Off The Hook - 2021-08-04

[00:00.000 --> 00:03.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: ...for Off The Hook coming up in the next hour.
[00:04.640 --> 00:05.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, excuse me.
[00:07.220 --> 00:11.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we're about... and we're going to transition to that program right now.
[00:11.920 --> 00:14.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, stay tuned for Off The Hook.
[00:15.680 --> 00:18.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: WBAI New York, WBAI.org.
[00:18.280 --> 00:18.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Stay tuned.
[00:37.790 --> 00:41.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: It is 7 o'clock, more or less.
[00:41.410 --> 00:45.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's time on WBAI New York for another edition.
[00:47.230 --> 00:47.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: ...of Off The Hook.
[02:28.160 --> 02:29.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: And a very good evening.
[02:29.080 --> 02:31.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: The entire ride of the program is Off The Hook.
[02:32.080 --> 02:33.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
[02:34.240 --> 02:35.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Joined tonight by Kyle.
[02:36.780 --> 02:38.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I'm over here.
[02:38.280 --> 02:39.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can you read me?
[02:40.760 --> 02:42.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: I could never read you, Kyle.
[02:42.320 --> 02:44.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can, at best, give a wild guess.
[02:44.780 --> 02:45.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, thanks for trying.
[02:45.700 --> 02:46.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I do try.
[02:46.900 --> 02:48.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have Alex.
[02:50.160 --> 02:50.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[02:51.340 --> 02:52.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have Rob T.
[02:52.740 --> 02:53.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Firefly.
[02:54.120 --> 02:55.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[02:55.300 --> 02:55.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we have Gila.
[02:56.500 --> 02:57.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[02:57.220 --> 02:58.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Welcome to all you folks in Skype-land.
[03:02.860 --> 03:07.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you know, got some things to say.
[03:10.000 --> 03:11.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I'm outraged.
[03:11.360 --> 03:12.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I'm sure we all are outraged.
[03:12.920 --> 03:24.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sure we're all fed up and just, you know, basically trying to figure out how best to respond to this latest outrage, you know, this latest, this latest injustice.
[03:25.480 --> 03:27.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you all know what I'm talking about, right?
[03:27.140 --> 03:30.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's basically what we are expected to do now.
[03:30.380 --> 03:30.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[03:31.440 --> 03:32.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: In New York City.
[03:33.160 --> 03:43.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: When we go into New York City, we are now expected to show proof that we have been vaccinated before we can go into a restaurant or into a gym.
[03:43.920 --> 03:45.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: The two places I like to go to the most.
[03:47.340 --> 03:54.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: And now I'm told that I'm going to have to have this, this card that I have in my hand.
[03:54.860 --> 03:55.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[03:55.400 --> 03:59.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to have to show this at the door when I go into a restaurant.
[04:00.820 --> 04:01.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[04:01.780 --> 04:03.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: So let me explain to you my problem with this.
[04:04.440 --> 04:05.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: This thing, look at it.
[04:05.940 --> 04:06.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: It has my name on it.
[04:06.920 --> 04:07.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[04:07.980 --> 04:12.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: I am now giving my name to the person at the restaurant.
[04:12.660 --> 04:16.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: When normally I wouldn't do that until when I was giving him my credit card.
[04:16.300 --> 04:16.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[04:16.860 --> 04:22.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: So now I'm expected to give him this information before I even set foot in the establishment.
[04:24.260 --> 04:25.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's got my name on it.
[04:25.960 --> 04:26.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not in my handwriting.
[04:26.600 --> 04:27.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Someone else wrote my name.
[04:28.920 --> 04:32.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: But now the guy at the door knows my name.
[04:33.000 --> 04:35.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: He knows that I've been vaccinated.
[04:36.920 --> 04:42.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: He knows that he even has a date that I got vaccinated.
[04:43.180 --> 04:45.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, where does this stop?
[04:45.460 --> 04:49.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, it's such an infringement.
[04:49.120 --> 04:52.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's such an infringement on our liberties.
[04:52.300 --> 04:53.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have to do something about this.
[04:54.160 --> 04:58.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, you know, it's bad enough that when I give my credit card to the establishment, they have my name.
[04:58.960 --> 04:59.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: I always cross it out.
[04:59.980 --> 05:01.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, when they give the receipt, I always cross it out.
[05:02.040 --> 05:04.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then I ask them in a loud tone of voice, who am I?
[05:04.820 --> 05:07.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, and see if they remember my name.
[05:07.500 --> 05:08.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: And sometimes they do.
[05:08.760 --> 05:10.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then I just shout out other names.
[05:10.180 --> 05:13.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: David, Phil, George, until they don't remember my name anymore.
[05:13.540 --> 05:15.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: That is what the founding fathers had in mind.
[05:15.540 --> 05:15.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[05:16.680 --> 05:17.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's called anonymity.
[05:19.220 --> 05:22.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's one of our cherished God-given rights by the United States of America.
[05:22.940 --> 05:34.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I will be good and goddamned if I'm going to show this piece of paper just to walk through the door and use my credit card inside an establishment.
[05:38.140 --> 05:38.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's just...
[05:38.940 --> 05:40.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm livid.
[05:40.240 --> 05:42.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm livid that we are expected to do something like this.
[05:44.420 --> 05:45.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: How dare them?
[05:46.740 --> 05:48.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have no other words.
[05:49.800 --> 05:51.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alex, you know what I'm talking about, right?
[05:53.120 --> 05:54.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: To a certain extent, I think.
[05:54.640 --> 05:55.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's outrageous.
[05:56.000 --> 06:00.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: What a sacrifice for everybody to have to do this, to have to carry...
[06:00.940 --> 06:03.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: First of all, another piece of paper I have to carry in my pocket.
[06:03.500 --> 06:04.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you know how many things I have to carry now?
[06:04.980 --> 06:06.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: They want me to carry a license.
[06:06.580 --> 06:08.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: They want me to carry the credit card to pay for things.
[06:08.760 --> 06:12.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now they want me to carry this to prove that I was vaccinated so I can go in and do things.
[06:14.220 --> 06:21.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I mean, my biggest gripe with the whole situation is that the vaccine card doesn't actually fit in a wallet.
[06:21.780 --> 06:22.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's not wallet size.
[06:22.580 --> 06:26.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: So whoever designed this, I think, should be fired.
[06:26.360 --> 06:45.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: But you guys have it easy, I feel like, because you'll be able to rely on your Excelsior pass for most of this access, having it on your smartphone, waving that in the face of the bouncer at the gym that you inevitably go to every morning, Emmanuel.
[06:47.480 --> 06:53.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, you know, me, on the other hand, or I don't know what I'm going to do.
[06:53.440 --> 07:02.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: Since I was vaccinated out of state, I have researched whether or not I can get the Excelsior pass with an out-of-state vaccine, and apparently you cannot.
[07:03.500 --> 07:06.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I guess I'm just going to be ordering takeout for a while.
[07:06.680 --> 07:07.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: In Pennsylvania.
[07:08.820 --> 07:09.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, in Pennsylvania.
[07:10.580 --> 07:12.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: Although I am in New York tonight.
[07:13.100 --> 07:14.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: They let you in.
[07:14.600 --> 07:15.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: They let me in.
[07:15.620 --> 07:15.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: Wow.
[07:15.760 --> 07:16.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: They let me in these days.
[07:16.560 --> 07:20.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't think that the barriers go up at the Lincoln Tunnel until early September.
[07:20.920 --> 07:22.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, the wallet situation is easily solved.
[07:22.880 --> 07:26.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: I tape it to my shirt, so I always know where it is.
[07:26.540 --> 07:29.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that way I don't even have to have a conversation with people at the door.
[07:29.380 --> 07:32.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: They just look at me, and they usually nod or sometimes roll their eyes.
[07:33.960 --> 07:34.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, yeah.
[07:34.740 --> 07:35.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm trying, folks.
[07:35.640 --> 07:37.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm trying to find the outrage here.
[07:37.400 --> 07:38.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: I really am.
[07:38.300 --> 07:40.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I feel like I'm not doing enough.
[07:41.260 --> 07:43.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: People are upset at this.
[07:45.260 --> 07:58.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, when I first heard that there was a vaccine earlier in the year, I naively thought people would be happy and that they would be crowding to get the vaccine.
[07:58.480 --> 08:03.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: But I realize now, I'm in 21st century America, and, no, people are never happy.
[08:03.840 --> 08:05.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: We need to find something to complain about.
[08:05.820 --> 08:08.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's what I need your help with, is to find something to complain about here.
[08:09.100 --> 08:16.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Having to show this card, this piece of paper that has my name on it, and shows that I was vaccinated.
[08:18.700 --> 08:25.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: That is an attack on my freedom somehow, because, yeah, that's where it breaks down.
[08:25.600 --> 08:27.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can't figure out the rest of it.
[08:29.700 --> 08:40.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I mean, I frankly see it as not something that should have come as a surprise to most of us.
[08:40.600 --> 08:41.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, there are so many...
[08:42.600 --> 08:43.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know if you can hear that.
[08:43.720 --> 08:45.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: Obviously, I'm still in the city.
[08:46.260 --> 08:52.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: There are so many barriers to doing certain things with public institutions based on vaccination status to begin with.
[08:52.940 --> 08:58.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, I can't send my kids to public school in New York without providing some form of proof of vaccination.
[09:00.340 --> 09:05.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I think, you know, traveling internationally, it's been that way for quite a while as well.
[09:06.240 --> 09:12.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, you know, this is just, I think, a public health initiative to protect the majority of citizens.
[09:13.380 --> 09:32.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: And it recognizes that being vaccinated is not a choice that has entirely to do with oneself, but it has to do with a duty to third parties, the duty to protect others, and an overall responsibility of the government to ensure the public health.
[09:33.400 --> 09:34.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, I got it.
[09:34.400 --> 09:41.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, Rand Paul says that we don't have that duty to defend other people, all right?
[09:41.020 --> 09:43.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: We don't have to be courteous.
[09:43.920 --> 09:45.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just ask his neighbor, he knows.
[09:46.160 --> 09:49.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: We don't have to think of anyone but ourselves.
[09:49.960 --> 09:52.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: And again, that's what the Founding Fathers had in mind.
[09:53.520 --> 09:55.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: When they started this whole thing.
[09:56.700 --> 09:57.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: Sure.
[09:57.640 --> 10:07.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I mean, in one sense, though, I mean, there is this competing legal doctrine about the duty to help other people or the duty to rescue.
[10:07.440 --> 10:20.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: And in most states in the United States, if you see a dying man on the street, he's about to bleed out, you could save him by, you know, putting a salve to the wound or creating a tourniquet or anything.
[10:20.120 --> 10:21.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: You have no obligation to do so.
[10:21.600 --> 10:26.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: You have every right to just continue walking down that street as if you didn't see that.
[10:26.140 --> 10:27.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: He made that choice.
[10:27.380 --> 10:28.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's on him.
[10:28.940 --> 10:31.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, but that's the duty to rescue.
[10:31.480 --> 10:35.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's the duty to affirmatively step in and help somebody who is in need.
[10:35.540 --> 10:36.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: We don't have that duty.
[10:37.680 --> 10:40.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: In this country, in almost, I think, every single state.
[10:41.060 --> 10:45.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm not sure if that's the law in every state, but in most states it is.
[10:46.100 --> 10:58.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: But the duty to not harm others, I think that's not only moral, but also can be considered to be embodied within the common law of the United States as well.
[10:58.900 --> 11:07.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: Because, you know, we have these laws prohibiting assaults and batteries and menacing and all these things that we do to third parties that could be harmful.
[11:08.040 --> 11:09.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: They're prohibited.
[11:10.140 --> 11:11.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: When are they not harmed?
[11:11.620 --> 11:13.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: When is assault and battery not harmful?
[11:14.440 --> 11:15.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: I guess when it's consensual.
[11:16.160 --> 11:17.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: That would be my guess.
[11:17.560 --> 11:20.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: A lot of people do like to consent to that kind of thing.
[11:20.240 --> 11:22.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think that's what the Founding Fathers had in mind.
[11:22.600 --> 11:23.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, you never know.
[11:23.840 --> 11:25.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: They, you know, they had some funny clothes.
[11:26.560 --> 11:33.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: In any event, I think that the duty to help others is very different from the duty not to harm others.
[11:33.780 --> 11:45.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I think that being vaccinated is a duty that we impose on ourselves, or rather that society imposes on ours, and we have to fulfill to not harm other people.
[11:45.340 --> 11:48.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I think philosophically, it's very different.
[11:48.520 --> 12:00.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: But to be the, you know, the real devil's advocate here, I, you know, and we mentioned this on Overtime, I think, several weeks ago, but, you know, the law about forced vaccinations in this country hasn't always been great.
[12:01.100 --> 12:07.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's led to some pretty horrible legal precedents, things that happened, you know, 100 years ago.
[12:07.300 --> 12:10.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: But again, we've evolved as a country over this last 100 years.
[12:11.160 --> 12:14.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: Vaccines have, I think, a permanent place in our culture.
[12:15.100 --> 12:24.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: They're rationally related to public health, and the government can impose these certain restrictions without it offending constitutional norms or principles.
[12:25.140 --> 12:27.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I was reading something.
[12:27.220 --> 12:37.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think it was Thomas Jefferson, way back in the 1700s, who regretted not getting a smallpox vaccine for, I believe, one of his kids.
[12:38.360 --> 12:39.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: That was Ben Franklin.
[12:39.560 --> 12:40.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: That was Ben Franklin.
[12:40.120 --> 12:40.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[12:40.560 --> 12:41.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, that was Ben Franklin.
[12:41.700 --> 12:47.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't know they had vaccines all the way back in the 1700s, but let alone anti-vax movements.
[12:48.300 --> 12:49.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's how he said it.
[12:49.480 --> 12:51.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was his words, literally his words.
[12:51.320 --> 12:56.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: He used, I'm pretty sure he used the word, an inoculation, rather than a vaccine.
[12:56.440 --> 12:57.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, fine, inoculation.
[12:57.680 --> 13:00.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: But that's still a pretty big word for them to use back in the 1700s.
[13:01.320 --> 13:02.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, it certainly was.
[13:03.480 --> 13:05.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: A lot of syllables for an 18th century man.
[13:06.140 --> 13:08.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: But it was very similar to what a vaccine was.
[13:08.380 --> 13:17.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: An inoculation in the 18th century involved, usually, you know, there were some kind of sores or pus from somebody who was sick.
[13:17.420 --> 13:24.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: And what you would do is you would take a little bit of that and inject it into the skin of a child.
[13:24.360 --> 13:30.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: So essentially, you were infecting them with the pus of somebody else who was infected.
[13:30.180 --> 13:32.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's a pretty horrific process when you think about it.
[13:32.660 --> 13:38.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: And so it's understandable that Ben Franklin would not have wanted to inflict this upon his child.
[13:38.860 --> 13:55.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: But the whole idea of the inoculation and a vaccination was very similar in that you were injecting a small amount of a deadly virus or disease into the body so that you could fight it and the body would learn how to protect against it in the future.
[13:55.780 --> 14:01.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: And so, you know, even though there's a difference, I think that it's a distinction with a minor difference.
[14:02.000 --> 14:05.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: But the sentiment was absolutely on par.
[14:05.340 --> 14:13.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I believe that Ben Franklin's young child, I think it was a four or five-year-old child, died from...
[14:14.080 --> 14:15.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think it was smallpox.
[14:15.400 --> 14:16.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: Was it smallpox?
[14:16.340 --> 14:17.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think it was smallpox.
[14:18.180 --> 14:19.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I think it was.
[14:19.680 --> 14:19.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[14:20.060 --> 14:21.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, it's a very sad story.
[14:21.440 --> 14:30.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: But there's no guarantee that the inoculation itself wouldn't have killed the child because you weren't injecting a weakened version of smallpox into the system.
[14:30.060 --> 14:37.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: You were injecting, you know, pus or sores or some kind of bodily fluid.
[14:37.800 --> 14:41.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here's the actual quote from Ben Franklin.
[14:41.260 --> 14:47.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: In 1736, I lost one of my sons, a fine boy of four years old, by the smallpox taken in the common way.
[14:48.080 --> 14:53.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: I long regretted bitterly and still regret that I had not given it to him by inoculation.
[14:54.380 --> 15:06.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's kind of a strange phrasing, but it's basically saying, you know, take precautions, you stupid idiots who are anti-doing the right thing.
[15:06.700 --> 15:08.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: And very much regretful.
[15:08.380 --> 15:09.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Very much regretful, yes.
[15:09.900 --> 15:10.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rob, go ahead.
[15:11.700 --> 15:14.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it is for the public good.
[15:14.180 --> 15:20.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we have long been used to other, you know, surrenders of personal data when it's for the public good.
[15:20.920 --> 15:32.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, when you go into a bar or a nightclub, someplace for grown-ups, everyone's checked at the door to make sure that they're old enough to be, you know, drinking what they serve and dancing and doing whatever the heck else you want to do in one of those places.
[15:33.620 --> 15:38.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, you're supposed to be able to go in, secure in the knowledge that everyone else is a grown-up like you.
[15:39.720 --> 15:42.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, that leads to whatever it leads to.
[15:42.480 --> 15:51.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, if I'm going into a restaurant, I don't mind giving up my name at the door because, yeah, I am going to be paying with a card that has my name on it, most likely.
[15:52.060 --> 15:58.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: But even if not, I like going in and being able to assume that everyone around me has been vaccinated.
[15:58.520 --> 16:00.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Everyone around me is doing the right thing.
[16:00.520 --> 16:04.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: Everyone around me is not putting the people around them at unnecessary risk.
[16:04.680 --> 16:08.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, if you're into total anonymity, maybe eating out now is not for you.
[16:08.620 --> 16:11.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, I mean, look, okay, I see what you're trying to say here, okay?
[16:11.760 --> 16:13.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, you know, it's a stepping stone.
[16:13.800 --> 16:17.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's basically you're giving away a little bit of your identity every single time.
[16:17.480 --> 16:23.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: When you go to the restaurant and they ask you to pay for how many and they ask you for a name, you don't give them your name.
[16:23.060 --> 16:24.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: You give them somebody else's name.
[16:24.540 --> 16:28.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: You hold on to that anonymity as tightly as you possibly can.
[16:28.880 --> 16:31.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then you just don't give away anything.
[16:31.620 --> 16:34.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm trying really hard here, but it's so difficult.
[16:34.340 --> 16:35.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, Gila, please help.
[16:35.280 --> 16:41.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, I'm willing to say that this is actually almost more anonymous because here's what I'm thinking.
[16:42.100 --> 16:52.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: We went to a Panera Bread a couple of months ago, and they not only asked for my name when I got there, they asked for my phone number and my email address.
[16:52.740 --> 16:53.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[16:53.140 --> 16:55.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: For contact tracing purposes.
[16:56.560 --> 16:56.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: Huh.
[16:56.780 --> 16:57.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: This, yeah.
[16:59.040 --> 17:02.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: This way, if all I have to say is what my name is, that's fine.
[17:02.760 --> 17:09.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Also, I never give my name at restaurants, but that's because my name is very hard to pronounce, so I usually give the name of whoever I'm with.
[17:10.200 --> 17:12.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, RadioShack was way ahead of its time.
[17:12.600 --> 17:15.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: They were doing contact tracing back in the 70s.
[17:16.480 --> 17:16.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Boy.
[17:17.160 --> 17:18.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that is something.
[17:18.560 --> 17:19.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: That is amazing.
[17:19.460 --> 17:19.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, Rob.
[17:20.820 --> 17:30.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: But when you have your dinner, you know, if you're that concerned about your anonymity, it's really hard to, you know, eat your dinner and have a good time when you're wearing your plastic V for Vendetta Guy Fox mask.
[17:30.940 --> 17:34.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's just, it makes a big mess, and, you know, it's not good for anyone around you.
[17:34.720 --> 17:55.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: I just think it's not nearly the scandal, and in fact, these moments are reminders to us all that we're not necessarily living through sort of regular circumstances, and to that end, I just would say, you know, this is a real crisis, a worldwide crisis,
[17:55.060 --> 18:26.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: and, you know, the hasty moves to reopen in many ways, some of the guidelines being so varied and disparate around the country, and the real deluge of misinformation that this inoculation program has been met with, I mean, real headwinds in getting that critical group of hesitant folks,
[18:27.020 --> 18:35.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: folks that are being, you know, submitted to all kinds of postings and opinions and pundits.
[18:35.520 --> 18:40.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Some of that's changed in the last couple weeks, just because the numbers are so crazy now.
[18:40.380 --> 18:48.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, we're talking doubling, and projections of 100,000 new cases, I think, is where we're hoping to level off with this wave.
[18:48.980 --> 19:02.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: So let's, let's maybe, you know, I guess, temper our expectations that things have been normal now, and this is all so unusual.
[19:02.740 --> 19:07.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, this is ongoing, it's been ongoing, and this was the warning.
[19:07.260 --> 19:13.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: We will have to take steps in the reverse if things don't continue in the right way.
[19:13.440 --> 19:18.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: And right now, I guess, in a lot of hotspots, the numbers don't look right.
[19:18.480 --> 19:23.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: We talked about this with... Well, I think a lot of people are having the crap scared out of them right now, because they see these numbers.
[19:23.620 --> 19:36.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: They see that things are going badly and deteriorating rapidly in those places where people... You say hesitant, I say obstinate, because hesitancy means you can be convinced with information.
[19:36.860 --> 19:40.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: And obstinance is when you just refuse to listen to the information.
[19:40.480 --> 19:43.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's what we're seeing on a wide scale.
[19:43.620 --> 19:48.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, it'd be very interesting to figure out just how we got there in the first place.
[19:48.700 --> 19:49.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is it all Trump?
[19:49.600 --> 19:50.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is it all politics?
[19:50.620 --> 19:53.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is it all left versus right?
[19:53.040 --> 19:54.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or is it something else?
[19:54.820 --> 20:06.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, we really need to do some serious psychological studies as to how we got into this position in the first place of literally arguing with people who don't want the virus to go away.
[20:06.980 --> 20:13.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: And there's no other way to say it, because there is one way to get it to go away, and that's to get a vaccination against it.
[20:14.060 --> 20:15.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't go away on its own.
[20:15.240 --> 20:23.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: It will never go away if you don't get vaccinated, unless something really horrible happens and there's no more life forms left to infect.
[20:24.480 --> 20:25.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, we're a hacker show.
[20:25.680 --> 20:31.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: We deal with issues of privacy and anonymity and questioning authority all the time.
[20:32.620 --> 20:38.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, we've been lectured by many people saying, how can you say things like this?
[20:38.260 --> 20:39.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: How can you give away your privacy?
[20:39.840 --> 20:51.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: As you can see, I'm really struggling to figure out how something as simple as showing proof of vaccination going into a gym or a restaurant in any way is a violation of your privacy.
[20:52.040 --> 20:55.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: It gives away any kind of location information.
[20:55.660 --> 21:04.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, the smartphone app, I could see that being used as a tracking device if we allow it to be.
[21:04.680 --> 21:08.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: If someone simply takes a look at it, that's harmless.
[21:08.520 --> 21:12.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: If they scan it, enter it into a database, yeah, that's something to be concerned with.
[21:12.540 --> 21:13.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not seeing that happening.
[21:13.840 --> 21:15.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of course, I haven't used it a single time.
[21:15.800 --> 21:18.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: But these are the things to look out for.
[21:18.620 --> 21:26.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: But we also, you know, we can't be so paranoid that we forget about common sense.
[21:26.320 --> 21:29.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: We forget about things that actually are there to help us.
[21:29.700 --> 21:33.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: And this kind of thing, it's there for our own good.
[21:34.160 --> 21:34.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[21:34.540 --> 21:39.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I think one of the other reasons you hear a lot from people that are interviewed about this is a certain toughness.
[21:39.280 --> 21:51.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: They feel they are tough enough to withstand coming down with this disease or that they won't be infected in the first place because they are so tough and so forth.
[21:52.060 --> 21:58.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I really would like to see that same toughness face a simple shot.
[21:58.600 --> 21:59.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know what I'm saying?
[21:59.940 --> 22:02.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think if you're that tough, you can handle a vaccine.
[22:02.640 --> 22:03.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: Exactly.
[22:03.300 --> 22:11.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a lot of really bizarre, paradoxical kind of logic floating around and it really needs to be kind of met with a little bit more common sense.
[22:12.840 --> 22:13.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[22:13.560 --> 22:14.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's move on.
[22:15.640 --> 22:19.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Folks, if you haven't gotten the vaccine yet, please, please go out and get it.
[22:19.160 --> 22:22.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: No matter where you are, our future depends on it.
[22:22.460 --> 22:23.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: It really does.
[22:23.420 --> 22:24.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's super important.
[22:27.200 --> 22:32.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: So this was nothing compared to what I was battling over the past, well, actually quite a while.
[22:32.840 --> 22:35.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've been dealing with Amazon.
[22:35.160 --> 22:36.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: You might have heard of them.
[22:37.240 --> 22:41.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Lots and lots of fun whenever you have to try and fix a problem.
[22:41.860 --> 22:51.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've been involved in this project over the past year or so where I'm trying to share family slides that were basically on slide carousels for the last few decades.
[22:51.060 --> 22:53.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm trying to share them with other family members.
[22:53.820 --> 23:06.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: And so I figured it would be a great idea to simply digitize all these and make them into TIFF files and then upload them someplace where I could share them with other members of the family.
[23:06.580 --> 23:11.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I found something called Amazon Photos, which seemed to fit the bill pretty nicely.
[23:11.700 --> 23:27.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: It allowed you to basically upload pictures and view them on, say, if you have an Alexa show, one of those Alexa devices that has a video screen, you could actually have it share with that device and you could see your pictures.
[23:28.060 --> 23:29.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that worked great.
[23:29.480 --> 23:32.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I started using that a bunch of months ago and it was amazing.
[23:32.480 --> 23:41.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was thinking, hey, I could just share this Amazon photo collection with various relatives and they could just see the photos show up on their Alexa show device.
[23:41.740 --> 23:42.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's perfect.
[23:42.800 --> 23:50.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: But then one day the people at Alexa or Alexa show or whatever department it was decided it's time for an upgrade.
[23:50.880 --> 23:52.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: They upgraded their software.
[23:52.200 --> 23:54.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: And when they did that, they broke everything.
[23:55.480 --> 23:58.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: It certainly did not work as it used to work.
[23:59.180 --> 24:14.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, and where I could see, um, uh, photos before, uh, basically staying on the screen for about a minute, them going on to the next one, kind of a nice way to just see various memories of the family go by throughout the course of a day.
[24:14.480 --> 24:17.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: They decided, no, a minute, nobody wants that.
[24:17.340 --> 24:19.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, we're going to make it three seconds.
[24:20.260 --> 24:21.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Three seconds is all you got.
[24:21.780 --> 24:25.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, and if you, if the slow setting, okay, the slow setting will be 10 seconds.
[24:26.620 --> 24:31.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: So right away, it's like rapid fire, uh, um, picture changing.
[24:32.000 --> 24:33.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, didn't like that very much.
[24:33.920 --> 24:46.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Then what they also did was they decided that the clock, which was mandatory on the Alexa show devices, um, had to be increased in size so that people could see it because obviously that's what you have it for.
[24:46.400 --> 24:47.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: So you can see the damn clock.
[24:47.660 --> 24:54.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: So now the clock takes up 25% of the screen space, obliterating a good part of the photos that you're trying to share.
[24:55.180 --> 25:00.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, there are people all over the place complaining about these things saying, this is awful.
[25:00.540 --> 25:01.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is not what we want.
[25:01.760 --> 25:13.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, and if you look at the, um, uh, the, the message boards, the feedback that they have on Amazon, you see hundreds of people, literally hundreds of people complaining about the same thing and no response at all.
[25:14.040 --> 25:14.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's not just Amazon.
[25:14.940 --> 25:19.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's all of these massive companies that have what they consider to be support.
[25:19.400 --> 25:23.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: You, you complain on, on, uh, Twitter, you know, uh, you tag them on Twitter.
[25:23.180 --> 25:27.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: You instantly get a reply from somebody saying, Oh, I'm so sorry you had this problem.
[25:27.400 --> 25:30.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Please contact us and direct message or we'll reach out to you.
[25:31.220 --> 25:40.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then you go through this, this song and dance for a few days where it seems like they're trying to help you, but then you wind up at a dead end and right back where you started because you bitched them out again on Twitter.
[25:40.980 --> 25:48.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then somebody else comes and says the same thing and invites you to a, another useless, uh, banter fest that, uh, goes absolutely nowhere.
[25:48.960 --> 26:02.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, um, Oh, and I didn't mention the other, uh, new feature that the Alexa show had where instead of going through all your pictures, it goes through three and then stops for an hour and goes through another three stops for another hour.
[26:02.620 --> 26:05.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: And just, it's, it's, it became completely useless.
[26:05.580 --> 26:06.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: I took it off that device.
[26:07.220 --> 26:12.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was unusable, but I figured, you know, all right, I've uploaded all these things to Amazon.
[26:12.720 --> 26:19.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can at least share a link with people, uh, so that they can see the photos on their, on their, uh, computers.
[26:20.380 --> 26:22.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I thought, yeah, that's a, that's, that's a pretty good idea.
[26:22.940 --> 26:24.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I started looking through them myself.
[26:25.160 --> 26:29.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, I noticed that, um, I was seeing a couple of pictures more than once.
[26:29.980 --> 26:41.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know how, when you're, um, I don't use Facebook very often, but I, you know, sometimes I, I use Facebook and I scroll through, um, friends for instance, and it doesn't seem to be a top to bottom list.
[26:41.240 --> 26:52.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: It seems like they repeat, like you, you're scrolling down and then all of a sudden you see somebody that you saw before because there's some kind of a, a weird loop that they've got going on or, or, or maybe it's some sort of a setting.
[26:52.820 --> 26:54.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Similar thing on Amazon photos.
[26:54.640 --> 26:58.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was going through all the photos and I just noticing some of them were showing up more than once.
[26:59.020 --> 27:01.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: So that was, uh, a little bit disturbing.
[27:02.300 --> 27:12.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, and then I, I, I downloaded, um, uh, a bunch of, um, what I call albums because, um, I, I made each slide carousel into an album.
[27:13.240 --> 27:16.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, I figured I keep the order that they were uploaded in.
[27:16.680 --> 27:21.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I noticed when I downloaded them that, Hey, I was getting duplicates when I downloaded them too.
[27:21.440 --> 27:22.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it wasn't my imagination.
[27:22.760 --> 27:24.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: It wasn't just on the screen.
[27:24.120 --> 27:26.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: They actually, for some reason were duplicates.
[27:26.200 --> 27:31.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: I figured I must've done something wrong when I was trying to, uh, get the Alexa show to read it properly.
[27:32.440 --> 27:38.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, maybe I, I copied, um, um, one of the, um, albums over and there are more.
[27:38.200 --> 27:39.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I, I deleted everything.
[27:39.940 --> 27:42.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then I found out that deleting everything doesn't delete everything.
[27:42.940 --> 27:48.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: It puts it in the trash where it's not deleted and you have to say delete forever and wait for that to happen.
[27:48.940 --> 28:00.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Did that uploaded everything all over again, took about half a day and then, uh, decided to try and download the entire thing as, as one massive zip file.
[28:00.420 --> 28:05.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: I had 1,644, uh, different slides that were digitized.
[28:05.200 --> 28:14.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: And when I downloaded it, I noticed after merging all the different zip files, cause it made something like a 12 zip files, uh, for downloading.
[28:14.820 --> 28:19.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: When I merged them, I had file conflicts because there were duplicates again.
[28:19.820 --> 28:26.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: And when I got rid of the duplicates, I only had 1,253 pictures instead of 1,644.
[28:26.660 --> 28:31.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: It literally erased pictures and replaced them with duplicates.
[28:31.800 --> 28:36.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, you know, at this point I'm on Twitter complaining about Amazon photos.
[28:37.100 --> 28:37.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're reaching out to me.
[28:38.020 --> 28:38.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm talking to them.
[28:38.960 --> 28:46.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: And one person said, yeah, you know, this is a known problem, but it won't happen if you get the app instead of the, uh, the website.
[28:47.060 --> 28:52.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: So they, they gave me a link to the app, uh, which, uh, didn't work because it wouldn't install.
[28:52.820 --> 29:07.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I had to go to another machine and then I had to, of course, copy all the pictures over to that machine, delete all the pictures from Amazon, delete them forever, upload them again to Amazon and go through this entire thing, which took a day and a half only to find out that the exact same thing happened,
[29:07.620 --> 29:11.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: which is exactly what I expected would happen because how could the app make any difference?
[29:11.440 --> 29:14.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's all on their end, but they will never admit this.
[29:15.100 --> 29:26.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I'd literally spent the entire weekend trying to solve their problems for them and not getting anywhere, not having them in any way acknowledge that this is a problem with their system.
[29:26.820 --> 29:28.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: They told me, uh, clear your history.
[29:29.320 --> 29:31.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: They told me to reboot my computer.
[29:32.260 --> 29:34.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think I'm surprised they didn't tell me to unplug it.
[29:34.600 --> 29:36.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Didn't you do something with cookies too?
[29:36.200 --> 29:39.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: They said to, to, uh, clear my, my, my cookies and my cash and all that.
[29:40.160 --> 29:41.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, I was using different browsers.
[29:42.120 --> 29:43.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: I know that wasn't the problem.
[29:43.900 --> 29:47.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: And nine times out of 10, the consumer knows what they're doing.
[29:48.240 --> 29:54.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, you know, we, we, we, we have this impression that it's always the customer that messes something up.
[29:54.380 --> 30:05.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, sometimes it's the mega corporations that mess something up and they don't care enough to fix it because every problem I've had, I've noticed many, many people complaining about similar or the same things.
[30:05.660 --> 30:08.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: And always it's the same response.
[30:08.780 --> 30:10.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Nothing, no response at all.
[30:10.880 --> 30:12.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't get fixed.
[30:12.240 --> 30:16.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: The dialogue gets closed and you have to move on to something else.
[30:16.780 --> 30:19.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, uh, I moved on to Google photos.
[30:20.980 --> 30:26.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Having some problems with that in that I can't seem to make zip files for no reason at all.
[30:26.200 --> 30:27.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: It just doesn't do it.
[30:27.100 --> 30:30.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, it's very hard to share with people who aren't using Gmail.
[30:30.400 --> 30:33.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: They want to basically bring everybody in.
[30:33.760 --> 30:35.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, but at least they can count.
[30:36.140 --> 30:42.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: At least, at least I'm able to have the same number of photos coming out as they were going in.
[30:42.600 --> 30:48.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think that's a very important part of archiving photos is to have the same number coming out as, as going in.
[30:49.340 --> 30:55.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: So that was, uh, my little, um, adventure in, uh, corporate photo archiving land.
[30:55.780 --> 30:57.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't recommend it.
[30:57.480 --> 31:01.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: I, I think probably the best thing to do is put everything on a flash drive and send it in the mail.
[31:04.280 --> 31:10.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, you, you could definitely do that sort of thing because digital photo frames are a thing that have existed for a long time.
[31:10.320 --> 31:11.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're a little screen.
[31:11.200 --> 31:15.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: You load pictures on it with a USB or, you know, stick a flash drive in it or whatever.
[31:15.300 --> 31:18.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're very inexpensive and they do what you want to do.
[31:18.760 --> 31:23.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can configure the, uh, the display times and, you know, the cycling and all that good stuff.
[31:24.120 --> 31:26.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: And yeah, they are very cheap devices.
[31:26.600 --> 31:37.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's funny that Amazon's, uh, you know, Echo device that, uh, has, you know, Amazon's zillion dollar infrastructure behind it, uh, gives a fun, gives a measurably worse experience.
[31:38.400 --> 31:44.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, and also it's, it's cloud-based and you don't actually control how these things work or where they go.
[31:44.340 --> 31:46.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, it's, you know, it's the crap version.
[31:46.700 --> 31:47.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's the cloud version.
[31:47.540 --> 32:03.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: And Emmanuel, I, I happen to know that you have access to your own machines that are on the Internet that you could upload things to and, uh, and share without involving, uh, you know, advertising companies that, uh, that, uh, you know, sell your data to increase shareholder value.
[32:03.400 --> 32:09.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, yeah, but Rob, Rob, uh, you know, try telling an elderly relative how to use a Linux-based machine.
[32:09.520 --> 32:10.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, you need the interface.
[32:11.420 --> 32:15.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: And one thing that both Amazon and Google have are, are decent interfaces.
[32:15.720 --> 32:23.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: The problem is they just don't work properly and you wind up losing things as a result of that because I guess they assume people really don't care all that much.
[32:23.340 --> 32:24.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is, this is where I left it.
[32:24.860 --> 32:27.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is the last message I, I sent to them.
[32:27.620 --> 32:30.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, we're just going around and around here.
[32:30.280 --> 32:33.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: The, the rep I just retold the whole story to has no solutions.
[32:34.200 --> 32:34.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Seriously.
[32:34.740 --> 32:40.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is about having numbers add up on my screen where I uploaded 1,644 photos.
[32:41.100 --> 32:44.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: It says I have 1.6 K items, which is correct.
[32:44.880 --> 32:48.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: But when I select all, it shows 1,253.
[32:49.400 --> 32:50.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Please solve that.
[32:51.720 --> 32:52.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they're working on it.
[32:52.980 --> 32:55.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, they're not working on it, but nobody's gotten back to me.
[32:55.640 --> 32:56.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Nobody ever will.
[32:56.900 --> 33:02.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's great to be able to do these things yourself and we do many of these things ourselves.
[33:02.700 --> 33:06.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: We run our own mail servers, run our own websites and it's great.
[33:06.260 --> 33:15.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: But something like this, where you want to be able to selectively, uh, um, pick photos and, and, and download the right ones, uh, and be able to browse through them.
[33:16.100 --> 33:17.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's, it's definitely doable.
[33:17.440 --> 33:18.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's, it's work.
[33:18.560 --> 33:25.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I figure, you know, if there's, if there's a service out there and you're already paying for it through another service, it should work.
[33:25.280 --> 33:27.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm just here to say that doesn't work.
[33:27.860 --> 33:31.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we need more human attention to these things.
[33:31.560 --> 33:35.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: I am so sick of talking to bots that you realize you're not talking to a human.
[33:36.400 --> 33:47.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, and, and sometimes when you seem to be talking to a human in some other part of the world, it sounds like they care, but they always wind up getting, and I, I, I'm generalizing when I say always, because I have had good experiences.
[33:47.880 --> 33:51.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: They get to a point where they just can't do any more.
[33:51.440 --> 33:54.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: They can't get past their own, uh, end if loops.
[33:54.960 --> 33:58.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, it's just frustrating because we could be doing so much better.
[34:00.500 --> 34:19.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think the, the, this particular problem isn't getting as much attention because both of the larger entities you name that have substantial network capacity and, um, and other services and, uh, social, uh, communications and stuff, um, in their various platforms,
[34:19.920 --> 34:27.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: they're more than capable of doing it, but their profit motive, they're, they're so obsessed with monetizing everything.
[34:27.220 --> 34:34.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: And your private photos shared with your private family doesn't involve ads.
[34:34.280 --> 34:47.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: It doesn't involve, I mean, all of what you just said doesn't really even speak to them holding your, your art hostage and mining all of the visual information, their facial recognition.
[34:47.560 --> 34:51.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's so many things they could be doing with your stuff that you're not even questioning.
[34:51.580 --> 35:01.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: You just want basic functionality, but they can't, uh, uh, transparently, um, sell you anything.
[35:01.040 --> 35:02.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: So why care?
[35:02.620 --> 35:05.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's why I don't think there isn't a team.
[35:05.740 --> 35:16.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: But the other thing is there's this trend of just making sales, making a product that looks good enough to sell and then hitting those sales numbers.
[35:16.400 --> 35:23.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's no, uh, accountability or recourse or, um, guarantee or anything along with it.
[35:23.920 --> 35:25.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's just, Oh, we released this new thing.
[35:26.040 --> 35:35.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: We, and, and it's more for them at this point, because I feel like they're already wielding the control with a lot of the hardware devices, home assistants and so forth.
[35:36.620 --> 35:41.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: They can reprogram them and control them infinitely more than the average consumer.
[35:41.760 --> 35:43.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're not showing you how to customize it.
[35:43.540 --> 35:49.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're not showing you how to sideload software or to connect it to your own cloud server to, to manage it the way you want.
[35:50.120 --> 35:53.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, they're not actually giving you any control.
[35:53.800 --> 35:56.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: And in fact, just the opposite.
[35:56.700 --> 36:01.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: You've the veneer of a product that does something that you want, but it absolutely doesn't.
[36:01.900 --> 36:02.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[36:02.560 --> 36:06.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think that's the key in that they're not giving you any ability to make changes yourself.
[36:06.800 --> 36:11.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: You have to rely on them and they make an upgrade or a software revision.
[36:11.480 --> 36:13.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: You have to live with the decisions they make.
[36:13.600 --> 36:16.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: For instance, the, the 10 second maximum showing of a, of a picture.
[36:17.180 --> 36:20.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, if you're, if you're sharing your photos on Alexa show that, that is ridiculous.
[36:20.720 --> 36:25.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: You should be able to, to, uh, enter the values that you want to live with.
[36:25.560 --> 36:26.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: You shouldn't have to, everyone is different.
[36:27.340 --> 36:31.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, some people don't want a clock to take up 25% of their screen.
[36:31.400 --> 36:32.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Some people don't want a clock at all.
[36:32.700 --> 36:34.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Some people want a clock that looks different.
[36:35.020 --> 36:38.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, you should have, it's not like the technology doesn't exist.
[36:38.440 --> 36:41.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's just the will has to exist to allow people to do this.
[36:41.600 --> 36:47.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: When you think that the, the customers are all stupid and all the same and they can't make these decisions for themselves.
[36:47.140 --> 36:47.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I've seen this.
[36:47.980 --> 36:52.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've, I, I know people who think this way of the populace and I don't want to be like that.
[36:52.580 --> 36:59.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't want to be in that, that class of, of, of people that thinks they're above it all and that everybody else is just an ignorant end user.
[36:59.360 --> 37:03.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, these are the people that make all of this possible.
[37:03.700 --> 37:10.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: The people out there who consume and who basically use all of these things that are invented and distributed.
[37:10.740 --> 37:11.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: We need to listen to them.
[37:12.120 --> 37:17.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: We need to, uh, figure out ways that everybody can, can manipulate technology to their liking.
[37:17.920 --> 37:22.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: And this is very much in line with what we say all the time about old and new technology.
[37:22.680 --> 37:25.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Old technology shouldn't just be cast aside.
[37:25.260 --> 37:34.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: We should figure out ways to adapt it, to learn from it, uh, to build things that are better and, um, and, and, and know how it all basically comes about.
[37:35.640 --> 37:47.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think it also has a, a little attribute of homogenization because I mean, who really wants to go see someone else's photo frame look exactly like the photo frame they have in their own home.
[37:47.940 --> 37:51.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: So it's, it's conditioning people in this strange way.
[37:51.620 --> 38:03.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think probably a parallel, uh, topic to kind of conform and just accept this, this conditioned environment or user interface or whatever it is that they're presenting.
[38:03.460 --> 38:11.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, and Rob, just to speak to your point about the photo frames, uh, I, you know, in, in, uh, my desperation trying to get the Alexa show to work, I bought a photo frame.
[38:11.460 --> 38:22.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: In fact, I even bought another Alexa show because I heard Alexa show eights, uh, were basically intolerant of certain, uh, configurations, but Alexa show fives weren't.
[38:22.060 --> 38:24.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I bought an Alexa show five and it's exactly the same.
[38:24.620 --> 38:31.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I just realized only Amazon can get me to buy more of their inferior products to try and fix their problems.
[38:31.500 --> 38:38.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: But anyway, I, I, I bought the, uh, the photo frame and I realized after buying it, that it doesn't read TIFFs, doesn't read TIFF files.
[38:38.960 --> 38:45.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: So then I had to convert all 1,644 of my damn photos into a format that it liked.
[38:45.540 --> 38:53.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then once I did that and copied it over, um, I didn't have any control over what displayed when you just had to pretty much wait, which, you know, it was fine.
[38:53.740 --> 39:04.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's what it is, but, um, it's not what I'm trying to do here where people can pick photos and download them and, and, uh, save them to their own computers and, and look at them whenever they feel like.
[39:06.460 --> 39:06.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[39:06.960 --> 39:08.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, you make, you make a very good point about that.
[39:09.060 --> 39:16.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: And also I think, uh, I think it's time we went back, you know, we, as in like general users of the Internet and you're right, we do need usable interfaces.
[39:17.220 --> 39:21.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: We need links that we can send to non-technical people in our families or circles or whatever.
[39:21.720 --> 39:27.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, uh, there are companies out there whose business is images and hosting images and sharing images.
[39:27.860 --> 39:42.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they are, and, uh, there are companies out there who do this, who are not subsidiaries of Amazon or Google or another massive mega corporation that just, you know, has a little image service as a throwaway loss leader to pull you in and, uh, do their main business with you.
[39:42.400 --> 39:57.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, and I, I think maybe we, maybe we in general have lost sight of the value in supporting maybe a smaller site somewhere that, uh, that has, you know, maybe a free plan and maybe a pro plan that you can throw a little money at that, uh, you can use to actually functionally,
[39:58.340 --> 39:59.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: you know, share images.
[40:00.000 --> 40:01.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, Flickr is back again.
[40:01.580 --> 40:03.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, I'm seeing more and more people using that.
[40:03.300 --> 40:06.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've been looking into these options, um, to share my own images.
[40:06.760 --> 40:09.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Flickr is considered smaller and independent.
[40:09.680 --> 40:13.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, they, well, they're, they're no longer owned by, uh, Yahoo, Verizon, uh, that sort of thing.
[40:13.260 --> 40:16.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're now owned by a company called Smug Mug whose business is images.
[40:16.580 --> 40:20.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're not, uh, you know, they're not a Google level, uh, mega corporation.
[40:20.520 --> 40:25.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: They, they're just there now to provide images and host images and, uh, let you share the images.
[40:26.000 --> 40:34.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, it seems, it seems that when a site does one thing well, maybe it's worth using for that rather than a site that does a zillion things badly so they can sell you ads.
[40:34.280 --> 40:35.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, you definitely have a great point there.
[40:35.900 --> 40:43.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I, I recall so many instances like the company that makes our, our robots for, for, uh, for printing discs, uh, Primera, Primera.
[40:44.140 --> 40:44.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[40:44.400 --> 40:45.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's a great example.
[40:45.760 --> 40:53.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if they still make robots, but when we, when we made DVDs all the time, that's the company that we went through and we'd have problems occasionally.
[40:53.400 --> 41:03.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: And whenever we contacted them, we always got a human being that worked to fix the problem and always did always was able to small company, but they, they cared.
[41:03.540 --> 41:06.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: And those are the kinds of people that you should be supporting.
[41:06.700 --> 41:15.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, the, the, the small companies with actual human beings that will respond to problems and that care that want to fix the problems because they want to make something as good as possible.
[41:15.540 --> 41:25.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: They, they, they, they don't, you know, transfer you to some, some, uh, uh, you know, artificial intelligence bot somewhere, uh, to try and, and, and eliminate you from their queue.
[41:25.900 --> 41:31.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, they actually are in the same game as you are trying to try to make something work as, as much as possible.
[41:32.040 --> 41:33.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have funny stories about that.
[41:34.240 --> 41:43.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, there's a, a small repair shop too, that also does, um, replaces and repairs and refurbishes this particular robot.
[41:43.220 --> 41:46.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the guy, the guy who runs it is a preacher actually.
[41:46.360 --> 41:53.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: So he's, you know, probably makes his like, you know, evangelizing discs or whatever, but he's really into fixing these things and does a great job.
[41:53.920 --> 41:54.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[41:54.120 --> 42:01.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: You find somebody who, who is just impassioned about a particular model of a particular machine and knows everything about it.
[42:01.580 --> 42:03.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: That is the person to go to.
[42:03.360 --> 42:04.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: You don't throw it out.
[42:04.640 --> 42:14.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: You, you get somebody who, who knows how to take care of it and appreciates it because, you know, some of these, uh, especially, you know, older, uh, uh, machines are, are built to last.
[42:15.040 --> 42:16.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, it's just incredible.
[42:16.500 --> 42:20.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's a real workhorse that that robot that we, we sent out to be repaired by the preacher.
[42:20.480 --> 42:20.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[42:20.680 --> 42:22.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: That, that, that was, that was quite a story.
[42:22.660 --> 42:27.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, Hey, uh, let's, um, move on to a couple other things because I've just been bitching about one thing or another this whole hour.
[42:28.300 --> 42:31.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, here's something to be happy about in, uh, Australia.
[42:31.980 --> 42:32.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is this Australia?
[42:32.920 --> 42:37.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: It looks like, um, phone calls, uh, are going to be free from payphones.
[42:37.900 --> 42:39.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Actually, no, there's a, there's a caveat here.
[42:40.140 --> 42:41.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, call.
[42:41.900 --> 42:42.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[42:42.420 --> 42:45.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Local and national and calls to mobile phones.
[42:45.060 --> 42:47.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: So they won't be calling the United States.
[42:47.260 --> 42:55.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: International calls are not included there, but the phone company announced that, um, uh, these, uh, calls from a Telstra payphone.
[42:55.200 --> 42:58.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Telstra is a, is a phone company down there would no longer incur a charge.
[42:58.700 --> 43:11.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: That means the days are scrambling for 50 cents in change, uh, which apparently is what it costs in Australia, 50 Australian cents, uh, or devising a code involving a predetermined number of rings or effectively over.
[43:11.580 --> 43:12.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: They still do that.
[43:12.960 --> 43:13.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[43:13.760 --> 43:22.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, my, my, my grandparents used to do that, you know, to, to let us know when they got home safely after visiting, they'd ring twice.
[43:23.240 --> 43:24.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Was that phone fraud?
[43:24.460 --> 43:24.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[43:25.260 --> 43:27.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, the phone company would probably say it was Alex.
[43:27.340 --> 43:27.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: What do you say?
[43:28.880 --> 43:33.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, my, uh, my parents, uh, and relatives used to do something similar.
[43:33.940 --> 43:35.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: They would make a collect call.
[43:35.800 --> 43:42.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: So if we took a flight, you know, to Florida or something, you had to come back, you know, you didn't want to make a long distance phone call from the airport.
[43:43.060 --> 43:45.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: It would have been, you know, extortionately expensive.
[43:45.800 --> 43:56.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: So we used to make a collect call home to my father or mother or whatever from Alice Fine, which is, you know, like all is fine.
[43:56.880 --> 43:57.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: I get it.
[43:57.320 --> 43:57.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[43:58.060 --> 43:58.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yep.
[43:58.520 --> 43:58.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yep.
[43:59.080 --> 43:59.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: Alice Fine.
[44:00.080 --> 44:03.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: This was, you know, my, my mother's innovation, I think in, in phone phreaking.
[44:04.880 --> 44:06.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's, uh, that's something.
[44:06.640 --> 44:06.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[44:07.060 --> 44:09.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then that's a, that's a level of fraud above what my grandparents were doing.
[44:11.000 --> 44:11.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's true.
[44:12.080 --> 44:18.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: But you know, when I started to learn Italian in high school too, I was so curious about, you know, uh, other cultures and speaking to people.
[44:18.900 --> 44:28.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: I used to, I used to just make random collect calls to cities in Italy just to hear people answer the phone and, and have the, and hear the, the cadence of their speech.
[44:28.260 --> 44:29.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: It was, it was very similar to me.
[44:30.100 --> 44:32.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, they did very, very, uh, fascinating me rather.
[44:32.720 --> 44:50.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: And that, you know, but speaking of Australia and free phone calls, um, one of the things I have distinct memories of from probably 1993 or 1994 at the 2600 meetings in New York that used to be around the huge lobby of payphones in the city group building was somebody,
[44:51.280 --> 44:56.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: a phone phreak from Australia calling up the payphones whose name was phony.
[44:57.140 --> 45:00.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: If I recall correctly, that was his, his, his phone free candle.
[45:00.440 --> 45:05.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: And he used to use a device, uh, that would shock the payphones in Australia.
[45:05.860 --> 45:13.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: It would administer some kind of electrical shock to the payphones, uh, that would then allow him to call around the world at his convenience.
[45:13.520 --> 45:14.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: It was, it was always fascinating to me.
[45:14.980 --> 45:17.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: And he called almost every single meeting.
[45:17.540 --> 45:19.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: There were always people on the phone with phony.
[45:19.700 --> 45:21.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: You see, that's, that's the difference.
[45:21.260 --> 45:23.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's the difference between America and Australia.
[45:23.520 --> 45:29.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: We just sent little, little beeps and tones, but they actually send electrical shocks to, uh, get their phones.
[45:30.040 --> 45:32.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: Shock treatment of a, of a, of a payphone.
[45:32.400 --> 45:34.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, you know, I think... Did you have a message for phony?
[45:34.720 --> 45:40.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I think phony, you know, look, he's, he's, I think his wish is half true here, right?
[45:40.180 --> 45:48.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: He can go to a payphone and, and call up his friends, but he's still going to have to administer shock treatment to, to the payphones, I think, to call New York.
[45:48.760 --> 45:51.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: The, uh, uh, Telstra CEO, his name is Andy Penn.
[45:52.500 --> 45:54.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, it says, it says in parentheses, he's phony.
[45:55.340 --> 45:56.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's his nickname.
[45:56.500 --> 46:01.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, said the move to make every payphone free would cost the company around $5 million a year.
[46:01.680 --> 46:07.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just watching over the last 18 months, how they've played a role in emergency situations through the brush fires and keeping people connected.
[46:08.260 --> 46:10.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: And particularly those that are vulnerable and disadvantaged.
[46:10.520 --> 46:13.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just thought we've got to a point where we can make this free.
[46:13.860 --> 46:16.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not a big deal for Telstra.
[46:16.600 --> 46:19.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Andy Penn is now my favorite CEO in the world.
[46:19.580 --> 46:19.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[46:19.940 --> 46:21.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, seriously, this guy gets it.
[46:21.440 --> 46:32.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not only is he being generous and, and giving something for free, they could easily charge for, but he's recognizing the importance of payphones and how they played an instrumental role in emergencies.
[46:32.560 --> 46:37.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: When you didn't have cell service, when there was, uh, uh, an important message that needed to be gotten out.
[46:37.660 --> 46:39.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: You have to have these devices.
[46:39.080 --> 46:43.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a perfect example of old technology existing to back up the new technology.
[46:43.720 --> 46:46.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: So they have to be referred to as public phones then, right?
[46:46.680 --> 46:46.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Of course.
[46:47.180 --> 46:48.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because they're not pay for anymore.
[46:48.500 --> 46:49.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: Like they're not payphones.
[46:49.580 --> 46:53.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're just simply public phones or phones for the public.
[46:53.620 --> 46:53.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[46:53.760 --> 46:55.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, they always called them public phones, but I guess, yeah.
[46:55.900 --> 46:59.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: But now they're only exclusively public phones.
[46:59.440 --> 47:00.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Unless you're calling international.
[47:00.660 --> 47:01.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not sure how that works.
[47:02.120 --> 47:02.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you know what?
[47:02.720 --> 47:04.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's worth a trip to Australia to find out.
[47:04.840 --> 47:06.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: And Andy Penn, you just convinced me.
[47:06.880 --> 47:07.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you.
[47:07.560 --> 47:08.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you for that.
[47:08.440 --> 47:13.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's interesting if other systems follow that, you know, if other, uh, carriers and other places realize the benefit.
[47:14.420 --> 47:16.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, I want to share something with, uh, with people.
[47:16.580 --> 47:29.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: We've been doing this project now for the last few weeks where we release, um, uh, lost audio from our archives, um, that we have been, um, uh, collating over the past, uh, past year or so, about the same amount of time in collating photos.
[47:29.680 --> 47:32.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, but this went a lot more smoothly because we're doing it ourselves.
[47:33.180 --> 47:36.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, every day we release something new.
[47:36.900 --> 47:39.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, I believe this was yesterday.
[47:39.540 --> 47:44.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: We released an episode of a show that I used to do called News of the World.
[47:44.580 --> 47:47.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: That was a shortwave, uh, appreciation program.
[47:47.880 --> 47:57.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: We basically would, uh, listen to shortwave radio stations in English and, um, and, and broadcast some of the newscasts that came from different countries.
[47:57.380 --> 48:02.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: I like it because you also gave some background and a little bit of insight into some of the on-air stuff that you're hearing.
[48:03.060 --> 48:03.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[48:03.220 --> 48:04.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: You always got to explain things.
[48:04.360 --> 48:04.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's important.
[48:04.880 --> 48:06.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, and, and people really pick up on it.
[48:07.180 --> 48:16.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, anyway, uh, the, the whole collection appears on, uh, 2600.com/audio-segments, or you can get to it from our main page at 2600.com.
[48:16.400 --> 48:21.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: I want to just play you an excerpt from yesterday's release of, um, of, of, of a bit of news of the world.
[48:21.680 --> 48:30.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: You'll hear, uh, what's known as an interval signal, which basically is a musical chime that repeats to let you know that your radio station is about to come on the air.
[48:30.700 --> 48:32.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: You recognize those particular musical chimes.
[48:33.100 --> 48:38.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now the broadcast could be in all different languages, but if it's a strong signal, it's probably aimed at your country.
[48:38.620 --> 48:43.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, well, you'll hear, um, um, who, who starts out this particular broadcast.
[49:49.540 --> 49:51.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is Radio Moscow.
[49:51.960 --> 49:53.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: There is the news for the headlines.
[49:54.700 --> 50:01.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: The Western and Foreign Minister, Hans-Dietrich Gensher, has completed his official visit to the Soviet Union on Tuesday.
[50:02.360 --> 50:11.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: In Moscow, participants in international forums, science, technology, and peace have handed to Andrzej Romyko their address to the heads of state and governments.
[50:12.580 --> 50:16.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: And Poland observed its national holiday the day of rebirth.
[50:18.440 --> 50:18.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[50:19.020 --> 50:22.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's all we're going to hear right now, but, uh, it's fascinating, fascinating stuff.
[50:22.360 --> 50:26.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's just one example of the audio that we're releasing on a daily basis.
[50:26.840 --> 50:31.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, again, the website, 2600.com/audio-segments.
[50:31.340 --> 50:32.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: New peace gets released every day.
[50:33.080 --> 50:37.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, we started this in mid July and it's going to be going through October.
[50:37.980 --> 50:51.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: I believe that's, that's how much audio we've got lying around that interviews, uh, um, just fun musical, uh, uh, bits outtakes, some of the worst newscasts ever broadcast on radio that I was involved in.
[50:51.880 --> 50:56.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, and it's, uh, it really is kind of neat to be, to be sharing all this.
[50:56.240 --> 51:00.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: We, we, we did some things in, um, Iqaluit, which is, uh, currently in Nunavut.
[51:00.920 --> 51:05.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was in Northwest territories when I visited it back in 1987, I believe.
[51:05.600 --> 51:13.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we were broadcasting some of their local radio and how the radio host there was getting kids to call in and imitate ravens on the air.
[51:14.000 --> 51:18.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: So he basically pick up the phone and instantly there'd be somebody pretending they were a raven.
[51:18.800 --> 51:19.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's local radio.
[51:19.820 --> 51:22.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: That was an incredible thing to record.
[51:22.980 --> 51:26.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, so, um, yeah, get your, get your fix.
[51:27.980 --> 51:31.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if you want to, uh, find it quickly, there's a slide.
[51:31.220 --> 51:35.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just look for something that says the lost tapes and that'll take you right to the segments page.
[51:35.800 --> 51:38.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you can go to any of the things we've already released.
[51:38.200 --> 51:38.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can download them.
[51:39.000 --> 51:39.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can stream them.
[51:39.660 --> 51:39.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[51:39.780 --> 51:40.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead, Rob.
[51:41.240 --> 51:42.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, I just want to mention really quick.
[51:43.020 --> 51:46.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, we, we are doing a 2600 meeting this week, this Friday.
[51:47.040 --> 51:47.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's right.
[51:47.580 --> 51:50.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, and, uh, we are, we are doing them here in New York.
[51:50.760 --> 51:53.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, we are doing it once again, virtually and physically.
[51:53.520 --> 51:54.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: We are meeting outdoors.
[51:54.800 --> 52:00.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: So if you want to come to our meeting in person, it is outdoors at the, uh, entrance to the atrium on 53rd and 3rd.
[52:01.440 --> 52:07.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, and, uh, if you want to attend virtually there, there will be a, uh, a video conference meeting as well.
[52:07.420 --> 52:12.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: So check out nyc2600.net for, uh, all the info on that and join us.
[52:12.740 --> 52:20.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, uh, similar to last month, if, uh, you're involved in a meeting, there are just several, um, uh, qualifications that you have to meet.
[52:20.480 --> 52:26.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, you have to be in an area where the, um, uh, total vaccination rate is 40% or above.
[52:26.600 --> 52:30.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, and, uh, we're seeing more and more places meet that, which is great.
[52:31.040 --> 52:33.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, you have to contact us.
[52:33.300 --> 52:43.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can either email us meetings at 2600.com or tweet to us or send us a direct message or a Twitter handle is 2600 meetings, 2600 meetings.
[52:44.240 --> 52:47.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, let us know the details of your meeting.
[52:47.500 --> 52:56.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, if you had a meeting before, you know, everything went crazy, uh, in, in, in 2019 or 2020, um, it's not going to automatically be realisted.
[52:56.620 --> 52:57.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: We need to hear from you.
[52:58.100 --> 53:01.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: We need to know that there are people still there that are interested in doing this.
[53:01.840 --> 53:08.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: If there was no meeting anywhere near you, this is a great opportunity for you to get some attention for the meeting that you want to start.
[53:08.880 --> 53:13.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: So simply email us and, um, uh, tell us where you want to have your meeting.
[53:13.840 --> 53:19.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: They, they generally take place the first Friday of every month between the hours of five and eight that's flexible.
[53:20.060 --> 53:23.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, so let us know if, um, you need to change those hours.
[53:23.920 --> 53:29.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, but again, meetings at 2600.com or 2600 meetings on Twitter.
[53:29.680 --> 53:31.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's the best way to get ahold of us.
[53:31.400 --> 53:36.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: And of course you can go to 2600.com/meetings to see a list of all the meetings that are taking place.
[53:36.300 --> 53:37.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Currently they're all in the United States.
[53:37.820 --> 53:42.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: We expect that to, uh, uh, be reestablished in other parts of the world as, as we hear from them.
[53:42.980 --> 53:48.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, but Alex, I know that, uh, a lot of your history comes from 2600 meetings in the, in the past.
[53:48.760 --> 53:49.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: It does indeed.
[53:50.060 --> 53:50.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[53:50.660 --> 54:04.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: There's been, uh, a lot of hijinks and I, and a lot of learning that's happened at them, you know, things and techniques and, uh, things I still use to this day that, uh, are all a product of my misspent youth, mainly at 2600 meetings.
[54:04.440 --> 54:05.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: And now you're a prestigious lawyer.
[54:06.100 --> 54:07.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: So just think about that kids.
[54:07.760 --> 54:15.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: What, what, what you could, uh, be in for, uh, we're out of time, but we're going to over time, go to youtube.com Channel2600.
[54:15.360 --> 54:19.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can join us there or just go to the link that's on the main 2600.com page.
[54:19.640 --> 54:21.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can call us and we'll talk to you.
[54:21.980 --> 54:24.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's for the next hour starting at 8 PM.
[54:24.640 --> 54:26.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's all about knowledge.
[54:26.580 --> 54:27.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll see you next week.
[54:27.940 --> 54:32.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Write to us, write to us at oth@2600.com.
[54:32.360 --> 54:33.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: We
[54:40.940 --> 54:44.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: drink or break open.
[54:44.320 --> 54:51.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Our veins solely to know, solely to know, solely to know.
[54:56.420 --> 55:07.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hunger drives me onward to feel all of the skin, all of the skin, all of the skin.
[55:11.000 --> 55:18.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: The thrill of the knowing blasts me out of my brain.
[55:18.700 --> 55:22.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: I want to know, I want to know.
[55:26.280 --> 55:33.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: Into our eyes, hundreds of flashes cause us to feel the light in the sky.
[55:33.820 --> 55:37.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: I want to know, I want to know.
[55:47.820 --> 55:50.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: And welcome to everybody on Overtime.
[55:50.840 --> 55:56.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here we are for another fun-packed edition of Off The Oak Overtime, where you can call us.
[55:56.580 --> 56:00.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Our telephone number is 802-321-4225.
[56:00.040 --> 56:03.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: That spells out 802-321-HACK.
[56:04.120 --> 56:06.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, everybody from Skype-land, you all make it safely?
[56:07.600 --> 56:10.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, Rob, you're telling us we're actually on YouTube?
[56:10.600 --> 56:11.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, that's good.
[56:11.720 --> 56:12.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, indeed.
[56:12.380 --> 56:14.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Remember that whole show we did where we weren't on anything?
[56:15.360 --> 56:16.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we didn't even record it.
[56:16.620 --> 56:17.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was one of the best shows we ever did.
[56:19.360 --> 56:20.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: I shed a tear.
[56:20.480 --> 56:22.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, well, that's, uh, regrets, you know.
[56:22.380 --> 56:27.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: I regret that I spent most of the last hour bitching about things, but, you know, I just had a lot to get off my chest.
[56:27.180 --> 56:28.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I think that's, that's healthy sometimes.
[56:28.620 --> 56:34.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: And now, we're offering you, the listener, the chance to do just that, by calling us and just letting loose.
[56:34.760 --> 56:36.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: And maybe you want to bitch at us.
[56:36.140 --> 56:37.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe it's something we did.
[56:37.240 --> 56:38.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, it's entirely possible.
[56:44.220 --> 56:44.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: We want to hear about that, too.
[56:45.120 --> 56:45.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, we sure do.
[56:46.020 --> 56:46.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely.
[56:47.080 --> 56:50.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, 802-321-4225 is our telephone number.
[56:50.360 --> 56:52.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, the lines are open to everybody.
[56:53.020 --> 56:57.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, and, um, we also have a bunch of other things that we, we didn't get to.
[56:58.160 --> 57:02.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, including, we have a letter from our good friend, John Huntington.
[57:02.260 --> 57:08.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, you may have talked about this before, but I got global entry some time ago for, uh, TSA, TSA Pre.
[57:09.020 --> 57:09.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: I guess that's what they call it.
[57:10.200 --> 57:14.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, but finally used the border features for the first time on, uh, the other day.
[57:14.580 --> 57:20.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, when I arrived at JFK, I was able to cut the line and go to a bank, uh, of kiosks.
[57:20.500 --> 57:22.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, the kiosk asked me to take a photo.
[57:23.060 --> 57:32.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: I thought it just has a record, but it actually facial ID'd me with my mask around my chin and directed me to a check-in where someone examined my passport.
[57:32.820 --> 57:35.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was efficient, but a bit creepy.
[57:35.760 --> 57:37.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: He was coming back from Iceland.
[57:38.140 --> 57:39.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, yeah.
[57:39.780 --> 57:42.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, and I, I also, uh, just got this text.
[57:42.660 --> 57:45.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hello, this is NYC COVID-19 Test and Trace Corp.
[57:45.840 --> 57:49.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, you recently traveled to New York from a CDC at-risk country.
[57:50.240 --> 57:53.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: We recommend that after you travel, you closely monitor for symptoms of COVID-19.
[57:53.980 --> 58:05.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you have not been vaccinated or have not been confirmed with COVID-19 in the last three months and recovered, we recommend you get a COVID-19 test and quarantine until you receive your negative test result.
[58:05.400 --> 58:11.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can find a site for a fast, no-cost-to-you test at nyc.gov slash COVID test.
[58:11.100 --> 58:13.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I guess that applies to just about anyone.
[58:14.040 --> 58:21.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, so, uh, basically, um, uh, John says, I guess the TSA or someone is sharing the arrival info with the test and trace people.
[58:22.280 --> 58:23.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Pretty interesting.
[58:23.420 --> 58:24.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you, John, for writing in.
[58:24.760 --> 58:31.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, and again, you can write to us, oth@2600.com with your experiences or observations or questions or what have you.
[58:31.980 --> 58:34.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, we always like to hear from our listeners.
[58:34.400 --> 58:38.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, uh, yeah, TSA, um, uh, pre, the global entry.
[58:38.420 --> 58:45.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: I almost signed up for that once, but, uh, wound up, uh, disqualifying myself by being too honest with them when they asked, were you ever arrested?
[58:46.520 --> 58:55.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I told them about the time I was arrested for littering and, um, whole big thing, whole big long story got, uh, but whatever, it's over now.
[58:55.240 --> 58:59.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I, I, I'm, I'm content to just go through with everybody else and not have to worry about this kind of thing.
[59:04.020 --> 59:05.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I've been there too.
[59:05.080 --> 59:22.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: I know the, the feeling of being rejected, navigating some of the questions that, um, even now might be, uh, unlawful, uh, in terms of employment and, um, travel, you know, freedom of, of movement and so forth.
[59:22.500 --> 59:39.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: It can become, um, onerous and you, you might, um, yeah, like you said, be, be your own worst, uh, enemy and, uh, it's, sometimes it's really hard to characterize some of the things you've been through and, uh, in, in a yes or no kind of way, you know,
[59:39.540 --> 59:40.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: what, what does this actually mean?
[59:40.620 --> 59:41.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: What are they really asking?
[59:42.100 --> 59:54.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, or, um, was that a part of my history that really doesn't apply to this circumstance or my future here, you know, in, in getting this kind of, uh, certification just to, to go somewhere?
[59:54.560 --> 59:58.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just, I just had a real issue with, uh, with the fact that they categorize people.
[59:58.620 --> 01:00:09.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: As trustworthy and non-trustworthy and that's it, you know, you're never able to, uh, well, you can certainly become untrustworthy, but you can never become trustworthy if you're considered by them to be untrustworthy.
[01:00:09.240 --> 01:00:17.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: So if, uh, you know, if, if you're arrested in a demonstration or something, you're forever untrustworthy in the eyes of Homeland Security.
[01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:18.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's, it's just, it's revealing.
[01:00:18.460 --> 01:00:19.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: I learned a lot.
[01:00:19.400 --> 01:00:19.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, go ahead, Alex.
[01:00:20.980 --> 01:00:30.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, I think it's, it's interesting, you know, that being honest about these things denied you access to this global pre-check.
[01:00:30.380 --> 01:00:45.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, conversely, I think back to, you know, when I was younger and, and worked in, uh, uh, in the intelligence community, and I had, I had to go through security clearance processing to get a top secret clearance with access to sensitive compartmented information,
[01:00:46.020 --> 01:00:48.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: TSSCI, very, very high level clearance.
[01:00:48.120 --> 01:01:05.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, I had to fill out the SF-86 form, the National Security Questionnaire, and, you know, I wasn't always a perfect individual in my past either, but, you know, on, being honest about these things and forthright, and then I had to take a, a polygraph examination as well as part of this,
[01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:09.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: because part of my TSSCI processing was the lifestyle polygraph.
[01:01:10.360 --> 01:01:17.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, um, and, and one of the sections on the polygraph was, uh, frankly, you know, the, the misuse of information technology.
[01:01:17.940 --> 01:01:38.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, you know, we certainly had a lot to discuss, uh, my polygrapher and I, but, uh, you know, at the end of it, and I was not surprisingly one of the people that got called back for a second day of, uh, polygraphy, but, uh, at the end of it, I felt like there's absolutely no way I'm going to get a security clearance.
[01:01:38.320 --> 01:01:41.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: But yet there was, you know, it showed up and, and had arrived.
[01:01:41.740 --> 01:01:48.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I feel like, you know, being honest and transparent about these things, you know, everyone always says, you know, the coverup is, is worse than the crime.
[01:01:48.460 --> 01:01:52.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I'm, I'm frankly shocked that, uh, that they had rejected you on that basis.
[01:01:52.220 --> 01:01:53.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: And it really seems unfair.
[01:01:54.660 --> 01:01:55.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: I have to agree.
[01:01:56.160 --> 01:02:02.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, but I also want to tell people that our phone line is indeed working and you should give it a call.
[01:02:03.900 --> 01:02:06.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: 802-321-4225.
[01:02:07.520 --> 01:02:09.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'll hang up now and listen on the radio.
[01:02:11.620 --> 01:02:12.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, thank you.
[01:02:12.360 --> 01:02:13.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you very much for that.
[01:02:13.540 --> 01:02:14.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: That was kind of out of nowhere.
[01:02:15.560 --> 01:02:15.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[01:02:16.140 --> 01:02:17.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, so our phone line is working.
[01:02:17.640 --> 01:02:19.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: I wanted to ask some questions, but okay, fine.
[01:02:19.660 --> 01:02:20.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Our phone line is working.
[01:02:20.600 --> 01:02:22.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Apparently 802-321-4225.
[01:02:22.860 --> 01:02:24.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: So no excuses, people, no excuses at all.
[01:02:24.780 --> 01:02:26.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you could be anywhere in the world.
[01:02:26.400 --> 01:02:27.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Country code one.
[01:02:31.410 --> 01:02:35.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, um, operators are lounging about.
[01:02:35.630 --> 01:02:36.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're not really standing.
[01:02:36.990 --> 01:02:37.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think they're lounging about.
[01:02:38.010 --> 01:02:39.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're, you know, they're free.
[01:02:39.390 --> 01:02:43.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're not too busy, but, uh, you know, clock's ticking.
[01:02:43.550 --> 01:02:45.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: So don't leave them waiting.
[01:02:45.290 --> 01:02:45.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:02:45.410 --> 01:02:46.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's make them busy.
[01:02:46.270 --> 01:02:46.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[01:02:46.490 --> 01:02:47.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's make them busy.
[01:02:47.230 --> 01:02:48.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: They don't have to do anything though.
[01:02:48.650 --> 01:02:50.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: They have to hit a single button.
[01:02:50.250 --> 01:02:50.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Come on.
[01:02:50.430 --> 01:02:51.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's so much stuff going on.
[01:02:51.770 --> 01:02:51.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:02:52.250 --> 01:02:58.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: And being hacked and, uh, uh, technology being wielded around and, and, uh, mysteries.
[01:02:59.430 --> 01:03:01.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Does anyone care about the mysteries out there?
[01:03:01.930 --> 01:03:02.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like what?
[01:03:02.650 --> 01:03:04.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or the lack of mystery?
[01:03:05.090 --> 01:03:05.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[01:03:06.150 --> 01:03:06.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:03:06.530 --> 01:03:09.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not my, I'm just... Well, you brought it up.
[01:03:09.230 --> 01:03:10.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's why I'm asking.
[01:03:10.050 --> 01:03:15.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, but I'm, I'm conjuring, you know, some thoughts trying to... Oh, she has a mystery.
[01:03:15.990 --> 01:03:16.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: I do.
[01:03:16.730 --> 01:03:20.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: I, well, I have an answer to a mystery from earlier, which is Alex.
[01:03:21.510 --> 01:03:21.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, okay.
[01:03:21.950 --> 01:03:22.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: He is a mystery.
[01:03:22.690 --> 01:03:23.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: No question.
[01:03:23.790 --> 01:03:24.670]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, indeed, indeed.
[01:03:24.910 --> 01:03:34.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: But I did discover that there is a way that you, having been vaccinated outside of New York state, can get an Excelsior pass if you want it.
[01:03:36.110 --> 01:03:42.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: So I was looking at my Excelsior pass and it was, uh, scheduled to expire next month.
[01:03:43.590 --> 01:03:45.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: So I went and I was like, what do I need to do?
[01:03:45.570 --> 01:03:48.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: And apparently there's now a thing called Excelsior pass plus.
[01:03:52.990 --> 01:04:07.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you were vaccinated outside of New York state, you have a doctor inside New York state and you send them your vaccination record and then they upload it into the New York state database, you can get an Excelsior pass.
[01:04:07.830 --> 01:04:08.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's the process.
[01:04:09.190 --> 01:04:10.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's not too bad.
[01:04:10.410 --> 01:04:11.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, all right.
[01:04:11.310 --> 01:04:15.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I get, well, hold on a second, but I don't have a doctor out of state.
[01:04:16.530 --> 01:04:18.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, it's a doctor in New York, in New York.
[01:04:19.050 --> 01:04:19.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[01:04:19.970 --> 01:04:20.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: I have a doctor.
[01:04:20.550 --> 01:04:20.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[01:04:20.770 --> 01:04:25.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: So go to your doctor in New York with your vaccination card and your doctor.
[01:04:26.030 --> 01:04:26.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[01:04:26.570 --> 01:04:32.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I thought you were saying I needed a physician, you know, in another state to send something to a doctor in this state, but I guess not.
[01:04:32.490 --> 01:04:33.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: You just go with your card.
[01:04:33.930 --> 01:04:41.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: You have your doctor here, here, here in New York, put your information into the New York state and New York city databases.
[01:04:42.290 --> 01:04:45.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then you too can have an Excelsior pass.
[01:04:45.590 --> 01:04:48.030]  [SPEAKER_00]: The difference is Excelsior pass is blue.
[01:04:48.250 --> 01:04:50.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: Excelsior pass plus is white.
[01:04:50.670 --> 01:04:51.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, no.
[01:04:51.290 --> 01:04:51.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wait a minute.
[01:04:51.730 --> 01:04:52.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm curious about this.
[01:04:52.790 --> 01:04:55.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: First of all, your Excelsior pass is already expiring?
[01:04:56.470 --> 01:04:57.030]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[01:04:57.510 --> 01:05:03.470]  [SPEAKER_00]: It, um, it was for six, 180 days after your final vaccination.
[01:05:03.750 --> 01:05:03.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:05:04.270 --> 01:05:07.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: So we all got vaccinated around the same time.
[01:05:07.050 --> 01:05:11.930]  [SPEAKER_00]: So I would recommend if you have an Excelsior pass, you check it for expiration.
[01:05:12.310 --> 01:05:19.470]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and also they have decided that if you reload your Excelsior pass, it'll be good for a year instead of 180 days.
[01:05:19.470 --> 01:05:28.550]  [SPEAKER_00]: That was also the reason I wanted to look because I think the, the mandate for vaccination, proof of vaccination starts mid September.
[01:05:28.870 --> 01:05:32.250]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think my Excelsior pass was scheduled to expire a week later.
[01:05:32.970 --> 01:05:36.610]  [SPEAKER_00]: So I was trying to figure out what I could do because I like going places.
[01:05:36.850 --> 01:05:38.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'm looking for it now.
[01:05:38.510 --> 01:05:43.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, first of all, this is another pet peeve I have with, with apps on phones.
[01:05:43.730 --> 01:05:46.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're alphabetized, but you don't always know what they're called.
[01:05:46.930 --> 01:05:49.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: For instance, my flashlight app was called torch.
[01:05:50.070 --> 01:05:51.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I wasn't able to find it under F.
[01:05:51.810 --> 01:05:57.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: I had to go through all of my apps to find something that looked like a flashlight and turned out to be torch, which I renamed the flashlight.
[01:05:57.950 --> 01:05:59.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: So that doesn't happen again.
[01:05:59.310 --> 01:06:00.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can't find Excelsior pass.
[01:06:00.790 --> 01:06:01.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's it actually called?
[01:06:02.790 --> 01:06:03.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: NYS.
[01:06:03.850 --> 01:06:04.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: NYS.
[01:06:04.450 --> 01:06:05.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: See, this is what I'm talking about.
[01:06:05.830 --> 01:06:05.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:06:05.990 --> 01:06:06.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: There it is.
[01:06:06.530 --> 01:06:08.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: NYS Excelsior pass wallet.
[01:06:08.830 --> 01:06:12.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Honestly, if there's a torch app, it better damn well be a torch.
[01:06:12.350 --> 01:06:13.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: The app is out of date.
[01:06:13.990 --> 01:06:15.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: You must update to the latest version.
[01:06:16.330 --> 01:06:20.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they really, I guess in, I mean, this is the other thing.
[01:06:20.690 --> 01:06:21.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: They have developers.
[01:06:21.870 --> 01:06:24.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here's me standing at a bar saying, okay, I've been vaccinated.
[01:06:24.890 --> 01:06:26.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: And now it says I have to update my app.
[01:06:26.990 --> 01:06:28.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: How embarrassing would that have been?
[01:06:28.590 --> 01:06:28.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[01:06:28.890 --> 01:06:29.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Updating now.
[01:06:30.370 --> 01:06:37.790]  [SPEAKER_00]: Aren't you glad that we all are taking these steps now rather than hold, you know, look for reliable.
[01:06:38.530 --> 01:06:40.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can either uninstall or update.
[01:06:40.190 --> 01:06:41.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to choose to update right now.
[01:06:42.010 --> 01:06:44.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Even though I already said update, I'm doing it a second time.
[01:06:44.670 --> 01:06:46.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: 802-321-4225.
[01:06:46.750 --> 01:06:47.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're taking your calls.
[01:06:48.170 --> 01:06:48.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:06:48.610 --> 01:06:50.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we could just play with our phones all night long.
[01:06:50.470 --> 01:06:52.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: If nobody calls up.
[01:06:53.350 --> 01:06:53.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:06:53.850 --> 01:06:54.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Installing.
[01:06:54.370 --> 01:06:55.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, I guess I have to open it.
[01:06:56.070 --> 01:06:56.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right?
[01:06:56.770 --> 01:06:57.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:06:57.190 --> 01:06:58.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's telling me to open it.
[01:06:58.330 --> 01:07:00.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: I guess that's what I wanted to do in the first place was open it.
[01:07:01.210 --> 01:07:04.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: And now I'm going to see if the pass itself is about to expire.
[01:07:04.530 --> 01:07:05.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Terms and conditions.
[01:07:05.410 --> 01:07:08.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: I accept the terms and conditions, whatever they happen to be.
[01:07:08.570 --> 01:07:08.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Continue.
[01:07:09.550 --> 01:07:12.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: And here's a privacy policy that's really, really long.
[01:07:13.390 --> 01:07:14.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: I scrolled all the way to the bottom.
[01:07:15.010 --> 01:07:16.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Updated July 29th, 2021.
[01:07:17.170 --> 01:07:17.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Continue.
[01:07:19.510 --> 01:07:20.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: And okay.
[01:07:21.010 --> 01:07:23.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: My pass expires in October.
[01:07:24.490 --> 01:07:26.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I see an active pass.
[01:07:26.390 --> 01:07:26.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: What do I do?
[01:07:27.070 --> 01:07:28.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: I guess I don't have to do anything?
[01:07:29.330 --> 01:07:30.470]  [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to do anything.
[01:07:30.730 --> 01:07:31.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you can.
[01:07:31.570 --> 01:07:34.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: When it expires, I think you can get a new pass.
[01:07:34.430 --> 01:07:40.030]  [SPEAKER_00]: Or you could just... There's a little plus sign up in the corner that you can click on to get a new pass.
[01:07:40.230 --> 01:07:47.470]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think we'll offer you the option of getting a Excelsior pass or an Excelsior pass plus, which is italicized because it's fancy.
[01:07:48.130 --> 01:07:48.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:07:48.730 --> 01:07:52.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: And again, the difference between Excelsior pass and Excelsior pass plus is what exactly?
[01:07:53.670 --> 01:07:57.430]  [SPEAKER_00]: Best I can tell, Excelsior pass plus does not expire.
[01:07:58.230 --> 01:07:58.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:07:58.890 --> 01:07:59.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's what I want.
[01:08:00.830 --> 01:08:11.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: And also, if you were vaccinated outside of the state of New York, you can still get a pass plus if you've had it entered into the New York State vaccination database.
[01:08:11.510 --> 01:08:11.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:08:11.890 --> 01:08:12.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alex, go ahead.
[01:08:12.930 --> 01:08:20.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: See, that's the question that I have here, which is, I think it's a great solution to my problem.
[01:08:20.350 --> 01:08:24.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: But it brings up, I think, thornier security issues.
[01:08:24.410 --> 01:08:30.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: Because there are literally zero security mechanisms baked into these vaccination cards.
[01:08:30.310 --> 01:08:32.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: They can essentially be photocopied.
[01:08:32.330 --> 01:08:44.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: I imagine that physicians might even be taking these, if they are indeed uploading them, they're probably taking digital images of these vaccination cards being emailed to them.
[01:08:44.890 --> 01:08:49.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: They're probably allowing people to email the photos of these cards and then uploading themselves.
[01:08:49.430 --> 01:09:01.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: So what precautions are doctors going to take or should they take to ensure that they are not uploading fraudulently created or bogus vaccination cards?
[01:09:01.270 --> 01:09:14.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, these things can be doctored electronically, they can be made physically, you know, and there's an entire cottage industry, I think, being created for fraudulent vaccination cards that is really, really simple.
[01:09:15.530 --> 01:09:27.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: And so I see this being, you know, somewhat problematic if doctors are going to be expected to verify these cards that have literally zero security mechanisms baked into them.
[01:09:27.730 --> 01:09:32.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I think we have to, excuse me, we have to recognize that there's not much security here.
[01:09:32.650 --> 01:09:36.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you want, if you want to make a fake card, it's not that hard to do.
[01:09:37.190 --> 01:09:43.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know what other security issues we're worried about, though, because if you give this to your doctor, what's he going to do?
[01:09:43.670 --> 01:09:47.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Make a bunch of Alex's, you know, or start something?
[01:09:47.250 --> 01:09:47.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, no, no.
[01:09:47.910 --> 01:09:51.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm worried about him uploading fraudulent cards.
[01:09:51.010 --> 01:09:51.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, no, no.
[01:09:51.490 --> 01:10:02.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: Not that somebody, somebody who's not vaccinated would give the doctor a card to be uploaded to the New York State database, indicating that the person is vaccinated when they are in fact not vaccinated.
[01:10:03.030 --> 01:10:07.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, I think they're, they're going to verify what your card says to them.
[01:10:08.070 --> 01:10:10.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I feel like your doctor would have a very serious conversation with you.
[01:10:11.030 --> 01:10:27.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: If they looked at what you handed them, you said you were vaccinated, they checked in a system they probably have access to, and then came back to you and said, actually, we don't show a record of you having been vaccinated, you have any other documentation to substantiate that,
[01:10:27.430 --> 01:10:29.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think you would be challenged, wouldn't you?
[01:10:29.310 --> 01:10:30.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is your doctor.
[01:10:30.510 --> 01:10:31.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is your doctor.
[01:10:31.730 --> 01:10:33.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: He knows you or she knows you.
[01:10:33.290 --> 01:10:37.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I don't know what certainly it would be kind of a weird game to play.
[01:10:38.110 --> 01:10:42.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: The thing that I think people might do, you know, they're offering $100 now for people to get vaccinated.
[01:10:43.050 --> 01:10:45.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you know, I feel kind of resentful that I didn't get 100 bucks.
[01:10:45.870 --> 01:10:48.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: What if I go and try to get another vaccine and get 100 bucks out of it?
[01:10:48.550 --> 01:10:53.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think they'll catch me at that too, because the system shows that I already got vaccinated.
[01:10:54.950 --> 01:10:55.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: Possibly.
[01:10:55.530 --> 01:11:11.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, you know, to go back to Kyle's point, though, I mean, I think in an ideal world, there should be some checklist for a doctor to go through, for him to authenticate a vaccine card that comes from out of state, to actually make it to do exactly what Kyle said.
[01:11:12.150 --> 01:11:14.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's what we should be expecting of doctors.
[01:11:14.230 --> 01:11:21.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: But I don't think that there is any security checklist or any procedure right now for a doctor to go through other than use common sense.
[01:11:22.050 --> 01:11:30.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: And if they're getting inundated with these, you know, it might just be easier to have an administrative assistant process them and upload them into the New York State database.
[01:11:30.950 --> 01:11:43.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: I just hope that it doesn't... I hope that this database does not become inundated with fraudulent vaccination records, simply because nobody decided it was worthwhile to create the exact security procedures that Kyle just detailed.
[01:11:43.950 --> 01:11:46.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think that there is more to this.
[01:11:46.790 --> 01:11:50.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a lot of information on this card, including lot numbers of each dose.
[01:11:50.330 --> 01:12:06.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have a strong suspicion that people administering the doses, namely pharmacy chains, as well as large institutions like National Guard, who is administering at the college campus out here, I think they were documenting who was scheduled for what time,
[01:12:06.590 --> 01:12:11.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: who got a card and showed up, and that that information is somewhere.
[01:12:11.490 --> 01:12:14.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't think that the doctors are...
[01:12:14.090 --> 01:12:14.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: But is it accessible to the doctors?
[01:12:14.930 --> 01:12:16.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's the question, right?
[01:12:20.590 --> 01:12:22.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't feel that that...
[01:12:22.990 --> 01:12:23.110]  I don't know.
[01:12:23.370 --> 01:12:24.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, you don't know.
[01:12:24.910 --> 01:12:25.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Correct.
[01:12:25.850 --> 01:12:28.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I don't think that it is unknown.
[01:12:28.790 --> 01:12:30.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think that they have a lot of resources.
[01:12:31.230 --> 01:12:33.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's like teachers catching plagiarism, you know?
[01:12:33.990 --> 01:12:36.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not what they teach, but they certainly have tools to detect it.
[01:12:37.170 --> 01:12:38.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: You don't die from plagiarism, Kyle.
[01:12:40.230 --> 01:12:41.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Actually, that's not true.
[01:12:41.790 --> 01:12:43.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have very strict editorial policy at 2600.
[01:12:44.130 --> 01:12:46.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, you know, compare.
[01:12:46.470 --> 01:12:47.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: You went to a pharmacy.
[01:12:47.710 --> 01:12:50.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: I went to one of those National Guard sites.
[01:12:50.650 --> 01:12:51.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right, but each has...
[01:12:51.730 --> 01:12:52.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: And the info is pretty much the same.
[01:12:52.710 --> 01:12:57.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Your scheduled time, what dates, your eligibility even based on your birth date.
[01:12:57.890 --> 01:12:59.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, you were born yesterday?
[01:12:59.330 --> 01:13:02.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: You shouldn't have been there at this time because you weren't eligible.
[01:13:02.170 --> 01:13:03.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Don't crumple my card.
[01:13:03.730 --> 01:13:11.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Those kinds of little super sleuthing techniques, I think, are simple ways they could protect whatever frailties this system has.
[01:13:11.630 --> 01:13:13.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Again, you know, you have to go to your own doctor and commit fraud.
[01:13:14.010 --> 01:13:16.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think that's beyond what most people are willing to do.
[01:13:16.870 --> 01:13:19.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, I just hope we're a little better than that.
[01:13:19.890 --> 01:13:23.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: And for those of you who aren't better than that, okay, you know what?
[01:13:23.170 --> 01:13:25.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're the one that's going to be hurt more than anybody.
[01:13:26.970 --> 01:13:27.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, you know what?
[01:13:27.790 --> 01:13:31.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're not going to stay much longer if we don't get phone calls because that's kind of why we're here.
[01:13:32.110 --> 01:13:34.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: 802-321-4225.
[01:13:35.190 --> 01:13:42.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't mean to scold people, but, you know, I see we have a good number of listeners, but it would be nice to hear from some of you.
[01:13:42.370 --> 01:13:44.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, we'll give you a few more minutes.
[01:13:44.570 --> 01:13:49.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, you know, there's parties and dancing out there that we could be a part of.
[01:13:49.330 --> 01:13:54.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we're more than happy to take off early if that's what, you know, fate dictates.
[01:13:55.930 --> 01:13:57.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: A square meal would be nice.
[01:13:58.190 --> 01:14:03.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm working for the, for the end of the day here.
[01:14:03.870 --> 01:14:04.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:14:04.330 --> 01:14:07.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I've been, I've been holding on to this phone.
[01:14:09.890 --> 01:14:10.290]  Oh.
[01:14:10.290 --> 01:14:11.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Are you getting an alert?
[01:14:11.690 --> 01:14:12.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rob wants to say something.
[01:14:13.750 --> 01:14:20.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, just to clarify what we were talking about before with the Excelsior Pass Plus, we've dug up the differences between them.
[01:14:20.350 --> 01:14:22.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Excelsior Pass is basically a yes or no thing.
[01:14:23.010 --> 01:14:24.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have a pass or you don't.
[01:14:24.410 --> 01:14:33.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you can get a pass by either having your vaccine, or you can get your pass by having a negative test recently that lasts for a shorter time, I think a week.
[01:14:34.010 --> 01:14:36.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's just, yes, you have a pass or you don't.
[01:14:36.130 --> 01:14:39.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Excelsior Pass Plus ties more information into it.
[01:14:40.010 --> 01:14:46.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: It has your vaccine type, your vaccine site, the date of your vaccination, basically the info that's on your paper vaccination card.
[01:14:46.670 --> 01:14:57.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, for those concerned about like sharing one kind of information over the this is how you want to make that decision, whether to get the Pass Plus or just the Excelsior Pass.
[01:14:57.690 --> 01:15:01.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: It just seems to be like the enhanced driver's license or other things like that.
[01:15:01.690 --> 01:15:03.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's more biometric information tied to it.
[01:15:04.230 --> 01:15:04.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:15:04.570 --> 01:15:06.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, thank you very much for that information.
[01:15:07.490 --> 01:15:08.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, Bobson.
[01:15:08.330 --> 01:15:08.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: How are you?
[01:15:10.450 --> 01:15:13.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, kind of sleepy at the time of night.
[01:15:13.590 --> 01:15:23.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: We appreciate you waking up enough to dial the phone because apparently people in America are too caught up, I guess, watching the Olympics or something to dial us.
[01:15:23.570 --> 01:15:26.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you from Bulgaria, you're able to do that, which is great.
[01:15:27.890 --> 01:15:32.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't it a bit early for the Olympics, given what time it is in Tokyo?
[01:15:32.810 --> 01:15:34.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I don't get it.
[01:15:35.050 --> 01:15:36.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know what my gripe is about that?
[01:15:36.610 --> 01:15:37.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh boy, here we go.
[01:15:37.210 --> 01:15:49.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: That a lot of, if you follow whatever your country's team account is, you get, depending on where you are, you get all of the results earlier if you're following social media.
[01:15:49.570 --> 01:16:00.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: So if you actually go and maybe watch it on some time shift DVR system or whatever to catch up on the time difference, you already know because social media screwed it up.
[01:16:00.630 --> 01:16:03.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're already congratulating people and posting and all of that.
[01:16:03.150 --> 01:16:03.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, wow.
[01:16:03.690 --> 01:16:05.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you can't shut everybody up.
[01:16:05.270 --> 01:16:06.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, you just can't.
[01:16:06.490 --> 01:16:24.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: The thing is, I, there were very few things I really wanted to see in the Olympics and they started on the third, it was yesterday, I guess, with rock climbing for the first time in the Olympics and I really wanted to see that.
[01:16:25.430 --> 01:16:53.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's, they're not climbing rocks, they're climbing, you know, walls, the indoor type climbing walls, which may be out of doors there, but I don't know because I really wanted to see it and I have access to cable television with half a dozen sports channels and not one of them was showing it.
[01:16:53.490 --> 01:16:59.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: And there's two of the four days of competition that I missed and I'm unhappy about that.
[01:16:59.930 --> 01:17:00.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I...
[01:17:00.290 --> 01:17:02.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is there, is there much Bulgarian representation at the Olympics?
[01:17:04.990 --> 01:17:07.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think there is some.
[01:17:07.890 --> 01:17:16.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure if it's lots of it, but maybe a few people managed to get there.
[01:17:17.430 --> 01:17:20.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: Although I'm not sure if anyone even tried.
[01:17:21.230 --> 01:17:22.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you know...
[01:17:22.010 --> 01:17:33.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I know they were competing to qualify for it at some point in the past, but I'm not sure if who, if anyone is there representing us.
[01:17:35.250 --> 01:17:37.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, there are some definite highlights.
[01:17:37.090 --> 01:17:41.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: For instance, I heard a 12 year old won a medal, of course, in skateboarding.
[01:17:41.550 --> 01:17:47.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I think it's great that skateboarding is now a sport because you're seeing all these kids now that are super into it and doing some really good tricks.
[01:17:47.050 --> 01:17:51.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: I saw some of the skateboarding competition and I was...
[01:17:54.490 --> 01:18:00.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: I enjoyed watching it, is what I'm trying to figure out how to say.
[01:18:00.450 --> 01:18:00.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: Anyhow.
[01:18:02.070 --> 01:18:03.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's...
[01:18:03.030 --> 01:18:04.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: It has had its highlights.
[01:18:04.950 --> 01:18:08.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's definitely been some issues, but definitely highlights as well.
[01:18:09.530 --> 01:18:10.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
[01:18:10.430 --> 01:18:12.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm looking through the whole list of medal...
[01:18:12.510 --> 01:18:16.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Bulgaria did win a silver medal and a bronze medal.
[01:18:16.250 --> 01:18:17.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, there you go.
[01:18:17.570 --> 01:18:19.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know in what, but maybe you do.
[01:18:20.070 --> 01:18:23.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I can look into the list at some point.
[01:18:23.850 --> 01:18:33.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: And besides, they are unlikely to be getting back here in need of a huge welcome before the Olympics are closed for this year.
[01:18:33.690 --> 01:18:42.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: I heard something rather disturbing, Bobson, that Bulgaria is doing about as badly as Mississippi as far as vaccines go.
[01:18:42.970 --> 01:18:48.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's a terrible thing to say to anybody, but does that seem to be true?
[01:18:49.350 --> 01:18:53.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, first of all, I have no idea how bad Mississippi is doing.
[01:18:53.610 --> 01:18:54.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Pretty bad.
[01:18:54.330 --> 01:18:54.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Pretty bad.
[01:18:55.150 --> 01:18:55.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: Pretty bad.
[01:18:55.310 --> 01:18:56.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know how...
[01:18:57.950 --> 01:19:01.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that there is much to brag about around here.
[01:19:02.350 --> 01:19:02.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[01:19:04.090 --> 01:19:04.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: There's...
[01:19:07.210 --> 01:19:08.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Are there demonstrations?
[01:19:09.730 --> 01:19:12.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is there resistance to it or just apathy?
[01:19:12.610 --> 01:19:12.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, not that I know of, but...
[01:19:12.890 --> 01:19:13.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not Belarus, it's Bulgaria.
[01:19:14.250 --> 01:19:14.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, right, right.
[01:19:18.940 --> 01:19:19.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:19:19.500 --> 01:19:19.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:19:20.000 --> 01:19:20.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:19:20.320 --> 01:19:21.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Not Belarus, yes.
[01:19:22.860 --> 01:19:24.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: Speaking of which...
[01:19:24.120 --> 01:19:24.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[01:19:24.400 --> 01:19:25.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: I heard...
[01:19:25.400 --> 01:19:34.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: I heard news that that lady from Belarus who was trying to get to Poland made it to Wien, at least.
[01:19:34.600 --> 01:19:42.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, she altered her ticket, her return ticket, to not go to Minsk, instead to go to Vienna and wind up in Poland, I think.
[01:19:42.460 --> 01:19:43.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: And the...
[01:19:43.660 --> 01:19:44.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, no.
[01:19:44.420 --> 01:19:48.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: She went to the Polish embassy in Tokyo to ask for asylum.
[01:19:48.760 --> 01:19:49.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[01:19:49.480 --> 01:20:01.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: And she was granted asylum, and then was supposed to travel to Warsaw, but on the airplane they rearranged her traveling plans so she gets on a Tokyo to Wien plane.
[01:20:01.900 --> 01:20:02.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because of what happened?
[01:20:02.220 --> 01:20:03.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wait, on the plane they changed her...
[01:20:03.820 --> 01:20:03.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because of what happened?
[01:20:03.900 --> 01:20:04.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's called hijacking.
[01:20:04.900 --> 01:20:06.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: On their plane they changed the destination?
[01:20:06.840 --> 01:20:06.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no.
[01:20:06.860 --> 01:20:07.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: On the airport.
[01:20:07.740 --> 01:20:08.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, the airport.
[01:20:08.460 --> 01:20:08.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[01:20:08.600 --> 01:20:13.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: There was this issue with an airplane that was flying through Belarus and was forced...
[01:20:13.960 --> 01:20:15.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, yeah.
[01:20:15.420 --> 01:20:16.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, some of us heard about that.
[01:20:17.140 --> 01:20:22.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Warsaw might be transiting airspace that is basically hostile right now.
[01:20:22.380 --> 01:20:43.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think also an interesting anecdote about her being in the airport was that the Belarusian consular representatives were there and just trying to offer as much assistance as they could to her in her circumstance, and they were soundly rebuked, and they were not,
[01:20:43.660 --> 01:20:51.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: needless to say, granted any access to her by the Japanese police, which I could absolutely see the Japanese police following through on.
[01:20:51.920 --> 01:20:52.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:20:52.320 --> 01:20:53.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alex, did you have something?
[01:20:54.960 --> 01:20:56.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, I did not.
[01:20:56.200 --> 01:20:57.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: I thought you were raising your hand.
[01:20:57.300 --> 01:20:58.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Was somebody over there raising their hand?
[01:20:58.940 --> 01:20:59.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: No.
[01:20:59.000 --> 01:20:59.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:20:59.080 --> 01:20:59.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:21:00.500 --> 01:21:01.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Never mind.
[01:21:01.160 --> 01:21:01.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sorry for the interruption.
[01:21:02.580 --> 01:21:04.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Bobson, anything else on your end?
[01:21:06.400 --> 01:21:07.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, no.
[01:21:07.780 --> 01:21:29.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: I hope the heat waves that we're going through are not going to last too long because it's getting into three digits of half-hour height around here, which is not my favorite piece of the temperature range, I would say.
[01:21:29.680 --> 01:21:29.980]  Uh-huh.
[01:21:29.980 --> 01:21:32.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you have a fan going by any chance?
[01:21:33.580 --> 01:21:34.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[01:21:34.280 --> 01:21:35.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is it bothering?
[01:21:35.380 --> 01:21:35.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, no.
[01:21:35.800 --> 01:21:41.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just was wondering, because in the old days, a long-distance phone call, you'd hear like kind of a hissing sound.
[01:21:41.380 --> 01:21:43.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I realized that that's not what we're hearing.
[01:21:43.360 --> 01:21:45.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're hearing your fan in the distance.
[01:21:45.680 --> 01:21:46.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: So...
[01:21:46.160 --> 01:21:47.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's see.
[01:21:48.840 --> 01:21:53.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: I have a remote for it, and it should be less noisy now.
[01:21:54.300 --> 01:21:58.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Another thing, the recording you played from years ago on the radio?
[01:21:58.520 --> 01:21:58.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[01:21:59.470 --> 01:22:01.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: I was wondering what interval...
[01:22:01.860 --> 01:22:03.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: That was Radio Moscow.
[01:22:03.300 --> 01:22:04.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: They identified the sounds.
[01:22:04.700 --> 01:22:06.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I recognized it immediately.
[01:22:06.200 --> 01:22:06.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: You did?
[01:22:06.760 --> 01:22:06.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[01:22:07.180 --> 01:22:07.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[01:22:07.360 --> 01:22:08.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: By the interval tones.
[01:22:09.100 --> 01:22:11.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: I used to listen to Radio Sophia as well.
[01:22:14.400 --> 01:22:16.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, so did I.
[01:22:16.560 --> 01:22:19.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but you got the internal service.
[01:22:19.140 --> 01:22:20.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: We had the external service.
[01:22:21.740 --> 01:22:22.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well.
[01:22:22.700 --> 01:22:24.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know much about it.
[01:22:24.540 --> 01:22:24.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then...
[01:22:25.220 --> 01:22:25.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[01:22:26.440 --> 01:22:27.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: The newscasts were different.
[01:22:28.300 --> 01:22:36.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, Bobson, so you should probably get some rest in the heat-ravaged Bulgarian country.
[01:22:36.920 --> 01:22:37.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yeah.
[01:22:37.160 --> 01:22:38.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: This time, this...
[01:22:38.800 --> 01:22:48.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Tonight, it's gonna get below 20 Celsius, which is below 68 Fahrenheit, which is the thing...
[01:22:48.840 --> 01:22:54.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the Germans have a term about nights that don't cool down to below 20 Celsius.
[01:22:54.660 --> 01:22:57.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: They call it tropical nights, and for a reason.
[01:22:57.640 --> 01:22:57.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[01:22:58.940 --> 01:22:59.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, 20 is comfortable.
[01:23:00.140 --> 01:23:00.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: 20 is...
[01:23:00.940 --> 01:23:03.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's about what we're getting here, 20 at night.
[01:23:03.040 --> 01:23:05.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a lot of dry and...
[01:23:05.880 --> 01:23:06.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: 20 Fahrenheit?
[01:23:07.260 --> 01:23:07.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:23:07.840 --> 01:23:08.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no.
[01:23:08.220 --> 01:23:09.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not 20 Fahrenheit.
[01:23:09.320 --> 01:23:09.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: 20 Celsius.
[01:23:10.600 --> 01:23:12.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: 20 Fahrenheit, if only.
[01:23:12.420 --> 01:23:13.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: A lot of dry heat.
[01:23:13.380 --> 01:23:14.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is it humid there?
[01:23:14.820 --> 01:23:15.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Are you...
[01:23:15.220 --> 01:23:16.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Are you saved from the humidity?
[01:23:17.900 --> 01:23:23.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's not humid around here.
[01:23:23.500 --> 01:23:30.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I've been to places much more humid in this kind of water.
[01:23:33.560 --> 01:23:41.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not humid, but the heat is not very convenient to go out in.
[01:23:41.980 --> 01:23:42.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[01:23:42.700 --> 01:23:43.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: We hear you.
[01:23:43.660 --> 01:23:43.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Definitely.
[01:23:44.620 --> 01:23:51.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, best wishes to you, and we hope we get through all these crises, and have some happier days.
[01:23:52.200 --> 01:23:53.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Keep us up to date on everything.
[01:23:53.600 --> 01:23:53.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Same to you.
[01:23:54.140 --> 01:23:54.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[01:23:54.720 --> 01:23:55.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Have a good night.
[01:23:55.440 --> 01:24:05.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I wonder, is it possible for someone to travel to New York for a vaccination and get the hundred dollars you were mentioning?
[01:24:06.280 --> 01:24:07.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's a very good question.
[01:24:07.540 --> 01:24:09.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know, but if anyone could figure it out, it's you.
[01:24:11.380 --> 01:24:23.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't think I need a third injection this year for the vaccination effort, but oh well.
[01:24:23.660 --> 01:24:23.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[01:24:23.920 --> 01:24:26.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't need the hundred dollars that much.
[01:24:26.980 --> 01:24:29.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, the flight would probably cost a lot more than that anyway.
[01:24:30.500 --> 01:24:30.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
[01:24:31.660 --> 01:24:37.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Unless I decide to go swimming, which is a bit too much of a distance for...
[01:24:37.580 --> 01:24:38.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: It is.
[01:24:38.120 --> 01:24:38.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: It is.
[01:24:38.820 --> 01:24:38.980]  It is.
[01:24:39.160 --> 01:24:40.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Bobson, get some rest.
[01:24:40.380 --> 01:24:41.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll talk to you later.
[01:24:41.820 --> 01:24:42.140]  Sure.
[01:24:42.300 --> 01:24:42.740]  Great evening.
[01:24:42.820 --> 01:24:43.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[01:24:43.280 --> 01:24:43.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Take care.
[01:24:43.900 --> 01:24:44.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good hearing from you.
[01:24:45.020 --> 01:24:53.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, someday, we have to do a show at 9 in the morning, because then you'll hear Bobson call in when he's wide awake.
[01:24:53.640 --> 01:24:54.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely, yeah.
[01:24:54.340 --> 01:24:55.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: And he's totally different.
[01:24:55.420 --> 01:25:00.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's like one of those high-energy sportscaster type people.
[01:25:00.300 --> 01:25:01.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: You won't be able to keep up with him.
[01:25:01.960 --> 01:25:02.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Seriously.
[01:25:02.360 --> 01:25:02.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: What are you recognizing?
[01:25:03.120 --> 01:25:03.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not at all.
[01:25:03.820 --> 01:25:06.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think we should do a show in Bulgaria for Bobson.
[01:25:06.760 --> 01:25:08.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: I would love to do a show in Bulgaria.
[01:25:08.540 --> 01:25:09.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, it's...
[01:25:09.380 --> 01:25:12.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Try and stop me, but right now, it's kind of hard.
[01:25:12.340 --> 01:25:12.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: But yeah.
[01:25:13.460 --> 01:25:14.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: What is stopping you?
[01:25:16.560 --> 01:25:18.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: 802-321-4225.
[01:25:18.720 --> 01:25:26.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right now, common sense, Alex, is what's stopping me, because like I said, they have the worst vaccine record east of Mississippi.
[01:25:26.520 --> 01:25:27.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, no, no, I mean in Bulgarian.
[01:25:27.700 --> 01:25:29.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: We'll just speak Bulgarian.
[01:25:29.180 --> 01:25:29.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, in Bulgarian.
[01:25:30.200 --> 01:25:30.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[01:25:30.680 --> 01:25:33.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, well, what's stopping me then is not knowing the damn language.
[01:25:33.800 --> 01:25:35.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe I know one word.
[01:25:35.220 --> 01:25:35.900]  You can figure it out.
[01:25:36.660 --> 01:25:37.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[01:25:37.180 --> 01:25:39.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have more to say about the Olympics, or we'll get to that in a second.
[01:25:39.520 --> 01:25:40.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, we have another phone call?
[01:25:40.500 --> 01:25:41.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now they're coming in.
[01:25:41.400 --> 01:25:43.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I believe this is from a nearby state.
[01:25:44.140 --> 01:25:45.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: From a nearby state.
[01:25:45.560 --> 01:25:46.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: In this country.
[01:25:46.760 --> 01:25:47.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: In this country.
[01:25:47.540 --> 01:25:48.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: It starts with a C.
[01:25:48.240 --> 01:25:52.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow, what are you, some kind of a state beginning with a C.
[01:25:53.600 --> 01:25:54.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Nothing coming to mind.
[01:25:54.580 --> 01:25:55.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: California.
[01:25:55.140 --> 01:25:58.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: It also does not have any type of vaccination passport.
[01:25:59.200 --> 01:25:59.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[01:25:59.780 --> 01:26:02.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, California doesn't have any vaccination passport.
[01:26:03.480 --> 01:26:04.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wrong C.
[01:26:04.460 --> 01:26:05.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wrong C.
[01:26:05.380 --> 01:26:05.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[01:26:07.620 --> 01:26:08.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: What are you pointing at, Kyle?
[01:26:08.880 --> 01:26:09.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're pointing north.
[01:26:09.700 --> 01:26:10.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why are you pointing north?
[01:26:10.360 --> 01:26:11.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: How many of them can there be?
[01:26:11.700 --> 01:26:12.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well...
[01:26:12.140 --> 01:26:14.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: It must be in New England then.
[01:26:14.180 --> 01:26:16.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: A state beginning with C, it's in New England.
[01:26:16.060 --> 01:26:17.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's like...
[01:26:17.120 --> 01:26:17.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:26:17.720 --> 01:26:18.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's around there.
[01:26:18.700 --> 01:26:19.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Somewhere.
[01:26:19.900 --> 01:26:20.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Next door.
[01:26:21.860 --> 01:26:23.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know how to spell Massachusetts, right?
[01:26:23.580 --> 01:26:24.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, that's not...
[01:26:24.840 --> 01:26:26.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's got a C, but it's just...
[01:26:26.760 --> 01:26:27.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not quite it.
[01:26:28.160 --> 01:26:28.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyway, maybe...
[01:26:28.740 --> 01:26:30.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: Does Rhode Island have a silent letter in it?
[01:26:30.520 --> 01:26:31.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: It does.
[01:26:31.300 --> 01:26:32.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: Something else?
[01:26:32.400 --> 01:26:33.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's not an island either.
[01:26:34.560 --> 01:26:34.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:26:34.740 --> 01:26:35.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's true.
[01:26:35.240 --> 01:26:35.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Think about that.
[01:26:37.020 --> 01:26:38.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is very true.
[01:26:38.260 --> 01:26:38.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: Huh.
[01:26:39.160 --> 01:26:39.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, uh...
[01:26:39.760 --> 01:26:42.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'll wait here, two Bulgarian medals.
[01:26:42.280 --> 01:26:50.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: One was in 10 meter air pistol for women and women's freestyle wrestling 62 kilo class.
[01:26:51.280 --> 01:26:51.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:26:52.000 --> 01:26:53.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'm impressed that you know that.
[01:26:53.340 --> 01:26:53.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe...
[01:26:53.640 --> 01:26:54.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe you know this too.
[01:26:54.780 --> 01:26:58.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who is leading in the medal count right now?
[01:26:59.900 --> 01:27:01.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, that's a quick Google, but...
[01:27:01.840 --> 01:27:02.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: It is a quick Google.
[01:27:02.840 --> 01:27:03.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're right.
[01:27:05.380 --> 01:27:07.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do people in Connecticut have Google?
[01:27:07.520 --> 01:27:12.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm just wondering, can you take a photograph of your vaccination card and use that in New York?
[01:27:12.940 --> 01:27:16.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, well, mine's posted on our website, so it's easy.
[01:27:16.380 --> 01:27:18.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I did that for everybody's sake.
[01:27:18.360 --> 01:27:18.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Don't say that.
[01:27:18.500 --> 01:27:19.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm trying to share, okay?
[01:27:20.120 --> 01:27:20.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's...
[01:27:21.020 --> 01:27:22.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: What harm could come from that?
[01:27:22.320 --> 01:27:23.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a good question.
[01:27:24.100 --> 01:27:30.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, I think, um, I think it would be, it has all the information.
[01:27:30.500 --> 01:27:48.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, and, and in many cases, people I know, um, in, in stories I've heard about communicating that to your doctor, a scan of it is suitable, obviously, if you can't physically, uh, show them and, and have them transcribe what's there, which is essentially a photo.
[01:27:48.460 --> 01:27:56.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: So it seems like, yeah, if you can approximate what your card says, or even a photocopy, it has the information that anyone would need.
[01:27:57.240 --> 01:27:59.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: And you just present it as such, right?
[01:27:59.120 --> 01:28:00.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Take a picture with the camera on your phone.
[01:28:01.100 --> 01:28:01.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that too, right.
[01:28:01.940 --> 01:28:02.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's, it's an approximation.
[01:28:03.000 --> 01:28:07.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: It shows all the data and you're not representing it as anything other than a photo of it.
[01:28:07.580 --> 01:28:11.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, you're not trying to modify it and say it's a different person.
[01:28:11.820 --> 01:28:17.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I did take a picture of my phone, just for my sake, in case I ever lost everything, except my phone, obviously.
[01:28:18.300 --> 01:28:18.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[01:28:18.900 --> 01:28:26.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was told when I first got my two stamps that they said, don't laminate it in case you need a booster shot and they have to throw a third sticker on it.
[01:28:26.860 --> 01:28:27.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:28:27.200 --> 01:28:33.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: I heard that too, but the odds of the card lasting that long, the way I handle things is, uh, as slim as it is.
[01:28:33.460 --> 01:28:34.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, how's your Google search doing?
[01:28:35.480 --> 01:28:36.500]  You know, where is that?
[01:28:36.800 --> 01:28:39.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you want to know about the, uh, Tokyo Olympics?
[01:28:39.780 --> 01:28:41.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who's got the, who's, who's leading in the medal count?
[01:28:42.840 --> 01:28:44.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Number one, people's Republic of China.
[01:28:44.620 --> 01:28:45.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: That is correct.
[01:28:46.200 --> 01:28:57.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: But if you look at, if you look at NBC, they have manipulated it so that the United States is up on top because they're counting the total number of medals instead of the gold, which is what you're supposed to do.
[01:28:57.640 --> 01:29:00.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I was just kind of, kind of sleazy of NBC to do.
[01:29:00.980 --> 01:29:03.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you go to NBC.com, I'm sure you'll see a different medal count.
[01:29:04.420 --> 01:29:04.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[01:29:05.020 --> 01:29:07.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: The United States has 25, but 79 total.
[01:29:08.120 --> 01:29:08.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[01:29:08.520 --> 01:29:15.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: So the total number is more, but the way they've always listed it is number of gold medals first and China has 32.
[01:29:15.480 --> 01:29:16.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: United States has 25.
[01:29:18.680 --> 01:29:24.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: I guess it's simply a, they're in the United States, they want to put on a good impression.
[01:29:25.020 --> 01:29:25.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh huh.
[01:29:27.800 --> 01:29:28.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:29:28.260 --> 01:29:29.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: They can't fail, right?
[01:29:29.220 --> 01:29:32.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a show of success at all costs.
[01:29:32.880 --> 01:29:34.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or don't bother coming home.
[01:29:34.840 --> 01:29:41.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, it's the, it's the difference, I think, between a qualitative and a quantitative approach to the, to the issue.
[01:29:42.400 --> 01:29:42.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[01:29:43.000 --> 01:29:49.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: The, you, you, Emmanuel seem to be taking a qualitative approach, meaning that the quality You're in lawyer mode, aren't you?
[01:29:50.140 --> 01:29:50.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh my God.
[01:29:51.040 --> 01:30:06.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Then the quantity of the medals, whereas we are taking a, or NBC, I, I would subscribe to the NBC approach being the quantity of the medals is, is actually what matters more than the, uh, than the individual gold medals in any one particular area.
[01:30:07.160 --> 01:30:12.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, if I may, Alex, I would go to the Olympics site themselves and see how they do it.
[01:30:12.180 --> 01:30:14.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you'll find that they list the People's Republic of China as number one.
[01:30:15.060 --> 01:30:21.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: I, I, I don't sheepishly follow the protocols of the, uh, you know, International Olympic Committee.
[01:30:21.420 --> 01:30:22.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's the Olympic Games!
[01:30:22.700 --> 01:30:25.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: If anything, that is what you should be following.
[01:30:25.500 --> 01:30:27.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, you should be able to take your own approach to this.
[01:30:27.900 --> 01:30:30.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, it's a choice between qualitative and quantitative.
[01:30:30.240 --> 01:30:32.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: And everybody knows the IOC hates America.
[01:30:33.040 --> 01:30:33.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: You're getting me so mad.
[01:30:33.600 --> 01:30:34.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm going to burst.
[01:30:34.780 --> 01:30:35.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm kidding.
[01:30:35.520 --> 01:30:35.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Obviously.
[01:30:36.640 --> 01:30:39.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: They do this on the olympics.com, uh, page.
[01:30:40.740 --> 01:30:46.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: First, the gold, then the silver, then the bronze, then the total, then rank by total.
[01:30:47.000 --> 01:30:47.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh.
[01:30:48.300 --> 01:30:51.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: So rank number one is People's Republic of China.
[01:30:51.640 --> 01:30:53.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: However, you go over to rank by total.
[01:30:53.500 --> 01:30:54.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're number two.
[01:30:54.040 --> 01:31:00.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'll, I'll bet somebody put pressure on them to add that, that little field, so that we'd, uh, we do well.
[01:31:00.400 --> 01:31:03.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's see what happens if we, if we fall behind in the total number, too.
[01:31:04.040 --> 01:31:07.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, no, but seriously, it's, it's good to see people trying their best.
[01:31:07.480 --> 01:31:08.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Doesn't matter where they're from so much.
[01:31:08.880 --> 01:31:10.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's, it's, it's pretty awesome.
[01:31:10.260 --> 01:31:11.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: And there are more events.
[01:31:11.840 --> 01:31:13.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's plenty of opportunity.
[01:31:13.340 --> 01:31:14.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Does this ever end, Kyle?
[01:31:15.640 --> 01:31:16.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[01:31:16.420 --> 01:31:17.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then you have the Paralympics.
[01:31:17.740 --> 01:31:18.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're coming up, too.
[01:31:18.260 --> 01:31:18.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Don't forget that.
[01:31:18.780 --> 01:31:19.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: The Paralympics are coming.
[01:31:19.800 --> 01:31:20.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:31:20.380 --> 01:31:23.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, how many golds will, uh, be attained there and by whom?
[01:31:23.960 --> 01:31:24.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's right.
[01:31:24.420 --> 01:31:24.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's right.
[01:31:26.000 --> 01:31:26.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[01:31:26.680 --> 01:31:28.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, what a year this has been.
[01:31:28.300 --> 01:31:30.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Any, um, uh, any other, uh, news from Connecticut?
[01:31:30.840 --> 01:31:31.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[01:31:31.220 --> 01:31:32.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: I know what state it is.
[01:31:32.420 --> 01:31:39.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, I was just, I was just wondering what we're going to do if and when we have to prove everything in our, in the way of vaccination shots.
[01:31:39.560 --> 01:31:43.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, you can't take anybody, unfortunately, by honesty.
[01:31:43.340 --> 01:31:46.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Otherwise we'd all be wearing masks or not wearing masks, whichever the case.
[01:31:46.840 --> 01:31:47.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[01:31:48.280 --> 01:32:01.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think it's going to come down to the institutions and, um, places that absolutely cannot, um, go with, uh, a lot of maximum distancing or, or low numbers of people.
[01:32:02.080 --> 01:32:02.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: They just won't function.
[01:32:03.120 --> 01:32:04.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's transit in schools.
[01:32:04.460 --> 01:32:05.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: All the stuff you're seeing now.
[01:32:05.640 --> 01:32:17.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they're going to kind of take the lead in, in much the, the way we've talked about and, and, you know, businesses making choices for their particular circumstances, their, um, square footage.
[01:32:17.660 --> 01:32:26.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: And there's going to be probably some errors and, um, miscalculations and misinterpretations of what the right way of that is in many cases.
[01:32:26.820 --> 01:32:39.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, um, it's going to take, uh, going beyond just what feels like a government imposition and more like, okay, these, these entities are a part of the community.
[01:32:40.160 --> 01:32:42.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: This maybe is an entity that operates in multiple states.
[01:32:42.720 --> 01:33:01.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: But as those different places start coming up with a criteria that just works, that's kind of funk is, you know, respectful of the law and the, the, the guidelines that are out there, but also just doesn't cripple their business and some, um, happy medium in there is going to have to be found and it's,
[01:33:01.820 --> 01:33:02.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: it's going to take time.
[01:33:03.260 --> 01:33:11.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Currently what I've read is that the FDA is going to certify the, uh, Pfizer and Minerva, uh, Moderna vaccination vaccines in September.
[01:33:12.160 --> 01:33:12.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[01:33:12.960 --> 01:33:18.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: At that point, anybody who had that as an excuse, wouldn't they just line right up and get them?
[01:33:18.560 --> 01:33:19.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: You would think, wouldn't you?
[01:33:20.060 --> 01:33:21.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think we should do what France did.
[01:33:21.540 --> 01:33:26.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Macron came out and said, Hey, well, you know, we're tired of the people who don't want to get vaccinated.
[01:33:26.400 --> 01:33:27.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: You guys stay home.
[01:33:27.180 --> 01:33:30.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you want to go out to a restaurant or whatever, you have to be vaccinated.
[01:33:30.980 --> 01:33:31.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh huh.
[01:33:31.460 --> 01:33:31.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh huh.
[01:33:31.780 --> 01:33:31.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:33:32.120 --> 01:33:33.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think that's cut and dry.
[01:33:33.540 --> 01:33:46.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's kind of, that's kind of what it's boiling down to because the, the letting it just loose and not coming up with something concrete like that just prolongs the, the, what we've all been through.
[01:33:46.180 --> 01:33:49.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've definitely, uh, sensed a change in tone.
[01:33:49.300 --> 01:33:59.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: People are, seem to be less strident as far as, um, uh, opposing getting a vaccine or, or raising all these ridiculous questions, uh, that are easily, uh, proven.
[01:33:59.860 --> 01:34:06.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, and, um, I think, I think they're looking at numbers or they're being confronted with the numbers.
[01:34:06.000 --> 01:34:17.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I, I see more like the, the, the, the governor of what's Alabama who is, uh, she's coming out and blaming people who didn't get vaccinated, even though she was one of the people, uh, who was kind of encouraging that behavior.
[01:34:18.400 --> 01:34:20.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, a lot of people reversing decision.
[01:34:20.340 --> 01:34:29.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: And of course there's commercials or announcements on TV, uh, every day about, gee, you know, now that I'm dying, I wish I'd gotten it.
[01:34:30.160 --> 01:34:30.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:34:31.040 --> 01:34:31.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:34:31.280 --> 01:34:32.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's like you would say something else.
[01:34:32.920 --> 01:34:38.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Of course, I, I remember one, there was a case where they interviewed one guy who was in for COVID.
[01:34:38.440 --> 01:34:41.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: They asked him if he'd take the shot once he got out and he said, no.
[01:34:42.500 --> 01:34:42.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: I know.
[01:34:44.500 --> 01:34:47.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: I believe is a form of natural selection.
[01:34:47.940 --> 01:34:48.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:34:48.380 --> 01:34:49.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, well said.
[01:34:49.340 --> 01:34:49.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely.
[01:34:50.180 --> 01:34:50.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:34:50.480 --> 01:35:01.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's just, it's become, I was talking about the term is this sort of, um, self annihilation or something, um, by being right and not open to being incorrect about it.
[01:35:01.940 --> 01:35:02.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:35:02.120 --> 01:35:03.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alex, this time you do have your hand up.
[01:35:03.660 --> 01:35:03.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead.
[01:35:04.280 --> 01:35:05.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I, I do.
[01:35:05.400 --> 01:35:30.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: I, I disagree with the, with the natural selection, uh, argument here, because I think that there was, was almost a, I think an asymmetric battlefield here when it came to vaccine related information, you had a massive anti-vaccine movement that had been active on various social media platforms for a very,
[01:35:31.000 --> 01:35:31.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: very long time.
[01:35:31.580 --> 01:35:33.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: And they already had these established media channels.
[01:35:33.900 --> 01:35:46.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: And so when it came time to support or oppose the coronavirus vaccine, there were all of these preexisting avenues for people to disseminate misinformation about the vaccine.
[01:35:46.500 --> 01:35:48.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I think they did that extraordinarily effectively.
[01:35:48.500 --> 01:35:58.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I think a lot of these people that are not taking the vaccine, and I know several of them, uh, they're not necessarily dumb, but they've been misled.
[01:35:59.280 --> 01:36:02.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: They've been misled, not by fringe groups.
[01:36:02.160 --> 01:36:08.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: They've been misled by mainstream media, by watching Tucker Carlson, by watching Fox news.
[01:36:08.360 --> 01:36:10.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alex, does natural selection care about intelligence?
[01:36:11.940 --> 01:36:13.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, it should.
[01:36:13.380 --> 01:36:18.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: I know, but, uh, I think it, it, it, it cares about other things too.
[01:36:18.000 --> 01:36:23.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Other, other, uh, uh, elements such as, you know, where you are at a particular point.
[01:36:23.580 --> 01:36:27.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, but again, I disagree that it's even about intelligence here.
[01:36:27.280 --> 01:36:34.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: I, I think it's, it's about people being fed the wrong information by a trusted source.
[01:36:34.620 --> 01:36:35.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: I agree with...
[01:36:35.600 --> 01:36:36.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I think it's very sad.
[01:36:36.860 --> 01:36:56.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: I agree with one, uh, aspect of that, that it is definitely asymmetric and people who otherwise, as I had indicated earlier, I was trying to qualify my terms a little bit, maybe hesitant, are now adamant because they've been inundated and are so, uh, saturated in misinformation.
[01:36:56.320 --> 01:37:17.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: And people who claim to be right or claim something terrible is going on that isn't true, that they're just clinging to what, what feels right or the clings whatever they're left with or, or, or seems, um, safest in, in their worldview.
[01:37:17.180 --> 01:37:32.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I think one particular example that absolutely needs to be talked about and is a evidence of this kind of misinformation is the fallacy that this disease is coming from immigrants.
[01:37:32.340 --> 01:37:34.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that is a huge talking point right now.
[01:37:34.900 --> 01:37:39.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'll tell you why that's a fallacy because they're all being turned away because of Title 42.
[01:37:39.500 --> 01:37:44.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're not getting here because of the disease.
[01:37:44.240 --> 01:37:55.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: That law is being enforced that says we won't allow any migrants in because of the pandemic and the same political ends and, uh, in the, the far right.
[01:37:55.540 --> 01:38:08.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: And like you said, Tucker and then all these, uh, pundits, they're trying to characterize this as something that's this other pet issue of theirs, this immigration thing, when it's a complete misnomer has nothing to do with it.
[01:38:08.540 --> 01:38:14.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: And of course, you know, they'd shout me down and say, ah, they're all the whatever illegal, not the people that are turned away.
[01:38:14.860 --> 01:38:17.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, regardless, it doesn't matter.
[01:38:17.680 --> 01:38:19.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: It, it pales in scale.
[01:38:19.620 --> 01:38:24.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yet that's the kind of information that trusted sources are out there perpetuate.
[01:38:24.280 --> 01:38:27.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: If they could figure out how to blame it on the trans community, they would do it.
[01:38:27.560 --> 01:38:28.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Believe me.
[01:38:28.340 --> 01:38:28.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead, Alex.
[01:38:30.560 --> 01:38:48.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I, I think what I think Kyle's right about this and also that, uh, but psychologically, if you've been misled by this and this has become part of your political identity, this anti-vaxxer cause, you've been out there making statements on social media.
[01:38:48.220 --> 01:38:54.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: There's plenty of record of you entrenched in this anti-vax stance.
[01:38:54.560 --> 01:39:02.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: I just think psychologically, that's like turning around an ocean liner and, and, and trying to get you to admit that you were wrong.
[01:39:03.080 --> 01:39:08.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's very difficult, I think, to, to change people's minds once they're entrenched.
[01:39:08.260 --> 01:39:32.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: And with that in mind, I wonder if, in some small or large way, an impediment to these people who are unvaccinated becoming vaccinated now would be there being a stigma associated with getting the, the, your first dose of the vaccine, let's say in August or September of 2021.
[01:39:32.080 --> 01:39:36.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: Because at this point, you do look like you were an anti-vaxxer.
[01:39:36.360 --> 01:39:39.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: You don't have a religious or a medical exemption.
[01:39:40.000 --> 01:39:57.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I think that our work continually poking fun at people for being idiots or lesser individuals for not having gotten vaccinated or for being misled by the mainstream media and not getting vaccinated does more harm than good and promotes that stigma.
[01:39:57.160 --> 01:39:59.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I think that, you know, we, we want these people to come around.
[01:40:00.160 --> 01:40:02.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: We want to embrace them with open arms.
[01:40:03.040 --> 01:40:03.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm hmm.
[01:40:03.840 --> 01:40:19.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you know, it's interesting you say that, though, because I've, I've also heard of a number of people who get the vaccine, but they are afraid that people will find out they got the vaccine, not to mock them for waiting so long, but to berate them for doing it at all.
[01:40:20.120 --> 01:40:24.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I think that is something really, you know, that needs to be looked at.
[01:40:24.600 --> 01:40:31.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: But I agree, you know, we shouldn't be mocking people and putting them down and calling them stupid and things like that.
[01:40:31.220 --> 01:40:42.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, you know, at some point, it's only natural to lose patience if people refuse to listen to logic and, and, and, and facts that are right there, provable.
[01:40:42.160 --> 01:40:48.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you're just going to disagree with everything that's, that's presented, you can't have any kind of conversation whatsoever.
[01:40:48.000 --> 01:41:00.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, if people are spreading stuff that is straight up lies for the sake of being contrarian, and, and opposing something that they don't, don't align themselves with.
[01:41:00.700 --> 01:41:02.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: And essentially, they know better.
[01:41:02.600 --> 01:41:03.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm going to call them an idiot.
[01:41:04.060 --> 01:41:06.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think that's fair, but people know better.
[01:41:06.020 --> 01:41:22.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: But if they are not able to get the right information, or they haven't informed themselves, and they don't know better than to spread the kind of wrong information, and they're so sure about it and won't listen to anybody else, that obstinance, that's,
[01:41:22.160 --> 01:41:23.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: that's pretty close to idiocy.
[01:41:23.660 --> 01:41:25.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: But they might not know better.
[01:41:25.320 --> 01:41:27.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: They might just be so trusting of these sources.
[01:41:27.540 --> 01:41:33.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I think the sources are where you have to look, because those are the people who are guilty of leading people.
[01:41:34.240 --> 01:41:37.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: And nine times out of 10, those sources have gotten vaccinated.
[01:41:37.900 --> 01:41:40.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it really, it's unforgivable, as far as I'm concerned.
[01:41:41.160 --> 01:41:42.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: We've neglected our caller.
[01:41:42.340 --> 01:41:42.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead.
[01:41:43.600 --> 01:41:51.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, no, no, that says a lot, that the people that are saying that it's your right, you don't have to, if you don't want to, and all that, chances are, they're vaccinated already.
[01:41:51.980 --> 01:41:52.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[01:41:53.560 --> 01:41:53.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[01:41:54.160 --> 01:41:56.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I think that speaks volumes.
[01:41:56.220 --> 01:41:56.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: It sure does.
[01:41:56.960 --> 01:42:00.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Don't, it is a do what I say, not what I do.
[01:42:01.080 --> 01:42:01.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[01:42:02.180 --> 01:42:02.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:42:02.740 --> 01:42:04.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Anyway, I'll jump off and let somebody else get on the phone.
[01:42:04.980 --> 01:42:05.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks for your call.
[01:42:06.520 --> 01:42:07.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Catch you later, guys.
[01:42:07.340 --> 01:42:07.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Take care.
[01:42:07.980 --> 01:42:08.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bye-bye.
[01:42:09.180 --> 01:42:11.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: 802-321-4225.
[01:42:11.720 --> 01:42:16.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Operators are standing by, and we won't be here much longer, so if you have to, what?
[01:42:16.340 --> 01:42:17.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're lounging.
[01:42:17.440 --> 01:42:19.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're lounging, fine, but it's a phrase.
[01:42:19.520 --> 01:42:20.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Operators don't stand anymore.
[01:42:20.820 --> 01:42:21.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, they don't.
[01:42:21.260 --> 01:42:28.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, 802-321-4225 is our telephone number, and we might have time for one more call.
[01:42:28.480 --> 01:42:29.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've seen a few people trying.
[01:42:29.620 --> 01:42:37.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: We can see people trying while we're talking to somebody, which is kind of cool, but we'll try to take one or two more.
[01:42:37.820 --> 01:42:38.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it can be anything.
[01:42:39.640 --> 01:42:40.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Specifically, hacking would be great.
[01:42:40.960 --> 01:42:50.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: If there is a hack you took note of and you want us to investigate or talk about or ask if we've heard about it, please share with us.
[01:42:51.340 --> 01:42:52.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, we have a phone call.
[01:42:52.480 --> 01:42:53.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have a phone call.
[01:42:53.500 --> 01:42:55.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: But anyone is welcome.
[01:42:56.120 --> 01:42:57.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:42:58.180 --> 01:42:58.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: And good evening.
[01:42:59.000 --> 01:43:00.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:43:02.380 --> 01:43:03.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hey, what's going on, guys?
[01:43:04.120 --> 01:43:06.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I kind of chimed in a little bit late.
[01:43:06.900 --> 01:43:10.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: What was the topic for the call-ins?
[01:43:10.680 --> 01:43:13.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Was it the same thing about the vaccine?
[01:43:13.300 --> 01:43:17.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: We've been talking about the vaccine quite a bit, yes, and a couple other things, but mostly that.
[01:43:19.880 --> 01:43:20.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, yeah.
[01:43:20.920 --> 01:43:31.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: I wanted to say, like, I'm somebody that I never took vaccines, and it's been the best thing for me ever since, like, for the past 20 years.
[01:43:31.220 --> 01:43:41.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I don't plan on taking this one, either, no matter what type of mandates they try to, you know, force upon the people.
[01:43:41.840 --> 01:43:43.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's not so much about the mandates.
[01:43:43.940 --> 01:43:48.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's about the health, the health issues.
[01:43:48.940 --> 01:43:51.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, you see the news.
[01:43:51.480 --> 01:43:53.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: You, you know, see the same things we do.
[01:43:54.340 --> 01:43:58.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you not think that the virus is something dangerous?
[01:43:59.740 --> 01:44:00.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, yeah.
[01:44:00.600 --> 01:44:02.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I mean, you see it right now.
[01:44:02.460 --> 01:44:07.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, it's back to almost 100,000 cases a day just in America.
[01:44:09.520 --> 01:44:10.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:44:10.240 --> 01:44:15.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, what would it take for you to want to take some kind of precaution against being one of the people who catches it?
[01:44:17.100 --> 01:44:17.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's do this.
[01:44:18.100 --> 01:44:19.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let me ask you something.
[01:44:19.860 --> 01:44:20.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Have you taken it?
[01:44:21.380 --> 01:44:21.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely.
[01:44:22.840 --> 01:44:23.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think we all have.
[01:44:23.980 --> 01:44:25.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: You took in how many doses?
[01:44:25.980 --> 01:44:26.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Both doses.
[01:44:26.760 --> 01:44:27.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Two doses of the Pfizer.
[01:44:29.880 --> 01:44:32.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you, uh, and you believe in it.
[01:44:33.000 --> 01:44:34.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: I believe in the science.
[01:44:34.760 --> 01:44:42.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: You think, you think, you think that'll, that'll, that'll, uh, that'll, uh, safeguard you from, from, uh, catching the virus?
[01:44:43.560 --> 01:44:43.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:44:44.080 --> 01:44:47.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: 95% effectiveness from what I've, uh, from what I've read.
[01:44:47.920 --> 01:44:49.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have not gotten any symptoms.
[01:44:49.540 --> 01:44:51.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've been able to go outside without a mask.
[01:44:52.240 --> 01:44:54.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, this is reflected all throughout the world.
[01:44:55.240 --> 01:44:58.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you're the pioneer of 2600, right?
[01:44:58.200 --> 01:44:58.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: The pioneer?
[01:44:58.800 --> 01:44:59.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: I wouldn't go that far.
[01:44:59.620 --> 01:45:02.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm definitely part of 2600.
[01:45:03.000 --> 01:45:08.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, uh, I don't see how that in any way conflicts with, uh, the ideology of, of, of Hacker Magazine.
[01:45:08.900 --> 01:45:10.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, it doesn't conflict.
[01:45:10.420 --> 01:45:29.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's just interesting for, for, for, uh, you know, somebody with that kind of, uh, that kind of, uh, brain capacity to go with the vaccine with all the knowledge of vaccines in the, in the, uh, the medical system in America.
[01:45:29.340 --> 01:45:30.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, if you're talking about the history...
[01:45:30.980 --> 01:45:33.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, I'm not, I'm not, like, saying that in an offending way.
[01:45:33.420 --> 01:45:35.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just find that interesting for myself.
[01:45:35.380 --> 01:45:36.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, well, no, I understand...
[01:45:36.840 --> 01:45:43.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, aren't you one of, uh, I thought you were the main one who, uh, who founded the, the, the group?
[01:45:44.640 --> 01:45:51.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I, I, I, I guess you could consider me that, but that's, I don't see how that precludes me from saying, yeah, the science supports this.
[01:45:51.860 --> 01:45:53.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: The, the, the data, uh, adds up.
[01:45:54.640 --> 01:46:04.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: I, I, I understand history of, history of vaccines is, is, is, you know, kind of, um, um, not a good history in this country.
[01:46:04.640 --> 01:46:05.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: I understand that.
[01:46:05.380 --> 01:46:06.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: I understand why there's mistrust.
[01:46:07.740 --> 01:46:10.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, is it something new in our, in our time?
[01:46:10.600 --> 01:46:11.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is what something new?
[01:46:11.640 --> 01:46:14.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Or is it something, you understand what I'm saying?
[01:46:14.420 --> 01:46:17.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I mean, I've, I've had other vaccines as a child.
[01:46:17.160 --> 01:46:20.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've had, uh, I believe the polio vaccine and the smart, the smallpox vaccine.
[01:46:21.020 --> 01:46:23.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, I, I get a flu shot every now and then.
[01:46:23.680 --> 01:46:25.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's not like it's something new for me.
[01:46:27.440 --> 01:46:30.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, uh, you're, you're Emmanuel Goldstein, right?
[01:46:30.620 --> 01:46:31.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's what I'm told.
[01:46:32.720 --> 01:46:33.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's what you're told.
[01:46:35.460 --> 01:46:38.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just wanted to make sure I was talking to the right one.
[01:46:38.280 --> 01:46:41.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, you're pretty much the face of the, of the group though.
[01:46:41.420 --> 01:46:43.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I don't like to consider it that way.
[01:46:43.120 --> 01:46:44.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, I, we have many faces.
[01:46:44.440 --> 01:46:47.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I mean, I'm saying, look, man, I, I got into this when I was a teenager.
[01:46:47.720 --> 01:46:49.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: So I've always kind of looked up to you.
[01:46:49.860 --> 01:46:52.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is the first time I'm actually talking to you.
[01:46:52.600 --> 01:46:54.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's a pleasure to meet you.
[01:46:55.080 --> 01:46:55.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[01:46:55.520 --> 01:46:55.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[01:46:55.820 --> 01:47:02.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, maybe, maybe we should, uh, or how, how, how, what, what's a good way to keep in direct contact with you?
[01:47:02.140 --> 01:47:04.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Like maybe we can have a one-on-one.
[01:47:04.260 --> 01:47:08.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, not if you're not vaccinated, we can't, I don't want to put you at any risk.
[01:47:08.940 --> 01:47:13.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's exactly what would be happening because it's possible that I, we don't have to do it in person.
[01:47:13.360 --> 01:47:13.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:47:13.820 --> 01:47:14.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's good then.
[01:47:16.200 --> 01:47:18.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, I'm not saying I'm going to, I'm going to come to you in person.
[01:47:19.100 --> 01:47:20.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, no, nothing like that.
[01:47:20.080 --> 01:47:24.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm saying like, you know, just, just, just so we get more acquainted with each other.
[01:47:24.740 --> 01:47:27.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: What's, what's a good way for me to contact you?
[01:47:27.880 --> 01:47:35.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, well, I mean, right now, this is a good way to talk to me because I don't really have many other ways, but you can always send email to oth@2600.com.
[01:47:36.060 --> 01:47:37.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I, I see that too.
[01:47:37.800 --> 01:47:45.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, so, uh, those are the ways of communication, but right now, right now we're on the, uh, the radio or whatever you consider the radio on YouTube.
[01:47:45.740 --> 01:47:51.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, and I, I just think this is an important issue that, um, I'm glad you're bringing it up because you represent a lot of people.
[01:47:51.760 --> 01:47:54.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: I was going to get back to that, get back to that topic.
[01:47:54.860 --> 01:47:56.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, so here, here's the thing with me.
[01:47:58.520 --> 01:48:08.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, when we're speaking medicine, medicine is supposed to eliminate an issue in, in, in, in, in, in the way, in the way I view it.
[01:48:08.500 --> 01:48:18.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if you look at the, the, the traditional, uh, forms of medicine is the best form of medicine, which is completely opposite of what modern medicine is.
[01:48:18.520 --> 01:48:29.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Modern medicine, it just, it's, it's, it's just full of all kinds of, uh, of problems and, uh, it's based upon profits.
[01:48:29.820 --> 01:48:32.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: I, I have no disagreement with that.
[01:48:32.400 --> 01:48:32.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely.
[01:48:33.200 --> 01:48:38.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: For instance, you know, cancer drugs, uh, they are designed for cancer to continue.
[01:48:39.020 --> 01:48:44.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're not, if, if, if they were able to cure cancer, uh, they would lose their profits.
[01:48:44.780 --> 01:48:45.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely.
[01:48:45.680 --> 01:48:49.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's in their interest to not cure cancer and just have all these endless drugs.
[01:48:49.720 --> 01:48:50.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: I agree with that.
[01:48:50.480 --> 01:48:50.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely.
[01:48:50.980 --> 01:48:56.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: That doesn't mean that I can't also say that this vaccine is effective in preventing the virus.
[01:48:56.800 --> 01:48:59.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think those two are, are mutually exclusive.
[01:48:59.980 --> 01:49:03.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: So Mr. Goldstein, let me, let me, let me, let me ask you this.
[01:49:04.040 --> 01:49:17.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: What if everyone just stayed home and they mandated the country like they did in the beginning where they restricted everything but essential purposes?
[01:49:17.880 --> 01:49:22.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: What if the virus have gone away faster if they did that for like a good year?
[01:49:22.340 --> 01:49:31.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: If, if, if they had mandated, uh, wearing masks and, and, uh, isolation, um, more strictly, yes, it most definitely...
[01:49:31.700 --> 01:49:33.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Everybody's away from each other.
[01:49:33.260 --> 01:49:40.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: If everybody's away from each other, there's not, there's not any, any, anybody going out unless they really need to go out.
[01:49:41.100 --> 01:49:44.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: The virus doesn't have a host anymore.
[01:49:44.300 --> 01:49:47.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Meaning the virus needs a host to continue on.
[01:49:47.420 --> 01:49:47.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[01:49:48.000 --> 01:49:54.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: So if you do that, you eliminate the chances of spreading because that's how the virus spreads is through what?
[01:49:54.580 --> 01:49:55.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Physical interaction.
[01:49:55.360 --> 01:49:56.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: But we've already lived through 2020.
[01:49:57.000 --> 01:49:58.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Nobody wants to go back to that.
[01:49:58.800 --> 01:50:01.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: It'd be a very tough sell to get people to do that in the first place.
[01:50:01.800 --> 01:50:06.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, but it is there, but, but look, it's necessary for the virus to go away.
[01:50:06.460 --> 01:50:13.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is one of those situations where the way it is right now, we're in this for at least another two years.
[01:50:13.680 --> 01:50:14.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:50:14.120 --> 01:50:15.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's, that, that seems likely at this point.
[01:50:15.720 --> 01:50:21.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: If they don't, if they don't, if they don't look, let me say one more thing and you can, you can have the rest of the time.
[01:50:21.300 --> 01:50:40.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, if they don't do something now, meaning if they don't do a, a, a, a, a strong forced mandate right now where they, they, I mean, I'm not saying we're going to a full lockdown again, but if they don't do that, if the numbers don't drop significantly by the end of this year,
[01:50:41.420 --> 01:50:43.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, it's never going to go away.
[01:50:43.800 --> 01:50:56.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: And what I mean by that, you're, you're going to be looking at maybe, maybe, you know, for, for the rest of this decade, because the way this thing is and the way the variants are popping up, it's not, it's, it's not a game to be played.
[01:50:56.920 --> 01:51:01.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, they're already over capacity in the hospitals again, right now, as we see.
[01:51:01.900 --> 01:51:02.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, absolutely.
[01:51:03.280 --> 01:51:07.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I'm just saying, and I'm just speaking for this America and other countries.
[01:51:08.240 --> 01:51:12.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's even worse on top of the flooding, on top of the wildfires.
[01:51:13.540 --> 01:51:23.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, look at, look at, uh, New Zealand, Australia, you have, you have, you have, you have an entire catastrophe right now globally.
[01:51:25.760 --> 01:51:26.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[01:51:26.740 --> 01:51:37.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you know, New Zealand, Australia had this pretty much lick last year, you know, they were doing great, but then a few cases got in and now they're, they're in trouble again.
[01:51:37.360 --> 01:51:38.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, you're, you're right.
[01:51:38.400 --> 01:51:44.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: As long as it's still happening in the rest of the world, we can, we can get everybody vaccine, uh, vaccinated in this country.
[01:51:44.960 --> 01:51:52.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: We can, we can say we've, we've, we've beaten the virus, but if, if there are still countries that have not, it's eventually going to come right back to us.
[01:51:53.880 --> 01:51:59.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: But the vaccination, look, the vaccination, it also takes a toll on your health.
[01:51:59.900 --> 01:52:06.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we don't know that what the, uh, I'm not saying you're wrong, but we don't know yet what that might be.
[01:52:06.360 --> 01:52:16.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: If there is any toll whatsoever, we do know there have been extensive tests in the, uh, in, in, uh, nearly a year that, um, that we had to develop this.
[01:52:16.180 --> 01:52:28.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: And also, um, coronavirus vaccines have been, um, researched well beyond 2019 and, and, and, and before that, so it's not like they're going into something without any knowledge whatsoever.
[01:52:28.880 --> 01:52:30.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, there's a risk to anything.
[01:52:30.680 --> 01:52:37.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not saying there's no risk, but the risk pales in comparison to the risk of being exposed to this very deadly virus.
[01:52:37.180 --> 01:52:40.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's, that's really, I don't think I can emphasize that any, any more.
[01:52:41.320 --> 01:52:47.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: I understand what you're saying, but it also, you have to look at what it does to our body in the future of mankind.
[01:52:47.880 --> 01:52:50.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's going to genetically change everybody.
[01:52:51.160 --> 01:52:54.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: If, if, if, if, if anyone goes about taking, that is just not true.
[01:52:54.660 --> 01:52:56.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: It has, it does not do anything to your DNA.
[01:52:56.620 --> 01:52:59.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's just, that's, that's just not true.
[01:53:00.020 --> 01:53:05.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, all, all, all of these, all of these, uh, these types of things do.
[01:53:05.560 --> 01:53:07.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Even the food you eat changes your DNA.
[01:53:08.280 --> 01:53:08.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:53:08.580 --> 01:53:14.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'm, I'm, I'm not a medical professional and I, I, I'm certainly not an expert on these things, but I do know that.
[01:53:14.540 --> 01:53:15.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: I do know this has been proven.
[01:53:15.880 --> 01:53:16.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: I do.
[01:53:16.160 --> 01:53:21.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: There are many, many sources where you can look and, and see the data as far as, uh, as far as that goes.
[01:53:21.560 --> 01:53:24.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, but listen, uh, we have to wrap this up because we're almost out of time.
[01:53:24.680 --> 01:53:26.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Any, any, uh, concluding remarks from you?
[01:53:26.740 --> 01:53:27.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's not going to end it.
[01:53:28.560 --> 01:53:28.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[01:53:30.040 --> 01:53:30.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: You hear what I said?
[01:53:31.260 --> 01:53:33.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, I don't think I heard the part before that.
[01:53:33.420 --> 01:53:37.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: I said, if everybody in the country got vaccinated, that wouldn't end it.
[01:53:37.860 --> 01:53:43.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, because, because the country is attached to the world and, uh, and that's, uh, that's right.
[01:53:44.120 --> 01:53:47.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: So then that, that, that means the vaccine is useless.
[01:53:47.680 --> 01:53:52.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, it's useless if it's not, not, not just for an intended purpose.
[01:53:52.240 --> 01:53:56.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: If it's not evenly applied, everything that comes, the side effects that come with it.
[01:53:57.000 --> 01:53:57.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[01:53:57.240 --> 01:54:02.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: If it's, if it's not applied to everybody equally, if everybody doesn't have access to it, then yes, you're right.
[01:54:02.600 --> 01:54:04.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: It, it is useless in the end.
[01:54:04.940 --> 01:54:07.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, um, uh, Alex, I think you, you wanted to add something?
[01:54:08.940 --> 01:54:13.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I, I, I think the caller is absolutely wrong when he says that the vaccine is useless.
[01:54:14.380 --> 01:54:21.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: And that's because you're, you're conflating the, the purpose of the, of the vaccine with something with which it is not.
[01:54:21.500 --> 01:54:31.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: The purpose of the vaccine is not to stamp out the virus from the existence, uh, from its existence on this earth in its entirety.
[01:54:32.060 --> 01:54:33.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: The vaccine isn't going to do that.
[01:54:33.960 --> 01:54:34.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is a virus.
[01:54:35.080 --> 01:54:36.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's very much like the flu.
[01:54:36.520 --> 01:54:47.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: We get a flu vaccine every single year to make sure that we are taking preventative measures from, you know, losing four or five days from work every winter or every fall.
[01:54:47.240 --> 01:54:48.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's much less effective.
[01:54:48.820 --> 01:54:50.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, much less effective.
[01:54:50.420 --> 01:54:55.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: This vaccine is to save our, we're own lives from this virus.
[01:54:55.420 --> 01:55:02.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: It decreases the likelihood that you were going to be hospitalized, intubated, and die from catching this virus.
[01:55:02.860 --> 01:55:07.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: It does not mean that the purpose of the virus is to rid it from this earth.
[01:55:08.140 --> 01:55:11.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: We're already talking about booster shot after booster shot, treating this like the flu.
[01:55:12.200 --> 01:55:14.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: We're talking about getting the virus under control.
[01:55:15.120 --> 01:55:18.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's the purpose of the vaccine, not the eradication of the virus.
[01:55:18.640 --> 01:55:21.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: The virus is probably here to stay for quite a long time.
[01:55:21.520 --> 01:55:24.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: But with a vaccination, it's manageable.
[01:55:27.660 --> 01:55:28.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:55:28.060 --> 01:55:29.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're going to have to leave it there.
[01:55:29.380 --> 01:55:32.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: But thanks for calling and best of luck to you.
[01:55:34.400 --> 01:55:35.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[01:55:35.440 --> 01:55:36.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[01:55:37.560 --> 01:55:40.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I guess that's going to do it for us tonight on Off Look Overtime.
[01:55:40.480 --> 01:55:42.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's been over an hour.
[01:55:42.360 --> 01:55:47.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: And wow, you know, I do like hearing different opinions on these things.
[01:55:47.500 --> 01:55:48.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: But it troubles me.
[01:55:48.840 --> 01:55:56.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: It troubles me when you just can't seem to reach people on these important issues.
[01:55:56.980 --> 01:55:59.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's just so important to stay healthy.
[01:55:59.980 --> 01:56:04.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it ain't going to happen if you're susceptible to this virus.
[01:56:04.980 --> 01:56:06.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Doesn't mean you're definitely going to get it.
[01:56:06.340 --> 01:56:09.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: You might get it and survive it.
[01:56:10.620 --> 01:56:13.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you could then spread it to more people.
[01:56:13.680 --> 01:56:15.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's something that we don't have to do.
[01:56:16.060 --> 01:56:23.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: And absent solid evidence of any kind of threat from the vaccine, which simply has not come about.
[01:56:23.680 --> 01:56:28.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: I know there are plenty of people who say it exists, but they're not doctors.
[01:56:28.860 --> 01:56:30.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're not scientists that are saying this.
[01:56:32.680 --> 01:56:38.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Without that, it's very hard for me to take that position seriously.
[01:56:39.520 --> 01:56:53.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think people are, you know, being convinced, being listening, and they're trying some of their ideas and their perceptions and what they've been hearing.
[01:56:53.380 --> 01:57:00.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: And just discussing it with people and trying to sift through that with friends and family is important.
[01:57:00.100 --> 01:57:03.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we're hopefully part of that, a small part of your family out there.
[01:57:03.940 --> 01:57:23.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, and yeah, it's going to take that to meet people where they're at and get past, you know, discerning if there's just no way to reach someone or they're, you know, really putting out a lot of idiotic information.
[01:57:24.460 --> 01:57:34.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: You meet them there, you find out what their concerns are, and help them understand where some of that has come from and perhaps other ways of looking at it.
[01:57:34.920 --> 01:57:37.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's the most I think you can do, but it's definitely happening.
[01:57:37.900 --> 01:57:40.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Ask yourself, are you open to being wrong?
[01:57:40.320 --> 01:57:42.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I like to think that I am.
[01:57:42.440 --> 01:57:49.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: I look at news developments, I look at numbers and statistics and things like that.
[01:57:49.700 --> 01:57:54.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: And facts change, you know, your perspective changes.
[01:57:54.880 --> 01:57:58.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: What was true last year is not necessarily true this year.
[01:57:58.760 --> 01:58:01.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sometimes we're told that wearing a mask is effective.
[01:58:01.780 --> 01:58:03.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sometimes it's not so effective.
[01:58:03.180 --> 01:58:04.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sometimes you have to wash your hands.
[01:58:04.940 --> 01:58:06.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Other times you have to worry about airborne.
[01:58:07.460 --> 01:58:08.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: We learn more.
[01:58:08.760 --> 01:58:09.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Things change.
[01:58:09.360 --> 01:58:10.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Doesn't mean that we don't know what we're talking about.
[01:58:10.960 --> 01:58:14.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: It just means that we're all learning more day after day.
[01:58:14.320 --> 01:58:18.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, you know, your perception today may be wrong tomorrow.
[01:58:18.220 --> 01:58:21.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: You have to be open to that without dismissing the entire thing.
[01:58:21.180 --> 01:58:23.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: But that goes for all sides.
[01:58:23.240 --> 01:58:29.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you are vehement against getting a vaccine, you have to be open to being wrong about your conclusions.
[01:58:29.280 --> 01:58:33.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you're not open to that, there's no way that you can be reached.
[01:58:33.840 --> 01:58:35.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: There is simply no way.
[01:58:35.320 --> 01:58:51.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'd like to think that the side that I'm speaking for right now, that we are open to hearing alternate facts, to coin a phrase, to hearing something that's different, learning something.
[01:58:51.140 --> 01:58:51.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's what science is.
[01:58:52.000 --> 01:58:58.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Science is all about what's true today is not necessarily true tomorrow because of additional information.
[01:58:58.760 --> 01:59:00.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, that's what science is.
[01:59:00.620 --> 01:59:03.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's what scientists are always working on in labs.
[01:59:04.360 --> 01:59:10.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: And as soon as we close ourselves off to that, we're just as hopeless as anybody else who has a closed mind.
[01:59:10.120 --> 01:59:14.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: We all have to be open to being wrong, to being convinced otherwise.
[01:59:14.720 --> 01:59:16.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Keep that dialogue open.
[01:59:16.720 --> 01:59:17.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alex?
[01:59:18.480 --> 01:59:28.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: I just think it's really interesting how the calls in the show tonight really bore out the very points that we were talking about earlier in the show.
[01:59:29.180 --> 01:59:30.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: And this openness to being wrong.
[01:59:31.080 --> 01:59:35.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: And also, you know, what I want to emphasize is that it's okay to be wrong.
[01:59:35.980 --> 01:59:45.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: And yeah, we should be embracing people that change their mind with open arms, more than open arms, willing to give them a back rub when they get vaccinated.
[01:59:46.440 --> 01:59:49.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: And let's hold off here for before we commit to anything.
[01:59:50.400 --> 01:59:50.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[01:59:51.120 --> 01:59:51.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, let's that.
[01:59:51.840 --> 01:59:52.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: I agree.
[01:59:52.500 --> 01:59:55.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: Any more physical contact, you know, we might lose it.
[01:59:55.500 --> 02:00:01.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: But in any event, you know, I think it's great if people change their mind, and we should really be open to that.
[02:00:01.540 --> 02:00:03.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: We should be encouraging it without stigma.
[02:00:04.760 --> 02:00:05.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's it for me.
[02:00:05.660 --> 02:00:05.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Agreed.
[02:00:06.500 --> 02:00:07.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Closing thoughts, Kyle?
[02:00:08.120 --> 02:00:08.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, yep.
[02:00:09.180 --> 02:00:10.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm right there with you.
[02:00:10.700 --> 02:00:14.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think, yeah, this conversation has been valuable in that.
[02:00:15.080 --> 02:00:16.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's more to know.
[02:00:17.340 --> 02:00:37.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I just, I really hope people find some kind of camaraderie or solidarity in how many other people are working on this and care incredibly deeply about getting this right and making sure people remain healthy and can continue to live and so forth.
[02:00:37.960 --> 02:00:47.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I don't know what else to say other than the strategies and the tips that we have.
[02:00:48.680 --> 02:00:54.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're the best stuff that we've kind of come to from our understanding and our reading of it.
[02:00:54.680 --> 02:01:02.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're not here to say that scientists or the pharmaceutical industry or doctors themselves are not to be critiqued.
[02:01:02.780 --> 02:01:14.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's plenty there to critique, but this is a particularly bad time to be trying to find any little thing to discredit something that is having such a profound effect in saving people's lives.
[02:01:14.280 --> 02:01:24.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it is possible to believe that pharmaceutical companies are equivalent to Satan, and I do, and also believe that the vaccine is effective, which I believe.
[02:01:25.520 --> 02:01:30.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or that natural health remedies are effective.
[02:01:30.940 --> 02:01:33.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: They are, but not for everything.
[02:01:33.700 --> 02:01:34.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: It depends.
[02:01:34.660 --> 02:01:35.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Everything is different.
[02:01:35.460 --> 02:01:40.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Preventative medicine is an important thing to study rather than just reactive.
[02:01:40.540 --> 02:01:41.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's embrace the nuance.
[02:01:41.900 --> 02:01:44.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: There is nuance, but there's also stuff that's flat wrong.
[02:01:44.980 --> 02:01:48.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: But if you're dead set against getting a vaccine, at least take care of yourself in other ways.
[02:01:48.800 --> 02:01:49.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wear a mask.
[02:01:50.100 --> 02:01:51.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Don't hang out in crowds.
[02:01:51.960 --> 02:01:56.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: And let's stick this thing through and make it to the other side.
[02:01:57.080 --> 02:01:58.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rob, Gila, any closing thoughts from you guys?
[02:02:01.740 --> 02:02:05.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like if I say too much, this could turn into a rant.
[02:02:05.780 --> 02:02:12.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: But the thing is, your decisions on this one do not just affect you.
[02:02:13.940 --> 02:02:15.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the thing.
[02:02:15.960 --> 02:02:23.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: And you have to remember that not being vaccinated makes it easier to spread this.
[02:02:23.380 --> 02:02:26.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: The things that you do are going to affect other people.
[02:02:26.900 --> 02:02:31.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I have friends who are doctors who are sharing on social media.
[02:02:31.400 --> 02:02:46.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: One was saying that she has a patient in the pediatric ICU who's intubated now and had to be alone because their parent to whom they also gave the virus is intubated in the adult ICU is intubated in the adult ICU.
[02:02:46.560 --> 02:02:47.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is real.
[02:02:48.280 --> 02:02:49.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's scary.
[02:02:50.020 --> 02:02:58.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: And as much as you want to say, my choices don't affect anybody but me, they really do.
[02:02:59.400 --> 02:03:16.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I am terrified of what we could be going back to because people are not trying to pull the weight of the whole... people are not taking responsibility for the other people around them right now.
[02:03:17.380 --> 02:03:21.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: And what could we be going back to if people don't want to try?
[02:03:22.820 --> 02:03:26.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it makes me sad and it makes me scared and it makes me frustrated.
[02:03:28.040 --> 02:03:31.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: And mostly it makes me angry.
[02:03:32.460 --> 02:03:33.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[02:03:34.060 --> 02:03:34.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well said.
[02:03:35.300 --> 02:03:42.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you know, I think it's important also to just clarify certain things when people say, oh, you're able to spread it after getting the vaccine.
[02:03:42.840 --> 02:03:44.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: That means the vaccine doesn't work.
[02:03:44.540 --> 02:03:46.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, that's not what it means at all.
[02:03:46.040 --> 02:03:52.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because if the vaccine didn't work, then you'd be getting sick as well, which in the vast majority of cases, that does not happen.
[02:03:53.020 --> 02:04:00.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: However, if you are one of the rare breakthrough cases, and they are rare, about maybe, I think, one in 20.
[02:04:00.340 --> 02:04:04.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: And remember, that's the 90% effectiveness rating.
[02:04:04.260 --> 02:04:12.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: So about one in 20 people will wind up, or one in 10, one in 15, something like that.
[02:04:13.020 --> 02:04:14.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Where is it one in 20, you said?
[02:04:14.480 --> 02:04:15.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is it one in 20?
[02:04:15.380 --> 02:04:21.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's something like that, where you will actually catch it even though you've been vaccinated.
[02:04:21.920 --> 02:04:22.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: It does happen.
[02:04:23.280 --> 02:04:30.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of those people, a very small percentage, like one in 1,000, will get sick, like significantly sick where they have to go to a hospital.
[02:04:31.440 --> 02:04:38.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's a very, very, very low percentage of people that have the vaccine and wind up in the hospital or worse, dying from it.
[02:04:39.020 --> 02:04:40.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: It does happen.
[02:04:40.140 --> 02:04:41.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we're not surprised by this.
[02:04:41.860 --> 02:04:42.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: We've been told this from the beginning.
[02:04:44.140 --> 02:04:55.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: But the thing to remember is that if you are one of those breakthrough cases, the one in 10 or 20, whatever it happens to be, while you won't get sick, you do have the ability to spread the disease to others.
[02:04:55.040 --> 02:04:57.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if they're not vaccinated, they will get sick.
[02:04:57.800 --> 02:04:59.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Most likely, they will get sick.
[02:04:59.360 --> 02:05:00.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: So that is the danger.
[02:05:00.840 --> 02:05:02.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: That is the danger right now.
[02:05:02.140 --> 02:05:06.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because the more people who are unvaccinated, the more the virus is out there.
[02:05:06.700 --> 02:05:11.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it can be spread to people who are vaccinated and have those breakthrough cases.
[02:05:11.860 --> 02:05:13.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then they can spread it to more people.
[02:05:13.360 --> 02:05:15.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's just, it's not worth it.
[02:05:15.360 --> 02:05:18.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not worth having this dance continue much longer.
[02:05:18.120 --> 02:05:19.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's easy to fix.
[02:05:19.940 --> 02:05:21.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, and we can all move on.
[02:05:22.020 --> 02:05:36.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: And when you think of all the, the health risks that we're exposed to on a daily basis, whether it's air pollution, or just cancer causing ingredients and things like that, or all sorts of other toxic things we put into our bodies.
[02:05:38.080 --> 02:05:40.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is trivial.
[02:05:40.620 --> 02:05:47.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: It is so incredibly trivial and, uh, unproven as far as any kind of harm, uh, that has been caused.
[02:05:47.600 --> 02:05:59.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: We will learn more, obviously, uh, and, and things could change, but I really, really don't think based on what we know so far that we're going to see any kind of, uh, a really dire, uh, outlook for anybody who has taken the vaccine.
[02:05:59.780 --> 02:06:00.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, yes, Kayla.
[02:06:01.460 --> 02:06:07.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's also, it's really important to remember because people are saying, Oh, most people don't die from it.
[02:06:07.500 --> 02:06:08.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not going to get the vaccine.
[02:06:09.400 --> 02:06:16.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's really important to remember that like so many things in life, COVID is not on a binary.
[02:06:17.120 --> 02:06:20.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not, you get it and you die or you get it and you're fine.
[02:06:21.520 --> 02:06:28.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: There are long-term effects that people are dealing with that are not going away.
[02:06:28.620 --> 02:06:31.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just, you could survive it.
[02:06:31.180 --> 02:06:33.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: There are so many impacts that it could have on you.
[02:06:34.180 --> 02:06:36.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just a question of living or dying.
[02:06:36.400 --> 02:06:37.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: There are so many pieces to it.
[02:06:37.820 --> 02:06:38.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll get it this way.
[02:06:38.520 --> 02:06:39.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: So we need to bear in mind also.
[02:06:39.540 --> 02:06:41.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Most people get hit by a car don't die.
[02:06:41.700 --> 02:06:41.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[02:06:42.660 --> 02:06:44.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Doesn't mean you should want to get hit by a car.
[02:06:46.000 --> 02:06:46.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: Absolutely.
[02:06:46.680 --> 02:06:46.680]  Exactly.
[02:06:47.100 --> 02:06:48.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, Angela, you're absolutely right.
[02:06:48.360 --> 02:06:51.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: The repeated hospitalizations and, uh, lingering effects so forth and so forth.
[02:06:52.000 --> 02:07:00.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: We look, we, we have a lot more, um, confidence in the, the side effects and the safety of the vaccine than we do the disease itself.
[02:07:02.080 --> 02:07:03.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rob, any closing thoughts from you?
[02:07:05.120 --> 02:07:06.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, that was all very well said.
[02:07:06.640 --> 02:07:10.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Also just to go back to the subject of like, it's okay to be wrong.
[02:07:11.020 --> 02:07:12.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's okay to learn.
[02:07:12.660 --> 02:07:25.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, you know, I don't, I don't know anything about the caller other than, uh, what they shared on the air, but, uh, you know, some people have their identities wrapped up in being on one side or the other.
[02:07:25.620 --> 02:07:29.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, you know, it's like being a fan of a sports team, except it matters in real life.
[02:07:30.060 --> 02:07:36.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the, the, uh, the, the thing here is that, you know, it's okay to learn.
[02:07:36.220 --> 02:07:37.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: I, I don't enjoy being wrong.
[02:07:37.800 --> 02:07:38.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Nobody enjoys being wrong.
[02:07:38.940 --> 02:07:44.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: We all like to think we have some kind of handle on this, uh, crazy world we're all living in and what's going on around us.
[02:07:44.280 --> 02:07:46.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I really enjoy finding out I was wrong.
[02:07:46.820 --> 02:07:50.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've said things on this program that turned out to be completely wrong.
[02:07:50.360 --> 02:07:55.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, you know, I was corrected either by one of my colleagues here on the, on the show or by listeners afterward.
[02:07:56.000 --> 02:08:09.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, it doesn't feel good to have, to have, uh, to learn that, you know, I said something that was total rubbish on the air, but it's better to, uh, to know that and, uh, to go forward with a better handle on the world.
[02:08:09.380 --> 02:08:14.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, you know, knowledge is power and go out there, gain some knowledge and, uh, use that power for good.
[02:08:15.260 --> 02:08:20.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think you're wrong about, uh, talking rubbish on the, I don't think you ever did that.
[02:08:21.300 --> 02:08:24.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think you're trying to take credit for something that someone else might've done.
[02:08:25.220 --> 02:08:27.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, but we can talk about that after the show too.
[02:08:29.100 --> 02:08:29.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Look forward to it.
[02:08:30.300 --> 02:08:30.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[02:08:30.660 --> 02:08:31.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's it.
[02:08:31.200 --> 02:08:32.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, please write to us.
[02:08:32.220 --> 02:08:33.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: oth@2600.com.
[02:08:33.920 --> 02:08:36.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Pleasure talking to everybody, but I want to talk about other things.
[02:08:36.460 --> 02:08:45.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: I want to get past this already for God's sake, people get the damn vaccine so we can move on and get back to life, which wasn't the most pleasant thing in the world before, but still it was better than this.
[02:08:46.240 --> 02:08:49.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, look forward to talking next week about other things, hopefully as well.
[02:08:49.940 --> 02:08:53.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, looking forward to seeing improvement all throughout.
[02:08:53.000 --> 02:08:54.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good night.
[02:08:54.260 --> 02:08:54.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good night.