Off The Hook - 2021-12-22

[00:00.000 --> 00:02.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: I hope the sergeant never traces that call.
[00:03.000 --> 00:04.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: You like to play games, don't you?
[00:05.000 --> 00:06.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Kick out the jam!
[00:10.740 --> 00:13.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is Wayne Kramer from the MC5.
[00:14.260 --> 00:18.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody kicks out the jam like WBAI New York.
[00:20.520 --> 00:23.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the station you're tuned to, 7pm.
[00:24.320 --> 00:25.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: Time now for Off The Hook.
[00:26.280 --> 00:29.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: Take it away, guys and gals.
[00:35.710 --> 00:36.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: And gals.
[00:49.030 --> 00:50.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[00:50.670 --> 00:54.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: The program is Off The Hook on WBAI New York.
[00:55.450 --> 00:56.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Coming up.
[01:20.910 --> 01:23.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, the sun is good on WBAI New York.
[02:31.070 --> 02:32.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:32.510 --> 02:35.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: The program is Off The Hook, as mentioned.
[02:37.190 --> 02:40.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein, joined by Kyle.
[02:41.330 --> 02:41.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Over here.
[02:42.510 --> 02:43.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are you over there?
[02:44.450 --> 02:45.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow, okay.
[02:45.690 --> 02:46.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Try that again.
[02:47.870 --> 02:48.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: A little hot.
[02:49.110 --> 02:50.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who messes with the equipment every week?
[02:50.730 --> 02:52.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Every week we have to reset everything.
[02:53.150 --> 02:56.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, over in Skype-land, and that's always changing, I know.
[02:57.070 --> 02:57.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have Gila.
[02:58.650 --> 02:59.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hello!
[02:59.990 --> 03:01.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Caught you off guard there.
[03:01.390 --> 03:02.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have Alex.
[03:03.330 --> 03:04.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[03:04.350 --> 03:05.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we have Rob.
[03:05.690 --> 03:06.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[03:06.750 --> 03:06.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: T. Firefly.
[03:07.890 --> 03:08.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Please wait for your full name.
[03:09.490 --> 03:10.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: And good evening to everybody.
[03:11.130 --> 03:14.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's, I guess, a holiday edition of the show here.
[03:15.150 --> 03:21.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: First of all, I want to thank everybody who called in last week to pledge and to keep the station moving forward.
[03:21.590 --> 03:22.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: We are paying...
[03:22.870 --> 03:23.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Get this.
[03:23.590 --> 03:29.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: We are paying off our transmitter bill for the next year by raising $250,000.
[03:29.990 --> 03:32.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we've had a great response so far.
[03:33.110 --> 03:37.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: And all you've got to do is call 212-209-2950 and pledge any amount.
[03:37.990 --> 03:39.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: It can be a monthly amount.
[03:39.190 --> 03:40.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: It can be a one lump sum.
[03:41.550 --> 03:44.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: All kinds of premiums that you can get in exchange for this.
[03:44.430 --> 03:46.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: But the biggest premium of all is WBAI.
[03:47.310 --> 03:53.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: And the knowledge that we will not be going off the air because we are not paying our bills.
[03:53.790 --> 03:57.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: We actually are on top of it now for the first time in a long time.
[03:57.730 --> 03:59.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sure we've been on top of bills in the past before.
[03:59.750 --> 04:05.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can also go to Give2WBAI.org and make your pledge that way.
[04:07.230 --> 04:11.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Give2WBAI.org and you'll see all kinds of different premiums there.
[04:11.610 --> 04:13.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you'll be able to use your credit card.
[04:14.190 --> 04:15.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: And please spread the word about this too.
[04:15.990 --> 04:26.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're having this special fund drive blitz until the end of the year so that we can raise money for the transmitter next year and not have to worry about it.
[04:26.650 --> 04:27.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Won't that be amazing?
[04:29.010 --> 04:30.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Again, 212-209-2950.
[04:31.090 --> 04:35.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Before we move on with the show, I'll open it up to anybody else who might have something to say on this subject.
[04:35.630 --> 04:38.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Please just raise your hand as you're in all different parts of the country.
[04:38.950 --> 04:39.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rob T.
[04:39.630 --> 04:40.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Firefly, go ahead.
[04:41.550 --> 04:41.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[04:42.690 --> 04:49.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is really wild because, as we said last week, we are actually getting ahead of the game financially as a station.
[04:50.170 --> 04:52.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that is awesome for us.
[04:52.010 --> 05:00.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you've been listening to this program, this station, for any length of time, you may know that that has been a difficulty for us for a while.
[05:00.570 --> 05:17.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the fact that there is light at the end of the tunnel, that with the help of you, the listeners, we've been able to keep this station running as it has since 1960, just purely on the generosity of the listeners who want to throw in their support and keep this place going,
[05:17.350 --> 05:19.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: keep the lights on, keep the transmitter transmitting.
[05:19.190 --> 05:38.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you can check out our special donation page for this campaign at towerfund.wbai.org and check out what we're doing, why we're doing it, and a little explanation of the fact that we have a big transmitter rent to pay and your help with it is appreciated and vital.
[05:38.690 --> 05:45.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, or you could go to, or you could pick up your phone and dial 212-209-2950.
[05:45.970 --> 05:52.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: You could be a WBAI buddy where you donate a small amount automatically every month, or you could make a one-time donation.
[05:52.630 --> 06:00.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Those of you who like to wait for the end of the year to get your last little charitable contributions of the year in, that's now.
[06:00.070 --> 06:03.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's the end of the year, and we would very much appreciate that.
[06:03.250 --> 06:10.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212-209-2950 or towerfund.wbai.org and keep us doing what we're doing.
[06:10.810 --> 06:13.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, radio is such a magical thing.
[06:14.050 --> 06:14.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: It really is.
[06:15.070 --> 06:22.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Those of you who listen to radio know that when you find a particularly good radio station, it matters.
[06:23.270 --> 06:27.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: We just, Kyle and I just watched a documentary on a station called WBCN in Boston.
[06:27.630 --> 06:28.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: You might have heard of this station.
[06:29.090 --> 06:32.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was part of a series of stations that were bought.
[06:33.970 --> 06:39.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: This particular one was bought by a bunch of hippies, actually, up in Boston in, I think, 1968.
[06:41.210 --> 06:45.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they basically started playing rock and roll music in ways that had never been played before.
[06:46.330 --> 06:51.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we were watching this documentary and realizing, wow, there's so much that is similar to WBAI here.
[06:52.050 --> 06:53.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of course, there it's mostly about music.
[06:53.910 --> 06:57.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: There, it's very focused.
[06:57.890 --> 07:01.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: But the attitude, the spirit was the same.
[07:01.850 --> 07:10.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what was particularly sad about this documentary, we saw the beginnings of WBCN as an alternative rock station.
[07:11.460 --> 07:12.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: It lasted until about 1974.
[07:12.990 --> 07:17.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Then it became so popular that it was lost.
[07:17.610 --> 07:31.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was so successful, yeah, that the copycat phenomena, I think, made it something like sort of a template, ultimately.
[07:31.430 --> 07:31.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[07:31.690 --> 07:39.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: That was adopted and widely copied, and that made it less unique in the airwaves.
[07:39.110 --> 07:53.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: There were musicians that would just stop by the studio and sing songs on the air, things that everyone says you could never do today because you'd have to have managers and record companies involved and all this money passing back and forth.
[07:53.430 --> 07:58.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Whereas then, it was all about the music, all about the spirit, all about the alternative.
[07:59.130 --> 08:05.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that station, it might even still exist, but it's lost as far as that particular spirit.
[08:05.650 --> 08:08.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here at WBAI, we never lost the spirit.
[08:09.010 --> 08:26.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: You might say we're stuck in that period, but you'd be wrong because we have been moving forward in all different directions, covering all kinds of different subject matter and playing all kinds of music and exposing people to different views and different perspectives,
[08:26.850 --> 08:29.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: which is what alternative radio is all about.
[08:29.990 --> 08:36.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: So you will see these occasional sparkles of radio stations, especially in the early days.
[08:36.510 --> 08:39.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: It is very rare for a radio station to survive.
[08:39.350 --> 08:47.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what Pacifica has done with the five stations that they own throughout the country is preserve that spirit.
[08:47.470 --> 08:50.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I think that's a really, really important thing to support.
[08:50.950 --> 08:54.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's why we continue to do this week after week.
[08:54.270 --> 08:57.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's why we ask you to invest in WBAI.
[08:58.330 --> 09:02.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you see what your investments have done over the past couple of years.
[09:02.510 --> 09:05.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: A couple of years ago, we were literally out in the street.
[09:05.430 --> 09:10.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: We got kicked into the street by evil forces that took over Pacifica.
[09:10.290 --> 09:11.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: It can happen.
[09:11.150 --> 09:12.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: It can happen to anything.
[09:12.270 --> 09:12.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: It can happen to the U.S.
[09:12.970 --> 09:13.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: government.
[09:13.210 --> 09:15.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: It can happen to the radio network.
[09:15.630 --> 09:17.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: It can happen in your household.
[09:17.490 --> 09:19.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's all kinds of evil forces that can always take over.
[09:20.370 --> 09:21.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we fought back.
[09:21.670 --> 09:23.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: And our listeners fought back.
[09:23.150 --> 09:24.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we won.
[09:24.210 --> 09:25.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: We won the station back.
[09:26.510 --> 09:28.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that was the first victory.
[09:28.190 --> 09:34.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: The next victory is that we are climbing up out of debt and actually moving forward.
[09:34.790 --> 09:45.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: And instead of being dead last in the five stations as far as paying bills, I think we're pretty close to the top now as far as getting things paid, which is great.
[09:45.750 --> 09:47.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: But we couldn't have done that without you.
[09:47.550 --> 09:50.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we will need your support in the future.
[09:51.150 --> 10:02.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Since 1960, that is how WBAI has stayed on the air at 99.5 FM as, I will say this, as the most stable radio force in New York.
[10:02.630 --> 10:09.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, you might be doubled over laughing when you think about WBAI as being a stable radio force.
[10:09.130 --> 10:14.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: But compare it to every other frequency that is out there in New York City.
[10:14.910 --> 10:24.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you will find that pretty much every frequency has changed at some point, has fired their entire staff, has gone to a different format, has swapped frequencies.
[10:24.130 --> 10:24.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who knows?
[10:26.370 --> 10:29.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Somehow, we have stayed at 99.5 FM.
[10:30.970 --> 10:33.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: And WBAI continues to transmit at that frequency.
[10:34.750 --> 10:36.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we did that because of you.
[10:36.590 --> 10:44.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, please, call 212-209-2950 or go to give2wbai.org and pledge whatever you can.
[10:45.710 --> 10:46.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead, Gila.
[10:47.250 --> 10:54.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: I did hear a rumor that WBAI changed formats to a country western station.
[10:55.030 --> 11:04.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think what you're referring to there, Gila, is an April Fool's joke that we here at Off The Hook put on one April Fool's Day when we happened to land on that day.
[11:04.370 --> 11:08.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what we did was a countdown of a new station debuting.
[11:09.030 --> 11:12.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: It caused a bit of a panic and a whole lot of pledges.
[11:12.790 --> 11:16.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, I think that was the goal.
[11:17.590 --> 11:18.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: It can happen.
[11:18.730 --> 11:20.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: It can always happen in the world of radio.
[11:21.250 --> 11:27.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's certainly possible to lose your station, to have the owners decide to go in a different direction.
[11:27.490 --> 11:32.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, the WBCN station that we're referring to, that's what happened originally beforehand.
[11:33.150 --> 11:36.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: They were known as the Boston Concert Network.
[11:36.970 --> 11:38.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's what BCN stood for.
[11:38.410 --> 11:40.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was one of a series of classical stations.
[11:40.890 --> 11:44.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: You might remember WNCN in New York was at 104.3.
[11:44.990 --> 11:46.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: They were the New York Concert Network.
[11:46.910 --> 11:48.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: There was one in Hartford, WHCN.
[11:49.090 --> 11:51.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: There was one on Long Island, down in Riverhead, RCN.
[11:51.670 --> 11:54.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: They were all part of this network, but it fell apart.
[11:54.310 --> 11:56.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: They didn't have the funds to keep going.
[11:56.250 --> 12:01.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's when these hippies in Boston decided, hey, here's a radio station that we can buy time on.
[12:01.490 --> 12:03.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: And eventually, they bought the station.
[12:04.450 --> 12:09.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: And in that particular case, it was a good move, but that's what happens in the world of radio.
[12:09.510 --> 12:11.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Things get changed and taken over all the time.
[12:12.910 --> 12:25.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and it was something that came to mind, I think, because the ownership that we have is something that is built upon many other people's contributions in the past.
[12:26.190 --> 12:32.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: So your contribution is something that other people have recognized before, and that's why we're here.
[12:32.370 --> 12:39.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's why we're, you know, because they value and have stepped up and got us to this point.
[12:39.990 --> 13:01.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I just, I feel very strongly that the independence and free format is mostly because there's a certain vigilance and a certain responsibility that comes with having a community ownership scheme.
[13:01.710 --> 13:04.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's what you're a part of as a listener.
[13:04.590 --> 13:05.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead, Gila.
[13:05.290 --> 13:16.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think the other thing to bear in mind that's really important is how unusual it is to find community, listener-supported radio smack in the middle of the FM dial.
[13:16.650 --> 13:20.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: We are in the heart of everything here at 99.5 FM.
[13:21.210 --> 13:30.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: And quite frankly, because of where our broadcast tower is, we're coming to you from basically the heart of New York City.
[13:30.410 --> 13:34.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're broadcasting from, well, we're transmitting from Times Square, right?
[13:35.070 --> 13:37.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: In the heart of the dial, in the heart of New York City.
[13:37.670 --> 13:41.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we cannot continue to do that without your support.
[13:41.390 --> 13:49.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: So please visit towerfund.wbai.org or call the phone number, which someone else is going to remind me of because I don't remember it off the top of my head.
[13:50.330 --> 13:51.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: 212-209-2950.
[13:51.950 --> 13:55.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you reminded me of that other nifty website, towerfund.wbai.org.
[13:55.870 --> 14:01.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's a great site to look at for updates and to see what it is that we're moving forward with.
[14:01.170 --> 14:01.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rob, did you have something?
[14:02.930 --> 14:03.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, indeed.
[14:04.070 --> 14:08.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: It intrigued me that you mentioned what the Boston Station's call letters stood for.
[14:08.850 --> 14:11.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm sure you know this, Emmanuel, because you must.
[14:11.850 --> 14:19.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I'm wondering how many other people here know what the letters WBAI stand for, what the WBAI, because it actually stands for something.
[14:19.410 --> 14:20.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know.
[14:20.510 --> 14:21.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's not we beg at intervals.
[14:21.770 --> 14:24.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, it's something else.
[14:24.710 --> 14:26.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyone else want to take a stab at it?
[14:26.590 --> 14:27.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I might be wrong, too.
[14:28.470 --> 14:30.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to recuse myself because I can see Rob's screen.
[14:31.250 --> 14:31.370]  Okay.
[14:32.510 --> 14:35.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is it World Broadcasters of America Incorporated?
[14:36.170 --> 14:37.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: You are so close.
[14:37.470 --> 14:37.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[14:38.370 --> 14:40.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: The W is not part of it.
[14:40.070 --> 14:42.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's the W from being on the East Coast.
[14:42.310 --> 14:46.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it is WBAI stands for Broadcast Associates Incorporated.
[14:46.570 --> 14:46.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Really?
[14:47.490 --> 14:50.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Which was the owners of this station in 1955.
[14:50.690 --> 15:09.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: The station WBAI, the call letters, were assigned to the company that ran the radio station as a regular commercial concern until five years later when a person with a lot of money and a good heart called Schweitzer donated it to the Pacifica Network in 1960 and they kept the same call letters.
[15:09.610 --> 15:13.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: So a lot of stations, they get random call letters assigned or they don't stand for anything.
[15:13.250 --> 15:17.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: But ours once stood for something and they still have that meaning, which I think is very cool.
[15:17.830 --> 15:19.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: They stand for a lot, I think.
[15:19.610 --> 15:19.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely.
[15:19.870 --> 15:22.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, WBAI means something.
[15:22.210 --> 15:31.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: But even in the Pacifica Network, even in the Pacifica Network, WBAI is kind of standing out because all the other stations have the PF in it.
[15:32.330 --> 15:37.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: WPFW, KPFT, KPFA, KPFK, and KPFB if you want to be technical about it.
[15:38.010 --> 15:39.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: But we're WBAI.
[15:39.290 --> 15:42.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: We could be WPFN or something, you know, for New York.
[15:42.850 --> 15:44.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: But we wanted to keep those call letters.
[15:45.250 --> 15:48.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: And over 60 years later, we still have them.
[15:49.090 --> 15:51.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we still have 99.5 FM.
[15:51.590 --> 16:01.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: But it's interesting that you say that station started in 1955, only lasted five years as a commercial entity, whereas we've been on the air as a non-commercial station.
[16:01.790 --> 16:06.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I believe we're the first station that actually tried asking for listener support on the air.
[16:06.730 --> 16:08.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think anyone else had tried that before.
[16:08.750 --> 16:13.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: There was no NPR, so they certainly weren't in that particular mix.
[16:14.870 --> 16:15.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alex, did you have anything?
[16:17.370 --> 16:26.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I don't have very much to add because I think that you and Gila and Rob and Kyle have pretty much covered it all.
[16:26.450 --> 16:36.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I'm really amazed to hear that WBAI actually stands for something, actually means something, and existed prior to our incantation of the station.
[16:36.970 --> 16:38.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think that's really historical.
[16:38.110 --> 16:49.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: I would put money on the fact that these are probably the oldest call letters in New York consistently, the oldest consistent call letters in New York.
[16:49.870 --> 16:50.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Everything else is changing.
[16:50.970 --> 16:53.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it's really pretty amazing stuff.
[16:53.890 --> 17:03.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: And just to echo one sentiment that you had obliquely referenced earlier, but it was almost exactly two years ago that we were in litigation over the ownership of this station.
[17:03.670 --> 17:16.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if you think about the ragtag group of misfits and weirdos that comprise WBAI, and I mean that in the fondest sense, it is a real miracle that this place continues to operate.
[17:16.950 --> 17:26.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I think because of its diversity and because of its inclusivity, not by design, but by nature, is how it survives.
[17:26.690 --> 17:27.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have activists.
[17:27.910 --> 17:29.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have union organizers.
[17:29.070 --> 17:31.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have shows about weaponry.
[17:31.090 --> 17:37.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: We have political shows, news shows, lawyers, hackers.
[17:37.610 --> 17:43.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: We all come together and somehow we make this crazy place, continue to go, and we can't do it without the listeners.
[17:44.250 --> 17:48.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: The fact that we are in the black right now is not the time to close your purse books.
[17:48.790 --> 17:56.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's the time to keep them open, make sure that we stay on the air, keep us going for another 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years, I hope.
[17:58.130 --> 18:02.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just to step in here to make a slight correction because we will get letters if we don't.
[18:04.650 --> 18:07.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: WNYC actually has had call letters longer than we have.
[18:09.090 --> 18:10.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, they actually...
[18:10.270 --> 18:10.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's an interesting story.
[18:11.070 --> 18:12.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: They signed on...
[18:12.390 --> 18:13.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm looking at Wikipedia right now.
[18:13.970 --> 18:19.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: They signed on March 13, 1943 at 43.9 megahertz.
[18:20.990 --> 18:21.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is that right?
[18:22.130 --> 18:25.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because they're at 93.9, but this article says 43.9.
[18:25.670 --> 18:27.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe somebody could clarify that for us.
[18:28.150 --> 18:36.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: They were known originally as W39NY, and they basically changed to WNYC a few years after that.
[18:37.310 --> 18:39.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, yeah, that's before 1960.
[18:39.650 --> 18:45.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: But they have gone through all kinds of different transitions as well and changes in ownership.
[18:47.410 --> 18:53.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: So we certainly are one of the original call letters and stations.
[18:53.650 --> 18:54.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[18:54.530 --> 18:56.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: That being said, one final time.
[18:56.510 --> 18:58.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Phone number, 212-209-2950.
[18:58.990 --> 19:01.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Website, give2wbai.org.
[19:01.490 --> 19:05.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Additional website, towerfund.wbai.org.
[19:05.510 --> 19:06.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Please, show your support.
[19:06.510 --> 19:07.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Help keep us strong.
[19:07.930 --> 19:12.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it'll be an amazing bunch of years in the future.
[19:13.650 --> 19:16.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, so Log4j.
[19:16.410 --> 19:18.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: We didn't talk about Log4j on the show last week.
[19:18.650 --> 19:21.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: We talked about it on Overtime.
[19:22.610 --> 19:30.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, well, let's discuss what Log4j actually is, because you've probably heard about it in the news quite a bit.
[19:30.310 --> 19:39.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you've probably seen that this is something that is affecting people, computers everywhere, networks, websites.
[19:40.910 --> 19:42.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: And kind of like...
[19:43.310 --> 19:45.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Kind of like...
[19:47.010 --> 19:48.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can you turn that thing off?
[19:48.810 --> 19:49.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Computer, stop!
[19:50.750 --> 19:55.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Every time you say that word, the automated assistant chimes in and says something.
[19:55.850 --> 19:57.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you've got to tell it to stop.
[19:57.210 --> 19:57.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sorry about that, folks.
[19:59.150 --> 20:07.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, basically, machines are affected by this particular security hole.
[20:07.410 --> 20:11.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alex, maybe you could describe it better than I'm attempting to do right now.
[20:12.590 --> 20:14.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, you seem slightly distracted there.
[20:15.070 --> 20:16.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know what's going on.
[20:17.050 --> 20:20.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Something's got you very flustered, and I don't think it's Log4j.
[20:20.050 --> 20:22.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's the damn Alexa device that has the name...
[20:22.210 --> 20:26.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to turn my microphone off after I say this, so you don't have to hear what it says in response.
[20:26.210 --> 20:32.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: It has the name computer, and my voice is also changing as Kyle adjusts the...
[20:32.730 --> 20:34.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Was there a problem with the levels?
[20:34.950 --> 20:35.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[20:36.130 --> 20:37.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're not helping if you whisper.
[20:39.670 --> 20:40.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[20:40.630 --> 20:40.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[20:41.270 --> 20:41.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[20:41.830 --> 20:42.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[20:42.210 --> 20:43.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead, Alex.
[20:44.390 --> 20:44.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[20:44.910 --> 20:46.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, Log4j.
[20:46.510 --> 20:58.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, Log4j is a very popular logging library, and we talked about this quite a bit right at the end of Overtime last year, if people want to tune in to that bit of the recording.
[20:59.230 --> 21:10.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: But Log4j is a very popular Java-based open-source logging library that's used, well, throughout Apache, but not just in web servers.
[21:10.830 --> 21:17.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is a logging library that's used throughout almost any application that relies on Java.
[21:17.950 --> 21:27.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's extraordinarily popular with Java developers because it allows Internet-facing applications to log what's happening on these particular devices.
[21:27.110 --> 21:28.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, it's very popular.
[21:28.610 --> 21:30.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's pretty much ubiquitous.
[21:30.330 --> 21:39.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's extraordinarily pervasive when it comes to Internet-facing applications and also in internal applications that companies may be running on their own.
[21:39.970 --> 21:49.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: And a vulnerability had been found originally by some Chinese security researchers.
[21:49.110 --> 21:51.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: I believe they were associated with Alibaba.
[21:52.450 --> 22:03.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: And this vulnerability is extraordinarily dangerous because it is an RCE, or a remote code execution vulnerability, that has a very low barrier to entry.
[22:03.790 --> 22:11.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: You don't have to be extraordinarily technically adept in order to cause some chaos here with this Log4j vulnerability.
[22:11.830 --> 22:31.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a single string that you can send to an application that, when it's logged within the system and then processes that particular log, it's kind of like the application itself will then, you know, pick out that line with tweezers and find this, there's,
[22:31.670 --> 22:38.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: you can reference a remote server and a remote application through this particular string.
[22:38.450 --> 22:44.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: And through that remote system, you can cause a remote code execution vulnerability to take effect.
[22:44.810 --> 22:48.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, it's extraordinarily easy to accomplish.
[22:48.710 --> 23:02.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: And because it is contained in so many applications all across the Internet, that, and not just Internet-facing stuff, I think this is really important to remember that there are a lot of internal applications that rely on the Log4j library as well.
[23:03.730 --> 23:16.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: This has the potential to cause massive disruption across the Internet, and there has been a race to remediate and patch this vulnerability in all of these affected applications.
[23:16.690 --> 23:24.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: There was a CISA, a Cybersecurity Infrastructure Security Agency, that is under the auspices of DHS.
[23:24.410 --> 23:36.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: They issued a directive, actually, to all civilian federal agencies this past Friday, requiring them to patch and identify all of the affected applications.
[23:36.270 --> 23:51.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, there is this race to remediate and patch all of these affected applications, both on the federal and the civilian side of the planet, while, at the same time, threat actors are trying to figure out ways to automate and exploit this particular vulnerability.
[23:51.190 --> 23:54.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, Alex, if I can ask,
[23:57.950 --> 24:04.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: when you say affected applications, can you give us an example of what that is?
[24:07.510 --> 24:09.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it could be really anything.
[24:09.210 --> 24:11.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, you know, there's tons of applications.
[24:11.970 --> 24:28.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, in fact, CISA has a list of affected applications that is sort of a running total of applications that are affected, but it's really almost anything that incorporates Java as a programming language, and that contains some sort of logging as well.
[24:28.870 --> 24:34.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: And so, because the Log4j library, as I mentioned, is extraordinarily popular, it could be in almost anything.
[24:35.050 --> 24:37.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it is in almost everything that relies on Java.
[24:38.450 --> 24:42.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you're not running Java, do you have nothing to worry about?
[24:46.540 --> 24:55.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, not necessarily at all, because you still have to worry about it, because the applications on which you rely may still utilize Java.
[24:55.440 --> 24:59.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: And so there are a ton of web-based applications that rely on Java.
[25:00.000 --> 25:10.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Java is extraordinarily popular in programming language, especially in the early 2000s, going into the 2010s, and still to this day, it's popular to a certain extent with respect to Internet-facing applications.
[25:10.980 --> 25:17.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: But this Log4j library, anywhere Java was incorporated, it's very likely to be found.
[25:17.440 --> 25:21.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: So this vulnerability was also found to have been...
[25:22.420 --> 25:29.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, at least there was an attempted exploitation of it with respect to Minecraft servers as well, because Minecraft servers are relying on Java.
[25:29.700 --> 25:31.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: They have this Log4j application there.
[25:31.830 --> 25:52.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they found that Minecraft users could exploit this particular vulnerability simply by sending the string that I had mentioned, this well-crafted string that exploits the vulnerability in the library and has an address included in it through which the remote code can be found and then executed.
[25:52.920 --> 25:59.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: And simply by putting that into, let's say, the chat function within Minecraft, that's then logged.
[25:59.360 --> 26:03.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: When that log is processed, the remote code execution vulnerability is affected.
[26:03.680 --> 26:11.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: So even on something as public and prominent and Internet-facing as Minecraft is this Log4j vulnerability.
[26:11.840 --> 26:23.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: So does this only affect people playing Minecraft or people who basically just have computers that are connected to the Internet, should they be worried as well?
[26:24.860 --> 26:25.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[26:25.660 --> 26:31.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, pretty much anybody, you know, who's using Internet-facing applications can be affected by this particular vulnerability.
[26:31.640 --> 26:39.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: But companies themselves really have to be vigilant about this because it's a...
[26:41.000 --> 26:47.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's say you're running some kind of service that relies on Java that has this Log4j vulnerability included in it.
[26:47.980 --> 26:50.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, that can cause a breach on your own system.
[26:50.660 --> 26:53.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: It can cause a remote code execution vulnerability.
[26:53.860 --> 27:01.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that could allow an attacker essentially to drop something like a web shell into your system.
[27:02.000 --> 27:06.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then right after that, it can be pretty much game over.
[27:06.290 --> 27:15.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: If somebody's got a web shell that allows them remote access to your particular system through this Log4j vulnerability, it can be very, very dangerous.
[27:15.550 --> 27:30.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: So this is a point of entry and a vulnerability that is so pervasive and found almost everywhere around the Internet that it's going to be a very, very difficult thing to patch in the short term.
[27:30.520 --> 27:36.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: We may not be able to get this done across the board in the manner that we would like to see it.
[27:36.140 --> 27:49.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: But as I mentioned it over time, I think this very well has an analog, very well may have an analog to the pandemic in which we find ourselves today.
[27:49.420 --> 27:56.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that much like we are realizing with the coronavirus, we may not be able to fully eradicate this.
[27:57.120 --> 27:59.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: There may be variants that are popping up here and there.
[27:59.310 --> 28:07.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I think the same applies to Log4j because there are certain exploitations of the Log4j library that are known right now.
[28:07.310 --> 28:18.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's very likely that variations on a theme of this vulnerability are going to be developed by sophisticated cyber adversaries and threat actors over the weeks and months to come.
[28:18.920 --> 28:33.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that because there are going to be variations on this vulnerability, it's unlikely that patching, even remediating through patching itself, may entirely close this vulnerability out from exploitation.
[28:33.420 --> 28:38.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: So this may be something that, like the virus, we have to live with for quite a long time.
[28:39.120 --> 28:47.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we come to terms with the idea that we have to remediate, patch, and mitigate risk as much as we can rather than actually eradicate it.
[28:48.660 --> 28:49.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[28:49.500 --> 28:49.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[28:49.940 --> 28:51.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's something.
[28:51.980 --> 28:52.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's pretty scary.
[28:53.160 --> 29:00.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: And the parallels to coronavirus are really kind of staggering.
[29:01.070 --> 29:05.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, that it's something that seems to be affecting the entire world.
[29:06.050 --> 29:08.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's really, really hard to eradicate.
[29:09.160 --> 29:12.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: And people don't seem to know what to do.
[29:12.050 --> 29:17.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, what kinds of things should people be looking for in the immediate?
[29:17.830 --> 29:25.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Have you gotten any kind of good hints or are there tools yet available that people should be expecting to look for?
[29:26.120 --> 29:29.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I mean, there is definitely a lot that people can be doing.
[29:30.360 --> 29:37.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, there's a lot of guidance that comes from CISA, from the Cybersecurity Infrastructure Security Agency.
[29:38.360 --> 29:49.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: And really, I would tell people to take a look at an alert that came out today, which is known as AA21-356A.
[29:49.860 --> 29:55.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: And this is basically a summary of mitigating the Log4j vulnerability.
[29:55.760 --> 29:58.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: There is also something called Log4shell.
[29:58.740 --> 30:03.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: Log4j is the vulnerability that is inherent to the Java-based library that I've been describing.
[30:04.780 --> 30:15.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Log4shell is how the information security community is describing the actual exploitation and perhaps the dropping of some kind of web shell through the Log4j vulnerability.
[30:16.310 --> 30:21.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you'll see a lot of those terms thrown around nearly synonymously, Log4shell and Log4j.
[30:22.290 --> 30:40.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: But alert AA21-356A that came out today from CISA has a really good summary of this, as well as technical details, descriptions of the impact, and a mitigation strategy as well.
[30:40.460 --> 31:02.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: And a lot of the country-based certs or the computer emergency response teams for New Zealand and the Five Eyes, NCSC at the UK, the National Cybersecurity Center in the UK, are all encouraging vendors and have been encouraging vendors for over the last week to prioritize patching this and rolling out those patches,
[31:02.740 --> 31:10.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: getting these patches into the customer's environment so that these appliances, these applications, these servers that are public-facing are not vulnerable.
[31:11.310 --> 31:27.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, what I fear, though, with this is that because we have such a focus right now on the public-facing vulnerabilities here with respect to Log4j, that that may eclipse the patching that needs to happen within an organization itself.
[31:28.220 --> 31:35.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: As I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of internal applications, perhaps bespoke applications, that organizations may be running internally.
[31:36.200 --> 31:49.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: These may be something that's running on an Internet to perhaps, you know, log something like, you know, accounts payable or, you know, whatever internal web-based application you might be running.
[31:49.570 --> 31:50.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Who the hell knows what it is?
[31:50.760 --> 32:00.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: But there's all types of things that could be utilizing this Log4j library in an internal application, something that's not facing outwards towards the Internet.
[32:01.220 --> 32:19.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, let's say that there's a cyber adversary within your network or in a lot of organizations that may already be the case and you don't have proper network segmentation or, you know, VLANs in place to prevent an attacker from moving around laterally.
[32:19.880 --> 32:34.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you still have this vulnerability present within your environment, this is something that could be continually exploited, let's say, by an external threat actor who's maintained persistence in your network long after this has been way out of the news cycle.
[32:34.880 --> 32:36.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's what's scary to me.
[32:36.570 --> 32:52.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: The other component of this, too, is that if there are internal applications that are missed as part of this patching and remediation spree that's going on across the globe now and those stay inside, then those are always going to be vulnerable to an insider threat.
[32:52.980 --> 33:17.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: So if somebody already has access to your network, let's say you might have a rogue employee in IT or, you know, somebody who's not happy with the way things are going within your company, this could be a vulnerability that they could exploit and do some damage internally so long as they had some kind of network access to the particular device that was running Log4j.
[33:19.860 --> 33:20.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[33:20.660 --> 33:21.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[33:21.310 --> 33:22.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I also...
[33:22.880 --> 33:24.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if you covered this, but I also...
[33:24.900 --> 33:31.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's a Log4j attack on the Belgian government that was confirmed by their Ministry of Defense a couple of days ago.
[33:32.440 --> 33:37.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: And according to ZDNet, the breach targeted one of the country's computer networks connected to the Internet.
[33:37.860 --> 33:49.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: While they didn't confirm what kind of attack it was, they did say that they quickly put so-called quarantine measures to contain the breach into effect so as to not let it spread.
[33:51.260 --> 33:55.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I guess we'll be seeing a lot more things like this in the future.
[33:56.040 --> 34:00.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, we'll certainly be watching, I think, to see what kinds of...
[34:00.040 --> 34:06.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: how this kind of stuff is taken advantage of or what kind of mitigation...
[34:06.090 --> 34:08.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: or how the mitigation efforts actually unfold.
[34:08.360 --> 34:09.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it's...
[34:09.800 --> 34:13.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: yeah, a lot looming, but...
[34:13.620 --> 34:15.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: yeah, be on your toes.
[34:16.090 --> 34:16.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[34:16.920 --> 34:18.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alex, yes, quickly.
[34:18.550 --> 34:25.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, one thing I would say that we have seen advanced cyber adversaries already trying to exploit this particular vulnerability.
[34:26.590 --> 34:35.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Several sources have pointed to evidence linking Log4J, Log4Shell exploitation to Iran and China.
[34:35.420 --> 34:52.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the very first exploitations of this actually dropped crypto miners on remote servers, meaning that it was going to use the processing power of somebody else's device, perhaps on an AWS system, Amazon Web Service system, to mine cryptocurrency.
[34:53.480 --> 34:59.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think, you know, those first couple of exploitations, you know, were inexplicably childish.
[35:00.140 --> 35:15.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think, you know, these crypto miners to put on there, I think those exploitations, if I were to guess, and this is all conjecture, it is a guess, I have to say, I would guess that that was probably proof of concept from a more advanced cyber rubber,
[35:15.700 --> 35:22.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: just to determine whether or not they could exploit this particular vulnerability and try to automate the exploitation of it.
[35:22.550 --> 35:35.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: So we do already see also Russian-based ransomware gangs like Conti, which are very well known to be persistent and pretty nasty in what they do, exploiting this vulnerability as well.
[35:35.590 --> 35:38.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: So it's dangerous and it's out there and it's going to be out there for a while.
[35:39.300 --> 35:44.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, well, also something that's dangerous and is going to be out there for a while, COVID-19.
[35:45.550 --> 35:46.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here's an interesting story.
[35:47.170 --> 35:51.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: At home, COVID-19 tests may not be as trustworthy as you'd hope.
[35:51.720 --> 35:55.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not in the hands of, guess who, a committed hacker at least.
[35:55.610 --> 35:57.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's according to The Verge.
[35:57.860 --> 36:13.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: They say F-Secure researcher Ken Gannon discovered a security flaw, a since-patched security flaw in Ellume's Bluetooth-connected nasal swab test that let him change the reported results.
[36:14.150 --> 36:17.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: The vulnerability was complicated but still disconcerting.
[36:19.360 --> 36:28.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Gannon used a rooted Android device to inspect the Bluetooth traffic Ellume's lateral flow tester was sending to the company's mobile app.
[36:28.670 --> 36:35.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: The researcher pinpointed the traffic used to indicate test results and wrote scripts to change the outcome.
[36:36.980 --> 36:39.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Ellume has made it harder to study and modify the data.
[36:39.500 --> 36:42.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not clear iPhone or iPad users could replicate the same feat.
[36:42.900 --> 36:50.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: The company's also building a portal to help officials verify at-home tests and has determined that all previous tests were authentic.
[36:50.440 --> 36:58.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Even so, the findings raise concerns about people using other flaws, including for other tests, to falsify their COVID-19 results.
[36:58.780 --> 37:02.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Someone with enough know-how could flip results negative to re-enter the U.S.
[37:02.550 --> 37:05.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: or a particular workplace when they're actually infected.
[37:06.860 --> 37:10.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Although the effort currently involved makes that fraud unlikely on a large scale.
[37:11.090 --> 37:14.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: It wouldn't take many bogus results to lead to outbreaks, obviously.
[37:14.630 --> 37:15.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you know what?
[37:15.150 --> 37:23.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you have people that are that intent on thwarting the system and spreading the virus, they're going to figure out a way to do that anyway.
[37:24.260 --> 37:27.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think it's something we really need to stay up nights worrying about.
[37:28.800 --> 37:51.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: if you simply have test requirements in place, I think that's enough of a barrier for most people that are obstinate about this to actually go out and figure out a way to thwart this particular type of test that uses Bluetooth.
[37:51.280 --> 37:55.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Bluetooth, it takes a degree of sophistication that most people don't have.
[37:56.150 --> 38:08.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you want to take advantage of it on a wide scale, you have to sort of work with people that do have knowledge and it becomes a really complex type of organization at that point.
[38:08.800 --> 38:09.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: What do you think, Rob?
[38:10.820 --> 38:13.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: The thing I'm wondering is, why is this an app?
[38:13.980 --> 38:20.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is an at-home medical test, like so many different types of at-home medical tests that we have nowadays.
[38:21.280 --> 38:32.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a thing, you stick one thing up your nose, you stick it in another thing, and then for some reason that thing has to pair to your phone via Bluetooth and transmit data to an app to tell you yes or no, you have this disease or you don't.
[38:32.540 --> 38:37.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: And what happened to just having a little stripe on the thing that lights up one way or lights up the other way?
[38:37.540 --> 38:43.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Why are they adding this layer of complexity to what should be a very simple gadget?
[38:44.320 --> 38:57.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I imagine the reason is because they want a way of verifying that you, in fact, tested negative, whereas if you could just say, oh yeah, I tested negative, yeah, that's what happened at my house.
[38:58.570 --> 39:10.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I agree though, it doesn't have to be that complex, and I think if we don't try and have all this technology thrown into it, we'll have less problems.
[39:11.440 --> 39:13.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's fairly simple as it is.
[39:13.980 --> 39:26.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not to mention the fact that it's sort of, you know, you're tampering with something and sort of fraudulently claiming a result on something that's supposed to be a tool in verifying some of that stuff.
[39:27.110 --> 39:45.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it's, yeah, I mean, you can go to great lengths to fabricate some kind of thing that makes you appear to be on some sort of, on the level, and you can feign that you're being honest about it, but yeah, I mean, these, as you'd said, would be, there'd be a lot of barriers to that,
[39:45.570 --> 39:48.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: and it's extraordinary lengths to basically lie.
[39:50.110 --> 39:50.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Indeed.
[39:51.050 --> 40:03.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, of course, that leads us to 5G, which part of the conspiracy theory is that somehow COVID-19 is linked to 5G, and it makes you magnetic, and all kinds of crazy things like that.
[40:04.190 --> 40:05.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, get this.
[40:06.440 --> 40:09.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is classic.
[40:10.280 --> 40:11.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is Darwinian.
[40:11.780 --> 40:13.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Darwin Awards, that is.
[40:13.570 --> 40:24.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: The Dutch Authority for Nuclear Safety and Radiation Protection has issued a warning about 10 products that it found that gave off harmful ionizing radiation.
[40:24.820 --> 40:29.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: It urged people not to use the products, which could cause harm with long-term wear.
[40:31.160 --> 40:34.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: And these products are anti-5G necklaces.
[40:35.810 --> 40:37.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, the anti-5...
[40:37.440 --> 40:44.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you're wearing anti-5G necklaces, they apparently are radioactive, and you should not be wearing them.
[40:44.540 --> 40:48.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Might I also point out, there is no evidence that 5G networks are harmful to health.
[40:49.070 --> 40:57.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: The World Health Organization says 5G mobile networks are safe, and not fundamentally different from existing 3G and 4G signals.
[40:58.370 --> 41:02.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mobile networks use non-ionizing radio waves that do not damage DNA.
[41:02.940 --> 41:11.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Despite this, though, there have been attacks on transmitters by people who believe they are harmful, and all sorts of other silliness.
[41:11.340 --> 41:19.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, the products that have been identified included an energy armor sleeping mask, a bracelet, and the aforementioned necklace.
[41:19.820 --> 41:26.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: A bracelet for children branded Magnatex Wellness was also found to be emitting radiation.
[41:27.050 --> 41:28.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Don't wear it anymore.
[41:28.880 --> 41:34.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Put it away safely and wait for the return instructions, the statement said.
[41:35.040 --> 41:45.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: The sellers in the Netherlands known to the ANVS have been told that the sale is prohibited and must be stopped immediately, and that they must inform their customers about this.
[41:47.570 --> 41:48.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thoughts?
[41:49.600 --> 41:52.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rob, you seem to have something here.
[41:52.420 --> 41:59.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I mean, the whole hubbub about 5G is sad and funny enough to begin with.
[42:00.090 --> 42:04.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you believe that radiation is doing terrible things to you, then why are you listening to the radio?
[42:04.740 --> 42:14.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because we also travel over non-ionizing radio waves to get to your homes, and so there's some more trouble to deal with.
[42:14.570 --> 42:20.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, these things being radioactive is just kind of fantastic.
[42:20.800 --> 42:23.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's terrible, and nobody should be put at this kind of risk.
[42:23.570 --> 42:28.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the fact that quack science has ended up being literally radioactive radioactive.
[42:28.670 --> 42:30.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sorry, it's just...
[42:30.320 --> 42:31.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: I can't.
[42:31.380 --> 42:31.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: I can't with it.
[42:33.050 --> 42:33.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[42:34.050 --> 42:35.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I can see...
[42:36.090 --> 42:43.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you want to buy an aloe plant and tell yourself that it's protecting you from all the radiation, or...
[42:43.940 --> 42:44.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[42:44.420 --> 42:45.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, go for that.
[42:45.320 --> 42:46.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's fine.
[42:46.380 --> 42:52.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: There seems like there's probably a great deal of benefit to that relationship that you form.
[42:52.570 --> 43:08.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, yeah, like hard minerals, stuff that's been, you know, unearthed, that you're going to strap on to your family, and lo and behold, it's full of its own kind of radio activity.
[43:08.500 --> 43:13.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: That just, I think, seems a bit too far.
[43:15.040 --> 43:18.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're really damaging yourself at this point.
[43:19.460 --> 43:20.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[43:21.210 --> 43:29.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I don't ever know of a necklace or bracelet that has helped, really, with anything other than looks that it might give you.
[43:29.980 --> 43:42.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and it just seems like an amazing leap to kind of try to thread along or go along this path of like sort of natural protection.
[43:44.640 --> 43:46.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, yeah, be wary of that.
[43:46.400 --> 43:52.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, there is good aspects to reducing your exposure to things that are electronic.
[43:52.740 --> 43:55.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: That can just be said broadly.
[43:55.780 --> 43:59.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, but, you know, be careful about what you're telling yourself and believing.
[44:00.080 --> 44:00.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Go ahead, Rob.
[44:01.300 --> 44:09.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, yeah, I don't want to make people feel bad for thinking one way or another about this because it is so easy to become misguided.
[44:09.320 --> 44:12.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: It is so easy to become afraid of things you don't understand.
[44:12.300 --> 44:28.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's why people in the hacker world especially, but also people in general, I think, are at their best when they are actually looking into things, finding out the true science and data behind things and finding out how things actually work and how things actually interact with things such as,
[44:28.300 --> 44:29.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: like, the cells of your body.
[44:30.420 --> 44:32.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, the information is out there.
[44:32.280 --> 44:36.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good information is out there from good sources if you want to track it down.
[44:36.400 --> 44:43.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, yeah, it is okay to be wrong about something, learn what's actually going on, and change your mind.
[44:43.920 --> 44:46.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, yeah, 5G is It's not going to hurt you.
[44:47.000 --> 44:48.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Radio waves are not going to hurt you.
[44:49.140 --> 44:53.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Also, I'll mention really quick that vaccines are real and COVID is real.
[44:53.400 --> 44:56.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, you know, standing next to a radio transmitter isn't advisable.
[44:56.360 --> 45:02.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, radio waves can hurt you if you're unsafe, you know, about how to handle them.
[45:02.580 --> 45:10.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: RF can cause harm, but we're not, you know, the kind of RF we're talking about here is infinitesimal and not an issue.
[45:11.080 --> 45:13.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: But there is something, I don't know if you guys heard this story.
[45:14.380 --> 45:18.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Aerospace giants Airbus and Boeing yesterday warned that the U.S.
[45:18.920 --> 45:24.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: aviation industry had concerns about potential interference of 5G networks with vital flight safety equipment.
[45:25.060 --> 45:27.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: So here's something we might want to pay attention to.
[45:27.960 --> 45:30.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: The intervention increases pressure on U.S.
[45:30.700 --> 45:38.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: regulators in a dispute between airlines and mobile operators over the introduction of the high-speed mobile broadband technology in the U.S.
[45:38.300 --> 45:40.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, Kyle and I just got 5G phones.
[45:40.680 --> 45:42.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: We don't have them yet, but we're getting them.
[45:43.580 --> 45:45.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, it's everyone's getting 5G.
[45:45.760 --> 45:46.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: You guys have 5G yet?
[45:47.080 --> 45:47.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alex?
[45:47.920 --> 45:48.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anything?
[45:50.460 --> 45:51.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alex, you there?
[45:52.060 --> 45:54.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it takes me a second to go off mute there.
[45:54.840 --> 45:57.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I've had 5G for quite a while.
[45:57.360 --> 46:01.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't understand why you guys have been, you know, living under a cave.
[46:01.600 --> 46:07.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I have to say, I have this 5G, you know, ultra connect thing now.
[46:07.300 --> 46:11.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, you know, I get this, this UC icon.
[46:12.000 --> 46:13.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was a yes, no question, Alex.
[46:13.580 --> 46:14.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: But okay, go ahead.
[46:14.440 --> 46:15.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Give us a whole story about it.
[46:16.140 --> 46:21.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it was incredible to me because I didn't know what the heck this UC icon was.
[46:22.040 --> 46:29.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I looked it up and said, oh, it's just ultra connect or it means you're in an area where the 5G network is extraordinarily fast.
[46:30.060 --> 46:31.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I checked it out.
[46:31.440 --> 46:33.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I, you know, I wanted to test the bandwidth.
[46:33.680 --> 46:34.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've lost control of the story.
[46:35.180 --> 46:36.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've totally lost control of the story.
[46:36.640 --> 46:37.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now it's about Alex's phone.
[46:38.060 --> 46:39.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was talking about airline safety.
[46:39.660 --> 46:39.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[46:40.180 --> 46:40.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[46:40.700 --> 46:42.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was almost a thousand megabits a second.
[46:42.940 --> 46:44.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: I couldn't believe it.
[46:44.120 --> 46:45.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: I could not believe it.
[46:46.600 --> 46:52.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Returning to the story, Airbus and Boeing have been working with other aviation industry stakeholders in the U.S.
[46:52.280 --> 46:56.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: to understand potential 5G interference with radio altimeters.
[46:57.060 --> 46:59.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: They measure a plane's height above the ground.
[46:59.380 --> 47:00.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's not exactly vital.
[47:00.920 --> 47:07.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Boeing said the aerospace industry was focused on fully evaluating and addressing the potential for 5G interference with radio altimeters.
[47:07.710 --> 47:17.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: We are collaborating with aviation authorities, government leaders, airlines and industry groups to ensure the continued operational safety of aircraft throughout the aviation system worldwide.
[47:18.980 --> 47:29.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Leading telecom operators Verizon and AT&T were due to start using the 3 to 7 to 3.8 gigahertz frequency bands on December 5th.
[47:29.200 --> 47:36.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: After obtaining licenses worth billions of dollars in February, they postponed the launch in November after the U.S.
[47:36.600 --> 47:43.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: aviation regulator expressed concerns over 5G signals, possibly interfering with the altimeters.
[47:44.260 --> 47:52.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: And in November, Verizon AT&T wrote to the FCC, confirming their intention to start deploying 5G in January of 2022.
[47:52.900 --> 47:54.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wait a minute, 5G hasn't been deployed yet?
[47:55.100 --> 47:56.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: I thought 5G was in use.
[47:58.060 --> 47:59.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, Gila.
[47:59.980 --> 48:01.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: I do have a question.
[48:01.600 --> 48:03.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, wait, I'm trying to answer this question first.
[48:04.020 --> 48:05.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, no, I don't have an answer to that question.
[48:05.240 --> 48:07.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is 5G in use or not?
[48:07.120 --> 48:08.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: This article seems to say that it's not.
[48:08.600 --> 48:08.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[48:09.000 --> 48:09.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't have a 5G phone.
[48:10.120 --> 48:11.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: It is in use.
[48:11.540 --> 48:13.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: 5G's been enabled for quite a long time.
[48:13.300 --> 48:16.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: So why are they saying that it's not going to start being used until January?
[48:16.700 --> 48:23.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are they just talking about Verizon and AT&T and other companies already using it?
[48:24.080 --> 48:25.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: T-Mobile has 5G as well.
[48:26.040 --> 48:26.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[48:26.860 --> 48:27.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[48:27.660 --> 48:28.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead, Gila.
[48:29.760 --> 48:37.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess my question is, I know 5G is good, but is it so good that you can get the signal in midair?
[48:37.860 --> 48:39.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you can get any signal in midair.
[48:40.060 --> 48:40.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: You really can.
[48:41.600 --> 48:43.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: I have not been able to.
[48:43.680 --> 48:48.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: If I haven't put my phone in airplane mode, I don't get a signal in the middle of a flight.
[48:48.840 --> 48:55.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Gila, the handoff for 5G can take place at higher speeds.
[48:55.900 --> 48:57.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: I know that from the specification.
[48:58.280 --> 49:02.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: So you can be going at like 500 miles an hour and still be connected theoretically.
[49:03.160 --> 49:06.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: And people have connected their cell phones while in flights.
[49:06.780 --> 49:07.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: I do know that.
[49:07.400 --> 49:08.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you can't say it's everywhere.
[49:09.100 --> 49:11.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Obviously, it has to be a tower somewhere within sight.
[49:12.000 --> 49:12.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[49:12.240 --> 49:14.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think airplane mode is a good point.
[49:15.080 --> 49:22.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, do you need to be doing all kinds of stuff like at every mode of flying?
[49:22.340 --> 49:26.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I know they still they used to have policies about that.
[49:26.360 --> 49:35.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I know most people on planes don't really pay or a lot of people pay attention to their phones instead of what the policy is.
[49:35.340 --> 49:36.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, in practice.
[49:36.880 --> 49:39.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it's probably a real concern.
[49:39.800 --> 49:48.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it is a new thing that is going to be in the cabin of these these planes.
[49:48.200 --> 49:49.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they haven't I don't know.
[49:49.440 --> 49:55.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sure they've done testing with like what it's like to have a bunch of seats with handsets or whatever.
[49:55.800 --> 49:56.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: But here's what I don't get.
[49:57.020 --> 50:04.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: If if 5G is, in fact, in use for some companies, not others, don't they use the same basic frequency areas?
[50:04.700 --> 50:07.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: So wouldn't they already be causing problems?
[50:07.300 --> 50:09.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that would be documented, Alex?
[50:10.460 --> 50:31.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, that's what I don't necessarily understand that why this is coming to light right now, because the proposal to use 5G or a certain basis of the spectrum would certainly be published and open for public comment from from the FCC for quite some time way before this is going to be rolled out or implemented.
[50:31.160 --> 50:43.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you would think that the engineers at Boeing and Airbus and whatnot would have taken notice of that fact or or perhaps tested to see to determine whether or not there was some kind of interference.
[50:43.860 --> 50:57.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: And RF interference is a bigger and bigger problem these days, given all of these IoT devices, telephone devices, towers, everything that relies on on radio frequencies or RF.
[50:57.340 --> 51:00.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: RF interference is is a is a very, very big deal.
[51:00.620 --> 51:16.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: And so, you know, much like the log for J vulnerability, remediating this type of thing across a fleet of airplanes can be extraordinarily problematic to do after 5G is rolled out in this particular fashion.
[51:16.180 --> 51:28.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: That may cause this interference with the usage of an altimeter, which, as Emmanuel noted, is is not really an incredibly important thing that, you know, knowing knowing what the altitude of a plane is.
[51:28.240 --> 51:28.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's for God's sake.
[51:29.040 --> 51:35.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, this is a critical component of an aircraft that really should have been tested, I think, well ahead of time.
[51:35.820 --> 51:36.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[51:36.340 --> 51:49.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think part of this is that there is a lot of people that are changing over because of parts of the network being shut down and turned off, essentially, in the early part of next year.
[51:49.100 --> 52:10.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's a lot different than like if, you know, a dozen people with 5G iPhones and like an air marshal with some other handset are the only ones with them versus 200 seats full of people pulling in like whatever 8K virtual reality they need these days to get through a flight.
[52:10.440 --> 52:15.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, that remains to be seen, like how that affects this stuff.
[52:15.940 --> 52:18.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I will... I think that's it.
[52:18.360 --> 52:18.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: You hit it.
[52:18.980 --> 52:26.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's like it's about the noisiness and people insisting to be online at all modes of flight.
[52:26.920 --> 52:29.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we're going to have to continue this conversation on overtime.
[52:29.740 --> 52:39.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you want to be part of overtime, simply go to youtube.com/Channel2600 or follow the link that's out at the top of the 2600.com web page.
[52:39.660 --> 52:44.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: We will be back on Off The Hook here on WBAI next week, 7 p.m.
[52:44.180 --> 52:44.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: on Wednesday.
[52:44.900 --> 52:48.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can write to us, oth@2600.com.
[52:48.920 --> 52:54.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you want to call us, well, tune into Overtime over on YouTube and we'll give out the phone number there.
[52:56.080 --> 52:58.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Until next week, have a happy holiday.
[52:59.020 --> 53:04.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: We will be in touch over the air and over the net.
[53:05.080 --> 53:05.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good night.
[53:08.900 --> 53:40.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm dreaming of a white Christmas Just like the one I used to know Where the cheetops glisten And kitties listen to you here Slave bells in the snow.
[53:57.450 --> 54:04.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm dreaming of a white Christmas.
[54:10.930 --> 54:22.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: With every Christmas I say, may your days be merry.
[54:22.110 --> 54:24.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Have
[54:30.910 --> 54:37.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: a Christmas I say, may your
[54:55.260 --> 55:00.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: days be merry.
[55:05.240 --> 55:09.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: Christmas I say, may your days be merry.
[55:19.590 --> 55:20.990]  Christmas
[55:37.460 --> 55:37.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: I say, may your days be merry.
[55:44.150 --> 55:56.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: And may all your Christmases be merry.
[56:10.170 --> 56:12.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is Ralph Pointer.
[56:12.750 --> 56:17.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: Join me and others every Wednesday, 8 to 9 p.m.
[56:17.610 --> 56:22.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: Eastern Time on WBAI 99.5 on your radio.
[56:24.740 --> 56:33.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: And welcome to everybody over on YouTube as we start another exciting edition of Overtime, Off The Hook Overtime, where you can call us.
[56:33.800 --> 56:39.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Our phone number is 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK.
[56:39.820 --> 56:46.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we are basically continuing the conversation on various issues.
[56:46.860 --> 56:48.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: We are confirmed that we are on YouTube.
[56:48.620 --> 56:51.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's always nice when we actually are broadcasting to people.
[56:53.840 --> 56:56.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we hope to hear from listeners.
[56:56.920 --> 56:57.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, 5G.
[56:58.000 --> 57:03.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, that story we were reading, I have to say, was confusing.
[57:04.330 --> 57:08.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I think that's how a lot of people feel about these technical issues.
[57:09.080 --> 57:10.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rob, why do you keep giving me the thumbs up?
[57:11.460 --> 57:13.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: You gave me the thumbs up once, and you gave it to me three times.
[57:13.880 --> 57:15.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: I really appreciate what you're doing.
[57:15.230 --> 57:17.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: But also, the levels on YouTube are a bit low.
[57:17.900 --> 57:18.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here we go again.
[57:19.000 --> 57:20.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: I give up on this.
[57:20.580 --> 57:23.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: This board that we have here keeps changing.
[57:23.270 --> 57:24.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now the levels are low.
[57:24.270 --> 57:25.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't change anything.
[57:25.440 --> 57:26.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: So why are the levels low?
[57:26.800 --> 57:27.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't want to touch it.
[57:27.560 --> 57:29.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm afraid to touch it.
[57:29.180 --> 57:31.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: If I touch it, all of a sudden things get distorted.
[57:31.840 --> 57:32.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know?
[57:32.580 --> 57:36.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was super distracted over the last hour because everything was changing on the board.
[57:36.520 --> 57:40.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I couldn't hear myself, or I could hear myself, or I was distorted, or I was low.
[57:41.440 --> 57:42.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: What do I do?
[57:42.540 --> 57:43.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Kyle, tell me what to do.
[57:44.080 --> 57:48.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think we need to turn up the auxiliary cheer.
[57:49.080 --> 57:50.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're very low, by the way.
[57:50.340 --> 57:52.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's not enough cheer in our board.
[57:54.340 --> 57:54.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[57:55.080 --> 57:56.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's missing the holiday cheer.
[57:56.960 --> 57:57.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I sound better.
[57:58.120 --> 57:59.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just turned you up.
[57:59.770 --> 58:00.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, that's good.
[58:00.560 --> 58:01.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: I made a change.
[58:01.800 --> 58:03.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: You told me not to make a change.
[58:03.230 --> 58:03.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: I made a change.
[58:03.750 --> 58:04.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: It made you sound better.
[58:04.820 --> 58:06.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll have a talk with it after.
[58:08.290 --> 58:13.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: If anyone has a mixing board to send us, please, we'll give you the PO box.
[58:13.600 --> 58:15.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: It needs more sugar and spice.
[58:15.680 --> 58:18.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: It needs a kick in the ass is what it needs.
[58:19.330 --> 58:21.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not feeling festive right now.
[58:24.390 --> 58:26.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, someone say something while I'm doing something else.
[58:27.170 --> 58:33.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it's still doing very well considering we lash this all up to together ourselves in our individual homes in a pandemic.
[58:33.930 --> 58:45.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the fact that we can get out there without the radio airwaves to our listeners and take phone calls live on the air is an example of something actually going really, really nice for what it is.
[58:45.470 --> 58:47.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: And your toils are appreciated.
[58:48.270 --> 58:48.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks.
[58:49.290 --> 58:50.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I heard a ring.
[58:50.850 --> 58:52.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: We got one test ring.
[58:53.190 --> 58:57.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: So the telephone system seems to still exist.
[58:57.990 --> 58:59.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: So that's encouraging.
[58:59.450 --> 59:01.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm feeling optimistic about that.
[59:03.430 --> 59:04.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: So do we have a caller?
[59:05.510 --> 59:14.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, they sadly didn't try multiple times, which we have that feature added on this phone line, I'm told.
[59:14.230 --> 59:14.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[59:14.450 --> 59:16.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's get back to 5G since we were talking about that.
[59:16.810 --> 59:17.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why not?
[59:17.170 --> 59:17.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[59:17.450 --> 59:20.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: So we have these 5G phones that are arriving soon.
[59:20.010 --> 59:26.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I don't even know if we have a 5G network because I keep hearing conflicting stories.
[59:27.870 --> 59:35.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not being implemented till January or it doesn't work in certain parts of the world or it's been in operation since last January.
[59:36.370 --> 59:38.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know what to believe.
[59:38.610 --> 59:45.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: I am also noticing these things about devices being compatible versus certified.
[59:46.130 --> 59:47.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: That seems to be a thing.
[59:47.690 --> 59:47.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[59:48.370 --> 59:49.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have a call.
[59:49.310 --> 59:49.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm going to answer that.
[59:50.030 --> 59:50.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[59:50.130 --> 59:50.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead and answer that.
[59:52.090 --> 59:53.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's see if we can put somebody on the radio.
[59:54.290 --> 59:55.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Volume's too low again.
[59:56.650 --> 59:57.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: Volume's too low again.
[59:57.670 --> 59:57.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[59:57.990 --> 59:58.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know what?
[59:58.790 --> 01:00:02.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Kyle, you deal with Rebel here and get the volume to be to the satisfaction.
[01:00:03.530 --> 01:00:04.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm getting a drink.
[01:00:04.350 --> 01:00:04.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:00:04.790 --> 01:00:05.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Rebel.
[01:00:06.590 --> 01:00:07.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll go.
[01:00:07.290 --> 01:00:08.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm going to have a look.
[01:00:08.570 --> 01:00:09.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm trying.
[01:00:09.490 --> 01:00:10.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm really...
[01:00:10.170 --> 01:00:11.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm so damn sick of this.
[01:00:11.710 --> 01:00:13.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: I thought I...
[01:00:14.650 --> 01:00:17.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, let me mention something about 5G actually.
[01:00:17.050 --> 01:00:18.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Rebel, we're trying to address...
[01:00:18.270 --> 01:00:19.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think you should instruct us.
[01:00:19.090 --> 01:00:20.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're trying to address your concerns.
[01:00:20.830 --> 01:00:23.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, please bear with us now while we're...
[01:00:23.190 --> 01:00:25.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, even on the phone, you're a little bit low.
[01:00:25.890 --> 01:00:29.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, on the phone, you're a little bit low too.
[01:00:29.450 --> 01:00:30.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, I don't know.
[01:00:30.290 --> 01:00:32.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean...
[01:00:32.110 --> 01:00:34.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: You see, here's what happens.
[01:00:34.050 --> 01:00:41.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: For people to understand what we're dealing with here, we have our microphones here in our studio, pegged to the maximum.
[01:00:42.390 --> 01:00:46.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: When we bring the Skype people in, that affects the sound and brings us down.
[01:00:46.910 --> 01:00:48.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, now we have to go above the maximum somehow.
[01:00:48.890 --> 01:00:49.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: We can't.
[01:00:50.190 --> 01:00:51.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if we...
[01:00:51.010 --> 01:00:54.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: If we adjust other knobs on the board, it gets all distorted.
[01:00:54.210 --> 01:00:56.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I hear my voice making some kind of a...
[01:00:56.290 --> 01:00:57.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: What the hell are you doing?
[01:00:57.990 --> 01:00:59.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: You said you wanted to be louder.
[01:00:59.470 --> 01:01:00.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is that better?
[01:01:00.230 --> 01:01:01.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't want to be that...
[01:01:01.270 --> 01:01:01.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh my God.
[01:01:01.810 --> 01:01:02.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have a doorbell?
[01:01:03.350 --> 01:01:03.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: No.
[01:01:03.910 --> 01:01:04.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: You just...
[01:01:04.510 --> 01:01:04.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: What did you do?
[01:01:04.890 --> 01:01:07.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, that's...
[01:01:08.450 --> 01:01:10.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: I thought you did that to the board somehow.
[01:01:10.730 --> 01:01:11.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they're very loud.
[01:01:11.770 --> 01:01:11.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:01:12.350 --> 01:01:13.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, are we feeling better?
[01:01:13.910 --> 01:01:14.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are you feeling okay?
[01:01:14.710 --> 01:01:15.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, I...
[01:01:15.150 --> 01:01:15.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: This sounds better.
[01:01:16.650 --> 01:01:18.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rebel, how do you feel about this?
[01:01:18.430 --> 01:01:18.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:01:19.450 --> 01:01:19.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um...
[01:01:19.850 --> 01:01:21.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: You sound a little bit louder and better.
[01:01:22.290 --> 01:01:22.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean...
[01:01:23.230 --> 01:01:24.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hold on, let me...
[01:01:24.210 --> 01:01:25.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: We'll never completely sound...
[01:01:25.210 --> 01:01:25.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wait, let me...
[01:01:25.710 --> 01:01:27.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let me look on the terminal.
[01:01:27.310 --> 01:01:28.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let me go to the terminal.
[01:01:28.470 --> 01:01:28.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go to the terminal.
[01:01:29.170 --> 01:01:32.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Give it enough time to propagate so that, you know, it takes time.
[01:01:32.350 --> 01:01:32.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, hold on.
[01:01:32.690 --> 01:01:33.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: The Internet is not live.
[01:01:34.790 --> 01:01:36.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's a little louder on the computer.
[01:01:36.490 --> 01:01:36.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: A little louder.
[01:01:37.090 --> 01:01:38.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can we be happy with a little louder?
[01:01:38.770 --> 01:01:40.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can we be happy with that, just for tonight?
[01:01:41.210 --> 01:01:42.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: And talk about something else?
[01:01:42.350 --> 01:01:47.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: I guess unless people hook their computers up to their stereos and maybe make it louder that way.
[01:01:47.190 --> 01:01:48.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Can we talk about hacker hearing loss?
[01:01:50.790 --> 01:01:51.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:01:51.470 --> 01:01:54.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe it's the listeners that aren't listening well enough.
[01:01:55.010 --> 01:01:55.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Huh?
[01:01:56.010 --> 01:01:56.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's the way to go.
[01:01:56.810 --> 01:01:57.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's my theory.
[01:01:57.550 --> 01:01:58.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's how you do it.
[01:01:58.390 --> 01:02:00.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm just getting a little defensive over here.
[01:02:00.630 --> 01:02:01.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think you're too loud.
[01:02:02.450 --> 01:02:04.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I'm too loud now.
[01:02:04.190 --> 01:02:05.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, look at it this way.
[01:02:05.270 --> 01:02:06.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let me just put this mic there.
[01:02:06.630 --> 01:02:07.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can hear you.
[01:02:07.370 --> 01:02:09.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: You had one green dot before and now you have eight.
[01:02:10.030 --> 01:02:10.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:02:10.450 --> 01:02:11.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I don't know.
[01:02:11.250 --> 01:02:11.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: You tell me.
[01:02:11.850 --> 01:02:14.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's say it's working okay-ish for now.
[01:02:15.170 --> 01:02:16.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: But back to 5G.
[01:02:17.190 --> 01:02:17.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay-ish.
[01:02:17.690 --> 01:02:19.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's what I was always told to strive for.
[01:02:19.470 --> 01:02:20.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead, Rambo.
[01:02:20.350 --> 01:02:20.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's your question?
[01:02:20.910 --> 01:02:22.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, what do you got about 5G or anything?
[01:02:23.790 --> 01:02:24.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's see.
[01:02:24.670 --> 01:02:25.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[01:02:25.130 --> 01:02:28.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: I have a 5G phone, a Samsung 5G phone.
[01:02:28.270 --> 01:02:29.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: I got it from T-Mobile.
[01:02:30.510 --> 01:02:30.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[01:02:31.090 --> 01:02:34.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: And for some reason, I download things.
[01:02:34.630 --> 01:02:41.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I do speed tests on it and it says 100 megabits a second download and 30 megabits a second upload or whatever.
[01:02:41.790 --> 01:02:54.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, sometimes when I'm, like, I go on WhatsApp and download a file that somebody sends me, it takes, it's not very slow, but it could be a little faster.
[01:02:54.670 --> 01:02:59.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Like a one-minute video that somebody posted and I'll download it to watch it.
[01:03:00.190 --> 01:03:07.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: It takes like a, not a minute, but it does take quite a while.
[01:03:07.450 --> 01:03:10.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Not a while, but I'd say maybe a minute and a half.
[01:03:10.330 --> 01:03:11.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, maybe less.
[01:03:11.030 --> 01:03:15.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Could it be adding a little bit because it's an encrypted conversation, possibly?
[01:03:16.610 --> 01:03:16.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe.
[01:03:17.950 --> 01:03:20.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: I guess the encryption makes it...
[01:03:20.330 --> 01:03:22.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: That'd be one guess I'd go with, but...
[01:03:22.550 --> 01:03:24.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are you sure you're using the 5G network?
[01:03:25.850 --> 01:03:27.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, because I see it on my phone.
[01:03:27.890 --> 01:03:28.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[01:03:28.630 --> 01:03:49.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: And when I tether, and when I use tethering, like when I use my phone as a tethering hotspot from my computer at home and go online, I get the same good speed download, but when I'm watching the Alexa YouTube video, I get... it'll sometimes buffer at like when I'm watching a high-definition video.
[01:03:49.570 --> 01:03:52.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: If I put it on like 480, it'll buffer less.
[01:03:52.850 --> 01:03:54.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, if it's...
[01:03:54.430 --> 01:03:57.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's the latency is...
[01:03:57.550 --> 01:04:04.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: The latency is like 13 or 18 or something like that, or 20.
[01:04:05.210 --> 01:04:07.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: But with 5G, shouldn't it be less?
[01:04:09.030 --> 01:04:10.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[01:04:10.390 --> 01:04:11.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't...
[01:04:11.010 --> 01:04:15.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe Alex has an answer to this, because he's been using 5G as well, but...
[01:04:15.310 --> 01:04:17.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's still susceptible, I think, with...
[01:04:17.590 --> 01:04:24.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, even wired connections, optical and otherwise, suffer from latency issues.
[01:04:24.610 --> 01:04:35.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: And wireless is, I think, no different, maybe even more so because it's going from various modes of communication and takes some time to be processed in transit.
[01:04:35.270 --> 01:04:48.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: But it still may have sort of super speeds and then suffer a little bit, especially when you're moving around.
[01:04:48.470 --> 01:04:58.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I gotta say, I don't know if 5G improves reception, but out in Long Island, there are so many problems with reception.
[01:04:58.770 --> 01:05:00.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Almost everywhere you go, you lose reception.
[01:05:00.570 --> 01:05:08.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: And my phone, lately, excuse me, has been taking to alerting me every time I'm out of signal range, like every 10 seconds.
[01:05:08.390 --> 01:05:15.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: It chimes a certain note and says SIM not provisioned when it can't communicate with the carrier.
[01:05:16.110 --> 01:05:18.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: And this is extremely annoying.
[01:05:18.790 --> 01:05:23.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't need an audible alert to tell me every 10 seconds that I'm not connected.
[01:05:23.430 --> 01:05:25.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: I know I'm not connected, or I don't care.
[01:05:25.970 --> 01:05:27.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it simply eats up the battery.
[01:05:27.770 --> 01:05:33.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if this is some new feature that they've implemented or if my phone is just going bad.
[01:05:33.550 --> 01:05:33.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's a setting.
[01:05:34.470 --> 01:05:35.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a setting.
[01:05:35.290 --> 01:05:36.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's a setting I didn't make.
[01:05:36.610 --> 01:05:37.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'll tell you that right now.
[01:05:38.550 --> 01:05:39.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I'm sure it's a setting.
[01:05:39.790 --> 01:05:41.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: I also have a theory about this.
[01:05:41.910 --> 01:05:43.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is the dilapidation.
[01:05:43.750 --> 01:05:44.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is the shutdown.
[01:05:44.670 --> 01:05:47.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is the end of the old network.
[01:05:48.250 --> 01:05:56.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're not making more and better coverage for the phone that you're upset about.
[01:05:56.230 --> 01:05:56.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:05:56.770 --> 01:05:59.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: And so anyway, that's not getting worked on.
[01:05:59.730 --> 01:06:00.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's my theory.
[01:06:00.850 --> 01:06:01.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: My second theory.
[01:06:01.970 --> 01:06:02.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a good theory.
[01:06:03.090 --> 01:06:04.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's built in obsolescence.
[01:06:04.510 --> 01:06:07.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's kind of funny that it's coming right before I get a new phone.
[01:06:08.470 --> 01:06:15.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: But if that's what they're doing, I kind of don't want to get a new phone now because this makes me want to double down and hold on to old technology.
[01:06:15.810 --> 01:06:19.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: It just feels a lot like the whole landline conversation we always have.
[01:06:19.770 --> 01:06:20.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: All over again.
[01:06:20.570 --> 01:06:21.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yeah.
[01:06:21.110 --> 01:06:24.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're just going to let the copper just corrode.
[01:06:26.230 --> 01:06:31.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Just so you know, like we're talking about getting on that subject, or it's kind of similar.
[01:06:31.630 --> 01:06:38.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: You talk about the computer, the network, that flaw or that bug that you were talking about.
[01:06:38.910 --> 01:06:39.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Log 4J.
[01:06:41.070 --> 01:06:41.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:06:41.310 --> 01:06:41.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:06:42.450 --> 01:06:54.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe if everybody should just go back to getting the mainframe and, you know, terminals and, you know, not be on the Internet and whatever you want to put on the Internet, put it on a separate system or node or whatever.
[01:06:54.710 --> 01:06:55.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've still got the UNIVAC.
[01:06:55.750 --> 01:06:57.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've still got the UNIVAC over at the warehouse.
[01:06:58.030 --> 01:07:00.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I don't know if you want to get that old.
[01:07:00.030 --> 01:07:00.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: What do you mean?
[01:07:00.670 --> 01:07:01.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why not?
[01:07:01.490 --> 01:07:03.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you say mainframe, let's go for the mainframe.
[01:07:03.930 --> 01:07:04.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: UNIVAC.
[01:07:04.410 --> 01:07:04.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:07:04.810 --> 01:07:06.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: We've got the power.
[01:07:06.050 --> 01:07:09.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're talking about digital, like IBM digital deck.
[01:07:09.650 --> 01:07:09.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: The punch cards.
[01:07:10.210 --> 01:07:10.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, Informer.
[01:07:10.550 --> 01:07:11.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Remember the...
[01:07:11.330 --> 01:07:12.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: You don't know...
[01:07:12.010 --> 01:07:14.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: There was a computer terminal company called Informer.
[01:07:15.310 --> 01:07:16.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: There was a...
[01:07:16.190 --> 01:07:20.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: They made terminals that, like, the Queensborough Public Library used to use.
[01:07:20.030 --> 01:07:20.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[01:07:21.350 --> 01:07:25.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, they ran on the, you know, that digital equipment company mainframe.
[01:07:25.870 --> 01:07:26.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: I believe...
[01:07:26.990 --> 01:07:29.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: I believe punch cards will make a comeback.
[01:07:29.730 --> 01:07:32.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've invested heavily in their production.
[01:07:32.350 --> 01:07:35.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I think that is how we will, uh, communicate in the future.
[01:07:36.290 --> 01:07:38.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: I just handed you a stack this morning.
[01:07:38.210 --> 01:07:38.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Prove me wrong.
[01:07:39.630 --> 01:07:40.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can't do it, can you?
[01:07:41.630 --> 01:07:42.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: No.
[01:07:42.230 --> 01:07:42.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well...
[01:07:42.610 --> 01:07:44.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe we should bring back TSPS Opry.
[01:07:46.050 --> 01:07:47.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know I would like that.
[01:07:47.250 --> 01:07:54.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: In fact, you know, I've been thinking since our conversation last week or a couple weeks ago, we were talking about communities running their own landline telephone companies.
[01:07:54.710 --> 01:07:55.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think that's a good idea.
[01:07:56.050 --> 01:08:05.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: How about, you know, all these, all these elderly people wandering around with nothing to do, how about they, they, they, they sit in the switch room and they answer the phone and...
[01:08:05.790 --> 01:08:06.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Actually, some of them do.
[01:08:06.070 --> 01:08:07.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: I know, but they're not supposed to.
[01:08:07.270 --> 01:08:07.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Some of them in like Portland, Oregon.
[01:08:07.950 --> 01:08:08.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're not supposed to be in there.
[01:08:09.610 --> 01:08:12.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, yeah, some of them are running museums and things like that.
[01:08:12.390 --> 01:08:12.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's true.
[01:08:13.130 --> 01:08:17.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, uh, you know, every, every central office becomes a part of the community.
[01:08:17.250 --> 01:08:18.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think there, there's something here.
[01:08:19.010 --> 01:08:22.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, of course, you don't, you don't want to become soft switches now.
[01:08:22.770 --> 01:08:23.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what that means.
[01:08:23.470 --> 01:08:31.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you don't want your grandmother, you don't want your grandmother climbing up a pole, um, unless she's really good at it to fix, uh, lines, but I'm sure we can work that out.
[01:08:31.570 --> 01:08:33.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe, you know, uh, outsource to some kids or something.
[01:08:34.470 --> 01:08:39.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, they have like, you know, just don't outsource to anybody outside the country.
[01:08:39.710 --> 01:08:41.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: They can use a bucket truck.
[01:08:41.230 --> 01:08:42.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're not going to use a ladder.
[01:08:42.570 --> 01:08:42.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:08:43.150 --> 01:08:43.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:08:43.450 --> 01:08:44.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: They've been around long enough.
[01:08:44.450 --> 01:08:49.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: They know they're, they're like, are there going to be no more 5ESS is in like a DMS-100.
[01:08:49.550 --> 01:08:55.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're going to replace them with like, like, like voiceover IP, like a soft switch type things.
[01:08:55.570 --> 01:08:58.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a software defined networking future.
[01:08:58.790 --> 01:08:59.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, uh, Rebel.
[01:08:59.770 --> 01:09:03.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if you saw the latest 2600, but there's a terrific article in there about switches.
[01:09:03.390 --> 01:09:09.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I believe it covers 5ESS and, uh, and, and DMS-100s and DMS-10s in the first part of it.
[01:09:09.690 --> 01:09:10.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, very, very thorough.
[01:09:11.210 --> 01:09:12.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was extremely impressed by this.
[01:09:13.210 --> 01:09:13.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.
[01:09:13.650 --> 01:09:19.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: There is a, a successor to the SS seven, um, signaling network.
[01:09:19.730 --> 01:09:26.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, of course a lot of the equipment that, um, that utilized it, including 5ESS.
[01:09:26.930 --> 01:09:32.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it will eventually be phased, uh, towards the older side.
[01:09:32.230 --> 01:09:36.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: It'll be harder to find them, I guess, but not yet.
[01:09:37.090 --> 01:09:41.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: So what about the wired lines are like businesses, like stores and businesses use wired lines?
[01:09:41.850 --> 01:09:43.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's, that's a good point.
[01:09:43.030 --> 01:09:49.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was, I was actually thinking about that because most places, most establishments still have landlines for you to call in and make an order.
[01:09:49.710 --> 01:09:55.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: The other day, um, I was trying to reach a place to place an order and there was something haywire about their phone.
[01:09:55.770 --> 01:09:59.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was picking up, giving the name of the place, playing music, saying somebody will be with you soon.
[01:09:59.690 --> 01:10:01.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: And nobody ever came.
[01:10:01.330 --> 01:10:03.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I kept calling back and the same thing would happen.
[01:10:03.510 --> 01:10:09.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Then I, I, I called, uh, a second time on top of the first time thinking that I might jump over.
[01:10:09.410 --> 01:10:10.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I did.
[01:10:10.290 --> 01:10:15.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I got somebody with a very far away voice that was cutting in and out saying, our phones are broken.
[01:10:15.590 --> 01:10:18.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: I said, okay, I'll come down, place the order in person.
[01:10:18.690 --> 01:10:23.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: When I got there, it was so sad because they had no way of, of communicating with their customers.
[01:10:23.970 --> 01:10:26.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, and, and nobody could call in to place an order.
[01:10:26.590 --> 01:10:29.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't get to the point of saying, show me your phone line and I'll fix it for you.
[01:10:29.990 --> 01:10:32.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just wanted to, you know, get my food and get out of there.
[01:10:32.170 --> 01:10:36.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: But sometimes people have these things installed that just don't work.
[01:10:36.690 --> 01:10:39.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, they're at, they're at their mercy.
[01:10:39.730 --> 01:10:47.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, so, um, I don't know if, if, if, if they, they moved away from their landline to do this, or I don't know why they couldn't just pick up the phone.
[01:10:47.790 --> 01:10:50.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: It just seemed like you should always be able to do that.
[01:10:50.170 --> 01:10:57.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: And the fact that they weren't able to do that tells me that they, they opted for something cloud-based or just something that wasn't a very good idea that could really hurt them.
[01:10:58.870 --> 01:11:00.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: So you can do that with your own phone.
[01:11:00.410 --> 01:11:07.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Like if I, I, I, if I wanted to get a home phone line, I was really thinking of doing it, but why would I pay the extra money if I have a cell phone?
[01:11:08.070 --> 01:11:11.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: Just to play with, like, get a regular seven-digit phone.
[01:11:11.470 --> 01:11:13.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: May I ask what part of the country you're in at this moment?
[01:11:14.610 --> 01:11:15.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'm in New York City now.
[01:11:15.950 --> 01:11:16.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, you're in New York City.
[01:11:16.790 --> 01:11:17.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: But I will be in California.
[01:11:17.310 --> 01:11:29.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, when the floods come, uh, and you can tell us about California later, but when the floods come, or a hurricane, or, or a blizzard, or just, you know, uprising one sort or another, and there's no power for, for a couple of months, or even a few weeks,
[01:11:29.630 --> 01:11:32.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: and the cell towers are down, how are you going to communicate?
[01:11:32.450 --> 01:11:33.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: How are you going to charge your phone?
[01:11:33.530 --> 01:11:34.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: What are you going to do?
[01:11:34.770 --> 01:11:37.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Landline, you can pick up them, get a dial tone, and talk to whoever's still left.
[01:11:39.070 --> 01:11:39.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's true.
[01:11:39.690 --> 01:11:42.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's why, well, yeah, I guess it'd be worth it.
[01:11:42.430 --> 01:11:47.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, just to get basic service, you know, or I can, you know, just call the operator.
[01:11:47.430 --> 01:11:58.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, speaking, you know what, um, speaking of collect calls, let's remember the, uh, the, uh, the shenanigans of the collect call that I would make to my cell phone and not forget a bill.
[01:11:59.270 --> 01:12:00.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: Remember when they told you about them?
[01:12:01.030 --> 01:12:02.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, refresh my memory?
[01:12:03.210 --> 01:12:05.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: I, I, I, there was 1-800-collect.
[01:12:05.790 --> 01:12:05.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[01:12:06.810 --> 01:12:12.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Which, they would say, we can make collect calls to cell phones, and you'd make a collect call to your cell phone.
[01:12:12.670 --> 01:12:23.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then, you know, I would think my, my, my T-Mobile bills, or spent PCS, uh, would get the bill, I'd get it on the bill, I'd pay the, you know, $10 for the minute I talked or whatever.
[01:12:23.290 --> 01:12:23.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[01:12:23.710 --> 01:12:24.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, but no.
[01:12:24.850 --> 01:12:25.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: That never happens.
[01:12:25.230 --> 01:12:36.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: They keep calling you, they keep, they call you saying, this is the wire max tell with, uh, reminding you about your collect call that was placed on whatever.
[01:12:37.190 --> 01:12:38.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: You pay with a credit card.
[01:12:39.090 --> 01:12:40.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Please enter your card.
[01:12:40.230 --> 01:12:41.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they want a credit card of it.
[01:12:41.630 --> 01:12:45.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, of course, I, you know, didn't, uh, you know, answer.
[01:12:45.310 --> 01:12:48.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they just keep calling you saying, and then the price keeps going up.
[01:12:48.690 --> 01:12:51.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it was like $30, $20 or something.
[01:12:51.410 --> 01:12:52.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: That was like $30 or something.
[01:12:52.790 --> 01:12:53.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: How do we call them?
[01:12:54.230 --> 01:12:55.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, we, we did a whole thing.
[01:12:55.950 --> 01:12:56.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: That was, that was a different company.
[01:12:57.030 --> 01:12:57.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, different company.
[01:12:57.750 --> 01:13:02.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, but I have never seen a collect call work to a cell phone properly.
[01:13:02.770 --> 01:13:04.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've never seen that happen.
[01:13:04.630 --> 01:13:07.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, that's, I mean, that's what I, I thought.
[01:13:07.730 --> 01:13:13.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is that, tell me if I'm wrong about this, but there has never been a phone book of cell phones ever.
[01:13:13.630 --> 01:13:15.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: I keep hearing that there's going to be.
[01:13:15.830 --> 01:13:22.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, you know, you used to be able to call the, you used to be able to call information and ask for, you know, can I have Rebel's phone number?
[01:13:23.090 --> 01:13:24.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: And she'd say, sure, here it is.
[01:13:24.570 --> 01:13:25.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: You want his address too?
[01:13:25.470 --> 01:13:27.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they'd be very informative and helpful.
[01:13:27.490 --> 01:13:28.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can't do that anymore.
[01:13:28.690 --> 01:13:29.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can't do that with cell phones.
[01:13:29.810 --> 01:13:32.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: How do you, how do you find out somebody's phone number if you don't already have it?
[01:13:32.530 --> 01:13:34.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe I should put my cell phone as unlisted.
[01:13:34.930 --> 01:13:38.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know how you can even do that because I think they're all unlisted by default.
[01:13:38.330 --> 01:13:40.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: I probably have to pay to do that.
[01:13:41.130 --> 01:13:49.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: I, I don't know why there isn't, uh, you know, since we had a phone book in the past and since we're a more intrusive society than ever before, why do we let that go?
[01:13:50.130 --> 01:13:52.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why do we say, you know what, we're not going to have a listing anymore.
[01:13:53.170 --> 01:13:55.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: I called Verizon and asked them, can I get a phone book?
[01:13:55.810 --> 01:13:58.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they said, oh, you're going to have to call this number about it.
[01:13:58.530 --> 01:14:05.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, I called another number, which is not Verizon, which was some company that, uh, something about phone books.
[01:14:05.970 --> 01:14:08.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, they do something.
[01:14:08.490 --> 01:14:08.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[01:14:08.870 --> 01:14:09.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're probably more an ad.
[01:14:09.850 --> 01:14:11.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: But I don't think I could...
[01:14:11.890 --> 01:14:16.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know what, what, you can, you can get a good price for old phone books these days.
[01:14:16.130 --> 01:14:20.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you have a phone book, save it, save it, and, and, and, and you can sell it.
[01:14:21.130 --> 01:14:22.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm just trying to start something here.
[01:14:22.850 --> 01:14:23.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't really know if that's true.
[01:14:24.230 --> 01:14:24.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: On eBay.
[01:14:25.310 --> 01:14:26.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, sell your phone book on eBay.
[01:14:27.010 --> 01:14:29.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have a 1983 Suffolk County phone book.
[01:14:30.270 --> 01:14:31.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's yours for 50 bucks.
[01:14:31.810 --> 01:14:32.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Try that.
[01:14:32.290 --> 01:14:32.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: See what happens.
[01:14:33.630 --> 01:14:38.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, if you go to the public library, New York City public library and, uh, look at old phone books.
[01:14:38.870 --> 01:14:40.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, they have a whole floor devoted to phone books.
[01:14:40.830 --> 01:14:41.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, I'm kidding about that too.
[01:14:42.010 --> 01:14:42.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is there a hacker...
[01:14:42.850 --> 01:14:43.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: They have microphones.
[01:14:44.490 --> 01:14:50.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is there a hacker phone book of, like, every single phone, phone number that has been explored?
[01:14:50.730 --> 01:14:51.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's...
[01:14:51.130 --> 01:14:52.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Every hacker has that in their...
[01:14:52.930 --> 01:14:54.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Was that ever compiled anywhere though?
[01:14:54.830 --> 01:14:59.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, every hacker has their own that's got scribbles and, and cross outs and things like that.
[01:14:59.010 --> 01:15:00.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if it's ever been compiled.
[01:15:00.690 --> 01:15:00.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[01:15:01.490 --> 01:15:02.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: I just thought of something.
[01:15:02.790 --> 01:15:04.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: The FBI has tried to do that.
[01:15:04.270 --> 01:15:04.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I was...
[01:15:04.810 --> 01:15:13.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: I was just wondering, uh, remembering a time when you used to call back in the 90s, the operator, you would say, I like the rates of calling at 212-394 exchange.
[01:15:13.750 --> 01:15:16.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: And she would just dial it and say, oh, that's local or whatever.
[01:15:16.630 --> 01:15:23.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Back in the TSPF days, they would have to dial a certain, like, 1-4-1 or whatever, just...
[01:15:23.190 --> 01:15:26.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then get a recording that said, rate step 1-1 or whatever.
[01:15:26.910 --> 01:15:29.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then that would mean to look in her table and...
[01:15:29.630 --> 01:15:30.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: Do you remember that voice?
[01:15:30.830 --> 01:15:31.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: It would be...
[01:15:31.290 --> 01:15:34.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rebel, do you remember that rate step voice was so computerized sounding?
[01:15:35.330 --> 01:15:38.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: I really would say, rate step 1-1 repeat.
[01:15:38.750 --> 01:15:39.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:15:39.730 --> 01:15:40.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's a very good imitation.
[01:15:41.390 --> 01:15:42.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's a very good...
[01:15:42.270 --> 01:15:47.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: And somewhere on one of my old radio shows, I know we have a recording of that, but yeah, that was, that was something else.
[01:15:47.590 --> 01:15:52.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, it was, it was like the way you would picture a voice computer sounding in the 1950s.
[01:15:53.830 --> 01:15:54.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:15:54.250 --> 01:15:56.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they also, like, when you call...
[01:15:56.050 --> 01:15:59.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, our phone number would be, would begin with a 9.
[01:15:59.270 --> 01:16:01.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, the suffix would begin with a 9.
[01:16:01.530 --> 01:16:01.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[01:16:02.290 --> 01:16:05.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: 9-9-9-9-0-1, but like, 9-8-7-2.
[01:16:07.230 --> 01:16:15.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, being that, you know, back in the 60s and 50s, payphones used to have 9 as the beginning of number of a suffix.
[01:16:15.450 --> 01:16:15.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Usually, yes.
[01:16:15.990 --> 01:16:18.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: I would call collect to my house, I'd say.
[01:16:18.970 --> 01:16:26.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: An operator would have to verify that that wasn't a payphone, even though, you know, and this was in the 70s, so...
[01:16:26.070 --> 01:16:29.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they would, they would call it, they would call it a coin box, by the way.
[01:16:30.310 --> 01:16:34.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: A coin box, yeah, but it would say, valid, repeat, valid, or coin.
[01:16:34.890 --> 01:16:35.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Coin.
[01:16:35.310 --> 01:16:35.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Repeat.
[01:16:36.470 --> 01:16:36.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Coin.
[01:16:38.330 --> 01:16:43.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, you should lead a symposium, Rebel, on what all these recordings used to say.
[01:16:43.630 --> 01:16:44.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think there's an audience for this.
[01:16:44.850 --> 01:16:45.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I remember that.
[01:16:45.810 --> 01:17:00.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: But remember, back in the Dell system days, they used to, when you used to, like, pay a dime for a phone call for five minutes, and then when it collects, they give you five minutes for another five cents.
[01:17:00.570 --> 01:17:01.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: It'd be like a penny a minute.
[01:17:01.690 --> 01:17:08.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, basically, they would say, excuse me, please deposit five cents for the next five minutes.
[01:17:08.430 --> 01:17:09.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Are you a call?
[01:17:09.190 --> 01:17:09.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'll be interrupted.
[01:17:10.390 --> 01:17:11.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[01:17:11.390 --> 01:17:12.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is a recording.
[01:17:12.650 --> 01:17:13.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: They would interrupt the coin.
[01:17:14.050 --> 01:17:16.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you didn't put the coin in the five cents, they would interrupt it.
[01:17:16.870 --> 01:17:21.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: It would start clicking and muting the sound for a minute, but you could still hold on a conversation.
[01:17:21.310 --> 01:17:26.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: You could have had people shouting and trying to distract you, and everybody in the phone company would pitch in and just try to get you off the phone.
[01:17:27.030 --> 01:17:28.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right, but then...
[01:17:28.090 --> 01:17:29.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: You could not use a red box for those.
[01:17:30.210 --> 01:17:31.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: That was a different kind of overtime.
[01:17:32.130 --> 01:17:33.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that was local overtime.
[01:17:34.710 --> 01:17:35.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[01:17:35.230 --> 01:17:35.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: But that was...
[01:17:35.730 --> 01:17:48.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then when the phone company broke up, and then when NYNEX, you know, became the local company, then they said, excuse me, please deposit 10 cents for the next few minutes, or your call will be terminated.
[01:17:48.650 --> 01:17:51.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow, that's significantly more expensive, isn't it?
[01:17:52.350 --> 01:17:52.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:17:52.910 --> 01:17:55.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they just disconnect the call, and they don't interrupt it anymore.
[01:17:55.530 --> 01:17:56.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: They just would disconnect you.
[01:17:56.990 --> 01:17:57.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[01:17:59.190 --> 01:18:00.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't even know what they do now.
[01:18:00.730 --> 01:18:02.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: I haven't made a payphone call in a long time.
[01:18:02.690 --> 01:18:03.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I'm always...
[01:18:03.530 --> 01:18:05.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't even know where there's payphones at all.
[01:18:06.050 --> 01:18:08.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they're removing payphones, like, everywhere.
[01:18:08.770 --> 01:18:09.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: So...
[01:18:09.130 --> 01:18:11.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the payphones that are still around don't work.
[01:18:11.450 --> 01:18:11.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[01:18:11.850 --> 01:18:12.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: I always...
[01:18:12.350 --> 01:18:13.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I want to preserve them.
[01:18:13.570 --> 01:18:15.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have not actually used one.
[01:18:15.050 --> 01:18:16.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of course, it's hard to use one.
[01:18:16.850 --> 01:18:17.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: But I should try that.
[01:18:17.990 --> 01:18:22.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: I should find a working payphone, put a quarter in it, make a call and see what happens when my time runs out.
[01:18:22.310 --> 01:18:23.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know there is a working pay.
[01:18:23.570 --> 01:18:25.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I think on, like, Broadway...
[01:18:25.310 --> 01:18:25.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, not Broadway.
[01:18:27.090 --> 01:18:27.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Amsterdam...
[01:18:27.450 --> 01:18:29.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's on the west side somewhere in Manhattan.
[01:18:30.090 --> 01:18:34.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: On, like, West End Avenue and, like, 68th Street or 72nd Street or something.
[01:18:34.490 --> 01:18:34.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[01:18:34.690 --> 01:18:39.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's like one of those Canadian-type phone booths with a Verizon payphone inside.
[01:18:39.690 --> 01:18:41.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's not really a Verizon payphone, but it's...
[01:18:43.670 --> 01:18:44.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if it's still there.
[01:18:45.070 --> 01:18:45.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean...
[01:18:45.490 --> 01:18:59.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I keep hearing rumors of old payphones inside restaurants that the phone company has lost track of and has still rotary dial and might even have the wrong area codes because, you know, cut-overs and expansion area codes and things like that were put into play.
[01:19:00.550 --> 01:19:02.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if that's true, but if you know...
[01:19:02.850 --> 01:19:05.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'd like to see it and take a picture of it.
[01:19:05.470 --> 01:19:06.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: And send it to us, yes.
[01:19:07.830 --> 01:19:12.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I picture the phones from, like, the 19, you know, late 80s, early 90s.
[01:19:12.650 --> 01:19:12.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:19:14.930 --> 01:19:16.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: We've got to carry coins with you.
[01:19:17.510 --> 01:19:17.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:19:18.270 --> 01:19:19.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's a key.
[01:19:19.810 --> 01:19:21.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Everything's more efficient these days.
[01:19:21.650 --> 01:19:21.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[01:19:22.370 --> 01:19:25.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: You don't have to carry cash and coins.
[01:19:25.570 --> 01:19:36.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, you give somebody, you know, it's $1.57 for this candy bar and then you get all this change that's rattling and then when you sit down, it falls out of your pocket and, you know...
[01:19:36.790 --> 01:19:38.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is that what a candy bar costs?
[01:19:38.290 --> 01:19:39.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: $1.57?
[01:19:39.230 --> 01:19:39.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Really?
[01:19:40.030 --> 01:19:40.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, something.
[01:19:40.670 --> 01:19:40.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well...
[01:19:40.970 --> 01:19:42.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's like $2.49, yeah.
[01:19:42.510 --> 01:19:42.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[01:19:43.490 --> 01:19:44.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, we saw...
[01:19:44.730 --> 01:19:49.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: When we were at St. John's, we saw a robotic vending machine that basically...
[01:19:49.850 --> 01:19:53.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know how sodas used to just sort of fall from when you select them?
[01:19:53.670 --> 01:19:56.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, this arm comes, gets it, and brings it down.
[01:19:56.470 --> 01:19:56.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I've seen that.
[01:19:56.890 --> 01:19:57.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know...
[01:19:57.450 --> 01:19:58.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm wondering, why?
[01:19:58.550 --> 01:20:00.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why do you need a robot arm to do this?
[01:20:00.250 --> 01:20:02.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why can't you just push it off the edge like you used to?
[01:20:02.450 --> 01:20:05.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's one more thing to break down, but I was fascinated by it.
[01:20:05.550 --> 01:20:06.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's amazing.
[01:20:06.390 --> 01:20:08.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Vending machine technology has come a long way.
[01:20:08.590 --> 01:20:08.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I live near St. John's.
[01:20:09.310 --> 01:20:12.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm a bicycle ride away from St. John's.
[01:20:12.310 --> 01:20:16.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, then I hope we'll be seeing you at Hope in July.
[01:20:16.190 --> 01:20:17.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, you mean this summer?
[01:20:17.230 --> 01:20:18.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, this summer.
[01:20:18.390 --> 01:20:19.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's going to be coming to the conference.
[01:20:20.190 --> 01:20:20.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:20:20.550 --> 01:20:32.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: I remember back in 1980, 1988 or something, I went to this job fair at the Jurassic Center and New York Telephone, NYNEX New York Telephone, was, I guess they were hiring operators or something.
[01:20:33.090 --> 01:20:38.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I just, this was, they were showing the top console or the computer or whatever.
[01:20:38.950 --> 01:20:42.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: I just remember, I don't remember, I remember it very vaguely.
[01:20:42.850 --> 01:20:51.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I wish I would have, you know, gone into it more, but I remember looking at it and remember being, there being a phone number.
[01:20:51.670 --> 01:20:52.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: I guess it was a display.
[01:20:52.890 --> 01:20:56.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: It wasn't an LED display, but it was a regular, I guess, computer monitor display.
[01:20:57.090 --> 01:20:59.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: And a phone number was on the upper left-hand corner.
[01:21:00.070 --> 01:21:01.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't, you know, it was just a phone number.
[01:21:01.870 --> 01:21:04.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I remember seeing the buttons of the keyboard there.
[01:21:04.450 --> 01:21:07.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I said, you know, where's like position release and all that.
[01:21:07.090 --> 01:21:10.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, I was playing with it, saying, Oh, it's the operator.
[01:21:10.670 --> 01:21:15.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, it she was just, the guy was just saying, Oh, we're, this is what the operator use.
[01:21:15.350 --> 01:21:17.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't remember the encounter career.
[01:21:17.590 --> 01:21:17.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: But I just, no.
[01:21:17.990 --> 01:21:19.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: You should have, you should have applied.
[01:21:19.110 --> 01:21:21.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: You would have made an interesting operator and interest.
[01:21:21.890 --> 01:21:25.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I did go take the New York bed, the test for the phone company.
[01:21:25.430 --> 01:21:30.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: I remember, but I don't think that was like quick and you gotta be like, have to type with certain word or word for minute.
[01:21:30.230 --> 01:21:41.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: and be a pro... you know, I don't know, I don't know if I'd be good with... you got to be quick a certain way and... And not take apart the console to figure out what it does.
[01:21:41.750 --> 01:21:42.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[01:21:43.490 --> 01:21:53.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was thinking the exact same thing, Emmanuel, that Rebel would have made, I think, the most interesting telephone operator in the New York telephone system there.
[01:21:53.990 --> 01:21:56.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: You could have made quite a splash there, Rebel.
[01:21:56.310 --> 01:21:57.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, absolutely.
[01:21:57.270 --> 01:21:57.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely.
[01:21:58.410 --> 01:21:59.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: And now there are no operators.
[01:21:59.730 --> 01:22:01.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Actually, there might be operators still somewhere.
[01:22:02.230 --> 01:22:15.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, there are... wait, there's operators, but they're in other... well, the operators that you, when you call 1-800-CALL-AT... not call AT&T, 1-800-COLLECT, when you call that, that's in another country, I guess, or in India or something.
[01:22:15.150 --> 01:22:23.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: But I was in a hotel in Florida at Walt Disney, and I called... I called the operator just to see what it is.
[01:22:23.470 --> 01:22:27.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: It was AT&T, you know, and... so, you know, it was a regular AT&T operator.
[01:22:27.650 --> 01:22:30.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're just... I just... you know... So... And when I go to California, I'll do the same thing.
[01:22:30.990 --> 01:22:31.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's where they are.
[01:22:31.750 --> 01:22:33.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Disney World, that's where all the operators wound up.
[01:22:35.230 --> 01:22:35.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:22:36.430 --> 01:22:36.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Interesting.
[01:22:37.070 --> 01:22:37.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: In a long term.
[01:22:37.450 --> 01:22:39.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: When I go to California, I'll play with phones more.
[01:22:39.370 --> 01:22:40.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, all right.
[01:22:40.010 --> 01:22:41.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: You keep dropping this hand.
[01:22:41.090 --> 01:22:41.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're going to California.
[01:22:41.610 --> 01:22:42.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are you going to California, Rebel?
[01:22:43.890 --> 01:22:44.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, in January.
[01:22:45.110 --> 01:22:45.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, all right.
[01:22:46.150 --> 01:22:46.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are you coming back?
[01:22:49.110 --> 01:22:57.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I... well... yeah, I hope... well... I'm coming back, but... I am coming back, but...
[01:22:57.690 --> 01:22:59.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: The Brooklyn Dodgers never came back.
[01:22:59.370 --> 01:23:00.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: The New York Giants never came back.
[01:23:01.250 --> 01:23:05.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, they go out there, they just stay at... and... Well, I like to... Well, I don't know.
[01:23:05.730 --> 01:23:09.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I'd like to stay for the winter, and maybe come back in, like, March or April.
[01:23:09.330 --> 01:23:11.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: They don't have winter there, so you wouldn't be staying for the winter.
[01:23:12.070 --> 01:23:12.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know what I'm saying?
[01:23:12.290 --> 01:23:16.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'd like To stay for the winter, stay for... He's gonna wait out winter.
[01:23:17.450 --> 01:23:23.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: You basically want to go into suspended animation and miss our winter and live in whatever they call that season over there.
[01:23:24.410 --> 01:23:24.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[01:23:25.810 --> 01:23:26.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[01:23:26.350 --> 01:23:27.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let him go if he wants to.
[01:23:27.550 --> 01:23:28.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, he might have fun.
[01:23:28.630 --> 01:23:29.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: By all means, no.
[01:23:29.930 --> 01:23:33.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Safe travels and all that, but... Remember when you called Drake's dad?
[01:23:33.850 --> 01:23:36.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, there was this... Yes.
[01:23:36.710 --> 01:23:41.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: This resort up in, like, Northern California, up in, like, the mountains, like, north of, like, Sacramento.
[01:23:41.970 --> 01:23:42.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: What do they call that?
[01:23:43.010 --> 01:23:45.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: They call that a toll switch or something?
[01:23:45.450 --> 01:23:45.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Toll station.
[01:23:45.650 --> 01:23:46.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Toll station.
[01:23:46.370 --> 01:23:46.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's it.
[01:23:46.810 --> 01:23:50.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Where they didn't get... where they didn't get phone... incoming phone calls or something.
[01:23:50.490 --> 01:23:53.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: They had to go to an operator to get incoming phone calls or something like that.
[01:23:54.470 --> 01:23:54.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Amazing.
[01:23:54.850 --> 01:23:55.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: How did that work?
[01:23:56.570 --> 01:24:02.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just know you wound up speaking to an operator and you'd have to say the name of the place.
[01:24:02.690 --> 01:24:06.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: I like toll station number... I like Drake's dad toll station number two, whatever.
[01:24:06.490 --> 01:24:07.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like Drake's bad seven or something.
[01:24:08.250 --> 01:24:08.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:24:08.510 --> 01:24:13.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right, and that would correspond to whatever phone number and then they'd call them or something.
[01:24:13.850 --> 01:24:23.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I remember going there like 15, 20 years ago maybe, and then just playing with their phones at that place and talking to an operator in Susanville, California.
[01:24:23.430 --> 01:24:27.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: There are still independent phone companies in various places if you find them.
[01:24:27.410 --> 01:24:31.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: We saw a couple when we were driving back across the states last month.
[01:24:32.550 --> 01:24:35.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: They might be very interesting places to get tours of.
[01:24:36.810 --> 01:24:39.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right, but did they have payphones?
[01:24:39.270 --> 01:24:40.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: How did you know they were independent phone companies?
[01:24:40.810 --> 01:24:45.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: We saw a building that said local town independent phone company.
[01:24:46.310 --> 01:24:47.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not necessarily Frontier.
[01:24:48.030 --> 01:24:48.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Smaller than that.
[01:24:49.130 --> 01:24:50.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, like Bob.
[01:24:51.910 --> 01:24:56.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, here in New York there's Frontier and I think that's GTE maybe?
[01:24:58.230 --> 01:24:59.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: GTE's not around anymore, I don't think.
[01:25:02.590 --> 01:25:03.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's see.
[01:25:03.510 --> 01:25:05.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, the Drake's bad thing.
[01:25:05.190 --> 01:25:07.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: and then the operator and...
[01:25:07.170 --> 01:25:08.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Didn't Verizon take over GTE?
[01:25:08.450 --> 01:25:09.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: They don't have those anymore.
[01:25:10.170 --> 01:25:11.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm pretty sure they did.
[01:25:11.610 --> 01:25:12.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: They took over GTE.
[01:25:12.890 --> 01:25:15.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: They took over the Connecticut company there.
[01:25:16.050 --> 01:25:17.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Didn't Verizon take over GTE?
[01:25:17.750 --> 01:25:18.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: S-N-E-T.
[01:25:18.530 --> 01:25:21.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, SNET, Southern New England Telephone.
[01:25:21.650 --> 01:25:22.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
[01:25:24.450 --> 01:25:27.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: I miss those days where every state had their own.
[01:25:27.570 --> 01:25:30.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Bell of Pennsylvania and CNW and D.C.
[01:25:31.110 --> 01:25:33.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's what the community phone companies are like.
[01:25:33.450 --> 01:25:39.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're like, you know, small town phone and Internet or whatever, you know?
[01:25:39.530 --> 01:25:42.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's where people will get their DSL.
[01:25:42.630 --> 01:25:43.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, I'm just kidding.
[01:25:44.130 --> 01:25:47.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wireless or local contract.
[01:25:47.150 --> 01:25:52.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's rural or maybe off the beaten path in a place where there aren't a lot of customers.
[01:25:52.890 --> 01:26:04.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: So they're able to just kind of pool together people that have a vested interest in communicating, are planning on connecting up and running a business or communicating.
[01:26:04.790 --> 01:26:16.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's a practical way to get a bulk purchase and keep people connected and not so distant while they're physically removed.
[01:26:16.610 --> 01:26:17.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rob, did you have something to say?
[01:26:17.970 --> 01:26:19.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, just a quick point of trivia.
[01:26:20.030 --> 01:26:23.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: GTE and Bell Atlantic merged and that's where we got Verizon.
[01:26:23.370 --> 01:26:24.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, that's what happened.
[01:26:24.810 --> 01:26:27.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: They formed together and created Verizon.
[01:26:27.770 --> 01:26:28.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[01:26:28.330 --> 01:26:33.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: And of course, Bell Atlantic swallowed NYNEX at one point and we became Bell Atlantic for a little while.
[01:26:33.870 --> 01:26:34.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you remember that?
[01:26:34.690 --> 01:26:36.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you remember those days when we were Bell Atlantic here?
[01:26:36.730 --> 01:26:37.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yes.
[01:26:37.470 --> 01:26:37.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:26:37.650 --> 01:26:47.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: If anybody knows anything about running a cooperative telephone company, we would like you to write oth@2600.com or call in.
[01:26:47.970 --> 01:26:56.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're really interested in how co-op or non-profit telephone companies work and what it would take.
[01:26:56.610 --> 01:26:59.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Are there even such a non-profit telephone company?
[01:26:59.330 --> 01:27:01.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, a 501c12.
[01:27:02.110 --> 01:27:03.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, definitely.
[01:27:03.830 --> 01:27:05.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: An actual telephone company?
[01:27:05.310 --> 01:27:06.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: A utility company?
[01:27:06.790 --> 01:27:07.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's a non-profit?
[01:27:07.670 --> 01:27:07.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:27:08.210 --> 01:27:10.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it's a cooperative telephone company.
[01:27:10.250 --> 01:27:20.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're very interested in that specifically, running a 501c12 and how hard it is or what kinds of things you encounter in your community.
[01:27:20.190 --> 01:27:22.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're really interested in what kinds of things are going on.
[01:27:22.410 --> 01:27:28.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: We've seen this in northern Canada, people pooling resources, getting high-speed Internet and stuff.
[01:27:29.170 --> 01:27:33.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: So if you're doing this kind of project, we want to hear your story.
[01:27:33.490 --> 01:27:37.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: I feel like we're hurtling towards a Green Acres episode.
[01:27:37.430 --> 01:27:41.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you've never seen it, there's a series of episodes actually where they run their own phone company.
[01:27:42.350 --> 01:27:47.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they're climbing poles and fixing all kinds of problems and dealing with the Public Futility Commission.
[01:27:47.890 --> 01:27:49.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, the Public Futility Commission.
[01:27:49.590 --> 01:27:50.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: It actually is really well done.
[01:27:50.990 --> 01:27:55.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I guess that might be the world we're heading towards.
[01:27:55.930 --> 01:27:59.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, it's not a bad world, to be honest, running an online phone company.
[01:27:59.870 --> 01:28:15.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, E, if the alternative is this giant thing that is impersonal and has absolutely no, it's just a giant computer with employees, like, you know, that's some kind of a worthwhile trade-off.
[01:28:15.490 --> 01:28:18.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I don't actually mind the smaller, more approachable one.
[01:28:18.950 --> 01:28:24.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if I can't get much other than carrier jargon out of the larger one.
[01:28:24.750 --> 01:28:31.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but then again, the post-apocalyptic scene of, like, the massive computer that doesn't care, and the barren landscape, there's something kind of appealing about that, too.
[01:28:31.670 --> 01:28:32.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[01:28:32.110 --> 01:28:32.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm torn.
[01:28:32.730 --> 01:28:36.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm torn between the homespun charm and the futility of it all.
[01:28:36.550 --> 01:28:43.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think there's aspects of both, you know, and a huge, giant spectrum of gray area in between.
[01:28:44.050 --> 01:28:44.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's our brains.
[01:28:45.450 --> 01:28:46.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yeah.
[01:28:46.570 --> 01:28:49.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: But doesn't it cost, like, a couple of million dollars to do this?
[01:28:49.750 --> 01:28:51.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, how are we going to get the money done?
[01:28:51.270 --> 01:28:53.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Money is no object, because we don't intend on paying for anything.
[01:28:54.370 --> 01:28:55.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, we don't use dollars.
[01:28:55.990 --> 01:28:56.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:28:56.970 --> 01:28:58.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's so last century.
[01:28:58.850 --> 01:29:00.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alex, what did you have here?
[01:29:00.990 --> 01:29:19.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: I wanted to chime in here about this, because I had this Proustian moment in talking about telephone companies and, you know, run by the community and things, and I thought back to this experience I had in law school in Vermont.
[01:29:19.210 --> 01:29:24.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: I went to law school in Vermont, and I have another law degree from the UK as well.
[01:29:24.270 --> 01:29:31.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: But in Vermont, my second year, I was moving to a new town.
[01:29:31.910 --> 01:29:34.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: And have you ever heard of Norwich University?
[01:29:34.470 --> 01:29:36.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Has anybody ever heard of that in Vermont?
[01:29:36.330 --> 01:29:38.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: It sounds vaguely familiar, but I don't know.
[01:29:38.010 --> 01:29:38.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: I believe it exists.
[01:29:38.610 --> 01:29:39.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: I believe it's there.
[01:29:39.710 --> 01:29:40.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: It could be there.
[01:29:40.670 --> 01:29:43.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: The thing that's interesting about it is, it's actually, it's a military academy.
[01:29:44.030 --> 01:29:46.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a private military academy that's a university.
[01:29:47.590 --> 01:29:49.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
[01:29:49.090 --> 01:29:50.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: A private military academy?
[01:29:50.430 --> 01:29:52.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, it's a different military than the U.S.
[01:29:52.150 --> 01:29:52.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: military?
[01:29:52.570 --> 01:29:53.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, mercenary school.
[01:29:53.290 --> 01:29:58.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, well, no, it's a military academy, but it's run privately.
[01:29:58.910 --> 01:30:01.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Which military do they help?
[01:30:02.690 --> 01:30:04.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: The United States military.
[01:30:04.770 --> 01:30:05.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Amazon.
[01:30:05.250 --> 01:30:06.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's right, yeah.
[01:30:06.310 --> 01:30:07.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Amazon, all right.
[01:30:07.410 --> 01:30:11.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is 125 years old, I think.
[01:30:11.930 --> 01:30:12.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, I'm sorry.
[01:30:12.830 --> 01:30:13.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not 125 years old.
[01:30:13.950 --> 01:30:16.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's about 110 years old, I think.
[01:30:16.970 --> 01:30:19.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's like 1819 or something was Norwich University.
[01:30:19.610 --> 01:30:26.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: But in any event, Northfield is where, okay, so there's another town in Vermont called Norwich.
[01:30:26.610 --> 01:30:30.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Norwich University, of course, does not exist in Norwich, Vermont.
[01:30:30.690 --> 01:30:33.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Norwich, Vermont is actually closer to Dartmouth.
[01:30:34.910 --> 01:30:39.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: But Northfield, Vermont is the site of Norwich University.
[01:30:39.850 --> 01:30:44.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I almost lived there, and I almost actually took a teaching gig there.
[01:30:44.210 --> 01:30:47.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I remembered something really specific about Northfield, Vermont.
[01:30:48.410 --> 01:30:50.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: They run their own telephone company.
[01:30:50.610 --> 01:30:52.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do they call it the Norwich Telephone Company?
[01:30:53.430 --> 01:30:54.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, it's not Norwich.
[01:30:55.110 --> 01:30:58.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I just want to get past this confusion with the name.
[01:30:58.290 --> 01:30:59.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Norwich University is in Northfield.
[01:31:00.930 --> 01:31:02.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Did they just confuse themselves?
[01:31:02.630 --> 01:31:03.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are they trying to confuse us?
[01:31:04.150 --> 01:31:05.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think so, yeah.
[01:31:05.670 --> 01:31:13.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: But so in this weird little, you know, enclave that's sort of like a tiny little country military town is...
[01:31:13.370 --> 01:31:13.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I love those.
[01:31:14.790 --> 01:31:16.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Country military town.
[01:31:16.390 --> 01:31:18.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: But it is the Northfield Telephone Company.
[01:31:18.990 --> 01:31:20.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: I remember seeing this.
[01:31:20.690 --> 01:31:23.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: I remember talking with people about it when I almost lived there.
[01:31:23.810 --> 01:31:28.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: I decided not to take the house in Northfield and move into Montpelier.
[01:31:28.850 --> 01:31:31.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: But it is the Northfield Telephone Company.
[01:31:31.190 --> 01:31:32.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I just looked it up.
[01:31:32.930 --> 01:31:35.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: And Kyle, this will answer some of your questions, too.
[01:31:35.990 --> 01:31:42.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: This says, the business description is that the Northfield Telephone Company, which also operates under the name, inexplicably, TDS.
[01:31:43.050 --> 01:31:45.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: It doesn't describe what TDS stands for.
[01:31:47.030 --> 01:31:49.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's located in Northfield, Vermont.
[01:31:49.430 --> 01:31:59.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: This organization operates primarily in the telephone communication, except radio business and communication sector, and has been operating for approximately 125 years.
[01:32:00.370 --> 01:32:07.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Northfield Telephone Company is estimated to generate $2.3 million in revenue and annual revenues and employs approximately...
[01:32:08.530 --> 01:32:10.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: How many people do you think are employed there?
[01:32:11.110 --> 01:32:12.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's do an over-under here.
[01:32:13.230 --> 01:32:13.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: How many people?
[01:32:13.730 --> 01:32:16.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's the approximate population in this place?
[01:32:18.850 --> 01:32:20.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is it a village?
[01:32:20.730 --> 01:32:21.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is it a village?
[01:32:22.010 --> 01:32:24.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is it a city?
[01:32:24.890 --> 01:32:24.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: What?
[01:32:25.150 --> 01:32:25.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm guessing five.
[01:32:26.270 --> 01:32:28.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think there's like 6,000 people in the town.
[01:32:29.110 --> 01:32:30.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe 6,000 to 10,000.
[01:32:30.310 --> 01:32:31.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's got to be smaller than 10,000.
[01:32:31.530 --> 01:32:35.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Then I'm going to take Kyle's bet of five and undercut it and say three.
[01:32:35.790 --> 01:32:37.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rob, Gila, do you have any bets there?
[01:32:39.470 --> 01:32:41.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have no horse in this race.
[01:32:42.730 --> 01:32:45.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have 10 people working there.
[01:32:45.370 --> 01:32:46.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rebel says 10.
[01:32:47.570 --> 01:32:48.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: $1.
[01:32:50.290 --> 01:32:50.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[01:32:50.830 --> 01:32:52.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: I will say 15.
[01:32:52.770 --> 01:32:53.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: 15.
[01:32:53.290 --> 01:32:54.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: And Gila's walked away.
[01:32:54.450 --> 01:32:55.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, okay.
[01:32:56.070 --> 01:32:57.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's the number, Alex?
[01:32:57.410 --> 01:32:58.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, you said five.
[01:32:59.610 --> 01:33:01.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Kyle, Emmanuel, you said three.
[01:33:01.470 --> 01:33:01.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's right.
[01:33:02.070 --> 01:33:02.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rebel said 10.
[01:33:03.190 --> 01:33:04.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what did you say again, Rob?
[01:33:05.170 --> 01:33:06.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: I said 15.
[01:33:06.150 --> 01:33:06.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: 15, okay.
[01:33:06.870 --> 01:33:07.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, what is it?
[01:33:07.810 --> 01:33:20.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: The inimitable and brilliant winner here is none other than Rich the Rebel, who is great star airwaves once again after such a hiatus.
[01:33:21.130 --> 01:33:22.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's actually eight.
[01:33:22.230 --> 01:33:23.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Only eight people work there.
[01:33:24.290 --> 01:33:25.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Eight employees.
[01:33:25.890 --> 01:33:27.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's all it takes.
[01:33:27.990 --> 01:33:33.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's, you know, that's 16 part-time people working half-time, right?
[01:33:33.470 --> 01:33:35.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's, you know, and you can just go from there.
[01:33:37.350 --> 01:33:38.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's absolutely amazing.
[01:33:38.890 --> 01:33:39.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: It takes eight people.
[01:33:39.910 --> 01:33:44.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Who fixes the phones and who fixes the switches and the wires and things like that.
[01:33:44.330 --> 01:33:47.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, Alex, does Northfield Telephone Company in Vermont still exist?
[01:33:48.230 --> 01:33:49.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it does.
[01:33:49.350 --> 01:33:50.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, they don't have a Wikipedia page.
[01:33:50.790 --> 01:33:51.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just looked it up.
[01:33:52.750 --> 01:33:53.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: What?
[01:33:53.250 --> 01:33:54.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, it doesn't?
[01:33:54.150 --> 01:33:54.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Really?
[01:33:54.450 --> 01:33:56.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can't find it unless it's called something else.
[01:33:57.050 --> 01:33:57.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, there are...
[01:33:57.950 --> 01:33:58.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Something called TDS.
[01:33:59.630 --> 01:34:02.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's TDS Fiber I'm seeing here.
[01:34:02.070 --> 01:34:03.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know if it's the same thing.
[01:34:03.490 --> 01:34:05.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: How does the Northfield Telephone Company get known as TDS?
[01:34:06.610 --> 01:34:08.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: How do you get TDS at the Northfield Telephone Company?
[01:34:09.230 --> 01:34:10.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's what I said.
[01:34:10.430 --> 01:34:12.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was inexplicably called TDS.
[01:34:12.210 --> 01:34:12.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, no, they don't have it.
[01:34:12.890 --> 01:34:13.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: I couldn't describe it.
[01:34:15.430 --> 01:34:23.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's, it's, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, you have to Google it and it'll come up and under the, uh, Dun & Bradstreet, I guess it's there.
[01:34:23.950 --> 01:34:25.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, wait a minute, Northfield, no.
[01:34:26.070 --> 01:34:28.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: They don't have a website, but...
[01:34:28.510 --> 01:34:30.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: They don't have a website either?
[01:34:30.830 --> 01:34:31.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, they don't have...
[01:34:31.530 --> 01:34:34.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's just, uh, it's just actually, it's not a website.
[01:34:34.730 --> 01:34:35.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's just...
[01:34:35.930 --> 01:34:40.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go to Dun & Bradstreet, you just Google Northfield Telephone and it'll come up.
[01:34:40.190 --> 01:34:42.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Dun & Bradstreet, which I guess...
[01:34:42.190 --> 01:34:44.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do not say Dunn and Bradstreet one more time, please.
[01:34:45.010 --> 01:34:45.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, come on.
[01:34:46.490 --> 01:34:50.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, there's some financial... I guess they rate businesses or something.
[01:34:50.210 --> 01:34:50.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's...
[01:34:50.650 --> 01:34:51.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's what they do, yes.
[01:34:51.730 --> 01:34:52.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's their whole thing.
[01:34:52.810 --> 01:34:53.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Kyle, you had something.
[01:34:54.130 --> 01:34:58.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're just saying that they existed in one point in time ever.
[01:34:59.130 --> 01:35:00.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: I would just comment...
[01:35:00.770 --> 01:35:06.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it both surprises me and sort of contradicts what I'm going to say, that there are a lot of tools to running these kinds of things.
[01:35:06.530 --> 01:35:16.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Think about how much you can do to register someone online now versus years and years ago, where you would have a lot of paper forms and filling out things.
[01:35:17.830 --> 01:35:24.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: And so to that end, running a small company like this, you would have to deal with customers.
[01:35:24.730 --> 01:35:26.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: You would have to deal with repairs and stuff like that.
[01:35:26.750 --> 01:35:29.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I think maybe there's answers in...
[01:35:29.730 --> 01:35:29.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's a call number.
[01:35:30.270 --> 01:35:35.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Answers in how contractors fit in or if...
[01:35:35.650 --> 01:35:38.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because do they need to have full-time installers necessarily?
[01:35:38.870 --> 01:35:48.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or do they structure that type of problem in a different way than what we've seen for so many years with other forms?
[01:35:48.790 --> 01:35:49.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're just curious.
[01:35:49.910 --> 01:35:51.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think this is fascinating.
[01:35:51.510 --> 01:35:52.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: And there are so many of them.
[01:35:52.510 --> 01:35:54.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: The fact that they don't have a website, I digress.
[01:35:54.950 --> 01:35:56.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: It both surprised me and doesn't.
[01:35:56.650 --> 01:35:58.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: In fact, why would they need one?
[01:35:58.650 --> 01:36:07.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe it is such a small user base that it's something that people just walk down the street and go in and handle their business in person or something.
[01:36:07.250 --> 01:36:10.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think I might want to go up there and see if they still exist.
[01:36:11.590 --> 01:36:13.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Knock on their door and see who answers.
[01:36:14.110 --> 01:36:15.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: They have a phone number.
[01:36:15.570 --> 01:36:16.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alex, Road Trip?
[01:36:17.390 --> 01:36:18.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: What do you say?
[01:36:18.190 --> 01:36:20.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I love my Internet connection.
[01:36:20.390 --> 01:36:21.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: They have a phone number.
[01:36:21.030 --> 01:36:21.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: They have a phone number here.
[01:36:22.250 --> 01:36:23.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: They have a two-phone number.
[01:36:23.590 --> 01:36:35.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: I knew people that were involved in small telephone companies and were able to, just like so many people are doing now, were able to work remotely and maintain that network wherever they were.
[01:36:36.270 --> 01:36:42.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it's, I'm sure, just like any other utility business these days, just on a very micro scale.
[01:36:43.730 --> 01:36:48.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rebel, we've been talking to you for over 40 minutes, and maybe we want to let another caller get in.
[01:36:48.390 --> 01:36:49.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's been fun.
[01:36:49.930 --> 01:36:53.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's been really enlightening and a good trip down memory lane and memory boulevard.
[01:36:54.710 --> 01:36:55.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:36:55.430 --> 01:36:56.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: They have a phone number.
[01:36:56.930 --> 01:36:59.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Would you like their phone number, the Northfield Telephone Company?
[01:36:59.610 --> 01:37:00.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, sure.
[01:37:00.110 --> 01:37:00.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, sure, why not?
[01:37:00.470 --> 01:37:01.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're all about giving out information.
[01:37:01.790 --> 01:37:02.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's immortalize it, yes.
[01:37:02.990 --> 01:37:04.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if it still works, though.
[01:37:04.630 --> 01:37:06.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's area code 802...
[01:37:06.350 --> 01:37:07.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Could have told you that.
[01:37:08.330 --> 01:37:08.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: 485...
[01:37:08.690 --> 01:37:08.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[01:37:10.690 --> 01:37:11.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: 9784.
[01:37:11.950 --> 01:37:12.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: 9784.
[01:37:12.990 --> 01:37:13.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Be nice to them.
[01:37:16.010 --> 01:37:16.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: 24 deposit...
[01:37:17.470 --> 01:37:18.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Depot Square?
[01:37:18.570 --> 01:37:19.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if this is accurate.
[01:37:19.950 --> 01:37:20.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alex, you're calling them?
[01:37:21.030 --> 01:37:23.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: You just made a phone call with your cell phone.
[01:37:23.150 --> 01:37:25.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anybody else calling, please be friendly.
[01:37:25.470 --> 01:37:25.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Alex is calling them.
[01:37:26.390 --> 01:37:27.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not calling them.
[01:37:27.530 --> 01:37:28.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's the holidays.
[01:37:28.530 --> 01:37:29.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: They might be...
[01:37:29.110 --> 01:37:29.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alex is calling.
[01:37:29.730 --> 01:37:31.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm trying to get Alex to say something here.
[01:37:31.790 --> 01:37:33.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: What did you find out?
[01:37:34.290 --> 01:37:36.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, let's listen.
[01:37:36.030 --> 01:37:37.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, you're calling them live.
[01:37:37.330 --> 01:37:37.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:37:37.730 --> 01:37:38.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's listen.
[01:37:38.190 --> 01:37:39.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're probably having their Christmas party.
[01:37:41.350 --> 01:37:44.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: Peter Gove is not available to take your call.
[01:37:44.910 --> 01:37:46.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Please leave a message after the telephone.
[01:37:46.670 --> 01:37:49.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now you gave out the guy's name who runs the phone company.
[01:37:50.410 --> 01:37:52.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: We just doxed Peter Gove.
[01:37:52.650 --> 01:37:53.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I did it again.
[01:37:53.910 --> 01:37:54.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[01:37:55.010 --> 01:37:59.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're not trying to make frenemies in the small telco game.
[01:38:00.030 --> 01:38:02.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: It could be the highest telephone executive that we've ever reached, though.
[01:38:02.430 --> 01:38:03.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Think about that.
[01:38:03.570 --> 01:38:06.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: It would be interesting if that was actually Rebel's arch enemy.
[01:38:07.070 --> 01:38:07.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[01:38:07.750 --> 01:38:09.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: And he just gave out their phone number for no reason.
[01:38:10.310 --> 01:38:11.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, exactly.
[01:38:11.290 --> 01:38:12.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, nice.
[01:38:12.030 --> 01:38:12.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll find out.
[01:38:13.130 --> 01:38:18.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, Rebel, we're going to disconnect now, as the operators would say, and see if anybody else is out there.
[01:38:18.110 --> 01:38:19.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: At the operators of Crest?
[01:38:19.350 --> 01:38:19.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[01:38:20.510 --> 01:38:22.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Have a fun trip out there.
[01:38:23.730 --> 01:38:25.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, well, I'll call in, of course.
[01:38:25.630 --> 01:38:26.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, absolutely.
[01:38:26.630 --> 01:38:27.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: At least I'll try.
[01:38:27.530 --> 01:38:28.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I'll try.
[01:38:29.590 --> 01:38:30.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, depending on where I would be.
[01:38:31.090 --> 01:38:31.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's see.
[01:38:31.770 --> 01:38:32.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Where will it be?
[01:38:32.410 --> 01:38:33.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wednesday or the end?
[01:38:33.270 --> 01:38:33.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, no.
[01:38:33.930 --> 01:38:34.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Don't say that.
[01:38:34.410 --> 01:38:35.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I'm hanging out.
[01:38:35.110 --> 01:38:35.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we got to go.
[01:38:35.770 --> 01:38:36.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bye, Rebel.
[01:38:36.370 --> 01:38:36.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bye.
[01:38:39.800 --> 01:38:40.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[01:38:40.560 --> 01:38:41.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that was something.
[01:38:42.180 --> 01:38:45.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe we should have 45-minute calls with each caller.
[01:38:46.280 --> 01:38:47.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: I enjoyed talking to her.
[01:38:47.700 --> 01:38:48.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was great to hear.
[01:38:48.500 --> 01:38:53.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's so many different conversations there, and that's the very nature of discussion.
[01:38:53.140 --> 01:38:54.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's why we do this.
[01:38:54.340 --> 01:39:00.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's good to remember the things that used to be, and some that still are, and might be in the future.
[01:39:00.280 --> 01:39:02.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, there's people out there that know about what is.
[01:39:03.040 --> 01:39:04.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: They just can't call.
[01:39:07.310 --> 01:39:08.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, someone's calling now.
[01:39:08.770 --> 01:39:09.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's such a wimpy ring.
[01:39:10.130 --> 01:39:11.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, why don't you make it louder?
[01:39:13.230 --> 01:39:17.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have a landline here that isn't very enthusiastic, about being a landline.
[01:39:17.630 --> 01:39:18.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Also, not in the holiday spirit.
[01:39:19.130 --> 01:39:19.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:39:20.910 --> 01:39:21.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead.
[01:39:21.570 --> 01:39:22.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on the radio.
[01:39:22.830 --> 01:39:24.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, you're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:39:25.430 --> 01:39:25.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hi.
[01:39:27.170 --> 01:39:27.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hello?
[01:39:28.030 --> 01:39:33.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: You want an update on my attempts to keep my copper line?
[01:39:33.950 --> 01:39:35.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sounds like you've kept it.
[01:39:35.450 --> 01:39:35.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:39:35.930 --> 01:39:36.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[01:39:36.370 --> 01:39:54.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, it's still at the, my, let's see, Brad Hoylman's office is advising me to play for time while they try and see if they can do anything.
[01:39:54.770 --> 01:39:55.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:39:55.330 --> 01:39:57.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, who is this who is advising you?
[01:39:57.510 --> 01:39:58.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Brad Hoylman.
[01:39:58.790 --> 01:39:59.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: And who is that?
[01:39:59.350 --> 01:40:00.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: An elected official.
[01:40:00.410 --> 01:40:02.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: You found somebody.
[01:40:02.150 --> 01:40:02.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's great.
[01:40:02.570 --> 01:40:03.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: That is amazing.
[01:40:03.490 --> 01:40:03.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[01:40:04.170 --> 01:40:04.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: That is great.
[01:40:04.950 --> 01:40:07.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what is this person elected as?
[01:40:09.110 --> 01:40:09.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: What are they?
[01:40:10.910 --> 01:40:12.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: I live in the Chelsea area.
[01:40:12.870 --> 01:40:13.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:40:13.110 --> 01:40:15.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: But what are, are they an assemblyman, a senator?
[01:40:15.350 --> 01:40:16.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think so, yeah.
[01:40:16.330 --> 01:40:17.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: A state senator, I believe.
[01:40:17.830 --> 01:40:18.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: A state senator?
[01:40:18.690 --> 01:40:19.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[01:40:19.370 --> 01:40:20.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know every elected official.
[01:40:21.390 --> 01:40:23.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Brad Hoylman, I think, is a state senator.
[01:40:23.550 --> 01:40:25.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can find out about it if you want to.
[01:40:25.630 --> 01:40:30.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, this is just, it's just good guidance for other listeners who might have the same problem.
[01:40:30.430 --> 01:40:35.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you got a response by this particular elected official, I'm going to look them up.
[01:40:35.550 --> 01:40:36.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's the name again?
[01:40:37.970 --> 01:40:38.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: Brad Hoylman.
[01:40:39.110 --> 01:40:39.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:40:39.570 --> 01:40:48.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: They also directed me to the New York Utility Project, which I left phone messages, but nobody's gotten back to me.
[01:40:48.770 --> 01:40:54.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Apparently, they've had an overwhelming crush of emergency calls.
[01:40:55.410 --> 01:40:57.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: I wonder why.
[01:40:57.830 --> 01:41:00.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, herein is the connection.
[01:41:00.450 --> 01:41:00.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[01:41:01.230 --> 01:41:14.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, Brad Hoylman, by the way, is a New York state senator, so I think you've definitely hit the right combination here, so contact your state senator, and they might be as responsive as Brad Hoylman has been so far.
[01:41:14.950 --> 01:41:34.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, anyway, I'm supposed, you know, on January 1st, I will call them up and arrange for, you know, Fios at the latest possible date, playing for time, which is not exactly, you know, a breakthrough.
[01:41:35.770 --> 01:41:40.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, it depends how much you can string them along for, um...
[01:41:40.730 --> 01:41:42.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Invariably, they'll want to schedule something.
[01:41:42.830 --> 01:41:43.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I guess I'll find out.
[01:41:43.510 --> 01:41:44.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: They'll schedule something.
[01:41:45.090 --> 01:41:47.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can be unavailable for, like, indefinitely.
[01:41:47.870 --> 01:41:48.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's true.
[01:41:49.710 --> 01:41:51.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or, you know, away for a long time.
[01:41:55.130 --> 01:42:06.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I think they're going to want to do it at some point, but since they're switching everybody else over, also, maybe they won't be in such a particular hurry about me.
[01:42:06.690 --> 01:42:07.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: Who knows?
[01:42:07.170 --> 01:42:12.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, if you can find any other people that feel the same way, that, uh, employ the same tactics, then, uh, it becomes a pain for them.
[01:42:13.110 --> 01:42:29.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: And use the time, uh, continuing to, uh, you know, call out, uh, here, and just finding other resources, getting allies, and getting, uh, uh, some other avenues to pursue.
[01:42:29.630 --> 01:42:32.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Use that copper line to help save that copper line.
[01:42:34.410 --> 01:42:42.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I was just filling out a general inquiry form contacting the office of public, the public advocate.
[01:42:43.330 --> 01:42:47.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know whether the public advocate can do anything, but I guess it can't hurt.
[01:42:47.790 --> 01:42:48.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: Can't hurt.
[01:42:48.410 --> 01:42:49.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: For me to ask.
[01:42:49.330 --> 01:42:53.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Contact as many people as you possibly can, and, uh, you might really find a solution to this.
[01:42:57.890 --> 01:42:59.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm doing my best.
[01:42:59.450 --> 01:43:00.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you're doing well.
[01:43:00.350 --> 01:43:01.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're doing really well.
[01:43:01.070 --> 01:43:03.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, hopefully inspiration to many other people.
[01:43:03.810 --> 01:43:17.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I hope that, uh, maybe you could act fast and, uh, uh, uh, put your, uh, throw up your copper landline company really quick so that I can be your first customer.
[01:43:17.910 --> 01:43:21.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, well, you know, imagine the local company for, for New York City, for Chelsea.
[01:43:21.950 --> 01:43:25.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: That would be, you know, you'd have your work cut out for you, but it'd be interesting.
[01:43:27.090 --> 01:43:49.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, let me, let me do a shout out also, uh, on the once a month meetings of 2600, um, let me encourage people to try the Zoom one, because, uh, this last time I was all lone and lorn.
[01:43:49.650 --> 01:43:53.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I hope somebody else will say hi, too, next time.
[01:43:53.650 --> 01:43:59.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: We had, we heard reports, uh, I don't know, Rob might have an update that it is still available, but it is underutilized.
[01:44:00.270 --> 01:44:13.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's, it's been, it's been utilized less and less, uh, since we started doing meetings in person again, but I have a feeling the news being what they are now, um, and the situation being what it is, I think more people are going to be interested in,
[01:44:13.310 --> 01:44:19.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: uh, using, in attending the, uh, 2600 meeting remotely rather than physically in a couple of weeks.
[01:44:19.470 --> 01:44:26.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think we should just say here right now, uh, 2600 meetings, enjoy the holiday, stay at home for January.
[01:44:27.030 --> 01:44:36.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just, you know, this, this one month, let's all just play it safe because, uh, you know, the Omicron is, is going nuts and let's reconvene in February.
[01:44:36.430 --> 01:44:37.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think that makes more sense.
[01:44:38.970 --> 01:44:39.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: It does make sense.
[01:44:39.990 --> 01:44:46.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, we have two and a half weeks and the news has been like drastically different every day, trending toward, uh, doom.
[01:44:46.310 --> 01:44:53.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I, I, I would say, uh, yeah, keep, uh, keep an eye on the numbers and everything going on where you are and be safe above all else.
[01:44:53.870 --> 01:44:58.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we will definitely still be doing the virtual, uh, component to the meeting this time around.
[01:44:59.270 --> 01:45:00.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, we'll see.
[01:45:00.590 --> 01:45:01.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'll, we'll go from there.
[01:45:01.810 --> 01:45:10.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, something else that's interesting though, completely unrelated, but right at the day after the 2600 meeting, which would be on January 7th, January 8th is WBAI's birthday.
[01:45:11.630 --> 01:45:14.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: It will be, it's 62nd birthday.
[01:45:14.350 --> 01:45:14.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[01:45:14.990 --> 01:45:15.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: How about that?
[01:45:15.630 --> 01:45:23.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: But now, you know, something else you said that just sort of touched, uh, January 7th is the day after the meeting, which means the meeting is on January 6th.
[01:45:24.190 --> 01:45:26.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: The January 7th is, is the Friday.
[01:45:26.250 --> 01:45:26.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's the meeting day.
[01:45:26.810 --> 01:45:26.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, okay.
[01:45:27.170 --> 01:45:27.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[01:45:27.530 --> 01:45:27.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thank God.
[01:45:27.950 --> 01:45:30.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just didn't want the meeting to be on January 6th.
[01:45:30.270 --> 01:45:30.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, no, no, no.
[01:45:30.990 --> 01:45:33.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: I know one year it will be, but not, not so soon.
[01:45:34.550 --> 01:45:35.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Everybody stay home that day.
[01:45:36.050 --> 01:45:36.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[01:45:36.390 --> 01:45:36.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: 23.
[01:45:36.870 --> 01:45:37.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: It will be.
[01:45:37.490 --> 01:45:38.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, thanks for you.
[01:45:38.490 --> 01:45:38.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:45:38.750 --> 01:45:39.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've got, I've got two years.
[01:45:40.210 --> 01:45:41.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: No one year.
[01:45:41.250 --> 01:45:41.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh my God.
[01:45:41.810 --> 01:45:42.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's coming up.
[01:45:43.970 --> 01:45:44.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[01:45:44.590 --> 01:45:46.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, caller, I hope things work out.
[01:45:46.190 --> 01:45:47.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks, uh, for updating us.
[01:45:48.870 --> 01:45:49.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you.
[01:45:49.810 --> 01:45:50.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: Please call back.
[01:45:50.730 --> 01:45:52.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, I'll touch bases with you.
[01:45:52.830 --> 01:45:53.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: When you know more.
[01:45:53.350 --> 01:45:54.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: At the next meeting on Zoom.
[01:45:54.850 --> 01:45:55.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, definitely.
[01:45:55.690 --> 01:45:56.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Fantastic.
[01:45:56.270 --> 01:45:56.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll see you there.
[01:45:57.630 --> 01:45:58.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye-bye.
[01:45:58.370 --> 01:45:58.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Have a great holiday.
[01:45:59.070 --> 01:45:59.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye.
[01:46:00.830 --> 01:46:05.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Our phone number, 802-321-4225-802-321-HECK.
[01:46:05.950 --> 01:46:07.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, I have a few minutes left.
[01:46:07.150 --> 01:46:09.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: If anybody else is out there, wants to, uh, say hi, uh,
[01:46:21.790 --> 01:46:22.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: we'd touch that thing.
[01:46:23.050 --> 01:46:25.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was, I was afraid we might get a squeal.
[01:46:25.450 --> 01:46:26.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: I keep leaning on this table.
[01:46:26.850 --> 01:46:28.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, when people hang up, sometimes you get a squeal.
[01:46:28.810 --> 01:46:30.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, but didn't do that.
[01:46:30.270 --> 01:46:31.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think it's low enough where it doesn't squeal.
[01:46:32.370 --> 01:46:33.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh yeah.
[01:46:33.050 --> 01:46:33.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:46:33.590 --> 01:46:33.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:46:33.810 --> 01:46:34.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Keep it there.
[01:46:34.370 --> 01:46:34.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's fine.
[01:46:34.990 --> 01:46:35.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can do that.
[01:46:36.110 --> 01:46:41.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think those, some of those channels are out of phase and they're like, you think they're competing with each other because what was your first clue?
[01:46:41.670 --> 01:46:53.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it's cause we're looping back to the people who are remote and it's not really the best, uh, um, it's not mixing them out when they, when they get something fed to them.
[01:46:53.530 --> 01:46:54.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, it's mixing all of us up.
[01:46:55.090 --> 01:46:57.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: I have no idea how any of it, it's just magic.
[01:46:57.830 --> 01:46:59.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's just a spaghetti of wires.
[01:46:59.410 --> 01:47:02.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then you went and added turntable channels on top of everything else.
[01:47:02.790 --> 01:47:03.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now we have turntables.
[01:47:04.030 --> 01:47:04.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: You don't like turntables?
[01:47:04.890 --> 01:47:10.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm just saying everything we add makes it more crazy and, and, and it's a combative board.
[01:47:10.830 --> 01:47:13.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: It, it tries to hurt us and, and, and distort our words.
[01:47:14.650 --> 01:47:15.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[01:47:15.190 --> 01:47:15.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: We could do some scratching.
[01:47:16.050 --> 01:47:17.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not disagreeing with that.
[01:47:17.190 --> 01:47:18.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: It may be conservative on the other show somehow.
[01:47:19.290 --> 01:47:20.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do they have two turntables?
[01:47:20.990 --> 01:47:21.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: And a microphone.
[01:47:22.450 --> 01:47:23.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, no.
[01:47:23.210 --> 01:47:31.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Most words I've been on were exactly... So, so it's, um, it's, uh, open phone line here, I think, um... Well, not anymore.
[01:47:32.090 --> 01:47:33.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, it's a busy phone line.
[01:47:34.130 --> 01:47:34.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:47:37.610 --> 01:47:39.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: 802-321-4225.
[01:47:39.250 --> 01:47:41.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: The phone is on the hook now, so you can call.
[01:47:41.570 --> 01:47:44.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, and, um, uh, maybe we can fix that ringer too.
[01:47:44.770 --> 01:47:46.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: So the phone sounds more like a phone.
[01:47:46.330 --> 01:47:51.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, this one, yeah, this, this phone's, um, it's, uh, being re, uh, rebuilt.
[01:47:52.090 --> 01:47:52.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:47:52.270 --> 01:47:53.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: It sounds like something someone stepped on.
[01:47:54.130 --> 01:47:54.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Rehabilitated.
[01:47:54.750 --> 01:48:01.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's, um, it, it came from a broken situation and... Is that my, that's my grandparents' old phone, isn't it?
[01:48:01.470 --> 01:48:03.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, did they live in the 212?
[01:48:04.170 --> 01:48:07.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, before it became 718 and the 784 exchange.
[01:48:07.810 --> 01:48:07.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:48:08.170 --> 01:48:09.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's, that's my grandparents' phone.
[01:48:09.990 --> 01:48:10.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is this?
[01:48:10.770 --> 01:48:11.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: That we're using right now.
[01:48:11.290 --> 01:48:13.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: You wanna look at the extension and make sure you don't have to read that.
[01:48:13.790 --> 01:48:13.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[01:48:13.890 --> 01:48:18.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, I have had, as a child, I would call that phone from my house and talk to my grandparents.
[01:48:18.630 --> 01:48:18.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:48:19.010 --> 01:48:22.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: How awesome is that, that we're using that particular, that's the sound, oh boy.
[01:48:23.570 --> 01:48:25.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of course, the bell did sound better back then.
[01:48:25.330 --> 01:48:26.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: We can, we can fix that.
[01:48:26.570 --> 01:48:29.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: I keep... Oh, there you go, there you go, there you go.
[01:48:30.010 --> 01:48:32.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: I had it, it's, I think that's the muted mode.
[01:48:33.470 --> 01:48:33.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[01:48:33.850 --> 01:48:34.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: What, what is it?
[01:48:34.970 --> 01:48:37.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: John, pick up the phone, is what my grandmother would say.
[01:48:37.490 --> 01:48:38.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll pick it up.
[01:48:38.190 --> 01:48:38.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hold on.
[01:48:41.470 --> 01:48:42.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wait, I hear a siren.
[01:48:42.950 --> 01:48:43.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you hear that?
[01:48:44.210 --> 01:48:44.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's ours.
[01:48:45.010 --> 01:48:45.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, okay.
[01:48:45.350 --> 01:48:46.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was wondering how the phone was generating a siren.
[01:48:47.170 --> 01:48:50.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Kyle, maybe you wanna pick up the phone so that we can talk to the person on the other I did.
[01:48:50.650 --> 01:48:51.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm holding the phone in my hand.
[01:48:51.790 --> 01:48:52.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, it's still ringing.
[01:48:52.450 --> 01:48:53.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: I heard it's still ringing.
[01:48:53.210 --> 01:48:54.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, oh, you wanna pick up the line.
[01:48:55.050 --> 01:48:59.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, that's what I mean by pick up, not physically pick up the phone, for God's sake.
[01:49:00.710 --> 01:49:02.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Did we lose the caller?
[01:49:02.190 --> 01:49:03.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, they stopped calling.
[01:49:03.250 --> 01:49:04.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was trying to mess with the phone.
[01:49:04.330 --> 01:49:06.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: They stopped calling because you made it ring 20 times.
[01:49:06.970 --> 01:49:07.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Pick up the phone.
[01:49:07.850 --> 01:49:11.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're the only person in the world, when you say pick up the phone, you literally pick up the phone.
[01:49:11.530 --> 01:49:15.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was messing with you, and I... And you wound up messing with some innocent person.
[01:49:15.950 --> 01:49:23.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I said that because I was trying to adjust the ringer, and that That required me to pick up the phone.
[01:49:23.210 --> 01:49:23.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Please call back.
[01:49:24.070 --> 01:49:24.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Does it feel good, Kyle?
[01:49:24.790 --> 01:49:28.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Does it feel good knowing that you changed somebody's plans for tonight?
[01:49:28.750 --> 01:49:29.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry.
[01:49:29.570 --> 01:49:34.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it's a good exercise for your dialing digits.
[01:49:34.530 --> 01:49:37.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe they were calling to say they were in trouble and that they needed help.
[01:49:37.670 --> 01:49:39.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we were the people who could help them.
[01:49:39.990 --> 01:49:40.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we're here for you.
[01:49:40.890 --> 01:49:41.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: We are here for you.
[01:49:41.950 --> 01:49:48.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll answer all your questions about telephones, about logs in Java.
[01:49:48.970 --> 01:49:52.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, all the operating systems.
[01:49:52.890 --> 01:49:56.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you have a mobile phone with a real-time operating system, let us know.
[01:49:57.150 --> 01:50:06.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you're upset at your microkernel and you're trying to negotiate with it, we can help you through that.
[01:50:06.890 --> 01:50:07.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're good counselors.
[01:50:11.430 --> 01:50:12.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: The phone is ringing again.
[01:50:13.750 --> 01:50:14.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hello.
[01:50:14.410 --> 01:50:16.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's coming from Vermont, actually.
[01:50:16.850 --> 01:50:17.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: IntelliCall Operator Services.
[01:50:17.850 --> 01:50:21.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: And this is Rebel, so you can just disconnect that right away.
[01:50:23.430 --> 01:50:24.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: That was me.
[01:50:24.510 --> 01:50:25.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, that was you.
[01:50:25.550 --> 01:50:28.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: That was me saying if you're upset with your microkernel.
[01:50:28.790 --> 01:50:31.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, someone just recorded the show, and I see.
[01:50:32.150 --> 01:50:33.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, well, or they're listening on a delay.
[01:50:33.810 --> 01:50:35.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rebel, you were on for 45 minutes.
[01:50:35.470 --> 01:50:36.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Please, don't call us now.
[01:50:37.030 --> 01:50:37.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks for that, though.
[01:50:37.730 --> 01:50:38.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Give someone else a chance.
[01:50:38.770 --> 01:50:40.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or they're listening on YouTube and they're just in the delay.
[01:50:41.570 --> 01:50:42.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's true.
[01:50:42.130 --> 01:50:45.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, 802-321-4225 is our telephone number.
[01:50:45.290 --> 01:50:48.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can call that direct, 802-321-HACK.
[01:50:48.970 --> 01:50:52.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we'll be on for another five minutes or so, after which time we will stop.
[01:50:53.850 --> 01:50:54.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[01:50:54.590 --> 01:50:58.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: While we're waiting, tell us a little bit more about this telephone, because the listeners can't see it.
[01:50:58.630 --> 01:51:00.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm looking at it, and it's very pretty.
[01:51:00.230 --> 01:51:00.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh.
[01:51:00.730 --> 01:51:01.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's beige.
[01:51:01.650 --> 01:51:02.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a rotary phone.
[01:51:02.770 --> 01:51:03.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is that a Western Electric?
[01:51:03.830 --> 01:51:04.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:51:04.250 --> 01:51:05.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of course it's a Western Electric.
[01:51:05.610 --> 01:51:09.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is a 1976 500 DM.
[01:51:10.250 --> 01:51:12.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if you can see a year on it anywhere.
[01:51:12.370 --> 01:51:12.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:51:12.610 --> 01:51:14.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: It says 1176.
[01:51:14.530 --> 01:51:14.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: 1976.
[01:51:15.390 --> 01:51:15.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually...
[01:51:15.710 --> 01:51:16.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm assuming that's the year.
[01:51:16.650 --> 01:51:19.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, maybe that was one of the newer phones that they got.
[01:51:20.590 --> 01:51:22.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bell System Property, right?
[01:51:22.130 --> 01:51:23.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Was it still property then?
[01:51:23.370 --> 01:51:23.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-oh.
[01:51:23.710 --> 01:51:23.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Really?
[01:51:24.950 --> 01:51:26.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, it might say that.
[01:51:26.950 --> 01:51:28.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know how much is owed on this, then?
[01:51:28.850 --> 01:51:30.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: If it's a monthly lease?
[01:51:32.110 --> 01:51:32.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:51:32.630 --> 01:51:34.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'm not responsible for it, okay?
[01:51:34.790 --> 01:51:35.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just...
[01:51:35.270 --> 01:51:36.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was in a box, and I took it.
[01:51:36.850 --> 01:51:39.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's got some broken parts.
[01:51:39.370 --> 01:51:40.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: I put a really long cable...
[01:51:40.870 --> 01:51:42.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's modular, so yeah, that's a newer phone.
[01:51:43.070 --> 01:51:44.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it didn't have a handset.
[01:51:44.910 --> 01:51:49.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: I found a handset that sounds all right, and then the corded modular...
[01:51:49.570 --> 01:52:06.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: I fixed the terminations on the handset cord, but the part of that that connects to the side of the phone is a little broken, so it's a little wobbly, and it needed a little care, and that's why the ring was off.
[01:52:06.390 --> 01:52:07.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do we want to speak to Bobson?
[01:52:07.830 --> 01:52:08.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hello.
[01:52:08.210 --> 01:52:08.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: From Bulgaria?
[01:52:09.010 --> 01:52:10.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bobson, come in.
[01:52:10.430 --> 01:52:11.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening, caller time.
[01:52:11.890 --> 01:52:12.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: How you doing, Bobson?
[01:52:12.990 --> 01:52:13.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good to hear you.
[01:52:16.210 --> 01:52:16.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Pardon?
[01:52:17.530 --> 01:52:18.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good to hear you.
[01:52:20.290 --> 01:52:21.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're exchanging pleasantries.
[01:52:24.790 --> 01:52:33.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: I was going to tell Alex that I managed to get a bottle of clasp.
[01:52:35.750 --> 01:52:37.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you're not going to do that anymore?
[01:52:38.870 --> 01:52:40.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: You were going to tell him.
[01:52:43.140 --> 01:52:44.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why not just tell him?
[01:52:44.280 --> 01:52:44.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:52:45.920 --> 01:52:49.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: We were talking about it earlier, in earlier weeks.
[01:52:49.840 --> 01:52:50.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[01:52:50.800 --> 01:52:52.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: So did you try it, Bobson?
[01:52:52.800 --> 01:52:56.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm so curious as to your observations.
[01:52:57.320 --> 01:52:59.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I tried some of it.
[01:52:59.880 --> 01:53:12.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not, it's, to me, it tastes like a beer that was unsuccessful or something like that.
[01:53:12.900 --> 01:53:14.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's made you all hyper, too.
[01:53:14.320 --> 01:53:15.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, wow.
[01:53:15.180 --> 01:53:16.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can see the difference.
[01:53:18.060 --> 01:53:18.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:53:19.720 --> 01:53:27.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Being that it's a fermented beverage, so, yeah, I imagine it's, like, partially fermented because there's no alcohol.
[01:53:27.820 --> 01:53:29.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is that correct, Alex, or Bobson?
[01:53:29.600 --> 01:53:29.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[01:53:30.580 --> 01:53:33.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, there's apparently low levels of alcohol.
[01:53:34.080 --> 01:53:34.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Got it.
[01:53:35.500 --> 01:53:39.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: That are too low to be considered beer.
[01:53:39.220 --> 01:53:48.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's something around in Europe that's called small beer, which is beer with low levels of alcohol.
[01:53:49.760 --> 01:53:50.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Kinder beer.
[01:53:51.320 --> 01:53:52.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, like ciders.
[01:53:53.120 --> 01:53:53.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yep.
[01:53:54.080 --> 01:53:55.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yep, low alcohol, very, very low alcohol.
[01:53:55.760 --> 01:53:57.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think it's getting more popular.
[01:53:57.180 --> 01:54:01.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: People have been, and a lot of the hard seltzers out there, but there are, it's true.
[01:54:02.040 --> 01:54:05.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, there's so many types of brewed beverages.
[01:54:05.160 --> 01:54:12.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm thinking birch beer and root beer and all of those kinds of low or non-alcoholic, but they seem to be popular.
[01:54:12.140 --> 01:54:14.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: So this is a good test.
[01:54:14.860 --> 01:54:16.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, Alex, you tried this, right?
[01:54:16.500 --> 01:54:17.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: You had some.
[01:54:17.620 --> 01:54:18.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what you...
[01:54:18.160 --> 01:54:18.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: I did.
[01:54:18.600 --> 01:54:21.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: I got it at the Bulgarian grocery store.
[01:54:21.740 --> 01:54:22.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Did you enjoy it?
[01:54:23.000 --> 01:54:25.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Here in northeastern Pennsylvania in the Poconos.
[01:54:25.680 --> 01:54:26.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you found it palatable?
[01:54:27.860 --> 01:54:29.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, it was pretty terrible.
[01:54:30.860 --> 01:54:34.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: I thought, you know, it just certainly did not agree with my palate.
[01:54:34.800 --> 01:54:38.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: I could not drink more than a tiny bit of it at a time.
[01:54:38.260 --> 01:54:53.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: But apparently in the Soviet Union, this was more popular than water because, you know, where water wasn't readily available or it wasn't clean because this drink was fermented, it killed off a lot of the bacteria in it.
[01:54:54.060 --> 01:54:55.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: And people would just drink this rather than water.
[01:54:56.120 --> 01:55:06.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, you would have the, you know, the kvass truck coming around rather than the ice cream truck on a hot day, which just seems so bizarre to me because you've got to be...
[01:55:06.940 --> 01:55:09.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: you've got to have some sort of fortitude to get this stuff down.
[01:55:10.220 --> 01:55:11.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: It doesn't seem like the kind of stuff that a kid...
[01:55:11.840 --> 01:55:13.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Was there really a kvass truck?
[01:55:13.980 --> 01:55:15.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Was there really a kvass truck that's a thing?
[01:55:16.200 --> 01:55:17.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or are you making that up?
[01:55:17.920 --> 01:55:18.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, it was.
[01:55:18.860 --> 01:55:19.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was a thing.
[01:55:19.480 --> 01:55:20.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: I looked this up.
[01:55:20.540 --> 01:55:23.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: There was a kvass truck that would come around.
[01:55:23.480 --> 01:55:27.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: But what's weird is that, you know, it's made from, I believe it's rye bread.
[01:55:27.200 --> 01:55:34.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, Bob said, I'm curious, you know, did you get that taste, that sort of overpowering, you know, almost moldy bread taste?
[01:55:37.540 --> 01:55:44.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, to me, as I said, it tasted as a beer that was unsuccessful or something like that.
[01:55:44.140 --> 01:55:58.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, more than that, I cannot say that I managed to get any bread, paste, or anything like that.
[01:55:58.780 --> 01:56:00.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: It might go well with some other stuff, too.
[01:56:01.000 --> 01:56:11.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: I can imagine y'all testing it in one mode is a lot different than having it alongside, you know, some other things to eat or drink and a meal or something like that.
[01:56:11.020 --> 01:56:22.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: The bottle I got said that it was made in a monastery somewhere where in Soviet times they prevented them.
[01:56:22.460 --> 01:56:31.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then, in recent years, the folks at the monastery found the recipe and started doing it again or something like that.
[01:56:31.320 --> 01:56:31.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Of course.
[01:56:31.920 --> 01:56:32.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sure, sure.
[01:56:32.640 --> 01:56:33.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: What a great story.
[01:56:34.220 --> 01:56:36.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's innovation, though.
[01:56:36.020 --> 01:56:45.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, like, bringing something and it's almost like a time capsule, that knowledge, and then sharing it in the present day.
[01:56:45.880 --> 01:56:50.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, the other question I have for you, Buffson, is where did you find the kvass?
[01:56:50.480 --> 01:56:52.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: Was it in a normal grocery store?
[01:56:52.480 --> 01:56:54.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: Was it in a specialty grocery store?
[01:56:54.640 --> 01:56:56.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or did you have to buy this on the black market?
[01:56:56.920 --> 01:56:58.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it was already in your refrigerator.
[01:56:58.020 --> 01:57:18.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's this chain of stores that specializes in Russian groceries and such, which is a chain that's based in Germany, as far as I know.
[01:57:18.100 --> 01:57:27.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: And for other things that I've bought from there, they were made in Germany, some of them.
[01:57:27.920 --> 01:57:30.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, it's kind of weird.
[01:57:30.920 --> 01:57:34.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: But this was imported from Russia somewhere.
[01:57:36.000 --> 01:57:37.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, it's...
[01:57:41.250 --> 01:57:49.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: Basically, there's a chain of store called Birch in Russian that is...
[01:57:51.650 --> 01:57:55.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: spread around Europe, based in Germany, or something like that.
[01:57:56.610 --> 01:57:57.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah.
[01:57:58.850 --> 01:58:00.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's the place I found.
[01:58:00.210 --> 01:58:01.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, what was the color?
[01:58:01.290 --> 01:58:04.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: What was the hue of the kvass that you have?
[01:58:05.050 --> 01:58:06.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Was it like a very dark brown?
[01:58:06.970 --> 01:58:07.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Was it a light brown?
[01:58:07.950 --> 01:58:08.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alex, I gotta ask.
[01:58:08.810 --> 01:58:10.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why are you so fascinated with this?
[01:58:11.390 --> 01:58:14.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: You've been interrogating him like some kind of witness at a trial.
[01:58:15.190 --> 01:58:17.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's kvass.
[01:58:17.350 --> 01:58:19.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, the fact that the both of you had it, that's miracle enough for me.
[01:58:20.110 --> 01:58:20.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, okay, fine.
[01:58:20.830 --> 01:58:21.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: What color?
[01:58:21.550 --> 01:58:23.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Tell us everything about it, Bobson.
[01:58:23.490 --> 01:58:31.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: The color of the one I got was dark brown, like a stout-type brown, or maybe darker.
[01:58:33.670 --> 01:58:41.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: They had a bottle of something much paler than that, which I decided not to go for.
[01:58:42.590 --> 01:58:44.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I think that was smart, yeah.
[01:58:45.010 --> 01:58:48.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: And when you poured it out, did the drink have a head on it?
[01:58:49.850 --> 01:58:51.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, like a foam on the top?
[01:58:52.530 --> 01:58:54.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's like...
[01:58:55.490 --> 01:58:56.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Like a beer?
[01:58:58.070 --> 01:59:00.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: Like a stout wood, I guess.
[01:59:00.990 --> 01:59:04.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: Some bubbly stuff on it.
[01:59:06.970 --> 01:59:09.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's really, I think it's quite interesting.
[01:59:09.790 --> 01:59:14.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: And how much carbonation do you think was in it relative, let's say, to Coke or Pepsi?
[01:59:14.730 --> 01:59:15.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Objection.
[01:59:15.290 --> 01:59:16.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: This has been asked and answered.
[01:59:16.790 --> 01:59:17.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Much less.
[01:59:17.370 --> 01:59:17.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Your Honor.
[01:59:19.050 --> 01:59:20.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: He's leading the witness.
[01:59:20.370 --> 01:59:21.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: He's leading the witness.
[01:59:21.450 --> 01:59:22.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Leading the witness off a cliff.
[01:59:23.370 --> 01:59:24.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, withdrawn.
[01:59:24.350 --> 01:59:24.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Withdrawn.
[01:59:25.170 --> 01:59:25.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, yeah.
[01:59:26.530 --> 01:59:26.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:59:26.630 --> 01:59:27.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, right, withdrawn.
[01:59:27.850 --> 01:59:29.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: You'd better withdraw it.
[01:59:31.130 --> 01:59:31.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Interesting.
[01:59:31.570 --> 01:59:33.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, what about the price?
[01:59:33.510 --> 01:59:37.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Was it something that comes cheaply in Bulgaria, even though it's imported?
[01:59:37.690 --> 01:59:38.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Calls for speculation.
[01:59:38.990 --> 01:59:41.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or is it more expensive than, let's say, a bottle of Coke?
[01:59:42.870 --> 01:59:46.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, compared to Coca-Cola, I think it's cheaper, yes.
[01:59:48.670 --> 01:59:49.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Interesting.
[01:59:50.090 --> 01:59:53.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: So do you think they're trying to undercut Coca-Cola and Pepsi there?
[01:59:53.650 --> 01:59:55.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: And take over the market once again?
[01:59:56.010 --> 01:59:56.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Objection.
[01:59:56.530 --> 01:59:57.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Calls for speculation.
[01:59:58.450 --> 01:59:59.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's a good objection there.
[02:00:00.030 --> 02:00:00.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's absolutely right.
[02:00:00.870 --> 02:00:07.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not sure what Coca-Cola costs around here, because I don't buy this stuff.
[02:00:07.670 --> 02:00:08.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good answer.
[02:00:11.650 --> 02:00:16.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is there anything else you'd like to describe about the kvass?
[02:00:16.350 --> 02:00:17.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: And remember, you're under oath.
[02:00:19.870 --> 02:00:30.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I read about what Belgians call small beer, which sounds reasonably close to it.
[02:00:30.070 --> 02:00:40.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: It seems, but which is a beer of low content of alcohol, which is sold around Europe, some places.
[02:00:40.710 --> 02:00:42.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I haven't tried it yet.
[02:00:44.730 --> 02:00:47.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: So that's my impression of it.
[02:00:49.330 --> 02:00:59.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, now that we've gone through the kvass item, there are so many other items in the supermarket that I think that we can address on a weekly basis here.
[02:01:00.070 --> 02:01:07.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Any suggestions for things that I should be on the lookout for that are particularly tasty in my local Bulgarian market?
[02:01:10.490 --> 02:01:20.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, the thing I want to recommend, I don't know if it travels well or if they brew it over there, but it's a bit...
[02:01:21.830 --> 02:01:25.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's very easy to get it wrong somehow.
[02:01:26.890 --> 02:01:42.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a millet-based beverage, which is called boza, and it's much thicker than the kvass in many ways.
[02:01:42.310 --> 02:02:00.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it used to be the beverage that the Ottoman army used to give, a kilogram of it per day to their low-ranking army feed people.
[02:02:00.170 --> 02:02:14.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, and it was enough to feed them and keep them hydrated for a day or so while they were doing their army duties.
[02:02:14.830 --> 02:02:18.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's a very nutritional thing.
[02:02:20.010 --> 02:02:24.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: And this is what you would describe, this kind of gruel?
[02:02:27.090 --> 02:02:39.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah, but as I said, there's many ways to do it wrong, and a few people nowadays are doing it right that I know of.
[02:02:40.110 --> 02:02:42.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: What should I be asking for again?
[02:02:42.210 --> 02:02:43.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Remind me of the name.
[02:02:44.690 --> 02:02:45.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: Boza.
[02:02:47.050 --> 02:02:47.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Boza.
[02:02:49.290 --> 02:02:49.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[02:02:50.950 --> 02:02:51.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Excellent.
[02:02:51.770 --> 02:02:53.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Does that translate to anything in English?
[02:02:55.150 --> 02:02:56.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't think it does.
[02:02:59.290 --> 02:02:59.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Excellent.
[02:02:59.950 --> 02:03:04.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: I hope this isn't some kind of horrible phrase that I'm going to be asking for.
[02:03:04.690 --> 02:03:08.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Run into your local Bulgarian supermarket and yell boza and see what happens.
[02:03:08.290 --> 02:03:08.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[02:03:08.530 --> 02:03:09.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you got a shopping list?
[02:03:09.910 --> 02:03:09.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Exactly.
[02:03:10.210 --> 02:03:10.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[02:03:11.930 --> 02:03:12.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: I will see.
[02:03:13.070 --> 02:03:13.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[02:03:14.190 --> 02:03:15.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, excellent.
[02:03:15.270 --> 02:03:16.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm going to look for this.
[02:03:17.470 --> 02:03:23.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: It sounds like it might be difficult to find, but I'm going to give it my level best.
[02:03:23.310 --> 02:03:27.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I promise to report back fully next week.
[02:03:28.050 --> 02:03:28.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, joy.
[02:03:28.650 --> 02:03:30.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: I look forward to this with bated breath.
[02:03:31.450 --> 02:03:34.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Bobson, anything else from you before we sign off for tonight?
[02:03:34.590 --> 02:03:36.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, 5G, landlines, whatever you got.
[02:03:36.610 --> 02:03:37.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, anything.
[02:03:40.230 --> 02:03:58.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I was not awake during the radio show, so I have to listen up on the archives, because so I may not be up to speed to know the themes that you've covered.
[02:04:00.530 --> 02:04:03.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: So what can I say about landlines?
[02:04:03.630 --> 02:04:09.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: They are trying to get rid of them around here for whatever reason, but well...
[02:04:11.920 --> 02:04:13.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, think about it.
[02:04:13.320 --> 02:04:14.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, when they get...
[02:04:14.780 --> 02:04:21.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: For those paranoid people out there, who may not be so paranoid, if you're just on wireless, they can just turn those off.
[02:04:21.700 --> 02:04:22.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anytime.
[02:04:22.180 --> 02:04:22.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anytime.
[02:04:22.540 --> 02:04:24.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then all of a sudden, nobody can communicate anymore.
[02:04:24.840 --> 02:04:25.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Think about that.
[02:04:25.960 --> 02:04:28.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: There, I just won over all the conspiracy people.
[02:04:28.720 --> 02:04:28.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay?
[02:04:29.520 --> 02:04:31.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: So we'll save landlines for sure now.
[02:04:34.120 --> 02:04:40.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm using one at present, so I'm not...
[02:04:41.180 --> 02:04:42.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: I have...
[02:04:42.020 --> 02:04:42.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: That sounds good.
[02:04:42.920 --> 02:04:46.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: I intend to keep it for as long as I can, but so well.
[02:04:46.300 --> 02:04:49.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: I just think, build networks, everyone.
[02:04:49.300 --> 02:04:50.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, it's...
[02:04:50.860 --> 02:05:03.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Whatever type you want to settle on, but absolutely, realize that it's not just a company, not just for others to be building the networks that you're using.
[02:05:03.580 --> 02:05:13.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're all capable of designing and managing our online lives, our communication modes.
[02:05:13.780 --> 02:05:16.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: We already do to an extent, but I think...
[02:05:16.580 --> 02:05:25.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm just so hearing in this that people have a hunger for having more control over these things.
[02:05:25.840 --> 02:05:27.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, like, you're exactly right, Emmanuel.
[02:05:27.360 --> 02:05:44.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, every mobile phone is attributed to a specific person with all these sensors and ability to attribute your every move, your every utterance to this subscriber account, whereas the older systems, you could share.
[02:05:44.600 --> 02:05:45.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: You could share a payphone.
[02:05:46.040 --> 02:05:46.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: You could share...
[02:05:46.700 --> 02:05:57.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: This beige telephone on the desk here that used to belong to my grandparents never ratted them out, never said where they were, what they were doing, what films they liked, anything like that.
[02:05:57.020 --> 02:05:58.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: It just was a phone.
[02:05:58.820 --> 02:05:59.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just was a phone.
[02:05:59.860 --> 02:06:01.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: And a damn good one, too, I might add.
[02:06:01.340 --> 02:06:09.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and we're being sort of lulled and falling into the sort of romance of all these modern features.
[02:06:14.500 --> 02:06:19.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, Bobson, thanks for calling, and have a good night there in Bulgaria.
[02:06:19.840 --> 02:06:22.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Merry Christmas, if you celebrate it, and Happy New Year, regardless.
[02:06:23.360 --> 02:06:24.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we do, yes.
[02:06:24.840 --> 02:06:25.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Another week before New Year's.
[02:06:27.740 --> 02:06:31.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, it's gonna be a few more days, yes.
[02:06:32.560 --> 02:06:33.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[02:06:34.130 --> 02:06:35.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, good hearing from you, as always.
[02:06:35.860 --> 02:06:39.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: Happy holidays, everybody, and thanks for the show.
[02:06:41.020 --> 02:06:43.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, thanks for staying up, and keep listening.
[02:06:43.380 --> 02:06:45.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll look forward to hearing from you next year.
[02:06:46.240 --> 02:06:46.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[02:06:46.800 --> 02:06:48.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, next week won't be next year, yet.
[02:06:49.170 --> 02:06:51.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you can, I guess, call back next week, too, but...
[02:06:51.680 --> 02:06:52.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, call back next week.
[02:06:52.660 --> 02:06:53.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's how it works.
[02:06:53.220 --> 02:06:55.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: If we don't hear from you, it'll be next year.
[02:06:56.420 --> 02:06:57.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's true.
[02:06:57.980 --> 02:06:58.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, well.
[02:07:00.830 --> 02:07:01.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, good night.
[02:07:01.840 --> 02:07:03.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can't promise anything, but, yeah.
[02:07:04.980 --> 02:07:05.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, we'll...
[02:07:05.620 --> 02:07:06.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Try and keep in touch.
[02:07:07.500 --> 02:07:08.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll look forward to it.
[02:07:08.460 --> 02:07:09.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, great to hear you.
[02:07:11.140 --> 02:07:11.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, Paul.
[02:07:11.900 --> 02:07:12.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Take it easy.
[02:07:12.620 --> 02:07:15.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Did you see, during that call, we were getting other calls from the operator?
[02:07:15.860 --> 02:07:16.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[02:07:16.020 --> 02:07:16.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: We got a call from zero.
[02:07:17.180 --> 02:07:17.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, zero.
[02:07:17.880 --> 02:07:18.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: One digit.
[02:07:19.210 --> 02:07:19.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Probably Rebel.
[02:07:19.960 --> 02:07:20.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Somebody figured out how to do it.
[02:07:21.060 --> 02:07:21.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, funny.
[02:07:21.700 --> 02:07:23.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Very funny, but we're not gonna pick that up.
[02:07:23.300 --> 02:07:24.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're not picking up any more phone calls.
[02:07:24.600 --> 02:07:25.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're done.
[02:07:25.360 --> 02:07:25.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, we are?
[02:07:25.780 --> 02:07:27.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's...
[02:07:27.080 --> 02:07:28.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: We've been on an hour and 12 minutes.
[02:07:29.120 --> 02:07:29.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[02:07:30.120 --> 02:07:30.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: On overtime.
[02:07:30.620 --> 02:07:32.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll just disconnect this.
[02:07:32.460 --> 02:07:32.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Disconnect that.
[02:07:33.820 --> 02:07:36.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we're gonna disconnect everything in just a second.
[02:07:36.880 --> 02:07:40.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's say our final goodnights and invite people to write to us.
[02:07:40.860 --> 02:07:42.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: oth@2600.com.
[02:07:43.200 --> 02:07:46.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: And to enjoy this time of year.