picked up the phone, basically, what do you think you're doing?
[52:50.700 --> 52:51.060] [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[52:51.060 --> 52:53.440] [SPEAKER_18]: But here's one more, one last.
[52:53.640 --> 52:56.500] [SPEAKER_18]: What about when you want to know what your phone number is?
[52:56.660 --> 52:59.400] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I think 958 still works.
[52:59.520 --> 53:07.880] [SPEAKER_15]: I know in some places, it's now four digits, you have to dial 9580 or 9581, and one of those returns Touch-Tones, one of those returns a voice.
[53:08.560 --> 53:15.660] [SPEAKER_15]: There are also all sorts of 800 and 877 numbers you can call to have somebody read back your phone number using ANI,
[53:16.920 --> 53:21.040] [SPEAKER_18]: So it's just 958, and you get the mechanical voice.
[53:21.060 --> 53:22.480] [SPEAKER_15]: In most of New York, yes.
[53:22.520 --> 53:23.780] [SPEAKER_15]: I think 958 still works.
[53:23.860 --> 53:27.580] [SPEAKER_15]: There might be other variations of that, and again, if people know these, please let us know, because we're curious.
[53:28.700 --> 53:29.720] [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks for the call.
[53:29.820 --> 53:33.080] [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks for all those memories, even though I didn't have those ones, but it's fascinating.
[53:33.780 --> 53:34.540] [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, thanks a lot.
[53:34.700 --> 53:35.040] [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[53:35.280 --> 53:42.160] [SPEAKER_15]: And if you have any memories or things about phones, please feel free to email us, oth@2600.com.
[53:42.240 --> 53:43.060] [SPEAKER_15]: We'd like to hear about them.
[53:43.100 --> 53:43.440] [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, Bernie?
[53:44.400 --> 53:50.080] [SPEAKER_07]: An easy way, also, if you have a cell phone, is just call your cell phone, and the caller ID will appear on your cell phone of the line you're calling from.
[53:50.080 --> 53:51.260] [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, that's...
[53:51.260 --> 53:53.220] [SPEAKER_07]: It's not as straightforward, but some people don't get that.
[53:53.620 --> 54:02.100] [SPEAKER_15]: Somehow it loses the magic that dialing those numbers and having things ring back and freaking people out carried with it.
[54:02.200 --> 54:02.380] [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[54:02.440 --> 54:03.740] [SPEAKER_15]: 212-209-2900.
[54:03.840 --> 54:04.140] [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[54:04.280 --> 54:04.760] [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[54:06.380 --> 54:07.040] [SPEAKER_15]: Speak up.
[54:07.440 --> 54:08.060] [SPEAKER_11]: Hi there.
[54:08.360 --> 54:08.640] [SPEAKER_15]: Hi.
[54:08.640 --> 54:09.120] [SPEAKER_15]: What's on your mind?
[54:09.120 --> 54:25.020] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm calling about the new articles in the New Yorker and the New York Times that have to do with the uselessness of the computer and bloggers as far as mass communications goes in, say, the election in Connecticut.
[54:25.600 --> 54:29.440] [SPEAKER_11]: And they're very, very nervous, it appears to me, especially the New Yorker article.
[54:30.440 --> 54:51.300] [SPEAKER_11]: Mainstream journalists from the AP, the New York Times, which killed the Downing Street memo story and several important stories, they had an end run run around them by people on the Internet and blogs and email and basically all computer media, which got word out on very important things on many topical political issues.
[54:51.640 --> 55:01.720] [SPEAKER_11]: And there seems to be a panic going on in mainstream news organizations to try to kind of diss the media and diss bloggers and email as having no impact.
[55:01.760 --> 55:02.980] [SPEAKER_11]: I think they're feeling very threatened.
[55:02.980 --> 55:05.040] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, they definitely are, and for good reason.
[55:05.040 --> 55:13.460] [SPEAKER_15]: If someone out there acts as a journalist using the resources at their fingertips, then they certainly can do a better job of it.
[55:13.680 --> 55:21.280] [SPEAKER_15]: Of course, there's also a lot of noise out there as well, but if you can filter through it, well then, you might actually be able to make a very important point.
[55:25.710 --> 55:26.430] [SPEAKER_10]: It's Dexter!
[55:55.590 --> 56:01.310] [SPEAKER_15]: We'll be back again next week.
[56:01.470 --> 56:03.490] [SPEAKER_15]: Write to us, oth@2600.com.
[56:03.590 --> 56:05.030] [SPEAKER_15]: Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show.
[56:05.370 --> 56:05.730] [SPEAKER_15]: Good night.