[00:01.120 --> 00:03.520] [SPEAKER_06]: Let that Tibetan chant music get into you.
[00:03.640 --> 00:04.660] [SPEAKER_06]: Get into your soul.
[00:06.140 --> 00:08.580] [SPEAKER_06]: Let it get into the marrow of your bone.
[00:08.840 --> 00:09.360] [SPEAKER_06]: Feel it.
[00:10.960 --> 00:17.540] [SPEAKER_06]: 212-209-2950 Or go to give2wbai.org online.
[00:18.060 --> 00:20.680] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I'm having a little too much fun right now.
[00:21.440 --> 00:24.160] [SPEAKER_06]: Stay tuned for...
[00:25.000 --> 00:26.740] [SPEAKER_06]: Off The Hook coming up.
[00:26.960 --> 00:28.540] [SPEAKER_06]: It's two minutes past 7 p.m.
[00:40.860 --> 00:47.560] [SPEAKER_00]: Due to local telephone company trouble in the area you are calling, your call cannot be completed at this time.
[00:47.840 --> 00:49.040] [SPEAKER_00]: Please try your call later.
[00:49.660 --> 00:50.680] [SPEAKER_00]: 078-T
[02:27.060 --> 02:29.120] [EVILCORLEY]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:29.220 --> 02:31.380] [EVILCORLEY]: The program is Off The Hook.
[02:32.620 --> 02:36.900] [EVILCORLEY]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening, joined tonight by Kyle.
[02:37.300 --> 02:37.420] [KYLEDROSDK]: Yep.
[02:38.040 --> 02:41.540] [EVILCORLEY]: And out there in Skype-land, we have Rob T. Firefly.
[02:42.100 --> 02:43.000] [ROBVINCENT]: Good evening.
[02:43.260 --> 02:44.040] [EVILCORLEY]: We have Gila.
[02:44.480 --> 02:45.220] [GILADRAZEN]: Good evening.
[02:45.480 --> 02:46.220] [EVILCORLEY]: And we have Alex.
[02:46.860 --> 02:47.660] [GILADRAZEN]: Good evening.
[02:48.600 --> 02:49.800] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, folks, we're back.
[02:50.000 --> 02:50.740] [EVILCORLEY]: We're back.
[02:51.320 --> 02:53.340] [EVILCORLEY]: Unfortunately, the country didn't come back with us.
[02:53.340 --> 03:01.040] [EVILCORLEY]: We left it behind and don't know what's going on, but we're not in the same place we were two weeks ago when we were here last.
[03:03.240 --> 03:18.880] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I guess we sort of have to focus on that a little bit, at least, because there's certainly technological issues that are related to rights being taken away and to a changing landscape.
[03:19.700 --> 03:22.620] [EVILCORLEY]: And I know we have a lot of insight on that.
[03:22.620 --> 03:23.960] [EVILCORLEY]: We're going to talk about that.
[03:25.020 --> 03:26.580] [EVILCORLEY]: A couple of programming notes.
[03:26.580 --> 03:31.720] [EVILCORLEY]: We are not going to be on next week because there is a national fundraiser scheduled for next Wednesday.
[03:31.880 --> 03:35.400] [EVILCORLEY]: So this is our only show for the next two weeks.
[03:35.400 --> 03:41.700] [EVILCORLEY]: We'll have Overtime coming up at 8 o'clock where you can call us and be part of the conversation.
[03:41.700 --> 03:42.520] [EVILCORLEY]: That's always fun.
[03:43.420 --> 03:50.700] [EVILCORLEY]: But we also want to encourage you, as you may have heard just before our show, that it's important to support WBAI.
[03:51.600 --> 03:53.780] [EVILCORLEY]: And we want to encourage you to do that.
[03:54.240 --> 03:55.780] [EVILCORLEY]: Folks, any words on this?
[03:57.760 --> 04:14.680] [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah, we say this every time we do these fun drives, but something really important to consider is that this is the only way that we have ever managed to keep the station afloat, to keep the bills paid, is to do what we're doing right now and ask you,
[04:14.800 --> 04:16.960] [ROBVINCENT]: the listeners, for direct support.
[04:16.960 --> 04:19.960] [ROBVINCENT]: We don't accept paid ads of any kind.
[04:20.160 --> 04:22.820] [ROBVINCENT]: We don't have any sort of other income streams like that.
[04:23.040 --> 04:23.840] [ROBVINCENT]: This is it.
[04:23.940 --> 04:31.300] [ROBVINCENT]: And this is what's kept the station on the air in prime radio country, in prime real estate on the radio dial since 1960.
[04:32.960 --> 04:34.340] [ROBVINCENT]: So do what you can.
[04:34.440 --> 04:41.220] [ROBVINCENT]: Go to give2wbai.org or call 212-209-29...
[04:41.760 --> 04:42.820] [ROBVINCENT]: Is that the phone number?
[04:43.200 --> 04:44.120] [EVILCORLEY]: 2950, yes.
[04:44.600 --> 04:45.560] [ROBVINCENT]: 2950, yes.
[04:46.960 --> 04:49.400] [ROBVINCENT]: I've only been saying this number for, what, 13 years and change.
[04:50.320 --> 04:54.620] [ROBVINCENT]: 212-209-2950 or give2wbai.org.
[04:54.780 --> 05:03.620] [ROBVINCENT]: And you can be part of this and be a member of our supporting listenership and have a say in where things go here at WBAI.
[05:04.320 --> 05:05.160] [ROBVINCENT]: Yes, Alex.
[05:06.640 --> 05:16.480] [ALEXURBELS]: To echo Rob's remarks, I also just want to say, you know, I think WBAI exists precisely for times like these.
[05:16.480 --> 05:31.740] [ALEXURBELS]: When our country is in crisis and our country needs dialogue more than anything else in order to begin to heal these divisions and rifts that have been formed, especially over the last six or so years during the Trump administration.
[05:32.560 --> 05:37.220] [ALEXURBELS]: I also think that, you know, that was a critical time for WBAI to exist.
[05:37.400 --> 05:41.540] [ALEXURBELS]: Imagine if WBAI did not exist during the Trump era.
[05:42.360 --> 05:50.240] [ALEXURBELS]: And I think we're all thankful for the fact that it continues to exist despite the many, many efforts to shut this place down.
[05:50.240 --> 05:56.640] [ALEXURBELS]: And that's entirely because of listeners like you, on whom we have to rely.
[05:56.900 --> 05:57.960] [ALEXURBELS]: So please support the station.
[05:58.900 --> 05:59.920] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, thank you for that.
[06:00.320 --> 06:02.440] [EVILCORLEY]: Not the efforts to shut us down.
[06:02.460 --> 06:03.420] [EVILCORLEY]: That's not because of listeners.
[06:03.560 --> 06:04.300] [EVILCORLEY]: That's because of idiots.
[06:05.300 --> 06:09.240] [EVILCORLEY]: That's because of all kinds of people that are enemies in one sort or another.
[06:09.940 --> 06:13.960] [EVILCORLEY]: And we will always be in their crosshairs and future crosshairs.
[06:14.240 --> 06:18.640] [EVILCORLEY]: That's why it's so important that you help keep this place around.
[06:18.820 --> 06:23.560] [EVILCORLEY]: Because as you guys are saying, imagine if this place wasn't around during Trump.
[06:23.660 --> 06:28.640] [EVILCORLEY]: And imagine if this place wasn't around during Nixon or during the 60s or all those periods.
[06:28.760 --> 06:32.580] [EVILCORLEY]: We've been on the air since 1960 broadcasting alternatives to the New York City area.
[06:32.920 --> 06:35.280] [EVILCORLEY]: And it's never been more vital than now.
[06:35.380 --> 06:35.760] [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Gila.
[06:36.340 --> 06:39.020] [GILADRAZEN]: The other thing to keep in mind is that you can give.
[06:39.160 --> 06:40.200] [GILADRAZEN]: You can give outright.
[06:40.200 --> 06:42.860] [GILADRAZEN]: You can also become a WBAI buddy.
[06:43.300 --> 06:53.800] [GILADRAZEN]: One of the best things you can do for our station, for any nonprofit really, but for our station is what we're talking about right now, is for us to have a reliable, regular stream of income.
[06:54.060 --> 07:01.920] [GILADRAZEN]: And if you become a WBAI buddy with a nominal monthly gift, you can be a part of the conversation.
[07:02.700 --> 07:05.500] [GILADRAZEN]: And it'll just get taken care of for you automatically.
[07:05.760 --> 07:07.600] [GILADRAZEN]: give2wbai.org.
[07:07.740 --> 07:08.920] [GILADRAZEN]: Sign up as a WBAI buddy.
[07:09.360 --> 07:12.560] [GILADRAZEN]: Added bonus, they will ask you if there's a particular show you want to support.
[07:12.740 --> 07:15.660] [GILADRAZEN]: You can mention us, if you like.
[07:16.460 --> 07:17.620] [GILADRAZEN]: That's always an option.
[07:18.160 --> 07:19.520] [GILADRAZEN]: We would appreciate that, too.
[07:20.100 --> 07:24.940] [EVILCORLEY]: And to prove that you will become part of the conversation if you do something like this.
[07:24.940 --> 07:27.300] [EVILCORLEY]: Is there perhaps somebody that we wish to thank?
[07:29.160 --> 07:30.380] [ROBVINCENT]: There is, indeed.
[07:30.800 --> 07:39.380] [ROBVINCENT]: We would like to thank our listener, Eleanor, who renewed her membership and support for WBAI and let us know about it.
[07:39.380 --> 07:46.580] [ROBVINCENT]: And we want to reach out to all the rest of you out there who want to be like Eleanor, be cool like Eleanor.
[07:46.800 --> 07:53.300] [ROBVINCENT]: And call 212-209-2950 or go to WBAI.org and show what support you can.
[07:53.300 --> 07:57.340] [ROBVINCENT]: And, yeah, let us know about it because we do enjoy hearing about it.
[07:57.400 --> 08:09.800] [ROBVINCENT]: We do really appreciate everyone who has invited our voices into your homes and automobiles and audio storage devices over the years to be part of what we're doing here.
[08:09.800 --> 08:15.940] [ROBVINCENT]: And this is how you do it, 212-209-2950 or give2wbai.org.
[08:16.080 --> 08:16.840] [EVILCORLEY]: Be like Eleanor.
[08:16.940 --> 08:17.580] [EVILCORLEY]: I like the sound of that.
[08:17.700 --> 08:23.660] [EVILCORLEY]: That's the call to arms, 212-209-2950 or give2wbai.org.
[08:23.820 --> 08:24.180] [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, Gila.
[08:24.640 --> 08:36.020] [GILADRAZEN]: Also, don't forget, if you give at a minimum level, which I think is $25 or $35, you also become a voting member of WBAI's audience.
[08:36.020 --> 08:43.960] [GILADRAZEN]: And that is very, very, very important, especially given some of the things that have been going on in the broader world.
[08:44.960 --> 08:49.580] [GILADRAZEN]: The more people who can vote in WBAI elections, the better.
[08:49.880 --> 08:52.540] [GILADRAZEN]: I'm not going to get too more specific about that, but keep that in mind, too.
[08:52.540 --> 09:07.220] [KYLEDROSDK]: So crucial with this model, with this community station, and a big heartfelt thanks to everybody who was able to contribute and who's thinking about it and picking up the phone right now and talking to the good people that are taking those pledges.
[09:07.500 --> 09:13.840] [KYLEDROSDK]: Everybody at the station, they do tell us when you're mentioning the show.
[09:13.840 --> 09:17.380] [KYLEDROSDK]: So that's passed along, and they're grateful.
[09:17.380 --> 09:20.440] [KYLEDROSDK]: And we are, too, for all of your continued support.
[09:21.320 --> 09:24.620] [ROBVINCENT]: And, yes, that number, just to be clear, is $25.
[09:24.920 --> 09:29.620] [ROBVINCENT]: If you donate $25 or more to this station, you're a voting member of WBAI.
[09:30.240 --> 09:30.680] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[09:30.760 --> 09:36.180] [EVILCORLEY]: And occasionally something very important will come down the road that people vote on.
[09:36.180 --> 09:41.460] [EVILCORLEY]: I think recently there was a vote basically saying, do you want your vote to count as much?
[09:41.740 --> 09:43.780] [EVILCORLEY]: Not in those words, but basically that was the gist of it.
[09:43.980 --> 09:48.040] [EVILCORLEY]: Do you want your vote to count as much, or do you want maybe somebody else to take care of it for you?
[09:48.480 --> 09:49.620] [EVILCORLEY]: How do you think that went over?
[09:50.580 --> 09:55.000] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, Pacifica is no different than any other entity that has voting members.
[09:55.320 --> 10:01.120] [EVILCORLEY]: It's constantly under threat of democracy going out the window.
[10:01.440 --> 10:02.700] [EVILCORLEY]: That's why we have to stay alert.
[10:02.700 --> 10:06.260] [EVILCORLEY]: Not only on a local basis, on a national basis, everywhere.
[10:06.260 --> 10:07.480] [EVILCORLEY]: We have to stay alert.
[10:07.640 --> 10:12.920] [EVILCORLEY]: And we can't be dissuaded because, you know, we're going to suffer setbacks.
[10:13.180 --> 10:15.900] [EVILCORLEY]: We sure have suffered some setbacks in the last week.
[10:16.580 --> 10:22.320] [EVILCORLEY]: But I like to think that that just makes us all the more determined to fight back and fight back hard.
[10:24.220 --> 10:26.200] [EVILCORLEY]: And we need to start doing that right now.
[10:27.080 --> 10:29.460] [EVILCORLEY]: And with that, let's start doing that right now.
[10:29.460 --> 10:31.140] [EVILCORLEY]: Let's start talking about what happened.
[10:31.560 --> 10:32.460] [EVILCORLEY]: Of course, Roe v.
[10:32.580 --> 10:35.780] [EVILCORLEY]: Wade was overturned last Friday.
[10:36.960 --> 10:38.860] [EVILCORLEY]: We weren't really surprised by this.
[10:39.020 --> 10:41.540] [EVILCORLEY]: In fact, we even saw a draft of it a couple of months ago.
[10:42.400 --> 10:44.420] [EVILCORLEY]: And been warning about it for years.
[10:44.800 --> 10:45.660] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, it happened.
[10:45.920 --> 10:47.160] [EVILCORLEY]: Don't feel good about being right.
[10:47.880 --> 10:51.300] [EVILCORLEY]: But the question now is, what do we do at this point?
[10:51.440 --> 10:55.440] [EVILCORLEY]: There was an interesting statement on the website of the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
[10:55.960 --> 10:57.660] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm just going to read a couple of paragraphs here.
[10:57.660 --> 11:03.060] [EVILCORLEY]: Today's decision, written last Friday, obviously, deprives millions of people of a fundamental right.
[11:03.140 --> 11:07.920] [EVILCORLEY]: And also underscores the importance of fair and meaningful protections for data privacy.
[11:08.520 --> 11:15.380] [EVILCORLEY]: Everyone deserves to have strong controls over the collection and use of information they necessarily leave behind as they go about their normal activities.
[11:15.880 --> 11:22.240] [EVILCORLEY]: Like using apps, search engine queries, posting on social media, texting friends, so on.
[11:22.240 --> 11:33.640] [EVILCORLEY]: But those seeking, offering, or facilitating abortion access must now assume that any data they provide online or offline could be sought by law enforcement.
[11:34.220 --> 11:37.560] [EVILCORLEY]: Can't believe you have to say these words, but that's the reality right now.
[11:37.780 --> 11:47.940] [EVILCORLEY]: People should carefully review privacy settings on the services they use, turn off location services on apps that don't need them, and use encrypted messaging services.
[11:48.420 --> 12:09.200] [EVILCORLEY]: Companies should protect users by allowing anonymous access, stopping behavioral tracking, strengthening data deletion policies, encrypting data in transit, enabling end-to-end message encryption by default, preventing location tracking, and ensuring that users get notice when their data is being sought.
[12:09.200 --> 12:13.620] [EVILCORLEY]: And state and federal policymakers must pass meaningful privacy legislation.
[12:13.940 --> 12:17.460] [EVILCORLEY]: All of these steps are needed to protect privacy, and all are long overdue.
[12:17.880 --> 12:22.960] [EVILCORLEY]: You can read a lot more on the EFF at their reproductive rights issue page.
[12:23.100 --> 12:26.460] [EVILCORLEY]: Just go to EFF.org, and you'll be directed over to that.
[12:26.920 --> 12:37.640] [EVILCORLEY]: This raises so many important issues, and I think we need to focus on every single one of them and let people know the best ways that they can protect themselves.
[12:37.640 --> 12:43.740] [EVILCORLEY]: All the training we've been doing over the decades, here's where it comes, you know, in handy.
[12:44.080 --> 12:49.080] [EVILCORLEY]: Here's where it becomes essential, because, yeah, they are watching.
[12:49.280 --> 12:50.400] [EVILCORLEY]: They are listening.
[12:50.640 --> 12:51.640] [EVILCORLEY]: They are tracking.
[12:52.320 --> 13:01.220] [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, it may not affect any of us in our various rooms right now, but it's affecting an awful lot of people throughout this country.
[13:01.880 --> 13:03.360] [EVILCORLEY]: And we have to help.
[13:03.560 --> 13:04.360] [EVILCORLEY]: We have to fight back.
[13:04.520 --> 13:11.440] [EVILCORLEY]: We have to figure out ways to use technology to basically defeat the Taliban that is now running this country.
[13:11.620 --> 13:13.220] [EVILCORLEY]: And, yeah, it is the Taliban.
[13:13.380 --> 13:15.120] [EVILCORLEY]: There is no difference as far as I'm concerned.
[13:15.180 --> 13:20.440] [EVILCORLEY]: And we should fight them with as much vigor as we would fight in someone else's country.
[13:20.620 --> 13:22.800] [EVILCORLEY]: This is happening right here in our country.
[13:23.520 --> 13:24.840] [EVILCORLEY]: Rights are being taken away.
[13:24.940 --> 13:25.540] [EVILCORLEY]: It never happened before.
[13:25.540 --> 13:33.220] [EVILCORLEY]: It's never happened before where constitutional rights have been taken away through a ruling by the Supreme Court.
[13:34.080 --> 13:39.780] [EVILCORLEY]: And I'd like to get into some of the particulars of the Supreme Court, maybe with Alex, in a little bit.
[13:41.300 --> 13:44.880] [EVILCORLEY]: But you folks have any ideas on technology?
[13:45.140 --> 13:54.200] [EVILCORLEY]: When I was reading about the basically encrypted messaging services, I'm thinking that's something that we can help with.
[13:55.140 --> 13:56.120] [EVILCORLEY]: I use Signal.
[13:56.380 --> 14:02.240] [EVILCORLEY]: I use Signal on my phone and through computer communications.
[14:02.340 --> 14:04.720] [EVILCORLEY]: It can be a real pain in the ass sometimes.
[14:06.040 --> 14:07.580] [EVILCORLEY]: Notifications don't always go through.
[14:07.960 --> 14:12.960] [EVILCORLEY]: And sometimes messages get lost if people decide not to use Signal anymore.
[14:13.780 --> 14:16.360] [EVILCORLEY]: But I do know that the messages are being encrypted.
[14:16.420 --> 14:17.800] [EVILCORLEY]: So there's that at least.
[14:17.920 --> 14:20.660] [EVILCORLEY]: But if there are better options, let's hear them as well.
[14:20.660 --> 14:22.440] [EVILCORLEY]: Or let's improve the ones that we are using.
[14:22.600 --> 14:22.960] [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, Alex.
[14:24.000 --> 14:37.460] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, with respect to that specific point about Signal, I think it bears mentioning that Signal, when used on a mobile phone, and especially an iPhone, is going to be pretty damn secure.
[14:37.940 --> 14:49.320] [ALEXURBELS]: Especially with iPhones, really, you know, they don't have nearly as many vulnerabilities as, let's say, you know, an Android device where you have greater control over the device.
[14:51.080 --> 15:03.320] [ALEXURBELS]: I was mentioning that if you take Signal and you install it on your desktop, you've now installed this on an endpoint that is far less secure than a mobile phone.
[15:03.600 --> 15:09.940] [ALEXURBELS]: And so using Signal on some kind of desktop machine could really sacrifice a lot of your privacy.
[15:11.480 --> 15:26.720] [ALEXURBELS]: In particular, because it may be possible to reconstruct some additional bits of data from your conversations, even if they're deleted, if they had persisted at one point on a Signal desktop machine.
[15:26.840 --> 15:36.220] [ALEXURBELS]: And a lot of this, I've done a bunch of forensic analyses with respect to Signal and the ability to recover certain types of data.
[15:36.220 --> 15:54.320] [ALEXURBELS]: And sometimes it may depend on the version of Signal that you're running on the desktop, when it was last updated, when you were last rebooted, as well as if you had deleted Signal from your machine, if you've gone through the proper deletion procedure for Signal.
[15:54.320 --> 16:00.900] [ALEXURBELS]: Now, so all of these things can really have some massive impact on whether or not you're...
[16:02.860 --> 16:04.740] [EVILCORLEY]: You're freezing occasionally, Alex.
[16:05.340 --> 16:07.020] [EVILCORLEY]: Do you want to just repeat that last sentence?
[16:08.200 --> 16:08.720] [ALEXURBELS]: Certainly.
[16:08.940 --> 16:14.680] [ALEXURBELS]: I think, you know, all of these variances may have a massive impact on the privacy of your communications.
[16:14.680 --> 16:36.380] [ALEXURBELS]: But I think, you know, I want to go a little bit further here and more fundamental with respect to what the EFF said, that all of this information about you, where you go, your communications with whom you may be messaging, all of this information may now be much more accessible to law enforcement than it was before.
[16:36.380 --> 16:42.500] [ALEXURBELS]: And the reason behind that is because now that Roe v.
[16:42.580 --> 16:50.520] [ALEXURBELS]: Wade is overturned and abortion may be illegal in certain states, and facilitating abortion may be illegal in certain states, those are now crimes.
[16:50.720 --> 16:52.520] [ALEXURBELS]: It may be a crime to have an abortion.
[16:52.680 --> 16:58.420] [ALEXURBELS]: It may be a crime to help somebody get an abortion or to take somebody over even near an abortion clinic.
[16:58.720 --> 17:03.460] [ALEXURBELS]: So all of this, because they are crimes, they can be investigated by law enforcement.
[17:03.460 --> 17:05.420] [ALEXURBELS]: Things that law enforcement can investigate.
[17:06.020 --> 17:12.020] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, if there's probable cause, then that means that they may be able to have access to your devices.
[17:12.240 --> 17:14.300] [ALEXURBELS]: They may be able to have access to your homes.
[17:14.480 --> 17:22.560] [ALEXURBELS]: They may be able to obtain access to your social media accounts or your email accounts, your geolocation information.
[17:22.560 --> 17:32.920] [ALEXURBELS]: All of this data, all of a sudden, because now we're talking about potentially criminal activity, can be accessed by the government on the basis of probable cause.
[17:33.120 --> 17:39.480] [ALEXURBELS]: That's a really scary situation, which makes the security of those communications much, much more important.
[17:39.720 --> 17:41.540] [EVILCORLEY]: Can I just... I'll get you in a second, Rob.
[17:41.600 --> 17:46.860] [EVILCORLEY]: I just, you know, in my somewhat mischievous way, thinking of ways to screw these people up.
[17:48.640 --> 17:52.220] [EVILCORLEY]: If you say you're pregnant, do they take you at your word?
[17:52.360 --> 17:57.660] [EVILCORLEY]: If you spread the word that you're pregnant, and then suddenly you're not pregnant, what if everybody did that?
[17:57.760 --> 18:01.780] [EVILCORLEY]: What if millions of people who weren't actually pregnant started lying about it?
[18:02.100 --> 18:03.560] [EVILCORLEY]: Would they be charged with crimes?
[18:03.720 --> 18:04.640] [EVILCORLEY]: Would it confuse the system?
[18:04.800 --> 18:05.780] [EVILCORLEY]: Would it slow down the system?
[18:06.180 --> 18:07.340] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, we need to be creative.
[18:07.480 --> 18:09.800] [EVILCORLEY]: This is, you know, maybe not the best way, but it's one way.
[18:10.680 --> 18:14.540] [EVILCORLEY]: And I'm trying to think of different ways, at least once every couple of minutes.
[18:15.140 --> 18:32.180] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, I mean, look, I think distorting the signal-to-noise ratio about who is, in fact, violating the law and who isn't, making it almost impossible to mine that type of data would probably be valuable in preventing the state from figuring out who, in fact,
[18:32.260 --> 18:34.220] [ALEXURBELS]: was having an abortion and who wasn't.
[18:34.500 --> 18:38.060] [ALEXURBELS]: But I think if you combine that with, let's say, Emmanuel, with other data points, right?
[18:38.440 --> 18:41.420] [ALEXURBELS]: Someone could say that they're pregnant and then says that they're not pregnant.
[18:41.420 --> 18:42.780] [ALEXURBELS]: Those are two data points.
[18:42.940 --> 18:46.200] [ALEXURBELS]: But did that person ever venture near an abortion clinic?
[18:46.600 --> 18:53.400] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, did they go near a pharmacy, perhaps, to get some kind of now illegal abortion pill?
[18:53.760 --> 19:03.240] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, there's other data points, I guess, that you could match up with this, but it would require, you know, I think, a greater amount of effort on the part of the state to investigate.
[19:03.240 --> 19:06.880] [ALEXURBELS]: So these types of things, I think, do have some validity.
[19:07.200 --> 19:09.860] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, coordinated attacks, I think, is what we have to start thinking about.
[19:10.080 --> 19:12.240] [EVILCORLEY]: Ways to really screw them up.
[19:12.740 --> 19:16.460] [EVILCORLEY]: And as hackers, I think that that's something that sort of comes naturally.
[19:16.840 --> 19:17.380] [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, go ahead, Rob.
[19:18.500 --> 19:19.700] [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah, I wanted to ask Alex.
[19:19.700 --> 19:22.820] [ROBVINCENT]: Like, this whole thing, I mean, Roe v.
[19:22.900 --> 19:34.200] [ROBVINCENT]: Wade was overturned, and that seemed to be rooted in sort of a reinterpretation of fundamental rights to privacy that we thought we had, and it turns out don't.
[19:34.780 --> 19:44.400] [ROBVINCENT]: How does that relate to not only issues of around abortion now and personal health, but also other privacy type things that we can no longer take for granted?
[19:44.960 --> 19:51.000] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, well, Rob, it's terrifying, because, you know, let's just start at the beginning here, right?
[19:51.060 --> 19:59.380] [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, think about the text of the Constitution, the text of the Constitution, and in particular, we always think about the Fourth Amendment when we think about privacy.
[20:00.020 --> 20:02.980] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, nowhere in the Constitution is the word privacy.
[20:03.160 --> 20:04.040] [ALEXURBELS]: It just doesn't exist.
[20:04.040 --> 20:08.880] [ALEXURBELS]: It wasn't a concept that was thought about by the Founding Fathers back in the 18th century.
[20:09.080 --> 20:10.000] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, neither were bullets.
[20:10.220 --> 20:12.340] [EVILCORLEY]: Neither were modern armaments.
[20:12.440 --> 20:13.280] [EVILCORLEY]: Those weren't there either.
[20:13.280 --> 20:21.920] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, bullets, AR-15s, a lot of things that we think are fundamental, you know, to our rights, we're just missing an asset from the Constitution.
[20:22.180 --> 20:37.180] [ALEXURBELS]: But with any explicit mention of privacy, yet the courts over time have derived this right to privacy through a long line of decisions that goes back to, like, the 1890s.
[20:37.180 --> 20:41.660] [ALEXURBELS]: There was a case, and I believe this was actually even cited in Roe v.
[20:41.740 --> 20:41.940] [ALEXURBELS]: Wade.
[20:42.160 --> 20:49.380] [ALEXURBELS]: I think the case was Union Pacific Railroad versus Oxford, something like that.
[20:49.600 --> 21:02.900] [ALEXURBELS]: But anyway, that was a case where it was found that there was this personal zone of privacy that the court did not have authorization to violate by ordering some kind of surgical examination of a plaintiff.
[21:02.900 --> 21:04.960] [ALEXURBELS]: That was what was at issue there.
[21:05.140 --> 21:16.960] [ALEXURBELS]: And so going back even to the late 19th century, the Supreme Court was finding that there was this zone of personal privacy that even though it wasn't referenced in the Constitution, it existed.
[21:16.960 --> 21:24.020] [ALEXURBELS]: And then the courts over time, you know, you go back to the late 60s, and you find that, you know, they looked at cases like Stanley v.
[21:24.120 --> 21:33.580] [ALEXURBELS]: Georgia, and they found that, you know, there's privacy rights derived even from the First Amendment, and then obviously the Fourth Amendment, and the Fifth Amendment, the right against self-incrimination.
[21:33.580 --> 21:37.480] [ALEXURBELS]: You can't compel somebody to say something that would incriminate them.
[21:37.600 --> 21:38.840] [ALEXURBELS]: That's part of privacy.
[21:39.420 --> 21:42.640] [ALEXURBELS]: And then you even have, you know, something from like Griswold v.
[21:42.780 --> 21:54.820] [ALEXURBELS]: Connecticut, this concept that in the penumbras and emanations of the Bill of Rights, or, you know, the shadows of the Bill of Rights, can be derived this additional right of privacy.
[21:54.820 --> 22:04.800] [ALEXURBELS]: And that the 14th Amendment, in its concept of guaranteeing liberty to all people, also guaranteed privacy.
[22:05.200 --> 22:20.660] [ALEXURBELS]: But then there's a really long way of getting right back to your question here, Rob, which is that derived from this concept of personal privacy is this, you know, is a whole bunch of other issues, right?
[22:20.660 --> 22:31.180] [ALEXURBELS]: And all of these, over time, the court had found that these are privacy rights that were also fundamental to what it called the concept of ordered liberty.
[22:31.360 --> 22:40.940] [ALEXURBELS]: And a lot of these rights were things like marriage, things like gay marriage, the right to marry interracially, the right to marry with it, you know, somebody of the same sex.
[22:42.080 --> 22:51.280] [ALEXURBELS]: Procreation, obviously, that's what's at issue here, the ability to obtain contraception, how to raise your family, how to educate your children.
[22:51.800 --> 22:57.360] [ALEXURBELS]: All of these are fundamental rights that are premised on the concept of privacy.
[22:57.660 --> 23:00.580] [ALEXURBELS]: And so if we start pulling out Roe v.
[23:00.720 --> 23:08.060] [ALEXURBELS]: Wade from this Jenga-like structure that houses our privacy rights, it's going to be downright hazardous to our privacy rights.
[23:10.340 --> 23:10.820] [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[23:11.300 --> 23:23.660] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, as you were speaking, I was looking over this story that was on Bloomberg, the story of a teenager in Florida who suspected she was pregnant and she went to a clinic.
[23:24.760 --> 23:28.780] [EVILCORLEY]: And it turns out the clinic offered a free pregnancy test.
[23:28.940 --> 23:30.120] [EVILCORLEY]: That's what drew her down there.
[23:30.120 --> 23:36.660] [EVILCORLEY]: And she realized that it was actually an anti-abortion center that she had come to.
[23:37.360 --> 23:47.040] [EVILCORLEY]: And as she started to realize this, she went into a panic and said to a receptionist, this information isn't going to go anywhere, right?
[23:47.040 --> 23:48.940] [EVILCORLEY]: This information isn't going to be shared.
[23:49.740 --> 23:53.360] [EVILCORLEY]: And she was told, honey, that's what happens when you have sex.
[23:53.640 --> 23:54.660] [EVILCORLEY]: That's what she was told.
[23:54.660 --> 24:02.660] [EVILCORLEY]: And that's what we're talking about here, where people's privacy is just wantonly invaded, abused.
[24:04.220 --> 24:11.420] [EVILCORLEY]: Now, she was able to get an abortion from a different provider, but she also ended up in a database.
[24:11.740 --> 24:19.980] [EVILCORLEY]: And this anti-abortion center continued to call her every few weeks to ask for an update on the baby and offer parenting classes.
[24:21.360 --> 24:29.840] [EVILCORLEY]: And, yeah, now, were that to happen now, in certain states, she could be charged with a crime.
[24:30.140 --> 24:32.300] [EVILCORLEY]: She could be pursued as if she were a criminal.
[24:35.640 --> 24:38.620] [EVILCORLEY]: And these centers are popping up all over the place.
[24:39.540 --> 24:44.980] [EVILCORLEY]: They've been using apps to get to teenagers and women in their early 20s.
[24:44.980 --> 24:48.060] [EVILCORLEY]: They offer free pregnancy tests.
[24:48.620 --> 24:58.020] [EVILCORLEY]: And they basically try to exist alongside legitimate reproductive health providers.
[24:58.540 --> 25:00.560] [EVILCORLEY]: That's how they reach their audience.
[25:01.380 --> 25:07.380] [EVILCORLEY]: Now, Google is now requiring providers to note whether businesses are accredited to perform abortions or not.
[25:07.620 --> 25:14.400] [EVILCORLEY]: But the deceptive centers still remain en masse in states where women may no longer be able to find legitimate treatment.
[25:16.420 --> 25:22.200] [EVILCORLEY]: Choose Life Marketing is a digital marketing company that works with anti-abortion clinics in the U.S. and Ireland.
[25:23.060 --> 25:29.060] [EVILCORLEY]: They said in training material posted to its website that Snapchat is a great place to advertise to the younger generation.
[25:29.060 --> 25:34.900] [EVILCORLEY]: It gives tips on how to include imagery with young people wearing baggy clothing or hairstyles that reflect Gen Z.
[25:35.260 --> 25:43.300] [EVILCORLEY]: Like Facebook and Instagram, it would accelerate the word of mouth that has brought clients through your doors for many years.
[25:43.300 --> 25:45.580] [EVILCORLEY]: That's according to the Choose Life marketing site.
[25:46.300 --> 25:54.520] [EVILCORLEY]: Snapchat advertisements were effective at getting clients to directly respond to the ad and call pregnancy centers for appointments.
[25:55.380 --> 26:01.280] [EVILCORLEY]: They've gotten more savvy about tracking their visitors and collecting information that isn't protected by medical privacy laws.
[26:01.280 --> 26:15.660] [EVILCORLEY]: Tara Marthas, communications director at Women's Law Project, she said that if women in states where abortions are restricted visit the center and then fail to have a baby, there's a record that could be passed into the hands of overzealous prosecutors.
[26:16.940 --> 26:21.760] [EVILCORLEY]: So, you know, why doesn't everybody just visit these places?
[26:22.200 --> 26:30.460] [EVILCORLEY]: Why don't millions of people go visit these places and have their names taken down and then not have a baby?
[26:30.980 --> 26:32.300] [EVILCORLEY]: Millions and millions of people.
[26:33.680 --> 26:34.960] [EVILCORLEY]: That's only one.
[26:35.020 --> 26:36.420] [EVILCORLEY]: That's only one possible thing to do.
[26:36.960 --> 26:38.240] [EVILCORLEY]: We have to think of others.
[26:39.500 --> 26:41.920] [EVILCORLEY]: Rob Gila, I know you have to take off now.
[26:42.060 --> 26:43.140] [EVILCORLEY]: You'll be back for Overtime later?
[26:43.480 --> 26:44.080] [EVILCORLEY]: We will.
[26:44.080 --> 26:46.080] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, we'll see you at 8 o'clock or so.
[26:46.800 --> 26:48.340] [EVILCORLEY]: Thanks for your participation.
[26:49.660 --> 26:51.600] [EVILCORLEY]: And we will talk to you again.
[26:52.340 --> 26:52.680] [EVILCORLEY]: See you soon.
[26:52.960 --> 26:55.740] [EVILCORLEY]: Now, Alex, you know, I said I want to talk about the Supreme Court.
[26:57.240 --> 26:59.360] [EVILCORLEY]: I've got a problem with the Supreme Court, as you must know.
[27:00.000 --> 27:02.140] [EVILCORLEY]: I think we all do at this stage.
[27:03.500 --> 27:04.740] [EVILCORLEY]: Do you think they're still legitimate?
[27:04.960 --> 27:06.820] [EVILCORLEY]: Do you think there's still a legitimate form of government?
[27:06.860 --> 27:15.380] [EVILCORLEY]: I ask this because, you know, I was taught in school that there are three branches of government, executive, legislative, judicial, right?
[27:15.560 --> 27:16.800] [EVILCORLEY]: And they're all equal.
[27:17.020 --> 27:17.680] [EVILCORLEY]: They're all independent.
[27:18.260 --> 27:23.440] [EVILCORLEY]: But then I realized this judicial branch, it's picked by the president.
[27:24.040 --> 27:26.220] [EVILCORLEY]: It's voted on by the Senate.
[27:26.220 --> 27:33.040] [EVILCORLEY]: And in both cases, those bodies don't reflect the popular vote.
[27:33.940 --> 27:35.640] [EVILCORLEY]: They're controlled.
[27:36.040 --> 27:38.700] [EVILCORLEY]: That branch is controlled by another branch.
[27:39.020 --> 27:40.040] [EVILCORLEY]: How is it independent?
[27:43.190 --> 27:44.910] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, it's...
[27:45.730 --> 27:47.310] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not putting this on you, Alex.
[27:47.710 --> 27:51.830] [EVILCORLEY]: But, you know, these are serious thoughts I've been having over the past couple of weeks.
[27:51.830 --> 27:55.490] [EVILCORLEY]: And it just seems like they've lost the legitimacy completely.
[27:57.310 --> 27:59.170] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, that's what I want to address first.
[27:59.270 --> 28:01.410] [ALEXURBELS]: And then we can go back to this independence issue.
[28:01.550 --> 28:12.330] [ALEXURBELS]: But I think just in terms of the legitimacy of the court, there is this principle that comes up a lot during confirmation hearings.
[28:12.650 --> 28:15.030] [ALEXURBELS]: And, you know, you learn about this in law school.
[28:15.290 --> 28:18.250] [ALEXURBELS]: It's one of these fancy Latin words, stare decisis.
[28:19.190 --> 28:23.810] [ALEXURBELS]: Stare decisis, literally, the verb stare means to stand.
[28:24.050 --> 28:25.190] [ALEXURBELS]: Decisis is decision.
[28:25.430 --> 28:28.590] [ALEXURBELS]: So it literally translates to something like, you know, decision to stand.
[28:29.330 --> 28:33.670] [ALEXURBELS]: And that's the respect of precedent that had come before.
[28:34.470 --> 28:54.250] [ALEXURBELS]: And every Supreme Court justice nominee before Senate goes out there and claims that, before the Senate, under oath, claims that they respect the principle of stare decisis, which means that they will respect, you know, longstanding principles and cases and precedents of the court.
[28:55.730 --> 28:59.310] [ALEXURBELS]: And the most important of which was Roe v.
[28:59.410 --> 28:59.630] [ALEXURBELS]: Wade.
[28:59.630 --> 29:11.370] [ALEXURBELS]: And so there are a lot of arguments that these justices do not necessarily respect stare decisis or the principle and lied under oath when they said that they would respect Roe.
[29:11.450 --> 29:20.310] [ALEXURBELS]: But it would be very difficult to hold them accountable to that kind of statement because every case turns on individual facts.
[29:20.450 --> 29:23.290] [ALEXURBELS]: Every case is a little bit different legally and factually.
[29:23.290 --> 29:29.110] [ALEXURBELS]: And so it would be tough to, I think, hold a justice's feet to the fire for something that they said.
[29:29.530 --> 29:34.710] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, didn't they say very specifically that they would respect Roe v.
[29:34.730 --> 29:35.810] [EVILCORLEY]: Wade as president?
[29:36.130 --> 29:39.070] [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, nothing has really changed with Roe v.
[29:39.190 --> 29:39.370] [EVILCORLEY]: Wade.
[29:39.710 --> 29:43.510] [EVILCORLEY]: They lied under oath in front of the entire world.
[29:43.690 --> 29:46.030] [EVILCORLEY]: I don't understand why we can't hold them to that.
[29:46.570 --> 29:48.850] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, I think it would be...
[29:49.410 --> 29:57.630] [ALEXURBELS]: Look, we all know, I think, that they were not being entirely forthcoming with respect to their actual views on Roe v.
[29:57.730 --> 29:57.950] [ALEXURBELS]: Wade.
[29:58.190 --> 29:58.930] [ALEXURBELS]: That's one thing.
[29:59.090 --> 30:06.650] [ALEXURBELS]: It's another thing, you know, to actually try somebody and find them on the basis of the evidence that would be available for perjury.
[30:06.870 --> 30:09.890] [ALEXURBELS]: Because even though they overturned Roe v.
[30:10.010 --> 30:15.330] [ALEXURBELS]: Wade, it's on the basis of this new case that may have brought some additional legal arguments to light.
[30:15.330 --> 30:18.070] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, there's a lot of ways that you could wiggle out of that.
[30:18.270 --> 30:23.470] [ALEXURBELS]: But I want to go back to, I think, the more important issue here, though, which is the legitimacy of the court.
[30:23.710 --> 30:29.390] [ALEXURBELS]: And the legitimacy of the court, I think, has tremendously damaged right now.
[30:29.410 --> 30:30.730] [ALEXURBELS]: It really, really is.
[30:30.870 --> 30:42.810] [ALEXURBELS]: And this, I think, leads to your other point, Emmanuel, which is about how or why is the Supreme Court independent of the other two branches?
[30:42.810 --> 30:50.830] [ALEXURBELS]: And if these justices are appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate by a majority, how are they independent?
[30:51.150 --> 30:57.350] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, they're independent precisely because our framers gave them life tenure.
[30:57.570 --> 31:08.030] [ALEXURBELS]: And that life tenure is supposed to insulate the nine justices of the Supreme Court from the vicissitudes or the changes of political opinion.
[31:08.030 --> 31:14.390] [ALEXURBELS]: They are supposed to be able to take the long view on what's right for the country, what's right for the Constitution.
[31:14.710 --> 31:35.990] [ALEXURBELS]: And so by reneging on that promise and essentially that bargain that you get a life position if you are going to ignore the politics of the day and take the long view, that's how this decision has destroyed the legitimacy of the court and not just undermine the concept of stare decisis,
[31:36.070 --> 31:44.710] [ALEXURBELS]: but the very reason why the court exists and why justices have life tenure, I think, is called into question by this decision.
[31:45.070 --> 31:49.470] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I mean, yeah, three of them were appointed in the last four years.
[31:49.870 --> 31:52.130] [EVILCORLEY]: So I don't think they have much of a long view.
[31:52.330 --> 31:58.310] [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe in 50 years we can ask them, but now they seem to be doing the bidding of the person who put them there.
[31:58.310 --> 32:03.230] [EVILCORLEY]: And instead of calling it the Supreme Court, it should be called Trump's court because that's really what it is.
[32:03.610 --> 32:05.370] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, this is all because of him.
[32:06.630 --> 32:08.210] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, it is.
[32:08.290 --> 32:13.530] [ALEXURBELS]: And it just goes to show, you know, the power and the long tail that these Supreme Court appointments can have.
[32:13.670 --> 32:22.290] [ALEXURBELS]: You look at somebody like Clarence Thomas, who's been on the court for an extraordinarily long time now and has plans to do further damage.
[32:22.290 --> 32:23.810] [ALEXURBELS]: I believe he was the only justice.
[32:24.090 --> 32:25.510] [EVILCORLEY]: That guy is a menace.
[32:25.510 --> 32:30.150] [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, he should be physically removed, in my view, because I think he's lost his mind.
[32:30.370 --> 32:34.150] [EVILCORLEY]: He's got a psychopath wife who participated in January 6th.
[32:34.230 --> 32:37.090] [EVILCORLEY]: How are these things even remotely considered okay?
[32:37.850 --> 32:44.530] [EVILCORLEY]: It's, you know, it's like, you want to draw a parallel to Ukraine with Russia moving in.
[32:44.910 --> 32:46.690] [EVILCORLEY]: This is an invasion of a different sort.
[32:47.310 --> 32:49.690] [EVILCORLEY]: This is the coup continuing.
[32:50.050 --> 32:50.710] [EVILCORLEY]: All right?
[32:50.990 --> 32:55.230] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, the January 6th coup failed, but the Supreme Court coup succeeded.
[32:55.810 --> 32:59.670] [EVILCORLEY]: That's an occupying army that we have sitting in that building right now.
[32:59.850 --> 33:02.610] [EVILCORLEY]: I know, you know, there are good people on the court.
[33:02.830 --> 33:03.690] [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, Roe v.
[33:03.770 --> 33:05.110] [EVILCORLEY]: Wade fell five to four.
[33:05.450 --> 33:06.950] [EVILCORLEY]: One justice did this.
[33:07.770 --> 33:17.450] [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, I just think maybe we've outgrown these old guys telling us what's right and what's not, because clearly they don't know what's right and what's not.
[33:17.610 --> 33:19.110] [EVILCORLEY]: They don't even understand the Second Amendment.
[33:19.110 --> 33:33.510] [EVILCORLEY]: They, you know, they're putting the interpretation that was only introduced after Reagan and ignoring everything that came before that when we sort of got it and there weren't mass shootings all the time, you know.
[33:33.510 --> 33:43.310] [EVILCORLEY]: And now we live in this crazy world where basically anything goes and the right-wing minority gets anything they want.
[33:44.830 --> 33:58.510] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, I think that, you know, this goes back to the life tenure issue, which is I think that this concept of the Supreme Court certainly has, I think, great significance to our republic.
[33:58.510 --> 34:07.910] [ALEXURBELS]: I think it's important to have, you know, not just an executive and legislative body, but, you know, the judicial branch that can strike down things that are unconsciously.
[34:08.010 --> 34:20.570] [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, just living solely by positive law, the law that is created by legislatures, is frankly, you know, really what a lot of European countries do.
[34:20.790 --> 34:34.850] [ALEXURBELS]: They don't have the concept that we do or to the extent that we do of the common law, which is judge-made law, or having the law evolve by precedents being set and opinions being written over the ages by judges.
[34:35.210 --> 34:44.390] [ALEXURBELS]: But I think fundamentally this concept of the court with life tenure for justices that only works if the justices themselves live up to the bargain.
[34:44.850 --> 34:48.710] [ALEXURBELS]: Right now, they're getting the benefit of the bargain without any of the burden.
[34:48.970 --> 35:09.990] [ALEXURBELS]: Namely, they're getting a position for life that gives them tremendous power and influence over the course of this country without what we expect from them, which is to take the long view, to respect precedent, and to not be subject to the political whims of any particular election cycle.
[35:10.090 --> 35:10.830] [EVILCORLEY]: See, here's the thing.
[35:10.950 --> 35:26.310] [EVILCORLEY]: I don't see how you can get that if the choice is being made by people who don't have that sense, the people who are as involved in present-day politics as you can possibly be, namely the president and senators.
[35:26.570 --> 35:29.510] [EVILCORLEY]: Those are probably the worst people to be picking a judge.
[35:29.950 --> 35:38.190] [EVILCORLEY]: Why not have the judge or the justices picked by fellow judges in some other coordinated manner?
[35:38.590 --> 35:43.610] [EVILCORLEY]: That way, at least, you know, you have the hope that this isn't a political thing.
[35:43.610 --> 35:45.250] [EVILCORLEY]: It's a judicial thing.
[35:45.830 --> 35:47.770] [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, you know, you have federal judges everywhere.
[35:47.770 --> 35:49.370] [EVILCORLEY]: You have all kinds of other judges.
[35:50.290 --> 35:51.070] [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know.
[35:51.170 --> 35:52.870] [EVILCORLEY]: It's kind of like electing a pope.
[35:53.110 --> 35:58.130] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, they could all get together and say, this is what we've come up with, then hand it over to the Senate.
[35:58.290 --> 35:59.270] [EVILCORLEY]: See what they say about that.
[35:59.270 --> 36:00.970] [EVILCORLEY]: But it's much less political.
[36:01.790 --> 36:07.370] [EVILCORLEY]: And you might actually get somebody who is interested in justice, not politics.
[36:08.190 --> 36:10.750] [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, look, you make an interesting point.
[36:10.750 --> 36:23.390] [ALEXURBELS]: I don't entirely agree with it, though, because if you look at history here, you know, there have been times when you can predict how a judge is going to rule on the basis of what president appointed that particular judge.
[36:23.590 --> 36:36.190] [ALEXURBELS]: But on the other hand, you know, there are plenty of times where you would expect a judge to rule one way, but because of the life tenure and the fact that the judge is not beholden to any political party has ruled entirely against.
[36:36.390 --> 36:38.030] [EVILCORLEY]: We're not living in those times, Alex.
[36:38.390 --> 36:39.310] [EVILCORLEY]: Those times are gone.
[36:39.690 --> 36:40.190] [ALEXURBELS]: That's right.
[36:40.190 --> 36:41.850] [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, that's the difference now.
[36:42.030 --> 36:49.530] [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, you can point back to history and show how many judges have defined the political party by which they were appointed.
[36:49.850 --> 36:54.190] [ALEXURBELS]: But now times certainly are different.
[36:54.210 --> 36:59.350] [ALEXURBELS]: And I don't know exactly what it is that's different about them.
[37:00.230 --> 37:10.410] [ALEXURBELS]: I do think a lot of this has to deal with the feeling of the zeitgeist or the spirit of the people that we have that emanates from social media these days.
[37:10.650 --> 37:18.910] [EVILCORLEY]: It is social media because that's the place you go to to hear people say what you believe and to have it emphasized over and over and over again.
[37:18.910 --> 37:39.570] [EVILCORLEY]: There was a really good documentary on Vice this weekend about people in Russia and how they continue to follow Vladimir Putin despite people dying, all the soldiers that are dying, despite all the evidence that Russia is doing horrible things, despite all the evidence that Ukraine is not a Nazi state.
[37:39.570 --> 37:44.730] [EVILCORLEY]: It doesn't matter as long as they keep hearing it from their trusted sources.
[37:44.990 --> 37:49.810] [EVILCORLEY]: And in their particular case, it's their it's their leader, but it's also their versions of social media.
[37:50.150 --> 37:51.670] [EVILCORLEY]: The facts don't matter.
[37:51.950 --> 37:58.790] [EVILCORLEY]: You can you can show them all kinds of evidence and they'll say, well, that's fake or that was that's not real.
[37:59.770 --> 38:01.510] [EVILCORLEY]: That that means something else.
[38:01.810 --> 38:09.390] [EVILCORLEY]: Very, very similar to what we have experienced in this country when trying to convince people about efficacy of vaccines.
[38:09.570 --> 38:18.670] [EVILCORLEY]: Or the fact that elections weren't stolen or any number of other things, because they can always go back to their social media outlets and say, see, all these people agree with me.
[38:19.170 --> 38:20.510] [EVILCORLEY]: Therefore, you're wrong.
[38:20.670 --> 38:21.170] [EVILCORLEY]: You're lying.
[38:21.430 --> 38:26.890] [EVILCORLEY]: And despite the fact that, you know, gravity has been proven, I'm going to say that it's wrong.
[38:27.310 --> 38:36.390] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, social media is really at the root of a lot of this, but you don't need social media for people to live in mass hypnosis.
[38:37.170 --> 38:39.110] [EVILCORLEY]: It just helps an awful lot.
[38:41.390 --> 38:43.670] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, I, I, I tend to agree.
[38:43.790 --> 38:58.430] [ALEXURBELS]: I, I, I think it's hard to exactly pinpoint, you know, about, you know, what it is in social media that, that just infects every single aspect of political life and discourse these days.
[38:58.430 --> 39:07.610] [ALEXURBELS]: But, you know, it, it certainly allows people to be whipped up into a frenzy, you know, just like we were when the opinion was leaked.
[39:07.610 --> 39:11.870] [ALEXURBELS]: And I, and I think we should go back to discuss that for a moment or two as well.
[39:11.870 --> 39:15.630] [ALEXURBELS]: Because if you think back to, when was it, was it two months ago?
[39:15.930 --> 39:21.490] [ALEXURBELS]: I think it was just about two months ago when, when the opinion was leaked, you know, supposedly leaked.
[39:21.490 --> 39:25.290] [ALEXURBELS]: I think it was obviously, it was, it was deliberately put out there.
[39:25.430 --> 39:36.790] [ALEXURBELS]: And looking back at it now, I would not be surprised if, if more of the, if it was an official leak, if this was something that was actually sanctioned by the court.
[39:36.790 --> 39:56.810] [ALEXURBELS]: Because if you think about what had happened last week, which, you know, this was just this massive, fundamental constitutional right being taken away from women, women being now forced to, to carry, potentially to term the, the, the, the fetus of a rapist,
[39:57.050 --> 40:04.030] [ALEXURBELS]: something that's the product of incest, dangerous types of situations that, that may affect the health and welfare of the mother.
[40:04.030 --> 40:09.830] [ALEXURBELS]: Or all of these, these things, it's frankly, it's just, it's intolerable in so many ways.
[40:12.190 --> 40:29.350] [ALEXURBELS]: And because we have had this, this time period to adjust ourselves, our mentality to, to the reality of the situation that we are in right now, I think we, what, what had happened here is we got ourselves worked up into a frenzy two months ago.
[40:29.350 --> 40:34.070] [ALEXURBELS]: There were protests back then, we got worked up about it, but we knew it was happening.
[40:34.290 --> 40:48.470] [ALEXURBELS]: It wasn't as if this fundamental right was just yanked out from under us without any notice, because I think if it was yanked out from under us without any notice last week, I think there would have been much more widespread protest.
[40:48.470 --> 40:52.130] [ALEXURBELS]: I think that the protests would have been violent.
[40:52.130 --> 40:56.970] [ALEXURBELS]: I think they would have erupted in, you know, counter-protests.
[40:57.170 --> 41:05.290] [ALEXURBELS]: I think it would have erupted in, you know, potentially, you know, a massive amount of people being injured and potentially buildings being burned.
[41:05.470 --> 41:07.750] [ALEXURBELS]: So, I'm curious to what you guys did.
[41:07.830 --> 41:08.670] [ALEXURBELS]: Wait, Kyle, what about you?
[41:08.970 --> 41:10.050] [KYLEDROSDK]: What about a backlash?
[41:11.970 --> 41:12.950] [ALEXURBELS]: In what sense?
[41:13.510 --> 41:16.430] [KYLEDROSDK]: Something that isn't as immediate as two months ago.
[41:17.230 --> 41:18.590] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, yeah.
[41:18.870 --> 41:20.970] [KYLEDROSDK]: I mean, I think, you know...
[41:20.970 --> 41:23.750] [KYLEDROSDK]: On both faith in the court and this issue.
[41:24.370 --> 41:25.490] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, yeah.
[41:25.810 --> 41:37.970] [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, look, I think that the release of this disarmed us in a sense, because it allowed us to get the rage out over a certain period of time.
[41:37.970 --> 41:41.510] [ALEXURBELS]: Now, when it hit us, we're not all that shocked by it.
[41:41.590 --> 41:43.870] [ALEXURBELS]: And I think that is dangerous, too.
[41:43.870 --> 41:59.870] [ALEXURBELS]: I'm reminded of the, you know, the words of, you know, the great kind of poet, union organizer, folk singer, Utah Phillips, who, you know, would often talk about fundamental rights and rights to organize and things like that.
[41:59.930 --> 42:04.570] [ALEXURBELS]: And he said, you know, you can tell how fundamental a right is.
[42:04.570 --> 42:11.310] [ALEXURBELS]: So I'll butcher his words a little bit, by having the right existing under it, and then you wait for somebody to try to take it away from you.
[42:11.630 --> 42:16.610] [ALEXURBELS]: And the degree to which you resist is the degree to which you are free.
[42:18.390 --> 42:31.990] [ALEXURBELS]: I think that's just such an important concept to think about here, because I don't think that the degree to which we have been resisting has equaled the degree to which we were free over the last 50 years.
[42:31.990 --> 42:43.790] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I think, you know, we've been somewhat culled into believing that our voices don't matter, that our actions don't matter, that, you know, it's just going to happen anyway.
[42:43.790 --> 42:44.550] [EVILCORLEY]: What's the point?
[42:44.990 --> 42:53.330] [EVILCORLEY]: That's, you know, when I encourage people to get out into the streets, when this was initially leaked a couple of months ago, got condemned from the left and the right.
[42:53.630 --> 42:55.270] [EVILCORLEY]: Left saying, we tried that, it didn't work.
[42:55.410 --> 42:56.850] [EVILCORLEY]: Right saying, you're wasting your time.
[42:57.010 --> 42:58.170] [EVILCORLEY]: You can't stop this.
[42:58.170 --> 43:09.850] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, this is unhealthy, because, believe me, when you get out there, and when you make yourself known, and when you don't relent, things do change.
[43:10.370 --> 43:12.230] [EVILCORLEY]: That's how the Vietnam War was stopped.
[43:12.450 --> 43:13.510] [EVILCORLEY]: Let's not forget that.
[43:14.030 --> 43:18.210] [EVILCORLEY]: And throughout the planet, that's how regimes topple.
[43:18.390 --> 43:20.110] [EVILCORLEY]: That's how policies change.
[43:21.050 --> 43:30.230] [EVILCORLEY]: And while voting is super important, and we all better turn out and vote, as you can see, that is something that is being attacked.
[43:30.510 --> 43:33.550] [EVILCORLEY]: That's something that could very well be manipulated.
[43:34.150 --> 43:40.070] [EVILCORLEY]: And it's also something that a lot of us lose faith in and don't show up for.
[43:40.370 --> 43:44.030] [EVILCORLEY]: So it's important while you're feeling the anger to express that anger.
[43:44.030 --> 43:48.230] [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, don't hold back.
[43:48.670 --> 43:54.450] [EVILCORLEY]: It's super important to, you know, to express your feelings when you're feeling them.
[43:54.670 --> 44:07.970] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, we had a situation out here on Long Island last week where a library, Smithtown Public Library, announced that they were removing all pride posters and books from the children's section of their library.
[44:08.150 --> 44:08.870] [EVILCORLEY]: Just like that.
[44:08.870 --> 44:19.630] [EVILCORLEY]: And this was the result of a bunch of right-wing people being elected to the board in the wake of the critical race theory hysteria that swept the nation last November.
[44:20.170 --> 44:23.250] [EVILCORLEY]: A lot of these ugly people got put into power.
[44:23.250 --> 44:34.170] [EVILCORLEY]: And this is one of the things that they did, taking away gay rights celebrations, rainbows, anything relating to pride not appropriate for children.
[44:34.170 --> 44:39.390] [EVILCORLEY]: And the reaction that got inside of a few hours was simply phenomenal.
[44:39.770 --> 44:40.930] [EVILCORLEY]: It got to the governor.
[44:40.990 --> 44:42.570] [EVILCORLEY]: It got around the world.
[44:42.930 --> 44:51.110] [EVILCORLEY]: And inside of a day, they were announcing an emergency meeting, a meeting that actually took place on Zoom and very quickly hit the 1,000 user maximum.
[44:51.850 --> 44:53.290] [EVILCORLEY]: They reversed that policy.
[44:53.430 --> 44:57.270] [EVILCORLEY]: They reversed that policy in a hurry because they realized the fury they had unleashed.
[44:58.050 --> 45:00.350] [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, I'm all for being civil.
[45:00.530 --> 45:01.970] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm all for being civilized.
[45:02.430 --> 45:05.310] [EVILCORLEY]: But you also have to show your fury.
[45:05.810 --> 45:12.650] [EVILCORLEY]: And you have to make people who are changing your life afraid sometimes if they're overstepping.
[45:13.050 --> 45:13.610] [EVILCORLEY]: All right?
[45:13.830 --> 45:24.170] [EVILCORLEY]: If people's lives are being destroyed because of the actions of a few people, those people need to feel as if their lives might be destroyed, too, because of what they have done.
[45:24.770 --> 45:26.130] [EVILCORLEY]: It's called consequences.
[45:26.490 --> 45:28.090] [EVILCORLEY]: And no judge is above that.
[45:29.310 --> 45:33.930] [EVILCORLEY]: So I just hope that we don't feel that our voices don't matter.
[45:34.050 --> 45:34.410] [EVILCORLEY]: They do.
[45:34.650 --> 45:36.230] [EVILCORLEY]: Let's not second-guess each other.
[45:36.610 --> 45:40.150] [EVILCORLEY]: Let's figure out how to fight this, how to win.
[45:40.570 --> 45:45.190] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, there's all kinds of legal ways, which I'm sure you know about, Alex.
[45:45.350 --> 45:46.350] [EVILCORLEY]: It can be codified.
[45:46.970 --> 45:51.170] [EVILCORLEY]: Of course, to do that, you need stronger democratic support federally.
[45:51.830 --> 45:54.070] [EVILCORLEY]: You can also codify it state by state.
[45:54.150 --> 45:57.350] [EVILCORLEY]: Of course, that's going to result in a whole patchwork of rules and regulations.
[45:57.970 --> 46:02.290] [EVILCORLEY]: But the Supreme Court is not the final word, despite what people may think.
[46:02.610 --> 46:06.690] [EVILCORLEY]: There are certainly ways to get around bad decisions.
[46:08.070 --> 46:17.390] [ALEXURBELS]: And another way I think that we should mention here, too, is that a lot of this is because of the way in which Roe v.
[46:17.470 --> 46:18.630] [ALEXURBELS]: Wade was decided.
[46:18.850 --> 46:20.430] [ALEXURBELS]: It's local, right?
[46:20.610 --> 46:27.070] [ALEXURBELS]: So the decision about whether to make abortion legal or illegal goes back to the states.
[46:27.070 --> 46:35.390] [ALEXURBELS]: And if you're in a state that has elected to make abortion illegal, the buck doesn't necessarily stop there, right?
[46:35.450 --> 46:39.610] [ALEXURBELS]: Because the law is one thing, but then the enforcement of the law is another thing entirely.
[46:39.810 --> 46:41.590] [ALEXURBELS]: And what are the practicalities of that enforcement?
[46:41.770 --> 46:52.430] [ALEXURBELS]: As you mentioned earlier, Emmanuel, you may be able to make it difficult to enforce the law by distorting the signal-to-noise ratio of the data that, let's say, law enforcement would use.
[46:52.430 --> 47:03.290] [ALEXURBELS]: But another way, and this is a way that I think it really shows that this is now a local issue, is to perhaps contact your local district attorney.
[47:03.450 --> 47:08.870] [ALEXURBELS]: Because there have been numerous district attorneys in states where abortion will be legal.
[47:09.110 --> 47:12.330] [ALEXURBELS]: I'm sorry, it's states in which abortion will be illegal.
[47:12.630 --> 47:17.090] [ALEXURBELS]: And these district attorneys have vowed not to prosecute abortion cases.
[47:17.870 --> 47:22.830] [ALEXURBELS]: And that's using their discretion in a really powerful way to affect justice.
[47:23.010 --> 47:25.490] [ALEXURBELS]: It doesn't change the law, it doesn't change Roe v.
[47:25.570 --> 47:29.430] [ALEXURBELS]: Wade, but it's a local decision to not enforce an unjust law.
[47:29.570 --> 47:30.310] [ALEXURBELS]: That's really powerful.
[47:30.590 --> 47:39.070] [EVILCORLEY]: Meanwhile, I'm hearing in Texas they're going to be enforcing a 50-year-old anti-sodomy law, a law that hasn't been in existence in 50 years.
[47:39.610 --> 47:43.610] [EVILCORLEY]: So for every good move, there are more bad moves, I think.
[47:43.730 --> 47:48.130] [EVILCORLEY]: And we can't expect this to simply work itself out.
[47:48.310 --> 47:49.570] [EVILCORLEY]: That's definitely not going to happen.
[47:49.930 --> 47:52.570] [EVILCORLEY]: Here's a story about a hack and grip targeting...
[47:52.570 --> 47:55.010] [EVILCORLEY]: This is from the Washington Times, so take it with a grain of salt.
[47:55.870 --> 48:02.210] [EVILCORLEY]: A hack and grip targeting pro-life supporters in states with anti-abortion laws in the aftermath of the Supreme Court decision.
[48:03.710 --> 48:12.350] [EVILCORLEY]: Siege Sec claimed it victimized Arkansas and Kentucky and took government employees' personally identifiable information.
[48:12.650 --> 48:14.770] [EVILCORLEY]: The attacks will continue, in all caps.
[48:14.890 --> 48:20.450] [EVILCORLEY]: Our main targets are any pro-life entities, including government servers of the states with anti-abortion laws.
[48:20.950 --> 48:22.090] [EVILCORLEY]: Keep protesting.
[48:22.270 --> 48:23.230] [EVILCORLEY]: Keep yourself safe.
[48:23.370 --> 48:24.090] [EVILCORLEY]: F the government.
[48:24.930 --> 48:32.510] [EVILCORLEY]: The group said it is leaking files totaling about 7 to 8 gigabytes from government servers belonging to Arkansas and Kentucky that contain employees' information.
[48:33.790 --> 48:41.810] [EVILCORLEY]: Screenshots were published containing personnel info, property data, and a link to a zip file containing the alleged government data.
[48:42.430 --> 48:44.630] [EVILCORLEY]: Like many, we are also pro-choice.
[48:44.890 --> 48:48.610] [EVILCORLEY]: One shouldn't be denied access to abortion, the group said on Telegram.
[48:50.650 --> 48:58.010] [EVILCORLEY]: As added pressure to the U.S. government, we have leaked many internal documents and files retrieved from Kentucky's and Arkansas' government server.
[48:58.010 --> 49:00.190] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, you know, I understand the sentiment.
[49:00.650 --> 49:02.530] [EVILCORLEY]: It's kind of ignorant, though, because the U.S. government is not...
[49:04.930 --> 49:08.350] [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, I suppose the judicial branch of the U.S. government technically is at fault here.
[49:13.030 --> 49:16.330] [EVILCORLEY]: But certainly the real problems will be in the states.
[49:17.670 --> 49:19.470] [EVILCORLEY]: And, yeah, you know, there will be attacks.
[49:19.670 --> 49:21.610] [EVILCORLEY]: There will be ways of fighting back.
[49:21.710 --> 49:23.570] [EVILCORLEY]: There will be ways of showing your displeasure.
[49:23.570 --> 49:24.570] [EVILCORLEY]: And it's not going to be pretty.
[49:24.770 --> 49:26.050] [EVILCORLEY]: And it's not going to be polite.
[49:27.510 --> 49:28.930] [EVILCORLEY]: And that's how it works.
[49:29.550 --> 49:29.890] [EVILCORLEY]: That's how...
[49:29.890 --> 49:31.330] [EVILCORLEY]: So, you know, be prepared for that.
[49:31.450 --> 49:34.570] [EVILCORLEY]: Be prepared for all sorts of nasty attacks.
[49:34.790 --> 49:38.590] [EVILCORLEY]: But what I want to also see is some thoughtful construction.
[49:38.990 --> 49:48.410] [EVILCORLEY]: Like, for instance, a well-thought-out series of webpages or Onion pages where people can simply input their information.
[49:48.410 --> 49:50.770] [EVILCORLEY]: Say you're in Louisiana or something.
[49:51.210 --> 49:53.410] [EVILCORLEY]: And it goes through a series of questions.
[49:54.350 --> 49:56.250] [EVILCORLEY]: How far along are you?
[49:56.870 --> 49:58.270] [EVILCORLEY]: Where is your location?
[49:58.730 --> 49:59.810] [EVILCORLEY]: What is your income?
[49:59.990 --> 50:00.590] [EVILCORLEY]: Et cetera, et cetera.
[50:01.050 --> 50:04.690] [EVILCORLEY]: And then, just like, you know, you're booking a flight or something, you get options.
[50:04.770 --> 50:11.270] [EVILCORLEY]: You get options that are made as easy as possible and as anonymous as possible.
[50:11.270 --> 50:19.550] [EVILCORLEY]: This is something the tech community can put together and do it in a way where people's privacy is protected, where people aren't victimized further.
[50:20.390 --> 50:22.510] [EVILCORLEY]: We are out of time.
[50:22.510 --> 50:27.150] [EVILCORLEY]: But we're going to be back on Overtime at the top of the hour, 8 o'clock.
[50:27.570 --> 50:30.590] [EVILCORLEY]: Visit our YouTube page, which is Channel2600.
[50:31.050 --> 50:37.590] [EVILCORLEY]: And you can also go to the link, which is on top of the 2600.com webpage.
[50:38.110 --> 50:40.430] [EVILCORLEY]: Write to us, oth@2600.com.
[50:40.430 --> 50:42.570] [EVILCORLEY]: We'll see you back on WBAI in two weeks.
[50:42.990 --> 50:43.750] [EVILCORLEY]: Good night.
[54:21.450 --> 54:23.870] [EVILCORLEY]: And good evening to everybody on YouTube.
[54:24.230 --> 54:26.310] [EVILCORLEY]: This is Overtime.
[54:27.330 --> 54:35.590] [EVILCORLEY]: We are back after two weeks and after a couple of minutes on the other show.
[54:37.110 --> 54:40.630] [EVILCORLEY]: So, Alex, looks like you made it into Skype-land there.
[54:41.410 --> 54:42.290] [ALEXURBELS]: I did indeed.
[54:42.590 --> 54:43.630] [ALEXURBELS]: Almost unscathed.
[54:43.830 --> 54:44.010] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[54:44.190 --> 54:45.690] [EVILCORLEY]: And Rob and Gila should be returning soon.
[54:46.390 --> 54:47.810] [EVILCORLEY]: Kyle, I believe you're here as well.
[54:47.990 --> 54:48.130] [ALEXURBELS]: Yep.
[54:48.410 --> 54:48.870] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, good.
[54:50.650 --> 54:51.790] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, tough week.
[54:51.990 --> 54:52.750] [EVILCORLEY]: Tough week on many levels.
[54:52.850 --> 54:55.650] [EVILCORLEY]: We didn't even get to talk about the other rulings.
[54:55.730 --> 54:58.490] [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know if I'm really in the mood to talk about that anymore.
[55:00.350 --> 55:03.670] [EVILCORLEY]: But these are some historic times that we are living through.
[55:03.730 --> 55:12.050] [EVILCORLEY]: And I'm convinced that the solutions will come through both our own intelligence, enlightenment and all that.
[55:12.310 --> 55:14.470] [EVILCORLEY]: But a lot of it will come through technology.
[55:14.470 --> 55:15.510] [EVILCORLEY]: I really think that.
[55:15.910 --> 55:22.590] [EVILCORLEY]: And I hope that we can come up with ways to defeat this backwards thinking that we're being confronted with.
[55:24.510 --> 55:26.710] [EVILCORLEY]: And some good old rebellion as well.
[55:28.690 --> 55:31.470] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, I certainly hope that you're right.
[55:31.750 --> 55:42.490] [ALEXURBELS]: And if we were to solely rely on the legal system to right this wrong, it could really take some time.
[55:42.890 --> 55:48.690] [ALEXURBELS]: It could take a very long time to roll back this particular decision.
[55:50.590 --> 56:02.510] [ALEXURBELS]: And now Dobbs, which has replaced Roe, becomes part of the fabric of the history of this country, which I think will be one of its more notable stains.
[56:02.830 --> 56:12.130] [ALEXURBELS]: And there are quite a number of stains already, I think, on the judiciary and its tapestry of human rights here that goes back.
[56:12.130 --> 56:20.670] [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, there are just loads or maybe scores of horrible decisions that have been righted over time.
[56:21.270 --> 56:21.850] [ALEXURBELS]: But it's...
[56:22.470 --> 56:36.110] [ALEXURBELS]: And I think you alluded to this earlier, Emmanuel, but it's always been the case that with the progression of time, the concept of our fundamental rights guaranteed to us by the Constitution has expanded.
[56:36.110 --> 56:37.350] [ALEXURBELS]: It's never contracted.
[56:37.350 --> 56:42.870] [ALEXURBELS]: It's never been the case that the judiciary has gone backwards.
[56:43.990 --> 56:49.210] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, this is what's really scary about the situation we're facing.
[56:49.550 --> 56:50.710] [EVILCORLEY]: It really is.
[56:50.930 --> 56:55.050] [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, Clarence Thomas pretty much indicating the roadmap ahead.
[56:55.230 --> 57:00.050] [EVILCORLEY]: Not necessarily a roadmap that he's going to succeed, but, you know, succeeded at doing.
[57:00.310 --> 57:03.990] [EVILCORLEY]: Because, you know, again, the ruling was 5-4.
[57:04.930 --> 57:14.770] [EVILCORLEY]: There are some really ominous things ahead, but I also think there are some signs of hope that it won't get as crazy as he wants it to get.
[57:14.910 --> 57:17.010] [EVILCORLEY]: But it's still not good enough in my eyes.
[57:17.170 --> 57:22.470] [EVILCORLEY]: We need to reverse these backwards changes that have already occurred.
[57:22.610 --> 57:27.410] [EVILCORLEY]: But he has indicated that, yeah, gay marriage, he wants to get rid of that.
[57:27.810 --> 57:29.430] [EVILCORLEY]: Probably gay rights of any sort.
[57:31.330 --> 57:36.270] [EVILCORLEY]: Probably stopping short of civil rights, reversing that.
[57:36.570 --> 57:38.070] [EVILCORLEY]: Probably for selfish reasons.
[57:38.410 --> 57:41.630] [EVILCORLEY]: Probably not going to reverse interracial marriage.
[57:41.830 --> 57:43.150] [EVILCORLEY]: Again, selfish reasons.
[57:45.130 --> 57:51.110] [EVILCORLEY]: But, you know, if you're going to legally argue against one, it's not too hard to legally argue against the other.
[57:52.230 --> 57:55.450] [EVILCORLEY]: And I'm really surprised that he can't seem to see that.
[57:57.270 --> 58:13.370] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, I mean, we're all talking about the same type of judicial activism or expansionism, whatever you want to call it, that gave these critical fundamental rights that he enjoys to so many people.
[58:14.110 --> 58:33.150] [ALEXURBELS]: And just kicking this back, rolling it out, it seems so short-sighted in so many ways that it's not the kind of decision and the type of character that we have come to expect from the United States Supreme Court.
[58:33.570 --> 58:49.190] [ALEXURBELS]: This is a court to which the entire planet looks to for wisdom, for the concept of judicial economy, meaning that you're only going to decide a case insofar as it needs to be decided.
[58:49.190 --> 59:00.830] [ALEXURBELS]: You're not going to go farther afield and make legal precedent for the sake of making legal precedent, which arguably could be said to have been done in the Dobbs case, because they...
[59:01.350 --> 59:05.670] [ALEXURBELS]: In essence, the judges are not supposed to make a ruling simply because they want to make a ruling.
[59:05.910 --> 59:08.970] [ALEXURBELS]: There has to be a case or controversy before them that requires it.
[59:10.150 --> 59:27.210] [ALEXURBELS]: And I think it takes this concept of the United States Supreme Court as being the banner bearer for freedom and rights and the progression of freedom and rights over time and just turns it entirely on its head.
[59:27.390 --> 59:27.550] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[59:27.990 --> 59:29.510] [EVILCORLEY]: That's certainly not true anymore.
[59:29.730 --> 59:30.970] [EVILCORLEY]: That's certainly not the case.
[59:31.410 --> 59:33.970] [EVILCORLEY]: What do you think about expansion, court expansion?
[59:34.750 --> 59:38.190] [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, there's been a lot of talk about that in recent days, recent years even.
[59:39.390 --> 59:42.970] [EVILCORLEY]: Do you think that's wise or would that wind up...
[59:42.970 --> 59:44.930] [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, the court has expanded before.
[59:45.370 --> 59:47.190] [EVILCORLEY]: It hasn't always just been nine.
[59:47.450 --> 59:49.790] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, it was, I believe, seven to four.
[59:51.330 --> 01:00:02.750] [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, it was, of course, eight under Obama when he was unable to get the ninth justice confirmed or even given the hearing.
[01:00:03.770 --> 01:00:04.290] [ALEXURBELS]: Right.
[01:00:04.490 --> 01:00:04.590] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:00:04.670 --> 01:00:12.490] [ALEXURBELS]: When Merrick Garland was denied his rightful spot, I mean, for God's sakes, I mean, you think about one justice having made the decision.
[01:00:13.650 --> 01:00:15.110] [EVILCORLEY]: That's a stolen justice.
[01:00:15.370 --> 01:00:15.870] [EVILCORLEY]: I mean...
[01:00:15.870 --> 01:00:16.450] [EVILCORLEY]: Absolutely.
[01:00:16.830 --> 01:00:23.930] [EVILCORLEY]: Virtually any five to four vote, I think, is invalid and should be revisited because what they did was not right.
[01:00:23.930 --> 01:00:24.810] [EVILCORLEY]: It was not legal.
[01:00:25.350 --> 01:00:25.830] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:00:26.030 --> 01:00:33.130] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, you know, this notion of expanding the court, I think it's effective potentially as a political tool.
[01:00:33.390 --> 01:00:45.190] [ALEXURBELS]: I don't necessarily like the idea of it as a lawyer or as a means to get what you want legally if you can't get it politically.
[01:00:46.490 --> 01:00:49.630] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, the obvious argument against it is, well, when does it stop, right?
[01:00:49.750 --> 01:00:57.150] [ALEXURBELS]: But I think, you know, from a lawyer's point of view, one of the great benefits of the Supreme Court is that it declares what the law of the land is.
[01:00:58.090 --> 01:01:02.270] [ALEXURBELS]: And unfortunately, that's one of the great detractions of the Supreme Court at the moment.
[01:01:02.410 --> 01:01:06.510] [EVILCORLEY]: But not when it's a politically stacked court, which is what we have right now.
[01:01:06.810 --> 01:01:09.490] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, people are using the language in a weird way.
[01:01:09.630 --> 01:01:10.990] [EVILCORLEY]: They're saying the Democrats want to stack it.
[01:01:11.050 --> 01:01:12.210] [EVILCORLEY]: No, it's already been stacked.
[01:01:12.570 --> 01:01:17.270] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, expanding it is a reaction to the stacking that took place under Trump.
[01:01:17.270 --> 01:01:19.030] [EVILCORLEY]: And that's unprecedented.
[01:01:20.030 --> 01:01:27.670] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, you know, he kept the justices the exact same number, but he definitely, yeah, he stacked the court with his own people.
[01:01:27.870 --> 01:01:44.870] [ALEXURBELS]: And not only did he stack the court with his own people, but unlike filling many posts in the State Department and other critical agencies of the federal government, Trump spent no time, he wasted no time, rather, in appointing judges to the federal judiciary and the federal bench.
[01:01:44.870 --> 01:02:02.230] [ALEXURBELS]: And if you look back at the decision, what was it, a month or two ago, that had struck down the mask mandate on federal aviation, on planes, you know, and anything that crossed the state lines, that was another Trump judge.
[01:02:02.590 --> 01:02:06.490] [ALEXURBELS]: An extraordinarily young Trump judge, I believe.
[01:02:06.710 --> 01:02:08.170] [EVILCORLEY]: Overruled medical experts.
[01:02:08.430 --> 01:02:18.170] [EVILCORLEY]: We got to hear from somebody who had no medical training and virtually no judge training either, basically telling us what was the right thing to do health-wise.
[01:02:18.810 --> 01:02:22.830] [ALEXURBELS]: Oh, I think it's, you know, it's clear that, you know, this judge is certainly legal lightweight.
[01:02:23.790 --> 01:02:27.990] [ALEXURBELS]: I don't believe that the judge had ever tried a case or, you know, maybe...
[01:02:27.990 --> 01:02:41.310] [ALEXURBELS]: I don't even recall if she had taken a deposition, but, you know, the judiciary is really just so important to the functioning of our republic, of our country, to the history of our country, and to where it's going.
[01:02:41.550 --> 01:02:43.130] [ALEXURBELS]: And Trump knew that.
[01:02:43.270 --> 01:02:53.970] [ALEXURBELS]: And that's why we are continuing to feel the sting of his presidency and will continue to feel the sting of his presidency, I dare say, for decades to come, long before...
[01:02:53.970 --> 01:02:54.190] [EVILCORLEY]: Absolutely.
[01:02:54.390 --> 01:02:56.470] [EVILCORLEY]: But let me tell you something that might make you feel a little better.
[01:02:57.790 --> 01:03:04.770] [EVILCORLEY]: The rate at which Biden is appointing federal judges has exceeded that of Trump at the same period of his presidency.
[01:03:05.050 --> 01:03:09.470] [EVILCORLEY]: So, you know, maybe we'll feel a little bit of the counterweight, hopefully soon.
[01:03:09.630 --> 01:03:11.510] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, I certainly hope so.
[01:03:11.770 --> 01:03:12.410] [ALEXURBELS]: I certainly hope so.
[01:03:12.550 --> 01:03:13.870] [ALEXURBELS]: But, I mean, it is...
[01:03:13.870 --> 01:03:18.310] [ALEXURBELS]: These judges, they have to take their cue from their appellate courts.
[01:03:18.530 --> 01:03:24.830] [ALEXURBELS]: So the federal district courts or the trial-level courts, their legal precedents are decided by whatever circuit they exist in.
[01:03:24.970 --> 01:03:27.270] [ALEXURBELS]: Like here in New York, we're in the Second Circuit.
[01:03:27.610 --> 01:03:32.630] [ALEXURBELS]: Actually, I'm in Pennsylvania, so I'm in the Third Circuit at the moment, whereas you guys are in the Second Circuit.
[01:03:32.850 --> 01:03:37.370] [ALEXURBELS]: So we can have differing legal principles.
[01:03:37.370 --> 01:03:38.590] [EVILCORLEY]: You're in Pennsylvania right now?
[01:03:39.210 --> 01:03:39.970] [ALEXURBELS]: I am, yes.
[01:03:39.990 --> 01:03:42.610] [EVILCORLEY]: Can you start asking around about abortion, see what people do?
[01:03:43.270 --> 01:03:43.670] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm just...
[01:03:43.670 --> 01:03:43.830] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:03:44.050 --> 01:03:46.650] [EVILCORLEY]: You're in one of those states, you know, I want to know what the reaction is.
[01:03:46.870 --> 01:03:52.190] [EVILCORLEY]: Just make like, you know, you're asking for a friend or something like that and see if you get followed by a pickup truck.
[01:03:53.070 --> 01:04:04.590] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, judging by the frequency at which you see Trump flags around here and have seen them for many years, it probably wouldn't be the best way to win friends and influence people.
[01:04:04.590 --> 01:04:06.170] [EVILCORLEY]: Don't think that's what you're after out there.
[01:04:07.530 --> 01:04:08.590] [ALEXURBELS]: That's a good point.
[01:04:08.830 --> 01:04:09.210] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:04:09.710 --> 01:04:16.770] [ALEXURBELS]: But to go back to the court stacking thing, I just don't like it from a, I don't know, from an aesthetic standpoint.
[01:04:16.930 --> 01:04:20.890] [ALEXURBELS]: It's just the idea of expanding the court to whatever fits your whim.
[01:04:21.090 --> 01:04:28.710] [ALEXURBELS]: But then it also just makes consensus and disagreement, you know, all that more difficult and probable.
[01:04:28.870 --> 01:04:30.610] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, but look at what we have now.
[01:04:30.610 --> 01:04:34.670] [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, let's not think about what's wrong with doing something in the future.
[01:04:34.810 --> 01:04:38.310] [EVILCORLEY]: Let's think about what is already wrong now and how do we fix that.
[01:04:38.910 --> 01:04:40.170] [EVILCORLEY]: That's how I see it.
[01:04:40.230 --> 01:04:44.710] [EVILCORLEY]: I see it as, you know, a remedy to a problem, not creating a problem.
[01:04:45.170 --> 01:04:45.650] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:04:45.650 --> 01:04:58.630] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, look, if we're arguing about what is and is not a fundamental right under the Constitution, let's go back to the diatribe that I had during the regular show, which was about,
[01:05:01.890 --> 01:05:17.430] [ALEXURBELS]: and why it was a privacy case and all of these other rights that are derived from the First Amendment, the Fourth Amendment, the Fifth Amendment, you know, even the Third Amendment against quartering soldiers, you know, some privacy rights can be derived from that.
[01:05:18.730 --> 01:05:25.250] [ALEXURBELS]: If we want to get away from this and we want to take the issue away from the court, there are two options that we have.
[01:05:25.850 --> 01:05:29.950] [ALEXURBELS]: Number one, we can amend the Constitution to make this a fundamental right.
[01:05:29.950 --> 01:05:31.990] [ALEXURBELS]: It's incredibly difficult to do that.
[01:05:32.450 --> 01:05:39.630] [ALEXURBELS]: It would require a lot of horse trading, political firepower that the Democrats certainly do not have.
[01:05:39.850 --> 01:05:40.570] [EVILCORLEY]: It would require...
[01:05:40.570 --> 01:05:42.550] [EVILCORLEY]: You need, what, two-thirds of the states to agree?
[01:05:43.130 --> 01:05:49.390] [EVILCORLEY]: And that's the problem is, you know, the vast number of states that don't see reason here.
[01:05:49.730 --> 01:05:51.130] [EVILCORLEY]: It's a flawed system.
[01:05:51.210 --> 01:06:00.010] [EVILCORLEY]: It's a really flawed system, which is why you have to think of creative ways to bypass it or to get around it, because otherwise we're stuck forever.
[01:06:00.210 --> 01:06:01.530] [EVILCORLEY]: What do you think about the filibuster?
[01:06:01.690 --> 01:06:04.410] [EVILCORLEY]: Do you think the filibuster should be gotten away with or done away with?
[01:06:05.830 --> 01:06:07.090] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, that's another thing.
[01:06:07.250 --> 01:06:16.410] [ALEXURBELS]: I think it's just so obstructionist and, you know, yet it can be wielded for good purposes and it can be wielded for bad.
[01:06:17.770 --> 01:06:35.090] [ALEXURBELS]: But I tend to think that it's a historical mechanism that has a place in Congress and may continue to have a place in Congress because if we want to do away with it, I feel like at some point in the near future we're going to wish we had it back.
[01:06:35.430 --> 01:06:40.830] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, that's an interesting point because, you know, everybody is predicting that Democrats are going to lose.
[01:06:40.950 --> 01:06:45.070] [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know how, but if anyone can do it, they can.
[01:06:45.970 --> 01:06:55.990] [EVILCORLEY]: But if they do lose in November, and let's say, God forbid, they lose the Senate and the filibuster has been done away with then, what does that mean next year?
[01:06:56.250 --> 01:07:12.870] [EVILCORLEY]: I don't think people are thinking this through because I think the important thing is to win the election first, get a better majority, and then do something that makes it easier for you to actually pass legislation and change laws and make progress.
[01:07:12.990 --> 01:07:24.250] [EVILCORLEY]: But if you do it now, it could become a rallying point for the opposition, but even if it doesn't, there's a good chance of losing the power that you'll hold on to for a few months.
[01:07:24.530 --> 01:07:29.210] [EVILCORLEY]: And then what kind of nightmare are you facing next year when Republicans get anything they want?
[01:07:29.850 --> 01:07:31.950] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, I completely agree.
[01:07:32.530 --> 01:07:35.210] [ALEXURBELS]: I think we can't be short-sighted about this.
[01:07:36.130 --> 01:07:37.930] [ALEXURBELS]: But, you know, I mentioned two options before.
[01:07:38.070 --> 01:07:56.730] [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, the other option is that Congress legislates about this and preempts all state law and does it in a way that specifically is intended to preempt state law with respect to abortion, at which point, you know, this Dobbs case will then be brought back into question,
[01:07:57.070 --> 01:08:14.650] [ALEXURBELS]: perhaps brought back before the court, and it's quite possible then that the Dobbs court in its current composition could then strike down that law and say that it goes against the Constitution, that this is fundamentally something that belongs in the hands of the states.
[01:08:15.270 --> 01:08:37.610] [ALEXURBELS]: And so, you know, then we go back to option one, which is how do we amend the Constitution in a way that would acknowledge this zone of personal privacy, you know, by which all these other absolutely critical rights for our democracy today to flourish,
[01:08:37.910 --> 01:08:53.090] [ALEXURBELS]: things like, you know, our ability to obtain contraception, to educate our children in the way that we want to, to rear our children in the way that we want to, to have children when we want to have them, and to marry whom we want to marry, regardless of their race or their gender.
[01:08:53.590 --> 01:08:56.290] [ALEXURBELS]: All of these things are critical to a functioning democracy.
[01:08:56.290 --> 01:09:08.630] [ALEXURBELS]: It would be easy for us to amend the Constitution in a way that creates those privacy rights in a way that cannot be dismantled by the courts or Congress.
[01:09:10.130 --> 01:09:14.650] [ALEXURBELS]: And it really certainly seems like a bug.
[01:09:14.790 --> 01:09:18.650] [ALEXURBELS]: And I hate the phrase, it's a feature, not a bug.
[01:09:18.650 --> 01:09:26.470] [ALEXURBELS]: But the fact that it is so hard to amend the Constitution right now, it seems like it's a bug.
[01:09:26.570 --> 01:09:28.750] [ALEXURBELS]: It seems like it's just too hard to do it.
[01:09:28.890 --> 01:09:35.170] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, it may not have been a bug when the system was released a few hundred years ago, but it's a bug now.
[01:09:35.490 --> 01:09:38.790] [EVILCORLEY]: And we're in need of a relaunch of one sort or another.
[01:09:39.250 --> 01:09:40.370] [EVILCORLEY]: Rob Gila, welcome back.
[01:09:40.750 --> 01:09:41.330] [EVILCORLEY]: Welcome to Overtime.
[01:09:41.750 --> 01:09:42.330] [EVILCORLEY]: Thank you.
[01:09:42.330 --> 01:09:48.870] [EVILCORLEY]: We're just having a casual conversation here about the decline of our country and what's going to happen next.
[01:09:49.990 --> 01:09:52.350] [EVILCORLEY]: Any thoughts from you guys before we go to the phones?
[01:09:57.890 --> 01:10:12.970] [ROBVINCENT]: Well, we weren't listening to the bit that we missed, unfortunately, but I can kind of just extrapolate, knowing you guys as I do, where the discussion might have gone and that I probably agree.
[01:10:13.730 --> 01:10:14.910] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, thank you for that.
[01:10:15.890 --> 01:10:17.130] [GILADRAZEN]: I agree, also.
[01:10:19.250 --> 01:10:22.630] [GILADRAZEN]: Well, you know, I should probably get used to having my husband speak for me, huh?
[01:10:23.550 --> 01:10:25.170] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, that would make things easier, yes.
[01:10:26.070 --> 01:10:28.150] [GILADRAZEN]: I mean, just, that's where we're heading, right?
[01:10:28.630 --> 01:10:28.830] [GILADRAZEN]: Yeah.
[01:10:31.250 --> 01:10:33.010] [ROBVINCENT]: As if I don't have enough to do around here.
[01:10:33.110 --> 01:10:34.050] [GILADRAZEN]: Well, sorry about that.
[01:10:36.470 --> 01:10:41.870] [EVILCORLEY]: Our phone number, 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK.
[01:10:42.550 --> 01:10:49.730] [EVILCORLEY]: And we're here to take your phone calls, if there's anything you want to say about this or any other topic or anything in particular.
[01:10:50.010 --> 01:10:50.730] [EVILCORLEY]: Hope is coming up.
[01:10:50.810 --> 01:10:52.030] [EVILCORLEY]: We didn't even get a chance to mention that.
[01:10:52.030 --> 01:10:54.110] [EVILCORLEY]: That's coming up in less than a month.
[01:10:54.130 --> 01:10:55.010] [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, my God.
[01:10:55.490 --> 01:10:57.190] [EVILCORLEY]: We really should start organizing that.
[01:10:58.170 --> 01:11:03.410] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, July 22nd through 24th, we have the schedule.
[01:11:03.550 --> 01:11:04.630] [EVILCORLEY]: Schedule is done.
[01:11:04.910 --> 01:11:08.630] [EVILCORLEY]: I don't think the schedule is published yet, but the schedule is set.
[01:11:08.730 --> 01:11:11.650] [EVILCORLEY]: And all of the talks are listed online.
[01:11:11.650 --> 01:11:12.950] [EVILCORLEY]: All of the speakers are listed online.
[01:11:13.090 --> 01:11:17.290] [EVILCORLEY]: We're still collating the workshops and the performances and things like that.
[01:11:17.430 --> 01:11:19.650] [EVILCORLEY]: But it's looking to be quite an event.
[01:11:19.850 --> 01:11:22.170] [EVILCORLEY]: July 22nd through 24th, St. John's University.
[01:11:22.890 --> 01:11:25.850] [EVILCORLEY]: Tickets are still available, but not for much longer.
[01:11:27.190 --> 01:11:28.710] [EVILCORLEY]: And it's going to be history.
[01:11:28.790 --> 01:11:34.910] [EVILCORLEY]: And it's taking place the same time as another hacker event called May Contain Hackers over in the Netherlands.
[01:11:35.230 --> 01:11:39.290] [EVILCORLEY]: Last time we did this, where we are having simultaneous events, it was 1997.
[01:11:40.530 --> 01:11:46.290] [EVILCORLEY]: Hackers in Progress, or hacking in progress, was taking place in the Netherlands while we were doing Beyond Hope in New York City.
[01:11:46.950 --> 01:11:48.530] [EVILCORLEY]: So, yeah, history repeats itself.
[01:11:49.310 --> 01:11:50.810] [EVILCORLEY]: We've got that happening.
[01:11:51.110 --> 01:11:53.090] [EVILCORLEY]: We still are in need of volunteers.
[01:11:53.090 --> 01:11:58.010] [EVILCORLEY]: So, by all means, visit the webpage, www.hope.net.
[01:11:58.290 --> 01:12:01.030] [EVILCORLEY]: And there's all kinds of ways you can still get involved.
[01:12:02.270 --> 01:12:05.410] [EVILCORLEY]: Robert, do you mind to understand that there's 2600 meetings coming up this Friday?
[01:12:06.190 --> 01:12:07.250] [ROBVINCENT]: There are indeed.
[01:12:07.630 --> 01:12:11.770] [ROBVINCENT]: Go to 2600.com/meetings for information on your local one.
[01:12:11.770 --> 01:12:26.050] [ROBVINCENT]: Information on our local one will be posted shortly, which takes place at the Citigroup, the formerly known as the Citigroup building on 53rd and Lexington in the Spacious Food Court.
[01:12:26.850 --> 01:12:28.970] [EVILCORLEY]: We just discovered the ringer was not on the phones.
[01:12:29.130 --> 01:12:30.550] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, there it is.
[01:12:30.730 --> 01:12:31.790] [EVILCORLEY]: We just turned it on.
[01:12:31.970 --> 01:12:33.070] [EVILCORLEY]: It must have been ringing the whole time.
[01:12:33.810 --> 01:12:35.450] [EVILCORLEY]: So, we're going to take a phone call.
[01:12:35.730 --> 01:12:36.390] [EVILCORLEY]: Good evening.
[01:12:36.570 --> 01:12:37.990] [EVILCORLEY]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:12:39.050 --> 01:12:40.270] [EVILCORLEY]: Hi, Overture Emmanuel.
[01:12:40.730 --> 01:12:41.490] [EVILCORLEY]: It's Rebel.
[01:12:41.610 --> 01:12:42.670] [EVILCORLEY]: Rebel, did you go to Russia?
[01:12:43.990 --> 01:12:46.270] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I came back last week.
[01:12:46.550 --> 01:12:47.930] [EVILCORLEY]: You weren't on last week.
[01:12:48.010 --> 01:12:48.470] [EVILCORLEY]: No, we weren't.
[01:12:48.490 --> 01:12:49.590] [EVILCORLEY]: But I'm very happy you made it back.
[01:12:50.070 --> 01:12:51.510] [EVILCORLEY]: We advised you not to go.
[01:12:51.630 --> 01:12:52.310] [EVILCORLEY]: You went anyway.
[01:12:52.750 --> 01:12:52.970] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:12:53.410 --> 01:12:53.850] [EVILCORLEY]: Congratulations.
[01:12:54.330 --> 01:12:54.910] [EVILCORLEY]: Tell us what happened.
[01:12:55.770 --> 01:12:57.750] [REBEL_RICH]: It was such a great trip.
[01:12:57.750 --> 01:12:59.890] [REBEL_RICH]: Yes, I really enjoyed myself.
[01:13:00.170 --> 01:13:03.670] [REBEL_RICH]: So, I mean, first I went to Poland because I wanted to see Poland.
[01:13:03.990 --> 01:13:05.230] [REBEL_RICH]: I went to Warsaw, Poland.
[01:13:05.930 --> 01:13:06.730] [REBEL_RICH]: That was...
[01:13:06.730 --> 01:13:07.470] [REBEL_RICH]: I liked Poland.
[01:13:07.850 --> 01:13:09.510] [REBEL_RICH]: Stop saying Poland like that.
[01:13:11.170 --> 01:13:13.090] [REBEL_RICH]: Poland was, you know, a couple of days.
[01:13:13.290 --> 01:13:21.730] [REBEL_RICH]: And then I went to Turkey because my friend recommended me to go to Turkey because, you know, he said he'd been to Istanbul, Turkey, and he said you should go visit it.
[01:13:21.870 --> 01:13:27.010] [REBEL_RICH]: And, you know, I had to go to Turkey anyway because I couldn't fly to Russia from the United States or Europe.
[01:13:27.010 --> 01:13:31.170] [REBEL_RICH]: So, I had to go to Turkey and spent a couple of days in Istanbul, Turkey, which was amazing.
[01:13:31.350 --> 01:13:40.610] [REBEL_RICH]: I got to see, you know, the semi-Islamic style country and, you know, that was interesting.
[01:13:41.830 --> 01:13:44.350] [REBEL_RICH]: Everybody was really nice there, too, Turkey.
[01:13:45.230 --> 01:13:46.650] [REBEL_RICH]: Then I went to Russia.
[01:13:47.810 --> 01:13:50.470] [REBEL_RICH]: Now, Russia wanted me to take a COVID test.
[01:13:50.770 --> 01:13:55.250] [REBEL_RICH]: So, when I got to Turkey at Istanbul Airport, they said, do you have your PCR test?
[01:13:55.350 --> 01:13:56.770] [REBEL_RICH]: I said, no, of course not.
[01:13:57.650 --> 01:14:01.050] [REBEL_RICH]: Well, I mean, well, I mean, I said, where do I take it?
[01:14:01.110 --> 01:14:03.150] [REBEL_RICH]: Because I knew that they kind of wanted it.
[01:14:03.230 --> 01:14:04.730] [REBEL_RICH]: But they said, well, you got to take it.
[01:14:04.830 --> 01:14:06.390] [REBEL_RICH]: And so I took it.
[01:14:06.470 --> 01:14:10.330] [REBEL_RICH]: And they said, well, you got to do it now because the flight's going to leave in a couple of hours.
[01:14:10.330 --> 01:14:27.190] [REBEL_RICH]: But by the time I did it, the flight had left to Russia, so I had to pay $800 extra to go to the middle of Turkey, which is like the capital anchor or something, wait for three hours, and then go to Moscow from that part of Turkey.
[01:14:27.190 --> 01:14:29.950] [EVILCORLEY]: But how did you get to the middle of Turkey?
[01:14:31.110 --> 01:14:43.130] [REBEL_RICH]: I had to fly from Istanbul to, you know, I mean, I said I would have gone to, I don't know, I would have gone to the Middle East if I had to, just to get to Russia.
[01:14:45.250 --> 01:14:47.170] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, when Russia calls, you have to answer.
[01:14:47.910 --> 01:14:52.950] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, so here you are, middle of Turkey, now you're flying to Russia, and you land in Russia.
[01:14:53.990 --> 01:14:54.350] [REBEL_RICH]: Right.
[01:14:54.510 --> 01:15:00.250] [REBEL_RICH]: I mean, it took four hours instead of two hours because, you know, you can't fly, you know, over Ukraine.
[01:15:00.390 --> 01:15:03.150] [REBEL_RICH]: So we had to go west and then back up north and then back east.
[01:15:03.450 --> 01:15:06.790] [REBEL_RICH]: So that was interesting, you know, four hours.
[01:15:06.790 --> 01:15:17.370] [REBEL_RICH]: And then I got there, and, you know, customs was, I mean, I kind of didn't understand English, but I, you know, looked at my passport and visa with a magnifying glass and all, and, you know.
[01:15:18.110 --> 01:15:22.350] [EVILCORLEY]: Did they at any point say, did they at any point say, why are you here?
[01:15:23.570 --> 01:15:25.110] [REBEL_RICH]: No, no questions asked.
[01:15:25.110 --> 01:15:29.390] [REBEL_RICH]: They didn't ask what I was doing or where I was staying or anything.
[01:15:29.390 --> 01:15:34.250] [REBEL_RICH]: I handed them the paper, the visa, and that's, you know, that's it.
[01:15:34.250 --> 01:15:38.810] [REBEL_RICH]: And, you know, I had to fill out the, you know, the customs form you get here when you come to the United States?
[01:15:39.070 --> 01:15:39.330] [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, yes.
[01:15:39.830 --> 01:15:41.450] [REBEL_RICH]: Yeah, they give you out in Russia, too.
[01:15:41.550 --> 01:15:44.710] [REBEL_RICH]: Or when you come to Russia, too, I had to fill that out and give it to somebody else.
[01:15:46.190 --> 01:15:51.610] [REBEL_RICH]: And then I was in Russia, took a taxi to Moscow, from the airport to Moscow, there's a hotel.
[01:15:52.930 --> 01:15:57.330] [REBEL_RICH]: And the hotel was, you know, near the center of Moscow, which was very interesting.
[01:15:57.550 --> 01:16:00.590] [EVILCORLEY]: It wasn't that huge hotel, was it?
[01:16:01.550 --> 01:16:04.630] [REBEL_RICH]: No, I stayed at the Abyss Hotel, one of the cheaper ones.
[01:16:06.270 --> 01:16:08.570] [REBEL_RICH]: Because everything had to be done in cash and, you know.
[01:16:09.990 --> 01:16:10.490] [EVILCORLEY]: That's right.
[01:16:10.510 --> 01:16:11.950] [EVILCORLEY]: You couldn't use a credit card over there, could you?
[01:16:12.510 --> 01:16:12.830] [REBEL_RICH]: Right.
[01:16:13.010 --> 01:16:14.630] [REBEL_RICH]: I had to get cash.
[01:16:14.750 --> 01:16:21.350] [REBEL_RICH]: I got cash in advance and, you know, I actually was able to get cash in Turkey, but I didn't need to because I had enough.
[01:16:21.350 --> 01:16:24.190] [REBEL_RICH]: But everything went very smoothly.
[01:16:24.330 --> 01:16:26.010] [REBEL_RICH]: Everybody at the hotel was nice.
[01:16:26.350 --> 01:16:30.530] [REBEL_RICH]: You know, I went to go do some activities.
[01:16:30.830 --> 01:16:32.490] [REBEL_RICH]: I went to Red Square.
[01:16:32.650 --> 01:16:33.870] [REBEL_RICH]: Everybody was just so helpful.
[01:16:34.110 --> 01:16:35.350] [REBEL_RICH]: I went on, you know, the metro.
[01:16:35.570 --> 01:16:42.090] [REBEL_RICH]: The people literally take time out to help you and, you know, guide you on what train to take.
[01:16:42.190 --> 01:16:45.230] [REBEL_RICH]: And, you know, like to go over here and to go with you.
[01:16:45.230 --> 01:16:47.850] [REBEL_RICH]: And, you know, then I went to Red Square.
[01:16:48.270 --> 01:16:48.990] [REBEL_RICH]: Did they know?
[01:16:49.410 --> 01:16:52.210] [EVILCORLEY]: Rebel, did they know you were American when they were being so nice and helpful?
[01:16:53.670 --> 01:16:53.990] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:16:54.550 --> 01:16:54.910] [EVILCORLEY]: Interesting.
[01:16:55.250 --> 01:16:55.810] [REBEL_RICH]: I mean, I...
[01:16:55.810 --> 01:16:56.010] [REBEL_RICH]: Okay.
[01:16:56.270 --> 01:16:58.030] [REBEL_RICH]: Yeah, I mean, I went to Red Square.
[01:16:58.150 --> 01:17:00.010] [REBEL_RICH]: I was looking for a Soviet-style museum.
[01:17:00.190 --> 01:17:02.630] [REBEL_RICH]: I wanted to get a museum of, like, what it was, you know.
[01:17:03.070 --> 01:17:04.570] [REBEL_RICH]: But I couldn't really find one.
[01:17:04.650 --> 01:17:05.770] [REBEL_RICH]: But I did find...
[01:17:05.770 --> 01:17:10.530] [REBEL_RICH]: I went to the gum mall, you know, this place called GUM.
[01:17:10.810 --> 01:17:14.470] [REBEL_RICH]: It's, like, stands for state departments or whatever people, I'm sure.
[01:17:14.470 --> 01:17:16.650] [ALEXURBELS]: Yes, the GUM, GUM.
[01:17:17.190 --> 01:17:18.270] [REBEL_RICH]: You know about this, Alex?
[01:17:19.750 --> 01:17:20.910] [ALEXURBELS]: Oh, yes, of course.
[01:17:21.170 --> 01:17:21.330] [ALEXURBELS]: Okay.
[01:17:22.630 --> 01:17:24.950] [REBEL_RICH]: Yeah, it was so boring.
[01:17:25.150 --> 01:17:29.430] [REBEL_RICH]: There were all these, like, upscale stores and it's not even air-conditioned.
[01:17:29.570 --> 01:17:31.890] [REBEL_RICH]: I'm walking around the place, it's not air-conditioned.
[01:17:31.890 --> 01:17:32.450] [REBEL_RICH]: It's Moscow.
[01:17:32.450 --> 01:17:33.970] [REBEL_RICH]: You don't need air-conditioning in Moscow.
[01:17:35.330 --> 01:17:39.330] [REBEL_RICH]: It was built in the 1800s or something and it's no air-conditioning.
[01:17:39.450 --> 01:17:42.350] [REBEL_RICH]: It's, like, upscale stores that I'm not going to get anything at.
[01:17:42.350 --> 01:17:45.810] [REBEL_RICH]: I'm not going to shop at Gucci or anything, a place like that.
[01:17:45.910 --> 01:17:48.090] [REBEL_RICH]: So I just, you know, left.
[01:17:48.330 --> 01:17:54.190] [REBEL_RICH]: And there's all these upscale, like, restaurants and, you know, and Moscow, mind you, it was virtually crowded.
[01:17:54.610 --> 01:17:55.430] [REBEL_RICH]: People were...
[01:17:55.430 --> 01:17:56.730] [REBEL_RICH]: There were a lot of people in...
[01:17:56.730 --> 01:18:01.650] [REBEL_RICH]: I mean, people actually asked me to take a picture of them in Red Square by the, like, the Kremlin.
[01:18:02.030 --> 01:18:02.950] [REBEL_RICH]: That'll happen, yes.
[01:18:03.150 --> 01:18:03.690] [REBEL_RICH]: A random person.
[01:18:04.530 --> 01:18:04.950] [REBEL_RICH]: That...
[01:18:04.950 --> 01:18:06.970] [REBEL_RICH]: I mean, that was interesting.
[01:18:09.010 --> 01:18:10.850] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I'm glad you made it over there.
[01:18:10.990 --> 01:18:16.690] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm glad you had a good time and were somewhat of a good diplomat for our part of the world.
[01:18:17.690 --> 01:18:18.330] [REBEL_RICH]: That's right.
[01:18:18.490 --> 01:18:21.150] [REBEL_RICH]: I mean, people were just so friendly and healthy.
[01:18:21.310 --> 01:18:25.310] [REBEL_RICH]: I was looking for this place and I got the wrong address.
[01:18:25.470 --> 01:18:45.290] [REBEL_RICH]: I went to the wrong address and this lady literally took time to help me translate and call the people and ask them where they are and things like that and she literally took the time to, you know, because she spoke English and, you know, she tried to help me with the maps and all that and,
[01:18:45.290 --> 01:18:55.710] [REBEL_RICH]: you know, where to go and she translated for me and that's the thing that, you know, that's what the people were like and, you know, and with that, the laundromat, the people were helpful.
[01:18:56.130 --> 01:19:08.670] [REBEL_RICH]: The guy that was doing his laundry, too, he helped me with the machine that, you know, You know, it's a self-service thing, and, you know, you need a special card, and, you know, we actually went to dinner together at, you know, while our laundry was being done.
[01:19:08.850 --> 01:19:09.150] [REBEL_RICH]: Wow.
[01:19:09.330 --> 01:19:11.470] [REBEL_RICH]: That's, you know, that's...
[01:19:11.470 --> 01:19:14.010] [EVILCORLEY]: You do have some of the most interesting encounters in laundromats.
[01:19:14.070 --> 01:19:14.910] [EVILCORLEY]: I found that to be true.
[01:19:17.050 --> 01:19:17.410] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:19:18.870 --> 01:19:19.570] [EVILCORLEY]: So anything else?
[01:19:19.570 --> 01:19:20.510] [EVILCORLEY]: How long were you there for?
[01:19:22.030 --> 01:19:22.770] [EVILCORLEY]: For a week.
[01:19:23.010 --> 01:19:23.210] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:19:23.690 --> 01:19:25.270] [EVILCORLEY]: And did you go anywhere besides Moscow?
[01:19:26.730 --> 01:19:29.890] [REBEL_RICH]: No, I would have liked to go to St. Petersburg, but, you know, with the money.
[01:19:30.570 --> 01:19:36.750] [REBEL_RICH]: And I was just, you know, in Moscow, and, I don't know, maybe next year.
[01:19:36.750 --> 01:19:39.910] [EVILCORLEY]: Did you notice anything related to the war at all?
[01:19:41.550 --> 01:19:42.410] [REBEL_RICH]: No, I did not.
[01:19:42.630 --> 01:19:58.350] [REBEL_RICH]: And it's funny, because, you know, it's like, everybody was just, I don't know, I'm happy, but, like, as if nothing is going on, it's like, you know how, like, fear, if there's, like, a war or something going on, people are in that, you know, kind of mood that,
[01:19:58.410 --> 01:19:59.790] [REBEL_RICH]: you know, there's something wrong.
[01:19:59.790 --> 01:20:05.190] [REBEL_RICH]: The country or whatever, isn't like, the people are not, it's not like that over there.
[01:20:05.330 --> 01:20:07.510] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, that's because the war isn't in their country.
[01:20:07.510 --> 01:20:11.830] [EVILCORLEY]: The war is in the neighboring country, so they can probably be pretty calm over there.
[01:20:13.290 --> 01:20:13.730] [REBEL_RICH]: Right.
[01:20:13.830 --> 01:20:22.310] [REBEL_RICH]: But, I mean, I saw no protests or no, you know, no official people stopped me and questioned me or anything like that or, you know.
[01:20:23.170 --> 01:20:25.510] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I mean, I'm not surprised you didn't see any protest.
[01:20:25.510 --> 01:20:29.570] [EVILCORLEY]: If you had seen a protest, then you would have seen those official people pretty quickly.
[01:20:31.770 --> 01:20:32.130] Right.
[01:20:32.130 --> 01:20:42.750] [REBEL_RICH]: But, I mean, I saw a lot of people in uniforms that, you know, looked like, I don't know what they were, whether they were federal or local or, like, official people.
[01:20:42.750 --> 01:20:44.450] [EVILCORLEY]: A lot of people wear uniforms over there.
[01:20:44.610 --> 01:20:46.170] [EVILCORLEY]: I did notice that quite a right.
[01:20:46.270 --> 01:20:46.870] [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, go ahead, Alex.
[01:20:48.330 --> 01:20:50.030] [ALEXURBELS]: Rebel, quick question for you.
[01:20:50.410 --> 01:20:58.610] [ALEXURBELS]: I'm curious as, about whether your credit or debit card had worked over in Russia.
[01:20:59.410 --> 01:21:01.490] [REBEL_RICH]: You know, I tried it and it did not.
[01:21:02.230 --> 01:21:07.170] [REBEL_RICH]: I only tried it at the airport at, like, buying a hamburger or something, and it did not.
[01:21:08.630 --> 01:21:12.170] [ALEXURBELS]: So, how did you, how did you obtain currency?
[01:21:12.830 --> 01:21:14.330] [ALEXURBELS]: Did you, did you have cash with you?
[01:21:14.390 --> 01:21:15.270] [REBEL_RICH]: I had a good currency in advance.
[01:21:15.570 --> 01:21:20.930] [REBEL_RICH]: I, I, before I left, I got the Soviet, the Soviet, no, the Russian ruble before I left.
[01:21:21.990 --> 01:21:22.430] [ALEXURBELS]: Wow.
[01:21:22.650 --> 01:21:22.830] [ALEXURBELS]: Okay.
[01:21:22.970 --> 01:21:23.110] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:21:23.190 --> 01:21:24.510] [ALEXURBELS]: So, that, that was smart of you.
[01:21:24.630 --> 01:21:24.710] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:21:24.770 --> 01:21:31.890] [ALEXURBELS]: Because, because of the, the sanctions regime that's in place, on account of Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine, and U.S. credit and debit cards are not supposed to work in Russia any longer
[01:21:36.870 --> 01:21:41.470] [ALEXURBELS]: And, uh, it seems like you've, uh, confirmed that in some, in some small measure.
[01:21:42.890 --> 01:21:43.310] [REBEL_RICH]: Right.
[01:21:43.430 --> 01:21:46.650] [REBEL_RICH]: I mean, I don't know, I don't know why they would, uh, you know, ban U.S. credit cards anyway.
[01:21:47.510 --> 01:21:49.450] [REBEL_RICH]: Why, what the point would be to do that?
[01:21:49.610 --> 01:21:50.610] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I think the U.S. credit cards are the ones that opted not to work anymore in Russia.
[01:21:54.170 --> 01:21:57.110] [EVILCORLEY]: But, now, Rebel, um, tell us about the phones.
[01:21:57.390 --> 01:21:58.490] [EVILCORLEY]: I know that's why you went.
[01:21:59.650 --> 01:22:00.490] [REBEL_RICH]: Uh, the phone?
[01:22:00.670 --> 01:22:00.950] [REBEL_RICH]: Oh, yeah.
[01:22:01.110 --> 01:22:03.630] [REBEL_RICH]: I, there was a payphone in the, uh, gum wall.
[01:22:03.830 --> 01:22:04.630] [REBEL_RICH]: I, you know, I picked it up.
[01:22:04.730 --> 01:22:07.910] [REBEL_RICH]: I didn't know how to, you know, dial the app or, or anything like that.
[01:22:07.910 --> 01:22:15.190] [REBEL_RICH]: But I, uh, um, um, I didn't really play with phones much because I had my own, my cell phone with me.
[01:22:15.650 --> 01:22:22.790] [REBEL_RICH]: But, um, but, um, but I did make a cup telephone, which, uh, I, I, my friend kind of had, actually.
[01:22:22.950 --> 01:22:24.330] [EVILCORLEY]: That's what you're going to bring to help, right?
[01:22:24.410 --> 01:22:26.670] [EVILCORLEY]: You're going to bring that cup telephone to help it, you told us.
[01:22:27.550 --> 01:22:33.670] [REBEL_RICH]: Yeah, the, the one, you know, the, the one, the cups are from Poland and the strings from Turkey and, you know, it was assembled in Russia.
[01:22:34.450 --> 01:22:38.130] [EVILCORLEY]: I don't think anyone's going to notice that, but, uh, yeah, we'll have you go out in the parking lot.
[01:22:38.430 --> 01:22:40.090] [REBEL_RICH]: Well, it says, I could, it says, meet in Russia.
[01:22:40.330 --> 01:22:42.930] [EVILCORLEY]: A mile away from the conference and we'll, we'll, we'll chat that way.
[01:22:44.250 --> 01:22:47.430] [REBEL_RICH]: And when I came back to the United States, I went to U.S. customs.
[01:22:47.870 --> 01:22:49.150] [REBEL_RICH]: They, nobody at U.S. customs, they didn't ask me anything where I was or, you know.
[01:22:53.350 --> 01:22:55.230] [EVILCORLEY]: They always ask where you've been.
[01:22:55.390 --> 01:22:56.750] [EVILCORLEY]: They didn't ask you where you were?
[01:22:57.490 --> 01:22:59.110] [EVILCORLEY]: No, they didn't ask anything.
[01:23:00.630 --> 01:23:02.690] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm beginning to wonder if you actually went anywhere.
[01:23:03.690 --> 01:23:05.230] [EVILCORLEY]: Things just went too smoothly.
[01:23:06.390 --> 01:23:08.250] [REBEL_RICH]: Yeah, I mean, it's like, it was surprising.
[01:23:08.430 --> 01:23:10.250] [REBEL_RICH]: The guy was actually, he looked like he was kind of lazy.
[01:23:10.430 --> 01:23:13.430] [REBEL_RICH]: He was just like calling people, like, come on, like, come on.
[01:23:13.650 --> 01:23:15.110] [REBEL_RICH]: A lazy customs worker?
[01:23:15.170 --> 01:23:16.590] [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, now I know you're making it up.
[01:23:18.710 --> 01:23:21.370] [REBEL_RICH]: I know, it's quite surprising, you know, I, you know.
[01:23:23.310 --> 01:23:27.190] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, Rebel, you know, I, I gotta give you credit for, uh, for doing it anyway.
[01:23:27.410 --> 01:23:29.070] [EVILCORLEY]: And I'm glad you made it out okay.
[01:23:29.770 --> 01:23:30.570] [EVILCORLEY]: It was dangerous.
[01:23:30.730 --> 01:23:31.550] [EVILCORLEY]: Please don't do that again.
[01:23:31.550 --> 01:23:36.350] [EVILCORLEY]: Um, and I, I don't think any of our listeners really would be advised to do that either.
[01:23:36.730 --> 01:23:39.610] [EVILCORLEY]: Um, but I think you, you learned quite a, quite a few things.
[01:23:39.730 --> 01:23:39.890] [EVILCORLEY]: Alex?
[01:23:40.910 --> 01:23:47.250] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, I just wanted to read to you, Rebel, the, uh, you know, what, what the, the State Department had, uh, written.
[01:23:47.750 --> 01:23:50.630] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I know, I know, I, yeah, about the not going, yeah.
[01:23:50.810 --> 01:23:52.210] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, read it, read it for us, Alex.
[01:23:52.350 --> 01:23:52.910] [EVILCORLEY]: I'd like to hear it.
[01:23:53.090 --> 01:23:53.790] [ALEXURBELS]: Okay, yes.
[01:23:54.170 --> 01:23:55.590] [EVILCORLEY]: We wrote this flight before I left.
[01:23:56.710 --> 01:23:57.590] [ALEXURBELS]: Okay, yes.
[01:23:58.030 --> 01:23:58.690] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, that's right.
[01:23:58.810 --> 01:24:01.530] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, it says, do not travel, excuse me, do not travel.
[01:24:01.550 --> 01:24:09.130] [ALEXURBELS]: We will travel to Russia due to the unprovoked and unjustified invasion of Ukraine by Russia military forces, the potential for harassment against U.S. citizens by Russian government security officials, the singling out of U.S. citizens in Russia by Russian government security officials, including for detention, the arbitrary enforcement of local law, limited flights into and out of Russia.
[01:24:19.410 --> 01:24:21.530] [ALEXURBELS]: The embassy's limited ability to assist U.S. citizens in Russia, COVID-19-related restrictions, and terrorism.
[01:24:26.450 --> 01:24:30.390] [ALEXURBELS]: U.S. citizens residing or traveling in Russia should depart Russia immediately.
[01:24:31.430 --> 01:24:31.990] Wow.
[01:24:33.170 --> 01:24:37.610] [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, I sincerely hope you feel guilty for going, Rebel.
[01:24:38.170 --> 01:24:50.290] [KYLEDROSDK]: And genuinely, you know, people that know you here, we were like, you know, wondering how you were and somewhat concerned just as acquaintances.
[01:24:52.170 --> 01:24:54.150] [KYLEDROSDK]: So, you know, thanks for that.
[01:24:54.310 --> 01:24:55.230] [EVILCORLEY]: Why should he feel guilty?
[01:24:57.130 --> 01:25:00.530] [KYLEDROSDK]: Going and supporting a regime that's doing what it's doing right now?
[01:25:00.670 --> 01:25:01.130] [KYLEDROSDK]: I don't know.
[01:25:01.270 --> 01:25:04.350] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, by that logic, me going to North Korea was me supporting North Korea.
[01:25:04.510 --> 01:25:09.910] [EVILCORLEY]: I don't think that necessarily by visiting a place, by being curious, you're supporting them.
[01:25:10.870 --> 01:25:13.310] [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, you know, very minimally anyway.
[01:25:13.490 --> 01:25:19.410] [EVILCORLEY]: But I'm just more concerned with actual safety, you know, and hostility.
[01:25:19.510 --> 01:25:23.510] [EVILCORLEY]: I think, you know, I'm learning something about what it's like over there.
[01:25:23.510 --> 01:25:25.230] [EVILCORLEY]: It's not quite as hostile as I thought.
[01:25:25.370 --> 01:25:26.230] [EVILCORLEY]: Still don't want to go over there.
[01:25:26.950 --> 01:25:28.550] [EVILCORLEY]: But it's a personal decision.
[01:25:30.430 --> 01:25:35.990] [REBEL_RICH]: Right, and we're importing things from that country that we don't, you know...
[01:25:40.120 --> 01:25:40.780] [EVILCORLEY]: Like what?
[01:25:41.540 --> 01:25:43.820] [REBEL_RICH]: You know, we're still importing cup telephones.
[01:25:44.480 --> 01:25:45.280] All right.
[01:25:46.120 --> 01:25:47.100] [EVILCORLEY]: Rebel, welcome back.
[01:25:47.300 --> 01:25:49.400] [EVILCORLEY]: Good hearing from you, and please stay in touch.
[01:25:49.400 --> 01:25:51.620] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I'll be at the 2600 meeting this Friday.
[01:25:51.900 --> 01:25:53.080] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, fair warning to everybody.
[01:25:53.080 --> 01:25:54.740] [EVILCORLEY]: Rebel will be at the meeting this Friday.
[01:25:54.980 --> 01:25:57.740] [EVILCORLEY]: City Corp, City Group Building, New York City.
[01:25:59.420 --> 01:26:00.680] [EVILCORLEY]: Thanks for calling.
[01:26:01.260 --> 01:26:05.180] [EVILCORLEY]: And our phone number is 802-321-4225.
[01:26:05.300 --> 01:26:05.900] [EVILCORLEY]: Good to hear from him.
[01:26:06.020 --> 01:26:07.640] [EVILCORLEY]: I was genuinely worried.
[01:26:08.480 --> 01:26:08.880] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:26:09.080 --> 01:26:13.940] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, and look, you know, I take Kyle's point to heart as well.
[01:26:14.000 --> 01:26:16.580] [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, it's a tricky thing to visit.
[01:26:16.580 --> 01:26:25.920] [ALEXURBELS]: But, you know, also relative to what Europe is doing with respect to the purchase, the continued purchase of, you know, Russian oil.
[01:26:26.020 --> 01:26:26.600] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I know.
[01:26:27.120 --> 01:26:30.240] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, I guess it would be considered de minimis.
[01:26:30.240 --> 01:26:31.320] [ALEXURBELS]: But, you know...
[01:26:31.320 --> 01:26:36.740] [EVILCORLEY]: I view this as, you know, even though I advise against it, I view it as kind of reporting from a location.
[01:26:37.140 --> 01:26:41.980] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, we don't tell all our reporters to get out of a country just because they're hostile or they did something bad.
[01:26:43.000 --> 01:26:46.880] [EVILCORLEY]: You have to learn something from whatever perspective you can get.
[01:26:47.140 --> 01:26:49.720] [EVILCORLEY]: And, well, again, I'm just glad he's back.
[01:26:49.720 --> 01:26:50.300] [KYLEDROSDK]: I disagree.
[01:26:50.320 --> 01:26:51.700] [KYLEDROSDK]: I don't think that compares at all.
[01:26:53.620 --> 01:26:54.220] [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[01:26:55.000 --> 01:26:56.420] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, let's take the phone call.
[01:26:56.420 --> 01:26:57.260] [EVILCORLEY]: Let's see what our caller says.
[01:26:57.780 --> 01:26:58.240] [EVILCORLEY]: Good evening.
[01:26:58.340 --> 01:26:59.400] [EVILCORLEY]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:27:01.220 --> 01:27:02.280] [SPEAKER_11]: Greetings from Etobicoke.
[01:27:03.040 --> 01:27:03.820] [EVILCORLEY]: From where now?
[01:27:05.420 --> 01:27:05.820] [SPEAKER_11]: Etobicoke.
[01:27:06.000 --> 01:27:06.280] [SPEAKER_11]: It's Kirby.
[01:27:06.880 --> 01:27:07.200] [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, hey.
[01:27:07.240 --> 01:27:07.580] [EVILCORLEY]: How you doing?
[01:27:07.940 --> 01:27:10.520] [EVILCORLEY]: I didn't recognize that place you said.
[01:27:12.160 --> 01:27:13.380] [SPEAKER_11]: That's why I keep saying it.
[01:27:13.560 --> 01:27:13.780] [EVILCORLEY]: Uh-huh.
[01:27:13.900 --> 01:27:14.140] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:27:15.080 --> 01:27:16.240] [EVILCORLEY]: What's new up there?
[01:27:19.080 --> 01:27:22.100] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I wanted to bring that conversation back to the Hope Conference.
[01:27:22.440 --> 01:27:22.820] [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, yeah.
[01:27:22.940 --> 01:27:23.300] [EVILCORLEY]: Good idea.
[01:27:26.040 --> 01:27:29.740] [SPEAKER_11]: So, I've been in conversation with organizers and stuff.
[01:27:29.880 --> 01:27:39.160] [SPEAKER_11]: And it sounds like we have a pretty plum spot for a Hacker Poetry event on Saturday night at some point.
[01:27:39.280 --> 01:27:39.620] [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[01:27:39.860 --> 01:27:40.060] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:27:40.060 --> 01:27:40.720] [EVILCORLEY]: That's good to hear.
[01:27:41.860 --> 01:27:47.480] [SPEAKER_11]: So, it's going to be a showcase slash open mic type scenario.
[01:27:48.180 --> 01:27:58.040] [SPEAKER_11]: So, I just wanted to mention it so that if anybody out there is coming to Hope and they're interested and they have some writing or they have some...
[01:27:58.680 --> 01:27:59.640] [SPEAKER_11]: It could be anything.
[01:27:59.780 --> 01:28:01.120] [SPEAKER_11]: Prose, poetry.
[01:28:01.500 --> 01:28:03.420] [SPEAKER_11]: You know, you want to say something.
[01:28:03.660 --> 01:28:06.720] [SPEAKER_11]: It's going to be quite interesting.
[01:28:06.920 --> 01:28:07.780] [EVILCORLEY]: Hacker Poetry.
[01:28:07.860 --> 01:28:09.000] [SPEAKER_11]: And everybody is welcome.
[01:28:09.000 --> 01:28:11.240] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I'm not really familiar with Hacker Poetry.
[01:28:11.520 --> 01:28:13.020] [EVILCORLEY]: Can you tell us something about it?
[01:28:14.960 --> 01:28:16.400] [SPEAKER_11]: It's poetry by hackers.
[01:28:17.700 --> 01:28:18.060] [SPEAKER_11]: So...
[01:28:18.060 --> 01:28:18.440] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[01:28:18.740 --> 01:28:19.820] [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I don't want to...
[01:28:19.820 --> 01:28:20.140] [SPEAKER_11]: I guess that's simple enough.
[01:28:20.180 --> 01:28:21.060] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't want to say it's...
[01:28:21.060 --> 01:28:21.700] [ROBVINCENT]: Makes sense to me.
[01:28:21.760 --> 01:28:23.820] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't want to say it's any one particular thing.
[01:28:24.180 --> 01:28:24.480] [EVILCORLEY]: Mm-hmm.
[01:28:25.180 --> 01:28:26.300] [EVILCORLEY]: So, there's no rules.
[01:28:26.640 --> 01:28:27.160] [EVILCORLEY]: There's no...
[01:28:27.160 --> 01:28:29.320] [EVILCORLEY]: There's no guidelines to Hacker Poetry.
[01:28:30.740 --> 01:28:32.800] [SPEAKER_11]: No, I think it'll be themed in a certain way.
[01:28:32.800 --> 01:28:42.040] [SPEAKER_11]: I think that there'll be some certain, you know, things that'll kind of be consistent amongst many of the poems.
[01:28:42.240 --> 01:28:52.960] [SPEAKER_11]: And I have some stuff that I'm going to cook up just to kind of inspire and, you know, different genres and stuff.
[01:28:53.120 --> 01:28:54.580] [SPEAKER_11]: And it'll be a lot of fun.
[01:28:54.980 --> 01:28:55.480] [EVILCORLEY]: Alex, go ahead.
[01:28:55.480 --> 01:28:57.900] [SPEAKER_11]: And that facility that it's at, I saw this picture.
[01:28:58.080 --> 01:28:58.220] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:28:58.400 --> 01:29:00.400] [SPEAKER_11]: There's a sports field in front of the building.
[01:29:00.800 --> 01:29:01.420] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, yeah.
[01:29:01.840 --> 01:29:02.220] [EVILCORLEY]: That's...
[01:29:02.220 --> 01:29:02.500] [SPEAKER_11]: It's like a...
[01:29:02.500 --> 01:29:05.520] [EVILCORLEY]: We're not going to be using the sports field because we're just not that fit.
[01:29:05.660 --> 01:29:07.180] [EVILCORLEY]: But it's there.
[01:29:07.320 --> 01:29:08.100] [EVILCORLEY]: It's very scenic.
[01:29:09.540 --> 01:29:11.380] [SPEAKER_11]: No, I know you sit in the window there.
[01:29:11.460 --> 01:29:11.660] [SPEAKER_11]: Mm-hmm.
[01:29:11.660 --> 01:29:12.460] [SPEAKER_11]: And you're like, holy cat.
[01:29:12.660 --> 01:29:13.320] [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, yes.
[01:29:13.320 --> 01:29:14.480] [SPEAKER_11]: It's quite remarkable.
[01:29:15.280 --> 01:29:19.760] [SPEAKER_11]: It's much different than most tech courses I've ever been to.
[01:29:19.860 --> 01:29:23.440] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, that's what we hope is that the feeling will just be very different.
[01:29:23.440 --> 01:29:27.060] [EVILCORLEY]: Sort of a mixture of an indoor-outdoor event.
[01:29:28.040 --> 01:29:28.480] [EVILCORLEY]: And it's...
[01:29:28.480 --> 01:29:34.420] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, what we're doing this time, it's kind of tiny compared to what we could do in the future.
[01:29:34.440 --> 01:29:35.140] [EVILCORLEY]: Let's put it that way.
[01:29:35.780 --> 01:29:37.580] [EVILCORLEY]: We can grow with this.
[01:29:37.920 --> 01:29:38.960] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, we can have...
[01:29:38.960 --> 01:29:41.780] [EVILCORLEY]: We can have 10 times as many people if we wanted to.
[01:29:42.400 --> 01:29:43.540] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not sure we want to.
[01:29:43.920 --> 01:29:50.900] [EVILCORLEY]: But right now, we're just kind of settling into a new location, dealing with the aftermath of COVID, hopefully the aftermath of COVID.
[01:29:51.800 --> 01:29:56.860] [EVILCORLEY]: Of course, we are requiring people to wear masks while inside because numbers are going up.
[01:29:57.000 --> 01:30:00.060] [EVILCORLEY]: And we don't want to be a super spreader like RSA was.
[01:30:00.160 --> 01:30:00.960] [EVILCORLEY]: We heard about that.
[01:30:02.160 --> 01:30:07.440] [EVILCORLEY]: But we expect it to be a really interesting and rather unique event.
[01:30:07.680 --> 01:30:08.640] [EVILCORLEY]: Now, Alex, I think you had something?
[01:30:11.080 --> 01:30:11.480] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:30:11.480 --> 01:30:14.320] [ALEXURBELS]: I'm really curious about this hacker poetry thing.
[01:30:14.420 --> 01:30:18.260] [ALEXURBELS]: I think it's such a neat idea, a unique concept.
[01:30:18.520 --> 01:30:19.780] [ALEXURBELS]: And it would be really fascinating.
[01:30:20.020 --> 01:30:21.840] [ALEXURBELS]: And I wanted to ask you, Kirby, is...
[01:30:23.120 --> 01:30:24.980] [ALEXURBELS]: Well, maybe I shouldn't ask.
[01:30:25.100 --> 01:30:26.560] [ALEXURBELS]: And I'll just, you know, suggest that.
[01:30:26.600 --> 01:30:32.000] [ALEXURBELS]: I think listening to poetry written by hackers would definitely be interesting.
[01:30:32.720 --> 01:30:33.960] [ALEXURBELS]: I'm sure it would be unique.
[01:30:34.760 --> 01:30:42.060] [ALEXURBELS]: I think it would make a really interesting coffee table book, to be honest with you, even if it was bad.
[01:30:44.060 --> 01:30:55.080] [ALEXURBELS]: But also, on the other hand, I would be really interested in just hearing about what poets, hackers have gravitated towards.
[01:30:55.760 --> 01:31:04.040] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, like, do they like Robert Frost, as opposed to, you know, William Carlos Williams?
[01:31:04.360 --> 01:31:04.960] [ALEXURBELS]: Are they...
[01:31:04.960 --> 01:31:10.240] [ALEXURBELS]: Do they love, you know, the framework of the iambic pentameter of the Shakespearean sonnet?
[01:31:10.940 --> 01:31:15.540] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, are they interested in, you know, Irish poetry, some yeats or something?
[01:31:15.740 --> 01:31:20.040] [ALEXURBELS]: It'd be so interesting to hear about, you know, what poets have inspired.
[01:31:20.180 --> 01:31:23.640] [EVILCORLEY]: I think Kurt Cobain is probably closer to where most people would land.
[01:31:23.640 --> 01:31:23.640] What?
[01:31:24.660 --> 01:31:25.060] [ALEXURBELS]: Maybe.
[01:31:25.420 --> 01:31:25.660] [EVILCORLEY]: Rob?
[01:31:26.020 --> 01:31:27.180] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, yes and no.
[01:31:27.280 --> 01:31:27.860] [SPEAKER_11]: Yes and no.
[01:31:27.980 --> 01:31:29.720] [SPEAKER_11]: To be fair, just sorry to cut you off, Rob.
[01:31:30.280 --> 01:31:42.620] [SPEAKER_11]: It's funny that you say that, because I was reading Robert Frost yesterday, because I need to kind of drum up a few things that, like I was saying, kind of just explanatory and just as a...
[01:31:42.620 --> 01:31:45.080] [SPEAKER_11]: I gotta get the ball rolling kind of thing.
[01:31:46.180 --> 01:31:46.800] [SPEAKER_12]: Go ahead, Rob.
[01:31:46.940 --> 01:31:57.600] [SPEAKER_11]: So, Robert Frost is a great example, and it's just these weird little short poems about the smallest little observation about something, and you kind of pull back and you look at your technological life.
[01:31:57.820 --> 01:31:58.980] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it's just...
[01:31:59.540 --> 01:32:15.240] [SPEAKER_11]: What a way to communicate, because I'm not putting... saying this in a bad way, but a lot of people in our community have some, you know, are not the most social people in terms of just being able to communicate with everybody at large.
[01:32:15.840 --> 01:32:20.180] [SPEAKER_11]: And this is also an opportunity for some of those people to communicate in a different way.
[01:32:20.860 --> 01:32:22.140] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, Rob, you have something to say?
[01:32:22.880 --> 01:32:23.520] [ROBVINCENT]: I did.
[01:32:23.780 --> 01:32:30.140] [ROBVINCENT]: First of all, I've heard it said that code is poetry, in which case hackers have been doing poetry since time immemorial.
[01:32:30.140 --> 01:32:38.760] [ROBVINCENT]: But no, I've also, I've always been really blown away by the sheer creativity there is in the hacker community, in all sorts of media.
[01:32:39.040 --> 01:32:43.640] [ROBVINCENT]: And, you know, that's visual art, that's performance, but also poetry.
[01:32:43.960 --> 01:32:48.740] [ROBVINCENT]: And there have been some really special things that have come out of events like this.
[01:32:48.780 --> 01:32:55.380] [ROBVINCENT]: And I'm very excited to see what happens at a hacker poetry event at Hope.
[01:32:55.380 --> 01:33:00.520] [ROBVINCENT]: And I'm, I'm really glad and tickled that this is going to be happening, and I can't wait to see it.
[01:33:02.760 --> 01:33:13.640] [ALEXURBELS]: You know, one other thing to, you know, to add about this to Kirby, I mean, if you think about what poetry is fundamentally, and you mentioned you were reading Robert Frost last night.
[01:33:14.580 --> 01:33:17.140] [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, his stuff is just absolutely incredible.
[01:33:17.260 --> 01:33:34.160] [ALEXURBELS]: You think about where, where we have come from, as a nation, I think it was Robert Frost, who was the poet laureate, who gave the, who read a poem at JFK's inauguration, if I recall correctly.
[01:33:34.720 --> 01:33:42.900] [ALEXURBELS]: But if you think about poetry and what it is, right, and I studied a lot of poetry as an undergrad, because I was an English and philosophy major.
[01:33:44.760 --> 01:34:01.920] [ALEXURBELS]: Poetry is really, and in fact, also, by the way, another small digression, when I was in law school, my legal writing professor, I'd always said he encouraged people to read poems all the time, because understanding poetry and how to write it and how to get the meaning out of it would make you a better lawyer.
[01:34:02.160 --> 01:34:09.100] [ALEXURBELS]: Because poetry is about getting the maximum amount of meaning in the smallest amount of space.
[01:34:10.120 --> 01:34:20.920] [ALEXURBELS]: You're taking this one small sentence, or perhaps one or two or three words, and deriving this maximum amount of semantic and literal meaning from it.
[01:34:21.080 --> 01:34:31.280] [ALEXURBELS]: And in a sense, you could look at poetry almost as like a form of data compression, where we're not talking about, well, we're talking about a specific type of data here, we're talking about meaning.
[01:34:32.300 --> 01:34:37.080] [ALEXURBELS]: So it's, you know, I think there's just so much relevance to the hacker community.
[01:34:39.740 --> 01:34:45.300] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it's, um, one of those things where you just kind of, kind of get it going and see what happens.
[01:34:45.480 --> 01:34:47.620] [SPEAKER_11]: And I don't really see there's any risk.
[01:34:48.080 --> 01:34:54.280] [SPEAKER_11]: If I end up like completely flopping, and I look like a dud, then that's, you know, that's not the end of the world.
[01:34:54.460 --> 01:34:57.340] [SPEAKER_11]: But on the other hand, this could be the start of something.
[01:34:57.340 --> 01:35:16.180] [SPEAKER_11]: And like I said, like a new way to, for people to communicate about things, because when I was younger, and we used to do the open stages, I mean, whatever was on our mind, we would just write something, it would even be just a prose, just a ramble, and just to go somewhere and just to say it in front of people was very powerful.
[01:35:17.600 --> 01:35:18.000] [EVILCORLEY]: Absolutely.
[01:35:18.320 --> 01:35:18.620] [EVILCORLEY]: Absolutely.
[01:35:19.360 --> 01:35:20.880] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I'm looking forward to it.
[01:35:20.940 --> 01:35:27.460] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm looking forward to, um, to kind of tying into this cultural thing that we haven't really done nearly enough of in the hacker world.
[01:35:28.900 --> 01:35:30.020] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sure there's been stuff.
[01:35:30.200 --> 01:35:35.800] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sure people have done all kinds of writing and creative writing and stuff at all kinds of hacker conventions and stuff.
[01:35:36.280 --> 01:35:51.660] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, but this is just, um, it's from what happened was when I was talking about it, I thought about it more from a coffee house kind of point of view, like a little small venue, but it sounds like it's shaping up that it's going to be part of the performances on Saturday night.
[01:35:52.260 --> 01:35:52.680] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:35:53.140 --> 01:35:55.400] [SPEAKER_11]: So, you know, we do have a coffee house.
[01:35:55.520 --> 01:35:59.100] [EVILCORLEY]: We do have a coffee house on site and we're going to be having...
[01:35:59.100 --> 01:36:00.940] [SPEAKER_11]: No, but they didn't want, they didn't want it.
[01:36:01.200 --> 01:36:04.800] [SPEAKER_11]: They wanted to do it in the big room to kind of get the, get the night started.
[01:36:04.960 --> 01:36:05.000] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:36:05.400 --> 01:36:07.520] [EVILCORLEY]: Well then there's, there's that option as well.
[01:36:07.720 --> 01:36:13.020] [EVILCORLEY]: We have multiple venues, so, uh, you know, there's coffee house performances and there's stage performances.
[01:36:13.240 --> 01:36:14.720] [EVILCORLEY]: So I guess you're on the stage.
[01:36:14.740 --> 01:36:27.260] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I think it's just fabulous to, to put it out there and to get it on the big stage Because, you know, even just for somebody who's never done it, stand up and say more than 140 characters out loud.
[01:36:27.540 --> 01:36:28.620] [SPEAKER_11]: It's very powerful.
[01:36:28.620 --> 01:36:30.080] [SPEAKER_11]: Like I said, it really is.
[01:36:31.420 --> 01:36:32.180] [EVILCORLEY]: Very cool.
[01:36:32.820 --> 01:36:35.900] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, Kirby, thank you for calling and for sharing and for participating.
[01:36:35.900 --> 01:36:39.000] [EVILCORLEY]: We look forward to all that in the future.
[01:36:40.200 --> 01:36:43.120] [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, and just... it's called Hacks Poetic.
[01:36:43.580 --> 01:36:44.600] [EVILCORLEY]: Hacks Poetic.
[01:36:44.880 --> 01:36:45.400] [EVILCORLEY]: Nice.
[01:36:46.600 --> 01:36:48.160] [SPEAKER_11]: That's what the show is called.
[01:36:48.840 --> 01:36:49.400] [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[01:36:49.520 --> 01:36:50.440] [SPEAKER_11]: Or the hour or whatever.
[01:36:52.000 --> 01:36:52.800] [SPEAKER_11]: We'll figure it out.
[01:36:52.940 --> 01:36:53.740] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, thanks again.
[01:36:55.160 --> 01:36:57.820] [EVILCORLEY]: And greetings to the land of sanity north of the border.
[01:36:59.320 --> 01:37:02.220] [SPEAKER_11]: Hey, it's not that great up here, but thank you.
[01:37:03.300 --> 01:37:04.360] [SPEAKER_11]: And greetings back.
[01:37:04.700 --> 01:37:05.020] [EVILCORLEY]: Take care.
[01:37:05.900 --> 01:37:06.860] [EVILCORLEY]: That's what people always say.
[01:37:06.960 --> 01:37:09.340] [EVILCORLEY]: They always say that their country, it's not that great.
[01:37:09.480 --> 01:37:15.440] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, if you're in Switzerland and you say something about the trains, how amazing they are, Germany, they say, oh, they're not that great.
[01:37:16.100 --> 01:37:16.700] [EVILCORLEY]: They are.
[01:37:16.800 --> 01:37:18.100] [EVILCORLEY]: Compared to what we have, they are.
[01:37:18.160 --> 01:37:22.480] [EVILCORLEY]: And Canada, right now, boy, you're in Mensa compared to where we are.
[01:37:23.440 --> 01:37:24.920] [EVILCORLEY]: I don't want to think where we are.
[01:37:25.080 --> 01:37:26.160] [EVILCORLEY]: But it's going to get better.
[01:37:27.820 --> 01:37:28.520] [EVILCORLEY]: I think.
[01:37:29.460 --> 01:37:31.120] [EVILCORLEY]: 802-321-4225.
[01:37:31.300 --> 01:37:32.960] [EVILCORLEY]: 802-321-HACK is our phone number.
[01:37:33.060 --> 01:37:38.200] [EVILCORLEY]: Anyone else out there who has anything to share or say or ask, please feel free.
[01:37:38.260 --> 01:37:42.840] [EVILCORLEY]: And, of course, the invitation is extended to anybody here in our virtual rooms.
[01:37:45.880 --> 01:37:47.780] [KYLEDROSDK]: I don't have anything nice to say.
[01:37:47.820 --> 01:37:48.520] [EVILCORLEY]: You have nothing nice to say?
[01:37:48.540 --> 01:37:49.540] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you can say nasty things, too.
[01:37:50.460 --> 01:37:52.000] [EVILCORLEY]: That brings in more calls.
[01:37:54.080 --> 01:37:54.500] [EVILCORLEY]: No?
[01:37:54.680 --> 01:37:54.940] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:37:55.220 --> 01:37:59.640] [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, I don't even think those things I'm thinking of can be said here.
[01:37:59.820 --> 01:38:00.080] [EVILCORLEY]: Uh-huh.
[01:38:01.600 --> 01:38:02.440] [EVILCORLEY]: It's been a rough day.
[01:38:02.520 --> 01:38:02.920] [EVILCORLEY]: We're on YouTube.
[01:38:02.920 --> 01:38:04.000] [EVILCORLEY]: It's been a rough day for a lot of us.
[01:38:05.140 --> 01:38:06.320] [EVILCORLEY]: We're on YouTube, right?
[01:38:06.440 --> 01:38:07.760] [EVILCORLEY]: You verified that now?
[01:38:07.920 --> 01:38:08.000] [EVILCORLEY]: Yes.
[01:38:08.000 --> 01:38:08.340] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, good.
[01:38:08.860 --> 01:38:09.140] [EVILCORLEY]: Yes.
[01:38:09.680 --> 01:38:10.120] [ROBVINCENT]: That's right.
[01:38:10.160 --> 01:38:13.200] [EVILCORLEY]: You weren't here when we began, so we didn't actually verify we were on YouTube.
[01:38:14.120 --> 01:38:15.300] [ROBVINCENT]: I'm saying we're on YouTube.
[01:38:15.300 --> 01:38:18.980] [ROBVINCENT]: We're not on FCC-regulated airwaves right now.
[01:38:19.080 --> 01:38:24.680] [ROBVINCENT]: So, you know, if you really had some feelings you wanted to express and share with the rest of us, Kyle.
[01:38:24.680 --> 01:38:26.360] [EVILCORLEY]: We can say boulder dash.
[01:38:28.640 --> 01:38:30.260] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I can't believe I said it either.
[01:38:31.420 --> 01:38:37.800] [EVILCORLEY]: But, yeah, with the FCC, unless somebody is rebroadcasting us, which, you know, you have blanket permission to do.
[01:38:38.520 --> 01:38:43.300] [EVILCORLEY]: But be careful, because we might just go off and not be able to control what we say.
[01:38:44.200 --> 01:38:58.500] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, we're not getting another call, which I'm kind of relieved at, because I kind of like an early night to get back to, you know, hope organizing and issue putting out and various other things that just fill my world.
[01:38:59.320 --> 01:39:01.280] [EVILCORLEY]: So, any closing remarks from you?
[01:39:01.680 --> 01:39:02.880] [EVILCORLEY]: Damn it, there's a phone call.
[01:39:03.460 --> 01:39:08.360] [EVILCORLEY]: I don't mean that, damn it, to that person, just to the circumstance.
[01:39:08.620 --> 01:39:10.220] [EVILCORLEY]: But, okay, let's do it.
[01:39:11.660 --> 01:39:12.680] [EVILCORLEY]: And we have a phone call.
[01:39:12.900 --> 01:39:13.260] [EVILCORLEY]: Good evening.
[01:39:13.400 --> 01:39:14.460] [EVILCORLEY]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:39:16.660 --> 01:39:18.660] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just had a couple comments.
[01:39:18.940 --> 01:39:19.240] [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead.
[01:39:21.660 --> 01:39:25.580] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, first of all, the guy who went to Russia, that guy's crazy.
[01:39:25.780 --> 01:39:27.180] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I just...
[01:39:27.760 --> 01:39:29.840] [EVILCORLEY]: We don't say that out loud, though.
[01:39:29.840 --> 01:39:31.180] [SPEAKER_03]: He's kidding, but he doesn't sound like he's kidding.
[01:39:31.460 --> 01:39:33.140] [EVILCORLEY]: We don't say that out loud.
[01:39:34.420 --> 01:39:34.880] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:39:37.240 --> 01:39:40.680] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's just asking for trouble, basically.
[01:39:41.600 --> 01:39:42.380] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, but...
[01:39:42.380 --> 01:39:44.400] [EVILCORLEY]: Rebel has been asking for trouble for decades.
[01:39:45.020 --> 01:39:47.060] [EVILCORLEY]: And he sometimes gets it.
[01:39:50.640 --> 01:39:55.780] [SPEAKER_02]: And the other thing is, Alex, I think it was, who was talking about the Supreme Court earlier.
[01:39:57.940 --> 01:39:58.360] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
[01:39:59.060 --> 01:40:04.340] [SPEAKER_02]: I wondered what he thought about, you know, like, term limits for the Supreme Court.
[01:40:06.140 --> 01:40:06.740] [EVILCORLEY]: Good question.
[01:40:06.740 --> 01:40:08.600] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, maybe a 15-year term limit.
[01:40:09.160 --> 01:40:09.960] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, instead of...
[01:40:09.960 --> 01:40:14.480] [EVILCORLEY]: My idea, everybody who's been there 10 years or more, two weeks you got.
[01:40:14.880 --> 01:40:15.720] [EVILCORLEY]: Get your papers.
[01:40:15.940 --> 01:40:16.480] [EVILCORLEY]: You're done.
[01:40:16.560 --> 01:40:17.640] [EVILCORLEY]: We're going to get some new blood in there.
[01:40:17.820 --> 01:40:19.480] [EVILCORLEY]: That's my, you know, idea.
[01:40:19.720 --> 01:40:19.860] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:40:21.120 --> 01:40:21.760] [EVILCORLEY]: But, Alex...
[01:40:21.760 --> 01:40:24.540] [SPEAKER_02]: And that way more people get to be a Supreme Court judge, too.
[01:40:24.900 --> 01:40:26.080] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, we all need a chance.
[01:40:26.080 --> 01:40:27.020] [EVILCORLEY]: We all need the opportunity.
[01:40:27.320 --> 01:40:27.680] [EVILCORLEY]: Come on.
[01:40:27.860 --> 01:40:28.700] [EVILCORLEY]: Let's be fair here.
[01:40:29.220 --> 01:40:31.040] [EVILCORLEY]: Alex, your thoughts on this?
[01:40:32.020 --> 01:40:36.500] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, you know, the caller brings up, I think, a very interesting point.
[01:40:36.500 --> 01:40:41.560] [ALEXURBELS]: And a point with which I actually have some personal experience, believe it or not.
[01:40:42.220 --> 01:40:43.640] [ALEXURBELS]: I think it's...
[01:40:43.640 --> 01:40:49.460] [ALEXURBELS]: I think term limits for Supreme Court justices could be really useful.
[01:40:49.540 --> 01:40:58.520] [ALEXURBELS]: And it wouldn't be the first time that we have had term limits for federal judges, that they haven't been appointed for life.
[01:40:58.520 --> 01:41:06.620] [ALEXURBELS]: Because, in fact, when I graduated from law school, I clerked for the chief judge of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces, which is an independent federal appellate court right below the Supreme Court of the United States.
[01:41:14.740 --> 01:41:21.980] [ALEXURBELS]: And it decided constitutional issues and things like that that would arise from courts martial in the military.
[01:41:22.240 --> 01:41:27.900] [ALEXURBELS]: So we were essentially the Supreme Court of the military, but yet an independent federal court.
[01:41:27.900 --> 01:41:47.540] [ALEXURBELS]: And the judges on that court were federal court judges appointed by the president, but they were known as Article I judges as opposed to Article III judges in that they were appointed only for a term of 10 years, which, you know, after which they would have to leave the bench.
[01:41:47.540 --> 01:41:55.460] [ALEXURBELS]: And during that time period, the five judges on the court would also rotate through the position of chief judge.
[01:41:55.620 --> 01:42:02.120] [ALEXURBELS]: So the chief judge just, you know, wasn't appointed, you know, and there for the duration of his or her life.
[01:42:02.280 --> 01:42:08.460] [ALEXURBELS]: It was a position that each and every judge had at some point during the tenure of their term.
[01:42:09.060 --> 01:42:18.100] [ALEXURBELS]: And I think it I think it would definitely add a an element of more gamesmanship to the to the elections.
[01:42:18.300 --> 01:42:28.200] [ALEXURBELS]: But we already have that there to a great extent, kind of betting on when certain justices will retire or, you know, what what election cycles are more important than others, etc.
[01:42:28.200 --> 01:42:28.560] [ALEXURBELS]: Right.
[01:42:29.060 --> 01:42:29.060] Right.
[01:42:29.520 --> 01:42:32.380] [ALEXURBELS]: But I think it just brings it more to the forefront.
[01:42:32.400 --> 01:42:43.560] [ALEXURBELS]: I think it would also ensure that that some of the lifeblood of the populace itself is reinvested into the Supreme Court more frequently.
[01:42:43.900 --> 01:42:48.000] [ALEXURBELS]: So from my perspective, I think it's a really interesting idea and proposition.
[01:42:48.220 --> 01:42:48.920] [ALEXURBELS]: I'm glad you brought it up.
[01:42:51.100 --> 01:43:07.160] [SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, that court packing thing you were talking about earlier, I mean, I don't the Republicans themselves, to me, they're not playing fair, because all this is all the everything going on right now happened because Mitch McConnell blocked Obama's appoint the justice appointment.
[01:43:07.320 --> 01:43:07.440] [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
[01:43:07.700 --> 01:43:10.500] [SPEAKER_02]: In other words, Obama had got to nominate Merrick Garland.
[01:43:10.680 --> 01:43:18.900] [SPEAKER_02]: We won't be here, you know, so they to me, Democrats, they just they're very weak, you know, very timid.
[01:43:18.920 --> 01:43:20.760] [SPEAKER_02]: They just don't have any backbone to me.
[01:43:21.400 --> 01:43:22.320] [SPEAKER_02]: They just...
[01:43:22.320 --> 01:43:24.020] [SPEAKER_02]: Why do you think that is?
[01:43:24.220 --> 01:43:25.920] [EVILCORLEY]: I've wondered this almost all my life.
[01:43:26.000 --> 01:43:26.960] [EVILCORLEY]: Why are they so timid?
[01:43:28.840 --> 01:43:29.720] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[01:43:29.940 --> 01:43:31.120] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I don't know.
[01:43:31.320 --> 01:43:34.560] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just, you know, it's just not tough enough.
[01:43:34.840 --> 01:43:35.700] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the problem.
[01:43:35.880 --> 01:43:36.680] [SPEAKER_02]: They're not tough enough.
[01:43:37.480 --> 01:43:45.100] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, Mitch McConnell, that filibuster, Mitch McConnell will drop it in a second if he thought he needed to.
[01:43:45.240 --> 01:43:45.800] [SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't care.
[01:43:45.880 --> 01:43:48.340] [SPEAKER_02]: He'll drop it in a second to advance whatever he wants to advance.
[01:43:48.860 --> 01:43:49.620] [EVILCORLEY]: Gila, you have something?
[01:43:50.720 --> 01:43:51.400] [GILADRAZEN]: Go ahead, Gila.
[01:43:51.980 --> 01:44:04.940] [GILADRAZEN]: Yeah, I think ultimately, and maybe I'm being naive, but I think to a certain extent, the Democrats still believe in the institutions and the Republicans just care about their ends.
[01:44:05.660 --> 01:44:14.180] [GILADRAZEN]: And I think the Democrat respect, the Democratic respect for the system as it exists, is hamstringing every single thing they want to get done.
[01:44:14.320 --> 01:44:19.540] [EVILCORLEY]: And that would be great if it resulted in more popular support, but it doesn't seem to work that way.
[01:44:19.940 --> 01:44:20.460] [GILADRAZEN]: Exactly.
[01:44:20.740 --> 01:44:22.680] [GILADRAZEN]: But I think that's part of the issue.
[01:44:22.760 --> 01:44:30.440] [GILADRAZEN]: They still have the belief in the system and the, you know, Aaron Sorkin speech that's going to make everything work.
[01:44:30.440 --> 01:44:32.240] [GILADRAZEN]: Like, this isn't the West Wing anymore.
[01:44:32.540 --> 01:44:33.220] [GILADRAZEN]: Yes, Rob.
[01:44:34.260 --> 01:44:43.560] [ROBVINCENT]: And just to go back to the caller's question, I mean, for me, the entire concept that these judges are appointed for life seems weird.
[01:44:43.560 --> 01:44:47.300] [ROBVINCENT]: Like, they take away your driver's license if you get too old to drive.
[01:44:49.060 --> 01:45:01.900] [ROBVINCENT]: But the whole appointment for life thing, you know, there are arguments to be made for what they were trying to do, which is keep the judges from having to cater to anyone to get reelected or what have you.
[01:45:02.060 --> 01:45:06.200] [ROBVINCENT]: But I think a set length to the terms would be a good idea all around.
[01:45:06.200 --> 01:45:11.300] [ROBVINCENT]: I can't really see in today's world, like, an argument against that.
[01:45:16.100 --> 01:45:22.100] [SPEAKER_02]: And I have one last thing, Emmanuel, and I'm just going to hang up and listen to what your response is on this.
[01:45:22.280 --> 01:45:25.380] [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm wondering why.
[01:45:25.540 --> 01:45:26.420] [SPEAKER_02]: Why does it...
[01:45:26.420 --> 01:45:28.140] [SPEAKER_02]: This has to do with WBAI.
[01:45:28.260 --> 01:45:34.040] [SPEAKER_02]: But my question is, why can't they start charging for commercials like a regular radio station?
[01:45:34.220 --> 01:45:35.060] [SPEAKER_02]: Is there like a...
[01:45:35.060 --> 01:45:38.600] [SPEAKER_02]: Can they not do this because they're, you know, not-for-profit?
[01:45:38.880 --> 01:45:42.880] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, why can't they, you know, get funds other ways?
[01:45:42.880 --> 01:45:47.360] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, they can't do that because of, first of all, the type of license they have.
[01:45:47.500 --> 01:45:48.340] [EVILCORLEY]: It's a non-commercial license.
[01:45:48.460 --> 01:45:50.540] [EVILCORLEY]: But it is a commercial frequency.
[01:45:51.220 --> 01:45:54.740] [EVILCORLEY]: The frequency could be sold to a station that would, in fact, have commercials.
[01:45:54.880 --> 01:46:05.300] [EVILCORLEY]: But the bigger issue, though, is if WBAI were able to have commercials and they decided tomorrow to start having commercials, it would change the entire way the station operated.
[01:46:05.300 --> 01:46:13.860] [EVILCORLEY]: We'd have to be concerned with sponsors and offending sponsors and covering topics that sponsors want us to cover.
[01:46:14.560 --> 01:46:18.620] [EVILCORLEY]: You know, in commercial radio, controversy is not your friend.
[01:46:19.100 --> 01:46:23.260] [EVILCORLEY]: The way commercial radio works is, you know, you have to be like everybody else.
[01:46:23.340 --> 01:46:24.300] [EVILCORLEY]: You can't take chances.
[01:46:24.300 --> 01:46:27.840] [EVILCORLEY]: It seems, you know, it seems counterintuitive.
[01:46:28.240 --> 01:46:30.660] [EVILCORLEY]: But that is, look at every radio station out there.
[01:46:30.880 --> 01:46:32.700] [EVILCORLEY]: How many of them are taking chances?
[01:46:32.720 --> 01:46:34.480] [EVILCORLEY]: How many of them are doing something really different?
[01:46:34.660 --> 01:46:37.420] [EVILCORLEY]: And how many of them sound just like another station you know?
[01:46:37.920 --> 01:46:39.420] [EVILCORLEY]: That's unfortunately the way it is.
[01:46:39.520 --> 01:46:43.680] [EVILCORLEY]: And WBAI is, you know, has many faults and problems.
[01:46:43.760 --> 01:46:51.500] [EVILCORLEY]: But it's a shining jewel as far as just bucking the trends and doing things, you know, differently.
[01:46:52.820 --> 01:46:53.760] [EVILCORLEY]: I wouldn't trade that.
[01:46:53.980 --> 01:47:01.580] [EVILCORLEY]: I do think, though, there is room for underwriting, like NPR stations do, without that affecting the programming.
[01:47:01.580 --> 01:47:03.200] [EVILCORLEY]: I do think that could be a good source of income.
[01:47:03.360 --> 01:47:07.180] [EVILCORLEY]: But I know also Pacifica is substantially against that, at least at the moment.
[01:47:09.760 --> 01:47:10.120] [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[01:47:10.760 --> 01:47:11.460] [EVILCORLEY]: Does that answer your question?
[01:47:11.780 --> 01:47:12.120] [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[01:47:12.200 --> 01:47:13.120] [EVILCORLEY]: Thank you for taking my call.
[01:47:13.320 --> 01:47:13.460] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:47:13.620 --> 01:47:14.300] [EVILCORLEY]: Thank you for calling.
[01:47:14.540 --> 01:47:14.860] [EVILCORLEY]: Take care.
[01:47:16.260 --> 01:47:18.140] [EVILCORLEY]: Now, Alex, I just have a quick question for you.
[01:47:18.140 --> 01:47:21.460] [EVILCORLEY]: You said courts-martial before, and that stuck in my head.
[01:47:21.520 --> 01:47:22.680] [EVILCORLEY]: Is that the right way to say it?
[01:47:24.040 --> 01:47:25.700] [ALEXURBELS]: That's the plural of court-martial.
[01:47:25.740 --> 01:47:26.020] [EVILCORLEY]: Really?
[01:47:26.260 --> 01:47:33.220] [EVILCORLEY]: So if I get court-martialed twice, I can't say, hey, I've got a bunch of court-martials I have to worry about.
[01:47:33.280 --> 01:47:34.540] [EVILCORLEY]: I have to say courts-martial.
[01:47:35.120 --> 01:47:35.680] [ALEXURBELS]: That's right.
[01:47:35.760 --> 01:47:36.080] [ALEXURBELS]: Why?
[01:47:36.680 --> 01:47:38.620] [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, it's like attorneys general.
[01:47:38.980 --> 01:47:40.440] [EVILCORLEY]: That one I made my peace with.
[01:47:40.540 --> 01:47:44.960] [EVILCORLEY]: But I didn't know the plural of court-martial wasn't court-martials.
[01:47:44.960 --> 01:47:59.380] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, I've never looked into the etymology of it, but, you know, I'm sure there's a fascinating story behind it, actually.
[01:47:59.580 --> 01:48:00.600] [EVILCORLEY]: Which you'll tell us in two weeks.
[01:48:01.020 --> 01:48:01.560] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:48:01.940 --> 01:48:03.740] [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, I'm trying to look it up.
[01:48:04.140 --> 01:48:04.880] [ALEXURBELS]: Oh, no.
[01:48:05.040 --> 01:48:05.800] [ALEXURBELS]: There we go.
[01:48:06.040 --> 01:48:06.320] [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:48:07.600 --> 01:48:09.860] [ALEXURBELS]: But, yeah, it is courts-martial.
[01:48:10.040 --> 01:48:14.100] [ALEXURBELS]: And apparently there is an official army document.
[01:48:14.980 --> 01:48:15.840] [ALEXURBELS]: Let's see.
[01:48:18.100 --> 01:48:24.080] [ALEXURBELS]: This might shed some light as to the origin of this.
[01:48:24.800 --> 01:48:27.460] [ALEXURBELS]: But, you know, this is going to take forever.
[01:48:27.700 --> 01:48:28.260] [ALEXURBELS]: I don't know.
[01:48:28.380 --> 01:48:32.460] [ALEXURBELS]: It might take about two weeks, actually, to open this for various reasons.
[01:48:32.680 --> 01:48:32.880] [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:48:32.920 --> 01:48:33.680] [EVILCORLEY]: Well, we have two weeks.
[01:48:33.680 --> 01:48:34.620] [EVILCORLEY]: We're not on next week.
[01:48:35.280 --> 01:48:35.540] [EVILCORLEY]: We'll be back.
[01:48:35.880 --> 01:48:37.000] [EVILCORLEY]: And Gila has something.
[01:48:37.120 --> 01:48:37.440] [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Gila.
[01:48:37.940 --> 01:48:38.220] [GILADRAZEN]: Okay.
[01:48:38.400 --> 01:48:41.920] [GILADRAZEN]: It's because Marshall is what's called a post-positive adjective.
[01:48:42.480 --> 01:48:42.960] [ALEXURBELS]: Okay.
[01:48:43.180 --> 01:48:43.940] [GILADRAZEN]: What the hell does that mean?
[01:48:44.420 --> 01:48:45.400] [GILADRAZEN]: I'm an English major.
[01:48:45.460 --> 01:48:46.140] [GILADRAZEN]: I don't know what that means.
[01:48:47.500 --> 01:48:47.980] [GILADRAZEN]: Okay.
[01:48:48.120 --> 01:48:49.040] [GILADRAZEN]: Reading from Wikipedia.
[01:48:49.640 --> 01:48:51.540] [ALEXURBELS]: It means it's already happened, right?
[01:48:51.780 --> 01:48:57.180] [GILADRAZEN]: A post-positive adjective is an adjective that occurs immediately after the noun or pronoun that it modifies.
[01:48:58.180 --> 01:49:00.980] [GILADRAZEN]: Like, if you say, all matters financial.
[01:49:02.080 --> 01:49:04.600] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, that's another phrase I never got, but...
[01:49:04.600 --> 01:49:05.800] [GILADRAZEN]: It's the same kind of thing.
[01:49:07.240 --> 01:49:11.080] [GILADRAZEN]: So, this is something that works a lot better in other languages.
[01:49:12.080 --> 01:49:13.360] [GILADRAZEN]: Pretty normal in Spanish.
[01:49:14.820 --> 01:49:17.180] [GILADRAZEN]: So, because of the...
[01:49:17.180 --> 01:49:17.260] [GILADRAZEN]: Right.
[01:49:17.420 --> 01:49:19.700] [GILADRAZEN]: So, like, if you say, all creatures, great and small.
[01:49:19.900 --> 01:49:21.320] [GILADRAZEN]: Those are post-positive adjectives.
[01:49:21.980 --> 01:49:22.420] [EVILCORLEY]: Interesting.
[01:49:24.400 --> 01:49:30.420] [GILADRAZEN]: So, it's a noun-adjective agreement sort of situation, and the noun is the issue.
[01:49:31.060 --> 01:49:32.580] [GILADRAZEN]: It's the thing that's happening.
[01:49:33.840 --> 01:49:36.420] [GILADRAZEN]: It's describing the court, not the marshal.
[01:49:36.700 --> 01:49:37.300] [GILADRAZEN]: So, the court...
[01:49:37.300 --> 01:49:38.260] [EVILCORLEY]: Why that phrase?
[01:49:38.380 --> 01:49:39.000] [EVILCORLEY]: Why that phrase?
[01:49:39.080 --> 01:49:41.360] [EVILCORLEY]: Why did they decide to use that particular rule there?
[01:49:44.240 --> 01:49:45.280] [ALEXURBELS]: I think it's...
[01:49:45.280 --> 01:49:46.300] [ALEXURBELS]: It just is...
[01:49:46.300 --> 01:49:48.160] [ALEXURBELS]: It's the better description of it, right?
[01:49:48.160 --> 01:49:55.540] [ALEXURBELS]: So, marshal would be modifying court, and not necessarily part of the actual word.
[01:49:55.620 --> 01:49:56.200] [ALEXURBELS]: It's not one word.
[01:49:56.200 --> 01:50:03.560] [ALEXURBELS]: So, it's a noun-adjective combination, but the adjective is modifying a noun that precedes it in the sentence.
[01:50:03.820 --> 01:50:05.020] [GILADRAZEN]: That is absolutely correct.
[01:50:05.380 --> 01:50:07.180] [GILADRAZEN]: And it's the...
[01:50:07.180 --> 01:50:08.160] [GILADRAZEN]: It's an adjective.
[01:50:08.160 --> 01:50:09.560] [GILADRAZEN]: It's not a noun.
[01:50:09.760 --> 01:50:10.820] [GILADRAZEN]: So, it's not...
[01:50:10.820 --> 01:50:13.300] [GILADRAZEN]: It's describing the court and or the courts.
[01:50:13.320 --> 01:50:16.320] [GILADRAZEN]: It's not an asingular noun.
[01:50:17.460 --> 01:50:17.800] [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:50:18.000 --> 01:50:18.440] [EVILCORLEY]: This is better.
[01:50:18.580 --> 01:50:19.760] [EVILCORLEY]: Let's do this instead of hacking.
[01:50:19.880 --> 01:50:21.220] [EVILCORLEY]: Let's talk about grammar each week.
[01:50:21.640 --> 01:50:23.180] [GILADRAZEN]: How many of us are English majors?
[01:50:23.280 --> 01:50:23.780] [GILADRAZEN]: I'm just curious.
[01:50:23.880 --> 01:50:25.620] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm an English major, but I didn't know that.
[01:50:25.880 --> 01:50:28.580] [GILADRAZEN]: No, I'm saying more than half of us here are English majors.
[01:50:29.000 --> 01:50:29.160] [EVILCORLEY]: That's true.
[01:50:29.160 --> 01:50:30.240] [EVILCORLEY]: I didn't know you were an English major.
[01:50:30.320 --> 01:50:30.480] [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[01:50:30.540 --> 01:50:32.540] [EVILCORLEY]: We have to talk about grammar sometime.
[01:50:35.200 --> 01:50:35.720] [ALEXURBELS]: Very cool.
[01:50:35.740 --> 01:50:37.160] [ALEXURBELS]: Are you talking about your father's mother?
[01:50:38.440 --> 01:50:38.780] [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[01:50:40.040 --> 01:50:42.020] [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not going to try to wrap my head around that.
[01:50:43.220 --> 01:50:43.760] [ALEXURBELS]: Oh, yeah.
[01:50:44.360 --> 01:50:45.080] [ALEXURBELS]: All right, Alex.
[01:50:45.580 --> 01:50:45.920] [EVILCORLEY]: Gila.
[01:50:46.400 --> 01:50:46.760] [EVILCORLEY]: Rob.
[01:50:46.940 --> 01:50:47.300] [EVILCORLEY]: Kyle.
[01:50:47.540 --> 01:50:48.400] [EVILCORLEY]: Good seeing you all.
[01:50:48.860 --> 01:50:52.200] [EVILCORLEY]: And we're going to go back into our shells for another couple of weeks.
[01:50:52.460 --> 01:50:54.480] [EVILCORLEY]: And hopefully it'll be a better world when we come back.
[01:50:55.500 --> 01:50:56.140] [EVILCORLEY]: Write to us.
[01:50:56.240 --> 01:50:58.520] [EVILCORLEY]: oth@2600.com.
[01:51:00.040 --> 01:51:01.220] [EVILCORLEY]: And we'll see you in two weeks.
[01:51:01.340 --> 01:51:01.480] [EVILCORLEY]: Good night.
[01:51:01.480 --> 01:51:01.560] [EVILCORLEY]: Alright.