Off The Hook - 2015-10-14

[00:00.000 --> 00:02.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're in Washington Square Park at 11 a.m.
[00:02.920 --> 00:04.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: You are needed now.
[00:04.400 --> 00:10.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: Go to RiseUpOctober.org or call 929-249-7996.
[00:11.080 --> 00:15.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: Once again now, that's 929-249-7996.
[00:15.700 --> 00:20.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Brothers and sisters of all colors, which side are you on?
[00:32.420 --> 00:33.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[00:33.960 --> 00:37.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: The program is off the hook.
[00:41.920 --> 00:43.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it is off the hook.
[00:43.200 --> 00:43.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the theme.
[00:43.900 --> 00:46.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: You might not hear it, but it's definitely there somewhere.
[00:47.540 --> 00:49.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: As soon as we figure out what button is not pressed.
[01:03.820 --> 01:04.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Understood.
[01:04.520 --> 01:05.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: But didn't it know?
[02:33.330 --> 02:34.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: And very good evening to everybody.
[02:34.470 --> 02:35.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: The program is off the hook.
[02:35.710 --> 02:38.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday night.
[02:38.650 --> 02:40.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: Joined tonight by Mike.
[02:40.630 --> 02:40.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi there.
[02:41.330 --> 02:41.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Rob T.
[02:42.230 --> 02:42.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Firefly.
[02:42.870 --> 02:43.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good evening.
[02:43.810 --> 02:44.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Kyle.
[02:45.970 --> 02:46.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: Where are you?
[02:46.630 --> 02:46.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Where are you?
[02:46.890 --> 02:47.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hold on.
[02:47.310 --> 02:47.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hold on.
[02:47.710 --> 02:48.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, try that one.
[02:48.710 --> 02:49.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: Present.
[02:49.410 --> 02:49.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, good.
[02:49.990 --> 02:51.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: And somewhere, Bernie S.
[02:51.990 --> 02:53.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:53.870 --> 02:55.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, we figured out where everybody is.
[02:56.210 --> 03:02.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we are on for two hours tonight because it's one of those special fundraising shows.
[03:03.010 --> 03:04.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: So get ready for that.
[03:04.590 --> 03:05.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's exciting.
[03:05.250 --> 03:06.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: We haven't done one in a while.
[03:06.290 --> 03:07.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: And hopefully we're still good at it.
[03:07.950 --> 03:08.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: But we'll see.
[03:08.810 --> 03:09.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see.
[03:09.890 --> 03:11.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, it's not really we who are good at it.
[03:11.750 --> 03:12.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's our listeners.
[03:12.390 --> 03:12.390]  Hang on.
[03:12.530 --> 03:13.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you hear that?
[03:13.390 --> 03:14.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: You hear all those sirens?
[03:16.330 --> 03:16.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's amazing.
[03:16.990 --> 03:18.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can hear the whole city in this room.
[03:19.430 --> 03:20.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: You literally can hear everything.
[03:20.850 --> 03:22.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can hear sirens.
[03:22.390 --> 03:22.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can hear trucks.
[03:23.090 --> 03:24.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can hear pedestrians going by.
[03:24.330 --> 03:25.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: We even heard an airplane the other day.
[03:26.370 --> 03:31.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just, you know, we're redefining what radio is all about.
[03:31.250 --> 03:36.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people seem to think that radio has to be done in what's called a soundproof room.
[03:37.410 --> 03:41.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that, to me, always struck me as a bit of a contradiction because we embrace sound.
[03:41.870 --> 03:44.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't want to, you know, protect ourselves from sound.
[03:44.810 --> 03:49.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: So what we basically do is open up the walls and the windows and everything and let all the sound in, right?
[03:50.190 --> 03:50.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[03:50.610 --> 03:54.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, I mean, how else would we be able to participate in the conversations in the hallway?
[03:54.370 --> 03:55.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's what...
[03:55.410 --> 03:55.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: Speak up.
[03:55.630 --> 03:57.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: I can barely hear you over the old noise in the hallway.
[03:58.210 --> 03:58.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
[03:59.050 --> 03:59.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[03:59.570 --> 04:00.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, I agree with her.
[04:00.610 --> 04:02.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, she makes some good points out there.
[04:02.250 --> 04:03.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, yeah.
[04:03.930 --> 04:05.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, no, continue with your point.
[04:05.830 --> 04:06.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: I lost my train of thought.
[04:07.450 --> 04:07.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: It happens.
[04:07.870 --> 04:10.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do we have access to, like, any Twitter accounts?
[04:10.110 --> 04:11.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because I think our listeners should see our...
[04:11.810 --> 04:14.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: We do have some soundproofing in the room right here.
[04:14.410 --> 04:16.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're asking me if we have any access to Twitter accounts.
[04:16.670 --> 04:20.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, you know, like a WBAI Twitter account or something like that.
[04:20.750 --> 04:21.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: We should document it, yeah.
[04:22.330 --> 04:24.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's lovely, the soundproofing that we have.
[04:24.810 --> 04:25.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: It is.
[04:25.410 --> 04:29.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bernie, I don't know if you can hear any of the sound, the wonderful sound that surrounds us all the time.
[04:30.010 --> 04:33.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm enjoying all the ambient sounds of the WBAI studios right now.
[04:33.830 --> 04:44.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I hope that you also enjoy this sound, which is our musical theme, that we intend to play all night long.
[04:45.110 --> 04:49.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe not this loud.
[05:25.290 --> 05:26.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we're off, yes.
[05:27.110 --> 05:32.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: The two-hour fundraiser has begun with the sounds of Kraftwerk in the background, which is only appropriate for a Hacker Show, don't you think?
[05:33.290 --> 05:34.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Very much, very much.
[05:34.850 --> 05:40.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, we'll try to keep it just, you know, in the background, subtly, like that.
[05:40.770 --> 05:41.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[05:43.770 --> 05:45.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, we haven't been on in a couple of weeks.
[05:45.810 --> 05:46.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: We weren't on last week.
[05:46.630 --> 05:48.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: We won't be on next week.
[05:48.990 --> 05:52.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: This week, we're preempting the Personal Computer Show at 8 o'clock.
[05:52.290 --> 05:56.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: And next week, we will be preempted again, but we'll be back in another two weeks.
[05:57.150 --> 05:58.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're on next week, if you're a fan of them.
[05:59.030 --> 05:59.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I'm told.
[05:59.850 --> 06:00.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I'm told.
[06:00.430 --> 06:05.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'm not the person to ask questions about because I don't always get all the right information.
[06:07.690 --> 06:11.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: But there are lots of things that we do get the right information about, and that's...
[06:11.470 --> 06:15.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to be focusing some time on that tonight as well as a bunch of other things.
[06:15.670 --> 06:17.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, maybe we'll even try to take phone calls.
[06:17.870 --> 06:25.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: What I do want to make sure people know, though, is that we are in fundraising mode for the autumn.
[06:25.070 --> 06:29.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the phone number is 212-209-2950.
[06:29.130 --> 06:30.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's the number to pledge.
[06:31.210 --> 06:38.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: You want to just get started right away with what it is that we're offering tonight because it's pretty cool.
[06:38.250 --> 06:53.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I know, Bernie, you played a huge part in getting this to us from our friend Mitch Altman, who is currently, I believe, currently speeding his way from Shanghai to Beijing on a fast train and cannot be with us tonight.
[06:54.350 --> 06:57.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: I know you can talk on phones on trains, but it all sounds to be 7 in the morning.
[06:58.250 --> 07:01.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's a lot harder to do than just talking on the phone.
[07:03.110 --> 07:06.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, Bernie, tell us something about what we are offering tonight.
[07:06.710 --> 07:13.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, we've had Mitch on the show many times over the past few years, and he's one of our favorite people and I think one of our more popular guests.
[07:15.090 --> 07:20.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: And a key part of the HOPE Conference is just putting on all kinds of great talks and workshops and things.
[07:20.690 --> 07:27.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: But I think we first became aware of Mitch, or actually became aware of one of his inventions.
[07:27.770 --> 07:40.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then I tracked him down to, like, I want to meet this guy or talk to this guy who invented this thing called the TV-B-Gone, which turns off TVs from, like, over 100 feet away.
[07:41.530 --> 07:44.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it just fits on your keychain, and you carry it around.
[07:44.630 --> 07:57.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you're at a public place, maybe a restaurant or a bar, or maybe somebody's home, and you're trying to have a conversation, you just press a button on this keychain thing, and the TV is magically turned off.
[07:58.290 --> 07:59.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's just magical.
[08:00.170 --> 08:01.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I love it.
[08:01.330 --> 08:06.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think everybody in the studio there, including myself, we've all had a lot of fun with these things, haven't you?
[08:06.870 --> 08:07.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, absolutely.
[08:08.550 --> 08:14.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: It basically has brought many hours of joy to adults and children everywhere around the world.
[08:14.490 --> 08:22.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Just imagine you're in a crowded location, and you're able to just turn a television off without even seeming like you're doing something of that nature.
[08:23.010 --> 08:26.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: It causes all kinds of consternation and confusion and various things like that.
[08:26.770 --> 08:33.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's also for the betterment of mankind, because people wind up talking to each other again, and it's just really, really cool.
[08:33.970 --> 08:36.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, this is a story that so many of us can tell.
[08:37.030 --> 08:41.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: It happens all the time, but I was just last night in a bar for a friend's birthday party.
[08:43.050 --> 08:44.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was a Tuesday night.
[08:44.370 --> 08:48.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: There were not very many other people in the bar, other than my friend and, you know, the people attending the party.
[08:50.310 --> 08:56.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: None of us are really big sports fans, but there were five televisions strewn about the bar, playing two different sports games.
[08:56.810 --> 08:57.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're watching the Mets, huh?
[08:58.150 --> 08:59.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Was that one of the teams?
[09:00.210 --> 09:02.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's a good thing if you turn that off.
[09:02.210 --> 09:02.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Seriously.
[09:02.490 --> 09:10.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I don't know what these games were, but I really, really wished I had brought my TV-B-Gone with me, because there was just no way to make this go away.
[09:10.850 --> 09:12.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, I don't watch a lot of commercial television.
[09:13.010 --> 09:16.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Every five minutes, there was an ad for, you know, impotence drugs.
[09:16.590 --> 09:22.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: I do not understand commercial television, and I really wish it had not been present in my environment.
[09:22.090 --> 09:25.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: If I had had a TV-B-Gone with me, I would have been able to solve that problem.
[09:25.930 --> 09:33.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: As soon as he hit that double that went along the left field line, I couldn't believe that, you know, on top of that, he bobbles the ball, you know?
[09:33.770 --> 09:35.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Of course you need a TV-B-Gone for something like that.
[09:36.210 --> 09:38.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's the point where they just totally lost the game.
[09:39.010 --> 09:39.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right?
[09:39.450 --> 09:39.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[09:39.730 --> 09:44.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, if you're a Mets fan, you might need to have a TV-B-Gone just, you know, for general principle.
[09:45.730 --> 09:47.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, anyway, what are we offering tonight?
[09:47.690 --> 09:48.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're offering a...
[09:48.850 --> 09:49.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: A TV-B-Gone.
[09:49.590 --> 09:51.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: A TV-B-Gone as one of our premiums.
[09:51.270 --> 09:54.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, $50 pledge, 212-209-2950.
[09:54.670 --> 09:58.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: You say to the person, hello, I would like to support WBAI and get a TV-B-Gone.
[09:58.810 --> 09:59.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, be careful.
[09:59.230 --> 10:02.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you don't say that exact sentence, they hang up on you.
[10:02.150 --> 10:03.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think that's how it works.
[10:03.230 --> 10:03.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't work that way?
[10:03.890 --> 10:04.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good.
[10:04.110 --> 10:04.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we've improved.
[10:04.730 --> 10:06.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: But you have to say, you might have to say TV-B-Gone.
[10:07.250 --> 10:08.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah, definitely say TV-B-Gone.
[10:08.930 --> 10:09.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[10:09.570 --> 10:10.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Why wouldn't you want to say TV-B-Gone?
[10:10.610 --> 10:15.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you just call up and say, the first word out of your mouth is TV-B-Gone, that would be a little rude.
[10:16.230 --> 10:17.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Why is our theme playing again?
[10:18.010 --> 10:19.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you hit the button there.
[10:19.470 --> 10:20.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there's so many...
[10:20.010 --> 10:22.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, Rob's trying to fix a CD player and he wound up playing the other one.
[10:22.730 --> 10:23.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[10:23.250 --> 10:23.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: So many buttons.
[10:24.030 --> 10:28.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: But say, you know, when prompted, say TV-B-Gone and you'll get a TV-B-Gone.
[10:29.650 --> 10:31.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah, it won't just suddenly materialize in your...
[10:31.970 --> 10:32.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: $50 pledge.
[10:32.510 --> 10:34.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: I want to make sure people know that we're not that good.
[10:34.330 --> 10:35.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not going to just materialize in your house.
[10:35.910 --> 10:36.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: You'll get it.
[10:36.490 --> 10:37.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: It will come in the mail.
[10:37.590 --> 10:37.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[10:38.930 --> 10:44.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's probably true that this thing is so useful, you will wish you had it sooner, but we will send it to you as soon as we can.
[10:45.750 --> 10:50.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you'll be able to control your environment by eliminating unwanted televisions.
[10:50.370 --> 10:50.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what?
[10:50.810 --> 10:51.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: $50 pledge?
[10:51.610 --> 10:52.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: $50 pledge.
[10:52.390 --> 10:52.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: $20.
[10:52.630 --> 10:52.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: $20.
[10:52.750 --> 10:52.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: $20.
[10:53.030 --> 10:53.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: $20.
[10:53.070 --> 10:53.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: $20.
[10:53.310 --> 10:53.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: $20.
[10:53.470 --> 10:53.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: $20.
[10:57.950 --> 10:58.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: $20.
[11:09.630 --> 11:19.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: And unless somebody has been smart enough to cover it with electrical tape or, you know, the infrared sensor, they can't stop you from sending that signal.
[11:19.750 --> 11:21.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: That signal will turn the TV off.
[11:21.650 --> 11:24.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: It will also, by the way, turn a TV on if the TV is already off.
[11:24.970 --> 11:26.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: So that can also spook people out.
[11:26.970 --> 11:41.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: I remember, Bernie, I think you were with us one time in Dayton, Ohio, during one of the hamventions where we just were, I think we had had a few drinks and we were just wandering around suburban streets, holding TV becans in front of houses, realizing that it's,
[11:41.910 --> 11:42.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: you know, it's midnight.
[11:42.850 --> 11:49.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Tonight, people's television sets are turning on and they're going to come downstairs in the morning and see the TV on and wonder just what it was that happened.
[11:50.330 --> 11:53.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: That was in the, as I recall, that was in the Oregon district, that's outside of Dayton.
[11:54.030 --> 11:55.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: And there was a, there was a used...
[11:55.770 --> 11:57.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: You want to give a date, too, so they can nail us for this?
[11:57.890 --> 11:58.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[11:58.470 --> 12:00.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, this was, I think the statute of limitations is over.
[12:00.970 --> 12:01.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was a few years ago.
[12:01.670 --> 12:05.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: But there was a store, like a used, like a thrift store, and there were these TVs in the window.
[12:06.110 --> 12:07.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: And they were all turned off.
[12:07.250 --> 12:08.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: So we turned them on.
[12:08.090 --> 12:13.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: So when the folks came in the morning, they would wonder, who broke in and turned on all the the TV sets?
[12:14.550 --> 12:18.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, I got to say, though, these TV-B-Gones are the last available.
[12:19.770 --> 12:21.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mitch is not making any more of these.
[12:21.230 --> 12:21.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: What do you mean by that?
[12:21.790 --> 12:22.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: The last available?
[12:22.690 --> 12:23.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, this is the...
[12:23.850 --> 12:24.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're not...
[12:24.210 --> 12:24.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is...
[12:24.590 --> 12:32.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: This may be one of your last opportunities to get a TV-B-Gone, because Mitch has conveyed to us that he is ceasing production of...
[12:32.430 --> 12:33.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: He's going to move on to another project.
[12:33.950 --> 12:35.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: He's been making these for 11 years.
[12:35.750 --> 12:42.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: More than half a million people have acquired TV-B-Gones and shut off.
[12:42.830 --> 12:44.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: Probably millions of TV sets.
[12:44.930 --> 12:46.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: And he feels he's accomplished his mission.
[12:46.930 --> 12:48.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: He's going to move on to a new project.
[12:48.810 --> 12:50.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: He's going to start making them.
[12:50.370 --> 12:51.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: He's not making any more.
[12:51.930 --> 12:53.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is the last of the TV-B-Gones.
[12:53.850 --> 13:02.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: So if you want a TV-B-Gone and you want to support WBAI, call 212-209-2950, because this is a unique opportunity.
[13:02.530 --> 13:04.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if I...
[13:04.030 --> 13:11.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I have ever lived in a world where I've known of Mitch Altman, a Mitch Altman that did not make TV-B-Gones.
[13:11.390 --> 13:13.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if I'm ready for that.
[13:13.530 --> 13:15.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know if any of us are.
[13:15.250 --> 13:15.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't...
[13:15.630 --> 13:17.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: But he seems to be.
[13:17.450 --> 13:18.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a brave new era.
[13:18.990 --> 13:25.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can commemorate the beginning of that brave new era by pledging and receiving one of the last of these TV-B-Gones.
[13:26.570 --> 13:28.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-209-2950.
[13:28.370 --> 13:29.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's taking a bit of a somber tone.
[13:29.610 --> 13:29.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[13:29.970 --> 13:32.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know that that's where we were.
[13:32.530 --> 13:34.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Rob, you were spending some time researching the CD player.
[13:34.970 --> 13:35.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Did you get it to work?
[13:35.870 --> 13:37.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: I may have.
[13:37.190 --> 13:38.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: I cannot promise anything.
[13:38.550 --> 13:38.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, let's see.
[13:39.030 --> 13:39.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're an awful lot of buzz.
[13:40.830 --> 13:41.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
[13:41.190 --> 13:42.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think we're getting something there.
[13:43.530 --> 13:44.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[13:44.710 --> 13:45.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good work.
[13:46.270 --> 13:47.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: I turned it down just a little bit.
[13:47.850 --> 13:54.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: And what Rob was doing was getting it to play in continuous mode, not just single mode, so that we can play more than one song, which is awfully nice.
[13:54.630 --> 13:56.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because we have other things to do here.
[13:56.430 --> 13:56.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: We do.
[13:56.830 --> 13:56.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: We do.
[13:57.030 --> 13:58.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: Rather than babysit the CD player.
[13:58.490 --> 14:00.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Should I say something like, but wait, there's more?
[14:00.750 --> 14:00.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sure.
[14:01.110 --> 14:01.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Say that.
[14:01.510 --> 14:01.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[14:01.950 --> 14:02.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: But wait, there's more.
[14:03.590 --> 14:16.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you call 212-209-2950 and you don't want the TV-B-Gone, but you do want to pledge $50, you can get instead of the Trippy RGB Waves Kit, which is a...
[14:16.210 --> 14:17.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: So we want to be clear.
[14:17.530 --> 14:20.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is a thing you'll have to solder yourself, but it's pretty easy soldering.
[14:20.430 --> 14:23.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: It would be a great present for someone who wants to learn to solder.
[14:23.990 --> 14:26.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: It would be a great present for yourself if you want to learn to solder.
[14:27.070 --> 14:33.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: And what it is, is it's an RGB light, so an LED, that you...
[14:33.250 --> 14:38.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: It can display any color and you can control it by waving your hand over the board.
[14:38.690 --> 14:44.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you can also control it by programming the embedded microcontroller.
[14:44.430 --> 14:49.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it's a great way to learn about electronics, to learn about embedded microcontrollers.
[14:49.630 --> 14:52.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: And Mitch has videos for how to assemble it.
[14:52.890 --> 14:54.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: He's got very clear instructions.
[14:55.010 --> 14:57.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: It is a great thing.
[14:57.290 --> 15:06.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wherever it exists, you know, anytime there's a group of hackers assembled and there's LEDs around, just like people are in rapt attention.
[15:07.170 --> 15:09.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: And so this is an LED that you can control.
[15:09.870 --> 15:11.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can make it do whatever you want.
[15:12.910 --> 15:15.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's really quite something.
[15:15.810 --> 15:20.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you can get that with your pledge of $50, 212-209-2950.
[15:20.630 --> 15:24.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I would add something maybe we don't talk about.
[15:24.870 --> 15:26.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: But a lot of these projects are hackable.
[15:26.630 --> 15:37.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that is encouraged to use these in as many different projects as you can and adapt them and change them and borrow some of the things behind them.
[15:37.190 --> 15:43.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: So add it to your toolkit, as it were, with this promotion here for our station.
[15:44.130 --> 15:46.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-209-2950.
[15:47.130 --> 15:50.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: So Mike, round those down again, those two offerings.
[15:50.290 --> 15:51.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: So you can pledge...
[15:51.670 --> 15:54.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: For your pledge of $50, you can have a TV be gone.
[15:54.890 --> 15:59.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: You could have a Trippy RGB waves kit, which is a thing you can ask for.
[15:59.890 --> 16:03.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: But you might want both.
[16:04.390 --> 16:07.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Some of our listeners really want to support us with more than $50.
[16:08.210 --> 16:11.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we want to support them or they just can't decide between these two things.
[16:11.630 --> 16:15.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: So we have the control your environment package, we're calling it.
[16:15.890 --> 16:16.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, wow.
[16:17.870 --> 16:19.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: 212-209-2950.
[16:19.970 --> 16:25.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: And your pledge of $75 will get you both the TV be gone and the Trippy RGB waves kit.
[16:25.470 --> 16:30.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: But wait, Mike, I'm confused, because one item is $50.
[16:30.770 --> 16:31.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: The other item is also $50.
[16:32.430 --> 16:37.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: But you just said, obviously it was a mistake of some sort, you said that you could get both of those for $75.
[16:37.970 --> 16:40.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, Emmanuel, it was not a mistake.
[16:40.630 --> 16:41.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, then it's a lie.
[16:41.970 --> 16:42.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's something wrong here.
[16:43.010 --> 16:43.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's something seriously wrong.
[16:45.730 --> 16:51.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: $75, control your environment package, you will get the TV be gone and the Trippy RGB waves kit.
[16:51.750 --> 16:52.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Get out, really?
[16:52.790 --> 16:53.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's true.
[16:54.170 --> 16:58.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: So you're saying for 50% off, wait, you get 50% off, which one?
[16:58.230 --> 16:58.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm questioning your math.
[16:59.090 --> 17:02.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, if you do, well, bear with me here.
[17:02.110 --> 17:04.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you get the TV be gone, right, and then you get the, what's the other thing called?
[17:05.010 --> 17:05.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: The Trippy...
[17:05.670 --> 17:07.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Trippy RGB waves kit.
[17:07.450 --> 17:08.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Trippy RGB waves kit.
[17:08.450 --> 17:12.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: I expect to pay $50 for that, but instead I'm only paying $25, right?
[17:12.330 --> 17:13.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's one way to think about it.
[17:13.210 --> 17:14.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: So that's 50% off.
[17:14.510 --> 17:15.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's my 50% there.
[17:15.650 --> 17:16.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it's a total of $75.
[17:17.370 --> 17:18.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it works the other way around, too.
[17:18.790 --> 17:24.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you want to get the Trippy things for $50 and get the TV be gone for half price, you can do that as well.
[17:25.050 --> 17:25.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Either way, it's a great deal.
[17:26.050 --> 17:32.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: And what's amazing, what's really amazing, is that with any of these packages, you also get the radio station.
[17:32.010 --> 17:33.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: You keep us on the air.
[17:33.450 --> 17:34.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, that's really why we do this.
[17:35.010 --> 17:37.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't do this for our health or for the fun, although it is fun.
[17:38.250 --> 17:46.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: But how do you think a radio station stays on the air at 99.5 FM on top of the Empire State building for over 50 years?
[17:47.090 --> 17:48.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not magic.
[17:48.210 --> 17:49.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: Although, it is magic.
[17:49.250 --> 17:49.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry, Bernie, what?
[17:50.490 --> 17:51.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: With no commercials.
[17:51.750 --> 17:52.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: With no commercials.
[17:53.150 --> 17:53.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: Underwriting.
[17:54.310 --> 17:57.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because that's how all the other radio stations stay on the air, is with their damn commercials.
[17:58.170 --> 18:01.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't care what format you're listening to, they all have commercials.
[18:02.110 --> 18:05.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Even some of the so-called non-commercial stations have the equivalent of commercials now.
[18:06.070 --> 18:08.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like hard, hard underwriting.
[18:08.350 --> 18:08.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[18:08.910 --> 18:09.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[18:09.170 --> 18:10.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we don't even have underwriting here.
[18:10.770 --> 18:11.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you realize that?
[18:11.670 --> 18:17.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people don't seem to realize that we could, we could just one day take underwriting.
[18:17.350 --> 18:18.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it wouldn't be commercials.
[18:18.710 --> 18:21.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: It would be completely allowed in the non-commercial world.
[18:21.510 --> 18:29.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'd probably make a ton of money, but we have this, I guess it's a bit of a disease here at this radio station.
[18:29.510 --> 18:30.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: You must have heard people talk about it.
[18:30.570 --> 18:31.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's called idealism.
[18:32.270 --> 18:36.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's really a bad case of idealism here, and nobody knows how to cure it.
[18:37.070 --> 18:39.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we don't take underwriting.
[18:39.170 --> 18:50.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: So the only thing that we rely upon, other than finding bags of money in the street, which I don't think is going to happen more than once, is our listeners.
[18:50.590 --> 18:52.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's really the only thing that we can depend upon.
[18:52.950 --> 18:54.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: And they are very dependable.
[18:54.750 --> 19:03.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: I read something recently, an interview with Ira Glass, who many people know is a very famous public radio person and good at his job.
[19:03.370 --> 19:05.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: But he said something I totally disagree with.
[19:05.370 --> 19:08.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: He said, public radio needs to be ready for capitalism.
[19:08.710 --> 19:12.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: It needs to start taking more and more advertising money.
[19:12.230 --> 19:17.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that is just so not what we do here at WBAI.
[19:17.930 --> 19:18.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not what I want to do.
[19:19.430 --> 19:22.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: His show has taken money in the past from Volkswagen.
[19:23.570 --> 19:26.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Guess how awkward that made the story they tried to do on Volkswagen.
[19:26.830 --> 19:28.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm kind of curious how they did that story.
[19:29.050 --> 19:29.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[19:29.390 --> 19:30.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Did you actually hear a story about Volkswagen?
[19:31.230 --> 19:31.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, they did one.
[19:31.930 --> 19:33.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, it was okay.
[19:33.410 --> 19:35.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: They are no longer taking money from Volkswagen.
[19:35.510 --> 19:37.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: So maybe they have a little bit of their independence back.
[19:37.850 --> 19:51.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: But when we talked about Volkswagen, which we did two weeks ago, you know we were not affected by any potential to want to receive money from them in the future because we would not take their money.
[19:51.570 --> 19:56.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: We will only take your money, dear listeners, 212-209-2950.
[19:56.550 --> 20:00.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Although we might take their money because we own a Volkswagen diesel car.
[20:00.450 --> 20:00.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was just going to say, yeah.
[20:00.670 --> 20:04.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's entirely possible that we individually might take their money.
[20:04.370 --> 20:06.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: But yes, we are not going to take their money on the radio.
[20:07.290 --> 20:12.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean, unless they pledge 212-209-2950, they can be listeners as well.
[20:12.870 --> 20:19.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: We would happily send them a TVB Gone or a Trippy RGB Waves kit or the Control Your Environment package as they like.
[20:19.670 --> 20:19.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
[20:19.950 --> 20:26.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: But they get nothing in addition to that because they have more money is what I'm trying to point out here.
[20:26.370 --> 20:28.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, guys, why does that matter?
[20:28.510 --> 20:29.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: Why does what matter?
[20:29.430 --> 20:30.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not having more money or...
[20:30.830 --> 20:32.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: That you don't take money from advertisers.
[20:32.550 --> 20:39.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, because it makes our programming more, I guess, impartial?
[20:39.830 --> 20:40.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: What would you say, Bernie?
[20:41.210 --> 20:43.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: I would say we can be really objective.
[20:43.290 --> 20:49.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: We can criticize any corporation with impunity, I guess.
[20:49.690 --> 20:51.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess we could slander them and maybe get sued.
[20:51.750 --> 20:58.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: But we don't have to feel beholden to corporate underwriters on the station because there aren't any.
[20:58.910 --> 21:10.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: We can't hold our tongue, bite our tongue, and say we can't say anything bad about this company because they gave radio station WBAI a lot of money and keep the show going or keep the whole station running.
[21:10.670 --> 21:12.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: We don't have to worry about that.
[21:12.130 --> 21:12.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a special thing.
[21:12.990 --> 21:19.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's why WBAI is a listener-supported station, really in every way, shape, and form.
[21:19.570 --> 21:28.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: Listeners keep this station on the air, and tonight is the way we do that, by listeners calling 212-209-2950.
[21:28.430 --> 21:38.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can get one of the last of the TVB Gones, donated by Mitch Altman, our good friend, or a trippy RGB waves kit, which is...
[21:38.470 --> 21:40.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: I kind of look at it like an optical theremin.
[21:40.890 --> 21:45.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like, you can create any color of the rainbow with just a wave of your hand without touching anything.
[21:46.110 --> 21:47.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can kind of freak people out.
[21:47.350 --> 21:48.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, how did you do that?
[21:48.350 --> 21:49.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let me try that.
[21:49.350 --> 21:51.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then they can do it too, and they're like, this is cool.
[21:51.490 --> 21:54.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you do it in a dark room, it's really awesome because it lights the whole room up in different colors.
[21:55.490 --> 22:05.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: But if you pledge $50, you can get either one of these things, or the Control Your Environment package, which I think Mike aptly named, is available for $75.
[22:06.010 --> 22:10.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: Both of those items, by calling 212-209-2950.
[22:10.730 --> 22:12.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can do it online too, can't you?
[22:13.050 --> 22:13.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, indeed.
[22:13.850 --> 22:16.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: You can go online to give2wbai.org.
[22:17.170 --> 22:30.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: And anytime, if there are any left, you can look them up on the website, look up Off The Hook, and you will find the premiums that support our show in particular, whether it's the RGB LED, or whether it's the TVB gun, or whether it's the package of both,
[22:30.690 --> 22:41.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: or there are even some other things on there, some WBAI station things that you can get, as long as you indicate that you're donating to support your favorite show, which we hope is Off The Hook.
[22:42.950 --> 22:45.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: That is what keeps the station and the show on the air.
[22:45.270 --> 23:07.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: And what it also keeps us is not answerable to people like Volkswagen, or people like Apple Computer, or Verizon, or any of the other companies that we find ourselves regularly taking to task on this particular program, because we don't want that awkward position of like somebody who gives us money then being angry with us for saying something that they don't like.
[23:07.810 --> 23:14.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: There is a grand total of one entity that we're answerable to here on WBAI, and that's you, the listener.
[23:15.110 --> 23:25.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: And because you, the listener, are what has kept this station on the air for over five decades, you, the listener, are all that stands between us and this room being empty with nothing plugged in.
[23:26.750 --> 23:32.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: And really, it's so prevalent out there, the concept of money.
[23:32.150 --> 23:36.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: And there's so many things we don't question that we just throw money at.
[23:36.610 --> 23:38.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is something you... there's no question.
[23:38.910 --> 23:40.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: What we're telling you is true.
[23:41.010 --> 23:43.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: We've been at this for quite a long time.
[23:43.430 --> 23:55.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: All of us here are passionate about the things that we're able to talk about, the information that we can share, the responses and the interactions we get with our audience and stuff.
[23:56.010 --> 24:00.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I dare say, has allowed a lot of us to grow.
[24:00.210 --> 24:07.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we've learned as much from doing this as maybe people out there who have listened over the years.
[24:08.090 --> 24:10.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: And this is as important as ever.
[24:10.750 --> 24:14.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: We joke about some of the furnishings here and the way the station's evolving.
[24:14.790 --> 24:16.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: But really, we're in a good spot for growth.
[24:16.890 --> 24:24.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: And there could be a lot of fantastic facilities improvements and other things in the future.
[24:24.490 --> 24:26.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is how you get to support that.
[24:26.970 --> 24:29.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you are as important out there.
[24:29.270 --> 24:33.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: Listening right now, five bucks, ten bucks, whatever it is, please donate it.
[24:34.030 --> 24:35.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not about the gifts.
[24:35.250 --> 24:38.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not about any of these details.
[24:38.990 --> 24:40.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's part of the process.
[24:40.050 --> 24:41.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: We want you to become a member.
[24:41.650 --> 24:44.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: We want you to support Community Radio in New York City.
[24:45.830 --> 24:48.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-209-2950 is our telephone number.
[24:49.170 --> 24:53.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Of course, the most important thing, as Kyle said, is hearing from our listeners.
[24:54.010 --> 25:01.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's easy to forget that they're out there sometimes if we're just in this room, not being able to take phone calls half the time.
[25:01.530 --> 25:02.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Of course, we figured out a way around that.
[25:03.350 --> 25:05.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Or not interacting with them.
[25:05.170 --> 25:11.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we try to go to as many different events as possible so that we can actually meet our listeners and hear stories from them.
[25:11.730 --> 25:13.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's just so great to do that.
[25:13.990 --> 25:16.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not just the same kinds of gatherings.
[25:16.630 --> 25:18.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not just the hacker meetings every month.
[25:19.590 --> 25:21.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not just Maker Faire.
[25:21.330 --> 25:22.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not just Hope Conferences.
[25:22.630 --> 25:25.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: All kinds of things where our listeners are out there.
[25:25.370 --> 25:26.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because our listeners are everywhere.
[25:26.630 --> 25:28.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're in all walks of life.
[25:28.490 --> 25:33.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's just amazing to run into somebody who says, Hey, I recognize your voice.
[25:33.230 --> 25:34.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: I know who you are.
[25:34.110 --> 25:34.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: I listen to your show.
[25:35.430 --> 25:37.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's nothing more magical than that for us.
[25:37.670 --> 25:46.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I hope that we bring some of that magic to you in bringing you familiar voices each week, as often as possible, and telling you things that nobody else is telling you.
[25:47.050 --> 25:54.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because nobody on the mass media circuit cares enough to talk about the things we talk about.
[25:55.070 --> 25:58.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: And they also don't have the expertise to talk about them intelligently.
[25:58.370 --> 25:59.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: They go for the headlines.
[25:59.650 --> 26:00.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: They go for the tabloids.
[26:01.010 --> 26:03.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's not something that we tend to do here.
[26:03.870 --> 26:04.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: We tend to tear that apart.
[26:04.970 --> 26:09.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: Suffice to say, it is absolutely worth it from our perspective.
[26:09.490 --> 26:10.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we hope you share in that.
[26:10.990 --> 26:13.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we hope that all of this is worth it to you.
[26:13.470 --> 26:14.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: Worth it enough to give us a call.
[26:15.230 --> 26:16.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-209-2950.
[26:17.150 --> 26:28.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, before we head on into talking about various things that have gone on in the news this week, let's give out that information one more time about what we are offering tonight.
[26:28.970 --> 26:29.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: Mike?
[26:29.390 --> 26:29.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sure.
[26:30.490 --> 26:33.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, 212-209-2950 is the number to call.
[26:33.690 --> 26:38.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: And when they ask you what you would like as a thank you gift, you can say you would like the TV-B-Gone.
[26:38.970 --> 26:41.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Turn off any television anywhere in the world.
[26:41.490 --> 26:41.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: $50.
[26:42.270 --> 26:45.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can say you would like the Trippy RGB Waves kit.
[26:45.710 --> 26:47.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Really amaze your friends.
[26:47.710 --> 26:48.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Learn soldering.
[26:49.030 --> 26:51.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Great, great kit for kids or for anyone.
[26:51.790 --> 26:53.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Also, a pledge of $50.
[26:53.230 --> 27:03.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or if you would like both, you can save a little bit of money and still support the station by pledging for the Control Your Environment package at a pledge of $75.
[27:03.350 --> 27:05.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: 212-209-2950.
[27:05.490 --> 27:12.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we again want to thank Mitch Altman who donates these premiums so every dollar you donate goes to the station.
[27:12.950 --> 27:13.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: We don't keep it.
[27:13.890 --> 27:14.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mitch doesn't keep it.
[27:15.530 --> 27:18.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: The station keeps it and uses it to keep us on the air.
[27:19.690 --> 27:21.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-209-2950.
[27:21.730 --> 27:23.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bernie, anything you want to say to get people to call in?
[27:24.250 --> 27:27.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: I just want to thank our listeners for listening to this show for so long.
[27:27.990 --> 27:31.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: But you've been producing your show for, what, 27 years now?
[27:31.830 --> 27:34.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we just had an anniversary, didn't we?
[27:34.470 --> 27:37.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: Somebody told me the Hacker Calendar mentioned this.
[27:37.310 --> 27:37.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is this right, Rob?
[27:38.450 --> 27:39.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Indeed it did.
[27:39.470 --> 27:42.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Last Wednesday we were not on the air, but if we were, it would have been our birthday episode.
[27:42.950 --> 27:43.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[27:43.670 --> 27:43.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[27:44.710 --> 27:46.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: What other radio station is going to air?
[27:46.650 --> 27:52.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, actually, this show hasn't been on WBAI for the full 27 years, right?
[27:52.310 --> 27:58.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it hasn't been on every week, but it went on in October of 1988 for the first time.
[27:58.510 --> 28:10.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Actually, we tried to bring it on, I think, in July, but literally the moment that the show went on in the afternoon of that day, a fire broke out in the Empire State Building and all the radio stations in New York were taken off the air.
[28:10.270 --> 28:11.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: It really was kind of weird.
[28:11.890 --> 28:15.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, what other radio stations are going to broadcast a Hacker radio show?
[28:15.810 --> 28:29.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: Where we can talk about technology and cool things people are doing with technology and point out corporations' use and abuses of technology and security and surveillance.
[28:30.310 --> 28:36.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: No other radio station is going to air a show like this, even for a week, let alone decades.
[28:36.190 --> 28:45.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think everybody listening should try to support this sort of radio and all the other great shows on WBAI by calling 212-209-2950.
[28:45.630 --> 29:01.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: Pledge whatever you can, but if you can pledge $50, you can either get a TV-B-Gone, turn off TVs wherever you are, or a trippy RGB Waves kit, which is a really awesome kit to amaze yourself and your friends, and you can get both of those for pledging $75,
[29:01.970 --> 29:05.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: calling 212-209-2950.
[29:06.350 --> 29:06.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[29:06.930 --> 29:11.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think we got the message out there that we're here for two hours.
[29:11.170 --> 29:16.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm taking phone calls, taking listener support, and hopefully coming back many times in the future.
[29:16.190 --> 29:19.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: And by the way, those of you who want to hear old shows, they're all online.
[29:19.530 --> 29:28.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: www.2600.com/offthehook, prepare to overdose on Hacker News from the 80s into this week.
[29:28.970 --> 29:30.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's all there.
[29:30.290 --> 29:41.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's a great time capsule on a really changing world, a fascinating world that is constantly changing both technologically and socially and in every way imaginable.
[29:42.070 --> 29:42.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[29:42.730 --> 29:46.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: We had an interesting story that came across a couple of days ago.
[29:46.410 --> 29:49.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: I thought the headline was particularly charming.
[29:49.990 --> 29:54.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Southwest Airlines blames technology problems for flight delays.
[29:54.970 --> 29:55.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yes.
[29:55.990 --> 29:56.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: Technology problems.
[29:57.170 --> 30:01.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Our favorite problems behind all the inconveniences of the world.
[30:02.150 --> 30:15.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: Basically, they say hundreds of flights were delayed by technical issues that are forcing it to check in some customers manually at airports and are causing long lines, as you can imagine, checking people in manually using pens.
[30:15.790 --> 30:17.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: Actually, writing things down.
[30:17.530 --> 30:19.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: Don't they have a funny check-in thing anyway?
[30:19.790 --> 30:21.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: They have different lanes, like A, B.
[30:21.770 --> 30:23.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: They have A, B, and they also have C.
[30:23.630 --> 30:23.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: C.
[30:24.090 --> 30:25.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's a controversial one.
[30:25.190 --> 30:26.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they do waves of people.
[30:26.470 --> 30:30.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you sort of stand in a line, but not in any kind of numerical order.
[30:30.410 --> 30:31.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no.
[30:31.630 --> 30:32.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's in sections.
[30:32.750 --> 30:35.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's in how soon you checked in.
[30:35.190 --> 30:38.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Or maybe you pay them extra sometimes to jump ahead in the line.
[30:38.830 --> 30:38.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[30:39.050 --> 30:45.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: But basically what they say is everybody in A, you know, storm the plane now, get your seats, and everybody in B is going to come charging in.
[30:45.590 --> 30:48.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're going to sit wherever there's space available.
[30:48.510 --> 30:52.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then finally the poor suckers in C get to go in and find what's left.
[30:52.530 --> 30:53.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: Something like that.
[30:53.390 --> 30:54.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's all printed on your ticket now.
[30:54.710 --> 31:02.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: I remember they used to give you these different color plastic cards for each of those sections.
[31:02.770 --> 31:03.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think they...
[31:03.190 --> 31:04.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: That was quite a while ago.
[31:04.090 --> 31:05.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: They might still have the cards.
[31:05.130 --> 31:05.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do they still do that?
[31:05.510 --> 31:06.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure.
[31:06.290 --> 31:06.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure.
[31:07.430 --> 31:08.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a distinct process.
[31:08.810 --> 31:10.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: They might have just had the cards on...
[31:11.310 --> 31:14.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it was Sunday they had most of these problems.
[31:14.330 --> 31:14.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[31:15.790 --> 31:21.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: So 450 of 3,600 flights scheduled for that day had to be delayed.
[31:21.210 --> 31:22.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's actually not so bad.
[31:22.270 --> 31:23.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: I've seen a lot worse than that.
[31:24.910 --> 31:26.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: Basically, they were asking...
[31:26.810 --> 31:27.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the part I don't understand.
[31:27.650 --> 31:36.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: They were asking flyers to print their boarding passes and luggage tags at home because they didn't have the ability to do it there.
[31:36.750 --> 31:37.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know what?
[31:37.570 --> 31:38.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I'm not...
[31:38.630 --> 31:39.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bring us reams of paper.
[31:39.610 --> 31:44.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: I am not an airport representative or any kind of executive or anything like that.
[31:44.410 --> 31:45.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't know how to fly an airplane either.
[31:46.170 --> 31:56.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: But one thing I can theorize on, if somebody could print out the boarding pass at home, why couldn't they just hook up a phone line there and print it out there as well?
[31:56.450 --> 32:02.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there wasn't something that said, thou shalt not be able to print out boarding passes in the airport.
[32:02.990 --> 32:04.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have to print it someplace else.
[32:04.850 --> 32:06.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it wasn't that kind of a problem.
[32:06.670 --> 32:08.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: It was a problem with their internal computer system.
[32:08.570 --> 32:14.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe they couldn't print out boarding passes, but they could certainly set something up so people could do that on site.
[32:15.170 --> 32:20.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Instead, they were filling things out by hand, which, you know, I think you should always know how to do that.
[32:20.510 --> 32:22.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: You should always know how to do things by hand.
[32:22.570 --> 32:24.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I wonder how many people still know that.
[32:24.470 --> 32:25.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we were talking about this the other night.
[32:27.050 --> 32:27.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Handwriting.
[32:27.650 --> 32:31.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: Do they still teach kids in school cursive writing?
[32:31.310 --> 32:32.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: I hope they don't.
[32:32.990 --> 32:34.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: You hope they don't?
[32:34.190 --> 32:34.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: No.
[32:34.730 --> 32:35.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, explain.
[32:35.810 --> 32:38.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll give you your 30 seconds.
[32:38.290 --> 32:40.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: The last time I wrote in cursive was fifth grade.
[32:41.050 --> 32:41.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: What was...
[32:41.770 --> 32:53.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: And so, I learned to print, probably in first grade, like most people, and then instantly told what you're doing is wrong for the next three years of your life, and then you go back to what you did in first grade.
[32:53.690 --> 33:01.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think my handwriting would be better today if I hadn't had those, like, three formative years of being told that the way everyone writes is wrong.
[33:01.310 --> 33:08.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to use my challenge now and say that, Mike, I believe you have written in cursive language.
[33:08.410 --> 33:09.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't you sign your name?
[33:09.930 --> 33:10.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is that not cursive?
[33:11.150 --> 33:11.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, it's not.
[33:12.030 --> 33:12.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: What, you print your name?
[33:12.950 --> 33:14.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: I print quickly, yeah.
[33:15.290 --> 33:17.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're the only person in the world that prints their signature?
[33:17.710 --> 33:18.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: I might be.
[33:18.870 --> 33:21.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: I probably not, because people don't know how to write in cursive.
[33:21.530 --> 33:22.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a useless skill.
[33:23.570 --> 33:24.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah.
[33:25.290 --> 33:32.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, you know, I don't disagree with that, to be honest, but I just don't know how you could sign your name if you don't sign it in cursive.
[33:33.050 --> 33:34.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll demonstrate for you after this.
[33:34.590 --> 33:36.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I can hardly wait till 9 o'clock.
[33:36.430 --> 33:41.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't want to disrupt the flow of the show by doing it during the show, but, you know, afterwards.
[33:41.250 --> 33:42.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: Barney, you know how to write in cursive, don't you?
[33:43.370 --> 33:43.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: I do.
[33:44.050 --> 33:47.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think it's beautiful if one really learned it.
[33:47.570 --> 33:48.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, I mean, it's not mandatory.
[33:49.310 --> 33:51.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know about making it mandatory, frankly.
[33:51.390 --> 33:53.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: But I think it's a useful skill.
[33:54.010 --> 33:55.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's sort of like a combination of...
[33:55.850 --> 34:01.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's an artistic way of communicating the written word, I think.
[34:02.210 --> 34:02.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: Calligraphy.
[34:02.610 --> 34:06.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've even tried my hand at calligraphy, and that's another thing that, you know, they could teach in school.
[34:06.270 --> 34:07.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think it should be optional.
[34:07.510 --> 34:09.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think they should just get rid of it in school.
[34:09.430 --> 34:09.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: What do you think?
[34:09.910 --> 34:16.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, how do you teach or tell a first grader, by the way, it's optional, that we're going to torture you and teach you how to write in cursive.
[34:16.470 --> 34:19.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: It really was difficult learning this.
[34:19.090 --> 34:22.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: I hated it when I was in school, but, you know, I'm kind of glad I know how to do it.
[34:22.550 --> 34:28.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like Mike, I don't remember the last time I actually wrote a sentence in cursive, but I have written my name in cursive.
[34:28.950 --> 34:31.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't imagine printing my signature every time.
[34:33.210 --> 34:35.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's kind of a strange custom.
[34:35.390 --> 34:39.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think we were likening it to different alphabets, knowing two different alphabets, almost.
[34:40.190 --> 34:45.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because when you print something, it's not really very efficient, is it?
[34:46.290 --> 34:48.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's very staccato.
[34:48.570 --> 34:50.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a musical term, but...
[34:50.650 --> 34:51.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like a maker bot.
[34:51.950 --> 34:54.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, very rigid, linear.
[34:54.710 --> 34:55.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's angular.
[34:56.110 --> 34:59.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if those are also visual or geometric terms.
[34:59.390 --> 35:07.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: But that's much different from having the ability to connect words and fluidly, just continuously write.
[35:09.150 --> 35:17.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think certainly strict cursive writing is definitely out of fashion.
[35:17.370 --> 35:28.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think people that are writing shorthand and quickly tend to use bits of both printing and cursive.
[35:29.070 --> 35:30.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's another one, shorthand.
[35:31.090 --> 35:36.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how that works, but I imagine that's an endangered language as well.
[35:36.090 --> 35:39.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I also think that it's really...
[35:39.790 --> 35:47.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a sense of style to your handwriting, and I think that it's intrinsically linked to art in a lot of ways, no matter...
[35:47.450 --> 35:51.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, forever will be in a lot of ways, wherever it goes in the future.
[35:52.270 --> 35:53.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, I don't know.
[35:53.990 --> 35:58.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a really powerful form of expression, whether it should be mandatory, I don't know.
[35:58.690 --> 36:00.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, Rob, so this leaves you.
[36:00.690 --> 36:01.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Can you write your...
[36:01.910 --> 36:03.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're a painter.
[36:03.330 --> 36:06.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: You must be able to sign your name in cursive.
[36:06.570 --> 36:07.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: I am.
[36:07.610 --> 36:14.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: I am an artist, and, you know, I can look at something and paint a pretty good representation of it or draw a good representation of it or even sculpt.
[36:15.170 --> 36:21.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: But I realized recently, this past week, when I had to write a note in longhand for somebody that my handwriting is terrible.
[36:21.250 --> 36:21.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
[36:21.890 --> 36:23.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: Granted, my handwriting is awful.
[36:23.350 --> 36:31.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: I realized because I had to write a note for one of my roommates, and I don't own a printer currently, so I realized, okay, I've got to leave a note.
[36:31.950 --> 36:32.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've got to do it in longhand.
[36:33.090 --> 36:39.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I took a look at this thing after I'd finished writing it and realized it hurts to read because my writing is that terrible.
[36:39.910 --> 36:44.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it was in my normal handwriting, which is sort of a weird mix of printing and cursive.
[36:44.970 --> 36:51.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, yeah, I missed my fonts and my digital layout software.
[36:51.630 --> 36:51.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[36:52.870 --> 36:57.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: I found in one of my old dressers letters from my grandfather.
[36:57.950 --> 37:01.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: And he didn't often write letters, but when he wrote letters, they were in cursive.
[37:01.930 --> 37:10.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's just, it's very, very serious when you see that, when you see those words written in what you knew was his handwriting.
[37:10.770 --> 37:16.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: He was saying something that he wanted you to listen to, and if you were smart, you did.
[37:16.830 --> 37:26.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just wonder, will we have the same impact by checking out Grandpa's email in the future and seeing how much respect that commanded?
[37:26.890 --> 37:38.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: It speaks a lot to, I think, how much cheaper in every way that communication itself is these days because, you know, you go far back enough, just a couple of generations maybe, and someone writing a letter, that was a big deal.
[37:38.390 --> 37:42.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: You didn't write a lot of letters, but when you did, it was relatively expensive.
[37:42.930 --> 37:44.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: It was something that you didn't do all the time.
[37:44.990 --> 37:46.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: It was an occasion.
[37:46.650 --> 37:48.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the same with phone calls.
[37:48.290 --> 37:58.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: When they, you know, before they became sort of a mainstream thing everyone had access to, someone making a phone call would, you know, make sure they had their business straight and what they wanted to say beforehand because it was expensive.
[37:59.170 --> 38:09.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now when you can just like mash a keyboard and say whatever you want to whoever you want in the world for free or negligible cost, it's, we sort of have this different attitude toward communicating at all.
[38:09.410 --> 38:16.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: And also when you add in that they want you to keep it as short as possible, as succinct as possible, as abbreviated as possible, you're not really saying anything.
[38:17.550 --> 38:18.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is true.
[38:18.230 --> 38:27.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: In these days of sort of micro-blogging and stuff, but past generations had telegrams where you also had to keep it as short as possible because there was a real cost if you didn't.
[38:27.590 --> 38:28.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah, that's interesting.
[38:28.810 --> 38:29.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Interesting parallel there.
[38:30.490 --> 38:34.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Telegrams and Twitter and two things that you had to keep really, really short but for totally different reasons.
[38:34.810 --> 38:37.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I am curious and it's amazing that...
[38:37.470 --> 38:37.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, Bernie, go ahead.
[38:38.970 --> 38:39.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry to interrupt.
[38:39.850 --> 38:47.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: I just wanted to say we can get back to technology a little bit too and I'm going to date myself here but I think it was around 1980 or 81.
[38:47.230 --> 38:50.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: One, there's a company called Centronics that made printers.
[38:50.670 --> 38:55.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're famous for the Centronics parallel printer port that lived on beyond the company.
[38:55.410 --> 38:58.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: The Centronics made a printer called the Style Writer.
[38:58.490 --> 38:59.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think it was called.
[38:59.650 --> 39:02.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it used a stylus and it wrote in cursive.
[39:02.810 --> 39:17.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you could connect it to your computer and, you know, with a word processing program, have the printer write out in cursive onto a piece of paper that was wrapped around a platen like in a typewriter.
[39:17.510 --> 39:19.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I just thought that was an amazing thing.
[39:19.350 --> 39:20.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: Unfortunately, it failed.
[39:20.430 --> 39:21.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: They never really got it to work well.
[39:21.810 --> 39:22.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: There were a lot of returns.
[39:22.990 --> 39:24.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: But it's just sort of...
[39:24.470 --> 39:29.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was like the last stab of cursive in the technology world.
[39:29.310 --> 39:33.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, that's only cool if you use your own font that's your cursive.
[39:33.950 --> 39:35.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I don't think you could.
[39:35.190 --> 39:36.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think you just had to use...
[39:36.290 --> 39:40.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: There was just one font in different pitch sizes or type, you know, point sizes.
[39:40.690 --> 39:44.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: But anyhow, I just thought it was an amazing thing that it was like this printer.
[39:44.950 --> 39:51.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: It looked like a regular printer but it wrote in cursive with a pen with ink on a piece of paper wrapped around a platen.
[39:51.490 --> 39:55.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: I imagine those things are probably worth a lot of money these days if you can find a Centronic style writer.
[39:55.650 --> 39:57.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a similar thing with plotters.
[39:57.750 --> 40:01.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: Vinyl cutting is done with plotters and they can hold stylus as well, I think.
[40:02.170 --> 40:09.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I think there are certain types of printing you could do with a plotter as well when it's drawing a line in vectors as opposed to a raster-based printing.
[40:11.070 --> 40:11.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: method.
[40:11.730 --> 40:12.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, okay.
[40:12.450 --> 40:25.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: But anyway, to get back to the beginning of this going off the track on this particular subject, I am very curious as to whether or not kids still learn cursive in school or even if they learn how to print in school.
[40:25.490 --> 40:26.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'd like to know that.
[40:27.110 --> 40:28.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe they just drop these things.
[40:29.910 --> 40:37.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just something that a lot of us grew up with and we were just thinking about it the other night that, you know, when's the last time you wrote something in cursive?
[40:37.390 --> 40:41.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: There are some letters that I never quite got like a capital Q.
[40:41.230 --> 40:50.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: I never could do I never could do a capital Z in cursive but I always was very fond of the small S and the small F because they just looked very different than their printed counterparts.
[40:50.310 --> 40:51.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Most everything else looked about the same.
[40:52.890 --> 40:58.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, the Southwest article bringing it back around Yes, all the way around.
[40:58.790 --> 40:59.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: is...
[40:59.190 --> 40:59.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's true.
[41:00.210 --> 41:00.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: You really...
[41:00.930 --> 41:01.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's amazing.
[41:01.910 --> 41:03.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that this is...
[41:03.230 --> 41:06.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's worth being said that companies cannot deal sometimes.
[41:06.470 --> 41:18.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's because their systems are set up in a certain way but they're not going to go and disconnect a printer from their array of check-in computers and so on and repurpose it to make some kiosk.
[41:18.790 --> 41:19.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: There's no...
[41:19.190 --> 41:20.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they can barely...
[41:20.070 --> 41:21.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do they have a locksmith even?
[41:21.590 --> 41:22.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, do they...
[41:22.290 --> 41:24.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do they have any kind of in-house anything?
[41:24.830 --> 41:26.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't say they had to disconnect anything.
[41:27.090 --> 41:30.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: Go down to Best Buy and buy one and bring it back and everybody will be happy.
[41:30.770 --> 41:31.270]  [SPEAKER_01]: They'll be your friend.
[41:31.470 --> 41:32.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do managers think that way?
[41:32.750 --> 41:33.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, they don't.
[41:33.190 --> 41:33.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they do.
[41:34.130 --> 41:37.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, I'll file an equipment something or other.
[41:37.810 --> 41:39.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's not even...
[41:39.310 --> 41:41.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what they need hackers for.
[41:41.430 --> 41:42.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's why hack...
[41:42.070 --> 41:47.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Whenever you hear a situation like this, you got to run down there and try to help them out with innovative ideas.
[41:47.810 --> 41:48.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[41:48.470 --> 41:49.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just find it...
[41:49.510 --> 41:50.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's very...
[41:51.350 --> 41:55.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's amazing how much disarray occurs without innovation.
[41:55.850 --> 41:56.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: And what are you...
[41:56.510 --> 42:05.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're salaried and you can't come up with some innovative, you know, pen and paper logging system or something really...
[42:05.370 --> 42:11.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: Even using technology, use your, you know, administrative powers to disconnect a printer and set up a laptop or something.
[42:11.590 --> 42:13.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: The other thing I was wondering...
[42:13.030 --> 42:13.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: It would never happen.
[42:13.350 --> 42:14.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: It would never happen.
[42:14.250 --> 42:14.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I'm saying.
[42:14.990 --> 42:20.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was just wondering though, okay, they had to go back and write things out with pen and paper.
[42:21.530 --> 42:22.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Why did it take so much longer?
[42:23.090 --> 42:24.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's the way things used to work.
[42:24.550 --> 42:30.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: So why is it that when we move ahead with technology, things just don't go faster and more efficiently?
[42:30.470 --> 42:35.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: When we have to go back to the way it was, shouldn't it go the same speed as it used to go rather than really, really slow?
[42:36.330 --> 42:37.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is it just because we're not used to it?
[42:38.150 --> 42:44.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I mean, the computers are faster, but they didn't use the time savings to save customers' time.
[42:44.370 --> 42:46.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: They used the time savings to hire fewer employees.
[42:47.150 --> 42:47.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[42:47.430 --> 42:49.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: These are all the messy parts of their process.
[42:50.210 --> 42:56.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: The actual moving of humans and putting waste out, fuel in, bags on, bags off.
[42:57.030 --> 42:59.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: That is the messiness of their thing.
[42:59.450 --> 43:09.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: And even that gets delayed if bags get slowed down or lost and things stack up on each other if it's a security thing or weather even is a great example.
[43:09.490 --> 43:17.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: So they're all going quite fast, but they've optimized as many things as they can in the process up to and including getting you checked in and everything.
[43:18.350 --> 43:29.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: But after that, it really does take real time and other kind of extenuating things including like, I don't know, weather and other problems, technical or otherwise, would slow them down a lot.
[43:29.710 --> 43:38.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you'd get people confusion, especially if they can't communicate and tell people where to go without the systems they're relying on and stuff so heavily.
[43:38.770 --> 43:40.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: This makes me think, though.
[43:41.930 --> 43:43.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Basically, do they still do this with...
[43:43.870 --> 43:50.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: I know I'm asking a lot of questions about what they do in school these days, but they do this thing where they test out the back door of the bus occasionally.
[43:50.990 --> 43:58.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is drill day and you jump out the back and you see if you can do that successfully and if so, then okay, you must be safe.
[43:58.950 --> 44:08.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think they should do something similar to businesses in this country and every country too where all of a sudden your technology stops working.
[44:08.430 --> 44:09.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Can you survive?
[44:09.770 --> 44:10.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Can you figure something out?
[44:11.110 --> 44:15.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Can you survive without your modern phone system or your cell phones or your computers?
[44:16.290 --> 44:17.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: Can you still run a business?
[44:17.950 --> 44:20.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you can, I think you probably have a pretty good business.
[44:20.510 --> 44:32.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that would be fantastic either team building or braking, but it's a good exercise and the thing is, I remember doing that with the emergency exits on the bus and I didn't ride the bus, but...
[44:32.790 --> 44:33.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, how did you do it then?
[44:34.050 --> 44:34.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you didn't ride...
[44:34.650 --> 44:35.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: You had to get on the bus and jump off?
[44:36.030 --> 44:38.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: All the students were required to because of field trips.
[44:39.250 --> 44:40.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, field trips.
[44:40.630 --> 44:42.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you got to know how to get off the bus anyway, even if you don't...
[44:42.970 --> 44:58.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're not a normal day-to-day rider of the bus, but it's important and it gives you a sense of how things work and if you're exposed to that situation, you'll at least have had some concept of how not to panic and how to maybe coordinate some resources.
[44:59.050 --> 45:03.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: And maybe even how your system works, how your business works.
[45:03.830 --> 45:04.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: So that's an idea.
[45:04.790 --> 45:17.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: I would be happy to help some companies out and without warning because it's got to be something that they are prepared for, just yank their power and their computer connectivity and everything like that.
[45:17.150 --> 45:20.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: They could call me the Johnny Appleseed of destruction or whatever.
[45:21.670 --> 45:24.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't care, but it would be an educational thing, I think.
[45:24.930 --> 45:25.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think you need a better name.
[45:26.270 --> 45:27.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, I just thought of it now.
[45:27.830 --> 45:28.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Give me a break.
[45:28.450 --> 45:29.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll come up with something together.
[45:30.310 --> 45:33.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, it's 746 now, 747.
[45:33.750 --> 45:37.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: We spent almost 20 minutes talking about this based on just one story.
[45:38.070 --> 45:42.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Boy, what a tangent we went off on, but that's the kind of thing we can do here on a non-commercial radio station.
[45:43.170 --> 45:52.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: And if you support that, give us a call 212-209-2950, pledge whatever you can afford and keep this radio station here because honestly, that's part of the magic.
[45:53.230 --> 45:54.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good thing we brought two stories.
[45:55.390 --> 45:58.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: We did bring two stories and we're trying to stretch it out as much as possible.
[45:58.350 --> 46:03.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, actually, we brought a whole lot of stories and a bunch of listener mail as well.
[46:03.650 --> 46:04.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: We could go on.
[46:04.590 --> 46:07.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we could do this show for eight hours if we had to.
[46:07.510 --> 46:09.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'd get mighty uncomfortable in here.
[46:09.630 --> 46:10.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: You hear?
[46:10.490 --> 46:12.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: But we could do it.
[46:12.630 --> 46:13.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: We really could.
[46:14.490 --> 46:19.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, there are things to talk about in this culture of ours, in the hacker culture, that are just fascinating.
[46:19.890 --> 46:22.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's something that our listeners bring to the table as well.
[46:23.770 --> 46:25.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: And are we going to try to take phone calls later?
[46:25.670 --> 46:25.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you think?
[46:26.010 --> 46:27.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe in the second hour sometime?
[46:27.590 --> 46:27.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah?
[46:27.850 --> 46:28.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, sure.
[46:28.670 --> 46:29.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have this little gizmo here?
[46:29.630 --> 46:35.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it'll still work the way it has and it might be a bit of a carnival.
[46:35.270 --> 46:35.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[46:35.610 --> 46:35.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see.
[46:36.050 --> 46:36.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: It'll be fun.
[46:36.790 --> 46:38.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: Carnival, radio, or something.
[46:38.790 --> 46:41.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: It'll be fun, but it won't be optimal.
[46:42.050 --> 46:49.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: We will take your calls on the air later, but right now, we can take your calls to pledge your support to the station, 212-209-2950.
[46:50.230 --> 46:58.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Any amount you can pledge is great, but if you pledge $50, we'll give you a TVBGone or a Trippy RGB Waves kit.
[46:58.350 --> 47:01.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you pledge $75, we'll send you both.
[47:01.950 --> 47:03.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the control your environment package.
[47:04.130 --> 47:06.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you have more money than that, pledge more money than that.
[47:07.030 --> 47:07.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Keep us on the air.
[47:07.870 --> 47:08.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: It would be great.
[47:09.650 --> 47:10.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[47:10.470 --> 47:10.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Rob?
[47:10.890 --> 47:15.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: And of course, any of those pledge levels also gets you a voice in what happens here at WBAI.
[47:15.610 --> 47:24.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: You become a member of the station and you get a say in what goes on from here because it's not just something you're...
[47:24.710 --> 47:25.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not a one-directional process.
[47:25.910 --> 47:28.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're not just throwing money at it and that's it.
[47:28.270 --> 47:36.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: You are becoming part of what happens here at WBAI and what I don't think would happen anywhere else and what couldn't happen again if we lost what we have here.
[47:37.090 --> 47:42.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: So 212-209-2950 or give2wbai.org because that's what keeps us going.
[47:43.610 --> 47:51.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: That support is absolutely essential going forward with WBAI and Off The Hook and we need you to call in.
[47:52.150 --> 47:53.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: We've got a couple different items.
[47:53.750 --> 47:54.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's really not about that though.
[47:55.250 --> 48:00.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: Any kind of pledge level, anything that works for you, we would greatly appreciate it.
[48:00.630 --> 48:07.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: If as many people call in as have been drag racing down Atlantic Avenue in the last few minutes, we will be doing pretty well.
[48:07.910 --> 48:09.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-209-2950.
[48:10.350 --> 48:11.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: Keep Off The Hook.
[48:11.190 --> 48:12.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Keep WBAI on the air.
[48:13.350 --> 48:13.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, guess what?
[48:13.990 --> 48:14.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have a second story.
[48:15.090 --> 48:15.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have something else, Mike?
[48:15.750 --> 48:22.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I'm just going to say that's pretty unlikely that everyone pledging, racing down Atlantic Avenue is going to pledge because...
[48:22.470 --> 48:23.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I didn't say they were going to pledge.
[48:24.010 --> 48:24.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're driving.
[48:24.750 --> 48:25.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: They shouldn't even be calling.
[48:26.090 --> 48:28.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's a good advice.
[48:28.270 --> 48:30.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: I hope our listeners don't call while driving.
[48:30.910 --> 48:35.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: But look, not everyone wants to hear a hacker show.
[48:35.590 --> 48:38.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not everyone who wants to hear a hacker show knows they want to hear a hacker show.
[48:38.770 --> 48:39.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: They'll just be turned off.
[48:39.550 --> 48:42.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: But WBAI is the kind of place that will give us a...
[48:42.270 --> 48:46.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: not just give us a chance, but give us a home for more than two decades.
[48:46.630 --> 48:49.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: No other radio station in New York City would do that.
[48:49.430 --> 48:50.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you...
[48:50.090 --> 48:55.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: If this is the only show on the station that you like, 212-209-2950.
[48:55.910 --> 49:00.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: And of course, if there's lots of shows on the station that you like, then you really have no choice but to call.
[49:00.490 --> 49:05.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's a good point because when you listen to a place like this, you're going to hear things that make you happy.
[49:06.850 --> 49:10.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're going to hear frustrated with the way things even work here.
[49:11.050 --> 49:13.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that happens when you get very involved.
[49:13.310 --> 49:20.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: When you become somebody who works here, you get kind of cynical sometimes because it's like moving a rock uphill.
[49:20.590 --> 49:22.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: It really can be a challenge.
[49:22.750 --> 49:28.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: And my hat's off to people who put in so much time getting things to work here.
[49:29.190 --> 49:31.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: But that's no reason to give up.
[49:31.230 --> 49:35.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's no reason to say, well, because I don't like the way things are all the time, I can't support this.
[49:35.990 --> 49:43.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: If there is just one thing you like that makes your life a little bit better, then it's worth preserving that, I think.
[49:43.570 --> 49:45.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-209-2950.
[49:45.450 --> 49:48.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: Voice your support by calling up and pledging.
[49:48.430 --> 49:51.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's how we that's how we've moved forward since 1960.
[49:51.470 --> 49:52.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's incredible.
[49:52.830 --> 49:53.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, second story.
[49:54.150 --> 49:56.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's see how much of a tangent we can get off on here.
[49:57.130 --> 50:03.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: We were talking about Volkswagen last week and apparently it's just the tip of the iceberg because there are other companies too.
[50:03.930 --> 50:18.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: A couple of weeks after Volkswagen was laid low by the discovery that some of its diesel-powered cars cheated on emissions tests, Samsung is facing an accusation that its televisions appear more energy efficient under test conditions than in everyday use.
[50:18.710 --> 50:19.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Imagine that.
[50:20.110 --> 50:26.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, tests conducted by Compliant TV, which is a testing group funded by the European Union, spotted the discrepancy.
[50:26.470 --> 50:27.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's according to The Guardian last Thursday.
[50:28.350 --> 50:33.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: However, Samsung strongly denied that it's gaming the system to make its products look better in regulatory lab tests.
[50:34.110 --> 50:39.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: At the heart of the matter is a feature in Samsung TVs called Motion Lighting.
[50:39.510 --> 50:45.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's designed to reduce screen brightness and thus energy consumption when the picture on the screen is in motion.
[50:45.390 --> 50:49.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Compliant TV has said that motion lighting is only activated during tests.
[50:50.090 --> 50:59.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: The laboratories observed different TV behaviors during the measurements and this raised the possibility of the TVs detecting a test procedure and adapting their power consumption accordingly.
[51:00.190 --> 51:09.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: Such phenomenon was not proven within the compliant TV tests but some tested TVs gave the impression that they detected a test situation.
[51:09.290 --> 51:20.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: This finding heightens concerns that as computers spread into many more nooks of our lives products might be adapting their behavior to conditions in ways that are nefarious not just clever and helpful.
[51:20.670 --> 51:27.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: Most people carefully cultivate their appearance on Facebook and job applications to put themselves in a favorable light.
[51:27.470 --> 51:28.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: Interesting parallel here.
[51:28.530 --> 51:31.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: But we're not used to computers being so crafty.
[51:32.110 --> 51:33.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: What do you guys think of this?
[51:33.750 --> 51:46.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm just curious how they did it because I mean emissions testing equipment is big and inexpensive and most people don't have it but you can buy a wattmeter for like 20 bucks.
[51:46.790 --> 51:52.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: I bought one actually just recently and see how much energy your appliances are using.
[51:52.570 --> 51:58.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it does seem a little more nebulous here as far as how to actually figure out that they're cheating and what they're cheating at.
[51:59.230 --> 52:04.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: Samsung says motion lighting is not a setting that only activates during compliance testing.
[52:04.710 --> 52:12.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: On the contrary it's a default setting which works both in the lab and at home delivering energy savings and helping us to reduce our environmental impact etc.
[52:13.150 --> 52:13.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: etc.
[52:14.250 --> 52:18.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: It shouldn't be a surprise though to find observers taking a skeptical stance right now.
[52:19.290 --> 52:27.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Volkswagen after all just lost their chief executive nearly half the market value after admitting they used defeat device software to clamp down on emissions.
[52:27.870 --> 52:31.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Samsung itself has used special modes during testing in 2013.
[52:32.430 --> 52:44.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: It among several smartphone makers basically were found to use software that detected when people were performing speed tests and revved up system performance at that time.
[52:44.790 --> 52:46.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: That to me is a bigger scandal.
[52:46.650 --> 52:53.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I mean that seems a lot more I don't want to say easier but more practical to get away with.
[52:54.270 --> 53:00.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can detect software that's part of common benchmarks and you know optimize for it.
[53:02.250 --> 53:06.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you know of course it wouldn't shock me to learn that Samsung is doing precisely that.
[53:06.370 --> 53:14.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: All these companies are completely untrustworthy and you know many of them would be willing to be our sponsors and we wouldn't be able to say that about them anymore.
[53:14.330 --> 53:15.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: We wouldn't be able to say Samsung sucks.
[53:16.050 --> 53:18.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's hard to say but we can say that.
[53:19.030 --> 53:23.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think I'm sorry I keep correcting you guys.
[53:23.550 --> 53:25.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: I have a little latency out here on the cell phone.
[53:26.210 --> 53:28.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think this sort of technological cheating...
[53:29.510 --> 53:30.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: Can you hear me?
[53:31.190 --> 53:31.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: Can you hear me?
[53:32.170 --> 53:32.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, go ahead.
[53:33.410 --> 53:34.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, I hear you.
[53:34.630 --> 53:35.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: Can you hear me?
[53:36.890 --> 53:40.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: The technological cheating I think has spread into a lot of other things.
[53:41.930 --> 54:10.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I think a friend of mine was talking to me the other day he works for a company that does services for a big investment banking company and he discovered that this company was not using a firewall for some kind of SEC compliance security exchange commission because it added some latency to the trading which microseconds can translate to millions of dollars in some of these investment banking
[54:10.730 --> 54:11.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: trades.
[54:11.470 --> 54:17.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: So they just left the thing disconnected and they knew when the SEC was going to come and do their compliance testing.
[54:17.690 --> 54:21.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: So they just reconnected the firewall when they knew the SEC was coming.
[54:21.530 --> 54:35.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I think this is probably pervading so many areas, so many companies and industries are probably turning to technological cheating because the regulators may not have the skills to detect this sort of thing.
[54:35.290 --> 54:50.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I think this is a good example of why hackers and people like them are needed to watch what's really going on and to work in compliance industries to make sure that there's not technological cheating going on.
[54:50.350 --> 54:55.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: It really affects all of our lives, you know, like the Volkswagen thing, causes a lot of air pollution and can kill people.
[54:55.950 --> 54:57.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bernie, I want to disagree slightly.
[54:57.990 --> 55:05.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think in many cases it may be incompetent regulators, but in many cases it is not incompetent regulators, but it is defunded regulators.
[55:05.710 --> 55:10.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: It is a lot of these requirements are supposed to be self-enforced.
[55:10.970 --> 55:16.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's absolutely no one regulating them in most cases or very, very few people regulating them.
[55:16.530 --> 55:17.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this is not a coincidence.
[55:17.950 --> 55:23.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, the big corporate interests have lobbied to cut regulatory funding in all sorts of industries.
[55:24.410 --> 55:26.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, you know, it doesn't require a big conspiracy.
[55:27.050 --> 55:44.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think there's like three people in a room saying that this is how the world is going to work, but it is a very deliberate push by entities that don't want to be regulated to reduce the effectiveness of the regulators so that they can say the regulators are ineffective and cut them even further.
[55:44.570 --> 55:51.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we see this especially in the financial industry, but also the car industry and just all kinds of industries.
[55:52.010 --> 55:54.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we need to be on the lookout for it.
[55:55.770 --> 55:58.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oil and gas exploration?
[55:58.690 --> 55:59.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, of course.
[55:59.090 --> 55:59.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Does that ring a bell?
[55:59.970 --> 56:00.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[56:00.390 --> 56:08.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, the thing to remember is that we can't blame the computers for this because people program the computers, people program technology to cheat.
[56:08.350 --> 56:09.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what we're seeing here.
[56:09.750 --> 56:12.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: You need to program other bits of technology to find the cheaters.
[56:13.190 --> 56:17.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's interesting, Bernie, you said that hackers should be the people to do this.
[56:17.070 --> 56:17.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I agree.
[56:17.830 --> 56:21.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hackers are in a great position to uncover things like this.
[56:21.890 --> 56:36.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: But in the mainstream, which is every other radio station on the dial, hackers are seen as the problem, as the ones that are doing this, which I think is really funny when you look at who the perpetrators are, corporate executives and people with tons of money that want even more,
[56:36.550 --> 56:38.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: not exactly hackers, right?
[56:39.870 --> 56:40.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: No.
[56:41.150 --> 56:42.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're criminals.
[56:42.570 --> 56:43.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's a difference.
[56:44.630 --> 56:45.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
[56:46.090 --> 56:46.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[56:46.790 --> 56:51.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: We are coming up to our first hour, our first hour break here.
[56:52.910 --> 56:57.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: WBAI New York, where Off The Hook usually signs off about this time.
[56:57.630 --> 57:03.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're staying on for another whole hour because we're doing a two-hour program tonight and we're asking for your support.
[57:03.770 --> 57:05.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-209-2950.
[57:06.090 --> 57:07.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's our telephone number.
[57:07.570 --> 57:11.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Please call us and pledge for one of the amazing things that we are offering tonight.
[57:12.050 --> 57:13.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: Mike, what are those things again?
[57:13.810 --> 57:17.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you pledge 212-209-2950, you pledge $50.
[57:17.930 --> 57:25.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can receive as a token of our thanks the TV-B-Gone, which can turn off any television or almost any television.
[57:25.870 --> 57:33.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can receive the Trippy RGB Waves kit, which is a great way to learn to solder, a great project if you already know how to solder.
[57:33.890 --> 57:41.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can, you know, amaze your friends by waving your hand over this board and controlling your delight.
[57:42.150 --> 57:46.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can amaze your friends even further by changing the software to do whatever you want it to do.
[57:46.390 --> 57:54.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you pledge $75 and ask for the control your environment package, you will get both the TV-B-Gone and the Trippy RGB Waves kit.
[57:54.610 --> 57:56.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: 212-209-2950.
[57:58.490 --> 58:01.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I want to add something to this TV thing.
[58:01.990 --> 58:04.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: And since we have more time, I can add to this.
[58:05.370 --> 58:05.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: Please.
[58:06.170 --> 58:09.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, as I sit here, I'm thinking about it, and it's so funny.
[58:10.530 --> 58:13.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: First of all, those settings aren't really spectacular.
[58:13.850 --> 58:14.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's...
[58:14.810 --> 58:19.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you want to save energy, turn your TV off, you know, make sure...
[58:19.970 --> 58:20.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: We can help you do that.
[58:20.630 --> 58:20.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah.
[58:21.070 --> 58:22.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: This kit will help you do that.
[58:23.690 --> 58:25.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just to be clear, the TV-B-Gone is not a kit.
[58:26.090 --> 58:27.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: It is pre-assembled.
[58:27.370 --> 58:28.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Trippy RGB Waves is a kit.
[58:29.210 --> 58:29.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: True.
[58:29.590 --> 58:31.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: One is a kit, one is pre-assembled.
[58:31.810 --> 58:34.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: All you have to do is go out and find some TVs.
[58:34.730 --> 58:36.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think really what's going on here is marketing.
[58:36.990 --> 58:39.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: They, after all, are trying to sell TVs.
[58:39.430 --> 58:47.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: And so they've got this thing they can do in software that basically, more or less, looks like it's saving energy.
[58:48.350 --> 58:49.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think that's...
[58:49.930 --> 58:51.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just marketing.
[58:51.330 --> 58:51.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: It really...
[58:51.770 --> 58:52.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's useless.
[58:54.790 --> 59:05.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: To modify content you're watching with whatever processing they're doing in the TV really degrades the work that the people that created that content put into it.
[59:05.470 --> 59:10.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: And if it's in the name of saving a fraction of a watt somewhere, it...
[59:11.350 --> 59:23.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, I would argue that a lot of those like motion flow, a lot of those optimizing things your TV is telling you that it can do for your life and your content, it is all complete boulder dash.
[59:24.090 --> 59:25.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: It is useless.
[59:25.370 --> 59:32.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Set your TV, calibrate it to the right picture and color levels that, you know, stuff you're comfortable with there.
[59:33.010 --> 59:34.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: But all this other stuff is just a total waste.
[59:34.870 --> 59:45.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's really marketing and a complete distraction from the myriad of other things you can do to save energy and be efficient and so on in your life.
[59:45.070 --> 59:47.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: But you know something that doesn't take a lot of energy?
[59:47.730 --> 59:49.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Radio receivers are low energy devices.
[59:50.710 --> 59:52.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: Radio is low energy medium.
[59:53.630 --> 59:56.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: So on your end, on the listener's end, it's a very low energy medium.
[59:57.050 --> 01:00:04.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: On our end, we have a lot of power that we need to put through a lot of machines in order to get what we in order to get what we're doing out there to you.
[01:00:04.170 --> 01:00:11.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the only way we can keep that switched on and keep the lights on and keep all these little boards fueled with electricity so we can fuel them with noise.
[01:00:12.230 --> 01:00:20.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's by calling 212-209-2950 or going to give2wbai.org and supporting off the hook, supporting WBAI and keeping us going.
[01:00:20.690 --> 01:00:23.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Rob, I have to interrupt you here because it is 8 o'clock.
[01:00:24.130 --> 01:00:24.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Actually, it's 8.01.
[01:00:24.970 --> 01:00:30.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: You are listening to WBAI New York and as per FCC regulations, we must air 30 seconds straight of Kraftwerk.
[01:00:44.410 --> 01:00:46.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, I played that at the worst possible time, didn't I?
[01:00:47.610 --> 01:00:52.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, you know, that would have worked any other time in that whole set except for when they faded out like that.
[01:00:53.310 --> 01:00:55.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's play 15 more seconds.
[01:01:15.240 --> 01:01:19.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you are listening to Off The Hook here on WBAI.
[01:01:19.260 --> 01:01:21.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're not listening to the Personal Computer Show because it's not on tonight.
[01:01:22.340 --> 01:01:26.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: It will be on next week at this time, maybe other times as well.
[01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:29.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we'll be back in two weeks.
[01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:37.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're usually on from 7 to 8 every Wednesday, but tonight we're on from 7 to 9 because we are bringing you a special program, special fundraising edition.
[01:01:37.860 --> 01:01:39.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, this is Off the Topic.
[01:01:40.820 --> 01:01:42.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is that the name of the show now?
[01:01:42.100 --> 01:01:42.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Off the Topic?
[01:01:42.720 --> 01:01:42.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:01:43.660 --> 01:01:44.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's good.
[01:01:44.180 --> 01:01:44.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: I like that.
[01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:45.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: I like that.
[01:01:45.640 --> 01:01:46.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: We are...
[01:01:46.440 --> 01:01:49.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's Emmanuel here, Kyle over there, Rob T.
[01:01:49.520 --> 01:01:50.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Firefly, Mike.
[01:01:51.300 --> 01:01:53.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think our listeners can see you pointing.
[01:01:53.700 --> 01:01:55.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'm pointing to you to make you say hello.
[01:01:56.040 --> 01:01:57.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're pointing down to Bernie now.
[01:01:57.720 --> 01:01:58.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm pointing down to Bernie.
[01:01:58.660 --> 01:01:59.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bernie, say hello.
[01:01:59.960 --> 01:02:01.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello from Philadelphia.
[01:02:01.060 --> 01:02:01.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[01:02:02.500 --> 01:02:05.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we are going to try and take phone calls in our...
[01:02:05.400 --> 01:02:07.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: in interval style that we have here.
[01:02:08.020 --> 01:02:09.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have to set some things up.
[01:02:09.620 --> 01:02:10.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: I had to basically...
[01:02:10.540 --> 01:02:15.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have a browser open, but I almost assigned a phone number to somebody on staff and I didn't want to do that.
[01:02:15.940 --> 01:02:16.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: I have to open a different browser.
[01:02:17.440 --> 01:02:17.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[01:02:18.020 --> 01:02:19.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so you know what?
[01:02:19.260 --> 01:02:23.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: I even have a third story here that we can focus on a little bit as well.
[01:02:23.740 --> 01:02:30.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that is the story of Julian Assange, a continuing story of Julian Assange in the Ecuadorian embassy.
[01:02:30.860 --> 01:02:42.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: On Monday, the London Metropolitan Police announced that they would be ending their permanent guard at the Ecuadorian embassy where WikiLeaks found that Julian Assange has been taking refuge for the last three years.
[01:02:43.520 --> 01:02:44.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's simply incredible.
[01:02:45.560 --> 01:02:53.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, they're not saying why exactly they're doing this, but of course, it's got people just a little bit nervous as to if something else is being planned instead.
[01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:58.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think anybody doubts that the embassy is not still being watched quite carefully.
[01:02:58.660 --> 01:03:02.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: I doubt he can just hop out over to a pub or something like that.
[01:03:02.540 --> 01:03:06.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not going to really go that easily.
[01:03:06.640 --> 01:03:28.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: But it was insanely ridiculous that for all this time they wasted, what was it, 12 million pounds in police overtime just standing around watching the embassy when they certainly don't put that kind of effort into anybody else that they're looking at for the kinds of offenses he's accused of.
[01:03:28.880 --> 01:03:31.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bernie, any thoughts or predictions?
[01:03:31.880 --> 01:03:35.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I think it's a safe bet that the U.S.
[01:03:35.220 --> 01:03:48.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: intelligence agents who I think really want to get their clutches on Julian Assange for having something to do with leaking the Clinton and the State Department cables.
[01:03:48.960 --> 01:03:56.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: A lot of the really interesting secret communications during when Hillary Clinton was the Department of State.
[01:03:57.220 --> 01:04:01.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: This has cost British taxpayers about $17 million equivalent.
[01:04:02.300 --> 01:04:03.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a huge amount of money.
[01:04:03.640 --> 01:04:04.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you're right.
[01:04:04.160 --> 01:04:04.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is a...
[01:04:04.700 --> 01:04:19.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not going to dismiss the charges he's being charged with in Sweden, but frankly, this is a highly disproportionate level of attention that the British government has been giving, I'm sure, with the behest of the U.S.
[01:04:19.500 --> 01:04:25.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: government to some guy holed up in an embassy for charges that could be handled very simply in Sweden.
[01:04:25.080 --> 01:04:29.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think he's still waiting to be interviewed by the Swedish authorities in the Ecuadorian embassy in London.
[01:04:29.680 --> 01:04:31.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think he's been waiting like three years for that.
[01:04:32.160 --> 01:04:33.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Why don't they do that?
[01:04:33.520 --> 01:04:36.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, Bernie, now, let's take it a step further.
[01:04:37.260 --> 01:04:44.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think this is an effort to kind of entice him, get him to be brave enough to maybe step out a bit enough to get caught?
[01:04:45.500 --> 01:04:45.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe.
[01:04:46.300 --> 01:04:47.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe he's a trap.
[01:04:47.420 --> 01:04:49.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm, you know, just putting that out there.
[01:04:50.740 --> 01:04:52.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, he wasn't born yesterday.
[01:04:53.200 --> 01:04:53.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I know.
[01:04:53.940 --> 01:05:03.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: And when you spend three years inside an embassy eluding the authorities, I don't think you're going to do something stupid and immediately get caught or snagged by them.
[01:05:03.660 --> 01:05:07.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: The whole thing has been so insanely ridiculous and embarrassing to them as well.
[01:05:08.320 --> 01:05:10.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's just fascinating to see this story.
[01:05:10.640 --> 01:05:12.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can't predict where this story is going to go.
[01:05:13.760 --> 01:05:16.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: But at some point, something has to change.
[01:05:16.680 --> 01:05:18.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: So you heard it here first.
[01:05:18.220 --> 01:05:19.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're backing off.
[01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:20.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's what they want us to think.
[01:05:21.220 --> 01:05:21.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Visually.
[01:05:22.060 --> 01:05:41.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, like, again, without dismissing the magnitude of what Julian is accused of, there are many other sexual assault victims in the UK and Sweden who I'm sure wish their respective governments would spend tens of millions of pounds on prosecuting those cases.
[01:05:41.340 --> 01:05:45.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Which tells me and I'm sure it tells a lot of other people that this has nothing to do with sexual assault.
[01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:53.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: This has got something to do with WikiLeaks, with the thorn in the side of the US government that this guy has been for years now.
[01:05:54.380 --> 01:05:59.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, a part of me wants to say, Julian, you know what, why don't you just walk outside and see what happens?
[01:05:59.780 --> 01:06:03.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, how can you ask somebody to sacrifice themselves like that?
[01:06:03.480 --> 01:06:04.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, wow, I'm curious.
[01:06:04.820 --> 01:06:16.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: I want to know, you know, will they actually be that flagrant about it where they'll say, yeah, you can go to Sweden, no one's going to bug you, and then all of a sudden, you know, you're on the Midnight Express out to Guantanamo.
[01:06:17.660 --> 01:06:22.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's something that we'd like answers to, but I think we're going to have to wait a lot longer.
[01:06:24.320 --> 01:06:32.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's definitely this kind of weird situation where, you know, if he could walk outside and, you know, get himself arrested, what would happen next?
[01:06:32.700 --> 01:06:34.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we're seeing what happens to whistleblowers.
[01:06:34.940 --> 01:06:42.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're seeing what happens to Chelsea Manning where she's now in prison for what will likely be the rest of her life.
[01:06:42.440 --> 01:06:46.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have Edward Snowden who's in exile for who knows how long that's going to last.
[01:06:46.500 --> 01:06:49.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: You guys happened to see that Snowden was brought up in the debates last night?
[01:06:50.200 --> 01:06:50.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: I did not see that.
[01:06:50.940 --> 01:06:51.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Did anybody watch the debates?
[01:06:52.720 --> 01:06:53.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: No.
[01:06:53.200 --> 01:06:54.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh.
[01:06:54.340 --> 01:06:54.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, Bernie?
[01:06:55.040 --> 01:06:58.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: I listened to part of it, but I didn't catch that part.
[01:06:58.240 --> 01:06:59.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: What was said about it?
[01:06:59.120 --> 01:06:59.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:06:59.600 --> 01:07:07.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, okay, one of the questions that Anderson Cooper asked, I think it was Anderson Cooper was, is Edward Snowden a hero?
[01:07:07.220 --> 01:07:09.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: It was several layers to it.
[01:07:09.340 --> 01:07:09.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Or a traitor.
[01:07:10.080 --> 01:07:10.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Along those lines, yeah.
[01:07:11.580 --> 01:07:14.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: And what would you, what would you, what would you do?
[01:07:14.160 --> 01:07:15.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: What would you be in favor of?
[01:07:15.680 --> 01:07:17.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: And some of the answers were rather interesting.
[01:07:19.180 --> 01:07:20.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: What was the most interesting?
[01:07:20.660 --> 01:07:21.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you want us to tell you now?
[01:07:21.940 --> 01:07:22.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: The spoiler alert.
[01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:22.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:07:23.100 --> 01:07:27.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I mean, you can spoiler the debate that already took place.
[01:07:27.240 --> 01:07:28.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think that's fair.
[01:07:28.700 --> 01:07:33.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, now, who, yeah, but people say that about, you know, the latest episode of Game of Thrones too, and they get angry.
[01:07:34.820 --> 01:07:35.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Someone dies.
[01:07:35.640 --> 01:07:36.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Ten years later.
[01:07:36.480 --> 01:07:36.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:07:37.800 --> 01:07:40.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, okay, three and a half weeks earlier.
[01:07:40.140 --> 01:07:41.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's, let's look at that.
[01:07:42.780 --> 01:07:48.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, predictably, Hillary Clinton was not very much in favor of having him come back and not face charges.
[01:07:49.580 --> 01:07:51.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: She, she said he betrayed the law.
[01:07:52.220 --> 01:07:53.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: he has to, I think, face the music.
[01:07:53.880 --> 01:07:54.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Face the music.
[01:07:54.360 --> 01:07:55.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what she said.
[01:07:55.300 --> 01:07:55.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[01:07:56.040 --> 01:08:02.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bernie, Bernie Sanders was a bit, a bit more reasonable.
[01:08:03.360 --> 01:08:03.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is that the word?
[01:08:04.480 --> 01:08:05.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[01:08:05.280 --> 01:08:10.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: He thinks that there needs to be more reform.
[01:08:10.980 --> 01:08:19.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think he used the word reform that he, and he would, first thing, without a doubt, he would dismantle what has been done with the NSA and will reform it.
[01:08:20.340 --> 01:08:21.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: No question.
[01:08:21.420 --> 01:08:26.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: He, he basically, he said that, yes, he broke the law and there should be some penalty.
[01:08:26.860 --> 01:08:27.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:30.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, he brought, I'm even talking like him now.
[01:08:30.220 --> 01:08:30.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:08:30.440 --> 01:08:40.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: He, he, he actually did a service to everybody in the United States by showing them something that the government was doing that was illegal.
[01:08:40.600 --> 01:08:50.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just think that was, you know, you can't just go out there and say and expect most of America to, to support you that, yeah, he should come back and face no penalty whatsoever.
[01:08:50.180 --> 01:08:56.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: The way he said it, I think, is the, is the most open indoor policy that, that anyone has presented so far.
[01:08:57.260 --> 01:08:58.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: What do the other three say?
[01:08:58.440 --> 01:09:07.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: I always am mixing those three up, but, I don't think they, they said anything really of, of substance that was any different than anything we heard so far.
[01:09:08.040 --> 01:09:18.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, as we've said before about Hillary Clinton's idea that he should just come back and face the music, there is no way that he can come back and face the music in any sort of, in any sort of justice bearing manner.
[01:09:18.480 --> 01:09:20.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: The, the system does not allow for him
[01:09:23.960 --> 01:09:25.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: or justify his actions in any way.
[01:09:26.400 --> 01:09:29.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: It would just, he would just be made to disappear.
[01:09:29.820 --> 01:09:32.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's not going to help any side, no matter what you think.
[01:09:32.700 --> 01:09:36.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you think what he did was wrong or right, there is still no way for him to be tried by it.
[01:09:36.840 --> 01:09:41.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: It would just, it would just be a matter of him being made to go away.
[01:09:42.060 --> 01:09:50.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I think it's really actually clever of Clinton and her friends to focus the debate on if Snowden should be in jail or not.
[01:09:50.840 --> 01:10:02.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because we're not talking, I can guarantee, no one at this debate asked, should the head of the NSA be thrown in jail who committed far greater crimes than Snowden did under any reasonable standard.
[01:10:03.520 --> 01:10:07.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, you know, hats off to them for framing the debate as they have.
[01:10:07.420 --> 01:10:11.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I think, I think the other Bernie S would get there in time.
[01:10:11.480 --> 01:10:15.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: But no, he, it would be political suicide to suggest something like that at this point.
[01:10:15.620 --> 01:10:18.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I think, you know, the dialogue is being moved in a good direction.
[01:10:18.700 --> 01:10:18.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:10:19.380 --> 01:10:20.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, because of Snowden.
[01:10:21.100 --> 01:10:23.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, yes, but it's, it's slow moving.
[01:10:23.680 --> 01:10:23.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:10:24.380 --> 01:10:26.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: And as Mike said, framing is key.
[01:10:26.420 --> 01:10:35.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you have got to step back from the way the conversations are constructed and the venues and how and so on and so forth.
[01:10:35.660 --> 01:10:43.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, anyway, to continue spoiling, their conversation basically trailed off into who voted for the PATRIOT Act and when and where and all that.
[01:10:43.620 --> 01:10:44.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly, yeah.
[01:10:44.380 --> 01:10:45.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's basically the rest of it.
[01:10:45.820 --> 01:10:50.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, okay, so you guys didn't see the debate but you all watch Homeland at least, right?
[01:10:51.200 --> 01:10:51.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: What?
[01:10:51.820 --> 01:10:52.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: What is that?
[01:10:52.880 --> 01:10:53.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: What is that?
[01:10:53.380 --> 01:10:54.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a reality show.
[01:10:54.380 --> 01:10:54.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bernie?
[01:10:55.340 --> 01:10:56.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't watch it, no.
[01:10:58.900 --> 01:11:01.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: I need to, I need to hang out with cooler people.
[01:11:02.020 --> 01:11:07.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, Homeland is, is the series about You're just now realizing you're here.
[01:11:07.000 --> 01:11:08.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: About saving, saving America.
[01:11:08.720 --> 01:11:21.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of like 24 plus, you know, except it's on Showtime and it's about this ex-CIA agent who's always right and everybody else is always wrong and she's protecting America from those evil foreign terrorists.
[01:11:21.220 --> 01:11:22.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's basically it.
[01:11:22.280 --> 01:11:23.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's like more beards.
[01:11:23.500 --> 01:11:24.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: And she's insane too.
[01:11:24.560 --> 01:11:24.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:11:24.900 --> 01:11:26.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, at least she acts insane.
[01:11:26.660 --> 01:11:28.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's on Showtime so I presume there's nudity.
[01:11:28.660 --> 01:11:29.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is that the draw?
[01:11:30.180 --> 01:11:33.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, not as much as you might like but there's, there might be a little bit.
[01:11:33.840 --> 01:11:35.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's the first question you ask me.
[01:11:35.120 --> 01:11:35.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is there nudity?
[01:11:36.560 --> 01:11:38.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, you said it was on Showtime.
[01:11:38.340 --> 01:11:39.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: Talking about national security.
[01:11:39.560 --> 01:11:40.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, you're not.
[01:11:40.180 --> 01:11:42.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're talking about like fictionalized weird television.
[01:11:42.880 --> 01:11:44.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's see how fictionalized this is.
[01:11:45.100 --> 01:11:51.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: In this particular series now, it takes place in Berlin in Germany.
[01:11:52.280 --> 01:11:53.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's a real city.
[01:11:53.460 --> 01:11:54.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: I can't confirm that.
[01:11:54.440 --> 01:12:17.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: This computer hacker has broken into the CIA and gotten all of this information and has leaked it to a journalist named Laura who is now, who is now releasing that information in the form of various newspaper articles and has just been arrested illegally by the German authorities in question before being released by her lawyer.
[01:12:17.900 --> 01:12:19.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a cool story.
[01:12:19.220 --> 01:12:21.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: I can't believe her name is actually Laura.
[01:12:21.160 --> 01:12:31.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Of course, we're talking about Laura Poitras who made Citizen Four, lived in Berlin for some time and of course was the person who was contacted by Edward Snowden.
[01:12:32.440 --> 01:12:35.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're not very creative as far as writing original stories.
[01:12:35.680 --> 01:12:39.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's so much here that seems to be based on reality.
[01:12:39.200 --> 01:13:00.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Of course, it's very different in many ways but I think what they're obviously trying to do and if the previous way of doing things in this series is any indication, they're going to make her out to be somebody who is hopelessly naive as far as what freedom actually is and one day she will wish that the CIA was there to help save her because of all those evil people that she inadvertently helped
[01:13:00.520 --> 01:13:10.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: by releasing all of this information that was hacked by the hacker who by the way will meet an unfortunate end because he's got a beard and nobody really is attached to him emotionally.
[01:13:11.040 --> 01:13:17.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think Glenn Greenwald raised an excellent point on Twitter that I saw this morning about the debates last night.
[01:13:17.840 --> 01:13:21.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: People are accusing Snowden of having put American lives at risk.
[01:13:22.700 --> 01:13:26.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's no evidence for this but even just assuming for the moment that is true.
[01:13:27.320 --> 01:13:37.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: The people who voted for the Iraq war there's no question they put American American lives were definitely lost because of that and Snowden is the one they're accusing.
[01:13:38.140 --> 01:13:39.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's just it's nuts.
[01:13:39.680 --> 01:13:48.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's the way they spin the story and that's something we always are focusing on here both at this radio station and in the hacker world because we question authority.
[01:13:48.260 --> 01:13:51.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of what we do and we don't know how not to do it.
[01:13:51.880 --> 01:13:55.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, our phone number 212-209-2950 please call with your support.
[01:13:56.640 --> 01:13:58.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: We are doing a fundraising show tonight.
[01:13:58.760 --> 01:14:01.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're on for two hours only another 45 minutes.
[01:14:01.380 --> 01:14:11.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have some amazing things for you to question authority with including a way to shut the authorities up sometimes when they really start annoying you.
[01:14:12.340 --> 01:14:24.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's say you're let's okay here's my best example because I know it bothers people when you know you go behind them and turn off their television set and they're watching it.
[01:14:24.120 --> 01:14:25.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know that's annoying.
[01:14:25.320 --> 01:14:45.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: It gets old fast and even you know if people are in a bar and everybody's watching the same game you keep turning it off you're a bit of a jerk I know that but there are many situations where you're in a place like a restaurant or something like that and they for some reason decide it's a good idea to have a big TV set on sometimes even with sound that's just really distracting annoying and
[01:14:45.960 --> 01:14:59.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: uncivilized and you now have the ability the freedom to turn that thing off when you feel like it and I've done this many times in places like this And usually a couple of different things happen.
[01:14:59.900 --> 01:15:03.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: The best scenario is nobody notices and everybody just goes on about their lives.
[01:15:04.120 --> 01:15:10.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: The second scenario, much more likely, is that the restaurateur will notice, hey, the television set went off.
[01:15:10.740 --> 01:15:15.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: It will drop whatever he's doing to go over there to figure out what went wrong, turn it back on.
[01:15:15.740 --> 01:15:17.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Then he goes back to his duties.
[01:15:17.700 --> 01:15:18.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: You do it again.
[01:15:18.940 --> 01:15:24.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Once again, he forgets about his customers or anything else important and tries to figure out what's going on with the television set.
[01:15:25.000 --> 01:15:26.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Gets to work a second time.
[01:15:26.680 --> 01:15:29.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: But the third time when you turn it off, he gives up.
[01:15:29.620 --> 01:15:39.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: He gives up, stops going back, says he's going to deal with it later after the place closes, and people start conversing amongst each other, just like, well, of course, with the smartphones, you still have that problem.
[01:15:40.100 --> 01:15:43.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: For the most part, people stop watching the television set, at least.
[01:15:43.160 --> 01:15:45.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's a small victory.
[01:15:45.540 --> 01:15:47.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: So that's what the TV-B-Gone can get you.
[01:15:47.380 --> 01:15:49.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what you can get tonight for a pledge of $50.
[01:15:50.860 --> 01:15:51.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's also a lot of fun.
[01:15:52.000 --> 01:15:58.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: One of my favorite things to do with the TV-B-Gone is when I have to go out to, say, a big box retailer that has shelves and shelves of televisions.
[01:15:58.980 --> 01:16:05.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's fun to just walk past those, hit the button on the thing, and watch them all turn off at various times because they're all different brands.
[01:16:05.460 --> 01:16:08.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's just a really entertaining thing to do.
[01:16:08.260 --> 01:16:13.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's not in a fashion that hurts anybody or that causes anyone an actual loss.
[01:16:13.740 --> 01:16:15.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's just something that you don't have to do.
[01:16:15.160 --> 01:16:20.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it does cause... I mean, somebody got in trouble for that in Berlin, I remember, at one of the chaos congresses.
[01:16:20.980 --> 01:16:21.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:16:21.320 --> 01:16:23.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: But they were eventually acquitted.
[01:16:23.500 --> 01:16:26.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they... Because it's not actually damaging televisions to turn them off.
[01:16:26.740 --> 01:16:32.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: They tried to make it seem like, because it was a big television, they tried to make it seem like when you turn that off, you cause damage or something like that.
[01:16:32.680 --> 01:16:37.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: I remember at Circuit City once, turning a bunch of them off and causing all kinds of confusion.
[01:16:38.660 --> 01:16:44.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: That wasn't why they went out of business, but you would think it would have been because of how seriously they take things like this.
[01:16:44.500 --> 01:16:47.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: I guess they're selling the things, they want to make sure they stay on.
[01:16:48.860 --> 01:17:00.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: But it can be fun, it can be a public service, it can be a useful tool, and you can get yours tonight by calling 212-209-2950, pledging $50 and asking for the...
[01:17:01.200 --> 01:17:02.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: The TV-B-Gone.
[01:17:02.480 --> 01:17:03.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: TV-B-Gone.
[01:17:03.080 --> 01:17:08.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: They get mad at those stores because they have to go and find every single remote for every single different TV.
[01:17:08.540 --> 01:17:17.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: They don't have it all in one device in a nice, neat little table like this microcontroller TV-B-Gone device has access to.
[01:17:18.900 --> 01:17:22.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: They can't just press a button on the TV, they have to press a remote?
[01:17:22.820 --> 01:17:25.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they're all different TVs, presumably, right?
[01:17:25.340 --> 01:17:27.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they should have one of these.
[01:17:27.520 --> 01:17:37.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: If they were smart, they would call in and see what they could do about getting one of these TV-B-Gones, it would make turning them all on and off at the end and beginning of the day is easy.
[01:17:37.540 --> 01:17:48.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: So if you run a big TV showroom, you might want to consider getting a TV-B-Gone so that you can make it a TV-B-On, because again, as I said, once they're off, this button also will turn them on.
[01:17:48.320 --> 01:17:55.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: It goes through all the codes of every TV set and finds the one that's in front of you and either turns it on or off, whichever position it's not in.
[01:17:55.340 --> 01:18:01.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Some of the best televisions have separate codes, so you can't turn them on, and that makes me happy, but very few.
[01:18:01.220 --> 01:18:05.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: This also works on TVs that are being used to monitor surveillance cameras.
[01:18:05.340 --> 01:18:06.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's true as well.
[01:18:06.840 --> 01:18:10.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure how that will help people exactly, but it's good to know.
[01:18:10.760 --> 01:18:11.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bernie, yes?
[01:18:12.440 --> 01:18:14.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've got a good TV-B-Gone story a few weeks ago.
[01:18:15.360 --> 01:18:22.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Our friend Mitch Altman was visiting friends here in Philadelphia, and he was at an open-source hardware conference.
[01:18:22.340 --> 01:18:23.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's pretty interesting stuff.
[01:18:24.320 --> 01:18:38.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I drove him back to where he was staying, and we went past a big Planet Fitness exercise gym, and there was this huge line of big-screen TVs in front of all the treadmills that people were jogging on.
[01:18:38.740 --> 01:18:40.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: And Mitch said, oh, pull up here.
[01:18:40.360 --> 01:18:41.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just pull up.
[01:18:41.220 --> 01:18:42.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm like, so we did.
[01:18:42.260 --> 01:18:43.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: And he whiffed out his TV-B-Gone.
[01:18:44.120 --> 01:18:45.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: And he got about...
[01:18:46.320 --> 01:18:49.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: We must have turned off at least a dozen of them right through the windows.
[01:18:49.260 --> 01:18:52.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: We were probably at least 50, 60 feet away from these TVs.
[01:18:53.240 --> 01:19:00.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: And through the windows, we were out in the street, just parked in a parking spot, and he was just zapping all the TVs, turning them off.
[01:19:00.660 --> 01:19:03.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Some people stopped jogging on their treadmills, oddly.
[01:19:04.080 --> 01:19:06.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, the TV goes off and you can stop jogging.
[01:19:06.740 --> 01:19:07.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Very strange.
[01:19:07.580 --> 01:19:09.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: But anyhow, he got almost all of them.
[01:19:09.920 --> 01:19:12.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: He is very skilled at this because he designed the thing.
[01:19:12.800 --> 01:19:15.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: And these are the last of the TV-B-Gones.
[01:19:15.420 --> 01:19:17.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: You will not be able to purchase one soon.
[01:19:17.080 --> 01:19:18.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: He stopped making them.
[01:19:18.200 --> 01:19:27.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: So if you want one of these things that Mitch has donated to us very generously, call it 212-209-2950 for a $75 pledge.
[01:19:27.800 --> 01:19:29.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can get a TV-B-Gone also.
[01:19:29.560 --> 01:19:33.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or a Trippy RGB Waves kit for $75.
[01:19:34.020 --> 01:19:37.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you want them both, pledge.
[01:19:37.300 --> 01:19:38.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: What is it?
[01:19:39.260 --> 01:19:43.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think the Trippy RGB Waves kit is also a pledge of $50.
[01:19:43.800 --> 01:19:47.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you want both, the Control Your Environment package is $75.
[01:19:48.760 --> 01:19:49.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a great deal.
[01:19:50.040 --> 01:19:51.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's an amazing deal.
[01:19:51.120 --> 01:19:51.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: It is.
[01:19:51.640 --> 01:19:52.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: 212-209-2950.
[01:19:53.580 --> 01:19:57.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the real power of a TV-B-Gone is starting that conversation.
[01:19:57.800 --> 01:20:00.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because if you're in an environment where everyone just...
[01:20:00.420 --> 01:20:02.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: The TV is accepted background noise.
[01:20:02.360 --> 01:20:07.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's an accepted part of the physical and mental environment that everyone shares.
[01:20:07.740 --> 01:20:10.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's really interesting to see what happens when you switch that off.
[01:20:10.720 --> 01:20:12.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because people don't expect that.
[01:20:12.460 --> 01:20:14.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: People aren't quite sure what to do when that happens.
[01:20:15.100 --> 01:20:17.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you wouldn't think, you know, okay, the TV's been switched off.
[01:20:17.900 --> 01:20:19.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's going to really upset people to any degree.
[01:20:19.840 --> 01:20:24.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: Or really mess with what everyone is doing with themselves at that point.
[01:20:24.740 --> 01:20:26.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: But it really does shake people up.
[01:20:27.000 --> 01:20:30.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it makes people re-examine the place that TV has in all our lives.
[01:20:30.300 --> 01:20:33.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's a discussion that Mitch was trying to start when he made the TV-B-Gone.
[01:20:34.400 --> 01:20:37.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's a discussion that's been going on for a while now.
[01:20:37.220 --> 01:20:40.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's a discussion that you can be part of making happen with this gadget.
[01:20:40.820 --> 01:20:41.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: With the TV-B-Gone.
[01:20:41.740 --> 01:20:44.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: Which you can get hold of for just a pledge of $50.
[01:20:45.140 --> 01:20:46.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: 212-209-2950.
[01:20:47.000 --> 01:20:48.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: Or give2wbai.org.
[01:20:49.840 --> 01:20:51.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: The police are coming.
[01:20:51.100 --> 01:20:51.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: I hear them.
[01:20:52.160 --> 01:20:52.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[01:20:52.800 --> 01:20:54.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think they heard me turn the TV off.
[01:20:54.600 --> 01:20:57.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think you guys might have to hide me.
[01:20:57.440 --> 01:20:57.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:20:58.540 --> 01:21:00.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we're living on the edge here at WBAI.
[01:21:00.800 --> 01:21:03.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, again, 212-209-2950.
[01:21:04.180 --> 01:21:07.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, you can write to us, too, if you have comments on anything that we've said tonight.
[01:21:08.020 --> 01:21:09.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'd love to hear from our listeners.
[01:21:09.400 --> 01:21:14.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, we're going to go into a section where we hear some listener letters and maybe some phone calls in a little bit.
[01:21:15.680 --> 01:21:18.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: oth@2600.com is our telephone number.
[01:21:18.900 --> 01:21:24.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we're always happy to hear what listeners have to say.
[01:21:24.260 --> 01:21:26.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not everybody's happy to hear what you have to say.
[01:21:26.900 --> 01:21:27.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know that, right?
[01:21:28.040 --> 01:21:30.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: People sometimes react the wrong way.
[01:21:30.600 --> 01:21:33.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes they don't really want feedback of any sort.
[01:21:33.960 --> 01:21:41.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you contact the CEO of AT&T, you may very well hear back from that CEO's lawyer.
[01:21:42.280 --> 01:21:42.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[01:21:42.920 --> 01:21:48.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, AT&T's code of business conduct declares that our customers should always know we value them and that we listen to our customers.
[01:21:48.940 --> 01:22:04.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: But according to this article from David Lazarus of the LA Times, you might want to think twice before offering suggestions to the company's chief executive, whose name is Randall Stevenson, about how AT&T can improve its Internet and wireless services.
[01:22:04.400 --> 01:22:14.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: It says, El Sereno resident Alfred Valerie found himself in the crosshairs of a top AT&T lawyer after recently emailing Stevenson with two simple ideas for improving customer satisfaction.
[01:22:15.020 --> 01:22:22.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Those two ideas were unlimited data for DSL users and a thousand text messages for $10 a month.
[01:22:23.020 --> 01:22:24.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is actually what he wrote.
[01:22:24.780 --> 01:22:27.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you have to be fair with these stories.
[01:22:27.520 --> 01:22:33.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have to basically present what was actually said so you can see why it got this kind of a reaction in the first place.
[01:22:33.700 --> 01:22:35.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to be too unfair here.
[01:22:36.140 --> 01:22:39.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: So giving AT&T their time.
[01:22:39.320 --> 01:22:45.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's good to give the listeners the information they need to reach their own judgment about this tense situation.
[01:22:45.440 --> 01:22:52.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: So this is what this guy had the audacity to go online and write to the CEO of AT&T.
[01:22:52.720 --> 01:22:55.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi, I have two suggestions.
[01:22:55.760 --> 01:22:58.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Please do not contact me in regards to these.
[01:22:59.260 --> 01:23:00.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: These are suggestions.
[01:23:01.100 --> 01:23:06.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: Allow unlimited data for DSL customers, particularly those in neighborhoods not serviced by U-verse.
[01:23:06.860 --> 01:23:14.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bring back text messaging plans like 1,000 messages for $10 or create a new plan like 500 messages for $7.
[01:23:14.960 --> 01:23:17.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Your lifelong customer, Alfred Valry.
[01:23:19.700 --> 01:23:21.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, the nerve of that guy.
[01:23:22.240 --> 01:23:23.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, I can't believe...
[01:23:23.100 --> 01:23:24.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: Can we even read that stuff on the air?
[01:23:24.620 --> 01:23:25.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I just did.
[01:23:25.460 --> 01:23:27.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: I wonder now if that was a good idea.
[01:23:27.280 --> 01:23:29.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, Emmanuel, I have to disagree with you here.
[01:23:29.560 --> 01:23:31.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think this is a perfectly acceptable email.
[01:23:31.760 --> 01:23:33.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's exactly the kind of thing I would expect you to say.
[01:23:34.060 --> 01:23:34.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:23:35.280 --> 01:23:41.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: But predictably, the CEO was outraged to hear these suggestions being sent to his email.
[01:23:41.060 --> 01:24:00.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: And what happened was that he received a letter from AT&T's legal department saying, AT&T has a policy of not entertaining unsolicited offers to adopt, analyze, develop, license, or purchase third-party intellectual property from members of the general public.
[01:24:00.420 --> 01:24:03.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Therefore, we respectfully decline to consider your suggestion.
[01:24:07.160 --> 01:24:09.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: They won't even consider the suggestion.
[01:24:10.760 --> 01:24:11.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, here's the thing.
[01:24:12.100 --> 01:24:19.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: According to Georgia Taylor, who's a company spokeswoman, and in this article, you're expecting it to end with, oh, we had no idea.
[01:24:19.680 --> 01:24:23.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: We didn't know that they were sent out by mistake, et cetera, et cetera.
[01:24:23.620 --> 01:24:24.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're so sorry.
[01:24:24.580 --> 01:24:26.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, that's not what AT&T is about.
[01:24:26.740 --> 01:24:29.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: AT&T stands by what it says and what it does.
[01:24:29.500 --> 01:24:36.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: And she says, in the past, we've had customers send us unsolicited ideas and then later threaten to take legal action, claiming we stole their ideas.
[01:24:36.840 --> 01:24:40.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's why our responses have been a bit formal and legalistic.
[01:24:40.260 --> 01:24:42.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's so we can protect ourselves.
[01:24:42.600 --> 01:24:50.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, friends, when AT&T seems, you know, a bit hostile or intimidating to you, it's because they're afraid.
[01:24:50.080 --> 01:24:55.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's because they are trying to protect themselves against your ideas that are a big threat to them.
[01:24:55.920 --> 01:24:57.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, show a little mercy.
[01:24:57.600 --> 01:24:59.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: I almost feel bad for what's...
[01:24:59.820 --> 01:25:00.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: You should feel bad.
[01:25:00.420 --> 01:25:06.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's the PR person's name who has to write this Georgia something, who has to write this nonsense and pretend to believe it.
[01:25:07.740 --> 01:25:12.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, now you're getting inside Georgia's head and saying that she doesn't believe the things that...
[01:25:12.540 --> 01:25:16.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're not going to hear from Georgia's attorney, who probably is the same attorney, but might be a different one.
[01:25:16.840 --> 01:25:17.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, well...
[01:25:17.300 --> 01:25:20.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: She's in the legal department, so I'm not sure if she needs an attorney.
[01:25:20.640 --> 01:25:22.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a risk I might have to take.
[01:25:22.240 --> 01:25:24.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: But anyway, that's what corporate America does.
[01:25:24.640 --> 01:25:28.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what you can expect when you suggest things to other companies, but not to us.
[01:25:28.100 --> 01:25:49.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it's a form response and that there's a slight possibility they still looked at the suggestion, at least in part, or pieces of it, or considered it hypothetically, but for whatever reason, they've got their loyalties to their current plan and so on with whatever it is,
[01:25:49.360 --> 01:25:52.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: SMS packages was one of the things he suggested and so on.
[01:25:52.100 --> 01:26:00.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's entirely possible that they read it, but then sent this as sort of a preventative...
[01:26:03.440 --> 01:26:12.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: something that would allow them to accept the suggestion, but cover them, like, legally.
[01:26:12.240 --> 01:26:26.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: It seems like an overreaction, but in case it's an attempt to sort of extort them through some sort of legal entanglement with an idea...
[01:26:26.960 --> 01:26:27.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I don't understand.
[01:26:27.620 --> 01:26:29.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: What legal entanglement are they worried about?
[01:26:30.320 --> 01:26:34.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Intellectual property is a big deal, and it's a big deal for this company, right?
[01:26:34.440 --> 01:26:47.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: So they're extremely sensitive to it, to their ideas and what is created internally and how they interact with the public.
[01:26:47.940 --> 01:26:50.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: They definitely want their customers to stay customers.
[01:26:50.720 --> 01:26:57.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, like, this kind of suggestion, I think, is something they would...
[01:26:57.120 --> 01:26:59.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's sort of a pat on the head, in other words.
[01:26:59.420 --> 01:27:01.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, basically, like, yeah, why don't you apply for a job?
[01:27:01.660 --> 01:27:13.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: But even so, like, I personally have worked at, you know, a few different places, some large, large concerns and some smaller ones, but every one of them pretty much wanted to hear from their customers what they thought of the service.
[01:27:14.160 --> 01:27:29.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, maybe they weren't going to adopt every idea that was thrown at them, and nobody should, but there was a general sense of them at least being interested in what their customers had to say, especially if, like, in the case with this fella, it was a lifelong happy customer.
[01:27:30.340 --> 01:27:38.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: Those are the people you want to hear from if you're in a trade, if you're providing a service, if you're doing something that depends on your clients being happy with what you're doing.
[01:27:38.860 --> 01:27:44.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: So to just bite his head off like this and threaten to stick the lawyers on him is kind of nuts.
[01:27:45.180 --> 01:27:53.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's certainly a cold reading of his good faith suggestion, and quite cynical reading of it.
[01:27:53.580 --> 01:28:06.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, anyway, rs2982 at att.com if you have a suggestion for Mr. Stevenson, the CEO of AT&T.
[01:28:06.080 --> 01:28:07.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: You just gave out his email address on the air?
[01:28:07.920 --> 01:28:08.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:28:08.480 --> 01:28:09.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my God.
[01:28:09.260 --> 01:28:11.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now people know who not to email with their suggestions.
[01:28:12.120 --> 01:28:18.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, he doesn't want them, but if you have a suggestion for AT&T, I guess our advice should be don't send them to that email address.
[01:28:18.680 --> 01:28:18.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, wait.
[01:28:19.060 --> 01:28:20.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: They could use a lot of suggestions, actually.
[01:28:20.740 --> 01:28:21.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hold on.
[01:28:21.300 --> 01:28:21.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, wait a sec.
[01:28:22.060 --> 01:28:22.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: I wish you had told me about that.
[01:28:22.860 --> 01:28:23.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:28:23.100 --> 01:28:25.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Can you just say that one more time, that email address?
[01:28:25.840 --> 01:28:26.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just to be clear.
[01:28:26.700 --> 01:28:26.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Carefully.
[01:28:26.980 --> 01:28:28.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: The email address, do not send your suggestions to...
[01:28:28.940 --> 01:28:29.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, no.
[01:28:29.140 --> 01:28:29.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Just say that.
[01:28:29.820 --> 01:28:31.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't give them suggestions, but yeah.
[01:28:32.780 --> 01:28:34.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: rs2982 at att.com.
[01:28:34.980 --> 01:28:35.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:28:35.940 --> 01:28:44.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you find yourself writing email to that address, please separate yourself from us so that it doesn't seem as if we are the ones who got you to write the email.
[01:28:45.080 --> 01:28:48.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: So if you were writing a letter to this guy, again, the address?
[01:28:50.020 --> 01:28:51.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: rs2982 at att.com.
[01:28:52.080 --> 01:28:59.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Check your out folders, whatever, you know, or scan the Internet and see if that address shows up in anything you're interested in.
[01:28:59.500 --> 01:29:03.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: And if you're writing an email, just make sure that you don't say our names.
[01:29:03.940 --> 01:29:04.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Fair enough?
[01:29:04.800 --> 01:29:05.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bernie, how about you?
[01:29:06.000 --> 01:29:06.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[01:29:06.240 --> 01:29:21.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I already wrote a suggestion to the CEO of AT&T saying that, suggesting that they not lash out at customers for submitting intellectual property when they haven't done so anyway.
[01:29:21.540 --> 01:29:24.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: There was nothing in this guy's suggestions that constitute intellectual property.
[01:29:24.900 --> 01:29:32.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: He was just suggesting, you know, unlimited data for DSL customers or offer a thousand text messages for $10.
[01:29:33.040 --> 01:29:35.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, that is not intellectual property.
[01:29:35.360 --> 01:29:39.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: No court in the land would rule, oh, that's protected intellectual property.
[01:29:39.480 --> 01:29:41.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I think AT&T was way off base.
[01:29:41.820 --> 01:29:50.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: There's no method described or technique or something proprietary new and something that has not been established before.
[01:29:50.520 --> 01:29:53.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: New work is not created there.
[01:29:53.560 --> 01:29:58.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a new way of them maybe reconfiguring their work, the work that they do.
[01:29:59.480 --> 01:30:03.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: But it's in vague terms at the most.
[01:30:03.720 --> 01:30:10.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I mean, I think we can clearly establish this by, you know, if the lawyer was asked, you know, what intellectual property in question?
[01:30:10.680 --> 01:30:12.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Intellectual property is not a legal term.
[01:30:12.840 --> 01:30:15.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have either patent law or trademark law or copyright law.
[01:30:15.900 --> 01:30:22.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you ask the lawyer, like, which of those three do you think you might get in trouble for here if you hadn't sent this email?
[01:30:22.720 --> 01:30:31.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's no way he could possibly answer because none of these suggestions are patentable, trademarkable, or copyrightable, obviously, even to a non-lawyer like me.
[01:30:32.640 --> 01:30:41.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: But they invented this vague umbrella term, intellectual property, so that you have to think about it just for half a second to realize it doesn't qualify.
[01:30:41.480 --> 01:30:48.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: They even have, I think the parent company is kind of kin to this large search engine changing their name.
[01:30:48.880 --> 01:30:51.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think there's an AT&T intellectual property.
[01:30:51.160 --> 01:30:54.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've seen it on some of their, um, handsets and packaging materials.
[01:30:54.800 --> 01:31:02.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, AT&T, this is what you get when you do something like this, us talking about it for 20 minutes, and probably a lot of other people talking about it as well.
[01:31:02.440 --> 01:31:06.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, corporations of America should, uh, do well to, uh, to pay attention to this.
[01:31:06.900 --> 01:31:10.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Can you imagine what would happen if we had sponsors and AT&T was one of our sponsors?
[01:31:10.980 --> 01:31:14.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, they wouldn't be one of our sponsors after, after tonight's show, that's for sure.
[01:31:14.220 --> 01:31:21.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think any company would be because they never know what we're going to say and, uh, uh, how, uh, how we'll unleash against them.
[01:31:22.840 --> 01:31:29.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they should patent being a big fat copper pig sitting on everyone's access to information.
[01:31:29.300 --> 01:31:34.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's one way of, that's actually, you know, that could be an advertising campaign right there.
[01:31:34.700 --> 01:31:35.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[01:31:35.420 --> 01:31:38.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, we mentioned the email address because we do want to hear from you.
[01:31:38.240 --> 01:31:53.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, in addition to calling our fundraising line and pledging right now, 212-209-2950, we also value your, your cards and letters and emails and, and whatever else you feel like sending us, uh, oth@2600.com is our email address.
[01:31:53.540 --> 01:32:01.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, here's a letter from our friend Pyro who was responding to, um, uh, one of the things Kyle and I were talking about from Maker Faire with the, uh, Segways that didn't have the handles.
[01:32:01.960 --> 01:32:03.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're called hoverboards.
[01:32:03.280 --> 01:32:06.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: You steer them like a skateboard by shifting your weight from left to right.
[01:32:06.480 --> 01:32:10.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: And like a Segway, you lean forward to go forward and back to go back.
[01:32:10.700 --> 01:32:13.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Only problem is because you have nothing to hold on to when you step on them.
[01:32:13.960 --> 01:32:14.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: They take off on you.
[01:32:15.060 --> 01:32:18.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: You basically have to be very, you have to have very good balance.
[01:32:18.160 --> 01:32:19.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Otherwise you will break your neck.
[01:32:20.660 --> 01:32:23.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, yeah, I don't know if I can ever get one of those things.
[01:32:23.540 --> 01:32:24.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: It just seems kind of scary just to look at.
[01:32:26.100 --> 01:32:29.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: I, I, I just take issue with them being called hoverboards because they're not hovering.
[01:32:30.040 --> 01:32:30.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:32:30.420 --> 01:32:31.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm with you on that, Rob.
[01:32:31.600 --> 01:32:31.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:32:31.800 --> 01:32:32.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're not hovering.
[01:32:32.420 --> 01:32:32.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Are they?
[01:32:33.060 --> 01:32:37.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: And also I think it's akin to any kind of like traditional skateboard.
[01:32:37.240 --> 01:32:42.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: They tend to kind of go out from under you if you're not careful, if you don't step directly on top of it.
[01:32:42.160 --> 01:32:43.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know.
[01:32:43.280 --> 01:32:43.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll have to try it.
[01:32:43.960 --> 01:32:51.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll have to get some experimenting, see if, uh, there are certain techniques if the, to avoid the, but these ones have a motor, so they go faster.
[01:32:52.240 --> 01:32:52.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[01:32:52.780 --> 01:32:52.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:32:53.160 --> 01:32:57.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: So they, when they step out from under you, true, all kinds of things can happen.
[01:32:57.380 --> 01:32:59.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't be jumping on one very quickly.
[01:32:59.500 --> 01:33:04.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd have to spend some time, uh, evaluating it maybe on one of those, uh, rubber tracks.
[01:33:05.120 --> 01:33:05.120]  Yeah.
[01:33:05.140 --> 01:33:06.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: You won't see those soon at hope.
[01:33:06.420 --> 01:33:09.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think, I think we're going to stick to the regular Segway.
[01:33:09.180 --> 01:33:10.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is where the traditional fun can be had.
[01:33:11.120 --> 01:33:12.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, here's another letter from Jeff.
[01:33:12.800 --> 01:33:13.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi there.
[01:33:13.060 --> 01:33:16.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just wanted to relate a quick story about rotary phones.
[01:33:16.700 --> 01:33:21.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm 32 by all rights should have never come into contact with a working rotary phone.
[01:33:21.680 --> 01:33:22.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sounds like maybe you did.
[01:33:22.620 --> 01:33:23.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry to hear about that.
[01:33:24.420 --> 01:33:30.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: But my, my grandparents didn't move on to touchstone phones until sometime in the early nineties.
[01:33:31.020 --> 01:33:34.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I spent a good amount of time early in my life dialing a rotary.
[01:33:35.520 --> 01:33:39.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: The, uh, funnier thing is that the line was still set up to recognize a rotary dial.
[01:33:40.340 --> 01:33:49.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: And for a good year or so, until someone noticed a switch on the phone's base, each press of the button was followed by a corresponding number of pulses, saving no time whatsoever.
[01:33:49.720 --> 01:33:50.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, Jeff, that's interesting.
[01:33:51.120 --> 01:33:56.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, it sounds like what you had there was a phone that said, it was a touchstone phone that had a rotary switch.
[01:33:56.580 --> 01:34:13.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: So when you press the button, it would dial the number that those were useful in situations where phone companies were greedy and charge people extra for using touchstones and were able to use sophisticated, uh, circuitry to disable touchstones so that they didn't cut the dial tone of the phone company.
[01:34:14.300 --> 01:34:24.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, that has gone away for the most part, but, um, it's, it's, you'll find that phone lines today still are able to recognize rotary, uh, pulses.
[01:34:24.520 --> 01:34:25.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: They, they are designed that way.
[01:34:26.080 --> 01:34:34.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: And in fact, we even met a couple of people at Maker Faire that, um, are involved in making those work on VoIP, making rotary pulses work on VoIP connections.
[01:34:34.920 --> 01:34:35.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:34:35.080 --> 01:34:39.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can do that with an analog telephone, uh, adapter or interface.
[01:34:39.740 --> 01:34:42.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's, um, it's pretty interesting.
[01:34:42.020 --> 01:34:48.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can even use partially the landline for maybe local calls and then have it switch automatically for long distance stuff.
[01:34:48.780 --> 01:35:01.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Also, if you're fortunate enough to still have an actual landline and not, not like a cable, uh, modem phone or something like that, but an actual old fashioned landline, um, still connected to your house, you can still use pulse dialing, even without a pulse,
[01:35:01.980 --> 01:35:04.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: uh, even without a rotary or pulse compatible phone.
[01:35:04.400 --> 01:35:12.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you just flick the switch hook really quickly for each number, um, one, one flick for one, two for two and right up to 10 flicks for zero.
[01:35:12.860 --> 01:35:18.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, if you get the timing, right, you can dial your numbers without ever touching the, uh, the, the keypad.
[01:35:18.700 --> 01:35:20.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that does sound fun.
[01:35:20.640 --> 01:35:20.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:35:20.940 --> 01:35:22.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: I thought it was fun back in the day.
[01:35:22.120 --> 01:35:23.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: It sounds like somebody doesn't know how to do it.
[01:35:23.660 --> 01:35:24.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what it sounds like to me.
[01:35:25.160 --> 01:35:25.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:35:25.660 --> 01:35:25.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:35:25.880 --> 01:35:29.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: I learned that as a kid and I was very proud of myself figuring out that, uh, You know what's fun?
[01:35:29.260 --> 01:35:32.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Dialing 10 zeros got you an operator or 10, 10 pulses got an operator.
[01:35:32.800 --> 01:35:33.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know what's fun?
[01:35:33.280 --> 01:35:36.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Typing in someone's name and then clicking on it and then you talk to them.
[01:35:36.400 --> 01:35:38.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you're easily amused then if that's fun to you.
[01:35:38.460 --> 01:35:38.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:35:39.220 --> 01:35:40.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, uh, what's that, Bernie?
[01:35:40.940 --> 01:35:41.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: Go ahead.
[01:35:48.700 --> 01:35:54.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: People walk on the dial and only the teacher, only the teacher had the key to, but I, I knew the trick.
[01:35:54.660 --> 01:36:00.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I was, you know, dialing companies and friends and stuff from, from the classroom phones and people walking.
[01:36:00.940 --> 01:36:02.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: How are you talking on that phone?
[01:36:02.380 --> 01:36:03.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: How did you call anybody?
[01:36:03.940 --> 01:36:06.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, those are the kind of tricks that don't really come in that handy anymore.
[01:36:07.120 --> 01:36:07.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:36:07.220 --> 01:36:09.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: You say only your teacher had the key.
[01:36:09.280 --> 01:36:14.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: In my case, my teacher didn't have the key and I was the one to show her how to bypass that lock.
[01:36:14.820 --> 01:36:19.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I, I became a much more popular in, in, in her eyes as a result of that.
[01:36:19.900 --> 01:36:26.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, Hey, do you want to try, uh, doing our magical trick of taking phone calls when we have no phone lines here at the radio station?
[01:36:26.260 --> 01:36:26.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[01:36:26.660 --> 01:36:26.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[01:36:26.920 --> 01:36:28.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's, let's try this again.
[01:36:29.500 --> 01:36:37.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I folks, I have to, I have to caution you, um, uh, turn down your radio, uh, try to speak loudly as loudly as you can.
[01:36:37.640 --> 01:36:39.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: And even then it's not going to be good enough.
[01:36:39.500 --> 01:36:40.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to have problems.
[01:36:40.440 --> 01:36:45.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to have difficulty hearing you and it might sound a little awkward on the air, but keep in mind we have no phone here.
[01:36:46.320 --> 01:36:49.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, although you were investigating something, Kyle, did you find a wire in the back?
[01:36:50.040 --> 01:36:50.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[01:36:50.600 --> 01:37:03.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: There looks to be a, uh, telephone wire, a bundle of many wires that, uh, would connect into a keyed telephone system, which I believe is the same.
[01:37:03.660 --> 01:37:10.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, well, our old phone system at WBAI had a similar, um, keyed phone, um, plug in the back.
[01:37:10.800 --> 01:37:12.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: So it had a lot of phone lines.
[01:37:12.560 --> 01:37:15.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: So this might actually be compatible with the old WBAI phone.
[01:37:15.440 --> 01:37:16.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Where does this wire go?
[01:37:16.880 --> 01:37:17.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: That is a good question.
[01:37:18.140 --> 01:37:23.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: I believe it goes somewhere where there, there's all kinds of action and we can follow it right now.
[01:37:23.300 --> 01:37:24.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's on the floor right behind me.
[01:37:24.860 --> 01:37:25.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[01:37:25.400 --> 01:37:29.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's the, um, the end of it, but, uh, that would go into the handset.
[01:37:30.000 --> 01:37:31.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: And is that just lying, not connected to anything?
[01:37:32.160 --> 01:37:36.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's lying unconnected behind you, but it goes up through the ceiling and into the abyss.
[01:37:36.200 --> 01:37:39.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: So one can only hope that that is, uh, progress.
[01:37:39.520 --> 01:37:44.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: It must be something because just having a big wire like that lying from the ceiling, uh, would be unusual.
[01:37:44.640 --> 01:37:45.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, okay.
[01:37:45.560 --> 01:37:46.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe our phone system is coming.
[01:37:46.760 --> 01:37:48.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to make it an encouraging sign.
[01:37:48.640 --> 01:37:48.640]  Yeah.
[01:37:48.660 --> 01:37:50.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're optimistic here at Off The Hook.
[01:37:50.080 --> 01:37:50.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: We try.
[01:37:50.700 --> 01:37:51.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have to be.
[01:37:51.460 --> 01:37:51.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[01:37:51.920 --> 01:37:59.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: So our phone number, uh, for you to call is the unusual area code of 331 and then the phone number of 223-WBAI.
[01:37:59.820 --> 01:38:02.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's 331-223-9224.
[01:38:02.680 --> 01:38:07.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, again, we're using Google Voice and sometimes it doesn't work properly.
[01:38:07.240 --> 01:38:11.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Last time it forwarded everybody to voicemail and we got 50 voicemails inside of a minute.
[01:38:11.400 --> 01:38:15.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: It was great to see how many listeners we had, how many people wanted to, um, uh, talk to us.
[01:38:16.120 --> 01:38:20.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, but, um, yeah, it, uh, sometimes it doesn't actually go through.
[01:38:21.000 --> 01:38:23.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, if it goes through in this, oh, it's coming through right now.
[01:38:23.340 --> 01:38:28.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have, we have somebody who has blocked their caller ID and now we're going to try and take this call and see if we can hear them.
[01:38:28.800 --> 01:38:29.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello, caller.
[01:38:29.560 --> 01:38:30.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Are you on the phone?
[01:38:31.900 --> 01:38:32.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, I am.
[01:38:33.100 --> 01:38:33.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, I hear them.
[01:38:34.160 --> 01:38:34.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Can you hear me?
[01:38:35.140 --> 01:38:35.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously you can.
[01:38:35.780 --> 01:38:36.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, I can hear you.
[01:38:36.560 --> 01:38:36.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Great.
[01:38:37.020 --> 01:38:37.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:38:37.260 --> 01:38:39.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: I only hear you through my left ear, but you know what?
[01:38:39.200 --> 01:38:40.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: I've got two ears.
[01:38:40.200 --> 01:38:40.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to be greedy.
[01:38:41.200 --> 01:38:41.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: Me too.
[01:38:41.680 --> 01:38:41.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:38:41.920 --> 01:38:42.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Where are you calling from?
[01:38:43.920 --> 01:38:46.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, I'm calling from Hoboken, New Jersey.
[01:38:46.980 --> 01:38:47.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:38:47.600 --> 01:38:47.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:38:48.460 --> 01:38:50.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, uh, what's on your mind today?
[01:38:50.940 --> 01:38:52.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry about the call waiting tones.
[01:38:52.700 --> 01:38:54.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: I forgot to turn the thing off.
[01:38:54.680 --> 01:38:55.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Go ahead.
[01:38:55.480 --> 01:38:55.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[01:38:56.380 --> 01:39:13.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Last night I got up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom and I flipped on the radio and I heard the most amazing thing that I'm going to tell you just, you know, the very simplistic version of it, but it was very detailed and it, I really had to stretch my imagination.
[01:39:14.840 --> 01:39:22.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: There was an interview, um, where this guy was talking about in the very near future and it's going to sneak up on us.
[01:39:22.760 --> 01:39:24.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Comes very quickly.
[01:39:24.740 --> 01:39:31.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: 3D printing is going to be something that everyone will have, just as we have computers now.
[01:39:31.620 --> 01:39:41.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it literally is going to put manufacturing out of business because everyone is going to be printing everything.
[01:39:41.420 --> 01:39:50.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: And he got into such detail about this to the point where the interviewer asked him like, you know, what kinds of things?
[01:39:51.020 --> 01:39:56.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: He said, well, you know, of course, unfortunately, guns, a chair, a car.
[01:39:57.380 --> 01:40:00.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: He said, all items.
[01:40:01.980 --> 01:40:03.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: You sure you just didn't have the radio on?
[01:40:03.780 --> 01:40:05.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because it sounds like one of our shows.
[01:40:07.380 --> 01:40:08.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wait, wait, wait.
[01:40:09.220 --> 01:40:10.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: What do you think?
[01:40:10.400 --> 01:40:10.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: You have you?
[01:40:11.040 --> 01:40:12.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: I've never heard that on your show.
[01:40:12.640 --> 01:40:13.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Like all items.
[01:40:13.800 --> 01:40:14.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Have you discussed that?
[01:40:15.360 --> 01:40:20.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, uh, it sounds like something that's not beyond the realm of conversation.
[01:40:20.700 --> 01:40:20.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[01:40:20.940 --> 01:40:21.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: What do you, what do you think, Rob?
[01:40:21.860 --> 01:40:24.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I, I do have a lot of experience in 3D printing.
[01:40:24.600 --> 01:40:35.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: I worked in it for many years and 3D printing right now is at an exciting stage because it's where computers were maybe back in the eighties where like, if you're a certain kind of geek, you can get a whole lot out of them right now.
[01:40:35.620 --> 01:40:41.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, uh, the tech still has a way to go before you can just, uh, have it as an appliance that any old person could use.
[01:40:42.260 --> 01:40:56.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, but, uh, but there are exciting things on the horizon and it's definitely worth keeping an eye on, not only for scientific reasons and, and, uh, like what it'll do to manufacturing on the whole, but it, uh, it does empower people to, it will empower people.
[01:40:56.220 --> 01:40:59.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: I, I believe to, to do things that they maybe couldn't have done before.
[01:40:59.440 --> 01:41:01.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: And there, there is value to it.
[01:41:01.960 --> 01:41:03.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: If I could just say one more thing.
[01:41:03.620 --> 01:41:13.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, he compared it to music, how music became free, you know, through the Internet where it just kind of sneaked up on us.
[01:41:14.060 --> 01:41:15.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: We didn't know that was going to happen.
[01:41:15.780 --> 01:41:22.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and he said, that's the way it's going to be with everybody printing their own stuff, like everything.
[01:41:22.840 --> 01:41:28.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: So anyway, that just fascinated me, but I'll just say that it was around, it was a very detailed conversation.
[01:41:28.920 --> 01:41:31.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm giving you the very simple, you know, parts of it.
[01:41:32.020 --> 01:41:38.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, but it was on just after four, because when I went back to bed, I looked up and it was either WBAI or NPR.
[01:41:38.580 --> 01:41:41.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not sure it was one of those, but it was really fascinating guys.
[01:41:42.020 --> 01:41:42.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[01:41:42.540 --> 01:41:43.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'll move on.
[01:41:43.220 --> 01:41:43.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you so much.
[01:41:44.100 --> 01:41:44.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
[01:41:44.580 --> 01:41:45.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, thanks for that call.
[01:41:47.200 --> 01:41:50.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's, uh, I've seen people do some amazing stuff with that.
[01:41:50.940 --> 01:41:58.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's, it is really exciting technology and it's, um, going into other, other realms too, like, uh, with biology and stuff like that.
[01:41:58.440 --> 01:42:07.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've, I've, I've actually got friends that have, um, taken dental images and printed out their entire skull from, uh, maxo facial, uh, x-ray.
[01:42:07.820 --> 01:42:21.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Also, I had a friend that was going in for reconstructive heart surgery or to get a stint installed and she was able to print out a copy of her, um, artery to give to the, uh, surgeon the night before.
[01:42:21.460 --> 01:42:24.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: So he was able to get an idea of what he was going to be operating on the next day.
[01:42:24.860 --> 01:42:28.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's really, really amazing, um, technology.
[01:42:28.520 --> 01:42:28.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:42:28.940 --> 01:42:30.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have another phone call from New Jersey.
[01:42:30.720 --> 01:42:30.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello.
[01:42:30.980 --> 01:42:31.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Are you on the air?
[01:42:32.520 --> 01:42:32.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[01:42:32.980 --> 01:42:33.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hello.
[01:42:33.500 --> 01:42:33.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hi.
[01:42:33.680 --> 01:42:34.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: What's on your mind?
[01:42:34.160 --> 01:42:34.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good show, guys.
[01:42:34.840 --> 01:42:35.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[01:42:35.520 --> 01:42:36.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, it's kind of amazing.
[01:42:37.180 --> 01:42:45.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, I'm Eric and I'm also from Hoboken and I just wanted to call cause I liked your conversation about the, uh, rotary phone.
[01:42:45.660 --> 01:42:47.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: I am talking to you on a rotary phone.
[01:42:48.340 --> 01:42:49.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you sound just fine.
[01:42:50.900 --> 01:42:52.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, it's a very high quality product.
[01:42:53.740 --> 01:42:54.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:42:54.240 --> 01:42:58.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: I gotta say you, you sound better than most phone conversations I have these days, uh, from cell phones.
[01:42:58.840 --> 01:43:14.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Nothing pains me more than hearing, I'm sorry, Bernie, uh, hearing interviews that are done on cell phones, uh, on, on, uh, various media programs, uh, interviews with an important people, uh, but they sound worse than they did 40 years ago.
[01:43:14.420 --> 01:43:15.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's, there's no excuse for that.
[01:43:16.940 --> 01:43:17.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah.
[01:43:17.940 --> 01:43:18.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah.
[01:43:18.380 --> 01:43:21.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I have a cell phone, which I, I rarely use.
[01:43:21.640 --> 01:43:24.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: I, uh, I tell people to pay appointment only.
[01:43:24.920 --> 01:43:26.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Normally don't carry it around.
[01:43:26.820 --> 01:43:27.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[01:43:28.100 --> 01:43:31.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Just give a message and let me get to a, a landline.
[01:43:31.820 --> 01:43:40.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you find you have a, uh, uh, that you feel like you, a bit of strength in, in your ability to, to make calls?
[01:43:40.440 --> 01:43:42.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Does it feel like it's a, uh, more of a utility?
[01:43:43.220 --> 01:43:45.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: It feels, there's something stronger about it?
[01:43:47.760 --> 01:43:50.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I mean, I just never got rid of the, uh, rotary phone.
[01:43:50.880 --> 01:43:52.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I just always kept it.
[01:43:53.020 --> 01:43:55.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Never saw any reason to, uh, to get rid of it.
[01:43:56.060 --> 01:43:56.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:43:56.640 --> 01:44:11.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: One of the things, and it might have been mentioned on your show, uh, I remember someone saying, one thing that's really good about on these old phones is if you get someone, uh, you know, like these, these, uh, all these telemarketing and all that, you really don't like them.
[01:44:11.700 --> 01:44:14.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can really slam the phone down.
[01:44:14.580 --> 01:44:16.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, you can't really do that.
[01:44:16.440 --> 01:44:17.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh yeah.
[01:44:17.880 --> 01:44:19.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of what I was getting at.
[01:44:19.180 --> 01:44:26.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: I find, I really enjoy the, the quality of the call, but also like having a real bell ring in your house that there's no substitute for that.
[01:44:26.820 --> 01:44:35.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, and just cleaning it up at the fact that it can withstand a drop, uh, from great levels, you know, all that kind of durability.
[01:44:35.360 --> 01:44:38.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: You just don't see in a lot of other products and it's, it's serviceable.
[01:44:38.200 --> 01:44:39.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can fix it and it lasts forever.
[01:44:40.680 --> 01:44:41.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:44:41.080 --> 01:44:42.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: They really knew how to make them in those days.
[01:44:42.400 --> 01:44:49.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you get an old phone from like the 1950s or sixties and you hook it up today, chances are the thing will still work just as well as the day it was roll off the line.
[01:44:49.980 --> 01:44:53.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, you can't say that about a plastic phone that you would buy now.
[01:44:53.240 --> 01:44:56.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: I got to say though, uh, what the caller brought up about slamming the phone down.
[01:44:57.020 --> 01:45:01.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: I realize that's something that's missing in a lot of kids' lives, a lot of adults' lives these days.
[01:45:02.080 --> 01:45:03.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, that's a release.
[01:45:03.760 --> 01:45:08.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: That is a release of anger that, uh, you have to release in some other way if you don't slam the phone down.
[01:45:08.920 --> 01:45:16.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just wonder if we might be having a more unhealthy repressed society because you can't hang the phone up with, with gusto on somebody anymore.
[01:45:16.800 --> 01:45:17.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like you mean it.
[01:45:17.200 --> 01:45:17.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:45:17.580 --> 01:45:20.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: I, I, you know, you, you break your phone if you do it these days.
[01:45:20.420 --> 01:45:20.640]  Right.
[01:45:20.740 --> 01:45:29.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: So the trade off is you can slam the phone down, uh, with some phones or you can like call anywhere in the world from anywhere in the world for basically free.
[01:45:29.700 --> 01:45:32.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: And like, I take the modern phone system over it.
[01:45:32.660 --> 01:45:33.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Nothing is free, Mike.
[01:45:33.740 --> 01:45:34.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think...
[01:45:34.340 --> 01:45:35.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: I said basically free, not free.
[01:45:35.660 --> 01:45:35.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:45:35.760 --> 01:45:38.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think in this particular case, we're, we're, we're paying a price.
[01:45:38.400 --> 01:45:41.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: The price apparently is that you can't slam the phone down anymore.
[01:45:41.800 --> 01:45:42.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm willing to pay it.
[01:45:42.940 --> 01:45:45.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: So many things, so many times I've slammed the phone down in my life.
[01:45:45.860 --> 01:45:50.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: If I, if I didn't have, didn't have that, uh, to express myself, I don't know.
[01:45:50.760 --> 01:45:52.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what I, where I would have gone instead.
[01:45:52.820 --> 01:45:55.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: I could, totally different, uh, roads I would have traveled.
[01:45:55.000 --> 01:46:08.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, look, I think regular listeners to this program know I'm not like an unquestioned fan of any new technology is automatically better, but I think modern telephony is like clearly better than the, than the rotary phone with the slamming down ability.
[01:46:09.100 --> 01:46:09.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:46:09.420 --> 01:46:14.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, and I think, and like billion, literally billions of people around the world agree with that position.
[01:46:14.600 --> 01:46:14.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:46:14.840 --> 01:46:17.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: But they don't agree that it sounds better.
[01:46:17.220 --> 01:46:26.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it might be better as far as a speed with what things, things can be processed, but it's not better as far as the actual sound quality of the voice you were trying to hear on the other side.
[01:46:26.300 --> 01:46:26.300]  Yeah.
[01:46:26.320 --> 01:46:29.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a trade-off, but I think the trade-off is, is well worth it.
[01:46:29.300 --> 01:46:30.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Does it have to be a trade-off?
[01:46:30.680 --> 01:46:43.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think like the ability to keep a call going, you don't get that with, with cell phones, even on Wi-Fi, Mike, like, come on to maintain a call and not like run through corporate phone systems and get transferred all over the place.
[01:46:43.560 --> 01:46:44.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can't do that on a cell phone.
[01:46:44.500 --> 01:46:48.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: You'll get disconnected for bad reception or whatever, have some network error.
[01:46:48.580 --> 01:47:01.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like a landline is a lot harder to just kind of shove off your, off your queue when, when you're, when people, when you're trying to do work, like actually get through to someone and, and have them hear you.
[01:47:01.760 --> 01:47:03.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Again, I don't think it has to be a choice.
[01:47:03.680 --> 01:47:13.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think we can use both technologies, but not simply dismiss one of them, because I think you're always making a mistake when, when you dismiss the old technology or you dismiss a new technology out of hand.
[01:47:13.780 --> 01:47:15.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bernie, I know you have something to say on this.
[01:47:15.220 --> 01:47:15.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:47:16.020 --> 01:47:18.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: I just wanted to ask your listener, a listener, are you still on the line?
[01:47:19.180 --> 01:47:26.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe not, but, um, you said you haven't, you said you never got rid of your, uh, your, your, your rotary phone.
[01:47:26.920 --> 01:47:29.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you still renting it from the telephone company?
[01:47:31.100 --> 01:47:32.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Am I still what with phone companies?
[01:47:32.840 --> 01:47:35.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: He's asking if you're still renting your phone from the phone company.
[01:47:35.960 --> 01:47:36.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, no, no, no.
[01:47:37.040 --> 01:47:44.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: I, you know, I did that for a lot longer than I should have, but, uh, no, I, I, I, I, yeah, I did that for a number of years.
[01:47:45.060 --> 01:47:45.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:47:45.260 --> 01:47:46.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: The old A and T thing.
[01:47:47.220 --> 01:47:50.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: But no, I, uh, no, I got, I actually, someone gave this one to me.
[01:47:51.140 --> 01:47:51.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:47:51.700 --> 01:47:53.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I'm not, I'm not doing that.
[01:47:53.420 --> 01:48:03.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: But there was one other interesting fun fact is that one of the problems with the rotary phone is, of course, you can't call everybody because some systems don't accept a rotary call.
[01:48:03.700 --> 01:48:08.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: And one, one entity that I cannot call with the rotary phone is Verizon.
[01:48:10.000 --> 01:48:11.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, wait, wait, wait, I'm not sure I understand.
[01:48:11.740 --> 01:48:13.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can't call because you have to press buttons.
[01:48:14.360 --> 01:48:17.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you call 1-800-VERIZON, you have to press buttons.
[01:48:17.500 --> 01:48:19.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I can't call Verizon with this phone.
[01:48:19.440 --> 01:48:24.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: You want to challenge, you want to challenge, try to find a, uh, corporate operator at Verizon.
[01:48:24.740 --> 01:48:25.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we did that once.
[01:48:25.380 --> 01:48:25.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good luck.
[01:48:25.920 --> 01:48:26.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: We did that once.
[01:48:26.560 --> 01:48:28.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wasted a whole show trying to get an operator.
[01:48:28.500 --> 01:48:32.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: But one other thing I think that is also being missed in this is latency and delay.
[01:48:32.880 --> 01:48:34.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's, it's a huge problem.
[01:48:35.020 --> 01:48:35.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're right.
[01:48:36.020 --> 01:48:36.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
[01:48:36.660 --> 01:48:38.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: I can't stop doing that.
[01:48:39.280 --> 01:48:41.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, it's really, it's, it's, it's an annoyance.
[01:48:41.700 --> 01:48:45.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: And in fact, uh, you know, people might not know this on old phones.
[01:48:45.500 --> 01:48:48.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, you could have bi-directional conversations.
[01:48:48.220 --> 01:48:49.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: We could both hear each other at the same time.
[01:48:49.940 --> 01:48:57.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: And these things, you know, I, I tell somebody like a Gabby friend of mine that I hold on a second, you know, the kitchen's on fire.
[01:48:57.660 --> 01:48:58.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll have it out in just a moment.
[01:48:58.820 --> 01:48:59.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll be right back.
[01:48:59.760 --> 01:49:01.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I take care of all that.
[01:49:01.100 --> 01:49:01.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Come back.
[01:49:01.760 --> 01:49:02.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're still talking.
[01:49:02.780 --> 01:49:04.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: They didn't even hear me say that.
[01:49:04.180 --> 01:49:05.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: And they just keep on going.
[01:49:05.880 --> 01:49:14.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: I find I have certain people in my life, family members, even that I cannot talk to cell phone to cell phone because we just talk over each other the whole time.
[01:49:14.240 --> 01:49:15.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's completely useless.
[01:49:15.720 --> 01:49:19.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, uh, caller, thanks so much for, uh, for the, uh, interesting conversation.
[01:49:20.120 --> 01:49:20.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, thank you.
[01:49:20.880 --> 01:49:21.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Great show, guys.
[01:49:21.740 --> 01:49:22.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[01:49:22.320 --> 01:49:25.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to try to take one more phone call because we are running out of time.
[01:49:25.400 --> 01:49:28.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Believe it or not, uh, time goes by really, really quickly.
[01:49:28.380 --> 01:49:35.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: We can take many more phone calls though on 212-209-2950 if you wish to pledge your support to the station and get some great thank you gifts.
[01:49:35.900 --> 01:49:36.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[01:49:36.680 --> 01:49:43.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, among those are of course the, uh, TV-B-Gone and, uh, the, uh, what the hippie dippie, what's it called again?
[01:49:43.780 --> 01:49:46.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: The Trippie RGB Wave Kit.
[01:49:46.380 --> 01:49:46.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:49:46.800 --> 01:49:48.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Which, which basically does what again?
[01:49:49.380 --> 01:49:50.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's an awesome kit.
[01:49:50.320 --> 01:49:51.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: You could solder together.
[01:49:51.160 --> 01:49:58.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: Very, uh, very simple to put together and you can control an LED to make any color you want in various, uh, interesting ways.
[01:49:58.160 --> 01:50:00.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: You can learn how to put together electronics.
[01:50:00.360 --> 01:50:02.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: You can learn how to program using this.
[01:50:02.300 --> 01:50:05.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, it's, it's a very neat, uh, it's a very neat toy and a very neat tool.
[01:50:06.120 --> 01:50:13.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, you can get it for a pledge of $50, um, for, at 212-209-2950 or give2wbai.org.
[01:50:14.160 --> 01:50:14.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:50:15.180 --> 01:50:15.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, again...
[01:50:15.800 --> 01:50:16.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: Pledge $75.
[01:50:16.500 --> 01:50:16.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: You'll get both.
[01:50:18.700 --> 01:50:24.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you enjoyed the show, uh, tonight, uh, if you join the show in general, um, why not pledge $75?
[01:50:24.940 --> 01:50:26.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: Why not get a few of these as gifts?
[01:50:26.660 --> 01:50:28.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-209-2950.
[01:50:28.560 --> 01:50:29.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: It all helps.
[01:50:29.380 --> 01:50:31.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: It all goes to making this a better place.
[01:50:32.040 --> 01:50:32.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[01:50:32.700 --> 01:50:41.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, our phone number 331, our call-in number that is 331-223-WBAI, 331-223-9224.
[01:50:41.680 --> 01:50:43.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to try and take one more phone call.
[01:50:43.740 --> 01:50:45.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Apologies for the low audio.
[01:50:45.600 --> 01:50:50.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, Kyle, what you're doing here is, is, is like brain surgery as far as getting it to come into the board at all.
[01:50:51.200 --> 01:50:52.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're using a cell phone.
[01:50:52.560 --> 01:50:55.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're using, we're using, uh, you know, Google Voice.
[01:50:55.140 --> 01:50:56.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what you're talking about.
[01:50:56.280 --> 01:50:57.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: It sounds great.
[01:50:57.660 --> 01:51:00.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's enabled, it's enabled by modern cellular technology.
[01:51:00.660 --> 01:51:01.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh my God.
[01:51:01.400 --> 01:51:01.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:51:01.520 --> 01:51:03.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because we don't have an analog telephone.
[01:51:03.380 --> 01:51:04.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: I wish we did.
[01:51:04.320 --> 01:51:04.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my God.
[01:51:04.880 --> 01:51:05.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: That'd be so great.
[01:51:05.920 --> 01:51:07.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, and, uh, what?
[01:51:07.620 --> 01:51:14.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, uh, a web 2.0 voice calling platform plus modern telephony plus a bunch of AV cables.
[01:51:14.560 --> 01:51:16.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have a caller on the line.
[01:51:16.420 --> 01:51:16.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good evening.
[01:51:16.940 --> 01:51:17.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're on off the hook.
[01:51:19.840 --> 01:51:20.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Speak up, please.
[01:51:22.560 --> 01:51:23.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's try this one.
[01:51:24.860 --> 01:51:25.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good evening.
[01:51:25.560 --> 01:51:26.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're on off the hook.
[01:51:26.320 --> 01:51:27.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, is anybody there?
[01:51:28.120 --> 01:51:29.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think we lost them.
[01:51:29.360 --> 01:51:29.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[01:51:29.800 --> 01:51:29.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:51:29.980 --> 01:51:31.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: We got to talk quickly when we pick up the phone.
[01:51:31.620 --> 01:51:32.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: They get people get confused.
[01:51:32.900 --> 01:51:34.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, finish your comment.
[01:51:34.360 --> 01:51:34.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
[01:51:35.500 --> 01:51:42.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well, no, it's just, uh, it's as, as fine a setup as I think we could, we could muster.
[01:51:42.380 --> 01:51:47.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't gone back to the drawing board to try to improve it at all from the original version.
[01:51:47.220 --> 01:51:55.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure I'm missing some things and I could make it work in stereo and all that kind of, and then there's also this thing in radio, um, mix minus and all that.
[01:51:55.580 --> 01:51:58.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if I was really good, I'd thought that through, but I have no idea.
[01:51:59.220 --> 01:51:59.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:51:59.780 --> 01:52:02.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I'm not sure if, uh, Google voice might not be working.
[01:52:02.560 --> 01:52:04.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: If it might be forwarding everything to voicemail again, that's quite possible.
[01:52:05.500 --> 01:52:09.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, please try and call us again, uh, three, three, one, two, two, three, nine, two, two, four.
[01:52:09.920 --> 01:52:14.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: We only have a couple of minutes left to hear your voices and, uh, get your opinions on various things.
[01:52:14.340 --> 01:52:16.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: Three, three, one, two, two, three, WBAI.
[01:52:16.660 --> 01:52:19.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, we'll keep this line open just for a little bit longer.
[01:52:19.480 --> 01:52:24.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: And again, the pledge line, two, one, two, two, zero, nine, two, nine, five, zero.
[01:52:24.200 --> 01:52:27.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bernie, I'm sure if you start talking, the phone line will start ringing and I'll have to interrupt you.
[01:52:28.320 --> 01:52:30.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, two, one, two, two, zero, nine, two, nine, five, zero.
[01:52:30.960 --> 01:52:37.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Get some great thank you gifts and support a radio station that plays something you'd like to listen to for the past two hours.
[01:52:38.300 --> 01:52:38.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.
[01:52:39.020 --> 01:52:39.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[01:52:39.540 --> 01:52:40.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, thank you.
[01:52:40.620 --> 01:52:42.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I don't think this is working right now.
[01:52:42.860 --> 01:52:45.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: So what I'm going to do is I'm going to deactivate it like that.
[01:52:46.020 --> 01:52:49.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then I'm going to activate it like this.
[01:52:49.980 --> 01:52:52.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's how you fix things these days.
[01:52:52.520 --> 01:52:55.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have to click and switch and various things like that.
[01:52:55.140 --> 01:52:56.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: So our phone number now might be working.
[01:52:56.960 --> 01:52:58.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, and there it goes.
[01:52:58.180 --> 01:52:59.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's how you do things.
[01:52:59.280 --> 01:53:00.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Another call from New Jersey.
[01:53:00.820 --> 01:53:01.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good evening.
[01:53:01.780 --> 01:53:03.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're on off the hook.
[01:53:05.340 --> 01:53:06.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Speak up, please.
[01:53:06.140 --> 01:53:06.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Go ahead.
[01:53:06.420 --> 01:53:06.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[01:53:06.680 --> 01:53:07.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're on the air.
[01:53:08.420 --> 01:53:15.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: So somebody was saying that you couldn't call a, uh, digital system off an analog phone.
[01:53:15.400 --> 01:53:20.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: In the old days, what I was able to do was to just click the receiver the, uh, number of times.
[01:53:20.960 --> 01:53:23.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: So if you clicked it 10 times, you'd get an operator.
[01:53:24.160 --> 01:53:26.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you clicked it nine times, you'd get a nine.
[01:53:26.900 --> 01:53:27.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[01:53:27.300 --> 01:53:32.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: You actually can, uh, interact with the digital system through the analog phone.
[01:53:32.240 --> 01:53:39.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now we were talking about that, but I think, I think you might've misunderstood what we were saying before, uh, when we said we couldn't use a rotary phone to call Verizon.
[01:53:39.960 --> 01:53:41.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not that we can't connect.
[01:53:41.220 --> 01:53:47.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's that once you do connect, they're telling you to press one for this, two for that, and a rotary phone, that's not going to get you far.
[01:53:48.360 --> 01:53:48.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[01:53:48.840 --> 01:53:51.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: You just, you click it one and you get one.
[01:53:51.620 --> 01:53:55.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a way to dial pound or star though?
[01:53:55.600 --> 01:53:59.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: If after that one or two, you have to do that followed by a pound.
[01:53:59.900 --> 01:54:00.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:54:00.740 --> 01:54:03.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that is, well, I think that's where it gets you.
[01:54:03.800 --> 01:54:04.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[01:54:04.140 --> 01:54:05.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it can do that or not.
[01:54:05.780 --> 01:54:06.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe Rob, do you know?
[01:54:07.140 --> 01:54:10.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Also, these systems are set up to just listen for the tones, not the pulses.
[01:54:10.560 --> 01:54:17.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the way the phone company did it, uh, you know, if you were dialing say a star six nine and you didn't have a star, you would dial one, one, six, nine.
[01:54:17.940 --> 01:54:18.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: They figured that out.
[01:54:18.860 --> 01:54:22.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, but that doesn't work on voicemail systems where you have to hit a pound at the end.
[01:54:22.240 --> 01:54:22.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:54:22.520 --> 01:54:26.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Little challenges like that, but it's, it's a way of, of keeping people out of the conversation.
[01:54:26.260 --> 01:54:30.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a way of, uh, of shutting off access to those people that don't choose to go along.
[01:54:30.760 --> 01:54:38.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sure one of our listeners has an old RadioShack tone dialer that we can donate to the previous caller to enable him to interact with Verizon.
[01:54:39.240 --> 01:54:39.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Exactly.
[01:54:40.160 --> 01:54:42.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Without a phone in the last 30 years.
[01:54:42.500 --> 01:54:56.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: You could set up multiple extensions off your landline and presumably have, uh, tones join the call as you, uh, press them in, uh, as, and have them access the call, like, just like another extension would, but just be, uh, tones right there.
[01:54:56.820 --> 01:54:58.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Another Touch-Tone phone.
[01:54:58.260 --> 01:55:00.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Then you continue to use your rotary phone.
[01:55:00.720 --> 01:55:01.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: I do that all the time.
[01:55:01.620 --> 01:55:06.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: The important thing is to set it up the way you want to set it up and, and use as much technology as you're comfortable using.
[01:55:06.660 --> 01:55:08.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, and, uh, don't let anybody boss you around.
[01:55:08.840 --> 01:55:13.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I could probably dig out my old RadioShack tone dialer, but I think it somehow ended up with the wrong frequency crystal in it.
[01:55:13.880 --> 01:55:14.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that'll happen.
[01:55:14.820 --> 01:55:15.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Any, uh, final words, caller?
[01:55:17.180 --> 01:55:17.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, no.
[01:55:17.840 --> 01:55:18.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks a lot.
[01:55:18.740 --> 01:55:19.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[01:55:19.160 --> 01:55:19.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for your call.
[01:55:20.400 --> 01:55:22.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, Bernie, any final words from you?
[01:55:22.440 --> 01:55:23.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because we're reaching the end of this program.
[01:55:24.200 --> 01:55:25.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think this is a great show.
[01:55:25.540 --> 01:55:28.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: I wish we had two hours every week, but in any case, I want to thank our listeners.
[01:55:29.020 --> 01:55:32.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: And this is your last chance to get a TV be gone before they're all gone.
[01:55:32.680 --> 01:55:38.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: 212-209-2950 or a chirpy RGB waves kit, or get them both.
[01:55:38.200 --> 01:55:41.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just call 212-209-2950 and support the station.
[01:55:42.220 --> 01:55:42.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[01:55:42.980 --> 01:55:46.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, $50 pledge for each of the items, 75 for both of the items.
[01:55:46.560 --> 01:55:48.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's really, uh, a remarkable deal.
[01:55:48.740 --> 01:55:52.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's only available, uh, on, on this particular program on this particular evening.
[01:55:53.060 --> 01:56:03.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks to, uh, Mitch Altman, who I, you know, if he started speeding in a train from Shanghai, uh, to Beijing at the beginning of this show, I reckon he might be there by now, but they go pretty fast.
[01:56:03.160 --> 01:56:08.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: I went on one going the other way a number of years ago, and it took, it was an overnight train, but every year they make it faster.
[01:56:09.180 --> 01:56:11.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, uh, it probably takes about 20 minutes now.
[01:56:12.280 --> 01:56:14.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll find out and we'll have Mitch on future shows as well.
[01:56:15.020 --> 01:56:18.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, hopefully we'll hear from our listeners in future programs.
[01:56:18.620 --> 01:56:22.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: In addition, write to us, oth@2600.com.
[01:56:22.660 --> 01:56:23.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: We want to hear from you.
[01:56:23.700 --> 01:56:24.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: We won't be here next week.
[01:56:25.400 --> 01:56:26.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: We will not.
[01:56:26.360 --> 01:56:28.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, but we will be here in two weeks.
[01:56:28.180 --> 01:56:29.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think we're doing another two hour show in two weeks.
[01:56:30.020 --> 01:56:30.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: So won't that be fun?
[01:56:31.920 --> 01:56:37.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, I just want to thank everybody who supported, uh, our fundraising tonight.
[01:56:37.200 --> 01:56:37.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, please.
[01:56:37.900 --> 01:56:42.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, if you have not called yet, do call, but I noticed a lot of calls were coming in, so that's great to see.
[01:56:43.360 --> 01:56:45.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, once more, the phone number 212-209-2950.
[01:56:47.040 --> 01:56:55.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: For Kyle, for Rob, for Mike, for Bernie, for Mitch, and for all of you out there, it's Emmanuel saying goodnight.
[01:56:56.080 --> 01:56:56.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Till next time.