[00:00.000 --> 00:04.060] [SPEAKER_15]: We've set up a webpage at fsrn.org slash crisis.
[00:04.340 --> 00:10.100] [SPEAKER_15]: It has the latest of what's going on and provides some links to relevant resources about this situation.
[00:11.620 --> 00:12.500] [SPEAKER_12]: Thanks, Nathan.
[00:12.760 --> 00:15.080] [SPEAKER_12]: That was FSRN Administrator Nathan Moore.
[00:15.400 --> 00:17.400] [SPEAKER_12]: This is Free Speech Radio News.
[00:17.640 --> 00:20.080] [SPEAKER_12]: The newscast was produced by Catherine Komp.
[00:20.380 --> 00:21.040] [SPEAKER_12]: Thanks for listening.
[00:21.280 --> 00:23.140] [SPEAKER_12]: In San Francisco, I'm Danny Wood.
[00:38.590 --> 00:39.970] [SPEAKER_20]: And it's 7 o'clock.
[00:39.970 --> 00:43.210] [SPEAKER_20]: You're listening to radio station WBAI.
[00:43.930 --> 00:47.630] [SPEAKER_20]: And it's time once again for Off The Hook.
[02:41.400 --> 02:42.440] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[02:43.660 --> 02:46.120] [SPEAKER_20]: This is Emmanuel, and I am WikiLeaks.
[02:46.860 --> 02:48.580] [SPEAKER_24]: Hi, I'm Mike, and I'm WikiLeaks.
[02:49.240 --> 02:51.180] [SPEAKER_21]: Hello, I'm RedHacked, and I'm WikiLeaks.
[02:51.880 --> 02:54.140] [SPEAKER_21]: Hello, I'm DotRent, and I am WikiLeaks.
[02:54.500 --> 02:55.600] [SPEAKER_22]: Hello, I'm Rob T.
[02:55.720 --> 02:56.830] [SPEAKER_22]: Firefly, and I'm WikiLeaks.
[02:57.440 --> 02:59.640] [SPEAKER_23]: I'm Voltaire, and I'm also WikiLeaks.
[02:59.960 --> 03:01.860] [SPEAKER_25]: I'm Kyle, and I'm WikiLeaks.
[03:03.600 --> 03:06.200] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm Bernie S., and I am WikiLeaks.
[03:08.320 --> 03:09.180] [SPEAKER_20]: And Jim?
[03:10.100 --> 03:10.980] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, me too.
[03:11.270 --> 03:12.760] [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, awesome.
[03:13.860 --> 03:15.760] [SPEAKER_20]: Yes, folks, we are all WikiLeaks.
[03:16.040 --> 03:29.000] [SPEAKER_20]: We have all committed our souls to the furtherance of this kind of action that's been going on over the last couple of years, especially several months and last few weeks and days.
[03:29.980 --> 03:31.160] [SPEAKER_20]: It's been unreal.
[03:31.480 --> 03:32.770] [SPEAKER_20]: And, of course, if you've been following...
[03:32.770 --> 03:34.560] [SPEAKER_20]: How do you not follow a story like this?
[03:34.560 --> 03:35.320] [SPEAKER_20]: This has been everywhere.
[03:35.320 --> 03:37.760] [SPEAKER_20]: This has been front page in every country in the world, hasn't it?
[03:37.880 --> 03:39.860] [SPEAKER_26]: You know, it's kind of interesting to have seen it snowball.
[03:40.160 --> 03:43.310] [SPEAKER_26]: I mean, back when we spoke to Julian and he was here in the studio...
[03:43.960 --> 03:44.500] [SPEAKER_26]: When was that?
[03:44.580 --> 03:45.660] [SPEAKER_26]: That was back in April.
[03:45.900 --> 03:46.420] [SPEAKER_26]: Beginning of April.
[03:46.720 --> 03:51.240] [SPEAKER_26]: And since then, kind of his view or the view of him...
[03:51.240 --> 03:56.260] [SPEAKER_26]: He's coming to the spotlight in the media and in, obviously, the ire of politicians.
[03:57.830 --> 04:02.880] [SPEAKER_26]: But, yeah, it's been interesting to see it grow, first with the collateral murder video and now, you know, with the cables.
[04:03.990 --> 04:06.500] [SPEAKER_26]: And it's interesting because they're also...
[04:06.500 --> 04:15.160] [SPEAKER_26]: You know, the thing is that they do do a bit of journalism on it in that they do try to redact things that could be, you know, especially sensitive.
[04:15.780 --> 04:18.360] [SPEAKER_26]: But, you know, it's...
[04:18.360 --> 04:35.460] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, the way it works, the way it works, from what I understand, is that the mass media, the newspapers that were selected by WikiLeaks to spotlight certain memos or cables or whatever, they do the work of redacting various names and saying, this is probably too sensitive.
[04:35.770 --> 04:37.900] [SPEAKER_20]: And for the most part, WikiLeaks goes along with that.
[04:38.020 --> 04:43.700] [SPEAKER_20]: And then they actually release this information afterwards, after the media has gone through it.
[04:43.740 --> 04:47.880] [SPEAKER_20]: So it's rather intelligent to have them do all that work and then release it.
[04:47.910 --> 04:51.910] [SPEAKER_20]: But it also makes them exactly the same as WikiLeaks as far as getting information out.
[04:52.020 --> 04:53.460] [SPEAKER_20]: They're doing the same thing WikiLeaks has done.
[04:53.460 --> 05:01.000] [SPEAKER_23]: Let's not forget, though, that WikiLeaks are the first people to get the information and they have to do, like, a ton of work to cure it and make sure everything, to verify it.
[05:01.120 --> 05:02.030] [SPEAKER_23]: They're just like...
[05:02.030 --> 05:03.400] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm not saying they don't do any work.
[05:03.500 --> 05:08.220] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm saying it would be impossible to do work on 250,000 documents or however many they have.
[05:08.460 --> 05:10.270] [SPEAKER_20]: And it's good to share the load like this.
[05:10.580 --> 05:12.150] [SPEAKER_21]: No one's saying they're not doing any work.
[05:12.150 --> 05:30.740] [SPEAKER_21]: But basically, what you're saying is when a lot of people are saying that they are responsible for all sorts of threats around the world because of all the secrets they released, in reality, they and other real and respected journalistic organizations have also played a part in checking.
[05:31.040 --> 05:33.160] [SPEAKER_21]: So obviously, I mean, this is...
[05:33.160 --> 05:36.380] [SPEAKER_26]: They're under attack because they're releasing things that were meant to be confidential.
[05:36.380 --> 05:39.940] [SPEAKER_26]: They're meant to be private and just exchanges between, you know, just different diplomats.
[05:40.380 --> 05:42.980] [SPEAKER_26]: And so obviously, the politicians would be embarrassed.
[05:43.200 --> 05:52.700] [SPEAKER_26]: There are things in there that, you know, different countries talking about other countries, you know, everybody apparently wants Iran to be bombed, things like that, that, you know, are sensitive.
[05:53.290 --> 05:55.600] [SPEAKER_26]: But the fact of the matter is that the genie is out of the bottle.
[05:55.780 --> 06:01.400] [SPEAKER_26]: And so it's kind of, you know, it's tough to say what the right move is for the government to go from here.
[06:02.700 --> 06:09.810] [SPEAKER_26]: And also, just one thing I'd like to mention is that there is this insurance file that was released a while back to P2P Network.
[06:09.930 --> 06:11.280] [SPEAKER_26]: It's number one on Billboard now.
[06:11.340 --> 06:12.780] [SPEAKER_26]: About 100,000 people, I think, have this.
[06:12.920 --> 06:13.920] [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, a lot more by now.
[06:14.050 --> 06:15.500] [SPEAKER_26]: Probably, at this point.
[06:15.660 --> 06:17.400] [SPEAKER_26]: But, and so if...
[06:17.400 --> 06:24.120] [SPEAKER_26]: So right now, you know, WikiLeaks and the journalistic organizations are going through the process of kind of trying to redact things before they post them.
[06:24.500 --> 06:33.760] [SPEAKER_26]: But, you know, if the whole thing were just to go away or be taken down or something were to happen, all it would take was one of the people, and I'm sure there are more than one, who know the password to release it.
[06:33.760 --> 06:37.750] [SPEAKER_26]: And then suddenly, you know, all of these hundreds of thousands of people now have the...
[06:38.340 --> 06:43.120] [SPEAKER_26]: Well, we assume this is what's in it, but have the unredacted diplomatic tables.
[06:43.240 --> 06:44.920] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm curious how that password is going to be released.
[06:45.290 --> 06:48.420] [SPEAKER_20]: Will Julian just stare into the camera and say, the red dog jumps over the moon?
[06:49.400 --> 06:50.480] [SPEAKER_20]: Everyone's going to type that in.
[06:50.620 --> 06:50.660] [SPEAKER_20]: He very well could.
[06:50.810 --> 06:53.120] [SPEAKER_20]: And all of a sudden, the whole world is going to implode.
[06:53.290 --> 06:55.100] [SPEAKER_20]: It's just so, so Hollywood.
[06:55.100 --> 07:04.810] [SPEAKER_26]: So I think it's kind of, you know, I mean, I understand why the government would want to go after him and demonize him and the organization, but I don't know how much they can do at this point.
[07:04.810 --> 07:09.720] [SPEAKER_20]: The fact of the matter is, the information was out there from the moment it was leaked, period.
[07:10.000 --> 07:12.660] [SPEAKER_20]: And it was out there before then, because way too many people had access to it.
[07:12.860 --> 07:23.120] [SPEAKER_20]: One guy who seems to have really gotten it is the Australian finance minister, who earlier today, his name is Kevin Rudd, he said the United States is to blame for the release of the diplomatic cables.
[07:23.640 --> 07:26.980] [SPEAKER_20]: He said that he doesn't care about the criticism.
[07:27.220 --> 07:31.540] [SPEAKER_20]: He says, I don't give a damn about the criticism of him in the cables, because his name showed up there as well.
[07:32.310 --> 07:42.900] [SPEAKER_20]: Now, the prime minister of Australia, Julia Gillard, had earlier called Mr. Assange's release of the cables grossly irresponsible.
[07:44.260 --> 07:51.640] [SPEAKER_20]: And this is the first indication that a government actually is standing behind him, his home country.
[07:51.640 --> 07:53.880] [SPEAKER_20]: In fact, he's seen as a folk hero there.
[07:54.340 --> 07:57.460] [SPEAKER_20]: Most people seem to think he's doing something really courageous.
[07:57.960 --> 08:06.930] [SPEAKER_20]: And this guy is basically stepping forward as one of the first political leaders to actually say something in support.
[08:10.540 --> 08:13.140] [SPEAKER_24]: Well, there are other governments that are supporting him as well.
[08:13.220 --> 08:26.140] [SPEAKER_24]: The government of Bolivia, the vice president of Bolivia, is mirroring on the website of the vice president of Bolivia, all embassy cables related to Bolivia, and translating them into Spanish so that people in Bolivia can read what the U.S.
[08:26.220 --> 08:27.280] [SPEAKER_24]: government is saying about them.
[08:27.460 --> 08:28.020] [SPEAKER_20]: That's nice.
[08:28.320 --> 08:39.060] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, as many people probably know, Julian Assange was taken into custody in London, and he has not been released on bail.
[08:39.340 --> 08:40.800] [SPEAKER_20]: You know, I kind of expected that to happen.
[08:40.900 --> 08:42.360] [SPEAKER_20]: People are saying they're surprised that he wasn't released.
[08:42.460 --> 08:45.520] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm not surprised that they refused to do that.
[08:45.900 --> 08:53.360] [SPEAKER_20]: What I find interesting, though, is that right after he was taken into custody, that's when we first started hearing words from the U.S.
[08:53.440 --> 09:03.160] [SPEAKER_20]: government that they're looking into extradition from Sweden, which right away points to this whole thing being orchestrated to get him into custody so they could do just that.
[09:03.160 --> 09:08.680] [SPEAKER_20]: So all the people who were saying, oh, this is part of a smear campaign and were dismissed as being crazy, not so crazy now.
[09:08.960 --> 09:12.500] [SPEAKER_26]: Well, now, wasn't it initially that these charges were raised and then they were dropped?
[09:12.760 --> 09:17.140] [SPEAKER_26]: And then some politician stepped in and then had them, you know, re-raised or something like that.
[09:17.260 --> 09:18.640] [SPEAKER_26]: Like, they had dropped them at one point.
[09:18.860 --> 09:30.020] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, at one point they were dropped and then reinstated, but they were reinstated after the two accusers got an attorney that really wants to push this thing through.
[09:30.020 --> 09:34.640] [SPEAKER_20]: Now, I'm not going to pretend to know what actually happened or who's saying what.
[09:34.840 --> 09:37.380] [SPEAKER_20]: The thing is, it's got nothing to do with this issue.
[09:37.460 --> 09:39.260] [SPEAKER_20]: It's got nothing to do with WikiLeaks itself.
[09:39.460 --> 09:45.380] [SPEAKER_20]: So anybody who makes that connection obviously is using that for that purpose as an advantage.
[09:45.520 --> 09:51.120] [SPEAKER_20]: Get him on a parking ticket or get him on some kidnapping charge from 20 years ago.
[09:51.280 --> 09:54.020] [SPEAKER_20]: And it's got nothing to do with the WikiLeaks.
[09:54.100 --> 09:54.620] [SPEAKER_20]: That's my point.
[09:55.100 --> 09:57.760] [SPEAKER_26]: Isn't WikiLeaks currently being hosted in Sweden?
[09:58.160 --> 09:58.880] [SPEAKER_20]: I believe so.
[09:58.960 --> 09:59.660] [SPEAKER_20]: It's in that mountain.
[09:59.880 --> 10:01.180] [SPEAKER_20]: That's the James Bond thing.
[10:01.280 --> 10:02.080] [SPEAKER_20]: It's inside a mountain.
[10:02.540 --> 10:04.620] [SPEAKER_20]: I think they actually filmed a James Bond movie in there too.
[10:04.720 --> 10:08.380] [SPEAKER_24]: It's in Switzerland and it's also in France and there's some servers in Holland.
[10:09.120 --> 10:10.640] [SPEAKER_24]: And the domain is in Switzerland.
[10:10.640 --> 10:15.200] [SPEAKER_24]: So they really have a transnational hosting situation going on, which is wise.
[10:15.220 --> 10:17.320] [SPEAKER_26]: They need to put it on that floating oil rig.
[10:17.620 --> 10:18.680] [SPEAKER_24]: Didn't that get bombed?
[10:19.140 --> 10:19.500] [SPEAKER_24]: Sealand?
[10:20.140 --> 10:20.500] [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah.
[10:20.780 --> 10:21.660] [SPEAKER_24]: I think it blew up.
[10:21.720 --> 10:22.040] [SPEAKER_24]: I don't think it blew up.
[10:22.040 --> 10:22.840] [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know what happened to it.
[10:22.840 --> 10:25.180] [SPEAKER_20]: But the thing is, a lot of people are mirroring now.
[10:25.440 --> 10:27.720] [SPEAKER_20]: There's thousands of mirrors, I think.
[10:27.740 --> 10:28.820] [SPEAKER_24]: Over a thousand at least.
[10:29.520 --> 10:31.060] [SPEAKER_20]: And what we're doing is we're pointing.
[10:31.280 --> 10:34.900] [SPEAKER_20]: And this is how we got into trouble with the Motion Picture Association of America back in 2000.
[10:34.900 --> 10:36.820] [SPEAKER_20]: We pointed to the DeCSS code.
[10:36.960 --> 10:37.780] [SPEAKER_20]: That's all it took.
[10:37.980 --> 10:43.200] [SPEAKER_20]: And because our name begins with a 2 and it comes before A, we're the first on a list.
[10:43.340 --> 10:46.240] [SPEAKER_20]: So if they're looking to sue people, they find us first.
[10:46.340 --> 10:47.440] [SPEAKER_20]: And then they find out we're hackers.
[10:47.800 --> 10:50.700] [SPEAKER_20]: And it's like, oh yeah, no judge is going to rule in favor of hackers.
[10:50.840 --> 10:54.380] [SPEAKER_20]: So yeah, we're putting ourselves on the line by just doing this, by just pointing.
[10:54.380 --> 10:56.800] [SPEAKER_20]: But you can't not do something in a situation like this.
[10:56.860 --> 11:11.560] [SPEAKER_20]: So as soon as all the nonsense started happening last week with Amazon removing Wikileaks.org or removing the service to Wikileaks.org, and then the site moved over to Wikileaks.ch in Switzerland, and that disappeared.
[11:11.720 --> 11:13.060] [SPEAKER_20]: It started to get a little confusing.
[11:13.080 --> 11:14.200] [SPEAKER_20]: Where do I find Wikileaks?
[11:14.360 --> 11:15.420] [SPEAKER_20]: Wikileaks.nl works?
[11:15.520 --> 11:16.480] [SPEAKER_20]: Wikileaks.de works?
[11:16.480 --> 11:17.420] [SPEAKER_20]: But maybe it won't tomorrow.
[11:17.800 --> 11:23.220] [SPEAKER_20]: So what we did was we made Wikileaks.2600.com point to whatever one is working right now.
[11:23.280 --> 11:27.480] [SPEAKER_20]: So if they take down 10 tomorrow, we'll find one that works and point it there.
[11:28.100 --> 11:30.620] [SPEAKER_20]: And of course, now you have all the mirrors as well, which is great.
[11:30.720 --> 11:32.540] [SPEAKER_20]: This is not going away anytime soon.
[11:32.800 --> 11:34.000] [SPEAKER_20]: I know, Bernie, you've got something on this.
[11:34.080 --> 11:34.240] [SPEAKER_20]: Go ahead.
[11:34.700 --> 11:46.040] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I wanted to point out to our listeners that yes, Julian Assange is in prison in London right now, but he has not been charged with committing any crime, nor has anyone at Wikileaks been charged with committing any crime.
[11:46.500 --> 11:48.860] [SPEAKER_06]: Yet, we have high-ranking U.S.
[11:48.940 --> 11:56.640] [SPEAKER_06]: government officials, like Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, pressuring Amazon.com to stop hosting Wikileaks web services.
[11:57.000 --> 11:58.240] [SPEAKER_06]: We have other U.S.
[11:58.440 --> 12:14.640] [SPEAKER_06]: government officials pressuring Visa, International, MasterCard, and eBay, which owns PayPal, to stop accepting electronic donation payments to Wikileaks from its many supporters around the world in order to strangle Wikileaks financially.
[12:14.960 --> 12:19.480] [SPEAKER_06]: And we also have a leaked Pentagon document proving the existence of a U.S.
[12:19.600 --> 12:23.280] [SPEAKER_06]: military strategy to prevent Wikileaks from continuing to publish.
[12:23.460 --> 12:25.540] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, I'd like to get into that a little bit more later.
[12:25.540 --> 12:37.500] [SPEAKER_20]: But something that was revealed today involving PayPal, they say, a PayPal executive now says his company's decision to suspend payments to Wikileaks came after the U.S.
[12:37.620 --> 12:41.280] [SPEAKER_20]: State Department said the whistleblower site was engaged in illegal activity.
[12:41.420 --> 12:43.460] [SPEAKER_20]: Now, the State Department says they didn't send such a memo.
[12:43.660 --> 12:50.460] [SPEAKER_20]: This PayPal executive says they did, and it's the first indication, really, that there was pressure from the U.S.
[12:50.540 --> 12:51.100] [SPEAKER_20]: government on this.
[12:51.100 --> 12:57.140] [SPEAKER_24]: See, there's a clarification needed, because Wikileaks, as of even a couple weeks ago, did not have a PayPal account.
[12:57.500 --> 13:13.500] [SPEAKER_24]: What does have a PayPal account is, or did anyway, until recently, is the Wauholland Foundation, which is run by some folks, mostly from the CCC in Germany, and does things... it accepts donations on behalf of Wikileaks, but it also does all kinds of other things.
[13:13.660 --> 13:16.440] [SPEAKER_24]: And their whole financial infrastructure is being shut down.
[13:17.020 --> 13:18.160] [SPEAKER_24]: Because of the association.
[13:18.320 --> 13:19.720] [SPEAKER_24]: Because of the association with Wikileaks.
[13:19.720 --> 13:24.220] [SPEAKER_24]: So they're suing PayPal and some others, and hopefully they'll come out.
[13:24.220 --> 13:27.780] [SPEAKER_20]: But it just goes to show how all kinds of people get affected by this.
[13:27.960 --> 13:28.840] [SPEAKER_20]: They supported Wikileaks.
[13:28.980 --> 13:34.040] [SPEAKER_20]: They said, OK, we're going to help you by running... by having PayPal funds get forwarded to you.
[13:34.380 --> 13:44.080] [SPEAKER_20]: And because somebody at the State Department decides that Wikileaks is breaking the law, even as you said, they have not been charged with any crime, PayPal just unilaterally shuts them down.
[13:44.300 --> 13:51.140] [SPEAKER_20]: And that's just one of a series of denial of service attacks on Wikileaks.
[13:51.280 --> 13:52.300] [SPEAKER_20]: And it is a denial of service.
[13:52.400 --> 13:56.260] [SPEAKER_20]: PayPal, Visa, MasterCard, Amazon, the list keeps going on.
[13:56.360 --> 14:01.000] [SPEAKER_20]: Corporate America basically is at war with Wikileaks more so than the government at this point.
[14:01.200 --> 14:03.860] [SPEAKER_20]: Corporate America seems to be the soldiers involved in this.
[14:03.960 --> 14:08.600] [SPEAKER_20]: And the government is sitting back there saying, OK, shut them down, and we'll make them powerless.
[14:08.800 --> 14:09.660] [SPEAKER_20]: It's not working, though.
[14:09.660 --> 14:14.800] [SPEAKER_24]: Well, that's because the government, at least in certain cases, is constrained by the state of the laws that they actually exist.
[14:15.500 --> 14:22.840] [SPEAKER_24]: In order to throw someone in jail, the government needs to find a law that was on the books before the action in question was committed and show that you broke it.
[14:23.260 --> 14:26.260] [SPEAKER_24]: But they can just say you broke the law and scare Amazon.
[14:26.460 --> 14:33.080] [SPEAKER_24]: And Amazon can terminate a service for any reason, as can apparently Visa, MasterCard, and PayPal, and who knows who else?
[14:33.280 --> 14:34.900] [SPEAKER_24]: Every DNS, the DNS provider.
[14:34.900 --> 14:41.180] [SPEAKER_20]: A number of people have been going around finding other groups that PayPal is still providing service to.
[14:41.300 --> 14:43.240] [SPEAKER_20]: We found the American Fascist Movement.
[14:43.640 --> 14:46.160] [SPEAKER_20]: I think that's our URL, AmericanFascistMovement.com.
[14:46.220 --> 14:47.660] [SPEAKER_20]: They have a PayPal account, no problem.
[14:47.780 --> 14:48.680] [SPEAKER_20]: They're fascists.
[14:48.780 --> 14:50.280] [SPEAKER_20]: They started World War II, for God's sake.
[14:50.420 --> 14:50.780] [SPEAKER_20]: Leaks.
[14:51.160 --> 14:52.120] [SPEAKER_20]: What do leaks do?
[14:52.200 --> 14:53.520] [SPEAKER_20]: They reveal information.
[14:53.680 --> 14:54.880] [SPEAKER_20]: Which is more dangerous, PayPal?
[14:55.500 --> 14:56.700] [SPEAKER_24]: I don't think it's relevant.
[14:56.840 --> 14:58.440] [SPEAKER_24]: I think they should both be allowed to receive donations.
[14:58.700 --> 14:58.820] [SPEAKER_24]: I agree with you.
[14:58.880 --> 14:59.340] [SPEAKER_20]: I agree with you.
[14:59.380 --> 15:00.580] [SPEAKER_20]: This is not PayPal's call.
[15:00.680 --> 15:04.060] [SPEAKER_20]: They should not be the moral police of the Internet saying, oh, you're righteous.
[15:04.060 --> 15:04.500] [SPEAKER_20]: You're not.
[15:04.640 --> 15:05.900] [SPEAKER_20]: You get to have funds come in.
[15:06.020 --> 15:07.660] [SPEAKER_20]: If you want to be a bank, act like a bank.
[15:07.820 --> 15:10.860] [SPEAKER_20]: Don't act like the, you know, the moral police here.
[15:12.600 --> 15:16.060] [SPEAKER_24]: Well, Julian's Swiss bank shut his account down as well.
[15:16.140 --> 15:16.380] [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah.
[15:16.560 --> 15:18.280] [SPEAKER_24]: His personal account or something like that.
[15:18.320 --> 15:18.720] [SPEAKER_24]: Very strange.
[15:18.780 --> 15:26.400] [SPEAKER_20]: And what they don't seem to realize is that every one of these attacks, these shutdowns, simply mobilizes the people that support him more.
[15:26.800 --> 15:28.120] [SPEAKER_20]: There would not be so many mirrors.
[15:28.120 --> 15:33.560] [SPEAKER_20]: There would not be the pointers that we're doing without all of this, without this attack going on in the first place.
[15:33.760 --> 15:37.600] [SPEAKER_21]: Now, with all this stuff going on, I had some interesting suggestions from people.
[15:37.800 --> 15:43.980] [SPEAKER_21]: Like, you know, they were saying maybe we need a new sticker campaign, you know, a free Julian or even, say, WikiLeaks.
[15:44.400 --> 15:45.820] [SPEAKER_20]: You want me to buy the stickers again?
[15:46.060 --> 15:47.360] [SPEAKER_20]: I did it for Kevin, you know?
[15:47.520 --> 15:47.660] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[15:48.780 --> 15:51.520] [SPEAKER_20]: But, yeah, I think everyone knows Julian now.
[15:51.640 --> 15:55.900] [SPEAKER_20]: It's just so weird to see this guy who, you know, we hung out with.
[15:55.900 --> 15:58.000] [SPEAKER_20]: It's just all of a sudden, front page news everywhere.
[15:58.500 --> 16:04.780] [SPEAKER_20]: And in such a way, I've never seen anybody vilified so quickly as having all this power and you don't know what he's going to do next.
[16:04.900 --> 16:09.840] [SPEAKER_21]: Like Red Hat said, it's very interesting to see how this snowballed.
[16:09.840 --> 16:12.900] [SPEAKER_21]: Actually, personally watch this go from step one to step two and so on.
[16:13.100 --> 16:21.340] [SPEAKER_22]: I, for one, would just really love to see the looks on all the politician and pundits' faces when they realize that Julian was arrested and yet WikiLeaks is still a thing that's going on without him.
[16:22.360 --> 16:23.160] [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, absolutely.
[16:24.460 --> 16:37.780] [SPEAKER_25]: I'm actually really interested in the fact that some of these corporations are basically, like you guys said, the foot soldiers of, you know, making WikiLeaks unfavorable and uncool.
[16:38.000 --> 16:41.660] [SPEAKER_25]: And it's sort of an interesting element how it's a social thing.
[16:41.800 --> 16:58.820] [SPEAKER_25]: Like if, you know, the places where people are, you know, doing their holiday shopping or whatever start saying, well, this journalistic organization is uncool, you know, that's like a pretty, it's a pretty lousy tactic, but I think that's, you know, sort of a weak attempt at making people sort of start to,
[16:59.160 --> 17:05.240] [SPEAKER_25]: you know, think that they're, you know, not something that are not an honorable organization.
[17:05.320 --> 17:07.080] [SPEAKER_25]: And then, you know, then it falls out of favor.
[17:07.160 --> 17:13.540] [SPEAKER_25]: And then, of course, the facts get lost and then it becomes, you know, even more skewed and fake, you know.
[17:13.540 --> 17:16.860] [SPEAKER_20]: Now, what did Joe Lieberman do today regarding the New York Times?
[17:16.920 --> 17:17.440] [SPEAKER_20]: Was that yesterday?
[17:17.680 --> 17:20.840] [SPEAKER_20]: He's actually wants to go after them now as well?
[17:20.940 --> 17:21.140] [SPEAKER_20]: Walter?
[17:21.240 --> 17:26.960] [SPEAKER_23]: He said that they could be equally prosecutable, if that's a word.
[17:27.040 --> 17:27.380] [SPEAKER_23]: He said that.
[17:27.620 --> 17:27.780] [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[17:28.020 --> 17:28.300] [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[17:28.380 --> 17:40.700] [SPEAKER_21]: You know, I think this is just good because if he starts attacking, you know, real big journalist organizations that have clout in the United States, now they are grouped with WikiLeaks and now they're already on one side of the fence.
[17:40.700 --> 17:48.540] [SPEAKER_21]: And that's much more of more resources to help show people that this this is not something to be fearful of.
[17:49.420 --> 17:49.980] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, go ahead, Bernie.
[17:50.460 --> 18:02.420] [SPEAKER_06]: I just want to say that right after Senator Lieberman pressured Amazon.com to stop hosting WikiLeaks, as you just pointed out, he strongly denounced the New York Times for publishing stories and excerpts about these leaked U.S.
[18:02.480 --> 18:03.200] [SPEAKER_06]: State Department cables.
[18:03.380 --> 18:10.300] [SPEAKER_06]: But this is a really dangerous situation because WikiLeaks, call it what you want, but it is a news media outlet.
[18:10.560 --> 18:11.860] [SPEAKER_06]: It's a news media outlet.
[18:12.300 --> 18:14.040] [SPEAKER_06]: It doesn't actually write stories.
[18:14.040 --> 18:16.680] [SPEAKER_06]: It just publishes information that is clearly news.
[18:16.980 --> 18:19.020] [SPEAKER_06]: So you have high-ranking U.S.
[18:19.100 --> 18:38.800] [SPEAKER_06]: government officials like Senator Joe Lieberman overtly and covertly pressuring web hosting providers and payment processors like Visa, MasterCard, PayPal, to cut off services to a news media outlet without any, you know, judicial oversight, no warrant,
[18:39.140 --> 18:40.320] [SPEAKER_06]: no criminal charges.
[18:40.640 --> 18:44.360] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, and now Joe Lieberman is ranting about the New York Times.
[18:44.540 --> 18:50.580] [SPEAKER_06]: So they're going to call the New York Times web hosting provider and say, cut them off.
[18:50.720 --> 18:54.520] [SPEAKER_06]: This is a full-out government attack on the First Amendment.
[18:54.520 --> 18:56.520] [SPEAKER_06]: And this is really scary stuff, in my opinion.
[18:56.680 --> 18:59.140] [SPEAKER_20]: And it's more than just the First Amendment because this is global.
[18:59.400 --> 19:10.220] [SPEAKER_20]: And this is something... I never thought I'd see this kind of thing happen in my lifetime, where basically governments are pitted against people worldwide.
[19:11.020 --> 19:12.580] [SPEAKER_20]: Everyone wants to see what's happening here.
[19:12.620 --> 19:19.020] [SPEAKER_20]: Every government is against them seeing it because they all are going to get black eyes somehow by having things revealed about them that they want to keep secret.
[19:19.120 --> 19:20.620] [SPEAKER_20]: And there's nothing they can do about it.
[19:20.660 --> 19:23.700] [SPEAKER_20]: The information is out there and people really want to see this.
[19:24.480 --> 19:28.800] [SPEAKER_20]: So yeah, it's very interesting times and we don't know where it's going to go from here.
[19:29.580 --> 19:37.700] [SPEAKER_20]: And what you say about the New York Times, how are they any different than WikiLeaks as far as what they are doing?
[19:37.780 --> 19:47.140] [SPEAKER_20]: They're releasing the information, they've gotten leaked documents, and they're as guilty as WikiLeaks in, I think, the eyes of many of these politicians.
[19:47.240 --> 19:49.200] [SPEAKER_20]: So why don't they shut down their PayPal accounts?
[19:49.300 --> 19:50.840] [SPEAKER_20]: Why don't they take them off the Internet?
[19:50.840 --> 19:54.220] [SPEAKER_20]: Why don't they prosecute them on whatever crimes they can find?
[19:54.480 --> 19:55.580] [SPEAKER_26]: But they have press badges.
[19:55.820 --> 19:56.520] [SPEAKER_20]: They have press badges.
[19:56.520 --> 19:57.120] [SPEAKER_20]: Is that all it takes?
[19:57.260 --> 19:57.700] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, apparently.
[19:58.080 --> 19:59.180] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, okay, Walter.
[19:59.360 --> 20:03.720] [SPEAKER_23]: I think a better question is why is the New York Times editorial page so obsessed with denouncing WikiLeaks?
[20:04.140 --> 20:05.360] [SPEAKER_20]: Did they denounce WikiLeaks?
[20:05.460 --> 20:06.700] [SPEAKER_23]: Over and over the...
[20:08.000 --> 20:09.300] [SPEAKER_20]: I thought they supported WikiLeaks.
[20:09.340 --> 20:11.160] [SPEAKER_23]: No, they had the editorial pages.
[20:11.160 --> 20:15.560] [SPEAKER_20]: You're saying that they print information from WikiLeaks and then they denounce WikiLeaks.
[20:15.700 --> 20:20.180] [SPEAKER_23]: That's one of the reasons why they weren't included, and they had to get the leaks from The Guardian.
[20:20.420 --> 20:20.940] [SPEAKER_23]: They didn't have...
[20:20.940 --> 20:22.020] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, I was wondering about that.
[20:22.160 --> 20:23.400] [SPEAKER_20]: It seemed like there was a tiff of some sort.
[20:23.540 --> 20:26.000] [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, it was because last time they were so anti-Wikileaks.
[20:26.100 --> 20:26.320] [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[20:26.760 --> 20:30.980] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, again, anti-Wikileaks are just asking some pointed questions.
[20:31.600 --> 20:32.020] [SPEAKER_20]: Anti-Wikileaks.
[20:32.040 --> 20:32.600] [SPEAKER_20]: There is a difference.
[20:32.640 --> 20:33.120] [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know.
[20:33.320 --> 20:34.540] [SPEAKER_20]: I don't think...
[20:34.540 --> 20:36.160] [SPEAKER_23]: No, if you look at...
[20:36.160 --> 20:37.240] [SPEAKER_20]: Do you really think they're anti-Wikileaks?
[20:37.260 --> 20:38.960] [SPEAKER_23]: If you look at the editorial page then, yes.
[20:39.180 --> 20:40.700] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, I'd like to see the editorial in question.
[20:40.720 --> 20:40.940] [SPEAKER_20]: Mike?
[20:41.040 --> 20:51.660] [SPEAKER_24]: I think the New York Times is a very big organization and there are people in it with all sorts of different interests and it's sort of nefarious to pin down exactly what the New York Times as an entity thinks.
[20:51.740 --> 20:55.760] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, I mean, if it's the editorial, that's supposedly what the New York Times thinks.
[20:56.120 --> 20:56.500] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, but who reads that?
[20:56.500 --> 20:59.460] [SPEAKER_20]: If it's an opinion piece, that's simply opening it up to different opinions.
[20:59.520 --> 20:59.680] [SPEAKER_20]: Rob?
[21:00.380 --> 21:06.240] [SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, I think it's worth noting that the fact that Lieberman and others are willing to now attack the New York Times along with WikiLeaks.
[21:06.780 --> 21:14.100] [SPEAKER_22]: Anyone who is trying to say that WikiLeaks is not a reputable journalistic, this and that, they're being categorized right now.
[21:14.180 --> 21:16.600] [SPEAKER_22]: It's hard with the same brush with the paper of record, quote unquote.
[21:17.180 --> 21:21.140] [SPEAKER_22]: So I think when you're pissing people off on this kind of scale, you know you're doing something right.
[21:21.740 --> 21:22.460] [SPEAKER_20]: I agree.
[21:23.040 --> 21:27.220] [SPEAKER_20]: We mentioned some of the news stories that are coming out as a result of this.
[21:27.380 --> 21:28.860] [SPEAKER_20]: I see headlines all over the place.
[21:28.860 --> 21:33.300] [SPEAKER_20]: These top Chinese officials led Google hacking according to the WikiLeaks documents.
[21:34.200 --> 21:35.760] [SPEAKER_20]: Libya putting pressure on the U.K.
[21:36.140 --> 21:39.060] [SPEAKER_20]: to release the Lockerbie bomber according to WikiLeaks.
[21:39.640 --> 21:43.400] [SPEAKER_20]: All kinds of things that we're learning about that I think we have every right to know.
[21:44.240 --> 21:46.000] [SPEAKER_20]: And like we said before, it's out there.
[21:46.100 --> 21:46.720] [SPEAKER_20]: It's already there.
[21:46.880 --> 21:49.960] [SPEAKER_20]: It's a question of how many people had access to these documents?
[21:50.100 --> 21:50.620] [SPEAKER_20]: Millions of people?
[21:50.800 --> 21:51.440] [SPEAKER_20]: Several million people?
[21:51.580 --> 21:52.580] [SPEAKER_23]: Three or five million.
[21:52.820 --> 21:53.840] [SPEAKER_20]: That's a lot of people.
[21:53.980 --> 21:57.360] [SPEAKER_20]: As far as I'm concerned, it's already out there when that many people have access to it.
[21:57.360 --> 21:58.540] [SPEAKER_20]: It's just being kept from us.
[21:59.160 --> 22:02.480] [SPEAKER_20]: And I think that's not right to keep that kind of information from us.
[22:02.620 --> 22:04.660] [SPEAKER_24]: Three million people is about one percent of the country, too.
[22:04.760 --> 22:07.280] [SPEAKER_24]: It's not, you know, just a couple guys in an office somewhere.
[22:07.480 --> 22:10.160] [SPEAKER_20]: And also, another question I posed recently.
[22:10.440 --> 22:15.540] [SPEAKER_20]: How do we know how many people didn't get killed as a result of these documents coming out?
[22:15.600 --> 22:17.920] [SPEAKER_20]: How many lives were saved by the truth being revealed?
[22:18.140 --> 22:22.140] [SPEAKER_20]: We keep hearing how many people are going to be put at risk by having this information out there.
[22:22.260 --> 22:23.440] [SPEAKER_20]: It works the other way, too.
[22:23.440 --> 22:24.580] [SPEAKER_20]: It works the other way, too.
[22:24.740 --> 22:30.380] [SPEAKER_20]: If you tell people about threats and about the truth, what is being said, what's being thought, things can be avoided.
[22:30.520 --> 22:31.340] [SPEAKER_20]: Conflicts can be avoided.
[22:31.500 --> 22:32.620] [SPEAKER_20]: All sorts of things are possible.
[22:32.720 --> 22:36.300] [SPEAKER_20]: There's no way to know for sure what kind of effect anything has.
[22:36.480 --> 22:40.320] [SPEAKER_20]: So I think that's really a bad road to go down when you take that seriously.
[22:40.320 --> 22:41.360] [SPEAKER_21]: It's so true.
[22:41.560 --> 22:47.660] [SPEAKER_21]: And just one other thing to really think about is that erring on the side of openness is usually the better way to go about doing things.
[22:47.760 --> 22:54.280] [SPEAKER_21]: As soon as you try to give people permission to keep secrets from you, they're going to keep things secret that they just want to.
[22:54.620 --> 22:56.740] [SPEAKER_21]: Like you have a club of three million people.
[22:58.360 --> 23:01.660] [SPEAKER_21]: Did anyone else get to look up that proposed SHIELD law?
[23:01.860 --> 23:04.540] [SPEAKER_21]: I actually think Lieberman is actually one of the champions behind that, too.
[23:04.760 --> 23:05.580] [SPEAKER_24]: Bernie, you know anything about this?
[23:05.580 --> 23:09.680] [SPEAKER_24]: It's the exact opposite of what SHIELD laws normally do, which is protect journalists.
[23:10.740 --> 23:20.360] [SPEAKER_06]: I just want to point out that all these claims that WikiLeaks leaks were going to cause all these people to be killed.
[23:20.940 --> 23:23.200] [SPEAKER_06]: The Pentagon backpedaled on that claim.
[23:23.700 --> 23:34.420] [SPEAKER_06]: And not a single person's name, no person has been named yet who's been killed or harmed by the release of WikiLeaks leaks.
[23:34.420 --> 23:37.420] [SPEAKER_06]: WikiLeaks either, you know, in the past couple of years.
[23:38.140 --> 23:39.840] [SPEAKER_06]: So this is all hot air.
[23:40.040 --> 23:41.820] [SPEAKER_06]: It's vilifying WikiLeaks.
[23:42.240 --> 23:46.560] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think we should really look at the facts as opposed to listening to the hysteria.
[23:47.660 --> 23:48.040] [SPEAKER_20]: Absolutely.
[23:48.280 --> 23:50.740] [SPEAKER_20]: Now, there's more to this story.
[23:50.840 --> 23:54.840] [SPEAKER_20]: First of all, Interpol finally got a picture of Julian Assange.
[23:54.960 --> 23:55.420] [SPEAKER_20]: See, here it is.
[23:55.880 --> 23:58.160] [SPEAKER_20]: He looks an awful lot like Bill Maher, but...
[23:58.160 --> 24:02.440] [SPEAKER_24]: I was looking through some of my old pictures the other day and I discovered that I have pictures of Julian Assange.
[24:02.440 --> 24:03.560] [SPEAKER_24]: Everyone has pictures of Julian Assange.
[24:03.560 --> 24:04.400] [SPEAKER_24]: They're really not hard to find.
[24:04.640 --> 24:04.920] [SPEAKER_20]: No.
[24:05.060 --> 24:05.700] [SPEAKER_21]: And they have an old picture too.
[24:05.820 --> 24:06.180] [SPEAKER_21]: I'm sorry, what?
[24:06.260 --> 24:07.480] [SPEAKER_21]: They have an old picture of him too.
[24:07.580 --> 24:07.840] [SPEAKER_21]: It is.
[24:08.200 --> 24:08.480] [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[24:08.500 --> 24:09.500] [SPEAKER_20]: It's taken a very long time ago.
[24:09.620 --> 24:11.640] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm not sure if it's a copyright issue or what.
[24:11.760 --> 24:14.200] [SPEAKER_20]: But yeah, so that's an update.
[24:14.200 --> 24:15.440] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm sure that'll make it easier for them.
[24:15.440 --> 24:16.380] [SPEAKER_20]: Of course, they already found him.
[24:16.400 --> 24:17.260] [SPEAKER_20]: He wasn't really hiding.
[24:18.960 --> 24:19.240] So...
[24:19.240 --> 24:20.400] [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah, he turned...
[24:20.400 --> 24:29.560] [SPEAKER_24]: As Reddack says, the Swedish people I guess finally got their papers in order and gave them to the UK people correctly this time.
[24:29.700 --> 24:33.360] [SPEAKER_24]: And Assange came to the UK police the next day and said, hi, here I am.
[24:33.420 --> 24:34.340] [SPEAKER_24]: I heard you're looking for me.
[24:34.480 --> 24:38.180] [SPEAKER_24]: So, he's not very good at hiding if that's what he was trying to do.
[24:38.180 --> 24:38.320] [SPEAKER_20]: No.
[24:38.580 --> 24:42.380] [SPEAKER_20]: He's currently in a British prison in southwest London.
[24:43.720 --> 24:44.680] [SPEAKER_20]: And he...
[24:44.680 --> 24:45.380] [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know if...
[24:45.380 --> 24:50.300] [SPEAKER_20]: Has he been asked any questions about WikiLeaks by anybody other than fellow inmates?
[24:50.960 --> 24:56.400] [SPEAKER_20]: Because if he has been, that's a clear stepping over the line if he's actually in there for...
[24:56.400 --> 24:58.100] [SPEAKER_20]: And he's only in there for questioning too.
[24:58.440 --> 25:00.880] [SPEAKER_20]: Even the Swedes are saying he's not under arrest.
[25:01.400 --> 25:02.700] [SPEAKER_20]: I'd like to know what the difference is.
[25:03.140 --> 25:04.600] [SPEAKER_20]: They just want to talk to him.
[25:04.680 --> 25:06.080] [SPEAKER_20]: They just want to ask some questions.
[25:06.080 --> 25:09.280] [SPEAKER_21]: They just want to talk to him long enough for the US to try extraditing him.
[25:09.400 --> 25:11.200] [SPEAKER_20]: Why don't they come to England and ask him questions?
[25:11.540 --> 25:12.140] [SPEAKER_20]: Instead of extraditing...
[25:12.140 --> 25:15.920] [SPEAKER_20]: If he's not under arrest, why don't they come over to England and simply ask him questions there?
[25:16.000 --> 25:16.600] [SPEAKER_20]: Is that not allowed?
[25:16.680 --> 25:21.440] [SPEAKER_24]: I heard they have telephony links between Sweden and the United Kingdom these days.
[25:21.660 --> 25:22.640] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, but they also have train links.
[25:22.700 --> 25:24.160] [SPEAKER_20]: I can just take a train over there.
[25:24.240 --> 25:24.940] [SPEAKER_24]: That's a long train ride.
[25:24.980 --> 25:25.460] [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know.
[25:26.220 --> 25:30.100] [SPEAKER_20]: It just seems like this is something that they can deal with without all the drama.
[25:30.300 --> 25:30.440] [SPEAKER_20]: Rob.
[25:30.580 --> 25:35.200] [SPEAKER_22]: And it's worth noting that Assange had offered to the people behind this particular case.
[25:35.200 --> 25:39.600] [SPEAKER_22]: He had offered to get them on the phone to get them on the video link and to give his head of the story that way.
[25:39.700 --> 25:41.560] [SPEAKER_22]: But that wasn't good enough for some people, I guess.
[25:41.560 --> 25:42.080] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[25:42.480 --> 25:50.520] [SPEAKER_20]: Also, Representative Ron Paul of Texas is standing up as one of Julian Assange's few defenders in Washington.
[25:50.520 --> 25:54.140] [SPEAKER_20]: He said the WikiLeaks found they should get the same protections as the media.
[25:55.060 --> 25:56.640] [SPEAKER_20]: And that's very interesting.
[25:56.640 --> 25:59.100] [SPEAKER_20]: He says, in a free society, we're supposed to know the truth.
[25:59.240 --> 26:02.300] [SPEAKER_20]: In a society where truth becomes treason, then we're in big trouble.
[26:02.440 --> 26:05.420] [SPEAKER_20]: And now people who are revealing the truth are getting into trouble for it.
[26:05.540 --> 26:12.400] [SPEAKER_20]: This whole notion that Assange, who is an Australian, that we want to prosecute him for treason, aren't they jumping to a wild conclusion?
[26:12.520 --> 26:13.440] [SPEAKER_20]: This is media, isn't it?
[26:13.600 --> 26:16.460] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, why don't we prosecute the New York Times or anybody that releases this?
[26:16.460 --> 26:18.860] [SPEAKER_20]: And, unfortunately, that was in the House.
[26:19.020 --> 26:21.740] [SPEAKER_20]: But Joe Lieberman was walking by and overheard that.
[26:22.000 --> 26:24.040] [SPEAKER_20]: And now he wants to prosecute the New York Times.
[26:24.340 --> 26:25.060] [SPEAKER_20]: That's how that happened.
[26:25.880 --> 26:26.240] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[26:27.440 --> 26:29.980] [SPEAKER_20]: It's not much... not to remain secret in Washington anymore.
[26:30.020 --> 26:33.480] [SPEAKER_26]: So, I mean, the thing about the matter is, right, that these were confidential and secret.
[26:33.640 --> 26:45.860] [SPEAKER_26]: And so, if they were to find the person who's, you know, who's responsible for leaking them, and I'm not saying that they have found that person necessarily, that person might be subject to, you know, to prosecution because they did, in fact, break a law.
[26:45.860 --> 26:48.160] [SPEAKER_26]: You know, they released these things that were confidential.
[26:48.160 --> 26:52.700] [SPEAKER_26]: But the media outlets that post them, I don't think, should be responsible for that.
[26:52.720 --> 26:55.000] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, I was thinking about that, too.
[26:55.260 --> 27:05.520] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, we're talking about Bradley Manning, who's widely believed by people or by prosecutors to have been the source of at least one batch of these releases.
[27:06.480 --> 27:18.680] [SPEAKER_20]: Somebody who does that, basically, and somebody who does that and doesn't just give the information to, quote, unquote, the enemy or some rival country or faction or whatever, but gives it to everybody.
[27:19.080 --> 27:21.480] [SPEAKER_20]: That is somebody who's doing this for idealistic purposes.
[27:21.540 --> 27:25.920] [SPEAKER_20]: And they are basically sacrificing their life to get that information to us.
[27:26.040 --> 27:29.960] [SPEAKER_20]: We need to think of it in that way because this guy is in prison now.
[27:30.180 --> 27:35.900] [SPEAKER_20]: I don't think he's ever going to get out of prison for this if he is found to be one of the people involved.
[27:35.900 --> 27:41.880] [SPEAKER_20]: And his reasoning for doing this, because the truth needed to be known, that is a valiant sacrifice.
[27:43.080 --> 27:43.880] [SPEAKER_26]: Which is true.
[27:43.880 --> 27:45.700] [SPEAKER_26]: But at the same time, he did break a law.
[27:45.880 --> 27:47.720] [SPEAKER_26]: So he has... I mean, there are repercussions.
[27:47.920 --> 27:48.380] [SPEAKER_26]: Yeah, I know.
[27:48.480 --> 27:49.420] [SPEAKER_26]: I'm not saying it's not valiant.
[27:49.500 --> 27:53.380] [SPEAKER_20]: And you'll find that the most courageous people in the world break laws to make points.
[27:53.840 --> 27:58.860] [SPEAKER_24]: What's interesting is that while all this has been going on, there have been some actual spies who have been found.
[27:58.860 --> 28:03.760] [SPEAKER_24]: There was a Russian spy allegedly working in the office of a UK parliamentarian.
[28:03.920 --> 28:06.700] [SPEAKER_24]: And the punishment for that is apparently just deportation.
[28:07.460 --> 28:15.680] [SPEAKER_24]: So these espionage laws are very weakly enforced against actual spies because of the fear of reprisal.
[28:15.760 --> 28:16.660] [SPEAKER_20]: They work for different countries, though.
[28:16.720 --> 28:17.420] [SPEAKER_20]: They could be deported.
[28:17.500 --> 28:20.380] [SPEAKER_20]: If you work for your own country, I think they take a dimmer view.
[28:20.580 --> 28:20.980] [SPEAKER_20]: Apparently.
[28:21.420 --> 28:21.820] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[28:22.040 --> 28:22.920] [SPEAKER_20]: It's very strange.
[28:23.660 --> 28:24.560] [SPEAKER_20]: Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[28:24.560 --> 28:33.980] [SPEAKER_06]: I just want to point out, one of the beauties of the whole WikiLeaks infrastructure is that when you submit information to WikiLeaks, they don't know who you are.
[28:34.220 --> 28:42.800] [SPEAKER_06]: It's an encrypted system, and it's designed to specifically insulate your identity from WikiLeaks.
[28:42.940 --> 28:49.680] [SPEAKER_06]: So even if Julian Assange is waterboarded by the United States government or anyone else, he can't tell you.
[28:49.680 --> 28:56.800] [SPEAKER_06]: He can't tell anyone who submitted these leaked documents, which makes it much harder for the U.S.
[28:56.820 --> 29:05.560] [SPEAKER_06]: to prosecute WikiLeaks or Julian Assange for espionage because it makes it much harder to prove a case of conspiracy with a particular individual.
[29:06.000 --> 29:12.020] [SPEAKER_06]: But I just wanted to point that out, that WikiLeaks doesn't know who sent it any documents.
[29:12.020 --> 29:18.640] [SPEAKER_20]: So basically, they can prosecute him for keeping a secure system that maintains anonymity.
[29:19.420 --> 29:30.560] [SPEAKER_25]: I just wanted to add, I mean, they're not responsible, they're not obligated to participate or cooperate in any sort of investigation about who may or may not have committed a crime.
[29:30.740 --> 29:38.400] [SPEAKER_25]: As a journalistic organization, aren't they viewed as an institution that ought not to have to release their sources?
[29:38.400 --> 29:48.400] [SPEAKER_20]: Journalists are widely protected, but there are cases where a grand jury demands that you release a source and journalists go to prison for this kind of thing, oftentimes.
[29:48.620 --> 29:50.020] [SPEAKER_25]: But why aren't we hearing more of that now?
[29:50.700 --> 29:51.940] [SPEAKER_20]: There hasn't been a grand jury.
[29:52.080 --> 29:57.120] [SPEAKER_20]: There hasn't been any kind of indictment or any kind of crime against anyone involved in WikiLeaks.
[29:57.260 --> 29:57.340] [SPEAKER_20]: Rob?
[29:57.500 --> 30:03.540] [SPEAKER_22]: And in a neat point, the journalist who broke the story of the Pentagon Papers way back when, his name is escaping me now.
[30:04.760 --> 30:08.900] [SPEAKER_24]: Daniel Ellsberg, who's not a journalist, but worked for the RAND Corporation.
[30:09.280 --> 30:10.240] [SPEAKER_22]: That's correct.
[30:10.440 --> 30:15.320] [SPEAKER_22]: He tweeted earlier today that every single thing that's being done to Julian Assange right now was done to him back then.
[30:15.900 --> 30:16.160] [SPEAKER_22]: Uh-huh.
[30:16.960 --> 30:17.300] [SPEAKER_22]: Interesting.
[30:17.580 --> 30:18.940] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, we've been tweeting a lot, too.
[30:19.240 --> 30:22.380] [SPEAKER_20]: If you want to follow us on Twitter, we're actually 2600.
[30:22.380 --> 30:37.960] [SPEAKER_20]: And it's incredible to see the response that this story is getting simply by revealing information about something else that PayPal is doing that's hypocritical or just something in the media, some kind of observation.
[30:38.280 --> 30:41.540] [SPEAKER_20]: To see it just spread around really, really quickly is fascinating.
[30:41.640 --> 30:44.500] [SPEAKER_20]: So please send us any information that you find.
[30:44.500 --> 30:50.540] [SPEAKER_20]: oth@2600.com will be glad to spread it throughout the entire net.
[30:50.860 --> 30:52.960] [SPEAKER_20]: Now, something else that's going on that's a part of this.
[30:53.040 --> 30:54.300] [SPEAKER_20]: And by the way, we're going to take some phone calls.
[30:54.420 --> 30:58.460] [SPEAKER_20]: We're going to take a lot of phone calls beginning in a few minutes at 212-209-2900.
[30:58.540 --> 30:59.560] [SPEAKER_20]: Had a lot of good calls last week.
[30:59.640 --> 31:02.160] [SPEAKER_20]: I'd like to continue that because this is one hot story.
[31:02.680 --> 31:07.180] [SPEAKER_20]: But there is another aspect to all this, and you might have read this in today's New York Times.
[31:07.180 --> 31:25.980] [SPEAKER_20]: A small army of activist hackers orchestrated a broad campaign of cyber attacks on Wednesday in support of the beleaguered anti-secrecy organization WikiLeaks, which has drawn government criticism from around the globe for its release of classified American documents and has found that Julian Assange is being held in Britain on accusations of sex offenses.
[31:26.580 --> 31:41.780] [SPEAKER_20]: Targets include MasterCard.com, which stopped processing donations for WikiLeaks, Amazon.com, which revokes server space from the group, the online payment service PayPal, which cut off its commercial cooperation, the lawyer representing the two Swedish women who have accused Mr. Assange in the sex case,
[31:41.800 --> 31:52.800] [SPEAKER_20]: we don't have his website, and PostFinance, the Swiss postal system's financial arm, which closed Mr. Assange's account after saying he provided false information by saying that he resided in Switzerland.
[31:53.580 --> 32:08.480] [SPEAKER_20]: Now, Anonymous, a leaderless group of activist hackers that had vowed to wreak revenge on any organization that lined up against WikiLeaks, claimed responsibility for the MasterCard attack, and according to one activist associated with the group, was conducting multiple other attacks.
[32:10.960 --> 32:13.240] [SPEAKER_20]: Basically, there was another name.
[32:13.320 --> 32:16.800] [SPEAKER_20]: Anybody get the name of the group that's launching the attacks today?
[32:17.440 --> 32:17.840] [SPEAKER_20]: Anybody?
[32:18.440 --> 32:18.880] [SPEAKER_20]: No?
[32:19.040 --> 32:19.700] [SPEAKER_20]: It's all over the media.
[32:19.940 --> 32:20.940] [SPEAKER_20]: I can't find it in this story.
[32:22.200 --> 32:23.000] [SPEAKER_20]: Army of something...
[32:23.000 --> 32:23.540] [SPEAKER_20]: Operation Payback.
[32:23.680 --> 32:24.420] [SPEAKER_20]: Operation Payback.
[32:24.520 --> 32:24.720] [SPEAKER_20]: Thank you.
[32:24.780 --> 32:25.080] [SPEAKER_20]: That's it.
[32:26.440 --> 32:40.120] [SPEAKER_20]: You know, I've got real problems with this, because I think denial of service is simply doing what they did, doing what the other side did as far as cutting you off, silencing you, trying to take away your power by taking away your voice.
[32:40.640 --> 32:42.100] [SPEAKER_20]: I don't think that's the way to fight this fight.
[32:42.240 --> 32:50.200] [SPEAKER_20]: I don't think simply flooding people with data, or flooding organizations with data, and clogging up the system, I don't think that's a valid way to go about it.
[32:50.200 --> 32:54.380] [SPEAKER_20]: I think there's enough public support where that kind of thing simply isn't necessary.
[32:54.480 --> 32:54.680] [SPEAKER_20]: Dot Red?
[32:54.860 --> 33:11.500] [SPEAKER_21]: Well, one thing that I think people really should be doing, especially when you have, you know, legislators trying to propose laws that actually would make what WikiLeaks is doing a good service illegal, is to actually, you know, let your representatives know what the heck you think.
[33:11.740 --> 33:21.720] [SPEAKER_21]: You know, if they're starting to then push through with the stuff, you know, people who can, you know, do peaceful protests instead, you know, get out in the street.
[33:21.940 --> 33:22.680] [SPEAKER_26]: Or write letters.
[33:23.040 --> 33:26.980] [SPEAKER_26]: Flood those people rather than the floating packets to various sites.
[33:27.260 --> 33:30.760] [SPEAKER_20]: It just makes everybody look bad when that's...
[33:30.760 --> 33:31.580] [SPEAKER_20]: It's vandalism.
[33:31.760 --> 33:32.780] [SPEAKER_20]: It's being a thug.
[33:32.880 --> 33:37.140] [SPEAKER_20]: It's for people who have run out of ideas, that can't vocalize in words what their point is.
[33:37.220 --> 33:39.640] [SPEAKER_20]: And by calling them hackers, what's this got to do with hacking?
[33:39.640 --> 33:42.840] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm looking at something on...
[33:42.840 --> 33:43.320] [SPEAKER_20]: Gizmodo.
[33:43.540 --> 33:44.360] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, this is Gizmodo.
[33:44.760 --> 33:52.940] [SPEAKER_20]: Low Orbit Ion Cannon, an application that is designed to launch distributed denial of service attacks on websites.
[33:53.300 --> 33:54.980] [SPEAKER_20]: It's a push button application.
[33:55.540 --> 33:59.580] [SPEAKER_20]: It can allow you to participate in attacks even if you've no clue how to hack.
[33:59.680 --> 34:07.460] [SPEAKER_20]: You just download a copy of LOIC available for Windows, Mac and Linux, punch in the target information like a URL or an IP address and zap.
[34:08.200 --> 34:09.780] [SPEAKER_20]: And that's all there is to it.
[34:09.840 --> 34:10.860] [SPEAKER_20]: Where is the hacking in that?
[34:11.020 --> 34:11.560] [SPEAKER_20]: This is not hacking.
[34:12.600 --> 34:12.940] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm sorry, what?
[34:13.100 --> 34:13.700] [SPEAKER_20]: Script kitties.
[34:13.780 --> 34:14.360] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, script kitties.
[34:14.440 --> 34:15.360] [SPEAKER_20]: That's what it takes, Rob.
[34:15.780 --> 34:19.760] [SPEAKER_22]: And I think denial of service, taking down a website, that's basically censorship.
[34:20.100 --> 34:23.820] [SPEAKER_22]: And whichever direction it goes in, censorship, I personally find it offensive.
[34:23.980 --> 34:24.040] [SPEAKER_22]: Thank you.
[34:24.040 --> 34:26.660] [SPEAKER_22]: I think the enemy of bad speech is not censorship.
[34:26.680 --> 34:27.600] [SPEAKER_22]: It's better speech.
[34:27.800 --> 34:28.640] [SPEAKER_22]: So make some of that.
[34:28.800 --> 34:28.840] [SPEAKER_22]: Absolutely.
[34:28.940 --> 34:30.360] [SPEAKER_22]: You said that so much better than I could.
[34:30.400 --> 34:41.360] [SPEAKER_23]: I'm definitely not necessarily for denial of service attacks, but I don't think it's exactly the same as what they're doing to WikiLeaks because WikiLeaks is a media organization and they're a...
[34:41.360 --> 34:42.880] [SPEAKER_20]: It's attempting to silence somebody.
[34:43.000 --> 34:44.200] [SPEAKER_23]: No, but they're an infrastructure.
[34:44.420 --> 34:45.020] [SPEAKER_23]: They're a business.
[34:45.220 --> 34:49.820] [SPEAKER_23]: They're not like a political viewpoint organization.
[34:50.000 --> 34:50.540] [SPEAKER_23]: If they were like...
[34:51.060 --> 34:52.280] [SPEAKER_23]: It affects people though.
[34:52.460 --> 34:53.440] [SPEAKER_23]: It affects individual people.
[34:53.440 --> 34:57.420] [SPEAKER_23]: But if they're doing unethical things, then maybe they should...
[34:57.420 --> 34:59.160] [SPEAKER_23]: I think it's more productive to have...
[34:59.160 --> 35:02.300] [SPEAKER_20]: Is that really the only way to attack this?
[35:02.300 --> 35:04.140] [SPEAKER_23]: No, I think it's the least productive, but I'm not opposed to it.
[35:04.140 --> 35:05.260] [SPEAKER_20]: I think it's the most harmful.
[35:05.260 --> 35:07.660] [SPEAKER_20]: I think it just makes the side look really bad.
[35:07.780 --> 35:09.840] [SPEAKER_21]: And it demonizes hackers.
[35:10.100 --> 35:13.020] [SPEAKER_21]: Not only does it make people look bad, it's fighting fire with fire.
[35:13.500 --> 35:20.680] [SPEAKER_21]: You know, instead people should actually be following order, doing, you know, a proper conduct with how you act.
[35:20.680 --> 35:26.500] [SPEAKER_21]: You know, we shouldn't see, you know, government officials trying to change laws, just as we shouldn't see people acting like thugs.
[35:26.680 --> 35:34.440] [SPEAKER_21]: You know, if we're going to criticize one side for disregarding the rules that should be in place, we shouldn't do the same thing.
[35:35.020 --> 35:36.040] [SPEAKER_20]: Take the high road.
[35:36.740 --> 35:37.440] [SPEAKER_20]: Hey, Manuel.
[35:37.560 --> 35:38.180] [SPEAKER_20]: Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[35:38.460 --> 35:41.140] [SPEAKER_06]: I just want to say, we recently aired that whole...
[35:41.680 --> 35:49.660] [SPEAKER_06]: that tirade, that all shut up thing, about, you know, you should just shut up instead of speaking your liberal or progressive viewpoints.
[35:50.480 --> 35:53.760] [SPEAKER_06]: I equate denial of service accounts...
[35:53.760 --> 35:59.760] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry, I equate denial of service attacks on that whole mindset, which is, shut up.
[35:59.900 --> 36:02.440] [SPEAKER_06]: You're shutting up a source of information.
[36:02.440 --> 36:06.700] [SPEAKER_06]: And I totally agree with Rob, who said that the answer...
[36:06.700 --> 36:13.700] [SPEAKER_06]: and that that really amounts to censorship, that the answer to information you don't like is better speech.
[36:13.700 --> 36:27.140] [SPEAKER_06]: Not shutting someone else up, but publishing information that is more relevant and more interesting and more amenable to your... you know, that makes your point better than anything else.
[36:27.320 --> 36:33.220] [SPEAKER_20]: And now's the time we want to give to our listeners to make their points and ask their questions.
[36:34.040 --> 36:38.780] [SPEAKER_20]: Here's actually a letter from one of our listeners on our email address, oth@2600.com.
[36:39.100 --> 36:47.120] [SPEAKER_20]: Dear Off The Hook, everyone is talking about the significance of the 250,000 diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks, but what is this cables business?
[36:47.300 --> 36:49.140] [SPEAKER_20]: I thought the telegraph was long dead.
[36:49.460 --> 36:53.360] [SPEAKER_20]: It makes it sound as though the embassies are still tapping out Morse code to communicate with one another.
[36:53.700 --> 36:56.120] [SPEAKER_20]: Surely our embassies are using modern telecommunications.
[36:56.300 --> 36:58.060] [SPEAKER_20]: So why is it called a cable?
[36:58.340 --> 37:00.820] [SPEAKER_20]: Are diplomatic cables just specially formatted emails?
[37:01.060 --> 37:04.180] [SPEAKER_20]: What communications media are so-called cables being transmitted over?
[37:04.180 --> 37:04.620] [SPEAKER_20]: Are radio?
[37:05.080 --> 37:05.520] [SPEAKER_20]: Landline?
[37:05.740 --> 37:08.800] [SPEAKER_20]: I would really like to know what a cable actually means.
[37:09.240 --> 37:14.040] [SPEAKER_20]: Strangely, with all the attention WikiLeaks is getting right now, I haven't heard anyone ask what these cables are all about.
[37:14.160 --> 37:15.200] [SPEAKER_20]: Signed, Michael from Oakland.
[37:15.400 --> 37:16.480] [SPEAKER_20]: Bernie, any idea?
[37:16.900 --> 37:21.680] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I don't know exactly, but it's probably some secure encrypted network.
[37:22.360 --> 37:28.540] [SPEAKER_06]: There is this CIPR net, C-I-P-R net, which is a secure network that the U.S.
[37:28.660 --> 37:30.680] [SPEAKER_06]: government operates throughout different agencies.
[37:30.900 --> 37:31.260] [SPEAKER_06]: SIPR, right?
[37:31.920 --> 37:34.000] [SPEAKER_06]: SIPR, sorry, not SIPR net.
[37:35.240 --> 37:36.000] [SPEAKER_06]: SIPR net.
[37:36.600 --> 37:46.280] [SPEAKER_06]: And that's the network that, what, something like 3 million people had access to where these leaked documents were downloaded from.
[37:46.280 --> 37:48.440] [SPEAKER_06]: So I assume that that's...
[37:48.440 --> 37:53.500] [SPEAKER_06]: It's sort of a closed email system over a closed network like that.
[37:53.500 --> 37:53.860] [SPEAKER_06]: You're kidding, right?
[37:54.460 --> 37:56.760] [SPEAKER_20]: It's the most open email system in the world right now.
[37:56.760 --> 37:57.660] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, really, apparently.
[37:58.500 --> 38:11.820] [SPEAKER_24]: What I find interesting is if at the bottom of almost every one of these cables that has been released is an invitation to the reader to go onto the SIPR net and learn more about the region in question, but I can't click the links.
[38:11.940 --> 38:12.480] [SPEAKER_24]: They don't work for me.
[38:12.900 --> 38:16.160] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, there have been all kinds of ideas being floated around.
[38:16.160 --> 38:24.060] [SPEAKER_20]: I know there's some talk here at the radio station of having an open reading of some of the documents, some of the cables, having listeners come in and do some dramatic...
[38:24.060 --> 38:25.240] [SPEAKER_20]: I think that's really awesome.
[38:25.380 --> 38:28.560] [SPEAKER_20]: A great idea that I've heard from the arts department here.
[38:29.480 --> 38:33.540] [SPEAKER_20]: And another idea is standing on street corners, handing them out, just handing them out to people.
[38:33.660 --> 38:34.300] [SPEAKER_20]: I agree with that.
[38:34.300 --> 38:35.200] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, wouldn't that be something?
[38:35.340 --> 38:36.500] [SPEAKER_20]: Here, WikiLeaks, WikiLeaks.
[38:36.640 --> 38:36.980] [SPEAKER_20]: Have some WikiLeaks.
[38:37.000 --> 38:38.580] [SPEAKER_21]: We were just talking about constructive things people could do.
[38:38.720 --> 38:38.900] [SPEAKER_21]: Uh-huh.
[38:39.140 --> 38:40.300] [SPEAKER_21]: Like I was saying, get out on the street.
[38:40.380 --> 38:40.700] [SPEAKER_21]: There you go.
[38:40.780 --> 38:41.020] [SPEAKER_21]: Get out on the street.
[38:41.160 --> 38:42.120] [SPEAKER_21]: Hand out these things.
[38:42.700 --> 38:43.060] [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[38:43.540 --> 38:46.620] [SPEAKER_20]: But it's an interesting question why it's called a cable.
[38:46.760 --> 38:47.240] [SPEAKER_20]: But you know what?
[38:47.240 --> 38:48.120] [SPEAKER_20]: I have an interesting question.
[38:48.300 --> 38:49.620] [SPEAKER_20]: Why is it called WikiLeaks?
[38:50.220 --> 38:51.960] [SPEAKER_21]: Because it started out more Wiki-ish.
[38:52.060 --> 39:04.000] [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, because a Wiki is defined by Wikipedia, and they should know, as a website that allows the easy creation and editing of any number of interlinked web pages via a web browser using a simplified markup language.
[39:04.800 --> 39:07.480] [SPEAKER_20]: And, of course, with WikiLeaks, you can't really change anything.
[39:07.560 --> 39:08.780] [SPEAKER_20]: But do you say it started that way?
[39:08.940 --> 39:17.760] [SPEAKER_21]: In memory serves, it started that way, but just security and all sorts of technical reasons, they shifted away from that.
[39:17.920 --> 39:18.040] [SPEAKER_25]: Okay.
[39:18.220 --> 39:22.900] [SPEAKER_25]: Well, I think it has more to do with the fact that anybody can participate anonymously by submitting something.
[39:23.040 --> 39:23.880] [SPEAKER_25]: Therefore, you can contribute.
[39:24.360 --> 39:26.720] [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, that's your way of editing, by submitting.
[39:26.980 --> 39:27.880] [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, I see that.
[39:28.260 --> 39:29.100] [SPEAKER_20]: That could work, Mike.
[39:29.100 --> 39:33.440] [SPEAKER_24]: Their website used to be a Wiki, and not anyone could edit it.
[39:33.540 --> 39:36.360] [SPEAKER_24]: Only the WikiLeaks editors could edit it, but it was a Wiki.
[39:36.720 --> 39:40.040] [SPEAKER_20]: So the name has carried over, just like the name Cable has carried over.
[39:40.120 --> 39:40.860] [SPEAKER_20]: Something like that.
[39:40.920 --> 39:41.340] [SPEAKER_20]: Fascinating.
[39:41.520 --> 39:41.800] [SPEAKER_20]: Fascinating.
[39:41.940 --> 39:46.400] [SPEAKER_24]: I have an idea, and I don't want to suggest anyone implement it because you might get in trouble.
[39:46.460 --> 39:47.760] [SPEAKER_24]: No, theoretical discussions here.
[39:47.760 --> 39:51.760] [SPEAKER_24]: But I wonder what would happen if someone in Washington, D.C.
[39:51.940 --> 39:59.700] [SPEAKER_24]: went to somewhere, some public property near the State Department, and started posting these cables, like taping them onto lampposts or something.
[39:59.720 --> 40:00.460] [SPEAKER_24]: Lampposts, lampposts.
[40:00.500 --> 40:00.760] [SPEAKER_24]: Yeah, yeah.
[40:01.120 --> 40:05.140] [SPEAKER_24]: Because the State Department has let its employees know they may not read these cables.
[40:05.580 --> 40:08.400] [SPEAKER_24]: So would they all get fired or something when they leave the building?
[40:08.400 --> 40:08.560] [SPEAKER_24]: And that's another thing.
[40:08.560 --> 40:09.000] [SPEAKER_20]: That's another thing.
[40:09.060 --> 40:16.000] [SPEAKER_20]: The State Department, which is the source of many of these cables, they're not allowed to read what's in the New York Times that the whole world is able to know now.
[40:16.000 --> 40:17.040] [SPEAKER_24]: They're the source of all these cables.
[40:17.220 --> 40:18.540] [SPEAKER_24]: It's a collection of state departments.
[40:18.680 --> 40:19.300] [SPEAKER_24]: Is it every single one of them?
[40:19.420 --> 40:26.200] [SPEAKER_24]: Well, it's the State Department in Washington and communicates with the embassies overseas, and they go in both directions.
[40:26.660 --> 40:26.920] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[40:27.120 --> 40:28.060] [SPEAKER_20]: So, you know what?
[40:28.060 --> 40:30.140] [SPEAKER_20]: It's not classified anymore if it's been leaked.
[40:30.260 --> 40:31.140] [SPEAKER_20]: It's public then.
[40:31.400 --> 40:31.660] [SPEAKER_20]: You know?
[40:31.720 --> 40:32.480] [SPEAKER_20]: It totally is.
[40:32.700 --> 40:37.260] [SPEAKER_25]: That almost sounds like they can't read it if they're actually authorized in the office.
[40:37.420 --> 40:39.140] [SPEAKER_25]: It's like, okay, you can't read this file anymore.
[40:39.580 --> 40:39.940] [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah.
[40:40.080 --> 40:41.020] [SPEAKER_25]: Even though you have authorization.
[40:41.420 --> 40:42.480] [SPEAKER_23]: Well, Terry, I'm going to take some phone calls.
[40:42.480 --> 40:50.320] [SPEAKER_23]: Talking about constructive points of protest, for people in New York, tomorrow at 6.30 p.m.
[40:50.500 --> 40:52.640] [SPEAKER_23]: at the New York Times building, there's going to be a protest.
[40:52.980 --> 40:53.120] [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[40:53.120 --> 40:55.360] [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know why there, but then there...
[40:55.360 --> 40:58.360] [SPEAKER_20]: Is there a protest to get the New York Times prosecuted or to...
[40:58.640 --> 40:59.960] [SPEAKER_23]: To support WikiLeaks.
[41:00.060 --> 41:00.700] [SPEAKER_20]: To support WikiLeaks.
[41:00.700 --> 41:00.920] [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[41:00.920 --> 41:06.420] [SPEAKER_23]: And there are going to be protests throughout the world tomorrow evening, and you can find out more about at...
[41:06.420 --> 41:08.900] [SPEAKER_23]: See, I still don't get why the New York Times.
[41:08.900 --> 41:12.440] [SPEAKER_20]: There are so many other people attacking WikiLeaks a lot more than they've been...
[41:12.440 --> 41:13.100] [SPEAKER_23]: No, they're not...
[41:13.100 --> 41:16.040] [SPEAKER_23]: I don't think they protest towards the New York Times.
[41:16.060 --> 41:16.340] [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, okay.
[41:16.340 --> 41:17.620] [SPEAKER_23]: It's just a place to gather.
[41:17.820 --> 41:18.100] [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[41:18.160 --> 41:21.400] [SPEAKER_23]: And there are protests throughout the world in your local city.
[41:21.520 --> 41:24.200] [SPEAKER_23]: So go to wlcentral.org.
[41:24.920 --> 41:25.640] [SPEAKER_23]: wlcentral.org.
[41:25.780 --> 41:25.960] [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[41:25.960 --> 41:26.040] [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[41:26.340 --> 41:26.700] [SPEAKER_23]: That's cool.
[41:27.020 --> 41:28.520] [SPEAKER_23]: The unofficial, official WikiLeaks.
[41:28.520 --> 41:33.940] [SPEAKER_20]: We have a full switchboard, and I'd like to get as many calls in as possible because I know our listeners have a whole lot to say on this issue.
[41:33.940 --> 41:36.900] [SPEAKER_20]: And please don't feel compelled to agree with us.
[41:37.480 --> 41:38.320] [SPEAKER_20]: Raise issues.
[41:38.620 --> 41:40.160] [SPEAKER_20]: Let's have an interesting discussion here.
[41:40.240 --> 41:40.500] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[41:40.660 --> 41:41.520] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on Off The Hook.
[41:42.100 --> 41:42.480] [SPEAKER_15]: Hello.
[41:42.760 --> 41:42.960] [SPEAKER_20]: Hi.
[41:43.700 --> 41:44.940] [SPEAKER_15]: I have four quick points.
[41:45.020 --> 41:45.940] [SPEAKER_15]: I hope I remember them all.
[41:46.120 --> 41:46.440] [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[41:47.180 --> 41:55.860] [SPEAKER_15]: On the topic of not being able to access information that originated inside your department, there's a story about someone having published a book on the CIA.
[41:55.860 --> 42:05.700] [SPEAKER_15]: And the fact that CIA employees were some of the most prolific buyers of this book because they didn't know anything about it either.
[42:07.160 --> 42:07.720] [SPEAKER_20]: Interesting.
[42:08.520 --> 42:16.240] [SPEAKER_15]: But the second point is why not burn it to a DVD and find some gray market DVD distributor?
[42:16.520 --> 42:19.420] [SPEAKER_15]: Would you like to see diplomatic cables being sold on blankets?
[42:20.720 --> 42:21.280] [SPEAKER_15]: Outside?
[42:21.580 --> 42:21.980] [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[42:21.980 --> 42:22.260] [SPEAKER_15]: Good idea.
[42:23.690 --> 42:25.220] [SPEAKER_15]: The third is...
[42:25.220 --> 42:27.180] [SPEAKER_15]: Well, wrap the third and the fourth together.
[42:27.480 --> 42:27.640] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[42:28.580 --> 42:49.500] [SPEAKER_15]: You know, aside from the insurance file that people haven't really been talking about, is it possible for WikiLeaks to say, hey, here's some unredacted cable as opposed to relying on the poison pill encrypted file for leverage?
[42:50.220 --> 42:51.580] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm not sure what you're saying.
[42:51.760 --> 42:56.780] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, to not have the encrypted files, to simply give it to people.
[42:57.160 --> 42:59.300] [SPEAKER_15]: Ignore the existence of the encrypted file.
[42:59.480 --> 43:03.720] [SPEAKER_15]: Other leverage would be to start releasing unredacted...
[43:03.720 --> 43:08.000] [SPEAKER_20]: But you see, the encrypted file is brilliant because you don't know what's in it.
[43:08.140 --> 43:08.380] [SPEAKER_20]: I agree.
[43:08.560 --> 43:09.700] [SPEAKER_20]: It's this mystery.
[43:09.700 --> 43:10.280] [SPEAKER_20]: It's an enigma.
[43:10.280 --> 43:12.720] [SPEAKER_20]: You don't know what's actually going to come out of it.
[43:13.240 --> 43:21.880] [SPEAKER_15]: But if WikiLeaks is, heaven forbid, shut down somehow, that file will be the epitaph on the tombstone.
[43:22.020 --> 43:22.920] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, yeah, of course.
[43:23.140 --> 43:27.700] [SPEAKER_20]: And my only worry is that there should be so many more organizations like WikiLeaks out there.
[43:27.820 --> 43:29.240] [SPEAKER_20]: It shouldn't just be one person.
[43:29.240 --> 43:29.720] [SPEAKER_20]: And it's not.
[43:29.800 --> 43:30.960] [SPEAKER_20]: It shouldn't just be one organization.
[43:30.960 --> 43:35.640] [SPEAKER_20]: There should be a whole lot of organizations designed to spreading information that gets leaked.
[43:35.640 --> 43:37.840] [SPEAKER_20]: And you have to wonder, why is the information being leaked in the first place?
[43:37.980 --> 43:42.600] [SPEAKER_20]: People inside organizations believe that others have the right to know this kind of thing.
[43:42.840 --> 43:44.620] [SPEAKER_20]: Interesting thing about the encryption file, though.
[43:44.960 --> 43:45.640] [SPEAKER_20]: Think about it.
[43:45.740 --> 43:56.720] [SPEAKER_20]: If the State Department had used that kind of protection in the first place that Julian Assange or WikiLeaks has used to make this file, they wouldn't have had this whole issue in the first place.
[43:56.720 --> 43:59.980] [SPEAKER_20]: You know, it would have been maybe a pointer for them.
[44:00.200 --> 44:00.980] [SPEAKER_24]: Well, it's not quite right.
[44:00.980 --> 44:05.880] [SPEAKER_24]: They use encryption in transit, but the data has to get decrypted at some point or no one will be able to...
[44:05.880 --> 44:06.400] [SPEAKER_24]: To millions of people?
[44:06.560 --> 44:06.940] [SPEAKER_24]: Really?
[44:07.160 --> 44:08.680] [SPEAKER_24]: The mistake is that they gave three million people access.
[44:08.680 --> 44:09.260] [SPEAKER_24]: That's my point.
[44:09.400 --> 44:13.480] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, you basically give people what they need to have access to and you keep the rest encrypted.
[44:13.520 --> 44:17.840] [SPEAKER_24]: I'm not convinced, though, that I wish to encourage the government to restrict access to things.
[44:18.020 --> 44:23.840] [SPEAKER_20]: You know, I'm not going to insert my ideology into this, but I know that governments like to keep secrets.
[44:23.840 --> 44:28.220] [SPEAKER_20]: If they really are intent on doing that, they should do it right and not blame the messenger.
[44:28.760 --> 44:29.020] [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[44:29.080 --> 44:29.860] [SPEAKER_20]: Thanks for that call.
[44:29.980 --> 44:30.680] [SPEAKER_20]: Let's take another one.
[44:31.180 --> 44:31.520] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[44:35.340 --> 44:35.680] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[44:36.060 --> 44:36.280] [SPEAKER_20]: Hi.
[44:36.340 --> 44:36.740] [SPEAKER_20]: What's on your mind?
[44:39.720 --> 44:40.060] Um...
[44:40.060 --> 44:40.660] [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[44:40.780 --> 44:41.140] [SPEAKER_20]: You know what?
[44:41.460 --> 44:42.960] [SPEAKER_20]: You got to have a point ready to go.
[44:43.080 --> 44:43.340] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[44:43.460 --> 44:44.180] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on off the hook.
[44:45.120 --> 44:45.460] [SPEAKER_07]: Hi.
[44:46.120 --> 44:50.040] [SPEAKER_07]: My name's Albert and I like the show.
[44:50.040 --> 44:56.020] [SPEAKER_07]: Listen, what I think is that the hypocrisy, the hypocrisy of the U.S.
[44:56.100 --> 45:09.440] [SPEAKER_07]: government, the exposure of these documents is righteous and the true patriot is the WikiLeaks organization.
[45:09.940 --> 45:11.460] [SPEAKER_07]: Those are the patriots.
[45:11.680 --> 45:18.700] [SPEAKER_07]: Those are the people who are getting bombed now by a government whose mask has been torn off their face.
[45:19.740 --> 45:20.100] [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[45:20.720 --> 45:21.520] [SPEAKER_20]: Thanks for your opinion.
[45:22.060 --> 45:22.300] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[45:22.480 --> 45:22.700] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[45:22.860 --> 45:23.100] [SPEAKER_07]: Cool.
[45:23.800 --> 45:24.140] [SPEAKER_20]: Good night.
[45:24.640 --> 45:25.320] [SPEAKER_20]: And good evening.
[45:25.440 --> 45:25.880] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on off the hook.
[45:26.380 --> 45:27.140] [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks for your opinion.
[45:27.720 --> 45:27.900] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[45:28.120 --> 45:28.380] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[45:28.520 --> 45:28.760] [SPEAKER_09]: Cool.
[45:29.120 --> 45:29.400] [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[45:29.460 --> 45:29.680] [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[45:29.800 --> 45:30.180] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[45:30.380 --> 45:31.080] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on off the hook.
[45:32.820 --> 45:33.360] [SPEAKER_20]: Speak up.
[45:33.480 --> 45:33.580] [SPEAKER_20]: Hello?
[45:33.800 --> 45:33.980] [SPEAKER_20]: Yes.
[45:34.160 --> 45:34.820] [SPEAKER_20]: Please speak up.
[45:35.700 --> 45:35.980] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[45:36.460 --> 45:36.820] [SPEAKER_08]: Hi.
[45:36.940 --> 45:38.120] [SPEAKER_08]: This is Sidepocket.
[45:38.720 --> 45:43.760] [SPEAKER_08]: I tuned in late to the show, so I don't know if you guys were talking about WikiLeaks all day like you were last episode.
[45:43.800 --> 45:44.320] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, we were.
[45:44.400 --> 45:44.640] [SPEAKER_20]: We were.
[45:44.800 --> 45:45.140] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[45:45.220 --> 45:45.820] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on off the hook.
[45:47.180 --> 45:47.500] [SPEAKER_20]: Really?
[45:47.580 --> 45:48.600] [SPEAKER_20]: People, you've got to listen to the radio show.
[45:48.660 --> 45:48.940] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[45:49.100 --> 45:49.620] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on off the hook.
[45:50.100 --> 45:50.420] [SPEAKER_10]: Hi.
[45:51.700 --> 45:52.880] [SPEAKER_10]: I'd like to know, like...
[45:53.220 --> 45:53.740] [SPEAKER_10]: What is it?
[45:54.060 --> 45:57.080] [SPEAKER_10]: WikiLeaks.2600.org or .com?
[45:57.180 --> 45:57.920] [SPEAKER_20]: That should work too.
[45:58.020 --> 46:00.060] [SPEAKER_20]: WikiLeaks.2600.com.org.
[46:00.320 --> 46:00.420] [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[46:01.300 --> 46:03.560] [SPEAKER_20]: WikiLeaks.org no longer works, I don't believe.
[46:03.680 --> 46:04.060] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[46:04.060 --> 46:09.720] [SPEAKER_10]: But I'm just wondering, like, is there a central location to find out, like...
[46:09.720 --> 46:23.960] [SPEAKER_10]: What I'm thinking about, it's like, you're down on the idea of throwing massive denial of service stuff at these companies, but they certainly are worth a boycott.
[46:24.100 --> 46:24.800] [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[46:24.800 --> 46:25.260] [SPEAKER_20]: Absolutely.
[46:25.620 --> 46:28.560] [SPEAKER_10]: But you can only do that if you know who the hell they are.
[46:28.560 --> 46:31.760] [SPEAKER_10]: And I don't know, like, Visa, MasterCard, and PayPal.
[46:31.880 --> 46:34.160] [SPEAKER_10]: Those are the only names I know right off the top of my head.
[46:34.520 --> 46:42.620] [SPEAKER_10]: So I'm just wondering, like, is there any place where, like, maybe WL Central, where I can get a current list as it evolves?
[46:42.720 --> 46:44.200] [SPEAKER_10]: Because it has to be evolving all the time.
[46:44.340 --> 46:45.160] [SPEAKER_23]: Walter, you have an answer to this?
[46:45.180 --> 46:49.720] [SPEAKER_23]: The Guardian has an updating article about everybody that's been a douchebag to WikiLeaks.
[46:49.920 --> 46:53.120] [SPEAKER_23]: And WL Central probably links to that.
[46:53.200 --> 46:55.500] [SPEAKER_23]: I think it's, like, a list of people that have attacked WikiLeaks.
[46:55.520 --> 46:56.160] [SPEAKER_23]: Something like that.
[46:56.160 --> 46:56.380] [SPEAKER_22]: Rob?
[46:57.060 --> 47:00.820] [SPEAKER_22]: I also wanted to mention that the boycotts are happening, and they do have an effect.
[47:01.040 --> 47:05.620] [SPEAKER_22]: A good friend of mine recently canceled her PayPal account, I think it was, because of this.
[47:05.760 --> 47:07.320] [SPEAKER_22]: And she couldn't use the automated system to do it.
[47:07.380 --> 47:07.620] [SPEAKER_22]: It crashed.
[47:07.760 --> 47:12.900] [SPEAKER_22]: So she called in and got an operator and basically told that there are so many people doing it that they have to keep a list.
[47:13.260 --> 47:13.620] [SPEAKER_22]: Wow.
[47:13.900 --> 47:14.720] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you know, I'll tell you.
[47:15.000 --> 47:18.440] [SPEAKER_10]: Like, companies are really sensitive to that kind of stuff.
[47:18.620 --> 47:20.140] [SPEAKER_10]: They really hate losing business.
[47:20.540 --> 47:23.520] [SPEAKER_10]: I'll hang up and I will listen to the rest of this very interesting show.
[47:23.640 --> 47:23.740] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay?
[47:24.160 --> 47:25.720] [SPEAKER_20]: We're going to take as many phone calls as possible.
[47:25.900 --> 47:26.640] [SPEAKER_20]: Let's grab another one.
[47:26.720 --> 47:26.840] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[47:26.960 --> 47:27.420] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on off the hook.
[47:27.860 --> 47:28.400] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, hello.
[47:28.640 --> 47:28.780] [SPEAKER_01]: Hi.
[47:29.120 --> 47:30.220] [SPEAKER_01]: Tom from the Bronx here.
[47:30.220 --> 47:30.520] [SPEAKER_01]: How are you doing?
[47:31.120 --> 47:36.220] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to say that WikiLeaks, in other words, and the U.S.
[47:36.340 --> 47:37.100] [SPEAKER_01]: government, the U.S.
[47:37.220 --> 47:42.760] [SPEAKER_01]: government should only have a computer system that's geared for them.
[47:42.760 --> 47:48.600] [SPEAKER_01]: If they want to keep everybody else out, nobody else could get into their system.
[47:48.760 --> 47:50.600] [SPEAKER_01]: It should be a special system.
[47:51.440 --> 47:56.540] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, WikiLeaks is doing a good service in a way.
[47:56.540 --> 48:08.060] [SPEAKER_01]: And what it is is more embarrassing to all the governments in the world that are involved in this story than, in other words, it's not exactly letting so much secrets out.
[48:08.060 --> 48:11.820] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just giving them a lot of embarrassment to me.
[48:11.820 --> 48:12.260] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[48:12.420 --> 48:19.820] [SPEAKER_01]: And one thing about this guy here, who is in charge of WikiLeaks, he's in England.
[48:20.120 --> 48:20.300] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[48:20.800 --> 48:28.220] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's hope they don't pull a ruby on him, where they either poison him in jail, or he gets shot by somebody.
[48:28.740 --> 48:29.740] [SPEAKER_01]: I really...
[48:29.740 --> 48:35.400] [SPEAKER_01]: Because if they're that paranoid, they're liable to take that route, and I hope that doesn't happen.
[48:35.420 --> 48:38.200] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, let's keep Sarah Palin and Peter King away from him, and hopefully he'll be safe.
[48:38.540 --> 48:38.880] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[48:39.000 --> 48:39.560] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on off the hook.
[48:40.840 --> 48:41.520] [SPEAKER_20]: Speak up.
[48:41.520 --> 48:43.040] [SPEAKER_16]: Hey, how's it going?
[48:43.220 --> 48:43.360] [SPEAKER_16]: Hi.
[48:43.520 --> 48:43.940] [SPEAKER_16]: John, you mind?
[48:44.060 --> 48:45.920] [SPEAKER_16]: I'm pretty computer literate.
[48:46.060 --> 48:47.540] [SPEAKER_16]: I've been listening to you guys for years.
[48:47.540 --> 48:49.440] [SPEAKER_16]: I love your show.
[48:49.740 --> 48:49.940] [SPEAKER_20]: Thanks.
[48:49.980 --> 48:51.920] [SPEAKER_16]: There are two things I want to say.
[48:52.120 --> 49:01.520] [SPEAKER_16]: One, this is a case of all this secrecy kind of will eventually expose the dirt on everybody because they're snooping on everyone.
[49:01.800 --> 49:03.300] [SPEAKER_16]: That's a very indirect thing.
[49:03.460 --> 49:14.160] [SPEAKER_16]: And the other one is I can't wait till they start releasing some information about the dirty wars in Central America because there seems to be a lot of rewriting of history.
[49:14.400 --> 49:21.260] [SPEAKER_16]: And I think it's really timely to let some of the myths about Reagan and past presidents come out.
[49:21.700 --> 49:22.200] [SPEAKER_20]: Absolutely.
[49:22.200 --> 49:35.100] [SPEAKER_20]: And if just one war crime is uncovered as a result of all of this, is that not worth all the embarrassment and all the ruined relationships between diplomats.
[49:35.400 --> 49:36.440] [SPEAKER_20]: We need to know the truth.
[49:36.580 --> 49:36.720] [SPEAKER_20]: Mike.
[49:36.940 --> 49:39.360] [SPEAKER_24]: You're making the assumption that anyone in the U.S.
[49:39.380 --> 49:42.420] [SPEAKER_24]: will ever be prosecuted for war crime and there's not a whole lot of evidence for that.
[49:42.420 --> 49:47.000] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, don't you think we should at least try to find out the truth before we assume that it's not going to go anywhere?
[49:47.000 --> 49:48.380] [SPEAKER_24]: I mean, I love more truth.
[49:48.520 --> 49:51.180] [SPEAKER_24]: More truth is always better, but there are certainly war crimes that the U.S.
[49:51.180 --> 49:55.600] [SPEAKER_24]: has committed that are already known about in the public domain and for which no one's been prosecuted.
[49:55.700 --> 49:56.600] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, we can't go back in time.
[49:56.720 --> 49:57.540] [SPEAKER_20]: This is moving forward.
[49:57.960 --> 49:59.640] [SPEAKER_24]: I'm talking about recent history.
[49:59.860 --> 50:00.140] [SPEAKER_24]: All right.
[50:00.300 --> 50:00.620] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[50:00.740 --> 50:01.220] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on off the hook.
[50:02.320 --> 50:02.780] [SPEAKER_20]: Speak up.
[50:03.340 --> 50:03.820] [SPEAKER_24]: Oh, dear.
[50:04.420 --> 50:04.680] [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[50:04.740 --> 50:05.020] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[50:05.080 --> 50:05.660] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on off the hook.
[50:07.240 --> 50:07.800] [SPEAKER_20]: Speak up.
[50:08.660 --> 50:08.980] [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[50:09.040 --> 50:09.600] [SPEAKER_20]: You got to move faster.
[50:09.640 --> 50:09.920] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[50:10.040 --> 50:10.560] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on off the hook.
[50:11.320 --> 50:11.960] [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, yeah.
[50:12.840 --> 50:19.320] [SPEAKER_11]: This government and a lot of others, they're busy spying on everybody, reading their emails, listening to their cell phones.
[50:19.500 --> 50:23.440] [SPEAKER_11]: They're probably listening to this when they could just tune into the radio.
[50:23.640 --> 50:28.100] [SPEAKER_11]: Is it possible for you to play Just Give Me Some Truth by John Lennon as you sign off?
[50:28.980 --> 50:33.820] [SPEAKER_20]: I don't have it with me, but it's a great song and it's very appropriate for both the day and the occasion.
[50:33.960 --> 50:36.280] [SPEAKER_20]: And I will certainly be thinking of the lyrics.
[50:36.760 --> 50:37.740] [SPEAKER_20]: Thanks for that suggestion.
[50:38.280 --> 50:38.540] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[50:38.680 --> 50:39.200] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on off the hook.
[50:40.780 --> 50:41.540] [SPEAKER_20]: Speak up.
[50:42.360 --> 50:43.040] [SPEAKER_17]: Hey, sorry.
[50:43.520 --> 50:47.200] [SPEAKER_17]: Wondering if there was a alternative place to make donations.
[50:47.800 --> 50:48.840] [SPEAKER_20]: To WikiLeaks.
[50:48.940 --> 50:49.560] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, I think...
[50:49.560 --> 50:50.920] [SPEAKER_20]: What do they have on their website now?
[50:51.040 --> 50:52.580] [SPEAKER_20]: They have some other...
[50:52.580 --> 50:53.320] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, they have...
[50:54.080 --> 51:01.400] [SPEAKER_24]: They are bank account information, but unfortunately for Americans, it's expensive and time-consuming to make international wire transfers.
[51:01.640 --> 51:03.940] [SPEAKER_24]: So hopefully more options will become available.
[51:04.000 --> 51:05.700] [SPEAKER_20]: What could somebody in the United States do?
[51:05.700 --> 51:10.440] [SPEAKER_20]: Somebody who has some kind of resource, access to some kind of online payment system.
[51:10.640 --> 51:20.600] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, if you simply took your PayPal account and took donations for WikiLeaks and were trusted enough to actually get it to them, would they just not shut you down like they did the Val Holland Foundation?
[51:20.600 --> 51:21.880] [SPEAKER_24]: It's an interesting question.
[51:22.020 --> 51:23.180] [SPEAKER_24]: I mean, if you had...
[51:23.180 --> 51:27.560] [SPEAKER_24]: It costs, at least with most banks, around $30 to make an international wire transfer.
[51:27.700 --> 51:35.040] [SPEAKER_24]: So if you have aggregated donations of substantially more than that, you could transfer money to the Val Holland Foundation.
[51:35.040 --> 51:37.040] [SPEAKER_24]: And I don't know how they could stop you.
[51:37.200 --> 51:41.160] [SPEAKER_23]: There's an indirect way to use PayPal to pay WikiLeaks, which is actually what I did.
[51:41.340 --> 51:46.420] [SPEAKER_23]: There's a service called Flatter, F-L-A-T-T-R, which is like a micropayment website.
[51:46.620 --> 51:53.200] [SPEAKER_23]: But it lets you set up with your PayPal account or your credit cards and, I guess, Visa and MasterCard.
[51:53.200 --> 51:54.460] [SPEAKER_20]: Does it work with WikiLeaks?
[51:54.580 --> 51:55.080] [SPEAKER_23]: Yes, it does.
[51:55.280 --> 51:56.240] [SPEAKER_20]: Flatter.com.
[51:56.360 --> 51:56.640] [SPEAKER_20]: Yes.
[51:56.740 --> 51:58.400] [SPEAKER_20]: F-L-A-T-T-R.com.
[51:58.520 --> 51:58.660] [SPEAKER_20]: Yep.
[51:58.900 --> 52:00.860] [SPEAKER_20]: And how do you make a donation to WikiLeaks through that?
[52:00.860 --> 52:09.440] [SPEAKER_23]: You just look up on the website, just search for WikiLeaks or Flatter.com slash WikiLeaks slash profile slash WikiLeaks or something.
[52:09.660 --> 52:10.700] [SPEAKER_20]: We'll check into that.
[52:10.960 --> 52:12.600] [SPEAKER_20]: Let's take another phone call.
[52:12.780 --> 52:13.220] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[52:13.520 --> 52:14.480] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on off the hook.
[52:15.520 --> 52:16.660] [SPEAKER_08]: Hi, is this off the hook?
[52:16.960 --> 52:17.340] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[52:18.000 --> 52:18.280] [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[52:18.460 --> 52:18.600] [SPEAKER_08]: Cool.
[52:19.420 --> 52:20.640] [SPEAKER_08]: I think I cut up before.
[52:20.800 --> 52:38.800] [SPEAKER_08]: I just wanted to say my support for WikiLeaks again, and that the fear that Joe Lieberman is apparently doing some sort of trying to redo the Espionage Act law, because if we manage to get Julian Estran extradited here, like the United States is hoping for,
[52:39.200 --> 52:42.320] [SPEAKER_08]: that the Espionage Act is apparently not strong enough to convict him.
[52:42.680 --> 52:55.560] [SPEAKER_08]: So Joe Lieberman and a bunch of senators want to redo that law, so basically any person who leaks information, as well as any organization or person that publishes it, would be able to be tried and sentenced for, at minimum, a life sentence in jail.
[52:55.560 --> 52:55.940] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[52:56.220 --> 52:57.140] [SPEAKER_08]: That's a very scary feature.
[52:57.140 --> 53:05.200] [SPEAKER_20]: They're out of their minds, and they're panicking, and it's going to be fascinating to see what else they do when they realize they've totally lost control of the situation, as they never should have had in the first place.
[53:05.300 --> 53:05.620] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[53:05.820 --> 53:06.460] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on...
[53:06.460 --> 53:06.780] [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[53:06.840 --> 53:07.180] [SPEAKER_20]: I didn't hit the button.
[53:07.260 --> 53:07.500] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[53:07.580 --> 53:08.160] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on off the hook.
[53:09.360 --> 53:09.660] [SPEAKER_20]: Speak up.
[53:10.880 --> 53:11.160] Hi.
[53:11.440 --> 53:11.680] [SPEAKER_20]: Hi.
[53:11.680 --> 53:12.200] [SPEAKER_20]: What's on your mind?
[53:13.360 --> 53:26.260] [SPEAKER_18]: I think earlier today I heard someone say that, I think it was President, oh my God, Jefferson, that said if he had a choice between a government or a free press, he would go for the free press.
[53:26.400 --> 53:27.640] [SPEAKER_18]: I think that speaks volumes.
[53:27.980 --> 53:28.480] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, absolutely.
[53:28.760 --> 53:32.940] [SPEAKER_20]: And those guys back then, they understood quite a few things that we don't seem to know now.
[53:33.140 --> 53:33.540] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm sorry, what?
[53:33.640 --> 53:35.060] [SPEAKER_23]: They didn't understand slavery.
[53:35.500 --> 53:36.220] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, no.
[53:36.340 --> 53:37.500] [SPEAKER_20]: I said some things.
[53:37.680 --> 53:37.940] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm sorry.
[53:38.020 --> 53:38.520] [SPEAKER_20]: Go ahead.
[53:38.540 --> 53:38.960] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on the air.
[53:38.960 --> 53:40.120] [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, hello.
[53:40.300 --> 53:40.540] [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[53:40.780 --> 54:03.840] [SPEAKER_13]: Speaking of hypocrisy, I don't know if you recently saw the movie Fair Game with Sean Penn and Naomi Watts, and after seeing that movie, how Edith Palme was outed during the Bush-Cheney era, and there was barely a peep, and now everyone's outraged about WikiLeaks.
[54:03.840 --> 54:09.120] [SPEAKER_13]: Now, when Edith Palme was outed, people's lives really were at stake.
[54:09.120 --> 54:10.400] [SPEAKER_13]: People were endangered.
[54:10.400 --> 54:13.500] [SPEAKER_13]: And I wonder, why was there no outrage then?
[54:13.740 --> 54:14.840] [SPEAKER_13]: Why now?
[54:15.480 --> 54:18.260] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, hypocrisy definitely is a reason.
[54:20.220 --> 54:23.120] [SPEAKER_23]: Because she was outed by the people in power and it served them.
[54:24.120 --> 54:24.600] [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[54:24.900 --> 54:31.640] [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, it seems like during the Bush-Cheney era, you could get away with anything, and it was just the way it was.
[54:31.720 --> 54:35.140] [SPEAKER_13]: And now, once again, during the Obama era, there's outrage.
[54:35.440 --> 54:36.340] [SPEAKER_13]: Everybody's outraged.
[54:36.580 --> 54:41.000] [SPEAKER_13]: It seems like no matter what this guy does, he can't get any credit.
[54:41.460 --> 54:43.520] [SPEAKER_13]: He's always getting trashed.
[54:44.800 --> 54:49.080] [SPEAKER_26]: Well, also, there's, you know, the difference in that that was, you know, one thing.
[54:49.180 --> 54:51.880] [SPEAKER_26]: And here, you're talking about 250,000 things.
[54:52.020 --> 54:56.600] [SPEAKER_26]: And I don't know if they know which cables they all are.
[54:56.720 --> 54:59.380] [SPEAKER_26]: So, there's fear of the unknown, and what do they have?
[54:59.600 --> 55:09.260] [SPEAKER_26]: And so, at this point, you know, since it's not out there yet in its entirety, they're panicking and trying to figure out ways to keep that from happening.
[55:09.860 --> 55:15.140] [SPEAKER_26]: But I think, at this point, it's a lost cause, especially if the insurance file contains all the cables.
[55:15.220 --> 55:15.380] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[55:15.560 --> 55:16.900] [SPEAKER_20]: It's going to be pretty interesting.
[55:17.340 --> 55:17.420] [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[55:17.420 --> 55:19.100] [SPEAKER_20]: Let's take a couple more calls in the time we have left.
[55:19.120 --> 55:19.400] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[55:19.500 --> 55:20.180] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on off the hook.
[55:21.400 --> 55:22.020] [SPEAKER_14]: Hey, guys.
[55:22.120 --> 55:22.640] [SPEAKER_14]: How you doing?
[55:22.820 --> 55:23.020] [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[55:23.020 --> 55:23.560] [SPEAKER_20]: What's on your mind?
[55:23.960 --> 55:28.520] [SPEAKER_14]: My name is Brad Dose, and I'm a Berliner, and I'm a WikiLeaks.
[55:30.120 --> 55:30.780] [SPEAKER_20]: Good for you.
[55:30.960 --> 55:43.960] [SPEAKER_14]: But I don't want to write on your coattails, because I want to say, in constitutional limitations on criminal law, there's a quote by Bernoulli, the guy with the spray gun, Bernoulli's Law.
[55:45.580 --> 55:48.680] [SPEAKER_14]: Anyway, he has a lot of great science.
[55:48.880 --> 55:51.460] [SPEAKER_14]: But he said, you can tell the lion by its claw.
[55:51.620 --> 55:53.280] [SPEAKER_14]: So let's tell the lion by its claw.
[55:53.580 --> 56:08.840] [SPEAKER_14]: Let's see them follow this through, because in a just government, if they took this man to court, if the United States, specifically is what I mean, they took this man to court, I'm going to call him a man, because I don't see him guilty of anything until he's prosecuted.
[56:09.060 --> 56:15.160] [SPEAKER_14]: So all this other talk about rape and this, it's just divide and conquer.
[56:15.320 --> 56:16.580] [SPEAKER_14]: It's just COINTELPRO.
[56:16.580 --> 56:19.720] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, it's just a farce, because they don't like what he did.
[56:19.860 --> 56:26.620] [SPEAKER_14]: But if they took him to court, like they won't take a lot of things to court, like I ran Contra and 9-11 properly.
[56:26.800 --> 56:32.300] [SPEAKER_14]: If they took him to court, couldn't you raise a bunch of things that they've done that are on file?
[56:33.160 --> 56:33.560] [SPEAKER_14]: Theoretically.
[56:33.840 --> 56:36.700] [SPEAKER_14]: But are they going to do it in a respectable way?
[56:36.940 --> 56:41.060] [SPEAKER_14]: With people like Peter King, they're not going to do it in a respectable way.
[56:41.060 --> 56:41.860] [SPEAKER_20]: No, absolutely not.
[56:42.360 --> 56:46.760] [SPEAKER_20]: They'll change the laws to suit themselves and to get their desired effects.
[56:46.940 --> 56:47.640] [SPEAKER_20]: Thanks for the call.
[56:47.740 --> 56:49.600] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm going to try to take one more in the time we have left.
[56:49.980 --> 56:50.620] [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening.
[56:50.800 --> 56:51.560] [SPEAKER_20]: You're on Off The Hook.
[56:52.240 --> 56:53.020] Thanks for the call.
[56:53.220 --> 56:53.780] [SPEAKER_20]: Speak up.
[56:54.180 --> 56:54.700] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, hi.
[56:54.860 --> 57:01.060] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if you guys went through it already, but can you give us an idea how to read those torrent files?
[57:02.040 --> 57:03.580] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll just hang up and listen, okay?
[57:04.180 --> 57:04.580] [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[57:04.720 --> 57:05.620] [SPEAKER_20]: Which torrent files do you mean?
[57:05.940 --> 57:07.000] [SPEAKER_05]: Torrent from the WikiLeak.
[57:07.100 --> 57:07.500] [SPEAKER_05]: WikiLeak.
[57:07.500 --> 57:08.000] [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[57:08.200 --> 57:08.580] [SPEAKER_26]: Thank you.
[57:08.660 --> 57:09.680] [SPEAKER_26]: So there's a torrent...
[57:09.680 --> 57:10.500] [SPEAKER_26]: I don't remember the name of it.
[57:10.520 --> 57:11.180] [SPEAKER_26]: It's called insurance.
[57:11.180 --> 57:13.500] [SPEAKER_26]: You can probably find it on a number of torrent sites.
[57:13.500 --> 57:15.500] [SPEAKER_26]: It's like a one point something gigs.
[57:15.580 --> 57:16.860] [SPEAKER_26]: It's one point something gigs, but...
[57:16.860 --> 57:19.340] [SPEAKER_26]: It's an encrypted file, so you can't actually read it.
[57:19.460 --> 57:27.020] [SPEAKER_26]: The idea is that if something were to happen to WikiLeaks where they wouldn't be able to release any more cables, they could release the password for the file.
[57:27.160 --> 57:27.840] [SPEAKER_26]: But you're not...
[57:27.840 --> 57:31.060] [SPEAKER_26]: I mean, if you were to download it, you'd really just be another person to have it.
[57:31.080 --> 57:36.680] [SPEAKER_20]: How do we know that the powers that be haven't polluted the torrents by putting fake programs out there, fake files?
[57:36.680 --> 57:37.620] [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know.
[57:37.780 --> 57:37.800] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[57:37.960 --> 57:39.320] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm just stating what I know.
[57:39.540 --> 57:39.740] [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[57:40.040 --> 57:42.400] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, hopefully that's been thought of.
[57:42.600 --> 57:49.820] [SPEAKER_24]: To answer the guy's question, though, if you wish to download the file, you need to just search for BitTorrent client and follow the instructions that you'll find.
[57:50.000 --> 57:50.160] [SPEAKER_24]: Yes.
[57:50.160 --> 57:52.640] [SPEAKER_24]: And they'll instruct you how to work the torrent file to get the other file.
[57:52.640 --> 57:55.220] [SPEAKER_20]: Don't download any illegal movies while you do that, Kyle.
[57:55.600 --> 57:59.140] [SPEAKER_25]: And a lot of the mirrors are hosting the current files.
[57:59.580 --> 58:01.040] [SPEAKER_25]: Some don't have the insurance file.
[58:01.200 --> 58:02.760] [SPEAKER_25]: Those you have to find on the torrent sites.
[58:02.900 --> 58:03.460] [SPEAKER_25]: But the mirrors...
[58:04.160 --> 58:07.940] [SPEAKER_25]: The mirrors are hosting current leaks and...
[58:07.940 --> 58:08.260] [SPEAKER_25]: Yeah.
[58:08.780 --> 58:09.060] [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[58:09.280 --> 58:10.020] [SPEAKER_20]: We are out of time.
[58:10.180 --> 58:12.240] [SPEAKER_20]: Too bad nobody disagreed with us, but...
[58:12.240 --> 58:12.780] [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, well.
[58:13.200 --> 58:13.820] [SPEAKER_20]: Write to us.
[58:13.980 --> 58:15.900] [SPEAKER_20]: oth@2600.com.
[58:15.900 --> 58:17.280] [SPEAKER_20]: We'll be back next week.
[58:17.280 --> 58:19.160] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm sure we're talking about this some more.
[58:19.480 --> 58:20.060] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[58:39.150 --> 58:43.170] [SPEAKER_03]: Spread the disease from the mountain top.
[58:44.890 --> 58:50.230] [SPEAKER_03]: Spread the disease from the bottom of the sea.
[58:51.290 --> 59:01.010] [SPEAKER_03]: Spread the disease to all our friends and foe and didn't know we could be so fatal.
[59:03.680 --> 59:07.480] [SPEAKER_03]: Spread the disease from the moon.
[59:07.480 --> 59:08.140] [SPEAKER_03]: Spread the disease from the satellites.
[59:09.900 --> 59:15.220] [SPEAKER_03]: Spread the disease to the craters of the moon.
[59:16.180 --> 59:21.620] [SPEAKER_03]: Spread the disease to all our friends and foe.
[59:21.900 --> 59:25.960] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how to stop it anymore.
[59:47.240 --> 59:49.740] [SPEAKER_04]: Spread the disease.
[59:50.320 --> 59:52.920] [SPEAKER_04]: Spread the disease.
[59:52.920 --> 59:55.900] [SPEAKER_04]: Spread the disease.
[59:59.780 --> 01:00:02.280] [SPEAKER_04]: Spread the disease.
[01:00:03.100 --> 01:00:05.480] [SPEAKER_04]: Spread the disease.
[01:00:12.300 --> 01:00:17.880] [SPEAKER_02]: There is no cure.
[01:00:19.120 --> 01:00:22.080] [SPEAKER_02]: There is nothing about it.
[01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:28.180] [SPEAKER_02]: There is no antidote.
[01:00:28.700 --> 01:00:30.480] [SPEAKER_02]: There is no cure.
[01:00:31.900 --> 01:00:34.620] [SPEAKER_02]: There is nothing about it.
[01:01:40.250 --> 01:01:44.810] [SPEAKER_03]: Spread the disease from the satellites.
[01:01:46.490 --> 01:01:51.950] [SPEAKER_03]: Spread the disease to the craters of the moon.
[01:01:51.950 --> 01:01:58.430] [SPEAKER_03]: Spread the disease to all our friends and foe.
[01:01:58.490 --> 01:02:02.910] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how to stop it anymore.
[01:02:02.910 --> 01:02:03.810] Boo!
[01:02:09.200 --> 01:02:11.840] [SPEAKER_00]: They always play the greatest music.
[01:02:12.020 --> 01:02:14.640] [SPEAKER_00]: And I particularly like that one.
[01:02:14.640 --> 01:02:20.620] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, this is 8 o'clock exactly on the dot.
[01:02:20.940 --> 01:02:24.400] [SPEAKER_00]: And it is December the 8th, 2010.
[01:02:26.080 --> 01:02:29.680] [SPEAKER_00]: And you are listening to WBAI New York 99.5 FM.
[01:02:29.700 --> 01:02:34.440] [SPEAKER_00]: Also streaming on the web at PCRadioShow.org.
[01:02:34.440 --> 01:02:37.520] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't forget to pick up Hank and his stream.
[01:02:38.060 --> 01:02:43.400] [SPEAKER_00]: The WBAI stream at PCRadioShow.org.
[01:02:43.400 --> 01:02:45.840] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is Stevie D.B.
[01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:48.280] [SPEAKER_00]: and I am Wikileaks.