Off The Hook - 2012-08-08

[00:01.210 --> 00:03.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: Look, down in the water.
[00:03.670 --> 00:04.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a plant.
[00:05.050 --> 00:06.210]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's an animal.
[00:06.550 --> 00:08.770]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a dinoflagellate.
[00:08.950 --> 00:11.670]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's dinoflagellates.
[00:11.990 --> 00:17.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: Strange microbes with powers and abilities far beyond those of normal microbes.
[00:18.470 --> 00:19.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: Dinoflagellates.
[00:19.390 --> 00:23.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: The subject of Ken Gale's next episode of Ecologic.
[00:23.610 --> 00:26.650]  [SPEAKER_01]: Tuesday, August 21st at 8 p.m.
[00:26.890 --> 00:29.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: right here on WBAI New York.
[00:29.750 --> 00:33.830]  [SPEAKER_01]: 99.5 FM and WBAI.org.
[00:37.530 --> 00:43.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: And this is WBAI New York at 99.5 FM.
[00:43.960 --> 00:47.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's 7 o'clock, which means, once again, it's time for Off The Hook.
[02:13.050 --> 02:14.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:14.380 --> 02:15.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: The program is Off The Hook.
[02:15.430 --> 02:19.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening, joined tonight by Rob T.
[02:19.660 --> 02:20.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Firefly.
[02:20.280 --> 02:20.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[02:20.860 --> 02:21.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Jim.
[02:21.380 --> 02:21.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello.
[02:22.100 --> 02:23.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: And Bernie S.
[02:23.260 --> 02:24.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: down in Pennsylvania, I believe.
[02:24.820 --> 02:25.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Greetings from Pennsylvania.
[02:26.460 --> 02:29.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is it just me, or are we getting less and less people every week?
[02:29.760 --> 02:32.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Boy, this hasn't been this empty in a while.
[02:33.060 --> 02:33.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: I like it.
[02:33.820 --> 02:34.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not complaining.
[02:34.560 --> 02:35.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's good to have some space.
[02:36.080 --> 02:38.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: If it'll help out, I can stretch out and take up two seats.
[02:38.500 --> 02:38.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: Look at me.
[02:38.800 --> 02:39.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm stretching right now.
[02:39.720 --> 02:41.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not hitting anybody this time.
[02:41.240 --> 02:41.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's incredible.
[02:42.600 --> 02:42.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[02:43.100 --> 02:43.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[02:43.400 --> 02:50.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's part of the August purge, I guess, where we just basically thin our ranks a little bit and see what we have in the fall.
[02:51.520 --> 02:53.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we have an interesting show tonight.
[02:53.140 --> 02:59.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's a reason why some people aren't here, and we have other things to discuss and talk about.
[02:59.840 --> 03:01.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Of course, we are still recuperating from hope.
[03:02.280 --> 03:06.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: The Hackers on Planet Earth conference took place last month now, about a month ago.
[03:06.620 --> 03:08.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Bernie, are you pretty much recovered?
[03:08.500 --> 03:10.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, not completely.
[03:10.660 --> 03:16.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was a lot of work, but it was also very energizing.
[03:16.860 --> 03:20.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: But in a way, you just sort of have to get back to a normal way of life.
[03:20.820 --> 03:27.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because as you know, it's months and years in the planning, and you just sort of get into this mode and mindset.
[03:27.780 --> 03:30.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it takes a while to settle back into a normal mode of life.
[03:30.660 --> 03:34.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I woke up in a cold sweat thinking that I had some planning to do.
[03:35.060 --> 03:39.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it was a good five minutes before I realized, no, it's over.
[03:39.420 --> 03:39.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's done.
[03:39.800 --> 03:41.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like that French test.
[03:41.680 --> 03:44.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: I keep waking up thinking I have to take tomorrow from high school.
[03:45.080 --> 03:46.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but it's fun.
[03:46.680 --> 03:47.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a lot more fun than that.
[03:47.880 --> 03:52.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: And yeah, I'm already looking forward to 2014, because this one just went really smoothly.
[03:52.280 --> 03:54.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we've heard so many positive things about that.
[03:54.300 --> 03:56.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: And yeah, it keeps coming in.
[03:56.520 --> 04:02.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: The reports keep coming in from various people as to just what they experienced at Hope No.
[04:02.340 --> 04:02.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: 9.
[04:03.880 --> 04:08.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: So what we're doing tonight, we're going to talk about some other hacker events on the horizon.
[04:08.400 --> 04:10.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Some of them are looming on the horizon.
[04:12.600 --> 04:15.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: And there's two in particular that we're going to be focusing on tonight.
[04:15.380 --> 04:20.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: First, though, I'd like to just take a very quick look at some of the things that have been going on in the news.
[04:21.470 --> 04:37.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, well, according to the ACLU, or actually attorneys for Facebook and the American Civil Liberties Union, they both want a federal appeals court to rule, and this is about one of the silliest things I've said, but it probably is important anyway.
[04:37.700 --> 04:46.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: They want a federal appeals court, anyone will do, to rule that clicking like on the social networking site is constitutionally protected free speech.
[04:46.820 --> 04:47.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[04:48.600 --> 04:57.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, well, I guess the case basically revolves around six employees who were fired by Hampton Sheriff B.J.
[04:57.540 --> 05:02.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Roberts after they supported his re-election opponent in 2009.
[05:03.740 --> 05:04.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Where is this sheriff?
[05:05.180 --> 05:06.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess it's...
[05:06.120 --> 05:07.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you have any idea?
[05:07.280 --> 05:07.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: They don't...
[05:07.820 --> 05:10.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: These stories, this is from Newsday, they don't say what state.
[05:10.540 --> 05:12.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's Hampton...
[05:12.940 --> 05:14.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hampton is like in every state.
[05:14.700 --> 05:16.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like Washington or Lincoln.
[05:16.040 --> 05:18.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's somewhere they still have sheriffs who go by things like B.J.
[05:19.160 --> 05:19.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah.
[05:20.880 --> 05:25.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: The workers sued, saying they should not have been fired and that their First Amendment rights were violated.
[05:26.360 --> 05:26.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: U.S.
[05:27.240 --> 05:29.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: District Judge Raymond Jackson ruled against them.
[05:30.140 --> 05:32.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: The workers are appealing to the Fourth U.S.
[05:32.500 --> 05:33.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond.
[05:33.980 --> 05:38.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: And in that ruling, there was no dislike button to hit.
[05:38.880 --> 05:42.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's another problem, that there should have been a dislike button after that ruling.
[05:42.320 --> 05:43.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, I think that's a good idea.
[05:43.980 --> 05:52.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Every time there's a Supreme Court ruling or an appeals court ruling, there should be like buttons that people, you know, journalists, politicians, regular people, we can click these buttons.
[05:52.980 --> 06:01.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, why not just make everything like or dislike, you know, stop all the dialogue, just yes or no, we can move on and do so many other things.
[06:01.960 --> 06:08.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's potential to this idea, but can we like arm the dislike buttons with something like a jolt of electricity attached to the politician in question?
[06:08.760 --> 06:09.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: I like that idea.
[06:10.300 --> 06:10.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you?
[06:10.820 --> 06:11.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent.
[06:11.400 --> 06:14.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: One of the workers liked the Facebook page of Robert's opponent.
[06:15.300 --> 06:20.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Jackson wrote that clicking the like button isn't a substantive statement that warrants First Amendment protection.
[06:20.300 --> 06:22.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: I gotta agree with that, sort of.
[06:22.360 --> 06:28.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: I see what he's saying because it really is silly, but no way should you get fired for clicking a like button.
[06:28.180 --> 06:29.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't care what you're liking.
[06:29.760 --> 06:31.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: You should be able to like whatever you want.
[06:31.400 --> 06:33.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's what, you know, liking is all about.
[06:34.180 --> 06:37.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or perhaps they just shouldn't have been messing around with Facebook at work.
[06:37.000 --> 06:38.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's the real issue here.
[06:38.900 --> 06:41.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Why were they clicking on Facebook at work?
[06:42.120 --> 06:45.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: I assume it was at work, but all right.
[06:45.160 --> 06:47.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then, of course, we had what happened today.
[06:48.060 --> 06:49.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Of course, we know about that.
[06:49.320 --> 06:50.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: We've all experienced the traffic.
[06:50.520 --> 06:58.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: We know the city has been mired in gridlock and all kinds of alerts and things like that.
[06:58.180 --> 06:58.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: And why?
[06:58.940 --> 07:01.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because what was going on today in Times Square?
[07:01.960 --> 07:06.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: There was the competition for the fastest texter in America.
[07:07.000 --> 07:11.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that was taking place today in Times Square this afternoon.
[07:11.320 --> 07:12.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: The winner got $50,000.
[07:12.820 --> 07:13.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: I heard the results on the radio.
[07:14.080 --> 07:20.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: They actually broke into a report on national security to tell us that the winner is the same winner as last year.
[07:20.920 --> 07:24.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: And in fact, what he's doing is he's collecting $50,000 every year to pay for school.
[07:25.960 --> 07:28.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Where hopefully he won't be texting all the time.
[07:28.320 --> 07:30.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: But right now, he is texting.
[07:30.480 --> 07:33.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: And apparently, he's quite good.
[07:33.860 --> 07:35.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: The competition basically tested three skills.
[07:35.960 --> 07:37.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Speed, accuracy, and dexterity.
[07:38.420 --> 07:41.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Fortunately, there was no category for just wasting time, period.
[07:41.460 --> 07:42.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because they would have lost that.
[07:42.760 --> 07:43.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: There are three rounds.
[07:43.980 --> 07:45.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Texting while blindfolded.
[07:45.660 --> 07:46.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Texting while driving.
[07:47.220 --> 07:48.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, I'm just kidding.
[07:48.300 --> 07:50.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Texting with hands behind their backs.
[07:50.720 --> 07:52.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Text and text blitz.
[07:53.160 --> 07:54.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Say that three times fast.
[07:54.920 --> 07:57.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Where phrases are shown to the contestants for a length of time.
[07:57.560 --> 07:59.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: And they have to copy it as fast as they can before the next one.
[08:01.000 --> 08:04.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: The competition is sponsored by cell phone maker LG Electronics.
[08:04.740 --> 08:05.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I wish I knew the name.
[08:06.000 --> 08:07.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Actually, last year's champion.
[08:07.100 --> 08:08.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: His name is Austin Weirsch.
[08:10.640 --> 08:13.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: I couldn't text that if I saw the name.
[08:14.040 --> 08:15.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: W-E-I-R-S-C-H-K-E.
[08:16.660 --> 08:18.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: He came back today to defend his title.
[08:18.420 --> 08:23.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: But on my understanding, if that bulletin was correct, is that he succeeded in doing that and he won another 50 grand.
[08:23.980 --> 08:26.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Competitors range in age from...
[08:26.100 --> 08:26.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Rob T.
[08:26.580 --> 08:32.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Firefell, I'm going to give you a guess here as to what the range in age for the texting championship is.
[08:33.810 --> 08:34.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: 12 to 13?
[08:35.180 --> 08:36.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Very good, but no.
[08:37.940 --> 08:39.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: Bernie, you want to try?
[08:39.900 --> 08:45.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I was going to guess a little wider range from like 11 to 15.
[08:46.000 --> 08:49.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's not bad either, but no, it's wrong.
[08:49.260 --> 08:51.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's actually 16 to 24.
[08:52.330 --> 08:57.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I just find it hard to believe that nobody over the age of 24 even was competing in this.
[08:57.380 --> 09:02.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe that's a sign of maturity where you realize that's something that's just too silly to waste your time on.
[09:02.860 --> 09:06.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: Perhaps they were all busy having substantive conversations with people.
[09:06.550 --> 09:07.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[09:07.780 --> 09:08.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, Bernie, go ahead.
[09:08.520 --> 09:22.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is it, say anything in the article there about, in the story about how long it took them to send a text, assuming they, it was like a full 160 character text message, how long it took them to type it out, tap it out?
[09:22.120 --> 09:24.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: I read the entire story.
[09:24.460 --> 09:31.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: For more information, go to Twitter, where you can read another 140 characters, which I'm sure will give us all kinds of information.
[09:31.440 --> 09:35.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, okay, speaking of Twitter, um, there was a threatening tweet.
[09:35.830 --> 09:41.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if you guys saw it go by, but it was a threatening tweet aimed at Mike Tyson's Broadway show.
[09:41.340 --> 09:51.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: According to the NYPD, yesterday they said that Twitter had, this is kind of important actually, Twitter has complied with a subpoena and identified the user who threatened to attack a Broadway theater.
[09:51.480 --> 09:57.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, it was an attack based on the attack, uh, that happened last month in Colorado.
[09:57.240 --> 09:59.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Even people who threaten attacks don't have original ideas.
[09:59.300 --> 10:01.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: They have to base it on a theme that was already presented.
[10:01.880 --> 10:11.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, the Twitter user, whose name police did not release, uh, threatened to open fire inside the Longacre theater on Broadway where boxer Mike Tyson's one man show Undisputed Truth is playing.
[10:11.920 --> 10:17.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's a picture here in this story of a, of a cop with a machine gun standing outside the theater.
[10:17.800 --> 10:19.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a welcome sight for theater goers.
[10:19.840 --> 10:20.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Don't you think to walk?
[10:20.780 --> 10:26.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Actually, there was one on either side of the, of the, of the entrance to policemen with machine guns greeting you as you walk into the theater.
[10:26.880 --> 10:29.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh yes, the 21st century has arrived.
[10:30.080 --> 10:31.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, this ain't no joke, yo.
[10:31.860 --> 10:32.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm serious.
[10:32.450 --> 10:34.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: People are going to die like Aurora.
[10:34.420 --> 10:36.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: The unidentified user tweeted last week.
[10:36.740 --> 10:42.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: The post, of course, referring to the July 20th shooting in a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, left 12 people dead, 58 injured.
[10:43.400 --> 10:46.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, reactions from theater goers on Thursday were mixed.
[10:47.760 --> 10:51.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: If someone makes a threat like that, I'd take it seriously, said J.
[10:51.340 --> 10:52.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Pierre, who was visiting from Texas.
[10:52.840 --> 11:00.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, Joe Munley, though, of Scranton, Pennsylvania, who used to spar with Tyson, uh, brought his family to see the former heavyweight champion perform on Tuesday.
[11:00.520 --> 11:01.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: He said, it's total nonsense.
[11:01.860 --> 11:04.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's probably somebody who doesn't like Mike.
[11:05.600 --> 11:07.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Check out the brains on this guy.
[11:07.180 --> 11:07.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[11:07.400 --> 11:09.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I, it's probably not one of his admirers.
[11:09.560 --> 11:10.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: I, I, I agree with you there.
[11:10.940 --> 11:13.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's, uh, never would have thought of that.
[11:13.320 --> 11:20.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, but the one thing that, uh, you do have to remember is that when these threats are made, usually when the lunatics strike, it's without warning.
[11:20.080 --> 11:22.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: They don't say, I'm going to do this and then they do it.
[11:22.620 --> 11:23.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: That happens on TV.
[11:23.520 --> 11:24.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: It doesn't happen in real life.
[11:24.360 --> 11:31.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: It doesn't mean you shouldn't check it out, but, uh, um, I don't know if putting machine gun toting officers at the entrance to the theater is really the way to go.
[11:31.980 --> 11:39.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: But, but on the other hand, putting machine gun toting officers in front of the sort of people who would go to see a Mike Tyson one-man show is maybe a better idea than most.
[11:40.260 --> 11:43.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it, it definitely tied into, uh, to the one-man show idea.
[11:43.760 --> 11:46.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: I, I think they should have put them on stage, you know, uh, laugh or else.
[11:46.920 --> 11:50.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: I, I assume there's a comedy or that's, well, no, maybe it's not a comedy.
[11:51.100 --> 11:54.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: I just, I laugh at the idea, but, oh, but now I'm in trouble with Mike Tyson.
[11:55.800 --> 11:56.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[11:56.360 --> 11:58.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, well, here's, here's my question though.
[11:58.520 --> 12:08.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, the, uh, the NYPD, uh, uh, basically, um, um, issued or, or was behind a subpoena, uh, that, um, uh, Twitter identified this user.
[12:09.200 --> 12:13.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't need to give your real information to Twitter.
[12:13.160 --> 12:15.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, uh, what information could they possibly have gotten?
[12:16.620 --> 12:16.920]  Hmm.
[12:17.320 --> 12:18.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: That, that's correct.
[12:18.260 --> 12:22.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Although, um, I guess, uh, another thing they could probably get is your IP address and where you're connecting from.
[12:22.540 --> 12:23.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: That is true.
[12:23.180 --> 12:30.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, any, any geographic data that was attached to your, uh, tweets, if you're, if you're tweeting devices, GPS capabilities and so on.
[12:30.800 --> 12:38.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Assuming the person wasn't smart enough to, uh, use some kind of anonymizing, um, um, technique and, and mask where they were coming from.
[12:39.420 --> 12:40.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Probably not.
[12:43.160 --> 12:44.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe not very smart to begin with.
[12:44.380 --> 12:46.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's smarter than picking a fight with him in the street.
[12:46.220 --> 12:46.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is true.
[12:47.040 --> 12:47.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[12:47.480 --> 12:47.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[12:47.840 --> 12:49.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, we have to make our first telephone call.
[12:49.980 --> 12:53.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, and, uh, we're actually going to be going over to Germany.
[12:54.160 --> 12:56.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and this dial tone is going to help get us there.
[12:57.400 --> 12:58.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: I, I, I hope.
[12:58.400 --> 12:59.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: I haven't dialed this in a while.
[12:59.460 --> 13:00.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: We dialed nine, right?
[13:00.280 --> 13:01.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, we don't have to dial nine.
[13:01.380 --> 13:02.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think we do anymore.
[13:02.100 --> 13:02.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[13:02.320 --> 13:04.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I'm just going to start dialing the number.
[13:04.440 --> 13:07.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to turn down the audio so people can't hear what I'm dialing.
[13:08.220 --> 13:10.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we're actually calling overseas right now.
[13:11.460 --> 13:12.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: And let's see if that worked.
[13:12.920 --> 13:16.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sometimes, because I can't hear the Touch-Tone, sometimes it doesn't work.
[13:17.160 --> 13:19.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: So next thing you hear should be a phone ringing in Germany.
[13:23.040 --> 13:24.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's what that is.
[13:27.220 --> 13:29.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: We'll be speaking with someone named Fukami, I believe.
[13:33.020 --> 13:33.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello.
[13:33.880 --> 13:34.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, hello.
[13:34.440 --> 13:35.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is this, uh, Fukami?
[13:35.940 --> 13:37.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's Fukami here.
[13:37.200 --> 13:37.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi, how are you?
[13:37.960 --> 13:41.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is Emmanuel from Off The Hook, and you're live on the radio in New York City.
[13:43.140 --> 13:46.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm in Hamburg, and it's like in the middle of the night.
[13:47.000 --> 13:49.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry for, uh, for calling so late.
[13:49.620 --> 13:51.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, unfortunately, that's just the way the planet works.
[13:52.040 --> 13:55.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, if we want to talk to you live, we've got to call you in the middle of the night.
[13:55.840 --> 13:58.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, but, um, we, we have an important reason for calling.
[13:58.620 --> 14:01.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, and that's the announcement that you guys made.
[14:01.400 --> 14:19.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: The Chaos, uh, Communication Congress people, uh, made an announcement, um, a couple of days ago, uh, that the, um, the annual Congress, which takes place on the, uh, 26th, 27th, 28th, no, I'm sorry, the 27th, 28th, 29th, and 30th of December every year,
[14:19.340 --> 14:23.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: instead of happening in Berlin this year, is, is moving to Hamburg.
[14:23.680 --> 14:24.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is that correct?
[14:25.040 --> 14:25.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's correct.
[14:25.860 --> 14:37.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, the main reason is, uh, uh, uh, we really like the BCC, which is a really, really great place, and, um, they're really great people.
[14:37.680 --> 14:40.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: The BCC being the Berlin, uh, Congress Center, right?
[14:41.920 --> 15:03.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, um, but, uh, the last, we didn't, um, have enough space for, for all the people who wanted to attend, and it was really a nightmare to get a ticket, um, and it was not only like last year, and also the year before, and we were really, really looking for a different spot in Berlin,
[15:03.340 --> 15:20.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: but we didn't find anything which was, like, good enough for us, or, or, yeah, which just had these opportunities we need to have to reverse these, um, this kind of eventually went for, um, yeah.
[15:20.900 --> 15:30.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, now, you guys have really, uh, I guess it's not really a bad problem to have, but you have more and more people who want to go to the Chaos Congress, which is a, a huge hacker gathering.
[15:30.980 --> 15:45.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: You have more and more people every year wanting to do that, so you had to implement, um, basically, um, advanced ticket sales that I think were, were, um, were sold out in a matter of seconds, and it just made it extremely hard, particularly for people coming from other countries,
[15:45.180 --> 15:47.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: to actually get to the event.
[15:47.640 --> 15:50.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: It got to the point where you guys were encouraging people to stay away.
[15:51.820 --> 15:53.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and that's, that's really bad.
[15:54.520 --> 16:09.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, like, um, all of those, like, all the hacker events, um, are becoming bigger and bigger, and that's, uh, the same, yeah, problem, like, for every kind of event, um, existing for a long time.
[16:10.060 --> 16:25.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, we have, like, the 30th anniversary next year, and the main idea was to, to have that big party, and if you had, like, um, um, um, so many people, um, which, you know, it's, like, really, really bad.
[16:26.220 --> 16:45.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, it's best for the community, it's best for the event, and also, since we don't have much space there, or, or, or, or don't have the possibilities to just, yeah, move ahead and, and, and, and, um, and try, try new, like, things, new, new concept on an event like BCC.
[16:46.640 --> 16:52.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, yeah, it was, like, kind of, like, dead end.
[16:52.480 --> 17:07.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, well, it's interesting, because, you know, when we, we first started using that building, the BCC building in Berlin, it seemed so big, I guess, because not as many people were going, but, uh, but every year, more and more people, uh, how many, how many people were you able to fit comfortably in there?
[17:09.020 --> 17:11.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, around 4,000.
[17:11.940 --> 17:12.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: 4,000?
[17:12.780 --> 17:17.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's, that's double what we get at the HUB conferences, so that's, uh, a fair number of people, but even that's not enough.
[17:18.420 --> 17:18.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[17:20.240 --> 17:22.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow, that's... So, in the new spot, it's really, really cool.
[17:22.920 --> 17:28.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you know, the, um, the one before BCC, the, um, HAKP?
[17:29.380 --> 17:35.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, it, um, before, before BCC, it was held in the former communist youth, uh, uh, center, right?
[17:36.620 --> 17:37.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, true.
[17:37.560 --> 17:42.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and, uh, the new venue, uh, really reminds me on that.
[17:43.040 --> 17:48.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's, like, really, uh, like a 70s style, it's, like, an old, uh, Congress center.
[17:48.180 --> 17:51.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not, like, this, this brand new, uh, faces building.
[17:51.900 --> 17:52.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's really, really nice.
[17:53.380 --> 17:53.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[17:54.080 --> 18:00.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, we have space, um, for, like, for everyone.
[18:00.300 --> 18:06.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, I don't think that we will, uh, um, get into trouble, like, the next, at least, five years or ten years or so.
[18:07.240 --> 18:10.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, by that point, I can't imagine how many people will be, uh, showing up then.
[18:11.240 --> 18:13.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, uh, can you give us an idea of what the capacity is?
[18:13.900 --> 18:15.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or have you not calculated that yet?
[18:16.420 --> 18:17.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, no.
[18:17.800 --> 18:30.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: We are still, like, in, in, in some of the, um, uh, like, discussions with the, with the owners of the, um, of the venue, uh, what, uh, places we, like, really get.
[18:31.360 --> 18:37.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, um, altogether, it's, like, a place for, uh, like, 20,000 people or so.
[18:37.420 --> 18:39.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Did you say 20,000 people?
[18:39.900 --> 18:40.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[18:40.620 --> 18:41.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, my God.
[18:41.600 --> 19:01.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but, uh, since it's, like, um, a very nice building for, like, um, splitting it off into, like, different parts, uh, I think we'll have, um, enough place, uh, even if, like, like, 5,000 or so, that's what we think in the moment.
[19:01.860 --> 19:05.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but if there are 10,000, it doesn't matter, you know?
[19:05.400 --> 19:09.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and that's, like, a really, really, um, big benefit for, for planning.
[19:09.900 --> 19:11.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, okay.
[19:13.040 --> 19:16.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's, it's also, it's also good, I think, to be, uh, to be mixing it up a little bit.
[19:16.980 --> 19:24.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: I know a bunch of people, myself included, actually, uh, we've been going to CCC year after year, and it sort of was starting to feel like a routine.
[19:24.540 --> 19:26.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're going to the same place year after year.
[19:27.060 --> 19:29.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: And after a while, you know, this is why we don't have hope every year.
[19:29.320 --> 19:31.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: We don't want to do the same thing year after year.
[19:31.240 --> 19:32.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: We want to do different things, go to different places.
[19:32.800 --> 19:39.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I, I've heard from a number of people moving to Hamburg is actually a good thing in and of itself because it's a change of scenery.
[19:39.720 --> 19:41.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a different, uh, style.
[19:41.320 --> 19:45.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: And this first Congress taking place in Hamburg is, is definitely going to be historic.
[19:47.080 --> 19:47.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[19:47.840 --> 19:49.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, that's one thing.
[19:49.040 --> 19:52.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, like, um, we also don't know this place really.
[19:52.640 --> 19:58.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: We just, uh, we've been there a couple of times, uh, not just to watch it, but we don't know how it works.
[19:58.580 --> 20:02.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: There are people, we don't know how it works to, to, yeah, to do anything there.
[20:03.180 --> 20:12.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's really very, very interesting just to, yeah, to, to, to, to explore possibilities on a new, on a new place.
[20:12.180 --> 20:13.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: And we have like lots and lots of space.
[20:13.860 --> 20:17.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's, that's what, what, what makes it so interesting.
[20:18.720 --> 20:19.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[20:19.420 --> 20:22.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, now what kind of reaction have you gotten so far since making the announcement?
[20:24.300 --> 20:34.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, most people, um, um, are really glad that, uh, that the, the ticket situation, um, is like gone.
[20:34.500 --> 20:35.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's the main thing.
[20:35.980 --> 20:39.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: So that, that, that everybody's, uh, able to attend.
[20:40.240 --> 20:48.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and most people are really glad that there's a possibility to, yeah, to move forward.
[20:48.760 --> 20:48.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[20:49.660 --> 21:01.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: With the, with the whole idea of like having, having such an event, um, where like, uh, the whole German and like European community comes together or American friends and stuff.
[21:02.060 --> 21:14.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, um, yeah, we have like, we have like possibilities and that, that's something, uh, we didn't have for like last four years or so where, where nothing really happened.
[21:15.260 --> 21:17.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, and so the people are really picking it up.
[21:17.680 --> 21:27.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: A couple of people are, are a little bit sad that, uh, that we, uh, are going to leave Berlin, but Hamburg is also really a nice town.
[21:27.880 --> 21:33.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just to put it in perspective for the American audience here, it's, yeah, it's a, it's a major change in, in venue.
[21:33.780 --> 21:41.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's going from one city to another, but if you take a high-speed train from Berlin to Hamburg, you get there in an hour and a half, I believe.
[21:42.000 --> 21:42.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is that correct?
[21:43.000 --> 21:43.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[21:44.280 --> 21:49.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, Long Island takes longer to get to New York and we don't have high-speed trains here, but wow.
[21:50.220 --> 21:54.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: So it's, it's not that it's, it's far away, but it's not that far away time-wise.
[21:55.180 --> 21:57.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but I mean, it's a tiny, tiny, tiny country still.
[21:58.720 --> 22:04.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, so, but, um, but Hamburg is a big city, um, it has a, um, it has a big harbor.
[22:05.140 --> 22:07.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a little bit like, like Seattle.
[22:07.340 --> 22:09.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's sort of raining, um, very often.
[22:09.820 --> 22:12.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, um, yeah, it's like a nice town.
[22:13.060 --> 22:21.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: It has, like, uh, lots of, of cultural, uh, things, like, lots of, of, of, uh, nice quarters and, and stuff like that.
[22:22.140 --> 22:25.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, the conference will be running around the clock, I imagine, correct?
[22:25.760 --> 22:26.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, sure.
[22:27.220 --> 22:27.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[22:27.900 --> 22:49.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: And actually, um, uh, the, the Congress started in Hamburg because the first event, uh, we're at, um, a place called, um, uh, and, uh, and the whole event moved to Berlin, like, at 15 G3.
[22:50.240 --> 22:51.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's like 14 years ago.
[22:52.680 --> 22:57.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: So it, um, so the event is going back with, like, origin.
[22:57.300 --> 23:02.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you have any idea how many people used to go to the, the chaos Congress when it was back in Hamburg?
[23:03.940 --> 23:04.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: 200.
[23:04.740 --> 23:04.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: 200.
[23:05.340 --> 23:05.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Amazing.
[23:06.400 --> 23:06.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[23:07.060 --> 23:09.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, is the place still standing that it used to be held in?
[23:10.360 --> 23:10.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[23:11.200 --> 23:30.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Actually, um, every two years there, uh, events, um, called Easter Hacks, which is like, uh, during Eastern and, um, and every two years is in Hamburg, uh, or it was like the last, like, uh, uh, every two years, uh, now that the Congress comes to Hamburg,
[23:30.920 --> 23:35.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: uh, we don't, um, do that event anymore, um, in Hamburg.
[23:36.280 --> 23:44.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, but, um, this, um, is how it was still used for, like, um, some of our events.
[23:45.360 --> 23:52.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, in the announcement, uh, you guys, uh, basically described the new venue as sort of like a campground except inside.
[23:52.880 --> 23:54.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is it really that big?
[23:54.660 --> 23:55.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, and, and is it that flexible?
[23:57.300 --> 23:59.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, actually, it is that big.
[23:59.860 --> 24:24.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and we are still thinking, um, how to, you know, like, or like waiting for, for, for all six, um, dates and stuff, yeah, and, uh, and, and, and, and places we get so that we can really start with a planning, but it's like more, uh, way to like thinking it for the next year,
[24:24.860 --> 24:25.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: like for the 30th anniversary.
[24:26.240 --> 24:29.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like everybody knows what, what it's really possible there.
[24:29.880 --> 24:33.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: So we can like, um, have a good anniversary.
[24:34.360 --> 24:44.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, um, this year is more like, um, looking, uh, yeah, testing, uh, just get used to this place.
[24:44.860 --> 24:51.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, but the basic idea is to have, um, a concept like we have in our camp.
[24:52.700 --> 25:10.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, so it's very, like, um, and more like, more the concept of villages, more, more the idea of, um, people having their own organization of, like, uh, talk and stuff like that so that we only provide, uh, the grounds, uh, but not the program, really.
[25:11.900 --> 25:14.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Like it, uh, uh, in, um, long run.
[25:15.660 --> 25:16.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: I see.
[25:16.840 --> 25:18.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, Bernie, I know you're on the phone.
[25:18.420 --> 25:20.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, do you have any questions for Fukami in Germany?
[25:20.920 --> 25:21.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, Fukami.
[25:21.920 --> 25:32.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, at the, at the current rate of, uh, uh, CCC, uh, attendance, how long will it take for CCC to completely book Hanover Fair?
[25:32.840 --> 25:33.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, boy.
[25:34.520 --> 25:39.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Which holds about, uh, that's where a CBIT is held, and I think its capacity is 600,000.
[25:40.060 --> 25:40.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think...
[25:40.700 --> 25:41.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Where do they find space?
[25:42.020 --> 25:43.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Where do you find these massive venues?
[25:44.000 --> 25:44.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[25:44.740 --> 25:54.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's, uh, well, I've been to it several times, and, uh, I, I firmly believe that there are, uh, more than 600,000 hackers in the world that, uh, that could book Hanover Fair.
[25:54.500 --> 25:56.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: And do you want them all in the same place at the same time?
[25:56.600 --> 25:58.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think it could be pretty interesting.
[25:59.080 --> 25:59.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, boy.
[26:02.260 --> 26:05.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, Fukami, do you think it's going to get to that stage, uh, half a million hackers?
[26:07.000 --> 26:09.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I mean, it's possible.
[26:11.020 --> 26:11.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: Why not?
[26:12.620 --> 26:13.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, boy.
[26:13.660 --> 26:14.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, we're getting extrapolated.
[26:15.440 --> 26:28.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: In the next, uh, not ten years, maybe, but, um, yeah, but if you really want to, to, to have such a big event, um, you have to do it in a, like, completely different way.
[26:28.360 --> 26:35.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, in, in, in our, um, terms, you do it, like, nobody gets paid, um, and stuff like that.
[26:35.980 --> 26:51.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, it's not possible to, to, to, um, to, um, to have an event that side with so many, um, with so many people without, um, having, like, a completely different, uh, way of organizing it.
[26:51.840 --> 26:55.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's not possible to do it, like, uh, with volunteers, uh, anymore.
[26:56.760 --> 26:57.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's true.
[26:57.600 --> 27:14.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, even, like, with our event, uh, where we have, like, 4,000 people, it's less than ten percent, uh, of people who are now volunteering and, um, um, but, um, the whole event lifts from, from that.
[27:14.060 --> 27:29.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, so, the move is also, um, um, yeah, um, an idea to, to get that back so that you don't, so that you don't, um, um, some, some sort of, like, event service, yeah?
[27:30.220 --> 27:39.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: But have an event which is, like, have organized, and, um, people do their own stuff, and we don't, um, need to have, uh, like, high, high, high tickets, and stuff like that.
[27:40.120 --> 27:40.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[27:40.440 --> 27:50.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, I, I, one of the, one of the greatest things about conferences are the ones, uh, Hope is one of them, where so many people volunteer, so many people help out, so you really feel like you, you built it yourself.
[27:50.240 --> 27:52.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: You helped to, uh, to create a massive event.
[27:52.580 --> 27:59.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's something that, um, the, the German conferences have, uh, traditionally been pretty strong with, uh, at the Dutch conferences as well.
[27:59.840 --> 28:06.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, yeah, I'm, I'm hoping that, uh, there'll be a lot of self-organizing and, and new things that we haven't even thought of yet that will spring up as a result of this.
[28:07.180 --> 28:07.840]  Mm-hmm.
[28:08.880 --> 28:12.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, uh, for coming, can you give us any, uh, any contact info?
[28:12.380 --> 28:16.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: People who want to, uh, submit talks or want to get involved in some way, how can they do so?
[28:17.880 --> 28:28.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, the easiest way to, to get to our web blog, which is like events.ccc.de, uh, or follow us on Twitter at CCC.
[28:29.380 --> 28:32.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, the Twitter ID of CCC, you have that?
[28:33.300 --> 28:33.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[28:34.080 --> 28:34.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, awesome.
[28:34.720 --> 28:34.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Great.
[28:34.960 --> 28:37.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the, and the website events.ccc.de.
[28:37.980 --> 28:39.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh...
[28:39.140 --> 28:44.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, there's a CSP and there are, um, all the details for submitting, uh, talks.
[28:44.520 --> 28:49.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, in the next few days, we'll, um, open up the public wiki.
[28:50.520 --> 28:53.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, um, it's like Roland already.
[28:54.240 --> 28:57.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we certainly have something to talk about now, which is, uh, uh, pretty cool.
[28:58.320 --> 29:01.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Best of luck on, on the change of venue and, and going back to Hamburg.
[29:01.620 --> 29:03.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think that'll, uh, definitely be interesting.
[29:03.860 --> 29:06.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, will there be any future events ever in Berlin, do you think?
[29:08.060 --> 29:08.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[29:08.820 --> 29:23.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I think, um, this event, which was in, um, in Hamburg, um, before every three years, maybe, uh, going to move to Davidson, um, maybe going to move to, to Berlin, for example.
[29:24.020 --> 29:24.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[29:24.340 --> 29:27.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think, yeah, yeah, I think it will, like, happen.
[29:27.860 --> 29:29.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I do like the BCC.
[29:29.260 --> 29:30.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: I do like that building.
[29:30.160 --> 29:30.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's very convenient.
[29:31.020 --> 29:31.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[29:31.100 --> 29:35.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: But as you said, it's, it's gotten too small and we have to, uh, keep moving on.
[29:35.560 --> 29:38.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, it's, it's gonna be, we, we, we sort of face the same problem at the hotel.
[29:38.580 --> 29:43.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: We haven't quite gotten there yet in New York, but, uh, people are talking about, uh, maybe we're outgrowing the place.
[29:43.760 --> 29:44.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe we need to expand a bit.
[29:44.960 --> 29:48.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Fortunately, there are some hidden catacombs in the hotel that we can still expand to.
[29:48.860 --> 29:51.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: But after that, yeah, it's gonna be a, it's gonna be a problem.
[29:51.580 --> 29:53.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, growth is, growth can definitely be an issue.
[29:55.160 --> 29:55.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[29:55.260 --> 30:04.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: One of the main discussions we had in advance was like, um, if we, um, if we are going to a bigger place, uh, it's not that private anymore.
[30:04.600 --> 30:05.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think it's the opposite.
[30:06.040 --> 30:09.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because you have more space, it's, it's becoming more private.
[30:09.980 --> 30:17.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, since if you are, uh, in like, uh, for example, in BCC, you don't have, like, your own space anymore.
[30:17.760 --> 30:18.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[30:18.340 --> 30:22.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's all, that there are all, always, there are people everywhere.
[30:22.880 --> 30:31.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, um, so, a bigger place makes more, like, cozy and, and, and stuff, man.
[30:31.740 --> 30:35.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's our hope that we'll get so big that we'll just take over Governor's Island.
[30:35.740 --> 30:39.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's about as private as you can get, because you can't even get there by boat after, after dark.
[30:40.340 --> 30:43.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and Fukami, thank you so much for talking with us.
[30:43.340 --> 30:44.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: And again, best of luck with everything.
[30:44.860 --> 30:52.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we'll be updating people as, as the event, uh, draws closer, but the chaos communication Congress taking place, uh, this year.
[30:52.500 --> 30:57.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, I guess from now on in Hamburg on the 27th, 28th, 29th, and 30th of December.
[30:57.540 --> 31:01.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: And more information, go to events.ccc.de.
[31:01.720 --> 31:05.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, Fukami, I, I think we'll be in touch in the future to, uh, get more updates.
[31:06.160 --> 31:06.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[31:06.700 --> 31:06.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks.
[31:07.460 --> 31:07.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: And goodbye.
[31:08.380 --> 31:08.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks.
[31:09.140 --> 31:09.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Have a good night.
[31:09.780 --> 31:11.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, sorry for calling so late.
[31:12.040 --> 31:13.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, interesting, huh?
[31:13.320 --> 31:14.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's, uh...
[31:14.020 --> 31:18.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like, uh, the event is really going through, uh, going through an interesting time.
[31:18.560 --> 31:27.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it'll be doubly interesting for the people that have been going to, uh, sort of explore a different part of Germany and, uh, find a new, um, you know, explore a new venue.
[31:27.600 --> 31:27.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[31:27.980 --> 31:29.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that makes it more interesting too.
[31:29.420 --> 31:37.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: That makes it, uh, when, when we, uh, actually change the venue and go to a different place, it's like starting over again.
[31:37.460 --> 31:40.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and, you know, the CCC was, was great.
[31:40.160 --> 31:41.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: The Congress was amazing.
[31:41.440 --> 31:44.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Every year was, was cool, but it was basically the same scene every time.
[31:44.880 --> 31:45.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: And this changes it.
[31:45.980 --> 31:46.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: This makes it different.
[31:46.660 --> 31:49.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's kind of like starting a conference in a new country.
[31:49.520 --> 31:56.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a new city in this particular case, but let's say somebody, uh, had a conference in, uh, I don't know, Croatia, Serbia, or someplace like that.
[31:56.960 --> 31:59.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it happened the same time as the Congress happened.
[31:59.940 --> 32:04.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I'd be, uh, kind of leaning towards going to the new place rather than the place I'd been to over and over again.
[32:05.080 --> 32:08.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: But this makes it more interesting and, and I'm much more likely to go because of that.
[32:08.940 --> 32:10.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I think that probably speaks to a lot of people as well.
[32:10.980 --> 32:11.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: It'd be, it'd be fascinating to see.
[32:12.720 --> 32:13.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, okay.
[32:13.400 --> 32:24.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, uh, why don't you guys banter for a moment while I try to reach, uh, some of our people, uh, instead of going to the east now, we're going to go to the west where there's another event that's about to start much closer than, uh, than CCC.
[32:24.840 --> 32:25.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, indeed.
[32:25.500 --> 32:26.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, um, there was one thing I wanted to mention.
[32:27.040 --> 32:29.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was actually, uh, Jim that brought this, uh, to our attention.
[32:29.860 --> 32:35.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, today is the fifth anniversary of the passing of joy bubbles, AKA Joe and Grecia.
[32:35.400 --> 32:40.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, now joy bubbles was, uh, one of the original phone phreaks, uh, back in the 1960s.
[32:40.480 --> 32:46.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: He was, uh, he was known for being a, uh, a blind phone phreak who had perfect pitch.
[32:46.540 --> 32:53.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: He could whistle the blue box tones in order to, uh, exploit the phone system and do all the sorts of things that people were doing.
[32:53.540 --> 33:02.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, he, uh, he passed away in, uh, on today's date in 2007 at the age of, uh, 58 and he lived a very interesting life, uh, did joy bubbles.
[33:02.340 --> 33:05.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: And he was, he was just, uh, he was just a heck of a guy.
[33:05.720 --> 33:08.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: He was, he was featured in secrets of a little blue box.
[33:08.460 --> 33:23.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, which is the, um, Esquire article that sort of blew up, uh, phone phreaking into the public eye and, uh, caused a lot of people, uh, featured in it, uh, people like Captain Crunch and, uh, and so on to, um, suddenly deal with, uh, fame and notoriety.
[33:23.760 --> 33:25.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, you know, in Grecia was no exception.
[33:26.220 --> 33:40.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and he, uh, he basically, he did a lot of, uh, did a lot of the phone phreaking stuff in the sixties, um, got caught, uh, got busted and, uh, dropped out of the freaking scene, but he was always remembered and, uh, fondly remembered by people who spoke with him.
[33:40.960 --> 33:44.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, you know, it was, uh, it was an interesting fellow.
[33:44.200 --> 33:53.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I remember the, um, at the last hope in, uh, 2008, um, we had one of our speaker rooms named in Grecia, um, to memorialize him a little bit.
[33:53.980 --> 33:59.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, I had the chance to speak with him, uh, on a freak teleconference, uh, meet at least 10 years ago.
[34:00.140 --> 34:02.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and he, he was still, he was still an interesting fellow.
[34:03.180 --> 34:12.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, of course, by that time he had changed his name from Joe and Grecia to Joy Bubbles, um, for reasons of his own, but, uh, he, he remains a prominent figure in our history.
[34:13.020 --> 34:16.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, I, I think it's, uh, it, he's a nice fellow to remember.
[34:16.180 --> 34:20.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: There's actually being a documentary, um, is being made about him as well.
[34:20.040 --> 34:23.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, you can find that at, uh, joybubblesthemovie.com.
[34:23.200 --> 34:24.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you know who's making it?
[34:24.340 --> 34:28.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know who's making it, but, uh, yeah, apparently it's in production.
[34:28.100 --> 34:30.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: I was just, uh, I was just directed toward this, uh, today.
[34:30.800 --> 34:32.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: How many years ago was it that he passed away?
[34:32.780 --> 34:33.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was five years.
[34:33.640 --> 34:34.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: Five years.
[34:34.340 --> 34:35.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was five years ago.
[34:35.300 --> 34:35.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[34:35.540 --> 34:35.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 2007.
[34:36.820 --> 34:38.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Boy, time flies.
[34:38.580 --> 34:39.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: That it does.
[34:39.140 --> 34:40.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Feels like, feels like yesterday.
[34:40.760 --> 34:41.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, okay.
[34:41.960 --> 34:45.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, uh, rest in peace, uh, Joy Bubbles and, uh, the legacy will certainly live on.
[34:45.900 --> 34:50.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, joining us on the phone now actually are two of our correspondents.
[34:51.280 --> 34:52.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, uh, Kyle, are you there?
[34:53.540 --> 34:54.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, yes, I'm here.
[34:54.620 --> 34:55.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Can you hear me?
[34:55.580 --> 34:56.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I hear you just fine.
[34:56.840 --> 34:58.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, Mike, I believe you're there as well.
[34:59.100 --> 34:59.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: I am.
[34:59.840 --> 35:00.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: How are you?
[35:00.340 --> 35:00.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[35:00.620 --> 35:04.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you have two different, uh, connections here, but actually the two of you are in the same place.
[35:05.000 --> 35:12.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, you guys are on the way to tour camp, the second tour camp, uh, an outdoor camp taking place in Washington state.
[35:12.580 --> 35:14.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: I believe it, uh, it starts tomorrow.
[35:15.180 --> 35:17.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, are you guys there yet?
[35:17.320 --> 35:18.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you on the way?
[35:18.560 --> 35:19.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Where are you?
[35:20.080 --> 35:20.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're on the way.
[35:21.360 --> 35:22.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: One at a time, please.
[35:24.020 --> 35:25.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, we're on the way.
[35:25.460 --> 35:28.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, maybe another hour or two till we get there.
[35:29.320 --> 35:33.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, driving through, uh, Northwest Washington state.
[35:34.180 --> 35:37.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, we're, um, we're just on the last set of highways.
[35:37.760 --> 35:38.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: We made, made our terms.
[35:38.740 --> 35:46.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: We, we've got to our ferry, uh, and, uh, made our way out to Bainbridge Island and we're sort of near Discovery Bay now, so.
[35:47.020 --> 35:49.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: You realize that means nothing to the people listening in New York.
[35:50.000 --> 35:56.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, but basically you say Seattle, uh, people here seem to think Seattle is, is on the Pacific Ocean, which it's not.
[35:56.820 --> 35:58.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, you're heading...
[35:58.140 --> 36:07.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, it's actually, uh, it's got a huge, uh, sound of its own that, um, is navigable by big ships and, uh, there's many islands within the center of it.
[36:07.300 --> 36:15.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Then to get out to the coast, you have to get, uh, out to the Olympic mountain range and then drive past them, that mountain range.
[36:15.620 --> 36:17.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, then you're on the coast.
[36:17.280 --> 36:21.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: So how long, uh, is the trip heading west from Seattle to get to where you're going?
[36:23.300 --> 36:27.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, I think we have maybe like a hundred more miles, maybe less.
[36:28.180 --> 36:29.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, I haven't really been keeping track.
[36:29.880 --> 36:39.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: I do know that the total trip, including the ferry from Seattle out to the venue for this, uh, hacker camp is, uh, about 176 miles.
[36:39.540 --> 36:42.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think is what it, the maps thing calculated.
[36:42.100 --> 36:42.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[36:43.720 --> 36:44.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's, that's amazing.
[36:44.780 --> 36:48.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's, that's so much further than, than I thought was possible to go west from Seattle.
[36:48.820 --> 36:50.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, so tell us something about the camp.
[36:50.760 --> 36:51.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: What's, what's planned?
[36:51.660 --> 36:52.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: What's it going to be like?
[36:55.300 --> 36:56.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Either one of you.
[36:57.640 --> 36:59.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just not both of you, either one.
[36:59.340 --> 37:07.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's hard to say because there is, uh, uh, you know, it hasn't started yet, but, uh, there's a lot of workshops planned, uh, some of which I've been looking at.
[37:07.640 --> 37:14.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, there's going to be a family of someone who will be implanting RFID chips into people who want that.
[37:14.480 --> 37:16.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, uh, that's, that's a little bit frightening.
[37:16.920 --> 37:18.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: What kind of people want that?
[37:18.360 --> 37:19.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Who wants that?
[37:19.560 --> 37:20.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[37:20.540 --> 37:21.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: I guess we'll find out.
[37:21.800 --> 37:22.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, really.
[37:22.780 --> 37:34.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, and, uh, we, we actually on the ferry on the way here, we ran into, uh, Mitch Altman, uh, and, and Jimmy, and they're going to be doing, uh, the hardware hacking thing that they just travel all around doing.
[37:34.340 --> 37:36.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mitch Altman just happened to be on the same ferry that you were on.
[37:37.360 --> 37:38.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, yeah.
[37:38.520 --> 37:39.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: What are the odds of that?
[37:39.440 --> 37:42.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I guess the odds are pretty strong if you, if you, if the conference is starting tomorrow.
[37:43.160 --> 37:46.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, there's a, I guess one ferry an hour, so maybe one in 24 are the odds.
[37:47.280 --> 37:47.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[37:47.840 --> 37:51.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, but, uh, but Jimmy has something called latitude.
[37:51.540 --> 37:54.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't really know what that is, but apparently it lets you know where people are.
[37:55.080 --> 37:57.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: It lets you stalk people, like, en masse.
[37:57.380 --> 38:05.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: And he describes this sort of, um, westward migration of all the latitude, latitudes, whatever they're called.
[38:05.580 --> 38:07.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm afraid you're going to have to explain that a little bit more.
[38:07.680 --> 38:10.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: He can, he can see where people are with this?
[38:11.020 --> 38:11.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[38:11.460 --> 38:12.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't really know how it works.
[38:12.700 --> 38:13.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: I probably don't want to know.
[38:14.100 --> 38:16.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: All people or just people that are embedded with something?
[38:17.480 --> 38:25.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: I, I believe it's people who have some Google product that, uh, and then he, they let him see where he, where they are.
[38:25.640 --> 38:26.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Ah, sheep.
[38:26.500 --> 38:26.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[38:26.680 --> 38:26.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[38:27.080 --> 38:32.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: It sounds like four square or something, except everybody's moving and you can follow their movement.
[38:32.260 --> 38:33.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: That sounds really neat.
[38:33.340 --> 38:37.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: One other thing I wanted to mention was, uh, there's going to be a cooking competition.
[38:37.000 --> 38:45.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're, they're going to have a competition at, at tour camp where basically, uh, a bunch of, a bunch of people get basic ingredients.
[38:46.020 --> 38:51.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, and they have to do some amazing stuff with, it's like a challenge, like a competition.
[38:51.140 --> 38:58.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: So they have to make, uh, uh, lemonade, so to speak out of whatever kind of food they, they are chosen to, to work with.
[38:58.600 --> 39:00.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: And so that, that is going to be a lot of fun.
[39:00.560 --> 39:01.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's something I haven't seen before.
[39:01.920 --> 39:05.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: So it's kind of like what the French chef meets MacGyver or something like that.
[39:05.780 --> 39:06.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[39:06.320 --> 39:06.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Cool.
[39:07.180 --> 39:08.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, are you partaking in that?
[39:08.380 --> 39:09.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Cause, uh, you're a pretty good cook.
[39:10.400 --> 39:11.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, I was really conflicted.
[39:12.060 --> 39:18.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was trying to bring all kinds of, uh, kitchen stuff, but I think I'm going to be just barbecuing and, uh, doing my own cooking thing.
[39:18.580 --> 39:19.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I definitely, I don't know.
[39:19.720 --> 39:21.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: I, I, I wouldn't sign up.
[39:21.920 --> 39:23.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe I, maybe I'll have what it takes.
[39:23.600 --> 39:27.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: I brought, I did bring a little secret spice cabinet with me.
[39:27.320 --> 39:28.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, uh, we'll see.
[39:28.780 --> 39:31.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe if I get involved, uh, I'll, I'll be a contender.
[39:31.580 --> 39:34.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are any, any talks that, uh, pique your curiosity?
[39:35.720 --> 39:36.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, wow.
[39:36.740 --> 39:53.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, I, I've barely had a chance to really look through all of them, but there's definitely some interesting stuff with, uh, vehicle, uh, vehicle computing and, and that kind of, uh, uh, hardware hacking and, um, gosh, there's a, there's a couple of different ones that stand out.
[39:53.120 --> 39:55.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's one on Emmy that I'm really interested in.
[39:55.280 --> 40:03.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's the, um, the Icelandic, uh, the, uh, sort of, uh, journalism haven that they're creating in, in, uh, Iceland.
[40:03.280 --> 40:03.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[40:04.200 --> 40:05.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: We've talked about this.
[40:05.320 --> 40:05.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[40:05.740 --> 40:11.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: In, in recent episodes, we've been talking about, uh, about the possibility of establishing that as a, uh, uh, journalistic, uh, haven.
[40:11.900 --> 40:13.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: I, I know Mike, you've been interested in that as well.
[40:14.660 --> 40:15.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[40:15.160 --> 40:16.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'll be really excited to learn more about it.
[40:17.140 --> 40:22.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, I know we had a representative, uh, from that at Hope, but I didn't have, uh, really much chance to speak to him.
[40:22.620 --> 40:25.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: So we'll get to learn more, uh, here at tour camp.
[40:26.360 --> 40:26.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Cool.
[40:26.840 --> 40:29.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, um, it, it, it runs from when to when?
[40:29.520 --> 40:30.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: You guys know the schedule?
[40:30.920 --> 40:32.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: The 8th through the 12th, I believe.
[40:33.420 --> 40:33.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[40:33.660 --> 40:35.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: So it starts, well, today's the 8th, right?
[40:35.300 --> 40:36.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: So it started already.
[40:37.120 --> 40:37.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[40:37.580 --> 40:38.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Today's moving.
[40:38.160 --> 40:47.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, I think they're having a bit of festivities tonight, just sort of, uh, everybody getting settled and maybe a bit of a meal, uh, everybody camping and stuff for the first time.
[40:47.940 --> 41:02.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, the first tour camp took place in Eastern Washington state, which, uh, to the surprise of many people, particularly Jason Scott, I'll never forget his, his, uh, his, uh, surprise and perplexing expression when he discovered that there was a desert,
[41:03.020 --> 41:05.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: uh, environment in, uh, in Washington state.
[41:05.160 --> 41:08.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's, that's where it took place on the side of an old missile silo.
[41:08.160 --> 41:12.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: But this is in Western Washington state and it's, it's completely different.
[41:12.240 --> 41:15.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Kyle, can you, can you explain, uh, what the environment is like over there?
[41:16.560 --> 41:19.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I can actually, uh, it's, it's much different.
[41:20.180 --> 41:23.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, Eastern Washington is very desert-like as you said.
[41:23.240 --> 41:34.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, um, in fact, that area where we were camping had a particular geologically significant past where there just happened to be volcanic ash there based on, uh, an eruption.
[41:34.460 --> 41:37.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: I believe it had something to do with St. Helens, but I'm not exactly sure.
[41:37.580 --> 41:39.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: So people looked into that after a tour camp.
[41:39.920 --> 41:45.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think the general, uh, idea is people wanted less sand and dust storms and stuff like that.
[41:45.960 --> 41:49.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: So what happened this time, I think they went out and staked out a really beautiful place.
[41:49.660 --> 41:50.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's along the coast.
[41:50.680 --> 41:51.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's on the Pacific Ocean.
[41:52.080 --> 41:59.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's in the north, uh, western tip of, uh, it's like the most northwest tip of the continental U.S.
[41:59.220 --> 42:02.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's right across the Strait of Juan de Fuca from Canada.
[42:02.680 --> 42:07.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, and it's basically the, uh, lowlands.
[42:07.560 --> 42:11.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, there's a little bit of a beach and then it sort of becomes forest.
[42:11.320 --> 42:19.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that interfaces with, uh, Olympic mountain range, which also has, um, alpine, uh, forest and, uh, rainforest.
[42:20.140 --> 42:22.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's a fair amount of walking trails.
[42:22.280 --> 42:30.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: So it's not the typical kind of beach you would imagine down in, way down in, like, uh, California or something that's just bare and sandy.
[42:30.800 --> 42:36.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: You maybe have a little bit of beach and then it immediately becomes sort of low forest and, uh, rainforest.
[42:36.700 --> 42:44.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then, uh, the Olympic mountain range, uh, extends up and there's glaciers and all kinds of, uh, interesting hiking up there.
[42:44.560 --> 42:50.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: But we're gonna be down, um, at sort of the sea level, uh, right on the beach, uh, near the Pacific Ocean.
[42:50.900 --> 42:52.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: That, that's, that's incredible.
[42:52.400 --> 42:55.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, yeah, it sounds like you're at the very northwestern tip.
[42:55.420 --> 42:57.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, you're probably pretty close to Canada, right?
[42:58.160 --> 42:58.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Absolutely.
[42:58.880 --> 42:59.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[42:59.420 --> 43:02.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, in fact, some of the projects had to get the, like, okay.
[43:03.060 --> 43:09.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, they had to get sort of permitting and, you know, there was all kinds of logistics to set up some of the projects that they're gonna have out there.
[43:10.340 --> 43:18.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, including a demonstration, you know, cell phone network and then all of that, uh, some lighting spectacles and, and different interesting stuff.
[43:19.180 --> 43:25.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, yeah, Canada is, uh, very close by and surely they'll be, uh, happy to see us, uh, enjoying ourselves.
[43:25.580 --> 43:29.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, they, they might complain about the noise, uh, and ask you to turn it down after a certain time.
[43:29.580 --> 43:30.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: They, they, they, they like to do that up there.
[43:31.100 --> 43:34.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, but, and Mike, now, is this your first time in this particular part of the country?
[43:34.760 --> 43:35.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: And what are your impressions so far?
[43:36.620 --> 43:37.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[43:37.200 --> 43:42.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I mean, I had been to Seattle once before, but never, uh, to where, wherever I am now.
[43:42.840 --> 43:53.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, and I've only been here, of course, uh, for a little while, mostly on the road, but it's, uh, it's very green and, uh, and very damp.
[43:53.200 --> 44:00.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, uh, I, I'm looking forward to seeing more of this, especially after the, you know, the summer we've been having in New York.
[44:00.820 --> 44:01.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mm hmm.
[44:01.920 --> 44:02.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, very cool.
[44:03.080 --> 44:04.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a good temperature.
[44:04.780 --> 44:08.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Although we did see some blue skies and it was sunny yesterday and stuff.
[44:08.720 --> 44:22.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: It sort of burns off towards the end of the day that the clouds and we're going to see more of that like dynamic sort of weather where it's cloudy in the morning when, when we get further to the coast, but it's, it's definitely been like a low seventies and not very humid It was a bit damp out.
[44:22.580 --> 44:25.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Like I think it rained a bit, but it's, uh, good, cool weather.
[44:25.920 --> 44:26.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: So a good day for a drive.
[44:27.100 --> 44:28.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: So this has been a heck of a journey.
[44:29.140 --> 44:31.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, like how long have you guys been traveling altogether?
[44:33.040 --> 44:34.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, today.
[44:36.640 --> 44:43.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, have any, uh, particular hijinks ensued or, uh, things that we should know about, uh, that happened on a road trip between Mike and Kyle?
[44:44.940 --> 44:47.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hey, you know, we're, we're still only halfway there.
[44:47.720 --> 44:51.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, uh, if one of us kills the other, we'll let you know about it on the next one.
[44:51.620 --> 44:52.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, okay.
[44:52.700 --> 44:55.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, so you've still got time for a madcap adventure or two.
[44:55.100 --> 44:56.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, Kyle's the one driving.
[44:56.320 --> 44:57.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, uh, keep that in mind.
[44:58.120 --> 45:01.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, that's, we, um, we did all right.
[45:01.640 --> 45:04.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: We got to the ferry a little too late for the one that we wanted.
[45:04.920 --> 45:08.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: So we waited, uh, in Seattle for a little bit, but it was nice.
[45:08.720 --> 45:10.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was low key, uh, getting a ferry.
[45:10.260 --> 45:12.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think we left around two o'clock from Seattle.
[45:12.360 --> 45:17.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: So we're, we're not even barely, uh, yeah, like halfway there as Mike had said.
[45:17.700 --> 45:19.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: So you got, you got the Mitch ferry though.
[45:19.420 --> 45:20.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I worked out.
[45:20.800 --> 45:21.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[45:21.520 --> 45:21.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[45:21.960 --> 45:22.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Definitely.
[45:22.740 --> 45:26.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, will you be racing Mitch on the highway now to, uh, to the campsite?
[45:27.360 --> 45:29.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, we're delayed because we're talking to you.
[45:29.720 --> 45:29.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: So.
[45:29.980 --> 45:35.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, well, no, no, actually, uh, I know Kyle can catch up and, uh, this is what's called a handicap.
[45:35.540 --> 45:37.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: So that, uh, actually you're evening it out.
[45:38.640 --> 45:38.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[45:38.980 --> 45:40.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think it's first on to the ferry.
[45:40.940 --> 45:43.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: So we, we were actually ahead of them when we stopped.
[45:43.420 --> 45:43.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[45:43.740 --> 45:45.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe, maybe if they pass us, we'll be right behind them.
[45:46.100 --> 45:55.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, uh, Kyle, you mentioned, you mentioned a lighting, uh, uh, spectacle, and I know that there is something involving hacker bot labs, the Seattle hacker space and lasers.
[45:55.700 --> 46:04.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: And whenever that happens, authorities are, are, you know, go on high alert, but, uh, these, these guys, uh, and, and you're part of it, you're planning something rather special, aren't you?
[46:05.200 --> 46:12.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, yeah, we're, uh, doing an installation that we actually got a grant from tour camp to do an art installation.
[46:13.100 --> 46:16.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, um, uh, as far as I know, it's going forward.
[46:16.360 --> 46:23.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: And basically there's a 24,000 milliwatt, uh, laser array that we're mounting on top of a yurt.
[46:24.620 --> 46:25.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's going to...
[46:25.940 --> 46:26.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: What is a yurt?
[46:27.260 --> 46:27.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: What is a...
[46:27.800 --> 46:33.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: ...beam, uh, 4,000, uh, well, no, uh, 4,000 feet into space.
[46:33.300 --> 46:33.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[46:33.480 --> 46:35.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Can you tell us what a yurt is for the sake of listeners?
[46:36.300 --> 46:39.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, it's sort of like a, I don't know, gurr?
[46:39.240 --> 46:41.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wait, uh, it's like a Mongolian tent.
[46:41.580 --> 46:41.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[46:41.740 --> 46:46.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: That kind of style, uh, a movable, uh, living space that's sort of round.
[46:46.940 --> 46:49.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: I slept in one of those when I was in Mongolia, in fact.
[46:49.560 --> 46:50.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, they're really cool.
[46:51.420 --> 46:51.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[46:52.080 --> 47:02.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, one of the members has one and we're basically going to be using that as a safe zone for this, uh, lighting installation that we got, uh, an art grant from tour camp for.
[47:02.360 --> 47:10.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: So it's, it's really exciting that they supported, um, HBL and, and the, um, the laser is very interesting the way it's being cooled and stuff.
[47:10.920 --> 47:12.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not using any sort of toxic gas.
[47:12.820 --> 47:27.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's using some different, um, you know, sort of cheap refrigeration technologies and, um, I don't know, it'll be a really beautiful display and, uh, everything will glow cause it's, uh, it's a 450 nanometer, uh, blue laser light.
[47:27.960 --> 47:34.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: So now you told me this yesterday and off the wall, actually, that, um, you had to get permission from the FAA, the federal aviation administration.
[47:35.520 --> 47:44.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, they gave you some, some facts and figures and the hacker space hacker bot labs actually wound up correcting those figures.
[47:44.520 --> 47:45.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is that, is that accurate?
[47:46.340 --> 47:49.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it was, it was, it was definitely the figures that were wrong.
[47:49.340 --> 47:57.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, basically they corrected the formula that the FAA uses to calculate, um, beam projections, uh, in instances like this.
[47:57.300 --> 47:57.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh boy.
[47:57.880 --> 48:00.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, yeah, I think, I don't know the exact story or the numbers.
[48:00.740 --> 48:03.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: I wasn't involved with, uh, with the filing of the paperwork.
[48:03.720 --> 48:05.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: I know the FAA doesn't like being corrected.
[48:05.920 --> 48:08.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: So hopefully, uh, they won't be offended by, by that.
[48:09.500 --> 48:09.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[48:10.100 --> 48:12.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it was, uh, it was a calculation that they'd been using.
[48:12.900 --> 48:14.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: The formula had been in use since 1994.
[48:15.000 --> 48:17.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, um, they were way off for quite some time.
[48:17.880 --> 48:18.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh no.
[48:18.600 --> 48:23.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hopefully nobody got hurt, but we've since, uh, been able to help them with their formula.
[48:23.460 --> 48:36.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think at first it was, you know, they were alarmed and thought our calculations were wrong, but our, we checked our math and apparently, um, it was their formula that was, uh, basically allowing for unsafe, uh, beam distance.
[48:36.760 --> 48:47.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Or it was making, uh, a safe beam, uh, sound much more, uh, dangerous than, or like it would go much further than it, than it would, or at a higher power than, than is ideal.
[48:47.360 --> 48:49.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Always, always check your math.
[48:49.260 --> 48:56.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to be helping just on the ground by being a spotter and making sure no planes or, uh, birds get in the way or trees.
[48:56.240 --> 49:02.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: So you're like the kid when, when you're playing street hockey that says car when there's a car coming, except you'll be saying plane.
[49:02.800 --> 49:03.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[49:03.300 --> 49:05.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I'll get a big stop button that I can turn it off.
[49:06.100 --> 49:11.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, we're always looking up at space and, and, uh, with all this curiosity stuff.
[49:11.620 --> 49:15.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: So definitely, uh, I'm suited for the job and that's basically what I'm going to do.
[49:15.960 --> 49:17.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, I can't wait to see everybody.
[49:17.820 --> 49:22.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: I can't wait to see, um, all the, all the excitement and, uh, good fun.
[49:22.860 --> 49:25.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's probably going to be ahead of us here at tour camp.
[49:25.900 --> 49:26.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[49:26.360 --> 49:32.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: I would just ask you to double check the numbers and make sure you're not aiming that thing directly at Mars because we've just left something rather expensive there.
[49:32.200 --> 49:33.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'd like you guys to not blow it up.
[49:34.440 --> 49:37.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Although if you did blow up something on Mars, I would double check.
[49:37.260 --> 49:41.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll ask them, um, when, when they're, uh, getting the lenses out and stuff.
[49:41.240 --> 49:44.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: So we'll, we'll make sure not to disrupt any of that, uh, progress.
[49:44.840 --> 49:46.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, uh, Bernie, uh, you're on the phone as well.
[49:46.680 --> 49:48.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you have any questions for our two travelers here?
[49:48.720 --> 49:55.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I was just looking at the, uh, at the tour camp.org website about all the talks that are going on there.
[49:55.160 --> 49:55.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: I wish I could go there.
[49:55.780 --> 49:57.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm just tied up here in Pennsylvania.
[49:57.580 --> 49:59.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: How do you spell tour camp.org, Bernie?
[49:59.840 --> 50:07.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's, uh, T as in tango, O-O-R-C-A-M-P.org.
[50:07.500 --> 50:07.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[50:08.100 --> 50:10.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not T-O-U-R as some people might think it's.
[50:10.180 --> 50:10.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[50:10.420 --> 50:11.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: I wonder where that goes.
[50:12.060 --> 50:13.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: I haven't checked.
[50:13.020 --> 50:14.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: I hope they registered that too.
[50:14.200 --> 50:20.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: But in any case, uh, um, it looks like a really great outdoor, uh, uh, hacker camp conference.
[50:20.700 --> 50:23.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, and, uh, they're doing stuff.
[50:23.280 --> 50:25.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: One of the things I was curious about is their Internet connectivity.
[50:26.620 --> 50:31.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, my, my, my guess is the only way they're going to be able to do that is by, by satellite.
[50:31.200 --> 50:31.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is that right?
[50:32.900 --> 50:37.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: There've been a number of rumors, but no one in the position to confirm or deny any of them.
[50:37.940 --> 50:44.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, we're as curious as anyone as to if, if there'll be Internet, and if so, how?
[50:44.460 --> 50:47.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, there'll always be some good human networking, I'm sure.
[50:48.060 --> 50:53.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I mean, every hacker conference ever has had Internet, so, uh, there's, I'm sure there's a plan.
[50:53.740 --> 50:54.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Other stuff.
[50:54.360 --> 50:56.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, we're, we're still, we're gonna have to wait and see.
[50:56.520 --> 50:57.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, it's exciting though.
[50:57.620 --> 50:59.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it, it, it must be.
[50:59.240 --> 51:02.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, uh, yeah, uh, any other, uh, questions, Bernie?
[51:02.040 --> 51:08.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, I'm just looking at the, uh, the HackerBotLabs, uh, Photonic Beam, uh, uh, art, uh, project.
[51:08.940 --> 51:12.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is 24, one to two watt, blue lasers.
[51:13.160 --> 51:15.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Twenty, two dozen powerful lasers.
[51:15.600 --> 51:20.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: A one watt laser for our listeners is capable of, uh, of, of like lighting a cigarette.
[51:20.860 --> 51:27.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, um, 24 of them, and they're gonna combine them into this, uh, massive column.
[51:28.640 --> 51:30.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, I really wish I could be there to see this.
[51:30.860 --> 51:31.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: It should be awesome.
[51:31.420 --> 51:33.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: You might not have to go there to see it.
[51:33.060 --> 51:34.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: You might be able to see it from where you are.
[51:35.240 --> 51:36.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: From what I'm hearing.
[51:36.320 --> 51:36.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's still time, Bernie.
[51:37.360 --> 51:38.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, there is still time.
[51:38.480 --> 51:39.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess, you know...
[51:39.180 --> 51:41.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: If I fly tomorrow morning, you'll, you'll make it.
[51:41.260 --> 51:41.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[51:41.640 --> 51:44.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: It lasts until Sunday, so, uh, sure, why not?
[51:45.120 --> 51:48.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, especially if you're in the western part of the country to start with.
[51:48.760 --> 51:52.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, go to tourcamp.org and, and all the details should be there.
[51:52.760 --> 51:55.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, and Kyle, make sure there are no bats that fly into the beam, okay?
[51:56.980 --> 52:01.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah, I'll, uh, work on my bat calls, and, uh, I'll make sure that they steer clear.
[52:01.660 --> 52:06.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's, that's part of my job as a spotter, and, uh, I think it's, uh, it'll work out.
[52:06.460 --> 52:10.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: You see, uh, it sounds like he's kidding, but I think he really does know bat calls.
[52:10.740 --> 52:12.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, uh, but Bernie, it sounds like you're speaking from experience.
[52:13.080 --> 52:16.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, is there something that happens if you, if, uh, you aim a laser at a bat?
[52:16.120 --> 52:22.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, they probably, well, if you aimed 24 one- to two-watt lasers at them, I'm sure they would die rapidly.
[52:23.080 --> 52:24.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, they'd probably be cooked in mid-air.
[52:25.020 --> 52:32.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, bats are wonderful creatures, they eat lots of insects, and, um, they're a declining species in North America, the various, some of the bat population.
[52:32.700 --> 52:39.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, uh, they're worth, uh, they're worth preserving, and, uh, my guess is they'll, they'll see the beam, even though they're, they're half-blind.
[52:40.120 --> 52:41.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: They'll probably steer away from the light.
[52:41.980 --> 52:43.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: They, they don't like the light.
[52:43.360 --> 52:44.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, that's a good thing.
[52:44.660 --> 52:48.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, well, I'm glad we're concerned about the bats and, uh, all the other wildlife out there.
[52:48.460 --> 52:50.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: On that subject, uh, I guess, Kyle, you'd know the answer to this.
[52:50.980 --> 52:54.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: What kind of wildlife are you guys, uh, uh, gonna experience out there?
[52:54.540 --> 52:55.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are there bears, for instance?
[52:56.860 --> 53:00.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, it, yeah, I mean, it is a, um, I mean, that's a good question.
[53:00.800 --> 53:10.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: These are some of the things you are, um, that you ought to worry about when you're packing instead of, you know, which, which album you want to listen to or that kind of thing.
[53:10.520 --> 53:12.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, yeah, I've, I've looked into it a little bit.
[53:12.300 --> 53:18.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: There is various kinds of elk and, um, and, uh, definitely bugs or something to be concerned about.
[53:19.160 --> 53:25.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bears, I don't think are going to be as big a problem, uh, especially out on the coast there, uh, near this resort.
[53:26.420 --> 53:29.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, um, I think people will be taking precautions.
[53:29.720 --> 53:30.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sasquatch, really?
[53:30.500 --> 53:30.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: No.
[53:31.960 --> 53:33.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: How do you prepare to meet an elk?
[53:35.280 --> 53:42.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you, you, you know, get your, um, uh, your, your elk procedure manual out.
[53:43.080 --> 53:43.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[53:44.060 --> 53:52.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: You, you very carefully allow the elk to go about munching whatever he's, you know, munching and you do your thing and don't be disruptive.
[53:52.320 --> 53:52.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[53:53.060 --> 53:55.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like between a deer and a, and a moose, right?
[53:55.200 --> 53:55.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was an elk.
[53:55.700 --> 53:57.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like somewhere in between.
[53:58.220 --> 53:58.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[53:58.400 --> 54:00.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: We've, we've discussed pretty much everything on this program.
[54:01.660 --> 54:01.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: A deer.
[54:02.100 --> 54:02.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[54:03.300 --> 54:03.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[54:03.820 --> 54:06.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, listen, I want to let you guys, uh, continue on, on the road.
[54:06.840 --> 54:09.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Any, any closing thoughts that you'd like to leave our listeners with?
[54:10.540 --> 54:18.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, well, um, we'll have to let you know, uh, we're not going to have a mobile phone service, but when we get online, we'll report back that we made a safe trip.
[54:18.620 --> 54:24.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, we're just really, uh, pleased to have been able to stop off and give you guys, uh, an update on our progress.
[54:24.380 --> 54:35.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we're just, uh, really helpful that people check out these kinds of events and, um, experience them themselves or they're really cool, especially to see, uh, in the U.S. so.
[54:35.460 --> 54:35.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely.
[54:36.120 --> 54:36.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'll let you know how it goes.
[54:37.100 --> 54:37.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[54:37.620 --> 54:38.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Please do.
[54:38.500 --> 54:42.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, great talking to, uh, to both, uh, you and Mike, Mike, any final words from you?
[54:43.320 --> 54:53.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, no, just one thing is, is totally not in the spirit of final words, but, but Kyle did remind me that there's supposed to be a, uh, a custom built GSM network at this camp.
[54:53.500 --> 54:54.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, so that will be exciting as well.
[54:55.440 --> 54:59.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, yeah, he mentioned that there, you're not going to have mobile phone service.
[54:59.520 --> 55:00.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, so as a GSM.
[55:01.220 --> 55:02.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: I guess we'll have our own only.
[55:03.000 --> 55:03.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[55:03.600 --> 55:04.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: We'll find out.
[55:04.300 --> 55:04.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[55:04.900 --> 55:05.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[55:05.320 --> 55:08.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it sounds like a lot of, uh, questions will be answered in, in the, uh, in the days ahead.
[55:08.760 --> 55:11.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: So best of luck to both of you and we'll be hearing back.
[55:11.900 --> 55:12.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[55:12.440 --> 55:13.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: We'll see you next week.
[55:13.700 --> 55:13.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[55:14.640 --> 55:15.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: So long.
[55:15.380 --> 55:18.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, and I guess we have time to, uh, take some phone calls.
[55:18.260 --> 55:19.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, actually we very little time.
[55:20.160 --> 55:24.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, let's, let's take maybe one or two phone calls at two on two, two zero nine, two nine hundred.
[55:24.340 --> 55:26.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you haven't already dialed the number, it's probably too late.
[55:26.800 --> 55:28.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, we have a couple of people, uh, calling in right now.
[55:29.080 --> 55:31.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, uh, let's, uh, let's take a phone call.
[55:31.100 --> 55:31.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[55:31.500 --> 55:34.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on off the hook, but speak up quickly.
[55:34.620 --> 55:36.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: I heart radio annoying.
[55:36.780 --> 55:37.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Rebel.
[55:37.200 --> 55:38.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: So good to hear your voice again.
[55:38.480 --> 55:39.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: That was pleasant.
[55:39.220 --> 55:39.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wasn't it?
[55:39.540 --> 55:39.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[55:39.900 --> 55:41.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on the, on off the hook.
[55:41.440 --> 55:42.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, you too.
[55:42.220 --> 55:42.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[55:42.500 --> 55:43.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: I haven't heard that sound in a while.
[55:44.960 --> 55:45.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[55:45.660 --> 55:46.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on off the hook.
[55:46.940 --> 55:48.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, what's up, Emmanuel?
[55:48.420 --> 55:48.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: How you doing?
[55:48.820 --> 55:49.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: What's, what's on your mind?
[55:50.320 --> 55:52.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, this is burnt kid, James Bond.
[55:52.240 --> 55:53.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Long time no talk.
[55:53.560 --> 55:58.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: I met you a bunch of times at 2600 meets back in the days.
[55:58.340 --> 56:03.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: And also, uh, hope, uh, I just wanted to tell you a little more.
[56:03.760 --> 56:10.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: More about what, um, lines are, what provides dial tone and what doesn't provide dial tone.
[56:11.120 --> 56:14.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: Cause there was a discussion about that last week.
[56:14.000 --> 56:15.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you're interested, if not, it's cool too.
[56:16.160 --> 56:17.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, can, can you do it in 30 seconds?
[56:18.260 --> 56:18.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[56:18.960 --> 56:19.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.
[56:19.660 --> 56:20.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's perfectly fine.
[56:20.980 --> 56:22.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: And turn on the radio too.
[56:23.020 --> 56:24.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, I don't have my radio on right now.
[56:24.640 --> 56:24.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[56:24.760 --> 56:25.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Then tell that person to stop talking.
[56:26.040 --> 56:26.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was in the background.
[56:28.320 --> 56:29.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you have 25 seconds.
[56:29.860 --> 56:32.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, so yeah, uh, please, please make it fast.
[56:32.360 --> 56:33.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[56:33.520 --> 56:34.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Potts, Plano telephones.
[56:35.120 --> 56:35.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[56:35.620 --> 56:37.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Central office provides, uh, dial tone.
[56:38.880 --> 56:41.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, PRIs, CAS trunks, et cetera.
[56:41.960 --> 56:47.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, LOIP, uh, PBX basically provides, uh, the dial tone.
[56:47.180 --> 56:51.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: So it's a, um, computer emulated dial tone.
[56:52.160 --> 56:52.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[56:52.660 --> 56:56.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's, that's helpful information and, uh, good hearing, uh, good hearing from you.
[56:56.140 --> 57:00.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I hope things have, have gone well in, uh, in, in the years since, uh, you spoke to us last.
[57:00.720 --> 57:02.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, see if we can fit one more call in.
[57:02.860 --> 57:03.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, good evening.
[57:03.340 --> 57:04.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on off the hook.
[57:05.820 --> 57:08.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Speak up or hold your peace.
[57:08.400 --> 57:08.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[57:08.580 --> 57:08.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let's try this one.
[57:09.000 --> 57:09.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[57:09.360 --> 57:09.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on off the hook.
[57:11.500 --> 57:11.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello.
[57:12.080 --> 57:12.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[57:12.320 --> 57:12.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[57:12.740 --> 57:13.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Very quickly.
[57:14.260 --> 57:14.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[57:14.600 --> 57:20.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, you are a true American patriot in every sense of the word.
[57:20.180 --> 57:20.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was at your home.
[57:21.020 --> 57:22.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I hope you mean that in a good way.
[57:22.740 --> 57:23.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Fantastic.
[57:24.140 --> 57:24.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[57:24.360 --> 57:25.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: You say you were at the conference?
[57:26.240 --> 57:26.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[57:26.840 --> 57:26.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Great.
[57:26.920 --> 57:28.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was at the HOPE conference.
[57:28.800 --> 57:32.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and, uh, I get to meet you, Bernie S, a lot of other great people.
[57:32.520 --> 57:36.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: One thing, um, I've been using Tor for years now.
[57:36.220 --> 57:36.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[57:36.440 --> 57:58.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: I found out about it through your show, and I don't know if anybody else has noticed this, but when I, uh, come out with an exit node from Canada, I can get all kinds of information about what's going on in our government here that you can't get if you just do Google through a regular,
[57:58.460 --> 57:59.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: uh, connection.
[58:00.000 --> 58:00.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Interesting.
[58:00.840 --> 58:03.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know if anybody's ever, anybody else has run into that.
[58:03.700 --> 58:06.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I, I've, I've, people are nodding their heads, so I, I imagine so.
[58:07.120 --> 58:17.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, unfortunately, we don't have time to go into it right now, but please, uh, if you have a chance, write to us with, uh, further details, oth@2600.com, and we'd love to, uh, talk about that some more.
[58:17.560 --> 58:21.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, we'd still like to get your reports from, uh, HOPE if you were there and you haven't gotten in touch with us.
[58:21.620 --> 58:23.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let us know what your experiences were like.
[58:23.180 --> 58:26.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, if you posted photos, blog posts, anything, um, send us a link.
[58:26.400 --> 58:27.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: We'd love to take a look at that.
[58:27.120 --> 58:34.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, if, if you want to, um, uh, send something directly to the HOPE people, uh, pictures or, or anything like that, HOPE at HOPE.net is the address for that.
[58:34.660 --> 58:37.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Our address here at the radio station, oth@2600.com.
[58:38.160 --> 58:42.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Gonna go out with, uh, speaking of patriots, uh, these are true patriots as well.
[58:43.160 --> 58:49.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, you might've heard about this in, uh, international news about this band in, uh, in Russia called Pussy Riot.
[58:49.600 --> 58:54.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, they basically made a music video inside a church, criticizing Vladimir Putin.
[58:54.900 --> 58:56.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, they're in prison.
[58:56.680 --> 58:59.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're facing long prison terms just for expressing themselves.
[59:00.260 --> 59:02.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is what true courage sounds like.
[59:02.420 --> 59:02.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good night.