[00:00.140 --> 00:04.020] [SPEAKER_01]: It is mere seconds away for that happening.
[00:04.160 --> 00:22.520] [SPEAKER_01]: And while that program is on the air, we would generously suggest for those listeners who haven't done it yet to please consider becoming a financial supporter to this radio station by calling 212-209-2950 or go to give2wbai.org online.
[00:22.520 --> 00:30.780] [SPEAKER_01]: That's 212-209-2950 or go to give to, the number 2, give2wbai.org online.
[00:31.080 --> 00:32.280] [SPEAKER_01]: It's 7 p.m.
[00:32.380 --> 00:33.540] [SPEAKER_01]: Stay tuned for Off The Hook.
[00:52.010 --> 00:53.250] [SPEAKER_07]: I am sorry.
[00:53.430 --> 00:57.570] [SPEAKER_07]: Service to the town, you are dialing, is temporarily disrupted.
[00:58.270 --> 01:06.250] [SPEAKER_07]: Please contact the international operator on 155 for further information.
[01:08.490 --> 01:09.470] [SPEAKER_00]: We're sorry.
[01:09.530 --> 01:15.790] [SPEAKER_00]: The number you have reached, 99.5 WBAI, is now Off The Hook.
[01:21.470 --> 01:25.970] [SPEAKER_08]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:26.910 --> 01:28.930] [SPEAKER_08]: I cut myself while shaving.
[01:29.530 --> 01:31.470] [SPEAKER_08]: Now I've got to make a call.
[01:32.110 --> 01:34.290] [SPEAKER_08]: We couldn't get much worse.
[01:34.970 --> 01:35.610] [SPEAKER_08]: Let's
[01:38.640 --> 01:39.740] [SPEAKER_08]: expect the worst.
[01:40.380 --> 01:42.280] [SPEAKER_08]: I hope that's understood.
[01:42.460 --> 01:43.220] [SPEAKER_08]: One minute, no!
[03:05.330 --> 03:08.330] [SPEAKER_10]: And a very good evening to our program is Off The Hook.
[03:08.740 --> 03:11.580] [SPEAKER_10]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Kyle.
[03:11.580 --> 03:11.620] [SPEAKER_10]: Kyle.
[03:11.900 --> 03:12.560] [SPEAKER_10]: Pretty much.
[03:12.680 --> 03:13.000] [SPEAKER_10]: How are you doing?
[03:13.200 --> 03:14.020] [SPEAKER_10]: I just made it in here.
[03:14.380 --> 03:14.760] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[03:14.980 --> 03:16.740] [SPEAKER_10]: And out in Skype-land, we have Rob T. Firefly.
[03:17.920 --> 03:18.560] [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[03:18.740 --> 03:19.580] [SPEAKER_10]: We have Gila.
[03:20.120 --> 03:20.740] [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[03:21.180 --> 03:22.240] [SPEAKER_10]: And we have Alex.
[03:23.540 --> 03:24.180] [SPEAKER_06]: You do.
[03:24.400 --> 03:24.880] [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[03:25.040 --> 03:26.040] [SPEAKER_10]: And where are you tonight, Alex?
[03:27.340 --> 03:29.000] [SPEAKER_06]: I am not in New York.
[03:29.160 --> 03:29.960] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not in Pennsylvania.
[03:30.400 --> 03:32.240] [SPEAKER_06]: I am overseas in London.
[03:32.760 --> 03:34.000] [SPEAKER_10]: Could have just said you were in London.
[03:34.140 --> 03:34.860] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, that's great.
[03:35.420 --> 03:37.140] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it's not in my usual places.
[03:37.330 --> 03:40.680] [SPEAKER_10]: Wonderful place to be, and it's good to see you.
[03:41.580 --> 03:48.780] [SPEAKER_10]: You might have heard back here in the States, we've had some news today, the U.S.
[03:48.880 --> 03:50.380] [SPEAKER_10]: House of Representatives, you've heard of them.
[03:50.660 --> 03:51.760] [SPEAKER_10]: Sometimes they do things.
[03:51.940 --> 04:06.360] [SPEAKER_10]: Today, they passed a bill with what they call broad bipartisan support that would force TikTok's Chinese owner to either sell the hugely popular video app or have it banned in the United States.
[04:07.800 --> 04:09.560] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, this is an escalation.
[04:09.760 --> 04:14.400] [SPEAKER_10]: It's a showdown between Beijing and Washington over control of wide-range technologies.
[04:14.540 --> 04:17.290] [SPEAKER_10]: It could affect national security, free speech, social media industry.
[04:18.140 --> 04:24.840] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, it's interesting, too, because, you know, we don't know who to give credit to or blame, depending on your outlook.
[04:24.840 --> 04:29.790] [SPEAKER_10]: This is something that, of course, Trump started years ago.
[04:30.440 --> 04:33.520] [SPEAKER_10]: It's something that Republicans have mostly supported.
[04:33.940 --> 04:37.360] [SPEAKER_10]: It's something that Trump recently commanded Republicans to stop supporting.
[04:37.640 --> 04:44.260] [SPEAKER_10]: However, some of them actually defied his orders and approved this bill.
[04:44.260 --> 04:52.290] [SPEAKER_10]: The vote was 352 to 65, and there seems to be backing on both sides.
[04:52.840 --> 05:00.840] [SPEAKER_10]: It's a bipartisan coalition behind the measure, included Republicans, who, as I said, defied former President Donald Trump in supporting it.
[05:00.900 --> 05:05.940] [SPEAKER_10]: Democrats, who also fell in line behind a bill that President Biden has said he would sign.
[05:06.760 --> 05:10.200] [SPEAKER_10]: It still has to go through the Senate, and it's a difficult road there.
[05:10.840 --> 05:17.000] [SPEAKER_10]: But before we really go into this, any thoughts, feelings, emotions about this?
[05:17.100 --> 05:17.680] [SPEAKER_10]: Kyle, you got something?
[05:18.410 --> 05:24.120] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I kind of take issue with it being characterized as his brainchild.
[05:24.120 --> 05:29.260] [SPEAKER_11]: I think it surfaced under his administration, and he went along with it.
[05:29.380 --> 05:33.240] [SPEAKER_11]: But I think we're giving him a lot of credit, just in the headline or whatever you were reading there.
[05:33.480 --> 05:35.720] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, yeah, you could say that.
[05:35.720 --> 05:46.790] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, is it not a priority were he not the instigator at the time or, you know, putting it out in the public sphere at the time?
[05:46.960 --> 06:01.840] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, can we take the personality out of it and think of this as something that could potentially be a software vulnerability, unlike anything we've understood previously with, like, packaged and other forms of software distribution?
[06:02.480 --> 06:05.300] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I mean, there are ways of looking at this.
[06:05.300 --> 06:09.160] [SPEAKER_10]: There are ways of interpreting what happened today and what this all means.
[06:09.400 --> 06:18.080] [SPEAKER_10]: But I think this might not be something that Democrats want to have listed to their credit.
[06:18.580 --> 06:23.860] [SPEAKER_10]: And I say that because there is some pushback to this, and there is some strong pushback to this.
[06:24.260 --> 06:26.440] [SPEAKER_10]: Let me just give you an example.
[06:26.600 --> 06:27.160] [SPEAKER_10]: Eighth graders.
[06:28.440 --> 06:32.000] [SPEAKER_10]: Might not seem like much now, but they will become a force.
[06:32.600 --> 06:38.980] [SPEAKER_10]: Eighth graders in Joe Latour's Lunchtime Book Club rushed into his Oceanside, Long Island, middle school classroom today.
[06:39.900 --> 06:40.420] [SPEAKER_10]: Outraged.
[06:40.540 --> 06:43.400] [SPEAKER_10]: This is ridiculous, they said about the potential ban on TikTok.
[06:43.720 --> 06:47.960] [SPEAKER_10]: The kids came in steaming mad about this, said Latour, an English teacher.
[06:47.960 --> 06:53.920] [SPEAKER_10]: I have middle school students who, at recess, are going out to call the lobbying numbers right now.
[06:54.180 --> 06:56.040] [SPEAKER_10]: That level of engagement is rare.
[06:56.200 --> 06:56.920] [SPEAKER_10]: They're mad.
[06:57.060 --> 06:58.240] [SPEAKER_10]: They're really mad.
[06:58.380 --> 06:59.460] [SPEAKER_10]: This is from Newstay.
[06:59.720 --> 07:02.360] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, look, I know eighth graders can't vote.
[07:02.460 --> 07:08.820] [SPEAKER_10]: But if you get a bunch of middle schoolers pissed off at you, that's going to continue to snowball.
[07:08.820 --> 07:12.380] [SPEAKER_10]: And you might want to back away from whatever it is you're doing.
[07:12.580 --> 07:15.480] [SPEAKER_10]: And I think this might be something that Trump actually is sensing.
[07:15.800 --> 07:24.280] [SPEAKER_10]: And maybe he wants to cast the blame, because it will turn into blame, onto Democrats and get a whole lot of new young voters on his side.
[07:24.420 --> 07:30.820] [SPEAKER_10]: All I'm saying is, this isn't going to pass through the Senate easily or in the near future.
[07:30.820 --> 07:38.980] [SPEAKER_10]: Democrats might just want to not be affiliated with this until it's certain that this is what people generally want.
[07:41.120 --> 07:41.980] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, Rob.
[07:42.540 --> 07:51.300] [SPEAKER_09]: The thing that strikes me about this whole controversy is that the uproar is about TikTok being beholden to Chinese interests.
[07:51.480 --> 07:58.680] [SPEAKER_09]: But what they're actually doing is the same thing that every centralized commercial for-profit social media app does.
[07:58.680 --> 08:04.180] [SPEAKER_09]: Because it's okay when, I guess, Twitter does it to its users or Facebook does it to its users.
[08:04.940 --> 08:07.720] [SPEAKER_09]: That information that they get is being sold to advertisers.
[08:08.200 --> 08:19.420] [SPEAKER_09]: And that whole ecosystem of information brokerage that happens all over the net and that we've pointed out time and time again on this program has real potential to mess with people.
[08:19.560 --> 08:25.700] [SPEAKER_09]: But the instant it's something with ties to another country doing it, that's when there's an uproar.
[08:25.820 --> 08:28.300] [SPEAKER_09]: That's when the politicians get them in a twist.
[08:28.680 --> 08:34.120] [SPEAKER_13]: And if they ban this one app, I mean, first of all, have we learned nothing?
[08:34.600 --> 08:37.480] [SPEAKER_13]: Kids are going to be brewing apps in their basements.
[08:37.760 --> 08:43.280] [SPEAKER_13]: They're going to, you know, be a secret door down a flight of stairs you have to use to watch videos on your phone.
[08:45.120 --> 09:06.340] [SPEAKER_13]: And it's not going to be received, it's not going to be received well, and especially now when you're hitting young people where they live, Emmanuel, I think you make a really good point that this is going to wake up a kind of political activism in the younger class age group in a way that nothing else really could.
[09:07.420 --> 09:09.640] [SPEAKER_13]: You're hitting people where they live right now.
[09:09.780 --> 09:12.710] [SPEAKER_13]: You're hitting the digital natives where they live in a really significant way.
[09:13.860 --> 09:14.980] [SPEAKER_11]: I hope they're mad.
[09:15.210 --> 09:16.190] [SPEAKER_11]: I really hope to.
[09:16.190 --> 09:16.930] [SPEAKER_11]: I hope to see it.
[09:17.040 --> 09:18.860] [SPEAKER_11]: I really, I'm not afraid of this at all.
[09:19.540 --> 09:20.860] [SPEAKER_10]: You want mad eighth graders?
[09:21.040 --> 09:26.480] [SPEAKER_11]: There are so many good aspects of them getting involved in calling.
[09:26.660 --> 09:30.360] [SPEAKER_11]: I hope they do put pressure, eighth grade pressure on legislators.
[09:30.690 --> 09:31.740] [SPEAKER_11]: That is engagement.
[09:31.880 --> 09:32.450] [SPEAKER_11]: That's political.
[09:32.740 --> 09:33.800] [SPEAKER_11]: That is exciting.
[09:33.800 --> 09:36.320] [SPEAKER_11]: Even if I don't agree with it, that is fantastic.
[09:36.320 --> 09:53.040] [SPEAKER_10]: It is, but if they're going and making phone calls to get rid of Democrats because they somehow perceive that this is a Democratic-led initiative, when really it was Trump with his nationalism and anti-China rhetoric who spearheaded this way back, and now he's backing off,
[09:53.170 --> 09:56.190] [SPEAKER_10]: I think for once, let's give him the credit he deserves.
[09:56.430 --> 10:00.950] [SPEAKER_10]: I really think he should be the one to be fielding those phone calls.
[10:00.950 --> 10:08.860] [SPEAKER_11]: I think we can be in agreement that all of these apps really are due this kind of scrutiny.
[10:09.080 --> 10:18.620] [SPEAKER_11]: They're not getting it because they are American companies for the exact same corrupt reasons I think we're all aware of.
[10:18.790 --> 10:22.160] [SPEAKER_11]: They get special treatment, though, because they're domestic.
[10:22.160 --> 10:31.640] [SPEAKER_11]: So let's be honest about the kind of lobbying that allows them preference and garners this kind of scrutiny to a foreign entity.
[10:31.880 --> 10:32.790] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, I agree.
[10:33.000 --> 10:36.460] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, they are... these apps should definitely be scrutinized.
[10:36.660 --> 10:41.740] [SPEAKER_10]: I just don't think that the redneck who represents me in Congress is the person to do that.
[10:41.930 --> 10:49.700] [SPEAKER_10]: I think we should be scrutinizing these apps all the time, and that includes apps that are made right here in the good old USA, you know?
[10:49.700 --> 10:57.820] [SPEAKER_10]: And we should be demanding what we want from them or driving them out of business in the old-fashioned way.
[10:57.920 --> 10:59.860] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, Alex, I know you've got some opinions on this.
[11:03.630 --> 11:04.650] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I do.
[11:04.750 --> 11:05.950] [SPEAKER_10]: Can you guys hear me okay?
[11:06.150 --> 11:07.710] [SPEAKER_10]: If you speak, we can hear you.
[11:07.830 --> 11:08.590] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, you haven't been speaking.
[11:08.590 --> 11:09.430] [SPEAKER_10]: You sound fine, Alex.
[11:10.570 --> 11:10.970] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[11:11.230 --> 11:22.270] [SPEAKER_06]: No, I'm getting some poor connection signals here, and I was losing audio for a little while, so I don't know exactly what everybody had said, but I wrote about this years ago.
[11:22.450 --> 11:23.030] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if you remember.
[11:23.150 --> 11:42.610] [SPEAKER_06]: I wrote in an article for the Philadelphia Inquirer when Trump tried to ban TikTok, and I essentially made the same argument that Rob had made earlier, which is that a lot of other apps are doing the exact same thing, and that quite literally until we have some kind of overarching consumer protection law when it comes to the collection,
[11:42.830 --> 12:08.610] [SPEAKER_06]: use, and sale of our personal and private information from these apps, it's kind of silly and really idiotic in a way to think that we can stop China or stop some foreign adversary from acquiring that particular data because they can simply buy it from other social media platforms or other data brokers and put it all together and then combine that with all the data that they have from various data
[12:08.610 --> 12:16.130] [SPEAKER_06]: breaches, and you begin to paint a really interesting mosaic, a useful mosaic of what's going on in Americans' lives.
[12:16.490 --> 12:24.970] [SPEAKER_06]: So there are plenty of easier ways for China to acquire information about the youth of America, what's going on.
[12:25.070 --> 12:26.690] [SPEAKER_06]: It's already being collected.
[12:26.690 --> 12:28.350] [SPEAKER_06]: This ban seems silly.
[12:28.490 --> 12:30.170] [SPEAKER_06]: It seems offensive to the First Amendment.
[12:30.170 --> 12:39.210] [SPEAKER_06]: It seems potentially to violate other provisions of the Constitution, in particular with respect to the impairment of contracts.
[12:39.630 --> 12:46.390] [SPEAKER_06]: And so I think it should be abandoned and seen for what it is, silly and a political stunt.
[12:46.770 --> 12:47.170] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, Kyle.
[12:47.990 --> 12:49.670] [SPEAKER_11]: Are you idiotic?
[12:49.670 --> 13:15.350] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, so that whenever is that there have been breaches, there have been vulnerabilities, we have other private unregulated or under-regulated industries that are alternative forms that can get us maybe slower or less high-frequency information about people,
[13:15.350 --> 13:23.950] [SPEAKER_11]: but that that information could be found in other ways, it's worthy of us being brain-dead about policy going forward.
[13:23.950 --> 13:26.210] [SPEAKER_11]: I really disagree with that.
[13:26.330 --> 13:32.150] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I think we're being a little harsh on the scrutiny, because the data brokers should be scrutinized as well.
[13:32.350 --> 13:58.710] [SPEAKER_11]: I really don't think that, you know, this is that stupid of an idea, considering the kinds of technologies we're experiencing now and going to be using in the future, and that's part of this, is that we have been asleep at the wheel, and somehow we're arguing that we should just be even more comatose about this whole thing.
[13:58.990 --> 13:59.890] [SPEAKER_11]: That's brilliant.
[13:59.890 --> 14:04.330] [SPEAKER_11]: I love the fantasy, but I'm not on board with it at all.
[14:04.510 --> 14:05.350] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I love disagreement.
[14:05.810 --> 14:07.070] [SPEAKER_10]: This is what makes things interesting.
[14:07.350 --> 14:07.750] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, Alex.
[14:08.670 --> 14:10.690] [SPEAKER_06]: But I don't think we're disagreeing.
[14:10.690 --> 14:23.830] [SPEAKER_06]: I think we actually are fundamentally in agreement there, Kyle, which is that what we need is an overarching regulation of this type of data and the usage of this data and the sale of this type of data, especially when it comes to third parties.
[14:24.190 --> 14:26.570] [SPEAKER_06]: We've tried this on in California.
[14:26.570 --> 14:37.390] [SPEAKER_06]: It hasn't worked exactly well, but until we have some kind of federal overarching privacy law that protects consumers, this type of data is going to be available, and it's going to be available not just to China.
[14:37.390 --> 14:38.650] [SPEAKER_06]: It's going to be available to Russia.
[14:38.650 --> 14:43.550] [SPEAKER_06]: It's going to be available to anybody who wants to purchase this data from any social media company.
[14:44.190 --> 14:56.490] [SPEAKER_06]: Remember, go back not too many years ago, and Facebook was giving away our personal information to any person who wanted to create some kind of survey or some kind of quiz on their platform.
[14:56.670 --> 14:59.070] [SPEAKER_06]: That's how the Cambridge Analytica scandal started out.
[14:59.310 --> 15:02.230] [SPEAKER_06]: So I don't think that we are in agreement.
[15:02.230 --> 15:09.010] [SPEAKER_06]: I think that what I'm saying is idiotic here is the notion that this is going to help anything.
[15:09.810 --> 15:12.230] [SPEAKER_10]: I think you meant to say you don't think you're in disagreement, right?
[15:12.850 --> 15:13.330] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yes.
[15:13.390 --> 15:14.570] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's what I meant to say.
[15:14.770 --> 15:14.850] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[15:14.950 --> 15:15.750] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I agree with that.
[15:15.790 --> 15:16.810] [SPEAKER_10]: Just not to confuse us anymore.
[15:17.450 --> 15:19.050] [SPEAKER_10]: But okay, so let's look at it this way.
[15:19.050 --> 15:25.910] [SPEAKER_10]: If TikTok was not controlled by a Chinese company, would any of this be happening?
[15:25.910 --> 15:35.270] [SPEAKER_10]: If they were doing the exact same collection of data and sending it to a friendly government or a friendly corporation, would Congress care?
[15:35.270 --> 15:37.050] [SPEAKER_10]: And I think we know the answer.
[15:37.290 --> 15:39.150] [SPEAKER_10]: I think it's pretty obvious that they wouldn't.
[15:40.330 --> 15:48.350] [SPEAKER_10]: So can we look at this and say this is simply a way of striking out at anything that's controlled by China?
[15:48.410 --> 15:52.390] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, I'm not saying that's not something we should be concerned about.
[15:53.190 --> 15:57.110] [SPEAKER_10]: But there are so many other instances that we seem to be giving a free pass to.
[15:58.050 --> 16:00.230] [SPEAKER_10]: And maybe we should be looking at all of them.
[16:00.350 --> 16:04.310] [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, I have a problem with Congress being the entity to do this.
[16:04.310 --> 16:10.250] [SPEAKER_10]: I think, you know, people like us, people like the EFF, we're going to hear their point of view in a second.
[16:10.550 --> 16:13.230] [SPEAKER_10]: And many others should be part of this.
[16:13.330 --> 16:15.610] [SPEAKER_10]: And these companies should be exposed for what they're doing.
[16:17.370 --> 16:18.670] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, who's got their hand?
[16:18.770 --> 16:19.790] [SPEAKER_10]: Rob, go ahead, Rob.
[16:20.810 --> 16:30.470] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I mean, the bill in question that just passed the House, the name of this is the Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act.
[16:31.110 --> 16:32.970] [SPEAKER_09]: And this is not about privacy.
[16:32.970 --> 16:37.890] [SPEAKER_09]: This is not about the information about you or your kids or whoever is using these apps shouldn't be out there.
[16:38.230 --> 16:44.750] [SPEAKER_09]: This is about just we don't want applications controlled by certain other countries to have this information.
[16:45.370 --> 16:50.030] [SPEAKER_09]: And this is really, when you look into this, this is really just on the face of it, foolhardy.
[16:50.170 --> 16:57.330] [SPEAKER_09]: Because as you said, like if China wants that information, China can buy it from Facebook, from, you know, anything else, from Google.
[16:57.330 --> 17:00.370] [SPEAKER_09]: Anyone that buys and sells this info about you.
[17:01.230 --> 17:06.030] [SPEAKER_10]: If Singapore wanted to do this, if Singapore is friendly with the U.S., you know, if they wanted to...
[17:06.030 --> 17:07.470] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not picking on them for any particular reason.
[17:07.610 --> 17:15.470] [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, if, say, a right-wing regime someplace, they wanted to do exactly what China is doing, Congress wouldn't have a problem with that?
[17:15.470 --> 17:16.650] [SPEAKER_10]: Is that what we read into this?
[17:17.470 --> 17:30.510] [SPEAKER_09]: In the text of the bill, it specifies that the bill prohibits distributing, maintaining, or providing Internet hosting services for a foreign adversary controlled application.
[17:32.230 --> 17:32.970] [SPEAKER_11]: Go ahead, Kyle.
[17:32.970 --> 17:40.770] [SPEAKER_11]: I just, I'm astonished, again, because what in the hell is legal precedent?
[17:41.190 --> 17:58.410] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, what better use case scenario than this, than with a foreign adversary that, I mean, these companies that own other apps, like they don't, they aren't militarizing technology in the same way, right?
[17:58.410 --> 18:16.990] [SPEAKER_11]: We aren't at the mercy of persistent, like, real economic downsides to active activity that is meant to completely undermine our entire being.
[18:16.990 --> 18:26.550] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, that's not necessarily what any individual social media company, some of them, you know, they're a bit maniacal, I think, and would love that.
[18:26.550 --> 18:35.110] [SPEAKER_11]: But I really feel like this is about setting a tone with one of the very largest markets in the world, okay?
[18:35.390 --> 18:41.710] [SPEAKER_11]: So, we're working on this, like, 90s idealism that I think is out of control.
[18:41.710 --> 18:47.650] [SPEAKER_11]: Because, hello, like, wake up with whatever else is going on geopolitically.
[18:47.870 --> 18:49.610] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, why give an inch?
[18:49.730 --> 18:50.610] [SPEAKER_11]: Why now?
[18:50.770 --> 18:52.690] [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe 20, 30 years ago?
[18:52.850 --> 18:53.430] [SPEAKER_11]: Sure.
[18:54.070 --> 18:54.750] [SPEAKER_11]: Sure.
[18:55.730 --> 18:56.830] [SPEAKER_11]: NAFTA, all that.
[18:57.030 --> 18:58.050] [SPEAKER_11]: But wake up!
[18:58.370 --> 19:04.650] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, I think the thing is, though, even if we do wake up and do this, it's so easy to get around it.
[19:04.710 --> 19:06.630] [SPEAKER_10]: I think that's some of the points that are being made.
[19:06.650 --> 19:07.690] [SPEAKER_11]: That's exactly right.
[19:07.690 --> 19:12.430] [SPEAKER_11]: That's why industry, that's why people need to understand what we are dealing with.
[19:12.650 --> 19:16.790] [SPEAKER_11]: And at least set a precedent for transparency.
[19:16.790 --> 19:21.310] [SPEAKER_11]: And if people don't play by those rules, then don't allow them in the market.
[19:21.310 --> 19:28.150] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, these algorithms, all the private data share, all of that stuff, it all deserves as much scrutiny.
[19:28.270 --> 19:29.910] [SPEAKER_11]: We don't know how a lot of this stuff was working.
[19:30.010 --> 19:31.930] [SPEAKER_11]: People had to reverse engineer stuff.
[19:32.310 --> 19:35.110] [SPEAKER_11]: And I just feel like if...
[19:35.110 --> 19:38.810] [SPEAKER_11]: And this, like, oh, politicians don't know.
[19:39.010 --> 19:41.150] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I think they do, actually.
[19:41.410 --> 19:44.070] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, who has clearances on some of these matters?
[19:44.070 --> 19:49.330] [SPEAKER_11]: I think there are committees, I think there is knowledge that maybe we don't fully understand.
[19:49.330 --> 19:56.850] [SPEAKER_11]: And we should appreciate that they do do some level of reading into some of this that we're not exactly clear on.
[19:56.930 --> 20:01.650] [SPEAKER_10]: I wish I could believe that, but I've seen them acting or not acting over the past few years.
[20:01.850 --> 20:05.010] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, I support...
[20:05.010 --> 20:06.110] [SPEAKER_11]: So it's an entire farce.
[20:06.270 --> 20:08.350] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, they really don't care at all.
[20:08.550 --> 20:08.830] [SPEAKER_10]: Congress, yes.
[20:09.030 --> 20:09.430] [SPEAKER_10]: But I support...
[20:09.430 --> 20:11.730] [SPEAKER_11]: So why are they using language like adversary?
[20:12.190 --> 20:13.270] [SPEAKER_10]: Somebody told them that.
[20:13.430 --> 20:25.970] [SPEAKER_10]: But, look, the point is, I think that technological experts should definitely be involved in this and should be scrutinizing all of these companies and nation-states and whatever to see what's happening to our data.
[20:26.070 --> 20:26.390] [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[20:26.870 --> 20:30.430] [SPEAKER_10]: I just, you know, I think these guys, they're not going to...
[20:31.210 --> 20:32.650] [SPEAKER_10]: They're not going to do the full job.
[20:32.750 --> 20:37.010] [SPEAKER_10]: They're going to do what gets them votes, what gets them headlines, what gets us talking about it.
[20:37.210 --> 20:38.690] [SPEAKER_10]: And they're going to stop after that.
[20:39.570 --> 20:40.510] [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe I'm jaded.
[20:40.510 --> 20:42.830] [SPEAKER_11]: This is technological self-immolation.
[20:43.630 --> 20:45.570] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's a sound, Mike.
[20:45.970 --> 20:46.630] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, Alex.
[20:48.650 --> 20:52.450] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I think I understand what you're saying, Kyle.
[20:52.910 --> 20:57.430] [SPEAKER_06]: But if you're arguing, what I think you're arguing is that this is broader.
[20:57.650 --> 21:03.410] [SPEAKER_06]: We need to think about this realistically and pragmatically in some respects.
[21:03.770 --> 21:05.370] [SPEAKER_06]: But I think if we're taking the...
[21:07.570 --> 21:10.130] [SPEAKER_10]: Alex, you're in a major European city.
[21:10.130 --> 21:12.570] [SPEAKER_10]: How is it you have such lousy Internet connections?
[21:14.170 --> 21:15.310] [SPEAKER_10]: We can't hear you at all.
[21:15.450 --> 21:16.150] [SPEAKER_10]: You're breaking up.
[21:16.270 --> 21:17.250] [SPEAKER_10]: This is nuts.
[21:18.150 --> 21:18.870] [SPEAKER_10]: It's 2024.
[21:22.990 --> 21:24.130] [SPEAKER_10]: Do we want to blame the Chinese?
[21:24.430 --> 21:25.150] [SPEAKER_10]: Do we want to blame...
[21:25.150 --> 21:25.990] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean...
[21:26.690 --> 21:27.290] [SPEAKER_10]: Say what?
[21:27.570 --> 21:28.510] [SPEAKER_10]: We can't hear you.
[21:28.690 --> 21:29.750] [SPEAKER_10]: You're breaking up.
[21:29.850 --> 21:30.110] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[21:30.170 --> 21:31.490] [SPEAKER_10]: Can you call us on a telephone or something?
[21:31.750 --> 21:31.910] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[21:32.530 --> 21:34.690] [SPEAKER_11]: I just think we shouldn't have...
[21:35.190 --> 21:36.230] [SPEAKER_11]: Let's give him a chance.
[21:36.250 --> 21:37.170] [SPEAKER_11]: Go ahead, Alex.
[21:37.190 --> 21:37.730] [SPEAKER_11]: You're groaning.
[21:37.890 --> 21:38.610] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm hearing it.
[21:40.750 --> 21:41.190] [SPEAKER_06]: Sorry.
[21:41.410 --> 21:43.350] [SPEAKER_06]: This is painful over here.
[21:43.450 --> 21:46.090] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know why the connection is so bad.
[21:46.350 --> 21:47.950] [SPEAKER_06]: It was actually a pretty fast connection.
[21:48.710 --> 21:50.010] [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe it's the Chinese.
[21:50.010 --> 21:51.330] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think it's a fast connection.
[21:51.550 --> 21:52.430] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think it is.
[21:54.630 --> 21:55.710] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it was earlier.
[21:56.010 --> 21:56.090] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[21:56.190 --> 21:57.330] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's stop talking about the connection.
[21:57.590 --> 21:58.690] [SPEAKER_10]: We seem to be able to talk about that.
[21:58.890 --> 21:59.190] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[21:59.370 --> 22:01.470] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's talk about the issue before we move on to something else.
[22:02.550 --> 22:02.950] [SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
[22:03.270 --> 22:05.170] [SPEAKER_06]: I think the issue is broader here.
[22:05.270 --> 22:14.290] [SPEAKER_06]: And it's about data sharing and making sure our data, whatever the provenance of it is, wherever it comes from, should not fall into the hands of foreign adversaries.
[22:14.410 --> 22:19.890] [SPEAKER_06]: I think we need to think about this more broadly, as opposed to focusing on one Chinese-oriented company.
[22:20.330 --> 22:21.830] [SPEAKER_06]: Because let's say it was an Italian.
[22:21.830 --> 22:25.150] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's say TikTok, for the sake of argument, was an Italian company.
[22:25.830 --> 22:35.510] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, then they could collect all this data, and they could just package it up and sell it right back to China, which may, in fact, be what is happening through data brokers and other social media platforms.
[22:35.650 --> 22:42.570] [SPEAKER_06]: So I think if it's about the data and protecting Americans and whatnot, then I think we have to think about this more broadly.
[22:42.890 --> 22:49.530] [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, Alex, I'm trying to see Kyle's point now, because, well, you say that the Italians could just do this.
[22:49.610 --> 22:51.730] [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm sorry, Italy, we're not picking on you in particular.
[22:52.530 --> 22:59.610] [SPEAKER_10]: But it sounds like the gun argument, where basically we shouldn't ban guns because criminals will always be able to get guns.
[22:59.730 --> 23:01.030] [SPEAKER_10]: So why have any laws whatsoever?
[23:04.270 --> 23:05.470] [SPEAKER_06]: That's not true at all.
[23:06.690 --> 23:09.070] [SPEAKER_10]: I know that's not true, but that's what people say.
[23:09.170 --> 23:10.550] [SPEAKER_11]: That's what the right wing says.
[23:10.550 --> 23:11.230] [SPEAKER_11]: I'll take this one.
[23:11.450 --> 23:11.850] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[23:12.090 --> 23:12.790] [SPEAKER_11]: I marvel.
[23:12.930 --> 23:14.030] [SPEAKER_11]: I marvel at the idea.
[23:14.210 --> 23:27.290] [SPEAKER_11]: But let's look at any big, broad, rules-based, big, global thing where we sort of say, we're going to get together collectively, and we're all going to agree on this.
[23:27.290 --> 23:31.210] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, how many instances does that get flouted?
[23:31.350 --> 23:33.610] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, just, they don't play ball.
[23:33.750 --> 23:35.930] [SPEAKER_11]: They say they will, and they don't.
[23:36.030 --> 23:37.750] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, look at the UN right now.
[23:37.850 --> 23:45.070] [SPEAKER_11]: How many paralyzed global organizations do we have that are well-meaning and functionally useless?
[23:45.890 --> 23:47.130] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, that's great.
[23:47.130 --> 23:49.170] [SPEAKER_11]: We can say, globally, everybody do this.
[23:49.330 --> 23:50.330] [SPEAKER_11]: Don't use plastic.
[23:50.710 --> 23:52.250] [SPEAKER_11]: There's still going to be plastic.
[23:53.350 --> 24:04.170] [SPEAKER_11]: I think specific targeted things set a precedent so that people say, huh, maybe we should advocate more for our users because, well, they're our citizens after all.
[24:04.330 --> 24:17.610] [SPEAKER_11]: We should maybe protect them instead of interconnecting everything at the lowest cost with no protections and letting them all be victimized, like just completely flayed and gutted online.
[24:17.850 --> 24:19.910] [SPEAKER_11]: It's so silly to me.
[24:19.910 --> 24:25.090] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, Alex, try to say something, and I'm going to read the EFF position, then we're going to move on.
[24:25.390 --> 24:25.950] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[24:27.530 --> 24:28.010] [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.
[24:28.210 --> 24:28.490] [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.
[24:28.610 --> 24:32.750] [SPEAKER_06]: I think TikTok is painted with a very tainted brush.
[24:32.950 --> 24:45.390] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think if we go back just a couple of years, too, we were talking on this very show about the fact that it was incredibly suspect that TikTok examines clipboard data from its users.
[24:45.830 --> 24:49.490] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if you remember this, but this was a long discussion that we had.
[24:49.910 --> 24:50.990] [SPEAKER_06]: We said, well, that's really crazy.
[24:51.130 --> 24:51.950] [SPEAKER_06]: There could be passwords.
[24:52.170 --> 24:53.610] [SPEAKER_06]: There could be stored information about people.
[24:54.130 --> 24:58.790] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I looked into this, and this is one of the things that I wrote about in the Philadelphia Inquirer opinion piece.
[24:59.290 --> 25:03.970] [SPEAKER_06]: And it turns out that there are really good reasons for looking at clipboard data.
[25:04.430 --> 25:06.370] [SPEAKER_06]: You want to prevent spam posts.
[25:06.490 --> 25:09.030] [SPEAKER_06]: You want to prevent people from posting the same data over and over and over again.
[25:09.030 --> 25:11.910] [SPEAKER_06]: And it turns out that TikTok had actually stopped.
[25:12.650 --> 25:17.890] [SPEAKER_06]: So they engaged in better data privacy and data security practices with respect to their users.
[25:18.070 --> 25:25.250] [SPEAKER_06]: And it turns out that so many other apps, like the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal and Fox News, if I understand correctly.
[25:25.750 --> 25:35.190] [SPEAKER_06]: And the ironic thing is they tried to find the article that I wrote for the Philadelphia Inquirer, but I can't access it because it's behind a paywall now, which is, you know, ridiculous.
[25:35.190 --> 25:43.990] [SPEAKER_06]: But if I recall correctly from that article, all these other apps, all these American apps were doing the very same thing that we had condemned TikTok for doing.
[25:44.330 --> 25:46.870] [SPEAKER_06]: And it is a wider problem as well.
[25:47.010 --> 25:55.350] [SPEAKER_06]: It's more systemic in that the very same business that has made American companies like Face.
[25:59.320 --> 26:00.240] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, okay.
[26:00.540 --> 26:01.620] [SPEAKER_10]: I totally agree with that.
[26:01.680 --> 26:05.060] [SPEAKER_11]: And I just want to say, like, maybe it's the wrong law.
[26:05.220 --> 26:06.520] [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe it's a bad law.
[26:06.520 --> 26:08.300] [SPEAKER_11]: That is part of our process, too.
[26:08.360 --> 26:10.180] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, let's meet there.
[26:10.340 --> 26:10.780] [SPEAKER_11]: Let's meet there.
[26:10.780 --> 26:11.800] [SPEAKER_10]: It's a bad law.
[26:11.940 --> 26:13.840] [SPEAKER_10]: I think there are better ways of saying it.
[26:14.020 --> 26:22.240] [SPEAKER_11]: We learn from these things, and they develop and become better legislation, ultimately, and hopefully affect society.
[26:23.260 --> 26:26.060] [SPEAKER_10]: Alex, you want to try to finish that thought or maybe call us on the phone or something?
[26:28.060 --> 26:29.540] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'll try.
[26:29.920 --> 26:30.380] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[26:30.460 --> 26:31.880] [SPEAKER_06]: What the hell is going on here?
[26:32.040 --> 26:34.140] [SPEAKER_06]: What was the last thing that you heard me say?
[26:34.660 --> 26:35.880] [SPEAKER_06]: Do you even recall?
[26:35.880 --> 26:45.360] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, but in a sense, the thought that I was trying to finish, the point that I was trying to make is that TikTok has engaged in the very same practices and the very same business models that have made U.S.
[26:45.540 --> 26:53.680] [SPEAKER_06]: companies literally billions of dollars exploiting the personal information and web browsing habits and social media habits of Americans.
[26:53.680 --> 27:02.260] [SPEAKER_06]: And so we're condemning them for the very same practices that American companies have utilized for so many years now.
[27:02.620 --> 27:14.140] [SPEAKER_06]: And until we address the wider systemic issue of making billions of dollars off of essentially surveillance capitalism, we're going to be finding ourselves in the same boat over and over and over again.
[27:14.140 --> 27:15.660] [SPEAKER_06]: This seems xenophobic.
[27:15.780 --> 27:17.040] [SPEAKER_06]: It seems unconstitutional.
[27:17.260 --> 27:18.680] [SPEAKER_06]: It seems offensive to the First Amendment.
[27:19.400 --> 27:21.820] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think it's a political charade.
[27:22.260 --> 27:22.740] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[27:22.920 --> 27:31.720] [SPEAKER_10]: And my only point on that is that if it is seen that way in the end, and if it never gets passed by the Senate, do Democrats really want that on their shoulders?
[27:31.720 --> 27:38.240] [SPEAKER_10]: If it can be used against them by Republicans, the ultimate irony, you know, who is attacking freedom of speech more?
[27:38.480 --> 27:41.340] [SPEAKER_10]: Who is, you know, the risk to democracy more?
[27:41.700 --> 27:44.700] [SPEAKER_10]: So it's just, you know, politically, let's think this through.
[27:44.780 --> 27:51.360] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, what EFF said about this, quickly, they put out a piece about this.
[27:52.100 --> 27:59.220] [SPEAKER_10]: Congress's unfounded plan to ban TikTok under the guise of protecting our data is back, this time in the form of a new bill.
[27:59.220 --> 28:07.240] [SPEAKER_10]: The Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act, HR 7521, which has gained a dangerous amount of momentum in Congress.
[28:07.960 --> 28:15.860] [SPEAKER_10]: This bipartisan legislation was introduced in the House just a week ago and is expected to be sent to the Senate after a vote this week, which has already taken place.
[28:16.280 --> 28:24.720] [SPEAKER_10]: A year ago, supporters of digital rights across the country successfully stopped the Federal Restrict Act, commonly known as the TikTok ban, TikTok ban bill.
[28:25.000 --> 28:26.520] [SPEAKER_10]: It was that and a whole lot more.
[28:26.520 --> 28:28.280] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, we must do the same with this bill.
[28:28.740 --> 28:39.220] [SPEAKER_10]: As a first step, HR 7521 would force TikTok to find a new owner that is not based in a foreign adversarial country within the next 180 days or be banned until it does so.
[28:39.440 --> 28:46.660] [SPEAKER_10]: It would also give the president the power to designate other applications under the control of a country considered adversarial to the U.S.
[28:47.060 --> 28:48.800] [SPEAKER_10]: to be a national security threat.
[28:49.480 --> 28:59.900] [SPEAKER_10]: If deemed the national security threat, the application would be banned from app stores and web hosting services unless it cuts all ties with the foreign adversarial country within 180 days.
[29:00.080 --> 29:08.160] [SPEAKER_10]: The bill would criminalize the distribution of the application through app stores or other web services, as well as the maintenance of such an app by the company.
[29:08.400 --> 29:15.580] [SPEAKER_10]: Ultimately, the result of the bill would either be a nationwide ban on TikTok or a forced sale of the application to a different company.
[29:15.580 --> 29:18.640] [SPEAKER_10]: Make no mistake, though, this law starts with TikTok specifically.
[29:18.900 --> 29:20.580] [SPEAKER_10]: It could have an impact elsewhere.
[29:21.180 --> 29:29.820] [SPEAKER_10]: Tencent's WeChat app is one of the world's largest standalone messenger platforms with over a billion users and is a key vehicle for the Chinese diaspora generally.
[29:29.820 --> 29:31.420] [SPEAKER_10]: It would likely also be a target.
[29:31.780 --> 29:42.800] [SPEAKER_10]: The bill's sponsors have argued that the amount of private data available to and collected by the companies behind these applications and, in theory, shared with the foreign government makes them a national security threat.
[29:42.800 --> 29:48.720] [SPEAKER_10]: But like the Restrict Act, this bill won't stop this data sharing and will instead reduce our rights online.
[29:49.220 --> 29:58.660] [SPEAKER_10]: User data will still be collected by numerous platforms, possibly even TikTok after a forced sale, and it will still be sold to data brokers who can then sell it elsewhere just as they do now.
[29:58.880 --> 30:05.140] [SPEAKER_10]: The only solution to this pervasive ecosystem is prohibiting the collection of our data in the first place.
[30:05.600 --> 30:14.580] [SPEAKER_10]: Ultimately, foreign adversaries will still be able to obtain our data from social media companies, unless those companies are forbidden from collecting, retaining, and selling at full stop.
[30:14.820 --> 30:23.240] [SPEAKER_10]: And to be clear, under our current data privacy laws, there are many domestic adversaries engaged in manipulative and invasive data collection as well.
[30:23.420 --> 30:27.700] [SPEAKER_10]: That's why EFF supports such consumer data privacy legislation.
[30:27.980 --> 30:35.100] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, Congress has also argued this bill is necessary to tackle the anti-American propaganda that young people are seeing due to TikTok's algorithm.
[30:35.100 --> 30:40.100] [SPEAKER_10]: Both this justification and the national security justification raised serious First Amendment concerns.
[30:40.340 --> 30:54.040] [SPEAKER_10]: And last week, EFF, the ACLU, CDT, and Fight for the Future wrote to the House Energy and Commerce Committee urging them to oppose this bill due to its First Amendment violations, specifically for those across the country who rely on TikTok for information,
[30:54.460 --> 30:56.340] [SPEAKER_10]: advocacy, entertainment, and communication.
[30:56.640 --> 30:57.320] [SPEAKER_10]: The U.S.
[30:57.400 --> 31:03.460] [SPEAKER_10]: has rightfully condemned other countries when they have banned or sought a ban on specific social media platforms.
[31:03.740 --> 31:06.240] [SPEAKER_10]: And it's not just civil society saying this.
[31:06.360 --> 31:22.940] [SPEAKER_10]: Late last year, the courts blocked Montana's TikTok ban, SB 419, from going into effect on January 1st, ruling that the law violated users' First Amendment rights to speak and to access information online and the company's First Amendment rights to select and curate users' content.
[31:23.280 --> 31:31.660] [SPEAKER_10]: EFF and the ACLU had filed a friend of the court brief in support of a challenge to the law brought by TikTok and a group of the app's users who live in Montana.
[31:32.520 --> 31:35.480] [SPEAKER_10]: That pretty much sums it all up.
[31:35.640 --> 31:36.760] [SPEAKER_10]: But, Kyle, you want a final word on this?
[31:36.880 --> 31:39.620] [SPEAKER_10]: Then we're going to move on to some other stories because there are other things going on.
[31:40.520 --> 31:45.800] [SPEAKER_11]: There's no final, but I mean, I would just say, if there is zero risk, prove it.
[31:46.600 --> 31:48.680] [SPEAKER_11]: All the way around with any of these things.
[31:49.040 --> 31:51.720] [SPEAKER_11]: And that, I think, is the consumer interest standpoint.
[31:52.880 --> 31:53.380] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[31:53.480 --> 32:03.420] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, if you have an opinion on this, you can either call us on Overtime later at 8 o'clock on YouTube or write to us, oth@2600.com.
[32:04.400 --> 32:10.760] [SPEAKER_10]: And we will be happy to read all of our listeners' email and perhaps read it over the air as well.
[32:11.980 --> 32:22.080] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, speaking of social media and restrictions and clampdowns and things like that, I hear about this story involving Elon Musk yet again.
[32:23.760 --> 32:32.060] [SPEAKER_10]: He basically managed to cancel a new show that was appearing through X because he didn't like how an interview went.
[32:32.220 --> 32:32.360] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[32:32.400 --> 32:41.340] [SPEAKER_10]: In the wake of a testy interview with Elon Musk, the former television anchor Don Lemon's deal for a new talk show on, I'm not saying X, on Twitter.
[32:41.860 --> 32:42.780] [SPEAKER_10]: It's Twitter.
[32:43.800 --> 32:58.360] [SPEAKER_10]: Combusted just days before it was scheduled to air, Mr. Musk called off Mr. Lemon's partnership with Twitter the day after filming an hour-and-a-half-long interview with the former news anchor at SpaceX's office in Austin, Texas.
[32:58.640 --> 33:05.660] [SPEAKER_10]: The conversation was occasionally tense, according to Mr. Lemon, as he asked probing questions about the upcoming U.S.
[33:05.760 --> 33:06.880] [SPEAKER_10]: presidential elections.
[33:06.880 --> 33:11.340] [SPEAKER_10]: Mr. Musk's reported drug use and his various business ventures.
[33:12.380 --> 33:19.880] [SPEAKER_10]: Mr. Lemon said he would release the interview on March 18th on YouTube and would continue to share his content on Twitter.
[33:20.140 --> 33:26.120] [SPEAKER_10]: My questions are respectful and wide-ranging, covering everything from SpaceX to the presidential election, Lemon said.
[33:26.120 --> 33:27.240] [SPEAKER_10]: We had a good conversation.
[33:27.840 --> 33:28.880] [SPEAKER_10]: Clearly, he felt differently.
[33:29.100 --> 33:39.040] [SPEAKER_10]: His commitment to a global town square where all questions can be asked and all ideas can be shared seems not to include questions of him from people like me.
[33:40.360 --> 33:52.580] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, I think that just goes to show that when someone has control of something really, really powerful, like Twitter, or whatever they call it today, that power almost inevitably will be abused.
[33:53.660 --> 33:55.420] [SPEAKER_10]: And I think that's what we're seeing here.
[33:55.680 --> 33:55.980] [SPEAKER_10]: Thoughts?
[33:57.200 --> 33:57.860] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, Gail.
[33:58.220 --> 34:02.220] [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, first of all, I'm just entertained by we Googled this.
[34:03.180 --> 34:08.160] [SPEAKER_13]: And most people are saying Don Lemon's show was abruptly canceled, except the New York Post starts.
[34:08.260 --> 34:09.580] [SPEAKER_13]: Don Lemon was fired again.
[34:09.580 --> 34:11.620] [SPEAKER_13]: So, God bless the New York Post.
[34:12.140 --> 34:18.680] [SPEAKER_13]: But, also, no, is anybody surprised by this?
[34:18.980 --> 34:21.680] [SPEAKER_13]: Elon Musk is a free speech absolutist?
[34:21.820 --> 34:22.980] [SPEAKER_13]: Are you kidding me?
[34:23.340 --> 34:23.980] [SPEAKER_13]: No.
[34:24.240 --> 34:26.580] [SPEAKER_13]: It's what he likes and what he's okay with.
[34:26.580 --> 34:28.380] [SPEAKER_13]: And his feelings got hurt.
[34:28.380 --> 34:33.840] [SPEAKER_13]: And let's remember, this is all happening because he got his feelings hurt.
[34:34.620 --> 34:35.260] [SPEAKER_13]: Right?
[34:35.260 --> 34:41.420] [SPEAKER_13]: He bought Twitter because he got broken up with and he was sad.
[34:42.260 --> 34:48.340] [SPEAKER_13]: And he couldn't just go buy a sports car, so he bought Twitter.
[34:49.660 --> 34:56.660] [SPEAKER_13]: This is all happening because this is a petty man who gets his feelings hurt really, really easily.
[34:56.900 --> 34:57.860] [SPEAKER_10]: Can we be careful here?
[34:57.860 --> 34:59.420] [SPEAKER_10]: Because we still have a Twitter account.
[34:59.620 --> 35:01.920] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, we use it sometimes.
[35:03.360 --> 35:04.840] [SPEAKER_10]: Can you walk that back, maybe?
[35:05.580 --> 35:06.820] [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, probably not anymore.
[35:07.080 --> 35:07.580] [SPEAKER_13]: Just keep him happy.
[35:08.320 --> 35:16.420] [SPEAKER_10]: No, I mean, we're living in an age of big babies that have so much control and are unleashing their rage on everybody around them.
[35:16.660 --> 35:18.200] [SPEAKER_10]: Why do we keep accepting this?
[35:18.320 --> 35:20.680] [SPEAKER_10]: Why do we keep saying this is normal and okay?
[35:21.100 --> 35:23.840] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, we don't have to do this.
[35:24.200 --> 35:25.580] [SPEAKER_10]: It's the theme of the evening.
[35:25.580 --> 35:26.160] [SPEAKER_10]: Sorry, Kyle.
[35:26.160 --> 35:29.740] [SPEAKER_11]: I think people are really unaccountable, generally.
[35:30.480 --> 35:32.120] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, and there's a lot of...
[35:32.120 --> 35:32.700] [SPEAKER_11]: Certain people.
[35:32.900 --> 35:41.740] [SPEAKER_11]: A lot of stuff that they might present as evidence for allowing them to behave as they are.
[35:42.060 --> 35:46.240] [SPEAKER_11]: And that, you know, we aren't considerate or understanding enough of them.
[35:46.240 --> 35:48.640] [SPEAKER_11]: And I kind of get that.
[35:49.120 --> 36:01.240] [SPEAKER_11]: I think that, you know, people have to do work at, you know, being who they are, especially if they're responsible for other people and how things operate.
[36:01.380 --> 36:12.560] [SPEAKER_11]: And we've seen some of that myopic management from a lot of the titans we've witnessed over the years, shall I say.
[36:12.560 --> 36:17.840] [SPEAKER_10]: They really do not behave like adults at all.
[36:17.900 --> 36:18.700] [SPEAKER_10]: They behave like children.
[36:18.840 --> 36:19.860] [SPEAKER_10]: That's what you were saying, Gil.
[36:20.040 --> 36:22.240] [SPEAKER_10]: It's basically they have their big toys.
[36:22.520 --> 36:37.400] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, if us, you know, the mobs of people at the bottom, if we don't give them the, I guess, reverence that they demand of us, then we get punished.
[36:37.400 --> 36:43.960] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, this is, you know, it's no different than being a serf back in the old days, except it's with modern technology now.
[36:43.960 --> 36:47.140] [SPEAKER_10]: And maybe we can talk about it a little bit more amongst ourselves.
[36:47.400 --> 36:50.120] [SPEAKER_10]: But the mentality is still the same.
[36:50.320 --> 36:56.680] [SPEAKER_10]: These people have way too much power, way too much control, and they need to be brought down a few pegs hard.
[36:57.140 --> 36:57.640] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, Gil.
[36:57.640 --> 36:58.540] [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[36:58.760 --> 37:07.320] [SPEAKER_13]: But that was the thing that, and I'm sorry to bring this back for a moment, but I was looking at the text of the bill as it stands right now.
[37:08.380 --> 37:19.640] [SPEAKER_13]: And what it reminds me of, more than anything else in the whole entire world, is when elementary schoolers decide they're going to make a club out of hating someone.
[37:20.400 --> 37:30.840] [SPEAKER_13]: One, this is the I hate TikTok club, writ large, and about to get signed into, well, probably not about to get signed into law, but theoretically possibly going to be able to get signed into law at some point.
[37:31.080 --> 37:40.480] [SPEAKER_13]: Because what it says is, we hate TikTok, and anything else that TikTok might turn into, and if anybody else wants to pile on top of this at some point in the future, that's fine.
[37:40.600 --> 37:45.100] [SPEAKER_13]: But TikTok really sucks, and we want that enacted into law.
[37:45.100 --> 37:47.740] [SPEAKER_10]: Somehow we veered back into TikTok.
[37:47.740 --> 37:48.560] [SPEAKER_10]: How did that happen?
[37:48.620 --> 37:51.540] [SPEAKER_10]: We were talking about Twitter, and Elon Musk, and Don Lemon.
[37:51.700 --> 37:51.820] [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[37:52.140 --> 37:53.680] [SPEAKER_13]: But it's all the...
[37:53.680 --> 38:03.760] [SPEAKER_13]: It's not infantilization, but it is the dogged childishness of so much of what the national discourse has turned into.
[38:05.100 --> 38:10.060] [SPEAKER_13]: And Twitter has become, if you hurt my feelings, you're off my platform.
[38:10.300 --> 38:14.880] [SPEAKER_13]: This place that was the de facto town square for the entire world for a long time.
[38:15.100 --> 38:22.040] [SPEAKER_13]: And then Congress standing together saying, we hate this person, and if you don't hate this person, then you're a bad American.
[38:23.120 --> 38:27.720] [SPEAKER_13]: It's like, why is the entire world in kindergarten right now?
[38:28.420 --> 38:28.900] [SPEAKER_10]: Why?
[38:29.200 --> 38:29.540] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[38:30.060 --> 38:31.900] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I mean, it goes well beyond that.
[38:32.080 --> 38:39.940] [SPEAKER_10]: It goes towards, you know, immigration and right-wing hatred of all that that is different, attacks on the trans community, attacks on the gay community.
[38:40.580 --> 38:41.900] [SPEAKER_10]: We don't have enough time.
[38:42.180 --> 38:45.080] [SPEAKER_10]: It's just very dark times.
[38:45.160 --> 38:46.740] [SPEAKER_10]: And that's why we have to stay awake.
[38:46.960 --> 38:59.700] [SPEAKER_10]: We have to not allow ourselves to be tricked into using language and Orwellian ways that are exactly, you know, mean exactly the opposite of what the truth actually represents.
[39:00.060 --> 39:02.120] [SPEAKER_10]: And that happens a lot in the world of politics.
[39:02.120 --> 39:03.380] [SPEAKER_10]: You have to be careful.
[39:03.640 --> 39:14.680] [SPEAKER_10]: You'll find yourself being accused of somehow attacking somebody's freedom of speech when what they're trying to do is something filled with hatred and violence.
[39:15.400 --> 39:17.900] [SPEAKER_10]: And then you become the enemy of freedom.
[39:18.080 --> 39:26.720] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, you have to be very careful because, you know, the people that we see as dangerous to the future of our country are very good at what they do.
[39:26.720 --> 39:27.960] [SPEAKER_10]: They really are.
[39:28.100 --> 39:28.940] [SPEAKER_10]: They know what they're doing.
[39:29.080 --> 39:40.040] [SPEAKER_10]: They know how to get the sound bites and to make it seem like people are doing the opposite of what they are actually doing and to basically get us so upset that we become unhinged.
[39:40.180 --> 39:42.140] [SPEAKER_10]: And we have to be careful in the next few months.
[39:42.600 --> 39:50.220] [SPEAKER_10]: Boy, we have to be careful to get it right and to participate and to always remember the power that we have.
[39:50.220 --> 40:09.780] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I think things can easily become polar like because of the hyperbolic environment politically co-opted, I think is what Gila is getting at and and mutate into this like broader unrest in that may have deeper kind of anger and roots.
[40:10.760 --> 40:11.240] [SPEAKER_13]: Exactly.
[40:11.720 --> 40:21.240] [SPEAKER_13]: And just to localize it for a moment for our New York audience and, you know, since we are on terrestrial radio right now, the Shen Yun posters, right?
[40:21.360 --> 40:23.700] [SPEAKER_13]: They're up all over the place because Shen Yun is coming back.
[40:23.820 --> 40:29.000] [SPEAKER_13]: And it's not that it's, you know, remember a few years ago when it was just like a weird dance thing?
[40:29.340 --> 40:37.320] [SPEAKER_13]: And now all the posters say now what China before communism, they all say China before communism.
[40:37.320 --> 40:39.860] [SPEAKER_13]: And that's why you should come see Chen Yun, because that's.
[40:41.540 --> 40:44.560] [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, I always thought it was weird and I was never like super on board with it.
[40:44.680 --> 40:47.560] [SPEAKER_13]: And then I sort of hear weird things about what it was, but like.
[40:48.340 --> 40:48.740] [SPEAKER_13]: What?
[40:49.520 --> 40:56.760] [SPEAKER_13]: How is going to see this dance performance a strike against the Chinese Communist Party, which is how they're trying to frame it?
[40:57.680 --> 40:58.780] [SPEAKER_13]: I don't understand.
[40:58.980 --> 41:03.640] [SPEAKER_10]: I think we can see that in in so many other examples as well.
[41:03.640 --> 41:10.000] [SPEAKER_10]: Anything that is at all controversial or in the news is being politicized in one form or another.
[41:10.340 --> 41:16.020] [SPEAKER_10]: And you're wrong if you don't support everything that is said on a poster or in a speech or whatever.
[41:16.540 --> 41:22.800] [SPEAKER_10]: Hey, a little bit of business we have to do here because we are on WBAI, on a radio station.
[41:22.800 --> 41:29.760] [SPEAKER_10]: And we mentioned this last week that it's important for us to raise a certain amount of money each month.
[41:29.760 --> 41:39.500] [SPEAKER_10]: And we hope that people are phoning in or going to the website, the phone number 212-209-2950 or the website give2wbai.org.
[41:39.500 --> 41:47.720] [SPEAKER_10]: And pledging whatever they can afford in the name of off the hook so that we reach that $350 goal for the month, which is really not that much to ask for.
[41:48.580 --> 41:55.160] [SPEAKER_10]: Jim writes in, is that $350 by the end of the month going to be for every month?
[41:55.560 --> 42:01.780] [SPEAKER_10]: And Jim, you titled your email WBAI Ransom, so I kind of get the feeling that you're not happy about this.
[42:02.840 --> 42:04.700] [SPEAKER_10]: Listen, yes, it is every month.
[42:05.200 --> 42:06.740] [SPEAKER_10]: It's not much to ask for.
[42:07.000 --> 42:08.300] [SPEAKER_10]: But think of the alternative.
[42:08.300 --> 42:10.540] [SPEAKER_10]: How would a radio station raise money otherwise?
[42:10.540 --> 42:11.900] [SPEAKER_10]: They do it through advertising.
[42:12.140 --> 42:17.820] [SPEAKER_10]: They do it through basically selling time and not having conversations like this.
[42:17.940 --> 42:20.980] [SPEAKER_10]: Look, we're having a very spirited conversation this hour, and it's great fun.
[42:21.180 --> 42:24.980] [SPEAKER_10]: I imagine a lot of listeners are yelling at their radio right now, and that's what it's all about.
[42:26.260 --> 42:29.700] [SPEAKER_10]: In order to keep that going, we need to keep the radio station going.
[42:29.840 --> 42:39.280] [SPEAKER_10]: It's been on the air pretty much nonstop since 1960 and completely through the donations of listeners like you and unlike you as well.
[42:39.280 --> 42:43.700] [SPEAKER_10]: So, thanks for asking, and yes, we hope we have your support.
[42:44.160 --> 42:49.440] [SPEAKER_10]: Here's a letter from Tom who wants to know if we found out about his donation.
[42:49.580 --> 42:50.200] [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, you know what?
[42:50.200 --> 42:50.680] [SPEAKER_10]: We didn't.
[42:50.960 --> 42:58.280] [SPEAKER_10]: So, we need to find out from the station how many donations we've gotten so far, because maybe we've already reached the $350 goal.
[42:58.480 --> 42:58.920] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[43:00.500 --> 43:02.700] [SPEAKER_10]: But please keep those donations coming in.
[43:03.040 --> 43:08.280] [SPEAKER_10]: 212-209-2950 or give2wbai.org.
[43:08.880 --> 43:13.440] [SPEAKER_10]: And we have to raise $350 a month, March, April, May.
[43:13.640 --> 43:16.620] [SPEAKER_10]: And if we don't do that, you might not hear us in June.
[43:17.000 --> 43:17.780] [SPEAKER_10]: Simple as that.
[43:18.200 --> 43:19.200] [SPEAKER_10]: And I understand it.
[43:19.280 --> 43:19.660] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, Rob.
[43:20.820 --> 43:25.160] [SPEAKER_09]: And on the note of that note we got, that was very sweet for you to forward us that, Tom.
[43:25.340 --> 43:33.980] [SPEAKER_09]: And we very much appreciate your donation, your support, and what you wrote to us, which Tom wrote, For years, OTH has been vital for understanding privacy and security concerns.
[43:34.180 --> 43:36.560] [SPEAKER_09]: There is nowhere else this type of free discussion is found.
[43:37.680 --> 43:40.420] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's sentiments like that that mean so much to us.
[43:40.480 --> 43:41.460] [SPEAKER_09]: And, of course, we're on the radio.
[43:41.780 --> 43:42.520] [SPEAKER_09]: We're online.
[43:42.520 --> 43:48.140] [SPEAKER_09]: We don't get a lot of direct feedback outside of that we invite in phone calls and emails and stuff.
[43:48.140 --> 43:50.980] [SPEAKER_09]: So, yes, we love hearing this sort of thing from you.
[43:51.180 --> 43:59.700] [SPEAKER_09]: And if you go to give2wbai.org and show your support, and, yes, we would love it if you would forward us your receipt as well.
[44:00.700 --> 44:02.060] [SPEAKER_09]: And, yeah, thanks.
[44:02.260 --> 44:02.560] [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you.
[44:02.700 --> 44:05.480] [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you for letting us keep doing what we're doing on this show and on this station.
[44:07.040 --> 44:14.400] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, getting back to what's been going on in the world of tech, and this is an unbelievable story.
[44:14.860 --> 44:27.680] [SPEAKER_10]: A British Columbia Supreme Court judge says a class action lawsuit can move forward over alleged privacy breaches against a company that made an app to track users' menstrual and fertility cycles.
[44:28.020 --> 44:40.440] [SPEAKER_10]: The ruling was published Friday, says the action against Flow Health Incorporated alleges the company shared users' highly personal health information with third parties, including Facebook, Google, and China.
[44:40.580 --> 44:41.440] [SPEAKER_10]: No, I'm kidding.
[44:42.000 --> 44:42.940] [SPEAKER_10]: Or am I?
[44:43.100 --> 44:56.000] [SPEAKER_10]: The ruling says the company's Flow Health and Period Tracker app is available in more than 100 countries with millions of users around the world assisting women by tracking all phases of their reproductive cycle.
[44:56.660 --> 45:09.040] [SPEAKER_10]: The decision that certifies the class action says it would cover more than 1 million users who added personal information about their menstrual cycles and other data, including their bodily functions and when and how often they had sexual intercourse.
[45:10.540 --> 45:31.580] [SPEAKER_10]: So the lawsuit alleges that Flow Health misused users' personal information for its own financial gain, claiming breach of privacy, breach of confidence, and intrusion upon seclusion, which is a phrase I don't think I've ever heard before, but boy, that sounds kind of interesting.
[45:33.180 --> 45:34.340] [SPEAKER_10]: Folks, do you have any...
[45:34.340 --> 45:34.960] [SPEAKER_10]: Gila, go ahead.
[45:35.100 --> 45:36.120] [SPEAKER_10]: Do you have some comments on this?
[45:36.460 --> 45:38.560] [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, boy, do I have feelings.
[45:41.100 --> 45:51.840] [SPEAKER_13]: As I'm reasonably willing to posit the one of us who really has skin in this particular game, um, oh my god.
[45:52.220 --> 46:03.380] [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, first of all, let's start with the fact that people who menstruate have been tracking these kinds of things since before time, and will continue to do so afterward.
[46:03.640 --> 46:10.180] [SPEAKER_13]: I will tell you there was a discussion in our home, and I said, seriously, take this off your phone.
[46:10.380 --> 46:11.980] [SPEAKER_13]: Don't put it in your calendar app.
[46:12.160 --> 46:13.700] [SPEAKER_13]: Don't put it in a third-party app.
[46:13.700 --> 46:18.960] [SPEAKER_13]: Get yourself a paper pocket calendar and a pen, and that is how you track this.
[46:19.120 --> 46:20.920] [SPEAKER_13]: This is terrifying.
[46:21.200 --> 46:36.480] [SPEAKER_13]: And the idea that more companies are going to have access to this data, and they're going to track where I happen to be in a particular, let's say, 28-day cycle, and they're going to say, oh, gosh, it's two weeks out.
[46:36.680 --> 46:38.380] [SPEAKER_13]: Here, Gila, have some ads for chocolate.
[46:40.540 --> 46:43.540] [SPEAKER_13]: No, I am livid about this.
[46:43.540 --> 46:50.700] [SPEAKER_13]: And if I lived in Canada and, frankly, had been dumb enough to use this app, I would be in that class so fast it would make your head spin.
[46:53.380 --> 46:58.840] [SPEAKER_13]: I lack words for how bad and how intrusive this whole thing is.
[46:58.860 --> 47:10.460] [SPEAKER_13]: And, again, if you are a person who is listening who is a person who menstruates or who loves a person who menstruates or knows one, get them a pocket calendar and a pen.
[47:10.460 --> 47:13.980] [SPEAKER_13]: This is data that is...
[47:13.980 --> 47:15.940] [SPEAKER_13]: We're talking about sensitive data.
[47:16.120 --> 47:17.000] [SPEAKER_13]: This is it.
[47:17.440 --> 47:22.500] [SPEAKER_13]: This is beyond sensitive.
[47:22.920 --> 47:29.520] [SPEAKER_13]: This is not something you want to run into any possible way to wind up sharing with other people.
[47:31.020 --> 47:33.960] [SPEAKER_13]: And, oh, my God, I...
[47:36.780 --> 47:38.860] [SPEAKER_13]: Clearly, I'm head up and I have a lot of feelings about this.
[47:40.200 --> 47:48.540] [SPEAKER_13]: It is the most private thing you can be thinking of in the idea of intrusion upon seclusion, which I also had never heard before, but is now my new favorite phrase.
[47:50.260 --> 47:55.520] [SPEAKER_13]: No, there are places where apps should stop.
[47:55.820 --> 48:00.440] [SPEAKER_13]: There are places beyond which privacy should be sacrosanct, and this absolutely has to be one of them.
[48:00.620 --> 48:12.140] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, you just said, I think we should record and put as a public service announcement because, yes, people need to think before they add something like this to their phone.
[48:12.880 --> 48:17.620] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, this happened in Canada, but are we sure it's not happening in our country?
[48:18.740 --> 48:19.940] [SPEAKER_13]: We know it is.
[48:20.460 --> 48:22.080] [SPEAKER_13]: There are so many.
[48:24.360 --> 48:33.900] [SPEAKER_13]: And with the trend toward reusable period product because they're better for the environment, that's great.
[48:33.960 --> 48:41.660] [SPEAKER_13]: When the day comes that you're out there buying a disk that comes with an app, do not enable that app.
[48:41.860 --> 48:44.060] [SPEAKER_13]: If it's not coming yet, it will be coming soon.
[48:44.560 --> 48:45.980] [SPEAKER_13]: And that is scary.
[48:46.600 --> 48:49.200] [SPEAKER_13]: We do not need Internet of Things period products.
[48:49.380 --> 48:49.720] [SPEAKER_13]: We just don't.
[48:50.920 --> 49:04.060] [SPEAKER_11]: I just want to add, like, the generally, like, the trend, as Gila's example points out, isn't going, like, towards less interconnectedness or capability.
[49:05.700 --> 49:19.680] [SPEAKER_11]: And it just, it, as this progresses and enhances, we have to, like, guard things more, not, like, be cavalier or say, well, it's, it's, we have to give up.
[49:19.900 --> 49:27.320] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, that's the, the point is, like, these companies could be set up now with the example of laws changing.
[49:27.320 --> 49:33.020] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't think Canada's at risk of any kind of abortion situation changing.
[49:33.260 --> 49:49.220] [SPEAKER_11]: But in the U.S., that was, I think we have covered a couple stories about apps that, that immediately gave alerts or guidance to people about, and other advocacy groups were telling people what to do, what to, to delete things.
[49:49.220 --> 49:56.080] [SPEAKER_11]: And I think that immediately happened after, um, uh, the, um, Dobbs decision came down.
[49:56.260 --> 49:58.860] [SPEAKER_11]: So, um, that's just the point.
[49:58.960 --> 50:08.620] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, okay, we, again, we can have this altruistic thing of, like, the market is what, what we plan for it to be when we do our product design life cycle.
[50:08.840 --> 50:14.300] [SPEAKER_11]: But as hackers, like, we know unintended uses are what the name of the game is.
[50:14.300 --> 50:20.160] [SPEAKER_11]: And there's a huge troll in other entities, companies, whatever, who don't want to play ball.
[50:20.280 --> 50:27.320] [SPEAKER_11]: And they will troll, in other words, play our game, but use it in ways we hadn't thought of in the design process.
[50:27.600 --> 50:33.140] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, everything we've talked about tonight, great ideas for hope talks and panels.
[50:33.800 --> 50:42.560] [SPEAKER_10]: And, um, we just sent out a major announcement today about some, some really, um, um, great updates as far as places to stay and all that.
[50:42.560 --> 50:48.680] [SPEAKER_10]: That hope is happening this July, uh, at, uh, St. John's university, July 12th to the 14th, right?
[50:49.060 --> 50:49.300] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[50:49.460 --> 50:59.840] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and, um, we're going to be talking about all kinds of technological issues and, uh, there'll be workshops, there'll be villages, there'll be all sorts of discussions and, and ideas and brainstorming and things like that.
[50:59.920 --> 51:02.800] [SPEAKER_10]: Hope.net is where you can find more information about that.
[51:03.300 --> 51:06.880] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, we are going to continue this conversation over on YouTube.
[51:07.180 --> 51:10.000] [SPEAKER_10]: You can go to the link at 2600.com.
[51:10.000 --> 51:16.520] [SPEAKER_10]: It's right there on the front page or just mosey on over to Channel2600 and, uh, find us there.
[51:16.520 --> 51:22.580] [SPEAKER_10]: You can call us, you can, um, um, listen to us banter away with, uh, more people.
[51:22.880 --> 51:24.300] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and please write to us.
[51:24.500 --> 51:27.460] [SPEAKER_10]: oth@2600.com.
[51:27.620 --> 51:30.460] [SPEAKER_10]: Hey, any, uh, Laurie Anderson fans in our, in our crowd tonight.
[51:30.920 --> 51:31.340] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[51:32.480 --> 51:34.440] [SPEAKER_10]: You like early Laurie Anderson.
[51:34.680 --> 51:36.120] [SPEAKER_10]: Then you'll be happy with this.
[51:36.560 --> 51:37.540] [SPEAKER_10]: We'll see you next week.
[51:42.860 --> 51:49.960] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm in bed one morning, trying to think of a really good reason to get up, and the phone rang, and it was Jerry, and she said, Hey, hi.
[51:50.180 --> 51:50.840] [SPEAKER_14]: How are you?
[51:51.140 --> 51:51.980] [SPEAKER_14]: What's going on?
[51:52.200 --> 51:53.060] [SPEAKER_14]: How's your work going?
[51:53.320 --> 51:53.880] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, fine.
[51:54.020 --> 51:55.960] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, just waking up, but it's fine.
[51:56.120 --> 51:56.720] [SPEAKER_14]: It's going okay.
[51:57.080 --> 51:57.620] [SPEAKER_14]: How's yours?
[51:58.120 --> 51:59.120] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, a lot of work, you know.
[51:59.240 --> 52:00.320] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm trying to make some money, too.
[52:00.440 --> 52:01.920] [SPEAKER_14]: Listen, I've got to get back to it.
[52:02.020 --> 52:03.600] [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, just thought I'd call to see how you are.
[52:03.600 --> 52:10.120] [SPEAKER_14]: I said, yeah, you know, we really should get together next week, you know, have lunch, and talk, and then she says, yeah, I'll be in touch.
[52:10.420 --> 52:10.780] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[52:11.540 --> 52:11.840] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[52:12.280 --> 52:13.000] [SPEAKER_14]: Listen, take care.
[52:13.180 --> 52:13.720] [SPEAKER_14]: Take it easy.
[52:13.980 --> 52:14.740] [SPEAKER_14]: See you soon.
[52:14.960 --> 52:15.500] [SPEAKER_14]: Bye-bye.
[52:15.980 --> 52:16.560] [SPEAKER_14]: Bye now.
[52:16.960 --> 52:22.240] [SPEAKER_14]: And I get up, and the phone rings again, and it's a man from Cleveland, and he says, Hey, hi.
[52:22.580 --> 52:23.020] [SPEAKER_14]: How are you?
[52:23.040 --> 52:26.920] [SPEAKER_14]: Listen, uh, I'm doing a performance series, and I'd like you to do something in it.
[52:27.120 --> 52:28.340] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, you can make a little money.
[52:28.460 --> 52:30.120] [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know how I feel about your work, you know.
[52:30.320 --> 52:31.540] [SPEAKER_14]: It's not really my style.
[52:31.540 --> 52:32.280] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, try it.
[52:32.380 --> 52:33.640] [SPEAKER_14]: But listen, it's just my opinion.
[52:33.800 --> 52:34.700] [SPEAKER_14]: Don't take it personally.
[52:34.860 --> 52:36.480] [SPEAKER_14]: So listen, I'll be in town next week.
[52:36.620 --> 52:38.360] [SPEAKER_14]: I've got to go now, but I'll give you a call.
[52:38.520 --> 52:39.260] [SPEAKER_14]: We'll have lunch.
[52:39.420 --> 52:40.580] [SPEAKER_14]: We can discuss a few things.
[52:40.740 --> 52:43.380] [SPEAKER_14]: I hang up, and it rings again, and I don't answer it.
[52:43.520 --> 52:44.600] [SPEAKER_14]: And I go out for a walk.
[52:44.860 --> 52:47.300] [SPEAKER_14]: I drop in at the gallery, and I say, Hey, hi.
[52:47.540 --> 52:48.220] [SPEAKER_14]: How are you?
[52:48.720 --> 52:49.080] [SPEAKER_14]: Fine.
[52:49.080 --> 52:50.280] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, how's your work going?
[52:50.560 --> 52:53.100] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, you know, it's just not like it was in the 60s.
[52:53.180 --> 52:53.860] [SPEAKER_14]: Those were the days.
[52:53.980 --> 52:55.240] [SPEAKER_14]: There's just no money around now.
[52:55.540 --> 52:58.020] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, survive, produce, stick it out.
[52:58.260 --> 53:00.400] [SPEAKER_14]: It's a jungle out there, so just keep working.
[53:01.540 --> 53:03.480] [SPEAKER_14]: He says, oh, excuse me, will you...
[53:03.480 --> 53:04.060] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, hi.
[53:04.260 --> 53:04.820] [SPEAKER_14]: How are you?
[53:05.080 --> 53:05.780] [SPEAKER_14]: How's your work?
[53:06.420 --> 53:06.740] [SPEAKER_14]: Good.
[53:06.980 --> 53:07.700] [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[53:08.120 --> 53:08.900] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, stick it out.
[53:09.120 --> 53:10.260] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, it's not the 60s, you know.
[53:10.320 --> 53:11.260] [SPEAKER_14]: Listen, I've got to go now.
[53:11.380 --> 53:12.320] [SPEAKER_14]: Lunch would be great.
[53:12.920 --> 53:13.480] [SPEAKER_14]: Next week?
[53:13.720 --> 53:14.380] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, great.
[53:14.560 --> 53:16.520] [SPEAKER_14]: Very busy now, but next week could be fine.
[53:16.680 --> 53:17.780] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, bye now.
[53:18.060 --> 53:21.140] [SPEAKER_14]: And I go to Magoo's for a bite, and I see Frank.
[53:21.280 --> 53:23.980] [SPEAKER_14]: And I go over to his table, and I say, Hey, Frank, hi.
[53:24.200 --> 53:24.820] [SPEAKER_14]: How are you?
[53:25.040 --> 53:25.840] [SPEAKER_14]: How's your work?
[53:26.400 --> 53:26.720] [SPEAKER_14]: Good.
[53:26.960 --> 53:28.160] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, yeah, mine's okay, too.
[53:28.260 --> 53:29.720] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I'm broke, you know, but working.
[53:29.940 --> 53:30.960] [SPEAKER_14]: Listen, I've got to go.
[53:30.960 --> 53:33.200] [SPEAKER_14]: Um, okay, listen, we should really get together.
[53:33.360 --> 53:34.400] [SPEAKER_14]: Why don't you drop by sometime?
[53:35.020 --> 53:35.740] [SPEAKER_14]: That had to be great.
[53:35.920 --> 53:36.800] [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, listen, take care.
[53:37.100 --> 53:37.700] [SPEAKER_14]: Take it easy.
[53:37.980 --> 53:38.620] [SPEAKER_14]: I'll see ya.
[53:38.840 --> 53:39.600] [SPEAKER_14]: I'll call ya.
[53:39.880 --> 53:40.440] [SPEAKER_14]: Bye-bye.
[53:40.960 --> 53:41.660] [SPEAKER_14]: Bye now.
[53:41.980 --> 53:48.840] [SPEAKER_14]: And I go to a party, and everyone's sitting around wearing these party hats, and it's really awkward, and no one can pick up anything to say.
[53:49.160 --> 53:51.120] [SPEAKER_14]: So we all move around fast.
[53:51.340 --> 53:52.060] [SPEAKER_14]: And it's, Hi.
[53:52.540 --> 53:53.300] [SPEAKER_14]: How are ya?
[53:53.540 --> 53:54.620] [SPEAKER_14]: Hey, listen, where have you been?
[53:54.880 --> 53:55.740] [SPEAKER_14]: Nice to see ya.
[53:55.840 --> 53:57.620] [SPEAKER_14]: Sorry I didn't make your performance last week.
[53:57.640 --> 53:59.580] [SPEAKER_14]: Listen, we should really get together next week, you know.
[53:59.580 --> 54:00.400] [SPEAKER_14]: I'll call ya.
[54:00.720 --> 54:01.440] [SPEAKER_14]: I'll see ya.
[54:01.700 --> 54:02.140] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[54:02.420 --> 54:02.980] [SPEAKER_14]: Bye-bye.
[54:03.300 --> 54:05.960] [SPEAKER_14]: And I go home, and the phone rings, and it's Alan.
[54:06.220 --> 54:07.820] [SPEAKER_14]: And he says, Hey, hi.
[54:08.140 --> 54:11.760] [SPEAKER_14]: Listen, I'm going to have a show on cable TV, and it's going to be about loneliness.
[54:12.320 --> 54:27.620] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, people in the city who, for whatever sociological, psychological, philosophical reasons, just can't seem to communicate, you know, the gap, the gap, you know, it'll be a talk show, and people will phone in, but we will say at the beginning of each program,
[54:27.960 --> 54:32.660] [SPEAKER_14]: listen, don't call in with your personal problems, because we don't want to hear them.
[54:32.660 --> 54:38.420] [SPEAKER_14]: And I'm going to sleep, and it rings again, and it's Mary, and she says, Hey, Lori.
[54:38.700 --> 54:39.640] [SPEAKER_14]: Hi, how are you?
[54:39.760 --> 54:44.420] [SPEAKER_14]: Listen, just call to say hi, and don't worry, listen, just keep working.
[54:44.660 --> 54:45.520] [SPEAKER_14]: I've got to go now.
[54:45.620 --> 54:48.840] [SPEAKER_14]: I know it's late, but we should really get together next week.
[54:48.980 --> 54:54.760] [SPEAKER_14]: And listen, Lori, if you want to talk, I'll leave my answering machine on, and just give me a ring anytime.
[55:02.040 --> 55:08.700] [SPEAKER_10]: And welcome, everybody, over on YouTube, where I seem to have made it okay.
[55:08.960 --> 55:10.980] [SPEAKER_10]: Kyle, are you here on YouTube-land?
[55:11.180 --> 55:11.780] [SPEAKER_09]: I made it.
[55:11.940 --> 55:12.460] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[55:13.220 --> 55:13.620] [SPEAKER_10]: Rob?
[55:15.160 --> 55:16.420] [SPEAKER_09]: I made it as well.
[55:16.520 --> 55:17.280] [SPEAKER_09]: We seem to be okay.
[55:17.480 --> 55:18.440] [SPEAKER_10]: And Gila, you're there?
[55:19.220 --> 55:19.540] [SPEAKER_13]: Indeed.
[55:19.920 --> 55:22.520] [SPEAKER_13]: And welcome to the 24 people who are here with us, too.
[55:22.720 --> 55:23.280] [SPEAKER_10]: And Alex.
[55:25.580 --> 55:27.800] [SPEAKER_10]: When I'm Alex, oh my God, not again.
[55:27.800 --> 55:29.620] [SPEAKER_09]: It seems we lost...
[55:29.620 --> 55:30.040] [SPEAKER_09]: There he is.
[55:30.180 --> 55:30.560] [SPEAKER_09]: There he is.
[55:30.560 --> 55:30.900] [SPEAKER_09]: There he goes.
[55:32.280 --> 55:33.320] [SPEAKER_10]: There you are, Alex.
[55:33.880 --> 55:34.940] [SPEAKER_10]: How's your connection doing?
[55:35.940 --> 55:36.720] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[55:36.800 --> 55:37.360] [SPEAKER_06]: You tell me.
[55:37.600 --> 55:38.460] [SPEAKER_06]: It's a bit spotty.
[55:38.500 --> 55:40.240] [SPEAKER_10]: It sounds fine now.
[55:41.040 --> 55:44.660] [SPEAKER_10]: Can, you know, without being too intrusive, can we ask, how are you connecting?
[55:46.420 --> 55:47.300] [SPEAKER_06]: Through Wi-Fi.
[55:48.060 --> 55:49.280] [SPEAKER_10]: Ah, okay.
[55:50.000 --> 55:51.640] [SPEAKER_10]: Wi-Fi sucks sometimes.
[55:51.640 --> 55:52.540] [SPEAKER_10]: It really does.
[55:53.080 --> 55:59.000] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, my data connection in London since I've been here has been absolutely horrendous for some reason.
[55:59.020 --> 56:04.100] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't understand what's going on, but I'll lose data, and I think it was when I was...
[56:04.100 --> 56:07.960] [SPEAKER_06]: I think the Wi-Fi connection did sometimes suck here.
[56:08.140 --> 56:17.080] [SPEAKER_06]: I would drop that, and then reverting to whatever my data connection is through the telecom companies here was pretty horrendous.
[56:18.100 --> 56:19.300] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know what happened.
[56:19.300 --> 56:20.580] [SPEAKER_06]: I went to...
[56:20.580 --> 56:32.520] [SPEAKER_06]: I was in Oxford yesterday, and from this morning, and ever since I visited Oxford, it has been pretty horrible in terms of my data connectivity.
[56:33.540 --> 56:38.240] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's sad news to hear, but there are alternatives.
[56:38.340 --> 56:39.600] [SPEAKER_10]: Like I said, it's 2024.
[56:40.880 --> 56:51.860] [SPEAKER_10]: I miss the days where we just made phone calls, you know, because we could hear each other, and especially with landlines, yeah, it costs something, but, you know, and this goes for everybody.
[56:51.860 --> 56:52.600] [SPEAKER_10]: It's not just us.
[56:52.780 --> 56:57.840] [SPEAKER_10]: It's, you know, you're watching somebody being interviewed on CNN, and, you know, it's not a good connection.
[56:57.840 --> 56:58.680] [SPEAKER_10]: It sounds terrible.
[56:59.100 --> 57:01.660] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, a newscast from the 1950s would have sounded better.
[57:02.360 --> 57:03.180] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[57:03.620 --> 57:04.060] [SPEAKER_10]: It's...
[57:04.060 --> 57:04.620] [SPEAKER_06]: Usually.
[57:04.840 --> 57:09.660] [SPEAKER_10]: Sometimes it's like we don't finish the technological upgrades that we start out.
[57:10.000 --> 57:10.660] [SPEAKER_11]: I do.
[57:11.220 --> 57:11.980] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, you do.
[57:12.860 --> 57:14.420] [SPEAKER_10]: You want to get to work on this, then?
[57:14.520 --> 57:14.680] [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[57:14.680 --> 57:15.740] [SPEAKER_10]: Because nobody else is.
[57:17.220 --> 57:17.820] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[57:18.780 --> 57:23.500] [SPEAKER_10]: Any remaining thoughts people want to get out of their systems before we move on to new material and phone calls?
[57:25.400 --> 57:27.420] [SPEAKER_13]: I just have a quick listener question.
[57:29.000 --> 57:31.480] [SPEAKER_10]: A question to a listener or a question from a listener?
[57:31.480 --> 57:33.120] [SPEAKER_10]: A question from a listener.
[57:33.360 --> 57:33.660] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, okay.
[57:34.420 --> 57:36.220] [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, we have a chat question.
[57:37.380 --> 57:42.300] [SPEAKER_13]: We are asked, and I quote, are y'all ever going to get Club-Mate back in the store?
[57:42.620 --> 57:43.640] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, good question.
[57:43.820 --> 57:44.200] [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[57:44.640 --> 57:45.600] [SPEAKER_10]: We don't...
[57:45.600 --> 57:45.920] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[57:46.200 --> 57:50.200] [SPEAKER_10]: And the reason I'm so blunt about that is because we did it.
[57:50.360 --> 57:51.720] [SPEAKER_10]: We got it into the country.
[57:51.740 --> 57:52.780] [SPEAKER_10]: We did our bit.
[57:52.980 --> 57:54.640] [SPEAKER_10]: And one day we realized, you know what?
[57:54.640 --> 57:55.660] [SPEAKER_10]: We're magazine publishers.
[57:55.660 --> 57:56.920] [SPEAKER_10]: We're not soda distributors.
[57:56.920 --> 57:59.400] [SPEAKER_10]: And we're becoming more and more soda distributors.
[57:59.960 --> 58:01.960] [SPEAKER_10]: And that's just not who we are.
[58:02.200 --> 58:03.140] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, we're good at it.
[58:03.260 --> 58:04.280] [SPEAKER_10]: We did a good job.
[58:04.280 --> 58:04.960] [SPEAKER_10]: It was fun.
[58:05.060 --> 58:06.480] [SPEAKER_10]: I learned a hell of a lot.
[58:06.680 --> 58:08.420] [SPEAKER_10]: But I don't want to do that.
[58:08.520 --> 58:09.340] [SPEAKER_11]: It's backbreaking.
[58:09.580 --> 58:14.280] [SPEAKER_11]: And we are used to it because moving a lot of paper, that's definitely more of a publisher thing.
[58:14.360 --> 58:17.840] [SPEAKER_11]: But we want to stick with paper liquids and, you know...
[58:17.840 --> 58:19.840] [SPEAKER_10]: A pallet rolled over my foot once.
[58:20.020 --> 58:21.200] [SPEAKER_10]: That was not pleasant.
[58:21.200 --> 58:22.180] [SPEAKER_11]: It's...
[58:22.180 --> 58:22.960] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[58:23.240 --> 58:29.600] [SPEAKER_11]: And it did emerge and get started in the country such that you can find it in places.
[58:29.600 --> 58:31.900] [SPEAKER_11]: We were just mentioning at the...
[58:31.900 --> 58:35.800] [SPEAKER_11]: There's a Berliner restaurant...
[58:35.800 --> 58:36.380] [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, my God.
[58:36.500 --> 58:37.160] [SPEAKER_11]: At the meetings.
[58:37.280 --> 58:39.020] [SPEAKER_10]: At the New York City 2600 meetings.
[58:39.020 --> 58:43.820] [SPEAKER_10]: You can buy a Club-Mate right there because they've gotten it into a store that's at the meeting location.
[58:43.960 --> 58:44.500] [SPEAKER_11]: That's brilliant.
[58:45.420 --> 58:48.480] [SPEAKER_11]: We don't want to get into all the, you know, the timeline of everything.
[58:48.480 --> 58:52.600] [SPEAKER_11]: But there are good people that are interested and working on it.
[58:52.760 --> 58:58.680] [SPEAKER_11]: And the long and the short of it is a lot of people really have to be into whatever drink is successful.
[59:00.240 --> 59:04.300] [SPEAKER_11]: Otherwise, you got to have a lot of money to really distribute it everywhere.
[59:04.600 --> 59:08.580] [SPEAKER_11]: And it's so saturated in general, like energy drinks in the U.S.
[59:08.660 --> 59:09.020] [SPEAKER_11]: Come on.
[59:09.140 --> 59:13.440] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, big corn syrup is well entrenched.
[59:13.440 --> 59:15.400] [SPEAKER_11]: So, I don't know.
[59:15.580 --> 59:21.080] [SPEAKER_11]: We differentiated and it is around the world, which is spectacular.
[59:21.080 --> 59:23.500] [SPEAKER_11]: You can go to so many other different places.
[59:23.700 --> 59:27.000] [SPEAKER_11]: Canada, many places we've been to.
[59:27.500 --> 59:30.880] [SPEAKER_11]: So, please seek it out.
[59:31.080 --> 59:33.360] [SPEAKER_11]: Support it if it interests you.
[59:33.500 --> 59:38.820] [SPEAKER_11]: And there will be more of it if you consume it.
[59:38.820 --> 59:42.360] [SPEAKER_11]: But it's not something that we want to be, like, responsible for.
[59:42.560 --> 59:43.140] [SPEAKER_11]: We got it started.
[59:43.240 --> 59:44.100] [SPEAKER_11]: We got people interested.
[59:44.380 --> 59:44.540] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[59:44.760 --> 59:48.940] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, I didn't really get to go into much of the updates with Hope.
[59:49.000 --> 59:55.940] [SPEAKER_10]: We have all kinds of food options that we are working out for on campus this time for the Hope Conference.
[59:56.660 --> 59:58.100] [SPEAKER_10]: And we have a bunch of them.
[59:58.340 --> 59:59.220] [SPEAKER_10]: And it's possible.
[59:59.400 --> 01:00:01.440] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, you know, this is something that I could see happening.
[01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:09.380] [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe we can get whoever is distributing Club-Mate now to send the bunch over or maybe even sell it themselves.
[01:00:10.460 --> 01:00:20.760] [SPEAKER_10]: If we can get somebody to take that on and look into the possibility of doing it without burdening us with more soda distribution, we'll be happy to, you know, open it up there.
[01:00:21.200 --> 01:00:24.580] [SPEAKER_10]: That said, though, that said, I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here.
[01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:26.660] [SPEAKER_10]: Soda is not good for you.
[01:00:26.780 --> 01:00:29.360] [SPEAKER_10]: If you drink soda all the time, it's not good for you.
[01:00:29.500 --> 01:00:30.940] [SPEAKER_10]: And there was a study recently, right?
[01:00:30.940 --> 01:00:31.400] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, okay.
[01:00:31.480 --> 01:00:32.060] [SPEAKER_10]: What was the study?
[01:00:32.440 --> 01:00:33.600] [SPEAKER_11]: Wait, which is this the...
[01:00:33.600 --> 01:00:37.780] [SPEAKER_10]: If you drink one soda a week or something or one soda a day, it's supposed to be bad for you?
[01:00:37.880 --> 01:00:38.500] [SPEAKER_10]: Y'all look it up.
[01:00:40.080 --> 01:00:40.520] [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[01:00:40.780 --> 01:00:47.900] [SPEAKER_11]: There's stuff that has been found out, I think, just generally.
[01:00:48.180 --> 01:00:54.400] [SPEAKER_11]: And water is a fantastic drink if you're at all interested in hydrating yourself.
[01:00:54.700 --> 01:00:55.380] [SPEAKER_11]: Gila, go ahead.
[01:00:55.380 --> 01:01:07.580] [SPEAKER_13]: Really quickly, as a Diet Coke fiend myself, listener, I will say that I hopped on the Club-Mate website really quickly.
[01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:15.360] [SPEAKER_13]: Um, and apparently, um, Cost Plus World Market carries it nationally.
[01:01:16.180 --> 01:01:19.480] [SPEAKER_13]: Um, you can order it from them online if you're so inclined.
[01:01:19.480 --> 01:01:28.240] [SPEAKER_13]: And seeing that you are in Detroit, I will tell you that the World Market in Ann Arbor, um, carries it.
[01:01:28.420 --> 01:01:30.940] [SPEAKER_13]: There are four World Market locations in the state of Michigan.
[01:01:31.420 --> 01:01:32.420] [SPEAKER_13]: All four carry it.
[01:01:32.420 --> 01:01:34.120] [SPEAKER_13]: Also consider ordering it online.
[01:01:34.600 --> 01:01:40.300] [SPEAKER_13]: Um, and if anybody has, yeah, again, people are saying Club-Mate booth at Hope would rule.
[01:01:40.500 --> 01:01:41.040] [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, it would.
[01:01:41.320 --> 01:01:42.980] [SPEAKER_13]: Find someone to do it, and that would be great.
[01:01:43.180 --> 01:01:47.780] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, report back to us on, um, if a lot of that is, is updated.
[01:01:47.920 --> 01:01:54.500] [SPEAKER_11]: Because we've, we've fielded inquiries, we've looked, uh, offhand ourselves and seen as much when we look around.
[01:01:54.680 --> 01:02:00.560] [SPEAKER_11]: We're, you know, we're excited when, when people try to, to, to get, get it into different retailers.
[01:02:00.560 --> 01:02:02.540] [SPEAKER_11]: I know retail itself is difficult.
[01:02:02.540 --> 01:02:14.860] [SPEAKER_11]: So, uh, we, we had done mail order for a long time and, uh, you know, it, it, it is, uh, it's interesting to know what's up date, up to date and what's working, where people are actually finding it.
[01:02:14.960 --> 01:02:19.920] [SPEAKER_11]: And as far as, uh, booth, you know, we, we still have, uh, the, uh, pallets.
[01:02:20.060 --> 01:02:21.400] [SPEAKER_11]: We have the ability to move it around.
[01:02:21.540 --> 01:02:24.560] [SPEAKER_11]: We, we even have some, uh, uh, reusable crates.
[01:02:24.580 --> 01:02:25.760] [SPEAKER_11]: We have some of those yellow crates.
[01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:26.400] [SPEAKER_11]: We have those.
[01:02:26.820 --> 01:02:30.420] [SPEAKER_10]: If, if people are interested in buying those, that would free up some space for us.
[01:02:30.420 --> 01:02:30.580] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:02:30.680 --> 01:02:32.800] [SPEAKER_11]: We actually have a lot of them.
[01:02:32.960 --> 01:02:37.480] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, I was going to bring them to some, some useful, they're useful for all kinds of things.
[01:02:37.600 --> 01:02:37.680] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[01:02:37.800 --> 01:02:44.620] [SPEAKER_11]: I think people that go to camping or like, uh, car shows, you know, uh, barbecues, uh, sporting events, like tailgate parties.
[01:02:44.760 --> 01:02:49.100] [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe you, you, you want one of these crates, but, um, yeah, we have a bunch of those.
[01:02:49.100 --> 01:03:07.020] [SPEAKER_11]: And if it was, uh, you know, we, we could bring, uh, all the, the, uh, soda related infrastructure to manage that, but we would, um, you know, we would want to find out, uh, the best retailer or distributor that, that maybe could manage it themselves instead of us.
[01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:16.560] [SPEAKER_11]: You know, they, they could have a spot like we offer, um, you know, space for any kind of vendor at the event and they could, um, be able to offer it to people there.
[01:03:16.560 --> 01:03:21.000] [SPEAKER_10]: This is something we have to make sure it's okay with the university or make sure it's okay with the other food vendors there.
[01:03:21.120 --> 01:03:23.380] [SPEAKER_10]: And maybe we just have one of the food vendors deal with it.
[01:03:23.560 --> 01:03:23.680] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:23.940] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:24.300] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[01:03:24.420 --> 01:03:36.460] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, we don't want to get too, uh, drawn into that, but, uh, if we can make it simple and easy to understand and, uh, you know, people just handle it, uh, then that's something that could, you know, it shouldn't be the main thing that gets you to a conference.
[01:03:36.480 --> 01:03:37.200] [SPEAKER_10]: So I was drinking soda.
[01:03:37.380 --> 01:03:38.340] [SPEAKER_11]: So, and it's going to be hot.
[01:03:46.560 --> 01:03:51.440] [SPEAKER_10]: Those, um, actually the updates about food have not yet gone out, but yeah, it's, it's, it's very positive.
[01:03:51.680 --> 01:04:08.500] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, it's, uh, some, one of the things that we took away from 2022 where people had to walk off campus, not too far, but, you know, across the street and, and, and a block over, uh, those places are still there obviously, but of course you, what you would like to have places nearby in the actual place where you're attending the conference.
[01:04:08.620 --> 01:04:09.720] [SPEAKER_10]: And that's what we're going to have this year.
[01:04:09.720 --> 01:04:18.880] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, but hotels, we, um, we find, we mentioned this a few weeks ago and it's been, it's been torture trying to make connections with the right people, but we finally did.
[01:04:19.120 --> 01:04:24.620] [SPEAKER_10]: And we have a really super good deal, uh, at the, um, nearby Marriott hotels.
[01:04:24.920 --> 01:04:28.560] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, these are, um, um, uh, down the block a ways.
[01:04:28.860 --> 01:04:35.840] [SPEAKER_10]: It's, uh, a couple of bus stops away, a direct route that goes directly to the, um, uh, the conference, uh, from the hotel.
[01:04:36.420 --> 01:04:42.440] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, and, um, if you go to hope.net and, and click on lodging, you'll see the rates and, and they're really good.
[01:04:42.560 --> 01:04:45.360] [SPEAKER_10]: Compare the rates to what they are normally and what other places are offering.
[01:04:45.820 --> 01:04:49.880] [SPEAKER_10]: And you'll see, wow, this is, this is a pretty good deal for the, uh, period of the conference.
[01:04:50.280 --> 01:04:56.540] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and we also have the, um, the off-campus dormitory, uh, which is, uh, even cheaper than that.
[01:04:57.160 --> 01:04:59.000] [SPEAKER_10]: And that's, that's in a different direction.
[01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:01.200] [SPEAKER_10]: That's also very easy to get back and forth from.
[01:05:01.500 --> 01:05:06.420] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and it's, you know, we, we likely will have more options coming up in the, yeah, weeks ahead.
[01:05:06.580 --> 01:05:08.400] [SPEAKER_10]: We'll announce that, but that's what we have right now.
[01:05:08.840 --> 01:05:11.000] [SPEAKER_10]: So, uh, we can't really say what about this?
[01:05:11.100 --> 01:05:11.660] [SPEAKER_10]: What about that?
[01:05:11.820 --> 01:05:14.400] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, right now, this is what we've worked out.
[01:05:14.760 --> 01:05:24.640] [SPEAKER_10]: Hotels, two hotels, uh, they're next to the Emerald Pub, which is a great dive bar and a favorite place for people to hang out and, and trade stories and, and get reacquainted and things like that.
[01:05:24.860 --> 01:05:38.180] [SPEAKER_10]: And we have the, uh, the dormitory, uh, which is just good for, um, uh, you know, if you're coming in from far away and you just want to stay in a cheap place and spend most of your time at the conference, I couldn't think of a more perfect place than that because under a hundred bucks a night,
[01:05:38.280 --> 01:05:42.120] [SPEAKER_10]: you get to put your head down someplace and, and just, uh, make your way back and forth.
[01:05:42.580 --> 01:05:43.860] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, it'll be, it'll be fun.
[01:05:43.940 --> 01:05:44.560] [SPEAKER_10]: It'll be an adventure.
[01:05:47.020 --> 01:05:47.580] [SPEAKER_10]: That's all I got.
[01:05:47.600 --> 01:05:48.880] [SPEAKER_11]: Are there any other questions there?
[01:05:49.140 --> 01:05:49.320] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:05:50.520 --> 01:05:51.800] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, we could open up.
[01:05:51.960 --> 01:05:52.780] [SPEAKER_10]: We're, we're good.
[01:05:53.020 --> 01:05:53.460] [SPEAKER_10]: Carry on.
[01:05:53.840 --> 01:05:54.220] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:05:54.500 --> 01:05:56.740] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, hope.net, that's where you get all the updates on that.
[01:05:57.040 --> 01:05:59.140] [SPEAKER_10]: And, um, you want to just open up phones?
[01:05:59.140 --> 01:05:59.700] [SPEAKER_10]: We could do that.
[01:05:59.760 --> 01:06:00.200] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm ready to go.
[01:06:00.200 --> 01:06:02.820] [SPEAKER_10]: I have other stories, but you know, uh, I'd rather hear from listeners.
[01:06:03.220 --> 01:06:03.620] [SPEAKER_10]: Sure.
[01:06:03.900 --> 01:06:04.140] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:06:04.460 --> 01:06:08.540] [SPEAKER_10]: 802-321-4225, 802-321-HACK is our telephone number.
[01:06:08.960 --> 01:06:10.640] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, feel free to call.
[01:06:10.960 --> 01:06:13.900] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, please keep in mind, there's other people that want to call as well.
[01:06:14.140 --> 01:06:18.400] [SPEAKER_10]: So, uh, you know, 45 minute phone calls don't really, uh, help many people.
[01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:26.980] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and, um, but to hear what you're up to, any, any, uh, feedback on things we've discussed, any questions, ideas, uh, experiences.
[01:06:26.980 --> 01:06:29.140] [SPEAKER_10]: This is, yeah.
[01:06:29.320 --> 01:06:30.920] [SPEAKER_10]: And, and the ringer is on, right, Kyle?
[01:06:35.200 --> 01:06:36.320] [SPEAKER_10]: Is it on or not?
[01:06:36.680 --> 01:06:38.440] [SPEAKER_11]: It wasn't on, but there were no calls.
[01:06:38.520 --> 01:06:44.200] [SPEAKER_11]: We would have heard it, uh, from a distant handset, but it's now on and it's going to be very loud when someone does call.
[01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:46.540] [SPEAKER_11]: So maybe that sweetens the deal a little.
[01:06:46.720 --> 01:06:50.080] [SPEAKER_10]: So if you want to make us jump out of our seats, uh, this is your opportunity.
[01:06:50.440 --> 01:06:52.140] [SPEAKER_10]: 802-321-4225.
[01:06:52.320 --> 01:06:54.400] [SPEAKER_10]: Does anybody have that toll-free number somebody was mentioning?
[01:06:54.700 --> 01:06:56.420] [SPEAKER_10]: I think, I think we're having a phone call.
[01:06:56.540 --> 01:06:57.860] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm picking up something.
[01:06:58.220 --> 01:06:59.160] [SPEAKER_10]: What's the toll-free number?
[01:06:59.620 --> 01:07:03.600] [SPEAKER_09]: The toll-free number is 1-833-755-2600.
[01:07:04.080 --> 01:07:04.600] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:07:04.760 --> 01:07:05.060] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:07:05.140 --> 01:07:07.320] [SPEAKER_10]: You can try calling that from overseas, but I don't think it's going to work.
[01:07:08.060 --> 01:07:09.060] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's, uh, take a phone call.
[01:07:09.140 --> 01:07:09.380] [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[01:07:09.520 --> 01:07:10.240] [SPEAKER_10]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:07:10.320 --> 01:07:10.520] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[01:07:11.560 --> 01:07:11.880] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[01:07:12.160 --> 01:07:12.600] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, yes.
[01:07:12.740 --> 01:07:14.320] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, ByteDance is...
[01:07:14.320 --> 01:07:14.960] [SPEAKER_02]: Who's this?
[01:07:15.120 --> 01:07:15.920] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, ByteDance...
[01:07:15.920 --> 01:07:16.260] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
[01:07:16.360 --> 01:07:17.240] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you got to identify.
[01:07:17.420 --> 01:07:18.080] [SPEAKER_10]: Who is this?
[01:07:20.480 --> 01:07:21.220] [SPEAKER_10]: Who's on the line?
[01:07:21.600 --> 01:07:22.220] [SPEAKER_10]: Who's calling?
[01:07:22.500 --> 01:07:23.260] [SPEAKER_10]: Who's on the line?
[01:07:24.860 --> 01:07:25.900] [SPEAKER_10]: A caller ID.
[01:07:25.900 --> 01:07:30.500] [SPEAKER_10]: This is an FCC requirement that callers identify themselves.
[01:07:30.720 --> 01:07:31.720] [SPEAKER_10]: You don't have to give me a real name.
[01:07:32.000 --> 01:07:33.160] [SPEAKER_10]: Just whatever name you're comfortable with.
[01:07:33.360 --> 01:07:34.040] [SPEAKER_10]: Something we can call you.
[01:07:34.160 --> 01:07:38.900] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, um, um, uh, uh, my name is Bernie S.
[01:07:39.220 --> 01:07:40.000] [SPEAKER_10]: No, it's not.
[01:07:40.340 --> 01:07:41.060] [SPEAKER_10]: It's not.
[01:07:41.520 --> 01:07:47.140] [SPEAKER_10]: And if you're not going to, if you're not going to take this telephone call seriously, we're going to have to terminate it.
[01:07:49.320 --> 01:07:49.680] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:07:49.980 --> 01:07:50.880] [SPEAKER_10]: Do you not like your name?
[01:07:51.200 --> 01:07:52.440] [SPEAKER_10]: Rebel, do you not like your name?
[01:07:52.920 --> 01:07:55.160] [SPEAKER_10]: Because, uh, is it wrong for us to call you Rebel?
[01:07:55.300 --> 01:07:57.700] [SPEAKER_10]: Because that's what you've been known by for almost a century now.
[01:07:59.000 --> 01:07:59.220] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:07:59.600 --> 01:07:59.960] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:08:00.120 --> 01:08:01.560] [SPEAKER_10]: Is that his self-styled name?
[01:08:01.660 --> 01:08:02.200] [SPEAKER_10]: Or was that a...
[01:08:02.200 --> 01:08:02.940] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I'm not sure.
[01:08:03.080 --> 01:08:05.380] [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe we just called him that as, as, you know, an insult.
[01:08:05.600 --> 01:08:08.780] [SPEAKER_10]: And I'd like to make sure that that's not how his name came to be.
[01:08:09.540 --> 01:08:14.680] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, if you'd like to, you know, know a little history of the Rich to Rebel name.
[01:08:14.680 --> 01:08:16.180] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I got it in college.
[01:08:16.520 --> 01:08:17.160] [SPEAKER_10]: Rich the Rebel.
[01:08:17.280 --> 01:08:17.680] [SPEAKER_10]: That's it.
[01:08:17.820 --> 01:08:18.060] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, okay.
[01:08:18.060 --> 01:08:19.160] [SPEAKER_10]: You got it in college?
[01:08:19.260 --> 01:08:20.940] [SPEAKER_10]: What did you do in college to be called a Rebel?
[01:08:21.180 --> 01:08:22.500] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, actually, no, no, no.
[01:08:22.580 --> 01:08:28.360] [SPEAKER_02]: Because I had, when I went to Texas, I got a Confederate flag, you know, because I just, you know...
[01:08:28.360 --> 01:08:29.420] [SPEAKER_02]: We don't want to hear this.
[01:08:30.760 --> 01:08:31.480] [SPEAKER_02]: We don't want...
[01:08:31.480 --> 01:08:33.320] [SPEAKER_02]: That's why they, that's what they call me.
[01:08:33.460 --> 01:08:44.660] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's, you know, there was some playing with the computers and the phones and the, you know, and like, you know, so that's, like, kind of got the handle from that, you know, just like, you know, rebellious of...
[01:08:44.680 --> 01:08:49.640] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the rebellious kid, you know, playing with the phones and the computers.
[01:08:49.960 --> 01:08:50.380] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[01:08:51.000 --> 01:08:53.440] [SPEAKER_11]: It's a sordid etymology.
[01:08:53.720 --> 01:08:55.680] [SPEAKER_10]: But aren't we all rebels in our own way?
[01:08:56.420 --> 01:08:57.720] [SPEAKER_10]: But not that kind of rebel.
[01:08:58.020 --> 01:09:00.680] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, our own unique rebels.
[01:09:02.060 --> 01:09:02.620] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:09:02.740 --> 01:09:05.100] [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway, this rebel here, what's on your mind?
[01:09:05.120 --> 01:09:06.120] [SPEAKER_10]: And let's make it fast.
[01:09:07.160 --> 01:09:07.640] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[01:09:07.860 --> 01:09:11.920] [SPEAKER_02]: I was going to go to a restaurant on Long Island that's now closed.
[01:09:11.920 --> 01:09:13.040] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know this.
[01:09:13.120 --> 01:09:13.800] [SPEAKER_02]: I looked on Google.
[01:09:13.800 --> 01:09:15.360] [SPEAKER_02]: But it still has the phone number.
[01:09:15.640 --> 01:09:16.020] [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[01:09:16.080 --> 01:09:19.920] [SPEAKER_02]: So when you call the phone number, it doesn't remember how you used to go...
[01:09:19.920 --> 01:09:23.860] [SPEAKER_02]: The number you would reach, 516, whatever, whatever, has been disconnected or whatever.
[01:09:24.100 --> 01:09:25.260] [SPEAKER_02]: Now listen to what happened.
[01:09:25.260 --> 01:09:29.400] [SPEAKER_10]: You always are calling places that are closed and expecting to get something from...
[01:09:29.400 --> 01:09:32.720] [SPEAKER_10]: Is this really how you spend your days, calling things that aren't there anymore?
[01:09:33.520 --> 01:09:37.080] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I wanted to go to this restaurant that, you know, I wanted to eat at this restaurant.
[01:09:37.240 --> 01:09:38.720] [SPEAKER_02]: But I didn't know it was closed.
[01:09:39.060 --> 01:09:40.520] [SPEAKER_02]: I was surprised it was closed.
[01:09:40.520 --> 01:09:43.800] [SPEAKER_02]: Listen, the phone number was still there on Google.
[01:09:43.940 --> 01:09:46.340] [SPEAKER_02]: So I just decided to call it just to see what would happen.
[01:09:46.520 --> 01:09:51.580] [SPEAKER_02]: And I didn't get, due to the number you have reached, whatever, whatever, has been disconnected, listen to what I get.
[01:09:51.760 --> 01:09:52.160] [SPEAKER_02]: Please hold.
[01:09:52.220 --> 01:09:53.540] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, he's going to do this.
[01:09:53.580 --> 01:09:55.700] [SPEAKER_10]: And he's not going to get what he thinks he's going to get.
[01:09:55.780 --> 01:09:57.160] [SPEAKER_10]: And he's going to say, well, what happened there?
[01:09:57.700 --> 01:09:59.060] [SPEAKER_10]: And let me try that again.
[01:09:59.060 --> 01:10:00.500] [SPEAKER_10]: I'll put you on hold and...
[01:10:00.500 --> 01:10:03.880] [SPEAKER_07]: Did I mention
[01:10:08.610 --> 01:10:11.070] [SPEAKER_10]: the long periods of silence, too, that go along with this?
[01:10:14.530 --> 01:10:17.110] [SPEAKER_10]: Why are you saying the number out loud?
[01:10:22.230 --> 01:10:24.970] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, normally, you make a phone call, it goes through right away.
[01:10:24.990 --> 01:10:28.210] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not sure what all this extra time is.
[01:10:28.370 --> 01:10:31.350] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, why does it not...
[01:10:31.350 --> 01:10:32.490] [SPEAKER_10]: You want to hold it down?
[01:10:32.490 --> 01:10:33.970] [SPEAKER_10]: Every time, Rebel, every time.
[01:10:35.170 --> 01:10:36.010] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, hold on.
[01:10:38.110 --> 01:10:40.750] [SPEAKER_10]: Everything I said that was going to happen, happened.
[01:10:42.710 --> 01:10:43.110] [SPEAKER_10]: Everything.
[01:10:44.650 --> 01:10:45.830] [SPEAKER_02]: No, you know what happens?
[01:10:46.050 --> 01:10:46.890] [SPEAKER_02]: If supervision...
[01:10:46.890 --> 01:10:52.790] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't do a three-way call on my cell phone, because if supervision doesn't click in, it doesn't let you do three-ways.
[01:10:52.990 --> 01:10:55.330] [SPEAKER_10]: This is something we've known since the 1980s.
[01:10:55.770 --> 01:10:58.410] [SPEAKER_02]: I know that, but I'm just saying...
[01:10:58.410 --> 01:11:01.050] [SPEAKER_02]: All right, I'll just demonstrate it verbally.
[01:11:01.370 --> 01:11:03.130] [SPEAKER_02]: It goes, gigoo, gigoo, gigoo, gigoo.
[01:11:03.370 --> 01:11:03.770] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello.
[01:11:03.970 --> 01:11:05.930] [SPEAKER_02]: The number you have reached...
[01:11:07.070 --> 01:11:08.370] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I think it says...
[01:11:08.370 --> 01:11:09.890] [SPEAKER_02]: Giggle, giggle, giggle, giggle.
[01:11:10.210 --> 01:11:11.790] [SPEAKER_02]: It does not say that.
[01:11:12.850 --> 01:11:13.750] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what...
[01:11:13.750 --> 01:11:14.290] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what?
[01:11:14.450 --> 01:11:16.830] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I could have recorded it or something.
[01:11:17.190 --> 01:11:17.630] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[01:11:17.790 --> 01:11:18.230] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe do that.
[01:11:18.430 --> 01:11:18.830] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe...
[01:11:18.830 --> 01:11:19.230] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[01:11:19.450 --> 01:11:20.050] [SPEAKER_02]: Something like...
[01:11:20.050 --> 01:11:29.310] [SPEAKER_02]: No, it says something like, we can help you find a business, another business in the area, since the business you're looking for or your calling is not available.
[01:11:30.150 --> 01:11:34.610] [SPEAKER_02]: Please hold on or whatever, and then it connects you to your directory assistant, automated directory assistant.
[01:11:34.850 --> 01:11:35.790] [SPEAKER_02]: I said, what video?
[01:11:35.970 --> 01:11:37.030] [SPEAKER_02]: Something to that effect.
[01:11:38.090 --> 01:11:39.810] [SPEAKER_10]: And it makes sense when you think about it.
[01:11:39.810 --> 01:11:41.190] [SPEAKER_10]: Something goes out of business.
[01:11:41.190 --> 01:11:42.270] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I'm burning up.
[01:11:42.410 --> 01:11:44.890] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going through a more quiet area.
[01:11:45.530 --> 01:11:45.730] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[01:11:46.050 --> 01:11:46.330] [SPEAKER_02]: There.
[01:11:46.570 --> 01:11:47.350] [SPEAKER_02]: The cantaloupe.
[01:11:47.890 --> 01:11:48.230] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:11:48.510 --> 01:11:51.490] [SPEAKER_02]: So, the business is that you don't...
[01:11:51.490 --> 01:11:54.790] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's not just the number you have reached has been disconnected.
[01:11:55.150 --> 01:11:55.890] [SPEAKER_02]: It says...
[01:11:55.890 --> 01:11:56.750] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like an advertisement.
[01:11:57.510 --> 01:11:57.950] [SPEAKER_10]: Exactly.
[01:11:57.950 --> 01:11:58.250] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:11:58.310 --> 01:11:59.370] [SPEAKER_10]: Something goes out of business.
[01:11:59.530 --> 01:12:02.370] [SPEAKER_10]: You obviously are still interested in whatever you're calling them about.
[01:12:02.570 --> 01:12:04.850] [SPEAKER_10]: So, since they're no longer there, maybe this can help you.
[01:12:05.130 --> 01:12:13.650] [SPEAKER_10]: Sounds like, you know, a call back to the old days where operators would basically, you know, pass you along to the undertaker that happened to be married to them.
[01:12:13.770 --> 01:12:14.030] [SPEAKER_10]: No, no.
[01:12:14.450 --> 01:12:16.290] [SPEAKER_10]: And that's how the struggle got started.
[01:12:17.350 --> 01:12:20.590] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it would be to be a recording thing, an intercept recording.
[01:12:20.830 --> 01:12:23.150] [SPEAKER_02]: Then it'll be over, which has whatever has been disconnected.
[01:12:23.410 --> 01:12:23.590] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[01:12:24.010 --> 01:12:24.450] [SPEAKER_02]: You know.
[01:12:24.630 --> 01:12:24.750] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[01:12:24.750 --> 01:12:25.490] [SPEAKER_02]: Now it's different.
[01:12:25.730 --> 01:12:26.250] [SPEAKER_02]: Now it's different.
[01:12:26.250 --> 01:12:27.170] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the number you have...
[01:12:27.170 --> 01:12:34.090] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's an advertiser saying, you know, we can help you find another business in the area because the business you've called is not available.
[01:12:34.290 --> 01:12:39.850] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's the business of doing this because I've called a couple of numbers like this that have been disconnected.
[01:12:40.150 --> 01:12:41.190] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I think it's just business.
[01:12:41.870 --> 01:12:45.330] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, I think you should go to that restaurant and just see what happens.
[01:12:45.990 --> 01:12:46.690] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what?
[01:12:46.810 --> 01:12:47.810] [SPEAKER_02]: I just thought of something.
[01:12:48.010 --> 01:12:48.350] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, chances.
[01:12:48.350 --> 01:12:49.070] [SPEAKER_02]: The number...
[01:12:49.670 --> 01:12:54.370] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, when my aunt moved, she disconnected her number and we are at the recording.
[01:12:54.730 --> 01:12:56.230] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, dude, the number you have reached.
[01:12:56.290 --> 01:12:58.690] [SPEAKER_10]: You notice a lot of people move and don't tell you their new number?
[01:13:00.410 --> 01:13:00.770] [SPEAKER_10]: Hmm.
[01:13:00.990 --> 01:13:01.570] [SPEAKER_10]: That does happen.
[01:13:01.790 --> 01:13:02.550] [SPEAKER_10]: That does happen.
[01:13:03.390 --> 01:13:06.270] [SPEAKER_10]: Rebel, we're going to have to move on so make one more point and make it quick.
[01:13:06.710 --> 01:13:09.290] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, you know, ByteDance is now owned by a Russian company.
[01:13:10.510 --> 01:13:10.910] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:13:11.830 --> 01:13:13.130] [SPEAKER_10]: So TikTok is Russian.
[01:13:13.410 --> 01:13:15.410] [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe you want to call Congress and tell them that?
[01:13:17.070 --> 01:13:19.390] [SPEAKER_10]: Gila, you have something to add to this discourse?
[01:13:19.850 --> 01:13:20.650] [SPEAKER_13]: I do.
[01:13:20.890 --> 01:13:26.530] [SPEAKER_13]: Well, actually, I, weirdly enough, have a listener question for Rebel, so feel compelled to pass it along.
[01:13:26.690 --> 01:13:27.910] [SPEAKER_10]: All right, Rebel, you got a question coming.
[01:13:28.050 --> 01:13:28.590] [SPEAKER_10]: Don't blow it.
[01:13:28.590 --> 01:13:29.390] [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[01:13:30.030 --> 01:13:38.070] [SPEAKER_13]: Rebel, someone, we are asked, how does one subscribe to your YouTube channel in case someone just wants Unlimited Rebel?
[01:13:38.450 --> 01:13:40.770] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, go to Richard Conti.
[01:13:40.970 --> 01:13:42.150] [SPEAKER_02]: Wait a minute, not Richard Conti.
[01:13:42.250 --> 01:13:43.790] [SPEAKER_02]: Wait a minute, what is the YouTube channel?
[01:13:44.230 --> 01:13:44.770] [SPEAKER_02]: Hold on.
[01:13:46.110 --> 01:13:47.050] [SPEAKER_02]: Not hold on.
[01:13:47.930 --> 01:13:48.590] [SPEAKER_02]: Not hold on.
[01:13:50.010 --> 01:13:50.490] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[01:13:50.850 --> 01:13:51.110] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[01:13:52.430 --> 01:13:54.150] [SPEAKER_02]: How did you subscribe to my YouTube channel?
[01:13:54.150 --> 01:13:54.710] [SPEAKER_02]: I look forward to this.
[01:13:55.710 --> 01:13:58.030] [SPEAKER_13]: Rebel, is it the account you're signed in on now?
[01:14:00.490 --> 01:14:02.630] [SPEAKER_02]: The one that I'm signed in on now.
[01:14:03.110 --> 01:14:05.990] [SPEAKER_10]: Because we see the name that you use in the chat.
[01:14:06.430 --> 01:14:07.810] [SPEAKER_10]: So that is...
[01:14:07.810 --> 01:14:09.230] [SPEAKER_02]: that's the one that, yeah, you can go to that.
[01:14:09.350 --> 01:14:13.410] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's my channel on Google or YouTube where I get to contact me on now.
[01:14:13.530 --> 01:14:14.830] [SPEAKER_10]: Gila, what is that name?
[01:14:14.890 --> 01:14:18.950] [SPEAKER_02]: If you click on that name and go to that YouTube channel, that's my YouTube channel.
[01:14:18.950 --> 01:14:21.010] [SPEAKER_10]: I can't believe you could do this for you, but...
[01:14:21.430 --> 01:14:26.430] [SPEAKER_13]: Unfortunately, listeners, I can do that because I have fancy mod powers.
[01:14:26.830 --> 01:14:32.430] [SPEAKER_13]: So, Rebel, is it okay if I go to your channel and drop that in the chat?
[01:14:32.430 --> 01:14:36.090] [SPEAKER_13]: So if people want just unedited Rebel into their veins, they can do that?
[01:14:36.210 --> 01:14:36.630] [SPEAKER_13]: Is that all right?
[01:14:37.930 --> 01:14:38.270] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[01:14:39.490 --> 01:14:42.830] [SPEAKER_02]: Bob, before we do that, why don't you do that first and see what's on my check?
[01:14:42.910 --> 01:14:45.690] [SPEAKER_02]: Because I only have one video there that I recorded.
[01:14:45.690 --> 01:14:48.830] [SPEAKER_10]: Do you want us to check in on your channel now on YouTube?
[01:14:49.050 --> 01:14:51.530] [SPEAKER_10]: You do, in fact, have only one video there.
[01:14:51.730 --> 01:14:53.710] [SPEAKER_10]: Do you want us to play the video and make sure it's okay?
[01:14:54.090 --> 01:14:54.450] [SPEAKER_13]: The one from Grand Central.
[01:14:54.710 --> 01:14:56.530] [SPEAKER_13]: The one from Grand Central, yes.
[01:14:57.130 --> 01:14:59.690] [SPEAKER_13]: Six minutes from Grand Central five years ago.
[01:14:59.810 --> 01:14:59.930] [SPEAKER_13]: Yep.
[01:15:00.090 --> 01:15:01.210] [SPEAKER_13]: Six years ago, excuse me.
[01:15:02.230 --> 01:15:02.730] [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[01:15:02.790 --> 01:15:03.570] [SPEAKER_13]: Is that okay to share?
[01:15:04.790 --> 01:15:05.950] [SPEAKER_02]: That's okay to share.
[01:15:06.030 --> 01:15:06.610] [SPEAKER_02]: Careful now.
[01:15:07.090 --> 01:15:08.410] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't want to cause a panic.
[01:15:09.890 --> 01:15:15.490] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, they have just people just, you know, whatever videos they want to see.
[01:15:15.650 --> 01:15:16.670] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, what, you know.
[01:15:16.850 --> 01:15:19.750] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they only have one there, so not much of a choice.
[01:15:19.890 --> 01:15:27.230] [SPEAKER_10]: But now, is there a reason we can't say his channel name over the, whatever it is we're talking on YouTube?
[01:15:27.670 --> 01:15:32.450] [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, we surely can, but because the link is currently,
[01:15:37.470 --> 01:15:38.050] [SPEAKER_13]: hold on.
[01:15:39.210 --> 01:15:42.630] [SPEAKER_13]: If it were Richard whatever, I would happily say that.
[01:15:43.450 --> 01:15:47.370] [SPEAKER_13]: But currently, it is, hold on.
[01:15:47.790 --> 01:15:48.210] [SPEAKER_13]: Sorry.
[01:15:48.430 --> 01:15:48.830] [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, my God.
[01:15:48.890 --> 01:15:49.150] [SPEAKER_13]: It is?
[01:15:49.290 --> 01:15:49.370] [SPEAKER_13]: What?
[01:15:50.350 --> 01:15:51.190] [SPEAKER_13]: This spreads.
[01:15:51.370 --> 01:15:51.930] [SPEAKER_13]: This is catching.
[01:15:52.150 --> 01:15:52.730] [SPEAKER_13]: Hold on.
[01:15:52.930 --> 01:15:53.410] [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, my God.
[01:15:53.550 --> 01:15:54.330] [SPEAKER_13]: Rebel, what have you done?
[01:15:54.690 --> 01:16:02.810] [SPEAKER_13]: Currently, the channel is UC underscore zero zero L eight L T T nine S R Y two T E M E V O P V W.
[01:16:03.030 --> 01:16:05.050] [SPEAKER_13]: So it'll just be easier if people click the link I put in the chat.
[01:16:05.310 --> 01:16:06.210] [SPEAKER_13]: What the hell are you thinking, Rebel?
[01:16:06.450 --> 01:16:07.710] [SPEAKER_13]: Why would you have a name like that?
[01:16:09.390 --> 01:16:09.990] [SPEAKER_02]: Wait a minute.
[01:16:10.110 --> 01:16:10.690] [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, what?
[01:16:11.010 --> 01:16:11.590] [SPEAKER_02]: He wants.
[01:16:13.030 --> 01:16:13.690] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, my God.
[01:16:13.750 --> 01:16:15.070] [SPEAKER_10]: Do you seriously want me to repeat that again?
[01:16:15.310 --> 01:16:16.030] [SPEAKER_10]: Don't repeat that.
[01:16:16.230 --> 01:16:18.010] [SPEAKER_10]: You can click on your own name, can't you?
[01:16:18.670 --> 01:16:19.250] [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, no, no.
[01:16:19.370 --> 01:16:22.590] [SPEAKER_02]: Did you say P A S Q U I N U C C C C I?
[01:16:23.950 --> 01:16:31.650] [SPEAKER_13]: No, because right now the link for your channel is not personalized because it's brand new and you don't have enough followers.
[01:16:33.350 --> 01:16:35.970] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, did you enjoy saying that, Gila?
[01:16:37.490 --> 01:16:37.930] [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[01:16:38.090 --> 01:16:40.510] [SPEAKER_13]: Can't you tell by my face how exciting that was?
[01:16:40.910 --> 01:16:42.630] [SPEAKER_13]: See, this doesn't have enough followers.
[01:16:42.630 --> 01:16:44.190] [SPEAKER_13]: People get to see us on video or each other.
[01:16:44.450 --> 01:16:45.730] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I just put it up.
[01:16:45.910 --> 01:16:46.630] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I just know.
[01:16:46.630 --> 01:16:47.230] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I did?
[01:16:47.370 --> 01:17:04.750] [SPEAKER_02]: I had a YouTube channel but I was doing something on another site like on another site and I was getting ads and spam in my Gmail so I changed that Gmail account to this new Gmail account so that's why I changed my Google account.
[01:17:04.990 --> 01:17:06.370] [SPEAKER_10]: Ads and spam on Gmail.
[01:17:06.550 --> 01:17:06.990] [SPEAKER_10]: Imagine that.
[01:17:07.210 --> 01:17:18.370] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, you know, by the way, just to step out of this for a second, we sent an announcement out today and it appears to have met with Gmail's approval.
[01:17:18.550 --> 01:17:24.950] [SPEAKER_10]: We have not been relegated to spam from what I've heard and that is definitely a celebration all around.
[01:17:25.650 --> 01:17:26.210] [SPEAKER_10]: I got it.
[01:17:26.670 --> 01:17:29.190] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to have to ask you to go to a more quiet place.
[01:17:29.950 --> 01:17:31.950] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what he's talking about now.
[01:17:32.090 --> 01:17:32.710] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry.
[01:17:33.170 --> 01:17:40.910] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, Rebel, out of our interest in your well-being, we're going to disconnect now and open up the phone lines to others.
[01:17:41.070 --> 01:17:41.650] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm so sorry.
[01:17:42.130 --> 01:17:47.730] [SPEAKER_10]: Please be careful and yes, try to avoid going to abandoned places that no longer exist.
[01:17:48.590 --> 01:17:49.770] [SPEAKER_10]: We will talk to you again.
[01:17:50.030 --> 01:17:50.310] [SPEAKER_10]: Good night.
[01:17:51.470 --> 01:17:57.350] [SPEAKER_10]: And our phone number, 802-321-4225.
[01:17:57.370 --> 01:18:00.450] [SPEAKER_10]: And that was just about everything that I could have expected.
[01:18:01.690 --> 01:18:03.250] [SPEAKER_10]: Alex, how are you doing out there?
[01:18:05.410 --> 01:18:06.470] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm hanging in there.
[01:18:06.710 --> 01:18:08.810] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm, you know, bouncing in and out.
[01:18:08.990 --> 01:18:10.730] [SPEAKER_06]: My connection isn't great, but...
[01:18:10.730 --> 01:18:11.710] [SPEAKER_10]: You sound fine now.
[01:18:13.430 --> 01:18:14.210] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[01:18:14.930 --> 01:18:17.110] [SPEAKER_06]: It's up and down, but I'm doing all right.
[01:18:17.210 --> 01:18:17.750] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm hanging in.
[01:18:17.750 --> 01:18:18.330] [SPEAKER_06]: It's late here.
[01:18:18.370 --> 01:18:20.790] [SPEAKER_10]: When you say something important, I think that's when it breaks up.
[01:18:21.390 --> 01:18:22.530] [SPEAKER_06]: It generally does.
[01:18:22.650 --> 01:18:23.070] [SPEAKER_06]: That's right.
[01:18:23.190 --> 01:18:23.450] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:18:23.810 --> 01:18:25.710] [SPEAKER_06]: And by the way, this is a...
[01:18:25.710 --> 01:18:28.850] [SPEAKER_06]: So it's a little after midnight here in London.
[01:18:31.230 --> 01:18:31.710] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:18:32.750 --> 01:18:35.130] [SPEAKER_10]: It's a little after midnight in London is what we got.
[01:18:35.670 --> 01:18:36.650] [SPEAKER_10]: Was there more to that?
[01:18:36.830 --> 01:18:38.070] [SPEAKER_06]: Unbelievable that this happened again.
[01:18:38.270 --> 01:18:38.810] [SPEAKER_06]: It was so annoying.
[01:18:38.990 --> 01:18:47.510] [SPEAKER_06]: But it's one of these weird times when the UK is only four hours ahead of the United States, right?
[01:18:47.710 --> 01:18:51.050] [SPEAKER_10]: Because we went to daylight savings time and you guys did not.
[01:18:52.410 --> 01:18:53.130] [SPEAKER_06]: That's right.
[01:18:53.270 --> 01:18:53.590] [SPEAKER_06]: That's right.
[01:18:53.630 --> 01:18:54.250] [SPEAKER_06]: We haven't done it.
[01:18:54.390 --> 01:18:57.450] [SPEAKER_06]: We don't do it here until March 30th, I believe.
[01:18:57.750 --> 01:18:58.290] [SPEAKER_06]: Something like that.
[01:18:58.290 --> 01:18:59.210] [SPEAKER_10]: And you can blame George W.
[01:18:59.210 --> 01:19:00.690] [SPEAKER_10]: Bush for that because George W.
[01:19:00.830 --> 01:19:04.410] [SPEAKER_10]: Bush extended daylight savings time months or weeks or whatever.
[01:19:05.530 --> 01:19:06.010] [SPEAKER_10]: That's...
[01:19:06.010 --> 01:19:06.250] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:19:06.670 --> 01:19:07.530] [SPEAKER_10]: He's not for that.
[01:19:07.610 --> 01:19:10.570] [SPEAKER_06]: One of the many things for which he can be blamed.
[01:19:10.770 --> 01:19:10.890] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:19:11.030 --> 01:19:11.390] [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.
[01:19:12.270 --> 01:19:13.470] [SPEAKER_10]: Definitely not number one.
[01:19:13.810 --> 01:19:19.790] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, so from number 802-321-4225, please, people, you see what happens if you don't dial fast enough.
[01:19:20.490 --> 01:19:25.970] [SPEAKER_10]: So call us and we can have a nice conversation about something that...
[01:19:26.410 --> 01:19:27.090] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, go ahead.
[01:19:27.350 --> 01:19:31.410] [SPEAKER_13]: We did have a couple of listener suggestions that we put a timer on Rebel.
[01:19:32.430 --> 01:19:33.390] [SPEAKER_13]: How do you do that?
[01:19:33.550 --> 01:19:34.110] [SPEAKER_10]: How do you do that?
[01:19:34.710 --> 01:19:39.190] [SPEAKER_13]: When he calls, start a timer for two minutes and when it's done, that's the end.
[01:19:39.590 --> 01:19:43.590] [SPEAKER_10]: You ever walk four cats down a street in the city at the same time on leashes?
[01:19:43.590 --> 01:19:47.210] [SPEAKER_10]: it would be like that and nobody wins.
[01:19:50.030 --> 01:19:50.470] [SPEAKER_10]: Nobody.
[01:19:50.530 --> 01:19:51.290] [SPEAKER_11]: We already...
[01:19:51.290 --> 01:19:52.690] [SPEAKER_11]: We have like an established rapport.
[01:19:53.610 --> 01:19:54.830] [SPEAKER_10]: Is that what that is?
[01:19:54.950 --> 01:19:55.270] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:19:55.790 --> 01:19:56.930] [SPEAKER_11]: I just feel like...
[01:19:56.930 --> 01:20:00.350] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, even though you said like one last point, it went on for like...
[01:20:00.350 --> 01:20:00.830] [SPEAKER_11]: It just...
[01:20:00.830 --> 01:20:01.430] [SPEAKER_11]: fragments.
[01:20:02.030 --> 01:20:02.470] [SPEAKER_11]: Every...
[01:20:02.470 --> 01:20:05.650] [SPEAKER_11]: every retort fragments to something else.
[01:20:05.750 --> 01:20:06.410] [SPEAKER_10]: I knew what it was.
[01:20:06.410 --> 01:20:06.890] [SPEAKER_11]: Or...
[01:20:06.890 --> 01:20:08.630] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sorry, like fractals?
[01:20:08.950 --> 01:20:09.290] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:20:09.550 --> 01:20:11.210] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know how to describe it.
[01:20:12.030 --> 01:20:13.670] [SPEAKER_10]: 802-321-4225.
[01:20:13.950 --> 01:20:14.250] [SPEAKER_10]: We can...
[01:20:14.250 --> 01:20:16.650] [SPEAKER_10]: We can have an early night, folks, if nobody wants to call in.
[01:20:16.710 --> 01:20:17.150] [SPEAKER_10]: That's for sure.
[01:20:17.270 --> 01:20:17.670] [SPEAKER_10]: We can...
[01:20:17.670 --> 01:20:18.110] [SPEAKER_10]: We can do that.
[01:20:18.210 --> 01:20:21.630] [SPEAKER_10]: Country code 1-802-321-4225.
[01:20:23.190 --> 01:20:23.630] [SPEAKER_10]: And...
[01:20:24.190 --> 01:20:24.630] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:20:24.990 --> 01:20:27.110] [SPEAKER_10]: No, Alex, you're...
[01:20:27.110 --> 01:20:28.350] [SPEAKER_10]: You're gone face-wise.
[01:20:28.630 --> 01:20:29.470] [SPEAKER_10]: Video, that is.
[01:20:29.550 --> 01:20:30.770] [SPEAKER_10]: I can't string a sentence together.
[01:20:31.150 --> 01:20:34.450] [SPEAKER_10]: So maybe that makes your Wi-Fi better when you don't have video.
[01:20:36.650 --> 01:20:38.470] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, quite possibly, right?
[01:20:38.590 --> 01:20:44.370] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, the idea being that I would have more bandwidth for my audio if my video wasn't on.
[01:20:44.610 --> 01:20:47.810] [SPEAKER_10]: Of course, you turned on the video to say that, so I'm not sure.
[01:20:48.050 --> 01:20:48.510] [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe, yeah.
[01:20:49.030 --> 01:20:49.390] [SPEAKER_06]: I...
[01:20:49.390 --> 01:20:50.270] [SPEAKER_06]: I did.
[01:20:50.450 --> 01:20:50.890] [SPEAKER_06]: I did.
[01:20:51.070 --> 01:20:51.350] [SPEAKER_06]: So...
[01:20:51.350 --> 01:20:51.790] [SPEAKER_06]: So we'll see.
[01:20:51.890 --> 01:20:52.890] [SPEAKER_06]: But, hey, we have a call.
[01:20:53.030 --> 01:20:53.770] [SPEAKER_06]: We do have a call.
[01:20:53.910 --> 01:20:54.890] [SPEAKER_10]: We do have a call.
[01:20:55.150 --> 01:20:56.290] [SPEAKER_10]: And I believe that call is connected.
[01:20:56.290 --> 01:20:57.450] [SPEAKER_10]: And we're going to say good evening.
[01:20:57.650 --> 01:20:59.210] [SPEAKER_10]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:20:59.290 --> 01:20:59.530] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[01:21:00.690 --> 01:21:01.290] [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening.
[01:21:01.590 --> 01:21:03.730] [SPEAKER_04]: I just got a question for Hope.
[01:21:03.950 --> 01:21:07.710] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you have to have attended before to volunteer?
[01:21:08.090 --> 01:21:08.630] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, no.
[01:21:08.890 --> 01:21:11.330] [SPEAKER_04]: I would be willing to, you know, even pay.
[01:21:11.490 --> 01:21:16.170] [SPEAKER_04]: I just feel like volunteering might be a good way to, I don't know, acquaint myself with the whole convention.
[01:21:16.430 --> 01:21:26.990] [SPEAKER_10]: I'll tell you, volunteering is the best way to acquaint yourself with the entire hacker community because you just wind up seeing all kinds of cool things, meeting people, helping people.
[01:21:28.550 --> 01:21:33.510] [SPEAKER_10]: it's what a lot of people do when they go to hacker conferences is just dive in and become a part of it.
[01:21:33.670 --> 01:21:38.730] [SPEAKER_04]: I've gone to a lot of conferences but I've never been to Hope but I've always wanted to go to Hope.
[01:21:38.890 --> 01:21:39.070] [SPEAKER_10]: Cool.
[01:21:39.190 --> 01:21:40.210] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, we look forward to having you.
[01:21:40.390 --> 01:21:43.630] [SPEAKER_04]: I've actually worked a few before but I don't know.
[01:21:44.450 --> 01:21:50.350] [SPEAKER_04]: I've always been interested in Hope and just wanted to see if you needed to have attended before to be able to pitch in.
[01:21:50.570 --> 01:21:56.610] [SPEAKER_10]: No, you know, basically what you should do is email volunteers at Hope.net to tell us what you're interested in doing.
[01:21:57.170 --> 01:22:00.230] [SPEAKER_10]: Somebody will get back to you and we'll coordinate things.
[01:22:01.270 --> 01:22:07.570] [SPEAKER_04]: I know I'd seen Andrew post about rodents a couple years ago.
[01:22:07.870 --> 01:22:09.050] [SPEAKER_04]: Is he still over that?
[01:22:10.530 --> 01:22:11.010] [SPEAKER_10]: Probably.
[01:22:11.250 --> 01:22:15.990] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I don't know for sure who is involved in what at this point but I would not be surprised.
[01:22:17.850 --> 01:22:19.710] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, what was that email address again?
[01:22:19.890 --> 01:22:33.270] [SPEAKER_10]: It's volunteers at Hope.net and we can just go to the Hope.net webpage and you'll see a section that probably describes it better than I'm describing it now but it's fairly easy to get in touch with us.
[01:22:34.490 --> 01:22:35.210] [SPEAKER_04]: All right, cool.
[01:22:35.450 --> 01:22:37.330] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I will probably be shooting you all an email.
[01:22:37.670 --> 01:22:37.930] [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks, Dan.
[01:22:38.150 --> 01:22:40.650] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, thanks for your interest and we look forward to seeing you in July.
[01:22:42.010 --> 01:22:42.610] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, for sure.
[01:22:42.750 --> 01:22:43.030] [SPEAKER_10]: Take care.
[01:22:43.490 --> 01:22:43.570] Bye.
[01:22:44.490 --> 01:22:45.150] [SPEAKER_10]: Gila, go ahead.
[01:22:45.650 --> 01:22:47.910] [SPEAKER_13]: Speaking of Hope, we have a listener question.
[01:22:48.550 --> 01:22:51.730] [SPEAKER_13]: People who bought tickets online, are we getting them via mail or email?
[01:22:52.370 --> 01:23:02.350] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, you are getting them via email and it will be a bit more down the road when you when you actually get them and let me point out there are two different kinds of tickets.
[01:23:02.570 --> 01:23:05.030] [SPEAKER_10]: There are the in-person tickets and there are the virtual tickets.
[01:23:05.210 --> 01:23:19.110] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, virtual tickets are quite important because that's a way of supporting the conference even if you can't make it to the conference physically and getting those attendees registered enables us to invest more into the conference so we can do more.
[01:23:19.670 --> 01:23:25.570] [SPEAKER_10]: and everything is just put right back into it and that allows us to have a successful event.
[01:23:25.910 --> 01:23:28.910] [SPEAKER_10]: So, please check out the website at hope.net.
[01:23:29.270 --> 01:23:35.630] [SPEAKER_10]: All the information on tickets is there, all the links, and, yeah, if you're interested in participating in any way.
[01:23:36.130 --> 01:23:37.090] [SPEAKER_10]: Rob, did you have something?
[01:23:38.110 --> 01:23:46.810] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, just regarding the caller who was asking about volunteering, I can say that I've been volunteering since the very first Hope I went to in 2000.
[01:23:48.050 --> 01:23:51.730] [SPEAKER_09]: And I've been put to work at the conference every time since in one way or another.
[01:23:51.930 --> 01:23:54.810] [SPEAKER_09]: So, yeah, it's a great way to get involved, a great way to meet people.
[01:23:54.950 --> 01:23:57.050] [SPEAKER_09]: I've made some great friends over the years just from that.
[01:23:58.050 --> 01:24:03.750] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, when we travel to other conferences, we always try to get involved however we can to help out.
[01:24:04.010 --> 01:24:07.070] [SPEAKER_10]: Look, hope would not be possible without volunteer effort.
[01:24:07.230 --> 01:24:08.210] [SPEAKER_10]: That's just a fact.
[01:24:08.390 --> 01:24:15.430] [SPEAKER_10]: And when we were doing it in Midtown Manhattan, it was, you know, defying all the odds to even have it there in the first place.
[01:24:15.430 --> 01:24:19.270] [SPEAKER_10]: But the fact that we are able to do this is our 15th conference now.
[01:24:20.290 --> 01:24:21.950] [SPEAKER_10]: It's because of volunteers.
[01:24:22.210 --> 01:24:27.850] [SPEAKER_10]: It's because, you know, we don't go the corporate route because that's how you spend $1,000 for attendees per conference.
[01:24:27.990 --> 01:24:30.250] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, they're everywhere.
[01:24:30.510 --> 01:24:34.010] [SPEAKER_10]: These big corporate security conferences cost a fortune.
[01:24:34.090 --> 01:24:37.350] [SPEAKER_10]: And they're not nearly as interesting as what we do at Hope.
[01:24:37.810 --> 01:24:42.650] [SPEAKER_10]: So, we get there by people volunteering on every level.
[01:24:42.890 --> 01:24:44.870] [SPEAKER_10]: And nobody gets paid.
[01:24:45.090 --> 01:24:45.410] [SPEAKER_10]: Nobody gets paid.
[01:24:45.410 --> 01:24:55.010] [SPEAKER_10]: It's paid to do Hope except for the vendors, the people who, you know, sell us equipment or rent us equipment or the venue or things like that.
[01:24:55.110 --> 01:24:56.330] [SPEAKER_10]: But nobody organizing it.
[01:24:57.310 --> 01:24:59.070] [SPEAKER_10]: It all goes right back into the conference.
[01:24:59.210 --> 01:25:07.850] [SPEAKER_11]: And we understand it's really kind of counterintuitive to how most people are gainfully employed or how they operate in this system, especially in the U.S.
[01:25:08.450 --> 01:25:11.070] [SPEAKER_11]: we tend not to move unless incentivized.
[01:25:11.330 --> 01:25:30.190] [SPEAKER_11]: And we really hope that the camaraderie, the proximity to people that you're meeting for the first time that are also working on the event, we hope that that is incentive enough to be a part of the team to make something really special happen for other hackers who may also be attending for the first time.
[01:25:30.190 --> 01:25:41.910] [SPEAKER_11]: and they'll benefit from whatever kind of technical thing you bring to it or just extra pair of hands.
[01:25:42.090 --> 01:25:44.130] [SPEAKER_11]: It is so incredibly appreciated.
[01:25:44.340 --> 01:25:57.370] [SPEAKER_11]: And I'm saying specifically because very often you kind of have to pay at every turn to produce a show as good as what hope has been.
[01:25:57.590 --> 01:26:05.110] [SPEAKER_11]: So we really, really value people that are excited, motivated, enthusiastic, and want to work kind of side-by-side with other hackers.
[01:26:05.370 --> 01:26:08.370] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it's hacker ingenuity that gets us through all of this.
[01:26:08.470 --> 01:26:19.110] [SPEAKER_10]: Figuring out a way to do something when everyone else tells you it's impossible or that you're not doing it right or that this is how everybody else does it or, you know, you have to spend the fortune to get this result.
[01:26:20.250 --> 01:26:21.050] [SPEAKER_10]: We're scrappy.
[01:26:21.130 --> 01:26:22.330] [SPEAKER_10]: We figure out ways to get around.
[01:26:22.490 --> 01:26:26.890] [SPEAKER_10]: And we do that through your helps and we're so appreciative of that.
[01:26:27.010 --> 01:26:27.610] [SPEAKER_10]: We have a phone call.
[01:26:27.730 --> 01:26:28.030] [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[01:26:28.150 --> 01:26:29.010] [SPEAKER_10]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:26:29.110 --> 01:26:29.290] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[01:26:30.270 --> 01:26:31.070] [SPEAKER_10]: Hello, folks.
[01:26:31.250 --> 01:26:31.930] [SPEAKER_10]: It's Johnny Fusion.
[01:26:32.290 --> 01:26:33.090] [SPEAKER_10]: Johnny Fusion.
[01:26:33.210 --> 01:26:34.030] [SPEAKER_10]: I haven't heard from you in a while.
[01:26:35.350 --> 01:26:35.790] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:26:36.650 --> 01:26:37.090] [SPEAKER_05]: How you been?
[01:26:37.090 --> 01:26:39.690] [SPEAKER_05]: It's been a while, but I'm doing okay.
[01:26:40.130 --> 01:26:40.790] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's good.
[01:26:41.650 --> 01:26:43.230] [SPEAKER_05]: You don't sound happy about doing okay.
[01:26:43.230 --> 01:26:44.490] [SPEAKER_05]: Sounds like there's a but here.
[01:26:45.190 --> 01:26:46.050] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I've been...
[01:26:46.050 --> 01:26:55.190] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, like Friday and yesterday, I spent a lot of time in the emergency department getting IV fluids because my creatinine is high.
[01:26:55.350 --> 01:26:56.330] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm dehydrated.
[01:26:56.630 --> 01:26:57.190] [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, boy.
[01:26:57.310 --> 01:26:58.930] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, so it's just...
[01:26:59.390 --> 01:27:14.670] [SPEAKER_05]: I was sick Friday and, you know, because I'm immunocompromised and kind of delicate, my transplant team always wants me to err on the side of caution and get checked out.
[01:27:14.670 --> 01:27:17.970] [SPEAKER_05]: So I'm a little tired from all the hospital this week.
[01:27:18.270 --> 01:27:19.050] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, yeah.
[01:27:19.350 --> 01:27:20.010] [SPEAKER_10]: Who wouldn't be?
[01:27:20.370 --> 01:27:20.810] [SPEAKER_10]: That's...
[01:27:22.190 --> 01:27:24.790] [SPEAKER_10]: That sucks to hear that, but it sounds like you made it through okay.
[01:27:25.890 --> 01:27:26.330] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:27:26.550 --> 01:27:28.770] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I never stayed overnight.
[01:27:28.770 --> 01:27:30.370] [SPEAKER_05]: They sent me home both times.
[01:27:31.410 --> 01:27:34.690] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, they just want me to follow up and stuff.
[01:27:34.810 --> 01:27:35.050] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[01:27:35.150 --> 01:27:36.210] [SPEAKER_05]: But that's not why I'm calling.
[01:27:36.410 --> 01:27:36.590] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[01:27:36.710 --> 01:28:02.570] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm calling because listening to the radio show, I thought it was really good this week and the real enemy, like, I think, like one of you said, like, maybe this is bad legislation with, you know, outlawing TikTok, but if we can get Congress just talking about surveillance capitalism,
[01:28:02.570 --> 01:28:13.410] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that might be a step in the right direction because surveillance capitalism is the driving force of why so much of the Internet is crap now.
[01:28:13.930 --> 01:28:14.890] [SPEAKER_10]: True, true.
[01:28:15.130 --> 01:28:17.910] [SPEAKER_10]: You never get them to say the phrase surveillance capitalism, though.
[01:28:18.450 --> 01:28:26.530] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, they will refuse to do that, but if you can make it something else, like surveillance woke-ism, maybe they'll buy into that.
[01:28:27.290 --> 01:28:28.050] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[01:28:28.210 --> 01:28:29.390] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, right, right, right.
[01:28:29.710 --> 01:28:37.210] [SPEAKER_05]: Just let them know that liberals want to sell all the data and then they'll crusade against it.
[01:28:37.390 --> 01:28:43.670] [SPEAKER_05]: They'll make it talking points and then Democrats will capitulate like they always do and we'll get something done.
[01:28:44.230 --> 01:28:45.330] [SPEAKER_10]: Pretty much, yes.
[01:28:48.740 --> 01:28:49.200] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:28:49.520 --> 01:28:59.180] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like, so like, some of my articles, like I've touched on surveillance capitalism, you know, and it's just, it's wild how it came about.
[01:28:59.460 --> 01:29:01.900] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like, I'm a long-time Internet user.
[01:29:02.220 --> 01:29:07.860] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, my first Internet account was a shell account, right?
[01:29:08.100 --> 01:29:24.800] [SPEAKER_05]: Just basically, you've got Linux commands or UNIX commands and UNIX programs to get on IRC, to get on USENET, to do your email, all from a terminal program.
[01:29:25.000 --> 01:29:27.540] [SPEAKER_05]: So that's kind of like how old school I was.
[01:29:27.740 --> 01:29:38.660] [SPEAKER_05]: And I remember that first piece of spam on USENET where someone was trying to sell green card services.
[01:29:39.680 --> 01:29:41.980] [SPEAKER_05]: And people were all up in arms.
[01:29:42.120 --> 01:29:44.980] [SPEAKER_05]: How dare you do something commercial on the Internet?
[01:29:46.980 --> 01:29:49.320] [SPEAKER_05]: And look how far we've come.
[01:29:49.660 --> 01:30:01.340] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I forget which administration it was said, okay, we're going to open up the Internet to business and figure out a way to have business interest on the Internet.
[01:30:01.440 --> 01:30:05.460] [SPEAKER_05]: And I mean, that was the beginning of the end of where we find ourselves now.
[01:30:05.460 --> 01:30:13.040] [SPEAKER_05]: Because for a long time, you know, during the dot-com boom and crash, people didn't know how to make money on the Internet.
[01:30:15.220 --> 01:30:15.800] [SPEAKER_10]: It's true.
[01:30:16.080 --> 01:30:20.580] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it was for communication, it was educational, it was, you know, very idealistic.
[01:30:20.580 --> 01:30:23.580] [SPEAKER_10]: And a lot of the values that we have now came about through that.
[01:30:23.800 --> 01:30:32.840] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, the supporting a freedom of speech and not having fees for every action that you take when communicating with people.
[01:30:33.900 --> 01:30:35.920] [SPEAKER_10]: That all comes about as a result of that.
[01:30:36.140 --> 01:30:46.500] [SPEAKER_10]: The prevalence of OSes like Linux and UNIX-based systems, it's all because of the way the Internet originally developed.
[01:30:46.500 --> 01:30:48.980] [SPEAKER_10]: And it's sad to see some of what it's become.
[01:30:49.200 --> 01:31:00.660] [SPEAKER_10]: I wonder if maybe we just need to have different networks that maybe, you know, exchange some information between them, but definitely have different philosophies in operation.
[01:31:01.580 --> 01:31:05.060] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, people try that building on top of the Internet.
[01:31:05.560 --> 01:31:11.340] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, like I've seen, well, like Mastodon is federated, right?
[01:31:12.120 --> 01:31:16.820] [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, I mean, that was the original model of how things were done on the Internet.
[01:31:17.040 --> 01:31:18.320] [SPEAKER_05]: USENET was federated.
[01:31:18.680 --> 01:31:22.340] [SPEAKER_05]: Email was the oldest federated system we have.
[01:31:22.740 --> 01:31:28.220] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, so, like the Internet promoted decentralization, right?
[01:31:28.460 --> 01:31:33.120] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, that's part of the hacker ethos, too, is not having things be centralized.
[01:31:33.620 --> 01:31:39.560] [SPEAKER_05]: And for something that was designed to be decentralized, it sure has a lot of centers to it now.
[01:31:39.720 --> 01:31:41.640] [SPEAKER_05]: Because what do you do when you go on the Internet?
[01:31:41.940 --> 01:31:52.600] [SPEAKER_05]: You go on YouTube, you go on Facebook, you go on other social media, you know, that are owned by communities by billionaires.
[01:31:53.540 --> 01:32:00.360] [SPEAKER_05]: And there's, you know, like I have my own websites and stuff, you know, I'm just a little guy on the Internet.
[01:32:02.480 --> 01:32:07.200] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, but because of how the Internet's done, I'm like, I'm like buried.
[01:32:08.760 --> 01:32:09.240] [SPEAKER_05]: Right?
[01:32:09.460 --> 01:32:21.620] [SPEAKER_05]: Because I'm just, I'm just there writing words or sharing my ideas or sharing software or, you know, like I have a game that I did for Ludum Dare one jam.
[01:32:22.700 --> 01:32:27.800] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I got all these nice little things on the Internet, not making any money at all.
[01:32:30.180 --> 01:32:34.540] [SPEAKER_05]: But people just don't go to the Internet to connect anymore.
[01:32:34.960 --> 01:32:40.260] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's just, it's these gated sites.
[01:32:42.400 --> 01:32:46.660] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, choked with algorithms to engage and enrage.
[01:32:51.670 --> 01:33:02.350] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I hear the kind of analysis, but it's, I mean, there's so many different angles to where we've ended up and the emergence.
[01:33:02.350 --> 01:33:23.270] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, even the early things like AOL, Prodigy, all those like early mass subscriber-based sort of portals or whatever they were, they were like walled in and it's kind of, we're almost devolving to some of that or as like E was suggesting, like, okay,
[01:33:23.370 --> 01:33:26.730] [SPEAKER_11]: we'll have different ways that maybe pass through one another.
[01:33:27.510 --> 01:33:58.310] [SPEAKER_11]: That's kind of funny because in the grander scheme in a lot of international connectivity, there's resistance to that, but there's also compelling difficulties with the connectedness and the ways that the networked society is being how shall I say abused by less than chill actors.
[01:33:59.270 --> 01:34:16.770] [SPEAKER_11]: So, yeah, like, we don't really want to cut off connections to other places because it's integrated into commerce and other things, but at the same time we have to understand pretty wide-eyed the risks.
[01:34:17.170 --> 01:34:27.190] [SPEAKER_11]: And I go back to the example of younger people being outraged that software they're using might go away.
[01:34:27.870 --> 01:34:35.350] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I can understand growing up in a world where the Internet was always there, right?
[01:34:35.350 --> 01:35:02.130] [SPEAKER_11]: And the idea that something that would go away on the Internet is like anathema to your idea of something that was never not there in the first place and that you get really upset especially when your social life has been commodified into one piece of software and the idea that that company is being disrupted by the government and therefore cutting you off from your social life I can understand
[01:35:02.130 --> 01:35:11.850] [SPEAKER_11]: the righteous indignation and where that all It's like me getting mad at having paid for Microsoft Word 20 times in my lifetime.
[01:35:12.530 --> 01:35:15.810] [SPEAKER_11]: That just has happened to people with software.
[01:35:16.010 --> 01:35:23.350] [SPEAKER_11]: Things that they've done over and over again as companies formed and reformed and transformed and stuff.
[01:35:23.350 --> 01:35:35.710] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, yeah, there's been plenty of business practices over the years that have screwed up, screwed over users, and had that captive subscriber base.
[01:35:35.810 --> 01:35:38.190] [SPEAKER_11]: And I think Cory Doctorow has talked about it already.
[01:35:38.190 --> 01:35:39.210] [SPEAKER_11]: He's characterized it.
[01:35:39.250 --> 01:35:40.690] [SPEAKER_11]: It's the switching cost, right?
[01:35:40.690 --> 01:35:55.950] [SPEAKER_11]: And so you have to, you know, suck it up and decide you're going to, like, do friends elsewhere or not, you know, go for the convenience of it being commodified in the way that's so convenient and fun.
[01:35:56.350 --> 01:35:59.050] [SPEAKER_11]: You know, there's fun ways of making friends.
[01:35:59.050 --> 01:36:00.190] [SPEAKER_11]: And I don't know.
[01:36:00.290 --> 01:36:04.130] [SPEAKER_11]: I find, as you pointed out, it's getting crappier and crappier.
[01:36:04.130 --> 01:36:06.070] [SPEAKER_11]: I want to be online less and less.
[01:36:06.230 --> 01:36:17.330] [SPEAKER_11]: Unless it's actually for real doing something, like, with my own site or with, you know, meaningful communication on the oldest federated protocol being email.
[01:36:17.650 --> 01:36:20.130] [SPEAKER_11]: And, you know, old school stuff, yeah.
[01:36:20.390 --> 01:36:22.090] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, technical stuff, yeah.
[01:36:22.290 --> 01:36:30.670] [SPEAKER_11]: But these kind of, like, bubblegum apps, like, just stuff that feels fly-by-night.
[01:36:30.670 --> 01:36:36.770] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, I don't want my social life to be organized around that solely.
[01:36:37.070 --> 01:36:42.050] [SPEAKER_11]: And I think people who've been on the Internet for a while, like, we're even talking about it.
[01:36:43.070 --> 01:36:45.710] [SPEAKER_11]: When we... and brands are really familiar with it.
[01:36:45.770 --> 01:36:47.190] [SPEAKER_11]: They're on, like, 10 platforms.
[01:36:47.410 --> 01:36:51.210] [SPEAKER_11]: And individuals are on 10 platforms or whatever, you know?
[01:36:51.370 --> 01:36:59.890] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, people may still be on X or Twitter and also on Mastodon and also on YouTube and also on Instagram and also on Facebook.
[01:36:59.890 --> 01:37:10.050] [SPEAKER_11]: They're on all of these things to get whoever is sort of there or active and not being hostile or otherwise, like, socializing.
[01:37:10.450 --> 01:37:17.070] [SPEAKER_11]: But they're... the chaos of it, I think, is something we're being really conditioned to.
[01:37:17.070 --> 01:37:33.710] [SPEAKER_11]: And for a lot of people that also want to, like, live reality and are willing to make the effort, it's almost better to just not try to have your life be captive in software that way.
[01:37:33.730 --> 01:37:42.990] [SPEAKER_11]: I just don't... I don't find that the affinity and the closeness and all of that is as strong as it's being sold to people.
[01:37:43.930 --> 01:37:47.930] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, it's as shallow as we ever thought it was, I think.
[01:37:48.150 --> 01:37:49.050] [SPEAKER_11]: But maybe I'm wrong.
[01:37:49.190 --> 01:37:51.950] [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe... I mean, I'm not... I can't judge everybody's networks.
[01:37:52.110 --> 01:37:56.230] [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe they're better at it or, you know, they're doing it the right way.
[01:37:56.550 --> 01:37:56.990] [SPEAKER_11]: Sure.
[01:37:57.270 --> 01:37:58.370] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, that's fine.
[01:37:58.590 --> 01:38:02.090] [SPEAKER_11]: But things change over time.
[01:38:02.450 --> 01:38:06.210] [SPEAKER_11]: And I just... I think that people should get used to it.
[01:38:06.210 --> 01:38:12.150] [SPEAKER_11]: We've seen things fall apart, companies that make bad choices, and that happens.
[01:38:12.370 --> 01:38:18.890] [SPEAKER_11]: We've had Jason Scott talk about site after site and community after community, geocities.
[01:38:19.050 --> 01:38:19.270] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[01:38:19.410 --> 01:38:23.730] [SPEAKER_11]: There's so many examples of things that have been just imploded.
[01:38:23.930 --> 01:38:27.050] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I started on many different...
[01:38:27.050 --> 01:38:38.250] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, we went through many different social media sites just to gain access to see what the buzz, like, what people were talking about, to see how it works, and then you just abandon it.
[01:38:38.410 --> 01:38:50.430] [SPEAKER_11]: I can't even begin to talk about how many of those types of things that I've checked out and then abandoned just because it's not suiting me, not me personally.
[01:38:50.630 --> 01:38:52.170] [SPEAKER_10]: I discovered ours on WhatsApp today.
[01:38:52.470 --> 01:38:55.750] [SPEAKER_10]: Apparently, I opened an account years ago and forgot about it.
[01:38:58.190 --> 01:38:58.710] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:38:58.930 --> 01:39:02.030] [SPEAKER_05]: So, I think Dr. O has talked about this.
[01:39:02.030 --> 01:39:20.270] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think, you know, to bring it back to Congress, like, there could be legislation to un-crappify the Internet, and one of the things would be to get rid of the cost of leaving, and you do that by making everything interoperable.
[01:39:23.490 --> 01:39:26.190] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, kind of like how telephones worked.
[01:39:26.410 --> 01:39:28.670] [SPEAKER_05]: Any telephone can call any other telephone.
[01:39:29.230 --> 01:39:29.770] [SPEAKER_05]: Right?
[01:39:30.050 --> 01:39:32.370] [SPEAKER_05]: So, to treat this like communications...
[01:39:33.130 --> 01:39:34.290] [SPEAKER_11]: It's really hard.
[01:39:34.430 --> 01:39:49.670] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, a lot of that stuff was opened up, and I mean, we found how that was used in, you know, political scandal, but in other ways, like, as soon as that opens up and it's used in ways that companies don't like, they cut it off.
[01:39:50.370 --> 01:40:08.190] [SPEAKER_11]: And I mean, the concept of, like, unified communications, you know, cross- and inter-platform communications, is a very real thing, and there are a lot of different ways you can connect divergent platforms, and many, you know, voiceover IP and other kind of software
[01:40:12.070 --> 01:40:16.090] [SPEAKER_11]: milestones really made a lot more of that possible.
[01:40:16.090 --> 01:40:34.790] [SPEAKER_11]: But the willingness and the cooperation is, I think, the hard part, especially internationally and otherwise, it's a nice idea, but the companies want to be companies, and they benefit, they don't benefit as much when you're talking to other, to users outside of it.
[01:40:34.910 --> 01:40:37.210] [SPEAKER_11]: And it's just, they have a product.
[01:40:37.210 --> 01:40:41.910] [SPEAKER_11]: They designed it with that life's, you know, it's to work this way.
[01:40:41.970 --> 01:40:51.590] [SPEAKER_11]: And they're very resistant, in my opinion, to try to open up to different ways of doing things.
[01:40:52.310 --> 01:40:59.810] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you know, you know, my personal solution to that is to remove the profit motive completely and dismantle capitalism.
[01:41:00.610 --> 01:41:02.310] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's a tall order.
[01:41:02.550 --> 01:41:04.990] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't think we have enough time for this hour.
[01:41:04.990 --> 01:41:08.550] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, no resistance to that.
[01:41:08.910 --> 01:41:12.090] [SPEAKER_11]: I get the temptation to go there.
[01:41:12.490 --> 01:41:14.710] [SPEAKER_11]: I've, you know, I'm an adult.
[01:41:14.810 --> 01:41:22.930] [SPEAKER_11]: So, I mean, I definitely looked at that in my education and matriculation and so on.
[01:41:23.590 --> 01:41:27.590] [SPEAKER_11]: But it's kind of what's going on right now.
[01:41:27.590 --> 01:41:32.130] [SPEAKER_11]: And I think having more control over it would benefit us.
[01:41:33.350 --> 01:41:34.030] [SPEAKER_11]: Sure.
[01:41:34.030 --> 01:41:36.090] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm, you know, I'm idealist.
[01:41:36.170 --> 01:41:37.930] [SPEAKER_05]: What would we do instead, I guess?
[01:41:38.190 --> 01:41:39.090] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm idealist, but I'm also pragmatic.
[01:41:39.490 --> 01:41:45.070] [SPEAKER_05]: And I understand that capitalism is very entrenched right now.
[01:41:45.230 --> 01:41:47.850] [SPEAKER_05]: But the divine right of kings, like Ursula K.
[01:41:47.990 --> 01:41:56.110] [SPEAKER_05]: Le Guin said, that the divine right of kings was once so entrenched and thought impossible to get rid of.
[01:41:56.390 --> 01:41:56.630] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
[01:41:56.630 --> 01:41:58.730] [SPEAKER_05]: And we basically have.
[01:41:59.030 --> 01:42:02.730] [SPEAKER_05]: So, I mean, change is possible, but it'll take a message.
[01:42:03.190 --> 01:42:03.290] To what, though?
[01:42:03.670 --> 01:42:04.250] [SPEAKER_11]: What's that?
[01:42:04.470 --> 01:42:05.450] [SPEAKER_11]: To what?
[01:42:10.870 --> 01:42:14.730] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, capitalism was only invented like 600 years ago.
[01:42:14.990 --> 01:42:24.410] [SPEAKER_05]: And in the blink of human history, in the span of human history, it's just an eye blink.
[01:42:24.410 --> 01:42:36.710] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, you know, and basically we have to have compassion-based politics working for common good.
[01:42:36.990 --> 01:42:50.710] [SPEAKER_05]: A lot of it may be some more collectivism, you know, instead of everyone looking out for themselves and rewarding greed, instead of having things be community-based.
[01:42:56.000 --> 01:42:56.720] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, Rob.
[01:42:57.380 --> 01:43:12.200] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I think there's something to be said for that, because, you know, we maybe can't dismantle capitalism at least anytime soon, but you can choose indie to the extent that you want to have a social presence on the Internet and find community over the Internet.
[01:43:12.300 --> 01:43:17.880] [SPEAKER_09]: You can take the capitalism out of that by not using for-profit social media.
[01:43:19.320 --> 01:43:24.120] [SPEAKER_09]: I have been terminally online for decades now, in one form or another.
[01:43:24.240 --> 01:43:27.260] [SPEAKER_09]: And I went to all the big sites, you know, hopped around most of them.
[01:43:27.260 --> 01:43:28.140] [SPEAKER_09]: I was on for a bit.
[01:43:28.340 --> 01:43:31.080] [SPEAKER_09]: I recently deleted my Twitter, finally.
[01:43:31.500 --> 01:43:35.300] [SPEAKER_09]: I deleted my Reddit account and some other stuff.
[01:43:35.440 --> 01:43:45.140] [SPEAKER_09]: And I realized not only does it feel a lot more like the old idealistic Internet when I confine my social presence to mainly the Fediverse, federated stuff.
[01:43:45.140 --> 01:43:50.940] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm on Mastodon, I'm on Lemmy now, and a couple of smaller forums, and those are my daily drivers.
[01:43:51.240 --> 01:44:03.820] [SPEAKER_09]: And I realized not only is it a lot less aggravating, I'm not having algorithms try to make me upset for clicks, I'm not having ads try to sell me things, and I just feel, like, better in general.
[01:44:04.520 --> 01:44:10.280] [SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, it's smaller than it was, but I liked it when it was smaller, and I'm having a good time.
[01:44:10.280 --> 01:44:26.420] [SPEAKER_09]: So there are ways to kind of modulate how much you want to participate in this world of sort of for-profit, toxic social media under the control of nut cases, and, you know, still find your way out there and find your community and find your people.
[01:44:26.880 --> 01:44:29.480] [SPEAKER_09]: And so there are still good ways to do that.
[01:44:29.580 --> 01:44:32.500] [SPEAKER_10]: Can I ask you, Rob, you deleted your Twitter account.
[01:44:33.340 --> 01:44:36.380] [SPEAKER_10]: Does that mean all of your tweets just are gone?
[01:44:37.340 --> 01:44:38.200] [SPEAKER_09]: They are.
[01:44:38.200 --> 01:44:43.280] [SPEAKER_09]: I downloaded an archive, so I have them for historical reasons if I want them.
[01:44:43.440 --> 01:44:45.540] [SPEAKER_09]: They're also on archive.org and things like that.
[01:44:45.820 --> 01:44:58.780] [SPEAKER_09]: But they're no longer sitting out there contributing to shareholder value for a company that I no longer wanted to be propping up to the extent that my measly presence on there ever did.
[01:44:58.960 --> 01:45:00.180] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I mean, I understand that.
[01:45:00.300 --> 01:45:01.980] [SPEAKER_10]: I understand the thinking behind that.
[01:45:01.980 --> 01:45:09.220] [SPEAKER_10]: But wouldn't you just leaving and not participating also send a message without having to wipe out some of your history?
[01:45:09.380 --> 01:45:10.680] [SPEAKER_10]: Because, you know, these are your words.
[01:45:10.780 --> 01:45:11.580] [SPEAKER_10]: These are things you've said.
[01:45:11.700 --> 01:45:15.920] [SPEAKER_10]: And people still deserve to read your thoughts and see your experiences.
[01:45:16.500 --> 01:45:18.860] [SPEAKER_10]: And how else would they get to do that?
[01:45:19.860 --> 01:45:20.600] [SPEAKER_09]: This is true.
[01:45:20.700 --> 01:45:21.800] [SPEAKER_09]: And there is something to be said for that.
[01:45:21.860 --> 01:45:26.980] [SPEAKER_09]: And I did have to do some real hard thinking about it for quite a while before I took that step.
[01:45:27.120 --> 01:45:31.020] [SPEAKER_09]: I was basically, since the beginning of this year, not participating actively.
[01:45:31.760 --> 01:45:37.120] [SPEAKER_09]: And I just, I didn't want to continue having my words being part of that.
[01:45:37.280 --> 01:45:45.200] [SPEAKER_09]: And yeah, maybe it's sad to lose all those years and years of history and amusing tweets and things I said to people that were enjoyed.
[01:45:45.600 --> 01:45:47.140] [SPEAKER_09]: And also friendships I made.
[01:45:47.220 --> 01:45:50.860] [SPEAKER_09]: There are people that I miss now because we had no other way of keeping in touch.
[01:45:51.180 --> 01:45:56.000] [SPEAKER_09]: But in the old days, everything was kind of ephemeral online.
[01:45:56.000 --> 01:46:03.300] [SPEAKER_09]: You were not expected to have something be out there as part of your history for public perusal forever.
[01:46:03.660 --> 01:46:05.920] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think maybe there was something lost in that.
[01:46:06.000 --> 01:46:09.000] [SPEAKER_09]: And so I'm embracing that in kind of a new way now.
[01:46:09.880 --> 01:46:10.360] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, Alex.
[01:46:13.600 --> 01:46:16.880] [SPEAKER_06]: I think what Rob said is right on.
[01:46:17.900 --> 01:46:24.080] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think all this social media garbage is just incredibly toxic and harmful in general.
[01:46:24.100 --> 01:46:25.720] [SPEAKER_06]: I'll just take a broader view of it.
[01:46:26.000 --> 01:46:28.420] [SPEAKER_06]: But I wanted to say, it's 10 to 1 here.
[01:46:28.720 --> 01:46:29.820] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm really flagging.
[01:46:29.940 --> 01:46:31.220] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm totally exhausted.
[01:46:31.420 --> 01:46:32.080] [SPEAKER_06]: It's been a long day.
[01:46:32.200 --> 01:46:33.460] [SPEAKER_06]: So I'm going to say goodnight to everybody.
[01:46:33.860 --> 01:46:36.000] [SPEAKER_10]: And just when your Internet started working.
[01:46:37.380 --> 01:46:39.000] [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't get cut off.
[01:46:40.080 --> 01:46:41.280] [SPEAKER_06]: Are we on next week?
[01:46:42.120 --> 01:46:43.520] [SPEAKER_10]: Last I checked, we were, yes.
[01:46:44.200 --> 01:46:44.460] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[01:46:44.680 --> 01:46:44.940] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[01:46:45.020 --> 01:46:45.100] [SPEAKER_06]: Good.
[01:46:45.220 --> 01:46:48.540] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, then I will see everybody next week because I need to go to bed desperately.
[01:46:49.100 --> 01:46:49.580] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[01:46:49.600 --> 01:46:50.860] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm very much flagging here.
[01:46:51.040 --> 01:46:52.720] [SPEAKER_06]: So goodnight, everybody.
[01:46:53.380 --> 01:46:55.900] [SPEAKER_06]: It was great to see everyone and to hear from everybody.
[01:46:56.620 --> 01:46:58.560] [SPEAKER_06]: And I look forward to next week.
[01:46:59.320 --> 01:46:59.480] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:46:59.540 --> 01:47:01.280] [SPEAKER_10]: Everyone say goodnight to Alex here.
[01:47:01.900 --> 01:47:02.260] [SPEAKER_10]: Goodnight, Alex.
[01:47:02.460 --> 01:47:02.600] [SPEAKER_06]: Goodnight.
[01:47:03.220 --> 01:47:04.140] [SPEAKER_06]: Goodnight, everybody.
[01:47:04.340 --> 01:47:04.640] [SPEAKER_06]: See you next time.
[01:47:05.040 --> 01:47:05.580] [SPEAKER_10]: Sleep well.
[01:47:05.820 --> 01:47:06.280] [SPEAKER_06]: See you then.
[01:47:06.520 --> 01:47:07.060] [SPEAKER_06]: I will.
[01:47:07.260 --> 01:47:07.680] [SPEAKER_06]: I hope.
[01:47:07.880 --> 01:47:08.220] [SPEAKER_06]: Bye.
[01:47:08.700 --> 01:47:08.780] [SPEAKER_12]: Bye.
[01:47:11.060 --> 01:47:12.320] [SPEAKER_10]: And that was Alex.
[01:47:12.800 --> 01:47:13.240] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:47:13.720 --> 01:47:15.080] [SPEAKER_10]: Johnny, we're going to move on.
[01:47:15.160 --> 01:47:15.960] [SPEAKER_10]: Any final thoughts from you?
[01:47:16.800 --> 01:47:26.140] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, just one, you know, there, there, there is a reason why people use social media is that, you know, that's where everyone is.
[01:47:26.320 --> 01:47:32.800] [SPEAKER_05]: And when I was dying, like I couldn't leave the house, I was on oxygen and stuff.
[01:47:32.800 --> 01:47:43.660] [SPEAKER_05]: So, like Facebook was the way I kept in touch with my real life social circle, you know, because that's where all my real life and my oldest social circle was.
[01:47:44.300 --> 01:47:48.120] [SPEAKER_05]: So, I mean, it's like a double-edged sword.
[01:47:48.120 --> 01:47:55.180] [SPEAKER_05]: And we got to think about the people that would otherwise be isolated without social media.
[01:47:55.380 --> 01:48:03.400] [SPEAKER_10]: No, it can, it can be a godsend in certain situations, but it can also, you know, be a heavy anchor when you don't want one.
[01:48:03.620 --> 01:48:08.800] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, in other situations, it becomes a crutch when, you know, you should be out doing other things.
[01:48:09.000 --> 01:48:13.380] [SPEAKER_10]: But again, keeping in touch with people, yeah, there's definitely a good to it.
[01:48:13.460 --> 01:48:14.580] [SPEAKER_10]: There's no question about that.
[01:48:15.540 --> 01:48:16.200] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[01:48:18.340 --> 01:48:21.320] [SPEAKER_05]: We'll, I'll, I'll hang up and we can go to the next caller.
[01:48:21.580 --> 01:48:21.780] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:48:21.840 --> 01:48:22.340] [SPEAKER_10]: Good hearing from you.
[01:48:22.540 --> 01:48:22.980] [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks, Johnny.
[01:48:23.380 --> 01:48:23.720] [SPEAKER_10]: Take care.
[01:48:25.440 --> 01:48:28.900] [SPEAKER_10]: And our phone number, 802-321-4225.
[01:48:29.140 --> 01:48:30.980] [SPEAKER_10]: I imagine this will probably be the last call.
[01:48:31.200 --> 01:48:37.620] [SPEAKER_10]: So, whoever is calling now, uh, that will be your, your, uh, legacy tonight is to be the last call.
[01:48:38.180 --> 01:48:40.480] [SPEAKER_10]: 802-321-4225, country code 1.
[01:48:41.180 --> 01:48:43.540] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, that toll-free number again, Rob?
[01:48:45.540 --> 01:48:51.220] [SPEAKER_09]: That toll-free number again is, uh, 833-755-2600.
[01:48:51.540 --> 01:48:52.740] [SPEAKER_10]: I can remember the last part.
[01:48:52.820 --> 01:48:53.720] [SPEAKER_10]: I can't remember the rest.
[01:48:54.660 --> 01:48:55.240] [SPEAKER_10]: One day.
[01:48:55.400 --> 01:48:55.700] [SPEAKER_10]: One day.
[01:48:57.680 --> 01:48:59.160] [SPEAKER_10]: Or I could just write it down, I suppose.
[01:48:59.940 --> 01:49:00.200] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:49:00.220 --> 01:49:01.300] [SPEAKER_10]: Sounds like we have another phone call.
[01:49:02.680 --> 01:49:04.180] [SPEAKER_10]: Do we, in fact, have a phone call, Kyle?
[01:49:05.540 --> 01:49:05.980] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:49:07.040 --> 01:49:07.900] [SPEAKER_10]: And good evening.
[01:49:08.160 --> 01:49:09.500] [SPEAKER_10]: You're on All Ftock Overtime.
[01:49:09.600 --> 01:49:09.820] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[01:49:11.060 --> 01:49:11.580] [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening.
[01:49:12.000 --> 01:49:15.240] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, I called a minute ago, but I felt like I needed to call back.
[01:49:15.480 --> 01:49:23.720] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, talking about the de-shittification of the Internet, uh, I just wanted to, you know, kind of remind people of CDC's project they're working on.
[01:49:23.820 --> 01:49:25.200] [SPEAKER_04]: It's still kind of a baby.
[01:49:25.400 --> 01:49:27.600] [SPEAKER_04]: It hasn't, you know, bore much fruit yet.
[01:49:27.740 --> 01:49:28.420] [SPEAKER_04]: But Veilid?
[01:49:28.660 --> 01:49:29.380] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, Veilid.
[01:49:29.660 --> 01:49:30.560] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's pretty cool.
[01:49:30.740 --> 01:49:31.020] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:49:31.020 --> 01:49:40.040] [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, also I just wanted to drop a little piece of news that came out on the 11th that I didn't see anywhere cover whatsoever, and I thought it was pretty crazy.
[01:49:40.260 --> 01:49:50.020] [SPEAKER_04]: But, uh, a group, SiegeSec, they, uh, hacked AirAsia, and, like, they already dumped all of their source code and, uh, a ton of private information.
[01:49:50.220 --> 01:49:50.540] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, dear.
[01:49:50.540 --> 01:49:51.660] [SPEAKER_04]: And I didn't see that anywhere.
[01:49:52.140 --> 01:49:54.680] [SPEAKER_10]: Probably because there's so many stories like that.
[01:49:54.700 --> 01:49:57.520] [SPEAKER_10]: There's probably so many stories like that of companies being hacked.
[01:49:58.620 --> 01:49:59.420] [SPEAKER_04]: Very true.
[01:50:00.080 --> 01:50:00.880] [SPEAKER_04]: But, uh, yeah.
[01:50:00.880 --> 01:50:05.160] [SPEAKER_10]: So, all their data has been, has been exposed, or is it ransomware?
[01:50:05.340 --> 01:50:07.880] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, they've dumped it to the public.
[01:50:08.060 --> 01:50:09.180] [SPEAKER_04]: They have a Telegram channel.
[01:50:09.360 --> 01:50:15.120] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to mention that, but, uh, they said it's 2.2 gigs of, uh, data for AirAsia.
[01:50:15.280 --> 01:50:18.080] [SPEAKER_04]: The source code and, uh, private information.
[01:50:18.380 --> 01:50:20.360] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm assuming, including customers.
[01:50:20.580 --> 01:50:22.740] [SPEAKER_04]: It kind of freaked me out because I was just flying AirAsia.
[01:50:23.400 --> 01:50:24.040] [SPEAKER_04]: But, yeah.
[01:50:24.500 --> 01:50:24.780] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[01:50:25.040 --> 01:50:25.560] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't bring that up.
[01:50:26.020 --> 01:50:28.580] [SPEAKER_10]: You never know what's, uh, what's going to be compromised next.
[01:50:30.000 --> 01:50:30.440] [SPEAKER_04]: Nope.
[01:50:30.720 --> 01:50:31.000] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[01:50:31.200 --> 01:50:31.860] [SPEAKER_04]: Everything will be.
[01:50:32.440 --> 01:50:32.880] [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[01:50:33.340 --> 01:50:33.680] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[01:50:33.680 --> 01:50:34.160] [SPEAKER_04]: Have a good night.
[01:50:34.280 --> 01:50:34.500] [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks.
[01:50:34.540 --> 01:50:35.160] [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for the update.
[01:50:36.360 --> 01:50:40.760] [SPEAKER_10]: And, technically, that's not another call because the person called the second time.
[01:50:40.880 --> 01:50:41.420] [SPEAKER_10]: So, okay.
[01:50:41.420 --> 01:50:44.320] [SPEAKER_10]: We'll open it up because, legally, we would be on the hook for this.
[01:50:44.820 --> 01:50:46.740] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, 802-321-4225.
[01:50:46.740 --> 01:50:51.720] [SPEAKER_10]: So, uh, call if, uh, you haven't called before and it will count as a new call.
[01:50:51.880 --> 01:50:53.300] [SPEAKER_10]: And that'll be the last call for tonight.
[01:50:53.520 --> 01:50:54.760] [SPEAKER_10]: 802-321-HACK.
[01:50:55.260 --> 01:50:55.960] [SPEAKER_10]: Or 800.
[01:50:56.260 --> 01:50:56.680] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry.
[01:50:56.860 --> 01:50:57.240] [SPEAKER_10]: 833.
[01:50:59.360 --> 01:51:00.400] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm going to get it out.
[01:51:00.880 --> 01:51:02.320] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, 399?
[01:51:03.140 --> 01:51:03.440] [SPEAKER_10]: No?
[01:51:05.440 --> 01:51:05.880] [SPEAKER_09]: 755.
[01:51:06.660 --> 01:51:07.940] [SPEAKER_10]: No, there's a 3 in there somewhere.
[01:51:08.480 --> 01:51:08.920] [SPEAKER_10]: Really?
[01:51:09.020 --> 01:51:09.200] [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[01:51:09.380 --> 01:51:10.000] [SPEAKER_10]: It's 833.
[01:51:10.380 --> 01:51:11.240] [SPEAKER_10]: Those are the 3s in.
[01:51:11.320 --> 01:51:11.540] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:51:11.720 --> 01:51:12.340] [SPEAKER_09]: Those are the 3s.
[01:51:12.380 --> 01:51:12.480] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:51:13.500 --> 01:51:14.380] [SPEAKER_09]: 755-2600.
[01:51:14.380 --> 01:51:15.080] [SPEAKER_10]: If you say so.
[01:51:15.240 --> 01:51:15.400] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:51:15.560 --> 01:51:15.980] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, good evening.
[01:51:16.100 --> 01:51:16.920] [SPEAKER_10]: You're on off the cover time.
[01:51:17.000 --> 01:51:17.180] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[01:51:18.640 --> 01:51:19.260] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, guys.
[01:51:19.400 --> 01:51:20.060] [SPEAKER_03]: How are you?
[01:51:20.260 --> 01:51:21.540] [SPEAKER_03]: This is like the old days.
[01:51:21.980 --> 01:51:23.380] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, is it like the old days?
[01:51:25.180 --> 01:51:28.520] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's like going back to the 90s and the 80s.
[01:51:28.920 --> 01:51:29.840] [SPEAKER_03]: The name is Howard.
[01:51:30.520 --> 01:51:35.440] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, you gotta have the, uh, hope thing in my backyard over St. John's.
[01:51:35.900 --> 01:51:36.260] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[01:51:36.680 --> 01:51:39.500] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, hope is that, well, if you're in Queens, I guess it is in your backyard.
[01:51:41.320 --> 01:51:43.440] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'm about a mile and a half away.
[01:51:43.660 --> 01:51:43.900] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh.
[01:51:44.900 --> 01:51:46.020] [SPEAKER_10]: That is awesome.
[01:51:46.200 --> 01:51:46.720] [SPEAKER_03]: Where did they use it?
[01:51:47.100 --> 01:51:47.540] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry?
[01:51:48.000 --> 01:51:50.240] [SPEAKER_10]: The 12th, 12th through the 14th of July.
[01:51:50.600 --> 01:51:50.820] [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[01:51:52.120 --> 01:51:53.640] [SPEAKER_03]: July 12th and 14th?
[01:51:53.740 --> 01:51:53.880] [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[01:51:53.880 --> 01:51:54.640] [SPEAKER_11]: Through the 14th.
[01:51:54.740 --> 01:51:55.280] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that weekend.
[01:51:57.680 --> 01:51:58.100] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[01:51:58.280 --> 01:52:00.440] [SPEAKER_03]: Can't wait to, uh, to come over there.
[01:52:00.760 --> 01:52:01.200] [SPEAKER_11]: Please do.
[01:52:01.440 --> 01:52:02.880] [SPEAKER_03]: Across from the old by the bus.
[01:52:04.040 --> 01:52:04.660] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:52:05.260 --> 01:52:06.660] [SPEAKER_10]: No, that, that's, that's amazing.
[01:52:06.880 --> 01:52:10.140] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, because, you know, we find Queens to be such a cool place to be in.
[01:52:10.140 --> 01:52:11.660] [SPEAKER_10]: And there's just so much to do.
[01:52:11.880 --> 01:52:14.780] [SPEAKER_10]: And it's, it's, the buses work really well in Queens.
[01:52:14.980 --> 01:52:16.100] [SPEAKER_10]: They get you everywhere you need to go.
[01:52:17.620 --> 01:52:18.740] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you can only, yeah.
[01:52:19.060 --> 01:52:20.160] [SPEAKER_03]: And I also have a repeat.
[01:52:20.280 --> 01:52:20.700] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a ham.
[01:52:20.960 --> 01:52:21.600] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, wow.
[01:52:21.700 --> 01:52:22.520] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a ham operator.
[01:52:22.520 --> 01:52:22.960] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:52:23.500 --> 01:52:28.280] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I, I know, I know we're going to have ham, um, uh, talks.
[01:52:28.600 --> 01:52:36.360] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, I, I think a, uh, um, a village or a, a, a, a table of, um, what's the word I'm looking for?
[01:52:36.400 --> 01:52:36.720] [SPEAKER_10]: Workshop.
[01:52:37.060 --> 01:52:37.700] [SPEAKER_10]: Ham workshop.
[01:52:37.960 --> 01:52:41.240] [SPEAKER_10]: So if you want to get involved in that, by all means, uh, write to us and we'll happen.
[01:52:41.240 --> 01:52:42.700] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I've been involved in many years.
[01:52:42.900 --> 01:52:50.160] [SPEAKER_03]: Listen, before we end this, uh, call, uh, you guys still have the Friday night get-togethers used to having a city bank.
[01:52:50.260 --> 01:52:51.160] [SPEAKER_03]: Where is it these days?
[01:52:51.160 --> 01:52:52.880] [SPEAKER_10]: It's the same exact place.
[01:52:53.020 --> 01:52:54.760] [SPEAKER_10]: It's just, the building is now called city group.
[01:52:54.900 --> 01:53:01.040] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, it's the first Friday of every month from about five to about eight or actually it goes beyond that.
[01:53:01.140 --> 01:53:02.220] [SPEAKER_10]: Gila, did you have something to add to that?
[01:53:02.840 --> 01:53:08.120] [SPEAKER_13]: Um, just a, well, first of all, the, it's now called the hue, like the food court is called the hue and it's awesome.
[01:53:08.340 --> 01:53:10.280] [SPEAKER_10]: The food court is called that, but the building is still city group.
[01:53:10.320 --> 01:53:11.600] [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, the building is city court, but yes.
[01:53:12.000 --> 01:53:15.440] [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, we do have a question if the caller could identify themselves.
[01:53:16.980 --> 01:53:17.720] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, call someone.
[01:53:19.140 --> 01:53:20.900] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'll give you my call sign, my name.
[01:53:20.900 --> 01:53:21.480] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't care.
[01:53:21.700 --> 01:53:24.680] [SPEAKER_03]: W-B-2-H-W-W.
[01:53:24.960 --> 01:53:25.920] [SPEAKER_03]: My name is Howard.
[01:53:26.780 --> 01:53:27.220] [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[01:53:27.320 --> 01:53:28.340] [SPEAKER_10]: How long have you been a ham for?
[01:53:30.100 --> 01:53:30.840] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, let me see.
[01:53:30.920 --> 01:53:32.780] [SPEAKER_03]: I got licensed in 1967.
[01:53:32.940 --> 01:53:34.760] [SPEAKER_03]: That's why I first got licensed.
[01:53:34.900 --> 01:53:36.720] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm 69, so I'm an old fart.
[01:53:38.160 --> 01:53:39.380] [SPEAKER_10]: That is so awesome.
[01:53:39.380 --> 01:53:45.080] [SPEAKER_03]: I was around, I was around when telephones run on crossbar one and crossbar five.
[01:53:45.300 --> 01:53:46.480] [SPEAKER_10]: You remember crossbar five?
[01:53:46.480 --> 01:53:46.860] [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[01:53:47.040 --> 01:53:49.360] [SPEAKER_10]: I just, uh, it was better then.
[01:53:49.440 --> 01:53:49.700] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry.
[01:53:49.840 --> 01:53:50.420] [SPEAKER_10]: It sounded better.
[01:53:50.900 --> 01:53:51.900] [SPEAKER_10]: It sounded so much better.
[01:53:51.900 --> 01:53:52.880] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it did.
[01:53:53.100 --> 01:53:58.140] [SPEAKER_03]: I, I mean, I, I, I was in an office, uh, that was on 164th Street.
[01:53:58.440 --> 01:54:05.500] [SPEAKER_03]: It was the office that they used for the World's Fair, and then they gave it to, uh, they gave it, they gave it over to the Queens area.
[01:54:05.720 --> 01:54:06.900] [SPEAKER_03]: Now it's no longer there.
[01:54:07.040 --> 01:54:07.940] [SPEAKER_03]: Now it's all Internet.
[01:54:08.280 --> 01:54:08.620] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[01:54:08.620 --> 01:54:10.160] [SPEAKER_03]: They decided to get rid of a conference.
[01:54:10.320 --> 01:54:10.920] [SPEAKER_03]: No more pop.
[01:54:10.920 --> 01:54:11.880] [SPEAKER_10]: I know, I know.
[01:54:11.940 --> 01:54:12.320] [SPEAKER_10]: It's terrible.
[01:54:12.440 --> 01:54:20.660] [SPEAKER_10]: Remember how, uh, how the ring tone sounded different for every central office, whether it was a one or a five, uh, now everything sounds the same.
[01:54:22.320 --> 01:54:24.180] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no more 2600.
[01:54:24.400 --> 01:54:26.120] [SPEAKER_03]: You can't blow the phone lights off anymore.
[01:54:26.580 --> 01:54:26.840] [SPEAKER_10]: Nope.
[01:54:27.000 --> 01:54:27.160] [SPEAKER_10]: Nope.
[01:54:27.240 --> 01:54:28.420] [SPEAKER_10]: That does not work anymore.
[01:54:29.680 --> 01:54:34.520] [SPEAKER_03]: No more black boxes with a relay or a neon bulb, and you just got a free phone call.
[01:54:34.760 --> 01:54:35.100] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:54:35.320 --> 01:54:38.660] [SPEAKER_10]: So how, how has the ham community changed since 1967?
[01:54:40.920 --> 01:54:42.440] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, now it's, uh, very fun.
[01:54:42.820 --> 01:54:50.940] [SPEAKER_03]: Everybody's using voice over IP, people using, uh, you know, uh, digital modes these days.
[01:54:51.120 --> 01:54:52.200] [SPEAKER_03]: This doesn't sound as good.
[01:54:52.360 --> 01:54:56.720] [SPEAKER_03]: They do like good old analog audio, not just digital crap.
[01:54:57.000 --> 01:54:57.320] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:54:58.100 --> 01:54:59.220] [SPEAKER_10]: Sounds like the same thing.
[01:54:59.620 --> 01:55:00.440] [SPEAKER_03]: Voice over IP.
[01:55:01.500 --> 01:55:11.860] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, I got a repeater over on, uh, I got a repeater on 440, a big repeater, to make it from the, uh, from that school, from the whole convention, with 100 milliwatters.
[01:55:12.400 --> 01:55:17.940] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you know, if, uh, you want to show that off, um, we can definitely set you up at the conference if you're interested.
[01:55:19.360 --> 01:55:20.580] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll be coming around.
[01:55:21.020 --> 01:55:25.280] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I can't wait to see this and probably come down.
[01:55:25.660 --> 01:55:30.700] [SPEAKER_03]: I remember with you guys in the, uh, 80s and 90s on WBAI.
[01:55:31.020 --> 01:55:31.400] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:55:31.400 --> 01:55:32.500] [SPEAKER_03]: So now you're on Wednesday.
[01:55:32.720 --> 01:55:35.460] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought, I thought you guys had left the AI for a while.
[01:55:35.720 --> 01:55:38.340] [SPEAKER_10]: No, no, we pretty much have been around for the duration.
[01:55:38.700 --> 01:55:39.800] [SPEAKER_10]: So every Wednesday at 7.
[01:55:41.400 --> 01:55:42.620] [SPEAKER_03]: Every Wednesday at 7.
[01:55:42.880 --> 01:55:43.100] [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[01:55:43.180 --> 01:55:46.960] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'll start listening again, because that's how I found you tonight.
[01:55:47.400 --> 01:55:48.020] [SPEAKER_10]: Wow, great.
[01:55:48.020 --> 01:55:49.400] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know you guys had a YouTube.
[01:55:50.080 --> 01:55:50.500] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:55:50.620 --> 01:55:52.340] [SPEAKER_03]: I can finally listen to you guys on YouTube.
[01:55:52.520 --> 01:55:53.320] [SPEAKER_03]: That's pretty cool.
[01:55:53.860 --> 01:55:55.520] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, we get around, you know.
[01:55:55.720 --> 01:56:01.020] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, please visit hope.net, get more information about the conference, and, um, we really look forward to seeing you.
[01:56:03.200 --> 01:56:06.040] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, July will be coming around pretty soon.
[01:56:06.220 --> 01:56:06.660] [SPEAKER_10]: I know.
[01:56:06.960 --> 01:56:08.080] [SPEAKER_10]: Really, really soon.
[01:56:08.320 --> 01:56:09.020] [SPEAKER_10]: It's scary.
[01:56:09.480 --> 01:56:14.520] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'll roll the guys in the black coat to the, uh, black cars, try to figure out what everybody's up to.
[01:56:14.680 --> 01:56:16.540] [SPEAKER_10]: Yep, they're, they're, they're starting already.
[01:56:18.500 --> 01:56:20.040] [SPEAKER_10]: All right, Howard, great hearing from you.
[01:56:20.160 --> 01:56:20.380] [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks.
[01:56:20.600 --> 01:56:21.160] [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for calling.
[01:56:22.640 --> 01:56:23.400] [SPEAKER_03]: It's been a pleasure.
[01:56:23.740 --> 01:56:24.480] [SPEAKER_10]: All right, take care.
[01:56:25.920 --> 01:56:26.240] [SPEAKER_03]: Bye.
[01:56:26.460 --> 01:56:26.580] [SPEAKER_10]: Bye.
[01:56:31.440 --> 01:56:32.780] [SPEAKER_10]: From 1967, Howard.
[01:56:33.700 --> 01:56:34.320] [SPEAKER_09]: That was great.
[01:56:34.380 --> 01:56:35.320] [SPEAKER_09]: That call made me so happy.
[01:56:35.500 --> 01:56:35.680] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:56:36.520 --> 01:56:40.340] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, yeah, we're gonna do ham radio stuff, so, uh, let's get that organized.
[01:56:41.920 --> 01:56:43.920] [SPEAKER_10]: Keep checking in, hope.net for more details.
[01:56:44.100 --> 01:56:44.860] [SPEAKER_11]: Come one, come all.
[01:56:45.040 --> 01:56:45.340] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:56:45.640 --> 01:56:47.580] [SPEAKER_10]: We have our hotel updates today.
[01:56:47.760 --> 01:57:05.200] [SPEAKER_10]: We're gonna have more info on the venue, and, and some of the talks will be, uh, announced fairly soon as well, but, uh, we still have many openings for more talks, panels, workshops, villages, demonstrations, performances, uh, displays, whatever you can think of.
[01:57:05.300 --> 01:57:10.840] [SPEAKER_10]: We have space, we have, uh, talent, we have, uh, a lot of people who are really into this.
[01:57:11.060 --> 01:57:16.060] [SPEAKER_10]: So visit hope.net, and plenty of links to click on to, uh, contact us or to get involved.
[01:57:16.440 --> 01:57:18.760] [SPEAKER_10]: Any final words before we, uh, sign off for the night?
[01:57:20.600 --> 01:57:34.240] [SPEAKER_13]: Um, seriously, if there is someone you know or love or are who menstruates, pocket calendar and a felt-tip pen, um, you want to set up a table at Hope and we can just hand those out.
[01:57:36.820 --> 01:57:37.660] [SPEAKER_13]: No problem there.
[01:57:37.820 --> 01:57:37.860] [SPEAKER_13]: You could.
[01:57:38.560 --> 01:57:38.900] [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[01:57:39.440 --> 01:57:40.600] [SPEAKER_13]: No, get a ton of pocket calendars.
[01:57:40.700 --> 01:57:41.000] [SPEAKER_13]: It'll be great.
[01:57:41.340 --> 01:57:56.900] [SPEAKER_13]: Um, and I want to, again, thank the 50 people who have hung in with us for the last hour, uh, the chat is always fun, was very lively this evening, thanks to the new faces who are with us tonight, and we'll see you next week.
[01:57:57.300 --> 01:57:58.200] [SPEAKER_10]: All right, good night, everybody.
[01:57:58.200 --> 01:57:58.320] [SPEAKER_10]: Good night, everybody.