Off The Hook - 2007-01-17

[00:00.000 --> 00:03.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: For Free Speech Radio News, this is Maiva Liebenthal.
[00:11.540 --> 00:16.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: The French government agreed to introduce the legal right to a home for all today.
[00:16.680 --> 00:26.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: The plan, which is likely to sail through both Houses of Parliament before April's presidential election, is a response to homeless campaigns which have embarrassed politicians into action.
[00:27.420 --> 00:29.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: FSRN's Toni Kross reports from Paris.
[00:35.220 --> 00:42.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's 7.01 time on WBAI New York for another edition of Off The Hook.
[01:58.730 --> 01:59.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: And a good evening to everybody.
[01:59.910 --> 02:00.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: The program is Off The Hook.
[02:00.750 --> 02:03.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:03.770 --> 02:04.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Special edition of the program.
[02:04.950 --> 02:07.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have the first of our two fundraising shows.
[02:08.470 --> 02:14.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: We won't be on again next week, but we will be on two weeks with our final fundraising edition.
[02:14.650 --> 02:16.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: So hopefully we'll do well.
[02:16.250 --> 02:17.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: The station will remain where it is.
[02:18.050 --> 02:21.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: And more editions of Off The Hook can come your way in weeks to come.
[02:22.130 --> 02:25.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Joining me tonight over there is Jim.
[02:25.630 --> 02:25.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Jim.
[02:26.330 --> 02:27.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Nord to you all.
[02:27.770 --> 02:28.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: And Redbird.
[02:29.290 --> 02:29.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening.
[02:30.350 --> 02:30.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Mike.
[02:31.230 --> 02:31.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hi.
[02:32.150 --> 02:33.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: And over here is Not Kevin.
[02:34.190 --> 02:34.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.
[02:35.050 --> 02:35.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bernie S.
[02:35.610 --> 02:36.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: joining us from Philadelphia.
[02:37.110 --> 02:38.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:38.530 --> 02:40.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we have a couple of special guests tonight.
[02:40.850 --> 02:43.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have Phil from Make Magazine.
[02:43.530 --> 02:43.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hey.
[02:44.010 --> 02:44.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: How you doing?
[02:44.670 --> 02:44.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: Great.
[02:45.250 --> 02:50.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: And on the phone with us from California is Mitch Altman, inventor of the TV-B-Gone.
[02:50.430 --> 02:50.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: Howdy.
[02:51.190 --> 02:58.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: Which I guess is sort of a hint as to one of the things we'll be offering tonight for those of you who are kind enough to call us and pledge.
[02:58.330 --> 03:01.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: So you can save time and call right away, 212-209-2950.
[03:02.550 --> 03:07.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is the first show in the winter fundraiser.
[03:07.370 --> 03:10.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we do have to have the winter fundraiser every year.
[03:10.910 --> 03:12.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's no getting around it.
[03:12.330 --> 03:16.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the fact that we haven't had much of a winter this year doesn't get us out of it.
[03:16.390 --> 03:19.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: We still have to go right ahead and do that.
[03:19.590 --> 03:22.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: So 212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[03:22.790 --> 03:26.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: A pledge of $50 will get you a TV-B-Gone.
[03:27.510 --> 03:31.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: But we'll get into more details as to all the cool things that we have for you guys.
[03:31.470 --> 03:36.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you call now, it's your best opportunity to confuse the pledge volunteer if you're into that.
[03:36.430 --> 03:37.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Why would they become more confused now?
[03:38.290 --> 03:41.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, they haven't had a time to look over our wonderful premiums list.
[03:41.730 --> 03:42.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: What were they doing all the time before?
[03:43.110 --> 03:46.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: They'll have to explain it to you because you won't have heard it on the air yet.
[03:46.350 --> 03:46.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, no.
[03:46.510 --> 03:50.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: They should come in hours beforehand and look it over and get acquainted with it.
[03:50.850 --> 03:52.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: But hopefully they're catching up.
[03:52.530 --> 03:53.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think they're catching up.
[03:53.970 --> 03:55.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, people should call in and test them.
[03:56.010 --> 03:57.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: 212-209-2950.
[03:57.450 --> 04:01.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's not cause too much animosity between on air and down the hall.
[04:02.030 --> 04:04.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, we have a couple of interesting stories.
[04:05.030 --> 04:09.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: First of all, okay, this is kind of lead-breaking news because it's just happened.
[04:10.490 --> 04:14.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: A new feature has been added to the 2600 website.
[04:14.310 --> 04:35.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: We now have, actually to the HOPE website, we have something known as the HOPE Forums available for people to speak about various HOPE-related issues, whether it's memories of conferences past or plans for the future conferences, as well as any chance that we might have to keep our hotel from being torn down and replaced with an office tower,
[04:35.970 --> 04:40.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: which is what has been announced as the plan for the Hotel Pennsylvania.
[04:41.510 --> 04:48.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Not very good news for us since that's been our home for the HOPE conferences for five out of the six conferences that have taken place since 1994.
[04:49.570 --> 04:52.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go to talk.hope.net.
[04:52.510 --> 05:04.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: Talk.hope.net will bring you to a forum, much like all the other forums you see online, except this one will have all kinds of discussion concerning the HOPE conferences 2600, maybe even off the hook.
[05:04.770 --> 05:13.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's interesting because right away, we put this up maybe about an hour ago, and already it's being flooded with posts and new people registering.
[05:13.270 --> 05:15.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's really kind of cool seeing it grow like this.
[05:15.970 --> 05:24.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have a section on there for upcoming events, upcoming non-HOPE events, events in addition to HOPE.
[05:24.290 --> 05:33.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: And one of the things that we asked initially was about the chaos camp that's taking place this summer.
[05:33.350 --> 05:36.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Every four years in Germany, there's the hacker camp outdoors.
[05:36.770 --> 05:40.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: And this summer is the Germans' turn.
[05:40.610 --> 05:45.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Every four years alternating with this, it happens in Holland, and, of course, the other years are HOPE conferences.
[05:46.050 --> 05:58.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we almost immediately got a response back from somebody over in Germany saying that the dates that they're aiming for the CCC camp are August 8th through August 12th.
[05:58.470 --> 06:04.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: So those of you planning on going to Germany for the camp, mark that down in your calendar.
[06:04.490 --> 06:04.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's five days.
[06:04.890 --> 06:05.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's five days.
[06:05.450 --> 06:07.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, there's a lot to do.
[06:07.810 --> 06:08.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot to do out there.
[06:09.030 --> 06:12.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's really great to build the place, to build the village from scratch.
[06:12.810 --> 06:14.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: You go out there, there's a field.
[06:14.730 --> 06:20.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then before you know it, there's Internet connectivity, electricity, tents, buildings being constructed.
[06:20.570 --> 06:22.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Phil, you've never gone to one of these things, have you?
[06:22.170 --> 06:22.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, I haven't.
[06:22.890 --> 06:23.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: You have to.
[06:23.570 --> 06:23.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[06:24.050 --> 06:24.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: You have to.
[06:24.710 --> 06:24.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Done.
[06:35.690 --> 06:38.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: In a week or two, there'll be more information on this.
[06:38.190 --> 06:43.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: The CCC organization is still busy negotiating with the owners of the preferred location.
[06:44.170 --> 06:45.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: It might happen a week earlier.
[06:45.630 --> 06:46.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: It might happen a week later.
[06:47.410 --> 06:51.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're also told that there's going to be a hacker camp in Croatia in May.
[06:52.110 --> 06:58.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: And there's a website about that at www.yaxwe.org.
[07:00.310 --> 07:01.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: www.yaxwe.org.
[07:02.070 --> 07:05.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to try and pronounce whatever that says, but the hacker camp in Croatia.
[07:05.170 --> 07:09.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, within an hour, we've learned of two events taking place this year, which is pretty cool.
[07:09.370 --> 07:11.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, another event, someone else posted about this.
[07:11.930 --> 07:17.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: For the third year in a row, the folks from North Carolina 2600 will be putting on CarolinaCon.
[07:17.470 --> 07:21.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: It will take place on April 20th and 21st in Chapel Hill, North Carolina.
[07:21.870 --> 07:24.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Their website, carolinacon.org.
[07:25.330 --> 07:26.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: Lots of places to go to.
[07:26.630 --> 07:27.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's cool.
[07:28.090 --> 07:32.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, there's a place where you can share information and learn all sorts of things.
[07:32.370 --> 07:43.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: But one of the really important sections of this forum site is the one where we hope to share ideas about how to save the hotel.
[07:45.270 --> 07:54.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Basically, plans were announced about a week and a half ago to demolish the hotel and replace it with a big, shiny new 2.5 million square foot office tower with five trading floors.
[07:54.850 --> 08:04.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: And while I question the need for such a thing right now, I think the real reason is so that the executives don't have to ride the subway down to Wall Street and see the likes of us down here.
[08:05.850 --> 08:07.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: The hotel is something that's been around since 1919.
[08:08.710 --> 08:15.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Always crowded, always full, and always full of interesting people like hackers and various other folks running conventions.
[08:15.230 --> 08:16.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, we hope to see it still around.
[08:16.750 --> 08:19.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: They tell us it's probably going to be there for 2008 at the very least.
[08:19.950 --> 08:22.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: But we'd like it to be there a lot longer.
[08:22.270 --> 08:30.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, on talk.hope.net, you can share ideas, get information, and maybe figure out a way that we can stop this thing.
[08:30.730 --> 08:31.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, pretty cool.
[08:32.870 --> 08:35.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Pretty cool, as I can see by the stunned looks of people around me.
[08:37.010 --> 08:37.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[08:38.170 --> 08:39.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Other news.
[08:39.090 --> 08:40.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Other news going on.
[08:40.970 --> 08:46.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Finally, finally, finally, this is happening after many years of delay.
[08:46.230 --> 08:53.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Today, the MTA, Metropolitan Transportation Authority, has started to install new high-tech information screens on the L-Line.
[08:53.870 --> 08:59.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is sort of similar to the new high-tech information screens that have been on the London Underground for about 50 years now.
[09:00.110 --> 09:07.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: The digital system not only shows riders when the next two trains are going to arrive, but also tells them with a state-of-the-art public address system.
[09:08.030 --> 09:12.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what's state-of-the-art about making an audio announcement, but apparently they figured that out, too.
[09:12.810 --> 09:16.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: MTA officials say the new audio system means no more garbled messages.
[09:17.390 --> 09:18.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: We'll see about that.
[09:18.490 --> 09:18.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: What a shame.
[09:19.250 --> 09:20.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right now, the MTA is...
[09:20.670 --> 09:22.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: They can still make the garbled messages.
[09:22.250 --> 09:22.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: They still have the old system.
[09:23.350 --> 09:26.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: The MTA is just testing the system, so the information they put up there is wrong.
[09:27.570 --> 09:29.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: They have fake trains.
[09:29.230 --> 09:29.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's really kind of funny.
[09:30.510 --> 09:34.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: If everything goes well, they say the system will be fully operational within the next few weeks.
[09:34.890 --> 09:39.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: And after that, get this, it will start to expand to the numbered lines.
[09:39.570 --> 09:41.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: In other words, the old IRT.
[09:41.610 --> 09:49.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: And according to another article I read on this, they seem to be saying that it's going to spread to all of the numbered lines by the end of 2007.
[09:49.590 --> 09:50.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: How is that possible?
[09:50.730 --> 09:55.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: They were shutting down the L train every single weekend for years to install this.
[09:55.490 --> 09:56.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: How are they going to suddenly...
[09:56.570 --> 09:56.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is that why it was shut down?
[09:56.770 --> 09:56.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: No.
[09:57.330 --> 09:58.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's not why?
[09:58.010 --> 10:02.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, they were installing the no-person signal system.
[10:02.650 --> 10:03.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's why?
[10:03.490 --> 10:08.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they've been inconveniencing people now for many, many weeks so that they can fire somebody.
[10:08.510 --> 10:17.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the idea was that the L train would become automated and you needed a separate signal and control system as opposed to just a signal system.
[10:17.410 --> 10:21.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because obviously, if you're signaling and there's no one there to interpret the signal, you have a problem.
[10:21.770 --> 10:23.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: So it had to be a control system as one.
[10:23.970 --> 10:24.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: So that's what they were installing.
[10:24.810 --> 10:26.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: I thought it was a service improvement.
[10:26.290 --> 10:30.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Instead, they're doing this, they're inconveniencing everybody just to save themselves money and have less employees.
[10:30.930 --> 10:36.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: And even more so, there's going to be plenty of legal action that will essentially prevent them from doing that.
[10:36.450 --> 10:39.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: So will they have to shut it down again to uninstall all this stuff that they...
[10:39.250 --> 10:40.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, you just ignore it.
[10:40.490 --> 10:41.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: It gives the signal.
[10:41.210 --> 10:45.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: But like I said, if there's no one there to look at it, you have to have a control system in place as well.
[10:45.790 --> 10:49.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's called CBTA or something like that, the new system.
[10:50.030 --> 10:51.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've heard mention of it.
[10:51.750 --> 10:52.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: Something like that.
[10:52.910 --> 10:54.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: And okay, well, that's good news then.
[10:54.990 --> 10:57.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: That means maybe those signs will show up in other places.
[10:57.210 --> 11:02.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because believe me, they'll be very popular when you can look at a sign and say, yeah, the express train will be here in four minutes.
[11:02.430 --> 11:04.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the other train, the local train will be here in six minutes.
[11:04.790 --> 11:05.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: You'll be able to make a decision then.
[11:06.890 --> 11:10.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just like in Europe, it's been doing for, what, decades?
[11:11.150 --> 11:11.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, decades.
[11:11.830 --> 11:12.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Decades.
[11:12.250 --> 11:12.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Definitely.
[11:12.910 --> 11:14.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, we have to make sure.
[11:14.210 --> 11:16.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have to be sure that it works before we actually do it ourselves.
[11:17.150 --> 11:18.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was in Washington, D.C.
[11:18.630 --> 11:22.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: this weekend, which is not, in other words, in other ways, a very advanced city.
[11:22.810 --> 11:24.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, they have this thing.
[11:25.070 --> 11:27.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I do have to say, it didn't make my life that much better.
[11:27.870 --> 11:29.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, they don't have as many trains down there either.
[11:29.930 --> 11:30.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's very simple.
[11:30.910 --> 11:31.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a simple system.
[11:32.010 --> 11:33.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's either a train or there isn't.
[11:33.230 --> 11:34.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's not an express.
[11:34.570 --> 11:35.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's not a two.
[11:35.370 --> 11:35.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's not a three.
[11:36.410 --> 11:38.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's one line per track, right?
[11:38.390 --> 11:41.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: But the L train's just as simple as anything they have in Washington.
[11:41.770 --> 11:41.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[11:42.010 --> 11:43.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's not very exciting on the L line either.
[11:44.010 --> 11:46.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: But it will be exciting on the Lexington Avenue line.
[11:46.250 --> 11:46.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Mark my words.
[11:47.050 --> 11:47.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, well.
[11:48.270 --> 11:48.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: They've been marked.
[11:49.190 --> 11:49.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[11:49.430 --> 11:49.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[11:49.650 --> 11:52.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, here's another invention for the Times.
[11:52.530 --> 12:04.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Congressman Anthony Weiner has called on transit officials to install new garbage cans that have been approved by the Department of Homeland Security.
[12:04.850 --> 12:06.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: He wants to install those in the subway.
[12:06.210 --> 12:10.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, basically, these are bomb-proof receptacles.
[12:11.270 --> 12:20.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they've invited anybody to test them out to make sure they are, in fact, impervious to various explosives.
[12:21.390 --> 12:29.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Apparently, how it works, they're intended to absorb the blast of a bomb, potentially saving the lives of people nearby.
[12:30.670 --> 12:33.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not really exactly sure how they do this.
[12:33.910 --> 12:38.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, they... I think they send the bomb material up instead of out.
[12:39.070 --> 12:42.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: Explosives chemistry was the thing I loved back in college.
[12:42.910 --> 12:47.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: And a bomb-proof thing... A bomb-proof garbage receptacle is not really bomb-proof.
[12:47.730 --> 12:55.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: What it is is it directs... As you say, it directs the force of the bomb upwards, generally, towards the ceiling.
[12:55.690 --> 12:59.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: And rather than out using the garbage can as shrapnel.
[12:59.710 --> 13:01.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, it's relatively easy to build.
[13:01.770 --> 13:04.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can do it fairly well, pretty easily.
[13:05.070 --> 13:09.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, of course, if you're leaning over the garbage can as the bomb goes off, you have a problem.
[13:09.590 --> 13:10.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
[13:10.410 --> 13:13.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: And another more interesting problem is that subways are open-cut.
[13:13.650 --> 13:21.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: And in some cases, there are actually power lines and other things above the tracks and above where the garbage cans could be.
[13:21.710 --> 13:26.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, you have to place these carefully so you don't cut through things up above.
[13:26.610 --> 13:26.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[13:27.710 --> 13:28.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting.
[13:28.070 --> 13:28.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting.
[13:29.190 --> 13:31.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Can't the bombers just not put their bombs in the garbage?
[13:32.030 --> 13:33.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's the other thing.
[13:33.310 --> 13:37.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, you're saying... you're suggesting that bombers place the bombs maybe on the subway platform.
[13:37.810 --> 13:38.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or wear them.
[13:38.590 --> 13:38.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: Anywhere.
[13:39.030 --> 13:39.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Or wear them.
[13:40.370 --> 13:41.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: That would be original.
[13:41.530 --> 13:41.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[13:42.270 --> 13:42.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[13:42.770 --> 13:43.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: They could put them on the track.
[13:44.130 --> 13:46.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: Then, since the people can't go on the track, they won't be able to get them out.
[13:47.410 --> 13:50.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, bombers are not restricted to trash cans.
[13:50.650 --> 13:50.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: No.
[13:50.770 --> 13:56.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, maybe this is a whole big waste of time taking all the trash cans away and replacing them with these big expensive things that are...
[13:56.230 --> 13:56.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, no, no.
[13:56.990 --> 14:04.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: But the point is you can start loading up your trash can with various bombs that are all timed to go off together.
[14:04.170 --> 14:06.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Why does this show always turn into tips for terrorists?
[14:06.550 --> 14:08.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: It seems we always go down that road.
[14:08.430 --> 14:14.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: What I noticed about some of the garbage cans now in the Hoboken Path Station at Jersey is they're just kind of the frame.
[14:14.430 --> 14:19.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's sort of like the opposite of what you're describing here where you can actually see the bag and it's a transparent bag.
[14:19.410 --> 14:23.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, potentially, you could see the explosive before it goes off.
[14:24.350 --> 14:24.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: Amazing.
[14:24.770 --> 14:26.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Which is just as silly as any of the other solutions.
[14:26.850 --> 14:28.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: Unless they throw it out in a brown paper bag.
[14:29.050 --> 14:29.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[14:29.630 --> 14:29.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[14:30.010 --> 14:38.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, speaking of crazy things going on, I think we all heard about the story of a poor guy out in California being set on fire by his cell phone.
[14:38.490 --> 14:39.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
[14:39.030 --> 14:45.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: A cell phone apparently ignited in a man's pocket and started a fire that burned his hotel room and caused severe burns over half his body.
[14:45.950 --> 14:46.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: You think this is funny?
[14:46.890 --> 14:50.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: You think it's funny to have a cell phone light up in your pocket and burn you?
[14:52.030 --> 14:52.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, unbelievable.
[14:53.670 --> 14:59.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: The 59-year-old man was in stable condition Monday with second and third degree burns to his upper body, back, right arm, and right leg.
[15:00.490 --> 15:09.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Firefighters arrived at the residential hotel Saturday night to find him lying on the bathroom floor after a malfunctioning cell phone in his pants pocket set fire to his nylon and polyester clothes.
[15:09.930 --> 15:11.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: The flames then...
[15:11.130 --> 15:13.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: I fail to see the humor in this.
[15:13.050 --> 15:16.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: The flames spread to a plastic chair, setting off a sprinkler.
[15:16.810 --> 15:18.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: The sprinkler held the fire in check.
[15:18.910 --> 15:20.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: So the sprinkler came to the rescue.
[15:20.670 --> 15:21.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, get this.
[15:21.450 --> 15:22.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is the thing that really annoys me.
[15:23.690 --> 15:24.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Authorities...
[15:24.130 --> 15:24.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Authorities...
[15:24.930 --> 15:26.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because this is so absurd and silly.
[15:26.670 --> 15:29.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Authorities declined to name the phone's manufacturer and model.
[15:30.430 --> 15:30.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Why?
[15:31.030 --> 15:33.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is it a cop they're trying to protect or something?
[15:33.130 --> 15:34.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a phone, for God's sake.
[15:34.590 --> 15:37.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Shouldn't we know what phone did this?
[15:37.690 --> 15:38.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: What phone is responsible?
[15:39.110 --> 15:39.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, Bernie.
[15:39.930 --> 15:43.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not necessarily the phone or the phone manufacturer's fault.
[15:43.510 --> 15:49.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: If this person was using a battery that was made by a third-party company that could have been defective.
[15:49.290 --> 15:49.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's true.
[15:49.890 --> 15:52.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: If the battery itself, it's exploding.
[15:52.270 --> 15:53.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Name the battery, too.
[15:53.350 --> 15:54.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Then they'll have their day in court.
[15:54.410 --> 15:55.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: They can defend themselves.
[15:55.490 --> 16:03.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Typically, these lithium-ion batteries can either be made by the manufacturer of the phone, or if you want to buy an extra battery, say yours goes dead.
[16:04.430 --> 16:16.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: But you should be careful that you're trying one of quality, because these lithium-ion batteries can be pretty dangerous if they're not manufactured properly, and the chemicals can leak into the other cell and cause it to overheat and then explode.
[16:16.690 --> 16:18.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that could very well be what happened here.
[16:18.910 --> 16:22.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: That has happened in some of these other cases where they've been exploding cell phones.
[16:22.270 --> 16:24.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's inferior quality batteries.
[16:24.230 --> 16:32.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, it could be a genuine battery from the manufacturer that could have failed, but the cheaper the battery, the more likely it may be an inferior product.
[16:32.290 --> 16:33.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: So just keep that in mind.
[16:34.010 --> 16:34.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[16:34.770 --> 16:38.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: And something else that's going on this week, rather interesting story.
[16:38.170 --> 16:52.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Verizon has agreed to spin off its operation in three New England states and merge them with Fairpoint Communications as the phone giant continues to sell assets to lower its debt as it focuses on the costly fiber upgrade of its network.
[16:52.410 --> 16:54.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Of course, if it gets rid of a lot of its network, it won't have to upgrade it.
[16:56.530 --> 17:07.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, this is interesting because what this means is that the phone company in New England, which is Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine, will no longer be Verizon.
[17:08.090 --> 17:08.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: It'll be something else.
[17:08.830 --> 17:10.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is this something we should be happy about?
[17:11.030 --> 17:11.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: What do you think, Mike?
[17:11.950 --> 17:12.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't really know.
[17:13.110 --> 17:15.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Of course, Connecticut had SNET for a while.
[17:15.490 --> 17:17.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: Southern New England telephone, yeah.
[17:17.110 --> 17:17.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe they still have.
[17:17.950 --> 17:18.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[17:18.750 --> 17:20.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: That was an independent company.
[17:20.190 --> 17:24.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that got swallowed up by when GTE merged with...
[17:24.090 --> 17:25.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Who'd they merge with?
[17:25.910 --> 17:26.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: Verizon.
[17:26.750 --> 17:27.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[17:27.150 --> 17:28.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it became Verizon.
[17:28.370 --> 17:29.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it all became Verizon.
[17:29.250 --> 17:30.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, GTE and Bell Atlantic became Verizon.
[17:31.310 --> 17:31.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[17:31.810 --> 17:33.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: So it all became Verizon.
[17:33.490 --> 17:39.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, I mean, we're always complaining about how everything's being consolidated, how AT&T is now back.
[17:39.690 --> 17:42.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: Have you seen Cole Burr's explanation of that?
[17:42.470 --> 17:42.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Explain.
[17:42.810 --> 17:49.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: He had a great segment on his show, you know, the Comedy Central show, where he explained the mergers and had a great diagram.
[17:49.610 --> 17:50.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's on YouTube.
[17:50.150 --> 17:50.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: You should check it out.
[17:51.010 --> 17:51.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, tell us about it.
[17:51.530 --> 17:53.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I can't explain it.
[17:53.150 --> 17:53.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: You've got to really watch it.
[17:53.630 --> 17:55.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, then don't bring it up if you can't explain it.
[17:55.810 --> 17:57.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: There are people here who don't have net access.
[17:57.550 --> 18:00.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, it's similar to the explanation that we gave, except, you know, very comical.
[18:01.210 --> 18:02.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, check it out.
[18:03.030 --> 18:04.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, so AT&T.
[18:04.770 --> 18:10.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: AT&T is basically back after...
[18:11.310 --> 18:12.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Who did they take over recently?
[18:12.310 --> 18:13.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Interestingly, they took over...
[18:13.310 --> 18:13.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: Singular.
[18:14.110 --> 18:16.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, they always owned Singular.
[18:16.390 --> 18:17.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, Singular sort of owned them.
[18:18.290 --> 18:18.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's very...
[18:18.830 --> 18:20.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, SBC...
[18:20.010 --> 18:20.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: SBC, that was it.
[18:20.970 --> 18:23.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: Bought AT&T and then took AT&T's name.
[18:23.390 --> 18:25.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: And now AT&T is going to take Singular's name.
[18:25.850 --> 18:29.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's not going to be any more Singular, which is what I thought was going to happen to start with.
[18:29.310 --> 18:32.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: When they merged, people knew AT&T's name more than they knew Singular's name.
[18:32.970 --> 18:33.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's very confusing.
[18:34.110 --> 18:34.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: It is.
[18:34.550 --> 18:37.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: But apparently, AT&T is going to be this big, massive company now.
[18:37.550 --> 18:41.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: So here we have a situation where Verizon is becoming smaller.
[18:41.290 --> 18:44.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: And another company is raising its head on the horizon.
[18:45.050 --> 18:45.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[18:45.850 --> 18:48.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: I hear there's opposition to this, but I have to ask myself, why?
[18:48.730 --> 18:49.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Why is there opposition to this?
[18:50.530 --> 18:51.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bernie, any ideas?
[18:52.090 --> 18:56.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I know some Verizon employees are against this.
[18:56.270 --> 19:00.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you go to stop-the-sale.org.
[19:00.290 --> 19:02.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: So stop-the-sale.org is separated by hyphens.
[19:03.370 --> 19:06.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can read about why Verizon employees are against this.
[19:06.590 --> 19:14.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's their union and it's a communications worker of the Workers of America that are against this for reasons that may or may not have anything to do with customer service.
[19:14.290 --> 19:18.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it's worth reading their viewpoint anyway because there's some interesting information there.
[19:18.890 --> 19:19.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[19:19.890 --> 19:22.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yet another development in the exciting world of telecommunications.
[19:22.790 --> 19:25.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: And here's something that I found that is rather weird.
[19:26.450 --> 19:29.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: We were talking about voicemail a lot over the last few weeks.
[19:29.930 --> 19:33.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I was looking into Sprint PCS voicemail.
[19:33.150 --> 19:34.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bernie, let me ask you a question because you have Sprint.
[19:35.090 --> 19:41.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: And somebody told me that with Sprint voicemail, you're able to hold on to your voicemail messages indefinitely.
[19:41.450 --> 19:41.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is that true?
[19:42.570 --> 19:46.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, not unless you resave them.
[19:46.250 --> 19:50.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: And 30 days is the default amount of time they will be saved.
[19:50.430 --> 19:56.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you ignore them more than 30 days, they will go into the big bucket, which you cannot retrieve them from.
[19:56.970 --> 20:01.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: But before 30 days is up, you can resave them.
[20:02.130 --> 20:05.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have to go through this convoluted process on your phone.
[20:05.270 --> 20:06.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: You hit a few buttons.
[20:06.290 --> 20:08.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: But you can save it again.
[20:08.890 --> 20:11.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: But you have to keep doing that every 30 days if you want to keep it.
[20:11.490 --> 20:15.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: And unlike the e-mail system, which will just save them indefinitely.
[20:16.530 --> 20:16.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[20:16.870 --> 20:18.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Somebody told me they were able to save them indefinitely.
[20:18.650 --> 20:21.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: So maybe there are different features for different people.
[20:21.430 --> 20:21.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's possible.
[20:22.750 --> 20:23.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, gee.
[20:23.470 --> 20:23.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[20:23.870 --> 20:25.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: It wouldn't be the first time.
[20:25.190 --> 20:26.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: But this is kind of surprising what I found.
[20:26.930 --> 20:32.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Do you know that Sprint PCS voicemail is a product that can be found on Amazon?
[20:33.130 --> 20:33.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's true.
[20:33.910 --> 20:40.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: So product description, this feature lets you receive voice and numeric messages when you are unavailable to receive calls.
[20:40.550 --> 20:43.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Voicemail is included with all plans, blah, blah, blah.
[20:43.750 --> 20:47.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Sprint PCS voicemail answers your calls and takes messages when you're not available.
[20:47.370 --> 20:49.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Voicemail allows you to retrieve your messages quickly and easily.
[20:50.190 --> 20:52.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: Gift wrapping is not available for this item.
[20:52.630 --> 20:55.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: This item can only be shipped within the United States.
[20:56.890 --> 20:59.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: And there's one customer review based on this.
[21:00.590 --> 21:01.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: I swear it.
[21:01.530 --> 21:02.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Here it is.
[21:02.110 --> 21:03.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: What does the customer review say?
[21:03.150 --> 21:04.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I don't know if I printed that out.
[21:04.890 --> 21:06.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: But you can't buy it.
[21:06.670 --> 21:07.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's no button to buy it.
[21:08.070 --> 21:09.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's there on Amazon.
[21:09.490 --> 21:10.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know why it's there.
[21:10.930 --> 21:11.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Phil, do you have an idea, Phil?
[21:11.890 --> 21:14.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, but did you see if there's any used versions?
[21:14.630 --> 21:17.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because usually with Amazon, you can always get used versions of things.
[21:17.550 --> 21:18.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: That might be good.
[21:18.810 --> 21:19.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: That might be good to have.
[21:19.430 --> 21:19.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: That might be better.
[21:20.050 --> 21:21.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can listen to some interesting messages.
[21:22.310 --> 21:24.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: The review highly recommends the company.
[21:24.370 --> 21:25.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Sprint voicemail works very well.
[21:25.710 --> 21:27.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've never had a problem, et cetera, et cetera.
[21:27.290 --> 21:30.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, except what in God's name is it doing there on Amazon.com?
[21:30.270 --> 21:31.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: It makes no sense to me.
[21:31.030 --> 21:35.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the person who's reviewing it is from Germany, which confuses me even more.
[21:36.250 --> 21:37.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: That should tell you something.
[21:38.350 --> 21:42.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, we have a couple of interesting bits of mail, too.
[21:42.990 --> 21:44.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: This actually has to do with...
[21:44.650 --> 21:50.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: We were talking about MI5's mailing alert system, which started last week.
[21:51.130 --> 21:52.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: MI5 being the spy agency in England.
[21:53.350 --> 21:54.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: They will tell you.
[21:54.270 --> 21:59.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: They will send you email if a terrorist attack is likely, is imminent, or if the condition changes.
[21:59.710 --> 22:04.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, we talked about the alert level in England last week, and we said it was severe.
[22:05.330 --> 22:10.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we incorrectly said that severe was the highest possible threat level.
[22:10.750 --> 22:11.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's one above it.
[22:11.750 --> 22:12.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Anybody care to guess?
[22:12.710 --> 22:12.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Critical.
[22:13.170 --> 22:13.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you already knew.
[22:14.930 --> 22:15.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well...
[22:15.450 --> 22:16.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, good guess, though.
[22:16.510 --> 22:16.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good guess.
[22:17.610 --> 22:18.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: Critical, yeah.
[22:18.510 --> 22:20.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Severe means an attack is highly likely.
[22:20.870 --> 22:23.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Critical means an attack is expected imminently.
[22:24.990 --> 22:29.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, I guess, I guess there's, there should be definitely, though.
[22:29.850 --> 22:31.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: There should be a definite above that.
[22:31.410 --> 22:35.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, it should be, it's sort of like our orange and red, but for colorblind people.
[22:35.750 --> 22:39.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, below severe is substantial, and attack is a strong possibility.
[22:41.030 --> 22:43.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I would just stop there at strong possibility.
[22:43.710 --> 22:45.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, that's enough to get me scared.
[22:45.510 --> 22:55.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: I just have to say that if I were in the United Kingdom, and I was told that the level has changed from severe to substantial, like, I wouldn't know if that was more or less, or what was going on at all.
[22:56.050 --> 22:56.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: How about moderate?
[22:57.070 --> 22:59.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: An attack is possible, but not likely.
[23:00.430 --> 23:01.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: And finally, low.
[23:01.610 --> 23:02.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: An attack is unlikely.
[23:02.650 --> 23:04.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't, we don't have a low, do we?
[23:04.250 --> 23:06.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Green is not really considered unlikely.
[23:06.590 --> 23:10.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's just, be alert still, but everything is okay for now, or something like that.
[23:11.150 --> 23:14.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: What's the difference between possible but unlikely and not likely?
[23:15.230 --> 23:17.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: You just have to get into the heads of the people over there to figure that one out.
[23:18.390 --> 23:24.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: According to Tim, who sent us this list, we have been at severe for several months, at least since October, November of last year.
[23:24.550 --> 23:29.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: The government claimed that an attack was highly likely over the holiday period, but thankfully it never materialized.
[23:29.850 --> 23:38.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: The thing is, do you say thankfully it never materialized because of this, or because it wouldn't have happened anyway, and this is just added paranoia and fear?
[23:39.650 --> 23:40.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's the real question.
[23:40.570 --> 23:41.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's important to be afraid.
[23:41.550 --> 23:42.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Mitch, what was that?
[23:42.610 --> 23:43.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's important to be afraid.
[23:44.070 --> 23:44.270]  [SPEAKER_01]: It is.
[23:44.770 --> 23:47.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you're not feeling afraid, remember to be afraid.
[23:47.990 --> 23:52.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, if the terrorists are doing their job, we'll be at green or low or something when the next thing happens, right?
[23:53.410 --> 23:56.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: I guess, because surprise is the whole key.
[23:57.490 --> 23:58.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[23:58.490 --> 24:00.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, we have more mail on the subject.
[24:02.110 --> 24:03.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Michael writes in, Thanks for the show.
[24:03.670 --> 24:04.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: Always great to listen to.
[24:04.570 --> 24:07.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: You mentioned the email service from the British Intelligence Service in the last show.
[24:08.250 --> 24:10.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Have they ever heard of emails being spoofed?
[24:10.690 --> 24:16.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Of course, no one would ever do this, but what if a terrorist sent out an email suggesting an attack was imminent?
[24:17.170 --> 24:22.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Imagine an email being sent out to all the people registered suggesting London was about to be bombed, mass panic, stampedes.
[24:23.350 --> 24:25.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, hats off to the intelligence service.
[24:25.190 --> 24:27.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: You've given terrorists a new outlet for their hobby.
[24:27.510 --> 24:28.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good way to advertise.
[24:28.830 --> 24:31.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: I would assume that this is happening quite a bit, though.
[24:31.290 --> 24:32.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, people send out prank emails all the time.
[24:33.610 --> 24:35.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but not from MI5.
[24:35.650 --> 24:40.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: And not when you're supposedly on some kind of mailing list that's supposed to tell you when something is happening.
[24:40.230 --> 24:40.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[24:41.690 --> 24:47.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Michael, by the way, is a Brit living in Copenhagen, and he says to check out crack.dk.
[24:47.550 --> 24:49.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's spelled K-R-A-K dot D-K.
[24:49.910 --> 24:52.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a searchable database of Danish citizens.
[24:53.110 --> 24:55.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: You can have yourself removed, but it seems that most don't.
[24:56.290 --> 24:59.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thankfully, I've gotten rid of all my details except for an old phone number.
[24:59.270 --> 24:59.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: But that's...
[24:59.950 --> 25:00.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: How did that happen?
[25:01.210 --> 25:03.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: All Danish citizens getting listed online.
[25:03.650 --> 25:04.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: Crack.dk.
[25:05.350 --> 25:06.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is that a free service?
[25:06.670 --> 25:07.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: I imagine so.
[25:07.510 --> 25:12.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: It sounds similar to a lot of the background, you know, searching services that you find even for U.S.
[25:12.290 --> 25:13.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: citizens or any citizens for that matter.
[25:14.670 --> 25:15.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: Here's another letter.
[25:15.710 --> 25:18.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: This one from Andy from the U.K.
[25:19.730 --> 25:26.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: MI5 security alert finally runs on secure servers, is the name of the news story he sent us, which I believe ran on register.com.
[25:27.170 --> 25:33.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: MI5's terrorist status mailing list has been made a little more secure, even though the service has still not been moved onto a fully secure U.K.
[25:33.890 --> 25:34.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: government-run infrastructure.
[25:34.730 --> 25:42.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: The service launched by MI5 last Tuesday is designed to allow subscribers to receive email notification of changing national security levels by email.
[25:42.590 --> 25:49.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: But an investigation by privacy website SpyBlog showed it was sending web subscription forms to the U.S.
[25:49.170 --> 25:49.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: without encryption.
[25:50.390 --> 25:53.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Initially, data submitted to the list was wide open to snoopers.
[25:53.470 --> 26:03.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: The subscription system has been changed, so it no longer uses the whatcounts.com services in the U.S.A., and so that it uses SSL links to submit data to web servers based in the U.K.
[26:03.510 --> 26:07.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Today, these servers are being run by a private firm called MailTrack and not the U.K.
[26:08.330 --> 26:08.330]  government.
[26:08.730 --> 26:14.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: The mailing list was modified late on Friday from its shambolic early version, according to SpyBlog.
[26:14.990 --> 26:18.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: The email list subscription service no longer seems to send your personal data to the U.S.A.
[26:18.770 --> 26:22.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: in an unencrypted format, but it is still not being hosted entirely on secure U.K.
[26:23.150 --> 26:24.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: government IT infrastructure.
[26:24.530 --> 26:27.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: However, signing up this way no longer gets you an email confirmation immediately.
[26:28.090 --> 26:31.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: You'll now have to wait a few days, according to SpyBlog.
[26:31.230 --> 26:33.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: What information did you have to give them when you registered?
[26:33.510 --> 26:37.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Just an email address and a first and last name of your choice, I guess.
[26:37.710 --> 26:40.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: And all that stuff is sent to you via email, which isn't encrypted anyway.
[26:40.990 --> 26:46.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, I mean, this is a case where it's only as secure as its weakest link, and adding SSL doesn't really help anything.
[26:47.330 --> 26:47.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[26:48.050 --> 26:51.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: What are they doing for three days while they're processing your subscription request?
[26:51.870 --> 26:53.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe doing a background check on you.
[26:53.510 --> 26:54.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: I guess.
[26:54.630 --> 26:55.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's entirely possible.
[26:55.710 --> 27:04.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: We also got a few emails about the hotel situation, including a clarification about the company that owns Hotel Pennsylvania, Vornado, spelled like Tornado, except with a V.
[27:05.130 --> 27:10.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: They are a company, according to Jim here, a company that builds shopping centers and hotels.
[27:10.950 --> 27:15.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're taking over one of the major shopping centers in Paramus on Route 4 right now.
[27:15.930 --> 27:16.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[27:16.310 --> 27:18.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, if you go over there and watch, you'll see them taking it over.
[27:19.250 --> 27:21.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: In fact, this is kind of creepy, actually.
[27:21.390 --> 27:27.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's like watching one of those second-class TV shows where Evil Corporation is there taking things over little by little or turning on the news.
[27:28.390 --> 27:31.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you'll see that Vornado or Vornado...
[27:31.190 --> 27:32.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Does anybody know how to pronounce them?
[27:32.390 --> 27:33.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's Vornado.
[27:33.410 --> 27:33.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Vornado?
[27:33.890 --> 27:34.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[27:34.110 --> 27:36.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because we're probably going to be saying their name a lot in the months ahead.
[27:36.590 --> 27:42.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: But they just took over the Manhattan Mall, which is adjacent to the Hotel Pennsylvania.
[27:42.310 --> 27:43.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: They just took that over.
[27:43.190 --> 27:45.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, who knows what they have plans for there.
[27:45.630 --> 27:48.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's on, I think, 32nd and 6th Avenue?
[27:49.030 --> 27:49.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[27:49.490 --> 27:50.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a big mall area.
[27:51.630 --> 27:53.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: And this is from Gonzo.
[27:53.170 --> 27:53.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hi, gang.
[27:53.510 --> 27:56.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm still bummed about the bad news concerning the Hotel Pennsylvania's coming death.
[27:57.230 --> 28:00.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know the hotel is a bit of a fleabag, but it's our fleabag.
[28:00.590 --> 28:00.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[28:01.450 --> 28:05.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: The last thing we need is yet another punk-ass corporate blight on the land.
[28:06.010 --> 28:10.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, Gonzo has an interesting suggestion here, and I think it might be worthwhile to follow through on this.
[28:10.810 --> 28:19.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm urging everyone within the city's listening area to call John Gambling's radio show on 770 WABC this Friday morning at 10 a.m.
[28:19.190 --> 28:22.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: The mayor comes on once a week and takes calls from listeners.
[28:22.170 --> 28:26.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it would be good for people to speak up and let them know that we want the hotel left alone.
[28:26.190 --> 28:32.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, it's important to point out that the company that owns the hotel, they're the ones that want to build the office building there.
[28:32.770 --> 28:40.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't really know what the city can do anything about it, but it would be good to hear the mayor's viewpoint on it and to hear him say something like, yeah, that would be a shame if that happened.
[28:40.150 --> 28:41.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: It just would be a little bit more ammunition.
[28:41.990 --> 28:42.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe they can do something.
[28:43.090 --> 28:45.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: Can I suggest not referring to it as a fleabag?
[28:45.670 --> 28:53.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, I mean, that's probably not the best way to get it saved, but if it wasn't a fleabag, it would probably be unaffordable for us.
[28:54.570 --> 28:55.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: But no, you can get the fleas out.
[28:55.970 --> 28:57.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's very classy, actually.
[28:57.330 --> 28:58.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: It is classy.
[28:58.230 --> 28:59.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: For the likes of us, it's extremely classy.
[28:59.990 --> 29:01.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, we have work to do here.
[29:01.530 --> 29:04.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have work to do tonight because this is our first fundraiser show.
[29:05.450 --> 29:09.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we have a couple of special guests with us, as previously mentioned.
[29:09.410 --> 29:10.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: First, Mitch, welcome.
[29:10.950 --> 29:13.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're out there in California, inventor of the TV-B-Gone.
[29:13.990 --> 29:17.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: How has your device been progressing over the years?
[29:18.310 --> 29:22.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, people still seem to want to turn TVs off, and I'm here to help them.
[29:24.250 --> 29:29.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Have you expanded maybe to other things, like noisy kids or loud cars, things like that?
[29:29.510 --> 29:34.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there are a lot of requests for such things, but unfortunately, they're not remotely controllable.
[29:34.910 --> 29:35.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Not yet, anyway.
[29:36.810 --> 29:39.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: So tell us about some of the changes that have taken place.
[29:39.950 --> 29:42.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: First of all, okay, this device, basically, it's...
[29:42.610 --> 29:44.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: How big would you say this is?
[29:44.250 --> 29:45.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's about the size of...
[29:45.370 --> 29:49.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's the size of the device that you would be using to remotely control your car.
[29:49.330 --> 29:50.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's about the same size.
[29:50.250 --> 29:50.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, about the...
[29:50.890 --> 29:53.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and it's got a little keychain thing attached to it anyway.
[29:53.590 --> 29:59.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: You press the button, and it cycles through all the possible frequencies of TV sets.
[30:00.090 --> 30:05.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: And eventually, eventually, it comes across the one that tells that particular TV set to turn itself off.
[30:06.490 --> 30:07.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's best state.
[30:08.030 --> 30:09.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it is its best state.
[30:09.450 --> 30:10.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: It saves a lot of power, too.
[30:11.590 --> 30:13.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's a lot of fun in bars.
[30:13.590 --> 30:15.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a lot of fun in department stores with a million...
[30:15.730 --> 30:16.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have a TV set on here.
[30:16.850 --> 30:17.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's not...
[30:17.930 --> 30:19.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's a video monitor.
[30:19.250 --> 30:21.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: I was just going to say, I don't see an infrared...
[30:21.250 --> 30:24.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's a TV set next to it, though, that we already did turn off.
[30:24.330 --> 30:24.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's already off.
[30:25.030 --> 30:28.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and believe not, Kevin, you used a TV-B-Gone to do that, right?
[30:28.150 --> 30:28.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yes, I did.
[30:28.870 --> 30:31.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: You saved yourself from walking all the way to the other side of the room to turn it off.
[30:31.210 --> 30:34.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, we use this for legitimate purposes, as well as illegitimate purposes.
[30:35.170 --> 30:42.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: But is it really so illegitimate to turn off a blaring TV set, like in a restaurant, when you don't want to hear Oprah in the middle of the day?
[30:42.510 --> 30:43.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's totally fair game.
[30:44.150 --> 30:48.810]  [SPEAKER_01]: Unlike the book 1984, it's not illegal to turn TVs off.
[30:49.530 --> 30:54.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, in fact, usually people don't even notice because they tune it out because it's just noise.
[30:54.490 --> 30:56.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: But when they do notice, they're thankful.
[30:56.870 --> 31:00.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: I find that people get so entranced.
[31:00.950 --> 31:05.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: When the TV is on, they just sort of stop what they're doing and stare, and there's this vacant look on their faces.
[31:06.210 --> 31:11.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they're not the kind of people that normally would turn on a TV set and look at the garbage that's there.
[31:12.590 --> 31:16.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: But some people just are affected more by others when they see a TV on.
[31:16.350 --> 31:22.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, for instance, if you're in a checkout line, increasingly they're putting TV sets in checkout lines because you're a captive audience.
[31:22.650 --> 31:28.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: In fact, there's a company called Captive Audience that sells marketing, sells advertising space or something like that.
[31:29.170 --> 31:31.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, yeah, it's for those people.
[31:31.390 --> 31:39.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: I like to think they're the ones that are rather weak, and we need to step in and help them and turn the thing off so they can snap back out of it and get back to life.
[31:39.450 --> 31:41.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm actually one of those people.
[31:41.510 --> 31:43.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's one of the reasons why I invented TV-B-Gone.
[31:43.670 --> 31:48.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: When a TV is on, I can't help but look at it and be way distracted by it.
[31:48.310 --> 31:53.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: And Captive Audience, that's such an insulting name, really.
[31:54.170 --> 32:04.650]  [SPEAKER_01]: I was at a gift show or gift fair in New York City at the Javits Center, and they had these monitors all over the place advertising to everyone everywhere you went.
[32:04.650 --> 32:07.570]  [SPEAKER_01]: You couldn't look anywhere and not see one of these things.
[32:07.750 --> 32:13.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: And when they advertised for themselves, Captive Audience, that's when I knew I had to turn every one of them off.
[32:14.770 --> 32:20.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and we've had some fun, you and I, walking through various retail markets.
[32:20.710 --> 32:22.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: In fact, not Kevin was with us as well.
[32:22.630 --> 32:23.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: What was it?
[32:23.290 --> 32:25.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Circuit City, a Virgin Megastore or something?
[32:25.890 --> 32:26.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: Best Buy.
[32:26.550 --> 32:27.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Best Buy, all of them.
[32:28.130 --> 32:28.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[32:28.510 --> 32:28.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: Movie theaters.
[32:29.230 --> 32:29.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Movie theaters.
[32:30.090 --> 32:32.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I don't know why movie theaters have TV sets.
[32:32.070 --> 32:32.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: That doesn't even make sense.
[32:33.350 --> 32:37.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: But they don't for long if we're in the premises and simply hit the thing.
[32:38.090 --> 32:39.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: You got to be sort of careful not to be seen.
[32:39.890 --> 32:46.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, it's easy not to be caught doing this if you don't hold it out and make it obvious, right?
[32:46.770 --> 32:48.490]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's designed to be stealth.
[32:48.650 --> 32:50.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's why it looks sort of Batman-like.
[32:51.170 --> 32:53.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, it just fits in your pocket.
[32:53.630 --> 32:56.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's very easy to turn off TVs without people noticing.
[32:57.550 --> 33:00.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: The movie theaters owned by Sony are the best.
[33:00.190 --> 33:04.010]  [SPEAKER_01]: And Sony has the most sensitive IR receivers on their TVs.
[33:04.390 --> 33:06.910]  [SPEAKER_01]: So you can turn them off very, very easily.
[33:07.310 --> 33:15.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: And also, if you look online, there's a bunch of people who have posted modifications for their device, such as mounting the IR diode in your hat or something like that.
[33:15.410 --> 33:15.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, wow.
[33:16.230 --> 33:23.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: And also adding an amplifier and using sort of like a spotlight of an array of infrared diodes to, you know, extend the range.
[33:24.390 --> 33:25.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: So they can just walk around.
[33:25.930 --> 33:28.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: They don't have to hold anything because it's pretty much implanted on their skull.
[33:28.870 --> 33:29.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's in their hat, yeah.
[33:29.590 --> 33:30.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wow, that's cool.
[33:30.330 --> 33:32.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: Everywhere you look, the TV turns off.
[33:32.670 --> 33:33.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of fun.
[33:33.850 --> 33:38.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: And then the high-power one really is a great feeling of control and power.
[33:39.630 --> 33:43.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: Once you use one of those, or at least speaking for myself, I've used one of those.
[33:43.930 --> 33:48.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's almost hard to go back to the regular one, as good as that is.
[33:49.770 --> 33:59.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: And in the Chaos Computer Congress that I was at in Berlin a couple weeks ago, I had a workshop and teaching people how to do that.
[33:59.490 --> 34:00.770]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was a lot of fun.
[34:01.330 --> 34:01.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[34:01.950 --> 34:04.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: It opens up a lot of eyes and turns off a lot of TV sets.
[34:04.310 --> 34:08.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, we are offering Mitch's Fabulous Invention, the latest version of it.
[34:08.710 --> 34:14.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: The TV-B-Gone, turn off any TV set in your area, and people will not know who did it.
[34:16.070 --> 34:23.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: By calling 212-209-2950 and pledging $50, you can get one of a limited number of TV-B-Gones that we're offering tonight.
[34:24.050 --> 34:28.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: All callers also who pledge $25 and above will get an Off The Hook t-shirt.
[34:28.850 --> 34:33.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: So if you call and pledge $50, not only will you get the TV-B-Gone, but you'll also get the Off The Hook t-shirt.
[34:34.050 --> 34:36.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: 212-209-2950.
[34:37.130 --> 34:38.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: That is our phone number.
[34:38.350 --> 34:44.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: And again, we have a limited number of these things, so it's best that you call quickly and avoid the rush.
[34:44.090 --> 34:46.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Although the rush, I believe, is starting right now.
[34:46.750 --> 34:49.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think we've all played with this in this room.
[34:49.870 --> 34:51.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of hard not to.
[34:51.310 --> 34:53.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of hard not to be drawn into it.
[34:54.230 --> 34:59.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: Mitch, you must have some interesting stories or adventures that people have gone through using TV-B-Gones.
[35:00.410 --> 35:05.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've been using it longer than anyone since I was the first one to use the prototype.
[35:05.450 --> 35:06.710]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's been a couple years.
[35:07.530 --> 35:19.710]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I really like turning off TVs in places where people don't go to watch television because I don't go to places where people are there to watch television since I don't like television.
[35:20.470 --> 35:22.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: So restaurants are one of the prime targets.
[35:22.730 --> 35:27.350]  [SPEAKER_01]: I was in a restaurant with my family's... or my brother's family.
[35:27.770 --> 35:29.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, they know I have a TV-B-Gone.
[35:30.050 --> 35:34.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't even notice when I turned off the huge screen TV in this otherwise nice restaurant.
[35:35.130 --> 35:37.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: But the waitress did notice.
[35:37.890 --> 35:39.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the odd thing.
[35:39.710 --> 35:42.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: The only people that seem to notice are the people that work at these places.
[35:43.070 --> 35:45.810]  [SPEAKER_01]: And they feel it's their obligation to turn it back on.
[35:45.810 --> 35:46.590]  [SPEAKER_01]: And so she did.
[35:46.850 --> 35:48.890]  [SPEAKER_01]: And then people in the room started noticing.
[35:48.930 --> 35:50.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, I turned it right back off.
[35:51.090 --> 35:54.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: And when she came back, she went to reach to turn it back on again.
[35:54.610 --> 35:57.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: And before she reached it, I turned it on.
[35:57.370 --> 35:57.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, my God.
[35:58.290 --> 36:01.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: Then she, like, jumped back a little bit noticeably.
[36:01.750 --> 36:03.550]  [SPEAKER_01]: And then people in the room start to titter.
[36:03.710 --> 36:07.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: And just as she's, like, about to turn it, I turned it off again.
[36:07.370 --> 36:09.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: So then everyone laughs.
[36:09.490 --> 36:12.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then the next day, you're able to pick up the TV set because it's outside in the trash.
[36:13.370 --> 36:14.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because they assume it's broken.
[36:15.810 --> 36:20.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, someone who I met in Paris said that they went to their favorite pub.
[36:20.970 --> 36:23.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: They got a brand-new TV that really ruined the place.
[36:24.190 --> 36:26.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: And he would turn it off every time he went in.
[36:26.170 --> 36:27.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that actually happened.
[36:27.470 --> 36:30.630]  [SPEAKER_01]: And he asked the guy, what are you doing with this TV?
[36:30.770 --> 36:31.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's broken.
[36:32.430 --> 36:33.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: Will you mind if I take it?
[36:35.490 --> 36:36.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think we might...
[36:36.850 --> 36:42.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if you remember this, but there's a big, new, huge Chase bank building by Astor Place.
[36:43.690 --> 36:45.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we stood up next to the window.
[36:46.130 --> 36:50.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: They had two TV sets telling you that it was the Chase building in case somehow you missed that.
[36:51.070 --> 36:53.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we were able to turn both of those sets off.
[36:53.250 --> 36:54.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we felt pretty good about that.
[36:54.770 --> 36:56.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: A couple of weeks later, I came back.
[36:56.470 --> 37:01.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they had replaced those two TV sets with two big LCD screens that could not be touched in that way.
[37:01.850 --> 37:06.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: But I just wondered, did they think those TV sets were broken and replaced them as a result?
[37:06.110 --> 37:12.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: I actually just went by that bank, and they now have the TVs in a metal frame that cover up the intra-red port.
[37:12.410 --> 37:12.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're smart.
[37:12.990 --> 37:13.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: They must listen to us.
[37:14.010 --> 37:19.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, at the Chaos Computer Congress, there were a lot of TV be-gones to be had there.
[37:20.310 --> 37:26.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a huge store there called Saturn across the street from where the Congress was held.
[37:26.950 --> 37:30.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: And they ended up putting tape over all of their TVs.
[37:31.610 --> 37:31.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[37:32.050 --> 37:34.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I guess that's what you have to do in order to keep this going.
[37:34.790 --> 37:40.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: I used it in a restaurant that had a bar, and the bar had a TV set.
[37:41.110 --> 37:43.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: And somebody was talking to somebody else.
[37:43.090 --> 37:44.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: They were telling a really good story.
[37:44.050 --> 37:45.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: But then someone said, hey, look at that.
[37:45.770 --> 37:49.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Like somebody had thrown a ball into a basket or something, and everybody was, wow.
[37:50.370 --> 37:57.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: So the guy just turns to the TV set and doesn't turn his head back, like move it an inch in the middle of his story.
[37:58.450 --> 37:59.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: And he's frozen there.
[38:00.210 --> 38:03.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I just surreptitiously hit the button.
[38:03.610 --> 38:05.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then a couple of seconds later, the thing goes out.
[38:05.350 --> 38:07.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: And he keeps staring for about two more seconds.
[38:07.230 --> 38:12.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then he turns to the right and continues his story without even like any kind of other reaction.
[38:12.490 --> 38:14.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: And no one else seemed to care that the TV set was now off.
[38:14.810 --> 38:17.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: It was like they were freed from their trance.
[38:17.550 --> 38:18.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: It was a really good feeling.
[38:18.850 --> 38:20.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: I felt like I did good that day.
[38:20.570 --> 38:23.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: You gave everyone several minutes of their life back.
[38:23.130 --> 38:27.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the thing is, I was there for about an hour, and nobody even tried to turn the TV set back on.
[38:27.330 --> 38:30.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: And there were a couple of instances, too, where they can't find the remote, so they can't turn it back on.
[38:31.050 --> 38:32.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: But this one, I think they just didn't care.
[38:33.270 --> 38:35.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, we had a whole flurry of calls.
[38:35.370 --> 38:37.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: We had over 10 calls at once there.
[38:37.470 --> 38:39.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I know a few of them probably didn't get answered.
[38:39.770 --> 38:41.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're down to about five now.
[38:41.430 --> 38:43.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: 212-209-2950.
[38:43.170 --> 38:46.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: Again, we're offering the TV-B-Gone for all pledges of $50.
[38:47.950 --> 38:50.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the 2,600 t-shirts.
[38:50.230 --> 38:52.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, I'm sorry, the Off The Hook t-shirts for $25.
[38:53.490 --> 38:59.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: And if you pledge for a TV-B-Gone, you'll also get an Off The Hook t-shirt because everything 25 and above will get you that.
[38:59.590 --> 39:03.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, in addition, we have with us Phil from Make Magazine.
[39:03.630 --> 39:06.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: And Phil, Make Magazine is a really cool publication.
[39:06.650 --> 39:07.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: We try.
[39:07.890 --> 39:08.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: You succeed.
[39:08.670 --> 39:09.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: You really do.
[39:09.570 --> 39:11.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Tell us something about its history, how long it's been around for.
[39:12.710 --> 39:15.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Roughly two years now, almost to the date.
[39:15.430 --> 39:17.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's working out pretty well.
[39:17.450 --> 39:21.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: Turns out there's a lot of people who want to learn about building things and doing electronics.
[39:21.530 --> 39:28.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: And all the hobbies and all the things you normally associate with the old popular science magazines from the 1950s and 1960s.
[39:28.850 --> 39:31.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: And people who have a do-it-yourself mentality.
[39:32.290 --> 39:33.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's coming back.
[39:33.390 --> 39:36.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: And we can't get these out quick enough.
[39:36.110 --> 39:43.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: And people are reacquiring skills like soldering or they're learning to do projects with their kids or whatever.
[39:43.550 --> 39:46.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: And we're quarterly, you know, somewhere to the 2600.
[39:46.670 --> 39:48.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, yeah, it's worked out.
[39:48.510 --> 39:49.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's worked out pretty well.
[39:49.250 --> 39:54.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: I hear all kinds of rave reviews about Makehamfest and various other places.
[39:54.570 --> 39:56.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know, Bernie, you're a fan of this magazine, aren't you?
[39:57.250 --> 39:57.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Absolutely.
[39:57.910 --> 40:02.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: It just brings back the creative spirit that, like Phil mentioned, popular mechanics.
[40:03.170 --> 40:05.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Popular Electronics was a good magazine that's now defunct for many years.
[40:06.050 --> 40:07.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: And this is sort of a good combination of both.
[40:07.770 --> 40:12.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: It gets into both the electronic stuff and mechanical stuff.
[40:12.510 --> 40:14.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not just building circuit boards.
[40:14.190 --> 40:18.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, some of the projects, Phil, didn't necessarily even have a lot of electronics involved, right?
[40:18.750 --> 40:19.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.
[40:19.310 --> 40:20.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you can build a cigar box guitar.
[40:21.290 --> 40:22.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's in our volume four.
[40:22.670 --> 40:31.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: So if you just want to take old junk and turn it into something, things like fixing your car, we show you how to make a spud gun if you want to make a potato cannon.
[40:32.090 --> 40:33.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, you know, didn't we...
[40:33.450 --> 40:33.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: That was fun.
[40:33.890 --> 40:35.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bernie, are we allowed to talk about this, Bernie?
[40:36.430 --> 40:37.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: What happened?
[40:37.490 --> 40:38.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: The limitations had expired.
[40:39.250 --> 40:39.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, okay.
[40:39.870 --> 40:40.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: We were in a state.
[40:44.230 --> 40:45.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: I was just a driver.
[40:45.730 --> 40:46.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think I did anything.
[40:48.170 --> 40:49.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, yeah, we...
[40:49.930 --> 40:53.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: I had come into possession of one of these potato cannons or spud guns.
[40:54.110 --> 40:55.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: This thing is about the size of a bazooka.
[40:55.970 --> 40:56.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[40:56.410 --> 40:59.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how we're able to walk around with that, but I guess Ohio, you can do that.
[41:00.430 --> 41:03.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: I guess it's normal in Ohio to be walking around with a bazooka.
[41:03.870 --> 41:11.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: But anyway, I believe there was a police station or something on the other side of the field from the hotel where we were staying.
[41:11.830 --> 41:17.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: And a potato was launched into the air several hundred feet in that direction of the police station.
[41:17.850 --> 41:19.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
[41:19.010 --> 41:20.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: We fired at a police station, though?
[41:20.690 --> 41:21.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, not at it.
[41:22.430 --> 41:25.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: I thought we fired into a vacant field or a lake or something.
[41:25.430 --> 41:27.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it was across the field.
[41:27.770 --> 41:28.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: But there was...
[41:28.170 --> 41:31.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then later, there was the opposing day of the Dayton Hamvention.
[41:32.010 --> 41:40.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: From the middle of the giant parking lot area where the flea market goes on, I fired a large spud in the direction of the lake that was in the golf course.
[41:40.570 --> 41:42.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was maybe several hundred feet away.
[41:43.130 --> 41:44.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I pointed at the...
[41:44.490 --> 41:47.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was with Jeff Flash, as a matter of fact.
[41:47.270 --> 41:48.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: I pointed at the pond.
[41:48.390 --> 41:49.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: I said, it's going right there.
[41:49.470 --> 41:50.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I shot this thing up.
[41:50.910 --> 41:53.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I couldn't have done that again if I tried.
[41:53.570 --> 41:57.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it landed right in the center of this pond, hundreds and hundreds of feet away.
[41:57.010 --> 42:00.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you can read about how to make one of these things in Make Magazine.
[42:00.550 --> 42:02.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Remember what issue that was, Phil?
[42:02.270 --> 42:02.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[42:02.690 --> 42:03.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's volume three.
[42:04.130 --> 42:05.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was a great article.
[42:05.730 --> 42:13.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: And there's just so many fun things you can build with regular household materials that will just amuse you and your friends to no end.
[42:13.310 --> 42:14.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I highly recommend Make Magazine.
[42:14.850 --> 42:18.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think we can get Make Magazine as a premium for pledging tonight, can't we?
[42:18.430 --> 42:18.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[42:18.790 --> 42:22.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have a couple of premium choices involving Make Magazine.
[42:23.090 --> 42:26.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let me tell you about the really big one first.
[42:27.810 --> 42:30.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we only have four of these.
[42:30.250 --> 42:34.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: So if you want to pledge for them, you've got to call right away.
[42:34.970 --> 42:37.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: An entire Make Magazine box set.
[42:37.930 --> 42:39.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, Phil, what's included in that?
[42:39.290 --> 42:41.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: In the box set, you get volumes one through four.
[42:41.850 --> 42:44.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it comes in a collector's box.
[42:44.910 --> 42:45.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a pretty big box.
[42:45.770 --> 42:46.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a pretty big box.
[42:47.730 --> 42:49.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's the first year of Make.
[42:49.810 --> 42:51.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: So that's, you know, it's girthy.
[42:51.830 --> 42:53.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's about the size of a, you know, phone book.
[42:53.830 --> 42:58.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's maybe, oh, you know, each issue has almost 200 pages.
[42:58.650 --> 42:59.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[42:59.250 --> 43:00.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: Not really any ads.
[43:00.270 --> 43:01.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's a few.
[43:01.570 --> 43:04.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then color photographs, all how-tos.
[43:04.490 --> 43:07.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: And these are the type of things you'll save for years and years and years.
[43:07.790 --> 43:11.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: These are, we hope they stand the test of time.
[43:11.470 --> 43:17.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: And in addition to that, this premium package includes an MP3 player kit.
[43:17.570 --> 43:18.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: Do you want to tell us something about that?
[43:18.490 --> 43:18.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[43:18.810 --> 43:19.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is a big deal.
[43:19.610 --> 43:22.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: So there's millions and millions of iPods out there.
[43:22.390 --> 43:23.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, we all have one, probably.
[43:23.950 --> 43:25.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's a standard issue.
[43:25.410 --> 43:28.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: But a lot of people are starting to think about their electronics.
[43:28.290 --> 43:29.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: And they want to learn how they work.
[43:30.010 --> 43:35.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: And like a lot of our grandparents, they built their own FM radios or AM radios.
[43:35.790 --> 43:38.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's how you got, you know, you started learning things.
[43:38.950 --> 43:40.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then these people went on to be engineers.
[43:40.370 --> 43:41.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: And now we have all the wonderful things that we have now.
[43:42.270 --> 43:47.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: But we thought it'd be neat to do something like that with an MP3 player.
[43:47.610 --> 43:55.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: So if you're ever, if you want to learn how to build an MP3 player, just like you can be just like Apple, sort of, and build your own MP3 player.
[43:55.270 --> 43:57.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is an open-source hardware and software project.
[43:57.770 --> 44:02.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: So you get all the parts that you need, the printed circuit board called a PCB.
[44:02.310 --> 44:04.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: And we have detailed step-by-step instructions.
[44:04.630 --> 44:05.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: And lots of people buy these.
[44:05.970 --> 44:09.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: And they put them in all sorts of enclosures from a laser tag gun.
[44:10.310 --> 44:13.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: When you pull the trigger, it just skips to the next song.
[44:13.470 --> 44:16.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: People put it inside of a digital camera case or an old-fashioned case.
[44:16.810 --> 44:19.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: So you can pretty much do anything you want with it.
[44:19.170 --> 44:23.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you learn about all the specific things that go into how an MP3 player works.
[44:23.710 --> 44:25.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: And when you're done, you have a music player.
[44:25.570 --> 44:32.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: So all of that, the Make Magazine box set and the MP3 open-source player kit for a pledge of $250.
[44:32.890 --> 44:34.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: You'll get that entire package.
[44:34.830 --> 44:39.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I got to say, the actual value of these items is pretty darn close to that.
[44:40.250 --> 44:43.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: And don't forget, you're contributing to the radio station.
[44:43.050 --> 44:45.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's the real reason for your phone call.
[44:45.270 --> 44:48.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: So that is not a bad deal right there.
[44:48.610 --> 44:50.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: 212-209-2950.
[44:50.450 --> 44:56.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you have $250 that you want to spend on something decent and good and fun, that will last a very long time.
[44:56.850 --> 45:00.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: What better way to do that and support your favorite community radio station?
[45:00.290 --> 45:01.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: 212-209-2950.
[45:02.010 --> 45:03.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: But like I said, we only have four of those.
[45:04.070 --> 45:06.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: So once they're gone, they're gone and they're not coming back.
[45:06.670 --> 45:10.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I'm just looking here at this MP3 player, which I guess has already been put together.
[45:10.990 --> 45:14.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it looks like something you could use maybe to take over the world.
[45:15.010 --> 45:18.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: It says, make open-source flower power.
[45:18.190 --> 45:23.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: And there's all kinds of little doodads in it, chips and whatnot.
[45:23.430 --> 45:27.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I bet it comes with an explanation of what they actually all are.
[45:27.930 --> 45:30.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, this is my contraption version.
[45:30.290 --> 45:33.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: And what I did was I used a laser cutter to cut out acrylic.
[45:34.070 --> 45:36.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: And the outside of it is plastic.
[45:36.870 --> 45:38.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: So it has a little protection.
[45:38.870 --> 45:43.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then the charger portion, the battery portion, can also be used to charge something via USB.
[45:43.890 --> 45:47.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: So I can actually use my MP3 player to charge an iPod if I really wanted to.
[45:47.810 --> 45:51.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: In addition to being my own MP3 player, I can use it to charge my cell phone too.
[45:52.070 --> 45:53.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: So it does a little bit of everything.
[45:53.410 --> 45:56.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: We've got one more item too, one more pledge level.
[45:56.770 --> 46:03.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: For a pledge of $75, you can get, also from Make, a USB charger.
[46:03.690 --> 46:05.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, well, tell us about the USB charger.
[46:05.310 --> 46:07.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Ah, this is called the Minty Boost Kit.
[46:07.370 --> 46:17.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: And if anyone out there who has a cell phone, an iPod, or anything that you charge via USB, and that's pretty much everything now, this is a $20 kit.
[46:17.710 --> 46:23.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's probably twice as good as the ones that you can buy in the store for twice the price.
[46:23.530 --> 46:26.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: You build it yourself, and then you put it inside of an Altoids tin.
[46:26.450 --> 46:30.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: So when you're done with your little Altoids, and this is the small Altoids tin.
[46:30.610 --> 46:31.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's a little Altoids tin.
[46:31.250 --> 46:32.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: A little tiny Altoids.
[46:32.150 --> 46:44.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you always bring this with you, and you always have up to, you know, six hours of extra video playing on your iPod, or, you know, 20 hours on another type of music player, or any type of portable power that you need.
[46:44.790 --> 46:46.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is a kit that you construct.
[46:46.870 --> 46:49.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: I see, there's three calls on the line, 212-209-2950.
[46:49.650 --> 46:52.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: But wait, we're not finished describing this yet.
[46:52.170 --> 46:52.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's more.
[46:53.110 --> 46:53.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: And there's more.
[46:53.730 --> 46:56.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: It uses AA batteries, and those are rechargeable.
[46:56.450 --> 47:05.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: So you're actually helping the environment by not just, you know, tossing discarded batteries for some of these chargers, like the 9-volt battery chargers that you see for iPods and other things.
[47:05.190 --> 47:07.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: You really don't charge 9 volts that often.
[47:07.390 --> 47:09.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you're also losing a lot of the voltage.
[47:09.570 --> 47:11.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: It goes from 9 volts to 5 volts.
[47:11.350 --> 47:16.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: This one is taking smaller capacity batteries and bringing them up to 5 volts.
[47:16.310 --> 47:19.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, okay, for the $75 pledge, you get that USB charger.
[47:19.170 --> 47:24.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: And in addition to that, and in addition to the Off The Hook T-shirt, you get something known as the maker's book.
[47:24.490 --> 47:24.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[47:24.910 --> 47:25.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: What's that?
[47:25.350 --> 47:33.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: This book is a book that we put together the first year of make, and it catalogs around 100 people who are makers.
[47:33.850 --> 47:37.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're people who build interesting contraptions in their garage.
[47:37.730 --> 47:39.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's a guy who made an alarm clock that cooks bacon.
[47:40.710 --> 47:41.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: So that would wake him up.
[47:42.050 --> 47:45.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's a person who makes Nixie tube clocks.
[47:45.070 --> 47:47.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's a person who made a low-cost baby warmer.
[47:47.530 --> 47:47.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Unbelievable.
[47:48.870 --> 47:49.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: A baby warmer?
[47:49.910 --> 47:50.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: A baby warmer.
[47:50.830 --> 47:52.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: In some countries...
[47:52.110 --> 47:52.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: For cold babies.
[47:52.550 --> 47:52.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[47:52.850 --> 47:54.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, in some countries, the mortality rate is...
[47:54.830 --> 47:57.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: Babies die because they don't have the right equipment.
[47:57.570 --> 48:04.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: So a doctor, she made a baby warmer from low-cost materials like a light bulb with basically a dimmer switch.
[48:04.490 --> 48:04.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[48:04.690 --> 48:07.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it cut the mortality rate, you know, in half.
[48:07.450 --> 48:10.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: And so, you know, little things like that.
[48:10.110 --> 48:11.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: So we catalog all these things.
[48:11.410 --> 48:16.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's a great coffee table book, beautifully illustrated, and the photographs are fantastic.
[48:16.450 --> 48:20.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, of course, you know, you can go online and, you know, Google for a maker's book if you wanted to see this.
[48:20.750 --> 48:32.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: But definitely one to have, especially if you know someone who you want to get inspired about building things or engineering, or just you want to see a lot of, you know, bizarre things that you never thought people made themselves.
[48:32.170 --> 48:34.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: And these aren't, you know, necessarily companies.
[48:34.670 --> 48:35.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: These are just regular people.
[48:35.950 --> 48:39.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: So 212-209-2950 is the phone number to call for a $75 pledge.
[48:40.290 --> 48:45.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: You'll get the USB charger, the maker's book, which sounds really pretty fascinating.
[48:46.370 --> 48:48.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the Off The Hook t-shirt, $75.
[48:48.870 --> 48:51.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Again, limited number of those, 212-209-2950.
[48:52.010 --> 49:06.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: For a pledge of $250, you'll get the entire Make Magazine box set along with the MP3 player kit, which is guaranteed to make you a person to be looked at with interest by all sorts of people.
[49:07.050 --> 49:09.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it'll provide you with a valuable service, too.
[49:09.530 --> 49:09.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[49:10.130 --> 49:13.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: We only have... we might be out of them by now, but we had four.
[49:13.790 --> 49:17.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: So if they're still available, 212-209-2950 for a pledge of $250.
[49:18.430 --> 49:25.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: For a pledge of $50, you'll get the TV-B-Gone, the amazing device used to turn off television sets.
[49:26.050 --> 49:35.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: And for all pledges, $25 and above, Off The Hook t-shirts that tell the world that you listen to the show about technology and hackers and all sorts of things like that.
[49:35.870 --> 49:37.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: 212-209-2950.
[49:37.390 --> 49:40.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: And of course, with your pledge of any amount, you keep the radio station going.
[49:40.590 --> 49:41.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's the real goal.
[49:41.990 --> 49:42.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's what it's all about.
[49:42.730 --> 49:46.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because if you go around the dial, you'll hear a lot of garbage on the radio.
[49:46.990 --> 49:50.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: You'll hear a lot of music and a lot of the same repetitive crap.
[49:50.770 --> 49:52.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's all paid for already.
[49:52.470 --> 49:58.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: They don't need to ask you for money because they've already taken it from you through advertising, through adding costs to products and things like that.
[49:58.990 --> 49:59.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: We don't do that.
[49:59.930 --> 50:00.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: We don't have commercials here.
[50:01.090 --> 50:05.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that means we can do things like, say, it's all a bunch of crap.
[50:05.290 --> 50:10.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we can talk about things honestly and not have to worry about sponsors.
[50:10.450 --> 50:13.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: The only sponsors we have to worry about are you, our listeners.
[50:13.330 --> 50:15.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: If we get you upset, then we have something to worry about.
[50:15.450 --> 50:17.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: 2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[50:18.330 --> 50:19.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's the number to call.
[50:19.270 --> 50:20.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Pledge whatever you can afford.
[50:20.210 --> 50:21.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: So we have a good number of calls on the line now.
[50:21.750 --> 50:22.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: So please keep them coming in.
[50:22.990 --> 50:26.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, here are some listeners that apparently we have pleased who have called in.
[50:26.790 --> 50:27.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we want to thank them.
[50:27.550 --> 50:32.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: We want to thank Paula Jay and her family from Flemington, New Jersey.
[50:32.910 --> 50:34.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: Steven from Granby, Massachusetts.
[50:35.970 --> 50:37.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: Melissa from Brooklyn.
[50:37.890 --> 50:39.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mark from Bloomington, Indiana.
[50:40.470 --> 50:42.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: Karen from Mount Vernon, New York.
[50:42.490 --> 50:44.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: Tekia from Ocean Beach, New York.
[50:45.310 --> 50:47.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Jerome from Passaic, New Jersey.
[50:49.610 --> 50:52.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: And Nora from Portchester, New York.
[50:52.450 --> 50:52.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[50:53.030 --> 50:56.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I have also this pile of people that don't want to be thanked on the air.
[50:56.370 --> 50:57.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: Why do you have the pile then?
[50:57.310 --> 51:00.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not exactly sure, but I'm going to thank them not by name.
[51:00.330 --> 51:00.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[51:00.650 --> 51:01.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Those anonymous people out there.
[51:01.930 --> 51:02.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: We couldn't do it without you.
[51:03.190 --> 51:04.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: 2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[51:04.730 --> 51:05.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's what I like to see.
[51:05.190 --> 51:07.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Look at all the little red lights on the board there.
[51:07.310 --> 51:08.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's very nice.
[51:08.310 --> 51:09.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: We want to thank those people too.
[51:09.510 --> 51:16.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: And those people who are about to pick up their phone and dial 2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0 because you make all the difference.
[51:16.330 --> 51:17.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: Again, we're not going to be on next week.
[51:17.590 --> 51:20.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: So if you want these particular items, you've got to call now.
[51:20.530 --> 51:22.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: 2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[51:22.850 --> 51:25.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Pledge of $25 and above gets you the Off The Hook t-shirt.
[51:25.830 --> 51:26.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: Pledge of $50.
[51:26.590 --> 51:29.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: TV-B-Gone, along with the aforementioned Off The Hook t-shirt.
[51:30.690 --> 51:35.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: $75, a USB charger and the Maker's Book from Make Magazine.
[51:35.430 --> 51:36.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: $75 pledge for that.
[51:37.070 --> 51:41.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: $250, the Make Magazine box set along with the MP3 player kit.
[51:41.210 --> 51:43.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: 2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[51:43.910 --> 51:46.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of varied material that we have here.
[51:46.250 --> 51:48.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm very impressed with what we've come up with.
[51:48.790 --> 51:53.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: And the electronics that you can build, that lasts a long time.
[51:54.230 --> 51:54.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.
[51:54.930 --> 51:55.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: You learn from it.
[51:55.770 --> 51:59.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not just something you're going to throw away.
[51:59.310 --> 52:00.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's something you're going to take care of.
[52:00.390 --> 52:02.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's something you're going to learn a new skill.
[52:02.330 --> 52:07.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, it's interesting because you have a whole community of people reading Make Magazine and it seems to be growing by the issue.
[52:08.070 --> 52:10.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Has this community not existed before?
[52:10.550 --> 52:10.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: No.
[52:10.910 --> 52:12.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: It seems like you guys should have been around forever.
[52:12.490 --> 52:15.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, the thing is, I think we didn't make this community.
[52:15.430 --> 52:16.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was already there.
[52:16.570 --> 52:17.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was just time.
[52:17.810 --> 52:21.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: And with the Internet, with publishing, with technology, all kind of...
[52:23.190 --> 52:29.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: from wikis to just websites and blogs, there was just a great way for people to share information.
[52:29.550 --> 52:31.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, we didn't find the audience.
[52:31.590 --> 52:32.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: They kind of found us.
[52:33.230 --> 52:34.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's great.
[52:34.130 --> 52:44.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'd like to mention that the makers around the country, including Philadelphia, have joined and hold regular meetings, or at least semi-regular meetings.
[52:45.070 --> 52:49.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: The Make Philly group has had several meetings here in Philadelphia.
[52:50.210 --> 52:52.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we've put some pretty good projects together.
[52:52.650 --> 52:55.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we have little competitions at a lot of our meetings.
[52:56.010 --> 53:10.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: We bring materials, and we're given a task to build, like, a race car from just household materials that's a model race car that will beat all the other contestants, or something like that.
[53:10.510 --> 53:12.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Something just fun, competition.
[53:12.050 --> 53:14.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: You spend a couple of hours trying to outdo other makers.
[53:15.230 --> 53:16.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's a lot of fun.
[53:16.630 --> 53:19.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: So there's probably a group in New York also, Phil?
[53:19.770 --> 53:20.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, there will be.
[53:21.310 --> 53:27.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah, we're going to try our best to have regular meetings in, you know, all cities, and we'll see.
[53:27.810 --> 53:28.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: Awesome.
[53:28.290 --> 53:28.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[53:29.050 --> 53:30.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Just don't have them on the first Friday of the night.
[53:30.810 --> 53:31.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no.
[53:31.110 --> 53:31.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: The first Friday of the month, rather.
[53:32.370 --> 53:32.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[53:33.010 --> 53:35.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because then it would be a tough choice.
[53:35.490 --> 53:35.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[53:35.830 --> 53:40.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, wow, yeah, I mean, that's great that the community is out there, and it apparently seems to be growing.
[53:40.970 --> 53:42.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's a magazine.
[53:42.970 --> 53:45.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, magazines, people were afraid they were dying off.
[53:45.390 --> 53:46.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: I certainly was.
[53:46.070 --> 53:49.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it seems like they're being read.
[53:49.190 --> 53:50.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: New magazines are coming out.
[53:50.090 --> 53:57.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think general magazines, people aren't so interested in, but very specific magazines about smaller topics, well, seemingly smaller topics.
[53:58.170 --> 54:02.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: Like People Magazine, you might not read, but like a magazine that teaches you something, that might be more interesting to you.
[54:02.830 --> 54:03.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the eclectic ones.
[54:03.650 --> 54:03.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[54:03.930 --> 54:04.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's what we're all about.
[54:05.170 --> 54:06.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: 212-209-2950.
[54:06.670 --> 54:08.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're coming into our closing minutes here.
[54:08.890 --> 54:10.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: And also, I understand we have a couple of announcements.
[54:10.850 --> 54:11.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Jim, you had something you wanted to tell people?
[54:11.950 --> 54:21.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we've talked a number of times about the demonstrations of the new voting systems, the touchscreens and the optical ballot devices.
[54:21.910 --> 54:25.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the last demonstration and the public hearing are coming up next week.
[54:26.150 --> 54:35.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: The demonstration, Monday, January 22nd at Medgar Evans College Auditorium, 1650 Bedford Avenue, Brooklyn, between 5 and 9 p.m.
[54:35.890 --> 54:39.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: Usually they end early, so get there between 5 and 7 if you want to hear any of it.
[54:39.770 --> 54:44.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the public hearing will be Tuesday, January 23rd at the Board of Elections.
[54:45.370 --> 54:47.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's at 42 Broadway.
[54:47.030 --> 54:50.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's between Bowling Green and Rector Street stations.
[54:50.930 --> 54:53.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what the exact cross street is, but you'll find it.
[54:53.350 --> 54:55.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: 42 Broadway, 6th floor, New York, New York.
[54:56.050 --> 54:59.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's Tuesday, January 23rd at 4 p.m.
[54:59.270 --> 55:01.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: going until every speaker is heard.
[55:01.490 --> 55:04.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, go to Medgar Evans College this coming Monday.
[55:05.110 --> 55:07.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: Take a look at the voting machines that are proposed.
[55:07.170 --> 55:10.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then give the Board of Elections a piece of your mind on Tuesday.
[55:10.550 --> 55:13.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, and I believe, Bernie, you also had some kind of announcement to make down there in Philadelphia.
[55:13.930 --> 55:19.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I wanted to mention real quick that tomorrow night in Philly, there's a public forum on media ownership.
[55:19.930 --> 55:29.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is an opportunity where you can actually meet two commissioners of the Federal Communications Commission, two FCC commissioners, Michael Copps, a good guy, and Jonathan Aylstein.
[55:29.990 --> 55:40.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you can voice your concerns about media ownership or anything else about media regulation directly to the FCC here in Philadelphia, Temple University, tomorrow night.
[55:40.510 --> 55:43.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you want this at 6 o'clock, it's free to the public.
[55:43.390 --> 55:47.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: And if you're interested, you can go to mediatank.org.
[55:48.110 --> 55:52.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'll call area code 215-563-1100.
[55:52.190 --> 55:53.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is a really good event.
[55:53.410 --> 55:54.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's a lot of good people.
[55:54.370 --> 55:56.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you can actually talk to an FCC commissioner.
[55:56.930 --> 55:59.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a rare, rare opportunity.
[56:00.050 --> 56:01.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: I just handed another card.
[56:01.790 --> 56:04.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: I want to thank Brad from Windsor, Ontario for pledging.
[56:04.890 --> 56:18.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we should also, of course, thank Phil and Mitch, who donate the premiums so that all of the money that you pledge when you call us at 212-209-2950 goes directly to the station to help keep Off The Hook and all the other programs on the air.
[56:18.970 --> 56:22.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: So there's still a few minutes left to call and get these premiums.
[56:22.290 --> 56:24.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, thanks very much, guys, for donating.
[56:24.230 --> 56:29.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: And Mitch, I'm sure we'll be hearing from you in the future with the latest version of TV-B-Gones and other things you might be up to.
[56:29.710 --> 56:30.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yeah, for sure.
[56:31.250 --> 56:32.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: And Phil, I want to thank you for coming in.
[56:33.010 --> 56:36.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: And best of luck with Make Magazine and keep doing what you're doing.
[56:36.950 --> 56:40.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: And one more time, the premium levels, TV-B-Gones for a pledge of $50.
[56:42.370 --> 56:47.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: Of course, the Off The Hook t-shirts available for all pledges 25 and above.
[56:48.030 --> 56:50.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: USB charger and the Maker's Book for $75.
[56:50.650 --> 56:55.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the Make Magazine box set, along with an MP3 player kit for pledges of $250.
[56:55.770 --> 56:59.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: If they're still available, 212-209-2950.
[56:59.450 --> 57:00.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Please keep those calls coming in.
[57:01.070 --> 57:02.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: We won't be here next week.
[57:02.430 --> 57:03.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: We'll be here in two weeks.
[57:04.230 --> 57:04.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: See you then.
[57:05.010 --> 57:08.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, and don't forget, check out talk.hope.net, our brand new forum.
[57:08.650 --> 57:08.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good night.