Off The Hook - 2009-01-14

[00:01.080 --> 00:04.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yo, this is Michael Franti from Spirit.
[00:04.320 --> 00:10.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're listening to non, non, non, non-commercial radio in New York.
[00:11.760 --> 00:12.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Debbie B.
[00:12.460 --> 00:13.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: Debbie B.
[00:13.340 --> 00:13.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: A.I.
[00:13.780 --> 00:14.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: is the place to turn to.
[00:15.780 --> 00:18.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh my, oh my God.
[00:19.760 --> 00:22.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, my mother got us living suicide singing.
[00:22.780 --> 00:25.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh my, oh my God.
[00:25.640 --> 00:28.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, my mother got us living genocide singing.
[00:28.120 --> 00:32.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh my, oh my, oh my God.
[00:32.460 --> 00:35.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: And here my mother got us living suicide singing.
[00:36.140 --> 00:38.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh my, oh my God.
[00:45.310 --> 00:46.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, apologies for that.
[00:47.190 --> 00:49.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Apparently our Windows machine isn't working as well as it should be.
[00:50.190 --> 00:52.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're listening to WBAI New York.
[00:52.270 --> 00:55.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's 7 o'clock time for a non-Windows edition of Off The Hook.
[01:01.370 --> 01:05.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:06.990 --> 01:08.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: I cut myself while shaving.
[01:09.210 --> 01:11.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now I can't make a cough.
[01:12.030 --> 01:14.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: We couldn't get much worse.
[01:16.670 --> 01:19.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, bon diddly bonk for the best, expect the worst.
[01:20.130 --> 01:21.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: I hope that's understood.
[01:22.190 --> 01:23.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: Bon diddly bonk!
[02:17.160 --> 02:18.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: And good evening to everybody.
[02:18.280 --> 02:19.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: The program is Off The Hook.
[02:19.260 --> 02:21.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:21.780 --> 02:28.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's the last show that we're going to be doing under the Bush administration.
[02:28.900 --> 02:29.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, isn't that something?
[02:30.760 --> 02:32.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wow, there have been a lot of them.
[02:32.380 --> 02:34.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: A lot of Bush shows that we've done here.
[02:34.860 --> 02:38.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: I want to welcome to the studio tonight, Mike.
[02:38.740 --> 02:39.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello.
[02:40.460 --> 02:41.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Rob T.
[02:41.360 --> 02:41.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Firefly.
[02:42.120 --> 02:42.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good evening.
[02:42.760 --> 02:43.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Jim.
[02:43.680 --> 02:43.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hi.
[02:44.620 --> 02:45.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Voltaire.
[02:45.500 --> 02:45.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Evening.
[02:46.140 --> 02:46.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bernie S.
[02:46.760 --> 02:47.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: down in Philadelphia.
[02:48.080 --> 02:48.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:48.960 --> 02:52.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: And special guest, also originally from Pennsylvania, Packrat.
[02:52.980 --> 02:53.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello.
[02:53.580 --> 02:53.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Welcome.
[02:54.820 --> 02:56.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: And what brings you to New York?
[02:56.300 --> 02:57.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: You live here, I guess.
[02:57.260 --> 02:57.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: I live here now.
[02:57.860 --> 02:58.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, okay.
[02:58.280 --> 03:00.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, that's one thing.
[03:00.440 --> 03:01.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: But you made it out of Pennsylvania.
[03:01.740 --> 03:02.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bernie's not so lucky.
[03:02.580 --> 03:02.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: He's still there.
[03:03.180 --> 03:04.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bernie, come to the studio.
[03:04.400 --> 03:04.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm still here.
[03:04.960 --> 03:05.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, he's still...
[03:05.680 --> 03:07.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: But Philadelphia doesn't really count, I don't think.
[03:08.000 --> 03:09.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, Philadelphia is interesting.
[03:09.840 --> 03:14.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm not sure how many of us are actually going to take part in this, but we have some kind of event happening over the weekend.
[03:15.020 --> 03:16.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bernie, do you know more details about this?
[03:16.800 --> 03:17.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[03:17.100 --> 03:30.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Saturday morning, Obama will be arriving in Philadelphia and having some sort of short rally sort of thing, probably at or near 30th Street Station.
[03:30.400 --> 03:38.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then he's going to board an Amtrak train, a special whistle-stop Amtrak train, probably some modified Acela train.
[03:39.100 --> 03:48.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: He's going to board that along with his entourage and a select group of ordinary Americans that he's chosen to go with him and go to Wilmington, Delaware, and pick up Joe Biden.
[03:48.920 --> 03:51.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Of course, Joe Biden's the senator of Delaware.
[03:51.940 --> 03:58.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: He's going to pick up Joe Biden, do a little rally there, and head down to Baltimore on the train, do a little rally there, and then go down to D.C.
[03:58.580 --> 04:00.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: for the big one coming up on Tuesday.
[04:00.920 --> 04:03.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do we have any idea what time that train leaves?
[04:05.260 --> 04:16.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: The latest... well, the president-elect's entourage is not forthcoming with exact details because of security reasons, apparently.
[04:16.700 --> 04:23.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: But the last I heard this afternoon was it was going to be sometime Saturday morning, when we don't know.
[04:23.020 --> 04:23.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[04:24.840 --> 04:26.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I'd like to be down there for that.
[04:26.460 --> 04:27.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: It sounds like a fun...
[04:27.640 --> 04:31.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: I like watching trains go by, for one thing, and this is going to be a special train going by.
[04:31.760 --> 04:36.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you think people will be lining the entire route all the way from Philadelphia to Washington, D.C.?
[04:36.220 --> 04:39.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I don't know if every inch of the tracks...
[04:39.940 --> 04:42.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think it's like 25 miles of tracks from...
[04:42.960 --> 04:46.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: roughly from Philadelphia to Wilmington Amtrak Station.
[04:46.020 --> 04:53.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I would bet there's going to be a lot of people everywhere it's easy to get to to be near those tracks.
[04:53.660 --> 05:01.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: And supposedly the train will be going slow at some point so Obama can wave at people or I'm sure it's going to have a pull-up roof glass or who knows.
[05:02.020 --> 05:06.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I'll bet there will be at least a million people along the side of that track.
[05:06.340 --> 05:09.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: And then, of course, going from Wilmington to Washington, D.C.
[05:09.100 --> 05:10.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: after they pick up Joe Biden.
[05:10.460 --> 05:13.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's going to be really an amazing scene.
[05:13.360 --> 05:18.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: The Coast Guard is blocking off all the waterways that go anywhere near the tracks.
[05:19.160 --> 05:24.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: The Secret Service has probably inspect every single railroad tie from Philadelphia to Washington.
[05:24.840 --> 05:27.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is really a crazy situation.
[05:27.540 --> 05:28.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, this is going to be awesome.
[05:29.020 --> 05:35.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, my real question here is what if you have a train yourself that you want to take to Washington, D.C.
[05:35.660 --> 05:36.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: at that time of day?
[05:36.620 --> 05:38.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: What happens to you?
[05:38.520 --> 05:45.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's just like if you want to be on a highway that the president wants to go on or you want to use an airplane where the president wants to fly.
[05:45.040 --> 05:47.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: You don't get to go near that.
[05:48.400 --> 05:52.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: The FAA just released a whole bunch of no-fly announcements today.
[05:52.780 --> 05:56.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: No planes anywhere around Philadelphia or Wilmington or Baltimore or D.C.
[05:56.960 --> 05:57.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: over the next few days.
[05:59.220 --> 06:00.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's a lot of security.
[06:01.360 --> 06:05.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, now, is anyone in this room planning on being in Washington, D.C.?
[06:05.520 --> 06:06.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: Other than me?
[06:06.580 --> 06:07.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Packard, I think you are.
[06:07.700 --> 06:08.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: I will be there.
[06:08.620 --> 06:10.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, and Voltaire, maybe you as well?
[06:10.200 --> 06:10.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, hopefully.
[06:10.900 --> 06:12.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, and no one else?
[06:12.600 --> 06:13.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bernie, how about you?
[06:14.700 --> 06:19.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: I would like to go, but I think it's going to be futile to see anything.
[06:19.780 --> 06:33.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's supposed to be millions of people crammed into a relatively small part of D.C., and the Secret Service is going to close off all entrances to D.C., like all the bridges and so forth going in there from Virginia, that sort of thing.
[06:33.660 --> 06:36.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're going to close them off even after there's just a few hundred thousand people.
[06:37.080 --> 06:43.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: So unless you get there maybe a day or two early, I don't see how it's going to happen.
[06:43.040 --> 06:48.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you'll see barricades, you'll see lots of people, you'll see Secret Service agents, so that's something to see, isn't it?
[06:49.260 --> 06:49.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: It is.
[06:50.120 --> 06:55.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, it would be kind of nice to be in the crowd, but I'd really like to see the stage, even if it's a mile away.
[06:56.600 --> 07:00.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: I have not gotten invitations to the actual inauguration event.
[07:00.880 --> 07:02.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm a little puzzled by that.
[07:02.660 --> 07:06.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't think anyone here has gotten anything, so maybe there's a problem with the mail.
[07:06.840 --> 07:09.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think mine were obviously lost in the mail.
[07:09.200 --> 07:09.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[07:10.700 --> 07:12.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think mine were lost on the way to the mail.
[07:12.800 --> 07:16.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: But, well, if anyone there has any extra tickets, please let us know.
[07:16.200 --> 07:17.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: We'd love to make use of them.
[07:17.220 --> 07:21.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: And of course, you know that we'd report back as to what exactly we see in a way that no one else will.
[07:21.920 --> 07:28.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: We always report on what it's like to go through security checks and airports and trains and things like that.
[07:28.180 --> 07:29.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: So it's great fun.
[07:29.660 --> 07:29.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, Mike?
[07:30.000 --> 07:32.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: What about the people who live in Washington, D.C.
[07:32.100 --> 07:35.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: and might have gone away and want to come back or just want to travel?
[07:35.780 --> 07:38.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think they're all leaving Washington, D.C.
[07:38.060 --> 07:39.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: for the entire week.
[07:39.540 --> 07:40.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: They can't all leave.
[07:40.840 --> 07:42.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, half of them work for the government.
[07:42.540 --> 07:42.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[07:42.940 --> 07:45.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, but the government jobs are off.
[07:45.560 --> 07:47.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Like, they're giving them holidays.
[07:47.420 --> 07:49.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: I have three of my friends who live in D.C.
[07:49.380 --> 07:52.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: and they're all going to be off those days.
[07:52.620 --> 07:53.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: So they're all leaving.
[07:53.720 --> 07:55.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Every single person I know who lives in D.C.
[07:55.140 --> 07:58.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: is getting out if they're not doing something with the inauguration.
[07:58.200 --> 07:58.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[07:59.440 --> 08:00.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: I haven't been to D.C.
[08:00.360 --> 08:03.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: in a while, so it's going to be interesting to see the town in that state.
[08:03.660 --> 08:05.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: I've seen New York in lockdown mode.
[08:06.620 --> 08:10.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: D.C., I can imagine, they probably do a better job of controlling people.
[08:10.300 --> 08:11.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: And there's a lot of cameras down there.
[08:12.060 --> 08:12.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: A lot of cameras.
[08:13.200 --> 08:13.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's scary.
[08:13.980 --> 08:14.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, it's not like London.
[08:14.680 --> 08:15.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Not yet.
[08:15.420 --> 08:17.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: But I imagine it'll be close.
[08:18.060 --> 08:19.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: But okay, so that's happening on Saturday.
[08:20.120 --> 08:28.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: So the plan is for him to take that train sometime Saturday morning and pick up Joe Biden in Wilmington and then continue on to Washington, D.C.
[08:28.000 --> 08:30.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: And then, of course, the inaugural fund happens next week.
[08:32.220 --> 08:35.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: So maybe there'll be something to report on as far as that goes.
[08:35.600 --> 08:42.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: But there are all kinds of other changes going on as well, including something rather interesting, the new chairman of...
[08:42.900 --> 08:44.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: the new proposed chairman of the FCC.
[08:45.400 --> 08:47.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: This guy, Genachowski, is that his name?
[08:48.300 --> 08:49.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: What do we know about him?
[08:49.860 --> 08:50.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do we know anything?
[08:51.320 --> 08:52.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: He's pretty good.
[08:52.500 --> 08:52.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: Pretty good?
[08:53.140 --> 08:53.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[08:53.540 --> 08:57.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm definitely looking forward to him as opposed to Kevin Martin.
[08:57.160 --> 08:57.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: What's good about him?
[08:58.080 --> 09:07.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, he's been instrumental in crafting Obama's tech plan, and he's been really strongly advocating for network neutrality, which is definitely a good thing.
[09:08.140 --> 09:09.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Network neutrality, okay.
[09:09.280 --> 09:13.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: Also, improving the broadband infrastructure is important for him, so...
[09:13.260 --> 09:15.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Did Kevin Martin have a stand on net neutrality?
[09:15.780 --> 09:16.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: He was against it.
[09:16.860 --> 09:17.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Was he against it?
[09:17.460 --> 09:17.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[09:17.580 --> 09:18.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he was against it.
[09:18.900 --> 09:20.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Barney, what do you think about this guy?
[09:20.740 --> 09:21.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: I have mixed feelings.
[09:23.520 --> 09:40.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think one of the primary reasons, besides loyalty to Obama, is that this guy was really the one who suggested to Obama at the very beginning of his primary campaign to really make use of the Internet, social networking sites, YouTube, that sort of thing,
[09:40.860 --> 09:43.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: email, really, to SMS messaging.
[09:43.660 --> 09:51.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: He really pushed these technologies to the forefront as far as political campaigning goes.
[09:51.040 --> 09:57.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: And he raised like a half million dollars personally for the Obama campaign.
[09:58.660 --> 10:00.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: He's got a lot of industry connections.
[10:00.640 --> 10:01.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: He's one of these...
[10:01.200 --> 10:07.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: He was in the FCC earlier, and then he went out and had to be a communications lobbyist for corporations.
[10:07.540 --> 10:11.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, you know, clearly it's going to be better than Kevin Martin, but how much better, we don't know.
[10:13.000 --> 10:18.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, yeah, I guess it's not too hard to be better than Kevin Martin, but, yeah, I guess it could have been worse.
[10:19.260 --> 10:27.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think that even though he's been representing like industries and like corporations, most of these corporations are...
[10:27.060 --> 10:29.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: All of them really have been like web-based corporations.
[10:29.700 --> 10:35.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're not like the ISPs or the telcos that we don't want to be represented.
[10:36.060 --> 10:44.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's probably going to have bad views on stuff like privacy and data security just because those would be the same policies that his...
[10:44.740 --> 10:48.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: Because he found his stuff like Hotels.com, Expedia.com, I think.
[10:49.200 --> 10:52.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: What, he was involved in Hotels.com and Expedia.com?
[10:52.940 --> 10:53.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he is.
[10:54.400 --> 10:56.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just on the board of them or something.
[10:56.720 --> 10:56.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[10:58.620 --> 11:05.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, so they probably have bad like privacy policies, but, I mean, they're going to have good net neutrality policies.
[11:06.440 --> 11:09.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, well, it's something that we'll be obviously keeping an eye on.
[11:09.900 --> 11:22.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: And sort of related to all this, a story that came out asking the question, has President-elect Barack Obama found the person to entrust with his predominantly online network of millions of supporters?
[11:22.360 --> 11:29.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I think a few people got text messages and emails from Barack Obama and what happened to those addresses and phone numbers?
[11:29.860 --> 11:42.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, Obama's announcement of Virginia Governor Tim Kaine to lead the Democratic National Committee suggests the president-elect has plans to reshape his party to resemble Obama's modern, grassroots-oriented presidential campaign.
[11:42.100 --> 12:01.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: During the campaign, the Obama operation garnered approximately 13 million email addresses, a million sign-ups for the Obama camp's text messaging service, two million participants in the campaign's proprietary social network on mybarackobama.com, and five million supporters on more than 15 other social networking sites,
[12:01.120 --> 12:01.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: including Facebook.
[12:01.940 --> 12:04.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's according to a report by the Washington Post.
[12:04.460 --> 12:17.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, the question, I guess, is are they going to let those emails not be used or are they going to use them while he's in power, while he's in office to send all kinds of messages and things?
[12:17.420 --> 12:17.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm just curious.
[12:18.300 --> 12:21.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: This was described at the beginning of the spiel as grassroots.
[12:22.160 --> 12:24.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: It seems sort of the opposite of grassroots.
[12:24.380 --> 12:25.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: It seems very top-down to me.
[12:26.260 --> 12:34.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is this focused around this one man and his organization seems to be pulling the levers.
[12:34.300 --> 12:34.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: here.
[12:35.300 --> 12:37.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Grassroots, in my book, it means the opposite.
[12:38.300 --> 12:39.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it's got to be one man.
[12:39.820 --> 12:44.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's the grassroots organization to elect one guy.
[12:44.580 --> 12:47.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think they mean the way it was run.
[12:47.880 --> 12:49.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: What was grassroots about it exactly?
[12:49.920 --> 12:50.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I don't know.
[12:50.260 --> 13:00.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm not the one saying that, but I think that's what they mean is that individual people were sending emails or signing up instead of just listening to what other people decided or said.
[13:01.200 --> 13:02.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: You have to agree with that.
[13:02.380 --> 13:10.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's kind of it seems like Obama's got a lot more credit than he actually deserves to seem like people were just throwing out this buzzword grassroots all around him.
[13:11.060 --> 13:15.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: And if it was really grassroots, there would be people voting up ideas and stuff like that.
[13:16.120 --> 13:21.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I know that he had some things like a dig-like system, but that really didn't kick off very well.
[13:22.160 --> 13:24.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's mostly...
[13:24.760 --> 13:25.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[13:25.980 --> 13:27.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's a...
[13:27.000 --> 13:35.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Due to federal election laws, there's a firewall between that mailing list and Obama once he takes office.
[13:35.320 --> 13:38.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: He can't make direct use of those contacts.
[13:38.860 --> 13:43.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: So they're going to be in control of apparently the Democratic Party, not Obama directly.
[13:43.960 --> 13:48.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: So he can't directly say, hey, put this on the mailing list.
[13:48.180 --> 13:56.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I guess the other thing about the mailing list, I found out anybody could sign up for that email list, but there's no authentication at all.
[13:56.900 --> 13:57.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Like, I could have signed you up.
[13:58.240 --> 13:59.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
[13:59.700 --> 14:00.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Can you still do it?
[14:01.160 --> 14:01.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[14:01.880 --> 14:02.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, tell us how.
[14:02.740 --> 14:03.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: Tell us exactly how.
[14:03.900 --> 14:06.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, if you just go to Obama's website...
[14:07.200 --> 14:09.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is that mybarackobama.com?
[14:09.680 --> 14:10.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's one of them.
[14:10.500 --> 14:10.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[14:10.660 --> 14:13.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's a lot of other domains that point to it.
[14:14.860 --> 14:20.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: But you just type in Obama in a search engine and you'll find the site right off.
[14:20.920 --> 14:32.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: The point is when you subscribe to this for more information from the campaign, you'll get an email, but you won't get an email saying, was this you who subscribed to your address?
[14:32.760 --> 14:37.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Like almost every other mailing list server in the world.
[14:37.500 --> 14:39.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: So it's kind of strange.
[14:39.420 --> 14:42.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: So if you found yourself signed up, it doesn't mean you signed up yourself.
[14:43.320 --> 14:43.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Interesting.
[14:44.900 --> 14:45.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[14:45.700 --> 14:46.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: I gotta say that...
[14:46.740 --> 14:51.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: I hope that's not an omen as to how this administration is going to handle this kind of technology.
[14:51.920 --> 14:54.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm surprised that it would be that simple.
[14:54.720 --> 14:56.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think it's worse than that.
[14:56.140 --> 15:01.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: I sent a letter to the president elect and got subscribed to some email list.
[15:01.320 --> 15:02.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: Why did you send a letter to him?
[15:02.440 --> 15:03.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: I sent an email.
[15:03.340 --> 15:04.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Why did you send that?
[15:04.200 --> 15:06.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Doesn't he have enough on his plate without you bothering him?
[15:06.380 --> 15:15.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: I sent an email urging him to take a position on some issue and now I'm on this list that I didn't ask to be on and certainly don't want to be on.
[15:16.080 --> 15:21.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: You thought by emailing him that they wouldn't keep track of that somehow and log your email address and...
[15:21.100 --> 15:24.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've sent emails to other politicians before and I don't get spam as a result.
[15:24.760 --> 15:26.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: But this is a grassroots organization.
[15:26.280 --> 15:28.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: What is grassroots about him spamming me?
[15:28.400 --> 15:30.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're grabbing your personal information.
[15:30.620 --> 15:30.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know.
[15:31.240 --> 15:40.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, I think that the grassroots thing really refers to the way they used unconventional technology in order to augment this campaign.
[15:41.340 --> 15:51.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: That being said, I am actually guilty of signing up several of my Republican friends for Obama mail and they were none too happy with that because they knew exactly who it came from.
[15:51.260 --> 15:53.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: So you're pretty much verifying that it's possible to do this?
[15:53.580 --> 15:53.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Of course.
[15:54.000 --> 15:54.280]  Wow.
[15:54.400 --> 15:55.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm on the site now.
[15:55.500 --> 15:58.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: Actually, I'm not going to create your account.
[15:58.640 --> 15:59.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is that where you do it?
[15:59.660 --> 16:00.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Where it says create your account?
[16:01.020 --> 16:04.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: First name, last name, email address, password, and password again.
[16:05.680 --> 16:06.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is that all you need to do?
[16:07.180 --> 16:07.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[16:07.940 --> 16:08.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[16:08.380 --> 16:09.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: And then you're on...
[16:09.460 --> 16:09.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[16:09.900 --> 16:11.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, we'll see who I add later.
[16:11.720 --> 16:12.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, Rob.
[16:12.240 --> 16:16.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: With the whole Obama movement, not all of his supporters were members of the Democratic Party.
[16:16.980 --> 16:28.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: But now, if you were an Obama supporter and you're on this list, so you said that list goes to the Democratic Party now, so do they have this list of people who are not involved with them, who are labeled supporters?
[16:28.980 --> 16:29.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, they do.
[16:30.000 --> 16:38.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: I am a Green Party member and excuse me, I still receive Democratic emails, which I'm kind of miffed about.
[16:38.800 --> 16:39.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[16:39.400 --> 16:42.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm not a member of any party and I did until I stopped it.
[16:44.440 --> 16:44.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[16:45.200 --> 16:45.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, interesting.
[16:48.020 --> 16:48.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh.
[16:53.380 --> 16:54.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, yes, I should mention.
[16:57.100 --> 17:03.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: We got the sad news today that the star of The Prisoner, Patrick McGowan, has passed away.
[17:08.120 --> 17:17.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: And for those of you who don't know, The Prisoner is probably one of the best programs about Orwellian society that has ever come out.
[17:18.980 --> 17:20.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is the intro theme, in fact.
[17:23.370 --> 17:24.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: He just went through the parking garage.
[17:28.660 --> 17:37.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: It focuses on an individual who we only know as number six who finds himself waking up in a strange village.
[17:37.280 --> 17:39.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: Doesn't know where the village is, doesn't know who's in charge of the village.
[17:40.380 --> 17:48.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: All he knows is that there are people there who want to know why he resigned from a top secret level position in the British government.
[17:50.720 --> 17:54.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: And week after week he tries to get out, tries to find out who's behind it.
[17:56.800 --> 18:02.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: And what he says during the intro of every week is, I am not a number, I am a free man.
[18:04.900 --> 18:06.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that was The Prisoner.
[18:06.160 --> 18:06.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: 17 episodes.
[18:07.340 --> 18:10.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: And of course he was also in Secret Agent prior to that.
[18:11.160 --> 18:16.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now The Prisoner actually, Mike I know that you watched The Prisoner, one of the few TV programs I think you actually watched and liked.
[18:17.060 --> 18:18.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: That might be true, yeah.
[18:18.140 --> 18:20.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wow, that's a ringing endorsement right there.
[18:21.780 --> 18:22.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: But Hope No.
[18:22.820 --> 18:24.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: 6, the theme of Hope No.
[18:24.560 --> 18:26.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: 6 was pretty much The Prisoner.
[18:26.430 --> 18:32.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: We had numbers for all the attendees back in 2006, and it was this show that inspired the whole thing.
[18:32.800 --> 18:35.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: I believe we even revealed who was number one.
[18:35.930 --> 18:37.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: We did reveal who was number one.
[18:38.180 --> 18:46.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: That didn't go as well as we had hoped because there was all kinds of confusion and well, best best not to talk about who number one actually was.
[19:04.000 --> 19:04.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, Bernie?
[19:05.880 --> 19:07.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you for raising the volume on that.
[19:07.640 --> 19:08.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: I really enjoy that theme song.
[19:08.920 --> 19:12.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: The theme song for Secret Agent was a pretty good too, Secret Agent Man.
[19:12.660 --> 19:14.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Probably a lot of the listeners are familiar with it.
[19:14.440 --> 19:20.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: But that series, the other series he did, Secret Agent Man, it was really done in London just like this prisoner was originally.
[19:21.460 --> 19:28.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: That was my first inkling about the first time I was exposed to encrypted wireless messaging.
[19:28.880 --> 19:41.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: in one of the episodes Patrick McGuinn's character was decoding groups of numbers that he was listening to on a shortwave radio with a one-time pad.
[19:41.840 --> 19:43.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: This was back in the 1960s.
[19:43.200 --> 19:46.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: This technology has actually been used ever since radio has been around pretty much.
[19:47.240 --> 20:06.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I was exposed to this decades ago and it was really interesting seeing wireless encrypted messaging, secure wireless encrypted messaging, and that really sort of intrigued me so much that I was really interested in data communications and telecommunications so he was one of my inspirations.
[20:07.400 --> 20:23.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, we're going to be playing in the background the music from The Prisoner throughout the show tonight as tribute to Patrick McGuinn who many of us saw in that role as number six and sad he was 80 years old passed away I believe today we found out about it today.
[20:24.100 --> 20:28.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: And he also did other wonderful things beyond The Prisoner strange as it might sound.
[20:28.220 --> 20:37.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: He was in a couple of my favorite movies Ice Station Zebra which is a very excellent sort of spy film from me from the 1960s and Escape from Alcatraz he was very good in that.
[20:38.900 --> 21:00.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: I've successfully created an account by the way on the Barack Obama site and I'm now logged in supposedly I gave an email address and I don't know now I see a web page is there I don't know if I'm going to just get mail automatically now or if I just created an account but we'll see what happens I'll let people know in future weeks if I just spam myself if you're looking for spam I have a whole
[21:00.660 --> 21:06.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: bunch I can send you some well this is this is just incredibly easy to make spam for people yeah Yeah.
[21:07.160 --> 21:07.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[21:08.560 --> 21:17.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Speaking of confusion and things that affect lots of people, there is now a new system in place for people visiting the United States.
[21:18.000 --> 21:19.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: It actually started a couple of days ago.
[21:20.060 --> 21:30.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: Travelers visiting the United States under the Visa Waiver Program, known as VWP, risk being detained at airports and sent home if they don't comply with new U.S.
[21:30.800 --> 21:31.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: immigration rules.
[21:31.540 --> 21:50.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: The introduction of something called ESTA, which is the Electronic System for Travel Authorization, means visitors from 27 VWP countries, including most of Western Europe, New Zealand, Japan, and Australia, must now register their details online at least three days before departure.
[21:50.900 --> 21:51.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[21:51.320 --> 21:51.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Did you know that?
[21:51.860 --> 21:54.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you visit the United States, you got to register your details before you get here.
[21:54.900 --> 22:02.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, ESTA replaces the written green I-94 form and allows travelers under the VWP to enter the U.S.
[22:03.000 --> 22:05.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: without a visa and stay for up to 90 days.
[22:05.700 --> 22:14.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: The measure is designed to tighten security and make it harder for terrorists, who are citizens of the participating countries, to easily obtain entry to the U.S.
[22:14.440 --> 22:17.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you look a bit skeptical of this, Mike.
[22:17.620 --> 22:23.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, maybe it makes it harder for terrorists who don't own computers or something, but other than that, I don't see the point.
[22:23.040 --> 22:24.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is something Australia has been doing for a while.
[22:25.020 --> 22:26.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: How do you do this if you don't have a computer?
[22:26.540 --> 22:27.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[22:27.840 --> 22:27.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[22:28.360 --> 22:41.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, critics fear, and I guess you're one of them, the new rule will be an inconvenience for business travelers, and the British Foreign Office is concerned that travelers who have not heard about the new rules may be caught out, which I guess means screwed.
[22:44.660 --> 22:53.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: A British Foreign Office report on travel trends for 2009 predicted that 13% of British travelers are more likely to visit the states now that Barack Obama has been elected.
[22:54.220 --> 22:59.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: The consequences of not registering through ESTA could therefore be far-reaching.
[22:59.500 --> 23:00.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: The U.S.
[23:00.540 --> 23:06.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: Department of Homeland Security has assured travelers that the system can handle last-minute and emergency requests.
[23:06.360 --> 23:13.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: ESTA has been operating on a volunteer basis since August 1st and started becoming mandatory on January 12th.
[23:14.080 --> 23:18.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: The applications can be made at any time, even if travelers have no specific travel plans.
[23:18.220 --> 23:21.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: So if you think maybe one day you'll be coming to the United States, you can apply now.
[23:22.520 --> 23:32.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: If itineraries change, information can be easily updated on the ESTA website, which I guess can be found at travel.state.gov.
[23:33.920 --> 23:34.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: So...
[23:34.320 --> 23:35.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Which is really...
[23:35.720 --> 23:37.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've been on that site before for other purposes.
[23:37.540 --> 23:41.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's really one of the worst sites the government has come up with.
[23:41.280 --> 23:43.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: The design, there's text on top of other text.
[23:43.700 --> 23:44.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's very hard to use.
[23:44.720 --> 23:45.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sounds like a MySpace page.
[23:45.820 --> 23:52.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I can only imagine foreigners, especially foreigners with limited English, trying to register themselves on the site.
[23:52.680 --> 23:56.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: You mean it's not done in other languages, native languages to various countries?
[23:56.080 --> 23:57.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, maybe it's done...
[23:57.120 --> 23:57.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: I haven't...
[23:57.580 --> 24:01.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: As an American, I haven't tried it myself, but I'm sure it's not in every language.
[24:01.280 --> 24:23.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: Actually, according to this, the ESTA website is actually h-t-t-p-s-colon-slash-slash-slash-esta.c-b-p-dot-d-hs-dot-gov-slash-esta-slash-esta-dot-html-question-mark-underscore-fl...
[24:23.060 --> 24:25.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: This goes on for an entire line.
[24:25.240 --> 24:26.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: This can't be right.
[24:26.240 --> 24:27.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's easy to remember.
[24:28.160 --> 24:29.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, I'm not going to read all this.
[24:29.740 --> 24:33.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's like a Windows XP registration key following here, it looks like.
[24:33.960 --> 24:35.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's so long and complex.
[24:36.220 --> 24:39.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: I guess if you just go to esta.c-p...
[24:39.760 --> 24:40.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: C-B-P.
[24:40.520 --> 24:41.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: I keep getting that wrong.
[24:41.500 --> 24:43.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know what that even stands for, dot-d-h-s-dot-gov.
[24:43.760 --> 24:45.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's Customs and Border Patrol.
[24:45.960 --> 24:46.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: But...
[24:46.320 --> 24:47.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Why do they need that extra thing?
[24:47.580 --> 24:48.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: Isn't dh-h-s-dot-gov enough?
[24:48.940 --> 24:50.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: How do you spell ESTA, exactly?
[24:50.420 --> 24:51.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: E-S-T-A.
[24:51.200 --> 24:51.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[24:51.400 --> 24:53.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: Look it up on Google, I'm sure you'll figure it out.
[24:54.440 --> 24:56.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: What happens if we as American citizens try to register?
[24:56.860 --> 25:03.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sure it's probably like in the 1980s with those movies where the computer refers to itself and blows up.
[25:03.520 --> 25:04.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: That happens in The Prisoner.
[25:04.780 --> 25:04.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[25:05.000 --> 25:05.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[25:05.360 --> 25:11.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you watch The Prisoner, you'll see when Patrick McGowan asks the computer why, just one word, why.
[25:11.360 --> 25:14.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: It smokes and burns and all kinds of fun...
[25:14.360 --> 25:15.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was the 1960s, all right?
[25:15.940 --> 25:17.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: No one even had computers back then.
[25:17.920 --> 25:18.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: Packrat.
[25:18.660 --> 25:30.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was actually curious, I don't know if you had talked about this this past summer, but I noticed when I was reading the paper that they had come up with a new type of software and scanner intended for airports, the software running called Malintent.
[25:30.940 --> 25:40.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: The point is, it's supposed to scan your body and tell the computer and the people monitoring it whether or not you are a terrorist, which I think is a little...
[25:40.340 --> 25:43.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: I had visions of 1984 in my head the whole time I read that.
[25:43.460 --> 25:46.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: From your emotions, from your facial expressions perhaps, from the way...
[25:46.320 --> 25:46.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Body temperature.
[25:46.900 --> 25:49.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: It supposedly works like a lie detector.
[25:49.180 --> 25:51.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Body temperature, heart rate, etc., etc.
[25:51.700 --> 25:55.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: But it handles how many people at once?
[25:56.180 --> 25:56.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: One at a time.
[25:57.020 --> 25:59.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: It looks physically like a metal detector.
[25:59.700 --> 26:00.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, okay.
[26:00.640 --> 26:01.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they tested it out.
[26:01.900 --> 26:07.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: I can't remember if it was at Dulles or if it was at BWI, but they shut one of the wings down of the airports around D.C.
[26:07.800 --> 26:08.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: and tested it.
[26:08.180 --> 26:09.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: I still have the article on my desk.
[26:09.040 --> 26:11.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I mentioned they'll be doing things like this in D.C.
[26:11.340 --> 26:14.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: this coming week, not only in airports but in crowds.
[26:14.440 --> 26:19.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, they have people now that look into crowds and look for people exhibiting these tendencies.
[26:20.020 --> 26:21.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're trained to do this, apparently.
[26:21.760 --> 26:25.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm just curious to know exactly how many terrorists have been caught by the system.
[26:26.060 --> 26:27.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, how many terrorists have struck?
[26:27.620 --> 26:28.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Ah, see?
[26:28.260 --> 26:28.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[26:28.780 --> 26:32.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, that proves that the system works because they haven't done anything, which means that...
[26:32.980 --> 26:33.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: It doesn't prove anything.
[26:34.040 --> 26:34.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: Let's move on.
[26:35.280 --> 26:36.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Voltaire, did you have something else?
[26:36.460 --> 26:36.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: No.
[26:36.860 --> 26:37.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[26:39.060 --> 26:43.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, here's something new that is just being talked about.
[26:43.340 --> 26:44.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: I knew this would happen eventually.
[26:44.580 --> 26:50.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: But the National Safety Council on Monday has called for a nationwide ban on cell phone use while driving.
[26:50.480 --> 26:52.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: Not only hands...
[26:53.740 --> 26:54.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Not hands-free.
[26:54.620 --> 26:55.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: What's the other...
[26:55.100 --> 26:56.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: The handheld cell phones.
[26:56.840 --> 26:57.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: But all cell phones.
[26:57.900 --> 27:05.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Studies show that driving while talking on a cell phone is extremely dangerous and puts drivers at a four times greater risk of a crash.
[27:07.340 --> 27:10.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, they say driving drunk is also dangerous and against the law.
[27:10.200 --> 27:12.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: When our friends have been drinking, we take the car keys away.
[27:12.180 --> 27:13.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's time to take the cell phone away.
[27:15.320 --> 27:17.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: I see a lot of eyes being rolled in the studio here.
[27:17.820 --> 27:19.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is something that you have been arguing.
[27:19.600 --> 27:26.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: You've been saying, I've heard you say on this very radio program, that the hands-free devices are just a scam to sell hands-free devices.
[27:26.560 --> 27:26.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: I agree.
[27:27.060 --> 27:31.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that if they're going to ban handheld cell phones, they should also ban hands-free.
[27:31.480 --> 27:33.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: And now it's happening and you're complaining.
[27:33.540 --> 27:34.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: When did I say I was complaining?
[27:34.740 --> 27:36.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: I said there's a lot of eyes being rolled in the studio.
[27:36.900 --> 27:37.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: Did my eyes roll?
[27:37.960 --> 27:38.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, they did not.
[27:38.580 --> 27:39.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Packard, your eyes are rolling.
[27:39.500 --> 27:40.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm going to complain.
[27:40.680 --> 27:40.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, complain.
[27:42.080 --> 27:48.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: I understand that, you know, holding a cell phone and driving with your neck twisted over onto the side, you know, that limits your visibility.
[27:48.020 --> 27:52.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you have a headset on and you get into an accident because you're distracted by talking on the phone...
[27:52.640 --> 27:54.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sorry, this is just too good to not turn up.
[27:54.980 --> 27:55.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, that's fine.
[27:55.660 --> 28:02.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you have somebody else in the car, how is it any more distracting by having another body and being able to talk to that person in the car than talking on a headset?
[28:02.240 --> 28:03.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, they might as well ban conversations, period.
[28:04.160 --> 28:04.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, exactly.
[28:04.840 --> 28:06.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, that's the next logical step.
[28:06.580 --> 28:18.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: The point I was making was that you can drive with a cell phone hoisted to your ear and it can be just as safe as having something that's hands-free.
[28:18.160 --> 28:27.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: In fact, that could be even more dangerous depending on how it's set up, depending on how good a driver you are, depending on what kind of conversation you're having, all sorts of things that they can't possibly just blanketly apply.
[28:27.940 --> 28:28.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: You just said it.
[28:28.640 --> 28:31.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: And make a rule that everybody has to abide by.
[28:31.240 --> 28:38.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: So it's, yeah, it's kind of like, oh, Willie and Big Brother, we have to take care of you and you can't possibly take care of yourself and exercise common sense.
[28:38.320 --> 28:40.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the more you do that to people, the more they don't exercise common sense.
[28:41.060 --> 28:42.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is why my windows are tinted out.
[28:42.780 --> 28:42.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[28:43.400 --> 28:43.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: Voltaire?
[28:43.940 --> 28:47.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: This might serve as a good incentive for people to take public transport.
[28:48.720 --> 28:49.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe.
[28:49.600 --> 28:54.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: But I don't think people get a rule saying you can't talk on a cell phone.
[28:54.380 --> 28:55.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're going to say, yeah, let's hop on the subway then.
[28:55.860 --> 28:58.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I don't know if that's necessarily... Rob?
[28:58.760 --> 29:00.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: I just wonder how they're going to enforce a ban on that.
[29:00.340 --> 29:01.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: I can't find your mic for that guy.
[29:01.840 --> 29:05.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: I just wonder how they're going to enforce a ban on hands-free talking.
[29:05.500 --> 29:12.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: Because, you know, how is a police officer or anyone else going to prove that you weren't just talking to yourself or discussing with the voices in your head?
[29:12.480 --> 29:13.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, yeah, it's the thing.
[29:13.700 --> 29:21.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: If it's hands-free, there's no indication that you're actually talking unless your lips are moving or maybe you're just listening.
[29:21.560 --> 29:23.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: You could just be singing along with the radio or something.
[29:23.620 --> 29:25.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: And maybe the radio is also too distracting.
[29:26.600 --> 29:32.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, it's just, we need to at some point simply take care of ourselves and know what we're doing.
[29:32.480 --> 29:38.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: But the thing is, this law is, if it's designed to protect the driver, then it's a foolish law.
[29:38.360 --> 29:44.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: But the problem is that the driver might hit someone else who is not distracted.
[29:44.940 --> 29:49.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that is what laws are for, is to protect the other person.
[29:49.760 --> 29:51.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, but how far are you going to go with this?
[29:51.520 --> 29:56.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because, you know, all these laws dictating every single facet of your behavior.
[29:56.340 --> 29:59.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I've been known to argue on this radio program for banning driving altogether.
[29:59.540 --> 30:07.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: But as an interim step, like, we have to, as a society, like, decide what is safe behavior while driving and what is not.
[30:07.980 --> 30:08.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right, right.
[30:08.780 --> 30:10.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think there's good driving and bad driving.
[30:10.360 --> 30:10.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, Bernie, go ahead.
[30:11.560 --> 30:15.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: A lot of these laws are not based on facts.
[30:15.300 --> 30:26.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: What happened is, several years ago, a lot of states were considering passing laws, just outright banning the use of cell phones, hands-free or not, on public roadways.
[30:26.300 --> 30:36.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the Cellular Telecommunications Industry Association, the CTIA, the cellular lobby, worked out this compromise with all the states, saying, Well, you can't ban the cell phones.
[30:36.780 --> 30:39.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ban them only if they're not using a hands-free device.
[30:39.720 --> 30:45.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: So that's how this came about, even though it's no less of a distraction using a hands-free than holding it to your head.
[30:46.180 --> 30:47.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: So that's how this came about.
[30:48.420 --> 30:52.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: So it's all about, basically, deals and money and things like that.
[30:52.680 --> 30:53.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is that what you're saying?
[30:53.760 --> 30:54.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm shocked.
[30:54.720 --> 30:55.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Shocked.
[30:56.200 --> 30:56.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, Pacrat.
[30:56.900 --> 31:08.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, I would argue that having a hands-free device and being, you know, I race in my spare time, being, having a phone in your hand, does not, it's not necessarily a distraction.
[31:08.760 --> 31:10.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: However, it does limit your reaction time.
[31:11.220 --> 31:16.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Therefore, having something physically in your hand, you know, you can put a cup down really easily.
[31:16.940 --> 31:18.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you have cup holders and stuff like that.
[31:18.520 --> 31:22.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, doing that with a cell phone, it's not only distracting, but it limits your mobility.
[31:22.940 --> 31:23.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you can drop it.
[31:23.880 --> 31:27.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, I have dropped my phone when something requires my media attention.
[31:27.680 --> 31:32.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: If I have a headset strapped to my head, though, that's a lot harder to disengage from in an emergency.
[31:32.600 --> 31:40.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: And if someone's yelling at you and you need to hear what somebody else is yelling at you on the highway, then it might be a little difficult to do that quickly and safely.
[31:40.440 --> 31:46.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: But again, it depends on how inept you are at doing two things at once, and a lot of people are.
[31:47.240 --> 31:48.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: So I just, I don't know.
[31:48.940 --> 31:51.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's tricky when you start regulating everything.
[31:51.300 --> 31:52.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: I just chalk it up to Darwin.
[31:53.100 --> 31:53.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, Bernie, go ahead.
[31:54.520 --> 31:54.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Gum.
[31:55.360 --> 32:01.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe we should regulate chewing gum while walking, because that could pose a public safety hazard if you're crossing the street.
[32:01.900 --> 32:04.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, they already regulate text messaging while walking, don't they?
[32:05.040 --> 32:05.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Text walking, yes.
[32:06.100 --> 32:06.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Text walking.
[32:06.540 --> 32:07.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's some laws on that.
[32:07.540 --> 32:11.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you're crossing the street, you can't send or receive a text message in some areas.
[32:11.340 --> 32:15.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's because we don't know how to take care of ourselves unless there's a law telling us what to do and what not to do.
[32:15.840 --> 32:17.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's really, it's gotten to that stage.
[32:17.600 --> 32:21.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: Anyway, a nationwide insurance public opinion poll reported that 81% of the U.S.
[32:21.500 --> 32:23.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: drivers say they use cell phones at the wheel.
[32:24.980 --> 32:32.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's funny because, you know, a lot of the people who agree that cell phones should be banned call me while I'm driving and get angry if I say I have to go.
[32:33.380 --> 32:36.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: So it's really, it's fun.
[32:37.800 --> 32:41.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, so that's something to look forward to, the debate on that.
[32:42.060 --> 32:49.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, now, as far as something else that's coming up really soon, we've talked about it a number of times, the cutover to digital television.
[32:49.740 --> 32:52.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh boy, it's getting more and more fun, isn't it?
[32:53.820 --> 33:04.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: One thing that I was talking to some people about this week that I hadn't talked about before, since they're using the same television frequencies, we're not actually getting anything out of this deal.
[33:05.120 --> 33:14.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Originally, I thought we might get an expanded FM dial because channels 2 through 6 use the audio spectrum right below 88.1 on the FM dial.
[33:14.640 --> 33:19.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: So maybe we could have expanded into, say, 85 or 80 or something like that.
[33:19.340 --> 33:27.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: But no, they're keeping those frequencies for some VHF TV stations that would like to keep that particular channel number.
[33:27.440 --> 33:36.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: But most of them, most of the TV stations are moving to UHF stations, that is, above 14, where the range is not nearly as great.
[33:36.180 --> 33:48.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: So that means people in faraway areas that currently pick up a VHF TV station, they don't have cable, they don't have satellite, they're going to be switching to a UHF station that might not get the same range.
[33:48.580 --> 33:52.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: So even if you get the converter box, you might not be able to pick up the signal.
[33:53.400 --> 33:56.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've actually been mulling this over in my mind.
[33:56.100 --> 33:59.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: I can't come up with a logical reason for anybody to be doing this.
[34:00.060 --> 34:03.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, can you really argue that the picture quality is going to be better?
[34:03.820 --> 34:05.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is that really the point of all of this?
[34:05.460 --> 34:15.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: How many people receive television over the air and are into HDTV, don't get cable, don't get satellite, but they get it over the air, and that's what they're doing this for?
[34:15.760 --> 34:22.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, it's really... I think, Bernie, you had a theory as to... or a pretty well-reasoned argument as to what this is really all about.
[34:23.240 --> 34:25.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, yeah, there was two primary reasons for this.
[34:27.300 --> 34:41.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Back in the 1980s, or, yeah, 1980s and early 1990s, the FCC was going to award a bunch of radio frequency spectrum to, in the UHF area, to wireless carriers just for free.
[34:42.120 --> 34:50.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the TV stations were like, no, no, no, no, that's our God-given right to have these extra frequencies, because we've got our other channels for free.
[34:50.140 --> 34:51.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: We want more spectrum for free.
[34:51.860 --> 35:09.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, basically, the National Association of Broadcasters lobbied very heavily to Congress and the FCC to get these free channels and have them made digital so they could broadcast five channels at once in standard definition and run five times as much advertising,
[35:09.780 --> 35:13.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: and there was no restriction that they couldn't run pay-per-view on most of those channels.
[35:13.500 --> 35:27.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: And at the same time, the FCC and Congress gets to auction off the frequencies above channel 52 on the UHF band and sell that for billions and billions of dollars and then give it away to Wall Street bankers or whatever they're doing this week with the money.
[35:27.500 --> 35:28.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, this is really all about money.
[35:29.100 --> 35:32.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's not about getting improved television over the air, for the most part.
[35:32.440 --> 35:40.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, and the thing is, these people who are into HDTV and all that kind of thing, couldn't they have gotten that anyway without having this massive digital cutover?
[35:40.580 --> 35:44.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Couldn't they have gotten that through cable and through satellite in different ways?
[35:44.320 --> 35:44.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[35:45.940 --> 35:46.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: Voltaire?
[35:46.440 --> 36:01.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the whole advantage of doing this is that the spectrum that they're going to end up selling is going to go to new technologies like WiMAX that will be able to hopefully improve our Internet and projector.
[36:02.160 --> 36:04.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: That was the common theory that I had heard.
[36:04.180 --> 36:08.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, Bernie, last week you had mentioned the broadcast range.
[36:08.500 --> 36:19.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's one of the things that sort of has been weighing on my mind is when you start to get out in sort of hinterlands, the signal breaks up.
[36:19.700 --> 36:22.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you can still sort of listen to it or see it.
[36:23.320 --> 36:25.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: And digital, it just completely falls apart.
[36:26.060 --> 36:27.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's called the cliff effect.
[36:27.500 --> 36:27.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[36:27.660 --> 36:30.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: You either have a clear picture or you have nothing at all.
[36:30.820 --> 36:42.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, everybody who watches analog TV over the air is experiencing like a little ghosting or a little snow on a picture occasionally, depending on how good your antenna is and how far you are from the station.
[36:42.340 --> 36:43.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's not going to happen with digital.
[36:43.800 --> 36:46.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: With digital TV, you're not going to get anything unless it's a really strong signal.
[36:47.040 --> 36:56.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the thing is, if you're used to watching Channel 4 or something like that, that when that switches to Channel 32, the signal is not as strong.
[36:56.840 --> 37:03.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: And just ask yourself, those of you who ever had a household without cable or without satellite, what channels did you watch more?
[37:03.520 --> 37:06.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Probably the ones below 14 because they had stronger signals.
[37:06.320 --> 37:20.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: So unless that TV station is installing repeaters or is really pumping out a powerful signal, and you have to wonder what the incentive is for them to do that when so few people compared to satellite and cable subscribers are actually receiving the signal over the air,
[37:20.740 --> 37:25.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think a lot of people are going to be kind of shut out when this happens in mid-February.
[37:25.420 --> 37:30.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is this actually going to be illegal for anyone to broadcast an analog after the cutover date?
[37:30.180 --> 37:32.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or is it just going to be like, well, this is the standard?
[37:33.120 --> 37:35.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think it's... I don't know.
[37:35.460 --> 37:36.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bernie, any idea on that?
[37:36.820 --> 37:44.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, the FCC has changed the licensing, changed what standard power stations are allowed or licensed to do.
[37:44.780 --> 37:52.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: They will no longer be licensed to broadcast in NTSC format, which is analog, and they'll have to broadcast in ATSC format, which is digital format.
[37:52.880 --> 37:58.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: There are low-power TV stations, really hundreds and hundreds of them across the country, like community TV stations.
[37:58.740 --> 38:01.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: They don't have to convert to ATSC digital.
[38:01.580 --> 38:04.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: They will probably eventually, but not in the next couple, three years.
[38:05.700 --> 38:06.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: Interesting.
[38:06.360 --> 38:10.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: We have a low-power TV station in Queens that broadcasts on Channel 6.
[38:10.420 --> 38:16.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: In fact, that's how their signal is heard on FM radios at, I think, 87.5?
[38:17.820 --> 38:18.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: 87.7.
[38:18.600 --> 38:19.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: 87.7, okay.
[38:20.020 --> 38:22.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I'm not sure what's going to happen to them after this.
[38:22.820 --> 38:31.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Are they going to continue broadcasting at low-power analog and have their FM signal get out all throughout the tri-state area, or will they be shut out as well?
[38:31.860 --> 38:33.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Are they known as a low-power station?
[38:33.680 --> 38:34.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do you know?
[38:34.200 --> 38:39.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think they are, because nobody can really get the TV station, but everybody can get the FM radio signal.
[38:40.760 --> 38:41.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, it's funny.
[38:41.820 --> 38:44.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's been some community stations like that that did that for a reason.
[38:45.020 --> 38:51.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: They chose Channel 6 out in the hinterlands for their community TV station, knowing that most people are just going to listen to them on the radio.
[38:51.860 --> 38:58.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: So they just ran the audio, you know, on a standard Channel 6 subcarrier, which happens to lie in 87.7 megahertz, roughly.
[38:59.260 --> 39:04.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they just broadcast like a test signal, like the old Indian head test pattern on video.
[39:04.340 --> 39:06.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the FCC said, no, you can't do that.
[39:06.260 --> 39:08.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: You have to have some kind of video programming on it.
[39:09.260 --> 39:10.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, that's sort of fair.
[39:11.000 --> 39:24.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the other thing that I found out by just looking at some FCC records is that Connecticut Public Television is going to be broadcasting on Channel 6 after the cutover, which means that everybody in the area probably will just get public television on 87.7.
[39:24.820 --> 39:28.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: So kiss the idea of expanded FM radio goodbye.
[39:29.040 --> 39:30.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Nothing is really going to be changing.
[39:31.200 --> 39:32.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, our phone lines are open.
[39:32.940 --> 39:34.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2900.
[39:34.900 --> 39:35.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Rob, you had a comment.
[39:36.180 --> 39:41.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, so basically, if I'm understanding this whole thing right, a chunk of material has been taken away from the public.
[39:41.840 --> 39:46.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: And in return, the public gets nothing but the chance to buy a converter box and be exposed to more adverts.
[39:46.760 --> 39:47.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: You don't sound very grateful.
[39:48.960 --> 39:51.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm just realizing that maybe I shouldn't be so grateful.
[39:52.600 --> 39:53.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: Go ahead.
[39:54.360 --> 39:57.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, the public didn't really have this airspace to begin with.
[39:57.660 --> 39:58.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's always belonged to...
[39:58.880 --> 40:03.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it should belong to the public, but it's gone to the TV stations, so...
[40:03.480 --> 40:04.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right, it's not really...
[40:04.560 --> 40:08.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, it does belong to the public, but the public really doesn't get any say in it.
[40:09.560 --> 40:11.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: Unlike here at WBAI, where you do get a say.
[40:11.380 --> 40:14.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: But we're not raising funds, so we won't focus on that too much.
[40:15.060 --> 40:17.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, again, as I said, our phone lines are open.
[40:17.580 --> 40:18.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2900.
[40:18.860 --> 40:22.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you have any comments, questions, things like that, I'd love to hear from you.
[40:22.040 --> 40:23.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: We haven't taken phone calls in a while.
[40:24.080 --> 40:25.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can I complain about my cell phone?
[40:26.040 --> 40:26.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, go ahead.
[40:26.740 --> 40:27.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, so...
[40:27.560 --> 40:29.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: What we're here for is to hear your complaints about your cell phone.
[40:29.740 --> 40:31.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a standard feature of this show.
[40:32.040 --> 40:44.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was traveling, as our listeners may know, last week, and I put my American AT&T SIM card back in my phone because I had a very important phone call to make, and I had no other way to make it.
[40:44.680 --> 40:46.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Did you have a German phone?
[40:46.260 --> 40:47.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, but it ran out of credit.
[40:48.380 --> 40:50.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I was not in Germany, so I couldn't refill it.
[40:50.600 --> 40:52.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: My German SIM card works here.
[40:52.360 --> 40:55.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: I made a phone call in the United States on my German phone.
[40:55.200 --> 40:57.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can do that if you have credit, but I had no credit.
[40:58.360 --> 41:01.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I put the SIM card in and tried to make a call, and I could not make a call.
[41:02.900 --> 41:05.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: And eventually I learned it was because my telephone had been disabled.
[41:06.520 --> 41:07.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: And this is not the first time this happened to you?
[41:07.940 --> 41:08.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is not the first time.
[41:08.860 --> 41:16.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: This happened to me previously in November, which is not that long ago, where apparently you can just call up the AT&T system and get people's phones disabled.
[41:17.360 --> 41:18.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, do you know how to do this?
[41:18.740 --> 41:19.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know how to do it.
[41:19.900 --> 41:22.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, but you called AT&T.
[41:22.400 --> 41:24.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: I called AT&T and said, I'm traveling.
[41:24.680 --> 41:25.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: What is going on?
[41:25.760 --> 41:28.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: I need to be able to make and receive phone calls.
[41:28.340 --> 41:33.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's why I have a service that works overseas, is so I can use it occasionally overseas.
[41:33.540 --> 41:36.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they're like, oh, your phone has been disabled.
[41:36.400 --> 41:39.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: Someone called the system and reported it lost or stolen.
[41:39.680 --> 41:41.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: We can re-enable it for you.
[41:41.360 --> 41:46.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they did so, but they can't tell me who did it or anything more.
[41:47.140 --> 41:49.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: And is it possible this was done online?
[41:51.260 --> 41:55.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: They told me that it was done through their automated computerized phone system.
[41:55.700 --> 41:57.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: And can you ask them how to do that?
[41:59.320 --> 42:01.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't want to disable my phone.
[42:01.340 --> 42:02.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: I want to enable my phone.
[42:02.380 --> 42:12.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, but my point is, if we have that information and we demonstrate it here on the radio station, I don't think it's going to last much longer because if it's as simple as you say it is...
[42:12.920 --> 42:16.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I'm looking for a volunteer victim if anyone has an AT&T...
[42:16.620 --> 42:17.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're the default victim, apparently.
[42:17.880 --> 42:19.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have already been victimized twice.
[42:19.780 --> 42:21.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm looking for a new victim.
[42:21.220 --> 42:26.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: But if we victimize you live on the air and prove that it actually does disable your phone and you don't need...
[42:26.320 --> 42:29.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: You say you don't need any kind of proof of identity.
[42:29.080 --> 42:30.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: What they've told me is...
[42:30.080 --> 42:32.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Account number, perhaps, or a social security number?
[42:32.300 --> 42:37.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: What they've told me is that since I complained enough, they have now put a secret passcode on my account.
[42:37.060 --> 42:39.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: So my account is protected now, they say.
[42:39.820 --> 42:39.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[42:40.320 --> 42:46.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: But until a few days ago, my account was unprotected and apparently it was very easy.
[42:46.080 --> 42:46.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[42:46.660 --> 42:48.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the default is to not protect the account.
[42:48.640 --> 42:48.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[42:49.620 --> 42:49.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[42:49.880 --> 42:59.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, if anybody knows about this, we'd sure like to know more information because it sounds like something from the 1980s that they really should have fixed and, you know, you need passwords, you need some kind of verification.
[42:59.640 --> 43:06.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they insist, obviously counterfactually, that they don't even have caller ID to know who was making the call that disabled my phone.
[43:06.820 --> 43:07.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's very strange.
[43:08.400 --> 43:09.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, that would be helpful.
[43:09.560 --> 43:10.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Can they tell you when it happened at least?
[43:11.520 --> 43:12.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: I believe they told...
[43:12.660 --> 43:16.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it was on the 3rd of January, but what good does that do me?
[43:17.320 --> 43:17.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's true.
[43:19.400 --> 43:20.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know.
[43:20.940 --> 43:21.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: AT&T.
[43:21.760 --> 43:22.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: AT&T, yeah.
[43:24.120 --> 43:29.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: The story did have a weird ending in that I found a payphone in Switzerland that actually took my U.S.
[43:29.660 --> 43:33.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: credit card and let me make a phone call with it, which was kind of unexpected.
[43:33.280 --> 43:35.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is that unusual, that payphones take credit cards?
[43:35.080 --> 43:38.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: It just sucked my credit card in and did something.
[43:38.740 --> 43:43.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then a voice in English came on and asked me to enter my ZIP Code and then it connected my call.
[43:43.900 --> 43:46.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, speaking of things sucking your credit card in, I had that experience today twice.
[43:47.380 --> 43:50.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know those muni meters that they have all throughout New York City?
[43:50.220 --> 43:56.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: I hate them, I really do, but they're basically, they spit out little receipts that you put in your windshield and that supposedly pays for parking.
[43:57.480 --> 44:03.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: What I'm trying to figure out, and if anybody out there has information on this, is how easy is it to forge that system?
[44:03.580 --> 44:04.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: It seems incredibly easy.
[44:04.660 --> 44:15.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: You simply print out a piece of paper with the same letterhead that's on the actual piece of paper they print out and you put the time and date that your parking is good until.
[44:15.940 --> 44:18.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it doesn't seem to be any way to really verify that.
[44:18.180 --> 44:19.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you know something about this background?
[44:19.740 --> 44:20.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I will test it out.
[44:21.180 --> 44:21.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: I got a scanner.
[44:22.980 --> 44:24.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: What did we...
[44:24.000 --> 44:25.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you know something about this, Bernie?
[44:25.700 --> 44:27.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, they just started putting them in Philadelphia.
[44:27.560 --> 44:27.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Really?
[44:28.200 --> 44:28.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[44:28.760 --> 44:30.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think they call them muni meters, but they're similar to that.
[44:31.000 --> 44:35.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: You put your money in, your credit card in, it spits out a paper receipt, you got to put it in your dashboard.
[44:35.340 --> 44:35.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[44:35.600 --> 44:39.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I noticed the receipts have a meter number on them.
[44:39.580 --> 44:39.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[44:39.820 --> 44:46.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I don't know how swift the meter maids are in looking at the receipt that's on your dash to see if the number matches the machine that's nearest to you.
[44:46.780 --> 44:50.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: But if not, somebody could very easily with an A-jet burner forge these slips.
[44:51.000 --> 44:51.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: Absolutely.
[44:51.680 --> 44:55.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: And just print them and stick them on their dash and have free parking.
[44:55.700 --> 44:59.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the other question is, are you allowed to move to a different space?
[44:59.540 --> 45:03.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, where is it written how far away from that particular meter you can go?
[45:04.580 --> 45:07.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I guess that's where it comes into the meter number that's on the receipt.
[45:07.500 --> 45:12.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you're closer to another numbered meter, then I guess ostensibly they could find you.
[45:12.300 --> 45:12.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[45:12.620 --> 45:13.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: I haven't read those.
[45:13.160 --> 45:14.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Those rules are not clear.
[45:14.440 --> 45:15.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: They don't say that anywhere.
[45:15.360 --> 45:18.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: So I don't know if I'm allowed to just park any place as long as I have that little receipt.
[45:19.020 --> 45:21.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: And also, you can do this online now, apparently.
[45:21.420 --> 45:27.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can go to some nyc.gov site and actually print out your receipts before you even get there.
[45:27.900 --> 45:30.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it seems to me like that would be ridiculously easy to forge.
[45:30.840 --> 45:31.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: If there's no spots.
[45:32.700 --> 45:33.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: What happened then?
[45:33.700 --> 45:34.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: What's that, Bernie?
[45:34.620 --> 45:40.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: One other thing is these machines where you put your credit card in, they don't do real-time authentication of the...
[45:40.280 --> 45:47.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, when you go to a merchant with a point-of-sale system and you hand your credit card and it gets an authorization code to verify that your credit card is still good.
[45:47.880 --> 45:50.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: These mini-meters, they don't do this authentication in real time.
[45:50.920 --> 45:52.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: They just assume it's a valid credit card.
[45:52.740 --> 45:55.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think mine did because it said approved after a long wait.
[45:56.140 --> 45:59.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it depends on the meter and where.
[45:59.480 --> 46:03.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that was for a 25-cent transaction on my American Express card.
[46:03.980 --> 46:05.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that, you know, I felt good.
[46:05.180 --> 46:08.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: I felt good to charge something for 25 cents on an American Express card.
[46:08.420 --> 46:09.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, let's take some phone calls.
[46:09.660 --> 46:10.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2900.
[46:10.940 --> 46:16.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Again, this music in the background is the theme to The Prisoner in tribute to Patrick McGowan, star of The Prisoner who died today.
[46:16.840 --> 46:18.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: Or at least we found out he died today.
[46:18.980 --> 46:19.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was today.
[46:19.900 --> 46:20.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was today.
[46:20.840 --> 46:31.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we can hardly recommend that show, all 17 episodes of it for anybody who has not seen it and wants something from the 1960s that has to do with Orwellian society and Big Brother and all that kind of thing, The Prisoner.
[46:32.760 --> 46:34.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: And memory to Patrick McGowan.
[46:34.460 --> 46:35.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Let's take some phone calls.
[46:35.120 --> 46:36.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2900.
[46:37.060 --> 46:37.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good evening.
[46:37.820 --> 46:38.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're on Off The Hook.
[46:39.180 --> 46:40.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hey guys, it's Hypo.
[46:41.000 --> 46:41.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hi, Hypo.
[46:41.600 --> 46:41.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: How are you?
[46:42.180 --> 46:43.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm doing good.
[46:43.080 --> 46:43.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Doing good.
[46:43.560 --> 46:44.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: I have two questions for you.
[46:45.020 --> 46:50.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was on the 2600.com site yesterday and I saw a very odd countdown clock going on.
[46:50.100 --> 46:53.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was wondering what was going on with that because apparently now it's not counting down anymore.
[46:53.360 --> 46:54.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, countdown clocks are interesting.
[46:55.100 --> 46:59.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: They usually indicate something is going to happen at a particular time, a particular date.
[47:00.640 --> 47:02.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: I believe what the number was getting less and less.
[47:02.920 --> 47:03.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: Was that what was happening?
[47:03.620 --> 47:08.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was actually looking at the code it looked like it was going to be like February 6th or February 7th.
[47:09.080 --> 47:09.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[47:09.600 --> 47:12.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: That was an odd day and there was very odd music going on behind the countdown as well.
[47:13.060 --> 47:18.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because nothing really is scheduled to happen on that day that we know of that's historic in nature.
[47:18.080 --> 47:24.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, yeah, one has to wonder what is going to happen on I believe February 7th at midnight is the correct time.
[47:25.280 --> 47:31.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: Was there a particular address that was displayed at the time of the countdown that maybe wasn't the regular address?
[47:32.580 --> 47:34.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Something like Viola.
[47:34.960 --> 47:37.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Voli, no, I think it was slash V-O-L-I.
[47:38.080 --> 47:38.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: Interesting.
[47:38.880 --> 47:48.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, if you go to www.2600.com/voli right now, you can probably see that countdown in effect and wonder what's going to happen on February 7th at midnight.
[47:48.760 --> 47:54.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hey, thanks very much, Hypo, for calling in and asking that probing question, something we're going to think about.
[47:54.160 --> 47:55.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hopefully, our listeners will think about it as well.
[47:56.920 --> 47:57.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: Let's take another phone call.
[47:58.220 --> 47:58.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good evening.
[47:58.820 --> 47:59.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're on Off The Hook.
[48:01.740 --> 48:02.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Interesting point.
[48:02.480 --> 48:03.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: Anybody want to respond?
[48:03.640 --> 48:04.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: They are off the hook.
[48:05.100 --> 48:06.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's just what I was going to say.
[48:06.080 --> 48:06.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's not the off the hook tone.
[48:07.100 --> 48:07.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good evening.
[48:07.520 --> 48:08.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're on Off The Hook.
[48:08.360 --> 48:10.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I got a question about this analog TV stuff.
[48:11.000 --> 48:13.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've got one of those converter boxes, but it doesn't work.
[48:14.020 --> 48:15.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, it doesn't work now, huh?
[48:16.340 --> 48:17.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: We've never seen one.
[48:17.340 --> 48:18.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, what's involved?
[48:18.620 --> 48:34.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a very easy connection, but it's like three wires, but I plugged it in, and it doesn't work, and I checked with a neighbor of mine, and she got a box at a different store, a much bigger box, and her picture comes in great.
[48:35.200 --> 48:35.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Really?
[48:36.600 --> 48:37.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Interesting.
[48:37.760 --> 48:38.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: Where are you located?
[48:39.160 --> 48:39.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: In Queens.
[48:39.960 --> 48:40.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: In Queens.
[48:40.600 --> 48:41.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: And what are you trying to tune into?
[48:41.780 --> 48:42.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you know the channel numbers?
[48:42.840 --> 48:44.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you need to know the particular channel numbers?
[48:45.180 --> 48:47.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's very simple.
[48:47.900 --> 48:56.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Like I said, it's not, you know, I read the directions, and I put the batteries in the remote and everything, but it doesn't seem to work.
[48:56.560 --> 48:57.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, I got a question for you.
[48:57.960 --> 49:06.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: If I go to the store and buy one of those flat-screen TVs that are already built in with this HD, do I have to get cable, or can I just plug it in as a record?
[49:07.120 --> 49:08.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, first of all, sir, are you using an antenna?
[49:09.320 --> 49:09.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[49:09.640 --> 49:10.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: You are?
[49:10.220 --> 49:11.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: What kind of antenna are you using?
[49:11.480 --> 49:12.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a RadioShack antenna.
[49:13.000 --> 49:13.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: That could be a problem.
[49:14.380 --> 49:15.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it might be a cheap antenna.
[49:16.060 --> 49:17.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I mean, here's what I would do.
[49:17.800 --> 49:24.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: I would go to your neighbors, assuming it's okay with your neighbor, and swap the box and see if it works there using the antenna system that they have.
[49:25.220 --> 49:28.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: And if it doesn't, then you notice some issue with that particular bit of hardware.
[49:30.060 --> 49:31.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Otherwise, check to make sure.
[49:31.400 --> 49:34.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Does something have to be tuned to channel 3 or channel 4, like a VCR or something like that?
[49:35.080 --> 49:35.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Channel 3, okay.
[49:35.960 --> 49:37.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, just plug it in.
[49:37.700 --> 49:37.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[49:39.420 --> 49:39.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: Packrat, yes.
[49:40.060 --> 49:43.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: The TV would have to be tuned to channel 3 or 4, depending on a switch in the box.
[49:43.920 --> 49:44.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is your TV tuned to channel 3?
[49:45.040 --> 49:46.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right, right, I did that.
[49:46.160 --> 49:48.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, I imagine he's doing the same thing his neighbor is doing.
[49:48.740 --> 49:51.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: That would be my first bit of advice, is to simply swap it out.
[49:51.620 --> 49:52.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: It could be broken.
[49:52.560 --> 49:53.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: It could be broken, too.
[49:53.760 --> 49:55.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: Electronics have been known to be broken.
[49:55.120 --> 49:56.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's to determine if it's broken or not.
[49:56.720 --> 49:58.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bernie, do you have any additional suggestions?
[49:58.640 --> 50:04.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is this an indoor or an outdoor antenna you have, and is it UHF or VHF or both?
[50:04.200 --> 50:06.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, it's a UHF, it's an indoor.
[50:07.820 --> 50:18.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you might try, it may be just what we're talking about earlier on the show, that the UHF signals for digital have a higher standard as far as you have to be stronger for you to pick it up.
[50:18.280 --> 50:21.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: So you might need a UHF antenna on your roof, pointed at the stations.
[50:22.260 --> 50:23.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Isn't this fun?
[50:23.280 --> 50:27.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Isn't progress in the technological world a blast for everybody involved?
[50:27.380 --> 50:28.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know what I think?
[50:28.100 --> 50:30.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think they want everybody to get cable TV.
[50:30.860 --> 50:32.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: It would make your life so much easier, wouldn't it?
[50:32.960 --> 50:34.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but that's what they want.
[50:34.420 --> 50:35.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, no, totally that's what they want.
[50:35.720 --> 50:38.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: Just fork over a little cash and you don't have to worry about any of this hassle.
[50:38.420 --> 50:39.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, Comcast...
[50:39.340 --> 50:39.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, listen.
[50:40.140 --> 50:48.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: I saw a Comcast advertisement who was deliberately confusing here in Philadelphia saying that, you know, didn't even mention the satellite was an option.
[50:48.840 --> 50:58.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was sort of like a DTV conversion, a public service announcement by Comcast, but they didn't even mention their prime competitor, which is like DirecTV, and they just said, but it's much easier, just switch to Comcast.
[50:58.460 --> 50:59.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: You don't have to do what all this work.
[50:59.280 --> 51:01.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Why would you expect them to mention their competitor?
[51:01.480 --> 51:01.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, right.
[51:02.140 --> 51:03.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, even I wouldn't expect that of them.
[51:03.780 --> 51:08.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because it sounded like a public service announcement as to what you need to do, and it was deceptive.
[51:09.180 --> 51:11.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, but it was run by the cable company, so you should take it for what it's worth.
[51:11.600 --> 51:17.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you see something that's actually run by, you know, DTV.gov or whatever, then they should mention all the options, obviously.
[51:17.920 --> 51:23.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Listen, sir, best of luck with your TV troubles, and hopefully after February, we'll know just where you stand.
[51:23.740 --> 51:24.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Go ahead, Pacrat.
[51:24.520 --> 51:28.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is exactly why I'm killing my cable TV connection.
[51:28.860 --> 51:30.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm just absolutely sick and tired of it.
[51:31.140 --> 51:32.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: I can't take it anymore.
[51:32.380 --> 51:32.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's gone.
[51:33.000 --> 51:34.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: So what are you going to do instead?
[51:34.220 --> 51:35.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Are you just going to go outside, read books?
[51:35.820 --> 51:38.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, you can't live I can read or I'll go onto the Internet.
[51:39.180 --> 51:39.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, there you go.
[51:40.060 --> 51:40.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Entertain myself there.
[51:40.580 --> 51:42.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, the Internet's going to switch over, too.
[51:42.220 --> 51:43.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: You won't be able to get that without a converter box soon.
[51:44.220 --> 51:45.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, that's the next move.
[51:45.400 --> 51:45.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good evening.
[51:46.020 --> 51:46.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're on Off The Hook.
[51:47.800 --> 51:48.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Speak up, please.
[51:49.580 --> 51:49.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[51:50.220 --> 51:50.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Go ahead.
[51:50.540 --> 51:51.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: What's on your mind?
[51:51.820 --> 51:56.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: I was calling about the Muni meter tickets that you guys were talking about earlier.
[51:56.340 --> 51:57.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, yes.
[51:57.200 --> 52:08.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, granted, I've never scanned them and printed new times on it, but I do travel around with my car, and I have about five different tickets that I just periodically lay up there, and I'm yet to get a ticket.
[52:08.400 --> 52:16.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: So you think if you just put something that looks like a Muni ticket in your windshield, it is going to say, oh, there's a Muni ticket there, and never actually check the time or numbers?
[52:17.100 --> 52:21.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: I actually use the old tickets that I have in my car.
[52:21.860 --> 52:22.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[52:22.560 --> 52:27.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Whenever I park now, I just put one of them in the middle of the dashboard, and I've yet to get a ticket.
[52:27.240 --> 52:28.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've done it now for months.
[52:28.500 --> 52:29.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, I don't understand that.
[52:29.460 --> 52:35.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: The whole parking meter system where you put quarters into the machine and you had a little flag that went up, what was wrong with that?
[52:35.440 --> 52:36.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: That seemed to work.
[52:36.640 --> 52:38.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: Except the ones downstairs that don't work.
[52:38.340 --> 52:41.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Apparently, it required a lot of maintenance, and it's hard to change the rates.
[52:42.180 --> 52:42.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, meter maids.
[52:43.320 --> 52:46.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: Meter maids must not be happy about Muni meters because you don't need meter maids anymore.
[52:46.880 --> 52:47.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Probably not, no.
[52:47.860 --> 52:48.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[52:48.660 --> 52:51.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I've never been happy with meter maids, so thank you for that.
[52:51.200 --> 52:55.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, usually, thanks for the call, but usually your encounters with meter maids are not pleasant ones.
[52:56.120 --> 52:56.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good evening.
[52:57.160 --> 52:58.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're on Off The Hook.
[52:58.620 --> 52:58.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello.
[52:59.260 --> 52:59.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hi, what's on your mind?
[53:01.560 --> 53:05.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: I would like to also relay the sad news, unless it's a hoax, which I hope it is.
[53:05.900 --> 53:10.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, regardless, I don't think it's a hoax, but Ricardo Montalban has also died.
[53:10.240 --> 53:12.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: I heard that on my way into the station today, yes.
[53:13.200 --> 53:15.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's been a bad day for actors, hasn't it?
[53:15.420 --> 53:21.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, well, I would like to thank you guys for running Hope 6 that I attended.
[53:21.600 --> 53:24.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: I was actually wearing a black jacket.
[53:25.400 --> 53:26.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, wow.
[53:26.420 --> 53:27.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: White piping.
[53:27.480 --> 53:27.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Nice.
[53:28.120 --> 53:34.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Although, I believe Cheshire Catalyst was the only one to recognize and mention it to me.
[53:34.700 --> 53:36.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, I think many people recognized it.
[53:36.380 --> 53:38.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think everybody in the studio appreciates that.
[53:38.300 --> 53:39.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: What was your number, sir?
[53:40.480 --> 53:41.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't remember.
[53:41.640 --> 53:42.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: You don't know your number?
[53:43.980 --> 53:45.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: How could you not know your number?
[53:46.540 --> 53:47.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: My goodness.
[53:47.920 --> 53:50.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Basically, a lot of people still refer to themselves by their numbers.
[53:51.120 --> 53:53.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: We introduced all the speakers with their numbers.
[53:53.700 --> 54:02.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: I believe it was four digits, but I have a picture of myself with you as well as a picture of my badge, I believe.
[54:06.440 --> 54:06.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Amazing.
[54:07.140 --> 54:08.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, well...
[54:08.020 --> 54:10.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you for Hope 6 and thank you for the last Hope as well.
[54:10.840 --> 54:12.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, hopefully we'll see you at the next Hope.
[54:12.240 --> 54:12.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: I hope so, too.
[54:13.140 --> 54:13.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, take care.
[54:14.520 --> 54:15.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's very nice you can say hope in a sentence.
[54:15.740 --> 54:16.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: Go ahead, Rob.
[54:16.080 --> 54:18.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: I did see more than one person with that outfit on.
[54:18.900 --> 54:19.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: I did, too.
[54:19.240 --> 54:20.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: The jacket, the plimsolls, everything.
[54:21.600 --> 54:22.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, let's take another phone call.
[54:23.240 --> 54:24.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good evening, you're on Off The Hook.
[54:25.100 --> 54:27.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I had to make a couple of comments about digital TV.
[54:27.960 --> 54:34.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: I live in Pennsylvania, and you're right, the signals are weaker because UHF inherently needs more power to transmit.
[54:36.000 --> 54:43.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I had to buy an elaborate antenna system with an amplifier and to make sure you point in the direction of the tower.
[54:43.640 --> 54:49.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: And even with all these extra investments, I still can't pick up channel 13 now.
[54:49.320 --> 54:51.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: I used to pick it up with analog before, but I can't get it now.
[54:52.440 --> 54:54.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, it's going to be a lot more difficult.
[54:54.760 --> 54:55.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Go ahead, Mike.
[54:55.240 --> 55:00.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: So some of the channels will actually increase in power after the switchover happens.
[55:01.200 --> 55:08.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Channel 13 in particular has a very weak signal for the moment, and allegedly it will get stronger when some...
[55:08.860 --> 55:09.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: A weak digital signal.
[55:09.540 --> 55:10.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: A weak digital signal, yes.
[55:11.140 --> 55:16.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: And allegedly it will get stronger when some analog channel, which is in the way, gets out of the way.
[55:16.240 --> 55:21.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: But of course, channel 13 is a VHF station, so it's already going to be stronger than a UHF station.
[55:21.960 --> 55:25.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: So I'm worried about those people that have to switch over to that.
[55:25.640 --> 55:30.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: I guess we'll just see what happens in mid-February, unless it gets postponed, which supposedly Obama wants to do.
[55:30.000 --> 55:32.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: So we'll have to check that out.
[55:32.360 --> 55:33.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, we're out of time.
[55:33.660 --> 55:37.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: I just want to thank everybody for being a part of the show, and next week will be interesting.
[55:38.140 --> 55:39.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'll be returning from D.C.
[55:40.100 --> 55:43.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think next Wednesday, and have all kinds of things to report.
[55:43.920 --> 55:45.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Packard, I want to thank you for coming up.
[55:45.620 --> 55:46.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: No problem.
[55:46.040 --> 55:48.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: And for lending expertise and stuff like that.
[55:49.160 --> 55:52.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're going to go out with another phone-related song.
[55:52.400 --> 55:56.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: In fact, we're going to fade out the prisoner theme now.
[55:56.560 --> 56:08.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: And go out with another unusual, rather strange, phone-related song that also has a relationship to a particular play that some of us, a particular musical play that some of us may know.
[56:08.760 --> 56:09.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: We'll see you next week.
[56:09.960 --> 56:12.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: oth@2600.com is our email address.
[56:13.500 --> 56:14.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: Have yourselves a good night.