Off The Hook - 2011-08-17

[00:00.000 --> 00:12.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: With reps of four groups currently working in New York City against the harassment of women by men in public space, Girls for Gender Equity, Hollaback, the Street Harassment Project, the new African Women's Caucus of the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement,
[00:12.740 --> 00:21.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: they'll discuss their street harassment experiences, the different strategies being developed by each group, their visions of freedom for women in a world without harassment.
[00:21.320 --> 00:25.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's August 17th, 9 to 11 p.m., the Street Harassment Summit.
[00:25.240 --> 00:26.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: These are our streets, too.
[00:32.670 --> 00:35.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the time is just about 7 p.m.
[00:35.530 --> 00:39.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're listening to WBAI New York, 99.5 FM.
[00:39.790 --> 00:43.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it is time for another exciting edition of Off The Hook.
[00:43.670 --> 00:44.430]  [SPEAKER_00]: Without harassment.
[00:44.890 --> 00:46.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's August 17th.
[00:46.830 --> 00:47.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's try that again.
[00:56.070 --> 00:58.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the time is just about 7 p.m.
[02:09.300 --> 02:10.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: And a very good evening.
[02:10.880 --> 02:12.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: The show is Off The Hook.
[02:12.300 --> 02:12.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Rob T.
[02:12.880 --> 02:13.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Firefly here with you.
[02:14.360 --> 02:16.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: And a bit of a full studio.
[02:16.320 --> 02:18.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: I am joined by Voltaire.
[02:18.600 --> 02:20.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello, hello, hello.
[02:20.320 --> 02:21.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: And Junce is here.
[02:21.480 --> 02:21.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello.
[02:22.920 --> 02:24.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, actually I was lying.
[02:24.800 --> 02:25.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: The studio isn't that full.
[02:26.000 --> 02:27.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I should have people on the phone now.
[02:28.360 --> 02:29.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, can you guys hear me?
[02:29.740 --> 02:30.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: We also have Jim.
[02:31.920 --> 02:32.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[02:33.440 --> 02:33.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[02:34.920 --> 02:35.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello.
[02:35.840 --> 02:36.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hey, there you are.
[02:37.120 --> 02:37.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm here.
[02:37.740 --> 02:38.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now I can...
[02:38.460 --> 02:39.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello?
[02:39.300 --> 02:40.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't hear the theme music.
[02:40.420 --> 02:41.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is that Bernie S?
[02:41.460 --> 02:41.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: I hear.
[02:42.380 --> 02:44.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Bernie S is here, but I do not hear the theme music.
[02:45.260 --> 02:46.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, there is no theme music.
[02:46.680 --> 02:47.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not anymore.
[02:47.260 --> 02:47.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, okay.
[02:48.540 --> 02:49.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's in the past.
[02:49.380 --> 02:49.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's move on.
[02:50.200 --> 02:50.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, okay.
[02:50.860 --> 02:52.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, we've also got Mike on the line.
[02:53.580 --> 02:53.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello.
[02:54.160 --> 02:54.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: What's new?
[02:55.000 --> 02:59.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, not much is new, and I am going to attempt to contact our friend Emmanuel via Skype.
[02:59.940 --> 03:00.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's see how this works.
[03:02.000 --> 03:03.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: This should be very exciting.
[03:03.860 --> 03:04.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is that Bernie S?
[03:04.900 --> 03:05.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: I hear.
[03:05.560 --> 03:08.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, Bernie S is here, but I do not hear the theme music.
[03:08.840 --> 03:10.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, there is no theme music.
[03:10.200 --> 03:10.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not anymore.
[03:10.720 --> 03:10.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, okay.
[03:11.980 --> 03:12.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's in the past.
[03:12.840 --> 03:13.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's move on.
[03:13.520 --> 03:14.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, okay.
[03:14.260 --> 03:16.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, we've also got Mike on the line.
[03:16.620 --> 03:18.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, I'm not sure why this is, but...
[03:18.960 --> 03:19.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not much is new.
[03:19.420 --> 03:19.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Are you there, Emmanuel?
[03:20.120 --> 03:21.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: I am going to attempt to contact Emmanuel.
[03:21.760 --> 03:22.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I'm here.
[03:22.480 --> 03:23.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Can you hear me?
[03:23.120 --> 03:24.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, I can hear you.
[03:24.680 --> 03:26.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, we're getting some strange...
[03:26.820 --> 03:27.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'll see you, too.
[03:28.000 --> 03:29.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, can you hear us both?
[03:29.500 --> 03:29.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Bye.
[03:30.140 --> 03:31.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, we can hear both of you.
[03:31.620 --> 03:37.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we can also hear ourselves in the past, because apparently something is going on in here, which I'm, of which I'm not aware.
[03:37.680 --> 03:39.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, we've also got Mike on the line.
[03:39.200 --> 03:40.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, uh, let's just roll with it.
[03:40.720 --> 03:42.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not sure why this is, but hello.
[03:42.360 --> 03:42.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, are you there, man?
[03:42.920 --> 03:44.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think we should attest to this before we went on the air.
[03:44.920 --> 03:45.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: We should have.
[03:45.680 --> 03:45.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I'm here.
[03:45.980 --> 03:46.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Can you hear me?
[03:46.740 --> 03:47.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, I can hear you.
[03:49.180 --> 03:50.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm going to get really obnoxious.
[03:50.840 --> 03:52.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is sounding like a fuller studio than it is.
[03:53.020 --> 03:57.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, uh, okay, we've got someone, uh, going off to see what's going on on the, uh, technical end.
[03:58.000 --> 04:00.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because apparently something is going on in here, which I'm not aware.
[04:01.920 --> 04:03.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, uh...
[04:03.140 --> 04:03.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello, Rob.
[04:04.180 --> 04:04.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello, Bernie S.
[04:05.200 --> 04:07.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, let's start with you, uh, Bernie.
[04:07.080 --> 04:07.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Where are you?
[04:08.220 --> 04:09.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm calling from Kent, Belgium.
[04:10.300 --> 04:10.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, I can hear you.
[04:10.900 --> 04:13.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Home of the hackerspace called White Space.
[04:14.260 --> 04:15.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: And this is a charming town.
[04:16.480 --> 04:18.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, this is a wonderful hackerspace.
[04:19.120 --> 04:23.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm here with, uh, a couple of, uh, friends I've met at, uh, at camp.
[04:23.580 --> 04:26.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, MP, Sandblender, and Jalslaw.
[04:27.700 --> 04:29.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, we're having a good time here.
[04:29.360 --> 04:30.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's start with you, uh, Bernie.
[04:30.180 --> 04:30.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's 1 a.m.
[04:31.480 --> 04:31.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Awesome.
[04:32.300 --> 04:35.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, okay, um, and Mike, you're on the line.
[04:35.740 --> 04:36.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Where are you at?
[04:36.880 --> 04:44.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm in, uh, in Reykjavik, the capital of Iceland, where it's, uh, the past 11, and it's still not quite yet fully dark.
[04:45.480 --> 04:47.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I don't think there's a hackerspace here.
[04:47.700 --> 04:49.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: If there is, someone needs to tell me about it soon.
[04:50.360 --> 04:50.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Awesome.
[04:50.960 --> 04:53.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, Emmanuel and Kyle, where are you guys?
[04:53.800 --> 04:54.280]  It's 1 a.m.
[04:54.900 --> 04:57.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, we're in, uh, Warsaw, Poland.
[04:57.260 --> 04:59.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, um, and Mike, you're on the line.
[04:59.180 --> 04:59.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Where are you at?
[05:00.320 --> 05:07.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm in, uh, in Reykjavik, the capital of Iceland, where it's, uh, the past 11, and still not quite yet fully dark.
[05:08.500 --> 05:11.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I don't think there's a hackerspace here.
[05:11.220 --> 05:12.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: If there is, someone needs to tell me about it soon.
[05:13.320 --> 05:26.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Guys, you know, we have a lot of vodka here in Warsaw, and I don't know how much of this is because of that, and how much of this is because of Skype, or whatever it is we're using right now, but, boy, I sure hope it gets nice and clear soon.
[05:28.900 --> 05:34.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, Emmanuel, are you using Skype to call in, using Skype out, or are you using the Skype to Skype connection?
[05:34.820 --> 05:37.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I don't know how much of this is because of that.
[05:37.840 --> 05:41.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's Skype to Skype, and apparently, uh, there's one too many Skypes here.
[05:42.120 --> 05:49.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but the Skype out I'm using through a phone line is not going to cause any echo, but your Skype to Skype connection is probably causing you echo.
[05:49.920 --> 05:52.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Are you using Skype out, or are you using the Skype to Skype connection?
[05:52.920 --> 05:55.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I don't know how much of this is because of that.
[05:55.880 --> 05:59.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's Skype to Skype, and apparently, uh, there's one too many Skypes here.
[05:59.800 --> 06:07.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but the Skype-out I'm using to your phone line is not going to cause any echo, but your Skype-to-Skype connection is probably causing the echo.
[06:09.940 --> 06:15.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is a fascinating technical experiment, but it needs to be fixed, I think.
[06:16.420 --> 06:17.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here's what I'm going to do.
[06:17.740 --> 06:18.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can everybody hear me?
[06:19.040 --> 06:19.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, indeed.
[06:20.220 --> 06:20.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[06:20.740 --> 06:25.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: What I'm going to do is I'm going to reprogram our toll-free number to call us here in Warsaw.
[06:25.580 --> 06:26.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[06:26.100 --> 06:26.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay?
[06:26.380 --> 06:26.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay?
[06:27.340 --> 06:29.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what I'd like you to do...
[06:29.560 --> 06:30.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'm going to send you a message.
[06:31.080 --> 06:34.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can still read my Skype messages on the screen, right?
[06:34.280 --> 06:34.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, indeed.
[06:35.280 --> 06:40.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, so I'll tell you what to say and how to access us and when this thing is reprogrammed.
[06:40.880 --> 06:46.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to disconnect our wonderful connection here, and we'll come back on the telephone in a few minutes.
[06:47.660 --> 06:49.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'm going to send you a message.
[06:49.160 --> 06:49.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[06:49.740 --> 06:52.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: And in that case, I think we're going to say goodnight to Mike.
[06:53.380 --> 06:54.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, so I'll tell you what to say.
[06:54.920 --> 06:56.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we'll see what happens.
[06:56.380 --> 06:59.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, you don't have to say goodnight to Mike.
[06:59.220 --> 07:02.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can still remain connected, as long as you don't have to connect to him again.
[07:03.240 --> 07:04.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we'll come back on the telephone in a few minutes.
[07:04.580 --> 07:05.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[07:05.160 --> 07:06.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm disconnecting now.
[07:06.260 --> 07:06.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Goodbye.
[07:06.780 --> 07:07.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Goodbye.
[07:07.360 --> 07:07.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[07:07.860 --> 07:10.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: And in that case, I think we're going to say goodnight to Mike.
[07:11.080 --> 07:11.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that didn't help.
[07:12.780 --> 07:19.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, that helped because I could shut the audio off on this desktop workstation I have here that Skype was running on.
[07:19.980 --> 07:22.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: So for some reason, the audio is doubling back through that.
[07:24.160 --> 07:25.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's exciting.
[07:25.620 --> 07:25.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[07:26.280 --> 07:26.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[07:26.720 --> 07:32.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I'm getting a confirming nod from technical staff here.
[07:32.220 --> 07:33.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: So that is cool.
[07:33.260 --> 07:38.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: So we've learned that we can't use a Skype-to-Skype connection without all kinds of audio problems.
[07:38.900 --> 07:44.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: But using Skype out, calling in on a regular phone line at the WBAI studios works just fine.
[07:45.380 --> 07:46.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, indeed.
[07:46.500 --> 07:47.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, so...
[07:49.120 --> 07:49.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is fun.
[07:52.200 --> 07:55.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, Bernice, why don't you tell us what you're getting up to over there?
[07:56.180 --> 08:16.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, after several days at the DCC camp outside of Berlin, which was an amazing event, spent a couple more days in the city of Berlin, and then took a long train ride to Belgium and the lovely town of Ghent, where there's one of four hackerspaces in Belgium,
[08:16.520 --> 08:18.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: this one called White Space.
[08:18.580 --> 08:20.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's a great space.
[08:20.240 --> 08:24.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've seen quite a few hackerspaces, but this is a really nice one.
[08:24.560 --> 08:28.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's well laid out in a good location in the middle of town.
[08:28.500 --> 08:30.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm really impressed.
[08:30.480 --> 08:35.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: I may tomorrow be heading to Paris to check out Temp Lab there, another hackerspace.
[08:36.340 --> 08:45.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: But I was hoping we would have a little retrospective this week about the CCC camp and our experiences since last week's show was made from the camp.
[08:45.780 --> 08:49.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: But I personally had a terrific experience.
[08:49.880 --> 08:55.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was kind of grueling being outdoors for several days in a row and the elements and so forth.
[08:55.360 --> 09:01.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: And there were elements, but lots of amazing information and ideas were exchanged.
[09:03.400 --> 09:03.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[09:05.040 --> 09:07.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: We are going to attempt to reconnect with Emmanuel.
[09:08.720 --> 09:14.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: To do that, I have to make a phone call, so I'm going to mute the phone for a moment and lose all you guys.
[09:15.780 --> 09:16.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I won't lose you.
[09:16.880 --> 09:17.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: You'll still be on the line.
[09:20.860 --> 09:22.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: In the meantime, how are you, Junts?
[09:22.760 --> 09:23.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm good.
[09:24.080 --> 09:26.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: I got back from camp early, I guess.
[09:26.980 --> 09:32.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Everyone else had other places to go, but I decided that, you know, I really didn't have anywhere else to go, so I just came home the day after.
[09:33.420 --> 09:34.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, yeah, it was very good.
[09:35.180 --> 09:39.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: My first camp was two years ago at the Dutch camp, and this one was at least as good.
[09:40.060 --> 09:46.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I've kind of resolved to go to every camp, every European hacker camp from now on.
[09:48.620 --> 09:50.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Did you realize that was a big commitment?
[09:51.020 --> 09:54.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, yeah, you know, within certain parameters.
[09:55.500 --> 09:56.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're not going to be the yearly HAR.
[09:58.020 --> 09:58.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: The what?
[09:58.780 --> 10:01.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: HAR has their yearly meetups, yearly camps.
[10:02.480 --> 10:02.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh.
[10:03.080 --> 10:03.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[10:03.540 --> 10:04.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, like the Etho?
[10:04.540 --> 10:04.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[10:05.080 --> 10:05.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[10:05.660 --> 10:10.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, actually, I just learned about those this summer, so it might be fun to go to.
[10:10.440 --> 10:11.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're a lot smaller.
[10:11.220 --> 10:13.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is a much bigger camp that we went to this year.
[10:14.060 --> 10:17.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think there were 3,500 people, 4,000 people, about.
[10:19.360 --> 10:21.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, yeah, it gets very crowded very fast.
[10:21.720 --> 10:22.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's a lot of tents in the field.
[10:23.740 --> 10:27.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: Amy Goodman said 25,000 people, but then she corrected herself to 2,500.
[10:28.120 --> 10:28.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[10:28.600 --> 10:31.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I think it was certainly more than that.
[10:35.040 --> 10:40.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we're still waiting for Emmanuel on the plain old telephone.
[10:46.020 --> 10:48.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: And on the phone, we're getting busy signals.
[10:48.160 --> 10:49.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, we have to keep trying.
[10:50.080 --> 10:53.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sadly, nothing happened in the news these past couple weeks, so we have nothing to talk about.
[10:55.500 --> 10:56.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, food?
[10:59.920 --> 11:01.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, what was the food like?
[11:01.480 --> 11:02.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, food at camp was great.
[11:02.660 --> 11:04.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: They had all kinds of different...
[11:04.620 --> 11:11.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: There was an Indian food place, and there was a place selling burgers and pizzas, and there were crepes.
[11:12.300 --> 11:13.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: They had...
[11:13.100 --> 11:14.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: There was a pasta place.
[11:14.540 --> 11:14.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Really?
[11:15.060 --> 11:15.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, several bars.
[11:16.320 --> 11:17.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was all very...
[11:17.120 --> 11:18.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, and bratwurst, of course.
[11:18.800 --> 11:20.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: That was like a big improvement over horror.
[11:20.460 --> 11:20.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: That was the...
[11:20.900 --> 11:22.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Horror, the food...
[11:22.540 --> 11:24.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: The alcohol was amazing at Harvard.
[11:24.840 --> 11:25.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Not so much the food.
[11:25.780 --> 11:26.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, and I think it was opposite here.
[11:26.900 --> 11:29.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: There was alcohol, but not as much of a variety.
[11:29.720 --> 11:31.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: There was some grappa.
[11:31.200 --> 11:33.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: It wasn't as free-flowing as it was two years ago, but it was there.
[11:33.800 --> 11:34.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: You had to ask for it.
[11:37.500 --> 11:39.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: And there was a crepe-making robot as well.
[11:40.020 --> 11:40.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, wow.
[11:40.620 --> 11:41.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, indeed.
[11:43.080 --> 11:44.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, I'm going to try this again.
[11:49.900 --> 11:53.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: See, Bernie mentioned there was a group that had a crepe-making robot.
[11:54.000 --> 11:54.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: That was free.
[11:54.760 --> 11:57.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: There was like a, you know, commercially available crepe place too.
[11:58.800 --> 12:00.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: So you had a couple of different choices.
[12:00.620 --> 12:03.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: There was also a food hacking tent that was right by the hackers on a plane.
[12:03.980 --> 12:04.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sushi hacking?
[12:04.960 --> 12:09.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was one of the classes that they had was how to make sushi that Redhacked and I both went to.
[12:09.500 --> 12:10.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was very interesting.
[12:11.320 --> 12:13.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the sushi we made was very delicious.
[12:13.680 --> 12:15.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: I heard somebody had problems after that.
[12:15.600 --> 12:16.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: I forget who.
[12:16.020 --> 12:17.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: Somebody tweeted about having problems after that.
[12:17.900 --> 12:18.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: I forget who it was.
[12:18.360 --> 12:20.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: You guys, I think we have hold music.
[12:24.260 --> 12:24.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe not.
[12:26.580 --> 12:27.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Maybe not.
[12:28.860 --> 12:29.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: You reached Poland.
[12:30.220 --> 12:32.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I thought Bernie said something about bad sushi.
[12:32.680 --> 12:33.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: I didn't have any.
[12:34.060 --> 12:35.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: All the sushi I ate was great.
[12:35.380 --> 12:38.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell us more about the robot-making crepe?
[12:39.440 --> 12:43.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: I can't tell you a lot because I didn't actually stand around and watch it make a crepe.
[12:43.820 --> 12:47.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: We kind of glanced at it for a short period of time as we walked by.
[12:47.420 --> 12:47.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: Was it edible?
[12:47.900 --> 12:53.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: Did it have feedback as to how fast it was cooking the crepe and how to put stuff in it or you didn't see it?
[12:53.200 --> 12:54.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't really know, to be honest with you.
[12:54.920 --> 12:55.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty amazing.
[12:56.040 --> 12:56.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: It is pretty...
[12:56.780 --> 12:57.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: It didn't seem...
[12:57.920 --> 12:59.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of pieces to making a crepe.
[12:59.560 --> 13:00.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: You would think.
[13:00.220 --> 13:00.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[13:00.400 --> 13:03.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, they had the actual hot plate thing and a couple of other...
[13:03.640 --> 13:08.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: And there was a big arm that did most of the work, I suppose, but it didn't seem as complicated as you would think it would have to be.
[13:09.300 --> 13:10.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess.
[13:10.460 --> 13:11.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: It still has to know when it's done.
[13:12.060 --> 13:13.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: It has to fold stuff in.
[13:13.400 --> 13:13.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
[13:13.940 --> 13:14.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: It has to kind of slide it off.
[13:15.060 --> 13:16.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: It has to make it really thin.
[13:17.240 --> 13:18.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't want to build one.
[13:18.880 --> 13:19.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
[13:19.960 --> 13:23.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: All the times I saw it, it was not in operation or at least not actively making anything.
[13:24.300 --> 13:25.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: I know it did...
[13:25.400 --> 13:26.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, it worked.
[13:26.160 --> 13:26.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know if...
[13:26.920 --> 13:28.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because I know it was feeding people.
[13:28.300 --> 13:28.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[13:28.500 --> 13:33.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: So like the early Xerox machines, like they would work for like a day and then they would get a jam.
[13:33.440 --> 13:33.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: Possibly, yeah.
[13:33.740 --> 13:34.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: Nowadays, they work really well.
[13:34.920 --> 13:37.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that's the danger of, you know, hacker equipment.
[13:37.760 --> 13:40.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sometimes it doesn't always work reliably.
[13:40.960 --> 13:42.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sort of like our phone calls at the show.
[13:45.280 --> 13:46.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello, are you there?
[13:46.620 --> 13:47.240]  Yes, I'm here.
[13:48.260 --> 13:48.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Awesome.
[13:58.900 --> 13:59.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Can you hear us?
[14:00.580 --> 14:03.250]  Uh-oh.
[14:03.790 --> 14:04.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-oh.
[14:04.610 --> 14:05.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: Can anyone hear us?
[14:05.710 --> 14:06.070]  Uh-oh.
[14:06.810 --> 14:07.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: I can hear you.
[14:07.570 --> 14:08.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: It is Bernie, yes.
[14:08.130 --> 14:09.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I can hear you fine, Rob.
[14:10.310 --> 14:10.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[14:11.170 --> 14:14.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's try this once again.
[14:16.010 --> 14:17.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello, can you hear us?
[14:20.940 --> 14:22.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, Bernie, tell us about Belgium.
[14:24.020 --> 14:24.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Belgium.
[14:25.100 --> 14:26.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is my first trip to Belgium.
[14:26.820 --> 14:29.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've been in the Netherlands several times.
[14:29.620 --> 14:36.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: But right next to the Netherlands is Belgium, which apparently used to be part of the Netherlands many ages ago.
[14:36.740 --> 14:42.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: But this is a small town of maybe two or three hundred thousand people.
[14:43.040 --> 14:49.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a college town, university town that during school years has a somewhat larger population.
[14:49.380 --> 14:57.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: But it's one of the older cities here that has not been having its buildings destroyed during the war.
[14:58.140 --> 15:05.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Apparently, the Axis and the Allies agreed to not have it destroyed because of its historical significance.
[15:05.760 --> 15:09.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Speaking of historical significance, I think we've got Emmanuel back.
[15:09.980 --> 15:10.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Have we?
[15:11.340 --> 15:12.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thank God, yes.
[15:12.460 --> 15:13.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm finally connected on the telephone.
[15:14.020 --> 15:14.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Can you hear me?
[15:15.060 --> 15:15.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, indeed.
[15:16.160 --> 15:17.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, here we are.
[15:17.960 --> 15:19.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Kyle and I are in Warsaw.
[15:21.640 --> 15:35.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we're here on our way to places such as Belarus and Ukraine after having just gotten out of the chaos camp a few days ago in Berlin or near Berlin, anyway.
[15:36.720 --> 15:38.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just so we know who is still with us.
[15:39.040 --> 15:39.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: Did we lose anybody?
[15:39.880 --> 15:41.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: We lost Mike, unfortunately.
[15:41.700 --> 15:42.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: We lost Mike.
[15:42.400 --> 15:45.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, well, I'm sure Mike updated us on everything that happened with him.
[15:46.580 --> 15:48.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: And he's over in Iceland right now.
[15:48.320 --> 15:50.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, Bernie, you're in Belgium right now, right?
[15:51.080 --> 15:52.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, I'm in the town of Ghent.
[15:53.080 --> 15:53.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[15:54.000 --> 15:55.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: And have you told everybody what you've been up to?
[15:57.540 --> 15:58.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have, yes.
[15:58.560 --> 16:04.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: We've been updating you while you've been updating our listeners while you've been in hiatus there trying to get connected.
[16:04.920 --> 16:05.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, yeah.
[16:05.880 --> 16:08.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, well, let's not even talk about that right now.
[16:08.440 --> 16:10.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, okay, that's really fascinating.
[16:10.440 --> 16:12.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to listen to what you had to say later on.
[16:12.800 --> 16:14.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sure all the listeners have heard what you have to say.
[16:15.160 --> 16:17.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're in Warsaw right now, in Poland.
[16:18.300 --> 16:43.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, by the way, I'd just like to say for those listeners out there that might be listening in these places, if you're in Iceland, if you're in France, if you're in Poland, Belarus, or Ukraine, please write to us, oth@2600.com, and then maybe we can see your country through your eyes or just meet up with some Off The Hook listeners in various parts of the world,
[16:43.780 --> 16:44.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: it would be really cool.
[16:44.800 --> 16:51.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's sort of a continuation of what we've been doing at the Chaos Communication Camp over the past week or so.
[16:51.520 --> 17:13.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, I've got to say, what happened over the past ten or so days insofar as setting up the camp, participating in the camp, tearing down from the camp, it's one of those things that's just an amazing experience that a few thousand people get to participate in.
[17:14.140 --> 17:21.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then we kind of come away from that with fresh inspiration, new ideas, and we start planning for the next thing.
[17:22.040 --> 17:29.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: And hopefully the next thing will be the Chaos Communication Congress in December and then Hope No.
[17:29.530 --> 17:32.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: 9 coming up in July in New York City.
[17:33.730 --> 17:42.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, I don't know, any particular questions as to what happened in Germany that perhaps we could help with?
[17:45.080 --> 17:46.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Questions about what happened?
[17:46.920 --> 17:48.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, not from you, Bernie.
[17:48.300 --> 17:49.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Obviously, you were there.
[17:49.300 --> 17:50.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm talking about people in New York.
[17:51.040 --> 17:51.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: I see.
[17:53.660 --> 17:55.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is there anybody in New York?
[17:55.400 --> 17:56.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, there is.
[17:56.420 --> 17:56.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, good.
[17:56.860 --> 17:57.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[17:57.250 --> 17:58.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's lots of people in New York.
[17:58.860 --> 17:59.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[18:00.010 --> 18:02.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anything you care to ask us?
[18:03.290 --> 18:04.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, do you miss it?
[18:05.290 --> 18:10.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because that's what all the blogosphere seems flooded with is everybody just desperately misses the camp despite the fact that it was very recent.
[18:15.390 --> 18:19.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: I wish you were still there, but the elements got the best of me.
[18:19.970 --> 18:22.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, it was a...
[18:23.610 --> 18:28.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: It seems, even though it was a five-day event, it seems to go by very quickly, too quickly.
[18:30.130 --> 18:32.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: I just wanted to mention some of my experiences.
[18:34.110 --> 18:37.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: I arrived at the camp earlier, and I've gotten to speak about this a little bit.
[18:38.170 --> 18:50.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was so brilliant to see many faces and people, groups, and projects that I've been able to introduce myself and familiarize myself with at prior events.
[18:51.010 --> 18:59.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: And so, I met many more new people, but also was able to rekindle and keep some of those other relationships I've built alive.
[19:00.270 --> 19:14.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that's very, very helpful with moving forward with all the projects that we're involved with, whether it's Hope or other projects, as well as some of the stuff that's going on in the news.
[19:14.670 --> 19:19.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: And just, again, personally, maintaining relationships and meeting new people.
[19:19.550 --> 19:28.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: There was one really cool situation where I had met someone who had never been to a Congress or any sort of event in the U.S.
[19:28.590 --> 19:37.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: or in Europe, and they recognized me and specifically volunteered because they had trouble doing it at the Congress.
[19:37.950 --> 19:39.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: And this was some two years later.
[19:39.890 --> 19:47.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I ended up working side-by-side with this person and keeping that relationship going.
[19:48.870 --> 19:52.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I also met some more faces.
[19:53.270 --> 20:07.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: I've been to Congress a couple times, but spending a week camping with Germans, I was able to sort of meet a lot of Germans in a situation that's a little different than what we see at the more urban chaos communication Congress.
[20:08.030 --> 20:13.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: So camping, it's a challenge and especially adding volunteering on that.
[20:13.910 --> 20:25.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: It can be tricky, but as others have said tonight, it's so worthwhile for those reasons and many, many more.
[20:27.770 --> 20:33.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: without hundreds of volunteers, events like a CCC camp simply couldn't happen.
[20:33.930 --> 20:43.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: Basically, the city is built in the middle of nowhere by hundreds of hackers to support thousands of hackers' needs for about a week.
[20:44.170 --> 20:46.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're talking about every conceivable need.
[20:47.790 --> 20:57.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: Food, water, sanitation, Internet connectivity, telephone system, power per state.
[20:58.230 --> 21:00.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Everything you would need in a city is there.
[21:01.630 --> 21:17.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's amazing to have people who come together in a short period of time and build a small city to support thousands of people who all share a common goal, to share technical information and how it affects your society and a way to try to make it better.
[21:18.130 --> 21:20.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's really inspiring, these events.
[21:21.070 --> 21:26.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: It makes me sort of as a microcosm of what I'd like to see our world look more like.
[21:28.030 --> 21:30.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'd like to add one more thing about that.
[21:31.490 --> 21:40.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that's just some two years ago, I hadn't any sort of concept of how involved one could get.
[21:40.290 --> 21:41.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I just want to put that out there.
[21:42.090 --> 21:50.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anybody, whether you're a young person or somebody who's been involved or following the community for a long time, put yourself out there.
[21:50.690 --> 22:01.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Go to a meeting if you're in the States or try going to a small event in the States or maybe even venture up north into Canada if there's something you hear about or overseas.
[22:02.130 --> 22:05.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because I've got to tell you, it's exponential.
[22:05.550 --> 22:12.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: My learning process and my own hacking, my interests, have just totally
[22:22.870 --> 22:27.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: your own process and your own projects and your own communities are affected by that.
[22:28.370 --> 22:34.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: And really, if I could say anything, get involved soon and put yourself out there.
[22:35.030 --> 22:53.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's challenging and it's hard, I think, as hackers or people that are into technology, it's a bit hard to talk about the technical things that you like, but also socialize in these events, these meetings, just getting involved in a project, even if it's remote,
[22:53.930 --> 22:56.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: but I encourage face-to-face stuff too.
[22:56.710 --> 23:01.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: If you get yourself out there and get involved, it becomes easier, just like anything else.
[23:01.770 --> 23:02.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: Practice makes perfect.
[23:03.010 --> 23:21.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: So if you're sitting at home and you're listening or maybe you're a reader or you, I don't know, you just follow the news and stuff and you've heard about this hacking community or hacker spaces, you just want to start to see if maybe that's a community for you,
[23:21.990 --> 23:23.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: chances are it is.
[23:23.310 --> 23:28.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: And chances are no matter what you're doing, you've got a place in that.
[23:28.050 --> 23:30.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: You have something to contribute.
[23:30.670 --> 23:46.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: And if you're inspired, you could see your own life and your own world just completely thrive, just open up by being around people that are smart, that encourage you, that have ideas.
[23:47.670 --> 23:48.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: And again, it's work.
[23:48.670 --> 23:48.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's work.
[23:49.130 --> 23:51.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: Relationships and society is work.
[23:51.530 --> 24:07.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I think the cohesion between individuals and on projects and all of these kinds of amazing things that are happening with the hacker community and technology, that's lasting and gets stronger and stronger.
[24:07.530 --> 24:15.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're seeing a lot of younger people, a lot of families, a lot of people in different artistic worlds, all kinds of different things.
[24:15.410 --> 24:20.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Food is this amazing thing that's been sort of blossoming in the hacker community.
[24:20.450 --> 24:30.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's all these things that we can pull in and sort of affect in sort of the regular world, the world that we may think ignores us.
[24:30.710 --> 24:33.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: And the reality is we're innovating it.
[24:33.710 --> 24:39.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: Kyle, I noticed that there was a whole family village there at CCC Camp this year.
[24:39.570 --> 24:40.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely.
[24:40.870 --> 24:43.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I heard that's the same kind of thing with young people.
[24:43.550 --> 24:57.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, multi-generational hacker families ran into folks who, you know, had kids who had pretty amazing technical skills because their parents were hackers.
[24:58.110 --> 25:05.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: And so this is really amazing to see this community growing and carrying on through generations now.
[25:06.130 --> 25:07.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, this is...
[25:07.670 --> 25:08.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Absolutely.
[25:08.150 --> 25:09.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it's just really inspiring.
[25:10.210 --> 25:12.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: And you can have that impact.
[25:12.850 --> 25:15.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Again, it's that teaching and learning.
[25:15.930 --> 25:17.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it's full duplex.
[25:18.010 --> 25:22.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, you teach as much as you learn when you're in this kind of community.
[25:23.170 --> 25:28.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I think the biggest danger is keeping yourself from that.
[25:28.730 --> 25:37.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: And so I just really encourage people to get involved because someone like myself who's only been involved for a couple years, I see all this new stuff.
[25:37.410 --> 25:46.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: Again, maintain existing relationships and really work on those because there's many people that want to help and a lot of projects I want to move forward on and stuff.
[25:47.070 --> 25:52.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I'm seeing so much new as well as we talk about families and stuff.
[25:52.350 --> 25:57.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: But also amazing art and technical stuff.
[25:57.810 --> 26:01.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: And especially in the news and with what's going on.
[26:01.290 --> 26:06.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: As we all know, there's a lot of serious sides to all of this stuff.
[26:07.330 --> 26:16.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: I wanted to point out that a lot of our listeners who could not come to the CCC camp this year can get a good taste of it.
[26:16.690 --> 26:21.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: First, you can just search for CCC camp photos online.
[26:21.950 --> 26:23.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: There are thousands and thousands of them.
[26:24.110 --> 26:32.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: But more importantly, all the audio and video from the dozens of talks and presentations that were given at the conference are online.
[26:32.910 --> 26:41.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: you can just go to the CCC website, ccc.de, which links to where you can see some of the content that was shared at this conference.
[26:42.130 --> 26:48.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: Really, some really incredible presentations were made there that we can't really, don't have the time to go into on tonight's show.
[26:48.550 --> 27:10.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: But it was five days of presentations and talks, which incidentally were held in these huge underground bunkers, not underground, but bunkers that were covered with earth and trees that were designed to protect airplanes of the German Democratic Republic during the Cold War.
[27:11.050 --> 27:18.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: So this was an amazing venue, and we had a great physical infrastructure for these talks and these bunkers.
[27:18.970 --> 27:21.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, of course, most of what happened was outside.
[27:22.210 --> 27:24.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: For the most part, it was a tolerable weather.
[27:26.250 --> 27:32.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: This all sort of ties into something else I wanted to mention tonight about someone who was at the CCC camp.
[27:33.470 --> 27:36.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is a blog post that was written by somebody who attended CCC.
[27:37.210 --> 27:39.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's somebody who worked with telecomics.
[27:39.250 --> 27:53.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you're not familiar with that, telecomics is sort of a collective that ensured things like a group of hacktivists who ensured things like access for the Egyptians during their rebellion and revolution and stuff like that.
[27:53.730 --> 27:56.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: And this is something that takes a lot of work from a lot of people.
[27:58.490 --> 28:01.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: And this one individual, his name is Stefan Urbach.
[28:01.810 --> 28:02.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: I hope I'm saying that right.
[28:04.130 --> 28:07.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: And he wrote a blog post with his permission.
[28:07.290 --> 28:08.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'd like to read it on the air.
[28:10.170 --> 28:11.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: As in, he gave me his permission.
[28:12.050 --> 28:13.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: So I'm going to read this.
[28:14.010 --> 28:16.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a bit heavy, but here we go.
[28:17.790 --> 28:23.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's entitled, The Day I Wanted to Die, A Personal Confession, or Why the Shutdown of a Cluster is Making People Live.
[28:24.870 --> 28:27.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: I have to make a confession, a very personal one.
[28:27.530 --> 28:28.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: I wanted to die.
[28:28.890 --> 28:29.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: I planned everything.
[28:30.130 --> 28:31.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: I planned how to do it.
[28:31.250 --> 28:32.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: I organized the tools to do it.
[28:32.910 --> 28:38.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: I wrote down how to gain access to my email account, my server, my IRC sessions, and who was to be informed.
[28:38.990 --> 28:40.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: I was in a deep depression.
[28:40.310 --> 28:43.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: I saw no way out to stop this feeling other than to commit suicide.
[28:44.250 --> 28:45.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: The pressure was too much for me.
[28:45.910 --> 28:48.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: I was working since January on different projects with telecomics and others.
[28:49.370 --> 28:56.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: We were helping Egyptians to gain back their connection to the Internet, helped in Syria, Libya, and many other countries to give the oppressed a possibility to speak.
[28:56.690 --> 28:58.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: We made it possible that their voices were being heard.
[28:59.170 --> 29:00.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Literally, I fought for that.
[29:00.550 --> 29:03.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: I fought against my sleeping cycle, eating habits, and my need for recreation.
[29:04.170 --> 29:06.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: On some days, it was normal to stay awake for 30 or more hours.
[29:07.370 --> 29:09.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: I saw and read things I would never have considered possible.
[29:10.070 --> 29:14.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: In the last months, we helped many people get connected to the Internet to speak up and show the world what was happening.
[29:15.150 --> 29:16.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: Some people got lost.
[29:16.470 --> 29:20.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: I never saw them again, and I do not know if they just moved away from us or if they got arrested or killed.
[29:20.850 --> 29:22.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: I do not know, and I will never know.
[29:23.470 --> 29:28.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: Every day in the media, we see so many bad news from all over the world, news which are bad but which do not affect us directly.
[29:29.050 --> 29:32.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: The news about these people, or lack thereof, who were talking to me affected me deeply.
[29:33.030 --> 29:37.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: The pressure arose to help, to help these people who struggle hard for their right to speak freely.
[29:37.570 --> 29:41.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: The more we helped the people, the more the responsibility I felt grew to a new level.
[29:41.910 --> 29:43.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: I could not sleep anymore.
[29:43.370 --> 29:44.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: I drank way too much.
[29:44.530 --> 29:45.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: I smoked more than was good for me.
[29:46.030 --> 29:48.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: I saw no more meaning in my life than helping other people.
[29:48.870 --> 29:50.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: Over that, I forgot what I needed for myself.
[29:51.570 --> 29:56.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sleep, recreation, movies, music, hanging around with my friends, and not thinking about people on the ground and what to do next.
[29:57.490 --> 29:59.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: One day I realized that I was lost.
[29:59.290 --> 30:00.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: Lost in this life that was not mine.
[30:01.150 --> 30:02.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: Lost in a life where I only served others.
[30:03.430 --> 30:04.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: People considering me a hero.
[30:05.110 --> 30:09.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: No one saw that I was just a little boy who wanted to play around with technology and write papers about the future of communication.
[30:10.530 --> 30:12.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: Long story short, it all needed to end for me.
[30:13.130 --> 30:16.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: I saw no other way than going, leaving, not being a hero anymore.
[30:17.170 --> 30:20.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: I planned to commit suicide a day after the CCC camp.
[30:20.330 --> 30:21.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: Everything was prepared.
[30:21.630 --> 30:22.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: But there, it happened.
[30:23.070 --> 30:25.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: We closed down the activist cluster I was with.
[30:25.270 --> 30:29.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: I met many great people for the first time in real life, and many of them have the same problem.
[30:29.870 --> 30:32.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: My friends were there and showed me that life is worth living.
[30:33.450 --> 30:35.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: With the reboot of the cluster, I will reboot myself.
[30:36.150 --> 30:37.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: I am starting to make plans for my life again.
[30:38.150 --> 30:39.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: I am not lost anymore.
[30:39.010 --> 30:43.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: I have my place in the hacking and activist scene, and I have my friends all over the world.
[30:43.350 --> 30:50.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: I am not alone, and the facts I considered a burden are not a burden anymore, but opened my eyes to what is important in life, to communicate what you feel.
[30:51.030 --> 30:54.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if my communication of my feelings helps others to do the same, it was worth it.
[30:54.650 --> 30:57.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, shutting myself down to reboot, it's time.
[30:58.010 --> 30:59.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: Reboot-h now.
[31:00.730 --> 31:05.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that was a blog post dated yesterday from stefanurbach.net.
[31:05.230 --> 31:10.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's S-T-E-P-H-A-N-U-R-B-A-C-H dot D-E.
[31:10.610 --> 31:11.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: Actually, not dot net.
[31:12.770 --> 31:31.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, yeah, I think, you know, this is, of course, an extraordinary case, but I think there's a lot to be said for... I think we've all been in positions like that where we sort of get so caught up in what we're doing and these awesome projects that we get working on in this community that we sometimes lose sight of taking care of ourselves first and doing what's important to keep ourselves going
[31:31.130 --> 31:34.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: so we can be the best we can for the things we're working on.
[31:35.090 --> 31:42.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, yeah, I think that's really a decent story of what things like CCC can do for people.
[31:43.250 --> 31:54.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because, really, however much you spend time behind your keyboard and staring at your monitor and just banging away at things, it really counts for a lot to go out and actually meet and talk with people.
[31:55.370 --> 32:07.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: And whether it's at CCC or whether it's at your local 2600 meetings or other conferences or, you know, just whatever clubs or stuff you've got going around near you or just go to a movie with your friends, you know, take care of yourselves.
[32:08.430 --> 32:11.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I think that's a good message to take on board.
[32:15.370 --> 32:20.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's obviously a lot to be said for getting together with the people that you meet online.
[32:20.950 --> 32:35.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: But when you go to an event like CCC camp, you run into literally thousands of people, some of whom share interest with you and some of whom have interest that you'll find yourself interested in and vice versa.
[32:35.770 --> 32:45.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is the kind of thing you just can't do online, which is why the hacker community has conferences, congresses, camps, because we need to physically network.
[32:45.970 --> 32:48.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: We need to, you know, sit down face-to-face and talk about stuff.
[32:48.970 --> 32:51.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's how a lot of things get started.
[32:51.350 --> 33:01.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I've talked to a number of people this year's CCC camp who said it changed their outlook on life, just being inspired by so many people there.
[33:06.220 --> 33:08.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, moving on to new subjects.
[33:09.160 --> 33:12.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Emmanuel and Kyle, I don't think you guys mentioned what you're actually doing out there where you are.
[33:14.040 --> 33:14.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[33:14.480 --> 33:23.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, we are in Warsaw, Poland, as we've said twice now, just exploring, kind of checking out this part of the world.
[33:23.740 --> 33:30.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: I actually have a little bit of Polish in me, as it were, heritage-wise.
[33:31.100 --> 33:32.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, I'm very interested in that.
[33:32.760 --> 33:35.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: But also, Poland's changed a lot.
[33:36.100 --> 33:39.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Warsaw, in particular, is quite a bit different.
[33:39.820 --> 33:42.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think Emmanuel can speak a little bit more on that.
[33:42.880 --> 33:52.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: I've never been to Warsaw myself, but they're doing a lot with infrastructure because of this big event, the Euro 2012.
[33:53.320 --> 34:00.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: And we're really fascinated by infrastructure as hackers and seeing people work and build things.
[34:00.460 --> 34:13.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, we spend a bit of time today familiarizing ourselves with what is a quite complex transit system, but also just exploring the city and seeing the busyness and what's going on.
[34:13.440 --> 34:24.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it really is quite modern, quite a bit different than the coal-burning and sort of gray that I thought stereotypically was what Warsaw was all about.
[34:25.560 --> 34:26.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: But here's Emmanuel.
[34:27.880 --> 34:28.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[34:28.380 --> 34:31.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, Euro 2012 takes place next year.
[34:31.520 --> 34:39.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that's, for those of you who don't know, that's kind of like a mini-World Cup involving European teams.
[34:39.860 --> 34:42.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's taking place in both Poland and Ukraine.
[34:43.420 --> 34:50.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, we're going to be checking out both countries and see how their infrastructure is building up for this monumental event.
[34:50.120 --> 35:01.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the interesting thing is that on the way between Poland and Ukraine, we'll be going through Belarus, Belarus, a team which actually is almost qualified, I think, to be in Euro 2012 next year.
[35:02.600 --> 35:05.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Belarus is known as the last dictatorship of Europe.
[35:06.600 --> 35:08.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I've been there twice already.
[35:08.920 --> 35:12.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: And Kyle and I are going back this year.
[35:12.540 --> 35:23.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we're going to sort of explore, look around, see what's going on, see how the country has changed, look at their infrastructure, look at their social scene, and things like that.
[35:23.940 --> 35:34.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I just think it would be very interesting if there were any hackers that actually were in Minsk, in Belarus, or even any part of this region in Poland or Ukraine.
[35:34.860 --> 35:39.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because it's always fascinating to see countries and cultures through the eyes of hackers.
[35:40.360 --> 35:54.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: As you've seen in the last couple of years, actually, the hacker culture has resulted in a lot of change, whether it be through WikiLeaks or groups such as LullSec and Anonymous.
[35:54.620 --> 36:06.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Actually, things are basically being, I guess, really brought to the forefront in the media.
[36:06.660 --> 36:14.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: And people are feeling empowered as far as using technology and social networking sites and things like that.
[36:14.460 --> 36:16.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's very interesting times to be a hacker.
[36:16.640 --> 36:18.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: It always is an interesting time to be a hacker.
[36:18.440 --> 36:26.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: But in this particular period of time, it's especially interesting because the entire world has to be focused on what it is we're doing.
[36:26.940 --> 36:33.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: And at the camp, at the chaos communication camp, which just ended, I think that's something that we all kind of felt.
[36:33.820 --> 36:37.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: We saw all these people coming around from all different parts of the globe.
[36:38.480 --> 36:40.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we all kind of shared that.
[36:40.900 --> 36:42.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it was a very international type of event.
[36:42.600 --> 36:43.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: There were people from Bulgaria.
[36:43.480 --> 36:44.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: There were people from Japan.
[36:44.620 --> 36:48.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: There were people from Africa and from North America and South America.
[36:49.240 --> 36:53.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it was really amazing to see all this and to feel all that.
[36:53.460 --> 36:57.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you realize how big the hacker culture has become and how all-encompassing it is.
[36:58.220 --> 36:59.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's inspirational.
[36:59.400 --> 37:07.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that's why we hope to stay in touch with so many people from different parts of the world.
[37:07.040 --> 37:18.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: So if anyone out there is interested in contacting us, any of our travelers, whether it be in Iceland or France or Belarus or any of the other places, oth@2600.com is our email address.
[37:18.540 --> 37:19.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'd sure love to hear from you.
[37:20.440 --> 37:28.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, of course, that's also our email address for those of you who are not traveling or not in other countries, but just simply want to ask us questions or provide feedback.
[37:30.200 --> 37:31.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's fascinating times we're in.
[37:32.740 --> 37:50.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: I wanted to say, too, that what a lot of people who come to the Chaos Communications camp do afterwards is they take some additional time off to travel around Europe and visit other hackerspaces, which is what I'm doing here at Temp Lab in Ghent, Belgium.
[37:51.060 --> 37:53.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: And probably tomorrow I'll be heading to Paris to...
[37:53.940 --> 37:56.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: I said White Space, I'm sorry, in Belgium.
[37:56.560 --> 37:59.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll be heading to Temp Lab in Paris tomorrow, probably.
[37:59.040 --> 38:02.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: But we get involved in other things, too.
[38:02.380 --> 38:20.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: I have to give thanks to Philip from Croatia for a couple days ago taking me and some other hackers from camp to an abandoned NSA signal monitoring facility outside of Berlin, which was an amazing urban expedition.
[38:20.040 --> 38:30.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: We hiked for miles, many kilometers, up a mountain of rubble that was made from the remnants of Berlin.
[38:31.220 --> 38:46.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thousands of train cars hold the remnants of Berlin into this big pile of rubble, which is on the outskirts of Berlin, which on top of which now sits a former NSA monitoring facility with these big round golf ball-shaped ray domes.
[38:47.120 --> 39:02.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: We spent hours exploring that place and taking photographs, and it was really a pretty awesome experience seeing what our government was doing to monitor the East during those cold war times.
[39:02.560 --> 39:08.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: And there are similar stations around the world right now, but this is the first one and probably the only one I'll ever get a chance to explore.
[39:08.980 --> 39:10.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, I'm a little confused by this.
[39:10.580 --> 39:15.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, you went to see an NSA monitoring post, correct, in Germany?
[39:15.360 --> 39:15.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's right.
[39:16.000 --> 39:18.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's not currently what it was, but it's just abandoned now.
[39:19.200 --> 39:24.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: But wasn't it in East Germany, and how did they manage to have that going?
[39:24.340 --> 39:31.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, it was in West Germany, but just near the border so that all the antennas can be pointed towards the East.
[39:32.200 --> 39:39.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think one of the primary targets were the terrestrial microwave telecommunications links.
[39:39.440 --> 39:52.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: You may recall back in the 80s and earlier that long-distance telephone links were not carried by fiber optic, but were primarily carried by point-to-point microwave, not satellite.
[39:52.820 --> 39:57.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Those cornucopia-type forms you used to see on towers in various cities.
[39:57.880 --> 40:12.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's all due in rural areas, but NSA had decided they could monitor from a distance these point-to-point microwave links in the German Democratic Republic from this monitoring post that I visited.
[40:13.760 --> 40:21.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, listened to lots of phone calls and other official communications and just gathered whatever intelligence they could from East Germany.
[40:21.240 --> 40:22.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was fascinating.
[40:23.080 --> 40:25.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I take it this was in West Berlin, then?
[40:25.820 --> 40:27.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, but outside the city.
[40:27.480 --> 40:28.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was pretty...
[40:28.040 --> 40:29.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was really out in the countryside.
[40:29.420 --> 40:34.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, we had to hike through fields and woods and up this massive mountain of rubble.
[40:34.700 --> 40:35.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's fine.
[40:35.300 --> 40:44.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're going up this path on this mountain and you see bricks and just brick after brick after brick, just pieces of bricks.
[40:45.220 --> 40:55.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I was told that this hill, which you can see from the center of Berlin, you can see it from the famous radio TV tower in Alexanderplatz.
[40:55.020 --> 40:58.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you look out, you can see this strangely shaped hill.
[40:58.620 --> 41:02.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like higher than anything else around, but it's not shaped like a normal mountain.
[41:02.200 --> 41:07.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: It is piles of trainloads of what was Berlin.
[41:07.820 --> 41:14.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: And on top of that, it's this big tower with this giant golf ball-looking radome on it.
[41:14.420 --> 41:16.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: And there's about five radomes there.
[41:16.700 --> 41:24.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you can climb up inside them and see where they had all their radio equipment and where the analysts sat.
[41:24.180 --> 41:32.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's pretty chilling seeing the scope of the electronic surveillance that was happening from the west pointed at the east.
[41:33.160 --> 41:35.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sure they were doing it on the other side as well, pointing at us.
[41:36.520 --> 41:50.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I just think it's amazing that you went from being on an East German airfield pretty much run by the Soviets in one day to going over to a former NSA listening post and exploring that.
[41:50.540 --> 41:53.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, that's a true hacker spirit right there, what you went through.
[41:54.040 --> 41:55.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was pretty amazing.
[41:55.480 --> 41:57.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I've got to thank Philip for introducing me to this.
[41:57.460 --> 41:58.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: He planned a great trip.
[41:58.220 --> 42:05.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we had to do some pretty serious circumvention to get into the place.
[42:05.300 --> 42:06.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: But we found that other people were...
[42:06.620 --> 42:10.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: We ran into other people from camp that we didn't even know who were there at the same time.
[42:10.940 --> 42:12.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: So it wasn't just us.
[42:12.180 --> 42:19.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was sort of like the mecca for some of the people at CCC to check this out while they happened to be in Germany.
[42:20.020 --> 42:23.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: So that was pretty great running into other CCC folks.
[42:23.500 --> 42:25.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: But there were some other people from the area that were there.
[42:26.320 --> 42:36.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: One person we found at the top radome this is like a 30-foot high 30-40 foot high golf ball that contained this big microwave antenna at one time.
[42:36.900 --> 42:45.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: There was someone in there playing an acoustic guitar with a couple of people recording them because the acoustics in this giant radome are so amazing.
[42:45.960 --> 42:53.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can just whisper at your lowest tone of voice and it echoes back into your ears with deafening loudness.
[42:53.220 --> 42:55.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was just surreal.
[42:56.060 --> 43:02.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: I found the remnants of a pirate FM radio station in one of these radomes as well.
[43:02.520 --> 43:13.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Apparently after it was retired, back in 1989 when the wall came down, the NSA decided to abandon that facility since they could set up monitoring facilities anywhere in Germany.
[43:14.580 --> 43:21.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Apparently someone took advantage of the high off-the-ground location of this monitoring post and set up a pirate FM radio station.
[43:21.920 --> 43:27.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: I found some of the equipment from that station still there with some antenna stuff.
[43:27.140 --> 43:30.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was pretty funny and ironic finding that there.
[43:30.820 --> 43:33.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: What does a radome look like for someone who's never seen one?
[43:33.880 --> 43:35.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: It looks like a big golf ball.
[43:36.860 --> 43:37.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: About how big?
[43:41.820 --> 43:42.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello?
[43:42.660 --> 43:43.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello.
[43:43.720 --> 43:44.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: About how big is a radome?
[43:45.580 --> 44:00.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, the ones there, I'd say the biggest one, there were about five of them, and the biggest one at the top, at the tallest tower, was probably, I'm guessing maybe 40 or 50 feet in diameter.
[44:00.800 --> 44:02.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's made up of little triangles.
[44:03.760 --> 44:11.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Instead of dimples and a golf ball, it's made up of little triangles of a special material that is transparent to all radio frequencies.
[44:11.240 --> 44:16.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: But each triangle has to be mathematically calculated to be dimensionally unique.
[44:16.800 --> 44:26.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because if any two triangles are the same, you can lend to like a filtering effect and not provide a transparent RF enclosure around the antenna.
[44:26.480 --> 44:40.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the whole reason they cover these antennas is not just to shield them from the weather, but to deny the adversary from seeing which direction the antenna is pointed and what kind of antenna it is, which would be revealing crucial intelligence.
[44:40.940 --> 44:45.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: So that's why they have these radomes around big satellite antennas.
[44:45.900 --> 44:58.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: By the way, I would like to jump in and invite our listeners to give us a call because I know we haven't taken phone calls in a while and we certainly have been through a lot in the last few weeks and we'd like to hear your questions, your feedback, your responses to the things that we've been reporting on.
[44:58.820 --> 45:02.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Our phone number is 212-209-2900.
[45:02.920 --> 45:04.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212-209-2900.
[45:05.240 --> 45:07.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm over here in Warsaw with Kyle.
[45:08.240 --> 45:10.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie is over in Belgium.
[45:10.760 --> 45:12.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mike is no longer with us, but he is in Iceland.
[45:13.620 --> 45:14.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: He's still there.
[45:14.540 --> 45:16.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: And of course everyone else is over in New York.
[45:17.260 --> 45:21.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know where Red Hack is in Prague in the Czech Republic, but I don't think we have him online either.
[45:22.600 --> 45:42.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I do want to say, just after having concluded the Chaos Communication Congress run by the Chaos Communication Club, Computer Club, the CCC, the wonderful people of Germany, there are so many people to thank, so many different organizations, organizations like the Italian Embassy,
[45:42.500 --> 45:52.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: a bunch of people from Italy that just get together and are just extremely festive and generous as far as handing out grappa and handing out pasta and things like that.
[45:52.360 --> 46:03.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's just an amazingly festive occasion, a lot of fun to be with them, to see them every couple of years, and people from all different other countries as well.
[46:03.920 --> 46:09.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: But you know, in this particular case, I think the United States really was represented very well, too.
[46:10.260 --> 46:17.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Nick Farr did an amazing job getting people to basically have a presence there at the camp.
[46:18.400 --> 46:26.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think so many people came by and saw generosity of a sort that was really kind of cool.
[46:27.360 --> 46:31.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: As you mentioned, Bernie, Philip was there from Croatia.
[46:31.440 --> 46:37.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: He visited the American tents and was cooking all kinds of interesting things for various people wandering by.
[46:38.120 --> 46:45.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: And Kyle and I were there with the Hacker calendars, which a lot of people were really into and were finding all kinds of dates and pictures and things like that.
[46:45.780 --> 46:46.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: That was fun.
[46:46.900 --> 46:53.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: So all sorts of people were just meeting and exchanging stories and experiences and things like that.
[46:54.160 --> 46:56.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: And of course, there were so many other countries represented as well.
[46:56.600 --> 47:02.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't want to skip over it, but of course I'm going to because there were just so many different...
[47:02.720 --> 47:07.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: There were people from Finland and people from France and England and various other places.
[47:08.720 --> 47:12.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just hope we get that kind of representation at Hope No.
[47:12.200 --> 47:17.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: 9 in July here in New York because it's what the hacker world is all about.
[47:17.780 --> 47:20.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's people from all different hemispheres.
[47:21.300 --> 47:23.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, and with that we've got a couple of calls on the line.
[47:24.120 --> 47:25.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's see who's out there.
[47:26.700 --> 47:27.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[47:27.560 --> 47:28.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on Off The Hook.
[47:28.760 --> 47:29.280]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hello.
[47:29.640 --> 47:30.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello.
[47:32.040 --> 47:33.020]  [SPEAKER_17]: Am I on there?
[47:33.220 --> 47:33.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, indeed you are.
[47:34.100 --> 47:34.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: What's on your mind?
[47:35.200 --> 47:49.020]  [SPEAKER_17]: You said earlier there wasn't any news today, but I thought that you might be talking about the things that happened in California shutting off the cell phone service at public transit stations.
[47:49.780 --> 47:50.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, indeed.
[47:50.600 --> 47:53.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: That was the BART agency, wasn't it?
[47:53.840 --> 47:54.220]  Mm-hmm.
[47:55.140 --> 47:55.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[47:56.100 --> 48:10.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: I was being sarcastic because that was one of the biggest stories we've had in the last couple of weeks and I think I don't know if we have enough time to give it justice tonight but it's a really important story for those that aren't familiar with it.
[48:10.960 --> 48:13.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Basically, there's a protest planned.
[48:14.340 --> 48:23.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, police officers in San Francisco shot a homeless person and the details aren't fully worked out.
[48:23.600 --> 48:27.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: We don't know who was at fault but protected by their past record.
[48:27.740 --> 48:31.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Basically, they don't have a good record on shooting unarmed homeless people.
[48:31.840 --> 48:36.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: And so there's a protest planned to...
[48:37.460 --> 48:40.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: and the police officers...
[48:40.560 --> 48:45.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: The Transportation Administration BART
[48:48.240 --> 48:58.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: preemptively shut down the cell phone towers near the stations so that activists want to be able to communicate with each other which has huge First Amendment ramifications.
[48:59.040 --> 49:02.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: And our friends at Anonymous took to the streets to protest that.
[49:03.940 --> 49:04.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, indeed.
[49:04.500 --> 49:08.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that is a huge story and it's probably far too complex for us to, as you said, give justice.
[49:09.060 --> 49:10.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: But it's definitely worth keeping an eye on.
[49:10.580 --> 49:11.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you very much for your call.
[49:12.160 --> 49:13.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's see who else is out there.
[49:13.600 --> 49:14.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[49:14.320 --> 49:14.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on off the hook.
[49:16.280 --> 49:16.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hello.
[49:17.100 --> 49:17.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello, sir.
[49:34.420 --> 49:34.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you
[49:44.400 --> 49:47.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not in the least, but if you have any information, please let us know.
[49:48.640 --> 49:50.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you very much, and let's see who else is out there.
[49:50.980 --> 49:51.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[49:51.480 --> 49:51.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on off the hook.
[49:54.160 --> 49:54.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Speak up, please.
[49:57.460 --> 49:58.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, you've got to be quicker than that.
[49:59.900 --> 50:01.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: And a very good evening to you.
[50:01.360 --> 50:01.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on off the hook.
[50:02.520 --> 50:03.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: There is a flaw.
[50:03.700 --> 50:07.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: I know that there's a strike in Verizon, but there is a flaw.
[50:07.780 --> 50:10.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not going to make sense out because Verizon's on strike.
[50:10.660 --> 50:11.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're not going to fix it.
[50:11.820 --> 50:12.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: In the 718...
[50:12.780 --> 50:12.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hello?
[50:13.500 --> 50:14.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, wrap it up quick, Rebel.
[50:15.640 --> 50:28.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: 718-225- and 229 exchanges in Bayside Queens, only on payphones if you dial 0-6-9-8-0, which is the old New York telephone carrier access code, it will not get an ANI.
[50:28.900 --> 50:37.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: The operator will ask you for your phone number, and you can give them any number, so long if it's in the 718-212 area code, so long if it's not a payphone.
[50:38.020 --> 50:42.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then you can make free phone calls that way, you can get connected with long distance that way.
[50:43.260 --> 50:50.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Like, if you give them 718-8-9-0-1300, which was the old business office number, that will work.
[50:50.340 --> 50:54.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: That sounds really interesting, and if anyone has any experiences with that, please let us know.
[50:55.360 --> 50:56.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: And who else is out there?
[50:57.140 --> 50:58.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening to you, you're on off the hook.
[50:59.380 --> 51:02.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I was cut off before I was speaking about spoofing, hello?
[51:02.820 --> 51:07.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, indeed, you're speaking about spoofing, but it is far off from the topics we're on today, but please send us an email.
[51:09.400 --> 51:16.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: And yes, the number is 212-209-2900, and I think we've run out of people.
[51:17.000 --> 51:18.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: More people should call us.
[51:18.820 --> 51:20.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: We should spoof some listeners to call us.
[51:21.000 --> 51:22.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: We should spoof some listeners to call us, yes.
[51:23.960 --> 51:24.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Emmanuel, are you still there?
[51:27.100 --> 51:29.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, we're still here in Warsaw.
[51:30.860 --> 51:31.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: How are things down there?
[51:33.000 --> 51:34.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, they're nice.
[51:34.380 --> 51:36.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's a very busy city at night.
[51:36.180 --> 51:41.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's a lot of traffic out here downtown, and a lot of motorsport.
[51:42.140 --> 51:44.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: These guys really tear by quickly.
[51:44.440 --> 51:47.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I think they also work for the bus system, too.
[51:48.200 --> 51:50.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Speaking of traffic, we've got some phone traffic going on now.
[51:50.580 --> 51:51.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's see who else is out there.
[51:52.560 --> 51:53.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening to you.
[51:53.560 --> 51:54.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on off the hook.
[51:55.880 --> 51:57.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening, sir.
[51:57.740 --> 51:58.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, one point.
[51:59.320 --> 52:05.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Verizon is on strike, so they will not fix anything that is not pertinent to anything.
[52:06.540 --> 52:07.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you very much for that.
[52:08.420 --> 52:09.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening to you.
[52:09.380 --> 52:09.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on off the hook.
[52:11.200 --> 52:12.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, this is the menu.
[52:14.860 --> 52:16.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're taking advantage of the substitute teacher, I swear.
[52:17.800 --> 52:19.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening, you're on off the hook.
[52:19.900 --> 52:22.900]  [SPEAKER_19]: Listen, if you guys are going to take questions, don't do MSNBC.
[52:23.200 --> 52:24.500]  [SPEAKER_19]: You've got 10 seconds to answer.
[52:24.660 --> 52:25.180]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's absurd.
[52:25.820 --> 52:27.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: All right, we'll do Fox then.
[52:29.320 --> 52:30.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you very much for that.
[52:30.940 --> 52:32.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening, you're on off the hook.
[52:34.760 --> 52:35.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: You have 10 seconds.
[52:36.620 --> 52:38.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: Take a one-way trip to Cuba, you're communist.
[52:39.320 --> 52:40.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: We did it, less than 10 seconds.
[52:41.080 --> 52:41.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, we'll do that.
[52:42.500 --> 52:44.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening to you, you're on off the hook.
[52:44.340 --> 52:45.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, this is my third call.
[52:45.720 --> 52:57.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: I need to know about, and the audience needs to know about people who conceal their identities, they key in the IRS or the FBI phone numbers to conceal their identity.
[52:57.100 --> 53:00.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: Surely somebody there is sophisticated enough to know about this.
[53:00.280 --> 53:04.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, I don't think anyone here does, but if anyone does, please send us an email and we'll follow up on it.
[53:04.780 --> 53:06.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, the audience needs to know.
[53:06.820 --> 53:08.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: And a very good evening to you.
[53:08.120 --> 53:08.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: You are on off the hook.
[53:09.320 --> 53:09.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello.
[53:10.040 --> 53:10.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello.
[53:10.780 --> 53:18.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, on the labor show with Mimi Rosenberg and Ken Nash, they reported This is not that show that you're calling.
[53:19.020 --> 53:19.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello?
[53:19.860 --> 53:20.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello.
[53:20.660 --> 53:37.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, they reported there were at least 22, I believe, or 24 vehicles hit people going through a scab line, going through a picket line, and I'm sorry, not going through a scab line, going through a picket line at the Verizon strikes.
[53:38.260 --> 53:52.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's a little more violent and brutal than we need the big corporations that are making big that don't pay taxes and get what was also reported on that show, a whole lot of money, of tax money paid to them, to the corporation.
[53:53.220 --> 53:54.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you for that.
[53:56.740 --> 53:57.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: And a very good evening to you.
[53:58.020 --> 53:58.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on Off The Hook.
[54:00.820 --> 54:02.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening, sir.
[54:02.640 --> 54:03.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you.
[54:04.000 --> 54:05.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: And a good evening to you.
[54:05.340 --> 54:05.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on Off The Hook.
[54:06.160 --> 54:06.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[54:08.500 --> 54:09.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: And a good evening to you.
[54:09.920 --> 54:10.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on Off The Hook.
[54:11.520 --> 54:13.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hey, just a quick comment.
[54:13.820 --> 54:18.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: A couple weeks ago, there was an off-the-wall show.
[54:18.300 --> 54:26.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: I just thought it was awesome, the one they did in Seattle, where they walked around town, talked about the local airport and stuff.
[54:26.700 --> 54:28.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: I just wanted to say it was really cool.
[54:28.940 --> 54:31.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: I've listened to it like six, seven times already.
[54:32.200 --> 54:34.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: It was cool, and I'm sure the guys appreciate that.
[54:34.320 --> 54:34.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you very much.
[54:35.820 --> 54:36.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you.
[54:37.380 --> 54:38.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's see who else is out there.
[54:39.100 --> 54:40.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening to you.
[54:40.100 --> 54:40.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on Off The Hook.
[54:43.630 --> 54:44.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: Speak up, please.
[54:45.190 --> 54:45.730]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, hi.
[54:47.030 --> 54:52.010]  [SPEAKER_19]: Technology and the effects it's having on people, I think it's a negative thing.
[54:52.370 --> 54:58.650]  [SPEAKER_19]: Somebody was on the Gary Noe Show a while back saying, hopefully the next generation will learn how to deal with this.
[54:58.790 --> 55:06.670]  [SPEAKER_19]: I feel like the younger generation were flabbergasted with all the new technology, the Internet, iPhones, and everything else.
[55:06.770 --> 55:07.570]  [SPEAKER_19]: What do you think about that?
[55:08.470 --> 55:10.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think it's a distinct possibility.
[55:11.050 --> 55:13.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you're listening, what do you think about that?
[55:13.190 --> 55:15.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: Send us an email, oth@2600.com.
[55:16.050 --> 55:18.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think we've got time for maybe one or two more of these calls.
[55:19.570 --> 55:21.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's see who's out there.
[55:21.310 --> 55:21.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: Very good evening.
[55:22.110 --> 55:22.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on Off The Hook.
[55:22.830 --> 55:23.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[55:23.410 --> 55:28.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'd like to mention, if you still want to make free phone calls, just go to any 718-225.
[55:28.930 --> 55:29.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you.
[55:30.910 --> 55:31.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[55:31.610 --> 55:32.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on Off The Hook.
[55:35.930 --> 55:36.290]  Yes.
[55:36.290 --> 55:39.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm just going to go on, assuming from now on that there is actually about a dozen of him.
[55:44.480 --> 55:50.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, yeah, I think the clock is ticking and it's coming up on time to wrap things up.
[55:50.380 --> 55:52.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, Bernie S.
[55:52.220 --> 55:54.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Emmanuel, Kyle, what do you guys think?
[55:55.600 --> 55:56.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, absolutely.
[55:56.860 --> 56:00.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you for your hard work there.
[56:00.240 --> 56:07.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: And everyone who's listening and who participated in the events over here, let's keep it up and let's move forward.
[56:07.640 --> 56:10.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's so much to talk about and so much to do.
[56:10.060 --> 56:18.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, again, if you're in any of the countries we've mentioned, please contact us at oth@2600.com.
[56:18.980 --> 56:20.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good night from Warsaw.
[56:21.360 --> 56:22.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: And how about you, Bernie S.?
[56:22.720 --> 56:23.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: How are you?
[56:23.780 --> 56:25.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm right here in Gantt, Belgium.
[56:25.980 --> 56:31.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I just want to thank the hosts here at White Space for hosting me.
[56:31.400 --> 56:36.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I look forward to getting in touch with them and sharing ideas.
[56:36.140 --> 56:43.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I want to thank you for being a good substitute teacher there at the WBAI studios tonight, Rob.
[56:43.820 --> 56:44.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Doing my best.
[56:45.580 --> 56:47.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: And on that note, I think we'll wrap it up.
[56:48.460 --> 56:48.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yep.
[56:49.020 --> 56:52.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Once again, send us an email, oth@2600.com.
[56:52.720 --> 56:53.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: For Off The Hook, this is Rob T.
[56:53.780 --> 56:54.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Firefly.
[56:54.180 --> 56:54.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good night.
[01:01:01.130 --> 01:01:02.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ah, yes.
[01:01:03.230 --> 01:01:07.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Off The Hook has music that's actually off the hook.
[01:01:08.150 --> 01:01:09.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, they've got great music.
[01:01:09.910 --> 01:01:10.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: They always do.