Off The Hook - 2017-07-26

[00:15.230 --> 00:17.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: Are you tired of fake news?
[00:18.150 --> 00:20.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're listening to The Alternative.
[00:20.310 --> 00:23.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's real news powered by real New Yorkers just like you.
[00:24.310 --> 00:29.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is WBAI 99.5 FM Resistance Radio powered by the people.
[00:30.190 --> 00:31.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: Keep it locked right here.
[00:33.250 --> 00:39.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you are listening to radio station WBAI in New York, where the time is just about eight o'clock.
[00:39.850 --> 00:42.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Time once again for another edition of Off the Wall.
[00:42.310 --> 00:43.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry, off the hook.
[00:43.890 --> 00:46.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wrong show, wrong station, wrong day, wrong time.
[02:23.900 --> 02:25.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:25.320 --> 02:28.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: The program is off the hook, not off the wall.
[02:29.420 --> 02:36.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's funny, you know, in this little known fact, in this theme, one of the lyrics is off the wall.
[02:43.800 --> 02:44.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: I Alex.
[02:44.880 --> 02:45.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello.
[02:45.600 --> 02:46.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: And Kyle.
[02:46.420 --> 02:46.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi.
[02:47.060 --> 02:53.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, here we are on this second week of our summer fundraiser.
[02:53.340 --> 02:55.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks everybody who called in for the first week.
[02:55.400 --> 02:56.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: We did quite well.
[02:56.440 --> 02:59.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: And Rob, I understand you have to do some painting now.
[02:59.700 --> 03:00.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: I do.
[03:00.480 --> 03:02.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to have to get cracking on that.
[03:02.080 --> 03:11.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the good news is there are still some of your paintings available because you basically promised to do a certain minimal number.
[03:12.180 --> 03:15.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we still can fill some of those.
[03:15.480 --> 03:23.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: If people give a call to our special pledge line 516-620-3602 and pledge, what's the exact amount?
[03:23.920 --> 03:24.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Only $50.
[03:24.900 --> 03:25.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: $50.
[03:25.760 --> 03:25.760]  $50.
[03:26.380 --> 03:31.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you pledge that to WBAI, you will get... what will they get?
[03:31.540 --> 03:38.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: You will get an original acrylic on canvas painting of a piece of historic data storage technology.
[03:38.320 --> 03:42.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Might be something modern, might be something ancient, might be somewhere from something in between.
[03:42.800 --> 03:50.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: But all of these paintings will be of various hallmarks and landmarks in the timeline of data storage.
[03:51.460 --> 03:56.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: And they'll all be brightly colored, acrylic on canvas, original paintings, not prints.
[03:56.540 --> 03:59.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: And they will be 5x7 stretch canvases.
[03:59.460 --> 04:03.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: And there's a specific phrase that people must ask for, right, when they call up.
[04:03.500 --> 04:03.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[04:03.680 --> 04:10.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you call 516-620-3602 and ask for the historic data storage painting.
[04:10.940 --> 04:16.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Or you could go to give2wbai.org and search for the historic data storage painting on there.
[04:17.240 --> 04:17.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[04:18.200 --> 04:19.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's that simple.
[04:19.260 --> 04:29.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: And again, thanks to everybody who called in last week to keep the radio station going, to keep us broadcasting, to keep us transmitting our signal throughout the world in one manner or another.
[04:29.500 --> 04:30.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's super important.
[04:31.160 --> 04:33.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this is our summer fun drive.
[04:33.560 --> 04:38.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's the smallest of the fun drives, but it's no less important because we do have to pay those bills.
[04:40.000 --> 04:40.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[04:40.520 --> 04:42.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have a question for Rob.
[04:44.040 --> 04:47.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: This really, you know, as you know, I got two of these last week.
[04:47.640 --> 04:47.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: You did?
[04:47.860 --> 04:50.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm very much looking forward to them and having them...
[04:50.900 --> 04:51.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: You didn't get them yet.
[04:51.220 --> 04:52.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, I didn't get them yet.
[04:52.020 --> 04:52.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: He hasn't painted them yet.
[04:52.620 --> 04:53.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: He hasn't painted them yet.
[04:53.440 --> 04:53.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[04:53.640 --> 04:53.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: That would be something.
[04:53.880 --> 04:59.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: But I'm wondering what he's thinking because historic data storage devices could be, could encompass quite a universe.
[04:59.480 --> 05:01.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Would something like an abacus be classified?
[05:01.440 --> 05:02.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or a brain.
[05:03.000 --> 05:05.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Brain could certainly be in historic data storage devices.
[05:05.660 --> 05:08.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's stored data for, you know, at least a little bit of time.
[05:08.900 --> 05:09.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, DNA.
[05:09.760 --> 05:10.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, you could throw that in there.
[05:10.700 --> 05:11.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's good.
[05:11.220 --> 05:11.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: RNA.
[05:12.280 --> 05:14.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: We talked about pacemakers last week.
[05:14.240 --> 05:15.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are you running out of ideas, Rob?
[05:15.740 --> 05:18.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is this why you need to use these things instead of technology?
[05:19.460 --> 05:25.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm doing my best, but it's surprisingly interesting to look into the history of these things and how they all work.
[05:25.300 --> 05:32.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: And if you get one, you will also get a little display placard that explains what it is that you have a painting of and how it worked and when it was used.
[05:33.020 --> 05:37.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: You could have a picture of the placard because the placard itself is storing data, isn't it?
[05:37.000 --> 05:39.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's getting into recursion.
[05:39.260 --> 05:40.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's also getting into recursion.
[05:41.180 --> 05:43.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's pretty funny.
[05:43.560 --> 05:43.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[05:43.740 --> 05:43.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[05:44.220 --> 05:51.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, folks, we're going to have to rely on you calling us up because we have no way of knowing how many people are calling in.
[05:51.960 --> 05:53.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: We can't see the phones lighting up here.
[05:54.080 --> 05:57.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: And in fact, we can't even see the emails that come in because somebody logged out.
[05:57.340 --> 06:01.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: And so we have no idea how many people are calling in to pledge.
[06:02.600 --> 06:14.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: So we just hope that there are people out there who are going to call in during this hour to 516-620-3602 or to give And pledge for these paintings.
[06:15.160 --> 06:19.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or pledge for whatever else you feel is something that we're offering that you might like.
[06:19.920 --> 06:21.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's a whole list of things on the website.
[06:22.080 --> 06:29.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: And also, if you're just interested in pledging, period, you can make that as simple as possible by texting.
[06:29.580 --> 06:32.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: By texting a special shortcode that we have.
[06:33.800 --> 06:37.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: 41444 is the special shortcode that we have.
[06:38.000 --> 06:40.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: And text the letters WBAI.
[06:40.180 --> 06:43.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you will be able to pledge in that manner as well.
[06:43.880 --> 06:45.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: And there's all kinds of options.
[06:45.620 --> 06:46.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think you can have a recurring payment.
[06:47.060 --> 06:48.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can have a one-time payment.
[06:48.620 --> 06:50.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can pledge something like $5 a month.
[06:50.820 --> 06:54.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that comes out to be, what, $60 a year.
[06:54.080 --> 06:55.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Which is not insignificant.
[06:56.120 --> 06:57.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: But rather painless.
[06:57.680 --> 06:58.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: So there are all kinds of options.
[06:59.100 --> 07:03.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we're using technology to embrace those options.
[07:03.080 --> 07:07.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: So the important thing is to do something to help WBAI stay on the air.
[07:07.920 --> 07:10.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because that is how we've stayed on the air since 1960.
[07:11.260 --> 07:12.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: It works.
[07:12.580 --> 07:15.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's something that people realize the value of.
[07:15.940 --> 07:17.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: This particular radio station here.
[07:17.800 --> 07:19.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Especially on a day like this.
[07:19.280 --> 07:21.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Where Trump's really gone mad again.
[07:21.720 --> 07:23.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: And is lashing out at everybody.
[07:24.580 --> 07:26.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: And a lot of people feeling the pain.
[07:26.460 --> 07:28.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: This demonstration is going on right now in Manhattan.
[07:28.280 --> 07:32.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I imagine throughout the country about his latest attack on the trans community.
[07:34.000 --> 07:34.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Latest.
[07:34.600 --> 07:35.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it won't be the last either.
[07:35.820 --> 07:37.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it won't be the last community that is attacked.
[07:38.000 --> 07:42.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: We will need a station like WBAI to keep people informed of the latest.
[07:42.800 --> 07:44.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: The latest in the carnage.
[07:44.300 --> 07:45.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the latest in the resistance.
[07:46.020 --> 07:47.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because this is where we organize.
[07:47.960 --> 07:51.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is where we talk about what do we do now.
[07:51.460 --> 07:55.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: And hopefully we see some results.
[07:56.220 --> 07:56.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[07:56.720 --> 07:59.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we have been doing this since 1960.
[07:59.040 --> 08:01.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the only thing that has kept this station on the air.
[08:01.920 --> 08:02.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't get grants.
[08:02.640 --> 08:03.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't get sponsorships.
[08:04.000 --> 08:09.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't get any fancy checks from large corporations that would like us to feature their products and services.
[08:09.840 --> 08:12.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: All we do is what we're doing right now.
[08:12.920 --> 08:14.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Which is ask the listeners.
[08:14.280 --> 08:15.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: You the listeners.
[08:15.320 --> 08:16.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: To show your support.
[08:16.660 --> 08:18.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: And throw in a little something.
[08:18.660 --> 08:19.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: To keep us on the air.
[08:19.620 --> 08:20.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever you can afford.
[08:20.200 --> 08:21.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you're into donating $50.
[08:22.180 --> 08:24.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can get my Historic Data Storage painting as a premium.
[08:24.940 --> 08:26.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you'd like to donate less.
[08:26.720 --> 08:27.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Or a different amount.
[08:27.940 --> 08:30.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Or if you'd like to just donate without getting a premium.
[08:30.200 --> 08:31.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can donate any amount you wish.
[08:31.540 --> 08:34.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Just call 516-620-3602.
[08:34.780 --> 08:36.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Or go to gif2wbai.org.
[08:37.260 --> 08:40.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: And mark your donation as in the name of your favorite show.
[08:40.920 --> 08:41.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Which we hope is off the hook.
[08:41.960 --> 08:42.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's certainly ours.
[08:43.460 --> 08:45.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: And do what you can to help this.
[08:45.660 --> 08:46.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Keep this going.
[08:46.320 --> 08:49.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is what's been going on for 57 years now.
[08:50.900 --> 08:52.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: 57 years of just this.
[08:53.700 --> 08:55.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's crazy that it's worked so far.
[08:55.880 --> 08:58.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think we need to keep being this crazy.
[08:58.880 --> 08:59.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wow.
[08:59.960 --> 09:00.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[09:01.000 --> 09:02.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Kyle, is that something you want to share with us?
[09:02.660 --> 09:04.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or is that something we don't quite know if we have yet?
[09:04.820 --> 09:07.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think I can share this with everyone.
[09:07.920 --> 09:10.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's two limited packages.
[09:10.760 --> 09:12.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Our general manager just came in here.
[09:12.680 --> 09:13.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: He did.
[09:13.300 --> 09:13.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Some books.
[09:14.160 --> 09:15.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: He wanted us to know this.
[09:15.760 --> 09:17.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, physically have them in our hands.
[09:17.800 --> 09:23.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is late-breaking additions to, I believe, what we're offering already.
[09:23.980 --> 09:29.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have two of a particular book at the $40 level that we would like to make available.
[09:30.080 --> 09:34.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it is called Hack This, 24 Incredible Hackerspace Projects.
[09:34.500 --> 09:37.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the other pack is at the $70 pledge level.
[09:37.680 --> 09:39.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we have five of these available.
[09:39.880 --> 09:42.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it is a two-book package.
[09:42.740 --> 09:46.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: One book being Beautiful Lego by Mark Doyle.
[09:46.920 --> 09:51.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: All about Legos and beautiful, beautiful Lego projects.
[09:51.380 --> 09:52.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: Great photography in there.
[09:52.980 --> 09:54.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then also Teach Your Kids to Code.
[09:54.640 --> 09:56.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: So there's five of those.
[09:56.480 --> 10:00.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then two at the $40 level of Hack This.
[10:01.160 --> 10:01.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[10:01.720 --> 10:07.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: So when you call 516-620-3602, be sure to ask for those specific packages.
[10:07.540 --> 10:08.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: What were they again, Kyle?
[10:08.720 --> 10:09.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: The two?
[10:09.860 --> 10:10.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sure.
[10:10.360 --> 10:10.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hack This?
[10:11.020 --> 10:12.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's at the $40 level.
[10:12.720 --> 10:14.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: The book is called Hack This.
[10:14.640 --> 10:14.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[10:14.900 --> 10:20.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think if you indicate that, we'll be able to track it and make sure it gets to you.
[10:20.680 --> 10:22.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: And when we run out, we run out.
[10:22.500 --> 10:26.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: So if that happens, we'll definitely let you know.
[10:26.200 --> 10:33.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: The other one is, I would say the Coding and Beautiful Lego pack, we'll say it's at the $70 level.
[10:33.900 --> 10:36.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Or just say Two Hacker Book Pack, maybe.
[10:36.820 --> 10:38.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, are we guessing what it's called?
[10:38.840 --> 10:40.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because you have to get the phrasing just right.
[10:40.560 --> 10:41.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm trying to get that information.
[10:41.580 --> 10:41.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[10:42.300 --> 10:42.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Beautiful Lego.
[10:42.580 --> 10:42.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Rob was on it.
[10:43.200 --> 10:45.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: It might be the Teach Your Kids to Code package.
[10:45.240 --> 10:46.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think it is.
[10:46.220 --> 10:47.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Teach Your Kids to Code.
[10:47.680 --> 10:49.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then you get Beautiful Lego as a part of that.
[10:50.040 --> 10:52.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's two books at the $70 level.
[10:52.140 --> 10:54.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we have about just under half a dozen of those.
[10:55.140 --> 11:02.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: So we'll update people on that as we learn more about what it's actually called and how available it is.
[11:02.220 --> 11:07.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Suffice to say, we will get you as close to what you wish to have.
[11:07.900 --> 11:13.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we have a variety of things to thank you for supporting WBAI.
[11:13.400 --> 11:18.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, off the hook, the longest running hacker radio show...
[11:18.820 --> 11:19.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: On this station.
[11:19.580 --> 11:20.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: ...in America.
[11:20.320 --> 11:20.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yeah.
[11:20.760 --> 11:21.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: That too.
[11:21.600 --> 11:22.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[11:22.420 --> 11:22.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Definitely.
[11:23.020 --> 11:26.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll wear that badge of honor or curse or whatever it is.
[11:27.080 --> 11:27.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[11:27.480 --> 11:28.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: I have the screen up now.
[11:28.760 --> 11:29.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: We do have the...
[11:29.880 --> 11:33.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: For a pledge of $75, you can get Beautiful Lego and Teach Your Kids to Code.
[11:33.640 --> 11:33.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wait.
[11:33.920 --> 11:34.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: So the numbers didn't even match.
[11:35.140 --> 11:35.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[11:35.320 --> 11:36.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: You were saying $70.
[11:36.280 --> 11:36.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: $75?
[11:37.620 --> 11:38.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's $75.
[11:39.320 --> 11:41.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: You could get the books Beautiful Lego and Teach Your Kids to Code.
[11:41.140 --> 11:41.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: He wrote it down.
[11:41.760 --> 11:42.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: He wrote $70.
[11:42.800 --> 11:43.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Give him a break.
[11:43.580 --> 11:43.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: $75.
[11:45.020 --> 11:46.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: I just like accuracy and media.
[11:46.820 --> 11:46.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[11:47.020 --> 11:47.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[11:47.260 --> 11:48.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: The suggested price on the site is $75.
[11:49.320 --> 11:49.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[11:49.700 --> 11:51.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Pardon me for misspeaking.
[11:51.220 --> 11:52.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we've only got five of this package.
[11:52.940 --> 11:53.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's written in front of you.
[11:53.600 --> 11:54.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're not misspeaking.
[11:54.940 --> 11:57.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is there anything else in the room you'd like to draw attention to?
[11:57.380 --> 11:57.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, no, no.
[11:57.920 --> 11:58.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think I'm just...
[11:58.760 --> 11:58.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[11:59.260 --> 12:00.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: Full disclosure is all.
[12:00.440 --> 12:00.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[12:00.820 --> 12:02.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: So we have Beautiful Lego and Teach Your Kids to Code.
[12:03.080 --> 12:04.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what this package is called.
[12:04.260 --> 12:05.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's only five in stock.
[12:05.340 --> 12:10.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: These are books that we've offered in fundraisers past and we've found some extra copies of.
[12:11.040 --> 12:12.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: So we're offering those while we can.
[12:12.860 --> 12:14.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: 516-620-3602.
[12:15.060 --> 12:16.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Very limited time for those.
[12:16.740 --> 12:16.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[12:16.920 --> 12:18.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: And very limited phone circuits, too.
[12:18.320 --> 12:19.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: So be sure to jump on them quickly.
[12:20.000 --> 12:26.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Or for a pledge of $40, you can get Hack This by John Bakedill, which is full of incredible hackerspace projects.
[12:26.400 --> 12:28.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's an exclamation point at the end of Hack This.
[12:28.920 --> 12:31.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just to let you know, this is an active book.
[12:31.200 --> 12:32.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's an exciting book.
[12:32.340 --> 12:35.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it might not be listed the right way if you don't include the exclamation point.
[12:36.140 --> 12:37.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's actually just called Hack This.
[12:38.080 --> 12:40.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: In our system, it's called Hack This without the exclamation point.
[12:40.780 --> 12:43.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: You see, that's how you wind up going down the wrong road.
[12:44.300 --> 12:47.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: You leave out a punctuation mark like that and who knows what you wind up getting.
[12:48.280 --> 12:52.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: You might get Hack This, that boring book that doesn't have any enthusiasm.
[12:52.760 --> 12:54.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: This one's got an exclamation point.
[12:54.360 --> 12:55.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the one you're going to get.
[12:55.540 --> 12:57.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are they all signed as well?
[12:57.220 --> 12:58.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because the copy I'm looking at is signed.
[12:58.860 --> 12:59.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why are you asking me?
[12:59.040 --> 13:00.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't know these books existed before.
[13:00.600 --> 13:01.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow, that's a good question.
[13:02.200 --> 13:03.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know why I'm asking you.
[13:03.600 --> 13:06.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: If one is signed, odds are they didn't just sign one.
[13:06.700 --> 13:12.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because I'm seeing a beautiful signature of somebody I presume is John Bakedill.
[13:12.860 --> 13:14.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: The author of the book, yes.
[13:14.340 --> 13:15.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, the author of the book.
[13:15.420 --> 13:16.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's generally who signs them, right?
[13:17.100 --> 13:18.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a good idea.
[13:18.140 --> 13:19.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't sign books that you didn't write, folks.
[13:20.200 --> 13:21.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's really rude.
[13:21.140 --> 13:21.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: It is kind of funny to do.
[13:21.880 --> 13:24.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: People go into bookstores and they sign all kinds of, you know.
[13:24.400 --> 13:24.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[13:25.120 --> 13:26.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: To kill a mockingbird and the Great Gatsby.
[13:27.000 --> 13:27.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's inappropriate.
[13:27.780 --> 13:28.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't do that.
[13:28.260 --> 13:32.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: You could get a Donald Trump stamp with that ridiculous signature of his and just sign children's books.
[13:33.300 --> 13:34.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: That would be fun.
[13:34.180 --> 13:35.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: That would mortify them.
[13:35.480 --> 13:37.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: That would traumatize them for life.
[13:37.180 --> 13:38.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it would be something fun.
[13:38.360 --> 13:40.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: He's scaring them already with rallies that he's having.
[13:41.040 --> 13:42.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: I know, actually.
[13:42.200 --> 13:42.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: The kids' rallies.
[13:42.620 --> 13:43.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's a good point.
[13:43.280 --> 13:43.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[13:44.660 --> 13:49.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then right at the end of it, he couldn't help himself but to take a dig at the media as well.
[13:50.080 --> 13:50.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: At the end of it?
[13:50.780 --> 13:51.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think it was throughout it.
[13:52.120 --> 13:54.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: I couldn't stomach the entirety.
[13:54.400 --> 13:55.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, none of us can.
[13:56.440 --> 13:58.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: But anyway, hopefully you can stomach us.
[13:58.960 --> 14:08.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hopefully you can get your dialing fingers engaged and give a call to 516-620-3602 and pledge for any of these packages.
[14:09.380 --> 14:10.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'd love to hear from you.
[14:10.500 --> 14:14.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's just great to know that our listeners are out there and that they care.
[14:15.180 --> 14:21.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that we'll be here in weeks and months and years to come to talk about what's going on in the world of technology.
[14:22.080 --> 14:23.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we want to do that tonight.
[14:23.220 --> 14:24.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: We want to do as much of that as possible.
[14:24.480 --> 14:27.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: We also want to take phone calls a little later on.
[14:27.460 --> 14:28.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Phone calls here into the studio.
[14:28.820 --> 14:29.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Different phone number.
[14:30.080 --> 14:32.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: So don't call it now because we're not going to take it now.
[14:32.440 --> 14:37.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it just proves that you're trying to cut ahead in line if you start ringing that one phone line we have.
[14:37.600 --> 14:42.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll give the number out and that's when we'll start looking at that flashing light.
[14:42.420 --> 14:44.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I'm looking at all these books here.
[14:45.000 --> 14:46.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: They really are absolutely beautiful.
[14:46.680 --> 14:52.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: But I would say they pale in comparison, in my opinion, to Rob's artwork here.
[14:52.380 --> 14:53.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, and there's quite a few left.
[14:54.720 --> 15:03.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: I would suggest, you know, in terms of dollar value and staying power and uniqueness, what Rob is offering here is really great.
[15:03.060 --> 15:05.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it has the added benefit of keeping him busy.
[15:05.860 --> 15:08.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because if he's not busy, you know what happens.
[15:08.920 --> 15:09.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: I do.
[15:09.320 --> 15:10.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Bad things happen.
[15:10.300 --> 15:14.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, idle hands and the devil, something like that, right?
[15:14.600 --> 15:15.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are the devil's playground?
[15:15.940 --> 15:16.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: There you have it.
[15:16.840 --> 15:17.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: You guys know me too well.
[15:18.380 --> 15:24.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you can prevent all that by giving a call to 516-620-3602 and asking for the what's the name of the package again?
[15:25.060 --> 15:25.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't want to get it right.
[15:26.180 --> 15:29.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: For a pledge of $50, you can get the Historic Data Storage Painting.
[15:30.020 --> 15:33.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: But for a pledge of $40, you can get Hack This by John Bakedal.
[15:33.500 --> 15:38.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: And for a pledge of $75, you can get the beautiful Lego and Teach Your Kids to Code package.
[15:38.940 --> 15:48.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: And all of these, not just my paintings, but all of these are works by members of the hacker community trying to create and educate and enlighten.
[15:48.960 --> 15:53.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: And at the end of the day, that's what we're about here at WBAI and here at Off The Hook.
[15:53.720 --> 15:56.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is the only thing that can keep that going.
[15:56.520 --> 16:02.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: So call 516-620-3602 or go to gif2wbai.org and do what you can to help.
[16:02.640 --> 16:10.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think it's important to mention also that on this program, we make a point to have everything that is offered be a donation.
[16:10.460 --> 16:12.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're donating your time to make the paintings.
[16:12.680 --> 16:14.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: These books have been donated to us.
[16:14.840 --> 16:22.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Everything that we offer is also another donation to the radio station that we give to those people who call in and donate.
[16:22.660 --> 16:25.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it's a lot of giving going on.
[16:25.360 --> 16:34.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: A lot of giving, but there's also a lot of getting because if you're out there listening on the radio or on the Internet, you're hopefully getting something out of this program.
[16:34.220 --> 16:38.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'd like to think, we've been doing this since 1988, that people are getting something out of it.
[16:38.760 --> 16:39.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, is it a good idea?
[16:39.840 --> 16:40.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Should we keep going?
[16:41.320 --> 16:43.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think, you know, the votes are in.
[16:43.420 --> 16:53.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think we're, you know, we've got a following of sorts and certainly on the Hacker Radio Show Twitter feed, we have a lot of people following that as well.
[16:53.400 --> 16:54.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have people on IRC channels.
[16:55.620 --> 16:59.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have spontaneous gatherings all across the country of people who listen at the same time.
[17:01.080 --> 17:04.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's off the hook as a tradition and we want to keep that tradition going.
[17:04.660 --> 17:07.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: 516-620-3602.
[17:07.520 --> 17:10.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, so some of the news that's been going on.
[17:11.160 --> 17:12.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Alex, I want to ask you about this.
[17:12.300 --> 17:15.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Have you heard about this heated legal battle involving Snopes?
[17:15.820 --> 17:17.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have not, actually.
[17:17.420 --> 17:17.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Really?
[17:17.700 --> 17:19.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, well, let me be the one to tell you.
[17:19.460 --> 17:19.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Enlighten me.
[17:19.960 --> 17:21.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: We know what Snopes is.
[17:21.240 --> 17:26.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're the fact-checking website that basically debunks Internet rumors.
[17:28.120 --> 17:32.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: But they've expanded quite a bit because there's a lot more lying going on lately.
[17:32.820 --> 17:36.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: So they now have 16 people working for them.
[17:36.420 --> 17:39.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: They basically call out political leaders for dishonesty.
[17:40.160 --> 17:41.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: But here's the thing.
[17:41.300 --> 17:46.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: They found themselves locked into a legal battle that has drained all the money they need to survive.
[17:47.060 --> 17:49.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, they get all their revenue from advertising.
[17:49.800 --> 17:58.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: They had to create a crowdfunding page this Monday seeking half a million dollars, $500,000, from readers to remain operational indefinitely.
[17:59.200 --> 18:05.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, there's this company called Proper Media that apparently isn't acting so proper, according to Snopes.
[18:05.480 --> 18:12.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're the vendor that runs its advertising services, and they've been withholding the site's revenue and refusing to relinquish control of the site.
[18:12.760 --> 18:16.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that leaves the company that owns and operates Snopes.
[18:16.540 --> 18:19.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Does anybody know the name of the company that owns and operates Snopes?
[18:19.160 --> 18:19.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Trivia question here.
[18:20.420 --> 18:20.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: No?
[18:21.220 --> 18:21.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[18:21.640 --> 18:23.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's called Bardav, B-A-R-D-A-V.
[18:23.980 --> 18:25.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's a little bit of trivia for you.
[18:26.480 --> 18:31.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Basically, that leaves that company with no way of moving the site to a new host or installing its own ads.
[18:32.420 --> 18:34.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: They say we have no income whatsoever.
[18:34.200 --> 18:37.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: We've had no income whatsoever for the last several months.
[18:39.060 --> 18:42.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the future looked rather bleak.
[18:42.140 --> 18:44.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, Proper Media is telling a very different story.
[18:44.920 --> 18:59.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: They say Snopes employees are continuing to get paid from the advertising revenue and that this is basically not entirely true or not true at all, what is being said here.
[19:00.100 --> 19:02.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, it's really kind of interesting.
[19:02.620 --> 19:13.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: They say that the CEO, the founder of the site, David Mickelson, should be removed from the company because of wasteful spending.
[19:13.080 --> 19:21.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, the two sides have sued each other in separate claims, present entirely conflicting descriptions of who owns the company and what is being withheld from whom.
[19:21.580 --> 19:26.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the earliest chance for a resolution appears to be a court hearing scheduled for next week.
[19:26.480 --> 19:27.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, that's what's going on with Snopes.
[19:28.240 --> 19:29.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: But let me ask you this.
[19:29.340 --> 19:31.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, why is Proper Media...
[19:31.360 --> 19:34.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's their alleged justification for withholding this revenue?
[19:34.620 --> 19:36.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they're saying they're not doing it.
[19:36.120 --> 19:36.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the thing.
[19:36.880 --> 19:41.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, they're saying the money is going over to Snopes or DBA, Bardav.
[19:41.640 --> 19:43.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, here's the thing.
[19:43.320 --> 19:45.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's got to do with ownership and control.
[19:45.960 --> 19:51.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mr. Mickelson, the founder, owns 50% of the Bardav shares.
[19:53.740 --> 20:00.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: And other entities apparently have more power as well.
[20:00.920 --> 20:08.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Like, for instance, there's a Proper Media Officer named Drew Shantrop who has a seat on a two-person board alongside Mr. Mickelson.
[20:08.660 --> 20:09.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's conflict here.
[20:09.820 --> 20:12.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: People, they have a stake in the company at Proper Media.
[20:12.940 --> 20:19.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, apparently, there's some kind of a dispute going on with who controls the site, who maintains the funds.
[20:20.100 --> 20:21.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: It sounds to me like it's a complete disaster.
[20:21.940 --> 20:22.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a complete disaster.
[20:22.820 --> 20:26.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: It also sounds to me like, you know, we may lose a valuable outlet over this as well.
[20:26.920 --> 20:40.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, if it's true that they're withholding funding or withholding revenue from Snopes, they're weakening them and then at the same time causing them to spend probably a ridiculous amount of money on lawyers to pursue this claim.
[20:40.120 --> 20:40.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[20:40.520 --> 20:48.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, you know, this is just part and parcel of the tactical skirmishing that goes on with the legal system in general.
[20:48.140 --> 20:52.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: There is a hearing scheduled for August 4th and hopefully some clarity will come after that.
[20:52.640 --> 21:06.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, Proper Media wants the judge to remove Mr. Mickelson from the company and the Bardav part of all this, the ones who own Snopes, is hoping the judge requires Proper Media to hand over the rest of the advertising revenue.
[21:07.700 --> 21:20.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, I think what we need is we need a Snopes page about this to basically dismiss the mistruths and to basically give it a score as to how true the story actually is.
[21:20.420 --> 21:27.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the good news for Snopes, depending on what you believe Snopes is, they've gone over their 500,000.
[21:27.340 --> 21:30.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: In fact, I think they're at 560,000 and they did that in only a few days.
[21:31.240 --> 21:31.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's fantastic.
[21:32.180 --> 21:36.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, it's good to know that if things like that happen that the Internet has your back.
[21:36.960 --> 21:37.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[21:37.440 --> 21:50.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, this also just underscores a real point that I think may resonate with some of our listeners, which is the need to have really clear corporate governance no matter how big or small your entity is, even with a startup company with three or four people,
[21:50.580 --> 22:00.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: you really need to have very clear lines of ownership and direction, clear accounting of funds, because otherwise you could end up in a morass just like they have.
[22:00.420 --> 22:00.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[22:00.800 --> 22:03.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's, you know, this is going to be a complete disaster.
[22:03.320 --> 22:07.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: I guarantee you that at that August 4th hearing, there's going to be very little clarity that comes out of it.
[22:08.020 --> 22:10.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: These things take a long time to wind through the legal system.
[22:10.900 --> 22:16.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: And unless a settlement is reached, there is really no way to predict how this is going to go.
[22:16.680 --> 22:27.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, this kind of infighting within any kind of organization, whether it's Pacifica, whether it's Snopes, whether it's, you know, a bunch of hackers or a bunch of Democrats, it doesn't make you look good.
[22:27.640 --> 22:31.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: It doesn't appeal to people who are not already involved to become involved.
[22:32.200 --> 22:37.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's very important to maintain a unified front if you're doing something along these lines.
[22:37.680 --> 22:40.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, it's very unfortunate that it came to this.
[22:41.120 --> 22:46.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's good to know that, you know, people are there to save them if it really does turn into more of a disaster.
[22:47.260 --> 22:52.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: But it's best not to go down that road in the first place and to think of everything you can to avoid this.
[22:52.820 --> 23:04.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: And sometimes that means doing things in a non-traditional way, not having a traditional board of directors or going public or, you know, whatever it is that leads to these corporate battles.
[23:04.220 --> 23:06.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think you're entirely right.
[23:06.440 --> 23:15.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's unfortunate, too, that it's going to be very distracting from their real purpose, which is to sniff out falsehoods and make them publicly known.
[23:16.500 --> 23:17.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: So let's see.
[23:17.360 --> 23:18.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's keep tracking this.
[23:18.800 --> 23:19.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, definitely.
[23:19.700 --> 23:19.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Rob?
[23:20.040 --> 23:24.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: The whole dot-com boom, and Snopes has been around for a very long time, since the 90s, I believe.
[23:25.960 --> 23:32.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: It really illustrates how it behooves any of us when we start up a project or when we start up a business or something.
[23:33.380 --> 23:37.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: And things like concerns like the website and advertising and whatever come along.
[23:37.720 --> 23:44.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have to be aware, really, of how much control you're handing over to this service or that entity when you're signing whatever papers you're signing.
[23:45.580 --> 24:00.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because if you're in a situation like this, if you've got your own backups and you've got your own wherewithal to just uproot it and put it up someplace else and continue on from scratch, I mean, that's something to consider.
[24:01.640 --> 24:03.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: The industry has come a long ways, too.
[24:03.440 --> 24:20.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think we've had to be more savvy with the advent of a lot of the tech firms or Web 2.0, like service companies and so on, because this stuff we learn.
[24:20.560 --> 24:23.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: We learn from the bubbles of the 90s and so on.
[24:23.780 --> 24:26.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: And so it really does matter.
[24:26.980 --> 24:52.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: And now that may have been a weakness when Snopes was established way back when that perhaps a lot of startups now wouldn't actually encounter because the tech industry has matured such that these are the things that are not left undone, which may have been a mistake in Snopes' distant past being a sort of original company.
[24:52.760 --> 24:57.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think you bring up a good point, Kyle, in that, you know, we learn from the mistakes of the past.
[24:58.860 --> 25:05.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Unfortunately, it seems like a lot of the mistakes from which we've learned in the past are generally business mistakes that affect business decisions.
[25:05.640 --> 25:06.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, yeah, that's kind of what I meant.
[25:06.280 --> 25:21.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's like the tech, like people that have the skill in technology aren't necessarily business, really good entrepreneurially with business per se, or law.
[25:22.040 --> 25:29.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that the crossover now, you find a lot more crossover now with new companies, people starting out.
[25:30.660 --> 25:41.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're very quick to bring those people on board with an idea, whether it's intellectual property or other business liabilities.
[25:41.400 --> 25:42.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I agree.
[25:42.920 --> 25:49.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, so I feel like I've been saying a lot lately in my day job, you know, people who are good at chess are generally bad at life.
[25:50.320 --> 25:51.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: And maybe not vice versa.
[25:52.080 --> 25:59.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: But that we do see this, you know, to go back to the hacker subject of our show, we've learned a lot in terms of business decisions.
[25:59.880 --> 26:06.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: But we still see the same idiotic mistakes being made from an information security standpoint, or a hacker standpoint.
[26:06.520 --> 26:10.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: And people just don't seem to be learning from major mistakes in the past.
[26:10.660 --> 26:12.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Think about the Sony breach a couple of years ago.
[26:13.040 --> 26:25.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, huge, major public embarrassment, international embarrassment for Sony, because people put really dumb things in unencrypted clear text emails that were stored on a server that was breached.
[26:25.940 --> 26:28.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Then look at what happened to the DNC.
[26:28.440 --> 26:29.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, we see the same thing.
[26:30.000 --> 26:35.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: When are people going to wake up and stop putting these things in writing, number one, or at least encrypting them?
[26:35.780 --> 26:40.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think it's part of the transition to tech platforms for a lot of these companies.
[26:41.080 --> 26:50.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: They've just now transitioned to a place where maybe their offices are a lot less filled with paper and sort of the older ways of doing business.
[26:50.680 --> 27:10.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: So we don't have a lot of concrete, like concrete recent memory of running really large and layered networks of the scale and size that entities are relying on.
[27:10.540 --> 27:18.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they're just relying on them to have the regular course of business happen to say nothing of responding to an incident.
[27:18.780 --> 27:20.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: So this is new territory.
[27:20.900 --> 27:31.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Actually, when you look at the history of to have as many companies relying so much on networks and data that we're still getting good at running big networks, I think.
[27:32.200 --> 27:34.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think you're right about that.
[27:34.400 --> 27:40.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we need to get better at it a lot more quickly, both structurally in the businesses, but also behaviorally.
[27:40.380 --> 27:40.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: Absolutely.
[27:41.400 --> 27:46.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, staying on the subject of lawyers for a moment, this is actually something I've been sitting on since January.
[27:46.760 --> 27:50.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've always wanted to focus on this particular story about Instagram.
[27:50.380 --> 27:52.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: It must be quite warm by now.
[27:52.360 --> 27:56.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's yeah, I've been sitting on for almost six months now, more than six months.
[27:57.000 --> 28:03.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway, in the UK, more than half of 12 to 15 year olds are on Instagram.
[28:04.260 --> 28:13.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: According to Ofcom, the country's communications regulator, so are 43% of eight to 11 year olds, eight year olds with Instagram accounts.
[28:13.380 --> 28:13.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Amazing.
[28:14.180 --> 28:17.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: How many of them actually understand what they signed when they joined?
[28:17.300 --> 28:18.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Pretty much zero percent.
[28:18.940 --> 28:24.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's according to Growing Up Digital, which was a report released in January by the UK children's commissioner.
[28:24.920 --> 28:25.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's right.
[28:25.380 --> 28:27.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: The UK has a children's commissioner.
[28:27.320 --> 28:31.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: We need eight year olds to do a dramatic reading of some end user license agreement.
[28:32.140 --> 28:42.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you might get that because what happened was a lawyer basically wrote, rewrote the policy in child friendly language.
[28:43.000 --> 28:43.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, in kid terms.
[28:43.620 --> 28:43.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[28:43.900 --> 28:44.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, great.
[28:44.380 --> 28:45.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Are you going to read some of this?
[28:45.200 --> 28:45.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to read some of this.
[28:45.940 --> 28:46.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[28:46.380 --> 28:46.380]  Okay.
[28:46.380 --> 28:46.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[28:46.520 --> 28:46.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm ready.
[28:46.880 --> 28:47.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm ready.
[28:47.200 --> 28:50.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Including a quote from a 13 year old that said, are you sure this is necessary?
[28:50.280 --> 28:54.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: There are like 100 pages about Instagram's terms of services.
[28:54.620 --> 28:59.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, it's really 17 pages, kid, with 5,000 words, but still plenty, still plenty.
[29:00.500 --> 29:05.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway, so Jenny Afia is a privacy law expert at Schillings, a UK based law firm.
[29:06.280 --> 29:10.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: And she rewrote Instagram's terms of service in child friendly language.
[29:10.200 --> 29:12.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: And here are a few of the paragraphs.
[29:13.160 --> 29:17.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Officially, you own any original pictures and videos you post, but we are allowed to use them.
[29:18.060 --> 29:20.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we can let others use them as well anywhere around the world.
[29:21.260 --> 29:24.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Other people might pay us to use them, and we will not pay you for that.
[29:25.540 --> 29:30.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: We may keep, use, and share your personal information with companies connected with Instagram.
[29:30.520 --> 29:44.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: This information includes your name, email address, school, where you live, pictures, phone numbers, your likes and dislikes, where you go, who your friends are, how often you use Instagram, and any other personal information we find, such as your birthday or who you are chatting with,
[29:44.660 --> 29:46.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: including in private messages.
[29:46.640 --> 29:50.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: We might send you adverts connected to your interest, which we are monitoring.
[29:50.700 --> 29:54.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: You cannot stop us doing this, and it will not always be obvious that it is an advert.
[29:55.840 --> 29:57.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: I like this.
[29:57.180 --> 30:01.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: We can change or end Instagram, just like we can change or end you.
[30:01.580 --> 30:02.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, I'm just kidding.
[30:03.040 --> 30:09.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: We can change or end Instagram or stop you accessing Instagram at any time for any reason and without letting you know in advance.
[30:10.040 --> 30:15.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: We can also delete posts and other content randomly without telling you for any reason.
[30:15.640 --> 30:22.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you do this, I'm sorry, if we do this, we will not be responsible for paying out any money and you won't have any right to complain.
[30:23.240 --> 30:24.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: I like that a lot.
[30:24.980 --> 30:28.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: You won't have any, that's just kind of sums up a lot of these terms of services.
[30:28.640 --> 30:29.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: You won't have any right to complain.
[30:30.680 --> 30:31.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[30:31.440 --> 30:34.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: We can force you to give up your username for any reason.
[30:34.720 --> 30:42.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: We can, but do not have to remove, edit, block, and or monitor anything posted or any accounts that we think breaks any of these rules.
[30:42.780 --> 30:45.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: We are not responsible if somebody breaks the law or breaks these rules.
[30:46.000 --> 30:47.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: But if you break them, you are responsible.
[30:49.440 --> 30:55.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: If they made it more easy, then people would actually read it and think twice about the apps that a 13 year old girl after being shown the revised policy.
[30:55.200 --> 30:58.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: One third of Internet users are children, but the Internet wasn't created for children.
[30:59.500 --> 31:06.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this is certainly, this shows you how children will be victimized by this kind of attitude.
[31:06.360 --> 31:09.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, not just children, I think, you know, adults as well.
[31:09.760 --> 31:11.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, nobody reads these things.
[31:11.340 --> 31:16.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think the reading or rather the paraphrasing of these policies was very accurate.
[31:17.140 --> 31:22.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: I also find that it wasn't necessarily dumbed down to the level of a 12 or a 13 year old.
[31:22.720 --> 31:24.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, this is really what happens.
[31:24.360 --> 31:28.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it was quite an accurate representation of what's in these policies.
[31:28.220 --> 31:31.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: I would read terms of services if they were written in that tone.
[31:31.580 --> 31:33.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: I wouldn't be happy about them, but I would read them.
[31:33.740 --> 31:39.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think everybody should be aware, like this one has been made clear, of just what is within these things.
[31:39.700 --> 31:40.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's true.
[31:40.200 --> 31:41.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, they confuse adults.
[31:41.980 --> 31:43.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Nobody reads these things.
[31:44.080 --> 31:59.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: In fact, I did a spot on CNBC that I think is going to come out next week with relation to an application called Snatch, which is an augmented reality app, just like Pokemon Go, but is available in the UK.
[32:00.160 --> 32:11.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it has to do with you run around this augmented world of reality and you can actually get real prizes mailed to you, but you have to steal them from other people.
[32:11.260 --> 32:15.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: So the whole premise is really dishonorable from the beginning.
[32:15.280 --> 32:19.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, you know, I talked a lot about privacy policies and they are so long and drawn out.
[32:20.160 --> 32:28.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I read through every single policy, the terms and conditions, the privacy policies, the cookie policies, in preparation for that interview that I did with CNBC.
[32:28.840 --> 32:30.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm a lawyer.
[32:30.360 --> 32:31.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: I even draft these policies.
[32:32.200 --> 32:36.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I'm guilty of drafting some incomprehensible privacy policies myself.
[32:36.340 --> 32:40.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: I try to use real language when I do it, but it's sometimes difficult.
[32:41.340 --> 32:45.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: On the other hand, these policies took me several hours to go through.
[32:45.680 --> 32:47.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: And this is what I do all day.
[32:47.200 --> 32:48.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: I read incomprehensible language.
[32:48.880 --> 32:54.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: They are deliberately long and drawn out and incomprehensible for a reason.
[32:54.440 --> 32:56.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: They don't want people to understand them.
[32:56.460 --> 33:00.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, they're sort of like, you know, so long and incomprehensible.
[33:01.100 --> 33:05.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: It would be like going on a first date with, you know, Donald Rumsfeld or something like that.
[33:05.880 --> 33:15.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's so mind-numbingly circumlocutious in so many ways that nobody can really understand them.
[33:16.000 --> 33:18.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's why you have things buried in them that are hilarious.
[33:18.780 --> 33:25.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Every once in a while, somebody uncovers some sort of Easter agonies or you give away your firstborn child or something like that.
[33:25.540 --> 33:27.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: But it's a real problem.
[33:28.700 --> 33:35.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's major privacy issues and major privacy implications that arise from putting all this data into the possession of a third-party.
[33:35.660 --> 33:40.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: People don't realize that any of that data can be subpoenaed through legal process.
[33:40.180 --> 33:43.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: It can be subpoenaed, let's say, even if you're in a divorce proceeding.
[33:43.420 --> 33:45.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't have to be some sort of criminal investigation.
[33:45.720 --> 33:47.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: It can be a civil investigation.
[33:47.740 --> 33:57.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if somebody wants to place you at a certain place at a certain time, if a third-party app is tracking your location, that information can be made available to whatever party is seeking it.
[33:57.440 --> 33:59.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: So long as I have the power of a subpoena.
[34:00.180 --> 34:04.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I really love this whole break it down so a child could understand it thing.
[34:04.620 --> 34:06.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a trope that's been going around the Internet for ages.
[34:06.820 --> 34:07.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's from Reddit.
[34:07.820 --> 34:10.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's called ELI5, which stands for Explain Like I'm Five.
[34:11.240 --> 34:18.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: And basically, that can be any kind of scientific question about how the world works or any question about anything, including something like this.
[34:18.480 --> 34:29.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: And as anyone with a child in their life probably knows, if you want to take something that you think you know everything about and learn a bunch more of it, about it, all you have to do is try and explain it to a kid.
[34:29.800 --> 34:34.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's really, it's not just for kids, because this is something that adults can learn a lot from, too.
[34:36.000 --> 34:47.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, speaking of learning from all kinds of things, whether they're mistakes or not, you hear about the Pokemon Go Fest that took place in the last few days?
[34:47.660 --> 34:59.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't know anything was going on with that, but I have noticed people walking around like that whole Pokemon phenomenon, you know, same thing, where they have like a car battery and a wagon behind them and stuff.
[34:59.280 --> 35:00.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, there's a lot of that going on.
[35:00.420 --> 35:01.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: But this was something bigger.
[35:01.680 --> 35:03.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: This was happening in Chicago's Grand Park.
[35:03.300 --> 35:06.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was called the Niantic Pokemon Go Fest.
[35:06.820 --> 35:11.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a gathering of about 20,000 Pokemon Go players.
[35:11.200 --> 35:12.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think I heard about that, too.
[35:12.280 --> 35:13.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it was a disaster.
[35:13.520 --> 35:14.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: It didn't work out.
[35:14.220 --> 35:15.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Total disaster.
[35:15.320 --> 35:16.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: They were worried about the weather.
[35:16.340 --> 35:17.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: The weather turned out just fine.
[35:17.660 --> 35:19.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the technology did not.
[35:20.140 --> 35:32.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: And as a result, they are going to be supposedly refunding attendees their admission cost, which was something like... Actually, I'm not sure how much the admission was.
[35:32.340 --> 35:37.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: But some people were saying they basically had to travel across the country to get there.
[35:37.460 --> 35:38.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know why people do these things.
[35:40.480 --> 35:46.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: So there was an admission cost for people to show up somewhere and hunt imaginary things on their phones?
[35:46.740 --> 35:46.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[35:46.980 --> 35:49.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: And within minutes, the cell networks got shaky.
[35:50.180 --> 35:51.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Within 20 minutes, the doors officially opening.
[35:52.260 --> 35:53.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Every single network was down.
[35:54.260 --> 35:57.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: And people couldn't even connect.
[35:58.860 --> 35:59.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[35:59.440 --> 36:01.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: I kind of want a refund and I didn't even go.
[36:02.280 --> 36:02.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[36:02.820 --> 36:05.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, it's pretty annoying.
[36:05.800 --> 36:09.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's really... I'm not sure just how crazy it wound up being in the end.
[36:10.040 --> 36:12.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: But it was a disaster.
[36:12.020 --> 36:21.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: In the games industry, it's not unknown for something that's hugely anticipated to either unveil or have some kind of event.
[36:21.360 --> 36:25.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: And more people try and connect to it than they were prepared for, which means it locks up the thing for everybody.
[36:26.400 --> 36:27.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it angers everyone.
[36:28.000 --> 36:37.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: So if they were doing something like this, and depending on the, I guess, the local cell infrastructure and things like that, this isn't a new thing.
[36:37.200 --> 36:38.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: They maybe should have seen it coming.
[36:38.580 --> 36:42.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Especially with all the history that Pokemon Go has had with its whole unveiling.
[36:42.400 --> 36:42.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[36:43.000 --> 36:49.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the game relies really heavily on being able to communicate outside of just your phone.
[36:50.380 --> 36:54.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're not playing necessarily something that's local to you.
[36:55.060 --> 36:56.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: You really need that connectivity.
[36:56.920 --> 37:05.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: So when many people get together and they haven't really tested it or don't have a contingency for when it goes wrong.
[37:05.960 --> 37:06.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have to have a contingency.
[37:06.280 --> 37:06.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the whole thing.
[37:07.140 --> 37:08.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you don't have a contingency, you're doomed.
[37:08.780 --> 37:20.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: You got to anticipate the stuff with whether it's infrastructure when you're getting a lot of people together or you're going to expect a lot of traffic on your website or on your news group.
[37:20.840 --> 37:29.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's critical to at least consider what might happen if you get overloaded or you sell out of something really quickly.
[37:29.200 --> 37:33.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they had people lined up around the block for hours beforehand.
[37:33.040 --> 37:39.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: They had these big screens that are supposed to show which teams were ahead and those were simply turned off.
[37:40.380 --> 37:47.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: And when Niantic, which is the company that apparently ran this, do they own Pokemon Go?
[37:47.100 --> 37:47.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't even know.
[37:47.860 --> 37:48.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't keep track of these things.
[37:49.040 --> 38:03.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: But when John Hank from Niantic took the stage, he was greeted by an audience a few thousand deep, many of them chanting, fix your game or we can't play as some more aggressive attendees approach the stage to personally share or shout their discontent.
[38:03.740 --> 38:05.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, yeah, that's something.
[38:06.100 --> 38:13.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, the update to this story is that it's not clear if Niantic will be automatically refunding attendees or just those who ask.
[38:13.660 --> 38:17.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, if you haven't been contacted, you should ask.
[38:18.200 --> 38:19.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it sounds very disappointing.
[38:20.540 --> 38:26.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: I would have, on the other hand, loved to have seen the first augmented reality riot occur.
[38:27.300 --> 38:28.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: That would have been something.
[38:28.620 --> 38:30.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: In real life or in the augmented reality?
[38:31.100 --> 38:31.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: In augmented reality.
[38:31.560 --> 38:32.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Where would the riot be?
[38:32.500 --> 38:39.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think in this VR-type world where either strange animals exist that you hit with balls and things.
[38:39.300 --> 38:40.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: We need... well, no, you know, it's not a bad idea.
[38:41.120 --> 38:43.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: We need to practice these things because of what's ahead.
[38:44.180 --> 38:44.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[38:44.260 --> 38:45.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: We need to practice our rioting skills.
[38:46.080 --> 38:54.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: We need to practice our gathering, demonstrating, uh, whatever it is that we need to do, uh, but do it in augmented reality and get it right and then do it in real life.
[38:54.720 --> 39:11.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, you're joking, but, like, honestly, there's, um, there's a lot of possibility for gamifying riots or protests, uh, actions and so on and creating technology to augment communication and organization when you're demonstrating and exercising your right to assemble.
[39:12.300 --> 39:18.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, we have a myriad of tools and resources and there are a lot of people thinking about this, maybe even in this studio.
[39:19.260 --> 39:20.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, here's my idea.
[39:20.380 --> 39:23.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Video game, just a video game in general called Stop Trump.
[39:23.860 --> 39:24.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right?
[39:24.340 --> 39:27.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, and he does more and more bizarre, reckless, crazy things.
[39:27.760 --> 39:28.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you have options.
[39:28.920 --> 39:33.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have ways that you can organize other players or, or take actions yourself.
[39:34.100 --> 39:36.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, you know, do you, do you stop him?
[39:36.900 --> 39:39.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are you able to, do you have any influence whatsoever?
[39:39.600 --> 39:44.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and, uh, you know, the, the game develops and it's a multiplayer game, obviously, because it has to be.
[39:44.860 --> 39:46.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think it's called Congress.
[39:46.060 --> 39:48.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, yeah, but that doesn't work anymore.
[39:48.480 --> 39:54.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is something that actually would work and, and that kids would like, but somebody has to, look, I came up with the idea.
[39:54.400 --> 39:54.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[39:54.620 --> 40:01.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: So maybe give me a share of the profits, but, but, you know, someone else has to write the program and, and, and do the marketing and that kind of thing.
[40:01.720 --> 40:03.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: But Stop Trump, that's the name, trademarking it.
[40:03.680 --> 40:03.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[40:03.840 --> 40:07.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Find a way to hook a leaderboard with achievements up to this and, uh, you've really got something.
[40:07.480 --> 40:07.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[40:07.860 --> 40:08.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have this story too.
[40:08.780 --> 40:12.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: You might've heard about man gets stuck in ATM slips, help me notes through slot.
[40:12.900 --> 40:13.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: This really happened.
[40:14.080 --> 40:20.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: The contractor was changing a lock inside a room that connects to the ATM and a bank of America in Texas.
[40:21.100 --> 40:24.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Of course, Texas, of course, bank of America, of course contract.
[40:24.280 --> 40:24.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[40:24.920 --> 40:26.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, he got locked inside the vestibule.
[40:26.980 --> 40:30.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: He started slipping, help me notes through the receipt slot, through the receipt slot.
[40:30.960 --> 40:32.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Most people thought it was a joke.
[40:32.540 --> 40:33.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: What kind of joke is that exactly?
[40:34.080 --> 40:35.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'd like to know what kind of a joke that is.
[40:36.180 --> 40:43.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, now someone eventually called the cops, uh, and officials described it as a once in a lifetime situation that you will probably never see or hear again.
[40:44.600 --> 40:46.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: I like that description.
[40:46.500 --> 40:47.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: That, that's fascinating though.
[40:47.800 --> 40:49.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: But why wouldn't the guy start yelling too?
[40:50.020 --> 40:51.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, slipping notes is, is one thing.
[40:51.960 --> 40:54.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's probably, it's probably really well sealed in there.
[40:54.900 --> 40:55.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: You would think?
[40:55.600 --> 40:59.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I, I would imagine if, if there's room for paper to go through a slot.
[40:59.700 --> 41:00.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Have you ever been inside an ATM?
[41:01.200 --> 41:03.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's, it's really hard to be heard on the outside.
[41:03.400 --> 41:03.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's metal.
[41:03.900 --> 41:04.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: You've been inside an ATM?
[41:04.840 --> 41:05.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've seen it.
[41:05.620 --> 41:11.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: I haven't actually walked inside myself, but I've seen when they open up the back of it to, uh, you know, deliver or take money.
[41:11.200 --> 41:18.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, they're going to do really heavy, heavily insulated doors for security, obviously so that people can't, you know, throw a shoulder into it and break into the back of the ATM.
[41:19.120 --> 41:19.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that's true.
[41:19.580 --> 41:22.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or a shoulder launch grenade or something that, you know, might penetrate.
[41:22.860 --> 41:23.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: That too?
[41:23.300 --> 41:23.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[41:23.700 --> 41:28.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's, it has to be fortified and, and your voice, uh, you probably couldn't even get a cell signal out.
[41:28.840 --> 41:31.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you had a cell phone, I'll bet it was, uh, it was within all the metal.
[41:31.920 --> 41:33.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Might've been, might've been like a Faraday cage.
[41:33.800 --> 41:36.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe that's the only place where we can have secure phone calls.
[41:36.080 --> 41:37.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or just metal studs in the wall.
[41:37.320 --> 41:39.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Kids don't play inside ATMs.
[41:39.180 --> 41:41.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, this brings up a larger issue with respect to ATMs.
[41:42.000 --> 41:43.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Refrigerators are fine, but not ATMs.
[41:43.540 --> 41:43.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: A little bit.
[41:43.780 --> 41:44.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, not refrigerators either, but.
[41:45.020 --> 41:45.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, like a curmudgeon.
[41:45.860 --> 41:51.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: But I don't understand why ATMs have to be so goddamn big now as well that they can fit a human being in them.
[41:51.460 --> 41:53.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: You go into any ATM, the screen is gigantic.
[41:53.900 --> 41:55.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: You get to choose your language.
[41:55.380 --> 41:59.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's all kinds of, of functions and things that you, nobody really wants.
[41:59.380 --> 42:01.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: They just want to take cash out very quickly.
[42:01.140 --> 42:03.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't want to have to click through five different things.
[42:03.680 --> 42:06.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't need a 27 inch screen to use the ATMs.
[42:06.840 --> 42:08.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, what about all the, all the ATMs you see on the street?
[42:08.260 --> 42:08.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Those are tiny.
[42:09.040 --> 42:09.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Those are tiny.
[42:09.700 --> 42:10.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Those are fine.
[42:10.280 --> 42:18.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why can't normal ATMs at a, at a Bank of America be small and work and, you know, not require me to click through or touch through all these things?
[42:18.300 --> 42:19.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't even want to touch the screen.
[42:19.860 --> 42:21.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, they're, they're fairly disgusting to begin with.
[42:22.200 --> 42:25.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I think, I think banks just like to have space.
[42:25.240 --> 42:28.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's why they open so many banks even when the, the economy is, is falling apart.
[42:29.120 --> 42:30.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: They open banks left and right.
[42:30.500 --> 42:36.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's all these offices and drive ups and vestibules and ATMs and not many employees.
[42:36.480 --> 42:40.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: They get rid of them, but, uh, they, they just like their space because they own all the space.
[42:40.640 --> 42:42.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, that's what Manhattan is becoming.
[42:42.300 --> 42:51.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, it's becoming a bank, a Bank of America next to a Dwayne Reed, next to a Pinkberry, next to a Chipotle, next to a Chase Bank, next to a TD Merrick.
[42:51.520 --> 42:56.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: You laugh, but, uh, I, you know, there was a situation on Long Island where there was a Chase Bank next door to a Chase Bank.
[42:57.020 --> 42:57.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not surprised at all.
[42:57.720 --> 42:59.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I actually, I saw the same thing somewhere else too.
[42:59.920 --> 43:06.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: I forget where it might've been, uh, um, near Coney Island or something, but there was, um, uh, yeah, a Chase Bank next to a Chase Bank.
[43:06.840 --> 43:11.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Apparently they took over a different branch of a different bank and neglected to close the one next door.
[43:12.260 --> 43:14.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is, this is the world we're living in.
[43:14.240 --> 43:14.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's true.
[43:14.720 --> 43:18.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: All I know is the machines at my bank are never this well stocked when I want to withdraw a guy from my account.
[43:20.240 --> 43:20.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[43:20.700 --> 43:23.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, uh, yeah, you, you, you, you won't have that problem.
[43:23.540 --> 43:24.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, that's true.
[43:24.760 --> 43:28.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, I had a, something I wanted to mention that was, uh, a different topic.
[43:28.860 --> 43:29.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[43:29.640 --> 43:31.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, let me give out the phone number for people calling in.
[43:32.220 --> 43:32.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[43:32.660 --> 43:39.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, first of all, if you want to pledge 516-620-3602, that's the important line to call, but if you want to call in and be on the air, we said we were going to take phone calls.
[43:39.940 --> 43:43.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: We want to hear from people 347-335-0818.
[43:44.220 --> 43:45.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: We only can take one call at a time.
[43:46.020 --> 43:50.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, so, uh, if it, um, if it's busy, call back 347-335-0818.
[43:51.140 --> 43:51.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, Kyle.
[43:53.540 --> 44:03.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: I read and it's, uh, with regard to the Dakota Access Pipeline, uh, protests in North Dakota, I think this past spring, uh, uh, winter time.
[44:03.660 --> 44:07.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, um, there were a lot of people there, obviously thousands.
[44:07.700 --> 44:18.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, as a result, uh, of them being there, what has been revealed or they're claiming is that, uh, an amazing amount of electronic surveillance occurred.
[44:19.560 --> 44:36.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, and this article, uh, talks about, um, fake cell phone towers used to listen on personal conversations, dead batteries mysteriously, uh, cropping up, um, and other, uh, funny things that were noticed during that action.
[44:36.820 --> 44:44.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, this was, uh, uh, spoken about at B-Sides, actually, which is going on, I guess, this week in Las Vegas.
[44:45.180 --> 44:48.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, some of the leaders for that protest were there.
[44:48.320 --> 45:05.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, they saw, uh, other things like, uh, drones being, uh, uh, shot down and, um, kind of the old, uh, the single engine surveillance type planes, I guess, that, uh, would fly over, I, like, like you see in, um, Narcos or something.
[45:05.400 --> 45:11.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, the, the traditional FBI little, uh, single prop plane basically cruising overhead.
[45:12.100 --> 45:13.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: So there was a lot of that kind of stuff going on.
[45:13.980 --> 45:26.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, and, uh, people, uh, it became very clear to people, um, uh, those who showed up to oppose the construction quickly found out that electronic countermeasures were being used both overtly and covertly.
[45:26.940 --> 45:38.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: For example, yellow helicopter, uh, was spent, spent a lot of time flying over the encampments, numerous small aircraft, as I mentioned, and so on, uh, in addition to fake cell phone towers.
[45:39.120 --> 45:42.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, this is going to become the norm at any demonstration.
[45:42.420 --> 45:42.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[45:42.800 --> 45:43.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can count on it.
[45:43.720 --> 45:47.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: This kind of speaks to what I was talking about, uh, using technology and actions.
[45:47.780 --> 45:49.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, I just want to read this last part.
[45:49.860 --> 45:57.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, Alicia Sterling, who actually we spoke with, executive director of geeks without bounds, uh, shed some more light on this issue.
[45:57.960 --> 45:58.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, she was at hope too.
[45:58.900 --> 46:07.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: She said when arriving at the camp, uh, she set up her, set her phone into airplane mode to preserve battery life, but soon found it was discharged, uh, within hours.
[46:07.660 --> 46:14.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: She claimed, uh, four smoke smartphones, uh, had been pwned remotely during her time at the protests.
[46:15.140 --> 46:21.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, protesters documented equipment from three different, uh, national or federal security agencies.
[46:22.460 --> 46:28.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, as well as those from a private security company, uh, goes by the name of tiger swan.
[46:30.060 --> 46:36.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: In any event, uh, this goes on, uh, about 814 people were arrested at the site, uh, et cetera, et cetera.
[46:36.520 --> 46:37.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Very interesting.
[46:37.340 --> 46:43.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: So yes, MC catchers as, uh, um, we refer to them or, uh, stingray devices.
[46:43.200 --> 46:46.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, it is being claimed were used there and it's not surprising.
[46:46.560 --> 46:50.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can bet this is going to be a topic of interest, uh, at, at next year's conference.
[46:50.760 --> 46:58.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, when, when we have people here in New York, we'll be talking about all the different, uh, forms of surveillance that have yet to be implemented that will be by then, I'm sure.
[46:58.800 --> 47:02.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, and, uh, actually, you know, that was, uh, July 20th.
[47:02.740 --> 47:05.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's about a year from now, just about a year from now we'll be, we'll be over with hope.
[47:05.820 --> 47:06.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[47:06.160 --> 47:10.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: The circle of hope, which is what the 12th one is going to be called July 20th through 22nd.
[47:10.900 --> 47:11.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: So yeah.
[47:11.940 --> 47:12.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway.
[47:12.460 --> 47:12.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[47:12.660 --> 47:27.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's, uh, really, uh, uh, interesting that, uh, the, the sort of, um, post game or the, but the, um, the processing of, of how that all went and, uh, and, uh, review is revealing stuff like this.
[47:27.560 --> 47:28.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm glad people are talking about it.
[47:28.500 --> 47:29.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is important.
[47:29.320 --> 47:35.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this is, this is one of the examples of how technology and activism and, and being aware merge.
[47:35.300 --> 47:41.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, there, there are so many people, uh, in the tech world who say, stay to stay with technology and don't talk about politics.
[47:41.860 --> 47:43.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, they're all related.
[47:43.280 --> 47:48.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this is, this is why this stuff is used against everybody at some point.
[47:48.160 --> 47:49.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: And lessons will be learned.
[47:49.380 --> 47:57.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, and it is, it is, uh, these actions are, are testing their, their way for us and, uh, to understand the difficulties and, and challenges.
[47:57.780 --> 47:59.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then, uh, rapid prototype solutions.
[47:59.700 --> 48:02.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: This anyway, is a good article by Lane Thompson from the register.
[48:02.660 --> 48:03.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, okay.
[48:03.500 --> 48:03.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, thanks.
[48:04.040 --> 48:04.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for that.
[48:04.660 --> 48:07.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, we have a phone call, uh, three, four, seven, three, three, five, zero, eight, one eight.
[48:07.480 --> 48:07.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[48:07.840 --> 48:08.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on off the hook.
[48:10.120 --> 48:10.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[48:10.600 --> 48:10.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello.
[48:10.820 --> 48:11.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: Can you hear me?
[48:11.420 --> 48:12.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, we hear you fine.
[48:12.500 --> 48:12.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yay.
[48:13.040 --> 48:13.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
[48:13.800 --> 48:14.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, real quick.
[48:14.720 --> 48:21.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to clarify more details on the Pokemon Go Fest, because while I wasn't there, I got to see it unfold on the Internet while it happened.
[48:21.560 --> 48:21.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[48:22.260 --> 48:24.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, the crowd was real rowdy.
[48:24.940 --> 48:29.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, during certain parts, people were actually throwing water bottles at the people on the stage.
[48:30.300 --> 48:42.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that one most interesting tech things that came from that was that Sprint was the only company that dragged portable extra cell towers to try to handle the traffic.
[48:42.300 --> 48:52.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: According to Niantic and other sources, all the other phone providers claimed to Niantic when they were doing the planning for the event, that their traffic would have handled the volume.
[48:52.400 --> 48:53.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously it didn't.
[48:54.060 --> 48:55.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: I just thought that was interesting.
[48:56.080 --> 48:56.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[48:56.320 --> 49:00.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's, uh, those are called cows, uh, cell tower on wheels.
[49:01.500 --> 49:01.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Interesting.
[49:02.080 --> 49:02.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Interesting.
[49:02.840 --> 49:03.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[49:03.100 --> 49:03.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks.
[49:03.420 --> 49:04.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, thanks for the clarification.
[49:06.020 --> 49:06.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: You're welcome.
[49:06.900 --> 49:07.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[49:07.540 --> 49:07.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Take care.
[49:08.540 --> 49:11.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Our phone number is 347-335-0818.
[49:11.760 --> 49:19.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, if you have something to say about, um, the world of, uh, technology, hackers, um, that kind of thing, what we're taking phone calls the next few minutes.
[49:19.620 --> 49:24.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: And of course our pledge line is still open 516-620-3602.
[49:24.480 --> 49:25.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's take this phone call.
[49:25.200 --> 49:25.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[49:25.760 --> 49:27.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're, um, off the hook.
[49:28.420 --> 49:29.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Boy, we have some feedback here.
[49:30.960 --> 49:31.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: So am I on the air?
[49:32.040 --> 49:32.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air right now.
[49:33.020 --> 49:34.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you could turn down your radio, that would be great.
[49:35.140 --> 49:35.220]  Great.
[49:35.900 --> 49:36.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[49:36.340 --> 49:38.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: So how do we get tickets to the circle of hope?
[49:38.080 --> 49:39.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, when do we start looking for it?
[49:39.160 --> 49:40.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'll take the answer up there.
[49:40.240 --> 49:40.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[49:40.740 --> 49:41.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you for that.
[49:41.600 --> 49:43.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, how do you get tickets to the circle of hope?
[49:43.580 --> 49:43.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[49:43.860 --> 49:45.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, I don't think we've been asked that this early.
[49:46.020 --> 49:46.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, well, right.
[49:46.960 --> 49:49.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: We announced the dates that people could plan ahead.
[49:49.480 --> 49:50.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's why we did it.
[49:50.780 --> 49:53.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, we're not ready to sell tickets yet because it's a year away.
[49:54.060 --> 49:57.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Probably, uh, the first, the first batch, I think last time we did it in November.
[49:58.000 --> 49:58.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[49:58.140 --> 50:00.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was like 11, 11 because it was the 11th hope.
[50:00.500 --> 50:00.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[50:00.660 --> 50:01.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right around fall.
[50:01.500 --> 50:02.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll do something like that.
[50:02.740 --> 50:09.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Discount the tickets in November, maybe December, but they'll go on, on real sale in, in, in January.
[50:09.120 --> 50:10.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: There'll be a lot of information.
[50:10.720 --> 50:12.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'll, we'll definitely provide details about that.
[50:12.400 --> 50:12.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: So stay tuned.
[50:13.380 --> 50:13.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[50:13.620 --> 50:14.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: So give me a phone call.
[50:14.220 --> 50:14.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[50:14.620 --> 50:15.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on off the hook.
[50:15.300 --> 50:15.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[50:16.880 --> 50:17.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[50:17.240 --> 50:18.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just like to ask a question.
[50:18.480 --> 50:25.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've lost a piece of document from the IRS and on the document, I don't know why, but they give the full number of the social.
[50:26.340 --> 50:32.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, I'm just wondering what can be done with, when this document is found by someone that has nefarious intentions, so to speak.
[50:33.040 --> 50:40.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, anything I can depend with, I mean, I have the usual stuff, the protection stuff, but, uh, is there anything above me on that that can be implemented?
[50:40.460 --> 50:40.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[50:40.880 --> 50:43.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: The, the, the information is your name and your social security number.
[50:44.200 --> 50:45.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, was your address on there as well?
[50:46.600 --> 50:47.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I guess.
[50:47.420 --> 50:47.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[50:47.540 --> 50:48.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: The address is on, on mail.
[50:49.000 --> 50:52.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you know, it's not the end of the world because this information is, is relatively easy to get.
[50:53.180 --> 50:57.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's, it's, you know, so many, the phone company has this information if you give it to them.
[50:57.840 --> 51:01.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, so just the fact that it's lost doesn't mean it's the end of the world.
[51:01.600 --> 51:08.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: What, what you need to do though, whether you lose information like this or not, is always keep an eye out on, on strange things that are happening.
[51:08.120 --> 51:09.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Look at your credit card bills.
[51:09.320 --> 51:12.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't just pay a bill without looking at it and seeing, Hey, does this add up?
[51:12.860 --> 51:16.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Look at your, your bank statements, make sure things aren't being withdrawn.
[51:16.200 --> 51:18.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Lots of times they make mistakes.
[51:18.100 --> 51:19.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: They do things.
[51:19.220 --> 51:25.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not identity theft, but if you're going to catch identity theft, the way to do it is by, by, uh, by paying attention.
[51:27.040 --> 51:27.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[51:27.680 --> 51:28.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[51:28.720 --> 51:29.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[51:29.420 --> 51:29.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, sir.
[51:30.060 --> 51:30.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[51:30.300 --> 51:30.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good luck.
[51:31.400 --> 51:31.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Goodbye.
[51:31.900 --> 51:32.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks.
[51:33.020 --> 51:33.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[51:33.300 --> 51:34.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: People are really, uh, scared.
[51:34.840 --> 51:39.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're scared of losing their identity to, uh, to, uh, cyber thieves.
[51:39.640 --> 51:42.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's, it's not so dramatic, but, uh, there is a threat.
[51:42.780 --> 51:43.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: There always has been a threat.
[51:43.880 --> 51:47.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you pay attention, uh, you'll be able to thwart it usually.
[51:47.440 --> 51:48.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that, that's absolutely true.
[51:49.100 --> 51:54.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, one thing to remember is you have to look at your bank statements.
[51:54.260 --> 52:01.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: You have to look at your credit card bills because if you pay off the balance, you don't have the right to contest those particular charges.
[52:01.320 --> 52:03.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: I believe if I'm remembering... Wait, say that again?
[52:03.860 --> 52:05.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you pay off the balance, what?
[52:05.220 --> 52:17.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you pay off the balance of your credit card, let's say somebody engages in a spear phishing campaign for fake hope tickets and they buy one and, or, or like somebody just makes an authorized, unauthorized charge on a credit card.
[52:17.360 --> 52:22.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you pay off that balance, um, you may lose the right to actually contest that charge.
[52:22.500 --> 52:22.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[52:22.700 --> 52:27.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Cause you're retro, you're, you'd be retroactively going back and, uh, disputing a charge that had already been settled.
[52:28.180 --> 52:28.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's right.
[52:28.680 --> 52:33.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's something called the truth in lending act that applies to credit card companies and it's federal law.
[52:33.380 --> 52:33.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[52:33.640 --> 52:40.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the thing is, I have my credit card set to, uh, to pay the full balance and I have contested things after they've paid the full balance.
[52:40.620 --> 52:41.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: You still can.
[52:41.360 --> 52:44.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: A lot of card companies will allow you to do that, but sometimes you may lose that right.
[52:44.920 --> 52:49.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have, I think, uh, between 90 days and six months to do something.
[52:49.300 --> 52:51.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you don't do something, then you lose your rights.
[52:51.140 --> 52:54.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I think, you know, whether you pay it or not, if you do it within enough time.
[52:55.120 --> 52:55.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's true.
[52:55.740 --> 53:08.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, and also with respect to debit cards, as opposed to credit cards, you know, those transactions are a lot more difficult to contest, um, regardless of whatever regulations a credit card company may have in, in, in place.
[53:08.720 --> 53:15.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because debit cards are essentially final at the time of the purchase, as opposed to a credit card where you can contest it after the fact.
[53:15.060 --> 53:20.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it depends on the, the lender or the, the bank and, uh, and the kind of sympathetic ear you might get.
[53:20.820 --> 53:21.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's true.
[53:21.700 --> 53:26.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they're becoming more and more difficult lately in terms of refunding charges.
[53:26.500 --> 53:26.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[53:27.080 --> 53:35.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: I suggest, though, people go online and look for, um, uh, what you're liable for, for fraudulent, uh, purchases, uh, credit, debit.
[53:35.840 --> 53:38.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, they vary from, from place to place, from country to country.
[53:39.120 --> 53:45.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, but you'll find that many times, um, you're, you're protected against fraud if you report it.
[53:45.860 --> 53:47.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's the big, the big caveat there.
[53:47.900 --> 53:48.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have to report it.
[53:48.880 --> 53:56.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you, if you ignore it or if you don't notice it and time goes by, this is how I bought that kid in Brooklyn, a train set because I didn't notice it for like 11 months.
[53:56.700 --> 53:56.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[53:56.900 --> 54:03.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Somebody, somebody used my credit card number and, you know, I, I, I was doing my year end, uh, uh, finances and I was like, what, what was this?
[54:03.620 --> 54:04.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: What's this charge?
[54:04.940 --> 54:07.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you know, the credit card company wouldn't tell me what it was.
[54:08.140 --> 54:11.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: They, they just said it's for this company, but we can't tell you anything more than that.
[54:11.360 --> 54:12.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we have no records.
[54:12.360 --> 54:13.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: They, they actually said this to me.
[54:13.360 --> 54:14.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have no records.
[54:14.520 --> 54:18.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I had to do my own detective work and I, I found, I, I knew exactly where it was sent.
[54:19.080 --> 54:19.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: By whom?
[54:19.900 --> 54:23.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: I talked to people in the store and I realized this is what happened.
[54:23.500 --> 54:26.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I was out of luck because I didn't report it in time.
[54:26.480 --> 54:35.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I wasn't about to, you know, um, traumatize a kid who had gotten a train set or his mom who was working, you know, two jobs to make ends meet.
[54:35.440 --> 54:37.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: I knew a lot about her at the end of this too.
[54:37.180 --> 54:37.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wasn't she a cheerleader too?
[54:38.020 --> 54:43.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: She, at one time when she thought things were going to go in a different, a different path, but that didn't work out.
[54:43.280 --> 54:45.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: And when we were watching her sleep too, she was...
[54:45.180 --> 54:46.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: We weren't doing that, Kyle.
[54:46.240 --> 54:48.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, no, but we could, we could.
[54:49.260 --> 54:52.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, but yeah, technology can be used in good ways or bad ways.
[54:52.700 --> 54:57.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: It depends on, on, um, on how you choose to, to accept it or utilize it.
[54:57.820 --> 55:00.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Was that the train set you were monitoring through the baby?
[55:00.060 --> 55:01.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was not monitoring the train set.
[55:01.680 --> 55:03.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: No baby monitors, nothing like that.
[55:03.240 --> 55:04.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: The one that you show us all the time.
[55:04.340 --> 55:04.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[55:04.500 --> 55:05.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: The show's over.
[55:05.500 --> 55:06.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Enough time has been spent on this.
[55:07.040 --> 55:08.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, write to us.
[55:08.240 --> 55:12.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: oth@2600.com is our phone number, uh, is our email address.
[55:12.100 --> 55:19.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Our phone number here to pledge, which, uh, is the only number that is working right now is 516-620-3602.
[55:19.820 --> 55:22.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's run down the, uh, what we're offering one more time.
[55:22.680 --> 55:23.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[55:23.140 --> 55:31.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you call, uh, 516-620-3602 or go to gif2wbai.org for a pledge of $50, you could get one of my historic data storage paintings.
[55:31.540 --> 55:38.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, for a pledge of $75, you could get the beautiful Lego and teach your kids to code book bundle, both very good books.
[55:39.220 --> 55:44.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, for a pledge of $40, you could get hack this, uh, book of hackerspace projects by John Bachtel.
[55:45.040 --> 55:51.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, most importantly, you get the radio station and, uh, and all we, uh, continue to be able to do here for you.
[55:51.780 --> 55:54.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: The phone number is 516-620-3602.
[55:55.000 --> 55:56.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can also find these items.
[55:56.360 --> 56:01.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you go to the website, give to number two, wbai.org and look for them there.
[56:01.660 --> 56:05.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and you can pledge if you're listening to us on a podcast later on.
[56:05.280 --> 56:08.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the phone number right now, 516-620-3602.
[56:08.680 --> 56:10.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: You may also use SMS.
[56:10.520 --> 56:15.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, you would want to send WBAI to 41444.
[56:16.880 --> 56:22.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, um, any amount goes a really long way at this here radio station.
[56:22.060 --> 56:26.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I would also want to remind everyone that your donation is tax deductible.
[56:26.520 --> 56:27.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[56:27.200 --> 56:28.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: We are a non-profit.
[56:28.580 --> 56:31.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Though we should, we should mention that the SMSs, uh, won't get you the premiums.
[56:31.940 --> 56:33.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, it's, it's a whole different system.
[56:33.260 --> 56:34.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: That is a different system.
[56:34.320 --> 56:36.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can, you can have recurring, uh, uh, payments.
[56:37.060 --> 56:39.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, you can do all kinds of things, become a WBAI buddy.
[56:39.940 --> 56:48.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, the important thing is to keep WBAI alive, broadcasting, transmitting, and, uh, resisting into the future because that's what we're here for.
[56:49.340 --> 56:49.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[56:50.020 --> 56:51.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, that's the show for tonight.
[56:51.520 --> 56:53.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, not sure if we'll be back next week.
[56:53.340 --> 56:59.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: If not, definitely the week after you can write to us again, oth@2600.com for off the hook.
[56:59.460 --> 56:59.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is Emmanuel.
[56:59.860 --> 57:00.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Have a good night.