[00:00.000 --> 00:07.460] [SPEAKER_00]: ...class people are determined to stop displacement, racial profiling, and police violence in our neighborhoods.
[00:07.740 --> 00:19.980] [SPEAKER_00]: That's Saturday, August 13th, at noon, a march against gentrification, racism, and police violence in Flatbush and East Flatbush, organized by Equality for Flatbush.
[00:19.980 --> 00:32.020] [SPEAKER_00]: For more information, email Imani at equalityforflatbush.org or call 646-820-6039.
[00:35.730 --> 00:38.650] [SPEAKER_05]: And the time is just about 7 o'clock p.m.
[00:39.210 --> 00:46.890] [SPEAKER_05]: You're listening to 99.5 FM, WBAI New York, on the web at wbai.org.
[00:46.890 --> 00:50.490] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's just about time for another exciting edition of Off The Hook.
[00:56.110 --> 01:00.510] [SPEAKER_07]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:01.510 --> 01:06.030] [SPEAKER_07]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:06.690 --> 01:14.310] [SPEAKER_07]: We couldn't get much worse, Bum Diddly Bump, but the best is paid for worst.
[01:14.890 --> 01:17.870] [SPEAKER_07]: I hope that's understood, Bum Diddly Bump!
[01:57.940 --> 02:00.780] [SPEAKER_05]: And a very, very good evening to you.
[02:01.040 --> 02:02.220] [SPEAKER_05]: The program is Off The Hook.
[02:02.340 --> 02:02.680] [SPEAKER_05]: Rob T. Firefly here with you.
[02:04.440 --> 02:05.580] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm alone.
[02:05.940 --> 02:07.120] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm alone in this studio.
[02:07.940 --> 02:09.280] [SPEAKER_05]: On the phone, we do not have Bernie S.
[02:09.400 --> 02:09.840] [SPEAKER_05]: from Philadelphia.
[02:10.200 --> 02:11.500] [SPEAKER_05]: In the studio, we do not have Emmanuel.
[02:11.500 --> 02:12.420] [SPEAKER_05]: We do not have Kyle.
[02:13.140 --> 02:14.040] [SPEAKER_05]: They are on their way.
[02:14.160 --> 02:15.520] [SPEAKER_05]: They will be here slightly later.
[02:15.720 --> 02:17.580] [SPEAKER_05]: We might have another friend or two joining us.
[02:19.660 --> 02:21.640] [SPEAKER_05]: But all is not lost, dear listeners.
[02:22.620 --> 02:24.280] [SPEAKER_05]: For I do have on the phone...
[02:25.760 --> 02:27.360] [SPEAKER_05]: A special guest.
[02:28.680 --> 02:30.420] [SPEAKER_05]: Someone who's been on this program before.
[02:30.600 --> 02:32.200] [SPEAKER_05]: She was on shortly before Hope.
[02:32.820 --> 02:37.620] [SPEAKER_05]: Her name is Nina Ali, and she presented biohacking materials at Hope.
[02:37.840 --> 02:41.880] [SPEAKER_05]: She was active in the biohacking stuff at the recent DEFCON convention.
[02:42.500 --> 02:43.440] [SPEAKER_05]: Nina, are you with us?
[02:44.240 --> 02:44.920] [SPEAKER_01]: I am.
[02:45.100 --> 02:45.320] [SPEAKER_01]: Hi.
[02:45.620 --> 02:46.200] [SPEAKER_05]: Hello, Nina.
[02:46.440 --> 02:46.960] [SPEAKER_05]: Here we are.
[02:47.340 --> 02:47.600] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey.
[02:47.960 --> 02:55.520] [SPEAKER_05]: So, with everything going on, I assume you're properly recovered from the DEFCON conference?
[02:56.920 --> 02:57.760] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not.
[02:57.760 --> 02:59.360] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been sleeping really late.
[02:59.360 --> 03:01.760] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think today was my breaking point, so I'm good now.
[03:04.760 --> 03:07.100] [SPEAKER_05]: So, tell us a little bit about what you were doing.
[03:07.260 --> 03:09.140] [SPEAKER_05]: We heard a little bit about what you were going to present at Hope.
[03:09.500 --> 03:10.340] [SPEAKER_05]: Did that all go well?
[03:11.900 --> 03:12.660] [SPEAKER_01]: I think so.
[03:12.840 --> 03:13.820] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it went pretty well.
[03:14.080 --> 03:15.740] [SPEAKER_01]: I ended up showing one slide.
[03:15.900 --> 03:19.000] [SPEAKER_01]: I made the executive decision that morning that I wanted to talk...
[03:19.420 --> 03:21.500] [SPEAKER_01]: to speak to the crowd, not at the crowd.
[03:21.700 --> 03:24.920] [SPEAKER_01]: So there could be more of a conversation instead of me directing.
[03:26.000 --> 03:27.160] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that went pretty well.
[03:27.160 --> 03:30.760] [SPEAKER_01]: I think my talk was well-received.
[03:31.120 --> 03:37.400] [SPEAKER_05]: And for listeners who missed your previous episode and who didn't catch your talk, can you talk a little bit about what it was?
[03:38.060 --> 03:38.960] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.
[03:39.160 --> 03:43.900] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I talk about DNA and how it actually...
[03:43.900 --> 03:44.560] [SPEAKER_01]: my own DNA.
[03:44.800 --> 03:55.500] [SPEAKER_01]: And how it actually helped me save my own life by going to the doctor and presenting the findings that I had through 23 in me and being able to avert my own death.
[03:55.500 --> 04:05.440] [SPEAKER_01]: So, in a nutshell, it said that I was going to die of reproductive cancer and went to my doctor, had some tests done.
[04:05.740 --> 04:08.020] [SPEAKER_01]: One of my hormones was 30 times what it should have been.
[04:08.220 --> 04:09.320] [SPEAKER_01]: We did an MRI.
[04:10.800 --> 04:14.160] [SPEAKER_01]: We did find a benign tumor in my brain.
[04:14.340 --> 04:17.220] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's going to be watched.
[04:17.220 --> 04:20.820] [SPEAKER_01]: And as far as I know right now, it's...
[04:21.660 --> 04:22.300] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm fine.
[04:22.480 --> 04:22.980] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm alive.
[04:23.180 --> 04:24.360] [SPEAKER_01]: So, happy ending to that story.
[04:24.580 --> 04:25.140] [SPEAKER_05]: Glad to hear it.
[04:25.240 --> 04:26.400] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's one of the...
[04:26.880 --> 04:40.620] [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those things where we need to be more informed and take our healthcare into our own hands and present information to physicians and just make sure that we are all on the same page of proactive healthcare, not reactive healthcare.
[04:41.400 --> 04:41.900] [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.
[04:42.180 --> 04:46.860] [SPEAKER_05]: And so, what were the biohacking things at DEFCON that you were involved with?
[04:48.280 --> 04:53.260] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I am the project leader at the DEFCON biohacking village.
[04:54.160 --> 04:55.740] [SPEAKER_01]: The presentations varied.
[04:55.760 --> 05:01.180] [SPEAKER_01]: It was sort of a tour de force, as one of the participants told me, and I was very happy to hear that.
[05:01.740 --> 05:06.300] [SPEAKER_01]: It ran the gamut of grinders, nootropics.
[05:06.300 --> 05:08.660] [SPEAKER_01]: The FBI came, DARPA, a lawyer.
[05:09.280 --> 05:10.800] [SPEAKER_01]: It was marijuana.
[05:11.260 --> 05:17.660] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people came to just bring the whole biohacking theme full force and full spectrum.
[05:18.020 --> 05:19.620] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was really happy with the outcomes.
[05:20.320 --> 05:21.720] [SPEAKER_05]: So, it all went well.
[05:22.880 --> 05:23.620] [SPEAKER_05]: I think so.
[05:23.800 --> 05:25.360] [SPEAKER_05]: What kind of stuff went out there?
[05:25.440 --> 05:26.380] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, what was it like running that?
[05:28.900 --> 05:31.480] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, it was probably the same way you felt at Hope.
[05:31.780 --> 05:32.500] [SPEAKER_01]: It was a lot.
[05:32.500 --> 05:34.040] [SPEAKER_01]: But it was...
[05:34.040 --> 05:35.140] [SPEAKER_01]: But you know what?
[05:35.200 --> 05:36.920] [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, at the end, it was so gratifying.
[05:37.060 --> 05:40.940] [SPEAKER_01]: I felt so good at the end of every day knowing it was...
[05:40.940 --> 05:41.940] [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, it was done.
[05:42.200 --> 05:42.820] [SPEAKER_01]: Day one was done.
[05:42.860 --> 05:43.380] [SPEAKER_01]: Day two was done.
[05:43.400 --> 05:43.920] [SPEAKER_01]: Day three was done.
[05:44.180 --> 05:46.340] [SPEAKER_01]: But more than that, it was...
[05:46.340 --> 05:47.920] [SPEAKER_01]: People were interested.
[05:48.540 --> 05:49.880] [SPEAKER_01]: They were getting involved.
[05:50.540 --> 05:51.800] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I wanted.
[05:52.000 --> 05:56.080] [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted this to be something where people would walk in and say, wow, what is this?
[05:56.160 --> 05:56.700] [SPEAKER_01]: What are you doing?
[05:57.180 --> 06:03.180] [SPEAKER_01]: And actually, we were upstairs on the 26th floor in the corner next to Sky Talks.
[06:04.000 --> 06:05.600] [SPEAKER_01]: And I love Sky Talks.
[06:05.680 --> 06:06.440] [SPEAKER_01]: I love all of DEFCON.
[06:06.600 --> 06:10.960] [SPEAKER_01]: But at one point, we ended up outdoing the line for Sky Talks.
[06:11.300 --> 06:13.620] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was just phenomenal.
[06:14.140 --> 06:16.040] [SPEAKER_05]: And what are Sky Talks for those of you from here?
[06:18.280 --> 06:21.820] [SPEAKER_01]: So you're not allowed to record or take any pictures.
[06:22.160 --> 06:26.700] [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of a free forum to have whatever kind of discussion you want to have up there.
[06:27.500 --> 06:27.940] [SPEAKER_05]: Interesting.
[06:28.740 --> 06:31.200] [SPEAKER_05]: We've just been joined in the studio by our old friend Alex.
[06:31.380 --> 06:32.020] [SPEAKER_05]: Alex, how are you today?
[06:32.240 --> 06:32.740] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm all right.
[06:32.740 --> 06:36.380] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm a bit of a sweaty mess having just, you know, run through the streets of Brooklyn.
[06:36.580 --> 06:41.780] [SPEAKER_06]: It's a constant reminder today that we were about 75% water or so.
[06:43.000 --> 06:43.440] [SPEAKER_06]: Excellent.
[06:44.860 --> 06:46.140] [SPEAKER_05]: So speaking of...
[06:46.140 --> 06:46.500] [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Alex.
[06:46.680 --> 06:47.420] [SPEAKER_05]: How are you?
[06:47.620 --> 06:48.060] [SPEAKER_05]: Good evening.
[06:48.780 --> 06:49.220] [SPEAKER_01]: Fantastic.
[06:49.440 --> 06:49.660] [SPEAKER_01]: Hello.
[06:50.600 --> 06:59.400] [SPEAKER_05]: Speaking of things we're made up of, so what sorts of new and interesting things could people discover when they came up to your table at DEFCON?
[07:00.260 --> 07:02.040] [SPEAKER_01]: So it wasn't actually a table, it was a room.
[07:02.220 --> 07:02.960] [SPEAKER_01]: We had our own room.
[07:03.220 --> 07:07.420] [SPEAKER_01]: It was the inaugural year of the DEFCON village.
[07:07.640 --> 07:09.520] [SPEAKER_01]: So full force DEFCON village.
[07:09.920 --> 07:10.260] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[07:10.300 --> 07:10.980] [SPEAKER_01]: Biohacking village.
[07:11.920 --> 07:12.880] [SPEAKER_01]: It was...
[07:12.880 --> 07:17.300] [SPEAKER_01]: Again, it just depended on what time they came in and what they were interested in.
[07:17.900 --> 07:19.060] [SPEAKER_01]: Day one was...
[07:19.620 --> 07:20.740] [SPEAKER_01]: It was a lot of things.
[07:20.960 --> 07:22.820] [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted genomics there.
[07:23.700 --> 07:24.500] [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted...
[07:24.500 --> 07:26.120] [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted it to run the gamut.
[07:26.960 --> 07:36.200] [SPEAKER_01]: So regardless of what anybody was interested in or what they wanted to learn about, they would be able to at one point or another walk in and grasp something.
[07:36.340 --> 07:37.440] [SPEAKER_01]: We also had the implants.
[07:37.740 --> 07:39.040] [SPEAKER_01]: We had a mall doing implants.
[07:39.440 --> 07:43.320] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I hear somebody actually got implanted with something at the conference.
[07:44.300 --> 07:45.380] [SPEAKER_01]: More than one person.
[07:45.620 --> 07:49.680] [SPEAKER_01]: I think he brought like 200 implants and they were all gone.
[07:50.260 --> 07:50.940] [SPEAKER_01]: Most of it...
[07:50.940 --> 07:54.260] [SPEAKER_01]: 190 were gone by Saturday.
[07:54.660 --> 07:57.020] [SPEAKER_01]: He had about 10 to 13 left on Sunday.
[07:57.840 --> 07:58.200] [SPEAKER_05]: Huh.
[07:58.400 --> 07:59.820] [SPEAKER_05]: And what sorts of implants were these?
[08:01.260 --> 08:03.580] [SPEAKER_01]: They were NFC and RFID implants.
[08:03.900 --> 08:13.000] [SPEAKER_01]: So actually, we went to the social engineering village and he did a live implant on Michelle, who's one of the owners of the social engineering village.
[08:13.060 --> 08:14.320] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was...
[08:14.320 --> 08:15.000] [SPEAKER_01]: that was a good time.
[08:17.360 --> 08:21.980] [SPEAKER_05]: Wow, so just passive RFID or anything fancier?
[08:22.280 --> 08:22.780] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, they're passive.
[08:23.000 --> 08:23.540] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, great.
[08:23.640 --> 08:24.080] [SPEAKER_01]: They're passive.
[08:25.260 --> 08:27.800] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, so it looks like we've got...
[08:27.800 --> 08:29.460] [SPEAKER_05]: there are people creeping into the studio.
[08:30.200 --> 08:30.980] [SPEAKER_05]: I seem to...
[08:30.980 --> 08:31.060] [SPEAKER_05]: Very nice.
[08:31.060 --> 08:32.700] [SPEAKER_05]: ...kind of recognize them.
[08:32.780 --> 08:33.360] [SPEAKER_05]: It's been a while.
[08:33.980 --> 08:39.800] [SPEAKER_05]: But, no, Emmanuel and Kyle are setting things up and they will be taking their places in due course.
[08:39.940 --> 08:42.700] [SPEAKER_05]: But for now, let's focus back on you, Nina.
[08:42.860 --> 08:49.800] [SPEAKER_05]: So, now that you've done the biohacking talk at Hope and you've done this biohacking village at DEFCON.
[08:50.980 --> 08:52.860] [SPEAKER_05]: How are you feeling about the whole thing?
[08:52.960 --> 09:00.600] [SPEAKER_05]: Because it seemed to us from the Hope staff point of view that there's been such a huge surge in interest in the biohacking stuff in general.
[09:01.440 --> 09:01.960] Mm-hmm.
[09:03.280 --> 09:04.460] [SPEAKER_01]: I totally agree.
[09:05.000 --> 09:07.280] [SPEAKER_05]: What do you think causes that?
[09:07.320 --> 09:08.040] [SPEAKER_05]: How do you account for that?
[09:10.360 --> 09:14.480] [SPEAKER_01]: I think medicine is one of the last frontiers of technology.
[09:14.820 --> 09:23.960] [SPEAKER_01]: We've put so much stock in, you know, the industry of medicine itself telling us what's good for us and what we should be doing and how to take care of ourselves.
[09:24.360 --> 09:26.680] [SPEAKER_01]: And now we're doing more for ourselves.
[09:26.880 --> 09:29.820] [SPEAKER_01]: We're learning more about how our biology and physiology work.
[09:30.520 --> 09:35.920] [SPEAKER_01]: And because we're doing all of this, we're able to do more with it.
[09:36.040 --> 09:37.620] [SPEAKER_01]: We can take care of ourselves better.
[09:37.880 --> 09:38.880] [SPEAKER_01]: We have more knowledge.
[09:39.380 --> 09:50.420] [SPEAKER_01]: And thusly so, we're also changing the way that we perceive ourselves and medicine and doing and making making better decisions with it and making changes to it.
[09:52.460 --> 09:57.060] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you feel that it's something that's becoming more accessible to the average hacker?
[09:57.320 --> 10:06.620] [SPEAKER_05]: Like the, I think maybe some of the some of the trappings, some of the things that you would want to have to start playing with this stuff are getting more available, cheaper, more understandable?
[10:07.840 --> 10:08.280] [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely.
[10:08.940 --> 10:15.420] [SPEAKER_01]: There are a lot of DIY bio spaces opening up all over the United States.
[10:15.620 --> 10:18.300] [SPEAKER_01]: The one that I go to here in Brooklyn is Genspace.
[10:18.980 --> 10:27.760] [SPEAKER_01]: And during Hope, actually, I met a bunch of other people from DIY places in California, like BioCurious and a bunch of other places.
[10:27.760 --> 10:36.140] [SPEAKER_01]: And we're just giving people that conduit to make those, you know, to experiment, to start doing things.
[10:37.500 --> 10:38.020] [SPEAKER_05]: Excellent.
[10:38.500 --> 10:41.020] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, what do you think the future holds for all this?
[10:41.180 --> 10:45.200] [SPEAKER_05]: Will you be back again next conference season doing more of the same?
[10:46.540 --> 10:47.940] [SPEAKER_01]: For DEFCON or for Hope?
[10:48.640 --> 10:49.140] [SPEAKER_05]: Both.
[10:49.400 --> 10:49.620] [SPEAKER_05]: Either.
[10:50.020 --> 10:50.540] [SPEAKER_05]: Everything.
[10:50.540 --> 10:52.860] [SPEAKER_01]: I would just...
[10:52.860 --> 10:54.940] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm planting a seed right now.
[10:55.160 --> 11:07.020] [SPEAKER_01]: I would love to be on the speaker committee at Hope because 13 is one of my favorite numbers and if I can just plant that seed, that would be glorious for me.
[11:07.200 --> 11:13.880] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm actually PMing the DEFCON Biohacking Village again this year and I have a lot of plans.
[11:13.880 --> 11:21.980] [SPEAKER_01]: We've started conversations about what we're going to do already, so it's going to be a lot and it's going to be awesome.
[11:22.580 --> 11:23.020] [SPEAKER_05]: Excellent.
[11:23.460 --> 11:25.860] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, Nina, thank you very much for joining us for a bit.
[11:26.780 --> 11:28.280] [SPEAKER_05]: And we wish you all the best.
[11:28.460 --> 11:29.120] [SPEAKER_05]: We'll catch up with you soon.
[11:29.460 --> 11:29.860] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[11:30.360 --> 11:30.580] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[11:30.760 --> 11:31.300] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[11:32.040 --> 11:32.760] [SPEAKER_05]: Have a great night.
[11:34.100 --> 11:50.240] [SPEAKER_05]: So, that was Nina Ali and you can find more material about what she's all about on the archives of Hope and DEFCON and everything else that are popping up and so I should also mention, I have not made mention yet, that this is indeed still fundraising season here at WBAI.
[11:50.500 --> 11:59.740] [SPEAKER_05]: So, if you think that what we do here is important, if you think that it's worth continuing, we need your support to make it keep happening.
[11:59.860 --> 12:13.320] [SPEAKER_05]: So, if you go to give2wbai.org for self-service style or if you want to do it on the phone and call our pledge line at 516-620-3602, WBAI has some premiums that they can send you.
[12:13.800 --> 12:19.280] [SPEAKER_05]: We are still working on fulfilling the premiums for those of you who have not received our past ones.
[12:19.460 --> 12:29.040] [SPEAKER_05]: If you have not already and you're still waiting on a premium, send us your receipt and we will add it to what we're hanging on to and what we're using to make sure everything gets fulfilled.
[12:30.220 --> 12:33.440] [SPEAKER_05]: But, yeah, give us what support you can.
[12:33.840 --> 12:39.660] [SPEAKER_05]: WBAI, give2wbai.org or 516-620-3602.
[12:39.880 --> 12:43.120] [SPEAKER_05]: I think this season, the station itself is the premium.
[12:43.240 --> 12:45.880] [SPEAKER_05]: Keeping us going is what's really important about all this.
[12:46.600 --> 12:52.960] [SPEAKER_05]: And we could not do this without the support that we get from our listeners, both momentary.
[12:52.960 --> 13:05.360] [SPEAKER_05]: If you join our WBAI buddy program and you have an automatic donation that comes on a monthly basis, either way, you become part of what goes on here, you become part of what keeps us going here, and you become part of everything.
[13:05.920 --> 13:06.960] [SPEAKER_05]: Kyle, you're here.
[13:07.360 --> 13:07.880] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm here.
[13:08.340 --> 13:09.140] [SPEAKER_05]: Welcome to here.
[13:09.420 --> 13:12.080] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe you could talk a bit about why this place is important.
[13:12.360 --> 13:13.020] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.
[13:13.480 --> 13:17.140] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, there's a lot of transition going on with WBAI right now.
[13:17.700 --> 13:25.020] [SPEAKER_03]: We had relocated from a really wonderful place downtown, and we're in a temporary facility for a while.
[13:25.560 --> 13:34.740] [SPEAKER_03]: And now we have this incredible building that is kind of a great what do I want to say?
[13:36.500 --> 13:38.220] [SPEAKER_03]: Space for intersection.
[13:38.540 --> 13:43.300] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, intersection, where everyone of sort of the like
[13:46.500 --> 13:52.260] [SPEAKER_03]: perspectives and that definite community spirit can cooperate.
[13:52.560 --> 14:02.440] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's kind of a new space, and we've been slowly building different capabilities out, but we desperately need your support now.
[14:03.460 --> 14:07.700] [SPEAKER_03]: please call 516-620-3602.
[14:08.260 --> 14:12.140] [SPEAKER_03]: This is WBAI 99.5 FM.
[14:12.300 --> 14:15.840] [SPEAKER_03]: We're also available at WBAI.org.
[14:16.340 --> 14:28.960] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of information there about other shows, and most importantly, ways to participate, ways to get involved, and of course, donating, which is what we're doing right now.
[14:31.900 --> 14:53.040] [SPEAKER_03]: among other things, you basically you can become a member, you can do different types of pledging where you become a buddy, and that program is basically just sort of a monthly predictable amount, a small amount, maybe like $5, a couple bucks, really anything that you can contribute.
[14:53.340 --> 15:05.300] [SPEAKER_03]: And what happens with that is that then gets processed as as do the other pledges and contributions that we accrue during these fund drives.
[15:05.680 --> 15:15.100] [SPEAKER_03]: And we're able to pay things like everyday kind of expenses that a business would incur, but these happen to be radio-specific.
[15:15.440 --> 15:18.180] [SPEAKER_03]: And so that's a fantastic way to get involved.
[15:18.280 --> 15:32.420] [SPEAKER_03]: You can become a member of the station, and especially if you call now around this time we'll definitely get credit if you're able to contribute.
[15:34.300 --> 15:39.600] [SPEAKER_03]: And this is really a place for exciting and interesting programming.
[15:39.840 --> 15:47.500] [SPEAKER_03]: We are specifically covering topics of hacking, phreaking, sociology, communications, philosophy.
[15:47.720 --> 16:06.700] [SPEAKER_03]: We have a pretty wide open gamut, but it all comes down to hacking and the term, the history, and the spirit of inquisitiveness, asking questions, trying to figure out how systems work, how systems impact you, how you can affect systems.
[16:07.220 --> 16:09.780] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you can still do that.
[16:10.220 --> 16:14.140] [SPEAKER_03]: So all of those things are what we cover on this year's show.
[16:14.520 --> 16:16.560] [SPEAKER_03]: And we're delighted to be here.
[16:16.660 --> 16:28.180] [SPEAKER_03]: We love this opportunity, but it does not just happen out of thin air and it is not a foregone conclusion that we'll be here.
[16:28.420 --> 16:29.520] [SPEAKER_03]: We need your support.
[16:30.240 --> 16:32.900] [SPEAKER_03]: So whether we're fundraising or not, we're fundraising, right?
[16:33.380 --> 16:34.520] [SPEAKER_05]: We are indeed.
[16:34.800 --> 16:35.740] [SPEAKER_05]: We are still fundraising.
[16:35.920 --> 16:39.200] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll mention the number again, 516-620-3602.
[16:39.420 --> 16:43.700] [SPEAKER_03]: That's 516-620-3602.
[16:44.080 --> 16:45.640] [SPEAKER_03]: There's many different pledge levels.
[16:45.640 --> 16:57.420] [SPEAKER_03]: You can become a member, you can become a buddy, know that you're supporting community-based radio, one of the strongest, most amazing community radio stations in this nation, dare I say.
[16:57.900 --> 16:59.520] [SPEAKER_03]: And it needs your help.
[16:59.600 --> 17:02.880] [SPEAKER_03]: It needs your help financially, but also we're rebuilding.
[17:03.060 --> 17:09.440] [SPEAKER_03]: We are forming community, reforming community, and part of that process is fundraising.
[17:09.440 --> 17:11.120] [SPEAKER_03]: We want to get back on track.
[17:11.120 --> 17:17.900] [SPEAKER_03]: We want to get our finances right so that we can build out this awesome community space that we're a part of.
[17:17.900 --> 17:43.580] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a great cooperative opportunity and by supporting this programming, by supporting the station, you can create a space that will allow members of the community like you to come and broadcast yourself and take advantage of the radio spectrum and all that it offers as far as getting information to people and telling your story.
[17:44.180 --> 17:47.620] [SPEAKER_05]: I agree with everything you said, Kyle, and I'd like you to repeat it all starting now.
[17:47.780 --> 17:49.380] [SPEAKER_05]: No, I'll do it in reverse.
[17:49.780 --> 17:55.100] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, well, maybe somebody can do that with the MP3 after the fact and have that to enjoy.
[17:55.320 --> 17:56.160] [SPEAKER_05]: Emmanuel, you're here.
[17:56.680 --> 17:59.480] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I was trying to see how long I could go without saying anything.
[18:00.060 --> 18:03.320] [SPEAKER_04]: I just want one of these shows where I just kind of sit here and watch.
[18:04.200 --> 18:06.280] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I did just land along with Kyle.
[18:06.660 --> 18:08.160] [SPEAKER_04]: There are tornadoes at east, you know that?
[18:09.140 --> 18:21.980] [SPEAKER_04]: Tornadoes and heavy rain and a lot of stupid people on the highway, but we made it anyway, and thanks to you and everybody for manning the fort while we were away, and yeah, here we are.
[18:22.120 --> 18:26.040] [SPEAKER_03]: We had to get our suction cups maintained.
[18:26.040 --> 18:27.060] [SPEAKER_03]: We dropped them off.
[18:27.180 --> 18:28.200] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we were following the story.
[18:28.300 --> 18:34.860] [SPEAKER_04]: This guy climbed the Trump building while the whole time we were driving this guy was climbing the Trump building with suction cups.
[18:35.080 --> 18:40.340] [SPEAKER_03]: It was riveting, but yeah, apparently it
[18:43.520 --> 18:46.400] [SPEAKER_03]: wasn't something he was going to be able to finish because I think they grabbed him.
[18:46.400 --> 18:52.380] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the cops got in the way as they always do in situations like this, but it's yet another way to get the word Trump into the news media.
[18:53.380 --> 18:53.740] [SPEAKER_04]: Unbelievable.
[18:54.300 --> 18:55.200] [SPEAKER_04]: And Alex, you're here.
[18:55.400 --> 18:56.000] [SPEAKER_04]: I am indeed.
[18:56.240 --> 18:56.440] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[18:56.600 --> 18:57.220] [SPEAKER_04]: Great to be here.
[18:57.340 --> 18:58.540] [SPEAKER_04]: It is great to be here, isn't it?
[18:58.640 --> 19:00.700] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we sure worked for it today.
[19:01.000 --> 19:01.780] [SPEAKER_06]: There's no question.
[19:01.960 --> 19:02.460] [SPEAKER_06]: No question.
[19:02.620 --> 19:09.180] [SPEAKER_06]: I wasn't sure what kind of suction cups you were talking about because I thought you might be talking about the suction cups that everybody's using during the Olympics.
[19:09.560 --> 19:09.860] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah.
[19:10.240 --> 19:11.420] [SPEAKER_06]: There are different suction cups.
[19:11.440 --> 19:12.980] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a good month of suction cups.
[19:13.020 --> 19:13.620] [SPEAKER_05]: It is indeed.
[19:13.920 --> 19:16.100] [SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot of suction going on here.
[19:16.100 --> 19:17.280] [SPEAKER_05]: It's just like saying the word suction.
[19:17.320 --> 19:18.640] [SPEAKER_05]: I think we should do more of that on the radio.
[19:19.100 --> 19:19.340] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[19:19.500 --> 19:24.280] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I think we'll be doing a lot more of that in the months to come if current trends continue.
[19:24.960 --> 19:27.640] [SPEAKER_04]: But Alex, you haven't been here in a little while, I don't think.
[19:27.780 --> 19:27.940] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[19:28.120 --> 19:32.080] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I was here when you were away with Rob maybe about a month ago.
[19:32.300 --> 19:32.420] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[19:33.060 --> 19:34.560] [SPEAKER_04]: Usually here when I'm not here.
[19:34.780 --> 19:35.100] [SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
[19:35.260 --> 19:36.060] [SPEAKER_06]: I time it perfectly.
[19:36.300 --> 19:36.820] [SPEAKER_06]: There's a reason for that.
[19:36.940 --> 19:41.180] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I had to get you two here at the same time just to dispel the rumors that you were the same person.
[19:41.780 --> 19:42.320] [SPEAKER_06]: That's true.
[19:42.540 --> 19:43.780] [SPEAKER_06]: From behind, we do look alike.
[19:44.020 --> 19:46.580] [SPEAKER_04]: It's amazing the kinds of rumors you can get started.
[19:46.840 --> 19:50.080] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, let's get your impressions of hope since you were a big part of it as well.
[19:50.480 --> 19:51.240] [SPEAKER_06]: I loved it.
[19:51.340 --> 19:52.120] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm still recovering.
[19:52.360 --> 19:53.420] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm still fatigued.
[19:54.360 --> 19:56.160] [SPEAKER_06]: I think, you know, I had a great time.
[19:56.440 --> 19:57.120] [SPEAKER_06]: I had a great time.
[19:57.240 --> 19:59.760] [SPEAKER_06]: I really honestly, you know, I'm not just, you know, this isn't just fluff.
[19:59.860 --> 20:01.060] [SPEAKER_06]: I think this was the best hope ever.
[20:02.420 --> 20:12.860] [SPEAKER_06]: It felt to me like the original hope in a lot of respects because it's such a unique community of people that come there and I think you get there on Friday afternoon and everybody's a little bit shy.
[20:13.320 --> 20:15.960] [SPEAKER_06]: We're shy people, you know, by nature, right?
[20:16.120 --> 20:19.180] [SPEAKER_06]: It's somehow ingrained in our genes, a little bit of shyness, introversion.
[20:19.480 --> 20:28.060] [SPEAKER_06]: But by Saturday night, everybody's partying, everybody's garrulous and affable and, you know, and by Sunday afternoon everyone doesn't want to leave.
[20:28.240 --> 20:30.960] [SPEAKER_06]: It was a fantastic conference.
[20:31.280 --> 20:32.880] [SPEAKER_06]: It was a pleasure to participate.
[20:33.680 --> 20:38.160] [SPEAKER_06]: The social engineering panel when I got you was just, I think, the highlight.
[20:38.200 --> 20:39.340] [SPEAKER_06]: You think that was the highlight of it?
[20:39.340 --> 20:40.480] [SPEAKER_06]: I do, I do.
[20:40.480 --> 20:42.440] [SPEAKER_06]: I had a great time with the Panama Papers.
[20:42.580 --> 20:44.420] [SPEAKER_06]: Quick update from that, by the way.
[20:44.760 --> 20:52.760] [SPEAKER_06]: I was standing on 14th Street the other day and somebody comes walking past me and says, you're the guy who did the Panama Papers talk at Hope.
[20:52.760 --> 20:53.840] [SPEAKER_06]: That's kind of scary.
[20:54.120 --> 20:55.360] [SPEAKER_05]: It was a little scary.
[20:55.620 --> 20:55.860] [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[20:56.100 --> 20:57.960] [SPEAKER_05]: Was he wearing a suit and an earpiece and dark glasses?
[21:00.080 --> 21:03.960] [SPEAKER_06]: No, no, but it did perk my ears up quite a bit, actually.
[21:04.160 --> 21:05.280] [SPEAKER_06]: It was odd.
[21:05.460 --> 21:09.260] [SPEAKER_06]: But apparently I have a recognizable face for various reasons.
[21:09.560 --> 21:12.880] [SPEAKER_06]: But kind of a short update from the Panama Papers talk.
[21:12.880 --> 21:26.020] [SPEAKER_06]: One of the last things that I had discussed was that Mossack Fonseca in Panama through the MF Corporate Services and Limited Nevada Entity in the United States was being pursued for sanctions.
[21:26.500 --> 21:31.780] [SPEAKER_06]: Probably worth millions of dollars for the destruction of evidence and providing false testimony.
[21:31.980 --> 21:34.600] [SPEAKER_04]: You make that sound so exciting, but it's really just papers being filed, right?
[21:35.200 --> 21:36.620] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, papers being filed.
[21:36.920 --> 21:37.760] [SPEAKER_04]: Pursued for millions of dollars.
[21:37.860 --> 21:41.040] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's not somebody running down the street with, you know, chasing people.
[21:41.760 --> 21:42.880] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I guess that would be.
[21:42.960 --> 21:43.380] [SPEAKER_06]: That would be.
[21:43.560 --> 21:45.760] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, this is much more drawn out, unfortunately.
[21:46.120 --> 21:46.460] [SPEAKER_06]: And dry.
[21:46.820 --> 21:49.100] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's very, very much more dry.
[21:49.100 --> 22:03.040] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, we went into this during my talk, but the emails that we had discussed and put forward and on the screen for everybody to see were unredacted emails that we had personally translated from Spanish into English.
[22:04.500 --> 22:07.340] [SPEAKER_06]: But in the court filings, you know, they're all redacted.
[22:07.440 --> 22:10.760] [SPEAKER_06]: For some reason, they are all redacted, even though these are public documents.
[22:10.900 --> 22:13.960] [SPEAKER_06]: The court, for some reason, wanted these documents to be redacted.
[22:13.960 --> 22:24.500] [SPEAKER_06]: So, Mossack Fonseca was supposed to be filing their response to sanctions now, but both parties have consented to an adjournment of that date to August 11th.
[22:24.600 --> 22:40.980] [SPEAKER_06]: So, I think we're not going to see a decision on whether Mossack Fonseca is going to be hit with what I honestly believe is probably several millions of dollars of legal fees relating to NML Capital's expenditure on seven different motion sequences until,
[22:40.980 --> 22:44.440] [SPEAKER_06]: I think, mid-September, possibly October.
[22:44.820 --> 22:48.780] [SPEAKER_06]: But it's going to be very, very interesting because they closed up shop in the United States.
[22:49.000 --> 22:59.900] [SPEAKER_06]: They took themselves out of operation when it comes to being a registered agent for service of process for probably tens of thousands of corporations that they had formed for various purposes, some legal, some questionable.
[23:00.260 --> 23:05.380] [SPEAKER_06]: But we are going to see if Mossack Fonseca is going to get slapped by a U.S.
[23:05.500 --> 23:08.140] [SPEAKER_06]: court for the destruction of data very soon.
[23:08.260 --> 23:08.980] [SPEAKER_06]: It's going to be interesting.
[23:09.220 --> 23:10.180] [SPEAKER_06]: We'll talk about it.
[23:10.320 --> 23:12.220] [SPEAKER_05]: So, that's August 11th as in tomorrow.
[23:13.580 --> 23:14.720] [SPEAKER_06]: Actually, you know what?
[23:15.000 --> 23:15.880] [SPEAKER_06]: I think you're right.
[23:16.020 --> 23:16.160] [SPEAKER_06]: It is.
[23:16.780 --> 23:17.740] [SPEAKER_06]: No, it's tomorrow.
[23:17.920 --> 23:18.500] [SPEAKER_06]: Actually, yeah.
[23:18.660 --> 23:18.980] [SPEAKER_06]: Tomorrow.
[23:19.280 --> 23:19.660] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you need to get going?
[23:21.200 --> 23:21.600] [SPEAKER_06]: Tomorrow.
[23:22.000 --> 23:24.100] [SPEAKER_06]: Generally, people file these things right around midnight.
[23:24.380 --> 23:27.420] [SPEAKER_06]: So, yeah, the filing will come in tomorrow probably around midnight.
[23:27.820 --> 23:31.080] [SPEAKER_06]: We're going to scarf it up and maybe we can talk about it next week or the week thereafter.
[23:31.540 --> 23:35.020] [SPEAKER_05]: If people are interested in following all this for themselves, what's the best way to do that?
[23:35.680 --> 23:36.700] [SPEAKER_06]: That's a good question.
[23:37.000 --> 23:40.120] [SPEAKER_06]: The stuff isn't really out there in the mainstream media.
[23:41.180 --> 23:43.040] [SPEAKER_06]: It's very, very difficult to figure it out.
[23:43.180 --> 23:45.460] [SPEAKER_06]: I would say, you know, listen to WBAI.
[23:45.600 --> 23:46.440] [SPEAKER_06]: That's why we're here.
[23:46.900 --> 23:47.000] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[23:47.300 --> 23:48.900] [SPEAKER_06]: That's a pretty slick segue.
[23:49.040 --> 23:49.900] [SPEAKER_06]: Did you see what I did there?
[23:50.080 --> 23:50.280] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[23:50.580 --> 23:50.660] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[23:50.920 --> 23:53.200] [SPEAKER_06]: 516-620-3602.
[23:53.200 --> 23:54.220] [SPEAKER_06]: You won't hear it anywhere else.
[23:54.220 --> 23:57.340] [SPEAKER_04]: On that subject, I didn't know we were doing another fun drive.
[23:57.420 --> 23:57.740] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry.
[23:57.800 --> 24:01.900] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't mean to sound shocked, but it's the fourth week of the summer drive, which is supposed to be only two weeks.
[24:02.020 --> 24:05.680] [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, this fun drive is in danger of colliding with the next fun drive.
[24:05.940 --> 24:07.140] [SPEAKER_04]: That's really a concern.
[24:07.140 --> 24:09.060] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what happens if they overlap.
[24:10.160 --> 24:11.500] [SPEAKER_04]: But what Alex says is true.
[24:11.600 --> 24:13.600] [SPEAKER_04]: We do need the help, the support.
[24:13.780 --> 24:18.920] [SPEAKER_04]: The show before us did a really good job outlining all the things that we really need to fix in this place.
[24:19.580 --> 24:22.340] [SPEAKER_04]: Building a studio, for one thing, we seem to have forgotten that.
[24:22.440 --> 24:23.200] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we have a room.
[24:23.340 --> 24:23.820] [SPEAKER_04]: We're in a room.
[24:23.920 --> 24:25.120] [SPEAKER_04]: We can hear everybody walking by.
[24:25.240 --> 24:26.460] [SPEAKER_04]: We can hear airplanes flying over.
[24:27.240 --> 24:27.600] [SPEAKER_04]: Elevator.
[24:27.680 --> 24:28.880] [SPEAKER_04]: The elevator just arrived.
[24:28.880 --> 24:29.560] [SPEAKER_04]: I can hear that.
[24:30.300 --> 24:31.020] [SPEAKER_04]: It's insane.
[24:31.020 --> 24:32.060] [SPEAKER_04]: This is not a radio studio.
[24:32.260 --> 24:33.640] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a room in a building.
[24:33.760 --> 24:36.080] [SPEAKER_04]: A great building, but we need to build a radio studio.
[24:36.560 --> 24:37.680] [SPEAKER_04]: We need our phones back.
[24:37.860 --> 24:38.580] [SPEAKER_04]: We need our phones back.
[24:38.660 --> 24:41.960] [SPEAKER_04]: Now, last week, we had a bit of a problem when we tried to plug in our phone.
[24:42.440 --> 24:43.980] [SPEAKER_04]: But Kyle, we figured it out, right?
[24:44.100 --> 24:44.880] [SPEAKER_04]: I think we figured it out.
[24:44.960 --> 24:46.340] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that was my fault entirely.
[24:47.020 --> 24:53.440] [SPEAKER_03]: I should have picked another channel and been more confident about yanking a CD player or whatever has to be replaced.
[24:53.440 --> 24:55.900] [SPEAKER_04]: You should always be more confident about yanking wires around here.
[24:56.320 --> 25:00.240] [SPEAKER_04]: So we are going to be taking your phone calls, listeners, because we haven't forgotten about you.
[25:00.400 --> 25:07.920] [SPEAKER_04]: And on another subject, I know a lot of people have supported us in the past and we're so appreciative of that.
[25:08.060 --> 25:14.840] [SPEAKER_04]: And we are pretty upset that you have not been treated with the respect you deserve insofar as getting the premiums you pledged for.
[25:15.620 --> 25:17.720] [SPEAKER_04]: I've got a few letters I want to read.
[25:17.760 --> 25:19.000] [SPEAKER_04]: And I want to take some phone calls as well.
[25:19.260 --> 25:26.620] [SPEAKER_04]: All the same, though, I still want to encourage people to call and pledge support for the radio station because that is a fact.
[25:26.720 --> 25:27.620] [SPEAKER_04]: That's not going away.
[25:27.960 --> 25:29.180] [SPEAKER_04]: We do need the support.
[25:29.360 --> 25:30.540] [SPEAKER_04]: The station has to stay on the air.
[25:31.400 --> 25:34.700] [SPEAKER_04]: But that said, a lot has to be done better.
[25:35.020 --> 25:37.240] [SPEAKER_04]: We have to get the premiums out to people.
[25:37.880 --> 25:44.680] [SPEAKER_04]: We have to do a better job as far as accounting for funds and applying them in the right place.
[25:45.420 --> 25:47.260] [SPEAKER_04]: And things need to move forward.
[25:47.280 --> 25:49.140] [SPEAKER_04]: And that has not happened nearly enough.
[25:49.620 --> 25:54.860] [SPEAKER_04]: Here's a letter from Jim who says, how much postage does it take to mail a thumb drive?
[25:56.500 --> 25:57.680] [SPEAKER_04]: Good question, Jim.
[25:57.680 --> 26:02.520] [SPEAKER_04]: I know that they already charged you to mail the thumb drive and they didn't mail the thumb drive.
[26:02.920 --> 26:06.040] [SPEAKER_04]: They charged me extra for postage on top of the $75 donation.
[26:06.760 --> 26:10.360] [SPEAKER_04]: In reality, there's only one program on WBAI that I still listen to and that is off the hook.
[26:10.760 --> 26:16.880] [SPEAKER_04]: But sending money to WBAI these days seems futile since the station is so mismanaged and seems to have a management that wants the station to die.
[26:17.300 --> 26:20.460] [SPEAKER_04]: I listen to the PC show also, which is coming on after us, by the way.
[26:20.540 --> 26:23.900] [SPEAKER_04]: But those guys spend so much time arguing with each other and misunderstanding call the questions.
[26:23.920 --> 26:25.140] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't bother much of the time.
[26:25.540 --> 26:26.820] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, to each their own.
[26:26.820 --> 26:31.480] [SPEAKER_04]: Some people listen for exactly that reason and some people don't agree.
[26:31.820 --> 26:37.080] [SPEAKER_04]: And, well, the thing is, on WBAI, you can find all sorts of amazing listening experiences.
[26:37.260 --> 26:38.320] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what you're pledging for.
[26:38.480 --> 26:41.460] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what you're calling, 516-620-3602.
[26:41.580 --> 26:44.320] [SPEAKER_04]: And just saying, I want to keep the radio station on the air.
[26:45.020 --> 26:49.900] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't send me anything because I know that something's going to get messed up and it's not going to arrive anyway.
[26:50.080 --> 26:52.100] [SPEAKER_04]: So just pledge whatever you can afford.
[26:52.200 --> 26:53.040] [SPEAKER_04]: Become a WBAI buddy.
[26:53.040 --> 26:56.220] [SPEAKER_04]: That way it gets deducted once a month.
[26:56.440 --> 26:57.660] [SPEAKER_04]: Much lower rate.
[26:58.060 --> 26:59.000] [SPEAKER_03]: Recurring at that point.
[26:59.160 --> 27:03.920] [SPEAKER_03]: But this is a dire, important, exceptional emergency.
[27:04.380 --> 27:15.000] [SPEAKER_03]: I add your adjective, but this is crucial to the future, to moving forward and progressing with what the station will become.
[27:23.120 --> 27:32.260] [SPEAKER_03]: or take any of the premium gifts that the operator is able to describe to you.
[27:32.420 --> 27:35.960] [SPEAKER_03]: But really what matters is getting those calls right now.
[27:36.260 --> 27:39.180] [SPEAKER_03]: 516-620-3602.
[27:39.300 --> 27:44.640] [SPEAKER_05]: And do mention to the operator that you're calling to support Off The Hook in particular, as we hope you are.
[27:45.540 --> 27:46.300] [SPEAKER_04]: Ruben K.
[27:46.580 --> 27:50.060] [SPEAKER_04]: writes, Hi, Emmanuel, Kyle, Rob T. Firefly, Bernie S., anyone I may have forgotten.
[27:50.320 --> 27:52.760] [SPEAKER_04]: Listening to your show right now, I have a question for you.
[27:52.760 --> 27:55.920] [SPEAKER_04]: I read an article about Edward Snowden who said, it's time.
[27:56.120 --> 27:57.060] [SPEAKER_04]: I did see that quote.
[27:57.260 --> 27:59.080] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you guys have any insight for me?
[27:59.120 --> 28:00.220] [SPEAKER_04]: I think he wants to come home.
[28:00.400 --> 28:02.100] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I think he always did want to come home.
[28:02.720 --> 28:04.940] [SPEAKER_04]: Home has to be a place worth coming to.
[28:05.140 --> 28:22.340] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think if attitudes changed a little bit as far as those in charge and a dialogue could actually be started, I think he would be more than happy to come home and basically explain why he did what he did.
[28:22.760 --> 28:24.900] [SPEAKER_04]: And what it means and how things can be better.
[28:25.660 --> 28:31.660] [SPEAKER_04]: But if if the only thing that we're promising him is the inside of a prison cell, no, I don't think he's going to want to come home to that.
[28:31.780 --> 28:33.120] [SPEAKER_04]: So we have to change.
[28:33.400 --> 28:34.460] [SPEAKER_04]: We being the country.
[28:35.380 --> 28:41.580] [SPEAKER_04]: I donated to the Summer Fun Drive, which is the one that we were on last week and the one that we're doing this week.
[28:41.900 --> 28:44.380] [SPEAKER_04]: I've become a WBAI buddy for the first time.
[28:44.740 --> 28:48.860] [SPEAKER_04]: And of course, I mentioned your show within my list of shows, which I listen to and appreciate.
[28:48.860 --> 28:49.900] [SPEAKER_04]: So thank you, Ruben, for that.
[28:50.240 --> 28:52.740] [SPEAKER_04]: Also, my Hope Archives flash drive is MIA.
[28:52.740 --> 28:54.540] [SPEAKER_04]: I sent you the receipt before in the past.
[28:54.620 --> 28:55.720] [SPEAKER_04]: Let me know if I should resend it.
[28:56.000 --> 28:57.760] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, Ruben, we did receive that.
[28:57.860 --> 28:58.680] [SPEAKER_04]: We have it.
[28:58.840 --> 29:05.020] [SPEAKER_04]: We have dropped off the premiums to the radio station a while ago.
[29:05.680 --> 29:07.420] [SPEAKER_04]: And we know they have not been sent out.
[29:07.600 --> 29:10.700] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's a question that we need to have answered.
[29:10.700 --> 29:12.500] [SPEAKER_04]: We have asked all the appropriate people.
[29:13.620 --> 29:15.600] [SPEAKER_04]: It's something that's a serious problem here.
[29:15.780 --> 29:21.980] [SPEAKER_04]: It's something that is affecting this place in a very negative way because people don't call up and pledge if they are treated with disrespect.
[29:22.400 --> 29:23.680] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a fact.
[29:23.820 --> 29:25.260] [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't take much to figure that out.
[29:25.860 --> 29:26.880] [SPEAKER_04]: We've done our part.
[29:27.060 --> 29:28.260] [SPEAKER_04]: We've made the premiums.
[29:28.340 --> 29:28.880] [SPEAKER_04]: We've delivered them.
[29:29.420 --> 29:33.520] [SPEAKER_04]: The radio station has already charged you for the postage to send it.
[29:33.780 --> 29:34.960] [SPEAKER_04]: They need to send it.
[29:35.060 --> 29:36.680] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'll say this right now.
[29:36.680 --> 29:43.140] [SPEAKER_04]: We are not offering any new premiums until we hear back from each of the people that I'm reading from tonight saying, I got my premium.
[29:43.500 --> 29:45.820] [SPEAKER_04]: It might have taken a year and a half but I got my damn premium.
[29:47.880 --> 29:49.660] [SPEAKER_04]: We're not going to contribute to this.
[29:49.780 --> 29:53.280] [SPEAKER_04]: We're not going to contribute to any more people feeling disaffected.
[29:54.480 --> 29:56.680] [SPEAKER_04]: We do encourage people to call and pledge.
[29:57.220 --> 30:02.240] [SPEAKER_04]: And the radio station will remain on the air and that will be your premium and you'll feel good about that.
[30:02.580 --> 30:10.180] [SPEAKER_04]: But as far as us saying you're going to get something, knowing the odds are good that you're not going to get it, no, we're not going to participate in that.
[30:10.300 --> 30:11.680] [SPEAKER_04]: Not until this is fixed.
[30:11.680 --> 30:22.420] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we definitely want to clear up and get loose ends taken care of before we can move on because it is something that we volunteer to do.
[30:22.420 --> 30:33.140] [SPEAKER_03]: we take that on and we take that responsibility pretty seriously and we care about how our audience is left feeling.
[30:33.460 --> 30:53.240] [SPEAKER_03]: So, to that end, for us to do the work to find more interesting things to give as thank you gifts, it would not be advantageous for us to spend time doing that if we could not guarantee that stuff going forward is going to be handled carefully.
[30:53.600 --> 31:03.760] [SPEAKER_04]: Here's a letter from Jean Bernard, I heard you guys on the radio a while back, asking to email you with information on the premiums that were ordered as part of donating to WBAI if we did not already receive them.
[31:03.840 --> 31:05.960] [SPEAKER_04]: I have not received my Hope Archives thumb drive yet.
[31:06.620 --> 31:10.920] [SPEAKER_04]: And you know what, Jean Bernard, that letter that you sent us was actually re-sent to us.
[31:10.920 --> 31:12.080] [SPEAKER_04]: You sent it a second time.
[31:12.340 --> 31:13.840] [SPEAKER_04]: You originally sent it on May 18th.
[31:14.140 --> 31:16.060] [SPEAKER_04]: So this has been going on for a while.
[31:21.460 --> 31:23.940] [SPEAKER_04]: That is when we will resume offering premiums.
[31:24.000 --> 31:30.460] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean we have, Kyle and I have been working with some other people on the Hope videos from the most recent conference.
[31:30.620 --> 31:30.980] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah.
[31:31.400 --> 31:32.240] [SPEAKER_04]: Day and night.
[31:32.420 --> 31:33.620] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a lot of work.
[31:33.780 --> 31:42.020] [SPEAKER_04]: It's basically we have to salvage the video footage, improve upon it, work with people that have additional footage as well.
[31:42.220 --> 31:44.480] [SPEAKER_04]: We'll be talking more about that in weeks to come.
[31:44.800 --> 31:49.180] [SPEAKER_04]: But that is something that we have offered in the past as premiums here at the radio station.
[31:49.320 --> 31:50.060] [SPEAKER_04]: We're not doing that.
[31:50.160 --> 31:57.620] [SPEAKER_04]: Not doing that until we know that things are under control as far as getting the things to the people that pledge for them.
[31:57.720 --> 31:58.980] [SPEAKER_04]: It's that simple.
[31:59.720 --> 32:01.040] [SPEAKER_04]: Here's a letter from Robert.
[32:01.160 --> 32:02.740] [SPEAKER_04]: I was listening to the podcast today.
[32:02.900 --> 32:04.820] [SPEAKER_04]: Heard you guys asking for forwards.
[32:05.500 --> 32:08.000] [SPEAKER_04]: I have not yet received the flash drive.
[32:08.160 --> 32:09.700] [SPEAKER_04]: Hope to have this resolved soon.
[32:10.120 --> 32:14.300] [SPEAKER_04]: And he forwards a letter from November of 2015.
[32:14.980 --> 32:15.460] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[32:15.880 --> 32:17.020] [SPEAKER_04]: Almost a year ago.
[32:18.120 --> 32:21.540] [SPEAKER_04]: Richard writes here's my WBAI receipt also from November.
[32:21.780 --> 32:23.000] [SPEAKER_04]: I requested one of the thumb drives.
[32:23.200 --> 32:26.960] [SPEAKER_04]: To your point supporting the station is the main reason but it would be nice to get the premium.
[32:27.220 --> 32:30.160] [SPEAKER_04]: I agree with you Richard and Robert and everybody else.
[32:30.920 --> 32:34.560] [SPEAKER_04]: It's really it's inexcusable.
[32:35.240 --> 32:37.900] [SPEAKER_04]: Here's a letter we got today from Gabriel.
[32:38.860 --> 32:45.000] [SPEAKER_04]: Dear hackers makers of Off The Hook I write to you because I've donated money to WBAI to support Off The Hook way back in March.
[32:45.160 --> 32:46.520] [SPEAKER_04]: Still haven't received my premium.
[32:47.020 --> 32:54.840] [SPEAKER_04]: I gave $55 on the 10th of March 2016 on the website give2wbai.org selected the car hacker's handbook as a premium.
[32:55.200 --> 32:56.380] [SPEAKER_04]: PayPal as a payment method.
[32:56.660 --> 33:02.740] [SPEAKER_04]: Paid for the order immediately by PayPal but the order status page under my account says awaiting payment still.
[33:03.000 --> 33:04.000] [SPEAKER_04]: The money has been transferred.
[33:04.180 --> 33:05.680] [SPEAKER_04]: They've got it but the order isn't moving.
[33:05.940 --> 33:08.240] [SPEAKER_04]: I've written several emails to the general manager.
[33:08.360 --> 33:11.340] [SPEAKER_04]: The only contact I could find haven't received a single response so far.
[33:11.500 --> 33:14.020] [SPEAKER_04]: I am deeply frustrated and unhappy about this.
[33:14.260 --> 33:16.480] [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like I was taking advantage of and then ignored.
[33:16.760 --> 33:22.040] [SPEAKER_04]: This was the first time I supported WBAI and if they don't get this sorted out it will be the last time.
[33:22.640 --> 33:24.880] [SPEAKER_04]: That, my friends, is the mood out there.
[33:24.980 --> 33:27.900] [SPEAKER_04]: That is the mood we are fostering by not dealing with this.
[33:28.100 --> 33:30.020] [SPEAKER_04]: We have to get these premiums out.
[33:30.020 --> 33:31.460] [SPEAKER_04]: We have delivered the premium.
[33:31.560 --> 33:38.720] [SPEAKER_04]: Now, the Car Hacker's Handbook, actually we haven't the radio station has told us that nobody has pledged for that and I know that's not true.
[33:38.940 --> 33:40.620] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this is a numbers thing.
[33:40.940 --> 34:00.320] [SPEAKER_03]: Basically, we have those items and we need to get accurate numbers numbers that we can check because the first word we had when we checked about that premium was that no one had ordered it which to us is kind of jaw-dropping.
[34:00.480 --> 34:24.640] [SPEAKER_03]: It seems I mean maybe one maybe two it's sometimes people just aren't able to contribute in that particular fundraising period but we were a little surprised at that so that's the first one I've heard that we have There have been a few actually A few people have not gotten it because we've been told nobody asked for it and I know that's not true So that's a discrepancy between Somebody wrote
[34:24.640 --> 34:28.580] [SPEAKER_04]: something down wrong or didn't tell somebody else I don't know what the problem is.
[34:28.720 --> 34:38.300] [SPEAKER_04]: Guys, we gotta get our act together here We have those books though We have the books but what's the point of delivering them to the station if the station doesn't believe that anybody is owed the books?
[34:38.300 --> 34:57.200] [SPEAKER_04]: They're just gonna disappear into a black hole and then we don't have the books anymore These are the issues that have to be dealt with that have to be fixed and we're putting our foot down as far as this goes yes, support the station but no we're not participating in the premiums anymore until we figure out how to handle premiums It's not that hard Yeah,
[34:57.360 --> 35:22.100] [SPEAKER_03]: and this was basically a policy that we started after we cleaned out basically we found a lot of stuff that had been in that proverbial black hole and so to prevent stuff from accruing and sort of becoming piles of stuff here that doesn't actually get to people we want a verification process so that we know exactly how many to bring and that those people actually get them What I think we really
[35:22.100 --> 35:42.320] [SPEAKER_04]: need is a swarm of people to descend upon this place and volunteer time and skills and I mean there's no question the people here are overworked and underappreciated and I'm sure the last thing I want to hear is me complaining about all this but it's a legitimate complaint it's something that is hurting And if we had,
[35:42.380 --> 35:53.640] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, a flock of new people that were kind of more inspired, you know, to take these things on, then I think maybe it would get done.
[35:53.760 --> 35:54.740] [SPEAKER_04]: We'd have more enthusiasm.
[35:54.960 --> 35:55.640] [SPEAKER_04]: We'd have more support.
[35:55.820 --> 35:58.340] [SPEAKER_04]: We wouldn't be fundraising for the entire summer.
[35:58.540 --> 36:00.440] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I think that is what we need right now.
[36:00.440 --> 36:09.200] [SPEAKER_04]: So if you're interested in becoming a part of a massive community radio station that's in serious trouble, come on down.
[36:09.280 --> 36:10.280] [SPEAKER_04]: 388 Atlantic Avenue.
[36:10.380 --> 36:10.960] [SPEAKER_04]: That's our address.
[36:11.360 --> 36:13.700] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure they can put you to work right away.
[36:14.540 --> 36:17.060] [SPEAKER_04]: Write to us, oth@2600.com.
[36:17.200 --> 36:18.140] [SPEAKER_04]: We can probably give you more information.
[36:18.560 --> 36:19.380] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, absolutely.
[36:19.600 --> 36:24.940] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, the real important thing here is that we're not just here complaining about terrible things.
[36:25.100 --> 36:26.700] [SPEAKER_05]: We're not just here complaining that things aren't getting done.
[36:26.800 --> 36:29.980] [SPEAKER_05]: Things aren't getting done, but we believe it's worth rescuing.
[36:29.980 --> 36:30.920] [SPEAKER_05]: We believe it's worth saving.
[36:31.040 --> 36:31.920] [SPEAKER_05]: We believe it's worth fixing.
[36:32.060 --> 36:33.740] [SPEAKER_05]: None of us would be here if we didn't believe that.
[36:34.580 --> 36:49.860] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's only by your support, by calling 516-620-3602 or going to give2wbai.org and showing your support that there's any possibility of us continuing and getting this back up on its feet and doing what we should do for you, the listeners.
[36:49.860 --> 36:50.400] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[36:51.500 --> 36:57.600] [SPEAKER_03]: 516-620-3602 or give2wbai.org.
[36:57.840 --> 36:59.320] [SPEAKER_03]: Make your donation.
[36:59.600 --> 37:04.800] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's a great suggestion, E, that you don't always have to support financially.
[37:04.800 --> 37:26.940] [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, maybe a contribution of $5, maybe becoming a WBAI buddy is too much for you right now, but you have time, you have energy, you have ideas for how to participate in an organization like this and really be a part of affecting what it becomes.
[37:26.940 --> 37:35.180] [SPEAKER_03]: As I said earlier, what the station transitions into during this sort of tumultuous time here with the move and rebuilding.
[37:35.500 --> 37:41.240] [SPEAKER_04]: We've had such frustration just trying to get the basics done as far as just being able to put a show together.
[37:41.680 --> 37:50.240] [SPEAKER_04]: And having the phone cut off, that's like the last straw, really, because now we can't have phone guests, although Robbie were able to do that through Skype.
[37:50.240 --> 37:59.340] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's not a good replacement for a phone line where there aren't dropouts and, you know, where it's a lot easier and where people can contact you in a much easier way.
[37:59.460 --> 38:03.600] [SPEAKER_04]: So we have put together a method, which people have already been taking advantage of.
[38:04.200 --> 38:09.920] [SPEAKER_04]: We didn't give out the phone number yet, but people have already called it and, you know, they figured this out.
[38:09.980 --> 38:11.120] [SPEAKER_04]: We didn't tell them this was even possible.
[38:11.240 --> 38:12.180] [SPEAKER_04]: They've been texting it.
[38:12.400 --> 38:12.780] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, really?
[38:12.780 --> 38:13.020] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[38:13.340 --> 38:16.240] [SPEAKER_04]: You can text this number that we've put together.
[38:16.520 --> 38:20.040] [SPEAKER_04]: Only during this hour, though, because we disconnected after the show.
[38:20.980 --> 38:22.300] [SPEAKER_04]: And you can't do it then.
[38:22.340 --> 38:22.940] [SPEAKER_04]: And people have been texting.
[38:23.100 --> 38:24.320] [SPEAKER_04]: A couple of texts that we got.
[38:25.220 --> 38:27.180] [SPEAKER_04]: This is from...
[38:27.940 --> 38:29.940] [SPEAKER_03]: That'd be cool if we write SMS on the air.
[38:30.060 --> 38:32.920] [SPEAKER_03]: We should set up a short code specifically for the show.
[38:33.040 --> 38:33.840] [SPEAKER_04]: This is from Michael.
[38:34.000 --> 38:35.720] [SPEAKER_04]: I sent $75 for Off The Hook.
[38:36.580 --> 38:37.980] [SPEAKER_04]: There's his receipt right there.
[38:38.080 --> 38:41.420] [SPEAKER_04]: Premium is a thumb drive again with the Hope Conference, Hope X.
[38:42.240 --> 38:45.040] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's Michael over there in the Bronx.
[38:46.820 --> 38:48.120] [SPEAKER_04]: And let's see...
[38:48.120 --> 38:51.660] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, more texts like that, basically, people saying things.
[38:51.740 --> 38:57.400] [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of administrative topics, right along with the theme of what we're talking about here.
[38:57.520 --> 39:02.780] [SPEAKER_04]: We are going to try and take listener phone calls, even though we don't have a phone line, because we're hackers, and that's the kind of thing we try and do.
[39:03.060 --> 39:04.100] [SPEAKER_04]: We tried it last week.
[39:04.180 --> 39:05.080] [SPEAKER_04]: We didn't have any setup time.
[39:05.240 --> 39:06.580] [SPEAKER_04]: Now we have some setup time.
[39:06.680 --> 39:07.740] [SPEAKER_03]: It should be right over there.
[39:07.780 --> 39:09.100] [SPEAKER_04]: What channel is this going to come up on?
[39:09.100 --> 39:09.840] [SPEAKER_03]: It's CD1.
[39:09.840 --> 39:11.560] [SPEAKER_03]: I think the furthest left blue one.
[39:11.620 --> 39:11.880] [SPEAKER_03]: This one?
[39:11.980 --> 39:12.180] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[39:12.400 --> 39:12.540] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[39:13.180 --> 39:15.040] [SPEAKER_04]: And that button doesn't have to be pressed down or anything?
[39:15.160 --> 39:17.240] [SPEAKER_03]: It might be, and you might have to turn up...
[39:17.240 --> 39:17.500] [SPEAKER_03]: That doesn't have to be pressed down.
[39:17.500 --> 39:18.720] [SPEAKER_03]: You might have to turn up the gain.
[39:18.760 --> 39:20.320] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I know I have to turn up the gain.
[39:20.740 --> 39:21.060] [SPEAKER_04]: That's...
[39:21.060 --> 39:23.500] [SPEAKER_03]: No, but it needs to be... it likes to be boosted.
[39:23.600 --> 39:24.120] [SPEAKER_04]: You mean up there?
[39:24.220 --> 39:24.380] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[39:24.480 --> 39:24.920] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, really?
[39:25.180 --> 39:33.140] [SPEAKER_04]: Here's the phone number, and if there's a listener out there who wants to be the first call and see if we can get you on the air, 331-223-WBAI.
[39:33.200 --> 39:36.280] [SPEAKER_04]: That's 331-223-9224.
[39:37.380 --> 39:43.020] [SPEAKER_04]: And hopefully we can make a little history here and take a phone call where there are no phone lines.
[39:43.780 --> 39:48.600] [SPEAKER_04]: Those of you who just want to pledge, the number for that, 516-620-3602.
[39:48.700 --> 39:54.340] [SPEAKER_04]: Again, we can't emphasize enough the importance of calling, keeping this place on the air, because once it's gone, it's gone.
[39:54.400 --> 39:55.240] [SPEAKER_04]: It's not coming back.
[39:55.240 --> 39:57.120] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, that's really important.
[39:57.120 --> 39:59.840] [SPEAKER_04]: We have a phone call from southern New Jersey.
[39:59.840 --> 40:02.340] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's see if we can get this to work.
[40:03.620 --> 40:04.060] [SPEAKER_04]: Hello?
[40:04.280 --> 40:05.200] [SPEAKER_04]: Can you hear us?
[40:06.000 --> 40:06.540] I can.
[40:06.680 --> 40:07.180] [SPEAKER_10]: Can you hear me?
[40:07.420 --> 40:09.480] [SPEAKER_04]: I can hear this person a little bit.
[40:09.620 --> 40:10.160] [SPEAKER_04]: Hold on a second.
[40:10.360 --> 40:11.180] [SPEAKER_04]: Let me turn that up.
[40:12.140 --> 40:12.900] [SPEAKER_04]: Keep speaking.
[40:14.160 --> 40:15.000] [SPEAKER_04]: How am I now?
[40:15.480 --> 40:16.280] [SPEAKER_04]: Pretty low.
[40:16.860 --> 40:17.540] [SPEAKER_04]: Kyle, any ideas?
[40:17.860 --> 40:19.660] [SPEAKER_03]: Try the volume on the phone.
[40:19.860 --> 40:21.360] [SPEAKER_04]: The cell phone is all the way up.
[40:21.460 --> 40:21.900] [SPEAKER_03]: The handset?
[40:22.000 --> 40:22.220] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[40:22.640 --> 40:23.700] [SPEAKER_04]: Should I mess with these?
[40:25.240 --> 40:28.520] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I think that's about as much as we can hope for.
[40:28.620 --> 40:29.280] [SPEAKER_04]: It's pretty awful.
[40:29.600 --> 40:31.440] [SPEAKER_04]: Can you keep talking, please?
[40:31.600 --> 40:32.080] [SPEAKER_04]: There might be...
[40:34.040 --> 40:34.480] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry.
[40:34.500 --> 40:34.800] [SPEAKER_04]: Say again?
[40:35.540 --> 40:38.160] [SPEAKER_10]: I was going to say, what if I try to speak louder on my end?
[40:38.300 --> 40:41.140] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, if you do that, I'm turning these dials I've never touched before.
[40:41.260 --> 40:41.980] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that one's good.
[40:42.180 --> 40:44.580] [SPEAKER_05]: So if you've ever wanted to call and shout at us, there was the time.
[40:44.700 --> 40:45.100] [SPEAKER_04]: We're all set.
[40:45.300 --> 40:45.500] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[40:45.600 --> 40:46.040] [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead.
[40:46.080 --> 40:46.580] [SPEAKER_04]: What's on your mind?
[40:47.720 --> 40:51.020] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I just had a small bit of hope feedback as well as a question.
[40:51.360 --> 40:52.180] [SPEAKER_02]: Which would you prefer?
[40:52.860 --> 40:53.980] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's start with the hope feedback.
[40:54.780 --> 40:55.420] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sure.
[40:55.580 --> 40:56.800] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I had a great time.
[40:58.400 --> 41:00.920] [SPEAKER_02]: Really, there's not much I feel like I could improve on.
[41:01.120 --> 41:07.140] [SPEAKER_02]: I really love that you guys did a sort of like more casual hacking competition.
[41:08.200 --> 41:15.400] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that the value of that is, ordinarily I'd be too intimidated to participate, and I participated in that, and it was a lot of fun.
[41:17.240 --> 41:19.620] [SPEAKER_02]: That was the EFF one.
[41:20.000 --> 41:26.720] [SPEAKER_03]: I believe this is the capture the flag competition, or event, basically, that occurred at the conference.
[41:27.020 --> 41:29.160] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure exactly what floor that was on.
[41:30.000 --> 41:32.840] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm looking right at my fresh new YubiKey.
[41:32.960 --> 41:33.580] [SPEAKER_02]: Really enjoy it.
[41:34.920 --> 41:46.020] [SPEAKER_02]: But the one bit of constructive feedback I've got is, it'd be really cool if there was some sort of social media or message board that hope attendees could use before, during, and after.
[41:46.280 --> 41:49.540] [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe connect for like impromptu things, that sort of thing.
[41:50.020 --> 41:51.480] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a brilliant idea.
[41:51.680 --> 41:52.920] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we've tried that in the past.
[41:53.040 --> 41:59.720] [SPEAKER_03]: The only difficulty with that is, you get influxes, waves of a lot of spam sometimes.
[42:00.440 --> 42:06.840] [SPEAKER_03]: We've had forums and so on in the past, but the other thing is deciding or settling on which format.
[42:07.040 --> 42:07.880] [SPEAKER_03]: What is it going to be?
[42:08.000 --> 42:08.820] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it going to be IRC?
[42:08.920 --> 42:09.440] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it going to be this?
[42:09.520 --> 42:09.960] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it going to be that?
[42:10.040 --> 42:10.500] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it going to be Slack?
[42:10.500 --> 42:11.040] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, all formats.
[42:11.200 --> 42:11.960] [SPEAKER_04]: We use everything.
[42:12.120 --> 42:12.900] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what we should do.
[42:12.900 --> 42:16.240] [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be my fork of Slack, and yeah, I'm going to do this.
[42:16.260 --> 42:21.880] [SPEAKER_04]: But if we're going to do that, we need more people to just manage that, because we are taxed to the limit.
[42:21.880 --> 42:41.360] [SPEAKER_03]: But I will say, we can look into this and talk about it, and maybe read through some of the other feedback, because in the future, I think we're going to have a lot more capability to work on things like that, like integrating our web and software teams with the conference organizing teams.
[42:41.900 --> 42:42.400] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[42:42.680 --> 42:59.280] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this was something I thought a bit about last year, obviously the year before, where some of the rooms were at capacity for Ed Snowden, and a friend of mine just happened to have a projector at the hotel, so we set like an impromptu thing up in the mezzanine,
[42:59.500 --> 43:02.400] [SPEAKER_02]: and sort of struggled to get the word out.
[43:02.880 --> 43:03.420] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure, sure.
[43:03.480 --> 43:06.600] [SPEAKER_02]: And we were thinking, like, oh, that would have been so cool to get the word out.
[43:07.160 --> 43:08.480] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, that was really my point.
[43:08.480 --> 43:11.560] [SPEAKER_04]: And you notice now we're doing that on a regular basis.
[43:11.560 --> 43:15.520] [SPEAKER_04]: We have that overflow area in the mezzanine, so people can always go and see something.
[43:15.520 --> 43:18.340] [SPEAKER_04]: So we kind of adapt as we go along.
[43:18.820 --> 43:19.300] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[43:19.300 --> 43:22.420] [SPEAKER_02]: And I got to say, it felt really cool.
[43:22.640 --> 43:24.960] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it was a relatively minor thing that we did.
[43:25.080 --> 43:27.640] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, we set a projector and a speaker up, no big deal.
[43:28.420 --> 43:36.600] [SPEAKER_02]: But, like, we're very shy people in nature, and it felt really good to participate, you know, to contribute something, right?
[43:37.740 --> 43:41.400] [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know, it was a feeling like none other in my life.
[43:41.500 --> 43:42.820] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no, I hear that.
[43:42.820 --> 43:50.100] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, absolutely, that's something that I've heard many times from Hope volunteers, that they want to get involved and be a part of it.
[43:50.200 --> 43:52.740] [SPEAKER_04]: And they are such a big part of it, as are all the attendees.
[43:53.020 --> 44:01.280] [SPEAKER_04]: But to actually find yourself working side by side with so many other people to make the magic happen, that's something that it's almost indescribable.
[44:01.840 --> 44:02.960] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I agree.
[44:03.220 --> 44:08.880] [SPEAKER_02]: And it wasn't even that we had volunteered, it was just, oh, hey, there's a situation, maybe we can help.
[44:09.020 --> 44:09.880] [SPEAKER_02]: We have a projector.
[44:10.240 --> 44:15.160] [SPEAKER_02]: And just the organic nature of that was, I don't know, it felt really good.
[44:16.080 --> 44:22.980] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's what made me think, like, oh, it would have been cool to have, I don't know, some sort of sanction, maybe a subreddit.
[44:23.120 --> 44:23.460] [SPEAKER_02]: Who knows?
[44:23.960 --> 44:26.200] [SPEAKER_03]: Right, right, a message board of some kind.
[44:26.280 --> 44:28.880] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I think that's a fair comment.
[44:29.080 --> 44:42.540] [SPEAKER_03]: And it certainly is, I mean, that spirit of hacking, I would certainly, I would encourage you, if you have time in the future at an event, to volunteer, because we do need a lot of hands on deck, so to speak, and we really appreciate that help.
[44:42.580 --> 44:49.160] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's a great way to perpetuate that kind of, that great feeling of being able to contribute something and socialize.
[44:49.160 --> 44:54.780] [SPEAKER_04]: And we just, we have just under two years to organize the next one, so now's the time to start talking about it.
[44:54.800 --> 44:54.920] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's a fair point.
[44:55.180 --> 44:55.440] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[44:55.680 --> 44:59.220] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, maybe I'll shoot you guys an email, but I did call with a question.
[44:59.380 --> 44:59.860] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, go ahead.
[45:00.000 --> 45:07.560] [SPEAKER_02]: I have something on my mind that, sorry if I'm taking up too much air time here, but I'm so curious what you guys think about this.
[45:07.820 --> 45:30.340] [SPEAKER_02]: So every time I leave Hope, I'm always geared up and I want to be involved, and not just with Hope, or just plenty of our, the various causes that hackers in general are going to find important, but, sorry, I'm just really just curious, where do you see the role of the average everyday hacker trying to get the message forward,
[45:30.820 --> 45:31.160] [SPEAKER_02]: right?
[45:31.160 --> 45:37.160] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I saw some talks about crypto parties and stuff like that, and I was just curious what your take on that stuff was.
[45:37.540 --> 45:40.740] [SPEAKER_02]: What can the average Joe in suburbia do?
[45:40.740 --> 46:00.580] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the short answer for me, I would say, is absolutely act locally, and be a bit of an evangelist, be a diplomat for hacking, because there's a lot of people that don't, quote, get it, and that are not from the community, and you find that you've got to realize that you are insulated to a degree if you only hang out with hackers.
[46:00.760 --> 46:10.100] [SPEAKER_03]: So definitely share your positive experiences and mix it up with other scenes, like the making and bio or whatever other areas that might interest you.
[46:10.280 --> 46:13.480] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's all about communications, all about, as Kyle says, spreading the word.
[46:13.640 --> 46:14.000] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, totally.
[46:14.160 --> 46:16.040] [SPEAKER_05]: And keep the momentum going.
[46:16.220 --> 46:19.380] [SPEAKER_05]: After Hope, check out, if you haven't already, your local 2600 meeting.
[46:19.520 --> 46:22.860] [SPEAKER_05]: If you don't have a local 2600 meeting, you could make a local 2600 meeting.
[46:23.220 --> 46:29.960] [SPEAKER_05]: All that info is on 2600.com/meetings, and it's a great way to get things going in your local area and see where it goes.
[46:29.960 --> 46:37.720] [SPEAKER_05]: Because, I mean, so many awesome things have been a product of those meetings, of other meetings, other meetups, technology-related meetups.
[46:37.800 --> 46:39.460] [SPEAKER_05]: Just see what's going on in your local area.
[46:39.620 --> 46:42.380] [SPEAKER_04]: You're from southern New Jersey, I believe, according to your caller ID.
[46:42.580 --> 46:47.120] [SPEAKER_04]: So that means you can go to the Philadelphia meeting or the New York meeting, or that might be a New Jersey meeting.
[46:47.360 --> 46:51.700] [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, we're going to move on because there was another call coming in from somebody with an unknown caller ID.
[46:51.860 --> 46:52.480] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm kind of curious.
[46:53.160 --> 46:54.300] [SPEAKER_04]: Hello, unknown caller.
[46:54.840 --> 46:55.620] [SPEAKER_04]: You're on the air.
[46:55.720 --> 46:56.080] [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead.
[46:57.280 --> 46:58.240] [SPEAKER_11]: Hi, my name is Doug.
[46:58.340 --> 46:58.800] [SPEAKER_11]: Can you hear me?
[46:58.800 --> 47:02.300] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, we can hear you fine, except only on one channel, but that's not your fault.
[47:02.380 --> 47:02.860] [SPEAKER_04]: That's our fault.
[47:03.800 --> 47:07.960] [SPEAKER_11]: All righty, I'll try and be lucid and clear and brief.
[47:08.580 --> 47:11.940] [SPEAKER_11]: My journey started back in March of 2014.
[47:12.920 --> 47:19.920] [SPEAKER_11]: I donated $100 for a rock and roll show that was being held on Saturday night and never received a premium.
[47:20.580 --> 47:28.160] [SPEAKER_11]: On March 8th, I donated another $95 for a book, No Place to Hide.
[47:28.160 --> 47:31.120] [SPEAKER_11]: By Glenn Greenwald, which was quite the thing there.
[47:31.260 --> 47:34.240] [SPEAKER_11]: Talked about Mr. Snowden's journey and so on.
[47:34.960 --> 47:38.720] [SPEAKER_11]: And five days later, I contributed another $200.
[47:41.280 --> 47:50.100] [SPEAKER_11]: Basically, never got the premiums, got involved, tried to talk to people, never got through multiple phone numbers, never anyone answering them.
[47:50.580 --> 47:57.540] [SPEAKER_11]: When I was able to get through on an occasional time where they leave the message board, they'd say, the message board is filled, you can't get through.
[47:57.840 --> 47:59.820] [SPEAKER_11]: I spoke to Mike Haskins several times.
[47:59.920 --> 48:02.900] [SPEAKER_11]: He actually called me back, tried to get something going, but never came through.
[48:03.300 --> 48:06.060] [SPEAKER_11]: He actually gave me Burt Reinhold's personal number.
[48:06.260 --> 48:07.820] [SPEAKER_11]: I spoke to him several times.
[48:07.980 --> 48:12.440] [SPEAKER_11]: He was always going to involve in something, always going to get back to me, was aware of the problem.
[48:12.660 --> 48:21.720] [SPEAKER_11]: He managed to get me one premium, but I'm still old three more, including recently in May 21st, 2016, backroom deal for the 1%.
[48:22.780 --> 48:25.220] [SPEAKER_11]: He said he was going to get right back to me, spoke to him.
[48:25.420 --> 48:27.600] [SPEAKER_11]: He said, he's speaking to the guy right now.
[48:27.700 --> 48:28.700] [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, he just stepped out.
[48:28.800 --> 48:29.480] [SPEAKER_11]: He'll be right back.
[48:29.580 --> 48:30.240] [SPEAKER_11]: I'll call you back.
[48:30.440 --> 48:31.040] [SPEAKER_11]: Never did.
[48:31.280 --> 48:32.420] [SPEAKER_11]: This goes on and on.
[48:32.640 --> 48:36.680] [SPEAKER_11]: I finally just called up somebody out of frustration on the 516 number to donate.
[48:36.840 --> 48:39.480] [SPEAKER_11]: I said, I'd like to leave a message here because I don't use the Internet.
[48:39.480 --> 48:40.440] [SPEAKER_11]: I only have a phone.
[48:40.820 --> 48:49.400] [SPEAKER_11]: I said, I'd just like you to know that most people probably view you as home shopping network that never delivers, and that's the frustration that's gone on with me.
[48:49.520 --> 48:54.640] [SPEAKER_11]: I've contributed over $500 over these other premiums here, and I've been a long-time supporter.
[48:54.840 --> 49:00.100] [SPEAKER_11]: But I'm just frustrated because I feel like I'm being really abused by the station.
[49:00.320 --> 49:02.200] [SPEAKER_11]: They're promising things and never delivering.
[49:02.420 --> 49:07.680] [SPEAKER_11]: So I'm glad to hear, as I turn on the station now in the middle of a program, that you guys are trying to do something.
[49:07.960 --> 49:16.280] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'm glad you got to express that, and I think you're speaking for a lot of listeners, and I think maybe this will show the level of support.
[49:16.420 --> 49:17.360] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you kept calling back.
[49:17.360 --> 49:18.200] [SPEAKER_04]: You kept supporting.
[49:18.440 --> 49:26.280] [SPEAKER_04]: You almost sound like you're addicted to WBAI because you keep giving us more, and we keep hurting you in exchange for that.
[49:26.600 --> 49:30.860] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's the kind of dedication.
[49:31.660 --> 49:41.340] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not saying that's the kind of dedication we want to encourage because we want people to feel appreciated, but you have the right spirit as far as wanting to keep this place going, and you're being betrayed.
[49:41.580 --> 49:44.320] [SPEAKER_04]: And we feel that, and we are so sorry this is happening.
[49:44.520 --> 49:50.100] [SPEAKER_04]: We're doing everything we can to try and fix this, and hopefully this dialogue is one step in that direction.
[49:52.200 --> 49:56.680] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it's nice to hear that somebody's actually involved and seems to be trying to do something.
[49:56.800 --> 49:57.500] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know, though.
[49:57.680 --> 50:03.380] [SPEAKER_11]: It seems like you guys are very disorganized there, and nobody seems to be in charge or in authority.
[50:03.380 --> 50:09.820] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I spoke to Burt Reinhold while he was sitting in the room with all these things piled up, he said, and he was going to get right back to me.
[50:10.000 --> 50:12.540] [SPEAKER_11]: He managed to get me the Gary Knowles thing for $95.
[50:13.480 --> 50:24.460] [SPEAKER_11]: We never came to an agreement on the Glenn Greenwald thing, which during the time span, I said I got frustrated, and I went and bought the book myself, but I was owed two CDs, and he was going to try and do something about that.
[50:24.600 --> 50:27.280] [SPEAKER_11]: The rock and roll thing, he said he's speaking to the guy.
[50:27.400 --> 50:28.480] [SPEAKER_11]: I actually spoke to him.
[50:28.520 --> 50:29.800] [SPEAKER_11]: He says, yeah, I've got your number from Burt.
[50:29.900 --> 50:30.620] [SPEAKER_11]: He, I'll call you back.
[50:30.620 --> 50:35.360] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, he does the show on Friday and Saturday and Sunday nights there, and he never got back to me.
[50:35.660 --> 50:41.840] [SPEAKER_11]: And then the last thing, Burt was going to get back to me on this last thing, backroom deal for 1%, the recent donation that I gave in May of this year.
[50:41.900 --> 50:46.700] [SPEAKER_04]: And you can see from the premiums you're listing, these are premiums that Off The Hook does not offer.
[50:46.700 --> 50:50.840] [SPEAKER_04]: It just shows that this is a problem that's systemic across the entire station.
[50:51.120 --> 51:07.120] [SPEAKER_04]: And when you say, you know, you guys seem disorganized, you know, we, Off The Hook, we're disorganized in our own way, but we're not a part of this disorganization, because what we do is we offer the premiums, we bring the premiums in, and that's really the extent of it as far as everything that we can do.
[51:07.860 --> 51:16.580] [SPEAKER_04]: There is another organization at the station that's supposed to be involved with sending all this out, processing it, and that's where the breakdown is occurring.
[51:16.740 --> 51:22.220] [SPEAKER_04]: Now, we're a part of the problem, I realize, by contributing premiums that never get delivered.
[51:22.220 --> 51:25.100] [SPEAKER_04]: That's why we're stopping that until this is resolved.
[51:25.940 --> 51:31.180] [SPEAKER_04]: But we feel your pain and we feel your frustration, and we really hope we can get this resolved.
[51:31.180 --> 51:34.900] [SPEAKER_11]: I spoke to Amy Goodman about this, because, what do you call it?
[51:35.020 --> 51:39.020] [SPEAKER_11]: I said, you know, you really seem to be flying a force-flared operation there.
[51:39.060 --> 51:40.920] [SPEAKER_11]: You're going on promoting this.
[51:41.300 --> 51:52.140] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, her desperate pleas really ensconced me out of about $300 at one point over a five-day period, because, you know, the station seems so desperate.
[51:52.380 --> 51:58.940] [SPEAKER_11]: Even this year, against my better judgment, when they sounded so desperate again, I said, all right, you know, I'll do this and the rest of it.
[51:58.940 --> 52:09.900] [SPEAKER_11]: And I tried to impress, I had a long conversation one time with Brett Reinhold, and I said, listen, in your flowchart, in your, you know, flowchart of operations, I said, this has to be paramount.
[52:10.100 --> 52:19.620] [SPEAKER_11]: I said, I'm a very forgiving guy, and I'm sorry if I'm sounding so visceral even now, but it just seems that people are just ignoring their obligations and their duties.
[52:19.740 --> 52:22.140] [SPEAKER_11]: I said, you have no credence whatsoever.
[52:22.540 --> 52:30.500] [SPEAKER_11]: If I am this frustrated, and yet I continue to give and be abused now for the last two and a half years, imagine what's going on out there.
[52:30.920 --> 52:34.360] [SPEAKER_11]: You've got to necessitate putting this as priority number one.
[52:34.580 --> 52:41.120] [SPEAKER_11]: Get these things out, give your station some credence, so people don't feel like they're involved in some sort of three-card money game here.
[52:41.320 --> 52:44.740] [SPEAKER_11]: And he expressed to me, oh, it's very important, and that's what I'm going to do.
[52:44.980 --> 52:47.380] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that was, you know, two and a half months ago.
[52:47.380 --> 52:48.420] [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, yeah.
[52:48.600 --> 52:59.700] [SPEAKER_04]: The thing is, multiply it by a couple of hundred people saying the same thing, and it's inevitable people are going to feel like their specific needs are not being addressed, not to, you know, negate them at all.
[53:00.160 --> 53:07.980] [SPEAKER_04]: But this is a problem that is almost out of control, and we really need to apply some additional help to get this resolved.
[53:08.340 --> 53:08.800] Yeah.
[53:08.980 --> 53:23.880] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the finances and fundraising itself is definitely a huge goal, but we also want to be able to improve some of these processes and keep the integrity and the reputation of the station intact, as it should be.
[53:23.980 --> 53:34.280] [SPEAKER_03]: We want to honor our word and make sure that our listeners are working with an entity that is doing the same.
[53:34.840 --> 53:43.180] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I appreciate that, but somebody somewhere along the line should speak to the board and get in touch and get a different general manager.
[53:43.280 --> 53:44.200] [SPEAKER_11]: I have to say this.
[53:44.700 --> 53:53.040] [SPEAKER_11]: Mr. Reinhold and Mr. Haskins have been very, you know, affable and understanding and sympathetic, empathetic, you say what you will.
[53:53.280 --> 53:56.220] [SPEAKER_11]: But yet, you know, where the rubber hits the road, it's not happening.
[53:56.380 --> 54:09.740] [SPEAKER_11]: And if you have somebody there who is in charge, who cannot at least do this, I mean, the man was actually, the last time I spoke to him in depth, was sitting in a room with these objects in front of him, and he could not find a way to, as a long conversation,
[54:09.920 --> 54:13.980] [SPEAKER_11]: but knowing that I had his personal number, he could still not find a way to get this out the door.
[54:14.260 --> 54:15.800] [SPEAKER_11]: So what does that say about him?
[54:16.000 --> 54:19.040] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, what does it say about all of us as far as this whole organization?
[54:19.160 --> 54:22.260] [SPEAKER_04]: We need a revolution here is what we basically need.
[54:22.480 --> 54:25.420] [SPEAKER_04]: And I hear you, sir, and I hope we can get this...
[54:25.420 --> 54:26.760] [SPEAKER_11]: Kurt Reinhold is the general manager.
[54:26.960 --> 54:27.260] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[54:27.500 --> 54:29.600] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'm not pointing to any specific people.
[54:30.020 --> 54:31.120] [SPEAKER_04]: I'd rather avoid that.
[54:31.220 --> 54:32.020] [SPEAKER_11]: He's getting it out the door.
[54:33.440 --> 54:35.680] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm saying if he's sitting there, he's the general manager.
[54:35.900 --> 54:36.700] [SPEAKER_11]: He's in charge.
[54:36.980 --> 54:39.000] [SPEAKER_11]: He's the top gun, so to speak.
[54:39.260 --> 54:43.940] [SPEAKER_11]: And he's sitting there, and he still doesn't have the wherewithal to be able to get these things out the door.
[54:44.060 --> 54:53.060] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, again, you know, not to defend anybody, but if he doesn't have access to the right database to know that it's going to the proper person, I don't know.
[54:53.140 --> 54:53.920] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know the specifics.
[54:54.700 --> 54:57.000] [SPEAKER_04]: But we need to organize that.
[54:57.040 --> 54:59.560] [SPEAKER_04]: We need to have a lot more people involved.
[54:59.780 --> 55:04.460] [SPEAKER_04]: And listen, I'd like to try and take one more phone call, but we're on this.
[55:04.460 --> 55:05.880] [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to work as hard as we can.
[55:06.340 --> 55:06.540] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[55:06.700 --> 55:06.940] [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks.
[55:07.080 --> 55:07.820] [SPEAKER_11]: I wish you a lot of luck.
[55:07.860 --> 55:08.300] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[55:08.560 --> 55:12.920] [SPEAKER_11]: And I'll wait in the bay and fear, but at this point, the well has run dry.
[55:13.180 --> 55:15.400] [SPEAKER_11]: You know, there's the old once, twice, shame on me.
[55:15.400 --> 55:15.520] [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[55:15.580 --> 55:16.340] [SPEAKER_11]: Shame on me.
[55:16.700 --> 55:20.060] [SPEAKER_11]: This has been, you know, multiple times, and I'm just tired of it.
[55:20.120 --> 55:20.940] [SPEAKER_11]: I just feel abused.
[55:20.960 --> 55:25.120] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I hope we at least have you as a listener, but thanks for that call.
[55:25.380 --> 55:26.900] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's take one more from New Jersey.
[55:27.180 --> 55:28.120] [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening, New Jersey.
[55:28.240 --> 55:28.880] [SPEAKER_04]: You're on the air.
[55:29.000 --> 55:29.580] [SPEAKER_04]: Can you hear us?
[55:29.820 --> 55:30.020] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[55:30.560 --> 55:30.900] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[55:30.900 --> 55:31.540] [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[55:31.720 --> 55:32.740] [SPEAKER_04]: It's going to have to be quick, though.
[55:33.680 --> 55:34.020] [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[55:34.120 --> 55:36.600] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm an avid fan, and I love it.
[55:37.000 --> 55:38.660] [SPEAKER_08]: However, I differ with everybody.
[55:38.920 --> 55:40.600] [SPEAKER_08]: I think there should be...
[55:40.600 --> 55:53.900] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, the time that these four weeks, I turn the dial off, I hear over and over again the same things repeated, and they lose interest in the very time that they should be people.
[55:53.900 --> 56:01.160] [SPEAKER_08]: What I suggest is, if Bertil or whoever wants people to love the station, have them come.
[56:01.380 --> 56:03.940] [SPEAKER_08]: There are people who are poetry readers, anything.
[56:04.240 --> 56:05.960] [SPEAKER_08]: So that should be the...
[56:05.960 --> 56:14.440] [SPEAKER_08]: not a premium, but allow the people that month who never get a chance to speak or talk, invite them and use that time.
[56:14.580 --> 56:15.360] [SPEAKER_08]: No, that's a good point.
[56:15.660 --> 56:17.600] [SPEAKER_08]: ...at the end of each program.
[56:17.820 --> 56:27.000] [SPEAKER_08]: But continue the wonderful programs you have without the message, without repetition of how many times we hear programs...
[56:27.000 --> 56:33.640] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't want to say what they are, but you know as well as I, how many times can they talk about health, about how many times...
[56:33.640 --> 56:37.980] [SPEAKER_08]: the same thing repeated, and how many times about the history.
[56:39.500 --> 56:42.200] [SPEAKER_08]: And I teach history at William Patterson University.
[56:42.560 --> 56:46.900] [SPEAKER_08]: So I'm well concerned about this.
[56:47.080 --> 56:47.820] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I'm sorry.
[56:47.920 --> 56:52.600] [SPEAKER_04]: I have to cut you off there, but you raise a very good point, and I think that's the right track to be on.
[56:52.720 --> 57:02.860] [SPEAKER_04]: It's less premium-driven and more content-driven of the station as a whole, more involvement with the community, getting more people on the air, getting us all involved.
[57:02.860 --> 57:05.500] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that's the key here, and that's where we have to start.
[57:05.760 --> 57:11.440] [SPEAKER_04]: And the way you can start, call 516-620-3602, pledge whatever you can afford.
[57:11.620 --> 57:13.300] [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, we're out of here until next week.
[57:13.420 --> 57:16.100] [SPEAKER_04]: Personal Computer Show is on next, I believe, for two hours tonight.
[57:16.720 --> 57:17.440] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow, okay.
[57:17.540 --> 57:18.340] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, good luck with that.
[57:18.340 --> 57:20.540] [SPEAKER_04]: But this is WBAI New York.
[57:20.840 --> 57:23.740] [SPEAKER_04]: Emmanuel, if we're off the hook, write to us, oth@2600.com.
[57:23.840 --> 57:24.280] [SPEAKER_04]: See you next week.