Off The Hook - 2015-04-29

[00:00.000 --> 00:03.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: Workers of the World Unite, May 1st, May Day, 2 to 6 p.m.
[00:04.040 --> 00:05.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: with Mimi Rosenberg and Ken Nash.
[00:06.080 --> 00:07.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: We Bill Bridges.
[00:14.370 --> 00:21.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, I'm Rosie Perez and this is WBAI, listener-supported, non-commercial video in New York.
[00:23.400 --> 00:27.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: And you are listening to WBAI New York.
[00:27.840 --> 00:35.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's 7 o'clock and time for the very last edition of Off The Hook.
[00:36.340 --> 00:37.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let me finish.
[00:37.840 --> 00:39.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.
[00:40.340 --> 00:44.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: The very last edition of Off The Hook from Harlem.
[00:49.830 --> 00:54.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:55.270 --> 00:59.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:00.630 --> 01:02.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: We couldn't get much worse.
[01:03.170 --> 01:08.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: One little bump of the best, expect the worst.
[01:08.810 --> 01:10.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: I hope that's understood.
[01:10.770 --> 01:11.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: One little bump!
[01:19.220 --> 01:20.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[01:20.480 --> 01:21.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sorry, folks.
[01:21.380 --> 01:26.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have here at these modern studios, which we are now going to be leaving.
[01:27.460 --> 01:28.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's actually, a lot of people don't know this.
[01:29.000 --> 01:36.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's voice activated so that when I'm on at 7 o'clock on a Wednesday evening and I say Off The Hook, that triggers the theme to play.
[01:36.200 --> 01:39.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I forgot about that when I said Off The Hook, it just started.
[01:39.340 --> 01:40.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not going to happen again.
[01:40.380 --> 01:43.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: But yes, this is our last show from the Harlem studios.
[01:44.060 --> 01:46.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Next week, we move.
[01:47.420 --> 01:48.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have no idea where we're going.
[01:48.880 --> 01:50.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, we actually do know where we're going.
[01:50.500 --> 01:51.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's very exciting.
[01:51.240 --> 01:52.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: But let me introduce people first.
[01:52.240 --> 01:53.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're also joined tonight by Mike.
[01:54.120 --> 01:54.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hi.
[01:54.540 --> 01:54.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Rob T. Firefly.
[01:55.660 --> 01:55.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[01:56.120 --> 01:56.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: Kyle.
[01:56.640 --> 01:56.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Present.
[01:57.280 --> 01:58.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: And Bernie S.
[01:58.440 --> 01:59.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Greetings from Philadelphia.
[01:59.860 --> 02:07.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, we're not going to Philadelphia next week, but we are going to be going, I'm told, Brooklyn to our new building in Brooklyn.
[02:07.460 --> 02:07.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's very exciting.
[02:08.140 --> 02:16.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's going to be kind of rough, too, because we're still, as we speak, we are hammering nails and running wire and things like that.
[02:16.520 --> 02:20.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a work in progress, but it is going to be a work.
[02:20.000 --> 02:26.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it will be progressing, and it's going to be fun and different and part of history.
[02:26.920 --> 02:28.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: This place, though, I'm going to miss this place.
[02:28.960 --> 02:30.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm going to miss the studios here at WHCR.
[02:31.400 --> 02:34.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: These folks are outstanding as far as their hospitality.
[02:35.000 --> 02:37.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: They've put up with us for how long have we been here?
[02:37.720 --> 02:38.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: It seems like forever.
[02:39.120 --> 02:43.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're the person that crashes on the couch just for a couple of nights and stays for like a year.
[02:44.200 --> 02:45.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's been over a year.
[02:45.300 --> 02:46.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: We stayed over a year, didn't we?
[02:47.580 --> 02:49.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: WHCR is Harlem Community Radio.
[02:49.420 --> 02:54.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're here at City College in New York, and they run a great radio station, too.
[02:54.820 --> 02:56.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's another radio station happening right here.
[02:57.120 --> 03:03.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: You might want to tune in, after our show, you might want to tune in, 90.3 in Manhattan, or at disco.whcr.org.
[03:03.480 --> 03:06.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Amazing people doing amazing work at a different radio station.
[03:06.680 --> 03:11.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's the magic of radio, is that there are so many different outlets out there.
[03:11.400 --> 03:15.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: And this station really has been very gracious to us.
[03:16.100 --> 03:17.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'm going to miss this place.
[03:17.540 --> 03:26.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm going to miss this college, too, because whenever we come here, it's just hopping with activities, students just all enthused about various things, and the community, too.
[03:26.640 --> 03:27.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: I absolutely love the community up here.
[03:28.700 --> 03:32.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I'm going to try to find reasons to come back, even though we don't have a radio station here.
[03:32.980 --> 03:34.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: But we will be in Brooklyn.
[03:34.260 --> 03:36.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: We will be right smack on Atlantic Avenue.
[03:36.580 --> 03:39.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's going to be an adventure, right?
[03:39.660 --> 03:41.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's an interesting area down there.
[03:41.500 --> 03:44.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's sort of a central area in Brooklyn, as anyone who's been down there knows.
[03:44.620 --> 03:46.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's right near that mess that Jay-Z calls a stadium.
[03:46.840 --> 03:49.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's, you know, sort of central to what's going on.
[03:49.380 --> 03:59.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: And there's a lot to do down there, apart from broadcast your own radio station at WBAI's shiny new facility, well, shiny, in-progress new facilities.
[03:59.600 --> 04:00.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's an awesome facility.
[04:00.460 --> 04:01.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: It is a lovely facility.
[04:01.720 --> 04:06.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a building, and we just are building things within the building.
[04:06.960 --> 04:12.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's the kind of thing that is precisely what people told us was not possible when we were back on Wall Street.
[04:12.720 --> 04:13.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: We could never do this.
[04:13.820 --> 04:14.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it looks like we're doing it.
[04:14.900 --> 04:23.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: It looks like we're moving into a really cool place in a hopping neighborhood, and it's going to be ours, and a place where hopefully we'll just keep getting better.
[04:23.960 --> 04:25.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm looking forward to that.
[04:25.960 --> 04:27.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: We are, and it's a very nice building.
[04:27.760 --> 04:33.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's got the things we need, and it's got places for us to put everything we need, and it's got places for us to put all the people we need.
[04:34.320 --> 04:35.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was there on Monday.
[04:35.460 --> 04:40.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: I met, actually, the landlady of the place, and she's actually a very nice person.
[04:40.140 --> 04:40.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: She is awesome.
[04:40.880 --> 04:42.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: She's a really incredible person.
[04:42.620 --> 04:45.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, she's the landlady, yeah, but she doesn't act like a landlady.
[04:45.580 --> 04:50.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: She packages premiums and helps out and knows about the radio station, listens to the radio station.
[04:50.200 --> 04:52.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's exactly the kind of environment we need to be in.
[04:52.220 --> 04:52.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.
[04:52.660 --> 04:53.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: She knows what we're doing.
[04:53.960 --> 04:54.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: She knows how we're doing it.
[04:54.920 --> 04:59.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: And she's enthusiastic about it and as happy to be part of it as any of us are.
[04:59.480 --> 05:00.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: So history awaits.
[05:00.800 --> 05:03.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: And next week actually begins the spring fundraiser.
[05:03.540 --> 05:04.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: So that's going to be fun, too.
[05:04.740 --> 05:12.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wow, it's going to be a carnival ride for sure, because undoubtedly, we won't have everything we need right away.
[05:12.240 --> 05:13.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't think we're going to have enough phone lines.
[05:14.660 --> 05:15.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: It might be noisy.
[05:16.020 --> 05:17.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: You might hear people walking up and down the hallway.
[05:17.800 --> 05:18.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[05:18.900 --> 05:19.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know what to expect.
[05:19.840 --> 05:21.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: But it's going to be different.
[05:21.080 --> 05:24.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's going to be a step in a good direction.
[05:24.320 --> 05:28.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I hope all of our listeners, as we start that particular fundraiser, are there for us.
[05:30.380 --> 05:32.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we're going to have new premiums this time, too.
[05:32.560 --> 05:33.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: So it's going to be awesome.
[05:33.560 --> 05:39.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I wanted to add the actual date for the cutover for the first broadcast is May Day.
[05:40.420 --> 05:41.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Isn't that something?
[05:41.480 --> 05:42.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know if anybody's realized that.
[05:42.720 --> 05:46.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: But yes, Friday, May 1st is the day it all begins.
[05:46.760 --> 05:50.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: So if you're participating in the general strike, you can come by and lend a hand.
[05:50.360 --> 05:50.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: Exactly.
[05:51.000 --> 05:51.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[05:51.560 --> 05:55.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because... Well, actually, you know, May 1st has always been a holiday here at WBAI.
[05:56.480 --> 05:57.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Employees will get the day off.
[05:57.760 --> 06:01.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's not the way it is with most establishments in the country.
[06:01.460 --> 06:06.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: So maybe this May 1st, they won't be taking the day off, any paid employees that are left.
[06:07.480 --> 06:09.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: And certainly a lot of volunteers will be helping out.
[06:09.720 --> 06:10.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, Bernie?
[06:10.480 --> 06:16.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: I just want to say, our listeners have a unique opportunity at 6 o'clock on May Day, 6 a.m.
[06:16.920 --> 06:18.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: May Day, if they want to get up early.
[06:18.480 --> 06:28.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Here's some historic radio, because our program director, our interim program director, Mario Murillo, will be doing the first broadcast from Brooklyn at 6 a.m.
[06:29.500 --> 06:37.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: And just listening to this cutover from Harlem to Brooklyn, it's just interesting.
[06:37.660 --> 06:41.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: I like listening to stuff that's live and happening.
[06:41.740 --> 06:46.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: It'll be smoother than the cutover of your phone as it pans its signal off from one zone to another.
[06:46.760 --> 06:50.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: But yeah, you know, it'll be interesting to hear that.
[06:50.860 --> 06:52.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, you know, we just did it right now.
[06:52.440 --> 06:54.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: We just had a show from Brooklyn before us.
[06:54.720 --> 06:58.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think it was coming from a different facility, but we just cut over from Brooklyn to here.
[06:58.300 --> 06:59.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not that big a deal.
[06:59.920 --> 07:02.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: But as far as history goes, it's a huge deal.
[07:02.880 --> 07:05.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: And yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
[07:05.140 --> 07:05.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: I really am.
[07:05.500 --> 07:07.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know how we're going to park.
[07:07.340 --> 07:11.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know how I'm going to get there yet, but I didn't know that about Harlem either.
[07:11.440 --> 07:14.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's very centrally located, like every subway goes there.
[07:14.180 --> 07:18.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, and we'll be right after rush hour, so that's going to be a lot of fun too.
[07:19.120 --> 07:21.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: But we'll see, you know, whatever happens, happens.
[07:22.140 --> 07:28.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, we have things to talk about relating to the various subjects that we've been discussing over the past few weeks.
[07:28.880 --> 07:35.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: I guess the biggest one, the most important right now, is the whole Stingray thing.
[07:36.460 --> 07:38.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: We were talking about Stingray.
[07:38.200 --> 07:47.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's when authorities pretend they're a cell phone site and grab your information and route your phone call through them.
[07:47.560 --> 08:08.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it turns out, in all places, Baltimore, a city judge has turned back a challenge, this happened on Monday, to the Baltimore Police Department's use of the controversial cell phone surveillance tool in a murder case, ruling that a suspect can't complain about police deploying the device to find a stolen phone.
[08:08.500 --> 08:17.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: The case is the latest in recent months, in which police disclosed use of a cell site simulator, which for years was shrouded in secrecy.
[08:18.160 --> 08:22.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anthony Todd is accused of killing Kevin Gibson in March 2013.
[08:22.800 --> 08:26.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Police traced the victim's stolen cell phone to Todd's home.
[08:27.180 --> 08:32.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: Detectives testified that the killing created an urgency that left no time to get a court order.
[08:32.760 --> 08:39.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: The judge's ruling was, of course, a victory for law enforcement amid recent questions about the device, known as a stingray.
[08:39.520 --> 08:49.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: The device is so secretive that the FBI has required police and prosecutors to sign a document, agreeing not to discuss its use, even to judges or legislators.
[08:49.560 --> 08:50.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's the real story right there.
[08:50.920 --> 09:00.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: Of course, you know, it's really hard to say, oh, yeah, you know, this guy should have won because he's a murder suspect and they can't admit this in court because they're using the stingray tech.
[09:01.100 --> 09:04.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, the average person is going to say, wait, I don't see a problem here.
[09:04.200 --> 09:06.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: I see this as a good thing because justice is being served.
[09:06.880 --> 09:14.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: The real story is what I just read about the fact that even judges, legislators, nobody is allowed to know about this.
[09:15.060 --> 09:17.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's all in secret.
[09:18.000 --> 09:25.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: The stingray works by mimicking a cell phone tower, tricking all phones within a range of up to a mile to connect with it.
[09:25.360 --> 09:30.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: And for years, police have referred to it in affidavits using terms such as sophisticated technology.
[09:30.660 --> 09:39.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if questions arose, the nondisclosure agreement instructed prosecutors to drop cases rather than reveal details about it.
[09:39.420 --> 09:41.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: We talked about a case last week.
[09:42.140 --> 09:43.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: Exactly that same thing happened.
[09:43.620 --> 09:43.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[09:43.880 --> 09:56.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, and if you are the sort of tough on crime people, then this should really offend you because people who may, in fact, be guilty are having their cases dropped because of these procedural flaws.
[09:56.160 --> 09:56.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's good.
[09:56.460 --> 09:57.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's... yes, exactly.
[09:57.780 --> 09:57.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[09:57.980 --> 10:02.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: People will have their cases dropped that are guilty because they don't want to talk about the stingray.
[10:02.280 --> 10:07.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: They don't want to talk about how it works or what they're allowed to do with it or what they think they're allowed to do with it.
[10:07.620 --> 10:07.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Emmanuel.
[10:08.200 --> 10:08.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, Bernie.
[10:08.500 --> 10:23.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have a theory about why the FBI is so willing to let alleged dangerous criminals walk out on the street rather than the FBI reveal how their secret surveillance technologies work.
[10:23.780 --> 10:25.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's two-pronged, I think.
[10:26.160 --> 10:30.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: One, I don't think they want the general public knowing how...
[10:30.000 --> 10:31.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe three-pronged.
[10:32.000 --> 10:33.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Why the general public...
[10:33.360 --> 10:39.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: They don't want the public general public knowing how they're eavesdropping on a lot of people who aren't even under investigation.
[10:40.120 --> 10:53.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: They don't want civil rights advocates like the ACLU and the EFF challenging what many think is an unconstitutional form of electronic surveillance because this is all the stingray use is done without judicial oversight.
[10:54.120 --> 10:55.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: And three...
[10:55.080 --> 10:56.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: And also, Bernie, it's not just for suspects.
[10:56.760 --> 10:58.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's everybody in the area.
[10:59.240 --> 10:59.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly.
[10:59.920 --> 11:01.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Political protests, everything.
[11:01.340 --> 11:03.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: They're just doing us without warrants without any judicial oversight.
[11:03.800 --> 11:23.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: And thirdly, if they have to reveal how this technology works, it will provide more information to hackers and application developers who will write applications for mobile phones that might be able to detect...
[11:23.620 --> 11:30.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: which might be able to detect when their phone is being used in a man-in-the-middle attack through one of these stingrays.
[11:30.500 --> 11:33.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: So they have a lot to lose on this.
[11:33.360 --> 11:43.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Some of the cases they're using these on probably are national security-related, but they're also using them for a lot of cases like the FBI has been doing for many generations for political surveillance and other kinds of things.
[11:44.260 --> 11:45.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think it has to stop.
[11:45.940 --> 11:53.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and the concept that's blowing me away, particularly right now, is the fact that they can get away with throwing due process out the window because they don't have time to get a court order.
[11:53.760 --> 11:56.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: They don't have time to let the system work as it's designed to.
[11:56.240 --> 11:57.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's such a bother, Rob.
[11:57.400 --> 12:01.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: How many people can get away with a crime because they don't have time to do things legally?
[12:01.760 --> 12:04.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, can I go out speeding because I don't have time to drive the speed limit?
[12:04.220 --> 12:07.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can I go murder somebody because I don't have time to wait for them to die naturally?
[12:07.440 --> 12:09.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's, you know, for them to just...
[12:09.500 --> 12:15.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, there are the rules for all of us, and then there are the rules for law enforcement, and they're always very, very different and contrary.
[12:16.400 --> 12:16.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[12:16.840 --> 12:17.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't have time for that.
[12:17.560 --> 12:18.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, I guess not.
[12:18.280 --> 12:21.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: So that's where that stands at the moment.
[12:21.600 --> 12:28.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: But we also have a couple of listeners wrote in to tell us about the Android IMSI Catcher Detector.
[12:28.580 --> 12:44.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's an app to detect the IMSI catchers, devices such as Stingray, false mobile towers, base stations acting between the largest, actually the target mobile phones and the real towers of service providers.
[12:44.600 --> 12:47.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: And as such, they are considered a man-in-the-middle attack.
[12:47.540 --> 12:51.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: In the USA, the IMSI catcher technology is known under the name Stingray.
[12:52.360 --> 13:03.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: And these guys are developing an app to detect a Stingray through... and I'm sorry, they printed white-on-white on their webpage.
[13:03.260 --> 13:08.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: So it's kind of hard to see what the detection methods, IS, such as... do you want to read that, Kyle?
[13:08.960 --> 13:10.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because I can barely see it.
[13:10.200 --> 13:13.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Such as checking tower information consistency.
[13:14.760 --> 13:17.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: It prevents silent app installations.
[13:18.080 --> 13:21.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Check the LAC and cell ID consistency.
[13:22.380 --> 13:33.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Also, you have the ability to check neighboring cell info and its signal strength monitors and looks for silent SMS and detects femtocells.
[13:34.060 --> 13:35.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: And femtocells are very small.
[13:35.640 --> 13:39.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: So this is exactly what we were talking about as far as something that needs to be done.
[13:39.680 --> 13:41.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: And these guys are developing it now.
[13:42.180 --> 13:43.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: I believe they're looking for support.
[13:44.020 --> 13:47.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do we have the information as to how people can contact them?
[13:47.460 --> 13:47.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[13:48.120 --> 13:48.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go ahead, Barney.
[13:48.560 --> 13:57.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can just search online for the acronym AIM, as in Mary, S-I-C-D, AIM-S-I-C-D.
[13:58.420 --> 14:00.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's the Android MC Catcher Detector.
[14:01.080 --> 14:04.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: But AIM-S-I-C-D is the name of this application.
[14:04.760 --> 14:23.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's really interesting to visit this website and see all the work that people are doing to develop an Android application that will, on certain phones, ultimately be able to tip people off, in some cases, if they're being subjected to a man-in-the-middle attack by law enforcement.
[14:23.760 --> 14:31.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I think it's really inspirational to see this happening and to know that there are people working on fighting back against this sort of thing.
[14:31.620 --> 14:34.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, this particular project, they stress they're still on alpha stage.
[14:35.120 --> 14:42.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're looking for people who can verify their app on actual IMSI catchers, stingrays, and other fake base stations.
[14:43.140 --> 14:45.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Expect false alarms, they say.
[14:46.160 --> 14:49.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: And also, it's important to note the things that the app does not do.
[14:50.060 --> 15:06.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: It does not provide secure phone calls, secure data transmission, app permission controls, secure application sandboxing, secure SMS, does not provide firewalls, does not provide firewalls, full device encryption, and does not prevent already installed rogue applications from full access and spying.
[15:07.060 --> 15:08.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: But you knew that.
[15:08.940 --> 15:09.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[15:09.960 --> 15:14.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, any other reports on things like that, please write to us.
[15:14.320 --> 15:16.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: oth@2600.com.
[15:16.720 --> 15:20.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: We'd love to hear further details on various things like that.
[15:20.740 --> 15:24.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: We got a lot of mail for various things we were discussing.
[15:24.820 --> 15:40.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: Another advantage, Christopher writes, of an FM receiver in your phone is that the phone's power consumption for receiving a strong FM signal is much less than the phone's power consumption for streaming FM music data from a cell phone tower.
[15:40.300 --> 15:45.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: FM is free, but I need to plug in earbuds to make an FM antenna, or the option doesn't appear.
[15:45.700 --> 15:46.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, that's interesting.
[15:46.340 --> 15:51.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: The option doesn't appear on his phone unless he plugs in the headphones.
[15:51.140 --> 15:55.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: I knew it didn't work because you need the antenna, but it doesn't even show up.
[15:56.740 --> 16:07.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: Christopher dropped Verizon, a Verizon wireless, he says, because I was outraged that Verizon required an extra payment to turn on a GPS receiver that gets a free signal from the satellites.
[16:08.180 --> 16:13.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: I bought an unlocked Motorola DeFi, water-resistant, he says, and got a T-Mobile chip.
[16:13.960 --> 16:17.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: GPS is free, as it is in my car or on my handheld GPS.
[16:19.020 --> 16:23.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: And he finishes by saying, one of my requirements for a cell phone is the ability to remove the battery.
[16:23.900 --> 16:28.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think the NSA and police towers have more difficulty tracking a phone without onboard power.
[16:29.160 --> 16:44.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I'm not sure if this is the person we talked to on the air or not, but it is legitimately true that some cell phone GPS receivers do not work when not connected to the Internet or a data network of some sort.
[16:45.300 --> 16:56.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Not all GPS chips on smartphones, in particular, have the ability to pull down sort of all the data they need in order to compute your location directly from the satellites.
[16:56.460 --> 17:04.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Some of them can only get that data from the Internet, and that's done for cost reasons a lot of the time.
[17:04.480 --> 17:15.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm sure the carriers are not exactly sad that it involves you paying them more money, but it's not necessarily a wholly invented scam just to get your money.
[17:15.520 --> 17:16.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Emmanuel?
[17:16.560 --> 17:17.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, Bernie, go ahead.
[17:17.460 --> 17:37.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mike is right, and there's also a concern that some cell phone chipsets, notably some from Qualcomm, don't even allow apps to break the connection between GPS and your cellular carrier.
[17:37.080 --> 17:39.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: In other words, spy on your location.
[17:42.200 --> 17:48.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: You could, like, modify your phone to, like, break the GPS filters in your phone and so forth.
[17:48.800 --> 17:51.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I was just going to say you'd have to remove it yourself maybe with a utility knife.
[17:51.600 --> 17:57.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, you'd have to really do some serious microscopic hardware hacking of your phone to disable that.
[17:57.280 --> 17:59.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: My phone, I don't know, it's not exclusive to Verizon.
[17:59.640 --> 18:07.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, Verizon isn't blocking everybody from accessing GPS without their cell phone network being connected to your phone.
[18:08.200 --> 18:23.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: My BlackBerry Z30 allows me to not only monitor received GPS signals, but also GLONASS signal, which is GLONASS is the former Soviet and Russian satellite geonavigation system.
[18:23.320 --> 18:29.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: I can receive data from both of those satellite networks on my BlackBerry Z30 without my cell phone being connected to Verizon's network.
[18:29.640 --> 18:30.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Which I think is kind of neat.
[18:31.280 --> 18:42.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's fairly common on newer, especially higher-end cell phones that can receive from more than one network, which increases reliability.
[18:43.500 --> 18:44.040]  Yep.
[18:44.220 --> 18:46.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, well, another letter from another listener.
[18:46.500 --> 18:52.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: Justin writes in to say, I wanted to let you know about a film known as The Deep Web.
[18:52.320 --> 18:55.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can find out more about it at deepwebthemovie.com.
[18:56.320 --> 18:58.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: Joe Rogan interviewed the director recently.
[18:58.680 --> 19:00.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have no doubt the movie is going to be fantastic.
[19:01.180 --> 19:02.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know who Joe Rogan is.
[19:02.480 --> 19:07.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: But the director, Alex Winter, was Keanu Reeves' sidekick in Bill & Ted.
[19:08.020 --> 19:11.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bill & Ted, I don't know if that really qualifies you for much.
[19:11.280 --> 19:13.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, okay, he apparently knows his stuff.
[19:13.280 --> 19:14.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's good enough for me.
[19:14.720 --> 19:18.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: The movie is mostly concerning the Silk Road, legal battles that are ensuing.
[19:19.120 --> 19:21.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, yeah, I look forward to seeing that.
[19:21.600 --> 19:22.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I'm aware of this movie.
[19:22.940 --> 19:24.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was funded through Kickstarter.
[19:24.500 --> 19:25.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was one of the backers of it.
[19:25.600 --> 19:30.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, and Alex Winter actually, you know, apart from being Bill from Bill & Ted, he actually does know his stuff.
[19:30.920 --> 19:36.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: He previously did a documentary on Napster and the whole file sharing explosion.
[19:36.060 --> 19:37.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it was actually a decent film.
[19:38.100 --> 19:40.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it was made by people who know...
[19:40.380 --> 19:40.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wait, he was Bill.
[19:41.120 --> 19:41.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: He's an actor.
[19:41.780 --> 19:41.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[19:42.060 --> 19:42.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I didn't know that.
[19:42.560 --> 19:43.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: I thought he was Bill from Bill & Ted.
[19:43.360 --> 19:44.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: I thought he was somebody behind the film.
[19:44.820 --> 19:45.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, no.
[19:45.240 --> 19:45.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: He was Bill.
[19:46.060 --> 19:48.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: And Keanu Reeves actually narrates the new film, I believe.
[19:50.040 --> 19:51.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, yeah, it's supposed to be a good film.
[19:51.660 --> 19:52.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm really, I'm looking forward to seeing it.
[19:52.960 --> 19:54.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, just the blurb that they give on their site.
[19:54.940 --> 20:00.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Deep Web gives the inside story of one of the most important and riveting digital crime sagas of the century.
[20:00.000 --> 20:10.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: The arrest of Ross William Ulbricht, the convicted 30-year-old entrepreneur, accused to be Dread Pirate Roberts, creator and operator of online black market Silk Road.
[20:10.320 --> 20:21.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: The film explores how the brightest minds and thought leaders behind the deep web are now caught in the crosshairs of the battle for control of a future inextricably linked to technology.
[20:21.760 --> 20:24.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: With our digital rights hanging in the balance.
[20:24.780 --> 20:25.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, I'm sold.
[20:26.100 --> 20:29.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, so I'm willing to believe you, Rob, if you say that they actually know what they're doing.
[20:30.000 --> 20:37.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the title of the film and the weird Hollywood credentials and that blurb Emmanuel just read do not instill me with confidence.
[20:37.920 --> 20:38.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: But what would?
[20:38.540 --> 20:39.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, come on, the deep web.
[20:39.820 --> 20:41.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: What better title is there than that?
[20:41.780 --> 20:42.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Almost any title.
[20:42.880 --> 20:43.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[20:43.600 --> 20:45.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think it might be a little overly cynical here.
[20:45.540 --> 20:47.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Like, here's a documentary about the Silk Road.
[20:47.760 --> 20:48.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: That would be a better title.
[20:48.680 --> 20:49.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, that's really exciting.
[20:49.800 --> 20:50.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not exciting.
[20:50.920 --> 20:51.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's going to get them lined up around the block.
[20:52.100 --> 20:52.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's honest.
[20:53.020 --> 20:54.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's what I want in a title.
[20:54.200 --> 20:56.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think they were going to call it CSI Cyber, but it turned out that was taken.
[20:57.880 --> 20:58.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[20:58.380 --> 20:59.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I have yet to see that.
[20:59.540 --> 21:00.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I really should, I guess.
[21:01.300 --> 21:01.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[21:01.540 --> 21:02.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good news section.
[21:02.600 --> 21:05.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have a whole good news section this week.
[21:05.600 --> 21:12.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: This from the Electronic Frontier Foundation calling all New Yorkers, speak up for fair repair.
[21:12.680 --> 21:14.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's something I know is near and dear to your heart, Kyle.
[21:15.260 --> 21:26.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you're trying to tinker with repair or even recycle your electronics, whether it's a computer, a tablet, or a toaster, or maybe even a car, increasingly you face two major hurdles.
[21:26.580 --> 21:29.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: The first, bizarrely enough, is copyright law.
[21:29.640 --> 21:36.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: You see, you may own your device, but you probably just rent or license the software that runs it.
[21:36.180 --> 21:40.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that license will come with all sorts of legal and technological restrictions.
[21:40.660 --> 21:46.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: That particular problem has been getting a lot of attention in the last few days in the context of cars and tractors.
[21:46.600 --> 21:52.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Automakers have told the Copyright Office that car owners don't really own their cars and shouldn't be allowed to tinker with them.
[21:53.100 --> 21:54.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's true.
[21:54.280 --> 21:57.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: But there's another hairy problem here.
[21:58.400 --> 22:03.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: Would-be repairers need access to the tools and documentation for their devices.
[22:03.960 --> 22:15.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, New York is seeking to become the first state in the United States to solve that second problem with fair repair bills that guarantee customers can get access to the tools they need to service and repair their stuff.
[22:15.360 --> 22:18.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you're in New York, we need your help to get those bills passed.
[22:19.100 --> 22:28.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Our friends at the Digital Right to Repair Coalition have set up a tool to let you email your state legislators and tell them to support these bipartisan bills.
[22:28.380 --> 22:36.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: And you can find out all of that at EFF.org, that blurb written by Parker Higgins, who, by the way, has a column in this issue of 2600.
[22:36.400 --> 22:39.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I think this is really awesome news.
[22:39.440 --> 22:40.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: Kyle, you think so too?
[22:40.120 --> 22:43.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, this is the first I've heard about it.
[22:43.460 --> 22:59.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: And as far as moving this far ahead in New York specifically, but the real important thing is the would-be repairers there are a lot of independent mechanics and small shops, as well as hobbyists and individual owners.
[22:59.860 --> 23:07.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's incredibly difficult to get information about and to communicate with vehicle computer systems.
[23:07.720 --> 23:10.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: And nowadays, we have a lot more computers in cars.
[23:10.140 --> 23:13.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: So this is really critical stuff, and I'm glad to hear it's going forward in this way.
[23:14.420 --> 23:19.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's important to note, Kyle, that this bill specifically does not apply to cars and motorcycles.
[23:19.160 --> 23:21.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: So that would not be a part of this.
[23:21.740 --> 23:26.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I didn't use the form on the website because I was feeling a little old school.
[23:26.660 --> 23:30.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I actually mailed a paper letter to my New York State representatives.
[23:30.960 --> 23:31.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: And one of their...
[23:31.920 --> 23:38.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: Not the representative himself, but one of their staff wrote back to me today, thanking me for reaching out.
[23:38.660 --> 23:42.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: These people do not get nearly as much mail as the Federal Congress.
[23:43.000 --> 23:46.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: They would be excited to hear from you if you live in New York State.
[23:46.460 --> 23:50.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: I would highly encourage you to go to this website and fill out the form.
[23:50.580 --> 23:51.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: But you sent paper mail.
[23:52.040 --> 23:52.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: I sent paper mail.
[23:52.580 --> 23:54.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: So how did you get the address to send paper mail to you?
[23:55.160 --> 23:56.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: I Googled my...
[23:57.260 --> 24:00.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: The New York State Assembly and the New York State Senate both have...
[24:00.240 --> 24:06.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, you can type in your address and it will tell you who your representative is because if you're a normal person, you probably don't already know.
[24:06.280 --> 24:07.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it will give you their address.
[24:07.860 --> 24:08.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: What's the website?
[24:09.360 --> 24:14.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just type New York State Assembly into your favorite search engine and it will come right up.
[24:14.780 --> 24:14.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[24:15.200 --> 24:16.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for that clarification.
[24:16.460 --> 24:21.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it would not at all be a bad thing if that was expanded to cars and motorcycles.
[24:21.800 --> 24:32.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: But it actually isn't so much of a bad thing or at all that you would get movement on this with like agricultural vehicles and commercial trucks.
[24:32.900 --> 24:40.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Those are the backbone of the economy and a huge part of what is really, you know, how goods and services are moved around.
[24:40.840 --> 24:59.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: So getting support and getting that contingent on board and putting some emphasis behind any kind of action or legislation locally, regionally or nationally is great because it applies to those independent mechanics that are working on commercial vehicles as well.
[24:59.600 --> 25:05.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it just, it really does apply to cars and motorcycles and stuff too.
[25:06.000 --> 25:10.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I hope that it is expanded because it would not at all be a bad thing, I think.
[25:10.200 --> 25:11.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[25:11.440 --> 25:19.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: And a website to check out as well that deals directly with this is newyork.digitalrighttorepair.org.
[25:19.000 --> 25:21.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they have all kinds of information about this there.
[25:21.260 --> 25:28.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you're interested in the concept of right to repair, as does apply to vehicles, cars and motorcycles, there are projects out there.
[25:28.500 --> 25:31.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: One of them is the Open Auto Project, who they've spoken at Hope.
[25:31.560 --> 25:33.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Our friend Tiffany Rad's involved with them.
[25:33.440 --> 25:35.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's Open Auto, O-T-T-O, if I remember correctly.
[25:36.640 --> 25:39.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they're working toward getting this in place for vehicles.
[25:39.980 --> 25:42.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I can't really emphasize this enough.
[25:42.040 --> 25:48.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is really important stuff because this is the dealerships, the manufacturers and their service centers.
[25:48.400 --> 25:59.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: So their dealerships against independent mechanics and people that are owners of those vehicles and that understand that they are using proprietary software in some cases.
[25:59.540 --> 26:05.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: But they're also really trying to maintain their own equipment in an economical way.
[26:05.560 --> 26:21.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: And these dealerships hold huge, huge power over you if they're locking you out of communicating with your vehicle's computer system for diagnostic stuff, for upgrades, for changes to maybe you prefer Celsius instead of Fahrenheit.
[26:21.500 --> 26:25.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Little stuff like that, which you can modify from dealership computer systems.
[26:25.320 --> 26:31.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm talking about the Gecko, Star System, Mercedes, all these different manufacturers have their own different computer system.
[26:31.520 --> 26:32.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it really...
[26:33.160 --> 26:34.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: They don't want us talking about it on the air.
[26:34.620 --> 26:43.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: It holds you hostage and they can charge whatever they want for, you know, simply connecting something that has the right keys or whatnot to communicate with a car.
[26:44.260 --> 26:47.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Charge you hundreds of dollars for labor that is really not labor for them.
[26:47.860 --> 26:51.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: They can... they just have the control and they're exercising it.
[26:52.180 --> 27:03.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, to focus for just a moment on what this bill before the Assembly and Senate would actually do, it's primarily focused on electronics manufacturers.
[27:03.080 --> 27:16.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: So if you drop your phone and the screen breaks, which is a thing that's happened to me, and what I had to do was throw out my phone, my rather expensive phone, because you can't get replacement glass.
[27:16.080 --> 27:17.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can't get replacement parts.
[27:17.360 --> 27:18.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can't get instructions for installing them.
[27:18.900 --> 27:19.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: You should be more careful.
[27:19.620 --> 27:20.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: I should be.
[27:20.320 --> 27:20.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're right.
[27:20.800 --> 27:29.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: But also, I should be able to pay, you know, $100 or whatever glass actually costs to someone in my neighborhood and get it repaired.
[27:30.080 --> 27:33.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that's a huge win for consumers.
[27:33.000 --> 27:35.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a huge win for small independent businesses.
[27:35.800 --> 27:40.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a huge win for the environment, because I wouldn't have to have a drawer full of no longer wanted phones.
[27:40.820 --> 27:46.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: And so I think this bill, even though it excludes the motor vehicles, is still hugely important.
[27:46.620 --> 27:48.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wait, you keep all your old phones?
[27:48.440 --> 27:49.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have a drawer of them.
[27:50.020 --> 27:50.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: I do too.
[27:50.860 --> 27:51.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, I do too.
[27:51.360 --> 27:52.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: I just wanted to know if other people did that.
[27:52.820 --> 27:57.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: I cannot even reconcile throwing them away and having them wind up in a landfill someplace.
[27:57.680 --> 28:01.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, like, also, they're not doing anyone any good in my drawer, so...
[28:01.300 --> 28:02.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're great for movie props.
[28:03.740 --> 28:04.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[28:05.760 --> 28:07.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, that's cool.
[28:07.940 --> 28:14.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Like, a lot more of our devices are standalone computers themselves, so we should have access to all kinds of these things.
[28:14.500 --> 28:16.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: And consumer electronics are no exception.
[28:16.020 --> 28:21.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we are seeing this across devices, whether it's professional, consumer, prosumer, whatever kind of device it is.
[28:21.920 --> 28:26.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because there's stuff that's controlling it, and that you ought to...
[28:26.600 --> 28:33.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you want to know how your devices are working or repair them, I mean, you really need to have access and be allowed to.
[28:33.840 --> 28:36.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: And not just technically, I mean, legally.
[28:36.880 --> 28:39.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because that's a real barrier to a lot of people in this conversation.
[28:39.160 --> 28:48.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, this whole concept that you don't own something you bought, that you're simply leasing it or renting it or whatever, that's something that we're not used to.
[28:48.220 --> 28:49.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: We don't want to become used to that.
[28:50.020 --> 28:51.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's madness.
[28:51.000 --> 29:00.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or if you know how to access it and repair it, publishing that and sharing it with other people that are owners of that product, that becomes a legal thing.
[29:00.780 --> 29:05.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: And people are really petrified to do anything and talk about it with regard to this.
[29:05.640 --> 29:15.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it really makes it impossible and supports planned obsolescence and our overall, the failings of a consumer culture.
[29:16.200 --> 29:18.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: So let's hope New York is the first state to do this.
[29:18.360 --> 29:18.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, Bernie.
[29:19.480 --> 29:47.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: The legal linchpin behind all of this, as many of our longtime listeners will remember, is the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which we had to fight back 15 years ago, because that law makes it a federal offense to circumvent a technological measure that basically protects a piece of intellectual property,
[29:47.160 --> 29:56.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: which almost all of this software that runs your consumer electronics devices, your car, your truck, your tractor, whatever.
[29:56.760 --> 30:13.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: So basically, a lot of this legislation that is pending provides some safe harbor for people so they don't get convicted under laws like the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which is still a really stinky piece of law.
[30:14.060 --> 30:14.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, absolutely right.
[30:14.880 --> 30:19.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, that's the genesis of this kind of attitude, the sentiment.
[30:19.480 --> 30:25.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it absolutely... a lot of times the security measures will be vague or just a token measure.
[30:25.220 --> 30:32.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're not actually going to secure you if somebody breaks off a mirror and starts running, you know, accessing your canvas and turning on your car and running away with it.
[30:32.520 --> 30:48.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it's cruddy encryption insofar as protecting you, but as far as you being able to modify and do diagnostics on that same vehicle network, it's because it's there in a symbolic way, you can't even think about it, talk about it, share about it,
[30:48.620 --> 30:50.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: anything, you know, let alone fix it.
[30:50.540 --> 30:54.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you had me when you said we could change Fahrenheit to Celsius on the display on the dashboard.
[30:54.640 --> 30:55.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's... yeah, it's there.
[30:55.660 --> 30:57.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's... the capability's in there.
[30:57.360 --> 31:01.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good luck trying to find somebody at a dealership that will even understand what you're talking about, let alone do it.
[31:01.580 --> 31:11.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, you know, that kind of control, that kind of power, that kind of ingenuity that you can exercise on your own vehicle, as well as all other bits of technology that's essential.
[31:11.900 --> 31:13.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, so that's good news.
[31:13.420 --> 31:14.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: New York is moving in that direction.
[31:15.060 --> 31:16.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hopefully other states will follow too.
[31:16.360 --> 31:18.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Here's another bit of good news you might have heard of.
[31:18.720 --> 31:30.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: Regulators declared victory on Friday after Comcast and Time Warner Cable confirmed that they had aborted their $45 billion merger.
[31:30.640 --> 31:31.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wow.
[31:31.580 --> 31:39.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: Which would have created a truly national cable company with unprecedented control over the future of the country's television and broadband markets.
[31:40.280 --> 31:48.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: That deal would have brought together the country's two largest cable operators at a time when the Internet acts as the ultimate gateway for information and entertainment.
[31:48.520 --> 32:01.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: When vast technology changes revolutionize how people watch and pay for television, they would have controlled as much as 57% of the nation's broadband market, just under 30% of paid television service.
[32:02.680 --> 32:04.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the feds didn't go for it.
[32:05.080 --> 32:10.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, you know, I think a lot of this has to do with all the talk recently about net neutrality.
[32:10.420 --> 32:19.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: We've been having this debate for a couple of years now, and I think that it was particularly bad timing for them to propose this mega merger.
[32:19.640 --> 32:29.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it just, fortunately, we have right now an administration that sees that, and, you know, a few years ago, that would not have been the case.
[32:29.160 --> 32:30.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: We could have been stuck with this.
[32:30.260 --> 32:42.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I mean, I'm really excited that this merger, which would have been terrible for people, has been beat back, although there's still a lot more work to be done on ensuring actual competition in the broadband industry.
[32:43.000 --> 32:55.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, the lack of one entity controlling, you know, a real and actual majority of the market will make that fight a little bit easier.
[32:55.040 --> 33:07.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it was pretty, you know, encouraging to see this, especially for people who remember the bell breakup and the aftermath of that and who saw it all happen before, basically, when one entity is in too much control.
[33:08.300 --> 33:13.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I can't say I was actually all that hopeful that it would come out well for anyone.
[33:13.680 --> 33:26.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's still, I guess, not what I'd call a good situation because they're still both kind of objectively terrible companies doing things in terrible ways, but at least they're two different companies still doing things in terrible ways against each other rather than as one.
[33:26.960 --> 33:31.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is more time for independent ISPs to start springing up everywhere.
[33:31.800 --> 33:41.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: And just like dial-up and stuff back in the day, I really wish people would take an interest in their infrastructure instead of letting these companies persist and get larger and larger.
[33:42.360 --> 33:45.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, it's not... infrastructure doesn't have to be hard.
[33:45.180 --> 33:50.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's maybe not as glamorous a topic, but this is case in point.
[33:50.260 --> 33:53.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Otherwise, these companies just get huge and continue to be terrible.
[33:53.420 --> 34:07.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: And one of the grassroots organizers that was opposed to this whole merger in the first place said this is a victory not only for the Department of Justice, but also for providers of content and streaming services who work to bring innovative products to consumers across America and around the world.
[34:07.720 --> 34:10.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, that was Attorney General Eric Holder that said that.
[34:10.580 --> 34:16.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: But just, you know, imagine, you know, eight years ago, that would not have been said by the Attorney General.
[34:16.460 --> 34:19.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: So when they get it right, I think we need to acknowledge that.
[34:19.860 --> 34:21.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: We certainly acknowledge when they get it wrong.
[34:21.620 --> 34:23.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Was that like his last speech as Attorney General?
[34:23.440 --> 34:24.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have a new one now.
[34:24.260 --> 34:26.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, yeah, I guess it was his swan song.
[34:26.940 --> 34:27.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's pretty good.
[34:27.840 --> 34:33.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think when people see the end of their employment, they start taking more chances and saying what's really on their minds.
[34:34.080 --> 34:36.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, as a performer, I know you want to go out on a high note if you can.
[34:37.300 --> 34:39.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, let's just hope that that stays put.
[34:39.300 --> 34:41.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: It doesn't happen again down the road.
[34:42.140 --> 34:44.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, we can be vigilant about this.
[34:44.240 --> 34:48.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have to be vigilant about this because these things are always going to be a threat.
[34:48.500 --> 34:48.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Absolutely.
[34:49.520 --> 34:51.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just like the cybersecurity bill.
[34:51.560 --> 34:52.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: You guys know about this?
[34:52.660 --> 34:54.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bernie, you've heard about the cybersecurity bill, right?
[34:54.680 --> 34:55.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I've heard a little bit about it.
[34:55.960 --> 34:57.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's so sad.
[34:58.180 --> 34:59.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was a close vote.
[35:00.060 --> 35:03.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was 355 to 63 in the House.
[35:04.960 --> 35:06.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was, oh boy.
[35:07.780 --> 35:17.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, speaking in support of the measure before the vote, one of the congressmen said that people always ask me what keeps me up at night.
[35:17.640 --> 35:21.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: It is a cyber attack against this nation that concerns me the most.
[35:22.180 --> 35:22.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Really?
[35:22.700 --> 35:25.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's what concerns you the most, a cyber attack.
[35:26.440 --> 35:29.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not a comet, maybe, or something.
[35:30.660 --> 35:34.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, so that passed by a wide margin.
[35:34.860 --> 35:40.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: Representative Michael McCaul of Austin, John Ratcliffe of Heath, which is in Texas.
[35:40.100 --> 35:42.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: They both sponsored, they're both in Texas.
[35:42.360 --> 35:51.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: They sponsored the National Cybersecurity Protection Act, which passed out of the House Homeland Security Committee earlier this month.
[35:51.320 --> 35:54.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: And of course, the White House has said that they support this.
[35:54.400 --> 35:57.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: I imagine there's a bill in the Senate that's about to pass.
[35:57.260 --> 36:00.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, why are we opposed to this?
[36:00.700 --> 36:02.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Does anybody want to put that into words?
[36:02.640 --> 36:03.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: What's bad about it?
[36:03.440 --> 36:03.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go ahead, Bernie.
[36:04.160 --> 36:06.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: I can say from this article here written by Andy Greenberg...
[36:06.660 --> 36:08.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: We only have 25 minutes, so make it quick.
[36:09.020 --> 36:24.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: It says this bill would significantly, or it does now, significantly increase the NSA's access to our personal information and authorize the federal government to use that information for a myriad of purposes unrelated to cybersecurity.
[36:24.960 --> 36:39.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: And this is from a letter signed by 55 civil liberties groups and security experts that includes the ACLU, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the Freedom of the Press Foundation, Human Rights Watch, and many other of our friends like this.
[36:39.860 --> 36:46.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's really disappointing that this passed without any real public debate.
[36:46.400 --> 36:47.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: But hardly surprising.
[36:47.840 --> 36:59.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, Bernie, of course, the only way this can pass is without any real public debate because we've successfully blocked some bad bills through organizing and the like.
[37:00.380 --> 37:11.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they are learning something that they've known about for a long time in other areas, which is that you have to do this stuff quickly without the public noticing so that no one can organize against it.
[37:11.280 --> 37:13.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that way you can just pass this stuff.
[37:13.520 --> 37:13.660]  Yep.
[37:13.940 --> 37:16.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to have to cyber in more creative ways, though.
[37:17.200 --> 37:18.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: I suppose so.
[37:19.220 --> 37:19.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[37:19.800 --> 37:20.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: So that's something to...
[37:21.140 --> 37:22.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, keep watching C-SPAN, folks.
[37:22.760 --> 37:24.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's how you learn about these things.
[37:24.120 --> 37:29.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's how you see what people are actually saying, people that you elect or people that are elected to represent you.
[37:29.480 --> 37:33.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, most of this stuff has to be stopped before it gets to the C-SPAN phase, but...
[37:33.860 --> 37:35.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, they haven't voted on it yet.
[37:35.720 --> 37:37.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you can certainly...
[37:37.000 --> 37:38.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Didn't you just tell me the vote?
[37:38.600 --> 37:38.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[37:39.040 --> 37:43.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I'm saying if people were watching C-SPAN before the vote, now it's too late, obviously, for that.
[37:43.460 --> 37:44.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: Although it hasn't been signed into law yet.
[37:45.040 --> 37:48.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: So if people get educated, it's never really too late.
[37:48.820 --> 37:49.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[37:49.200 --> 37:49.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Moving on.
[37:49.820 --> 37:53.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I want to take some phone calls because this might be our last chance in quite a while.
[37:53.840 --> 37:57.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have the move coming up next week, and we have a fundraiser.
[37:57.860 --> 38:00.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: So those two things preclude us from taking phone calls.
[38:00.620 --> 38:03.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I don't know when the next time we'll be able to take phone calls will be.
[38:03.740 --> 38:04.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: I honestly do not know.
[38:04.920 --> 38:07.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't think the phone lines are set up in the new facility yet.
[38:07.320 --> 38:08.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: So it could be a while.
[38:09.100 --> 38:11.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2900 is our telephone number.
[38:11.360 --> 38:12.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, what's going to happen when you call that number?
[38:12.760 --> 38:16.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: It'll ring a lot, and then it'll probably disconnect or transfer you someplace you don't want to go.
[38:16.700 --> 38:18.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: When that happens, call back.
[38:18.120 --> 38:18.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[38:18.560 --> 38:20.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we'll try and get everybody on the air.
[38:21.000 --> 38:22.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: We'll try to get as many people on as possible.
[38:22.480 --> 38:32.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I'm not going to go to the phones until I see at least six lines ringing, because sometimes we just get little tones and funny noises, and then we have to fill time while it populates again.
[38:33.160 --> 38:35.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bernie, what's this I hear about you running for president?
[38:35.620 --> 38:36.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: I just got a bulletin.
[38:36.420 --> 38:36.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bernie S.
[38:36.900 --> 38:37.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: running for president?
[38:37.480 --> 38:37.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: What's this about?
[38:38.760 --> 38:39.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah.
[38:39.560 --> 38:40.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Bernie S.
[38:40.140 --> 38:40.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: is running for president.
[38:40.900 --> 38:42.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Actually, it's Bernie Sanders.
[38:43.820 --> 38:45.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: He may be my favorite senator, U.S.
[38:45.600 --> 38:45.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: senator.
[38:46.000 --> 38:47.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, the guy, the socialist.
[38:47.800 --> 38:48.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, the socialist.
[38:49.200 --> 38:49.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Vermont.
[38:49.800 --> 38:50.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Vermont, yes.
[38:50.540 --> 38:52.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: He just announced he's running for president.
[38:52.540 --> 38:53.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: He's got my vote.
[38:53.420 --> 38:53.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm telling you.
[38:54.240 --> 38:55.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: How are you related to him?
[38:55.860 --> 38:56.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not.
[38:56.420 --> 38:59.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: We just happen to say or share the same first name and last initial.
[39:00.080 --> 39:01.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you had it first, right?
[39:01.200 --> 39:02.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, okay.
[39:02.500 --> 39:03.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's going to confuse a lot of people.
[39:05.640 --> 39:06.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, he just announced...
[39:06.820 --> 39:08.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, he's going to announce...
[39:09.980 --> 39:12.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: His staff has announced that he's going to announce soon.
[39:12.540 --> 39:12.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: So...
[39:12.860 --> 39:14.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: So there's going to be some competition.
[39:14.440 --> 39:15.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, I...
[39:15.580 --> 39:23.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is the kind of demographic that would vote for Bernie Sanders, the kind of people that would probably vote for Elizabeth Warren, who has announced she's not going to run.
[39:24.080 --> 39:27.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I'm enthusiastic that we have more voices like this in the race.
[39:27.640 --> 39:30.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: I know, you know, people use blackmail a lot to prevent people from running.
[39:31.140 --> 39:34.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is there any way we can use blackmail to force Elizabeth Warren to run?
[39:34.500 --> 39:38.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I just wonder if anybody have anything in her closet that...
[39:38.000 --> 39:39.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: I just...
[39:39.440 --> 39:40.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: That really frustrates me.
[39:40.600 --> 39:46.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: But hopefully, yeah, this other Bernie S will force Hillary Clinton to maybe answer a question or two.
[39:46.640 --> 39:47.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: That would be nice.
[39:47.920 --> 39:52.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I actually think it's probably smart politics for Elizabeth Warren not to run this cycle.
[39:52.940 --> 40:02.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: And so it'll be fun to have Bernie Sanders in the race and hopefully get Hillary Clinton at least to acknowledge the existence of progressives.
[40:02.920 --> 40:04.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: How about if she's vice president then?
[40:04.920 --> 40:05.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can we get that?
[40:05.620 --> 40:07.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hillary Clinton, Elizabeth Warren, that ticket?
[40:07.480 --> 40:08.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: And look, look, fine with me.
[40:09.100 --> 40:13.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, first woman president, but not only that, two female candidates in the same ticket.
[40:14.040 --> 40:20.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, if it's up to me, well, I'm still not sold on Hillary, but if it's up to me, then that sounds fine.
[40:20.860 --> 40:22.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bernie S can be attorney general.
[40:22.840 --> 40:23.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Are you all right with that, Bernie?
[40:24.700 --> 40:25.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, that's right.
[40:25.220 --> 40:25.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not you.
[40:25.800 --> 40:27.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's Bernie Sanders.
[40:27.460 --> 40:28.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: Already I'm confused.
[40:28.420 --> 40:28.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not you.
[40:28.840 --> 40:29.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: I realize that now.
[40:29.620 --> 40:30.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's the guy from Vermont.
[40:30.360 --> 40:30.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[40:30.840 --> 40:34.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's going to be interesting, though, if we make it interesting.
[40:34.480 --> 40:34.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[40:34.780 --> 40:37.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: If we're not careful, we'll all accidentally vote for the wrong Bernie S.
[40:37.260 --> 40:38.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then, Bernie, you'll have to go and be president.
[40:38.920 --> 40:40.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: So apologies in advance if that happens.
[40:41.260 --> 40:41.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[40:41.420 --> 40:41.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: See what happened?
[40:41.880 --> 40:42.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: We had a full switchboard.
[40:43.000 --> 40:45.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now we only have one because they all got transferred away someplace.
[40:46.080 --> 40:47.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, folks, wherever you are, hang up.
[40:47.820 --> 40:48.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Call back.
[40:48.560 --> 40:50.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2900.
[40:50.020 --> 40:57.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: This story, which kind of frightens me, glitch with pilots' iPad app delays American Airlines flights.
[40:58.040 --> 41:07.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: American Airlines experienced an iPad meltdown on Tuesday when several flights were temporarily grounded by a software glitch with a handheld device.
[41:08.180 --> 41:10.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Airlines are running through iPads?
[41:10.900 --> 41:11.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is that really a thing?
[41:12.460 --> 41:15.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's this game where you have to fling the planes at, like, piles of pigs or something.
[41:16.040 --> 41:16.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, please, no.
[41:17.000 --> 41:24.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, it's actually a lot of pilots use the iPad for navigation and running, you know, loading up maps and stuff like that.
[41:24.040 --> 41:29.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a convenient and really big screen that you can open up and have in your briefcase.
[41:29.440 --> 41:31.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, but don't the airlines already have something like that?
[41:31.280 --> 41:32.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, they should have, right?
[41:32.500 --> 41:37.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, the alternative is carrying around big binders of paper, and this is an improvement.
[41:37.980 --> 41:39.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: It can't be built into the console?
[41:40.180 --> 41:41.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: They never thought of that?
[41:41.340 --> 41:42.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Like, why should it be?
[41:43.080 --> 41:44.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, Mike's absolutely right.
[41:44.060 --> 41:48.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: They had, like, huge binders, and it would have all the tower frequencies for different airports.
[41:48.720 --> 42:01.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you think it's a better idea to have something that belongs to the pilot or that is outside the aircraft and brought in each time that could be subjected to, well, exactly what happened, rather than have something that's hardwired into the plane as default.
[42:01.460 --> 42:09.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Then you have to, like, connect the plane to the Internet in order to get new data onto it, which, you know, and new data is coming in all the time.
[42:09.940 --> 42:17.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: That seems harder to me than giving every pilot, you know, a not very expensive consumer electronic.
[42:17.580 --> 42:20.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is this part of the whole fear of the airplane being hacked by the Internet somehow?
[42:20.780 --> 42:23.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: It just seems like a lot of work to run an Ethernet cable to an airplane.
[42:23.920 --> 42:26.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, they did that on one of those TV shows.
[42:26.200 --> 42:28.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: They ran it down the plane and into a car.
[42:28.240 --> 42:29.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I saw that on the Internet.
[42:29.980 --> 42:30.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[42:30.520 --> 42:31.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's based on reality.
[42:31.460 --> 42:33.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I don't think this is issued by the airline in any way.
[42:33.740 --> 42:39.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think this is for pilots, like, who have a preference or this to augment the equipment that they do have access to.
[42:39.900 --> 42:40.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's just another tool.
[42:41.080 --> 42:45.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's in lieu of carrying, like, a Jepsen airway manual or something like that.
[42:45.660 --> 42:46.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: But it's...
[42:46.400 --> 42:46.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[42:46.820 --> 42:47.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[42:47.200 --> 42:48.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it's...
[42:48.280 --> 42:52.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: But the things went down and airlines weren't able to operate.
[42:52.280 --> 42:55.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think he's plugging it in to, like, even charge it in the plane.
[42:56.140 --> 43:00.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, well, if you're a pilot, let us know just what you do with your iPad in the cockpit there.
[43:00.940 --> 43:02.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2900.
[43:02.180 --> 43:03.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's see if we can take some phone calls.
[43:03.360 --> 43:03.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[43:03.820 --> 43:04.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're on Off The Hook.
[43:05.620 --> 43:07.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, let me turn the radio down.
[43:07.440 --> 43:07.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[43:10.180 --> 43:11.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hopefully it's not in a different room.
[43:13.320 --> 43:14.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, she should be on the way back now.
[43:16.580 --> 43:17.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, good evening.
[43:18.000 --> 43:18.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, how are you doing?
[43:18.620 --> 43:28.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: I want to ask you guys if you've done any report on what's called uninterruptible...
[43:29.240 --> 43:30.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm blanking on it now.
[43:30.500 --> 43:35.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: But one version of it is a fly-by-wire, so you can put it in your search engine.
[43:36.100 --> 43:42.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Please, let's stop saying Google and making them more of a CIA hill and monopolist.
[43:43.040 --> 43:44.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's called uninterruptible.
[43:45.200 --> 43:46.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was developed by Boeing.
[43:47.140 --> 43:48.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: And what it is...
[43:48.640 --> 43:52.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is also before the false flag of September 11th, 01.
[43:53.540 --> 44:09.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: And what it is, is a way where they would allegedly prevent hijackings because, in other words, they can actually take over the plane and, you know, fly it or land it.
[44:09.520 --> 44:21.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, of course, I'm sure there's a lot on the Internet about what happened with the MI-370 and, you know, the Malaysian-17, et cetera, et cetera, because those are some mysteries.
[44:21.760 --> 44:23.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's called uninterruptible.
[44:23.480 --> 44:26.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, in fact, put it in your search engine.
[44:28.080 --> 44:31.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's also fly-by-wire, and the other version of it should come up.
[44:31.600 --> 44:41.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: But I'd like to know if you've done any report on that or any discussion on that remote, you know, flying of...
[44:41.200 --> 44:41.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[44:41.560 --> 44:44.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'll ask the people here, and please listen on the radio.
[44:45.480 --> 44:48.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anybody have anything on this?
[44:48.240 --> 44:48.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Emmanuel.
[44:48.880 --> 44:49.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go ahead, Bernie.
[44:49.940 --> 45:04.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think what she may be calling in about is technology being worked on to allow passenger airlines and maybe other airplanes to be flown remotely by the airlines without having to pay pilots to sit in there.
[45:04.760 --> 45:09.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: We've got to have two pilots there now in case one drops dead, the other one can take over sort of thing.
[45:09.520 --> 45:11.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: But there's a lot of problems with that.
[45:11.160 --> 45:13.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can't react as quickly remotely.
[45:13.780 --> 45:17.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: When you're in the cockpit, you can feel, you know, turbulence and all these things.
[45:18.320 --> 45:20.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think you really need...
[45:20.500 --> 45:30.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: The response time with a human being in the cockpit is much preferable than having that data fed by wire or by, you know, some wireless technology.
[45:30.920 --> 45:32.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: We'd have to go up to a satellite.
[45:32.320 --> 45:34.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: There'd be a satellite delay and all these other things.
[45:34.760 --> 45:39.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's a bad idea to fly passenger airlines by wire from a remote site.
[45:39.200 --> 45:41.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: I just think it's stupid, and we need real-life pilots.
[45:41.820 --> 45:48.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and definitely you could... you'd then open it up to be being technically hijacked in some way or another.
[45:49.060 --> 45:57.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's certainly not impossible, though, considering the amount of technology that has been put into remote piloting of, say, drones.
[45:58.460 --> 46:06.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: But again, there's obviously a lot more that the pilot can feel as far as sensory inputs than...
[46:06.260 --> 46:10.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: as opposed to a remote control instance like what you said, Bernie.
[46:10.420 --> 46:14.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Would this be something that people are advocating replace as a pilot?
[46:14.840 --> 46:20.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or simply, if something happens to the pilot, this is a backup, which is better than nothing?
[46:21.060 --> 46:22.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'd say the latter.
[46:22.400 --> 46:22.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[46:22.720 --> 46:22.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[46:23.080 --> 46:24.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: More so the latter.
[46:24.900 --> 46:33.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, maybe give it a generation of unmanned cars, you know, on the roads and seeing how good or bad they are before applying the concept to aircraft.
[46:33.480 --> 46:34.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Google planes, okay.
[46:34.880 --> 46:35.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Google planes.
[46:35.420 --> 46:40.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Also, I'm in favor of what the caller was talking about so far as genericizing the trademark of Google.
[46:40.420 --> 46:42.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: And allowing sentences like, I do my Googling with DuckDuckGo.
[46:43.020 --> 46:45.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, we said favorite search engine before.
[46:45.280 --> 46:47.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I think we try as much as we can.
[46:47.600 --> 46:49.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's see if we can get another phone call, too.
[46:49.560 --> 46:49.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[46:49.920 --> 46:50.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're on Off The Hook.
[46:52.140 --> 46:52.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Speak up.
[46:52.680 --> 46:52.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go ahead.
[46:53.620 --> 46:53.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: WBAI?
[46:54.080 --> 46:54.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, you're on the air.
[46:55.880 --> 46:56.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[46:57.020 --> 46:57.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go ahead.
[46:58.580 --> 47:15.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so while we're on the subject, how about the drone pilots being replaced by an automatic system where they can eliminate the drone pilot altogether so they stop having these issues that people are getting upset with blowing up children and things like that.
[47:15.340 --> 47:22.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: So we can blow up children without any kind of worry about the mental anguish that we would suffer as a result.
[47:22.560 --> 47:24.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's in the pipeline.
[47:24.400 --> 47:26.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a robot control system.
[47:26.560 --> 47:27.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: They set the target.
[47:28.000 --> 47:29.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: They push the button.
[47:29.160 --> 47:30.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: And there is no pilot.
[47:31.460 --> 47:32.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's just a computer.
[47:32.720 --> 47:35.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's kind of the epitome of a drone, I would think.
[47:36.660 --> 47:41.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's in the pipeline and they're getting ready to sign off on it, so just for fun.
[47:41.300 --> 47:45.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: I can't say I'm surprised in the slightest at that, and that's kind of sad.
[47:45.920 --> 47:47.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: You do much too good a work up there.
[47:48.020 --> 47:49.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you very, very much.
[47:49.120 --> 47:51.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: We'll try to tone it down a bit then.
[47:52.040 --> 47:53.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2900.
[47:53.560 --> 47:53.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[47:53.980 --> 47:54.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're on Off The Hook.
[47:56.000 --> 47:56.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Speak up.
[47:57.600 --> 47:58.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello, hello.
[47:58.300 --> 47:58.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, go ahead.
[47:59.620 --> 48:10.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm curious about the automobile thing, where a lot of times, like, hot riders want to change electronics, you know, to get a different performance.
[48:11.900 --> 48:13.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a regular practice.
[48:13.460 --> 48:21.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: And are they not going to be able to do that, or would they have to go to the manufacturer exclusively to do that, if that was passed?
[48:22.320 --> 48:25.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, as of now, I mean, it's really difficult.
[48:25.040 --> 48:29.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, there's a lot of third-party companies that probably have relationships with manufacturers.
[48:30.020 --> 48:37.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: In other words, they can license, uh, attributes of protocols and then create a product, um, that interfaces with the vehicle.
[48:37.840 --> 48:45.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: So there is, um, uh, aftermarket, like, aftermarket ignitions and these kinds of things that do run separate computers.
[48:46.000 --> 48:56.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: But oftentimes, you'd have to delete the entire, um, stock, uh, electronic system or, or have it run side-by-side, uh, and so on.
[48:56.380 --> 48:58.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, uh, absolutely, I mean...
[48:58.420 --> 49:04.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: It is or would be a legal workaround, but they have to, uh, pay for the rights.
[49:04.300 --> 49:04.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[49:04.680 --> 49:05.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: You end up...
[49:05.760 --> 49:11.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like selling, um, buying 10, um, downloads of XP or something.
[49:12.560 --> 49:13.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Correct.
[49:13.300 --> 49:25.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, you'd, you'd maybe, and I know some, um, I'm not going to start throwing manufacturer names out there, but there are some companies that have limited amounts of VIN numbers that can work on certain types of vehicles and it has to be programmed for various,
[49:25.720 --> 49:33.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: uh, things that, you know, and you, you license it for, in other words, however many cars, you know, unlimited numbers of vehicles versus another product.
[49:33.680 --> 49:44.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it varies, but there's certainly a market there, but it is, they're charging you, they're passing along the cost that the manufacturers charge them to license it, to work on it at all.
[49:44.420 --> 49:47.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: So you end up paying that, you know, a couple hundred dollars more.
[49:47.180 --> 49:52.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, you know, you end up getting it into the costs of tools and tools are quite expensive.
[49:52.400 --> 49:53.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right.
[49:53.520 --> 49:53.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[49:53.760 --> 49:54.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks, uh, thanks for your call.
[49:55.380 --> 49:56.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: And donate to WBAI.
[49:56.860 --> 49:57.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[49:57.280 --> 49:58.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you very much.
[49:58.500 --> 50:00.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, we should do that too, as well as our listeners.
[50:01.340 --> 50:03.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, but Kyle, you mentioned something and I think this is kind of cool.
[50:03.360 --> 50:10.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe people don't know this, but mechanics use the word delete in an interesting way when they're talking about, uh, features or something.
[50:11.200 --> 50:12.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: How exactly is it applied?
[50:12.340 --> 50:14.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, I don't know where it comes from.
[50:14.300 --> 50:17.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a, definitely a tuner term, terminology.
[50:17.460 --> 50:17.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's jargon.
[50:18.220 --> 50:18.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: Give me an example.
[50:18.560 --> 50:19.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Like how would it be used?
[50:19.680 --> 50:24.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, you could do like a door handle delete or you could...
[50:24.340 --> 50:25.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Delete the door handles?
[50:25.220 --> 50:28.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or you could delete, uh, attributes, features.
[50:28.260 --> 50:33.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Like you could, I, like I've done conversions and deleted the air conditioning because it's extra weight and...
[50:33.620 --> 50:35.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: So by deleted the air conditioning, you mean removed the air conditioning?
[50:36.000 --> 50:40.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: I removed the air conditioning compressor and made the belt smaller so that the, the only accessory was the alternator.
[50:40.980 --> 50:41.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's stuff like that.
[50:41.560 --> 50:42.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Have mechanics always talked that way?
[50:43.100 --> 50:44.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not sure.
[50:44.060 --> 50:45.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not really sure where it comes from.
[50:45.260 --> 50:48.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: I can't imagine him in the 1940s talking about deleting something, but...
[50:48.720 --> 50:53.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I think it's more of like an 80s parlance because of the relationship to computing, but I don't know.
[50:54.260 --> 51:01.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, Kyle, I'm pretty much the opposite of an automobile expert, but deleting the door handle seems unwise to me.
[51:01.460 --> 51:07.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you could have remote doors that open via button or some other crazy weirdness.
[51:07.820 --> 51:11.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're deleting one door handle, but you're installing another one.
[51:11.540 --> 51:14.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: You could also say that you have shaved door handles.
[51:14.860 --> 51:15.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's all kinds of stuff.
[51:16.100 --> 51:19.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: We don't have to get into that right now, but we are going to try to take some more phone calls.
[51:19.420 --> 51:20.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: 212-209-2900.
[51:21.720 --> 51:23.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: This could be the last phone calls we take in a while.
[51:24.140 --> 51:26.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: It might even be the last time we ever give out this phone number.
[51:26.380 --> 51:26.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[51:26.700 --> 51:28.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can we have a 212 number in Brooklyn?
[51:28.140 --> 51:28.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is that legal?
[51:29.000 --> 51:29.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[51:29.840 --> 51:30.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[51:30.300 --> 51:30.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[51:30.580 --> 51:31.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's easy.
[51:31.200 --> 51:32.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I don't know if we'll get it, but it's legal.
[51:33.000 --> 51:33.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[51:33.620 --> 51:34.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's take a phone call.
[51:34.300 --> 51:34.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[51:34.600 --> 51:35.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're on Off The Hook.
[51:36.660 --> 51:37.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Speak up.
[51:38.460 --> 51:38.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[51:38.940 --> 51:40.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's not really needed.
[51:40.240 --> 51:40.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[51:40.520 --> 51:41.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're on Off The Hook.
[51:42.440 --> 51:43.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go ahead.
[51:44.040 --> 51:44.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hi.
[51:44.640 --> 51:48.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you're talking about copyrights in cars.
[51:49.020 --> 52:03.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: Copyright holders have an exclusive right to copy their own work, but if they use that right to monopolize a market that they don't have exclusive rights to, such as car repair, then they've committed an antitrust violation, and they call that violation tying,
[52:03.920 --> 52:08.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: because they're tying a legitimate monopoly to an unpermissible monopoly.
[52:08.580 --> 52:12.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Until they change the law and make it so that they can do exactly that.
[52:13.060 --> 52:13.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[52:13.540 --> 52:27.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, it would be a thing you might have to argue, because how much copying does it take to do a car repair without authorization from the copyright owner?
[52:27.800 --> 52:40.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: There was a case years ago where somebody did a repair of a design-patented car top, which is a little different than copywriting.
[52:42.600 --> 52:49.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the court said as long as it's not a full rebuild, the design patent holder doesn't have a right to regulate that.
[52:50.780 --> 52:52.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: So that could be...
[52:52.900 --> 52:54.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: It could be...
[52:54.300 --> 53:07.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you had a bunch of guys who are finding themselves pushed out of the repair market because of these copyright policies, they could get together and finance an antitrust suit against the manufacturers that are trying to do it.
[53:07.620 --> 53:11.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: But the other thing that people could do is vote with their wallets and buy cars that don't do that.
[53:12.440 --> 53:12.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[53:12.780 --> 53:19.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, stick with the manufacturers that are less hostile to home mechanics and independent repairs.
[53:19.620 --> 53:21.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, do we know of manufacturers that are like that?
[53:23.040 --> 53:23.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[53:23.920 --> 53:24.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[53:24.300 --> 53:26.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, we're going to find out and spread that around.
[53:26.500 --> 53:40.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: But as far as getting together, I definitely think truckers and guys that work on agricultural stuff and consumer electronics, which we discussed was part more of the emphasis on this particular program in New York, those are good groups to get together.
[53:41.060 --> 53:59.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: And there are a lot of smart people that are involved in logistics and transportation and care a great deal about how their engines and equipment works and their ability to understand exactly, you know, the wear and tear and how it's behaving in any given circumstance.
[53:59.260 --> 54:04.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's amazing, too, to see all these communities coming together to talk about technology and control of it.
[54:04.440 --> 54:09.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: I remember you gave a talk down in Virginia, Tiffany Rad's Car Space, with a bunch of mechanics.
[54:09.340 --> 54:13.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: And you were talking to truck drivers about getting control of the technology.
[54:13.860 --> 54:19.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Basically the same conversation we have with hackers, except now it includes people involved with cars and trucks.
[54:19.760 --> 54:25.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it can include any piece of technology because the same issues are going to pop up in all of that.
[54:25.900 --> 54:37.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Also, if the little guys are having difficulty getting the support to deal with the software of these car companies, they could use the threat of an antitrust action.
[54:37.520 --> 54:41.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, you're tying this product to your copyright, and that's illegal.
[54:41.840 --> 54:49.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: Do you want me to bring a suit, or do you want to give me the part I need, or the support I need, or the literature I need?
[54:50.540 --> 54:58.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I found that worked when the Monopoly of Baseball tried to monopolize providing baseball cards.
[54:58.540 --> 55:07.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I said, you know, you've got a congressionally imposed monopoly on baseball, but that doesn't give you any kind of a monopoly over cardboard.
[55:08.360 --> 55:12.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: So if you think you're going to put this together...
[55:12.160 --> 55:15.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: Did you just say that, or did you actually take action against them?
[55:15.260 --> 55:16.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I just said it.
[55:16.320 --> 55:16.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[55:17.040 --> 55:20.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because it sounds like you could bring suit against somebody, and I would definitely...
[55:20.840 --> 55:25.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: You could, but I didn't have to, because that so scared them that they never went after my client again.
[55:25.280 --> 55:25.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, great.
[55:25.880 --> 55:26.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, he is a lawyer.
[55:26.600 --> 55:27.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: I knew you were a lawyer.
[55:27.560 --> 55:33.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, I'm the lawyer who was the last survivor of the people who represented...
[55:33.260 --> 55:35.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: of the firm who represented Major Armstrong.
[55:36.340 --> 55:36.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: Interesting.
[55:37.040 --> 55:37.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: Edwin Armstrong.
[55:38.600 --> 55:39.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[55:39.560 --> 55:40.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, wow, great.
[55:40.880 --> 55:44.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, thanks for calling, and best of luck.
[55:44.100 --> 55:46.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Keep us appraised of any other ideas you might have.
[55:47.000 --> 55:47.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, very good.
[55:47.800 --> 55:47.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[55:48.320 --> 55:48.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[55:48.580 --> 55:52.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's see if we can squeeze in one final call here in Harlem.
[55:52.400 --> 55:53.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: And good evening.
[55:53.720 --> 55:54.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're on Off The Hook.
[55:56.280 --> 55:56.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Speak up.
[55:57.920 --> 56:00.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is the last caller, and they're not saying anything.
[56:00.980 --> 56:01.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Caller, are you there?
[56:02.220 --> 56:02.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, hi.
[56:03.000 --> 56:03.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hi.
[56:03.500 --> 56:04.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hold on, let me...
[56:04.420 --> 56:04.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[56:04.920 --> 56:07.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: I just had a run-in with Verizon.
[56:08.080 --> 56:15.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: I have a jack, and I turned off my phone about eight years ago, and it's a copper wire, and the box is like six feet away behind my house.
[56:15.920 --> 56:17.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: So I said I'd like to...
[56:17.640 --> 56:20.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: I called the number, and I said I'd like to activate the line.
[56:20.860 --> 56:22.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: And so everything is Fios now.
[56:23.140 --> 56:24.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: So they don't tell me that.
[56:24.580 --> 56:33.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: So they take my order, they take my information, and then like three, four hours later, somebody calls me from a Long Island number and says, okay, yeah, we set this up.
[56:33.900 --> 56:35.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is going to be for Fios.
[56:35.200 --> 56:38.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: The guy's going to come and put boxes on your house, and the box has to stay plugged in.
[56:39.480 --> 56:42.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yep, and they basically, they screwed you out of your copper.
[56:42.720 --> 56:43.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sorry, we're out of time.
[56:43.880 --> 56:47.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bernie, maybe you can, in a couple of seconds, sum up what they're doing.
[56:47.760 --> 56:52.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, Verizon is trying really hard to allow their copper, their outside copper plant to rot away.
[56:52.540 --> 56:59.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: So you have to use Fios, which is not subject to Title II regulation, and they can still be a monopoly without all the responsibilities.
[57:00.520 --> 57:01.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[57:01.480 --> 57:05.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's going to have to be the final words from our Harlem studios.
[57:06.240 --> 57:07.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: I know, Rob, you have something to say?
[57:07.960 --> 57:08.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: 2600 meetings.
[57:08.900 --> 57:11.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: This Friday, all over the place, 2600.com/meetings.
[57:12.180 --> 57:12.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[57:12.640 --> 57:15.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we want to, of course, go out with something appropriate.
[57:15.120 --> 57:20.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I think probably the best thing is this song about Harlem from Bill Withers.
[57:20.560 --> 57:28.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bill Withers, amazing musician, just inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame this month, and just the author of so much amazing material.
[57:28.860 --> 57:30.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I'm going to miss Harlem.
[57:30.420 --> 57:31.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'll come back here as much as possible.
[57:32.360 --> 57:34.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: See you next week from Brooklyn.
[57:34.700 --> 57:35.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: Have a good night.