[00:28.360 --> 00:28.860] [EVILCORLEY]: Hello.
[00:30.320 --> 00:33.700] [EVILCORLEY]: You're listening to WBAI in New York.
[00:34.700 --> 00:38.380] [EVILCORLEY]: It's 6:59, soon to be 7 o'clock.
[00:39.220 --> 00:43.180] [EVILCORLEY]: And that means it's time for another edition of Off The Hook.
[02:34.110 --> 02:35.570] [EVILCORLEY]: All right, here we are.
[02:36.490 --> 02:43.010] [EVILCORLEY]: It's another edition of Off The Hook here on WBAI.
[02:43.470 --> 02:44.710] [EVILCORLEY]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
[02:47.130 --> 02:47.830] [EVILCORLEY]: Hi, Kyle.
[02:48.050 --> 02:49.390] [EVILCORLEY]: What are you trying to tell me with your hands?
[02:50.250 --> 02:50.790] [KYLEDROSDK]: Oh, no.
[02:50.910 --> 02:53.030] [KYLEDROSDK]: I was just going to say this can go down.
[02:53.350 --> 02:54.170] [EVILCORLEY]: What can go down?
[02:54.370 --> 02:55.350] [EVILCORLEY]: The thing that's not up?
[02:55.450 --> 02:56.190] [KYLEDROSDK]: The levels, yeah.
[02:56.430 --> 02:58.270] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, but it's not on, so it doesn't make a difference.
[02:59.510 --> 02:59.850] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:59.850 --> 03:02.490] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm just going to reach over here and hit that dial there.
[03:02.610 --> 03:03.470] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, that's better for me.
[03:04.250 --> 03:06.530] [EVILCORLEY]: This is Emmanuel over on this side of the room.
[03:06.670 --> 03:07.850] [EVILCORLEY]: Kyle's on that side of the room.
[03:07.990 --> 03:10.430] [EVILCORLEY]: We have Alex over in Skype-land, I believe.
[03:11.330 --> 03:12.130] [ALEXURBELS]: That is correct.
[03:12.330 --> 03:13.050] [ALEXURBELS]: Good evening, everybody.
[03:14.390 --> 03:15.230] [EVILCORLEY]: That's your opinion.
[03:15.510 --> 03:16.190] [EVILCORLEY]: That's your opinion.
[03:16.330 --> 03:16.850] [EVILCORLEY]: That's a good evening.
[03:17.550 --> 03:19.050] [EVILCORLEY]: Some of us, it's not that good an evening.
[03:19.390 --> 03:21.990] [EVILCORLEY]: It's been a hell week, actually.
[03:23.150 --> 03:23.990] [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, boy.
[03:24.290 --> 03:30.670] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, we spent more than two years avoiding COVID.
[03:31.250 --> 03:35.090] [EVILCORLEY]: And it snuck up on us, snuck up on me last week.
[03:37.290 --> 03:38.310] [EVILCORLEY]: It was Thursday.
[03:38.570 --> 03:39.950] [EVILCORLEY]: Thursday that I tested positive.
[03:40.610 --> 03:43.650] [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, we've been so careful.
[03:43.870 --> 03:52.590] [EVILCORLEY]: We've been so incredibly careful not going into places with big crowds and, you know, taking precautions wherever possible.
[03:53.190 --> 03:55.110] [EVILCORLEY]: And it just takes one instance.
[03:55.210 --> 03:55.890] [EVILCORLEY]: We always knew that.
[03:56.070 --> 03:59.290] [EVILCORLEY]: And apparently that happened at some point.
[03:59.290 --> 04:02.370] [EVILCORLEY]: So I've been in isolation for the last five days.
[04:02.530 --> 04:04.370] [EVILCORLEY]: And I got to tell you, that messes with your head.
[04:04.790 --> 04:06.290] [KYLEDROSDK]: You mean incubation?
[04:07.470 --> 04:08.670] [EVILCORLEY]: Whatever you want to call it.
[04:09.270 --> 04:10.030] [EVILCORLEY]: Basically, okay.
[04:10.130 --> 04:13.050] [EVILCORLEY]: So what happened was Kyle didn't...
[04:13.050 --> 04:13.790] [EVILCORLEY]: He tested negative.
[04:13.790 --> 04:14.670] [EVILCORLEY]: I tested positive.
[04:14.670 --> 04:23.570] [EVILCORLEY]: So immediately, we erected a wall so that I was in one section and he was basically in the world.
[04:25.530 --> 04:30.390] [EVILCORLEY]: And that's how I lived my life for five days until we tested again earlier today.
[04:30.990 --> 04:32.350] [EVILCORLEY]: And we're both positive.
[04:32.350 --> 04:35.430] [EVILCORLEY]: So we don't have to isolate myself anymore.
[04:36.190 --> 04:39.590] [EVILCORLEY]: But we do have to stay away from other people as much as possible.
[04:40.170 --> 04:42.010] [KYLEDROSDK]: Oh, that'll be a big adjustment.
[04:42.310 --> 04:43.350] [EVILCORLEY]: It all works out, right?
[04:43.350 --> 04:48.750] [EVILCORLEY]: So, Alex, you've been through this at least once that you know of.
[04:49.350 --> 04:50.550] [EVILCORLEY]: Fun times, huh?
[04:51.650 --> 04:52.010] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[04:52.310 --> 04:55.950] [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, I think I was positive back in March of 2020.
[04:55.950 --> 04:58.630] [ALEXURBELS]: And then again in March of 2022.
[04:58.930 --> 05:00.030] [ALEXURBELS]: Two-year span.
[05:00.510 --> 05:01.750] [ALEXURBELS]: Triple vaxxed.
[05:02.110 --> 05:04.050] [ALEXURBELS]: And it wasn't pleasant.
[05:04.050 --> 05:10.890] [ALEXURBELS]: But I have to say, I was able to continue to function in my everyday life.
[05:11.050 --> 05:13.230] [ALEXURBELS]: I was continuing to go to work.
[05:13.350 --> 05:16.270] [ALEXURBELS]: And work 10-plus-hour days every day.
[05:16.490 --> 05:19.310] [ALEXURBELS]: Actually, I think the entire week I was working 12-plus-hour days.
[05:19.570 --> 05:22.870] [ALEXURBELS]: And when I came home, I thought I was just exhausted from work.
[05:22.870 --> 05:26.930] [ALEXURBELS]: But it turned out that I had asymptomatic COVID as well.
[05:27.210 --> 05:29.530] [KYLEDROSDK]: I think that's where I'm at.
[05:29.970 --> 05:30.450] [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[05:30.450 --> 05:37.570] [KYLEDROSDK]: It's just like, on top of work and other things in your life, now this.
[05:37.570 --> 05:40.230] [KYLEDROSDK]: It's just like a slap in the face.
[05:40.450 --> 05:45.510] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I've been logging my progress through various days.
[05:45.630 --> 05:49.310] [EVILCORLEY]: And today, I thought today I was pretty much past it.
[05:49.310 --> 05:51.690] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, I woke up feeling somewhat good.
[05:52.570 --> 05:54.730] [EVILCORLEY]: But after a few hours, you get drained.
[05:55.010 --> 05:56.370] [EVILCORLEY]: And you lose energy.
[05:56.430 --> 05:58.570] [EVILCORLEY]: And that's kind of why I sound the way I sound now.
[06:01.170 --> 06:05.990] [EVILCORLEY]: It's definitely something you don't want to have.
[06:05.990 --> 06:07.130] [EVILCORLEY]: You want to try to avoid this.
[06:07.130 --> 06:22.330] [EVILCORLEY]: It annoys me so much to see people not taking it seriously still, with almost a million people dead, for people to basically be fixated on whether or not we should be wearing masks on airplanes and things like that.
[06:23.090 --> 06:24.770] [EVILCORLEY]: Alex, maybe you can explain this to me.
[06:24.770 --> 06:43.350] [EVILCORLEY]: This crazy legal system of ours, where a Trump-appointed judge in Florida, who has been rated by the American Bar Association as unqualified, she gets to override the Centers for Disease Control on the issue of diseases.
[06:43.770 --> 06:44.650] [EVILCORLEY]: You know?
[06:44.970 --> 06:52.970] [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, she's not qualified to be a justice, let alone a spokesperson for anything having to do with science.
[06:53.270 --> 06:54.650] [EVILCORLEY]: How is this possible?
[06:54.770 --> 06:59.310] [EVILCORLEY]: How does it land in this person's control?
[07:00.150 --> 07:01.950] [EVILCORLEY]: Who gets that decision?
[07:02.250 --> 07:10.190] [EVILCORLEY]: Who gets to decide, this is the judge that's going to decide for everybody in the country how they're going to live their lives?
[07:10.830 --> 07:19.110] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, the plaintiffs in that case certainly lucked out when they rolled the dice and drew that judge.
[07:19.970 --> 07:32.910] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, as it was reported during her confirmation process and recently, too, in a lot of the news articles, I think she was 33 years old when Trump appointed her to the federal bench, which was two years ago.
[07:32.910 --> 07:43.170] [ALEXURBELS]: And I also believed that she had never been lead trial counsel on any trial, which is what federal district court judges do.
[07:43.170 --> 07:46.950] [ALEXURBELS]: So, you know, putting that aside for the moment, it's really, it's a lottery.
[07:47.110 --> 07:56.350] [ALEXURBELS]: Anytime you file a civil case or there's a criminal case in any federal court, it's a lottery to draw the judge.
[07:56.350 --> 07:58.010] [ALEXURBELS]: You don't get to pick and choose, of course.
[07:58.010 --> 07:58.030] [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[07:58.050 --> 07:59.630] [EVILCORLEY]: Let me just ask you about that, then.
[07:59.630 --> 08:01.490] [EVILCORLEY]: How does this lottery work exactly?
[08:01.970 --> 08:03.310] [EVILCORLEY]: Is it rolling the dice?
[08:03.470 --> 08:06.670] [EVILCORLEY]: Is it some kind of a pick four number or something?
[08:06.810 --> 08:07.630] [EVILCORLEY]: How does it work?
[08:08.410 --> 08:10.630] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, all the judges gather in a room.
[08:10.910 --> 08:11.930] [ALEXURBELS]: All the judges.
[08:12.930 --> 08:13.590] [EVILCORLEY]: How many?
[08:13.650 --> 08:13.750] [EVILCORLEY]: Wait.
[08:13.890 --> 08:15.110] [EVILCORLEY]: All the judges from where?
[08:15.730 --> 08:17.170] [ALEXURBELS]: From the whole court.
[08:17.430 --> 08:22.070] [ALEXURBELS]: They all gather in one room and they play rock, paper, scissors, or they draw short straws.
[08:23.030 --> 08:25.770] [EVILCORLEY]: See, I'm in a state now where I don't know if you're kidding.
[08:25.970 --> 08:26.350] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[08:26.670 --> 08:27.990] [EVILCORLEY]: So don't take advantage of me.
[08:28.630 --> 08:29.110] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[08:29.630 --> 08:40.030] [ALEXURBELS]: No, I think it differs from court to court, but I think in some courts it might actually be some kind of lottery or ball system that has a judge's name on it.
[08:40.130 --> 08:43.490] [EVILCORLEY]: But this was already in Florida, so right away you have a disadvantage.
[08:43.810 --> 08:44.970] [EVILCORLEY]: How did it wind up in Florida?
[08:45.790 --> 08:51.170] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, that's probably where the plaintiffs filed the case, you know, because they were in a grieve party.
[08:51.550 --> 08:57.570] [ALEXURBELS]: I'm sure the plaintiff resides in Florida and they're the grieve party, so they chose the venue.
[08:57.570 --> 09:02.450] [ALEXURBELS]: They're probably claiming some kind of interest because of the CDC overstepping its boundaries.
[09:02.730 --> 09:16.950] [EVILCORLEY]: So if you're somebody who disagrees with policy, all you have to do is make sure you go to the most backwards state possible with the most conservative views imaginable and file your lawsuit there.
[09:16.950 --> 09:22.770] [EVILCORLEY]: And odds are you'll get a judge that's more aligned with your views than somebody up in Yankee country.
[09:23.770 --> 09:27.730] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, yeah, I mean, that's called forum shopping and plaintiffs do that all the time.
[09:27.730 --> 09:30.950] [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, and for good reasons and for bad reasons, right?
[09:31.070 --> 09:40.550] [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, this is why, and I think it's the Western District of Texas, that court has the most patent filings of any court in the country.
[09:40.710 --> 09:49.210] [ALEXURBELS]: And it's been that way for a good number of years because of the types of jury verdicts and the familiarity that the judges have in that district in Texas.
[09:50.130 --> 10:04.850] [ALEXURBELS]: The Third Circuit and the federal district courts underneath the Third Circuit in Pennsylvania also used to be really popular venues for the ACLU to challenge certain provisions and things that they believe are unconstitutional.
[10:05.330 --> 10:13.130] [ALEXURBELS]: The Ninth Circuit is a place that's very popular for constitutional challenges as well from, you know, liberal plaintiffs.
[10:13.450 --> 10:16.770] [ALEXURBELS]: So, you know, yeah, forum shopping happens all the time.
[10:16.970 --> 10:22.690] [ALEXURBELS]: Doesn't shock me at all that the plaintiffs here went forum shopping in none other than Florida.
[10:22.990 --> 10:27.110] [EVILCORLEY]: It just seems like it's stacked on their side.
[10:28.390 --> 10:30.210] [EVILCORLEY]: You're going to get a judge that agrees with you.
[10:30.590 --> 10:31.730] [EVILCORLEY]: How do you counter that?
[10:31.830 --> 10:38.410] [EVILCORLEY]: What's, you know, other than the CDC appealing or the Department of Justice appealing, which takes time.
[10:38.930 --> 10:40.210] [EVILCORLEY]: And meanwhile, people are getting sick.
[10:40.210 --> 10:45.310] [EVILCORLEY]: People are, you know, and I should also point out, I looked at some polls on the subject.
[10:45.470 --> 10:47.970] [EVILCORLEY]: In my state of mind, I was still able to do this.
[10:48.150 --> 10:56.850] [EVILCORLEY]: And I was surprised because, you know, looking at the reaction as it's being broadcast in the mass media, I feel like the outsider.
[10:57.050 --> 11:11.690] [EVILCORLEY]: I feel like somebody who is, you know, being mocked and ridiculed for wanting to just, you know, stay safe a little longer until we actually conquer the disease, which we haven't entirely done by anybody's interpretation.
[11:13.010 --> 11:23.090] [EVILCORLEY]: And instead, it turns out 24% of people polled support not having masks on airplanes and trains.
[11:23.410 --> 11:24.350] [EVILCORLEY]: 24%, that's it.
[11:24.990 --> 11:28.930] [EVILCORLEY]: More than 50%, I think close to 60% of people support it.
[11:28.930 --> 11:34.490] [EVILCORLEY]: And that's a pretty strong division.
[11:35.050 --> 11:36.450] [EVILCORLEY]: Sorry, I'm struggling for words.
[11:37.010 --> 11:42.370] [EVILCORLEY]: It's a pretty, it's pretty big difference between those who support it and those who do not support it.
[11:44.590 --> 11:47.710] [EVILCORLEY]: So it's, it's kind of mind boggling.
[11:47.830 --> 11:49.710] [EVILCORLEY]: But then in my state, everything is mind boggling.
[11:50.350 --> 11:58.630] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, you know, I can tell you're really feeling the effect of this, because you are certainly one who's never at a loss for words, Emmanuel, I have to say.
[12:00.070 --> 12:06.690] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, speaking of words, the word garrulous comes to mind, too, and in the best way possible, I mean.
[12:07.270 --> 12:12.990] [ALEXURBELS]: But to go back to your question about, you know, how do you, how do you avoid bias and form shopping?
[12:12.990 --> 12:19.850] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, yeah, it's all baked into Article 3 of the Constitution and the way in which the federal judiciary was designed.
[12:20.090 --> 12:33.790] [ALEXURBELS]: And in particular, these federal judges, even though they're appointed by certain presidents who have political persuasion, they're appointed for life, and they are supposed to be apolitical for life.
[12:33.790 --> 12:39.870] [ALEXURBELS]: And the fact that this is a lifetime appointment insulates them from the political process once they're confirmed as judges.
[12:39.870 --> 12:55.290] [ALEXURBELS]: So, in theory, you should be able to have an impartial judge who is appointed for life without fear of any political repercussions or consequences, should they find for the plaintiff or the defendant in a politically unpopular manner.
[12:55.670 --> 12:57.510] [ALEXURBELS]: But it's not always the case.
[12:57.650 --> 13:01.090] [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, every judge brings their history and their baggage to every courtroom.
[13:01.290 --> 13:07.810] [ALEXURBELS]: I think that they try their best, most of them, I will say, to decide cases impartially.
[13:07.810 --> 13:11.730] [ALEXURBELS]: And I have a great respect for the federal judiciary.
[13:12.350 --> 13:25.590] [ALEXURBELS]: I will say, though, with respect to this judge, if I were practicing law for eight years, eight years into my career practicing law, I had no idea what I was doing.
[13:25.770 --> 13:32.850] [ALEXURBELS]: And most lawyers who are eight years in really don't have a clue about the practice of law at that stage in your career.
[13:32.850 --> 13:35.070] [ALEXURBELS]: You are still very, very new.
[13:35.230 --> 13:38.550] [ALEXURBELS]: And I'm 17 years in practicing now.
[13:38.650 --> 13:45.930] [ALEXURBELS]: And I feel like I still feel very much like a young attorney who's learning the ropes in a lot of ways.
[13:45.950 --> 13:48.110] [ALEXURBELS]: And maybe that's just my attitude towards things.
[13:48.250 --> 13:50.910] [ALEXURBELS]: That's why I love the practice of law, because you're constantly learning.
[13:51.070 --> 13:52.730] [ALEXURBELS]: You're never really mastering something.
[13:52.850 --> 13:53.950] [ALEXURBELS]: There's always something new.
[13:54.090 --> 13:56.710] [ALEXURBELS]: And it's such a huge body of knowledge to master.
[13:56.710 --> 14:00.390] [ALEXURBELS]: But eight years in, you're still really, really green.
[14:00.390 --> 14:10.670] [ALEXURBELS]: And this is a massive decision that affects the entire country, overrules a critical governmental agency at a time when we're still undergoing a global health crisis.
[14:10.830 --> 14:13.790] [ALEXURBELS]: And ordinarily, there is something called Chevron deference.
[14:13.950 --> 14:18.030] [ALEXURBELS]: I'm not sure if that was part of the briefing in this case.
[14:18.030 --> 14:31.330] [ALEXURBELS]: But the doctrine of Chevron deference generally says that courts should defer to the area of expertise for a particular agency when deciding whether or not they have done something appropriate.
[14:31.610 --> 14:34.210] [ALEXURBELS]: And I think that the judge in this case...
[14:34.210 --> 14:35.670] [ALEXURBELS]: I keep saying the judge.
[14:35.750 --> 14:38.450] [ALEXURBELS]: Her name is Catherine Kimball Mizell.
[14:38.490 --> 14:42.910] [ALEXURBELS]: And it's from the Middle District of Florida, Federal District Court, the Middle District of Florida.
[14:42.910 --> 14:53.450] [ALEXURBELS]: But I think she might have sidestepped the issue of Chevron deference in this case by focusing on whether or not the CDC had exceeded its actual legal authority.
[14:54.030 --> 15:02.390] [KYLEDROSDK]: I think the latest, the Times is reporting that this is possibly going to be appealed by the DOJ in some avenue or another.
[15:04.830 --> 15:16.990] [KYLEDROSDK]: But it strikes me that this is still, in those areas, specifically transport, public transport, much in the way that the MTA is kind of drawing their...
[15:16.990 --> 15:30.150] [KYLEDROSDK]: making their own delineations on what works for their system and what is appropriate in their city and in their area and the domain, the confines of the properties that they maintain.
[15:30.150 --> 15:37.850] [KYLEDROSDK]: So, to that end, it seems like it's still something we're sorting out collectively, right?
[15:37.990 --> 15:43.530] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm glad the MTA has some sense at saying, no, you're going to continue to wear masks on our trains and buses.
[15:44.070 --> 15:47.930] [EVILCORLEY]: Out on Long Island, MacArthur Airport, right away dropped the mask requirement.
[15:48.190 --> 15:49.030] [EVILCORLEY]: Today, they reversed it.
[15:49.090 --> 15:49.610] [EVILCORLEY]: They put it back.
[15:50.130 --> 15:51.370] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm seeing a lot of that.
[15:51.490 --> 15:52.270] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm seeing a lot of...
[15:52.670 --> 15:53.230] [EVILCORLEY]: Wait a minute.
[15:53.290 --> 15:53.890] [EVILCORLEY]: This is stupid.
[15:54.070 --> 15:55.890] [EVILCORLEY]: This is not necessarily a good idea.
[15:55.890 --> 16:18.810] [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, it's like one thing in the air, in a vehicle, an aircraft that is circulating and filtering and doing all those kinds of stuff, but standing in line, crowding around security checkpoints or ticketing agents, and you're in proximity with people that are dealing with the public and staying there at the airport,
[16:18.810 --> 16:23.950] [KYLEDROSDK]: maybe that's a logical place to keep your distance or have a little extra precaution.
[16:25.110 --> 16:26.210] [KYLEDROSDK]: So, yeah, I don't know.
[16:26.470 --> 16:30.490] [KYLEDROSDK]: We're still figuring out what works and thinking it through.
[16:30.930 --> 16:32.990] [EVILCORLEY]: I'd rather err on the side of caution.
[16:33.190 --> 16:34.430] [EVILCORLEY]: I always would rather do that.
[16:34.590 --> 16:42.810] [EVILCORLEY]: I would wear a mask for another year if I could have gotten it last week back, not dealing with being sicker than I've been this whole century.
[16:43.210 --> 16:44.210] [EVILCORLEY]: I've thought about what I think.
[16:44.210 --> 16:45.450] [EVILCORLEY]: And this is a mild case.
[16:45.630 --> 16:46.830] [EVILCORLEY]: What we have...
[16:47.410 --> 16:48.330] [EVILCORLEY]: You're new to this, Kyle.
[16:48.330 --> 16:56.170] [EVILCORLEY]: What I've had for the last week has been relatively mild, certainly compared to what many, many other people have gone through.
[16:56.410 --> 17:00.350] [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, it doesn't even compare, but it's still miserable.
[17:00.410 --> 17:02.050] [EVILCORLEY]: It's still something that...
[17:02.050 --> 17:06.490] [EVILCORLEY]: A slight inconvenience, like putting something over your face when you're around other people.
[17:08.110 --> 17:08.590] [EVILCORLEY]: It's...
[17:08.590 --> 17:09.810] [EVILCORLEY]: That is so worth it.
[17:10.630 --> 17:11.390] [KYLEDROSDK]: I agree.
[17:11.390 --> 17:11.910] [KYLEDROSDK]: I agree.
[17:11.930 --> 17:14.210] [KYLEDROSDK]: I would sacrifice a little bit more.
[17:14.950 --> 17:16.390] [KYLEDROSDK]: I've thought about what I did.
[17:16.510 --> 17:17.370] [KYLEDROSDK]: I know what I did.
[17:17.370 --> 17:18.130] [KYLEDROSDK]: What did you do?
[17:18.410 --> 17:18.950] [KYLEDROSDK]: I don't know.
[17:19.130 --> 17:21.750] [KYLEDROSDK]: I was a little bit more cavalier, like everyone else, probably.
[17:22.010 --> 17:23.330] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I don't think we did anything that...
[17:23.330 --> 17:24.750] [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, you know, we...
[17:24.750 --> 17:25.390] [EVILCORLEY]: Not explicitly.
[17:25.710 --> 17:28.510] [EVILCORLEY]: Went about our lives and we're, you know, careful when we could be.
[17:28.590 --> 17:38.750] [EVILCORLEY]: But I think, you know, things like this, where people now are, you know, on airplanes without masks and spreading diseases all over the place now because we still have it in the air.
[17:38.850 --> 17:40.770] [KYLEDROSDK]: It makes the likelihood you bump into it more...
[17:40.770 --> 17:45.810] [EVILCORLEY]: Then your chances living your life on the ground increase because of that irresponsibility.
[17:45.910 --> 17:46.670] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm sorry, Alex, go ahead.
[17:48.750 --> 17:50.990] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, I wanted to chime in.
[17:51.390 --> 18:01.710] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, this is a particularly going decision for me, too, because over the next week and a half, I'm going to be on four flights and one train.
[18:02.850 --> 18:06.030] [ALEXURBELS]: And it's, you know, that's a lot of flights to be on.
[18:06.030 --> 18:10.950] [ALEXURBELS]: And all of a sudden, I know that all of these flights are going to be filled with maskless people.
[18:10.950 --> 18:20.550] [ALEXURBELS]: It's a little jarring, you know, having also recently been on a couple of flights going back and forth to South Carolina a couple of weeks ago.
[18:20.910 --> 18:22.590] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, it still is...
[18:22.590 --> 18:24.930] [ALEXURBELS]: I just don't like flying with a mask.
[18:24.930 --> 18:27.390] [ALEXURBELS]: I can understand the reluctance there.
[18:28.010 --> 18:34.630] [ALEXURBELS]: And you get into the airport and you've got this mask on, you know, literally until you get out of the airport on the other side.
[18:34.810 --> 18:35.790] [ALEXURBELS]: And it is...
[18:35.790 --> 18:37.210] [ALEXURBELS]: It's an inconvenience.
[18:37.330 --> 18:37.910] [ALEXURBELS]: It's uncomfortable.
[18:39.210 --> 18:45.730] [ALEXURBELS]: But I certainly feel a lot safer in this flying aluminum can with completely recycled air.
[18:45.730 --> 18:54.250] [ALEXURBELS]: And I know a lot of people say that the air is super filtrated and possibly, you know, even cleaner than the air that you would ordinarily breathe on the streets in the cities of New York.
[18:54.470 --> 19:05.090] [ALEXURBELS]: To me, psychologically, when you're that close to people and on a packed flight to wherever you're going, it just seems like a mask would certainly be a good idea to have in place for a little while longer.
[19:05.390 --> 19:06.770] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, we've done it for two years.
[19:07.130 --> 19:07.950] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, exactly.
[19:08.090 --> 19:08.890] [EVILCORLEY]: A little while longer.
[19:09.150 --> 19:10.670] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, things have improved.
[19:11.010 --> 19:11.410] [EVILCORLEY]: Absolutely.
[19:11.650 --> 19:13.710] [EVILCORLEY]: The vaccine is having a great effect.
[19:13.710 --> 19:17.690] [EVILCORLEY]: That's really the only reason why we're not getting sicker than we are.
[19:19.950 --> 19:20.810] [EVILCORLEY]: It's just...
[19:20.810 --> 19:24.770] [EVILCORLEY]: It's frustrating to have to battle these common sense things over and over again.
[19:25.610 --> 19:26.750] [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, I don't know.
[19:27.150 --> 19:29.150] [KYLEDROSDK]: It's true.
[19:29.150 --> 19:33.250] [KYLEDROSDK]: I think maybe it would have been more severe or something.
[19:33.250 --> 19:38.630] [KYLEDROSDK]: But I definitely feel like, you know, I'm taking note.
[19:38.790 --> 19:41.950] [KYLEDROSDK]: And, of course, allergy season is here for allergy sufferers.
[19:42.570 --> 19:43.330] [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, just to add to it.
[19:43.330 --> 19:44.510] [KYLEDROSDK]: It's just all happening.
[19:44.990 --> 19:46.650] [KYLEDROSDK]: So, yeah, get through it, everybody.
[19:46.870 --> 19:47.710] [EVILCORLEY]: A couple of programming notes.
[19:47.710 --> 19:54.270] [EVILCORLEY]: Because of the fact that Rob and Gila is not here this week and we're sick, we're not doing overtime tonight, folks.
[19:54.370 --> 19:55.350] [EVILCORLEY]: There's a limit.
[19:55.810 --> 19:58.890] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, there's so much that we have to catch up on.
[19:59.150 --> 20:00.850] [EVILCORLEY]: And I don't even know if we can do that.
[20:01.530 --> 20:03.110] [EVILCORLEY]: And we're not on next week.
[20:03.110 --> 20:09.110] [EVILCORLEY]: So, hopefully, this is all recovery period and we'll be back in better shape in two weeks.
[20:09.330 --> 20:13.030] [EVILCORLEY]: But let me move on to a better judge, all right?
[20:13.690 --> 20:16.970] [EVILCORLEY]: And by the way, Alex, you know, I know you respect the federal system.
[20:17.130 --> 20:21.670] [EVILCORLEY]: I don't respect the system because one person making that decision, that's flawed.
[20:21.670 --> 20:22.230] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm sorry.
[20:22.230 --> 20:26.110] [EVILCORLEY]: If that person is wrong, then we all have to live with one person's mistake.
[20:26.550 --> 20:28.030] [EVILCORLEY]: There should be checks and balances.
[20:28.250 --> 20:29.790] [EVILCORLEY]: There's no checks and balances here.
[20:30.090 --> 20:32.370] [EVILCORLEY]: It's just simply one person wins that lottery.
[20:32.370 --> 20:34.930] [EVILCORLEY]: They get to decide on behalf of the entire country.
[20:34.930 --> 20:36.950] [EVILCORLEY]: And we're supposed to accept that.
[20:37.130 --> 20:37.630] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm sorry.
[20:37.750 --> 20:38.370] [EVILCORLEY]: I can't do that.
[20:39.690 --> 20:45.050] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, look, that's all a good reason for the Biden administration to appeal this decision.
[20:45.710 --> 20:51.550] [ALEXURBELS]: I think the decision right now, as it stands, as coming from a federal judge, is essentially the law of the land.
[20:51.670 --> 20:53.590] [ALEXURBELS]: It has to be applied across the land.
[20:53.770 --> 20:58.590] [ALEXURBELS]: And so, if this decision stands and is not appealed, it's going to be...
[20:58.590 --> 21:06.230] [ALEXURBELS]: It will certainly be cited over and over and over again for pretty bad precedent with respect to the authority of the CDC.
[21:06.810 --> 21:14.770] [ALEXURBELS]: And while you were talking, I did, in fact, look up whether this concept of Chevron deference that comes into play was referenced in the case.
[21:14.830 --> 21:19.570] [ALEXURBELS]: And it turns out there was a really important distinction that the judge made.
[21:19.850 --> 21:40.930] [ALEXURBELS]: The judge here, Mazzel, had stated in her decision, I believe, that this concept of Chevron deference or deferring to the expertise of a particular federal agency only applies when the devices of judicial construction have been tried and found to yield no clear sense of congressional intent.
[21:41.490 --> 22:03.970] [ALEXURBELS]: Which, to me, is really kind of fascinating in a lot of ways as well, because instead of deferring to the government or an agency in its area of expertise, this judge is essentially saying that it's up to the judges to use these canons of judicial construction to figure out what the law is or what the limits of the authority are.
[22:04.690 --> 22:06.810] [ALEXURBELS]: Not deference to the agency.
[22:07.290 --> 22:17.210] [ALEXURBELS]: And that seems to me to fly in the face of the type of judicial activism that conservatives are constantly rallying about coming from the federal judiciary.
[22:17.430 --> 22:20.070] [ALEXURBELS]: That they shouldn't mingle into politics.
[22:20.070 --> 22:23.690] [ALEXURBELS]: That they shouldn't venture out into politically dangerous waters.
[22:23.690 --> 22:27.330] [ALEXURBELS]: That, you know, they should just decide these cases and controversies, and that's it.
[22:27.510 --> 22:32.270] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, you know, I'd like to see that criticism applied equally to this decision.
[22:33.430 --> 22:34.030] [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[22:34.090 --> 22:35.370] [EVILCORLEY]: Moving on to another judge.
[22:35.630 --> 22:36.810] [EVILCORLEY]: This judge is in Brazil.
[22:38.350 --> 22:47.970] [EVILCORLEY]: And they ruled that Apple must pay a man over $1,000 because they did not include an iPhone charger in the box when he bought an iPhone.
[22:47.970 --> 22:48.830] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[22:49.770 --> 22:55.670] [EVILCORLEY]: See, back in 2020, Apple made headlines for making a bold move by giving people less.
[22:56.010 --> 22:56.950] [EVILCORLEY]: Charging them more.
[22:57.090 --> 22:57.770] [EVILCORLEY]: And people love it.
[22:58.190 --> 22:58.410] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[22:58.530 --> 23:00.910] [EVILCORLEY]: Stopped including chargers with their new iPhones.
[23:01.950 --> 23:02.870] [EVILCORLEY]: Company Logic.
[23:04.050 --> 23:06.530] [EVILCORLEY]: Bear with me for a second while we get into Apple Logic here.
[23:06.950 --> 23:10.410] [EVILCORLEY]: They stopped the practice because it would be better for the environment.
[23:10.710 --> 23:12.450] [EVILCORLEY]: Because everybody already owns a charger.
[23:13.210 --> 23:13.730] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[23:13.830 --> 23:15.130] [EVILCORLEY]: So why give them another charger?
[23:15.910 --> 23:17.450] [EVILCORLEY]: In fact, why even tell them?
[23:19.490 --> 23:25.670] [EVILCORLEY]: But rumors continue to circulate that this move saved Apple literally billions of dollars.
[23:26.210 --> 23:27.570] [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe that was the real reason.
[23:27.810 --> 23:30.610] [EVILCORLEY]: Other companies, including Samsung, have followed suit.
[23:31.030 --> 23:34.570] [EVILCORLEY]: But Brazil is not very happy about this at all.
[23:35.030 --> 23:39.050] [EVILCORLEY]: The country previously fined Apple $2 million over the change.
[23:39.050 --> 23:48.030] [EVILCORLEY]: And now, the Cupertino, California company, must pay one specific man 5,000 Brazilian real.
[23:48.410 --> 23:51.470] [EVILCORLEY]: That's $1,082 U.S.
[23:51.550 --> 23:51.970] [EVILCORLEY]: dollars.
[23:52.750 --> 23:58.430] [EVILCORLEY]: The news comes thanks to a judge ruling in favor of the man's lawsuit against Apple.
[23:59.110 --> 24:00.870] [EVILCORLEY]: The judge said the following.
[24:01.090 --> 24:09.810] [EVILCORLEY]: According to Article 39 of the Consumer Code, which they call CDC, tie sale is an abusive and prohibitive practice in Brazil.
[24:09.810 --> 24:14.050] [EVILCORLEY]: So it is not allowed to sell cell phone and charger separately.
[24:14.430 --> 24:16.590] [EVILCORLEY]: Therefore, Apple is being sentenced...
[24:16.590 --> 24:17.710] [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, I like the sound of this.
[24:17.710 --> 24:25.910] [EVILCORLEY]: Therefore, Apple is being sentenced after selling an iPhone model and charger separately to a consumer in the city of Guania.
[24:26.550 --> 24:45.070] [EVILCORLEY]: According to the result issued by Judge Vanderlei Kers-Pinhero of the 6th Civil Court of Guania, Apple must compensate the consumer 5,000 real for carrying out the tie sale of the company's devices.
[24:45.630 --> 24:50.810] [EVILCORLEY]: Tie sale refers to the practice of forcing a consumer to buy two products in order to make one of them fully work.
[24:51.310 --> 24:56.590] [EVILCORLEY]: In this case, the judge considers the necessity of buying a charger after buying a new iPhone to be a tie sale.
[24:57.150 --> 25:01.390] [EVILCORLEY]: Of course, Apple argued that most people have chargers already, but that didn't sway the judge.
[25:01.610 --> 25:02.690] [EVILCORLEY]: See, I like this judge.
[25:02.790 --> 25:03.870] [EVILCORLEY]: Why can't we get that judge?
[25:04.470 --> 25:10.610] [EVILCORLEY]: So the big question looming over this case is how it could change smartphone launches in Brazil going forward.
[25:15.390 --> 25:17.450] [EVILCORLEY]: Basically, Brazil is the exception.
[25:18.430 --> 25:24.110] [EVILCORLEY]: I think various companies, iPhones...
[25:24.110 --> 25:30.590] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, Samsung includes chargers with its phones when sold in Brazil, but not in other countries.
[25:31.310 --> 25:39.410] [EVILCORLEY]: So, if you want to buy a new Samsung phone, going to Brazil, buying it there and coming back will ensure that you get a charger.
[25:40.170 --> 25:41.710] [EVILCORLEY]: And that's really the only way.
[25:41.850 --> 25:43.570] [EVILCORLEY]: And that's the crazy world we live in.
[25:44.210 --> 25:54.150] [KYLEDROSDK]: In some cases, they're bringing into their new model a new type or new style of charger.
[25:54.150 --> 25:57.370] [KYLEDROSDK]: So, you may not necessarily have that type.
[25:57.670 --> 26:02.210] [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm referring specifically to something like USB-C chargers.
[26:02.310 --> 26:08.610] [KYLEDROSDK]: When those first came out, a lot of people have micro-USB and other types of connectors.
[26:09.390 --> 26:11.430] [KYLEDROSDK]: But maybe that's not the best example.
[26:11.530 --> 26:13.030] [KYLEDROSDK]: There's other examples of that.
[26:13.350 --> 26:14.310] [EVILCORLEY]: There's other things, too.
[26:14.470 --> 26:17.810] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, you don't get manuals anymore when you buy things.
[26:18.030 --> 26:18.830] [KYLEDROSDK]: No, it's all online.
[26:18.890 --> 26:20.690] [KYLEDROSDK]: It assumes that you have Internet connections, yeah.
[26:20.690 --> 26:25.170] [EVILCORLEY]: Right, as soon as you have Internet connections and that you know exactly what to look up, I like having manuals.
[26:25.270 --> 26:26.870] [EVILCORLEY]: I like being able to thumb through it at my leisure.
[26:27.010 --> 26:34.290] [KYLEDROSDK]: But the excuse that it is eco-friendly is like, it's true, but it's sort of a half-truth.
[26:35.150 --> 26:38.070] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, and okay, you're saving billions of dollars.
[26:38.290 --> 26:39.990] [EVILCORLEY]: Why don't you pump that into the environment?
[26:40.270 --> 26:41.650] [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe we'll leave you there.
[26:41.810 --> 26:45.010] [KYLEDROSDK]: Convince me that you're building a better phone because of all the money.
[26:45.290 --> 26:49.410] [KYLEDROSDK]: You know, you're reinvesting all that into the design and electrical engineering.
[26:50.810 --> 26:53.470] [EVILCORLEY]: Any thoughts on Brazilian judges, Alex?
[26:54.710 --> 26:55.110] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[26:55.650 --> 26:59.590] [ALEXURBELS]: They seem to really balance the equities quite well, I think.
[26:59.730 --> 27:08.230] [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, I'm certainly no expert on Brazilian law, but I can empathize with the judges' reasoning there.
[27:08.370 --> 27:26.730] [KYLEDROSDK]: Sounds like they have an established precedent that this practice has been adjudicated in Brazil thoroughly, and they have a way of identifying and holding people to that, you know, because they have a criteria that says, this is what that practice is,
[27:26.750 --> 27:27.630] [KYLEDROSDK]: and we don't do that here.
[27:28.470 --> 27:46.750] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, it's an interesting point, too, Kyle, because having been in compliance as well, I was the chief compliance officer of a very big luxury company, but oftentimes what big companies will do that have a global presence is when it comes to complying with local laws or local regulations,
[27:47.110 --> 27:58.850] [ALEXURBELS]: you need to figure out and take a global view of what's out there, and then you design your programs and your products to comply with the strictest standard with which you are expected to comply.
[28:00.370 --> 28:17.390] [ALEXURBELS]: And if global companies are doing that, this is a manner in which the local laws of a country, something like Brazil, that seem to be rather consumer-friendly, can actually have a knock-on effect around the whole globe, because it becomes really difficult for Apple to have one type of packaging that would only go to Brazil,
[28:17.570 --> 28:23.890] [ALEXURBELS]: and if the other packages don't go to Brazil but go to someplace else, then it creates this problem.
[28:23.890 --> 28:30.570] [ALEXURBELS]: So what they might do in the future is design their products to comply with Brazilian law, and we might could all get chargers again.
[28:30.850 --> 28:37.350] [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, I think a particularly good example of this was the California, the CAFE emission standards.
[28:37.370 --> 28:37.670] [KYLEDROSDK]: Yes.
[28:38.010 --> 28:43.990] [KYLEDROSDK]: Because those specifically really influence heavily the national standard.
[28:44.290 --> 28:57.970] [KYLEDROSDK]: In other words, manufacturers were not going, assuming they weren't cheating, but that's a whole different story, they were not going to design an emissions system that worked in California and then design emission systems for elsewhere.
[28:57.970 --> 29:10.830] [KYLEDROSDK]: They would adhere to the sort of most strict standard, and in effect, California was able to influence national emission standards as a result, which were overall good for urban air quality, et cetera, et cetera.
[29:10.830 --> 29:29.230] [KYLEDROSDK]: But your point is a pretty good one as well, that, yeah, this sort of strategic management angle mixed with a little greenwashing can end up hurting the consumer.
[29:29.490 --> 29:45.530] [KYLEDROSDK]: And, yeah, I mean, in this case, it seems more that they calculated they could make, sales-wise, enough to just satisfy that market and the savings, as E referred to it, the billions of dollars.
[29:45.530 --> 30:00.790] [KYLEDROSDK]: It was just too enticing to not make something just for Brazil to get around it or bypass it and serve up everybody else something that really amounts to a better bottom line for the shareholders.
[30:00.870 --> 30:02.390] [EVILCORLEY]: Of course, I assume they lowered the price.
[30:02.530 --> 30:04.810] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, they didn't include the charger with everybody's phone.
[30:04.910 --> 30:06.230] [EVILCORLEY]: The phones got cheaper, right?
[30:06.670 --> 30:07.590] [KYLEDROSDK]: I don't think so.
[30:07.730 --> 30:08.290] [KYLEDROSDK]: That's what I'm saying.
[30:08.490 --> 30:09.470] [EVILCORLEY]: How is that possible?
[30:09.790 --> 30:10.390] [KYLEDROSDK]: It just...
[30:10.870 --> 30:11.090] [EVILCORLEY]: Hmm.
[30:12.010 --> 30:13.230] [EVILCORLEY]: Somebody must have made a mistake.
[30:14.410 --> 30:22.870] [KYLEDROSDK]: It eliminates overhead, and, yeah, it ends up making it a better margin on that product.
[30:23.870 --> 30:33.070] [EVILCORLEY]: We have an email address to write to us here at the radio station, or the show that's on the radio station, Off The Hook, oth@2600.com.
[30:33.910 --> 30:37.170] [EVILCORLEY]: And we got some emails that I'm going to read here.
[30:37.670 --> 30:40.890] [EVILCORLEY]: We were accused of being too anti-Putin.
[30:41.810 --> 30:45.650] [EVILCORLEY]: Remember that people are saying they're not going to listen to us anymore because we're too anti-Putin.
[30:45.790 --> 30:48.110] [EVILCORLEY]: I don't think you can be anti-Putin enough, but that's just me.
[30:48.670 --> 30:49.910] [EVILCORLEY]: But we got this letter.
[30:49.910 --> 30:55.990] [EVILCORLEY]: I will continue to listen to Off The Hook exactly because you are anti-Putin just enough, like me.
[30:56.230 --> 30:56.590] [EVILCORLEY]: Thank you.
[30:56.890 --> 31:02.850] [EVILCORLEY]: Your program's helped me to live in this country, which is a colony of Russia, signed Victor in Belarus.
[31:02.850 --> 31:03.110] [EVILCORLEY]: Belarus.
[31:04.250 --> 31:04.730] [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[31:05.030 --> 31:07.850] [EVILCORLEY]: Victor in Belarus, that is...
[31:08.450 --> 31:09.830] [EVILCORLEY]: That letter made my day.
[31:09.950 --> 31:13.070] [EVILCORLEY]: That is incredible that we have listeners in Belarus.
[31:14.350 --> 31:15.670] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, we've been there.
[31:16.810 --> 31:18.530] [EVILCORLEY]: It's a fascinating place.
[31:18.530 --> 31:21.770] [EVILCORLEY]: It's a sad place because there's so much potential there, so many good people there.
[31:22.210 --> 31:23.770] [EVILCORLEY]: And what a horrible government.
[31:23.950 --> 31:24.810] [EVILCORLEY]: What a horrible regime.
[31:25.390 --> 31:40.430] [EVILCORLEY]: But maybe steps are being taken throughout all this craziness that's happening right now, all this horror, that we'll finally remove that particular regime, change it.
[31:40.590 --> 31:42.370] [EVILCORLEY]: I sure hope so, because...
[31:42.370 --> 31:43.770] [KYLEDROSDK]: They don't deserve to get dragged into this.
[31:43.870 --> 31:44.630] [EVILCORLEY]: Absolutely not.
[31:44.750 --> 31:46.890] [EVILCORLEY]: The people there are amazing.
[31:46.950 --> 31:52.410] [EVILCORLEY]: They deserve to be happy and prosperous, not live under some dictator's thumb.
[31:56.450 --> 31:57.010] [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, Al?
[31:58.250 --> 31:59.310] [ALEXURBELS]: Jumping in there, too.
[31:59.750 --> 32:03.610] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, all of this, I think, gets back to this idea.
[32:03.610 --> 32:20.590] [ALEXURBELS]: And, you know, bringing it back full circle to the hacker issues here, which are, I think, you know, the ability to acquire information and to acquire the truth, access the truth within Russia these days is absolutely horrifying.
[32:21.270 --> 32:29.210] [ALEXURBELS]: And Putin's grip on dissidents and his grip on the media is ever-strengthening every day.
[32:29.210 --> 32:39.690] [ALEXURBELS]: And because they're so cut off and because of the centralized nature of where we get our information, it's able...
[32:39.690 --> 32:48.210] [ALEXURBELS]: You're able to shut off an entire country's access to something like Facebook, Twitter, CNN, various websites, things like that.
[32:49.030 --> 33:03.490] [ALEXURBELS]: And it also is becoming more and more apparent from the news that I'm reading, that people in Russia appear to be more behind the war or the specialized military operation than they were before.
[33:03.690 --> 33:11.830] [ALEXURBELS]: And that could, in large part, be because of the manner in which Putin has been addressing things like sanctions.
[33:11.830 --> 33:16.970] [ALEXURBELS]: And we have these massive sanctions that, you know, nearly a third of the world has imposed on Russia.
[33:17.230 --> 33:23.990] [ALEXURBELS]: And these sanctions are designed to hurt the oligarchs and designed to hurt the treasury of Russia.
[33:24.150 --> 33:28.110] [ALEXURBELS]: But they also certainly hit ordinary people in the pocketbook.
[33:28.790 --> 33:52.050] [ALEXURBELS]: And because of that, Putin has been able to essentially espouse throughout all of the Russian state media and all of the media that's controlled by Russia, which is just about everything now, that this is a concerted effort by the West to target Russians and to hurt the ordinary Russian people.
[33:52.250 --> 33:59.910] [ALEXURBELS]: And this, because these sanctions are so harsh, this lends credence to the idea that it is essentially Russia against the world here.
[34:00.190 --> 34:02.270] [ALEXURBELS]: And they need to fight for their survival.
[34:02.270 --> 34:15.270] [ALEXURBELS]: So they've been able to harness the things that we are doing to try to hurt Russia without using military force to justify that military force because they have such drastic control over information, truth in the media in Russia.
[34:15.610 --> 34:43.090] [ALEXURBELS]: And as this continues to dissipate and dwindle and has Russia's fate becomes worse and worse and there's more casualties and the military looks continuously like they're bungling things and in fact losing, that then increases the need for Putin to maintain this stranglehold over the media.
[34:43.330 --> 34:54.310] [ALEXURBELS]: So the degree to which Russians are doing poorly in the war is disproportionate to the amount of access and truth that is going to be available in Russia.
[34:54.310 --> 35:12.430] [ALEXURBELS]: Or you could say otherwise, it's directly proportional to how badly Putin needs to control information and control the media in Russia in order to maintain power and to maintain, you know, his own stranglehold over the Russian population.
[35:12.950 --> 35:18.010] [EVILCORLEY]: We've mentioned this before, but there is a YouTube channel.
[35:18.010 --> 35:33.270] [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know if it's the channel name, but it's, uh, if you type 1420, the numbers 1420 into YouTube, you'll see a bunch of videos, uh, that, um, people are making in, in Russia, just asking people on the street, various questions.
[35:33.690 --> 35:34.790] [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, I'll read you a couple.
[35:34.890 --> 35:36.670] [EVILCORLEY]: Do you think the world hates Russia?
[35:37.350 --> 35:40.130] [EVILCORLEY]: Um, are you brainwashed?
[35:40.590 --> 35:47.010] [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, Russians name a country they don't like, uh, how the special operation, which is what they refer to the war as changed our life.
[35:47.490 --> 35:48.770] [EVILCORLEY]: Um, things like that.
[35:49.170 --> 35:59.470] [EVILCORLEY]: You get to see people pretty much unscripted and you also get to see what Russian people are like, how, how very different they are from each other in many ways.
[35:59.870 --> 36:04.150] [EVILCORLEY]: Um, it gives me hope to see that it's one avenue.
[36:04.370 --> 36:05.510] [EVILCORLEY]: It's only one avenue.
[36:05.670 --> 36:06.910] [EVILCORLEY]: There needs to be so many more.
[36:06.990 --> 36:14.790] [EVILCORLEY]: There needs to be so many other ways to get, uh, uh, to the mainstream, to get to people, to, to, uh, have media outlets.
[36:15.670 --> 36:18.050] [EVILCORLEY]: Um, so much is, is forbidden.
[36:18.290 --> 36:19.830] [EVILCORLEY]: You can't even say it's a war over there.
[36:19.930 --> 36:22.990] [EVILCORLEY]: You can get in trouble for saying it's a war or an invasion.
[36:23.770 --> 36:29.450] [EVILCORLEY]: And yeah, Alex, what you're saying about, um, uh, about how they have been, uh, losing many ways.
[36:29.770 --> 36:44.770] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm worried about what they're doing in the East right now, which is basically just obliterating cities and, uh, um, taking, um, uh, civilians hostage and, and bringing them into Russia, uh, these are all well-documented.
[36:45.210 --> 36:54.670] [EVILCORLEY]: These are all verifiable, uh, people going missing and, um, um, all kinds of reports that are being, um, being heard from multiple sources.
[36:55.090 --> 37:02.650] [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, that is where it gets really, really scary because Russia shows they don't really care what the rest of the world thinks.
[37:02.650 --> 37:11.530] [EVILCORLEY]: They're just going to, um, uh, keep bulldozing and, and, and blasting and killing, uh, until they decide they're done.
[37:13.310 --> 37:22.090] [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, for all the, um, uh, all the boycotts and, uh, embargoes and, and things like that doesn't seem to be enough.
[37:22.210 --> 37:22.670] [EVILCORLEY]: Not yet.
[37:23.270 --> 37:27.770] [EVILCORLEY]: So we have to keep thinking of, of other ways, uh, you know, to stop this.
[37:28.830 --> 37:38.650] [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, I felt that this week, particularly just this profound sense that, uh, we're failing the Ukrainian people in their efforts.
[37:38.810 --> 37:44.970] [KYLEDROSDK]: And I know there's a lot that is being done and, um, people may even be, uh, tired.
[37:45.210 --> 37:45.730] [KYLEDROSDK]: Oh gosh.
[37:45.930 --> 37:51.330] [KYLEDROSDK]: Of, uh, of talking about it or, or, um, sharing information about it.
[37:51.470 --> 38:09.030] [KYLEDROSDK]: But, um, we really, I, I hope there's more that is being done, but I don't want to be in a sit with this coy sense that, um, yeah, it's all happening, but we're, but we're just not talking about it because, you know, it's a wartime and we have to be quiet about it.
[38:09.410 --> 38:12.890] [KYLEDROSDK]: You know, there's still Americans that are, uh, being held in Russia.
[38:13.330 --> 38:19.390] [KYLEDROSDK]: There's all kinds of aspects of this that are, um, that are ongoing.
[38:19.390 --> 38:26.170] [KYLEDROSDK]: And, and, uh, I just find that, you know, we should not sit back and wait for a reaction.
[38:26.370 --> 38:27.730] [KYLEDROSDK]: We should continue to...
[38:27.730 --> 38:28.810] [EVILCORLEY]: Just, just look at Mariupol.
[38:28.930 --> 38:30.950] [EVILCORLEY]: Just look at pictures of that city now.
[38:31.290 --> 38:32.370] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, just look it up anywhere.
[38:33.590 --> 38:39.710] [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, how is that a goal for any, any regime to do that?
[38:39.950 --> 38:44.710] [EVILCORLEY]: And you realize the same thing has happened in Syria and in, in, in, in many places.
[38:45.930 --> 38:50.730] [EVILCORLEY]: It's, it's, it's barbaric and it's horrible and it's, I don't have the answer.
[38:51.050 --> 38:54.430] [EVILCORLEY]: Obviously the answer is, is, is not to go to war with Russia.
[38:54.570 --> 38:55.290] [EVILCORLEY]: That's insane.
[38:56.190 --> 39:01.350] [EVILCORLEY]: But there has to be some other option that will put an end to the madness.
[39:03.450 --> 39:14.030] [EVILCORLEY]: At the very least, at the very least, continuing to talk about it, even on shows about technology like this one is, um, that's a way of getting the word out to other people.
[39:14.030 --> 39:23.050] [EVILCORLEY]: And maybe thinking of things on a technological level, but there's no place where this should be avoided at all.
[39:23.570 --> 39:23.670] [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[39:23.730 --> 39:25.950] [KYLEDROSDK]: Well, we'll, um, continue to follow this.
[39:26.110 --> 39:44.370] [KYLEDROSDK]: Of course, all the, uh, the kinds of, uh, important leaks, the, the, uh, humanitarian logistics, the cooperation, and, um, just the listening, you know, the world's really listening to, um, a country that, that really is, is asking quite for, for quite a lot,
[39:44.490 --> 39:45.850] [KYLEDROSDK]: but sacrificing a lot in the process.
[39:46.050 --> 39:57.910] [KYLEDROSDK]: So it's, it's a fascinating, um, effort that, that we are ostensibly a part of, uh, indirectly everyone, um, in the, in the Western world.
[39:58.070 --> 39:59.930] [EVILCORLEY]: Think about how this turns out though.
[39:59.930 --> 40:10.450] [EVILCORLEY]: If, if, um, nothing can be done to save Ukraine, despite all the, uh, world reaction, what does that do to the world in the future?
[40:10.570 --> 40:13.410] [EVILCORLEY]: What does that do to, to anybody standing up for justice?
[40:14.190 --> 40:32.130] [EVILCORLEY]: And conversely, if this does result in, um, in this kind of thing being harshly rebuked and, um, the steps taken to ensure it doesn't happen again, that might be a shot in the arm that people need, you know, that, that their voices meant something.
[40:33.030 --> 40:33.470] [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[40:33.590 --> 40:44.170] [KYLEDROSDK]: To me, this is like, um, a direct result of, um, the arms races that, that we've partake, that we partake in, you know, these are the side effects.
[40:44.310 --> 40:57.710] [KYLEDROSDK]: These are the consequences because we're now so afraid, um, to do anything more or even appear to be doing anything more than the bare minimum, uh, for a place, uh, like Ukraine.
[40:58.050 --> 41:12.230] [KYLEDROSDK]: And that makes it really fraught because there's this sense that we all have to have an extraordinary weaponry to protect ourselves, but, but, um, it's all there, uh, as a, as a threat.
[41:12.850 --> 41:25.850] [KYLEDROSDK]: And, um, and in the same breath, it can be, you know, that double-edged sword comes back around and it can be used as a threat, a threat to, uh, anyone who would intervene in, in a horror like this.
[41:25.990 --> 41:26.550] [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Alex.
[41:27.990 --> 41:34.010] [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, yeah, I think, I think you're, you're right, Kyle, with, with respect to the, the nuclear issues here.
[41:34.110 --> 41:42.770] [ALEXURBELS]: And I, I want to bring it back to what we were talking about earlier tonight too, with respect to the CDC and the mask mandate and the need to combat dangerous precedents.
[41:42.770 --> 42:01.130] [ALEXURBELS]: And I think that what, what Russia has done to the world here is an extraordinarily dangerous precedent if we do not push back and if we do not fight back on it, because they are essentially blackmailing and holding the entire planet hostage with their arsenal of nuclear weapons by saber rattling with nuclear weapons.
[42:01.310 --> 42:09.570] [ALEXURBELS]: They are preventing anybody from crossing over the line and providing some kind of active measure of support to Ukraine.
[42:09.970 --> 42:17.830] [ALEXURBELS]: And this was something that Russia said very clearly and, and very threateningly at the outset of their invasion into Ukraine.
[42:18.170 --> 42:29.670] [ALEXURBELS]: And if we are going to countenance being held hostage by Putin because of his nuclear arsenal, then what would change about this?
[42:32.500 --> 42:33.940] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I agree, Alex.
[42:34.200 --> 42:34.540] [EVILCORLEY]: He froze.
[42:34.740 --> 42:35.000] [EVILCORLEY]: He froze.
[42:35.200 --> 42:36.440] [EVILCORLEY]: Alex, unfreeze yourself.
[42:36.560 --> 42:37.580] [EVILCORLEY]: You were making a good point there.
[42:38.360 --> 42:41.080] [KYLEDROSDK]: It's got to be, it's got to be silent.
[42:41.080 --> 42:42.280] [KYLEDROSDK]: It's got to be quiet.
[42:42.280 --> 42:44.880] [KYLEDROSDK]: It's got to be like boring business as usual.
[42:45.120 --> 42:48.860] [KYLEDROSDK]: Then no one is the wiser that people are really helping.
[42:48.880 --> 42:55.100] [KYLEDROSDK]: But that's what I meant by that coy cavalier or coy attitude of like, oh yeah, stuff's happening.
[42:55.180 --> 42:56.840] [KYLEDROSDK]: We just, we can't talk about it.
[42:56.940 --> 43:00.320] [KYLEDROSDK]: Well, you need to really be outwardly supportive too.
[43:00.320 --> 43:09.880] [KYLEDROSDK]: And I just feel like things have treated this as like, okay, we're going to put this on back burner while it's escalating, getting worse and worse for people.
[43:10.100 --> 43:19.380] [KYLEDROSDK]: And that, that's scary that, you know, we go on with our little game shows and, and, uh, uh, uh, sports events or whatever, and, and just forget about this.
[43:19.380 --> 43:21.340] [KYLEDROSDK]: And, and that's what, and then that's that feeling.
[43:21.500 --> 43:25.040] [KYLEDROSDK]: I just can't help, but feel like we're, we're just, we're failing.
[43:25.320 --> 43:28.680] [KYLEDROSDK]: And even though we, uh, we say we're doing all this stuff.
[43:28.800 --> 43:29.740] [EVILCORLEY]: Can we get him back?
[43:31.180 --> 43:33.120] [EVILCORLEY]: Doesn't Skype just reconnect at some point?
[43:33.720 --> 43:34.640] [EVILCORLEY]: Would be nice.
[43:35.380 --> 43:35.780] [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[43:35.900 --> 43:37.500] [EVILCORLEY]: He's like a nice little noises.
[43:37.500 --> 43:38.100] [EVILCORLEY]: It makes it.
[43:38.100 --> 43:39.740] [KYLEDROSDK]: It's all these puddle drop sounds.
[43:40.140 --> 43:41.200] [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, for God's sake.
[43:41.200 --> 43:44.420] [KYLEDROSDK]: I think he's there, but I think, um, basically he froze.
[43:45.000 --> 43:47.500] [EVILCORLEY]: Um, no, we know that, but this is ridiculous.
[43:47.860 --> 43:49.360] [KYLEDROSDK]: Well, I thought it was for everybody.
[43:49.820 --> 43:51.980] [KYLEDROSDK]: You know, I thought he was like making her a point.
[43:52.420 --> 43:54.340] [EVILCORLEY]: This is a louder sound.
[43:54.480 --> 43:55.740] [EVILCORLEY]: Is that him calling us?
[43:56.980 --> 43:57.920] [EVILCORLEY]: Alex, there you are.
[43:58.180 --> 43:58.920] [EVILCORLEY]: Welcome back.
[43:59.120 --> 43:59.500] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[44:00.360 --> 44:04.440] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, what, what, what a time for your Internet to just poop out.
[44:04.660 --> 44:04.980] [ALEXURBELS]: Right.
[44:05.720 --> 44:07.360] [ALEXURBELS]: Um, I, I, I forgot.
[44:07.460 --> 44:08.140] [ALEXURBELS]: What was I saying?
[44:08.220 --> 44:09.260] [ALEXURBELS]: Was I saying anything important?
[44:09.360 --> 44:11.360] [ALEXURBELS]: You always say important stuff.
[44:12.080 --> 44:12.340] [ALEXURBELS]: Okay.
[44:12.660 --> 44:27.840] [EVILCORLEY]: So, um, you were talking, you were talking about blackmail, about being held hostage about, you know, um, if, if, if they do this, you know, you're, you're making a comparison, but you never made, you know, if we, if we allow Russia to hold us hostage because of its nuclear arsenal,
[44:27.840 --> 44:32.780] [ALEXURBELS]: with regard to its invasion of Ukraine, then what's going to change factually?
[44:32.780 --> 44:43.600] [ALEXURBELS]: If after Ukraine, Putin then decides to roll into Moldova or roll into Romania or roll into Poland and just keep rolling across Europe and saber rattling with his nuclear arsenal.
[44:43.760 --> 44:49.780] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, Moldova is not part of NATO or the EU, whereas, uh, Romania and Poland are both EU and NATO.
[44:49.960 --> 44:57.040] [EVILCORLEY]: So that's a big difference right there, but there's a good point because, okay, let's say he does say, I'm going to roll into Romania.
[44:57.040 --> 44:59.800] [EVILCORLEY]: Now, uh, it doesn't seem likely, but it's certainly possible.
[45:00.220 --> 45:07.140] [EVILCORLEY]: Um, that does the rule change then, you know, okay, you're going to threaten us nuclear weapons, but you're invading a NATO country.
[45:07.340 --> 45:09.760] [EVILCORLEY]: So that means that we're, we are going to stand up to you.
[45:10.100 --> 45:11.500] [EVILCORLEY]: The threat is still the same.
[45:11.560 --> 45:12.820] [EVILCORLEY]: So I, I, I see your point.
[45:13.060 --> 45:13.460] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[45:13.600 --> 45:14.980] [ALEXURBELS]: The threat is still the same.
[45:15.200 --> 45:16.620] [ALEXURBELS]: It, it absolutely is.
[45:16.820 --> 45:26.480] [ALEXURBELS]: It almost seems like, you know, the, the threat of imminent nuclear war might even be worse if you roll into a NATO nation than another nation, but the other side of this too.
[45:26.620 --> 45:42.420] [ALEXURBELS]: And I, and I promised, you know, two points, if I recall correctly at the outset of my monologue here, and the other flip side of this is that it makes the acquisition of nuclear weapons that much more attractive for nations that probably shouldn't have nuclear weapons in the first place.
[45:43.100 --> 45:57.780] [ALEXURBELS]: Countries like North Korea, Iran, maybe the Central African Republic wants to have a nuclear arsenal next because it sees how much power Russia has, and it can have and wield that same power on its neighbors with just a couple of nuclear warheads.
[45:59.340 --> 46:07.740] [EVILCORLEY]: We have another letter, uh, from Charlie who says, um, um, I get the, uh, Cuba question on the re-entry paperwork coming back to the USA.
[46:07.740 --> 46:12.880] [EVILCORLEY]: We were talking about, uh, going to North Korea last week, uh, talking about Virgil's case.
[46:13.440 --> 46:23.100] [EVILCORLEY]: Um, and, uh, Charlie says, uh, they basically ask something like if, what countries have you been to since you left the country, I think it's a crime to lie on this form.
[46:23.600 --> 46:24.420] [EVILCORLEY]: And Charlie, you're right.
[46:24.520 --> 46:25.980] [EVILCORLEY]: It is a crime to lie in that form.
[46:26.100 --> 46:39.100] [EVILCORLEY]: But, uh, again, the point was that you can go to North Korea and, uh, there is no actual record of it because, well, North Korea authorities certainly don't tell the state department and they don't, uh, stamp your passport.
[46:39.700 --> 46:43.380] [EVILCORLEY]: So yes, you're lying, but you get away with it unless you get caught.
[46:43.620 --> 46:44.740] [EVILCORLEY]: That's, that's my point.
[46:44.740 --> 46:53.400] [EVILCORLEY]: And I, I'm not, I'm not advising people do that, but I'm saying it is possible to go there and, um, and, and, and lie about it and get away with it.
[46:54.120 --> 46:54.600] [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[46:54.760 --> 47:11.080] [KYLEDROSDK]: And lying, uh, on the document, uh, would be putting down a country that you didn't go to or that you, um, uh, uh, uh, did, uh, did travel to and didn't have, uh, permission to, but it's on the paper, but just not putting it down.
[47:11.080 --> 47:17.060] [EVILCORLEY]: But the thing is the same thing in, in, in the United States, we're used to not having to ask permission to go to other countries.
[47:17.320 --> 47:17.500] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[47:17.620 --> 47:19.680] [EVILCORLEY]: That's, that's what I have a problem with.
[47:20.100 --> 47:37.260] [EVILCORLEY]: So, um, you know, yeah, I, I, I, I wouldn't lie in the forum, but I also wouldn't, uh, take much stock in somebody saying you're not allowed to visit this country because I told you not to, uh, that's, that's not how I view what this country is supposed to be.
[47:37.260 --> 47:59.000] [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, I think specifically for, uh, traveling for your, for pleasure and your own edification and, uh, experiencing the world, something as a, uh, something you enjoy doing, like a vocation of, of joy that, that shouldn't be disrupted your, your, uh, um,
[47:59.660 --> 48:04.720] [KYLEDROSDK]: curiosity and, and, um, desire to go and see, uh, far flung places.
[48:04.720 --> 48:12.400] [EVILCORLEY]: I've left out countries though on that forum because, um, I've run out of space because they only give you, I think, two lines and I try to cram in as many as possible.
[48:12.440 --> 48:19.920] [EVILCORLEY]: But if you're going through, uh, you know, a bunch of countries in Europe or they're small countries, you could easily, uh, uh, fill those two lines very quickly.
[48:20.300 --> 48:25.320] [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, and then what, are you guilty of a crime because you didn't include everything and they don't really care that much.
[48:25.460 --> 48:25.780] [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[48:25.840 --> 48:31.340] [KYLEDROSDK]: It's, it's gotta be the greatest hits, the greatest hits that, that, you know, they want to see.
[48:34.720 --> 48:45.060] [EVILCORLEY]: They were sentenced to five years in prison last year, uh, last week, um, for visiting North Korea and supposedly helping them try and figure out how to bypass sanctions.
[48:45.340 --> 48:52.060] [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, Alex, any update on, on Virgil's condition or, um, uh, potential for him being transferred to someplace a bit more humane?
[48:52.920 --> 49:09.100] [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, well, I, I will say this that, um, you know, I won't divulge the contents of what I spoke to Virgil about, but I did speak with Virgil earlier this week and he, uh, wanted me to send his love and support to everybody that has been there for him and that has been following his case.
[49:09.360 --> 49:19.020] [ALEXURBELS]: And, and I think it, it does make a, a, a great difference to him to know that there are so many that care about him, uh, out there that are, that are part of the community.
[49:19.640 --> 49:23.340] [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, in update, he, he's still over in Brooklyn.
[49:23.520 --> 49:29.540] [ALEXURBELS]: It seems like it'll probably be a couple of weeks until he is, uh, hopefully moved over to Pennsylvania.
[49:30.400 --> 49:37.860] [ALEXURBELS]: But, um, I will say, despite it all, he, uh, was in decent spirits and, um, and wanted me to relay that message.
[49:39.200 --> 49:39.600] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[49:39.820 --> 49:40.620] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, thanks for that.
[49:40.720 --> 49:47.260] [EVILCORLEY]: And it's good to, uh, good to hear that he's doing as well as he could do in such horrible situations.
[49:48.100 --> 49:51.620] [EVILCORLEY]: Um, yeah, I'm sorry.
[49:51.760 --> 49:52.860] [EVILCORLEY]: I've ran out of things to say.
[49:52.860 --> 50:02.860] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm still struggling with, uh, with, um, finding words and things like that in the middle of COVID conjugation and syntax.
[50:03.740 --> 50:04.740] [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, no, I feel the same way.
[50:04.840 --> 50:08.320] [KYLEDROSDK]: A little, um, middle of the week fog.
[50:08.640 --> 50:16.840] [EVILCORLEY]: This room feels hot and, uh, I'm achy and, uh, it's just, it's, it's too much being in isolation for five days.
[50:17.040 --> 50:28.920] [EVILCORLEY]: I got to tell you, that's that, that messes with your head, you know, talking about what Virgil has gone through, I can't even imagine the strength that he has shown to get through the, the, the horror, uh, of, of truly being confined.
[50:29.120 --> 50:34.640] [EVILCORLEY]: I was confined in my own house to a section of my own house and it drove me crazy after a few days.
[50:35.200 --> 50:42.300] [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, the, the time where I was, um, uh, uh, jailed at the RNC in 2004, that was only, uh, two, three days.
[50:42.900 --> 50:45.140] [EVILCORLEY]: It's still messed with my head for years to come.
[50:45.740 --> 50:46.500] [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Alex.
[50:47.060 --> 50:47.500] [EVILCORLEY]: Alex.
[50:47.500 --> 51:01.120] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, and, and he's been through a hell of a lot just in terms of, you know, contracting COVID himself and then the facility being on, on such, uh, rigid and strict guidelines for, for the lockdown is, you know, absolutely crazy.
[51:01.400 --> 51:20.180] [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, one thing that we could transition to while we're on the subject of, of Russian rogue regimes is that there was this recently discovered set of malicious tools and malware that is believed to have come from some kind of state-sponsored actor that allows that actor to target critical infrastructure and,
[51:20.180 --> 51:25.020] [ALEXURBELS]: and could very well allow that, that threat actor to target critical infrastructure in the United States.
[51:25.280 --> 51:42.380] [ALEXURBELS]: The, the identification of this malware during the, the invasion of Ukraine and the Ukraine crisis makes it really look a lot like the malware, which is known as pipe dream originates from Russia, but there's been a, uh, a massive advisory from the federal government that comes from,
[51:42.500 --> 52:05.760] [ALEXURBELS]: uh, department of energy from CISA, which is cyber security and infrastructure security agency, the national security agency, FBI, that there is this APT or advanced persistent threat out there that has exhibited in a, an advanced capability to gain system access to industrial control systems of energy companies and liquefied natural gas companies in particular.
[52:06.100 --> 52:10.760] [ALEXURBELS]: And a lot of this is, uh, targeting something called Schneider electric devices.
[52:11.020 --> 52:23.580] [ALEXURBELS]: Some of what the, the, some of the capabilities of this malware include the ability to send custom mod bus commands, um, over to these individual devices, crashing these devices.
[52:23.780 --> 52:29.280] [ALEXURBELS]: So there is, uh, uh, I think a very real danger out there facing our energy infrastructure right now.
[52:29.980 --> 52:41.740] [ALEXURBELS]: And, um, hopefully, you know, many of those companies are, and I know they are working very hard to remediate and patch this, but as things ratchet up in Russia, this is a very real concern for us.
[52:42.060 --> 52:45.860] [EVILCORLEY]: All right, we're going to have to leave it there because we are out of time.
[52:46.080 --> 52:47.660] [EVILCORLEY]: Amazing how the hour flew by.
[52:47.940 --> 52:49.740] [KYLEDROSDK]: Secure your industrial controls.
[52:49.740 --> 52:51.940] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, that's, uh, you learned that in grade one.
[52:52.740 --> 52:54.940] [EVILCORLEY]: Um, we are not doing overtime tonight.
[52:55.100 --> 52:55.700] [EVILCORLEY]: We can't do it.
[52:56.120 --> 53:03.240] [EVILCORLEY]: It's just not physically possible, but, um, we'll be back in two weeks with, uh, off the hook at seven, Off The Hook Overtime at eight on YouTube.
[53:03.700 --> 53:07.580] [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, you can write to us, oth@2600.com.
[53:07.740 --> 53:12.000] [EVILCORLEY]: Hopefully by then, Kyle and I will be over the COVID and, uh, onto better things.
[53:12.640 --> 53:17.620] [EVILCORLEY]: In the meantime, please keep your eyes open, keep fighting for justice.
[53:18.340 --> 53:19.740] [EVILCORLEY]: It, it matters.
[53:19.900 --> 53:20.600] [EVILCORLEY]: It really matters.
[53:20.880 --> 53:22.660] [EVILCORLEY]: Um, your opinion matters.
[53:23.360 --> 53:28.520] [EVILCORLEY]: And, um, what we do as individuals and as a collective matters so much.
[53:28.960 --> 53:30.100] [EVILCORLEY]: Hey, hey, rise up.
[53:30.280 --> 53:30.680] [EVILCORLEY]: Good night.