Off The Hook - 2008-05-14

[00:00.000 --> 00:12.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: The indigenous leaders at the conference said that Europe has a historical depth on to Latin America, and the relationship between both continents will only get worse with the approval of new commercial agreements.
[00:12.540 --> 00:15.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: For Free Speech Radio News, I'm Pamela Cueva with Alfredo Cuadros.
[00:24.910 --> 00:27.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: You've been listening to Free Speech Radio News.
[00:27.670 --> 00:31.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: From Pacifica Station KPFK in L.A., I'm Aura Bogado.
[00:35.780 --> 00:39.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI in New York, where it's 7 o'clock.
[00:39.900 --> 00:41.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Time for Off The Hook.
[00:43.120 --> 00:44.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Really, it's time for Off The Hook.
[00:44.920 --> 00:47.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: And for the CD player not to work, as usual.
[00:47.560 --> 00:47.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Here we go.
[00:52.660 --> 00:57.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:58.100 --> 01:02.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[01:03.300 --> 01:07.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: We couldn't get much worse, we would.
[01:08.200 --> 01:10.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bum Diddly Bum, but the best is back the worst.
[01:11.480 --> 01:13.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: I hope that's understood.
[01:13.540 --> 01:14.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bum Diddly Bum!
[02:15.610 --> 02:17.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: And give it to a ride, the program is Off The Hook.
[02:19.110 --> 02:20.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: May I have a seat here with you.
[02:21.490 --> 02:25.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: As the theme stumbles to the end, the CD player that doesn't like CDs.
[02:27.010 --> 02:34.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: We've got a full studio tonight with all kinds of special guests popping in, and regular cast members as well.
[02:34.830 --> 02:36.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's start on the other side of the room with not Kevin.
[02:36.830 --> 02:37.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hello.
[02:40.390 --> 02:41.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[02:41.230 --> 02:41.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: You want to do it, or what?
[02:42.570 --> 02:42.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Eh.
[02:43.170 --> 02:43.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: No?
[02:43.450 --> 02:43.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go for it.
[02:44.070 --> 02:44.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[02:45.030 --> 02:46.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Redbird is changing his name.
[02:46.690 --> 02:47.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not changing my name.
[02:47.750 --> 02:49.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm using the real name.
[02:49.310 --> 02:49.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, go ahead.
[02:49.970 --> 02:50.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go ahead.
[02:50.590 --> 02:56.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Get rid of the name Redbird, which we've come to know and love you as, and replace it with something even better.
[02:57.430 --> 02:58.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: What would you like to be called from now on?
[02:59.570 --> 03:03.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, I'm just going to say good evening and allow you to decide when this transition should happen.
[03:04.010 --> 03:07.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: You have to have a name there, or we're going to make one up for you, and it won't be as nice as Redbird.
[03:07.930 --> 03:08.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[03:08.210 --> 03:09.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's stick with Redbird then.
[03:10.030 --> 03:10.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: I can't believe...
[03:10.730 --> 03:11.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're giving me this look, like...
[03:11.990 --> 03:13.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: I can't believe you made me do this.
[03:13.650 --> 03:16.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right before the show, tearfully, like, I can't be Redbird anymore.
[03:16.550 --> 03:20.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: People are mocking me on the street, and now I have to back up and pretend...
[03:20.150 --> 03:20.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, fine.
[03:20.770 --> 03:21.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're Redbird.
[03:21.430 --> 03:21.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're Redbird forever.
[03:22.110 --> 03:22.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[03:22.550 --> 03:22.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[03:24.170 --> 03:24.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hi, Mike.
[03:24.970 --> 03:25.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hi.
[03:25.390 --> 03:26.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Aren't you glad you don't have a handle?
[03:26.870 --> 03:27.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's pretty nice.
[03:28.870 --> 03:30.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: And is that Mitch Altman?
[03:30.730 --> 03:31.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: It is Mitch Altman.
[03:31.690 --> 03:33.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: It is, right in the studio with you.
[03:33.990 --> 03:34.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wow.
[03:34.610 --> 03:35.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Where did you just come from?
[03:35.810 --> 03:36.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: I just came from Philly.
[03:37.070 --> 03:42.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: I did a workshop on brain machines at the Hacktory, a new hackerspace over there.
[03:42.230 --> 03:43.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: The Hacktory in Philadelphia.
[03:44.450 --> 03:45.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's a really nice space.
[03:45.770 --> 03:47.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: They got it going really fast.
[03:47.330 --> 03:49.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: And a non-profit gave them some space.
[03:49.830 --> 03:51.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: And they've been doing a lot of cool stuff over there.
[03:52.150 --> 03:57.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: And next, moving further and further away from the microphone, next to you is Phil from Make Magazine.
[03:57.570 --> 03:58.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hey, thanks for having me.
[03:58.350 --> 03:58.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: How are you doing?
[03:59.070 --> 03:59.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Great.
[03:59.350 --> 03:59.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: What have you been up to?
[03:59.970 --> 04:03.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: You just got back from the Maker Faire and what did you have, like a million people there?
[04:03.130 --> 04:05.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, we had all six billion people on planet Earth.
[04:05.990 --> 04:06.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: It was a fact.
[04:06.590 --> 04:08.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, about 60,000 people clogged up the highway.
[04:09.170 --> 04:10.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: 60,000 people?
[04:10.390 --> 04:12.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, so it's bigger than Burning Man now.
[04:12.370 --> 04:13.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Great Christ, how did you do that?
[04:13.750 --> 04:15.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: And how can we do that for HOPE?
[04:15.570 --> 04:22.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, I think the secret is just finding a good place and a good time for people to share what they're building.
[04:23.250 --> 04:27.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: And from what I understand about what's going on at HOPE, I think you might be lucky.
[04:27.290 --> 04:28.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: You may have 60,000 people.
[04:28.590 --> 04:29.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: You may have a bigger problem than you think.
[04:29.690 --> 04:31.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, you know, we can't handle 60,000 people.
[04:31.570 --> 04:32.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think you were outside, right?
[04:32.910 --> 04:36.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, we were outside and we couldn't even handle 60,000.
[04:36.230 --> 04:37.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, that's a stadium.
[04:38.150 --> 04:39.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's more than the Mets get, ever.
[04:39.950 --> 04:40.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[04:40.130 --> 04:41.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, wow.
[04:41.910 --> 04:42.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[04:42.370 --> 04:43.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, congratulations.
[04:43.270 --> 04:44.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: How many do you have for Austin?
[04:44.590 --> 04:45.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: Austin was 20,000.
[04:46.210 --> 04:47.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: And it seems like each one that we do doubles.
[04:48.050 --> 04:49.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: So the first year at Maker Faire was 20,000.
[04:49.870 --> 04:50.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, that's triple.
[04:50.750 --> 04:51.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: Second year was 40,000.
[04:52.070 --> 04:52.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, you mean in San Francisco?
[04:52.930 --> 04:53.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[04:53.170 --> 04:53.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[04:53.490 --> 04:57.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, so there seems to be some type of math formula that you can apply.
[04:57.310 --> 05:03.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, at this rate, in a few years, the cities will be depleted from people because they're going to Maker Faire.
[05:03.850 --> 05:04.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, that's fine.
[05:04.450 --> 05:09.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: But, you know, 20,000 people at Maker Faire did not seem as dense as 2,500 people at HOPE.
[05:09.670 --> 05:10.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: So it's the atmosphere.
[05:10.790 --> 05:12.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's because, like I said, we're inside.
[05:12.230 --> 05:12.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[05:12.350 --> 05:16.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we have walls and they're outside and they can just keep expanding into the countryside when necessary.
[05:17.010 --> 05:17.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're fun events.
[05:17.830 --> 05:18.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[05:18.210 --> 05:20.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: But we won't have 60,000 people.
[05:20.290 --> 05:24.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm pretty sure I can say that because I think the fire marshal would be livid if we did.
[05:25.030 --> 05:28.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: But we can have a few thousand anyway and that's really up to the folks out there.
[05:29.190 --> 05:32.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have all kinds of interesting things going on for the HOPE conference coming up in July.
[05:32.490 --> 05:36.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: In fact, we're going to be talking about one of them today, just one of them, well, maybe a few.
[05:37.170 --> 05:40.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: But there are so many, so many cool things that are going to be going on.
[05:40.430 --> 05:42.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: But this is historic in nature.
[05:42.670 --> 05:44.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I'm not finished introducing people yet.
[05:44.090 --> 05:44.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is there anybody else hiding?
[05:45.230 --> 05:46.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, we've got everybody in the room.
[05:46.710 --> 05:48.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Down in Philadelphia is Bernie S.
[05:49.110 --> 05:50.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: Greetings from Philadelphia.
[05:50.430 --> 05:50.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[05:51.450 --> 05:51.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hi, Bernie.
[05:51.970 --> 05:55.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: I forgot about the lexicon because you're on the other side of the room and I started with not Kevin.
[05:56.430 --> 05:56.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hello.
[05:57.390 --> 05:58.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, now we've got everybody, right?
[05:58.970 --> 05:59.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, we didn't get everybody.
[05:59.950 --> 06:00.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have another guest.
[06:00.830 --> 06:01.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sorry.
[06:01.390 --> 06:02.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm all mixed up today.
[06:02.490 --> 06:04.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have Derevin joining us.
[06:04.830 --> 06:04.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hi.
[06:05.070 --> 06:05.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: How are you doing?
[06:06.130 --> 06:08.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, yeah, we've got a full cast of characters.
[06:08.930 --> 06:11.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: And Bernie, you know, you still have that lousy phone that echoes when we talk.
[06:11.690 --> 06:14.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is the new spring phone I have.
[06:14.850 --> 06:17.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: Unfortunately, it's far worse than the 10-year-old one I had.
[06:17.990 --> 06:19.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, we're going to have to have a discussion about that.
[06:21.110 --> 06:26.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, we got a memorandum saying that people cannot be on phone lines.
[06:26.630 --> 06:28.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hosts of programs cannot be on phone lines.
[06:28.610 --> 06:34.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, I don't know if Bernie counts as a host or what exactly, but we might have to be careful.
[06:35.130 --> 06:37.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: We got a memo saying we can't have hosts on the phone line.
[06:37.330 --> 06:37.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[06:37.730 --> 06:38.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: It said no POTS lines.
[06:39.630 --> 06:40.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm impressed that they...
[06:40.690 --> 06:41.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, this is not a POTS line.
[06:41.870 --> 06:42.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is a cell phone.
[06:42.770 --> 06:44.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: POTS is plain old telephone service.
[06:44.470 --> 06:45.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: That means landline.
[06:45.510 --> 06:50.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, you're saying that the POTS, the anti-POTS edict does not prohibit cell phones?
[06:50.410 --> 06:53.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: I would think a POTS line would be better than what we have now.
[06:53.270 --> 06:56.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, they were encouraging you to use ISDN or come in person.
[06:57.050 --> 06:57.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Emmanuel.
[06:57.510 --> 06:58.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, Bernie, yes.
[06:58.350 --> 06:58.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go ahead.
[06:59.410 --> 07:04.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: What the memo said, as I recall, is...
[07:04.990 --> 07:08.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: POTS, by the way, for our listeners who don't know, is an acronym for plain old telephone system.
[07:08.870 --> 07:10.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: Didn't I just say that?
[07:10.350 --> 07:11.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: I didn't hear you say that.
[07:11.790 --> 07:12.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: It probably was kind of like that.
[07:12.150 --> 07:13.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, your phone is horrible.
[07:13.410 --> 07:14.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: You don't even hear what I'm saying.
[07:14.530 --> 07:15.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, go ahead.
[07:15.050 --> 07:23.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: But the other note in that memo was that the noise on the long-distance circuits is almost unbearable with POTS lines.
[07:26.210 --> 07:29.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that might be true in the 1960s and 1970s.
[07:29.330 --> 07:29.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly.
[07:29.690 --> 07:35.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: I haven't heard background noise on a long-distance line for decades, so I don't know what...
[07:35.010 --> 07:36.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I remember that.
[07:36.250 --> 07:38.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: I remember years ago when you would make a long-distance call.
[07:39.190 --> 07:40.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: First of all, you'd go over a mechanical switch.
[07:41.030 --> 07:42.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: You'd hear the click of the relays.
[07:42.890 --> 07:51.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then after that, you would hear kind of this hollow sound, this sort of sound of air as the long-distance circuit was connected to.
[07:51.410 --> 07:54.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: And sometimes it would get even noisier as additional circuits were connected to.
[07:54.810 --> 07:55.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: I miss those days.
[07:55.770 --> 07:56.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: I do, too.
[07:56.450 --> 07:57.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was beautiful sound.
[07:57.510 --> 07:57.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was.
[07:57.910 --> 07:59.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it took a long time to make a phone call.
[07:59.390 --> 08:01.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: But when you did get connected, it sounded so much better.
[08:02.690 --> 08:03.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, well.
[08:03.510 --> 08:05.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, those days are never coming back.
[08:05.570 --> 08:09.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: But we have new days coming up and all sorts of other fun things to discuss.
[08:10.110 --> 08:12.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, and I should also point out, this is the second week of our fundraise.
[08:12.750 --> 08:18.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: We want to thank everybody who called in last week and propelled us well over the $2,000 mark, which is great for an hour.
[08:19.070 --> 08:19.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: And guess what?
[08:19.650 --> 08:20.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: We need to do it again.
[08:20.530 --> 08:22.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: We need to have people calling in.
[08:23.210 --> 08:28.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if you know that you want to call in, this is as good a time as any because we'll just give out the phone number.
[08:28.610 --> 08:30.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have the same premiums as last week.
[08:30.450 --> 08:33.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: The phone number is 212-209-2950.
[08:34.050 --> 08:36.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: And what we're offering, Mike, you want to run down what we're offering?
[08:37.170 --> 08:38.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now I have to remember.
[08:38.350 --> 08:38.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[08:38.790 --> 08:46.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you know, anyone who pledges $25 or more always gets the Off The Hook t-shirt, which no one here is wearing.
[08:46.510 --> 08:48.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: But it's black and it's quite lovely.
[08:49.650 --> 08:57.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you pledge $50, you will, in addition, get the $2,600 sweatshirt, which Not Kevin is modeling for us right now.
[08:57.950 --> 09:04.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: So all you people who are in the studio can see it and maybe he can describe it for us.
[09:05.110 --> 09:11.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, as I described last time, it is gray and it has red lettering across the front, 2600 and on the back.
[09:12.070 --> 09:15.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: And also red lettering football player font says the word hacker.
[09:16.830 --> 09:20.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it looks... you look quite fetching in it.
[09:22.090 --> 09:31.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: And so you can call 212-209-2950 and pledge $50 and you will also look fetching in such a sweatshirt.
[09:31.470 --> 09:32.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Did you just say fetching?
[09:32.650 --> 09:33.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: I said it twice, yes.
[09:34.530 --> 09:39.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're trying to get headphones to work in the studio, so I don't know where you're going with the English language there.
[09:39.710 --> 09:42.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: But that's... he does look fetching.
[09:42.150 --> 09:43.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, there's no question about it.
[09:43.530 --> 09:44.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Would I lie on the air?
[09:44.450 --> 09:45.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is it the sweatshirt, though?
[09:45.490 --> 09:46.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is that what's doing it?
[09:46.310 --> 09:47.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think it is.
[09:47.070 --> 09:47.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[09:47.310 --> 09:48.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, because normally, you know...
[09:48.730 --> 09:51.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's also scientifically proven to make you 10% cooler.
[09:51.510 --> 09:57.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it's not working for our listeners because I don't think they want to look as fetching as you do or be cooler or anything like that.
[09:57.410 --> 09:58.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: I see no phone calls coming in.
[09:58.730 --> 10:04.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, maybe they're holding out for the... what they can get if they pledge even more money.
[10:04.390 --> 10:05.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you pledge...
[10:05.370 --> 10:05.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of course.
[10:05.790 --> 10:07.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're holding out for more money, obviously.
[10:08.150 --> 10:13.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because they really want to show their support to the station and they want to know what tokens we'll give them in return.
[10:14.530 --> 10:23.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: And so the listeners who call 212-209-2950 should know that if they pledge $100, they will get a ticket to this summer's HOPE conference.
[10:24.310 --> 10:29.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: And in addition, they will get an archive of HOPE Number Six DVDs.
[10:29.670 --> 10:34.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, let me just point out something here that maybe we were a bit remiss about.
[10:35.270 --> 10:38.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: The regular price for admission to the conference is $75.
[10:40.430 --> 10:41.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's on the website.
[10:41.650 --> 10:42.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's what it says.
[10:42.490 --> 10:49.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, the regular price for the HOPE Number Six, the last conference which took place in 2006, the HOPE Number Six DVDs, which are how many DVDs exactly?
[10:50.510 --> 10:52.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know exactly, but we said around 80.
[10:52.810 --> 10:53.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Around 80.
[10:53.550 --> 10:53.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Eight zero.
[10:54.370 --> 10:56.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, the normal price for that is $400.
[10:57.990 --> 10:58.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's a lot of money.
[10:59.110 --> 11:01.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: It almost makes me think there's some kind of a mistake here.
[11:01.370 --> 11:12.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're saying for a pledge of $100, you'll get that, that $400 value of 80 DVDs, and you'll get one admission to the upcoming HOPE conference in July in New York City.
[11:13.070 --> 11:13.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is that what you're saying?
[11:13.870 --> 11:20.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm saying that, but I'm also neglecting to remind people that you will also get a T-shirt, an Off The Hook T-shirt.
[11:20.250 --> 11:23.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is really getting silly, but this only applies for this hour.
[11:23.430 --> 11:24.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is that what we're trying to...
[11:24.610 --> 11:24.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's right.
[11:24.870 --> 11:32.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have about 50, 49 minutes left to call 1-212-209-2950 and get this.
[11:33.050 --> 11:34.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: What if I wanted two tickets?
[11:34.490 --> 11:38.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: See, the thing is, I understand some of our listeners do, in fact, have friends.
[11:39.470 --> 11:40.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: It does happen by accident.
[11:40.470 --> 11:43.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: They want to bring one of these friends to the HOPE conference.
[11:43.450 --> 11:51.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: So if you pledge $150 or more, you'll get two tickets to the HOPE conference, plus the archive set, plus the T-shirt.
[11:52.610 --> 11:53.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's insane.
[11:53.550 --> 11:54.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: That really is insane.
[11:54.390 --> 12:00.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're talking about you're getting things for a fraction of the value, and you're supporting the radio station.
[12:00.690 --> 12:02.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: So that's incredible.
[12:02.750 --> 12:04.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: There must be something wrong with the phones.
[12:04.210 --> 12:05.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's the only thing I can think of.
[12:05.170 --> 12:06.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Did we not say the phone number?
[12:07.090 --> 12:07.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll say it again.
[12:07.990 --> 12:08.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bernie, why don't you say it?
[12:08.750 --> 12:09.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe when you say it, it works better.
[12:11.450 --> 12:12.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or maybe not.
[12:12.910 --> 12:13.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[12:13.550 --> 12:14.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: He still can't hear me.
[12:14.650 --> 12:16.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: His phone doesn't work so well.
[12:16.030 --> 12:17.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: That magical phone of his.
[12:17.590 --> 12:17.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[12:18.050 --> 12:19.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Who wants to say the phone number?
[12:19.850 --> 12:21.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: How about you, Redbird?
[12:21.790 --> 12:24.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950.
[12:24.970 --> 12:25.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[12:26.030 --> 12:27.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I see a line lit.
[12:27.170 --> 12:27.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not sure.
[12:27.470 --> 12:27.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: That worked.
[12:27.850 --> 12:28.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: That was awesome.
[12:28.530 --> 12:29.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, guys.
[12:29.190 --> 12:30.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: That was lit before you started saying it.
[12:30.670 --> 12:31.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, there's another one.
[12:31.530 --> 12:32.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's another one.
[12:32.230 --> 12:33.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, they might have picked up the wrong line there.
[12:33.690 --> 12:34.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: That was the key.
[12:34.410 --> 12:36.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: All the lines are lighting up in no particular order.
[12:36.850 --> 12:39.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I'm wondering if people are just sort of throwing the phones on the floor.
[12:39.850 --> 12:41.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: But it looks like we have five calls, which is good.
[12:42.330 --> 12:42.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's good.
[12:42.850 --> 12:42.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[12:43.110 --> 12:44.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: From now on, you get to say the phone number.
[12:45.050 --> 12:45.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: I like that job.
[12:45.770 --> 12:46.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'll take it.
[12:46.270 --> 12:46.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[12:46.710 --> 12:47.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: Let's try it.
[12:47.130 --> 12:47.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's one you can handle.
[12:47.630 --> 12:48.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: Try it again.
[12:49.690 --> 12:51.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950.
[12:52.170 --> 12:52.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[12:52.470 --> 12:54.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, that time it didn't work because there's still just five calls.
[12:54.970 --> 12:56.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: The volunteers picked up all the running lines.
[12:56.290 --> 12:59.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, but there should be ten calls now because you got five calls the first time you said it.
[12:59.430 --> 12:59.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Six?
[13:00.490 --> 13:01.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: I see five.
[13:01.430 --> 13:02.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, it jumped.
[13:02.570 --> 13:02.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[13:03.190 --> 13:03.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Seven?
[13:03.750 --> 13:04.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[13:04.290 --> 13:04.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: Eight?
[13:04.850 --> 13:05.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: Nine?
[13:05.390 --> 13:05.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[13:05.810 --> 13:07.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: He is getting his calls.
[13:07.330 --> 13:09.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: People want to get these lovely premiums.
[13:09.530 --> 13:10.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: And also, keep us on the air.
[13:10.990 --> 13:12.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Keep WBAI on the air.
[13:12.250 --> 13:14.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Keep Off The Hook on the air, which is really the important thing.
[13:14.710 --> 13:14.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: It is.
[13:14.930 --> 13:15.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: It is.
[13:15.330 --> 13:18.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's a necessary evil that we have to do this.
[13:18.490 --> 13:21.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's four times a year, basically, that the station has to raise money.
[13:21.350 --> 13:22.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Every season, we have a fundraiser.
[13:23.710 --> 13:25.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's how we keep the station on the air.
[13:25.670 --> 13:28.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're broadcast off the top of the Empire State Building to four different states.
[13:28.890 --> 13:30.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, of course, we're on the Internet as well.
[13:31.070 --> 13:32.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we don't have commercials.
[13:32.130 --> 13:33.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: The only way to make that possible.
[13:33.790 --> 13:34.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: In the middle of the night...
[13:34.330 --> 13:34.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Every line.
[13:34.910 --> 13:35.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, look at that.
[13:35.570 --> 13:36.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, well, they were just lit.
[13:36.810 --> 13:37.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: I swear.
[13:37.150 --> 13:41.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, we have, I would say, 11 calls on the line.
[13:41.590 --> 13:41.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[13:42.010 --> 13:47.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, I have to say, I have to caution people, if you don't get an answer because how many volunteers do we have down there?
[13:47.730 --> 13:48.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not that many.
[13:51.350 --> 13:52.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you don't get through, don't give up.
[13:53.110 --> 13:53.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Call back.
[13:53.970 --> 13:54.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Keep calling.
[13:54.930 --> 13:56.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2950.
[13:56.430 --> 13:56.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you.
[13:56.790 --> 13:57.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you for those people calling in.
[13:57.910 --> 13:59.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we look forward to seeing you at the HOPE conference.
[13:59.710 --> 14:04.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or we look forward to seeing you in a fetching sweatshirt and t-shirt as well.
[14:04.950 --> 14:10.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: You could pledge now for the fetching sweatshirt and then later decide to come to the HOPE conference.
[14:10.510 --> 14:15.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: We could see you at the conference in the sweatshirt, although you'll be really warm.
[14:15.390 --> 14:22.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if for some reason you can't come to the conference, you can always give the tickets to a friend or sell them to an enemy or whatnot, whatever comes to mind.
[14:23.090 --> 14:24.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's all sorts of things.
[14:24.490 --> 14:24.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[14:24.750 --> 14:28.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or just watch the last conference and you'll be so...
[14:28.730 --> 14:33.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think after you watch the DVDs of the last conference, you'll want to come to this one just automatically.
[14:34.070 --> 14:34.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[14:34.430 --> 14:41.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I should also point out that sometimes getting the DVDs is the only way to see the talks because there are just so many things to do at the conference.
[14:41.450 --> 14:44.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we're going to be talking about that in great detail in just a couple of moments.
[14:44.050 --> 14:47.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: But first, I just want to go over a couple of news items in this week's news.
[14:47.990 --> 14:48.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't usually do this.
[14:49.010 --> 14:50.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't usually go out and buy newspapers.
[14:50.430 --> 14:54.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sometimes I do, especially when the headline catches my fancy.
[14:54.710 --> 14:55.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: And look at yesterday's Newsday.
[14:56.090 --> 14:57.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do you see the headline on yesterday's Newsday?
[14:58.130 --> 14:59.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Isn't that something?
[14:59.490 --> 15:00.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Listeners, do you see this?
[15:00.410 --> 15:02.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: The jackpot is over 169.
[15:02.030 --> 15:03.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, not that.
[15:03.670 --> 15:04.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a...
[15:04.150 --> 15:04.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can't read a lotto.
[15:05.050 --> 15:06.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Why is there a lotto ad in the front page of the...
[15:06.950 --> 15:07.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyway.
[15:08.430 --> 15:09.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Cablevision News.
[15:09.250 --> 15:10.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: It used to be known as Newsday.
[15:10.790 --> 15:14.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyway, the front page headline is Hacked!
[15:15.990 --> 15:17.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: ID theft on Long Island.
[15:17.610 --> 15:21.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: 5,000 customers hid in a computer scheme that targeted Dave & Buster's.
[15:21.290 --> 15:24.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have no idea who Dave & Buster's are or is.
[15:24.070 --> 15:25.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a very fun place.
[15:25.350 --> 15:26.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun place?
[15:26.270 --> 15:26.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a fun place.
[15:26.750 --> 15:27.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: To do what?
[15:27.230 --> 15:27.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Steal people's ID?
[15:28.530 --> 15:28.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[15:29.430 --> 15:32.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: In the city, they have a nice restaurant and lots of video games and stuff.
[15:32.830 --> 15:33.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's cool.
[15:33.270 --> 15:34.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bernie, are you trying to say something?
[15:34.350 --> 15:35.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or is that just our echo?
[15:35.790 --> 15:36.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: That was me echoing.
[15:37.310 --> 15:39.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: There is a Dave & Buster's here in Philadelphia.
[15:39.150 --> 15:44.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's one of these massive video game pinball machines.
[15:44.270 --> 15:46.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a big gaming center for family fun.
[15:46.990 --> 15:48.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: I am so out of it.
[15:48.210 --> 15:52.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: I never find the family fun places or even the non-family fun places.
[15:52.730 --> 15:53.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: You don't have a family.
[15:53.730 --> 15:54.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't have fun either.
[15:55.750 --> 15:56.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, boy.
[15:56.590 --> 15:58.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyway, let me just read the first paragraph of this.
[15:58.650 --> 16:14.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: An international computer hacking gang broke into the computerized cash registers electronically at the Dave & Buster's restaurant in Islandia, that's on Long Island, and stole credit card information of more than 5,000 customers, starting a flood of at least $600,000
[16:14.270 --> 16:19.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: worth of fraudulent purchases around the world, according to federal prosecutors.
[16:19.530 --> 16:34.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: The remote break-in last year, and Newsdays is on top of this, at the Veterans Memorial Highway restaurant, was part of an overall attack on the Dave & Buster's chain, which has 49 locations in the United States, including Farmingdale and Westbury.
[16:34.930 --> 16:50.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, the gang members apparently made thousands of attacks attempting to break into computer systems around the world, including 10 other Dave & Buster's locations nationwide, but finally struck pay dirt at the Islandia restaurant while collecting the data sporadically from May to September of last year.
[16:51.070 --> 16:54.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, the people charged, and this was investigated by the Secret Service.
[16:55.150 --> 17:03.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: They were in Estonia, they were in Miami, and I think there are only two of them right now, but what do you think, guys?
[17:03.890 --> 17:05.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Computer hacking gang?
[17:05.370 --> 17:06.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: They have computers in Miami.
[17:07.010 --> 17:07.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, they do.
[17:07.990 --> 17:10.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: But is this...
[17:10.050 --> 17:10.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bernie, what do you think?
[17:10.910 --> 17:12.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is this the right way to describe these people?
[17:13.010 --> 17:22.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I mean, it might have been a gang of people, but it's kind of like Czech forgers saying that they're a pencil and pen gang.
[17:23.030 --> 17:24.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, it's just silly.
[17:24.310 --> 17:36.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, computers are ubiquitous tools now, and they could be used for good or bad, and an organized crime gang, as these people were probably organized, and I don't know if gang is the right term, but, you know, so they use computers to commit a crime.
[17:36.890 --> 17:38.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: It doesn't mean they're a hacking gang.
[17:38.650 --> 17:43.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's just giving hacking a bad name, and it doesn't make sense.
[17:43.470 --> 17:47.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, let's listen to what Eastern District United States Attorney Benton Campbell...
[17:47.770 --> 17:49.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: I want to see his door.
[17:49.530 --> 17:51.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: The nameplate on his door must take up the whole thing.
[17:52.130 --> 18:03.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Eastern District United States Attorney Benton Campbell announced the unsealing of the indictments and said, computer hacking and identity theft pose serious risks to our commercial, personal, and financial security.
[18:03.410 --> 18:09.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hackers who reach into our country from abroad will find no refuge from the reach of U.S.
[18:09.750 --> 18:10.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: criminal justice.
[18:10.790 --> 18:11.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's right.
[18:11.570 --> 18:11.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[18:12.690 --> 18:16.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hackers thinking of stealing identity of American citizens.
[18:16.030 --> 18:17.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're going to find you.
[18:18.070 --> 18:24.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, if anyone is considering this, there's plenty of countries that do not, in fact, have extradition treaties with the U.S.
[18:24.790 --> 18:25.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, yeah.
[18:25.770 --> 18:30.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: All that aside, though, I mean, this is just another hate piece against hackers and what hackers stand for.
[18:31.070 --> 18:32.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's got nothing to do with hacking.
[18:32.310 --> 18:33.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's got nothing to do with hacking.
[18:33.550 --> 18:38.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's got to do with bad security and criminals and things like that.
[18:38.250 --> 18:40.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, they have a little sidebar, protecting yourself.
[18:40.270 --> 18:49.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's no protection for a consumer if hackers break into a merchant's network other than checking credit card statements and challenging charges that are unfamiliar.
[18:49.370 --> 18:51.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: No protection against hackers at all.
[18:51.830 --> 18:54.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it's not the consumer that's liable in these cases.
[18:54.130 --> 18:54.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's true.
[18:54.590 --> 18:57.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: The credit card companies or sometimes the merchants.
[18:57.430 --> 19:00.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: But then we all have to pay extra rates somehow.
[19:00.590 --> 19:01.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: To cover bill charges anyway.
[19:02.030 --> 19:03.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's the hacker's fault in the end.
[19:03.710 --> 19:06.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: The most inconvenient thing is the amount of time that it takes to settle these things.
[19:07.190 --> 19:16.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you see charges that you want to dispute, it's a whole pain in the something I can't say on the air process to dispute them and actually get them removed.
[19:16.270 --> 19:16.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Absolutely.
[19:17.390 --> 19:18.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: But that was a bit of fun.
[19:18.810 --> 19:21.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: That caught my eye yesterday when it was in the paper.
[19:22.070 --> 19:27.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: But man, you know, you would think that Newsday would learn by now that that's just not accurate.
[19:27.630 --> 19:32.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I thought that's kind of like a daily news headline, I would expect, or a post headline, considering the post almost bought them.
[19:32.990 --> 19:33.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not surprised.
[19:34.590 --> 19:34.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[19:35.130 --> 19:36.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're only down to three lines now.
[19:36.450 --> 19:39.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: So if you're one of the people that didn't get through, this is a good time to call back.
[19:39.690 --> 19:41.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2950.
[19:41.530 --> 19:42.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Quickly running down...
[19:42.490 --> 19:43.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, you have to say the number.
[19:43.510 --> 19:45.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2950.
[19:46.230 --> 19:46.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[19:46.610 --> 19:47.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, so far, nothing's come in.
[19:47.990 --> 19:48.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I don't know.
[19:48.770 --> 19:48.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just wait.
[19:49.090 --> 19:49.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just wait.
[19:49.570 --> 19:50.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: The magic might be over for you.
[19:50.570 --> 19:53.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: The country code is one if you're calling from abroad.
[19:54.030 --> 19:54.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: That is true.
[19:54.830 --> 19:55.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: That is very true.
[19:56.130 --> 20:01.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: And very quickly to run down the premiums one more time, $25, you'll get an Off The Hook t-shirt.
[20:01.190 --> 20:01.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or more.
[20:01.930 --> 20:04.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's cheaper than the WBAI t-shirt, which I'm looking at right now.
[20:04.950 --> 20:07.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that's not even nearly as cool as ours.
[20:07.550 --> 20:09.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: I know you didn't just diss the WBAI.
[20:09.690 --> 20:11.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: T-shirt over WBAI.
[20:11.670 --> 20:12.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm just saying.
[20:12.530 --> 20:14.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because there are going to be people waiting for us when we leave the studio now.
[20:15.150 --> 20:16.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're going to want to discuss this a little further.
[20:17.190 --> 20:17.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[20:17.470 --> 20:22.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you don't like Off The Hook, but you like WBAI, you can pledge $30 and get the WBAI t-shirt.
[20:22.190 --> 20:25.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's purple and yellow and also quite fetching, I would say.
[20:25.450 --> 20:26.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you pledge...
[20:26.610 --> 20:27.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have to stop using that word.
[20:27.910 --> 20:32.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: There are levels of fetching, however, and ours is a higher level of fetching than the WBAI t-shirt.
[20:32.170 --> 20:32.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: But wait a minute.
[20:32.490 --> 20:36.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you pledge $30 for the WBAI t-shirt, would you not also get an Off The Hook t-shirt?
[20:36.850 --> 20:37.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is that how it works?
[20:37.830 --> 20:38.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think so.
[20:38.930 --> 20:39.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[20:39.930 --> 20:41.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: During this hour, anyway.
[20:41.310 --> 20:44.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: So there's only 40 minutes left to get that kind of two-t-shirt deal.
[20:44.870 --> 20:47.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then you can decide for yourself which one is more fetching.
[20:47.430 --> 20:47.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[20:47.970 --> 20:49.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: But that's for a pledge of $25 or $30.
[20:50.370 --> 20:53.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: For a pledge of $50, you get what not Kevin is wearing right now.
[20:54.010 --> 20:55.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, not that silly hat.
[20:55.430 --> 20:56.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right off my back.
[20:57.030 --> 20:58.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, not that one either.
[20:58.370 --> 20:59.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: You'll get a brand new one.
[20:59.770 --> 21:04.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: The zippered hooded sweatshirt.
[21:04.610 --> 21:09.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's hard to say, but it's gray and it has lettering on the front or numbering on the front, lettering on the back, right?
[21:10.490 --> 21:10.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[21:10.990 --> 21:11.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Describe it quickly.
[21:11.930 --> 21:12.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Again?
[21:12.590 --> 21:13.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, very quickly.
[21:13.770 --> 21:16.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's gray and it has red lettering on the front.
[21:16.190 --> 21:17.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: What does the red lettering say?
[21:17.510 --> 21:17.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: 2,600.
[21:18.190 --> 21:18.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[21:18.530 --> 21:19.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: And on the back, it says hacker.
[21:19.590 --> 21:20.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[21:20.270 --> 21:26.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: So people can see you running away and say, look, a hacker just stole my identity and it says hacker on his back.
[21:26.570 --> 21:26.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[21:26.910 --> 21:27.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you're easy to find.
[21:27.730 --> 21:28.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's exactly what it's for.
[21:28.690 --> 21:35.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: So if you're going to steal someone's identity, if you're part of an international ring of some sort, don't wear that, I guess, because then news day will write a story about you.
[21:36.470 --> 21:36.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[21:36.730 --> 21:38.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: For a pledge of $50, you'll get that.
[21:38.490 --> 21:39.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2950.
[21:40.030 --> 21:44.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: For a pledge of $100, who wants to tell us this one one more time?
[21:44.970 --> 21:46.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're looking at me like I haven't said it before.
[21:46.830 --> 21:59.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: But for your pledge of $100, which you can make by calling 212-209-2950, you get a ticket to the upcoming HOPE conference and you get to hear me echo into Bernie's cell phone.
[21:59.750 --> 22:03.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you get an archive set of the HOPE Number Six DVDs, 80 DVDs, plus a ticket to see the talks live this July.
[22:09.430 --> 22:13.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you pledge $150, we'll throw in another HOPE ticket.
[22:13.950 --> 22:22.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: So you'll have two HOPE tickets, plus the archive set, plus, as with all pledges of $25 or more, you'll get a t-shirt.
[22:22.610 --> 22:25.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you think that's really just too good a deal...
[22:25.610 --> 22:26.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: It is too good a deal.
[22:26.470 --> 22:27.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: ...you can always pledge more.
[22:28.550 --> 22:30.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we will thank you profusely.
[22:31.010 --> 22:33.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because we're going to lose our shirts over this, because we're the ones giving away the tickets.
[22:33.790 --> 22:35.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we're giving away the shirts as well.
[22:35.250 --> 22:36.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of course we lose them.
[22:36.090 --> 22:36.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, we're losing everything.
[22:37.490 --> 22:42.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hopefully a lot of people will come to the conference and buy lots of things as well.
[22:43.050 --> 22:44.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I'm looking at the numbers.
[22:44.410 --> 22:46.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Holy Toledo is all I have to say here.
[22:46.650 --> 22:48.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we won't be going to Toledo, will we, on our way to Dayton?
[22:49.530 --> 22:50.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, unfortunately.
[22:50.390 --> 22:52.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: But wow, we're over $1,000 already.
[22:52.790 --> 22:54.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we're not even at the halfway mark of the show.
[22:54.530 --> 22:55.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's incredible, guys.
[22:55.790 --> 22:56.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Really incredible.
[22:57.030 --> 22:58.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: So thanks, everybody, who's calling in.
[22:58.550 --> 23:00.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: I expect we'll have some names to read in just a little while.
[23:00.430 --> 23:01.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2950.
[23:01.890 --> 23:16.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, okay, as far as the upcoming Hackers on Planet Earth conference, which is taking place in New York City at the historic Hotel Pennsylvania, which we understand will still be standing from July 18th through July 20th.
[23:16.810 --> 23:20.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, the seventh, the seventh Hackers on Planet Earth conference.
[23:20.990 --> 23:26.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: The last hope will be taking place from Friday morning until Sunday night.
[23:26.590 --> 23:27.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Keynote speaker.
[23:27.690 --> 23:30.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: One of our keynotes has been announced as author Stephen Levy.
[23:30.150 --> 23:31.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: He wrote the book Hackers in 1984.
[23:32.630 --> 23:35.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: We've got all kinds of other amazing people showing up.
[23:36.130 --> 23:41.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: We've got Jello Biafra, our favorite, one of our favorite speakers.
[23:41.990 --> 23:44.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: We've got Kevin Mitnick will be there.
[23:44.730 --> 23:45.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: We've got Phiber Optik.
[23:46.010 --> 23:47.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: We've got Rop from Amsterdam.
[23:47.890 --> 23:49.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: We've got the lockpicking people.
[23:49.850 --> 23:52.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, we could just keep going on and on with all the people that are coming.
[23:52.910 --> 23:54.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we're still just trying to coordinate.
[23:55.030 --> 23:56.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: We've got Steve Rambam, of course.
[23:56.370 --> 23:56.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hey, Daniel.
[23:56.790 --> 23:57.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[23:57.290 --> 23:58.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't like people.
[23:58.170 --> 23:59.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is there going to be any cool technology there?
[23:59.830 --> 24:00.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, yes.
[24:00.570 --> 24:02.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: In fact, I believe there will...
[24:02.690 --> 24:05.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: You just said you don't like people, but you just got handed a list of people.
[24:05.830 --> 24:07.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, these people I do like.
[24:07.330 --> 24:07.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[24:07.690 --> 24:08.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: So why don't you tell us about those people?
[24:08.690 --> 24:09.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Then we'll talk about some of the technology.
[24:10.190 --> 24:13.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: These people are some of our generous donors.
[24:14.630 --> 24:16.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: They include Joshua from Seattle.
[24:18.150 --> 24:19.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Seattle, nice town.
[24:19.230 --> 24:19.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: I like Seattle.
[24:19.910 --> 24:20.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Seattle, Washington.
[24:20.670 --> 24:22.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not just any Seattle.
[24:22.590 --> 24:24.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Francis from Drummondville, Quebec.
[24:25.030 --> 24:25.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Drummondville, Quebec.
[24:25.570 --> 24:29.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know Drummondville, but I do know Quebec, and that's a really cool province of a really cool country.
[24:29.650 --> 24:30.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: They speak French there.
[24:31.370 --> 24:33.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's see if I know something about all the places that people...
[24:33.670 --> 24:34.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go ahead.
[24:34.110 --> 24:34.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not Kevin.
[24:34.610 --> 24:35.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: JP from New York.
[24:35.750 --> 24:36.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: New York.
[24:36.350 --> 24:37.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's the city that we're in.
[24:38.050 --> 24:38.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, that's true.
[24:39.030 --> 24:40.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's the best you can come up with.
[24:40.350 --> 24:41.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I'm trying to save time, too.
[24:42.010 --> 24:43.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Michael from Kansas City in Missouri.
[24:43.950 --> 24:44.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: There are two Kansas cities.
[24:44.890 --> 24:47.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's one in Missouri and one across the border in Kansas.
[24:47.890 --> 24:49.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Brad from Edmonton, Alberta.
[24:49.470 --> 24:54.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Edmonton, Alberta, home of the former Edmonton Oilers, who moved to some southern state, and it's a real shame.
[24:54.350 --> 24:55.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is this Jeopardy?
[24:55.450 --> 24:57.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm just trying to be informative here.
[24:58.090 --> 25:00.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: We also ought to thank Scott from Isle of Man.
[25:00.870 --> 25:01.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Isle of Man.
[25:01.610 --> 25:04.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's like a weird place, someplace I have not been to, and I'd like to go there.
[25:06.790 --> 25:07.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Isn't there...
[25:07.430 --> 25:08.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that doesn't count.
[25:09.290 --> 25:09.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I...
[25:09.890 --> 25:12.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, Isle of Man, I don't even know where that is exactly.
[25:12.710 --> 25:14.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've heard of it, but where is that?
[25:14.250 --> 25:14.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: The UK.
[25:14.610 --> 25:15.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's near the British Isles, I think.
[25:15.990 --> 25:16.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sorry, Bernie, what?
[25:17.270 --> 25:18.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: I believe it's near the British Isles.
[25:18.850 --> 25:20.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, with a name like that, it would have to be, wouldn't it?
[25:20.850 --> 25:24.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: But it has its own sovereignty, I think, because there's a...
[25:24.030 --> 25:27.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's known as a sort of a tax and banking haven.
[25:28.550 --> 25:29.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: And there's also...
[25:29.650 --> 25:35.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: First, also, it's odd that the Isle of Man is a major telecommunications hub.
[25:35.610 --> 25:46.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's something about international regulations and laws and so forth that makes it more economical to put a major telecommunications hub in the Isle of Man.
[25:46.410 --> 25:54.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: So there's all manner of fiber, major fiber optic trunks running in and out of the Isle of Man, satellite stations, and all kinds of things.
[25:55.130 --> 25:55.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[25:55.930 --> 25:57.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Moving on, Isle of Man.
[25:57.490 --> 25:58.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, what else do we have to thank?
[25:58.470 --> 26:02.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: We wish to thank James from Livonia, which is in Michigan.
[26:03.110 --> 26:04.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know anything about that place.
[26:04.850 --> 26:05.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: I know Michigan.
[26:05.510 --> 26:07.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Michigan looks like a hand when you hold it up.
[26:07.950 --> 26:08.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's like...
[26:08.410 --> 26:09.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Everyone holds up their hand.
[26:09.610 --> 26:10.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, just stop.
[26:10.710 --> 26:12.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Points to where in Michigan they live.
[26:12.570 --> 26:15.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't see it on the map myself, but that's what everybody from Michigan does.
[26:16.050 --> 26:17.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Joseph from Philadelphia.
[26:17.690 --> 26:18.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Philadelphia.
[26:18.330 --> 26:19.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's where Bernie S.
[26:19.230 --> 26:19.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: is right now.
[26:19.770 --> 26:20.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Speak from Philadelphia, Bernie.
[26:21.550 --> 26:22.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, from Philadelphia.
[26:22.870 --> 26:24.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Those are sounds live from Philadelphia.
[26:24.590 --> 26:25.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Those sounds of...
[26:25.470 --> 26:26.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is that everywhere?
[26:26.270 --> 26:28.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's everyone who will tell us their name.
[26:28.330 --> 26:28.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good.
[26:28.570 --> 26:33.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: But if you wish to join their numbers, the number is 212-209-2950.
[26:33.430 --> 26:35.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have three calls on the line now, so it's a good time to call in.
[26:35.990 --> 26:38.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we have a couple more people who have joined us in the studio.
[26:38.370 --> 26:40.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: I want to say hi to Tyler Rob over there.
[26:40.610 --> 26:40.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hello.
[26:41.170 --> 26:42.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: And to Gray Frequency.
[26:42.490 --> 26:42.730]  Hey.
[26:43.070 --> 26:49.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they're actually the brains behind a lot of the design that's going on for the conference.
[26:49.730 --> 26:53.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if you see something that looks really cool, it's probably because of them.
[26:53.410 --> 26:55.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or one of the other people that's working on design things.
[26:56.370 --> 26:57.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: So many people collaborating.
[26:58.030 --> 27:00.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: So many people doing things for this upcoming conference.
[27:00.070 --> 27:01.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think it's going to be our biggest one yet.
[27:01.930 --> 27:07.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: But what we have happening this summer, I don't know.
[27:07.450 --> 27:08.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: I kind of...
[27:08.270 --> 27:15.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: I can't find the words for it because it is of such a nature that I think history will be made in some manner.
[27:16.410 --> 27:26.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: The things that we will be doing, just for the attendees, the people who show up, they're going to have a marvelous bit of technology with them the entire weekend.
[27:26.510 --> 27:31.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Who would like to introduce this in words that are better?
[27:32.110 --> 27:33.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Lexicon, you want to give it a stab?
[27:33.510 --> 27:33.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Lexicon, you want to give it a stab?
[27:33.870 --> 27:40.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, we're going to be using the radio frequency ID electronic tags.
[27:40.630 --> 27:41.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: RFID.
[27:41.370 --> 27:41.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: RFID.
[27:42.490 --> 27:45.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: And tagging lots of people who come in the door at HOPE.
[27:45.190 --> 27:46.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, now let me stop you right there.
[27:46.510 --> 27:50.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: When you say we're going to be tagging people, right away I think of cows being shot.
[27:50.630 --> 27:52.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they do use RFID for cows.
[27:53.050 --> 27:55.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: But we're not going to shoot people and inject things under their skin.
[27:55.650 --> 27:55.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, no.
[27:56.050 --> 27:58.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is going to be the admission badge for HOPE.
[27:58.470 --> 28:04.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's going to be an RFID tag that's active and has a little blinking light that looks cool.
[28:04.610 --> 28:05.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Blinking lights.
[28:05.290 --> 28:06.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: We like blinking lights.
[28:06.350 --> 28:07.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to make a game out of it.
[28:07.930 --> 28:11.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a massive interactive game using the entire hotel.
[28:12.530 --> 28:13.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Using the entire hotel?
[28:14.130 --> 28:14.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[28:14.830 --> 28:18.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, well, we don't actually have the conference in the entire hotel.
[28:18.830 --> 28:20.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have the conference in the conference areas.
[28:20.830 --> 28:22.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: But we do sort of wander throughout the entire hotel.
[28:22.850 --> 28:23.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[28:23.210 --> 28:25.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: And there are a lot of places to wander in that place.
[28:25.530 --> 28:40.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: So we've come up with a game, and we're going to track all of these tags going around the hotel, and you'll be able to look at screens and projections and these wild data visualizations of where everybody is and what's going on.
[28:40.590 --> 28:50.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we're also surveying the people who come in and get one of these things as to their interests in the things that are being talked about at the conference.
[28:50.090 --> 29:09.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, like, if you're interested in Wi-Fi or you're interested in lockpicking, you go to a terminal at the conference and you tell us that and link it to your badge, and we will be able to help you through a massive SMS system going to your phone, tell you when things are going on that you're interested in,
[29:09.470 --> 29:18.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: and also the SMS has got to be part of the game, and we have all these things tying together, all these cool technologies that we're trying to wrap into the same thing.
[29:19.070 --> 29:19.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Amazing.
[29:19.610 --> 29:21.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: I know, Darivin, you're involved in this as well.
[29:21.730 --> 29:25.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I know the SMS thing is something we were talking about last week.
[29:26.790 --> 29:28.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: How is that going to work?
[29:28.110 --> 29:32.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: People use their mobile phones and be able to find out things that are happening?
[29:32.370 --> 29:33.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[29:33.210 --> 29:48.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: People will be able to text a phone number and interact with a low-level AI that will carry them through the game and give them instructions, and they can text keywords, clues that they find, and receive replies.
[29:48.930 --> 29:49.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Interesting.
[29:49.870 --> 29:54.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: And this will guide them through the places they need to be for the game and the things that they need to do.
[29:54.530 --> 29:54.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[29:55.090 --> 30:07.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: So now, theoretically, somebody has to go to a particular location, and if they go to a particular location, I guess the RFID tag will register that they're there, and what, they get points for being there or something?
[30:07.450 --> 30:07.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[30:08.110 --> 30:17.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're doing this game that's called the Life Clock, and you start with a certain amount of points that is your life in the game for your player.
[30:17.430 --> 30:23.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: And as the weekend goes on, you lose points as time goes past, but you can get...
[30:23.550 --> 30:23.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: You lose points.
[30:23.970 --> 30:26.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: You lose points because this is the last hope.
[30:26.310 --> 30:29.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's all about the death of hope.
[30:29.350 --> 30:30.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it's mortality.
[30:30.310 --> 30:30.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're all mortal.
[30:30.930 --> 30:31.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's about mortality.
[30:31.450 --> 30:33.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Earth will go out in a cinder one day.
[30:33.510 --> 30:45.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: So you actually lose points as the weekend goes on, and to stay alive, you have to embrace your interest in technology and go to the seminars and go to the project centers on the mezzanine level.
[30:46.070 --> 30:47.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or at least send your tag to those.
[30:47.430 --> 30:49.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're sent your tag to those locations, yes.
[30:49.610 --> 30:50.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: What happens if you die, though?
[30:50.970 --> 30:52.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can you rejuvenate yourself, or are you done?
[30:53.170 --> 30:54.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think we're just going to kill people.
[30:55.070 --> 30:55.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, wow.
[30:56.730 --> 30:58.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: This has been our dream from the start.
[30:58.450 --> 30:58.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Amazing.
[30:59.170 --> 31:04.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: So we're going to have all these RFID tags out there, and people have to go to certain places and register.
[31:05.170 --> 31:07.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just by being there, they get more points.
[31:07.130 --> 31:07.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[31:07.670 --> 31:09.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: But that's only one aspect of this, right?
[31:09.950 --> 31:11.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: There are a lot of aspects of this, yeah.
[31:12.650 --> 31:22.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're also doing all these data visualizations where we're going to show people who they're connected to and how they're connected.
[31:22.810 --> 31:29.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we're doing one that's going to look like a weather map that shows how many people are in a certain area.
[31:30.330 --> 31:33.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, give us an example of how that networking will work.
[31:33.490 --> 31:36.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: You'll say what your interests are, and then what happens from there.
[31:37.130 --> 31:38.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, Kristen?
[31:39.030 --> 31:47.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you can... if you add your information into the database that we're going to have, you can be matched up with people who are matching your interests.
[31:47.930 --> 31:58.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Say you're interested in cryptography and you want to know things about the cryptography seminars, you can also match up with people who have registered a username and who are also interested.
[31:58.370 --> 32:01.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you can, even in some instances, play the game with them.
[32:01.830 --> 32:02.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Interesting.
[32:02.170 --> 32:05.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, let's say you're interested in federal agents.
[32:05.630 --> 32:07.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, you could register as a federal agent.
[32:07.690 --> 32:13.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: You don't have to show any proof that you're a federal agent, but wouldn't you then be able to find all the people who say they're federal agents very easily?
[32:14.970 --> 32:16.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that would be kind of the point.
[32:16.490 --> 32:25.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because what we're trying to do is we're trying to take things like Web 2.0, like you know how Flickr has a tagging system and you can find people's pictures.
[32:25.250 --> 32:34.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, Steve Rambam was here a few weeks ago and he scared the daylights out of me by telling me how it's possible to find somebody's photos randomly and track them down.
[32:34.550 --> 32:35.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's incredible.
[32:35.330 --> 32:38.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, we're basically taking that concept and we're taking it into meet space.
[32:39.050 --> 32:41.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: You are a tagged object and you can find similar objects.
[32:41.830 --> 32:42.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Did you say meet space?
[32:43.010 --> 32:43.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Into meet space.
[32:44.030 --> 32:44.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh my God.
[32:44.750 --> 32:46.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm using words like this too.
[32:46.630 --> 32:47.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's unbelievable.
[32:47.690 --> 32:48.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mike used fetching before.
[32:48.790 --> 32:49.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: I believe I have the right.
[32:49.770 --> 32:51.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: What is wrong with fetching?
[32:51.610 --> 32:54.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: It just hasn't been used in 50 years, but other than that, it's fine.
[32:55.830 --> 32:58.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, wow, okay, this is really something.
[32:58.170 --> 33:02.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's going to be funny because we get to tag Steve Rambam as well and find out where he goes and who he associates with.
[33:02.790 --> 33:03.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: But here's the thing.
[33:04.390 --> 33:14.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: We talk about RFID on the program and in the magazine a lot and obviously there are all kinds of risks and things that we think might be a bad use of them.
[33:14.590 --> 33:15.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is a good use of RFID.
[33:16.050 --> 33:17.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bernie, what's your take on all that?
[33:18.010 --> 33:21.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, obviously we've been working on this for a while.
[33:21.690 --> 33:35.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the bigger picture that we're trying to do at The Last HOPE is to showcase a model society where everybody's movements and associations are tracked using RFID technology.
[33:35.390 --> 33:37.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is what's going to come to our society.
[33:37.290 --> 33:39.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: We want to show people what's coming next.
[33:39.890 --> 33:50.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: As was mentioned earlier, large displays will show in real time where people are going, whom they associate with, how long they associate with these people, when they associate with them, how often.
[33:50.830 --> 34:06.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: And then we're going to demonstrate certain data-mining techniques like those used by police and intelligence agencies that can be used to determine interpersonal relationships and to build organizational structures between people that might not have been obvious.
[34:06.170 --> 34:17.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: So this is exactly the kind of technology that the NSA is using with telephone traffic, but we'll be analyzing traffic of RFID tags as people are moving around the conference.
[34:18.150 --> 34:27.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, the question is, after you see all this, we'll be better informed to decide whether we really want a society where everyone can be tracked wherever they go.
[34:28.490 --> 34:37.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's going to raise questions like, who's going to manage this information, how it will be shared, how it will be analyzed and aggregated, and why?
[34:37.290 --> 34:53.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: So these are questions that will be raised at this conference, and I think as more people become familiar with this technology and what it can be used for, they can decide, you know, what's good about it and whether this is going to be used for their benefit or whether it's going to be used against them.
[34:53.290 --> 34:59.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: And this is really just to educate people about this technology, and so they can make their own decisions about it.
[35:01.670 --> 35:10.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, the significance of this is really how cheaply and with how few resources we're able to do this compared to corporations and governments and stuff.
[35:11.030 --> 35:20.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: And by the way, one of the technical details for people who are more interested in the actual platform that we're using, we're going to be using the OpenBeacon platform that was developed in Germany.
[35:20.010 --> 35:28.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: And there's a whole wiki on that where you can look at the schematics and get more information about the hardware and the software that's going to be run.
[35:28.170 --> 35:29.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was going to say, this sounds very German.
[35:29.590 --> 35:31.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: This sounds like something the Germans would do and do well.
[35:32.010 --> 35:33.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're always involved in neat things like this.
[35:33.850 --> 35:35.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they've helped us with this tremendously, haven't they?
[35:35.570 --> 35:36.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: Absolutely, yeah.
[35:36.570 --> 35:43.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: And so the infrastructure that we have is going to be based entirely on an incredibly low budget, relatively speaking.
[35:43.350 --> 35:47.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, we did spend money on it, but it's not nearly as much as corporations or governments have.
[35:47.350 --> 35:52.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, and I think people would be amazed to see just what can be done with that fairly low budget and a bit of imagination.
[35:53.150 --> 35:56.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: And also people who want to be involved in that process.
[35:56.270 --> 35:57.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: There is still time.
[35:57.790 --> 35:59.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: There is still room for more people to participate.
[35:59.790 --> 36:01.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: How would people get involved if they are interested in this?
[36:02.250 --> 36:11.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: If they're interested in the RFID project or any other project that we're doing for HOPE, they can email projects at hope.net and get in touch with us.
[36:12.310 --> 36:15.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: We also have some art stuff that's going on for the lobby.
[36:15.110 --> 36:16.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: A lot of art stuff.
[36:16.510 --> 36:18.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: And Erevin, you're involved in that too.
[36:18.410 --> 36:18.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mike first.
[36:18.710 --> 36:26.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: I want to point out one more thing about the RFID project, which is that because our budget is limited, we can't give these RFID tags to every attendee.
[36:27.430 --> 36:32.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: We can only give it to those who pre-register, and that includes the people who pledged tonight.
[36:33.390 --> 36:37.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: And maybe we'll have a few left over for the very first ones to show up at the door.
[36:37.230 --> 36:43.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: But it's really yet another reason to call, 212-209-2950.
[36:43.410 --> 36:49.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I know we sound like a broken record, but it keeps us on the air, and you get to play with this neat technology.
[36:49.450 --> 36:51.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: So really, everyone wins.
[36:51.490 --> 37:03.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if you're listening to this show after 8 o'clock on Wednesday night, then you can always go to www.hope.net and pre-register from there as well and make sure that you get one of these really cool tags.
[37:03.610 --> 37:06.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just one more point, though, before we move on to the art.
[37:06.850 --> 37:07.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Should people be afraid?
[37:07.990 --> 37:10.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Should people be scared of these tags?
[37:10.590 --> 37:11.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Should people avoid them?
[37:12.470 --> 37:14.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think they should just be curious.
[37:14.890 --> 37:18.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, it's certainly dangerous to have people watching you everywhere you go.
[37:19.010 --> 37:21.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: That seems like a bad idea.
[37:22.030 --> 37:24.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I just read the story about the hackers stealing...
[37:24.410 --> 37:25.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can pull the battery out of these things.
[37:25.270 --> 37:27.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: I just read the story about hackers stealing your identity.
[37:27.970 --> 37:34.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: And shouldn't people be a little concerned that hackers are tracking your whereabouts in this conference?
[37:35.770 --> 37:37.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: What do you say to people who are worried about that?
[37:38.190 --> 37:42.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'd be more worried about the federal government tracking my everywhere about it.
[37:44.190 --> 37:48.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: The point is that this is happening whether you like it or not in real life.
[37:48.230 --> 37:49.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're being tracked whether you like it or not.
[37:50.190 --> 37:51.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: There's a lot more surveillance cameras.
[37:51.990 --> 37:56.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: There's a lot more of a paper trail and data trail of where you go and what you do.
[37:56.510 --> 37:58.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: And this is really an opt-out system.
[37:58.270 --> 38:04.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: So if you end up with one of these tags and you don't actually want it, maybe you can take the battery out or maybe you can shield it or do something like that.
[38:04.830 --> 38:06.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: We will have tags that don't have these as well.
[38:06.930 --> 38:07.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[38:07.090 --> 38:07.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: We will have tags.
[38:07.750 --> 38:10.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: So maybe you can swap it with someone who wants to participate in the system and has one.
[38:10.990 --> 38:11.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: But this is a great opportunity.
[38:12.150 --> 38:22.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is the equivalent of having an electronic voting machine to play with, to learn exactly what you can do with the technology, how it could be used, how it could be abused, how you might be able to hack it.
[38:22.010 --> 38:27.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is an incredible opportunity to be involved in something that the powers that be will never let you be involved in.
[38:28.110 --> 38:38.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: So for that reason alone, that reason alone, I think people should be pre-registering and going to the conference and having as much fun as possible with these little devices, which I think are really, really cool.
[38:38.950 --> 38:41.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Guys, what's involved in putting this together?
[38:41.210 --> 38:47.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: I know there's a whole team of people that are not here that have been working on this project nonstop for months.
[38:47.730 --> 38:53.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I see some of the activity there and it's simply, it's mind-bending what's going on.
[38:53.630 --> 38:59.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: What kind of intelligence are we making use of with all these people?
[39:00.150 --> 39:05.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're making use, obviously, of the hardware end of it and how we gather data.
[39:06.150 --> 39:12.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're using databasing technology and we're connecting it to a web-based front end.
[39:12.490 --> 39:14.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: So we're using web technologies as well.
[39:16.010 --> 39:19.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're using the processing language?
[39:19.110 --> 39:26.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, the processing.org is a site that has a... MIT, I believe, came up with it.
[39:26.130 --> 39:35.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: MIT came up with a markup-style language that allows you to visualize real-time 3D and 2D information structures.
[39:36.010 --> 39:42.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can really do whatever you want with it because it's quite flexible, but we found that it's very suited for our purposes.
[39:42.730 --> 39:43.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Mm-hmm.
[39:43.690 --> 39:49.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, just to give people a sense, there are all different aspects of the project, all different committees.
[39:49.230 --> 39:50.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's visualization, I believe, is one.
[39:52.970 --> 39:57.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Visualization and integration and infrastructure are three main teams.
[39:57.390 --> 40:00.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: And there's also people working on the database that kind of hop between them.
[40:01.750 --> 40:02.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mm-hmm.
[40:02.270 --> 40:05.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's about, I think, 12 or 15 people...
[40:05.230 --> 40:05.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Something like that.
[40:05.890 --> 40:06.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: ...working in and out.
[40:06.710 --> 40:10.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's about seven or eight core people and then other people that are helping us...
[40:10.810 --> 40:11.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Incredible.
[40:11.090 --> 40:12.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: ...with the different aspects.
[40:12.010 --> 40:18.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: But we could certainly use some additional programmers, if anybody wants to lend a hand, or who has some free cycles to do some work.
[40:18.930 --> 40:20.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Email address, projects at hope.net.
[40:21.150 --> 40:21.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Absolutely.
[40:21.610 --> 40:25.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: And probably even as we speak, somebody on that team is working on this project right now.
[40:25.230 --> 40:25.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: They are, yeah.
[40:25.690 --> 40:26.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's incredible.
[40:26.850 --> 40:27.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm blown away by it.
[40:28.510 --> 40:33.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: So it's just one of the many things that are going on at the conference, but I think this is what is going to make it really cool and memorable.
[40:33.430 --> 40:37.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: And Mitch, of course, who's also here, has played an enormous role in actually getting the tags manufactured.
[40:38.010 --> 40:42.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: Which is no easy thing to do, and he's had connections in China with...
[40:42.230 --> 40:42.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, tell us about it.
[40:42.890 --> 40:46.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: You actually went all the way to China, but you didn't go there just to check on these tags, did you?
[40:46.610 --> 40:53.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I didn't go there for doing this specifically, but while I was there, I set up manufacturing for the tags in China.
[40:53.410 --> 40:58.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I went there actually to check out a plant of a guy I've been working with.
[40:58.510 --> 41:01.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: He made me some samples of a brain machine.
[41:01.290 --> 41:04.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're going to be manufacturing them since they're so popular as a do-it-yourself.
[41:04.610 --> 41:08.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: I thought I'd make them available for people who want to buy them ready-made.
[41:10.030 --> 41:25.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm not okay with making the world a better place for some people at the expense of others, so I went there to check out the plant to see if they treat their people well, pay them well, enforce safety standards, and treat the environment well.
[41:25.950 --> 41:27.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it turns out they actually do.
[41:27.590 --> 41:33.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Of course, for the wrong reasons, they just don't want their people to leave to another plant because there are so many of them.
[41:34.110 --> 41:41.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: But anyways, while I was there, I also set up the manufacturing process for these RFID tags that we'll be using.
[41:42.630 --> 41:42.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wow.
[41:43.090 --> 41:43.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: So it's incredible.
[41:44.030 --> 41:49.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: It really is a global effort going on here, stretching from Germany to China to the United States and other places as well.
[41:49.430 --> 41:50.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I'm really looking forward to this.
[41:51.210 --> 41:53.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, Phil, I just want to bring you in one more time, Phil, from Make.
[41:54.170 --> 41:58.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: You've seen a lot of really cool projects in your dealings over the years, especially with Make magazine.
[41:59.050 --> 42:00.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: How do you think this is going to turn out?
[42:01.150 --> 42:02.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, I think this is going to be great.
[42:02.270 --> 42:07.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think hardware is one of the things that have brought a lot of new people into the hacking scene and the DIY scene.
[42:07.430 --> 42:14.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: So from RFID, which is a popular topic on Make, to jamming RFID, which is a popular topic on Make.
[42:14.450 --> 42:15.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, and there'll be some of that going on, too, I'll bet.
[42:16.170 --> 42:16.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, yeah.
[42:17.070 --> 42:20.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: In fact, The Last HOPE, I had a talk with Lady Ada.
[42:20.730 --> 42:31.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: We did a presentation, and she had her open-source cell phone jammer, which also jams all RF, so GPS, RFID, Wi-Fi, and that'll be there.
[42:31.550 --> 42:33.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now it's kind of a fun project that lots of people have.
[42:33.850 --> 42:37.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: So two years later, they're more common than they were before.
[42:37.750 --> 42:53.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I think that's one of the neat things that I'm looking forward to, is all the type of hardware projects from Arduino, which is a very simple kind of almost art-meets-tech platform for people to play around with, all the way up to giant transmitters and ham radio people.
[42:53.270 --> 42:54.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I'm looking forward to it for that.
[42:54.910 --> 42:56.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, and you're going to be giving a presentation, too, as well.
[42:56.830 --> 42:57.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I'm going to have a presentation.
[42:57.770 --> 43:05.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm going to have maybe a follow-up to the first one, and we're going to be debuting maybe a little film about people building weird things in electronics.
[43:05.790 --> 43:06.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, cool.
[43:06.350 --> 43:11.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, and there'll be a special thing about the history of payphones in there, which I'm sure you might enjoy that.
[43:11.830 --> 43:12.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Awesome.
[43:12.150 --> 43:13.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I definitely will.
[43:13.310 --> 43:14.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hopefully I'll have the time to actually see it.
[43:15.490 --> 43:18.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we're also going to have all kinds of hackerspaces from all around the world.
[43:18.750 --> 43:20.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're popping up everywhere, hackerspaces.
[43:21.630 --> 43:29.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you're a part of a hackerspace, write to hackerspace at 2600.com, and the good people there will hopefully be able to include you in the hackerspace village.
[43:29.990 --> 43:34.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're going to have an actual village downstairs, sort of like a campground of hackerspaces all around the world.
[43:34.890 --> 43:42.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: So all the information, www.hope.net, Hackers on Planet Earth Conference, July 18th through 20th, and it's shaping up to be something incredible.
[43:42.530 --> 43:44.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're up to $1,785.
[43:45.230 --> 43:48.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: We want to break the $2,000 mark again, 212-209-2950.
[43:48.770 --> 43:49.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have three calls on the line.
[43:50.190 --> 43:53.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: If that didn't convince people to pledge for the HOPE tickets, I don't know what possibly could.
[43:54.010 --> 43:54.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, really.
[43:54.730 --> 43:59.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: You only have 17 minutes left before they're not offered on the radio station anymore.
[43:59.530 --> 44:05.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can always preregister at www.hope.net, but for now, 212-209-2950 is the number to call.
[44:05.810 --> 44:06.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have people to thank.
[44:06.550 --> 44:11.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, we want to thank some of the people who already did pledge by calling 212-209-2950.
[44:11.390 --> 44:14.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Joe, among them is Peter, who's from Guelph, Ontario.
[44:14.830 --> 44:15.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Joe from...
[44:15.450 --> 44:17.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Ontario, that's the English-speaking province of Canada.
[44:17.590 --> 44:18.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, we have commentary again.
[44:18.930 --> 44:19.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: One of them, yes.
[44:19.590 --> 44:20.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Joe from Columbus, Ohio.
[44:20.930 --> 44:21.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Columbus, Ohio.
[44:21.870 --> 44:23.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'll be passing through Columbus, Ohio on my way to Dayton.
[44:24.430 --> 44:25.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Michael from Newark.
[44:26.530 --> 44:27.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Newark, New Jersey, yes.
[44:30.410 --> 44:32.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't have anything to say about Newark, New Jersey.
[44:32.750 --> 44:33.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sorry.
[44:33.510 --> 44:34.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: I wish I did.
[44:34.410 --> 44:34.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've tried.
[44:34.890 --> 44:36.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: I really have, but I just can't do it.
[44:36.830 --> 44:38.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: Jessica in Escondido.
[44:40.410 --> 44:43.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Isn't there some other bit of information, like where that is?
[44:43.770 --> 44:45.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, that's in California.
[44:45.410 --> 44:45.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[44:45.670 --> 44:46.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's L.A.
[44:46.330 --> 44:46.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: land.
[44:46.930 --> 44:47.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[44:47.670 --> 44:49.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think that says it all, then.
[44:50.170 --> 44:52.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, okay, thanks for that pledge, yes.
[44:52.790 --> 44:54.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sean from Beaumont, California.
[44:54.790 --> 44:56.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Again, California, nice state.
[44:57.210 --> 44:58.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Michael from Silver Spring.
[44:59.250 --> 44:59.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Maryland.
[44:59.830 --> 45:00.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Maryland.
[45:00.290 --> 45:00.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: How about that?
[45:01.690 --> 45:02.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: See, I'm running out of things to say.
[45:02.990 --> 45:04.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: And Kristen in Madison, Wisconsin.
[45:04.670 --> 45:07.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Madison, Wisconsin, very cool, college-y type town.
[45:07.650 --> 45:10.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: I also have David from Lorenzo, California.
[45:11.030 --> 45:12.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: What's with California all of a sudden?
[45:12.490 --> 45:13.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: All the California people are calling.
[45:13.890 --> 45:15.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks, everybody, for calling in.
[45:15.950 --> 45:16.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, you have more?
[45:18.030 --> 45:18.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are we done?
[45:18.830 --> 45:19.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm out.
[45:19.390 --> 45:19.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm done.
[45:19.790 --> 45:20.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're done.
[45:20.450 --> 45:20.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, we're done.
[45:20.870 --> 45:22.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, there's always the anonymous people, too.
[45:22.710 --> 45:23.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you, anonymous people.
[45:23.690 --> 45:24.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: You've kept us going many years.
[45:24.790 --> 45:26.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2950.
[45:26.950 --> 45:28.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Really quickly running down the pledges.
[45:28.270 --> 45:30.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: $25 for an Off The Hook t-shirt.
[45:30.090 --> 45:40.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: $50 for a t-shirt plus the new 2600 gray zipper hooded sweatshirt that says 2600 on the front and Hacker on the back in big red letters.
[45:41.430 --> 45:41.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: $100.
[45:41.910 --> 45:46.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: You'll get a ticket to the upcoming HOPE conference in New York City, July 18th through 20th.
[45:46.250 --> 45:53.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: In addition to that ticket, you will get a full archive of 80 DVDs of the HOPE Number Six conference, a $400 value, but you'll get it along with a ticket and a t-shirt for only $100.
[45:59.630 --> 46:01.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2950.
[46:01.450 --> 46:02.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Pledge $150.
[46:02.350 --> 46:03.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: You'll get two tickets.
[46:03.790 --> 46:04.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Unbelievable deal.
[46:04.870 --> 46:06.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2950.
[46:06.430 --> 46:08.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, we're going to talk about art at the conference.
[46:08.790 --> 46:11.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have all kinds of art projects as well.
[46:11.590 --> 46:13.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Darivin, you want to give us an update on that as well?
[46:15.430 --> 46:18.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not too many things to work on at once, but it's incredible.
[46:18.410 --> 46:19.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's a lot of stuff.
[46:19.110 --> 46:26.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: But as Phil said, there is a lot of tech going on in the art scene or a lot of art going on in the tech scene, however you want to look at it.
[46:26.770 --> 46:38.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: And a lot of it crosses over into many of these technical concepts like tracking and just generally how technology is involved with one's life.
[46:38.370 --> 46:54.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I've been tapping local artists through local communities like Dorkbot and basically getting people who want to showcase what they have done with things like Arduino's pick programming, just lights, wires, computers, anything.
[46:55.250 --> 46:58.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's partly to showcase what can be done with technology.
[46:58.330 --> 47:04.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's partly a draw because we want people to come by and look at all this great stuff and go, hey, what's going on in here?
[47:04.170 --> 47:05.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, there's this conference going on.
[47:05.870 --> 47:07.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let me see what's going on about this.
[47:09.130 --> 47:13.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: So we have, like, I'm not going to tell you everything because I want some of it to be a surprise.
[47:13.830 --> 47:29.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: But we have somebody, for instance, who is, who came up with bioinformatic wearable objects that can read your heart rate or your skin galvanization and tell things about you, kind of like a lie detector does.
[47:30.010 --> 47:30.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, wow.
[47:30.530 --> 47:34.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: And he also has a couple of little robots that he's going to have.
[47:34.450 --> 47:34.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Robots.
[47:34.890 --> 47:35.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's going to be robots.
[47:35.770 --> 47:36.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, there's going to be robots.
[47:36.850 --> 47:38.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've always wanted robots to come to HOPE.
[47:38.110 --> 47:39.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it looks like I'll finally get my wish.
[47:39.790 --> 47:40.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: We've had robots before.
[47:41.050 --> 47:42.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, but real robots.
[47:42.090 --> 47:44.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, the kind that, you know, from Star Trek and all that.
[47:46.330 --> 47:48.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think those are quite that advanced, but they're getting there.
[47:48.530 --> 47:48.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're getting there.
[47:49.030 --> 47:49.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: They really are.
[47:50.130 --> 47:51.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, you mentioned Dorkbot.
[47:51.530 --> 47:53.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: For those people, we have a lot of people listening.
[47:53.530 --> 47:55.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Many of our listeners are in their 1980s, in fact.
[47:55.450 --> 47:56.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: And hi to those people out there.
[47:57.510 --> 47:58.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe they don't know what Dorkbot is.
[47:59.030 --> 47:59.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: You want to tell us something about that?
[47:59.950 --> 48:05.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, Dorkbot is a loose organization of people who do interesting things with electricity.
[48:05.490 --> 48:06.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's their tagline.
[48:06.890 --> 48:18.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: And what they do, essentially, is that anything, any kind of project that they have that uses electricity, ranging from robotics to text messaging.
[48:18.050 --> 48:21.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: I actually got the text messaging idea from somebody I met at Dorkbot.
[48:24.890 --> 48:29.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, the SMS technology, it's simple, but it can be used for all kinds of fun.
[48:29.830 --> 48:40.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: It can be used for a lot of things, and unfortunately, it can be used for spam, but we're trying to make it not be used for that, because it really is a great technology, and it's a great way to make an interaction personal.
[48:41.010 --> 48:41.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[48:41.130 --> 48:44.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: Like, you're not communicating with some kind of...
[48:45.190 --> 48:51.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're communicating with something anonymous, but you're communicating personally with it, and you're carrying on a dialogue, especially in this instance.
[48:51.870 --> 48:53.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: What I want is to be...
[48:53.250 --> 48:59.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's for the player to carry on a dialogue with an AI and have...
[48:59.130 --> 49:05.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is it going to be sort of like an adventure game, where you basically are moving around in an area and sending commands and getting responses?
[49:05.930 --> 49:06.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: Pretty much, yeah.
[49:06.970 --> 49:09.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is there any risk of being eaten by a crew?
[49:09.250 --> 49:09.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's true.
[49:10.590 --> 49:10.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[49:10.970 --> 49:11.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Only time will tell.
[49:12.290 --> 49:13.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, all sorts of things.
[49:13.670 --> 49:18.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, this is, of course, old stuff over in Europe, where they've been playing with this kind of thing for ages.
[49:18.670 --> 49:26.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: I remember when they had the blinking lights on the building in Berlin, you could play Pong with your cell phone on the building, you know, with all the lights.
[49:26.670 --> 49:27.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's the most incredible thing.
[49:27.950 --> 49:29.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're not quite there yet, I don't think.
[49:29.910 --> 49:37.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and I really do think it's a shame that we don't have this kind of thing yet, especially in a city like New York, where there are so many buildings you could play Pong on.
[49:37.270 --> 49:37.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: I know.
[49:38.210 --> 49:40.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: The UN is the best one, I think.
[49:40.470 --> 49:40.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, yeah.
[49:40.670 --> 49:42.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: You could play a great game of Pong from Queens or Brooklyn.
[49:42.930 --> 49:47.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: You'd need approval from 100 and something countries, though, just to play one game of Pong.
[49:47.690 --> 49:49.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Only if you ask for approval.
[49:49.250 --> 49:50.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's my motto.
[49:50.730 --> 49:52.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: You only have to get permission if you ask for it.
[49:52.890 --> 49:58.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm just saying, ping pong diplomacy has come a long way in the past however many years, but there may be limits.
[49:58.090 --> 49:59.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: How long have I been waiting to use that line?
[49:59.270 --> 50:00.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just came up with it now.
[50:00.550 --> 50:01.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was good, though.
[50:01.370 --> 50:02.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, definitely.
[50:02.490 --> 50:03.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-295-L.
[50:03.950 --> 50:05.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're down to two calls on the line.
[50:05.270 --> 50:07.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we're over 2,000.
[50:07.290 --> 50:08.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're at 2285.
[50:08.070 --> 50:10.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: So thank you, everybody, for calling in and making us do well again.
[50:10.750 --> 50:11.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Keep calling, though.
[50:11.430 --> 50:11.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, please.
[50:11.970 --> 50:12.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Keep calling.
[50:12.570 --> 50:14.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's only two calls on the line now.
[50:14.530 --> 50:17.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: And the volunteers, they get so sad when there's not that many calls.
[50:17.650 --> 50:20.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a lot of people leaning back in their chairs and dozing off.
[50:20.210 --> 50:21.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: So make sure that doesn't happen.
[50:21.410 --> 50:23.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-295-L.
[50:23.590 --> 50:25.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Arseny is here again with more names to thank.
[50:25.950 --> 50:28.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'll have more trivia for each town that is read.
[50:28.710 --> 50:29.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: What do we have?
[50:29.610 --> 50:33.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: We want to thank Duncan, who's from Harrow Smith, which is in Ontario.
[50:34.170 --> 50:35.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: What's with Ontario all of a sudden?
[50:35.610 --> 50:38.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a great province, but I'm happy to hear from people up there.
[50:38.850 --> 50:40.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: And Duncan has a note for us.
[50:41.010 --> 50:41.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[50:41.350 --> 50:43.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Which is that the Oilers are still in Edmonton.
[50:44.030 --> 50:45.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: I thought they moved.
[50:45.330 --> 50:45.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Really?
[50:46.050 --> 50:46.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[50:46.390 --> 50:47.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sorry, then.
[50:47.930 --> 50:49.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: When was that other team that moved?
[50:49.690 --> 50:50.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: The Calgary Stam...
[50:50.670 --> 50:51.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, that's a football team.
[50:51.770 --> 50:53.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: The Calgary Flames, they moved.
[50:53.790 --> 50:54.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think they're Atlanta.
[50:54.930 --> 50:55.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[50:55.790 --> 50:56.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Keep going.
[50:56.890 --> 50:57.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[50:57.250 --> 50:59.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have Cliff Resnick from Brooklyn, New York.
[50:59.810 --> 51:00.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[51:00.610 --> 51:02.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: We have Mike from Rochester, New York.
[51:02.730 --> 51:03.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[51:03.150 --> 51:04.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: Those are two places in New York.
[51:04.710 --> 51:05.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think that's it.
[51:05.550 --> 51:05.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[51:06.110 --> 51:06.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wait.
[51:06.690 --> 51:09.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're going to tell us two places in New York are both in New York.
[51:09.530 --> 51:11.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're really getting weak here.
[51:11.550 --> 51:14.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Trying to save time here because we're running out of time quickly.
[51:14.050 --> 51:16.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we do have other things that we want to be covering.
[51:17.370 --> 51:19.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Any other hope news?
[51:19.270 --> 51:20.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anything else?
[51:20.270 --> 51:21.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: I know we have a ton of things.
[51:21.710 --> 51:22.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's so many.
[51:22.310 --> 51:23.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: There really is.
[51:23.970 --> 51:26.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not Kevin, you have a telephone project going on?
[51:26.330 --> 51:26.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, yeah.
[51:27.030 --> 51:27.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
[51:27.670 --> 51:29.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is the Telephreak project.
[51:29.470 --> 51:32.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: Project Telephreak is doing some quite neat things.
[51:32.370 --> 51:32.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[51:32.650 --> 51:34.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: We will be showing up with a...
[51:34.190 --> 51:36.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: Who is Telephreak for one thing?
[51:36.850 --> 51:37.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Who is Telephreak?
[51:37.590 --> 51:43.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Telephreak's been a project ongoing for several years now, providing conferences for hackers and phreakers all over the world.
[51:43.850 --> 51:44.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean teleconferences.
[51:45.210 --> 51:45.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Teleconferences, yes.
[51:46.090 --> 51:46.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[51:46.310 --> 51:46.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: The old days.
[51:47.310 --> 51:49.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, yeah, the old days.
[51:49.250 --> 51:54.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Back when we started this show in the 1980s, teleconferences were a major part of the hacking world.
[51:54.210 --> 52:02.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: People would basically get a hold of these corporate teleconferencing lines that were very expensive, by the way, and hook people all over the world together.
[52:03.090 --> 52:12.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: And you'd be able to, back in the day when it cost a lot of money to make phone calls, you'd be able to talk to people anywhere and have maybe, what, 40 people on a phone call at once?
[52:12.090 --> 52:12.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was madness.
[52:13.310 --> 52:14.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: And now we're providing that all over the world.
[52:14.410 --> 52:14.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sorry.
[52:14.770 --> 52:15.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Your microphone somehow went off.
[52:16.470 --> 52:17.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think you were touching it.
[52:17.750 --> 52:18.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's the problem.
[52:18.490 --> 52:18.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't touch anything.
[52:18.990 --> 52:19.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: You did, though.
[52:19.710 --> 52:20.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: But now it doesn't work anymore.
[52:21.370 --> 52:21.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[52:21.850 --> 52:23.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're going to have to use Redbird's mic.
[52:23.330 --> 52:23.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good.
[52:23.990 --> 52:24.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[52:24.750 --> 52:25.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sorry.
[52:26.270 --> 52:32.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: So anyways, as I was saying, we now provide these conferences for free using voice over IP.
[52:32.330 --> 52:39.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: And at HOPE, we are bringing in a asterisk box and allowing people to call out to almost anywhere in the world.
[52:40.630 --> 52:41.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wow.
[52:41.310 --> 52:46.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: So those people who have not yet experienced the thrill of cheap or free phone calls will be able to do so there.
[52:46.530 --> 52:46.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[52:46.910 --> 52:52.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: And with several of the little goodies we'll be throwing in, we are rebuilding the old 2600 BBS system.
[52:52.610 --> 52:53.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: The voice BBS?
[52:53.510 --> 52:53.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[52:53.710 --> 52:54.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, boy.
[52:54.650 --> 52:55.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: I thought that was dead.
[52:56.390 --> 52:57.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it's coming back.
[52:57.370 --> 52:58.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's coming back to haunt you again.
[52:59.190 --> 52:59.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, how wonderful.
[53:00.790 --> 53:01.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, okay.
[53:01.590 --> 53:04.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: So people will be able to make phone calls anywhere in the world?
[53:04.470 --> 53:04.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Almost.
[53:05.510 --> 53:10.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, like, I guess not to Antarctica maybe or not to ships at sea or...
[53:10.290 --> 53:12.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Basically, European and Asian cell phones.
[53:13.070 --> 53:14.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's about it.
[53:14.150 --> 53:15.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can't call European or Asian cell phones.
[53:15.850 --> 53:17.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can I call Diego Garcia?
[53:18.050 --> 53:19.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's only one way to find out.
[53:19.730 --> 53:19.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[53:20.670 --> 53:23.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Someone sent me Robert Mugabe's phone number recently, so...
[53:23.710 --> 53:24.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's call it.
[53:24.270 --> 53:25.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: We could call that.
[53:25.150 --> 53:25.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: It might be a cell phone.
[53:25.890 --> 53:26.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not sure.
[53:26.350 --> 53:27.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Isn't he busy?
[53:27.590 --> 53:32.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, we'll make sure we call it a time when he's probably not busy, like four in the morning or something.
[53:32.330 --> 53:40.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: And for all the people who won't be able to make it to the conference, we will be providing an in-house voice conference for people outside to call in and talk to people inside.
[53:40.890 --> 53:43.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: But those of you who think you can't make it to the conference, think again.
[53:44.230 --> 53:48.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because, you know, these things succeed when a lot of people show up and participate.
[53:49.070 --> 53:50.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not just show up and watch.
[53:50.250 --> 53:51.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Show up and participate.
[53:51.550 --> 53:52.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Use your brain.
[53:52.490 --> 53:53.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Use your imagination.
[53:53.730 --> 53:54.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Come up with your own projects.
[53:56.010 --> 53:56.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Mingle with people.
[53:57.070 --> 53:57.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Meet people.
[53:57.630 --> 54:01.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: What has happened at these conferences is simply incredible.
[54:01.610 --> 54:04.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: People get jobs because they meet prospective employers.
[54:04.710 --> 54:06.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: People make friends for life.
[54:06.550 --> 54:10.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: People have even met their future spouses at these things.
[54:10.830 --> 54:19.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's unbelievable what happens when you mix thousands of people together who have interest and curiosity and things like that.
[54:19.210 --> 54:24.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, by all means, do whatever you have to do to make it to HOPE this July.
[54:24.070 --> 54:29.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, I know on the forums, we have HOPE forums, discussion board at talk.hope.net.
[54:29.990 --> 54:36.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have an ongoing discussion there about cheap airfares and cheap places to stay in case the hotel is a little too pricey for you.
[54:37.150 --> 54:39.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, if you have a question, go to talk.hope.net.
[54:40.150 --> 54:40.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Ask somebody.
[54:40.830 --> 54:45.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Somebody will be able to help you and figure out a way to get you here for cheap or next to nothing.
[54:45.830 --> 54:52.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Seriously, though, if you're from anywhere but the United States, the dollar is worthless these days, so you can basically come for free anyway.
[54:52.250 --> 54:54.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think that's why we have so many Canadians pledging tonight.
[54:54.630 --> 54:55.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is that how it works?
[54:55.450 --> 54:59.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I know the last conference, we had so many Canadians come to the conference.
[54:59.370 --> 55:00.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: We really did.
[55:00.070 --> 55:00.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: A lot of Canadians.
[55:01.690 --> 55:03.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that could be a reason right there.
[55:03.330 --> 55:05.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: But the Canadian dollar now is equal to the American dollar.
[55:05.450 --> 55:06.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, pretty much.
[55:06.450 --> 55:06.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[55:06.770 --> 55:10.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: But we always get a lot of people from overseas as well, and we hope that continues.
[55:11.150 --> 55:12.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, things are more expensive.
[55:12.670 --> 55:13.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Gas is more expensive.
[55:13.570 --> 55:14.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Airfares are more expensive.
[55:14.530 --> 55:15.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: But we're hackers.
[55:15.930 --> 55:17.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: We can figure out ways around things.
[55:17.970 --> 55:19.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we're determined.
[55:19.410 --> 55:24.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, hopefully, something like money, something like high prices won't stop you.
[55:25.130 --> 55:25.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[55:25.990 --> 55:32.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Again, our phone number here for the fundraiser that we're in the middle of at WBAI is 212-209-2950.
[55:32.970 --> 55:38.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: But we're talking about the HOPE Conference, and information on that can be found at www.hope.net.
[55:39.490 --> 55:44.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, there's just like five minutes left to get these premiums and support the station at the same time.
[55:44.550 --> 55:45.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's absolutely true.
[55:45.450 --> 55:46.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's absolutely true.
[55:46.690 --> 55:50.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we hope to hear a good response.
[55:51.570 --> 55:52.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not only now.
[55:52.970 --> 55:53.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sorry.
[55:53.130 --> 55:53.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Don't mind the Germans.
[55:56.150 --> 56:01.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: But we hope to have, I guess, what, two months left before the conference begins?
[56:01.950 --> 56:03.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Almost exactly two months, right?
[56:03.330 --> 56:04.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: We better get working.
[56:05.090 --> 56:05.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[56:05.450 --> 56:06.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: We better start organizing this thing, right?
[56:08.010 --> 56:19.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: We hope to keep building to a rising crescendo and get as many people involved as we possibly can from all different varieties of backgrounds with all sorts of ideas.
[56:19.410 --> 56:24.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not too late to pitch your idea to the various people running various things.
[56:24.090 --> 56:27.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Again, projects at HOPE.net if you have an idea for one of the projects.
[56:27.530 --> 56:32.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you want to give a talk, we have a lot of talks, but we still are able to squeeze in some more.
[56:32.070 --> 56:35.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're trying to get another track of talks in as well.
[56:35.370 --> 56:38.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: So send your ideas to speakers at HOPE.net.
[56:39.810 --> 56:43.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if you want to sell something, well, we have vendor tables.
[56:43.870 --> 56:44.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Vendors.
[56:44.930 --> 56:45.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Vendors or vendor?
[56:46.390 --> 56:47.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Vendors with an S.
[56:47.390 --> 56:48.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I think they both work.
[56:48.210 --> 56:49.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Vendors at HOPE.net.
[56:50.450 --> 56:54.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if you want to volunteer to help us out, because it takes a lot of volunteer effort, volunteers.
[56:55.590 --> 56:56.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or volunteer.
[56:56.470 --> 56:57.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or one of those, at HOPE.net.
[56:58.070 --> 56:58.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: They both work.
[56:58.970 --> 56:59.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Mitch.
[57:00.050 --> 57:08.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I just wanted to say I'm going to be giving an ongoing workshop where people can build brain machines for just the cost of the parts.
[57:08.770 --> 57:10.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: And also TV-B-Gone kits.
[57:10.950 --> 57:14.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I'll show people how to do all sorts of cool things with microcontrollers.
[57:14.410 --> 57:34.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: So basically, we're going to have a recreation of the scene in Germany last conference, the last German hacker conference that took place in the summer, where we see people from all over the world with little flashing lights in front of their eyes to sort of mesmerize by the brain machines that they've just built.
[57:35.390 --> 57:44.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, a little chaotic, crazy community formed around the workshop, and all these people are blissing out to their inner world.
[57:44.730 --> 57:47.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: People come by wondering, what is going on here?
[57:47.670 --> 57:52.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then they try it out, and many people went away with their own brain machines that they built at the workshop.
[57:52.650 --> 57:54.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: It just was the most incredible sight, seeing all these people.
[57:54.950 --> 58:00.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I believe you described it with people, these very content smiles on their faces as they're busy building things.
[58:01.490 --> 58:04.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's just something that you bring to all these conferences and places that you go.
[58:05.150 --> 58:06.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's really easy.
[58:06.790 --> 58:13.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: I would always get letters in grade school that I have very poor, fine motor skills, is what they call it.
[58:13.590 --> 58:17.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: And Mitch was able to teach me how to make a TV-B-Gone at one of the German conferences.
[58:17.990 --> 58:19.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: So surely anyone can do it.
[58:19.570 --> 58:21.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: You said you couldn't solder to save your life.
[58:21.770 --> 58:26.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not sure how soldering would save my life, but I'd be in real trouble.
[58:26.930 --> 58:28.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: One day we're going to figure out a way.
[58:28.710 --> 58:34.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: But yes, that's also going to be at the conference, so by all means, we hope to see people there as well.
[58:34.330 --> 58:36.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, we're only $65 away.
[58:36.310 --> 58:37.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, no, we're over $2,600.
[58:37.730 --> 58:41.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, I was going to say we were $65 away, but now we're over $2,600.
[58:41.330 --> 58:42.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: It doesn't mean people can't still call.
[58:42.910 --> 58:44.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: You only have a couple minutes, though.
[58:44.690 --> 58:46.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2950.
[58:46.290 --> 58:58.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Again, very quickly, $25 for a T-shirt, $50 for a sweatshirt and a T-shirt, $100, one admission to the HOPE conference, and a full DVD archive of the previous HOPE conference, HOPE Number Six.
[58:58.950 --> 59:03.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: And $150, two tickets, plus the archive, plus the Off The Hook T-shirt.
[59:04.430 --> 59:05.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2950.
[59:06.090 --> 59:07.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Are those names you have to thank?
[59:07.230 --> 59:09.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, these are the same people we already thanked.
[59:09.110 --> 59:17.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: But we just want to say that any pledge from $10 to $1,000 also keeps Off The Hook and keeps WBAI on the air, and we want to thank you for that.
[59:17.430 --> 59:18.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, I want to thank everybody for calling in.
[59:18.790 --> 59:21.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: We'll be back again next week with yet another action-packed show.
[59:21.070 --> 59:26.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I want to thank Lex, Derevin, Mitch, Phil, and everybody else for stopping in and saying hi.
[59:27.330 --> 59:31.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we'll see a bunch of you in Dayton, Ohio, for the Dayton Hamvention this coming weekend.
[59:31.750 --> 59:40.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: In fact, not Kevin and I, we're going to be driving a 2600 van across New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia, and I think that's it.
[59:41.270 --> 59:42.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Starting late tonight.
[59:42.510 --> 59:46.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: So line up alongside the interstate and wave as we pass by.
[59:46.890 --> 59:47.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[59:47.650 --> 59:48.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: See you next week.