[00:00.000 --> 00:04.060] [SPEAKER_07]: 0-2, or go to give2wbai.org.
[00:04.220 --> 00:08.980] [SPEAKER_07]: Give what you can, because we will most certainly take it.
[00:09.140 --> 00:11.460] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, money-wise, I'm talking about.
[00:13.660 --> 00:17.000] [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, stay tuned for Off The Hook, coming up.
[00:23.180 --> 00:26.380] [SPEAKER_07]: WBAI New York, time now for Off The Hook.
[00:27.580 --> 00:32.220] [SPEAKER_03]: And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York.
[00:32.400 --> 00:36.000] [SPEAKER_03]: The time is 7 o'clock time, once again, for Off The Hook.
[02:06.720 --> 02:09.740] [SPEAKER_03]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:09.840 --> 02:11.080] [SPEAKER_03]: The program is Off The Hook.
[02:11.180 --> 02:12.320] [SPEAKER_03]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
[02:13.200 --> 02:15.000] [SPEAKER_03]: Joined tonight by Kyle.
[02:15.000 --> 02:15.420] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you there?
[02:15.640 --> 02:15.860] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
[02:15.920 --> 02:16.120] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm here.
[02:16.340 --> 02:16.700] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[02:17.520 --> 02:21.360] [SPEAKER_03]: And we got the cue just right this week.
[02:21.360 --> 02:22.060] [SPEAKER_03]: It was perfect.
[02:22.080 --> 02:24.040] [SPEAKER_03]: It was really good, because we had a phone connection.
[02:25.160 --> 02:29.460] [SPEAKER_03]: So there wasn't any hesitation or not knowing if we were on the air, because we can't hear the station where we are.
[02:30.080 --> 02:32.920] [SPEAKER_03]: But we managed to figure out something else to screw up.
[02:33.060 --> 02:36.020] [SPEAKER_03]: And why are we not connected to anybody else?
[02:36.060 --> 02:36.560] [SPEAKER_03]: What's going on?
[02:36.660 --> 02:38.260] [SPEAKER_06]: I got locked out of my Skype account.
[02:38.340 --> 02:39.400] [SPEAKER_03]: You got locked out of Skype.
[02:39.440 --> 02:40.720] [SPEAKER_03]: How do you get locked out of Skype?
[02:40.880 --> 02:41.800] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess I'm suspicious.
[02:43.080 --> 02:46.640] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'll second that, but locked out of Skype?
[02:47.220 --> 02:48.420] [SPEAKER_03]: Can't you just make a new Skype?
[02:48.560 --> 02:49.460] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean...
[02:49.460 --> 02:54.680] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, we could use one that... I think you're using that machine right now to read stories.
[02:54.840 --> 02:56.720] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry for using my machine.
[02:56.860 --> 02:57.140] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[02:57.140 --> 02:57.300] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[02:57.740 --> 03:00.060] [SPEAKER_06]: It's going to be complicated, you know...
[03:00.060 --> 03:02.760] [SPEAKER_03]: So we have some angry co-hosts who don't know what's going on.
[03:02.840 --> 03:03.800] [SPEAKER_03]: They have no idea what's going on.
[03:03.800 --> 03:05.760] [SPEAKER_03]: For some reason, we can't talk to them in any...
[03:05.760 --> 03:06.280] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[03:06.420 --> 03:08.200] [SPEAKER_03]: What's... You're doing something, though, right?
[03:08.200 --> 03:10.200] [SPEAKER_03]: You're working on something, some solution here?
[03:10.360 --> 03:10.700] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[03:10.800 --> 03:12.020] [SPEAKER_06]: It's basically...
[03:13.100 --> 03:16.160] [SPEAKER_06]: I got these dialogues...
[03:16.160 --> 03:18.060] [SPEAKER_03]: But you should also point out your phone is dead, too.
[03:18.400 --> 03:19.420] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's throw that into the mix.
[03:19.420 --> 03:21.600] [SPEAKER_06]: That's the other part of it, but I'm getting to that.
[03:21.660 --> 03:22.040] [SPEAKER_03]: You're getting to that.
[03:22.060 --> 03:22.400] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
[03:23.060 --> 03:23.540] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you?
[03:23.700 --> 03:24.500] [SPEAKER_03]: Forget I said that, folks.
[03:24.500 --> 03:24.880] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you?
[03:25.040 --> 03:25.340] [SPEAKER_03]: Go ahead.
[03:25.340 --> 03:25.600] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying.
[03:26.200 --> 03:31.140] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's the situation where you get dialogues that are kind of pestering you.
[03:31.540 --> 03:46.400] [SPEAKER_06]: And in this case, it was being sort of apologetic, but insisting that, hey, you know, that's great that you entered in your information, but now we want to send you this code.
[03:46.640 --> 03:48.880] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you got to get a code over SMS.
[03:48.880 --> 04:00.180] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I allegedly already got the code, but the problem is the device that I receive that code, like, it's out there floating around, maybe?
[04:00.180 --> 04:01.920] [SPEAKER_06]: The device is out there floating around?
[04:01.980 --> 04:02.420] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, the code.
[04:02.540 --> 04:02.640] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[04:02.840 --> 04:03.840] [SPEAKER_06]: It's like, it's all over.
[04:03.900 --> 04:04.380] [SPEAKER_06]: It's everywhere.
[04:04.600 --> 04:04.840] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[04:04.960 --> 04:05.280] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, of course.
[04:05.280 --> 04:08.480] [SPEAKER_06]: But my device isn't on that network.
[04:08.820 --> 04:09.740] [SPEAKER_06]: You want to know why?
[04:09.860 --> 04:11.180] [SPEAKER_06]: Why is your device not on the network?
[04:11.360 --> 04:12.400] [SPEAKER_06]: I'll tell you why.
[04:12.620 --> 04:15.920] [SPEAKER_06]: Actually, you ruined it earlier, but I'll go ahead and get to that part.
[04:15.920 --> 04:16.380] [SPEAKER_06]: My battery's dead.
[04:16.440 --> 04:17.340] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'll ruin it again.
[04:18.220 --> 04:18.720] [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[04:18.920 --> 04:23.460] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, actually, you'll be surprised to know that my battery is actually very low.
[04:23.660 --> 04:38.380] [SPEAKER_06]: And in this particular model of handset or aged electronic technology, it requires, like, a baseline of charging before it wants to cooperate.
[04:38.380 --> 04:46.640] [SPEAKER_06]: And that means it can be plugged in, but still refuse to boot up, which itself takes ever so long.
[04:46.780 --> 04:50.520] [SPEAKER_06]: Not anything like the phones the kids of today use.
[04:51.700 --> 04:56.700] [SPEAKER_06]: So while I'm rubbing sticks together, trying to make my phone light up...
[04:56.700 --> 04:58.820] [SPEAKER_03]: You think maybe you should plug it in, then?
[04:58.920 --> 04:59.840] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, it's been plugged in.
[04:59.860 --> 05:00.480] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, good, good.
[05:00.620 --> 05:01.460] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, that's foresight.
[05:01.680 --> 05:02.340] [SPEAKER_03]: You plugged it in.
[05:02.340 --> 05:08.920] [SPEAKER_06]: Now, I had foresight with the other aspects of producing remote broadcasts on WBAI New York.
[05:08.920 --> 05:13.740] [SPEAKER_03]: We were going to talk about how the RNC is technologically...
[05:15.560 --> 05:16.420] [SPEAKER_03]: What's the word?
[05:16.600 --> 05:17.040] [SPEAKER_03]: Incompetent?
[05:17.500 --> 05:20.160] [SPEAKER_03]: But I don't think we're going to get to that, because I think we're going to focus on ourselves.
[05:20.160 --> 05:21.260] [SPEAKER_06]: Wait, that's news to me.
[05:21.780 --> 05:24.180] [SPEAKER_06]: There's a story there about their incompetence?
[05:24.300 --> 05:24.840] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, no.
[05:25.320 --> 05:27.200] [SPEAKER_03]: There isn't a story that says that.
[05:27.200 --> 05:32.400] [SPEAKER_03]: But I think that we can share our own observations as to how they just don't get it.
[05:32.500 --> 05:32.860] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, okay.
[05:32.960 --> 05:34.320] [SPEAKER_06]: But I don't know if we're going to get to that.
[05:34.460 --> 05:35.760] [SPEAKER_06]: You want to avoid the overall irony.
[05:35.780 --> 05:38.380] [SPEAKER_03]: If we can't even communicate with ourselves, I don't know if we're ever going to get to that.
[05:38.660 --> 05:39.020] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[05:39.260 --> 05:42.220] [SPEAKER_06]: No, that would be thick with irony and kind of inappropriate.
[05:42.240 --> 05:42.500] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[05:42.540 --> 05:44.620] [SPEAKER_06]: So I'm okay with wherever you want to go.
[05:44.700 --> 05:50.780] [SPEAKER_03]: So no doubt our co-hosts are listening to this right now over Internet or even the radio, if Rob and Gila are in Queens.
[05:51.460 --> 06:03.620] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm hoping that your phone is taking a charge and that that will allow you to receive the code from Skype, which you inexplicably got locked out of.
[06:03.840 --> 06:05.540] [SPEAKER_03]: And why did that happen exactly?
[06:05.540 --> 06:06.260] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[06:06.340 --> 06:06.660] [SPEAKER_06]: You don't know.
[06:06.840 --> 06:09.740] [SPEAKER_06]: I loaned my computer to a friend.
[06:10.160 --> 06:10.560] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[06:10.860 --> 06:13.460] [SPEAKER_06]: And my friend was using that machine.
[06:15.260 --> 06:15.880] [SPEAKER_06]: Wait a minute.
[06:15.880 --> 06:16.780] [SPEAKER_06]: And I trust that person.
[06:16.780 --> 06:17.280] [SPEAKER_06]: Wait a minute.
[06:17.420 --> 06:18.300] [SPEAKER_03]: You're talking about me.
[06:18.300 --> 06:19.860] [SPEAKER_03]: I just realized I borrowed your machine.
[06:19.860 --> 06:24.280] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, and oh, so this is the cause of it because, and I should tell people...
[06:24.280 --> 06:24.480] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't say it.
[06:24.480 --> 06:24.840] [SPEAKER_03]: No, no.
[06:24.980 --> 06:25.820] [SPEAKER_03]: Draw your own conclusion.
[06:25.820 --> 06:32.860] [SPEAKER_03]: Full disclosure, I am finally getting around to digitizing this family collection of slides.
[06:32.960 --> 06:34.820] [SPEAKER_03]: So I've got all these carousels.
[06:35.240 --> 06:37.580] [SPEAKER_03]: You ever have slides, you know, slide projectors, all that kind of thing?
[06:37.760 --> 06:39.920] [SPEAKER_03]: I have a whole stack of those.
[06:40.360 --> 06:47.320] [SPEAKER_03]: And for some reason, the computer that I have wouldn't run the software properly.
[06:47.800 --> 06:49.040] [SPEAKER_03]: Actually, I'm thinking of something else.
[06:49.040 --> 06:50.140] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm thinking of digitizing vinyl.
[06:50.420 --> 06:53.540] [SPEAKER_03]: We're doing two things at once, digitizing vinyl and digitizing slides.
[06:53.900 --> 06:56.180] [SPEAKER_03]: And I wanted to do both of them at the same time.
[06:56.220 --> 07:01.380] [SPEAKER_03]: And the vinyl software wasn't working on one computer at all for no reason.
[07:02.100 --> 07:03.640] [SPEAKER_03]: And we wound up just...
[07:03.640 --> 07:04.100] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, never mind.
[07:04.140 --> 07:04.560] [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't matter.
[07:04.640 --> 07:05.080] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not important.
[07:05.320 --> 07:07.420] [SPEAKER_03]: The thing is, I was using that computer.
[07:07.580 --> 07:07.860] [SPEAKER_03]: So what?
[07:07.860 --> 07:08.340] [SPEAKER_03]: I broke it?
[07:08.340 --> 07:10.040] [SPEAKER_06]: No, no, no.
[07:10.160 --> 07:11.060] [SPEAKER_06]: It's just...
[07:11.060 --> 07:20.760] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I'm going to reserve the right to assign blame errantly because that is my area of expertise.
[07:21.280 --> 07:23.100] [SPEAKER_06]: So, no, no, no, no.
[07:23.540 --> 07:34.300] [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, the machine being out of my overall control, I guess, led to Skype getting suspicious.
[07:34.300 --> 07:36.100] [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe, you know, they...
[07:36.100 --> 07:37.740] [SPEAKER_03]: How would Skype know that I had your machine?
[07:38.100 --> 07:39.340] [SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't using Skype.
[07:41.020 --> 07:41.660] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what?
[07:41.700 --> 07:42.160] [SPEAKER_06]: That's right.
[07:42.360 --> 07:44.040] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but that's fine.
[07:44.200 --> 07:49.020] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, maybe they noticed what you were doing while, you know, that was going on.
[07:49.100 --> 07:51.660] [SPEAKER_03]: That is just scaring me, that Skype...
[07:51.660 --> 07:52.420] [SPEAKER_03]: No, this is...
[07:52.420 --> 07:52.940] [SPEAKER_03]: No, this is...
[07:52.940 --> 07:53.940] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm totally making this up.
[07:54.160 --> 07:55.120] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think you might be.
[07:55.120 --> 07:57.720] [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe, I mean, do you know for sure that I'm not?
[07:58.080 --> 07:58.440] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[08:00.100 --> 08:01.140] [SPEAKER_03]: How's your damn phone?
[08:01.220 --> 08:04.600] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it charged enough to connect to something or to get a code?
[08:04.760 --> 08:08.780] [SPEAKER_03]: Or is there a backup plan we can put together?
[08:08.860 --> 08:11.780] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I'm pretty sure we can think of something.
[08:11.980 --> 08:18.460] [SPEAKER_06]: You can focus on this embarrassment as much as you'd like, or I can quietly try to resolve it.
[08:18.900 --> 08:20.040] [SPEAKER_03]: Quietly try to resolve it.
[08:20.100 --> 08:20.340] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[08:20.540 --> 08:21.520] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll go ahead with that.
[08:21.520 --> 08:25.700] [SPEAKER_03]: I have some stories to read, but I just ask that you quietly try to resolve it quickly.
[08:25.900 --> 08:30.440] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, my apologies for the inconvenience to all.
[08:30.440 --> 08:35.040] [SPEAKER_03]: You can reach Kyle with your messages of berating...
[08:35.040 --> 08:38.420] [SPEAKER_03]: No, at our regular email address, oth@2600.com.
[08:38.700 --> 08:45.160] [SPEAKER_03]: We're the technology program where we live to talk about technology and how it works and sometimes doesn't.
[08:45.560 --> 08:50.640] [SPEAKER_03]: And how other people sometimes make total fools of themselves when they don't use it properly.
[08:51.660 --> 08:55.640] [SPEAKER_03]: So we have been keeping track of both conventions.
[08:55.840 --> 09:02.440] [SPEAKER_03]: And in fact, if you keep listening to WBAI, you will be hearing the Republican convention tonight starting at 10.
[09:02.840 --> 09:16.680] [SPEAKER_03]: And you could not tune into a better place to hear coverage of these people because, wow, it's just an unbelievable performance that is being unveiled in front of the entire world.
[09:17.440 --> 09:22.780] [SPEAKER_03]: We've gotten through half of it, Monday and Tuesday, and now we have Wednesday and Thursday still to come.
[09:23.400 --> 09:32.340] [SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to hopefully have some interesting news to share and speeches and things like that.
[09:32.440 --> 09:38.380] [SPEAKER_03]: I believe we'll be hearing from the vice president tonight and some other brain-dead people.
[09:38.900 --> 09:39.200] [SPEAKER_03]: Heroes, yes.
[09:39.200 --> 09:40.300] [SPEAKER_06]: His wife, too.
[09:41.000 --> 09:42.060] [SPEAKER_06]: Got to hear from the wife.
[09:42.300 --> 09:43.320] [SPEAKER_03]: The vice president's wife?
[09:43.660 --> 09:44.740] [SPEAKER_06]: I think so, yeah.
[09:46.720 --> 09:51.900] [SPEAKER_06]: And, yeah, there's a lot to analyze and sift through.
[09:52.160 --> 09:53.840] [SPEAKER_03]: So have you turned on your phone?
[09:54.220 --> 09:55.460] [SPEAKER_03]: Have you have your code yet?
[09:55.940 --> 09:56.880] [SPEAKER_06]: I'll let you know.
[09:57.220 --> 09:59.960] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, but, you know, we're a quarter of the way through the show almost.
[10:00.400 --> 10:00.800] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[10:02.440 --> 10:03.480] [SPEAKER_06]: No pressure, right?
[10:03.640 --> 10:04.160] [SPEAKER_06]: No pressure.
[10:04.540 --> 10:04.940] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[10:05.140 --> 10:05.940] [SPEAKER_06]: That's fantastic.
[10:06.200 --> 10:07.840] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm getting messages on my phone, so...
[10:08.280 --> 10:09.380] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, no doubt you are.
[10:09.380 --> 10:15.200] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, is there a way we can divert the code to a different phone if your phone isn't working?
[10:15.320 --> 10:22.300] [SPEAKER_06]: I would love to troubleshoot this with you on the air, but I don't think that's the most effective use of our program.
[10:22.440 --> 10:22.620] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[10:22.800 --> 10:26.360] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, Rob is suggesting that we set up a Zoom chat, so why don't we do that?
[10:27.300 --> 10:29.440] [SPEAKER_03]: I can hand you my phone with the details on it.
[10:30.840 --> 10:31.780] [SPEAKER_06]: Sure, yeah.
[10:31.780 --> 10:42.580] [SPEAKER_03]: So here's my phone with the details on it, and you guys get that set up, and we'll see how quickly we can get today's newfangled technology working, and we'll have a show before you know it.
[10:42.900 --> 10:43.620] [SPEAKER_03]: Wouldn't that be nice?
[10:44.620 --> 10:47.620] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so let's talk about coronavirus.
[10:47.640 --> 10:49.320] [SPEAKER_03]: Just get off topic.
[10:49.480 --> 10:57.220] [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to talk about RNC things, but I guess we can talk about the coronavirus since that's also in the news, and probably will be for quite some time.
[10:57.800 --> 11:16.440] [SPEAKER_03]: There are, of course, many people going back to school now, universities, elementary schools, high schools, things like that, and it's really kind of going to be a decisive period of time where we don't know what the effects of that will be.
[11:16.440 --> 11:37.980] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, in places like New York, which are fairly safe for now, it seems like a good idea to send kids back to school, but if their behavior changes, and that's already happened in a few colleges where people are not acting responsibly, all of a sudden we could be looking at another outbreak if people don't follow the guidelines.
[11:37.980 --> 11:44.820] [SPEAKER_03]: And there seems to be an awful lot of that, no matter where you go, some places a lot more than others, guidelines are not being followed.
[11:46.120 --> 11:54.460] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, dealing with all this, there are all kinds of technological ways that colleges are handling this.
[11:54.620 --> 12:02.020] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, one Michigan college is tracking its students with what is known as a flawed app, Albion College.
[12:02.020 --> 12:03.980] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a small liberal arts school in Michigan.
[12:04.740 --> 12:10.620] [SPEAKER_03]: They said in June they would allow their nearly 1,500 students to return to campus starting in August.
[12:11.080 --> 12:15.900] [SPEAKER_03]: Lectures would be limited in size, and the semester would finish by Thanksgiving rather than December.
[12:16.360 --> 12:22.740] [SPEAKER_03]: The school said it would test both staff and students upon their arrival to campus and throughout the academic year.
[12:22.740 --> 12:37.640] [SPEAKER_03]: But less than two weeks before students began arriving on campus, the school announced it would require them to download and install a contact tracing app called Aura, which it says will help it tackle any coronavirus outbreak on campus.
[12:37.780 --> 12:42.840] [SPEAKER_03]: And we've seen similar things at other campuses as well, but this one really seems to stand out.
[12:43.400 --> 12:46.320] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, it's because of the catch that's attached to this app.
[12:46.320 --> 12:52.500] [SPEAKER_03]: It's designed to track students' real-time locations around the clock, and there's no way to opt out.
[12:53.020 --> 12:57.760] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the Aura app lets the school know when a student tests positive for COVID-19.
[12:57.840 --> 13:05.280] [SPEAKER_03]: It also comes with a contact tracing feature that alerts students when they have come into close proximity with a person who tested positive for the virus.
[13:05.540 --> 13:14.980] [SPEAKER_03]: But the feature requires constant access to the student's real-time location, which the college says is necessary to track the spread of any exposure.
[13:15.700 --> 13:18.220] [SPEAKER_03]: It makes sense from a medical point of view.
[13:18.420 --> 13:19.880] [SPEAKER_03]: That is the way to track something.
[13:20.040 --> 13:26.340] [SPEAKER_03]: But from a privacy point of view, it's very, very disturbing, especially if people aren't told the facts.
[13:26.780 --> 13:33.800] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, the school's mandatory use of the app sparked privacy concerns and prompted parents to launch a petition to make using the app optional.
[13:34.600 --> 13:40.520] [SPEAKER_03]: And worse, the app had at least two security vulnerabilities only discovered after the app was rolled out.
[13:40.520 --> 13:44.540] [SPEAKER_03]: One of those vulnerabilities allowed access to the app's back-end servers.
[13:44.620 --> 13:55.460] [SPEAKER_03]: The other allowed us, meaning the reporters from the story that I'm reading, which is from TechCrunch, allowed these reporters to...
[13:57.220 --> 14:00.340] [SPEAKER_03]: I lost my place when I was looking at where it came from.
[14:00.980 --> 14:10.840] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, allowed access to the app's back-end servers and allowed the reporters to infer a student's COVID-19 test results.
[14:10.980 --> 14:12.140] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's really, really disturbing.
[14:12.440 --> 14:18.140] [SPEAKER_03]: The vulnerabilities were fixed, but students were still expected to use the app or face suspension.
[14:18.960 --> 14:25.480] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, exactly how Aura came to be and how Albion became its first major customer is a mystery.
[14:25.480 --> 14:31.980] [SPEAKER_03]: Aura was developed by Nucleus Careers in the months after the pandemic began.
[14:32.780 --> 14:46.140] [SPEAKER_03]: Nucleus Careers is a Pennsylvania-based recruiting firm founded in 2020 with no apparent history or experience in building or developing healthcare apps besides a brief mention in a recent press release.
[14:46.140 --> 14:54.880] [SPEAKER_03]: The app was built in partnership with Genetworks, a Virginia-based lab-providing coronavirus tests.
[14:55.820 --> 14:59.680] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, the app helps students locate and schedule COVID-19 testing on campus.
[14:59.800 --> 15:03.360] [SPEAKER_03]: Once a student is tested for COVID-19, the results are fed into the app.
[15:03.420 --> 15:11.360] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, if a test comes back negative, the app displays a QR code, which, when scanned, says the student is certified free of the virus.
[15:11.360 --> 15:17.440] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, if the student tests positive or has yet to be tested, the student's QR code will read, denied.
[15:18.420 --> 15:24.400] [SPEAKER_03]: Aura uses the student's real-time location to determine if they have come into contact with another person with the virus.
[15:24.820 --> 15:31.400] [SPEAKER_03]: Most other contact tracing apps use nearby Bluetooth signals, which experts say is more privacy-friendly.
[15:31.980 --> 15:38.000] [SPEAKER_03]: Hundreds of academics have argued that collecting and storing location data is bad for privacy.
[15:38.000 --> 15:40.780] [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't take much to come to that conclusion.
[15:41.480 --> 15:55.380] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, in addition to having to install the app, students were told they are not allowed to leave campus for the duration of the semester without permission over fears that contact with the wider community might bring the virus back to campus.
[15:55.580 --> 16:01.380] [SPEAKER_03]: So you see, this works for campuses, or it's designed for campuses where people don't leave.
[16:02.140 --> 16:05.960] [SPEAKER_03]: It would not work very well for campuses where people are coming and going.
[16:06.760 --> 16:15.840] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, if a student leaves campus without permission, the app will alert the school, and the student's ID card will be locked, and access to campus buildings will be revoked.
[16:16.900 --> 16:21.320] [SPEAKER_03]: That's according to an email to students that TechCrunch is reporting on.
[16:21.320 --> 16:28.640] [SPEAKER_03]: Students are not allowed to turn off their location and can be suspended and removed from campus if they violate the policy.
[16:29.320 --> 16:31.220] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, pretty scary stuff here.
[16:31.880 --> 16:33.360] [SPEAKER_03]: Private universities in the U.S.
[16:33.380 --> 16:47.980] [SPEAKER_03]: like Albion can largely set and enforce their own rules and have been likened to shadow criminal justice systems without any of the protections or powers of a criminal court, where students can face discipline and expulsion for almost any reason with little to no recourse.
[16:48.440 --> 16:56.260] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, last year, TechCrunch reported on a student at Tufts University who was expelled for alleged grade hacking despite exculpatory evidence in her favor.
[16:56.840 --> 16:58.780] [SPEAKER_03]: So pretty much anything goes.
[16:58.940 --> 17:10.820] [SPEAKER_03]: Albion said in an online Q&A that the only time a student's location data will be accessed is if they test positive or if they leave campus without following proper procedure.
[17:10.820 --> 17:17.640] [SPEAKER_03]: But the school has not said how it will ensure that student location data is not improperly accessed or who has access.
[17:18.560 --> 17:24.140] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, one student said, I think it's more creepy than anything and has caused me a lot of anxiety about going back.
[17:25.620 --> 17:28.960] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, that is the choice.
[17:28.960 --> 17:30.540] [SPEAKER_03]: In the end, you don't have to go back.
[17:30.540 --> 17:35.460] [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, this might be a great year to take off for many students, a good gap year.
[17:35.700 --> 17:39.420] [SPEAKER_03]: Just kind of hang out, maybe digitize some slides or something.
[17:40.680 --> 17:46.880] [SPEAKER_03]: And figure out something else to do instead of having to deal with all this anxiety.
[17:47.860 --> 17:51.100] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, one Albion student was not convinced the app was safe or private.
[17:51.180 --> 17:53.020] [SPEAKER_03]: I imagine quite a number of them were not convinced.
[17:54.120 --> 18:04.020] [SPEAKER_03]: The student who went by her Twitter handle, which I can't possibly pronounce here, decompiles and analyzes apps on the side.
[18:04.020 --> 18:05.760] [SPEAKER_03]: And I just like knowing what apps are doing.
[18:05.760 --> 18:07.640] [SPEAKER_03]: She mentioned to TechCrunch.
[18:08.280 --> 18:13.660] [SPEAKER_03]: Buried in the app's source code, she found hard-coded secret keys for the app's back-end servers.
[18:13.700 --> 18:14.740] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, way to go.
[18:14.940 --> 18:18.800] [SPEAKER_03]: That's using your college experience to the max.
[18:19.580 --> 18:21.720] [SPEAKER_03]: It was hosted on Amazon Web Services.
[18:21.880 --> 18:27.940] [SPEAKER_03]: She tweeted her findings with careful redactions to prevent misuse and reported the problems to Nucleus, but did not hear back.
[18:28.720 --> 18:35.860] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, a security researcher who asked to go by her handle, Gilda, was watching the tweets about Aura roll in.
[18:36.220 --> 18:39.040] [SPEAKER_03]: Gilda also dug into the app and found and tested the keys.
[18:39.260 --> 18:43.420] [SPEAKER_03]: The keys were practically full access, she reported to TechCrunch.
[18:43.540 --> 18:57.020] [SPEAKER_03]: She said the keys, since changed, gave her access to the app's databases and cloud storage, in which she found patient data, including COVID-19 test results with names, addresses, and dates of birth.
[18:57.360 --> 18:59.480] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we got there eventually.
[19:00.340 --> 19:01.480] [SPEAKER_03]: It's all out there.
[19:01.640 --> 19:02.520] [SPEAKER_03]: It's amazing.
[19:03.140 --> 19:08.860] [SPEAKER_03]: Nucleus pushed out an updated version of the app on the same day with the keys removed, but did not acknowledge the vulnerability.
[19:10.820 --> 19:12.580] [SPEAKER_03]: Kyle, do you have an update on the...
[19:12.580 --> 19:14.140] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I see people on our screen.
[19:14.360 --> 19:14.540] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[19:14.540 --> 19:15.760] [SPEAKER_03]: I got buried in this story.
[19:15.880 --> 19:19.320] [SPEAKER_03]: It really is fascinating what people are facing when they go back to school.
[19:20.060 --> 19:27.660] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, a lot of new software and stuff that works one way or that it's taking all kinds of information.
[19:27.660 --> 19:33.960] [SPEAKER_06]: Really, we haven't even thought about it if that audit has been an afterthought at all.
[19:34.060 --> 19:34.880] [SPEAKER_06]: It's just ridiculous.
[19:36.100 --> 19:39.840] [SPEAKER_06]: So, hopefully, our friends can join us and add to this conversation.
[19:39.900 --> 19:40.540] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's see if that's possible.
[19:40.800 --> 19:42.200] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's over there where you are...
[19:42.200 --> 19:44.740] [SPEAKER_03]: Tell us what you did so that people...
[19:44.740 --> 19:45.500] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't do anything.
[19:45.640 --> 19:46.340] [SPEAKER_03]: It's all Alex.
[19:46.620 --> 19:48.820] [SPEAKER_06]: Alex, say the day, he made a Zoom link.
[19:48.940 --> 19:49.940] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[19:50.140 --> 19:50.940] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't really...
[19:51.400 --> 19:56.040] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not really well-versed in doing Zoom quickly, but they set it up, so it's there.
[19:56.240 --> 19:56.520] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[19:56.600 --> 19:57.120] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's good.
[19:57.540 --> 19:58.840] [SPEAKER_03]: Alex, can you hear us?
[20:01.280 --> 20:02.480] [SPEAKER_03]: No, he can't hear us.
[20:02.580 --> 20:04.300] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, he can hear us, but we can't hear him.
[20:04.380 --> 20:04.780] [SPEAKER_03]: We're muted.
[20:04.880 --> 20:05.580] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's great.
[20:06.000 --> 20:06.780] [SPEAKER_03]: How about now?
[20:11.680 --> 20:13.600] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, this is really embarrassing.
[20:15.600 --> 20:18.680] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so we apparently can't figure out how to unmute ourselves.
[20:20.740 --> 20:23.960] [SPEAKER_03]: And we see Alex talking, but we can't hear him talking.
[20:26.020 --> 20:27.500] [SPEAKER_03]: Are we plugged into the right...
[20:27.500 --> 20:30.380] [SPEAKER_03]: Kyle, am I plugged into the right thing on the console here?
[20:31.380 --> 20:32.260] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you should be.
[20:32.920 --> 20:34.100] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, look at what I'm doing.
[20:35.320 --> 20:36.200] [SPEAKER_03]: You've got to pay attention.
[20:36.200 --> 20:38.460] [SPEAKER_03]: So is this the right thing to have up?
[20:38.560 --> 20:38.720] [SPEAKER_03]: No.
[20:38.940 --> 20:39.280] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not.
[20:39.380 --> 20:40.460] [SPEAKER_03]: You see, that's why I was asking.
[20:40.780 --> 20:41.520] [SPEAKER_03]: Try that one.
[20:41.560 --> 20:41.980] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[20:42.680 --> 20:43.500] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm asking you.
[20:43.780 --> 20:44.880] [SPEAKER_03]: You're not looking at me.
[20:45.000 --> 20:45.600] [SPEAKER_03]: You're saying yes.
[20:45.760 --> 20:48.160] [SPEAKER_03]: And this is why you always have to look at what people are pointing at.
[20:48.420 --> 20:49.680] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, Alex, can you hear me now?
[20:50.840 --> 20:52.060] [SPEAKER_04]: I can hear you now.
[20:52.200 --> 20:52.900] [SPEAKER_04]: Can you hear me now?
[20:52.940 --> 20:53.200] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[20:53.260 --> 20:54.320] [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for the pause, by the way.
[20:54.640 --> 20:55.380] [SPEAKER_03]: You gave me a heart attack.
[20:56.060 --> 20:56.440] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[20:56.580 --> 20:58.040] [SPEAKER_03]: So we can all hear each other.
[20:58.980 --> 20:59.740] [SPEAKER_03]: How are you?
[21:01.820 --> 21:02.460] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm well.
[21:02.620 --> 21:03.040] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm well.
[21:03.120 --> 21:05.340] [SPEAKER_04]: I just came back from New York.
[21:05.340 --> 21:06.300] [SPEAKER_04]: I was there for the day.
[21:06.440 --> 21:14.720] [SPEAKER_04]: And in fact, I was racing home to make sure I back to Pennsylvania on time before 7 p.m.
[21:14.720 --> 21:15.820] [SPEAKER_04]: to get on the air.
[21:16.300 --> 21:18.880] [SPEAKER_04]: I guess I didn't have to do that.
[21:18.980 --> 21:19.900] [SPEAKER_03]: You didn't have to do that, no.
[21:20.480 --> 21:20.860] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[21:21.260 --> 21:22.400] [SPEAKER_04]: But look, we're all here.
[21:22.820 --> 21:28.980] [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, while we're on the subject of the RNC, we might as well just say, you know, we were always all here.
[21:29.460 --> 21:31.500] [SPEAKER_04]: We were never not on the air earlier today.
[21:33.260 --> 21:36.860] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what that means exactly, but I've been through a traumatic experience.
[21:37.240 --> 21:40.340] [SPEAKER_04]: We were always at war with East Asia.
[21:41.040 --> 21:41.700] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I see.
[21:41.720 --> 21:43.880] [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to make a show and just pretend this didn't happen.
[21:44.140 --> 21:44.540] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[21:44.540 --> 21:45.060] [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[21:45.380 --> 21:45.920] [SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[21:46.020 --> 21:58.080] [SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of what we did last week because the first part of the show didn't air, and we simply replaced it in our archive because it was better than hearing the studio engineer trying to reach us and us not hearing him.
[21:59.080 --> 22:01.020] [SPEAKER_03]: Let me also introduce Rob and Gila.
[22:01.260 --> 22:02.780] [SPEAKER_03]: You're both here as well, correct?
[22:03.480 --> 22:04.720] [SPEAKER_02]: We are indeed both here.
[22:04.880 --> 22:05.300] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we are.
[22:05.740 --> 22:06.040] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[22:06.160 --> 22:06.340] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[22:06.400 --> 22:06.940] [SPEAKER_03]: So this works.
[22:07.160 --> 22:10.940] [SPEAKER_05]: We were actually going to just split off and have our own show with Alex.
[22:11.100 --> 22:15.160] [SPEAKER_05]: But since you guys have joined in, we can all just, I guess, combine our efforts this week.
[22:15.620 --> 22:16.020] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[22:16.180 --> 22:19.860] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe you guys should just host the show and have us on as guests.
[22:20.040 --> 22:21.680] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe that's a better idea.
[22:22.760 --> 22:23.280] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[22:23.440 --> 22:24.260] [SPEAKER_03]: So here we are.
[22:25.260 --> 22:28.040] [SPEAKER_03]: What do you think so far of what we've seen at the RNC?
[22:28.340 --> 22:30.760] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's start from a technological point of view.
[22:31.640 --> 22:43.160] [SPEAKER_03]: They're doing it differently, and they're criticizing the Democrats for the way they did it, which I think is rather similar to the way we did it at the HOPE conference, where we made it virtual.
[22:43.160 --> 22:58.100] [SPEAKER_03]: We had a lot of prerecorded material, but the prerecorded material was so much better because it just showed the diversity and the differences and where we were coming from, and we just seemed a lot more comfortable.
[22:58.460 --> 22:59.780] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was just variety.
[22:59.920 --> 23:01.460] [SPEAKER_03]: Variety was the theme.
[23:01.580 --> 23:04.020] [SPEAKER_03]: And I got that out of the DNC.
[23:04.540 --> 23:06.940] [SPEAKER_03]: It just seemed to be always going to something else.
[23:06.940 --> 23:20.640] [SPEAKER_03]: What they have at the RNC, they have people talking into empty auditoriums, and I don't know how that's better, and basically having the same background for a lot of people.
[23:20.800 --> 23:21.420] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[23:21.500 --> 23:22.260] [SPEAKER_03]: What have you guys noticed?
[23:23.800 --> 23:28.140] [SPEAKER_02]: I think my favorite moment of all of it was during the roll call when...
[23:28.140 --> 23:35.420] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry, I don't remember what state the representative was from, but who announced that the state was committing their 82 votes to Donald John president.
[23:37.200 --> 23:38.080] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I saw that.
[23:39.820 --> 23:52.740] [SPEAKER_02]: But also the difference between the roll call at the DNC versus the roll call at the RNC, I think, really does speak to the kind of production stuff, whereas, you know, it was a kind of a tour at the DNC, and the RNC is already standing in front of the same step and repeat.
[23:53.580 --> 23:55.480] [SPEAKER_03]: And they also forgot Wyoming was a state.
[23:58.160 --> 23:58.540] [SPEAKER_02]: Nice.
[23:59.100 --> 24:03.420] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, we apologize to our Wyoming listeners, and we would never forget you in such a way.
[24:03.540 --> 24:03.860] [SPEAKER_05]: Never, never.
[24:04.100 --> 24:07.180] [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, the whole thing just seems to...
[24:07.180 --> 24:17.760] [SPEAKER_05]: And I know I have my own personal biases when I say this, but compared to the DNC, and especially compared to what we did at Hope, like, there just seems to be no soul behind what they're doing.
[24:17.940 --> 24:28.240] [SPEAKER_05]: It's kind of by the numbers, and they're talking to empty rooms, which feels sort of, I guess, indicative of what they're doing on grander scales than just what they're saying.
[24:28.540 --> 24:32.780] [SPEAKER_05]: And it just seems like there's not much there, there.
[24:34.040 --> 24:34.900] [SPEAKER_03]: No, no.
[24:35.040 --> 24:45.040] [SPEAKER_03]: And also, you had that thing last night in the Rose Garden with Melania Trump, where all these people were not observing social distancing.
[24:45.040 --> 24:46.280] [SPEAKER_03]: They weren't wearing masks.
[24:46.640 --> 24:48.000] [SPEAKER_03]: What was the point in that?
[24:48.100 --> 24:49.280] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't get it.
[24:49.420 --> 24:52.920] [SPEAKER_03]: Just putting everybody at risk for no good reason.
[24:55.940 --> 25:01.400] [SPEAKER_05]: That's, I think, a running theme during the past four years or so, maybe longer.
[25:03.840 --> 25:04.300] [SPEAKER_04]: Max?
[25:04.300 --> 25:12.140] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, I saw the same thing last night, watching that, and I felt like she went on for quite a long time as well.
[25:12.340 --> 25:17.740] [SPEAKER_04]: And it wasn't saying anything particularly impressive, you know, to my mind, quite frankly.
[25:17.740 --> 25:21.240] [SPEAKER_04]: But they were all sitting pretty close together.
[25:22.160 --> 25:26.000] [SPEAKER_04]: Granted, though, they were all outside, so that's, you know, one mitigating factor.
[25:26.340 --> 25:31.260] [SPEAKER_04]: But you would think that they would want to set some kind of positive example.
[25:31.620 --> 25:35.600] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, they are being rather revisionist with their facts and their history.
[25:35.880 --> 25:37.180] [SPEAKER_03]: When would you think that, Alex?
[25:37.280 --> 25:40.820] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they've been doing nothing but screaming at us and trying to instill fear.
[25:40.980 --> 25:43.140] [SPEAKER_03]: What makes you think safety is high on their list?
[25:43.140 --> 25:45.200] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, I know.
[25:45.360 --> 25:46.260] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's...
[25:46.260 --> 26:06.000] [SPEAKER_04]: The whole thing really is frightening in so many respects, too, though, because it does feel, when you watch this, to me positively or well, you know, and that's why I mentioned the we've always been at war with East Asia quote, because so many of the things that are coming out just have so little disregard for the truth.
[26:06.000 --> 26:08.440] [SPEAKER_04]: And there's such...
[26:08.440 --> 26:10.460] [SPEAKER_03]: There's plenty of disregard for the truth.
[26:10.620 --> 26:13.500] [SPEAKER_03]: You mean no regard for the truth, but there's plenty of disregard for the truth.
[26:13.760 --> 26:14.060] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[26:14.600 --> 26:15.400] [SPEAKER_04]: It's very Orwellian.
[26:15.840 --> 26:17.960] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it really is Orwellian.
[26:18.060 --> 26:36.400] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you remember, God, it was almost four years ago when I wrote my first opinion piece for CNN, which was about Trump in 1984 and decoding Trump's first actions during his first 100 days through the eyes of Orwell's novel 1984, you know, and when you look at this,
[26:36.540 --> 26:48.020] [SPEAKER_04]: this is really, really frightening, because they are being very revisionist about lives that were saved by their efforts at the outset of the coronavirus pandemic.
[26:48.540 --> 26:59.940] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, even being revisionist about things almost four years ago, like the crowd size and the inauguration, of the inauguration, when you look at the montages and the pictures that they put together.
[27:00.240 --> 27:04.960] [SPEAKER_04]: This feels like something that is straight out of 1984.
[27:05.300 --> 27:06.480] [SPEAKER_03]: It really does.
[27:06.700 --> 27:15.220] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, you hear reports that the platform that was released by the Republican convention, basically, it's not really a platform.
[27:15.220 --> 27:16.780] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just a one-page summary.
[27:17.000 --> 27:25.080] [SPEAKER_03]: But one of the things that they are saying is that they are pledging devotion to Trump or loyalty to Trump.
[27:25.180 --> 27:26.980] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, instead of a platform, it's a pledge.
[27:27.140 --> 27:28.260] [SPEAKER_06]: It's a pledge.
[27:28.440 --> 27:44.240] [SPEAKER_06]: And I do, I agree, that it was like, it was hyperbolic hyperbole, like layered on top, on top, like compounded, weird rhetoric around, you know, envisioning something in your mind instead of reality.
[27:44.420 --> 28:05.540] [SPEAKER_06]: I think, I don't know if that was Trump Jr. or some of the other speakers that were coming across that, like thick, just mind warp of, of, well, okay, reality might not be what you like, but let's, let's all have this, this collective consciousness around some,
[28:05.540 --> 28:09.780] [SPEAKER_06]: some truth or untruth that we're going to believe in our minds.
[28:10.000 --> 28:21.460] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, speaking of untruth, there was one speaker, I forget who it was, particularly, but she was criticizing Joe Biden and the fact that, um, his family members benefited from his position.
[28:21.960 --> 28:24.300] [SPEAKER_03]: And I happened to be looking at CNN at the time.
[28:24.500 --> 28:32.580] [SPEAKER_03]: And at the bottom of CNN, it said, coming up later, uh, are talks from Tiffany Trump, Eric Trump, Melania Trump.
[28:32.680 --> 28:34.500] [SPEAKER_03]: The only names on there were Trumps.
[28:34.760 --> 28:38.640] [SPEAKER_03]: It was, I mean, I don't know if that was intentionally done, but it was brilliant.
[28:38.640 --> 28:44.320] [SPEAKER_03]: If it, if it was, uh, uh, nowhere has there been nepotism to the degree that we are seeing now.
[28:44.500 --> 28:47.580] [SPEAKER_03]: And yet they have the gall to criticize others.
[28:47.700 --> 28:58.180] [SPEAKER_03]: And I, I realized that's kind of a theme is that they, they commit, uh, a heinous offense of one sort or another, and then they accuse their opponents of doing that instead.
[28:58.360 --> 29:12.160] [SPEAKER_03]: And they grab the narrative, uh, so that their, their followers basically keep saying that their opponents are guilty of this, such as, uh, not being environmentalist or being racist or ridiculous things like that.
[29:12.600 --> 29:15.920] [SPEAKER_03]: And that allows them to, uh, to, to sail free.
[29:16.120 --> 29:16.260] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[29:16.360 --> 29:17.180] [SPEAKER_06]: They go direct.
[29:17.340 --> 29:19.680] [SPEAKER_06]: They want to be first to being aggrieved.
[29:19.860 --> 29:28.480] [SPEAKER_06]: The grievance is the, they want to be that first before anyone, uh, on the left or anybody could, uh, say anything about tone or how something was done.
[29:28.600 --> 29:39.460] [SPEAKER_06]: They want to be first and right there already a victim already compounding in some meta really warped meta reality that they're pledging to agree.
[29:39.600 --> 29:51.840] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, one thing I've noticed, um, the way you can tell good people from bad people and by good people, I'm, I'm making it very, a very wide net as far as good people, uh, and, and bad people fairly narrow.
[29:52.360 --> 29:54.140] [SPEAKER_03]: Bad people are always angry.
[29:54.340 --> 29:55.220] [SPEAKER_03]: They're always shouting.
[29:55.400 --> 29:56.620] [SPEAKER_03]: They're always instilling fear.
[29:56.740 --> 29:57.200] [SPEAKER_03]: Look at Hitler.
[29:57.540 --> 29:57.640] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[29:57.860 --> 30:00.800] [SPEAKER_03]: Hitler was, you ever saw him giving a pleasant speech, right?
[30:00.840 --> 30:10.520] [SPEAKER_03]: You never saw him smiling and saying, well done guys, because he was winning, you know, he was basically conquering left and right and Trump and his people, they are in power.
[30:10.880 --> 30:17.160] [SPEAKER_03]: They have been running this place for the last four years and they have been angry the whole time.
[30:17.600 --> 30:23.320] [SPEAKER_03]: Whereas the Democrats are really kind of friendly and open.
[30:23.900 --> 30:30.120] [SPEAKER_03]: And, and, uh, you know, one thing I saw the other Trump, Donald, Donald Trump Jr. Uh, he was, he went in his talk.
[30:30.440 --> 30:34.140] [SPEAKER_03]: He was said talk his, his shouting, um, uh, seminar.
[30:34.460 --> 30:39.100] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, he basically said that the Republican party is open to everybody.
[30:39.100 --> 30:47.220] [SPEAKER_03]: And literally the next sentence he said, and the first thing we have to do is get rid of the radicals, you know, basically, uh, starting a list of people that have to be purged.
[30:47.480 --> 30:51.780] [SPEAKER_03]: And so you could not get more Stalinist, Orwellian, you pick it.
[30:52.020 --> 31:03.720] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, this, this is nightmarish to see not, not so much what they're doing, but to see how many people are simply falling in line and believing it and not ever questioning.
[31:04.100 --> 31:04.560] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[31:04.780 --> 31:12.040] [SPEAKER_06]: Allowing the, that to be, um, to be spewed from some party that purports to represent them.
[31:12.040 --> 31:36.180] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and I, I just got a, I, I feel like there's a, uh, this thing of like, I, I've fallen out of trust with any kind of, uh, bipartisanship, uh, in, in, in so far as this particular convention is concerned because they're casting this, this broad, broad characterization of Democrats as radical.
[31:36.260 --> 31:41.760] [SPEAKER_06]: And they want their base to believe that no matter what, no matter what.
[31:42.040 --> 31:44.780] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, WBAI listeners, uh, we know radical.
[31:45.040 --> 31:45.320] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[31:45.660 --> 31:51.160] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, there are, and, and, and there are many, many degrees of, um, of, of, of left.
[31:51.440 --> 31:58.080] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but to call, to call Joe Biden radical, to call him Marxist, to call him anarchist.
[31:58.600 --> 32:09.280] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, can you imagine if he actually was any of those things, uh, what, what, what they would be, I think no matter what, they are just going to try and use those words to scare people.
[32:09.500 --> 32:11.120] [SPEAKER_06]: It's hilarious on its face.
[32:11.320 --> 32:23.220] [SPEAKER_06]: And then to think that, that to, to, uh, cast or disregard them as, uh, being a substantive entity, uh, out of hand, uh, as a result of that opinion.
[32:23.220 --> 32:24.580] [SPEAKER_06]: And it is an opinion.
[32:24.580 --> 32:26.300] [SPEAKER_06]: It's not based in fact.
[32:26.520 --> 32:50.900] [SPEAKER_06]: And, and so then they can cast that, uh, entire party as, uh, you know, irrelevant or, or invalid by the, because of that opinion in their heads, their collective hallucination, whatever that is that, that makes them somehow right in, or, or forces the binary of the non-choice that they must go with this pledge of loyalty.
[32:51.200 --> 32:55.200] [SPEAKER_06]: And I mean, I will say that the, the Republicans are morally bereft.
[32:55.380 --> 33:01.100] [SPEAKER_06]: I'll say that they're corrupt, but I'm not casting aside the entire, uh, entirety of the party.
[33:01.260 --> 33:06.340] [SPEAKER_06]: That's probably counter to a lot of what, um, more radical individuals might say.
[33:06.480 --> 33:08.560] [SPEAKER_06]: They might say the entire, you know, the party system, all that.
[33:08.640 --> 33:09.120] [SPEAKER_06]: I get it.
[33:09.200 --> 33:09.880] [SPEAKER_06]: I get it.
[33:10.080 --> 33:21.000] [SPEAKER_06]: But like to completely, um, uh, nullify a party in our two party system, it's not fair.
[33:21.220 --> 33:22.800] [SPEAKER_06]: That's not an even vote.
[33:22.840 --> 33:30.200] [SPEAKER_06]: You're setting it up for people to not believe, um, or not even validate people if they get a mandate.
[33:30.980 --> 33:31.380] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[33:31.800 --> 33:32.540] [SPEAKER_03]: Rob, go ahead.
[33:33.720 --> 33:38.640] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, the thing that strikes me most about this is I've watched a lot of, I've watched a lot of RNCs.
[33:38.800 --> 33:39.900] [SPEAKER_05]: I've watched a lot of DNCs.
[33:40.080 --> 33:45.360] [SPEAKER_05]: Obviously it's different this year, but one thing that's always been common is it's basically an internal event.
[33:45.360 --> 33:48.860] [SPEAKER_05]: Like people are talking to their own side with it.
[33:48.980 --> 33:51.640] [SPEAKER_05]: Nobody's trying to convert the others, the other side.
[33:51.820 --> 33:55.440] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, I don't think anyone is undecided and watching the RNC or the DNC to make their decisions.
[33:55.960 --> 34:00.120] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I think it's just basically preaching to the choir sometimes quite, uh, literally.
[34:00.520 --> 34:11.020] [SPEAKER_05]: But, um, the, the thing is that it's always seemed to me to be in the past and even eight years ago at the peak of Obama mania, um, or 12 years ago, rather.
[34:11.260 --> 34:14.740] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but, uh, it's, it's always been about, like, this is what we're going to do.
[34:14.820 --> 34:16.340] [SPEAKER_05]: This is what our side is going to do.
[34:16.480 --> 34:19.800] [SPEAKER_05]: And it always seemed like more of a collective celebration.
[34:20.200 --> 34:26.560] [SPEAKER_05]: And this more than any other one of these that I've seen is about one person and loyalty to him and following him.
[34:27.020 --> 34:30.080] [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, I think, I think there's something terrifying about that.
[34:30.760 --> 34:31.240] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[34:31.860 --> 34:42.580] [SPEAKER_04]: Um, speaking of which this was, uh, particularly interesting to me to watch on, um, on Monday evening because I'm sitting there, yeah, I'm, I'm on the couch.
[34:42.880 --> 34:56.620] [SPEAKER_04]: I've got the RNC blasting and, you know, there's Trump talking with, uh, you know, some recently freed hostages and, you know, making it, making the world think that he was solely responsible for this.
[34:56.720 --> 35:03.020] [SPEAKER_04]: And there wasn't a cadre of, of, you know, career state department employees that have been working on these matters for several years.
[35:03.220 --> 35:08.400] [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, he, he's such an attention seeking credit grabbing fraudster.
[35:08.720 --> 35:24.020] [SPEAKER_04]: Um, but I'm, I'm sitting there on my couch and I thought to myself, this is actually pretty cool because I can say for once in my life while watching the RNC, Hey, guess what?
[35:24.080 --> 35:25.200] [SPEAKER_04]: I sued that guy today.
[35:25.760 --> 35:36.020] [SPEAKER_04]: We filed a lawsuit against Donald Trump on behalf of TikTok employees on Monday at around four o'clock Eastern time on Monday was when we actually named Donald J.
[35:36.160 --> 35:49.640] [SPEAKER_04]: Trump as president of the United States as a defendant in a lawsuit contesting the constitutionality of his executive order banning TikTok because it would essentially make paying TikTok employees illegal on September 20th.
[35:49.780 --> 35:58.700] [SPEAKER_04]: So that was pretty cool for me to be able to actually sit there and, and watch the RNC and know full well that I just named that guy as a defendant in a lawsuit.
[35:58.700 --> 36:06.120] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I look forward to seeing, uh, in, in a courtroom, uh, in, in years ahead, uh, the people of the United States versus Donald Trump.
[36:06.300 --> 36:07.920] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to see that in some court papers.
[36:08.040 --> 36:09.980] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure we will see that many, many times.
[36:11.060 --> 36:12.140] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, we hope so.
[36:12.400 --> 36:30.260] [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, if he's not a sitting president, he doesn't have that kind of immunity, but, you know, to bounce back to what you and Rob and Kyle were saying too, which is, you know, the, the other really scary part of this that is in large part Orwellian in and of itself is the misattribution of positions to others.
[36:30.420 --> 36:48.520] [SPEAKER_04]: And in particular, of course, Joe Biden, and he is continually not, not just he, uh, being Trump, but the, um, the Republicans across the board have been saying that Biden, um, has supported the defund the police, uh, uh, campaigns.
[36:48.520 --> 36:50.200] [SPEAKER_04]: And he has just never done that.
[36:50.280 --> 37:08.020] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's just, you know, never, never underestimate the, the, um, the idiocy of, of the left sometimes too, in coming up with a slogan for the reallocation of certain portions of, of police budget to, you know, have a slogan that can be capitalized and exploited by,
[37:08.220 --> 37:09.260] [SPEAKER_04]: by the right.
[37:09.460 --> 37:10.980] [SPEAKER_03]: But, but Alex, it doesn't matter.
[37:11.120 --> 37:15.800] [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't matter what slogan they came up with because the Trump people would have distorted it no matter.
[37:15.980 --> 37:18.660] [SPEAKER_03]: It could be, you know, praise the sun or something like that.
[37:18.780 --> 37:20.340] [SPEAKER_03]: And they, they make evil out of that.
[37:20.600 --> 37:22.240] [SPEAKER_04]: Perhaps, but this one is particularly bad.
[37:22.360 --> 37:30.960] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's, it's just too easy for them, you know, not, not to exploit the defund the police because nobody's really talking about defunding the police and disbanding them entirely.
[37:31.200 --> 37:43.300] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's about the reallocation of the budget, but I think, you know, and this is something I've said in, in print too, but yeah, you know, again, what's Orwellian about this is that, you know, we're, we have to struggle these days for, for things like basic honesty.
[37:43.600 --> 37:52.400] [SPEAKER_04]: And what Orwell warned us about in 1984 is that, you know, uncorrected lies will quote, pass into history and become truth.
[37:52.740 --> 38:03.420] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what's scary to me is that if you just barrage the people with all of these lies, it becomes the job of the media and becomes the job of the people to call out these falsehoods and to correct them.
[38:03.560 --> 38:12.460] [SPEAKER_04]: And if you're shoveling, you know what, against the tide, some of these lies are going to pass into history and become what we would consider 50 years from now.
[38:12.580 --> 38:12.820] [SPEAKER_04]: Truth.
[38:13.100 --> 38:13.940] [SPEAKER_04]: That's terrifying.
[38:14.680 --> 38:29.980] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, what did you all think of the, um, framing of it just by using, um, the White House and Pompeo, of course, um, speaking, uh, for a, a party, essentially, uh, partisan, uh, event.
[38:30.260 --> 38:31.700] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, he was there as a private citizen.
[38:31.940 --> 38:32.560] [SPEAKER_03]: He was speaking on his own.
[38:32.640 --> 38:33.500] [SPEAKER_03]: He had nothing to do with Trump.
[38:33.820 --> 38:34.640] [SPEAKER_06]: Right, right.
[38:34.800 --> 38:50.440] [SPEAKER_06]: But also the party line, but just the, the visual of like having, um, um, the White House used, I know there were a lot of, uh, explanations and sort of excuse, excuse it because of the circumstances and, uh, and all of that, but using all of these DC institutions,
[38:51.260 --> 38:58.440] [SPEAKER_06]: um, really kind of loving the swamp, but their version of it.
[38:58.580 --> 39:13.000] [SPEAKER_06]: And in, in, in, in so doing really pitting it visually as we're, this institution because it's, we're, we're surrounding our, they're sort of like, uh, just draping themselves in the flag.
[39:13.140 --> 39:16.800] [SPEAKER_06]: And of course the, the, uh, White House itself being used as a prop.
[39:16.940 --> 39:23.260] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, what was the takeaway for, for people who, who, uh, don't see the harm in that, the, the threat in doing something like that?
[39:23.360 --> 39:25.720] [SPEAKER_03]: What's the big deal with Trump standing in front of the White House?
[39:25.860 --> 39:26.320] [SPEAKER_03]: He's the president.
[39:26.520 --> 39:34.520] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, because he is, he's speaking as a candidate and by standing in front of the White House, you're basically saying, if you're not for me, you're not for that.
[39:34.700 --> 39:34.960] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[39:35.100 --> 39:36.280] [SPEAKER_03]: Not for the White House.
[39:36.440 --> 39:40.380] [SPEAKER_03]: You're not for the, the country and you are an enemy of the state.
[39:40.380 --> 39:43.500] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not in so many words, but that's the thought that, that lands.
[39:45.560 --> 39:45.940] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[39:45.960 --> 39:55.180] [SPEAKER_05]: And there's also, uh, things like members of the armed services were there, uh, you know, in full regalia when, um, uh, they're not supposed to be acting on a, on a political, uh, basis either.
[39:55.560 --> 40:09.480] [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, just, uh, there's, there's a bit of legislation called the Hatch Act, which has been, uh, getting a lot of, uh, a lot of chatter lately because that, that is the, uh, the act from the 1930s that, uh, prohibits federal employees from, from using their titles or,
[40:09.480 --> 40:12.360] [SPEAKER_05]: uh, you know, official status in political activities like this.
[40:12.880 --> 40:22.160] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and, uh, I don't, I don't know if anyone there can really be said, uh, by any reasonable definition to not have been acting under, uh, you know, under their office.
[40:22.840 --> 40:25.260] [SPEAKER_02]: But then what would happen is my question.
[40:25.440 --> 40:36.660] [SPEAKER_02]: If it's been shown that nothing, no law that gets broken, that gets violated in any way, if there's no repercussion for that, then what would be the difference now?
[40:36.980 --> 40:45.600] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not even going to start on where Mike Pompeo spoke from because that's a whole different can of worms, but I have lots of feelings.
[40:47.460 --> 40:47.920] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[40:47.920 --> 40:52.140] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I've been jumping up and down, Rob, about the, the Hatch Act.
[40:52.240 --> 40:53.340] [SPEAKER_04]: I think you got it exactly right.
[40:54.020 --> 40:56.700] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, the, the Hatch Act applies to, to all federal employees.
[40:57.360 --> 41:04.400] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, and, and when I was working, uh, you know, in, in, in defense and intelligence, the Hatch Act applied to, to me in particular.
[41:04.460 --> 41:21.680] [SPEAKER_04]: And I remember, uh, actually, you know, doing research about the limits of the Hatch Act, you know, like, well, can somebody have a bumper sticker on their car for, you know, let, let's say John Kerry and having, and park in the, um, you know, the, uh,
[41:22.200 --> 41:25.140] [SPEAKER_04]: a federal parking lot, uh, does that violate the Hatch Act?
[41:25.320 --> 41:31.380] [SPEAKER_04]: Because having political regalia at your desk or proselytizing while you're on the job, you know, certainly would.
[41:31.620 --> 41:38.360] [SPEAKER_04]: And so, you know, all these things were, are taken really, really seriously and apply rigorously to federal employees.
[41:38.680 --> 41:53.120] [SPEAKER_04]: But when it comes to the Trumps, it just seems like they get away as, as Gilla noted, without any enforcement, without any kind of, you know, even slap on the wrist, violating these, these really sacred principles about separating politics from the operation of government.
[41:53.280 --> 41:58.460] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this is, this is what concerns me, because as you say, Alex, he gets away with it constantly.
[41:59.200 --> 42:03.420] [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, we, that becomes, that becomes the norm.
[42:03.920 --> 42:08.160] [SPEAKER_03]: Like we were saying earlier, uh, when you repeat a lie enough times, it becomes the truth.
[42:08.740 --> 42:19.720] [SPEAKER_03]: And if Trump gets away with this, not, not having his, uh, tax returns displayed, which is traditional, uh, not, uh, uh, honoring the hatch act, uh, all of these other things that, uh, he gets away with.
[42:19.880 --> 42:25.220] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, then it's just becomes, uh, one less thing that, um, that we believe in.
[42:25.800 --> 42:30.780] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, it's, it, it's frightening because we're seeing so much unrest right now.
[42:30.940 --> 42:41.920] [SPEAKER_03]: We're seeing, uh, people in the streets, uh, basically, um, uh, demanding justice after, uh, yet another African American is, is, uh, is shot by police for no reason.
[42:42.720 --> 42:55.360] [SPEAKER_03]: And basically the, the dialogue, what we're hearing not only from Trump, but from the mass media, it's about the violence in the streets, but it's not the violence in the streets of, of shooting innocent people.
[42:55.500 --> 43:01.260] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not the violence in the streets of a Trump supporter yesterday coming and executing two people in the streets.
[43:01.440 --> 43:04.880] [SPEAKER_03]: No, the violence in the streets, it's about burning cars.
[43:05.140 --> 43:08.680] [SPEAKER_03]: It's about, Basically, people shouting and taking over streets.
[43:08.860 --> 43:11.720] [SPEAKER_03]: That is what we seem to be more concerned with.
[43:12.400 --> 43:20.360] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, Trump is leading the charge, but the mass media also is picking that up and is not questioning, saying, no, that's not the problem.
[43:20.600 --> 43:40.460] [SPEAKER_03]: Look, when we see demonstrations in Lebanon after the city blows up because of government corruption, when we see an election stolen in Belarus, when we see people marching, for democracy in Hong Kong, we don't focus on the vandalism.
[43:40.460 --> 43:42.360] [SPEAKER_03]: We don't focus on the broken windows.
[43:42.500 --> 43:44.000] [SPEAKER_03]: We focus on the issues.
[43:44.240 --> 43:46.360] [SPEAKER_03]: Why don't we do that in our own country?
[43:46.560 --> 43:51.680] [SPEAKER_03]: Why aren't we talking about what's happening in Wisconsin and saying this is about justice?
[43:51.680 --> 43:56.520] [SPEAKER_03]: This is about nothing more than not shooting innocent people.
[43:56.520 --> 43:58.600] [SPEAKER_03]: And the police are culpable here.
[43:58.980 --> 44:05.300] [SPEAKER_03]: Instead, it's all these horrible demonstrators that maybe they're from out of town and they're causing all kinds of problems.
[44:05.300 --> 44:09.920] [SPEAKER_03]: and interfering with shopping, we need to focus on the actual issues.
[44:10.120 --> 44:11.580] [SPEAKER_03]: And this goes beyond Trump.
[44:11.740 --> 44:19.260] [SPEAKER_03]: This is something that affects the mass media, affects the way so many of us perceive what's actually happening out there.
[44:21.380 --> 44:21.880] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[44:22.100 --> 44:22.480] [SPEAKER_03]: Go ahead.
[44:23.360 --> 44:25.820] [SPEAKER_04]: I think you've hit it right on the head there, too.
[44:25.920 --> 44:30.800] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think the critical word that you mentioned there, Emmanuel, is focus.
[44:31.100 --> 44:32.740] [SPEAKER_04]: Why can't we focus on this?
[44:32.740 --> 44:36.660] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, we've got an attention deficit problem as a nation these days.
[44:36.820 --> 44:39.180] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's only going to get worse.
[44:39.340 --> 44:53.460] [SPEAKER_04]: And in large part, I think, you know, what's responsible for this is social media platforms, things like Twitter, things like Facebook and Instagram, where we have instant gratification with these tiny little blurbs.
[44:53.460 --> 44:57.760] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we even have an acronym for, you know, TLDR, right?
[44:57.960 --> 45:04.920] [SPEAKER_04]: Too long, didn't read for articles that, you know, are usually, you know, some kind of expose or deep dive into something.
[45:05.120 --> 45:06.460] [SPEAKER_04]: We all want soundbites.
[45:06.580 --> 45:09.720] [SPEAKER_04]: We all want to be amused and entertained.
[45:09.760 --> 45:13.500] [SPEAKER_04]: And we think politics is there for our amusement these days.
[45:13.500 --> 45:20.380] [SPEAKER_04]: And these issues, we can't even focus on them for more than 30, 45 seconds without getting bored.
[45:20.660 --> 45:23.040] [SPEAKER_04]: That's a big problem for us as a nation now.
[45:23.240 --> 45:25.200] [SPEAKER_04]: I think we want to do that.
[45:25.200 --> 45:28.280] [SPEAKER_04]: But the news cycle doesn't permit it.
[45:28.840 --> 45:33.520] [SPEAKER_04]: Social media platforms operate, in large measure, I think, on outrage.
[45:33.860 --> 45:35.700] [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, people are outraged by this.
[45:35.740 --> 45:37.280] [SPEAKER_04]: And that certainly fuels it for a while.
[45:37.280 --> 45:52.080] [SPEAKER_04]: But then there's more outrage on top of outrage, sort of like irony upon irony, when it comes to the broken windows and, you know, and the violence and the, and frankly, you know, a lot of times, like what happened last night in Wisconsin, people have crossed the line.
[45:52.400 --> 45:53.800] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, people died in these things.
[45:54.000 --> 46:02.260] [SPEAKER_04]: And so if that if if people are dying in these demonstrations, it's going to eclipse the issues that we can't even focus on for more than a minute.
[46:02.260 --> 46:06.100] [SPEAKER_04]: Anyhow, so I think we have an attention deficit problem as a nation.
[46:06.440 --> 46:14.440] [SPEAKER_04]: And we're only going to escape this vicious cycle by escaping from the clutches of these social media platforms.
[46:14.800 --> 46:16.440] [SPEAKER_03]: But again, Alex, it's the way it's phrased.
[46:16.540 --> 46:17.760] [SPEAKER_03]: People are dying in these demonstrations.
[46:17.900 --> 46:19.080] [SPEAKER_03]: So they're not dying in the demonstrations.
[46:19.080 --> 46:22.980] [SPEAKER_03]: They're being executed in the demonstrations by Trump supporters.
[46:23.280 --> 46:24.440] [SPEAKER_03]: That is what happened.
[46:24.440 --> 46:27.280] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a picture of this guy in the front row of a Trump.
[46:28.300 --> 46:34.420] [SPEAKER_03]: Now he is gone with his long gun and actually shot people after hanging out with cops right before that.
[46:34.600 --> 46:36.080] [SPEAKER_03]: There is a serious problem here.
[46:36.260 --> 46:37.760] [SPEAKER_03]: That is what needs to be front and center.
[46:37.800 --> 46:41.400] [SPEAKER_03]: All I'm seeing on TV right now is the fact that the NBA canceled some games tonight.
[46:41.720 --> 46:45.100] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, that's that's not that's not the most important part of all this.
[46:45.100 --> 46:56.780] [SPEAKER_03]: We have to watch the RNC tonight or listen on WBAI in two hours if they even address that at all or if they simply continue talking about the demonstrators as if they're the problems.
[46:56.960 --> 46:58.240] [SPEAKER_03]: The demonstrators are the solution.
[46:59.240 --> 47:00.660] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank God you have demonstrators.
[47:00.780 --> 47:02.840] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank God you have people that care about justice.
[47:02.960 --> 47:08.920] [SPEAKER_03]: If you don't have that, then you just have the executioners and the cops that are assassinating people in the streets.
[47:09.420 --> 47:10.260] [SPEAKER_03]: Rob, go ahead.
[47:12.980 --> 47:13.740] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, sorry.
[47:13.900 --> 47:15.740] [SPEAKER_04]: I just want to I'll just jump in.
[47:15.820 --> 47:16.660] [SPEAKER_04]: I wasn't sure who was going to go.
[47:16.780 --> 47:20.840] [SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, the demonstrators are engaging in constitutionally protected activity.
[47:21.020 --> 47:22.280] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that's the irony here, right?
[47:22.380 --> 47:24.720] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, these are people that love America, love the Constitution.
[47:25.120 --> 47:26.460] [SPEAKER_04]: They love the Second Amendment.
[47:26.700 --> 47:32.060] [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, the Second Amendment wasn't considered to be as important as the First Amendment.
[47:32.260 --> 47:33.660] [SPEAKER_04]: Our right to peace of Lee assembled.
[47:33.860 --> 47:35.960] [SPEAKER_03]: It also has been distorted ridiculously.
[47:36.840 --> 47:44.140] [SPEAKER_06]: A lot of a lot of stuff, if I may just jump in, a lot of stuff that's been damaged, too, is symbolic of the system itself, the justice system.
[47:44.320 --> 47:48.940] [SPEAKER_06]: I know some of the buildings around this courthouse that people were attracted, they were gravitating towards.
[47:49.140 --> 47:54.260] [SPEAKER_06]: And I just want to point out that those would be built 10 times over to substantiate that system.
[47:54.580 --> 48:00.540] [SPEAKER_06]: And they're being damaged because it represents the injustice and it needs to be torn down.
[48:00.540 --> 48:16.220] [SPEAKER_06]: So we ought not shed one tear for some holding cell or some place where more people would be mistreated and their rights violated or just sucked into a system that doesn't care.
[48:16.740 --> 48:18.460] [SPEAKER_06]: And that, I think, needs to be said.
[48:18.520 --> 48:21.160] [SPEAKER_06]: They would build it 10 times over every day of the week.
[48:21.280 --> 48:25.640] [SPEAKER_06]: There's funding coming out the ears for this kind of institution.
[48:25.640 --> 48:29.900] [SPEAKER_06]: And the argument is the institution itself is corrupt and wrong.
[48:30.120 --> 48:30.880] [SPEAKER_03]: Go ahead, Rob.
[48:32.280 --> 48:45.280] [SPEAKER_05]: So what you were saying, Alex, about the place of social media and all this, we really need to examine because I don't think the media environment is going to get any healthier unless we start really questioning our dependence on this sort of thing and the people in control of it.
[48:45.400 --> 48:46.200] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll give you an example.
[48:46.200 --> 48:53.160] [SPEAKER_05]: I have a YouTube account, not my personal one, but a separate one that I started just for a project I'm working on that posts videos.
[48:53.660 --> 48:56.380] [SPEAKER_05]: And so that's not an account that ever watches videos.
[48:56.500 --> 49:03.140] [SPEAKER_05]: So it's got no, like, it's got no, like, profile built up of, like, what it prefers to watch, one thing versus another.
[49:03.740 --> 49:12.000] [SPEAKER_05]: And still, the default ads when I sign in with that account, all for Trump stuff, all for, like, right-wing conspiracy stuff, all for stuff that stokes the fires.
[49:12.000 --> 49:30.500] [SPEAKER_05]: Because YouTube, as one example, Google, as the owner of YouTube, has made the decision that it's going to seek profit by stoking these fires, by fueling outrage, and by giving people, you know, simple videos on why this side is the best versus the other one.
[49:30.640 --> 49:33.260] [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, I did nothing to instigate that.
[49:33.380 --> 49:34.900] [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't watch any right-wing stuff on it.
[49:34.980 --> 49:36.360] [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't watch any left-wing stuff on it.
[49:36.460 --> 49:38.720] [SPEAKER_05]: But that's the default, and that's where we stand.
[49:38.720 --> 49:44.280] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, what's interesting, Rob, is that I watch, I look at Google News, and I don't sign into Google when I do it.
[49:44.380 --> 49:48.480] [SPEAKER_03]: And invariably, I get Fox News, and I get the New York Post more than anything else.
[49:48.620 --> 49:49.680] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think you're right about that.
[49:49.760 --> 49:50.740] [SPEAKER_03]: I think they are pushing that.
[49:51.160 --> 49:52.260] [SPEAKER_03]: Guys, we're out of time.
[49:52.400 --> 49:54.720] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how this happened, but we have run out of time.
[49:55.960 --> 49:58.840] [SPEAKER_03]: So I just want to invite people to keep listening to WBAI.
[49:58.980 --> 50:03.860] [SPEAKER_03]: In about two hours, we are going to start our coverage of the Republican National Convention.
[50:04.680 --> 50:12.760] [SPEAKER_03]: And I want to invite listeners to write to us, oth@2600.com, with your opinions, your thoughts, your observations on our show.
[50:13.620 --> 50:14.660] [SPEAKER_03]: And, Kyle, go ahead.
[50:15.360 --> 50:24.160] [SPEAKER_06]: I was just going to add that it may be a result of people in your area, that's the kind of stuff they're consuming, so it's serving you stuff of like-minded individuals in your geographic location.
[50:24.280 --> 50:24.400] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[50:24.400 --> 50:31.900] [SPEAKER_03]: So, continuing, we'll be back again next week, and please keep listening to WBAI.
[50:32.020 --> 50:44.700] [SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to go out with someone who is near and dear to WBAI, and that, of course, is George Carlin, and his thoughts on politicians and how it might apply today.
[50:44.980 --> 50:45.440] [SPEAKER_03]: Good night.