Off The Hook - 2007-02-14

[00:00.310 --> 00:03.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is Heidi Boghossian, co-host of Law and Disorder.
[00:04.350 --> 00:14.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: In the last decade, rates of parole in New York State have declined dramatically, mainly for persons convicted of murder, manslaughter, and other violent crimes.
[00:15.010 --> 00:30.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: Join us this Thursday, February 15th, at the New York Bar Association, located at 42 West 44th Street, for a powerful discussion of the current state of parole, the need for reform, and ways to restore fairness to the system.
[00:30.310 --> 00:40.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: Among the speakers, John Carr, Albany Bureau Chief, New York Law Journal, and Vernon Manley, former member of the New York State Board of Parole.
[00:40.530 --> 00:46.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's this Thursday, February 15th, New York Bar Association, at 42 West 44th Street.
[00:47.330 --> 00:55.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: For more information, visit nycbar.org, or call 212-382-6600.
[01:01.990 --> 01:07.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it is just about 7 o'clock on this dumbest day of the year.
[01:07.830 --> 01:10.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: Time, once again, for an edition of Off The Hook.
[02:35.780 --> 02:36.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:36.840 --> 02:38.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: The program is Off The Hook.
[02:38.280 --> 02:41.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday night.
[02:43.840 --> 02:50.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: As we struggle with getting the headphones in the studio to work, for some reason, the ones that I usually use are dead.
[02:50.400 --> 02:55.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we're trying to fix them live and on the air, just one of those things you do on listener-supported radio.
[02:57.180 --> 03:02.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Speaking of which, we want to thank all the listeners for supporting us so much in the last edition of the program.
[03:02.560 --> 03:04.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll get to details on that a little later.
[03:05.560 --> 03:06.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Who else is with us?
[03:06.480 --> 03:06.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mike, you're with us.
[03:07.060 --> 03:08.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do you have an update on the headphone repair?
[03:08.200 --> 03:09.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: I have no update.
[03:09.260 --> 03:09.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: No update.
[03:10.360 --> 03:12.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: We have two headphones here, and neither one of them works.
[03:12.960 --> 03:16.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, to be fair, we have about seven headphones, and two don't work.
[03:16.260 --> 03:17.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: But they're the two that are nearest you.
[03:17.560 --> 03:18.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: The two, for me, don't work.
[03:18.860 --> 03:21.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's a backup set for when the other ones don't work.
[03:21.100 --> 03:25.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: And now I'm using one of yours, and you have to drape the cord all the way around the console.
[03:25.100 --> 03:25.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's kind of crazy.
[03:27.360 --> 03:27.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[03:27.680 --> 03:29.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hopefully we'll get that fixed, because it's really distracting.
[03:30.320 --> 03:31.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Jim is with us tonight.
[03:32.240 --> 03:34.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Save the wiki, save the world.
[03:34.180 --> 03:34.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[03:34.560 --> 03:37.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, I'm just going to say you're here and turn your mic down.
[03:38.840 --> 03:39.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, Redbird?
[03:39.860 --> 03:40.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[03:40.740 --> 03:42.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: And over on the other side of the room is not Kevin.
[03:43.180 --> 03:43.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hello.
[03:43.780 --> 03:46.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: And down from Philadelphia, up from Philadelphia, is Bernie S.
[03:47.240 --> 03:50.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know if it's up or down, but greetings from Philadelphia.
[03:50.600 --> 03:51.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're in Philadelphia, that's for sure.
[03:52.500 --> 03:54.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, greetings to you from there.
[03:55.100 --> 04:02.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, we were not on the, uh, not on the air last week, um, because of the, uh, finishing week of the marathon.
[04:02.200 --> 04:03.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: But we certainly were on the air the week before that.
[04:04.080 --> 04:06.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, boy, did we ever, uh, make history here.
[04:06.660 --> 04:11.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: We raised $11,000, more than $11,000 in a single hour on this program.
[04:12.240 --> 04:18.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, um, I guess, uh, it was mostly due to the premium we were offering, which was the, um, the Hope DVD set.
[04:18.640 --> 04:23.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, boy, I guess we kind of outsmarted ourselves because we have to make a whole bunch of the things now.
[04:23.660 --> 04:24.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, Wes, we're doing.
[04:24.580 --> 04:25.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're getting them ready.
[04:26.180 --> 04:26.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're making them.
[04:26.860 --> 04:28.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: So please pay your pledge.
[04:28.220 --> 04:33.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, you will receive the, uh, full DVD set at our expense.
[04:33.820 --> 04:35.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: But we're happy to do it.
[04:35.860 --> 04:37.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, we were all shocked, weren't we?
[04:37.720 --> 04:38.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm shocked.
[04:38.460 --> 04:39.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm still shocked.
[04:39.200 --> 04:39.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm, I'm stunned.
[04:40.160 --> 04:41.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Shocked and gratitude, though.
[04:41.240 --> 04:41.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Shocked and stunned.
[04:42.100 --> 04:42.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, absolutely.
[04:43.400 --> 04:45.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: Can we start having competitions with the other shows?
[04:45.260 --> 04:46.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, yeah, that's a real healthy thing to do.
[04:47.440 --> 04:50.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Real way to get, uh, some hostility flowing in the hallways.
[04:51.000 --> 04:55.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, anything that, uh, that has happened in the last two weeks that we've missed as a result of not being on the air?
[04:56.480 --> 05:01.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, I know of, uh, Florida moving to end touchscreen voting.
[05:01.840 --> 05:02.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[05:03.360 --> 05:06.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, and going back to paper ballots, which I think is a good, good development.
[05:07.500 --> 05:12.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it is a good development if the paper ballots aren't, uh, uh, subject to, uh, the same incompetence.
[05:12.940 --> 05:15.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, do we know what kind of system they'll be going to particularly?
[05:16.200 --> 05:19.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, no, they just know that they're getting rid of the electronic system.
[05:19.200 --> 05:25.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, they're going, apparently, to one of these paper-based, uh, optical scan systems, which are fairly reliable.
[05:25.580 --> 05:30.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: You basically mark fill in the hole, you mark, you mark where you're, ballot, what you're voting for.
[05:31.240 --> 05:31.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh-huh.
[05:33.100 --> 05:37.020]  [SPEAKER_18]: And an optical scanner, uh, reads, uh, where the dark marks are.
[05:37.400 --> 05:37.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh-huh.
[05:37.600 --> 05:43.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's, uh, it's, it's certainly, uh, less confusing than some of the electronic systems I've seen.
[05:43.940 --> 05:47.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, let's see if they, uh, they get any better results down there as a result.
[05:48.560 --> 05:48.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, Jim?
[05:48.920 --> 05:53.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: We need to, uh, we need to find out what to do with all these electronic touchscreen machines.
[05:53.200 --> 05:55.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: They're going to be on the surplus market very soon.
[05:55.880 --> 05:56.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[05:57.220 --> 06:02.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: New Jersey is being sued to prevent them from using, uh, touchscreen machines.
[06:02.700 --> 06:13.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, in fact, uh, the, uh, the lawsuit is based on research from a Princeton professor named Andrew Apple, who got a number of machines off the Internet and, uh, hacked them.
[06:13.760 --> 06:16.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, it was very easy, according to him, to get into them.
[06:16.880 --> 06:30.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Just a little bit of screwing with a normal screwdriver and, uh, about a half hour of work, uh, that anybody with a bachelor's in computer science could do to, uh, defeat the code and, uh, make it register almost anything you wanted.
[06:30.520 --> 06:36.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: Now, how is this different from the membrane, uh, touchscreens that we use now, which aren't actually LCDs, but they're, you know...
[06:36.960 --> 06:37.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: The membrane touchscreens?
[06:37.900 --> 06:44.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, they have, they have, yeah, they have the carbon, carbon membrane behind them and, you, you know, it's an electronic voting machine, it's just not an LCD.
[06:45.260 --> 06:47.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, I've, I've absolutely no idea.
[06:47.520 --> 06:49.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: The, the article is not clear enough on that.
[06:49.860 --> 06:54.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's some sort of touchscreen and, uh, it was easy for him to, uh, to get at.
[06:54.280 --> 06:55.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's the main thrust of the article.
[06:55.840 --> 06:57.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: Now, do you know where that was done?
[06:57.920 --> 06:59.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: It was done at Princeton University.
[06:59.140 --> 06:59.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, okay.
[06:59.920 --> 07:02.100]  [SPEAKER_17]: So this was in a non-voting environment.
[07:02.300 --> 07:06.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, but he said it was very quick to get in and, and less than 10 minutes if you knew what you were doing.
[07:08.980 --> 07:11.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, well, it's, uh, it's always nice when people know what they're doing.
[07:12.340 --> 07:14.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, I'm sorry, I'm just...
[07:14.040 --> 07:14.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's very rare, though.
[07:15.040 --> 07:20.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, uh, with, with two non-working headphones here, it's, uh, I'm, I'm trying to think of people who know what they're doing and, uh...
[07:20.160 --> 07:21.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're wearing a working set.
[07:21.380 --> 07:24.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm wearing a working set, but it's pulling me, you know, across the room.
[07:24.720 --> 07:25.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's really tight, you know.
[07:25.560 --> 07:27.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're just trying to keep you closer to us.
[07:27.080 --> 07:27.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[07:27.740 --> 07:29.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, well, here's a story that I think is kind of interesting.
[07:30.160 --> 07:31.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, kind of scary, actually.
[07:31.500 --> 07:34.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, it's in preparation for the 2010 Winter Olympics.
[07:34.180 --> 07:36.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Who knows where the 2010 Winter Olympics will be?
[07:36.180 --> 07:36.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Jim?
[07:36.950 --> 07:38.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ooh, I'm on the spot now.
[07:38.820 --> 07:40.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm going to fail miserably here.
[07:40.420 --> 07:43.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, you already did because you didn't answer any other entries.
[07:43.460 --> 07:44.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: No?
[07:44.320 --> 07:44.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bernie?
[07:44.740 --> 07:44.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: China?
[07:45.160 --> 07:45.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think China?
[07:46.120 --> 07:47.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: China is 2008 Bernie.
[07:47.860 --> 07:48.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's the Summer Olympics.
[07:49.100 --> 07:49.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Big, big difference.
[07:50.280 --> 07:52.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, it'll be in Vancouver, Canada, British Columbia.
[07:53.500 --> 08:06.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: And a Vancouver police computer crime investigator has warned the city that plans for a citywide wireless Internet system puts the city at risk of terrorist attack during the 2010 Winter Olympic Games.
[08:06.360 --> 08:22.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, the combination of anonymous mobile Internet access and the potential presence of transit systems, traffic signals, and gas and electric utility systems as tenants on a citywide wireless network will make Vancouver a prime target for a paralyzing attack by hackers.
[08:23.320 --> 08:26.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, hackers are equivalent to terrorists at this point.
[08:26.620 --> 08:28.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Redbird, you look a little askance at this.
[08:28.400 --> 08:37.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, what they don't realize is that terrorists actually have resources, and if they wanted to have anonymous Internet access, they can use networks like Tor and a cellular wireless card if they wanted to.
[08:38.160 --> 08:41.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: Which is no different, and you get much better coverage than with Wi-Fi.
[08:42.120 --> 08:45.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: I really don't want to make this another chapter of tips for terrorists, but I'm going to.
[08:46.020 --> 08:59.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: If they don't install this wireless system in Vancouver, all you terrorists can simply go into places like Kinko's and Internet cafes and Starbucks, and there you can get anonymous access.
[08:59.200 --> 09:00.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Or even the library.
[09:00.420 --> 09:06.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: The library in Vancouver, unbeknownst to the police there, is obviously a terrorist front.
[09:06.520 --> 09:08.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: I just have maybe what's a dumb question here.
[09:08.840 --> 09:14.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Why in God's name are the traffic lights and the electric system and gas, why is that on wireless Internet?
[09:14.700 --> 09:15.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Why is that accessible at all?
[09:15.680 --> 09:16.200]  [SPEAKER_17]: Who said it was?
[09:16.420 --> 09:18.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, apparently, aren't they saying that it is?
[09:18.300 --> 09:18.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Apparently they are.
[09:19.000 --> 09:19.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you can attack it from there?
[09:19.920 --> 09:21.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, there were several ifs.
[09:22.180 --> 09:27.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: If it's in the wireless network, and if there's this, and if that, and if, if, if, if.
[09:28.060 --> 09:41.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: If they act really as stupid as anybody could possibly expect them to act, and if all these people suddenly are able to gather their forces and conduct a denial of service attack or something like that, yeah, it could happen, I guess.
[09:41.580 --> 09:43.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: There are some wireless traffic lights.
[09:43.180 --> 09:44.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: I've just never seen them on Wi-Fi.
[09:45.220 --> 09:46.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Are they reachable on the Internet, though?
[09:47.260 --> 09:48.360]  [SPEAKER_17]: I would highly doubt it.
[09:48.360 --> 09:51.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: They mostly used to communicate with each other to synchronize themselves.
[09:51.400 --> 09:53.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: See, I think, I think we sort of have an obligation.
[09:53.800 --> 09:59.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: If, if, if hospital records are kept on the Internet, we have an obligation to hack them and find them and expose them.
[10:00.120 --> 10:00.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[10:00.380 --> 10:06.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, I, I, I think, I think it's important people realize this information is out there, and it's potentially vulnerable.
[10:06.740 --> 10:08.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: You don't wait for the attack to happen.
[10:08.360 --> 10:09.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: You don't wait for the data to be destroyed.
[10:09.620 --> 10:12.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: You go out, you find it, you say, look, you guys are doing something stupid.
[10:12.940 --> 10:13.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: You better fix this.
[10:14.160 --> 10:17.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: But of course, in this day and age, that's equated with terrorism.
[10:17.640 --> 10:22.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: And if you find something and tell somebody, you're the terrorist rather than somebody who's trying to help things.
[10:23.400 --> 10:29.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, on this same note, this has to do with a United States cyber counterattack.
[10:29.920 --> 10:31.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: And boy, this is really kind of scary.
[10:31.480 --> 10:33.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Comes from Network World.
[10:33.400 --> 10:53.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: If the United States found itself under a major cyber attack aimed at undermining the nation's critical information infrastructure, the Department of Defense is prepared, based on the authority of our president, the dear leader, to launch a cyber counterattack or an actual bombing of an attack source.
[10:53.360 --> 10:54.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's right.
[10:54.300 --> 11:03.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, if you launch a denial of service attack against the White House, they can actually launch missiles, real missiles at your house or country or whatnot.
[11:03.440 --> 11:04.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, here's the thing.
[11:04.220 --> 11:13.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: A lot of these denial of service attacks are done by, like, networks of PCs in people's homes that get taken over in the home where the PC doing the attack resides.
[11:13.780 --> 11:14.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's, you know...
[11:14.740 --> 11:15.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: You've got to be more careful.
[11:15.880 --> 11:18.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: You've got to install some security, you know, because you'll be held accountable.
[11:18.820 --> 11:21.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Of course, they won't be held accountable, but you will be held accountable.
[11:21.560 --> 11:27.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, yeah, if you see an ICBM heading towards your house, you're going to say to yourself, boy, I wish I had installed that latest update from Microsoft.
[11:28.880 --> 11:29.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know?
[11:29.520 --> 11:30.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: I would say it.
[11:30.540 --> 11:30.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[11:32.900 --> 11:43.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, yeah, the primary group responsible for analyzing the need for any cyber counter-strike is the, get this, National Cyber Response Coordination Group, the NCRCG.
[11:43.880 --> 11:44.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: NCRCG.
[11:44.640 --> 11:48.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: The three key members of the NCRCG who hail from the U.S.
[11:48.560 --> 12:01.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: CERT computer readiness team, God help us, the Department of Justice, and the Defense Department this week described how they would seek to coordinate a national response in the event of a major cyber event from a known attacker.
[12:01.840 --> 12:02.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Cyber event.
[12:02.680 --> 12:04.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: We have to be able to respond, they say.
[12:04.700 --> 12:07.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: We need to be in a coordinated response.
[12:08.360 --> 12:14.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: They note that the Defense Department network, subject to millions of probes each day, has the biggest target on its back.
[12:15.160 --> 12:16.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Here's my question.
[12:16.300 --> 12:18.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Again, it's the same basic question I asked before.
[12:18.440 --> 12:26.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Does the Defense Department keep all of its sensitive information, all of its satellite imagery, and missile launching technology, is that all accessible on the Internet?
[12:26.800 --> 12:36.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: So if somebody attacks them that way, they're crippling the Defense Department, or are they simply keeping people from visiting their website and learning all about how a career in the Defense Department might be nice for you?
[12:36.700 --> 12:42.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: But either way, there are much more efficient technical responses to this other than, you know, they're using this as an excuse now.
[12:42.620 --> 12:51.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not if you don't know what you're doing, then sending a nice bomb to somebody's way is really the best way to respond, because they don't know how to deal with it technically, so they're just going to use force.
[12:51.700 --> 12:56.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: The claim is that the Defense Department network is receiving millions of probes per day.
[12:56.960 --> 13:04.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, there's about 6 billion people in the world, so that means on each day, about one person in 1,000 probes the Defense Department network.
[13:04.980 --> 13:05.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, you can do it many times.
[13:06.740 --> 13:07.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: I probe it several times.
[13:07.820 --> 13:11.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, you know, for me, maybe I'm taking up a few of those slots.
[13:12.240 --> 13:13.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: I just don't know where they get these numbers.
[13:14.080 --> 13:15.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: But it's not just the Defense Department either.
[13:15.680 --> 13:17.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, even your home PCs are being probed all the time.
[13:17.860 --> 13:18.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's right.
[13:18.180 --> 13:20.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: If you look at your Internet traffic.
[13:20.260 --> 13:23.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, can I bomb somebody's house if they probe me the wrong way?
[13:25.620 --> 13:27.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: I guess that's the question on everybody's mind right now.
[13:29.180 --> 13:33.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, last week, there was a massive but unsuccessful denial-of-service attack on the Internet's root DNS.
[13:34.320 --> 13:35.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: You guys hear about this?
[13:35.400 --> 13:37.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: This has been going on for some time, attacks on the root DNS.
[13:37.820 --> 13:38.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, but, you know, I haven't noticed.
[13:39.040 --> 13:41.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Have you noticed as a user, as an end user, have you noticed this?
[13:41.840 --> 13:42.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Rarely.
[13:42.260 --> 13:43.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hasn't really affected us.
[13:44.120 --> 13:48.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: It targeted military and other networks, but didn't rise to the level of requiring a response.
[13:48.920 --> 13:53.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: It made the possibility of a massive Internet collapse more real than theoretical.
[13:53.520 --> 14:03.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Had the attack been successful, there may have been a cyber counter-strike from the United States, said Mark Hall, director of the International Information Assurance Program for the Defense Department.
[14:03.700 --> 14:05.680]  [SPEAKER_17]: This was a very distributed attack, though.
[14:05.760 --> 14:10.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: There's no way that missiles could actually help this if it were a credible solution.
[14:10.400 --> 14:11.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: It would make us feel better, though.
[14:12.180 --> 14:13.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's what the missiles are for.
[14:14.160 --> 14:16.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, it just can't get any crazier.
[14:16.640 --> 14:18.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I say this every week, and every week it does, somehow.
[14:19.440 --> 14:21.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bernie, any feelings from down there?
[14:22.780 --> 14:23.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's ludicrous.
[14:23.800 --> 14:39.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, these defense systems should not, if they have classified information on them, which, according to what you said, that information should be classified, there are laws and regulations against putting classified information systems that contain classified information on the public Internet.
[14:39.800 --> 14:40.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's illegal.
[14:40.820 --> 14:42.380]  [SPEAKER_18]: They shouldn't be doing it in the first place.
[14:43.840 --> 14:44.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.
[14:45.060 --> 14:57.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: Speaking of attacks, the ITU has apparently attended some conference in Cuba where they are condemning radio electronic aggression of the United States, whatever that means.
[14:58.140 --> 14:59.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Who's condemning this?
[14:59.300 --> 15:03.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: The ITU, which is the International Telecommunications Union in Cuba.
[15:03.920 --> 15:06.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're going to Cuba for some conference.
[15:06.300 --> 15:13.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: And while they're there, they're saying, you know, hey, United States, you shouldn't be beaming all this propaganda at Cuba in the AM and FM bands.
[15:13.240 --> 15:13.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[15:14.040 --> 15:16.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Does that include the FM stations we heard when we were there?
[15:16.960 --> 15:20.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: The B92 or whatever it was where I was playing the awful music?
[15:20.320 --> 15:20.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[15:20.960 --> 15:28.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: It seems more aggressive than a lot of things that could be counted as actual aggression, but it seemed less intentional than the stuff they're talking about here.
[15:29.240 --> 15:31.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: So is this condemnation going to actually accomplish anything?
[15:31.560 --> 15:31.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: No.
[15:32.720 --> 15:34.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: I somehow didn't think so.
[15:35.720 --> 15:40.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Here's an interesting little tidbit that comes out of Bucharest, Romania.
[15:41.580 --> 15:47.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Pirated Microsoft software helped Romania build a vibrant technology industry.
[15:47.340 --> 15:51.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's according to the Romanian president, Treon Basescu.
[15:51.700 --> 15:54.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: He told Bill Gates this last Thursday.
[15:55.260 --> 16:02.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Basescu was meeting the software giant's chairman in Bucharest to celebrate the opening of a Microsoft global technical center in the Romanian capital.
[16:02.740 --> 16:08.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: And he said during a joint news conference, piracy helped the young generation discover computers.
[16:08.660 --> 16:11.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: It set off the development of the IT industry in Romania.
[16:12.260 --> 16:17.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: It helped Romanians improve their creative capacity in the IT industry which has become famous around the world.
[16:18.440 --> 16:22.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ten years ago it was an investment in Romania's friendship with Microsoft and with Bill Gates.
[16:23.560 --> 16:26.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Gates made no comment.
[16:28.140 --> 16:29.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow, this is amazing.
[16:29.900 --> 16:34.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Imagine how much more computing power Romania would have been had it been Linux.
[16:35.120 --> 16:37.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, well, it would have been harder for him to pirate it, wouldn't it?
[16:38.040 --> 16:39.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, yeah, that's one thing.
[16:39.300 --> 16:47.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: But also, I'm sure that it would have advanced the lowest level of their computer programmers and users.
[16:48.720 --> 16:51.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Shot in the arm for pirates everywhere around the world there.
[16:52.060 --> 16:54.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: So we'll see what happens as far as that goes.
[16:54.280 --> 16:56.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Have you heard about Verizon and NewsSpeak?
[16:56.860 --> 16:58.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Verizon and NewsSpeak?
[16:58.160 --> 17:02.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Verizon is using NewsSpeak and more is less for Verizon.
[17:02.800 --> 17:04.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: They have a new thing called Verizon Fios.
[17:05.080 --> 17:05.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Have you heard about this?
[17:05.980 --> 17:06.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's not so new.
[17:06.920 --> 17:07.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: But yeah.
[17:07.460 --> 17:07.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[17:07.800 --> 17:16.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's their fiber optic system where they give you, much like cable vision, television, Internet, and telephone all in one.
[17:16.540 --> 17:25.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: But what they do when they give this to you is they take away your copper wired phone and you just have the over the Internet, over the fiber system phone.
[17:25.880 --> 17:29.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: So when you have a power outage, three hours later you have no phone.
[17:30.420 --> 17:31.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: But there is a three hour delay?
[17:32.220 --> 17:33.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: I heard there was some kind of battery.
[17:33.680 --> 17:38.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: They have a backup battery that lasts three, perhaps four hours and that's what you have.
[17:38.720 --> 17:41.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: You have to pay extra to retain your original phone line.
[17:42.560 --> 17:42.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[17:43.440 --> 17:44.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Snafu department here.
[17:44.880 --> 17:46.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is what's been going on.
[17:46.500 --> 17:48.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Correct me if we've gone over any of these before.
[17:48.180 --> 17:51.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: It seems like the same kinds of stories but they just keep happening.
[17:52.460 --> 17:59.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Admissions department email sent from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill congratulated 2,700 prospective freshmen this week on their acceptance to the school.
[17:59.640 --> 18:00.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Actually it was last week.
[18:00.920 --> 18:03.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: The problem is that none of the applicants have actually been admitted.
[18:04.880 --> 18:06.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: They won't start finding out until
[18:11.080 --> 18:18.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: by the stress and anxiety that students experience as a result of the admissions process said Stephen Farmer the school's director of undergraduate admissions.
[18:18.720 --> 18:23.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Two employees somehow accidentally sent email on that Tuesday.
[18:23.640 --> 18:27.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Two employees made the same mistake or it took two employees to send a single email.
[18:27.440 --> 18:27.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[18:28.240 --> 18:34.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: But basically they sent email to all these people saying congratulations on your admission to the university and they have not been admitted.
[18:36.340 --> 18:37.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: So wow, that must be fun.
[18:37.480 --> 18:38.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: They haven't been rejected either.
[18:38.820 --> 18:39.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: They haven't even been looked at.
[18:39.600 --> 18:41.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: I didn't know you got accepted via email either.
[18:42.540 --> 18:43.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: That seems like a...
[18:43.140 --> 18:44.420]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's actually a common way to notify.
[18:44.500 --> 18:44.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: Is it really?
[18:45.040 --> 18:46.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, maybe not via email but online.
[18:47.280 --> 18:54.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, I mean, if you know somebody has applied, wouldn't it be a simple matter to simply spoof email and make it seem like they were accepted?
[18:54.960 --> 18:59.420]  [SPEAKER_17]: They mostly require you to log in via a website using a pre...
[18:59.420 --> 19:00.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's not sending email then.
[19:00.820 --> 19:04.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, well, they'll send you an email saying your application status is now available or something like that.
[19:04.920 --> 19:05.060]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay.
[19:05.060 --> 19:05.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: And then you'll log in.
[19:05.900 --> 19:06.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: But it is...
[19:06.480 --> 19:09.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: But this said it was an email that went out not something in a database that was...
[19:09.860 --> 19:10.600]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, that's kind of silly.
[19:10.860 --> 19:11.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[19:12.140 --> 19:15.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, again, demerit for University of North Carolina there.
[19:15.720 --> 19:15.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[19:16.120 --> 19:25.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: A state computer containing the name, social security numbers, and bank account information for 70,000 Vermont residents was hacked into by a remote user sometime before early December.
[19:25.800 --> 19:32.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's possible the information has been used illicitly, though there is no indication of it, said Human Services Secretary Cynthia La Ware.
[19:33.100 --> 19:43.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: The state plans to send letters to the affected individuals urging them to change their names and social security numbers and move to a different state or monitor their bank accounts.
[19:43.940 --> 19:47.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Actually, it's the same old thing where they pay for the credit monitoring for a particular amount of time.
[19:48.260 --> 19:50.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I don't know, is it an opt-out thing?
[19:50.400 --> 19:55.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do you have to tell them you want to renew it or do you automatically get charged if you don't renew it, if you don't tell them you want out?
[19:56.100 --> 20:05.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: So all the ID, impersonator, whatever they're called, is wait a year after stealing the data and then the people won't be monitored anymore.
[20:06.360 --> 20:06.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: It sure seems that way.
[20:06.920 --> 20:07.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: It sure seems that way.
[20:08.660 --> 20:12.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: About 12,000 of the affected individuals owed back child support.
[20:12.260 --> 20:22.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: The rest of the names, about 58,800 people, were supplied to the state by the New England Federal Credit Union, which shared customer information with the understanding that only the data on child support debtors would be used.
[20:22.640 --> 20:23.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: But guess what?
[20:23.400 --> 20:24.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: It didn't quite work out that way.
[20:25.160 --> 20:30.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: So yeah, your names are being bandied about all over the place and may not have affected you yet, but one day it will.
[20:31.360 --> 20:32.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: And finally...
[20:32.140 --> 20:32.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, Bernie?
[20:33.100 --> 20:34.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: I just had a suggestion on this.
[20:34.840 --> 20:53.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: I would love to see some legislation proposed that would force whoever was responsible for leaving the system open and vulnerable to public information about... or to private information about state residents or whatever jurisdiction you belong to, make that exposed,
[20:53.760 --> 21:02.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: to require them to pay for lifetime credit alert service.
[21:02.600 --> 21:03.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: Not just a year.
[21:04.600 --> 21:13.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: Unfortunately, the money to pay for that is going to have to come out of the taxpayer's pocket anyway, as opposed to the people who are truly responsible for the gaffe in the first place.
[21:13.460 --> 21:15.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: These people are never the ones who are really held responsible.
[21:15.900 --> 21:17.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: The public ends up paying...
[21:17.400 --> 21:23.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: In my opinion, the best way to hold them responsible is simply to relieve them of those responsibilities.
[21:23.640 --> 21:24.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're no good at them.
[21:24.880 --> 21:31.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you operate a system that allows this kind of thing to happen, you shouldn't be doing that.
[21:32.100 --> 21:41.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you are the leader of a city that panics over an electronic display and you cause millions of dollars of wasted time, you shouldn't be doing that anymore either.
[21:42.300 --> 21:45.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: And if you start wars based on lies, you shouldn't be doing that as well.
[21:45.340 --> 21:45.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: But never mind.
[21:46.040 --> 21:47.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's all sorts of...
[21:47.000 --> 21:50.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: I just think that's the best way to get people away from the jobs they're bad at.
[21:51.060 --> 21:52.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, it just seems like...
[21:52.200 --> 21:54.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: It works in lower society.
[21:54.180 --> 21:56.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: It should work in governmental society as well, don't you think?
[21:57.320 --> 21:57.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're here.
[21:58.200 --> 21:58.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[21:59.020 --> 22:13.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: And finally, an Aberdeen woman, this is over in Scotland, who asked for her bank statement, was sent details of not one, not two, not twelve, but 75,000 other customers.
[22:13.140 --> 22:20.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, Stephanie McLaughlin was sent the financial details by...
[22:20.120 --> 22:23.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I must have come in a truck or something, by Halifax Bank of Scotland.
[22:24.000 --> 22:32.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: She received five packages, each containing 500 sheets, 30 customers' names, sort codes, and account details.
[22:33.100 --> 22:37.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: HBOS apologized and said it was carrying out an investigation.
[22:38.040 --> 22:46.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: These packages were just dumped on my doorstep one day, she said, and I was really shocked because it was obvious the bank did not have a clue they had left them in my house or their contents.
[22:47.080 --> 22:49.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was really shocking they made that mistake.
[22:49.560 --> 22:53.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think I'll probably be changing to another bank pretty soon because it is terrible negligence on their part.
[22:55.840 --> 23:00.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: She didn't say whether her statement was included within all the ones that got sent to her, but...
[23:00.980 --> 23:01.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Who has time to look?
[23:02.540 --> 23:04.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I mean, I think it's her responsibility to look.
[23:05.120 --> 23:05.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: 75,000.
[23:06.440 --> 23:13.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, speaking of massive snafus, I don't know if you've read about this on our website, but the post office really kind of screwed us over on this one.
[23:13.560 --> 23:16.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: They lost the last edition of 2600 being sent overseas.
[23:18.020 --> 23:28.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we apologize to all those people over in every country except the United States and Canada who apparently have not yet received the issue that was mailed in January, early January.
[23:29.660 --> 23:34.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: And what we're probably going to have to do is remail those issues to everybody at our expense.
[23:34.760 --> 23:37.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: We've been trying to get the post office to take responsibility for this.
[23:37.960 --> 23:38.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: They will not.
[23:38.860 --> 23:45.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: They keep saying it was dropped off in our facility and there's no paperwork to prove that it ever went anywhere after that.
[23:45.680 --> 23:49.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: And almost with pride they say this, that there's no way to know where it is.
[23:49.560 --> 23:50.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's just, it's somewhere in the system.
[23:51.480 --> 24:03.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: We've asked them, we've asked them to, okay, since there's no paperwork, why don't you just take another bag of mail and deliver that and we'll just call it even, even though we have to pay for the issues and address them all over again.
[24:03.080 --> 24:04.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they don't even want to do that.
[24:04.560 --> 24:09.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: So it means we've got to shell out several thousand bucks and pay them again and hope they don't do the same thing all over again.
[24:10.820 --> 24:11.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's the post office for you.
[24:12.180 --> 24:13.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's governmental bureaucracy.
[24:14.160 --> 24:14.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: What about Mexico?
[24:15.140 --> 24:17.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you can also get to Mexico by land.
[24:17.340 --> 24:18.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: They did or didn't get lost.
[24:18.920 --> 24:19.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[24:19.480 --> 24:21.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: I haven't heard from our Mexican subscribers.
[24:21.420 --> 24:22.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think they did.
[24:22.540 --> 24:28.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think it was only things that had to deal with oceans, only issues that went overseas one way or another.
[24:29.560 --> 24:35.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you are an overseas subscriber and you did get your issue, well, it could be for one of two reasons.
[24:35.940 --> 24:44.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Either the issues are starting to show up or we already remailed it to you because you emailed us and asked for it or you're a new subscriber that got mailed it independently.
[24:44.400 --> 24:49.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: But let us know if you did receive it as part of the mailing in early January.
[24:49.760 --> 24:52.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Email subs, S-U-B-S, at 2600.com.
[24:52.780 --> 24:55.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: And otherwise, we're going to be sending the whole thing out all over again.
[24:55.800 --> 25:00.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you know anybody in the post office, anybody out there, high-ranking officials in the post post office, we're not going to let this go, okay?
[25:00.360 --> 25:02.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're going to hang on to this until the end.
[25:02.300 --> 25:05.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we're going to itemize how much we had to spend because of their incompetence.
[25:07.340 --> 25:09.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we don't forget about things like this.
[25:09.260 --> 25:18.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you know anybody though who's high up and wants to avoid this kind of, I don't know, conflict with us, you might want to have them contact us as well.
[25:20.000 --> 25:20.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, what else?
[25:22.060 --> 25:25.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: We have some rather weird stories here.
[25:25.520 --> 25:26.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: You hear about this one?
[25:26.320 --> 25:38.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Until recently, this woman up in Connecticut, Julie Amaro, has lived the quiet life of a small-town substitute teacher with little knowledge of computers and even less about porn.
[25:38.980 --> 25:46.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: But now, she's in the middle of a criminal case that hinges on the intricacies of both, and it could put her behind bars for up to 40 years.
[25:46.680 --> 25:52.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: She was convicted last month of exposing seventh-grade students to pornography on her classroom computer.
[25:52.560 --> 26:00.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: She contended the images were inadvertently thrust onto the screen by pornographers' unseen spyware and adware programs.
[26:00.640 --> 26:08.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Prosecutors dispute that, but her argument has made her a cause celeb among some technology experts who say what happened to her could happen to anyone.
[26:08.920 --> 26:13.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: She says before her class started, a teacher allowed her to email her husband.
[26:13.000 --> 26:21.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: She says she used the computer and went to the bathroom, returning to find the permanent teacher gone and two students viewing a website on hairstyle.
[26:21.920 --> 26:24.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Excuse me, I just gotta pick this up.
[26:24.840 --> 26:25.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hello?
[26:26.220 --> 26:29.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, this is Mr. Johnson calling from the office.
[26:29.320 --> 26:29.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sorry, I gotta take this.
[26:30.020 --> 26:30.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I'm sorry.
[26:30.640 --> 26:34.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Did you complete that thing about a month ago, that photocopier training?
[26:34.940 --> 26:35.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[26:36.480 --> 26:36.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[26:37.280 --> 26:40.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, so when was the last time you used the photocopier?
[26:40.820 --> 26:42.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was there last night.
[26:42.640 --> 26:44.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I don't know if you heard.
[26:44.320 --> 26:44.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: No.
[26:44.700 --> 26:49.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: You might have heard from Lenny, but there seems to be a problem with the photocopier.
[26:49.520 --> 26:52.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's spilling ink all over the floor.
[26:52.640 --> 26:53.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, no.
[26:53.320 --> 26:53.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Really?
[26:54.000 --> 26:54.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Did you...
[26:54.580 --> 26:55.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Were you aware of that?
[26:55.600 --> 26:56.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, not at all.
[26:57.100 --> 26:57.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: No.
[26:57.680 --> 27:02.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so there's a big puddle of black ink coming out of the photocopier.
[27:02.120 --> 27:03.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I think I'm gonna need you...
[27:03.460 --> 27:06.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna need you to get in here and fix that right away.
[27:06.240 --> 27:07.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: How soon...
[27:07.460 --> 27:07.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well...
[27:07.840 --> 27:10.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is Mr. Johnson calling from the office.
[27:10.740 --> 27:10.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[27:11.520 --> 27:15.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Did you complete that thing about a month ago, that photocopier training?
[27:15.580 --> 27:16.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Didn't you just ask me this?
[27:17.820 --> 27:18.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[27:18.400 --> 27:21.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, so when was the last time you used the photocopier?
[27:21.480 --> 27:23.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Listen, I already told you I used it last night.
[27:23.960 --> 27:25.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I don't know if you heard.
[27:26.000 --> 27:30.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: You might have heard from Lenny, but there seems to be a problem with the photocopier.
[27:30.180 --> 27:30.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't tell me.
[27:30.760 --> 27:32.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's spilling it all over the floor.
[27:32.360 --> 27:32.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is that what's happening?
[27:33.100 --> 27:33.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: All over the floor.
[27:33.500 --> 27:34.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, that's what I figured.
[27:35.100 --> 27:36.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: What would you like me to do?
[27:36.120 --> 27:36.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Were you aware of that?
[27:36.660 --> 27:37.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, I wasn't.
[27:37.260 --> 27:38.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: I already told you I wasn't aware of it.
[27:38.780 --> 27:43.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so there's a big puddle of black ink coming out of the photocopier.
[27:47.040 --> 27:48.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: How soon can you be here?
[27:48.740 --> 27:50.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm doing a radio show right now, okay?
[27:50.680 --> 27:55.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, yeah, that's not really going to work for us because as I said, there's ink coming out of the copier.
[27:55.760 --> 27:56.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: I heard that.
[27:56.580 --> 27:57.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to need you to come in.
[27:58.120 --> 27:59.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, if you can just...
[27:59.740 --> 28:04.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think the thing is you should just probably put down what you're doing and we're going to need you to come in right now.
[28:05.300 --> 28:06.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, fat chance.
[28:06.620 --> 28:07.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, we'll see you soon.
[28:07.780 --> 28:08.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, you won't.
[28:08.580 --> 28:10.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: We hope you enjoyed this Popularity Dialer call.
[28:11.080 --> 28:16.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you didn't, please visit popularitydialer.com to put your phone number on our do not make popular list.
[28:16.520 --> 28:21.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, so that, my friends, was a demonstration of something called the Popularity Dialer.
[28:21.820 --> 28:27.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Of course, this is the first time it ever actually screwed up on a call and played itself twice.
[28:27.920 --> 28:39.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: But if you're interested in getting out of a situation, all you need to do is go to popularitydialer.com, enter your phone number, enter a time that you'd like to be interrupted and you can have a conversation, all sorts of different conversations.
[28:39.560 --> 28:42.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: That was the return to the office call.
[28:42.480 --> 28:45.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: They also have a popularity call where somebody asks you if you want to hang out.
[28:45.940 --> 28:50.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: They have a female popularity call, an affirmation call where basically somebody just tells you how cool you are.
[28:51.520 --> 28:53.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then you also have a...
[28:53.100 --> 28:57.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's a new one called Cousin in Need Call, which maybe we'll try a different time.
[28:57.080 --> 28:58.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's kind of a funny one.
[28:59.700 --> 29:01.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, yeah, it gets you out of a lot of situations.
[29:01.460 --> 29:02.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: It works.
[29:02.340 --> 29:05.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: I have that in real life often enough, my office calling me.
[29:05.960 --> 29:08.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't need a computer to simulate that.
[29:08.360 --> 29:13.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I guess it says a lot if you need something really unpleasant like that to get you out of something even more unpleasant.
[29:13.420 --> 29:14.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: But that's the kind of lies we lead.
[29:15.240 --> 29:19.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, to get back to this poor person in Connecticut with her pornography charge.
[29:19.380 --> 29:22.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: So she left the students with the...
[29:23.380 --> 29:24.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: viewing the website.
[29:24.280 --> 29:27.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: She came back, chased the students away, and started class.
[29:27.300 --> 29:30.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Later, she says, pornographic images started popping up on the computer screen by themselves.
[29:31.080 --> 29:37.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: She says she tried to click the images off, but they kept returning and she was under strict orders not to turn the computer off.
[29:37.280 --> 29:40.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: I did everything I possibly could to keep them from seeing anything.
[29:42.180 --> 29:46.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, the prosecutor is saying that she actually clicked on graphic websites.
[29:46.760 --> 29:52.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Several students testified they saw pictures of naked men and women, including at least one image of a couple having oral sex.
[29:52.900 --> 30:03.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Computer consultant Herb Homer testified for the defense that the children had gone to an innocent website on hairstyles and were redirected to another hairstyle site that had pornographic links.
[30:03.460 --> 30:04.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: It could happen to anybody.
[30:05.400 --> 30:13.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: They say the images were caused by adware and spyware programs that are often secretly planted on computers by Internet businesses to track users' browsing habits.
[30:13.380 --> 30:17.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: They can generate pop-up ads, in some cases, pornographic ones.
[30:17.200 --> 30:23.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's absolutely plausible, said Art Schwartz, deputy director for the Center for Democracy and Technology.
[30:23.280 --> 30:24.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's a huge problem.
[30:25.200 --> 30:32.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: But many remain skeptical, including one of the jury members who said, so many kids noticed this going on, it was truly uncalled for.
[30:32.140 --> 30:33.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: I would not want my child in her classroom.
[30:33.940 --> 30:36.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: All she had to do was throw a coat over it or unplug it.
[30:36.660 --> 30:39.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: We figured even if there were pop-ups, would you sit there?
[30:40.100 --> 30:40.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[30:40.740 --> 30:41.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: What do you think?
[30:41.260 --> 30:44.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, first of all, not only is it plausible, but it's really, really common.
[30:44.680 --> 30:47.320]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, you know, that's kind of unfortunate, but whatever.
[30:47.320 --> 30:51.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, it doesn't seem like something that a teacher would do anyway.
[30:51.480 --> 30:53.280]  [SPEAKER_17]: Just, why would you risk that?
[30:53.360 --> 30:57.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: Why would a teacher in front of class decide, Well, okay, so there are other stories where maybe that's not the case, but anyway.
[30:58.160 --> 31:00.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: But you're saying there are teachers who go to pornographic websites in front of their whole class?
[31:00.940 --> 31:01.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it's happened before.
[31:02.100 --> 31:03.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe not pornographic websites.
[31:03.720 --> 31:05.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is this part of the curriculum in America?
[31:05.580 --> 31:06.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you go to a cool school.
[31:07.060 --> 31:18.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I've never heard of something like this, but wow, that's, it just seems, yeah, an incredibly dumb thing to do if you have a classroom full of people and you want to surf porn in front of them, maybe somebody is going to rat you out.
[31:19.020 --> 31:19.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's quite possible.
[31:20.160 --> 31:22.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think the point is that she wasn't doing it intentionally.
[31:22.380 --> 31:26.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, I guess, did she get convicted because she didn't know how to close it?
[31:26.760 --> 31:27.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: She didn't know how to turn the thing off?
[31:28.060 --> 31:33.200]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's not always so easy to close it, and if you're not really computer savvy, then it might be difficult.
[31:33.240 --> 31:36.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Also, I think we need to know a little bit more about how the actual computer was set up.
[31:36.840 --> 31:37.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Was it a laptop?
[31:37.580 --> 31:38.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Was it just a computer with a screen?
[31:39.060 --> 31:42.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Was it something that was piped into an overhead projector of some sort?
[31:42.840 --> 31:46.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: All sort, because throwing a coat over the computer won't do any good if it's set up like that.
[31:46.900 --> 31:48.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe she didn't know how to disconnect it.
[31:48.340 --> 31:49.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: And again...
[31:49.080 --> 31:50.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe it was the summer she didn't have a coat.
[31:50.980 --> 31:51.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's true, too.
[31:51.860 --> 31:52.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe she didn't have a coat.
[31:52.920 --> 31:54.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's all sorts of possibilities.
[31:54.420 --> 31:55.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: But here's the thing.
[31:55.960 --> 32:03.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Even if she went in there with the intention of clicking on a porn website in front of her entire class of seventh graders, 40 years in prison?
[32:04.220 --> 32:08.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, I think we live in kind of a crazy place to even consider something like that.
[32:09.120 --> 32:11.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Again, not good at your job.
[32:11.380 --> 32:12.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: You stop doing that job.
[32:12.660 --> 32:13.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do something else.
[32:13.600 --> 32:14.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Run the country.
[32:15.020 --> 32:15.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe you'd be better at that.
[32:16.060 --> 32:17.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: But 40 years in prison.
[32:17.820 --> 32:18.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is insane.
[32:18.700 --> 32:20.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Aren't they seeing the same thing in phys ed class anyway?
[32:20.720 --> 32:22.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think they're seeing that.
[32:22.920 --> 32:24.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: I would hope not.
[32:25.180 --> 32:25.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[32:26.320 --> 32:27.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Crazy times.
[32:27.200 --> 32:27.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Crazy times.
[32:29.520 --> 32:32.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Here's an interesting little fact toy that came out of England.
[32:32.600 --> 32:34.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Did you know that most people...
[32:34.320 --> 32:35.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Actually, Mike, I think you found this story.
[32:35.740 --> 32:38.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Most people don't know about the emergency phone number.
[32:38.880 --> 32:40.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm going to ask Jim again.
[32:40.380 --> 32:41.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Second chance you have to answer a question.
[32:41.880 --> 32:45.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: What is the emergency number not just in England but throughout Europe?
[32:46.600 --> 32:47.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: 999?
[32:47.380 --> 32:47.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: No.
[32:47.920 --> 32:48.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: No.
[32:48.080 --> 32:49.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's the number just in England.
[32:50.280 --> 32:51.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: That was the number just in England.
[32:51.460 --> 32:52.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: It still works.
[32:52.100 --> 32:55.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, 999 actually works from a GSM phone in this country.
[32:55.320 --> 32:56.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you dial 999, you'll get 911.
[32:57.120 --> 33:00.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: And 911 works from a GSM phone in Europe as well.
[33:00.200 --> 33:02.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: But the Europe-wide number is 112.
[33:03.220 --> 33:03.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: 112?
[33:04.860 --> 33:09.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: The number is meant to put callers in contact with emergency services in all 27 EU member states.
[33:09.920 --> 33:12.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: In many of them, though, it is reported to be unreliable.
[33:12.660 --> 33:18.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: But more than two-thirds, according to the BBC, more than two-thirds of Europeans are said to be unaware of its existence.
[33:20.140 --> 33:22.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: And most people in England don't know anything about it as well.
[33:24.060 --> 33:25.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Four and five in England, according to this article.
[33:25.800 --> 33:26.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Don't know about this.
[33:27.060 --> 33:31.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I know about this and I'm an American, so good lord, that's kind of weird.
[33:31.920 --> 33:33.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: You get into trouble a lot overseas.
[33:33.780 --> 33:33.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[33:35.380 --> 33:35.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, Bernie?
[33:36.440 --> 33:40.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think it's a good idea to have 112 as the emergency number in Europe.
[33:40.660 --> 33:43.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: It wouldn't work on our system here because it's configured.
[33:43.760 --> 33:55.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: But for people with a rotary dial cell phones like Phil from Make Magazine, it would take much less time to dial an emergency just 112 instead of the dial having to go all the way around so many times.
[33:55.460 --> 33:58.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: You do have a lot of people walking around with rotary cell phones, I know.
[33:58.420 --> 33:59.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, we know someone who does.
[33:59.920 --> 34:12.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's also a lot easier for animals to dial this when there's an emergency of sorts because all they have to do is flash a switch hook a couple of times and whammo, you're connected to the cops whereas dialing three nines or nine and two ones is a lot more difficult.
[34:12.120 --> 34:13.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: A lot of many animals can count to nine.
[34:14.000 --> 34:14.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's true.
[34:14.500 --> 34:15.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think any animals can count to nine.
[34:15.700 --> 34:16.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[34:16.460 --> 34:19.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Unless you want to count us as animals which I'm all in favor of.
[34:20.340 --> 34:22.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, here's something I just don't get.
[34:23.100 --> 34:24.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe somebody here can help me.
[34:24.520 --> 34:40.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: This guy in New Jersey, this assemblyman, John Bramick, he advanced a proposal for a law, for a bill that would have banned bicycle riders from using handheld cell phones.
[34:40.660 --> 34:44.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, you know how I feel about the law against cell phones in cars.
[34:44.020 --> 34:44.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think it's kind of silly.
[34:45.280 --> 34:51.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: But the barrage of criticism this guy got for proposing this law astounded me.
[34:51.320 --> 34:58.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, basically it was reported in the media as, wow, this is one of the dumbest things ever and he was basically red-faced with shame.
[34:58.160 --> 35:00.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: He says he's not going to submit any more bills for a long time.
[35:00.680 --> 35:12.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: It seems to me if you're riding around on a bicycle and one of your hands is being used to talking on a cell phone, that's a whole lot more dangerous than driving a car and doing the same thing because your sense of balance is all askew.
[35:12.540 --> 35:14.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I've seen many people doing this, particularly in Japan.
[35:15.400 --> 35:20.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: And wow, I've witnessed quite a few near-death experiences as a result.
[35:20.320 --> 35:22.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Why is this so universally condemned as silly?
[35:23.040 --> 35:23.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Anybody know?
[35:23.620 --> 35:30.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I agree with you that using one hand for a cell phone while riding a bike is something that's dangerous to the bike rider.
[35:30.180 --> 35:37.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I think it goes against the idea that many people have that if evolution does exist, we really shouldn't interfere with it.
[35:37.620 --> 35:41.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let the people who are of lesser mental ability die.
[35:42.300 --> 35:45.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that's a really profound statement from both you and Redbird.
[35:45.960 --> 35:48.320]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's the first thing I've ever said on this show that got applause.
[35:48.660 --> 35:49.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: I agree with that.
[35:49.980 --> 35:51.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm glad the two of you feel so strongly about that.
[35:51.940 --> 35:57.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: But over here in the civilized part of the room, I think we are going to try and look out for the betterness of society itself.
[35:59.760 --> 36:00.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: I agree.
[36:00.500 --> 36:06.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think the law is silly, but I think both laws are silly and common sense should dictate.
[36:06.360 --> 36:08.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, here's the difference between a car and a bicycle.
[36:08.620 --> 36:16.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: A car is a multi-ton piece of equipment hurtling at many, many miles per hour.
[36:16.280 --> 36:22.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: And the momentum of this car, which is, of course, mass times velocity, is very large.
[36:22.040 --> 36:28.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: So if it hits someone or something, it has a lot of potential to hurt them in a way that a bicycle doesn't.
[36:28.520 --> 36:32.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: The law, then, is to protect the person not in the vehicle.
[36:32.340 --> 36:32.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[36:32.620 --> 36:34.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, okay.
[36:34.420 --> 36:42.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: So then by that logic, a truck driver, then, should not be using a CB radio because he's much heavier and he's using one hand for the CB radio, right?
[36:42.440 --> 36:44.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Outlaws CB radios in 18-wheelers, huh?
[36:44.840 --> 36:45.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Fine with me.
[36:45.500 --> 36:46.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, but they don't do that either.
[36:47.520 --> 36:51.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Do you have anything on the other law, the law in New York City, the proposed law?
[36:51.640 --> 36:52.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Which one is that?
[36:52.580 --> 36:53.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: For pedestrians?
[36:53.700 --> 36:54.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Tell me about this one.
[36:54.760 --> 36:55.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, you don't know about this?
[36:56.180 --> 37:08.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: Some city councilman has proposed that pedestrians be banned from using cell phones or Walkman and similar ilk because they're oblivious to their surroundings and can be run over by traffic.
[37:09.220 --> 37:17.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: I just wanted to point out that, gee, if the pedestrian has his eyes open, he can see the walk sign and he's being run over by somebody who's making a turn.
[37:17.440 --> 37:18.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: You see, that I see is silly.
[37:18.720 --> 37:19.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: He has the right of way.
[37:19.220 --> 37:23.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's silly because you can still walk as a pedestrian and use a cell phone no problem at all.
[37:23.800 --> 37:25.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: He also wants to ban iPods.
[37:25.280 --> 37:29.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: You can't wear an iPod while walking down the street, which is silly.
[37:29.320 --> 37:36.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: I wish they'd ban iPods on subway trains because, believe it or not, they're so loud, even though they're pumping all the volume into their ears.
[37:36.220 --> 37:39.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Have you ever been on the L train, okay, on like a Friday or something like that?
[37:40.300 --> 37:49.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Everybody's pounding all this basic music into their heads, the basic types of techno and things, and you can hear it just throbbing even though nobody has an actual speaker.
[37:50.020 --> 37:50.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's so annoying.
[37:50.980 --> 37:55.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: I saw a t-shirt that applies to this and it said, if your head wasn't hollow, I wouldn't hear your music.
[37:58.080 --> 37:58.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[37:59.700 --> 38:00.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[38:00.520 --> 38:02.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: And here's something else sort of related to that.
[38:03.320 --> 38:09.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: More than a million people in England have signed an online petition against plans to introduce road charging in the UK.
[38:10.700 --> 38:14.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, this is kind of interesting and Mike is going to put you on the spot here because I know how you feel about this.
[38:14.580 --> 38:21.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: The petition, which is the most popular on the Downing Street website, calls for the scrapping of planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy.
[38:22.720 --> 38:29.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Number 10 has insisted, Number 10 Downing Street that is, has insisted that doing nothing would lead to a 25% increase in congestion in less than a decade.
[38:31.620 --> 38:36.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: But basically, what they are saying is that this is an invasion of your privacy.
[38:37.480 --> 38:39.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: People will be constantly monitored.
[38:39.740 --> 38:46.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I think one of the opposition people said, I think it's a very sad day when a democratic government wants to track your movements.
[38:46.300 --> 38:49.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's time for the government to listen to the people rather than dictate to the people.
[38:49.720 --> 38:51.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, what do you think about this?
[38:51.580 --> 38:59.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, yeah, obviously, it cuts down on, I guess, car travel if people have to pay a certain amount and are tracked.
[38:59.960 --> 39:01.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: But then again, people are being tracked.
[39:01.840 --> 39:02.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you know where they are.
[39:02.880 --> 39:03.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's Orwellian.
[39:03.540 --> 39:04.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: But they're already being tracked.
[39:05.080 --> 39:20.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, the UK has more cameras than any other country as far as I know, or specifically London, but this is where the supplies, I think, This is a step even more towards an Orwellian society where they know where you are at all times, and all the OCR software that they're using in conjunction with these cameras to track the license plates.
[39:20.840 --> 39:21.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, this already exists.
[39:22.040 --> 39:24.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: There's no, I don't think there's much extra tracking going on because of this.
[39:25.080 --> 39:26.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's just a revenue thing.
[39:26.680 --> 39:28.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: So you think we're already there?
[39:28.160 --> 39:28.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: I asked Mike.
[39:29.040 --> 39:30.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, there's two questions here.
[39:30.420 --> 39:37.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: One, the first question is like, how do we solve the traffic problems that are shutting down major cities?
[39:37.580 --> 39:43.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: You can't get around major cities during the day in a lot, you know, in a lot of places because there's too much traffic.
[39:43.540 --> 39:44.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: How do we solve that problem?
[39:44.840 --> 39:55.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: And one way to do it is to make it more expensive so that people who have not so much urgent business or what have you won't drive or it'll be cheaper to take the train so more people will do it.
[39:55.260 --> 39:57.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: That is one question.
[39:57.160 --> 40:02.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, the next question is, should we be following people around with cameras?
[40:02.480 --> 40:14.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: And what I think is possible, it must be possible, is to find a way to charge for driving without following people around, without retaining the data, without doing all this stuff.
[40:14.300 --> 40:17.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: But the problem is the people who are interested in this is a very small set.
[40:17.940 --> 40:20.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I mean, I have an idea on how to do that.
[40:20.520 --> 40:22.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: How about you double or maybe even triple the price of gas?
[40:23.100 --> 40:23.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Huh?
[40:24.300 --> 40:26.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: You could do that but it's not narrowly targeted enough.
[40:26.880 --> 40:28.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's targeted to people who are driving.
[40:29.000 --> 40:40.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: But the question is how do we prevent people from driving in, say, Manhattan, in lower Manhattan without affecting so much the people driving out of, you know, transit?
[40:41.060 --> 40:49.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm for stopping driving altogether but how do we first, a first step would be reducing driving in lower Manhattan only, you know?
[40:49.840 --> 40:50.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: How do we do that?
[40:50.660 --> 40:52.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: You can't really do that by raising the price of gas.
[40:52.580 --> 40:59.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: How about you raise the price of gas in a 100-mile vicinity around Manhattan but like in Iowa gas is like 10 cents a gallon or something.
[40:59.880 --> 41:00.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[41:00.420 --> 41:01.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: That doesn't solve the problem.
[41:02.280 --> 41:06.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: That addresses the concern of people driving in the city but not the country.
[41:06.940 --> 41:07.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: You see?
[41:07.360 --> 41:14.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: People driving in the country get cheaper gas and then you'd have to ship the gas by FedEx to New York in order to get around that system and that's probably illegal.
[41:14.420 --> 41:14.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: People will do.
[41:14.600 --> 41:15.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: They do that with cigarettes.
[41:15.180 --> 41:17.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think you can ship gasoline through FedEx.
[41:17.200 --> 41:17.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not Kevin.
[41:17.840 --> 41:26.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, what's interesting is that people are in such uproar over this in Britain even though they're being tracked by cameras every day but we already have a system exactly like this with E-ZPass.
[41:27.020 --> 41:29.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: Every movement, every time we go through a toll we're all being tracked.
[41:29.720 --> 41:30.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: But you have to go through the toll.
[41:30.860 --> 41:33.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think what they're proposing is to have it all over the place on all their highways.
[41:34.260 --> 41:43.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: We also have that here on certain highways they'll have little receivers embedded in the highway that will track where you are and how fast you're going and if you're going over the speed limit a state trooper will pull up.
[41:44.040 --> 41:47.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Has that actually happened where someone's gotten a speeding ticket through E-ZPass?
[41:47.640 --> 41:48.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Has that happened?
[41:48.940 --> 41:53.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: I know people who've gone too fast through the new don't stop E-ZPass things.
[41:53.460 --> 41:54.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, no.
[41:54.160 --> 41:56.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you speed through a toll booth that's different.
[41:56.280 --> 42:05.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm saying if you go through one E-ZPass checkpoint and then another and obviously the only way you could have gotten there was to have driven 80 miles an hour or has anybody gotten a ticket for that?
[42:05.560 --> 42:07.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not that I know but I'm sure it's happening.
[42:07.020 --> 42:07.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because that day is coming.
[42:07.660 --> 42:08.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: That day is coming.
[42:08.440 --> 42:14.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I think in England what they're proposing is something a lot more widespread than just certain highways like we have here.
[42:14.640 --> 42:16.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Basically I think it's every road every major road.
[42:16.940 --> 42:18.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Of course they have a lot less roads over there.
[42:19.040 --> 42:19.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: But yes, Jim.
[42:19.980 --> 42:25.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: What we're doing is combining two thoughts at once and consequently our thinking process is unclear.
[42:26.000 --> 42:34.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's congestion pricing which is we've discussed has to do with central London and lower Manhattan and then there's road use and the article is unclear.
[42:34.540 --> 42:39.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Maybe I just missed it as to whether this is congestion pricing or road use question.
[42:40.120 --> 42:47.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: If it's just road use there are plenty of ways to allow to bill the correct people for road use without being invasive of their privacy.
[42:47.960 --> 42:52.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can generally raise the price of gas.
[42:52.920 --> 43:00.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can have everybody get a permit to slap on their vehicle which doesn't necessarily have to be sold to a specific person.
[43:00.120 --> 43:05.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: You can just go into your auto shopping get the permit and they don't know what car it goes to.
[43:06.100 --> 43:10.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: Congestion pricing yes, would involve some invasions of privacy but it may be worth it.
[43:11.320 --> 43:11.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Bernie.
[43:11.720 --> 43:11.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: Emmanuel.
[43:12.320 --> 43:29.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, there's been such an uproar over this congestion pricing in London that apparently some people are so upset that they've been sending mail bombs letter bombs to some of the local government offices that managed this system.
[43:30.360 --> 43:38.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: Apparently they're kind of amateur mail bombs not using serious explosives just sort of like fireworks that they took the innards out of that sort of thing.
[43:38.760 --> 43:42.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: But it's a big Tony Blair is making noise about this and whatever.
[43:42.480 --> 43:51.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: So people are really upset about this or they're actually mailing letter bombs to the people responsible for managing these congestion pricing systems.
[43:51.160 --> 43:59.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: As far as E-ZPass in this country there's no reason at all E-ZPasses could not be sold for cash anonymously at like an auto parts store or anywhere else for that matter.
[44:00.800 --> 44:09.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: So if the government didn't intend on tracking people they wouldn't insist on having it be linked to your identity when you buy an E-ZPass.
[44:09.720 --> 44:15.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think the reason for that is because it's linked to a credit card and you have to get billed every time you use it.
[44:15.240 --> 44:16.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: So how could you sell that?
[44:16.460 --> 44:36.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: I would be happy to buy one put a couple hundred dollars down and get a couple hundred dollars worth of tolls on my E-ZPass and I can go just charge it up at any refilling station where you go to a you know you just pay and say you know just plunk it down just like a credit card you could buy these prepaid credit cards A prepaid E-ZPass okay that's an interesting idea let's see if that one
[44:36.220 --> 44:49.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: floods now Kevin you have something rather interesting that you discovered rather scandalous something that's sort of I can't say I discovered this actually comes from the felon over at Telephreak this is another reason why you shouldn't use Sprint he's not really a felon is he?
[44:49.900 --> 45:11.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: you shouldn't talk to felons there's no way to tell oh okay well anyways scary world out there on the Internet if you go to sprint.com and in their lower right hand corner there's the check upgrade eligibility link and all you do is you plug in a phone number and a ZIP Code and up comes the account holder name oh I believe Bernie is an account holder at Sprint Sprint the phone company people
[45:11.020 --> 45:22.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sprint the phone company so all you have to do is click on the box that says check availability and put in the person's phone number and what ZIP Code so you have to know the ZIP Code alright Well, it's not hard.
[45:22.560 --> 45:24.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then you'll get their...
[45:24.560 --> 45:25.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Their account holder full name.
[45:26.100 --> 45:26.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: The full name.
[45:27.360 --> 45:27.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[45:27.760 --> 45:32.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, how many times does this happen, though, where you know the person's phone number and you know the ZIP Code, but you don't know their name?
[45:32.920 --> 45:34.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, but you could guess.
[45:34.180 --> 45:37.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, if you know that my area code is 646, you could guess.
[45:38.140 --> 45:42.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's probably only a few dozen area codes, a few dozen ZIP Codes I could possibly live in.
[45:42.920 --> 45:43.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's true.
[45:43.400 --> 45:43.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's true.
[45:43.900 --> 45:48.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Assuming it doesn't time out after or just allow you three guesses or something like that.
[45:48.380 --> 45:54.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: But what I'm asking is, how many times have you gotten the phone number and you basically...
[45:54.600 --> 45:58.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're saying if you got a phone call from somebody in 646, it has to be somebody...
[45:58.460 --> 45:59.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: I guess it is somebody in New York.
[45:59.720 --> 46:00.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean...
[46:00.160 --> 46:01.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: They could build it anywhere in the country.
[46:01.380 --> 46:03.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, they could move, but people...
[46:03.060 --> 46:05.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: The odds are good that it's somewhere in New York.
[46:05.780 --> 46:07.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: But then again, you'd have to know that it was Sprint as well.
[46:08.040 --> 46:08.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: How would you know that?
[46:08.860 --> 46:09.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: You just try.
[46:09.960 --> 46:11.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: You try 10, 15 times.
[46:11.580 --> 46:14.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: If it doesn't work, you're pretty sure they don't have a Sprint phone.
[46:14.480 --> 46:16.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's just another resource that you have.
[46:16.320 --> 46:16.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, okay.
[46:16.820 --> 46:20.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, we're looking at this, I think, in the opposite way that it's being presented here.
[46:20.400 --> 46:21.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're looking at it as a resource.
[46:21.460 --> 46:24.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're looking at it as a privacy invasion of some sort or a massive security hole.
[46:24.520 --> 46:31.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: What's interesting is Sprint actually disbanded this two years ago because of privacy concerns.
[46:31.160 --> 46:32.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: And now they're bringing it back.
[46:33.080 --> 46:33.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[46:33.720 --> 46:33.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ooh.
[46:34.060 --> 46:34.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Why?
[46:34.600 --> 46:34.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[46:34.880 --> 46:43.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, this also reminds me of things like MCIs, friends and family, where they basically list all your phone numbers of friends if you gave them a minimal amount of information.
[46:43.340 --> 46:44.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think phone number and ZIP Code was all they needed.
[46:45.720 --> 46:47.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bernie, how do you feel about this, being a Sprint customer?
[46:48.320 --> 46:55.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm not very happy that Sprint is making my information available to anybody who wants to spend five minutes to make some guesses.
[46:55.860 --> 46:56.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[46:56.160 --> 46:57.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: Not a good thing.
[46:57.840 --> 46:58.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: No.
[46:58.900 --> 47:03.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Although, of course, lots of times if you call a landline, your name will show up from a cell phone.
[47:04.040 --> 47:06.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know if Sprint is one of the companies doing this.
[47:07.500 --> 47:08.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not yet.
[47:08.280 --> 47:08.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not yet?
[47:08.840 --> 47:09.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[47:09.380 --> 47:10.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I'm pretty sure Verizon is.
[47:10.980 --> 47:11.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm pretty sure they are.
[47:11.920 --> 47:12.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[47:12.480 --> 47:17.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, uh, nice, uh, nice bit of privacy, uh, lost there.
[47:17.740 --> 47:19.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, we'll be taking phone calls.
[47:19.400 --> 47:21.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: 212-209-2900.
[47:22.320 --> 47:23.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, first, a couple of letters.
[47:24.480 --> 47:26.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: oth@2600.com is our phone number.
[47:27.560 --> 47:27.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um...
[47:27.920 --> 47:28.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's our phone number.
[47:28.740 --> 47:29.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wouldn't it be our email address?
[47:29.880 --> 47:30.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[47:30.060 --> 47:30.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was just testing you.
[47:30.920 --> 47:32.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's not our phone number.
[47:32.300 --> 47:32.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's our...
[47:32.720 --> 47:33.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Look, I'm...
[47:33.380 --> 47:35.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've got these crazy headphones linked to my head, all right?
[47:35.640 --> 47:36.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's draining the blood.
[47:38.180 --> 47:38.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um...
[47:38.540 --> 47:38.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[47:38.940 --> 47:40.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: A couple of letters for Jim, actually.
[47:40.540 --> 47:40.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, really?
[47:43.220 --> 47:44.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, sounds better, right?
[47:44.760 --> 47:47.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Could you please bring up hacker-related chemistry stories?
[47:47.860 --> 47:49.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's awesome that you're a chemist.
[47:49.440 --> 47:51.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Why are you not talking about it more?
[47:51.300 --> 47:51.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Signed, Mike.
[47:52.080 --> 47:53.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: And not this Mike, a different Mike.
[47:53.920 --> 47:54.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is it a Mike I know?
[47:55.180 --> 47:55.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I don't know.
[47:55.960 --> 47:56.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: All I have here is Mike.
[47:57.160 --> 47:57.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, all right.
[47:57.980 --> 48:00.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'll, I'll come up with some in the weeks and months ahead.
[48:00.260 --> 48:00.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[48:00.820 --> 48:01.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: And here's something else.
[48:01.780 --> 48:02.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: I have a comment for Jim.
[48:02.980 --> 48:09.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: I noticed there are emergency exits at the non-booth entrances in many train stations, subway stations.
[48:09.240 --> 48:16.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: I see people wait for the train to come and either ask someone to open the gate so they can get in for free, or sometimes people just exit using the gate.
[48:16.900 --> 48:19.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: The alarm will sometimes go off, and sometimes it will not.
[48:20.420 --> 48:25.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Also, another tactic I have seen is when there are cops at a station with a table set up to search people's bags.
[48:25.160 --> 48:27.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've seen people jump the turnstile, and the cops do nothing.
[48:27.280 --> 48:27.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[48:27.560 --> 48:28.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Those are some brave people there.
[48:28.920 --> 48:30.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've seen this many times.
[48:30.320 --> 48:32.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've even looked, and there were no undercover cops stopping these people.
[48:33.260 --> 48:38.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: I, however, at one time or another have been asked by a cop in the subway if the MetroCard I was using was mine.
[48:38.440 --> 48:42.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't ask, I didn't know why, but maybe you can speculate.
[48:42.620 --> 48:43.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, okay.
[48:43.440 --> 48:49.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: The first part of that about people fair beating, please write the TA and complain about it.
[48:49.280 --> 48:59.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: But a specific instance will not get cops there, but at least they'll let you, they'll know that somebody actually cares that somebody's getting away with that crap for free.
[48:59.720 --> 49:02.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, wait, now, I don't care about the fair beating.
[49:02.200 --> 49:02.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not my problem.
[49:03.100 --> 49:09.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: But the people going out the emergency exit, it makes this really loud noise, and it's not an emergency.
[49:09.020 --> 49:11.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: It happens every day at the subway station.
[49:11.280 --> 49:14.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: I go to work, because the only other option is these stupid things.
[49:14.500 --> 49:16.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm making a gesture that the people on the radio can't see.
[49:16.820 --> 49:17.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: High exit turnstiles.
[49:17.960 --> 49:20.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're not high, whatever, they're not high capacity.
[49:20.600 --> 49:21.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're very slow.
[49:21.400 --> 49:23.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: People don't like them, so they go out the emergency exit.
[49:23.780 --> 49:26.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is a problem that needs to be stopped, that noise.
[49:26.720 --> 49:28.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Why don't they just make the exit into...
[49:28.380 --> 49:39.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're actually reopening some booths that have been closed for nearly a decade in order to watch people exiting, in order to open up the low turnstiles to let them exit faster.
[49:39.480 --> 49:41.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I mean, it seems like this wasn't a problem a few years ago.
[49:42.040 --> 49:43.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're making it more difficult.
[49:43.360 --> 49:49.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, now the fire department has said that the high exits are too slow, and you have to have emergency exits so people can get out fast in case of an emergency.
[49:50.020 --> 49:52.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: What was the last question about...
[49:52.320 --> 49:53.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Whether or not...
[49:54.240 --> 49:56.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Why someone would be asked if the metric card they're using is theirs.
[49:56.940 --> 50:00.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, that's kind of peculiar, because what are you going to do?
[50:00.240 --> 50:01.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: Say, no, it's not mine?
[50:01.700 --> 50:02.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, of course it's yours.
[50:03.560 --> 50:07.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: It obviously is some sort of trick question by the cop for some reason.
[50:07.300 --> 50:08.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: They're worried about student and reduced fare cards.
[50:08.980 --> 50:10.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, that's the only thing.
[50:10.040 --> 50:14.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: If what you're holding is a student or reduced fare card, either citizen or handicapped.
[50:15.200 --> 50:17.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, also, I've donated to the station.
[50:17.200 --> 50:18.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: I still did not get my TV-B-Gone.
[50:19.440 --> 50:21.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, Jason from Queens.
[50:21.300 --> 50:25.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: If this is the current fundraiser, the one that just ended, it's going to take a little while, a few weeks.
[50:25.680 --> 50:42.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: If it was the one before that, if anybody has donated to the fundraiser from October and has not received either their TV-B-Gones, any premiums we were offering, or their Off The Hook t-shirts for every pledge of 25 and above, let us know, because we've given all this stuff to the station that should have been sent out.
[50:42.540 --> 50:44.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: oth@2600.com, let us know.
[50:44.760 --> 50:46.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: You should have gotten everything from that fundraiser.
[50:46.580 --> 50:48.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: This next one, we're still making the things.
[50:49.520 --> 50:52.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: $11,000 in a single hour is a lot of work for us.
[50:53.840 --> 50:55.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: And finally, I love the show.
[50:55.760 --> 50:56.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm a subscriber to the magazine.
[50:56.980 --> 51:02.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm just pleading that next time WBAI does a pledge drive, you would offer the promos on the 2600.com site and not just during the show.
[51:02.980 --> 51:03.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Signed, Florian.
[51:03.620 --> 51:14.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, the problem with that is we were offering something at a real cut rate, something that we normally offer for $400, we were offering for $200, and it wouldn't make any sense for us to undercut ourselves on our own website.
[51:14.740 --> 51:19.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: And plus, we try to publicize the radio show as much as possible so people listen live.
[51:19.620 --> 51:21.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's what it's for us, for people who listen to the radio show.
[51:21.800 --> 51:23.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: So we'll try to publicize it more next time.
[51:24.240 --> 51:26.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for your letters, oth@2600.com.
[51:26.860 --> 51:28.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's try and take some phone calls.
[51:28.500 --> 51:33.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's 212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[51:33.520 --> 51:37.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's take the first call, which I knew was going to be a dial tone because it hopped over here.
[51:38.120 --> 51:39.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is the first call.
[51:39.100 --> 51:39.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[51:39.440 --> 51:39.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the air.
[51:40.220 --> 51:40.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi.
[51:40.680 --> 51:42.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: I have a similar complaint.
[51:42.940 --> 51:44.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess I did get...
[51:44.400 --> 51:47.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: I pledged in the drive before the last one.
[51:47.920 --> 51:48.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mm-hmm.
[51:48.280 --> 51:52.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: I got the TV-B-Gone, which I'm thrilled with, but I didn't get the T-shirt.
[51:52.400 --> 51:53.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: You didn't get the T-shirt.
[51:53.420 --> 51:57.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, we delivered a whole bunch of them to the radio station, so we're going to ask why that is.
[51:57.700 --> 52:01.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'd like to know from people who have pledged if they've received their T-shirts.
[52:01.440 --> 52:05.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: They certainly should have by now, and we'll definitely look into this.
[52:05.200 --> 52:06.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: I did have a question about the TV-B-Gone.
[52:07.480 --> 52:12.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: The info on the card is a little non-conclusive, I guess.
[52:12.620 --> 52:23.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't fully pick up all the information in terms of turning stuff back on again, or the range, or stuff like that I haven't been able to do, but everything else, like turning stuff off has been very thrilling.
[52:24.180 --> 52:28.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: You can go to tvbegone.com and get more information.
[52:29.160 --> 52:30.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's a pretty entertaining website, too.
[52:30.800 --> 52:30.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Great.
[52:31.140 --> 52:31.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you very much.
[52:32.160 --> 52:32.380]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[52:32.520 --> 52:38.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: And email us with your contact info, so we can get that shirt out to you, oth@2600.com.
[52:38.860 --> 52:43.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is there a way that you can just tick me offline and I can tell you that information rather than emailing it?
[52:43.840 --> 52:44.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Not really.
[52:44.440 --> 52:49.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it's more difficult than you would believe, believe it or not.
[52:50.060 --> 52:50.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[52:50.500 --> 52:50.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's no problem.
[52:51.140 --> 52:52.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll figure a way to do that.
[52:52.260 --> 52:52.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[52:52.620 --> 52:52.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks.
[52:52.960 --> 52:53.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.
[52:53.300 --> 52:53.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Bye.
[52:53.520 --> 52:53.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for calling.
[52:53.920 --> 52:55.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: This happens when we're preempted.
[52:55.480 --> 52:56.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: We get no calls.
[52:56.620 --> 52:56.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Look at this.
[52:57.020 --> 52:57.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's dead.
[52:57.700 --> 52:58.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's one call.
[52:58.420 --> 53:00.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm not going to pick up until we get three calls.
[53:00.760 --> 53:01.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're not asking for money.
[53:01.600 --> 53:02.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're asking for phone calls.
[53:03.220 --> 53:04.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: We were doing better when we were asking for money.
[53:04.840 --> 53:06.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: 212-209-2900.
[53:06.380 --> 53:07.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: We can only take one at a time.
[53:08.100 --> 53:09.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: We can only take one at a time.
[53:14.440 --> 53:15.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: 212-209-2900.
[53:15.780 --> 53:17.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're asking to hear your opinion.
[53:17.260 --> 53:17.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: There.
[53:17.460 --> 53:18.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now it's four.
[53:18.440 --> 53:18.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[53:18.700 --> 53:19.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Here we go.
[53:19.320 --> 53:19.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[53:20.100 --> 53:20.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on Off The Hook.
[53:21.580 --> 53:22.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: How are you doing?
[53:22.380 --> 53:22.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good.
[53:22.540 --> 53:22.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: How are you?
[53:23.200 --> 53:23.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hey.
[53:23.560 --> 53:26.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: By the way, needing more phone calls, I really disagree.
[53:26.620 --> 53:30.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I agree with your fellow co-host there who said this is not a marathon.
[53:30.560 --> 53:33.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you get one call, that's worthy of being on the air.
[53:34.000 --> 53:37.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: You don't need to get two or ten calls before anybody is deemed worthy.
[53:37.540 --> 53:38.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Am I right about that?
[53:38.800 --> 53:39.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe.
[53:39.280 --> 53:40.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: But let's get on to something relevant.
[53:40.840 --> 53:40.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[53:41.060 --> 53:44.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just wanted to say, I talked to this man, Eric, yesterday.
[53:44.220 --> 53:49.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm Stoneybrook Selden about the Nicole case and Nicole's death.
[53:49.760 --> 53:52.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I was just making the point about that she was...
[53:52.360 --> 53:52.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[53:52.580 --> 53:54.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: This has got nothing to do with this show.
[53:54.200 --> 53:56.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Call that show to make the comments on that show.
[53:56.480 --> 53:56.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: My God.
[53:57.320 --> 53:57.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[53:57.840 --> 53:58.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the radio.
[54:00.040 --> 54:00.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello?
[54:00.580 --> 54:00.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead.
[54:01.380 --> 54:02.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is that WBAI?
[54:02.540 --> 54:03.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is WBAI.
[54:03.280 --> 54:04.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're live on the air.
[54:05.620 --> 54:06.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[54:06.800 --> 54:07.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Please say something relevant.
[54:09.380 --> 54:09.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[54:09.840 --> 54:10.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: You had your chance.
[54:10.700 --> 54:10.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sorry.
[54:11.100 --> 54:11.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[54:11.560 --> 54:12.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the radio.
[54:13.320 --> 54:13.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Live.
[54:14.700 --> 54:15.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: Live.
[54:15.380 --> 54:15.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: How you doing?
[54:16.340 --> 54:16.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: On the air.
[54:17.120 --> 54:17.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, great.
[54:18.080 --> 54:19.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: You sound surprised.
[54:19.580 --> 54:20.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I do.
[54:20.200 --> 54:22.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because you were talking to somebody else a second ago.
[54:22.320 --> 54:23.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I was.
[54:23.060 --> 54:24.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: But they weren't being relevant, so I had to move on.
[54:24.900 --> 54:25.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: What's on your mind?
[54:26.280 --> 54:32.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: I just got something in the mail last week, or the other day, that I thought you guys might be interested in.
[54:32.480 --> 54:32.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[54:32.720 --> 54:44.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: It is a form that says I won the lottery, and I got a check from GEICO for $3,800.90.
[54:45.440 --> 54:46.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: I see.
[54:46.220 --> 54:50.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: And don't tell me that's the exact amount that you would save by choosing GEICO over another insurance company, right?
[54:51.360 --> 54:53.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm driving around in an uninsured car.
[54:55.660 --> 54:58.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not sure you want to be telling us that, but...
[54:59.160 --> 55:01.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because you don't know who I am.
[55:01.920 --> 55:03.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a real check from GEICO.
[55:03.920 --> 55:04.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: A real check from GEICO?
[55:05.060 --> 55:05.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[55:05.360 --> 55:08.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the lottery is from Ontario.
[55:09.320 --> 55:09.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[55:09.960 --> 55:10.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[55:10.380 --> 55:11.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: So this is a whole big scam.
[55:12.160 --> 55:13.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've been checking it out on the Internet.
[55:13.720 --> 55:14.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[55:14.460 --> 55:17.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: And people are actually cashing these damn checks.
[55:17.820 --> 55:19.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: And what are they agreeing to by cashing them?
[55:19.880 --> 55:26.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, what you have to do, it says on this particular one, apparently they're all different.
[55:26.400 --> 55:33.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because what I found on the Internet is numerous different companies...
[55:33.800 --> 55:35.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: What does it say on the back of the check?
[55:35.780 --> 55:38.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: But on the back of the check, it's got the watermark.
[55:39.100 --> 55:39.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's got everything.
[55:40.060 --> 55:43.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: But they have an agreement that you're signing when you endorse it.
[55:44.020 --> 55:45.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: There is no agreement.
[55:45.500 --> 55:45.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[55:45.880 --> 55:46.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Can you tell us very quickly?
[55:46.860 --> 55:47.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because we have to move on.
[55:48.000 --> 55:48.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: What is the scam?
[55:49.420 --> 55:49.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, okay.
[55:49.960 --> 55:52.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, the scam is you won this lottery.
[55:52.020 --> 56:03.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: And if you cash this check and call this number, the check is good for processing the fee to win the $250,000 that you just won.
[56:03.740 --> 56:04.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: And how much is that fee?
[56:05.560 --> 56:06.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it doesn't say...
[56:06.940 --> 56:07.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Probably $3,800.
[56:08.860 --> 56:11.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I would assume it's at least $3,000.
[56:11.960 --> 56:12.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[56:12.120 --> 56:15.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: And what happens is you deposit the bogus check.
[56:15.960 --> 56:19.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you send them a valid check for the $3,000.
[56:19.460 --> 56:20.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: They get away with that.
[56:20.700 --> 56:20.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[56:21.060 --> 56:21.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: And ding!
[56:22.800 --> 56:24.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, watch out for those.
[56:24.260 --> 56:24.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[56:24.480 --> 56:25.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: It came in the mail.
[56:25.600 --> 56:26.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: It didn't come in the Internet.
[56:26.680 --> 56:28.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: But it's my Internet name.
[56:28.680 --> 56:28.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mm-hmm.
[56:29.320 --> 56:31.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: So they found me on the Internet.
[56:31.380 --> 56:31.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[56:31.900 --> 56:32.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, listen.
[56:32.300 --> 56:33.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for that info.
[56:33.580 --> 56:35.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's kind of crazy.
[56:35.400 --> 56:35.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[56:35.620 --> 56:37.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's see if we can fit in one more really quickly.
[56:37.940 --> 56:38.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[56:38.280 --> 56:39.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on off the hook.
[56:40.120 --> 56:40.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello?
[56:40.480 --> 56:40.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Speak up.
[56:40.820 --> 56:41.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, go ahead.
[56:41.160 --> 56:43.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, I'd like to tell you about Verizon has a new scam going on.
[56:44.200 --> 56:45.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Verizon has a new scam?
[56:45.260 --> 56:45.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[56:45.460 --> 56:51.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: On your bill, if you have sensible minutes, they charge $1.99 a month for regional calls in upstate New York.
[56:51.720 --> 56:51.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[56:52.480 --> 56:53.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's $0.09 a minute.
[56:54.060 --> 56:56.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: But if you do away with it, it's like $0.14 a minute.
[56:56.980 --> 56:59.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: I told the guy, I hardly make any calls upstate.
[56:59.560 --> 57:00.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Why are you charging me $2 a month?
[57:01.040 --> 57:01.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Plus tax.
[57:02.640 --> 57:04.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: So people should look at their bills and...
[57:04.360 --> 57:06.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Get rid of sensible minutes because it's not so sensible.
[57:06.900 --> 57:08.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for that info.
[57:08.280 --> 57:10.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: And thanks to everybody who called in.
[57:10.160 --> 57:10.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Write to us.
[57:10.600 --> 57:13.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: oth@2600.com is our phone number.
[57:14.860 --> 57:17.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: And why is the theme for the computer show coming up?
[57:17.180 --> 57:17.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because I have that up.
[57:18.080 --> 57:18.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[57:19.240 --> 57:19.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[57:19.760 --> 57:21.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll be back again next week with another Action Packed Edition.
[57:21.960 --> 57:22.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: See you then.
[57:22.520 --> 57:22.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good night.