Off The Hook - 2023-05-17

[00:00.000 --> 00:06.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: The goal is only... I'm not even going to say $1,300.
[00:06.600 --> 00:11.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a little less than... a little over than $1,300.
[00:11.740 --> 00:25.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, go to WBAI.org and if you haven't given to that GoFundMe campaign, you know, consider doing that.
[00:25.740 --> 00:29.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: As well as giving to this radio station proper, okay?
[00:30.000 --> 00:34.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, with that said, it is now one minute past 7 p.m.
[00:34.260 --> 00:37.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: Stay tuned for Off The Hook coming up here on WBAI New York.
[01:02.720 --> 01:05.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thank you for listening to Off The Hook.
[01:10.500 --> 01:15.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:15.940 --> 01:20.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:21.120 --> 01:25.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: It couldn't get much worse, but if it could, it would.
[02:57.160 --> 02:59.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the very good evening to everybody.
[02:59.300 --> 03:00.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: The program is Off The Hook.
[03:01.320 --> 03:05.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening, joined tonight by Kyle.
[03:06.580 --> 03:07.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, indeed.
[03:07.380 --> 03:07.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right here.
[03:07.860 --> 03:11.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: And out there in Skype-land, we have Rob T. Firefly.
[03:12.520 --> 03:13.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[03:13.400 --> 03:14.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have Gila.
[03:15.000 --> 03:15.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[03:16.080 --> 03:17.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have Alex.
[03:17.820 --> 03:18.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[03:19.140 --> 03:21.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we have exciting news.
[03:22.000 --> 03:23.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, exciting news.
[03:23.300 --> 03:23.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Come join us.
[03:24.400 --> 03:26.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: We are going to do something new tonight.
[03:26.600 --> 03:28.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're going to experiment with something new tonight.
[03:28.260 --> 03:31.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not on the radio, because we've done everything we can do on the radio.
[03:31.900 --> 03:33.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: We can't experiment anymore there.
[03:33.060 --> 03:38.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: But online, we're going to be experimenting with something new.
[03:38.940 --> 03:40.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: An online chat.
[03:40.520 --> 03:41.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I know.
[03:41.600 --> 03:46.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's something alien and unknown to most of us.
[03:46.440 --> 03:51.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: But we are actually going to try and implement that tonight as part of the overtime broadcast.
[03:53.220 --> 03:56.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: We've been shying away from it because we thought maybe it would be distracting.
[03:56.340 --> 03:57.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: But you know what?
[03:57.320 --> 03:58.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're going to try it.
[03:58.260 --> 03:58.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: See what happens.
[03:58.720 --> 04:10.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: So that means that while we're doing various things, taking phone calls and just embarking in whatever we do after off the hook is off the air, you can type things.
[04:11.020 --> 04:13.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I don't know what happens then.
[04:14.040 --> 04:16.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: People will see them, I guess, if they go to the YouTube channel.
[04:16.660 --> 04:27.060]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, especially for people that may be a little self-conscious or not want to physically say something or they have something that they've prepared they'd like to say.
[04:27.060 --> 04:29.620]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, I mean, we'd rather it be spontaneous.
[04:29.620 --> 04:35.780]  [SPEAKER_17]: But it's a form of interaction that some people who ordinarily wouldn't call, maybe they don't have access to a phone.
[04:36.160 --> 04:40.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: They're tied up with their workstation.
[04:40.740 --> 04:42.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: But somehow they have access to a computer.
[04:42.680 --> 04:44.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's all a matter of preference.
[04:44.900 --> 04:48.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: We're just going to take the plunge, as it were.
[04:48.660 --> 04:48.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: Gila.
[04:48.820 --> 04:56.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Also, we're going to have an interesting opportunity this evening to have people in conversation with each other.
[04:56.460 --> 05:11.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, for example, if Bobson calls and you have a question about Bulgaria, you can type your question for Bobson into the chat and our friendly team of mods will relay it to the off the hook studio.
[05:11.800 --> 05:13.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or at least that's the plan.
[05:13.640 --> 05:15.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, we don't know what's going to happen.
[05:16.020 --> 05:18.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: As I said, we've been shying away from this for a long time.
[05:19.340 --> 05:22.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I've been talked into it just as an experiment to see what happens.
[05:22.940 --> 05:25.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're not on next week, so we have a full week to recover from this.
[05:26.420 --> 05:27.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, yeah, we'll see.
[05:27.720 --> 05:28.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: We'll see what happens.
[05:28.420 --> 05:29.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Maybe nobody will say anything.
[05:29.660 --> 05:30.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's certainly possible.
[05:30.740 --> 05:31.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's happened.
[05:32.960 --> 05:35.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: We are prepared for any eventuality.
[05:36.000 --> 05:36.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Absolutely.
[05:36.620 --> 05:38.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's what being a hacker is.
[05:39.060 --> 05:47.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, so moving on, we have some exciting news from, of all people, the IRS.
[05:47.260 --> 05:48.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Have you guys heard about this?
[05:48.500 --> 05:58.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: The Internal Revenue Service is working on a plan that would allow taxpayers to file directly with the government online.
[05:59.020 --> 06:03.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, that might not sound like anything at all, but actually, it's something pretty big.
[06:03.720 --> 06:21.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: You ever wonder, you know, when you're filling out all these numbers and forms and hiring accountants and all sorts of other people to do your taxes every year, why do you need to do that when you're basically giving in government forms to the government who already generated the forms?
[06:21.920 --> 06:26.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: So now, I guess everyone's finally figured out that, yeah, hey, the IRS already has all this information.
[06:26.980 --> 06:32.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you want, they could just either bill you or send you a refund check and do the work for you.
[06:33.360 --> 06:40.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: It works if you trust them, I guess, and if you don't have any shenanigans that you have to engage in to make the numbers a little bit different.
[06:40.920 --> 06:44.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think for most people, this is probably a fairly good deal.
[06:44.600 --> 06:44.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know.
[06:45.020 --> 06:45.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: What do you folks think?
[06:47.600 --> 06:49.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think it's quite a good deal.
[06:49.180 --> 07:09.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, it's something, this is something that I think the IRS has had the technical capacity for for a long time, but that the tax preparers have been fighting so hard against because it is very difficult for them to justify being the middleman in this transaction where you give the government forms to them so they can give them to the government and pay a large amount for the privilege.
[07:09.940 --> 07:14.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I can see why that might be an inconvenience to them when you don't need them anymore.
[07:14.340 --> 07:24.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, you know, I still think they'll have plenty of work for people that want to maybe not believe what the IRS tells them or who might have extenuating circumstances.
[07:24.680 --> 07:27.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: But again, literally, they have the information already.
[07:27.840 --> 07:30.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: So other countries do this.
[07:30.380 --> 07:31.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: As usual, we don't.
[07:31.820 --> 07:34.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: But it seems like a no-brainer.
[07:34.480 --> 07:35.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: It really does.
[07:35.520 --> 07:35.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Alex?
[07:37.020 --> 07:42.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, having lived in the UK, this is the way things were generally done over there.
[07:42.460 --> 07:45.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, people would automatically file.
[07:45.200 --> 07:50.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: You would get some form from the government every year, and it was usually correct.
[07:50.340 --> 07:51.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: You didn't have to do much.
[07:51.940 --> 07:56.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: There wasn't any kind of affirmative action that you needed to take on your part, really.
[07:57.460 --> 07:59.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a really good thing.
[07:59.940 --> 08:08.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Most people who just take the standard deduction and don't have lots of expenses and whatnot are going to, I think, benefit from this tremendously.
[08:08.880 --> 08:16.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the IRS will benefit, too, because it will have fewer people not filing as well.
[08:17.260 --> 08:19.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: So their records are going to be better.
[08:19.580 --> 08:25.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think when it comes to the tax preparers and the accountants and whatnot, you're still going to need them.
[08:25.620 --> 08:34.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Although the people that have more complicated taxes, have lots of different assets, are running things for LLCs, they're still going to need those tax preparers, those accountants, those CPAs.
[08:34.960 --> 08:39.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: And all the corporations and things and all those LLCs out there are still going to need them as well.
[08:39.660 --> 08:48.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't see this as undermining the ecosystem for accountants in any appreciable way here.
[08:48.720 --> 08:52.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's something that, frankly, I feel like we should have been doing for many, many years.
[08:53.220 --> 09:20.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, it seems like a baseline of coverage or if you're going to make a healthcare analogy or some kind of foundation to do simple filings and so forth that are reasonably straightforward that most people would be doing and have had pretty much everything mailed to them and at their fingertips and was generated and submitted in other ways.
[09:20.280 --> 09:21.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: And so it's sort of duplicating efforts.
[09:22.140 --> 09:24.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: So this consolidates a little bit.
[09:24.160 --> 09:27.200]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I'm just for as many options as possible.
[09:27.560 --> 09:50.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: And instead of certain individual companies or whatever private preparer you can hire, which would have maybe a wide variation, that whole ecosystem should be as healthy as possible, not just one entity or two kind of dominating.
[09:51.000 --> 09:59.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, we seem to have a tradition in this country, a fairly new tradition of arguing over everything, no matter how obviously sensible it may be.
[10:00.060 --> 10:02.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: This particular case, yeah, it makes sense to a lot of people.
[10:02.600 --> 10:09.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: But Rick Heinemann is a spokesman for Intuit, and they're the company behind TurboTax.
[10:10.000 --> 10:11.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: They don't like this at all.
[10:12.220 --> 10:20.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: A direct-to-IRS e-file system is wholly redundant and is nothing more than a solution in search of a problem, which is a great soundbite.
[10:21.060 --> 10:27.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: That solution will unnecessarily cost taxpayers billions of dollars and especially harm the most vulnerable Americans.
[10:27.280 --> 10:29.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, let's just look at that for a second.
[10:29.020 --> 10:34.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: How does it cost billions of dollars to not pay something to your company?
[10:34.340 --> 10:35.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: How does that work exactly?
[10:35.920 --> 10:49.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: And exactly how are the most vulnerable Americans the ones being targeted here when it seems like the most vulnerable people are the ones with the least amount of money who can ill afford to pay somebody else to fill out forms for them, and here it's being offered to be done for free.
[10:50.240 --> 10:51.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, you know, I just...
[10:51.600 --> 10:57.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Again, it's a great soundbite, but it doesn't really add up, to coin an accountant phrase.
[11:00.220 --> 11:01.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, I would say they're not Intuit.
[11:02.440 --> 11:03.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, nice.
[11:03.480 --> 11:03.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's nice.
[11:04.080 --> 11:04.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm trying.
[11:04.340 --> 11:04.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's nice.
[11:04.980 --> 11:06.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Just trying to carry some...
[11:06.040 --> 11:08.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, they knew when they made their name, someone was going to make that joke at some point.
[11:08.980 --> 11:10.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, Alex, looks like you have something to say.
[11:10.840 --> 11:13.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that was just a great pun on Kyle.
[11:13.720 --> 11:14.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Very, very, very good.
[11:14.840 --> 11:15.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think...
[11:15.640 --> 11:18.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't really understand Intuit's position here.
[11:18.760 --> 11:21.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not really intuitive in a lot of ways.
[11:21.840 --> 11:23.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Were you trying to make a joke just now?
[11:24.160 --> 11:24.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Intuitive?
[11:24.780 --> 11:24.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: No.
[11:25.320 --> 11:25.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[11:26.140 --> 11:28.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because it didn't land if you were trying.
[11:28.500 --> 11:28.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just wanted to...
[11:28.920 --> 11:29.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[11:29.220 --> 11:29.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's just...
[11:29.980 --> 11:32.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's the power of suggestion right there.
[11:32.940 --> 11:35.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: But how does this...
[11:35.760 --> 11:37.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't make any sense.
[11:37.360 --> 11:40.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: It really absolutely does not make any sense, their position.
[11:40.480 --> 11:42.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, maybe I'm missing something entirely.
[11:42.460 --> 11:43.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: That makes perfect sense, Alex.
[11:43.660 --> 11:45.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're not going to make as much money as they did before.
[11:45.520 --> 11:46.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's why they have this position.
[11:46.820 --> 11:50.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm saying the Intuit argument is not intuitive in that...
[11:50.460 --> 11:56.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: How do vulnerable Americans, you know, not benefit from this?
[11:56.240 --> 11:56.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, that's...
[11:56.600 --> 11:57.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, exactly.
[11:57.460 --> 11:58.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think they're just...
[11:58.380 --> 12:01.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're basically throwing things at walls and seeing what sticks.
[12:01.580 --> 12:03.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, they haven't made their argument yet.
[12:03.380 --> 12:07.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: They've come up with a phrase, but they haven't come up with a logic to back it up.
[12:07.920 --> 12:16.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it also seems to assume that somehow Intuit was helping vulnerable Americans in some way.
[12:16.620 --> 12:18.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're not going to be able to.
[12:18.240 --> 12:19.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, so I'd like...
[12:19.220 --> 12:21.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd love to see them expand on that.
[12:21.460 --> 12:22.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, me too.
[12:22.220 --> 12:24.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'd like to see them expand on helping vulnerable Americans.
[12:24.300 --> 12:24.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: That would be nice.
[12:25.140 --> 12:26.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's like, you know, when healthcare...
[12:26.960 --> 12:33.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: The idea of healthcare was introduced during the Obama administration or reintroduced during that administration.
[12:33.220 --> 12:37.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: And Republicans were saying that healthcare is going to kill us.
[12:37.500 --> 12:38.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, there'll be death squads.
[12:39.060 --> 12:40.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: All sorts of nonsense.
[12:40.580 --> 12:46.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, they come up with the fear-mongering first before they actually have, you know, put together a story.
[12:46.640 --> 12:48.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: So it really sounds kind of silly.
[12:48.400 --> 12:49.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Gila, did you have something?
[12:51.120 --> 12:52.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was just...
[12:52.840 --> 12:55.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sorry, I'm a little sidetracked.
[12:55.180 --> 12:59.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: We were hoping this wouldn't happen because people are already starting to live chat in the live chat.
[12:59.200 --> 13:00.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I'm half keeping an eye on that.
[13:00.420 --> 13:01.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wait, wait, hold on a second.
[13:01.240 --> 13:04.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, people can live chat before the channel even becomes active?
[13:04.800 --> 13:05.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, they can.
[13:05.420 --> 13:06.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: I didn't know that.
[13:06.180 --> 13:07.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, that's not right.
[13:08.740 --> 13:11.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I'm just trying to keep an eye on it.
[13:11.620 --> 13:18.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: The answer for the person who just asked is, we're not pushing questions from the live chat to the show right now.
[13:19.840 --> 13:22.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is interactive for over time.
[13:22.760 --> 13:26.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I'm just making sure that nobody is like...
[13:27.160 --> 13:31.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Do you need me to go in there and disable some features?
[13:31.480 --> 13:32.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because I can do that.
[13:32.840 --> 13:33.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: I can do that.
[13:33.580 --> 13:34.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, no, you can.
[13:34.360 --> 13:34.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[13:36.400 --> 13:38.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: So the answer is not really.
[13:38.720 --> 13:40.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we'll push your questions during over time.
[13:40.820 --> 13:42.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you for the first question we already have.
[13:42.860 --> 13:45.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: But hold that thought for the next...
[13:45.040 --> 13:48.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, you see, this is exactly what we were trying to avoid is being distracted by...
[13:48.960 --> 13:48.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: It got pushed, though.
[13:49.100 --> 13:49.780]  [SPEAKER_17]: It got pushed.
[13:49.900 --> 13:50.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: What got pushed?
[13:50.580 --> 13:52.020]  [SPEAKER_17]: The question got pushed to the show.
[13:52.080 --> 13:53.280]  [SPEAKER_17]: The question got pushed up to the...
[13:53.280 --> 13:53.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah.
[13:53.720 --> 13:55.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: Overtime just came into the regular show.
[13:55.520 --> 13:56.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Explain something to me with YouTube.
[13:56.660 --> 14:00.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: YouTube, okay, so the channel becomes active at a particular...
[14:00.040 --> 14:00.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Or the...
[14:00.640 --> 14:01.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not a channel.
[14:01.960 --> 14:02.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's...
[14:02.380 --> 14:03.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: What is it?
[14:03.140 --> 14:03.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a program?
[14:03.800 --> 14:04.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: The video link.
[14:04.440 --> 14:05.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: The video link.
[14:05.200 --> 14:06.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: The live stream.
[14:06.300 --> 14:06.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Live stream.
[14:07.000 --> 14:07.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, that's a company, isn't it?
[14:08.340 --> 14:08.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Whatever.
[14:08.640 --> 14:09.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't want to use the wrong phrase.
[14:10.120 --> 14:12.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: But the live stream becomes active at 8 o'clock.
[14:12.820 --> 14:16.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: So you would assume that the chat wouldn't become active until then as well.
[14:17.200 --> 14:19.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: How about we just not look at it until...
[14:19.360 --> 14:21.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: But then it's going to be on a permanent record.
[14:21.640 --> 14:22.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know?
[14:22.600 --> 14:24.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: This is like the line outside the venue.
[14:26.660 --> 14:28.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: They're talking, they're in anticipation.
[14:28.640 --> 14:29.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's fine.
[14:29.640 --> 14:30.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: But it's not being logged.
[14:31.160 --> 14:34.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: When you're standing online, nobody remembers that conversation later.
[14:34.500 --> 14:34.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Here...
[14:34.840 --> 14:36.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, this is my question.
[14:36.040 --> 14:43.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have it set up so that the chat will replay when people re-listen to the stream or re-watch the stream.
[14:44.100 --> 14:47.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: How does that work if they're chatting before the stream begins?
[14:48.440 --> 14:49.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's what I don't understand.
[14:49.580 --> 14:50.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: I guess we'll find out.
[14:50.280 --> 14:55.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: We will certainly find out after overtime ends.
[14:56.020 --> 15:00.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: But if I could encourage our panelists to stay out of the live chat right now.
[15:01.900 --> 15:02.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Alex, really?
[15:04.020 --> 15:05.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what you're talking about.
[15:05.580 --> 15:06.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's focus, people.
[15:07.200 --> 15:08.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: It could be somebody impersonating.
[15:08.680 --> 15:09.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, yeah.
[15:09.680 --> 15:10.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's getting out of hand.
[15:10.600 --> 15:11.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Who would do that, Alex?
[15:11.620 --> 15:12.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Who would impersonate you?
[15:13.420 --> 15:13.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's a good one.
[15:14.100 --> 15:14.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Exactly.
[15:15.060 --> 15:16.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, let's move on.
[15:16.040 --> 15:16.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have a lot to talk about.
[15:16.920 --> 15:19.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, Apple, Apple has a great idea.
[15:20.360 --> 15:25.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: They have previewed a suite of accessibility features that will be coming later this year.
[15:25.120 --> 15:26.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: And there's nothing we can do to stop it, apparently.
[15:27.420 --> 15:32.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: The new personal voice feature is expected as part of iOS 17.
[15:32.300 --> 15:33.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is that what they're up to?
[15:33.500 --> 15:33.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: My, my.
[15:35.300 --> 15:46.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: It'll let iPhones and iPads generate digital reproductions of a user's voice for in-person conversations and on phone, FaceTime, and audio calls.
[15:46.920 --> 15:56.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: In what universe is this a good idea to be able to have somebody's voice mimicked and just bandied about?
[15:56.780 --> 15:58.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: I cannot think of...
[15:58.220 --> 15:59.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, except for...
[15:59.620 --> 16:02.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: I can think of plenty of uses, you know, nefarious uses for this.
[16:02.560 --> 16:04.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: I cannot think of a single good use.
[16:04.580 --> 16:05.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Gila, did you have an idea?
[16:06.560 --> 16:11.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I had a thought, and my first thought was my voice is my identity verifying me.
[16:11.440 --> 16:12.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's nefarious.
[16:12.360 --> 16:14.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's one of the nefarious ideas I had.
[16:14.180 --> 16:15.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: No question.
[16:15.500 --> 16:28.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: But this is something that I have dealt with on a regular basis throughout my entire life because I inherited a lot of things directly from my mom, and one of them is her voice.
[16:28.100 --> 16:29.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: We sound exactly identical.
[16:30.060 --> 16:30.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's true.
[16:31.040 --> 16:38.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: And trying to convince people that I'm not, in fact, her has been very complex throughout my life.
[16:38.960 --> 16:40.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: How in the world would this help?
[16:41.020 --> 16:41.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: It wouldn't.
[16:42.000 --> 16:42.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is what I'm saying.
[16:43.060 --> 16:43.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: There'll be three of you.
[16:43.760 --> 16:44.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: There'll be three of you now.
[16:44.940 --> 16:45.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or more.
[16:45.760 --> 16:47.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: There could be four of us because we each have...
[16:47.680 --> 16:49.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think my mom has an iPad, too.
[16:49.420 --> 16:50.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: There could be five of us.
[16:51.440 --> 16:58.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: I am hamstrung to think how this could be anything other than an utter disaster.
[16:59.280 --> 17:00.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Maybe that's what they're going for.
[17:00.740 --> 17:01.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is that possible?
[17:01.560 --> 17:03.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, Apple does have a list of disasters.
[17:04.780 --> 17:06.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Maybe they need to update that.
[17:07.440 --> 17:09.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not update to iOS 17.
[17:09.220 --> 17:10.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: What is the selling point?
[17:11.120 --> 17:15.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, it seems like it would drive families nuts.
[17:15.380 --> 17:20.160]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like parents getting impersonated for field trips or something.
[17:20.320 --> 17:21.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: You know, that kind of stuff.
[17:21.680 --> 17:23.020]  [SPEAKER_17]: Easily is like...
[17:23.020 --> 17:25.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let me read how it sounds in the press release.
[17:25.320 --> 17:26.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, CNBC story.
[17:27.420 --> 17:36.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Apple said personal voice, that's what it's called, will create a synthesized voice that sounds like a user and can be used to connect with family and friends.
[17:36.340 --> 17:38.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: How about deceive family and friends?
[17:39.220 --> 17:44.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: The feature is aimed at users who have conditions that can affect their speaking ability over time.
[17:44.580 --> 17:45.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's who it's for.
[17:45.580 --> 17:46.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, so it was...
[17:46.420 --> 17:49.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's for that particular use and any other use is a misuse.
[17:50.500 --> 17:50.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right?
[17:51.240 --> 17:53.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, I use accessibility features.
[17:53.340 --> 17:54.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Make a point to.
[17:54.540 --> 17:55.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is what you need.
[17:55.380 --> 18:01.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: You need 15 minutes of audio so that the technology can draw upon it.
[18:02.060 --> 18:05.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: The feature will use local machine learning technology to maximize privacy.
[18:05.780 --> 18:08.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm glad they're maximizing privacy.
[18:08.400 --> 18:10.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, you know, we're all on the radio.
[18:10.800 --> 18:11.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay?
[18:11.440 --> 18:15.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: And need I remind you that our voices are what go out over the air.
[18:15.460 --> 18:23.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Anybody, anybody out there can get 15 minutes of any of us and do whatever they feel like with this technology.
[18:23.820 --> 18:24.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you know what?
[18:24.620 --> 18:25.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: You have my permission.
[18:25.880 --> 18:29.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Whoever is going to play with this because it's not going to be me.
[18:29.500 --> 18:31.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not going to be me, at least not immediately.
[18:31.620 --> 18:36.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: But if you can do something funny or interesting or constructive, let us know.
[18:36.920 --> 18:38.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: oth@2600.com.
[18:38.660 --> 18:42.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: We'd love to hear what you come up with with personal voice.
[18:42.640 --> 18:56.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's all part of a larger suite of accessibility improvements for iOS devices, including a new assistive access feature that helps users with cognitive disabilities and their caretakers more easily take advantage of iOS devices.
[18:56.240 --> 18:58.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it's all really nice, fun, and good.
[18:58.200 --> 19:01.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's no criticism at all whatsoever in this news story here.
[19:02.080 --> 19:07.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, you know, that's what we do here on this show is we look at the flip sides of these things.
[19:08.060 --> 19:08.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead, Alex.
[19:10.080 --> 19:12.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: This could be an absolute disaster.
[19:12.540 --> 19:18.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't really understand why they would roll something out like this.
[19:18.580 --> 19:28.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: I guess, you know, in certain circumstances, you know, people like Stephen Hawking come to mind who would, you know, this would have been really helpful to him, presumably.
[19:28.200 --> 19:44.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: while he was alive, you know, instead of, I guess you would still have to tap out everything character by character from his chair in order for it to have been said, but it just would have been said in a voice more similar to his, whatever that would have been.
[19:45.000 --> 20:03.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, in any way, what I've always thought is if you could combine some kind of business email compromise scam, you know, where you're impersonating, let's say, a high-ranking member of your company, together with some kind of like voicemail hacking and voice impersonation,
[20:03.900 --> 20:11.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: that would be such an incredibly effective way to steal money from a company, right?
[20:11.700 --> 20:13.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: And this has already happened in the past.
[20:13.900 --> 20:42.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: There are actually some cases, I think, that were litigated because they were claims to a cyber liability insurer that involved the impersonation or the use of a deep fake video, not video, I'm sorry, a voice recording of the CEO of a subsidiary of another company that was then used to essentially shift over some banking arrangements and some nation payments that had to be made and the victim
[20:42.760 --> 20:47.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: company lost a lot of money because of the impersonation of this CEO's voice.
[20:48.020 --> 21:10.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: And if you think about people like us, we're on the radio very often, but lots of people go and talk at conferences, lots of people go and speak on panels or presentations, and so it wouldn't be very difficult at all to piece together 15 minutes of audio of any CFO or CEO or even people that work in accounts payable,
[21:10.800 --> 21:11.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: perhaps.
[21:11.500 --> 21:20.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: You could find enough video or audio of them in order to train this thing and then allow you to use it maliciously and some kind of attack.
[21:21.300 --> 21:36.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think this is, if it's rolled out in the way in which the CNBC story seems to imply that it's going to be rolled out and so accessible, I feel like this could very easily facilitate massive amounts of fraud.
[21:37.300 --> 21:42.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's not something that is really difficult to foresee.
[21:42.620 --> 21:45.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, these are issues that have been out there percolating for a while.
[21:45.900 --> 21:55.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think malicious actors, you know, the bad guys, the threat actors, are going to see this as a great compliment to their pre-existing tool set.
[21:56.080 --> 21:57.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, they often do.
[21:57.660 --> 22:09.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the thing that I was thinking of was, you know, Emmanuel, when you were working with some of the AI voices, right, you were feeding ChatGPT stuff into the AI voices.
[22:09.500 --> 22:10.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: I was?
[22:10.500 --> 22:12.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: To give ChatGPT voice.
[22:12.900 --> 22:15.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, well, no, actually, that was not ChatGPT.
[22:15.960 --> 22:18.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: That was simply, that was a text-to-speech converter.
[22:19.320 --> 22:20.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: My apologies.
[22:20.300 --> 22:21.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, so the text-to-speech converter.
[22:21.980 --> 22:28.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: And what we learned eventually was that the text-to-speech converter cannot pronounce my name correctly.
[22:28.680 --> 22:29.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's right.
[22:29.580 --> 22:29.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's right.
[22:30.000 --> 22:31.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: It would say Gila, I believe.
[22:32.120 --> 22:32.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[22:32.640 --> 22:32.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[22:33.480 --> 22:35.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, unless we fed it carefully.
[22:35.840 --> 22:49.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, if you have, you know, something that is a little more complicated to pronounce, right, I think that could feed its own set of problems into it.
[22:49.260 --> 22:57.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, you know, as much as they can try to make it sound like me, for example, if it can't say my name right, that's a problem right there.
[22:57.680 --> 22:57.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[22:57.920 --> 23:03.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, that was just my first thought, which is, yes.
[23:03.340 --> 23:03.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead, Rob.
[23:05.120 --> 23:11.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: There was a very interesting experiment done with this a few days ago by a site called U7 Radio.
[23:11.500 --> 23:20.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, I think a lot of people here remember the now long-departed radio host, Art Bell, who used to host the show Coast to Coast AM.
[23:21.660 --> 23:25.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: and U7 Radio is a site full of Art Bell enthusiasts.
[23:26.440 --> 23:50.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, what they did was they took transcripts of a bunch of Art Bell's old shows, trained a ChatGPT instance on them, and then used AI-based voice imitators to take that transcript of what the ChatGPT generated into audio and basically made a new episode of Coast to Coast AM that's entirely generated and performed by AI.
[23:51.080 --> 23:51.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, wow.
[23:51.720 --> 23:56.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's a hell of an interesting thing, and it's about two hours long.
[23:57.020 --> 24:10.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can get this at u7radio.org, or it's also on archive.org, and it's uncanny, and you have to really pay attention to notice the weak spots in the AI's presentation.
[24:10.580 --> 24:14.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Someone who didn't know any better could listen to this and think it was a genuine episode of the show.
[24:14.680 --> 24:23.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's got a fake art, it's got fake collars, the subject matter seems to make sense until you really start paying attention to it and realize they're kind of talking nonsense.
[24:23.840 --> 24:26.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, this isn't the first I've heard something like this.
[24:26.680 --> 24:34.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: In the rap world, I heard somebody was able to program Tupac to sing a Biggie song, which would have caused a war normally.
[24:35.000 --> 24:40.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: But it's really believable, but it's all done artificially.
[24:41.980 --> 24:49.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know where I fall on that one because it might sound really good, but it's not real.
[24:49.260 --> 24:50.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: It didn't really happen.
[24:51.040 --> 24:52.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: What is reality?
[24:52.220 --> 25:00.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're really getting philosophical here, but it's in just a few months since this hit the public.
[25:01.600 --> 25:05.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're being hit with an awful lot to handle.
[25:05.740 --> 25:20.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, I think because there's so much audio, and that example specifically for us would be a problem that I don't even really like talking about it because I'm imaginative and creative enough, you know, why feed ideas?
[25:20.280 --> 25:21.160]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't want to be bothered.
[25:21.360 --> 25:24.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: You know, most people don't want to be bothered by people abusing technology.
[25:25.120 --> 25:38.200]  [SPEAKER_17]: So I think there's real risk, and if you take steps to kind of protect yourself, that's the kind of stuff that's going to protect you.
[25:38.420 --> 25:46.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: So I don't know, I mean, sitting around talking about how a voice could be used to upend your life, I mean, that's just something I'm just not going to bargain with.
[25:46.280 --> 25:47.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I mean, this is what we do.
[25:47.460 --> 26:00.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: We always figure out ways to abuse technology and ways to make it stronger, ways to make it better, and ways to not just believe whatever it is that we are confronted the time.
[26:01.000 --> 26:05.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's fake or it's got ulterior motives.
[26:06.380 --> 26:19.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Speaking of impersonating people, this story from a site called Hackread, Facebook, the popular social media platform owned by Meta, recently, was that necessary?
[26:20.740 --> 26:23.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Did you need to explain what Facebook was?
[26:24.040 --> 26:25.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Who hasn't heard about Facebook?
[26:26.020 --> 26:27.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, we know it's the popular social media.
[26:27.800 --> 26:32.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's like saying, you know, the sun, the big bright object that you see in the sky in the daytime.
[26:33.160 --> 26:34.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: You don't need it.
[26:34.280 --> 26:35.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: You don't need to say that.
[26:35.580 --> 26:37.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sorry, don't mean to edit on the air.
[26:37.780 --> 26:44.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Anyway, Facebook recently encountered a glitch that resulted in unintended friend requests being sent to users.
[26:44.620 --> 26:44.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: The horror.
[26:46.180 --> 26:54.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: When they visited certain profiles, this technical oversight generated a mix of amusement and confusion among users.
[26:54.120 --> 26:56.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a fine line between those two realms.
[26:56.400 --> 27:00.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: It temporarily disrupted the practice of Facebook stalking.
[27:01.540 --> 27:02.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: That sounds like a good thing.
[27:03.060 --> 27:09.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: The bug not only impacted user privacy, but also raised concerns about the company's ongoing workforce reduction plans.
[27:11.160 --> 27:16.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Meta swiftly acknowledged the Facebook glitch, issued an apology, citing it as a consequence of a recent app update.
[27:17.020 --> 27:24.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: The company stated the bug, as they said, had been fixed, ensuring the intended friend request would no longer occur.
[27:25.220 --> 27:28.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Users who were affected received an apology for any inconvenience caused.
[27:30.580 --> 27:36.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, they said, we fixed a bug related to a recent app update that caused some Facebook friend requests to be sent mistakenly.
[27:36.540 --> 27:37.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: We stopped this from happening.
[27:37.980 --> 27:40.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.
[27:42.200 --> 27:46.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: And apparently, people are worrying about the breach of privacy.
[27:46.400 --> 27:51.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: In certain cases, the glitch led to friend requests being sent to individual users were trying to block.
[27:51.660 --> 28:00.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: In other words, people that were supposedly being blocked were sending friend requests, which is very upsetting to people who are blocking them, obviously.
[28:01.160 --> 28:08.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: That glitch served as a reminder of the potential risks associated with online platforms and the need for stringent privacy settings.
[28:10.500 --> 28:20.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, yeah, you know, we see these stories about Facebook all the time and about how people's accounts are taken over and compromised.
[28:20.500 --> 28:22.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: I guess this is just a version of that.
[28:22.760 --> 28:30.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm looking at another story here from one of the ABC channels about this poor person who lost 15 years of memories.
[28:31.340 --> 28:37.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it all started when she received a private message from what she thought was one of her friends, but the friend had been hacked.
[28:37.580 --> 28:40.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: And when she clicked on a link, her account was hacked as well.
[28:40.800 --> 28:41.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Never click on the links.
[28:42.620 --> 28:53.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: They immediately changed the recovery, phone number, email, so that whoever's account, they can't recover their account, according to a security expert.
[28:54.460 --> 29:04.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: She said the hackers then sent out this message to her friends, claimed she made money using Bitcoin, urging them to invest, and they clicked on it and they were compromised as well.
[29:06.440 --> 29:17.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: And here's the thing, this is what drew me to this particular story, is that the person who was victimized here, her main complaint is that Facebook has absolutely no way to reach them.
[29:17.700 --> 29:21.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's no customer support to talk to a person to resolve this.
[29:21.740 --> 29:29.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: They automate so many processes, so many of the things that you're able to change with your account, and oftentimes, these are critical things that become difficult to undo.
[29:29.420 --> 29:38.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: You reach out to the company, you try to get that personalized customer service, and you wait months and months before you're at the head of the queue, and that makes it almost impossible to correct these kinds of intrusions.
[29:38.200 --> 29:41.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: And then you have people who literally have lost 15 years of memories.
[29:41.740 --> 29:42.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: That should never happen.
[29:43.060 --> 29:47.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: First of all, you can always revert, you can always go back to months ago, years ago even.
[29:48.460 --> 29:51.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: So there's no reason for somebody to lose everything.
[29:51.360 --> 29:55.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the other thing is that people should not put their entire lives onto social media.
[29:55.740 --> 30:01.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: You should always have something local that you control because, you know, Facebook could disappear tomorrow for one reason or another.
[30:02.140 --> 30:08.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: But this whole lack of customer service, I've noticed this in many, many places.
[30:09.020 --> 30:15.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Many of the big tech companies these days, try calling somebody at Google, try calling somebody at Facebook, Twitter.
[30:15.800 --> 30:20.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hey, we've been having issues with Twitter because we're trying to get that Hope username.
[30:20.780 --> 30:22.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's no humans to speak to.
[30:22.800 --> 30:31.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we finally tricked somebody into answering us because, you know, the Hope username has been unused for years.
[30:31.160 --> 30:34.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: We never had it, but somebody did and they stopped using it.
[30:35.000 --> 30:37.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we figure, you know, we run the Hope conferences.
[30:37.560 --> 30:39.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wouldn't it be nice to have a Twitter username that said Hope?
[30:40.720 --> 30:44.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: So Elon Musk said, yeah, we're getting rid of all the accounts that aren't being used.
[30:45.120 --> 30:47.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: It sounded like a, you know, a made-in-heaven type of a thing.
[30:48.140 --> 30:54.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: So we got through to somebody and asked them, well, how do we get to the head of the line for this particular account?
[30:54.560 --> 30:59.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we just were met with the same, I'm sorry, we cannot help with inactive accounts.
[30:59.700 --> 31:01.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: We cannot assign inactive accounts.
[31:01.560 --> 31:04.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the point is, it's an inactive account.
[31:04.740 --> 31:08.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's what you're saying you're doing is deleting inactive accounts.
[31:08.840 --> 31:19.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: And all we're asking is, how do we get that inactive account for the organization that has the same name as the account before some megacorporation does and squats on it?
[31:21.000 --> 31:22.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: So I hear this.
[31:22.980 --> 31:27.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: I hear this in many, many places that people are trying to get customer service.
[31:27.620 --> 31:34.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it's not a question of a company being too small, not having the funds to run some kind of customer support.
[31:36.160 --> 31:37.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm making billions.
[31:37.500 --> 31:39.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're doing quite well.
[31:39.780 --> 31:41.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we're the product.
[31:41.700 --> 31:43.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're the ones that are making that possible.
[31:43.280 --> 31:48.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: So I think a little customer service is in order on many, many fronts.
[31:48.980 --> 31:49.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, Alex?
[31:50.720 --> 31:56.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is a problem not just for customers, but, you know, think about these platforms.
[31:56.560 --> 32:19.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we've known since 2016 that, you know, sophisticated cyber adversaries have used these social media platforms to do really bad things like interfere with our democratic processes and elections that they are used to propel massive fraud that's inflicted on people when it comes to things like cryptocurrency scams that,
[32:20.080 --> 32:26.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: like you said, Emmanuel, people lose, you know, 15 years of their memories and photos.
[32:26.680 --> 32:49.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Their life savings essentially can be wiped out, you know, as part of us and when you're even when you're trying to report malicious activity or criminal activity on these platforms there's nobody there often at the other end of the line or use their abuse reporting line it goes into some ticketing system and who knows when you're going to get some kind of response it can be days it can be weeks
[32:49.920 --> 33:06.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: but it's frankly unacceptable when we know that these platforms are used for so many bad things Maybe it's time, given the profit margins that we're seeing at the moment, to take a page from how insurance companies are regulated.
[33:06.980 --> 33:08.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: Think about this in a sense.
[33:08.400 --> 33:20.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Insurance companies are required to have some minimum amount of reserves on hand so that if somebody makes a claim, there's money that's on hand in order to pay out those claims.
[33:20.560 --> 33:24.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: And those reserves are very, very heavily regulated from state to state.
[33:24.840 --> 33:30.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I know that there are some insurance colleagues of ours that are probably listening to the show.
[33:30.940 --> 33:35.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: We'd love to hear from them at overtime, if possible, on this issue.
[33:35.340 --> 33:49.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: But what if the same type of resource reserve regulation applied to social media platforms, where you had to have a certain number of people on hand to answer your customers' questions?
[33:49.560 --> 33:54.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because you know that digital threats can spill over into physical violence.
[33:54.480 --> 33:58.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: It can cause things like insurrections at the Capitol, election interference.
[33:58.880 --> 34:06.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: We've seen, you know, pretty clearly how things can go wildly out of hand in places like Burma and Myanmar as well.
[34:06.560 --> 34:17.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, maybe it's high time that we force them to have these types of employees on hand, because there's really no excuse for them not to, given the profit margins that you mentioned.
[34:17.740 --> 34:18.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mm-hmm.
[34:18.960 --> 34:19.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Absolutely.
[34:19.760 --> 34:21.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's called responsibility.
[34:21.060 --> 34:24.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I think it's time we hold them to that.
[34:24.920 --> 34:35.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Speaking of accounts that are being deleted after a period of inactivity, now Google is saying they're going to be deleting accounts that are inactive for two years or more.
[34:36.580 --> 34:42.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: This, of course, is raising some concern about if that applies to YouTube videos, because YouTube is owned by Google.
[34:42.780 --> 34:46.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: But for now, I think we're talking about Gmail accounts.
[34:48.260 --> 34:51.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, they're saying that they're doing this as a way to prevent spam.
[34:51.920 --> 34:55.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: I get more spam from Gmail than I think anywhere else.
[34:55.860 --> 35:03.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: But their blog post says that abandoned accounts are at least 10 times less likely than active accounts to have two-step verification set up.
[35:03.860 --> 35:07.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: And once they get compromised, they become vectors for spam and identity theft.
[35:08.000 --> 35:14.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Deleting old accounts and freeing up storage is also probably a good way to cut cost, which has been a thing at Google lately.
[35:14.880 --> 35:16.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's according to this Ars Technica article.
[35:16.640 --> 35:19.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, anyone else see a problem with this?
[35:19.600 --> 35:26.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're basically saying that, you know, if an account is set up and is sending spam, it's okay.
[35:27.240 --> 35:28.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it's fine.
[35:28.700 --> 35:29.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: No problem at all.
[35:30.240 --> 35:36.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: The accounts that aren't doing anything, those are the ones that must be deleted because they might be turned into an account down the road.
[35:37.140 --> 35:42.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: But they're not doing anything to actually deal with the spam problem that exists currently.
[35:42.400 --> 35:54.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're trying to simply delete accounts that don't have two-factor authentication or haven't done anything in two years on the notion that one day it will be taken over and there'll be even more spam generated.
[35:55.080 --> 36:01.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I don't think it does anything to deal with all the accounts that are currently sending spam right now.
[36:01.660 --> 36:03.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Anyone else have a problem with that?
[36:05.040 --> 36:13.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I mean, the long and the short of it is that if you were okay not using it for two years, is there really anything in that account that you truly need?
[36:13.960 --> 36:24.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I can see where this is going to hurt people who weren't prepared, like things left in a Google Drive, who people might think, oh, you know, I have that somewhere.
[36:25.180 --> 36:26.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, old photos, old whatever.
[36:27.080 --> 36:28.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's going to disappear.
[36:29.840 --> 36:31.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, old emails, things like that.
[36:32.240 --> 36:51.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: We've long talked about on this program, the issue of when somebody passes away, what happens to their digital self, and how we really need to be aware that, you know, for those of us who remain after a loved one passes, like, we need to not only go through their physical items,
[36:52.060 --> 36:57.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: but go through their digital items as well and make sure we have backups of anything that's there that we want to keep.
[36:59.480 --> 37:11.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, apart from that, yeah, I remember just out of curiosity signing into an old Yahoo account and seeing, you know, nothing in the inbox but spam bots talking to each other.
[37:11.840 --> 37:14.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, you know, would that be a loss?
[37:14.980 --> 37:16.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think it really would.
[37:16.920 --> 37:18.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: But we have to be aware of what that means.
[37:19.780 --> 37:23.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I can just imagine people panicking over this.
[37:23.760 --> 37:27.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because people have been locked out of their accounts for one reason or another, realizing that it's going to be deleted.
[37:28.380 --> 37:32.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, of course, they can't reach anybody in customer service to help them regain control.
[37:34.320 --> 37:38.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: The great Google account purge is officially scheduled for December of 2023.
[37:40.040 --> 37:43.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, of course, people will get plenty of emails telling them this.
[37:43.180 --> 37:45.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, of course, that doesn't do you any good if you can't get into your account.
[37:46.640 --> 37:51.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, there should be some drama in the months ahead as this date approaches.
[37:52.400 --> 37:53.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, Alex, go ahead.
[37:54.180 --> 38:01.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: The other issue that comes to mind for me is how are they going to determine whether or not an account is inactive, according to that?
[38:01.640 --> 38:02.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: What constitutes inactive here?
[38:03.160 --> 38:06.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because a lot of people have Gmail accounts that they're just forwarding the mail somewhere else.
[38:06.880 --> 38:07.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's true.
[38:08.100 --> 38:08.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[38:08.800 --> 38:09.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, okay.
[38:10.100 --> 38:13.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is how you can tell Google that you are still there.
[38:14.620 --> 38:16.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Reading or sending an email.
[38:17.060 --> 38:21.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, again, I don't know what that means if you have your email forwarded someplace else.
[38:21.340 --> 38:25.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: I guess if you send an email and it goes through their servers, maybe that counts.
[38:26.020 --> 38:27.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Also, using Google Drive.
[38:27.860 --> 38:29.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Watching a YouTube video.
[38:29.460 --> 38:35.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: And what they mean by that is watching YouTube video with, you know, as logged in from your Google account.
[38:35.700 --> 38:39.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, if you're logged into your Google account, then I think that should count as activity on its own.
[38:40.300 --> 38:42.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Downloading an app on the Google Play Store.
[38:42.480 --> 38:43.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Using Google Search.
[38:43.900 --> 38:44.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Again, logged in.
[38:45.800 --> 38:49.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Using sign-in with Google to sign into a third-party app or service.
[38:49.940 --> 38:52.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it's relatively easy to do any of these things.
[38:52.780 --> 38:55.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I think, you know, all they have to say is just log in.
[38:55.660 --> 38:59.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Log in to your Google account, which is part of your Gmail account.
[38:59.740 --> 39:02.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we know you're still there.
[39:02.800 --> 39:03.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead, Alex.
[39:04.200 --> 39:17.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the obvious import of all of this is that they want you to be logged into your Google account so that they can amass data about your activities across all of your devices, across your browsers, across everything you're doing.
[39:18.000 --> 39:24.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they're just basically giving people some kind of reason to re-log in so that they can collect more data.
[39:24.940 --> 39:26.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Exactly, yes.
[39:26.300 --> 39:34.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if you use Google without logging in, which you can do and which I encourage people to do, they don't like that because they're not really gathering.
[39:34.280 --> 39:37.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: They can still get your IP, but they can't get your username.
[39:37.560 --> 39:39.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: They don't know exactly who you are.
[39:39.660 --> 39:48.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: And so many people, you know, you read about the people whose search and histories have been searched by the authorities because they committed some kind of a crime or suspected of something.
[39:48.260 --> 39:52.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Those are people who were signed in searching on Google.
[39:52.740 --> 40:03.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you're not signed in, it becomes a lot harder for any authority to figure out what it is you're interested in or looking up or collaborating on.
[40:03.520 --> 40:06.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, you know, you might say, okay, it's criminal behavior.
[40:07.060 --> 40:08.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: They get what's coming to them.
[40:08.220 --> 40:11.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: But in many cases, it's activism.
[40:11.840 --> 40:15.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's people fighting for democracy in some country, someplace.
[40:16.380 --> 40:19.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they have the same risks to face for other reasons.
[40:19.640 --> 40:19.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, Rob.
[40:20.780 --> 40:30.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: The other population I just thought of that this could affect is people who are arrested and have to serve a jail sentence, maybe spend a couple of years away from connectivity.
[40:31.740 --> 40:39.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: And so if someone in that situation leaves behind a Google account and is gone for more than two years, when they come back, it'll be gone.
[40:40.300 --> 40:40.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's true.
[40:41.180 --> 40:41.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's true.
[40:41.720 --> 40:42.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's a good point.
[40:42.480 --> 40:43.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: I never even thought of that.
[40:43.480 --> 40:43.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wow.
[40:45.040 --> 40:45.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[40:46.620 --> 40:51.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: A story about ChatGPT that was posted on Forbes.
[40:52.180 --> 40:56.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: This was apparently going viral over Reddit the past weekend.
[40:58.180 --> 41:07.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: This particular post said, my professor revealed to us that a student in his class used ChatGPT to write their essay, got a zero and was promptly suspended.
[41:07.480 --> 41:12.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: And all he had to do, all the professor had to do was ask ChatGPT if it wrote the essay.
[41:14.300 --> 41:14.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[41:15.260 --> 41:15.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[41:15.280 --> 41:18.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: And so that is putting people into a panic.
[41:19.880 --> 41:32.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I think we can all say with some degree of authority that it's nonsense, that you can't just ask artificial intelligence, is this artificial intelligence, and get a truthful answer.
[41:32.800 --> 41:43.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: What you can count on is some professor thinking, hey, you know, this is the way to put the fear of the Lord into my students that they don't ever use ChatGPT to write an essay by telling them that this happened to somebody.
[41:45.540 --> 41:47.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they'll start wondering if they're next.
[41:47.720 --> 41:48.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can do that.
[41:48.880 --> 41:56.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, you know, try it, you know, have something written by ChatGPT, feed it right back into it and say, did you write this?
[41:57.100 --> 41:58.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're not going to own up to it.
[41:59.220 --> 42:00.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: They won't.
[42:00.400 --> 42:05.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, you know, there are supposedly apps out there that will detect this.
[42:05.200 --> 42:12.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: I fed one of my own pieces into it, and it told me that it was written by ChatGPT.
[42:12.340 --> 42:12.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: It lied.
[42:14.320 --> 42:22.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: And artificial intelligence got credit for writing something that I wrote, unless I'm actually part of some experiment that I haven't yet realized.
[42:22.880 --> 42:28.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: These are the questions we're all going to be facing in months, years, decades ahead.
[42:28.600 --> 42:37.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I think, you know, you're seeing a degree of panic everywhere in newsrooms, in college professor lounges.
[42:38.200 --> 42:43.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: People are worried that there's going to be a lot of cheating.
[42:44.140 --> 42:49.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I think, you know, if you're awake, if you're paying attention, you'll be able to figure it out.
[42:49.800 --> 42:50.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: You'll be able to see.
[42:50.600 --> 42:53.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: You'll find the signs in one way or another.
[42:53.300 --> 42:53.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Kyle?
[42:53.800 --> 43:09.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, in that instance, I think that might be just a bit of subterfuge so that they think that this is so simple, but maybe in actuality it's to hide the tools that they might have access to in academia.
[43:09.500 --> 43:18.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: Because they've been doing, you know, software-based recognition for plagiarism and so forth in higher education for quite some time.
[43:18.860 --> 43:38.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: So I would not put it past the kinds of developers that provide these tools for university and educational environments that they're trying to add on or make modules or ways of incorporating some of the new tools that use this stuff.
[43:38.800 --> 43:43.300]  [SPEAKER_17]: But I don't think it is as, like, drag and drop as that teacher may have said.
[43:43.500 --> 43:45.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, you know, plagiarism is easy.
[43:45.540 --> 43:49.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it's easy to detect that because you're looking for the same words.
[43:49.240 --> 43:51.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're looking for, you know, a similar sentence structure.
[43:52.040 --> 43:54.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: And here it's a bit more creative.
[43:55.040 --> 43:56.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, you know, there's other ways to tell, too.
[43:56.900 --> 44:09.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Even if you can't tell for sure if your student has used ChatGPT to put something together, you'll know if they can't actually explain what they're talking about.
[44:09.720 --> 44:16.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: If, you know, apart from just being nervous, if they actually don't have a grasp of the subject, you'll know.
[44:16.560 --> 44:26.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's other ways besides what is being written on a piece of paper or on a disk to determine if somebody is actually cheating or not.
[44:29.500 --> 44:29.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[44:30.340 --> 44:35.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: There was a there was a reply to the Reddit post about this that blew up on the ChatGPT subreddit.
[44:35.740 --> 44:42.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: And a reply by someone called MyRedShoeLaces says, I've put decade old college essays into ChatGPT4 and asked who wrote it.
[44:42.740 --> 44:43.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: GPT4 claims it wrote them.
[44:44.040 --> 44:47.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Even after I tell it to correct itself because I wrote them, it will initially apologize.
[44:47.720 --> 44:51.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: But when asking it again in the same conversation, it will claim it wrote them again.
[44:51.120 --> 44:53.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: AI detection is a load of utter BS.
[44:55.260 --> 45:02.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it goes on to discuss that ChatGPT is a large language model and it's not in itself an AI detector.
[45:03.220 --> 45:08.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Its job is to answer your questions with text that's somewhat shaped like a reasonable answer.
[45:09.000 --> 45:13.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: It doesn't fact check those as we've explored very much on this program over the past months.
[45:13.720 --> 45:15.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: It doesn't, you know, make sure that it's correct.
[45:15.900 --> 45:21.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: It just constructs something that the algorithm thinks would be an answer to that question.
[45:21.780 --> 45:24.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, ChatGPT, it's a big fat phony.
[45:24.280 --> 45:24.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's what it is.
[45:25.100 --> 45:25.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[45:25.720 --> 45:26.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a big fat phony.
[45:27.340 --> 45:29.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: But it wants you to think that it did it, right?
[45:29.800 --> 45:29.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[45:29.900 --> 45:30.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: So the more...
[45:31.560 --> 45:37.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: If it's a language learning model, anything it grabs, it's, you know, it's like the Borg, basically.
[45:37.920 --> 45:39.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anything, it assimilates everything.
[45:39.720 --> 45:42.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: So if you give ChatGPT something, it's going to think it wrote it.
[45:42.860 --> 45:45.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's going to think it's part of itself, right?
[45:45.760 --> 45:46.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Isn't that how it works?
[45:46.620 --> 45:46.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: Sure.
[45:46.740 --> 45:47.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't know.
[45:47.360 --> 45:56.420]  [SPEAKER_17]: I feel like if you made a limited mode of this, and there are other types of these language models out there.
[45:56.420 --> 46:01.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: There's a lot being made of some of the open-source versions of this that are emerging.
[46:02.640 --> 46:06.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't know if we have any stories about that, but we can cover it in detail later.
[46:06.340 --> 46:32.020]  [SPEAKER_17]: But if you made a sample that was only trained on a class of, like, 33 people that only write and have written, you know, their samples, and that's all it's based on, and maybe some other dictionaries or something really, really pared down, and then one of those 33 comes through with something that it's not recognizing.
[46:32.280 --> 46:36.060]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, I guess that's something that they would use as a tool for plagiarism.
[46:36.160 --> 46:45.720]  [SPEAKER_17]: But I feel like if you limited it enough, it would notice an aberration in one of those 33 that it had a very limited sample of.
[46:45.720 --> 47:05.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: instead of having something like GPT-4 or, you know, Infinity or whatever they're on now, like, instead of that being, you know, this so comprehensive, if you made it narrow, I feel like it would maybe be able to see that, like, hey, this is not the way this person has used language before.
[47:05.360 --> 47:10.620]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I predict its certainty that it's wrong or faked in some way.
[47:10.780 --> 47:13.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, we're going to have to leave it there as far as this particular conversation.
[47:13.740 --> 47:18.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: We can pick this up in overtime at Channel2600 on YouTube at 8 o'clock.
[47:19.320 --> 47:20.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Please join us there.
[47:21.100 --> 47:26.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: I wanted to spend the last couple of minutes of the program discussing what's on all of our minds, especially you guys out in Skype-land.
[47:26.920 --> 47:29.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Eurovision, what was your favorite Eurovision piece this weekend?
[47:33.300 --> 47:33.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Really?
[47:33.740 --> 47:34.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Nobody?
[47:34.480 --> 47:34.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Nothing?
[47:35.660 --> 47:36.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't watch it.
[47:36.740 --> 47:41.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Are we that American that we have no interest in what's going on in foreign lands?
[47:42.440 --> 47:48.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, I read the FT and things, but, you know, Eurovision wasn't...
[47:48.600 --> 47:52.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're trying to compare reading Financial Times to...
[47:52.500 --> 47:52.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, fine.
[47:53.340 --> 47:54.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's... Yeah, okay.
[47:58.300 --> 48:00.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so tell us, Emmanuel.
[48:00.760 --> 48:05.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I'm just... I was giving you the opportunity to basically say if there are any pieces.
[48:05.000 --> 48:12.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because, okay, what Eurovision is, is this international competition, mostly in Europe, but they also include Israel and Australia.
[48:14.020 --> 48:16.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's basically, each country has a song.
[48:16.900 --> 48:17.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's about 40 countries.
[48:18.260 --> 48:20.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they have a competition over an entire weekend.
[48:21.060 --> 48:23.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Every song has a video attached to it.
[48:23.220 --> 48:24.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: No song is more than three minutes long.
[48:24.620 --> 48:27.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can look at all the videos on YouTube.
[48:27.960 --> 48:32.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: And inside of a week, I got to memorize all of these songs.
[48:32.460 --> 48:33.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're that catchy.
[48:33.540 --> 48:37.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're kind of... they're a throwback to your childhood where every song was something that you remembered.
[48:37.920 --> 48:47.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the thing is, what I found amazing is the activism that you see basically raising its head in all the expression.
[48:47.560 --> 48:50.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: For instance, Ukraine won last year.
[48:51.020 --> 48:53.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: And as a winner, they got to host it this year.
[48:54.040 --> 48:55.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, of course, they couldn't host it because of the war.
[48:55.880 --> 48:57.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: So it was hosted in Liverpool.
[48:57.720 --> 49:03.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: And Liverpool just pulled out all the stops for Ukraine, putting Ukrainian flags everywhere and just showing all kinds of support.
[49:03.660 --> 49:14.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a really beautiful show of just, you know, art and music and activism, like I said.
[49:15.540 --> 49:18.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Anyway, one of my favorites was Croatia.
[49:19.160 --> 49:24.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I really thought these guys did an incredible job with an anti-war song.
[49:25.640 --> 49:28.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: The band is called Let Three.
[49:28.660 --> 49:34.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, they caused a bit of a stir online with a drag meets military pomp extravaganza.
[49:35.340 --> 49:40.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you just have to watch the video to see for yourself just what these guys got up to.
[49:41.400 --> 49:44.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Basically, they said we're a bit surprised at people's reaction.
[49:44.900 --> 49:47.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: But when it pays off, it's so exciting.
[49:47.740 --> 49:58.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: The inspiration behind the song, which we're going to close out the show with, they revealed it came about through members of the band putting on an adaption of an anti-war play.
[49:58.980 --> 50:04.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: And through that, the idea of making a small and condensed anti-war rock opera came.
[50:04.980 --> 50:08.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mama SC is the name of the song as the result of that process.
[50:10.020 --> 50:13.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: They said we're presenting an army of love.
[50:13.300 --> 50:15.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's military, but it's positively military.
[50:16.480 --> 50:20.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, looking at this video, I'm reminded of Johannes more than anything.
[50:20.980 --> 50:26.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you guys, you know, anyone who's been to Hope, you need to watch this because I think you'll definitely feel the same thing.
[50:27.460 --> 50:30.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: It is the right time to send a message like this without any further explanation.
[50:32.400 --> 50:37.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: And bandmate Damir Motinovich added, it is the army of my ass.
[50:37.420 --> 50:39.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you can just interpret that however you wish.
[50:39.040 --> 50:49.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: But just a couple of things about the band Let Three, so that people can appreciate how they basically stand up to authority and just do what they please.
[50:49.280 --> 50:51.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I hope that's what our listeners always do.
[50:52.320 --> 50:56.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let Three was formed in the city of Rajika in the late 1980s.
[50:56.200 --> 50:57.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, they've been around for quite some time.
[50:58.040 --> 51:07.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: The band soon gained a reputation for their unprecedented, controversial and sometimes obscene performances, exemplifying the eclectic nature of Rajika's music scene.
[51:07.120 --> 51:09.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: And now I want to see that place more than anything.
[51:09.440 --> 51:19.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: The band's members have voiced support for liberal causes such as women's and LGBT rights and have taken a vocal stance against conservative politics and the Catholic Church.
[51:21.220 --> 51:28.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: In 1997, the band released their fifth album titled Outrageous or Unheard Of in English.
[51:28.540 --> 51:32.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: It was distributed as a CD, but it had nothing recorded on it.
[51:32.720 --> 51:33.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Nothing at all.
[51:33.620 --> 51:36.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Nonetheless, 350 copies of the album were sold.
[51:36.760 --> 51:38.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Just one copy of their follow-up.
[51:38.800 --> 51:41.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Jadina, the only one, was initially made.
[51:41.320 --> 51:43.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: The band refused to sell or distribute it.
[51:43.300 --> 51:43.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: One copy.
[51:44.480 --> 51:47.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: The record company eventually released the album in slightly different versions.
[51:48.140 --> 51:54.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: And as a protest to that, the band staged a fake suicide by firing squad in the middle of the square in Zagreb.
[51:56.340 --> 52:01.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: As you can see, record companies probably have all kinds of nightmares working with them.
[52:01.300 --> 52:11.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: In late 2000, the band unveiled a four-meter-tall statue titled Grandma's Penis, depicting a woman with a horseshoe mustache and a one-meter-long phallus.
[52:12.080 --> 52:14.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: It was exhibited in various cities through Croatia.
[52:15.300 --> 52:17.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, Eurovision's not exactly what you thought it was, is it?
[52:17.780 --> 52:22.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, it's really interesting and really a whole lot of fun to just witness.
[52:22.260 --> 52:29.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: In December 2006, the band was sanctioned by police after performing naked at an open-air concert in Varazdin.
[52:30.140 --> 52:35.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: The band's defense that they had not been naked because they had corks in their anuses did not convince the judge.
[52:35.420 --> 52:39.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: The court found them guilty and fined each member approximately 50 euro.
[52:40.360 --> 52:53.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: On December 14th, 2008, the live afternoon talk show, Nedjelam Edeva, was cut short by the host after two of the band members simulated the ejection of a cork from their rectums.
[52:54.720 --> 52:57.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, and it's all kinds of other things as well.
[52:58.220 --> 53:13.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: December 9th, last year, LET3 was announced as one of 18 participants in the regional competition to come up with a song for Eurovision, the Croatian national selection for the Eurovision Song Contest of 2023.
[53:13.440 --> 53:20.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: And their song, Mama SC, which we're about to hear, was selected overwhelmingly by the crowd in Croatia.
[53:20.640 --> 53:23.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: And this is what we have times 40.
[53:23.280 --> 53:24.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's what Eurovision is.
[53:24.400 --> 53:26.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: So next year, folks, I help people in America.
[53:27.100 --> 53:31.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's hard to find, but you can watch it in various streaming platforms.
[53:32.180 --> 53:33.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's so worth it.
[53:33.480 --> 53:36.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you feel like you're a part of something even bigger.
[53:37.480 --> 53:39.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: So that's why I get into things like this.
[53:39.960 --> 53:41.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a different, unique system.
[53:42.500 --> 53:45.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: So we're going out with the Croatian song from Eurovision.
[53:45.320 --> 53:53.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're going to join you again at 8 o'clock on YouTube, Channel2600, or just click on the link on the 2600.com web page.
[53:54.240 --> 53:57.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: And write to us, oth@2600.com.
[53:57.320 --> 54:02.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: And don't forget to support WBAI.org or WBAI 99.5 FM.
[54:02.480 --> 54:06.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: And call 212-209-2950 to make a pledge.
[54:07.140 --> 54:10.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we will see you next... in two weeks.
[54:10.760 --> 54:11.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: We are off next week.
[54:12.720 --> 54:13.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Here's left three.
[54:15.740 --> 54:17.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mama!
[54:44.820 --> 54:46.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: We'll see you next time.
[54:47.760 --> 54:49.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mama loved Morona.
[54:49.460 --> 54:52.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mama loved Morona.
[54:54.040 --> 54:57.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Kainanina Armageddon Rona.
[54:57.840 --> 55:01.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mama, I'm a
[55:14.960 --> 55:18.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: moron!
[55:19.400 --> 55:25.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: He's a small psychopath, a small, poor psychopath.
[56:37.280 --> 56:42.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: And welcome, everybody, to Off The Hook Overtime here on YouTube.
[56:43.300 --> 56:45.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: You've made it to Channel2600.
[56:46.100 --> 56:48.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: And let's see if other people have made it as well.
[56:48.440 --> 56:49.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Kyle, did you make it over?
[56:49.640 --> 56:50.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I'm here.
[56:50.340 --> 56:51.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, good, good.
[56:52.580 --> 56:53.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Who else?
[56:53.260 --> 56:55.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: I forgot who we... Oh, Rob, did you make it?
[56:56.560 --> 56:57.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, indeed, I did.
[56:57.560 --> 56:59.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it looks like Gila made it as well.
[56:59.460 --> 57:00.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: I did, indeed.
[57:00.780 --> 57:01.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: And Alex?
[57:02.660 --> 57:03.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm present.
[57:03.580 --> 57:03.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[57:04.280 --> 57:16.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: And again, for the first time ever, we have live chat enabled on the channel, something that we have resisted, saying it's probably a bad idea, but why not see how bad an idea it actually is.
[57:17.520 --> 57:21.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Gila, can you report on your responsibilities so far as moderator?
[57:21.740 --> 57:23.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Have you met any challenges?
[57:24.060 --> 57:35.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: I would like to thank everyone in the chat for their forbearance and for, in fact, listening and stopping like the good little hackers you all are.
[57:36.460 --> 57:36.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, yeah.
[57:36.940 --> 57:38.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's going to ensure compliance.
[57:39.200 --> 57:41.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: I actually just read that right off the chat.
[57:43.140 --> 57:45.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: I do, however, have a question.
[57:45.260 --> 57:48.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: As promised, I will push it to overtime now.
[57:49.400 --> 57:52.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, so now we have another source of questions.
[57:52.320 --> 57:53.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: So that's the purpose of chat.
[57:53.880 --> 57:55.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's why we have chat.
[57:55.580 --> 57:56.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: So...
[57:56.060 --> 57:56.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Exactly.
[57:56.500 --> 58:02.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: So the question was, do you make more money from a lifetime subscription or a lifetime of subscriptions?
[58:03.100 --> 58:09.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, you mean, does the magazine benefit more from people subscribing every year or a lifetime?
[58:09.260 --> 58:10.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's, you know, it's hard to say.
[58:10.560 --> 58:14.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: It really depends on how you look at it.
[58:14.780 --> 58:16.200]  [SPEAKER_17]: What kind of shape you're in?
[58:16.320 --> 58:17.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I mean, 10...
[58:17.180 --> 58:22.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, as far as they go, it's from every person who's spending the money.
[58:22.940 --> 58:32.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: But as far as the magazine, obviously, it's more of an initial benefit to have a lifetime subscription because, you know, you're paying for however long we're around for.
[58:32.160 --> 58:37.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: In the future, whereas, you know, 10 years down the road, nothing is coming in, but yet we're still sending you things.
[58:38.140 --> 58:44.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, you know, in the future, hopefully we have more people that are doing similar things or we have other income sources.
[58:45.120 --> 58:56.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: But in the initial period right now, obviously, we benefit mostly from lifetime subscriptions and that goes digitally and physically as well.
[58:56.660 --> 58:59.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: So that's the answer to that question.
[58:59.520 --> 58:59.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, Rob?
[59:00.800 --> 59:12.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I mean, another important factor in this question is how long you choose to survive because a lifetime subscription is until the magazine or the subscriber expires.
[59:12.740 --> 59:19.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, you know, try and live long, live clean, live well, and you'll be more likely to get your money's worth out of a lifetime subscription.
[59:19.900 --> 59:20.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's true.
[59:20.580 --> 59:20.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's true.
[59:21.220 --> 59:21.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[59:21.400 --> 59:23.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Lifetime is, you know, it's hard to define.
[59:23.480 --> 59:24.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Whose lifetime?
[59:24.040 --> 59:25.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: When does the lifetime end?
[59:26.520 --> 59:30.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's, yeah, we're getting into these metaphysical discussions again.
[59:30.820 --> 59:32.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: Just take your subscriptions seriously.
[59:32.880 --> 59:33.100]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh-huh.
[59:33.180 --> 59:33.600]  [SPEAKER_17]: Come on.
[59:33.820 --> 59:34.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's like...
[59:34.460 --> 59:39.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have had people donate their lifetime subscriptions back.
[59:39.300 --> 59:46.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, actually, I should say we've had people on behalf of those who have passed on, donate it back and ask if we can give it to somebody else.
[59:46.620 --> 59:47.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, and we have.
[59:47.720 --> 59:51.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, uh, lifetime continues, even after a lifetime sometimes.
[59:52.720 --> 59:54.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: A life well planned, yes.
[59:54.680 --> 59:54.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[59:55.040 --> 59:55.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: We will accommodate.
[59:56.260 --> 59:56.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[59:56.700 --> 59:57.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good question.
[59:57.260 --> 59:57.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good question.
[59:57.820 --> 59:58.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: That is a good question.
[59:58.200 --> 01:00:00.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: I should also point out we have a phone number.
[01:00:00.520 --> 01:00:07.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: More traditionally, if you want to call us, our phone number is 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK.
[01:00:07.780 --> 01:00:13.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: And then we can hear your voice as well, and you can ask us even more questions there or tell us things that are going on with you.
[01:00:13.880 --> 01:00:19.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, but, of course, uh, you know, uh, feel free to use the chat however you feel it should be used.
[01:00:19.480 --> 01:00:22.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: We want to see if it's, um, something that's compatible with what we want to do.
[01:00:25.620 --> 01:00:25.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Exactly.
[01:00:26.680 --> 01:00:27.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, it is...
[01:00:27.800 --> 01:00:33.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, I'm sorry, we did have a question in the chat, um, which is, what is slow mode in chat?
[01:00:33.720 --> 01:00:34.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Another question, huh?
[01:00:35.120 --> 01:00:36.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wow, the questions are just coming in.
[01:00:36.920 --> 01:00:37.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think it puts...
[01:00:37.640 --> 01:00:38.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, I don't resent this at all.
[01:00:38.940 --> 01:00:40.280]  [SPEAKER_17]: I think it puts it on delay.
[01:00:40.420 --> 01:00:41.300]  [SPEAKER_17]: I saw that as well.
[01:00:41.440 --> 01:00:42.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't know what it means.
[01:00:42.340 --> 01:00:43.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: I know what it means, because I set it up.
[01:00:44.180 --> 01:00:48.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Slow, slow mode means that, um, you have to wait a certain amount of time between posts.
[01:00:49.160 --> 01:00:52.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, in other words, you can't come up with a thought a second after another thought.
[01:00:52.860 --> 01:00:54.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: You have to wait a certain amount of time.
[01:00:54.780 --> 01:00:56.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I don't know what the time is.
[01:00:56.500 --> 01:00:58.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think it's 30 seconds, but I can't...
[01:00:58.300 --> 01:00:59.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's 30 seconds.
[01:00:59.380 --> 01:01:03.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's, it's a way to throttle the flood of posts.
[01:01:03.760 --> 01:01:09.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, we were kind of, you know, trying to get ahead of, um, certain situations.
[01:01:09.060 --> 01:01:11.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's a fail-safe for exuberance.
[01:01:11.500 --> 01:01:19.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, those people who, who post, uh, questions one word at a time and hit return after each word, you won't be able to do that.
[01:01:19.380 --> 01:01:23.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: You'll have to wait 30 seconds between each, each attempt, because it'll drive the moderators crazy otherwise.
[01:01:24.540 --> 01:01:25.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: You want to take this phone call?
[01:01:25.700 --> 01:01:26.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have a, we have a phone call.
[01:01:27.240 --> 01:01:27.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, good evening.
[01:01:28.100 --> 01:01:29.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:01:29.120 --> 01:01:29.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead.
[01:01:30.180 --> 01:01:30.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[01:01:30.740 --> 01:01:31.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[01:01:31.180 --> 01:01:31.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Here we are.
[01:01:31.860 --> 01:01:32.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wow.
[01:01:32.240 --> 01:01:33.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: It sounds like rebel rebel.
[01:01:33.900 --> 01:01:35.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Where, where are you now?
[01:01:36.200 --> 01:01:36.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, home.
[01:01:37.180 --> 01:01:38.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm in New York city.
[01:01:38.880 --> 01:01:39.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:01:39.380 --> 01:01:41.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm leaving for a rush until June 1st.
[01:01:41.620 --> 01:01:43.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, we thought maybe you were there now.
[01:01:44.160 --> 01:01:46.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I, I, I'm leaving June 1st.
[01:01:46.240 --> 01:01:47.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry for sounding disappointed.
[01:01:47.640 --> 01:01:48.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: I didn't mean it that way.
[01:01:49.080 --> 01:01:52.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: So June 7th, I'll try and call in if I'm not tired.
[01:01:52.280 --> 01:01:56.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, last year I was tired and it was four o'clock in the morning, so I didn't call in that time.
[01:01:56.000 --> 01:01:56.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a poor excuse.
[01:01:57.500 --> 01:01:59.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, how often do we get a call from, from Russia?
[01:02:00.340 --> 01:02:02.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: I know you did that when, uh, when you were overseas.
[01:02:02.940 --> 01:02:03.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:02:03.220 --> 01:02:04.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: I, I didn't use that excuse.
[01:02:04.620 --> 01:02:05.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: I stayed up.
[01:02:06.020 --> 01:02:06.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[01:02:06.480 --> 01:02:06.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: I stayed up.
[01:02:07.100 --> 01:02:07.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll try and stay up.
[01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:09.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's see.
[01:02:09.680 --> 01:02:10.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's see.
[01:02:10.240 --> 01:02:10.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:02:10.400 --> 01:02:10.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's see.
[01:02:11.420 --> 01:02:13.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm on the do not call list.
[01:02:13.320 --> 01:02:19.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: I've gone many US and you're on, you're on, you're on many do not call lists from my understanding.
[01:02:20.540 --> 01:02:35.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: But you, you know what they do now, you know, they, they have fines for people who call if you're on the do not call list and you, uh, you want to call a consumer, they, you know, they have the right to report the, the, the entity and find you.
[01:02:36.540 --> 01:02:40.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, no, um, um, I'm reading the chat.
[01:02:40.660 --> 01:02:41.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, all right.
[01:02:41.580 --> 01:02:42.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: See, this is what happens.
[01:02:42.780 --> 01:02:44.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: He's reading the chat while he's talking to us.
[01:02:44.480 --> 01:02:44.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[01:02:44.680 --> 01:02:45.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: He's distracted.
[01:02:45.240 --> 01:02:47.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're not, we're not getting a hundred percent rebel here.
[01:02:47.320 --> 01:02:50.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: We need, we need all of rebel, not just, you know, 60% of them.
[01:02:50.820 --> 01:02:52.020]  [SPEAKER_17]: And you can read it back.
[01:02:52.020 --> 01:02:58.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you could, you could, you could, they have AI calling and doing telemarketing.
[01:03:00.660 --> 01:03:02.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: You've noticed AI?
[01:03:02.580 --> 01:03:02.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:03:02.900 --> 01:03:05.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: They have artificial intelligence doing the telemarketing.
[01:03:05.580 --> 01:03:06.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: They have like recording thing.
[01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:11.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, you know, would you like to, you know, this is, uh, I see that you're on many or whatever.
[01:03:11.000 --> 01:03:11.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mentioned this before.
[01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:14.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then you'll, they'll wait for you to say yes or no, whatever.
[01:03:14.560 --> 01:03:24.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Or if you do go to a person, like, you know, like if you say, yes, uh, I'd like to speak to somebody about the thing and it'll be, the person will be like in the far East or Asia or something.
[01:03:24.240 --> 01:03:26.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: So you can't tell them, uh, do not call us.
[01:03:26.560 --> 01:03:27.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Please don't call me.
[01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:30.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: He just, you know, because they're in Asia or the far East.
[01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:36.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Rebel, we have the same conversation every time you call us.
[01:03:36.100 --> 01:03:39.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm wondering if you're artificial intelligence, because you keep telling us the same things.
[01:03:40.700 --> 01:03:41.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:03:41.540 --> 01:03:48.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: But maybe some new people don't have, now let's say some lists, some telemarketers have numbers that don't allow duplicate calls.
[01:03:48.180 --> 01:03:51.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like when I, I've been getting a lot of telemarketing calls on my cell phone.
[01:03:51.800 --> 01:03:58.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I would call the, I like to like call the telemarketing, I like to like make a call and then put it on three way.
[01:03:58.520 --> 01:04:00.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I, on my cell phone, I could do like five way.
[01:04:01.100 --> 01:04:05.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: I could put that call on hold and, and, you know, conference another one in and, you know what I mean?
[01:04:05.100 --> 01:04:13.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: I could do like a five party line type thing, but it doesn't, it says, uh, uh, multiple calls are not allowed on this line or just whatever.
[01:04:16.440 --> 01:04:17.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Was that a question?
[01:04:19.160 --> 01:04:21.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, no, I'm just, it's a mention.
[01:04:21.440 --> 01:04:21.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:22.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a mention.
[01:04:22.800 --> 01:04:23.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's a, it's a good mention.
[01:04:23.980 --> 01:04:25.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's move on to the next mention.
[01:04:25.880 --> 01:04:27.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: I like mention as a noun.
[01:04:27.700 --> 01:04:29.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: One, one drink.
[01:04:29.240 --> 01:04:31.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'll be drinking vodka when I go to Russia.
[01:04:31.580 --> 01:04:33.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm drinking vodka right now.
[01:04:35.360 --> 01:04:37.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, let's see.
[01:04:37.640 --> 01:04:39.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, okay.
[01:04:39.940 --> 01:04:40.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: What else can I say?
[01:04:40.960 --> 01:04:44.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's add, does anybody want to ask me a question on the chat?
[01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:44.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:04:45.060 --> 01:04:46.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's, let's go to the chat.
[01:04:46.260 --> 01:04:48.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, no, you can't, you can't cross the two.
[01:04:48.920 --> 01:04:49.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[01:04:49.440 --> 01:04:50.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's against the rules.
[01:04:50.560 --> 01:04:52.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can't cross the chat into the, into the phone.
[01:04:53.400 --> 01:04:53.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: No.
[01:04:55.300 --> 01:04:57.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: If someone asks a question here, here's how it works.
[01:04:57.700 --> 01:05:02.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: If somebody asks a question on the chat, then Gila will mention it and bring it up to you.
[01:05:02.800 --> 01:05:03.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[01:05:03.480 --> 01:05:08.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can't talk directly to the chat that I'll let the first one go, but in the future, that's a violation.
[01:05:09.160 --> 01:05:09.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:10.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's see.
[01:05:10.600 --> 01:05:10.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: What else?
[01:05:11.880 --> 01:05:13.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, let's see.
[01:05:13.360 --> 01:05:13.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's call.
[01:05:13.680 --> 01:05:14.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's call.
[01:05:14.860 --> 01:05:15.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's see.
[01:05:15.640 --> 01:05:17.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Shall I, um, let's demonstrate something.
[01:05:18.700 --> 01:05:19.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's think.
[01:05:19.940 --> 01:05:21.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what we all wanted, isn't it?
[01:05:23.000 --> 01:05:27.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, hold on.
[01:05:27.040 --> 01:05:28.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, we're going to be put on hold.
[01:05:28.480 --> 01:05:32.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's going to be a long period of silence, and then we're going to be connected to something we can't disconnect from.
[01:05:32.620 --> 01:05:35.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: And eventually, Rebel will hang up in shame.
[01:05:35.740 --> 01:05:37.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: I figured that out.
[01:05:38.800 --> 01:05:39.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, let me just, hold on.
[01:05:41.540 --> 01:05:42.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm not going to call that.
[01:05:43.200 --> 01:05:43.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, don't call that.
[01:05:45.460 --> 01:05:45.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:05:47.220 --> 01:05:48.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's call this.
[01:05:48.360 --> 01:05:48.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: 202.
[01:05:49.180 --> 01:05:50.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't give the phone number out.
[01:05:51.000 --> 01:05:52.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, I'm not going to give the phone number out.
[01:05:52.380 --> 01:05:53.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, we know it's in Washington, D.C.
[01:05:53.620 --> 01:05:53.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: now.
[01:05:55.220 --> 01:05:55.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's not fair.
[01:05:57.040 --> 01:05:58.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: The 629 exchange.
[01:05:58.240 --> 01:05:59.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, my God, you have the exchange.
[01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:01.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: You just have four more numbers to go.
[01:06:03.760 --> 01:06:05.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'm dialing the phone numbers.
[01:06:05.980 --> 01:06:06.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hold on.
[01:06:18.720 --> 01:06:19.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Emmanuel?
[01:06:20.360 --> 01:06:21.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, I'm still here.
[01:06:21.840 --> 01:06:21.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: No.
[01:06:22.760 --> 01:06:22.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:06:23.460 --> 01:06:24.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's the weekend.
[01:06:24.460 --> 01:06:26.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Help you find another business in the area.
[01:06:26.760 --> 01:06:27.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: What?
[01:06:27.320 --> 01:06:27.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's recording.
[01:06:27.840 --> 01:06:28.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: What happened?
[01:06:28.300 --> 01:06:29.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, you're just telling us what it said?
[01:06:30.220 --> 01:06:33.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because I couldn't, uh, three-way, because it doesn't, um...
[01:06:33.220 --> 01:06:35.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because it doesn't, um, it doesn't, it wouldn't let me...
[01:06:35.400 --> 01:06:35.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:06:36.120 --> 01:06:38.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Rebel, again, we've had this conversation before.
[01:06:38.780 --> 01:06:41.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: If it doesn't supervise, you can't three-way.
[01:06:41.700 --> 01:06:43.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can only three-way after it connects.
[01:06:43.520 --> 01:06:45.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: So if you can't connect, you can't three-way.
[01:06:45.800 --> 01:06:46.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, obviously.
[01:06:47.120 --> 01:06:48.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, let's try this one.
[01:06:48.760 --> 01:06:49.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hold on.
[01:06:49.480 --> 01:06:49.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: 256.
[01:06:50.020 --> 01:06:50.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hold on.
[01:06:51.860 --> 01:06:52.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: There you go.
[01:06:52.680 --> 01:06:53.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: 256.
[01:06:55.180 --> 01:06:55.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is it me?
[01:06:56.080 --> 01:06:56.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is it me?
[01:06:56.480 --> 01:06:58.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just, I'm...
[01:06:59.060 --> 01:06:59.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, my goodness.
[01:07:01.720 --> 01:07:02.580]  [SPEAKER_17]: You've been clear.
[01:07:04.160 --> 01:07:05.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: You've been clear about it.
[01:07:05.540 --> 01:07:06.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: I think you've made the case.
[01:07:09.220 --> 01:07:09.880]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hold on.
[01:07:10.760 --> 01:07:12.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: What do you think we're doing?
[01:07:12.760 --> 01:07:15.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Why do people tell you to hold on when you don't have a choice?
[01:07:16.200 --> 01:07:16.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know?
[01:07:16.640 --> 01:07:17.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: So would it work?
[01:07:17.400 --> 01:07:23.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: If you're an attempt to reach you, your business will possibly receive up to $26,000 for every employee you maintained on payroll.
[01:07:23.960 --> 01:07:28.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: During the years 2020 and or 2021, you will not be required to pay it back.
[01:07:29.160 --> 01:07:30.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it is not a loan.
[01:07:30.100 --> 01:07:33.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, this is spam that we hear all the time.
[01:07:33.240 --> 01:07:35.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what you're sharing with us.
[01:07:35.680 --> 01:07:37.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: This reminds me of an AeroPress 8 to be removed.
[01:07:37.200 --> 01:07:37.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead, Gila.
[01:07:38.340 --> 01:07:38.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you can...
[01:07:38.720 --> 01:07:46.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: All I was going to say is that when Rebel says, hold on, it does sort of remind me of when you're on the subway.
[01:07:46.400 --> 01:07:48.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they're like, we're not moving right now.
[01:07:49.220 --> 01:07:50.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you for your patience.
[01:07:51.300 --> 01:07:51.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:07:52.020 --> 01:07:53.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's nowhere to go.
[01:07:53.320 --> 01:07:53.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:07:54.060 --> 01:07:55.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm in a tube, underground.
[01:07:56.680 --> 01:07:57.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm stuck here.
[01:07:57.940 --> 01:08:01.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I'm not patient when I'm there either, so I don't know what they're thanking me for.
[01:08:02.700 --> 01:08:04.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're hoping for my patience.
[01:08:04.320 --> 01:08:05.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're not thanking me for my patience.
[01:08:06.960 --> 01:08:08.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, Rebel, Rebel, you're back.
[01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:10.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, of course.
[01:08:12.440 --> 01:08:14.280]  [SPEAKER_17]: We could always accept a...
[01:08:14.280 --> 01:08:15.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: Go ahead, Gila.
[01:08:16.500 --> 01:08:19.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I was going to say, we have another question from the chat.
[01:08:19.260 --> 01:08:20.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know if it's Rebel specific.
[01:08:20.520 --> 01:08:22.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let me see if we can get a clarification on that.
[01:08:23.880 --> 01:08:28.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, so now we have to ask questions of the people asking questions before we can ask a question of Rebel.
[01:08:28.560 --> 01:08:29.560]  [SPEAKER_17]: This was going to be new.
[01:08:29.720 --> 01:08:30.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: It was always going to be new.
[01:08:30.720 --> 01:08:32.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, it's just, you know, airtime is valuable on YouTube.
[01:08:33.120 --> 01:08:33.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: It takes adjusting.
[01:08:33.900 --> 01:08:34.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're learning here.
[01:08:35.420 --> 01:08:36.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're learning live.
[01:08:36.560 --> 01:08:36.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're learning live.
[01:08:43.230 --> 01:08:45.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let Gary answer the question, and then I'll ask.
[01:08:45.770 --> 01:08:46.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: Go ahead, Kyle.
[01:08:46.500 --> 01:08:56.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: If we had, you know, some numbers to check out of interest, you could easily, you know, send us a list that you were curious about, and we could arrange to...
[01:08:56.000 --> 01:09:01.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, you know, Rebel, if you're on the chat, you can post actual phone numbers on the chat, and nobody's going to stop you from doing that.
[01:09:02.140 --> 01:09:04.230]  [SPEAKER_17]: And people might actually be able to look them up.
[01:09:04.230 --> 01:09:06.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Leave us alone, and we'll just go do our radio thing.
[01:09:07.520 --> 01:09:08.620]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's even better, yeah.
[01:09:10.260 --> 01:09:24.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Speaking of radio, how did, like, WBA, like, when WBAI was on, like, Wall Street and 8th Avenue, how did they get from, like, broadcast from, like, the studio on 8th Avenue or Wall Street to the Empire State Building, wherever the transmitter is?
[01:09:24.260 --> 01:09:25.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I know this one.
[01:09:25.600 --> 01:09:32.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, they use phone lines, and, you know, some radio stations use microwave links, but we use phone lines.
[01:09:33.100 --> 01:09:45.160]  [SPEAKER_17]: For a while, I think we used broadband, even, but it was part of that temporary site transition from Empire State to the other transmitter, but for the most part, it's a dedicated circuit.
[01:09:46.560 --> 01:09:46.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[01:09:47.220 --> 01:09:49.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: And now, how did the microwave, why would they use microwave?
[01:09:50.080 --> 01:09:52.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Do people, like, in the country use microwaves?
[01:09:52.040 --> 01:09:57.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Like, you don't, you don't have to pay for a phone line if you use microwave, and you have a microwave dish, and you have line of sight.
[01:09:58.500 --> 01:09:59.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, there's that.
[01:09:59.540 --> 01:09:59.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, really?
[01:10:00.220 --> 01:10:01.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, you just pay for the energy.
[01:10:03.120 --> 01:10:04.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Would have a microwave?
[01:10:04.400 --> 01:10:06.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: How far does microwave reach, like, 10 miles?
[01:10:06.080 --> 01:10:07.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Again, line of sight.
[01:10:07.300 --> 01:10:21.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, you might recall, years ago, when microwave links were more popular with phone calls, on highways, you would see antennas, maybe every 10 miles, with all kinds of dishes up on top, and they were, they were connecting to each other.
[01:10:22.040 --> 01:10:32.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, if you ever recall the giant horn, the big, huge antennas, they're, they're every so, so many miles, especially in the Midwest, in very flat areas.
[01:10:33.770 --> 01:10:38.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: You can see the relics, like, sort of the old equipment that's, that's still in place.
[01:10:38.270 --> 01:10:51.620]  [SPEAKER_17]: But that stuff would carry a huge, a huge band of, of calls and other information, and it really is limited by just the, uh, the conditions and the, the aim and energy used.
[01:10:51.730 --> 01:10:55.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Do you remember the, the company MCI, Microwave Communications, Inc.?
[01:10:55.160 --> 01:10:55.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's what that stood for.
[01:10:56.400 --> 01:11:06.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: But that is, you know, in 9th and 10th Avenue in Manhattan, like 50th Street or 56th Street or something, and there's an AT&T building with a, with a, on the roof, it's like microwaves.
[01:11:06.620 --> 01:11:08.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, they were heavily into that kind of stuff.
[01:11:09.340 --> 01:11:10.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: So that makes perfect sense.
[01:11:11.480 --> 01:11:12.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that was their jam.
[01:11:13.500 --> 01:11:13.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry?
[01:11:14.760 --> 01:11:16.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Does that not work anymore, or do they just have that there?
[01:11:16.940 --> 01:11:18.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: You'd have to go up to the roof and then find out.
[01:11:19.040 --> 01:11:21.360]  [SPEAKER_17]: They're, they're retired in place.
[01:11:21.820 --> 01:11:28.780]  [SPEAKER_17]: They're either, um, seldom used, not used, um, or soon to not be used.
[01:11:28.780 --> 01:11:45.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't know, but most, most of the very, very large ones, smaller microwave is used, uh, and there are numerous types of antenna, but, uh, it's, it's an aging technology because there's so many other, um, competitive, uh, medium now.
[01:11:45.200 --> 01:11:46.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Kayla, how is that?
[01:11:46.120 --> 01:11:47.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: How is that question progressing?
[01:11:47.680 --> 01:11:48.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is it still...
[01:11:48.480 --> 01:11:54.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, I asked the asker if it was for Rebel or for everybody, have not gotten an answer.
[01:11:54.320 --> 01:11:58.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I will push it to the show, but, um, Rebel, pick one, dude.
[01:11:58.360 --> 01:12:00.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're either on the phone with us or in the chat.
[01:12:01.140 --> 01:12:01.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, what?
[01:12:01.600 --> 01:12:02.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: He's on the chat.
[01:12:02.360 --> 01:12:03.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: See, I'm not looking at the chat, so...
[01:12:03.640 --> 01:12:04.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: We could be taking other calls.
[01:12:04.860 --> 01:12:09.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is, this is why I sound so focused because I've got my eyes closed and I don't even see anybody.
[01:12:09.300 --> 01:12:10.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: I chose not to be in the chat today.
[01:12:10.900 --> 01:12:16.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, so, yeah, you shouldn't be on the chat and on the phone at the same time with us, Rebel.
[01:12:16.400 --> 01:12:17.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not on the chat.
[01:12:17.300 --> 01:12:18.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm now asking you a question.
[01:12:19.180 --> 01:12:20.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Remember, you know the building on...
[01:12:20.620 --> 01:12:22.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wait, I'm supposed to ask you a question, damn it.
[01:12:22.760 --> 01:12:23.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let us do our job.
[01:12:25.200 --> 01:12:26.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, Gila, it's your, it's your turn.
[01:12:27.160 --> 01:12:27.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, okay.
[01:12:27.680 --> 01:12:33.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, the question we have been asked is, what do we think about censorship in Ireland?
[01:12:33.860 --> 01:12:35.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wait, that's a question for Rebel?
[01:12:36.160 --> 01:12:38.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know if it's a Rebel-specific question.
[01:12:38.400 --> 01:12:38.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know what?
[01:12:38.840 --> 01:12:39.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: That is a question for Rebel.
[01:12:39.940 --> 01:12:40.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead, Rebel.
[01:12:40.420 --> 01:12:40.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Take it.
[01:12:41.360 --> 01:12:42.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: I have censorship in Ireland?
[01:12:43.660 --> 01:12:44.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mm-hmm.
[01:12:45.080 --> 01:12:46.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: I've never been to Ireland.
[01:12:46.380 --> 01:12:46.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, not yet.
[01:12:46.800 --> 01:12:47.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to go next year.
[01:12:48.140 --> 01:12:51.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've never been to Mars, but I have feelings about censorship on Mars.
[01:12:52.900 --> 01:12:55.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, um, you know the two big antennas on top of that...
[01:12:55.860 --> 01:12:58.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, you're just going to ignore the question, is that it?
[01:12:58.860 --> 01:13:00.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because I don't know the answer.
[01:13:00.260 --> 01:13:02.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: You don't know how you feel about censorship in Ireland.
[01:13:04.140 --> 01:13:04.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Interesting.
[01:13:04.700 --> 01:13:05.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because I've never been to Ireland.
[01:13:05.920 --> 01:13:10.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, you have to be someplace to know how you feel about injustice in that place.
[01:13:11.360 --> 01:13:12.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wow, that's convenient.
[01:13:13.020 --> 01:13:15.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Many dictators would welcome that kind of attitude.
[01:13:18.960 --> 01:13:19.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you.
[01:13:19.700 --> 01:13:21.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you, Gila, for that question.
[01:13:21.560 --> 01:13:23.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you, whoever asked the question.
[01:13:25.380 --> 01:13:28.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Does anybody else have any opinions on that question?
[01:13:28.360 --> 01:13:30.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think Rebel wants to get out what he's saying now.
[01:13:30.680 --> 01:13:35.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: And then once we release him, we will address the question ourselves.
[01:13:35.400 --> 01:13:36.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: But go ahead, Rebel.
[01:13:36.620 --> 01:13:39.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Talk about the dishes on the roof, whatever it is that you're talking about.
[01:13:41.080 --> 01:13:42.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: The building that's...
[01:13:42.460 --> 01:13:49.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's the AT&T building or the Western Union building on like 6th Avenue and like Canal Street.
[01:13:49.320 --> 01:13:52.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: The big two with two antennas on top of the floor.
[01:13:52.260 --> 01:13:52.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: What is that?
[01:13:54.460 --> 01:13:55.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I'm going to get it wrong.
[01:13:55.860 --> 01:13:59.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think that's an old AT&T building or it might be an old New York Telephone building.
[01:13:59.560 --> 01:14:01.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's definitely a phone company building.
[01:14:01.320 --> 01:14:04.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, I'm pretty sure it was on a cover of 22nd Congress at one point.
[01:14:05.700 --> 01:14:09.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: The building to look at, though, is the Thomas Street?
[01:14:09.200 --> 01:14:10.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: 33 Thomas.
[01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:13.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, that building that was in Mr. Robot and everything.
[01:14:13.760 --> 01:14:15.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's the one without any windows.
[01:14:15.960 --> 01:14:17.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's from another planet.
[01:14:17.560 --> 01:14:24.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's a style of architecture that's used very widely in a lot of the telephone company plants and COs.
[01:14:25.660 --> 01:14:26.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: Is that Brutalist?
[01:14:26.800 --> 01:14:28.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: It is the Brutalist style, yeah.
[01:14:28.660 --> 01:14:30.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: I love the name Brutalist.
[01:14:30.140 --> 01:14:38.940]  [SPEAKER_17]: But that is the one type of utility, type of construction in every part of this country that exemplifies in a lot of ways that style.
[01:14:39.240 --> 01:14:43.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: And one of the only... well, there's other, you know, universities, campus, and places that borrow that.
[01:14:44.020 --> 01:14:50.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: But it's sort of fascinating that that was... and you get strange buildings like that.
[01:14:50.040 --> 01:14:54.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, they look so futuristic, yet they've, you know, been there for some time.
[01:14:54.400 --> 01:14:55.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you have the actual address?
[01:14:56.560 --> 01:14:58.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: I think it's 33 Thomas.
[01:14:59.020 --> 01:15:00.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, you're giving a different address, Rebel, really.
[01:15:01.080 --> 01:15:01.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: What are we talking about?
[01:15:02.120 --> 01:15:03.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know what we're talking about.
[01:15:04.440 --> 01:15:12.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Maybe somebody can plug that into Google Maps or something and make sure that we have the right building so we don't send somebody to someone's grandmother's home or something.
[01:15:16.090 --> 01:15:16.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: Go ahead, Rebel.
[01:15:17.210 --> 01:15:17.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Floor's yours.
[01:15:17.950 --> 01:15:21.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: The building without the windows, that's on Thompson Street.
[01:15:21.370 --> 01:15:22.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is it Thompson Street?
[01:15:22.550 --> 01:15:23.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I was saying at first.
[01:15:23.910 --> 01:15:24.530]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay, I'm sorry.
[01:15:24.850 --> 01:15:25.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:15:25.650 --> 01:15:26.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: And Church Street.
[01:15:27.650 --> 01:15:28.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: That I don't know.
[01:15:28.530 --> 01:15:29.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know anything about that one.
[01:15:29.810 --> 01:15:32.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was wondering about the building on 6th Avenue.
[01:15:33.330 --> 01:15:36.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's 3rd, it's like 32 6th Avenue or something.
[01:15:37.050 --> 01:15:41.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: It was like the Western Union building or something or AT&T Long Lines or something like that.
[01:15:41.970 --> 01:15:42.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: But it has two...
[01:15:43.390 --> 01:15:45.970]  [SPEAKER_17]: They occupied the former Western Union building.
[01:15:46.130 --> 01:15:50.010]  [SPEAKER_17]: That sounds right, but I don't know the exact details off the top of my head.
[01:15:51.150 --> 01:15:53.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, it has two big antennas on the roof of the building.
[01:15:53.590 --> 01:15:55.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was just wondering what those were.
[01:15:55.150 --> 01:15:59.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're the strange-looking antennas that, you know...
[01:15:59.970 --> 01:16:03.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're interested in, like, how radio works and antennas and things like that.
[01:16:03.310 --> 01:16:04.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, they're out of CB radio.
[01:16:04.810 --> 01:16:06.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Too bad Bernie S isn't around anymore.
[01:16:09.680 --> 01:16:14.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: So, I know there's a lot of antennas on top of the building you're talking about, but I don't have a picture.
[01:16:17.560 --> 01:16:20.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, well, I think Rebel has run out of things to say.
[01:16:21.520 --> 01:16:22.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I think so.
[01:16:22.960 --> 01:16:23.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's the thing.
[01:16:24.760 --> 01:16:26.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: If not, I'll just type it on the chat.
[01:16:29.820 --> 01:16:30.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's actually Rebel.
[01:16:30.980 --> 01:16:31.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not Thompson Street.
[01:16:31.880 --> 01:16:32.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's Thomas Street.
[01:16:32.660 --> 01:16:33.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just looked it up.
[01:16:33.700 --> 01:16:38.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: We had it right, and then you made us have it wrong, and now it's 33 Thomas Street.
[01:16:38.960 --> 01:16:40.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Kyle had it exactly right.
[01:16:41.100 --> 01:16:41.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[01:16:42.280 --> 01:16:43.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let this be an example.
[01:16:47.240 --> 01:16:52.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: You should be sent to 33 Thomas Street and serve time there, because it looks like a prison.
[01:16:53.340 --> 01:16:54.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, that's...
[01:16:54.140 --> 01:16:54.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, wait a minute.
[01:16:55.000 --> 01:16:56.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: It does look like a prison.
[01:16:56.920 --> 01:16:58.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Blue Street, 10th Street.
[01:16:59.080 --> 01:17:01.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, while Rebel figures out the streets...
[01:17:01.960 --> 01:17:03.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it's Thompson Street.
[01:17:03.220 --> 01:17:03.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: The Thompson...
[01:17:03.880 --> 01:17:06.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm talking about the building with the two antennas.
[01:17:06.500 --> 01:17:07.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not talking about that building.
[01:17:07.960 --> 01:17:08.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm talking about something...
[01:17:08.780 --> 01:17:10.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're only talking about what you're talking about.
[01:17:10.540 --> 01:17:11.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm talking about something different.
[01:17:12.120 --> 01:17:14.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: We already talked about the antennas, too.
[01:17:14.360 --> 01:17:14.560]  [SPEAKER_17]: There's one on Church Street.
[01:17:14.760 --> 01:17:15.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, Church Street.
[01:17:15.860 --> 01:17:16.060]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay.
[01:17:16.160 --> 01:17:23.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know how Church Street can be mixed up with Thomas Street or turned into Thompson Street, but 33 Thomas Street is the coolest looking building.
[01:17:24.880 --> 01:17:25.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[01:17:25.560 --> 01:17:25.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[01:17:26.120 --> 01:17:27.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Final thought, Rebel, and then we're going to move on.
[01:17:28.580 --> 01:17:29.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's see.
[01:17:32.820 --> 01:17:33.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: What else?
[01:17:34.880 --> 01:17:35.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: This could take a while.
[01:17:41.200 --> 01:17:43.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Your laughter is really making me nervous.
[01:17:46.760 --> 01:17:47.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: What else?
[01:17:47.780 --> 01:18:02.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: When I call a lot of the old 800 numbers from off the hook, from like the 90s, it goes to the same thing, like the same recording, the same, like, thank you for calling, just for calling today, you know, that kind of thing.
[01:18:02.780 --> 01:18:03.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[01:18:03.360 --> 01:18:05.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's called an error message, and there are a lot of them.
[01:18:05.740 --> 01:18:06.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's not an error message.
[01:18:06.860 --> 01:18:13.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's one of those, just for calling today, you can receive, you know, a gift card or whatever, or something like that.
[01:18:13.680 --> 01:18:16.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's one of those, you know, like, hold on, let me...
[01:18:16.440 --> 01:18:17.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, no.
[01:18:17.380 --> 01:18:17.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: What have I done?
[01:18:19.020 --> 01:18:25.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're saying that every single phone number that we've given out in the past now goes to the same company that's offering coupons?
[01:18:27.100 --> 01:18:27.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think so.
[01:18:27.920 --> 01:18:28.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hold on, let me try.
[01:18:29.220 --> 01:18:30.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not a world I want to be part of.
[01:18:32.220 --> 01:18:33.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, I'm sorry, folks.
[01:18:34.580 --> 01:18:35.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: A little bit more of this...
[01:18:35.280 --> 01:18:37.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: And please listen carefully as our menu options may have changed.
[01:18:38.060 --> 01:18:39.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Calls are recorded for quality assurance.
[01:18:40.640 --> 01:18:41.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're very...
[01:18:41.600 --> 01:18:42.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: See, that's what...
[01:18:42.480 --> 01:18:43.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: I was listening to that.
[01:18:44.400 --> 01:18:45.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you want to hear it?
[01:18:45.500 --> 01:18:45.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well...
[01:18:45.760 --> 01:18:46.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: You want to hear it again?
[01:18:48.020 --> 01:19:04.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Every number, like, from, like, whether you called it in, like, 91 or 93 or 98, you know, like, different, you know, like, 1-800-MAY-I-N-I-S, or 1-800, the old AT and the old number that AT&T used to have, you know, telephone used to have, it all goes to there.
[01:19:05.040 --> 01:19:06.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Look, let it play through.
[01:19:06.500 --> 01:19:07.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let it play through, okay?
[01:19:07.780 --> 01:19:09.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, uh, I just want to hear what it says.
[01:19:10.400 --> 01:19:16.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, at least they say their menu may have changed, as opposed to the ones that lie and say their menus have changed.
[01:19:16.880 --> 01:19:18.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: And please listen carefully as our menu options may have changed.
[01:19:18.900 --> 01:19:19.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because you know they haven't.
[01:19:19.960 --> 01:19:21.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Calls are recorded for quality assurance.
[01:19:21.840 --> 01:19:22.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Don't hit any buttons.
[01:19:22.440 --> 01:19:25.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're very excited to tell you about a special promotion for select callers.
[01:19:25.900 --> 01:19:27.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: This will only take a moment.
[01:19:27.340 --> 01:19:31.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: By answering just a few questions, we will find out if this offer is right for you.
[01:19:31.560 --> 01:19:31.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right, all right.
[01:19:34.080 --> 01:19:34.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh.
[01:19:34.660 --> 01:19:36.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: Thank you for calling the Medical Alert Center.
[01:19:36.340 --> 01:19:37.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is Jessica on a recorded line.
[01:19:38.140 --> 01:19:38.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: Can you hear me okay?
[01:19:40.020 --> 01:19:40.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Who is this?
[01:19:40.820 --> 01:19:41.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're not in the room.
[01:19:42.780 --> 01:19:43.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Who is this?
[01:19:44.420 --> 01:19:44.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: Great.
[01:19:44.980 --> 01:19:45.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm so confused.
[01:19:45.760 --> 01:19:50.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you're on a promotion today, you actually have the opportunity to receive a free medical alert device.
[01:19:50.120 --> 01:19:50.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: Jessica.
[01:19:50.800 --> 01:19:51.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: So congratulations.
[01:19:51.860 --> 01:19:52.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, you know, it's that...
[01:19:52.880 --> 01:19:54.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Jessica, damn it, will you listen to me?
[01:19:54.500 --> 01:19:55.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've fallen.
[01:19:55.520 --> 01:19:56.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: In case of an emergency or, um, even a fall.
[01:19:56.940 --> 01:19:58.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't think Jessica can hear you.
[01:19:58.460 --> 01:19:59.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: Why can't Jessica hear me?
[01:20:00.480 --> 01:20:01.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Jessica, shut up.
[01:20:01.680 --> 01:20:02.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Let us talk.
[01:20:02.660 --> 01:20:03.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: For God's sake.
[01:20:03.560 --> 01:20:05.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, uh, oftentimes it's really...
[01:20:05.020 --> 01:20:07.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is really important that I get through to you.
[01:20:07.580 --> 01:20:12.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, um, to make it really simple for you, we pay for the entire unit itself and then ship it right to your house for...
[01:20:12.240 --> 01:20:13.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: I can turn them off.
[01:20:13.140 --> 01:20:13.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just realized that.
[01:20:16.000 --> 01:20:20.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, uh, Rebel, we're giving you one chance to say goodbye, and if you don't say goodbye, we're going to say goodbye.
[01:20:21.800 --> 01:20:22.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Rebel?
[01:20:22.620 --> 01:20:22.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[01:20:23.200 --> 01:20:23.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[01:20:23.660 --> 01:20:24.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: I totally understand.
[01:20:25.400 --> 01:20:26.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: Get Jessica out of here.
[01:20:27.100 --> 01:20:27.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: Even the healthiest people...
[01:20:27.980 --> 01:20:29.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: She's proven really annoying.
[01:20:29.460 --> 01:20:31.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: ...so it's really important to have a way to call for help in case of an...
[01:20:31.600 --> 01:20:33.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, uh, Rebel, that was entertaining.
[01:20:33.820 --> 01:20:34.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you for that.
[01:20:34.500 --> 01:20:36.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, we will, um, talk to you next week, maybe.
[01:20:37.760 --> 01:20:38.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, of course.
[01:20:38.620 --> 01:20:39.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, take care.
[01:20:40.180 --> 01:20:40.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, bye.
[01:20:42.280 --> 01:20:45.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Of course, we're not on next week, but, uh, he's welcome to call in.
[01:20:46.040 --> 01:20:48.720]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, he'll probably stay in the chat, too, so...
[01:20:48.720 --> 01:20:56.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Our phone number, uh, despite the, uh, temptation to change it, remains 802-321-4225, if anyone else out there would like to call us.
[01:20:57.180 --> 01:20:59.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, now, uh, censorship in Ireland.
[01:20:59.620 --> 01:21:00.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: Censorship in Ireland.
[01:21:00.860 --> 01:21:01.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't like it.
[01:21:02.020 --> 01:21:03.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not for it.
[01:21:03.220 --> 01:21:03.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: No.
[01:21:03.960 --> 01:21:04.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Dead set against it.
[01:21:05.040 --> 01:21:07.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, uh, Alex, you're strangely quiet on the subject.
[01:21:08.380 --> 01:21:09.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I think it's terrible.
[01:21:10.140 --> 01:21:26.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I've, I've read a tiny bit about this, and it, uh, it seems a lot, uh, like thought crime, like something that would, would, would be straight out of 1984 or, you know, any kind of dystopian type of novel, because it, it's really strange.
[01:21:26.860 --> 01:21:40.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it, it's about, it's like taking this notion of trying to stop people from being offended by anything to some, uh, extreme side, uh, or extreme example of it.
[01:21:40.340 --> 01:22:03.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's really, uh, really, really bizarre, because, um, it allows essentially, from, from what I can tell, somebody to be convicted of, like inciting hate or spreading hate simply by possessing, something like, uh, a note or a text message or some kind of writing on a phone or a device,
[01:22:03.840 --> 01:22:06.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: even if you don't send that to anybody else.
[01:22:07.460 --> 01:22:23.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: So the simple possession of some kind of writing that is not even transmitted to another person can actually be, uh, considered to be, uh, you can be in possession, quote unquote, possession of some kind of hate speech.
[01:22:23.120 --> 01:22:26.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, what if, what if we simply write up some, some, something offensive?
[01:22:26.860 --> 01:22:30.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: And distribute it to everybody in Ireland, then everybody has it.
[01:22:30.820 --> 01:22:34.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the whole country has to, has to face the charges then.
[01:22:35.040 --> 01:22:36.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's an interesting issue, right?
[01:22:36.980 --> 01:22:45.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if you're in possession of it by virtue of having received it, it's that, um, you know, that you, that would have to be some kind of exception, right?
[01:22:45.940 --> 01:22:46.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: That would be terrible.
[01:22:46.700 --> 01:22:57.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, this whole idea of just simply putting something down in writing as an idea or a thought, even though, you know, you might be an abhorrent thought or it might be part of a novel or something like that.
[01:22:57.980 --> 01:23:16.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: But the idea to criminalize putting something down, you know, as a note on your phone is totally insane, uh, and, and contrary to the most basic fundamental principles of, of things like freedom of speech and association expression, it's, uh, it's pretty,
[01:23:16.460 --> 01:23:17.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: it's really, really horrible.
[01:23:17.380 --> 01:23:29.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: And as, as I understand it, this has passed with, with a, really without almost any meaningful opposition, the Irish equivalent of the house.
[01:23:29.660 --> 01:23:33.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it has to go into the Senate and this law is expected to pass.
[01:23:34.040 --> 01:23:48.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, and I, and I think it's, it's really worse than that too, because there are, there are things like, you know, turning the presumption of innocence on its head and people who are in possession, I think of, even of this unpublished speech, are presumed to,
[01:23:48.440 --> 01:23:50.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: to essentially be guilty.
[01:23:51.060 --> 01:23:55.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you have to rebut the presumption and essentially prove your innocence.
[01:23:56.040 --> 01:24:08.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I, I really don't understand how something that is a, a, not in political, well, in, in the political philosophy sense, a liberal democracy can even countenance a law like this.
[01:24:09.080 --> 01:24:09.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's nuts.
[01:24:09.660 --> 01:24:09.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[01:24:09.920 --> 01:24:11.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: When, when did Ireland become part of the deep South?
[01:24:12.620 --> 01:24:14.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: I, I, I, this is hitting me by surprise.
[01:24:14.940 --> 01:24:17.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: This wouldn't, this wouldn't fly anywhere.
[01:24:17.040 --> 01:24:21.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think even in the deep South, like, I, I think people would see this for what it is.
[01:24:22.040 --> 01:24:29.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: So have you been paying attention to the deep South lately, Alex, a lot of things that shouldn't fly are flying.
[01:24:30.180 --> 01:24:43.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that, I think that even the deep South would recognize this as, as abhorrent and, and contrary to, you know, they, they believe in the, you know, in the bill of rights and the constitution and, you know, when it suits them.
[01:24:43.660 --> 01:24:51.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: And if they want to keep flying their Confederate flags, this would, this, this law would really become a big obstacle.
[01:24:52.120 --> 01:24:52.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: So.
[01:24:52.800 --> 01:24:55.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, we could discuss this for quite some time, but we have another phone call.
[01:24:55.460 --> 01:24:55.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[01:24:55.860 --> 01:24:56.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:24:57.060 --> 01:24:57.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead.
[01:24:58.360 --> 01:24:59.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Good evening, gang.
[01:24:59.320 --> 01:25:00.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hi, this is Tim in Connecticut.
[01:25:00.740 --> 01:25:01.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hey, Tim, how are you doing?
[01:25:02.380 --> 01:25:03.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, not too bad.
[01:25:03.180 --> 01:25:03.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Not too bad.
[01:25:04.140 --> 01:25:05.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Nice to see the chat up and running.
[01:25:06.120 --> 01:25:06.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[01:25:06.640 --> 01:25:10.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: I haven't looked at it myself, but, um, I haven't heard any horror stories yet, so maybe it's okay.
[01:25:11.140 --> 01:25:11.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, no, no, no.
[01:25:11.720 --> 01:25:16.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think just like the, you know, just like the hope conferences and stuff will be respectable.
[01:25:16.620 --> 01:25:19.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, won't tear things up on the first day, at least.
[01:25:20.620 --> 01:25:24.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, uh, you know, Gila is the one, uh, monitoring it right now.
[01:25:24.400 --> 01:25:26.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: So we'll see, uh, if, if she loses her mind.
[01:25:28.980 --> 01:25:30.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think she will.
[01:25:30.240 --> 01:25:37.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, as far as, you know, censorship, and, uh, I think it's basically about control and power.
[01:25:38.040 --> 01:25:44.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Either the people in power want to control the populace, or they're, they want to promote their beliefs.
[01:25:44.940 --> 01:25:54.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: But it really, in my humble opinion, it comes down to me forcing my beliefs onto other people.
[01:25:54.960 --> 01:25:58.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's many names for it, and it's been done all throughout history.
[01:25:58.260 --> 01:26:04.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think it should continue, but it's very, very hard to stop when you have an overwhelming majority.
[01:26:09.540 --> 01:26:10.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[01:26:11.180 --> 01:26:13.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I can see everybody is fascinated by this.
[01:26:14.260 --> 01:26:15.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Nobody has anything to say?
[01:26:17.420 --> 01:26:17.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: No?
[01:26:20.300 --> 01:26:24.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, Gila is the person handling all the, all the chatting.
[01:26:24.080 --> 01:26:24.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: I could be wrong.
[01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:26.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I'm, I'm watching the chat.
[01:26:28.700 --> 01:26:30.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: It sounds like we're all watching the chat.
[01:26:30.780 --> 01:26:31.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Do you have something to say?
[01:26:32.380 --> 01:26:34.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've been talking more than I should.
[01:26:36.840 --> 01:26:47.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I, I put also in the chat, you know, there's, there's a lot of things about, uh, the Florida governor against Disney, against schools.
[01:26:50.380 --> 01:27:13.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, you know, and it's one of those things that you don't want to go off on, on a lot of tangents, but it looks like a lot of people lately seem to be pushing all kinds of control over everything from how you feel to how you want to be to what you do with your personal life.
[01:27:17.140 --> 01:27:31.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I mean, I, you know, uh, uh, one, one of the stories that I've been, uh, looking at in horror over the last couple of days is the story of a teacher in, in, in Florida who, uh, who, uh, showed a film that happened to have a gay character in a Disney film.
[01:27:31.720 --> 01:27:47.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: And she's, uh, she is facing all kinds of hell now from the state of Florida for that, for showing a film and violating a policy, which apparently the policy is not to even acknowledge gay people as existing in any way.
[01:27:48.140 --> 01:27:49.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: That is the crime.
[01:27:49.500 --> 01:27:56.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is, you know, we warn people that, uh, they, they started with one to, to, uh, first to third grade.
[01:27:57.040 --> 01:28:00.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, and, and this is, I think a fifth grade class, so they've expanded already.
[01:28:00.680 --> 01:28:05.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not just about, uh, uh, quote unquote, woke, uh, a speech in books.
[01:28:05.760 --> 01:28:07.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's just about existence.
[01:28:07.240 --> 01:28:09.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now it is spreading like a cancer.
[01:28:09.880 --> 01:28:13.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: So I don't think this is happening in Ireland, but maybe I'm wrong.
[01:28:14.100 --> 01:28:22.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, this, this is an evil that is happening right here in our backyard and we better do something about it or it's going to be out of control before we know it.
[01:28:23.480 --> 01:28:24.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: I agree.
[01:28:24.640 --> 01:28:35.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, this teacher was, uh, actually, she had, uh, had tests for, her class and, uh, some kids couldn't, couldn't finish in time.
[01:28:35.220 --> 01:28:36.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: So they had to go to another room.
[01:28:36.780 --> 01:28:39.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Everybody who finished came over to her room.
[01:28:39.480 --> 01:28:43.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: So what she was doing was showing this Disney film as a, as a break.
[01:28:44.140 --> 01:28:47.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: They'd already completed their assignment and it was a PG film.
[01:28:47.860 --> 01:28:59.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: There were already, um, parent approval flips for the film, but it had a couple of characters that kissed and now she's in trouble.
[01:29:00.340 --> 01:29:00.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[01:29:02.000 --> 01:29:03.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's the country we're living in right now.
[01:29:03.660 --> 01:29:04.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's, it's, it's, it's horrible.
[01:29:05.280 --> 01:29:05.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, Gila, go ahead.
[01:29:05.940 --> 01:29:06.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:29:06.360 --> 01:29:09.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is actually me, by the way, this is not a YouTube thing.
[01:29:09.900 --> 01:29:17.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, when I was in middle school in the great Midwest, we had, um, we're supposed to show a movie.
[01:29:18.040 --> 01:29:19.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Permission slips went home.
[01:29:19.080 --> 01:29:22.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: We were going to watch dances with wolves because we'd been doing a whole unit on Native Americans.
[01:29:23.020 --> 01:29:25.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: And one kid's parents said, no.
[01:29:25.660 --> 01:29:28.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, so we had to watch, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, no.
[01:29:29.060 --> 01:29:29.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Why?
[01:29:29.700 --> 01:29:30.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: What is it?
[01:29:30.600 --> 01:29:34.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: What is it about dances with wolves that anybody would find offensive?
[01:29:34.560 --> 01:29:37.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Their child was only allowed to watch G rated films.
[01:29:37.740 --> 01:29:39.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, it was the rating that upset them.
[01:29:40.180 --> 01:29:40.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[01:29:41.280 --> 01:29:41.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[01:29:42.320 --> 01:29:44.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Their, their child, we were in eighth grade.
[01:29:45.020 --> 01:29:47.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: I want to say, and their child was only allowed to watch G rated films.
[01:29:48.140 --> 01:29:51.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: So the screening of dances with wolves was canceled.
[01:29:51.860 --> 01:29:56.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: And again, this had been like everything we'd been studying was building up to watching this particular movie.
[01:29:57.080 --> 01:29:57.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: This was the point.
[01:29:57.720 --> 01:30:01.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: So we had to watch beauty and the beast as the capstone of our educational experience.
[01:30:02.620 --> 01:30:06.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I shudder to think what would be happening now.
[01:30:06.840 --> 01:30:12.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Couldn't you just send the kid on errand or something while you showed the film to the rest of the kids, you know, or.
[01:30:15.440 --> 01:30:18.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: But then the kid gets complex, being excluded.
[01:30:19.440 --> 01:30:24.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: And this is happening, this is happening everywhere in the Midwest, in the, in the deep South.
[01:30:25.820 --> 01:30:30.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: And guaranteed, there are people plotting in New York to do the same thing.
[01:30:30.800 --> 01:30:31.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: So.
[01:30:31.280 --> 01:30:38.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think what bothers me is Corporal Max Klinger on MASH, dressed up as a woman.
[01:30:38.020 --> 01:30:38.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[01:30:39.060 --> 01:30:41.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's plenty of Three Stooges cross-dressing.
[01:30:41.960 --> 01:30:44.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's plenty of cartoons cross-dressing.
[01:30:44.300 --> 01:30:48.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's plenty of, just in general, in production, shows that were cross-dressing.
[01:30:48.960 --> 01:30:50.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it seemed okay then.
[01:30:51.780 --> 01:30:53.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now it's horrifying.
[01:30:53.360 --> 01:30:58.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you know, that's what Let3, the Croatian band we just played, did in their video.
[01:31:00.100 --> 01:31:11.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: They put on dresses in military outfits as dictators, just to mess with everybody and to show support for cross-dressing, the trans community, everything.
[01:31:11.680 --> 01:31:14.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I think in every aspect, we have to do things like this.
[01:31:14.800 --> 01:31:22.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have to speak up and never just accept it as, well, that's the way things are now, because it's just not acceptable.
[01:31:22.540 --> 01:31:24.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, you know, we're going to have to be loud.
[01:31:25.060 --> 01:31:25.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're going to have to be rude.
[01:31:25.800 --> 01:31:29.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're going to have to, you know, fight fire with fire, but you never accept it.
[01:31:29.320 --> 01:31:30.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: How do you get people to listen?
[01:31:31.740 --> 01:31:38.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, people will listen if you speak, if you say something, if you don't censor yourself.
[01:31:38.940 --> 01:31:45.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: So that's the worst kind of censorship, the kind where you impose it upon yourself because you assume what's going to happen if you do open your mouth.
[01:31:46.080 --> 01:31:47.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: But you never know.
[01:31:47.200 --> 01:31:49.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: You never know who is going to be moved by what you say.
[01:31:52.630 --> 01:31:53.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[01:31:53.330 --> 01:32:03.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't like the path that we are going towards, but I'm not about to get in the car and drive down to Florida to do something about it.
[01:32:03.590 --> 01:32:03.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[01:32:03.930 --> 01:32:14.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I don't feel safe in these states where I basically encourage everybody to, you know, have as little training as possible and carry as, you know, as deadly a weapon as possible.
[01:32:14.390 --> 01:32:15.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're just out of their damn minds.
[01:32:15.690 --> 01:32:17.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know what's going on.
[01:32:17.010 --> 01:32:19.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they got to sort this out one way or another.
[01:32:20.270 --> 01:32:25.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: But when it comes to freedom of speech, that is something that I'm not going to shut up about.
[01:32:26.810 --> 01:32:27.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: I agree.
[01:32:31.190 --> 01:32:38.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: But you would think that the people who are at the center of whatever the problem is would see that as well.
[01:32:43.910 --> 01:32:47.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: That it's a problem, that we don't want to go down this path.
[01:32:48.770 --> 01:32:53.350]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, no, I don't want to go down the path with these people either.
[01:32:53.670 --> 01:33:01.530]  [SPEAKER_17]: Their hypocrisy and so forth is beyond absurd.
[01:33:01.530 --> 01:33:27.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I think just pointing it out and being honest about the communities that are being represented and now misrepresented and just reminding the public that, like, this whole, like, not acknowledging certain communities exist is something that has been tried.
[01:33:27.050 --> 01:33:39.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: It is, it has been done over the years, over the ages of denying this or not accommodating people who are underrepresented or vulnerable communities.
[01:33:39.050 --> 01:33:41.150]  [SPEAKER_17]: And it doesn't go well.
[01:33:41.150 --> 01:33:57.030]  [SPEAKER_17]: It ends up, it ends up with tearing families apart, people not finding, finding community and, and hurting themselves or, or acting out and hurting others because they don't understand.
[01:33:58.070 --> 01:34:03.010]  [SPEAKER_17]: Why they feel they do, or way they do, or they don't feel like they have a place in society.
[01:34:03.230 --> 01:34:12.970]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, these are very real consequences of this kind of reactionary sort of backlash, throw the gays under the bus policy.
[01:34:13.190 --> 01:34:27.530]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, it was, I think, well ahead of now, like, win or lose, they were going to go this direction as soon as they, um, secured a win, a perceived win with, um, Roe v.
[01:34:27.670 --> 01:34:41.170]  [SPEAKER_17]: Wade, uh, and the Supreme Court, that this, this, um, the bathroom issue, as it were, and, um, and, and on from there was going to be a chief, yeah, that too.
[01:34:41.350 --> 01:34:46.630]  [SPEAKER_17]: But that was going to be a chief mobilizing point because it's personal.
[01:34:47.070 --> 01:34:52.670]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's, um, taboo in some ways for, for, for a lot of their base.
[01:34:53.470 --> 01:34:54.990]  [SPEAKER_17]: Um, and that's the thing.
[01:34:55.130 --> 01:34:57.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: If it's, if you don't want to do it, that's fine.
[01:34:58.150 --> 01:35:02.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: You do you, this is your right, but you shouldn't make it law.
[01:35:03.050 --> 01:35:03.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[01:35:03.530 --> 01:35:11.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's hypocritical too, because, uh, these are the same people that, that say canceling, you know, they're, they're complaining about canceling when they're the main cancelers.
[01:35:11.630 --> 01:35:16.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: They, they say that, um, uh, people should have the right to do what they want unless it's something that they don't like.
[01:35:17.090 --> 01:35:19.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: Then all of a sudden they want big government to come in and regulate.
[01:35:20.530 --> 01:35:22.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's, um, it's, it's hypocrisy to the first degree.
[01:35:23.090 --> 01:35:24.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: Rob, I think you had something.
[01:35:25.590 --> 01:35:26.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: I did.
[01:35:26.390 --> 01:35:40.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's just, uh, you know, of particularly, of particular interest to us here on this program and our community and our listeners, I think is the hacker community's role in all of this, which is to make sure that the lines of communication are kept open.
[01:35:40.910 --> 01:35:42.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Make sure the lines of information are kept open.
[01:35:43.370 --> 01:35:56.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Make sure you just keep educating people as to how to, how to, uh, find their way through the mess of nonsensical information out there to, to what's real and true and, um, worth basing your, your actions on.
[01:35:57.310 --> 01:36:10.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: So wherever you live, whatever threats you're under, um, there, there is a community out there that, uh, that you can link up with and say, uh, you know, be attached to and be part of and contribute to.
[01:36:11.050 --> 01:36:21.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: And organize, you know, because getting these idiots out of office on everything from the most local of all scales to, to the national offices is paramount.
[01:36:21.570 --> 01:36:22.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: It is huge.
[01:36:22.450 --> 01:36:24.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I know, you know, it takes patience.
[01:36:24.130 --> 01:36:37.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: You got to wait for election day and you have to make sure that people are on the same page, can't afford to have any kind of, uh, infighting or, um, uh, just basically, uh, uh, a fracturing of coalitions.
[01:36:37.810 --> 01:36:44.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's, um, the one goal, the one goal should be get these idiots out of power because look at what they are doing.
[01:36:45.150 --> 01:36:50.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: After that, there's all kinds of other things that we can do and argue about, but this is an emergency.
[01:36:50.770 --> 01:36:52.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have to get rid of them, period.
[01:36:53.110 --> 01:36:54.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, Alex, yeah, I think you had your hand up.
[01:36:56.630 --> 01:36:57.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:36:57.390 --> 01:37:10.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: I, um, I, I think, you know, this, this whole law is, uh, it's really ridiculous in, in so many ways, but it could, it could be really, uh, detrimental in a lot of ways that we don't think about the knock-on effect of this.
[01:37:10.430 --> 01:37:21.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: If these laws pop up and then television shows and movies and things have to cater to the lowest common denominator of censorship like this will, will actually affect production down the line.
[01:37:21.910 --> 01:37:26.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: They know that they're, these characters can't be shown in Florida or something like that.
[01:37:26.110 --> 01:37:41.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's, it's just so, uh, frankly, horrible and disgusting to me to, to try to essentially edit out, crop out an entire subculture class of people simply because of their, um, their sexuality.
[01:37:41.930 --> 01:37:45.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just disgusting on, on, on so many ways.
[01:37:45.490 --> 01:37:52.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but I, I think you're right though, Emmanuel, you're in that, you know, like, uh, like the Parson and the Canterbury Tales, right?
[01:37:52.670 --> 01:37:56.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: These guys are guilty of the same vices that they're preaching against.
[01:37:56.790 --> 01:37:57.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Cancellation.
[01:37:57.870 --> 01:38:15.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: And at the root of all of this, though, is I think something that these people who are originalists, who believe in the magic of the founding fathers, they're to be treated like some kind of godlike figure whose knowledge has now somehow extended from the 18th into the 21st century.
[01:38:15.490 --> 01:38:18.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: Their word is, is, uh, you know, is biblical in nature.
[01:38:19.150 --> 01:38:31.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the country was founded on the principles of tolerance, religious tolerance, political tolerance, you know, and how they are acting is completely antithetical to those principles.
[01:38:31.550 --> 01:38:35.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: They are being the most intolerant of society.
[01:38:35.290 --> 01:38:50.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think if they were to think about what our founding fathers would have said about censorship based on sexuality, well, I don't think that they would approve of it based on the same philosophical principles that they espoused in the Bill of Rights and,
[01:38:50.970 --> 01:38:53.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: um, and the Declaration of Independence.
[01:38:53.150 --> 01:38:55.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: We want to be originalists about this.
[01:38:55.250 --> 01:38:59.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: We frankly shouldn't give a shit what anybody else is doing, right?
[01:38:59.470 --> 01:38:59.570]  [SPEAKER_17]: You know?
[01:38:59.650 --> 01:38:59.810]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah.
[01:38:59.910 --> 01:39:05.930]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, weighing in on people's sexuality, they would not appreciate being, uh, you know, treated the same way, right?
[01:39:06.250 --> 01:39:06.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: Into the light.
[01:39:07.990 --> 01:39:08.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
[01:39:09.330 --> 01:39:14.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: I remember, you know, there was very much a... Alex, I don't think you can hear our caller.
[01:39:14.310 --> 01:39:15.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead, caller.
[01:39:15.290 --> 01:39:15.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[01:39:16.310 --> 01:39:16.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Go ahead, caller.
[01:39:16.990 --> 01:39:17.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: You go ahead.
[01:39:18.210 --> 01:39:18.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry.
[01:39:18.990 --> 01:39:22.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: I was saying maybe they wouldn't like being brought out into the light of day.
[01:39:23.650 --> 01:39:24.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:39:24.390 --> 01:39:24.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:39:24.770 --> 01:39:25.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, no doubt.
[01:39:25.910 --> 01:39:26.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: No doubt.
[01:39:26.410 --> 01:39:34.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, also remember that, you know, there was this, this notion of, you know, states rights to, and states can decide certain fundamental things.
[01:39:34.270 --> 01:39:44.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: But the whole point of the Bill of Rights was to set out this territory where, um, you know, the federal government could not, uh, legislate, right?
[01:39:44.190 --> 01:39:47.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the Bill of Rights originally didn't even apply to the states.
[01:39:47.990 --> 01:39:50.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Remember, like, the First Amendment protections didn't apply.
[01:39:50.130 --> 01:39:51.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: The Fourth Amendment didn't apply to the states.
[01:39:51.730 --> 01:39:57.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: But through this, uh, process of incorporation, it did apply to the federal judiciary.
[01:39:58.410 --> 01:40:05.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, and, but even these state constitutions had the freedom of expression and things like that, and association built into it by design.
[01:40:06.050 --> 01:40:15.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think, you know, even somebody who was a staunch states' rights activist would have to look at the state's constitutions.
[01:40:15.970 --> 01:40:20.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they all, to a certain level, reflected the same principles that were in the Bill of Rights.
[01:40:21.290 --> 01:40:35.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, uh, I just see this, this whole sense of intolerance as being something that, um, we should think of historically as being completely, uh, anathema to what our founding fathers would have approved of.
[01:40:35.930 --> 01:40:36.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[01:40:36.850 --> 01:40:39.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: And any other, any other thoughts from, uh, from the call?
[01:40:40.450 --> 01:40:41.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no.
[01:40:41.410 --> 01:40:42.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: My name's Tim, by the way.
[01:40:43.190 --> 01:40:44.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: Tim in Connecticut.
[01:40:44.430 --> 01:40:44.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[01:40:45.530 --> 01:40:46.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: Sorry.
[01:40:46.210 --> 01:40:47.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's just, you always say Doug Collar.
[01:40:47.890 --> 01:40:49.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I do that for everybody.
[01:40:49.350 --> 01:40:50.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: I tried to, except Rebel.
[01:40:50.630 --> 01:40:50.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[01:40:50.850 --> 01:40:51.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no.
[01:40:51.630 --> 01:40:57.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, as usual, keep up the good work and, uh, appreciate you opening up the chat and you guys have a great evening.
[01:40:57.650 --> 01:40:57.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[01:40:57.930 --> 01:40:58.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: You too.
[01:40:58.350 --> 01:40:58.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: Take care.
[01:40:58.970 --> 01:40:59.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks a lot.
[01:40:59.770 --> 01:41:00.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: Bye-bye.
[01:41:00.190 --> 01:41:00.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: You have something to add?
[01:41:00.950 --> 01:41:00.950]  Thanks a lot.
[01:41:01.090 --> 01:41:01.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good night, Tim.
[01:41:01.630 --> 01:41:02.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: Something to add?
[01:41:02.630 --> 01:41:11.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have something to add, which is just, I think a really, I guess it's my life philosophy at this point about anything at this point.
[01:41:12.010 --> 01:41:21.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's if someone is doing something, you don't have to like it and you don't have to understand it and you don't have to do it yourself.
[01:41:22.310 --> 01:41:26.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Your only responsibility is not to be an asshole about it.
[01:41:28.330 --> 01:41:35.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I think that's just a pretty, just a good guideline for life.
[01:41:35.230 --> 01:41:36.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I, I like it a lot.
[01:41:36.830 --> 01:41:38.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: Why the hell couldn't Thomas Jefferson have said that?
[01:41:39.290 --> 01:41:41.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, I would have made things so much easier.
[01:41:41.390 --> 01:41:59.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: I would also think, by the way, Alex, you're talking about the founding fathers and if they were here today, I feel like human sexuality would probably not even crack the top 50 of the things that they were thinking about right now, like cars and electricity and hygiene.
[01:42:00.070 --> 01:42:03.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: There, there would be, there'd be a day of questions to think about.
[01:42:03.470 --> 01:42:05.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: There'd be a whole day of questions, I think.
[01:42:05.310 --> 01:42:07.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: But after that... There's a massive learning curve.
[01:42:07.550 --> 01:42:12.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they... Nope.
[01:42:13.210 --> 01:42:14.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Also, they were...
[01:42:17.230 --> 01:42:17.630]  Yeah.
[01:42:17.630 --> 01:42:19.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not sure where I was going with that.
[01:42:19.270 --> 01:42:21.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: But definitely.
[01:42:22.150 --> 01:42:23.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: So many other things to worry about.
[01:42:24.030 --> 01:42:24.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[01:42:24.350 --> 01:42:24.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[01:42:24.730 --> 01:42:24.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[01:42:24.970 --> 01:42:25.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have a call?
[01:42:26.030 --> 01:42:26.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[01:42:26.630 --> 01:42:26.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[01:42:27.210 --> 01:42:28.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: You are on Off Talk over time.
[01:42:28.870 --> 01:42:29.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead.
[01:42:30.350 --> 01:42:32.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hi, guys and Gila.
[01:42:33.050 --> 01:42:34.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's Johnny Fusion.
[01:42:35.310 --> 01:42:36.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hi, Johnny Fusion.
[01:42:36.590 --> 01:42:38.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sorry, I just heard Johnny in a cough.
[01:42:39.050 --> 01:42:39.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: Johnny Fusion.
[01:42:39.730 --> 01:42:40.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, that's where it is.
[01:42:43.310 --> 01:42:45.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is that particularly funny, Gila?
[01:42:46.310 --> 01:42:48.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just the fact that he said hi, guys and Gila.
[01:42:48.730 --> 01:42:49.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was entertained.
[01:42:49.530 --> 01:42:49.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, okay.
[01:42:51.570 --> 01:42:58.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: I thought it was a chat joke, you know, because I'm not looking at the chat and apparently everybody else is having in jokes now and I'm not part of it.
[01:42:58.290 --> 01:42:59.970]  [SPEAKER_17]: I think that was a safe salutation though.
[01:43:00.070 --> 01:43:01.330]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hi, Johnny Fusion.
[01:43:01.550 --> 01:43:01.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[01:43:02.090 --> 01:43:02.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hi.
[01:43:02.730 --> 01:43:03.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome.
[01:43:03.050 --> 01:43:11.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: I wanted to continue a little bit on the theme of this last caller and more on the hacker response.
[01:43:11.930 --> 01:43:37.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because especially in Florida, but other states as well and not just the South, because Florida is basically a fascist state now under Governor DeSantis, you know, and he's basically auditioning, you know, and he's basically auditioning to be the second fascist president of the United States,
[01:43:38.070 --> 01:43:38.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: right?
[01:43:38.750 --> 01:43:53.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: He hasn't said he's running yet because as soon as he declares candidacy, he cannot be governor of Florida because Florida's constitution doesn't allow presidential candidates to be governor.
[01:43:53.490 --> 01:44:00.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: So he's being coy about it, but he's clearly auditioning to have a fascist government at the federal level.
[01:44:02.650 --> 01:44:06.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: But Montana today has outlawed TikTok.
[01:44:07.610 --> 01:44:09.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I did hear about that.
[01:44:09.350 --> 01:44:15.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you are right, because Dakotas and Montana and Idaho, they're not in the South, but, you know, they might as well be.
[01:44:17.970 --> 01:44:30.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's this conservative minority role state where they're gerrymandered to hell
[01:44:33.510 --> 01:44:35.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: and just conservative.
[01:44:35.710 --> 01:44:55.910]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, Johnny, I just want to interrupt and point out that a big aspect of this to me is is, I think, the naivete of unity, the message of unity, and the sort of overall political, like charitable, like magnanimousness is a nice word.
[01:44:56.050 --> 01:44:57.370]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's my word of the week.
[01:44:57.770 --> 01:45:00.850]  [SPEAKER_17]: I think we've been putting a lot more weight in that.
[01:45:01.010 --> 01:45:06.750]  [SPEAKER_17]: And really what's energizing and on display is spite.
[01:45:07.810 --> 01:45:10.610]  [SPEAKER_17]: You know, this is, we didn't get our way.
[01:45:10.790 --> 01:45:12.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: We're foul.
[01:45:12.390 --> 01:45:19.550]  [SPEAKER_17]: We're going to upend it all in every single possible way and whine wee, wee, wee, wee all the way home.
[01:45:20.010 --> 01:45:21.810]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's, that's what's going on.
[01:45:21.930 --> 01:45:25.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: This is not anything you can really work with.
[01:45:25.170 --> 01:45:26.810]  [SPEAKER_17]: And there's pockets of it everywhere.
[01:45:27.050 --> 01:45:32.470]  [SPEAKER_17]: There's good people in Montana and all those states too, but this is spite writ large.
[01:45:32.630 --> 01:45:34.570]  [SPEAKER_17]: They're mad as hell they didn't get their way.
[01:45:34.750 --> 01:45:38.110]  [SPEAKER_17]: They're mad as hell they're wrong and traitorous.
[01:45:38.330 --> 01:45:39.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: When didn't they get their way though?
[01:45:39.970 --> 01:45:41.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're always getting their way.
[01:45:41.090 --> 01:45:45.930]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, well, well, that no one bought their lie about the last presidential election.
[01:45:46.110 --> 01:45:46.630]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay, there's that.
[01:45:46.830 --> 01:45:47.870]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's them not getting their way.
[01:45:48.030 --> 01:45:51.070]  [SPEAKER_17]: So they're going to, they're going to sink the whole thing.
[01:45:51.310 --> 01:45:52.230]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's the plan.
[01:45:52.370 --> 01:45:52.550]  [SPEAKER_17]: Wow.
[01:45:52.710 --> 01:45:53.870]  [SPEAKER_17]: You're getting it in every
[01:46:00.990 --> 01:46:05.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: Kyle, I think the reason they're doing that is because they have the power.
[01:46:06.130 --> 01:46:08.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think they would be doing it even if they won the election.
[01:46:08.570 --> 01:46:13.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think they'd still be screwing things up and trying to ban abortion everywhere and have guns over the place.
[01:46:13.710 --> 01:46:13.930]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's what I said.
[01:46:13.990 --> 01:46:18.110]  [SPEAKER_17]: Throw the gays under the bus was always... I mean, that was back in 2016.
[01:46:18.310 --> 01:46:20.910]  [SPEAKER_17]: Before then, it was like that was going to be it.
[01:46:20.990 --> 01:46:23.490]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, Tiffany Trump was never going to lead.
[01:46:23.870 --> 01:46:26.430]  [SPEAKER_17]: You know, the LGBTQ plus community.
[01:46:26.570 --> 01:46:27.950]  [SPEAKER_17]: But Trump would have you believe that.
[01:46:28.150 --> 01:46:39.490]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, it's been on their hit list of fun fascist cosplay for their so-called platform.
[01:46:39.490 --> 01:47:00.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, this was the same... like, this doesn't get the same kind of press because of the holocaust, but gender non-conforming people, transgender people, homosexuals, they were victims of the holocaust as well.
[01:47:00.170 --> 01:47:00.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[01:47:00.830 --> 01:47:03.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: They were some of the first victims of the Nazis.
[01:47:04.730 --> 01:47:19.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: That famous picture of the big pile of books burning was a sexual studies institute that studied, you know, people that had changed their gender.
[01:47:21.610 --> 01:47:24.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, this is not something that's just been invented.
[01:47:25.690 --> 01:47:28.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not something that's just been invented.
[01:47:28.930 --> 01:47:30.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: This has been around for ages.
[01:47:30.610 --> 01:47:31.270]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well established.
[01:47:31.590 --> 01:47:33.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: Our understanding of it has evolved.
[01:47:33.810 --> 01:47:34.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's been around for millennia.
[01:47:34.750 --> 01:47:43.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, in Samaria, they use horse urine of pregnant horses to hormonally transition.
[01:47:43.990 --> 01:47:48.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, the first hormone pills were literally the same substance.
[01:47:51.780 --> 01:47:58.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, it's not... it's... it's history repeating, I think, is what we're pointing out in a lot of ways.
[01:47:59.090 --> 01:48:11.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: And that, you know, the tactics may change and so forth, but that that overall sentiment is really pervading.
[01:48:11.700 --> 01:48:21.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's sad in some ways, but I think that, really, it's crucial to not think the best all the time.
[01:48:21.050 --> 01:48:21.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: Right, right, right.
[01:48:21.400 --> 01:48:22.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: As has been done.
[01:48:22.760 --> 01:48:48.680]  [SPEAKER_17]: And be really, really, really practical about dealing with this, this phenomena, and just drop the expectation that this is anything but the kind of hard line and foul politic that it's presenting itself as.
[01:48:48.680 --> 01:49:05.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right, so basically, as hackers, we have to wake up resistance movements to the fact that fascism isn't something that can happen.
[01:49:05.180 --> 01:49:07.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's happening, right?
[01:49:07.580 --> 01:49:08.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Of course.
[01:49:08.160 --> 01:49:09.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's happening in many places.
[01:49:09.660 --> 01:49:11.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's not just as hackers as humans.
[01:49:11.960 --> 01:49:15.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think everybody has an obligation to point to history.
[01:49:16.580 --> 01:49:22.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: But hackers can be leaders for the technical aspects of the revolution.
[01:49:22.900 --> 01:49:23.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: Sure, absolutely.
[01:49:23.160 --> 01:49:24.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Or the owner revolution, right?
[01:49:24.840 --> 01:49:50.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: We need anonymous messaging, strong encryption, censorship-resistant networking, like, get people off these cloud-based services, you know, get back to distributed network stuff, even set up new networks.
[01:49:51.450 --> 01:49:57.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, local networks, like, neighborhood networks, you know.
[01:50:00.500 --> 01:50:01.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Alex, I think you had something?
[01:50:02.950 --> 01:50:04.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just wanted to comment.
[01:50:05.700 --> 01:50:11.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: Kyle, you see, you know, I think you finally found a use for all that horse piss you've been collecting.
[01:50:15.040 --> 01:50:20.940]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm not sure what you're talking about.
[01:50:22.660 --> 01:50:24.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: We learn something new every day, caller.
[01:50:24.840 --> 01:50:25.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[01:50:26.100 --> 01:50:26.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[01:50:26.820 --> 01:50:33.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, what I would like to caution people about, though, is both siding, because we have a tendency of doing that.
[01:50:33.520 --> 01:50:51.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I think what we saw happen with CNN last week is a good example of that, where, you know, they gave Donald Trump this incredible platform and treated him as if he were sane, you know, just a sane candidate instead of his history and the horrors that,
[01:50:51.540 --> 01:50:57.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: you know, he is leading people into and just the utter ignorance and hatred that he spews.
[01:50:57.040 --> 01:51:02.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: All of that was disregarded because he's he's a, you know, he's a front runner.
[01:51:04.440 --> 01:51:07.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, you know, it's not the same thing.
[01:51:07.880 --> 01:51:14.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: You have to realize that you have to realize that it's not like Elon Musk says where it's just freedom of speech.
[01:51:14.680 --> 01:51:16.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: We'll we'll figure it out ourselves.
[01:51:16.940 --> 01:51:18.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, it's not that simple.
[01:51:18.540 --> 01:51:20.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: It simply is not that simple.
[01:51:20.220 --> 01:51:38.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: You would not give somebody who is guilty of crimes or suspected of real horrors the same kind of treatment as you would somebody who is noble in their in their beliefs and and the way they go about things.
[01:51:39.000 --> 01:51:53.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, the thing with the thing, the thing with the CNN town hall with with Trump, that was CNN buying access and in the turn buying viewership, which they can sell that.
[01:51:53.660 --> 01:51:55.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Except they they they lost viewership.
[01:51:55.920 --> 01:51:58.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: They did terribly and they've been doing terribly ever since.
[01:51:58.560 --> 01:51:59.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're paying the price for that.
[01:51:59.880 --> 01:52:02.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, the people who go around saying go woke, go broke.
[01:52:02.940 --> 01:52:05.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're full of it because it's the exact opposite.
[01:52:05.520 --> 01:52:07.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: You do something like that and that's how you lose.
[01:52:07.920 --> 01:52:10.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, Newsmax is now ahead of CNN in the ratings.
[01:52:10.760 --> 01:52:14.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you care about such things, that is what you get when you do something like this.
[01:52:15.140 --> 01:52:16.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: People will react against it.
[01:52:16.940 --> 01:52:21.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: And what they did was, I think, well, they thought it was they thought it was 2016.
[01:52:22.200 --> 01:52:22.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not only.
[01:52:23.100 --> 01:52:24.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it's not 2016, obviously.
[01:52:24.840 --> 01:52:31.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, you know, not only not only did they do this, but they shut out anybody who would ask a challenging question.
[01:52:31.640 --> 01:52:34.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: So they turned it into a Trump rally.
[01:52:35.160 --> 01:52:38.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, you know, they they they did all the catering, I guess.
[01:52:39.080 --> 01:52:41.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: That is not that is not what the media is for.
[01:52:42.160 --> 01:52:42.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: They are not.
[01:52:43.280 --> 01:52:46.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Instead of go instead of go woke, go broke.
[01:52:46.560 --> 01:52:48.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: We should say go fast, lose cash.
[01:52:49.100 --> 01:52:49.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[01:52:50.420 --> 01:52:51.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I guess.
[01:52:51.340 --> 01:52:54.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Except, you know, people aren't going to know what fashion means.
[01:52:54.160 --> 01:52:55.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: It sounds fascist, obviously.
[01:52:55.780 --> 01:52:57.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: But he might be too slick.
[01:52:58.140 --> 01:52:58.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: Maybe.
[01:53:00.920 --> 01:53:02.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Alex, did you have something else?
[01:53:02.960 --> 01:53:14.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it's hard for an organization like CNN to ignore the leading candidate for the Republican nomination for president in the coming years.
[01:53:14.460 --> 01:53:15.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, I didn't say ignore.
[01:53:15.780 --> 01:53:22.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just you don't have to give him a grand stage and and treat him as if he's, you know, completely legitimate.
[01:53:23.300 --> 01:53:24.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: But that's a fair point.
[01:53:24.800 --> 01:53:33.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: But but, you know, I think interviewing him, having him on stage and, you know, asking him very difficult, tough questions, which he didn't answer.
[01:53:33.820 --> 01:53:38.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: He didn't answer the questions and he wasn't asked questions by the audience because they were all Republicans.
[01:53:38.980 --> 01:53:39.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's not fair.
[01:53:40.120 --> 01:53:43.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, he answered them in the craziest way.
[01:53:43.280 --> 01:53:53.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, to to the people who, you know, are not Trump supporters, this just, I think, reinforced the fact that he's totally inane and and not fit for office.
[01:53:53.940 --> 01:53:56.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think we're seeing that really went wrong, though.
[01:53:56.500 --> 01:53:59.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: And you touched on this, Emmanuel was in the composition of the audience.
[01:53:59.860 --> 01:54:06.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the people that want to show up to see a Trump town hall are not really going to be the people who don't like Trump.
[01:54:06.320 --> 01:54:16.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they didn't filter, you know, or try to have some kind of equality in both sides of the aisle here, because it ended up being like some kind of Trump rally when he was saying crazy things.
[01:54:17.200 --> 01:54:18.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: People were cheering him on to do it.
[01:54:19.000 --> 01:54:22.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it just came across as it's all wrong.
[01:54:22.220 --> 01:54:25.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that they did try their best, though, as CNN.
[01:54:26.240 --> 01:54:28.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: What was the woman's name that was doing the interview?
[01:54:28.700 --> 01:54:28.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: I can't remember.
[01:54:29.080 --> 01:54:31.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: It was like Caitlin Collins or something like that.
[01:54:32.080 --> 01:54:35.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think she did a good job trying to keep things on the rails.
[01:54:35.860 --> 01:54:40.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, like Ozzy Osbourne used to say, I mean, this is a crazy train, right?
[01:54:40.860 --> 01:54:42.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this thing is a runaway train.
[01:54:42.620 --> 01:54:44.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's going completely off the rails.
[01:54:44.440 --> 01:54:45.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what you're trying to get with Trump.
[01:54:46.020 --> 01:54:48.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you shouldn't have expected anything else.
[01:54:49.180 --> 01:54:49.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead, Gila.
[01:54:49.680 --> 01:55:05.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: Also, wasn't there... I think I've seen this in a couple of places, that the audience was instructed, not only they were there, you know, ideologically leaning toward is that they had to be Republican or undecided voting Republican, but I think they were also instructed that they were not allowed to boo.
[01:55:05.620 --> 01:55:10.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: They were not allowed to make any kind of reaction that was not cheering or laughing.
[01:55:10.460 --> 01:55:12.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, they were allowed to cheer, but they weren't allowed to boo.
[01:55:12.980 --> 01:55:14.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: What kind of crap is that?
[01:55:15.280 --> 01:55:16.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's fascist crap.
[01:55:16.900 --> 01:55:17.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it is.
[01:55:17.660 --> 01:55:26.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't want to use the word fascist too loosely, but, you know, there are people that are certainly filling the check marks, and they deserve to be called that.
[01:55:26.860 --> 01:55:29.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I don't want to call everybody I disagree with that.
[01:55:29.680 --> 01:55:39.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: But in this particular case, you know, especially people like Trump and the people that he has brought in, yeah, you know, if it quacks like a duck, you got to label it such.
[01:55:40.540 --> 01:55:42.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, it is.
[01:55:42.220 --> 01:55:48.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I mean, what else can you call it when you're not allowed to disagree publicly?
[01:55:48.540 --> 01:55:49.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mm-hmm.
[01:55:49.400 --> 01:55:49.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mm-hmm.
[01:55:50.400 --> 01:55:51.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: What else can it be?
[01:55:51.920 --> 01:55:55.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: The things DeSantis is doing to his critics.
[01:55:55.200 --> 01:56:00.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, I'm not one to, you know, to be a Disney cheerleader by any stretch.
[01:56:00.640 --> 01:56:08.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: But in this particular case, where they are being punished just because they disagreed with him, that is insane.
[01:56:08.840 --> 01:56:10.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: That is not right.
[01:56:10.520 --> 01:56:11.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: That is, that is...
[01:56:11.880 --> 01:56:16.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, yeah, it's not, it's not, yeah, it's not that I need Disney to win.
[01:56:16.340 --> 01:56:18.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: I just need DeSantis to lose.
[01:56:18.600 --> 01:56:18.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[01:56:19.540 --> 01:56:19.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[01:56:20.100 --> 01:56:21.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think that's it.
[01:56:21.100 --> 01:56:27.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: And this is, this is where we meet a challenge though, because there are many people I know who would say, oh, I'm not going to support Disney.
[01:56:27.960 --> 01:56:29.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're, they're fascist too.
[01:56:29.060 --> 01:56:29.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[01:56:29.860 --> 01:56:36.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, you know, sometimes you got to pick which, which one is, is worse than the other and make sure that side doesn't win.
[01:56:36.860 --> 01:56:42.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: And when you do that, you might actually get somewhere and then you can work on, on, on improving whatever is left.
[01:56:43.400 --> 01:56:43.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:56:43.980 --> 01:56:50.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's all about lesser evil in this point, you know, because when you support the lesser evil, you do get less evil.
[01:56:51.300 --> 01:56:56.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, you get, sometimes, sometimes, sometimes you get a surprise.
[01:56:56.400 --> 01:56:56.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:56:56.760 --> 01:57:04.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you still, you still get evil, but you know, that, but when that's the only choices, you want to get less of it.
[01:57:04.560 --> 01:57:04.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[01:57:04.900 --> 01:57:14.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, even in our electoral system, I mean, the democratic party is not on the left.
[01:57:14.260 --> 01:57:16.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's also a right, it's a right wing party.
[01:57:16.860 --> 01:57:23.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's why, you know, when I, when I hear them saying, you know, socialist and communist, these people don't know what socialism and communism is.
[01:57:23.760 --> 01:57:28.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: If they studied history, they'd realize what they're actually referring to.
[01:57:28.320 --> 01:57:31.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: They would know what, what is wrong with those particular systems.
[01:57:31.880 --> 01:57:40.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Instead, they're, they're taking people who are just so mildly over the line in the direction of left and calling them these, it's, it's hilarious.
[01:57:40.340 --> 01:57:42.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: But what's not funny is the fact that people are believing it.
[01:57:45.320 --> 01:57:45.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:57:45.780 --> 01:57:49.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, people, they, they stay in this country.
[01:57:49.520 --> 01:57:54.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: They don't travel, they don't get exposed to other cultures .
[01:57:54.200 --> 01:57:55.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Don't watch Eurovision.
[01:57:55.260 --> 01:57:56.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Don't watch Eurovision.
[01:57:56.580 --> 01:57:57.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: They don't know!
[01:57:58.660 --> 01:58:00.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: They don't watch Eurovision.
[01:58:00.360 --> 01:58:00.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: They don't watch Eurovision.
[01:58:00.760 --> 01:58:01.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: They don't.
[01:58:01.400 --> 01:58:02.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, like me.
[01:58:02.560 --> 01:58:03.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: I lived in Amsterdam.
[01:58:03.520 --> 01:58:06.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: I hung out with my friends in Hectic.
[01:58:07.000 --> 01:58:09.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, they stopped being Hectic.
[01:58:09.260 --> 01:58:10.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: They became Excess for All.
[01:58:12.020 --> 01:58:16.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: But I lived in a democratic socialist monarchy.
[01:58:18.720 --> 01:58:30.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I understood the lie that we were a free country when I lived in a country that had so much more freedom than America.
[01:58:32.260 --> 01:58:34.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: And strong social services.
[01:58:34.960 --> 01:58:37.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, doctors that still made health calls.
[01:58:37.660 --> 01:58:38.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is what country now?
[01:58:38.640 --> 01:58:39.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is Netherlands?
[01:58:40.080 --> 01:58:41.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: The Netherlands, yeah.
[01:58:41.600 --> 01:58:47.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, you know, it's not a competition, but we could probably find things in the Netherlands that are problematic as far as freedom.
[01:58:47.960 --> 01:58:48.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sure we can.
[01:58:49.100 --> 01:58:49.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah.
[01:58:49.620 --> 01:58:52.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: They were, like, they were extremely racist to their immigrant population.
[01:58:52.720 --> 01:58:53.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: There you go.
[01:58:53.700 --> 01:58:54.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know.
[01:58:55.400 --> 01:58:56.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's always something.
[01:58:56.340 --> 01:58:56.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know.
[01:58:57.780 --> 01:58:58.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:58:58.540 --> 01:58:59.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know.
[01:58:59.220 --> 01:58:59.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know.
[01:58:59.900 --> 01:59:02.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Not to look at the whole thing with rose-colored glasses.
[01:59:02.840 --> 01:59:17.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, but I had a contrast of living experience, where I was propagandized through my 13 years of public schooling of, you're in the greatest country in the world, we're the most free, rah, rah, rah.
[01:59:18.260 --> 01:59:26.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we, you know, we, you know, we, no more kings, you know, you know, growing up with schoolhouse rock in the 70s.
[01:59:28.000 --> 01:59:41.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, you know, all the propaganda about how great America is that we're the best, but they never, they never really contrasted with anything, with any other modern country.
[01:59:42.780 --> 01:59:45.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: Just how bad 18th century England was.
[01:59:46.040 --> 01:59:46.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mm-hmm.
[01:59:46.360 --> 01:59:46.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mm-hmm.
[01:59:48.100 --> 01:59:49.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: A lot of good literature, though.
[01:59:51.360 --> 01:59:51.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:59:52.080 --> 01:59:52.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[01:59:52.840 --> 01:59:53.280]  So...
[01:59:53.280 --> 01:59:53.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, sure.
[01:59:54.000 --> 01:59:54.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's always a payoff.
[01:59:55.140 --> 01:59:57.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we still have a 1.600 magazine speaking of good literature, you know.
[02:00:00.080 --> 02:00:02.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, well, we fit in there somewhere.
[02:00:02.880 --> 02:00:03.320]  But...
[02:00:05.890 --> 02:00:06.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[02:00:06.530 --> 02:00:09.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, hopefully you're, you're, you're writing more, you're writing more articles, hopefully.
[02:00:10.150 --> 02:00:10.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh...
[02:00:10.990 --> 02:00:11.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead.
[02:00:11.290 --> 02:00:11.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead.
[02:00:11.570 --> 02:00:14.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: I realized something about the Democratic Party.
[02:00:14.450 --> 02:00:14.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: What's that?
[02:00:14.890 --> 02:00:23.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's basically there for rich people with the contents to vote for something so they don't feel bad, but they can maintain the status quo and keep their money.
[02:00:23.870 --> 02:00:24.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sure.
[02:00:24.450 --> 02:00:25.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, yeah.
[02:00:25.870 --> 02:00:32.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, you know, all that as it is, there's still the better choice when it comes down to certain decisions.
[02:00:32.210 --> 02:00:34.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we can't say it's all the same.
[02:00:34.730 --> 02:00:36.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: As I have said in the past...
[02:00:36.230 --> 02:00:36.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, they're not.
[02:00:36.890 --> 02:00:38.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, they're not all the same.
[02:00:38.730 --> 02:00:40.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, they're not...
[02:00:42.670 --> 02:00:45.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they're beholden to corporations and...
[02:00:45.750 --> 02:00:46.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[02:00:46.370 --> 02:00:48.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, there's so much evil you can point to.
[02:00:48.350 --> 02:00:49.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's so much evil.
[02:00:49.450 --> 02:00:50.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's so much hypocrisy you can point to.
[02:00:51.050 --> 02:00:53.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: But if you sit it out, it's going to be bad.
[02:00:54.050 --> 02:00:56.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's going to be much, much worse than if you...
[02:00:56.350 --> 02:00:58.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Republicans are downright fascists right now.
[02:00:58.850 --> 02:00:59.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they're...
[02:00:59.970 --> 02:01:00.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're...
[02:01:00.670 --> 02:01:01.270]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah.
[02:01:02.030 --> 02:01:02.630]  [SPEAKER_17]: You're...
[02:01:02.630 --> 02:01:03.710]  [SPEAKER_17]: I get it.
[02:01:03.830 --> 02:01:05.110]  [SPEAKER_17]: You're on to something.
[02:01:05.330 --> 02:01:12.310]  [SPEAKER_17]: But you've got to at least, like, put it in perspective and not be paralyzed.
[02:01:12.650 --> 02:01:20.950]  [SPEAKER_17]: Because the more you try to idealize and look for the perfect, the more, like, the better solution will pass you by.
[02:01:21.170 --> 02:01:21.450]  [SPEAKER_17]: Exactly.
[02:01:21.450 --> 02:01:25.030]  [SPEAKER_17]: You know, we can't just put all of this on hackers.
[02:01:25.030 --> 02:01:29.610]  [SPEAKER_17]: And we can't just, like, look for, like, the one silver bullet, like, solution to it.
[02:01:29.850 --> 02:01:35.130]  [SPEAKER_17]: And we all want a better option.
[02:01:35.630 --> 02:01:35.830]  [SPEAKER_17]: Right.
[02:01:35.930 --> 02:01:37.850]  [SPEAKER_17]: But, you know, yeah, it's...
[02:01:37.850 --> 02:01:39.090]  [SPEAKER_17]: There are times...
[02:01:39.090 --> 02:01:43.030]  [SPEAKER_17]: If it paralyzes us, we're stagnant, you know?
[02:01:43.270 --> 02:01:45.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: I understand we've got to be pragmatic.
[02:01:45.470 --> 02:01:46.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[02:01:46.050 --> 02:01:46.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we got...
[02:01:46.710 --> 02:01:50.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: And the revolution has to be multifaceted.
[02:01:51.170 --> 02:01:51.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know?
[02:01:52.230 --> 02:01:53.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: I understand that.
[02:01:53.410 --> 02:01:54.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: We each play our part.
[02:01:55.790 --> 02:01:56.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[02:01:56.450 --> 02:01:56.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[02:01:56.650 --> 02:01:58.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we do got to be pragmatic.
[02:01:58.310 --> 02:02:04.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: So we got to, you know, vote for the best option out of a lot of bad options.
[02:02:04.210 --> 02:02:09.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: But we do got to use the electoral process, because it's the main process we have to affect change.
[02:02:09.710 --> 02:02:10.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mm-hmm.
[02:02:10.150 --> 02:02:10.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mm-hmm.
[02:02:10.930 --> 02:02:14.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, and we have to unite and, you know, work on the same side.
[02:02:14.750 --> 02:02:18.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: Even if, you know, you use the word revolution and somebody else uses the word change, you know?
[02:02:19.590 --> 02:02:21.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: You don't necessarily have to use the same terminology.
[02:02:22.450 --> 02:02:27.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: The important thing is to realize that only by working together will you achieve the goal.
[02:02:27.110 --> 02:02:32.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, you know, if Conor Roy had just dropped out of the damn race, they wouldn't have elected a fascist on succession.
[02:02:33.090 --> 02:02:34.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: Did I give anything away?
[02:02:34.770 --> 02:02:35.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sorry if I did.
[02:02:37.930 --> 02:02:46.270]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, and if you didn't have 18th century England, you wouldn't have, you know, labor laws or unions or...
[02:02:46.270 --> 02:02:46.790]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't know.
[02:02:46.950 --> 02:02:49.330]  [SPEAKER_17]: You got to go through some stuff.
[02:02:49.330 --> 02:02:59.650]  [SPEAKER_17]: And even in this, the solidarity is coming with the acknowledgement that we want different things, all of us, within parties, across political parties.
[02:03:00.210 --> 02:03:13.610]  [SPEAKER_17]: And the consensus is that we have a deliberative, functional political system so that we can sift through and sort what is a priority and how to come to consensus on where we do differ.
[02:03:13.610 --> 02:03:18.630]  [SPEAKER_17]: So, I don't know if that's inspiring or stirring, but there's hope.
[02:03:18.850 --> 02:03:20.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: I believe diversity is a strength.
[02:03:21.250 --> 02:03:21.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[02:03:21.810 --> 02:03:22.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[02:03:22.750 --> 02:03:24.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know...
[02:03:24.370 --> 02:03:26.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: But if there's this bitterness...
[02:03:26.010 --> 02:03:30.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Diversity of view, diversity of outlook, diversity of method.
[02:03:30.330 --> 02:03:30.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[02:03:30.870 --> 02:03:33.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's never hurt me, that's for sure.
[02:03:33.430 --> 02:03:54.230]  [SPEAKER_17]: But if there's this bitterness and this spite or resentment where it's like a zero-sum thing, where it's like, well, I've decided I can't work with these people, or that I won't work on this project, that it's not worth contributing to, or that I'm going to sabotage it with all the power I have,
[02:03:54.790 --> 02:04:02.910]  [SPEAKER_17]: you're going to meet an adversary with that behavior, no matter where you're coming from.
[02:04:03.670 --> 02:04:05.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, like...
[02:04:05.230 --> 02:04:23.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: And so, with the value of diversity, like the opposition, they're all about us alone have the power, and we control everyone else, and we want everyone... we want the other everyone else that's not like us.
[02:04:23.690 --> 02:04:39.610]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, they want to homogenize and rile up and redefine what normal or what the lion's share of people believe.
[02:04:39.610 --> 02:04:43.670]  [SPEAKER_17]: And it's all about that kind of hyperbole and rhetorical unity.
[02:04:43.670 --> 02:04:51.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not that simple, though, because you can get people who are, quote-unquote, diverse to say the things that you're saying as well.
[02:04:51.330 --> 02:05:03.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, that's why you'll see people of color, you'll see immigrants, you'll see women saying things that you wouldn't expect them to say because it doesn't really support their interests.
[02:05:04.090 --> 02:05:17.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it takes away their rights, but you can get people to say these things, and people can believe these things because there are no monolithic masses as far as where people are coming from.
[02:05:17.470 --> 02:05:19.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, don't get surprised, that's what I'm saying.
[02:05:20.350 --> 02:05:22.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, that's true.
[02:05:22.370 --> 02:05:30.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, there's always some that feel like that kind of thing, well, I'll be one of the good ones, and I'll be okay.
[02:05:30.990 --> 02:05:37.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they don't realize it's like those in power will eventually come for you, too.
[02:05:38.430 --> 02:05:39.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: One way or another.
[02:05:39.450 --> 02:05:41.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they do act against their own interests.
[02:05:42.110 --> 02:05:43.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, they don't realize that.
[02:05:43.750 --> 02:05:44.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, they won't.
[02:05:44.650 --> 02:05:52.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, like, look at what the log cabin Republicans have gone through when they were kicked out of CPAC, right?
[02:05:52.870 --> 02:05:55.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: They said, but we're Republicans.
[02:05:55.570 --> 02:05:56.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're one of you.
[02:05:56.630 --> 02:06:00.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: And all the CPAC organizers said, no, you're gay.
[02:06:01.130 --> 02:06:02.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're not welcome here.
[02:06:03.990 --> 02:06:05.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: I would love to be kicked out of CPAC.
[02:06:05.930 --> 02:06:08.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's one of my bucket list things, but another day.
[02:06:09.290 --> 02:06:10.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: Listen, we're going to run.
[02:06:10.770 --> 02:06:11.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's late.
[02:06:11.210 --> 02:06:12.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: But thanks for calling.
[02:06:12.190 --> 02:06:13.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: We hope you write more articles soon.
[02:06:13.650 --> 02:06:15.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: And keep calling.
[02:06:17.490 --> 02:06:17.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[02:06:18.310 --> 02:06:18.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[02:06:18.870 --> 02:06:19.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for having me.
[02:06:20.590 --> 02:06:22.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's always a pleasure to talk with you.
[02:06:23.510 --> 02:06:23.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: Likewise.
[02:06:25.650 --> 02:06:26.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: Have a great night.
[02:06:27.450 --> 02:06:27.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: See you.
[02:06:27.950 --> 02:06:28.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[02:06:29.370 --> 02:06:29.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, folks.
[02:06:30.710 --> 02:06:31.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: Sorry.
[02:06:31.690 --> 02:06:32.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: Gila, looks like you have something.
[02:06:33.010 --> 02:06:38.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: As we are preparing to wrap up, I do want to share one particular question.
[02:06:38.610 --> 02:06:39.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Tim, thank you.
[02:06:40.030 --> 02:06:42.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're going to hold on to that for now because it's been a minute.
[02:06:44.590 --> 02:06:49.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: But the question we're seeing a lot is, will the chat be open again in future?
[02:06:50.390 --> 02:06:51.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, I don't know.
[02:06:51.310 --> 02:06:52.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: I have no idea what's been going on.
[02:06:52.890 --> 02:06:57.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: So Gila, you're probably the best suited to tell us because you've been looking at it.
[02:06:57.450 --> 02:06:58.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have.
[02:06:59.070 --> 02:06:59.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have.
[02:06:59.290 --> 02:07:02.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: It has been fun to watch.
[02:07:02.570 --> 02:07:03.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: There have been...
[02:07:03.650 --> 02:07:06.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: The thing that I thought might happen has been happening.
[02:07:06.450 --> 02:07:09.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: People have been continuing the discussion we're having on air.
[02:07:09.790 --> 02:07:10.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[02:07:10.270 --> 02:07:10.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[02:07:10.450 --> 02:07:10.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[02:07:10.550 --> 02:07:12.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or, you know, in the ether, I suppose.
[02:07:13.650 --> 02:07:14.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's...
[02:07:14.710 --> 02:07:16.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's been fun to watch.
[02:07:16.290 --> 02:07:18.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: People have been respectful.
[02:07:19.190 --> 02:07:20.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: And people have been...
[02:07:20.830 --> 02:07:23.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think slow mode is good.
[02:07:24.570 --> 02:07:25.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Rebel, especially.
[02:07:25.990 --> 02:07:27.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think slow mode is a good choice for us.
[02:07:29.730 --> 02:07:30.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, um...
[02:07:31.630 --> 02:07:34.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think that, um...
[02:07:36.070 --> 02:07:37.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I think it's working well.
[02:07:38.150 --> 02:07:41.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, you know, the chat is a privilege, not a right.
[02:07:42.050 --> 02:07:44.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, we're gonna keep an eye on it.
[02:07:44.510 --> 02:07:45.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, um...
[02:07:45.770 --> 02:07:48.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, thank you, everybody, for being part of it tonight.
[02:07:49.110 --> 02:07:49.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it was...
[02:07:49.850 --> 02:07:50.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: It was fun.
[02:07:50.850 --> 02:07:54.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, it was kind of transparent to me because I was focused on the microphone.
[02:07:55.090 --> 02:07:58.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, but it's good to know people are out there participating one way or another.
[02:07:58.690 --> 02:08:01.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I guess it's good for listeners because, you know, they don't have to just listen to us.
[02:08:02.210 --> 02:08:05.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: They can talk to each other and maybe organize against us.
[02:08:05.790 --> 02:08:06.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, that's...
[02:08:06.790 --> 02:08:07.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's inevitable.
[02:08:07.310 --> 02:08:07.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's gonna happen.
[02:08:08.110 --> 02:08:09.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, might as well make our peace with it.
[02:08:11.930 --> 02:08:12.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead, Rob.
[02:08:13.550 --> 02:08:24.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, while we're talking about, uh, new platforms and, uh, new things we're trying, um, many of you out there may know that we've been on Mastodon for a long time as Hacker Radio Show at mastodon.social.
[02:08:25.210 --> 02:08:28.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, I'm excited to announce that we've moved instances.
[02:08:29.030 --> 02:08:39.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, we've, uh, we, we were talking about this for a while and, uh, while, uh, actually while Rebel was on the phone today, we, uh, pushed the button to, uh, make it happen officially.
[02:08:39.670 --> 02:08:42.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, we are now hosted by the good people at hackers.town.
[02:08:43.130 --> 02:08:46.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, if you, if you use Mastodon, you could find us at off the hook.
[02:08:46.830 --> 02:08:48.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: At hackers.town.
[02:08:48.930 --> 02:08:55.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, if you followed our old account, um, your follow is being transferred over to the new one that should happen automatically.
[02:08:55.890 --> 02:09:02.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, and, uh, yeah, we are looking forward to, uh, this comfy new site and, um, they are happy to have us.
[02:09:03.150 --> 02:09:06.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: A couple of, a couple of questions, a few questions, actually.
[02:09:06.250 --> 02:09:10.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: So there was some kind of issue with the old site, right?
[02:09:11.030 --> 02:09:12.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: Where the people running it were jerks.
[02:09:13.530 --> 02:09:14.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: Can I say that?
[02:09:15.450 --> 02:09:16.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, I think we can say that now.
[02:09:16.950 --> 02:09:17.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[02:09:17.350 --> 02:09:18.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you can see that's the thing.
[02:09:18.570 --> 02:09:21.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: We couldn't say it before because we were afraid of what they might do.
[02:09:22.030 --> 02:09:22.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is not good.
[02:09:23.090 --> 02:09:26.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is not what I like to see in, in social media places.
[02:09:26.390 --> 02:09:30.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: I should be able to say people at hackers.town are jerks and nothing should happen.
[02:09:30.450 --> 02:09:31.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know who they are.
[02:09:31.770 --> 02:09:38.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know anything about them, but the point is you should be allowed to be yourself and not have to be punished for that.
[02:09:38.530 --> 02:09:42.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, apparently we did something on, what was the other one called?
[02:09:42.990 --> 02:09:44.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, mastodon.social.
[02:09:44.550 --> 02:09:45.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mastodon.social.
[02:09:45.550 --> 02:09:57.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sort of the largest, uh, mastodon, um, instance, but also the moderators, the admins of that instance, uh, their actions and choices they're making have been coming up for a lot of question lately.
[02:09:57.430 --> 02:10:01.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, the instance has been generating a lot of spam, um, a lot of bad behavior.
[02:10:01.610 --> 02:10:09.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, uh, moderators of other mastodon instances out there in the fediverse have been talking about, uh, muting it, defederating it, whatever.
[02:10:10.510 --> 02:10:20.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, but that, that will proceed, uh, as however it proceeds, but, um, it's no longer our problem because we are on an instance where they are very, very excited to have us.
[02:10:20.470 --> 02:10:23.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I, I've known the community for a long time there.
[02:10:23.570 --> 02:10:24.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're, they're a great bunch.
[02:10:24.590 --> 02:10:29.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think, uh, I think it'll be a very, a very good fit for us there.
[02:10:29.530 --> 02:10:35.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, uh, many thanks to the folks in charge of hackers.town and, uh, yeah, that's where we are now.
[02:10:35.690 --> 02:10:38.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: And was it, was it a difficult off the, it's called off the hook.
[02:10:39.510 --> 02:10:40.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's called off the hook.
[02:10:40.690 --> 02:10:41.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, great.
[02:10:41.210 --> 02:10:42.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: So it's not a hacker radio show.
[02:10:42.610 --> 02:10:43.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: That was confusing people.
[02:10:43.950 --> 02:10:44.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[02:10:44.530 --> 02:10:45.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's, that's, that's a really good idea.
[02:10:46.210 --> 02:10:58.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, but somehow it's transferring the old hacker radio show at mastodon.social over to off the hook.hackers.town off the hook at hackers.town.
[02:10:58.530 --> 02:10:58.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[02:10:59.110 --> 02:11:00.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: How did that, how do you do that?
[02:11:01.850 --> 02:11:03.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's very, the process is very easy.
[02:11:03.910 --> 02:11:07.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: You just go into the settings of both and it basically holds your hand through the whole thing.
[02:11:07.870 --> 02:11:19.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, you just have to, you know, start, you have to, if you want to move a mastodon instances and you already have one, um, you will move your followers over, um, from the old one to the new one.
[02:11:19.810 --> 02:11:29.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, it won't move your content over the posts, uh, won't be moved over, but it will move your followers over and the old one will then become a redirect that tells people, this is no longer the droids you're looking for.
[02:11:30.350 --> 02:11:31.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: It'll have a link to the new one.
[02:11:32.190 --> 02:11:35.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, um, it was all very, very easy to put through.
[02:11:35.330 --> 02:11:36.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: I did it while we were on the phone with rebel.
[02:11:37.690 --> 02:11:40.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're supposed to be paying attention to the show, Rob, but okay.
[02:11:40.390 --> 02:11:41.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was doing that too.
[02:11:41.410 --> 02:11:41.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm worried.
[02:11:41.710 --> 02:11:43.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: You said, don't look at the chat, but you did this instead.
[02:11:43.730 --> 02:11:44.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's fine.
[02:11:44.210 --> 02:11:44.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's fine.
[02:11:44.990 --> 02:11:48.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, but I, you know, I knew you could, I knew you could move instances.
[02:11:48.750 --> 02:11:51.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: I didn't know you could move usernames at the same time to change, change your username.
[02:11:51.990 --> 02:11:52.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: So that's great.
[02:11:52.810 --> 02:11:53.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's great.
[02:11:53.970 --> 02:11:54.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, okay.
[02:11:54.770 --> 02:11:58.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, let's, uh, let's get more involved in that and hopefully do more things.
[02:11:58.570 --> 02:12:05.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: One question though, you said the posts don't move, but what about, uh, can people see the posts from the past if they followed us in the past?
[02:12:06.190 --> 02:12:09.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: They can, if they followed us in the past, they can still see our past posts.
[02:12:09.430 --> 02:12:09.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[02:12:10.150 --> 02:12:15.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because the instance they're on will know about them, basically, from their following us.
[02:12:16.050 --> 02:12:18.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, yeah, they'll still be able to see our past posts.
[02:12:19.470 --> 02:12:25.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they will, if you want to see our new ones, make sure you're following us at offthehook at hackers.town.
[02:12:25.730 --> 02:12:30.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think this is worthy of an announcement on Twitter, where many people are migrating from.
[02:12:31.010 --> 02:12:32.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: We have done that very thing as well.
[02:12:32.610 --> 02:12:33.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah.
[02:12:33.310 --> 02:12:34.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: So we're still on Twitter.
[02:12:34.950 --> 02:12:36.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hacker Radio Shouts still exist.
[02:12:36.310 --> 02:12:43.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, yeah, this is an indication of how easy it is to modify things if it's not quite working out.
[02:12:43.910 --> 02:12:45.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: So that's really good to see.
[02:12:46.430 --> 02:12:55.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it's a real strength of the federated platform, where if you don't like how someone's running the one you're on, you can very easily move over to another one.
[02:12:55.650 --> 02:12:59.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can't do that with closed systems like Twitter or Facebook or what have you.
[02:13:00.870 --> 02:13:13.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: So if you don't like what the people in charge of Twitter are doing for any reason, like there could ever be a reason not to like what the people in charge of Twitter are doing, you can't move, you know, sideways to another Twitter, but you can on Mastodon.
[02:13:13.950 --> 02:13:14.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do you see all the pearls?
[02:13:14.910 --> 02:13:15.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm clutching.
[02:13:15.570 --> 02:13:16.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: I can't believe that you...
[02:13:17.590 --> 02:13:17.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wow.
[02:13:18.370 --> 02:13:18.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good heavens.
[02:13:19.330 --> 02:13:19.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[02:13:19.850 --> 02:13:21.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, folks, you know, we're not on next week.
[02:13:21.790 --> 02:13:24.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: So we have a vacation coming up.
[02:13:24.310 --> 02:13:24.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: So that's good.
[02:13:25.710 --> 02:13:28.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: People can write to us, oth@2600.com.
[02:13:28.330 --> 02:13:33.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: You can stream past episodes of this program on our website.
[02:13:35.010 --> 02:13:38.510]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's 2600.com/offthehook.
[02:13:38.750 --> 02:13:48.650]  [SPEAKER_17]: There are dropdowns and places where you select what year and month and you can see every show and there are descriptions in different formats.
[02:13:48.870 --> 02:13:50.190]  [SPEAKER_17]: Very easy to do.
[02:13:50.350 --> 02:13:52.310]  [SPEAKER_17]: So I encourage you to check that out.
[02:13:52.310 --> 02:14:00.970]  [SPEAKER_17]: You can also listen on your Alexa kind of personal assistant device.
[02:14:00.970 --> 02:14:11.970]  [SPEAKER_17]: If you talk to some kind of computer and it does things for you, you just say, hey, device, wake word, whatever, play the off the hook radio show.
[02:14:12.190 --> 02:14:12.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[02:14:13.570 --> 02:14:15.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: I guess it's that easy.
[02:14:15.410 --> 02:14:19.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: Or you can play WBAI anytime you want.
[02:14:19.050 --> 02:14:26.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know who did this, but there's a whole lot of commercial announcements before it gets to the content when you do that with WBAI.
[02:14:26.670 --> 02:14:29.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: If anyone knows how that works, I'd sure like to get to the bottom of it.
[02:14:29.650 --> 02:14:33.430]  [SPEAKER_17]: I do think some radio stations have figured out ways to monetize.
[02:14:33.830 --> 02:14:36.650]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't know if that actually gets to the radio station.
[02:14:36.930 --> 02:14:40.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's literally a couple of minutes, more than any other station I've ever seen.
[02:14:40.770 --> 02:14:42.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: I can't imagine that's what we want to do.
[02:14:43.050 --> 02:14:48.390]  [SPEAKER_17]: I sure hope it does benefit the station or that someone can look at that.
[02:14:49.050 --> 02:14:51.150]  [SPEAKER_17]: Or if this was a policy change, who knows?
[02:14:51.310 --> 02:15:00.430]  [SPEAKER_17]: It could have been right out from under a lot of the major stations on, I think in this case, it's the TuneIn app.
[02:15:01.270 --> 02:15:05.470]  [SPEAKER_17]: We'd like to know more about how that works or what might be going on with some of those.
[02:15:05.470 --> 02:15:22.010]  [SPEAKER_17]: Because specifically for a community-run station or other low-power or non-profit ventures, having ads like that, it's, while incredibly disruptive, it's sort of antithetical to the way that stream should work.
[02:15:22.150 --> 02:15:34.370]  [SPEAKER_17]: And it makes the whole radio programming over those devices a lot less, how shall I say, seamless, which kind of is the point.
[02:15:34.610 --> 02:15:40.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: And so, you know, it takes a lot of the luster out of it if you do enjoy listening that way.
[02:15:40.890 --> 02:15:45.870]  [SPEAKER_17]: But however you get this program and other programs, we do hope that you continue to listen.
[02:15:46.110 --> 02:15:46.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[02:15:46.710 --> 02:15:51.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: And as Kyle said, it's easy to listen on our website, 2600.com/offthehook.
[02:15:51.790 --> 02:15:55.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: Every show that we have since 1988 is up online.
[02:15:55.970 --> 02:15:59.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: You can stream it, you can download it, you can trade it, you can do whatever you want with it.
[02:16:00.150 --> 02:16:02.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: 1988, you know that creation band I played before?
[02:16:02.550 --> 02:16:04.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: I said they were around for a long time, 1987.
[02:16:05.050 --> 02:16:06.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: We've been around about the same amount of time.
[02:16:06.650 --> 02:16:09.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: So that's something to imagine.
[02:16:09.770 --> 02:16:11.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: But they were in Eurovision and we weren't.
[02:16:11.630 --> 02:16:14.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that's something we're just going to have to deal with.
[02:16:14.250 --> 02:16:19.870]  [SPEAKER_17]: I just know we're going to be like having you talk to different years of yourself that someone trained.
[02:16:20.090 --> 02:16:23.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: Like, oh, here's Emmanuel talking to 1989 Emmanuel.
[02:16:23.090 --> 02:16:24.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: Do you think somebody will do that?
[02:16:24.190 --> 02:16:25.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: Someone will do it, yeah.
[02:16:25.170 --> 02:16:29.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: So we'll hear each of us saying things that we would never say.
[02:16:30.530 --> 02:16:33.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I guess we'll just get used to it.
[02:16:33.230 --> 02:16:34.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: It'll be the new reality.
[02:16:35.610 --> 02:16:36.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: Alex, looks like you have something to say.
[02:16:37.630 --> 02:16:41.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: I was just thinking, as you brought up this whole Eurovision thing again.
[02:16:41.870 --> 02:16:44.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we have this outro for Off The Hook.
[02:16:44.330 --> 02:16:53.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think we should have a separate outro, possibly one that doesn't have to not have explicit lyrics for Overtime.
[02:16:53.110 --> 02:16:57.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: Except that YouTube will flag us and then people won't be able to see the damn video.
[02:16:57.710 --> 02:16:59.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not really a video, but still.
[02:16:59.530 --> 02:17:00.090]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's a trap.
[02:17:00.090 --> 02:17:02.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: It sounds nice, but it's a trap, Alex.
[02:17:02.290 --> 02:17:04.910]  [SPEAKER_17]: We learned this doing events.
[02:17:05.110 --> 02:17:07.410]  [SPEAKER_17]: And yeah, you've got to be careful with YouTube.
[02:17:07.610 --> 02:17:08.550]  [SPEAKER_17]: Be original on YouTube.
[02:17:08.550 --> 02:17:19.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: I should point out that at times, whenever there's some kind of issue with YouTube, we always have the archive up on that same 2600.com/offthehook site.
[02:17:19.310 --> 02:17:21.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: So you can always find the audio there.
[02:17:21.250 --> 02:17:21.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: Rob, go ahead.
[02:17:22.850 --> 02:17:28.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, I was going to say what you were going to say, which was that's a copyright nightmare as far as YouTube's filters go.
[02:17:28.530 --> 02:17:33.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: But Alex, if you want to sing something before we sign off, I'm sure that that won't trip any alarms.
[02:17:33.970 --> 02:17:36.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, just don't be too good or it might catch it anyway.
[02:17:37.250 --> 02:17:39.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm going to pass on this one.
[02:17:39.210 --> 02:17:43.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: But let's try again next week or two weeks from now.
[02:17:43.470 --> 02:17:43.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[02:17:43.670 --> 02:17:44.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk on the air.
[02:17:44.770 --> 02:17:45.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[02:17:45.670 --> 02:17:46.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[02:17:46.310 --> 02:17:50.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: We can gather and watch Rebel Call In next week and not pick up the phone.
[02:17:50.170 --> 02:17:51.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: But other than that, two weeks.
[02:17:52.050 --> 02:17:56.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd love to see somebody create a conversation of Rebel with Rebel.
[02:17:56.990 --> 02:17:59.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: That would be interesting.
[02:17:59.370 --> 02:18:01.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, I'm seeing a movie in this.
[02:18:01.830 --> 02:18:03.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: Like a Terminator type of a thing.
[02:18:04.190 --> 02:18:05.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, we'll talk.
[02:18:05.590 --> 02:18:05.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: We'll talk.
[02:18:06.510 --> 02:18:07.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[02:18:07.430 --> 02:18:07.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: Night, everybody.
[02:18:08.870 --> 02:18:09.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good night.