Off The Hook - 2011-02-16

[00:00.000 --> 00:06.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: And you are listening to WBAI New York, where the time is just about 7 o'clock.
[00:07.080 --> 00:09.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Time, once again, for Off The Hook.
[00:14.980 --> 00:19.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:20.440 --> 00:22.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: I cut myself while shaving.
[00:23.140 --> 00:24.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now I can't make a call.
[00:25.600 --> 00:27.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: We couldn't get much worse.
[00:28.460 --> 00:33.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: They would, but the best is back the worst.
[00:33.830 --> 00:35.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: I hope that's understood.
[00:36.050 --> 00:36.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Monday, no!
[02:02.620 --> 02:03.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: And good evening to everybody.
[02:03.700 --> 02:04.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: The program is Off The Hook.
[02:04.640 --> 02:07.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:07.320 --> 02:09.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Joined tonight by Mike.
[02:09.200 --> 02:09.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hi.
[02:09.860 --> 02:10.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: Voltaire.
[02:10.660 --> 02:10.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hey.
[02:11.080 --> 02:11.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: RedHackt.
[02:11.880 --> 02:12.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello.
[02:12.960 --> 02:13.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Dot.ret.
[02:13.700 --> 02:14.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello.
[02:14.640 --> 02:15.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Kyle.
[02:15.420 --> 02:15.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hi.
[02:15.760 --> 02:17.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: And down in Philadelphia, Bernie S.
[02:17.500 --> 02:18.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:19.140 --> 02:24.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, this actually is our last fundraising week for the winter fundraiser.
[02:24.440 --> 02:25.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: We are not on next week.
[02:25.700 --> 02:28.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the week after that, we're back to normal programming.
[02:28.020 --> 02:32.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, I want to thank everybody who's called in so far and helped out the radio station, helped Off The Hook.
[02:32.920 --> 02:34.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Done pretty well, I think, overall.
[02:34.980 --> 02:36.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Especially after last week.
[02:36.140 --> 02:36.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wow.
[02:37.120 --> 02:41.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, if you liked the premiums from last week and you didn't call last week, you can call now.
[02:41.680 --> 02:46.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: For a limited time, yes, you can do that during this program to get the things that we are offering.
[02:47.080 --> 02:49.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: You have just 57 minutes left.
[02:49.160 --> 02:49.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Exactly.
[02:49.580 --> 02:53.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the phone number, if you just want to get right to it, is 212-209-2950.
[02:53.820 --> 03:00.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we are going to play some excerpts of the DVD set that we're offering, which we'll do in just a moment.
[03:00.360 --> 03:04.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: First, any updates on any stories that people would like to share?
[03:05.180 --> 03:06.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: There was a hearing.
[03:06.580 --> 03:13.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Or, sorry, the documents from the Twitter subpoena hearing were released.
[03:13.180 --> 03:14.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: The Twitter subpoena.
[03:14.220 --> 03:15.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: That sounds so serious.
[03:23.040 --> 03:26.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Rob and Jake Applebaum were subpoenaed.
[03:27.100 --> 03:31.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: The government wants them and wants the related account information.
[03:31.260 --> 03:32.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Not just the tweets, but the private messages.
[03:33.080 --> 03:33.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: The private messages.
[03:34.060 --> 03:38.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: The credit card numbers that the government continues to believe that Twitter has.
[03:38.540 --> 03:39.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: All this stuff.
[03:39.200 --> 03:41.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, obviously, it's not just Twitter, obviously.
[03:42.120 --> 03:45.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's all kinds of online services that do use credit card numbers.
[03:45.520 --> 03:46.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: And Twitter is the one we know about.
[03:46.700 --> 03:46.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[03:46.840 --> 03:50.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: We assume that that's the case, but the one that we know about is Twitter.
[03:50.240 --> 03:56.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: And so there was a motion to unseal this search...
[03:56.740 --> 03:59.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not a search warrant, but the request for the records.
[03:59.620 --> 03:59.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[04:01.420 --> 04:03.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: And also to stop it.
[04:03.320 --> 04:06.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: And so there was a hearing this week, and the result was they'll decide later.
[04:06.780 --> 04:08.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's the result that they're going to decide later.
[04:08.240 --> 04:08.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bernie, you had something?
[04:09.300 --> 04:12.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just said IP addresses was one of the things listed in subpoena.
[04:12.980 --> 04:17.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't believe any judicial oversight is necessary for a subpoena.
[04:17.840 --> 04:18.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is it, Mike?
[04:19.940 --> 04:23.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Some judicial oversight is necessary for whatever this process is.
[04:24.260 --> 04:27.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's subpoenas and search warrants and court orders, and this is one of them.
[04:27.960 --> 04:35.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: But the original request to the providers like Twitter and others was just a subpoena, and it was, you know...
[04:35.600 --> 04:37.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, it was one step up from the subpoena.
[04:38.220 --> 04:38.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Ah.
[04:38.920 --> 04:39.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's...
[04:39.480 --> 04:40.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: The subpoena?
[04:40.960 --> 04:42.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: Something like that.
[04:43.240 --> 04:47.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: So there's been a judge involved this whole time, and now they're trying to ask the judge to, like, please pay attention.
[04:48.640 --> 04:48.880]  Gotcha.
[04:49.300 --> 04:49.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[04:49.680 --> 04:51.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, that's the update there.
[04:52.740 --> 05:03.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the last thing I heard on Julian Assange himself is that he has a hearing or a decision set for February 24th as far as when, if they're going to decide to extradite him to Sweden.
[05:03.680 --> 05:05.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: So we're following that story as well.
[05:05.320 --> 05:05.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: So we should...
[05:05.780 --> 05:07.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Next time we're on the air, we're going to have all kinds of updates.
[05:08.160 --> 05:09.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it might be a totally different world.
[05:09.800 --> 05:12.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Who knows how many more countries will have revolutions between now and then?
[05:12.460 --> 05:20.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you've been to the Egyptian presidency website, it's www.presidency.gov.eg.
[05:21.200 --> 05:23.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: This site is under development and reconstruction.
[05:24.420 --> 05:25.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's got to be a joke.
[05:25.620 --> 05:26.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, it's not.
[05:26.220 --> 05:27.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, it's really their site.
[05:27.220 --> 05:34.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: So it's definitely being changed as we speak for us to actually get something to happen in this country.
[05:34.820 --> 05:35.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Did you check the web archive?
[05:36.040 --> 05:37.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: How long has that under construction page been there?
[05:37.900 --> 05:38.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, I don't know.
[05:38.400 --> 05:39.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, I didn't actually go that far.
[05:40.040 --> 05:42.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: And maybe it's been under construction for a long, long time.
[05:42.260 --> 05:42.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know.
[05:42.620 --> 05:44.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: But something else, though.
[05:44.340 --> 05:45.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Something else that was...
[05:46.920 --> 05:51.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Something else that basically started this week.
[05:52.160 --> 05:52.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: The U.S.
[05:52.820 --> 05:54.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: State Department, we talked about this last night on Off the Wall.
[05:55.180 --> 05:56.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: They started a Farsi Twitter feed.
[05:57.180 --> 05:58.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: You guys know about this?
[05:58.240 --> 05:59.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's nice of them.
[05:59.200 --> 05:59.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[06:01.040 --> 06:01.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's...
[06:01.440 --> 06:02.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bernie, have you heard about this?
[06:03.160 --> 06:05.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, but I'm wondering about how does the character set work?
[06:07.140 --> 06:08.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, if you go to...
[06:08.440 --> 06:09.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you go to...
[06:10.060 --> 06:11.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Twitter.com slash U-S-A-D-A-R Farsi.
[06:14.860 --> 06:16.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: U-S-A-D-A-R-F-A-R-S-I.
[06:16.880 --> 06:19.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can see the character set there.
[06:19.320 --> 06:20.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: It works pretty well, I think.
[06:20.860 --> 06:23.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it's probably just using Unicode, which...
[06:23.340 --> 06:27.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Nowadays, you can actually send things that are not just ASCII on the Internet.
[06:27.580 --> 06:28.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's...
[06:28.480 --> 06:29.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's possible.
[06:29.040 --> 06:29.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's possible, their standards.
[06:29.980 --> 06:32.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, I think they've got that part down pretty much.
[06:33.140 --> 06:36.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: What I found to be interesting, though, I looked at that site.
[06:36.520 --> 06:43.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that site, basically, they have several thousand followers now, but they follow only about 20 other people.
[06:44.360 --> 06:50.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: And one of them is supposedly the Iranian president, Ahmadinejad.
[06:50.720 --> 06:56.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: But if you click on his, you click on his face, you get a mock site where basically he's...
[06:56.560 --> 06:57.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're making fun of him.
[06:57.880 --> 07:01.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're saying that people were simply outside for Valentine's Day.
[07:01.360 --> 07:03.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Nobody was demonstrating against the government.
[07:03.800 --> 07:05.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I don't really run this country.
[07:05.600 --> 07:07.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's run by a bunch of old gray-haired guys.
[07:07.440 --> 07:08.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, things like that.
[07:08.680 --> 07:11.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Things that obviously is not being said by him.
[07:11.580 --> 07:12.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: But you have the U.S.
[07:12.740 --> 07:17.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: State Department following this guy and making it somehow appear legitimate.
[07:17.480 --> 07:19.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I'm just wondering, do they know that it's fake?
[07:20.060 --> 07:21.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was pretty funny.
[07:23.180 --> 07:26.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, so, yeah, by all means, check that out.
[07:26.880 --> 07:27.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: U.S.
[07:27.400 --> 07:33.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: A-D-A-R-F-A-R-S-I is the Farsi Twitter feed for the U.S.
[07:33.600 --> 07:34.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: State Department.
[07:34.220 --> 07:36.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's the latest thing that's going on there.
[07:37.700 --> 07:40.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: I should point out, we are in fundraiser mode.
[07:41.080 --> 07:43.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we do need people to call in.
[07:43.460 --> 07:45.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: And what we were offering last week was wildly popular.
[07:46.480 --> 07:52.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we're going to offer it one more week for the remaining week that we're here for a pledge of $100.
[07:53.400 --> 07:57.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Kyle, do you want to describe it for them since you've been instrumental in putting this together?
[07:57.000 --> 07:57.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, sure.
[07:57.820 --> 08:06.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: For $100, we'll be giving people four gigabyte thumb drives with all the WikiLeaks data that was released in 2010.
[08:06.320 --> 08:17.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it includes the Iraq war logs, the Afghan war logs, the cable gate documents, as well as the insurance file, which is encrypted.
[08:17.720 --> 08:24.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then both versions, the extended version and the analysis of the collateral murder video.
[08:24.340 --> 08:35.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: For those who don't know, that's basically tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of documents that will appear on this thumb drive.
[08:35.720 --> 08:35.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[08:36.180 --> 08:40.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, well, as you said, it was all released last year by WikiLeaks.
[08:40.660 --> 08:45.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: So I guess the question I have for you is why wouldn't someone just go out on the Internet and just grab all this right now?
[08:46.200 --> 08:52.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, oddly enough, it's kind of hard to find the documents being hosted by any of the mirrors.
[08:52.680 --> 09:00.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of mirrors for WikiLeaks, but they're only hosting like about a handful of the things that were released, the really popular things that were released.
[09:01.180 --> 09:12.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: So to find a comprehensive archive, you have to go on to torrent sites and maybe the main WikiLeaks site, which is directing to wikileaks.info right now.
[09:12.020 --> 09:18.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's the only place you can actually get a comprehensive listing of each leak date, you know, as they were released chronologically.
[09:19.240 --> 09:23.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: To give an idea, you've spent a good amount of time tracking all this down.
[09:23.140 --> 09:26.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: It wasn't a simple question of going to a site and downloading everything.
[09:26.560 --> 09:28.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: You had to actually search for it.
[09:28.400 --> 09:29.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I find that amazing.
[09:29.660 --> 09:37.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're talking about something that is so controversial, so much in the news, and yet it's gotten so difficult to actually get a comprehensive collection of all this.
[09:37.320 --> 09:41.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because that's what we're making easy for you here by having it on a thumb drive.
[09:41.840 --> 09:55.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the other part of that is then verifying that it is what it purports to be, whatever you're reading a description on torrent site, or if it's from the main page, you have to make sure that it's actually what it says it is once you download it.
[09:55.240 --> 09:59.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then a lot of people are a little bit afraid of downloading in general, I think.
[09:59.460 --> 10:01.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, people are afraid of going to the WikiLeaks site.
[10:01.600 --> 10:02.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, exactly.
[10:02.360 --> 10:03.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thinking they'll get in trouble if they even go there.
[10:03.700 --> 10:15.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right, and you can tell your friends or your family about it, but is people in your immediate family, are they capable of going out and finding something on a torrent site, or are they willing?
[10:15.300 --> 10:19.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: Ask yourself, do your parents have a copy of the WikiLeaks files?
[10:19.640 --> 10:22.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: And odds are, you're going to answer no, they don't.
[10:22.620 --> 10:27.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Does your aunt, does your uncle, do your grandparents, do all these people, do they have this information?
[10:27.640 --> 10:29.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: And if not, well, why not?
[10:29.680 --> 10:32.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Why doesn't everybody have a copy of this information?
[10:32.600 --> 10:41.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: And how easy will it be to spread this information when it's a comprehensive collection, as showing up on our WBAI thumb drives?
[10:42.100 --> 10:45.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950 for a pledge of $100, you get it all.
[10:45.620 --> 10:52.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: You get all of 2010, the stuff that really hit the media hard, and changed the world.
[10:53.080 --> 10:58.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Changed how people view their governments, and how people view whistleblowers.
[10:58.100 --> 11:04.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950, remember, we're just offering this for the next hour, as part of the Off The Hook collection.
[11:05.680 --> 11:08.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: You'll also get some other material as well.
[11:08.220 --> 11:11.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: You'll get the full video, Collateral Murder, which is stunning.
[11:12.040 --> 11:16.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I don't say that in terms of what it documents.
[11:16.680 --> 11:31.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's shocking and horrible what it documents, but it's stunning in the effect that it will have on you, when you're watching what American troops are doing to innocent people, what turned out to be innocent people, and yet still trying to blame it somehow on the innocent people.
[11:31.280 --> 11:33.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's really pretty shocking and horrifying.
[11:34.640 --> 11:38.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: And what does this have to do with a show that's usually about hacking?
[11:39.020 --> 11:40.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it's about information disclosure.
[11:40.480 --> 11:42.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's about getting the truth out there.
[11:42.100 --> 11:47.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's about going into a system and finding something that you're not supposed to have access to.
[11:47.900 --> 11:52.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that is what the entire world succeeded in doing last year through the actions of a few people.
[11:53.080 --> 12:05.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: And by calling 212-209-2950, pledging $100, getting the entire collection, you're basically saying that that's something that matters, that this wasn't done in vain, that people will actually learn something from this.
[12:05.960 --> 12:23.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I think it makes you, the conversation with people in your family and in your circle that are involved in the military, it really makes you seek them out and really look at them a little differently and ask questions and maybe engage in a little bit more conversation about politics and war in general.
[12:24.000 --> 12:28.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I also think, I truly believe that it's our responsibility to go through this data.
[12:28.960 --> 12:39.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: The people that have risked their reputation or their career, whatever it took to get this information out, I think it's, now that it's here, it's our responsibility to go through it, to pour through it.
[12:39.340 --> 12:46.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: And there's been some cool things with making it searchable and making it easy to digest and to understand.
[12:46.840 --> 12:55.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: But we need more and more people to have access to this stuff and not to be afraid of it, but rather to go through the data and understand what it means for our country and for the world.
[12:55.900 --> 12:57.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950.
[12:58.140 --> 12:59.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: Join the people that are on the line now.
[12:59.560 --> 13:01.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950.
[13:01.500 --> 13:04.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Pledge of $100 gets you the entire WikiLeaks collection.
[13:04.860 --> 13:16.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, here's like the real question is, what happens if these purported US government plots to damage or take down WikiLeaks were it actually come to fruition?
[13:16.600 --> 13:18.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, then what would happen to...
[13:18.240 --> 13:20.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: This information is already so hard to get a hold of.
[13:20.880 --> 13:22.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Imagine if the source were to then disappear.
[13:23.200 --> 13:23.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[13:23.620 --> 13:24.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: How hard would it be then?
[13:24.880 --> 13:26.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's hard enough with the sites up.
[13:26.620 --> 13:27.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, just imagine if it's gone.
[13:27.660 --> 13:31.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're keeping track of it all, but Kyle's gone out and collected it all.
[13:31.220 --> 13:31.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Exactly.
[13:31.560 --> 13:39.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Other people have done this too, but we're offering it to you on this thumb drive that will plug into your computer and then you'll have it.
[13:39.340 --> 13:43.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can do whatever you want with it and just be another bastion of democracy by holding on to it.
[13:43.940 --> 13:51.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, this is fantastically important information and I would say that it's not just something that you should have, but, you know, maybe even your duty to have.
[13:51.560 --> 13:55.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: You should know what your government is doing and if you don't like it, you should tell them.
[13:56.300 --> 13:57.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Otherwise, it's not a democracy.
[13:58.400 --> 14:04.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's one additional thing that you get with your pledge that you, regardless of your level of technical skill, you can't get anywhere else.
[14:04.400 --> 14:07.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's off the hook and WBAI keeping us on the air.
[14:07.460 --> 14:14.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: We've been on the air as a show for decades, as a station for even more decades, but we can't do it without your support.
[14:15.200 --> 14:18.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we say that, we say that every time, but it's not hyperbole.
[14:19.240 --> 14:23.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: This station has no sources of income other than our listeners, you folks.
[14:24.220 --> 14:29.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: So give us a call, 212-209-2950 and join the people who are already calling.
[14:29.980 --> 14:34.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Get the premium, but more importantly, keep us coming to you.
[14:34.540 --> 14:35.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Emmanuel.
[14:35.200 --> 14:35.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[14:35.720 --> 14:42.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just wanted to point out that what Kyle said is it kind of understated the risk that people took.
[14:42.760 --> 14:53.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: People literally, several people, or at least one person, literally risked their life to provide this information to the American public.
[14:54.980 --> 14:57.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Espionage has a death penalty in this country.
[14:57.360 --> 15:01.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of other Westernized countries do not have the death penalty, but the United States does.
[15:01.480 --> 15:14.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the people who brought this information to the public through WikiLeaks literally risked their lives to make you aware, not just you, Emmanuel, but everybody who's listening, everybody in the country, aware of what our government is doing.
[15:14.940 --> 15:19.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: I guarantee anyone reading this massive stash of classified U.S.
[15:20.360 --> 15:27.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: government documents can't walk away unchanged after reading just a fraction of it or watching the collateral murder video.
[15:27.580 --> 15:36.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the first time that WBAI or probably any other radio station in the country has offered a massive stash of classified U.S.
[15:36.360 --> 15:41.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: government documents to our listeners as a premium for supporting the radio station.
[15:41.020 --> 15:56.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I really urge our listeners to call WBAI at 212-209-2950 and become part of what's going on all around the world right now, with people becoming aware of what their governments are doing and speaking up for what they really believe in.
[15:56.980 --> 15:59.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-209-2950.
[15:59.420 --> 16:06.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, it was only a matter of time before somebody did such a thing, and I guess Off The Hook is a good place to start with that.
[16:06.180 --> 16:06.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: We did it last week.
[16:07.760 --> 16:11.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: We made over $3,200 in a single hour, which was incredible.
[16:12.220 --> 16:16.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we want to give people a chance to take advantage of this for this remaining hour that we have here.
[16:16.740 --> 16:18.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950.
[16:18.260 --> 16:24.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: I should point out, too, that the phones are ringing, but this new program that we have doesn't seem to be reflecting that.
[16:24.040 --> 16:28.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: I see calls coming in, but there's a light of lights, and none of them are lit.
[16:28.840 --> 16:31.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I know the calls are coming in, and we're just not seeing that.
[16:31.520 --> 16:36.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: So I don't know if anybody wants to play around with this program on the computer screen and maybe figure out how to get it to work.
[16:36.660 --> 16:38.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: But thanks to those people who are calling in.
[16:38.620 --> 16:39.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: We do appreciate it.
[16:39.580 --> 16:39.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Voltaire?
[16:40.040 --> 16:54.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's important to remember that WBAI isn't like most of the other non-commercial stations that are NPR affiliates, because, unlike them, we have a lot more independent content, and we're not funded by the Koch brothers.
[16:55.820 --> 17:00.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're just funded by listeners like you and not by wealthy philanthropists and stuff.
[17:01.320 --> 17:01.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[17:02.080 --> 17:02.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[17:02.520 --> 17:06.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, we're also offering some other items tonight.
[17:06.800 --> 17:09.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: We did this the first week we were on.
[17:09.080 --> 17:15.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: We had some excerpts, some DVDs from our various HOPE conferences.
[17:15.820 --> 17:21.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: And what we have, we have a collection of DVDs from not one, not two, but three separate OPE conferences.
[17:22.140 --> 17:22.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: HOPE Number Six, The Last Hope, and The Next Hope
[17:24.340 --> 17:26.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's the order they actually happened in.
[17:26.960 --> 17:27.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: HOPE Number Six was 2006.
[17:28.500 --> 17:29.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: The Last Hope was 2008.
[17:29.780 --> 17:30.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: The Next Hope, 2010.
[17:31.340 --> 17:40.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: And what we have for a pledge of $75 is a collection of 20 of the most popular talks that took place during that conference.
[17:41.280 --> 17:43.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: $75, 212, 209, 2950.
[17:43.240 --> 17:46.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: For a pledge of $125, you'll get 40 DVDs.
[17:47.020 --> 17:52.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's 4-0 of the most popular talks that took place at those three conferences.
[17:52.860 --> 17:58.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, we're going to play an excerpt from one of our favorite speakers, and that, of course, is Robert Steele.
[17:58.440 --> 18:01.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: He actually was our first speaker at the very first HOPE back in 1994.
[18:02.280 --> 18:07.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: Let's take a listen to something that he had to share with the crowd at HOPE Number Six back in 2006.
[18:08.980 --> 18:17.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is just one of 20 DVDs that you'll get for a pledge of $75, one of 40 DVDs that you'll get for a pledge of $125.
[18:17.980 --> 18:22.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, of course, we also have the WikiLeaks collection for a pledge of $100.
[18:22.500 --> 18:25.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212, 209, 2950.
[18:25.460 --> 18:26.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Here's Robert Steele.
[18:26.160 --> 18:27.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is reality.
[18:28.960 --> 18:39.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: Your government is spending $60 billion a year, 95% of the cost, on what is arguably, at best, 20% of the value.
[18:40.880 --> 18:43.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: We are spending less than $600 million.
[18:44.100 --> 18:53.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: And in focus terms with the Foreign Broadcast Information Service, the new $20 million a year, this is piss-ant stuff, $20 million a year for the Large-Scale Internet Exploitation Initiative.
[18:54.020 --> 18:58.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: We're talking here $250 million of focused open-source intelligence dollars.
[18:59.140 --> 19:01.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: This doesn't count research and all that other generic stuff.
[19:02.620 --> 19:04.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: What's wrong with this picture?
[19:05.160 --> 19:07.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: $60 billion for the 5% we can steal?
[19:09.120 --> 19:13.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Less than $600 million for the 95% we really need to know?
[19:15.120 --> 19:17.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm changing the rules of the game, but it's hard going.
[19:17.640 --> 19:20.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: We're in year 18 of a 25-year dogfight.
[19:22.440 --> 19:24.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: I have a small chance of winning.
[19:25.740 --> 19:41.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: The intelligence community today, to monitor and predict the outcome of a baseball game, will use clandestine human intelligence to bribe one or two of the ballplayers out of 22 to either drop the ball or catch the ball at any given moment.
[19:41.740 --> 19:43.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: They're agents of influence.
[19:43.860 --> 19:47.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: The signals intelligence community will put a bug in the dugout.
[19:47.640 --> 19:49.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: And try and overhear the coach giving instructions.
[19:50.580 --> 19:54.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: The imagery intelligence community will take a picture of the ball field every three days.
[19:55.160 --> 19:57.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: And try and call the game that way.
[19:59.040 --> 20:03.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: The measurements and signatures community will try and sniff the ball.
[20:03.860 --> 20:05.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: And the direction it's going.
[20:05.620 --> 20:08.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: And when it doesn't work, we'll ask for $10 billion more.
[20:08.560 --> 20:15.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: Or, the open-source intelligence community says, yo, dudes, catch the ball, he's out and we pay.
[20:17.680 --> 20:20.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's about harnessing the distributed intelligence of the whole earth.
[20:21.040 --> 20:22.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: I know you understand this.
[20:22.980 --> 20:26.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: People in Washington are very afraid of this idea, if they bother to think about it.
[20:28.040 --> 20:33.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: This, by the way, is the assistant deputy director of intelligence for open-source.
[20:33.240 --> 20:34.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: Lipstick on the pig.
[20:36.020 --> 20:38.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, we have two differing views of OSINT.
[20:38.720 --> 20:43.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: His view is he wants to be a good boy and fit in with the bureaucracy and have his office perks.
[20:44.140 --> 20:46.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: Unfortunately, he has no program authority.
[20:46.780 --> 20:50.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: He has no money to spend other than $5 million a year on miscellaneous.
[20:51.540 --> 20:52.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: And he has no permanent staff.
[20:53.920 --> 20:54.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: He's dog meat.
[20:55.500 --> 20:56.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: He is lip service.
[20:57.700 --> 21:03.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: My view is that we need to create a robust, open-source intelligence community outside of the government.
[21:04.420 --> 21:07.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: My second book, The New Craft of Intelligence, is available at Amazon.
[21:09.060 --> 21:11.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: And it basically focuses on the obvious.
[21:12.820 --> 21:15.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe it's obvious to you and me, but it's not obvious to the spies.
[21:15.720 --> 21:17.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I've been a spy and I know all those problems.
[21:18.100 --> 21:19.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: Lessons of history.
[21:20.800 --> 21:27.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bush did not understand, three months into the war in Iraq, that there were Sunnis and Shiites.
[21:28.860 --> 21:31.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: And that the majority liked Iran.
[21:33.220 --> 21:39.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: And in this book I just read, The End of Iraq, Ahmed Shalabi's role cannot be understated.
[21:40.240 --> 21:42.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: The man was a masterful manipulator.
[21:42.860 --> 21:45.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: I believe he was an agent of influence for Iran.
[21:45.540 --> 21:48.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: I believe that Iran has run circles around us.
[21:48.680 --> 21:54.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I believe, actually, that Iran should be much more respected by the United States of America.
[21:54.940 --> 22:04.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: We tend to confuse nationalism and a desire for alternative energy with conspiracy theories and communism and all this other stuff.
[22:05.240 --> 22:17.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, I'm not at all convinced that Iran is a major threat to the United States of America, but there are a number of lunatics here in New York City who forget that the CIA ran a coup in Iran against the will of the people.
[22:18.640 --> 22:21.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: And we're now paying for that, as we're paying for it in many other places.
[22:22.060 --> 22:28.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Global coverage, there's no one agency, no one country that can see all information in all languages all the time, which is my third book.
[22:28.620 --> 22:30.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: And we have to do a burden-sharing thing.
[22:31.340 --> 22:34.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: There are 1,400 Middle Eastern experts in the United States of America.
[22:35.680 --> 22:37.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: Washington talks to about 14 of them.
[22:39.160 --> 22:40.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: 1,400?
[22:40.580 --> 22:41.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: 14.
[22:41.020 --> 22:42.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: Why?
[22:42.520 --> 22:44.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, these 14 are white.
[22:44.320 --> 22:45.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: They're in Washington.
[22:46.040 --> 22:47.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: They have clearances.
[22:48.000 --> 22:50.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: They maybe worked in the intelligence community previously.
[22:51.540 --> 22:52.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay?
[22:52.640 --> 23:05.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: Believe it or not, when a CIA analyst tries to call people in the country they're responsible for, they are investigated by the CIA security officers with high school educations that got promoted after 20 years of checking safes at night.
[23:06.120 --> 23:06.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay?
[23:07.080 --> 23:09.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is seriously poor stuff.
[23:09.640 --> 23:14.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: And then we still need spies in secrecy for things like transnational criminal gangs and so forth.
[23:15.060 --> 23:18.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: You can actually eliminate most fraud, waste, and abuse with statistical analysis.
[23:19.500 --> 23:20.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay?
[23:20.180 --> 23:27.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: I have one fellow that discovered $74 million in crop fraud for a $4 million package of looking.
[23:27.280 --> 23:29.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: I have two other guys that...
[23:29.120 --> 23:30.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't own them.
[23:30.320 --> 23:30.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: I just know them.
[23:31.060 --> 23:36.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: Two other guys found $50 billion a year in import-export tax fraud avoidance.
[23:36.360 --> 23:37.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Tax avoidance fraud.
[23:37.580 --> 23:45.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is like $25 rocket engines going to China and $3,000 pencils coming in from China.
[23:45.840 --> 23:47.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is advanced money laundering.
[23:47.860 --> 23:53.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: And oh, by the way, a pound of coffee from Colombia actually weighs between one and a quarter and one and a half pounds.
[23:54.520 --> 23:55.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay?
[23:55.220 --> 24:04.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: So we need to go toward a national intelligence endeavor that has shared unclassified information.
[24:04.400 --> 24:07.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: It has a help desk that shares best practices, best prices.
[24:08.060 --> 24:11.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: It has primary research and experts on demand strategic forecasting.
[24:11.860 --> 24:12.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: So this is it.
[24:12.920 --> 24:15.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm going to try and put this on my website as a model real soon.
[24:17.980 --> 24:18.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[24:18.560 --> 24:19.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I'm sure he did that as well.
[24:20.000 --> 24:22.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's Robert Steele speaking at Hope No.
[24:22.300 --> 24:22.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: 6.
[24:22.960 --> 24:31.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: One of 20 DVDs that you'll get for a pledge of $75 from the three Hackers on Planet Earth conferences that took place since 2006.
[24:31.580 --> 24:35.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you pledge $125, you'll get 40 DVDs from those three conferences.
[24:35.540 --> 24:37.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's 212-209-2950.
[24:37.840 --> 24:45.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, of course, in addition, we're also offering the WikiLeaks collection of all sorts of documents.
[24:46.000 --> 24:51.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of documents on a thumb drive that you can put on your computer.
[24:51.820 --> 24:54.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can print it out and spread it around.
[24:54.100 --> 24:55.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can do all kinds of things.
[24:55.480 --> 24:56.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: It works with any computer, right?
[24:57.040 --> 24:57.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[24:57.640 --> 24:59.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: A thumb drive, as long as you can put a thumb drive.
[24:59.600 --> 25:02.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: And as far as I know, every computer accepts thumb drives these days, right?
[25:02.480 --> 25:05.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: So you just put the thumb drive in and you'll see government secrets.
[25:06.160 --> 25:07.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, yeah, pretty much.
[25:07.780 --> 25:09.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's pretty much what's going to happen.
[25:09.220 --> 25:10.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: The worst nightmare of the government.
[25:11.180 --> 25:18.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Better yet, if you're someone who wants to help spread this kind of information, you know people who are maybe scared to go and find this stuff.
[25:19.140 --> 25:21.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Maybe you're not so scared yourself, but lazy.
[25:21.220 --> 25:21.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can just get this.
[25:22.060 --> 25:22.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: All the work is already done.
[25:23.060 --> 25:27.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: And then you can just copy it onto other flash drives, burn on the disks, throw it at all your friends.
[25:27.860 --> 25:30.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: And before you know it, it's not so hard to find it.
[25:30.340 --> 25:41.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Even if you have absolutely no interest whatsoever, and I can't imagine you not having any interest, but maybe you don't have time to go through hundreds of thousands of documents, you have the data right there on something you can fit in the palm of your hand.
[25:41.480 --> 25:52.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can simply copy it, give it to all your friends, spread it around, and be an important part of that process by not letting a story die, which is what the people in power want to have happen.
[25:52.700 --> 26:03.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: So by calling 212-209-2950 and pledging $100, you can take an important step in the most important story of the last year, and maybe last many years.
[26:03.120 --> 26:04.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's entirely possible.
[26:04.660 --> 26:16.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, so just remember, the only way, this is all fantastic stuff we're talking about, but the only way that this will actually happen is if you dial 212-209-2950 and pledge $100 to the station.
[26:16.260 --> 26:24.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, Mike, you went down to the tally room because we're trying to figure out what's wrong with the computer program here, and you look kind of out of breath when you came back.
[26:24.800 --> 26:26.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is everything okay down there?
[26:26.300 --> 26:27.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is it getting frantic or what?
[26:27.900 --> 26:29.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, not frantic enough.
[26:29.320 --> 26:29.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Not frantic enough.
[26:30.020 --> 26:30.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Not frantic enough.
[26:30.960 --> 26:34.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: 212-209-2950 is the number to call to make it frantic.
[26:34.320 --> 26:35.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: I see a lot of calls coming in.
[26:35.560 --> 26:35.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, good.
[26:35.840 --> 26:41.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: So I want to make sure that that's not just a ghost on the screen, that it's really happening.
[26:42.060 --> 26:45.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: And you can make that happen by dialing 212-209-2950.
[26:45.540 --> 26:47.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Interesting story.
[26:47.560 --> 26:49.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Kyle, you found this on the Internet.
[26:50.900 --> 26:56.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hillary Clinton basically talking about boosting support for cyber dissidents.
[26:56.860 --> 26:58.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: And this certainly...
[26:58.200 --> 26:59.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: It made me feel good.
[26:59.960 --> 27:00.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wow, she finally gets it.
[27:01.400 --> 27:10.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: The United States stands with cyber dissidents and democracy activists from the Middle East to China and beyond, but maybe not the United States so much.
[27:10.780 --> 27:18.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: So the Middle East to China and beyond, does she mean like up to Korea or does she keep going across the ocean and over to the United States?
[27:18.260 --> 27:19.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: She does not make it to the United States.
[27:20.120 --> 27:24.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Basically, she said, and she very clearly pointed to WikiLeaks.
[27:24.420 --> 27:30.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: She said the WikiLeaks incident, though, began with a theft just as if it had been executed by smuggling papers in a briefcase.
[27:30.740 --> 27:34.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: The fact that WikiLeaks used the Internet is not the reason we criticized it.
[27:34.560 --> 27:37.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: WikiLeaks does not challenge our commitment to Internet freedom.
[27:38.140 --> 27:40.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Maybe because they don't have any commitment to Internet freedom.
[27:40.400 --> 27:42.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: They don't have to be challenged, but...
[27:42.380 --> 27:47.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: So they have a very clear commitment to Internet freedom in countries they don't like.
[27:47.500 --> 27:48.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Is that the way it works?
[27:48.720 --> 27:49.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: Pretty much.
[27:49.120 --> 27:49.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[27:50.000 --> 27:50.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Voltaire?
[27:50.920 --> 28:00.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's kind of like during the Cold War when we'd send our support to Czech dissidents and people in the Soviet Union and while at the same time support dictators...
[28:00.860 --> 28:04.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: not just support, but instill dictators in Latin America.
[28:04.760 --> 28:04.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[28:05.240 --> 28:08.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: They support dissidents as long as they're not dissidents of this government.
[28:09.080 --> 28:09.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[28:09.260 --> 28:09.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or a friend.
[28:10.020 --> 28:10.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[28:10.600 --> 28:10.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: Interesting.
[28:11.100 --> 28:13.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: And there's a dynamite quote in here, too.
[28:13.520 --> 28:14.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Are you ready for this one?
[28:14.420 --> 28:15.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is the quote of all quotes.
[28:16.260 --> 28:17.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is Hillary Clinton.
[28:17.740 --> 28:18.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is Hillary Clinton.
[28:18.660 --> 28:19.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: Again, the U.S.
[28:20.020 --> 28:20.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: will...
[28:20.420 --> 28:20.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: And here's a quote.
[28:21.080 --> 28:30.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: Will help people in oppressive Internet environments get around filters, stay one step ahead of the censors, the hackers, and the thugs who beat them up or imprison them for what they say online.
[28:31.340 --> 28:36.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Somehow, Hillary Clinton has injected hackers into the role of oppressive government.
[28:37.020 --> 28:38.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know how she managed to pull this one off.
[28:38.940 --> 28:39.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: This beats what her husband did.
[28:40.360 --> 28:41.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: But I'm going to read it again.
[28:41.640 --> 28:42.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: The U.S.
[28:42.180 --> 28:49.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: will help people in oppressive Internet environments get around filters, stay one step ahead of the censors, the hackers, and the thugs.
[28:49.800 --> 28:51.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bernie, what's your impression of this?
[28:52.020 --> 28:56.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I've been loving this the past few weeks, just being highly entertained.
[28:56.560 --> 28:58.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure you and our listeners have been as well.
[28:58.880 --> 29:08.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hearing our government spokespeople mince words and trying to not sound hypocritical, you couldn't write this kind of entertainment.
[29:08.580 --> 29:10.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're such hypocrites.
[29:11.140 --> 29:18.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, personally, I resent, and I'm sure many of our other listeners, being lumped in with thugs who would physically beat people up.
[29:18.120 --> 29:19.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's not what hackers do.
[29:19.400 --> 29:25.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hackers make people aware of information that they would otherwise not probably have access to.
[29:26.020 --> 29:27.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what we do.
[29:27.280 --> 29:29.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what we're here at WBAI to do.
[29:29.820 --> 29:34.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's why we're bringing you tens of thousands of classified U.S.
[29:34.220 --> 29:44.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: government documents on a thumb drive that you can get by calling 212-209-2950 and sharing the wealth of knowledge that you'd get by doing that.
[29:44.860 --> 29:47.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have some other great previews, too, but that's the gist of it.
[29:47.220 --> 29:53.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's important to point out that, yes, we are sharing tens of thousands of formerly classified documents.
[29:53.560 --> 29:54.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're not classified anymore.
[29:54.460 --> 29:55.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're out there.
[29:55.680 --> 30:01.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: And what the powers that be are trying to do is suppress them and keep them from continuing to be out there.
[30:01.760 --> 30:02.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're already out.
[30:02.420 --> 30:09.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: The story is happening and people need to be able to hear what the rest of the world is able to hear.
[30:10.100 --> 30:10.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's what we're doing.
[30:11.160 --> 30:14.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: And you can debate whether or not it was right to leak the things in the first place.
[30:15.080 --> 30:15.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're leaked.
[30:15.720 --> 30:16.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're out there.
[30:17.120 --> 30:24.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: And a lot of us seem to think that that was an heroic thing to do, to leak that information, to tell people what their governments are actually up to.
[30:24.600 --> 30:32.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: And there are many thousands of people in other parts of the world that are very happy to find out what their governments are really up to because then they can finally make the changes that they need to make.
[30:33.200 --> 30:35.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can be a part of this view.
[30:36.160 --> 30:46.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can be a part of valuing this kind of thing by calling 212-209-2950, pledging your support, and getting something really kind of interesting and amazing in exchange.
[30:47.640 --> 30:48.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, Kyle.
[30:48.740 --> 30:53.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: What really got me about this article and the way it was phrased, there were a couple of things that jumped out at me.
[30:53.460 --> 30:56.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: But basically, it's like the US government supports cyber dissidents.
[30:56.600 --> 31:04.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: But now that WikiLeaks is really trying to establish the perspective that they've always really been based on, which is that of journalism.
[31:04.360 --> 31:10.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, they support cyber dissidents, but not so much journalism, which is kind of frightening.
[31:10.420 --> 31:15.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the other bit of the wording, I guess dot.ret spoke to this a little earlier.
[31:16.020 --> 31:26.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's been a lot of talk about things being leaked with the security firm and Anonymous and all of this stuff going around.
[31:26.820 --> 31:46.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: And basically, what that speaks to is that the Chamber of Commerce has been recommending security and legal firms to these private security companies and Bank of America, actually, because Bank of America is concerned about these finance leaks that are supposedly coming out.
[31:46.280 --> 31:58.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, it's just a lot of irony that you have this mounting legal and corporate offense on journalism and information being freed.
[31:59.080 --> 32:09.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: And yet, at the same time, you know, we're supporting all these cyber dissidents and freedom of information and speech on the Internet.
[32:09.600 --> 32:10.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, I don't know.
[32:10.720 --> 32:12.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: I just think it's terribly ironic.
[32:12.440 --> 32:27.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I don't know, I just want to like jump in here and say that, you know, when you hear Hillary Clinton saying that the United States not only supports, but wants to help people get around the blockages of information on the Internet, that just sounds like a flat out lie,
[32:27.160 --> 32:30.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: because then they wouldn't want that kind of power being used against them.
[32:30.560 --> 32:39.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: And they're trying to stop it with organizations like that's why you redefine words, you make hackers into thugs, you make hackers into the censors and the oppressors, which is a bizarre thing to try to do.
[32:39.820 --> 32:42.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: But she's apparently attempting to do that.
[32:42.480 --> 32:44.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's how I never thought I'd see something.
[32:44.680 --> 32:56.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're trying to take even the more disturbing level of saying, well, with with a lot of these high profile cracks, who else could possibly do it besides big supernatural government, you know, governments or other interests.
[32:56.620 --> 33:12.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: And then you have these poor hackers that are maybe being wrongly accused or other people, you know, going going into crazy shows and people being put on for espionage and things that never were supposed to be on in the conversation in the first place.
[33:12.840 --> 33:14.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think we're reading too much into this.
[33:14.660 --> 33:19.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think the only explanation for that crazy statement is that unlike her husband, Hillary did inhale.
[33:20.040 --> 33:20.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[33:20.980 --> 33:21.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, maybe she did.
[33:22.560 --> 33:24.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950.
[33:24.880 --> 33:26.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's the number to call.
[33:26.560 --> 33:27.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: We think calls are coming in.
[33:27.780 --> 33:31.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's almost impossible to tell with this crazy computer program that we have running here.
[33:32.060 --> 33:38.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I certainly would understand if calls were coming in because it's a it's a it's an incredible premium that we're offering tonight.
[33:38.320 --> 33:40.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: And again, we're only on for another 27 minutes.
[33:40.420 --> 33:42.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that's it for the fundraiser.
[33:42.480 --> 33:46.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: This this season, 212-209-2950.
[33:47.000 --> 33:52.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: Again, a pledge of $100 gets you, I guess, more than 100,000 documents.
[33:52.880 --> 33:55.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: Basically, cables, they're kind of small documents, but they're significant.
[33:55.780 --> 33:56.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're things the U.S.
[33:56.720 --> 34:00.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: government certainly did not want to have released one way or another.
[34:01.460 --> 34:02.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950.
[34:03.020 --> 34:03.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Red Hat.
[34:03.280 --> 34:05.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're significant and insignificant, right?
[34:05.240 --> 34:06.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I don't think there's...
[34:07.280 --> 34:09.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, yeah, I mean, it's everything.
[34:09.860 --> 34:11.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: Some things are dull and boring.
[34:11.660 --> 34:12.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Some things are...
[34:12.580 --> 34:13.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wow, I can't believe...
[34:13.400 --> 34:13.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: But that's fine.
[34:14.100 --> 34:15.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's better to be that way than just the...
[34:15.840 --> 34:17.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't think your microphone's working at all.
[34:17.960 --> 34:19.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: Or it wasn't before.
[34:19.060 --> 34:20.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're going to have to share with someone else.
[34:20.780 --> 34:21.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[34:21.060 --> 34:26.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was saying that, you know, better to have everything than just, you know, what might be the most important.
[34:26.760 --> 34:28.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because you never know what people might find important.
[34:28.940 --> 34:30.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: There might be things hidden in there.
[34:30.380 --> 34:31.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: There might be all kinds of things that are...
[34:31.720 --> 34:32.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Give it all.
[34:32.600 --> 34:33.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, exactly.
[34:33.280 --> 34:34.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950.
[34:34.500 --> 34:37.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, we're going to play another excerpt from one of the HOPE conferences.
[34:37.900 --> 34:42.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is from a panel at The Last HOPE called Postal Hacking.
[34:43.000 --> 34:46.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm going to read you some of the synopsis of this.
[34:46.760 --> 34:50.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: A review of the United States Postal Service discusses numerous mail-related issues.
[34:50.680 --> 34:53.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: What is the heaviest thing that you can send in a flat-rate box?
[34:53.560 --> 34:55.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: What happens if you mail a sphere?
[34:56.460 --> 34:58.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: What are the mysteries of digital postage meters?
[34:59.180 --> 35:04.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Look at how modern automation allows you to send a letter 3,000 miles for...
[35:04.000 --> 35:05.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Back then, it was only 42 cents.
[35:05.640 --> 35:08.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: And what security vulnerabilities might exist in that infrastructure.
[35:08.760 --> 35:13.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is one of 20 talks that you'll get for a pledge of $75.
[35:14.360 --> 35:20.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: One of 40 talks you'll get for a pledge of 125 to 212-209-2950.
[35:21.100 --> 35:33.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: And again, we have the WikiLeaks thumb drive, 4 gigs, filled with all kinds of information of sensitive and non-sensitive, interesting and boring, all kinds of things that are out there.
[35:34.140 --> 35:38.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: For a pledge of $100, you'll get that 4 gig thumb drive, 212-209-2950.
[35:38.740 --> 35:40.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Let's listen to some postal hacking.
[35:40.480 --> 35:42.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, a lot of people wonder why the post office matters to them.
[35:43.240 --> 35:48.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's really important to our economy because it's a universal delivery service and it's really, really cheap.
[35:49.040 --> 35:52.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: Nobody in here is going to take something to California for 42 cents except the post office.
[35:53.080 --> 36:00.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: And a lot of banking, a lot of business, medical supplies, books, libraries, everybody uses the postal system.
[36:01.200 --> 36:03.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: And so it's really important to us.
[36:03.180 --> 36:07.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's also neat from a libertarian standpoint because it's a fiscally independent government organization.
[36:07.740 --> 36:09.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: And there's not a lot of these out there.
[36:09.780 --> 36:13.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: It is a private corporation, although all the shares are owned by the Fed.
[36:15.060 --> 36:18.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: None of your tax dollars goes to paying for postal delivery service.
[36:18.560 --> 36:20.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: They completely have to raise their own money.
[36:20.300 --> 36:22.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: And it would be nice if a few other agencies had to do that, too.
[36:23.200 --> 36:27.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's also really useful for explaining hacking techniques to managers.
[36:27.780 --> 36:29.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: Because people are really familiar with the postal system.
[36:30.060 --> 36:31.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: They know how to use it.
[36:32.140 --> 36:37.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: And there's a lot of ways you can abuse it that are similar to techniques we might use in the computer world.
[36:37.220 --> 36:39.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: But you don't have to be a computer person to understand it.
[36:40.680 --> 36:44.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: So let's start off by looking at how a letter gets from point A to point B.
[36:44.500 --> 36:48.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: And when you drop your letter off in the mail, one of the first things that happens is it gets oriented and canceled.
[36:49.860 --> 36:51.280]  [SPEAKER_18]: Stamps glow under ultraviolet B.
[36:51.420 --> 36:53.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: This is not black light, quote-unquote.
[36:53.820 --> 36:55.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's a shorter wavelength, higher energy.
[36:56.720 --> 37:00.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: But it allows the computing equipment to see which side of the envelope is the address side.
[37:00.940 --> 37:02.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: And also which direction to turn it.
[37:03.460 --> 37:06.280]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now if you're going to play with this, remember that UV will burn your retinas.
[37:06.280 --> 37:08.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: You'll get a sunburn in your eye and it doesn't really heal.
[37:08.780 --> 37:09.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: So wear eye protection.
[37:10.700 --> 37:15.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: Just the like cheap $2 safety glasses from Home Depot leave a nice shadow where it blocks pretty much all of the UV.
[37:17.000 --> 37:18.780]  [SPEAKER_18]: And most sunglasses do as well.
[37:18.920 --> 37:19.780]  [SPEAKER_18]: So please don't hurt yourself.
[37:21.060 --> 37:24.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: So the first... the next thing that happens is they take a picture of your envelope.
[37:24.920 --> 37:27.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: And then they spray an orange barcode on the back.
[37:27.300 --> 37:30.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's a fluorescent orange and it doesn't show up very well on projectors.
[37:30.260 --> 37:34.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: But it uses different space instead of tall and short in order to encode zeros and ones.
[37:35.580 --> 37:42.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the reason they take a picture of your envelope is so they can run the address through an OCR system and try to figure out what the whole address is, including the ZIP Code.
[37:42.780 --> 37:53.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: And if they can't figure it out, like if you have a doctor's handwriting, they send the images to Singapore and they have armies of people working for, I don't know, probably like 70 cents an hour typing in addresses.
[37:54.140 --> 37:58.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now you might wonder why do we need the entire address, not just the ZIP Code.
[37:58.360 --> 38:00.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the reason is that they will take that and they'll apply forwarding.
[38:00.960 --> 38:07.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, let's say I'm here in New York and I mail my friend in San Francisco a letter, but he's actually moved to Miami.
[38:07.700 --> 38:10.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: Their computer will go, oh, we have a forwarding order for this person.
[38:11.140 --> 38:14.280]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's no reason to truck this to California and then back again.
[38:14.300 --> 38:15.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: We'll just send it straight to Miami.
[38:16.340 --> 38:17.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: So they save a lot of money.
[38:17.800 --> 38:18.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that's part of...
[38:18.880 --> 38:22.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, even though postage rates keep going up, it's actually going down when you look at the inflation rate.
[38:22.940 --> 38:31.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, a lot of these automations and additional efficiencies in the postal stream have helped it remain really competitive.
[38:32.620 --> 38:36.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, after we figured out where it's going, we apply carrier pre-sorting.
[38:36.560 --> 38:40.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the post office has this huge database of all the addresses that they deliver to.
[38:40.380 --> 38:44.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: And this is what they use to apply those extra four digits to the end of your barcode.
[38:44.780 --> 38:47.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: They also add two more digits called the delivery point code.
[38:47.880 --> 38:51.980]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that's the actual stop number that the mail truck makes as it's driving down the street.
[38:52.420 --> 39:01.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: So the computer system, after it sprays that barcode on, uses it to route the mail and sort the mail, all the way down to the point where the mailman just opens the box, grabs the next bundle and shoves it in.
[39:01.740 --> 39:03.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: And it doesn't have to do a lot of manual sorting.
[39:05.320 --> 39:10.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: The ZIP4 coding scheme, if you look at it carefully, it's broken up into different sides of the street.
[39:11.080 --> 39:12.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's how we get odd and even number ranges.
[39:13.660 --> 39:18.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: This particular street that we drew a sample of is a cul-de-sac, but it's intersected by another street.
[39:18.300 --> 39:21.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: So it changes about halfway through where that intersection is.
[39:21.560 --> 39:23.640]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think the mail truck takes a right-hand turn.
[39:24.220 --> 39:32.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: And it's also interesting that whoever's at 815 is at the end of the cul-de-sac, and he has his own ZIP4 code.
[39:34.980 --> 39:38.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: And there's a lot of addresses like this, particularly post office boxes.
[39:39.240 --> 39:44.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: But it gets interesting because you can just write ZIP4 on an envelope, and it will get delivered.
[39:47.950 --> 40:02.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, I suspect that in the future, the post office will come up with this really brainiac idea that they can just hand out numbers that have nothing to do with ZIP, and that you'll register your physical address so that when you move, you don't actually have to change your address with all your magazine subscriptions and all your junk mail.
[40:02.390 --> 40:07.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: You can just tell the post office, hey, I'm number 528675382119 and I've changed addresses.
[40:09.010 --> 40:13.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, somebody suggested social security number, but businesses don't have social security numbers, and yeah, that would be a bad idea.
[40:15.130 --> 40:18.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, it would be neat if you could have multiple numbers as well that point to the same person.
[40:19.010 --> 40:24.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: But anyway, this begs the question that, well, what would happen if I just put the ZIP code, just put the barcode on an envelope and mail it?
[40:24.950 --> 40:28.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the answer is, it doesn't quite work that well, but almost.
[40:33.470 --> 40:35.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's the same post office box that had various addressing problems.
[40:35.890 --> 40:44.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: And we got back this exact same stamp with the broken E and broken R and the slightly smudged upper finger and the gunk stuck in the E.
[40:44.290 --> 40:48.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: So we know that this envelope made it all the way to the destination post office box.
[40:48.350 --> 40:55.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I think what happened was that the postal clerk who's putting it in the cubicles couldn't figure out which cubicle it went in, and so he gave it the finger and sent it back.
[40:58.010 --> 41:02.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, but these barcodes are just, you know, read by the computer and it doesn't think anything of it.
[41:02.770 --> 41:05.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: This is our first opportunity to mess with the system.
[41:07.110 --> 41:13.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: So I was in Baltimore, as you can see by the post office, the postmark at the top, and we sent this letter to Atlanta.
[41:13.810 --> 41:17.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: But we used the tall and short PostNet code for HILO Hawaii.
[41:18.770 --> 41:25.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: And when we do these, we always send a control envelope at the same time that's perfectly addressed normally so we can judge how much delay there is in the process.
[41:25.810 --> 41:27.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: This added two weeks to the delivery time.
[41:29.490 --> 41:36.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: And it's also nice that they postmarked it again when they finally figured it out and blacked out the barcode so that their machine wouldn't keep sending it back to Hawaii.
[41:38.610 --> 41:39.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: So this...
[41:39.410 --> 41:48.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: In addition to this being an input validation issue, because so many things rely on the post office or use the post office as a benchmark, this allows you to hack other things.
[41:48.690 --> 41:53.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, I pay all my taxes electronically, so if there's any IRS agents in the office, I've never done this.
[41:53.030 --> 42:06.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: But since your tax payment only has to be postmarked by April 15th, not necessarily received, if somebody sent their payment to the Philadelphia office but they coded it with, I don't know, one of those fishing villages in Alaska that only gets mail once a month,
[42:07.290 --> 42:08.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: your check just got floated.
[42:10.530 --> 42:14.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: So there's a lot of attacks like that where you can use the post office to do other things.
[42:15.790 --> 42:25.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that's an excerpt from the postal hacking talk from The Last Hope done by CypherGhost that took place here in New York City back in 2008.
[42:25.710 --> 42:33.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: One of 20 such talks about hacking, various forms of hacking, that you will get for a pledge of $75.
[42:34.250 --> 42:36.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: One of 40 if you pledge $125.
[42:38.130 --> 42:38.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: Anybody...
[42:38.610 --> 42:40.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bernie, did you go to that talk, the postal hacking talk?
[42:40.690 --> 42:41.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: I did.
[42:41.190 --> 42:42.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's actually one of my favorites.
[42:42.470 --> 42:44.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: I enjoyed that.
[42:44.270 --> 42:47.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, I've played that back a couple of times and listened to it.
[42:47.650 --> 42:49.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I've never actually...
[42:49.790 --> 42:54.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: I saw part of it in that, you know, it's when volunteer works, so I never actually saw the whole thing.
[42:54.410 --> 42:59.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, these videos that we're offering on DVD, and you don't have to actually watch them.
[42:59.310 --> 43:01.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can just listen to the audio in the background while you're doing something out.
[43:02.010 --> 43:03.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's an amazing value.
[43:03.670 --> 43:13.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're offering these talks from various hope conferences, 20 of them, 20 DVDs for $75, 40 DVDs for what?
[43:13.370 --> 43:13.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: $125?
[43:14.270 --> 43:14.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's correct.
[43:15.290 --> 43:22.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's like $3 and change for a whole DVD of amazing educational and intriguing programming.
[43:22.750 --> 43:26.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: I urge our listeners to call 212-209-2950.
[43:26.350 --> 43:27.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's an incredible information value.
[43:27.990 --> 43:34.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: And most importantly, you're supporting WBA-IFM, which are the only kind of stations that are going to bring you this kind of information.
[43:34.110 --> 43:42.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it also speaks to the diversity in the hacker community that we talk about all kinds of different subject material.
[43:42.850 --> 43:46.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: The post office is certainly something that we all come in contact with quite a bit.
[43:47.110 --> 43:48.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Isn't it nice to know how it works?
[43:48.710 --> 43:53.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is it nice to experiment and play around and see what happens if you do certain things?
[43:54.150 --> 43:57.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: One thing, actually, somebody I know suggested this a number of years ago.
[43:57.670 --> 43:59.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: I've never actually done it myself, but I'd love to try it.
[44:00.450 --> 44:04.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's something called Postman's Choice, where you have an index card.
[44:04.430 --> 44:08.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: And you basically stick a stamp on it, and you write an address.
[44:08.510 --> 44:11.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: And then you flip it over and do the exact same thing on the other side.
[44:11.170 --> 44:13.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: And you have one in California, one in New York.
[44:13.270 --> 44:17.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: And you basically drop it in the mailbox, and you see which it finally winds up in.
[44:17.610 --> 44:20.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's going to hit all kinds of machines that are going to route it in one direction.
[44:20.930 --> 44:23.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: Then it's going to flip over, hit another machine, go in a different direction.
[44:23.730 --> 44:25.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: Eventually, it's going to wind up someplace.
[44:26.450 --> 44:33.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: And by the time it does that, it will have been through so many different postal sorting machines that who knows what it'll look like.
[44:34.070 --> 44:36.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: Something I'd like to try and see what actually happens.
[44:36.410 --> 44:37.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's what hackers do.
[44:38.030 --> 44:38.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, sorry.
[44:39.450 --> 44:41.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Isn't some of the routing of the...
[44:41.830 --> 44:42.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm sorry.
[44:42.490 --> 44:43.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: None of the microphones seem to work.
[44:43.810 --> 44:44.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: Go ahead.
[44:44.350 --> 44:50.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: Isn't some of the routing of the mail done with OCR these days where they actually recognize the writing on the envelope?
[44:50.530 --> 44:53.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but if the writing is on two sides of a card, what does it do then?
[44:54.010 --> 44:54.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[44:54.830 --> 44:57.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or if it ends up somehow getting two barcodes.
[44:57.490 --> 44:57.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[44:58.230 --> 44:59.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bernie, it sounds like something we should try, right?
[45:00.210 --> 45:03.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but I was thinking that you get me thinking like a hacker on this.
[45:03.710 --> 45:04.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Why not just get a box?
[45:04.910 --> 45:09.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, a regular box that has six sides on it and put a different address.
[45:09.590 --> 45:10.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, my God.
[45:10.110 --> 45:14.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: On each side of the box and see where that goes.
[45:14.590 --> 45:21.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, it's funny because we were going through a box actually a couple of days ago and we saw somebody else's address on it, right, Carl?
[45:21.430 --> 45:27.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: We were looking at some package that we got and all of a sudden it was from somebody else to somebody else and we were like, how did we get this?
[45:27.570 --> 45:34.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it turns out sometimes when you ship things via FedEx or UPS, they don't take the old label off and I don't know how they know which one they're supposed to send to.
[45:34.470 --> 45:34.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[45:34.730 --> 45:36.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: They have some kind of a system going there.
[45:36.130 --> 45:37.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: So it works that way sometimes.
[45:38.550 --> 45:41.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: We were able to see where it was distributed to as well.
[45:41.190 --> 45:42.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: So it was kind of interesting.
[45:42.330 --> 45:42.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[45:43.150 --> 45:44.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: That mic doesn't work so stop using it.
[45:44.570 --> 45:45.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'm going to put it away now.
[45:45.890 --> 45:46.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[45:46.650 --> 45:52.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, they probably at least with UPS, right, with the tracking number, they probably expire it when it's not valid anymore.
[46:07.310 --> 46:07.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh-huh.
[46:08.850 --> 46:10.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: And keep this place going.
[46:10.290 --> 46:12.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: So we'll be here to share information for many years to come.
[46:12.610 --> 46:14.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950.
[46:14.490 --> 46:16.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: So you said you had 40 DVDs for $125?
[46:17.390 --> 46:18.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can't get your head around that.
[46:18.790 --> 46:19.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's a lot.
[46:19.250 --> 46:19.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's a lot.
[46:19.690 --> 46:20.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's a lot of DVDs.
[46:20.350 --> 46:22.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, it's shocking how many there are.
[46:22.070 --> 46:25.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: And so you could get that and the WikiLeaks SunDrive.
[46:25.850 --> 46:27.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: That would be what, $225?
[46:27.950 --> 46:30.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: For a pledge of $225, you can get everything we're offering tonight.
[46:30.750 --> 46:32.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, and that is a great deal.
[46:32.870 --> 46:35.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: That will keep you occupied for a year.
[46:35.590 --> 46:36.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: At least.
[46:36.230 --> 46:37.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: At least.
[46:37.890 --> 46:40.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: So let's get these calls coming in.
[46:40.230 --> 46:42.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know if this program is working, but I do see calls coming in.
[46:43.790 --> 46:47.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we're only on for another 13 minutes or so.
[46:47.650 --> 46:58.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: But I wanted to play an excerpt from something else too while we still have some time just to show the wide variety of things we talk about in the hacker world, one of which is graffiti.
[46:58.350 --> 47:03.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is an excerpt from 2006, our friends from the Graffiti Research Lab.
[47:05.950 --> 47:07.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, this is one we get a lot.
[47:07.650 --> 47:16.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's probably fairly relevant in that, you know, the materials that we do, you know, use do cost more money than, say, a can of spray paint that someone, you know, stole.
[47:17.070 --> 47:18.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can also steal LEDs too.
[47:19.050 --> 47:20.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Spray paint is very expensive these days.
[47:20.930 --> 47:23.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not quite that big a discrepancy.
[47:24.070 --> 47:25.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, no, we do...
[47:26.530 --> 47:28.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I guess that's a good question.
[47:28.450 --> 47:31.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: What was the cost of covering the cube?
[47:31.510 --> 47:32.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: The cost of covering the cube?
[47:33.110 --> 47:33.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's...
[47:33.410 --> 47:34.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're like the other front, but it's...
[47:34.630 --> 47:39.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Somewhere between 25 to 50 cents per LED throw, depending on how many we buy.
[47:40.050 --> 47:43.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, something like the cube where there were 600, you know, you guys can do the math.
[47:43.690 --> 47:44.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not...
[47:44.110 --> 47:50.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's certainly not as expensive as the shows that the art non-profit we work for puts on, you know?
[47:50.830 --> 47:51.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not as...
[47:51.690 --> 47:52.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, you got funded then?
[47:52.590 --> 47:54.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Like, were you getting money to do that?
[47:54.790 --> 47:55.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: We are getting money.
[47:55.810 --> 48:00.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're funded by a number of sort of very prestigious art grants to do this.
[48:02.650 --> 48:04.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: MacArthur Foundation and whatnot.
[48:04.610 --> 48:05.410]  Do people do it?
[48:05.650 --> 48:06.450]  A lot of you do it.
[48:06.650 --> 48:07.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: They do.
[48:07.430 --> 48:14.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, the process for the first throwy video, I think, laid out what would happen for all the future ones in that, you know, we go, we do this.
[48:14.730 --> 48:19.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, we're up there throwing these throwies on the building, you know, pretty lame, whatever.
[48:20.450 --> 48:25.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then a group of people who are totally unassociated with us come up and they immediately get it.
[48:25.370 --> 48:30.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: I like that young gentleman who ran up and, you know, did the, like, two-foot vertical grab of those throwies.
[48:30.770 --> 48:34.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right before that, he had turned to me and said, you guys are bombing this, yo.
[48:35.010 --> 48:36.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then he went and did it.
[48:36.150 --> 48:37.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: So he got it right away.
[48:38.590 --> 48:40.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: So that's actually the more cool part.
[48:40.290 --> 48:42.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: But so those guys don't actually, they're not, like, on our agenda.
[48:43.370 --> 48:46.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, they actually are more interested in kind of getting something for themselves.
[48:46.330 --> 48:50.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: So they go out and they grab them and they throw them back a few times and they're like, I'm just going to take as many as I can.
[48:51.290 --> 49:01.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's cool, too, because it's a bit like the subway system hacks that graffiti artists did in the 70s and 80s and that they would use the subway to transport their, you know, giant paintings all over the city.
[49:02.050 --> 49:07.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: So they would get the whole, you know, all five boroughs using just, you know, one train car.
[49:08.870 --> 49:11.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we've also had the joy to work with a lot of kids.
[49:11.530 --> 49:13.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, kids are great because they're all anarchists.
[49:15.830 --> 49:16.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: None of them vote.
[49:21.210 --> 49:38.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, and I thought this was a very sort of astute comment and not only did they, sort of predict, you know, this, the youth of today, their involvement in the graffiti tomorrow, but they also predicted that they would eventually sell out and allow their work to just be sort of co-opted into the similitude of art.
[49:40.170 --> 49:44.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, so you saw a lot of the stuff that we do, we're not particularly hardcore.
[49:44.970 --> 49:46.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're pretty soft core guys.
[49:47.030 --> 49:49.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: And people don't really take a lot of our stuff very hardcore.
[49:50.230 --> 49:54.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: They actually tend to go in the opposite direction as hard as they can.
[49:54.710 --> 50:01.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: So here's a site, Parent Hacks, where people have figured out that they can use throwies to mark their, like, soccer mom caravan.
[50:02.750 --> 50:08.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if we were really worried about looking like putzes, like, this would be really hurtful for us.
[50:10.010 --> 50:10.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: But we're not.
[50:10.850 --> 50:11.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's totally cool.
[50:11.770 --> 50:16.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, it's really pretty cool that people can find other ways to use it.
[50:18.890 --> 50:22.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, not everything that other people have done has made us sort of happy.
[50:23.830 --> 50:37.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sometimes we feel like Eric from Instructables said that we have a lot of vanilla ice nemesises, nemesis, who are out there trying to take our projects in a very sort of soft and fluffy direction.
[50:38.190 --> 50:41.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: But then again, when they do it, they tend to innovate and they improve it.
[50:42.510 --> 50:57.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Fridge Lights, who refuses to attribute his electrograph to our sort of work that we did preceding him because I got in an argument with him in a comment thread, has actually brought a lot of innovations to the electrograph.
[50:57.230 --> 50:58.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: He uses AC power.
[50:58.530 --> 50:59.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: He made a kind of different setup.
[51:00.310 --> 51:05.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: The only thing that sucks is that now I have to ask, people ask me, like the guys from Solar Robotics, oh, that's awesome.
[51:05.930 --> 51:07.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: You guys do these murals.
[51:08.010 --> 51:11.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's cool that you guys have learned from Fridge Lights, how to make them.
[51:12.070 --> 51:14.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, but either way, we suck it up.
[51:14.830 --> 51:22.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Certainly, there's other people that are out there who are interested in our, you know, little games and fun for their own commercial game.
[51:22.590 --> 51:24.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we actually buy LEDs from this company.
[51:24.670 --> 51:25.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're really nice dudes.
[51:25.970 --> 51:28.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're really like with it kind of guys.
[51:28.370 --> 51:40.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: They actually suggested they would give the 2600 staff 10,000 throwies if someone could get them root server error log access.
[51:40.930 --> 51:42.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: I really don't know what they were asking.
[51:43.210 --> 51:50.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: I forwarded it on to a manual, but there's like some promise of a lot of throwies, I think, if you could do something really illegal for this Chinese company.
[51:52.830 --> 51:53.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is close to home.
[51:54.010 --> 51:55.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: These guys are just in New Jersey.
[51:55.970 --> 51:57.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: We've done a, you know, who is?
[51:57.790 --> 52:01.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is the, you know, extent of our digital deduction skills.
[52:01.250 --> 52:02.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[52:02.690 --> 52:03.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's about enough of that there.
[52:04.270 --> 52:07.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: This goes to show the crazy antics that go on in the hacker community.
[52:07.810 --> 52:13.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that was James Parley from the Graffiti Research Labs talking at Hope No.
[52:13.610 --> 52:14.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: 6 in 2006.
[52:15.110 --> 52:18.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: One of 20 DVDs for a pledge of $75 that you will get.
[52:18.590 --> 52:21.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: One of 40 that you'll get for $125.
[52:21.610 --> 52:23.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950.
[52:23.670 --> 52:27.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: But of course, we also have our special WikiLeaks thumb drive.
[52:28.070 --> 52:35.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: All the documents that were released in 2010 and made headlines all around the world will come straight to you.
[52:35.490 --> 52:36.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: You don't have to connect to anything.
[52:36.550 --> 52:41.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: You don't have to risk the feds knocking on your door because you connected to WikiLeaks.
[52:41.650 --> 52:45.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: Not that that would happen, but a lot of people think it might.
[52:45.630 --> 52:46.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: It could, I guess.
[52:46.690 --> 52:52.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: I guess it's possible that one day we could live in a society where you get your door kicked in because you connected to the wrong website.
[52:52.670 --> 52:53.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: What do you think, Walter?
[52:53.670 --> 52:54.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you're in the military, you will.
[52:54.990 --> 52:55.690]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you're in the military?
[52:55.830 --> 52:58.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, yeah, I'm not sure we should send this to people in the military either.
[52:58.390 --> 52:58.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's already blocked.
[52:59.150 --> 53:09.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, but, you know, if your net surfing abilities are blocked from going to controversial places like WikiLeaks, well, the postal service isn't blocked.
[53:09.090 --> 53:17.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: So you'll be able to get this in the mail at least and put it on your computer and read to your heart's content, copy it, spread it around, whatever strikes you fancy.
[53:17.290 --> 53:18.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950.
[53:19.210 --> 53:22.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: Of course, if you're in the military, you might already have access to these documents anyway.
[53:22.290 --> 53:23.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: And in that case, send them to us.
[53:23.630 --> 53:25.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: A lot of people in the military did have access to these documents.
[53:25.990 --> 53:26.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's for sure.
[53:27.150 --> 53:30.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that's how so many people found out about it in the first place.
[53:30.490 --> 53:32.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: But now we found out about it.
[53:32.290 --> 53:34.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now individual citizens know.
[53:34.390 --> 53:36.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that's kind of important that we have that information.
[53:37.930 --> 53:39.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950.
[53:39.850 --> 53:41.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're kind of cut off from the tally room.
[53:41.830 --> 53:43.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: The program isn't working properly.
[53:43.570 --> 53:45.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: Even our camera wasn't working properly for a while.
[53:45.190 --> 53:47.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: So we think we're doing well, but we're not sure.
[53:48.430 --> 53:58.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: So please, if you want to help out, if you want to get these amazing items, if you just want to preserve freedom of speech and alternative voices, give a call now.
[53:58.690 --> 54:00.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950.
[54:00.930 --> 54:03.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bernie, I know you're always great at getting those calls to come in.
[54:04.470 --> 54:05.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, yes.
[54:05.390 --> 54:08.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if it's due to me or people just wanting to make me shut up.
[54:08.750 --> 54:18.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I can't recall when we offered such a combination of information treasure troves on one fundraising show.
[54:18.250 --> 54:28.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Two different DVD packages of amazing hope conferences and the entire WikiLeaks archive over the past year or so of documents.
[54:29.330 --> 54:31.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's an amazing value.
[54:31.750 --> 54:33.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever you can afford.
[54:33.330 --> 54:43.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: What's most important is not the premiums, but you support this radio station, which is the only station I know that has no commercials and will bring you amazing information.
[54:43.450 --> 54:44.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're just not going to get anywhere else.
[54:45.070 --> 54:47.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-209-2950.
[54:48.290 --> 54:49.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Please call and support this station.
[54:49.970 --> 54:50.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's important.
[54:50.550 --> 54:50.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks.
[54:51.190 --> 54:52.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, before I get into the details...
[54:52.850 --> 55:01.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, and this is someone who just broke in from The Last Hope, I believe, talking about warrantless searches at borders of laptops and things like that.
[55:01.150 --> 55:01.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: Let's listen for a moment.
[55:02.230 --> 55:10.090]  [SPEAKER_17]: I was on vacation and unfortunately I had to cut my trip early because I had death in my immediate family.
[55:10.350 --> 55:12.870]  [SPEAKER_17]: And so I flew back to the United States.
[55:12.870 --> 55:19.170]  [SPEAKER_17]: I was flying into LAX and me and my sister were randomly selected for search at the border.
[55:20.410 --> 55:23.290]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, you know, needless to say, I was kind of in a bad mood.
[55:24.170 --> 55:26.230]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, you know, I've got this...
[55:26.230 --> 55:29.850]  [SPEAKER_17]: These people have decided to go through my stuff and they're going through my bag, right?
[55:30.010 --> 55:37.150]  [SPEAKER_17]: And they hold up every single object in the bag, every pair of underwear, every T-shirt, and they hold it up and they say, is this yours?
[55:37.590 --> 55:38.590]  [SPEAKER_17]: Is this yours?
[55:38.870 --> 55:39.910]  [SPEAKER_17]: Is this yours?
[55:40.150 --> 55:41.090]  [SPEAKER_17]: Is this yours?
[55:41.430 --> 55:52.870]  [SPEAKER_17]: And the way that that questioning worked kind of freaked me out because you get lulled into this sort of automatic response after the 20th or 30th piece of clothing is held up.
[55:52.990 --> 55:54.710]  [SPEAKER_17]: You just kind of say, yeah, it's mine.
[55:55.110 --> 55:56.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, it's mine.
[55:56.210 --> 55:58.070]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, it's mine without paying attention.
[55:58.350 --> 56:06.070]  [SPEAKER_17]: And so, you know, if they wanted to grab something under the table and show it to you, you might say, yeah, it's mine without really looking at it first.
[56:06.530 --> 56:07.950]  [SPEAKER_17]: And that kind of bothered me.
[56:08.310 --> 56:17.190]  [SPEAKER_17]: Why are they using this sort of a system of questioning that seems particularly designed to elicit an incorrect or false confession?
[56:17.450 --> 56:22.490]  [SPEAKER_17]: So I was kind of pissed off and I'm thinking, I'm an American citizen.
[56:22.490 --> 56:23.410]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm on U.S. soil.
[56:23.990 --> 56:24.670]  [SPEAKER_17]: This is the U.S. government that's searching...
[56:25.730 --> 56:34.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, we're going to have to fade this down because we're out of time, but this is a talk by Decius took place at the last hope that warrantless searches of laptops at U.S. borders.
[56:35.090 --> 56:36.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: All kinds of fascinating things.
[56:36.530 --> 56:39.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's one of 40 DVDs for a pledge of $125.
[56:39.670 --> 56:41.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: One of 20 for a pledge of $75.
[56:41.730 --> 56:43.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950.
[56:44.130 --> 56:49.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: Call in to get WikiLeaks in all its glory on a thumb drive.
[56:49.850 --> 56:54.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950 for a pledge of $100.
[56:54.390 --> 56:56.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: 212-209-2950.
[56:56.530 --> 57:03.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: I want to thank everybody who's called in so far and has supported us for this entire fundraiser that's been taking place.
[57:03.770 --> 57:04.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: We won't be here next week.
[57:04.810 --> 57:06.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: We'll be here in two weeks.
[57:06.830 --> 57:10.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: But again, the phone number 212-209-2950.
[57:11.170 --> 57:13.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: Write to us, oth@2600.com.
[57:13.870 --> 57:14.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: We'll see you in two weeks.
[57:14.930 --> 57:15.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good night.