[00:00.000 --> 00:00.840] [SPEAKER_02]: Presidential debate.
[00:01.080 --> 00:11.740] [SPEAKER_02]: At WBAI, the WBAI University of the Air and the Commons will present an open mic and forum where people can come and listen and talk about the debate as it is happening.
[00:12.020 --> 00:21.440] [SPEAKER_02]: That will be on the night of September 26th at 7 o'clock at 388 Atlantic Avenue between Hoyt and Bond Street in downtown Brooklyn.
[00:21.840 --> 00:29.920] [SPEAKER_02]: Come and let your voice be known as to what you think is going on and listen to Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump debate the presidency of the United States.
[00:35.540 --> 00:37.860] [SPEAKER_01]: And how much fun does that sound like?
[00:38.540 --> 00:40.800] [SPEAKER_01]: The time is just about 7pm.
[00:40.800 --> 00:50.380] [SPEAKER_01]: You are listening to 99.5 FM, WBAI New York, where it's time for an edition of Off The Hook.
[01:04.280 --> 01:05.980] [SPEAKER_06]: Now I can't make a call.
[01:06.620 --> 01:08.780] [SPEAKER_06]: We couldn't get much worse.
[01:11.570 --> 01:14.240] [SPEAKER_06]: Bon Diddley Bom for the best, it's back the worst.
[01:14.830 --> 01:16.710] [SPEAKER_06]: I hope that's understood.
[01:17.100 --> 01:17.760] [SPEAKER_06]: Bon Diddley Bom!
[01:17.760 --> 01:19.240] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh,
[01:31.760 --> 01:34.060] [SPEAKER_00]: I know, I know, I know, I know.
[01:34.060 --> 01:41.200] [SPEAKER_00]: That's Frankenstein, that's Frankenstein, that's Frankenstein, that's Frankenstein, Frankenstein, Frankenstein, Frankenstein.
[01:41.200 --> 01:48.160] [SPEAKER_00]: My name is pronounced Frankenstein, Frankenstein, Frankenstein, Frankenstein, Frankenstein.
[01:48.160 --> 02:02.680] [SPEAKER_05]: You play that music, music, Abbey Norma Abbey Norma You play that music Abbey Anway Norma
[02:07.000 --> 02:11.680] [SPEAKER_05]: Norma Yes indeed.
[02:12.520 --> 02:15.500] [SPEAKER_01]: It is time for Off The Hook.
[02:17.780 --> 02:21.000] [SPEAKER_01]: Our theme song was briefly interrupted by Young Frankenstein.
[02:21.000 --> 02:24.500] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how that happened, but I'm not sorry.
[02:26.940 --> 02:28.240] [SPEAKER_01]: Who's in the studio today?
[02:28.620 --> 02:30.020] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm joined... this is Rob T.
[02:30.120 --> 02:31.580] [SPEAKER_01]: Firefly, by the way, I should mention that.
[02:31.740 --> 02:33.200] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm joined in the studio by Jim.
[02:33.540 --> 02:33.920] [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.
[02:34.800 --> 02:38.300] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm joined on the Skype line by Bernie S.
[02:39.240 --> 02:40.780] [SPEAKER_01]: Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:41.380 --> 02:45.900] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, our compatriots, Emmanuel and Kyle, they've been fired off into space or something.
[02:46.040 --> 02:47.140] [SPEAKER_01]: They won't be joining us tonight.
[02:47.880 --> 02:49.360] [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to have...
[02:49.360 --> 02:56.300] [SPEAKER_03]: What's the difference, Rob, between a comrade, a compatriot, and a patriot?
[02:58.140 --> 02:59.540] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, first of all, the spelling.
[03:01.040 --> 03:01.280] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[03:01.880 --> 03:03.880] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, Jim really liked that question.
[03:04.000 --> 03:05.520] [SPEAKER_03]: I heard him explain in the background.
[03:05.900 --> 03:06.060] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[03:06.220 --> 03:09.600] [SPEAKER_03]: Is compatriot a sort of a cross between a comrade and a patriot?
[03:09.820 --> 03:10.400] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[03:10.400 --> 03:10.680] [SPEAKER_01]: No.
[03:11.220 --> 03:12.240] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[03:12.560 --> 03:14.040] [SPEAKER_01]: Isn't that a type of missile?
[03:14.480 --> 03:15.000] [SPEAKER_01]: Or...
[03:15.660 --> 03:16.520] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[03:16.700 --> 03:19.700] [SPEAKER_01]: But we do have a lot going on.
[03:19.780 --> 03:26.600] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a special episode of this show in that it's our final episode in this time slot, 7 p.m.
[03:26.620 --> 03:27.260] [SPEAKER_01]: Wednesday nights.
[03:28.240 --> 03:32.220] [SPEAKER_01]: Because there are all sorts of changes and shufflings and stuff going on.
[03:32.900 --> 03:36.820] [SPEAKER_01]: And from next week, from September, you will be...
[03:36.820 --> 03:44.780] [SPEAKER_01]: If you wish to find off the hook, you will find it on the WBAI dial Wednesdays at 8 p.m., one hour into the future.
[03:46.320 --> 03:49.820] [SPEAKER_03]: And there will be a political comedy show in this slot, I understand.
[03:50.180 --> 03:50.340] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[03:50.460 --> 03:58.200] [SPEAKER_01]: I think our colleague compatriot co-radio person, Katie Halper, I think she's going to be on at 7.
[03:58.960 --> 04:03.520] [SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be all sorts of political comedy things happening here at 7 p.m.
[04:03.600 --> 04:04.080] [SPEAKER_01]: on weekday nights.
[04:04.080 --> 04:09.100] [SPEAKER_01]: But we have another announcement regarding the shuffling schedule here at WBAI.
[04:09.200 --> 04:24.500] [SPEAKER_01]: We had previously reported that our friends at the Personal Computer Show, who have up until today been on Wednesday nights at 8 p.m., where they will also be today after this program, we had reported on their cancellation.
[04:24.500 --> 04:27.400] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm very happy to announce that that has been rescinded.
[04:27.680 --> 04:31.720] [SPEAKER_01]: The Personal Computer Show will now be following us Wednesday nights at 9 p.m.
[04:32.540 --> 04:33.120] [SPEAKER_01]: Yay!
[04:34.540 --> 04:35.060] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[04:35.060 --> 04:35.520] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[04:36.100 --> 04:41.680] [SPEAKER_01]: Our friends, Hank and Joe, and the crew from the PC show will keep doing what they do.
[04:41.980 --> 04:45.400] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, voices have spoken loudly.
[04:45.780 --> 04:46.860] [SPEAKER_01]: The PC show is loved.
[04:46.980 --> 04:52.040] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that message got to the right individuals here at WBAI.
[04:52.220 --> 04:54.200] [SPEAKER_01]: So they have been uncancelled.
[04:54.460 --> 04:55.940] [SPEAKER_01]: They'll be on an hour later, just as we are.
[04:56.120 --> 05:00.040] [SPEAKER_01]: So we will be on next week at 8 p.m.
[05:00.640 --> 05:02.320] [SPEAKER_01]: Eastern Time, America.
[05:02.320 --> 05:05.680] [SPEAKER_01]: And they will be on Wednesday night at 9 p.m.
[05:07.180 --> 05:13.480] [SPEAKER_01]: Exploration, hosted by Michio Kaku, has been moved as a result of all the shuffling around to Thursday at 3 a.m.
[05:14.040 --> 05:14.800] [SPEAKER_01]: On 3 a.m.
[05:14.800 --> 05:15.460] [SPEAKER_01]: On Thursday morning.
[05:16.860 --> 05:18.540] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's the latest word.
[05:18.700 --> 05:24.020] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what we've got to report about schedules and shufflings and goings on.
[05:25.900 --> 05:26.700] [SPEAKER_01]: And, yeah.
[05:26.900 --> 05:29.780] [SPEAKER_01]: So all sorts of things are happening here at WBAI.
[05:29.860 --> 05:31.940] [SPEAKER_01]: All sorts of things are always happening here at WBAI.
[05:31.940 --> 05:34.920] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's kind of a ride being part of it.
[05:35.100 --> 05:37.720] [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes we have happy news to report as a result.
[05:37.920 --> 05:43.320] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yes, our friends at the PC show will continue to follow us here on the WBAI schedule.
[05:43.320 --> 05:45.720] [SPEAKER_01]: It'll just all be happening an hour later.
[05:47.160 --> 05:55.440] [SPEAKER_01]: Which, you know, although it means I'm going to have to stay up late for another hour on Wednesdays, I think I'm going to be able to make the transition.
[05:55.940 --> 05:56.820] [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think, Bernie?
[05:58.080 --> 06:02.980] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we're just going to have to be later out night owls than we already are.
[06:03.120 --> 06:07.540] [SPEAKER_03]: Because we're already, like, up until after midnight after the show from 7 to 8.
[06:07.640 --> 06:09.820] [SPEAKER_03]: Does that mean we'll be up past 1 a.m.
[06:10.200 --> 06:10.460] [SPEAKER_03]: now?
[06:10.540 --> 06:12.340] [SPEAKER_03]: That we're going to be moved an hour ahead?
[06:13.340 --> 06:13.960] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[06:14.600 --> 06:17.300] [SPEAKER_01]: Is this like a daylight savings thing or we're all going to be tired?
[06:17.360 --> 06:17.800] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[06:18.160 --> 06:19.500] [SPEAKER_01]: But we'll figure it out.
[06:19.820 --> 06:22.400] [SPEAKER_01]: In the meantime, a whole lot going on in the world.
[06:23.020 --> 06:26.460] [SPEAKER_01]: Bernie, I'm hearing that you were here, speaking of shuffling around at the station.
[06:26.460 --> 06:29.680] [SPEAKER_01]: You were shuffling around here at the station very recently, weren't you?
[06:30.600 --> 06:31.900] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I was there last week.
[06:31.900 --> 06:36.400] [SPEAKER_03]: I was live in the studio for the first time at 388 Atlantic Avenue.
[06:36.520 --> 06:45.400] [SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to see it before we moved to a new slot or before the studio disappeared, God forbid.
[06:45.700 --> 06:46.320] [SPEAKER_03]: But, yeah.
[06:46.420 --> 06:49.480] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, are you talking about Monday when I was there?
[06:49.940 --> 06:50.860] [SPEAKER_01]: What happened on Monday?
[06:51.020 --> 06:51.600] [SPEAKER_01]: What was that all about?
[06:51.600 --> 07:06.540] [SPEAKER_03]: On Monday, I was meeting with Pacifica's National Technical Director, John Elma, and a couple of gentlemen from the technical staff at WPG's.
[07:06.540 --> 07:07.620] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm really losing it.
[07:08.140 --> 07:11.700] [SPEAKER_03]: The Pacifica station in D.C.
[07:11.700 --> 07:17.940] [SPEAKER_03]: And we met and talked about station issues and the telephone line situation.
[07:18.180 --> 07:21.360] [SPEAKER_03]: I found out why we don't have a telephone line.
[07:21.360 --> 07:27.320] [SPEAKER_03]: It's because it's like $27,000 in phone bills that weren't paid.
[07:27.520 --> 07:29.540] [SPEAKER_03]: And I found out why they were so high.
[07:29.540 --> 07:32.960] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm working on that now to get them reduced dramatically.
[07:34.580 --> 07:46.120] [SPEAKER_03]: So, hey, do you ever get a phone line and you just never specified a long-distance or international provider and Verizon just assigns their own rates to you?
[07:46.820 --> 07:48.620] [SPEAKER_03]: That's what happened at WBAI.
[07:48.780 --> 07:52.560] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that doesn't sound like a situation that can be good for anyone except perhaps Verizon.
[07:53.180 --> 08:06.000] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, Verizon, yeah, Verizon will charge you the highest possible rate allowed by law, which means like a call to Africa or South America, like a one-hour call, could be hundreds of dollars.
[08:06.440 --> 08:07.980] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what happened.
[08:08.100 --> 08:16.580] [SPEAKER_03]: Multiply that by, I don't know how many months and years, and that added up to a lot of money on WBAI's payables.
[08:16.580 --> 08:27.760] [SPEAKER_03]: So, I'm working with our general manager and John Alamo, the national technical director, to choose a lower-cost, long-distance provider.
[08:28.280 --> 08:32.140] [SPEAKER_03]: We would have been happy to assist with this years ago, but we were never consulted.
[08:32.380 --> 08:36.200] [SPEAKER_03]: And apparently, this was an oversight that cost a lot of money.
[08:36.200 --> 08:47.660] [SPEAKER_03]: But the good news is, I'm hoping that bill can be paid and the calls, the bills moving forward will be much more affordable to WBAI, so we can get our phone lines back soon.
[08:47.820 --> 08:49.920] [SPEAKER_03]: So, keep my fingers crossed, we're working on it.
[08:50.120 --> 08:51.020] [SPEAKER_01]: We can but hope.
[08:51.160 --> 09:02.520] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's almost like being back in the 90s when long-distance calls cost something, and it was worth trying to find clever ways around it, like you might know of if you were listening to this particular program back then.
[09:02.940 --> 09:11.860] [SPEAKER_01]: But yes, now as then, if there's one thing we know, it's getting cheaper phone calls, and so hopefully we can be of assistance through the rest of this.
[09:11.960 --> 09:17.300] [SPEAKER_01]: And thank you, Bernie, for coming up and throwing in on all this on your time.
[09:18.220 --> 09:26.580] [SPEAKER_03]: I also got to tour the transmitter room atop the entire Empire State Building, which was really fascinating.
[09:26.580 --> 09:34.900] [SPEAKER_03]: I'd seen pictures of it, but I got to actually fondle WBAI's transmitter on Monday night.
[09:35.240 --> 09:38.060] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's beautiful rack-mounted equipment.
[09:38.060 --> 09:38.860] [SPEAKER_03]: It's very hot.
[09:39.020 --> 09:40.660] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a hot piece of equipment, I'm telling you.
[09:40.780 --> 09:50.920] [SPEAKER_03]: It's so hot that the failing air conditioner in that small room has been supplemented by a big box fan blowing on the equipment just to keep it cool.
[09:52.120 --> 10:01.100] [SPEAKER_03]: Our very able and ingenious engineer, Jake Glantams, has set up fans to keep it.
[10:01.500 --> 10:08.320] [SPEAKER_03]: So WBAI has more fans than we know about, and they're right there in the transmitter room.
[10:08.520 --> 10:16.940] [SPEAKER_03]: And there's just amazing copper plumbing up there, not carrying water, but big copper pipes that are several inches in diameter running all around.
[10:16.940 --> 10:19.460] [SPEAKER_03]: And water is not running through them.
[10:20.060 --> 10:34.060] [SPEAKER_03]: Radio frequency energy is running through these big fat copper pipes, thousands and thousands of watts of radio frequency energy running through them, and up into a combiner, which is another massive plumbing, RF plumbing thing, into the master FM antenna,
[10:34.160 --> 10:36.320] [SPEAKER_03]: which a lot of radio stations share.
[10:36.760 --> 10:39.720] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was really cool looking at all.
[10:39.760 --> 10:44.720] [SPEAKER_03]: There's even an old rotary dial phone, a working rotary dial phone on the wall in the transmitter room.
[10:44.740 --> 10:45.960] [SPEAKER_03]: A working rotary dial phone?
[10:46.940 --> 10:47.140] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[10:47.320 --> 10:47.980] [SPEAKER_03]: So who did you call?
[10:48.200 --> 10:54.160] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't give out the number over the phone because it's this special emergency number that WPIA uses.
[10:54.660 --> 10:56.800] [SPEAKER_03]: And somebody needs to reach somebody at the transmitter room.
[10:56.920 --> 10:59.460] [SPEAKER_03]: But there is such a phone on the wall there.
[10:59.460 --> 11:00.000] [SPEAKER_03]: It exists.
[11:00.240 --> 11:08.900] [SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, there's just some amazing... There's some actually Western electric modems there from like decades old.
[11:09.100 --> 11:11.500] [SPEAKER_03]: There's some cool stuff in that room from back in the 60s.
[11:11.680 --> 11:12.480] [SPEAKER_03]: This is amazing.
[11:12.620 --> 11:14.020] [SPEAKER_03]: It was like a museum.
[11:14.600 --> 11:16.560] [SPEAKER_03]: But anyhow, it was very cool.
[11:16.700 --> 11:18.680] [SPEAKER_03]: And I felt very honored to be in that room.
[11:18.860 --> 11:19.000] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[11:19.080 --> 11:23.180] [SPEAKER_01]: You got to go up there Monday night and fondle the transmitters.
[11:23.320 --> 11:31.540] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, we apologize to any listeners who were listening to WBAI at that time and felt something brushing up against their ear that was, you know, blame Bernie S.
[11:31.680 --> 11:33.180] [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah.
[11:33.180 --> 11:42.000] [SPEAKER_01]: So how does it all look up there for the health and well-being of our equipment?
[11:43.140 --> 11:47.740] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, the air conditioner up there needs to be... I've been told that the air conditioning...
[11:47.740 --> 11:49.160] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not just like a wall air conditioner.
[11:49.420 --> 11:55.120] [SPEAKER_03]: We need about $10,000 just to have an air conditioning system to keep the transmitting equipment cool.
[11:55.780 --> 11:57.980] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not begging for money on the air right now.
[11:58.100 --> 12:01.540] [SPEAKER_03]: But these are realities because this stuff gets really hot.
[12:03.340 --> 12:10.160] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's been... And, you know, with global warming and so forth, this gets hotter and hotter up there.
[12:10.880 --> 12:12.900] [SPEAKER_03]: So it can cause the transmitter to fail.
[12:13.260 --> 12:14.720] [SPEAKER_03]: And this is not hyperbole.
[12:14.840 --> 12:16.220] [SPEAKER_03]: This is real, real stuff.
[12:16.900 --> 12:21.560] [SPEAKER_03]: There's an amazing... You know, it looks like a hacker's... It looks like a hacker's project.
[12:21.560 --> 12:23.720] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a WBAI transmitter.
[12:23.980 --> 12:26.820] [SPEAKER_03]: There's all this equipment and racks just sort of strung together.
[12:27.380 --> 12:31.840] [SPEAKER_03]: It looks like, you know, it looks like a knock at the network operations center at Hope.
[12:32.020 --> 12:33.380] [SPEAKER_03]: There's wires strung everywhere.
[12:34.020 --> 12:37.900] [SPEAKER_03]: Only this has been going on up there on the Impair State Building since the 1960s.
[12:38.100 --> 12:39.380] [SPEAKER_03]: You can imagine it.
[12:39.500 --> 12:49.560] [SPEAKER_03]: It accumulates the hacker-ish exploits of keeping this radio station together with Band-Aids and duct tape and so forth.
[12:49.560 --> 12:51.660] [SPEAKER_03]: But it was an impressive... Because it's on the air.
[12:51.960 --> 12:54.560] [SPEAKER_03]: We are now emanating... You know, we're emanating our signal.
[12:56.720 --> 13:00.380] [SPEAKER_03]: It's 50,000 effective radiated power watts.
[13:00.380 --> 13:02.880] [SPEAKER_03]: It's really 4.3 thousand watts from the antenna.
[13:02.960 --> 13:07.580] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's so high and so big that it's effectively the same as a 50,000-watt signal.
[13:07.800 --> 13:10.080] [SPEAKER_03]: And it reaches about 80 miles in all directions.
[13:10.080 --> 13:14.360] [SPEAKER_03]: So it was really an engineering masterpiece looking at that up there.
[13:14.600 --> 13:24.040] [SPEAKER_03]: And seeing... It was sort of a combination of an engineering masterpiece and a hacker-ish project with, like, all these wires strung all over the place.
[13:24.180 --> 13:24.360] [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
[13:24.740 --> 13:25.640] [SPEAKER_03]: It's impressive.
[13:25.840 --> 13:27.200] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's a good thing.
[13:27.200 --> 13:35.200] [SPEAKER_03]: It was really amazing to see how this radio station stays on the air from a physical and electronic standpoint.
[13:36.480 --> 13:39.460] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was blessed to witness this.
[13:39.680 --> 13:44.060] [SPEAKER_03]: And all the more reason why, folks, if we're not pledging... We're not doing fundraising tonight.
[13:44.080 --> 13:49.000] [SPEAKER_03]: But if you just really want to support the station, go to the website...
[13:49.840 --> 13:50.780] [SPEAKER_01]: Give to WBAI.
[13:50.780 --> 13:51.080] [SPEAKER_01]: What is it?
[13:51.800 --> 13:52.660] [SPEAKER_03]: Give... What is it?
[13:52.860 --> 13:53.140] [SPEAKER_03]: Give...
[13:53.140 --> 13:54.820] [SPEAKER_01]: give2wbai.org.
[13:55.660 --> 13:55.860] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[13:55.980 --> 13:57.060] [SPEAKER_03]: Give to WBAI.
[13:57.080 --> 13:59.200] [SPEAKER_03]: You don't even need to use the numeral 2 now, thanks to you.
[13:59.540 --> 14:01.400] [SPEAKER_03]: give2wbai.org.
[14:01.400 --> 14:06.060] [SPEAKER_03]: And just, you know, pledge whatever you can to keep this thing on the air, because the station's really in dire straits.
[14:07.320 --> 14:08.060] [SPEAKER_03]: One of the...
[14:08.600 --> 14:18.040] [SPEAKER_03]: Treasurer just resigned from the West Coast, and he's going to be pursuing an academic venture out there in Berkeley.
[14:18.560 --> 14:22.160] [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, there's a lot going on at Pacifico.
[14:22.260 --> 14:27.960] [SPEAKER_03]: We want to keep this on the air, because if it's sold or licensed to another station, we're going to lose a lot of valuable content.
[14:27.960 --> 14:33.380] [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, I don't want to pitch anymore for this station, but it's worth keeping on the air.
[14:33.480 --> 14:34.240] [SPEAKER_03]: That's all I'd like to say.
[14:34.420 --> 14:51.120] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's just, I think, very, very obvious, more so than ever, that it's nuts that we can even do this at all, that we have this sort of ragtag operation that manages to pipe a signal to that facility in the Empire State Building, you know, the historic Empire State Building,
[14:51.280 --> 14:57.600] [SPEAKER_01]: and blow it 80 miles in all directions, and just keep doing what we do and making radio.
[14:57.820 --> 15:01.860] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's something that all of us here believe in, and that's why we keep showing up.
[15:03.100 --> 15:05.560] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, a lot of other stuff going on.
[15:05.680 --> 15:12.020] [SPEAKER_01]: We're not, you know, not all the news this week has been at WBAI or Pacifica.
[15:12.020 --> 15:22.300] [SPEAKER_01]: But there's an article in the Washington Examiner how the Homeland Security Department is eyeing a special declaration to take charge of elections.
[15:23.540 --> 15:40.160] [SPEAKER_01]: We've talked a lot on this program and at Hope and elsewhere about the vulnerabilities in election systems and the things needed to kind of tighten up security or what they can do, what they're trying to do, whether any of it's at all possible.
[15:41.120 --> 15:59.080] [SPEAKER_01]: But according to the Washington Examiner, even before the FBI identified new cyber attacks on two separate state election boards, which happened recently, the Department of Homeland Security began considering declaring the election a, quote, critical infrastructure and giving the feds the same control over security it has over Wall Street and the electric power grid.
[16:00.720 --> 16:07.740] [SPEAKER_01]: Homeland Security Jay Johnson says, we should carefully consider whether our election system, our election process is critical infrastructure like the financial sector, like the power grid.
[16:08.000 --> 16:10.520] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a vital national interest in our election process.
[16:10.580 --> 16:19.100] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think we need to consider whether it should be considered by my department, meaning the Homeland Security Department, and others, critical infrastructure.
[16:19.500 --> 16:21.840] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I don't know, what do you think?
[16:22.100 --> 16:29.640] [SPEAKER_01]: Elections, we're all kind of experiencing the blowback and the chaos and the headaches and the crying and the whimpering that comes with election season.
[16:29.640 --> 16:31.140] [SPEAKER_01]: But what do you think?
[16:31.240 --> 16:36.360] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it something that's critical infrastructure on the level of, like, electricity and plumbing?
[16:37.740 --> 16:41.960] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's not really a public utility, but I can see the parallel.
[16:42.320 --> 16:51.140] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the electric system really only gets used during, you know, primary... you know, during, you know, when there's elections, which don't happen 24-7.
[16:51.140 --> 17:00.980] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's critical to our former government, our... you know, a lot of people say it's our democracy, but we really live in a republic.
[17:02.520 --> 17:05.680] [SPEAKER_03]: Some, you know, more local elections are decided democratically.
[17:05.880 --> 17:12.340] [SPEAKER_03]: Our presidents are decided as a republic with delegates and so forth.
[17:12.340 --> 17:14.640] [SPEAKER_03]: But still, you know, should this system be compromised?
[17:14.960 --> 17:31.600] [SPEAKER_03]: And we've been talking about the vulnerabilities of electronic voting systems here for, I forget how many years, for like 15, 20 years since electronic voting systems have been used.
[17:31.600 --> 17:35.780] [SPEAKER_03]: And all kinds of people have showed, and I've been spoken at the HOPE conference.
[17:36.020 --> 17:41.860] [SPEAKER_03]: You can go to HOPE.net and just search for election and find some of the vulnerabilities on this.
[17:41.920 --> 17:59.380] [SPEAKER_03]: But now we're hearing from the Department of Justice, from the FBI, that state actors, that is, foreign governments, have penetrated various state election systems, as well as the computers of the Democratic National Committee.
[18:00.340 --> 18:11.040] [SPEAKER_03]: And that should be worrisome, although I don't think we should be any more worried about foreign state actors than we would about anyone else who wanted to be malicious and flip an election one way or the other.
[18:11.100 --> 18:12.420] [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't take much to flip an election.
[18:12.560 --> 18:13.760] [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of elections are very close.
[18:14.780 --> 18:23.600] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, elections are pretty close to 50-50, and all it would take is, you know, flip things a little bit here or there and leave no paper trail, because there's no paper trail in a lot of these systems.
[18:24.740 --> 18:33.020] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, part of the chaotic aspect of all this is that elections are something that's currently run state by state in this country.
[18:33.660 --> 18:40.280] [SPEAKER_01]: So every state has their own attempted infrastructure and standards and ways of doing things.
[18:40.280 --> 18:54.000] [SPEAKER_01]: And for the federal government to be looking this over and wanting to sort of corral it all together, it compares, I think, to the way that different states have different, like, driver's licensing schemes and ID cards and things like that.
[18:54.140 --> 19:02.260] [SPEAKER_01]: So trying to take this over from the states in any level, I think they're kind of facing an uphill battle just bureaucracy-wise.
[19:03.420 --> 19:04.080] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, sure.
[19:04.260 --> 19:15.320] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, each state has a huge election bureaucracy with a lot of vested interest in people keeping their jobs and that sort of thing.
[19:15.380 --> 19:16.480] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a power thing, too.
[19:17.920 --> 19:24.320] [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't think states are ever going to give up to national control of elections in this country.
[19:24.320 --> 19:25.720] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not sure if they should.
[19:25.940 --> 19:35.780] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, but perhaps, I don't really know whether having 50 different state election systems means that things are more secure or less secure.
[19:35.940 --> 19:52.220] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there could be security through diversity, but if things are centrally controlled by folks that really knew what they were doing, which is a tall, expecting a lot from our federal government, I think, versus the state election systems, where there's 50 different systems for people that don't know what they're doing,
[19:52.440 --> 19:53.900] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[19:54.660 --> 19:58.140] [SPEAKER_03]: I think we're screwed either way, but this is going to be an interesting election.
[19:58.500 --> 20:09.900] [SPEAKER_03]: And I predict, I'm going to say it right here on the air, I predict there will be claims that there will be hacking of elections in November.
[20:10.860 --> 20:12.120] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just going to say that.
[20:12.580 --> 20:15.620] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's too much of a leap.
[20:16.520 --> 20:28.740] [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a very good chance that whoever loses in this election will sort of cry sour grapes and want to blame it on something other than them not being savvy enough to win.
[20:29.560 --> 20:30.900] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they're going to blame hackers.
[20:31.360 --> 20:51.500] [SPEAKER_03]: And whether they're state actor hackers or, you know, or hackers from the other opposing side of the election or just other, or ne'er-do-wells, or primarily a lot of hackers that have no malicious intent to blame for things that have nothing to do with them.
[20:52.220 --> 21:00.580] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, I really, even using the term hackers when it comes to this sort of thing, it's criminal if you're interfering with an election.
[21:01.140 --> 21:08.360] [SPEAKER_03]: But I just don't trust our government to have enough people to know what they're doing to really try to prevent this from happening.
[21:08.540 --> 21:32.680] [SPEAKER_03]: So this is, I think it's going to be a bellwether year to see how this confluence of electronic networks and servers and electronic election systems coincide with more and more vulnerabilities and state actors and others trying to manipulate the system.
[21:32.820 --> 21:34.020] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just going to be fascinating.
[21:34.960 --> 21:39.020] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's going to give us plenty to talk about in the next few months, that's for sure.
[21:39.320 --> 21:40.400] [SPEAKER_01]: This is true.
[21:40.800 --> 21:51.720] [SPEAKER_01]: And again, I don't think that's such a huge leap of logic to think that maybe the government isn't going to have enough people who know what they're doing to make head or tail out of any of this.
[21:51.720 --> 21:59.060] [SPEAKER_01]: But we'll see what happens and we'll keep an eye on it and we'll tell you listeners what we know about it as soon as we know anything.
[22:00.860 --> 22:03.880] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just a heck of a sight.
[22:04.860 --> 22:11.780] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like driving past a road accident and you want to rub your neck and look at it and marvel at the explosions and go from there.
[22:12.580 --> 22:14.680] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but it has real-life consequences, too.
[22:14.840 --> 22:19.340] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you see a road accident, it's like somebody casually got hurt or killed on the road.
[22:19.480 --> 22:21.740] [SPEAKER_03]: But this is a country we're talking about.
[22:21.960 --> 22:30.720] [SPEAKER_03]: These are, you know, depending on who gets elected, it could have a huge impact both in the local, state and federal levels and the president, the White House.
[22:31.200 --> 22:35.360] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this could affect our lives for generations who wins the next election.
[22:35.360 --> 22:43.580] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, we have, frankly, I think this whole delegate system, delegates and superdecks, I think that's election hacking.
[22:43.740 --> 22:44.720] [SPEAKER_03]: It's in another way.
[22:44.900 --> 22:46.220] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just hacking our democracy.
[22:47.180 --> 22:51.900] [SPEAKER_01]: One of the classic examples of election hacking has been going on for many, many generations.
[22:51.900 --> 22:53.140] [SPEAKER_01]: It's known as gerrymandering.
[22:53.900 --> 23:00.920] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's when interests re-zone the election districts to favor themselves over others.
[23:00.920 --> 23:11.660] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a bit outside the scope of this particular program, but I encourage you, if you're at all curious about such things, look up gerrymandering online and take a look at some of the diagrams and things.
[23:11.920 --> 23:13.180] [SPEAKER_01]: It's quite, quite fascinating.
[23:13.700 --> 23:14.900] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and it's spelled with a G.
[23:15.100 --> 23:19.600] [SPEAKER_03]: So it was actually the name of a creature that has a historical reference, gerrymander.
[23:19.780 --> 23:27.040] [SPEAKER_03]: But anyway, look up G-E-R-R-Y-M-A-N-D-E-R and search for pictures or images of the gerrymander.
[23:27.040 --> 23:43.800] [SPEAKER_03]: And you'll see some amazing state election boundaries, voting district boundaries that are just, you know, that are calculated using geographical information systems to disenfranchise certain voting groups.
[23:44.360 --> 23:49.520] [SPEAKER_03]: And this is technology that's being used to map out...
[23:49.520 --> 24:01.480] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, this technology has been used in various forms going back, you know, probably 100 years or so, but it's being used with more and more sophisticated technology to map out.
[24:01.640 --> 24:09.020] [SPEAKER_03]: And the way it works is in every state, the party in control of each state gets to define the boundaries of various election districts.
[24:09.440 --> 24:18.600] [SPEAKER_03]: And you can see some just incredibly, crazily shaped voting districts that are designed to disenfranchise certain groups.
[24:18.600 --> 24:20.120] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's fascinating.
[24:20.300 --> 24:31.120] [SPEAKER_03]: We're really getting off the topic of hacking, but it's, you know, this is an election year and everybody's talking about what's going on in the elections moving forward, not just the White House election.
[24:31.260 --> 24:39.960] [SPEAKER_03]: But we should all be aware of all the forms of hacking and the ways it can be used to affect our lives in major ways.
[24:40.800 --> 24:44.240] [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, I don't think it's, I don't think it's a bad idea for us to be talking about it.
[24:44.340 --> 24:46.440] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it's too early for us to be talking about it.
[24:46.440 --> 24:56.940] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, Jared, it's basically the end result of the system being successfully hacked by those in power to favor themselves and their successors.
[24:57.160 --> 25:01.980] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it is kind of in our wheelhouse, as they say.
[25:01.980 --> 25:03.500] [SPEAKER_03]: Sure, sure.
[25:03.860 --> 25:10.960] [SPEAKER_03]: But they're actually getting more savvy in using technology, just like those in the hacker computer you're aware of.
[25:12.240 --> 25:16.520] [SPEAKER_03]: But this is a show where we can describe what's going on.
[25:16.740 --> 25:31.900] [SPEAKER_03]: And again, I predict we're going to hear more and more about election hacking in the coming months up until the general election in November, about elections being hacked and how we do about it.
[25:31.980 --> 25:33.720] [SPEAKER_03]: There's going to be a lot of finger pointing going on.
[25:34.180 --> 25:37.400] [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be the convenient scapegoat, and it could actually happen.
[25:37.540 --> 25:40.040] [SPEAKER_03]: Whether it's really happening or not, it's going to be a scapegoat.
[25:40.220 --> 25:41.620] [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be an excuse.
[25:42.180 --> 25:43.640] [SPEAKER_03]: So we'll see what happens.
[25:45.640 --> 25:47.380] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a lot going on.
[25:48.600 --> 25:56.100] [SPEAKER_01]: There is another story that's been going around this week about Facebook and something that they have done, which had sort of unexpected results.
[25:57.300 --> 26:09.640] [SPEAKER_01]: A few months ago, the discovery was made that Facebook's trending news module was being curated and nudged in one direction or the other by human beings, by Facebook staff members, based on what they wanted to favor.
[26:11.140 --> 26:26.340] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, according to a story in The Guardian, Facebook basically decided to remove the humans from the equation, put it totally at the mercy of an algorithm, let the algorithm do the job of deciding what's trending and what's not.
[26:27.680 --> 26:43.900] [SPEAKER_01]: And among the results it's had, it pushed out a false story about Fox News host Megyn Kelly, a controversial piece about a comedian's four-letter word attack on Ann Coulter, and links to an article about a video of a man doing something unmentionable in a family audience with a McDonald's chicken sandwich.
[26:48.100 --> 26:50.340] [SPEAKER_01]: With extra mayonnaise, probably, too.
[26:51.480 --> 26:53.460] [SPEAKER_01]: You had to go there, Bernie.
[26:53.580 --> 26:54.820] [SPEAKER_01]: I was avoiding going there.
[26:55.520 --> 27:01.900] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, in my position as host of the show in the interim, while Emmanuel's gone, I tried not to go there.
[27:02.040 --> 27:03.420] [SPEAKER_01]: And you brought us there, Bernie.
[27:03.660 --> 27:04.420] [SPEAKER_01]: You brought us there.
[27:04.460 --> 27:06.120] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, I like extra mayonnaise on my sandwiches.
[27:06.180 --> 27:06.760] [SPEAKER_01]: What can I say?
[27:06.860 --> 27:08.440] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm not going to judge your life, man.
[27:11.940 --> 27:25.360] [SPEAKER_01]: So Facebook made a blog post explaining themselves and saying the decision to drop people from the news module would allow it to operate at a greater scale, which I think is working wonderfully if you're pushing out stories about violating McDonald's chicken sandwiches and,
[27:25.360 --> 27:28.160] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, false stories about public figures.
[27:28.540 --> 27:39.640] [SPEAKER_01]: So a source familiar with the matter told The Guardian that the trending team was fired without notice in a meeting with a security guard present, and the employees received four-week severance, at which point it was turned over to the artificial intelligence,
[27:39.960 --> 27:43.760] [SPEAKER_01]: and Skynet wasn't quite born, but something special.
[27:43.760 --> 27:47.320] [SPEAKER_03]: So the machine idiot took over.
[27:47.640 --> 27:48.720] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, pretty much.
[27:49.020 --> 27:56.660] [SPEAKER_01]: So we now... we don't need idiot humans to, you know, control things that an idiot computer can do just as successfully.
[27:58.580 --> 28:03.480] [SPEAKER_01]: But, yeah, the false story was a story meant to be...
[28:04.340 --> 28:07.500] [SPEAKER_01]: Fox News exposes traitor Megyn Kelly kicks her out for backing Hillary.
[28:07.680 --> 28:11.720] [SPEAKER_01]: Megyn Kelly, of course, being a right-wing pundit, did not back Hillary in reality.
[28:11.720 --> 28:20.600] [SPEAKER_01]: But the sort of folks who follow such things would have found that quite a piece of news if it were true, and it was not.
[28:21.120 --> 28:24.740] [SPEAKER_01]: The thing with the chicken sandwich, I think that happened, but I wasn't there.
[28:24.740 --> 28:25.580] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know for sure.
[28:26.560 --> 28:40.940] [SPEAKER_03]: And still, is that something that Facebook wants to say is trending, you know, and put that on the front page about somebody who's doing something unspeakable with a McDonald's chicken sandwich?
[28:40.940 --> 28:45.780] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, clearly we need some human people betting whatever.
[28:46.200 --> 28:54.720] [SPEAKER_03]: What's struck me most from the story, Rob, I don't know if you caught this, but the story in The Guardian is that Facebook...
[28:54.720 --> 28:56.300] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you can find it on the story here.
[28:56.540 --> 29:01.620] [SPEAKER_03]: Facebook is the world's largest distributor of news.
[29:01.820 --> 29:03.640] [SPEAKER_03]: And that just blew my mind.
[29:03.760 --> 29:04.140] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man.
[29:04.140 --> 29:07.960] [SPEAKER_03]: Facebook is the world's largest distributor of news.
[29:08.220 --> 29:08.900] [SPEAKER_01]: You mean it's not us.
[29:09.020 --> 29:11.300] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's not a matter of opinion.
[29:11.480 --> 29:13.600] [SPEAKER_03]: Apparently, that's fact at this point.
[29:14.720 --> 29:20.580] [SPEAKER_03]: And now they're leaving it up to an algorithm to distribute this news.
[29:20.820 --> 29:23.540] [SPEAKER_03]: And what an incredible amount of power.
[29:23.540 --> 29:34.860] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you used to be newspaper moguls like, you know, like, like Hearst and so forth that would decide the news that people would read.
[29:35.260 --> 29:39.200] [SPEAKER_03]: And now it's Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook.
[29:39.440 --> 29:42.180] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's fascinating to see what's going on.
[29:42.420 --> 29:42.580] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[29:42.660 --> 29:50.680] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Rupert Murdoch of Fox News, a while, you know, many, many years ago, he he bought MySpace, which was the Facebook of its time, sort of.
[29:50.680 --> 29:57.700] [SPEAKER_01]: And and he happened to buy it at just the wrong time when everyone was leaving it and ended up with a chunk of worthless virtual property.
[29:57.840 --> 30:04.260] [SPEAKER_01]: But if someone like that got control of Facebook, you know, we'd be at the mercy of whatever they wanted us to see.
[30:04.760 --> 30:10.480] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, who who's to who's to trust who's to trust an entity like that with so much.
[30:10.540 --> 30:17.960] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's interesting that Facebook is the largest producer or the largest source of news now, because it seems to me and this is just anecdotal evidence.
[30:17.960 --> 30:29.440] [SPEAKER_01]: But it seems to me that people are starting to leave Facebook like younger, younger people now don't tend to focus so much on Facebook as as say the 30 year olds who were there when it started.
[30:30.900 --> 30:36.980] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I always I've having having been a social network user since the early days of such things.
[30:37.360 --> 30:44.820] [SPEAKER_01]: You've seen you know, we've all seen single entities sort of rise and become a dominant thing and then fall away and then something else comes to take its place.
[30:44.960 --> 30:46.560] [SPEAKER_01]: And that becomes the cool thing that everyone's using.
[30:46.800 --> 30:49.380] [SPEAKER_01]: And then Google Plus comes out and nobody uses it.
[30:49.380 --> 31:01.100] [SPEAKER_01]: But but there it seems it seems like such a position of power to be in if you can be there at the right time to grab something while it's actually got some some pull to it and, you know, bend it to your will.
[31:01.220 --> 31:13.280] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's that's what we do in the media in this country, because not everyone else not everyone can be sort of community sponsored nonprofit sources of information such as, let's say, WBAI.
[31:14.040 --> 31:29.980] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, back to our previous meme that, you know, you can you can rely on Facebook for your news and have Mark Zuckerberg and and and on an unknown computer algorithm decide what news is fit to print.
[31:29.980 --> 31:50.180] [SPEAKER_03]: And or you can rely on a lot of really independent news and other radio producers at WPAI, who I got to say, you can say whatever you want about WBAI, but you really can't say that the management of WBAI has ever tried to influence content of what producers say on the air.
[31:50.180 --> 31:56.320] [SPEAKER_03]: We've never experienced it, to my knowledge, off the hook, many years of being on the air.
[31:56.520 --> 31:58.260] [SPEAKER_03]: And that is really refreshing.
[31:58.660 --> 32:00.040] [SPEAKER_03]: There really aren't many.
[32:00.160 --> 32:14.040] [SPEAKER_03]: I've talked to plenty of people who've been on commercial radio who everything they say is is very closely watched and analyzed and curated and down to the point where it's just like you can't say anything.
[32:14.040 --> 32:15.860] [SPEAKER_03]: You just have to play these particular songs.
[32:16.180 --> 32:17.560] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's ridiculous.
[32:17.920 --> 32:21.660] [SPEAKER_03]: So WBAI is is kind of an interesting contrast to Facebook.
[32:21.940 --> 32:23.880] [SPEAKER_03]: And as far as how it just needs news.
[32:24.080 --> 32:25.880] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, we're all going to be biased.
[32:26.080 --> 32:28.440] [SPEAKER_03]: But you're like, how would you like to be biased?
[32:29.880 --> 32:31.160] [SPEAKER_03]: So there you go.
[32:31.420 --> 32:38.400] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I personally am biased against chicken sandwiches from McDonald's, but I just think they're not very good.
[32:39.800 --> 32:40.900] [SPEAKER_01]: But moving on.
[32:41.540 --> 32:42.740] [SPEAKER_01]: It's another story going around.
[32:43.060 --> 32:49.840] [SPEAKER_01]: There's there's a very, a very big article on Vanity Fair dot com about how the Clinton campaign is foiling the Kremlin.
[32:50.180 --> 32:51.260] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the title of it.
[32:51.360 --> 32:52.600] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't make that up.
[32:52.660 --> 33:09.400] [SPEAKER_01]: But but, you know, there are some interesting things in here, like how the Clinton campaign has basically switched to using what they call Snowden approved apps for communication, such as Signal, the the the the SMS text message replacement service that encrypts end to end.
[33:10.580 --> 33:24.660] [SPEAKER_01]: And they're talking about journalists and people in these organizations and political campaigns basically wising up and doing things to ensure their own data security, because, you know, it's it's high time that they started doing such things.
[33:25.640 --> 33:34.900] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, there's mention made of of platforms like Wicker, W-I-C-K-R, which which is an app that ostensibly you send a message on.
[33:35.000 --> 33:43.360] [SPEAKER_01]: And it it displays for the recipient and then self-destructs, sort of like the Snapchat theory of temporary temporary communication.
[33:44.240 --> 33:46.940] [SPEAKER_01]: They talk about using things like burner phones and this and that.
[33:47.060 --> 33:50.780] [SPEAKER_01]: But but Snowden approved is the descriptor that's used.
[33:51.380 --> 33:56.320] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, all the irony is the irony is so amazingly thick, isn't it?
[33:56.320 --> 34:13.560] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, Hillary Clinton herself has really highly criticized Edward Snowden in his alleged releasing of classified documents, classified NSA documents to news media outlets.
[34:13.560 --> 34:24.380] [SPEAKER_03]: And and and but now, you know, is her own campaign is following Ed Snowden's own advice on which applications use for secure communications.
[34:24.740 --> 34:27.160] [SPEAKER_03]: I just I think the irony is just wonderful.
[34:27.960 --> 34:30.580] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the the the irony is is tangy.
[34:30.740 --> 34:35.900] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's it speaks to, I think, the issues that we talk about on this program.
[34:36.580 --> 34:43.160] [SPEAKER_01]: Issues like, you know, we've we've been talking about trying to improve your own data security and being aware of how these things should be.
[34:44.540 --> 34:49.320] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, how you can best protect yourself against how things can go wrong, all the ways things can go wrong.
[34:49.960 --> 34:53.020] [SPEAKER_01]: That's that's been the focus of this program since it went on the air in 1988.
[34:53.020 --> 35:08.020] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's it's it's always funny to see sort of mainstream entities and mainstream political figures and stuff like that, like come around and start start kind of singing a similar tune because it finally it suits them.
[35:08.640 --> 35:19.720] [SPEAKER_01]: But I I just I'm just really entertained by the citation of Edward Snowden in a story about how the Clinton campaign is is improving their own data security.
[35:21.060 --> 35:34.740] [SPEAKER_03]: But what's great is that the own internal secure in own internal campaign security staff of Hillary Clinton is is is is is saying that this is Snowden Snowden Quote Snowden Approved.
[35:34.880 --> 35:35.560] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that isn't that right?
[35:35.780 --> 35:36.680] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's that's the quote.
[35:36.760 --> 35:37.180] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the quote.
[35:37.740 --> 35:40.160] [SPEAKER_01]: That's just that's just like mind blowing.
[35:41.320 --> 35:44.460] [SPEAKER_01]: And that that guy that she wants to make this stuff up.
[35:44.800 --> 35:48.160] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that guy who if she were president, she would want to make disappear.
[35:49.280 --> 35:50.320] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, sure.
[35:50.500 --> 35:52.440] [SPEAKER_01]: And and and where did we learn about this?
[35:52.600 --> 35:54.760] [SPEAKER_03]: We learned that we got these documents from from where?
[35:55.860 --> 36:02.840] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even we we got them from well, this is this is going back to like the the the leaked cables.
[36:03.800 --> 36:04.760] [SPEAKER_01]: Things like that.
[36:05.380 --> 36:08.360] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, this weren't the documents where we're learning this.
[36:08.500 --> 36:12.700] [SPEAKER_03]: Didn't they come through through WikiLeaks or through through another leaker source?
[36:12.920 --> 36:13.080] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[36:13.520 --> 36:13.720] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[36:13.860 --> 36:17.560] [SPEAKER_01]: Snowden released released his things through WikiLeaks and then identified himself as the source.
[36:18.060 --> 36:18.900] [SPEAKER_01]: Because he was ready.
[36:18.940 --> 36:32.000] [SPEAKER_01]: He was ready to he chose to take a stand and declare himself the the source when ostensibly if if you if you if you are secure about leaking things to WikiLeaks, if you want to be a whistleblower, you don't have to do that.
[36:32.100 --> 36:43.920] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to make yourself the the sort of scapegoat that people like Snowden, people like Chelsea Manning find themselves find themselves find themselves being in the in the grander scheme of things.
[36:44.820 --> 37:00.680] [SPEAKER_03]: What I find a particular meeting is the tools that that the Clinton campaign are using are exactly the kind of it's for secure communications are exactly the kind of tools that FBI director James Comey is vilifying and saying we should not be allowed because,
[37:00.680 --> 37:03.040] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, are are we're going dark.
[37:03.220 --> 37:04.660] [SPEAKER_03]: We cannot we cannot read everything.
[37:04.880 --> 37:09.160] [SPEAKER_03]: We cannot read everybody's communications and mail and listen to what everybody's saying.
[37:09.380 --> 37:13.540] [SPEAKER_03]: And here, you know, candidates for president are using these same tools.
[37:13.540 --> 37:19.580] [SPEAKER_03]: So it'll be interesting to see what their pop with these presidential candidates policies that they're really not really talking about this.
[37:19.680 --> 37:20.960] [SPEAKER_03]: But I wish I could.
[37:21.160 --> 37:37.360] [SPEAKER_03]: I wish the public could could be in the audience for the upcoming presidential dates and actually ask their own questions instead of having them from some curator who does or some moderator who really isn't going to respect isn't going to really represent our views in the hacker community.
[37:37.360 --> 37:49.460] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, I would love to ask Hillary Clinton, like your campaign is recommending, quote, Snowden friendly tools to prevent anyone from eavesdropping on communications.
[37:49.500 --> 37:57.920] [SPEAKER_03]: And this is in direct violation to the FBI director James Comey's strong assertions that these should be outlawed.
[37:58.100 --> 38:03.700] [SPEAKER_03]: So how do you how do you what do you say to that?
[38:04.440 --> 38:05.960] [SPEAKER_03]: How do you justify this?
[38:07.020 --> 38:07.640] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[38:07.800 --> 38:09.340] [SPEAKER_01]: It's it's a it's a fun sort of double think.
[38:09.480 --> 38:10.440] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a nice mental exercise.
[38:10.680 --> 38:13.220] [SPEAKER_01]: But after all that stretching, I end up just very, very tired.
[38:14.340 --> 38:14.640] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[38:15.860 --> 38:18.200] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, that's that's that's something to keep an eye on.
[38:18.300 --> 38:26.640] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's something that we always encourage on this program and on this network, on this station that you do like watch watch the presidential debates.
[38:27.060 --> 38:28.520] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't get your news from one source.
[38:28.720 --> 38:34.640] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't get your news from a source that's, you know, obviously got its own agenda and what they want you to think about it.
[38:34.640 --> 38:38.660] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't get it solely from that source, like try and look at these things with an open mind.
[38:38.840 --> 38:44.640] [SPEAKER_01]: Discuss them with your with your friends and colleagues and peers and just anyone, you know, someone on the subway, whatever.
[38:44.960 --> 38:49.000] [SPEAKER_01]: But but, you know, come to come to your own opinions by yourself.
[38:49.200 --> 38:53.240] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't just get them handed to you by by some entity who who wants you to share theirs.
[38:53.760 --> 38:55.000] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you had multiple sources.
[38:55.220 --> 38:57.040] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there's nothing wrong with looking at news on Facebook.
[38:57.320 --> 39:02.100] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, I get I get I consider the source, you know, try to diversify your source of information.
[39:02.100 --> 39:09.960] [SPEAKER_03]: I learned that back in back in the 70s and 80s when I was listening to international shortwave radio and listening to news coverage from.
[39:10.060 --> 39:12.500] [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, there's fireworks going out here in Philadelphia.
[39:13.000 --> 39:13.920] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not gunshots.
[39:14.080 --> 39:14.320] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't worry.
[39:15.160 --> 39:16.080] [SPEAKER_03]: I hope it's not gunshots.
[39:16.080 --> 39:31.400] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, just getting information about news stories from, you know, both the Voice of America and Radio Moscow, both the BBC and Radio Argentina during the war over the Falkland Islands.
[39:31.500 --> 39:36.580] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this is fascinating hearing listening in governments actually spin news.
[39:36.900 --> 39:53.580] [SPEAKER_03]: But if you listen to enough different sources, you begin to to whether they're state media or independent media, whether it's people's writing magazine articles, which can be great, great, or blog articles, online articles, or there's so many sources of information.
[39:53.800 --> 39:57.080] [SPEAKER_03]: Please try to diversify your news sources.
[39:57.240 --> 39:58.480] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't look at all in one place.
[39:58.580 --> 40:00.040] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't look at Google News.
[40:00.460 --> 40:03.280] [SPEAKER_03]: There's so many sources of information, not just WBAI.
[40:03.980 --> 40:04.340] [SPEAKER_03]: Diversify.
[40:04.580 --> 40:10.860] [SPEAKER_03]: And really, you know, you can form your own better educated opinion when you get it from a lot of different sources.
[40:11.000 --> 40:14.100] [SPEAKER_03]: Things start to coalesce and you begin to, like, see the bigger picture.
[40:14.100 --> 40:17.160] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, ah, okay, now I see what's going on here.
[40:17.320 --> 40:27.720] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, the real strength and the real beauty of the media environment we have now with Internet access being so widespread is that there is so much out there and we have access to just about all of it.
[40:28.060 --> 40:30.620] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that means we can follow up on things.
[40:30.740 --> 40:31.920] [SPEAKER_01]: We can explore for ourselves.
[40:32.160 --> 40:35.100] [SPEAKER_01]: We can find what we want to know.
[40:35.220 --> 40:38.160] [SPEAKER_01]: We can find it, you know, from multiple sources.
[40:38.160 --> 40:39.100] [SPEAKER_01]: We can average them out.
[40:39.100 --> 40:53.240] [SPEAKER_01]: We can get our citations together and we can really just, more than I think at any point in our history, we can come to our own honest, balanced opinions about things at such an amazing rate.
[40:53.420 --> 41:03.460] [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's, you know, we see new monopolies pop up and it's just, I think, kind of sad and against what we're trying to do with this whole damn Internet thing.
[41:05.040 --> 41:08.560] [SPEAKER_03]: This is about the time, Rob, where we would take listener phone calls.
[41:08.720 --> 41:09.020] [SPEAKER_03]: It is.
[41:09.180 --> 41:25.240] [SPEAKER_03]: Because Kyle's not here with us tonight and he hasn't brought his amazing contraption using a cell phone to receive through Google Voice phone calls to the WBAI studio, which has no active phone lines at this time to the studio.
[41:25.720 --> 41:27.420] [SPEAKER_03]: We're not going to be able to take listener calls.
[41:27.720 --> 41:31.020] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, do you have access to email there in the studio right now or not?
[41:31.020 --> 41:31.260] [SPEAKER_03]: I do.
[41:31.420 --> 41:37.580] [SPEAKER_01]: I actually thought instead of listener phone calls, we can catch up on some of our listener emails that we have.
[41:38.460 --> 41:41.200] [SPEAKER_01]: The first one, it comes from our friend Bicycle Mark.
[41:41.380 --> 41:43.860] [SPEAKER_01]: He's always been a friend of the show for a very long time.
[41:44.260 --> 41:47.280] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's rather sad news.
[41:47.780 --> 41:59.300] [SPEAKER_01]: He talks of a fellow called Matthew Dons, known as Kara Moon, who is a British hacker based in Tokyo, friend to many, many in the hacker community.
[42:00.120 --> 42:03.920] [SPEAKER_01]: His name, his screen name, are very, very familiar to very, very many folks.
[42:04.060 --> 42:05.400] [SPEAKER_01]: Spoke at Hope No.
[42:05.500 --> 42:06.520] [SPEAKER_01]: 6 about Alan Turing.
[42:06.900 --> 42:08.120] [SPEAKER_01]: Gave a very interesting talk.
[42:08.980 --> 42:14.100] [SPEAKER_01]: He is, unfortunately, has been given the news that he has terminal cancer.
[42:15.960 --> 42:16.400] [SPEAKER_01]: He...
[42:16.400 --> 42:24.920] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't appear that he's got very long, but he's starting aggressive chemo and he's pursuing immune therapy, which, if it works, could give him at least a year.
[42:27.400 --> 42:29.560] [SPEAKER_01]: But, of course, such things are very expensive.
[42:30.400 --> 42:34.680] [SPEAKER_01]: And so, Kara Moon has a fundraiser going.
[42:34.860 --> 42:35.680] [SPEAKER_01]: So, if anyone...
[42:35.680 --> 42:46.680] [SPEAKER_01]: If that rings a bell for any of you listeners, and I'm sure it does for very many, or you just want to learn more about this person who means a lot to so many in our community, go to MatthewDons.org.
[42:46.680 --> 42:50.700] [SPEAKER_01]: That's Matthew, M-A-T-T-H-E-W-D-O-N-S, .org.
[42:51.120 --> 42:53.920] [SPEAKER_01]: And the fundraiser is there and all the pertinent information.
[42:54.260 --> 42:58.660] [SPEAKER_01]: So, giving what signal boost we can, we definitely...
[42:58.660 --> 43:01.580] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I remember Matthew's talk at Hope No.
[43:01.660 --> 43:01.840] [SPEAKER_01]: 6.
[43:01.980 --> 43:02.700] [SPEAKER_01]: It was very, very good.
[43:02.740 --> 43:04.000] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's on our YouTube.
[43:04.960 --> 43:06.080] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about Alan Turing.
[43:06.080 --> 43:14.340] [SPEAKER_01]: But, also, just, you know, go to MatthewDons.org, search Kara Moon on your social networks of choice.
[43:15.220 --> 43:16.720] [SPEAKER_01]: He is on a few.
[43:17.340 --> 43:24.060] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, send him what support you can, well wishes, and things of that sort.
[43:24.980 --> 43:29.680] [SPEAKER_03]: And Kara Moon is spelled with a K, K-A-R-A-M-O-O-N.
[43:29.980 --> 43:35.440] [SPEAKER_03]: And he organized the Tokyo Bar Camp and other cool stuff there.
[43:35.440 --> 43:38.880] [SPEAKER_03]: He's 36 years old, diagnosed with terminal cancer.
[43:39.020 --> 43:46.340] [SPEAKER_03]: This is a plea to extend his life, not to cure the cancer, probably, but to extend his life, because he's got a wife and a young kid.
[43:46.740 --> 43:52.620] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, that's when you really realize that each day is, each hour, each minute is precious.
[43:53.720 --> 44:08.080] [SPEAKER_03]: And what we would all give to, if we knew that our days, hours, and minutes were numbered, what would we give to stay alive, much longer, to spend time with people that we love and care about.
[44:08.640 --> 44:11.900] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's why we mentioned this on the air tonight.
[44:12.460 --> 44:12.980] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[44:13.200 --> 44:15.080] [SPEAKER_03]: One of our own community.
[44:15.460 --> 44:15.600] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[44:15.700 --> 44:20.780] [SPEAKER_01]: Bicycle Mark has a podcast on which Kara Moon was a guest discussing what's going on.
[44:20.780 --> 44:27.120] [SPEAKER_01]: You can find that at realitiespodcast.com, R-E-A-L-I-T-I-E-S podcast.com.
[44:27.340 --> 44:28.440] [SPEAKER_01]: That's Bicycle Mark's podcast.
[44:28.660 --> 44:33.720] [SPEAKER_01]: And you can find the recent episode with Matthew Don's Kara Moon on there.
[44:35.020 --> 44:35.900] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah.
[44:36.900 --> 44:39.860] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, all the best wishes from us here at Off The Hook.
[44:40.020 --> 44:45.900] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, on behalf of all of us, even those who aren't here today, you know, get well soon or, you know, feel better.
[44:45.900 --> 44:52.960] [SPEAKER_01]: And moving on to more listener email, a listener writes, Hey, I was wondering, what is the means by which radio listeners are counted?
[44:53.220 --> 44:55.920] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it that you have to send more signal out to accommodate more listeners?
[44:56.180 --> 44:57.720] [SPEAKER_01]: And then does this account for volume somehow?
[44:59.020 --> 45:00.540] [SPEAKER_01]: Bernie, what can you tell us about that?
[45:01.360 --> 45:02.360] [SPEAKER_03]: It's really interesting.
[45:02.640 --> 45:16.960] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's sort of a knowledge gap between old media, not bad media, but radio is a media where you can't measure, unlike online media, how many people are actually listening.
[45:17.100 --> 45:26.340] [SPEAKER_03]: There are companies like Arbitron that actually call people on the phone and ask them what radio stations do they listen to and what programs they do.
[45:26.500 --> 45:28.640] [SPEAKER_03]: But that's the only way radio is a passive medium.
[45:28.860 --> 45:38.120] [SPEAKER_03]: And from the standpoint of you can't tell what devices are receiving the on-air radio stream.
[45:38.300 --> 45:39.180] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not a digital stream.
[45:39.180 --> 45:44.000] [SPEAKER_03]: It's an analog signal modulated, like we talked earlier, from atop the Empire State Building.
[45:44.360 --> 45:50.680] [SPEAKER_03]: It's many thousands of watts of RF energy beaming 80 miles in all directions, plus online as well.
[45:50.740 --> 45:57.360] [SPEAKER_03]: But you can't really measure that, other than by just doing listener surveys, which is an expensive proposition that WBAI can't afford.
[45:57.540 --> 46:09.040] [SPEAKER_03]: And frankly, shouldn't have to, because most companies that do that do it for advertising purposes, so they can charge more for advertising and radio than WBAI, specifically to have no advertisers.
[46:10.420 --> 46:12.500] [SPEAKER_03]: We rely on our listeners to support the station.
[46:12.700 --> 46:18.340] [SPEAKER_03]: So the listener, Ruben, says, Hey, I was wondering, what does it mean by which radio listeners are counted?
[46:18.460 --> 46:23.000] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it that you have to send more signal ads or accommodate more listeners, and then this is a counter-volume somehow?
[46:23.240 --> 46:27.240] [SPEAKER_03]: Otherwise, would you prefer a message to be listened to, live, podcast, through the iTunes?
[46:27.240 --> 46:29.640] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we don't really care, Ruben.
[46:29.780 --> 46:32.380] [SPEAKER_03]: We would like you to listen to this radio show any way you'd like.
[46:32.520 --> 46:37.360] [SPEAKER_03]: Whether if you're within 80 miles of Manhattan, you can listen to it on 99.5 megahertz.
[46:37.540 --> 46:39.300] [SPEAKER_03]: If not, you can listen to the podcast.
[46:39.300 --> 46:46.760] [SPEAKER_03]: You can listen to it through 2600.com/offthehook.
[46:47.320 --> 46:49.000] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of ways you can listen to it.
[46:49.520 --> 46:50.680] [SPEAKER_01]: WBAI.org streams it live.
[46:50.740 --> 46:50.960] [SPEAKER_01]: So just listen.
[46:51.360 --> 46:51.480] Yep.
[46:53.020 --> 46:54.540] [SPEAKER_01]: WBAI.org streams us live.
[46:54.780 --> 46:56.280] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to listen while we're broadcasting.
[46:56.280 --> 46:56.480] [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[46:56.580 --> 46:59.320] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's also archived on WBAI.org.
[46:59.320 --> 47:01.920] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's archived on WBAI.org.
[47:01.920 --> 47:03.980] [SPEAKER_01]: It's podcast on 2600.com.
[47:04.080 --> 47:08.100] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's also rebroadcast by many generous folks at other stations around the world.
[47:08.120 --> 47:10.440] [SPEAKER_01]: And we are all about that.
[47:10.580 --> 47:17.380] [SPEAKER_01]: And we are all about folks listening to us by whichever means is best for them, is easiest for them, is most comfortable for them.
[47:17.640 --> 47:19.920] [SPEAKER_01]: Because mainly, that's why we do this show.
[47:20.100 --> 47:21.520] [SPEAKER_01]: We would like people to listen to it.
[47:21.680 --> 47:24.740] [SPEAKER_01]: And trying to dictate how they do so would be a fool's errand.
[47:24.740 --> 47:26.940] [SPEAKER_01]: And so, yeah.
[47:27.140 --> 47:27.520] [SPEAKER_01]: But thank you.
[47:27.640 --> 47:28.740] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much for that.
[47:29.920 --> 47:30.380] [SPEAKER_01]: Moving on.
[47:30.440 --> 47:31.960] [SPEAKER_01]: We have quite a lot of email.
[47:32.160 --> 47:34.840] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we spoke about things that are going on at the station and stuff.
[47:34.920 --> 47:42.060] [SPEAKER_01]: And we got just so many really kind emails showing their support and fellowship with what's going on here.
[47:43.040 --> 47:45.220] [SPEAKER_01]: Julio writes, It's, hey, off the hook, sorry about the station.
[47:45.220 --> 47:46.300] [SPEAKER_01]: I like WBAI.
[47:46.400 --> 47:47.880] [SPEAKER_01]: I listen to them from Tallahassee, Florida.
[47:48.860 --> 47:50.600] [SPEAKER_01]: That's nicely outside our broadcast area.
[47:51.640 --> 48:00.360] [SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, I'm glad to hear that the videos are done, referring to the videos at Hope that we put on our drives and our YouTube and such.
[48:00.880 --> 48:05.620] [SPEAKER_01]: I won one of the interviews with Corey as part of the Young Journalist competition and set our nation's flag on fire.
[48:05.760 --> 48:06.280] [SPEAKER_01]: It was nice.
[48:06.280 --> 48:07.340] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you.
[48:08.200 --> 48:10.300] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I didn't see that, but I heard about that.
[48:10.400 --> 48:12.300] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Julio, for sharing what you wanted to share.
[48:13.220 --> 48:19.040] [SPEAKER_01]: Julio goes on to say, I was hoping that y'all good people would post and announce that I won on your website as per the competition guidelines.
[48:19.460 --> 48:21.160] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, we have not gotten around to that yet.
[48:21.320 --> 48:27.380] [SPEAKER_01]: But in our flurry of trying to wrap up all the loose ends from Hope, we are working on that and that will happen.
[48:29.140 --> 48:31.780] [SPEAKER_01]: Just letting you know that the premiums aren't the only loose ends, says Julio.
[48:31.980 --> 48:34.200] [SPEAKER_01]: Wish I could have attended this year, but I'm a working man.
[48:34.300 --> 48:35.580] [SPEAKER_01]: Would be nice to see my name in lights, though.
[48:35.580 --> 48:38.560] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Julio, we'll certainly do what we can for you there.
[48:39.120 --> 48:42.340] [SPEAKER_01]: And you can see your name in electrons at some point in the future.
[48:42.520 --> 48:44.320] [SPEAKER_01]: You can hear your name in radio waves right now.
[48:45.100 --> 48:47.160] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much, Julio, for that email.
[48:48.060 --> 48:48.700] [SPEAKER_01]: I like that.
[48:48.800 --> 48:50.720] [SPEAKER_03]: Rob, did you come up with that, your name in electrons?
[48:50.960 --> 48:51.580] [SPEAKER_03]: Did you come up with that?
[48:52.540 --> 48:53.120] [SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty good.
[48:53.260 --> 48:55.940] [SPEAKER_01]: Someone must have said it before me, but I lay no copy of that.
[48:55.940 --> 48:56.160] [SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[48:56.340 --> 48:56.980] [SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
[48:57.080 --> 48:58.540] [SPEAKER_01]: You said your name in lights, your name in electrons.
[48:58.700 --> 48:59.260] [SPEAKER_03]: I love that.
[48:59.800 --> 49:00.540] That's very clever.
[49:00.720 --> 49:00.940] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[49:01.640 --> 49:05.560] [SPEAKER_01]: Moving on, another listener writes, It's hopefully all well continues with the station.
[49:05.800 --> 49:09.680] [SPEAKER_01]: I did not want to seem too much a downer, so I tried to verbalize station over time for listeners.
[49:10.180 --> 49:13.840] [SPEAKER_01]: I think this must be someone who called us last time.
[49:15.580 --> 49:29.200] [SPEAKER_01]: I had a time within the last 12 months where I had to make three plus calls, referring to the donation issue, where someone was trying to call our call center and not getting through, and trying to make a pledge and support this station and not getting through.
[49:29.360 --> 49:34.140] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is obviously a very bad situation for a listener-supported venue such as WPAI.
[49:34.460 --> 49:42.960] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's another in the line of technical hitches and glitches and humps that we are trying our best to surmount over here.
[49:44.040 --> 49:46.120] [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes we can do them quickly.
[49:46.280 --> 49:47.380] [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it takes a bit more time.
[49:47.500 --> 49:53.640] [SPEAKER_01]: But thank you so much for trying to support us and hopefully eventually succeeding in showing your support to this station.
[49:54.940 --> 49:57.180] [SPEAKER_03]: I like what Ryan also said.
[49:57.300 --> 49:59.300] [SPEAKER_03]: Radio is really hard to fully implement.
[49:59.540 --> 50:04.820] [SPEAKER_03]: He says, I have rabbit ears on the local TV plus a digital alarm clock with digital radio.
[50:05.420 --> 50:10.460] [SPEAKER_03]: Rotate over button frequency binds unless digital range highly tuned ramble out.
[50:10.720 --> 50:13.560] [SPEAKER_03]: In other words, it's hard to pick up a radio station unless you have a good antenna.
[50:13.680 --> 50:15.340] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just one of the beautiful things about radio.
[50:15.460 --> 50:17.060] [SPEAKER_03]: You've got to try a little bit harder.
[50:17.640 --> 50:31.420] [SPEAKER_03]: But on the premium thing, I just want to mention that Monday when I was at WPAI from Philadelphia, I went up there and I talked with our general manager, Bert Holprimers, and explained to him we've gotten a lot of emails from our listeners who have not gotten their premiums yet.
[50:31.560 --> 50:33.440] [SPEAKER_03]: And he said, please send them to me.
[50:33.500 --> 50:34.260] [SPEAKER_03]: So we're working on that.
[50:34.400 --> 50:41.140] [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to get them directly to the general manager who has now expressed a personal interest in getting all outstanding Off The Hook premiums fulfilled.
[50:41.560 --> 50:43.760] [SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to keep working on that.
[50:43.860 --> 50:47.960] [SPEAKER_03]: It's something we have not forgotten and we will not forget our most supportive listeners.
[50:48.320 --> 50:48.920] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely not.
[50:49.100 --> 50:51.220] [SPEAKER_01]: It is something that we are working on.
[50:51.340 --> 50:53.480] [SPEAKER_01]: And thank you so much to those who are bearing with us.
[50:53.560 --> 50:56.520] [SPEAKER_01]: And I know it's not by choice, but thank you anyway.
[50:56.520 --> 50:57.540] [SPEAKER_01]: It's appreciated.
[50:59.080 --> 51:00.040] [SPEAKER_01]: Jay writes this.
[51:00.360 --> 51:00.560] [SPEAKER_01]: Greetings.
[51:00.880 --> 51:04.920] [SPEAKER_01]: I respect that you'd like to make your investment back by selling high-quality DVDs of talks from the most recent Hope, etc.
[51:05.380 --> 51:10.520] [SPEAKER_01]: It means a lot to me that I can get audio only for free from Hope.net, as mentioned on this week's OTH.
[51:10.960 --> 51:14.460] [SPEAKER_01]: It is even more meaningful that I am listening to When Video is Not Standard Output.
[51:15.520 --> 51:15.920] [SPEAKER_01]: Indeed.
[51:16.140 --> 51:27.800] [SPEAKER_01]: And to explain this for those unfamiliar, When Video is Not Standard Output is the talk that was given on accessibility issues for the vision impaired that was done by our friend Neo Amsterdam, who was on this program before Hope talking about it.
[51:28.400 --> 51:29.140] [SPEAKER_01]: Very good talk.
[51:29.280 --> 51:31.740] [SPEAKER_01]: I recommend finding it yourself.
[51:32.200 --> 51:35.140] [SPEAKER_01]: You can find audio of all the talks on Hope.net.
[51:35.280 --> 51:38.480] [SPEAKER_01]: There is a little audio icon next to each talk on the list.
[51:38.820 --> 51:41.520] [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, going from there.
[51:41.740 --> 51:43.440] [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you very much.
[51:43.640 --> 51:45.000] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, check out our audio.
[51:45.180 --> 51:45.800] [SPEAKER_01]: Check out our video.
[51:46.660 --> 51:49.680] [SPEAKER_01]: And Jay also goes on to say, P.S.
[51:49.700 --> 51:51.460] [SPEAKER_01]: I enjoyed the social engineering panel this year.
[51:51.560 --> 51:58.840] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel that having a lawyer on the panel offered a new perspective on the issue because by ethics rules, they cannot be deceptive about who they are, which made it a very entertaining talk.
[51:59.460 --> 52:01.720] [SPEAKER_01]: The lawyer, of course... And that was our friend Alex.
[52:01.720 --> 52:13.160] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, our friend Alex, who is an occasional guest on this program and who was the guy with his Beyond Hope badge still on display at Hope 11.
[52:13.440 --> 52:18.180] [SPEAKER_01]: And just it was... I like the social engineering panel too.
[52:18.340 --> 52:20.280] [SPEAKER_01]: I watched it and I thought it was a lot of fun.
[52:20.460 --> 52:21.520] [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, check it out.
[52:22.540 --> 52:26.240] [SPEAKER_01]: Go to hope.net to check out the archives of the talks.
[52:27.380 --> 52:35.160] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, um, just, uh, just a couple of, just a couple other things to mention as, uh, as we head out for our last time in this slot.
[52:35.320 --> 52:39.080] [SPEAKER_01]: Remember we're on at nine, at 8 PM next week.
[52:39.420 --> 52:42.900] [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, this week is the 2600 meeting.
[52:43.140 --> 52:46.260] [SPEAKER_01]: The 2600 meetings are happening all over the world.
[52:46.360 --> 52:50.340] [SPEAKER_01]: Go to 2600.com/meetings for more info on that.
[52:50.900 --> 52:54.860] [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, with that, we say a fond goodbye.
[52:54.860 --> 52:57.460] [SPEAKER_01]: To the slot that has been our home for many, many years.
[52:58.260 --> 53:03.220] [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, look forward to the amazing things we will do in the future in our new slot.
[53:03.380 --> 53:09.120] [SPEAKER_01]: Stay tuned for the personal computer show, not their last episode, not their last episode at all.
[53:10.200 --> 53:12.900] [SPEAKER_01]: Send us email, oth@2600.com.
[53:15.360 --> 53:17.220] [SPEAKER_01]: For Off The Hook, this is Rob T.
[53:17.340 --> 53:17.660] [SPEAKER_01]: Firefly.
[53:18.600 --> 53:19.680] [SPEAKER_01]: Have a very good night.
[53:40.590 --> 53:40.990] Thanks.
[54:37.250 --> 55:02.250] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm ready to roll the end credits I'm ready to roll the end credits I'm ready to roll the end credits Ready for the curtain call You
[55:24.730 --> 55:32.430] [SPEAKER_05]: think you'll blow me off Well, maybe you are.
[55:36.390 --> 55:40.650] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe I say sour grapes.
[55:41.850 --> 55:45.310] [SPEAKER_05]: I still never want to see you again.
[56:03.960 --> 56:04.800] [SPEAKER_05]: Stop.
[56:13.040 --> 56:17.800] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm ready to roll the end credits.
[56:19.500 --> 56:24.400] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm ready to roll the end credits.
[56:25.960 --> 56:31.120] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm ready to roll the end credits.
[56:32.460 --> 56:37.720] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm ready to roll the end credits.