Off The Hook - 2015-06-03

[00:01.610 --> 00:05.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hey, it's Bonnie Raitt and you're listening to WBAI-FM.
[00:05.390 --> 00:06.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: My kind of radio.
[00:06.710 --> 00:07.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: Don't change that dial.
[00:46.340 --> 00:48.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm out of custard.
[00:50.600 --> 00:52.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Drippin' from a thing down side.
[00:54.580 --> 00:57.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Grab a lock, a fish wipe, pornographic business.
[00:57.680 --> 01:00.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Boy, you've been a naughty girl, you left your knickers down.
[01:02.100 --> 01:03.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: I am the Eggman.
[01:04.760 --> 01:06.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: I am the Eggman.
[01:07.520 --> 01:09.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: I am the Warriors.
[01:09.900 --> 01:10.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Look at you.
[01:21.760 --> 01:27.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sitting in my English garden, waiting for the sun.
[01:28.940 --> 01:33.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: If the sun don't come, you get the time from standing in the English room.
[01:46.480 --> 01:49.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Experts, experts, choking smokers.
[01:49.300 --> 01:52.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't you think the Joker laughs to you?
[01:54.240 --> 01:57.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: See how they smile like pigs in the sky.
[01:57.300 --> 01:58.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: See how this night.
[01:59.680 --> 02:00.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm crying.
[02:02.680 --> 02:04.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Settling a picture.
[02:06.580 --> 02:08.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Driving up the iPhone tower.
[02:10.720 --> 02:13.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're a rich woman singing holy Krishna.
[02:13.560 --> 02:15.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we should've seen the kids get hit.
[02:32.180 --> 02:34.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: We've been listening to Music and Technology.
[02:34.600 --> 02:50.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: We heard music by Mozart, John Cage, Conlon Mancaro, Deschano Barrio, Charles Dodge, Walter Carlos, Pierre-Henri, Mario Davidovsky, Yaron Hiller, and Robert Baker, Richard Maxfield, and The Beatles.
[02:50.880 --> 02:53.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: All the music came to you on recording.
[03:40.440 --> 03:41.280]  This
[03:44.340 --> 03:51.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: is listener-sponsored radio, WBAI, broadcasting 99.5 FM in New York City.
[03:52.580 --> 03:57.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Tonight, beginning at midnight, hearings on Intro 475 will be heard.
[03:57.640 --> 04:10.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Last Monday, the General Welfare Committee of the City Council held the third and final day of open hearings on Intro 475, a bill which would outlaw discrimination against homosexuals in hiring and public accommodations.
[04:10.220 --> 04:14.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: At midnight tonight, we'll broadcast the last four hours of the hearings.
[04:15.480 --> 04:21.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Listen to the hearings on Intro 475 tonight, beginning at midnight, here on WBAI.
[04:25.040 --> 04:28.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're now running about 16 minutes behind schedule.
[04:29.400 --> 04:38.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: In 1963, Eric Fromm delivered a series of three weekly lectures at the 92nd Street Y on the psychological roots of war and destruction.
[04:39.440 --> 04:42.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're going to hear the first two lectures in the series next.
[04:43.100 --> 04:46.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Part three will be heard later on this afternoon at about 4.30.
[04:47.060 --> 04:48.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Here is the first lecture.
[04:49.280 --> 04:59.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: The topic of this lecture is the psychological of these lectures is the psychological roots of war and destructiveness.
[04:59.440 --> 05:00.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, hold on, hold on.
[05:00.600 --> 05:01.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sorry, folks.
[05:01.420 --> 05:03.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: We accidentally wound up back in 1972.
[05:04.780 --> 05:07.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Fast forward, 2015, off the hook.
[05:12.890 --> 05:14.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: The telephone keeps ringing.
[05:15.150 --> 05:17.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I ripped it off the wall.
[05:18.350 --> 05:20.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: I cut myself while shaving.
[05:21.030 --> 05:22.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now I can't make a cough.
[05:23.770 --> 05:25.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: We couldn't get much worse.
[05:28.510 --> 05:31.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Fun diddly bum for the best, expect the worst.
[05:31.730 --> 05:33.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: I hope that's understood.
[05:34.030 --> 05:34.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Fun diddly bum!
[05:44.010 --> 05:46.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: And a very good evening heard by the program is off the hook.
[05:46.350 --> 05:48.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you joined tonight by Mike.
[05:48.790 --> 05:49.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[05:49.470 --> 05:49.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: Rob T. Firefly.
[05:50.510 --> 05:50.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[05:51.070 --> 05:51.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Kyle.
[05:51.710 --> 05:51.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hola.
[05:52.790 --> 05:54.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: And Bernie S.
[05:54.950 --> 05:56.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Greetings from Philadelphia.
[05:56.750 --> 05:57.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[05:57.310 --> 06:02.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: And just to explain a little bit what you heard just now, all kinds of chaos going on here.
[06:03.270 --> 06:07.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: But Kyle, I think you and I can sort of explain what we just heard from 1972.
[06:07.110 --> 06:10.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: That was actually a WBAI recording from 1972.
[06:10.170 --> 06:16.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: We used to announce like a train how late we are in our program because it always got out of schedule.
[06:16.630 --> 06:17.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't even listen back then.
[06:17.610 --> 06:20.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was just a kid, so I wasn't able to appreciate this.
[06:20.170 --> 06:20.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it mattered.
[06:21.070 --> 06:21.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: It did.
[06:21.990 --> 06:22.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: What mattered?
[06:22.990 --> 06:23.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: To be on time.
[06:24.050 --> 06:24.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, to be on time.
[06:24.490 --> 06:25.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: It usually does.
[06:26.550 --> 06:33.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the interesting thing about all that was that it came off a reel-to-reel tape that we are encoding for a friend of ours.
[06:34.250 --> 06:40.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Basically, her dad made all these recordings of WBAI and other radio stations in New York and it was about to be trashed.
[06:41.570 --> 06:44.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we found ourselves a little reel-to-reel tape recorder and we're encoding it.
[06:44.730 --> 06:47.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're finding all kinds of gems like that.
[06:47.130 --> 06:47.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know?
[06:47.730 --> 06:49.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is what WBAI has always been about.
[06:49.730 --> 06:52.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's always been about broadcasting interesting topics.
[06:52.990 --> 07:04.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: So maybe we don't do four hours of a lecture at midnight, but we could and we've always been at the center of all the controversy and all the forward thinking.
[07:04.730 --> 07:13.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's a cool time capsule to unearth these treasures of history and stuff that may not have been saved otherwise.
[07:13.510 --> 07:19.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's also cool the recording method is a tape style that I wasn't familiar with.
[07:19.750 --> 07:22.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was obviously a little bit before my time.
[07:22.010 --> 07:25.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: I was familiar with like tape decks and tape recorders like cassettes.
[07:25.830 --> 07:35.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: But to be able to work with this and restore and then be able to manipulate with a lot of new technology too to restore it.
[07:35.990 --> 07:36.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's really cool.
[07:37.250 --> 07:40.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: There was one that we were working on that you could barely hear anything.
[07:40.230 --> 07:41.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was so faint.
[07:41.090 --> 07:41.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
[07:41.750 --> 07:54.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then through the magic of like a couple plugins and some restoration stuff, you could filter it and really hear this stuff and go back and try to figure out what the context was.
[07:54.730 --> 07:56.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Old technology meets new technology.
[07:56.750 --> 08:01.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: And yes, new technology was able to save this little bit of old history for reel-to-reel tape.
[08:02.050 --> 08:06.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: And what you were mentioning before, yes, you can get four different channels on a single reel.
[08:06.170 --> 08:10.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: So one of the small reels, not a big reel, small reel, you could have four channels.
[08:10.390 --> 08:13.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: And at the slowest speed, it could be three hours per channel.
[08:13.270 --> 08:15.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: So you could get 12 hours on a small tape like that.
[08:15.690 --> 08:16.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: It wouldn't sound very good.
[08:16.610 --> 08:19.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: The speed we're working at is the slow speed, three and three quarters.
[08:19.410 --> 08:20.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we get 90 minutes per channel.
[08:20.910 --> 08:21.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: So about six hours.
[08:21.990 --> 08:23.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: When you say small, you mean?
[08:23.690 --> 08:25.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean the size of your head.
[08:25.670 --> 08:26.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, not that big.
[08:27.210 --> 08:27.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's see.
[08:28.050 --> 08:28.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: How...
[08:28.410 --> 08:29.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: What would you say?
[08:29.550 --> 08:30.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Seven inch reel?
[08:30.250 --> 08:31.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a seven inch reel.
[08:31.130 --> 08:32.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's what it is, as opposed to a ten inch reel.
[08:33.010 --> 08:33.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right, right.
[08:33.470 --> 08:37.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like a small, like a salad plate or a soup bowl.
[08:37.710 --> 08:37.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's...
[08:37.990 --> 08:40.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, some people eat big salads, so it wouldn't really help.
[08:40.470 --> 08:40.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's...
[08:40.850 --> 08:42.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, maybe a Frisbee.
[08:42.610 --> 08:43.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: What are you saying about the size of my head?
[08:44.050 --> 08:44.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: Frisbees also...
[08:44.750 --> 08:46.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, we'll have to get back to that later.
[08:46.310 --> 08:49.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: But Frisbees are also variable size, you know?
[08:49.630 --> 08:51.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, disc golfing Frisbee, then.
[08:51.310 --> 08:53.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: The size of a 2600 mouse pad.
[08:53.430 --> 08:53.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: How about that?
[08:54.090 --> 08:58.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: And if you pledged for our premium last week, you would know how big that was, because I was one of them.
[08:59.110 --> 09:00.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: And we can get those?
[09:01.130 --> 09:02.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's being offered tonight as well?
[09:02.710 --> 09:03.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think so.
[09:03.590 --> 09:06.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think that's part of the package that's sold out immediately.
[09:06.270 --> 09:07.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hope so.
[09:07.370 --> 09:07.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[09:07.770 --> 09:08.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you can always...
[09:08.530 --> 09:09.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have one, so you can always look at it.
[09:10.290 --> 09:11.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, I know you've worked with reel-to-reel tapes.
[09:12.030 --> 09:12.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Have you not?
[09:13.150 --> 09:15.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have several reel-to-reel decks.
[09:15.390 --> 09:24.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: I like finding reels of tape that are in thrift stores and things that people have recorded at home, like a New Year's Eve party from 1958.
[09:24.510 --> 09:26.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's weird stuff you find.
[09:26.790 --> 09:28.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's fun.
[09:28.770 --> 09:32.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Before that, I have some spools of wire.
[09:32.450 --> 09:37.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Stainless steel wire was used as a recording medium before magnetic tape.
[09:37.470 --> 09:41.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've never understood how anybody figured that was going to work, but it did.
[09:41.690 --> 09:42.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: It worked great.
[09:42.670 --> 09:43.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: It worked great for many years.
[09:44.290 --> 09:46.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, magnetic tape is basically the same thing.
[09:46.510 --> 09:47.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's just a magnetic material.
[09:48.650 --> 09:55.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I have a wire recorder, and I have a bunch of stainless steel reels that my father recorded back in the 40s.
[09:55.190 --> 09:57.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do you have wire recordings?
[09:59.030 --> 09:59.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[09:59.490 --> 10:02.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Some that he recorded when he was in college back in the 40s.
[10:02.870 --> 10:03.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wow.
[10:03.230 --> 10:03.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, yeah.
[10:03.630 --> 10:06.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: You've got to bring one of those by, and we'll see if we can play it on the air.
[10:07.210 --> 10:08.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's big and heavy.
[10:08.190 --> 10:12.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: The hardest part with those stainless steel wire recordings is splicing them.
[10:12.450 --> 10:19.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: You actually had to tie a knot in the stainless steel wire with a microscope, and it would always jam the machine.
[10:19.450 --> 10:21.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sure you've spliced reel-to-reel tapes yourself.
[10:22.050 --> 10:22.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah.
[10:23.150 --> 10:25.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: But try doing that with stainless steel wire.
[10:25.670 --> 10:25.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's fun.
[10:26.350 --> 10:27.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, maybe I will.
[10:28.390 --> 10:30.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: It sounds like a blast.
[10:30.410 --> 10:33.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, you know, we weren't sure if we were on tonight.
[10:33.170 --> 10:35.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: We didn't find out until the last minute that we were on.
[10:36.530 --> 10:39.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then we found out at the last minute that some people thought we weren't on.
[10:39.470 --> 10:40.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: So there are all kinds of confusion.
[10:40.490 --> 10:42.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the crux of it is that we don't have premiums.
[10:43.030 --> 10:45.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have generic premiums from the radio station.
[10:45.770 --> 10:47.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Actually, we might have a couple of...
[10:47.110 --> 10:48.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Rob, we have some leftovers?
[10:48.450 --> 10:48.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: We do.
[10:50.070 --> 10:54.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: We have some of our premiums from fundraisers past, which you can still get hold of.
[10:54.730 --> 10:55.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: I can go through them.
[10:56.570 --> 10:56.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, please.
[10:56.970 --> 10:57.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: There are just a few.
[10:57.750 --> 11:05.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: There are some more remaining, a limited amount, but some more remaining of the luminaries of the Hacker World paintings, which I will be doing.
[11:05.870 --> 11:07.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Why don't you describe what that is?
[11:07.730 --> 11:17.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: That is a painting on a stretched canvas of a certain luminary from the Hacker World, somebody who's had an impact on the Hacker World as it stands today.
[11:17.630 --> 11:26.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Think the sorts of people we've named Hope Rooms after, people like Nikola Tesla, Grace Hopper, Ada Lovelace, all sorts of historical figures like that.
[11:26.470 --> 11:32.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you can get a painting, a painted portrait that I will do of one of these people for a pledge of at least $50.
[11:34.170 --> 11:45.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you can pledge by calling 212-209-2950 or by going to give2wbai.org, which I have some other news about, but I'll leave that until after I've gone through these.
[11:46.530 --> 11:54.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Also, for a pledge of $50, if you're not into the painting, we have Teach Your Kids to Code, which is a parent and teacher's guide to teaching kids basic programming.
[11:54.990 --> 12:10.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: We had the author of this book on, I think it was three weeks ago or two weeks ago, and it's a very interesting book, a very good piece of teaching material if you want to teach your child or learn with your child on how to code.
[12:11.070 --> 12:12.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: Or just random children.
[12:12.530 --> 12:13.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Or just random children.
[12:13.730 --> 12:14.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Nieces, nephews.
[12:14.870 --> 12:15.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[12:15.250 --> 12:16.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you can teach anybody, really, couldn't you?
[12:16.730 --> 12:17.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: It doesn't have to be a child.
[12:17.690 --> 12:17.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, indeed.
[12:18.110 --> 12:19.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I mean, it's called Teach Your Kid to Code.
[12:20.050 --> 12:21.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: And adults can use it too, but they are...
[12:21.730 --> 12:23.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Your kid could be 45 years old, you know?
[12:23.230 --> 12:24.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: It doesn't have to be your kid either.
[12:25.090 --> 12:25.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, exactly.
[12:26.030 --> 12:27.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: A lot of rules here in the title.
[12:27.630 --> 12:28.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: For kids, kids at heart.
[12:28.830 --> 12:30.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: And this is by Bryson Payne, who we spoke with.
[12:31.070 --> 12:34.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: The hacker ethic is definitely to ignore the rules in the title.
[12:34.610 --> 12:36.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, so teach whoever you damn well please to code.
[12:36.630 --> 12:37.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: How about that?
[12:37.410 --> 12:39.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can get that, actually, I misspoke.
[12:39.130 --> 12:42.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's not for a pledge of $50, that's for a pledge of $55, Teach Your Kids to Code.
[12:42.950 --> 12:44.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the $5 does make a difference.
[12:44.430 --> 12:44.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, it does.
[12:45.070 --> 12:53.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: Or, for a pledge of $55, you can get a book called Beautiful Lego, which is a book full of projects that you can do with Lego.
[12:53.470 --> 12:56.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mix hundreds of thousands of Lego bricks with dozens of artists, and what do you get?
[12:56.690 --> 12:57.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Beautiful Lego.
[12:57.570 --> 12:58.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: A compendium of Lego artwork.
[12:58.970 --> 12:59.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Kind of redundant.
[12:59.510 --> 13:02.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you say Lego, I mean, beautiful's already in there.
[13:02.510 --> 13:02.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely.
[13:03.470 --> 13:06.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it is a beautiful book with some great Lego-based projects you can do.
[13:06.830 --> 13:12.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Or you could get both of those books, Teach Your Kids to Code and Beautiful Lego, for a contribution of at least $75.
[13:13.150 --> 13:14.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can get the package of both books.
[13:15.510 --> 13:18.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wait, two $55 pledges for $75?
[13:18.710 --> 13:20.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're just terrible at counting here.
[13:21.350 --> 13:24.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: But we've decided that $55 plus $55 equals $75.
[13:24.890 --> 13:26.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: So you can get both of those books.
[13:27.470 --> 13:36.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: And yeah, give us a call at 212-209-2950 and ask for the Teach Your Kids to Code and Beautiful Lego package, and you'll get both of the books.
[13:36.130 --> 13:40.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: Or you could get Teach Your Kids to Code or Beautiful Lego for an individual pledge of $55.
[13:40.310 --> 13:44.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: Or you could get Illuminaries of the Hacker World painting for a pledge of $50.
[13:45.190 --> 13:52.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: And now in the past, when we've told you about the website where you can go to pledge for these things, the website was give the numeral to wbai.org.
[13:52.550 --> 13:53.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's still the case.
[13:53.430 --> 14:07.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: But we can also tell you now that because of the wonders of homophones and the way they work on the radio, some people were instead going to give to, T-O-W-B-A-I.org and ending up at a completely different site, which was not one of ours.
[14:07.990 --> 14:09.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: But now it's one of ours.
[14:09.150 --> 14:15.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you go to give to, T-O-W-B-A-I.org, you will be directed to the site where you could pledge to WBAI.
[14:16.090 --> 14:18.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that's thanks to you that this happened, right?
[14:18.290 --> 14:21.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: That is thanks to me because I saw that whoever owned it last let it go.
[14:21.910 --> 14:25.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: And so I grabbed it and redirected it and it's all good now.
[14:25.310 --> 14:29.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that means we won't say the numeral anymore when we give that address out.
[14:29.870 --> 14:31.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: It will be implied that either work.
[14:32.390 --> 14:39.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, now my next question is what about give T-W-O-W-B-A-I and also give to as an also WBAI.
[14:39.190 --> 14:41.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have to get them all, you know?
[14:42.010 --> 14:45.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: It sounds like an excellent project for you after the show.
[14:45.610 --> 14:45.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[14:46.310 --> 14:47.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Someone else can get the next one.
[14:47.790 --> 14:48.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: I got this one.
[14:48.410 --> 14:49.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I don't think I was going to spell that.
[14:49.430 --> 14:50.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: But give2wbai.org, great.
[14:51.070 --> 14:52.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: So you can pledge for that.
[14:52.190 --> 14:58.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we should warn you that the premiums that Rob just described, we don't know how many are left.
[14:58.010 --> 14:59.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: We just know that there are some left.
[14:59.330 --> 15:02.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: So as last week proved, we can go through these awfully quickly.
[15:03.490 --> 15:08.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we might be talking about something that is no longer available, because I can't see on the screen exactly how many are going.
[15:09.210 --> 15:13.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I would suggest calling now 212-209-2950.
[15:13.050 --> 15:14.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is the last week of the fundraiser.
[15:14.810 --> 15:18.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: So they won't be available at all after this week, regardless of if there are any left.
[15:19.510 --> 15:28.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: And since we did not have the ability to prepare anything unique and different for this particular program, this is the best way that you can support us now.
[15:28.470 --> 15:30.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212-209-2950.
[15:30.650 --> 15:34.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: And all of those pledge levels would make you eligible to become a member.
[15:34.690 --> 15:36.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: And they're all tax deductible.
[15:36.430 --> 15:38.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: Just thought I'd mention that.
[15:38.310 --> 15:38.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, indeed.
[15:38.990 --> 15:43.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: And if none of that stuff is interesting to you, you can still donate any amount you want.
[15:43.830 --> 15:49.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can look on give2wbai.org and see some WBAI premiums that the station has.
[15:49.510 --> 15:53.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: Just indicate that you're donating toward your favorite show, which we hope is off the hook.
[15:53.830 --> 15:55.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it'll still count.
[15:55.450 --> 15:57.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: So give us a call, 212-209-2950.
[15:58.250 --> 16:03.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: Or go to give2wbai.org and join what's going on here.
[16:03.370 --> 16:03.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: Support the station.
[16:04.150 --> 16:06.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: Keep the show, the station, on the air.
[16:06.750 --> 16:07.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anything from you, Bernie?
[16:08.990 --> 16:09.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anything from me?
[16:10.010 --> 16:10.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, any comments?
[16:11.070 --> 16:13.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because whenever I bring you up, you hear what happens to my voice.
[16:14.150 --> 16:16.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's why you have to be kept down so my voice can sound better.
[16:17.050 --> 16:18.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I have a comment.
[16:18.070 --> 16:22.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I would like to ask if any of you there can try to...
[16:22.910 --> 16:25.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: can find out if you can call London from the studio.
[16:25.090 --> 16:28.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because we'd like to bring in Alex, but that's the only way we can bring in Alex.
[16:31.630 --> 16:35.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we don't know if we can look into it, but we will.
[16:36.130 --> 16:37.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, can you ask somebody if you can look into it?
[16:37.650 --> 16:38.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wait, what are you asking us?
[16:39.310 --> 16:41.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can you call London from the studio?
[16:41.570 --> 16:44.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're asking us in the middle of a show if we can call London in the studio.
[16:45.130 --> 16:45.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[16:45.530 --> 16:48.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you want Alex on the show, you're going to have to call, find Alex.
[16:48.470 --> 16:53.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'd like the Dalai Lama on the show, but I don't know if we can make this work while we're doing a show.
[16:53.870 --> 16:57.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: I thought you guys were working that out amongst yourselves as far as how to get them on.
[16:57.330 --> 17:00.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you're working on it out, something is not working, so I'm asking if one of you...
[17:00.410 --> 17:05.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, well, we're probably the worst people to ask because we're actually involved in doing a radio show right now.
[17:05.490 --> 17:12.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I'm sure somebody out there may be hearing us pleading to them in the studio.
[17:12.890 --> 17:14.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe they can figure out how to do that.
[17:14.190 --> 17:18.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I honestly think if we don't know how to call London at this point, we're not going to be calling London.
[17:20.090 --> 17:22.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that's our colleague Alex, who is in London.
[17:22.990 --> 17:24.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe you could call us.
[17:24.530 --> 17:25.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is that possible?
[17:25.350 --> 17:26.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't think so.
[17:26.350 --> 17:28.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: If I had asked, if I could call you, we could make this work.
[17:28.610 --> 17:30.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I've been told that that's impossible.
[17:31.090 --> 17:31.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[17:31.550 --> 17:32.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: He can't call us.
[17:33.250 --> 17:34.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: He cannot call us.
[17:34.890 --> 17:35.610]  What's our phone number?
[17:35.730 --> 17:36.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't even know.
[17:36.470 --> 17:37.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: What's our phone number?
[17:37.190 --> 17:38.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: We don't know our own phone number?
[17:38.270 --> 17:39.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Do you know our own phone number?
[17:39.390 --> 17:42.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I can hang up and dial 958 and find out that.
[17:42.370 --> 17:43.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, yes, folks, that's another tip for you right there.
[17:44.010 --> 17:46.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Dial 958 in the New York area and you'll find out your phone number.
[17:46.970 --> 17:50.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: I can do that and find out, but I have to disconnect Bernie to do it.
[17:50.010 --> 17:52.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: I can't believe no one has figured out what the phone number is by now.
[17:52.930 --> 17:55.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Perhaps you can text me the number that Reggie gives you.
[17:56.270 --> 17:57.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, Reggie's not in here.
[17:57.570 --> 18:01.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, you know, these are conversations to have before the program, not during the program.
[18:01.890 --> 18:05.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Alex, if you're out there, you know what, text us on our cell phones.
[18:05.210 --> 18:08.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sure one of us will be distracted enough to try and figure out a way to bring you on.
[18:08.330 --> 18:09.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that'll be our mission.
[18:10.030 --> 18:15.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's get Alex on the air by the end of the hour without talking about it for the rest of the hour.
[18:15.710 --> 18:15.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[18:16.250 --> 18:16.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Freedom Act.
[18:16.970 --> 18:18.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: The Freedom Act has, you know, this is what we should be talking about.
[18:18.670 --> 18:19.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: The Freedom Act passed.
[18:20.230 --> 18:21.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: What do you guys think about this?
[18:22.050 --> 18:23.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a very small step.
[18:24.530 --> 18:26.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm bordering on negligible, but the fact that...
[18:26.730 --> 18:29.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Aren't you glad they came up with another acronym that spells out ridiculous things?
[18:29.750 --> 18:33.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: I was just going to skip right over the acronym because it's as stupid as all the acronyms.
[18:33.270 --> 18:40.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: But the fact that even a very small step has happened means that it is the largest step in decades because it is the only step in decades.
[18:40.950 --> 18:45.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it makes me just ever so slightly optimistic for more steps to come.
[18:45.730 --> 18:46.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I suppose so.
[18:47.590 --> 18:48.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is why I want to talk to Max.
[18:48.670 --> 18:50.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Who might be able to help us with our problem.
[18:51.830 --> 18:55.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe talk to him outside the studio so we don't hear all the technical details.
[18:56.290 --> 18:56.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[18:56.650 --> 19:00.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, Kyle, we were watching C-SPAN 2 on Sunday.
[19:00.290 --> 19:01.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we were seeing all kinds of...
[19:01.570 --> 19:01.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: We did, yeah.
[19:01.830 --> 19:03.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: A lot of people were watching C-SPAN 2.
[19:03.610 --> 19:08.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Watching the PATRIOT Act be criticized by at least one senator.
[19:08.570 --> 19:17.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: What amazed me was how so many others were very afraid of saying anything that could be used against him at some point.
[19:18.170 --> 19:21.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: And obviously, what Rand Paul was doing was electioneering.
[19:21.730 --> 19:23.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is great for his campaign.
[19:23.050 --> 19:23.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.
[19:23.630 --> 19:29.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: A lot of eyeballs, definitely some airtime for free as politicians.
[19:29.970 --> 19:38.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: And everybody knows in the electorate, too, that that's their aim is to get on TV and get people talking about them and what their position is.
[19:39.170 --> 19:39.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[19:39.830 --> 19:51.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: And so we wind up with something that, you know, tell me, I'm being paranoid here, but I don't think we really got all that much out of this.
[19:51.330 --> 20:01.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think basically we've switched who is gathering the metadata and added a small step, which I don't think is really a step at all, because I think they're all in bed together anyway.
[20:01.670 --> 20:09.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think probably the people that that really want surveillance to remain are just as happy this way as any other way.
[20:09.970 --> 20:11.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was all just a big circus show.
[20:12.070 --> 20:12.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Am I being paranoid?
[20:13.250 --> 20:14.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, Obama chief among them.
[20:15.210 --> 20:15.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[20:15.650 --> 20:17.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: He says he's excited for this act.
[20:17.870 --> 20:21.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: So it's a pretty good sign that the amount of surveillance is not going to go down a whole lot.
[20:22.170 --> 20:22.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[20:22.510 --> 20:22.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[20:22.750 --> 20:24.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: But Republicans are angry, but then they're always angry.
[20:25.070 --> 20:28.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I don't know if that's a good measurement as to whether or not this is a good thing.
[20:28.430 --> 20:29.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[20:29.270 --> 20:34.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the NSA itself is not too upset about this, which should give you a sign as to how much it'll do.
[20:35.050 --> 20:43.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: But there are Republicans in the Congress who want to give the surveillance state more than even the surveillance state itself demands, and they're upset.
[20:43.530 --> 20:43.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, okay.
[20:44.550 --> 20:47.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe somebody can explain this who has more knowledge of the phone companies.
[20:48.170 --> 21:03.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: But my understanding is that the Freedom Act basically mandates that the phone companies keep the metadata and that they give it up to the government when they're presented with a warrant, which is a unique and novel idea of getting a warrant to actually get this information.
[21:03.610 --> 21:06.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, the government's learning how the process works.
[21:06.190 --> 21:11.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: But my question is, isn't metadata something that phone companies hold on to by default?
[21:11.870 --> 21:15.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: The metadata is basically what... we're talking about phone calls.
[21:15.850 --> 21:19.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you make a phone call, they keep records of who you call.
[21:19.130 --> 21:21.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: They even keep records of your text messages, from what I understand.
[21:22.170 --> 21:24.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that can be used for different purposes.
[21:24.070 --> 21:25.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: Some of it good, some of it bad.
[21:25.630 --> 21:31.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: But you're using their network, so they basically can keep anything that goes over that network.
[21:31.450 --> 21:32.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is that a correct assessment?
[21:33.630 --> 21:39.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, so this term metadata is a real special term because it's data.
[21:39.970 --> 21:40.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's just a form of data.
[21:41.150 --> 21:44.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: It is not the contents of what you say on the telephone.
[21:44.190 --> 21:46.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: So we're talking on the phone to Bernie, I think.
[21:46.430 --> 21:49.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: And our conversation is not part of that.
[21:49.450 --> 22:07.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: But the fact that we call him at precisely this time every week and all that kind of stuff, if we're using a cell phone, the location of the call, if he's using a cell phone, the location of him, all this stuff is the sort of data that is actually most dangerous because it is the easiest to analyze in bulk.
[22:07.330 --> 22:08.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that is all called metadata.
[22:09.190 --> 22:13.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: And so, therefore, they pretend like it's not an invasion of privacy to collect it.
[22:13.490 --> 22:22.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's all the data surrounding a phone call, which is when the phone call takes place, how long the phone call lasts, who's calling who, who calls who with what frequency.
[22:22.450 --> 22:29.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, yeah, it's all the pieces of information attached to a phone call except the content of the conversation that's happening.
[22:30.130 --> 22:33.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: And metadata, as we've talked about in the past, is very powerful data.
[22:34.050 --> 22:45.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: You load it up into a database and you can quickly cross-reference who's calling who, who's associated with who, who's a friend of a friend of who, who's spending significant amounts of time on the phone with who.
[22:45.150 --> 22:46.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the phone company has that information already.
[22:47.090 --> 22:48.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: They need that information to bill you.
[22:48.110 --> 22:53.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe not the, where you're standing, what Seltow are using, but for technical purposes, they need that information.
[22:53.950 --> 22:57.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: The, the, the issue is now sharing that information with authorities.
[22:57.750 --> 23:02.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, they've, they've always, they've always kept hold of that information just so they could write up the phone bills, which is reasonable.
[23:02.530 --> 23:14.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: But on the other half of it, they're, they're basically opening up access to the, to this data, to the powers that be without, without any sort of oversight or, or due diligence.
[23:15.310 --> 23:25.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: I, I'm curious, this strikes me just, uh, the way it is presented, uh, the, in the, the Freedom Act, the distinction is a bit more, um, more aligned with what we've seen.
[23:25.970 --> 23:38.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm, correct me if I'm wrong, like, um, the policies of data retention in Europe, is that, that kind of it where an institution or a corporation is required to keep a certain amount of information about, with their networks for a certain time.
[23:38.710 --> 23:49.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it was, it was, uh, it was a contentious, uh, issue at the time and the way they handle that, uh, is that it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, the information is handled for only a, a certain period of time.
[23:49.530 --> 24:00.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then after that, those kinds of logs and, um, uh, daily, like operational, um, databases are then kind of purged or, or they're not available after a certain date.
[24:00.910 --> 24:11.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and I'm curious if the Freedom Act of companies are going to be used, are going to be, um, since they're responsible, are they going to be, um, practice running their, uh, systems in similar ways?
[24:11.810 --> 24:14.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or what are the similarities and distinctions there?
[24:14.290 --> 24:17.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: If this is indeed falling back into, uh, private companies' hands.
[24:18.110 --> 24:33.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: But it was also, um, part of the rhetoric I noticed when we were watching, uh, the debate, just that, uh, that the definition of metadata and the way it was being described was very, um, that's it, you know, it's just what's on your phone bill.
[24:33.650 --> 24:36.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: I heard that a lot in, in some of the discussions.
[24:36.550 --> 24:54.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think it's really important for everyone to understand it, to communicate to one another that it is not that the, um, it is not that the information, um, itself can be used or is, is used in, in like, uh, in a vacuum or like innocently.
[24:54.670 --> 25:00.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: It is being used with a really vast array of other techniques and information, stuff we know about here in this show.
[25:01.050 --> 25:07.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, uh, I think we've heard about in the Privacy is Dead series, those talks at Hope, and, and so on and so forth.
[25:07.690 --> 25:13.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: So it, it was sort of funny to watch that and, and be like, yeah, yeah, it's, uh, that's part of it.
[25:13.350 --> 25:19.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: But it's not that you're just, uh, having long lists of, of what looks like a phone bill of everybody everywhere.
[25:19.530 --> 25:22.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and that's all you're, you're doing is evaluating that.
[25:22.690 --> 25:32.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's not, it sounds nice and innocent and very limited, or you might want it to sound that way, but it is certainly not how, um, how institutions and governments are, are using it.
[25:33.090 --> 25:34.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, I know you wanted to, uh, to step up here.
[25:37.390 --> 25:37.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie?
[25:39.950 --> 25:40.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[25:40.250 --> 25:40.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: I heard him talking.
[25:42.130 --> 25:42.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[25:42.530 --> 25:43.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie's no longer with us.
[25:43.430 --> 25:45.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, um, um, I'm sorry.
[25:45.990 --> 25:46.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Did you have something, Mike?
[25:47.050 --> 25:49.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, I, I think I was just gonna say, I think we lost Bernie.
[25:49.710 --> 25:49.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[25:50.090 --> 25:51.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Which seems like we did.
[25:51.310 --> 25:51.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[25:51.890 --> 25:55.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, well, I'll keep him, I'll keep him halfway up in case he comes back to the phone.
[25:55.610 --> 26:00.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'll remind our listeners that we're, uh, actually in our third week here, fourth week.
[26:00.170 --> 26:01.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't, I've lost track.
[26:01.410 --> 26:02.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: I've lost track.
[26:02.150 --> 26:03.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's more than one hand.
[26:03.030 --> 26:03.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, Bernie's back.
[26:03.690 --> 26:04.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's Bernie.
[26:04.270 --> 26:07.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, uh, your thoughts on, on the Freedom Act and what we've been talking about.
[26:07.390 --> 26:09.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, I'd like to bring Alex's thoughts on this too.
[26:09.550 --> 26:10.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can you call me back?
[26:10.770 --> 26:11.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh boy, here we go again.
[26:11.830 --> 26:15.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then we can have, then, then I can call Alex and we can patch us through.
[26:15.530 --> 26:17.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's just how the telecom system works here that we're dealing with.
[26:18.070 --> 26:18.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, okay.
[26:18.830 --> 26:19.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: You want us to call you back?
[26:20.650 --> 26:20.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[26:21.110 --> 26:23.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can you call, can you call me back in five minutes?
[26:24.050 --> 26:26.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll see if I'm busy at the time and I'll try to do that.
[26:26.630 --> 26:29.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Did you want to say anything about the Freedom Act since we're, since we're on the radio?
[26:29.630 --> 26:32.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I don't think it provides us with any more freedom than we had.
[26:33.110 --> 26:38.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think it provides us with exactly the amount of, uh, telephone privacy freedom as we had before, which is effectively zero.
[26:39.510 --> 26:45.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is just a shell game and, um, it makes it look like where we have more security and safety.
[26:45.490 --> 26:46.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's, it's no difference.
[26:46.650 --> 26:51.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: If the NSA has access to the phone company's records, it's no difference than having access to the data anyway.
[26:52.790 --> 26:53.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[26:53.350 --> 26:58.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, uh, we're going to call you back in five minutes and, um, hopefully you'll have a connection to London somehow.
[26:59.570 --> 27:02.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, um, we'll talk about some other stories in the, in the interim.
[27:02.790 --> 27:06.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that is, uh, a way it's, uh, been, been discussed.
[27:06.390 --> 27:12.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's come up, uh, quite a bit that this is operationally not going to be a lot different.
[27:12.650 --> 27:26.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, you know, the same kinds of, uh, uh, um, accusations, uh, uh, um, situations where, where there aren't, there isn't probable cause abuses, you know, these kinds of things will crop up, they'll continue.
[27:26.570 --> 27:46.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: And so it is important now, uh, more than ever for us to go through, uh, what is now, uh, being, being, uh, run out as this, this USA Freedom Act, the, the horrible acronym that we described, uh, the, uh, uh, uh, Dragnet, uh, eavesdropping whatever act that actually has to be really seriously looked at.
[27:46.310 --> 27:59.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, and I think the vigilance from a perspective of people who use the Internet and, and, uh, telephones and, and are interested in their privacy as a, as their right to privacy.
[28:00.490 --> 28:14.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, it, it, it's on us, I think more than ever is what I'm saying to, to really, uh, double down on the efforts to, to find, uh, better ways of, of handling this stuff, uh, in a quote, dangerous world.
[28:14.410 --> 28:20.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I, I guess, um, the, what I'd like to conclude with, should we be happy by this or should we just be kind of glum?
[28:20.490 --> 28:23.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think it is a small bit of good news.
[28:23.450 --> 28:39.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the thing that we will see with, that we have to remain vigilant for in the future is, is this the beginning of the pendulum swinging back towards, you know, uh, reducing the size of the security apparatus or is this just one tiny little setback for them and they're just going to keep growing and growing and growing as more or less as planned.
[28:40.150 --> 28:44.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, and that's really up to us, uh, if we keep attention on this sort of issue.
[28:44.430 --> 28:44.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[28:44.850 --> 28:45.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it is up to us.
[28:45.710 --> 28:46.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're right about that.
[28:46.430 --> 28:54.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, and it definitely will keep growing and these, they're not just going to give up, you know, they could get a resounding, um, um, uh, condemnation.
[28:54.450 --> 28:56.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: They could have everybody in the NSA sent to prison.
[28:57.090 --> 28:58.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're still going to keep trying to do this.
[28:58.530 --> 29:01.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't see a big abandonment of, uh, encryption overnight.
[29:01.870 --> 29:03.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, um, no.
[29:03.310 --> 29:16.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, and, and, and, and the, the few comments by members of Congress other than, uh, Rand Paul was so timid, you know, uh, there was one, one Senator, um, a Democrat that I couldn't, I forget who he might've been from New Mexico or somewhere out there.
[29:16.850 --> 29:30.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, and he basically just said, yeah, um, uh, Edward Snowden stole all these documents, basically condemning Edward Snowden, but agreeing with everything that he, uh, was concerned with without giving him a bit of credit saying that, yeah, we would have done this ourselves.
[29:30.430 --> 29:35.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, had we not been sidetracked by the truth coming out and all that, and who was going to believe that?
[29:35.970 --> 29:44.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is anyone actually going to believe that the Senate or, or the House of Representatives was going to do something about mass surveillance, was going to uncover it first of all, and then do something about it?
[29:45.050 --> 29:46.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: I really don't think so.
[29:46.490 --> 29:50.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: I just like that they were actually acknowledging that this is an issue that exists.
[29:50.610 --> 29:59.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the, the conversation was happening at all in the first place, which I think is an improvement from how things have been for a very long time, possibly at any point over the last 14 years.
[29:59.270 --> 30:03.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that conversation was happening because of Edward Snowden, by the way, our keynote speaker at Hope.
[30:04.170 --> 30:09.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, and he's, he's happy about obviously the way the conversation is now going.
[30:09.870 --> 30:14.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, there was a story that came out this week saying that, um, becoming an international fugitive was worth it.
[30:15.150 --> 30:19.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: He said, uh, that's, that's going to headline anyway, who knows how true that actually is, but I can see that point.
[30:19.910 --> 30:27.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: I can see the point of view where you sacrifice your life, basically, you sacrifice everything you have in this country and you have to live as a fugitive.
[30:27.450 --> 30:28.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, was it worth it?
[30:28.710 --> 30:42.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: And for where we are now, for the conversations we're having for the awareness amongst the commenters like us, I would say, yeah, because you have people sacrificing their lives every day for lesser causes willingly and being honored as heroes.
[30:42.910 --> 30:44.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I think it's about time we did the same for him.
[30:44.890 --> 30:47.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he's, he's not dead yet.
[30:47.110 --> 30:47.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: No.
[30:47.350 --> 30:48.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: And he's not dead yet too.
[30:48.310 --> 30:49.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's other plus.
[30:49.310 --> 30:54.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Russia is not my first choice of countries to live in, but it's a lot better than, you know, a jail cell in the U S.
[30:54.530 --> 30:56.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Have you, have you lived in Russia?
[30:56.250 --> 30:56.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: No.
[30:56.510 --> 30:57.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Have you lived in a jail cell?
[30:57.570 --> 30:57.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: No.
[30:57.830 --> 30:58.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[30:58.070 --> 31:01.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you should try a little bit of both and I'll bet you'll like Russia a whole lot more.
[31:01.170 --> 31:02.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's precisely my point.
[31:02.590 --> 31:02.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[31:02.850 --> 31:04.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I'm just underlining that point.
[31:04.290 --> 31:06.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, and it's also a lot bigger than a jail cell.
[31:06.470 --> 31:07.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: That, that is very true.
[31:07.990 --> 31:08.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[31:08.810 --> 31:09.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, okay.
[31:09.830 --> 31:18.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, um, that's pretty much it as far as, uh, as far as this kind of thing goes, uh, a quick statement from the EFF, our friends over there.
[31:19.010 --> 31:22.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you basically should trust what they say, their interpretation on this.
[31:22.770 --> 31:26.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're the ones that have been fighting for many years, uh, to preserve our freedoms.
[31:26.610 --> 31:40.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, the Senate passed the USA Freedom Act 67 to 32, marking the first time in over 30 years that both houses of Congress have approved a bill placing real restrictions and oversight on the NSA surveillance powers.
[31:40.270 --> 31:45.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: The weakening amendments to the legislation proposed by NSA defenders, Senate majority Mitch McConnell were defeated.
[31:46.010 --> 31:50.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we have every reason to believe that president Obama will sign USA Freedom into law.
[31:50.630 --> 31:53.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Technology users everywhere should celebrate there.
[31:53.130 --> 31:53.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[31:53.370 --> 31:54.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: We should celebrate.
[31:54.310 --> 32:07.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now we know, uh, knowing that the NSA will be a little more hampered in its surveillance overreach and both the NSA and the FISA court will be more transparent and accountable than it was before the USA Freedom Act.
[32:07.330 --> 32:13.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, it's no secret that we wanted more in the wake of the damning evidence of surveillance abuses disclosed by Edward Snowden.
[32:13.350 --> 32:20.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: Congress had an opportunity to champion comprehensive surveillance reform and undertake a thorough investigation like it did with the church committee.
[32:20.910 --> 32:26.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, Congress could have tried to completely end mass surveillance and taken numerous other steps to reign in the NSA and FBI.
[32:27.050 --> 32:30.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, but of course we know that will never happen.
[32:30.290 --> 32:35.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: So yeah, I, you know, I feel this way we should celebrate, but know that there's a lot of work ahead of us.
[32:36.450 --> 32:36.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[32:37.030 --> 32:37.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's super hard.
[32:37.890 --> 32:39.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: All that, all that extra stuff.
[32:40.130 --> 32:40.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[32:40.650 --> 32:42.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: But Hey, we have freedom, right?
[32:43.670 --> 32:44.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, that's what I hear.
[32:44.850 --> 32:45.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[32:45.150 --> 32:48.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now I'm going to, um, I'm going to try and stumble through this phone call to Bernie.
[32:49.110 --> 32:53.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, if you guys can maybe, you know, I have nothing else to do, but make a phone call right now.
[32:53.350 --> 32:53.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[32:53.810 --> 33:02.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, while you're doing that, I'll remind our listeners that, uh, we are in, uh, we are in the process of wrapping up this fundraiser and, uh, yet we still need to raise funds.
[33:02.250 --> 33:16.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: So if you call 212-209-2950, or if you go to give2wbai.org, you can, uh, get hold of some premiums that we've, uh, got, that we've, uh, got leftover from past weeks, uh, for a pledge of at least $50, you can get the luminaries of the hacker world painting,
[33:16.630 --> 33:17.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: which I will do.
[33:17.470 --> 33:20.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's, uh, actual physical painting, not a copy, not a print or anything like that.
[33:20.830 --> 33:24.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: You will be getting an actual original painting of a figure from hacker history.
[33:25.030 --> 33:26.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, and that's for a pledge of at least $50.
[33:27.210 --> 33:37.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: For a pledge of $55, you can get the, uh, teach your kids to code book, or you could get the beautiful Lego book, either of those books for a pledge of $55, or both of those books for a pledge of at least $75.
[33:37.950 --> 33:40.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, or you can pledge any amount you wish.
[33:40.550 --> 33:47.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, there are some other premiums available that WBAI has just, uh, specify that you're pledging toward, uh, your favorite show, which we hope is off the hook.
[33:48.110 --> 33:50.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, you'll be part of what keeps the station going.
[33:50.530 --> 33:54.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: A pledge of at least $25 gets you a membership in WBAI.
[33:54.130 --> 33:58.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: You get a say in what goes, uh, in what goes on and, uh, how things go forward from here.
[33:58.670 --> 34:02.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, and, uh, all sorts of other perks and, uh, things that there are to membership.
[34:02.390 --> 34:08.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can get more information on that by calling 212-209-2950 or going to give2wbai.org.
[34:09.150 --> 34:10.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: But you know what the best thing is?
[34:10.370 --> 34:15.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: The best thing is that you keep 99.5 FM commercial free as it has been since 1960.
[34:16.010 --> 34:18.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, we played a tape only a few minutes ago from 1972.
[34:19.830 --> 34:23.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, um, you know, the station has been, and this is going to sound weird.
[34:23.410 --> 34:27.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's been the most consistent voice on the radio dial in New York city.
[34:27.750 --> 34:33.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now you might think we're all crackpaws and out of our minds, uh, doing all kinds of bizarre things on the radio.
[34:33.790 --> 34:34.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: But guess what?
[34:34.810 --> 34:36.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: That is the kind of radio that survives.
[34:37.050 --> 34:46.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Everything else is subject to the whims of the corporate executives and the marketplace and record sales and, uh, stock markets and everything could imagine that has nothing to do with radio.
[34:47.250 --> 34:56.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, every other station pretty much, if you go down the frequency has radically changed, uh, gone to different different owners, gone to different frequencies, sometimes change their format.
[34:57.210 --> 35:02.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, and, and mostly without any regard to the actual people who listened to that station.
[35:03.250 --> 35:04.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: WBAI is different.
[35:04.710 --> 35:08.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have basically had our listeners involved from the start.
[35:08.570 --> 35:11.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, we've had a huge variety of programming.
[35:11.510 --> 35:19.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: I, you know, I wish that there were tapes like the kind Kyle and I have access to from all the years that WBAI has been on the air.
[35:19.890 --> 35:27.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Imagine getting a real trio tape from the sixties, those kinds of things we could preserve, we could save so that people, and people do listen to these things online.
[35:27.010 --> 35:30.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you put it online, people will, um, learn from it.
[35:30.390 --> 35:37.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: We put our old shows up and, and people love listening to, we get letters, you know, you said this in February, 1998, and I really disagree.
[35:37.390 --> 35:40.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: I want to have an argument about something that we said that long ago here.
[35:40.510 --> 35:45.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: We just played a show from 43 years ago and, uh, or part of it anyway.
[35:45.650 --> 35:49.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it sounded, um, it sounded like something that was still interesting to this day.
[35:50.030 --> 35:52.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I think WBAI will always be relevant.
[35:52.490 --> 35:55.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: The question is, can we afford to stay here on the air?
[35:55.810 --> 35:56.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's expensive.
[35:56.910 --> 35:57.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's where you come in.
[35:58.210 --> 36:00.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212-209-2950.
[36:00.310 --> 36:03.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Pledge whatever you can afford for whatever premium you wish.
[36:03.090 --> 36:05.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: But remember, the big premium is WBAI itself.
[36:06.090 --> 36:11.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we should stress that it's not a coincidence that the listener funded station is the one that is the most consistent.
[36:12.050 --> 36:15.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's because we are not responsible to the whims of the commercial market.
[36:15.750 --> 36:25.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: If a, uh, a surveillance company, you know, really wanted to give WBAI a lot of money to, to get their pro surveillance message on the air, we would say no.
[36:25.490 --> 36:26.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, we'd say no to anyone.
[36:27.230 --> 36:28.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, no, Mike, we wouldn't say no.
[36:28.490 --> 36:29.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'd shout no.
[36:29.650 --> 36:29.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[36:30.170 --> 36:30.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[36:30.530 --> 36:36.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'd say we, we, I, I don't want to shout into the microphone, but if I was on the other side of the room, I'd say it as loud as I could, because that is the emphasis that we would use.
[36:36.750 --> 36:36.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[36:37.450 --> 36:43.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the reason we're able to do that is because our listeners keep us on the air, keep us in, in a studio.
[36:44.170 --> 36:53.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: And if you want us to continue to be able to do that, please join the people who are already calling 212-209-2950 and add your voice to that.
[36:53.170 --> 36:57.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, and, you know, say, no, we do not want commercial money to corrupt WBAI.
[36:57.990 --> 37:00.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, don't say that when the person answers the phone, because that's kind of rude.
[37:00.550 --> 37:00.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Say hello.
[37:01.130 --> 37:01.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: How are you?
[37:01.610 --> 37:06.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, whatever you have to say, you know, to get the conversation started and then just however much you want to pledge.
[37:07.070 --> 37:09.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then at some point work in that, no, you don't want this kind of radio.
[37:09.750 --> 37:11.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm sure they will understand exactly what you mean.
[37:12.190 --> 37:16.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Again, 212-209-2950 or the website, give2wbai.org.
[37:16.370 --> 37:20.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's much faster when you don't have to say the numeral to give2wbai.org.
[37:20.750 --> 37:20.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wow.
[37:21.490 --> 37:28.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, and pledge for off the hook premiums as they, as they remain, if there are any left.
[37:28.790 --> 37:30.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Next week, we will not be doing fundraising.
[37:30.510 --> 37:31.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're doing a regular show, I hope.
[37:32.250 --> 37:35.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: But 212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[37:35.450 --> 37:36.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, Bernie, you're back.
[37:36.350 --> 37:37.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do you have a connection to London?
[37:38.510 --> 37:41.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, I'm going to put you on hold for one minute and then bring London in.
[37:42.170 --> 37:55.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Another reason people should call and pledge, 212-209-2950 is we might be able to afford to hire someone competent enough to hook up another phone line or the Comrex device so we can have multiple people on the phone.
[37:56.230 --> 37:58.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, you didn't get your Twinkie for lunch today, did you?
[37:58.410 --> 38:01.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just have this feeling that hasn't been a great day.
[38:01.350 --> 38:01.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, you know what?
[38:01.890 --> 38:07.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're going to, we're going to basically come back in one minute and then we'll be hopefully without that connection to London.
[38:07.750 --> 38:08.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, we're on only until eight o'clock.
[38:09.050 --> 38:11.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: So we'll see if that happens.
[38:12.110 --> 38:15.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: I absolutely echo what Bernie's saying there.
[38:15.410 --> 38:19.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think I'll just remind our listeners that this is a really critical time.
[38:19.830 --> 38:30.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, more than ever, your contribution to WBAI really impacts our production value on air and our abilities behind the scenes.
[38:30.690 --> 38:35.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're, we're kind of stretching and unfurling into a really exciting new space.
[38:36.090 --> 38:38.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: But with that comes a lot of construction, a lot of planning.
[38:39.450 --> 38:42.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: And can I just say there are many, many competent people here that can do just that.
[38:43.070 --> 38:43.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: They can do all kinds of things.
[38:44.050 --> 38:44.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: They have done all kinds of things.
[38:45.070 --> 38:47.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's just a question of all the things that need to be done.
[38:47.510 --> 38:53.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: There is a wide variety as anyone out there can probably imagine with running a radio station.
[38:53.290 --> 38:55.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: And most of us aren't paid anything.
[38:55.450 --> 38:55.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: At all.
[38:55.630 --> 38:59.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's just out of, out of either insanity or love that we, uh, we do these things.
[38:59.310 --> 38:59.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: It really is.
[38:59.910 --> 39:00.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a community effort.
[39:01.050 --> 39:08.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: And so one of those things is, uh, getting a working, a phone system with, with the variety of, of lines and capabilities that we're so accustomed to.
[39:09.510 --> 39:10.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Are we accustomed to it?
[39:10.690 --> 39:16.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, yeah, it's always been a struggle, but the important thing is that when you do have those conversations that they mean something.
[39:16.330 --> 39:17.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, let's, uh, a minute has passed.
[39:17.910 --> 39:19.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, do we have that London connection?
[39:21.310 --> 39:22.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't hear anything.
[39:22.570 --> 39:23.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, are you there?
[39:24.290 --> 39:26.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe he's connecting us as we speak.
[39:26.330 --> 39:26.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: He said a minute.
[39:27.290 --> 39:31.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, I'm not questioning competency here, but they did say a minute.
[39:31.330 --> 39:32.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's been like two minutes.
[39:32.730 --> 39:36.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, you know, transatlantic phone calls were made many decades ago.
[39:36.850 --> 39:38.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, all right, well, we'll keep it up like that.
[39:38.930 --> 39:39.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, are you there?
[39:40.810 --> 39:41.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, he's not there.
[39:41.830 --> 39:42.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have to do a show.
[39:42.850 --> 39:43.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have to talk about things.
[39:43.970 --> 39:47.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: So let's, um, let's go into another story and we'll check back in with Bernie a little bit later.
[39:48.310 --> 39:58.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, so, uh, I am interested to hear what Alex has to say and I'm, I'm sure Bernie's got some other, some other thoughts on the, uh, the, uh, freedom act and what's been going on.
[39:58.970 --> 40:02.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but, uh, we're pretty much, uh, at the home stretch of our program now.
[40:02.250 --> 40:05.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, uh, uh, we'll have, we'll have the rest of the year to talk about the freedom act.
[40:06.070 --> 40:07.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, okay.
[40:07.330 --> 40:12.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, this is a story that comes out of Florida, uh, a place called Pasco County.
[40:12.550 --> 40:18.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: A teacher there has been suspended because he tried to stop cell phone use in his class.
[40:18.210 --> 40:19.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that's not really why he was suspended.
[40:19.330 --> 40:21.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's because of how he did that.
[40:21.910 --> 40:26.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, basically, uh, Fivay or Fivay, I don't know how you say that word.
[40:26.410 --> 40:33.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, Fivay high school science teacher, Dean Liptak said he'd had enough of students using cell phones in his class.
[40:34.210 --> 40:36.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, um, he basically, what do you think he did?
[40:36.910 --> 40:43.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: He put a cell phone jammer in his classroom to, uh, to keep kids from using the cell phone in his class.
[40:43.730 --> 40:45.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now he's received a five day suspension without pay.
[40:46.490 --> 40:51.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, he believed it was fine for him to use a jammer because it wasn't being done for malicious purposes.
[40:51.310 --> 40:56.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: He was trying to make sure his students were focused, but using jammers is illegal.
[40:57.570 --> 40:59.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, this story, I'm sorry.
[40:59.750 --> 41:06.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's on ABC and I'm just a grammar, uh, um, uh, person.
[41:06.650 --> 41:08.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sometimes using jammers are illegal.
[41:08.290 --> 41:09.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, that's not, that's not right.
[41:09.610 --> 41:09.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is it Mike?
[41:10.610 --> 41:11.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Using jammers is illegal.
[41:12.010 --> 41:12.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[41:12.490 --> 41:14.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Jammers are illegal, but using jammers is illegal.
[41:15.170 --> 41:19.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not one for, you know, prescriptivist, but I don't think this is right in anyone's dialogue.
[41:19.590 --> 41:20.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: If I said that, I'd feel like an idiot.
[41:20.850 --> 41:22.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I, I, I, that that's why I stumbled.
[41:22.850 --> 41:26.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, using them can bring thousands of dollars in fines from the FCC and even jail time.
[41:26.970 --> 41:28.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: People have been jailed and you know, I have one.
[41:28.950 --> 41:29.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have one of these.
[41:29.950 --> 41:32.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: It doesn't work anymore, but I had one and I used it.
[41:32.810 --> 41:33.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: I used it on trains.
[41:33.550 --> 41:35.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: I used it on buses and it made my life a lot better.
[41:35.670 --> 41:41.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: But people listen to this reaction, uh, that, uh, that we get from people in the community.
[41:41.990 --> 41:45.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, Pasco County school district employee relations director.
[41:45.330 --> 41:47.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is the guy that probably suspended him without pay.
[41:47.310 --> 41:53.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think he understood the impact that this could have had on parents trying to reach students or public safety concerns or law enforcement.
[41:54.050 --> 41:55.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think he had any idea of that.
[41:55.430 --> 41:57.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was a situation with some pretty poor judgment.
[41:57.470 --> 42:04.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, I went to school for many years and I didn't have a cell phone and with people needed to reach me, there were ways of reaching me.
[42:04.190 --> 42:05.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: You didn't have to have a cell phone.
[42:05.550 --> 42:06.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: You'd have to constantly be connected.
[42:07.330 --> 42:08.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: What is so hard to understand about this?
[42:09.050 --> 42:11.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: There are ways of getting ahold of people.
[42:11.450 --> 42:20.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: You don't have to be completely tied to have all the social networking and able to be, uh, uh, to have your coordinates mapped 24 hours a day.
[42:20.630 --> 42:22.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: We need to change that attitude.
[42:22.630 --> 42:24.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think I see head shaking.
[42:24.890 --> 42:25.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Am I wrong?
[42:25.390 --> 42:36.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, what I, what I like is that, uh, we hear just as many stories coming out of schools of, uh, of, uh, schools, not, not wanting, uh, children to have phone and phones in class and making them like, leave them outside.
[42:36.710 --> 42:47.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Like there was a story here in New York city a few months ago about, uh, how schools would make children leave their phones at say a local bodega or other business or a business model actually popped up where vans would, uh, just park somewhere.
[42:48.030 --> 42:54.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: Kids would leave their phones, um, with this van, um, for a small fee and pick it up after school because they weren't allowed to bring them in the building.
[42:54.810 --> 42:59.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: And now we have a story where kids have their phones in the building and they're getting in trouble for blocking them, using them.
[42:59.130 --> 43:08.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: I must be, uh, you know, if door room were around, he'd say I'm like diverging into a different evolutionary, uh, uh, street or something, but why can't you just leave your damn phone at home?
[43:08.930 --> 43:11.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: You do really need to have your phone with you at all times.
[43:11.490 --> 43:13.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, if I forget my phone, it's not the end of the world.
[43:13.510 --> 43:17.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: I can still figure out how to get to the places I'm going to and meet the people I want to meet.
[43:17.290 --> 43:23.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, uh, what this, it just seems like people are obsessed and they are, they're using these things as crutches.
[43:24.250 --> 43:29.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: If phones aren't allowed in schools, that should be, that should be something that is, you know, observed.
[43:29.570 --> 43:31.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: The flappy bird is not going to flap itself.
[43:31.610 --> 43:40.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Ah, I mean, I can imagine being a teacher and just having all these kids on their phones and, or knowing they're on their phones or, or getting answers to test or talking to each other.
[43:40.710 --> 43:45.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: It makes things extremely, um, uh, just not, uh, conducive to learning.
[43:45.950 --> 43:48.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: What if the children brought a landline phone?
[43:48.230 --> 43:48.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Would you support that?
[43:48.930 --> 43:49.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, I wouldn't support that either.
[43:50.210 --> 43:50.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: I wouldn't.
[43:50.570 --> 43:51.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: I guess that's surprises you.
[43:51.590 --> 43:57.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I would not support the landline, but there, there are landlines in the school, hopefully that if there is an emergency of some sort, somebody can make a phone call.
[43:58.190 --> 44:01.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you know, when I was in high school, uh, we had to pass notes back and forth clandestinely.
[44:01.910 --> 44:06.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm afraid that today's generations aren't going to develop those note passing skills like I had to.
[44:06.130 --> 44:06.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Here's a challenge.
[44:07.010 --> 44:07.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[44:07.190 --> 44:10.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: To anyone out there, whatever their age is, go a day without your phone.
[44:10.350 --> 44:14.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just put your phone, turn it off, put it away, see what your life is like.
[44:14.190 --> 44:17.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, yeah, there'll be some inconveniences, but I'll bet, I'll bet you'll survive.
[44:17.930 --> 44:19.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's a little initial separation anxiety.
[44:20.070 --> 44:20.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's okay though.
[44:20.810 --> 44:21.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: You get over it.
[44:21.590 --> 44:26.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: You get a little like a sweat, you know, and that, that anxiety kind of subsides.
[44:26.990 --> 44:27.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[44:27.610 --> 44:27.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[44:27.850 --> 44:28.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Slowly.
[44:28.250 --> 44:29.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: It makes you a stronger person.
[44:29.510 --> 44:30.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: You let go.
[44:30.370 --> 44:31.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's, let's check in and see if Bernie's back yet.
[44:32.170 --> 44:32.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, are you there?
[44:33.570 --> 44:36.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm here and Alex from London is on the line as well.
[44:36.330 --> 44:36.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Alex.
[44:36.830 --> 44:36.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wow.
[44:37.050 --> 44:41.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is, this is the, the phone call we've been waiting for, for, for such a while.
[44:41.250 --> 44:42.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, how, how are you doing out there?
[44:43.610 --> 44:47.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: I hope I should say happy Thursday from London because it is Thursday over here.
[44:47.630 --> 44:51.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm telling you, somebody is going to make a this fiasco tonight, right?
[44:51.870 --> 44:55.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, how many hackers does it take to call London from New York kind of thing?
[44:56.130 --> 44:58.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, uh, things are, things are going very, very well over here.
[44:58.670 --> 45:00.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I appreciate being on this evening with you gentlemen.
[45:01.010 --> 45:02.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's always good to hear everyone's voice.
[45:02.990 --> 45:04.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, can I go back?
[45:04.410 --> 45:09.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can we step back for two seconds so I could maybe make a comment about the intelligence reform?
[45:09.310 --> 45:09.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Would you mind?
[45:10.150 --> 45:15.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, let's, let's step back and, and, and go ahead and comment from, from the, uh, well, you're not British yourself.
[45:15.350 --> 45:17.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: You used to be here in New York and now you're over there.
[45:17.910 --> 45:23.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: So it's not really the British perspective, but you, you're tied into the overseas perspective more, I suppose.
[45:23.990 --> 45:24.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, exactly.
[45:25.230 --> 45:25.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.
[45:25.590 --> 45:38.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: You see, what I find very interesting about this is the metadata that's being collected and the program that has been proposed is very similar, almost exactly similar to what was, uh, what was implemented in the EU for a good period of time.
[45:38.010 --> 45:50.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: In 2006, there was a data retention directive from the European Union that mandated that all telecommunications carriers essentially capture metadata, the metadata about which, uh, Rob was just speaking a few minutes ago.
[45:50.670 --> 45:54.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: All of that had to be held for a period of between six and 24 months.
[45:54.850 --> 46:03.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then law enforcement or intelligence agencies, security forces, anything like that could go to a court and get a court order in the EU to access that data.
[46:03.390 --> 46:07.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: It sounds very, very similar to the program that is proposed in the United States.
[46:07.810 --> 46:08.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Am I right?
[46:08.310 --> 46:08.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[46:08.770 --> 46:10.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, let me just, uh, correct you there, Alex, first.
[46:10.610 --> 46:15.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: I know, you know, being over there in England, us Americans probably sound all the same to you now, but that was Kyle speaking about that, not Rob.
[46:16.590 --> 46:17.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[46:17.650 --> 46:18.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sorry.
[46:18.170 --> 46:19.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let me have, I'm sorry about that.
[46:19.950 --> 46:20.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[46:20.370 --> 46:22.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: But so it was basically the same program.
[46:23.170 --> 46:34.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's rather interesting about this was that last year in April, the court of justice of the European Union actually declared that directive invalid for violating fundamental human rights.
[46:34.470 --> 46:45.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: There was then a European parliament, uh, opinion that the blanket retention of unsuspicious persons as data violates the EU charter of fundamental rights.
[46:45.790 --> 46:48.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: And in that EU charter is a fundamental right to privacy.
[46:49.190 --> 47:05.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: So we're basically, we're, we're implementing what appears to be a program that has already been declared, uh, in violation of fundamental human rights in the EU, you know, and then to go back to another point, um, was made and maybe, maybe I'm getting it right now,
[47:05.250 --> 47:08.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: but maybe Rob was talking about this, about the value of metadata.
[47:08.870 --> 47:18.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you think about metadata, as opposed to content, it's much, much easier to surveil a massive amount of people through metadata, as opposed to listening to everyone's telephone calls.
[47:19.210 --> 47:30.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, there was actually a New York review of books article about this, uh, I think it was last year and, uh, Stuart Baker, I'm not sure if anyone's familiar with him, but Stuart Baker was the NSA general counsel.
[47:30.530 --> 47:45.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I I should say, Stuart and I, uh, worked together in the same law firm and private practice at Steptoe and Johnson in Washington for a number of years, but he's on the record as saying that quote, metadata absolutely tells you everything about someone's life.
[47:46.050 --> 47:49.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you have enough metadata, you don't really need content.
[47:49.830 --> 48:05.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: And when this was quoted in the article, uh, back to, to general Michael Hayden, the former director of the NSA and CIA, um, he called Baker's comment absolutely correct and raised him one more by asserting, we kill people based on metadata.
[48:06.710 --> 48:06.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[48:06.910 --> 48:07.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Quite interesting.
[48:08.290 --> 48:23.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, so I guess Alex, the question is, uh, are we just, you know, like a decade behind the EU and this will get overturned here in a decade, or is this just a temporary setback and, and we're going to be, uh, violating people's, uh, rights for, for decades to come.
[48:23.850 --> 48:27.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, and I guess we, we don't know the answer yet, of course, but that's the question.
[48:27.530 --> 48:28.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think it's a good question.
[48:28.990 --> 48:30.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think it's a good question now.
[48:30.530 --> 48:43.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: And speaking of which, and I think, you know, one of the reasons why I was calling him is because yesterday I actually heard the director general for cybersecurity for GCHQ, uh, his name's Kieran Martin speak at, uh, InfoSec Europe 2015 here in London.
[48:44.090 --> 48:50.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, and one of the things that was, was, you know, quite interesting about his talk, which was otherwise pretty anodyne and, and boring.
[48:50.410 --> 49:05.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, uh, there really wasn't much content to it, but the interesting thing is, you know, he talked about money, power, and propaganda as being the three things that motivate, uh, cybercrime, but he didn't want in his entire speech, I have to say, and I applaud him for this.
[49:05.450 --> 49:09.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: He didn't use the word hackers at all, which is very, very unusual.
[49:09.970 --> 49:11.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: He didn't try to pin anything on hackers.
[49:11.670 --> 49:17.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: The closest he ever came to saying hacker was he, he said the word hacktivist a couple of times in the context of propaganda.
[49:17.330 --> 49:21.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, but I have to say, I was, I was pleasantly surprised that we weren't vilified.
[49:21.450 --> 49:24.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, what was, was the word hacktivist, was that vilified?
[49:26.430 --> 49:31.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, not particularly, uh, you know, no, no more than usual, but no less either.
[49:31.230 --> 49:35.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: I would say, but, um, but it was, it was, it was quite interesting.
[49:36.250 --> 49:45.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, and, uh, other things happening in London today was, uh, was, was, uh, B sides, um, and also relevant to off the hook.
[49:45.590 --> 49:53.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: There was, uh, a talk about this, um, automated dependent surveillance broadcast system on aircraft, you know, which you guys have been talking about for the last couple of weeks.
[49:54.170 --> 50:09.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, there was an individual, Joe Greenwood, an aerospace engineering student and a pilot actually with the Royal Navy who gave a talk about spoofing these broadcast messages and, uh, which would then, you know, pop up on a pilot's radar alert system and require them actually to divert the aircraft.
[50:10.650 --> 50:17.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, quite suddenly, I think within a period of 2.5 seconds, they would have a statutory requirement to divert the aircraft.
[50:17.650 --> 50:26.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, this hasn't been actually tested on the plane, but I think it, it goes to a lot of what, uh, has been talked about and off the hook for the last couple of days.
[50:26.610 --> 50:30.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, so a couple, couple of pretty cool developments coming out of London here.
[50:31.190 --> 50:31.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[50:31.670 --> 50:35.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, as always, good to hear your voice and, um, and, and your perspectives on things.
[50:35.650 --> 50:36.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, did you have anything to add?
[50:38.070 --> 50:45.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, I just think it's really interesting that, uh, that Americans, that this ironic, that this is called the USA Freedom Act.
[50:46.070 --> 50:52.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it now proves that we have less freedom than the Europeans have under protection of law.
[50:52.950 --> 50:58.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: So our law is, uh, provides us with less freedom than a European law.
[50:58.710 --> 51:00.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, uh, just kind of ironic.
[51:00.890 --> 51:02.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that, that all has an inverse relationship.
[51:03.110 --> 51:05.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: We had the PATRIOT Act, which was not about patriotism at all.
[51:05.590 --> 51:07.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: We had the Freedom Act, which is not about freedom at all.
[51:07.610 --> 51:13.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: Like the, the nicer and sparklier and more jingoistic a name of one of these acts is, I think the more we should probably be afraid of it.
[51:13.430 --> 51:18.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, if they come up with, uh, like the, the free bunnies and kittens act, I think it's, it's going to involve just shooting us all in the face or something.
[51:19.310 --> 51:21.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, they can never use the word freedom again.
[51:21.230 --> 51:22.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, they can't use the word Patriot again.
[51:24.330 --> 51:26.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, they'll use it, not just in the name of a bill.
[51:26.970 --> 51:27.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's, that's the thing.
[51:28.650 --> 51:33.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: But that would be a brilliant tactic, come up with a new acronym that Patriot could stand for.
[51:33.710 --> 51:36.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that's what they're, yeah, they're doing that more now than ever before.
[51:36.570 --> 51:37.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, Alex, any final words from you?
[51:39.370 --> 51:40.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I'd, uh, I'd like to be a new acronym.
[51:40.870 --> 51:53.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'd like to say, I think that you were absolutely right to bring up, uh, Snowden before, because I think, uh, I think we, we have to think about Obama and the context of Snowden as well, because if Obama's owning this reform and lauding it as a victory now,
[51:53.670 --> 52:04.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: and his acolytes are claiming that this is going to be a reform that's pivotal to his legacy, then why hasn't, we have to ask, why hasn't the administration reversed its opinion with regard to the prosecution of Snowden?
[52:04.470 --> 52:16.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I think regardless of what you think about him personally, about the wisdom of his disclosures, it's hard to argue against the fact that he started this debate about privacy and surveillance, but for Snowden, there wouldn't be any reform to buttress Obama's legacy.
[52:16.890 --> 52:22.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: If the ends justify the means in this context, I think the administration really needs to rethink its position.
[52:23.430 --> 52:24.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, well said.
[52:24.930 --> 52:27.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm solidly, uh, solidly with you on that, Alex.
[52:27.670 --> 52:34.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: I've been thinking that, uh, quite a bit in the last couple of days as we've been processing some of the, uh, rhetoric and, and action on this.
[52:35.610 --> 52:36.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[52:36.270 --> 52:39.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: And can I give a shout out to the 2600 crew here in London?
[52:39.390 --> 52:42.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: That has been, uh, very, very hospitable to me over the last couple of days.
[52:42.910 --> 52:43.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm, I'm happy to hear that.
[52:44.050 --> 52:47.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: I hear that you made contact with one of our, our friends, Zap, which, uh, is great to hear.
[52:47.850 --> 52:49.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: So please pass our greetings on to him as well.
[52:50.250 --> 52:53.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, there are 2600 meetings coming up this Friday.
[52:53.610 --> 52:59.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, um, I know there's construction over at Trocadero, um, and I'm not sure if that affects the meetings at all.
[53:00.910 --> 53:01.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think so.
[53:01.910 --> 53:05.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think everything is, uh, going on as planned, uh, for this Friday.
[53:06.350 --> 53:07.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, great.
[53:07.350 --> 53:08.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, have a good time in London.
[53:08.590 --> 53:11.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, can you, um, can you drop that package off to Julian that we talked about?
[53:12.170 --> 53:13.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, well, you know what?
[53:13.170 --> 53:14.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'll talk off, off the air.
[53:14.650 --> 53:15.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[53:15.150 --> 53:16.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about that offline.
[53:16.150 --> 53:16.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[53:16.450 --> 53:16.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[53:16.910 --> 53:17.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[53:17.710 --> 53:18.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good hearing from you again.
[53:19.270 --> 53:20.350]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is Julian Assange.
[53:20.530 --> 53:23.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: You're listening to WBAI New York.
[53:23.490 --> 53:25.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: Stay strong and keep listening.
[53:26.310 --> 53:26.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, indeed.
[53:26.890 --> 53:27.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know how that happened.
[53:27.790 --> 53:28.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, okay.
[53:28.190 --> 53:40.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, uh, we are down to our last few minutes, uh, Rob, once again, the premiums that we're offering, uh, for a pledge of at least $50, you can get a painting from, uh, from me to you of a luminary from the hacker world, a figure from hacker history, um,
[53:40.550 --> 53:56.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: acrylic on canvas and actual physical painting for a pledge of at least $50 for a pledge of at least 55, you can get the teacher kids to code book, or you could get the beautiful Lego book full of Lego projects, or for a pledge of at least 75, you can get both the beautiful Lego and the teacher kids to code books.
[53:56.650 --> 54:00.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, you You can also see what other premiums there are available that WBAI has.
[54:01.090 --> 54:04.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: Make sure you specify off the hook as the show you're donating in the name of.
[54:05.010 --> 54:09.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you'll become part of what's going on here and support our show and support our station and keep the lights on.
[54:10.330 --> 54:15.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Again, 212-209-2950 or give2wbai.org.
[54:15.850 --> 54:18.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: And Rob, I believe there are meetings this week?
[54:18.290 --> 54:18.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, indeed.
[54:19.270 --> 54:20.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: Actually, I'm traveling this weekend.
[54:20.590 --> 54:21.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you're going to be at the Washington, D.C. meeting, I'm going to check that out.
[54:23.230 --> 54:24.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I hope to see you there.
[54:24.870 --> 54:26.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, yeah, everywhere else.
[54:26.770 --> 54:28.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: 2600.com/meetings.
[54:28.430 --> 54:29.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: Find one near you.
[54:30.090 --> 54:32.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: oth@2600.com is our email address.
[54:32.490 --> 54:32.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: See you next week.