Off The Hook - 2012-10-17

[00:33.160 --> 00:35.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York.
[00:36.020 --> 00:38.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: The time is 7 o'clock time once again for Off The Hook.
[00:43.220 --> 00:45.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: The telephone keeps ringing.
[00:45.500 --> 00:47.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: So I ripped it off the wall.
[00:48.680 --> 00:50.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: I cut myself while shaving.
[00:51.160 --> 00:53.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now I can't make a call.
[00:53.840 --> 00:55.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: We couldn't get much worse.
[00:58.740 --> 01:00.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: Bon diddly bon for the best.
[01:00.440 --> 01:01.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's back the worst.
[01:02.060 --> 01:03.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: I hope that's understood.
[01:04.100 --> 01:04.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: Bon diddly bon.
[02:26.020 --> 02:27.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the very giving to everybody.
[02:27.400 --> 02:28.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: The program is Off The Hook.
[02:28.880 --> 02:29.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
[02:29.800 --> 02:30.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Joined tonight by Mike.
[02:31.240 --> 02:31.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi.
[02:31.400 --> 02:32.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Rob T.
[02:32.500 --> 02:32.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Firefly.
[02:33.040 --> 02:33.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good evening.
[02:34.000 --> 02:34.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Jim.
[02:34.580 --> 02:34.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello.
[02:35.300 --> 02:36.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: And Bernie S.
[02:36.900 --> 02:38.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:38.980 --> 02:41.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: The one week I don't say Philadelphia and that's where you happen to be.
[02:41.540 --> 02:42.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, great.
[02:42.400 --> 02:43.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to Philadelphia then.
[02:44.720 --> 02:45.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good for a while.
[02:45.340 --> 02:46.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well we're back.
[02:46.320 --> 02:47.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: We were away last week.
[02:47.860 --> 02:49.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: We were all out gallivanting together.
[02:49.380 --> 02:51.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: But now we're back in the studio.
[02:52.040 --> 02:52.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Back to business.
[02:53.560 --> 02:55.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it's another fundraising show.
[02:55.120 --> 02:58.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: But it's going to be a lot of fun because we have a special guest and all kinds of fun things to talk about.
[02:58.500 --> 03:05.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think people are going to find it very hard to resist calling in to support this place when they hear the amazing things that we're going to be talking about.
[03:06.040 --> 03:07.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, how could you resist in general?
[03:07.320 --> 03:08.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: You get to support the station.
[03:08.740 --> 03:09.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: People do.
[03:09.200 --> 03:09.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: People do resist.
[03:10.300 --> 03:12.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've met some resistors and it's hard.
[03:12.360 --> 03:14.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how to get into their heads and figure it out.
[03:14.280 --> 03:18.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, people say, yeah, you know, I'd like to call in, but I didn't.
[03:18.720 --> 03:19.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we'll take it up.
[03:19.980 --> 03:21.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's when I just don't get it.
[03:21.880 --> 03:22.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't understand.
[03:22.380 --> 03:23.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll take it up later.
[03:23.520 --> 03:26.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: But one of the things we'll be offering is a method for measuring resistance.
[03:26.640 --> 03:27.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: So maybe that'll help.
[03:28.260 --> 03:29.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, way to give it away.
[03:29.740 --> 03:30.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, fine.
[03:30.560 --> 03:30.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[03:31.440 --> 03:33.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: So now you have a bit of a clue there.
[03:33.180 --> 03:33.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, Mike.
[03:33.980 --> 03:39.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: But we also have some breaking news of various sorts, a few bits of breaking news.
[03:39.380 --> 03:42.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, breaking over the last couple of weeks because we weren't here last week.
[03:42.780 --> 03:51.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, we, uh, had a show, uh, a few weeks ago about the, uh, the, um, uh, Tesla Museum on Long Island, the proposed Tesla Museum.
[03:52.360 --> 03:56.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, well, that dream is one big step closer to reality.
[03:57.000 --> 03:59.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, the dream of, of 16 years.
[03:59.180 --> 04:05.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's amazing too, because, you know, as we mentioned on the show, I just went out there, uh, with Kyle like a couple of, um, months ago.
[04:05.420 --> 04:07.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: We just wandering around saying, wouldn't this be a good idea?
[04:07.400 --> 04:10.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then we found out that these guys have been trying to do this for 16 years.
[04:10.640 --> 04:15.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: And not only that, they succeeded in doing it within the next couple of weeks or a couple of months at least.
[04:16.560 --> 04:22.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, that dream of 16 years came true for science enthusiasts, uh, one Friday ago, I believe.
[04:22.600 --> 04:22.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[04:22.700 --> 04:39.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: When they struck a deal to buy a dilapidated estate on Long Island and transform it into a museum and educational memorial to Nikola Tesla, an eccentric genius, according to the New York Times, who lit the world with alternating current, but died penniless in the New Yorker hotel,
[04:39.720 --> 04:41.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: within sight of the Hotel Pennsylvania.
[04:42.720 --> 04:43.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: But no, it's true.
[04:43.960 --> 04:44.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's true.
[04:44.660 --> 04:45.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's inside.
[04:45.500 --> 04:46.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, within sight.
[04:46.560 --> 04:47.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, within sight.
[04:47.160 --> 04:47.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[04:47.380 --> 04:48.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can see it from there.
[04:48.620 --> 04:55.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, well, I'm just saying it's, it's, it's, that's where it is for people who have, uh, come to New York to, uh, to be at the hope conferences.
[04:55.740 --> 04:56.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, he, he died.
[04:57.000 --> 04:57.000]  Right.
[04:57.060 --> 05:00.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's, it's amazing too, because he keeps popping up in various places.
[05:00.420 --> 05:02.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, Long Island, which is where I'm from.
[05:02.540 --> 05:12.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's where he had, uh, uh, this experimental building, this estate, um, and then, uh, um, dying penniless in a hotel with inside of Hotel Pennsylvania.
[05:12.120 --> 05:17.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then over in, um, in, in Serbia, uh, where he's from, uh, where I spent some time.
[05:17.480 --> 05:19.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's, um, it's interesting.
[05:19.460 --> 05:27.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, the Tesla bills that we've been handing out to people, um, because in, in Serbia, his face adorns, uh, money over there.
[05:27.260 --> 05:28.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's, it's really pretty cool.
[05:29.140 --> 05:35.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, anyway, the overgrown 16-acre site, which is in Shoreham, uh, features his only surviving workshop.
[05:36.240 --> 05:48.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: The crumbling brick laboratory was designed by Tesla's friend, Stanford White, a celebrated architect who drew up plans in Manhattan for the Washington Arch, as well as, uh, neoclassical gems like the Century Club.
[05:49.000 --> 05:51.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's the Washington Square Arch, or?
[05:51.460 --> 05:52.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: They just say the Washington Arch.
[05:53.000 --> 05:56.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you read the New York Times and you said the Washington Arch, what would you think you mean?
[05:56.380 --> 05:57.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't know.
[05:57.360 --> 05:57.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[05:57.500 --> 05:58.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, is there an arch in Washington?
[05:58.980 --> 05:59.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think there is.
[05:59.840 --> 06:00.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: There is.
[06:00.280 --> 06:01.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a big city.
[06:01.440 --> 06:03.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: It could be full of arches for all I know.
[06:03.140 --> 06:06.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know of an arch, unless it's a person named Arch in Washington.
[06:06.820 --> 06:08.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, I don't know of an arch.
[06:08.640 --> 06:09.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: And maybe... You know what?
[06:09.580 --> 06:10.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Our listeners know.
[06:10.440 --> 06:11.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Send us an email.
[06:11.120 --> 06:12.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: oth@2600.com.
[06:12.600 --> 06:15.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: The state of Washington perhaps has an arch somewhere, but I don't think that's what they are.
[06:15.180 --> 06:18.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're probably talking about the Washington Square Arch, and somebody just left out the word square.
[06:19.040 --> 06:26.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, the, uh, Agfa Corporation, which owns the heavily wooded site and once operated a factory there, turned it into a Superfund site, in fact.
[06:27.160 --> 06:28.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, it's not a good thing when you do that.
[06:29.100 --> 06:37.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, they agreed to sell the estate to the Tesla enthusiast for an undisclosed sum after they succeeded in raising $1.4 million through a web campaign.
[06:37.620 --> 06:42.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, it's, and the property had been listed at 1.6 million, but that was an amazing campaign.
[06:42.820 --> 06:48.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, they basically just, um, uh, started, um, um, kind of like a Kickstarter thing.
[06:48.660 --> 06:49.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't Kickstarter.
[06:49.420 --> 06:50.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: It was, uh... Indiegogo.
[06:50.760 --> 06:51.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Indiegogo.
[06:51.460 --> 06:56.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we did mention on the radio program when they were on that they had some sort of a matching grant from the state.
[06:56.760 --> 07:00.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: So they may have had more than 1.4 million dollars, uh, to spend.
[07:00.720 --> 07:01.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's, that's possible.
[07:01.760 --> 07:02.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's, that's entirely possible.
[07:02.760 --> 07:09.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it, it, it drew the attention of the, the artist of, uh, Oatmeal, the, uh, the, um, um, um, Matthew Inman, the Oatmeal.
[07:09.560 --> 07:09.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[07:10.340 --> 07:12.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, and that led to so many people.
[07:12.980 --> 07:17.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: The power of the net, you know, when you get passion like that, all these people were contributing money.
[07:17.900 --> 07:22.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: And before they knew it, they were well above what they were, uh, hoping to get.
[07:22.360 --> 07:24.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, uh, it's, it's, it's really amazing.
[07:24.400 --> 07:25.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: So that's actually going to happen.
[07:25.800 --> 07:27.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Or at least it's, it sure looks like it's going to happen.
[07:27.880 --> 07:28.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: They've, they bought the property.
[07:29.460 --> 07:37.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, and hopefully now, um, Friends of Science East is renaming itself the Tesla Science Center at Wardenclyffe.
[07:37.680 --> 07:40.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that, that was, uh, Tesla's name for the site during its heyday.
[07:41.060 --> 07:43.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and we're going back to 1903.
[07:43.340 --> 07:49.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's when, um, uh, he erected a wooden tower that rose more than 18 stories above the surrounding farms.
[07:49.020 --> 07:51.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Really got some attention from the farmers out there at that point.
[07:52.400 --> 07:56.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, and one night, one night it fired bolts of electricity into the sky.
[07:56.100 --> 08:00.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: And boy, that must've been a fun occasion out there on Long Island in 1903.
[08:00.440 --> 08:00.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead, Bernie.
[08:01.240 --> 08:11.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: Just want to bring people to grab their minds around this 18 story tower, which he, uh, was going to transmit electricity wirelessly to, uh, places many miles away.
[08:11.940 --> 08:13.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's about the height of the Hotel Pennsylvania.
[08:14.680 --> 08:16.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: That, that size of his tower.
[08:16.620 --> 08:19.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: Can you imagine building something like a wooden tower that high?
[08:19.780 --> 08:24.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: And if you look online for Wardenclyffe tower, or just look up Tesla tower, you can see pictures of this.
[08:24.580 --> 08:25.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: It was really amazing architecture.
[08:26.300 --> 08:32.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: It just looks like something appropriately out of a science fiction, uh, uh, movie or something.
[08:32.580 --> 08:36.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, you know, Tesla's dream of beaming electricity wirelessly around the world.
[08:36.360 --> 08:39.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: It was, so anybody could have electricity without running wires to the house.
[08:39.700 --> 08:41.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: It was never, never fulfilled.
[08:41.180 --> 08:43.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Not because the technology wasn't sound, apparently.
[08:43.460 --> 08:49.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's because, uh, the, uh, the big power, uh, moguls back in the day figured out there's no way to measure it.
[08:49.860 --> 08:51.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: So we can't have this.
[08:51.220 --> 08:56.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: So let's, let's not have wireless power distribution because we can't build people that way.
[08:56.840 --> 09:01.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just look forward to us having a, uh, sort of company field trip out to this thing when it's, when it's built.
[09:01.460 --> 09:03.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, uh, I'm, I'm looking forward to the next step.
[09:03.880 --> 09:04.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're not going to help build it?
[09:05.240 --> 09:12.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I intend on going out there and starting to, uh, rake leaves and, and, and carry boulders, whatever needs to be done to get this thing going.
[09:12.660 --> 09:13.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think we all need to do that.
[09:14.200 --> 09:15.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, and this is, this is global.
[09:15.640 --> 09:17.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is not just something that's local.
[09:17.160 --> 09:23.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: There, there, this is a, a global, um, uh, tribute, uh, to Nikola Tesla that's going to be, uh, built here.
[09:23.580 --> 09:30.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, and it's just, it's great that it's happening within sight of, of where we are and, uh, in our lifetime that something like this happens.
[09:30.740 --> 09:41.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, if you're hoping to see, uh, the 18 story wooden tower, uh, well, uh, I'm sorry to disappoint, but, um, the, um, the owners in 1917 had the giant tower blown up and sold for scrap.
[09:41.360 --> 09:50.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, and, uh, today the brick laboratory is the main Tesla relic, but it's still a relic and it's still something, uh, worth preserving and we're seeing and, and building something new as.
[09:50.360 --> 10:02.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, and the new owners, they, they plan, they, they, one of the things they hope to do is, uh, next to the science, uh, museum there for the Tesla, they want to, uh, build a, uh, uh, smaller scale reproduction of that tower.
[10:02.820 --> 10:06.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: Obviously they couldn't get the zoning to build an 18 story tower there.
[10:06.500 --> 10:09.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, uh, if you recall, listeners recall, we had our guest on there.
[10:09.700 --> 10:11.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: She said, uh, they planned to do that.
[10:11.300 --> 10:13.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: And maybe they could still shoot electricity up into the air.
[10:13.820 --> 10:14.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: We can always hope.
[10:14.940 --> 10:15.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'd like to see that.
[10:16.020 --> 10:17.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: I sure would too.
[10:17.740 --> 10:18.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, okay.
[10:18.520 --> 10:21.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, other news, and this is, uh, important as well.
[10:21.220 --> 10:29.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, you might, uh, recall the case of Gary McKinnon, uh, who the United States has been trying to extradite for hacking into military computers over the years.
[10:30.080 --> 10:32.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, his extradition has been blocked.
[10:32.900 --> 10:34.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: I believe this, uh, this happened yesterday.
[10:35.340 --> 10:47.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, he, uh, will not be extradited to the U.S. according to, uh, British home secretary, Theresa May, uh, the 46 year old McKinnon admitted accessing U.S. government computers, but claims he was looking for evidence of UFOs.
[10:47.900 --> 10:51.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: And he's been fighting extradition since 2002.
[10:52.080 --> 11:01.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: The home secretary told MPs, there was no doubt that Mr. McKinnon was seriously ill and the extradition warrant against him should be withdrawn.
[11:02.260 --> 11:06.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, Mrs. May said the whole issue, um, uh, she had to consider was his human rights.
[11:07.380 --> 11:14.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, and basically it's now up to, um, uh, British authorities if they're going to charge him with a crime in that particular country.
[11:14.420 --> 11:28.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now this, um, we, we've had, uh, Julia O'Dwyer on the show a couple of times talking about her son, Richard, uh, who is facing extradition as well for, uh, for a totally different matter for, uh, having a website that linked to, uh, allegedly pirated movies,
[11:28.860 --> 11:33.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: um, not hosted on his own site, but just linking to sites that, uh, access this information.
[11:33.800 --> 11:35.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, this is different.
[11:35.780 --> 11:44.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, he's, uh, Gary McKinnon, uh, is not being extradited because, uh, they are actually worried that he would kill himself if he, uh, was, uh, uh, thrown into a U.S.
[11:44.520 --> 11:44.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: prison.
[11:45.240 --> 11:51.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and, um, the, the concern is not the same, uh, for Richard O'Dwyer, but, um, I don't know.
[11:51.640 --> 11:57.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bernie, do you think this is, uh, possibly a precedent of some sort that the British are actually standing up to the U.S.
[11:57.720 --> 12:01.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: and saying, no, we're not going to just follow your orders and extradite whoever you want?
[12:01.900 --> 12:03.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: I, uh, I certainly hope so.
[12:03.660 --> 12:07.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, the, the 2003 extradition act, which is like a treaty between the U.S.
[12:07.820 --> 12:10.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: and the U.K., kind of a one-sided treaty, as we discussed on the show.
[12:10.760 --> 12:11.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: It basically means the U.K.
[12:12.580 --> 12:14.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: gets to, uh, the U.S.
[12:14.160 --> 12:16.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: gets to have all these, uh, British citizens extradited to the U.S.
[12:17.040 --> 12:20.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: to be prosecuted and imprisoned here, but it doesn't work the other way around really well.
[12:21.480 --> 12:25.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, so there has never been an exception to the 2003 extradition act.
[12:25.400 --> 12:31.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: And this Gary McKinnon case is the first time since 2003 that this, uh, that someone, that the U.K.
[12:31.880 --> 12:34.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: government has said, no, we're not going to extradite this person.
[12:34.460 --> 12:36.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: So it's a precedent in that respect.
[12:36.840 --> 12:50.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm hoping it bodes well for, uh, for, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Dwyer, uh, Dwyer, who, uh, who, uh, who's also, uh, awaiting extradition to, uh, to the U.S.
[12:50.240 --> 12:53.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: and doesn't want to come here for good reasons, because what he did in the U.K.
[12:53.380 --> 12:58.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: is, uh, not only not illegal, it's just not illegal in the U.K., and he hasn't been to the U.S.
[12:58.140 --> 12:58.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: to do these things.
[12:59.060 --> 13:00.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: So it's a weird case.
[13:00.640 --> 13:03.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm hoping he doesn't get extradited because of this, but we'll see.
[13:04.580 --> 13:11.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just hoping that it, uh, it works in a more speedy manner for Richard O'Dwyer as well, because McKinnon now has been fighting this for what, 10 years, 11 years, something like that.
[13:12.520 --> 13:16.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, it, it's just, uh, ridiculous to think of somebody like anyone listening.
[13:16.660 --> 13:23.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Imagine trying to fight for, for your own right to not be extradited to some foreign country, um, for 10 years, 10 years of your life.
[13:23.200 --> 13:24.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's, that's pretty insane.
[13:24.380 --> 13:30.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, I think, I think, uh, I think it ended well, and I think it ended in a, in a fashion that might set a good precedent.
[13:30.800 --> 13:34.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: And also just imagine, uh, the, the scariness of it.
[13:34.740 --> 13:44.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: If, um, if you're a hacker out there and you're playing around on the Internet and you hack into something, say in, uh, pick a country, the United States, another country, not our country, for God's sake.
[13:44.200 --> 13:44.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Panama.
[13:44.640 --> 13:45.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: How about, how about Iran?
[13:45.900 --> 13:48.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Why do you have to pick Iran every single time, Bernie?
[13:48.860 --> 13:49.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uzbekistan.
[13:49.220 --> 13:51.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because it's exactly what the United States government did.
[13:51.220 --> 13:52.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's do Uzbekistan.
[13:52.400 --> 13:53.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Haven't they been through enough though?
[13:54.320 --> 13:55.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, can we, can we pick something else?
[13:56.260 --> 13:56.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Panama?
[13:56.820 --> 13:57.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, Panama.
[13:57.780 --> 13:58.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Why not?
[13:58.400 --> 13:59.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't that a state though?
[13:59.480 --> 14:00.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then the U.S.
[14:00.320 --> 14:01.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: like annex Panama?
[14:01.460 --> 14:02.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, not an, they gave it back.
[14:03.080 --> 14:03.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Did they really?
[14:04.280 --> 14:04.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Did they really?
[14:05.100 --> 14:06.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: They claimed to have given it back.
[14:06.300 --> 14:11.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: I, you know, if I had known we were going to talk about Panamanian history, on this program, I would have brushed up.
[14:11.480 --> 14:11.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Botswana.
[14:11.840 --> 14:13.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's, let's, let's pick an interesting country.
[14:13.260 --> 14:13.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Botswana.
[14:14.020 --> 14:27.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's imagine that somebody out there hacks into a computer system in Botswana and, uh, maybe they don't even know they're doing it, but they, they are able to get in or they're able to simply scan and find information and, and they get, I don't know,
[14:27.360 --> 14:38.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: a telegram or some kind of angry phone call or something demanding that they be extradited to Botswana and the United States just says, yep, go ahead, uh, have a nice trip, uh, and see you in 20 to 30 years or whatever.
[14:39.140 --> 14:40.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: We don't tend to do that.
[14:40.920 --> 14:42.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, I don't think we do that at all.
[14:42.380 --> 14:49.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: And if we did, our citizens would be a bit concerned, despite the fact that yes, somebody hacked into the Botswana power authority or whatever.
[14:50.260 --> 14:54.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, it's, um, it's not how you deal with alleged crimes.
[14:54.920 --> 14:57.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: You, you charge people in their home countries.
[14:57.120 --> 15:02.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: You don't simply ship them off to, uh, whatever country demands that you do so.
[15:02.160 --> 15:11.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm sure there are lots of countries that would like to have our citizens exported to them so they could, uh, um, question them and torture them and all kinds of things like that.
[15:11.800 --> 15:22.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm, I'm sure there's, there's a whole line of countries that would like to do that, but, uh, the United States doesn't agree to it and other countries shouldn't agree to it when the United States is the one requesting this.
[15:22.460 --> 15:27.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think, uh, maybe it's just because the United States is so big and powerful that countries feel compelled to do that.
[15:27.840 --> 15:28.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[15:28.060 --> 15:33.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I would, I would postulate that the most law abiding American And in this country does at least half a dozen things a day.
[15:33.200 --> 15:34.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: That would be illegal somewhere else.
[15:35.240 --> 15:41.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, do you want to be subject to some other countries' laws just because, well, they've got a law that's different.
[15:41.840 --> 15:43.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: They want to punish you for it.
[15:43.520 --> 15:43.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[15:43.980 --> 15:45.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that's what should happen.
[15:45.200 --> 15:56.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe other countries should go and charge everybody in the United States with various crimes constantly and demand that we extradite almost everybody just so that we can see how ridiculous this whole thing is.
[15:56.060 --> 16:01.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, we are optimistic that Richard O'Dwyer case will end happily.
[16:01.320 --> 16:06.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: But for that to happen, we have to constantly be vigilant and pay attention and update people.
[16:06.820 --> 16:10.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't believe there's anything new to report on that particular case, but we are certainly watching it.
[16:10.840 --> 16:13.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, of course, Gary McKinnon case will still go on, just not in this country.
[16:14.060 --> 16:17.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, yeah, it's insane that it took 10 years to get to this point.
[16:17.520 --> 16:20.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: But sometimes you have to fight for a long time to get justice.
[16:21.420 --> 16:22.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, Julian Assange.
[16:22.980 --> 16:26.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, Julian Assange in the news still yet again.
[16:27.180 --> 16:31.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: I understand that Mr. Assange has met with Lady Gaga.
[16:33.380 --> 16:33.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Really?
[16:34.100 --> 16:34.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yes.
[16:34.860 --> 16:36.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is what we're discussing?
[16:36.240 --> 16:37.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's a news item.
[16:37.860 --> 16:40.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's something worthwhile now, what they discussed.
[16:40.160 --> 16:42.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who else has Lady Gaga met with in the past two weeks?
[16:42.580 --> 16:43.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: We don't know that either.
[16:43.880 --> 16:44.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's a lot we don't know.
[16:44.480 --> 16:45.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: We should investigate.
[16:45.420 --> 16:46.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we will.
[16:46.620 --> 16:56.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so apparently the two of them met, and it's baffled authorities as to what they could have been discussing and talking about.
[16:57.220 --> 16:58.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: But mostly...
[16:58.100 --> 17:01.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: At the Ecuadorian embassy, we must remind our listeners.
[17:01.340 --> 17:02.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, she didn't take him out for pizza.
[17:02.720 --> 17:04.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, that would be a bad idea.
[17:05.040 --> 17:07.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, she ordered in or something.
[17:08.580 --> 17:09.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so...
[17:09.500 --> 17:11.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: But another thing that's kind of...
[17:11.680 --> 17:13.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, not really related to this, but also in the news.
[17:13.560 --> 17:25.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Those people who put up the money for Julian, his bail, they're being ordered to pay $150,000.
[17:25.940 --> 17:28.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, the deadline has already passed.
[17:28.420 --> 17:34.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're the ones being penalized because Assange basically jumped bail and took refuge in Ecuador's embassy.
[17:35.700 --> 17:41.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, the guarantors include Nobel Prize-winning biologist John Sulston.
[17:41.700 --> 17:46.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're liable for the entire amount that they pledged.
[17:46.700 --> 17:47.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they were...
[17:47.640 --> 17:49.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Actually, they're given until November 6th to pay up.
[17:50.240 --> 18:04.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just think that's really kind of bizarre to see that happen where these people put up money in good faith and now they're being held liable for even more money and not getting the money that they put up back.
[18:04.740 --> 18:06.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: What a bizarre, unusual case.
[18:06.960 --> 18:13.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just take that as, you know, as our regular listeners know, Julian Assange met with us about two years ago.
[18:13.720 --> 18:15.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now Lady Gaga is getting around to it.
[18:15.320 --> 18:16.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think she's just trying to be cool like us.
[18:17.000 --> 18:20.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, it wouldn't be the first time that people follow in our footsteps.
[18:21.360 --> 18:23.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bernie, I believe you had a suggestion for Lady Gaga.
[18:24.200 --> 18:24.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: Did I?
[18:24.800 --> 18:26.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, make it clean.
[18:26.220 --> 18:30.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, as far as helping out with Julian.
[18:31.580 --> 18:39.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, I thought, you know, she probably makes that much money, $150,000 every like 10 minutes in her income stream.
[18:39.680 --> 18:47.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it would be a nice gesture for her to pay Julian Assange's bail so all these friends of his aren't left on the hook.
[18:47.600 --> 18:56.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it would be a drop in the bucket for her, I think, and as opposed to just visiting money or getting publicity out of it, because she looks all like cool and hip for visiting him.
[18:56.520 --> 18:59.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: But hey, she could, she could, it would be nothing for her.
[18:59.980 --> 19:00.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think she should do that.
[19:00.940 --> 19:04.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm usually loathe to suggest how people spend their money.
[19:04.180 --> 19:09.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: But in this particular case, I think that it would be good for her, be good for him, be good for everybody.
[19:09.500 --> 19:10.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that's what they discussed.
[19:10.840 --> 19:11.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Who knows?
[19:11.920 --> 19:17.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: But certainly, I would imagine the people that put up the money in the first place aren't too happy about the way things have turned.
[19:18.260 --> 19:29.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, in order to keep good relations with people who have you back in situations like this, yeah, any option should be explored because they should not be left holding the bag.
[19:30.240 --> 19:30.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[19:30.820 --> 19:32.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe Lady Gaga will take that advice.
[19:32.540 --> 19:32.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see.
[19:34.060 --> 19:34.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[19:34.480 --> 19:38.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's pretty much it as far as updates on news, things going on.
[19:38.520 --> 19:40.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Any other updates that people want to add?
[19:41.040 --> 19:42.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: The Pirate Bay is in the cloud now.
[19:43.140 --> 19:43.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[19:43.440 --> 19:44.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: The Pirate Bay is in the...
[19:44.600 --> 19:47.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I did see that story go whizzing by.
[19:47.720 --> 19:49.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I want to devote more time to it.
[19:49.580 --> 19:52.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: But give us a brief synoption of what it is that they've done.
[19:53.060 --> 20:06.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Basically, the Pirate Bay have taken their website and instead of storing it on one server that could get raided and shut down and so on, they've stored it now on multiple cloud-based servers all over the world, apparently, according to them.
[20:06.580 --> 20:10.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: So now if one of them gets shut down, the others will immediately take over.
[20:10.520 --> 20:13.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's much more of a fluid thing.
[20:13.020 --> 20:18.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's now not something that anybody with the power could shut down by just going into one place and raiding it.
[20:18.520 --> 20:19.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: I saw their description.
[20:20.420 --> 20:21.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's very impressive.
[20:22.060 --> 20:30.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, I think it could serve as a model for anybody who wants to keep things secure and safe from authorities.
[20:30.540 --> 20:35.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm a little dubious as to whether or not it's that simple, whether it is going to be that secure.
[20:36.780 --> 20:45.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Basically, putting things in the cloud has often been seen as kind of giving it up, giving it to some other entity and losing control of it yourself.
[20:46.100 --> 20:57.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: If there is a way to solve that and have it so that that actually strengthens it, and if it goes down in one place, it automatically goes up in another, and that the entities don't know where the next one is.
[20:57.100 --> 20:59.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's all encrypted and protected that way.
[21:00.340 --> 21:00.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Then that's great.
[21:00.980 --> 21:04.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a wonderful step, but I'm not yet convinced.
[21:04.720 --> 21:06.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: So the model they're using is kind of interesting.
[21:06.780 --> 21:18.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: They have their own load balancer, which is the server that people on the Internet actually talk to, and they still have that, their own physical hardware somewhere.
[21:18.500 --> 21:26.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then that load balancer, all it does is forward the requests onto their servers, and supposedly all that is encrypted, so there's no way to know where those are.
[21:27.600 --> 21:34.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: But the authorities could still seize the load balancer, I guess, if they come up with a good enough excuse.
[21:34.560 --> 21:35.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think there was...
[21:36.880 --> 21:41.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: They point out what would happen if that would occur, if they were to take the load balancer.
[21:41.240 --> 21:42.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, they can get another one, of course.
[21:42.900 --> 21:44.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's some kind of backup system.
[21:44.380 --> 21:48.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: It seems very well thought out, and I would like to see if it actually works in practice.
[21:48.640 --> 21:50.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: And if it does, that would be a tremendous achievement.
[21:50.960 --> 21:58.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, the Pirate Bay has always been sort of at the forefront of taking the load off themselves and putting it out there for basically the community or the cloud to support.
[21:59.060 --> 22:05.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: They, a while ago, stopped using their own BitTorrent tracker, and were just indexing torrents that were on other public trackers.
[22:07.100 --> 22:11.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: And so, like, that sort of thing, it gets more into the nuts and bolts of how a torrent works.
[22:11.200 --> 22:25.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: But basically, they've been slowly sort of offloading the risk and the effort that goes into running this thing onto the users, basically, and spread out in a way that it doesn't inconvenience to anyone, and it keeps the site up there for people who want it.
[22:25.380 --> 22:32.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, if I know how authorities react to certain things, they're going to say, okay, so al-Qaeda's going to do this, and how do we stop them?
[22:33.120 --> 22:36.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're going to try and apply that to everybody across the board.
[22:36.560 --> 22:39.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Does anybody have any prediction as to what the reaction is going to be?
[22:39.620 --> 22:40.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're going to...
[22:40.360 --> 22:46.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: The authorities are going to pretend to be al-Qaeda, and I don't know what their next move is, but that seems to be their strategy.
[22:46.740 --> 22:48.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're going to pretend to be al-Qaeda?
[22:48.180 --> 22:48.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what they do.
[22:49.360 --> 22:51.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, we can get into that some other show, but...
[22:51.500 --> 22:52.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's in the news today.
[22:53.100 --> 22:54.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: The authorities are pretending to be al-Qaeda.
[22:54.920 --> 22:58.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, they duped some idiot into pretending to bomb the Fed.
[22:58.700 --> 23:01.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, duping some idiot is not really that hard to do.
[23:01.660 --> 23:04.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's the FBI's number one strategy these days.
[23:04.960 --> 23:05.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[23:05.620 --> 23:05.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[23:05.980 --> 23:09.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, regardless, we're going to focus more attention on that because that is definitely a big story.
[23:09.700 --> 23:11.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's worthy of an entire show.
[23:12.180 --> 23:14.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: But we have business to take care of tonight.
[23:14.320 --> 23:16.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: As we mentioned, tonight is a fundraising show.
[23:16.640 --> 23:18.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we're in the middle of the October fundraising drive.
[23:18.820 --> 23:22.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we have a special guest with us tonight.
[23:22.640 --> 23:24.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: John Huntington joins us.
[23:24.480 --> 23:24.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello.
[23:25.320 --> 23:29.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: And John is one of our speakers at the Hope Conference.
[23:30.160 --> 23:32.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: But you do a lot of very interesting things.
[23:33.060 --> 23:36.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: You run something known as Gravesend.
[23:37.280 --> 23:40.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: And maybe... well, let's start with you discussing what that is.
[23:41.060 --> 23:44.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then we can get into some of the other amazing things that you're involved with.
[23:44.740 --> 23:45.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[23:45.220 --> 23:49.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: The Gravesend Inn is our haunted hotel that we do at New York City College of Technology.
[23:50.100 --> 23:50.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of names here.
[23:51.420 --> 23:53.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's New York City College of Technology.
[23:53.040 --> 23:54.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's the college where I teach.
[23:54.260 --> 23:56.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's also called City Tech, which is part of CUNY.
[23:56.380 --> 23:58.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: So just to get maximum confusion...
[23:58.160 --> 23:58.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where?
[23:59.100 --> 23:59.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: Downtown Brooklyn.
[24:00.120 --> 24:00.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[24:00.860 --> 24:09.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: So the Gravesend Inn started about 10 years ago as just an excuse for us to take everything off the shelf and turn it on and fire it up and have some fun with it.
[24:09.580 --> 24:11.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: And now it's grown into...
[24:11.560 --> 24:14.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: We get 2,000 to 3,000 people typically in a year come through.
[24:16.060 --> 24:16.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody from...
[24:16.980 --> 24:18.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: We let families make their own judgments.
[24:19.120 --> 24:21.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: But pretty young kids come through to adults.
[24:21.400 --> 24:24.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: And each one can get kind of something different out of it.
[24:25.040 --> 24:27.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: And the audience isn't generally aware.
[24:27.740 --> 24:28.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: But we give away a little secret.
[24:29.100 --> 24:32.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: Is that the audience actually operates the entire attraction as they go through.
[24:32.560 --> 24:35.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: So if there's no one in the haunted house, nothing's happening.
[24:35.740 --> 24:41.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: As they go through sensors and various technologies we use to sense them as they go through.
[24:41.520 --> 24:43.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then trigger things for each area.
[24:43.400 --> 24:45.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we did this a couple of years ago.
[24:46.100 --> 24:47.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: You gave us a tour of the place.
[24:47.680 --> 24:50.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I understand that it's gotten even more advanced since then.
[24:50.560 --> 24:53.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: You had all kinds of computer-activated effects.
[24:54.120 --> 24:57.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they were pretty scary, pretty interesting, pretty advanced.
[24:58.960 --> 25:02.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, I mean, you don't just get involved with the haunted house.
[25:02.400 --> 25:07.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: You are involved in theater in general and technology and how that all relates.
[25:07.540 --> 25:10.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: You want to tell us how that's developed over the past few years?
[25:11.180 --> 25:11.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[25:11.820 --> 25:14.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: So our school, it's an entertainment technology department.
[25:14.780 --> 25:18.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: So we, anything that's, we focus particularly on live entertainment.
[25:18.720 --> 25:23.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: So this is really a project for us, the same that you would see in a theme park.
[25:23.200 --> 25:28.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's just like Disney or Universal, one of those types of attractions.
[25:28.100 --> 25:39.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: And the, basically, the only difference between what we're doing and what they're doing is that we're building it out of wood and putting it in and out every year where they build it out of, you know, concrete and conduit and install it permanently.
[25:39.400 --> 25:44.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's part of our program at the school is pretty unique in that we focus on that.
[25:44.460 --> 25:51.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know many other programs in the country that run a haunted house, especially of this level of sophistication.
[25:51.300 --> 25:57.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: And we've been, the college is really supported on this because we're, our, the mission of our school is to support the local industry.
[25:57.940 --> 26:01.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: And the local industry in New York is live entertainment or one of the major industries.
[26:01.520 --> 26:06.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: So we were kind of counting up the, you know, how much stuff we have now and how valuable it is.
[26:06.200 --> 26:07.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's pretty impressive even to us now.
[26:07.960 --> 26:11.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: Over the years, we just built onto it and built onto it and built onto it.
[26:11.720 --> 26:12.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: And Mike...
[26:21.580 --> 26:34.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: Brought some of your most exceptionally skilled students to the Hope Conference to help us with the AV stuff at the Hope Conference, which is a massive job in itself.
[26:34.640 --> 26:35.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they've been a lot of help.
[26:35.820 --> 26:37.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm sure they've learned a lot that way, too.
[26:38.780 --> 26:40.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they really love it, actually.
[26:40.340 --> 26:42.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: They have a great time because...
[26:42.100 --> 26:44.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: And our program's unique in that we...
[26:44.320 --> 26:45.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I went to traditional theater school.
[26:46.140 --> 26:50.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, in small towns where a lot of those schools are, they have to make a lot of production opportunities.
[26:50.940 --> 26:54.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: But because we're in New York, we just say, hey, go find something interesting to work on.
[26:54.760 --> 26:56.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's been a great thing for them.
[26:56.480 --> 27:00.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then they also get exposed to the whole world of, you know, hackers and everything else that goes on in the conference.
[27:00.900 --> 27:04.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: And the students that have all done it have all really, really enjoyed it.
[27:05.040 --> 27:11.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it definitely is something cool to witness, see everybody learning and teaching.
[27:11.560 --> 27:16.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: And now you've just published a book, which you want to tell us what this is all about.
[27:16.760 --> 27:26.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, and it's a good tie-in with Graves and Inn, is that Graves and Inn is sort of a good example of the type of technology that we use in live shows and themed attractions.
[27:27.160 --> 27:33.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: And what we do, and the talk I gave at the Hope Conference a couple years ago, it was called Hacking for an Audience.
[27:33.420 --> 27:42.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of what we do, is we adapt all this stuff from different industries and then use it in kind of unusual ways where kind of pretty high-stakes stuff sometimes.
[27:42.240 --> 27:44.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Not in terms of, you know, our cliches.
[27:44.640 --> 27:46.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're not doing, you know, cancer research or something like that.
[27:47.220 --> 27:49.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: But our, you know, our product is our show.
[27:49.240 --> 27:52.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: And so if you don't have a show to put on, you don't have, you know, we're out of business basically.
[27:52.760 --> 28:04.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: So we use networking equipment, industrial control, electronics, you know, Arduino, anything you can imagine, we put it all together and then integrate it using what we call show control technologies.
[28:04.920 --> 28:12.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: And the book covers both what we call entertainment control, so that's all the basics for all the areas, lighting and sound and video and so on.
[28:13.040 --> 28:19.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then networking, which is now our, Ethernet is now our backbone technology on everything we do.
[28:19.540 --> 28:34.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was just listening before, like, we don't get into, like, load balancing kind of stuff, but we use the Ethernet someplace where you might be, you know, dragging it through the mud after a circus and then, you know, using it to control things that are dangerous or that if it goes wrong,
[28:34.640 --> 28:37.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, you have to give, you know, 5,000 people their money back.
[28:37.660 --> 28:42.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: So we compartmentalize stuff and build it in ways that we can fix it very quickly.
[28:42.480 --> 28:45.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's sort of the focus of the book is that it explains those technologies.
[28:46.640 --> 28:49.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's written both for people in our industry.
[28:49.400 --> 28:58.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: They need to learn more about the networking and stuff like that, but I wrote it to try to also speak to people just hackers or other people interested, like, hey, that looks cool.
[28:58.260 --> 29:02.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: And so the first part of the book explains just a little bit in each of the areas.
[29:02.540 --> 29:11.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, we have chapters on lighting, lasers, sound, video, and then I go into all the networking stuff, which is kind of new in our industry.
[29:11.680 --> 29:14.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: Not really new, but a lot of people in our industry don't get that coverage.
[29:15.000 --> 29:17.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then it goes on into practical examples and then show control stuff.
[29:17.640 --> 29:21.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: I was just looking through this before the show, and I'm very impressed.
[29:21.520 --> 29:22.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's several hundred pages long.
[29:23.620 --> 29:28.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's very well laid out as far as artwork and diagrams and things like that.
[29:28.300 --> 29:32.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's technical, but it's also introductory as far as explaining things.
[29:33.460 --> 29:37.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: And as you mentioned, there are a bunch of different chapters on a bunch of different topics.
[29:37.440 --> 29:39.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, Rob, you look kind of entranced by it right now.
[29:39.860 --> 29:40.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: What are you looking at?
[29:40.620 --> 29:42.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm looking at the chapter on lighting.
[29:42.860 --> 29:49.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's funny, because I used to work in a couple of fields that involve systems a lot like this.
[29:49.500 --> 29:55.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I used to work in theatrical lighting, and I used to work with animatronics and some other stuff like that.
[29:55.200 --> 30:00.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: And so I'm seeing things that I was working with ages ago that I had to jump in and learn the hard way.
[30:00.840 --> 30:06.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: But the way this is written, it is very, like you said, it's introductory for those who need that.
[30:06.680 --> 30:16.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: But there's also, you can go deeper and find the harder, in-depth sort of explanations of what's going on and how these things work and why they do what they do and how they can be used well.
[30:16.060 --> 30:18.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, there are great illustrations, great photos.
[30:19.160 --> 30:24.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Somewhere in here is an animatronic gorilla that was cut in half that I kind of want for my new desktop.
[30:24.880 --> 30:31.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: But there is... it's a great look behind the scenes for people that are just passively interested in this sort of thing and want to know how it all works.
[30:32.060 --> 30:34.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: And maybe like special effects nerds and people like that.
[30:34.040 --> 30:38.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: But also, it's a great intro for people who want to start getting their hands dirty and work with stuff like this.
[30:39.120 --> 30:39.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: Emmanuel?
[30:39.740 --> 30:40.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead, Bernie.
[30:40.600 --> 30:53.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: I just want to say, there's probably very few people in our audience, and I don't think any of us here on the show, who haven't been to some live entertainment show that saw something really amazing and wondered, how the heck did they do that?
[30:53.380 --> 30:56.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you just didn't know how to find out how they did that.
[30:56.440 --> 30:58.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: This book tells you how they did that.
[30:59.380 --> 31:01.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you can really... I mean, you can flip through this book.
[31:01.860 --> 31:02.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've been flipping through it.
[31:03.000 --> 31:08.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I've seen a bunch of stuff in there that I realized, oh, I saw this show at this place and that show there.
[31:08.520 --> 31:09.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's how they did that.
[31:09.640 --> 31:12.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: So this really... this really fills you in on...
[31:12.600 --> 31:13.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't destroy the magic of it.
[31:13.940 --> 31:16.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, John, are you going to get in trouble for telling people how it was done?
[31:16.420 --> 31:20.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is this like a magician thing where you're going to get blacklisted now, or...?
[31:20.460 --> 31:22.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, unfortunately...
[31:22.040 --> 31:24.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: Fortunately, in our industry, we...
[31:24.160 --> 31:27.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: Fortunately, in our industry, there's a lot of open sharing of this stuff.
[31:27.620 --> 31:29.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: But if it's really secret, then it just...
[31:29.660 --> 31:31.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: You don't write it down, or it's written for a specific audience.
[31:31.860 --> 31:32.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Understood, okay.
[31:32.900 --> 31:33.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: But I'll just say one thing quickly.
[31:34.160 --> 31:36.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: The last part of the book is actually...
[31:36.460 --> 31:41.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's written more to tie everything together, but it's sort of hypothetical example systems.
[31:42.180 --> 31:42.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: They're actually...
[31:42.860 --> 31:46.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: Most of them are based on real shows that I worked on over the years.
[31:46.760 --> 31:47.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: But that really...
[31:47.580 --> 31:49.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: Like Bernie was saying, that really kind of...
[31:49.080 --> 31:51.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: The objective is to kind of tie it together for people.
[31:51.420 --> 31:57.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: So if you always wondered how did they do the projections and this and that on a big concert, like, how is it tied together?
[31:57.820 --> 31:59.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: I have an example in there to talk about that.
[31:59.640 --> 32:02.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then a theme park one, and a corporate show, and all different types of stuff.
[32:02.580 --> 32:04.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: In your examples, it's very hard.
[32:06.040 --> 32:13.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's curious how you came up with these names for the fake shows, because they're very heavily veiled from the real stuff that I know you worked on.
[32:13.420 --> 32:20.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: You worked on, I guess, a Purple Floyd and a Xylenol marketing opportunity and things like that.
[32:21.300 --> 32:29.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: And so the readers can maybe try and guess, like, what could that possibly be in real life, and then see if they've been to something like that.
[32:30.000 --> 32:33.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the sheer range of stuff that's covered in here is amazing.
[32:33.440 --> 32:35.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Even for people familiar with this, they're going to learn something.
[32:35.760 --> 32:37.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there's a chapter on, you know, stage lighting.
[32:37.940 --> 32:42.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a chapter on lasers, audio, pyrotechnics, fog, and things like that, animatronics.
[32:42.460 --> 32:52.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, complemented with chapters on networking and networking basics and TCP and IP and then, you know, MIDI controls and SMPTE and MIDI timecode stuff.
[32:52.520 --> 32:55.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's... there's just so much to this.
[32:55.220 --> 32:59.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, so many fields and so many disciplines come together to make a show like this.
[32:59.440 --> 33:05.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's just amazing to see exactly what's going on behind all those scenes.
[33:05.080 --> 33:05.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
[33:05.620 --> 33:09.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, people are calling wanting to know, okay, what do I have to do to get this?
[33:09.420 --> 33:10.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't mention this.
[33:10.580 --> 33:12.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we are offering this tonight.
[33:12.640 --> 33:13.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
[33:13.340 --> 33:15.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: We just got so entranced with the whole conversation.
[33:15.560 --> 33:23.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: This amazing book, it's entitled Control Systems, Show Networks and Control Systems by John Huntington.
[33:23.420 --> 33:29.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's an incredible book with all kinds of details and information that you won't find anyplace else, really.
[33:30.260 --> 33:31.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're offering that.
[33:31.700 --> 33:39.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: In addition, we're offering another book about hackerspaces called Hack This, 24 Incredible Hackerspace Projects.
[33:39.520 --> 33:46.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we're offering all the DVDs where John has talked at the HELP conference about this and other related topics, which we'll get to in a moment.
[33:47.200 --> 33:51.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: All that for a pledge of only $75 to 212-209-2950.
[33:51.520 --> 33:52.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are you sure that's not a mistake?
[33:52.980 --> 33:54.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: You get all that for $75?
[33:54.860 --> 33:55.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a zero missing?
[33:56.260 --> 33:56.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, $75.
[33:57.300 --> 33:57.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow.
[33:57.800 --> 33:58.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, $75.
[33:58.660 --> 33:59.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's not bad.
[33:59.380 --> 34:00.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: But it's only for this hour.
[34:00.640 --> 34:02.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's only until 8 o'clock after that.
[34:02.360 --> 34:05.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: So when you say it's for this hour, you mean it's for this 27-minute period?
[34:05.320 --> 34:07.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because we spend so much time talking about it.
[34:07.180 --> 34:08.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the time is fleeting.
[34:08.900 --> 34:10.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, so 212-209-2950.
[34:11.100 --> 34:15.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you have a touchstone phone, you can dial faster and get through quicker so that the time doesn't go.
[34:16.320 --> 34:18.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: You only have until 8 o'clock to do this.
[34:19.080 --> 34:21.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: $75, you'll get that book.
[34:21.220 --> 34:23.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: You'll get the other Hackerspace book.
[34:23.460 --> 34:26.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you'll get the related DVDs.
[34:26.680 --> 34:28.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's really pretty amazing.
[34:28.280 --> 34:31.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I guarantee you this is not something that you'll find anywhere else.
[34:32.040 --> 34:33.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: And here's something else.
[34:33.320 --> 34:34.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: We threw this in, too.
[34:35.100 --> 34:36.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks to our friends at...
[34:37.160 --> 34:38.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: How do you pronounce their name, Bernie?
[34:39.500 --> 34:40.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: Jameco Electronics.
[34:40.460 --> 34:41.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I was going to say Jameco.
[34:42.000 --> 34:42.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's Jameco.
[34:42.940 --> 34:44.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: It shows you how clued in I am.
[34:45.900 --> 34:46.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Jameco, right?
[34:47.180 --> 34:47.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Jameco.
[34:47.660 --> 34:48.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Jameco.
[34:48.060 --> 34:49.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: See, I can't get it right even now.
[34:50.000 --> 34:50.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Jameco.
[34:50.840 --> 34:54.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: They have been kind enough to donate some multimeters.
[34:55.520 --> 34:59.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: And me being the klutz that I am, I have no idea what you can do with a multimeter.
[34:59.160 --> 35:01.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Who wants to describe what these magical devices can do?
[35:02.460 --> 35:02.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Ooh, ooh.
[35:03.360 --> 35:07.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me just say, that is yours in addition to all this for a pledge of $125.
[35:07.800 --> 35:10.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: So if you want the multimeter, pledge $125.
[35:11.200 --> 35:12.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: You'll get the two books.
[35:12.280 --> 35:13.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: You'll get the DVDs.
[35:13.140 --> 35:15.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you'll get the multimeter as well for $125.
[35:15.440 --> 35:17.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: 212-209-2950.
[35:17.760 --> 35:19.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Who can describe what this magical device does?
[35:20.400 --> 35:20.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: Emmanuel.
[35:21.120 --> 35:21.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bernie, go ahead.
[35:22.260 --> 35:24.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I mean, this is a good package because it all fits together.
[35:25.000 --> 35:33.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because anybody who reads this book and wants to do anything that's talked about in the book is going to need one of these tools, a digital multimeter.
[35:33.140 --> 35:36.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's just sort of like a Swiss Army knife of electronics measuring.
[35:36.580 --> 35:39.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: It measures a DC current all the way up to 10 amps.
[35:40.200 --> 35:42.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: It measures DC voltage up to 1,000 volts.
[35:42.780 --> 35:46.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: It does AC voltage measurement up to 750 volts.
[35:46.880 --> 35:47.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Resistance.
[35:47.400 --> 35:50.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're talking about that resistance measurement up to 2 million ohms.
[35:50.260 --> 35:53.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: It trans transistors, both PNP and NPN transistors.
[35:54.040 --> 35:56.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: It does test diodes, continuity.
[35:56.600 --> 36:01.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: It even has a signal generator in it, a square wave and sine wave signal generator, and even tests its own batteries.
[36:01.600 --> 36:03.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're scaring me here, Bernie.
[36:03.440 --> 36:05.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: What's the end goal here?
[36:05.600 --> 36:18.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: The end goal is there's two test probes coming out of this thing, two little things like knitting needles on cords, and you stick them into the circuit, and it tells you what's going on in that circuit, the voltage, amperage, current, resistance.
[36:19.160 --> 36:24.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: It makes sounds when you connect it to things, so you can tell you can hear whether you have a good circuit or not.
[36:24.560 --> 36:33.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's an extremely useful tool to anybody who's really, even your average person is, you don't have to be designing shows for Purple Floyd or Pink Floyd.
[36:34.280 --> 36:39.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Anybody who has any interest in electronics at all is going to want to have a digital multimeter.
[36:40.300 --> 36:43.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you can't measure something, you really can't work with it.
[36:43.440 --> 36:56.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I encourage listeners to call 212-209-2950 and pledge either $75 for the book and the DVDs or $125 for the book, the DVDs, and this digital multimeter donated by GM Co.
[36:56.300 --> 36:56.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Electronics.
[36:56.800 --> 36:58.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: And Rob is playing with one of the digital multimeters right now.
[36:59.080 --> 37:00.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're not going to blow up something with that.
[37:00.800 --> 37:05.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: It looks very complex, wires and gauges and things like that.
[37:05.480 --> 37:07.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: And just, yeah, keep your distance.
[37:07.880 --> 37:11.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's kind of hard to show someone this over the radio, so I'll just show you the sounds of it.
[37:12.100 --> 37:12.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[37:12.740 --> 37:15.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that sounds serious there.
[37:15.900 --> 37:16.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: That sounds pretty hardcore.
[37:16.560 --> 37:17.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll show a little bit of that.
[37:17.400 --> 37:18.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow.
[37:18.360 --> 37:18.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[37:19.400 --> 37:23.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: So it beeps and it clicks, and it does a lot more than that.
[37:23.960 --> 37:26.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Pledge of 125, you'll get the digital multimeter.
[37:26.280 --> 37:30.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: You'll get the two books, the book by John Huntington, Show Networks and Control Systems.
[37:31.020 --> 37:34.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you'll get the Hackerspace book, 24 Incredible Hackerspace Projects.
[37:34.980 --> 37:42.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you'll get the DVDs that John Huntington has given over the past couple of years at the HOPE conferences.
[37:42.220 --> 37:43.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's really an incredible package.
[37:44.200 --> 37:46.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: So for $75, you get the books and the DVDs.
[37:46.700 --> 37:49.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: For $125, you get all that plus the digital multimeter.
[37:50.020 --> 37:51.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: 212-209-2950.
[37:51.420 --> 37:52.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: We have two calls on the line.
[37:52.600 --> 37:53.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's make that four calls.
[37:54.820 --> 37:59.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we will be doing a lot of good work today, getting support for the radio station.
[37:59.980 --> 38:00.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[38:00.220 --> 38:08.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: And so for that pledge of $75, calling 212-209-2950, you will get the book Hack This by John Baitill, who we've had on the show before.
[38:09.180 --> 38:13.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Great book of hackerspace projects and a little bit of info on various hackerspaces around the country.
[38:14.380 --> 38:17.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you will get DVDs of John Huntington speaking at HOPE.
[38:17.460 --> 38:21.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you will get John Huntington's book, Show Networks and Control Systems, which sounds like this when you drop it.
[38:22.320 --> 38:25.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: That is a 472-page book.
[38:25.200 --> 38:26.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: You got that from me.
[38:26.120 --> 38:27.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm the one that started dropping books on the air.
[38:27.800 --> 38:30.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, but I've got the book here, and you haven't, so...
[38:30.640 --> 38:31.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: I've got this book.
[38:31.520 --> 38:31.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: I stole the book.
[38:32.160 --> 38:32.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Whoops.
[38:32.840 --> 38:33.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Fell on the floor.
[38:34.160 --> 38:35.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're slipping, Emmanuel, Rob.
[38:36.060 --> 38:38.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have a table over here, so it fell on the floor.
[38:39.480 --> 38:42.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: And so all of that for a pledge of $75.
[38:42.660 --> 38:44.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: But most importantly, you get this radio station.
[38:44.800 --> 38:45.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: You get this radio show.
[38:45.860 --> 38:47.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: You get membership in WBAI.
[38:47.660 --> 38:49.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: You get a voice in where the station goes from here.
[38:50.040 --> 38:52.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: And also, we get this question every week.
[38:53.020 --> 38:57.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Every week, we invariably get someone who emails us after the fact saying, I just listened to you on a podcast.
[38:57.260 --> 38:58.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just listened to your MP3.
[38:58.720 --> 39:02.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Can I get this thing that you were giving away for pledging?
[39:02.680 --> 39:03.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, you can't.
[39:03.460 --> 39:06.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can only get it live for the rest of this hour.
[39:06.060 --> 39:10.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's 22 more minutes by calling 212-209-2950.
[39:10.480 --> 39:11.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we don't do that to be bastards.
[39:11.840 --> 39:20.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: We do that because if we did open it up beyond our show hours, maybe 1,000 people would call in because a lot of people do call in wanting this.
[39:20.860 --> 39:22.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then we'd have to cough that up.
[39:22.180 --> 39:25.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we'd be on the streets pretty quickly.
[39:26.640 --> 39:32.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: After basically spending everything we have to get all these donations, because it does cost to do this.
[39:33.220 --> 39:35.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: So we have to limit it.
[39:35.940 --> 39:37.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: But you can still donate.
[39:37.180 --> 39:39.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can still donate without getting those particular premiums.
[39:39.880 --> 39:41.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: There are WBAI generic premiums you can get at any time.
[39:42.060 --> 39:44.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: But yes, up until 8 o'clock is when we are offering this.
[39:44.960 --> 39:45.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, Bernie, go ahead.
[39:45.800 --> 39:49.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we have a lot of generous people that help us do these fundraisers.
[39:49.600 --> 39:56.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Like John Huntington was generous enough to donate as many copies of books as we need for this fundraising show.
[39:56.640 --> 39:57.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's not a cheap book.
[39:58.100 --> 39:58.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
[39:58.460 --> 40:00.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is not an inexpensive book.
[40:00.360 --> 40:01.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a pretty serious book.
[40:01.400 --> 40:03.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: But it's a good casual read.
[40:03.100 --> 40:07.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: You don't have to be a technologist to appreciate this book.
[40:07.740 --> 40:15.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: You can really read this book and have a basic understanding of how all the stuff you see happening in live entertainment shows really works.
[40:15.800 --> 40:18.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: And so John donated that book.
[40:18.120 --> 40:21.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Jamco Electronics was kind enough to donate these digital multimeters.
[40:21.920 --> 40:28.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Q Publishing donated to hack this book, 24 Incredible Hackerspace Projects from the Do-It-Yourself Movement by John Bightel.
[40:28.840 --> 40:39.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we have a lot of generous people and companies that donate these items so that we can encourage people to pledge support for WBAI, which is worthy of support itself.
[40:39.600 --> 40:42.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: So call 212-209-2950.
[40:43.100 --> 40:48.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: Get some great thank you gifts for supporting a great radio station, keeping off the hook, and a lot of other good shows on the air.
[40:49.040 --> 40:51.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we also have four calls on the line, which is great.
[40:51.400 --> 40:52.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks very much, people calling in.
[40:53.160 --> 40:55.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Again, 212-209-2950 is the phone number.
[40:55.960 --> 40:58.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we are making this offer available up until 8 o'clock.
[40:59.060 --> 41:01.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we also, I should add in that there's another alternative.
[41:02.500 --> 41:09.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: If for some reason, which I would find hard to believe, none of this interests you, we have a different premium for $75.
[41:10.240 --> 41:14.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that basically is the, it goes back to Hope No.
[41:14.460 --> 41:16.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: 9, which took place in July of this year.
[41:16.660 --> 41:26.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's basically a 20-DVD set of what we consider to be the most popular talks that took place during Hope No.
[41:26.160 --> 41:26.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: 9 this July.
[41:26.980 --> 41:37.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: We basically confer, we confer various times during the week to decide, we bicker and debate about which ones will be included in that 20-DVD set.
[41:38.020 --> 41:42.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: But for a pledge of $75, you'll get 20, well, not 20 DVDs, 20 talks.
[41:42.420 --> 41:46.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: A talk might be more than one DVD, so you could get 21 or 22, depending on what we finally figure out.
[41:47.060 --> 41:50.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: I can say that all the keynotes, the keynote speakers will be on there.
[41:52.440 --> 41:57.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: So you'll certainly get the Yes Men, and you'll certainly get William Binney.
[41:59.020 --> 42:02.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: But you'll get 18 more talks as well for a pledge of $75.
[42:02.740 --> 42:03.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's a good deal.
[42:04.000 --> 42:08.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Even if you don't like the conference, 20 DVDs is a good deal.
[42:08.300 --> 42:12.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think everybody who listens to this show is interested in the things that went on at Hope.
[42:12.540 --> 42:15.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: It was really, I think, the most interesting conference of the year.
[42:15.300 --> 42:23.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I know I'm biased, but really, if you look at the variety of speakers and the skill set there, it simply was incredible.
[42:23.600 --> 42:27.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: And to get 20 DVDs for a pledge of $75 is simply an amazing deal.
[42:27.780 --> 42:30.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Again, the phone number for that, 212-209-2950.
[42:30.880 --> 42:33.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Once again, we can only offer that up until 8 o'clock.
[42:34.140 --> 42:37.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: So we hope to see a strong reaction to that.
[42:38.240 --> 42:46.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: But getting back to John's book here, which really is an incredible piece, John, you self-published this, correct?
[42:46.720 --> 42:52.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did three editions with a publisher, and they just weren't interested in continuing.
[42:53.420 --> 42:55.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Why were they not interested in continuing?
[42:56.180 --> 42:56.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting.
[42:57.920 --> 43:04.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to go through all the sales figures on the air, but it wasn't up to their standards, although I don't think they really marketed well enough anyway.
[43:04.040 --> 43:08.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: But I was depressed for about a day, and then I'm like, well, I can do this myself.
[43:08.440 --> 43:17.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: I had done all the production work previously, and I went through and I used CreateSpace, which is the company that does this stuff, and then uploaded it.
[43:18.060 --> 43:22.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, obviously, I had to write it, which is a lot of work, and that's hard to keep motivated.
[43:22.360 --> 43:23.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: But it was great in a lot of ways.
[43:23.940 --> 43:32.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: For example, I went to a trade show this summer, and I talked to people there who had seen the previous editions of the book, and they were like, well, that title doesn't really apply to me, and I think it really did.
[43:32.900 --> 43:35.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: So literally on the plane, I'm like, okay, I just change it.
[43:35.720 --> 43:40.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: On the laptop on the way home, I emailed it to a few friends to make sure I wasn't crazy, and then I just did it.
[43:40.840 --> 43:49.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I hired a person to help me with the cover, check out the artwork, and help me with some of the graphics and stuff, and then just did it, and it's been a great process.
[43:50.060 --> 43:53.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I'm going to propose for the next HOPE conference that I released.
[43:53.760 --> 44:02.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: I got this online right before HOPE this year, so in another year and a half or whatever, I'm going to propose a talk to talk about that whole process and the economics.
[44:02.900 --> 44:12.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: That really speaks to the power of the individual to self-publish and to bypass the dinosaurs that run the publishing industry, the music industry, the film industry.
[44:12.340 --> 44:18.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: We can do it all ourselves, and we can get the support network directly from the consumers of people out there.
[44:18.720 --> 44:26.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think what we're doing here tonight indicates that as well, because this book should not exist according to the publishing industry, but you did it anyway.
[44:26.760 --> 44:38.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's what the hacker spirit is all about, is bypassing all these artificial restrictions that are based on antiquated knowledge and business practices and things like that.
[44:38.560 --> 44:43.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: So your phone call is actually a voice of support for this kind of thing as well as supporting WBAI.
[44:43.780 --> 44:47.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: And again, you'll get the Shell Networks and Control Systems book by John Huntington.
[44:47.600 --> 44:56.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: You'll get the DVDs of his talks, and you'll get the Hackerspace book for a pledge of only $75 to 212-209-2950.
[44:56.200 --> 45:00.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: For $125, you'll get all of that, plus the really way cool multimeter from Jameco.
[45:01.360 --> 45:05.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: And for a pledge of $75, you can also get the 20 DVD Hope No.
[45:05.920 --> 45:07.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: 9 set, Greatest Hits of Hope No.
[45:07.840 --> 45:08.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: 9.
[45:08.080 --> 45:11.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: But you got a call now, 212-209-2950.
[45:11.380 --> 45:13.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're down to one call on the line.
[45:13.180 --> 45:17.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I know there's a bunch of people down there, so please make that phone call now.
[45:17.480 --> 45:18.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: Make us happy.
[45:18.240 --> 45:23.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Make WBAI prosperous so that we can continue for another 52 years.
[45:23.660 --> 45:26.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: We've been on the air 52 years at 99.5.
[45:26.740 --> 45:31.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think we beat pretty much every station on the dial in New York City.
[45:31.280 --> 45:32.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: I really think we do.
[45:32.400 --> 45:35.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that says something about the value of listener support.
[45:35.400 --> 45:45.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Every single commercial station on the dial in New York City has switched formats or switched call letters or even switched frequencies because it's so transient.
[45:45.900 --> 45:57.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't have staying power, but listener support of the kind that WBAI has, that's something that has stuck around and will stick around and has so much power.
[45:57.660 --> 46:04.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and the circumstances that came together to make this station happen were a complete fluke in so many ways.
[46:04.120 --> 46:05.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: It would never happen again if we lost it.
[46:05.980 --> 46:07.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: There is no way we could get back what we have here.
[46:08.160 --> 46:17.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the fact that we've managed to keep this going for 52 years based only on this right now, based only on asking for help from our community, from our listeners.
[46:17.620 --> 46:21.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: You are the only thing that's been keeping us on the air these 52 years.
[46:21.820 --> 46:30.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the fact that we can make that happen, that we can, you know, that we can succeed in that is just really, really bizarre and insane and wonderful.
[46:30.300 --> 46:40.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, it's worth continuing and it's worth going further in this and continuing to have this unique place for voices like ours.
[46:40.720 --> 46:42.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: I see one call coming in.
[46:42.440 --> 46:43.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: I want 10 calls to come in.
[46:44.000 --> 46:46.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it might sound a bit much, but it's not.
[46:46.860 --> 46:47.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: It really is not.
[46:47.660 --> 46:49.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: I know there are lots and lots of people listening.
[46:49.500 --> 46:51.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: I know there are lots of people that agree with this.
[46:51.120 --> 46:54.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I know there are lots of people who will get something out of what we're offering tonight.
[46:55.660 --> 46:58.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: But your call is the way to voice that support.
[46:58.800 --> 46:59.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's your vote.
[46:59.900 --> 47:04.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's your investment in this place to keep it going and to make sure that we are here.
[47:04.980 --> 47:07.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because, yeah, it's expensive to be in New York City.
[47:07.040 --> 47:10.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's expensive to be on the Empire State Building, which is where our transmitter is.
[47:10.580 --> 47:12.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's why I can get to four different states.
[47:12.520 --> 47:16.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's expensive even to be on the Internet to reach the entire world.
[47:16.280 --> 47:21.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wherever it is that you're listening to us from, it's vital that you show that support.
[47:21.240 --> 47:25.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: You voice that particular vote of yours and you invest in the future.
[47:26.100 --> 47:36.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: 212-209-2950, whether you're pledging $75 or $125, whatever premium level that you desire, every little bit counts and it adds up.
[47:37.040 --> 47:38.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: 212-209-2950.
[47:38.420 --> 47:38.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead, Bernie.
[47:39.460 --> 47:45.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Emmanuel, you mentioned a little earlier that if it were up to the publishing industry, John Huntington's book would not exist.
[47:46.460 --> 47:50.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: So as a labor of love, he's making it exist through do-it-yourself self-publishing.
[47:50.920 --> 47:54.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's a good analogy for what goes on at WBAI.
[47:55.720 --> 47:57.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: WBAI should not exist.
[47:57.480 --> 48:00.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: The radio industry does not want WBAI to exist.
[48:00.340 --> 48:13.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because we compete with commercial stations for, you know, for commercial, you know, corporations want to sell you, you know, chewing gum and shampoo and insurance and cars over the air.
[48:13.380 --> 48:17.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: And this radio station doesn't try to pitch any of that stuff or throw it down your throat.
[48:18.500 --> 48:20.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: We don't have any commercials.
[48:21.020 --> 48:23.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's why this radio station...
[48:23.620 --> 48:30.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: The only reason this radio station exists is people, like who are listening right now, can call 212-209-2950.
[48:30.180 --> 48:33.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: The radio industry doesn't like listening-reported stations.
[48:34.360 --> 48:36.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is do-it-yourself radio.
[48:36.160 --> 48:38.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's been going on for more than half a century.
[48:38.420 --> 48:39.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we have to keep it going.
[48:40.160 --> 48:42.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because once it's gone, it's gone.
[48:42.340 --> 48:44.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: 212-209-2950.
[48:44.900 --> 48:47.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we're going to give you some great thank you gifts for supporting this great station.
[48:48.140 --> 48:57.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: And now more than ever, we're in a time where people can do things like this, where people can support the things they love to do purely based on help from their audiences.
[48:57.460 --> 49:00.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: We've got Kickstarters and Indiegogos and things like the Tesla Museum.
[49:00.740 --> 49:04.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, all these things where people are skipping over the old business models.
[49:04.480 --> 49:07.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're skipping over, you know, the publishing industry that doesn't think this book should exist.
[49:08.280 --> 49:11.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: And now John has this book successfully on his own.
[49:11.400 --> 49:15.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, we've been doing that for now, for 52 years.
[49:15.600 --> 49:17.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now it's finally in fashion.
[49:17.580 --> 49:19.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have been doing it for 52 years.
[49:19.580 --> 49:24.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: We collectively, as WBAI, speaking for the station, have been doing this for 52 years.
[49:24.000 --> 49:33.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: But now people are finally getting a hold of this sort of thing in all these aspects of the media environment and stuff around us, where you can just support things directly.
[49:33.060 --> 49:38.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: You don't need some big corporation that's going to, you know, take a big chunk of the cheese between you and what you want to support.
[49:38.640 --> 49:39.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what we do here.
[49:39.760 --> 49:40.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's why it's important.
[49:40.860 --> 49:52.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: So if you call 212-209-2950 and add your support to that that keeps us on the air and that keeps this place alive, you'll be becoming part of that.
[49:52.460 --> 49:53.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Three calls on the line right now.
[49:54.120 --> 49:55.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: And as I said, I want 10.
[49:55.340 --> 50:00.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's not something that's unreasonable to ask for.
[50:00.560 --> 50:03.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: I know that other stations get that amount very quickly.
[50:03.660 --> 50:05.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: And all they do is play classical music.
[50:05.600 --> 50:06.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's fine.
[50:06.240 --> 50:07.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, no problem there.
[50:07.260 --> 50:09.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I want to tell you something about the magic that goes on in this place.
[50:09.760 --> 50:10.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're sitting in a room right now.
[50:10.860 --> 50:11.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's master control.
[50:12.220 --> 50:13.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we have...
[50:13.740 --> 50:15.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: There's five of us right now.
[50:15.180 --> 50:15.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: There could be a lot more.
[50:16.000 --> 50:16.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes there are a lot more.
[50:17.220 --> 50:18.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: But we're one show.
[50:18.440 --> 50:21.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're one show, one hour out of 24, one day out of seven.
[50:22.540 --> 50:23.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: And in a week.
[50:23.920 --> 50:27.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: And every single hour, something else happens in this room.
[50:28.080 --> 50:30.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think there's a room like this anywhere in New York City.
[50:30.940 --> 50:32.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Anywhere in the country, I don't think there's a room like this.
[50:32.700 --> 50:35.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where you can have people that are representatives of foreign governments.
[50:35.340 --> 50:36.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can have musicians.
[50:36.720 --> 50:38.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can have artists of all sorts.
[50:38.920 --> 50:39.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: And hackers.
[50:40.220 --> 50:44.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: And just about anybody with something interesting to say can be in this room.
[50:44.440 --> 50:46.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Or be on the telephone and over the air.
[50:47.020 --> 50:49.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: And reach people in that particular manner.
[50:49.820 --> 50:51.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, yeah, we have the Internet.
[50:52.000 --> 50:53.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: But there is no magic like radio.
[50:53.860 --> 50:58.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where you can just tune by accident while cruising in your car.
[50:58.340 --> 51:02.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Where all kinds of people can just find something unexpected.
[51:02.680 --> 51:03.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: That is the magic of radio.
[51:03.860 --> 51:05.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that is why this place has to be preserved.
[51:06.060 --> 51:09.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you can tune to all the other frequencies on the FM dial.
[51:09.320 --> 51:14.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: And hear the predictable canned music that repeats every hour.
[51:14.920 --> 51:16.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can hear all the commercials.
[51:16.160 --> 51:20.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can hear the word-for-word news if they even choose to read news.
[51:20.460 --> 51:23.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Or you can listen to WBAI where it changes hour by hour.
[51:23.480 --> 51:24.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you get alternatives.
[51:24.480 --> 51:25.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you get disagreement.
[51:25.900 --> 51:26.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you get dialogue.
[51:27.340 --> 51:29.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: That is what is worth supporting.
[51:29.500 --> 51:31.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, we're offering some amazing things tonight.
[51:31.600 --> 51:34.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: But the real reason to call is to support WBAI.
[51:34.620 --> 51:38.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Again, we're offering the book that John has been kind enough to donate to the cause.
[51:38.680 --> 51:40.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Show networks and control systems.
[51:40.400 --> 51:50.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's really incredible teaching experience to learn how theater works, how technology ties into it, and the whole hacking mentality behind that.
[51:50.280 --> 51:50.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: You get that.
[51:51.060 --> 51:55.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: You get the Hackerspace book with 24 Hackerspace projects included.
[51:55.700 --> 51:58.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: You get the DVDs of John's talks.
[51:58.740 --> 51:59.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: All that for a pledge of $75.
[51:59.920 --> 52:03.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: For a pledge of $125, you get all that plus a digital multimeter.
[52:04.320 --> 52:08.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: And again, there's also the Best of Hope option for $75, 20 DVDs.
[52:09.020 --> 52:09.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: John?
[52:10.400 --> 52:17.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think, excuse me, even if you're just interested in networks, a lot of what we do in live entertainment now is based on networks.
[52:17.920 --> 52:24.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: And a big chunk of the book just explains TCP IP networks, which is all routing, a little bit of routing.
[52:24.760 --> 52:32.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: And what's interesting, I think a lot of people in traditional sort of hackerspace background use a lot of Arduino and stuff like that.
[52:32.380 --> 52:35.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: We talk in here about power over Ethernet and some other things.
[52:35.060 --> 52:39.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: And so things we do like at the Gravesend Inn are like a big physical computer that's spread across a building.
[52:40.120 --> 52:42.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: So a big chunk of the book is actually explaining that.
[52:42.680 --> 52:47.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: So even if you're just interested in Ethernet, how you might use Ethernet to control something, that's a big part of the book.
[52:47.960 --> 52:50.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that might be very interesting to people, to hackers in general.
[52:50.600 --> 52:54.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Again, the phone number is 212-209-2950.
[52:54.780 --> 52:57.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're only on for about another five, seven minutes.
[52:57.940 --> 53:06.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: So please have those calls come in now so that we can walk out of here with our heads held high, knowing that we did something good.
[53:06.600 --> 53:10.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: We contributed something to the radio station and that we're remaining strong.
[53:10.560 --> 53:11.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Our listeners are still out there.
[53:11.680 --> 53:14.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's really vital that you speak up and step up.
[53:15.080 --> 53:17.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: 212-209-2950.
[53:17.760 --> 53:23.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: And again, if you miss being able to do this live, you can go to wbai.org and support the station that way.
[53:23.560 --> 53:26.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: We can't give you our premiums, but there's some other stuff you can get hold of.
[53:26.320 --> 53:32.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you can choose Off The Hook as the particular show you're supporting, and we'll get credited with your support.
[53:32.280 --> 53:32.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: I see five calls.
[53:33.020 --> 53:33.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's good.
[53:33.480 --> 53:33.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's good.
[53:34.180 --> 53:35.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's half what I want.
[53:35.440 --> 53:37.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: And again, you know, people do make pledges.
[53:37.360 --> 53:38.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: It only takes a minute to make a pledge.
[53:38.540 --> 53:41.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: So we might be up to that 10 already or getting to that 10.
[53:42.060 --> 53:42.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: I see another one coming in.
[53:42.960 --> 53:44.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: So that's six.
[53:44.320 --> 53:45.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, okay, another four.
[53:45.380 --> 53:47.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I guess I'll make my 10 and I'll be happy.
[53:48.060 --> 53:50.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: And making me happy is part of the whole thing.
[53:50.260 --> 53:51.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: You have to pledge when you call.
[53:51.380 --> 53:53.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, you can't just hang up the phone.
[53:53.280 --> 53:53.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, don't do that.
[53:54.040 --> 53:55.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to give people ideas for it, Mike.
[53:55.680 --> 53:55.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
[53:56.100 --> 53:58.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: People have ideas with or without my help.
[53:58.280 --> 53:59.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, there's number seven.
[53:59.300 --> 54:03.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: But the best idea that they have is to help keep this radio station on the air.
[54:03.280 --> 54:08.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because as we've said so many times tonight and over the years, if we go off the air, that's it.
[54:09.120 --> 54:11.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: We can't resurrect ourselves.
[54:11.320 --> 54:12.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: There is no one...
[54:13.300 --> 54:17.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's no such thing as like a nice guy who owns a radio station in New York City anymore.
[54:18.220 --> 54:23.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: And even Mike is even capable of considering donating it to the Pacifica Foundation.
[54:24.260 --> 54:25.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: It just doesn't exist.
[54:25.560 --> 54:34.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're all owned by these giant corporations who are legally obligated to use these assets in a way that maximizes the return for their investors.
[54:34.560 --> 54:35.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Two more calls, people.
[54:35.640 --> 54:36.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: 212-209-2950.
[54:37.260 --> 54:37.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Two more calls.
[54:37.920 --> 54:38.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll be very happy.
[54:38.480 --> 54:39.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: One more call.
[54:39.440 --> 54:40.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, thank you.
[54:40.120 --> 54:46.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Pacifica is legally obligated to provide the most interesting, the most controversial content to you, our audience.
[54:46.220 --> 55:02.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you want that to continue, if you want us to show you what's behind the scenes of entertainment, what's behind the scenes of the computers that run our lives, of the political systems in a way that no one else is going to explain to you, 212-209-2950.
[55:02.700 --> 55:03.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: 212-209-2950.
[55:03.480 --> 55:04.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: And there is number 10.
[55:04.440 --> 55:05.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I am happy.
[55:05.780 --> 55:08.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: But now the question is, do you want to make me very happy?
[55:09.180 --> 55:11.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: We can keep going beyond 10.
[55:11.400 --> 55:12.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: 212-209-2950.
[55:13.140 --> 55:17.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Again, what we're offering are the books, the show networks and control systems.
[55:17.880 --> 55:19.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Really a one-and-a-kind book.
[55:19.400 --> 55:22.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: You won't find this walking into a retail outlet.
[55:22.600 --> 55:33.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is something that is very specialized, very interesting, of great interest to anyone curious about the hacker world and theater and performances and innovation, that kind of a thing.
[55:33.500 --> 55:42.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: You'll also get the Hack This, 24 incredible hackerspace projects from the do-it-yourself movement by John Bactel, who was on the show previously.
[55:43.020 --> 55:46.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: You'll get John Huntington's DVD talks in addition.
[55:46.360 --> 55:49.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: All of that for a pledge of $75, 212-209-2950.
[55:49.600 --> 55:52.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: All of that plus a digital multimeter.
[55:52.420 --> 55:53.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Who's got the digital multimeter?
[55:54.320 --> 55:56.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: What is that you've built?
[55:56.740 --> 55:57.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, boy.
[55:58.140 --> 56:01.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: All kinds of things can be designed with this.
[56:01.240 --> 56:02.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wow, that's kind of scary.
[56:03.720 --> 56:05.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it comes with full instructions.
[56:05.620 --> 56:08.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Our friends at Jameco have donated that to us.
[56:08.320 --> 56:09.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's for a pledge of $125.
[56:09.260 --> 56:14.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: You get all the books, DVDs, and this incredible device for $125.
[56:14.740 --> 56:16.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: 212-209-2950.
[56:16.460 --> 56:21.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the one other choice that we have for a pledge of $75 is a Best of Hope No.
[56:21.360 --> 56:24.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: 9 20 DVD set, a 20 DVD talk set.
[56:24.540 --> 56:26.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: It might be a little bit more than 20 DVDs.
[56:26.540 --> 56:32.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's basically off the hook, people pick the greatest hits of Hope No.
[56:32.660 --> 56:32.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: 9.
[56:33.240 --> 56:34.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: And plus $75, you'll get all that.
[56:34.800 --> 56:36.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: 212-209-2950.
[56:36.240 --> 56:36.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, Bernie.
[56:37.120 --> 56:37.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: Last minute.
[56:37.840 --> 56:39.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know we've got to pull in a few of the last-minute calls.
[56:40.500 --> 56:47.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you were to add up the cost of all these premium gifts, it would cost you more than we're asking you to pledge to WBAI.
[56:47.120 --> 56:48.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: So this is a fantastic value.
[56:49.100 --> 56:51.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're supporting the radio station, and you're getting some great gifts.
[56:51.860 --> 56:57.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I also want to mention, John Huntington has a great blog called ControlledGeek.net.
[56:58.120 --> 57:00.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: ControlledGeek.net explains some of this stuff, too.
[57:00.380 --> 57:01.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: But call right now.
[57:01.140 --> 57:03.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: 212-209-2950 before we go off the air.
[57:03.780 --> 57:06.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: And let me also point out that, yes, what you say is true.
[57:06.480 --> 57:09.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: And many public radio stations don't do that.
[57:09.400 --> 57:13.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: They offer you a coffee mug for $250, and obviously it doesn't cost that much.
[57:13.920 --> 57:16.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: We go the opposite way on this particular show.
[57:17.040 --> 57:18.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: So 212-209-2950.
[57:19.000 --> 57:19.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're pretty much out of time.
[57:19.960 --> 57:25.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, John, I wanted to give you one opportunity to talk about your production, how people can go and see it.
[57:26.200 --> 57:26.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, great.
[57:26.740 --> 57:27.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thanks.
[57:27.820 --> 57:28.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: Gravesendin.org.
[57:28.540 --> 57:29.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're in downtown Brooklyn.
[57:29.600 --> 57:32.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: We open tomorrow, which is why my voice is a little raspy.
[57:32.620 --> 57:33.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: And we run through Halloween.
[57:33.980 --> 57:35.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: But we have a...
[57:35.040 --> 57:36.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: Check the website for the schedule.
[57:37.000 --> 57:37.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: Gravesendin.org.
[57:38.060 --> 57:39.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: How do you spell that?
[57:39.660 --> 57:40.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: How do you spell Gravesend?
[57:41.120 --> 57:44.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: G-R-A-V-E-S-E-N-D-IN.
[57:44.420 --> 57:45.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: All one word, .org.
[57:45.580 --> 57:46.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: And two N's on N.
[57:46.740 --> 57:47.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[57:47.340 --> 57:47.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[57:47.600 --> 57:48.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think people know how to spell it.
[57:48.920 --> 57:50.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: With only one, it's a word as well.
[57:50.420 --> 57:50.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's fine.
[57:50.740 --> 57:52.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: 212-209-2950.
[57:52.460 --> 57:53.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: John, thanks so much for stopping in.
[57:53.900 --> 57:53.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[57:54.000 --> 57:55.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: And for all you do.
[57:55.400 --> 57:56.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: And congratulations on the book.
[57:57.040 --> 57:57.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you very much.
[57:57.860 --> 57:59.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: We will see you next week.
[57:59.140 --> 58:02.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: And our email address, O-T-H-at-2600.com.
[58:02.700 --> 58:02.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good night.
[58:03.300 --> 58:05.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you're 54 or 55, you might want to listen.
[58:06.160 --> 58:06.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're an American.
[58:06.780 --> 58:08.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: For American people.
[58:08.340 --> 58:08.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're genius.
[58:09.240 --> 58:09.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Americans.
[58:09.900 --> 58:10.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're an American.
[58:10.600 --> 58:11.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: For Americans.
[58:11.900 --> 58:12.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Love America.
[58:13.000 --> 58:13.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: For Americans.
[58:13.840 --> 58:14.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Jobs overseas.
[58:14.600 --> 58:15.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Jobs for the American people.
[58:16.140 --> 58:16.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: A million new jobs.
[58:17.600 --> 58:18.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Kill jobs.
[58:18.220 --> 58:19.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hasn't destroyed jobs.
[58:19.540 --> 58:20.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Never quite get the job done.
[58:20.500 --> 58:21.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Killing new jobs.
[58:21.520 --> 58:21.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Five million.
[58:22.000 --> 58:22.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Two million.
[58:22.440 --> 58:22.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: Five million.
[58:22.880 --> 58:23.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Five billion.
[58:23.960 --> 58:24.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's three ways.
[58:24.680 --> 58:25.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Four years ago.
[58:25.880 --> 58:27.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: The numbers on a sheet.
[58:27.200 --> 58:27.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Pick up a number.
[58:28.080 --> 58:29.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can present in four years.
[58:32.280 --> 58:34.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have no idea what you're talking about.
[58:34.440 --> 58:35.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're not Apple.
[58:36.660 --> 58:39.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Governor Romney and I both agree that we use the same advisors.
[58:40.160 --> 58:40.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Correctly.
[58:40.720 --> 58:41.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: Governor Romney and I probably agree.
[58:42.000 --> 58:42.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: I said the same thing.
[58:42.860 --> 58:43.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: I agree.
[58:43.400 --> 58:44.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please let us do that.
[58:44.500 --> 58:45.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hop down.
[58:45.540 --> 58:46.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Trickle to hop down.
[58:46.540 --> 58:47.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hop down.
[58:47.260 --> 58:48.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Trickle to hop down.
[58:48.460 --> 58:49.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hop down.
[58:49.300 --> 58:50.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Trickle to hop down.
[58:50.260 --> 58:50.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hop down.
[58:51.100 --> 58:51.940]  Trickle to hop down.
[58:52.180 --> 58:52.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Obamacare.
[58:53.360 --> 58:53.780]  Obamacare.
[58:54.100 --> 58:54.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: Obamacare.
[58:54.680 --> 58:54.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Obamacare.
[58:54.900 --> 58:55.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Obamacare.
[58:55.040 --> 58:56.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have become fond of this term.
[58:56.500 --> 58:56.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Obamacare.
[58:57.180 --> 58:57.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Obamacare.
[58:57.940 --> 58:58.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Obamacare.
[58:58.520 --> 58:58.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Obamacare.
[58:58.700 --> 59:01.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm ObamaCare.
[59:02.400 --> 59:03.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have become fond of this term.
[59:08.400 --> 59:13.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: We embrace a new economic patriotism and the answer is yes, you got a corporate jet and your own airplane and expenses.
[59:13.340 --> 59:16.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: I used to consult, I've been in business... I love Big Bird, love America.
[59:16.920 --> 59:17.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: I like big birds.
[59:18.120 --> 59:18.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: I like to care.
[59:19.060 --> 59:21.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: I love big birds.
[59:22.040 --> 59:22.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: I like to care.
[59:22.840 --> 59:23.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: I love big birds.
[59:24.080 --> 59:25.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's expensive to consult.
[59:25.880 --> 59:26.360]  I've been in business.
[59:37.920 --> 59:40.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're an American people.
[59:40.500 --> 59:41.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: They're genius.
[59:41.740 --> 59:42.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're an American.
[59:43.160 --> 59:44.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Americans love America.
[59:54.260 --> 59:56.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you very much for this opportunity.
[59:59.120 --> 01:00:00.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: And thank you very much.
[01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:02.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[01:00:03.100 --> 01:00:04.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: W-B-I-B-A-I.