Off The Hook - 2022-09-28

[00:00.000 --> 00:03.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: 99.5 FM and WBAI.org online.
[00:04.260 --> 00:06.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: Stay tuned for Off The Hook.
[00:06.880 --> 00:09.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: Coming up, it is now 7 p.m.
[00:22.150 --> 00:27.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: Due to the flood in the area you are calling, your call cannot be completed at this time.
[00:27.630 --> 00:28.870]  [SPEAKER_00]: Please try your call later.
[00:29.430 --> 00:30.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: 078-T.
[00:36.660 --> 00:41.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:42.040 --> 00:44.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: I cut myself while shaving.
[00:44.040 --> 00:46.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now I can't make a call.
[00:47.300 --> 00:49.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: We couldn't get much worse
[00:52.570 --> 00:54.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: if I'm for the best, expect the worst.
[00:55.510 --> 00:58.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: I hope that's understood, but make me move.
[02:25.750 --> 02:31.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's those last few seconds I sometimes like to hear, you know, because it just sounds different than the rest of the song.
[02:31.770 --> 02:34.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so extended period of the theme there.
[02:34.490 --> 02:36.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's Off The Hook.
[02:36.830 --> 02:41.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is Emmanuel Goldstein, and over there is Kyle.
[02:41.770 --> 02:41.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: Kyle?
[02:42.230 --> 02:43.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, I'm here.
[02:43.230 --> 02:45.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: And again, you're telling me it's something with your hands, and I don't know.
[02:45.970 --> 02:48.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: I just saw a light blink on one of the channels.
[02:49.010 --> 02:50.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think it's our telephone channel, but forget that.
[02:50.470 --> 02:51.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a huge board.
[02:51.330 --> 02:51.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: Lights blink.
[02:51.750 --> 02:52.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: Don't worry about it.
[02:52.110 --> 02:53.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, all right, all right, all right.
[02:53.550 --> 02:56.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's just acknowledging your announcement here.
[02:56.550 --> 02:57.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for acknowledging it.
[02:57.830 --> 02:58.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: Can we go to Skype-land?
[02:59.810 --> 03:02.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: In Skype-land, I see...
[03:02.130 --> 03:02.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Whoa.
[03:03.790 --> 03:05.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: Is that Alex there?
[03:05.610 --> 03:06.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: It is I.
[03:06.450 --> 03:07.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: Wow.
[03:07.550 --> 03:07.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[03:07.930 --> 03:08.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Welcome to Skype-land.
[03:09.110 --> 03:09.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: Welcome to Off The Hook.
[03:09.970 --> 03:11.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: Welcome to WBAI.
[03:11.850 --> 03:12.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, it's good to be here.
[03:13.570 --> 03:14.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: It is good to be here.
[03:14.970 --> 03:16.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you're the only one in Skype-land tonight.
[03:17.490 --> 03:20.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's going to be a cozy little show.
[03:20.210 --> 03:24.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: And we're going to have overtime at 8 o'clock over on YouTube.
[03:25.050 --> 03:31.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: You can get there by going to youtube.com/Channel2600, all one word, and the number is 2600.
[03:31.910 --> 03:36.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or you can just click on the link on the top of 2600.com webpage.
[03:38.390 --> 03:40.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, lots of things going on.
[03:40.210 --> 03:43.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: I guess let's start with a dramatic announcement.
[03:44.290 --> 03:45.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: We got him.
[03:46.130 --> 03:47.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, folks.
[03:47.150 --> 03:47.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: We got him.
[03:48.750 --> 03:50.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's wait for the cheering to die down.
[03:51.090 --> 03:52.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I'm referring to, right?
[03:52.650 --> 03:53.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, I don't know what we got.
[03:53.650 --> 03:56.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're referring to the Grand Theft Auto hacker.
[03:56.370 --> 04:08.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: The one who, yeah, who stole the source code or caused all kinds of problems in the world of people who want to pretend that they're stealing cars and things like that.
[04:08.890 --> 04:14.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, 17 years old, apparently over in England, Oxford Shire.
[04:15.190 --> 04:15.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[04:15.830 --> 04:20.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: According to a statement made to Eurogamer by...
[04:20.090 --> 04:21.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, they got the right people covering this story.
[04:22.330 --> 04:24.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: Eurogamer was at the hearing.
[04:24.270 --> 04:28.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: The city of London police's cybercrime unit.
[04:28.630 --> 04:37.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: The Oxford Shire boy appeared in a specialist youth court in London on September 24th, pleading guilty to two counts of breaching his bail conditions.
[04:38.450 --> 04:40.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, apparently he was already in trouble.
[04:40.170 --> 04:43.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: And not guilty to two counts of misuse of a computer.
[04:45.130 --> 04:45.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, wait.
[04:45.690 --> 04:50.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: He pleaded guilty to breaching bail, but not guilty to misuse of a computer.
[04:50.790 --> 04:51.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, interesting.
[04:51.650 --> 04:54.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: The teenager has been remanded to a youth detention center.
[04:55.490 --> 04:58.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's a center with an R-E, not an E-R.
[04:58.370 --> 04:59.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, you know they mean business.
[05:00.390 --> 05:06.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: The unnamed teenager is supposedly a member of the hacking group Lapsus, with the dollar sign at the end.
[05:06.790 --> 05:07.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: We talked about this last week.
[05:09.470 --> 05:16.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: And he was reportedly one of seven arrested, as they were accused of hacking companies like Microsoft and Uber.
[05:17.490 --> 05:29.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: In March, according to BBC News, a teenager who was 16 at the time, he was described as someone accused of being a multi-millionaire cyber criminal.
[05:29.310 --> 05:32.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, now the story gets a little bit more interesting.
[05:32.670 --> 05:43.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, he is a multi-million dollar 17-year-old cyber criminal who stole the source code or the release of the latest Grand Theft Auto.
[05:44.190 --> 05:47.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so the Grand Theft Auto 6 leak.
[05:48.050 --> 05:48.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Am I saying it right?
[05:48.830 --> 05:49.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or should I say VI?
[05:50.550 --> 05:53.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because they say VI, but I'm going to say 6, because that's what VI means.
[05:54.090 --> 05:56.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's, I think, a reasonable interpretation.
[05:56.490 --> 05:59.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Unless you're using the editor VI, in which case you say VI.
[05:59.670 --> 06:01.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you think that means 6?
[06:01.150 --> 06:01.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: 6?
[06:02.670 --> 06:03.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: No.
[06:04.450 --> 06:04.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: You sure?
[06:06.270 --> 06:06.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: No.
[06:06.750 --> 06:08.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: Have I been using 6 all these years?
[06:09.770 --> 06:11.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: That would be something.
[06:11.190 --> 06:13.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, wise guy, what does VI mean, then?
[06:14.810 --> 06:17.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: Ah, not so easy, is it?
[06:17.790 --> 06:23.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: I want to say virtual something, but virtual editor would be VE, not VI.
[06:23.830 --> 06:24.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Interface.
[06:24.710 --> 06:27.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: See, folks, we do this without going on the Internet.
[06:27.690 --> 06:27.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: Interpreter.
[06:27.950 --> 06:30.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, if we sound stupid, it's because we're just not checking.
[06:31.150 --> 06:33.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, Google, for every question that we have.
[06:33.930 --> 06:37.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, this is, you're seeing our honest brains here failing.
[06:37.370 --> 06:38.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Virtual interpreter?
[06:38.610 --> 06:40.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: Virtual interpreter, Kyle guesses.
[06:40.410 --> 06:41.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, I'm sure...
[06:41.370 --> 06:41.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's totally wrong.
[06:41.930 --> 06:46.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: I am sure we will generate more mail than ever from people just stumbling over themselves to correct us.
[06:47.030 --> 06:50.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, apparently, the correct answer is visual.
[06:51.090 --> 06:53.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wait, did you look it up, Alex?
[06:53.890 --> 06:54.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I did.
[06:55.170 --> 06:56.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: Did I just spoil the phone?
[06:56.790 --> 06:57.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you spoiled the phone.
[06:57.770 --> 06:58.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: I know, I did.
[06:58.470 --> 07:03.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: You ruined the entire point of the exercise is that we were using our brains and not the Internet.
[07:03.470 --> 07:04.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can't control you.
[07:04.510 --> 07:06.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're already in cyberspace.
[07:06.630 --> 07:08.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're in Skype-land.
[07:08.350 --> 07:09.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can't control what you do.
[07:09.930 --> 07:10.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: I know.
[07:11.130 --> 07:11.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's true.
[07:12.010 --> 07:12.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[07:12.530 --> 07:13.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Apparently, it stands for visual.
[07:13.810 --> 07:14.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: I didn't know.
[07:14.210 --> 07:14.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: I never knew that.
[07:15.510 --> 07:17.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's older than I am.
[07:17.030 --> 07:19.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was released in 1976.
[07:20.050 --> 07:23.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: Can we get back to the crime at hand that we're discussing?
[07:24.010 --> 07:36.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: The Grand Theft Auto 6 leak included 90 videos from the game's test build and showed information such as the two playable protagonists and the Vice City Metro setting.
[07:36.990 --> 07:38.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: Ruin the whole thing.
[07:39.170 --> 07:55.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: Rockstar Games acknowledged the hack and confirmed that the early development footage were all legitimate, claiming that the company suffered a network intrusion in which an unauthorized third-party illegally accessed and downloaded confidential information from our systems.
[07:57.430 --> 08:00.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Elsewhere in gaming, Netflix is building its own gaming studio.
[08:00.430 --> 08:01.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know why that was included in that story.
[08:02.330 --> 08:03.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, okay.
[08:03.630 --> 08:04.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: So they caught the guy.
[08:04.950 --> 08:07.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think they could have made another game out of it.
[08:07.590 --> 08:11.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, the hunt for the guy that hacked Grand Theft Auto.
[08:11.670 --> 08:12.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[08:12.830 --> 08:16.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: But then again, you know, you hear the guy's a multi-million dollar cyber criminal.
[08:16.410 --> 08:18.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: That sort of puts a different taste in your mouth.
[08:18.910 --> 08:29.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I had an impression that it maybe was something that had been a priority for the people that were affected.
[08:29.710 --> 08:33.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, not everyone is just going to be a victim.
[08:33.570 --> 08:34.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I don't know.
[08:34.550 --> 08:53.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then, you know, whatever they turned up was interesting enough to unravel something that was being wielded in a wider way to users and in this trail of evidence, I guess.
[08:54.110 --> 08:55.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: You've got to tell me what you want me to do, Kai.
[08:55.150 --> 08:56.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're making hand signals while you're speaking.
[08:56.370 --> 08:57.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: Can you do the thing where you shuffle a little bit?
[08:57.690 --> 08:58.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because I can't hear...
[08:58.510 --> 08:59.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's not something...
[08:59.670 --> 09:00.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: You sound fine to me.
[09:01.270 --> 09:01.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[09:01.590 --> 09:02.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: So what do you want me to do?
[09:02.410 --> 09:03.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: You want me to turn you up or turn you down?
[09:04.550 --> 09:07.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's at that one threshold where you found that sweet spot.
[09:07.790 --> 09:08.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's...
[09:08.150 --> 09:09.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but you can't go up any higher.
[09:09.690 --> 09:12.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: You see, you put a piece of tape there so I can't push it up any longer.
[09:12.130 --> 09:12.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, not me.
[09:12.970 --> 09:14.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think it's the Skype point.
[09:14.010 --> 09:16.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: If I move the Skype thing, we're all going to sound terrible.
[09:16.270 --> 09:17.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, well, just...
[09:17.210 --> 09:17.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: You sound fine.
[09:18.150 --> 09:19.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Alex, how does Kyle sound to you?
[09:21.110 --> 09:23.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, he sounds, you know, okay.
[09:24.090 --> 09:25.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: No better, no worse than usual.
[09:26.010 --> 09:28.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: As irritated and the fuming as ever.
[09:28.810 --> 09:29.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: What we're used to.
[09:30.230 --> 09:30.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[09:31.390 --> 09:31.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[09:31.750 --> 09:36.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, and, you know, you can just tell me what you want me to do because I don't understand hand signals.
[09:37.250 --> 09:39.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or write it down on a piece of paper and hold it up.
[09:39.990 --> 09:40.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: That would be nice, too.
[09:41.510 --> 09:43.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm getting some exercise in the process.
[09:43.710 --> 09:45.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: I just like to be active here.
[09:45.490 --> 09:45.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[09:45.930 --> 09:51.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's another big story, apart from the Grand Theft Auto debacle.
[09:51.010 --> 09:54.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that involves Edward Snowden.
[09:54.790 --> 09:55.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: Have you heard about this?
[09:56.070 --> 10:01.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: Edward Snowden has been granted citizenship by Putin himself, apparently.
[10:02.650 --> 10:11.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: Russian President Vladimir Putin granted citizenship on Monday to Edward Snowden, the former security consultant who leaked information about top-secret U.S.
[10:12.170 --> 10:17.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: surveillance programs and is still wanted by the United States on espionage charges.
[10:18.290 --> 10:22.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: He was one of 72 foreigners granted citizenship in a decree signed by Putin.
[10:24.030 --> 10:37.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, you know, I've got pretty strong feelings about this because a lot of people are very ignorant about the facts, about the facts involving Snowden in the first place, that he chose to live in Russia and betray his country.
[10:37.690 --> 10:39.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, he did not choose to live in Russia.
[10:39.610 --> 10:45.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: He was stranded in Russia because the United States canceled his passport so he couldn't go anywhere else.
[10:45.430 --> 10:48.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: And he was lucky enough to be able to find a place he could stay.
[10:48.850 --> 10:54.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: And this, you know, it's not ideal that he be a Russian citizen, I suppose.
[10:54.550 --> 10:57.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: And certainly Putin is using this for political advantage.
[10:58.070 --> 11:04.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: But don't say that Snowden is at the root of all this.
[11:04.950 --> 11:10.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: He would like nothing better than to come home and face charges that are fair.
[11:10.650 --> 11:15.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: We know damn well that's not what's going to happen if he does come back to the United States.
[11:15.590 --> 11:18.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, what's happening to Julian Assange?
[11:18.450 --> 11:20.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Totally different story, totally different person.
[11:20.530 --> 11:29.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: But it gives you an idea of the way things would go because the story has just been so overblown, sensationalized.
[11:29.950 --> 11:38.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: And when you think of all the good that we learned, you know, certainly the facts that were brought to bear were not good.
[11:38.610 --> 11:51.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: But the knowledge of those facts, that is something that we deserve to know about the fact that we are being spied upon the fact that there are these cover ups involving everything from the NSA to phone companies.
[11:52.590 --> 11:56.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is something we all need to know about.
[11:56.250 --> 12:06.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: And if you if you listen to his explanation, you see that he's not some some crazy person looking to just reveal everything.
[12:06.430 --> 12:11.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's very thoughtful as far as what is revealed and what is withheld.
[12:11.730 --> 12:20.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: He talks to journalists and and gets them to do the investigating and investigating of of what it is he's talking about.
[12:21.270 --> 12:24.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: And this is somebody we should be celebrating, not punishing.
[12:24.790 --> 12:28.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: So the fact that he is now a Russian citizen.
[12:28.870 --> 12:34.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's good for him because he he has a place now that he can stay in.
[12:35.170 --> 12:36.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's bad for us.
[12:36.530 --> 12:39.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's bad for us because we could be benefiting from his presence.
[12:41.550 --> 12:55.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and I think that it's just as useful, I think, to adversaries and folks to jump to a conclusion about his allegiances, especially given the complex context context we're in now.
[12:56.410 --> 13:21.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, um, as as I don't know, um, if anybody can really say, like, what information we have now, um, and and, uh, how good, you know, our reporting is, is, uh, I don't know, it's, it's, it's not, it seems like it's pretty limited and there, there are a lot of factors at play.
[13:21.450 --> 13:25.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, I don't know if this was ultimately the goal or the plan.
[13:25.970 --> 13:30.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and I think that, uh, I don't know.
[13:30.330 --> 13:48.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: It just, it just seems like jumping to conclusions and being certain about it is, uh, it's a pretty bold, honestly, you know, after all this time that he has been forced and he has been forced to live over there, uh, not be in, in the United States with his,
[13:48.490 --> 13:55.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: uh, you know, the rest of his family and, uh, uh, the places that, you know, he grew up in and the things that I imagine he holds dear.
[13:56.010 --> 13:59.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, if you believe he should be punished, did he not get punished already?
[14:00.090 --> 14:09.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, at what point do we show a little compassion here and, um, and, and, and, and start thinking about how do we make things normal again?
[14:09.510 --> 14:25.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, what Snowden said, um, uh, upon being granted the, uh, citizenship, uh, after years of separation from our parents, my wife and I have no desire to be separated from our sons after two years of waiting and nearly 10 years of exile, a little stability will make a difference for my family.
[14:25.930 --> 14:33.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: I pray for privacy for them and for us all, which is a nice barbed remark there, which I, I really appreciate.
[14:33.790 --> 14:35.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: Alex, I'm, I'm very curious what your thoughts are on this.
[14:35.930 --> 14:44.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I, I not surprisingly have somewhat differing thoughts from your own on, on, on Snowden and this citizenship development.
[14:44.830 --> 14:53.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I don't, I don't canonize Snowden in the same way that I think you do and, and many others in, in the hacker community do.
[14:53.290 --> 15:10.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I understand it's an unpopular position to take on, on such a, uh, a saintly figure in, in many ways, but, you know, I, I'm also somebody that worked in this and had in the intelligence community and had the same clearance that Snowden had.
[15:10.490 --> 15:23.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: I also had TSSCI and, um, I think, you know, there is got to be some measure of respect and control for classified information that belongs to the U.S. government.
[15:23.310 --> 15:45.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, and while I do believe that what Snowden originally and initially disclosed about the massive surveillance network that was targeting the Verizon business network subscribers was on itself prima, it was in and of itself prima facie unconstitutional and therefore could have been the subject of legitimate whistleblowing.
[15:46.150 --> 16:02.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think that also there were valid reasons for Snowden not to go through the ordinary whistleblowing channels that existed at the time in the intelligence community, because the, the historical precedent of whistleblowers in that capacity has, has not been good.
[16:03.170 --> 16:08.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, and, and, and, you know, the outcome probably would not have been favorable to, um, to Snowden.
[16:09.570 --> 16:23.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: However, you know, you, you mentioned that he had put all this information into the hands of journalists and, and curated it and made sure that only certain stories got out, et cetera.
[16:24.050 --> 16:26.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't necessarily think that that's the case.
[16:26.410 --> 16:34.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think what Snowden did after his initial disclosures with the Verizon business network, uh, massive surveillance network was really a smash and grab job.
[16:35.030 --> 16:52.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I've said this many times before in the show that the information that he grabbed, and then it was a massive amount of data that he had stolen from the U.S. intelligence community and put into the hands of journalists had more to do with legitimate targets of U.S. surveillance than anything else.
[16:53.130 --> 17:00.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, there was no need for the targets of U.S. surveillance in the European union and other places to know that we were surveilling them.
[17:00.370 --> 17:01.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Nothing about that was illegal.
[17:01.690 --> 17:03.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: Nothing about it was unconstitutional.
[17:03.450 --> 17:12.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: He may have taken some kind of, he may, uh, he may have had some, some form of ethical objection perhaps to this type of surveillance, but it wasn't illegal.
[17:13.010 --> 17:14.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's par for the course.
[17:14.130 --> 17:19.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's in fact, what every single country that has an active intelligence community would do.
[17:19.950 --> 17:28.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: And so I, I, I don't think Snowden deserves to be canonized and in the same way as many others in our community do.
[17:29.050 --> 17:30.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think he was brave.
[17:30.630 --> 17:32.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think he was a whistleblower for sure.
[17:32.390 --> 17:43.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I also think that, um, by him continuing to stay in Russia, that he, you know, is in a sense taking umbrage under the regime of, of Putin.
[17:43.570 --> 17:49.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: And he may or may not have a choice because, you know, his citizenship was polled, his citizenship was not polled.
[17:49.190 --> 17:50.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: He did not denounce his U.S.
[17:51.070 --> 17:51.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: citizenship.
[17:51.130 --> 17:51.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: He's still a U.S.
[17:52.230 --> 17:52.230]  citizen.
[17:52.530 --> 17:53.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: He can come back.
[17:53.690 --> 17:55.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think his passport may have been suspended.
[17:55.910 --> 18:07.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: And so, you know, I, I see this development with respect to Russian citizenship as, as, you know, maybe giving him and his family some measure of comfort, maybe allowing him perhaps to, to travel.
[18:07.690 --> 18:10.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: Although I doubt that he will step foot out of Russia.
[18:10.970 --> 18:16.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, um, look, I think, uh, I think it's a mixed bag for me with Snowden.
[18:16.110 --> 18:20.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think on the one hand, he has to be applauded because he was brave.
[18:20.630 --> 18:27.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was some of the stuff that he, he, uh, blew the whistle about, I think was a legitimate concern.
[18:28.150 --> 18:36.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I think for the bulk of it and the rest of it, and we don't even know where, uh, a good amount of the information that he stole from the U.S.
[18:36.370 --> 18:43.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: government currently resides, you know, and don't forget, uh, he chose Glenn Greenwald as a repository.
[18:44.130 --> 18:44.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[18:44.290 --> 18:44.290]  Okay.
[18:44.370 --> 18:49.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: But in fairness, Glenn Greenwald was saner back then.
[18:49.030 --> 18:53.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't want to get into personalities here, but, uh, the seeds of insanity were there.
[18:53.810 --> 18:58.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, yeah, but you know, I, I, I don't think it's fair to say people are canonizing him.
[18:58.510 --> 19:01.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: Certainly not us because I don't think we're doing that.
[19:01.450 --> 19:09.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, I, I, I do believe that, um, uh, what he was able to reveal included a lot that affected U.S.
[19:09.850 --> 19:09.850]  citizens.
[19:09.930 --> 19:13.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: The fact that the NSA was, was spying on them.
[19:13.250 --> 19:19.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: It confirmed what we have been publishing and talking about for a very long time, many other people.
[19:19.830 --> 19:20.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[19:20.170 --> 19:27.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: And a lot of this stuff, the reason that, uh, was put forth was the interest, the public interest in these programs.
[19:27.690 --> 19:30.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I blame the lack of transparency.
[19:30.690 --> 19:46.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry, like no matter how important, how secret, how special and, and boutique all these systems and programs are, if you're not communicating, you're communicating to representatives who are lackeys and who are just doing the bare minimum in positions of,
[19:46.270 --> 19:54.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: you know, committees and stuff and, and not communicating effectively to the public about the importance of these things, you're going to, you're going to have people question them.
[19:54.630 --> 20:16.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: And at the time, the context, the multiple wars at effect, the, the, uh, under specious, uh, uh, uh, circumstances, I think, and, and mostly as like post nine 11, uh, uh, attitudes, uh, uh, and, and, uh, uh, conquests, I think with, with unbridled, uh,
[20:17.330 --> 20:31.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: access to resources to transform and, and, and multiply the effects of, of the abilities of these FISA courts and all of the things that we've been talking about, it's not necessarily that it was new what Snowden was saying.
[20:31.490 --> 20:37.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: In other words, it's that it confirmed so much in the public interest from a deep level.
[20:37.090 --> 20:40.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you can tell by how, how he was pursued and so forth.
[20:40.890 --> 20:41.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[20:42.610 --> 20:48.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I don't know what more we can say though, because even in the investigation and the reporting of it, where was the transparency?
[20:49.090 --> 20:56.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like, you know, there were all, yeah, movies and, and a lot of like publicity around it, I think from the community.
[20:56.950 --> 21:14.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that I think was an effect of a lot of the whistleblowers, but it, it has, uh, um, really no bearing, I think on the impact of whistleblowing the concept or surveillance writ large, the concept.
[21:14.310 --> 21:22.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: And a lot of the issues we've talked about, like, think about how much we've been speaking about, um, um, the future of, of how data is used.
[21:22.390 --> 21:32.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I mean, that for us, I think is what, um, may have come off as like, uh, uh, lauding what was confirmed in that stuff.
[21:32.330 --> 21:44.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I mean, once it's happened, whether our adversary, I mean, if, if other people know about it and you double down on being even less transparent about it, it's, it's still out there.
[21:44.050 --> 21:44.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[21:44.510 --> 22:02.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: And how, how, how is the public to be, um, uh, secure or, or have any kind of, uh, confidence in, uh, these programs that their tax dollars are going towards if the, um, they themselves are compromised by such leaks, you know?
[22:02.890 --> 22:08.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, and of course we learned a lot about submission and how to do responsible whistleblowing.
[22:08.210 --> 22:26.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're seeing it even now with social media companies and that in place of oversight in general and a, and a good public communication by politicians who are actually doing a lot of the work investigating and looking at some of these areas of technology and its interface with the populace.
[22:26.190 --> 22:37.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: But I think that there's a lot of nuance here that, that can be really, really, um, damaging to overall unity in the community and the public overall.
[22:38.190 --> 22:38.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[22:38.770 --> 22:42.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: Look, I, Kyle, I don't, I don't totally disagree with that in, in any respect.
[22:43.010 --> 22:54.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think that the, uh, the, the issue here for me is that notwithstanding the fact that there were legitimate objects of, of whistleblowing that he disclosed.
[22:54.850 --> 22:57.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I, and I think that we can certainly agree on that.
[22:58.070 --> 23:09.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we can certainly agree that a lot of what he, uh, what, of what, what he disclosed certainly confirmed what we were always talking about or suspicious about in, in, in, in many ways, but, but it didn't, it didn't end there.
[23:09.750 --> 23:11.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: It wasn't a surgical approach.
[23:11.250 --> 23:17.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: It wasn't some kind of scalpel-like exfiltration of data that confirmed this massive surveillance network.
[23:17.450 --> 23:28.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think what had, had happened, uh, was more akin to a smashing grab job where he grabbed a massive amount of information from the U.S. intelligence community.
[23:28.210 --> 23:33.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: And some of it related to, you know, active and legitimate targets of intelligence collections.
[23:33.910 --> 23:35.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: Some of it put people in danger.
[23:35.510 --> 23:40.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: Some of it could have compromised sources and methods and, and then put others in danger.
[23:40.550 --> 23:49.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: And so there's, there's a lot of, I think, collateral consequences of these Snowden disclosures and leaks that, you know, we still are seeing to this day.
[23:49.490 --> 23:55.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, and my problem is that he didn't curate all of this himself.
[23:55.490 --> 24:00.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: He didn't even, I think, understand what was in all of the data that he took.
[24:00.470 --> 24:14.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: He took it and he put it into the hands of others who then eked it out story by story and, and got as much juice as they possibly could have out of the, this data for the benefit of their media organization.
[24:14.530 --> 24:14.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[24:14.750 --> 24:17.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, but, uh, you know, it's called the free press.
[24:17.290 --> 24:17.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[24:17.650 --> 24:24.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, and Alex, what, what, uh, you described as smash and grab, uh, how could he have possibly done it any differently?
[24:24.470 --> 24:36.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: Would they have given him an office where he could go through all this material and pick out the things that, uh, were in fact, uh, directed at the American people and leave out the stuff that, uh, was legitimate, uh, in intelligence?
[24:36.730 --> 24:37.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[24:37.390 --> 24:49.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you know, that, that is, that is, that is why he enlisted the help of Laura Poitras and Glenn Greenwald, because they were journalists that, uh, he trusted to actually do that part of it.
[24:49.170 --> 24:50.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think for the most part, that's what they did.
[24:50.870 --> 25:05.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I, I, I think it's different in the sense that, you know, he could have ended his exfiltration and theft of information as it related to the massive Verizon, uh, surveillance network that he had disclosed initially.
[25:05.250 --> 25:19.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: That to me, absolutely legitimate object of whistleblowing and should, should be out there in the public interest and because it was prima facie unconstitutional, you know, and then you had, I believe, intelligence officials not come, not being exactly forthright about that program,
[25:19.830 --> 25:21.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: uh, as it turned out.
[25:21.590 --> 25:26.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: And so sure, there, there was certainly a lot of issues there, but he could have stopped there.
[25:26.370 --> 25:27.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wait, why would you stop there?
[25:28.050 --> 25:30.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, do you think that's the only thing they were doing?
[25:30.510 --> 25:35.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, when people are acting, uh, you know, uh, dishonestly, do you say, okay, we caught you.
[25:35.750 --> 25:39.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're not going to investigate anymore because that's the only crime you possibly could have committed.
[25:40.430 --> 25:51.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, he should have, and if he wanted to, he could have done it anonymously, leaked it to the press in an anonymous way that didn't lead back to him without doing an additional smash and grab.
[25:51.070 --> 25:54.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: I believe he was trying to be anonymous in, in, in Hong Kong, was he not?
[25:55.150 --> 26:00.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have no idea what his intention wasn't in Hong Kong, but I know he was handing off data, I believe.
[26:00.610 --> 26:02.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: He certainly wasn't looking for the limelight.
[26:02.790 --> 26:06.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's one thing that I, I, I, I got from following all the stories about it.
[26:06.550 --> 26:08.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: I, I'm not entirely sure about that.
[26:08.890 --> 26:11.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: I, I don't, I wouldn't know if I would entirely agree with that.
[26:11.570 --> 26:14.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think, I think he was looking for a bit of the limelight here.
[26:14.870 --> 26:17.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: He was playing some cloak and dagger and he took a huge amount of data.
[26:18.090 --> 26:19.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: He didn't have to take that,
[26:22.450 --> 26:34.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: you know, was, was embarrassing and damaging to the, to the U.S. intelligence, you know, what he could have done, Alex, is simply dump the whole thing so that the public could see it, you know, like, like our grand theft auto hacker did.
[26:35.090 --> 26:36.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, but he didn't do that.
[26:36.650 --> 26:43.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: He enlisted the help of two trusted journalists who he believed would go through it and, and, um, hold back on the stuff that could endanger lives.
[26:44.150 --> 26:48.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: All the things that Julian Assange is accused of not doing this guy did.
[26:48.810 --> 26:57.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, he, he essentially abdicated his responsibility to, to curate this data in, in a reasonable manner.
[26:57.310 --> 27:01.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that, that to me is not, you know, laudable in any respect.
[27:01.250 --> 27:06.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I, once again, I mean, he, he gave this to journalists and he left it up to them to go through the data.
[27:06.430 --> 27:09.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: But who's going to curate it if not journalists, who, who would you trust to do that?
[27:10.450 --> 27:14.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, you know, honestly, I would have trusted him to look at the information.
[27:14.810 --> 27:25.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: He was, he actually had legitimate, uh, he had a legitimate access to this information and could make an assessment as to whether or not something was lawful or unlawful, even being a non-lawyer.
[27:25.950 --> 27:27.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is something that he did initially.
[27:27.570 --> 27:31.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: He did that with the massive surveillance drag net that he disclosed.
[27:31.230 --> 27:36.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: And he was able to make a reasonable assumption that, Hey, this is something in the public interest.
[27:36.430 --> 27:37.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: It could have ended there.
[27:37.890 --> 27:44.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I would, I would be right with you singing his praises, but because it, it went so much farther than that.
[27:45.070 --> 27:46.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: For me, it's really a mixed bag.
[27:47.070 --> 27:49.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think that, I think that he acted irresponsibly.
[27:50.290 --> 27:51.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, what do you think should happen to him now?
[27:52.850 --> 27:56.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, look, I, I think right to the chase.
[27:57.010 --> 27:57.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[27:58.190 --> 28:05.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I, I, if I were in charge of what would happen to Snowden, I would, I would probably offer him some kind of clemency.
[28:05.590 --> 28:10.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's wrong for him to be, um, it's stuck over in Russia.
[28:11.130 --> 28:21.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Despite my, my misgivings about his intentions and, uh, and the effects, I think nine years in exile, almost 10 years where it was 2013 when this happened.
[28:21.610 --> 28:27.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think that's way long enough for him to be suffering and missing his family and being outside the country.
[28:27.210 --> 28:31.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think that this grant of citizenship is in, in some way, a recognition of that.
[28:32.630 --> 28:35.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, you know, look, it's Russian citizenship.
[28:35.370 --> 28:40.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's obvious to all of us that Snowden is, is, uh, is a great mind.
[28:41.110 --> 28:41.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: He's a brilliant mind.
[28:41.970 --> 28:44.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think he's one of the brightest and most brilliant minds of our generation.
[28:45.210 --> 28:49.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: I just don't agree with everything that he did, but I'd love to have him back here in the United States.
[28:49.650 --> 28:57.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'd love to hear what he has to say about content moderation, about what's happening on our various platforms, misinformation, election interference.
[28:57.910 --> 29:01.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: I feel like we're really missing out on a lot by keeping him over there.
[29:01.530 --> 29:11.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I hear this so often, uh, you know, it, it, it ended well with Chelsea Manning, you know, she's thriving and, and able to, you know, share things with people, not locked up in prison someplace.
[29:12.190 --> 29:16.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, we, we've said this to so many of our friends in the past, this person should be out there.
[29:16.870 --> 29:23.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: We said it about Virgil, our friend, uh, who's currently, uh, in prison for five years for a ridiculous charge.
[29:23.530 --> 29:26.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and, uh, we can certainly say that about Julian too.
[29:26.450 --> 29:30.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think, I think he has suffered more than enough and this should just end.
[29:31.290 --> 29:35.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let him go, let him live his life enough with, uh, torturing people.
[29:35.550 --> 29:38.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's far worse than anything that has been, uh, uh, revealed.
[29:39.110 --> 29:53.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, if you, if you're going to be applying this, um, the, this strict, um, uh, punishment for people who reveal secrets, you know, there's a guy in Florida right now that I can think of who's revealed a lot more that is, is pretty much not getting anything done to him.
[29:53.630 --> 29:57.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, it's, it, it, it's shameful to see how that plays out.
[29:58.350 --> 29:58.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[29:58.870 --> 30:02.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: I, I think there's some irony there and that I, I agree with both of you.
[30:02.630 --> 30:05.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think that there's been, I mean, what more could we do?
[30:05.550 --> 30:23.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: What more can be done, uh, to go into, uh, the technologies of play, the, who, the, how, what was done over a period of time that has been, was on, it was a different circumstance completely than the, than the, uh, the current moment.
[30:23.650 --> 30:33.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and, and I think that, uh, they need any kind of reintroduction, uh, here, if ever would, would not go unobserved.
[30:34.170 --> 30:34.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[30:34.330 --> 30:54.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: So it's not like, um, you know, they would have anything but, uh, uh, uh, uh, a normal reintroduction, but of course people would see them and they would be, uh, uh, uh, I don't know, subject to all kinds of, uh, uh, normal public life that, that here,
[30:54.730 --> 30:56.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know, how would it be normal?
[30:57.150 --> 30:58.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's a good point.
[30:58.190 --> 31:08.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's a good question because, you know, you're just going to go to the ice cream place and, and, uh, uh, see, uh, Julian buying a banana split whenever, um, well, let's talk about, uh, Snowden for now.
[31:09.110 --> 31:12.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but it certainly would apply to Julian as well.
[31:12.570 --> 31:20.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but, um, whenever I fall into his timeline one way or another, I retweet something of his or he retweets something or retweet the same thing.
[31:21.210 --> 31:33.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you get people, you know, on Twitter where people reply to both you and the other person, even if the other person isn't a part of that conversation, the hatred and vitriol that I get whenever Snowden is part of that conversation is scary.
[31:33.810 --> 31:34.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: It really is.
[31:35.330 --> 31:43.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, that to me is, is the true threat is that kind of, uh, you know, threats of violence and just, um, ignorance and hatred.
[31:44.150 --> 31:45.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's, it's, it's really horrible.
[31:45.350 --> 31:49.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I, I, I fear for anybody exposed to that kind of thing in real life.
[31:49.730 --> 31:54.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, um, that is, that is certainly, uh, where I would be concerned.
[31:55.150 --> 32:03.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: I, I remember, you know, back in, what was it, 2016 when, when Snowden gave our keynote at, at the Hope Conference, we were so honored to have him do that remotely from, from Russia.
[32:04.330 --> 32:07.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and it was, um, um, with, uh, Daniel Ellsberg.
[32:07.590 --> 32:16.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was, it was, you know, a truly incredible event, but we were so honored to be able to hang out with, uh, with, uh, with Snowden's parents in the East Village and just show them around.
[32:16.770 --> 32:37.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I, you know, I was able to get from them how Edward Snowden got his values because they, they were so honest and, and, and good, uh, you know, just seeing, seeing, um, the, the problems that exist in society, but not judging, you know, and, and I just was very impressed with that.
[32:37.590 --> 32:50.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I could see how somebody would feel that, um, uh, what Edward Snowden eventually did was a hard choice, but the right choice because it was honest and it was, um, it was something that needed to be done.
[32:50.910 --> 32:56.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, there's very few people that I get that immediately from, but, um, those people I did.
[32:57.790 --> 33:00.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, look, I, I agree with you there.
[33:00.230 --> 33:08.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think it was definitely a hard choice, a life-changing choice, some, a choice that he made from which he could never go back.
[33:08.530 --> 33:16.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: And there's, I think, a great amount of, of fortitude and bravery that goes along with having to make those types of choices and making them the way that he did.
[33:16.970 --> 33:18.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: I, I agree with you.
[33:18.090 --> 33:18.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: Patriotism.
[33:18.690 --> 33:22.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's, that's what we expect our soldiers to do, you know, to, to fight for democracy.
[33:22.810 --> 33:25.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I, I think he's doing something very, very similar.
[33:25.390 --> 33:29.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, look, I, I, but I, but I just, I disagree that all of his choices were right.
[33:29.750 --> 33:30.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think the initial ones were right.
[33:31.050 --> 33:43.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: I disagree with some of the, the, the subsequent choices, but, you know, also in, in terms of the ability to, to bring him back here in some way or another, I, I wonder if he would want to come back.
[33:43.630 --> 34:01.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, he may, I think he would, um, in, in some ways and some others, maybe not, but, you know, there are ways to have some form of justice be served without giving him clemency or, or dropping the, the case entirely.
[34:02.430 --> 34:18.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, if, if I were the attorney general here, I think what I would try to do to get snowed back into this country would be to work out some kind of plea agreement whereby he would get probation or, you know, some kind of fine or something like that,
[34:18.470 --> 34:20.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: because he, he has suffered.
[34:20.490 --> 34:27.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: He has, I think, paid a great price for what he did and, and being stuck in Russia all this time is, is absolutely horrible.
[34:28.050 --> 34:30.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: And this is a vocal person.
[34:30.890 --> 34:37.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think he's been also noticeably absent about Russia's atrocities and what's happening in Ukraine.
[34:37.230 --> 34:45.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: And he probably fears for his safety if he speaks out there, just like anybody else in Russia, who, uh, would fear for their safety if they spoke out against.
[34:45.730 --> 35:00.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's, it's, it's, it's actually, uh, you know, even worse, it's worse for him because, uh, while everybody in Russia has to be afraid of speaking out against the government, um, he has, he, he might face those penalties, but he could also be booted out of the country and sent here.
[35:01.250 --> 35:03.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: He'd be, he, he'd go through even more hell.
[35:04.030 --> 35:09.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but all that said, you know, I could see him speaking out anyway, a great personal sacrifice.
[35:10.050 --> 35:11.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's the kind of person he is.
[35:11.190 --> 35:12.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it is.
[35:12.190 --> 35:14.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's why I think it's, it's unfair to credit.
[35:14.670 --> 35:24.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: And there has been a great deal of criticism directed towards Snowden for it concerning his failure to speak out about Russia's human rights abuses and aggression in Ukraine.
[35:24.370 --> 35:29.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, and I think for the reasons you just mentioned, Emmanuel, that's, uh, that's unfair criticism.
[35:29.730 --> 35:29.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[35:29.850 --> 35:31.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's not just him, it's his family, you know?
[35:31.990 --> 35:34.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: So you have to think of, of multiple people there.
[35:35.070 --> 35:38.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but we'd love to hear what listeners have to, um, have to say about this.
[35:38.890 --> 35:46.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: oth@2600.com is our email address, or you can call us, uh, after eight o'clock on, um, Off The Hook Overtime over on YouTube Channel2600.
[35:46.990 --> 35:49.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, we have a letter that somebody sent us.
[35:49.410 --> 35:52.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: This comes from odd Bjorn of Norway.
[35:52.650 --> 35:53.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Odd Bjorn.
[35:54.410 --> 35:54.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[35:54.870 --> 36:00.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: Kyle, do you remember we met somebody named odd who was from Norway on the QM two when we went overseas?
[36:00.470 --> 36:01.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we know odd.
[36:01.570 --> 36:09.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: He was an old British guy that somehow had Norwegian roots and he just was talking to us about, um, all kinds of artificial intelligence.
[36:09.790 --> 36:13.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: He must've been in his eighties, but he, he, he was so passionate about this.
[36:13.090 --> 36:14.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: Could not get him to stop.
[36:14.350 --> 36:15.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: He was, we tried.
[36:15.530 --> 36:21.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: He was always discussing the, the eye in it as being more important.
[36:22.230 --> 36:26.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, there's the technology, but there's the information, you know, what is the information?
[36:26.990 --> 36:29.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: And he would not let go of that.
[36:29.770 --> 36:30.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, he would not let go of that.
[36:30.730 --> 36:32.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: Not even after we got off the boat, he would not.
[36:32.430 --> 36:34.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: No matter how much I thought I understood it.
[36:34.850 --> 36:36.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, no, you never, you never could.
[36:36.930 --> 36:41.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: So just make sure you have more eye in, in, than T.
[36:41.670 --> 36:44.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, hopefully he's listening, but odd from England.
[36:44.810 --> 36:46.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's, that's who he was, but he was originally from Norway.
[36:46.990 --> 36:54.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, Odd Bjorn, uh, through your letter, um, in the off talk over time, you complained about the difficulties uninstalling malware like Facebook.
[36:55.630 --> 36:56.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I like this.
[36:56.850 --> 36:57.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: I like where this is going.
[36:57.790 --> 37:00.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: Malware like Facebook from Android devices.
[37:00.470 --> 37:17.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: In the past, I have had success uninstalling malware that is uninstallable from the device itself using Android debug bridge, um, from a PC, uh, with, um, um, it's called ADB, um, with, with ADB installed, installed packages could be listed with this command,
[37:18.110 --> 37:27.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: uh, ADB shell PM list packages, which gave a long list of names that are very different from the names listed on the device.
[37:27.930 --> 37:40.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: Using an online translation list, I was able to find the name of the malware that I wanted to remove and uninstall it with the command to uninstall, uh, com.malware.bloat.
[37:40.170 --> 37:41.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's what we're calling it, I guess.
[37:41.670 --> 37:49.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, so the command would be ADB shell PM uninstall dash K double dash user.
[37:50.090 --> 37:55.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, is that a zero or an open and close parenthesis there?
[37:56.150 --> 37:57.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, that's a zero.
[37:57.470 --> 37:57.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's a zero.
[37:58.030 --> 37:58.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[37:58.230 --> 37:58.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: I couldn't tell.
[37:59.190 --> 38:00.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: We need to replace the ink.
[38:00.690 --> 38:02.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, com.malware.bloat.
[38:02.670 --> 38:11.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, these days we are almost required to have a Google or Apple device in order to, uh, interact effectively with the world around us here in Norway.
[38:11.250 --> 38:18.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: They are used for two factor authentication for logging into our banks, online card payments, charging our electric cars.
[38:18.450 --> 38:22.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: You need a, a Google device or an Apple device to charge your cars.
[38:22.290 --> 38:22.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[38:23.130 --> 38:27.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, buying tickets for public transport payment for parking and more.
[38:27.970 --> 38:40.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: If one does not use apps from Google play or Apple app server or Apple app store rather, um, for these things, one is punished by having to use less convenient methods.
[38:40.290 --> 38:55.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: And in some cases with higher prices, I like using apps for many of these things, but I do not like being required to be a customer of either Google or Apple and accepting their terms of services in order to use these apps, nor do I like using non-free software.
[38:57.050 --> 38:58.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: Amen on all of this.
[38:58.610 --> 39:06.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, I have for a long time, uh, run, um, um, um, I don't know how to pronounce this, uh, San gen mod.
[39:07.450 --> 39:08.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[39:08.410 --> 39:17.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: And a later lineage OS on, uh, several Android devices, which I like because it is mostly free software and hopefully without malware.
[39:18.310 --> 39:23.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: Unfortunately, I left those devices incapable of banking, charging cars and so on.
[39:23.390 --> 39:35.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: I recently discovered that I can install software from Google app store without installing any Google software and without a Google account, um, through an app called Aurora store, a U R O R A.
[39:36.050 --> 39:46.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: Unfortunately, many of them did not work since they required a malware called Google play or Google play services, rather, uh, to be installed on the device.
[39:46.290 --> 39:53.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Luckily there is a free software alternative called micro G with a version of lineage OS passed with micro G.
[39:53.410 --> 39:58.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: I installed the apps I need to interact with society and several of them seem to work.
[39:58.410 --> 40:04.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: I have noticed that the problem seems to be accelerating more and more services need these Google play or Apple app store apps.
[40:05.010 --> 40:08.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: I fear as we move forward, things will get even worse.
[40:08.510 --> 40:12.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: More services will require apps to interact with.
[40:12.470 --> 40:28.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: And those apps can only be found on two places or in two places, Google play and Apple app store, uh, companies, authorities, and politicians are not going to understand the problem of requiring users of services to also be customers of Google and Apple.
[40:29.190 --> 40:31.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: Most people will not see it as a problem either.
[40:31.850 --> 40:35.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hope it gets better, but I fail to see how, what do you think?
[40:36.070 --> 40:39.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, uh, uh, Bjorn, thank you for that excellent letter.
[40:39.290 --> 40:45.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, you raise a lot of really good points and your passion and dedication to bypassing all of this is admirable.
[40:46.450 --> 40:50.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: I wish I could say I saw a clear path to something better.
[40:50.890 --> 40:53.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think we still have to build that clear path.
[40:53.710 --> 40:58.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: We have to, um, in much the way that Linux, uh, came up out of, uh, out of the ashes.
[40:59.530 --> 41:13.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think we can come up with an alternative way of doing all the things that we need to do in this day and age using our smartphones, but without signing on to either Google or Apple and just figuring out a way to do it ourselves.
[41:14.150 --> 41:15.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: But we have to work together.
[41:15.590 --> 41:17.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, we can't be, uh, in our own little camps.
[41:18.010 --> 41:22.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: We can't be, uh, you know, condemning one particular version over a different one.
[41:23.530 --> 41:30.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, there's a lot to learn, but I think there are enough people that really feel the way that you do, that we do.
[41:30.750 --> 41:35.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, this is definitely something it's a, it's a big project, but it's something that I think is necessary.
[41:35.390 --> 41:36.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think it's something we can accomplish.
[41:37.230 --> 41:37.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[41:37.770 --> 41:48.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: Make, making it fun and, uh, and, and, and in different ways, uh, adaptable, something that, uh, is easily understand, uh, understood are, those are crucial.
[41:48.230 --> 41:55.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: Those are key things that, um, give people the ability to share with others and, and, uh, work around some of these issues.
[41:55.490 --> 42:06.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: But it is this overall trend of software as a service and now in, in operating systems and, um, which is many ways been a, uh, uh, tradition with the telephone.
[42:06.830 --> 42:11.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, uh, in this case, I think that it's, uh, it's just something fierce.
[42:11.530 --> 42:16.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: You have to protect fiercely, uh, the ability to do general computing anymore.
[42:16.130 --> 42:34.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: It is, it is territory that, um, wants to always be connected and always, um, uh, working, uh, with a system, uh, from afar or, or from, uh, some other, uh, area and as a part of a component in a larger systems.
[42:34.530 --> 42:43.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, and people got to understand that this is how it's structured and, and, and it is, it is what they are, um, relinquishing a lot of their control to.
[42:43.830 --> 43:03.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, um, yeah, I mean, a standalone software running on a standalone operating system or, um, something that, that, and that you can, um, modify or update it's, it's becoming, uh, too much work or, you know, when, no, no, no, when it becomes too much work where we're relinquishing that control and,
[43:03.070 --> 43:04.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: and you got to protect that.
[43:04.350 --> 43:16.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: You got to, um, help people understand and help people, um, feel like they, they are empowered in this, uh, in the process of, of, uh, resisting some of the temptation.
[43:17.010 --> 43:17.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[43:17.150 --> 43:37.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: We have to resist the temptation of just turning it all over to some other entity because it's easier, whether it's putting things in the cloud or just having, uh, your contacts, um, um, organized by some, some massive corporation that you know nothing about who inevitably at some point lose it or expose it to the public and it gets compromised.
[43:38.510 --> 43:45.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and, uh, if you want to do something like, you know, run your own mail server, you're, you're basically told you're crazy and nobody wants to do that anymore.
[43:46.310 --> 43:50.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, we see it all the time, but the benefits really pay off.
[43:50.250 --> 43:50.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: What do you think, Alex?
[43:51.610 --> 43:53.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I tend to agree.
[43:53.230 --> 44:09.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think, I think we're all beginning to reconsider the, the Faustian type bargains we've made with big technology companies over the past few years and wondered if it was worth having a permanent email address at Gmail to, to have it continually mined year after year for the,
[44:10.010 --> 44:22.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: for its content so that some platform could get a, a better profile of your purchasing and communication habits, which could then be sold through a data broker to another platform and then repackaged with some other data and then sold to another platform.
[44:22.810 --> 44:30.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: And so, so, yeah, I mean, I think it's high time we, we begin, you know, really rethinking these types of bargains that we're making.
[44:32.730 --> 44:33.170]  Absolutely.
[44:33.170 --> 44:33.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[44:33.970 --> 44:37.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, we have one more story to get to tonight before we go to overtime.
[44:37.990 --> 44:39.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, this is interesting.
[44:39.450 --> 44:57.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, you know, the, uh, organization girls who code, it turns out the founder of that organization, uh, Reshma Sojani, uh, recently found out that, um, her company's book series had been placed on a list of banned books in schools, girls who code banned.
[44:58.050 --> 44:58.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: Think about that.
[44:58.850 --> 45:03.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: The series chronicles a group of young girls and their adventures as part of a coding club at their school.
[45:04.290 --> 45:10.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, it was, um, added to pen America's index of school book bans.
[45:11.130 --> 45:17.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, uh, pen America is, uh, basically they compile lists of, um, of, of books that have been banned.
[45:17.810 --> 45:22.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and this story just hit a couple of days ago and it's been blowing up all over the net.
[45:22.890 --> 45:23.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's a problem though.
[45:24.110 --> 45:28.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: The problem is that this happened a year ago and we're only just finding out about it now.
[45:29.130 --> 45:37.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's, it's, it's definitely something to be outraged at, but what I'm seeing, I'm seeing a lot of people being outraged at, uh, school districts that, um, overturned the ban.
[45:37.950 --> 45:40.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: They overturned the ban in September of 2021.
[45:41.370 --> 45:45.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and it was, the, the books had been banned for 10 months before that.
[45:46.190 --> 45:48.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: And we're only just finding out about all of this now.
[45:48.530 --> 45:56.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's the problem that it takes that long to find out that books are being banned and which particular books are being banned.
[45:56.890 --> 46:02.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's important to, um, uh, to, to, uh, know the facts of the story to know that they're not banned.
[46:02.750 --> 46:07.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: They haven't been banned for a year, but the question is why were they banned?
[46:07.710 --> 46:13.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: And also how do we find out a lot quicker when a book does get banned?
[46:13.670 --> 46:16.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because certainly the people who are banning the books, they know what books are being banned.
[46:16.610 --> 46:18.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, they're spreading this information somehow.
[46:19.050 --> 46:22.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, do we have to join their club to, uh, to get, you know, the updated list?
[46:23.610 --> 46:32.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, this, this, you know, this story, you know, had it been, um, jumped on a year and a half ago when it was, uh, actually happening.
[46:32.490 --> 46:39.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, that would have been a very, very strong story that everybody, uh, I'm sure would have taken an interest in.
[46:40.610 --> 46:54.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, anyway, um, so Johnny says she believed the, the move could have been part of a larger effort by moms for liberty, which is a conservative organization, uh, that advocates for, um, parental rights in schools, including oversight of educational material.
[46:55.110 --> 46:55.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Makes sense.
[46:56.310 --> 47:04.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, after publication, uh, moms for liberty said allegations that moms for liberty has worked to ban girls who code are completely false.
[47:05.050 --> 47:19.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, those books were joined by other recent additions to the list, um, several of which tackle racial, women's, and LGBTQ plus rights issues, including the handmaid's tale, speak, and, um, uh, fun home, a family, a tragic comic.
[47:20.250 --> 47:22.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but again, those are recent.
[47:22.750 --> 47:23.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: Those are a lot more recent.
[47:23.990 --> 47:26.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: In fact, they're still ongoing in, in many cases.
[47:27.250 --> 47:30.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, Susanna says, we, we, we use these stories to teach kids to code.
[47:31.190 --> 47:40.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: It felt very much like a direct attack on the movement we've been building to get girls coding, especially in districts that don't have the technology or have disparate Wi-Fi.
[47:41.570 --> 47:46.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: Books are a great way to learn to code and a way to equalize access to coding.
[47:46.690 --> 47:54.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: She added that removing the books not only hinders visibility for women in technology, uh, and technology fields, but also diversity in the industry.
[47:54.390 --> 47:58.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: As many of the protagonists in the series are young girls of color.
[47:58.690 --> 48:00.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: You cannot be what you cannot see.
[48:00.950 --> 48:06.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: She said, they don't want girls to learn how to code because that's a way to be economically secure.
[48:07.390 --> 48:13.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, the authors of the girls who code books, um, join Susani and speaking out about the ban.
[48:14.490 --> 48:27.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, Joe, uh, Whitmore said, uh, yep, I've been banned because some people choose not to focus on how awesome and empowering and inspiring these books are, but instead choose fear.
[48:28.030 --> 48:33.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, after learning of the ban, Susani said she reached out to the central York school district president.
[48:33.750 --> 48:35.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: I believe that's in Pennsylvania.
[48:36.010 --> 48:40.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and, uh, several teachers in the area to understand why the books had been banned.
[48:41.030 --> 48:45.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's an opportunity to realize how big this movement is against our kids and how much we need to fight.
[48:45.630 --> 48:47.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is an opportunity to start more clubs.
[48:47.430 --> 48:51.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: We get more girls to code and get more girls to become economically free.
[48:51.550 --> 48:52.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: Couldn't agree more.
[48:52.750 --> 48:57.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but the important thing is to also know the facts that they're not being banned now.
[48:57.730 --> 49:06.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: In fact, the people in that school district, the school board, the teachers, they could have played a major part in preventing these books from being banned.
[49:07.070 --> 49:15.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: And unfortunately they're being targeted now as the instigators of the ban, because to many, it seems, and I think the story even ran as if it was happening right now.
[49:15.550 --> 49:20.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: So we have to just be careful that we have the facts straight, but this is something I want to know more about.
[49:20.450 --> 49:22.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: I want to know how this happened, who was behind it.
[49:22.870 --> 49:24.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: And where is it happening now?
[49:24.810 --> 49:28.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because undoubtedly, if one school district was banning these books, there are others.
[49:28.810 --> 49:34.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: So we need a better pipeline to that information so that we're on it as soon as it happens.
[49:34.890 --> 49:34.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[49:35.050 --> 49:35.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's called journalism.
[49:36.210 --> 49:45.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: We got to not deride it, have a little bit of faith, a little trust, and maybe a little more awareness about the place it has in society.
[49:46.690 --> 49:50.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: And yeah, the bad information, I think, is a big theme there.
[49:51.330 --> 49:52.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: It happens a lot.
[49:52.510 --> 49:55.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: It happens a lot, especially on the Internet, where dates aren't always apparent.
[49:56.150 --> 49:58.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: In this particular case, though, it's a major story.
[49:58.030 --> 49:59.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's something that we all need to know about.
[50:00.010 --> 50:04.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's just, it's important to also have, you know, the current updates.
[50:04.350 --> 50:09.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: But again, you know, I want to know where this is happening, and I want to know, you know, as soon as possible.
[50:10.110 --> 50:26.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, when the library in Smithtown, Long Island tried to ban gay and lesbian material during Pride Month in the children's area, it got such an immediate response that they were forced to turn back within 24 hours.
[50:26.550 --> 50:28.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.
[50:28.210 --> 50:31.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: When people become aware of this, they act.
[50:32.050 --> 50:34.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: And there are consequences.
[50:34.850 --> 50:35.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: Go ahead, Alex.
[50:35.350 --> 50:43.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, I think just more fundamentally, the whole notion of banning books in a school district is just ridiculous.
[50:43.990 --> 50:45.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: The whole thing is absurd.
[50:45.850 --> 50:51.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it caused this bizarre timeline conundrum as well.
[50:52.030 --> 51:02.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that I think what happened here was that the books were supposed to not be used or put on this banned list for resources, but they were already being used.
[51:02.450 --> 51:11.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: And books that were being used were accepted from that ban until sometime last year when people got angry that there was no movement on this ban list.
[51:11.530 --> 51:16.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: So then they reissued some kind of decree expecting movement with regard to those resources.
[51:16.510 --> 51:18.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the Girls Who Code book was on it.
[51:18.150 --> 51:23.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: But it's just a crazy thing to ban books like this as well.
[51:24.090 --> 51:32.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I can understand adult material, pornography, you know, maybe, maybe the, you know, the anarchist cookbook shouldn't be in every public library.
[51:32.590 --> 51:33.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, we can talk about that.
[51:33.870 --> 51:37.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, we, we have to, I'm sorry, Alex, we have to stop now, because we're out of time.
[51:38.030 --> 51:39.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's take it up on overtime.
[51:39.270 --> 51:45.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: Join us on YouTube Channel2600 or write to us oth@2600.com.
[51:45.470 --> 51:47.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: Keep listening to WBAI.
[51:47.710 --> 51:49.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: We'll be back next week.
[51:49.970 --> 51:50.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: Good night.
[51:50.270 --> 52:18.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Your name is Big Brother You say that you're watching me on the telly Seeing me go nowhere Your name is Big Brother You say that you're tired of me protesting.
[52:20.100 --> 52:23.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Children dying every day.
[52:27.610 --> 52:30.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: My name is nobody.
[52:31.410 --> 52:37.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I can't wait to see your face inside my door.
[52:46.090 --> 52:48.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Your name is Big Brother.
[52:50.630 --> 52:55.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: You say that you got me on in your mobile.
[52:57.050 --> 53:00.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Writing it down every day.
[53:04.590 --> 53:08.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Your name is I'll see you.
[53:09.230 --> 53:14.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll change if you vote me in as a place.
[53:15.250 --> 53:18.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's a den of your toys.
[53:22.850 --> 53:25.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: I live in the ghetto.
[53:26.550 --> 53:33.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: You just come to visit me around the Lexington High.
[53:33.010 --> 53:48.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: I live in the ghetto.
[53:48.130 --> 53:48.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Someday I'll see you.
[53:48.790 --> 53:48.790]  I'll see you.
[53:48.790 --> 53:54.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'll see you.
[53:59.890 --> 54:02.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: I live in the ghetto.
[54:03.710 --> 54:08.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Someday I will move on my feet to the house.
[54:17.980 --> 54:20.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: My name is secluded.
[54:22.640 --> 54:27.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: We live in a house the size of a matchbox.
[54:28.960 --> 54:32.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'll just live with us one to one.
[54:36.750 --> 54:38.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: You've killed all our leaders.
[54:41.190 --> 54:46.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't even have to do nothing to you.
[54:47.130 --> 54:50.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: You've caused your own country to fall.
[55:14.880 --> 55:18.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: And welcome to everybody over here on YouTube.
[55:18.700 --> 55:20.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's Off The Hook Overtime.
[55:21.520 --> 55:29.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: The program after the program where we continue our discussions and occasionally take phone calls from you, our listener.
[55:30.660 --> 55:34.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's go with the number early so that everybody has an equal shot.
[55:35.120 --> 55:40.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: 802-321-4225-802-321-HACK.
[55:41.270 --> 55:43.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Kyle, did you make it okay into Overtime Land?
[55:43.760 --> 55:44.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, I did.
[55:44.350 --> 55:47.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: And Alex over in Skype-land, did you make it to Overtimeville?
[55:47.540 --> 55:48.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: I did indeed.
[55:48.380 --> 55:49.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm here.
[55:49.160 --> 55:49.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Good.
[55:49.660 --> 55:50.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I like disagreeing.
[55:50.730 --> 55:53.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: I like it when we, you know, butt heads on these issues.
[55:53.760 --> 55:58.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's something important that we all could do more of.
[55:59.080 --> 55:59.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: Disagreeing is good.
[55:59.940 --> 56:00.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, being challenged is good.
[56:01.140 --> 56:03.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Saying, you know, I think you're wrong is... I like to hear that.
[56:03.810 --> 56:04.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hear it a lot.
[56:05.350 --> 56:06.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: I disagree.
[56:06.880 --> 56:08.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, let's not exaggerate.
[56:08.500 --> 56:08.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: You bastard.
[56:08.800 --> 56:09.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: How dare you?
[56:11.200 --> 56:26.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I mean, I do think it's also healthy when we disagree about things because the dialogue that we have, I think, allows us to see, like, when Kyle chimed in, that there were a lot of areas of commonality and we didn't totally disagree with each other,
[56:27.080 --> 56:33.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: but that we can do it in a civil way, in a respectful way, and still clean glasses after the show.
[56:34.200 --> 56:39.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, it doesn't have to be identity-defining, you know, whatever the issue is.
[56:39.800 --> 56:42.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's how the world used to be.
[56:42.200 --> 56:49.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: We used to talk about things, disagree, argue it out, and, you know, maybe there was a victor, maybe there wasn't, but we'd come to some kind of compromise.
[56:49.960 --> 56:51.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's how the world used to work.
[56:52.300 --> 56:52.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
[56:53.100 --> 57:00.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the observations we all have, our different perspectives, can inform one another.
[57:00.460 --> 57:03.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, yeah, I just...
[57:05.270 --> 57:16.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I feel like we're able to encapsulate that and keep our conversation going, despite maybe just a little bit of a difference on it.
[57:17.160 --> 57:19.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: But I think that, yeah, we...
[57:19.000 --> 57:22.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: We land on different sides of issues, and sometimes it surprises people.
[57:23.180 --> 57:32.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, that's reflected in feedback that we get, basically saying things like, I can't believe you're taking the side of this particular entity that, you know, we have absolutely no intention of taking the side of.
[57:32.800 --> 57:37.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Just sometimes you land on the same side of people that you disagree with, even with other instances.
[57:37.300 --> 57:40.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're also, we're reacting to the news stories.
[57:40.260 --> 57:42.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're reacting to these ongoing sagas.
[57:42.760 --> 57:53.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're interpreting from whatever, however flawed a reporting and journalism, as I was deriding earlier, or glorifying, however you want to interpret it.
[57:54.020 --> 57:57.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, we're basing it on whatever we have at the time and our takes on it.
[57:57.800 --> 57:59.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're certainly not experts.
[57:59.200 --> 58:11.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're relying on one another's perspectives to inform, you know, overall consensus, or maybe, you know, what priorities are in light of whatever the stories are.
[58:11.580 --> 58:12.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, I don't know.
[58:12.420 --> 58:13.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: We do as much as we can.
[58:13.960 --> 58:16.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we want to give people an opportunity to talk, too.
[58:16.340 --> 58:18.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, sometimes our minds change.
[58:18.730 --> 58:19.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Sometimes we're convinced.
[58:19.760 --> 58:22.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: Sometimes we find out that, hey, I'm wrong.
[58:22.540 --> 58:24.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: I wasn't informed completely.
[58:24.340 --> 58:25.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now I am.
[58:25.340 --> 58:27.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I've changed my perspective.
[58:27.920 --> 58:31.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and you get more information over time, too.
[58:33.200 --> 58:35.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Things have a different appearance over time.
[58:36.080 --> 58:37.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: That election was stolen.
[58:37.500 --> 58:38.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was.
[58:38.230 --> 58:39.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: And let me tell you why.
[58:39.260 --> 58:42.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'll tell you that as soon as I tell you why all vaccinations are bad.
[58:42.810 --> 58:43.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, I'm kidding.
[58:43.800 --> 58:44.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm kidding.
[58:44.500 --> 58:45.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, we can joke, right?
[58:46.160 --> 58:46.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: We can, right?
[58:47.760 --> 58:48.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[58:48.260 --> 58:48.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, thank you.
[58:48.850 --> 58:50.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, from time and time, it's allowed.
[58:50.720 --> 58:50.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[58:51.460 --> 58:54.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so sometimes we offend people, too.
[58:55.260 --> 58:55.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[58:55.760 --> 58:56.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, we have a phone call.
[58:56.420 --> 58:58.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: I wasn't aware any calls were coming in.
[58:59.100 --> 59:00.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's take our first call.
[59:00.560 --> 59:01.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, good God.
[59:01.760 --> 59:02.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello, man.
[59:02.810 --> 59:03.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[59:03.400 --> 59:04.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: See, that was the problem.
[59:05.040 --> 59:06.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Someone's talking before we even pick up.
[59:06.840 --> 59:07.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're going to try that again.
[59:08.020 --> 59:09.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Are they still on the line?
[59:09.420 --> 59:10.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, you bet.
[59:10.400 --> 59:10.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[59:11.380 --> 59:16.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, wait for us to say, hello, welcome to Off The Hook Overtime before speaking.
[59:17.160 --> 59:19.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that was just me saying that.
[59:19.730 --> 59:20.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello.
[59:20.180 --> 59:22.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, welcome to Off The Hook Overtime.
[59:24.440 --> 59:24.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
[59:25.310 --> 59:26.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hi, Emmanuel.
[59:27.520 --> 59:28.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: Rebel, this is you.
[59:28.640 --> 59:32.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Why am I not surprised that you're the one causing trouble?
[59:32.660 --> 59:35.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, because the volume's too low on the thing.
[59:35.180 --> 59:35.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, here we go again.
[59:35.920 --> 59:36.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: The volume's too low.
[59:36.900 --> 59:39.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, Kyle told me to watch the volume, make sure it didn't go too high.
[59:39.900 --> 59:40.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm doing that.
[59:41.040 --> 59:42.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: But it's not high enough for you.
[59:42.080 --> 59:42.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let me look at that.
[59:42.660 --> 59:44.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, I can't deal with this anymore.
[59:44.400 --> 59:44.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, I'm coming over there.
[59:44.960 --> 59:46.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Always levels, levels, levels, levels.
[59:46.420 --> 59:47.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Everything is too high or too low.
[59:48.470 --> 59:52.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: All these lines and dials and beeps and things.
[59:53.500 --> 59:54.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Enough already.
[59:54.500 --> 59:54.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: Enough.
[59:55.160 --> 59:55.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[59:55.730 --> 59:56.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're making it louder.
[59:56.880 --> 59:58.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're making it louder for you, okay?
[59:58.300 --> 01:00:00.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: And we're also all going to shout from now on.
[01:00:00.100 --> 01:00:00.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: How about that?
[01:00:00.840 --> 01:00:01.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Will that make you happy?
[01:00:01.900 --> 01:00:02.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Good.
[01:00:02.640 --> 01:00:03.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm telling you.
[01:00:03.660 --> 01:00:04.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, okay.
[01:00:04.730 --> 01:00:10.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Anyway, I'd like to mention, I'd like to mention that Reputation Defender, you've heard of them.
[01:00:10.960 --> 01:00:13.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think they've been advertising a lot lately.
[01:00:13.480 --> 01:00:14.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's something.
[01:00:14.900 --> 01:00:16.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's kind of funny.
[01:00:16.380 --> 01:00:21.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're an organization that will salvage your reputation after you've been thoroughly trashed on the Internet.
[01:00:22.660 --> 01:00:27.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: And can you imagine when their database leaks of people who use their services?
[01:00:27.420 --> 01:00:33.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because all those people have bad reputations on the Internet, and you can probably find scandals about them, true or not.
[01:00:34.270 --> 01:00:39.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, like you want to go to a particular hotel or go to a particular restaurant, and you look at their reviews.
[01:00:39.770 --> 01:00:42.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, they're very good reviews, and you know, they've got five-star reviews.
[01:00:42.850 --> 01:00:47.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, they, of course, they didn't, because Reputation Defender puts all the bad reviews down at the bottom.
[01:00:47.980 --> 01:00:49.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: How do they do that?
[01:00:49.300 --> 01:00:52.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, but it's also used by individuals, too, right?
[01:00:52.700 --> 01:00:53.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Not just hotels.
[01:00:55.640 --> 01:00:57.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: Do you have Reputation Defender used by individuals?
[01:00:58.380 --> 01:00:59.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: I saw advertisements for that.
[01:00:59.770 --> 01:01:04.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if it was Reputation Defender was the name of the company, but I've seen advertisements for companies.
[01:01:04.180 --> 01:01:07.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: Basically, it's somebody saying, oh, my God, I can't believe they're still saying this about me.
[01:01:07.850 --> 01:01:11.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think they get rejected at a job interview because somebody looks up their name.
[01:01:12.420 --> 01:01:17.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's how you hire this company to clean up your image.
[01:01:17.120 --> 01:01:22.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, like you could be a former president or something, or like maybe you lost your job.
[01:01:23.260 --> 01:01:34.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, I thought it was like when you do a Google search, like when you'd go on Google and search for a hotel or a particular restaurant or a particular business, and you find it, and you look at the reviews, and they say, they seem to be good.
[01:01:34.460 --> 01:01:35.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, Yelp does that.
[01:01:35.340 --> 01:01:35.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yelp.
[01:01:35.680 --> 01:01:36.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: The Yelp cartel.
[01:01:36.720 --> 01:01:38.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, this is what Yelp does.
[01:01:38.040 --> 01:01:40.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: And this comes from restaurateurs that we know.
[01:01:40.420 --> 01:01:47.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: They basically blackmail restaurant owners into paying for services so that the bad reviews kind of disappear.
[01:01:47.850 --> 01:01:52.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Otherwise, there are bad reviews that are right there, front and center, and they have no control over it.
[01:01:52.540 --> 01:01:58.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Prove me wrong, but every restaurateur I know has told me this, and it's really sad and disgusting.
[01:01:59.270 --> 01:02:07.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, a hotel will pay a reputation defender to take the bad reviews and put them at the bottom and, you know, put good reviews on.
[01:02:07.340 --> 01:02:08.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: They'll just have people make up reviews.
[01:02:09.310 --> 01:02:13.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, whatever happened to the good old-fashioned make-up reviews, why don't they just do that?
[01:02:13.900 --> 01:02:14.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: It seems simple enough.
[01:02:16.460 --> 01:02:26.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: The other thing I would like to say and mention is, when you go to a supermarket now, they're playing commercials on the speaker, you know, like on the audio commercials on the loudspeaker.
[01:02:26.980 --> 01:02:27.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: You just noticed that?
[01:02:27.850 --> 01:02:29.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: Actual commercials I can hear on the radio.
[01:02:29.310 --> 01:02:30.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I hear that all the time.
[01:02:33.700 --> 01:02:37.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: Also, can you get the number of a toll-free, the owner of a toll-free number?
[01:02:38.260 --> 01:02:45.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: Or, like, when I've been getting scam calls, well, you know, they call, would you like a student loan help or whatever?
[01:02:45.560 --> 01:02:46.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: Of course, I don't have a student loan.
[01:02:47.120 --> 01:02:50.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: So they, you know, call them this 888 number or 877 number.
[01:02:50.480 --> 01:02:53.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: Is there a way to get the owner of a toll-free number, whether it's 800 or...
[01:02:54.890 --> 01:03:09.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, one way I find to track down people that are annoying me is to say, yes, I will take an interest in the services you're offering, because eventually they'll give you more, they'll give you more information about themselves and where do I mail a check,
[01:03:09.380 --> 01:03:09.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: et cetera, et cetera.
[01:03:10.120 --> 01:03:15.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: And with every little bit of information, that's a door into finding out more that they don't want you to find out.
[01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:17.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: I know not everybody wants to do that, but...
[01:03:17.720 --> 01:03:18.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: They'll tell you to...
[01:03:18.180 --> 01:03:20.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, they don't tell you to mail a check, but they'll tell you to buy a gift card.
[01:03:20.980 --> 01:03:21.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[01:03:22.400 --> 01:03:29.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, once they feel that you're not a threat to them, they'll give out more information and they'll let some things slip.
[01:03:29.460 --> 01:03:33.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you can also, you know, look online and see if other people are sharing information.
[01:03:34.100 --> 01:03:47.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, there are actual YouTube pages or YouTube sites, you know, like Scambators, that actual people have videos of them getting, you know, who these people are and, you know, Indian scammers and all that and, you know.
[01:03:47.720 --> 01:03:48.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: Things like that.
[01:03:48.540 --> 01:03:51.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's all different countries do this, and a lot comes from right here.
[01:03:51.720 --> 01:03:52.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, all different countries.
[01:03:52.200 --> 01:03:53.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's the other thing.
[01:03:53.100 --> 01:04:06.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you get a call and then you try and call the number and it doesn't work or it's disconnected, you know that it's a scam because any business would not just call from, you know, a number that doesn't work or a number that even goes to somebody else.
[01:04:06.100 --> 01:04:07.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know what you're talking about.
[01:04:07.770 --> 01:04:08.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
[01:04:09.220 --> 01:04:15.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: We have an interesting story here, actually, just on this particular thing that you mentioned, or at least a subset of it.
[01:04:15.980 --> 01:04:24.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: FCC has just released a plan to require mobile carriers to block a wide range of illegal text messages.
[01:04:24.230 --> 01:04:24.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:04:25.020 --> 01:04:31.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: In this notice of proposed rulemaking, which is called an NPRM, by the way, why do they need to have acronyms for everything?
[01:04:31.940 --> 01:04:41.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: We propose to require mobile wireless providers to block illegal text messages, building on our ongoing work to stop illegal and unwanted robocalls.
[01:04:42.180 --> 01:04:54.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Specifically, we propose to require mobile wireless providers to block text at the network level that purport to be from invalid, unallocated, or unused numbers and numbers on a do not originate list.
[01:04:54.700 --> 01:04:58.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: These texts are highly likely to be illegal, the FCC said.
[01:04:58.310 --> 01:05:02.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, this NPRM, if you're paying attention, it's a notice of proposed rulemaking.
[01:05:03.160 --> 01:05:05.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're seeking public comment on the plan.
[01:05:05.770 --> 01:05:12.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: And once the NPRM is published in the Federal Register, there will be 30 days for comments and another 15 days for replies.
[01:05:13.000 --> 01:05:18.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: And after that, the FCC can draft new requirements from mobile carriers and set up a final vote.
[01:05:18.520 --> 01:05:25.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: The American people are fed up with scam texts, and we need to use every tool we have to do something about it.
[01:05:25.140 --> 01:05:28.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's according to FCC Chairwoman Jessica Rosenwassel.
[01:05:29.160 --> 01:05:33.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Recently, scam text messaging has become a growing threat to consumers' wallets and privacy.
[01:05:33.460 --> 01:05:43.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: More can be done to address this growing problem, and today we are formally starting an effort to take a serious, comprehensive, and fresh look at our policies for fighting unwanted robotechs.
[01:05:45.080 --> 01:05:53.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so it's funny because according to Axios, the vote was finally concluded shortly after a reporter asked why it was taking so long.
[01:05:53.810 --> 01:06:10.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: The Federal Communications Commission approved a long-delayed proposal to crack down on spam text Friday night after Axios asked agency members why it hadn't moved on the issue, noting that they had been awaiting a vote at the FCC for nearly a year.
[01:06:10.500 --> 01:06:15.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: While Friday, the vote was four to nothing, meaning both Democrats and Republicans approved.
[01:06:15.880 --> 01:06:17.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, Rebel, maybe that's good news for you.
[01:06:18.760 --> 01:06:23.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, but then they'll text from different countries, and they'll text from people's other number.
[01:06:23.580 --> 01:06:25.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: Like, they'll text from my number.
[01:06:25.500 --> 01:06:26.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's fake numbers.
[01:06:26.260 --> 01:06:26.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know what I mean?
[01:06:26.770 --> 01:06:27.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's what they're talking about, though.
[01:06:27.900 --> 01:06:28.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's fake numbers.
[01:06:28.840 --> 01:06:30.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Unused numbers or disconnected numbers.
[01:06:31.140 --> 01:06:34.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: They'll use other people's phone numbers as they text from...
[01:06:34.420 --> 01:06:35.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's fake.
[01:06:36.120 --> 01:06:38.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not really those numbers that are texting you.
[01:06:38.350 --> 01:06:39.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's what they're talking about.
[01:06:39.440 --> 01:06:41.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're talking about making that illegal and cracking down on it.
[01:06:41.960 --> 01:06:49.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not sure how they're going to crack down on it exactly, but it's good that they're But when you get a text, it could be from a different phone number.
[01:06:49.520 --> 01:06:52.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: And then when you try and apply, the person's not going to know what you did.
[01:06:53.000 --> 01:06:53.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know what I mean?
[01:06:53.640 --> 01:06:54.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, because you don't reply.
[01:06:54.620 --> 01:06:55.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a fake number.
[01:06:55.900 --> 01:06:56.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: Am I making myself clear?
[01:06:57.440 --> 01:07:01.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: When they text you with a number, that number is not the number they're actually at.
[01:07:01.700 --> 01:07:06.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Whether it's a disconnected number, a number overseas, number of your neighbor, your own number, it's all fake.
[01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:08.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's all basically the same thing.
[01:07:08.230 --> 01:07:14.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think what you're pointing out is you have to compare the content versus the number it's coming from and make a decision there.
[01:07:14.800 --> 01:07:20.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Like a distinction between, is it likely that that number would have this kind of message to me at this juncture?
[01:07:20.810 --> 01:07:24.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: I make it so all texts to me have to pay a dollar to get to me.
[01:07:25.420 --> 01:07:27.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's a sort of... Ask your phone company, though.
[01:07:27.940 --> 01:07:28.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's it.
[01:07:28.660 --> 01:07:29.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: We're speaking of phone companies.
[01:07:30.060 --> 01:07:34.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: T-Mobile gives you 30, like... You know, Sprint is now T-Mobile.
[01:07:34.520 --> 01:07:39.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: And now they give you like 50 gigabytes or megabytes of data, like tethering data.
[01:07:40.180 --> 01:07:43.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: And now they go to only 30 megabytes of tethering data.
[01:07:43.940 --> 01:07:44.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: And you know what they do afterwards?
[01:07:45.200 --> 01:07:49.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: After they throttle that, they give you ISDN speeds afterwards.
[01:07:49.960 --> 01:07:50.380]  Wow.
[01:07:50.460 --> 01:07:52.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, 100 kilobytes.
[01:07:52.640 --> 01:07:55.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's because all those Sprint people jumped on board.
[01:07:55.200 --> 01:07:57.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: And now it's weighing down the entire corporation.
[01:07:57.380 --> 01:07:59.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: Who do you think they give that data to?
[01:08:00.340 --> 01:08:00.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know?
[01:08:01.120 --> 01:08:01.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Think about that.
[01:08:02.180 --> 01:08:03.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: I am thinking about that.
[01:08:03.160 --> 01:08:03.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Who do they give it to?
[01:08:05.040 --> 01:08:06.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just all these other people.
[01:08:06.770 --> 01:08:07.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: Ah, those other people.
[01:08:07.850 --> 01:08:08.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: How dare they?
[01:08:09.420 --> 01:08:10.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, it sucks.
[01:08:10.310 --> 01:08:10.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: I know.
[01:08:11.270 --> 01:08:16.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now they give you 30 megabytes of data, and then they give you 100 kilobytes a second.
[01:08:16.380 --> 01:08:19.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Can you browse the web these days at 100 kilobytes a second?
[01:08:19.900 --> 01:08:22.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I don't want to use my phone to do that anyway.
[01:08:22.340 --> 01:08:26.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: So I just run and skip outside, and I'm happy for the opportunity.
[01:08:27.220 --> 01:08:30.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Alex, you have your finger up and your mouth half open, so I think you have something to say.
[01:08:32.080 --> 01:08:38.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm just so amused by Rebel's reference to 90s technology in terms of ISDN.
[01:08:39.310 --> 01:08:43.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Rebel, do you remember the joke about what ISDN stood for?
[01:08:43.810 --> 01:08:44.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: I know.
[01:08:44.600 --> 01:08:45.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: But go ahead, Rebel.
[01:08:45.640 --> 01:08:46.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: You first.
[01:08:48.510 --> 01:08:49.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's... Oh, I did remember.
[01:08:50.040 --> 01:08:52.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: I remember hearing it on one of the former shows.
[01:08:53.660 --> 01:08:54.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: You have one guess.
[01:08:56.730 --> 01:08:57.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I know it.
[01:08:57.580 --> 01:08:58.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: I know it.
[01:08:58.160 --> 01:08:59.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's not true.
[01:08:59.060 --> 01:09:00.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's not true, whatever it is.
[01:09:00.980 --> 01:09:01.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, that's not it.
[01:09:01.730 --> 01:09:02.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're wrong, Kyle.
[01:09:04.800 --> 01:09:05.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's... I don't know.
[01:09:05.850 --> 01:09:06.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: I forgot.
[01:09:06.700 --> 01:09:07.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: It still does nothing.
[01:09:08.140 --> 01:09:08.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's right.
[01:09:08.880 --> 01:09:09.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: It still does nothing.
[01:09:09.660 --> 01:09:13.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: That was the joke about ISDN, which actually stood for...
[01:09:13.920 --> 01:09:15.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you remember the actual acronym?
[01:09:15.900 --> 01:09:16.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no.
[01:09:16.160 --> 01:09:17.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's what he was trying to think of.
[01:09:17.080 --> 01:09:17.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Nobody knows that.
[01:09:18.270 --> 01:09:18.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: I remember.
[01:09:18.800 --> 01:09:19.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: You don't remember.
[01:09:19.260 --> 01:09:19.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: I remember.
[01:09:19.770 --> 01:09:21.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Integrated Services Digital Network.
[01:09:22.420 --> 01:09:24.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Everybody said it at the same time.
[01:09:24.520 --> 01:09:26.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Alex, why don't you say it so we know what...
[01:09:26.720 --> 01:09:27.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you want to say it, Kyle?
[01:09:27.660 --> 01:09:28.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, I didn't.
[01:09:28.420 --> 01:09:28.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, you didn't.
[01:09:28.960 --> 01:09:31.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so say it so people who don't know will now know.
[01:09:32.100 --> 01:09:37.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: ISDN stood for, and does still stand for, Integrated Services Digital Network.
[01:09:37.060 --> 01:09:39.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was a high-speed tele...
[01:09:39.920 --> 01:09:43.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I guess, high-speed telecommunications lines back in...
[01:09:43.600 --> 01:09:44.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: When was that proposed?
[01:09:45.080 --> 01:09:47.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Probably 1994, 1995, around that time?
[01:09:47.660 --> 01:09:51.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: I just remember getting into a big fight with a corporation about the speeds.
[01:09:51.940 --> 01:09:56.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: We had two channels, and we were using 56...
[01:09:57.660 --> 01:09:58.220]  56...
[01:09:58.220 --> 01:09:59.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: 56K?
[01:09:59.340 --> 01:09:59.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:10:00.040 --> 01:10:01.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's hard to say that.
[01:10:01.560 --> 01:10:02.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: 56K.
[01:10:03.840 --> 01:10:07.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it was Voice Over Data, I think it was...
[01:10:07.180 --> 01:10:10.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: And they claimed when we signed up...
[01:10:10.920 --> 01:10:11.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: PSI, that was the company.
[01:10:12.420 --> 01:10:14.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: When we signed up, they said, yeah, we support that.
[01:10:14.300 --> 01:10:17.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then when we signed up and committed to a year, they said, oh, no, we don't.
[01:10:17.100 --> 01:10:18.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you have to pay a penny a minute.
[01:10:19.060 --> 01:10:26.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: So then we played back the phone call that we recorded, because we suspected something might be up, and put that on our website.
[01:10:26.400 --> 01:10:29.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: And they first threatened to sue us for wiretapping them.
[01:10:29.850 --> 01:10:33.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then we pointed out that we're in a state where you don't need both parties to agree.
[01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:37.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: And shortly after that, our contract was canceled, and we got a refund check.
[01:10:39.040 --> 01:10:40.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: And PSI isn't around anymore, I don't think.
[01:10:40.760 --> 01:10:45.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think that's what I'm getting now with T-Mobile, after I used my 30 megabytes of data.
[01:10:46.120 --> 01:10:46.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: ISDN?
[01:10:46.550 --> 01:10:47.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, welcome back to the 90s.
[01:10:49.380 --> 01:10:50.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, like...
[01:10:50.760 --> 01:10:52.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: Look for Chemical Bank now.
[01:10:52.140 --> 01:10:54.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe you can find a phone that'll make free calls.
[01:10:55.170 --> 01:10:59.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, well, they took those out, because, you know, everybody has cell phones.
[01:11:00.160 --> 01:11:01.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: Chemical Bank, there you go.
[01:11:01.840 --> 01:11:05.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: At least you got the bandwidth that you were paying for at the time.
[01:11:06.540 --> 01:11:07.140]  Mm-hmm.
[01:11:07.640 --> 01:11:08.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean...
[01:11:08.080 --> 01:11:08.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:11:08.680 --> 01:11:13.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Compared to what your original complaint was with some of the data packages, which...
[01:11:13.800 --> 01:11:20.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a private company, these cell phone companies, there's really very little recourse with how they structure all these things.
[01:11:20.140 --> 01:11:39.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: They change them, they give promotions, you promote new promotions, new customer promotions, switching, signing over, new phone deals, all these different sales, like, mechanisms to drive the amount of handsets that are going out the door and potential new subscribers.
[01:11:39.930 --> 01:11:46.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: But quality of service, the ability for people to seek recourse about this stuff, kind of light.
[01:11:46.550 --> 01:11:46.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:11:46.720 --> 01:11:48.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: And they like it that way.
[01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:50.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I want to know if anyone else has noticed this.
[01:11:50.380 --> 01:11:55.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: I got suckered into getting a new handset that's 5G, just because the other one was getting old anyway.
[01:11:55.880 --> 01:12:01.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: But whenever the little 5G icon lights up, I notice my connections are slower.
[01:12:01.680 --> 01:12:09.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know why this is, but it's like, it's hinting at 5G, but it's not really giving me 5G.
[01:12:09.200 --> 01:12:14.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: And since there's no more 3G, what I'm getting is substandard.
[01:12:15.010 --> 01:12:22.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, I sit around for minutes waiting for a page to load, and it says 5G like I'm connected, but I'm really not.
[01:12:22.880 --> 01:12:24.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Is anybody else experiencing that?
[01:12:24.340 --> 01:12:25.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's what I'm experiencing, too.
[01:12:25.810 --> 01:12:26.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry?
[01:12:27.400 --> 01:12:29.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm still experiencing the same thing.
[01:12:29.300 --> 01:12:30.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: You are experiencing that.
[01:12:30.380 --> 01:12:30.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:31.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[01:12:31.500 --> 01:12:32.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: So maybe that's a feature.
[01:12:32.840 --> 01:12:41.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you think about the model for getting this next generation out there, you can just give people...
[01:12:41.590 --> 01:12:42.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like vaporware.
[01:12:42.470 --> 01:12:46.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like, well, you got to give them a handset and give them something to believe in.
[01:12:46.640 --> 01:12:53.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: So they pay for all that, and you just reinvest in getting more people with more handsets so you can bill out.
[01:12:53.390 --> 01:12:56.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: So did I just pay for a little 5G icon on my phone?
[01:12:56.220 --> 01:12:57.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like that's what I'm getting.
[01:12:57.260 --> 01:13:03.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's basically enough bandwidth for you to pay them more money using the bill-paying device that you're paying for.
[01:13:03.230 --> 01:13:06.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, so I can pay my bill with the phone now, and I have enough bandwidth to do that.
[01:13:06.500 --> 01:13:07.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a self-perpetuating device.
[01:13:08.260 --> 01:13:08.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[01:13:08.470 --> 01:13:08.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[01:13:08.890 --> 01:13:09.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:13:09.200 --> 01:13:09.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: I see what you're doing now.
[01:13:09.930 --> 01:13:10.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: But just enough.
[01:13:10.880 --> 01:13:12.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, ask them what the point is.
[01:13:12.760 --> 01:13:14.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, they want 6G now.
[01:13:14.460 --> 01:13:15.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: What is the point?
[01:13:15.640 --> 01:13:16.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can...
[01:13:16.220 --> 01:13:20.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, we can barely maintain conversations with people, and...
[01:13:20.500 --> 01:13:21.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, no, we don't talk to people.
[01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:29.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: And there's zero responsibility for when these technologies are implemented in bad ways, zero...
[01:13:29.230 --> 01:13:38.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Completely absolve themselves of any culpability, yet we are supposed to dump money into every last thing they want to sell us.
[01:13:38.970 --> 01:13:39.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I want?
[01:13:39.510 --> 01:13:42.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: I want my old Omnipoint Ericsson phone to work again.
[01:13:43.010 --> 01:13:50.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the one that made 3 little clicks when you turned it on, and yeah, I can't get it to charge, but I just want to use that again.
[01:13:50.620 --> 01:13:51.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: That was a good phone.
[01:13:51.230 --> 01:13:59.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, well, when you use up your 30 megabytes of data, tethering data, you could use that phone, because that's what it's going to be.
[01:13:59.840 --> 01:14:01.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it'll be just like that.
[01:14:01.810 --> 01:14:02.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Anything else, Rebel?
[01:14:02.620 --> 01:14:03.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because we're going to move on.
[01:14:03.820 --> 01:14:05.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right, what does...
[01:14:05.300 --> 01:14:06.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: You didn't answer the question.
[01:14:06.550 --> 01:14:08.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, you kind of did, but you didn't really answer the question.
[01:14:09.300 --> 01:14:13.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: Can you find out, like, by an 800 or a toll fee number, who it belongs?
[01:14:13.180 --> 01:14:18.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: Like, you know, you used to be able to get a phone, to name and address of a phone number during the NYNEX days.
[01:14:18.340 --> 01:14:27.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: The CNA, yes, the CNA Bureau, up in 518, I don't know if there's a directory, if that's what you're asking.
[01:14:28.360 --> 01:14:31.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: I wish there were, but can you find out...
[01:14:31.340 --> 01:14:32.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: How would you find out a different number?
[01:14:32.770 --> 01:14:35.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: How would you find out a landline or a cell phone number?
[01:14:36.160 --> 01:14:38.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's basically...
[01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:39.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: Sometimes caller ID reveals...
[01:14:39.660 --> 01:14:45.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: Sometimes caller ID reveals information even on a toll-free number, but that can be fake.
[01:14:45.430 --> 01:14:48.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, what method would you use for any line?
[01:14:49.720 --> 01:14:50.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.
[01:14:50.720 --> 01:15:00.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, because of all this Skype and voiceover IP and, you know, Google Voice stuff that these scammers use, just like the texting.
[01:15:00.810 --> 01:15:07.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know how they're going to enforce this texting that, you know, people just put other numbers that people know.
[01:15:07.580 --> 01:15:13.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, like, if your number is area code, 212-279-3400...
[01:15:13.140 --> 01:15:14.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hey, that's the old WBAI number.
[01:15:14.850 --> 01:15:16.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's the old WBAI number.
[01:15:16.300 --> 01:15:17.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: We were on 35th Street.
[01:15:17.260 --> 01:15:18.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can't believe you remember that.
[01:15:19.680 --> 01:15:20.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:15:20.430 --> 01:15:21.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: And 110 Wall Street.
[01:15:21.550 --> 01:15:29.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, yeah, I could text you from 212-279-2333 or something, and it'll make you think that that's...
[01:15:29.470 --> 01:15:30.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know what I mean?
[01:15:30.270 --> 01:15:32.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: That wasn't our phone number at Wall Street, Alex, by the way.
[01:15:32.850 --> 01:15:34.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: We had a different phone number then.
[01:15:34.540 --> 01:15:36.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: That was 209-29, wasn't it?
[01:15:36.550 --> 01:15:38.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, 209-something.
[01:15:38.580 --> 01:15:40.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can't remember our most recent phone number.
[01:15:41.050 --> 01:15:44.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think it was 212-279-3400 or something.
[01:15:44.350 --> 01:15:49.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was 279-3400 when we were at 35th Street on the west side of Manhattan.
[01:15:49.460 --> 01:15:50.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it was two...
[01:15:50.920 --> 01:15:52.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I don't remember the...
[01:15:52.840 --> 01:15:53.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can remember old phone numbers.
[01:15:54.040 --> 01:15:56.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can't remember new phone numbers, even though that's not really new.
[01:15:56.390 --> 01:15:57.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not really new.
[01:15:57.390 --> 01:16:00.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: The Wall Street number was 2950 or 2900 or something?
[01:16:00.700 --> 01:16:01.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it was 220...
[01:16:02.390 --> 01:16:02.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:16:03.580 --> 01:16:05.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think we're still using that exchange.
[01:16:05.380 --> 01:16:06.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think we got it back.
[01:16:07.320 --> 01:16:08.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: 2950, maybe, I think.
[01:16:08.730 --> 01:16:08.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:16:09.720 --> 01:16:10.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:16:10.720 --> 01:16:12.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, what about that phone number?
[01:16:12.390 --> 01:16:17.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Then you get it, and then you say, Hello, I'm calling from the WBAI broom closet.
[01:16:18.090 --> 01:16:19.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Why would you talk like that?
[01:16:19.270 --> 01:16:19.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[01:16:20.080 --> 01:16:20.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[01:16:21.060 --> 01:16:25.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I'm just saying that's the kind of example that Rebel was going to give.
[01:16:25.890 --> 01:16:28.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was just doing an impression of him doing an impression of making a prank call.
[01:16:28.960 --> 01:16:30.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that does sound like him doing an impression.
[01:16:30.580 --> 01:16:30.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:16:30.730 --> 01:16:31.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[01:16:32.540 --> 01:16:35.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: But what's the new WBAI number in Brooklyn?
[01:16:35.550 --> 01:16:37.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think we're using the same exchange.
[01:16:37.700 --> 01:16:39.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's 212-209...
[01:16:41.230 --> 01:16:42.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: I almost...
[01:16:42.080 --> 01:16:43.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: 209-2900.
[01:16:43.700 --> 01:16:46.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: I reached back into my brain and got it.
[01:16:46.120 --> 01:16:46.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[01:16:46.590 --> 01:16:48.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: But 212-209...
[01:16:48.550 --> 01:16:49.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: Excuse me.
[01:16:50.230 --> 01:16:51.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: 212-20...
[01:16:51.080 --> 01:16:51.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to say this phone number.
[01:16:52.090 --> 01:16:55.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: 212-209-2950 is our pledge line.
[01:16:55.700 --> 01:16:56.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's the pledge line.
[01:16:56.350 --> 01:16:57.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's all coming back to me now.
[01:16:57.580 --> 01:16:58.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's because we have two now.
[01:16:58.720 --> 01:17:02.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: When we were on 35th Street, it was 212-279-3400.
[01:17:02.970 --> 01:17:04.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know anything before that.
[01:17:04.380 --> 01:17:05.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: I wasn't around then.
[01:17:05.720 --> 01:17:07.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, yeah, phone numbers change.
[01:17:07.800 --> 01:17:10.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I can remember my phone number as a child.
[01:17:10.160 --> 01:17:11.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can remember my grandparents' phone number.
[01:17:11.840 --> 01:17:13.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: That stays with me forever.
[01:17:13.260 --> 01:17:13.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: What are those?
[01:17:13.890 --> 01:17:15.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not going to tell you that.
[01:17:15.350 --> 01:17:15.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: What are those?
[01:17:15.390 --> 01:17:19.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Even back in the 1970s, I don't want you social engineering me.
[01:17:20.920 --> 01:17:21.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: No.
[01:17:23.180 --> 01:17:30.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, but if you TNA that number, if you get the number, like, oh, that number is in 212-279.
[01:17:30.460 --> 01:17:31.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, that's Lower Manhattan.
[01:17:32.080 --> 01:17:33.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, that's not Brooklyn.
[01:17:33.580 --> 01:17:34.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know what I mean?
[01:17:34.800 --> 01:17:35.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah.
[01:17:35.470 --> 01:17:36.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, 212 would tell you that.
[01:17:36.880 --> 01:17:44.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: So he tells me you want to know because we're using one of these numbers and you're wanting our advice on how you can unmask one of the numbers we use.
[01:17:44.200 --> 01:17:44.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, 802 is our...
[01:17:44.920 --> 01:17:45.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're not in Vermont.
[01:17:46.140 --> 01:17:46.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Vermont, Erica.
[01:17:46.970 --> 01:17:47.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: We are not in Vermont.
[01:17:48.000 --> 01:17:49.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah, that's the other thing.
[01:17:49.500 --> 01:17:50.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Nice try.
[01:17:50.460 --> 01:17:56.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you TNA that number, 802-321-HECK, 321-whatever.
[01:17:57.160 --> 01:17:59.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, and people don't know what you mean by CNA.
[01:17:59.720 --> 01:18:01.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was customer name and address is what it stood for.
[01:18:02.430 --> 01:18:05.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: And basically, it was only for phone company employees.
[01:18:05.140 --> 01:18:07.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it was basically a reverse lookup.
[01:18:07.420 --> 01:18:08.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: They would call that number.
[01:18:08.460 --> 01:18:12.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: And the one in Albany, the 518 number, you'd have to give a code.
[01:18:12.380 --> 01:18:15.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that code would be handed out to hackers on a monthly basis, I think.
[01:18:15.940 --> 01:18:17.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: And we would just call that number.
[01:18:17.680 --> 01:18:20.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I don't know why we were looking up other phone numbers.
[01:18:20.200 --> 01:18:21.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: But back then, you couldn't do that.
[01:18:22.160 --> 01:18:25.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: The other way of doing this was something called the Kohl's Directory.
[01:18:26.460 --> 01:18:29.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: Massive, huge, hardcover books that you'd find in some libraries.
[01:18:30.300 --> 01:18:32.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it was a reverse phone book.
[01:18:32.380 --> 01:18:34.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you'd simply look up numbers and there'd be a name next to them.
[01:18:35.460 --> 01:18:36.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: I remember that.
[01:18:36.340 --> 01:18:37.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: I still have a couple, actually.
[01:18:38.460 --> 01:18:44.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you reverse number your number, 802-321 number, it's going to say it belongs to Google.
[01:18:44.500 --> 01:18:45.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: Probably, because everything does.
[01:18:46.000 --> 01:18:47.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's by design.
[01:18:47.390 --> 01:18:51.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Rebel, I see that you're calling from a private number.
[01:18:52.260 --> 01:18:53.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: You blocked your...
[01:18:53.300 --> 01:18:54.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: How, we had you block your number to a...
[01:18:54.760 --> 01:18:55.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, wait, it's not a toll-free number.
[01:18:56.010 --> 01:18:57.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: We have a toll-free number, but he called the other number.
[01:18:57.850 --> 01:18:59.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is pretty rich coming from you.
[01:18:59.590 --> 01:18:59.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[01:19:00.090 --> 01:19:01.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, maybe you should be a little bit more honest.
[01:19:02.240 --> 01:19:03.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: What recourse do we have?
[01:19:03.540 --> 01:19:08.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: We can dial star 69, but then we get a message saying we can't complete the call, and I think it might even charge us.
[01:19:08.840 --> 01:19:12.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: Right, but you can't dial star 69 on a, uh, on that type of voiceover, I think.
[01:19:13.970 --> 01:19:14.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Damn it!
[01:19:14.620 --> 01:19:15.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: The other thing I want to do...
[01:19:15.580 --> 01:19:17.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: All the good things are going away.
[01:19:17.540 --> 01:19:19.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Actually, star 69 was never really there.
[01:19:21.050 --> 01:19:23.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: I wanted to make phone calls from my computer.
[01:19:23.800 --> 01:19:25.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, like, using a voiceover...
[01:19:25.800 --> 01:19:26.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: It never happened.
[01:19:26.620 --> 01:19:27.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's impossible.
[01:19:27.460 --> 01:19:34.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're going to get an ATA, uh, adapter, for analog phone to, uh, make a, a SIP device.
[01:19:34.220 --> 01:19:35.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know anything about VoIP.
[01:19:35.730 --> 01:19:36.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: But yeah, is that what you want to do?
[01:19:37.080 --> 01:19:37.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Voice over IP?
[01:19:37.760 --> 01:19:38.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know either, but...
[01:19:38.700 --> 01:19:47.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: You need a direct dial-in, the ID number, and then you need a, a SIP profile, and then you, you got to get the ATA, and then, uh, get a service, and off you go.
[01:19:47.550 --> 01:19:48.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you're on the, on the blockchain, you can do that.
[01:19:48.850 --> 01:19:49.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:19:49.590 --> 01:19:49.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:19:50.430 --> 01:19:50.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: Wait a minute.
[01:19:51.180 --> 01:19:52.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: I, can't I use Google Voice to do this?
[01:19:53.180 --> 01:20:01.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you could just, uh, you could just, uh, you could just, you just tell Google, make it work, and they'll come to your house, the Google man will install it, and you'll be fine.
[01:20:01.840 --> 01:20:03.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: You say, hey, Google!
[01:20:04.440 --> 01:20:05.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then they'll answer you.
[01:20:06.000 --> 01:20:06.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yep.
[01:20:07.440 --> 01:20:09.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's, that's how you get things done.
[01:20:09.380 --> 01:20:09.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: I keep it.
[01:20:09.700 --> 01:20:11.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: I like to, you know, like an operator.
[01:20:12.980 --> 01:20:13.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: Like an operator.
[01:20:13.970 --> 01:20:14.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: Operator.
[01:20:14.780 --> 01:20:15.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Are there still operators?
[01:20:16.620 --> 01:20:18.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can't remember the last time I talked to an operator.
[01:20:18.590 --> 01:20:18.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know what?
[01:20:18.700 --> 01:20:19.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: There are.
[01:20:19.180 --> 01:20:25.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: I went to a place with a phone with that had Verizon, and I dialed zero, and it says, I give the recording.
[01:20:25.390 --> 01:20:27.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's, oh, you know, I should record it.
[01:20:27.270 --> 01:20:27.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: I should record it.
[01:20:28.140 --> 01:20:28.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: You should record everything.
[01:20:29.050 --> 01:20:32.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: But anyway, something to the effect of, yeah, something like Evan Dorbell does.
[01:20:32.420 --> 01:20:33.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I'm so happy.
[01:20:33.920 --> 01:20:37.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: The Evan Dorbell recordings are great, and I'm so happy we recorded all of our shows.
[01:20:38.180 --> 01:20:45.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: Not only this, you know, off the hook, but shows before that into the 1980s, and all the sounds of the phone.
[01:20:45.310 --> 01:20:48.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: It just has changed so much, and the network has changed so much.
[01:20:49.280 --> 01:20:53.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, people would not even be aware of this were there not these recordings.
[01:20:53.810 --> 01:20:55.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was such a magical time.
[01:20:55.880 --> 01:21:07.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, and the way it's clipped and connected and all, and I mean, I really admire Evan Dorbell, because he tells you exactly why certain sounds are happening, and, you know, it gets technical of why it connects this way.
[01:21:07.800 --> 01:21:09.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: And he's got a really good voice, too.
[01:21:09.300 --> 01:21:13.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: He's got a radio voice that, you know, you don't cringe when you hear him explaining these things.
[01:21:13.720 --> 01:21:15.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: So that's, yeah, it's amazing.
[01:21:15.800 --> 01:21:17.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: You can find these, just look online.
[01:21:17.460 --> 01:21:18.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Evan Dorbell, it's spelled the way it sounds.
[01:21:19.080 --> 01:21:25.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, Evan Dorbell, he has a website, a YouTube page, and it is, it's all of phone sounds from the 70s and before my time, and, you know.
[01:21:26.220 --> 01:21:29.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, YouTube is for video, Rebel.
[01:21:29.270 --> 01:21:30.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: YouTube is for video.
[01:21:30.180 --> 01:21:30.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, but he has audio.
[01:21:31.090 --> 01:21:32.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but I don't see how...
[01:21:32.680 --> 01:21:33.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: It just sounds.
[01:21:33.550 --> 01:21:35.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: How could you use YouTube just for audio?
[01:21:35.300 --> 01:21:36.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: It seems like a waste.
[01:21:37.140 --> 01:21:37.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: You're doing it.
[01:21:39.520 --> 01:21:40.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well played, Rebel.
[01:21:41.120 --> 01:21:41.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well played.
[01:21:42.880 --> 01:21:46.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, so when you call the operator now, you've got...
[01:21:46.940 --> 01:21:48.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, I think it's something...
[01:21:48.380 --> 01:21:48.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know if you...
[01:21:48.840 --> 01:21:50.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Damn it, I forgot we were on one.
[01:21:50.820 --> 01:21:55.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think the operators enjoy the company, definitely, these days.
[01:21:55.660 --> 01:21:58.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: There are less of them working in those...
[01:21:58.140 --> 01:22:01.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, I call the operator and I get the same number, but let me tell you what happens.
[01:22:01.680 --> 01:22:03.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't think they even save Verizon anymore.
[01:22:03.380 --> 01:22:04.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think they save something very effective.
[01:22:04.700 --> 01:22:08.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, last I heard, it was an operator and information in the same place.
[01:22:08.770 --> 01:22:10.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if they charge for information anymore.
[01:22:10.420 --> 01:22:11.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe they don't.
[01:22:11.230 --> 01:22:15.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: But back in the day when it was a TSPS operator, there'd be a little tone before the operator picked up.
[01:22:16.050 --> 01:22:17.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's how you knew it was operating.
[01:22:17.970 --> 01:22:18.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it was cool.
[01:22:18.970 --> 01:22:20.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we didn't even play that.
[01:22:20.460 --> 01:22:21.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hold on.
[01:22:21.140 --> 01:22:21.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: I can play that.
[01:22:21.960 --> 01:22:22.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, you can play that.
[01:22:22.660 --> 01:22:26.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: But she had something known as backhold, which meant that if you hung up, she was still there.
[01:22:26.880 --> 01:22:27.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, she was still there.
[01:22:27.730 --> 01:22:28.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yep, I remember that.
[01:22:28.660 --> 01:22:31.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: Scared that crap out of people who were up to something.
[01:22:33.200 --> 01:22:38.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: My challenge is find an operator at Verizon for their headquarters.
[01:22:38.390 --> 01:22:39.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, wait a minute.
[01:22:39.120 --> 01:22:41.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: A switchboard operator for their business.
[01:22:42.120 --> 01:22:42.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[01:22:42.640 --> 01:22:43.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: Are you going to play it, Rebels?
[01:22:43.890 --> 01:22:44.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because we're going to go after this.
[01:22:45.000 --> 01:22:45.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: I've got to find the part.
[01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:46.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hold on.
[01:22:46.300 --> 01:22:46.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: You've got to find the part.
[01:22:47.000 --> 01:22:48.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: You should have it queued up when you call us.
[01:22:50.040 --> 01:22:50.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hear something.
[01:22:52.540 --> 01:22:54.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's Rebel when he's 10.
[01:22:54.470 --> 01:22:54.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: Wait a minute.
[01:22:55.040 --> 01:22:55.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's a 10-year-old Rebel.
[01:22:57.120 --> 01:22:58.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: Wait, I'm calling now?
[01:22:58.310 --> 01:22:58.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: Wait a minute.
[01:23:05.340 --> 01:23:06.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, let's...
[01:23:06.300 --> 01:23:06.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hold on.
[01:23:06.770 --> 01:23:07.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Let me...
[01:23:08.740 --> 01:23:10.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: He's basically the same person he was back then.
[01:23:11.080 --> 01:23:11.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[01:23:12.010 --> 01:23:12.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hold on.
[01:23:13.080 --> 01:23:13.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[01:23:13.840 --> 01:23:14.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hold on.
[01:23:15.120 --> 01:23:15.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: Just one.
[01:23:16.660 --> 01:23:17.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, here it is.
[01:23:18.090 --> 01:23:19.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: Calling the operator in 1980.
[01:23:21.280 --> 01:23:23.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is going to be the operator.
[01:23:24.880 --> 01:23:25.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Here we go.
[01:23:40.760 --> 01:23:41.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: 412.
[01:23:41.500 --> 01:23:42.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can tell you that right now.
[01:23:43.360 --> 01:23:43.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, of course.
[01:23:45.080 --> 01:23:46.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Back then, I didn't hear the...
[01:23:48.620 --> 01:23:50.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: I heard it, but it was very far away.
[01:23:50.760 --> 01:23:52.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's much better recordings of that.
[01:23:52.240 --> 01:23:53.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: But I'm glad you saved these.
[01:23:53.580 --> 01:23:55.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: These are important to have, just so you can remember.
[01:23:55.920 --> 01:23:59.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I wish more people saved, not just photographs, but recordings as well.
[01:23:59.480 --> 01:24:02.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because they become very valuable when things change.
[01:24:02.880 --> 01:24:03.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: The Young Rebel phone.
[01:24:03.720 --> 01:24:05.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: One thing to call ATT doesn't work anymore.
[01:24:06.240 --> 01:24:07.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry to hear that.
[01:24:07.600 --> 01:24:08.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: That was fun.
[01:24:09.820 --> 01:24:13.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, to reach AT&T customer service, please press one or whatever.
[01:24:13.860 --> 01:24:14.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[01:24:14.660 --> 01:24:16.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the magic just isn't...
[01:24:16.200 --> 01:24:16.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not the same.
[01:24:17.060 --> 01:24:17.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: But there's other magic.
[01:24:18.160 --> 01:24:18.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:24:18.960 --> 01:24:21.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: When you dial the AT&T operator, wait...
[01:24:23.580 --> 01:24:24.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: What happened, Rebel?
[01:24:24.500 --> 01:24:25.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: Or press nine or whatever.
[01:24:25.560 --> 01:24:26.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: Did you get a call waiting?
[01:24:26.440 --> 01:24:27.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: For me.
[01:24:27.300 --> 01:24:28.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you have a call waiting coming in?
[01:24:28.680 --> 01:24:30.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: You suddenly went blank for a second.
[01:24:31.720 --> 01:24:32.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: No.
[01:24:32.320 --> 01:24:35.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, maybe because I'm on Voice over IP or something.
[01:24:35.180 --> 01:24:36.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: Because I'm calling from Google Voice.
[01:24:36.580 --> 01:24:37.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, maybe because your connection sucks.
[01:24:37.760 --> 01:24:38.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I guess that's possible.
[01:24:39.020 --> 01:24:40.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Rebel, closing thoughts here, because we've got to move on.
[01:24:40.820 --> 01:24:42.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Other people are trying to call us.
[01:24:42.880 --> 01:24:50.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right, so when you call AT&T, it says, please hold for an operator.
[01:24:50.600 --> 01:24:54.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: I should record it and just say it next week or tell you next week.
[01:24:55.220 --> 01:24:55.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Fair enough.
[01:24:56.920 --> 01:24:57.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Good talking to you.
[01:24:58.200 --> 01:24:58.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Take care.
[01:24:58.860 --> 01:24:59.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bye.
[01:24:59.300 --> 01:25:01.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, that was Rebel, the esteemed Rebel.
[01:25:03.180 --> 01:25:05.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Always busy, always up to somebody interesting.
[01:25:05.540 --> 01:25:06.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Always, always.
[01:25:06.700 --> 01:25:10.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: And now World Traveler as well, so I'm impressed by that.
[01:25:10.220 --> 01:25:14.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: But our phone number, 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK.
[01:25:15.320 --> 01:25:17.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: And we'd love to hear what you have to say.
[01:25:17.760 --> 01:25:18.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Any thoughts?
[01:25:18.440 --> 01:25:21.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: You don't have to know everything about the phone system or any system for that matter.
[01:25:22.240 --> 01:25:24.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: We just have to have a voice and an opinion.
[01:25:25.320 --> 01:25:26.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do we have a call?
[01:25:27.940 --> 01:25:29.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's still available.
[01:25:29.760 --> 01:25:30.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's still available.
[01:25:30.820 --> 01:25:32.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Operators here are standing by.
[01:25:32.340 --> 01:25:36.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: It takes time for our voice to be processed through the Internet and then sent out.
[01:25:36.500 --> 01:25:41.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, yeah, 802-321-4225 is our phone number.
[01:25:42.620 --> 01:25:43.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I hear the phone ringing.
[01:25:44.040 --> 01:25:44.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Go ahead.
[01:25:45.320 --> 01:25:46.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: You are...
[01:25:46.220 --> 01:25:48.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello, you are on off-look overtime.
[01:25:48.060 --> 01:25:48.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: Go ahead.
[01:25:49.820 --> 01:25:50.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi.
[01:25:50.420 --> 01:25:50.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello.
[01:25:50.840 --> 01:25:52.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm Alex's sister.
[01:25:53.040 --> 01:25:53.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry.
[01:25:53.720 --> 01:25:54.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Say that again.
[01:25:54.280 --> 01:25:54.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're what?
[01:25:55.620 --> 01:25:57.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm Alex's sister.
[01:25:57.300 --> 01:25:58.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Neon Samurai.
[01:25:59.320 --> 01:26:00.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: You are...
[01:26:00.280 --> 01:26:00.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wait, hold on.
[01:26:00.740 --> 01:26:01.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's our Alex?
[01:26:01.700 --> 01:26:02.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're his sister?
[01:26:02.700 --> 01:26:02.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:26:03.220 --> 01:26:03.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, my God.
[01:26:03.740 --> 01:26:04.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: He's also my Alex.
[01:26:04.900 --> 01:26:05.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm so sorry.
[01:26:06.320 --> 01:26:07.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: What you must have gone through.
[01:26:08.000 --> 01:26:09.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm here in the hurricane.
[01:26:10.160 --> 01:26:11.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[01:26:11.120 --> 01:26:11.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hold on a second.
[01:26:11.780 --> 01:26:12.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hold on.
[01:26:12.180 --> 01:26:12.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hold on.
[01:26:12.680 --> 01:26:13.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Everybody, hold on.
[01:26:13.480 --> 01:26:19.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Not only are you Alex's sister, which is dramatic enough, but you're in the middle of a hurricane now?
[01:26:19.580 --> 01:26:20.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Don't do it.
[01:26:20.560 --> 01:26:21.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
[01:26:21.420 --> 01:26:22.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Have you heard of the hurricane?
[01:26:22.880 --> 01:26:24.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: I have heard of the hurricane.
[01:26:24.520 --> 01:26:25.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: This would be Ian, right?
[01:26:25.520 --> 01:26:25.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
[01:26:26.000 --> 01:26:27.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: I live in it.
[01:26:29.320 --> 01:26:30.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: What city are you near?
[01:26:32.020 --> 01:26:35.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: I live on Pine Island in Florida.
[01:26:36.560 --> 01:26:37.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my goodness.
[01:26:37.400 --> 01:26:38.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Outside of Cape Coral.
[01:26:39.260 --> 01:26:41.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: So the very hardest hit.
[01:26:41.920 --> 01:26:43.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: And were you...
[01:26:43.300 --> 01:26:44.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're a scam right now.
[01:26:44.380 --> 01:26:46.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: Were you told to evacuate?
[01:26:47.040 --> 01:26:47.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[01:26:48.040 --> 01:26:48.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: So we did.
[01:26:49.100 --> 01:26:49.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you did?
[01:26:49.980 --> 01:26:54.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're in Lehigh, which is a bit further inland.
[01:26:54.120 --> 01:26:57.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we're still experiencing the effects of it.
[01:26:57.460 --> 01:26:59.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we don't know what happens to our house yet.
[01:27:00.280 --> 01:27:00.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[01:27:00.880 --> 01:27:03.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Of course, our thoughts are with you there.
[01:27:04.040 --> 01:27:11.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: But I'm glad you got out because, yeah, being on an island or something like this, they say this is the most powerful storm to ever hit Florida, ever.
[01:27:11.880 --> 01:27:17.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: And when I was watching it before, it was one mile short of a Category 5.
[01:27:17.520 --> 01:27:20.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: There were gusts up to 190 miles an hour.
[01:27:21.440 --> 01:27:21.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:27:22.180 --> 01:27:22.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is...
[01:27:22.860 --> 01:27:25.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's biblical in proportion.
[01:27:25.820 --> 01:27:26.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's pretty gnarly.
[01:27:26.120 --> 01:27:26.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Can you hear it?
[01:27:26.660 --> 01:27:29.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm actually standing outside, so you can hear it.
[01:27:30.680 --> 01:27:32.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you're on a cell phone, right?
[01:27:33.520 --> 01:27:34.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm on a cell phone.
[01:27:34.760 --> 01:27:41.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: One of the annoying things about cell phones these days, they mute out things like that so that you don't hear background sound like a landline would.
[01:27:41.560 --> 01:27:43.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: But more importantly, you shouldn't be outside.
[01:27:43.420 --> 01:27:44.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please go back inside.
[01:27:44.780 --> 01:27:48.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: We don't want anybody getting wet on our account.
[01:27:48.600 --> 01:27:49.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm safe.
[01:27:49.400 --> 01:27:50.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm good.
[01:27:50.120 --> 01:27:50.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm good.
[01:27:50.460 --> 01:27:53.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm in like a little like alcove of the house.
[01:27:53.360 --> 01:27:56.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I wouldn't have just walked outside for no reason.
[01:27:56.500 --> 01:27:57.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, well...
[01:27:57.220 --> 01:27:59.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's cooler out here because we don't have power.
[01:27:59.600 --> 01:28:00.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[01:28:00.040 --> 01:28:01.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think anybody does right now.
[01:28:02.640 --> 01:28:04.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, I don't think anybody does.
[01:28:04.520 --> 01:28:06.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: So how are you getting your information?
[01:28:08.100 --> 01:28:14.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: I literally just called Alex's wife, Effie, and she read us the Internet.
[01:28:15.600 --> 01:28:16.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Wow, so...
[01:28:16.860 --> 01:28:17.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Is that how you...
[01:28:17.780 --> 01:28:18.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Really?
[01:28:18.380 --> 01:28:19.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's crazy, Rachel.
[01:28:19.720 --> 01:28:21.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, okay, here's my question.
[01:28:21.880 --> 01:28:22.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're on a cell phone.
[01:28:22.960 --> 01:28:24.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Your cell phone uses a battery.
[01:28:24.500 --> 01:28:26.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you have a plan for when that battery runs low?
[01:28:27.760 --> 01:28:29.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: I do have my car here.
[01:28:29.920 --> 01:28:30.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[01:28:30.800 --> 01:28:36.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: And my car is full of gas, so I can get in the car and charge all our stuff.
[01:28:37.180 --> 01:28:38.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Plus, I have my computer.
[01:28:38.680 --> 01:28:40.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: I have another battery backup.
[01:28:41.840 --> 01:28:45.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Is your car parked inside or outside?
[01:28:46.680 --> 01:28:47.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's outside.
[01:28:47.980 --> 01:28:53.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, well, that's probably not safe for your car, but then again, running your car while you're inside is also not safe, so I guess it's a choice.
[01:28:54.060 --> 01:28:54.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[01:28:54.760 --> 01:28:55.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, exactly.
[01:28:56.080 --> 01:28:59.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, Rachel, let me offer you this bit of advice.
[01:28:59.440 --> 01:29:01.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: You don't have to turn the car on to charge the phone.
[01:29:02.060 --> 01:29:18.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can just turn the ignition on, charge the phone from the car's battery, make sure the car doesn't deplete the battery entirely, and then turn the car on, because then the alternator of the car will recharge the battery that you used in charging your phone.
[01:29:18.800 --> 01:29:19.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[01:29:19.160 --> 01:29:21.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Alex, the mechanic, I had no idea you had such skills.
[01:29:21.860 --> 01:29:22.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:29:22.160 --> 01:29:23.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Am I right there, Kyle?
[01:29:23.440 --> 01:29:27.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Kyle's more mechanically inclined than I am, but I think that would be the best course of action, right?
[01:29:28.100 --> 01:29:29.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is Alex talking in the background.
[01:29:29.420 --> 01:29:32.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's some big brother advice there, or brother.
[01:29:33.060 --> 01:29:35.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's my literal big brother.
[01:29:35.400 --> 01:29:36.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or little brother.
[01:29:36.000 --> 01:29:39.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I don't know which, but yeah, I'm not assuming, but...
[01:29:39.180 --> 01:29:40.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: They could be twins, you don't know.
[01:29:42.680 --> 01:29:43.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a sound plan.
[01:29:44.180 --> 01:29:48.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you've got to stay safe and try little tricks like that, maybe.
[01:29:49.260 --> 01:29:52.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow, so what is the weather like right now?
[01:29:52.500 --> 01:29:54.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Is it extremely windy, rainy?
[01:29:54.320 --> 01:29:54.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Is there a flood?
[01:29:55.740 --> 01:29:57.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's extremely windy.
[01:29:57.560 --> 01:30:03.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not flooding quite that much where we are, where we live.
[01:30:05.200 --> 01:30:09.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Our house, from what we've read and found out, is okay.
[01:30:10.500 --> 01:30:13.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: But everywhere around it basically is terrible.
[01:30:14.900 --> 01:30:15.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[01:30:16.060 --> 01:30:22.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I just hope people heed the warnings and, you know, the biggest threat...
[01:30:22.780 --> 01:30:28.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, because the warnings were saying that the storm was going north of us.
[01:30:28.680 --> 01:30:28.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mm-hmm.
[01:30:29.460 --> 01:30:36.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: So there is going to be a lot of people who are here who shouldn't have been or...
[01:30:36.220 --> 01:30:37.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: They thought one thing...
[01:30:37.340 --> 01:30:38.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: ...didn't have time to tell.
[01:30:38.100 --> 01:30:46.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the problem is the storm may go north, but it's got, you know, it's got the winds that follow it that extend much, much further.
[01:30:47.180 --> 01:30:47.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:30:47.660 --> 01:30:56.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: And also, what's going to happen is there's going to be a tremendous swell of water, and they're talking about tides up to 18 feet above normal.
[01:30:56.700 --> 01:30:57.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can't even conceive of that.
[01:30:58.000 --> 01:30:58.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:30:58.900 --> 01:30:59.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:30:59.380 --> 01:31:10.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, I live on an island down here about the size of Manhattan, and it seems, from what we can tell, the south end is underwater.
[01:31:11.440 --> 01:31:12.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[01:31:12.080 --> 01:31:16.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: I work on another island, also about the size of Manhattan.
[01:31:16.500 --> 01:31:19.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just Primo Island size, apparently.
[01:31:19.980 --> 01:31:20.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[01:31:20.260 --> 01:31:31.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and that is the one that sort of goes around the island that I live on, has the most beautiful beaches, it's a wonderful place, but, of course, they got hit first.
[01:31:32.400 --> 01:31:34.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: And there is extreme flooding.
[01:31:34.740 --> 01:31:40.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: I haven't been able to get in contact with the few people I know who live there, so it's pretty scary.
[01:31:41.440 --> 01:31:55.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I, you know, since we all know each other here, if you need help getting in touch with anybody, just ask Alex, and he'll either do it himself or ask us to help, but we can certainly help try and track people down.
[01:31:55.200 --> 01:31:55.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:31:55.220 --> 01:31:56.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I know, I know.
[01:31:56.320 --> 01:31:57.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: I always have my brother.
[01:31:58.140 --> 01:31:58.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[01:31:59.500 --> 01:32:00.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's right.
[01:32:00.480 --> 01:32:02.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he's mostly okay.
[01:32:02.340 --> 01:32:03.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he's all right.
[01:32:04.680 --> 01:32:05.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:32:05.020 --> 01:32:10.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we have the best wife, also, who read the Internet to us when we couldn't.
[01:32:10.620 --> 01:32:11.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: We couldn't access it.
[01:32:13.820 --> 01:32:15.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Rachel, how's the dog?
[01:32:15.360 --> 01:32:18.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do Rachel and her husband have a wonderful dog?
[01:32:18.760 --> 01:32:21.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: And how's he handling the storm?
[01:32:21.940 --> 01:32:23.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: The dogs are fine.
[01:32:23.520 --> 01:32:23.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know what?
[01:32:23.980 --> 01:32:28.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Waylon is terrible when there's thunder, but a hurricane, he's fine.
[01:32:29.100 --> 01:32:29.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's no thunder.
[01:32:30.120 --> 01:32:32.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, sometimes there's thunder in a hurricane, so tell him that.
[01:32:33.000 --> 01:32:34.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, it could be a surprise.
[01:32:34.860 --> 01:32:35.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I won't tell him that.
[01:32:38.560 --> 01:32:50.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, it's insanely scary, Rachel, and I'm just so glad that you were able to evacuate, get out of there, and, you know, and I hope that you stay entirely safe where you are.
[01:32:50.860 --> 01:32:56.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think just kind of hunker down, read a book, and, you know, hope for the best of me.
[01:32:56.780 --> 01:33:00.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you have any plans to try to go back tomorrow or the next day?
[01:33:02.780 --> 01:33:04.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Possibly the next day.
[01:33:04.860 --> 01:33:11.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: The one road that leads to our island, we know for sure, is basically underwater.
[01:33:12.060 --> 01:33:15.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's part of the ocean at the moment.
[01:33:17.060 --> 01:33:20.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: So we're not sure when we're going to be able to get back there.
[01:33:21.300 --> 01:33:22.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't know.
[01:33:22.280 --> 01:33:35.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think the important thing is to not rush it, you know, to wait for things to calm down, for the water to go down, and, you know, your house is probably fine, but there's nothing you can do about it either way, so...
[01:33:35.080 --> 01:33:35.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
[01:33:35.920 --> 01:33:37.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, it is just...
[01:33:38.660 --> 01:33:50.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're here with our landlady, who is wonderful, Connie, and her granddaughter, who is six, and I was trying to tell her about patience earlier, how it's a practice.
[01:33:51.200 --> 01:33:51.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[01:33:51.520 --> 01:33:52.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: To practice it.
[01:33:52.940 --> 01:33:54.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, this is a great exercise.
[01:33:56.000 --> 01:34:00.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, just, like, drawing or riding a horse or a bike, you've got to practice it.
[01:34:01.120 --> 01:34:03.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we're practicing patience.
[01:34:04.100 --> 01:34:06.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, well, it's going to get dark soon.
[01:34:06.620 --> 01:34:10.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if you have a generator, but hopefully you have lots of food.
[01:34:10.960 --> 01:34:12.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hopefully you're able to...
[01:34:12.240 --> 01:34:15.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's just one of these things that brings people together.
[01:34:15.860 --> 01:34:17.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you'll experience things like you...
[01:34:17.740 --> 01:34:18.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Have you been through hurricanes before?
[01:34:20.180 --> 01:34:23.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, just Hurricane Sandy, because I'm a New Yorker.
[01:34:23.200 --> 01:34:24.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[01:34:25.660 --> 01:34:26.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: So...
[01:34:26.260 --> 01:34:31.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: My husband went through Charlie, which was similar, but, like, a quarter of the size.
[01:34:32.280 --> 01:34:32.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:34:33.640 --> 01:34:35.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, this is massive.
[01:34:35.400 --> 01:34:36.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is huge.
[01:34:36.180 --> 01:34:38.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, as I follow what he...
[01:34:39.080 --> 01:34:43.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: He knows best in that situation, in that all situation.
[01:34:44.860 --> 01:34:45.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, um...
[01:34:46.300 --> 01:34:47.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, you better come out of there.
[01:34:49.680 --> 01:34:50.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I...
[01:34:50.560 --> 01:34:56.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: He knows when to run, and we did the right thing in this time.
[01:34:56.700 --> 01:35:03.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, the other thing, of course, to remember is, you know, possible falling trees, live electrical lines, all kinds of hazards out there.
[01:35:03.700 --> 01:35:08.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, definitely take your time, wait for the all-clear before you venture out at all.
[01:35:09.100 --> 01:35:09.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:35:09.960 --> 01:35:12.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: And just try and enjoy the uniqueness of the situation.
[01:35:12.400 --> 01:35:18.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: As long as everybody is safe and you have things to do inside, just maybe marvel at what nature can do.
[01:35:19.620 --> 01:35:20.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, um...
[01:35:20.040 --> 01:35:20.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:35:21.280 --> 01:35:22.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: She's pretty powerful.
[01:35:22.880 --> 01:35:23.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: I...
[01:35:23.060 --> 01:35:24.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: I won't...
[01:35:24.800 --> 01:35:25.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:35:25.520 --> 01:35:27.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't f*ck with her, but I won't...
[01:35:27.540 --> 01:35:27.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[01:35:27.900 --> 01:35:28.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not even sure.
[01:35:29.900 --> 01:35:30.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wise advice.
[01:35:32.420 --> 01:35:32.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:35:34.480 --> 01:35:34.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[01:35:35.020 --> 01:35:36.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, anything, uh, anything else?
[01:35:36.740 --> 01:35:37.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, Alex, go ahead.
[01:35:37.880 --> 01:35:38.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I...
[01:35:38.400 --> 01:35:39.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, Rachel, I have...
[01:35:39.400 --> 01:35:41.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have mom now on the phone with me.
[01:35:41.920 --> 01:35:43.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: And she told me...
[01:35:43.540 --> 01:35:43.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, boy.
[01:35:43.800 --> 01:35:53.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: ...to tell you that she tried to call the non-emergency police number in your town to find out, you know, what was happening on your street.
[01:35:53.440 --> 01:35:53.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, cool.
[01:35:53.620 --> 01:35:54.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: And what happened, mom?
[01:35:56.580 --> 01:35:57.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: They didn't answer.
[01:35:57.900 --> 01:35:59.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, very anticlimactic.
[01:35:59.540 --> 01:35:59.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Sorry.
[01:36:00.540 --> 01:36:00.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:36:00.980 --> 01:36:01.040]  Oh.
[01:36:02.260 --> 01:36:02.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:36:03.340 --> 01:36:03.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:36:03.780 --> 01:36:05.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, that's that.
[01:36:05.120 --> 01:36:06.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Why don't you tell her what happened?
[01:36:06.600 --> 01:36:08.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Since you're talking to your sister now and your mother.
[01:36:09.560 --> 01:36:09.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:36:10.280 --> 01:36:11.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: We get the whole family.
[01:36:11.580 --> 01:36:12.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Why don't they just call each other?
[01:36:13.040 --> 01:36:14.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: They both have phones, obviously.
[01:36:15.120 --> 01:36:16.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a good question.
[01:36:16.200 --> 01:36:16.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:36:16.400 --> 01:36:17.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you not know how this works?
[01:36:17.520 --> 01:36:18.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: Get Rebel back.
[01:36:18.560 --> 01:36:19.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: He can explain it to you.
[01:36:19.380 --> 01:36:22.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: You just call me and I'm just called Alex because we're the same person.
[01:36:23.360 --> 01:36:25.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is emergency communications.
[01:36:25.500 --> 01:36:29.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sometimes you have to relay and, uh, you know, get the, spread the word.
[01:36:29.480 --> 01:36:36.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I, I literally took some photos outside earlier with my hair whipping around and I was like, oh, I'm Alex.
[01:36:37.260 --> 01:36:43.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just literally, we have the same face if you haven't seen us.
[01:36:43.560 --> 01:36:44.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: You have Alex's face?
[01:36:46.160 --> 01:36:48.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we have literally the same face.
[01:36:48.620 --> 01:36:49.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[01:36:49.300 --> 01:36:50.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's, that's something to think about.
[01:36:50.940 --> 01:36:52.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's unfortunate for both of us.
[01:36:54.440 --> 01:36:55.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you're a strong woman.
[01:36:56.080 --> 01:36:56.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's put it that way.
[01:36:56.960 --> 01:36:57.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[01:36:58.300 --> 01:36:59.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks so much.
[01:36:59.540 --> 01:36:59.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:36:59.760 --> 01:37:00.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: I can't believe somebody married me.
[01:37:01.620 --> 01:37:02.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[01:37:02.240 --> 01:37:03.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it was great talking to you.
[01:37:03.660 --> 01:37:04.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please stay safe.
[01:37:04.660 --> 01:37:09.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Make sure people around you stay safe and just, uh, try and appreciate the uniqueness of this event.
[01:37:09.680 --> 01:37:15.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: I love storms myself, but, uh, you, you have to exercise, uh, caution and respect.
[01:37:15.500 --> 01:37:16.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Those are the important things.
[01:37:16.520 --> 01:37:16.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:37:16.980 --> 01:37:17.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what you can do.
[01:37:17.800 --> 01:37:18.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[01:37:19.100 --> 01:37:21.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, please, please keep us updated too.
[01:37:22.540 --> 01:37:22.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:37:22.900 --> 01:37:28.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: And Rachel, mom was, was saying that, uh, something is going on with her cell phone.
[01:37:28.640 --> 01:37:31.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's become non-responsive and, and she can't reboot it.
[01:37:31.900 --> 01:37:33.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: So don't, don't be alarmed.
[01:37:33.160 --> 01:37:34.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wait, wait, wait, where's, where's your mother?
[01:37:35.340 --> 01:37:36.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you don't mind me asking.
[01:37:36.300 --> 01:37:37.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: My mother is north of Tampa.
[01:37:38.360 --> 01:37:39.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: She's in Florida too.
[01:37:39.460 --> 01:37:39.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: For God's sake.
[01:37:40.020 --> 01:37:40.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[01:37:40.480 --> 01:37:41.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, who is it?
[01:37:41.400 --> 01:37:45.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, uh, yeah, Tampa, Tampa is going to get hit bad from what I hear.
[01:37:45.500 --> 01:37:47.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: So maybe that's why her cell phone isn't responding.
[01:37:47.520 --> 01:37:48.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's got some sense.
[01:37:48.760 --> 01:37:49.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: I can't know.
[01:37:49.620 --> 01:37:53.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, she, she was in the line of fire there, but it has, it had moved.
[01:37:54.000 --> 01:38:01.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: The, the storm had shifted and she no longer was right in its pathway, but it had shifted to be right in Rachel's pathway, unfortunately.
[01:38:02.420 --> 01:38:02.540]  Yeah.
[01:38:03.340 --> 01:38:03.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[01:38:03.920 --> 01:38:08.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, another day, this will hopefully be over and, uh, maybe it'll be on its way up here.
[01:38:09.240 --> 01:38:09.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:38:10.140 --> 01:38:13.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: And Rachel, call back next week and let us know.
[01:38:14.220 --> 01:38:16.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you guys always talk over each other like this?
[01:38:16.260 --> 01:38:17.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can, I can see the sibling rivalry.
[01:38:17.940 --> 01:38:19.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: I have the same conversations as siblings.
[01:38:20.160 --> 01:38:20.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:38:20.200 --> 01:38:20.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're talking over each other.
[01:38:21.220 --> 01:38:22.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, Alex first and then Rachel.
[01:38:23.060 --> 01:38:23.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then we'll...
[01:38:23.680 --> 01:38:23.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:38:23.980 --> 01:38:30.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: I just said, Rachel, you're going to have to call back next week because everybody's going to be wondering what happened to your house and how things were.
[01:38:30.340 --> 01:38:34.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: So you're going to have to, you know, update us next week officially from you.
[01:38:36.040 --> 01:38:37.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: I probably won't be working.
[01:38:37.720 --> 01:38:39.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: And if I am, I'll call you from work.
[01:38:40.160 --> 01:38:40.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[01:38:40.800 --> 01:38:41.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: That sounds perfect.
[01:38:41.980 --> 01:38:42.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or we'll find you.
[01:38:43.520 --> 01:38:43.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:38:44.260 --> 01:38:45.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll give you a call from the bar.
[01:38:46.360 --> 01:38:47.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right, Rachel, be safe.
[01:38:48.100 --> 01:38:50.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Give, uh, and same, same to Jesse.
[01:38:50.580 --> 01:38:52.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, I love you and we'll talk to you soon.
[01:38:53.700 --> 01:38:54.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: I love you too, brother.
[01:38:55.680 --> 01:38:56.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[01:38:56.540 --> 01:38:56.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[01:38:57.100 --> 01:38:57.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Bye.
[01:38:57.660 --> 01:38:57.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Bye.
[01:38:59.180 --> 01:39:00.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like I'm eavesdropping here.
[01:39:00.860 --> 01:39:01.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like I...
[01:39:01.960 --> 01:39:04.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, but you got your mom, you got your sister, the dog.
[01:39:06.440 --> 01:39:08.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: You didn't expect this to happen.
[01:39:08.200 --> 01:39:09.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, I did not expect that to happen.
[01:39:09.740 --> 01:39:12.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: I expected all sorts of things, not that.
[01:39:12.900 --> 01:39:13.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[01:39:13.360 --> 01:39:18.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you know, if you're in Florida, and apparently a lot of people are, um, please be careful, be safe.
[01:39:18.640 --> 01:39:31.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Also, you know, our friends up in the Maritimes, um, uh, Nova Scotia, uh, Newfoundland, uh, Prince Edward Island, parts of New Brunswick, even parts of Quebec were hit by Fiona, uh, last week.
[01:39:31.420 --> 01:39:32.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that was a massive storm.
[01:39:32.880 --> 01:39:35.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: In fact, a lot of people are still without power.
[01:39:36.120 --> 01:39:51.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and we were listening to, uh, uh, CBC Halifax and, uh, how they were basically hosting a call-in show in the overnight hours where people had no power, were listening on transistor radios or battery-powered radios and, and calling with their landlines or cell phones that still had power.
[01:39:52.740 --> 01:39:57.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, it was, it was really something to behold and it's still going on up there.
[01:39:57.860 --> 01:39:59.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's, you know, it's incredible.
[01:39:59.260 --> 01:40:01.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: You got, uh, Ian, you got Fiona, you got Carl coming.
[01:40:01.440 --> 01:40:04.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: These are all the, the, the shameless kids' names.
[01:40:04.240 --> 01:40:06.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you watch that show on, on, on Showtime.
[01:40:06.160 --> 01:40:07.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's kind of weird.
[01:40:08.780 --> 01:40:09.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: These things are happening.
[01:40:11.040 --> 01:40:13.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Any, any more thoughts, Alex, before we go to another call?
[01:40:13.880 --> 01:40:16.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, no, I'd, uh, let's, let's move on.
[01:40:16.200 --> 01:40:16.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[01:40:16.440 --> 01:40:17.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for sharing that.
[01:40:17.160 --> 01:40:18.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: That was, uh, very interesting.
[01:40:18.380 --> 01:40:18.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: Good evening.
[01:40:19.220 --> 01:40:19.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're a dial tone.
[01:40:20.240 --> 01:40:21.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Why'd you give me a dial tone, Kyle?
[01:40:21.720 --> 01:40:26.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: It wasn't a dial tone before, or at least it was a dial tone with, uh, the location.
[01:40:26.640 --> 01:40:27.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hmm.
[01:40:28.600 --> 01:40:32.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: The day the dial tones, uh, become sentient and start calling us.
[01:40:32.180 --> 01:40:32.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[01:40:32.540 --> 01:40:33.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: How about this one?
[01:40:33.220 --> 01:40:33.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[01:40:34.180 --> 01:40:34.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[01:40:34.980 --> 01:40:35.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for sharing.
[01:40:35.600 --> 01:40:36.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, that's me.
[01:40:36.640 --> 01:40:38.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Did I call myself as a dial tone again?
[01:40:38.740 --> 01:40:39.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, is anybody there?
[01:40:39.980 --> 01:40:40.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: Go ahead.
[01:40:40.560 --> 01:40:40.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:40:41.260 --> 01:40:41.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hi.
[01:40:41.600 --> 01:40:42.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: What's on your mind?
[01:40:42.340 --> 01:40:42.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Go ahead.
[01:40:43.120 --> 01:40:43.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my goodness.
[01:40:44.160 --> 01:40:44.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: I got through.
[01:40:46.240 --> 01:40:57.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah, I just had a weird experience, uh, when I went to pay my T-Mobile bill where they, you know, when they say that their systems are down and you can't pay.
[01:40:57.460 --> 01:41:06.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, at, at, at the, uh, the time when I went to pay, they were, they told me I couldn't pay in cash because their system was down.
[01:41:07.240 --> 01:41:07.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:41:07.780 --> 01:41:08.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: And they don't know how to count money.
[01:41:09.040 --> 01:41:09.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Apparently.
[01:41:10.060 --> 01:41:11.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: It was just weird.
[01:41:11.120 --> 01:41:14.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if that's something that's recent or that's something that's like happening.
[01:41:16.420 --> 01:41:17.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: We've seen it happen before.
[01:41:17.860 --> 01:41:24.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, we've seen, you know, cash registers fail in supermarkets and they have to close because nobody knows how to, how to process cash anymore.
[01:41:25.000 --> 01:41:26.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's really kind of, kind of crazy.
[01:41:27.560 --> 01:41:30.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: They, they, you know, they say I could pay in credit card if I want.
[01:41:30.180 --> 01:41:32.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Usually when the systems are down, you can't pay in credit card.
[01:41:33.100 --> 01:41:33.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:41:33.540 --> 01:41:36.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what system was down if they could accept credit cards, but not cash.
[01:41:37.180 --> 01:41:37.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:41:39.660 --> 01:41:40.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[01:41:40.060 --> 01:41:42.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just so strange, but...
[01:41:42.020 --> 01:41:42.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:41:42.460 --> 01:41:43.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Where are you calling from, if we could ask?
[01:41:44.460 --> 01:41:45.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: New York.
[01:41:45.700 --> 01:41:45.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[01:41:46.680 --> 01:41:48.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Any, any other thoughts on your mind?
[01:41:49.960 --> 01:41:51.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, not a moment.
[01:41:51.580 --> 01:42:05.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just, I, I went to, actually the other day I was at a, at this antique place in the Bronx and the guy had an actual working payphone booth in his store from 1986.
[01:42:05.880 --> 01:42:12.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it had the fan, it had the lights, it even had a, a, a phone book attached to it from that, from that time.
[01:42:12.700 --> 01:42:13.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Did it have a phone?
[01:42:14.440 --> 01:42:14.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:42:14.880 --> 01:42:16.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, the phone was working.
[01:42:16.180 --> 01:42:17.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: He actually had it hooked up.
[01:42:17.560 --> 01:42:19.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: And was, was this for sale as an antique?
[01:42:20.560 --> 01:42:22.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, he was, I asked him if it was for sale.
[01:42:22.960 --> 01:42:25.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't for sale, but it was, it was a wooden booth.
[01:42:25.720 --> 01:42:29.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: It was from New England, uh, I think it was New England, uh, Bell.
[01:42:30.260 --> 01:42:30.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:42:30.700 --> 01:42:31.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: New England Telephone.
[01:42:31.440 --> 01:42:32.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was a Bell company.
[01:42:32.220 --> 01:42:38.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, and, and the, the, the, uh, phone book itself was dated 1986.
[01:42:39.160 --> 01:42:39.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[01:42:39.740 --> 01:42:41.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it was still attached with the cable.
[01:42:41.760 --> 01:42:46.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the, the, the door closed, the light turned on, the fan turns on.
[01:42:46.460 --> 01:42:47.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it sounds like the one we have.
[01:42:47.720 --> 01:42:49.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's, they're, they're, they're great.
[01:42:49.740 --> 01:42:51.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we're going to build robotic legs.
[01:42:51.580 --> 01:42:52.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: But he, he had his hooked up.
[01:42:52.800 --> 01:42:53.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's amazing.
[01:42:53.860 --> 01:42:55.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, I picked up the phone.
[01:42:55.540 --> 01:42:56.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: There was a dial phone.
[01:42:57.320 --> 01:42:57.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Awesome.
[01:42:58.080 --> 01:42:58.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:42:58.480 --> 01:42:59.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Those things sound great.
[01:42:59.720 --> 01:43:01.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just, uh, have a conversation in there.
[01:43:01.800 --> 01:43:02.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's, uh...
[01:43:02.360 --> 01:43:02.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know what?
[01:43:02.740 --> 01:43:03.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Take a picture of it.
[01:43:03.440 --> 01:43:04.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Send it in to 2600.
[01:43:04.460 --> 01:43:05.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure we'll print it.
[01:43:05.360 --> 01:43:10.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: I actually took pictures, but then he talked, because he doesn't, he doesn't like people taking pictures of the stuff inside the store, but, you know...
[01:43:10.700 --> 01:43:11.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, don't cross him.
[01:43:11.560 --> 01:43:12.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a phone booth.
[01:43:12.780 --> 01:43:13.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's...
[01:43:13.500 --> 01:43:13.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I know.
[01:43:14.120 --> 01:43:15.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't, I don't know why he didn't want to, but...
[01:43:15.780 --> 01:43:15.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[01:43:15.900 --> 01:43:16.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: I do have some pictures.
[01:43:16.980 --> 01:43:21.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to do an audio recording of the dial tone, just to show it, but he wouldn't let me...
[01:43:21.560 --> 01:43:23.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, we know what a dial tone sounds like.
[01:43:23.080 --> 01:43:25.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Can you tell us where, where in the Bronx this place is?
[01:43:28.660 --> 01:43:31.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, Westchester Square, I think it was.
[01:43:31.160 --> 01:43:31.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um...
[01:43:32.520 --> 01:43:35.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, East Tremont, um...
[01:43:35.680 --> 01:43:35.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[01:43:37.300 --> 01:43:38.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Westchester Square.
[01:43:39.000 --> 01:43:39.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[01:43:39.380 --> 01:43:39.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: That area.
[01:43:40.800 --> 01:43:42.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: We'll send the crew out to investigate.
[01:43:45.000 --> 01:43:46.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, thanks for your call.
[01:43:47.080 --> 01:43:47.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Huh?
[01:43:47.620 --> 01:43:49.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for your call, and for that information.
[01:43:50.240 --> 01:43:51.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, please keep listening.
[01:43:52.340 --> 01:43:52.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Cool.
[01:43:53.100 --> 01:43:53.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, take care.
[01:43:54.340 --> 01:43:54.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bye-bye.
[01:43:55.020 --> 01:43:55.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Bye.
[01:43:56.220 --> 01:43:58.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you think we have time for, uh, one or two more?
[01:44:00.140 --> 01:44:01.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can't hear you nodding your head, Alan.
[01:44:01.780 --> 01:44:01.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Alex?
[01:44:02.380 --> 01:44:03.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I think so.
[01:44:04.000 --> 01:44:06.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, well then, 802-321-4225 is our phone number.
[01:44:09.540 --> 01:44:18.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let the record show that the, um, counsel, or ballast there, uh, answered in the affirmative.
[01:44:18.080 --> 01:44:19.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, I heard that.
[01:44:19.720 --> 01:44:20.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, you didn't get that?
[01:44:20.800 --> 01:44:21.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: I, I'm sorry.
[01:44:21.420 --> 01:44:22.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now he's walking away.
[01:44:22.180 --> 01:44:23.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: So there's nobody there.
[01:44:23.460 --> 01:44:23.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's just us two.
[01:44:24.180 --> 01:44:24.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, you're right.
[01:44:25.080 --> 01:44:30.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, and hopefully a caller calling 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK.
[01:44:30.560 --> 01:44:31.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Disgusted with us.
[01:44:31.600 --> 01:44:31.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:44:32.300 --> 01:44:33.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just storming out.
[01:44:33.720 --> 01:44:35.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Really feel abandoned right now.
[01:44:35.620 --> 01:44:36.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, um...
[01:44:36.940 --> 01:44:38.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, um, yeah.
[01:44:40.260 --> 01:44:40.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: What?
[01:44:40.740 --> 01:44:41.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: What does that mean?
[01:44:41.580 --> 01:44:41.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Nothing?
[01:44:42.140 --> 01:44:42.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[01:44:43.320 --> 01:44:45.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Like I said, it takes time for our voice to get out there.
[01:44:45.700 --> 01:44:46.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: We have a lot of listeners tonight.
[01:44:47.120 --> 01:44:50.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, um, that's what happens when there's storms in the area.
[01:44:50.580 --> 01:44:52.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, actually, there's not storms in the area.
[01:44:52.440 --> 01:44:53.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's just basically...
[01:44:53.640 --> 01:44:54.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Storms everywhere.
[01:44:54.600 --> 01:44:55.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Storms abound.
[01:44:55.220 --> 01:44:55.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Everywhere, but here.
[01:44:56.160 --> 01:44:56.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[01:44:56.420 --> 01:44:57.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: In, in the New York area.
[01:44:57.900 --> 01:44:59.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but people are thinking about it.
[01:44:59.780 --> 01:45:02.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're like, okay, where is my radio?
[01:45:03.460 --> 01:45:04.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Where is my flashlight?
[01:45:05.220 --> 01:45:05.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, all that.
[01:45:06.560 --> 01:45:13.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and that's a good thing to always have, uh, to have a working, a working phone, a working flashlight, a working radio.
[01:45:13.480 --> 01:45:15.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: I can't stress that enough.
[01:45:15.180 --> 01:45:19.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: Having a battery-powered radio, or I keep hearing about hand-crank radios.
[01:45:19.420 --> 01:45:20.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Where do we get one of those?
[01:45:20.280 --> 01:45:23.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hand-crank radio sounds great, because you can never run out of battery as long as you have a hand.
[01:45:24.760 --> 01:45:26.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you could use a, a bicycle.
[01:45:26.960 --> 01:45:28.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: You could have a bicycle-powered radio.
[01:45:28.520 --> 01:45:29.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Bicycle-powered radios.
[01:45:29.900 --> 01:45:30.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[01:45:30.400 --> 01:45:30.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[01:45:30.600 --> 01:45:32.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Sounds like overkill, but yeah, sure, why not?
[01:45:32.520 --> 01:45:34.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: You could have a, a wind-powered radio.
[01:45:35.320 --> 01:45:37.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, good in a hurricane, I guess.
[01:45:37.400 --> 01:45:39.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: You could have, oh, one powered by waves.
[01:45:39.740 --> 01:45:40.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Perfect for a hurricane.
[01:45:41.180 --> 01:45:42.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, what do you do, throw it in the water and...
[01:45:42.680 --> 01:45:43.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah.
[01:45:44.740 --> 01:45:45.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
[01:45:45.500 --> 01:45:46.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, all right.
[01:45:47.260 --> 01:45:48.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: 802-321-4225.
[01:45:48.860 --> 01:45:49.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: No calls yet?
[01:45:51.360 --> 01:45:52.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, there's one.
[01:45:52.760 --> 01:45:54.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I was just trying to...
[01:45:54.480 --> 01:45:55.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's one.
[01:45:55.520 --> 01:45:56.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know, we might have...
[01:45:56.480 --> 01:45:57.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: We can only take one.
[01:45:57.880 --> 01:45:59.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: We can only take one at a time.
[01:45:59.020 --> 01:46:00.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've been recording them.
[01:46:00.320 --> 01:46:01.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I've been glancing down.
[01:46:02.140 --> 01:46:03.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know, we may have talked to these people already.
[01:46:03.840 --> 01:46:05.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: We need new calls, so...
[01:46:05.460 --> 01:46:06.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hope it's not Rebel again.
[01:46:06.480 --> 01:46:07.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: If they're honest, so...
[01:46:07.440 --> 01:46:09.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Good evening, you're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:46:10.040 --> 01:46:11.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hello, how are you doing today?
[01:46:11.920 --> 01:46:15.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm calling from the student, student department.
[01:46:16.020 --> 01:46:17.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: How are you doing today?
[01:46:17.720 --> 01:46:20.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Rebel, you're not, you're not, you're not fooling anybody, Rebel.
[01:46:20.980 --> 01:46:26.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, uh, please free up the line so that somebody who hasn't already spent half an hour talking to us can call in.
[01:46:26.940 --> 01:46:28.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: And we're only on for a couple more minutes.
[01:46:29.060 --> 01:46:30.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, um, yes.
[01:46:30.660 --> 01:46:32.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: 802-321-4225.
[01:46:32.360 --> 01:46:33.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: See, folks, this is what happens when you don't call.
[01:46:34.320 --> 01:46:37.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, certain other elements call.
[01:46:37.080 --> 01:46:44.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that character he was, um, uh, trying out there would have actually asked, gotten to the point, asked us a question by then, you know?
[01:46:44.880 --> 01:46:47.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely, and we've answered it, and we've just moved on to the next one.
[01:46:47.260 --> 01:46:47.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just some notes.
[01:46:48.200 --> 01:46:51.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's okay, you know, I'd rather be outside, you know, playing catch.
[01:46:52.020 --> 01:46:58.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, so, uh, if we don't have any more calls, I'm, I'm prepared to move on, even though Alex is still out of the room for some reason.
[01:46:59.560 --> 01:47:01.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think he's weighed in.
[01:47:01.400 --> 01:47:02.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm looking at his background.
[01:47:02.520 --> 01:47:03.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: He's got all these pictures.
[01:47:04.400 --> 01:47:06.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's one of some general...
[01:47:06.040 --> 01:47:07.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is that Michael Flynn?
[01:47:07.180 --> 01:47:09.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: He's got a framed picture of Michael Flynn.
[01:47:09.100 --> 01:47:09.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wow, look at that.
[01:47:09.720 --> 01:47:14.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: And Make America Great Again, and all this memorabilia that, uh, interesting.
[01:47:14.860 --> 01:47:15.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: How about that?
[01:47:15.320 --> 01:47:20.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't want to ask him who is in that photo, but I'm just going to assume that that's who it is.
[01:47:21.860 --> 01:47:23.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, assume away.
[01:47:23.220 --> 01:47:23.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, look, he's waving.
[01:47:24.240 --> 01:47:26.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, um, Alex, welcome back.
[01:47:26.200 --> 01:47:26.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: Glad you could join us.
[01:47:26.900 --> 01:47:31.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think we're about to go because we don't seem to have any calls, and we're about, we're about fed up.
[01:47:32.540 --> 01:47:35.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I'm, I'm sure now that I'm back, somebody will be calling.
[01:47:37.540 --> 01:47:38.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
[01:47:38.860 --> 01:47:40.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, not you and your ego have, uh, returned.
[01:47:40.860 --> 01:47:42.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Just that kind of modesty that we're known for.
[01:47:43.040 --> 01:47:43.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's what people are drawn to.
[01:47:44.700 --> 01:47:47.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, uh, I'll give out the phone one more time, and only one more time.
[01:47:47.940 --> 01:47:51.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: 8-0-2-3-2-1-4-2-2-2-5.
[01:47:52.060 --> 01:47:55.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: We'll give it another two minutes, and then we'll say our goodbyes.
[01:47:56.300 --> 01:47:57.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: That sounds fair.
[01:47:57.600 --> 01:48:04.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for everyone who was listening out there, who, uh, uh, uh, was able to stream the extra overtime.
[01:48:04.500 --> 01:48:12.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: We will try to be back and, uh, and bring you even more interesting, intriguing stories.
[01:48:12.540 --> 01:48:15.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: We'll, uh, we'll have more people, more guests to talk.
[01:48:15.480 --> 01:48:16.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: But we count on your support.
[01:48:16.740 --> 01:48:22.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: We really appreciate, uh, people out there that, that, um, have, have contributed, written us letters.
[01:48:22.540 --> 01:48:24.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Don't, don't like, don't subscribe.
[01:48:24.280 --> 01:48:24.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: We don't like that.
[01:48:25.040 --> 01:48:25.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, I'm not saying that.
[01:48:26.100 --> 01:48:26.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Don't do that.
[01:48:26.620 --> 01:48:28.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: It annoys us, it offends us.
[01:48:28.960 --> 01:48:35.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm filling that gap, but I'm not saying, I'm going up to that, but I'm not actually crossing over to saying anything like that.
[01:48:35.380 --> 01:48:41.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: And if all kinds of, like, screenshots of other podcasts or whatever start showing up, let us know, because we'll take care of that.
[01:48:41.420 --> 01:48:41.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:48:41.700 --> 01:48:41.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: That should be happening.
[01:48:42.260 --> 01:48:46.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, don't report that, but find another account and report it on their account.
[01:48:47.000 --> 01:48:47.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, do that.
[01:48:47.820 --> 01:48:48.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.
[01:48:48.420 --> 01:48:52.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're like, if it's suggested and it's not us, report on their account.
[01:48:52.840 --> 01:48:55.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do whatever you can to mess up the system, is what I said.
[01:48:55.480 --> 01:48:55.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:48:56.020 --> 01:48:57.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's, uh, that's what it's all about.
[01:48:57.740 --> 01:48:57.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:48:57.960 --> 01:48:58.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Blame the algorithm.
[01:48:58.900 --> 01:49:03.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: And also, you can use the email address that's used for off the hook, for off the hook all the time.
[01:49:03.420 --> 01:49:06.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot of people don't know this, but you can use the same email address.
[01:49:06.160 --> 01:49:07.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: You don't have to use a different email address.
[01:49:07.400 --> 01:49:11.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: So that email address is oth@2600.com.
[01:49:12.020 --> 01:49:16.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: O-T-H stands for off the hook, and it's at 2600, 2600.com.
[01:49:16.920 --> 01:49:23.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: And just tell us what's on your mind, or ask questions, or counter something we said, or correct us, or whatever you feel is necessary.
[01:49:24.280 --> 01:49:24.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:49:24.800 --> 01:49:28.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: And fight, uh, for email to remain email.
[01:49:28.480 --> 01:49:28.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know?
[01:49:29.060 --> 01:49:31.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's people that want to take email away from you.
[01:49:31.500 --> 01:49:32.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: There are, aren't there?
[01:49:32.460 --> 01:49:35.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you need to fight for that.
[01:49:35.060 --> 01:49:37.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: You have to stand up, or your email will be taken.
[01:49:38.340 --> 01:49:38.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[01:49:38.860 --> 01:49:40.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's time we're taken somewhere.
[01:49:40.460 --> 01:49:41.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, no calls, right?
[01:49:41.580 --> 01:49:41.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're done?
[01:49:42.240 --> 01:49:43.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, we are finished.
[01:49:43.520 --> 01:49:43.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[01:49:43.860 --> 01:49:44.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Cool.
[01:49:44.640 --> 01:49:46.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: The time has, has come for us to go.
[01:49:47.180 --> 01:49:48.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you, everybody, for listening.
[01:49:48.300 --> 01:49:51.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Tune in again next Wednesday, 7 p.m.
[01:49:51.020 --> 01:49:54.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: on WBAI and WBAI.org.
[01:49:54.660 --> 01:49:56.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: And again at 8 p.m.
[01:49:56.980 --> 01:49:59.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: for hopefully another edition of Overtime.
[01:50:00.140 --> 01:50:02.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: We so enjoyed this last hour.
[01:50:03.220 --> 01:50:04.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: In fact, two hours.
[01:50:04.620 --> 01:50:06.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, Alex, any final words from you?
[01:50:06.960 --> 01:50:09.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, just, uh, this was a fun one tonight.
[01:50:09.580 --> 01:50:11.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, you know, have a good week, everybody.
[01:50:11.960 --> 01:50:16.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: And stay safe if you're in a place where it's possible that you won't be safe.
[01:50:17.820 --> 01:50:18.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[01:50:18.460 --> 01:50:18.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:50:19.180 --> 01:50:19.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good advice.
[01:50:20.900 --> 01:50:21.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Good night.