Off The Hook - 2021-02-03

[00:06.640 --> 00:17.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, now, this time, this time, Off The Hook is ready to do a program.
[00:17.840 --> 00:28.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, without further ado, stay tuned for Off The Hook here on WBAI New York, 99.5 FM and WBAI.org online.
[00:33.660 --> 00:34.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're sorry.
[00:35.060 --> 00:40.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: The number you have reached, 99.5 WBAI, is now Off The Hook.
[01:45.490 --> 01:47.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[01:47.910 --> 01:50.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: The program is finally Off The Hook.
[01:51.310 --> 01:52.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Welcome, welcome.
[01:52.750 --> 01:56.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, just so you know, Kyle, you've been tearing your hair out.
[01:57.250 --> 01:58.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: I want to apologize.
[01:58.890 --> 01:59.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: Just blame me.
[02:00.490 --> 02:01.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: But it wasn't your fault.
[02:01.730 --> 02:08.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, there's a little bit on my end, but I also want to thank everybody on the engineering end at the station for their patience and helping us troubleshoot.
[02:08.790 --> 02:09.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I don't know if you communicated.
[02:09.930 --> 02:12.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to try and go a little longer so that we make up for all the time.
[02:12.370 --> 02:12.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: We lost.
[02:12.890 --> 02:12.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[02:13.050 --> 02:14.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe instead of 55, we're out.
[02:14.670 --> 02:15.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll be out at 58.
[02:15.770 --> 02:16.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: How about that?
[02:16.810 --> 02:17.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[02:17.150 --> 02:18.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Please don't cut us off over there.
[02:18.690 --> 02:19.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Trying to communicate.
[02:19.330 --> 02:20.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: You guys, you don't talk on the phone.
[02:20.830 --> 02:21.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: You text each other.
[02:21.690 --> 02:22.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why do you do that?
[02:22.850 --> 02:26.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, having a you having a technical crisis and you're going to type, type, type, type, type.
[02:26.890 --> 02:29.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was my talking to somebody directly on the phone.
[02:29.350 --> 02:30.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Where did that skill go?
[02:30.990 --> 02:31.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why don't we have that?
[02:32.010 --> 02:33.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: A mistake I made.
[02:33.250 --> 02:37.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: Also, the phone wasn't working quite the way I was expecting the one that I was monitoring.
[02:37.790 --> 02:41.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: But suffice it to say, it was a little bit of a back and forth.
[02:42.250 --> 02:43.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a show about technology.
[02:43.350 --> 02:44.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know that, right?
[02:44.010 --> 02:45.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: We've been off the air for a couple of weeks.
[02:45.710 --> 02:47.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is our second show of the year.
[02:47.890 --> 02:51.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's the second month of the year, but it's only our second show of the year.
[02:51.310 --> 02:54.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, we got the cobwebs out and hopefully it should be smooth sailing from here.
[02:55.070 --> 02:56.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Joe Biden, you were supposed to make things better.
[02:57.090 --> 02:57.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: What's going on?
[02:58.110 --> 03:00.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, we have other people joining us.
[03:00.370 --> 03:02.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hopefully I can do this without making a horrible noise.
[03:02.530 --> 03:03.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's see.
[03:04.850 --> 03:05.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[03:05.570 --> 03:07.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Looks like we have Alex.
[03:07.750 --> 03:08.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is that Alex?
[03:08.770 --> 03:09.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's Alex.
[03:10.530 --> 03:11.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: It is I.
[03:11.470 --> 03:12.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening, everyone.
[03:12.330 --> 03:12.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Look at you.
[03:12.790 --> 03:12.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[03:13.330 --> 03:13.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[03:13.810 --> 03:14.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Welcome.
[03:14.570 --> 03:15.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: And Rob T. Firefly?
[03:17.110 --> 03:17.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: Good evening.
[03:18.790 --> 03:19.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: How are you doing?
[03:21.130 --> 03:21.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hanging in there.
[03:21.930 --> 03:22.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hanging in there.
[03:22.430 --> 03:22.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[03:22.790 --> 03:24.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: And Gila, is that you?
[03:24.310 --> 03:25.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think I see you.
[03:25.190 --> 03:26.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Greetings and salutations.
[03:26.410 --> 03:27.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, it's me.
[03:28.450 --> 03:28.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Awesome.
[03:29.010 --> 03:29.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[03:29.490 --> 03:29.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[03:29.770 --> 03:30.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: So we're all together finally.
[03:30.730 --> 03:36.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Off The Hook, the show about how to do technology properly and get things working smoothly.
[03:36.590 --> 03:40.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're listening to WBAI in New York, in case that didn't become obvious.
[03:41.650 --> 03:50.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we are here to talk about the latest in hacking and privacy issues and things like that.
[03:51.790 --> 03:56.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, could I take a moment and just kvetch about a few things?
[03:56.450 --> 03:59.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because I've been kind of holding this in for the last three weeks.
[03:59.310 --> 04:03.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: We haven't been on since, gosh, since before the inauguration.
[04:03.450 --> 04:07.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is our first show after Trump, our first post-Trump show.
[04:07.450 --> 04:08.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you realize that?
[04:08.790 --> 04:09.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that happened.
[04:10.010 --> 04:10.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Huh.
[04:10.750 --> 04:11.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was forgetting that.
[04:11.630 --> 04:19.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: But there are still problems, still quite a few problems, and problems that, specific to me, that I just would like to deal with.
[04:20.030 --> 04:26.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've been going nuts trying to resolve situations now for, believe it or not, over a year.
[04:27.210 --> 04:36.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: You remember a year or so ago, we went to a part of Quebec called Shefferville, which you get to by taking a train that's run by the native community.
[04:37.650 --> 04:38.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Amazing trip.
[04:38.950 --> 04:44.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: We were hearing about this thing called the coronavirus that was spreading in China as we were going up there.
[04:44.570 --> 04:46.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was just about a year ago.
[04:46.890 --> 04:49.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: Quite a road trip, too, in driving snow.
[04:50.250 --> 04:50.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[04:50.330 --> 04:51.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was incredible.
[04:51.490 --> 04:51.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[04:51.810 --> 04:53.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: You don't just go there.
[04:53.270 --> 04:53.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have to...
[04:53.910 --> 05:00.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: We went through Montreal and Quebec, which was great, but then you had to drive almost a full day from Quebec to a place called Sheffield.
[05:01.710 --> 05:12.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's in that particular community that I had an issue, because I booked a place for us to stay, and I went through this website you might have heard of called Hotels.com.
[05:12.550 --> 05:25.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: And as is the case, when you go to hotels, even after booking with various online services, they ask for your credit card so that, you know, in case there are any incidentals or you trash the room or something like that, they have something to hold you accountable.
[05:26.710 --> 05:28.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I did that when I went there.
[05:28.830 --> 05:39.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: And lo and behold, when I got back and I checked my credit card statement, because that's what you should do, I noticed that I was billed by Hotels.com and by the hotel for the same stay.
[05:40.170 --> 05:46.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: And for the whole last year, I have been emailing Hotels.com trying to get this fixed.
[05:46.470 --> 05:50.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: They've been emailing me back saying, yes, we're having trouble contacting the hotel.
[05:50.090 --> 05:51.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: They don't speak English.
[05:51.210 --> 05:52.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're not responsive.
[05:52.590 --> 05:54.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, I've been so patient.
[05:54.150 --> 05:58.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm wondering, how is this my problem that they can't communicate with one of their own clients?
[05:59.670 --> 06:09.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now it's gotten to the stage a year later where I'm saying, okay, guys, come on, give me back, you know, my 70 bucks or how much I spent to stay in this place and just not getting any answers whatsoever.
[06:10.410 --> 06:11.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Alex, do you have a solution for me?
[06:12.870 --> 06:13.190]  [SPEAKER_14]: Perhaps.
[06:13.450 --> 06:14.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, let's hear it.
[06:14.390 --> 06:16.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm going to ask a series of questions here.
[06:17.070 --> 06:18.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, boy, the lawyer begins.
[06:18.550 --> 06:19.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, go ahead.
[06:19.150 --> 06:19.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[06:19.790 --> 06:20.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Here we go.
[06:20.290 --> 06:21.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let me square myself in.
[06:21.350 --> 06:23.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: When you booked a hotel, did you use a credit card?
[06:23.870 --> 06:24.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, of course I did.
[06:24.770 --> 06:25.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: What do you think?
[06:25.030 --> 06:26.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: I paid cash over the Internet?
[06:27.350 --> 06:31.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, sometimes you can make a reservation without using your credit card, like with a car reservation.
[06:31.310 --> 06:33.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that doesn't always work, but that's another story.
[06:34.470 --> 06:34.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[06:35.010 --> 06:37.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: When you went to the hotel, did you use the same credit card?
[06:38.290 --> 06:40.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not sure if it's the same credit card.
[06:40.410 --> 06:47.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: It might have been a different variation, like, you know, under the same credit card company but a different credit card, maybe.
[06:48.130 --> 06:53.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: And did the hotel and Hotels.com charge the same credit card?
[06:54.370 --> 06:55.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: You just asked me that.
[06:56.230 --> 06:58.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I said I'm not sure it was the same credit card.
[06:58.830 --> 06:58.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: What?
[07:00.070 --> 07:03.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: So Hotels.com and the physical hotel itself built the same card.
[07:04.450 --> 07:04.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[07:04.830 --> 07:07.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: For the third time, I don't know for sure if it...
[07:07.410 --> 07:08.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow, I feel like I'm on the stand.
[07:08.630 --> 07:11.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know for sure if it was the same credit card.
[07:11.450 --> 07:12.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: It might have been a different credit card.
[07:12.730 --> 07:13.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: But it could have been...
[07:14.510 --> 07:16.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think Rob just dove out.
[07:16.890 --> 07:22.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: It could have been two credit cards run by the same company, you know, as in...
[07:22.750 --> 07:26.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not going to name credit card companies because then I'm giving them free publicity.
[07:26.970 --> 07:28.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: But you know what I'm talking about.
[07:28.090 --> 07:32.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: Have you paid the balance on these charges or are they still outstanding on your balance?
[07:32.730 --> 07:34.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's January of 2020.
[07:34.270 --> 07:35.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: What do you think?
[07:35.070 --> 07:36.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you think I have an outstanding balance for over a year?
[07:38.010 --> 07:48.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, look, under the Truth in Lending Act, if you don't pay the balance of your card and it's still on your card, then you can put the charge into dispute with the credit card company and it becomes their problem.
[07:48.730 --> 07:52.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: You shift the burden by not paying the actual balance.
[07:52.150 --> 07:56.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, you're telling me something well over a year after it happened that what I should have done.
[07:57.550 --> 07:59.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm not sure that would have worked anyway.
[08:00.310 --> 08:01.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, this is the first time you asked.
[08:01.570 --> 08:02.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, okay.
[08:02.050 --> 08:04.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: You've got to ask for advice if you want, if you need it.
[08:04.450 --> 08:05.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: I am a hostile witness.
[08:05.530 --> 08:06.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: I really feel that right now.
[08:07.850 --> 08:09.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: I haven't gotten to my second.
[08:09.210 --> 08:12.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: I have four different things to get off my chest here.
[08:12.490 --> 08:14.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's going to take this long for each one.
[08:15.030 --> 08:16.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, the second one is network solutions.
[08:16.710 --> 08:23.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, for some reason, for some reason, I have been billed for something called professional email.
[08:24.410 --> 08:26.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it happens every year.
[08:26.690 --> 08:27.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: They bill me for this.
[08:28.370 --> 08:32.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I contact them and I say, stop billing me for this.
[08:33.370 --> 08:35.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I don't get responses.
[08:35.490 --> 08:38.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, I'm pretty busy, so I don't have time to constantly follow up.
[08:38.490 --> 08:42.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: I emailed their support line, support at network solutions dot com.
[08:43.010 --> 08:45.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Guess what I just discovered prior to airtime?
[08:45.270 --> 08:48.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Support at network solutions dot com doesn't answer.
[08:48.910 --> 08:58.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's one of those email addresses where they say, if you look at the very bottom, they say, don't send mail to this address because it's not an address that receives mail.
[08:58.430 --> 09:05.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: So all this time, I've been emailing something called support that is as unsupportive as you could possibly imagine.
[09:05.330 --> 09:09.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I'm trying to get this this auto charge taken off my card from network solutions.
[09:10.150 --> 09:13.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I what you have to do is you have to call them.
[09:13.150 --> 09:16.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: But in order to call them, you have to wait online.
[09:16.370 --> 09:18.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's going to take you a couple of hours, probably.
[09:19.010 --> 09:22.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I don't have time just to get a minor charge taken off my card.
[09:22.910 --> 09:28.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: So year after year, they're billing me for something that they have no right to bill me for.
[09:28.510 --> 09:36.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the other crazy thing about this, on that same trip up to Shefferville, I lost my credit card on the train to Montreal.
[09:36.890 --> 09:38.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I had to change my credit card number.
[09:38.910 --> 09:47.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Network solutions got very upset by that because when they were trying to bill me fraudulently last year, they didn't know my credit card number because it had changed.
[09:47.490 --> 09:50.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, at the time, I figured, this is good.
[09:50.270 --> 09:51.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not going to tell them.
[09:51.330 --> 09:59.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: They somehow found out my new credit card number because the bill showed up on my next statement, even though I had never told them my new credit card number.
[09:59.350 --> 10:03.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: So somebody ratted me out at the credit card company or they're just very good at guessing.
[10:06.630 --> 10:08.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, you got something for me now, Alex?
[10:09.790 --> 10:10.190]  [SPEAKER_14]: Always.
[10:10.650 --> 10:12.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, same type of thing.
[10:12.410 --> 10:16.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, you can put this charge in dispute and then shift the burden.
[10:17.010 --> 10:21.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: Have your card issue or contact network solutions for some kind of justification that the charge is valid.
[10:22.190 --> 10:23.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: You do that.
[10:23.190 --> 10:33.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's also kind of annoying to them because you are making them spend the time instead of you spending the time trying to get, you know, a $7 charge or whatever the hell it is, taking it off your bill.
[10:33.350 --> 10:40.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, you know, the corollary to this is, I find, somewhat fascinating, right?
[10:40.210 --> 10:43.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because, let's say you steal...
[10:43.870 --> 10:51.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's say, Emmanuel, you've got, you know, a million dollars under your desk right there, right now, hypothetically.
[10:51.590 --> 10:53.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: I know you've got close to that sitting there.
[10:53.890 --> 10:54.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: I see the cash.
[10:54.770 --> 10:57.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know where all that cash is coming from every week, but...
[10:57.750 --> 10:58.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's counterfeit.
[10:58.710 --> 11:00.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's counterfeit, but let's not get into that now.
[11:01.810 --> 11:02.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[11:02.530 --> 11:02.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[11:02.850 --> 11:04.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's talk about that off...
[11:04.430 --> 11:07.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe I'm Off The Hook Overtime or something when we're off the air, all right?
[11:07.630 --> 11:09.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, we're not privy to the same rules.
[11:10.770 --> 11:11.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: Very, very good.
[11:11.850 --> 11:15.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: But let's say, you know, somebody steals a million dollars, right?
[11:15.370 --> 11:18.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's worth trying to fight to get that back.
[11:18.250 --> 11:26.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's worth throwing some money at that to go through legal process, to hire a lawyer, to make a claim for conversion, theft, fraud, whatever, right?
[11:26.610 --> 11:28.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's worth fighting for a million dollars to get it back.
[11:29.010 --> 11:37.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: But if somebody steals $4.95 from you every year or, you know, every month or whatever the hell it is, right?
[11:37.450 --> 11:38.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's a small amount of money.
[11:38.570 --> 11:39.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's just not worth fighting for.
[11:39.630 --> 11:40.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's not worth your time.
[11:40.530 --> 11:41.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is what you said.
[11:41.330 --> 11:52.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, the way to steal a large amount of money and get away with it most of the time is by stealing a small amount of money from a large number of people.
[11:52.470 --> 11:57.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it's like skimming off a bank account, taking a fraction of a penny, nobody notices, and you have a million dollars before you know it.
[11:57.990 --> 11:58.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that's true.
[11:58.550 --> 12:07.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, or charging $1.99 to 100 million of your customers every year, are all of them going to dispute that?
[12:07.410 --> 12:24.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, the vast majority of them are not going to do that, but this is why things like class actions were developed in the law, so that you could recoup that money, so that it made sense for lawyers to bring these types of actions against companies that were stealing small amounts of money or had,
[12:24.550 --> 12:29.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: you know, questionable billing practices for small amounts of money dispersed over a large number of people.
[12:29.790 --> 12:35.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: But for you to spend four or five hours to try to get this charge off your bill is just crazy.
[12:35.610 --> 12:49.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: But if it has been dispersed over, let's say, 1,000, 10,000, maybe 100,000, maybe a million people that Network Solutions is doing this to, possibly even more, given how many domain names for which they act as registrar.
[12:50.970 --> 12:53.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, you know, maybe there is something.
[12:53.310 --> 12:57.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not saying they're intentionally going out for originally billing people.
[12:57.110 --> 13:01.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: What I am saying is they're making it ridiculously hard to communicate about it.
[13:01.290 --> 13:02.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: I can't even email them.
[13:02.730 --> 13:07.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm emailing an address that's called support, and it doesn't go anywhere.
[13:07.610 --> 13:08.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: That is insane.
[13:08.810 --> 13:18.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't want to have to call them on the phone and spend a lot of time explaining the situation and then waiting for a resolution and hoping, crossing my fingers, that they're going to give me back the pittance that they're ripping me off for.
[13:19.370 --> 13:20.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: These companies need to be accountable.
[13:21.310 --> 13:28.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, this conversation is already more than enough time that I want to spend on this particular issue, and I'm sure our listeners agree with that.
[13:28.510 --> 13:33.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let me just get quickly to the other issues that have been driving me crazy.
[13:35.330 --> 13:38.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: Some close friends have had some COVID issues.
[13:38.790 --> 13:44.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've been trying to get them some N95 masks or even KN95 masks, and I ordered some.
[13:44.630 --> 14:02.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: I actually found a mainstream news article that pointed to a site through Amazon, and I ordered this, and I paid for overnight shipping, and they gave me a tracking number, and one day went by, two days went by, three days went by.
[14:02.630 --> 14:09.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: The tracking number in the USPS website said, yeah, we know about this tracking number, but it hasn't been given to us yet.
[14:09.970 --> 14:14.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's called pre-receipt or pre-delivery or something like that.
[14:14.670 --> 14:16.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, so, you know, a week goes by.
[14:16.270 --> 14:23.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've already paid for overnight shipping, and this thing hasn't even been received by the post office yet, let alone delivered to me.
[14:23.850 --> 14:26.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: So now I'm complaining to Amazon.
[14:26.330 --> 14:28.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Amazon says, not our problem, because this is a third-party.
[14:28.950 --> 14:31.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have nothing to do with that, even though we're the ones that billed you.
[14:31.830 --> 14:33.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: So you're going to have to try and work it out with them.
[14:34.250 --> 14:39.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you file a dispute and two days go by and they don't get back to you, then maybe we'll tell you some other way.
[14:40.710 --> 14:50.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I did that, and then I tried to post a review on the Amazon website about how, you know, when you order something, you generally assume that it's going to arrive.
[14:50.750 --> 14:53.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: In this particular case, it doesn't, so don't fall for that.
[14:53.930 --> 14:58.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: That was rejected because you can only review things that are products.
[14:58.730 --> 15:00.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can't review something that you didn't get.
[15:00.810 --> 15:05.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: So because they didn't send it to me, I couldn't review it, so I couldn't criticize them for not sending it to me.
[15:06.350 --> 15:07.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: So that was frustrating.
[15:07.470 --> 15:18.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Then, one day, just suddenly, I received a notice from USPS saying, hey, your parcel is here, without any kind of tracking whatsoever up until that point.
[15:18.690 --> 15:25.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: So USPS kind of joined in on this by not actually updating me at any stage except when it was received.
[15:25.250 --> 15:26.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was still a week later.
[15:26.310 --> 15:32.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: I still paid for overnight shipping, and it's quite possible these masks are counterfeit because that's what everybody who is posting reviews seems to be saying.
[15:32.990 --> 15:39.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: But it was recommended by a mainstream news site, and I just kind of fell for it, I guess.
[15:39.770 --> 15:41.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: So that's a bit annoying.
[15:41.950 --> 15:46.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the final complaint I have is from my own phone.
[15:48.350 --> 15:53.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: I get spam constantly from Samsung because it's a Samsung phone.
[15:53.050 --> 15:54.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're always trying to sell me the new phone.
[15:55.910 --> 16:01.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, I get these pictures, and it's just so annoying, and you can't stop it.
[16:01.390 --> 16:05.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: And now, my phone is complaining to me, saying that Galaxy Store is using battery.
[16:06.090 --> 16:07.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the Samsung store.
[16:07.670 --> 16:11.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's complaining to me that this app is draining my battery.
[16:11.710 --> 16:16.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I'm trying to get rid of the app, but you can't get rid of that app because it's Samsung's app.
[16:16.770 --> 16:17.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it's stuck there.
[16:17.790 --> 16:23.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm stuck having my battery drained from an app that's sending me spam that I don't want to receive.
[16:23.430 --> 16:25.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Samsung, why would I ever buy another phone from you?
[16:25.910 --> 16:26.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Explain that to me.
[16:27.450 --> 16:28.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, I'm done.
[16:28.430 --> 16:29.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: I feel better.
[16:32.280 --> 16:37.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't really have much to offer in form of advice for that one, Emmanuel.
[16:37.560 --> 16:41.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I think, you know, based on the last two, you should just give up.
[16:41.600 --> 16:43.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, no, you never give up.
[16:43.100 --> 16:44.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, the important thing is to vent.
[16:45.020 --> 16:48.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: The important thing is to not listen to people who tell you, don't complain.
[16:48.940 --> 16:50.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: And complaining is good.
[16:50.600 --> 16:52.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, complaining does a lot of good.
[16:52.700 --> 16:53.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: It really does.
[16:53.680 --> 16:53.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: It does.
[16:54.040 --> 16:54.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's somewhat cathartic.
[16:54.880 --> 16:55.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Absolutely.
[16:55.620 --> 17:03.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: I've had some similar complaints about apps that are not removable under the default OS.
[17:04.160 --> 17:05.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: Are you going to complain now, Kyle?
[17:05.320 --> 17:07.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I find that that is really irritating.
[17:07.580 --> 17:30.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I think this is something that maybe when you are customizing the packages on your phone or you're rooting it or otherwise modifying the operating system, I guess that's one of the perks of doing that, where you can get around software that's otherwise kind of baked in and doesn't seem like it can be removed.
[17:30.880 --> 17:39.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because if anything, you know, if we've learned anything in discussions here, it's that none of this is really set.
[17:39.640 --> 17:42.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's just they want it to be that difficult.
[17:42.200 --> 17:50.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: They want it to be there, a window into selling you more products.
[17:51.360 --> 18:05.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: And using your own data to do that, they're using a resource that you pay dearly for to send you those images and that content.
[18:05.700 --> 18:17.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: So certainly it seems to me that you shouldn't have to change the OS or be in some developer mode or something just to have control over the software on a cellular phone.
[18:17.480 --> 18:27.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that is one of the distinctions between these operating systems and the way they're integrated and the way you're supposed to use them.
[18:28.440 --> 18:36.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: And like a general computer, like a Linux distribution or other operating system that allows you a lot more freedom.
[18:38.220 --> 18:38.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Very true.
[18:39.020 --> 18:39.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Very true.
[18:39.560 --> 18:40.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Rob, go ahead.
[18:40.900 --> 18:50.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, you know, part of the deal about choosing Android as a platform is it's supposed to ostensibly be an open platform in the sense that it's based on Linux.
[18:50.480 --> 18:52.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: Anybody can develop for it and so on and so on.
[18:53.280 --> 18:56.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: But Samsung, it's been a long time since I had a Samsung phone.
[18:56.160 --> 18:58.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: And it's precisely because of this behavior of theirs.
[18:58.360 --> 19:02.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: They're basically like the Apple of Android, where they want to lock things down.
[19:02.760 --> 19:09.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: They want to use the platform to get their own junk to you over letting you just use your own device the way you wanted to.
[19:09.440 --> 19:11.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: And yeah, I abandoned that brand hard.
[19:11.740 --> 19:15.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: But I think you mentioned alternative OS's.
[19:15.660 --> 19:24.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I think projects like Lineage OS that are open and free operating systems for smartphones, I think they pretty well support the Samsung line.
[19:25.140 --> 19:26.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: So it might be something to look into.
[19:26.880 --> 19:34.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: So it would work on the hardware, but you could easily jettison the sort of OEM stuff that they bundle with it when you buy it new?
[19:36.980 --> 19:39.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I'm not a big fan of constantly buying phones.
[19:39.740 --> 19:40.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're immensely expensive.
[19:41.160 --> 19:41.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're great.
[19:42.020 --> 19:42.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: They do amazing things.
[19:43.080 --> 19:46.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: But people are shunning out more than $1,000 for new phones.
[19:47.000 --> 19:49.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's crazy.
[19:49.480 --> 19:49.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's crazy.
[19:49.980 --> 19:58.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: You should be able to make technology last longer and use things for many years and build upon those things before replacing them entirely.
[19:58.980 --> 19:59.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, Alex.
[20:00.660 --> 20:03.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I totally agree with that, Emmanuel.
[20:03.180 --> 20:08.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the phone rat race, I feel like, was at its height when the iPhone 6 came out.
[20:09.640 --> 20:10.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: When was that?
[20:10.380 --> 20:11.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Back in 2014, I think it was.
[20:11.820 --> 20:12.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: How many iPhones are there now?
[20:12.900 --> 20:13.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: What are they up to?
[20:14.500 --> 20:15.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't even know.
[20:15.340 --> 20:15.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Twelve?
[20:15.800 --> 20:18.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: The fact that we all know this is part of the problem.
[20:19.060 --> 20:22.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: But everybody I know who has an iPhone has bought every single one of them.
[20:22.620 --> 20:24.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: What does that say about the quality of the product?
[20:25.540 --> 20:27.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it is ridiculous to do that.
[20:27.580 --> 20:31.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, I had an issue with my phone right at the outset of HOPE this year.
[20:31.740 --> 20:36.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, you know, for readers of the magazine, I wrote a column about this.
[20:36.540 --> 20:37.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: I know that in the...
[20:37.720 --> 20:42.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: I guess it was a summer column that became the fall issue, whatever that was.
[20:42.400 --> 20:43.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Anyhow, artificial interruptions.
[20:43.780 --> 20:44.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wait, do you use an iPhone?
[20:45.620 --> 20:46.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: I do, yeah.
[20:46.780 --> 20:47.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh.
[20:49.300 --> 20:49.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, go ahead.
[20:50.000 --> 20:50.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[20:50.500 --> 20:50.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, go ahead.
[20:51.040 --> 20:51.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Continue.
[20:51.460 --> 20:51.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just...
[20:51.880 --> 20:52.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[20:52.220 --> 20:53.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll just sit back.
[20:53.260 --> 20:58.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I had the iPhone 8 Plus and then had to upgrade, you know, at that particular time.
[20:59.140 --> 21:03.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it was such a frustrating situation for me because the screen had cracked.
[21:04.040 --> 21:04.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: I needed a phone.
[21:04.800 --> 21:10.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: I had really tried not to upgrade my phone for so long because I was so sick of the phone rat race.
[21:10.320 --> 21:11.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it worked perfectly fine for me.
[21:11.540 --> 21:12.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I didn't need a new phone.
[21:12.560 --> 21:13.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was secure.
[21:13.640 --> 21:14.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: The hardware was supported.
[21:15.040 --> 21:16.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: But finally, I had to go get a new phone.
[21:16.860 --> 21:18.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: They wanted to charge me well over $1,000 for it.
[21:18.860 --> 21:32.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then finally, when I went in the middle of this pandemic to a store, a mall, so a store within a store, a space within a space, to get this new iPhone, they then tell me we only have 64 gig versions here.
[21:32.880 --> 21:33.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: We don't have anything higher than that.
[21:34.000 --> 21:35.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Anything that you have to order online.
[21:36.100 --> 21:38.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, well, then why the hell did you tell me to come down to the store?
[21:38.660 --> 21:41.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I'm waiting in there, you know, 20 minutes with this mask on.
[21:41.400 --> 21:47.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, there's some family with, you know, 12 different issues and 17 different phones ahead of me.
[21:47.040 --> 21:48.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I'm sitting there, sweating.
[21:49.260 --> 21:51.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: At an event, I felt...
[21:51.020 --> 21:58.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I ordered the phone, but I felt like I got really, really ripped off at that point for spending over $1,000 for a new device that I didn't want.
[21:59.220 --> 22:05.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then, on my way back, driving back from this mall, I said, you know what?
[22:05.320 --> 22:06.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is just ridiculous.
[22:06.760 --> 22:09.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm going to see if there's someplace I can just fix the screen.
[22:09.440 --> 22:13.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I found a service that actually was able to fix the screen.
[22:13.400 --> 22:19.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they came to my place here in the Poconos in the middle of this pandemic and did it without leaving their car.
[22:19.840 --> 22:21.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: I just handed it up on the phone.
[22:21.120 --> 22:24.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: They fixed the phone in the driveway, gave it back to me, and then I could cancel the order.
[22:25.100 --> 22:29.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, you know, canceling the order became a huge, huge ordeal with T-Mobile.
[22:29.940 --> 22:32.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that was really what sparked me to write that column for the magazine.
[22:33.960 --> 22:36.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, yeah, I mean, it's extraordinarily frustrating.
[22:36.860 --> 22:41.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: This whole notion of having to get a new phone and being locked into it is ridiculous.
[22:41.460 --> 22:43.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's great to be able to complain like this.
[22:43.960 --> 22:45.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, we can fill the whole hour.
[22:45.600 --> 22:49.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Folks, if you want to complain about something, you can call us at 8 o'clock.
[22:50.080 --> 22:55.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll be doing Overtime on YouTube, the YouTube channel called Channel2600.
[22:55.600 --> 22:58.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: One word starts at 8 o'clock.
[22:58.200 --> 23:01.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Our phone number is 802-321-HACK.
[23:01.300 --> 23:04.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's 802-321-4225.
[23:04.360 --> 23:05.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't call it now.
[23:05.340 --> 23:06.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Call it after 8 o'clock.
[23:06.460 --> 23:10.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we'll put you on the air, I guess, in quotes.
[23:10.320 --> 23:12.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because it's not over the radio, but it's over the Internet.
[23:12.580 --> 23:14.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's also archived.
[23:14.740 --> 23:15.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, Gila.
[23:16.060 --> 23:19.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, I was just going to say, I am also an iPhone user.
[23:20.100 --> 23:20.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh.
[23:20.580 --> 23:21.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Sorry to say.
[23:21.300 --> 23:22.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: I didn't know that either.
[23:22.520 --> 23:22.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: I know.
[23:22.740 --> 23:23.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hi, Gila.
[23:23.060 --> 23:24.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: I feel like you just lost the respect for me.
[23:25.760 --> 23:26.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you.
[23:26.400 --> 23:27.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you, Kyle.
[23:27.040 --> 23:31.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I'm also just going to complain a little bit.
[23:31.960 --> 23:36.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: My phone, I bought it through my phone provider.
[23:36.660 --> 23:38.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: I have two payments left.
[23:38.800 --> 23:42.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it is now beginning to act up in a very significant way.
[23:42.420 --> 23:42.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: It knows.
[23:43.040 --> 23:43.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: It knows.
[23:43.660 --> 23:44.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: I know it knows.
[23:45.420 --> 23:49.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it's fascinating and frustrating.
[23:49.120 --> 23:55.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: But the thing I was going to say about the apps is I am not clever enough to jailbreak anything on my phone.
[23:55.640 --> 24:02.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: But what I did do was create a folder and hid everything that came preloaded on my phone into it.
[24:02.980 --> 24:04.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: So I never touch it.
[24:04.300 --> 24:05.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: I just hid everything.
[24:06.200 --> 24:09.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: So I'm never tempted to use any of those apps.
[24:09.340 --> 24:10.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's smart.
[24:10.800 --> 24:11.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: That is smart.
[24:13.140 --> 24:14.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, you got to...
[24:15.020 --> 24:18.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: On the other hand, they're hidden in a folder.
[24:18.500 --> 24:26.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: But if one of them decides it wants to start using your battery a lot, like the Samsung store, then it's still going to be doing that.
[24:26.060 --> 24:26.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: For sure.
[24:26.420 --> 24:30.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: But at least I can remind myself that I don't want to use Apple Maps.
[24:30.400 --> 24:32.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: I want to use a different map app.
[24:33.520 --> 24:36.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I'm not tempted to use Apple Maps, which is not good.
[24:37.160 --> 24:40.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: But the app, not the fact that I don't want to use it, just to clarify.
[24:40.940 --> 24:41.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[24:41.460 --> 24:43.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I think we've gotten a lot of this out of our systems.
[24:44.040 --> 24:47.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: I do want to focus some attention on the Parler story.
[24:48.060 --> 24:52.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: We've talked about it a little bit before, but this is really kind of inspirational.
[24:52.840 --> 24:58.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Parler being the so-called free speech site where all the conservatives ran off to.
[24:59.720 --> 25:02.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not really that much of a free speech site.
[25:02.440 --> 25:03.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: I registered an account there.
[25:03.960 --> 25:04.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: I know other people who did.
[25:04.880 --> 25:08.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it was almost immediately deleted without us saying anything, apparently, just because of who we are.
[25:10.020 --> 25:19.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: So to call it something where free speech reigns, no, it's just basically a site where you might feel safe doing things that aren't allowed on other sites that have rules.
[25:20.060 --> 25:23.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: So Parler was basically kicked off the cloud.
[25:23.660 --> 25:24.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: It feels good to say that.
[25:25.560 --> 25:29.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: And basically, do they have a home?
[25:29.740 --> 25:30.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are they up?
[25:30.620 --> 25:31.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: I haven't checked.
[25:31.860 --> 25:32.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Does anybody know?
[25:32.880 --> 25:34.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think they're up-ish.
[25:34.620 --> 25:37.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think there's some sort of Russian...
[25:38.160 --> 25:39.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: component to it, as far as I understand.
[25:40.640 --> 25:43.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: What's that scary man, Robert Monster?
[25:44.000 --> 25:44.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Was that his name?
[25:44.960 --> 25:45.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, the guy...
[25:45.540 --> 25:46.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, we talked about this.
[25:46.840 --> 25:48.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: The guy whose name is actually Monster.
[25:49.300 --> 25:51.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: He's the CEO of Epic, which is the registrar.
[25:51.820 --> 25:53.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: That was in Washington State, right?
[25:54.000 --> 25:54.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[25:54.660 --> 25:54.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[25:55.360 --> 26:00.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, anyway, the point is, they basically couldn't have handled it any worse.
[26:01.220 --> 26:10.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: And once they were de-platformed by AWS, Amazon Web Services, Google, Apple, they were basically erased off the network.
[26:11.820 --> 26:18.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: But then, a lot of their information suddenly became available.
[26:19.160 --> 26:26.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: 56.7 terabytes of data that just magically started to appear.
[26:26.560 --> 26:42.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, the quick thinking of a self-described hacker by the name of Donk Enby and a host of amateur data hoarders preserved most of that data and have been using it to piece together what happened on January 6th and the weeks and months leading up to it.
[26:43.380 --> 26:57.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, Donk Enby was able to scrape and capture and archive nearly the entire content of the website after it became clear that hundreds of Trump supporters had uploaded potentially incriminating photos and videos of themselves to the platform, many filming from inside the Capitol itself.
[26:57.160 --> 27:10.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, when news of Donk Enby's archival efforts broke, several viral tweets, Reddit posts, and Facebook posts claimed that she had captured private information, scans of driver's licenses and IDs and other highly sensitive information.
[27:10.140 --> 27:12.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: She said those posts are not at all accurate.
[27:13.000 --> 27:15.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Everything we grabbed was publicly available on the web.
[27:16.100 --> 27:18.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: We just made a permanent public snapshot of it.
[27:18.540 --> 27:20.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Very Jason Scott-ish of you.
[27:21.300 --> 27:26.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Nevertheless, with the FBI, state and local law enforcement and open-source investigators looking...
[27:26.920 --> 27:35.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: I like that, open-source investigators looking for media from the attack on January 6th, the archive could be highly useful to a whole host of people.
[27:36.740 --> 27:41.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: She says, I hope that it can be used to hold people accountable and to prevent more death.
[27:41.540 --> 27:46.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think people should be allowed to have their own opinion as long as they can act civilized.
[27:46.320 --> 27:51.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: And on Wednesday, we saw what can happen if they don't, Wednesday, January 6th.
[27:52.860 --> 27:54.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, Gila, what do you think of this?
[27:54.920 --> 27:59.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, there's that, but there's also been a really recent development with Parler.
[27:59.800 --> 28:03.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: I actually found out about it about five to ten minutes before we were supposed to go on the air.
[28:04.500 --> 28:09.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I asked Rob to share it with everybody because he's got a computer.
[28:09.080 --> 28:13.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: But the CEO of Parler has been fired.
[28:14.360 --> 28:17.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: That news broke about an hour and a half ago.
[28:18.000 --> 28:20.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: So is that a good thing for him or a bad thing for him?
[28:21.340 --> 28:21.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: Unclear.
[28:22.200 --> 28:27.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: He said, the board decided to immediately terminate my position as CEO of Parler.
[28:28.000 --> 28:29.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: He wrote a memo to the staff.
[28:29.840 --> 28:31.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: His name is John Matzi.
[28:31.260 --> 28:32.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know how that's pronounced.
[28:32.780 --> 28:34.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mats, Matzi, either way.
[28:35.060 --> 28:38.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: He's blaming Rebecca Mercer, who is the chair of the board.
[28:40.080 --> 28:41.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: His last name is Matzi?
[28:42.060 --> 28:42.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: What is that?
[28:42.900 --> 28:43.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: M-A-T-Z-E.
[28:43.780 --> 28:44.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: What does that rhyme with?
[28:46.640 --> 28:47.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Interesting.
[28:48.140 --> 28:50.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can't write this stuff, can you?
[28:50.240 --> 28:50.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: You really can't.
[28:51.140 --> 28:52.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, no.
[28:52.380 --> 28:53.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: So it's...
[28:54.520 --> 28:56.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Things are obviously still developing there.
[28:56.680 --> 28:57.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I'm...
[28:57.380 --> 29:02.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, apparently he's saying that he was pushing for freer speech than the board was willing to permit.
[29:02.840 --> 29:05.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: It is, I think, the way he's trying to spin it.
[29:05.540 --> 29:05.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[29:06.380 --> 29:11.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm sure that means a lot of Marjorie Taylor Greene type things being...
[29:11.320 --> 29:12.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: I can only imagine, yes.
[29:12.600 --> 29:22.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I see this as a save by the investors to try to say that the activity that this led to was an anomaly, right?
[29:22.440 --> 29:24.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is a way to, like, save face.
[29:24.720 --> 29:38.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, we're going to temper the activity and it's basically a PR strategy to make the investors seem like this is not what they condone, even though we know it is.
[29:38.540 --> 29:39.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that they...
[29:39.980 --> 29:45.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: That it just simply got out of control and that they're taking steps now.
[29:45.440 --> 29:49.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Of course, you know, the most irksome phrase, taking steps.
[29:50.020 --> 29:55.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Of course, Facebook was led to take steps forever without accountability.
[29:55.660 --> 29:57.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: And this is much the same thing.
[29:57.580 --> 29:59.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Doesn't it just protect the board?
[29:59.880 --> 30:03.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know, Alex, maybe you would have an insight?
[30:05.260 --> 30:09.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I mean, I think this is, you know, it's an interesting development for Parler.
[30:09.820 --> 30:16.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, you know, the CEO making these statements going, you know, over and over again, he had nothing to do with this decision.
[30:16.380 --> 30:17.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, of course not.
[30:17.480 --> 30:18.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: You got fired.
[30:18.340 --> 30:19.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: The board fired you.
[30:19.360 --> 30:21.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: You worked for the board as a CEO.
[30:21.760 --> 30:23.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, that's the way it goes.
[30:23.920 --> 30:26.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Frankly, I'm surprised at two things.
[30:26.700 --> 30:28.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Number one, that they didn't fire him sooner.
[30:29.520 --> 30:40.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: And in fact, immediately after the insurrection that a lot of this chatter had supposedly sparked on January 6th or on or around January 6th.
[30:40.520 --> 30:43.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: And number two, why he didn't resign.
[30:43.760 --> 30:59.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, it would have been a much more dignified exit for somebody who had been fighting these battles over content moderation, over free speech, saying he spent countless hours working with the board, and then he suffered this really embarrassing issue.
[30:59.260 --> 31:05.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, look, the buck has to stop somewhere, and, you know, sometimes you know what rolls uphill, as it should.
[31:05.480 --> 31:22.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: And what happened with these Internet archivists, the open-source investigators, having the ability to completely snapshot Parler, as there was this cascading failure of security features, first with Twilio, and then, you know, Amazon AWS about to take them offline,
[31:22.940 --> 31:38.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: they had no authentication in place, they had this idiotic or this sort of monument to stupidity system whereby every single post was iterated by the number one, meaning that all you had to do is increment by one, like the name, the number of the thread or the number of the posts,
[31:38.860 --> 31:39.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: so that you could archive everything.
[31:40.260 --> 31:40.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[31:40.380 --> 31:49.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: All of these are gigantic failures for a CEO running what is ostensibly a security-focused and privacy-focused free speech platform.
[31:50.040 --> 31:52.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: That would have been a failure back in the 1980s.
[31:52.440 --> 31:53.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: That would have been a failure back then.
[31:53.660 --> 31:57.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, in 2020, to have that kind of failure, it's unforgivable.
[31:57.760 --> 32:03.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, they were off to the races, they had their growth, and so why scrutinize it?
[32:03.080 --> 32:04.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Who's going to look?
[32:04.360 --> 32:05.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it turns out...
[32:05.380 --> 32:06.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're all going to look.
[32:06.140 --> 32:08.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: When things go wrong, it matters.
[32:08.760 --> 32:27.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you know, before we move on, if I could make one further point to bounce off something Gila had mentioned earlier, and I think it also goes to your question and endpoint as well, Kyle, is if you look at Parler now as it stands, and I just looked at all of the DNS data for this particular site,
[32:27.640 --> 32:32.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: and it's something I've been watching for several weeks now as they were taken offline and tried to find a new host.
[32:32.940 --> 32:37.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: So we'll get a little bit technical here for those who like the technical talk on our show.
[32:37.680 --> 32:47.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you look at the host right now, the host, the IP address of Parler.com, it's a company by the name of DDoS Guard Corporation.
[32:47.020 --> 32:50.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: The IP address is 190.115.31.151.
[32:51.620 --> 32:55.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's an IP address that's located in, guess.
[32:56.960 --> 32:57.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Turkmenistan.
[32:57.840 --> 32:58.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Take a guess.
[32:59.320 --> 32:59.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, close.
[33:00.100 --> 33:00.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Tajikistan.
[33:01.120 --> 33:02.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wait, wait, what'd you say?
[33:02.200 --> 33:04.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, Belize.
[33:04.320 --> 33:04.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Belize.
[33:04.840 --> 33:05.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's located in Belize.
[33:05.960 --> 33:11.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: But this company, DDoS Guard, which is the host, owns that IP address and assigned it to Parler.
[33:12.360 --> 33:14.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: DDoS Guard is a really interesting animal.
[33:14.900 --> 33:15.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's rather curious.
[33:15.960 --> 33:23.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's actually, it's a host platform that operates very similar to Cloudflare in that it's a content distribution network.
[33:23.800 --> 33:25.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: It prevents you from being DDoSed, right?
[33:25.640 --> 33:28.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: from suffering a distributed denial-of-service attack.
[33:28.580 --> 33:39.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: But it's rather strange because it's a hosting platform with an address in Edinburgh, in Scotland, and it has telephone numbers that ring to Russia and ring to the Netherlands.
[33:39.940 --> 33:45.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: As we mentioned, the IP address that DDoS Guard assigned is actually located in Belize.
[33:45.820 --> 33:56.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: The abuse contact details for that IP address actually relate to a physical location in Ecuador and an email address in Russia.
[33:57.320 --> 34:03.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: DDoS Guard itself has two languages on its website, Russian and English.
[34:03.680 --> 34:11.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the domain name registration for DDoS Guard's site actually links back to Russia as well.
[34:11.260 --> 34:16.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was created in 2011 with the Russian domain name registrar, reg.ru.
[34:16.760 --> 34:21.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: So another rather curious decision was made by Parler.
[34:21.820 --> 34:22.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, boy.
[34:22.420 --> 34:37.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Probably because they couldn't find anybody else to pick up the tab for their services or anybody to even treat them as a client that would take their money after the insurrection that happened, that they went with this company that's located in Russia.
[34:37.980 --> 34:40.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, that raises so many problems, so many issues.
[34:41.180 --> 34:45.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, obviously, the connection to Russia is a big red flag.
[34:45.280 --> 34:46.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, no pun intended.
[34:46.900 --> 34:48.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: I know somebody was going to mention that.
[34:49.240 --> 34:49.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Emmanuel.
[34:49.980 --> 34:51.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know they're not communist anymore.
[34:52.420 --> 34:53.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: So the red thing doesn't work anymore.
[34:53.960 --> 34:54.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, but they still do.
[34:54.820 --> 34:55.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it's red, white, and blue.
[34:55.940 --> 34:57.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: They still have an affinity for red.
[34:57.160 --> 34:58.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, their flag is red, white, and blue.
[34:58.640 --> 34:59.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: So there you go.
[34:59.680 --> 35:00.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Rob, go ahead.
[35:00.280 --> 35:00.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's true.
[35:00.720 --> 35:05.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, like their word for beautiful, krasivya, it comes from their word krasny.
[35:05.300 --> 35:05.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[35:05.720 --> 35:06.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: No time for Russian lessons.
[35:06.960 --> 35:07.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Rob, go ahead.
[35:08.460 --> 35:11.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: And we just got to shout out again, the excellent work by Duncan B.
[35:11.840 --> 35:19.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you go to twitter.com slash d-o-n-k underscore e-n-b-y, her display name is Crash Override, which we also appreciate.
[35:19.880 --> 35:22.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: But this project is ongoing.
[35:22.240 --> 35:33.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: And even now as we speak, she's continuing to post archived information that people were making available that is just what the insurrectionists were willingly putting out there during all this.
[35:33.760 --> 35:35.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: And it's a mess, and it's fascinating.
[35:35.760 --> 35:37.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: And if you haven't checked it out, you have to have a look.
[35:38.080 --> 35:43.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: I want to thank people who have been combing through our archives and telling us interesting things.
[35:43.360 --> 35:51.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: We had one listener who told us some Donald Trump references that were made on a different radio show back in 1991.
[35:52.180 --> 35:58.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: I just want to play an excerpt from that, because I found this really kind of interesting and a bit funny.
[35:58.900 --> 35:59.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Take a listen.
[36:00.200 --> 36:00.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: What?
[36:00.520 --> 36:00.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: More Miss...
[36:00.940 --> 36:01.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[36:01.580 --> 36:01.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[36:01.800 --> 36:02.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: We got another Miss America.
[36:02.840 --> 36:04.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we'll try the number one more time.
[36:06.440 --> 36:07.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Donald Trump.
[36:07.460 --> 36:07.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, okay.
[36:07.980 --> 36:08.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wait.
[36:08.100 --> 36:09.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: You want to talk about Donald Trump?
[36:09.560 --> 36:12.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Did you see the piece in the newspaper today about Donald Trump?
[36:13.100 --> 36:14.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's disgusting.
[36:14.620 --> 36:16.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Donald Trump was seen in Kmart.
[36:17.100 --> 36:21.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: He was seen shopping in Kmart with his wife, Ivana.
[36:22.240 --> 36:22.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay?
[36:22.900 --> 36:23.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who cares?
[36:23.720 --> 36:27.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who cares the fact that he's in Kmart with his wife shopping for his stupid kid?
[36:27.740 --> 36:28.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't care.
[36:29.500 --> 36:31.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Listen to this article on Newsday.
[36:31.020 --> 36:37.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: We knew times were bad, but really, darlings, and they spell it the stupid way, we had no idea they were this bad.
[36:37.520 --> 36:45.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, that stricken-looking couple is Donald Trump, erstwhile billionaire, and ex-wife Ivana shopping at a Kmart in Sanatoga, Pennsylvania.
[36:45.540 --> 36:46.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: How humiliating.
[36:47.280 --> 36:49.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's been a hard year for the Donald.
[36:49.480 --> 36:51.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: First, there is the divorce.
[36:51.780 --> 36:55.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Then, he had to give up the 282-foot yacht.
[36:56.360 --> 36:58.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Then he put the Taj Mahal into bankruptcy court.
[36:59.060 --> 37:00.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: And now he's hitting the bargain basement.
[37:00.920 --> 37:05.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Next, we suppose that Martha Stewart will be wielding her hot glue gun at the plaza.
[37:06.980 --> 37:10.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: The Trumps, according to a spokesperson, are not broke.
[37:10.100 --> 37:16.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: They were just shopping for back-to-school supplies for their son, Donald Jr., 14, known to Intimates as Donnie.
[37:18.380 --> 37:19.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Excuse me.
[37:19.600 --> 37:32.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: It seems that Donnie is attending the Hill School, an exclusive boarding school in nearby Pottstown, which boasts alums the likes of Secretary of State James Baker, movie director Oliver Stone, and the son of World War II General George Patton.
[37:33.640 --> 37:40.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: The Trumps drove him to school this week and stopped by Kmart on Wednesday to pick up the normal things that a child needs when he's starting school.
[37:41.960 --> 37:50.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Onlookers say the doting parents emerged, pushing two shopping carts full of, among other things, sheets, comforters, shampoo, pencils, and a house plant.
[37:51.200 --> 37:52.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Nothing fancy.
[37:52.220 --> 38:00.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: The plant was, according to photographer John Strickler of the Pottstown Mercury, just a little plant and a little thing.
[38:00.180 --> 38:00.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, just a plant.
[38:01.640 --> 38:02.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's a quote.
[38:03.340 --> 38:08.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Strickler said he staked out the Kmart parking lot after getting a call from a tipster, one of our subscribers.
[38:09.260 --> 38:11.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Small towns are like that, but I never expected to find him.
[38:14.900 --> 38:20.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: And yet another folksy touch, the Trumps personally loaded the stuff into the trunk of their dark blue Mercedes.
[38:25.840 --> 38:28.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mary, they really went into detail on this.
[38:28.260 --> 38:36.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mary Harakza, assistant store manager at the Kmart, said the Trumps shopped alone and were not accorded any special treatment.
[38:36.980 --> 38:43.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Harakza declined to say how much they spent, but she did say that Donald tried to pay by American Express and was politely turned down.
[38:44.260 --> 38:47.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: We don't take American Express at this particular Kmart.
[38:47.700 --> 38:49.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: And so he paid cash.
[38:51.100 --> 38:52.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: What page do you think that was on, folks?
[38:52.800 --> 38:57.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's 43, 57, 122, page 3.
[38:57.320 --> 38:58.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Page 3 of Newsday.
[38:59.120 --> 39:00.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hang your head in shame.
[39:02.600 --> 39:05.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Justice Thomas was on page 7 or something like that.
[39:07.360 --> 39:08.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Ah, yes.
[39:09.360 --> 39:13.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Donald Trump took ex-wife Ivana to Kmart, but this makes the AP, too.
[39:14.900 --> 39:18.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: But took fiancée Marla Maples to the Miss America pageant.
[39:18.340 --> 39:27.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: The couple had front row seats for the Miss America pageant in Atlantic City last night and appeared early in the national broadcast with hosts Reggie Philbin and Kathy Lee Gifford.
[39:28.200 --> 39:33.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Gifford noted that the couple announced their engagement on the host television show live with Reggie and Kathy Lee.
[39:34.040 --> 39:34.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who cares?
[39:36.740 --> 39:42.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: At one point, Philbin pressed cash in Trump's hand, insisting that the owner of three casinos here stopped bugging him.
[39:43.360 --> 39:45.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Trump and Maples smiled but didn't speak.
[39:45.780 --> 39:48.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Trump was a judge for the pageant's finals two years ago.
[39:48.940 --> 39:52.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then they go into a story about the Kmart incident.
[39:54.420 --> 39:54.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Unbelievable.
[39:55.260 --> 39:57.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Unbelievable what the priorities here are.
[39:57.980 --> 39:59.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, we're going to try Nazis again.
[40:00.340 --> 40:02.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: See if we bought enough time there.
[40:05.180 --> 40:06.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Dialing for Nazis on brain damage.
[40:08.200 --> 40:09.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, boy.
[40:09.660 --> 40:09.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[40:10.980 --> 40:12.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: That was the name of the show, Brain Damage.
[40:12.960 --> 40:21.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I love how even back in 1991, the logical segue after talking about Donald Trump is to see what the Nazis are up to.
[40:23.460 --> 40:23.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[40:24.300 --> 40:27.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks to the listener who brought that to our attention.
[40:27.480 --> 40:33.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: And yes, all of our radio shows can be found in the radio section of 2600.com.
[40:33.320 --> 40:36.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, and exciting news, we're going to have a lot more audio being posted this year.
[40:36.900 --> 40:40.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: We found a treasure trove of old material that we're processing right now.
[40:40.900 --> 40:44.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Along with the voicemail segments, which at a later date...
[40:44.040 --> 40:44.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're working on that, too.
[40:44.900 --> 40:45.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're working on that, too.
[40:45.800 --> 40:46.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Exactly.
[40:46.100 --> 40:47.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: More to share about those recordings as well.
[40:47.780 --> 40:52.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: But that particular excerpt from the September 15, 1991 show, what did you guys think of that?
[40:53.960 --> 41:02.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, my thought on it immediately was that, you know, your penchant for complaining has only increased in 30 years here.
[41:02.120 --> 41:07.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, I feel like you've gotten better and better at complaining, you know, over time.
[41:07.340 --> 41:08.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that was a different radio station.
[41:08.620 --> 41:12.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: That was a different radio station, but the complaining pretty much follows me wherever I go.
[41:12.260 --> 41:12.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, yeah.
[41:13.600 --> 41:13.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[41:14.480 --> 41:15.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: I thought it was great.
[41:15.480 --> 41:15.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Rob?
[41:16.640 --> 41:25.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: My thought is, I know I had a couple of friends who were writing for Newsday back around that time, and I think I want to call them and ask them what the deal was with this.
[41:25.400 --> 41:26.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I think maybe you should.
[41:26.500 --> 41:26.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe you should.
[41:26.960 --> 41:44.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, sticking to that topic somewhat, a website belonging to the Patriotic Brigade Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, an organization affiliated with the white supremacist clan, I guess, was hacked by an anti-fascist Israeli organization exposing pictures, names,
[41:44.720 --> 41:48.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: and personal information of many of the organization's members.
[41:48.940 --> 41:57.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: While the website originally consisted of white supremacist imagery as well as a link to join them, the hack completely altered the entirety of the webpage.
[41:58.120 --> 42:11.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: In an exclusive statement to the Jerusalem Post, the hackers identified themselves as an anti-fascist collective by the name Hayalim Almanem, which is Hebrew for anonymous soldiers.
[42:12.100 --> 42:12.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[42:12.980 --> 42:13.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[42:13.480 --> 42:14.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's pretty awesome.
[42:14.720 --> 42:15.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Our objective...
[42:16.080 --> 42:17.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: I love this quote here.
[42:17.340 --> 42:22.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Our objective is to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies of humanity.
[42:23.700 --> 42:24.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm putting that on my wall.
[42:25.380 --> 42:29.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Neo-Nazi and other White supremacist groups believe that jews have an all-seeing eye.
[42:29.360 --> 42:35.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Our desire is to make their fantasies a reality and exploit their conspiracy theories as a form of psychological warfare.
[42:35.820 --> 42:41.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: We want them to know, wherever they are in the world, that we will find them and expose them.
[42:41.240 --> 42:46.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: We will destroy their lives and we will bathe in their tears and mock at the gnashing of their teeth.
[42:46.500 --> 42:49.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: There is nowhere that is beyond our reach.
[42:50.940 --> 42:56.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: The hack also revealed the supposed leader of the Patriotic Brigade, a Texas resident named Kevin James Smith.
[42:57.940 --> 42:58.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: This included...
[42:58.820 --> 43:00.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: He's not the one that made the films, right?
[43:00.460 --> 43:01.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, I don't think it's the same one.
[43:01.520 --> 43:05.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: This included Smith's face, address, phone number, date of birth, both email addresses.
[43:06.040 --> 43:06.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Both?
[43:06.540 --> 43:06.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: He has two.
[43:07.060 --> 43:07.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[43:07.560 --> 43:16.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Proof he paid to operate the website and a link to his page on the Texas Public Sex Offender Registry, where he has a very prominent entry, apparently.
[43:16.880 --> 43:33.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: The organization will also be giving updates of their activities via the Twitter account Justice underscore Jew, which told the Jerusalem Post it was acting as an information relay for Hialem Almanen to draw attention to their activities and find operatives on location.
[43:34.740 --> 43:39.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: And further updates will be given on their website, JewishAntifa.com.
[43:40.040 --> 43:42.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's right, JewishAntifa.com.
[43:42.960 --> 43:43.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: I love it.
[43:45.700 --> 43:47.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Stories like that give me a little bit of inspiration.
[43:50.000 --> 43:52.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Gila, how was his pronunciation there?
[43:53.440 --> 43:55.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm sorry about the wincing, guys.
[43:58.000 --> 43:58.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hialem Almanen.
[43:59.400 --> 44:00.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, all right.
[44:00.460 --> 44:01.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Fair enough.
[44:01.400 --> 44:04.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Look, I couldn't figure out how to pronounce Regis, apparently, in 1991.
[44:04.940 --> 44:06.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, Reggie, Reggie Kilden?
[44:06.500 --> 44:09.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I guess he wasn't a star then, at least not in my world.
[44:09.420 --> 44:11.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: New York treasure, Reggie Kilden?
[44:12.680 --> 44:16.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, the WBAI engineer, let him know.
[44:16.320 --> 44:21.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: 30 years from now, people will be laughing at the way we pronounce things, I'm sure of that, maybe 30 minutes from now.
[44:22.580 --> 44:29.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, 30 minutes from now, you can laugh to our faces by tuning in to our YouTube channel, Channel2600, and joining us on Off The Hook Overtime.
[44:30.240 --> 44:34.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Again, the phone number, 802-321-4225-802-321-HACK.
[44:34.980 --> 44:40.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: And no, we're not in Vermont, it's just a Vermont area code that we happen to get to make the number spell something cool.
[44:42.240 --> 44:49.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, there was a bit of panic, I guess, when Facebook signed everybody out the other Friday.
[44:50.200 --> 44:57.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: People were thinking they were getting hacked, that their information was being stolen, that privacy settings were being reset.
[45:00.220 --> 45:01.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: People were prompted to log back in.
[45:02.140 --> 45:05.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm surprised that people stay logged into Facebook, but I guess that's what most people do.
[45:06.520 --> 45:12.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: I make a point of not being on Facebook, and just logging in when I need to check something, and then logging the hell out as quickly as I can.
[45:13.460 --> 45:18.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: But apparently, a couple of weeks ago, the end of January, everyone's Facebook account was...
[45:18.860 --> 45:21.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: everyone got booted, and they had to log back in.
[45:22.460 --> 45:24.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this is what they worry about.
[45:24.640 --> 45:26.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: What, you're still logged in from all that period of time?
[45:27.640 --> 45:28.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[45:28.560 --> 45:28.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[45:29.480 --> 45:31.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Is this on the website or on the app?
[45:31.480 --> 45:31.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Both.
[45:32.500 --> 45:33.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: I did not get logged out.
[45:34.160 --> 45:35.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, apparently, you're the queen of Facebook.
[45:35.660 --> 45:36.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Apparently, I am.
[45:36.640 --> 45:37.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's good to know.
[45:37.540 --> 45:38.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I guess...
[45:38.240 --> 45:38.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because I think you're the king of Facebook.
[45:39.020 --> 45:44.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: As to the conspiracy, then, that this only happened to some people and not others.
[45:44.360 --> 45:44.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ooh.
[45:44.940 --> 45:47.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, okay, but this is something that we can't deny.
[45:48.940 --> 45:53.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Apparently, 84% of people post on social media every week.
[45:53.920 --> 45:54.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is that true?
[45:55.760 --> 45:56.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, wait, hold on a second.
[45:56.880 --> 45:57.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, this is...
[45:58.060 --> 45:58.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry.
[45:58.720 --> 46:00.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: I should have read the first part.
[46:00.420 --> 46:05.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is part of a survey of 4,000 professionals in the UK and the US.
[46:05.780 --> 46:17.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they found that 84% of them post on social media every week, with two-fifths, 42% posting every day, openly sharing huge amounts of information about their hobbies, interests, relationships, and locations.
[46:17.920 --> 46:21.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Half share the names and pictures of their children.
[46:21.220 --> 46:31.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: Almost three-quarters mention birthday celebrations, unknowingly giving away information that helps hackers and criminals, too, by the way, launch a successful social engineering or account takeover attack.
[46:32.400 --> 46:36.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not helped by the fact that 55% of people surveyed have public profiles on Facebook.
[46:36.580 --> 46:39.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just 33% have set their Instagram accounts to private.
[46:40.060 --> 46:47.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: An overwhelming 93% of workers also update their job status on social media, while 36% share information about their job.
[46:47.540 --> 46:56.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: And while these posts may seem harmless, hackers and criminals will use this information to select their targets and method of attack.
[46:57.640 --> 46:59.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's common sense.
[46:59.140 --> 46:59.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: It really is.
[47:00.400 --> 47:20.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: And basically, those out-of-office messages that you put on when you go on vacation, they give out information on how long you're going to be away, how long you're not going to be minding the store, not home, not at your desk, and all kinds of possibilities for social engineering and basically identity theft and other things are quite possible.
[47:21.160 --> 47:25.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Alex, I'm going to give you the last word because we are almost out of time, but we're back at 8 o'clock on overtime.
[47:25.280 --> 47:25.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[47:25.700 --> 47:30.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: On both of those stories, you know, they're really two sides of the same coin.
[47:30.920 --> 47:39.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: The latter story that you mentioned, people oversharing intimate details, hobbies, things like that, social media, they give rise to a security issue is one thing, right?
[47:39.200 --> 47:47.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the ironic thing is those very same people were the ones that were probably so incredibly skeptical that their Facebook login session had ended and they needed to re-log in.
[47:48.040 --> 47:59.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: But on the other hand, the fact that they were skeptical, that they were concerned, and they did, you know, suspect that maybe this was some kind of phishing attempt or a credentials harvesting attempt means that people are thinking more.
[47:59.740 --> 48:00.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're thinking about cybersecurity.
[48:01.260 --> 48:02.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're doing our job.
[48:02.440 --> 48:03.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're getting the word out there.
[48:03.440 --> 48:04.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: I see that as actually a good thing.
[48:05.580 --> 48:06.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[48:06.520 --> 48:13.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hey, write to us, oth@2600.com, and tell us what you think of the show.
[48:13.220 --> 48:17.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Any information you want to share with us, please feel free to send that on in.
[48:17.620 --> 48:18.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: We were preempted last week.
[48:18.860 --> 48:23.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: We weren't expecting to be preempted last week, but as a result of that, we won't be preempted as scheduled later in February.
[48:23.880 --> 48:26.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: So we'll be on for a good period of time now.
[48:27.780 --> 48:33.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we will be on in a couple of minutes, 8 o'clock, on youtube.com/Channel2600.
[48:34.280 --> 48:39.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you can call in at 802-321-4225 during that period of time.
[48:39.680 --> 48:42.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Otherwise, we will see you next week, 7 p.m.
[48:42.700 --> 48:43.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: here on WBAI.
[48:44.080 --> 48:44.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good night.
[49:12.670 --> 49:15.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, here we are on Overtime.
[49:15.530 --> 49:18.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Did everybody make it smoothly?
[49:19.310 --> 49:19.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Kyle, you there?
[49:20.770 --> 49:21.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[49:21.570 --> 49:22.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, good.
[49:25.170 --> 49:26.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: And Alex, I see you.
[49:28.030 --> 49:30.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: I still have some whiplash from that transition.
[49:31.090 --> 49:31.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was a little harsh this time.
[49:32.270 --> 49:32.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[49:33.350 --> 49:34.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: And Rob and Gila, you there?
[49:35.850 --> 49:36.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: We are here.
[49:37.550 --> 49:41.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, I'm not sure this is working because I'm seeing numbers of zero for viewers.
[49:41.550 --> 49:43.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I know that we're public.
[49:44.070 --> 49:44.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a public thing.
[49:47.450 --> 49:49.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Can you guys verify that we are actually on YouTube?
[49:50.190 --> 49:50.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Can somebody check?
[49:51.030 --> 49:51.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: We are.
[49:51.690 --> 49:52.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[49:52.370 --> 49:54.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: So maybe we just don't have anybody watching.
[49:54.990 --> 49:55.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not really sure.
[49:56.190 --> 49:59.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: But again, the phone number is 802-321-4225.
[50:01.290 --> 50:04.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Again, sorry about the rough start to the actual radio show.
[50:04.370 --> 50:06.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Kyle, I believe you wanted to take credit for that.
[50:06.310 --> 50:07.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is that what you were telling me before?
[50:08.530 --> 50:14.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, I wasn't really ready and basically forgot to turn on the Wi-Fi for something.
[50:14.490 --> 50:14.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[50:15.610 --> 50:16.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, all right.
[50:16.310 --> 50:16.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's fine.
[50:16.850 --> 50:17.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's fine.
[50:17.270 --> 50:28.690]  [SPEAKER_13]: But then, but then, but then, uh, after restarting some of the software and doing a bunch of that troubleshooting, it seemed like it was the station that was having trouble.
[50:29.330 --> 50:32.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: But, uh, I just kept doing that.
[50:32.810 --> 50:37.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: And eventually it was blaring, uh, in our engineers' ears.
[50:37.490 --> 50:38.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, something is wrong here.
[50:38.930 --> 50:42.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: I can just tell because usually our numbers are much higher than this.
[50:42.530 --> 50:47.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: And now, Rob, if you're, if you're, if you're connecting, you're the one that I'm seeing.
[50:47.870 --> 50:49.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: And now it's, now it's two.
[50:49.310 --> 50:49.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, great.
[50:49.690 --> 50:52.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: But usually it's, it's like, you know, 60 or 70.
[50:52.210 --> 50:52.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's updated now.
[50:52.810 --> 50:53.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: So what happened?
[50:53.370 --> 50:55.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know if your numbers are, uh, lagging or something.
[50:55.770 --> 50:56.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, something's not right.
[50:57.050 --> 50:57.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm, don't pay attention.
[50:57.890 --> 50:58.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I'm looking at the, uh, YouTube screen.
[50:58.970 --> 50:59.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: Don't pay attention.
[50:59.750 --> 51:00.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: It says 26 watching now, so.
[51:01.030 --> 51:01.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[51:01.650 --> 51:02.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: But there should be more than that.
[51:02.810 --> 51:10.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: And also, you know, we need, we need people to know how to use YouTube better than we do because, uh, apparently nobody can see this until it goes live.
[51:10.610 --> 51:14.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: We need for it to be seen before it goes live so people know about it before it actually starts happening.
[51:15.110 --> 51:17.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, oth@2600.com.
[51:18.070 --> 51:18.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's our email address.
[51:19.750 --> 51:27.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, and help us out with these things and various social media and, uh, uh, podcast issues that we, uh, are constantly, uh.
[51:27.290 --> 51:28.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: We don't want to be YouTube experts.
[51:28.990 --> 51:29.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: We just want to be competent.
[51:30.090 --> 51:30.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, we want to get it right.
[51:30.930 --> 51:33.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we don't have to waste a lot of time, uh, thinking about it ourselves.
[51:33.870 --> 51:34.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: That, that seems fair.
[51:35.590 --> 51:37.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, what do you have there, Alex?
[51:40.390 --> 51:43.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: You made a great, this, the show of holding it up.
[51:43.310 --> 51:46.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: You asked me a question as you see me putting the drink to my lips.
[51:46.490 --> 51:49.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, why did you make a big display if you didn't want me to call attention to it?
[51:50.250 --> 51:51.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was just saying cheers.
[51:51.670 --> 51:52.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's all.
[51:52.190 --> 51:52.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's all.
[51:52.830 --> 51:55.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm, I'm having a, uh, Cronenberg actually.
[51:55.530 --> 51:57.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, uh, French beer.
[51:57.890 --> 51:58.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, yeah.
[51:58.590 --> 51:59.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, that's a good Pilsner.
[51:59.730 --> 52:00.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's, that's nice, right?
[52:00.990 --> 52:01.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's a good beer.
[52:01.750 --> 52:03.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it's, uh, you know, it's Wednesday.
[52:03.950 --> 52:04.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's after eight o'clock.
[52:05.110 --> 52:06.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, you know, what the hell?
[52:06.970 --> 52:07.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, exactly.
[52:08.230 --> 52:09.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, now Kyle, did you plug the phone back in?
[52:10.190 --> 52:10.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: You didn't, did you?
[52:10.930 --> 52:11.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, it's set.
[52:11.550 --> 52:12.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, okay.
[52:12.250 --> 52:13.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, uh, our phone number is open.
[52:14.010 --> 52:16.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Eight, zero, two, three, two, one, four, two, two, five.
[52:16.250 --> 52:20.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: If there's something you as a listener want to complain about or talk to us about, this is your opportunity.
[52:20.570 --> 52:24.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is why this, this particular part of the show exists so that you can have your say.
[52:24.590 --> 52:25.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: We can't do this.
[52:25.370 --> 52:27.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: You saw the trouble we had just getting on the air.
[52:27.750 --> 52:32.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Imagine the trouble of dealing with calls at a remote studio that are on delay.
[52:32.750 --> 52:37.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, it would just be, uh, way too much for, I think, anybody to handle.
[52:37.410 --> 52:38.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, uh, that's...
[52:38.190 --> 52:46.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, don't build it up too much yet because when they connect, we may have to, uh, adjust some of the chewing gum and the tape that's holding everything together.
[52:46.330 --> 52:48.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why can't this just stay the way it is?
[52:48.110 --> 52:49.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's been a couple weeks.
[52:49.490 --> 52:51.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: We might have had some jostling.
[52:51.350 --> 52:52.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: There may have been, uh...
[52:52.590 --> 52:53.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, we have our first call.
[52:53.610 --> 52:54.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have a phone call.
[52:54.450 --> 52:54.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: But you...
[52:54.870 --> 53:00.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think you still have to pick up the phone and press one because for some reason Google makes us do that and we should look into that as well.
[53:01.150 --> 53:02.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, is there a caller on the line?
[53:03.930 --> 53:05.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, yeah, I'm on the line.
[53:05.530 --> 53:05.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Great.
[53:06.030 --> 53:06.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: How are you doing?
[53:07.410 --> 53:07.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[53:08.050 --> 53:20.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, I was curious to know, uh, what, uh, brand phone, uh, Rob has since he said, uh, he switched away from Samsung because I know they're the, the 800 pound gorilla in the, uh, cell phone market.
[53:20.510 --> 53:22.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: So I was curious to know what phone he uses.
[53:22.690 --> 53:24.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, Rob, tell us all about your phone.
[53:24.170 --> 53:26.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: What kind of phone it is and, uh, all the, all the details.
[53:27.770 --> 53:42.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, my, my, my phone is, uh, a Motorola phone and, uh, I, I got it, uh, I want to say three, four years ago, um, because at the time it seemed like Motorola was actually opening up their, uh, their attitudes toward people repairing their own phones and,
[53:42.970 --> 53:51.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: uh, things like, uh, right to repair and making a phone that you can take apart if you're expert enough and, uh, and, uh, uh, put together yourself.
[53:52.170 --> 53:53.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, um, I went with them.
[53:54.090 --> 53:54.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's a Motorola phone.
[53:55.670 --> 53:56.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.
[53:56.910 --> 53:57.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's good to know.
[53:58.190 --> 53:59.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, just one other question.
[54:00.310 --> 54:05.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, the photo on the YouTube page, uh, where exactly was that taken?
[54:05.570 --> 54:09.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm glad somebody, I'm glad somebody finally asked about that.
[54:10.210 --> 54:12.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, I don't know where that was taken.
[54:13.050 --> 54:15.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Obviously somewhere in Europe, that's a mailbox.
[54:15.310 --> 54:19.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a green mailbox, uh, and maybe this is something our, our listeners can help us with.
[54:19.610 --> 54:21.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Where are their green mailboxes?
[54:21.410 --> 54:24.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: What part of Europe, uh, has, has that particular custom?
[54:25.330 --> 54:27.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, it literally was a arresting image.
[54:28.110 --> 54:28.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: It is.
[54:28.570 --> 54:28.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[54:29.030 --> 54:41.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, it's a picture I took, uh, when we were scrambling for the first edition of Overtime, we needed an image and I just jumped into the first directory I found, which happened to be pictures I took while traveling once and grabbed that one.
[54:41.370 --> 54:43.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's, that's literally the story behind it.
[54:43.130 --> 54:47.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, so now it's up to the listeners to tell us the rest of the story behind that.
[54:48.070 --> 54:48.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[54:48.390 --> 54:52.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I look forward to getting an answer from one of your, uh, intrepid listeners.
[54:52.570 --> 54:52.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks.
[54:52.790 --> 54:54.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: And may we ask where you are calling from?
[54:55.050 --> 54:57.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, calling from, uh, Nassau County.
[54:57.450 --> 54:57.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[54:57.910 --> 54:58.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Nassau County.
[54:59.050 --> 55:00.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: How much snow did you guys get?
[55:01.530 --> 55:03.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, about 15 inches.
[55:03.290 --> 55:03.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Awesome.
[55:03.910 --> 55:04.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[55:04.370 --> 55:05.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: Still digging out.
[55:05.490 --> 55:05.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[55:05.930 --> 55:06.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[55:06.230 --> 55:06.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: We all are.
[55:07.010 --> 55:07.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[55:07.450 --> 55:08.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for your call.
[55:08.730 --> 55:09.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[55:09.110 --> 55:09.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Have a great night.
[55:09.830 --> 55:10.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: You too.
[55:10.810 --> 55:25.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Again, our phone number, 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK to talk to the folks at Off The Hook while, uh, while we, uh, decompress from, from the radio show.
[55:25.410 --> 55:27.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: Phones are lasting a little bit longer.
[55:27.290 --> 55:30.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, unless you need, like, the, the best features ever.
[55:30.910 --> 55:34.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I think this is true with, with laptops and, and other machines.
[55:34.870 --> 55:44.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, you might have noticed that you don't need all of the latest, uh, processor speeds unless you're doing, um, something particular.
[55:45.030 --> 55:53.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: Most people can get by with, with refurbishing something or, or taking something that, um, maybe needed some components, a little more RAM.
[55:53.790 --> 56:02.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, um, and you can do amazing stuff with some of the contemporary hardware that's even half a dozen years old and, uh, not for very much money either.
[56:03.090 --> 56:10.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I, I've noticed this with phones too, uh, the ones that are harder to repair, but, and this has come up with right to repair conversations as well.
[56:10.310 --> 56:14.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: There's cottage industries for cracked screens, as Alex was talking about.
[56:14.670 --> 56:19.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, I watch, I've been watching someone who actually works for Apple, um, on social media.
[56:19.750 --> 56:31.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, she fixes phones and it's really interesting to see, um, how you have to heat and remove processors and the steps involved with repairing circuits.
[56:32.030 --> 56:33.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's, it's really fascinating stuff.
[56:33.770 --> 56:47.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: So there's a lot of people working on this so that people who are, you know, um, not interested in upgrading their phone and, but willing to spend a couple hundred bucks on it or 50 bucks for a screen or something cheap that will just keep it going longer.
[56:47.570 --> 56:55.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: Or it's, it's, it's perfectly worthwhile to repair it instead of, of upgrading just for, um, features.
[56:55.390 --> 56:57.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: 802-321-4225.
[56:57.230 --> 56:57.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, Rob.
[56:58.670 --> 57:01.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, yeah, there is a site called iFixit.
[57:01.230 --> 57:10.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, it's iFixit.com and, uh, they host a really good, uh, community, community created, uh, guides and teardowns and things like that to repair all sorts of devices.
[57:10.810 --> 57:15.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: And Motorola actually, uh, went, went to work with them for a bit.
[57:15.070 --> 57:17.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: So there were some really good guides on the Motorola phones.
[57:17.150 --> 57:25.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: So what I did was I went on iFixit.com slash Motorola and, uh, looked there to see what phones they have guides and stuff available for and made my selection that way.
[57:25.850 --> 57:27.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have a caller on the line.
[57:27.530 --> 57:28.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, caller.
[57:29.150 --> 57:30.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, is that me?
[57:30.370 --> 57:30.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's you.
[57:30.990 --> 57:31.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Great.
[57:31.590 --> 57:32.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[57:32.130 --> 57:32.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hi.
[57:32.650 --> 57:48.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, I'm just wondering if no one's speculating why the writers, um, since they are terrorists, why they haven't been, um, uh, talking about them going to, uh, Gitmo and, uh, sending them off there?
[57:48.610 --> 57:53.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, um, I don't know if we send domestic prisoners to Gitmo, do we?
[57:53.710 --> 57:55.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: The sticky thing of the U.S. citizenship might be partly why that's not, um, one of the first options they're going with.
[58:01.010 --> 58:02.690]  [SPEAKER_13]: But it's a good, it's a good question.
[58:02.810 --> 58:09.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's a quandary because really what, what is the distinction other than that with a domestic or international terrorism case?
[58:09.490 --> 58:12.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, you know, for the record, I don't think anybody should be sent to Gitmo.
[58:12.430 --> 58:14.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think we should be closing that place down and giving it back to Cuba.
[58:14.850 --> 58:15.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[58:15.270 --> 58:15.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[58:15.710 --> 58:15.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[58:15.930 --> 58:20.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: But since they are, uh, they're keeping people there for God knows how many years now.
[58:20.650 --> 58:21.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's, it's, it's a valid point.
[58:21.950 --> 58:22.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Alex, I think you have something to say?
[58:24.530 --> 58:24.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[58:25.050 --> 58:27.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, Gitmo was really for, for enemy combatants.
[58:27.850 --> 58:31.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: That was the, um, you know, the, the reason for its existence.
[58:32.210 --> 58:33.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, and look, you know.
[58:33.610 --> 58:36.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, these are enemies and they're, they're combating for sure.
[58:36.970 --> 58:38.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I take your point.
[58:38.190 --> 58:38.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: True.
[58:39.490 --> 58:40.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: Non, non-U.S. citizen enemy combatants.
[58:41.290 --> 58:48.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, it's, it's also, you know, not the exclusive place where we would hold, uh, anybody on terrorism charges.
[58:48.870 --> 58:55.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you think about, you know, there are plenty of, of terrorism charges brought against people in the Southern District of New York and the Eastern District of New York.
[58:55.250 --> 58:58.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they're held in the Metropolitan Detention Center and, and sent to federal prison.
[58:58.590 --> 59:03.190]  [SPEAKER_14]: And so they don't all have to go over to, to Gitmo, but if they were enemy combatants...
[59:03.190 --> 59:06.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, they don't seem to be sending anyone anywhere, except for one guy.
[59:06.650 --> 59:12.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, they are releasing a lot of people on their own recognizance or, you know, for affordable bail or, or, or things like that.
[59:13.030 --> 59:16.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're definitely not treating them the same way they would treat other people for sure.
[59:16.550 --> 59:17.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, Alex.
[59:17.650 --> 59:18.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, that's, that's true.
[59:18.790 --> 59:21.150]  [SPEAKER_14]: But also, you know, let's go back to Gitmo for a second, too.
[59:21.150 --> 59:26.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, let's call people, you know, for things that they, they said they were going to do and not do.
[59:26.730 --> 59:34.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, President Obama campaigned on Gitmo in 2007 and 2008 and claimed that he was going to shut it down.
[59:35.230 --> 59:44.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, but, okay, again, what is it with people wanting to just point and say that somebody didn't fulfill their promise without exploring all the facts?
[59:44.430 --> 59:52.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, people are saying Joe Biden lied about the, the $2,000 when, if you do the math, $1,400 plus the $600 we already got is $2,000.
[59:52.290 --> 59:53.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: He's not lying.
[59:53.170 --> 59:55.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's just, somebody didn't understand math.
[59:55.830 --> 01:00:03.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, but the Obama thing, I take exception to that, too, because he wanted to shut down Gitmo, but Congress got in the way.
[01:00:04.170 --> 01:00:05.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Republicans got in the way.
[01:00:05.710 --> 01:00:07.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: How does he get the blame for that?
[01:00:07.150 --> 01:00:10.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, how do you throw that at someone's feet and just, like, you're dumbfounded?
[01:00:11.150 --> 01:00:15.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: Like, obviously, you understand that there are two other branches of government.
[01:00:15.290 --> 01:00:18.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, if the Republicans had gone along, Gitmo would be shut right now.
[01:00:18.310 --> 01:00:26.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I'm all for shutting it with what we have and maybe taking a, you know, a stronger stance and maybe not even getting cooperation from Republicans.
[01:00:26.490 --> 01:00:31.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Fine, because since they've lowered the bar so much, maybe that's the only way to get things done now.
[01:00:31.210 --> 01:00:34.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I don't doubt his sincerity as far as closing Gitmo.
[01:00:35.010 --> 01:00:37.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: It just was one of the many things he wasn't able to do.
[01:00:38.270 --> 01:00:50.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: Your responses are all premised on this erroneous assumption that politicians don't have to work with the other side of the aisle, and you can just blame the other side.
[01:00:50.590 --> 01:00:52.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: You have to make a convincing argument.
[01:00:52.230 --> 01:00:53.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: And this is about argumentation.
[01:00:53.430 --> 01:00:54.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's about persuasion.
[01:00:54.570 --> 01:00:59.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: We elect people to government because they're supposed to be persuasive representatives of the people.
[01:01:07.470 --> 01:01:10.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think he failed to deliver on because he failed to be persuasive.
[01:01:10.390 --> 01:01:11.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's how I view it.
[01:01:11.750 --> 01:01:15.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I think that we need to hold people accountable to their campaign promises.
[01:01:16.410 --> 01:01:18.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: But look, that's neither here nor there.
[01:01:18.310 --> 01:01:25.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: More importantly, I got an email from a colleague of mine with whom I've worked for a number of years right now.
[01:01:26.330 --> 01:01:32.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: And he believes that the letterbox is actually originating in Ireland, that it was a picture taken in Ireland.
[01:01:32.890 --> 01:01:34.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, that's certainly possible.
[01:01:35.430 --> 01:01:39.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: One way to verify that would be to see what direction the cars are going.
[01:01:40.090 --> 01:01:43.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: I might have to see if there's an expanded view of that picture.
[01:01:44.550 --> 01:01:45.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: But that's a good theory.
[01:01:47.770 --> 01:01:48.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:01:48.310 --> 01:01:49.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: You want me to give the phone number out?
[01:01:49.410 --> 01:01:49.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:01:49.830 --> 01:01:50.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, you can just say that.
[01:01:50.770 --> 01:01:51.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: You don't have to write a picture of the phone.
[01:01:52.570 --> 01:01:55.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: The phone number is 802-321-4225.
[01:01:56.710 --> 01:01:58.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: I wasn't sure if she was still on the phone.
[01:01:58.410 --> 01:01:59.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's why I didn't give the number out.
[01:01:59.850 --> 01:02:01.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Phone line apparently is open.
[01:02:01.330 --> 01:02:02.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, good.
[01:02:02.770 --> 01:02:06.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, so yes, um, what, what else?
[01:02:07.110 --> 01:02:13.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: I just don't think that you can work with people who say, oh yeah, closing that down is off the table.
[01:02:13.630 --> 01:02:14.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's not a negotiation.
[01:02:14.910 --> 01:02:19.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: And being any more convincing with people that say something is off the table, that's, uh, I don't know.
[01:02:19.950 --> 01:02:24.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: I just don't find that as, uh, yeah, I feel constructive as you're making it out to be.
[01:02:24.170 --> 01:02:25.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: I feel like you're greenwolding a little bit here.
[01:02:26.170 --> 01:02:27.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you know what I mean by that?
[01:02:27.670 --> 01:02:30.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, basically you, you, you just attack.
[01:02:30.190 --> 01:02:30.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's a verb?
[01:02:31.050 --> 01:02:31.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: It is now.
[01:02:31.890 --> 01:02:32.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: It is now.
[01:02:32.750 --> 01:02:35.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, he blocked, he, he blocked me for criticizing him.
[01:02:35.870 --> 01:02:37.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, don't get me started on that.
[01:02:37.330 --> 01:02:43.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: But basically, basically, uh, people are so eager to say, aha, the Democrats are, are just as bad.
[01:02:43.730 --> 01:02:45.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, they're not just as bad.
[01:02:45.210 --> 01:02:45.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are they bad?
[01:02:45.730 --> 01:02:45.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[01:02:46.170 --> 01:02:46.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are they politicians?
[01:02:47.170 --> 01:02:47.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[01:02:47.850 --> 01:02:53.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: But to, to, to, to say, blame Obama for, uh, for not having the kind of healthcare we want.
[01:02:53.890 --> 01:02:58.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, that's on us for not backing up the kind of healthcare we got and pushing for more.
[01:02:59.110 --> 01:03:00.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Instead, we said, nope, not good enough.
[01:03:00.430 --> 01:03:04.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not going to support it and add my vote to the Republicans that don't support it as well.
[01:03:04.610 --> 01:03:07.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then the majority of people don't support it and you get nothing.
[01:03:07.090 --> 01:03:14.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what happens when you don't take a proactive interest in actually pushing, uh, your chosen candidate to do more.
[01:03:15.070 --> 01:03:19.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, and, and, you know, you can, you can, um, um, disagree with them, but you can still support them.
[01:03:19.950 --> 01:03:22.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think a lot of people just don't know how to do that.
[01:03:22.370 --> 01:03:23.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Look at how people treat, uh, de Blasio.
[01:03:23.990 --> 01:03:25.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Look at how people treat Cuomo.
[01:03:25.330 --> 01:03:27.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, and people are going to treat Biden the same way.
[01:03:27.890 --> 01:03:31.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: And guess who's going to march in and take over when that happens?
[01:03:32.330 --> 01:03:34.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway, uh, we have, we have another phone call.
[01:03:34.330 --> 01:03:34.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's go to that.
[01:03:35.550 --> 01:03:36.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[01:03:36.430 --> 01:03:37.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:03:38.910 --> 01:03:45.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just wanted to say, if you look up those 10 digits on that green mailbox, it is an Irish tracking service.
[01:03:45.770 --> 01:03:46.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:03:47.050 --> 01:03:47.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:03:47.410 --> 01:03:48.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: And where are you calling from?
[01:03:49.470 --> 01:03:50.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Queens, New York.
[01:03:50.590 --> 01:03:50.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:03:50.990 --> 01:03:52.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, you know what you're talking about.
[01:03:52.750 --> 01:03:55.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, so Ireland, I guess is, is, is confirmed.
[01:03:56.110 --> 01:04:00.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, can we say the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland, probably Republic of Ireland.
[01:04:01.030 --> 01:04:01.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right?
[01:04:02.530 --> 01:04:04.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: So this is a lot of it looking it up.
[01:04:04.830 --> 01:04:05.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:04:07.310 --> 01:04:07.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:04:07.910 --> 01:04:08.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's all I know.
[01:04:08.870 --> 01:04:09.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:04:09.370 --> 01:04:10.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anything else you want to say?
[01:04:11.090 --> 01:04:12.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, thank you for the show.
[01:04:12.490 --> 01:04:12.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:04:12.790 --> 01:04:13.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for calling.
[01:04:14.210 --> 01:04:14.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:04:14.690 --> 01:04:20.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Phone number 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK.
[01:04:21.050 --> 01:04:27.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this goes to show that if you ask for information, people are always willing to find out and give the information.
[01:04:27.910 --> 01:04:28.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, Alex.
[01:04:28.890 --> 01:04:33.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: I have a suggestion, if I may, for, for Off The Hook Overtime in the future.
[01:04:33.410 --> 01:04:36.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: Perhaps what we can do every week is change that photograph.
[01:04:37.270 --> 01:04:40.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: And this can be the basis of conversation every single week.
[01:04:40.990 --> 01:04:42.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, find that photo.
[01:04:42.330 --> 01:04:42.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: Where is it?
[01:04:42.710 --> 01:04:43.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think it would actually be kind of cool.
[01:04:44.010 --> 01:04:45.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, and who's going to do that, Alex?
[01:04:45.710 --> 01:04:49.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Who's going to rifle through all the photos and, and put it up every damn week, huh?
[01:04:50.250 --> 01:04:52.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just give them more, more homework is what you're doing.
[01:04:52.410 --> 01:04:52.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: How about this?
[01:04:58.310 --> 01:04:58.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: And post that.
[01:05:00.010 --> 01:05:00.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, there you go.
[01:05:01.350 --> 01:05:02.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: And those are being posted, right?
[01:05:03.790 --> 01:05:04.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, they are.
[01:05:04.550 --> 01:05:05.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Where can people see those?
[01:05:07.750 --> 01:05:08.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's a good question.
[01:05:08.690 --> 01:05:10.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, you can, you can find a whole bunch of them on Twitter, right?
[01:05:10.910 --> 01:05:12.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then there's a lot of these repos.
[01:05:12.490 --> 01:05:15.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: Rob, are you more aware of where you can find these repos?
[01:05:15.750 --> 01:05:25.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't, I don't know about the, uh, centralized repos, but, uh, yeah, follow donk underscore nb on Twitter, d-o-n-k underscore e-n-b-y, and there are links to all of these being posted.
[01:05:25.570 --> 01:05:29.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's also a fascinating account I've been following called Parler Takes.
[01:05:29.390 --> 01:05:29.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh.
[01:05:29.790 --> 01:05:29.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
[01:05:30.170 --> 01:05:36.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Which, yeah, which allows you to see this stuff without having to actually follow it yourself.
[01:05:36.670 --> 01:05:38.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, so how do you, how do you spell that?
[01:05:38.810 --> 01:05:38.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Fascinating.
[01:05:38.970 --> 01:05:39.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: How do you spell that?
[01:05:39.730 --> 01:05:43.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, it's just one word, p-a-r-l-e-r-t-a-k-e-s.
[01:05:43.890 --> 01:05:44.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: On Twitter.
[01:05:44.230 --> 01:05:44.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Parler Takes.
[01:05:45.070 --> 01:05:45.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, great, thank you for that.
[01:05:46.150 --> 01:05:48.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have a caller, good evening, you're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:05:50.070 --> 01:05:54.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi, um, you said it's the call and complain, and I wanted to complain about Parler.
[01:05:54.470 --> 01:05:55.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, hey, you're in the right place.
[01:05:56.930 --> 01:05:58.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is, this is complaining about Parler Central.
[01:06:00.530 --> 01:06:04.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, my problem with Parler is, like, it's a giant grift, right?
[01:06:04.950 --> 01:06:12.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: We already have these frameworks for, like, decentralized social networking, like Paloma, Mastodon.
[01:06:12.390 --> 01:06:13.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's tons of ways to do it.
[01:06:14.230 --> 01:06:17.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they just, like, created a crappy Twitter clone.
[01:06:18.550 --> 01:06:26.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: And fundraised off of it, and it's just, like, I'm going to ignore the whole content of Parler, but, like, the whole thing.
[01:06:26.610 --> 01:06:30.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're just making money off people, and it's crap.
[01:06:30.590 --> 01:06:31.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, Rob.
[01:06:31.550 --> 01:06:32.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: They don't care.
[01:06:33.470 --> 01:06:40.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, um, one really interesting, uh, aspect of why, um, you know, people might ask, why didn't they just start a Mastodon instance?
[01:06:40.470 --> 01:06:44.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: And that's because I don't think they were interested in the Federation aspect of it.
[01:06:45.210 --> 01:06:48.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: They didn't want to put up something that ticks from outside could still get in.
[01:06:48.530 --> 01:06:50.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: They wanted their own little club, their own little walled garden.
[01:06:51.130 --> 01:06:53.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, uh, that's why they just cloned Twitter and put that up.
[01:06:54.970 --> 01:06:55.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:06:55.330 --> 01:06:55.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Alex, go ahead.
[01:06:56.050 --> 01:06:56.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: For sure.
[01:06:59.110 --> 01:07:02.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, you know, I was actually itching my arm, but if you want me to...
[01:07:02.530 --> 01:07:03.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: You were raising your damn hand.
[01:07:04.150 --> 01:07:05.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: I figured you wanted to say something.
[01:07:06.270 --> 01:07:08.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is like, you know, you would make the worst auctioneer.
[01:07:08.910 --> 01:07:09.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: You'd have people buying things...
[01:07:09.990 --> 01:07:13.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, you would make the worst auction goer, or whatever they call people to go to auction.
[01:07:15.070 --> 01:07:28.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, but look, I think the caller's point underscores the point that I made during the main event, during Off The Hook on WBAI, which is that this thing was a crappy instance from the beginning.
[01:07:28.570 --> 01:07:29.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: There shouldn't have been fundraising.
[01:07:30.290 --> 01:07:36.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: Perhaps, you know, as I think the caller intimates, it may have even been part of some kind of fraud.
[01:07:36.170 --> 01:07:47.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, the fact that they raised money to support some crappy instance, and that they claimed that they had this state-of-the-art cybersecurity that they, you know, that they valued privacy, when they certainly, and obviously, were not.
[01:07:47.290 --> 01:07:48.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, Alex, of course it was fraud.
[01:07:48.650 --> 01:07:53.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, Steve Bannon raised money for a wall that was never built, and pocketed the money.
[01:07:53.430 --> 01:07:58.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Trump himself, raising money after the election for God knows what, kept all that money.
[01:07:58.970 --> 01:08:00.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, yeah, this is what they do.
[01:08:00.550 --> 01:08:00.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[01:08:01.230 --> 01:08:02.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, this is what they do.
[01:08:02.650 --> 01:08:17.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: But when you claim, when you're a business, and you raise money, and you take money from the public, and you have services out there for the public to use, but yet you are not doing on the back end what you claim to be doing, this is the kind of thing where the FTC may get involved,
[01:08:17.670 --> 01:08:23.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: or they may look into you, or they may launch an investigation for something like unfair or deceptive trade practices.
[01:08:23.870 --> 01:08:29.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: But what if you're registered in Belize, and Russia, and Turkmenistan, and all these other places?
[01:08:29.810 --> 01:08:30.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Who looks into you then?
[01:08:31.570 --> 01:08:34.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, they certainly were not, and they're offering services to U.S. citizens.
[01:08:34.550 --> 01:08:35.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're taking U.S. money from investors, I would imagine.
[01:08:37.270 --> 01:08:41.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: So they have all of these requisite connections to the U.S. forum, to the U.S. jurisdiction, for the Federal Trade Commission to launch some kind of investigation.
[01:08:46.870 --> 01:08:53.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I think deceptive trade practices would certainly be something, if I were on the FTC, I would look into that.
[01:08:53.230 --> 01:09:05.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, they're definitely on the defensive in sort of a crippled state, or they want to kind of hold on to it, or let it incubate in its relegated status.
[01:09:05.430 --> 01:09:17.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: So it exists, it has a destination, as we pointed out, but it's, I think, a lot, as where I was going with it, it's a lot of management, crisis management type stuff.
[01:09:18.170 --> 01:09:27.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, but without letting go of what they feel is a network, and good money in their, in the sense of a grift, right?
[01:09:28.430 --> 01:09:29.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Carla, did you have anything else to say?
[01:09:30.950 --> 01:09:35.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it just felt like a more palatable, like, institutional-backed Gab.
[01:09:36.430 --> 01:09:44.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because Gab, it's Gab did the same stuff, and it's just a repeat that, like, you know, people like the Mercers could dump all their money into, and it just irritates me.
[01:09:45.170 --> 01:09:50.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because there are things like, you know, the Fediverse, that could use that kind of money.
[01:09:50.390 --> 01:09:55.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: We could do amazing things with it, but, you know, they're just, they're grifters to this stuff.
[01:09:55.430 --> 01:10:01.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I think, I think, I think there's more awareness now, so maybe there's hope.
[01:10:01.130 --> 01:10:05.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe there's hope that that money will go to the right places in the future, because people are aware of this now.
[01:10:06.990 --> 01:10:07.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's hope so.
[01:10:08.130 --> 01:10:08.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's all I had to say.
[01:10:09.030 --> 01:10:09.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you.
[01:10:09.490 --> 01:10:10.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for your call.
[01:10:10.730 --> 01:10:13.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, getting good calls tonight, I have to say.
[01:10:13.750 --> 01:10:14.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can be one of them.
[01:10:15.150 --> 01:10:16.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: 802-321-4225.
[01:10:17.390 --> 01:10:18.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: 802-321-HACK.
[01:10:18.750 --> 01:10:21.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Alex, were you scratching yourself again, or raising your hand this time?
[01:10:23.570 --> 01:10:25.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was not raising my hand.
[01:10:25.010 --> 01:10:25.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was itchy.
[01:10:25.930 --> 01:10:27.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: What's going on over there in Pennsylvania?
[01:10:27.410 --> 01:10:28.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sounds like you need lotion or something.
[01:10:28.950 --> 01:10:29.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, seriously.
[01:10:30.450 --> 01:10:33.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Scratching like you're in the gorilla cage at the zoo.
[01:10:35.530 --> 01:10:35.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks.
[01:10:40.730 --> 01:10:41.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks, I guess.
[01:10:41.450 --> 01:10:42.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: And let's take this call.
[01:10:42.930 --> 01:10:43.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[01:10:43.450 --> 01:10:44.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:10:44.590 --> 01:10:44.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[01:10:45.970 --> 01:10:46.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.
[01:10:46.430 --> 01:10:47.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'd like to talk...
[01:10:47.590 --> 01:10:52.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: You mentioned about the DDoS card being business-based in Edinburgh.
[01:10:53.810 --> 01:10:57.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is a company formation called the Scottish Limited Partnership.
[01:10:58.410 --> 01:11:01.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: And over the last few years, there's been investigations into them.
[01:11:02.770 --> 01:11:15.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: One of the investigations had identified about £1 billion in cash that had been transferred from former Soviet bloc states through these partnership companies.
[01:11:16.410 --> 01:11:18.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: They are an absolute scandal.
[01:11:19.270 --> 01:11:24.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's one of the reasons where they're able to get this lack of transparency with it.
[01:11:25.410 --> 01:11:35.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: So it seems to me that, you know what I mean, across the world, we have a duty to actually go and fight against these injustices and shut down these avenues.
[01:11:35.850 --> 01:11:38.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: But it has to be done across the world.
[01:11:39.030 --> 01:11:39.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Agreed.
[01:11:39.530 --> 01:11:41.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are you, by chance, calling from Scotland?
[01:11:41.990 --> 01:11:42.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: I am.
[01:11:42.810 --> 01:11:43.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm calling from Edinburgh.
[01:11:43.890 --> 01:11:46.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: It is half past one in the morning, and I've been tuned in.
[01:11:47.770 --> 01:11:53.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: If I can give one suggestion, I would love if we would be able to get more interactions through the IRC channel.
[01:11:54.510 --> 01:12:00.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because without having YouTube comments on, it's not a very convenient time to be talking on the phone.
[01:12:00.930 --> 01:12:03.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: So it'd be good if we can kind of converse by text.
[01:12:03.350 --> 01:12:03.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[01:12:03.870 --> 01:12:05.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: We'll take that into consideration.
[01:12:05.190 --> 01:12:11.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can understand, though, why we perhaps chose not to have comments on YouTube, but we'll look into it.
[01:12:11.110 --> 01:12:14.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, if there are moderators and things, yeah, it can be manageable.
[01:12:14.350 --> 01:12:15.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Alex, I know you have something to say.
[01:12:16.810 --> 01:12:32.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I think this is such a great call to have received about something to be said on the air, and it just really underscores to me why we do this Off The Hook Overtime right now, and the interaction with the callers, and why it's so important as well,
[01:12:32.130 --> 01:12:33.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: because I had no idea about that.
[01:12:33.990 --> 01:12:39.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think anybody really knows about those interesting investigations that have been happening in Scotland into DDoS guards.
[01:12:40.130 --> 01:12:58.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: These money transfers that seem extraordinarily irregular, and the fact that they're using Scotland as a home base, or at least having telephones that ring into Scotland, is a nexus to that jurisdiction that allows those investigators and those regulators to make those types of inquiries.
[01:12:58.350 --> 01:12:59.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it sounds like they're doing it.
[01:12:59.650 --> 01:13:00.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: It sounds like they may get it somewhere.
[01:13:01.170 --> 01:13:08.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I would love it if the caller could continue to update us about those particular investigations.
[01:13:08.530 --> 01:13:18.190]  [SPEAKER_14]: So definitely stay in touch, whether it's IRC, whether it's Off The Hook Overtime, because I do think that the connection, this DDoS guard connection, there's something incredibly underhanded and shady about it.
[01:13:18.270 --> 01:13:34.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I will say as well that one of the things that I did when I saw that they had transferred their hosting over to DDoS guard was I looked up their NS records, and I found every single domain name that DDoS guard was hosting, every single domain that had NS records,
[01:13:34.330 --> 01:13:36.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: name server records that related to DDoS guard.
[01:13:36.750 --> 01:13:40.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I'll tell you, there aren't a huge, huge, huge amount of them.
[01:13:40.030 --> 01:13:45.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, what I found was, you know, slightly over 6,000, but I wasn't looking in all of the country code top-level domains.
[01:13:45.750 --> 01:13:51.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: We know that they host a lot in Russia, so there may be a whole bunch of .roos, perhaps, that weren't available.
[01:13:51.830 --> 01:13:57.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: But what I did see was that there were 6,000 or so, which is not a big number.
[01:13:57.050 --> 01:14:11.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: But a good portion of those were domain names that were, you know, cyber squatters or domains that were registered that could only be used for illegal, malicious, or fraudulent-type purposes as well.
[01:14:12.190 --> 01:14:21.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: So DDoSGuard itself, I think, is hosting a tremendous amount of content that it probably knows to be either borderline unlawful or unlawful itself.
[01:14:21.470 --> 01:14:25.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's something else, I think, should be looked into with respect to this host.
[01:14:25.410 --> 01:14:31.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it says a hell of a lot about Parler that it had to go to DDoSGuard for another hosting arrangement.
[01:14:31.910 --> 01:14:34.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: So thank you very much for that information, Caller, and definitely stay in touch.
[01:14:35.070 --> 01:14:36.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, and I really miss Edinburgh.
[01:14:37.090 --> 01:14:39.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's one of the first places I want to go when all this ends.
[01:14:40.810 --> 01:14:42.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, we'd be happy to have you back.
[01:14:42.470 --> 01:14:42.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's right.
[01:14:42.730 --> 01:14:43.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: We could go.
[01:14:43.410 --> 01:14:45.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: Caller, if you're still on the line, we could go to the Espionage Bar.
[01:14:46.050 --> 01:14:46.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yeah.
[01:14:46.890 --> 01:14:47.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, love it.
[01:14:47.970 --> 01:14:48.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh, definitely.
[01:14:49.370 --> 01:14:50.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I want to visit the guy...
[01:14:50.570 --> 01:14:54.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: ...at the moment due to lockdown, but I'm sure it'll be opening up in the next few months.
[01:14:54.570 --> 01:15:00.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: I want to visit the guy in Shetland who got my bottle in the middle of the ocean that drifted over to Shetland.
[01:15:00.550 --> 01:15:02.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think you can get there pretty easily from Scotland, correct?
[01:15:03.830 --> 01:15:04.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely so.
[01:15:04.810 --> 01:15:06.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: You can get the ferry or take the plane.
[01:15:06.930 --> 01:15:07.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[01:15:07.410 --> 01:15:07.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:15:07.750 --> 01:15:07.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Awesome.
[01:15:08.110 --> 01:15:08.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm there.
[01:15:09.090 --> 01:15:09.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:15:09.470 --> 01:15:10.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks again for the call.
[01:15:11.050 --> 01:15:11.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: All the best.
[01:15:11.750 --> 01:15:12.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Keep listening.
[01:15:13.030 --> 01:15:14.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we say one more call?
[01:15:15.190 --> 01:15:16.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do one more call.
[01:15:16.230 --> 01:15:16.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:15:17.030 --> 01:15:18.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: 802-321-4225.
[01:15:18.570 --> 01:15:19.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: 802-225.
[01:15:19.250 --> 01:15:20.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: So good connecting with our listeners again.
[01:15:21.010 --> 01:15:24.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's been too long, you know, and I really miss the studio.
[01:15:24.630 --> 01:15:26.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: I really miss the street.
[01:15:26.890 --> 01:15:32.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: I really miss going out afterwards and just doing the things that we all took for granted.
[01:15:32.790 --> 01:15:34.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe we'll never take them for granted again.
[01:15:34.770 --> 01:15:35.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's hope so.
[01:15:36.330 --> 01:15:37.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: 802-321-HACK.
[01:15:37.810 --> 01:15:39.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: 802-321-4225.
[01:15:39.970 --> 01:15:40.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: 802-325.
[01:15:44.690 --> 01:15:46.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: I figured I'd do that just for entertainment.
[01:15:46.550 --> 01:15:46.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry.
[01:15:47.190 --> 01:15:48.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Apparently, when you hit that button and there's no call...
[01:15:48.910 --> 01:15:49.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm up.
[01:15:49.850 --> 01:15:51.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's how you know there's no call.
[01:15:51.610 --> 01:15:52.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm up.
[01:15:52.950 --> 01:15:53.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[01:15:53.630 --> 01:15:55.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: So if there is a call, that doesn't happen.
[01:15:55.890 --> 01:15:57.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: If there isn't a call, that does happen.
[01:15:58.430 --> 01:15:59.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm learning.
[01:15:59.370 --> 01:16:00.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is...
[01:16:00.090 --> 01:16:00.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is...
[01:16:00.730 --> 01:16:00.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:16:00.890 --> 01:16:04.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have a call, so that won't happen when I do the exact same thing.
[01:16:04.410 --> 01:16:05.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: I wanted to take this call.
[01:16:05.910 --> 01:16:07.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: See, that's the Google lady.
[01:16:07.350 --> 01:16:07.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the Google...
[01:16:07.850 --> 01:16:08.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:16:08.070 --> 01:16:08.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: I press one.
[01:16:08.670 --> 01:16:09.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't press one for too long.
[01:16:09.770 --> 01:16:10.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Otherwise, you'll annoy the person.
[01:16:11.270 --> 01:16:11.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:16:11.930 --> 01:16:12.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, caller.
[01:16:12.750 --> 01:16:14.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the net, I guess.
[01:16:15.070 --> 01:16:15.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Off The Hook over time.
[01:16:15.850 --> 01:16:16.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[01:16:16.550 --> 01:16:17.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, thank you so much.
[01:16:18.690 --> 01:16:30.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm wondering if you get a current iPhone with facial recognition on it, if you're more likely to be tracked.
[01:16:31.610 --> 01:16:33.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, why don't one of you iPhone people answer that?
[01:16:36.450 --> 01:16:38.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't have face recognition, so I can't tell you.
[01:16:39.410 --> 01:16:40.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Alex, how about you?
[01:16:40.230 --> 01:16:41.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: It seems like the kind of thing you would like.
[01:16:42.430 --> 01:16:46.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I mean, it depends on what you're talking about by tracked, right?
[01:16:46.590 --> 01:17:00.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, are you concerned about setting up facial recognition, having that data then transferred over to some third-party, and then it sent over to law enforcement in some way or another, and then tracked that way?
[01:17:01.090 --> 01:17:03.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I wouldn't intend...
[01:17:03.230 --> 01:17:13.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, my reasoning for getting the phone in the first place is for convenience and for the camera, but...
[01:17:14.790 --> 01:17:32.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I wouldn't be using the facial recognition, so I'm wondering about getting a model that doesn't have it, because when I called Apple, they said, oh, no, it's only about, you know, logging in, and you don't really even have to use that.
[01:17:33.250 --> 01:17:45.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I'm thinking about the new reset and how we're going to be, you know, spied on even more.
[01:17:48.170 --> 01:17:49.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's interesting, Quandary.
[01:17:49.670 --> 01:18:02.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: I know kind of where you're getting at, and I think you've got to be a little bit careful going forward, because there are going to be some new technologies that we're going to want to talk about, and they're going to seem pretty futuristic.
[01:18:04.210 --> 01:18:31.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I really hope that conspiracy and sort of unfounded stuff doesn't take over, because it's really in the interest of the people that are unrolling these technologies, for people who talk about the technology to come off as conspiracy theorists, so that the actual functions aren't evaluated and looked into and talked about with seriousness.
[01:18:32.530 --> 01:18:44.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: So there's a little bit about handsets and hardware going forward and stuff that is going to have a lot of implications.
[01:18:44.590 --> 01:18:50.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: And so it's important to find out as much as possible as consumers.
[01:18:50.550 --> 01:19:00.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: And for like an instance like this, it would be, where is the information that is used to create a sense of recognizing my face?
[01:19:00.490 --> 01:19:01.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: Where is that stored?
[01:19:01.550 --> 01:19:05.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: And as Alex said, you know, it could be something that's held elsewhere.
[01:19:05.610 --> 01:19:10.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: Then if it's in sort of a data escrow like that, who is in charge of it?
[01:19:10.930 --> 01:19:21.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: And is there some mechanism for law enforcement or some other authority, a government or private entity that sells that facial recognition information?
[01:19:22.530 --> 01:19:23.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: Those are all important questions.
[01:19:24.130 --> 01:19:31.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: As far as from what I know, or would guess, I would say that that is not stored off the device.
[01:19:31.610 --> 01:19:39.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: And Apple is being as honest as they might be as a corporation when they say, no, it is just to unlock your phone.
[01:19:39.410 --> 01:19:46.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: It is probably held in the hardware on the phone in a chip that is not easy to exfiltrate data from.
[01:19:46.230 --> 01:19:48.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: But I'm not an iPhone person, so I don't really know that.
[01:19:49.070 --> 01:19:55.690]  [SPEAKER_13]: But absolutely, these questions and stuff, without getting into, like I said, unfounded stuff, we got to ask this stuff.
[01:19:55.790 --> 01:19:56.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: We got to know as consumers.
[01:19:58.130 --> 01:19:58.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, Alex.
[01:19:59.870 --> 01:20:13.650]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, and speaking of which, you know, further to Kyle's point, even, and to your point as well, Caller, which is that you spoke to Apple and they said there was nothing untoward happening with that particular data, which seems to really underscore Kyle's point.
[01:20:14.690 --> 01:20:22.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: But the issue then becomes, if they are not doing anything untoward with it now, what if they change their policies?
[01:20:22.530 --> 01:20:28.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: What if it becomes much more profitable to share that information with third parties?
[01:20:28.610 --> 01:20:32.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: Or to share it with some third-party who's using it for some kind of innovative purpose, something like that?
[01:20:32.830 --> 01:20:35.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, then their policies are always going to change.
[01:20:35.490 --> 01:20:40.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: What they're doing now may not be what they're doing tomorrow, may not be what they're doing in a month or a year or five years from now.
[01:20:40.550 --> 01:20:45.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: But then again, that being said, you know, what we're talking about is, you know, pictures of our faces, right?
[01:20:45.390 --> 01:20:51.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: And for most of us and many of us, you know, we willingly put that information out there on LinkedIn or on Facebook.
[01:20:58.810 --> 01:21:01.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I see this as somewhat low risk.
[01:21:02.170 --> 01:21:15.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: But the data surrounding your face and what they're taking in, how you use your phone, when you log into your phone, all of that information is metadata that could be surrounding that particular image that could also be really interesting to some third-party advertiser,
[01:21:16.090 --> 01:21:17.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: malicious actor, law enforcement, etc.
[01:21:18.050 --> 01:21:19.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: at some point down the road.
[01:21:19.370 --> 01:21:20.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I think you're right to be skeptical.
[01:21:20.970 --> 01:21:29.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: One last thing I wanted to mention is, I'm reminded of a sign I used to see at a cafe that I went to.
[01:21:29.270 --> 01:21:34.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it was just something I'm sure people have seen and said all over the place.
[01:21:34.430 --> 01:21:37.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: But it was, we reserve the right to confuse service.
[01:21:38.210 --> 01:21:43.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: I would encourage you, if you're around one of these technologies, reserve that right.
[01:21:43.450 --> 01:21:45.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: I know Emmanuel says it all the time.
[01:21:45.490 --> 01:21:48.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, maybe your dog's face unlocks your phone.
[01:21:48.130 --> 01:21:52.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Or a particular knothole in a tree or something.
[01:21:53.110 --> 01:21:57.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, do what you can to mess with things as much as possible.
[01:21:57.330 --> 01:22:01.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's something we always want to remind people that they have the power to do.
[01:22:02.490 --> 01:22:03.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right, I hear you.
[01:22:03.770 --> 01:22:12.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I did say, and they did tell me that I could still use a code to unlock my phone, which is my preference.
[01:22:12.090 --> 01:22:33.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I'm wondering if just having that facial recognition capability on the phone can be accessed by, say, you know, police or whoever to interface with my phone, unbeknownst to me.
[01:22:34.350 --> 01:22:41.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: The way I look at it, if that is possible, it's going to happen, and we'll find out about it.
[01:22:41.210 --> 01:22:43.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's not going to make them look very good at all.
[01:22:43.730 --> 01:22:47.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: And they are putting their business on the line.
[01:22:47.990 --> 01:22:50.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're betting their business in a lot of ways on privacy.
[01:22:50.550 --> 01:23:17.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: If you've seen a lot of Apple's ad campaigns, they're really trying to reaffirm people's trust in a lot of the ability to have compromise in the regular environment or with, in the case of law enforcement, they've not been cooperative in a lot of ways because they stand by the security of their devices.
[01:23:18.030 --> 01:23:30.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we've reported stories about law enforcement having to use other third-party devices to gain access and with whatever varying levels of success to do their work.
[01:23:30.690 --> 01:23:44.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: But it is not in Apple's interest to appear as though they are giving this willingly without consent in any way, let alone selling it in some way or so forth.
[01:23:45.710 --> 01:23:46.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:23:46.350 --> 01:23:47.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for your phone call.
[01:23:48.050 --> 01:23:49.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: And thank you for your show.
[01:23:49.830 --> 01:23:50.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:23:50.090 --> 01:23:50.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Take care.
[01:23:51.230 --> 01:23:51.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Bye.
[01:23:51.990 --> 01:23:53.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm glad people are asking questions.
[01:23:53.790 --> 01:23:55.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're so right to ask those questions.
[01:23:56.930 --> 01:23:59.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Our viewership goes up as the show goes on.
[01:23:59.650 --> 01:24:02.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, our energy is being depleted.
[01:24:02.710 --> 01:24:05.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have to call it a night.
[01:24:06.750 --> 01:24:07.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: What?
[01:24:08.130 --> 01:24:09.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can't take one more?
[01:24:10.550 --> 01:24:11.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, we gave out the number.
[01:24:11.930 --> 01:24:15.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I think we've taken... I mean, you know, people insist, but...
[01:24:15.250 --> 01:24:16.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's a good 40 minutes, 45 minutes.
[01:24:16.690 --> 01:24:18.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: How long is over time?
[01:24:18.290 --> 01:24:20.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it started out like 10, 15 minutes.
[01:24:20.930 --> 01:24:22.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think the first one we did was like 20 minutes.
[01:24:22.650 --> 01:24:24.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then people got more and more involved.
[01:24:24.610 --> 01:24:26.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, it could be all night.
[01:24:26.710 --> 01:24:27.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what's going to happen.
[01:24:27.490 --> 01:24:31.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: We were making up for a little time because the show ran a little late.
[01:24:32.130 --> 01:24:32.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's true.
[01:24:32.630 --> 01:24:33.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: But we made up for that time already.
[01:24:34.090 --> 01:24:34.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, we did.
[01:24:34.550 --> 01:24:35.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think we should take another call.
[01:24:35.950 --> 01:24:36.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: We can do one more.
[01:24:36.950 --> 01:24:37.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: One more call?
[01:24:37.730 --> 01:24:38.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:24:38.670 --> 01:24:39.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: One more.
[01:24:39.550 --> 01:24:40.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: One more.
[01:24:40.410 --> 01:24:41.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, then you give out the phone number.
[01:24:41.770 --> 01:24:42.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: How about that?
[01:24:44.970 --> 01:24:46.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: 802-321-HACK.
[01:24:47.630 --> 01:24:48.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: In numbers?
[01:24:50.350 --> 01:24:51.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: 4-2-2-5.
[01:24:52.130 --> 01:24:52.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks, Alex.
[01:24:52.470 --> 01:24:52.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[01:24:52.710 --> 01:24:53.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, we got a call, so...
[01:24:53.930 --> 01:24:56.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: But next time I expect you to say the whole thing, all 10 digits.
[01:24:57.190 --> 01:24:58.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not counting the one.
[01:24:58.970 --> 01:25:00.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Country code one, and you need a one anyway.
[01:25:01.330 --> 01:25:02.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening, caller.
[01:25:02.130 --> 01:25:03.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: You are our last caller.
[01:25:03.150 --> 01:25:03.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Where are you calling from?
[01:25:04.610 --> 01:25:05.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, great.
[01:25:06.430 --> 01:25:07.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: New York City.
[01:25:08.030 --> 01:25:09.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, that's pretty close.
[01:25:10.150 --> 01:25:10.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[01:25:12.070 --> 01:25:13.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: I love the show.
[01:25:13.450 --> 01:25:16.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: I went to HOPE one year, a couple years ago, out of the last.
[01:25:16.710 --> 01:25:16.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:25:17.050 --> 01:25:17.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Cool.
[01:25:17.490 --> 01:25:19.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: And hopefully there'll be another HOPE soon.
[01:25:19.830 --> 01:25:20.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: Cool.
[01:25:20.510 --> 01:25:20.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: Cool.
[01:25:21.390 --> 01:25:23.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: My question is about WhatsApp.
[01:25:24.870 --> 01:25:31.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: I heard that they were going to back down off of the invasion of our privacy with the new update.
[01:25:32.050 --> 01:25:33.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you have any information about that?
[01:25:34.890 --> 01:25:35.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: I haven't heard this.
[01:25:36.090 --> 01:25:36.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: Does anyone else know?
[01:25:37.230 --> 01:25:39.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: Or can you tell us a bit more about the story you found?
[01:25:42.210 --> 01:25:48.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was going around on the Internet that the new update since, you know, what's his name?
[01:25:48.330 --> 01:25:48.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: What?
[01:25:49.030 --> 01:25:49.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: What's up?
[01:25:49.930 --> 01:25:57.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: That he's going to now start selling ads and using your information to, you know, push ads towards what you're looking at, what your interests are.
[01:25:57.490 --> 01:26:00.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just to clarify, we're talking about WhatsApp, not what's up, right?
[01:26:00.830 --> 01:26:01.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what I'm going to make sure.
[01:26:01.750 --> 01:26:02.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: WhatsApp, okay, got it.
[01:26:04.850 --> 01:26:05.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[01:26:05.370 --> 01:26:11.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: So the invasion of your text messages and everything and what you're looking at was going to happen.
[01:26:12.070 --> 01:26:18.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: And he started backing down because he saw people exiting, going to, like, Signal and Clubhouse and things like that.
[01:26:18.650 --> 01:26:19.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think, Alex, you've got something?
[01:26:21.630 --> 01:26:29.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, there was quite, I think, a bit of press on over this issue on the last couple of weeks or so.
[01:26:29.950 --> 01:26:44.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I think you're right, caller, too, that originally, Zuckerberg said, especially when he was going through the due diligence process and the government review process for the acquisition of WhatsApp, that that data would not be cross-pollinated with other Facebook data.
[01:26:44.990 --> 01:26:45.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: They started doing that.
[01:26:45.970 --> 01:26:49.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: People started calling them out for it and then migrating from WhatsApp.
[01:26:49.550 --> 01:27:03.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: And what was interesting about this was that a lot of researchers and a lot of people had put together these infographics about the data that WhatsApp collects compared to the data that something like Signal would collect.
[01:27:03.610 --> 01:27:14.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you would see these massive data points, massive amount of data points, rather, that WhatsApp was collecting and then sharing with third parties, whereas something like Signal wasn't doing any of that.
[01:27:14.530 --> 01:27:32.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: So you had a massive migration of, I think, around 40 million users or so over to Signal within the period of a week, which was extraordinary and also caused a lot of annoying notifications for everyone on Signal, seeing that, you know, all these people are popping up,
[01:27:32.670 --> 01:27:34.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: people coming out of the woodworks.
[01:27:34.110 --> 01:27:35.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: I hate that feature, by the way.
[01:27:35.870 --> 01:27:40.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: I really hate that feature where you're told preemptively that people...
[01:27:40.130 --> 01:27:41.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm glad to complain, absolutely.
[01:27:41.330 --> 01:27:43.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: People that you know have joined Signal.
[01:27:44.150 --> 01:27:46.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, maybe they didn't want you to know that they joined Signal.
[01:27:46.490 --> 01:27:49.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's like, you know, you're advertising with a megaphone.
[01:27:49.350 --> 01:27:53.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: All these people are on Signal now, and you start getting welcome messages from people you don't even know.
[01:27:54.210 --> 01:27:59.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: It just seems like an invasion of privacy for a service that you're using for privacy.
[01:28:00.170 --> 01:28:00.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: I agree.
[01:28:00.970 --> 01:28:01.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: It really is stupid.
[01:28:01.950 --> 01:28:04.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's so stupid, you know, that they do that.
[01:28:05.550 --> 01:28:06.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: What have you been hearing?
[01:28:07.710 --> 01:28:09.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: No problem with the new update.
[01:28:10.850 --> 01:28:11.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well...
[01:28:11.250 --> 01:28:13.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because I didn't do it, and I've been shut down until I do it.
[01:28:13.750 --> 01:28:14.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I didn't do it yet.
[01:28:14.790 --> 01:28:15.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was trying to find out something.
[01:28:15.770 --> 01:28:16.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wow.
[01:28:16.430 --> 01:28:26.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: So the update itself is supposed to alleviate some of the stuff that was in integrating ad systems or ad networks into the application.
[01:28:26.310 --> 01:28:26.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: So it seems...
[01:28:26.770 --> 01:28:29.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you know anyone who has tried the update themselves?
[01:28:29.470 --> 01:28:30.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: I haven't done it.
[01:28:30.370 --> 01:28:33.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know if anybody else has, but what are you hearing?
[01:28:33.430 --> 01:28:35.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: What kinds of things have...
[01:28:35.090 --> 01:28:37.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: What's the reaction been from what you've been hearing?
[01:28:38.990 --> 01:28:41.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: Nobody I know is being forced to update.
[01:28:42.230 --> 01:28:44.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: I seem to be the only one that I know of.
[01:28:44.790 --> 01:28:45.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[01:28:45.050 --> 01:28:46.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: That has to do it right now.
[01:28:46.190 --> 01:28:47.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: I wonder why they're treating you differently.
[01:28:48.550 --> 01:28:48.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[01:28:48.950 --> 01:28:51.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: And they don't know it, and they're not paying attention, but I don't have what it matters.
[01:28:52.250 --> 01:28:53.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: I get prompted.
[01:28:53.590 --> 01:28:53.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:28:53.830 --> 01:28:57.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I said no, so I've been shut down temporarily.
[01:28:58.470 --> 01:28:59.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, somebody should try it.
[01:28:59.750 --> 01:29:00.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, it's...
[01:29:01.160 --> 01:29:02.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: I can understand...
[01:29:02.130 --> 01:29:07.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: Understandably, people are a little bit kind of nervous, and they backed off, as Alex was talking about, 40 million.
[01:29:08.110 --> 01:29:11.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's a lot of people to step away from something like that.
[01:29:11.970 --> 01:29:17.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: But it should be something that they're a little bit more transparent about.
[01:29:17.730 --> 01:29:25.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: Of course, they won't be, because there's so many things like algorithms and stuff under the hood that they want to keep closely guarded.
[01:29:25.430 --> 01:29:32.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: But if they did change it, and they removed any evidence, removed this, it should be something that we can verify.
[01:29:32.790 --> 01:29:33.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: How do we know?
[01:29:33.990 --> 01:29:35.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: You shouldn't have to be concerned.
[01:29:36.570 --> 01:29:40.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: You should be confident, right, as a user.
[01:29:41.030 --> 01:29:42.370]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's in their interest.
[01:29:42.670 --> 01:29:46.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: If people are uncomfortable, they're not going to be really interested in coming back.
[01:29:46.170 --> 01:29:48.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, I think that's kind of the point you're making, right?
[01:29:48.490 --> 01:29:48.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:29:48.690 --> 01:29:49.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: If people treat you...
[01:29:49.950 --> 01:29:59.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: If a service you're using treats you in such a hostile manner as to prevent you from using it unless you upgrade on a mandatory upgrade, maybe look at a different service.
[01:29:59.770 --> 01:30:01.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe, you know, that relationship isn't going anywhere.
[01:30:01.770 --> 01:30:04.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: Especially when they lead it that way, and they, you know, trust us.
[01:30:04.570 --> 01:30:08.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, if you let us down before, we're not going to just dive right back into that.
[01:30:08.910 --> 01:30:09.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: We actually want to know.
[01:30:10.470 --> 01:30:10.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[01:30:11.610 --> 01:30:14.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, they kept warning me, three days, you're going to have to update.
[01:30:14.910 --> 01:30:15.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: Two days, you're going to have to update.
[01:30:15.990 --> 01:30:21.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: So on the day of, like 12, high noon, it was like, you didn't update.
[01:30:21.470 --> 01:30:22.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: Your service is down.
[01:30:24.030 --> 01:30:24.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just like that.
[01:30:25.190 --> 01:30:27.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's tough, though, because those are connections.
[01:30:27.470 --> 01:30:27.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's people.
[01:30:28.150 --> 01:30:28.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: That could be family.
[01:30:29.170 --> 01:30:31.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: That could be stuff you want to catch up on.
[01:30:31.230 --> 01:30:39.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: But here you are, left, having to make this sort of decision about your personal info.
[01:30:39.530 --> 01:30:41.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, you know, it was never supposed to be about that.
[01:30:42.030 --> 01:30:43.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: You just want to talk to people.
[01:30:43.170 --> 01:30:43.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: These are bullying tactics.
[01:30:44.330 --> 01:30:52.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're literally, well, not literally, but, you know, shoving you into a doorway, forcing you to accept their terms or be miserable.
[01:30:52.630 --> 01:30:57.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: I just don't think that's a good premise to continue with.
[01:30:57.310 --> 01:30:57.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Alex, go ahead.
[01:30:58.710 --> 01:31:05.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: I have a theory about the caller and why he was singled out for updating as opposed to everybody else.
[01:31:05.310 --> 01:31:11.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think that the caller is rightfully skeptical of lots of different things, updates included.
[01:31:11.970 --> 01:31:22.690]  [SPEAKER_14]: And he has failed to install several updates to the application, meaning that he is about to be on an end-of-life version of the actual app itself.
[01:31:22.710 --> 01:31:25.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's what's forcing him to do the update.
[01:31:25.250 --> 01:31:28.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: So maybe, caller, can you tell me if my theory is right?
[01:31:28.070 --> 01:31:29.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: Have you done all of the updates recently?
[01:31:29.730 --> 01:31:32.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: When was the last time you updated the app?
[01:31:34.310 --> 01:31:38.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: The last update probably was mandatory also.
[01:31:38.990 --> 01:31:44.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: But the thing about the privacy and selling your information wasn't going around, so I didn't.
[01:31:44.870 --> 01:31:47.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I didn't want to, but I did it.
[01:31:47.270 --> 01:31:51.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: There was no threat of breach of privacy, so I went on ahead and did it.
[01:31:51.350 --> 01:31:57.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: If I didn't have to, I wouldn't have, but now I, now I'm not, maybe I'm going to go to Signal, you know?
[01:31:57.470 --> 01:31:59.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, maybe, maybe that's a better idea.
[01:32:00.790 --> 01:32:17.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Although, I have to say, Signal annoys me because half the time there's a big dialogue box that says, there's an upgrade to Signal, and you can't read your messages because it's there sitting over everything, and that happens like every week, so it's,
[01:32:17.130 --> 01:32:18.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: they're all kind of annoying.
[01:32:19.030 --> 01:32:22.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, sometimes I'm just happy with what I have, and I want to leave it the way it is.
[01:32:23.950 --> 01:32:25.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're talking about the desktop?
[01:32:25.570 --> 01:32:27.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Desktop, yes, desktop, I'm sorry.
[01:32:28.810 --> 01:32:30.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: You guys ever use Clubhouse, anybody?
[01:32:31.250 --> 01:32:32.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, I haven't.
[01:32:33.110 --> 01:32:33.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, okay.
[01:32:35.290 --> 01:32:36.630]  [SPEAKER_14]: I haven't either.
[01:32:37.150 --> 01:32:38.930]  [SPEAKER_14]: I see a lot of people talking about it.
[01:32:38.930 --> 01:32:43.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: I just, I just don't want another thing to look at on my phone, you know?
[01:32:43.070 --> 01:32:46.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm trying, I'm trying to unclutter, rather than sign up for more things.
[01:32:46.910 --> 01:32:48.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: You need a second phone, then.
[01:32:51.190 --> 01:32:51.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's funny.
[01:32:52.050 --> 01:32:52.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:32:52.570 --> 01:32:53.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Caller, thank you for your call.
[01:32:54.590 --> 01:32:55.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks, guys.
[01:32:55.290 --> 01:32:56.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Appreciate your show.
[01:32:56.550 --> 01:32:56.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[01:32:57.150 --> 01:32:57.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Take care.
[01:32:57.770 --> 01:32:58.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Great to hear you.
[01:32:58.290 --> 01:32:58.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: Have a good night.
[01:32:59.390 --> 01:32:59.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: You too.
[01:33:00.250 --> 01:33:00.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:33:00.710 --> 01:33:01.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm glad we took one more call.
[01:33:02.010 --> 01:33:02.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: That was, that was, that was good.
[01:33:03.870 --> 01:33:07.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, folks, I guess that's going to do it for, for us here tonight.
[01:33:08.390 --> 01:33:09.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll be back again next week.
[01:33:10.630 --> 01:33:21.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Again, you can listen to all prior episodes, not only of Off The Hook, but of all our shows and, and shows I was involved in before Off The Hook even happened, before 2600 even happened.
[01:33:21.330 --> 01:33:21.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[01:33:22.410 --> 01:33:25.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you can listen to us on WBAI at 7 p.m.
[01:33:25.810 --> 01:33:35.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: every, every Wednesday for Off The Hook and, of course, Off The Hook Overtime Following, which you can get at 2600.com or wherever the hell you get your podcasts, we will be back.
[01:33:35.990 --> 01:33:38.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: And write to us, oth@2600.com.
[01:33:38.950 --> 01:33:40.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Any last words from everybody out there?
[01:33:41.710 --> 01:33:42.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[01:33:42.990 --> 01:33:46.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: We were talking earlier of things we used to be able to do that we can't right now.
[01:33:46.450 --> 01:33:49.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: And among those things is 2600 meetings, which are still suspended.
[01:33:49.910 --> 01:33:57.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: But a lot of local meetings are still doing meetups virtually to mitigate the loss a little bit.
[01:33:57.110 --> 01:33:58.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: We're doing that in New York.
[01:33:58.190 --> 01:34:02.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: So if you'd like to join in on Friday, go to nyc2600.net.
[01:34:02.830 --> 01:34:03.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: All the info is there.
[01:34:03.750 --> 01:34:05.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: I also saw...
[01:34:05.070 --> 01:34:05.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: Go ahead.
[01:34:06.730 --> 01:34:13.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: ...on the 2600 subreddit, actually, that there's going to be a worldwide virtual meeting.
[01:34:13.970 --> 01:34:14.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:34:14.550 --> 01:34:15.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know anything about this.
[01:34:15.790 --> 01:34:15.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:34:16.330 --> 01:34:17.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, great.
[01:34:18.490 --> 01:34:19.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hang on.
[01:34:19.130 --> 01:34:19.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let me...
[01:34:19.390 --> 01:34:22.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: How do you connect to a worldwide global 2600 meeting?
[01:34:23.710 --> 01:34:25.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm going to tell you as soon as this loads.
[01:34:27.110 --> 01:34:36.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, the Hispagados Collective, who did the Anarchist Hacker Village at HOPE, um, are running a thing at matrix.hackers.town.
[01:34:37.670 --> 01:34:43.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, and they are through Mozilla hubs, apparently.
[01:34:43.210 --> 01:34:45.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: And you don't need to have VR, but you can.
[01:34:45.730 --> 01:34:51.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that is a worldwide 2600 meeting that is occurring on Friday.
[01:34:51.790 --> 01:34:52.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is there a time?
[01:34:54.030 --> 01:34:55.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, I don't know.
[01:34:55.830 --> 01:34:56.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[01:34:56.410 --> 01:34:56.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: Zulu time.
[01:34:57.110 --> 01:34:59.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's kind of an important part of all this.
[01:34:59.510 --> 01:35:01.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or just a place people can find out more info.
[01:35:02.290 --> 01:35:02.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[01:35:02.930 --> 01:35:03.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: 5.30 Eastern.
[01:35:04.390 --> 01:35:04.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[01:35:05.070 --> 01:35:05.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:35:07.350 --> 01:35:09.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, yeah.
[01:35:09.770 --> 01:35:13.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you can figure out all that stuff, then by all means, do that.
[01:35:13.830 --> 01:35:14.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[01:35:14.470 --> 01:35:16.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hispagados.org, apparently.
[01:35:16.450 --> 01:35:17.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, excellent.
[01:35:17.390 --> 01:35:19.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: We do like Matrix, so we've used it.
[01:35:19.390 --> 01:35:21.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's what we use for, uh, during HOPE.
[01:35:21.410 --> 01:35:23.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: There's a bunch of the stuff that we use for HOPE.
[01:35:23.190 --> 01:35:24.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was very, very successful.
[01:35:24.330 --> 01:35:25.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Alex, looks like you want to say something.
[01:35:26.130 --> 01:35:26.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[01:35:26.950 --> 01:35:28.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: Kyle, did you call that out at Zulu time?
[01:35:29.290 --> 01:35:30.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: As something that was going to be Zulu time?
[01:35:30.510 --> 01:35:32.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: I was requesting Zulu in Zulu time, yeah.
[01:35:33.070 --> 01:35:33.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: In Zulu time.
[01:35:34.110 --> 01:35:37.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is that a shout out to last week's show or whatever the hell it was?
[01:35:37.330 --> 01:35:38.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, we had a good talk about it.
[01:35:38.610 --> 01:35:41.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Three weeks ago, and yes, we did talk about Zulu time a bit, and I learned a lot about it.
[01:35:42.010 --> 01:35:42.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: We did.
[01:35:42.670 --> 01:35:42.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mm-hmm.
[01:35:43.050 --> 01:35:44.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: So that would be 10.30 Zulu time.
[01:35:44.570 --> 01:36:02.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, uh, on the subject of meetings, uh, if, um, if you are, uh, currently involved in a meeting anywhere in the world, we suggest you follow the Twitter account, 2600 meetings, and also update that account or, uh, the email address meetings at 2600.com.
[01:36:02.850 --> 01:36:19.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let them know if you intend to continue your meeting after all this craziness is over, uh, uh, because I understand we're going to just be rebooting the whole thing so that, uh, um, all the meetings need to, uh, uh, I guess, re-register or at least let us know that you're out there and still having meetings.
[01:36:20.590 --> 01:36:23.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: So when, yeah, when, when, uh, I know what's going to happen.
[01:36:23.950 --> 01:36:28.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: A lot of people won't do this and we're going to go down quite a bit, but I think that's necessary.
[01:36:28.590 --> 01:36:36.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think we have to, um, uh, double check, make sure people, uh, still are interested in having in-person meetings or maybe they've been replaced by other meetings.
[01:36:36.510 --> 01:36:45.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, so sometime before we actually go back to having in-person meetings and who knows when that will be, hopefully in the next few months, might be longer.
[01:36:45.910 --> 01:36:46.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're not sure.
[01:36:47.070 --> 01:36:52.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, we'll, uh, we'll, we'll have a, a comprehensive list and it'll be great.
[01:36:52.290 --> 01:36:53.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: It'll be, it'll be really amazing.
[01:36:54.590 --> 01:37:05.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, if you're, um, if you're eligible for the vaccine, please get that vaccine so that we can, uh, start bringing these numbers down and, uh, hopefully, uh, hopefully this will be history.
[01:37:06.030 --> 01:37:13.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Something we, we think back on, maybe not so fondly, but, uh, maybe, uh, we'll learn a lot from these experiences.
[01:37:15.170 --> 01:37:15.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: I have.
[01:37:16.950 --> 01:37:17.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Me too.
[01:37:18.070 --> 01:37:18.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Last words, guys.
[01:37:18.830 --> 01:37:19.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anything?
[01:37:21.630 --> 01:37:23.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, welcome to the Biden administration.
[01:37:23.670 --> 01:37:27.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, I've gone entire days now without thinking about who the president was.
[01:37:27.310 --> 01:37:29.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's, it's been such a, such a tonic.
[01:37:29.610 --> 01:37:36.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry for playing that clip, which probably brought it back, but, um, it was a, it was a gem and I, I felt we should share that.
[01:37:36.830 --> 01:37:37.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:37:37.330 --> 01:37:37.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Until next week then.
[01:37:38.070 --> 01:37:38.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good night.
[01:37:39.330 --> 01:37:39.870]  [SPEAKER_14]: Have a good night.