Off The Hook - 2008-10-29

[00:00.000 --> 00:06.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: Listener supporters, you can send us your feedback by emailing us at comments at fsrn.org.
[00:06.980 --> 00:10.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Our newscast is produced by Catherine Komp and Vinod K.
[00:10.760 --> 00:11.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: Joes.
[00:11.200 --> 00:12.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: Our Washington, D.C.
[00:12.480 --> 00:16.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: editor is Leanne Caldwell, and our headlines editors are Nell Abram and Jess Burns.
[00:16.980 --> 00:23.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: Our technical production team at KPFA in Berkeley includes Puck Lowe, Rose Katopchi, and Oscar Hernandez.
[00:24.100 --> 00:28.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: From Pacifica Station, KPFK in Los Angeles, I'm Aura Bogado.
[00:33.870 --> 00:36.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI, New York.
[00:36.930 --> 00:40.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: The time is 7 o'clock, and that means it's time once again for Off The Hook.
[00:46.180 --> 00:50.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:51.600 --> 00:56.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[00:56.880 --> 01:04.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: We couldn't get much worse, with Bundilly Bump for the best, expect the worst.
[01:04.980 --> 01:08.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hope that's understood, Bundilly Bump!
[02:18.980 --> 02:20.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, are we all together here?
[02:20.660 --> 02:25.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right, we've got a crowded room full of people trying to figure out how to give everybody headphones and microphones and things like that.
[02:25.820 --> 02:28.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: Good evening, another exciting, action-packed edition of Off The Hook.
[02:30.140 --> 02:34.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: This special pre-election day edition of the program.
[02:35.280 --> 02:38.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: And boy, we have everybody under the sun here today, it seems like.
[02:39.120 --> 02:40.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: Let's see, where do we begin?
[02:41.500 --> 02:42.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, Bernie S.
[02:42.380 --> 02:43.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: down there in Philadelphia.
[02:43.580 --> 02:44.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:44.520 --> 02:46.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: Great time we had at PumpCon, by the way.
[02:46.740 --> 02:47.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: Thanks for having me.
[02:47.280 --> 02:48.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: It is a good conference.
[02:48.860 --> 02:50.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Unfortunately, it's not big enough to hold everybody.
[02:50.740 --> 02:52.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, fortunately, it is big enough not to hold...
[02:52.740 --> 02:55.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, it isn't big enough not to hold everybody, because if it did, then it wouldn't be PumpCon.
[02:56.560 --> 02:57.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a good point.
[02:57.660 --> 02:58.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I think it is.
[02:59.300 --> 03:01.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: We have Dot Red over there on the other side of the studio.
[03:02.000 --> 03:02.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hello, hello.
[03:03.140 --> 03:05.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: Not Kevin on a different side of the studio.
[03:05.460 --> 03:05.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hello.
[03:05.980 --> 03:06.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: We have Mike.
[03:07.000 --> 03:07.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hi.
[03:14.520 --> 03:16.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: Special from Washington, D.C.
[03:16.260 --> 03:17.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: is Mark Tobias.
[03:17.680 --> 03:18.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: Good evening.
[03:18.620 --> 03:19.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: And welcome.
[03:19.720 --> 03:19.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: Welcome.
[03:20.140 --> 03:21.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: You took the train or something?
[03:21.960 --> 03:22.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: I did, this afternoon.
[03:22.980 --> 03:23.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Wow.
[03:23.460 --> 03:23.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[03:24.200 --> 03:35.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: And Mark, for those of you who may not know, is one of our speakers at the Hope Conference speaking on issues of locks and Medico and all kinds of cool, neat stuff like that.
[03:35.320 --> 03:36.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: Always working on some project.
[03:36.860 --> 03:38.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: Anything you want to reveal that you're up to now?
[03:38.880 --> 03:44.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, we're exploring some technologies that we'll probably announce later this year.
[03:44.080 --> 03:44.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh-huh.
[03:45.160 --> 03:45.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: Cool.
[03:45.820 --> 03:49.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: We found something that's a lot of fun that we've been playing with the last couple of days.
[03:50.820 --> 03:55.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's a way to look up your status in the election.
[03:55.680 --> 04:01.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: Actually, for New York State, it's a way to look up how you're registered and where you're supposed to vote.
[04:01.760 --> 04:03.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: You need to know your name.
[04:03.380 --> 04:04.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: You need to know your name.
[04:04.420 --> 04:05.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: You need to know your birth date.
[04:05.680 --> 04:07.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: And you need to know your ZIP Code.
[04:07.480 --> 04:08.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right?
[04:08.280 --> 04:09.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, I'll give you the URL.
[04:10.080 --> 04:12.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's a very crazy long URL.
[04:12.300 --> 04:15.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: And then I'll give you the tiny URL that I made up so that it would be a little bit easier.
[04:16.680 --> 04:27.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's the original URL, HTTPS colon slash slash voterlookup.elections.state.ny.us slash votersearch.aspx.
[04:28.760 --> 04:30.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Boy, what a pain that is to type.
[04:30.580 --> 04:33.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: Or you can type tinyurl.com.
[04:33.600 --> 04:38.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's T-I-N-Y-U-R-L dot com slash 4XQ72U.
[04:38.760 --> 04:41.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's all, 4XQ72U on tinyurl.
[04:42.540 --> 04:44.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: We all look each other up or look ourselves up?
[04:45.160 --> 04:46.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: I look myself up.
[04:46.220 --> 04:46.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm there.
[04:46.640 --> 04:49.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: I look myself up and I'm there, but only at my old address.
[04:49.860 --> 04:52.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I don't know what will happen when I try and vote.
[04:52.300 --> 04:54.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: Did you remember to register with your new address?
[04:54.180 --> 04:54.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: I did.
[04:54.460 --> 04:55.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: I even have...
[04:55.420 --> 04:58.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: I should have brought it in just to wave it around for the radio audience to see.
[04:59.040 --> 05:04.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: A piece of paper directed to me at my new address thanking me for updating the Board of Elections.
[05:04.640 --> 05:08.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: I wouldn't wave that piece of paper around until Election Day when you're going to need it because...
[05:08.160 --> 05:10.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I wave it around very carefully.
[05:10.220 --> 05:19.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, because you need to show it to the people there and make sure that they recognize and allow you to vote and then get on the subway and go to your old address and vote a second time to see if you can do it anyway.
[05:19.900 --> 05:22.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, what I imagine will happen is...
[05:22.960 --> 05:28.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, one possibility is that the website is just wrong and actually some other computer knows about the change and I'll be fine.
[05:28.920 --> 05:32.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: The other possibility is I'll have to file something called an affidavit ballot.
[05:34.040 --> 05:38.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, those ballots, when you do that, they count them after everything else is counted, right?
[05:39.180 --> 05:39.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
[05:39.540 --> 05:42.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: Sometimes they don't even count them at all if they don't think it's going to sway the election.
[05:42.920 --> 05:48.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: This happened to me before, the last time I moved, or actually a year after the last time I moved.
[05:48.960 --> 05:52.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: The last time I moved, it was okay, but one year later, somehow I got lost.
[05:53.860 --> 05:58.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they then sent me a postcard saying that they had, in fact, counted my affidavit ballot.
[05:58.680 --> 05:59.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: So who knows?
[05:59.040 --> 06:05.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: What I'm wondering is all these advanced, early voters that are out there, are they going to count them the same way?
[06:05.140 --> 06:07.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: After everybody else is counted, are they going to count them at the same time?
[06:08.240 --> 06:09.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think they count them at the same time.
[06:09.820 --> 06:11.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: What you're talking about is a provisional ballot.
[06:12.020 --> 06:12.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[06:12.640 --> 06:16.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they're the last to be counted because there may be an identification issue.
[06:17.340 --> 06:18.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: You might be challenged.
[06:18.360 --> 06:19.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: It might be.
[06:19.140 --> 06:20.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or to prevent fraud.
[06:21.180 --> 06:21.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[06:23.260 --> 06:25.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not a big fan, though, of affidavit votes.
[06:25.880 --> 06:28.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: The last time I did that, it wasn't even counted at all.
[06:28.160 --> 06:28.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: How do you know?
[06:28.980 --> 06:30.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because they told me.
[06:30.880 --> 06:34.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: They contacted you and said, by the way, .ret, your vote has not been counted.
[06:34.280 --> 06:35.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, they called me .ret as well.
[06:36.700 --> 06:36.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: Amazing.
[06:37.300 --> 06:40.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: So the thing with this neat little site, and again, this is just for New York.
[06:40.260 --> 06:41.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know if there's one for New Jersey.
[06:41.440 --> 06:42.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know if there's one for Pennsylvania.
[06:43.060 --> 06:44.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: Do you know anything about that, Bernie, if there's something like that?
[06:45.560 --> 06:47.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: They had provisional ballots in Pennsylvania.
[06:47.980 --> 06:50.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: I had to use one two years ago in the midterm election.
[06:50.180 --> 06:51.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't mean provisional ballots.
[06:51.420 --> 06:54.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean a website that tells you where you registered.
[06:54.060 --> 06:55.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: I have looked.
[06:55.600 --> 06:56.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: I could not find one.
[06:56.920 --> 07:08.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: But just to be sure, a couple, three weeks ago, I went to our voter registration here in Philadelphia just to make sure that I was still registered at the address I've always been.
[07:08.820 --> 07:11.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: And because two years ago, they screwed that up.
[07:12.100 --> 07:14.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: And indeed, I am still registered where I should be.
[07:14.100 --> 07:15.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I'll keep my fingers crossed.
[07:15.620 --> 07:21.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, using the magic of Wikipedia, we were able to go through a couple of lists of people.
[07:21.940 --> 07:29.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: And we found that Hillary Rodden Clinton is registered to 15 Old House Lane in Chappaqua, New York, ZIP Code 10514.
[07:29.900 --> 07:31.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, how did we get that information?
[07:32.060 --> 07:35.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: We got that from Wikipedia, which tells us where she resides.
[07:36.020 --> 07:37.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: And also when she was born.
[07:37.560 --> 07:37.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, wait.
[07:37.740 --> 07:38.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: Does Wikipedia have the address?
[07:39.140 --> 07:40.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wikipedia did not have the address.
[07:40.700 --> 07:43.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: It just had Chappaqua, I believe.
[07:43.780 --> 07:44.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[07:44.120 --> 07:48.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, the address was furnished to us by the New York State Board of Elections.
[07:49.080 --> 07:50.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, they were nice enough to give us that.
[07:50.700 --> 07:51.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: That information is there.
[07:51.740 --> 07:56.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: All you have to do is enter somebody's name, enter their ZIP Code, enter their date of birth, which was found on Wikipedia.
[07:57.060 --> 08:03.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: And we also know that her voter status is active and she's registered with, ready for this, the Democratic Political Party.
[08:03.980 --> 08:04.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: What's that?
[08:04.700 --> 08:10.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: She will be voting at 650 King Street in Chappaqua at the Graflin School.
[08:11.060 --> 08:17.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, Bill O'Reilly, on the other hand, lives at 33 Shore Drive in Manhasset, New York, on Long Island.
[08:17.720 --> 08:18.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: I didn't know that.
[08:18.400 --> 08:20.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: He's registered with the Independence Party.
[08:20.180 --> 08:21.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: He's also active voter status.
[08:22.180 --> 08:27.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: He will be voting at the Plan Dome Village Hall, 65 South Drive in Plan Dome, New York, right?
[08:27.700 --> 08:28.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's on Long Island.
[08:28.400 --> 08:36.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: So you can arrange to greet people as they stroll through the voter registration process, courtesy of all this public information that's out there.
[08:36.040 --> 08:37.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, that's kind of shocking.
[08:37.680 --> 08:39.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, of course, this is nothing new.
[08:39.680 --> 08:43.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: The list of voters has always been public information.
[08:43.440 --> 08:45.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's just maybe not been this easy to get our hands on.
[08:46.180 --> 08:54.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, usually you have to either go to the board or call the board or call a company that got the complete list from the board.
[08:55.000 --> 08:57.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: But now they're entering the 21st century.
[08:57.740 --> 08:58.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Amazing.
[08:58.260 --> 09:03.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've also been informed from Junts that New Jersey has a similar website.
[09:03.820 --> 09:05.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: Did Junts inform us what the website is?
[09:05.720 --> 09:06.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, he did not.
[09:06.520 --> 09:10.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, why doesn't Junts give us full information rather than just hints of information?
[09:10.220 --> 09:20.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Because that would be really cool for our New Jersey listeners to be able to look themselves up and see if they're registered and look up other people, too, celebrities and politicians and things like that, to see where they're registered to and what parties.
[09:21.080 --> 09:24.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: Sometimes you find some interesting revelations.
[09:24.540 --> 09:30.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, some of my friends are registered Republicans, and they claim to do that so that they could sway the primaries.
[09:30.500 --> 09:31.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: But I don't know.
[09:31.460 --> 09:33.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Not really a useful tactic in New York.
[09:34.460 --> 09:35.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, definitely not in New York.
[09:36.820 --> 09:42.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, so since we're standing on the precipice of an historic election here in this country...
[09:42.520 --> 09:43.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: I just have one question.
[09:43.080 --> 09:43.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Go ahead.
[09:43.440 --> 09:44.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Will it be over soon?
[09:44.480 --> 09:45.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think so.
[09:45.500 --> 09:47.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: Although, you know, you never know when...
[09:47.980 --> 09:51.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: We could be still debating this next week and the week after that.
[09:52.060 --> 09:52.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's entirely possible.
[09:52.920 --> 10:01.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: But it's also entirely possible that come Tuesday night, something will change very dramatically in this country, at least the feeling, the expectation.
[10:02.040 --> 10:10.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I just realized something, too, that a lot of people are putting all kinds of faith in Barack Obama and hoping for some kind of change.
[10:11.100 --> 10:12.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: None of this would be possible without George W.
[10:12.900 --> 10:13.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bush.
[10:13.420 --> 10:14.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't think if we...
[10:14.700 --> 10:15.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: Serious.
[10:15.180 --> 10:16.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: If we didn't have George W.
[10:17.020 --> 10:24.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bush in power for eight years doing the things that he did, I don't think someone like Barack Obama could ever have stood a chance of being elected.
[10:24.500 --> 10:25.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: I really don't think so.
[10:25.980 --> 10:28.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I think we probably would have a McCain in the White House.
[10:29.180 --> 10:35.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, I know, Mark Tobias, you had some feelings that you were voicing out in the hallway about John McCain.
[10:35.320 --> 10:36.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'd like to give everybody just a couple of minutes.
[10:36.520 --> 10:40.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: I know it's not a political show, but we are standing on the, like I said, the precipice of history here.
[10:40.640 --> 10:46.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I'd like to hear people's opinions so that I can listen back to this someday and laugh.
[10:46.360 --> 10:50.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, first of all, I worked for a Republican governor for 16 years.
[10:50.760 --> 10:51.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: Which one?
[10:51.360 --> 10:52.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Jan Klo in South Dakota.
[10:52.920 --> 10:53.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: Ah.
[10:53.320 --> 10:57.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: And who was fairly close to George Bush and his father.
[10:59.540 --> 11:04.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: My, as a lawyer, I've been very concerned about the Bush administration and the Justice Department.
[11:04.820 --> 11:12.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is really one of the first times that the Justice Department has been politicized.
[11:12.300 --> 11:13.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Usually, it's been hands-off.
[11:14.100 --> 11:16.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: And in this administration, it hasn't.
[11:17.260 --> 11:23.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: They really, in my view, have had contempt for the Constitution and contempt for the Congress.
[11:25.000 --> 11:27.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: And for six years, they had a rubber stamp.
[11:27.360 --> 11:31.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: And so, hopefully, the administration will change for the good.
[11:31.140 --> 11:35.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I cannot imagine, if John McCain gets elected, that anything would change.
[11:37.520 --> 11:46.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: McCain has announced that, of course, he's in favor of more surveillance, more PATRIOT Act restrictions, you know, to fight the terrorists.
[11:47.160 --> 11:50.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: And from my perspective as a lawyer, it's been a disaster.
[11:50.940 --> 11:53.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's been very disturbing what's happened in the United States.
[11:53.820 --> 11:54.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've never been political.
[11:55.300 --> 11:59.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm actually a Democrat, but I've also always worked for Republican administrations.
[12:00.320 --> 12:03.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I just, I hope there's a change in this country.
[12:03.160 --> 12:04.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Otherwise, I think we're going to be in a lot of trouble.
[12:05.120 --> 12:13.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: I, for McCain, as we were talking in the hall, to have picked Sarah Palin, I, it's even, even...
[12:13.160 --> 12:14.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Shows he has a sense of humor.
[12:14.520 --> 12:15.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not a sense of humor.
[12:15.900 --> 12:18.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: It shows that it's McCain first and not America first.
[12:19.280 --> 12:27.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because of the likelihood that he could become sick, incapacitate, or die in office, if we woke up with Sarah Palin as president, we'd be in a lot of trouble.
[12:27.500 --> 12:30.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: But we would know when Putin was flying over Alaska.
[12:30.700 --> 12:31.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's true.
[12:31.460 --> 12:31.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[12:31.940 --> 12:33.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: She'd see him taking off.
[12:33.340 --> 12:34.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, right.
[12:34.900 --> 12:35.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[12:35.660 --> 12:39.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: Who next wants to spout some rhetoric or opinions?
[12:39.660 --> 12:40.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, come on.
[12:40.600 --> 12:42.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Don't be shy here.
[12:42.800 --> 12:49.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I don't go out for rhetoric much, but I think my position on the coming election basically boils down to Obama sucks less.
[12:49.940 --> 12:50.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[12:51.820 --> 12:53.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's pretty much where I stand.
[12:53.060 --> 12:53.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: Isn't that good enough?
[12:54.220 --> 12:55.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, that's not good enough.
[12:55.560 --> 12:55.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[12:56.180 --> 12:58.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Rhett, tell us your opinion on that.
[12:59.160 --> 12:59.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know.
[12:59.540 --> 13:03.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Just to his last statement, you know, I don't like the idea of choosing the lesser of two evils.
[13:03.960 --> 13:05.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: I should be able to choose a good.
[13:05.380 --> 13:05.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[13:05.900 --> 13:06.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: A perfect candidate.
[13:06.040 --> 13:07.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you could choose a perfect.
[13:07.520 --> 13:08.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Who is perfect?
[13:08.340 --> 13:09.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's what I'd like to know.
[13:09.200 --> 13:10.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: There has never been somebody who's perfect.
[13:10.760 --> 13:12.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that's why I am not very hopeful.
[13:13.120 --> 13:16.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Most presidents I've ever seen, they all do the same thing either way.
[13:16.680 --> 13:32.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: But don't you think that if Tuesday night comes around and Obama gets elected, there's all these celebrations in the street nationwide and people feel like things are changing, even if things aren't really changing, won't that feeling maybe inspire some true change?
[13:32.760 --> 13:33.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Possibly.
[13:33.440 --> 13:37.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Or the hopes could be crushed and there's only one way to find out.
[13:38.040 --> 13:39.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, then we have something more to complain about.
[13:41.160 --> 13:43.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Look, nobody knows what Obama will do if he's president.
[13:44.480 --> 13:53.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Everybody's got a pretty good idea what McCain will do, but at least Obama has the intellectual capacity to pick, no, seriously, to pick people around him that can make change.
[13:53.740 --> 13:54.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, and he can string a sentence together.
[13:55.040 --> 13:58.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: And can do things and understands the environmental problems and I think the economic problems.
[13:58.900 --> 14:02.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: The real question is whether anybody can fix America now.
[14:02.780 --> 14:14.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, and I have to say about McCain, even if I agreed with everything he said and thought he was wonderful and stuff, I do not think this is a good point in our history to elect the oldest first-term president that we've ever had.
[14:15.600 --> 14:16.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's amazing.
[14:16.300 --> 14:18.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: He's older than Reagan was when he was elected.
[14:18.960 --> 14:19.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's something.
[14:19.740 --> 14:26.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Because I remember back when Reagan was elected, way before the time of a lot of people in this room, he was so old.
[14:26.320 --> 14:28.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: He was really considered ancient and wow.
[14:28.760 --> 14:30.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: I guess it's something to be said about our lifespan.
[14:30.560 --> 14:32.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: It must be increasing or something.
[14:32.820 --> 14:37.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: There's this great website that I've been following called thingsyoungerthanMcCain.com.
[14:38.780 --> 14:39.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: And every...
[14:39.740 --> 14:40.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: What's on there?
[14:40.560 --> 14:40.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[14:41.020 --> 14:48.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's just a blog where the admin posts every day something different that's younger than John McCain.
[14:48.900 --> 14:50.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: Any examples spring to mind?
[14:50.800 --> 14:52.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, off the top of my head, I'm not...
[14:52.540 --> 14:54.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, the state of Alaska is one of them.
[14:55.160 --> 14:56.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: The state of Alaska is younger than McCain.
[14:56.260 --> 15:02.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, the summary is almost everything that we use in our daily lives that's younger than John McCain.
[15:02.760 --> 15:03.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: Amazing.
[15:03.700 --> 15:06.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I mean, well, electricity was discovered.
[15:08.260 --> 15:10.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, telephones or a car.
[15:10.480 --> 15:10.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.
[15:11.120 --> 15:12.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: There are definitely...
[15:12.020 --> 15:12.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: What year was he born?
[15:13.600 --> 15:14.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: He's...
[15:14.040 --> 15:14.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: What is he?
[15:14.420 --> 15:14.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: 72.
[15:15.020 --> 15:16.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: So it was 36.
[15:16.060 --> 15:18.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, we have octogenarians who listen to our radio program.
[15:18.440 --> 15:27.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, I mean, I think they would appreciate more than anybody the, you know, the way things have changed over the years and the incredible differences that have taken place.
[15:27.660 --> 15:37.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: But I think they'd also appreciate that, you know, somebody starting out at that age to be leading the country might not be the best move.
[15:38.000 --> 15:42.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: Might not be the energy level you need, you know?
[15:42.740 --> 15:42.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[15:42.920 --> 15:45.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's not just pointing and laughing and going, oh, he's old.
[15:45.340 --> 15:53.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: But if you punch up some pictures of past presidents when they started their terms and then when they came to the end of their terms, the job ages you.
[15:53.400 --> 15:55.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: They all aged far past the years they were sitting in office.
[15:55.960 --> 15:57.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe it'll indigger him.
[15:57.680 --> 15:58.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe he'll go in the opposite direction.
[15:58.920 --> 16:00.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know what it'll do to him.
[16:00.260 --> 16:01.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I'm kind of afraid to find out.
[16:01.580 --> 16:05.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't think it's the age so much because in Europe, there's a lot of elderly leaders.
[16:05.340 --> 16:08.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's the erratic nature of his campaign and his decision making.
[16:08.580 --> 16:11.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I think that's what everybody ought to be concerned about.
[16:11.220 --> 16:17.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: He really did seem to pull out all stops in proving that with suspending his campaign to go to Washington to fix the economy.
[16:17.640 --> 16:18.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: Nice job there.
[16:18.740 --> 16:19.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Picking Sarah Palin.
[16:20.560 --> 16:25.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: Going to states where he doesn't have much of a chance of winning at all and ignoring the swing states.
[16:25.960 --> 16:26.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: It doesn't...
[16:26.400 --> 16:28.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's really kind of bizarre the way this campaign has been run.
[16:28.980 --> 16:35.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: And the most recent thing are the back and forth between the Palin people and the McCain people.
[16:35.660 --> 16:37.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: They're swiping insults at each other.
[16:37.620 --> 16:39.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: You don't do that in a campaign.
[16:39.140 --> 16:40.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not just a campaign.
[16:40.540 --> 16:42.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think McCain's been out there long enough.
[16:42.820 --> 16:46.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: The public is beginning to look at this as his ability to lead.
[16:46.980 --> 16:49.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: And how would he get along with Palin?
[16:49.800 --> 16:49.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[16:50.040 --> 16:50.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: If he can't even...
[16:50.940 --> 16:53.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're infighting now, which is just great.
[16:54.000 --> 16:54.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's one person.
[16:54.280 --> 16:54.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's incredible.
[16:55.460 --> 16:58.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: And so how would this work in the White House?
[16:58.280 --> 17:01.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think Sarah Palin has got a taste of national office.
[17:01.480 --> 17:11.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's incredible how the unnamed high-level sources in the Republican Party now are saying that she's a whack job and that she's out for herself.
[17:11.540 --> 17:12.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Did you see the headline?
[17:12.320 --> 17:13.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: She's gone rogue.
[17:13.540 --> 17:13.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[17:13.780 --> 17:14.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, no.
[17:14.140 --> 17:14.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's incredible.
[17:14.660 --> 17:16.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's a brilliant headline that was.
[17:16.260 --> 17:18.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because she got a taste of what it would be like.
[17:18.540 --> 17:20.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's incredible to me.
[17:20.580 --> 17:25.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: She thinks she's going to be head of the Republican Party and that she's going to run for president in 2012.
[17:25.740 --> 17:26.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[17:26.340 --> 17:27.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bernie, anything from you?
[17:28.220 --> 17:39.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, besides a lot of other reasons, Obama has taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago for several years.
[17:39.600 --> 17:58.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought that, based on the last eight years, where our president seemed to disregard the Constitution at almost every turn, including separation of powers, and have almost a maniacal penchant for secrecy of public, what should be public information,
[17:58.980 --> 18:09.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: it would be refreshing to have an intelligent person who is well-versed in constitutional law in our highest office.
[18:09.360 --> 18:10.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: It would be refreshing.
[18:11.380 --> 18:12.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I don't know if we can handle it.
[18:12.660 --> 18:15.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's going to be definitely unusual if that does happen.
[18:16.020 --> 18:20.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: Red Hack, not Kevin, any thoughts on the political process?
[18:20.160 --> 18:21.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: Not Kevin, is this your first election voting?
[18:22.340 --> 18:24.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: The first time I'll actually get out and vote, yes.
[18:25.420 --> 18:28.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: Wait, you mean that you could have voted before, but you didn't?
[18:28.200 --> 18:28.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
[18:28.720 --> 18:29.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: And why didn't you vote before?
[18:30.940 --> 18:31.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, laziness?
[18:32.160 --> 18:32.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: Laziness.
[18:33.080 --> 18:36.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: Laziness to walk down to a polling station and pull some levers.
[18:36.320 --> 18:37.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's very hard.
[18:37.720 --> 18:39.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: What's so hard about that?
[18:39.840 --> 18:41.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Moving, walking, registering.
[18:42.540 --> 18:45.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm not putting it on the spot here, but I think you might reflect a lot of people.
[18:46.020 --> 18:47.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: A lot of people have this same feeling.
[18:47.460 --> 18:51.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: And especially if people think it's a foregone conclusion how the election's going to go, a lot of people might not show up.
[18:52.040 --> 18:56.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, uh, don't be like not Kevin, because maybe that'll make a difference.
[18:56.320 --> 18:56.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Red Hack.
[18:57.200 --> 19:00.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: I hope that this election will go the way that I want it to go.
[19:00.140 --> 19:01.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: What does that mean?
[19:01.720 --> 19:02.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I didn't last time.
[19:03.260 --> 19:03.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh-huh.
[19:04.700 --> 19:05.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Last time being 2004.
[19:06.260 --> 19:06.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
[19:06.740 --> 19:06.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[19:08.040 --> 19:09.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I think a lot of us...
[19:09.200 --> 19:09.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's all my input.
[19:10.040 --> 19:10.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: A lot of us can say that.
[19:10.800 --> 19:14.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I can't wait for it to be over, because it's been dragging on long ago.
[19:14.560 --> 19:15.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: It has been dragging on forever.
[19:15.640 --> 19:16.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, the Canadians know how to do it.
[19:16.740 --> 19:19.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: They did it in a month, and we take two years.
[19:19.740 --> 19:25.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, that brings up the issue of how it's not really up to us, because we do know how New York is going to go.
[19:25.400 --> 19:28.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's these swing states we have to worry about and how they're going to vote.
[19:28.780 --> 19:29.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: Absolutely.
[19:29.300 --> 19:29.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[19:29.600 --> 19:39.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: And if you're in states like Ohio and Florida and Nevada and other places like that, you have a lot of power, because our crazy system, all the electoral votes go to one party.
[19:40.140 --> 19:42.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: But New York almost went Republican last time.
[19:42.540 --> 19:43.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: For the president?
[19:43.560 --> 19:43.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[19:45.180 --> 19:47.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't have the records in front of me, but...
[19:47.160 --> 19:48.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think you're thinking of something else.
[19:48.800 --> 19:49.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, you must be.
[19:49.600 --> 19:49.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm never wrong.
[19:49.820 --> 19:51.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't think that's...
[19:51.200 --> 19:51.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[19:51.660 --> 19:52.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think...
[19:52.040 --> 19:52.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, sorry.
[19:52.540 --> 19:59.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think what's crazy about the whole electoral process that we've gone through so far is that how you have these candidates who are so different.
[19:59.280 --> 20:09.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I know now there's a fairly large gap in the polls, but it's just like, how is it that half of the country thinks this one crazy ideology and then the other half thinks this other crate?
[20:10.120 --> 20:10.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're both...
[20:10.560 --> 20:13.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, they're both very different and very...
[20:13.660 --> 20:15.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not radical, but it's just...
[20:16.360 --> 20:19.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's interesting to see how in this country you have just this one division.
[20:19.520 --> 20:22.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: I like how in other countries, you know, you have multiple parties.
[20:22.360 --> 20:22.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: You have coalitions.
[20:23.000 --> 20:23.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: You have...
[20:23.260 --> 20:23.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[20:23.500 --> 20:23.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: You have...
[20:23.920 --> 20:27.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you have this kind of rainbow of different ideologies.
[20:27.480 --> 20:27.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[20:28.160 --> 20:32.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Here, you know, we're sitting here saying, well, if it doesn't go our way, what are we going to do?
[20:32.920 --> 20:33.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Exactly.
[20:33.120 --> 20:33.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know?
[20:33.520 --> 20:34.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's no...
[20:34.560 --> 20:41.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: I feel almost sorry for the Republicans because they'll have no power at all next year if things continue to go in that...
[20:41.220 --> 20:45.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, they'll lose the House, they'll lose the Senate, they won't be able to filibuster, they won't be in the White House.
[20:45.980 --> 20:46.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: What are they going to do?
[20:46.780 --> 20:48.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: They'll just have to do talk radio or something.
[20:48.720 --> 20:52.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: The thing is that it hurts everybody because, I mean, okay, for a while we'll be...
[20:52.640 --> 20:53.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, our party will be in control.
[20:54.260 --> 20:54.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: We?
[20:55.020 --> 20:55.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: We're in a party?
[20:55.700 --> 20:56.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Our party?
[20:56.540 --> 20:56.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Our party.
[20:57.080 --> 20:57.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: The hacker party?
[20:57.820 --> 20:58.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's a hacker party out there.
[20:59.380 --> 21:01.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Actually, there will be a hacker party, I'm sure.
[21:01.000 --> 21:01.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Or...
[21:01.980 --> 21:02.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is that right?
[21:02.620 --> 21:02.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Do you have something?
[21:03.820 --> 21:16.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, you know, some people, because of the issue of voting with the swing states and are registering in other states, if they can, out of their home states to maybe have more of a swing elsewhere, almost like...
[21:16.280 --> 21:16.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Legally?
[21:16.580 --> 21:16.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[21:16.740 --> 21:17.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: They're moving, you mean?
[21:17.560 --> 21:23.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, not moving, but say if you go to school in a neighboring state that live elsewhere.
[21:23.340 --> 21:24.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, that could make a difference.
[21:25.360 --> 21:34.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: The point I was trying to make was that, you know, if the Democrats win and they take everything, for example, so I happen to be a Democrat, so I'll feel represented.
[21:35.200 --> 21:37.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'll feel like, you know, my, what I want is getting done.
[21:37.960 --> 21:39.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, we can look you up to see if you're a Democrat.
[21:39.800 --> 21:42.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: But then there's this other half of the country who feels that they're not being represented.
[21:43.160 --> 21:48.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's why it really stinks that in this country we have such this partisanship.
[21:48.660 --> 21:50.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, that's definitely true.
[21:50.700 --> 21:57.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, that's definitely something that's always irritated me about the two-party system, is you have people who are either Republican or Democrat.
[21:57.240 --> 22:02.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: But not that they went out and chose that party, but because their dad was or their favorite TV guy is or something.
[22:02.240 --> 22:09.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: And so they'll just blindly vote for whoever their party tells them to without actually putting any thought into it, without actually seeing, is this the guy closest to my beliefs?
[22:10.260 --> 22:11.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's like religion almost.
[22:11.860 --> 22:12.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, or street gangs.
[22:12.740 --> 22:13.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: People just blindly, yeah, blindly following.
[22:13.940 --> 22:14.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bernie, did you have something?
[22:15.420 --> 22:19.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, besides Pennsylvania being, it looks like ground zero for this election.
[22:19.580 --> 22:24.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: Both McCain and Obama have made numerous, numerous stops in Pennsylvania the past few weeks.
[22:24.640 --> 22:25.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's your state.
[22:25.760 --> 22:26.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's your state.
[22:26.240 --> 22:30.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I understand you've been working in various election-type things.
[22:30.820 --> 22:36.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I won't show my hand, but I've been volunteering at the campaign headquarters of one of the campaigns here in Philadelphia.
[22:36.320 --> 22:37.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: One of the candidates.
[22:37.240 --> 22:39.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: We'll have to just speculate as to which one it is.
[22:39.660 --> 22:41.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it could be one of many.
[22:41.680 --> 22:42.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
[22:42.420 --> 22:42.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's true.
[22:42.880 --> 22:43.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's been interesting.
[22:43.640 --> 22:45.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've been calling undecided voters.
[22:45.820 --> 22:47.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: We have a list of undecided voters.
[22:47.480 --> 22:53.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's really interesting hearing, talking with people who haven't yet made up their mind.
[22:54.120 --> 22:54.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bernie, I have a question.
[22:55.080 --> 22:56.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: How do you get a list of undecided voters?
[22:58.960 --> 23:00.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Polls have been taken.
[23:01.180 --> 23:04.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Questionnaires have been filled out where people have just checked off.
[23:04.820 --> 23:06.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: They haven't made up their mind yet, and that was done recently.
[23:07.140 --> 23:15.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: So these are people that have already been contacted and asked a bunch of questions on the telephone, and now they're being harangued even further because they made the mistake of saying they didn't make up their mind yet.
[23:15.980 --> 23:22.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: But they are some of the most called and coddled people in the country right now.
[23:22.920 --> 23:29.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're like a super... remember the superdelegates, how everybody was sort of catering to their every wish?
[23:29.160 --> 23:29.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[23:30.020 --> 23:30.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[23:30.480 --> 23:40.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: So basically, almost every voter in Pennsylvania is like a superdelegate from the standpoint of their value to whoever hopes to be the next president.
[23:40.960 --> 23:41.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, okay.
[23:41.300 --> 23:42.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now clear this up for us.
[23:42.100 --> 23:45.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: How much money can you offer them legally to vote the way you want to vote?
[23:46.500 --> 23:46.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Nothing.
[23:47.340 --> 23:53.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: I do tell them that we very much appreciate their vote, and that's, you know, that's as much as I can offer.
[23:53.720 --> 24:01.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: I did want to point out that there's an interesting piece of technology that the Obama campaign has been using the past couple of days.
[24:01.100 --> 24:12.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: You may remember, we discussed this a few weeks ago, when the Obama campaign announced they would announce their choice of vice president via SMS messages.
[24:12.480 --> 24:13.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: At 3 o'clock in the morning.
[24:14.060 --> 24:14.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: 3 in the morning.
[24:15.980 --> 24:16.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: 3 a.m.
[24:16.580 --> 24:16.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: call.
[24:17.260 --> 24:19.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Did anybody here sign up for that SMS service?
[24:19.260 --> 24:20.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: You did, Red Hack.
[24:20.320 --> 24:20.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[24:20.480 --> 24:22.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: And you got the SMS at 3 in the morning?
[24:22.180 --> 24:22.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: I did.
[24:22.640 --> 24:23.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I was awake, too.
[24:23.860 --> 24:27.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, I just can't imagine that being a good PR move, you know?
[24:27.260 --> 24:29.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's not what I was going to mention.
[24:29.580 --> 24:30.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: They used that data.
[24:30.940 --> 24:36.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: About 2.5 million people, supposedly, signed up for that.
[24:36.720 --> 24:50.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: And now the Obama campaign is sending SMS messages to every one of those 2.5 million people, urging them to get out and vote and to contact their friends, relatives, neighbors, and get them to get out and vote.
[24:50.480 --> 24:51.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, Red Hack, did you get such a message?
[24:52.120 --> 24:53.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: I get text messages all the time.
[24:53.920 --> 24:54.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I get so excited, too.
[24:55.060 --> 24:56.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was like, who's sending me a text message?
[24:56.400 --> 24:57.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, it's Obama again.
[24:57.480 --> 24:57.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh-huh.
[24:57.760 --> 24:57.760]  Uh-huh.
[24:59.180 --> 24:59.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: But no, I...
[24:59.960 --> 25:00.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: What happens if you reply?
[25:01.380 --> 25:03.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think... It's probably just a short code.
[25:03.520 --> 25:04.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: It goes nowhere.
[25:04.260 --> 25:12.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: But what's interesting is he'll send, you know, that he's speaking in West Virginia tonight, and you can watch it here, or go to the website and look at this.
[25:12.180 --> 25:12.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Actually...
[25:12.580 --> 25:14.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know if I've gotten any solicitations for donations.
[25:15.140 --> 25:17.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: By email, I have, but I don't think I've gotten anything by text.
[25:17.920 --> 25:23.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: Interestingly enough, he's speaking in 35 minutes to the entire nation on, I think, five different TV networks.
[25:24.000 --> 25:24.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[25:24.160 --> 25:26.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, this is unprecedented, and it's...
[25:26.660 --> 25:27.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'll have to download it tomorrow.
[25:27.600 --> 25:36.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is one of those unusual nights, because we've got the Barack Obama thing happening at eight, and then we have what might be the shortest final game of the World Series ever, which could last two innings.
[25:36.840 --> 25:42.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: They suspended it because of the rain in Philadelphia, and they're going to finish it tonight, and if Philadelphia wins, it's over in two innings.
[25:43.120 --> 25:44.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's a very strange night ahead of us.
[25:45.340 --> 25:48.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: I was wondering what would happen if he does become president.
[25:49.100 --> 25:53.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Will he... Will the president send text messages out to all his faithful supporters?
[25:53.860 --> 25:56.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, you know that, or maybe just on a regular basis.
[25:56.520 --> 25:57.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: Or to everybody nationwide, like an update, like a national update.
[25:57.100 --> 26:03.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe he'll be SMSing us, saying, hey guys, gather around, you know, we're going to declare war on a certain country, want you to know about it.
[26:03.540 --> 26:06.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: Or maybe just a poll or something, who should we declare war on?
[26:06.440 --> 26:09.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Like the White House would release a statement, and it'd be SMSed across the nation.
[26:09.640 --> 26:11.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: Wow, we're really moving into the 20th century here, aren't we?
[26:11.560 --> 26:15.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, the carriers would love it for those that pay for their SMS messages.
[26:15.060 --> 26:16.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, Junts has come through.
[26:17.240 --> 26:19.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: He has given us a URL for New Jersey.
[26:19.480 --> 26:20.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: What has not come through?
[26:20.840 --> 26:24.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: New Jersey in a URL that's actually readable over the air.
[26:25.060 --> 26:26.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, this is crazy.
[26:26.540 --> 26:33.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: Again, https colon slash slash voter dot njsvrs dot com.
[26:33.420 --> 26:34.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: What does svrs stand for?
[26:34.840 --> 26:35.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: Just read the whole thing.
[26:35.840 --> 26:36.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'll never get through it.
[26:36.900 --> 26:39.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Slash New Jersey State Voter Registration System.
[26:39.980 --> 26:41.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Slash public access.
[26:41.420 --> 26:42.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: Does case matter?
[26:42.800 --> 26:43.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: Things like this?
[26:43.760 --> 26:44.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe.
[26:45.060 --> 26:45.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: AA public access.
[26:47.240 --> 26:47.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: Slash.
[26:48.980 --> 26:50.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Why don't you have him make a tiny URL?
[26:51.740 --> 26:54.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Tiny URL because there's too many letters.
[26:56.020 --> 26:56.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's ridiculous.
[26:57.020 --> 26:59.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: We'll announce a tiny URL in just a couple of minutes.
[26:59.200 --> 27:01.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you're in New Jersey, you can look yourself up or anybody else.
[27:02.240 --> 27:05.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: Mike, we haven't heard from you as far as the political thoughts of the day.
[27:05.700 --> 27:06.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I just wanted to be over.
[27:07.140 --> 27:10.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, that's why I think everybody wants that, including the people running.
[27:11.840 --> 27:16.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm still waiting for a candidate to emerge whose views are in line with mine.
[27:16.300 --> 27:18.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: And until then, I just want to be over.
[27:18.260 --> 27:19.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: You really think that's going to happen?
[27:19.880 --> 27:20.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, I don't.
[27:22.020 --> 27:23.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, I mean, but here's the thing.
[27:23.220 --> 27:27.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: My views are not really that far out of whack in a lot of countries.
[27:27.820 --> 27:28.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, but in this one, they are.
[27:28.780 --> 27:30.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, well, I don't know how that happened.
[27:31.000 --> 27:32.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: What views might these be?
[27:34.200 --> 27:34.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: Emmanuel?
[27:34.880 --> 27:35.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[27:36.220 --> 27:42.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Pennsylvania does indeed have an online system for seeing if you are registered and where...
[27:42.300 --> 27:43.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: And do you have a URL for us?
[27:44.000 --> 27:48.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: I do, but it's no less complicated than the others you've read.
[27:48.180 --> 27:53.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: You'd think that these states would register an easy-to-remember domain name?
[27:53.480 --> 27:55.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, that's what we're doing here tonight, Bernie.
[27:55.240 --> 28:00.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: Live on the air, we're going to make tiny URLs of all these things so that people can go there easily.
[28:00.280 --> 28:07.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's all well and good, but the state should have done this with something intuitive, like the name of the state and check your voter registration, something like that.
[28:07.580 --> 28:09.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, I'm going to read Pennsylvania's.
[28:09.120 --> 28:09.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, hang on.
[28:09.600 --> 28:14.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: Don't read it yet because we need to write it down as you read it so that we can make a tiny URL of it.
[28:14.200 --> 28:19.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: And right now, RedHack is busy typing the New Jersey URL in, and we'll have a tiny URL of that.
[28:20.000 --> 28:28.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: I guess I could mention one more time the tiny URL for New York, which is tinyurl.com slash 4XQ72U.
[28:28.420 --> 28:34.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: And you can use that to look up anybody in New York State if you know the birth date and ZIP Code and, of course, name.
[28:34.520 --> 28:39.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: Find out where they're voting, if they're registered, what party they're registered with, et cetera.
[28:39.700 --> 28:41.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, I just looked on Google.
[28:41.000 --> 28:43.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you just type in state places to vote, it'll come up with everybody.
[28:44.860 --> 28:45.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: What do you mean?
[28:45.640 --> 28:47.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just go to Google and type in...
[28:47.200 --> 28:48.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: I did it on my BlackBerry while you're talking.
[28:49.040 --> 28:49.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: It'll...
[28:49.440 --> 28:50.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: State place to vote.
[28:50.840 --> 28:51.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: State place to vote.
[28:51.480 --> 28:52.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it'll just start listing...
[28:52.780 --> 28:55.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just keep going down, it'll start listing states.
[28:55.260 --> 28:55.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not all of them.
[28:55.920 --> 28:58.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: Where you can enter information about individual voters.
[28:58.920 --> 28:59.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[28:59.540 --> 29:02.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it tells you where to vote, so I'm sure it'll take you to their local website.
[29:03.600 --> 29:03.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[29:04.020 --> 29:09.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: In New Jersey, I reduced to tinyurl.com slash NJSVRS.
[29:10.660 --> 29:11.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: How did you do that?
[29:11.420 --> 29:12.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: You can pick your...
[29:12.280 --> 29:13.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: I didn't know you could do that.
[29:13.260 --> 29:14.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, okay.
[29:14.400 --> 29:15.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I would have picked something better than what I did.
[29:15.800 --> 29:17.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: How about NJVote?
[29:17.280 --> 29:21.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: I thought about that a second too late, because once you make one, you can't change it.
[29:21.660 --> 29:22.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: You could always make a new one.
[29:22.780 --> 29:23.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, you can make a different one.
[29:23.460 --> 29:23.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: But that's fine.
[29:24.220 --> 29:24.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's the same.
[29:24.580 --> 29:25.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: It recognized the URL.
[29:26.100 --> 29:27.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: Say it one more time for the New Jersey people.
[29:29.120 --> 29:32.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's tinyurl.com slash NJSVRS.
[29:33.520 --> 29:33.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[29:33.960 --> 29:37.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, don't close that website yet, because we have a new one that Bernie S.
[29:37.460 --> 29:45.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: is going to read to us over the air for voters in Pennsylvania, so that they can look up fellow Pennsylvanians, and of course themselves, to find out if they're registered and who they're registered with.
[29:46.620 --> 29:47.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: Are you ready?
[29:48.160 --> 29:49.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm just going to Google it.
[29:50.900 --> 29:54.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I think you need to verify that it's the same URL.
[29:55.080 --> 29:55.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm going to read it.
[29:55.420 --> 29:56.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, go ahead, Bernie.
[29:56.900 --> 30:07.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to read this URL, but I should forewarn our listeners that this doesn't take you right to the form where you can put your name and ZIP Code and birthday in, and it comes up with your voter registration information.
[30:08.020 --> 30:16.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: You have to, once you're at this page, I'm going to give you the URL for, you have to register at the PA PowerPort, which asks you like 20 different questions.
[30:16.020 --> 30:26.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: And once you've signed up for that and defined what your username and password will be for the PA PowerPort, then you can check your voter registration information.
[30:26.280 --> 30:27.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: But here's how you would...
[30:27.020 --> 30:30.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: What if we just register a generic WBAI account?
[30:30.400 --> 30:31.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: Can we give that out to everybody?
[30:33.220 --> 30:33.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Probably, yeah.
[30:34.120 --> 30:37.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: Or would we be in violation of some kind of federal election law?
[30:37.240 --> 30:39.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't think so, because you're not registering to vote here.
[30:40.120 --> 30:40.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh-huh.
[30:40.860 --> 30:44.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're just registering with something called PA PowerPort, which lets you check...
[30:44.040 --> 30:45.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: you know, gives you an account to look at stuff.
[30:46.160 --> 30:46.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh-huh.
[30:46.740 --> 30:49.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right, well, give us the URL, and we'll let our listeners sort this out.
[30:49.500 --> 30:52.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: My point is, it's making voters jump through a lot of hoops.
[30:52.160 --> 30:52.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[30:52.320 --> 30:53.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Unnecessary.
[30:53.440 --> 30:54.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, here it is.
[30:54.860 --> 31:12.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: H-T-T-P-S colon slash slash www.pavoterservices.state.pa.us slash pages slash login.aspx.
[31:12.820 --> 31:13.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, you get all that?
[31:14.560 --> 31:15.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I found it with Google.
[31:16.300 --> 31:17.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, okay, great.
[31:17.580 --> 31:20.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, then give us a tiny URL for that, then, so we can move on.
[31:20.980 --> 31:23.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, uh, and, again, we encourage our listeners...
[31:23.580 --> 31:24.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: What did you type to find it in Google?
[31:24.880 --> 31:26.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's very slow, or at least the network here is.
[31:26.340 --> 31:26.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Give me a minute.
[31:27.000 --> 31:29.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, what did you type to find it in Google so our listeners can find their states?
[31:30.200 --> 31:31.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, actually, there's...
[31:31.240 --> 31:34.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: If they just go to votespa.com...
[31:34.920 --> 31:35.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[31:35.960 --> 31:36.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Vote...
[31:37.180 --> 31:37.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Votespa.
[31:37.640 --> 31:38.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: V-O-T-E-S-P-A.
[31:38.540 --> 31:40.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: That has a link on there to the same thing.
[31:40.960 --> 31:41.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know what?
[31:41.660 --> 31:42.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: Why don't we just leave it at that?
[31:43.440 --> 31:43.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[31:44.440 --> 31:45.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that one doesn't even need a ZIP Code.
[31:46.040 --> 31:46.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: You don't need a ZIP Code?
[31:46.900 --> 31:49.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, you just need county, first name, last name, and date of birth.
[31:50.080 --> 31:50.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wow.
[31:50.400 --> 31:51.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wait, but...
[31:51.200 --> 31:57.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't have a particularly common name, and I know in my previous county of residence there was more than one person.
[31:57.800 --> 31:58.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: I guess you need birth date?
[31:59.140 --> 31:59.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, birth date.
[32:00.040 --> 32:01.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: That might set you apart.
[32:01.120 --> 32:02.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, the other person, probably born on a different day.
[32:03.260 --> 32:03.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: Interesting.
[32:03.900 --> 32:08.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'd like to know if any states out there make it even easier to find an information.
[32:08.000 --> 32:08.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: What's your name?
[32:08.680 --> 32:10.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, North Dakota doesn't have voter registration.
[32:11.080 --> 32:11.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's easier.
[32:11.940 --> 32:13.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Has anyone checked Alaska?
[32:14.160 --> 32:14.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: That would be fun.
[32:16.080 --> 32:19.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: See if anyone's registered with that separatist party.
[32:19.160 --> 32:19.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: That would be kind of interesting.
[32:19.780 --> 32:22.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: If I were Palin's registered, wave hi.
[32:23.520 --> 32:26.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Our email address, oth@2600.com.
[32:26.300 --> 32:32.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: We asked people to write in with ideas and thoughts about election systems, polling places, things like that.
[32:32.980 --> 32:34.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: And we got a couple of interesting replies.
[32:34.880 --> 32:35.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is from Steve.
[32:36.100 --> 32:37.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: I live in Northwest Florida.
[32:37.680 --> 32:42.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'd like to go on record as stating that the way they do things in Southern Florida is different from the rest of us.
[32:42.740 --> 32:46.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: Here in my county, Okaloosa in the real part of Florida.
[32:46.700 --> 32:49.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: We don't count anything south of Gainesville as really being in Florida.
[32:50.060 --> 32:51.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know where you think it is then.
[32:52.020 --> 32:56.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: The election process revolves around the AccuVote optical scanners.
[32:56.100 --> 33:02.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: First, you mark a fairly clearly printed paper ballot by darkening the circles, indicating your vote choices.
[33:02.840 --> 33:04.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: Then you take your ballot to the scanner machine.
[33:05.000 --> 33:08.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: A poll worker is standing by to help if you have a problem, but it's pretty straightforward.
[33:08.860 --> 33:14.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: The scanner machines in my precinct are kind of old and look like an HP LaserJet 3 printer, except the ballot goes in backwards.
[33:14.540 --> 33:18.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: Once the ballot is scanned through the machine, it drops into the ballot box below.
[33:18.320 --> 33:24.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: The scanner machine counts the various marks on the ballot and stores them on a memory card that plugs into the back of the scanner machine.
[33:24.220 --> 33:29.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: The display on the top panel of the scanner keeps a running total of how many ballot cards have been scanned so far.
[33:29.400 --> 33:36.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: After the poll closes, the poll worker guarding the scanner machine removes the memory cartridge from the scanner and takes it back to the election supervisor's office.
[33:36.820 --> 33:41.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: The election supervisor then uses a computer system to read the memory cartridges and assemble the vote totals.
[33:41.860 --> 33:46.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: At no time do the cartridges leave the control of an employee of the election supervisor's office.
[33:46.920 --> 33:52.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: The problem I have with the process is that for all the care taken at the polls to guarantee your vote gets recorded properly.
[33:52.780 --> 34:01.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: In the end, it only gets counted at the supervisor's office by some proprietary software called election management software that assembles the vote counts from each precinct.
[34:02.360 --> 34:04.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: And by the way, this software is sold by Diebold.
[34:04.940 --> 34:16.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: So even if you remove those vote-stealing electronic voting machines, the process is essentially compromised by a closed-source, non-auditable proprietary software program provided by a company of dubious veracity.
[34:16.760 --> 34:18.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: Thank you, Steve, for that enlightening letter.
[34:19.440 --> 34:20.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Anybody disagree or have anything?
[34:20.940 --> 34:22.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: Feelings on that particular system?
[34:22.920 --> 34:23.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[34:24.080 --> 34:29.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Along those lines, there's an important lawsuit that was decided today in Pennsylvania.
[34:30.140 --> 34:39.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: The ACLU sued the state of Pennsylvania or the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania because the person that's in charge of... let's see, who is it?
[34:40.080 --> 34:52.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: The person who's in charge of all the election machines in the state has said that paper ballots will not be provided to voters unless every single machine in the voting place has failed.
[34:54.000 --> 34:56.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: The ACLU is saying we want it to be at least half the machine.
[34:56.740 --> 35:01.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: If half the machines fail, then people should be allowed to get paper ballots.
[35:01.500 --> 35:11.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the reason that that would be important was that a lot of voters could be disenfranchised if, you know, all but one machine, you know, all the two machines fail.
[35:11.440 --> 35:14.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: There could be long lines and people just wouldn't be able to vote in time.
[35:14.120 --> 35:21.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: But today in federal court, it was ruled that indeed all Pennsylvania polling places must have paper ballots there.
[35:21.840 --> 35:26.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: So if half the machines or more fail, you get to fill out a paper ballot.
[35:27.280 --> 35:28.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: Seems fair enough.
[35:28.860 --> 35:33.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: And the concept of voting machines failing is kind of alien to me.
[35:33.720 --> 35:37.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: I've always just used these mechanical machines and they always seem to work.
[35:37.660 --> 35:38.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: They fail all the time.
[35:38.760 --> 35:39.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: You just don't hear about it.
[35:39.720 --> 35:46.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe one fails in a room, but I've never seen more than... Every time I've gone to vote, they've all been in use.
[35:46.880 --> 35:51.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because you don't know they've failed sometimes till the end of the day when you open it up and there's no votes recorded.
[35:52.080 --> 35:58.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, that's kind of serious if that in fact happens, but I have not heard of a case like that ever being uncovered either with the mechanical machines.
[35:58.860 --> 36:05.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, it's not like happening like one out of every 10 machines, but it has happened with the New York voting machines.
[36:06.580 --> 36:08.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right, we have another letter here.
[36:08.160 --> 36:13.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Dear Off The Hook, regarding the roundtable question of what is the best method for voting, I propose the following.
[36:14.180 --> 36:20.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: Number one, use optical scan ballots and require the retention of the physical ballots for at least five years.
[36:20.720 --> 36:33.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: Number two, make the scans of ballots available as image scans, similar to fax images, online, allowing anyone with the desire to manually or electronically conduct their own recount and give them the opportunity to do so.
[36:33.340 --> 36:49.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: So three, and this is the good one, establish a mandatory penalty of life in prison without the possibility of parole for intentional tampering with the process of counting votes or for intentionally destroying or misplacing physical or electronic scans of ballots with the intention of preventing votes from being counted.
[36:50.120 --> 36:51.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, everybody sit down.
[36:51.200 --> 36:52.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: We'll get to this in a second.
[36:52.460 --> 36:59.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: Number four, require the source code of the vote counting systems to be open-source and published well in advance of the election.
[36:59.160 --> 37:10.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: Number five, require a period of time between the posting of ballot scans and the official certification of the election, allowing sufficient time for whoever desires to perform a recount the opportunity to do so.
[37:10.460 --> 37:23.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: I cannot emphasize enough that the document format from which the physical ballots are printed, the image format used for the ballot scans, the full specifications, including parts list and schematics of the scanners used for scanning the ballots, the drivers and software used for scanning the physical ballots,
[37:23.660 --> 37:33.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: and the software for counting the votes all be open-source and published far enough in advance of an election to allow for technical scrutiny and integrity checking of the technologies in question.
[37:33.480 --> 37:34.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's my plan.
[37:34.500 --> 37:36.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: I look forward to any feedback you have on this idea.
[37:36.760 --> 37:44.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think an idea of this type should become a ballot initiative and that the people of many jurisdictions should make such a scheme the law for their elections.
[37:44.460 --> 37:47.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: Thank you, Mike in Kansas City for these thoughts.
[37:47.200 --> 37:50.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, thoughts on that particular idea.
[37:50.900 --> 37:58.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: I do like the idea of the software being open-source because it's nice to be able to look for bugs yourself and find them.
[37:58.440 --> 38:06.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: But one other thing that has to be taken into account, I feel, is the physical security of the machines, especially if the software is open-source.
[38:07.000 --> 38:17.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because then if I can go and swap the memory card with no problem, and I have the source, then I just change the one part that increments the ballot to always increment my candidate's ballot.
[38:17.600 --> 38:25.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I agree that it definitely should be available for scrutiny, but I think also the physical security of the ballot box is important.
[38:25.380 --> 38:30.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, let's talk about the mandatory penalty of life in prison without the possibility of parole for intentional tampering.
[38:30.640 --> 38:33.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, I think you sort of have to test the system at some point.
[38:33.740 --> 38:40.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I fear that a lot of people who are actually trying to see if there are security issues could get caught up in this.
[38:40.280 --> 38:42.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: And again, confusing the messenger with the message.
[38:43.400 --> 38:50.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think a lot of hackers might be victimized by uncovering some security shortfalls just by trying it.
[38:51.420 --> 38:52.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: Does that happen?
[38:52.720 --> 38:53.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: Sorry, Bernie?
[38:53.580 --> 38:54.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: It has happened many times.
[38:55.120 --> 38:55.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, absolutely.
[38:56.560 --> 38:58.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: You guys agree, disagree?
[38:58.760 --> 39:00.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: A lot of...
[39:00.040 --> 39:00.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, that's...
[39:01.400 --> 39:02.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: Expressionless faces here.
[39:02.380 --> 39:03.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know what to make of it.
[39:04.400 --> 39:05.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's a fear.
[39:05.280 --> 39:05.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's a fear.
[39:05.920 --> 39:20.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, you know, that goes back to the tradition among hacker culture to, like, if someone finds a vulnerability, you know, are they going to go to the company or the organization that's responsible for it and say, you know, hey, heads up, this thing is wrong with your system,
[39:20.820 --> 39:22.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: or are they going to use it for their own gain?
[39:23.100 --> 39:37.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: And if going to them with the vulnerability and trying to be open about it and get it fixed is the wrong thing, which it unfortunately has been in some cases, where it gets the whistleblower in trouble, then where does that leave the integrity of the system?
[39:37.460 --> 39:37.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[39:37.980 --> 39:42.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, if you know of a way to crash an electronic voting machine, we want to know about it.
[39:42.200 --> 39:43.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: We want to know how it works.
[39:43.200 --> 39:44.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: We want to know what the vulnerabilities are.
[39:44.460 --> 39:46.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's important to have this information spread around.
[39:46.880 --> 39:50.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't think a threat of life in prison will help get that information spread the way it should be.
[39:50.720 --> 39:51.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: Definitely not.
[39:51.200 --> 39:52.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: But otherwise, I think some good ideas there.
[39:53.300 --> 39:56.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's just really unclear to me why voting needs software at all.
[39:56.300 --> 40:00.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: It seems to me that if you get a pile of ballots, you can just count them.
[40:00.480 --> 40:04.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, yeah, except that it's not like in Canada where it's just basically one or two things being voted on.
[40:04.400 --> 40:05.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's a lot of things for elections.
[40:05.840 --> 40:06.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe we should have more elections.
[40:07.180 --> 40:07.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Six things?
[40:07.800 --> 40:08.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's like whatever.
[40:08.360 --> 40:09.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, it's like 20 things for me.
[40:10.100 --> 40:10.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: All kinds.
[40:10.800 --> 40:13.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: You've got to vote for judges and propositions and things like that.
[40:13.420 --> 40:13.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, Bernie?
[40:13.760 --> 40:21.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just thought of a really good idea for a suspense novel related to elections.
[40:21.640 --> 40:27.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that would be if another country or some terrorist organization were set off one of these types of bombs.
[40:27.740 --> 40:30.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't kill people, but it sets off an electromagnetic pulse.
[40:31.540 --> 40:36.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: That would knock out anything that's electronic over a very wide area.
[40:36.080 --> 40:47.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: If someone, if some entity did that on election day in several ones, then it would really have a, well, I guess it would reschedule the election, but it would have an effect.
[40:47.820 --> 40:49.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I'd say it would.
[40:49.840 --> 40:59.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: But if you had a system that only had paper ballots, then you could, say, dispose of a certain container and there would no one be able to tell what those votes originally were.
[41:00.100 --> 41:01.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, they'd know that something was missing, though.
[41:01.860 --> 41:08.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: So try counting millions of votes and telling me if you can, if you get the same number every time you count them.
[41:08.560 --> 41:10.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I know in Florida they didn't, but that's something else.
[41:11.040 --> 41:13.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, yeah, we also had a bit of a correction from last week, Bernie.
[41:13.940 --> 41:14.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: You want to go into what that was?
[41:15.780 --> 41:16.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: About Florida recounts?
[41:17.360 --> 41:25.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think you had asked me last week whether the, if the Florida counts had ever been recounted by an independent agency.
[41:25.340 --> 41:26.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, yes.
[41:26.420 --> 41:28.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you said, well, what would the results have been?
[41:28.120 --> 41:30.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, well, it looks like Bush would have won anyway.
[41:30.000 --> 41:40.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: I thought you were referring to the only the contested, only the votes in the contested areas that the Gore campaign said, oh, we only want to have these very small areas where we think there's a problem.
[41:40.680 --> 41:44.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I'd like to know, I'd like to know the whole state because the whole state used the same system.
[41:44.280 --> 41:46.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I don't know why they just picked those small areas.
[41:47.040 --> 41:53.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, originally, Gore himself, according to a book he wrote, wanted to have a complete state recount.
[41:53.080 --> 41:56.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: But his advisor said, no, no, no, no, that could go the other way for you.
[41:56.540 --> 41:59.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Just do these certain areas where we know it's really bad.
[41:59.380 --> 42:00.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it turns out they were wrong.
[42:00.900 --> 42:02.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that one decision cost him the election.
[42:03.160 --> 42:04.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: And he regrets it.
[42:04.860 --> 42:07.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I think a lot of us might regret that.
[42:07.100 --> 42:07.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: Not Kevin.
[42:08.460 --> 42:18.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, to jump back to Bernie's EMP theory, you know, you can use this device and it would cause just as much damage on any other day, even if it was election or not.
[42:19.560 --> 42:21.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, you know, so I don't think that's very, very plausible.
[42:21.640 --> 42:24.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, yeah, but it would be a real pain in the ass if it happened on election day.
[42:24.100 --> 42:24.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: What do you think?
[42:24.700 --> 42:29.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I don't think we'd care that much if the election was going on, you know, all of our, everything just went down.
[42:30.140 --> 42:30.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
[42:31.600 --> 42:32.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, we have another letter.
[42:33.100 --> 42:36.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm an ex-con, and I know I have quite a few others that would love to vote.
[42:36.460 --> 42:39.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: I've heard rumors that there was recently a court case that ruled that we could vote.
[42:39.860 --> 42:40.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know if this is the case for me.
[42:41.080 --> 42:43.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm still on my state's equivalent of parole.
[42:43.500 --> 42:44.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's Washington State.
[42:44.420 --> 42:45.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: I have a few friends who aren't.
[42:46.680 --> 42:47.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: I would hope so.
[42:48.600 --> 42:49.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: New up in February.
[42:49.920 --> 42:51.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: Do you guys have any info on this?
[42:51.480 --> 42:52.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Is it too late to do anything?
[42:52.860 --> 42:53.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: Signed, Wes.
[42:54.360 --> 42:55.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: Anyone have any information?
[42:56.180 --> 42:57.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: It varies by state.
[42:57.760 --> 42:57.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: Mm-hmm.
[42:58.080 --> 42:59.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's one of the key pieces of information.
[43:00.560 --> 43:01.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Sorry, Bernie?
[43:01.480 --> 43:16.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: I wrote, I replied to Wes's question, and he is, he lives in the state of Washington, and it turns out the state of Washington has an extremely screwed up way of handling felons who want to vote.
[43:16.040 --> 43:25.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: You have to jump through a bunch of hoops and basically get the governor to sign some piece of paper allowing you to vote.
[43:26.000 --> 43:29.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: And unlike Pennsylvania, 10 years ago, it was very similar.
[43:29.620 --> 43:39.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, it was outright illegal for felons to vote in Pennsylvania, even if it had been illegal for them to register to vote until the ACLU sued him.
[43:39.700 --> 43:45.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then I was actually in on those hearings and testified, and now you can vote in Pennsylvania if you're a convicted felon.
[43:45.420 --> 43:51.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't matter whether you were convicted and you served your sentence, finished it yesterday or, you know, 50 years ago.
[43:51.480 --> 43:53.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: But in Washington, it's really screwed up.
[43:53.940 --> 43:55.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's very difficult to vote if you're a felon.
[43:56.780 --> 43:57.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[43:57.940 --> 43:58.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, Rob T.
[43:58.740 --> 43:59.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Firefly.
[43:59.280 --> 44:07.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, for that system in Washington, is there any, like, preset set of parameters where, you know, if you fulfill X, Y, and Z, then the governor will sign it?
[44:07.960 --> 44:11.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: Or is it just an arbitrary, he gets to decide your fate sort of thing?
[44:12.260 --> 44:15.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, there's a distinct set of rules you have to follow.
[44:15.140 --> 44:19.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I did look them up, and I sent Wes some information about that.
[44:19.440 --> 44:20.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have it in front of me right now.
[44:20.700 --> 44:26.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: But if any of our listeners are interested, they can email oth@2600.com, and I'll send them the same information.
[44:27.080 --> 44:34.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, Bernie, I have in front of me this 800 number that you wanted us to call from belonging to Sprint.
[44:34.360 --> 44:35.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: Are we still going to do that tonight?
[44:36.620 --> 44:36.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[44:37.020 --> 44:37.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Why not at this time?
[44:38.140 --> 44:40.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, Halloween is approaching.
[44:40.780 --> 44:46.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is a very scary thing if you listen to the menu options on this Sprint.
[44:46.040 --> 44:48.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, what I'm going to do is I'm going to follow your instructions here.
[44:48.900 --> 44:52.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: You wrote these out to call a particular number and hit certain options.
[44:53.740 --> 44:58.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: And basically, I guess I'm going to hit the options at...
[44:58.320 --> 45:00.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: Option 4, I believe, is all I have to hit, right?
[45:00.740 --> 45:05.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Listen to the first menu in its entirety, and after the last choice, then select 4.
[45:06.020 --> 45:06.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[45:06.580 --> 45:08.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: And then after that, just listen to the choices.
[45:08.620 --> 45:08.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[45:09.180 --> 45:09.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[45:09.900 --> 45:10.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Let's see if this works.
[45:11.260 --> 45:12.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's an 800 number.
[45:12.340 --> 45:12.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: Dial tone.
[45:12.980 --> 45:13.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[45:15.060 --> 45:17.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: Do you mind if the number goes out over the air, or should we mute it?
[45:18.160 --> 45:19.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, it doesn't matter.
[45:19.360 --> 45:19.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let go out.
[45:20.360 --> 45:20.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[45:20.940 --> 45:22.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: Of course, people need to know these tones.
[45:32.050 --> 45:35.010]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for calling Sprint Nextel Corporate Security.
[45:35.250 --> 45:37.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please note, our menu options have changed.
[45:37.830 --> 45:40.630]  [SPEAKER_01]: Listen to all of the options before making your selection.
[45:40.890 --> 45:45.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: For life or death situations, including 911 assistance, press 1.
[45:45.530 --> 45:48.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you are a Sprint Nextel customer, press 2.
[45:48.530 --> 45:50.770]  [SPEAKER_01]: For subpoena compliance, press 3.
[45:51.150 --> 45:53.630]  [SPEAKER_01]: For electronic surveillance, press 4.
[45:53.630 --> 45:56.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: For a trial appearance, press 5.
[45:56.530 --> 46:00.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: For identity fraud, stolen phone, press 6.
[46:00.370 --> 46:03.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: To report internal security issues, press 7.
[46:03.770 --> 46:06.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: To report a Sprint building alarm, press 8.
[46:06.730 --> 46:09.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: To repeat this menu, press the pound key.
[46:09.330 --> 46:10.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: We want option 4.
[46:10.450 --> 46:11.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: Let's go for that.
[46:11.270 --> 46:14.090]  [SPEAKER_17]: For GPS ping request, press 1.
[46:14.330 --> 46:17.690]  [SPEAKER_17]: To check the status of your request, press 2.
[46:17.690 --> 46:25.210]  [SPEAKER_17]: For FBI personnel requiring a cleared representative in regards to a classified request, press 3.
[46:25.570 --> 46:28.510]  [SPEAKER_17]: For all other inquiries, press 4.
[46:28.870 --> 46:31.510]  [SPEAKER_17]: To repeat this menu, press star.
[46:31.850 --> 46:32.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: GPS...
[46:32.490 --> 46:34.490]  [SPEAKER_17]: To return to the main menu, press pound.
[46:34.510 --> 46:34.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay.
[46:35.250 --> 46:36.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: GPS ping request.
[46:37.030 --> 46:37.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: I heard that right?
[46:38.490 --> 46:42.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that means that you can look if you're a law enforcement officer.
[46:42.070 --> 46:42.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're sorry.
[46:42.710 --> 46:44.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: The digits you entered are invalid.
[46:44.430 --> 46:46.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: You will be prompted to try again.
[46:46.850 --> 46:47.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh-oh.
[46:47.270 --> 46:48.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: That sounds like a threat.
[46:48.310 --> 46:49.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: For GPS ping request, press 1.
[46:50.010 --> 46:53.310]  [SPEAKER_17]: To check the status of your request, press 2.
[46:53.790 --> 47:00.790]  [SPEAKER_17]: For FBI personnel requiring a cleared representative in regards to a classified request, press 3.
[47:00.790 --> 47:01.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: I like that one.
[47:01.610 --> 47:04.190]  [SPEAKER_17]: For all other inquiries, press 4.
[47:04.330 --> 47:07.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bernie, my question, will it connect you to a human or will it just give up?
[47:07.450 --> 47:10.250]  [SPEAKER_17]: To return to the main menu, press pound.
[47:10.790 --> 47:12.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: I guess we can find out.
[47:12.470 --> 47:13.490]  [SPEAKER_17]: I didn't wait that long.
[47:13.710 --> 47:13.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[47:14.830 --> 47:15.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm very patient.
[47:17.250 --> 47:18.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're sorry.
[47:18.070 --> 47:20.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: The digits you entered are invalid.
[47:20.450 --> 47:21.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: You will be prompted to try again.
[47:21.930 --> 47:21.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[47:22.010 --> 47:23.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: Since we're getting yet another chance.
[47:23.250 --> 47:24.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: Mark, you wanted us to press 1?
[47:25.010 --> 47:25.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, press 1.
[47:25.950 --> 47:27.730]  [SPEAKER_17]: Check the status of your request.
[47:28.070 --> 47:28.990]  [SPEAKER_17]: Press 2.
[47:29.230 --> 47:31.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, we're past the life of death situations.
[47:31.450 --> 47:35.170]  [SPEAKER_17]: For FBI personnel requiring a cleared representative in regards to a classified request.
[47:35.170 --> 47:35.670]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, go back.
[47:35.670 --> 47:37.510]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, we're all arguing over what to hit.
[47:37.610 --> 47:39.690]  [SPEAKER_17]: For all other inquiries, press 4.
[47:39.690 --> 47:41.230]  [SPEAKER_17]: Bernie, is it dangerous for us to select something?
[47:42.130 --> 47:42.970]  [SPEAKER_17]: I doubt it.
[47:43.310 --> 47:45.730]  [SPEAKER_17]: To return to the main menu, press pound.
[47:46.010 --> 47:46.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: To return to the main menu, press pound.
[47:46.810 --> 47:48.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm going to press 1 for a GPS ping request.
[47:49.390 --> 47:51.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Please hold while we connect your call.
[47:51.710 --> 47:53.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, I don't want to talk to somebody about this.
[47:54.030 --> 47:56.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: Plus, we're not supposed to put people on the air without them knowing it.
[47:56.750 --> 47:58.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, I'm going to gracefully disconnect.
[48:00.350 --> 48:01.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you for calling Sprint.
[48:01.810 --> 48:05.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: For quality and training purposes, your call may be monitored and or recorded.
[48:05.490 --> 48:09.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, I've heard this guy before, and I'm not going to listen to live people, but we know how to do it.
[48:09.690 --> 48:10.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: We know how to do it.
[48:10.390 --> 48:13.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right, so Bernie, tell us something about what this number is used for.
[48:14.430 --> 48:27.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's for law enforcement officials or anyone that can convince Sprint that they're a law enforcement official to call and get information about Sprint subscribers, including their exact location at any moment in time.
[48:27.710 --> 48:42.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: The GPS ping request, for instance, allows a law enforcement officer to have Sprint send a signal to that customer's cell phone and get their almost exact location within a few yards and provide that in real time to law enforcement.
[48:42.990 --> 48:44.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I just think it's a scary thing.
[48:45.330 --> 48:46.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: It is a scary thing.
[48:46.550 --> 48:48.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: And how exactly did you come across it?
[48:50.530 --> 48:58.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sprint, I was calling about a customer service matter with Sprint, and they said my account had been flagged for fraud, and I need to call this number.
[48:58.830 --> 49:04.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I called this number and noticed that one of the choices was for law enforcement.
[49:04.530 --> 49:07.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I figured, well, gee, before I missed out, that's by mistake.
[49:07.210 --> 49:08.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I did, but I missed out by mistake.
[49:08.990 --> 49:10.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what I got.
[49:10.410 --> 49:10.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[49:11.070 --> 49:13.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, this has been going on for quite some time.
[49:14.010 --> 49:15.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Nextel started this.
[49:16.190 --> 49:25.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've worked investigations years ago where Nextel actually has a very sophisticated location system that's not based on the E911 system.
[49:25.430 --> 49:30.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: And so this actually has been available to law enforcement for at least five years.
[49:30.910 --> 49:31.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's nothing new.
[49:32.290 --> 49:34.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: And most of the carriers have it.
[49:35.090 --> 49:36.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, you can...
[49:36.090 --> 49:40.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: For example, Verizon, you can buy location service if you want your kid to have a cell phone.
[49:40.610 --> 49:42.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: You just buy the service for like $10 a month.
[49:42.850 --> 49:44.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can see on your cell phone where they're at.
[49:44.690 --> 49:45.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've seen ads for that.
[49:45.590 --> 49:45.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[49:45.810 --> 49:46.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, no.
[49:46.030 --> 49:46.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, it's...
[49:46.350 --> 49:47.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Everybody's got it now.
[49:48.170 --> 49:49.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's sort of like caller ID.
[49:50.490 --> 49:57.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: The point I was trying to make is that this is the first time people, our listeners, have been able to hear how easy it is for law enforcement to get this information.
[49:57.870 --> 50:04.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, they've had this ability for several years, but it just was interesting hearing the actual interface that is used.
[50:04.570 --> 50:09.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: I like listening to all the menu options because they certainly did change, and it was something that I've never heard before.
[50:09.350 --> 50:12.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: So one more interesting bit.
[50:12.050 --> 50:18.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, okay, speaking of scary things, I've got this document here that has been passed around.
[50:18.430 --> 50:19.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, am I supposed to have this?
[50:19.730 --> 50:20.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: It says for official use only.
[50:20.910 --> 50:21.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: What does that mean?
[50:21.450 --> 50:25.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: Does that mean it's not supposed to be in my hands, or is that classified I'm not supposed to have?
[50:25.530 --> 50:26.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: I never know.
[50:26.290 --> 50:28.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: I have a pile of all different categories.
[50:28.410 --> 50:30.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you're an official radio host, so...
[50:30.530 --> 50:31.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's official?
[50:31.390 --> 50:31.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[50:31.590 --> 50:34.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: So as long as we use this for official purposes, fine.
[50:35.770 --> 50:36.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is...
[50:37.170 --> 50:42.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: The name of this paper is something like, Al-Qaeda-like mobile discussions and potential creative uses.
[50:43.490 --> 50:44.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I found it...
[50:44.630 --> 50:46.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know what you just said.
[50:46.250 --> 50:46.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: I found it on...
[50:46.870 --> 50:52.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know what I just said either, but I found it on the net, and a lot of people are discussing it, and we were talking about it on the list.
[50:53.370 --> 50:54.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: Let me just read a quote.
[50:54.650 --> 51:00.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: Terrorists and persons sympathetic to terrorism recommend a variety of different mobile to web technologies.
[51:00.410 --> 51:00.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's right.
[51:01.310 --> 51:03.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: Terrorists recommend certain technologies.
[51:03.590 --> 51:04.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: Is this in English?
[51:04.810 --> 51:05.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a terrorist certification.
[51:06.110 --> 51:06.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Of course it's in English.
[51:07.050 --> 51:13.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: They recommend different mobile to web technology software and voice over Internet protocol for their mobile phone use.
[51:13.410 --> 51:20.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: Some of the tactics are old, some of the tactics are still emerging, and some tactics may emerge from hacker, activist, and criminal non-terrorist use.
[51:21.030 --> 51:29.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: This paper briefly covers a few examples of terrorist use and potential use of mobile to web and web to mobile technologies and tactics from an open-source perspective.
[51:29.890 --> 51:32.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: The paper includes the following five topics.
[51:32.010 --> 51:39.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: Pro-terrorist propaganda mobile interfaces, mobile phone GPS for movements, ops, targeting, and exploitation.
[51:39.690 --> 51:42.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: The mobile phone as a surveillance tool.
[51:42.630 --> 51:44.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: Voice changers for terrorist phone calls.
[51:45.170 --> 51:50.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: And my personal favorite, a red-teaming perspective on the potential terrorist use of Twitter.
[51:53.250 --> 51:54.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[51:54.710 --> 51:55.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's just, it's just too good.
[51:56.590 --> 52:01.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: They have a little feature here on pro-terrorist propaganda cell phone interfaces.
[52:01.970 --> 52:04.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: The mobile phone provides an active outlet for terrorist propaganda.
[52:04.850 --> 52:15.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: Currently, there are thousands of multimedia clips, audio, video, photo, PowerPoint, text, PDF, that may be uploaded to mobile phones from multiple websites and multimedia bunkers.
[52:15.290 --> 52:16.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's right.
[52:16.310 --> 52:22.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: In addition, mobile phone texting appears to be consistently and possibly increasingly popular.
[52:22.390 --> 52:23.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's right.
[52:23.290 --> 52:28.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: Possibly increasingly popular among pro-terrorist audiences, just as it is with non-terrorist audiences.
[52:28.310 --> 52:35.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: Some terrorist organizations are further branded by a specific cell phone interface, which makes the actual phone a piece of propaganda.
[52:35.490 --> 52:36.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: And two examples are given.
[52:36.850 --> 52:42.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: One from the Army of the Mujahideen cell phone interface, and one from the Islamic State of Iraq cell phone interface.
[52:42.650 --> 52:46.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, I'm starting to wonder if this is just one big elaborate joke, because it's just so funny.
[52:47.390 --> 52:48.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: It really is.
[52:48.250 --> 52:49.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bernie, I think you were looking at this, right?
[52:49.990 --> 52:50.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's right.
[52:50.910 --> 52:54.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't actually provide that to you, but I did read it later.
[52:55.010 --> 53:06.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's, you know, the thing about Twitter is the funniest, because, first of all, why would Twitter be a more useful interface than SMS or any other, you know, IMing or anything like that.
[53:06.770 --> 53:19.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, what makes Twitter unique, according to this paper, is that the member can send tweets or messages near real time to Twitter cell phone groups and to their online Twitter social networking page.
[53:19.450 --> 53:27.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: They can also mash up their tweets with a variety of other tools, including geo-coordinates and Google Maps or other electronic files slash artifacts.
[53:27.870 --> 53:36.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: Members can direct and redirect audience members to other websites and locations from tweets and can engage in rapid-fire group social interaction.
[53:37.450 --> 53:40.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, basically, here's some examples.
[53:40.690 --> 53:44.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: Sample tweets were collected and posted in a Computer World article.
[53:45.210 --> 53:49.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: Twitter helps Republican convention protesters organize and elude police.
[53:49.490 --> 53:50.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: September 8, 2008.
[53:51.530 --> 53:54.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: Arrest teams are approaching seated protesters on Marion Bridge.
[53:55.110 --> 53:57.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: Resisters are told they'll be met with force.
[53:57.330 --> 53:58.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: Another example.
[53:58.430 --> 53:59.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: Protesters are now fighting back.
[53:59.970 --> 54:01.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: First reports of violence now.
[54:01.770 --> 54:02.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: Number three.
[54:02.630 --> 54:05.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: Western Avenue Bridge, west of Capitol, can be safely crossed.
[54:05.730 --> 54:06.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: And the final example.
[54:06.690 --> 54:07.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: City is on lockdown.
[54:07.870 --> 54:10.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: Go to 14th and Jackson if you need help from tear gas pepper spray.
[54:11.450 --> 54:19.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, obviously, these are pretty dramatic examples of how Twitter can be used by terrorists to communicate words back and forth to each other.
[54:19.990 --> 54:21.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: Just like anything else.
[54:21.670 --> 54:26.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do they just follow twitter.com slash Osama bin Laden to get all the updates?
[54:26.210 --> 54:27.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is that how it works?
[54:27.750 --> 54:35.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, do you think any terrorist group would be stupid enough to put their plans and commands on a publicly accessible website that anybody can get to?
[54:36.170 --> 54:37.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, the thing is, yeah.
[54:37.210 --> 54:39.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: The thing is, it's no different than them having just some private forum.
[54:39.950 --> 54:45.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: The only difference is that Twitter provides the infrastructure already for this kind of communication, right?
[54:45.770 --> 54:53.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, you have a bunch of people follow, say, a group leader with their cell phones and then that person sends messages and that updates to everybody.
[54:53.230 --> 54:59.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, Twitter is essentially providing the infrastructure for this kind of communication, which might be more difficult for somebody to implement.
[54:59.830 --> 55:06.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: You can probably find your own copy of this document simply by putting any of the words that I've spoken into Google and I'm sure a copy will pop up.
[55:06.750 --> 55:10.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: I want to just share one scenario in the brief time that we have left.
[55:11.370 --> 55:14.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: Scenario number three, cyber terrorist Operative A finds U.S.
[55:14.850 --> 55:16.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: Army Smith's Twitter account.
[55:16.950 --> 55:21.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: Operative A joins Smith's tweets and begins to elicit information from Smith.
[55:21.470 --> 55:24.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: Smith, this information is then used for a targeting package.
[55:24.550 --> 55:27.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: Targeting, in a sense, could be for identity theft, hacking, and or physical.
[55:27.950 --> 55:33.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: This scenario is not new and has already been discussed for other social networking sites such as MySpace and or Facebook.
[55:33.410 --> 55:34.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, then Smith is a moron.
[55:34.850 --> 55:36.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: He's leaking information.
[55:36.610 --> 55:38.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, it's just gotten too good.
[55:38.270 --> 55:46.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: And what happens if there's a terrorist denial of service attack and they put out a lot of plots so everybody's running in 50 different directions to deal with them?
[55:47.110 --> 55:49.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, disinformation, all kinds of things like that.
[55:49.170 --> 55:52.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: I want to close out the show with one more little bit of news.
[55:52.630 --> 55:55.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: A woman has been arrested for killing her virtual reality husband.
[55:55.930 --> 55:56.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's right.
[55:56.290 --> 56:05.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: A 43-year-old Japanese woman whose sudden divorce in the virtual game world made her so angry that she killed her online husband's digital persona has been arrested on suspicion of hacking.
[56:05.890 --> 56:08.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, at least she wasn't arrested for murder, but that's next, I'm sure.
[56:09.250 --> 56:11.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: It does get stranger and stranger.
[56:11.830 --> 56:12.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: Not Kevin.
[56:12.310 --> 56:16.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Their clarification of murder is her guessing the password to her husband's account.
[56:16.670 --> 56:18.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's just one step away, isn't it?
[56:18.690 --> 56:22.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'd just like to clarify that this wasn't her real husband.
[56:22.110 --> 56:24.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: This was her fake husband in the virtual world.
[56:24.150 --> 56:25.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, it wasn't her real husband?
[56:25.090 --> 56:25.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: No.
[56:25.510 --> 56:27.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, well, I got the story all wrong.
[56:27.590 --> 56:29.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: They were only married, quote unquote, online.
[56:29.690 --> 56:30.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, boy.
[56:30.290 --> 56:35.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, the virtual world is just going to get us more and more confused as the years go on.
[56:35.310 --> 56:38.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: Our email address, oth@2600.com.
[56:38.350 --> 56:43.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: Next week at this time, who knows what kind of state we'll be in, but it'll be fun and interesting.
[56:43.590 --> 56:44.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: Don't forget to vote.
[56:44.950 --> 56:47.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: Don't forget to tell others to vote and let us know what happens.
[56:48.050 --> 56:50.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: And we'll see you next week.
[56:50.950 --> 56:51.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[56:51.610 --> 56:53.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: Here's another song about phones.
[57:03.280 --> 57:04.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: Take your phone off the phone.
[57:05.840 --> 57:09.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: You never know these days who else might be on the line.
[57:10.180 --> 57:10.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.
[57:11.460 --> 57:11.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.
[57:12.300 --> 57:12.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello.
[57:14.160 --> 57:14.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.
[57:14.640 --> 57:14.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.
[57:15.580 --> 57:16.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello, too.
[57:22.510 --> 57:24.030]  And a recorded album.
[57:24.030 --> 57:28.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: You are now connected to the Ransom Signing Network.
[57:28.790 --> 57:32.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: At the appointed time, sit down and begin to call.
[57:56.060 --> 57:56.500]  Hello.
[57:56.940 --> 57:59.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Can you leave it till I'm through telephone?
[58:00.480 --> 58:00.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello.
[58:01.540 --> 58:03.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: You've got better things to do.
[58:05.740 --> 58:09.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Ooh, I can't live without my telephone.
[58:09.980 --> 58:11.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sorry.
[58:12.700 --> 58:14.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is a recorded announcement.
[58:15.080 --> 58:15.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: One.
[58:15.920 --> 58:18.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Arrange a definite time to telephone.
[58:19.060 --> 58:21.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: The code you have dialed has been changed.
[58:21.880 --> 58:22.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Two.
[58:22.820 --> 58:26.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: At the appointed time, sit down and begin to call.
[58:26.440 --> 58:28.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: Call me in, call me in, call me in, call me in, call me anytime.
[58:29.160 --> 58:29.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello there.
[58:30.340 --> 58:30.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Three.
[58:31.460 --> 58:33.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Keep score on the number of calls you make.
[58:34.220 --> 58:35.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not not not the Vader.
[58:37.140 --> 58:37.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Who is it, please?
[58:39.220 --> 58:39.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: Four.
[58:40.040 --> 58:42.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Each week, improve that score.
[59:38.380 --> 59:40.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: You never know these days.
[59:41.500 --> 59:43.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Everybody's getting it on my phone.
[59:45.880 --> 59:47.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Everybody's getting it on my telephone.
[59:50.260 --> 59:52.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Everybody's getting it on my phone.
[59:54.720 --> 59:56.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Everybody's getting it on my telephone.
[01:00:04.130 --> 01:00:04.570]  Hello.
[01:00:05.030 --> 01:00:06.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wasting all my time.
[01:00:15.740 --> 01:00:16.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Telephone.
[01:00:16.500 --> 01:00:17.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Who is it, please?
[01:00:17.620 --> 01:00:19.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Always bringing in my hand.
[01:00:19.980 --> 01:00:20.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Telephone.
[01:00:20.700 --> 01:00:21.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello there.
[01:00:21.900 --> 01:00:23.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Always get me out of bed.
[01:00:24.100 --> 01:00:25.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're on the same line.
[01:00:25.220 --> 01:00:25.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Please ring off.
[01:00:28.760 --> 01:00:29.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:00:29.920 --> 01:00:30.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow, man.
[01:00:30.980 --> 01:00:34.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: They have some great music there on the off the hook.
[01:00:34.980 --> 01:00:37.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: I tell these guys, they are off the hook.