[00:25.560 --> 00:29.020] [SPEAKER_16]: And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI, New York.
[00:29.140 --> 00:30.540] [SPEAKER_16]: The time is 7.02.
[00:31.160 --> 00:38.340] [SPEAKER_16]: Stay tuned for a special expanded edition of Off The Hook here on WBAI, New York.
[00:43.450 --> 00:47.990] [SPEAKER_03]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:48.890 --> 00:53.470] [SPEAKER_03]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[00:54.070 --> 00:56.290] [SPEAKER_03]: We couldn't get much worse.
[00:58.470 --> 01:01.750] [SPEAKER_03]: It would, but I best expect the worst.
[01:02.290 --> 01:05.310] [SPEAKER_03]: I hope that's understood, but I can't make a call.
[02:05.930 --> 02:08.550] [SPEAKER_16]: And the very good evening to everybody on the program is Off The Hook.
[02:08.850 --> 02:13.270] [SPEAKER_16]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening, joined tonight by Mike.
[02:13.410 --> 02:13.630] [SPEAKER_16]: Hello.
[02:14.010 --> 02:14.390] [SPEAKER_16]: Dot.ret.
[02:14.690 --> 02:14.850] [SPEAKER_16]: Hey.
[02:15.230 --> 02:15.830] [SPEAKER_16]: Rob T. Firefly.
[02:16.770 --> 02:17.150] [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening.
[02:17.270 --> 02:17.590] [SPEAKER_16]: Red Hat.
[02:17.870 --> 02:18.010] [SPEAKER_16]: Hello.
[02:18.350 --> 02:18.650] [SPEAKER_16]: Kyle.
[02:19.090 --> 02:19.370] [SPEAKER_16]: Hi.
[02:19.750 --> 02:20.290] [SPEAKER_16]: And Jim.
[02:20.690 --> 02:20.890] [SPEAKER_30]: Hello.
[02:21.390 --> 02:22.570] [SPEAKER_16]: Down in Philadelphia, Bernie S.
[02:22.850 --> 02:24.250] [SPEAKER_30]: Greetings from Pennsylvania.
[02:24.710 --> 02:25.170] [SPEAKER_16]: From Pennsylvania.
[02:25.350 --> 02:25.470] [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[02:26.090 --> 02:26.610] [SPEAKER_16]: Good.
[02:26.850 --> 02:35.310] [SPEAKER_16]: We're all here today on a special two-hour edition of Off The Hook as kind of the culmination of the winter fundraiser here at WBA.
[02:35.430 --> 02:38.630] [SPEAKER_16]: I want to thank everybody who has called in for our previous two shows.
[02:38.630 --> 02:49.670] [SPEAKER_16]: We've had a very good response, and we're hoping tonight we'll get double that response because we're on for double the time, and we really have some interesting material for you tonight, some special guests, all kinds of fun things to look forward to.
[02:50.430 --> 02:53.710] [SPEAKER_16]: First, any new business that we want to address?
[02:53.810 --> 02:54.510] [SPEAKER_16]: Anything going on?
[02:54.650 --> 02:58.570] [SPEAKER_10]: I just want to point out how exciting it is that we have five Wednesdays all in February.
[02:59.490 --> 03:00.810] [SPEAKER_16]: Five Wednesdays in February?
[03:00.830 --> 03:01.090] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[03:01.090 --> 03:02.050] [SPEAKER_16]: And this is Leap Year.
[03:02.190 --> 03:02.330] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[03:02.430 --> 03:03.230] [SPEAKER_16]: It's Leap Year Day.
[03:03.530 --> 03:04.090] [SPEAKER_16]: Leap Day, yeah.
[03:04.470 --> 03:12.390] [SPEAKER_16]: In actuality, there was one other program that we did on February 29th, way back at least 10 years ago, and it doesn't happen very often.
[03:12.590 --> 03:15.890] [SPEAKER_16]: I would like to say this is the only time we've ever done a Leap Year show, but it's not.
[03:16.030 --> 03:16.850] [SPEAKER_16]: We've done it before.
[03:17.610 --> 03:22.870] [SPEAKER_16]: But I'd like to know if there are people out there born on the 29th of February, and how old are they?
[03:23.230 --> 03:26.350] [SPEAKER_16]: Do they just age one year per four years, or how does that work?
[03:26.870 --> 03:30.390] [SPEAKER_16]: What kind of complications maybe do you have in your life as a result of that?
[03:30.590 --> 03:30.890] [SPEAKER_16]: Is that right?
[03:30.890 --> 03:32.510] [SPEAKER_06]: They live forever.
[03:33.070 --> 03:33.890] [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe so.
[03:34.030 --> 03:35.910] [SPEAKER_16]: Maybe that's the secret, but I don't think so.
[03:37.590 --> 03:39.030] [SPEAKER_16]: Bernie, anything new from you?
[03:39.530 --> 03:42.270] [SPEAKER_30]: Well, I missed February 29th's birthday by a couple of days.
[03:42.450 --> 03:43.630] [SPEAKER_30]: But I researched this.
[03:43.670 --> 03:47.150] [SPEAKER_30]: I was curious if Off The Hook had ever fallen on a Leap Day before.
[03:47.450 --> 03:52.710] [SPEAKER_30]: And the last Leap Day that happened on a Wednesday was 1984.
[03:53.170 --> 03:56.770] [SPEAKER_30]: But back, you know, back many years ago, we were on Tuesday nights.
[03:57.350 --> 03:57.910] [SPEAKER_16]: That's true.
[03:58.090 --> 04:01.270] [SPEAKER_30]: So that's probably when the Leap Day was on a Tuesday.
[04:02.230 --> 04:03.490] [SPEAKER_16]: It's very easy to look up.
[04:03.570 --> 04:10.450] [SPEAKER_16]: All you have to do is go to www.2600.com/offthehook, and you'll see every single year is represented.
[04:10.610 --> 04:16.150] [SPEAKER_16]: Just keep checking out February's until you find one that has February 29th, and voila, it'll be that simple.
[04:16.310 --> 04:17.550] [SPEAKER_10]: And you only have to look in Leap Years.
[04:18.770 --> 04:19.410] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, exactly.
[04:20.230 --> 04:22.610] [SPEAKER_06]: And you don't even really have to do the looking yourself.
[04:22.670 --> 04:27.950] [SPEAKER_06]: You can very easily type Control F or whatever the keys are to do a search function in your web browser, and it'll do it for you.
[04:28.110 --> 04:28.430] [SPEAKER_16]: Interesting.
[04:28.750 --> 04:30.630] [SPEAKER_16]: Kyle, you're here from Seattle, I believe.
[04:31.010 --> 04:31.510] [SPEAKER_16]: Is that right?
[04:31.950 --> 04:33.570] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's where I was last, Seattle.
[04:33.790 --> 04:34.030] [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[04:34.110 --> 04:34.990] [SPEAKER_16]: And you came here by train.
[04:35.490 --> 04:37.070] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I took a train across the country.
[04:37.070 --> 04:37.930] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, good for you.
[04:38.030 --> 04:38.430] [SPEAKER_16]: Good for you.
[04:38.550 --> 04:39.510] [SPEAKER_16]: And do you recommend people do that?
[04:39.830 --> 04:46.330] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, I think anybody who's interested in a sort of mellow way to travel should take the train and see what it's like.
[04:46.570 --> 04:47.690] [SPEAKER_09]: Because it takes how long?
[04:48.390 --> 04:49.730] [SPEAKER_08]: It's like 42 hours.
[04:50.010 --> 04:52.310] [SPEAKER_08]: So it's a commitment, but...
[04:52.310 --> 04:53.710] [SPEAKER_16]: Let me just stop you right there, Rick.
[04:53.790 --> 04:59.310] [SPEAKER_16]: I note some skepticism in your voice there that you don't think maybe traveling by train is the best way to go.
[04:59.570 --> 05:03.350] [SPEAKER_09]: He said it was mellow, and I thought maybe it had something to do with the fact that it was such a long trip.
[05:03.470 --> 05:05.210] [SPEAKER_16]: It is a long trip, but you know what?
[05:05.770 --> 05:06.830] [SPEAKER_16]: How many days was it?
[05:07.290 --> 05:11.790] [SPEAKER_08]: So it was like two or three days for the one leg, and then one other overnight.
[05:12.130 --> 05:15.250] [SPEAKER_08]: So a full 24, basically, for the leg from Chicago to New York.
[05:15.350 --> 05:15.510] [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[05:15.510 --> 05:17.270] [SPEAKER_10]: So when did you leave Seattle?
[05:17.590 --> 05:26.290] [SPEAKER_08]: I left Tuesday at half past five on Tuesday, and I arrived in New York at 7 p.m.
[05:26.450 --> 05:26.890] [SPEAKER_08]: on Friday.
[05:27.490 --> 05:30.250] [SPEAKER_06]: I just want to say, don't blame the mode of travel.
[05:30.450 --> 05:36.530] [SPEAKER_06]: It's not the train industry's fault that we don't have high-speed rails in America.
[05:37.850 --> 05:39.670] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I'm not blaming the mode of travel.
[05:39.850 --> 05:41.110] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm blaming Kyle for taking it.
[05:41.130 --> 05:42.310] [SPEAKER_16]: It just sort of is their fault.
[05:42.950 --> 05:44.470] [SPEAKER_06]: It's not just their fault.
[05:44.650 --> 05:51.310] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, there's also... there's a whole host of reasons in America why, for some strange reason, we don't want to have high-speed rails over here.
[05:51.310 --> 05:53.270] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, people do debate things in this country a lot.
[05:53.370 --> 06:00.570] [SPEAKER_16]: They debate things that are good, like health care, and high-speed rail, and long life, and education, and things like that.
[06:00.650 --> 06:02.030] [SPEAKER_09]: And those things don't win, apparently.
[06:02.250 --> 06:02.490] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[06:02.670 --> 06:07.350] [SPEAKER_16]: But in this particular case, though, you know, people say, oh yeah, it's more expensive to take a train cross-country.
[06:07.470 --> 06:07.870] [SPEAKER_16]: It takes longer.
[06:07.950 --> 06:09.530] [SPEAKER_16]: But you know, you get room and board.
[06:09.550 --> 06:10.470] [SPEAKER_16]: You get a place to sleep.
[06:10.470 --> 06:11.190] [SPEAKER_16]: You get meals.
[06:11.890 --> 06:19.410] [SPEAKER_16]: And when you add in all the cost, flying and doing all that, if you're going to, you know, a distant city someplace, it actually is much cheaper and much more relaxing.
[06:19.550 --> 06:21.030] [SPEAKER_16]: No TSA to worry about?
[06:21.030 --> 06:21.410] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[06:21.530 --> 06:24.150] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I don't want to elaborate on the nicer things too much.
[06:24.250 --> 06:29.330] [SPEAKER_08]: You guys might get really into it, as far as the meals and the wine tastings and all of that.
[06:29.410 --> 06:30.330] [SPEAKER_16]: There's wine tastings.
[06:30.390 --> 06:33.250] [SPEAKER_16]: When's the last time you had a wine tasting on a Delta flight?
[06:33.450 --> 06:37.510] [SPEAKER_08]: But I did... I was able to do, like, cool things, like bring my bike.
[06:37.510 --> 06:38.670] [SPEAKER_08]: That was, like, fairly easy.
[06:38.830 --> 06:40.870] [SPEAKER_08]: It was, like, $5 for the handling fee.
[06:40.950 --> 06:43.370] [SPEAKER_08]: And so I brought my bicycle, which is really cool.
[06:43.390 --> 06:44.830] [SPEAKER_08]: I think it's more complicated on planes.
[06:44.950 --> 06:51.990] [SPEAKER_16]: He rode to the train station on his bicycle, got on the train, took it cross-country, and got off the train, and rode his bicycle again.
[06:52.270 --> 06:52.530] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[06:52.690 --> 06:55.150] [SPEAKER_08]: And the TSA remark is so spot-on.
[06:55.330 --> 06:57.950] [SPEAKER_08]: Like, there's really no scrutiny.
[06:58.170 --> 07:02.250] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, you just get on the train, and you associate with your attendant, and it's pretty easy going.
[07:02.390 --> 07:04.470] [SPEAKER_08]: Even the bags you check, they don't really look at.
[07:04.510 --> 07:06.090] [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't see any x-ray machines or anything.
[07:06.230 --> 07:07.470] [SPEAKER_04]: I have an experiment for you.
[07:07.530 --> 07:15.950] [SPEAKER_04]: Next time you get your bike onto a train, open up all the doors between the cars, then go in the back car, ride your bike to the front of the train while it's moving, then do the math and see how fast you just rode.
[07:15.950 --> 07:17.470] [SPEAKER_04]: The biggest thing he tried was.
[07:17.990 --> 07:19.610] [SPEAKER_16]: That's how he met the entire crew.
[07:20.810 --> 07:23.730] [SPEAKER_16]: Now, Bernie, it strikes me that this is something that you might be interested in.
[07:24.130 --> 07:24.390] [SPEAKER_21]: Okay.
[07:24.650 --> 07:24.930] [SPEAKER_21]: What?
[07:25.030 --> 07:25.570] [SPEAKER_21]: Riding on trains?
[07:25.630 --> 07:25.850] [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[07:26.510 --> 07:26.950] [SPEAKER_21]: Definitely.
[07:27.150 --> 07:28.850] [SPEAKER_16]: Riding on trains for long distances.
[07:29.230 --> 07:29.630] [SPEAKER_30]: Absolutely.
[07:30.610 --> 07:41.810] [SPEAKER_30]: My most recent memorable train experience was in Shanghai, where I landed, I guess it was about two and a half years ago, at the Shanghai airport.
[07:41.810 --> 07:48.190] [SPEAKER_30]: And I had to get to the Shanghai main train station from there, so you have to take a connecting train.
[07:48.370 --> 07:57.690] [SPEAKER_30]: So I get on this train, and it turns out that it's this high-speed magnetic levitation train, which we don't have any of in this country.
[07:57.730 --> 07:59.290] [SPEAKER_30]: And I was totally not expecting this.
[07:59.350 --> 08:00.090] [SPEAKER_30]: I had no idea.
[08:00.350 --> 08:01.630] [SPEAKER_30]: The thing took off.
[08:01.750 --> 08:06.650] [SPEAKER_30]: It was really quiet with just this little whine sound from the electric motors.
[08:07.330 --> 08:11.310] [SPEAKER_30]: And there was an odometer at the front.
[08:11.470 --> 08:13.530] [SPEAKER_30]: You're going well over 200 kilometers an hour.
[08:13.690 --> 08:15.530] [SPEAKER_30]: And it was just a blur.
[08:15.650 --> 08:16.390] [SPEAKER_30]: You're looking out the windows.
[08:16.390 --> 08:18.670] [SPEAKER_30]: And I thought, this is how it should be.
[08:19.190 --> 08:22.270] [SPEAKER_30]: And I was just really disappointed that we don't have that in the United States.
[08:22.410 --> 08:24.070] [SPEAKER_16]: It should be that there's a blur through our windows?
[08:24.330 --> 08:24.530] [SPEAKER_30]: Yes.
[08:24.830 --> 08:25.050] [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[08:25.250 --> 08:25.450] [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[08:25.470 --> 08:26.130] [SPEAKER_16]: I'll keep that in mind.
[08:26.150 --> 08:29.890] [SPEAKER_16]: I'll try to provide that for you whenever I'm in charge of giving you a window.
[08:30.910 --> 08:35.070] [SPEAKER_16]: But now, this particular train, this was the train from Shanghai.
[08:35.330 --> 08:36.450] [SPEAKER_16]: Was it to the airport in Shanghai?
[08:36.830 --> 08:37.030] [SPEAKER_30]: No.
[08:37.350 --> 08:37.790] [SPEAKER_30]: Well, yeah.
[08:37.890 --> 08:41.090] [SPEAKER_30]: It goes between the airport and the main central Shanghai train station.
[08:41.110 --> 08:41.310] [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[08:41.330 --> 08:42.050] [SPEAKER_16]: I've been on that train.
[08:42.170 --> 08:44.390] [SPEAKER_16]: It takes about, what, 15 minutes or something?
[08:44.490 --> 08:45.530] [SPEAKER_16]: It goes extremely fast.
[08:45.630 --> 08:46.510] [SPEAKER_30]: It's a wonderful trip.
[08:46.570 --> 08:47.630] [SPEAKER_30]: It's just really fast.
[08:47.750 --> 08:50.710] [SPEAKER_30]: And there's no vibration because it's magnetic levitation.
[08:50.950 --> 08:51.730] [SPEAKER_30]: It's fast.
[08:51.850 --> 08:52.330] [SPEAKER_30]: It's quiet.
[08:52.490 --> 08:53.290] [SPEAKER_30]: It's modern.
[08:53.710 --> 08:55.950] [SPEAKER_09]: How far does it have to go in that 15 minutes?
[08:56.010 --> 08:56.490] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm just curious.
[08:56.490 --> 08:57.910] [SPEAKER_30]: I'm not really sure of the distance.
[08:58.310 --> 08:59.490] [SPEAKER_30]: But we could do the math.
[08:59.650 --> 09:03.510] [SPEAKER_30]: It's like, I was over 200 kilometers an hour, and it takes about 15 minutes.
[09:03.750 --> 09:05.810] [SPEAKER_30]: So, whip out your calculators.
[09:06.070 --> 09:06.550] [SPEAKER_09]: So, about 50 kilometers.
[09:06.790 --> 09:06.930] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[09:07.130 --> 09:14.630] [SPEAKER_16]: I was fantasizing one day maybe they could do something like that, put a train like that in lower Manhattan and go to JFK or something like that and get there in five or six minutes.
[09:15.030 --> 09:15.810] [SPEAKER_16]: Wouldn't that be cool?
[09:16.550 --> 09:17.050] [SPEAKER_16]: That would be cool.
[09:17.050 --> 09:18.790] [SPEAKER_16]: But there's all kinds of reasons not to do that.
[09:19.770 --> 09:20.030] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[09:20.610 --> 09:20.970] [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[09:21.190 --> 09:21.550] [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[09:21.610 --> 09:24.690] [SPEAKER_16]: So, that's what has been going on with one person anyway.
[09:25.450 --> 09:34.850] [SPEAKER_16]: All kinds of other things have been happening, obviously, regarding hacking, regarding, I think WikiLeaks is involved in something lately.
[09:35.130 --> 09:35.990] [SPEAKER_16]: Anybody know about this?
[09:36.190 --> 09:36.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[09:36.470 --> 09:46.250] [SPEAKER_10]: They released a cache of documents that, I guess, Anonymous will just say they found them from a company called Stratfor, which is some... I don't really understand what they do.
[09:46.430 --> 09:49.050] [SPEAKER_10]: There's some sort of, like, private intelligence firm.
[09:49.270 --> 09:50.590] [SPEAKER_16]: Right now, they do damage control.
[09:50.870 --> 09:51.030] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[09:51.050 --> 09:51.750] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's important.
[09:51.830 --> 09:53.590] [SPEAKER_10]: But I don't know what they did before that.
[09:53.930 --> 09:55.810] [SPEAKER_10]: But there's some interesting stuff in there.
[09:56.470 --> 09:57.690] [SPEAKER_30]: Five million emails.
[09:57.930 --> 09:58.490] [SPEAKER_15]: What's that?
[09:58.610 --> 09:59.250] [SPEAKER_15]: Five million emails?
[09:59.390 --> 09:59.470] [SPEAKER_15]: What?
[10:00.930 --> 10:02.630] [SPEAKER_15]: They lost five million emails?
[10:02.790 --> 10:04.430] [SPEAKER_30]: Well, I think they still have them.
[10:04.690 --> 10:18.390] [SPEAKER_30]: They just inadvertently loaned copies of five million emails between all their strategic customers, which amounts to all kinds of government agencies, intelligence agencies.
[10:19.030 --> 10:37.770] [SPEAKER_30]: And rather amusingly, 4,000 of those emails mentioned WikiLeaks or Julian Assange, because the government has been hiring companies like Stratfor to come up with the strategies to go against WikiLeaks and, you know, shut them down.
[10:38.450 --> 10:39.290] [SPEAKER_30]: So, you know...
[10:39.290 --> 10:45.170] [SPEAKER_10]: Let me tell you what's a bad strategy for dealing with WikiLeaks, is sending your emails about it to them.
[10:45.450 --> 10:47.150] [SPEAKER_10]: This seems very poorly thought out.
[10:47.350 --> 10:57.510] [SPEAKER_10]: And frankly, the government, like, for all their flaws, usually doesn't lose five million emails at a time, if only because they're too incompetent to build a single server to hold all five million.
[10:58.310 --> 11:01.890] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't really understand what is gained by this sort of outsourcing.
[11:02.290 --> 11:08.870] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I would consider it just a very thorough backup system that now the entire world has copies of this as well.
[11:08.970 --> 11:24.230] [SPEAKER_16]: But it really strikes me that, wow, how incompetent can these people get, where they're talking about just this, and all of their sensitive information gets found by the very people they're talking about and distributed using that particular network.
[11:24.230 --> 11:26.190] [SPEAKER_16]: It's comical.
[11:26.330 --> 11:32.970] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, was there any encryption on these emails or any kind of security, or were they just sitting on an email server somewhere ready for the taking?
[11:33.410 --> 11:34.230] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[11:34.310 --> 11:35.050] [SPEAKER_10]: I didn't find them.
[11:35.290 --> 11:35.410] [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[11:35.730 --> 11:35.910] [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[11:35.990 --> 11:37.930] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, whoever did, I'm sure will tell us.
[11:38.030 --> 11:42.890] [SPEAKER_16]: But I would imagine whatever you think is the least amount of security they could have possibly had.
[11:42.990 --> 11:43.590] [SPEAKER_16]: That's what they had.
[11:43.690 --> 11:43.830] [SPEAKER_16]: Sure.
[11:44.010 --> 11:45.930] [SPEAKER_16]: I'm pretty sure, because that's what we notice all the time.
[11:46.390 --> 11:49.570] [SPEAKER_16]: We're going to be getting into that in great detail in just a couple of minutes.
[11:49.630 --> 11:57.990] [SPEAKER_16]: But first, I just wanted to let people know that we have some additional hackerspace packages.
[11:58.750 --> 12:00.210] [SPEAKER_16]: We had a lot of demand for this.
[12:00.330 --> 12:04.850] [SPEAKER_16]: So we have a limited amount that's still available from our previous show two weeks ago.
[12:04.990 --> 12:08.990] [SPEAKER_16]: Bernie, do you think you might be able to describe what's contained in these packages?
[12:08.990 --> 12:09.610] [SPEAKER_16]: Wow.
[12:09.750 --> 12:11.210] [SPEAKER_30]: It was a lot of stuff in that package.
[12:11.290 --> 12:11.710] [SPEAKER_30]: It was.
[12:11.970 --> 12:25.430] [SPEAKER_30]: This is a nice package consisting of a great book called Hack This, 24 amazing projects from hackerspaces around the world written by our friend John Bachtell.
[12:25.710 --> 12:26.950] [SPEAKER_30]: I hope I pronounced his name right.
[12:27.590 --> 12:30.570] [SPEAKER_30]: These were donated by publisher Q Publishing.
[12:31.330 --> 12:35.210] [SPEAKER_30]: And these will be signed copies by the author who was on our last show a couple weeks ago.
[12:35.270 --> 12:38.290] [SPEAKER_30]: And he's been on talking about the Cult of Lego book and some other books he's written.
[12:38.670 --> 12:43.490] [SPEAKER_30]: Along with that, we have some really neat stuff from hackerspaces around the world.
[12:44.150 --> 12:59.650] [SPEAKER_30]: I contacted a bunch of hackerspaces that are in that book and a few others from around the world as far away as Australia and Shanghai and got them to send us a bunch of stickers and buttons.
[13:00.230 --> 13:08.070] [SPEAKER_30]: And like the one in Perth, Australia gave us, sent us a bunch of these laser cut key chains that they made with a laser cutter.
[13:08.370 --> 13:19.070] [SPEAKER_30]: And they sent us all this stuff to give away to people who call 212-209-2950 and pledge to support WBAI because it's a great cause.
[13:19.070 --> 13:20.370] [SPEAKER_30]: And they're all in it.
[13:20.810 --> 13:23.830] [SPEAKER_30]: In addition to that, there's more.
[13:24.050 --> 13:24.570] [SPEAKER_30]: There's more.
[13:24.750 --> 13:29.890] [SPEAKER_30]: And this is like about a dozen those hackerspace stickers and buttons and key chains and stuff.
[13:30.970 --> 13:38.610] [SPEAKER_30]: There is an amazing hackerspace passport, which we talked about in the last show, but it looks like a regular passport, but it's a diplomatic passport.
[13:38.710 --> 13:41.270] [SPEAKER_30]: It has a fist holding a soldering iron.
[13:41.510 --> 13:46.310] [SPEAKER_30]: And it has a... it was designed by our friend Mitch Altman as an open-source design.
[13:46.550 --> 13:49.150] [SPEAKER_30]: And Mitch made 2,600 of them in his first run.
[13:49.910 --> 13:52.290] [SPEAKER_30]: And then he couldn't make any more for various reasons.
[13:52.470 --> 14:02.210] [SPEAKER_30]: So the fine folks at Spark Fund Electronics had a bunch of them printed up and they donated them to WBAI for us to give away.
[14:02.550 --> 14:11.930] [SPEAKER_30]: And these hackerspace passports, they look like a regular passport, but you go around to different hackerspaces, many of which have a special rubber stamp for their hackerspace.
[14:11.950 --> 14:12.970] [SPEAKER_30]: And you can get it stamped.
[14:13.130 --> 14:14.090] [SPEAKER_30]: It's just kind of a neat thing.
[14:14.130 --> 14:18.070] [SPEAKER_30]: As you go around visiting hackerspaces, you can get it stamped just like you would if you're going into another country.
[14:18.870 --> 14:19.830] [SPEAKER_30]: So we have that.
[14:20.750 --> 14:21.070] [SPEAKER_30]: And...
[14:21.430 --> 14:22.050] [SPEAKER_30]: geez, what else?
[14:22.090 --> 14:25.190] [SPEAKER_30]: We have a bunch of DVDs about hackerspaces from the Hoop Conferences.
[14:25.290 --> 14:28.650] [SPEAKER_16]: We have a whole bunch of DVDs dating back to...
[14:28.650 --> 14:33.870] [SPEAKER_16]: Oh gosh, I think it was H2K2, one of the very first Hoop Conferences, talking about hackerspaces.
[14:34.010 --> 14:35.010] [SPEAKER_16]: And you get to see...
[14:35.010 --> 14:35.630] [SPEAKER_16]: I know, you know what?
[14:35.650 --> 14:38.990] [SPEAKER_16]: It was Beyond HOPE in 1997 with the L0pht.
[14:39.090 --> 14:42.450] [SPEAKER_16]: People from the L0pht were part of that conference.
[14:42.450 --> 14:44.550] [SPEAKER_16]: And that was one of the earliest hackerspaces.
[14:44.790 --> 14:53.230] [SPEAKER_16]: So you can see the evolution through the very wide array of talks that have been given at the eight Hoop Conferences that have taken place so far.
[14:53.330 --> 15:06.850] [SPEAKER_16]: So you'll get all of those DVDs in addition to the hackerspace passport, to the stickers, the book, of course, and the buttons and whatever else is thrown into that package.
[15:06.950 --> 15:07.710] [SPEAKER_16]: Are we leaving anything out?
[15:07.790 --> 15:11.550] [SPEAKER_16]: That's all for a pledge of $75, 212-209-2950.
[15:11.550 --> 15:14.510] [SPEAKER_16]: Again, leftover from last time, limited amount.
[15:14.650 --> 15:19.050] [SPEAKER_16]: We're just doing that as kind of a prelude to what we're really offering tonight that's brand new.
[15:19.870 --> 15:20.670] [SPEAKER_30]: Good stuff.
[15:20.810 --> 15:22.850] [SPEAKER_30]: 212-209-2950.
[15:23.210 --> 15:39.670] [SPEAKER_30]: I mean, besides getting all this great hackerspace-related stuff, which is going to give you countless hours of amusement, entertainment, and edification, you're going to support a great radio station, WBAI, WBAI, which is the only station that's going to air the kind of stuff we talk about,
[15:40.150 --> 15:43.810] [SPEAKER_30]: hackerspaces and the stuff that we're going to be talking about real soon.
[15:44.410 --> 15:44.750] [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[15:44.770 --> 15:45.830] [SPEAKER_16]: We have one call on the line.
[15:45.910 --> 15:46.850] [SPEAKER_16]: We had two a moment ago.
[15:47.630 --> 15:49.450] [SPEAKER_16]: And I want to see two more come in.
[15:49.530 --> 15:54.850] [SPEAKER_16]: When we see two more come in, then we're going to move on to the next segment in this particular two-hour program.
[15:55.350 --> 16:02.590] [SPEAKER_16]: Now, we know from the number of people that have stopped us in the streets and called us in the middle of the night demanding these premiums that...
[16:02.590 --> 16:04.630] [SPEAKER_16]: And really, it's kind of rude sometimes by the way people do this.
[16:04.710 --> 16:09.350] [SPEAKER_16]: But people do demand these things because they hear it on the radio, and it's really good.
[16:09.450 --> 16:13.150] [SPEAKER_16]: And sometimes they can't listen live, and they miss out on the opportunity, so they get kind of agitated.
[16:13.210 --> 16:14.430] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, this is your chance, all right?
[16:14.650 --> 16:20.290] [SPEAKER_16]: It's your chance to call in and get an amazing package, learn all about hackerspace projects.
[16:21.050 --> 16:26.830] [SPEAKER_16]: And if you're one of those people that have accosted us in the last couple of weeks, this is your opportunity.
[16:26.950 --> 16:28.830] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[16:29.130 --> 16:30.050] [SPEAKER_16]: Pledge is $75.
[16:30.350 --> 16:34.830] [SPEAKER_16]: Gets you the full hackerspace package of the book, the passport, the DVDs, the stickers, the buttons.
[16:35.230 --> 16:36.290] [SPEAKER_16]: The whole works.
[16:36.510 --> 16:39.090] [SPEAKER_16]: It's really pretty incredible.
[16:40.490 --> 16:41.630] [SPEAKER_16]: And go ahead, Rob.
[16:41.810 --> 16:53.830] [SPEAKER_04]: And I should mention for those of you who listen to us on podcasts and rebroadcasts and things like that, who always ask us after the fact if they can get our premium We can only give our premiums during the live broadcast of our show.
[16:54.010 --> 17:03.010] [SPEAKER_04]: But if there's some other point in time in which you'd like to support our show and our station, you can go to WBAI.org, and there's a donate function on there to donate to your favorite show.
[17:03.150 --> 17:10.170] [SPEAKER_04]: And if you choose off the hook, then the donation will be credited toward keeping this particular show on the air and keeping our station on the air.
[17:10.330 --> 17:15.010] [SPEAKER_04]: We can't give you our premiums for that, but there are some WBAI premiums that they have of their own to offer you for that.
[17:15.070 --> 17:17.290] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, there's a reason, because these are donated.
[17:17.290 --> 17:21.150] [SPEAKER_16]: As you say, they're donated by people that are very generous to us.
[17:21.150 --> 17:22.230] [SPEAKER_16]: And think about it.
[17:22.330 --> 17:34.950] [SPEAKER_16]: If we had these available 24 hours a day, seven days a week, lots of people would go out of business, lots of companies could have been, because we're offering them for nothing to the radio station, giving them away to the radio station to entice you to call us.
[17:35.010 --> 17:36.330] [SPEAKER_16]: And I see one person is calling in now.
[17:36.410 --> 17:37.170] [SPEAKER_16]: I want to thank that person.
[17:37.670 --> 17:41.030] [SPEAKER_16]: All it takes is one other person calling in, and we can move on to the next segment.
[17:42.210 --> 17:44.690] [SPEAKER_16]: It's to entice you to call in and support this place.
[17:44.810 --> 17:49.570] [SPEAKER_16]: You're getting something really cool, but you're also investing in a most remarkable place.
[17:49.570 --> 17:59.770] [SPEAKER_09]: But at the end of the day, you're getting the radio station, and if that's important to you, even if you're listening to this on the podcast, please consider donating to WBAI at WBAI.org.
[18:00.210 --> 18:02.890] [SPEAKER_16]: Kyle, in Seattle, do you get many radio stations like this?
[18:04.150 --> 18:05.110] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, absolutely.
[18:05.110 --> 18:08.410] [SPEAKER_08]: There's a pretty strong community radio station presence.
[18:08.630 --> 18:09.750] [SPEAKER_16]: As compared to WBAI?
[18:11.210 --> 18:12.410] [SPEAKER_08]: It's not nearly as big.
[18:12.550 --> 18:14.310] [SPEAKER_08]: It's not going to reach nearly as many people.
[18:14.710 --> 18:15.190] [SPEAKER_08]: Absolutely.
[18:15.590 --> 18:16.190] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean...
[18:16.190 --> 18:18.130] [SPEAKER_16]: Are there programs like Off The Hook on those stations?
[18:19.250 --> 18:20.850] [SPEAKER_16]: No, no, no, not like that.
[18:21.070 --> 18:22.410] [SPEAKER_16]: No hacker radio programs?
[18:22.630 --> 18:23.670] [SPEAKER_16]: No, no, no.
[18:23.950 --> 18:24.450] [SPEAKER_16]: I wonder why.
[18:24.610 --> 18:26.250] [SPEAKER_16]: Why is it that people are so afraid of hackers?
[18:26.490 --> 18:33.270] [SPEAKER_16]: Could it be that, you know, because they have access to 2 million emails from various large organizations that really don't want them to?
[18:33.390 --> 18:35.230] [SPEAKER_16]: Could it be because they...
[18:35.230 --> 18:35.990] [SPEAKER_16]: What's this?
[18:36.150 --> 18:36.750] [SPEAKER_16]: 5 million.
[18:36.830 --> 18:37.730] [SPEAKER_16]: 5 million, I'm sorry.
[18:37.930 --> 18:40.170] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, maybe they lost 3 million and they still have 2 million left.
[18:40.170 --> 18:41.450] [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, well, they have a lot.
[18:41.630 --> 18:51.050] [SPEAKER_16]: And, you know, organizations like the Central Intelligence Agency and the World Trade Organization and all kinds of other entities that hackers seem to come up against.
[18:51.190 --> 18:53.990] [SPEAKER_16]: Maybe that's why radio stations feel it's too hot.
[18:54.090 --> 18:54.410] [SPEAKER_16]: But you know what?
[18:54.470 --> 18:55.530] [SPEAKER_16]: Not here at WBAI.
[18:55.650 --> 18:59.330] [SPEAKER_16]: Here at WBAI, it's something that we embrace.
[18:59.450 --> 19:00.330] [SPEAKER_16]: We embrace controversy.
[19:00.610 --> 19:02.610] [SPEAKER_16]: Before us, we had the Occupy Wall Street show.
[19:03.430 --> 19:09.410] [SPEAKER_16]: If you listen to this radio station throughout the course of a week, you will hear so much diversity, so much controversy.
[19:09.410 --> 19:10.450] [SPEAKER_08]: I just want to add one thing.
[19:10.570 --> 19:16.030] [SPEAKER_08]: Like, one thing I have noticed in the Northwest is that stations are moving towards a community-based model because it works.
[19:16.670 --> 19:21.010] [SPEAKER_08]: One of my favorite classical stations, King FM, is in their first year of community radio.
[19:21.130 --> 19:24.770] [SPEAKER_08]: And they have pledge drives just like a lot of the other community stations out there.
[19:24.910 --> 19:26.270] [SPEAKER_08]: So it's a model that works.
[19:26.390 --> 19:29.290] [SPEAKER_08]: So please call in 212-209-2950.
[19:29.730 --> 19:31.310] [SPEAKER_04]: And also, this is New York here.
[19:32.650 --> 19:35.310] [SPEAKER_04]: We're seeing a great community radio movement in other places.
[19:35.410 --> 19:41.350] [SPEAKER_04]: But right here, it would be truly impossible for the insane string of events that led to this station's existence.
[19:41.450 --> 19:43.210] [SPEAKER_04]: It would be impossible for that to happen again.
[19:43.410 --> 19:48.590] [SPEAKER_04]: This is a one-of-a-kind place here at WBAI, and it's only been kept on the air for the past 50 years because of you.
[19:48.750 --> 20:01.190] [SPEAKER_16]: And that insane chain of events, by the way, involved back in, I believe, 1960, someone listening to Pacifica Radio out in California, falling in love with the program and the alternative viewpoints and just the controversy.
[20:01.750 --> 20:06.950] [SPEAKER_16]: This person happened to own a radio station here in New York City at 99.5 FM and offered...
[20:06.950 --> 20:07.890] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, people do this.
[20:07.890 --> 20:10.710] [SPEAKER_16]: ...offered to donate the radio station to Pacifica.
[20:10.850 --> 20:12.390] [SPEAKER_16]: Of course, he wasn't believed at first.
[20:12.610 --> 20:15.090] [SPEAKER_16]: He got hung up on a few times thinking of some kind of crank call.
[20:15.590 --> 20:17.770] [SPEAKER_16]: But eventually, yeah, you know what?
[20:17.770 --> 20:18.510] [SPEAKER_16]: I think he was legit.
[20:18.930 --> 20:22.790] [SPEAKER_16]: And we've been operating since 1960 solely on listener contributions.
[20:23.090 --> 20:24.510] [SPEAKER_16]: Isn't that the most amazing thing?
[20:24.770 --> 20:26.290] [SPEAKER_16]: 52 years of this.
[20:26.290 --> 20:28.510] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, it's very amazing.
[20:28.730 --> 20:39.630] [SPEAKER_06]: And while I'm sure that those of you who are listening to us right now may not agree with everything you hear on the station, but the one thing you can't ignore is the fact that the station pushes the button in so many ways.
[20:39.630 --> 20:46.930] [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm sure there's plenty of other programs that you might be interested in, such as the Occupy Wall Street show that I was on before, the various science programs, or just all sorts of other things.
[20:47.570 --> 20:50.170] [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, people shouldn't get too relaxed.
[20:50.310 --> 20:57.570] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, you might hear these pledge drives come and go, and you know that eventually it's going to end and the station will still be here.
[20:57.750 --> 21:01.310] [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, that only happens because people are pledging.
[21:01.490 --> 21:08.450] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, because if they didn't pledge, then maybe the station would be here after the fun drive, but would it be there six months after the fun drive?
[21:08.670 --> 21:09.490] [SPEAKER_16]: That's always the real question.
[21:09.690 --> 21:10.770] [SPEAKER_16]: Bills have to be paid.
[21:11.030 --> 21:12.330] [SPEAKER_16]: Electricity can get turned off.
[21:12.790 --> 21:16.730] [SPEAKER_16]: You can lose leases and equipment can break down and not get fixed.
[21:16.850 --> 21:26.890] [SPEAKER_06]: Not to mention, if they're, you know, all this great programming that we are speaking of could start getting cut less adventurous, you know, and so it's always good.
[21:26.890 --> 21:28.370] [SPEAKER_06]: If you like what you hear, support.
[21:28.670 --> 21:30.330] [SPEAKER_09]: And the thing is that people do care.
[21:30.490 --> 21:30.990] [SPEAKER_09]: People do care.
[21:31.130 --> 21:36.970] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, you know, there was a, I think it was April Fool's once when, you know, we turned WBAI into a country station for 20 minutes.
[21:37.170 --> 21:37.830] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I still...
[21:37.830 --> 21:41.930] [SPEAKER_09]: And there was a lot of, not backlash, but, you know, people were upset.
[21:42.030 --> 21:42.410] [SPEAKER_09]: What happened?
[21:42.490 --> 21:43.590] [SPEAKER_09]: Where did WBAI go?
[21:44.130 --> 21:52.370] [SPEAKER_09]: And so, you know, that just goes to show that it's really an important voice here in New York and, you know, the only way it's going to stay on the air is if you call and pledge.
[21:52.370 --> 21:54.770] [SPEAKER_16]: It doesn't seem like reality until it actually happens.
[21:54.990 --> 22:12.870] [SPEAKER_06]: I was actually very impressed by that because we had a lot of people calling the number which we put out there during every fun drive which is 212-209-2950 and somehow these people had these numbers stashed away in their drawers somewhere and when WBAI turned to a country station they all started calling this number.
[22:12.930 --> 22:13.770] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, they called all numbers.
[22:13.930 --> 22:15.010] [SPEAKER_16]: They started visiting.
[22:15.310 --> 22:28.630] [SPEAKER_16]: People were very concerned and there's nothing worse than knowing that you had something amazing and you let it slip through your hands and that's the kind of thing that definitely can happen if listeners don't stand up and support what they believe in.
[22:28.710 --> 22:31.790] [SPEAKER_16]: Not just in this particular case in general throughout life.
[22:31.910 --> 22:32.910] [SPEAKER_16]: That's how it works.
[22:33.030 --> 22:34.330] [SPEAKER_16]: You have to support the things that matter.
[22:34.330 --> 22:36.170] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[22:36.390 --> 22:41.270] [SPEAKER_16]: Now, Bernie, I know that you're the one who can get phone calls to come in because you always do.
[22:41.850 --> 22:44.610] [SPEAKER_16]: So, let's see if you can get that last phone call to come in.
[22:44.710 --> 22:46.130] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[22:46.410 --> 22:47.610] [SPEAKER_30]: Frankly, I think that's what it's about.
[22:47.870 --> 22:48.410] [SPEAKER_30]: Go ahead.
[22:48.510 --> 23:08.350] [SPEAKER_30]: I think it's not lost on most of our listeners that this is an election year for a general election and there's a lot of ideologies floating around on the mass media and there seems to be a lot of people saying government should not be funding public media,
[23:08.630 --> 23:10.670] [SPEAKER_30]: public radio, public television, that sort of thing.
[23:10.790 --> 23:21.630] [SPEAKER_30]: If you believe that, if you believe your tax dollars should not fund radio stations or TV stations or other public media, then this is a medium you can support.
[23:21.630 --> 23:28.390] [SPEAKER_30]: WBAI accepts no tax dollars, no corporate sponsorships or advertising.
[23:28.690 --> 23:38.970] [SPEAKER_30]: So, even if you don't agree with most of the ideologies that are broadcast on the station, you should support for its business model, which is listener-supported radio.
[23:39.110 --> 23:50.090] [SPEAKER_30]: It's as grassroots as it gets, it's as libertarian as it gets, and I encourage listeners to call 212-209-2950 to support this kind of listener-supported radio.
[23:50.890 --> 23:51.930] [SPEAKER_16]: I think you did it, Bernie.
[23:52.030 --> 23:52.650] [SPEAKER_16]: You got a call.
[23:52.950 --> 23:56.430] [SPEAKER_16]: So, thank you for that and thank you for the person calling in.
[23:56.710 --> 23:59.370] [SPEAKER_16]: And if there's someone else who is about to call in, don't stop.
[23:59.610 --> 24:02.170] [SPEAKER_16]: We still have a few of those Hackerspace packages left.
[24:02.630 --> 24:05.650] [SPEAKER_16]: Again, you'll get the amazing Hackerspace.
[24:05.870 --> 24:07.330] [SPEAKER_16]: But what's the title of the book again, Bernie?
[24:07.870 --> 24:08.510] [SPEAKER_30]: Hack This?
[24:08.910 --> 24:10.070] [SPEAKER_30]: I'm paraphrasing here.
[24:10.290 --> 24:18.610] [SPEAKER_30]: It's called Hack This, 24 Amazing Hackerspace Projects from Around the World or something very much like that.
[24:18.910 --> 24:19.210] [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[24:19.210 --> 24:23.610] [SPEAKER_16]: And that's donated by John Batesell who wrote that book.
[24:23.730 --> 24:24.230] [SPEAKER_16]: Who's publishing?
[24:24.410 --> 24:24.570] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[24:24.770 --> 24:27.870] [SPEAKER_16]: And it's really a great read.
[24:27.970 --> 24:28.650] [SPEAKER_16]: A lot of pictures.
[24:29.010 --> 24:29.810] [SPEAKER_16]: It's very fascinating.
[24:30.330 --> 24:34.870] [SPEAKER_16]: A good introduction to the hacker world and creating all kinds of things.
[24:35.210 --> 24:38.850] [SPEAKER_16]: And you also get the Hackerspace Passport which is a great conversation piece.
[24:38.930 --> 24:41.430] [SPEAKER_16]: And also, if you visit Hackerspaces, you'll get neat little stamps in there.
[24:41.790 --> 24:47.870] [SPEAKER_16]: You'll get a whole bunch of DVDs from our Hope conferences involving Hackerspaces throughout the years.
[24:48.070 --> 24:51.970] [SPEAKER_16]: And you'll get commemorative stickers and buttons from Hackerspaces all over the planet.
[24:52.190 --> 24:55.130] [SPEAKER_16]: So it's really fascinating.
[24:55.370 --> 24:55.990] [SPEAKER_16]: It's amazing.
[24:56.150 --> 24:57.790] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[24:57.790 --> 25:00.550] [SPEAKER_16]: We have two calls on the line right now.
[25:00.830 --> 25:03.130] [SPEAKER_16]: And there's room for a few more.
[25:03.710 --> 25:05.990] [SPEAKER_16]: Any final words on this particular...
[25:05.990 --> 25:08.450] [SPEAKER_10]: I think that people want to know what's next.
[25:08.630 --> 25:14.710] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, it's a great package but I don't think we would ever just have just the same package two weeks in a row.
[25:15.450 --> 25:17.910] [SPEAKER_16]: No, we always want to add something else.
[25:18.150 --> 25:28.910] [SPEAKER_16]: And I guess we can move on to another feature that we have as well because, well, this week is a two-hour show and we did want to do something rather special.
[25:29.070 --> 25:33.450] [SPEAKER_16]: And we have talked about this on our website and through Twitter and all that kind of thing.
[25:33.690 --> 25:35.970] [SPEAKER_16]: So let me actually start off.
[25:35.990 --> 25:41.270] [SPEAKER_16]: by playing a little hint as to what lies ahead.
[25:41.530 --> 25:47.250] [SPEAKER_16]: This is an organization, a couple of people you might have heard of.
[25:47.850 --> 25:48.930] [SPEAKER_16]: Let's take a listen.
[25:51.310 --> 25:56.130] [SPEAKER_05]: Meet the Yes Men, the next generation of activists.
[25:56.510 --> 25:58.730] [SPEAKER_14]: We're like Santa Claus, a little less radical.
[26:04.410 --> 26:08.310] [SPEAKER_05]: To fight corporate greed, they will become anyone.
[26:08.750 --> 26:13.930] [SPEAKER_13]: With the Yes Men, we target people we see as criminals and we steal their identity to try to make them honest.
[26:14.210 --> 26:16.890] [SPEAKER_13]: This is the Kinspring Spratt from the WTO.
[26:17.170 --> 26:18.110] [SPEAKER_13]: Michael Bonanno here.
[26:18.350 --> 26:19.770] [SPEAKER_13]: I'm Hank Hardy Unruh.
[26:20.010 --> 26:21.630] [SPEAKER_13]: Dr. Andreas Bicklebauer.
[26:21.750 --> 26:22.970] [SPEAKER_13]: Grandma's Hoolaberry.
[26:23.190 --> 26:24.210] [SPEAKER_01]: We were expecting you.
[26:24.290 --> 26:24.790] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, good.
[26:26.010 --> 26:29.770] [SPEAKER_05]: To fix the global economy, they will go anywhere.
[26:30.270 --> 26:32.410] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, we're arriving in Helsinki right now.
[26:32.650 --> 26:33.350] [SPEAKER_13]: We're in London.
[26:33.790 --> 26:34.970] [SPEAKER_13]: We're en route to Australia.
[26:34.970 --> 26:37.190] [SPEAKER_13]: I'm doing Hong Kong the week after.
[26:38.230 --> 26:38.710] [SPEAKER_21]: Run!
[26:39.590 --> 26:43.930] [SPEAKER_13]: To protect freedom, they will use any means necessary.
[26:44.210 --> 26:46.850] [SPEAKER_13]: This time, we just have to really push it and make it totally extreme.
[26:47.170 --> 26:49.330] [SPEAKER_11]: This is the big day to close down the WTO.
[26:49.730 --> 26:52.050] [SPEAKER_11]: At this point, it's upset quite a few people.
[26:57.260 --> 26:59.020] [SPEAKER_31]: Oh, it gets better.
[27:00.100 --> 27:01.440] [SPEAKER_22]: The Yes Men.
[27:03.040 --> 27:06.280] [SPEAKER_22]: Changing the world one prank at a time.
[27:12.140 --> 27:19.020] [SPEAKER_16]: And as you may have heard, The Yes Men will be one of the keynote speakers at the Hope No.
[27:19.100 --> 27:22.640] [SPEAKER_16]: 9 conference July 13th through 15th here in New York City.
[27:22.820 --> 27:24.040] [SPEAKER_16]: That's exciting enough.
[27:24.160 --> 27:30.220] [SPEAKER_16]: But what's even more exciting right now is we have one of them on the phone with us and another one on his way to the studio right now.
[27:30.880 --> 27:33.120] [SPEAKER_16]: Mike Bonanno, are you with us from London?
[27:33.540 --> 27:34.240] [SPEAKER_16]: Or from England, anyway?
[27:34.320 --> 27:35.800] [SPEAKER_14]: Hey, I am with you.
[27:35.980 --> 27:40.420] [SPEAKER_14]: And strangely, I'm in a place called Dundee in Scotland.
[27:40.720 --> 27:41.260] [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, you're in Scotland?
[27:41.820 --> 27:43.200] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I'm not that far from London.
[27:43.200 --> 27:52.480] [SPEAKER_14]: I was in London a few days ago, though, for this entertaining, you know, release of the Stratfor emails.
[27:52.660 --> 27:55.740] [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, so you guys are involved in that somehow.
[27:56.580 --> 28:02.460] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, well, basically, we're named in it several hundred times.
[28:04.720 --> 28:11.840] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, when they're tracking you, of course, they repeat your name over and over every time they're making a report.
[28:12.980 --> 28:13.460] [SPEAKER_14]: back.
[28:13.460 --> 28:23.460] [SPEAKER_14]: In this case, it was Dow Chemical, mostly, that was, you know, paying Stratfor to look after us in a way.
[28:23.800 --> 28:27.300] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, they call it intelligence, but it really wasn't very smart.
[28:27.600 --> 28:36.120] [SPEAKER_14]: It was just things like trying to sign up for mailing lists that we have and keep track of where we were going and speaking.
[28:37.460 --> 28:44.540] [SPEAKER_14]: so they would report back to Dow and Dow was apparently very worried about what we're doing.
[28:46.000 --> 28:57.980] [SPEAKER_14]: So, when Wikileaks found a few references to us in it, they gave us a holler and asked if we wouldn't like to join them for a press conference in London.
[28:59.760 --> 29:02.300] [SPEAKER_16]: And that press conference took place when?
[29:02.880 --> 29:04.280] [SPEAKER_14]: It took place on Monday.
[29:04.860 --> 29:08.160] [SPEAKER_14]: And, yeah, it was a really exciting event.
[29:08.340 --> 29:20.540] [SPEAKER_14]: We ended up, in turn, inviting a bunch of Bhopal activists, including a Bhopal survivor whose name appeared dozens of times in the documents as well.
[29:20.640 --> 29:27.800] [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, we had been working with them in the past and so we found that they were being monitored as well.
[29:27.980 --> 29:43.420] [SPEAKER_14]: And, yeah, since then, it's, you know, it's all blown up in the media as one has come to expect and count upon when it comes to Wikileaks and especially with the double whammy of a Wikileaks anonymous alliance.
[29:45.000 --> 29:53.080] [SPEAKER_16]: That must really scare the powers that be senseless to think of Wikileaks, Anonymous, and the Yes Men all working together.
[29:53.820 --> 29:57.300] [SPEAKER_16]: I, I, I just, I can't imagine what, what's going on in the boardrooms.
[29:58.520 --> 30:05.400] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you know, the funny thing is that we no longer need to imagine everything because we can just read the real document.
[30:06.920 --> 30:14.300] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, you know, maybe we can get like a real-time video feeds now of their complex, of their office meetings and things like that.
[30:15.220 --> 30:22.200] [SPEAKER_16]: What does this tell you about the security that they have as far as all this material being so apparently easy to access?
[30:22.200 --> 30:35.840] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I mean, I don't, I unfortunately don't know enough about that, but my sense is that it's, you know, about as, as kind of whole-ridden as Swiss cheese.
[30:36.000 --> 30:45.260] [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, it's just like any of these things, though, that it seems like the security is only as good as the humans that populate the organization.
[30:45.260 --> 30:48.880] [SPEAKER_14]: And in this case, they're pretty cretinous and despicable humans.
[30:49.240 --> 30:57.460] [SPEAKER_14]: And although in some cases, they were, you know, they may have been very intelligent, but that doesn't mean that they don't make mistakes.
[30:58.040 --> 31:13.100] [SPEAKER_14]: The other thing is that it's a, it was a large company with a lot of employees and it seems like they hired people fresh out of college and without any training, really, they could work their way up the so-called ladder, you know?
[31:13.240 --> 31:17.120] [SPEAKER_14]: So it, I think it's, you know, a system that's bound to fail.
[31:18.120 --> 31:22.100] [SPEAKER_14]: At many points, you know, in those structures.
[31:22.400 --> 31:28.460] [SPEAKER_14]: So, yeah, I'm not, I'm not at all surprised at these, that they're having this kind of problem.
[31:28.680 --> 31:40.680] [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, it was mentioned earlier that there's this issue about, you know, whether the governments were doing and whether you would have gotten as many emails from the government website, for example.
[31:40.840 --> 31:48.440] [SPEAKER_14]: And I think, I mean, this just points out that these guys are operating, I mean, they're operating to make a profit.
[31:48.660 --> 31:54.300] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, it's this privatization of security industry, the military, and intelligence industries.
[31:54.420 --> 32:03.920] [SPEAKER_14]: And when we were kids, I think we all expected that the FBI sometime would have a file on us because, you know, we grew up learning about COINTELPRO and things like that.
[32:04.180 --> 32:20.480] [SPEAKER_14]: But nowadays, it's like, you know, the FBI is trading files with all of these networks of private intelligence agencies and the private firms are doing business with other governments at the same time, you know, other corporations at the same time.
[32:20.620 --> 32:24.740] [SPEAKER_14]: So they're buying information from the, you know, from the U.S.
[32:24.820 --> 32:29.120] [SPEAKER_14]: government, selling it on to Dow, selling it on to, you know, other governments.
[32:29.120 --> 32:36.960] [SPEAKER_14]: It just becomes a strange and complicated commercial entity that in many ways is extra governmental.
[32:36.960 --> 32:43.320] [SPEAKER_14]: So, you know, we can expect there will be problems eventually and I think they'll keep coming up.
[32:43.820 --> 32:51.560] [SPEAKER_16]: We're speaking with Mike Bonanno of the Yes Men talking to us live from Scotland and Andy Bicklebaum is on his way up to the studio.
[32:51.700 --> 32:52.600] [SPEAKER_16]: We'll be here very shortly.
[32:52.960 --> 33:01.300] [SPEAKER_16]: This is a special to our edition of Off The Hook and I just want to say the Yes Men have been very generous in donating items to our fundraiser as well.
[33:01.520 --> 33:20.660] [SPEAKER_16]: What we're able to offer you tonight for a pledge of $75 are autographed DVDs, both of their films, The Yes Men and The Yes Men Fix the World and as well as those two autographed DVDs, you'll get, I believe, a fake newspaper that The Yes Men put out.
[33:20.980 --> 33:23.120] [SPEAKER_16]: Mike, can you tell us something about what those newspapers are all about?
[33:24.020 --> 33:24.540] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[33:25.820 --> 33:30.500] [SPEAKER_14]: A few years ago, 2009, we put out a...
[33:31.920 --> 33:36.360] [SPEAKER_14]: I guess it was 2008 when we put out the newspaper.
[33:36.360 --> 33:41.500] [SPEAKER_14]: It was just after Obama had been elected and we published a fake edition of The New York Times.
[33:41.800 --> 34:00.660] [SPEAKER_14]: We worked with a whole bunch of other organizations and activists in New York City and the newspaper had all the news that we hoped to print, not all the news that's fit to print, which is what it says up in the corner near the map that had the New York Times.
[34:00.660 --> 34:15.400] [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, the idea was to sort of post-date the newspaper six months in the future and populate it with all of these stories about what we imagine could happen with a progressive president in office.
[34:15.840 --> 34:26.780] [SPEAKER_14]: Of course, you know, none of that actually did happen, but the newspaper is a really fun document to look at and, you know, get depressed about.
[34:27.040 --> 34:27.540] [SPEAKER_14]: Emmanuel.
[34:28.060 --> 34:28.900] [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, Bernie, go ahead.
[34:29.060 --> 34:35.800] [SPEAKER_30]: I just want to point out that this is kind of a collector's item, this printed spoof edition of the New York Times.
[34:36.540 --> 34:41.960] [SPEAKER_30]: There's a semi-famous New York Times reporter and a media scholar named Alex Jones.
[34:42.360 --> 34:48.620] [SPEAKER_30]: And he said about this newspaper, quote, I would say if you've got one, hold on to it.
[34:48.660 --> 34:50.220] [SPEAKER_30]: It will probably be a collector's item.
[34:50.440 --> 34:54.880] [SPEAKER_30]: I'm just glad someone thinks the New York Times print edition is worthy of an elaborate hoax.
[34:55.140 --> 35:04.460] [SPEAKER_30]: A web spoof would have definitely been infinitely easier, but creating a print newspaper and handing it out at subway stations, that takes a lot of effort.
[35:04.760 --> 35:12.380] [SPEAKER_30]: So, this is your chance to get one of these collector's items by calling and supporting WBAI.
[35:12.480 --> 35:16.460] [SPEAKER_16]: In addition to the two movies, we're going to play an excerpt from one in just a moment.
[35:17.380 --> 35:20.480] [SPEAKER_16]: The two Yes Men movies also autographed.
[35:21.560 --> 35:22.680] [SPEAKER_16]: This is inspirational.
[35:22.680 --> 35:24.160] [SPEAKER_16]: This is what the hacker world is all about.
[35:24.280 --> 35:31.140] [SPEAKER_16]: This kind of mischief, this kind of antagonism, and lately this kind of awareness of what's going on in the world.
[35:31.600 --> 35:35.000] [SPEAKER_16]: So, you'll have a lot of material to digest.
[35:35.020 --> 35:37.380] [SPEAKER_16]: All for a pledge of $75, you'll get that.
[35:37.740 --> 35:42.720] [SPEAKER_16]: In addition, we have the aforementioned hackerspace package for a $75 pledge.
[35:43.100 --> 35:53.440] [SPEAKER_16]: And in addition to that, we also have a $50 package of Off The Hook DVDs, every single show from 1988 through 2011.
[35:53.740 --> 35:55.040] [SPEAKER_16]: 22 DVDs.
[35:55.160 --> 35:55.760] [SPEAKER_16]: So, that's for $50.
[35:56.020 --> 36:03.900] [SPEAKER_16]: So, for $125, you can get the Yes Men package and the Off The Hook archive, or the hackerspace package and the Off The Hook archive.
[36:04.320 --> 36:10.980] [SPEAKER_16]: All kinds of combinations there, but it's only available during this special two-hour Off The Hook.
[36:11.080 --> 36:13.520] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[36:13.920 --> 36:18.960] [SPEAKER_16]: You need to see those phones start ringing, and we need to know people are out there supporting this kind of thing.
[36:19.540 --> 36:27.100] [SPEAKER_16]: We're going to have both Yes Men on at the same time in just a few minutes, and we'll be able to talk about all kinds of mischief past, present, and future.
[36:28.060 --> 36:41.900] [SPEAKER_16]: What I'd like to focus on now, and Mike, you made reference to it, is what happened at Balpal in the 1980s, something a lot of people in America don't even know about, and you guys decided to tackle this.
[36:42.020 --> 36:52.380] [SPEAKER_16]: What I'm going to do is I'm going to play an excerpt from the beginning of your film, The Yes Men Fix the World, but could you possibly just give a little bit of background as to what brought you guys into it?
[36:53.920 --> 37:06.580] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, well, you know, in 1984, a Union Carbide plant in Bhopal had an accident that several journalists had actually been warning about for years.
[37:06.740 --> 37:13.040] [SPEAKER_14]: They said the plant was going to explode, and it did, because of Union Carbide's negligence.
[37:13.200 --> 37:24.260] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, in 2002, Dow Chemical bought Union Carbide, but they said that they were basically inheriting their assets and not their liabilities.
[37:25.100 --> 37:27.220] [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, corporations often do this.
[37:27.340 --> 37:41.940] [SPEAKER_14]: They try to wash their hands of a sort of bad memory or sometimes liabilities themselves by reconfiguring a corporation, by bankrupting it, and then redistributing its assets under a different name.
[37:42.700 --> 37:54.720] [SPEAKER_14]: And so there were a bunch of activists, including the activists in Bhopal, who had been struggling for 20 years to, or at that point, 18 years, to try to hold Union Carbide accountable.
[37:54.900 --> 38:03.680] [SPEAKER_14]: And they wanted to make sure that people knew that Dow was now the company that owned Union Carbide, so it was Dow's problem.
[38:04.280 --> 38:09.600] [SPEAKER_14]: So they asked us to help them out and put up a fake website, which we did.
[38:10.820 --> 38:15.500] [SPEAKER_14]: And initially it caused a little bit of a rumble in the media.
[38:15.600 --> 38:17.100] [SPEAKER_14]: The New York Times wrote about it.
[38:17.220 --> 38:18.480] [SPEAKER_14]: It was kind of funny.
[38:18.660 --> 38:23.200] [SPEAKER_14]: But then two years went by and nothing happened, and the site sat there dormant.
[38:23.660 --> 38:33.840] [SPEAKER_14]: But one day we received an email from none other than BBC World Television, and that's the most watched news program in the world.
[38:33.840 --> 38:36.280] [SPEAKER_14]: They claim to have 300 million viewers.
[38:36.780 --> 38:47.080] [SPEAKER_14]: And they asked for Dow Chemical to send representatives to speak on their program live on the 20th anniversary of the disaster.
[38:47.960 --> 38:54.160] [SPEAKER_14]: At first we didn't think it could possibly be true, but of course it ended up being true.
[38:54.360 --> 39:02.640] [SPEAKER_14]: They really thought we were Dow Chemical, and we were able to go on and make a very special announcement on behalf of Dow.
[39:02.980 --> 39:05.880] [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, well, I don't want you to give away too much here.
[39:05.920 --> 39:09.660] [SPEAKER_16]: We do want to play an excerpt as to what exactly happened from the film.
[39:09.760 --> 39:14.260] [SPEAKER_16]: And this film is part of the package that we're offering here tonight.
[39:15.100 --> 39:24.560] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950 And this is basically what happened when the Yes Men took on Dow Chemical.
[39:25.500 --> 39:29.520] [SPEAKER_16]: You'll learn about the concept of the gold skeleton for instance.
[39:30.380 --> 39:36.440] [SPEAKER_16]: Again, you'll get both films and a newspaper autographed by the Yes Men for a pledge of $75.
[39:36.640 --> 39:40.240] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950 We have other levels as well.
[39:40.320 --> 39:47.320] [SPEAKER_16]: We have the Off The Hook archive, we have the Hackerspace package, but this Yes Men package we're only offering tonight and it's really something amazing.
[39:47.520 --> 39:48.600] [SPEAKER_16]: Let's take a listen to the film.
[40:02.380 --> 40:04.760] [SPEAKER_13]: Hi, my name's Mike.
[40:05.480 --> 40:06.260] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm Andy.
[40:07.380 --> 40:11.940] [SPEAKER_20]: And this is a movie in which the two of us fix the world.
[40:19.500 --> 40:21.700] [SPEAKER_22]: Aren't we fixing the world?
[40:22.000 --> 40:22.360] [SPEAKER_21]: Yes.
[40:22.720 --> 40:23.300] [SPEAKER_22]: Come on.
[40:24.960 --> 40:26.040] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm scared.
[40:28.420 --> 40:32.380] [SPEAKER_22]: Get ready for the judgment day!
[40:42.170 --> 40:43.150] [SPEAKER_03]: Now what?
[40:46.680 --> 40:52.860] [SPEAKER_13]: What we do is pass ourselves off as representatives of big corporations we don't like.
[40:54.940 --> 40:59.920] [SPEAKER_13]: We make fake websites then wait for people to accidentally invite us to conferences.
[41:00.960 --> 41:02.020] [SPEAKER_20]: My name is Fred.
[41:02.200 --> 41:03.100] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm from Halliburton.
[41:03.220 --> 41:04.380] [SPEAKER_20]: My name is Hannaford Schmidt.
[41:04.720 --> 41:06.380] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm with the World Trade Organization.
[41:06.400 --> 41:07.140] [SPEAKER_20]: I'm from Arizona.
[41:07.560 --> 41:09.620] [SPEAKER_13]: My name is Francisco Guerrero.
[41:09.780 --> 41:10.800] [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, we're Lou Hawk Max.
[41:11.140 --> 41:14.240] [SPEAKER_27]: Hundreds of oil and gas executives were duped today.
[41:14.580 --> 41:17.780] [SPEAKER_27]: Louisiana officials are taken for a ride by the Yes Men.
[41:18.000 --> 41:18.820] [SPEAKER_27]: The Yes Men?
[41:19.020 --> 41:19.780] [SPEAKER_28]: The Yes Men.
[41:19.900 --> 41:24.260] [SPEAKER_28]: Anti-globalization activists that travel the world pulling pranks at corporate events.
[41:24.280 --> 41:25.740] [SPEAKER_28]: A bunch of lefty protesters.
[41:26.040 --> 41:27.980] [SPEAKER_27]: World-renowned troublemakers.
[41:28.560 --> 41:30.260] [SPEAKER_27]: Sick, twisted, cruel.
[41:30.580 --> 41:35.280] [SPEAKER_28]: And what they do is really to take absurd ideas and they present these ideas in all seriousness.
[41:37.280 --> 41:39.140] [SPEAKER_09]: The group has done this many times before.
[41:39.300 --> 41:40.920] [SPEAKER_09]: They have a track record of getting away with it.
[41:41.340 --> 41:42.460] [SPEAKER_09]: So, how did this happen?
[41:42.620 --> 41:45.260] [SPEAKER_23]: Equity International says the impostors showed up...
[41:45.260 --> 41:49.860] [SPEAKER_13]: At home in our underground headquarters, it was time to start planning our next mission.
[41:50.860 --> 41:53.200] [SPEAKER_22]: Tens of thousands of Iraqis have died.
[41:53.460 --> 41:58.200] [SPEAKER_22]: Worries are growing among top government and business leaders about the surge of food riots.
[41:58.300 --> 41:59.780] [SPEAKER_22]: Markets continue to shake.
[42:00.040 --> 42:01.200] [SPEAKER_22]: Unemployment is up.
[42:01.420 --> 42:05.240] [SPEAKER_27]: The oil companies reported the highest profits in the history of the world.
[42:05.760 --> 42:10.020] [SPEAKER_13]: But with so many things going wrong, who should we go after next?
[42:11.060 --> 42:14.040] [SPEAKER_13]: We got our answer when a text message arrived.
[42:23.900 --> 42:30.380] [SPEAKER_13]: Dow Chemical had just bought Union Carbide, a company that became infamous in the 1980s.
[42:30.600 --> 42:32.420] [SPEAKER_13]: You remember the 1980s.
[42:32.860 --> 42:33.460] [SPEAKER_13]: Challenger.
[42:33.980 --> 42:34.780] [SPEAKER_13]: Chernobyl.
[42:36.060 --> 42:36.740] [SPEAKER_13]: Bhopal.
[42:37.840 --> 42:38.640] [SPEAKER_13]: Bhopal?
[42:38.860 --> 42:50.280] [SPEAKER_13]: In 1984, when Union Carbide's pesticide plant at Bhopal exploded, at least 5,000 people died within weeks and 100,000 more remained sick for life.
[42:51.320 --> 42:54.480] [SPEAKER_13]: It was the biggest industrial disaster in history.
[42:54.820 --> 43:03.540] [SPEAKER_13]: But Union Carbide settled with the Indian government for $470 million, meaning most of the victims got less than $1,000 each.
[43:04.840 --> 43:17.440] [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to say to shareholders of Union Carbide that I am confident that the victims can be fairly and equitably compensated without a material adverse effect on the financial condition of Union Carbide Corporation.
[43:18.360 --> 43:23.940] [SPEAKER_13]: There was little adverse effect on the shareholders, but in Bhopal, people continued to suffer.
[43:27.060 --> 43:31.980] [SPEAKER_13]: When Dow announced it would buy Union Carbide, there was finally hope for justice.
[43:32.500 --> 43:44.100] [SPEAKER_13]: Dow said it would compensate victims of Carbide's past negligence and promptly paid over $2 billion to 14 asbestos plaintiffs in Texas.
[43:46.880 --> 43:50.100] [SPEAKER_13]: Dow could do for Bhopal what they'd done for Texas.
[43:50.780 --> 43:52.340] [SPEAKER_13]: But we knew they wouldn't.
[43:53.280 --> 43:55.920] [SPEAKER_13]: So, we decided to do it for them.
[43:57.320 --> 44:06.300] [SPEAKER_13]: We set up a fake Dow chemical website, dowethics.com, and we waited, and waited, and waited.
[44:07.400 --> 44:10.120] [SPEAKER_13]: Then one day, we got our chance.
[44:10.400 --> 44:11.180] [SPEAKER_22]: You have mail.
[44:11.780 --> 44:15.940] [SPEAKER_13]: We'd just been invited to a conference on international finance.
[44:16.340 --> 44:18.880] [SPEAKER_13]: Some of the biggest banks in the world would be there.
[44:20.040 --> 44:25.080] [SPEAKER_13]: These were the kind of banks who helped companies like Union Carbide and Dow do what they do.
[44:25.500 --> 44:31.780] [SPEAKER_13]: A company might say, we're going to build a shoddy plant in an underdeveloped country with a corrupt legal system.
[44:32.080 --> 44:36.400] [SPEAKER_13]: The plant might explode and people might die, but we'll make a lot of money.
[44:37.100 --> 44:41.000] [SPEAKER_13]: And the bank comes back and says, great, sounds like a plan.
[44:43.940 --> 44:46.800] [SPEAKER_13]: to show bankers what was wrong with this logic.
[44:52.340 --> 45:06.180] [SPEAKER_13]: So right now, I'm painting Gilda, the gilded skeleton, actually the golden skeleton that we're going to use in the Dow Chemical Lecture in London at a financial services conference in just a few short days.
[45:06.780 --> 45:09.880] [SPEAKER_14]: The only good skeleton is a gold skeleton.
[45:12.060 --> 45:16.220] [SPEAKER_13]: In case Gilda didn't scare them enough, we had a backup plan.
[45:16.420 --> 45:23.900] [SPEAKER_11]: We rented a theatrical pyrotechnics unit here so that we can make a big puff of smoke.
[45:27.700 --> 45:38.320] [SPEAKER_11]: We're on our way to a conference and Erastus Hamm is going to be speaking at the conference as Dow Chemical Company.
[45:38.540 --> 45:46.820] [SPEAKER_13]: Our plan was to have Dow demonstrate for the first time ever exactly how they calculate the cash value of human life.
[45:47.540 --> 45:49.800] [SPEAKER_13]: Would this make the bankers think twice?
[45:50.140 --> 45:52.080] [SPEAKER_13]: It was time to find out.
[45:53.880 --> 45:55.260] [SPEAKER_20]: Thank you very much.
[45:56.360 --> 46:11.360] [SPEAKER_20]: On May 1st, we are releasing the beta version of Acceptable Risk, the world's first market-smart risk calculator to help you find out instantly what risks are or are not acceptable from a bottom-line business perspective.
[46:12.320 --> 46:16.120] [SPEAKER_20]: Will Project X be just another skeleton in the closet?
[46:16.460 --> 46:18.260] [SPEAKER_20]: Something your company comes to regret?
[46:18.500 --> 46:20.460] [SPEAKER_20]: Or will it be a golden skeleton?
[46:21.740 --> 46:30.220] [SPEAKER_20]: A complex case is IBM's sale of technology to World War II Germany for use in identifying certain populations.
[46:30.640 --> 46:34.820] [SPEAKER_20]: This was very bad, of course, but no one can deny they were profitable.
[46:35.260 --> 46:40.700] [SPEAKER_20]: And although the issue remains a skeleton in the closet, in retrospect, it is quite clearly golden.
[46:42.380 --> 46:47.340] [SPEAKER_20]: Now, you may have heard the joke, how many Americans does it take to screw in a light bulb?
[46:48.860 --> 46:49.300] [SPEAKER_20]: Twelve.
[46:50.300 --> 46:52.760] [SPEAKER_20]: One to climb the ladder and eleven to file the lawsuit.
[46:54.820 --> 46:55.820] [SPEAKER_20]: What about Indians?
[46:56.780 --> 46:57.760] [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, just one.
[46:59.960 --> 47:05.500] [SPEAKER_20]: We would, of course, never wish to imply that an Indian life is worth more or less than another.
[47:05.740 --> 47:08.000] [SPEAKER_19]: I, myself, believe in the sanctity of all life.
[47:08.380 --> 47:14.520] [SPEAKER_19]: But the market has its own logic, and if we're willing to live with it, we must make the most of the choices it makes.
[47:15.200 --> 47:24.740] [SPEAKER_19]: Because if there's one thing that we at DAO want you to remember today, it's that the only good skeleton is a gold skeleton.
[47:25.760 --> 47:26.360] [SPEAKER_23]: Oh!
[47:31.560 --> 47:32.160] [SPEAKER_20]: Surprise.
[47:33.740 --> 47:35.160] [SPEAKER_20]: This is Gilda.
[47:35.480 --> 47:38.460] [SPEAKER_20]: She's the mascot for the DAO acceptable risk program.
[47:38.460 --> 47:45.980] [SPEAKER_20]: Gilda is here to basically tell you that if you have a skeleton in the closet, it may not be just a skeleton.
[47:46.220 --> 47:48.860] [SPEAKER_20]: It could very well be a golden skeleton as well.
[47:50.220 --> 48:00.560] [SPEAKER_19]: And as you move into a future of ever-increasing complexity and ever-increasing opportunities, DAO acceptable risk can assure you that your touch will be the Midas one.
[48:01.800 --> 48:04.200] [SPEAKER_19]: And I'd like to finish with a little poem.
[48:05.360 --> 48:14.840] [SPEAKER_19]: I'd rather be handsome than homely I'd rather be youthful than old If I can't have a bushel of silver I'll do with a barrel of gold So, thank you very much.
[48:14.940 --> 48:17.000] [SPEAKER_20]: We hope you come up and get a closer look.
[48:22.230 --> 48:22.830] [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you.
[48:23.050 --> 48:24.510] [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, thank you for having us.
[48:24.550 --> 48:25.190] [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you.
[48:25.350 --> 48:25.690] [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks.
[48:25.970 --> 48:26.790] [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you very much.
[48:26.870 --> 48:27.710] [SPEAKER_11]: Here's a keychain.
[48:30.410 --> 48:31.330] [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you very much.
[48:31.430 --> 48:31.710] [SPEAKER_11]: Absolutely.
[48:32.850 --> 48:33.330] [SPEAKER_12]: Thank you.
[48:33.510 --> 48:33.850] [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, good.
[48:34.350 --> 48:35.650] [SPEAKER_12]: Unfortunately, I don't have a card anymore.
[48:35.810 --> 48:36.610] [SPEAKER_12]: I've ran out of them.
[48:36.810 --> 48:37.250] [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, wonderful.
[48:37.630 --> 48:38.850] [SPEAKER_19]: You were one of the earlier speakers.
[48:39.030 --> 48:39.150] [SPEAKER_19]: Thanks.
[48:39.430 --> 48:40.710] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, it's a pleasure.
[48:40.970 --> 48:41.970] [SPEAKER_19]: Thank you very much.
[48:41.990 --> 48:42.490] [SPEAKER_12]: It's definitely very interesting.
[48:42.770 --> 48:43.510] [SPEAKER_12]: Is it applicable?
[48:43.670 --> 48:45.350] [SPEAKER_12]: Is your model applicable to anything?
[48:45.590 --> 48:46.390] [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, is it applicable?
[48:46.570 --> 48:47.910] [SPEAKER_12]: Can we use it in risk management?
[48:48.250 --> 48:49.010] [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, absolutely.
[48:49.250 --> 48:49.850] [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[48:49.990 --> 48:54.450] [SPEAKER_12]: I'll have our risk management guys take a look at it because we do a lot of interesting things.
[48:54.690 --> 48:55.130] [SPEAKER_20]: Wonderful.
[48:55.490 --> 48:56.510] [SPEAKER_12]: This is interesting.
[48:57.610 --> 48:58.290] [SPEAKER_12]: Thanks a lot.
[48:58.370 --> 48:58.750] [SPEAKER_20]: Thank you.
[48:58.970 --> 48:59.130] [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[48:59.370 --> 48:59.690] [SPEAKER_20]: Take care.
[49:04.430 --> 49:10.250] [SPEAKER_16]: And that was an excerpt from the Yes Men Fix the World.
[49:10.250 --> 49:11.750] [SPEAKER_16]: And wow.
[49:12.230 --> 49:20.430] [SPEAKER_16]: If anything, it's a testament to what hackers can do when they're clever, when they try to fool various people.
[49:20.450 --> 49:21.950] [SPEAKER_16]: This is what social engineering is all about.
[49:22.450 --> 49:23.470] [SPEAKER_16]: This is the film.
[49:24.110 --> 49:25.210] [SPEAKER_16]: Yes Men Fix the World.
[49:25.370 --> 49:26.850] [SPEAKER_16]: We're offering this in addition to the Yes Men.
[49:27.010 --> 49:33.470] [SPEAKER_16]: We're offering this in addition to the fake newspaper put out by the Yes Men and all of it autographed by the Yes Men as well.
[49:34.530 --> 49:37.490] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950 is our telephone number.
[49:38.110 --> 49:43.170] [SPEAKER_16]: We have open lines and I know there's lots of people out there that are fascinated by this kind of thing.
[49:43.570 --> 49:44.370] [SPEAKER_16]: Please give a call.
[49:44.470 --> 49:46.170] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[49:46.470 --> 49:48.770] [SPEAKER_16]: Mike Bonanno is on the phone with us from Scotland.
[49:48.930 --> 49:49.990] [SPEAKER_16]: He's half of the Yes Men.
[49:50.250 --> 49:57.150] [SPEAKER_16]: The other half of the Yes Men on their way up the elevator right now to the radio station and we'll have both of them here in just a moment.
[49:57.150 --> 50:05.790] [SPEAKER_16]: But Mike, first of all it's unbelievable what you guys were able to get away with actually appearing before that crowd it was in Finland I believe.
[50:05.930 --> 50:06.530] [SPEAKER_16]: Was that Finland?
[50:07.430 --> 50:09.110] [SPEAKER_14]: The one you just saw was London.
[50:09.270 --> 50:09.730] [SPEAKER_14]: That was London.
[50:09.790 --> 50:09.970] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[50:10.090 --> 50:11.190] [SPEAKER_14]: The one you just heard I mean.
[50:11.810 --> 50:12.150] [SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[50:12.210 --> 50:18.230] [SPEAKER_16]: And you will see it if you get the DVDs and it's really it's pretty funny.
[50:18.350 --> 50:21.250] [SPEAKER_16]: You get to see what the gold skeleton obviously looks like and all of that.
[50:22.350 --> 50:27.650] [SPEAKER_16]: But most importantly you're learning about what the Yes Men are up to.
[50:27.810 --> 50:28.810] [SPEAKER_16]: You're supporting the radio station.
[50:28.970 --> 50:30.130] [SPEAKER_16]: It's win-win.
[50:30.230 --> 50:32.330] [SPEAKER_16]: But tell us something about how that all happened.
[50:32.490 --> 50:34.730] [SPEAKER_16]: How do people fall for this kind of thing?
[50:34.870 --> 50:44.870] [SPEAKER_16]: And there are people actually after the talk coming up to you asking for more information on this particular crazy scheme that you're presenting to the crowd.
[50:45.510 --> 50:45.950] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[50:46.190 --> 50:57.230] [SPEAKER_14]: I think most of the time the reason that people still come up and want our business cards is that we're usually presented as the most important people in the room.
[50:57.410 --> 51:01.310] [SPEAKER_14]: And so everybody is there to meet us.
[51:01.650 --> 51:05.250] [SPEAKER_14]: I mean they don't suspect that we're anybody else.
[51:05.270 --> 51:08.050] [SPEAKER_14]: Anybody other than who we're introduced as.
[51:08.210 --> 51:10.790] [SPEAKER_14]: So if we're the DAO representatives people think that we are.
[51:10.870 --> 51:19.090] [SPEAKER_14]: No matter how bad our presentation or performance is they still believe that we are who the conference organizers say we are.
[51:19.090 --> 51:40.950] [SPEAKER_14]: And that's happened you know probably a good dozen to 20 times when we've appeared people haven't doubted it even when the presentation has been really over the top including unveiling a three foot long golden phallus that we said we used to give remote workforces electric shocks.
[51:41.210 --> 51:44.010] [SPEAKER_14]: That was when we were representing the World Trade Organization.
[51:44.950 --> 52:08.170] [SPEAKER_14]: I mean we went basically when we discovered that we were tapping into this weird psychological phenomenon you know where people held us in such respect that they weren't ready to question anything we did we began to push it as far as we could and see you know how far we could actually take it before people would object before people would say something.
[52:08.790 --> 52:20.690] [SPEAKER_14]: And you know we've never actually found that boundary we've never made it across that border to where people stand up out of their seats and start screaming at us.
[52:20.750 --> 52:22.950] [SPEAKER_14]: We always expected to but haven't gotten there yet.
[52:24.250 --> 52:27.870] [SPEAKER_08]: You mentioned the golden phallus I believe that was in Finland correct?
[52:28.570 --> 52:29.270] [SPEAKER_14]: That's correct.
[52:29.470 --> 52:37.150] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah I was watching a little bit of this and I noticed that you guys were a little bit nervous it seems like you'd kind of had all your
[52:47.590 --> 52:53.370] [SPEAKER_08]: stage so it seems like you're always on your toes in those moments where you've given the presentation and you're not quite
[53:17.590 --> 53:20.470] [SPEAKER_14]: speech about privatizing voting.
[53:20.670 --> 53:29.250] [SPEAKER_14]: For example, we came up with a plan to open a free market in democracy by allowing corporations to sell their votes to the highest bidder using the Internet.
[53:29.610 --> 53:31.990] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, it was like something that we presented.
[53:32.510 --> 53:40.270] [SPEAKER_14]: And we thought that, you know, that the group of international trade lawyers at the conference would rebel against the idea.
[53:40.930 --> 53:45.490] [SPEAKER_14]: And we just had video cameras there to witness our arrest.
[53:45.750 --> 53:50.970] [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, that's what we'd imagine that they would, you know... We only had one camera there for that one.
[53:51.010 --> 53:52.830] [SPEAKER_14]: And we thought, we're just going to get arrested.
[53:52.830 --> 53:53.490] [SPEAKER_14]: It'll be funny.
[53:54.030 --> 54:00.550] [SPEAKER_14]: We'll find out what it's like in a... Where were we?
[54:00.690 --> 54:03.250] [SPEAKER_14]: We were in... Austria?
[54:03.670 --> 54:03.810] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[54:04.150 --> 54:06.150] [SPEAKER_14]: Find out what it's like in an Austrian jail.
[54:06.490 --> 54:06.670] [SPEAKER_14]: You know?
[54:07.390 --> 54:09.330] [SPEAKER_16]: I think it was Finland that time, wasn't it?
[54:10.310 --> 54:16.110] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, well, Finland was the... The first time that we did it was actually in Austria, in Salzburg.
[54:16.110 --> 54:18.070] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, the trade law conference.
[54:18.370 --> 54:24.030] [SPEAKER_14]: And of course, the first time when we didn't get arrested, that's when we realized, oh, this is weird.
[54:24.430 --> 54:24.530] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[54:24.890 --> 54:30.970] [SPEAKER_14]: So that's when we started trying to turn up the volume and make things more and more absurd, resulting in that golden fallacy.
[54:31.490 --> 54:31.930] [SPEAKER_14]: Absolutely.
[54:32.530 --> 54:35.870] [SPEAKER_08]: How do you deal with that when you do get sort of found out?
[54:36.250 --> 54:37.550] [SPEAKER_08]: I know there's other instances.
[54:37.850 --> 54:41.550] [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe you can describe what Vivolium is.
[54:41.750 --> 54:44.850] [SPEAKER_08]: But there's been instances where you kind of do get sort of found out.
[54:44.990 --> 54:45.990] [SPEAKER_08]: And how do you deal with that?
[54:46.110 --> 54:47.150] [SPEAKER_08]: And like, what are your expectations?
[54:47.410 --> 54:48.410] [SPEAKER_08]: I guess don't reveal everything.
[54:48.650 --> 54:50.410] [SPEAKER_08]: But generally, how do you approach that?
[54:51.090 --> 54:57.150] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I mean, in the case of the Vivolium Candles, we were up in Calgary representing ExxonMobil.
[54:58.330 --> 55:03.870] [SPEAKER_14]: And we presented the new biofuel, which is made from the human victims of climate change.
[55:04.610 --> 55:12.390] [SPEAKER_14]: And so... But strangely, the... You know, we were giving this talk at a luncheon with 300 people.
[55:12.590 --> 55:15.190] [SPEAKER_14]: It was a keynote address for this big petroleum conference.
[55:16.330 --> 55:20.150] [SPEAKER_14]: And it wasn't actually that people were objecting to what we were saying.
[55:20.150 --> 55:23.230] [SPEAKER_14]: It turned out that somebody recognized us from our first movie.
[55:23.550 --> 55:26.030] [SPEAKER_14]: And that's how the conference organizers found out.
[55:26.170 --> 55:30.210] [SPEAKER_14]: We only figured that out by watching the videotapes really carefully.
[55:31.150 --> 55:33.870] [SPEAKER_14]: And we had people sitting at the different tables.
[55:33.870 --> 55:36.910] [SPEAKER_14]: And somebody just taped the woman who noticed us.
[55:37.030 --> 55:40.190] [SPEAKER_14]: And we just, you know, discovered after the fact.
[55:40.190 --> 55:43.230] [SPEAKER_14]: We actually thought that the conference organizers figured it out.
[55:43.950 --> 55:48.390] [SPEAKER_14]: But they only figured it out because they were tipped off by a woman who recognized us.
[55:48.390 --> 55:53.670] [SPEAKER_14]: Now, when they did actually come up and drag us off stage, it was really, really funny.
[55:53.910 --> 56:01.110] [SPEAKER_14]: Because the conference organizers were having a very hard time convincing security to take us off stage.
[56:01.110 --> 56:03.110] [SPEAKER_14]: Because we were dressed in suits.
[56:03.110 --> 56:04.370] [SPEAKER_14]: We were at the podium.
[56:04.730 --> 56:07.530] [SPEAKER_14]: The conference organizers were dressed in suits in the audience.
[56:07.850 --> 56:10.030] [SPEAKER_14]: Who are they supposed to believe, right?
[56:10.490 --> 56:12.410] [SPEAKER_14]: And they actually...
[56:12.410 --> 56:16.530] [SPEAKER_14]: This is held at the Calgary Stampede Grounds.
[56:16.530 --> 56:18.390] [SPEAKER_14]: That's where the event was.
[56:18.530 --> 56:20.110] [SPEAKER_14]: It's the largest rodeo in the world.
[56:20.290 --> 56:22.910] [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, they hold rodeos there.
[56:23.030 --> 56:24.710] [SPEAKER_14]: They hold petroleum conferences there.
[56:25.590 --> 56:32.310] [SPEAKER_14]: And so these cowboy kind of bouncer guys who were in charge of security had not a clue what to do.
[56:32.490 --> 56:36.150] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, they were caught between one guy in a seat and another guy in a seat.
[56:36.310 --> 56:41.910] [SPEAKER_14]: And eventually, the conference organizers got so frustrated, they went up and actually dragged us off himself.
[56:43.210 --> 56:45.110] [SPEAKER_14]: And I think that his...
[56:45.110 --> 56:50.590] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, when he started dragging us off, then the security decided that he must be in the right.
[56:50.750 --> 56:56.610] [SPEAKER_14]: Because nobody in their right mind would go and drag off the other guy in the seat if they didn't have the authority to do so.
[56:57.110 --> 57:02.650] [SPEAKER_14]: And so then they kind of begrudgingly locked us in a little room while they waited for the police to come.
[57:02.930 --> 57:03.690] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, my gosh.
[57:04.270 --> 57:08.630] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, the whole time we did, we, you know, we just maintained that we were still from ExxonMobil.
[57:08.850 --> 57:09.050] [SPEAKER_14]: Sure.
[57:09.050 --> 57:09.970] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, wow.
[57:10.450 --> 57:11.750] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, never back down on the story.
[57:11.910 --> 57:14.190] [SPEAKER_16]: You always have to have a graceful way out of it.
[57:14.630 --> 57:18.410] [SPEAKER_16]: Mike, Andy, your cohort has arrived here in the studio.
[57:18.570 --> 57:18.970] [SPEAKER_16]: Andy, welcome.
[57:19.150 --> 57:20.650] [SPEAKER_16]: Welcome to the station.
[57:20.830 --> 57:21.670] [SPEAKER_20]: Thank you very much.
[57:22.290 --> 57:26.410] [SPEAKER_16]: You know, we were just listening to this clip here from the S-Men fix the world.
[57:26.770 --> 57:28.130] [SPEAKER_16]: You know, you're off to a good start.
[57:28.170 --> 57:30.750] [SPEAKER_16]: I think you are fixing the world because you're making people think.
[57:30.750 --> 57:31.670] [SPEAKER_16]: You're making people laugh.
[57:31.670 --> 57:39.950] [SPEAKER_16]: You're basically getting through a lot of kind of transparent security barriers that don't seem to really exist.
[57:40.370 --> 57:41.410] [SPEAKER_20]: Humor can do that.
[57:41.490 --> 57:42.370] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, we try.
[57:42.570 --> 57:43.530] [SPEAKER_20]: We try to be funny.
[57:43.750 --> 57:44.610] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you succeed.
[57:44.710 --> 57:44.930] [SPEAKER_16]: Definitely.
[57:45.730 --> 57:54.670] [SPEAKER_16]: Now, is there any advice you can offer people that might be interested in waking up the public with humor or just with awareness?
[57:55.810 --> 57:56.850] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, be funny.
[57:57.750 --> 57:58.930] [SPEAKER_20]: That's basically it.
[57:59.650 --> 58:00.450] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, be funny.
[58:00.770 --> 58:00.970] [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[58:02.270 --> 58:09.290] [SPEAKER_16]: Aren't you surprised by how many big corporations you're able to impersonate just by putting up a fake website?
[58:09.450 --> 58:10.190] [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, is that all it takes?
[58:10.650 --> 58:10.870] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[58:11.710 --> 58:12.910] [SPEAKER_16]: You put up the fake website.
[58:13.070 --> 58:13.950] [SPEAKER_16]: You wait for somebody to bite.
[58:14.170 --> 58:14.730] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, there's...
[58:14.730 --> 58:15.210] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, yeah.
[58:15.350 --> 58:16.270] [SPEAKER_20]: That's one of the ways.
[58:16.570 --> 58:18.370] [SPEAKER_20]: We used to do it that way.
[58:19.010 --> 58:24.430] [SPEAKER_20]: Several times in a row, we would just put up a website and find a way to publicize it one way or the other.
[58:24.430 --> 58:47.410] [SPEAKER_20]: That, with the way we got started with the fake World Trade Organization website, we put it up and fortunately the WTO hated it and reacted and put a press release about it on their website and sent us email insulting us or telling us that we had insulted them and it wasn't that terrible.
[58:47.410 --> 59:01.630] [SPEAKER_20]: And we used that opportunity to blast it out and tell thousands of people about it, which got it into the search engines, whatever they were in 1999, and that helped it become a trap.
[59:02.330 --> 59:05.950] [SPEAKER_20]: People would search on World Trade Organization because of all the links to it.
[59:06.030 --> 59:07.710] [SPEAKER_20]: They would often get ours.
[59:07.910 --> 59:11.090] [SPEAKER_16]: It's all about the links, all about where you place on Google and that kind of thing.
[59:11.090 --> 59:17.210] [SPEAKER_20]: But since then, we've moved on to other ways because you can't really rely on that and Google has improved its algorithms and so on.
[59:17.370 --> 59:25.750] [SPEAKER_20]: So it's very easy, though, as you know, just to call up a place or email a place and just pretend to be somebody you're not.
[59:25.950 --> 59:28.590] [SPEAKER_20]: And we've done that as well.
[59:29.210 --> 59:30.390] [SPEAKER_20]: That's putting it mildly.
[59:31.570 --> 59:49.690] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, yeah, but I mean, the technique to actually get in is, I mean, Mike can explain this better than I, but he's posed as somebody from a public relations agency and emailed a conference and said, we have a very, very high profile client who's very interested in your wonderful conference.
[59:49.690 --> 59:52.270] [SPEAKER_20]: And, you know, the rest is easy.
[59:54.670 --> 59:55.470] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's...
[59:56.350 --> 01:00:07.850] [SPEAKER_16]: Aren't you scared, though, when you're standing up there on stage and you're saying that you're the WTO, you're saying you're ExxonMobil or Dow Chemical, you're representatives, and you're in front of a bunch of suits that are busy taking notes of things that you're saying.
[01:00:07.850 --> 01:00:10.750] [SPEAKER_16]: And you just keep saying more and more outrageous things.
[01:00:11.070 --> 01:00:13.830] [SPEAKER_16]: And they don't seem to bat an eye.
[01:00:13.830 --> 01:00:22.130] [SPEAKER_16]: They just keep writing down and then asking questions, agreeing with you, all kinds of things you just not think are possible in the first place.
[01:00:22.370 --> 01:00:25.550] [SPEAKER_16]: What's going through your head when you're up there on stage while this is happening?
[01:00:26.270 --> 01:00:30.270] [SPEAKER_20]: What's going through my head is I hope I don't crack up.
[01:00:30.390 --> 01:00:36.110] [SPEAKER_20]: And, of course, I never do because it's such a high-tension thing you don't want to crack up.
[01:00:36.230 --> 01:00:39.950] [SPEAKER_20]: And also, I hope this shot looks really good in the movie.
[01:00:40.450 --> 01:00:41.710] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, yeah.
[01:00:41.710 --> 01:00:47.770] [SPEAKER_20]: And the fact that they're sitting there taking notes and just listening and nodding is going to be really spooky for audiences.
[01:00:48.070 --> 01:00:48.750] [SPEAKER_20]: So that's good.
[01:00:48.910 --> 01:00:49.230] [SPEAKER_04]: Rob?
[01:00:49.470 --> 01:00:52.890] [SPEAKER_04]: It amazes me how you guys go into these situations.
[01:00:53.030 --> 01:01:01.350] [SPEAKER_04]: And just basically, with the addition of a press suit and a haircut, you're immediately accepted by these people because you look like one of them.
[01:01:01.670 --> 01:01:07.810] [SPEAKER_04]: And so much of the social engineering job that you do is based on just what you look like going in and blending in.
[01:01:07.810 --> 01:01:16.210] [SPEAKER_04]: And so do you find that's still the main part of what you do, whatever, if it's via a website or a press release or what have you?
[01:01:16.370 --> 01:01:19.550] [SPEAKER_04]: If people think you look like one of them, they just accept you without question?
[01:01:20.670 --> 01:01:21.070] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[01:01:21.310 --> 01:01:24.010] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, yeah, that's basically what we do, I think.
[01:01:24.110 --> 01:01:25.350] [SPEAKER_20]: It makes for good humor.
[01:01:25.350 --> 01:01:32.710] [SPEAKER_20]: You know, if you can really convince yourself that you are who you say you are, then you can usually convince other people.
[01:01:33.890 --> 01:01:35.270] [SPEAKER_20]: So, yeah, yeah.
[01:01:35.450 --> 01:01:47.390] [SPEAKER_20]: Whether it's a website or a press release or doing it live in front of people, it's a matter of kind of, you know, we've come up with an exercise recently to help people who aren't funny be funny, funnier than they are.
[01:01:47.390 --> 01:01:49.970] [SPEAKER_20]: And it's to basically try not to be funny.
[01:01:50.530 --> 01:01:55.510] [SPEAKER_20]: Try to be your target, your enemy, like whoever you're trying to make fun of.
[01:01:55.590 --> 01:02:00.030] [SPEAKER_20]: Just try to really give their point of view as honestly and sincerely like your life depends on it.
[01:02:00.110 --> 01:02:01.370] [SPEAKER_20]: Just really go for it.
[01:02:01.530 --> 01:02:02.970] [SPEAKER_20]: And it's amazing.
[01:02:03.310 --> 01:02:04.630] [SPEAKER_20]: Like, it's really funny.
[01:02:05.030 --> 01:02:12.870] [SPEAKER_20]: People represent the nuclear industry in a really funny way if they try to not be funny about it and try to actually defend them.
[01:02:12.870 --> 01:02:14.670] [SPEAKER_20]: Because, you know, what's to defend?
[01:02:14.690 --> 01:02:15.650] [SPEAKER_20]: It's preposterous.
[01:02:15.730 --> 01:02:17.170] [SPEAKER_20]: So you do your best and that's funny.
[01:02:17.370 --> 01:02:23.330] [SPEAKER_16]: We're speaking with Andy Bickelbaum and Mike Bonanno over in Scotland on the telephone from the Yes Men.
[01:02:23.430 --> 01:02:25.450] [SPEAKER_16]: These are the Yes Men here in the studio right now.
[01:02:25.450 --> 01:02:27.790] [SPEAKER_16]: We're offering a special Yes Men package.
[01:02:29.010 --> 01:02:34.050] [SPEAKER_16]: For only $75, you'll get both DVDs and a fake newspaper autographed by the Yes Men.
[01:02:34.390 --> 01:02:36.070] [SPEAKER_16]: And it's awesome.
[01:02:36.230 --> 01:02:37.610] [SPEAKER_16]: I'm going to pledge for one of these myself.
[01:02:39.450 --> 01:02:52.070] [SPEAKER_16]: I think the epitome of social engineering, what these guys do, and you'll simply learn so much about how it's done, how things can get messed up, and how you recover from that.
[01:02:52.910 --> 01:02:54.630] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[01:02:54.630 --> 01:02:56.090] [SPEAKER_16]: Show your support for the radio station.
[01:02:56.190 --> 01:03:02.850] [SPEAKER_16]: Keep us going so we can talk about things like this in the future as well and hopefully inspire other listeners to be a part of this as well.
[01:03:02.930 --> 01:03:04.590] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[01:03:04.750 --> 01:03:06.150] [SPEAKER_16]: $75 gets you the Yes Men package.
[01:03:06.150 --> 01:03:11.050] [SPEAKER_09]: You mentioned before that when you're on stage, you're thinking about hoping that the video comes out.
[01:03:11.110 --> 01:03:16.790] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's obviously very important in this day and age to have documentation of these things because you can disseminate that.
[01:03:16.830 --> 01:03:18.590] [SPEAKER_09]: Then it kind of increases the impact of it.
[01:03:19.450 --> 01:03:26.190] [SPEAKER_09]: But obviously, in a lot of these cases, as we've seen, usually organizations are kind of wary of video cameras.
[01:03:26.370 --> 01:03:28.170] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you bring your own cameras?
[01:03:28.230 --> 01:03:31.810] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you rely on the conference cameras?
[01:03:32.070 --> 01:03:32.430] [SPEAKER_09]: No.
[01:03:32.810 --> 01:03:35.390] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you just tell them, well, we need to document this for our company?
[01:03:35.390 --> 01:03:36.250] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, is it...
[01:03:36.250 --> 01:03:36.410] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[01:03:36.410 --> 01:03:36.590] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[01:03:36.750 --> 01:03:45.290] [SPEAKER_20]: Either we have to document it for our company or there's a separate team that has cameras as well.
[01:03:45.290 --> 01:03:51.950] [SPEAKER_20]: And they say they're a documentary crew making a documentary about textiles or some whatever silly subject there is.
[01:03:54.210 --> 01:04:02.590] [SPEAKER_20]: And one of the principles that we've always had with our actions is never to rely on journalists to get the story.
[01:04:03.110 --> 01:04:09.390] [SPEAKER_20]: In fact, often you prefer them not to be there because they'll interpret it wrong.
[01:04:09.530 --> 01:04:12.530] [SPEAKER_20]: You have to edit it to make it really good.
[01:04:13.170 --> 01:04:20.010] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, to convey what's actually happening, you might have to actually tell a story.
[01:04:20.310 --> 01:04:23.130] [SPEAKER_20]: And that's what press releases are for.
[01:04:23.270 --> 01:04:24.810] [SPEAKER_20]: That's what video news releases are for.
[01:04:25.010 --> 01:04:25.930] [SPEAKER_20]: Everybody does it.
[01:04:26.390 --> 01:04:28.510] [SPEAKER_20]: And activists have to do that as well.
[01:04:29.290 --> 01:04:30.090] [SPEAKER_30]: Mike and Andy.
[01:04:30.630 --> 01:04:31.170] [SPEAKER_20]: Go ahead, Barney.
[01:04:31.170 --> 01:04:32.250] [SPEAKER_30]: I just want to do...
[01:04:32.250 --> 01:04:34.170] [SPEAKER_30]: Well, thanks for coming on the show, first of all.
[01:04:34.310 --> 01:04:55.190] [SPEAKER_30]: But I wanted to, well, congratulate you on the BBC World hack and wanted to ask you what other major media news outlets around the world utterly failed to do fact-checking and bring you on as someone you weren't.
[01:04:57.530 --> 01:05:00.070] [SPEAKER_16]: Or which ones don't, whichever is a shorter range.
[01:05:00.090 --> 01:05:00.290] [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, yeah.
[01:05:01.090 --> 01:05:08.450] [SPEAKER_30]: Which other major media news outlets have had you on as posing as representatives of some corporation?
[01:05:08.670 --> 01:05:10.270] [SPEAKER_20]: I can only remember one.
[01:05:10.570 --> 01:05:12.930] [SPEAKER_20]: Mike, can you remember anything other than CNBC?
[01:05:13.510 --> 01:05:14.750] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, yeah.
[01:05:14.950 --> 01:05:22.010] [SPEAKER_14]: CNBC Market Rap Europe had one Grand West Hewlett Berry on from the WTO.
[01:05:22.010 --> 01:05:22.830] [SPEAKER_14]: And that was Andy.
[01:05:23.010 --> 01:05:26.130] [SPEAKER_14]: That was back in the early 2000s.
[01:05:26.390 --> 01:05:28.050] [SPEAKER_16]: What was that name again, Mike?
[01:05:28.910 --> 01:05:30.990] [SPEAKER_14]: Grand West Hewlett Berry.
[01:05:32.110 --> 01:05:34.510] [SPEAKER_16]: Aren't you kind of tempting fate with a name like that?
[01:05:35.310 --> 01:05:36.410] [SPEAKER_14]: One would think.
[01:05:36.890 --> 01:05:37.670] [SPEAKER_14]: One would think.
[01:05:37.790 --> 01:05:39.130] [SPEAKER_16]: And apparently they don't think.
[01:05:39.250 --> 01:05:39.990] [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, we'll continue.
[01:05:41.370 --> 01:05:51.670] [SPEAKER_14]: But more recently, we haven't faked them out with appearances, live appearances, but they have picked up a lot of press releases.
[01:05:51.670 --> 01:05:56.330] [SPEAKER_14]: So, for example, we were working with a group called U.S.
[01:05:56.390 --> 01:06:07.490] [SPEAKER_14]: Uncut, who put out a release about General Electric giving back their tax credit that they received last year.
[01:06:08.910 --> 01:06:13.330] [SPEAKER_14]: And that was, of course, fake, but it was reported as real.
[01:06:13.330 --> 01:06:17.170] [SPEAKER_14]: And we have another case not so long ago where the U.S.
[01:06:17.510 --> 01:06:22.450] [SPEAKER_14]: Chamber of Commerce announced that they were going to get behind climate legislation that was going through Congress.
[01:06:22.930 --> 01:06:26.110] [SPEAKER_14]: And that was Andy again behind the podium.
[01:06:26.470 --> 01:06:32.210] [SPEAKER_14]: But the press release itself was covered by Fox News.
[01:06:32.210 --> 01:06:35.250] [SPEAKER_14]: It was read out, you know, as if it was real.
[01:06:35.250 --> 01:06:40.010] [SPEAKER_14]: So, there's newscasters who have been fooled, but not necessarily...
[01:06:40.010 --> 01:06:43.230] [SPEAKER_14]: We haven't been invited on TV very much.
[01:06:44.350 --> 01:06:51.090] [SPEAKER_09]: What's the reasoning behind using a completely made-up name as opposed to, say, someone who would actually exist within the organization?
[01:06:51.090 --> 01:06:52.930] [SPEAKER_09]: Are there legal ramifications?
[01:06:52.930 --> 01:06:58.430] [SPEAKER_09]: Or is it just that it's hard because they can't verify that the person exists that, you know, then...
[01:06:58.430 --> 01:07:00.070] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's a Google thing.
[01:07:00.330 --> 01:07:01.530] [SPEAKER_09]: It's just technical.
[01:07:01.530 --> 01:07:06.370] [SPEAKER_09]: So, if they don't really exist, then it's harder for them to find any real information about the person.
[01:07:06.490 --> 01:07:06.610] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[01:07:06.890 --> 01:07:11.410] [SPEAKER_20]: And also, it's not legal concern, but it's maybe ethical.
[01:07:11.590 --> 01:07:12.850] [SPEAKER_20]: Like, who cares about this person?
[01:07:12.850 --> 01:07:15.870] [SPEAKER_20]: Unless they're a really high-profile person, it would be great to impersonate them.
[01:07:15.990 --> 01:07:17.670] [SPEAKER_20]: But then everybody would know what they look like.
[01:07:17.790 --> 01:07:19.610] [SPEAKER_20]: So, that wouldn't work very well.
[01:07:20.670 --> 01:07:25.730] [SPEAKER_20]: But, yeah, it's more just that the people in the corporation aren't really our targets.
[01:07:25.730 --> 01:07:30.810] [SPEAKER_20]: We're not saying anybody's evil who works in a corporation, or even the CEO isn't evil, necessarily.
[01:07:31.070 --> 01:07:31.570] [SPEAKER_20]: It's just...
[01:07:32.570 --> 01:07:35.710] [SPEAKER_20]: It's the actual system that is evil.
[01:07:35.930 --> 01:07:37.470] [SPEAKER_20]: It's not even the one corporation.
[01:07:37.970 --> 01:07:38.710] [SPEAKER_20]: And it's not...
[01:07:38.710 --> 01:07:39.570] [SPEAKER_20]: Evil's the wrong word.
[01:07:40.910 --> 01:07:45.890] [SPEAKER_20]: But there's this big system that benefits the very wealthy, and it's engineered that way.
[01:07:45.990 --> 01:07:49.870] [SPEAKER_20]: It's very carefully constructed to do that at the expense of everybody else.
[01:07:49.950 --> 01:07:52.850] [SPEAKER_20]: And that's really what we're trying to say with all of our actions.
[01:07:52.850 --> 01:07:59.690] [SPEAKER_20]: And it's not that there are any bad apples, or that certain people are psychopathic, although they are.
[01:08:00.450 --> 01:08:02.830] [SPEAKER_20]: It's that there's this entire system.
[01:08:02.830 --> 01:08:07.990] [SPEAKER_20]: So, we wouldn't take names and impersonate people, generally, for that reason.
[01:08:08.250 --> 01:08:16.510] [SPEAKER_16]: We're here with Andy and Mike of The Yes Men, showing us all kinds of interesting techniques, philosophies, experiences, things like that.
[01:08:16.510 --> 01:08:36.070] [SPEAKER_16]: And we're offering the Yes Men package, two of their DVDs, two of the films that have come out over the past few years, showing these particular, I guess, adventures in social justice, which is presented through comedy, it's presented through social engineering,
[01:08:36.070 --> 01:08:38.110] [SPEAKER_16]: but it is effective in getting the message out.
[01:08:38.110 --> 01:08:41.470] [SPEAKER_16]: And you'll see how it's done, and the reactions, and all that kind of thing.
[01:08:41.590 --> 01:08:49.690] [SPEAKER_16]: You'll get two autographed DVDs, and a fake newspaper that they also put out, and handed out to unsuspecting commuters at various rush hours.
[01:08:50.150 --> 01:08:50.850] [SPEAKER_16]: That's for a pledge.
[01:08:50.950 --> 01:08:51.350] [SPEAKER_16]: It's $75.
[01:08:51.690 --> 01:08:52.390] [SPEAKER_16]: It's an amazing deal.
[01:08:52.510 --> 01:08:53.750] [SPEAKER_16]: Only good till 9 p.m.
[01:08:53.870 --> 01:08:54.010] [SPEAKER_16]: tonight.
[01:08:54.170 --> 01:08:55.990] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[01:08:55.990 --> 01:08:57.230] [SPEAKER_16]: We have three calls on the line.
[01:08:57.390 --> 01:08:59.490] [SPEAKER_16]: Over $1,000 so far, which is great.
[01:09:00.110 --> 01:09:01.950] [SPEAKER_16]: Please keep those calls coming in.
[01:09:01.950 --> 01:09:05.150] [SPEAKER_16]: And again, we can only offer this for a very brief time.
[01:09:05.990 --> 01:09:07.830] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[01:09:07.830 --> 01:09:14.810] [SPEAKER_16]: What I'd like to do is play a little bit more from the Yes Men Fix the World.
[01:09:14.890 --> 01:09:26.790] [SPEAKER_16]: This is basically more about what we were just talking about with fooling BBC World into getting on the air and speaking before 300 million people, which, you know, I don't know how.
[01:09:27.950 --> 01:09:29.110] [SPEAKER_16]: That was you, Andy, right?
[01:09:30.310 --> 01:09:33.670] [SPEAKER_16]: Being on TV in front of 300 million people, how did that feel live, right?
[01:09:33.890 --> 01:09:36.190] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, it was in a broom closet, so it felt okay.
[01:09:36.370 --> 01:09:36.610] [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[01:09:36.790 --> 01:09:36.990] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[01:09:37.210 --> 01:09:39.590] [SPEAKER_20]: If they had all been there, it would have been really awkward.
[01:09:39.730 --> 01:09:41.530] [SPEAKER_16]: And it wasn't in BBC Studios.
[01:09:41.730 --> 01:09:43.710] [SPEAKER_20]: It was, but it was in the Paris studio.
[01:09:44.050 --> 01:09:45.050] [SPEAKER_16]: You didn't go to London, though.
[01:09:45.150 --> 01:09:46.210] [SPEAKER_16]: You wanted neutral territory.
[01:09:46.470 --> 01:09:49.330] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, I lived in Paris at the time, so it was natural.
[01:09:49.390 --> 01:09:55.470] [SPEAKER_20]: But also, it was lucky because it was a broom closet, and there was one technician there, and there was no ID checking or anything.
[01:09:55.850 --> 01:09:57.630] [SPEAKER_16]: All right, let's listen to how this unfolded.
[01:09:57.630 --> 01:10:00.770] [SPEAKER_16]: This is an excerpt from The Yes Men Fix the World.
[01:10:00.870 --> 01:10:06.390] [SPEAKER_16]: It's yours, along with The Yes Men, the other film, and the fake newspaper for a pledge of $75.
[01:10:06.690 --> 01:10:08.090] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[01:10:08.390 --> 01:10:15.330] [SPEAKER_16]: And for an additional $50, you get a full archive of Off The Hook, every show we've ever done from 1988 until 2011.
[01:10:15.830 --> 01:10:17.890] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[01:10:17.890 --> 01:10:20.430] [SPEAKER_16]: Let's hear The Yes Men Fix the World.
[01:10:25.470 --> 01:10:26.850] [SPEAKER_13]: Back at home...
[01:10:26.850 --> 01:10:28.030] [SPEAKER_01]: You have new mail.
[01:10:28.170 --> 01:10:28.930] [SPEAKER_13]: ...we had mail.
[01:10:29.470 --> 01:10:32.670] [SPEAKER_13]: Turned out, our DAO site was the gift that kept on giving.
[01:10:33.570 --> 01:10:36.110] [SPEAKER_13]: This time, it wasn't a mere conference.
[01:10:36.330 --> 01:10:37.990] [SPEAKER_13]: We'd hit the jackpot.
[01:10:39.070 --> 01:10:49.570] [SPEAKER_13]: The BBC, perhaps the world's most respected news organization, was doing a big broadcast about Bhopal, and they wanted to know whether DAO might finally clean up their mess.
[01:10:50.030 --> 01:10:55.230] [SPEAKER_13]: The interview, they said, would be broadcast to 300 million people.
[01:10:56.130 --> 01:10:58.210] [SPEAKER_13]: This was what we'd been waiting for.
[01:10:58.530 --> 01:11:04.870] [SPEAKER_13]: To the BBC's great surprise, DAO emailed back to say they would be delighted to speak publicly about the catastrophe.
[01:11:05.490 --> 01:11:12.350] [SPEAKER_13]: As for us, 300 million people was about a million times bigger than any other audience we'd ever had.
[01:11:12.350 --> 01:11:13.650] [SPEAKER_13]: We were scared.
[01:11:13.750 --> 01:11:22.370] [SPEAKER_13]: So we asked the BBC if instead of coming to their headquarters in London, we could meet them in neutral territory, the original land of revolution.
[01:11:27.790 --> 01:11:28.990] [SPEAKER_18]: Are you a little nervous?
[01:11:29.450 --> 01:11:30.570] [SPEAKER_18]: I'm so nervous.
[01:11:31.070 --> 01:11:32.030] [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, God.
[01:11:32.210 --> 01:11:33.690] [SPEAKER_18]: It's like going to the guillotine.
[01:11:36.070 --> 01:11:40.290] [SPEAKER_18]: I think it's right near where they used to have the guillotine, too, in Paris.
[01:11:40.730 --> 01:11:41.630] [SPEAKER_18]: The office.
[01:11:48.150 --> 01:11:50.630] [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, I think it's the biggest thing we've ever done.
[01:11:51.950 --> 01:11:52.810] [SPEAKER_18]: Look at this.
[01:11:58.070 --> 01:12:00.310] [SPEAKER_17]: I haven't combed my hair in like...
[01:12:01.670 --> 01:12:02.730] [SPEAKER_17]: 20 years.
[01:12:03.030 --> 01:12:03.890] [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, really.
[01:12:04.510 --> 01:12:06.510] [SPEAKER_17]: Like, I think I used to do it this way.
[01:12:07.670 --> 01:12:08.150] [SPEAKER_26]: All right.
[01:12:11.070 --> 01:12:11.950] [SPEAKER_26]: Oh, God.
[01:12:16.310 --> 01:12:17.110] [SPEAKER_26]: Oh, God.
[01:12:18.410 --> 01:12:22.470] [SPEAKER_18]: When we acquired Union Carbide three years ago, we knew what we were getting.
[01:12:22.670 --> 01:12:25.590] [SPEAKER_20]: And today we are prepared to do the obvious.
[01:12:27.850 --> 01:12:28.670] [SPEAKER_26]: Let's see.
[01:12:28.890 --> 01:12:31.430] [SPEAKER_26]: Um, don't film too much when we get there, I think.
[01:12:35.100 --> 01:12:35.440] Hi.
[01:12:35.500 --> 01:12:36.460] [SPEAKER_26]: I'm so nervous.
[01:12:39.280 --> 01:12:41.980] [SPEAKER_07]: And you're watching BBC World, our main headlines.
[01:12:42.500 --> 01:12:46.060] [SPEAKER_07]: The world's worst industrial accident is being remembered in India today.
[01:12:46.060 --> 01:12:51.980] [SPEAKER_07]: It's 20 years since deadly gas leaked from the Union Carbide chemical plant in the city of Bhopal.
[01:12:52.120 --> 01:12:55.160] [SPEAKER_07]: At least 18,000 deaths are attributed to the leak.
[01:12:55.500 --> 01:12:59.280] [SPEAKER_07]: And many local people say the contamination has never been properly cleared up.
[01:12:59.380 --> 01:12:59.480] [SPEAKER_26]: Yeah.
[01:12:59.940 --> 01:13:02.820] [SPEAKER_26]: Should I typically just look right into the camera?
[01:13:03.200 --> 01:13:03.300] Okay.
[01:13:03.300 --> 01:13:08.960] [SPEAKER_29]: The factory still exists here, and that's been a real problem for the people living here locally.
[01:13:09.320 --> 01:13:13.340] [SPEAKER_29]: I mean, there's a site, I've been to it, and it's full of toxic waste.
[01:13:13.460 --> 01:13:19.140] [SPEAKER_29]: People who are living in these houses, they've all got a story to tell about that day 20 years ago.
[01:13:19.280 --> 01:13:24.740] [SPEAKER_29]: Many of them lost members of their family, and they say that they're continuing to suffer because of the tragedy.
[01:13:24.740 --> 01:13:27.360] [SPEAKER_29]: And they're saying somebody needs to answer for this.
[01:13:27.860 --> 01:13:32.400] [SPEAKER_29]: Legally, what they're saying is that they want to pursue the company to try and clean up the site.
[01:13:32.560 --> 01:13:36.360] [SPEAKER_29]: But whether the company will accept liability seems doubtful.
[01:13:36.500 --> 01:13:39.720] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, joining us live from Paris now is Jude Finisterra.
[01:13:39.800 --> 01:13:43.440] [SPEAKER_07]: He's a spokesman for Dow Chemicals, which took over Union Carbide.
[01:13:43.440 --> 01:13:45.280] [SPEAKER_07]: Good morning to you.
[01:13:45.820 --> 01:13:48.740] [SPEAKER_07]: A day of commemoration in Bhopal.
[01:13:48.840 --> 01:13:53.280] [SPEAKER_07]: Do you now accept responsibility for what happened?
[01:13:54.400 --> 01:13:55.460] [SPEAKER_20]: Steve, yes.
[01:13:55.840 --> 01:14:03.060] [SPEAKER_20]: Today is a great day for all of us at Dow, and I think for millions of people around the world as well.
[01:14:03.240 --> 01:14:05.180] [SPEAKER_20]: It's 20 years since the disaster.
[01:14:05.180 --> 01:14:15.840] [SPEAKER_20]: And today, I'm very, very happy to announce that for the first time, Dow is accepting full responsibility for the Bhopal catastrophe.
[01:14:16.120 --> 01:14:34.740] [SPEAKER_20]: We have a $12 billion plan to finally, at long last, fully compensate the victims, including the 120,000 who may need medical care for their entire lives, and to fully and swiftly remediate the Bhopal plant site.
[01:14:35.180 --> 01:14:40.080] [SPEAKER_20]: Now, when we acquired Union Carbide three years ago, we knew what we were getting.
[01:14:40.380 --> 01:14:42.580] [SPEAKER_20]: And it's worth $12 billion.
[01:14:43.520 --> 01:14:44.720] [SPEAKER_20]: $12 billion.
[01:14:45.280 --> 01:14:57.380] [SPEAKER_20]: We have resolved to liquidate Union Carbide, this nightmare for the world and this headache for Dow, and use the $12 billion to adequately compensate the victims.
[01:14:57.620 --> 01:15:01.720] [SPEAKER_07]: Jude, that's good news that you have finally accepted responsibility.
[01:15:02.480 --> 01:15:04.140] [SPEAKER_07]: Some people would say too late.
[01:15:04.280 --> 01:15:06.240] [SPEAKER_07]: It's three years, almost four years on.
[01:15:06.420 --> 01:15:11.600] [SPEAKER_20]: When we acquired Union Carbide, we did settle their liabilities in the United States immediately.
[01:15:13.040 --> 01:15:17.480] [SPEAKER_20]: And we are now, three years later, prepared to do the same in India.
[01:15:17.700 --> 01:15:19.160] [SPEAKER_20]: We should have done it three years ago.
[01:15:19.160 --> 01:15:20.280] [SPEAKER_20]: We are doing it now.
[01:15:20.280 --> 01:15:24.040] [SPEAKER_20]: And I would also like to say that this is no small matter, Steve.
[01:15:24.200 --> 01:15:37.460] [SPEAKER_20]: This is the first time in history that a publicly owned company of anything near the size of Dow has performed an action which is significantly against its bottom line simply because it's the right thing to do.
[01:15:37.460 --> 01:15:50.660] [SPEAKER_20]: And our shareholders may take a bit of a hit, Steve, but I think that if they're anything like me, they will be ecstatic to be part of such a historic occasion of doing right by those that we've wronged.
[01:15:50.780 --> 01:15:57.660] [SPEAKER_07]: Just to reiterate what Jude Finisterra, the spokesman for Dow Chemicals, has just said.
[01:15:57.820 --> 01:16:04.780] [SPEAKER_07]: He says Dow Chemicals now fully accept responsibility for the events in Bhopal.
[01:16:09.350 --> 01:16:09.790] [SPEAKER_17]: Great.
[01:16:10.250 --> 01:16:10.570] [SPEAKER_18]: That's it?
[01:16:10.610 --> 01:16:10.950] [SPEAKER_18]: Well done.
[01:16:11.050 --> 01:16:11.250] [SPEAKER_18]: Great.
[01:16:11.850 --> 01:16:14.610] [SPEAKER_18]: Now they wanted... Now you do... Radio...
[01:16:14.610 --> 01:16:15.590] [SPEAKER_18]: I can tell you one thing.
[01:16:15.770 --> 01:16:17.230] [SPEAKER_18]: We're not going out of business.
[01:16:17.650 --> 01:16:19.310] [SPEAKER_20]: We will continue to make profit.
[01:16:19.470 --> 01:16:22.570] [SPEAKER_20]: We will simply make slightly less profit than normal.
[01:16:22.830 --> 01:16:24.950] [SPEAKER_20]: But we are doing the right thing.
[01:16:25.090 --> 01:16:29.210] [SPEAKER_20]: We're comparing here, though, the value of money to the value of human life.
[01:16:29.250 --> 01:16:30.730] [SPEAKER_20]: And there is no comparison.
[01:16:32.210 --> 01:16:33.490] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a good thing to announce.
[01:16:33.790 --> 01:16:35.050] [SPEAKER_01]: For once... Exactly.
[01:16:35.090 --> 01:16:37.150] [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, how often does Dow get to...
[01:16:37.150 --> 01:16:37.570] [SPEAKER_18]: You know?
[01:16:38.210 --> 01:16:41.310] [SPEAKER_18]: It wouldn't be... I wouldn't want to be a Dow spokesperson otherwise.
[01:16:42.470 --> 01:16:47.670] [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, you know, this might be the best hack I've ever heard or seen.
[01:16:48.130 --> 01:16:49.990] [SPEAKER_16]: And, Andy, I just cannot...
[01:16:49.990 --> 01:17:01.690] [SPEAKER_16]: I cannot express enough how in awe I am of what you pulled off there in front of BBC World audience, 300 million people impersonating Dow Chemical, taking responsibility for Bhopal.
[01:17:02.450 --> 01:17:04.390] [SPEAKER_16]: What happened after that?
[01:17:05.090 --> 01:17:06.210] [SPEAKER_16]: How long did it take?
[01:17:06.290 --> 01:17:17.990] [SPEAKER_16]: And first of all, let me just say that by calling 212-209-2950, pledging $75, you'll get that film, plus another film, plus a newspaper that was created by the Yes Men, all autographed and sent to you.
[01:17:18.350 --> 01:17:20.610] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[01:17:21.050 --> 01:17:23.150] [SPEAKER_16]: It's utterly awesome and incredible.
[01:17:23.390 --> 01:17:26.410] [SPEAKER_16]: But so when did they start to realize that they'd been punked?
[01:17:28.070 --> 01:17:32.110] [SPEAKER_20]: We got a call about half an hour later from the BBC.
[01:17:33.290 --> 01:17:37.470] [SPEAKER_20]: I went back to my apartment, got this call, and I tried to talk to them.
[01:17:37.610 --> 01:17:49.450] [SPEAKER_20]: I tried to do the social engineering thing and say, well, you know, Union Carbide, they were saying, had not... You know, they had reached Union Carbide headquarters, and they'd said there was no such person.
[01:17:49.590 --> 01:17:51.190] [SPEAKER_20]: And I said, well, of course not.
[01:17:51.190 --> 01:17:53.390] [SPEAKER_20]: We have just liquidated Union Carbide.
[01:17:53.610 --> 01:17:58.810] [SPEAKER_20]: And so... It did not work.
[01:17:59.150 --> 01:17:59.330] [SPEAKER_20]: No?
[01:17:59.630 --> 01:18:00.010] [SPEAKER_20]: No.
[01:18:00.850 --> 01:18:02.030] [SPEAKER_20]: I think they did laugh.
[01:18:02.030 --> 01:18:03.450] [SPEAKER_16]: It didn't have to work at that point.
[01:18:03.650 --> 01:18:03.890] [SPEAKER_16]: No, no.
[01:18:03.890 --> 01:18:05.330] [SPEAKER_20]: There was no reason for it to work.
[01:18:06.230 --> 01:18:09.010] [SPEAKER_20]: These things aren't meant to really fool people for very long.
[01:18:09.190 --> 01:18:13.830] [SPEAKER_16]: How angry were they when they found out that they just made fools of themselves in front of the entire world?
[01:18:14.010 --> 01:18:14.810] [SPEAKER_20]: They were British.
[01:18:17.530 --> 01:18:19.810] [SPEAKER_20]: They were very gracious about it.
[01:18:19.990 --> 01:18:22.830] [SPEAKER_20]: They invited us back into the studio that evening.
[01:18:24.110 --> 01:18:25.370] [SPEAKER_16]: Their studio in London?
[01:18:25.670 --> 01:18:27.650] [SPEAKER_16]: No, the same studio, yeah, yeah.
[01:18:27.930 --> 01:18:30.390] [SPEAKER_20]: Different show, but same studio.
[01:18:30.870 --> 01:18:31.150] [SPEAKER_16]: Wow.
[01:18:31.310 --> 01:18:37.690] [SPEAKER_16]: Now, I imagine Dow Chemical probably made a few furious phone calls when they got wind what was going out over global airwaves.
[01:18:37.910 --> 01:18:39.730] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, I don't think they were too happy.
[01:18:39.990 --> 01:18:42.410] [SPEAKER_20]: They were probably not British about it.
[01:18:42.590 --> 01:18:42.710] [SPEAKER_20]: No.
[01:18:43.390 --> 01:18:44.070] [SPEAKER_16]: And what did they say?
[01:18:44.190 --> 01:18:45.850] [SPEAKER_16]: They must have said something to you in some form.
[01:18:46.010 --> 01:18:46.350] [SPEAKER_20]: No.
[01:18:46.630 --> 01:18:47.130] [SPEAKER_16]: No, really?
[01:18:47.430 --> 01:18:48.050] [SPEAKER_20]: No, no, no.
[01:18:48.170 --> 01:18:50.270] [SPEAKER_20]: They barely said anything to anybody.
[01:18:50.470 --> 01:18:54.670] [SPEAKER_20]: They wrote this little, very terse little statement that's in the movie.
[01:18:54.810 --> 01:18:56.550] [SPEAKER_20]: You'll see that they just deny it.
[01:18:56.690 --> 01:18:57.270] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, that's the thing.
[01:18:57.430 --> 01:19:09.830] [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, you've already given them this incredible public relations coup where they can take responsibility, do the right thing, help people out, accept responsibility, and they have to go and say, no, we're not going to do any of that.
[01:19:10.110 --> 01:19:14.550] [SPEAKER_16]: How do you say that gracefully without looking like really evil people?
[01:19:15.010 --> 01:19:15.930] Well, you don't.
[01:19:16.130 --> 01:19:18.030] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, they had a prepared statement.
[01:19:18.290 --> 01:19:25.590] [SPEAKER_20]: They probably, you know, probably they'd prepared it years before, but it was, you know, two lines and they just read it and that's all they could do.
[01:19:25.750 --> 01:19:29.350] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, I think they should have just run with it, you know, said, okay, yeah, yeah.
[01:19:29.790 --> 01:19:30.530] [SPEAKER_20]: What's it to us?
[01:19:30.630 --> 01:19:30.750] [SPEAKER_20]: Sure.
[01:19:30.930 --> 01:19:32.170] [SPEAKER_20]: We'll compensate the survivors.
[01:19:32.270 --> 01:19:33.730] [SPEAKER_20]: Liquidate a $12 billion company.
[01:19:33.830 --> 01:19:34.190] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, whatever.
[01:19:34.190 --> 01:19:37.010] [SPEAKER_16]: That would be the hack of the world, for sure.
[01:19:37.250 --> 01:19:38.570] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, all history.
[01:19:38.970 --> 01:19:46.190] [SPEAKER_20]: No, their response, their actual response was so disappointing that we had to actually do one much better for them.
[01:19:46.830 --> 01:19:58.590] [SPEAKER_20]: So we very quickly wrote a press release on their behalf, attacking us, denying the hoax, saying how terrible we were, and saying all the many, many things they wouldn't do.
[01:19:58.890 --> 01:20:02.610] [SPEAKER_20]: Like they would not compensate the Bopalis, their share price would not go down.
[01:20:02.770 --> 01:20:05.130] [SPEAKER_20]: Therefore, they would not clean up the site.
[01:20:05.270 --> 01:20:06.530] [SPEAKER_20]: They would not do all these things.
[01:20:07.290 --> 01:20:08.790] [SPEAKER_16]: And was that picked up by the media as well?
[01:20:08.890 --> 01:20:09.190] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[01:20:09.570 --> 01:20:10.170] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, that was.
[01:20:11.790 --> 01:20:16.510] [SPEAKER_20]: And we still get people occasionally today who say, wow, you really got down to react.
[01:20:18.590 --> 01:20:21.150] [SPEAKER_16]: Mike, what are your recollections of this?
[01:20:22.330 --> 01:20:25.250] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I no longer have any recollections.
[01:20:25.390 --> 01:20:29.710] [SPEAKER_14]: I've just been listening to Andy talk about it, and I was like, yeah, that must be what happened.
[01:20:31.770 --> 01:20:32.550] [SPEAKER_14]: Come on.
[01:20:32.750 --> 01:20:33.110] [SPEAKER_16]: Wow.
[01:20:34.170 --> 01:20:34.610] [SPEAKER_30]: Hey, guys.
[01:20:34.830 --> 01:20:35.370] [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, Bernie.
[01:20:35.730 --> 01:20:39.150] [SPEAKER_30]: I had one of the best, world's greatest hacks I've ever heard.
[01:20:39.390 --> 01:20:58.030] [SPEAKER_30]: I've heard it before, of course, but last night I was listening to BBC World Service, and they are commemorating the 80th anniversary of the BBC World Service, and they were playing some of the most noteworthy moments in BBC World's history of reporting,
[01:20:58.090 --> 01:21:08.370] [SPEAKER_30]: but they didn't play that, and I think that was a glaring omission, and they really should have, because that stuck in my mind probably as much as anything that BBC World Service has ever reported.
[01:21:08.610 --> 01:21:11.110] [SPEAKER_16]: It was aired once, right?
[01:21:11.250 --> 01:21:12.250] [SPEAKER_16]: They didn't repeat it.
[01:21:12.370 --> 01:21:12.650] [SPEAKER_16]: No.
[01:21:12.770 --> 01:21:13.650] [SPEAKER_16]: All right, but then...
[01:21:13.650 --> 01:21:14.010] [SPEAKER_16]: No, no, no.
[01:21:14.090 --> 01:21:16.810] [SPEAKER_14]: They immediately lost the tape afterward.
[01:21:17.750 --> 01:21:20.370] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I think Anonymous has the tape, so...
[01:21:20.370 --> 01:21:21.730] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm not kidding either.
[01:21:22.030 --> 01:21:24.370] [SPEAKER_14]: We looked into...
[01:21:24.990 --> 01:21:36.690] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, getting the best quality copy that we could to put in our movie, and they said that the tape no longer exists, but they couldn't find it in their archives, which is, of course, total bull.
[01:21:37.610 --> 01:21:41.950] [SPEAKER_14]: It disappeared, because they are embarrassed about it.
[01:21:42.090 --> 01:21:45.910] [SPEAKER_14]: But I just want to point out that it really... it wasn't their fault.
[01:21:46.090 --> 01:21:49.210] [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, they were actually just trying to get somebody to speak.
[01:21:49.370 --> 01:22:01.790] [SPEAKER_14]: They were trying to get a DAO representative to speak, and if there are people out there who will agree to be DAO representatives, then there's nothing that they could do to inoculate themselves against that, really.
[01:22:02.510 --> 01:22:04.310] [SPEAKER_14]: So it wasn't really their fault.
[01:22:04.530 --> 01:22:05.770] [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, you know...
[01:22:05.770 --> 01:22:09.850] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, they did contact a website that wasn't a DAO website, correct?
[01:22:10.510 --> 01:22:11.870] [SPEAKER_14]: Minor detail.
[01:22:12.310 --> 01:22:13.330] [SPEAKER_14]: Minor detail.
[01:22:13.330 --> 01:22:14.650] [SPEAKER_16]: All right, all right.
[01:22:14.770 --> 01:22:21.250] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, Matt, what other news agencies have fallen for your antics over the years?
[01:22:23.810 --> 01:22:32.450] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, the thing that Mike mentioned, when we issued a press release for General Electric, last year they paid no taxes.
[01:22:32.550 --> 01:22:34.230] [SPEAKER_20]: That was a big story for a while.
[01:22:34.950 --> 01:22:48.250] [SPEAKER_20]: And we issued a press release, or US Uncut actually issued a press release with a little bit of help from us, announcing that they would actually pay the proper amount in taxes that they were not paying.
[01:22:48.970 --> 01:22:51.510] [SPEAKER_20]: And USA Today published that.
[01:22:51.730 --> 01:22:53.670] [SPEAKER_20]: They were the first ones to jump at that.
[01:22:54.550 --> 01:22:55.630] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, online.
[01:22:56.390 --> 01:23:00.350] [SPEAKER_20]: And that got a lot of other journalists laughing at them.
[01:23:00.350 --> 01:23:04.330] [SPEAKER_10]: So I'm on your... Off The Hook, I think is on your distribution list.
[01:23:04.410 --> 01:23:09.910] [SPEAKER_10]: And we get these press releases saying like, hey, we're General Electric, we're going to pay all our taxes.
[01:23:10.350 --> 01:23:16.550] [SPEAKER_10]: And as soon as I see it, I say, oh, that's the yes-men doing one of our things, because there's no way GE would do that.
[01:23:17.190 --> 01:23:20.150] [SPEAKER_10]: You would think USA Today would be at least as smart as I am.
[01:23:20.250 --> 01:23:21.650] [SPEAKER_10]: It's really strange that they're not.
[01:23:21.670 --> 01:23:21.830] [SPEAKER_10]: Really?
[01:23:21.910 --> 01:23:22.370] [SPEAKER_16]: You'd think that?
[01:23:22.450 --> 01:23:22.910] [SPEAKER_16]: I wouldn't.
[01:23:23.050 --> 01:23:25.290] [SPEAKER_10]: I would hope that they would be, you know?
[01:23:25.330 --> 01:23:26.270] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not that bright.
[01:23:26.490 --> 01:23:27.930] [SPEAKER_10]: So it's not a high bar.
[01:23:27.930 --> 01:23:28.590] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[01:23:28.810 --> 01:23:30.810] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, this is something we all would hope for.
[01:23:30.910 --> 01:23:41.930] [SPEAKER_06]: But as we've criticized on the show, time and time again, the media, in many cases, turned into this giant echo chamber where they simply regurgitate various press releases that have been thrown at them without doing too much research.
[01:23:42.190 --> 01:23:49.150] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I mean, if you look around enough, a lot of times you can actually find a new story and actually trace the origin of the press release in which it came from.
[01:23:49.310 --> 01:23:53.950] [SPEAKER_06]: But in this case, they were just following the same pattern, apparently.
[01:23:54.430 --> 01:23:54.430] Yeah.
[01:23:54.670 --> 01:24:06.450] [SPEAKER_16]: Back when I was in college, and I think the statute of limitations has run out on this, I was involved in circulating some fake information through various mischief makers late at night, we post memos up on walls and change policy.
[01:24:06.690 --> 01:24:13.030] [SPEAKER_16]: One thing we did was we instituted a curfew for students at 11pm, just to provoke some outrage.
[01:24:13.510 --> 01:24:19.890] [SPEAKER_16]: And we said this is a throwback to the 1968 statute, and we quoted the statute and all that.
[01:24:20.330 --> 01:24:22.410] [SPEAKER_16]: And it turned into a big story.
[01:24:22.590 --> 01:24:30.630] [SPEAKER_16]: The newspapers, the president's office, they all had to put out releases saying, no, we're not doing this, we're not reverting back to this statute of 1968.
[01:24:30.930 --> 01:24:33.670] [SPEAKER_16]: And what they didn't check was that there was no statute in 1968.
[01:24:34.190 --> 01:24:40.230] [SPEAKER_16]: So we basically rewrote history and introduced a statute back then, just by something they weren't going to check.
[01:24:40.330 --> 01:24:42.990] [SPEAKER_16]: Have you guys ever been able to do that to actually rewrite history?
[01:24:43.030 --> 01:24:44.370] [SPEAKER_16]: And you'll have to tell us exactly what you rewrote.
[01:24:44.490 --> 01:24:45.210] [SPEAKER_16]: We'll read about it someday.
[01:24:45.670 --> 01:24:52.990] [SPEAKER_16]: But is it possible to just go back and change a little slight detail so that, you know, maybe Roosevelt had an extra term or something?
[01:24:53.950 --> 01:24:55.130] [SPEAKER_20]: That would be great.
[01:24:57.510 --> 01:25:00.290] [SPEAKER_06]: People are very believing about these sorts of things.
[01:25:00.570 --> 01:25:03.090] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I don't really care too much about the statute of limitations.
[01:25:03.230 --> 01:25:12.070] [SPEAKER_06]: But I've done some culture jamming stuff in the past, put out various documents for organizations on their behalf, such as for the MTA.
[01:25:12.330 --> 01:25:13.490] [SPEAKER_06]: It helps them out, yeah.
[01:25:13.590 --> 01:25:14.090] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it does.
[01:25:14.170 --> 01:25:18.150] [SPEAKER_06]: And people look at this, and they actually will believe it, even though it's the most absurd thing you've ever seen.
[01:25:18.150 --> 01:25:20.250] [SPEAKER_06]: And they'll actually, it takes a lot of brain power.
[01:25:20.390 --> 01:25:23.210] [SPEAKER_06]: They look at it and they think, for a second they think this is real.
[01:25:23.310 --> 01:25:24.910] [SPEAKER_06]: And then they think, wait, would they really say this?
[01:25:25.310 --> 01:25:27.350] [SPEAKER_06]: Some more seconds go by, maybe half a minute.
[01:25:27.530 --> 01:25:28.790] [SPEAKER_06]: And they're like, no, I'm not.
[01:25:28.890 --> 01:25:29.750] [SPEAKER_06]: And they're still not sure.
[01:25:29.990 --> 01:25:31.590] [SPEAKER_06]: They have to ask someone else has to confirm.
[01:25:31.750 --> 01:25:32.730] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think so.
[01:25:32.830 --> 01:25:35.570] [SPEAKER_16]: But at least they're thinking, you know, they're starting to think.
[01:25:35.710 --> 01:25:39.110] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you know, if something looks official, then, you know, people tend to think that it is.
[01:25:39.230 --> 01:25:45.070] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, that's why you can get away with, you know, putting on construction workers' outfits and suddenly being in places you're not supposed to.
[01:25:45.170 --> 01:25:51.290] [SPEAKER_09]: It's just, if it seems like it fits, if it seems like it's supposed to be there, people don't usually think twice about it.
[01:25:51.370 --> 01:25:55.010] [SPEAKER_09]: And that's just, you know, part of our culture, I guess, that you don't look to...
[01:25:55.010 --> 01:26:04.470] [SPEAKER_09]: Why would someone go through the effort to, you know, make a fake press release or make a fake... or, you know, put on a suit and go talk at a conference when they're not supposed to be there?
[01:26:04.490 --> 01:26:05.630] [SPEAKER_09]: Why would anyone do that?
[01:26:05.730 --> 01:26:08.030] [SPEAKER_09]: And then when it happens, you know, people are somehow surprised.
[01:26:08.210 --> 01:26:08.370] [SPEAKER_10]: Yep.
[01:26:08.450 --> 01:26:12.810] [SPEAKER_10]: But, in fact, a three-foot golden phallus, like, that has to set off...
[01:26:12.810 --> 01:26:18.650] [SPEAKER_10]: Which, which, not a three-foot golden phallus, a three-foot golden phallus which is used for delivering electric shocks to your workers remotely.
[01:26:19.710 --> 01:26:22.090] [SPEAKER_16]: But it wasn't... they didn't walk into the conference like that.
[01:26:22.190 --> 01:26:25.650] [SPEAKER_16]: You put it underneath your suit and then it just all of a sudden came out on stage.
[01:26:25.890 --> 01:26:26.090] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[01:26:26.290 --> 01:26:27.630] [SPEAKER_20]: It's human nature to believe.
[01:26:28.050 --> 01:26:29.910] [SPEAKER_20]: It's not that they're stupid.
[01:26:29.930 --> 01:26:32.430] [SPEAKER_16]: But what we learn in social engineering, people want to trust you.
[01:26:32.570 --> 01:26:35.270] [SPEAKER_16]: You call somebody on the phone and say you're trying to help them.
[01:26:35.470 --> 01:26:37.310] [SPEAKER_16]: They will give you all the information.
[01:26:37.910 --> 01:26:39.570] [SPEAKER_16]: And they want to be your friend.
[01:26:39.670 --> 01:26:41.110] [SPEAKER_16]: They want to have somebody they can confide in.
[01:26:41.110 --> 01:26:41.310] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[01:26:41.470 --> 01:26:42.670] [SPEAKER_20]: We're all wired that way.
[01:26:42.930 --> 01:26:46.890] [SPEAKER_20]: It's either we want a friend or we just want to believe what's going on on the stage.
[01:26:47.070 --> 01:26:49.350] [SPEAKER_20]: That's why we can enjoy films and plays.
[01:26:49.390 --> 01:26:51.510] [SPEAKER_20]: It's a good thing we have this capacity to be fooled.
[01:26:51.730 --> 01:26:53.650] [SPEAKER_20]: We fool ourselves all the time, constantly.
[01:26:53.990 --> 01:26:56.710] [SPEAKER_20]: And I know I'm one of the most gullible people I know.
[01:26:57.270 --> 01:26:58.270] [SPEAKER_20]: I'll believe anything.
[01:26:58.270 --> 01:27:01.930] [SPEAKER_20]: You tell me something and I'll believe it at least for a while, for a second.
[01:27:02.150 --> 01:27:04.450] [SPEAKER_20]: You know, I might think about it for 30 seconds and get it.
[01:27:04.450 --> 01:27:09.550] [SPEAKER_20]: But I really enjoy believing things that aren't true.
[01:27:10.010 --> 01:27:11.590] [SPEAKER_20]: And yeah, I think it's fun.
[01:27:11.830 --> 01:27:12.070] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:27:12.150 --> 01:27:16.010] [SPEAKER_04]: And it all goes back to that point of you put on the suit, you get the haircut, and you go there.
[01:27:16.150 --> 01:27:19.610] [SPEAKER_04]: And people accept that you are who you say you are because it's all about the context.
[01:27:19.610 --> 01:27:32.190] [SPEAKER_04]: And people are just so willing to accept things in the context they're presented versus doing the little bit of extra research, the two minutes of Googling or what have you, to check the claims that are being presented.
[01:27:32.430 --> 01:27:34.010] [SPEAKER_20]: But two minutes is so long.
[01:27:34.170 --> 01:27:44.910] [SPEAKER_20]: And one thing we're forgetting here when we're talking about press releases is that this isn't because reporters are stupid, or they're not paying attention, or they're easily fooled.
[01:27:45.350 --> 01:27:47.530] [SPEAKER_20]: They actually don't have time.
[01:27:47.530 --> 01:27:57.930] [SPEAKER_20]: The market pressure in the way the press has turned so capitalist lately, it's like the bottom line is the bottom line.
[01:27:58.110 --> 01:27:59.110] [SPEAKER_20]: And they don't have time.
[01:27:59.430 --> 01:28:00.690] [SPEAKER_20]: They have to get the scoop.
[01:28:00.910 --> 01:28:02.070] [SPEAKER_20]: That's how they make their money.
[01:28:02.990 --> 01:28:10.510] [SPEAKER_08]: You mentioned the golden phallus, and we've talked about some of the other stunts and how it's integrated into a talk.
[01:28:10.610 --> 01:28:17.430] [SPEAKER_08]: Once you get the venue and you've kind of got an idea of where you want to go, can you describe a little bit of the creative process for the story?
[01:28:17.690 --> 01:28:23.050] [SPEAKER_08]: Like how you come up with the suit or this kind of gag or the golden skeleton?
[01:28:23.090 --> 01:28:25.390] [SPEAKER_08]: Because it looks like you guys have a lot of fun with it.
[01:28:25.450 --> 01:28:29.830] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm just interested in what those brainstorming sessions are like and how you develop the ideas.
[01:28:32.210 --> 01:28:33.850] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, Mike's been quiet for a while.
[01:28:33.990 --> 01:28:34.150] [SPEAKER_20]: Hello?
[01:28:34.970 --> 01:28:36.010] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[01:28:36.210 --> 01:28:39.830] [SPEAKER_14]: I just, I was, it's kind of getting late here.
[01:28:39.910 --> 01:28:41.270] [SPEAKER_14]: I might actually fall asleep.
[01:28:41.830 --> 01:28:43.430] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, it's like three in the morning.
[01:28:44.350 --> 01:28:44.830] [SPEAKER_20]: Never mind.
[01:28:45.210 --> 01:28:51.110] [SPEAKER_20]: What happens is, yeah, how do we come up with stories?
[01:28:51.270 --> 01:28:53.930] [SPEAKER_20]: How do we come up with our stupid pranks?
[01:28:54.830 --> 01:28:56.090] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[01:28:56.430 --> 01:28:58.670] [SPEAKER_14]: Usually we steal them.
[01:28:58.810 --> 01:29:03.150] [SPEAKER_14]: We, like, hack somebody's computer and look for an idea.
[01:29:03.690 --> 01:29:03.890] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[01:29:04.850 --> 01:29:05.310] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[01:29:06.170 --> 01:29:08.010] [SPEAKER_20]: That's where the skill comes in.
[01:29:08.670 --> 01:29:09.130] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[01:29:09.970 --> 01:29:12.150] [SPEAKER_20]: The funny thing is, we don't even know how to do that.
[01:29:12.770 --> 01:29:17.330] [SPEAKER_14]: We try for a security company, like Stratfor, because they're very creative, those guys.
[01:29:17.670 --> 01:29:17.950] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[01:29:18.190 --> 01:29:20.030] [SPEAKER_14]: They have some really creative ideas.
[01:29:20.570 --> 01:29:22.990] [SPEAKER_16]: I just want to step in here and urge people to call in.
[01:29:23.070 --> 01:29:24.130] [SPEAKER_16]: We're getting a couple of calls.
[01:29:24.210 --> 01:29:24.750] [SPEAKER_16]: We need some more.
[01:29:24.750 --> 01:29:26.690] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[01:29:26.690 --> 01:29:27.730] [SPEAKER_16]: The yes-men are here.
[01:29:27.950 --> 01:29:36.670] [SPEAKER_16]: They very graciously offered their two films and their newspaper, one of their newspapers, autographed for anybody who calls in and pledges $75.
[01:29:36.670 --> 01:29:46.630] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950, keeping WBAI on the radio so that we can talk about this and all kinds of other mischievous pranks that actually have social relevance.
[01:29:47.710 --> 01:29:48.690] [SPEAKER_16]: Please support us.
[01:29:48.770 --> 01:29:49.490] [SPEAKER_16]: Please keep us going.
[01:29:49.590 --> 01:29:51.130] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[01:29:51.130 --> 01:29:54.150] [SPEAKER_16]: We also have an Off The Hook archive for an additional $50.
[01:29:55.190 --> 01:29:56.810] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[01:29:56.810 --> 01:29:58.130] [SPEAKER_16]: We have three calls on the line.
[01:29:58.230 --> 01:29:59.170] [SPEAKER_16]: Let's make that seven.
[01:29:59.170 --> 01:29:59.950] [SPEAKER_16]: We can do it.
[01:30:00.030 --> 01:30:02.710] [SPEAKER_16]: There's enough people down there to support this.
[01:30:02.830 --> 01:30:05.150] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[01:30:05.150 --> 01:30:05.510] [SPEAKER_16]: Rob?
[01:30:06.310 --> 01:30:14.130] [SPEAKER_04]: I'd like to talk a bit about the whole angle of wrapping your activism up in jokes and gags and these wonderful creative things.
[01:30:14.390 --> 01:30:15.990] [SPEAKER_04]: Because we've seen that with you guys.
[01:30:16.150 --> 01:30:29.070] [SPEAKER_04]: We've seen that now with things done under the banner of Anonymous and all this other stuff where it seems even touches of it in Occupy Wall Street and things like that going on now, where the activism that really resonates is the stuff that makes you laugh,
[01:30:29.330 --> 01:30:32.150] [SPEAKER_04]: the stuff with a bit of absurdity laced into it.
[01:30:32.150 --> 01:30:39.790] [SPEAKER_04]: And what do you think it is about that versus just marching up and down the street with a sign and shouting that really sort of sticks in people's minds?
[01:30:39.790 --> 01:30:42.110] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, a couple of things.
[01:30:42.230 --> 01:30:46.550] [SPEAKER_20]: I think one reason it works is just technical.
[01:30:46.810 --> 01:30:48.970] [SPEAKER_20]: Like, journalists need something to write about.
[01:30:49.270 --> 01:30:51.770] [SPEAKER_20]: They can't just write about people walking up and down the street.
[01:30:52.130 --> 01:30:54.950] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, they can, but it's not enough.
[01:30:55.190 --> 01:30:57.530] [SPEAKER_20]: You know, their editors are asking for more.
[01:30:57.530 --> 01:31:00.130] [SPEAKER_20]: So if you give them something, well, you can give them smashed windows.
[01:31:00.130 --> 01:31:01.130] [SPEAKER_20]: They'll write about that.
[01:31:01.130 --> 01:31:03.570] [SPEAKER_20]: But people don't necessarily like that very much.
[01:31:03.670 --> 01:31:06.230] [SPEAKER_20]: It doesn't really work public relations wise so well.
[01:31:06.370 --> 01:31:12.110] [SPEAKER_20]: So if you give them something really funny and silly to write about, that might be enough.
[01:31:12.390 --> 01:31:13.850] [SPEAKER_20]: So that's one thing.
[01:31:13.930 --> 01:31:15.610] [SPEAKER_20]: And plus, people just like to laugh.
[01:31:16.010 --> 01:31:19.530] [SPEAKER_20]: And if you do funny things, people laugh at them.
[01:31:20.270 --> 01:31:21.410] [SPEAKER_20]: And then they like you.
[01:31:21.690 --> 01:31:23.530] [SPEAKER_20]: People like things that they laugh at.
[01:31:23.530 --> 01:31:29.550] [SPEAKER_20]: It cuts through a lot of the, you know, people might have mental walls up against certain things.
[01:31:29.650 --> 01:31:35.490] [SPEAKER_20]: And if you can make a really incisive joke about it, that's not at their expense, but, you know, with them.
[01:31:36.370 --> 01:31:39.510] [SPEAKER_20]: And they can see that there is a joke there.
[01:31:39.810 --> 01:31:45.170] [SPEAKER_20]: That's the beginning of kind of breaking through and convincing them there's another way to see things.
[01:31:45.790 --> 01:31:49.030] [SPEAKER_16]: Now, are you ever worried about the legal ramifications?
[01:31:49.030 --> 01:32:02.970] [SPEAKER_16]: If I was standing up on stage representing Dow Chemical, and I actually had never been inside their building, I'd be worried that they might, you know, come after me with some kind of defamation of character or impersonating somebody or anything like that.
[01:32:03.190 --> 01:32:04.390] [SPEAKER_16]: Does that ever worry you?
[01:32:04.710 --> 01:32:06.110] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, we've been worried.
[01:32:06.930 --> 01:32:07.930] [SPEAKER_20]: That's the extent of it?
[01:32:08.130 --> 01:32:08.590] [SPEAKER_20]: No, no.
[01:32:08.710 --> 01:32:09.550] [SPEAKER_20]: We start...
[01:32:09.550 --> 01:32:17.870] [SPEAKER_20]: When we first did it, the first time we decided to accept an invitation to a conference and go as the World Trade Organization, we were terrified.
[01:32:18.590 --> 01:32:25.390] [SPEAKER_20]: It was in Austria, for one thing, which has a really weird history, if you look at it 50 years ago, 60 years ago.
[01:32:27.730 --> 01:32:30.150] [SPEAKER_20]: And plus, you know, we just didn't know.
[01:32:30.430 --> 01:32:37.110] [SPEAKER_20]: We thought this was just universally a terrible crime to impersonate somebody and speak to people as somebody or not.
[01:32:37.210 --> 01:32:38.710] [SPEAKER_20]: But it turns out that it isn't.
[01:32:39.430 --> 01:32:44.350] [SPEAKER_20]: Unless they're a police officer and you're trying to arrest somebody as a police officer, that's not good.
[01:32:45.130 --> 01:32:51.930] [SPEAKER_20]: But going as a representative of a corporation or even a government agency seems to be okay.
[01:32:53.850 --> 01:32:59.950] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, as long as you're making a point with it and you have a point, it seems to be protected under at least U.S.
[01:33:00.030 --> 01:33:01.610] [SPEAKER_20]: law and apparently European law.
[01:33:01.610 --> 01:33:10.590] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, it's also because the satire is always revealed at some stage so that you're able to say, okay, this is basically what we were doing, what we were saying.
[01:33:10.670 --> 01:33:16.050] [SPEAKER_16]: But has there ever been a case where it wasn't revealed and you're still going on to this day and you've changed policy of a company?
[01:33:16.410 --> 01:33:16.810] [SPEAKER_20]: No.
[01:33:16.970 --> 01:33:17.130] [SPEAKER_20]: No?
[01:33:17.470 --> 01:33:18.550] [SPEAKER_16]: But that's the hope, right?
[01:33:18.670 --> 01:33:19.390] [SPEAKER_20]: Not really.
[01:33:19.630 --> 01:33:23.590] [SPEAKER_20]: No, I mean, our hope really isn't to change any company's policy.
[01:33:23.590 --> 01:33:25.630] [SPEAKER_20]: In fact, it's to change public opinion.
[01:33:25.850 --> 01:33:31.610] [SPEAKER_20]: It's to appeal to people to see there's this big systemic problem that we've got to change.
[01:33:31.610 --> 01:33:33.230] [SPEAKER_20]: We've got to change the rules of the game.
[01:33:34.630 --> 01:33:37.230] [SPEAKER_20]: It doesn't even matter whether the company changes.
[01:33:37.250 --> 01:33:40.270] [SPEAKER_20]: If we don't change the rules of the game, it's totally unimportant.
[01:33:42.570 --> 01:33:45.130] [SPEAKER_20]: So that's who we're really trying to appeal to.
[01:33:45.370 --> 01:33:46.870] [SPEAKER_20]: And that's why we...
[01:33:47.350 --> 01:33:52.650] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, it's in the nature of it, but these things don't remain believed for very long.
[01:33:53.110 --> 01:33:57.310] [SPEAKER_20]: It's like an hour or two, and then it's revealed, and that's what we want.
[01:33:58.890 --> 01:33:59.370] [SPEAKER_16]: Awesome.
[01:33:59.650 --> 01:34:05.610] [SPEAKER_16]: We're speaking with Andy Bickelbaum and Mike Bonanno of the Yes Men here on WBAI.
[01:34:05.710 --> 01:34:09.170] [SPEAKER_16]: Now, Mike, I know it's about, what, 1.30 in the morning over there in Scotland?
[01:34:09.890 --> 01:34:11.910] [SPEAKER_21]: 1.36, according to my clock.
[01:34:12.170 --> 01:34:12.290] [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[01:34:12.390 --> 01:34:13.330] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you're probably pretty tired.
[01:34:13.530 --> 01:34:20.150] [SPEAKER_16]: I'm giving you the option to disconnect before we go off the air at 9 o'clock, if that's what you want to do.
[01:34:20.610 --> 01:34:21.210] [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you.
[01:34:21.210 --> 01:34:21.990] [SPEAKER_14]: I appreciate that.
[01:34:22.090 --> 01:34:33.070] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it's been great talking to you, and I hope lots of people are pledging to the great radio station, WBAI, and your program, which is awesome.
[01:34:33.370 --> 01:34:37.570] [SPEAKER_14]: And I hope we come back on and see you again in the near future.
[01:34:37.570 --> 01:34:40.630] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, we're all looking forward to Hope, where you guys are going to keynote.
[01:34:41.290 --> 01:34:42.770] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, that'll be fun.
[01:34:42.970 --> 01:34:43.650] [SPEAKER_14]: That'll be fun.
[01:34:43.750 --> 01:35:01.610] [SPEAKER_14]: It's been such an amazing couple of years seeing what the sort of seeds of Hope, and I think, you know, your legacy and the legacy of so many kind of people who are engaged in the phone phreaking and hacking movement over the years.
[01:35:01.610 --> 01:35:11.430] [SPEAKER_14]: I think now, like, you know, hacking has really come into a sort of place of maturity that's really amazing and exciting.
[01:35:11.430 --> 01:35:17.870] [SPEAKER_14]: So I'm totally stoked to come to Hope and, you know, talk with people.
[01:35:18.250 --> 01:35:19.830] [SPEAKER_14]: So looking forward to it.
[01:35:20.070 --> 01:35:20.590] [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[01:35:20.850 --> 01:35:21.510] [SPEAKER_16]: See you later.
[01:35:21.870 --> 01:35:25.550] [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks so much for joining us, Mike, and good night to you over there in Scotland, and we'll see you soon.
[01:35:26.550 --> 01:35:27.270] [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[01:35:27.390 --> 01:35:28.850] [SPEAKER_16]: That was Mike Bonanno from the Yes Men.
[01:35:29.050 --> 01:35:30.970] [SPEAKER_16]: Andy Bickelman remains with us in the studio.
[01:35:31.370 --> 01:35:35.710] [SPEAKER_16]: And yes, as we mentioned, they will be keynoting at the Hope Conference.
[01:35:35.710 --> 01:35:38.550] [SPEAKER_16]: More information on that, www.hope.net.
[01:35:39.150 --> 01:35:49.310] [SPEAKER_16]: For now, though, we still have the Yes Men package of a couple of DVDs and newspaper autograph for a pledge of $75, 212-209-2950.
[01:35:49.910 --> 01:36:00.390] [SPEAKER_16]: We also have the Off The Hook archive for an additional $50, and we also have the Hackerspace package, which we mentioned earlier for $75, 212-209-2950.
[01:36:00.410 --> 01:36:02.870] [SPEAKER_16]: These Yes Men premiums are amazing.
[01:36:03.030 --> 01:36:03.810] [SPEAKER_16]: They're flying off the shelves.
[01:36:03.810 --> 01:36:07.450] [SPEAKER_16]: I see calls coming in, and again, we only have this available until 9 o'clock.
[01:36:07.450 --> 01:36:09.410] [SPEAKER_16]: We absolutely cannot offer it beyond that.
[01:36:09.530 --> 01:36:11.130] [SPEAKER_16]: It just gets a little crazy.
[01:36:11.670 --> 01:36:12.910] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[01:36:13.490 --> 01:36:15.070] [SPEAKER_16]: I believe we have people to thank.
[01:36:15.510 --> 01:36:16.630] [SPEAKER_16]: Who wants to start?
[01:36:16.770 --> 01:36:16.950] [SPEAKER_16]: Mike?
[01:36:17.110 --> 01:36:20.710] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, we want to thank Jacqueline, who's from New Brunswick, New Jersey.
[01:36:21.250 --> 01:36:21.870] [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you, Jacqueline.
[01:36:22.370 --> 01:36:24.950] [SPEAKER_06]: And Jacob from Chatham, New Jersey.
[01:36:25.410 --> 01:36:27.510] [SPEAKER_06]: We'd like to thank Michael from Darien, Connecticut.
[01:36:28.770 --> 01:36:33.590] [SPEAKER_09]: Janet from White Plains, New York, and Abby from Brooklyn, New York.
[01:36:34.670 --> 01:36:38.670] [SPEAKER_08]: And we also want to thank Pamela from Danbury, Connecticut?
[01:36:39.030 --> 01:36:39.390] [SPEAKER_08]: Danbury.
[01:36:39.730 --> 01:36:39.770] [SPEAKER_08]: Danbury.
[01:36:40.050 --> 01:36:40.170] [SPEAKER_08]: Danbury.
[01:36:40.350 --> 01:36:43.750] [SPEAKER_10]: And we want to thank Scott from Azusa, California.
[01:36:44.410 --> 01:36:44.730] [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[01:36:44.830 --> 01:36:50.990] [SPEAKER_16]: I want to thank the people who are calling in right now, but please keep those calls coming because your calls are what make the difference.
[01:36:51.170 --> 01:36:52.670] [SPEAKER_16]: That's why we're on the air right now.
[01:36:52.730 --> 01:36:53.670] [SPEAKER_16]: That's why we're talking about this.
[01:36:53.690 --> 01:36:56.790] [SPEAKER_16]: That's why we're able to spread all this around.
[01:36:57.110 --> 01:36:58.590] [SPEAKER_16]: You know, communications are just so important.
[01:36:58.590 --> 01:37:00.850] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[01:37:01.230 --> 01:37:11.090] [SPEAKER_06]: And I'd also just like to thank everyone who has called, whether you asked to be spoken of and we didn't get a chance to read about you, or if you wanted to keep private.
[01:37:11.270 --> 01:37:16.070] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, even if we're not saying your name, we are thankful for every single call that we get.
[01:37:16.470 --> 01:37:16.890] [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[01:37:16.890 --> 01:37:19.470] [SPEAKER_16]: I'd like to play one more clip.
[01:37:19.710 --> 01:37:22.550] [SPEAKER_16]: And this is something that actually isn't in the film.
[01:37:22.690 --> 01:37:26.570] [SPEAKER_16]: It's an intro to the film, The S-Men Fix the World, that's online.
[01:37:27.330 --> 01:37:32.830] [SPEAKER_16]: It's more or less kind of a campaign involving an organization known as the U.S.
[01:37:33.250 --> 01:37:33.930] [SPEAKER_16]: Chamber of Commerce.
[01:37:34.390 --> 01:37:38.570] [SPEAKER_16]: And I think I'd just like for it to speak for itself, and we can discuss it in just a little bit.
[01:37:38.630 --> 01:37:41.990] [SPEAKER_16]: But there is a good example here of what happens when you get caught.
[01:37:41.990 --> 01:37:44.890] [SPEAKER_16]: And that does happen sometimes, right, Andy?
[01:37:45.110 --> 01:37:46.090] [SPEAKER_16]: It does happen.
[01:37:46.230 --> 01:37:46.450] [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[01:37:46.870 --> 01:37:48.910] [SPEAKER_16]: And how you deal with that.
[01:37:48.910 --> 01:37:57.330] [SPEAKER_16]: And we talk about this when we're dealing with social engineering quite a bit, having graceful ways out of things and just humorous ways out of things.
[01:37:57.470 --> 01:38:03.770] [SPEAKER_16]: So let's listen to this intro to The S-Men Fix the World, which you can get a copy of.
[01:38:03.850 --> 01:38:05.430] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[01:38:05.430 --> 01:38:06.290] [SPEAKER_16]: Pledge is $75.
[01:38:06.690 --> 01:38:09.510] [SPEAKER_16]: That and one other film, plus the fake newspaper.
[01:38:09.510 --> 01:38:10.470] [SPEAKER_16]: All autographed.
[01:38:10.570 --> 01:38:12.510] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[01:38:12.750 --> 01:38:13.150] [SPEAKER_16]: Let's listen.
[01:38:15.990 --> 01:38:22.370] [SPEAKER_13]: Back in September, we were working with a bunch of climate change activists to plan an event in Washington, D.C.
[01:38:23.470 --> 01:38:29.470] [SPEAKER_13]: We wanted to make a political point about an organization that's pulling off some of the world's biggest hoaxes.
[01:38:30.730 --> 01:38:32.690] [SPEAKER_13]: No, not this organization.
[01:38:33.330 --> 01:38:34.890] [SPEAKER_13]: The one across the street.
[01:38:35.130 --> 01:38:36.850] [SPEAKER_13]: The one that looks like a U.S.
[01:38:36.930 --> 01:38:40.350] [SPEAKER_13]: government office, but really is working against the government.
[01:38:41.710 --> 01:38:43.750] [SPEAKER_13]: In reality, the U.S.
[01:38:44.130 --> 01:38:50.410] [SPEAKER_13]: Chamber of Commerce is a large corporation that is reported to lie to the public on behalf of even bigger corporations.
[01:38:50.410 --> 01:38:55.430] [SPEAKER_13]: They spend nearly half a million dollars a day trying to convince the U.S.
[01:38:55.590 --> 01:39:01.950] [SPEAKER_13]: government to do really stupid shit, like killing environmental regulations and undermining workers' rights.
[01:39:02.790 --> 01:39:07.870] [SPEAKER_13]: But since they spend so much money on their hoaxes, many people believe them.
[01:39:08.770 --> 01:39:20.490] [SPEAKER_13]: And as it says, American Free Enterprise dream big, but their dreams are our nightmares, because their plans are to prevent us from passing climate change legislation, which means we're screwed.
[01:39:23.330 --> 01:39:30.250] [SPEAKER_13]: Since the Chamber was hoaxing us all, and threatening our survival, we decided to fight fire with fire.
[01:39:30.890 --> 01:39:35.850] [SPEAKER_13]: We would reveal one of their biggest lies by masquerading as them.
[01:39:36.890 --> 01:39:41.390] [SPEAKER_13]: We would hold a press conference as the Chamber at the National Press Club.
[01:39:41.570 --> 01:39:45.070] [SPEAKER_13]: But first, we sent out a parody press release from them.
[01:39:45.410 --> 01:39:49.130] [SPEAKER_13]: It was sort of like their normal ones, except ours was sane.
[01:39:49.130 --> 01:39:55.190] [SPEAKER_13]: How would the world react to the Chamber suddenly reversing its position on climate change?
[01:39:57.270 --> 01:39:59.970] [SPEAKER_23]: A reversal on climate change from the U.S.
[01:40:00.330 --> 01:40:00.890] [SPEAKER_23]: Chamber of Commerce.
[01:40:01.050 --> 01:40:09.750] [SPEAKER_23]: It will reverse its position on the climate change bill and once a carbon tax, if you will.
[01:40:11.810 --> 01:40:13.510] [SPEAKER_23]: All right, so the U.S.
[01:40:13.770 --> 01:40:14.510] [SPEAKER_23]: Chamber is denying it now.
[01:40:16.650 --> 01:40:19.590] [SPEAKER_23]: All right, so maybe not.
[01:40:20.690 --> 01:40:21.830] [SPEAKER_23]: Apparently it was a hoax.
[01:40:22.030 --> 01:40:24.810] [SPEAKER_23]: Either there is a group or some people or a person.
[01:40:25.030 --> 01:40:29.010] [SPEAKER_23]: Is there any involvement of the White House whatsoever?
[01:40:29.830 --> 01:40:32.870] [SPEAKER_23]: I couldn't even begin to go there, Larry, on that one.
[01:40:33.070 --> 01:40:37.970] [SPEAKER_01]: Today, the country's largest business lobby, the Chamber of Commerce, got punked.
[01:40:37.970 --> 01:40:43.250] [SPEAKER_01]: It began early this morning when a press release went out purportedly from the United States Chamber of Commerce.
[01:40:43.730 --> 01:40:49.670] [SPEAKER_01]: Amazingly, the release said that the Chamber would now support this legislation that it spent months fighting against.
[01:40:50.050 --> 01:40:54.030] [SPEAKER_01]: Reporters were surprised and probably confused at this odd turn of events.
[01:40:54.170 --> 01:41:00.510] [SPEAKER_01]: But that was nothing compared to what actually happened at the press conference when it was held later on this morning.
[01:41:00.710 --> 01:41:01.250] [SPEAKER_01]: Watch this tape.
[01:41:02.130 --> 01:41:09.450] [SPEAKER_20]: Clean coal is a technology that has not only not been proven, it basically doesn't exist.
[01:41:09.710 --> 01:41:11.750] [SPEAKER_31]: Okay, this is... I'm Eric Wollschlegel.
[01:41:11.870 --> 01:41:12.450] [SPEAKER_31]: I'm with the U.S.
[01:41:12.750 --> 01:41:13.410] [SPEAKER_31]: Chamber of Commerce.
[01:41:14.150 --> 01:41:16.250] [SPEAKER_31]: This is not an official U.S.
[01:41:16.590 --> 01:41:17.570] [SPEAKER_31]: Chamber of Commerce event.
[01:41:18.910 --> 01:41:21.750] [SPEAKER_31]: So, I don't know what pretences you're here.
[01:41:22.410 --> 01:41:24.890] [SPEAKER_31]: I know some of you in the press world.
[01:41:25.250 --> 01:41:29.110] [SPEAKER_31]: But this is a fraudulent press activity and a stunt.
[01:41:29.530 --> 01:41:30.890] [SPEAKER_20]: Who are you really, sir?
[01:41:32.010 --> 01:41:33.190] [SPEAKER_31]: And do you have a business card?
[01:41:33.450 --> 01:41:34.090] [SPEAKER_31]: Are you with the U.S.
[01:41:34.350 --> 01:41:34.350] Chamber?
[01:41:34.550 --> 01:41:35.170] [SPEAKER_19]: I do.
[01:41:35.810 --> 01:41:37.190] [SPEAKER_19]: We can discuss afterwards.
[01:41:37.670 --> 01:41:38.030] [SPEAKER_31]: Okay.
[01:41:38.710 --> 01:41:39.750] [SPEAKER_31]: Can I see your business card?
[01:41:39.950 --> 01:41:40.570] [SPEAKER_19]: Can I see yours?
[01:41:40.690 --> 01:41:42.090] [SPEAKER_31]: Are you here representing the U.S.
[01:41:42.130 --> 01:41:42.710] [SPEAKER_31]: Chamber of Commerce?
[01:41:42.810 --> 01:41:43.370] [SPEAKER_31]: Yes, I am.
[01:41:43.590 --> 01:41:45.950] [SPEAKER_31]: Okay, well, I worked there and you did not look familiar to me at all.
[01:41:47.090 --> 01:41:48.450] [SPEAKER_19]: Could I see your business card?
[01:41:48.890 --> 01:41:50.190] [SPEAKER_19]: Could I see your business card?
[01:41:50.650 --> 01:41:51.950] [SPEAKER_23]: Are you interrupting the press conference?
[01:41:52.090 --> 01:41:52.870] [SPEAKER_31]: Yes, I am.
[01:41:53.470 --> 01:41:55.230] [SPEAKER_31]: This guy does not represent the U.S.
[01:41:55.470 --> 01:41:55.970] [SPEAKER_31]: Chamber of Commerce.
[01:41:56.070 --> 01:41:57.050] [SPEAKER_31]: Can we finish the interreddit?
[01:41:57.050 --> 01:41:59.570] [SPEAKER_31]: No, this is not an official Chamber of Commerce.
[01:41:59.930 --> 01:42:03.730] [SPEAKER_31]: This is not... What is your position at the Chamber of Commerce?
[01:42:03.910 --> 01:42:05.190] [SPEAKER_20]: I just spoke my position.
[01:42:05.470 --> 01:42:09.450] [SPEAKER_31]: What is your title, your official title at the U.S.
[01:42:09.470 --> 01:42:09.590] [SPEAKER_31]: Chamber of Commerce?
[01:42:09.590 --> 01:42:11.290] [SPEAKER_19]: I'm the assistant to Mr. Donahue.
[01:42:11.670 --> 01:42:11.930] [SPEAKER_31]: Okay.
[01:42:12.370 --> 01:42:13.510] [SPEAKER_31]: This guy is a fraud.
[01:42:13.510 --> 01:42:14.310] [SPEAKER_31]: He's lying.
[01:42:15.070 --> 01:42:17.590] [SPEAKER_31]: This is, you know, a stunt that I've never seen before.
[01:42:17.870 --> 01:42:22.790] [SPEAKER_31]: So if you'd like to actually talk to the legitimate Chamber of Commerce, I've got my business cards outside.
[01:42:23.070 --> 01:42:26.290] [SPEAKER_31]: This gentleman, I will assure you, does not have any business cards and he's not legitimate.
[01:42:26.290 --> 01:42:27.690] [SPEAKER_00]: Show me your business card.
[01:42:27.770 --> 01:42:28.390] [SPEAKER_00]: No, show me yours.
[01:42:28.530 --> 01:42:29.050] [SPEAKER_00]: No, show me yours.
[01:42:29.190 --> 01:42:30.770] [SPEAKER_18]: They both look like imposters.
[01:42:31.530 --> 01:42:31.710] [SPEAKER_22]: What?
[01:42:32.390 --> 01:42:33.110] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have a business card?
[01:42:33.330 --> 01:42:34.350] [SPEAKER_22]: It's so weird, though.
[01:42:34.350 --> 01:42:35.170] [SPEAKER_23]: Because you don't look familiar.
[01:42:35.210 --> 01:42:35.670] [SPEAKER_23]: The U.S.
[01:42:36.030 --> 01:42:38.310] [SPEAKER_23]: Chamber of Commerce says it was victimized.
[01:42:38.370 --> 01:42:40.890] [SPEAKER_23]: Victims of a hoax by environmental activists.
[01:42:41.070 --> 01:42:45.850] [SPEAKER_23]: They said public relations hoaxes undermine the genuine effort to find solutions on the challenge of climate change.
[01:42:45.930 --> 01:42:51.690] [SPEAKER_27]: A hoax actually led to the Chamber admitting that there is a challenge for climate change.
[01:42:51.690 --> 01:42:52.710] [SPEAKER_27]: It seems like a good first step.
[01:42:52.710 --> 01:42:55.970] [SPEAKER_27]: So next up hoax is about poverty, violence, hunger.
[01:42:56.130 --> 01:42:56.290] [SPEAKER_27]: Education.
[01:42:56.610 --> 01:42:57.050] [SPEAKER_27]: Education.
[01:42:57.210 --> 01:42:58.110] [SPEAKER_27]: It's a good first step.
[01:42:58.110 --> 01:42:58.410] [SPEAKER_27]: The big education hoax.
[01:42:58.470 --> 01:42:59.770] [SPEAKER_27]: We've got a big education hoax in this country.
[01:42:59.770 --> 01:43:00.530] [SPEAKER_27]: The hoax is a good first step.
[01:43:00.570 --> 01:43:00.650] [SPEAKER_27]: Yeah.
[01:43:00.930 --> 01:43:02.490] [SPEAKER_13]: So that's the story, folks.
[01:43:03.010 --> 01:43:03.890] [SPEAKER_13]: Not entirely.
[01:43:04.270 --> 01:43:08.010] [SPEAKER_13]: Then they decided to use this opportunity to raise funds.
[01:43:08.010 --> 01:43:10.310] [SPEAKER_13]: They put out Google Ads.
[01:43:10.550 --> 01:43:14.550] [SPEAKER_20]: You'd click on that and it would take you to a page from the U.S.
[01:43:14.830 --> 01:43:20.410] [SPEAKER_20]: Chamber of Commerce asking you to give them $250 to help defend themselves against us.
[01:43:20.630 --> 01:43:21.850] [SPEAKER_13]: It gets even funnier.
[01:43:22.110 --> 01:43:29.850] [SPEAKER_13]: They not only used this opportunity to fundraise, but then they decided to sue us.
[01:43:31.110 --> 01:43:35.390] [SPEAKER_20]: And, by the way, we're being defended by some of the best lawyers in the world.
[01:43:35.390 --> 01:43:37.930] [SPEAKER_20]: We're being defended by the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
[01:43:37.930 --> 01:43:40.630] [SPEAKER_20]: Go to EFF.org to check them out.
[01:43:40.630 --> 01:43:42.070] [SPEAKER_20]: Wait, wait.
[01:43:42.410 --> 01:43:43.490] [SPEAKER_20]: There's another punchline.
[01:43:43.730 --> 01:43:45.890] [SPEAKER_20]: Not only did Fox pick up our release.
[01:43:46.110 --> 01:43:49.930] [SPEAKER_20]: Not only did Volschlegel come and interrupt our press conference.
[01:43:50.210 --> 01:43:54.970] [SPEAKER_20]: Not only did the Chamber of Commerce try to raise funds off this event.
[01:43:55.190 --> 01:43:56.810] [SPEAKER_20]: And not only did...
[01:43:56.810 --> 01:43:57.730] [SPEAKER_20]: They sue us.
[01:43:57.870 --> 01:43:59.530] [SPEAKER_20]: Not only did they sue us.
[01:43:59.710 --> 01:44:04.230] [SPEAKER_20]: But they actually changed their policy two weeks later.
[01:44:04.530 --> 01:44:13.650] [SPEAKER_00]: Just today, the Chamber of Commerce changed positions, not courtesy of the Yes Men with that stunt in Washington a few weeks ago.
[01:44:13.870 --> 01:44:23.090] [SPEAKER_00]: But they're now saying, surprisingly to me, and I'm glad about it, that they want to get legislation, and they're now working with the sponsors of the bill.
[01:44:25.730 --> 01:44:32.030] [SPEAKER_20]: Gore saying it didn't happen because of the Yes Men is kind of the highest compliment we've ever been paid, I think.
[01:44:32.150 --> 01:44:40.250] [SPEAKER_13]: So, if you're interested in people maintaining their freedom of speech, eff.org is a very good organization to support.
[01:44:40.550 --> 01:44:48.810] [SPEAKER_13]: And also, if you're interested in basically more mayhem of this sort, please do go and see theyesmen.org slash lab.
[01:44:49.150 --> 01:44:53.270] [SPEAKER_13]: That is theyesmen.org slash lab, where you can find out about the Yes Lab.
[01:44:53.450 --> 01:44:57.450] [SPEAKER_13]: The Yes Lab is a thing we've launched to try to make this happen a lot more.
[01:44:57.450 --> 01:45:05.550] [SPEAKER_13]: to pass this film around to other people, because the US Chamber of Commerce wants people not to see it.
[01:45:05.950 --> 01:45:06.050] [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[01:45:06.210 --> 01:45:08.070] [SPEAKER_13]: That's reason enough as far as we're concerned.
[01:45:08.450 --> 01:45:15.310] [SPEAKER_24]: The Chamber of Commerce needs the support of every American who gives a damn about free markets, private property, and fears creeping fascism.
[01:45:16.690 --> 01:45:23.810] [SPEAKER_24]: This country cannot afford for the insurance industry to cave, this country cannot afford for the Chamber of Commerce to cave.
[01:45:24.030 --> 01:45:29.930] [SPEAKER_24]: The Chamber of Commerce has been screwed, screwed, screwed, screwed, screwed, Oh, brilliant.
[01:45:30.310 --> 01:45:32.270] [SPEAKER_16]: I can't believe Rush Limbaugh is on our airwaves.
[01:45:33.630 --> 01:45:34.930] [SPEAKER_16]: So the U.S.
[01:45:35.090 --> 01:45:41.270] [SPEAKER_16]: Chamber of Commerce may not want you to see this movie, but you can simply by calling 212-209-2950, pledging $75.
[01:45:41.750 --> 01:45:44.770] [SPEAKER_16]: You'll get the Yes Men, Fix the World.
[01:45:44.890 --> 01:45:48.990] [SPEAKER_16]: You'll get the first Yes Men movie, and you'll get one of their fake newspapers all autographed.
[01:45:49.110 --> 01:45:53.850] [SPEAKER_16]: Pledges $75, 212-209-2950, but only for about another 10 minutes or so.
[01:45:54.090 --> 01:45:56.370] [SPEAKER_16]: And then we are no longer offering that deal.
[01:45:56.530 --> 01:45:58.850] [SPEAKER_16]: 212-209-2950.
[01:45:59.090 --> 01:46:01.950] [SPEAKER_16]: Andy from the Yes Men is here with us right now in the studio.
[01:46:02.650 --> 01:46:04.970] [SPEAKER_16]: And I never heard of the U.S.
[01:46:05.230 --> 01:46:05.890] [SPEAKER_16]: Chamber of Commerce before.
[01:46:06.070 --> 01:46:08.530] [SPEAKER_16]: I have no idea who these people are, but they sound scary.
[01:46:09.010 --> 01:46:10.530] [SPEAKER_16]: Are they still after you?
[01:46:10.610 --> 01:46:12.830] [SPEAKER_16]: Are they still telling people not to see the film?
[01:46:14.010 --> 01:46:14.710] [SPEAKER_20]: No idea.
[01:46:14.850 --> 01:46:16.770] [SPEAKER_20]: We haven't heard from them in about two years.
[01:46:17.730 --> 01:46:22.450] [SPEAKER_20]: They sued us and then promptly disappeared, which seems kind of rude.
[01:46:23.290 --> 01:46:25.890] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, usually they stick around for one thing or another.
[01:46:25.950 --> 01:46:30.070] [SPEAKER_16]: But they were just bent out of shape because you impersonated them and showed that in the movie?
[01:46:30.230 --> 01:46:31.030] [SPEAKER_16]: They didn't like that?
[01:46:31.030 --> 01:46:32.250] [SPEAKER_16]: No, it's not in the movie.
[01:46:32.670 --> 01:46:32.850] [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[01:46:33.030 --> 01:46:34.210] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, no, it's just there.
[01:46:34.830 --> 01:46:35.110] [SPEAKER_20]: Really?
[01:46:35.270 --> 01:46:37.750] [SPEAKER_20]: But no, they sued us because I think they were hurt.
[01:46:38.010 --> 01:46:38.990] [SPEAKER_20]: It was personal.
[01:46:39.110 --> 01:46:39.910] [SPEAKER_20]: Obviously, it was personal.
[01:46:39.990 --> 01:46:40.630] [SPEAKER_20]: You heard that guy.
[01:46:40.830 --> 01:46:41.010] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[01:46:41.130 --> 01:46:43.230] [SPEAKER_20]: He had a lot of hurt in his voice.
[01:46:43.350 --> 01:46:43.570] [SPEAKER_20]: It sounded that way.
[01:46:43.570 --> 01:46:44.450] [SPEAKER_20]: And I think they're angry.
[01:46:44.650 --> 01:46:45.370] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, they're angry.
[01:46:45.450 --> 01:46:45.970] [SPEAKER_20]: Very interesting.
[01:46:46.070 --> 01:46:46.370] [SPEAKER_20]: That's okay.
[01:46:46.510 --> 01:46:50.210] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, they're actually involved in all sorts of distasteful things.
[01:46:50.350 --> 01:46:55.970] [SPEAKER_06]: They actually were very much a part of the whole SOPA thing that was going on a while back.
[01:46:55.970 --> 01:46:56.730] [SPEAKER_16]: So not surprised.
[01:46:56.730 --> 01:47:02.810] [SPEAKER_16]: And I also find it amazing that we keep hooking up with the same basic good guys and bad guys.
[01:47:03.290 --> 01:47:06.790] [SPEAKER_16]: You know, MPAA on one side, Electronic Frontier Foundation on the other.
[01:47:07.030 --> 01:47:08.770] [SPEAKER_16]: And of course, they're helping you guys out.
[01:47:08.910 --> 01:47:10.570] [SPEAKER_16]: And we just keep like meeting each other.
[01:47:10.710 --> 01:47:16.210] [SPEAKER_16]: It's like some crazy adventure where we just keep reuniting at some point.
[01:47:16.330 --> 01:47:20.510] [SPEAKER_06]: It's like dodgeball where you have one people on one side of the line, another group of people on the other side of the line.
[01:47:20.590 --> 01:47:21.550] [SPEAKER_06]: It's just the same people.
[01:47:21.770 --> 01:47:23.550] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, but one side has a ball and one side doesn't.
[01:47:24.050 --> 01:47:26.490] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, we don't talk about these things.
[01:47:26.790 --> 01:47:31.150] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, it's interesting, too, because they themselves are in a way sort of impersonating...
[01:47:31.150 --> 01:47:33.390] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, they sound like a government organization.
[01:47:33.390 --> 01:47:34.630] [SPEAKER_09]: When you hear the name U.S.
[01:47:34.950 --> 01:47:40.130] [SPEAKER_09]: Chamber of Commerce, you think, you know, a chamber, that's usually something that occurs in, say, the Senate or the...
[01:47:40.130 --> 01:47:43.470] [SPEAKER_09]: So in a way, they're almost imposters themselves.
[01:47:44.210 --> 01:47:46.390] [SPEAKER_09]: So, you know, I didn't realize...
[01:47:46.390 --> 01:47:49.390] [SPEAKER_09]: Myself, personally, I didn't realize it was a lobbyist group.
[01:47:49.410 --> 01:47:52.270] [SPEAKER_09]: I always just thought of it as some other branch of the government.
[01:47:52.270 --> 01:47:56.270] [SPEAKER_16]: Well, let me just say right now that I still think it's possible that Mike and Andy are...
[01:47:56.270 --> 01:48:03.510] [SPEAKER_16]: This is an elaborate hoax, that they don't actually exist, and that they're suing them as part of the hoax, and that, you know, one day, a few years from now, we'll find that out.
[01:48:03.630 --> 01:48:05.030] [SPEAKER_16]: Because it just seems kind of absurd.
[01:48:05.390 --> 01:48:05.670] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[01:48:05.750 --> 01:48:06.230] [SPEAKER_16]: Who are the U.S.
[01:48:06.510 --> 01:48:06.830] [SPEAKER_16]: Chamber of Commerce?
[01:48:06.890 --> 01:48:07.090] [SPEAKER_16]: Really?
[01:48:07.190 --> 01:48:08.050] [SPEAKER_16]: We need these people?
[01:48:08.250 --> 01:48:08.370] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:48:08.370 --> 01:48:09.590] [SPEAKER_16]: It just seems so evil.
[01:48:09.990 --> 01:48:16.730] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, I don't know much about their history, but I know that now they do have a budget of about $450,000 a day.
[01:48:16.730 --> 01:48:21.910] [SPEAKER_16]: I was going to say, that seems rather low for something so evil, but per day, okay.
[01:48:22.310 --> 01:48:22.590] [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, a day.
[01:48:23.410 --> 01:48:24.230] [SPEAKER_20]: What do they do?
[01:48:24.370 --> 01:48:25.270] [SPEAKER_20]: They lie to the government.
[01:48:25.550 --> 01:48:26.530] [SPEAKER_20]: They produce...
[01:48:26.530 --> 01:48:28.110] [SPEAKER_10]: But the government can lie all by itself.
[01:48:28.310 --> 01:48:32.070] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, yeah, but it helps if you get a lot of people lying at it.
[01:48:32.210 --> 01:48:35.910] [SPEAKER_20]: You know, all those senators and congressmen, they need something to do.
[01:48:36.870 --> 01:48:38.270] [SPEAKER_16]: How did that one work?
[01:48:38.330 --> 01:48:40.690] [SPEAKER_16]: How did you get to host the U.S.
[01:48:40.910 --> 01:48:42.070] [SPEAKER_16]: Chamber of Commerce talk?
[01:48:42.070 --> 01:48:50.070] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, we worked with a lot of really smart people, the Avaz Climate Action, sorry, Action Factory people.
[01:48:50.930 --> 01:49:04.370] [SPEAKER_20]: They were in D.C., a group of them wanting to go after the chamber because they knew, unlike us, that the chamber was this really nasty business lobby that was fighting climate legislation at the time.
[01:49:04.490 --> 01:49:06.550] [SPEAKER_20]: And as you mentioned, they fought everything else.
[01:49:06.550 --> 01:49:14.650] [SPEAKER_20]: They fight against labor rights, against health care, against anything that cuts into corporate interests, because that's their clients, is big corporations.
[01:49:15.450 --> 01:49:24.450] [SPEAKER_20]: So they had this idea to host a press conference as the Chamber of Commerce and announced that we were going to do the right thing, that we were actually going to not...
[01:49:24.450 --> 01:49:33.710] [SPEAKER_20]: We were going to stop fighting this lame climate legislation, and instead we were going to make this lame climate legislation stronger and actually do something.
[01:49:33.710 --> 01:49:35.910] [SPEAKER_20]: This was the Waxman-Markey bill in the house.
[01:49:36.170 --> 01:49:38.150] [SPEAKER_20]: And so we did that.
[01:49:39.850 --> 01:49:50.450] [SPEAKER_20]: Together we rented a space at the National Press Club, sent out a press advisory, got some journalists there, and made this announcement.
[01:49:51.170 --> 01:49:55.170] [SPEAKER_20]: So it wasn't that complicated.
[01:49:55.170 --> 01:49:57.950] [SPEAKER_20]: It was just actually doing it.
[01:49:57.950 --> 01:49:59.870] [SPEAKER_16]: And who invited the guy from the real U.S.
[01:50:00.090 --> 01:50:00.510] [SPEAKER_16]: Chamber of Commerce?
[01:50:00.710 --> 01:50:02.710] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, that was a funny, funny error.
[01:50:03.350 --> 01:50:11.090] [SPEAKER_20]: Our press advisory said Chamber of Commerce is having a press conference at the National Press Club, which is odd.
[01:50:11.270 --> 01:50:16.070] [SPEAKER_20]: But, you know, the National Press Club is the premier place to have press conferences, but it's not where the U.S.
[01:50:16.270 --> 01:50:17.550] [SPEAKER_20]: Chamber of Commerce would normally have it.
[01:50:17.610 --> 01:50:21.450] [SPEAKER_20]: They would usually have it in their palatial building that has plenty of press rooms.
[01:50:21.550 --> 01:50:23.570] [SPEAKER_20]: They don't need to rent one at the press club.
[01:50:23.570 --> 01:50:30.410] [SPEAKER_20]: So this reporter didn't even read that it was at the National Press Club, just went straight to the Chamber of Commerce, showed up and said, where's the press conference?
[01:50:30.550 --> 01:50:31.170] [SPEAKER_20]: And they said, what?
[01:50:31.730 --> 01:50:38.610] [SPEAKER_20]: And got in a taxi and right at the end of our talk and answering some questions, barged in.
[01:50:38.650 --> 01:50:39.350] [SPEAKER_20]: It was just perfect.
[01:50:39.510 --> 01:50:47.550] [SPEAKER_09]: It sounded also like some of the reporters were defending you in terms of trying to get the actual representative to go away or...
[01:50:47.550 --> 01:50:49.210] [SPEAKER_16]: Were those reporters or were those cohorts?
[01:50:49.310 --> 01:50:49.990] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, yeah.
[01:50:50.110 --> 01:50:51.910] [SPEAKER_20]: Some of those reporters were not reporters.
[01:50:51.910 --> 01:50:52.450] [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[01:50:53.210 --> 01:50:54.790] [SPEAKER_20]: How many actual reporters showed up?
[01:50:54.910 --> 01:50:55.390] [SPEAKER_20]: There were some.
[01:50:55.530 --> 01:50:56.970] [SPEAKER_20]: There were about half of them were reporters.
[01:50:57.150 --> 01:51:00.090] [SPEAKER_20]: So maybe about five or six of the... I don't know.
[01:51:00.290 --> 01:51:06.170] [SPEAKER_20]: Maybe there were 15 total reporters, in quotes, of which maybe, I don't know, half were real.
[01:51:06.370 --> 01:51:06.590] [SPEAKER_20]: Uh-huh.
[01:51:06.790 --> 01:51:16.790] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, this whole kind of scenario that played out at the end of the press conference might actually fit into the whole charade that they're trying to create, that they're impersonating someone.
[01:51:16.790 --> 01:51:30.370] [SPEAKER_06]: Because how many times have you seen various news clips and so on, activists jump in a press conference and try to, like, cause a ruckus for whoever's speaking on behalf of whatever large organization.
[01:51:30.450 --> 01:51:37.250] [SPEAKER_06]: So if someone comes and starts trying to say, hey, hey, hey, other people are going to want to give, you know, the person up on the podium a chance.
[01:51:37.390 --> 01:51:38.410] [SPEAKER_06]: He is, after all, on the podium.
[01:51:38.410 --> 01:51:43.730] [SPEAKER_09]: Although, usually the activist isn't going there trying to keep the current position of that group.
[01:51:44.030 --> 01:51:44.370] [SPEAKER_09]: It's true.
[01:51:45.990 --> 01:51:50.230] [SPEAKER_16]: Now, what happened afterwards when you guys met outside in the hallway?
[01:51:50.470 --> 01:51:51.770] [SPEAKER_16]: Were there any kind of...
[01:51:51.770 --> 01:51:53.310] [SPEAKER_20]: He had gone by then.
[01:51:53.410 --> 01:51:54.190] [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, he didn't stick around.
[01:51:54.370 --> 01:51:57.450] [SPEAKER_20]: No, but it was just tremendous that he showed up.
[01:51:57.570 --> 01:51:59.970] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, we did not plan that, and we should have.
[01:52:00.290 --> 01:52:03.210] [SPEAKER_20]: We should, like, if we ever do it again, we'll definitely plan it.
[01:52:03.310 --> 01:52:08.290] [SPEAKER_20]: We'll tip off the target and we'll, you know, we'll leak it to them that it's happening so they show up.
[01:52:08.410 --> 01:52:09.410] [SPEAKER_20]: Because that was gold.
[01:52:09.650 --> 01:52:13.930] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, if we hadn't had that, we maybe would have gotten a day of press.
[01:52:14.090 --> 01:52:18.510] [SPEAKER_20]: You know, there would have been definitely a ton of print and some TV.
[01:52:18.730 --> 01:52:32.470] [SPEAKER_20]: But because of that and the amazing footage that we got, which we immediately shared with the networks, we got an extra day and a half of, like, really mainstream, you know, NBC, CNN, not Fox, covering it.
[01:52:32.550 --> 01:52:33.770] [SPEAKER_20]: And then they changed their position?
[01:52:34.110 --> 01:52:36.630] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, they actually did change their position two weeks later.
[01:52:36.630 --> 01:52:40.650] [SPEAKER_20]: And that was Al Gore on the Charlie Rose Show talking about that.
[01:52:40.690 --> 01:52:43.630] [SPEAKER_20]: And I don't think it was because of the yes-men and our stunt.
[01:52:44.090 --> 01:52:50.430] [SPEAKER_20]: It was because of the hard work of a lot of activists just making it untenable.
[01:52:50.770 --> 01:52:54.250] [SPEAKER_20]: Also, we hopped on this issue right in midstream.
[01:52:54.390 --> 01:52:56.330] [SPEAKER_20]: There was a lot of pressure on the chamber.
[01:52:56.610 --> 01:53:03.590] [SPEAKER_20]: Even some of its members, even some of the big companies in its membership had left the chamber over its opposition to climate legislation.
[01:53:03.590 --> 01:53:08.590] [SPEAKER_20]: And there were activist groups galore, making it really ugly for them.
[01:53:08.950 --> 01:53:09.350] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[01:53:09.450 --> 01:53:10.970] [SPEAKER_04]: We don't have a lot of time left.
[01:53:11.090 --> 01:53:16.070] [SPEAKER_04]: But if I could ask really quick, what is your feeling on the future of yes-men stunts?
[01:53:16.230 --> 01:53:27.650] [SPEAKER_04]: Because do you ever worry that, like, with film posters and films and everything, that things will get so big that people will just decide one day that, you know, if something's this goofy, it must be the yes-men and just dismiss it?
[01:53:27.650 --> 01:53:40.050] [SPEAKER_20]: Well, we've recently started this thing we're calling the Yes Lab, which is about helping activists, activist groups, individuals, what have you, to do actions on their own.
[01:53:40.270 --> 01:53:45.950] [SPEAKER_20]: We got tired of people coming up to us and saying, why don't you go after Monsanto or whatever?
[01:53:46.590 --> 01:53:48.650] [SPEAKER_20]: You know, we'd retort, well, you do it.
[01:53:48.750 --> 01:53:49.690] [SPEAKER_20]: It's not that hard.
[01:53:49.690 --> 01:53:52.950] [SPEAKER_20]: And we start publishing our tips and all that, how we do it.
[01:53:52.950 --> 01:54:00.870] [SPEAKER_20]: Now we actually have workshops, and we tell them very simple things like, don't worry about lawyers, don't even talk to lawyers.
[01:54:01.430 --> 01:54:04.070] [SPEAKER_20]: Here's how you get into a conference if you want to do that.
[01:54:04.310 --> 01:54:06.890] [SPEAKER_20]: Here's how you can be funny.
[01:54:07.890 --> 01:54:10.050] [SPEAKER_20]: So, you know, other people now.
[01:54:10.270 --> 01:54:15.670] [SPEAKER_20]: There's a lot of people and a lot of faces that these places don't expect.
[01:54:15.950 --> 01:54:21.350] [SPEAKER_20]: And as whether this sort of thing will become old, I don't think so.
[01:54:21.350 --> 01:54:24.990] [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, this has been done for centuries.
[01:54:25.510 --> 01:54:32.210] [SPEAKER_20]: You know, people making fun of power using humor has been used for a really long time to good effect.
[01:54:32.970 --> 01:54:44.910] [SPEAKER_20]: Just 11 years ago, activists in Serbia toppled Milosevic, the dictator there, using a lot of these funny techniques, a lot of really crazy things they did.
[01:54:44.910 --> 01:54:47.610] [SPEAKER_20]: If you look that up, there are some really funny stories.
[01:54:47.790 --> 01:54:49.130] [SPEAKER_20]: It's a very powerful thing.
[01:54:49.130 --> 01:54:54.590] [SPEAKER_20]: And in Egypt, there was also a tremendous amount of humor used by the activists in all kinds of ways.
[01:54:54.710 --> 01:54:56.310] [SPEAKER_20]: It's just useful.
[01:54:56.890 --> 01:54:57.850] [SPEAKER_16]: We're just about out of time.
[01:54:57.930 --> 01:54:59.130] [SPEAKER_16]: Bernie, I wanted to give you the last word.
[01:54:59.250 --> 01:55:00.110] [SPEAKER_16]: We haven't heard from you in a while.
[01:55:00.250 --> 01:55:01.350] [SPEAKER_16]: Anything from down in Philadelphia?
[01:55:01.650 --> 01:55:04.310] [SPEAKER_30]: Well, I just want to say I'm a huge fan of the Yes Men.
[01:55:04.310 --> 01:55:14.110] [SPEAKER_30]: And I imagine anybody who listens to WBAI, which I'm sure everybody listening is a fan of WBAI, is a fan of the Yes Men.
[01:55:14.270 --> 01:55:16.950] [SPEAKER_30]: And Yes Men fans are a fan of WBAI's goals.
[01:55:17.110 --> 01:55:21.430] [SPEAKER_30]: They're very complementary missions.
[01:55:21.470 --> 01:55:24.490] [SPEAKER_30]: I was laughing when you were talking about the Les Labs.
[01:55:25.450 --> 01:55:29.570] [SPEAKER_30]: I'm wondering if there's going to be a Yes Men corporate franchising opportunities.
[01:55:29.570 --> 01:55:32.870] [SPEAKER_30]: So we could start our own branches.
[01:55:33.030 --> 01:55:33.810] [SPEAKER_30]: But it's not really necessary.
[01:55:34.070 --> 01:55:34.950] [SPEAKER_30]: Anybody can do this.
[01:55:34.950 --> 01:55:35.830] [SPEAKER_30]: And that's the beauty of it.
[01:55:35.970 --> 01:55:48.970] [SPEAKER_30]: But I want to just sort of close out by encouraging our listeners who support this sort of activism with a great streak of humor to call 212-209-2950.
[01:55:49.270 --> 01:55:54.290] [SPEAKER_30]: Pledge support for WBAI, which publicizes and honors this sort of thing.
[01:55:54.290 --> 01:55:55.790] [SPEAKER_30]: And you're going to get some great gifts.
[01:55:56.010 --> 01:55:59.890] [SPEAKER_30]: They're a spoof of the New York Times, two of their movies, autographed.
[01:55:59.970 --> 01:56:03.930] [SPEAKER_30]: It's a great package for $75, 212-209-2950.
[01:56:04.350 --> 01:56:04.850] [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[01:56:04.850 --> 01:56:06.110] [SPEAKER_16]: We're pretty much out of time.
[01:56:06.410 --> 01:56:11.210] [SPEAKER_16]: I want to thank both you guys just for being here, for doing what you do.
[01:56:11.770 --> 01:56:12.890] [SPEAKER_16]: And thanks to you.
[01:56:12.890 --> 01:56:16.350] [SPEAKER_20]: And thanks to WBAI for giving us information.
[01:56:16.550 --> 01:56:17.510] [SPEAKER_20]: There's a lot of magic.
[01:56:17.590 --> 01:56:17.630] [SPEAKER_20]: So rare.
[01:56:17.830 --> 01:56:21.710] [SPEAKER_16]: A lot of magic in this world that if we band together, we can do incredible things.
[01:56:21.710 --> 01:56:27.210] [SPEAKER_16]: And I'm looking forward to the Hope Conference when you guys will be keynoting and just the connection of worlds there.
[01:56:27.570 --> 01:56:32.490] [SPEAKER_16]: And whatever comes this spring with Occupy Wall Street and all kinds of other fun things that are happening.
[01:56:32.570 --> 01:56:33.250] [SPEAKER_16]: It's going to be fun.
[01:56:33.410 --> 01:56:36.730] [SPEAKER_16]: Please keep those calls coming in, 212-209-2950.
[01:56:36.730 --> 01:56:39.010] [SPEAKER_16]: We'll be back next week with a regular program.
[01:56:40.970 --> 01:56:43.410] [SPEAKER_16]: And any Yes Men sites that you want to give out?
[01:56:43.510 --> 01:56:44.610] [SPEAKER_16]: Any contact info?
[01:56:44.610 --> 01:56:45.290] [SPEAKER_16]: Sure.
[01:56:45.710 --> 01:56:48.190] [SPEAKER_20]: Yeslab.org is our newest thing.
[01:56:48.750 --> 01:56:51.830] [SPEAKER_20]: www.yeslab.org.
[01:56:52.210 --> 01:56:57.510] [SPEAKER_20]: And you can sign up, read all our tips, how to do things.
[01:56:57.970 --> 01:56:59.550] [SPEAKER_20]: And yeah, join one of our Yes Labs.
[01:56:59.690 --> 01:57:03.830] [SPEAKER_20]: If you're in New York, at NYU, every Friday we do workshops.
[01:57:04.410 --> 01:57:07.290] [SPEAKER_20]: So yeah, just drop a line and say hi.
[01:57:07.590 --> 01:57:08.030] [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[01:57:08.190 --> 01:57:09.610] [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks, Andy Bickelbaum from the Yes Men.
[01:57:09.610 --> 01:57:13.490] [SPEAKER_16]: And thanks also to Mike Bonanno, who was with us from Scotland earlier.
[01:57:13.530 --> 01:57:16.130] [SPEAKER_16]: And we'll be, I'm sure, hearing more from you guys.
[01:57:16.250 --> 01:57:18.550] [SPEAKER_16]: Again, 212-209-2950.
[01:57:18.910 --> 01:57:20.430] [SPEAKER_16]: That's the number to call to pledge.
[01:57:20.830 --> 01:57:21.970] [SPEAKER_16]: We'll see you next week.
[01:57:22.130 --> 01:57:22.330] [SPEAKER_16]: Good night.