Off The Hook - 2022-05-11

[00:00.000 --> 00:10.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, but with that said, the previous program is Economic Update with Richard Wolff, heard Wednesdays at 6.30 p.m.
[00:10.380 --> 00:12.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: right after the WBAI Evening News.
[00:13.120 --> 00:14.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Stay tuned for Off The Hook.
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[00:38.320 --> 00:39.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're sorry.
[00:39.580 --> 00:45.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: The number you have reached, 99.5 WBAI, is now Off The Hook.
[02:30.480 --> 02:32.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:32.560 --> 02:33.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: The program is Off The Hook.
[02:34.460 --> 02:38.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Kyle.
[02:38.260 --> 02:38.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Kyle.
[02:38.680 --> 02:39.080]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yes.
[02:39.400 --> 02:40.640]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Coming in loud and clear.
[02:40.900 --> 02:41.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, we are.
[02:41.940 --> 02:44.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: And over in Skype-land, we have Gila.
[02:45.520 --> 02:45.920]  [GILADRAZEN]: Hello!
[02:46.220 --> 02:47.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: Looking at your phone.
[02:48.840 --> 02:49.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: And Rob T. Firefly.
[02:51.020 --> 02:51.420]  [ROBVINCENT]: Hello.
[02:51.640 --> 02:52.280]  [ROBVINCENT]: Gila, give me your phone.
[02:52.280 --> 02:52.720]  [ROBVINCENT]: It's my turn.
[02:54.380 --> 02:56.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: And not on a train this week is Alex.
[02:58.460 --> 02:59.140]  [ALEXURBELS]: Good evening.
[02:59.300 --> 03:00.780]  [ALEXURBELS]: Hopefully coming in a little bit clearer.
[03:00.900 --> 03:02.080]  [ALEXURBELS]: We can hear you this week.
[03:02.080 --> 03:04.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: What a marvelous turn of events that is.
[03:05.760 --> 03:14.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, Alex, I take it when you were on that train heading back from Washington, D.C., you were actually finishing up protesting outside the homes of various Supreme Court justices.
[03:15.500 --> 03:16.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: Am I reading you right?
[03:17.860 --> 03:20.400]  [ALEXURBELS]: No, as a matter of fact, I was not.
[03:20.800 --> 03:22.760]  [ALEXURBELS]: That wasn't on my agenda for that.
[03:22.760 --> 03:24.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: Golden opportunity right there, you know?
[03:25.420 --> 03:28.400]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, I would imagine that most of them don't live in D.C.
[03:28.540 --> 03:29.200]  [ALEXURBELS]: proper anyhow.
[03:29.240 --> 03:30.880]  [ALEXURBELS]: I'm not sure about that.
[03:31.020 --> 03:31.760]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, maybe they do.
[03:31.760 --> 03:36.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: They live in Cherry Chase, Maryland, Alexandria, Virginia.
[03:36.680 --> 03:38.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you know, I can give you the addresses later.
[03:38.220 --> 03:38.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's not a problem.
[03:39.480 --> 03:41.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: And you could book your next ticket down there.
[03:41.800 --> 03:45.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: But no, you know, I was actually, I was talking to a bunch of people who were part of that.
[03:45.460 --> 03:48.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, the Republicans are going nuts about this.
[03:49.120 --> 03:52.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: They're saying that these people, why aren't they being arrested?
[03:52.660 --> 03:54.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: It turns out there's a law.
[03:54.240 --> 03:58.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's a law against protesting outside a judge's home.
[03:58.360 --> 03:59.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: Did you know about this, Alex?
[03:59.300 --> 04:01.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: Alex, as a lawyer, you should know about this.
[04:01.420 --> 04:09.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because I'm sure many times you've been tempted to just get a couple of picket signs and go outside a judge's house after they rule against one of your cases.
[04:10.280 --> 04:10.640]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[04:10.860 --> 04:13.680]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, that so rarely happens that I get ruled against.
[04:13.960 --> 04:14.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[04:14.500 --> 04:15.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you might want to get used to it.
[04:15.940 --> 04:18.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, we have some dark days ahead from what I'm led to believe.
[04:19.280 --> 04:19.820]  [ALEXURBELS]: No doubt.
[04:19.920 --> 04:21.400]  [ALEXURBELS]: No, in all fairness, yeah.
[04:22.960 --> 04:28.180]  [ALEXURBELS]: It would sound somewhat appealing, given the posture of some of my cases several years ago.
[04:28.180 --> 04:31.120]  [ALEXURBELS]: But, yeah, I was unaware of this law.
[04:31.360 --> 04:32.580]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, Ted, tell us more about it.
[04:32.620 --> 04:36.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's USC 18, subsection 1507.
[04:36.440 --> 04:37.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: You'd do well to read it.
[04:38.000 --> 04:53.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: Whoever with the intent of interfering with, obstructing, or impeding the administration of justice, or with the intent of influencing any judge, juror, witness, or court officer in the discharge of his duty, pickets or parades in or near a building housing a court of the United States,
[04:58.180 --> 05:03.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: or court officer, or with such intent, uses any sound truck...
[05:03.160 --> 05:15.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know why they picked that, sound truck, or similar device or resorts to any other demonstration in or near any such building or residence, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned, not more than one year or both.
[05:15.960 --> 05:16.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's the law.
[05:17.780 --> 05:19.000]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, it's interesting.
[05:19.000 --> 05:26.260]  [ALEXURBELS]: It seems like it's tied to the intent to influence a judge's opinion, one way or the other, in an active case.
[05:26.460 --> 05:27.700]  [ALEXURBELS]: Isn't that what you do every day in court?
[05:28.700 --> 05:31.120]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yes, that's exactly what we do every day in court.
[05:31.280 --> 05:31.380]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[05:31.860 --> 05:32.100]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[05:32.300 --> 05:36.700]  [ALEXURBELS]: But it also reminds me of way back when...
[05:36.700 --> 05:47.380]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, God, I don't even remember what year this was, but it was probably before 2000, when we held a protest outside the U.S.
[05:47.560 --> 05:50.000]  [ALEXURBELS]: Federal District Court, the Southern District of New York...
[05:50.000 --> 05:50.800]  [ALEXURBELS]: Oh, my God, you're right.
[05:50.800 --> 05:51.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: We did that.
[05:51.800 --> 05:53.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: We demonstrated outside a courthouse.
[05:54.260 --> 05:54.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's right.
[05:55.120 --> 05:56.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: That was in what...
[05:56.860 --> 05:57.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: What year was that?
[05:57.680 --> 05:57.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: Do you remember?
[05:59.060 --> 05:59.760]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's what I was saying.
[05:59.800 --> 06:00.300]  [ALEXURBELS]: I don't remember.
[06:00.440 --> 06:01.580]  [ALEXURBELS]: It was a long time ago.
[06:01.580 --> 06:02.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, it was a very long time ago.
[06:02.800 --> 06:04.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: It was last century, wasn't it?
[06:04.120 --> 06:05.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: It was 1990.
[06:05.780 --> 06:07.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: The statute of limitations has to be passed on that.
[06:08.380 --> 06:10.860]  [ALEXURBELS]: Oh, it certainly has, but...
[06:10.860 --> 06:11.320]  [ALEXURBELS]: We're sorry.
[06:12.460 --> 06:16.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're not expressing our opinion in federal buildings or in front of federal buildings.
[06:16.980 --> 06:26.060]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, I don't think that we would have violated that particular statute because there wasn't an active case or controversy before the court in front of which we were demonstrating.
[06:26.240 --> 06:26.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's true.
[06:27.080 --> 06:30.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: Demonstrating for Kevin Mitnick, who was held in a very distant court.
[06:31.380 --> 06:32.040]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's correct.
[06:32.320 --> 06:39.060]  [ALEXURBELS]: So I think that we were okay to be in front of the Southern District when there was a case in front of a separate U.S.
[06:39.160 --> 06:39.880]  [ALEXURBELS]: Federal District Court.
[06:39.880 --> 06:52.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: But, you know, the thing that bothers me about this is that people really buy into the fear factor and say that, oh, my God, this is against the federal law to be outside someone's house chanting.
[06:53.200 --> 06:54.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: And you know what?
[06:54.160 --> 06:54.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: It might be.
[06:54.780 --> 06:57.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: This law seems to make it seem that way.
[06:57.120 --> 07:02.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: It seems to make it seem like if you're anywhere where there's a judge, you could be violating the law.
[07:03.480 --> 07:05.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I say, so what?
[07:05.400 --> 07:16.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, at a time like this where the Constitution is being dismantled, where you're having rights for the first time taken away by a Supreme Court, it's time to get angry.
[07:16.640 --> 07:17.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's time to act.
[07:17.680 --> 07:20.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's time to say, I'm going to express myself.
[07:20.520 --> 07:21.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: Law be damned.
[07:21.260 --> 07:24.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: If that's the kind of law that exists now, then the law is wrong, too.
[07:25.320 --> 07:42.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: There are people outside the homes of those justices that are apparently intent on dismantling Roe versus Wade and throwing the country back half a century, at least, and just making life hell for so many people.
[07:42.380 --> 07:44.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: And no, I don't think we should stay quiet for that.
[07:44.340 --> 07:45.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: Of course, we should vote.
[07:45.160 --> 07:48.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: Of course, we should change things down the road.
[07:48.240 --> 07:53.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: But you see, you know, if we just rely on our elected officials, you get more of what happened today in the Senate.
[07:53.660 --> 07:55.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: where absolutely nothing got accomplished.
[07:56.080 --> 08:00.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: Basically, the same old people voted against doing anything of substance.
[08:00.920 --> 08:05.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we just wind up saying, well, Republicans beat us again, even though there is less of them.
[08:06.240 --> 08:08.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, yeah, you know, don't be intimidated.
[08:09.120 --> 08:16.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: If somebody says, let's go to a demonstration outside Clarence Thomas's house, take them up on it.
[08:16.260 --> 08:17.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, be loud, be abrasive.
[08:18.120 --> 08:18.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: Don't be violent.
[08:19.080 --> 08:21.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: Don't be breaking things or vandalizing.
[08:21.520 --> 08:22.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's not what this is about.
[08:22.260 --> 08:23.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's about expressing yourself.
[08:23.920 --> 08:26.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: You should never, ever be afraid to express yourself.
[08:26.580 --> 08:35.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, also, this is kind of funny because I was helping people basically find houses because, you know, it's kind of a detective work sort of a thing.
[08:35.600 --> 08:36.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not hard.
[08:36.400 --> 08:43.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not that hard because there's always information somewhere online linking people to certain places.
[08:43.720 --> 08:57.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: But the thing that got me, the thing that was really, really funny about this, the way to confirm where Supreme Court justice lives, let's say you have the street or the neighborhood, you just go on Google Maps and you move around a little bit and you keep looking at the houses.
[08:57.560 --> 09:02.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: And when you get the house that's all blurred out, that's their house every time.
[09:02.960 --> 09:04.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's simply incredible.
[09:04.680 --> 09:17.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: Another time, once I got the address, I just plugged the address into the Internet and I got a nice Zillow video, a tour of their entire home inside and out, just left online.
[09:17.940 --> 09:23.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: And the great thing is, at the end, there was a realtor who was narrating.
[09:23.080 --> 09:27.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: He said, if you're excited seeing this online, you'll be thrilled when you see it in person.
[09:27.400 --> 09:29.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: If that's not an invitation, I don't know what is.
[09:31.520 --> 09:37.520]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, look, I think, you know, I don't think we should advocate for people breaking.
[09:37.600 --> 09:40.340]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think, you know, to play devil's advocate here, too.
[09:40.500 --> 09:47.300]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, as a lawyer, judges really are supposed to restrict themselves to the consideration of things that are part of the record.
[09:47.940 --> 09:51.220]  [ALEXURBELS]: The testimony, the evidence that the parties adduce, things like that.
[09:52.020 --> 10:02.480]  [ALEXURBELS]: And this law seems to be designed to try to insulate the judiciary, in particular the federal judiciary, from undue influence outside of the record.
[10:02.680 --> 10:09.800]  [ALEXURBELS]: Meaning, you know, people going and shouting things or presenting evidence that might be hearsay or evidence that might be inadmissible in court.
[10:10.020 --> 10:14.520]  [ALEXURBELS]: And so you have these very, very strict rules of evidence about what a judge can and cannot consider.
[10:14.520 --> 10:17.620]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I think that this law actually does serve a purpose.
[10:17.620 --> 10:23.980]  [ALEXURBELS]: So that if we start saying things like you did, Emmanuel, you know, in times like these, we should begin ignoring the law.
[10:24.220 --> 10:26.160]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think you're just inviting anarchy.
[10:26.460 --> 10:30.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: We should ignore those laws that work against us and are unfair.
[10:31.220 --> 10:37.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, every fascist society of every era always had the law behind them.
[10:37.760 --> 10:39.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: They always were able to point to that.
[10:39.740 --> 10:54.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, 12 Years a Slave, watching that movie, you realize how the slaveholders always pointed to the law to say, I'm within my rights to have this person bound and enslaved indefinitely.
[10:54.320 --> 10:57.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, yeah, the law is often flawed.
[10:57.700 --> 10:59.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: And when it is, you have to challenge it.
[10:59.280 --> 11:00.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: You don't simply blindly obey.
[11:01.620 --> 11:08.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, I think maybe because of the magnitude of what has happened here, people will see that.
[11:08.460 --> 11:15.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: And they'll realize that there are, you know, values and then there are laws that thwart those values.
[11:16.720 --> 11:19.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: And in times like that, you have to speak up.
[11:19.420 --> 11:20.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: You have to be loud.
[11:20.580 --> 11:21.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: You have to be out there.
[11:21.420 --> 11:26.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: But at the same time, you know, your values dictate that you don't hurt people.
[11:26.620 --> 11:27.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: You don't break things.
[11:27.640 --> 11:29.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: You don't break into people's homes or anything like that.
[11:29.820 --> 11:31.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not what anyone I know is advocating.
[11:32.220 --> 11:34.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: But certainly, how do you express yourself otherwise?
[11:35.340 --> 11:36.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: What's left?
[11:36.220 --> 11:37.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: It really becomes frustrating.
[11:38.620 --> 11:43.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that's a very unhealthy society if you're not able to speak freely.
[11:43.420 --> 11:46.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's Vladimir Putin society, and I certainly don't want that here.
[11:47.620 --> 11:48.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Rob, looks like you have something to say.
[11:50.000 --> 12:00.460]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah, just one point that I've seen made a number of different ways by a lot of people out there is the very fact that the people in power are telling you, no, you're protesting the wrong way.
[12:00.720 --> 12:05.020]  [ROBVINCENT]: That in itself, I think, is a pretty solid sign that you're protesting in exactly the right way.
[12:05.120 --> 12:07.440]  [ROBVINCENT]: You're protesting in the way that gets their attention.
[12:07.740 --> 12:11.940]  [ROBVINCENT]: That, you know, you don't want to quietly just, are you comfortable with this?
[12:11.940 --> 12:13.260]  [ROBVINCENT]: I'm going to just protest you now?
[12:13.400 --> 12:13.520]  [ROBVINCENT]: Okay.
[12:13.960 --> 12:20.420]  [ROBVINCENT]: No, I think this is a sign that the protests are having an effect, are being heard.
[12:21.820 --> 12:32.100]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, look, and to that point, I think, you know, civil disobedience is a long and very storied history in this country, you know, especially with respect to things like the civil rights movement.
[12:32.220 --> 12:37.140]  [ALEXURBELS]: We wouldn't be here if people were not ignoring the law and flaunting the law and disobeying the law.
[12:37.140 --> 12:41.480]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, you even go back to, you know, the union minor strikes.
[12:41.780 --> 12:52.540]  [ALEXURBELS]: You know, people like Utah Phillips would remind us that, you know, the reason why we have eight-hour days and laws busting sweatshops and busting child labor, these weren't benevolent gifts from enlightened management.
[12:52.540 --> 12:56.120]  [ALEXURBELS]: They were fought for, bled for, died for on illegal picket lines.
[12:56.120 --> 13:07.200]  [ALEXURBELS]: And so I agree with all of what you're saying, but I think as part of civil disobedience, you know, there is the component of punishment and that breaking the law comes with a penalty.
[13:07.400 --> 13:15.320]  [ALEXURBELS]: And when you disobey the law like that, even in a civil way, part of that protest is to accept the punishment that's meted out.
[13:15.560 --> 13:16.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, but we're already living the punishment.
[13:17.100 --> 13:18.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's the thing that people are protesting.
[13:18.900 --> 13:35.800]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, and to some degree, these laws are giving the current court a lot of shelter in a moment when the application isn't necessarily with what the majority has in mind for society.
[13:35.820 --> 13:39.900]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And they do have a right to redress their grievances and so forth.
[13:42.080 --> 13:51.200]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And knowing the law, you can work sort of around the strictures of it in whatever kind of action you feel you're going to take.
[13:51.300 --> 13:59.940]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And we all know that laws themselves are interpreted by the public actually sort of along a continuum.
[14:00.220 --> 14:04.920]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I mean, most people follow them in sort of the common, widely interpreted way.
[14:04.920 --> 14:17.980]  [KYLEDROSDK]: But instances like crossing against a pedestrian signal, there are signals and laws and technical things that we don't necessarily always abide by.
[14:17.980 --> 14:36.000]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And in this case, there is power being exercised against the will of many people with lots of grievances to redress and give shelter to that process of them voicing that.
[14:37.240 --> 14:48.000]  [KYLEDROSDK]: There may be people that are going to want to work out around the strictures of that law and perhaps in moments outside a little bit to get the point across, right?
[14:48.200 --> 14:50.620]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And so that's what I'm seeing and hearing in this.
[14:50.780 --> 15:04.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I think, you know, when you see on the right-wing media this law being trotted out, it means that the people showing up and protesting, holding signs, chanting, it's scaring them.
[15:04.160 --> 15:05.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's scaring them a lot.
[15:05.200 --> 15:12.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: So they have to find something that's really never been enforced before to try and scare people away from doing this in the first place.
[15:13.020 --> 15:22.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because, you know, unlike what we're constantly being told, and we're told this from people on our side and on other sides, that our voices mean nothing.
[15:23.080 --> 15:27.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, the people that we agree with who tell us that, they're frustrated.
[15:27.260 --> 15:29.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: They don't believe that it's ever going to work.
[15:29.440 --> 15:30.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: They've been out on the streets so many times.
[15:31.040 --> 15:33.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: They voted, and still nothing seems to change.
[15:33.820 --> 15:37.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: So that's why they believe that doing this is pointless.
[15:37.440 --> 15:46.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: Whereas the people on the other side, they don't want you to do that because you're a threat to their way of life, which they are succeeding in enforcing on the rest of us.
[15:46.780 --> 15:48.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: Either way, you can't listen to that.
[15:49.120 --> 15:55.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: Listen to yourself and do what feels right and use the values that you hold dear.
[15:57.200 --> 15:59.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I think that's the best way forward.
[16:00.020 --> 16:00.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: Gila.
[16:02.940 --> 16:03.540]  [GILADRAZEN]: Thank you.
[16:03.820 --> 16:16.080]  [GILADRAZEN]: I just want to throw this out there very quickly, which is if you have a voice and you want to use it, there are actions, there are protests that are planned this weekend all across the country.
[16:16.580 --> 16:18.380]  [GILADRAZEN]: Find the one in your local area.
[16:18.560 --> 16:19.300]  [GILADRAZEN]: Get out there.
[16:19.520 --> 16:20.480]  [GILADRAZEN]: Make some noise.
[16:20.760 --> 16:21.880]  [GILADRAZEN]: There are protests this weekend.
[16:22.080 --> 16:25.240]  [GILADRAZEN]: There's a massive thing happening in Washington next week.
[16:25.760 --> 16:26.620]  [GILADRAZEN]: Find out.
[16:26.800 --> 16:27.900]  [GILADRAZEN]: Be heard.
[16:28.320 --> 16:29.220]  [GILADRAZEN]: Be part of this.
[16:29.380 --> 16:31.200]  [GILADRAZEN]: Don't sit and be silent and stew.
[16:31.600 --> 16:32.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now, do you have the website?
[16:33.140 --> 16:34.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: If you don't, we'll find it.
[16:34.760 --> 16:36.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because we were talking about this last night as well.
[16:36.420 --> 16:39.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's, I think, Planned Parenthood Action or something like that?
[16:39.260 --> 16:40.160]  [GILADRAZEN]: It's Planned Parenthood Action.
[16:40.360 --> 16:40.540]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yes.
[16:40.720 --> 16:44.740]  [GILADRAZEN]: And they will actually, if you go there, they will direct you to your local event.
[16:45.040 --> 16:56.840]  [GILADRAZEN]: For those people who are in the New York City area, which is probably everybody who's listening to us right now, the event is starting in Cadman Plaza, going to march over the Brooklyn Bridge and finish at Foley Square.
[16:57.900 --> 16:58.820]  [GILADRAZEN]: Join us at noon.
[16:58.980 --> 17:05.420]  [GILADRAZEN]: Go to plannedparenthoodaction.org to find your local information all weekend, this weekend, all over the country.
[17:05.560 --> 17:09.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: And when I looked at the site, there's a little dialogue box for you to enter your ZIP Code.
[17:09.840 --> 17:11.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: It didn't say ZIP Code, but I figured it out.
[17:11.960 --> 17:16.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: But enter your ZIP Code there, and it'll tell you where the nearest demonstration is.
[17:17.100 --> 17:20.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, Gila, you mentioned something is happening next week nationwide.
[17:20.200 --> 17:21.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's not this week, right?
[17:21.520 --> 17:21.960]  [GILADRAZEN]: Not nationwide.
[17:22.740 --> 17:27.060]  [GILADRAZEN]: There's actually something happening a week from yesterday, next Tuesday, in Washington.
[17:27.740 --> 17:29.800]  [GILADRAZEN]: Actually, mostly focused on the jewish community.
[17:30.000 --> 17:33.940]  [GILADRAZEN]: But in Washington, sponsored by National Council of Jewish Women, among other organizations.
[17:33.940 --> 17:36.260]  [GILADRAZEN]: You can find out more at ncjw.org.
[17:38.180 --> 17:42.860]  [GILADRAZEN]: I know of at least one chartered bus that's going from New York to Washington for this event next week.
[17:43.140 --> 17:53.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: And keep listening to WBAI, because we are your source for information about this and all sorts of other activities that are going on related to this and so many other things that are happening.
[17:53.740 --> 17:56.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: WBAI is really a tremendous source for that.
[17:56.820 --> 17:59.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: And by the way, I should point out, please help support us.
[17:59.460 --> 18:04.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: Keep us on the air, because we don't have commercials, and we piss off a lot of powerful people.
[18:04.600 --> 18:07.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: And they're constantly trying to shut us down, constantly.
[18:09.800 --> 18:10.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: give2wbai.org.
[18:10.760 --> 18:12.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's give2wbai.org.
[18:13.200 --> 18:16.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: Or you can call 212-209-2950.
[18:16.100 --> 18:20.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: And if there are people there, just say, I want to pledge a certain amount.
[18:20.600 --> 18:23.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: And they'll find a thank you gift that's appropriate for that amount.
[18:24.620 --> 18:25.740]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Stay plugged in.
[18:25.920 --> 18:26.920]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Stay invigorated.
[18:26.920 --> 18:38.860]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And thanks for sharing that information, Gila, about actions and everybody's locality and, of course, the information you had about laws.
[18:39.100 --> 18:40.560]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And, you know, know the risks.
[18:40.860 --> 18:41.780]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Stay safe out there.
[18:42.080 --> 18:49.080]  [KYLEDROSDK]: But don't wait or feel like you're alone.
[18:49.080 --> 18:54.400]  [KYLEDROSDK]: There are so many people that have taken immediate notice and are mobilizing.
[18:54.400 --> 18:55.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I think that's important.
[18:55.580 --> 18:57.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: Don't feel like you're alone, because you're not.
[18:58.000 --> 19:05.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: Even if you are physically alone, even if you're in some desolate place on Earth and you feel like no one's with you, we are.
[19:06.040 --> 19:10.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we can get together in all different ways, online, offline.
[19:12.000 --> 19:17.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: The important thing is to act intelligently and to stay true to your own beliefs.
[19:18.220 --> 19:19.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hackers break the rules a lot.
[19:19.720 --> 19:22.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, we get into trouble because of that.
[19:22.380 --> 19:28.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it takes the form of many actions, many experiments.
[19:29.580 --> 19:32.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: Here's one that took place on Monday.
[19:32.780 --> 19:38.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hackers replaced Russian TV schedules during Vladimir Putin's Victory Day Parade.
[19:38.520 --> 19:39.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: You guys watching the Victory Day Parade?
[19:40.840 --> 19:42.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, I missed it.
[19:42.360 --> 19:44.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, it's fabulous.
[19:44.100 --> 19:44.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's worth seeing.
[19:45.220 --> 19:48.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: A lot of tanks, a lot of trucks, a lot of people marching around.
[19:48.540 --> 19:55.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, we talked a bit about this on the other radio show yesterday, but everybody's walking and looking to the right as they walk, you know, looking at the leader.
[19:55.380 --> 19:58.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't understand how they're able to keep walking straight without tripping over each other.
[19:59.020 --> 20:04.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: I certainly don't know how they're able to drive tanks and massive vehicles while staring to the right, which they do.
[20:05.660 --> 20:07.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: Alex, I know you have some military experience.
[20:07.620 --> 20:08.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe you understand how that works.
[20:09.760 --> 20:12.140]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, yeah, something like that.
[20:12.320 --> 20:20.460]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, I find the whole Victory Day thing fascinating, though, because, you know, this was victory over the Nazis we were talking about.
[20:21.300 --> 20:23.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: The original, the OG Nazis, yeah.
[20:24.500 --> 20:26.540]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, I mean, the Nazis, right?
[20:26.640 --> 20:28.960]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, not neo-Nazis, not anything like that.
[20:29.740 --> 20:58.220]  [ALEXURBELS]: And so you have this almost co-opting of Victory Day over the last several years with Vladimir Putin and becoming more and more militaristic, more jingoistic, more about these external threats that are facing Russia, you know, and revisiting this whole notion of the threat of Nazis that they've then misused used and abused through misinformation,
[20:58.620 --> 21:06.380]  [ALEXURBELS]: propaganda, censorship, and a strict enforcement regime domestically to justify the war in Ukraine.
[21:07.440 --> 21:09.560]  [ALEXURBELS]: And it is really, really unfortunate.
[21:09.720 --> 21:27.040]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I think it was a... I don't remember who it was from the UK, but one of the ministers from the United Kingdom had called it out and said, you know, it's really unfortunate because, you know, Russia and the Soviet Union, in fact, you know, held this really important place in helping to defeat the Nazis.
[21:27.320 --> 21:31.960]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, it was they who were instrumental and critical to the fall of the Nazi regime.
[21:32.080 --> 21:32.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's true.
[21:32.640 --> 21:43.320]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yet they themselves are committing these atrocities that are going to tarnish and stain forever that historical mark that they left on the world with the defeat of the Nazis.
[21:43.460 --> 21:50.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: The amount of people that Russia lost or the Soviet Union at the time lost during World War II, I think it's something like 20 million.
[21:50.940 --> 21:52.660]  [ALEXURBELS]: 27 million.
[21:53.180 --> 21:54.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: Unfathomable for us.
[21:54.780 --> 22:09.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, at that time, not that I was around for it, but at that time, there was a certain camaraderie between Americans and Soviets at that moment where the war was over because of our combined efforts.
[22:10.520 --> 22:17.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, yeah, a lot of that has been lost, forgotten, tarnished, and, you know, on both sides, too.
[22:17.500 --> 22:23.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, what Russia is doing is absolutely terrible at the moment, but our hands are not clean by any stretch.
[22:24.160 --> 22:34.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: Anyway, to get to what happened on Monday, yes, a Russian television schedules were hacked to display an anti-war message as the country celebrated the National Military Festival.
[22:35.940 --> 22:39.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: On-screen program descriptions, we all have those now.
[22:39.540 --> 22:45.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: They were replaced with the hacker's text when viewed on smart TVs.
[22:45.760 --> 22:47.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: How do we do this, folks?
[22:47.120 --> 22:48.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: I really would love to be able to do that here.
[22:49.920 --> 22:53.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: We'd probably be in prison for life, but still, it's a worthy hack.
[22:53.480 --> 22:59.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: According to BBC Monitoring, that sounds very Orwellian, doesn't it?
[22:59.660 --> 23:02.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I guess BBC is out there, and they're just watching what we're doing.
[23:03.300 --> 23:09.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: The message read, On your hands is the blood of thousands of Ukrainians and their hundreds of murdered children.
[23:10.100 --> 23:12.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: TV and the authorities are lying.
[23:12.840 --> 23:13.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: No to war.
[23:14.660 --> 23:17.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: That is the most magnificent statement.
[23:17.840 --> 23:26.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: And yes, I'm sure it violates all sorts of laws, but I am very happy that somebody had the courage to do that, and very thankful.
[23:27.240 --> 23:34.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Major channels such as Russia One, Channel One, and NTV Plus were changed.
[23:36.040 --> 23:51.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: Francis Skarr, who works for BBC Monitoring, which is defined here, the branch of the BBC that follows mass media worldwide, and they tweeted a short video of a screen showing the TV schedules on which every program showed the same description.
[23:52.160 --> 24:01.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: The hack came during Russia's Victory Day celebrations, which is a national holiday and military parade overseen by Vladimir Putin, which was being televised all throughout Russia.
[24:02.560 --> 24:08.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: As we mentioned, the annual event celebrates the Soviet Union's victory alongside allied forces over Nazi Germany in 1945.
[24:10.380 --> 24:21.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: Under a near blackout of independent media and social media platforms, which exist today, most Russian viewers can access only Kremlin-controlled messaging about the conflict in Ukraine.
[24:22.340 --> 24:31.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: The message in Monday's hack runs deeply counter to Putin's claims that his forces are in Ukraine to, quote-unquote, liberate Russian-speaking Ukrainians.
[24:32.620 --> 24:44.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's unclear who was behind the alteration of the schedules on Monday, but the hacker group, Anonymous, retweeted a message saying, good morning, Moscow, within hours of the hack.
[24:44.400 --> 24:53.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, yeah, not really an organized group, just a lot of people pulling resources and accomplishing incredible things.
[24:53.060 --> 25:00.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: And then you have Anonymous NB-6-5, their affiliated network battalion, NB-6-5.
[25:01.160 --> 25:13.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: They allegedly targeted a Russian payment processing platform known as Qiwi, Q-I-W-I, and leaked 7 million payment cards as proof of a hack.
[25:13.680 --> 25:23.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: This happened on May 1st, and they're defined by this story in hackread.com as one of the anonymous affiliate hacktivist groups.
[25:23.300 --> 25:30.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: They published a tweet in which they claimed to have gained access to Qiwi's databases for Operation Op Russia.
[25:31.280 --> 25:39.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: For further information, Qiwi is a Russian giant that provides...
[25:39.940 --> 25:46.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: a giant company, I imagine, that provides payment and financial services in Russia and the Commonwealth Independent States.
[25:46.960 --> 25:49.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: Those are countries that were former Soviet republics.
[25:50.300 --> 26:01.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: NB65 is the same group that hacked Russian state-run television and radio broadcaster VGTRK, which is also known as All Russia State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company.
[26:01.720 --> 26:08.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: That happened back in April, and they also leaked 786 gigabytes worth of data online, something we discussed here.
[26:09.040 --> 26:22.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: As for the attack on Qiwi, NB65 also tweeted that it managed to extract 10.5 terabytes of data, comprising 30 million payment records, and they filtered 12.5 million credit cards of Qiwi customers.
[26:23.220 --> 26:29.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: They also posted a statement revealing that the attack was aimed at disrupting the Russian financial system, in case you couldn't figure that out.
[26:30.320 --> 26:31.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: Here's what they said.
[26:31.340 --> 26:38.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: Qiwi, in your last press release, you clearly stated that the sanctions against the Russian financial system did not affect your business in any way.
[26:38.880 --> 26:44.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, it will definitely affect your business, signed NB65-Anonymous.
[26:44.760 --> 26:48.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: They also stated they encrypted the platform's networks with a ransomware kit.
[26:49.420 --> 26:59.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: Furthermore, the group threatened to release 1 million records every day after the 3-day contract period expires, and the platform fails to reach out to them.
[26:59.060 --> 27:01.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, Qiwi, reach out to NB65.
[27:01.620 --> 27:03.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: They're trying to reach you, and you're not answering.
[27:03.360 --> 27:09.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's important, and you're going to lose a million records every day, and your business will be affected quite a bit.
[27:09.920 --> 27:25.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, I'm not a fan of ransomware or vandalism of this sort, but in certain situations, you go with what you got, and this seems like an effective way to show outrage and kind of mess up the system a bit.
[27:25.920 --> 27:33.160]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, like, in situations where there's persistent action that is really not...
[27:33.160 --> 27:39.440]  [KYLEDROSDK]: that's running undabated, that is not being deterred, and it just basically...
[27:39.920 --> 27:46.840]  [KYLEDROSDK]: it comes down to maybe helping that attacker change their priorities a little bit.
[27:47.180 --> 27:47.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: Mm-hmm.
[27:48.420 --> 27:51.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, if you're good, you can protect yourself against this sort of thing.
[27:52.360 --> 27:53.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: Sounds like they're not that good.
[27:55.180 --> 27:56.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that's how these things happen.
[27:56.720 --> 27:58.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: Of course, it happens in both directions, too.
[27:58.720 --> 28:00.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: The Russian hacking group, Killnet.
[28:01.260 --> 28:08.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow, whatever happened to Fluffy Puppy and, you know, the nice-sounding names that we used to have now is Killnet.
[28:08.800 --> 28:12.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: They threatened to shut down ventilators at British hospitals.
[28:13.740 --> 28:15.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, they don't waste time, do they?
[28:15.460 --> 28:17.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: They're just going to go for the ventilators and shut them down.
[28:17.620 --> 28:22.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: But this is in retaliation for the arrest of an alleged member, so try to stay...
[28:23.160 --> 28:25.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: to catch up here, because this is...
[28:25.820 --> 28:29.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: yeah, this has nothing to do with what I was talking about before.
[28:29.700 --> 28:37.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: A 23-year-old supposed Killnet member was arrested in London on Monday for the attack on Romanian government websites.
[28:37.480 --> 28:38.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: This gets complicated.
[28:39.080 --> 28:46.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: Killnet has reportedly demanded his release and threatened to target life-saving ventilators in British hospitals if their demands aren't met.
[28:47.540 --> 28:53.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: The message said, if he is not released within 48 hours, I will destroy your Romania, Great Britain, and Moldova.
[28:54.540 --> 28:55.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[28:55.560 --> 28:57.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not sure why Moldova got thrown in there.
[28:57.900 --> 29:01.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: I will destroy your entire information structure and even your Ministry of Health.
[29:02.380 --> 29:04.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: All ventilators will be attacked.
[29:04.300 --> 29:07.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: Only then will you begin to realize the mistake you have made.
[29:08.900 --> 29:10.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: Seems pretty serious there.
[29:10.520 --> 29:18.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: The alleged Killnet member was reportedly arrested by National Crime Agency officers alongside officials from Romania.
[29:19.160 --> 29:35.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: That raid took place at an address in Tottenham, North London, go Spurs, where the hacker was detained on suspicion of assisting with Killnet's attacks on the Romanian government and media earlier this week in retaliation for supporting Ukraine in the Russian invasion.
[29:35.360 --> 29:37.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: So it all comes back to Ukraine in the end, I suppose.
[29:37.800 --> 29:47.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: The hacker is reportedly a Putin supporter with Facebook posts emblazoned with Russian flags and the letter Z, which is the invasion symbol that you see on Russian tanks.
[29:48.020 --> 29:52.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, yeah, you know, it's just madness and mayhem out there.
[29:52.680 --> 29:59.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: But what I wonder, and I always come back to this, why are ventilators accessible online in the first place?
[29:59.480 --> 30:00.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: Do they need to be?
[30:00.520 --> 30:07.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: It seems like a fairly simple way to keep them safe is to not have them be able to be hacked in the first place.
[30:08.180 --> 30:14.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, maybe I'm naive, but I just don't see why that needs to be something that the whole world should be able to alter.
[30:16.580 --> 30:17.580]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, that's alarming.
[30:18.240 --> 30:19.780]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Really, truly impressive.
[30:19.780 --> 30:37.720]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And if it is a capability, they're wielding and kind of really trying to get people to take pause and, you know, confront.
[30:38.120 --> 30:40.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: Both Rob and Alex look equally thoughtful.
[30:40.960 --> 30:43.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not sure which one is more thoughtful at the moment.
[30:44.040 --> 30:45.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Rob, let's go to you.
[30:46.460 --> 30:48.480]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah, I'm wondering the same thing.
[30:48.480 --> 30:55.040]  [ROBVINCENT]: I'm wondering, you know, if there's someone at a ventilator company somewhere who had that eureka moment of going, you know what we should do?
[30:55.080 --> 30:56.460]  [ROBVINCENT]: We should put this damn thing on the net.
[30:57.620 --> 30:58.860]  [ROBVINCENT]: That would be a great idea.
[30:58.980 --> 31:00.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: I just don't see the advantage.
[31:00.400 --> 31:04.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, are people not going into work that are, you know, keeping people alive?
[31:04.560 --> 31:06.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: You think you show up in person for that, right?
[31:07.840 --> 31:12.940]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I could see some system that works in conjunction being vulnerable.
[31:13.680 --> 31:14.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Rob.
[31:14.960 --> 31:25.200]  [ROBVINCENT]: I just, you know, Gila, I want to let you know that this is my medical wish that if I ever end up on a ventilator, like, pay extra if you need to to get one that's not Internet controllable.
[31:25.420 --> 31:26.020]  [ROBVINCENT]: Just turn off the Wi-Fi.
[31:26.020 --> 31:27.720]  [GILADRAZEN]: You can do an Internet of things respirator.
[31:28.140 --> 31:29.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: Turn off the Wi-Fi on your respirator.
[31:29.840 --> 31:31.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's, yeah, I think that's a good rule.
[31:31.660 --> 31:32.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Alex.
[31:34.940 --> 31:36.040]  [ALEXURBELS]: Sorry, I was...
[31:36.880 --> 31:37.800]  [ALEXURBELS]: Skype fell there.
[31:37.880 --> 31:38.340]  [ALEXURBELS]: I was on mute.
[31:38.560 --> 31:46.120]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, how else are you going to, you know, remotely monitor your, you know, your battery and breathing rates and all these things?
[31:46.120 --> 31:48.960]  [ALEXURBELS]: Aren't you curious about that when you're not on a ventilator?
[31:49.080 --> 31:49.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: Here's the thing.
[31:49.820 --> 31:51.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: You can monitor things.
[31:51.460 --> 31:56.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, I look out the window and I see the moon rising, but I can't control it.
[31:56.360 --> 31:57.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: I can't change the moon.
[31:57.760 --> 31:58.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: I can notice the moon.
[31:58.780 --> 32:03.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: I can say, hey, there's a nice moon out there and I can call you, Alex, and say, Alex, look out the window.
[32:03.860 --> 32:04.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: Look at the moon.
[32:04.540 --> 32:08.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we can both be looking at the moon, except maybe you have more power over the moon and you can do something.
[32:09.220 --> 32:19.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Similarly, I can call the hospital and say, hey, you know, doctor intern or whatever, can you please change the setting on this since you're there and I'm not?
[32:19.440 --> 32:20.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: I can see it, but I can't change it.
[32:21.320 --> 32:22.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: Simple things like that.
[32:22.600 --> 32:29.120]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, what fun is, you know, life enabling hardware if it doesn't have aged firmware?
[32:30.020 --> 32:30.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're right.
[32:30.800 --> 32:33.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: I take all the fun out of hospitals, I know.
[32:34.100 --> 32:36.220]  [ROBVINCENT]: Well, you know, you know.
[32:37.140 --> 32:45.000]  [ROBVINCENT]: I've worked in multiple places that have, that had like air-gapped intranets where something needed to be networked, but they didn't want it to be accessible from outside.
[32:45.080 --> 32:50.200]  [ROBVINCENT]: So it was just an internal only network and that was, you know, that was just protecting data.
[32:50.380 --> 32:51.740]  [ROBVINCENT]: There were no lungs connected to it.
[32:52.420 --> 32:52.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[32:53.180 --> 32:54.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, it's common sense.
[32:54.880 --> 33:03.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think, you know, we all came up in the BBS era and I think a lot of kids had better security than major hospitals and corporations have today.
[33:04.320 --> 33:05.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I think that continues too.
[33:05.900 --> 33:08.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think a lot of kids running their systems probably have better security.
[33:09.660 --> 33:16.180]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Please, write us at OTH if you know about vulnerabilities like this because I think this is still exaggeration.
[33:16.520 --> 33:17.020]  [KYLEDROSDK]: What were you going to say?
[33:17.060 --> 33:18.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: You didn't finish the email address.
[33:18.720 --> 33:20.280]  [KYLEDROSDK]: oth@2600.com.
[33:20.280 --> 33:20.560]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Sorry.
[33:20.740 --> 33:21.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's important to finish the email address.
[33:22.000 --> 33:22.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Alex.
[33:22.420 --> 33:23.300]  [KYLEDROSDK]: What were you going to say, Alex?
[33:24.200 --> 33:33.260]  [ALEXURBELS]: I have a, you know, maybe I should just write in with this information perhaps, but I have found an article from 2016 here about Philips.
[33:33.420 --> 33:43.960]  [ALEXURBELS]: And there is this trilogy of portable ventilators that are slated to be connected to something called a care orchestrator, which is connected to a care management application.
[33:44.300 --> 33:59.660]  [ALEXURBELS]: And the care orchestrator program appears to be a cloud-connected health app designed to connect informatics and intelligence information for providers, payers, and patients alongside clinical management workflow information.
[34:00.180 --> 34:16.140]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, you know, there's quite a few mouthfuls for you there justifying what was a really horrible idea six years ago, nearly six years ago, it was when they had the idea of putting ventilators on the Internet via cloud-connected apps.
[34:16.780 --> 34:18.300]  [ALEXURBELS]: Even, yeah.
[34:19.320 --> 34:20.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: That is something.
[34:21.140 --> 34:24.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: As if you don't have enough to worry about going on a ventilator in the first place.
[34:24.340 --> 34:26.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: But being hacked shouldn't be one of them.
[34:28.480 --> 34:29.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, okay.
[34:30.260 --> 34:34.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: If you know more things like that, as Kyle said, write to us, oth@2600.com.
[34:35.320 --> 34:36.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: HOPE update.
[34:36.880 --> 34:40.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: Today we announced virtual ticketing.
[34:40.340 --> 34:47.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: You can be an attendee at the conference without coming to the conference if you feel more secure doing that.
[34:47.280 --> 34:53.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I know a lot of people are still a little wary of traveling and wary of being with other people.
[34:53.380 --> 34:54.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: I get it.
[34:54.900 --> 35:02.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: And you might actually be a speaker, too, that feels more comfortable putting in something that is remote.
[35:03.480 --> 35:04.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're in a transitional period.
[35:04.940 --> 35:07.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: I know it's not going to be back to 100%.
[35:09.600 --> 35:11.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's going to be great for those of us who are there.
[35:12.420 --> 35:15.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: I believe it'll be an historic moment.
[35:15.460 --> 35:18.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: It'll be a new location for us at St. John's University.
[35:19.960 --> 35:23.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I don't want to exclude people who can't make it for whatever reason.
[35:24.160 --> 35:34.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: So on our website, just check it out, hope.net and 2600.com there's information on how to participate in various ways virtually as well as in person.
[35:34.680 --> 35:42.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we're going to have a lot more information in the days and weeks ahead with speakers, talks, activities that we're going to be announcing.
[35:42.880 --> 35:44.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's really...
[35:44.200 --> 35:45.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's shaping up.
[35:45.760 --> 35:54.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: Full details at hope.net Now we have this interesting update that we got from a few different people.
[35:55.740 --> 36:12.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: Apparently if if you type the following and and and and and and each and should be a capital A and have a period after the D.
[36:12.880 --> 36:16.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: So five instances of the word and with a capital A and a period at the end.
[36:17.060 --> 36:29.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: If you do that in Google Docs according to this Yahoo article that will completely crash your Google Doc page.
[36:29.460 --> 36:31.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: Apparently it'll crash it permanently too.
[36:32.920 --> 36:33.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[36:34.340 --> 36:40.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: Engadget was able to confirm the issue on a I don't know why the size of the monitor matters.
[36:40.560 --> 37:05.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: A 16 inch 2019 MacBook Pro running Monterey 1231 and Google Chrome 100.0.4896.127 and we were summarily greeted by the something went wrong popover as well as this loathsome cousin unable to load file reloading the file reloading the page as prompted results in the same popovers in effect a death loop.
[37:05.960 --> 37:31.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: Attempts to replicate the issue on Firefox 99.0.1 Isn't it weird that both Firefox and Chrome are at 100 at this point 100 releases on a significantly older and worse MacBook Pro you know maybe it's the Max that's the problem everyone's running Max this one is running Big Sur 11.1 that was not successful but a respondent on the Google support forums claims to have experienced the same problem on
[37:31.360 --> 37:34.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: the same version of Firefox so what exactly is
[38:00.400 --> 38:01.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: It really is something.
[38:02.180 --> 38:03.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: Don't do that then.
[38:03.480 --> 38:14.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: If you have a Google Docs document, apparently you will run into some regrettable problems where you won't be able to access your document anymore.
[38:14.920 --> 38:17.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: Anybody out in SkyPlan want to try this?
[38:19.040 --> 38:24.740]  [ROBVINCENT]: Actually, we've been trying this while you were reading the story, and it is fixed now.
[38:24.740 --> 38:24.740]  Yeah.
[38:25.220 --> 38:31.020]  [ROBVINCENT]: So, sadly, you cannot explode your Google Docs by typing this in a document now.
[38:31.180 --> 38:43.860]  [ROBVINCENT]: There was an update to the Google support page about the bug on May 6th, where they say, we have fixed an issue in Docs related to repetitive use of the word, and this fix should soon be in place for all customers.
[38:44.880 --> 38:47.460]  [ROBVINCENT]: So, yes, this was taken care of.
[38:47.560 --> 39:06.160]  [ROBVINCENT]: But my favorite thing about this story is that one of the links we got sent to us about this was a news story on Yahoo.com, and I'm sure someone at Yahoo was very happy to press the button on a story about something messing up at Google, the very company that ate Yahoo's lunch so many years ago on the Internet.
[39:06.680 --> 39:07.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[39:07.260 --> 39:10.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, the update I was reading was May 5th, 6 p.m.
[39:10.260 --> 39:12.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, yeah, May 6th, they fixed it.
[39:12.620 --> 39:12.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[39:12.840 --> 39:13.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, good for them.
[39:13.460 --> 39:16.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: But, boy, I don't know how these things happen in the first place.
[39:17.720 --> 39:19.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: Another reason I don't use Google Docs.
[39:21.120 --> 39:21.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[39:21.840 --> 39:22.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: Twitter.
[39:22.600 --> 39:24.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: I guess we've got to talk about Twitter.
[39:26.140 --> 39:34.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because what Elon Musk said recently is that he plans on reversing Twitter's ban of Donald Trump.
[39:34.780 --> 39:41.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: He said he would do that, assuming that he follows through with the plans to buy the social media company.
[39:41.980 --> 39:43.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't think there's any way out of it now, right?
[39:43.600 --> 39:44.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's pretty much happening.
[39:45.820 --> 39:51.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: He spoke virtually at a Future of the Car Summit hosted by the Financial Times.
[39:51.320 --> 39:55.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: He said Twitter's Trump ban was a morally bad decision and foolish in the extreme.
[39:56.340 --> 40:02.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: He said permanent bans of Twitter accounts should be rare and reserved for accounts that are scams or automated bots.
[40:02.660 --> 40:03.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hello?
[40:03.580 --> 40:06.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: Were you in the country during those four years?
[40:06.520 --> 40:07.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: That was a scam.
[40:08.180 --> 40:11.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: That was President's scam right there.
[40:11.320 --> 40:14.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: It fits the definition in so many ways.
[40:15.360 --> 40:22.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: Twitter banned Trump's account in January 2021 for incitement of violence following the January 6th insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.
[40:24.060 --> 40:30.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: Musk said... I don't care what Musk says or thinks, but unfortunately we're all going to be at his beck and call.
[40:30.980 --> 40:33.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, because he's the one that'll be making the rules.
[40:34.240 --> 40:41.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think that was a mistake because it alienated a large part of the country and did not ultimately result in Donald Trump not having a voice.
[40:43.340 --> 40:45.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: Actually, it really calmed things down quite a bit.
[40:45.840 --> 40:52.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know if people remember what it was like when he was taken off Twitter, but all of a sudden there was a lot less hatred on the Internet.
[40:52.880 --> 40:53.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: It did have an effect.
[40:55.320 --> 40:56.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: Musk continues.
[40:56.200 --> 41:00.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: So I think this may end up being, frankly, worse than having a single forum where everyone can debate.
[41:00.420 --> 41:03.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: I guess the answer is that I would reverse the permanent ban.
[41:05.320 --> 41:13.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now, Trump said he has no intention of rejoining Twitter, even if his account was reinstated, saying that he's going to stay on whatever platform he's running this week.
[41:14.060 --> 41:15.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think it's Truth Social is the latest one.
[41:17.260 --> 41:17.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[41:18.440 --> 41:19.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: Get this.
[41:19.120 --> 41:25.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: Musk also says that Twitter currently has a strong bias to the left, largely because it is located in San Francisco.
[41:26.620 --> 41:29.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, where do you get this nonsense?
[41:29.340 --> 41:40.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: How do you have a bias to the left simply because you kick people off who are inciting violence, who are running scams, who are spreading lies?
[41:41.460 --> 41:57.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe it's because a particular political ideology is doing that more than another, you know, and not so much because the entire platform somehow, like all journalists are accused of doing, is slanted to the left.
[41:57.160 --> 42:02.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe the left is more straight ahead than you think it is.
[42:02.720 --> 42:15.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: And these people, entities that are running afoul of the rules are basically peddling lies and things that really we shouldn't be spreading around.
[42:15.900 --> 42:17.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: Here's where I have a problem.
[42:18.340 --> 42:24.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: If I go on Twitter and I say something that's false, nobody really is going to care.
[42:25.380 --> 42:27.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, a half a dozen people, maybe.
[42:27.740 --> 42:29.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'll get called on it by a couple of people.
[42:30.060 --> 42:35.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: If somebody with 10 million followers, if they start spreading lies, well, then it catches.
[42:36.260 --> 42:42.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: Then it becomes dangerous, especially if it's, you know, incitement or spreading complete falsehoods.
[42:42.800 --> 42:48.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: You cannot simply say everybody's got the same rights because you don't, by definition.
[42:48.660 --> 42:50.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: We don't all have the same audience.
[42:51.060 --> 43:12.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: And if you have everything from institutions to individual people with massive amounts of influence, just basically being able to spread whatever falsehoods they want, unquestioned, and they will be unquestioned because, you know, if anyone here says something to question them,
[43:12.260 --> 43:13.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: no one's going to hear about it.
[43:13.580 --> 43:16.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: They only hear about the people with millions and millions of followers.
[43:16.780 --> 43:27.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: If that becomes the norm, where everybody has the same rights, but very, very different amounts of power, then it's simply going to be one set of lies.
[43:28.480 --> 43:34.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: And maybe some powerful people will debate those lies, but it's not a healthy environment.
[43:34.720 --> 43:36.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: Alex, I'm sure you want to play devil's advocate on this.
[43:37.860 --> 43:54.640]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, I think what you are advocating for here, in a sense, is something more akin to algorithmic transparency as opposed to some kind of rebalancing of speech rights on a platform.
[43:54.860 --> 44:05.940]  [ALEXURBELS]: Because I think, in essence, what you're driving out there was about, you know, the power or the amplification of certain persons' speech over or opposed to other persons.
[44:06.600 --> 44:14.060]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think as a matter of free speech, though, I think, frankly, both the right and the left have it wrong.
[44:14.060 --> 44:22.800]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think on the right, maybe their pants are a little bit too tight, and on the left, you know, maybe they, you know, these long-haired hippies have to grab a scrunchie and get the hair out of their eyes.
[44:23.120 --> 44:30.980]  [ALEXURBELS]: Because what we're talking about here is the First Amendment as it applies to a private institution.
[44:31.260 --> 44:31.740]  [ALEXURBELS]: Twitter.
[44:32.040 --> 44:33.420]  [ALEXURBELS]: Twitter is a corporation.
[44:33.420 --> 44:40.260]  [ALEXURBELS]: In the eyes of the law, Twitter is, for better or for worse, a person with its own First Amendment rights.
[44:40.760 --> 44:55.160]  [ALEXURBELS]: And it is a matter of the First Amendment that they can establish their own standards, their own community standards, and determine on the basis of their freedom of speech, what they want to publish and what they want to not publish, what they want to limit.
[44:55.560 --> 45:09.040]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, I mean, if we think about this very fundamentally, Twitter's free speech rights should not be infringed by the government, forcing these types of community standards upon them from on high.
[45:09.340 --> 45:18.200]  [ALEXURBELS]: You know, as was recently just done, I think this is probably something, well, we should address in Overtime, but there was a Texas law that wasn't joined.
[45:20.100 --> 45:36.860]  [ALEXURBELS]: Meaning there was an injunction preventing this law from going into effect that I believe, I think it's the Fifth Circuit now has reversed this law and allowed it now to take effect, which prohibits social media companies, and I think anybody with over 50 million followers,
[45:37.500 --> 45:48.580]  [ALEXURBELS]: any kind of web service with over 50 million users, rather, from discriminating on the basis of viewpoint, what is and what is not published, and which is just totally crazy.
[45:48.700 --> 46:01.940]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, when you think about how much the right loves to throw in our face the rights of corporations to do whatever they want, the rights of corporations to not pay taxes, the rights of corporations to do this, that, and the other thing.
[46:01.940 --> 46:04.860]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, corporations have First Amendment rights, too.
[46:05.360 --> 46:21.420]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, I mean, I really think, you know, we should explore this new regulation, I think, in more detail on Overtime, and not forget that, you know, really, at root, we have to be fair when it comes to the First Amendment.
[46:21.820 --> 46:23.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: overtime begins at 8 o'clock on YouTube.
[46:23.960 --> 46:25.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's on Channel2600.
[46:25.540 --> 46:30.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: You can click on the link on the 2600.com webpage or on our Twitter account.
[46:31.740 --> 46:34.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we're going to be on the air until 8 o'clock.
[46:35.120 --> 46:35.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Gila.
[46:36.100 --> 46:37.580]  [GILADRAZEN]: That was what I was going to say, actually.
[46:37.680 --> 46:38.780]  [GILADRAZEN]: Thank you for bringing that up, Alex.
[46:39.580 --> 46:42.660]  [GILADRAZEN]: Emmanuel, when you noticed, I was on my phone at the beginning of the show.
[46:42.960 --> 46:45.520]  [GILADRAZEN]: I was looking at an article about this decision.
[46:45.700 --> 46:46.880]  [GILADRAZEN]: It was literally breaking news.
[46:47.000 --> 46:49.400]  [GILADRAZEN]: An article was published 10 minutes before we went on the air.
[46:49.520 --> 46:52.640]  [GILADRAZEN]: So I was reading it, and that was what you caught me doing.
[46:52.640 --> 46:58.380]  [GILADRAZEN]: I apologize, and I sent it to everybody, or I sent it to Rob, who sent it to everybody, because he can email better than I can.
[46:59.060 --> 47:10.700]  [GILADRAZEN]: But it was fascinating, and the Fifth Circuit unenjoined it, but there's a similar law in Florida that is still... what's the word I'm looking for?
[47:11.620 --> 47:12.060]  [GILADRAZEN]: Unenjoined.
[47:12.840 --> 47:13.120]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yes.
[47:13.680 --> 47:14.320]  [GILADRAZEN]: And... thank you.
[47:15.580 --> 47:21.040]  [GILADRAZEN]: No, it's absolutely... it's fascinating what's going to happen, and this is...
[47:21.560 --> 47:28.380]  [GILADRAZEN]: I think an interesting question, but the other thing I was thinking about, Elon Musk, and this has less to do with technology and certainly less to do with law, was...
[47:28.380 --> 47:36.900]  [GILADRAZEN]: Remember when people who were, like, having midlife crises after breakups just went and bought a fancy car, and they didn't buy a social media service?
[47:37.540 --> 47:38.460]  [GILADRAZEN]: That's all I'm thinking.
[47:38.640 --> 47:44.940]  [GILADRAZEN]: Like, could he not do something less publicly destructive and publicly problematic?
[47:45.280 --> 47:46.680]  [GILADRAZEN]: Like, I don't know.
[47:46.840 --> 47:50.780]  [GILADRAZEN]: Can he get a tattoo or something in his midlife crisis?
[47:50.980 --> 47:57.240]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I just keep thinking, how is it that he's got to be the guy that's going to fix it?
[47:57.460 --> 48:03.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because he has this naive viewpoint that he's the savior, that he understands what free speech is, and the rest of us don't.
[48:03.200 --> 48:03.700]  [ALEXURBELS]: Okay, yeah.
[48:03.700 --> 48:04.160]  [ALEXURBELS]: We get it.
[48:04.260 --> 48:05.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: We know what free speech is.
[48:05.600 --> 48:09.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: We just don't want that version of it because it's disruptive.
[48:09.480 --> 48:11.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's, you know, it's naive.
[48:11.400 --> 48:14.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's basically saying, oh, everyone's opinion is the same when it's not.
[48:14.700 --> 48:15.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay?
[48:15.240 --> 48:30.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's like, you know, discussions happen after every news story that you read online, where people who don't know what they're talking about are given basically equal exposure to the person who wrote the damn article in the first place and researched it and did all the work.
[48:30.600 --> 48:39.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, and then you have some idiot who's writing from, you know, their house, oh, this is all false.
[48:39.360 --> 48:40.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: This is stupid.
[48:40.900 --> 48:42.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: And they don't have any facts to back them up.
[48:43.100 --> 48:46.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: But yet, we're told that we have to listen to them just as careful.
[48:46.400 --> 48:47.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't believe that.
[48:47.260 --> 48:56.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: I believe, you know, you earn the right to be respected as a source and that we're not all on the same playing field.
[48:57.120 --> 48:58.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: We define what that field is.
[48:58.420 --> 48:58.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Gila.
[48:59.360 --> 49:19.200]  [GILADRAZEN]: Something that I've been speaking about a lot in really the last 20 years, I would guess, is that really since, I would say since the growth of reality TV, that there's come this idea that if you say it louder and more often, you win the argument.
[49:19.200 --> 49:26.540]  [GILADRAZEN]: It doesn't matter if your argument is sound, it doesn't matter if your argument is true, but if you say it more loudly and more frequently, then you win.
[49:27.460 --> 49:30.100]  [GILADRAZEN]: And it doesn't matter where it's coming from.
[49:30.180 --> 49:31.260]  [GILADRAZEN]: It doesn't matter what it's about.
[49:31.260 --> 49:38.460]  [GILADRAZEN]: And I think about all the people who are like, oh, do your research when you talk about vaccines or whatever.
[49:38.480 --> 49:40.360]  [GILADRAZEN]: I read an article on Google.
[49:40.380 --> 49:41.840]  [GILADRAZEN]: I know what I'm talking about.
[49:42.020 --> 49:44.940]  [GILADRAZEN]: I didn't go to medical school, but I did my research.
[49:45.540 --> 49:46.820]  [GILADRAZEN]: No, no.
[49:47.080 --> 49:51.280]  [GILADRAZEN]: It's someone I knew aggregated 120 articles about vaccines.
[49:51.840 --> 49:54.220]  [GILADRAZEN]: And I said, your college major was Spanish.
[49:54.280 --> 49:55.400]  [GILADRAZEN]: What are you doing?
[49:55.400 --> 49:57.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: And you know who did do the research?
[49:57.620 --> 50:06.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: The researchers, the scientists, the medical people, the experts in whatever field that you are pretending you know something about.
[50:08.720 --> 50:12.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm all for sharing theories and ideas and arguing.
[50:12.600 --> 50:25.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: But when the people who don't know what they're talking about become the dominant voice, then you have a situation like what we have right now in this country, where a bunch of ignorant people are leading us down some very dark roads.
[50:25.740 --> 50:26.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Rob.
[50:27.160 --> 50:36.940]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah, talking about doing the research and not getting good info, I'm looking at quotes from the judges in this Texas case that let this bad rule get put back in place.
[50:37.080 --> 50:51.820]  [ROBVINCENT]: And they're telling the Net Choice and Computer and Communications Industry Association, which represents Twitter and Meta and Google and places like that, the judge told them, your clients are Internet providers, they're not websites.
[50:52.520 --> 51:08.660]  [ROBVINCENT]: At one point, Judge Andrew Oldham suggested that if the platform succeeded, it would be the same as allowing Verizon to kick people off their service, because they're getting very confused about the whole common carrier end of this, which does not exist anymore,
[51:08.660 --> 51:19.100]  [ROBVINCENT]: because the common carrier status thing that was put in place by the Obama administration was reversed by the Trump administration, so do with that knowledge what you will.
[51:19.220 --> 51:20.300]  [ROBVINCENT]: It's not the same thing at all.
[51:20.300 --> 51:20.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, my God.
[51:20.880 --> 51:22.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: They really don't know what they're talking about, do they?
[51:24.220 --> 51:24.580]  [ROBVINCENT]: No.
[51:25.040 --> 51:26.560]  [ROBVINCENT]: Phone companies are common carriers.
[51:26.780 --> 51:34.860]  [ROBVINCENT]: You know, you could say whatever you want over a phone line, and the phone company is not allowed to discriminate against you for saying one thing or another over their service.
[51:34.860 --> 51:39.480]  [ROBVINCENT]: But the social media companies are not common carriers, and they're being treated like they are by these judges.
[51:40.120 --> 51:40.840]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Ah, yes.
[51:40.840 --> 51:44.320]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So, and we're now to look to them.
[51:45.720 --> 51:50.000]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Please tell us how to do culture right and discourse.
[51:50.380 --> 51:54.240]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We're obviously doing it wrong, so please enlighten us.
[51:54.380 --> 51:58.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: Alex, in one minute, because that's all the time we have left, what can happen with this case?
[51:58.460 --> 52:00.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: Is this the final word, or can it be...
[52:00.700 --> 52:02.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: Can smart people take...
[52:02.660 --> 52:03.060]  [ALEXURBELS]: Sure.
[52:03.800 --> 52:09.100]  [ALEXURBELS]: As Gila noted, you know, there is now a circuit split on this, so I think it's very likely to go to the Supreme Court.
[52:09.340 --> 52:37.960]  [ALEXURBELS]: But remember, you know, in dismissing a case as moot last year, Justice Clarence Thomas, of all people, had in that dismissal, what is usually two or three lines, written a long opinion that we discussed at length here on Off The Hook, that essentially argued that Twitter was or should be regulated as a common carrier because it does have aspects of some kind of public forum.
[52:38.180 --> 52:49.920]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think that that is an interesting idea because we have litigated cases where Trump has blocked and banned people and said that was unconstitutional from the perspective of the user.
[52:50.080 --> 52:53.800]  [ALEXURBELS]: So how we are dealing with these platforms, I think, remains to be seen.
[52:54.120 --> 52:56.320]  [ALEXURBELS]: We're dealing with them in a legally inconsistent way.
[52:56.320 --> 53:02.460]  [ALEXURBELS]: But unfortunately, I think most of these laws are performative in nature that come from these state legislatures.
[53:02.600 --> 53:04.200]  [ALEXURBELS]: They're designed to galvanize the base.
[53:04.340 --> 53:08.320]  [ALEXURBELS]: They're not designed to survive strict scrutiny by the courts.
[53:08.400 --> 53:11.460]  [ALEXURBELS]: They're designed to just get people out to vote in midterm elections.
[53:11.460 --> 53:12.560]  [ALEXURBELS]: They're going to be struck down.
[53:13.260 --> 53:13.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[53:13.840 --> 53:16.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're going to talk further about this on Overtime.
[53:16.640 --> 53:18.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's an interesting conversation.
[53:18.720 --> 53:20.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're not afraid of speech.
[53:20.240 --> 53:20.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: Speech is great.
[53:20.960 --> 53:32.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: What I fear is the power that certain individuals will have to steer the rest of us in a very bad direction, unimpeded, unchallenged.
[53:32.160 --> 53:33.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: That is where the real danger is.
[53:34.340 --> 53:35.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: Join us on Overtime.
[53:35.960 --> 53:40.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go to the link on top of 2600.com or just go to Channel2600 on YouTube.
[53:41.120 --> 53:44.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: Write to us, oth@2600.com.
[53:44.140 --> 53:45.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: Please support WBAI.
[53:45.460 --> 53:49.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: give2wbai.org or call 212-209-2950.
[53:49.940 --> 54:00.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: This weekend is Euro 2022, Eurovision 2022, and that's where all kinds of songs are played from 40 different nations, and a winner is chosen.
[54:01.180 --> 54:05.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: There is only one song of the 40 that is, in my opinion, rock and roll.
[54:06.180 --> 54:08.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: It comes from Bulgaria, and we're going to go out with that.
[54:09.020 --> 54:11.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: Intelligent Music Project.
[54:11.180 --> 54:11.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good night.
[57:07.330 --> 57:09.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: And welcome to everybody on YouTube.
[57:09.410 --> 57:19.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: This is Off The Hook Overtime, where we can take your phone calls and continue our lively discussion online, not on the air.
[57:19.770 --> 57:22.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: Unless, of course, somebody's rebroadcasting us over the air.
[57:23.390 --> 57:25.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: In which case, we'll try to wash our language.
[57:26.910 --> 57:27.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: Everybody make it?
[57:27.930 --> 57:29.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: Kyle, I see you over there.
[57:29.710 --> 57:29.870]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[57:31.150 --> 57:32.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: Gila, are you there?
[57:32.830 --> 57:33.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm here.
[57:33.630 --> 57:35.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: And Rob, I see you.
[57:35.630 --> 57:36.610]  [ROBVINCENT]: I also am there.
[57:37.930 --> 57:39.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: And Frank... no, wait, who's Frank?
[57:40.590 --> 57:41.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: No, Alex.
[57:41.690 --> 57:42.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, that's who you are.
[57:43.710 --> 57:44.350]  [ROBVINCENT]: Barely here.
[57:44.610 --> 57:45.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, good.
[57:46.230 --> 57:46.590]  [ROBVINCENT]: All right.
[57:46.590 --> 57:49.170]  [ROBVINCENT]: And we are on YouTube, and we are sounding good.
[57:49.430 --> 57:49.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[57:49.870 --> 57:52.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, that's the listener's judgment call there.
[57:53.450 --> 58:03.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: So anyone have any points they want to expand upon from what we were talking about before with Twitter and freedom of speech and disobeying laws and various fun things like that?
[58:05.450 --> 58:06.970]  [ROBVINCENT]: Well, one important thing.
[58:07.110 --> 58:18.510]  [ROBVINCENT]: We were talking earlier in Off The Hook about the protests coming up over the next weekend and so on regarding the reproductive rights situation we find ourselves in.
[58:18.510 --> 58:27.030]  [ROBVINCENT]: And I do want to raise the point for anyone considering going to protests that one of the very basic protections you can get is to leave your phone at home.
[58:27.210 --> 58:29.750]  [ROBVINCENT]: If you must bring your phone, turn off location tracking.
[58:30.130 --> 58:36.750]  [ROBVINCENT]: Also, do not have face ID or fingerprint ID enabled on your phone because if you are arrested...
[58:36.750 --> 58:45.270]  [ROBVINCENT]: And Alex, tell me if I'm wrong here, but I believe the prevailing rule is if you are arrested, the police cannot force you to input a passcode.
[58:45.430 --> 58:49.430]  [ROBVINCENT]: They can, however, force you to unlock a phone with your finger or your face.
[58:50.250 --> 58:52.250]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, I believe that's the case.
[58:53.070 --> 59:02.910]  [ALEXURBELS]: And it goes back to the Fifth Amendment and forcing you to provide a password could be considered a form of self-incrimination.
[59:05.470 --> 59:06.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, yeah.
[59:06.570 --> 59:07.310]  [EVILCORLEY]: It does seem that way.
[59:08.770 --> 59:09.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know.
[59:09.590 --> 59:17.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: This whole Twitter thing kind of bugs me because it's not that I shy away from arguments.
[59:17.970 --> 59:19.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's not it at all.
[59:20.250 --> 59:22.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's that I don't like bullies.
[59:22.650 --> 59:32.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: And this is what we're heading towards, is where the bullies come back, can say whatever they want, can incite all kinds of horrible things.
[59:33.050 --> 59:35.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we just have to treat it like, oh, yep, freedom of speech.
[59:36.070 --> 59:42.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: And you got to let them say what they're going to say, regardless of the fact that they have so much more pull than anyone else will ever have.
[59:42.750 --> 59:46.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it just seems like a really, really bad idea.
[59:46.830 --> 59:51.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, we would not have had the last four years of hell were it not for social media.
[59:51.690 --> 59:52.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's no question about that.
[59:53.470 --> 59:57.310]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I just worry about what we are facing in the future.
[59:57.910 --> 59:58.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: Alex, yeah, go ahead.
[59:59.690 --> 01:00:16.850]  [ALEXURBELS]: You know, to go back to the point that I had made during the ordinary hour of Off The Hook, which is that the reason why Twitter can discriminate on the basis of viewpoint about what it publishes and what it doesn't publish is because it itself has First Amendment rights.
[01:00:16.850 --> 01:00:39.110]  [ALEXURBELS]: So this whole notion of Elon Musk returning the concept of freedom of speech to Twitter is at the same time destructive of Twitter's freedom of speech because it would at that point eviscerate its own ability to distinguish between speech that it likes and speech that it doesn't like and treat everything, you know, as just one big dumpster fire.
[01:00:42.350 --> 01:00:47.790]  [ALEXURBELS]: And really, that's where we were with Twitter prior to 2016.
[01:00:48.070 --> 01:00:49.770]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, remember this many years ago.
[01:00:49.830 --> 01:00:51.570]  [ALEXURBELS]: There were no rules about this.
[01:00:51.630 --> 01:01:05.990]  [ALEXURBELS]: And if you don't have some form of rules or some form of community standards, this is going to deteriorate very quickly into something that looks like one of those fringe, you know, image boards that are out there.
[01:01:05.990 --> 01:01:10.810]  [ALEXURBELS]: The 4chan, the 8chan, 16chan, 32chan, whatever the hell they're up to at this point.
[01:01:11.250 --> 01:01:13.270]  [ALEXURBELS]: Is that really what we want from Twitter?
[01:01:13.470 --> 01:01:26.490]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, it almost seems as if Elon Musk, in his return to this no-holds-barred version of public discourse and public dialogue, is trying to destroy the very thing that he's intent on buying.
[01:01:26.490 --> 01:01:29.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, he's being a disruptor, and being a disruptor is cool.
[01:01:29.990 --> 01:01:34.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: But basically, you know, when you talk about the rules, who makes those rules?
[01:01:35.670 --> 01:01:38.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: The people running the platform make the rules.
[01:01:39.150 --> 01:01:47.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: And if you're told that, yeah, you're not allowed to be there, and you're not allowed to be anywhere, then you have censorship.
[01:01:47.630 --> 01:01:51.310]  [EVILCORLEY]: Then you have a situation that's very unhealthy that needs to be fought.
[01:01:51.310 --> 01:01:54.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: When you have one company saying, yeah, we don't want to do business with you.
[01:01:55.050 --> 01:01:56.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: We don't want you on our platform.
[01:01:56.950 --> 01:02:00.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: As far as I'm concerned, they can do that, even if it's not completely fair.
[01:02:00.910 --> 01:02:06.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: If they use flawed logic to do that in the first place, they deserve to be shamed for that.
[01:02:06.370 --> 01:02:07.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: But they still have the right to do it.
[01:02:08.350 --> 01:02:18.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I think what we're moving into now is just this hugely naive area where everybody is just treated as if they have, you know, equal say in everything.
[01:02:19.770 --> 01:02:26.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, yeah, then you have the situation, Alex, that you were describing of just complete mayhem.
[01:02:26.870 --> 01:02:28.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: Kyle, and then Rob.
[01:02:28.270 --> 01:02:32.690]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I just want to jump in and point out the use of the word morally.
[01:02:33.950 --> 01:02:48.630]  [KYLEDROSDK]: His concept there, it's not technically, it's not legally it was wrong for Twitter to make a decision about the former president being on their platform or removing him from it.
[01:02:48.630 --> 01:02:52.410]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It was morally wrong in his view.
[01:02:52.590 --> 01:02:59.190]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'd love for him to just elaborate to the end of days about how important that is.
[01:02:59.330 --> 01:03:08.770]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Because I would pose in response, what morally was he doing right to deserve to be there?
[01:03:09.230 --> 01:03:12.430]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I mean, you want to take it to moral terms.
[01:03:12.430 --> 01:03:18.070]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Sometimes it's, again, a totally different comparison.
[01:03:18.710 --> 01:03:27.450]  [KYLEDROSDK]: There was a whole lot of moral wrong going on from that account in many, a myriad of people's point of view.
[01:03:27.650 --> 01:03:32.490]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And just look what happened in the way he was using that platform.
[01:03:32.490 --> 01:03:42.270]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And this person wants to talk to society about morality?
[01:03:43.350 --> 01:03:44.690]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Are you joking?
[01:03:45.790 --> 01:03:47.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe, maybe he is.
[01:03:47.190 --> 01:03:47.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Rob.
[01:03:48.670 --> 01:04:04.750]  [ROBVINCENT]: And just the whole concept of a privately held or, you know, a privately held concern, a company, a person, an individual, whatever, that puts a website onto the net, has to let people put things on that website that they don't want there.
[01:04:05.130 --> 01:04:08.750]  [ROBVINCENT]: I mean, imagine if you had a house and anybody could put whatever signs they wanted on your lawn.
[01:04:08.930 --> 01:04:09.950]  [ROBVINCENT]: You know, I'm an artist.
[01:04:10.130 --> 01:04:10.830]  [ROBVINCENT]: I don't have to...
[01:04:10.830 --> 01:04:13.990]  [ROBVINCENT]: I've never had to deal with somebody who hates me telling me what I should put in my painting.
[01:04:14.350 --> 01:04:20.830]  [ROBVINCENT]: And, Emmanuel, imagine if you had, by law, to publish every single article in 2600 that somebody thought should be in there.
[01:04:21.010 --> 01:04:22.270]  [ROBVINCENT]: I mean, that would be craziness.
[01:04:22.270 --> 01:04:22.890]  [ROBVINCENT]: That would be madness.
[01:04:22.890 --> 01:04:27.470]  [ROBVINCENT]: And it would also destroy the usefulness of the publishing venue.
[01:04:27.730 --> 01:04:30.110]  [ROBVINCENT]: Like, we can decide what we make.
[01:04:30.250 --> 01:04:31.310]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know how much paper that would take?
[01:04:31.410 --> 01:04:32.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: That would be insane.
[01:04:32.510 --> 01:04:33.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: It would be bad for all of us.
[01:04:33.370 --> 01:04:33.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: But, yeah.
[01:04:33.990 --> 01:04:38.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, when I signed on, you know, out of fun, to...
[01:04:38.670 --> 01:04:42.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: What was the Trump media outlet before Truth Social?
[01:04:42.810 --> 01:04:45.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: There was another one that ended in fire and disaster.
[01:04:45.870 --> 01:04:46.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: Does anybody remember?
[01:04:47.870 --> 01:04:49.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: Aren't we supposed to remember these things?
[01:04:50.070 --> 01:04:51.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: I thought the Internet was forever.
[01:04:51.550 --> 01:04:52.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: But apparently it's not.
[01:04:52.810 --> 01:04:54.450]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Are you talking about Parler?
[01:04:54.730 --> 01:04:55.550]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, it was Parler.
[01:04:55.850 --> 01:04:57.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: I signed up for a Parler account.
[01:04:58.770 --> 01:05:01.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, I was truthful about who I was and what I stood for.
[01:05:01.890 --> 01:05:02.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: My account got deleted.
[01:05:02.870 --> 01:05:05.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: My account was because of who I was.
[01:05:05.710 --> 01:05:06.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: Apparently, I didn't fit in.
[01:05:07.550 --> 01:05:08.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: Apparently, they can do that.
[01:05:08.910 --> 01:05:09.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's not a problem.
[01:05:09.810 --> 01:05:10.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: And you know what?
[01:05:10.410 --> 01:05:11.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: I said, fine, go ahead.
[01:05:12.130 --> 01:05:15.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, it just basically proves what I thought about you.
[01:05:16.010 --> 01:05:17.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because I didn't even get to say anything.
[01:05:17.690 --> 01:05:18.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: I just had a profile.
[01:05:18.970 --> 01:05:22.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that was enough to get deleted just because it didn't match.
[01:05:22.350 --> 01:05:24.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you know, they're going to have a problem with this, too.
[01:05:24.850 --> 01:05:27.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's, you know, it goes both ways.
[01:05:29.190 --> 01:05:51.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: If we're forced to have every conspiracy nut and right-winger and white nationalist giving a free speech platform on some outlets like Facebook and like Twitter, then I guess the left wing has to have outlets on everything that they hold near and dear.
[01:05:52.530 --> 01:05:54.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I want to know how that's going to work out.
[01:05:54.650 --> 01:05:55.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I also want to know...
[01:05:55.630 --> 01:05:56.110]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We're, uh...
[01:05:56.110 --> 01:06:01.610]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I was just going to point out we're available for syndication on all the AM stations.
[01:06:01.610 --> 01:06:04.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, imagine if we, uh, you know, we're, we're...
[01:06:04.730 --> 01:06:12.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, radio is different because there's a, um, a limited, a finite amount of, uh, of, um, bandwidth and frequencies and things like that.
[01:06:12.850 --> 01:06:15.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, but you could, you could draw some parallels.
[01:06:15.590 --> 01:06:20.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I wonder, you know, we still, as far as I know, we, we run an IRC network and we have IRC channels.
[01:06:21.250 --> 01:06:24.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: Are we not allowed to kick people out of the channels when, when we feel like it?
[01:06:24.290 --> 01:06:26.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, because that's a big part of IRC is getting kicked out of channels.
[01:06:26.950 --> 01:06:29.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: But maybe now that's illegal.
[01:06:29.510 --> 01:06:32.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe now that's something that would violate their free speech rights.
[01:06:32.250 --> 01:06:32.790]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It's immoral.
[01:06:33.510 --> 01:06:34.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I've always felt that.
[01:06:34.570 --> 01:06:37.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: But, you know, Alex, what, what's, what's your legal opinion on that?
[01:06:37.810 --> 01:06:39.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, uh, IRC could be in danger here.
[01:06:40.930 --> 01:06:46.990]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think I need to do some research and get back to you after, uh, thoroughly writing and vetting a memorandum.
[01:06:47.370 --> 01:06:51.730]  [ALEXURBELS]: Um, I mean, I think, uh, that's such an interesting question.
[01:06:52.210 --> 01:06:56.930]  [ALEXURBELS]: I don't think that, um, anybody has ever thought of the application.
[01:06:56.950 --> 01:07:12.950]  [ALEXURBELS]: Of these crazy laws to a service like IRC because of, and I think because of the amount of users that would be on IRC, um, it, it could come under the purview of these laws.
[01:07:13.190 --> 01:07:24.250]  [ALEXURBELS]: But unlike something like Twitter or Facebook, uh, there doesn't seem to be any kind of helm of IRC, right?
[01:07:24.450 --> 01:07:28.330]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, in the sense of nobody individually controls it.
[01:07:28.450 --> 01:07:30.210]  [ALEXURBELS]: No, there's no entity that can...
[01:07:30.210 --> 01:07:31.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, channels have operators.
[01:07:31.750 --> 01:07:34.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, you know, whoever the operator is, they, they control that.
[01:07:34.810 --> 01:07:38.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: And there's a system operator too that controls the entire network.
[01:07:39.870 --> 01:07:40.290]  [ALEXURBELS]: Possibly.
[01:07:40.470 --> 01:07:41.750]  [ALEXURBELS]: So maybe the system operators.
[01:07:41.970 --> 01:07:45.310]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, you know, maybe like back in the day, you know, like UIUC, right?
[01:07:45.310 --> 01:07:48.150]  [ALEXURBELS]: University of Illinois, Champaign-Urbana, right?
[01:07:48.190 --> 01:07:50.270]  [ALEXURBELS]: That was one of the big IRC...
[01:07:50.270 --> 01:07:55.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: How about, how about IRC.2600.net, our own IRC server, currently up right now.
[01:07:55.730 --> 01:08:02.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, we, we control the domain and, uh, we have people who control the, uh, the, the network and then we have people who control the channels.
[01:08:02.730 --> 01:08:05.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, there are people with control there.
[01:08:05.910 --> 01:08:07.230]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, absolutely.
[01:08:07.530 --> 01:08:18.990]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, look, I think if you control the IRC server and you meet the threshold requirement for the minimum amount of users for the law to take effect, then there may be an argument that the law could apply.
[01:08:19.410 --> 01:08:21.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: Why is this based on number of users?
[01:08:22.490 --> 01:08:24.050]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, that's what the law says.
[01:08:24.230 --> 01:08:29.770]  [ALEXURBELS]: This is to exclude services that are smaller or up and coming.
[01:08:30.590 --> 01:08:39.870]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, I feel like Gila has the statistics more at her fingertips than I do, uh, but I think it's something like 50 million or 5 million, a number...
[01:08:39.870 --> 01:08:39.910]  [ALEXURBELS]: 50 million.
[01:08:40.310 --> 01:08:41.190]  [ALEXURBELS]: What was it, Gila?
[01:08:41.330 --> 01:08:42.150]  [GILADRAZEN]: It's 50 million.
[01:08:42.670 --> 01:08:43.270]  [ALEXURBELS]: Oh, right.
[01:08:43.370 --> 01:08:45.770]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, IRC, I think it would be, you know, it would be tough.
[01:08:45.870 --> 01:08:47.250]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think, I don't know if there are.
[01:08:47.410 --> 01:08:49.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know if we have 50 million users, but, yeah.
[01:08:49.430 --> 01:08:53.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, so maybe that's how Trump gets away with it, too, with True Social, because they don't have 50 million people.
[01:08:54.490 --> 01:08:54.730]  Right.
[01:08:55.130 --> 01:08:55.450]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:08:56.130 --> 01:09:08.950]  [ALEXURBELS]: Um, I mean, look, that, that's a good point, too, that they've chosen a number that's high enough that it would apply to Twitter and Facebook, but low enough that it wouldn't necessarily implicate, uh, True Social, and, and Trump's...
[01:09:08.950 --> 01:09:09.690]  [ALEXURBELS]: Hang on a second.
[01:09:09.810 --> 01:09:10.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hang on a second.
[01:09:10.350 --> 01:09:16.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: If, if, if they go and they kick off even more people, then they go below 50 million, problem solved, right?
[01:09:16.970 --> 01:09:18.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: And they don't have to do it anymore.
[01:09:18.710 --> 01:09:19.190]  [ALEXURBELS]: True.
[01:09:19.650 --> 01:09:19.850]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:09:20.110 --> 01:09:20.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hmm.
[01:09:20.250 --> 01:09:42.250]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's true, but, you know, the, the, the whole point of all this nonsense, right, and they, and the, the, the removal of any kind of barrier or community standards with respect to free speech or dialogue isn't necessarily to make this more of an egalitarian public sphere or public square or place for debate.
[01:09:42.250 --> 01:09:54.190]  [ALEXURBELS]: The whole idea behind it is what we've known for really quite a long time now, I would say at least over a decade, which is that contention and pugilism attract people.
[01:09:54.630 --> 01:10:04.610]  [ALEXURBELS]: You know, you, fundamentally, you think about, you know, going back to elementary school or junior high when there was a fight in the hallway, everybody gathered around and watched it, right?
[01:10:04.650 --> 01:10:05.770]  [ALEXURBELS]: Nobody just kept walking.
[01:10:06.030 --> 01:10:10.250]  [ALEXURBELS]: This is the same reason why we rubberneck when there's a car accident on the side, right?
[01:10:10.530 --> 01:10:14.830]  [ALEXURBELS]: Now, we like to see this type of tragedy and conflict and we observe it and we watch it.
[01:10:15.410 --> 01:10:24.770]  [ALEXURBELS]: And that observation in this conflict generates more and more users, more and more eyeballs on the platform and they stay on the platform longer, the longer or the greater the conflict is.
[01:10:25.370 --> 01:10:39.730]  [ALEXURBELS]: And the more time you spend on that platform, the more data and analytics are being collected about you, the more data and analytics that a platform has, the more likely they are to be able to monetize that data, to sell it to advertisers and, and, you know,
[01:10:40.050 --> 01:10:43.050]  [ALEXURBELS]: and put some Some kind of bizarre promoted ad in front of you.
[01:10:43.210 --> 01:10:53.590]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, it all seems to be very basely and simply designed to attract people to this type of fight.
[01:10:53.750 --> 01:11:02.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: But Alex, to carry on that analogy just a little bit, if you're in an elementary school and you're walking down the hallway and you see two kids having a fight, yeah, you're tempted to watch for a little bit.
[01:11:03.150 --> 01:11:06.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: What happens when you walk down that same hallway and there's two teachers having a fight?
[01:11:06.610 --> 01:11:07.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's a little bit different, isn't it?
[01:11:08.410 --> 01:11:10.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: It carries a different amount of weight.
[01:11:10.210 --> 01:11:17.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: So what I'm saying is that when you have a huge following, I think what you say should be under a bit more scrutiny.
[01:11:17.650 --> 01:11:23.310]  [EVILCORLEY]: Just like, you know, elected officials are held to a higher standard based on what they say and what they do.
[01:11:23.410 --> 01:11:28.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think the same thing should hold true if you have all of these people hanging on your every word.
[01:11:28.490 --> 01:11:31.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: Or even maybe the blue checkmark is how we do it.
[01:11:31.510 --> 01:11:36.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe, you know, if you have one of those, then you have a higher standard you must live up to.
[01:11:36.870 --> 01:11:44.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: Whereas anybody else can basically just speak out of their ass, to coin a phrase.
[01:11:44.270 --> 01:11:51.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: But again, when you have a huge number of people, I do think that is something that changes the whole dynamic.
[01:11:51.510 --> 01:11:52.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: Kyle, do you have something?
[01:11:52.510 --> 01:11:53.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: And then Gila.
[01:11:53.770 --> 01:11:54.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, Gila, go ahead.
[01:11:54.810 --> 01:11:55.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Gila first.
[01:11:56.270 --> 01:11:57.590]  [GILADRAZEN]: I'm thinking about this.
[01:11:57.670 --> 01:12:00.090]  [GILADRAZEN]: I was looking at some stuff about HB 20.
[01:12:00.310 --> 01:12:03.410]  [GILADRAZEN]: This is the law in question is HB 20 in Texas.
[01:12:03.690 --> 01:12:09.830]  [GILADRAZEN]: And I'm thinking about the intersection of HB 20 and Elon Musk buying Twitter.
[01:12:09.950 --> 01:12:12.230]  [GILADRAZEN]: Because remember when this passed.
[01:12:12.490 --> 01:12:13.850]  [GILADRAZEN]: Remember when this happened.
[01:12:13.850 --> 01:12:17.250]  [GILADRAZEN]: This law was passed in September.
[01:12:17.630 --> 01:12:25.710]  [GILADRAZEN]: This bill, this law, I suppose, came up as a knee-jerk reaction to Twitter banning Donald Trump.
[01:12:25.770 --> 01:12:27.450]  [GILADRAZEN]: That's the whole point here.
[01:12:27.630 --> 01:12:34.490]  [GILADRAZEN]: Was they're saying, well, you hurt our hero's feelings, so we're going to pass a law against you.
[01:12:34.950 --> 01:12:36.210]  [GILADRAZEN]: That's where it came from.
[01:12:36.370 --> 01:12:38.870]  [GILADRAZEN]: And there's a reason that these exist in Texas and in Florida.
[01:12:40.290 --> 01:12:42.450]  [GILADRAZEN]: They're still enjoined by the circuit in Florida.
[01:12:42.890 --> 01:12:52.750]  [GILADRAZEN]: But I wonder what's going to happen with this if Elon Musk is like, oh, well, Donald Trump can have his Twitter account back.
[01:12:52.870 --> 01:12:57.190]  [GILADRAZEN]: And they're also, you know, they're required to be really transparent about policies like this.
[01:12:59.230 --> 01:13:05.670]  [GILADRAZEN]: Bills and ownership of large social media companies should not be knee-jerk reactions to anything.
[01:13:06.570 --> 01:13:15.370]  [GILADRAZEN]: The immediacy that people are trying to act with now in so many ways is disrupting the norms of so many things.
[01:13:15.470 --> 01:13:16.870]  [GILADRAZEN]: And I don't mean disrupting in a good way.
[01:13:17.030 --> 01:13:21.150]  [GILADRAZEN]: I don't mean disrupting in the way that it's become used in business.
[01:13:21.830 --> 01:13:22.970]  [GILADRAZEN]: This is bad.
[01:13:23.290 --> 01:13:24.730]  [GILADRAZEN]: People need to think a little bit.
[01:13:26.330 --> 01:13:27.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, that's the hard part.
[01:13:31.010 --> 01:13:39.830]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm present, I think, in this conversation is the possibility of those numbers being boosted.
[01:13:39.950 --> 01:13:41.710]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I'm hearing this number.
[01:13:42.050 --> 01:13:47.630]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I get and I'm getting the feeling that it's arbitrary, like that it could change, this threshold number.
[01:13:47.850 --> 01:13:52.250]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And these things, as you said, it was sort of a made-up law.
[01:13:52.650 --> 01:13:55.510]  [KYLEDROSDK]: This number or this threshold itself could be changed.
[01:13:55.510 --> 01:14:15.110]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I'm curious also what might play out as far as users and what the kind of error rate of or cushion, shall we say, of fake users there would be in various instances.
[01:14:15.110 --> 01:14:39.450]  [KYLEDROSDK]: If a company could boost their user to get above a threshold or perhaps remove users, labeling them as a sort of synthetic user or so as to fit a threshold that suits whatever that entity wants to do.
[01:14:39.530 --> 01:14:39.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, my God.
[01:14:39.990 --> 01:14:41.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: I just thought of it.
[01:14:41.550 --> 01:14:42.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: I just thought of it.
[01:14:42.230 --> 01:14:49.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: So somebody, if they want to hack us on our IRC network, they just have to create 50 million bots, which they could do.
[01:14:49.270 --> 01:14:53.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: And then all of a sudden, we have to follow that rule now and let them say whatever they want to say.
[01:14:54.770 --> 01:14:55.610]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Oh, my God.
[01:14:55.850 --> 01:14:58.570]  [KYLEDROSDK]: That's exactly the scenario that I was kind of thinking.
[01:14:58.690 --> 01:14:59.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: We have to stop this.
[01:14:59.490 --> 01:15:03.070]  [KYLEDROSDK]: As we were discussing, I became really cognizant.
[01:15:03.170 --> 01:15:05.590]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I was seeing that vividly.
[01:15:05.590 --> 01:15:16.870]  [KYLEDROSDK]: The other small thing I wanted to point out was from what Alex had been talking about is this life cycle sort of information and ads and targeting.
[01:15:17.030 --> 01:15:23.450]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I just want to add, I want to complete the circle of that ad and user information life cycle.
[01:15:23.610 --> 01:15:27.070]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And that is the age old, the one we know most about.
[01:15:27.070 --> 01:15:29.490]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And that is the ad itself.
[01:15:29.690 --> 01:15:37.670]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Once it's targeted, it makes you feel inadequate or as though you're missing something.
[01:15:37.670 --> 01:15:41.830]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It's selling you a lifestyle or something about yourself that you don't know you need.
[01:15:42.150 --> 01:15:53.430]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And, of course, that enrages you and makes you want to go and lash out at others or prove some asinine point just to score one.
[01:15:53.430 --> 01:16:05.730]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Because of how manipulated you've been in that circle of this sinister data brokering.
[01:16:05.890 --> 01:16:06.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: Rob, then Alex.
[01:16:08.410 --> 01:16:18.350]  [ROBVINCENT]: The salient point here, and a really interesting point now that I think about it, is that HP 20 specifies that the site must have 50 million active monthly users.
[01:16:20.110 --> 01:16:24.130]  [ROBVINCENT]: And I'm wondering, like, does this include the bots that are all over social media?
[01:16:24.350 --> 01:16:27.730]  [ROBVINCENT]: There are lots of spam bots, there are lots of fake accounts, but there are also some good bots.
[01:16:28.170 --> 01:16:37.330]  [ROBVINCENT]: You know, will this put the onus on sites like Twitter to verify their users' real identities, so to speak?
[01:16:37.410 --> 01:16:43.730]  [ROBVINCENT]: And how would they do that in countries where they're not connected to, like, national ID systems or things like that?
[01:16:43.730 --> 01:16:48.690]  [ROBVINCENT]: There are so many cans of worms here now that this is going to open.
[01:16:48.870 --> 01:16:50.930]  [ROBVINCENT]: I would love to hear what our listeners think about this.
[01:16:51.770 --> 01:16:52.250]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:16:52.630 --> 01:16:58.630]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think bots would be counted, Rob, just because they would count as a user.
[01:16:58.630 --> 01:17:03.050]  [ALEXURBELS]: I guess it would depend on how the act had defined what a user is.
[01:17:03.150 --> 01:17:05.830]  [ALEXURBELS]: But there certainly would be an argument to discounting bots.
[01:17:05.830 --> 01:17:16.250]  [ALEXURBELS]: But my main point was that, speaking of arbitrary numbers, ours is 802-321-4225, if you want to call.
[01:17:16.310 --> 01:17:19.670]  [ALEXURBELS]: Because I thought this was about taking phone calls, Emmanuel, don't we want to take some phone calls?
[01:17:19.670 --> 01:17:23.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, but you said you wanted to say more things before, so that's why.
[01:17:23.890 --> 01:17:25.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: But, Gila, I think you had something, too?
[01:17:26.890 --> 01:17:35.490]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yeah, I was looking at an older article from when the law was passed, and just the specificity of the way it works.
[01:17:35.650 --> 01:17:38.470]  [GILADRAZEN]: And the bill also requires law.
[01:17:38.730 --> 01:17:39.170]  [GILADRAZEN]: It's a law.
[01:17:39.190 --> 01:17:39.970]  [GILADRAZEN]: I apologize.
[01:17:40.190 --> 01:17:51.010]  [GILADRAZEN]: But the way it was written was that you have to, or the social media companies are required to investigate any reported illegal activity within 48 hours.
[01:17:51.010 --> 01:18:06.210]  [GILADRAZEN]: And I cannot, even for a moment, understand how that particular proviso might be adopted by malicious actors.
[01:18:06.210 --> 01:18:15.550]  [GILADRAZEN]: I cannot imagine that people would not just be operating on good faith in that particular piece of this law.
[01:18:16.410 --> 01:18:23.210]  [GILADRAZEN]: Just the way it's targeted, it's very much like, we're going to get you, Twitter, and we're going to get you, Facebook.
[01:18:23.430 --> 01:18:25.130]  [GILADRAZEN]: It's like, hey, Zuckerberg, we're coming for you.
[01:18:25.750 --> 01:18:28.750]  [GILADRAZEN]: Now, do I have issues with Mark Zuckerberg and the way he runs his company?
[01:18:29.390 --> 01:18:29.790]  [GILADRAZEN]: 100%.
[01:18:29.790 --> 01:18:31.650]  [GILADRAZEN]: Do I think this law is terrible?
[01:18:31.870 --> 01:18:32.450]  [GILADRAZEN]: Also true.
[01:18:32.990 --> 01:18:34.330]  [GILADRAZEN]: Can two things be true at the same time?
[01:18:34.470 --> 01:18:34.770]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yes.
[01:18:36.350 --> 01:18:38.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: 802-321-4225 is our phone number.
[01:18:38.630 --> 01:18:39.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: 802-321-HACK.
[01:18:40.370 --> 01:18:43.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: What if Twitter started charging people a monthly fee?
[01:18:43.990 --> 01:18:45.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: Weren't they talking about that?
[01:18:45.350 --> 01:18:48.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: That would weed out a lot of people, including me.
[01:18:50.960 --> 01:18:52.000]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Well, that's a thought.
[01:18:52.220 --> 01:19:04.180]  [KYLEDROSDK]: That was one of the suggested changes that Elon Musk was floating, is to do that, but specifically for corporations and government entities.
[01:19:05.060 --> 01:19:11.060]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I think that some of these apps really should have admitted that from the beginning.
[01:19:11.060 --> 01:19:12.320]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I know we've talked about it.
[01:19:12.320 --> 01:19:14.800]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We've had speakers at HOPE talk about it.
[01:19:14.960 --> 01:19:24.940]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Drone Lanier, his talk was about how we started out offering everything for free and then tried to figure out ways to pay for it, and that way ended up being ads.
[01:19:24.940 --> 01:19:34.940]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So, I mean, this has been discussed, and certain platforms have changed and evolved over time.
[01:19:35.200 --> 01:19:36.680]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You know, Netflix used to send you discs.
[01:19:36.880 --> 01:19:37.620]  [KYLEDROSDK]: They don't anymore.
[01:19:38.780 --> 01:19:42.440]  [KYLEDROSDK]: There's good reason to maybe reassess this stuff.
[01:19:42.440 --> 01:19:48.680]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I think apps like Instagram should admit that it's really, like, mostly social commerce.
[01:19:49.520 --> 01:19:54.040]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, the tagging and the photography, that may have been where it started.
[01:19:54.100 --> 01:19:58.480]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We love the idea, but that is not how we are using Instagram.
[01:19:58.480 --> 01:20:04.460]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It is totally a, like, social marketplace, like, social commerce site.
[01:20:04.760 --> 01:20:06.300]  [KYLEDROSDK]: People create personas.
[01:20:06.340 --> 01:20:08.000]  [KYLEDROSDK]: They're talking about what they do.
[01:20:08.180 --> 01:20:11.740]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Then they do brand endorsements, and immediately it's like, okay, this is an ad.
[01:20:12.020 --> 01:20:14.660]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, it starts one way, and it is not how it is.
[01:20:14.780 --> 01:20:17.160]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It ends up once that profile is built.
[01:20:17.340 --> 01:20:20.540]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And so, like, I think they need to really admit, like, what are we for?
[01:20:21.060 --> 01:20:22.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Gila, and then we're going to take this phone call.
[01:20:23.320 --> 01:20:28.420]  [GILADRAZEN]: And I think the question is also how things could be tiered in the same way.
[01:20:28.680 --> 01:20:38.400]  [GILADRAZEN]: And, you know, is looking at social media, and when people and brands are trying to have the same conversation at the same time, and sometimes it's fun.
[01:20:38.760 --> 01:20:45.420]  [GILADRAZEN]: Like, when there were a bunch of snack food brands sort of tweeting at each other like they were people, and that was very funny.
[01:20:46.040 --> 01:20:54.220]  [GILADRAZEN]: But I was looking today, I was on Cameo today, I was looking at something, and there are a bunch of people on Cameo now who have two different tiers for their videos.
[01:20:54.760 --> 01:20:59.660]  [GILADRAZEN]: You can pay one fee if it's for a regular video, and another fee if it's, like, for a business shout-out.
[01:20:59.960 --> 01:21:03.080]  [GILADRAZEN]: So what those two places come together, I think.
[01:21:03.160 --> 01:21:03.660]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yes, Kyle.
[01:21:04.640 --> 01:21:05.080]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Exactly.
[01:21:05.100 --> 01:21:16.440]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I think you maybe, like, take a look at how it is being used, and maybe add a level to that, and if that moves in a better direction.
[01:21:16.440 --> 01:21:31.700]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Because I think in many ways, yeah, the promoted stuff and the sponsored stuff, that is, was ads, but there are other tiers of, I guess, usership and ways people take advantage of that.
[01:21:31.860 --> 01:21:32.640]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I mean, how many...
[01:21:32.640 --> 01:21:40.400]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Think of the rules around tagging your thing as, this is an ad, or, like, this is for, you know, an endorsement.
[01:21:40.500 --> 01:21:42.000]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm being paid to say this, basically.
[01:21:42.400 --> 01:21:44.360]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And then how often that is enforced.
[01:21:44.360 --> 01:21:45.820]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It's not really enforced.
[01:21:46.200 --> 01:21:49.760]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, if you don't say that you're paid for something, what's going to happen?
[01:21:49.980 --> 01:21:57.160]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Who, who honestly goes, gets, uh, there, uh, some kind of discipline after that?
[01:21:57.300 --> 01:21:57.700]  [KYLEDROSDK]: They don't.
[01:21:57.800 --> 01:21:59.840]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It's maybe, like, enforced by peers.
[01:22:00.080 --> 01:22:03.320]  [KYLEDROSDK]: If you're caught in some, uh, you know, drama.
[01:22:04.200 --> 01:22:04.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's important.
[01:22:04.580 --> 01:22:07.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: The FCC enforces that in broadcasting, but not online.
[01:22:07.580 --> 01:22:08.240]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Not online.
[01:22:08.300 --> 01:22:12.500]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Not on, like, a social marketing platform, as I described it.
[01:22:12.640 --> 01:22:13.060]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Go ahead, Gil.
[01:22:13.060 --> 01:22:14.780]  [GILADRAZEN]: But do they enforce that?
[01:22:15.120 --> 01:22:19.020]  [GILADRAZEN]: I mean, like, when you're talking about sponsored content in TV, specifically, like...
[01:22:19.020 --> 01:22:19.340]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm not.
[01:22:19.360 --> 01:22:20.300]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm talking about the apps.
[01:22:20.440 --> 01:22:22.380]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm saying that it is a guideline.
[01:22:22.940 --> 01:22:24.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mentioned it, and yet they're supposed to.
[01:22:25.040 --> 01:22:26.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: They're not always, obviously.
[01:22:26.160 --> 01:22:26.700]  [GILADRAZEN]: They're supposed to.
[01:22:26.840 --> 01:22:34.900]  [GILADRAZEN]: But, like, if you are in the middle of a Saturday Night Live sketch, and you realize that this is actually sponsored content for Taco Bell, I don't know.
[01:22:35.160 --> 01:22:37.360]  [GILADRAZEN]: But they didn't say it was SpawnCon for Taco Bell.
[01:22:37.660 --> 01:22:37.920]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I see.
[01:22:38.220 --> 01:22:40.400]  [GILADRAZEN]: SpawnCon is absolutely insidious.
[01:22:40.400 --> 01:22:42.740]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Well, and it is incredibly hard to discern.
[01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:43.520]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Go ahead.
[01:22:44.340 --> 01:22:45.340]  [KYLEDROSDK]: No, that was...
[01:22:45.340 --> 01:22:45.880]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[01:22:45.880 --> 01:22:47.140]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I was just pointing to make a point.
[01:22:47.160 --> 01:22:48.320]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You can't really tell.
[01:22:48.580 --> 01:22:51.350]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I mean, there's, like, so many...
[01:22:53.140 --> 01:23:03.280]  [KYLEDROSDK]: The type of advertising now, there's a lot of, like, breaking the fourth wall, and, like, the consumer being in on things, knowing what's going on.
[01:23:03.280 --> 01:23:06.400]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Um, anyway, we can talk about advertising another time.
[01:23:06.980 --> 01:23:11.140]  [KYLEDROSDK]: But, um, anyway, that, that, uh, that is a factor to it.
[01:23:11.160 --> 01:23:11.920]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I think we have a call.
[01:23:11.920 --> 01:23:13.480]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yes, we have a patient caller who's been waiting.
[01:23:14.660 --> 01:23:15.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good God.
[01:23:16.000 --> 01:23:20.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, and, uh, that's what happens when we turn a new button up on the, uh, on the board.
[01:23:20.500 --> 01:23:22.720]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So maybe turn the Skype channel down just a little bit.
[01:23:22.980 --> 01:23:24.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, Skype goes down a little.
[01:23:24.580 --> 01:23:27.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: See, this is where everything gets screwed up when we introduce a new...
[01:23:27.000 --> 01:23:27.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm going to turn your headphones...
[01:23:27.880 --> 01:23:28.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm going to try this again.
[01:23:28.600 --> 01:23:29.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: Try that once more.
[01:23:29.380 --> 01:23:29.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:23:29.900 --> 01:23:30.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think we have a caller.
[01:23:30.920 --> 01:23:31.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Is there a caller there?
[01:23:32.700 --> 01:23:34.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello, yes.
[01:23:34.360 --> 01:23:34.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: How you doing, Ellen?
[01:23:36.120 --> 01:23:36.720]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Hello?
[01:23:36.860 --> 01:23:37.060]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yes.
[01:23:37.800 --> 01:23:38.660]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Caller, we...
[01:23:38.660 --> 01:23:39.640]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Go ahead.
[01:23:40.660 --> 01:23:42.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, this is Eleanor.
[01:23:43.140 --> 01:23:44.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: You are correct.
[01:23:44.780 --> 01:23:49.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, I had, uh, two different things I wanted to ask you about.
[01:23:49.480 --> 01:23:50.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or maybe three.
[01:23:50.820 --> 01:23:51.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[01:23:51.260 --> 01:23:57.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, um, I got back from a trip to find out that my long distance had been cut off.
[01:23:58.400 --> 01:24:01.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, I got WorldCom through MCI.
[01:24:01.880 --> 01:24:06.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: And MCI won't talk to me because I don't know my account number.
[01:24:06.440 --> 01:24:07.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wait, MCI still exists?
[01:24:08.680 --> 01:24:09.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes.
[01:24:09.280 --> 01:24:10.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: I thought they're part of Verizon, though.
[01:24:13.600 --> 01:24:14.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, no.
[01:24:15.140 --> 01:24:16.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: What year is this?
[01:24:18.200 --> 01:24:36.140]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Is, is this basically amounted to a line on your, your phone company bill, and you pursued why it was cut off, and then, um, they told you that they cut themselves off by going bankrupt or something, or getting bought?
[01:24:37.940 --> 01:24:45.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, they, they won't talk to me because I don't have my, I don't have, uh, the account number handy.
[01:24:46.140 --> 01:24:50.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Somebody else pays my bills, and they haven't been able to find it.
[01:24:51.200 --> 01:24:53.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and they won't deal with me.
[01:24:53.280 --> 01:24:57.960]  [KYLEDROSDK]: The service would have been on your traditional phone bill, the previous one, before you upgraded?
[01:24:58.560 --> 01:24:59.800]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Before you were upgraded.
[01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:01.340]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Before you were forced to upgrade?
[01:25:02.300 --> 01:25:04.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was forced to upgrade, yeah.
[01:25:04.980 --> 01:25:07.960]  [KYLEDROSDK]: My, my question is, there's not a separate account or something?
[01:25:07.960 --> 01:25:11.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, was it billed through your, your, your regular phone bill before?
[01:25:12.300 --> 01:25:19.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know, because as I said, somebody else, uh, does the phone bill paying, and they haven't been able to find it.
[01:25:20.080 --> 01:25:23.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you know what, you can always change your long distance company, that'll teach them.
[01:25:24.720 --> 01:25:38.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, well, I, I wanted to keep the, the deal that I got, well, at least many years ago, and it gives me a, a flat fee for each phone call instead of paying by the minute.
[01:25:38.760 --> 01:25:42.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: You don't think there's another deal like that out there in all the long distance companies that exist?
[01:25:43.980 --> 01:25:44.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[01:25:45.260 --> 01:25:46.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: I, I haven't searched through it.
[01:25:46.800 --> 01:25:48.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: I just want to keep what I had.
[01:25:48.380 --> 01:25:48.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh-huh.
[01:25:49.180 --> 01:25:49.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Very simple.
[01:25:50.160 --> 01:26:01.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you know, it seems like, um, if, if, if you call this company and say, look, call me back on my phone number, and, uh, you know, obviously I'm who I say I am, uh, we need to reset certain things.
[01:26:01.380 --> 01:26:04.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: Just basically, say there was a fire and you lost all your paperwork.
[01:26:04.920 --> 01:26:05.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: He can lie.
[01:26:05.800 --> 01:26:07.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: He can come up with all kinds of different stories.
[01:26:08.620 --> 01:26:09.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, uh, you know...
[01:26:09.780 --> 01:26:10.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: They won't do it.
[01:26:11.340 --> 01:26:12.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: I, I can't believe that.
[01:26:13.100 --> 01:26:13.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: I really can't.
[01:26:14.720 --> 01:26:15.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hmm.
[01:26:15.560 --> 01:26:17.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, you know, if it's physically impossible...
[01:26:17.480 --> 01:26:18.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, you can't help me.
[01:26:18.360 --> 01:26:25.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I'm, I'm just saying it doesn't seem to track, because what if, what if the person that pays your bills is no longer on this earth?
[01:26:25.560 --> 01:26:25.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay?
[01:26:25.780 --> 01:26:26.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: What if that happens?
[01:26:26.900 --> 01:26:28.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, what are we supposed to do then?
[01:26:28.320 --> 01:26:32.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: Are they saying that there's nothing we can do and you're, you're basically tied to us forever?
[01:26:32.680 --> 01:26:32.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what they're saying.
[01:26:33.520 --> 01:26:35.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, then you're talking to the wrong person.
[01:26:35.200 --> 01:26:36.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: Ask to speak to a supervisor.
[01:26:38.020 --> 01:26:43.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've, I've tried, uh, hasn't, hasn't worked out for me yet.
[01:26:43.160 --> 01:26:43.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh-huh.
[01:26:43.700 --> 01:26:43.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[01:26:43.980 --> 01:26:45.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: Any listeners out there, have advice?
[01:26:46.000 --> 01:26:52.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: A separate, um, uh, related to the, uh, forcible upgrade.
[01:26:53.220 --> 01:27:04.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: This box that they gave me for if there's a, um, if the electricity goes out, it only works if you have a corded phone.
[01:27:05.240 --> 01:27:09.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: And what I have is, uh, two handsets.
[01:27:10.160 --> 01:27:20.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is there such a thing, do you know, as, as, um, being able to have one handset and one corded phone for the same phone number?
[01:27:23.950 --> 01:27:24.470]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[01:27:24.730 --> 01:27:34.310]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Uh, it sounds like if you have, um, like, uh, wireless base station and a, uh, uh, you're talking about a, an indoor wireless handset, right?
[01:27:34.550 --> 01:27:35.490]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You have two of those?
[01:27:36.110 --> 01:27:36.630]  Yeah.
[01:27:36.890 --> 01:27:52.430]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So wherever there might be another jack for your telephone in the wall, I, I would imagine you could hook up a, uh, uh, like a slimline or just a small, um, telephone that is wired versus that handset.
[01:27:52.750 --> 01:27:55.930]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Um, there's all kinds of little accessories and stuff.
[01:27:55.930 --> 01:28:04.350]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You might be, you might, um, need to make, uh, multiple plugs out of one, like get splitters and things like that.
[01:28:04.490 --> 01:28:06.170]  [KYLEDROSDK]: But, um, it's certainly possible.
[01:28:07.470 --> 01:28:07.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:28:07.950 --> 01:28:33.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, my separate question, um, uh, has nothing to do with me personally, is, uh, about, uh, the wretched, uh, Pacifica safety net people, uh, that have, uh, asked the FCC not to renew WBAI's license and, uh, complaining about Gary Knoll and Christine Blasdale and you,
[01:28:33.310 --> 01:28:33.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Emmanuel.
[01:28:34.030 --> 01:28:35.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, that was funny, wasn't it?
[01:28:35.390 --> 01:28:37.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, uh, yeah, it's, it's not so funny.
[01:28:37.930 --> 01:28:48.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's something we really know a whole lot about, but yeah, it's, it's, um, some, some wacky people are going around trying to get WBAI taken off the air.
[01:28:48.610 --> 01:28:59.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, unfortunately, as is so typical with the left, uh, they're affiliated with Pacifica already and they want to take down another part of Pacifica because it's not part of their faction or something like that.
[01:28:59.750 --> 01:29:02.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know why we're included in this.
[01:29:02.210 --> 01:29:03.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: I really don't, um...
[01:29:03.990 --> 01:29:13.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they're accusing you of, uh, hawking the HOPE conference, which is for profit, uh, which you own.
[01:29:13.990 --> 01:29:21.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, well, all we do is, uh, talk, like we do with, uh, 2600 meetings, like we do with, uh, every, uh, activity that we're involved in.
[01:29:21.970 --> 01:29:22.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: We let people know about it.
[01:29:23.010 --> 01:29:29.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, and most of the time we're trying to get people to, um, uh, to participate, to speak, to, uh, you know, engage in some way.
[01:29:29.570 --> 01:29:30.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not about selling tickets.
[01:29:30.650 --> 01:29:34.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: We tell people, go to the website for more information, including tickets.
[01:29:34.110 --> 01:29:36.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, it's there, but we never, ever give prices out over the air.
[01:29:37.110 --> 01:29:39.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, and, you know, we, we're very aware of the rules.
[01:29:39.970 --> 01:29:41.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: We've been doing it this way for decades.
[01:29:41.850 --> 01:29:46.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, it just seems whoever is, is filing this is, is, is grasping at straws.
[01:29:46.410 --> 01:29:48.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: I can't speak to, you know, the other parts of the complaint.
[01:29:48.510 --> 01:29:51.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know enough about it, but I do know our operation.
[01:29:51.350 --> 01:29:52.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: I do know what we do.
[01:29:52.530 --> 01:29:55.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I do know that we're above board and we know the rules.
[01:29:55.210 --> 01:29:57.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: We've been at this for a very long time.
[01:29:57.450 --> 01:30:00.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, and like I said, it's kind of funny.
[01:30:00.150 --> 01:30:05.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know, you know, what they're, what they're trying to accomplish, but, um, we're, we're quite confident.
[01:30:05.170 --> 01:30:12.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: As you can hear, you know, we're saying the exact same things on the air now that we said before, uh, as far as, because we're on, on level ground here.
[01:30:12.990 --> 01:30:14.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're doing everything by the book.
[01:30:14.530 --> 01:30:16.290]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And there's so many things that...
[01:30:16.290 --> 01:30:22.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you make, do you make a profit from, from selling tickets to the HOPE conference?
[01:30:22.570 --> 01:30:24.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: I, personally, I don't make a penny.
[01:30:24.670 --> 01:30:29.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: And anything that comes in that's above our expenses goes right back into the conference.
[01:30:30.010 --> 01:30:32.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, and that's, you know, that's just how we've always operated.
[01:30:33.530 --> 01:30:43.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, uh, the only people who make money off of this are the people who run the venues, people who, um, uh, sell food or, or, uh, you know, other things to our attendees.
[01:30:44.390 --> 01:30:51.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: But, um, we're just trying to, we're just trying to, uh, uh, break even, make sure that we don't lose our shirts and make sure we're able to do it again.
[01:30:51.930 --> 01:30:56.890]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And so many of the things that we're doing on air are for fundraising efforts at the station.
[01:30:57.130 --> 01:31:15.910]  [KYLEDROSDK]: A lot of, uh, the things that we come up with for the, for the premium gifts, our donations themselves, we're constantly interviewing people, uh, outside the New York area, people from around the world, people, um, in the local community trying to get their voices out there,
[01:31:16.070 --> 01:31:18.730]  [KYLEDROSDK]: promote the things that they're doing, the events that they're hosting.
[01:31:18.730 --> 01:31:35.870]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So it's kind of, um, more of, uh, exactly what we've, uh, stayed committed to for so long about, uh, sharing and, uh, presenting what the hacker community is up to, to, uh, the wider, uh, uh, listening area.
[01:31:36.010 --> 01:31:37.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: And here's something else too.
[01:31:37.310 --> 01:31:40.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, we basically, we, we try to include as many people as possible.
[01:31:40.310 --> 01:31:41.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: We try to give back as much as possible.
[01:31:42.070 --> 01:31:53.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, when it comes to fundraising at the radio station, what we do is we, we donate our premiums, meaning whether it's, uh, tickets, whether it's DVDs, whether it's flash drives, whether it's, it's shirts.
[01:31:54.050 --> 01:32:04.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, what, what, uh, many producers at many radio stations do is, um, is give premiums to the station, but then they bill the station, uh, a discounted rate for those premiums.
[01:32:04.590 --> 01:32:05.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: So it's not really a donation.
[01:32:05.730 --> 01:32:07.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's more like, uh, at cost sale.
[01:32:07.910 --> 01:32:10.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: In our case, it's always 100% donation.
[01:32:11.450 --> 01:32:14.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, uh, that, that is our, our way of supporting the radio station.
[01:32:14.930 --> 01:32:25.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it works, you know, if, if you really want to support the place that you're broadcasting, then you have to actually make a donation, not just sell something to them for, uh, a lesser cost.
[01:32:25.790 --> 01:32:30.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, that's always been my impression of what non-commercial radio should be all about.
[01:32:33.730 --> 01:32:45.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Has anybody come, you know, any of the people on our side come around to, to talk with you about defending this petition to deny?
[01:32:46.050 --> 01:32:53.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I, I'm not going to go into details as to who I've talked to and who I haven't talked to or what they said, but basically, um, uh, everyone has been very supportive.
[01:32:53.450 --> 01:32:59.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, I, I think, I think we all share, uh, a bit of disbelief at how ridiculous this is.
[01:32:59.150 --> 01:33:11.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: The thing that that's annoying is that, uh, and maybe Alex can speak to this when, uh, these kinds of frivolous complaints are filed, uh, it gets expensive because you have to defend yourself, even if it's complete nonsense.
[01:33:12.670 --> 01:33:24.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, um, you know, there should be some kind of insurance that protects you against that sort of thing, but there's absolutely nothing that you can do to prevent it because there are these crackpots out there that will simply come up with all kinds of craziness.
[01:33:25.230 --> 01:33:28.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, um, uh, you know, you can't just not show up.
[01:33:28.470 --> 01:33:36.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: You have to say something, you have to, you know, pay somebody to do, you know, the defense to prove that you're, um, uh, you're in the right.
[01:33:36.630 --> 01:33:39.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: And then when you're exonerated, uh, you're still out that money.
[01:33:40.050 --> 01:33:45.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not like you have to, the people make the, um, uh, the, um, uh, accusations are responsible.
[01:33:45.970 --> 01:33:47.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: So it's, it's really...
[01:33:47.030 --> 01:33:48.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they're trying to bleed us.
[01:33:48.890 --> 01:33:49.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:33:49.330 --> 01:33:51.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think that that is what we're really looking at here.
[01:33:51.450 --> 01:33:57.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: And when you look at, um, uh, the people that supposedly are behind this, they've been trying to do this for years.
[01:33:57.290 --> 01:33:58.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know why.
[01:33:58.170 --> 01:34:04.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know what gets into someone's head that would make them want to destroy a part of a network that they belong or they did belong to.
[01:34:05.390 --> 01:34:11.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe it's, it's, it's, uh, some kind of disgruntled people that no longer have the positions they had in the past.
[01:34:11.750 --> 01:34:12.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know.
[01:34:12.290 --> 01:34:12.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't care.
[01:34:13.390 --> 01:34:20.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: This, you know, we just want to do what we do and, and, and, and be left alone by people who have all these, uh, ridiculous fights going on.
[01:34:20.970 --> 01:34:22.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: Alex, do you have anything to add to this?
[01:34:23.970 --> 01:34:24.630]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, sure.
[01:34:24.850 --> 01:34:35.910]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, I, I think with respect to your point about this being a, uh, or rather, um, having to defend yourself from nuisance suits and there, there should be some kind of rule against this.
[01:34:36.010 --> 01:34:46.590]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, it's, it's a very interesting policy choice that we've made in the United States, you know, about litigation and, and who funds it and who has to bear their costs.
[01:34:46.590 --> 01:35:03.810]  [ALEXURBELS]: So there's a very rare instance in a lawsuit that, uh, a party who's granted attorney's fees, everybody asks for attorney's fees at the end of, uh, or at, you know, once a case has, has gone to some kind of disposition, the winner's going to ask for their attorney's fees.
[01:35:03.930 --> 01:35:04.670]  [ALEXURBELS]: They're never granted.
[01:35:04.870 --> 01:35:18.390]  [ALEXURBELS]: They're very, very rarely granted as a matter of course, because we have made this policy choice a very long time ago in the United States that parties have to fund their own litigation in the UK, it's exactly the opposite.
[01:35:18.650 --> 01:35:27.330]  [ALEXURBELS]: And it acts as a disincentive to filing a frivolous lawsuit because they have something known as the, a loser pays model.
[01:35:27.730 --> 01:35:33.250]  [ALEXURBELS]: So that let's say, you know, I'm in litigation with, uh, I don't know, Alex Jones, right?
[01:35:33.830 --> 01:35:41.450]  [ALEXURBELS]: And, uh, you know, we're, we're fighting each other long, hard fought battle and I win and we've been fighting for two years.
[01:35:41.450 --> 01:35:46.570]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, Alex Jones then is on the hook for all of my legal fees because he put me...
[01:35:46.570 --> 01:35:46.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good, good.
[01:35:46.670 --> 01:35:47.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: He deserves to be.
[01:35:48.110 --> 01:35:49.290]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, he should be, yeah.
[01:35:49.370 --> 01:35:51.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: Let that bastard rot in jail, I say.
[01:35:52.090 --> 01:35:53.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: For, for not paying.
[01:35:53.290 --> 01:35:53.430]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:35:54.410 --> 01:36:08.410]  [ALEXURBELS]: The, um, you know, the downside of this too, though, is in a loser pays model, as opposed to the funding your own litigation side, once you get so far into the litigation, once you've sunk a certain amount of costs, it then becomes difficult to walk away.
[01:36:08.410 --> 01:36:11.510]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's like being at the casino, in a sense.
[01:36:11.630 --> 01:36:12.510]  [ALEXURBELS]: You have to keep going.
[01:36:12.650 --> 01:36:13.950]  [ALEXURBELS]: You got to keep chasing those losses.
[01:36:14.130 --> 01:36:19.270]  [ALEXURBELS]: You can't afford to walk away and then cover the other side's costs because you already sunk so much into it.
[01:36:19.450 --> 01:36:26.210]  [ALEXURBELS]: So it's, it's hard, it's a very hard balancing act, I think, uh, uh, to figure out, you know, what the right policy is.
[01:36:26.350 --> 01:36:35.470]  [ALEXURBELS]: But, you know, going back to, to the merits of this particular accusation with regard to Pacifica, I think we should just let it run its course.
[01:36:35.950 --> 01:36:40.310]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, I don't want to speak to the facts or to the merits, uh, at all on this.
[01:36:40.410 --> 01:36:42.570]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think we should, uh, I think we should move on.
[01:36:43.030 --> 01:36:45.270]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, you know, no, no disrespect to the caller.
[01:36:45.490 --> 01:36:46.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't mind talking about it.
[01:36:46.950 --> 01:36:53.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, you know, it's, if someone accuses us of something, I'll, I, you know, I'm, I'm an open book as far as, uh, this kind of thing goes.
[01:36:53.470 --> 01:36:54.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think we all are.
[01:36:54.550 --> 01:36:55.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, it's nonsense.
[01:36:55.570 --> 01:37:00.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: But, uh, caller, uh, you, you seem to know more about, uh, who's behind it than, than we do.
[01:37:00.530 --> 01:37:03.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: We just, you know, saw some ridiculous, uh...
[01:37:03.210 --> 01:37:04.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, Sherry, Gelt, and Dorman.
[01:37:04.870 --> 01:37:07.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: I, I, I don't mean, I don't mean the specific names of people.
[01:37:07.090 --> 01:37:08.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, what do they represent?
[01:37:10.370 --> 01:37:14.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, quote, Pacifica Safety Net.
[01:37:14.730 --> 01:37:15.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: And what is that?
[01:37:15.550 --> 01:37:22.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: The people who tried to put, uh, uh, Pacifica in, I think it's receivership?
[01:37:23.490 --> 01:37:29.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: Are, are, are these, are these the same people who, who, uh, took the station off the air in 2019?
[01:37:30.050 --> 01:37:31.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: You got it.
[01:37:31.330 --> 01:37:32.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, so that's significant right there.
[01:37:34.130 --> 01:37:47.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, that's, that's significant that it's the people that actually came in and took the station off the air in 2019 and lost in court, uh, when, when, uh, it was challenged and WBAI went back on the air, you know, a few weeks later.
[01:37:47.650 --> 01:37:50.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: But, boy, those were some dark days.
[01:37:50.250 --> 01:37:52.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, okay, you know, it kind of makes sense now.
[01:37:53.130 --> 01:37:58.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, we sort of embarrassed them quite a bit, actually, on, on, um, our airway.
[01:37:58.470 --> 01:37:59.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: It was online.
[01:37:59.550 --> 01:38:04.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: We did a show from downstairs in the commons at, um, Atlantic Avenue, where, where WBAI is.
[01:38:05.250 --> 01:38:08.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, uh, we broadcast that online and we challenged these people.
[01:38:08.830 --> 01:38:14.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, um, you know, we, we, we basically said we're not, we're not going to, uh, play ball with people like this.
[01:38:14.490 --> 01:38:20.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: I, I, I believe we were offered to, uh, go back on the air if we didn't criticize them.
[01:38:20.250 --> 01:38:22.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: I remember, I remember that kind of a statement being made.
[01:38:23.090 --> 01:38:25.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, and of course we refused to do that.
[01:38:25.150 --> 01:38:36.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, I think, I think there's a lot of, um, uh, animosity towards us because we didn't back down because we expressed us, you know, the same reasons as always for, for speaking out on what you believe in.
[01:38:37.050 --> 01:38:40.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's when the people who want to shut you down always strike for that.
[01:38:41.450 --> 01:38:49.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Does anyone know who Paul Lansbergis or Nancy Cohen or Michael Herko are?
[01:38:49.350 --> 01:38:51.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: No, I have no idea who those people are.
[01:38:51.330 --> 01:38:52.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: Why are you looking for them?
[01:38:53.330 --> 01:39:03.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, the, they're the three people in the WBAI listening area who are supporters of the petition.
[01:39:03.670 --> 01:39:04.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: What do you mean three?
[01:39:05.010 --> 01:39:06.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's only three people who support the petition?
[01:39:06.730 --> 01:39:09.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's only, yeah, you heard correctly.
[01:39:09.730 --> 01:39:15.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: There are exactly three people, uh, in this Pacific and safety net.
[01:39:15.870 --> 01:39:20.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hank, is, is this to fulfill some sort of legal obligation that you have to have a supporter in the local area?
[01:39:21.650 --> 01:39:22.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: Right.
[01:39:22.370 --> 01:39:22.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:39:22.850 --> 01:39:24.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, who knows?
[01:39:24.330 --> 01:39:25.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe they don't exist.
[01:39:25.190 --> 01:39:25.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe they do.
[01:39:25.930 --> 01:39:28.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, it's not hard to find three people to sign on to anything.
[01:39:28.830 --> 01:39:32.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, um, who they are, I don't think really is, is, is that relevant?
[01:39:33.350 --> 01:39:42.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, if they could, if those three people could be persuaded to, uh, uh, to leave the suit...
[01:39:42.430 --> 01:39:43.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: They'd just find three more.
[01:39:43.810 --> 01:39:46.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: They, they, they would just find, you know, they'd pay off people.
[01:39:46.970 --> 01:39:47.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: Who knows?
[01:39:48.270 --> 01:39:51.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's, um, I don't think that's, that's the way you fight this.
[01:39:52.830 --> 01:39:53.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[01:39:54.910 --> 01:39:55.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: Gila, did you have something?
[01:39:56.010 --> 01:39:56.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: It looks like you had something to say.
[01:39:57.970 --> 01:39:58.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: No?
[01:39:58.530 --> 01:39:58.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:39:58.810 --> 01:39:58.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: Sorry.
[01:40:00.030 --> 01:40:01.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Does Alex agree with you?
[01:40:02.030 --> 01:40:02.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't, I don't know.
[01:40:03.010 --> 01:40:04.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: Alex is in lawyer mode now, I think.
[01:40:06.030 --> 01:40:06.510]  Ha ha.
[01:40:07.050 --> 01:40:09.690]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, you know, possibly.
[01:40:09.910 --> 01:40:17.370]  [ALEXURBELS]: I, I don't know if they'll pay people off or, or do any, I wouldn't, I wouldn't suggest anything like that, but I think the, uh...
[01:40:17.370 --> 01:40:18.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think they might threaten people.
[01:40:18.670 --> 01:40:22.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think they might threaten to kill their, their, their parents, you know, if they don't sign on.
[01:40:22.850 --> 01:40:23.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: Am I going too far?
[01:40:23.930 --> 01:40:25.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: Am I saying things I shouldn't say?
[01:40:25.250 --> 01:40:27.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, I don't have an off switch.
[01:40:27.270 --> 01:40:27.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm sorry.
[01:40:28.330 --> 01:40:31.610]  [ALEXURBELS]: You're, as long as you preface it with, you know, I, I believe you more.
[01:40:31.690 --> 01:40:32.810]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's my opinion, right?
[01:40:32.950 --> 01:40:35.050]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, you, which I'm sure you meant to do.
[01:40:35.690 --> 01:40:36.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, yeah.
[01:40:36.430 --> 01:40:36.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:40:36.830 --> 01:40:37.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: I could, I could say that too.
[01:40:38.570 --> 01:40:39.590]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, yeah.
[01:40:39.830 --> 01:40:43.070]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's then, then look, then you're entitled to your, uh, your, your opinion there.
[01:40:43.070 --> 01:40:51.670]  [ALEXURBELS]: But I, I, I think to, to get at the point at which you're driving at, I think, which is that it's easy to find people to sign onto these things.
[01:40:51.850 --> 01:40:52.650]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think you're right.
[01:40:52.650 --> 01:40:58.630]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think if, if these individuals drop the suit, they will probably find others to pick it up.
[01:40:58.910 --> 01:41:02.410]  [ALEXURBELS]: Um, you know, especially if the threshold number is so low.
[01:41:02.810 --> 01:41:14.490]  [ALEXURBELS]: Um, and if that's the case, I mean, I, I wonder about the, the wisdom of the, uh, procedural choices that we've, we've made to, to bring these types of challenges, uh, over to the FCC.
[01:41:14.690 --> 01:41:16.510]  [ALEXURBELS]: Anyhow, it seems sort of nonsensical.
[01:41:17.110 --> 01:41:30.450]  [ALEXURBELS]: Um, but I, I, you know, I, I think, um, I, I think that the more we give this thing oxygen, the more it, you know, it can have legs.
[01:41:30.530 --> 01:41:34.810]  [ALEXURBELS]: And so I think that, you know, we should starve this nonsense of oxygen.
[01:41:35.750 --> 01:41:36.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:41:36.190 --> 01:41:42.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, um, uh, hopefully the FCC feels the same way because they're the ones that currently have this, this complaint, I believe.
[01:41:43.030 --> 01:41:45.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I, I honestly don't see it going anywhere.
[01:41:45.290 --> 01:41:47.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: Not as, certainly not as far as we're concerned.
[01:41:48.710 --> 01:41:59.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, yeah, well, I don't think it, I find it hard, uh, to understand how they could lump you in with Gary now and Christine Blasdale.
[01:41:59.910 --> 01:42:02.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: I, I think it's, it's probably a personal thing.
[01:42:02.410 --> 01:42:15.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's probably because, uh, we were outspoken and, you know, when, when, when the same thing happened in the coup of, um, of, uh, 2000 and 2001, uh, basically we didn't play ball then.
[01:42:16.150 --> 01:42:27.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, and, uh, we weren't friends with the people who were occupying the station, even though we managed to stay on the air, we were, we never signed on to the nonsense that they expected us to.
[01:42:27.830 --> 01:42:32.770]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And mind you, we don't want to be, uh, in a position where we're having to take sides.
[01:42:32.790 --> 01:42:41.650]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We just want to do the radio show, you know, make some kind of, uh, uh, fundraising goal when it's time, you know, to raise money for the station.
[01:42:41.810 --> 01:42:45.370]  [KYLEDROSDK]: But beyond that, we don't interface with much else there.
[01:42:45.550 --> 01:42:46.830]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It was never the point.
[01:42:47.050 --> 01:43:02.770]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So these age old battles where it makes no sense to us because at every moment, when it comes to how does the show inter interact with the station, we turn, we, we approach that moment anew, even if we're behind on the last premiums, we approach that moment,
[01:43:02.770 --> 01:43:03.630]  [KYLEDROSDK]: moment anew.
[01:43:03.810 --> 01:43:08.430]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We say, uh, collectively, what can we do to contribute to this goal?
[01:43:08.690 --> 01:43:19.490]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And we try to get our listeners as invigorated and excited and interested and engaged in that particular, uh, need for the station.
[01:43:19.890 --> 01:43:26.530]  [KYLEDROSDK]: What this group is doing, these kinds of actions are, it's a perennial thing.
[01:43:26.650 --> 01:43:27.330]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It's unfortunate.
[01:43:27.510 --> 01:43:43.710]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We've seen this kind of stuff and it's people that take a look at that situation, that moment when we're saying, Hey, we need to get some new producers or we need to get some more, um, um, uh, outside donations or, uh, donations that are continuous, uh,
[01:43:44.130 --> 01:43:53.710]  [KYLEDROSDK]: uh, billing, you know, that kind of, uh, BI buddy program, all those ideas and programs and getting, um, fresh shows on fresh programs.
[01:43:53.930 --> 01:43:58.770]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Um, you know, really even just having a vision for the station collectively.
[01:43:59.710 --> 01:44:05.770]  [KYLEDROSDK]: This group is people that take a look at that moment and just say, no, let's, uh, let's start over.
[01:44:05.910 --> 01:44:07.030]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We don't want to do this.
[01:44:07.150 --> 01:44:15.810]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We don't want to, we don't want to have any kind of altruistic belief in the, the community that we've created or that is here.
[01:44:15.830 --> 01:44:19.710]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And, and that is dangerous because that is a fragile thing.
[01:44:19.810 --> 01:44:23.210]  [KYLEDROSDK]: That community is, it's, uh, ethereal.
[01:44:23.430 --> 01:44:24.350]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It's in the vapor.
[01:44:24.590 --> 01:44:27.630]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It is not something tangible.
[01:44:27.670 --> 01:44:38.310]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It is a collection of people that show up, that do stuff and that believe, even if they're not like the other programmers at the station, believe in the concept of it.
[01:44:38.670 --> 01:45:00.670]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And this grievance, whether it's, you know, uh, personal, uh, um, uh, histories or, um, people that didn't, um, that, that feel that maybe the station hasn't provided the right direction and, and, and they aren't touched, moved and inspired and move and willing to be on board for what the station needs,
[01:45:00.970 --> 01:45:04.450]  [KYLEDROSDK]: even if it sounds dire or crazy or like, it's not enough.
[01:45:04.930 --> 01:45:22.170]  [KYLEDROSDK]: This attitude that, oh, well, it isn't enough or it's not my way, or I don't like the people involved, or I think that there are, um, you know, one or two programs at the station that, that are dragging the whole place down or, or whatever is made up in their head,
[01:45:22.330 --> 01:45:32.430]  [KYLEDROSDK]: their response is let's tear it apart, let's burn it down and let's guilt and blame every last person that doesn't approve of that.
[01:45:32.430 --> 01:45:34.230]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We were one of those groups.
[01:45:34.230 --> 01:45:35.350]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We said, you know what?
[01:45:35.450 --> 01:45:36.870]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We're going to continue to be here.
[01:45:36.990 --> 01:45:50.230]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We're going to continue to contribute in that altruistic way, be a part of WBAI, do our best to continue it in the grandest tradition that anybody else who's been on that radio station has done in the past.
[01:45:50.230 --> 01:45:51.770]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We don't want to tear it down.
[01:45:51.930 --> 01:45:53.950]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And there are people that they're just uncreative.
[01:45:54.110 --> 01:45:55.290]  [KYLEDROSDK]: They don't want to do the work.
[01:45:55.370 --> 01:45:56.390]  [KYLEDROSDK]: They don't want to find premiums.
[01:45:56.450 --> 01:46:00.950]  [KYLEDROSDK]: They don't want to make new shows that can compete, that can get listeners.
[01:46:01.170 --> 01:46:02.330]  [KYLEDROSDK]: They don't want to do that work.
[01:46:02.750 --> 01:46:15.070]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Their idea of, of a better job at this, uh, programming and, and this station is to tear it down, to syndicate other stuff and, or to sell the frequency altogether.
[01:46:15.070 --> 01:46:15.590]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[01:46:15.970 --> 01:46:17.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, that says a lot right there.
[01:46:17.410 --> 01:46:27.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it says that we have pissed off the right people too, because if this is the modus operandi, then, um, uh, we, we want nothing to do with that kind of thinking at all.
[01:46:27.890 --> 01:46:36.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, we've always, like I said, we've been an open book, every single one of our shows online, uh, you know, to, uh, to show exactly what we say and what we don't say.
[01:46:37.230 --> 01:46:38.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, and, and, and we're proud of that.
[01:46:39.070 --> 01:46:41.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're quite proud of, uh, the things that we've covered in the past.
[01:46:41.630 --> 01:46:43.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it's not without controversy.
[01:46:43.050 --> 01:46:51.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: We've been threatened many times by, uh, government agencies, uh, by, uh, other people that don't like what it is we're talking about.
[01:46:51.610 --> 01:46:54.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: People think that we're too political or that we have the wrong politics.
[01:46:55.190 --> 01:47:01.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, the important thing is to, as, as we've said in the previous show, hold true to your ideals and, uh, be honest with yourself.
[01:47:01.990 --> 01:47:04.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I think, uh, we can all say that we've done that.
[01:47:05.590 --> 01:47:06.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: I hope that answers your question.
[01:47:09.030 --> 01:47:09.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:47:10.050 --> 01:47:22.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I hope you'll keep us posted, uh, about the case as you are involved in it since, you know, they've dragged you into it whether you wanted or not.
[01:47:22.590 --> 01:47:24.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you actually seem to know more than we do.
[01:47:24.230 --> 01:47:25.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: How, how are you getting the information?
[01:47:27.370 --> 01:47:43.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, the, uh, actually, uh, so, uh, when it first came out, I emailed you, uh, at 2600, uh, the, the papers, the Pacifica Foundation, uh...
[01:47:43.210 --> 01:47:45.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: Right, but you got those papers somehow before we did.
[01:47:45.870 --> 01:47:46.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: How'd you manage that?
[01:47:47.990 --> 01:48:00.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, uh, uh, uh, it was, um, uh, uh, I was part of a, a, a group, um, you know, I get emails from, uh, people who support Pacifica without tearing it down.
[01:48:02.290 --> 01:48:16.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: And so I, I, I was sent, uh, the download thing, which I downloaded and actually read, uh, for, uh, for the actual papers and their actual exhibits.
[01:48:17.310 --> 01:48:18.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: And so I passed them along.
[01:48:19.110 --> 01:48:26.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I went through, I went through some of those exhibits myself, just, uh, had a curiosity and, uh, they have, they have entire shows transcripted.
[01:48:26.810 --> 01:48:27.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's hilarious.
[01:48:28.290 --> 01:48:37.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: I was, I was reading our show and just basically us fumbling with the phone, trying to get things to work and just basically berating each other and having all kinds of fun on the air.
[01:48:37.490 --> 01:48:38.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's just, I couldn't put it down.
[01:48:39.050 --> 01:48:43.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: It was, it was, it was really funny, but, uh, you know, I just...
[01:48:43.150 --> 01:48:46.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: They, they got it from you, from your, uh, from the 2600.
[01:48:46.270 --> 01:48:48.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: Of course, because we have everything available.
[01:48:49.870 --> 01:48:50.310]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yep.
[01:48:50.530 --> 01:48:51.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's what we do.
[01:48:51.730 --> 01:48:52.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: Anyway, anything else?
[01:48:52.910 --> 01:48:54.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, we're going to move on and see if there's anybody else out there.
[01:48:55.190 --> 01:48:56.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: That, that was it.
[01:48:56.790 --> 01:48:57.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:48:57.250 --> 01:48:57.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good evening from you.
[01:48:58.870 --> 01:48:59.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[01:48:59.690 --> 01:48:59.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[01:48:59.830 --> 01:49:00.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: Take care.
[01:49:01.250 --> 01:49:05.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: Our phone number, 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK.
[01:49:06.370 --> 01:49:07.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good fun.
[01:49:08.210 --> 01:49:22.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's just, you know, we try to keep these things off the air, uh, or off the discussion because, you know, it's, I don't want to, I don't want to waste time with our own personal baggage, but this isn't baggage that we asked for.
[01:49:22.370 --> 01:49:25.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's baggage that's been thrust upon us and it's not our baggage.
[01:49:25.370 --> 01:49:26.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: So take it back to the airport.
[01:49:27.550 --> 01:49:28.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's plenty.
[01:49:29.710 --> 01:49:39.070]  [KYLEDROSDK]: There's plenty of, uh, media and, uh, writers out there that had all kinds of, uh, time to write about the demise of WBAI.
[01:49:39.190 --> 01:49:47.330]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Maybe they could, you know, do some research, write an article, investigate a little bit and, uh, celebrate the WBAI is still here.
[01:49:47.530 --> 01:49:48.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: Isn't that something?
[01:49:48.350 --> 01:49:54.230]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And, uh, and it's, it's still sought after even in these, uh, inglorious ways.
[01:49:54.350 --> 01:50:07.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: Do you remember, uh, I think it was October of 2019 when they came for the station and shut it down, locked the change of locks and destroyed equipment and, and, uh, basically literally ripped up papers and made it impossible to operate from that building.
[01:50:08.030 --> 01:50:12.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: Even though we could get into the building, we couldn't operate from there anymore because of the vandalism that these people did.
[01:50:12.910 --> 01:50:24.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: And all of the media in New York city, all of the media showed up and, uh, reported on the demise of WBAI on the air since 1960 and, uh, signing off for the last time in 2019.
[01:50:25.450 --> 01:50:29.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, um, you know, we went to court and we fought a good fight and we won.
[01:50:29.910 --> 01:50:31.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: We came back on the air.
[01:50:31.210 --> 01:50:34.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't think one of those, one of those outlets reported that we were back on the air.
[01:50:35.130 --> 01:50:44.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: So in the eyes of a lot of people, WBAI went off the air in 2019 and never came back, even though we were back on the air a month later, that's, you know, par for the course.
[01:50:45.050 --> 01:50:46.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's just the madness.
[01:50:46.350 --> 01:50:47.310]  [EVILCORLEY]: And yeah, someone should write a book.
[01:50:47.390 --> 01:50:52.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: Someone should do a movie or maybe a, maybe a mini series because let's not make it too long.
[01:50:52.950 --> 01:50:53.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: There is so much drama.
[01:50:54.710 --> 01:50:55.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: Let's take a phone call.
[01:50:56.050 --> 01:50:56.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good evening.
[01:50:56.730 --> 01:50:57.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're on off the hook.
[01:50:58.750 --> 01:50:59.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening, Emmanuel.
[01:51:00.230 --> 01:51:00.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bobson?
[01:51:01.350 --> 01:51:01.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bobson?
[01:51:01.790 --> 01:51:02.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: You heard it.
[01:51:02.570 --> 01:51:02.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:51:03.050 --> 01:51:05.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: The Bulgarian entry from the Eurovision song.
[01:51:06.070 --> 01:51:10.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: Let me ask you, as, as a Bulgarian, did you know that song before I played it?
[01:51:12.150 --> 01:51:15.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I heard it on the show on Tuesday.
[01:51:16.730 --> 01:51:18.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, we didn't play that song on the show.
[01:51:18.530 --> 01:51:21.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, on, on, on Eurovision, on the semifinals.
[01:51:21.530 --> 01:51:23.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: On the Eurovision semifinals.
[01:51:24.010 --> 01:51:24.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: But during, yes.
[01:51:25.190 --> 01:51:28.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: So that's something you actually watch is Eurovision semifinals.
[01:51:30.550 --> 01:51:31.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, yeah.
[01:51:31.730 --> 01:51:31.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:51:32.010 --> 01:51:39.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's, that should show you the importance of Eurovision to people in Europe that Bobson will actually pay attention to it.
[01:51:39.390 --> 01:51:40.310]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I got a question.
[01:51:40.630 --> 01:51:41.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead.
[01:51:41.190 --> 01:51:41.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Kyle.
[01:51:41.610 --> 01:51:41.790]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Hey.
[01:51:42.230 --> 01:51:44.810]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Did you, did you hear it during the year at all?
[01:51:44.950 --> 01:51:48.830]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, you know, in a restaurant or like just in the background?
[01:51:48.930 --> 01:51:53.230]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Because a lot of times the songs are familiar to people because it's played and then...
[01:51:53.230 --> 01:51:55.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, there's, there's nothing like that.
[01:51:56.910 --> 01:51:59.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're kind of unfamiliar with how the whole process works.
[01:51:59.330 --> 01:52:13.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think most people who don't even know about Eurovision, but, you know, we, we saw it for the first time last year and it's just really intriguing to see how, uh, all these countries put forth a song and then there's a, you know, two semifinals and a final,
[01:52:13.490 --> 01:52:16.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: which is taking place on Saturday and everyone seems to pay attention.
[01:52:17.090 --> 01:52:17.190]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[01:52:17.210 --> 01:52:20.350]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I only say that because it seems like some of the songs are really popular going into it.
[01:52:20.550 --> 01:52:20.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:52:26.360 --> 01:52:33.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, well, no, the, the song is weird and the band is kind of strange.
[01:52:34.700 --> 01:52:35.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're doing it.
[01:52:36.440 --> 01:52:38.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, it's a rock and roll song.
[01:52:38.100 --> 01:52:38.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Of course they're strange.
[01:52:40.480 --> 01:52:43.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's not all that's strange about it.
[01:52:43.480 --> 01:52:59.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, one of Rainbow's formal singers came over here and started a band or some such rainbow as in the band that came from deep purple.
[01:53:01.020 --> 01:53:01.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:53:01.880 --> 01:53:02.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Wow.
[01:53:02.400 --> 01:53:13.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, there are four more singers came over here and started doing you know, uh, uh, Richie Blackmore lives on long Island now.
[01:53:13.240 --> 01:53:15.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, uh, he's, he's, he's, uh, fairly local.
[01:53:16.840 --> 01:53:23.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, he knows the, he knows the singer I'm speaking of personally.
[01:53:24.360 --> 01:53:24.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:53:25.620 --> 01:53:26.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's a small community.
[01:53:26.920 --> 01:53:27.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: So that's cool.
[01:53:27.880 --> 01:53:39.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now, um, I should point out just for the benefit of listeners, um, that while I played the Bulgarian song and, and, uh, no offense, Bobson, I do not think the Bulgarian song is the best song of the 40.
[01:53:39.440 --> 01:53:43.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: The one that I think is the best song hands down.
[01:53:43.960 --> 01:53:48.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, well, maybe you want to say what your, what your favorite is first unless it's Bulgaria.
[01:53:48.540 --> 01:53:56.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I've only watched the first semi-final because the second one is going to be shown later today.
[01:53:57.160 --> 01:53:57.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:53:58.160 --> 01:53:59.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, did you have a, a favorite?
[01:54:02.040 --> 01:54:03.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, not yet.
[01:54:03.600 --> 01:54:03.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:54:04.000 --> 01:54:06.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: My favorite Moldova.
[01:54:06.520 --> 01:54:07.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[01:54:07.500 --> 01:54:19.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's all about a train ride from, from Chisnau to, uh, Bucharest, uh, which is the opposite of what Kyle and I did a few years ago, but boy, it captured spirit and it was, it was probably the most unique song in the whole competition.
[01:54:19.600 --> 01:54:21.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: So Moldova, hands down for me.
[01:54:22.640 --> 01:54:22.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:54:23.080 --> 01:54:23.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: I enjoyed that.
[01:54:24.040 --> 01:54:25.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: I remember hearing it.
[01:54:25.880 --> 01:54:26.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: Great video too.
[01:54:29.680 --> 01:54:30.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yep.
[01:54:32.400 --> 01:54:34.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: And of course, Ukraine had a good song as well.
[01:54:34.620 --> 01:54:38.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: Although it sounds like the song from last year, did they repeat part of the song from last year?
[01:54:40.720 --> 01:54:42.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have no idea.
[01:54:42.580 --> 01:54:46.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I, I think there's, I just recognize it and I shouldn't recognize it if it's a new song.
[01:54:56.940 --> 01:54:59.600]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, uh, Bobson, Alex here.
[01:55:00.160 --> 01:55:02.600]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, Coxie Bobson, by the well, by the way.
[01:55:02.740 --> 01:55:03.640]  [ALEXURBELS]: How dare you?
[01:55:04.360 --> 01:55:10.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: He just declared war on his ancestors and called him a water buffalo on top of that.
[01:55:11.140 --> 01:55:11.460]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:55:11.460 --> 01:55:12.140]  [ALEXURBELS]: You think so?
[01:55:12.360 --> 01:55:12.620]  [ALEXURBELS]: Maybe.
[01:55:12.900 --> 01:55:14.600]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, only, only Bobson will know.
[01:55:14.900 --> 01:55:15.240]  [ALEXURBELS]: Right?
[01:55:15.240 --> 01:55:15.340]  [ALEXURBELS]: Right?
[01:55:15.340 --> 01:55:16.140]  [ALEXURBELS]: Right, Bobson?
[01:55:16.360 --> 01:55:18.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean... I'll leave you two to settle that score.
[01:55:18.800 --> 01:55:19.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: But go ahead.
[01:55:19.720 --> 01:55:22.080]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, I answered, I answered your question.
[01:55:23.220 --> 01:55:23.840]  [ALEXURBELS]: You did.
[01:55:23.940 --> 01:55:26.100]  [ALEXURBELS]: I didn't hear it because somebody was talking over you.
[01:55:27.260 --> 01:55:28.080]  [ALEXURBELS]: Oh, okay.
[01:55:28.640 --> 01:55:30.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: Answer his question again, please.
[01:55:32.780 --> 01:55:33.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bivom, T-Caxi.
[01:55:34.840 --> 01:55:35.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:55:35.620 --> 01:55:35.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[01:55:36.180 --> 01:55:36.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Very good.
[01:55:36.780 --> 01:55:36.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[01:55:37.040 --> 01:55:39.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: So it's on at dawn, I guess, is when we'll settle this.
[01:55:40.160 --> 01:55:40.160]  Yeah.
[01:55:40.240 --> 01:55:40.520]  [ALEXURBELS]: All right.
[01:55:40.640 --> 01:55:41.800]  [ALEXURBELS]: Very, very glad to hear that.
[01:55:42.040 --> 01:55:46.340]  [ALEXURBELS]: I'm wondering though, you know, with this whole Eurovision thing, I've never seen any of it.
[01:55:46.480 --> 01:55:47.820]  [ALEXURBELS]: So we're in the finals now?
[01:55:47.960 --> 01:55:50.980]  [ALEXURBELS]: Is this like, you know, like a, uh, where the semifinals are there?
[01:55:51.220 --> 01:55:52.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: The first semifinal was last night.
[01:55:52.880 --> 01:55:55.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: And the next one, I think is, is, is it today?
[01:55:55.440 --> 01:55:56.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: And then the final is Saturday?
[01:55:56.620 --> 01:55:57.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: Is that how it works?
[01:55:58.000 --> 01:55:58.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: What do you mean?
[01:55:58.520 --> 01:55:59.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: How were they just...
[01:55:59.480 --> 01:56:02.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: The second semifinal is on Thursday night.
[01:56:02.620 --> 01:56:03.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: Thursday, okay.
[01:56:03.200 --> 01:56:05.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a European time, of course.
[01:56:05.960 --> 01:56:06.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh-huh.
[01:56:06.220 --> 01:56:09.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's done on Saturday.
[01:56:09.360 --> 01:56:12.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: And Alex, you can see all of the songs on YouTube.
[01:56:12.840 --> 01:56:16.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: Just type in Eurovision 2020 and you'll see something with, with 40 songs.
[01:56:17.220 --> 01:56:18.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm sorry, 2022.
[01:56:18.860 --> 01:56:22.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, you'll see, uh, uh, 40 songs and you can just play them all.
[01:56:22.700 --> 01:56:25.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: It doesn't take very much time because they're all three minutes long.
[01:56:25.040 --> 01:56:26.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: So you get through the whole thing in about two hours.
[01:56:27.240 --> 01:56:33.700]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, I'm, I'm wondering though, and are they judged on the basis of a live version of their song or a recorded version of their song?
[01:56:33.780 --> 01:56:42.460]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I'm imagining this, this room or a concert hall, festooned with the flags of the European Union where everybody goes in and plays on equal footing.
[01:56:42.600 --> 01:56:43.800]  [ALEXURBELS]: But I'm not sure if that's the case.
[01:56:45.820 --> 01:56:57.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, as far as I know, this, every time the location where it's performed is based on last year's winner.
[01:56:57.620 --> 01:56:57.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:56:58.220 --> 01:56:58.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: Last year, Italy won.
[01:56:58.980 --> 01:57:01.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: So last year, last year, Italy won.
[01:57:02.100 --> 01:57:07.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: So this time it's a whole, uh, it's a concert hall in Italy.
[01:57:08.500 --> 01:57:16.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I might add that last year Italy song that won was a rock and roll song, which doesn't happen very often.
[01:57:17.080 --> 01:57:18.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it was.
[01:57:18.840 --> 01:57:19.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, well.
[01:57:21.200 --> 01:57:26.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, so yeah, as far as how it all works, I got very confused by the rules.
[01:57:26.400 --> 01:57:30.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: I know you can't, you know, people vote, people call in, but you can't vote for your own country.
[01:57:31.100 --> 01:57:33.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: You can only vote for other songs from other countries.
[01:57:33.800 --> 01:57:38.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: But then there are other, other ways of voting too, from, I think, expert voters or something.
[01:57:39.100 --> 01:57:40.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not really sure I understand how it works.
[01:57:40.880 --> 01:57:44.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: I do know that last year, somehow the United Kingdom got zero votes.
[01:57:45.440 --> 01:57:53.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: So I don't know how that exactly happened, but it's a weird system, just like most European soccer systems are, are weird in our eyes.
[01:57:57.650 --> 01:58:00.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it's, it's good fun, I think.
[01:58:02.290 --> 01:58:03.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, it's great fun.
[01:58:03.390 --> 01:58:07.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: What I don't understand though, Israel, not in Europe, but they're, uh, they're part of Eurovision.
[01:58:08.410 --> 01:58:11.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: Australia, really not in Europe and they're part of Eurovision.
[01:58:11.570 --> 01:58:14.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe, you know, we could get into Eurovision somehow.
[01:58:14.310 --> 01:58:24.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: I also noticed in this year's competition, there's a lot of songs in English and, um, a lot of songs where there aren't even accents.
[01:58:24.310 --> 01:58:27.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: It seems like, you know, like Belgium and Germany, it seems like Americans.
[01:58:28.070 --> 01:58:36.150]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And a lot of songs where the actor or the singer has a copy of themselves and they're like clones of themselves.
[01:58:36.370 --> 01:58:37.870]  [KYLEDROSDK]: There's a lot of copies of people.
[01:58:38.110 --> 01:58:38.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's videos.
[01:58:38.790 --> 01:58:39.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: Every, every song has a video.
[01:58:40.110 --> 01:58:42.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: Sometimes it's a live performance, but it's still a video.
[01:58:42.390 --> 01:58:49.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: But yeah, as Kyle said, a lot of, uh, the protagonist of these videos in the end, you find out, oh, that person is him.
[01:58:50.310 --> 01:58:51.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's, it's all circular.
[01:58:52.150 --> 01:58:53.350]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It's duplicitousness.
[01:58:54.070 --> 01:58:55.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe it's been done before.
[01:58:55.630 --> 01:59:13.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's just, yeah, some of it's really cheesy, but, um, it's all good fun and it's all, you know, I was just listening, um, before, uh, to BBC radio five, which, uh, I just found out exists and, uh, it's a sports channel and they were having a rousing debate about whether Eurovision was better than Euro.
[01:59:14.050 --> 01:59:24.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: Euro being the, the, uh, the soccer competition takes place every four years, but they were having a good conversation about who has, you know, more affinity to their country and how it, uh, brings out the best in people.
[01:59:25.190 --> 01:59:29.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: Not the kind of sports conversation you hear in America, but it was really kind of interesting to listen to.
[01:59:32.010 --> 01:59:34.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that sounds good.
[01:59:35.470 --> 01:59:35.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: Mm-hmm.
[01:59:37.270 --> 01:59:43.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: I wish I had... Well, you can probably find it online.
[01:59:43.440 --> 01:59:46.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm sure it's, it's easy to, uh, to play these back.
[01:59:46.200 --> 01:59:46.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's how I did it.
[01:59:48.200 --> 01:59:49.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, well, maybe.
[01:59:52.400 --> 01:59:52.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[01:59:52.920 --> 01:59:55.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I think, uh, I think we've covered just about everything.
[01:59:55.520 --> 01:59:59.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: Any other, uh, questions or comments before we move on to, I think, our final call?
[02:00:01.940 --> 02:00:04.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, nothing I can think of.
[02:00:04.220 --> 02:00:04.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:00:06.480 --> 02:00:10.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks for the show, and have a good night, everybody.
[02:00:10.840 --> 02:00:11.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[02:00:11.120 --> 02:00:11.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good hearing from you, Babson.
[02:00:12.320 --> 02:00:16.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, and, and, uh, Alex is holding up some kind of, uh, Bulgarian dessert.
[02:00:16.460 --> 02:00:18.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: Do you want to tell us what that was, since he can't see you?
[02:00:19.440 --> 02:00:21.060]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, yes, Babson.
[02:00:21.380 --> 02:00:34.860]  [ALEXURBELS]: I have a, um, I haven't tried these yet, so we can, I think you need to call back next week, but I did stop by the Bulgarian grocery earlier this morning on my way to Pennsylvania, and, uh, and I had picked up some, uh, Varové.
[02:00:35.060 --> 02:00:36.460]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think it's called Varové.
[02:00:36.740 --> 02:00:37.600]  [ALEXURBELS]: Is that, is that right?
[02:00:42.010 --> 02:00:45.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't sound like anything in that.
[02:00:46.390 --> 02:00:52.130]  [ALEXURBELS]: They're basically like these milk chocolate kind of wafers with, uh, it's a cacao.
[02:00:52.750 --> 02:00:53.210]  [ALEXURBELS]: Creme.
[02:00:53.210 --> 02:00:54.030]  [ALEXURBELS]: Um, cacao?
[02:00:54.310 --> 02:00:57.130]  [ALEXURBELS]: Cacao, I guess, is, uh, uh...
[02:00:57.130 --> 02:00:58.690]  [ALEXURBELS]: Cocoa-based, yes.
[02:00:58.970 --> 02:00:59.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[02:00:59.670 --> 02:00:59.890]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[02:01:00.030 --> 02:01:02.690]  [ALEXURBELS]: And creme would be cream, right?
[02:01:02.810 --> 02:01:06.510]  [ALEXURBELS]: What would, what we would see as K-P-E-M would be creme, right?
[02:01:07.110 --> 02:01:07.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[02:01:09.250 --> 02:01:09.690]  Yeah.
[02:01:09.690 --> 02:01:12.230]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm looking forward to these.
[02:01:12.630 --> 02:01:21.790]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, these, they seem to have quite a selection of different flavors of these cookies, so, um, we will be sure to, to try every single one of them in the weeks ahead.
[02:01:21.790 --> 02:01:23.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: It seems all you ever get is dessert.
[02:01:24.090 --> 02:01:25.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, when are you going to get meat or something?
[02:01:26.670 --> 02:01:26.890]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[02:01:27.070 --> 02:01:33.170]  [ALEXURBELS]: You know, in fact, I, I did pick up some, some meat today, but, um, it turned out to be, uh, I thought it was Polish kielbasa.
[02:01:33.310 --> 02:01:34.950]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, it actually wound up being a Russian kielbasa.
[02:01:35.570 --> 02:01:37.670]  [ALEXURBELS]: So I hope I didn't violate some kind of sanction.
[02:01:37.710 --> 02:01:45.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think you might have to report that to somebody, uh, because that certainly is not in keeping with, um, the values that we wanted to pass on to our kids.
[02:01:46.790 --> 02:01:47.810]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, that is true.
[02:01:48.030 --> 02:01:48.210]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[02:01:48.790 --> 02:01:54.530]  [ALEXURBELS]: Um, I, I will say though, I guess, I guess a lot of Bulgarians still speaks Russian in a sense, right?
[02:01:54.670 --> 02:01:57.010]  [ALEXURBELS]: Do you, do you speak Russian at all, Bobson?
[02:01:59.110 --> 02:02:03.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, yes, I studied it in great school.
[02:02:04.530 --> 02:02:05.270]  [ALEXURBELS]: Oh, right.
[02:02:05.430 --> 02:02:08.190]  [ALEXURBELS]: So yeah, give me a little bit, bit, bit, bit, bit, bit, bit, bit, bit, bit.
[02:02:08.190 --> 02:02:09.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: What a wise ass.
[02:02:10.370 --> 02:02:15.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, I, I, I think, and, and correct me if I'm wrong about, Bobson, but a lot of people in Bulgaria don't want to speak Russian.
[02:02:16.050 --> 02:02:20.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: They just were forced to learn Russian when they were growing up because of the influence, right?
[02:02:22.670 --> 02:02:24.110]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, there is that too.
[02:02:25.170 --> 02:02:25.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: Mm-hmm.
[02:02:26.130 --> 02:02:26.490]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[02:02:26.930 --> 02:02:29.050]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, prestigious, Bobson, my friend.
[02:02:29.830 --> 02:02:31.770]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, Emmanuel, очень странный, man.
[02:02:31.910 --> 02:02:32.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, same to you.
[02:02:33.190 --> 02:02:33.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: Doubled.
[02:02:37.420 --> 02:02:38.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'll look that up later.
[02:02:38.660 --> 02:02:39.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'll look it up later.
[02:02:40.060 --> 02:02:41.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, Bobson, great to hear from you.
[02:02:41.360 --> 02:02:41.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: Take care.
[02:02:42.920 --> 02:02:43.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Have a good evening.
[02:02:44.040 --> 02:02:45.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you for your show.
[02:02:46.020 --> 02:02:48.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think the, uh, the sun is coming up where Bobson is right now.
[02:02:49.060 --> 02:02:52.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, uh, that's, uh, always good to hear from him.
[02:02:52.280 --> 02:02:52.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:02:52.480 --> 02:02:55.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: So we're going to, um, open the phone lines for one more call.
[02:02:55.760 --> 02:02:59.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's eight zero two three two one four two two five eight Oh two three two one hack.
[02:03:00.360 --> 02:03:02.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: And then we'll be signing off for this week.
[02:03:08.030 --> 02:03:16.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: Just assume somebody would say something if I just relaxed for a second, but no, apparently not.
[02:03:16.810 --> 02:03:17.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, no one has anything to say.
[02:03:18.010 --> 02:03:18.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, great.
[02:03:18.750 --> 02:03:20.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, go ahead, please.
[02:03:21.090 --> 02:03:34.110]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, and I'm sorry, I wasn't able to share this earlier, but my favorite Eurovision moment is a, um, well, first of all, the, uh, the movie, the Netflix movie from a couple of years ago that functionally was Eurovision 2020 fire saga.
[02:03:34.470 --> 02:03:35.930]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, that's sort of fantastic.
[02:03:36.330 --> 02:03:49.030]  [GILADRAZEN]: But the other thing is, um, speaking of Israel, there was a CD that was put out by some studio musicians, uh, and it was like the best of Eurovision and they sang everything phonetically.
[02:03:49.250 --> 02:03:55.450]  [GILADRAZEN]: So if you listen to the Israeli songs that won, they're total gibberish and it is the funniest thing ever.
[02:03:56.270 --> 02:03:58.110]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, I love everything about it.
[02:03:59.490 --> 02:04:04.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: But by the way, this year's, um, uh, Israeli entry is great.
[02:04:05.110 --> 02:04:05.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's really is.
[02:04:05.870 --> 02:04:11.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's one of my favorites, uh, that Ukraine, uh, but Moldova, Moldova takes it all.
[02:04:11.630 --> 02:04:12.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, Moldova was the best.
[02:04:13.490 --> 02:04:16.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, yeah, I think Serbia did a good one too.
[02:04:16.930 --> 02:04:18.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: Serbia had a pretty good entry this time.
[02:04:18.490 --> 02:04:21.310]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, did you see the U.S. equivalent?
[02:04:21.610 --> 02:04:22.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: What is the U S?
[02:04:22.690 --> 02:04:39.210]  [GILADRAZEN]: So, uh, it was called the American song contest and it just ended, um, this week and they had people from representing every state and every, um, like, uh, territory.
[02:04:39.630 --> 02:04:44.650]  [GILADRAZEN]: And it was fascinating because some people were complete unknowns and like Michael Bolton was representing Connecticut.
[02:04:46.030 --> 02:04:46.730]  [GILADRAZEN]: Well, wait a minute.
[02:04:46.870 --> 02:04:47.430]  [GILADRAZEN]: He made it to the final.
[02:04:47.990 --> 02:04:48.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: Michael Bolton.
[02:04:48.770 --> 02:04:49.310]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hold on a second.
[02:04:49.530 --> 02:04:50.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: He's not an unknown.
[02:04:51.150 --> 02:04:53.710]  [GILADRAZEN]: No, some people were complete unknowns and some people were not.
[02:04:54.050 --> 02:04:54.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, but why?
[02:04:55.050 --> 02:04:55.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:04:55.630 --> 02:04:57.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: First of all, how come, how come we don't know about this?
[02:04:58.310 --> 02:05:02.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: Second of all, shouldn't it be for people pretty much on an even level?
[02:05:02.650 --> 02:05:07.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: Like, you know, to have Paul McCartney competing, you know, with the kid next door, just learn how to play guitar.
[02:05:08.350 --> 02:05:09.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: Kind of unfair.
[02:05:09.430 --> 02:05:10.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, you know, it should be something.
[02:05:10.790 --> 02:05:21.350]  [GILADRAZEN]: Honestly, I don't know how they found the initial representatives, but like, you know, if you're thinking of a singer from Alaska, so Jewel represented Alaska, but got eliminated in the early rounds.
[02:05:22.050 --> 02:05:24.070]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, I will admit I wasn't watching it actively.
[02:05:24.110 --> 02:05:27.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: It sounds like mostly superstars then, but I think it'd be more interesting.
[02:05:27.730 --> 02:05:27.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: Really?
[02:05:28.070 --> 02:05:28.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:05:28.730 --> 02:05:28.930]  Really?
[02:05:29.310 --> 02:05:29.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[02:05:29.990 --> 02:05:35.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think it'd be more interesting if, if, if there were, you know, um, new people that are new on the scene.
[02:05:35.930 --> 02:05:36.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: It should be new music.
[02:05:37.170 --> 02:05:46.630]  [GILADRAZEN]: I do not disagree with you, but, uh, but also say that the, um, the, the Netflix movie Eurovision, the story of fire saga, which came out a couple of years ago was really quite good.
[02:05:46.750 --> 02:05:47.470]  [GILADRAZEN]: The music was good.
[02:05:47.610 --> 02:05:51.850]  [GILADRAZEN]: They got actual Eurovision performers from previous years to make cameos in it.
[02:05:52.430 --> 02:05:55.050]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, I enjoyed it very much.
[02:05:55.170 --> 02:05:56.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: Do they explain the voting, how it works?
[02:05:57.550 --> 02:05:58.310]  [GILADRAZEN]: A little bit.
[02:05:58.470 --> 02:05:58.730]  [GILADRAZEN]: All right.
[02:05:58.850 --> 02:05:59.170]  [GILADRAZEN]: Sort of.
[02:05:59.930 --> 02:06:00.430]  [GILADRAZEN]: I'll try.
[02:06:00.790 --> 02:06:01.130]  [GILADRAZEN]: Part of that.
[02:06:01.310 --> 02:06:02.830]  [GILADRAZEN]: Cause there's like Will Ferrell running.
[02:06:03.030 --> 02:06:04.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, but I gotta, I gotta learn these things.
[02:06:04.610 --> 02:06:08.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: Just like I have to learn how to play cricket, you know, people explain it to me and then I forget it.
[02:06:08.630 --> 02:06:10.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I just, I would like for it to stick.
[02:06:12.830 --> 02:06:13.510]  [GILADRAZEN]: Best of luck.
[02:06:13.770 --> 02:06:14.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[02:06:14.090 --> 02:06:16.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: Let's, uh, take this last phone call and good evening.
[02:06:16.710 --> 02:06:17.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're on off-look overtime.
[02:06:17.770 --> 02:06:17.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead.
[02:06:19.890 --> 02:06:20.230]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Greetings.
[02:06:20.610 --> 02:06:22.090]  [KIRBY_CAND]: It's, uh, Kirby from Etobicoke.
[02:06:22.290 --> 02:06:22.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hey, how you doing?
[02:06:24.530 --> 02:06:25.230]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Not too bad.
[02:06:25.650 --> 02:06:34.250]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Um, the reason I called today was I wanted to ask you guys, um, planning to come to the conference and there's several options for the, um, accommodations.
[02:06:34.450 --> 02:06:43.950]  [KIRBY_CAND]: And I was wondering if anybody could shed any light on the, um, hotel options or the on-campus options or... Well, do you have specific questions about, about... Nothing at all.
[02:06:44.130 --> 02:06:48.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, specific questions about any of those options and we can, we can certainly answer them or try to.
[02:06:49.030 --> 02:06:57.170]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Well, just, um, uh, you know, has anybody stayed at the facilities, um, on, on campus, uh, a good idea?
[02:06:57.390 --> 02:06:58.510]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Is it an interesting experience?
[02:06:58.990 --> 02:07:02.710]  [KIRBY_CAND]: You know, just, uh, well, okay, obviously this is the first time for everything, right?
[02:07:02.810 --> 02:07:03.210]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Kind of thing.
[02:07:03.330 --> 02:07:06.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'll do my best and I'll hand it over to Gila, who's been, uh, managing most of this.
[02:07:06.910 --> 02:07:08.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, we're all new to this.
[02:07:08.610 --> 02:07:09.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's a new location for us.
[02:07:10.090 --> 02:07:21.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: We, we do know of, uh, a double hotel that's down the road a ways about a, a mile or maybe two miles from the site, uh, which is offering a discounted price.
[02:07:21.270 --> 02:07:25.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, and it's near a lot of restaurants and there's a dive bar downstairs.
[02:07:25.370 --> 02:07:28.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: So it's, it's kind of a cool place to, um, uh, to be.
[02:07:28.130 --> 02:07:30.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: In fact, it's right on the Long Island Expressway.
[02:07:30.170 --> 02:07:32.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: You can look out your window and see the expressway going by.
[02:07:32.310 --> 02:07:36.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: So if you want the, you know, an interesting Queens experience, that is one way to do that.
[02:07:37.070 --> 02:07:43.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's, you know, it, and it's basically a place where you can get away from the site for a while if you want to do that.
[02:07:43.410 --> 02:07:47.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now, if you want to be on site, then there's the on-campus housing situation.
[02:07:47.930 --> 02:07:53.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, and that is obviously very, very convenient because you're right there, you'll wake up on campus.
[02:07:54.010 --> 02:08:00.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, but the, um, uh, the other part of that is that you're part of St. John's community at that point.
[02:08:00.890 --> 02:08:02.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: You have to follow the St. John's rules.
[02:08:02.350 --> 02:08:05.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: They have, they have what we would consider kind of, uh, strange rules.
[02:08:05.610 --> 02:08:12.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: For instance, no alcohol allowed on, on campus or in the dormitories and dormitories are same sex.
[02:08:12.690 --> 02:08:19.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, you know, you, you, you can't have say a husband and wife or a family or girlfriend and boyfriend.
[02:08:19.890 --> 02:08:21.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: You can't have that in the dormitory.
[02:08:21.850 --> 02:08:25.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: So if that's something that is a deal breaker, that's what the hotel is for.
[02:08:25.290 --> 02:08:32.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: But if you want something that is really convenient and right on campus, and, um, uh, I, I think that, uh, that's a good option.
[02:08:33.090 --> 02:08:33.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now, Gila, go ahead.
[02:08:34.110 --> 02:08:34.470]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yes.
[02:08:34.590 --> 02:08:37.430]  [GILADRAZEN]: So, um, I absolutely agree with everything Emmanuel is saying.
[02:08:37.530 --> 02:08:39.350]  [GILADRAZEN]: Let me throw in a couple more points for you.
[02:08:39.590 --> 02:08:47.010]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, one thing we really want to make sure that people understand, it's not just that you're going to be subject to St. John's policies, but that is very true.
[02:08:47.270 --> 02:08:49.710]  [GILADRAZEN]: Don't forget, this is a college dorm.
[02:08:50.210 --> 02:08:52.510]  [GILADRAZEN]: You are going to be sleeping in a single bed.
[02:08:53.030 --> 02:08:57.690]  [GILADRAZEN]: If you're okay with sleeping in a twin bed on campus, maybe a good option for you.
[02:08:57.850 --> 02:09:03.630]  [GILADRAZEN]: There's also a possibility that if you sign up for a room, let me try this again.
[02:09:04.110 --> 02:09:05.490]  [GILADRAZEN]: You're going to sign up for a room.
[02:09:05.730 --> 02:09:06.930]  [GILADRAZEN]: Rooms are part of suites.
[02:09:07.170 --> 02:09:08.790]  [GILADRAZEN]: There is a very distinct possibility.
[02:09:08.810 --> 02:09:11.350]  [GILADRAZEN]: You'll be sharing a bathroom with a stranger.
[02:09:11.630 --> 02:09:14.610]  [GILADRAZEN]: If you stay on campus, you just need to be prepared for that.
[02:09:14.810 --> 02:09:20.230]  [GILADRAZEN]: Now, if you stay on campus or you stay in a hotel, breakfast is included no matter where you stay.
[02:09:20.490 --> 02:09:23.950]  [GILADRAZEN]: And no matter where you stay, you don't need to pack sheets and towels.
[02:09:24.170 --> 02:09:25.650]  [GILADRAZEN]: Those things are included as well.
[02:09:25.810 --> 02:09:30.470]  [GILADRAZEN]: So if that's a factor in your considerations, don't worry about that.
[02:09:31.030 --> 02:09:35.230]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, free parking on campus, parking costs at the hotel.
[02:09:35.490 --> 02:09:45.910]  [GILADRAZEN]: But also, please don't forget, St. John's is pretty easy to get to no matter where you are in four of the five boroughs.
[02:09:46.010 --> 02:09:47.870]  [GILADRAZEN]: I can't vouch if you want to stay on Staten Island.
[02:09:48.050 --> 02:09:49.310]  [GILADRAZEN]: That's a little more complicated.
[02:09:49.650 --> 02:09:54.510]  [GILADRAZEN]: But if you want to stay in Midtown Manhattan, you can do that.
[02:09:54.630 --> 02:10:03.510]  [GILADRAZEN]: The hotels we have, uh, the hotels that St. John's has connections with that we're using are, uh, their two chain hotels.
[02:10:03.670 --> 02:10:06.630]  [GILADRAZEN]: It's a garden in and a courtyard.
[02:10:06.830 --> 02:10:07.930]  [GILADRAZEN]: They're both Marriott properties.
[02:10:08.190 --> 02:10:09.070]  [GILADRAZEN]: They're very nice.
[02:10:09.190 --> 02:10:12.110]  [GILADRAZEN]: If you've stayed in one somewhere, you have an idea of what to expect.
[02:10:12.290 --> 02:10:13.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: And they're right next door to each other.
[02:10:13.930 --> 02:10:15.030]  [GILADRAZEN]: They're right next door to each other.
[02:10:15.190 --> 02:10:16.510]  [GILADRAZEN]: Here's the thing to remember.
[02:10:16.690 --> 02:10:18.770]  [GILADRAZEN]: They're not enormous hotels.
[02:10:18.770 --> 02:10:22.410]  [GILADRAZEN]: We are not going into a space the size of the Hotel Pennsylvania.
[02:10:22.870 --> 02:10:28.250]  [GILADRAZEN]: If you want to stay in one of the hotels, please get on that sooner rather than later.
[02:10:28.410 --> 02:10:29.670]  [GILADRAZEN]: They're not huge.
[02:10:29.830 --> 02:10:30.970]  [GILADRAZEN]: They may sell out.
[02:10:31.170 --> 02:10:31.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, they will.
[02:10:31.570 --> 02:10:32.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: They will sell out at some point.
[02:10:33.290 --> 02:10:35.130]  [GILADRAZEN]: Uh, but again, our block closes July 1.
[02:10:35.810 --> 02:10:36.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes.
[02:10:36.530 --> 02:10:37.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good to know.
[02:10:37.190 --> 02:10:37.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good to know.
[02:10:37.810 --> 02:10:41.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, and you know, there's no need for a bigger hotel because we're not having the conference in the hotel.
[02:10:42.070 --> 02:10:45.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: The hotel is simply for people to, uh, to, to, to sleep in.
[02:10:46.030 --> 02:10:47.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, but again, it's convenient.
[02:10:47.650 --> 02:10:53.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's a bus that goes right to campus or it's a very quick Uber ride or, uh, many other ways to get there.
[02:10:54.070 --> 02:10:55.190]  [GILADRAZEN]: Lots of places to stay.
[02:10:55.350 --> 02:11:00.050]  [GILADRAZEN]: One very important thing we want to remind you about in terms of staying on campus.
[02:11:00.130 --> 02:11:03.430]  [GILADRAZEN]: And if there are questions that you have that we have not answered, please give us a holler.
[02:11:04.150 --> 02:11:13.930]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, please don't forget that if you are a person who does not, I, if you identify as non-binary, you should not stay on campus.
[02:11:14.130 --> 02:11:15.590]  [GILADRAZEN]: This is a policy thing.
[02:11:15.710 --> 02:11:16.950]  [GILADRAZEN]: It's not our policy.
[02:11:17.110 --> 02:11:18.750]  [GILADRAZEN]: You need to identify as male or female.
[02:11:18.950 --> 02:11:23.070]  [GILADRAZEN]: And if you don't staying on campus is not a good choice for you.
[02:11:23.250 --> 02:11:28.350]  [GILADRAZEN]: We don't love it at all, but this is a policy of our host institution.
[02:11:28.530 --> 02:11:31.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: But we're talking about, I'm sorry, we're talking about this filling out the forum, right?
[02:11:31.650 --> 02:11:34.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not like someone's going to come to your room and check and say, what are you?
[02:11:34.590 --> 02:11:35.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: Right.
[02:11:35.390 --> 02:11:37.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: But you do have to choose one or the other.
[02:11:38.110 --> 02:11:39.710]  [GILADRAZEN]: That's, that's how they choose one or the other.
[02:11:39.970 --> 02:11:42.170]  [GILADRAZEN]: And you have to provide a photo and photo ID.
[02:11:42.410 --> 02:11:42.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: Right.
[02:11:43.290 --> 02:11:45.550]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, they, and that's how they assign your housing.
[02:11:45.750 --> 02:11:54.110]  [GILADRAZEN]: The other thing we need to remember is, um, that if you don't stay in the dorms, you can't go to the dorms.
[02:11:54.850 --> 02:12:00.470]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, you're going to St. John's is issuing ID to our attendees who are staying in the dorms.
[02:12:01.010 --> 02:12:05.050]  [GILADRAZEN]: And we are, um, not in charge of that.
[02:12:05.170 --> 02:12:09.530]  [GILADRAZEN]: St. John's is going to have personnel who are checking IDs on the way to the dorms.
[02:12:09.910 --> 02:12:14.650]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, if you don't have a dorm reservation, you can't go to the dorms.
[02:12:14.770 --> 02:12:16.050]  [GILADRAZEN]: We cannot stress this hard enough.
[02:12:16.190 --> 02:12:16.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[02:12:16.510 --> 02:12:19.970]  [GILADRAZEN]: So if you're staying in the dorms and planning on having a party, please don't.
[02:12:19.970 --> 02:12:20.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[02:12:20.610 --> 02:12:21.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: And they're, they're asking for your ID.
[02:12:21.930 --> 02:12:23.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: We are not asking for your ID.
[02:12:23.250 --> 02:12:24.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: We do not get your ID.
[02:12:24.590 --> 02:12:27.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, the dormitory St. John's, that's their policy.
[02:12:27.410 --> 02:12:28.710]  [GILADRAZEN]: This is an on-campus ID.
[02:12:29.010 --> 02:12:33.750]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, and this is not a HOPE staff thing.
[02:12:33.910 --> 02:12:37.230]  [GILADRAZEN]: HOPE staff is not, we're not doing housing assignments.
[02:12:37.230 --> 02:12:39.430]  [GILADRAZEN]: We can't change your rooming if you don't like it.
[02:12:39.590 --> 02:12:51.310]  [GILADRAZEN]: That's, we have nothing to do with this, but you can, uh, request that, uh, you can request a roommate, but the makeup of your suite is not able, we cannot guarantee the rooming, the makeup of your suite.
[02:12:51.470 --> 02:12:51.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: So hold on.
[02:12:52.130 --> 02:12:55.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, as far as roommates now, uh, there's two options, right?
[02:12:55.050 --> 02:12:56.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's, there's a single and a double.
[02:12:56.530 --> 02:12:59.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now, if there's a double, uh, there's two people per room.
[02:12:59.290 --> 02:13:02.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: And if it's somebody, you know, then that's the person that you'll be with.
[02:13:03.070 --> 02:13:09.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: Otherwise it could be a completely random stranger, or you can, you can choose to have a single, which is not that much more expensive than a double.
[02:13:09.990 --> 02:13:10.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: And then you have the room to yourself.
[02:13:11.070 --> 02:13:11.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: Does that have that right?
[02:13:12.310 --> 02:13:13.270]  [GILADRAZEN]: That's absolutely correct.
[02:13:13.930 --> 02:13:16.130]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, suites rooms are assigned to suites.
[02:13:16.450 --> 02:13:20.050]  [GILADRAZEN]: Even if you have a single room, you will be sharing a bathroom with another person.
[02:13:20.210 --> 02:13:21.390]  [GILADRAZEN]: Just bear that in mind as well.
[02:13:21.950 --> 02:13:28.330]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, but yes, if you and a friend decide you want to share a room and you sign up together, we can make that happen.
[02:13:28.370 --> 02:13:30.870]  [GILADRAZEN]: As long as it's a roommate of your same gender.
[02:13:31.050 --> 02:13:34.550]  [GILADRAZEN]: Like I, Rob and I cannot share a room at the conference.
[02:13:34.830 --> 02:13:37.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's silly, it's silly, but it's, um, silly.
[02:13:37.910 --> 02:13:38.450]  [GILADRAZEN]: It's not ours.
[02:13:38.590 --> 02:13:45.390]  [GILADRAZEN]: And also remember that this is a college campus and we're adults and they are not their core constituency.
[02:13:46.010 --> 02:13:46.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[02:13:46.470 --> 02:13:48.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, it's just, uh, consider it a challenge.
[02:13:48.570 --> 02:13:48.790]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Well, and there's only one option.
[02:13:49.050 --> 02:13:49.930]  [KIRBY_CAND]: There's other options.
[02:13:50.190 --> 02:13:51.710]  [KIRBY_CAND]: So it's not like that's the only thing.
[02:13:52.030 --> 02:13:52.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: Right.
[02:13:52.530 --> 02:13:52.890]  [GILADRAZEN]: Exactly.
[02:13:53.110 --> 02:13:56.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's why we have multiple options so that people can, can make a choice.
[02:13:56.310 --> 02:14:02.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: But just understand that, you know, their campus, their rules, as far as that goes, as far as a conference goes, that's what we run.
[02:14:03.510 --> 02:14:13.390]  [GILADRAZEN]: Also, if you want to look for an Airbnb somewhere in Queens, you can literally, the entire city is at your feet here and you can get there easily from anywhere.
[02:14:14.410 --> 02:14:21.810]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, you know, when I went to college at a tiny university in Los Angeles and they said, the city is your campus.
[02:14:22.230 --> 02:14:23.570]  [GILADRAZEN]: And it's very true.
[02:14:23.570 --> 02:14:35.030]  [GILADRAZEN]: You can, you know, it's a heck of a slogan, but you can come to the conference and then you can stay wherever you like, get back to back and forth from campus very easily.
[02:14:35.030 --> 02:14:39.110]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, were there other questions that you had that we have not addressed?
[02:14:40.910 --> 02:14:46.870]  [KIRBY_CAND]: I mean, no, but that's, um, that's fabulous in terms of the information you provided.
[02:14:47.530 --> 02:15:00.630]  [KIRBY_CAND]: I'm sure lots of people probably, um, were wondering the same thing as I, and, uh, I'll tell you, uh, I will be staying at the hotel to your, um, thorough explanation, which is cool.
[02:15:00.630 --> 02:15:10.690]  [KIRBY_CAND]: And I'll get on that shortly for my, uh, particular, you know, I may want to, um, commiserate or, um, visitors or something without people.
[02:15:11.390 --> 02:15:18.890]  [KIRBY_CAND]: But at the same time, uh, I think, um, my big problem is I'm trying to figure out how to get to the conference.
[02:15:19.150 --> 02:15:28.870]  [KIRBY_CAND]: And so I was wondering if each of the hosts could speak on, um, what they think is a possibly the best or a cool way, um, to get down there from, uh, Canada.
[02:15:29.230 --> 02:15:31.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, now you're in Ontario, right?
[02:15:32.230 --> 02:15:32.670]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Yeah.
[02:15:33.090 --> 02:15:33.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:15:33.410 --> 02:15:34.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: As far as I understand...
[02:15:34.890 --> 02:15:38.770]  [KIRBY_CAND]: I could cross the, I could cross the border in, um, in an hour from where I am.
[02:15:39.010 --> 02:15:42.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now, uh, is, is, is flying your preference or land travel?
[02:15:43.890 --> 02:15:47.570]  [KIRBY_CAND]: I mean, at this point, it doesn't, um, I'm open to anything.
[02:15:47.790 --> 02:15:53.170]  [KIRBY_CAND]: It's not a cool, if there's a cool line that runs somewhere, there's a good drive or, you know?
[02:15:53.470 --> 02:16:04.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, driving is easy, you know, because you simply, you know, come down, uh, the interstate and, um, uh, basically you can get to St. John's very easily that way, just crossing over one of the bridges.
[02:16:04.770 --> 02:16:13.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, uh, uh, flying is simple because, um, LaGuardia airport, I believe has, uh, has flights from Canada and certainly JFK does.
[02:16:13.350 --> 02:16:16.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: And they're both very close to campus and very easy to get to.
[02:16:16.490 --> 02:16:23.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, then of course there's, uh, Amtrak, but there's only one train a day, uh, that comes down, uh, through New York state from, from Toronto.
[02:16:23.270 --> 02:16:24.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's called the Maple Leaf.
[02:16:24.710 --> 02:16:28.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, and, um, that takes, that takes you to Penn station.
[02:16:28.230 --> 02:16:41.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: Would have been good when the hotel Pennsylvania was there, uh, because it was right across the street, but, but it's also easy to get to, uh, you just get, uh, you know, get off and, um, uh, get onto, actually you stay in Penn station, you get on the LIRR and take that out to,
[02:16:41.690 --> 02:16:44.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: uh, I believe Jamaica, which almost every train stops at.
[02:16:44.970 --> 02:16:47.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: And from there you hop on a bus and you're on campus.
[02:16:47.270 --> 02:16:49.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think there's full directions.
[02:16:49.170 --> 02:16:50.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: Am I right, Gila, on, on our website?
[02:16:50.790 --> 02:17:00.390]  [GILADRAZEN]: There are, there are, uh, if you go to hope.net slash travel.html, you will find all kinds of information on how to get to St. John's from New York.
[02:17:00.570 --> 02:17:10.210]  [GILADRAZEN]: It is up to you how to get to New York, but then we give you information for subway, rail, bus, car, um, everything you may need to know about getting to campus.
[02:17:10.690 --> 02:17:12.030]  [GILADRAZEN]: We've got it there for you.
[02:17:12.750 --> 02:17:17.890]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, I think if you want to drive, that's a great option.
[02:17:18.110 --> 02:17:26.150]  [GILADRAZEN]: I think the train, understanding that there are convenience issues, um, flying into, all of these things are possible.
[02:17:26.290 --> 02:17:31.790]  [GILADRAZEN]: Also, don't forget if you land, if I have a Penn station, you can also take the subway from Penn station.
[02:17:31.910 --> 02:17:32.550]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yeah, the subway.
[02:17:32.850 --> 02:17:37.890]  [GILADRAZEN]: You can, you can take the E train from Penn station, which will take you straight out to Queens.
[02:17:37.930 --> 02:17:40.270]  [GILADRAZEN]: It is also less expensive than the LIRR.
[02:17:40.590 --> 02:17:41.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not quick though.
[02:17:41.730 --> 02:17:43.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: That, uh, the subway will take a while.
[02:17:44.070 --> 02:17:46.130]  [GILADRAZEN]: The subway does take a while.
[02:17:46.450 --> 02:17:50.090]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, but there are lots of options.
[02:17:50.330 --> 02:17:58.710]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, if it were my call, I would say, um, when you get to the city, take an express bus out to Queens.
[02:17:59.050 --> 02:18:05.510]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, I am a huge fan of the express buses, which run directly from Manhattan to Queens.
[02:18:05.850 --> 02:18:10.630]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, or really they run to all the boroughs, but the ones we're talking about here run to Queens.
[02:18:11.170 --> 02:18:14.990]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, I did get Rob on his first express bus a couple of weeks ago.
[02:18:15.130 --> 02:18:17.230]  [GILADRAZEN]: I think it was a life-changing experience for him.
[02:18:17.930 --> 02:18:20.910]  [GILADRAZEN]: It's basically a coach bus that the MTA runs.
[02:18:21.110 --> 02:18:26.290]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, so there's space, there's USB chargers at your seat.
[02:18:26.690 --> 02:18:28.850]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, there's a little fan for your face.
[02:18:29.090 --> 02:18:31.010]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, I would take an express bus.
[02:18:31.150 --> 02:18:32.290]  [GILADRAZEN]: I think they're kind of fantastic.
[02:18:33.150 --> 02:18:37.190]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, but, and then you get to see some of the city.
[02:18:37.330 --> 02:18:38.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: Is that outlined on the website as well?
[02:18:38.870 --> 02:18:39.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: The express buses?
[02:18:40.230 --> 02:18:41.610]  [GILADRAZEN]: Via MTA express bus.
[02:18:41.830 --> 02:18:47.630]  [GILADRAZEN]: I, um, when I wrote up the travel instructions, I kind of went nuts on all the different ways you could get to campus.
[02:18:47.690 --> 02:18:48.230]  [GILADRAZEN]: That's what we want.
[02:18:48.230 --> 02:18:49.470]  [GILADRAZEN]: Everything you could possibly need to know is here.
[02:18:49.470 --> 02:18:54.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's, that's all we ask is that people go nuts when they are describing the various aspects of hope.
[02:18:54.630 --> 02:18:56.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: So I hope that that answers your question.
[02:18:57.430 --> 02:18:58.530]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Oh, certainly, certainly.
[02:18:58.890 --> 02:19:00.270]  [KIRBY_CAND]: No, definitely shed some light on stuff.
[02:19:00.390 --> 02:19:07.630]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Cause you know, it's, especially these days, it's a little daunting planning a trip and, uh, figuring out exactly what to do.
[02:19:07.850 --> 02:19:08.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: Mm-hmm.
[02:19:08.330 --> 02:19:08.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[02:19:08.570 --> 02:19:09.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, we've heard that from a lot of people.
[02:19:09.750 --> 02:19:20.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: In fact, that's, that's one of the reasons why we introduced the virtual option for people that, you know, it's too daunting and they don't want to take a trip this, this early on, or they just, you know, they're exhausted from the last few years.
[02:19:20.870 --> 02:19:21.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: We get that.
[02:19:21.750 --> 02:19:25.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, and we just want to make sure everybody is included one way or another.
[02:19:25.230 --> 02:19:32.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, uh, those of you who decide to get a virtual ticket, you can participate in all the ways that, uh, we had in 2020.
[02:19:32.890 --> 02:19:39.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, and, um, uh, those of you who want to give a talk virtually, we're going to have a track for virtual, uh, talks as well.
[02:19:39.270 --> 02:19:40.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: So we're going to try and do a lot.
[02:19:42.870 --> 02:19:43.690]  [KYLEDROSDK]: If that's great.
[02:19:44.110 --> 02:19:50.850]  [KYLEDROSDK]: If I was Kirby, what I would do, I would go from Toronto to London, Ontario.
[02:19:51.630 --> 02:19:54.330]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And then I think you can get into like Detroit.
[02:19:54.670 --> 02:19:55.630]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I don't know how that works.
[02:19:55.930 --> 02:19:57.550]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm curious about that area.
[02:19:57.930 --> 02:20:00.050]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Windsor, Windsor, Windsor, Ontario.
[02:20:00.430 --> 02:20:01.730]  [KYLEDROSDK]: That connects to Detroit.
[02:20:01.970 --> 02:20:03.390]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'd still check out London though.
[02:20:03.490 --> 02:20:04.950]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Cause I, I'm curious about that city.
[02:20:05.090 --> 02:20:09.590]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I haven't been to London in Canada and then, um, okay.
[02:20:09.770 --> 02:20:09.910]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Okay.
[02:20:10.110 --> 02:20:10.570]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So there you go.
[02:20:10.630 --> 02:20:14.410]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You stop in, you have dinner or, uh, are you planning out his whole trip?
[02:20:14.610 --> 02:20:17.890]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Well, he asked what every single person on the show would do.
[02:20:18.150 --> 02:20:19.510]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Were they him planning this trip?
[02:20:20.030 --> 02:20:21.290]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm just answering the question.
[02:20:21.610 --> 02:20:22.790]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm the innocent one here.
[02:20:22.950 --> 02:20:23.010]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Okay.
[02:20:23.070 --> 02:20:24.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: So now he's got to have dinner with his family.
[02:20:24.990 --> 02:20:25.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[02:20:25.370 --> 02:20:27.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: And then, so obviously he can't leave till the next morning.
[02:20:27.490 --> 02:20:28.650]  [KYLEDROSDK]: That may or may not happen.
[02:20:28.710 --> 02:20:29.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: They're going to want him to stay over.
[02:20:30.210 --> 02:20:31.550]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Then you go to Chicago.
[02:20:32.090 --> 02:20:32.410]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Chicago?
[02:20:32.830 --> 02:20:34.030]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You spend some time in Chicago.
[02:20:34.230 --> 02:20:34.310]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[02:20:34.350 --> 02:20:35.430]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You backtrack a little bit.
[02:20:35.550 --> 02:20:36.410]  [KYLEDROSDK]: When is he leaving June?
[02:20:37.310 --> 02:20:43.590]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And then, and then you get on, uh, you get on the Amtrak train cause Amtrak... The Lakeshore Limited?
[02:20:43.830 --> 02:20:44.130]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[02:20:44.290 --> 02:20:44.410]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[02:20:44.650 --> 02:20:44.830]  [KYLEDROSDK]: There you go.
[02:20:44.850 --> 02:20:45.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, the Lakeshore Limited.
[02:20:45.510 --> 02:20:48.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's a, that's a good train, but there's still, there's still only one of those a day.
[02:20:49.130 --> 02:20:49.130]  Yep.
[02:20:49.150 --> 02:20:52.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: I said the Maple Leaf because that comes, the Maple Leaf comes from Toronto.
[02:20:52.290 --> 02:20:57.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: Although, you know what, it's not, it doesn't go to Toronto now because of COVID, but it will start in June 27th.
[02:20:57.290 --> 02:20:58.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: Just a little point of information.
[02:20:58.690 --> 02:21:03.570]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Uh, the Lakeshore Limited is the Amtrak train that goes to the East Coast.
[02:21:04.270 --> 02:21:07.430]  [KYLEDROSDK]: There's also, um... It's a sleeper though.
[02:21:07.690 --> 02:21:10.770]  [KYLEDROSDK]: What's the Southern, the Indiana Rail?
[02:21:11.650 --> 02:21:12.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[02:21:12.070 --> 02:21:13.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's not going to work for him.
[02:21:13.110 --> 02:21:14.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: That does, that goes to Chicago.
[02:21:14.390 --> 02:21:14.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, that's a dead end.
[02:21:14.690 --> 02:21:15.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: That goes from Chicago from Indiana.
[02:21:15.950 --> 02:21:16.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that doesn't go to New York.
[02:21:17.050 --> 02:21:18.090]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I would still check it out.
[02:21:18.170 --> 02:21:18.330]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Uh-huh.
[02:21:18.670 --> 02:21:23.750]  [KYLEDROSDK]: But yeah, Lake Shore Limited, that'll get you, uh, to the, to one end of the country.
[02:21:23.970 --> 02:21:24.090]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[02:21:24.230 --> 02:21:27.790]  [KYLEDROSDK]: From, from the mid of the country, that will, that will send you to the East.
[02:21:27.910 --> 02:21:34.970]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And then once you're in the East, you, uh, you would follow what Gila had suggested for all the myriad ways you can get to Queens.
[02:21:35.170 --> 02:21:36.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: Have you been to New York before, Kirby?
[02:21:37.830 --> 02:21:38.490]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Yes, I have.
[02:21:38.630 --> 02:21:38.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:21:39.010 --> 02:21:40.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: So you'll, you're somewhat familiar.
[02:21:40.430 --> 02:21:45.610]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Also, I could be in, um, I could be in Niagara Falls, New York in like an hour and a half from where I'm sitting.
[02:21:45.850 --> 02:21:45.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[02:21:46.130 --> 02:21:46.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, there you go.
[02:21:46.990 --> 02:21:47.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's another way.
[02:21:47.990 --> 02:21:49.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, the maple leaf stops there.
[02:21:49.190 --> 02:21:49.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know that.
[02:21:49.650 --> 02:21:50.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: You need a barrel.
[02:21:50.830 --> 02:21:57.610]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Well, some people have told me to go through, go do that because there's all kinds of, um, commotion at our airports right now.
[02:21:57.750 --> 02:21:58.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[02:21:58.450 --> 02:22:05.470]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Uh, the regulations that the, um, government still has in place are taking two or three minutes extra per customer.
[02:22:05.710 --> 02:22:07.950]  [KIRBY_CAND]: And so it's like three, four hour waits.
[02:22:08.150 --> 02:22:08.390]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Wow.
[02:22:08.390 --> 02:22:11.690]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Um, to get processed in and out of, um, to Toronto airport.
[02:22:12.470 --> 02:22:12.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: Interesting.
[02:22:13.130 --> 02:22:13.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:22:13.850 --> 02:22:15.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: So yeah, maybe, uh, probing around.
[02:22:16.330 --> 02:22:23.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: Are you thinking of, uh, taking a, uh, a plane from upstate New York or getting on a train in that, in that area?
[02:22:23.870 --> 02:22:27.790]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Some people, uh, they go to Buffalo and they take planes from there.
[02:22:27.950 --> 02:22:28.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:22:28.530 --> 02:22:29.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, that would definitely work.
[02:22:29.690 --> 02:22:30.830]  [KIRBY_CAND]: That's quite easy to access.
[02:22:32.670 --> 02:22:35.850]  [KIRBY_CAND]: And, uh, yeah, maybe a train even just cross the border and get it on a train.
[02:22:36.250 --> 02:22:40.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, only one train a day, but, uh, as far as I know, yes, Keela, go ahead.
[02:22:40.550 --> 02:22:40.710]  [GILADRAZEN]: Okay.
[02:22:40.710 --> 02:22:41.670]  [GILADRAZEN]: I'm coming up with a new idea.
[02:22:41.790 --> 02:22:41.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[02:22:42.610 --> 02:22:42.970]  [GILADRAZEN]: Okay.
[02:22:43.750 --> 02:22:45.250]  [GILADRAZEN]: Get yourself across the border.
[02:22:47.530 --> 02:22:49.390]  [GILADRAZEN]: Fly to JFK.
[02:22:49.490 --> 02:22:49.830]  [GILADRAZEN]: I got it.
[02:22:49.990 --> 02:22:50.110]  [GILADRAZEN]: Okay.
[02:22:50.490 --> 02:22:51.330]  [GILADRAZEN]: Get yourself across the border.
[02:22:51.650 --> 02:22:53.950]  [GILADRAZEN]: Fly from, I don't know, is it Buffalo?
[02:22:55.190 --> 02:22:57.670]  [GILADRAZEN]: Fly from that area to JFK.
[02:22:59.050 --> 02:23:04.830]  [GILADRAZEN]: Take the air train to the E train to the bus to campus.
[02:23:04.830 --> 02:23:04.950]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yes.
[02:23:05.570 --> 02:23:06.390]  [GILADRAZEN]: That's how I would do it.
[02:23:06.450 --> 02:23:07.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: You don't need the E train.
[02:23:07.610 --> 02:23:10.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: You just, you can get a bus from Jamaica after the air train.
[02:23:11.210 --> 02:23:11.990]  [GILADRAZEN]: That's also true.
[02:23:12.390 --> 02:23:12.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[02:23:13.030 --> 02:23:18.410]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, take the air train to Jamaica and then get the bus and then you're there.
[02:23:18.790 --> 02:23:21.650]  [GILADRAZEN]: All possibilities abound.
[02:23:21.850 --> 02:23:24.550]  [GILADRAZEN]: So yes, hope.net slash travel.html.
[02:23:24.850 --> 02:23:25.270]  [GILADRAZEN]: This is all there.
[02:23:25.390 --> 02:23:30.070]  [GILADRAZEN]: We can't get you to New York, but once we get you to New York, we tell you what to do.
[02:23:30.070 --> 02:23:31.890]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I feel like there's a competition.
[02:23:32.110 --> 02:23:38.410]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I feel like we've just started, uh, uh, the, the hope turn by turn competition.
[02:23:39.090 --> 02:23:41.130]  [KYLEDROSDK]: How, how do you get to hope?
[02:23:41.430 --> 02:23:43.570]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You don't tell us where you exactly where you start.
[02:23:43.670 --> 02:23:44.910]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We don't really care that much.
[02:23:44.950 --> 02:23:48.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: HOPE is the only conference where getting to the conference is part of the conference.
[02:23:49.070 --> 02:23:49.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[02:23:50.130 --> 02:23:51.890]  [GILADRAZEN]: Wait, do you guys remember a couple years ago?
[02:23:52.370 --> 02:23:58.370]  [GILADRAZEN]: I suggested that as a premium, we offer ourselves as like a voice for your ways and no one took us up on it.
[02:23:59.550 --> 02:23:59.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[02:24:00.230 --> 02:24:00.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[02:24:01.130 --> 02:24:04.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's not that many recordings to record on your ways either.
[02:24:05.050 --> 02:24:06.210]  [GILADRAZEN]: This is what I'm saying though.
[02:24:06.410 --> 02:24:10.130]  [GILADRAZEN]: Like I think getting directions from the off the hook panel.
[02:24:11.230 --> 02:24:13.890]  [GILADRAZEN]: Oh my God, Kirby, you're doing amazing things here and we appreciate it.
[02:24:17.570 --> 02:24:19.610]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Well, I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to figure this out.
[02:24:19.690 --> 02:24:25.330]  [KIRBY_CAND]: I'm going to have to plan soon because, um, I also have the possibility of a plane into, um, the other airport.
[02:24:25.450 --> 02:24:26.050]  [KIRBY_CAND]: What's the other airport?
[02:24:26.250 --> 02:24:26.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: LaGuardia.
[02:24:28.770 --> 02:24:29.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: Right?
[02:24:29.310 --> 02:24:29.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: LaGuardia?
[02:24:29.850 --> 02:24:30.410]  [KIRBY_CAND]: What's the other airport?
[02:24:30.550 --> 02:24:31.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, Newark.
[02:24:32.270 --> 02:24:32.630]  Newark?
[02:24:32.630 --> 02:24:33.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's not as close.
[02:24:33.610 --> 02:24:34.070]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Yeah, Newark.
[02:24:34.190 --> 02:24:34.830]  [KIRBY_CAND]: It's New Jersey.
[02:24:35.150 --> 02:24:35.310]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Yeah.
[02:24:35.450 --> 02:24:40.050]  [KIRBY_CAND]: We have a, we have a downtown airport that it's basically like getting on a bus.
[02:24:40.250 --> 02:24:46.810]  [KIRBY_CAND]: Like you go down, um, to the basically middle of just downtown and then there's an airport right there.
[02:24:46.910 --> 02:24:53.070]  [KIRBY_CAND]: You take a little, you take a little tunnel or there used to be a ferry like 10 minutes or five minutes and you can fly in the plane.
[02:24:53.190 --> 02:24:55.130]  [KIRBY_CAND]: It's like an hour and 20 minutes to that airport.
[02:24:56.430 --> 02:24:56.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:24:57.010 --> 02:24:57.790]  [KIRBY_CAND]: From downtown Toronto.
[02:24:58.370 --> 02:24:58.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: Interesting.
[02:25:00.990 --> 02:25:03.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, whichever way you go, um, I'm sure it'll be good.
[02:25:03.790 --> 02:25:04.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: It'll be unique.
[02:25:06.590 --> 02:25:09.670]  [KIRBY_CAND]: We're going to figure it out and we're going to, uh, we'll get there one way or another.
[02:25:10.030 --> 02:25:10.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:25:10.570 --> 02:25:13.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: And keep checking hope.net for updates on the conferences.
[02:25:13.550 --> 02:25:14.310]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's going to be amazing.
[02:25:14.610 --> 02:25:15.290]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Thanks for listening.
[02:25:15.630 --> 02:25:16.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, absolutely.
[02:25:16.710 --> 02:25:17.850]  [GILADRAZEN]: And we'll see you in July.
[02:25:18.570 --> 02:25:18.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[02:25:18.930 --> 02:25:19.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: Take care.
[02:25:19.630 --> 02:25:19.890]  [GILADRAZEN]: Great.
[02:25:20.710 --> 02:25:21.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: Bye-bye.
[02:25:22.170 --> 02:25:24.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I think that's going to do it for us here tonight.
[02:25:26.030 --> 02:25:26.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: Right?
[02:25:26.730 --> 02:25:27.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's so early.
[02:25:28.350 --> 02:25:30.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: Actually, it's, it's, it's nine 30.
[02:25:30.270 --> 02:25:32.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: We've been at this an hour and a half and good 90 minutes.
[02:25:32.590 --> 02:25:33.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we did an hour show before that.
[02:25:34.090 --> 02:25:36.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, uh, it's not, it's not as early as you might think.
[02:25:37.210 --> 02:25:37.910]  [ALEXURBELS]: Oh yeah.
[02:25:38.310 --> 02:25:41.090]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, I was being sarcastic, but it's hard to tell.
[02:25:41.850 --> 02:25:42.210]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[02:25:43.190 --> 02:25:43.550]  [ROBVINCENT]: Sarcasm.
[02:25:43.750 --> 02:25:43.830]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah.
[02:25:43.910 --> 02:25:44.370]  [ALEXURBELS]: That'll work.
[02:25:44.470 --> 02:25:45.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I do enjoy this.
[02:25:45.610 --> 02:25:47.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: I enjoy your sarcasm so much.
[02:25:49.510 --> 02:25:50.490]  [ROBVINCENT]: Sarcasm is the best.
[02:25:50.650 --> 02:25:51.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: It is.
[02:25:51.370 --> 02:25:53.230]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Um, again, it's just like the station.
[02:25:53.430 --> 02:25:59.690]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It's like, everybody's like, Hey, we should, uh, we should all, we should all be serious.
[02:25:59.770 --> 02:26:02.890]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And someone's like, yeah, I'm going to do sarcasm.
[02:26:02.910 --> 02:26:03.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: Let's do that.
[02:26:03.590 --> 02:26:08.090]  [KYLEDROSDK]: That's like the equivalent to the fundraising or like, let's destroy the station thing.
[02:26:09.930 --> 02:26:10.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: A lot of that going around.
[02:26:11.230 --> 02:26:11.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:26:11.530 --> 02:26:15.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, uh, oth@2600.com email address, uh, right to us.
[02:26:15.890 --> 02:26:17.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, as far as I know, we'll be back next week.
[02:26:17.870 --> 02:26:27.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, um, yes, um, keep checking hope.net for updates on, on that and, um, send us your stories or thoughts or anything like that.
[02:26:27.250 --> 02:26:36.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're looking for speakers for the conference and workshop participants and anything you have an idea to do, we can probably help you do it at the conference.
[02:26:37.010 --> 02:26:39.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: So that's, um, that's pretty awesome.
[02:26:39.750 --> 02:26:40.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[02:26:40.690 --> 02:26:41.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: Till next week.
[02:26:41.490 --> 02:26:41.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good night.