[00:30.730 --> 00:33.810] [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and try again.
[00:34.150 --> 00:38.150] [SPEAKER_00]: If you need help, stay on the line and a hacker will assist you shortly.
[02:23.030 --> 02:25.010] [SPEAKER_06]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:25.090 --> 02:27.270] [SPEAKER_06]: The program is... Off The Hook.
[02:28.110 --> 02:32.630] [SPEAKER_06]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:33.170 --> 02:34.550] [SPEAKER_06]: Joined tonight by Kyle.
[02:35.130 --> 02:35.330] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[02:35.670 --> 02:37.030] [SPEAKER_06]: Out in Skype-land, we have Rob T. Firefly.
[02:38.430 --> 02:39.090] [SPEAKER_01]: Good evening.
[02:40.170 --> 02:42.190] [SPEAKER_06]: Why is he only in the left... oh, because I didn't do that.
[02:42.330 --> 02:43.070] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, say that again.
[02:43.830 --> 02:44.470] [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[02:44.630 --> 02:45.130] [SPEAKER_06]: There we go.
[02:45.490 --> 02:46.350] [SPEAKER_06]: And we have Gila.
[02:46.890 --> 02:47.590] [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[02:47.890 --> 02:48.750] [SPEAKER_06]: And we have Alex.
[02:49.890 --> 02:50.590] [SPEAKER_04]: You do.
[02:50.850 --> 02:51.690] [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening, everyone.
[02:51.970 --> 02:53.970] [SPEAKER_06]: And my deepest apologies to everybody.
[02:54.130 --> 02:57.610] [SPEAKER_06]: We promised we weren't going to be on the air tonight, and we are.
[02:58.030 --> 03:02.690] [SPEAKER_06]: Now, before people get angry and start writing letters, let me just explain.
[03:03.710 --> 03:11.730] [SPEAKER_06]: It was a change in plans in the schedule, and we were asked if we would be good enough to do what we usually do on Wednesday nights.
[03:12.090 --> 03:13.090] [SPEAKER_06]: And so we are.
[03:13.450 --> 03:13.830] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[03:13.930 --> 03:15.030] [SPEAKER_06]: That's the end of it.
[03:15.490 --> 03:16.090] [SPEAKER_06]: Here we are.
[03:17.170 --> 03:26.070] [SPEAKER_06]: Talking about technology and privacy and all sorts of other hacker-related things, which is what we do here on Off The Hook pretty much every week.
[03:26.590 --> 03:30.090] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, everybody's staying, um, I almost said warm.
[03:30.450 --> 03:31.830] [SPEAKER_06]: I know we're staying warm.
[03:32.430 --> 03:33.730] [SPEAKER_06]: Everybody's staying cool.
[03:34.070 --> 03:35.670] [SPEAKER_06]: Are we all under control?
[03:35.810 --> 03:45.990] [SPEAKER_06]: Because I'm supposed to step in every few minutes to make sure people are hydrated and that nobody is, um, uh, sweating too much, uh, because we're in the middle of a heat wave here.
[03:46.170 --> 03:48.910] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, Rob, you've got some kind of a beverage, which looks good.
[03:49.370 --> 03:52.370] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I've got a hot coffee, Kyle.
[03:52.930 --> 03:53.830] [SPEAKER_06]: That's my beverage.
[03:54.770 --> 03:55.830] [SPEAKER_06]: I guess it's refreshing.
[03:55.990 --> 03:56.410] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, why not?
[03:56.750 --> 03:57.170] [SPEAKER_06]: Um...
[03:57.170 --> 03:57.930] [SPEAKER_05]: I am cool.
[03:58.210 --> 03:59.870] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, you're just always cool.
[04:00.010 --> 04:00.690] [SPEAKER_06]: I can confirm.
[04:00.930 --> 04:01.030] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[04:01.810 --> 04:03.170] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, Gila, you doing okay there?
[04:04.390 --> 04:12.810] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm doing well, although I did hear that drinking hot beverages in a heat wave is good because it does some sort of weird body science that cools you down more.
[04:13.230 --> 04:15.510] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it does feel good, I'll tell you that.
[04:15.510 --> 04:17.810] [SPEAKER_06]: And you know what, having hot spicy food also helps.
[04:17.950 --> 04:19.150] [SPEAKER_06]: I, I don't understand it.
[04:19.550 --> 04:20.870] [SPEAKER_06]: Alex, how, how are you doing heat-wise?
[04:20.990 --> 04:21.850] [SPEAKER_06]: First of all, where are you?
[04:23.170 --> 04:24.350] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, I'm in New York.
[04:24.510 --> 04:24.970] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, you are.
[04:25.050 --> 04:30.990] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm in, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm in the West Village in New York, so, um, that might not be the case next week.
[04:31.110 --> 04:31.650] [SPEAKER_04]: We'll see.
[04:31.890 --> 04:32.150] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[04:32.490 --> 04:33.950] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, next week that won't be a heat wave.
[04:34.910 --> 04:35.790] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, let's hope not.
[04:35.950 --> 04:39.770] [SPEAKER_04]: But I'm, I'm with you in imbibing a diuretic as well.
[04:39.850 --> 04:41.190] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I didn't say it that way.
[04:42.270 --> 04:42.490] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[04:42.690 --> 04:44.970] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, it's just another way of putting it.
[04:44.970 --> 04:45.710] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, all right.
[04:45.790 --> 04:46.050] [SPEAKER_04]: Coffee.
[04:46.570 --> 04:47.510] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah, coffee's good.
[04:47.650 --> 04:48.210] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, fine.
[04:48.570 --> 04:49.730] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, bean juice.
[04:49.890 --> 04:50.110] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[04:50.390 --> 04:51.750] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, Rob, you have something?
[04:52.590 --> 05:05.110] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just, uh, in case our, our listeners out there aren't aware of the sacrifices we make as professional radio producers, uh, we did turn off our apartment's air conditioner, so, uh, we would sound better for you while the show is on.
[05:05.230 --> 05:09.850] [SPEAKER_01]: So, if, if it heats up in here and, uh, and we get heat stroke, it's not our fault.
[05:09.910 --> 05:10.430] [SPEAKER_01]: It's all of yours.
[05:10.590 --> 05:12.110] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so, uh, we have a fan.
[05:12.190 --> 05:14.110] [SPEAKER_06]: We don't even have air conditioning in this studio here.
[05:14.110 --> 05:22.770] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, we have a fan that blows semi-cool air into the room, but we turned that off because that's making such a racket, we didn't want to, uh, offend anybody.
[05:22.990 --> 05:28.690] [SPEAKER_06]: So, um, yeah, if we start passing out, we'll, please, uh, be patient with us as we, um,
[05:41.990 --> 05:45.570] [SPEAKER_06]: try heat wave thing, uh, what do you think the headline is over on Axios?
[05:46.090 --> 05:48.910] [SPEAKER_06]: How to keep your smartphone cool during a heat wave.
[05:49.230 --> 05:50.730] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, because that's the priority.
[05:50.830 --> 05:56.210] [SPEAKER_06]: That's the priority to keep your damn smartphone happy and, and, and, and, and not overly hot.
[05:56.350 --> 05:58.130] [SPEAKER_06]: And, um, you know, I know how to do it.
[05:58.250 --> 05:58.990] [SPEAKER_06]: There's several ways.
[05:59.110 --> 06:00.250] [SPEAKER_06]: Turn the damn thing off.
[06:00.410 --> 06:03.570] [SPEAKER_06]: There's that, uh, throw it into a bathtub filled with water.
[06:03.570 --> 06:08.090] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I was going to suggest throwing it into the East River, but no, uh, East River has enough problems.
[06:08.550 --> 06:13.790] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, but yeah, okay, so, um, um, there are ways to do this.
[06:13.890 --> 06:34.130] [SPEAKER_06]: I suppose we should, um, let people know, um, basically to avoid, um, uh, reaching the point where your smartphone is, uh, gets past, uh, the point of no return where features become disabled, maybe temporarily, maybe permanently, um, leaving a smartphone in very hot conditions can,
[06:34.250 --> 06:38.650] [SPEAKER_06]: uh, permanently shorten its battery life and damage other parts.
[06:39.110 --> 06:44.370] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, so, um, don't use it continually in direct sunlight.
[06:44.510 --> 06:45.830] [SPEAKER_06]: Did I really have to say that?
[06:46.110 --> 06:49.250] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, first of all, you shouldn't be in direct sunlight.
[06:49.530 --> 06:49.830] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[06:50.090 --> 06:54.350] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know what you're doing with a smartphone in direct sunlight, but it just sounds like a bad idea.
[06:54.350 --> 06:58.930] [SPEAKER_06]: Don't leave it in a parked car or near a heat source.
[06:59.230 --> 07:00.790] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, pretend it's, it's, it's a child.
[07:01.350 --> 07:08.090] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, yeah, that might not be the best, uh, advice because, uh, I'm not sure how, how much sense people have.
[07:08.310 --> 07:10.190] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, yeah, but don't leave it in a parked car.
[07:10.330 --> 07:11.330] [SPEAKER_06]: Don't leave it near a heat source.
[07:11.930 --> 07:19.350] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, give it water every now and then, uh, remove your phone case, uh, as some covers can trap the heat.
[07:19.450 --> 07:19.610] [SPEAKER_06]: Really?
[07:19.610 --> 07:29.090] [SPEAKER_06]: You have to take the phone case off your phone to keep it, uh, from overheating, uh, use the low power mode, which disables some, some background activity.
[07:30.090 --> 07:30.870] [SPEAKER_05]: That's a good one.
[07:30.950 --> 07:31.890] [SPEAKER_06]: I guess it is.
[07:32.110 --> 07:38.910] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I don't, I don't want to get into interpersonal issues here, but I don't like my smartphone anymore.
[07:38.910 --> 07:39.750] [SPEAKER_06]: I really don't.
[07:39.850 --> 07:41.370] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I feel like I was misled.
[07:41.650 --> 07:51.830] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, it's a Samsung Galaxy and, uh, everybody raved about it, told me this was the phone to get, uh, and I figured, yeah, okay, um, it came with what, terabyte of, uh, memory?
[07:51.930 --> 07:52.990] [SPEAKER_06]: Is that what they come with these days?
[07:53.330 --> 07:54.030] [SPEAKER_06]: What, what is it?
[07:54.170 --> 07:54.770] [SPEAKER_06]: What's, what's the...
[07:54.770 --> 07:55.950] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe half or a quarter.
[07:55.950 --> 07:56.350] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what?
[07:56.350 --> 07:56.930] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't even know.
[07:57.090 --> 08:00.390] [SPEAKER_06]: I, it came with a good amount and that's the, that's what I decided to get.
[08:00.830 --> 08:11.710] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, turns out that's unexpandable and I didn't know that and they sure don't say that in the brochure or whatever it is they use to advertise these things because I started getting warnings that, hey, you're about to run out of space.
[08:11.710 --> 08:12.090] [SPEAKER_06]: Really?
[08:12.250 --> 08:12.410] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[08:12.630 --> 08:18.450] [SPEAKER_06]: I'll just pop in another, um, um, uh, SIM card or expansion module or whatever.
[08:18.610 --> 08:24.990] [SPEAKER_06]: And it turns out on this particular phone due to popular demand, you can't do that anymore.
[08:25.270 --> 08:29.150] [SPEAKER_06]: I, you know, I always seem to be going against whatever the popular demand is.
[08:29.510 --> 08:36.870] [SPEAKER_06]: People want to keep everything that they own somewhere else in the cloud, uh, where Google can watch over it instead of you.
[08:37.070 --> 08:38.170] [SPEAKER_06]: People want that.
[08:38.310 --> 08:41.410] [SPEAKER_06]: People want to be nagged into updating things constantly.
[08:41.710 --> 08:52.550] [SPEAKER_06]: People want their computers to reboot in the middle of the night, even when they're in the middle of a hundred projects, you know, people just want to pay a monthly fee for software they used to be able to buy on their own.
[08:53.150 --> 08:57.410] [SPEAKER_06]: And apparently people want smartphones that have a finite amount of memory.
[08:57.430 --> 08:59.510] [SPEAKER_06]: And when you run out of it, you run out of it.
[08:59.870 --> 09:07.990] [SPEAKER_06]: So I've got this phone now that, um, well, I've, I've got to go through, I guess, every video I've ever made and decide which ones to delete.
[09:08.190 --> 09:11.450] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I can copy them someplace else, but what if I'm, what if I'm out someplace?
[09:11.910 --> 09:20.230] [SPEAKER_06]: And I finally meet the person who's going to believe my, my alien abduction video is real and I've deleted it and I can't show it to them.
[09:20.490 --> 09:23.250] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, this, how do I decide what to delete?
[09:23.690 --> 09:25.990] [SPEAKER_06]: It's, it's a, it's an unenviable situation.
[09:25.990 --> 09:33.590] [SPEAKER_06]: So be careful, be careful the, if there even is fine print, when you buy a phone, make sure you get one that, uh, you can expand.
[09:33.590 --> 09:38.110] [SPEAKER_06]: You can continuously add to, if that's even possible anymore.
[09:39.110 --> 09:40.030] [SPEAKER_06]: Whose hand is that?
[09:40.110 --> 09:40.530] [SPEAKER_06]: Is that Gila?
[09:40.650 --> 09:41.130] [SPEAKER_06]: Gila, go ahead.
[09:41.230 --> 09:42.050] [SPEAKER_07]: It's Gila's hand, yes.
[09:42.410 --> 09:47.090] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, we were actually just having this conversation in our home recently.
[09:47.090 --> 09:51.590] [SPEAKER_07]: We were at the cell phone store and, you know, we are a mixed marriage.
[09:51.590 --> 09:53.090] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm an iPhone user.
[09:53.230 --> 09:53.870] [SPEAKER_07]: Rob is not.
[09:54.270 --> 10:01.290] [SPEAKER_07]: And, um, I said, oh my goodness, there's a, an iPhone with a terabyte of storage.
[10:01.930 --> 10:04.130] [SPEAKER_07]: And Rob said, yeah, cause they're not expandable.
[10:04.330 --> 10:12.730] [SPEAKER_07]: But E, my question is what on earth do you need to have access to all the time that you're using almost a terabyte of data on your phone?
[10:12.810 --> 10:18.490] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's not, it's not my idea, but you know, I've been, I've been, uh, taking pictures and videos for many, many years.
[10:18.690 --> 10:23.730] [SPEAKER_06]: And I always, whenever I get a new phone, I copy everything over because, you know, I like to carry my entire life with me too.
[10:23.830 --> 10:26.450] [SPEAKER_06]: I have backups everywhere, but you know, I want to have that.
[10:26.550 --> 10:31.350] [SPEAKER_06]: I want to have access to it and it takes time to go through and decide what to delete and what not to delete.
[10:31.470 --> 10:36.090] [SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, it keeps getting bigger and bigger, but I figured, you know, phones keep getting more and more memory.
[10:36.310 --> 10:37.330] [SPEAKER_06]: So that wouldn't be an issue.
[10:37.450 --> 10:38.150] [SPEAKER_06]: And I was wrong.
[10:38.430 --> 10:39.510] [SPEAKER_06]: It is an issue.
[10:39.990 --> 10:40.450] [SPEAKER_06]: Kyle, go ahead.
[10:41.250 --> 10:41.570] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[10:41.570 --> 10:56.570] [SPEAKER_05]: I think also, um, your phone has taken over what in the past would have been a separate camera and it's added video, which you may not have been able to do with like a, a digital camera that you would have carried.
[10:56.690 --> 10:58.010] [SPEAKER_06]: We used to carry cameras around.
[10:58.210 --> 10:58.950] [SPEAKER_06]: Do you remember those days?
[10:59.170 --> 10:59.850] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, and that is...
[10:59.850 --> 11:00.850] [SPEAKER_06]: It was a separate device.
[11:01.090 --> 11:02.490] [SPEAKER_06]: People, people don't know this.
[11:02.650 --> 11:04.890] [SPEAKER_06]: They're a separate device that did not have a phone attached to it.
[11:04.950 --> 11:06.070] [SPEAKER_06]: You just use it to take pictures.
[11:06.570 --> 11:07.970] [SPEAKER_05]: It was an incredible time.
[11:08.030 --> 11:08.530] [SPEAKER_05]: And that was it.
[11:08.530 --> 11:28.950] [SPEAKER_05]: So that has been supplanted in large part for many people and the manufacturers count on this and adding the ability to expand has its inherent costs in producing these devices as well as in, um, making the software compatible with various forms of storage.
[11:28.950 --> 11:32.330] [SPEAKER_06]: Wait, I'm supposed to feel bad that it costs the manufacturers money to make the phone I want?
[11:32.330 --> 11:32.510] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm making up there.
[11:32.730 --> 11:33.730] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm paying for the phone.
[11:33.830 --> 11:34.390] [SPEAKER_06]: You can make...
[11:34.390 --> 11:34.750] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, okay.
[11:34.910 --> 11:35.570] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm just saying...
[11:35.570 --> 11:36.690] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm the one paying, not them.
[11:36.890 --> 11:37.090] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[11:37.170 --> 11:38.390] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a, it's a made up ration.
[11:38.390 --> 11:38.950] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a made up rationale, right?
[11:39.030 --> 11:39.270] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[11:39.270 --> 11:40.850] [SPEAKER_05]: They could make it any way they want.
[11:41.010 --> 11:42.650] [SPEAKER_05]: They could, like, make it into a hat.
[11:42.810 --> 11:44.570] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, you could wear your phone on your head.
[11:44.570 --> 11:45.410] [SPEAKER_06]: That's our society today.
[11:45.530 --> 11:47.050] [SPEAKER_06]: It's a whole bunch of made up rationales.
[11:47.250 --> 11:47.370] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[11:47.550 --> 11:48.310] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, for sure.
[11:48.510 --> 11:49.090] [SPEAKER_05]: For sure.
[11:49.690 --> 12:11.390] [SPEAKER_05]: But, uh, in any event, that usage is, is, uh, uh, such, is, is a lot more capable in effect as well, as this feature has been, um, a source of bandwidth for the carriers, like, people communicating and sharing photos much more readily.
[12:11.550 --> 12:15.090] [SPEAKER_05]: And, and people count on this a lot for the, for just everyday activity.
[12:15.430 --> 12:29.830] [SPEAKER_05]: I know a lot of, like, uh, uh, small businesses and individual contractors, you know, people use photos to reference all kinds of things in their course of operations.
[12:30.210 --> 12:38.310] [SPEAKER_05]: So, people relying on it more and the images and, and stuff being much more capable than what we ever would have carried in, in a small digital camera.
[12:38.390 --> 12:46.310] [SPEAKER_05]: So, all those advances, I think, have made it, uh, where a lot of this, uh, content resides.
[12:46.670 --> 12:54.030] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's, it's, it's increasingly, uh, matching the generations of the network as well.
[12:54.270 --> 13:07.290] [SPEAKER_05]: So, they're sort of urging you to use bandwidth and back the stuff up or, or otherwise exfiltrate it from your phone, either by perhaps connecting it to, oh no, a computer, if you even have one.
[13:07.510 --> 13:19.990] [SPEAKER_05]: And then the, the more mainstream alternative being these cloud systems where you're storing stuff and, uh, synchronizing it over your connectivity, whether that be Wi-Fi or cellular.
[13:19.990 --> 13:29.890] [SPEAKER_06]: And the reason I resist that is because, um, uh, you're, you're then, uh, susceptible to whatever security issues that service might have in the future.
[13:30.190 --> 13:34.330] [SPEAKER_05]: And we've had a long, long storied discussion about this.
[13:34.610 --> 13:36.390] [SPEAKER_06]: We read about this every week.
[13:36.510 --> 13:41.550] [SPEAKER_06]: Something else has been compromised and all this data is now, uh, uh, in the hands of somebody else.
[13:41.990 --> 13:51.930] [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, I really don't want my personal pictures and videos or whatever, anything of mine, uh, being entrusted to somebody else because I don't trust them.
[13:52.150 --> 13:57.210] [SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, if I, if I lose my phone or I don't put a strong enough password on my phone or something like that, that's on me.
[13:57.270 --> 14:08.730] [SPEAKER_06]: And I can accept that, but I don't like being pressured into having to, um, hand over everything, uh, to some other entity, particularly when it's an entity that has proven itself to be, uh, non-trustworthy.
[14:08.970 --> 14:09.650] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, Alex, go ahead.
[14:11.110 --> 14:19.110] [SPEAKER_04]: I, I think this is a, a, a massive problem that iPhone users suffer from quite, quite regularly, uh, you know, myself being one of them.
[14:20.370 --> 14:27.850] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'll tell you, you know, the iPhone does not necessarily make it easy for you to get your own data off of that phone and onto your own hard drive.
[14:27.990 --> 14:29.110] [SPEAKER_04]: I know there are ways to do it.
[14:29.170 --> 14:38.050] [SPEAKER_04]: And I've done this, especially backing up photos and whatnot, but regardless of that, I'm sure somebody will write it and say, I heard you say this and it's, you know, here's the way to do it.
[14:38.510 --> 14:39.330] [SPEAKER_04]: That's fine.
[14:39.570 --> 14:46.270] [SPEAKER_04]: But I, I find this, this whole issue of, um, the data that we carry around on us.
[14:46.430 --> 14:55.430] [SPEAKER_04]: So fascinating in so many ways, because we, we have evolved as beings over the last 30 years in some, I think, highly strange ways.
[14:55.610 --> 15:09.130] [SPEAKER_04]: But I remember back in the nineties when I was first in high school and then in college working for a software company and one of the programmers, really interesting dude, loved technology.
[15:09.130 --> 15:10.790] [SPEAKER_04]: He loved getting the latest thing.
[15:10.910 --> 15:15.670] [SPEAKER_04]: And he had this gadget, excuse me, it was a gadget that was a key chain.
[15:16.570 --> 15:25.730] [SPEAKER_04]: And amazingly, this key chain would plug into a computer and it allowed you to have eight megabytes of storage that you could take with you.
[15:26.330 --> 15:31.430] [SPEAKER_04]: Anywhere you wanted, you could have eight megs of data and it was on a key chain.
[15:31.710 --> 15:33.310] [SPEAKER_04]: And I thought this was the coolest thing.
[15:33.510 --> 15:34.990] [SPEAKER_04]: I said, Oh my God, this is incredible.
[15:35.290 --> 15:36.870] [SPEAKER_04]: This is going to be life changing.
[15:37.070 --> 15:40.590] [SPEAKER_04]: You can carry around a massive amount of data, eight megs.
[15:41.230 --> 15:47.490] [SPEAKER_04]: Now, uh, we don't leave the house unless we have half a terabyte of data on us at, at any day.
[15:47.510 --> 15:57.330] [SPEAKER_04]: It's really an extraordinary how we have changed as, as beings in, and, and data subjects over the last 30 years.
[15:57.330 --> 16:05.070] [SPEAKER_06]: But Alex, don't lessen the magic of that moment, because at that time, it was the coolest thing in the world to have that much memory at your fingertips.
[16:05.530 --> 16:10.130] [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, we're not looking back at a less, uh, you know, advanced culture back then.
[16:10.290 --> 16:16.310] [SPEAKER_06]: We, we, um, we had a different kind of technology and we appreciated that technology.
[16:16.310 --> 16:17.450] [SPEAKER_06]: I think we appreciated it more.
[16:17.570 --> 16:19.030] [SPEAKER_06]: We didn't take it for granted like we do now.
[16:19.150 --> 16:22.450] [SPEAKER_06]: So we made that eight, eight megabytes really count.
[16:22.450 --> 16:24.690] [SPEAKER_06]: And it, it really, it, it brought us something.
[16:26.050 --> 16:27.230] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it did.
[16:27.410 --> 16:30.870] [SPEAKER_04]: And I, the way I described it wasn't facetious at all.
[16:31.010 --> 16:33.130] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it was this amazing thing.
[16:33.410 --> 16:34.990] [SPEAKER_04]: It was, it was absolutely incredible.
[16:35.130 --> 16:45.910] [SPEAKER_04]: The whole idea that you can carry data around with you without carrying a massive hard drive with spinning parts and some kind of solid state drive that you plug into a computer was, was really incredible.
[16:46.810 --> 16:55.010] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, the other thing that I find is fascinating too, is that, you know, 30 years ago, we're doing largely the same things with computers that we're doing today.
[16:55.470 --> 16:56.910] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, most of us, right.
[16:56.970 --> 17:01.510] [SPEAKER_04]: Especially if we're, if we're lawyers, um, like, like I am now, I mean, you were doing the same thing.
[17:01.770 --> 17:06.250] [SPEAKER_04]: You're working in word documents and creating files that were essentially text files.
[17:06.810 --> 17:15.650] [SPEAKER_04]: Um, and so you could back then store a massive amount of data on an eight megabyte drive because the files weren't that big nowadays.
[17:15.650 --> 17:18.270] [SPEAKER_04]: I really don't understand why word files are so large.
[17:18.430 --> 17:20.830] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't understand why programs are so massive.
[17:21.230 --> 17:23.150] [SPEAKER_04]: We're still doing largely the same thing.
[17:23.390 --> 17:26.390] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a, you know, word is the spell checker and a grammar checker.
[17:26.610 --> 17:31.770] [SPEAKER_04]: What the hell else is it doing that requires gigs and gigs and gigs of my hard drive?
[17:32.230 --> 17:33.590] [SPEAKER_04]: It's, it's a mystery to me.
[17:33.730 --> 17:34.710] [SPEAKER_06]: And you know, it's funny.
[17:34.950 --> 17:36.690] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, uh, I've never used word.
[17:36.850 --> 17:41.430] [SPEAKER_06]: I I've always, um, pushed back against using, uh, that particular program.
[17:41.730 --> 17:43.550] [SPEAKER_06]: I, I never liked the way it operated.
[17:43.550 --> 17:53.250] [SPEAKER_06]: And I have to say, hey, and I'm, I'm, I'm letting out some, some personal information here by saying this to this day, I still use the same word processor I use back in the nineties.
[17:53.790 --> 17:54.950] [SPEAKER_06]: I think it was in the nineties.
[17:55.070 --> 18:01.130] [SPEAKER_06]: It's called word pro if anybody it's, I think it was made by Lotus or it was taken over by Lotus at one point, but it's, it's, it's simple.
[18:01.550 --> 18:03.290] [SPEAKER_06]: It does what I want it to do.
[18:03.950 --> 18:11.010] [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, since I edit a lot of things, you know, that's really, I don't want to go nuts with, uh, all kinds of gizmos and features.
[18:11.290 --> 18:21.470] [SPEAKER_06]: I want the basics and, and, you know, I've, I've used other, uh, other software and, um, it's like, they try to make it difficult to just do the basics.
[18:21.690 --> 18:34.050] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I noticed that in many, many aspects of the technological world where, um, there are so many choices that you wind up bogged down making the choices without actually doing the work.
[18:34.610 --> 18:42.010] [SPEAKER_06]: And sometimes I just like to open up a screen and start writing and not have to worry about all these different things going on.
[18:42.130 --> 18:50.550] [SPEAKER_06]: And like you say, using so much memory for something that really shouldn't take much memory at all, you know, words are the same size as they were back in the 1980s.
[18:50.990 --> 18:54.810] [SPEAKER_06]: So it shouldn't take up any more space, but, uh, yeah, it sure does.
[18:54.950 --> 18:56.470] [SPEAKER_06]: And it's not just word processors.
[18:56.490 --> 18:58.590] [SPEAKER_06]: It's, it's all kinds of things.
[18:58.870 --> 19:03.490] [SPEAKER_06]: So, um, simplicity doesn't always work, but sometimes it is the best choice.
[19:05.650 --> 19:16.250] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I, it just reminds me, it is tangential to what we're talking about, but I, I think, um, you know, worth mentioning semi, my, uh, oldest son is 11.
[19:16.590 --> 19:19.490] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, he loves older computers and things like that.
[19:19.610 --> 19:20.430] [SPEAKER_04]: I've mentioned this before.
[19:21.110 --> 19:22.390] [SPEAKER_04]: Loves learning about them.
[19:22.530 --> 19:30.010] [SPEAKER_04]: He loves to be inside a terminal session, like his dad was going to say, and he asked me the craziest question the other day.
[19:30.610 --> 19:40.610] [SPEAKER_04]: He said to me, you know, so daddy, when I'm looking at these old computers, I'm wondering why is there a separate box next to the computer?
[19:41.850 --> 19:43.670] [SPEAKER_04]: And I said, what do you mean next to the computer?
[19:43.830 --> 19:45.090] [SPEAKER_04]: What, what box are you talking about?
[19:45.170 --> 19:49.290] [SPEAKER_04]: He said, well, there's always some kind of like rectangular box or something that's next to the computer.
[19:49.530 --> 19:57.430] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I realized he was thinking of the computer as the monitor because he, he doesn't see anything else.
[19:57.530 --> 19:59.090] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he was born 11 years ago.
[19:59.270 --> 20:03.390] [SPEAKER_04]: And so he's just used to everything being baked into one flat screen.
[20:03.590 --> 20:05.350] [SPEAKER_04]: He's used to an iMac or something like that.
[20:05.450 --> 20:17.550] [SPEAKER_04]: He wasn't used to there being a tower with a three and a half inch floppy and a five and a quarter inch floppy, you know, and a massive hard drive crammed into that thing and expansion slots, you know, uh, he's a local bus.
[20:17.750 --> 20:21.370] [SPEAKER_04]: Like he was wondering what the hell the computer was plugged into.
[20:21.470 --> 20:25.370] [SPEAKER_04]: And I had to explain to him, I said, no, Sasha, to the computer was something different.
[20:25.550 --> 20:27.730] [SPEAKER_04]: That, that was, that is the computer, that box.
[20:27.950 --> 20:29.450] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what contains the motherboard.
[20:29.650 --> 20:30.930] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what contains the hard drive.
[20:31.050 --> 20:32.230] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what contains the CPU.
[20:32.750 --> 20:37.950] [SPEAKER_04]: And it was connected by a cable through your VGA card into the monitor.
[20:37.950 --> 20:41.450] [SPEAKER_04]: And it totally blew his mind that things were disconnected like that.
[20:41.610 --> 20:48.530] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you want to blow his mind even more, bring in a CRT instead of a flat screen, which is massive in size.
[20:48.790 --> 20:50.950] [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, tell him, yeah, that's, that's, that's just a monitor.
[20:51.330 --> 21:18.930] [SPEAKER_05]: I think part of these observations are like salient, uh, influences that the, uh, the design and, um, sort of user life cycle, uh, Apple has, uh, instituted, uh, and the impact therein of, of people experiencing it and, uh, using it with a wide mix of other technologies in their lives and,
[21:18.930 --> 21:25.910] [SPEAKER_05]: um, um, it pushing sort of what is adopted and what is used to the limits.
[21:25.910 --> 21:34.590] [SPEAKER_05]: In some cases, this was, um, a story in terms of, um, just kind of limiting craziness with, uh, Apple cabling.
[21:34.590 --> 21:57.330] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's how we, uh, they came to standardize the USB-C connection in, instead of allowing the market to be like inherently weird just for the business plan of one entity and this sort of common usability, common ability to get features like the idea that computers only come in like a one form.
[21:57.530 --> 22:04.490] [SPEAKER_05]: Part of that is the influence of that design and their, uh, model and these things like, yeah, is it expandable?
[22:04.630 --> 22:11.490] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that, that is, it's starting to feel like much more of a design and life cycle thing.
[22:11.710 --> 22:31.770] [SPEAKER_05]: And when you really take into account the cost of replacing devices and the sort of, uh, disposable nature that, that, uh, the territory, the disposable nature of it and that territory that it moves into, um, for consumers is, is a hassle because it makes it harder for them to use it when,
[22:31.870 --> 22:54.610] [SPEAKER_05]: when practically adopt adopting it, but it also, um, makes it hard for, I mean, and that's with, without, uh, alternatives or an abundance of alternatives that aren't, um, that don't have, uh, larger trade-offs and are convenient and just as affordable and,
[22:54.790 --> 23:04.650] [SPEAKER_05]: um, usable as what features Apple might want for their, uh, their sort of limited hardware or software, uh, features.
[23:04.790 --> 23:08.970] [SPEAKER_06]: I understand what you're talking about as far as cables and, and, uh, things that stop working.
[23:09.130 --> 23:24.530] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I get that if you're competing, you know, if it's two different standards, beta VHS, whatever, uh, you know, this isn't going to work in that, but when it's the same company and they introduce a new form of cable that makes, uh, your old system from the same company,
[23:24.690 --> 23:26.970] [SPEAKER_06]: no longer work or be compatible with the new one.
[23:27.150 --> 23:28.310] [SPEAKER_06]: I think that's really low.
[23:28.310 --> 23:41.690] [SPEAKER_06]: I think that's something that, um, uh, should not be permitted because backwards compatibility is, is so important for not alienating people, uh, and, um, for, for developing something better in, in, in the longterm.
[23:41.830 --> 23:43.950] [SPEAKER_06]: You don't just throw away your old customers.
[23:43.950 --> 23:52.670] [SPEAKER_06]: We're talking about Apple a lot, but, uh, this is increasingly becoming the default for, for all the big companies, Microsoft and Google, and they all seem to practice this now.
[23:52.790 --> 23:59.030] [SPEAKER_06]: It used to be, you know, Apple kind of was the leader in, um, just not treating its customers right.
[23:59.210 --> 24:01.010] [SPEAKER_06]: And yet somehow they, they keep coming back for more.
[24:01.530 --> 24:04.250] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, you have, you have an iPhone, right, Alex?
[24:06.470 --> 24:07.270] [SPEAKER_04]: I do.
[24:07.570 --> 24:07.710] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[24:08.150 --> 24:09.670] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I'm not, I'm not shaming.
[24:09.770 --> 24:10.270] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not shaming.
[24:10.610 --> 24:11.270] [SPEAKER_06]: It's okay.
[24:11.530 --> 24:12.530] [SPEAKER_06]: You don't have to hide your face.
[24:13.190 --> 24:18.070] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, but can I just ask how many different iPhones have you bought?
[24:19.310 --> 24:20.370] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh my God.
[24:20.650 --> 24:36.990] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, it's been a lot, but there was a big gap, I think, between the eight and perhaps the 13, I think I went, I went quite a while without upgrading my phone, uh, because I, I just stopped caring about what phone I had.
[24:37.130 --> 24:45.050] [SPEAKER_04]: So long, as long as it worked, um, and I could access my email and access the Internet, I really, really didn't care about it.
[24:45.630 --> 24:54.090] [SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, remember when the iPhone five and the six came out and people, I guess people still line up for these idiotic things, but it just seems less and less relevant.
[24:54.250 --> 24:56.570] [SPEAKER_04]: I remember the iPhone one, whatever it was called back then.
[24:56.670 --> 25:07.850] [SPEAKER_05]: Is there anything on that earlier handset, Alex, that was a feature that you no longer have, or was it always sort of as limited as we've characterized in the discussion?
[25:08.090 --> 25:14.030] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, did it have the ability to have an SD card or any kind of connector that you don't have now?
[25:14.030 --> 25:15.990] [SPEAKER_05]: Or is it pretty much the same MO?
[25:16.310 --> 25:19.310] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, it was pretty much the same MO.
[25:19.550 --> 25:29.150] [SPEAKER_04]: I honestly think the, the only difference in the evolution of the iPhones has been the processor speed, which always never seems fast enough for some reason.
[25:29.370 --> 25:29.810] [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no.
[25:29.830 --> 25:30.050] [SPEAKER_04]: Hold on.
[25:30.110 --> 25:32.050] [SPEAKER_06]: Let me correct you because this is true of all Apple products.
[25:32.130 --> 25:34.030] [SPEAKER_06]: It seems lightning fast at first.
[25:34.170 --> 25:38.630] [SPEAKER_06]: And then after a few months, it really seems to get slow and you want another one.
[25:38.670 --> 25:39.450] [SPEAKER_06]: You want a better one.
[25:40.210 --> 25:40.590] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[25:40.790 --> 25:40.930] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[25:41.050 --> 25:42.110] [SPEAKER_04]: It's something like that.
[25:42.230 --> 25:43.970] [SPEAKER_04]: It might have something to do with memory usage.
[25:43.970 --> 25:47.970] [SPEAKER_04]: Or just, I don't know, who knows if it just degrades, but it's, it's that.
[25:48.110 --> 25:52.730] [SPEAKER_04]: So there's the, the CPU, the processor speed, I think that is evolved and the cameras.
[25:53.010 --> 25:55.210] [SPEAKER_04]: They just keep adding cameras to these things.
[25:55.690 --> 25:56.470] [SPEAKER_04]: That, that's it.
[25:56.850 --> 26:06.850] [SPEAKER_04]: The other thing that I have noticed that really degrades and, and not such a long time is, are the, are the external speakers on an iPhone as well.
[26:07.050 --> 26:09.830] [SPEAKER_04]: They turn to garbage pretty, pretty quickly.
[26:10.070 --> 26:17.010] [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like it becomes really quite hard to hear when you're using a speakerphone after a year or something like that.
[26:17.110 --> 26:20.390] [SPEAKER_04]: When you get a new phone and you're speaking, you have it on speakers.
[26:20.390 --> 26:22.030] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh my God, I can hear people again.
[26:22.210 --> 26:23.010] [SPEAKER_04]: This, this is amazing.
[26:23.170 --> 26:24.790] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm, I use the speakerphone quite a lot.
[26:25.250 --> 26:27.230] [SPEAKER_04]: So that's an important feature to me.
[26:27.350 --> 26:34.070] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's something worth upgrade, but the cost of switching to an Android is, it's just too much for me.
[26:34.130 --> 26:34.950] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm, I'm too busy.
[26:35.130 --> 26:36.750] [SPEAKER_04]: I've got too many things going on.
[26:36.750 --> 26:36.970] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[26:36.970 --> 26:38.290] [SPEAKER_06]: So you're, you're too deep into it.
[26:38.450 --> 26:39.990] [SPEAKER_06]: You can't get out and go to Android.
[26:40.270 --> 26:40.630] [SPEAKER_04]: I can't.
[26:40.670 --> 26:40.930] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[26:40.970 --> 26:41.890] [SPEAKER_04]: I can, I can.
[26:42.010 --> 26:44.150] [SPEAKER_04]: I, you know, I'd, I'd have to quit something that I do.
[26:44.250 --> 26:47.990] [SPEAKER_04]: I'd have to like, stop, stop, uh, practicing law or... Well, yeah.
[26:47.990 --> 26:56.070] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, Alex, you laugh, but, uh, you know, you could have your legal career be on, on, uh, uh, you know, a Mac, uh, platform.
[26:56.490 --> 27:05.290] [SPEAKER_06]: And then if you want to say, pursue medicine, Android is, is, is, is wide open for you, you know, and you don't have to move all, all this stuff around and disrupt your life.
[27:05.510 --> 27:05.510] Yeah.
[27:05.630 --> 27:08.770] [SPEAKER_04]: I guess I can just migrate to, uh, to WordPro or something.
[27:08.890 --> 27:11.750] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, hey, don't, don't knock it till you've tried it.
[27:11.850 --> 27:14.630] [SPEAKER_06]: It's, it's, you know, it really, it, it does the job.
[27:14.810 --> 27:15.350] [SPEAKER_06]: It really does.
[27:15.590 --> 27:18.290] [SPEAKER_04]: I still, I still miss WordPerfect 6.1.
[27:18.690 --> 27:19.050] [SPEAKER_04]: WordPerfect.
[27:19.210 --> 27:19.410] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[27:19.810 --> 27:24.110] [SPEAKER_06]: I did use, I did dabble in other ones and, um, yeah, but that's my favorite.
[27:24.250 --> 27:24.850] [SPEAKER_06]: That's my favorite.
[27:25.430 --> 27:29.990] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, you know, I want to say something good about an Apple product and that's iTunes.
[27:30.710 --> 27:34.590] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, because I use iTunes, I use iTunes every day and I find it to be fantastic.
[27:34.590 --> 27:35.930] [SPEAKER_06]: I, I, I really like it.
[27:35.930 --> 27:38.290] [SPEAKER_06]: Now I should point out a caveat here.
[27:38.590 --> 27:40.010] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not using it on a Mac.
[27:40.210 --> 27:42.510] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm using iTunes for Windows.
[27:43.530 --> 27:46.670] [SPEAKER_06]: I know that, um, uh, it's no longer supported.
[27:46.830 --> 27:48.970] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think it's supported on Macs either anymore.
[27:49.170 --> 27:50.010] [SPEAKER_06]: That's the thing.
[27:50.130 --> 27:55.290] [SPEAKER_06]: You, you, you get the software and they just decide they're going to give up on it and leave you high and dry.
[27:55.290 --> 27:56.010] [SPEAKER_06]: But okay.
[27:56.130 --> 28:03.070] [SPEAKER_06]: So my secret is, um, I, I keep my, my record library on this, um, uh, copy of, um, of iTunes.
[28:03.690 --> 28:12.170] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and it's, um, it's running on Windows and it's, in fact, it's not only running on Windows, it's running on Windows XP.
[28:12.910 --> 28:13.470] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[28:13.790 --> 28:19.810] [SPEAKER_06]: It's running on Windows XP, not connected to the Internet, not subject to automatic updates or anything like that.
[28:20.210 --> 28:23.030] [SPEAKER_06]: And it's iTunes eight.
[28:23.650 --> 28:27.510] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know what number iTunes is up to now, but it's a lot bigger than eight.
[28:27.890 --> 28:30.930] [SPEAKER_06]: Let me just tell you, this works.
[28:30.930 --> 28:31.550] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[28:31.690 --> 28:37.410] [SPEAKER_06]: I, you know, I can see what song I want to play, what album, what artist I can sort however I want.
[28:37.410 --> 28:39.090] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't get any advertising.
[28:39.370 --> 28:40.710] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't get nagged.
[28:40.810 --> 28:48.790] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I hear today from people who use the latest, um, uh, iTunes version is that Apple actually goes in and changes the data.
[28:48.830 --> 28:54.370] [SPEAKER_06]: Sometimes if they feel that you listed a song wrong in your own library, they will change it.
[28:54.930 --> 29:06.310] [SPEAKER_06]: And I've, I've, I've seen testimonials online of people who have spent many hours, um, sorting things the way they want only to find it undone in the morning because Apple decided to do something.
[29:07.010 --> 29:10.050] [SPEAKER_06]: This is a level of hell I choose not to go into.
[29:10.270 --> 29:18.470] [SPEAKER_06]: And that's why I believe we should all be able, if we want to, to run old software on old systems, if it does what we want it to do.
[29:18.570 --> 29:30.690] [SPEAKER_06]: And to this day, I haven't found anything that equals that that equals iTunes eight running on windows XP for simplicity, uh, for, for not barraging me with ads, uh, for not messing with my own data.
[29:30.910 --> 29:33.990] [SPEAKER_06]: If, if, if there are alternatives out there, love to hear about them.
[29:34.070 --> 29:55.390] [SPEAKER_06]: But every time I take somebody up on, um, on, um, uh, exploring something different, it breaks something, something gets broken in the process or something is no longer, um, uh, you know, able to be listened to, you know, it's, it, it doesn't work anymore because that standard no longer exists or something silly like that.
[29:55.390 --> 29:57.050] [SPEAKER_06]: You don't have to live that way.
[29:58.010 --> 29:58.530] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[29:58.530 --> 30:17.270] [SPEAKER_05]: I think, uh, it's important to run software that works and don't, uh, I guess don't, uh, well, I guess updates are overrated, you know, they're, they're not always, uh, not all types of updates are overrated, but you gotta be pretty careful.
[30:17.530 --> 30:35.350] [SPEAKER_05]: And, and especially like with big software manufacturers and a lot of the consumer stuff that's, that's in the news now, it, it really makes, makes me, it kind of heartens me, makes me warms my heart to hear using, uh, stuff that old and in ways that you,
[30:35.470 --> 30:40.790] [SPEAKER_05]: you, that work for you and that are, um, you know, enough to do the job.
[30:41.030 --> 30:55.470] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's, I think what we do, we like, we get kind of enticed by new features and we forget that what we were doing and, and what the practical usage of it actually wasn't relying on those in a lot of cases.
[30:55.590 --> 30:56.750] [SPEAKER_06]: Look, I know I'm going to get mocked.
[30:56.830 --> 30:58.210] [SPEAKER_06]: I know I'm going to get ridiculed.
[30:58.350 --> 31:05.110] [SPEAKER_06]: The emails are going to start pouring in about how I use old technology and won't adapt to the times and all that kind of nonsense.
[31:05.430 --> 31:13.690] [SPEAKER_06]: But look, if you have something that works, um, you know, can you not say at a certain point, okay, this is what I want.
[31:13.690 --> 31:16.550] [SPEAKER_06]: This particular machine running this particular software.
[31:16.710 --> 31:16.970] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.
[31:17.050 --> 31:17.370] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm done.
[31:17.590 --> 31:18.850] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't need more updates.
[31:18.990 --> 31:20.230] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not connecting it to the net.
[31:20.330 --> 31:24.730] [SPEAKER_06]: So there's, there's no risk of something coming in and infecting my machine.
[31:25.010 --> 31:29.570] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm careful with what I connected to and, uh, it's doing what I wanted to do.
[31:29.690 --> 31:30.990] [SPEAKER_06]: So why do I have to change?
[31:31.150 --> 31:36.130] [SPEAKER_06]: Because somebody decided to improve their code and in the process, break something of mine.
[31:36.770 --> 31:37.370] [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead, Gila.
[31:38.130 --> 31:41.150] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, did you ever have this one connected to the Internet?
[31:41.810 --> 31:42.590] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, or has it?
[31:42.890 --> 31:43.910] [SPEAKER_06]: Gosh, I guess so.
[31:44.110 --> 31:45.270] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, probably at some point.
[31:46.650 --> 31:53.130] [SPEAKER_07]: I was thinking back on the, the U2 incident, uh, which was 10 years ago now.
[31:53.990 --> 31:56.510] [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, do you remember what I'm talking about?
[31:56.870 --> 31:58.190] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, is it the airplane?
[31:58.350 --> 31:58.990] [SPEAKER_06]: Is it the band?
[31:59.150 --> 32:01.530] [SPEAKER_06]: Is it the Negativland, uh, uh, song or?
[32:01.850 --> 32:02.530] [SPEAKER_06]: I do.
[32:02.750 --> 32:03.270] [SPEAKER_04]: The band.
[32:03.390 --> 32:04.590] [SPEAKER_04]: Let me, let me, let me guess.
[32:04.770 --> 32:06.090] [SPEAKER_04]: Can I, can I take a guess here?
[32:06.450 --> 32:06.730] [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[32:07.010 --> 32:16.390] [SPEAKER_04]: Um, the U2 incident perhaps is when I tune essentially dropped U2 songs onto every single person's device that was using it.
[32:16.530 --> 32:17.350] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, and you can't delete it.
[32:17.490 --> 32:25.150] [SPEAKER_04]: I still have those, I still have those goddamn songs on my phone and they drive me crazy when they start playing.
[32:25.150 --> 32:26.070] [SPEAKER_06]: So wait, let me understand.
[32:26.190 --> 32:29.050] [SPEAKER_06]: You cannot delete this music from your, from your phone.
[32:29.550 --> 32:31.350] [SPEAKER_07]: And good Lord, I have tried.
[32:31.970 --> 32:36.790] [SPEAKER_07]: And the way that, again, I'm an iPhone user, shame away.
[32:37.330 --> 32:42.870] [SPEAKER_07]: There is, you know, the Apple music, which they switched over from iTunes and now they can switch versions of things.
[32:42.910 --> 32:46.770] [SPEAKER_07]: And this is how we got down that whole rabbit hole of not knowing how to download music onto my phone.
[32:47.750 --> 32:52.090] [SPEAKER_07]: We're not going back there, but the U2 album, what is it called?
[32:52.370 --> 32:58.470] [SPEAKER_07]: Songs of Innocence just showed up in every single person's Apple music.
[32:58.970 --> 33:01.030] [SPEAKER_07]: And to this day, it is there.
[33:01.210 --> 33:07.070] [SPEAKER_07]: 10 years later, it gets precedence over songs I actually like, over songs I chose.
[33:07.390 --> 33:13.170] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, it, it automatically, it's the most annoying, not the most annoying thing, but it's right up there.
[33:13.310 --> 33:13.770] [SPEAKER_06]: It's up there.
[33:13.910 --> 33:15.610] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's, it's way up there.
[33:15.690 --> 33:25.030] [SPEAKER_07]: So I'm just guessing that you have had this build offline for at least the last 10 years if you didn't wind up with U2 album Songs of Innocence in it.
[33:25.150 --> 33:27.350] [SPEAKER_06]: No, I, I have nothing like that on that system.
[33:27.550 --> 33:29.110] [SPEAKER_06]: I can delete whatever I want.
[33:29.330 --> 33:31.050] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I can copy whatever I want.
[33:31.050 --> 33:32.350] [SPEAKER_06]: Look, everything is MP3.
[33:32.990 --> 33:37.970] [SPEAKER_06]: So, uh, not this ridiculous Apple format that has all kinds of copyright issues.
[33:38.290 --> 33:41.830] [SPEAKER_06]: No, I decide where I want to copy my audio files, period.
[33:42.230 --> 33:43.250] [SPEAKER_06]: That's how it should be.
[33:43.370 --> 33:44.350] [SPEAKER_06]: That's how it used to be.
[33:44.910 --> 33:48.530] [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, we need to stop accepting that, um, it should be any other way.
[33:49.370 --> 33:50.710] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, unless we want it that way.
[33:50.810 --> 33:53.770] [SPEAKER_06]: And then, yeah, it's a choice, but, uh, it shouldn't be rammed down our throats.
[33:54.150 --> 34:01.490] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, on this note, there's another story that, uh, didn't annoy me nearly as much as, um, the one about keeping your, your, uh, smartphone safe during the heat.
[34:01.630 --> 34:07.270] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, it's that flip phone sales are surging as, uh, people seek connection without distraction.
[34:08.390 --> 34:09.450] [SPEAKER_06]: This is good.
[34:09.650 --> 34:10.230] [SPEAKER_06]: I like this.
[34:10.310 --> 34:12.450] [SPEAKER_06]: And it's not because I'm just embracing old technology.
[34:12.450 --> 34:17.950] [SPEAKER_06]: It's because I'm embracing choice and, um, and, and not mass stupidity or hypnosis.
[34:18.650 --> 34:19.650] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, yeah.
[34:19.810 --> 34:21.170] [SPEAKER_06]: So flip phones are having a moment.
[34:21.450 --> 34:30.290] [SPEAKER_06]: People are snatching up those basic clamshell throwbacks for the early two thousands, uh, faster than a bag of discounted Reese's the day after Halloween.
[34:30.290 --> 34:31.270] [SPEAKER_06]: What am I reading from?
[34:31.350 --> 34:32.790] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm reading from, uh, USA today.
[34:32.950 --> 34:33.090] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[34:33.250 --> 34:34.390] [SPEAKER_06]: That explains the tone.
[34:34.590 --> 34:36.870] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, the reasons are simple.
[34:37.010 --> 34:43.250] [SPEAKER_06]: We've burned out on our smartphones, social media, and passively allowing years of our lives to melt the way mindlessly stuck on screens.
[34:43.990 --> 34:44.470] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[34:44.630 --> 34:45.330] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, okay, fine.
[34:45.630 --> 34:50.090] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, look, smartphones, uh, they're useful for certain things.
[34:50.090 --> 34:58.570] [SPEAKER_06]: They're very useful, but having them all the time is detrimental to our health, to our, our, uh, mental ability to our safety.
[34:58.750 --> 35:03.030] [SPEAKER_06]: Even, you know, if you're driving, uh, and using a smartphone, it's a lot more dangerous.
[35:03.030 --> 35:20.430] [SPEAKER_06]: And if you're using a flip phone and just chatting with somebody or something like that, um, and my idea, you know, people who are concerned about their kids using smartphones at school or teachers that don't like that, let's just, you know, make it standard in schools that kids can only have flip phones.
[35:20.630 --> 35:23.950] [SPEAKER_06]: It'll, it'll, you know, boost the flip phone industry like you wouldn't believe.
[35:24.450 --> 35:29.270] [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, kids will stay safe from, from the addiction of smartphones in school, at least.
[35:29.890 --> 35:34.250] [SPEAKER_06]: And, um, I don't know that your kids will be able to be reached in case of an emergency.
[35:35.170 --> 35:37.650] [SPEAKER_06]: So, uh, that's something worth considering, Rob.
[35:38.790 --> 35:53.110] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's, this is funny to think about because I remember, you know, the clamshell flip phone era, or as they now call it, uh, feature phone, um, which is a fun name, considering that you're, the selling point that is, is it has far fewer features than a smartphone,
[35:53.330 --> 35:56.850] [SPEAKER_01]: but, um, you know, thinking of what a smartphone is now.
[35:57.090 --> 36:06.090] [SPEAKER_01]: And when I was on a flip phone, what my, my modern smartphone is something that I, you know, probably would have, uh, paid quite a lot of money for if I had that much.
[36:06.410 --> 36:07.590] [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, it would have been amazing.
[36:07.770 --> 36:14.030] [SPEAKER_01]: And now it's this mundane thing that I don't use, you know, a fraction of the, the potential of, uh, most of the time when it's in my pocket.
[36:14.310 --> 36:31.410] [SPEAKER_01]: But the idea that, uh, there are now young people, um, rebelling against their parents' generation and not wanting to be connected to social media, to the news, to all the other stuff that's going on online 24 seven, um, at every, you know, moment of their lives.
[36:31.830 --> 36:37.390] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, this is, I think social sociologically, uh, a very interesting thing to think about.
[36:37.550 --> 36:39.110] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's, you know, that school of thought.
[36:39.250 --> 36:49.790] [SPEAKER_01]: And then there's the other school of thought among young people who do use smartphones that actually making phone calls on it is something that they rarely ever do because it's just about going online, communicating, texting, you know, mailing, whatever,
[36:50.070 --> 36:52.030] [SPEAKER_01]: and, uh, using social media.
[36:52.030 --> 36:56.090] [SPEAKER_01]: But if you actually call them and ring their phone, they'll, they'll act like you're intruding.
[36:57.630 --> 37:09.470] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I was, well, first of all, my first question was, we are talking about like a flip phone, which I think people refer to as a feature phone, as opposed to a dumb phone, which is the other thing.
[37:09.570 --> 37:12.190] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, you know, that's a, you don't want to, oh, hey, I bought a dumb phone.
[37:12.310 --> 37:13.230] [SPEAKER_07]: No, you're not going to say that.
[37:13.670 --> 37:23.270] [SPEAKER_07]: But, um, I did want to make sure we were talking about that kind of like old school flippy phone and not the new foldable smartphone, which is a whole other category.
[37:23.270 --> 37:25.230] [SPEAKER_06]: No, I'm not even thinking about that.
[37:26.170 --> 37:33.590] [SPEAKER_07]: But the thing I was thinking about though, was back in the day when I had, you know, my Motorola razor flippy, whatever.
[37:33.890 --> 37:36.630] [SPEAKER_07]: And I, I bought the Motorola, what was it called?
[37:36.890 --> 37:40.350] [SPEAKER_07]: The juke or something, because it had space for 36 songs on it.
[37:40.410 --> 37:41.290] [SPEAKER_07]: And I was very excited.
[37:41.950 --> 37:52.310] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, but as a person who gets lost a lot, having a GPS system in my pocket, I find incredibly helpful.
[37:52.750 --> 37:59.230] [SPEAKER_07]: Because, you know, thinking about when, at the top of the show, we were talking about this, if you wanted to take pictures, you used to have to carry around a camera.
[37:59.650 --> 38:03.310] [SPEAKER_07]: If you got lost, you needed to carry around an external GPS system.
[38:03.830 --> 38:11.790] [SPEAKER_07]: I know that there are a lot of things that the smartphone era has made worse, or more annoying, or more problematic.
[38:12.030 --> 38:21.630] [SPEAKER_07]: But there are some things it has made better, like always having the opportunity to get to where I'm going in my pocket.
[38:21.630 --> 38:33.150] [SPEAKER_06]: But, but Gila, um, those, those things, even back then, were new, you know, when I was growing up, you know, I, I didn't, um, have the ability to, uh, be told where to go.
[38:33.330 --> 38:39.270] [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't have the ability to take a picture whenever I wanted to, I'd have to, you know, make a special trip and bring a camera with me to do that.
[38:39.610 --> 38:42.950] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, so we got used to these new features as being normal.
[38:43.550 --> 38:50.570] [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, and now I think we believe that we have to have smartphones in order to have those features without having to carry other devices.
[38:50.770 --> 39:04.810] [SPEAKER_06]: We could just not carry the other devices or have the smartphone and, uh, learn skills that we used to always have, such as knowing how to get around, learning how to get around on our own and, um, saying, Hey, that, that would make a good picture.
[39:04.950 --> 39:07.790] [SPEAKER_06]: I'll be sure to bring my camera next time or something like that.
[39:08.010 --> 39:09.950] [SPEAKER_06]: Look, I'm not saying this is how people should live.
[39:10.050 --> 39:15.570] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm just saying, you know, you, you are not as beholden to your smartphone as you might be told that you are.
[39:15.990 --> 39:26.210] [SPEAKER_06]: And, um, it's good to just kind of not have it sometimes or have it in your pocket for, um, you know, for backups or emergencies or whatever, and just see how you do without it, you know, at least for a while.
[39:26.370 --> 39:27.010] [SPEAKER_06]: Alex, go ahead.
[39:29.190 --> 39:34.710] [SPEAKER_04]: Coincidentally, about two weeks ago, I bought a flip phone and it's pretty awesome.
[39:34.930 --> 39:36.410] [SPEAKER_04]: I, it wasn't for myself.
[39:36.410 --> 39:42.510] [SPEAKER_04]: It was actually for a colleague, uh, of mine in London who for various reasons needed a phone number in the United States.
[39:43.230 --> 39:51.410] [SPEAKER_04]: So I went, uh, to a place on 28th street, one of these kind of small cellular places that, you know, used to unlock phones and various things.
[39:51.570 --> 39:59.070] [SPEAKER_04]: And I said, yeah, I'm looking for a cheap flip phone, something like that, that will just, you know, and a SIM card that will get me a U.S. number.
[39:59.490 --> 40:01.030] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't need a calling plan.
[40:01.030 --> 40:07.990] [SPEAKER_04]: It can be, and I think for about 50 or 60 bucks, I left with a phone and I went back to my office.
[40:08.170 --> 40:10.830] [SPEAKER_04]: I fired the thing up, works perfectly.
[40:11.290 --> 40:12.550] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's pretty awesome.
[40:12.550 --> 40:16.970] [SPEAKER_04]: I got to tell you, uh, I'm, I'm almost jealous of this, this flip phone that I have on my desk.
[40:17.150 --> 40:19.730] [SPEAKER_04]: It's clamshell flip phone, just like your old Motorola razor.
[40:20.370 --> 40:30.250] [SPEAKER_04]: Um, and the interesting thing about it, I thought this was really fascinating is, um, it's, it's a newer, but retro designed flip phone.
[40:30.390 --> 40:32.370] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't even remember who makes it.
[40:32.430 --> 40:37.850] [SPEAKER_04]: It might be Motorola, but it, um, it actually still does connect to the Internet there.
[40:37.850 --> 40:39.630] [SPEAKER_04]: You can still connect to Wi-Fi.
[40:40.050 --> 40:45.010] [SPEAKER_04]: There's no, you 5g service for it, but it, you can connect it to Wi-Fi.
[40:45.450 --> 40:48.030] [SPEAKER_04]: So it can be connected to the Internet in some respects.
[40:48.290 --> 41:00.570] [SPEAKER_04]: It does have some apps and things that you can download if you want to use GPS, et cetera, but it would be incredibly annoying to try to use something like Facebook or surf the web or do too much texting from this phone.
[41:00.930 --> 41:05.830] [SPEAKER_04]: So in that sense, I think it, I feel like it, it does fulfill almost all of the needs.
[41:05.950 --> 41:07.890] [SPEAKER_04]: You have some Internet access when you need it.
[41:08.290 --> 41:13.110] [SPEAKER_04]: Um, you can use GPS if you need it, but it's it's, it's a small phone.
[41:13.270 --> 41:23.250] [SPEAKER_04]: It's not going to be there vying for your attention, constantly buzzing, you know, getting LinkedIn notifications because some idiot that you've never met has reposted something.
[41:23.910 --> 41:27.050] [SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah, so it's, uh, it, I thought it was, it's pretty cool.
[41:27.270 --> 41:27.890] [SPEAKER_04]: It's pretty neat.
[41:28.130 --> 41:29.130] [SPEAKER_04]: And I love the idea.
[41:29.930 --> 41:41.750] [SPEAKER_06]: The fact that, uh, it makes using Facebook a pain in the ass, that is incentive enough for me because I will be discouraged from using it as I feel many people should be because it wastes their time.
[41:41.890 --> 41:45.750] [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm reading here where people spend nine hours a day on their smartphones.
[41:46.030 --> 41:47.190] [SPEAKER_06]: Look, we're not the problem.
[41:47.270 --> 41:59.210] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think anybody here, uh, I, I think we all have a good discipline as far as how often we use these devices, but a lot of people are, are pretty tied to their smartphones and to their detriment.
[41:59.510 --> 42:00.830] [SPEAKER_06]: It's, it's, it's not healthy.
[42:00.950 --> 42:03.630] [SPEAKER_06]: It's not helping the way they, they think it is.
[42:04.690 --> 42:05.250] [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[42:05.250 --> 42:05.350] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[42:05.890 --> 42:15.550] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, another thing that this just reminded me of is a bit of a trip down memory lane too, in terms of smartphones and how they changed us in, in many ways.
[42:15.830 --> 42:32.130] [SPEAKER_04]: I recently had occasion to, uh, very unfortunately go to a funeral of a dear friend of mine who, um, yeah, he, he passed away far too, far too young and was, uh, uh, one of the first people, one of my first friends from junior high school.
[42:33.030 --> 42:47.450] [SPEAKER_04]: And on that occasion, I wound up actually taking the train out, uh, to Long Island with my wife and, uh, my ex-girlfriend from high school, like my first girlfriend from high school.
[42:47.670 --> 42:50.270] [SPEAKER_04]: And I had these, these weird memories kind of flowing back.
[42:50.310 --> 42:56.210] [SPEAKER_04]: It was also weird to be, uh, you know, sitting on the Long Island railroad with your first girlfriend and your last girlfriend, right?
[42:56.270 --> 42:58.190] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, your wife, which is kind of a neat thing.
[42:58.670 --> 43:02.550] [SPEAKER_04]: But I had the, these weird memories flooding back to me of high school.
[43:03.190 --> 43:13.990] [SPEAKER_04]: And the fact that my ex-girlfriend and I, you know, we were in different classes and when we used to pass each other in the hallways, we would exchange notes, you know, these handwritten notes.
[43:14.330 --> 43:16.210] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, do you remember doing this in high school?
[43:16.370 --> 43:19.630] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's how you communicated with people because there was no other way.
[43:19.730 --> 43:20.790] [SPEAKER_06]: Why wouldn't you just talk to them?
[43:21.550 --> 43:25.750] [SPEAKER_04]: Because you didn't have enough time to have a full on conversation while you were changing classes.
[43:25.750 --> 43:28.610] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I also didn't have that much to say to people I'm just passing by.
[43:28.690 --> 43:29.450] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to see them later.
[43:29.670 --> 43:32.110] [SPEAKER_06]: So, uh, you know, I, I appreciate what you're saying though.
[43:32.270 --> 43:34.530] [SPEAKER_06]: It's a, it's an old, old way of doing things.
[43:34.770 --> 43:36.670] [SPEAKER_04]: It was an old fashioned way of communicating.
[43:36.910 --> 43:41.310] [SPEAKER_04]: And I had this memory of this, uh, this diskette box.
[43:41.410 --> 43:47.130] [SPEAKER_04]: It was a five and a quarter diskette box of all of the notes that my ex, my first girlfriend had given to me.
[43:47.230 --> 43:48.870] [SPEAKER_04]: And I saved this for a long time.
[43:49.010 --> 43:59.070] [SPEAKER_04]: I have no idea where the hell it is now, of course, but, uh, that type of thing never happens anymore because these kids, even if they are using flip phones these days, they're still going to have the ability to text each other.
[43:59.210 --> 44:01.170] [SPEAKER_04]: There's always a way to communicate with somebody else.
[44:01.430 --> 44:07.050] [SPEAKER_04]: So this whole idea of passing notes in between classes is completely obsolete.
[44:07.210 --> 44:15.250] [SPEAKER_04]: Now I'm, I'm really curious as to whether kids still do pass notes in some way or another, or if that's just totally gone.
[44:15.430 --> 44:19.070] [SPEAKER_06]: Did you ever have the teacher say, do you want to share this note with the whole class?
[44:19.150 --> 44:19.890] [SPEAKER_06]: Did that ever happen to you?
[44:19.990 --> 44:20.490] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, of course.
[44:20.650 --> 44:20.790] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[44:20.970 --> 44:21.290] [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[44:21.530 --> 44:22.210] [SPEAKER_04]: It never happened to me.
[44:22.330 --> 44:24.390] [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, I'm not sure I ever passed a note, to be honest.
[44:24.650 --> 44:30.570] [SPEAKER_06]: And it's kind of weird how you took all your notes and stored them in a diskette box, which is kind of like, you know, the future.
[44:31.090 --> 44:34.830] [SPEAKER_06]: So it's like you're struggling between two worlds there, but that's interesting.
[44:35.010 --> 44:35.310] [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead, Kyle.
[44:35.670 --> 44:46.090] [SPEAKER_05]: You should scan those and actually put them onto like a thumb drive just for your own reference, like digitize it and, uh, keep it in a, another form.
[44:46.410 --> 44:47.850] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm just really present to you.
[44:47.890 --> 44:59.290] [SPEAKER_05]: I, I like the idea that, um, people are resisting what, what influenced the sort of, uh, dominant designs have had.
[44:59.330 --> 45:10.010] [SPEAKER_05]: And it doesn't surprise me one bit that some of these, uh, old school manufacturers that made a lot of the phones were talking about back when, you know, before a lot of the smartness was around and on the scene.
[45:10.390 --> 45:38.710] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, they're getting in on re-releasing versions that have a good mix of features and it, it actually speaks to what the like iPhone and that, that, uh, uh, form factor coming out in 2008, what that did, um, it, it kind of reflects that that was the confluence of all the other design features in mobile handsets before that.
[45:39.290 --> 45:51.510] [SPEAKER_05]: And then they like kind of minimal, like reduced it and condensed it and minimalized the whole lot of stuff to fit sort of a new paradigm for features and, and, and stuff.
[45:51.650 --> 46:07.690] [SPEAKER_05]: And we're all sort of the, the trick was we came, we came back, kept coming back to them as though that's where the innovation came from, but everything they put into that first iPhone came from other stuff that was going on in the market and other behaviors that people were,
[46:07.870 --> 46:13.410] [SPEAKER_05]: that they were, um, uh, engaging in with what devices were available.
[46:13.630 --> 46:19.550] [SPEAKER_05]: And so I just, I like the idea that people are just digging deep, getting weird with whatever handsets they use.
[46:19.610 --> 46:37.090] [SPEAKER_05]: And don't forget about, um, accessories like Bluetooth always use like hands-free, turn that stuff on, especially if you're using these computers in vehicles and stuff and, uh, try to get away from having it out all the time and getting dusty and having the speakers not work like Alex's phone.
[46:37.290 --> 46:52.510] [SPEAKER_05]: But, um, but basically, um, I'm, I'm really interested in this idea of us individuals deciding what to do with the phones and making our own sorts of handsets as all of this stuff gets smaller and smaller.
[46:52.790 --> 47:06.790] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, we can kind of make up what's on trend in places like the classroom and in, uh, the wider world and, and, uh, and instead of just looking to these main manufacturers for the latest and greatest, that's not where it comes from anyway.
[47:06.950 --> 47:11.150] [SPEAKER_05]: It's, it's how it's from the people is from what people like and are comfortable with.
[47:11.470 --> 47:13.430] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, we've had quite a conversation here.
[47:13.470 --> 47:15.230] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, it's going on for a long time.
[47:15.410 --> 47:18.390] [SPEAKER_06]: I just want to, um, uh, turn it over to listeners for, for a moment.
[47:19.010 --> 47:24.670] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, we have, uh, some, some email to our email address, oth@2600.com.
[47:25.350 --> 47:31.590] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, this, um, uh, is concerning our, um, conversation about advertising on YouTube.
[47:31.590 --> 47:34.690] [SPEAKER_06]: We had a couple of weeks ago or that we're having an ongoing basis.
[47:34.870 --> 47:45.170] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and this, uh, unsigned listener says the main difference with off the hook and YouTube is that you pay YouTube, you get rid of the ads and off the hook keeps nagging you about pledging every episode, no matter what.
[47:45.790 --> 47:52.290] [SPEAKER_06]: And of course they say they're kidding, but it raises a good point because a lot of people do complain about that and say that we're constantly asking for support.
[47:52.410 --> 47:53.930] [SPEAKER_06]: But let me explain the difference.
[47:54.330 --> 47:59.310] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, we are not, um, um, uh, airing advertisements.
[47:59.470 --> 48:03.630] [SPEAKER_06]: And the reason we're not airing advertisers is because our listeners are our sponsors.
[48:03.930 --> 48:06.270] [SPEAKER_06]: They're the only sponsors we will ever have.
[48:06.510 --> 48:08.330] [SPEAKER_06]: We're a non-commercial radio station.
[48:08.490 --> 48:12.570] [SPEAKER_06]: We can have conversations like this and on a commercial radio station.
[48:12.950 --> 48:15.550] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, what if, uh, what if Apple was one of the advertisers?
[48:15.550 --> 48:20.290] [SPEAKER_06]: Could we have talked about anything we just talked about over the last 45 minutes or so?
[48:20.490 --> 48:21.310] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think so.
[48:21.750 --> 48:23.030] [SPEAKER_06]: It's, it's freedom of speech.
[48:23.190 --> 48:24.430] [SPEAKER_06]: Sometimes you'll hear things you agree with.
[48:24.530 --> 48:27.350] [SPEAKER_06]: Sometimes you'll hear, hear things that you don't agree with or that annoy you.
[48:27.710 --> 48:34.710] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, but the important thing is that it's a forum for speech to be heard for you listeners to be heard as you have just been heard now.
[48:35.350 --> 48:48.250] [SPEAKER_06]: And with that, I would like to remind people that the only way this, this place continues to exist as it has since 1960 is for you to give a call to 212-209-2950, pledge whatever you can afford.
[48:48.550 --> 48:50.190] [SPEAKER_06]: You can pledge on a monthly basis.
[48:50.190 --> 48:51.830] [SPEAKER_06]: You can make a one-time pledge.
[48:51.830 --> 48:53.170] [SPEAKER_06]: You can do all sorts of things.
[48:53.330 --> 49:00.770] [SPEAKER_06]: But the important thing is that you're pledging for 99.5 FM to remain on the air and broadcasting non-commercial content.
[49:01.770 --> 49:06.590] [SPEAKER_06]: You can also go to the web page, give2wbai.org.
[49:06.590 --> 49:08.990] [SPEAKER_06]: That's give2wbai.org.
[49:09.410 --> 49:28.450] [SPEAKER_06]: For pledges of $150 or more, there's a thank you gift that is basically all of the shows of Off The Hook from 1988 to the end of 2023 on one flash drive or thumb drive or whatever you call it.
[49:28.790 --> 49:32.310] [SPEAKER_06]: That's for pledges of 150 or more.
[49:32.310 --> 49:36.330] [SPEAKER_06]: The operators will be able to tell you about that or you'll see it on the website.
[49:36.530 --> 49:42.570] [SPEAKER_06]: But the important thing is to pledge to the radio station to keep us going, to keep us on the air.
[49:42.790 --> 49:46.150] [SPEAKER_06]: Again, 64 years has been that long?
[49:46.290 --> 49:46.470] [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[49:47.690 --> 49:57.250] [SPEAKER_06]: And I challenge anybody to find another radio station in New York City that has been going for that long without changing their format, without doing so.
[49:57.310 --> 49:58.150] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, there have been attempts.
[49:58.610 --> 50:05.810] [SPEAKER_06]: There's constantly attempts to get us off the air, to take over the license, to sell the place.
[50:06.070 --> 50:08.290] [SPEAKER_06]: There's always people that want to do bad things.
[50:08.490 --> 50:10.270] [SPEAKER_06]: That's never going to change.
[50:10.430 --> 50:16.950] [SPEAKER_06]: But as long as there are people out there who want to do good things, and those are our listeners, we'll survive whatever storms come.
[50:17.390 --> 50:23.310] [SPEAKER_06]: So again, 212-209-2950, website give2wbai.org.
[50:23.310 --> 50:27.690] [SPEAKER_06]: And please spread the word because obviously we can't reach the people who aren't listening.
[50:28.290 --> 50:32.410] [SPEAKER_06]: And there's a lot of people not listening, as well as people who are listening.
[50:32.570 --> 50:35.570] [SPEAKER_06]: And people all over the world support this place.
[50:35.830 --> 50:39.090] [SPEAKER_06]: We talk about it in foreign countries.
[50:39.270 --> 50:40.970] [SPEAKER_06]: People are aware of WBAI.
[50:41.110 --> 50:44.190] [SPEAKER_06]: It's historic and ground-setting.
[50:44.790 --> 50:48.430] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, we're going to continue our conversation over on YouTube.
[50:48.610 --> 50:53.030] [SPEAKER_06]: Just go to Channel2600 at 8 o'clock, and you will find us there.
[50:53.730 --> 50:59.950] [SPEAKER_06]: And you can call in, in fact, and ask your questions, or hear more banter from us.
[51:00.670 --> 51:03.590] [SPEAKER_06]: In the meantime, we're going to sign off here from WBAI.
[51:03.710 --> 51:05.690] [SPEAKER_06]: Please keep listening to 99.5 FM.
[51:06.170 --> 51:11.210] [SPEAKER_06]: And please also observe Juneteenth, which is what today is.
[51:11.330 --> 51:15.610] [SPEAKER_06]: Today is a holiday, and it's a really, really important day.
[51:16.130 --> 51:19.950] [SPEAKER_06]: And we're privileged and honored to even be broadcasting on this day.
[51:21.590 --> 51:25.730] [SPEAKER_06]: It's so important to talk about history, to study it, and to learn from it.
[51:27.030 --> 51:30.230] [SPEAKER_06]: And keep listening to WBAI, and I think you'll do exactly that.
[51:31.030 --> 51:35.630] [SPEAKER_06]: We'll see you next week, or we'll see you at 8 o'clock on Overtime on YouTube.
[51:36.050 --> 51:36.930] [SPEAKER_06]: Good night, everyone.
[51:37.350 --> 51:37.950] [SPEAKER_05]: Bye.
[54:37.240 --> 54:40.500] [SPEAKER_06]: And welcome everybody over on YouTube.
[54:42.860 --> 54:43.880] [SPEAKER_06]: Make it okay Kyle?
[54:44.840 --> 54:45.320] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[54:45.560 --> 54:45.860] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[54:46.880 --> 54:49.120] [SPEAKER_06]: Rob, Gila, Alex, you all there?
[54:50.040 --> 54:50.840] [SPEAKER_06]: I am here.
[54:50.960 --> 54:51.480] [SPEAKER_06]: I am here.
[54:53.480 --> 54:54.000] [SPEAKER_06]: I am here.
[54:54.000 --> 54:55.260] [SPEAKER_06]: And we're waiting for Alex to say something.
[54:56.700 --> 54:57.500] [SPEAKER_06]: I am here.
[54:57.560 --> 54:58.020] [SPEAKER_06]: There he is.
[54:58.180 --> 54:58.420] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[54:59.040 --> 55:00.280] [SPEAKER_06]: It's quite a delay you got there.
[55:00.780 --> 55:03.560] [SPEAKER_06]: And we just have to verify that we are in fact broadcasting on YouTube.
[55:03.740 --> 55:04.800] [SPEAKER_06]: And then we're all set to go.
[55:04.960 --> 55:05.160] [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[55:05.320 --> 55:05.520] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[55:06.440 --> 55:07.480] [SPEAKER_06]: So our phone number.
[55:07.740 --> 55:09.040] [SPEAKER_06]: First of all, everyone get a water break.
[55:09.320 --> 55:12.100] [SPEAKER_06]: You dash yourself with water during the heat wave and all that.
[55:12.740 --> 55:14.120] [SPEAKER_06]: Away from the electronic equipment.
[55:16.760 --> 55:18.000] [SPEAKER_01]: Beverages have been replenished.
[55:18.140 --> 55:19.020] [SPEAKER_07]: Beverages have been replenished.
[55:19.140 --> 55:21.660] [SPEAKER_07]: And we did turn the air on during the break.
[55:21.660 --> 55:21.980] [SPEAKER_07]: Uh huh.
[55:22.520 --> 55:22.840] [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[55:23.080 --> 55:24.600] [SPEAKER_05]: So we cooled down a little bit.
[55:24.920 --> 55:27.760] [SPEAKER_05]: I, I'm just now getting to the water part of my break.
[55:27.900 --> 55:30.360] [SPEAKER_06]: 802-321-4225 is our telephone number.
[55:30.460 --> 55:32.300] [SPEAKER_06]: Alex, I noticed you had a dog on camera before.
[55:32.300 --> 55:33.140] [SPEAKER_06]: What's going on over there?
[55:35.380 --> 55:35.820] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[55:35.960 --> 55:36.120] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[55:36.240 --> 55:37.460] [SPEAKER_04]: That's my beagle, Cleo.
[55:37.920 --> 55:40.320] [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, she, she says hello to everybody.
[55:41.360 --> 55:42.000] [SPEAKER_06]: Does she?
[55:42.140 --> 55:42.800] [SPEAKER_06]: Does she really?
[55:44.240 --> 55:45.140] [SPEAKER_04]: She does indeed.
[55:45.420 --> 55:45.880] [SPEAKER_04]: She does.
[55:46.020 --> 55:46.160] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[55:46.240 --> 55:47.360] [SPEAKER_04]: She's very precocious.
[55:48.300 --> 55:48.860] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[55:48.860 --> 55:55.780] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, um, be that as it may, um, any other, uh, remarks from our, our previous conversation was quite, pretty spirited.
[55:55.940 --> 56:00.320] [SPEAKER_06]: I think, you know, as far as new old technology, that kind of thing, a lot to say.
[56:01.200 --> 56:01.620] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[56:01.820 --> 56:18.520] [SPEAKER_01]: There was a story I was, uh, I was looking at from the BBC, um, about a week ago where they, uh, as an experiment took 10 teenagers from a local, a local, uh, technical college and basically locked up their smartphones for 10 days, um, and gave them feature phones.
[56:18.520 --> 56:21.440] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, little brick phones instead to use.
[56:22.020 --> 56:34.620] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think one or two of them dropped out immediately, um, a day or two in the rest, uh, found it weirdly refreshing, but also felt the continued stress and aggravation of the stuff they're missing out on.
[56:34.960 --> 56:38.860] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I think they all, they all went right back to their smartphones at the end of the experiment.
[56:39.120 --> 56:41.160] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, there was much relief.
[56:41.160 --> 56:45.580] [SPEAKER_06]: Were they, were they allowed to use a computer to connect to social media?
[56:46.700 --> 56:48.240] [SPEAKER_01]: They, they were, I believe.
[56:48.560 --> 56:53.240] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, the idea was just, uh, let's change what's, uh, going on when you're out in the world, doing whatever.
[56:53.960 --> 57:03.540] [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, a couple of them had expressed things like, uh, you know, getting back into creative pursuits, uh, you know, cycling more, exercising, things like that.
[57:04.160 --> 57:07.600] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, one kid says, I feel like I'm learning stuff and engaging more.
[57:07.600 --> 57:11.220] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything says, uh, a 15 year old called grace.
[57:11.660 --> 57:18.120] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and, uh, she was actually buying a bunch of plastic gems to, uh, stick all over her brick phone and, uh, bedazzle it.
[57:18.380 --> 57:23.540] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, it's, it's kind of, it's kind of sweet, but, uh, it's also, yes, a big deal.
[57:24.880 --> 57:29.100] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you know, it's something we all have the power to try to experiment with.
[57:29.240 --> 57:40.600] [SPEAKER_06]: We can all leave our smartphone at home or, you know, get something else instead and use that to communicate, um, do things the way our, our relatives and ancestors used to do them.
[57:41.000 --> 57:44.800] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, not necessarily, you know, what are you laughing at Kyle?
[57:44.900 --> 57:47.000] [SPEAKER_06]: You have a blackberry for God's sake, you should talk.
[57:48.100 --> 57:49.500] [SPEAKER_05]: No, that was deep.
[57:49.640 --> 57:50.940] [SPEAKER_05]: I like, I like the way you put that.
[57:51.120 --> 58:01.140] [SPEAKER_06]: And on that subject, I mean, you basically fought back harder than I think blackberry itself fought back against their, uh, I mean, do they even still exist?
[58:01.140 --> 58:02.640] [SPEAKER_06]: The phone still works, right?
[58:03.460 --> 58:06.060] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, this, this, this is a long conversation.
[58:06.580 --> 58:10.840] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, they're like, they're an entity still.
[58:11.040 --> 58:11.320] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[58:11.600 --> 58:26.140] [SPEAKER_05]: But a lot of the familiar services that people using those particular handsets would, um, um, I don't know, embrace or, you know, rely on that day to day.
[58:26.140 --> 58:30.300] [SPEAKER_05]: A lot of those, uh, services don't exist in the same form at all.
[58:30.680 --> 58:39.440] [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, yeah, I, I think a lot of carriers themselves have, um, you know, no longer offer plans or anything like that.
[58:39.620 --> 59:05.420] [SPEAKER_05]: And last I heard, I think they were doing, trying to market some of the software aspects and basically reimagine the usefulness of some of blackberries, um, kind of novel development stuff, but a market for that, that isn't quite so saturated and dominated like,
[59:05.640 --> 59:10.360] [SPEAKER_05]: like cellular technology, I think it's still elusive for them.
[59:10.580 --> 59:12.880] [SPEAKER_06]: So I don't understand why they just couldn't exist.
[59:13.080 --> 59:21.820] [SPEAKER_06]: Even if they're smaller, even if they can't quite compete with Android and Apple, uh, enough people love blackberries that they should still be around.
[59:21.820 --> 59:25.340] [SPEAKER_06]: People should be able to use that form of technology if they, if they choose to.
[59:25.420 --> 59:29.140] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm almost scared to mention, I mean, not all blackberries are gone per se.
[59:29.540 --> 59:36.060] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and they do still have functionality, but support is not there at all.
[59:36.060 --> 59:43.760] [SPEAKER_05]: And the, the network itself, like that would have had sort of their own features for blackberry specific devices.
[59:43.760 --> 59:45.100] [SPEAKER_05]: That's not there anymore.
[59:45.100 --> 01:00:06.340] [SPEAKER_05]: So you're, you're kind of offline and, and not attached in the way that blackberry worked, which was, um, if you understand sort of, uh, how counterintuitive it was sort of each device was itself a server as opposed to being a client that was attached to a server.
[01:00:06.480 --> 01:00:07.200] [SPEAKER_05]: And that was cool.
[01:00:07.400 --> 01:00:08.800] [SPEAKER_05]: That was part of their technology.
[01:00:09.020 --> 01:00:20.820] [SPEAKER_05]: So the, the, um, the ability to maintain that and be a part of the QNX hive mind, hive mind, and, and all of that, you know, whatever, whatever their stuff is.
[01:00:20.820 --> 01:00:28.500] [SPEAKER_05]: And, and, and it being of course updated, because that's the thing that I think Apple and Android have now.
[01:00:29.160 --> 01:00:31.120] [SPEAKER_05]: They're, they're the support, right?
[01:00:31.240 --> 01:00:33.120] [SPEAKER_05]: They're updated and current.
[01:00:33.260 --> 01:00:37.840] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's partly why people are dependent because it's managing the OS.
[01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:43.380] [SPEAKER_05]: And then you have like a little sprinkle of Google in there, uh, being affiliated with Android.
[01:00:43.380 --> 01:00:50.460] [SPEAKER_05]: So it's definitely become more complex and the carriers just dealing with two, I think is cumbersome.
[01:00:50.640 --> 01:00:53.180] [SPEAKER_05]: Then three, four, five different types.
[01:00:53.340 --> 01:01:13.480] [SPEAKER_05]: It's weird because the feature phones themselves have their own little OSs, but they seem to be on a tier, uh, and this is more like in the realm of hardware and elect electronic engineering way beyond me, but, uh, uh, or what I could guess, but it, they seem to at the operator level have less,
[01:01:13.480 --> 01:01:20.800] [SPEAKER_05]: uh, overhead and fit into some kind of category of device that is easy to set up and easy to use.
[01:01:20.960 --> 01:01:21.960] [SPEAKER_05]: Like Alex was describing.
[01:01:23.540 --> 01:01:25.740] [SPEAKER_06]: You guys have anything out there or do we have a phone call?
[01:01:26.400 --> 01:01:26.800] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:01:26.920 --> 01:01:27.860] [SPEAKER_05]: Somebody did call.
[01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:32.500] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if they're like, I felt like I could just, you know, let them linger.
[01:01:32.560 --> 01:01:33.560] [SPEAKER_05]: They could be the first call.
[01:01:33.960 --> 01:01:35.200] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't want to punish them.
[01:01:35.360 --> 01:01:36.420] [SPEAKER_06]: Do we have a call or not?
[01:01:36.780 --> 01:01:37.180] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:37.640] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, we do.
[01:01:37.740 --> 01:01:38.000] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[01:01:38.240 --> 01:01:39.560] [SPEAKER_05]: Well then do you want to take a call?
[01:01:39.560 --> 01:01:43.220] [SPEAKER_06]: I think we should take the call that's on hold because somebody is waiting patiently.
[01:01:43.400 --> 01:01:44.100] [SPEAKER_05]: Let the people talk.
[01:01:44.380 --> 01:01:44.880] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I'm done.
[01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:45.760] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't need to talk.
[01:01:45.980 --> 01:01:46.560] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't need to talk.
[01:01:46.660 --> 01:01:46.760] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:01:47.100 --> 01:01:47.840] [SPEAKER_05]: Why am I talking?
[01:01:47.980 --> 01:01:48.720] [SPEAKER_05]: Why am I still talking?
[01:01:48.900 --> 01:01:49.520] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[01:01:50.100 --> 01:01:50.940] [SPEAKER_05]: Where'd Alex go?
[01:01:51.140 --> 01:01:51.760] [SPEAKER_05]: Is he still around?
[01:01:51.900 --> 01:01:52.440] [SPEAKER_06]: He's there.
[01:01:52.500 --> 01:01:53.320] [SPEAKER_06]: You just can't see him.
[01:01:53.420 --> 01:01:53.600] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[01:01:53.740 --> 01:01:54.020] [SPEAKER_06]: He's all right.
[01:01:54.060 --> 01:01:54.640] [SPEAKER_06]: We're all here.
[01:01:54.660 --> 01:01:55.740] [SPEAKER_06]: He's an icon now.
[01:01:55.960 --> 01:01:56.520] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm here.
[01:01:56.980 --> 01:01:57.340] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:01:58.700 --> 01:01:59.060] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[01:01:59.360 --> 01:02:00.800] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, yeah, it's an improvement.
[01:02:00.800 --> 01:02:04.040] [SPEAKER_06]: I think it's, it was kind of good in that little, little picture there.
[01:02:04.700 --> 01:02:05.400] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, okay.
[01:02:05.580 --> 01:02:05.880] [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[01:02:06.040 --> 01:02:07.140] [SPEAKER_06]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:02:07.140 --> 01:02:07.400] [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[01:02:09.160 --> 01:02:11.360] [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, this is the Gibson from hackers.town.
[01:02:11.620 --> 01:02:12.380] [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, what's up?
[01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:12.820] [SPEAKER_08]: How you doing?
[01:02:13.860 --> 01:02:14.520] [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, doing?
[01:02:14.600 --> 01:02:15.240] [SPEAKER_08]: Hello, Mr. Mayor.
[01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:17.300] [SPEAKER_08]: Look, thank you.
[01:02:17.840 --> 01:02:20.260] [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, hope is three weeks away y'all.
[01:02:20.520 --> 01:02:21.500] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh my God.
[01:02:21.740 --> 01:02:30.060] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, way to make me panic, but we're looking forward to it because we have not only our valid talk there.
[01:02:30.220 --> 01:02:31.500] [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you for hosting us for that.
[01:02:31.620 --> 01:02:32.720] [SPEAKER_08]: We're very appreciative.
[01:02:32.960 --> 01:02:40.620] [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, but we also have three other hackers.town members speaking and another CDC member there speaking.
[01:02:40.880 --> 01:02:42.820] [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, Lodri is, uh, on one of your panels.
[01:02:43.080 --> 01:02:49.040] [SPEAKER_08]: So you're in real danger of a hackers.town, CDC combined takeover.
[01:02:49.040 --> 01:02:49.720] [SPEAKER_08]: That's all I'm saying.
[01:02:49.900 --> 01:02:50.180] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[01:02:50.340 --> 01:02:52.340] [SPEAKER_08]: We're looking forward to it and we're ready to go.
[01:02:52.840 --> 01:02:53.900] [SPEAKER_08]: I have to say.
[01:02:54.180 --> 01:02:55.400] [SPEAKER_08]: Call in and get some excitement out there.
[01:02:55.440 --> 01:02:55.620] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[01:02:55.740 --> 01:03:01.660] [SPEAKER_06]: We, we, we have more, um, participation this year than I can remember for quite a while.
[01:03:01.660 --> 01:03:05.380] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, more talks, more workshops, more villages.
[01:03:05.940 --> 01:03:10.920] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, it's really going to be amazing and interesting and, and, and fun and memorable.
[01:03:11.320 --> 01:03:13.180] [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, yeah, three weeks away.
[01:03:13.300 --> 01:03:13.840] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh my God.
[01:03:14.140 --> 01:03:16.260] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, we should start, start organizing this thing.
[01:03:16.380 --> 01:03:16.580] [SPEAKER_06]: I think.
[01:03:17.620 --> 01:03:18.060] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:03:18.780 --> 01:03:29.580] [SPEAKER_06]: If you go, if, if, if you go to the hope.net website, you'll see, uh, the updated list of workshops and the speaker schedule is now up and, uh, there's a whole lot more information.
[01:03:29.580 --> 01:03:38.140] [SPEAKER_06]: It's constantly being refreshed and, and, uh, updated and there'll be, um, there'll, there'll be a lot more coming as well, but, uh, it's not too late to get tickets.
[01:03:38.340 --> 01:03:40.600] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, hope.net there's a, there's a ticket link there.
[01:03:41.040 --> 01:03:46.400] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I know that, uh, we needed to get another 300, um, uh, tickets sold.
[01:03:46.520 --> 01:03:50.000] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think we're at least halfway to that point right now.
[01:03:50.040 --> 01:03:52.080] [SPEAKER_06]: And that was, uh, that was only a week ago.
[01:03:52.240 --> 01:04:07.220] [SPEAKER_06]: So, um, fingers crossed that we can get there because if we get there, we're able to, um, uh, use that money to get more cool things so that the conference looks and sounds as, as good as it can possibly sound, you know, no matter what, it's going to happen.
[01:04:07.240 --> 01:04:14.740] [SPEAKER_06]: No matter what, it's going to be awesome, but we want to make it as, as cool as possible and, um, uh, throw as much at this thing as we can.
[01:04:14.900 --> 01:04:15.140] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:04:15.180 --> 01:04:18.320] [SPEAKER_05]: We're also, um, accepting, uh, shit.
[01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:23.700] [SPEAKER_05]: We're signing up and accepting volunteers, getting a lot of the pre-planning in place for buildup.
[01:04:23.880 --> 01:04:25.500] [SPEAKER_05]: So, um, get in touch.
[01:04:25.640 --> 01:04:41.560] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's volunteers at hope.net, but there's all the info on hope.net to get involved and, uh, sign up, find something that, that maybe you can devote a little bit of time to that helps every bit of, uh, the volunteer end of the event because, well,
[01:04:41.980 --> 01:04:45.100] [SPEAKER_05]: frankly, some of the volunteers want to sneak away and catch talks too.
[01:04:45.100 --> 01:04:46.920] [SPEAKER_05]: So, so please chip in.
[01:04:47.080 --> 01:04:47.740] [SPEAKER_05]: It really helps.
[01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:50.880] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, what are some of the things that we, um, specifically need help with?
[01:04:50.940 --> 01:04:54.860] [SPEAKER_06]: I know, uh, um, running cameras is something that we always use.
[01:04:55.000 --> 01:05:09.140] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, we can always use help with that's, uh, you know, the talks themselves, making sure that they're, uh, being recorded properly and all that, um, MCs, people to introduce speakers in the various tracks that we have talks going on.
[01:05:09.680 --> 01:05:11.540] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, all sorts of things.
[01:05:11.720 --> 01:05:14.900] [SPEAKER_06]: There, there are so many different aspects to the, to running a conference.
[01:05:15.320 --> 01:05:21.920] [SPEAKER_06]: I can't even get it all in my head, but, um, volunteers at hope.net I think is the email address for that.
[01:05:23.380 --> 01:05:31.020] [SPEAKER_08]: I'll, uh, I'll keep pushing the, uh, pushing the button to get people's attention because, uh, you know, we want to see this be the, the most KRAD hope it can be.
[01:05:31.020 --> 01:05:31.540] [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
[01:05:31.860 --> 01:05:34.060] [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, we are gonna, we're gonna be there.
[01:05:34.280 --> 01:05:37.360] [SPEAKER_08]: We're bringing the party with us, so we'll take care of part of it.
[01:05:37.540 --> 01:05:40.560] [SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, we absolutely want to see you guys get the support you need.
[01:05:40.560 --> 01:05:45.220] [SPEAKER_08]: So I'll get out there and, and start pushing the signal again and hopefully help get some people in.
[01:05:45.460 --> 01:05:46.040] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you very much.
[01:05:46.100 --> 01:05:46.660] [SPEAKER_06]: We appreciate that.
[01:05:46.740 --> 01:05:47.540] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for bringing it up.
[01:05:47.660 --> 01:05:49.900] [SPEAKER_06]: And we look forward to your talk and to seeing you there.
[01:05:49.960 --> 01:05:51.500] [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, it's going to be awesome.
[01:05:52.860 --> 01:05:53.080] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[01:05:53.200 --> 01:05:53.320] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[01:05:53.380 --> 01:05:54.600] [SPEAKER_08]: We're just looking forward to being there.
[01:05:54.700 --> 01:05:56.840] [SPEAKER_08]: I've never actually been to in-person hope before.
[01:05:56.840 --> 01:05:57.900] [SPEAKER_08]: This is going to be the first one.
[01:05:58.080 --> 01:05:59.560] [SPEAKER_08]: So I'm looking forward to it.
[01:05:59.560 --> 01:06:07.220] [SPEAKER_06]: You'll be amazed at how, how, um, it's, it's both in a city and also it feels like you're just with a bunch of friends.
[01:06:07.700 --> 01:06:09.220] [SPEAKER_06]: Alex, I think you have something to add.
[01:06:09.340 --> 01:06:09.540] [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[01:06:10.980 --> 01:06:11.240] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:06:11.420 --> 01:06:13.800] [SPEAKER_04]: Gibson, uh, great, great to be back in touch.
[01:06:13.960 --> 01:06:17.300] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's make sure that we connect over at hope in person.
[01:06:18.020 --> 01:06:31.720] [SPEAKER_04]: And, um, and I want to talk to you further about valid where you guys are, what kind of help you need and also whether or not perhaps there's a way to integrate ENS or the, uh, Ethereum name service into the back end there in some way.
[01:06:32.000 --> 01:06:35.280] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm very excited to hear what's going on.
[01:06:35.980 --> 01:06:37.700] [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, and, and to see you in three weeks.
[01:06:37.700 --> 01:06:38.020] [SPEAKER_08]: There's been some projects.
[01:06:38.900 --> 01:06:39.300] [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[01:06:39.380 --> 01:06:39.820] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, absolutely.
[01:06:39.960 --> 01:06:46.260] [SPEAKER_08]: There's been some projects kind of like what you're talking about that people have theorized, but I don't think any work started on yet, but we'll talk then and exchange some notes.
[01:06:47.120 --> 01:06:47.520] [SPEAKER_04]: Awesome.
[01:06:47.820 --> 01:06:48.600] [SPEAKER_08]: Looking forward to it, man.
[01:06:50.100 --> 01:06:50.500] [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[01:06:50.920 --> 01:06:52.760] [SPEAKER_08]: We're going to exchange notes in the hallway though, Alex.
[01:06:53.080 --> 01:07:01.320] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, there's not only hallways, there's, there's, there's, there's many outdoor areas and all kinds of nooks and crannies to hang out in and, uh, and meeting places.
[01:07:01.460 --> 01:07:02.600] [SPEAKER_06]: It's, it's really close.
[01:07:02.620 --> 01:07:05.300] [SPEAKER_06]: So much space compared to, you know, to the hotel.
[01:07:05.680 --> 01:07:16.120] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, uh, you know, the hotel was great, but, um, limited amount of space and in the middle of, uh, Midtown, this it's, it's, it's, you're in the city still, but it's, it's wide open.
[01:07:16.120 --> 01:07:17.660] [SPEAKER_06]: So you can do so much more.
[01:07:17.800 --> 01:07:18.180] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:07:18.340 --> 01:07:25.720] [SPEAKER_05]: We're, we're, we're sort of taking over, um, uh, common, um, sort of, uh, cafeteria, really large space.
[01:07:25.720 --> 01:07:36.440] [SPEAKER_05]: We also have like, what is, uh, uh, kind of like, uh, it's got a lot of alcoves and like, uh, areas set aside as a part of one of the, the, uh, professional schools.
[01:07:36.680 --> 01:07:39.560] [SPEAKER_05]: So that's like, it's, it's really conducive to a lot of that.
[01:07:39.660 --> 01:07:43.900] [SPEAKER_05]: So there'll be a lot of, uh, hopefully those kinds of conversations going on.
[01:07:43.900 --> 01:07:47.360] [SPEAKER_05]: So bring it and thanks for all the energy that, that that's what we like to hear.
[01:07:48.780 --> 01:07:49.100] [SPEAKER_08]: Absolutely.
[01:07:49.220 --> 01:07:50.940] [SPEAKER_08]: We're going to, we're going to help out any way we can.
[01:07:51.120 --> 01:07:54.060] [SPEAKER_08]: So I'll, I'll let somebody else do the talking from here on out.
[01:07:54.200 --> 01:07:56.600] [SPEAKER_08]: I've said everything I need to say, but thank you guys for putting it on.
[01:07:56.720 --> 01:08:00.160] [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you guys for having us and all the best with how this thing goes.
[01:08:00.300 --> 01:08:00.980] [SPEAKER_08]: We'll see you there.
[01:08:01.100 --> 01:08:01.440] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[01:08:01.580 --> 01:08:02.300] [SPEAKER_06]: In three weeks.
[01:08:02.320 --> 01:08:02.860] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh my God.
[01:08:03.800 --> 01:08:04.020] [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[01:08:04.820 --> 01:08:05.140] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:08:05.240 --> 01:08:07.480] [SPEAKER_06]: I, I, I guess I wasn't really paying attention to the calendar.
[01:08:08.660 --> 01:08:12.300] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, 802-321-4225 is our telephone number.
[01:08:12.300 --> 01:08:14.600] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, yes, Gila, go ahead.
[01:08:15.240 --> 01:08:21.540] [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, so first of all, I wanted to say thank you to Rob for writing heard on the chat last week in my absence.
[01:08:21.820 --> 01:08:26.100] [SPEAKER_07]: Hello to the 49 people who are with us right now on YouTube.
[01:08:26.600 --> 01:08:29.880] [SPEAKER_07]: And actually we did get a question from a listener.
[01:08:30.280 --> 01:08:43.900] [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, this is from Jedi 83, uh, who asks in the chat or who says in the chat, I got a question that I was going to call in with, but just going to ask it here in the chat for everyone, including those on the show, uh, to answer if they get a chance.
[01:08:44.520 --> 01:08:46.500] [SPEAKER_07]: How do you define what a hacker is?
[01:08:47.800 --> 01:08:49.300] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, you're asking them.
[01:08:50.160 --> 01:09:02.980] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, so the, the question is in the chat and of the, again, of 46, something I said, apparently people who are in the chat are always free to answer that question, but you know, also asking it of the panel.
[01:09:03.920 --> 01:09:05.680] [SPEAKER_06]: You want us to define what a hacker is?
[01:09:06.360 --> 01:09:07.880] [SPEAKER_07]: What you feel a hacker is.
[01:09:07.960 --> 01:09:08.120] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[01:09:08.960 --> 01:09:10.720] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I've never been asked that question before.
[01:09:10.860 --> 01:09:13.920] [SPEAKER_06]: I've been doing this since 1984 and no one has ever asked me what I think a hacker is.
[01:09:14.760 --> 01:09:15.600] [SPEAKER_06]: Can you believe that?
[01:09:16.080 --> 01:09:16.600] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[01:09:16.680 --> 01:09:18.080] [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe it's an oversight or something.
[01:09:18.440 --> 01:09:20.860] [SPEAKER_06]: I guess, you know, my opinion doesn't really matter that much.
[01:09:21.300 --> 01:09:21.800] [SPEAKER_06]: That's okay.
[01:09:21.960 --> 01:09:22.280] [SPEAKER_06]: That's fine.
[01:09:22.360 --> 01:09:23.880] [SPEAKER_05]: This is what you leap out of bed for.
[01:09:27.160 --> 01:09:31.180] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's important for people not to be told what a hacker is necessarily.
[01:09:31.180 --> 01:09:32.900] [SPEAKER_05]: You got to kind of define it for yourself.
[01:09:33.080 --> 01:09:37.940] [SPEAKER_05]: That's a good, uh, sidestep, uh, as I strafe the conversation.
[01:09:38.040 --> 01:09:38.140] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:09:38.140 --> 01:09:39.940] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I'm not, I'm not avoiding the question.
[01:09:40.040 --> 01:09:44.260] [SPEAKER_06]: It's just, um, I'm so tired of the question and I don't want to get it wrong.
[01:09:44.400 --> 01:09:46.200] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, say something that doesn't make sense.
[01:09:46.300 --> 01:09:48.580] [SPEAKER_05]: It's also something that changes across time.
[01:09:48.580 --> 01:09:51.160] [SPEAKER_05]: I think we're defining it in this very moment.
[01:09:51.360 --> 01:09:59.280] [SPEAKER_06]: There's so many ways to be a hacker, you know, but, uh, our definition is, uh, you know, curious people with, with decent intent.
[01:09:59.800 --> 01:10:03.400] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, but you certainly could use hacker abilities for evil.
[01:10:03.580 --> 01:10:06.660] [SPEAKER_06]: There's no question about that, but I don't think that makes you a hacker.
[01:10:06.820 --> 01:10:19.400] [SPEAKER_06]: I think it makes you a criminal and, um, you know, somebody maybe with hacking skills, but to be part of this community, I think is, um, uh, you know, you're part of an inclusive, uh, open-minded, uh, fun community of people.
[01:10:19.400 --> 01:10:22.800] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, the kind of people that show up at hope, that, that, that, that sort of thing.
[01:10:23.200 --> 01:10:31.100] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, asking questions, um, never accepting something just because you're told that's the way it is.
[01:10:31.260 --> 01:10:32.620] [SPEAKER_06]: Thinking outside the box.
[01:10:33.060 --> 01:10:34.460] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, it doesn't have to be technical.
[01:10:34.680 --> 01:10:35.780] [SPEAKER_06]: You don't have to be a coder.
[01:10:35.880 --> 01:10:38.320] [SPEAKER_06]: You don't have to even, uh, understand phones or computers.
[01:10:38.780 --> 01:10:42.380] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, you just have to have that inquisitive mind and think outside the box.
[01:10:42.720 --> 01:10:50.600] [SPEAKER_06]: And, um, you know, just, um, determine that you're going to, um, you're going to get the answer one way or another.
[01:10:50.840 --> 01:10:52.920] [SPEAKER_06]: You're going to get what you want one way or another.
[01:10:53.220 --> 01:11:07.240] [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, there's a reason why in, um, in movies, TV shows, the person with the hacking abilities, the person who thinks outside the box, a person who doesn't follow the rules because, well, the rules sometimes are stupid.
[01:11:07.760 --> 01:11:10.440] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, the audience always sides with them.
[01:11:10.580 --> 01:11:14.340] [SPEAKER_06]: There's a reason for that because deep down within all of us, there's a hacker.
[01:11:14.560 --> 01:11:16.440] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, we all want to be hackers.
[01:11:16.440 --> 01:11:26.440] [SPEAKER_06]: We all want to have that ability and that courage to speak for ourselves and to defy the system, but we don't always get the opportunity.
[01:11:26.920 --> 01:11:39.400] [SPEAKER_06]: And that way, you know, when we're reading books or watching movies, we can identify with those who are characters that strike out and speak up for themselves and all the rest of us.
[01:11:41.480 --> 01:11:46.020] [SPEAKER_07]: So the chat is... people are really active in all of this.
[01:11:46.200 --> 01:11:51.660] [SPEAKER_07]: I did want to share a couple of comments from listeners who have chimed in.
[01:11:51.940 --> 01:11:56.200] [SPEAKER_07]: So we start with our friend Matt, who says a hacker is one who hacks.
[01:11:58.460 --> 01:12:02.280] [SPEAKER_07]: A hacker is someone who not only plays with computers, but with any bit of tech.
[01:12:02.760 --> 01:12:04.340] [SPEAKER_07]: Matt also says different colored hats.
[01:12:05.320 --> 01:12:14.140] [SPEAKER_07]: Drake in Black Knight says there's a number of ways hacker can be defined, ranging from the types of people who try to break slash secure computer systems to the phreakers of the 60s through 80s, for example.
[01:12:14.440 --> 01:12:16.380] [SPEAKER_07]: Did you know that phreakers aren't a thing anymore?
[01:12:18.200 --> 01:12:27.980] [SPEAKER_07]: Our friend Alexius says, I figure that hacker is something you can't really claim because you sound boastful, but at the same time, nobody can tell you that you aren't one.
[01:12:28.960 --> 01:12:33.580] [SPEAKER_07]: And our friend Johnny Fusion says what I was going to say, which is it's like porn.
[01:12:33.580 --> 01:12:34.240] [SPEAKER_07]: I know it.
[01:12:34.340 --> 01:12:35.340] [SPEAKER_07]: When I see it.
[01:12:37.840 --> 01:12:43.520] [SPEAKER_07]: Again, always, always great to get to have these conversations with all of you and with all of you.
[01:12:43.600 --> 01:12:47.340] [SPEAKER_07]: And you can't see where I'm pointing everybody, but I'm, I'm pointing at YouTube.
[01:12:48.240 --> 01:12:56.040] [SPEAKER_07]: And no, this is why we do overtime like this so that we can have these vaster conversations than among just those of us on the panel.
[01:12:57.240 --> 01:13:00.280] [SPEAKER_06]: And we can take phone calls, which we can't do since we're remote.
[01:13:00.500 --> 01:13:03.720] [SPEAKER_05]: We can come back to this particular topic, but there is a call.
[01:13:03.720 --> 01:13:04.380] [SPEAKER_06]: There is a call.
[01:13:04.500 --> 01:13:04.680] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[01:13:05.120 --> 01:13:05.740] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry.
[01:13:06.100 --> 01:13:06.860] [SPEAKER_06]: And good evening.
[01:13:07.020 --> 01:13:08.680] [SPEAKER_06]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:13:08.740 --> 01:13:08.940] [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[01:13:10.380 --> 01:13:10.820] [SPEAKER_10]: Hi.
[01:13:11.840 --> 01:13:12.280] [SPEAKER_06]: Hello.
[01:13:13.200 --> 01:13:13.640] [SPEAKER_10]: I...
[01:13:13.640 --> 01:13:14.460] [SPEAKER_10]: What?
[01:13:14.820 --> 01:13:15.620] [SPEAKER_10]: Did you say something?
[01:13:15.660 --> 01:13:16.220] [SPEAKER_10]: I said hello.
[01:13:16.680 --> 01:13:19.000] [SPEAKER_06]: It's standard to say hello after someone says hi.
[01:13:19.380 --> 01:13:19.540] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[01:13:20.160 --> 01:13:20.980] [SPEAKER_06]: Just our tradition.
[01:13:21.780 --> 01:13:22.540] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:38.940] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm relieved that you talked about hope during overtime rather than on the air because of people who would try to attack you if you mentioned it over the air.
[01:13:38.940 --> 01:13:40.540] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's probably true.
[01:13:40.780 --> 01:13:41.300] [SPEAKER_06]: There are people...
[01:13:41.300 --> 01:13:43.260] [SPEAKER_06]: It's a weird situation.
[01:13:43.260 --> 01:13:49.940] [SPEAKER_06]: There are people out there that are convinced that somehow we're profiting immensely from this conference.
[01:13:49.940 --> 01:13:52.920] [SPEAKER_06]: And by even mentioning it on the air that we're...
[01:13:53.900 --> 01:13:54.660] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[01:13:54.780 --> 01:14:00.180] [SPEAKER_06]: The equivalent of airing commercials and using the station for our own cash cow.
[01:14:01.240 --> 01:14:02.460] [SPEAKER_06]: That's not what's happening.
[01:14:02.460 --> 01:14:04.580] [SPEAKER_06]: Anybody who's been to the conference or knows us knows that.
[01:14:04.880 --> 01:14:08.200] [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, it's not our station.
[01:14:08.200 --> 01:14:11.240] [SPEAKER_06]: We're part of the radio station.
[01:14:11.360 --> 01:14:12.020] [SPEAKER_06]: We do a show there.
[01:14:12.360 --> 01:14:21.320] [SPEAKER_06]: But we are not going to put the station in harm's way because there's lunatics out there that want to hurt the station and want to use us as the means of doing that.
[01:14:21.480 --> 01:14:24.440] [SPEAKER_06]: So we have so much to talk about in this community.
[01:14:24.800 --> 01:14:32.060] [SPEAKER_06]: And with this technology, we could literally go all day long without even mentioning one particular item or not.
[01:14:32.060 --> 01:14:33.480] [SPEAKER_06]: But, look, people know what hope is.
[01:14:33.680 --> 01:14:36.400] [SPEAKER_06]: We don't have to constantly discuss that.
[01:14:36.920 --> 01:14:38.000] [SPEAKER_06]: It is of interest.
[01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:38.560] [SPEAKER_06]: I know that.
[01:14:38.740 --> 01:14:39.920] [SPEAKER_06]: It's frustrating for listeners.
[01:14:40.120 --> 01:14:41.400] [SPEAKER_06]: But that's why we have overtime.
[01:14:41.400 --> 01:14:44.920] [SPEAKER_06]: So people can partake there and people can also write to us.
[01:14:45.980 --> 01:14:46.420] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:14:46.480 --> 01:14:50.300] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I was saying I was glad that you exercised discretion.
[01:14:50.540 --> 01:14:54.580] [SPEAKER_10]: And I just wanted to pat you on the back for that.
[01:14:54.860 --> 01:14:55.080] [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[01:14:55.260 --> 01:15:00.600] [SPEAKER_10]: Because I'm concerned about the people who are gunning for you unfairly.
[01:15:00.600 --> 01:15:02.940] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think they need help.
[01:15:03.860 --> 01:15:04.480] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[01:15:04.900 --> 01:15:12.260] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm going to throw in something that has nothing to do with anything before I get to the other thing I actually called about.
[01:15:13.700 --> 01:15:24.000] [SPEAKER_10]: The Chronicles of Narnia Complete Seven Book Collection is free on Kindle today for anyone who's interested in that.
[01:15:24.940 --> 01:15:25.300] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[01:15:26.680 --> 01:15:27.620] [SPEAKER_06]: That came out of nowhere?
[01:15:28.100 --> 01:15:28.460] [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.
[01:15:28.720 --> 01:15:28.940] [SPEAKER_06]: Why not?
[01:15:28.960 --> 01:15:30.320] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, that came out of nowhere.
[01:15:30.660 --> 01:15:31.500] [SPEAKER_10]: Free e-book.
[01:15:32.800 --> 01:15:33.160] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[01:15:35.260 --> 01:15:38.280] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, three seven-book collections.
[01:15:38.420 --> 01:15:41.740] [SPEAKER_06]: And Amazon's not going to take it back when they change their mind?
[01:15:43.800 --> 01:15:44.160] [SPEAKER_10]: Apparently.
[01:15:44.560 --> 01:15:46.540] [SPEAKER_05]: Are they, like, trying to get you to read it all in one day?
[01:15:47.200 --> 01:15:48.860] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I never trust them.
[01:15:50.020 --> 01:15:51.920] [SPEAKER_10]: No, but it's...
[01:15:52.580 --> 01:15:53.920] [SPEAKER_10]: The seven-book collection...
[01:15:53.920 --> 01:15:56.940] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe is wonderful.
[01:15:58.060 --> 01:16:01.360] [SPEAKER_10]: And also, the Magician's Nephew is wonderful.
[01:16:01.760 --> 01:16:05.400] [SPEAKER_10]: The other ones, you know, I can do without them.
[01:16:05.560 --> 01:16:09.860] [SPEAKER_10]: The Last Battle, you know, is okay.
[01:16:09.860 --> 01:16:11.520] [SPEAKER_10]: Careful, careful there.
[01:16:11.680 --> 01:16:17.020] [SPEAKER_06]: You risk angering people of many, many...
[01:16:17.020 --> 01:16:21.940] [SPEAKER_10]: Anybody can get the King Pleat Collection and read all of it.
[01:16:22.280 --> 01:16:38.720] [SPEAKER_10]: So, but the other thing I called about was to plead with you guys, one or all of you, to run for the WBAI local station board.
[01:16:38.720 --> 01:16:44.520] [SPEAKER_10]: There are no, as in zero, people running for staff.
[01:16:44.820 --> 01:16:45.840] [SPEAKER_10]: Zero people.
[01:16:46.440 --> 01:16:48.200] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, there are three...
[01:16:48.200 --> 01:16:49.600] [SPEAKER_10]: We have three seats.
[01:16:49.760 --> 01:16:50.900] [SPEAKER_06]: There are people running.
[01:16:51.080 --> 01:17:00.340] [SPEAKER_06]: They're just running in the other direction, trying to get away from the insanity that happens at these gatherings and meetings and things like that.
[01:17:00.360 --> 01:17:01.320] [SPEAKER_06]: I've heard stories.
[01:17:02.480 --> 01:17:10.580] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, we need good people on the local station board, sane people.
[01:17:11.280 --> 01:17:22.120] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, people who've signed up as nominators for staff, they've signed up and there are no names for them to nominate or decline to nominate.
[01:17:22.340 --> 01:17:24.800] [SPEAKER_10]: No one is running for staff.
[01:17:25.000 --> 01:17:29.320] [SPEAKER_10]: There's not enough people who are running as listener members.
[01:17:30.260 --> 01:17:32.760] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, we need to have nine good people.
[01:17:33.900 --> 01:17:37.180] [SPEAKER_10]: And there are not enough people running for that.
[01:17:37.480 --> 01:17:37.760] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[01:17:37.820 --> 01:17:38.820] [SPEAKER_06]: Let me ask you a question.
[01:17:39.840 --> 01:17:40.840] [SPEAKER_06]: You are staff.
[01:17:41.060 --> 01:17:41.660] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we're staff.
[01:17:41.760 --> 01:17:42.100] [SPEAKER_06]: That's true.
[01:17:42.720 --> 01:17:44.960] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, first of all, when is the deadline for each of these?
[01:17:47.000 --> 01:17:55.500] [SPEAKER_10]: You have to sign up, you have to declare your candidacy, sorry, by June 30th.
[01:17:55.580 --> 01:18:00.500] [SPEAKER_10]: But you also have to get your nominations in by June 30th.
[01:18:00.680 --> 01:18:03.020] [SPEAKER_10]: So you don't want to wait till the last day.
[01:18:03.240 --> 01:18:03.420] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[01:18:04.000 --> 01:18:10.480] [SPEAKER_10]: Of course, if there's five of you, you can all nominate each other and you can do it all on the line.
[01:18:10.480 --> 01:18:13.700] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'm not sure an Off The Hook dominated board is what anybody wants.
[01:18:13.820 --> 01:18:22.720] [SPEAKER_06]: But as far as listeners, because we do have a lot of listeners here and, of course, all the people that download the program.
[01:18:22.920 --> 01:18:30.580] [SPEAKER_06]: So can you tell them what is involved if they decide to sign up and what they have to do in order to qualify to be able to sign up?
[01:18:30.580 --> 01:18:33.980] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, do they have to be an actual human person in that one?
[01:18:35.080 --> 01:18:38.180] [SPEAKER_10]: You have to be more than that.
[01:18:38.460 --> 01:18:45.320] [SPEAKER_10]: Not only do you have to be an actual human person, you need to be a member of WBAI.
[01:18:45.500 --> 01:18:58.900] [SPEAKER_10]: You have to have contributed $25 or three hours as a volunteer between July 1st of last year and June 30th of this year.
[01:18:59.480 --> 01:19:07.100] [SPEAKER_06]: So if somebody calls up 212-209-2950, donates $25, they qualify, they can run?
[01:19:08.500 --> 01:19:09.360] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, they can.
[01:19:09.620 --> 01:19:10.800] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, so it's that simple.
[01:19:10.860 --> 01:19:12.840] [SPEAKER_06]: That would include anybody that had donated, right?
[01:19:13.580 --> 01:19:14.640] [SPEAKER_06]: In that period of time.
[01:19:14.640 --> 01:19:16.020] [SPEAKER_06]: In that period of time, $25?
[01:19:16.340 --> 01:19:19.160] [SPEAKER_10]: Anyone who does within that one-year period.
[01:19:19.500 --> 01:19:22.280] [SPEAKER_10]: And you write a little statement.
[01:19:22.460 --> 01:19:28.820] [SPEAKER_10]: There's a box that will give you up to 300 words, and there's another one that will give you up to 500 words.
[01:19:28.900 --> 01:19:35.060] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I got to say, I can't speak for us right now because we've got so many things on our plate.
[01:19:35.620 --> 01:19:44.080] [SPEAKER_06]: But I do think this might be something that listeners off the hook particularly might take an interest in because it's so easy to qualify.
[01:19:44.720 --> 01:19:50.400] [SPEAKER_06]: And because we have such diverse opinions, and we'd like to see that represented.
[01:19:50.620 --> 01:19:55.280] [SPEAKER_06]: So I echo your invitation for people to look into that.
[01:19:55.380 --> 01:19:56.620] [SPEAKER_06]: How can people look into it?
[01:19:57.400 --> 01:19:58.180] [SPEAKER_06]: Where do they go?
[01:19:58.180 --> 01:19:58.700] [SPEAKER_06]: What do they do?
[01:20:00.360 --> 01:20:03.020] [SPEAKER_10]: Go to the Pacifica website.
[01:20:03.640 --> 01:20:04.260] [SPEAKER_06]: Which is?
[01:20:05.360 --> 01:20:09.160] [SPEAKER_10]: And then you click on...
[01:20:09.160 --> 01:20:10.040] [SPEAKER_10]: We don't know.
[01:20:10.140 --> 01:20:10.540] [SPEAKER_06]: Wait, hold on.
[01:20:10.580 --> 01:20:11.980] [SPEAKER_06]: We don't know what the Pacifica website is.
[01:20:12.180 --> 01:20:13.400] [SPEAKER_06]: You've got to tell us the address.
[01:20:13.740 --> 01:20:15.020] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, every detail we need.
[01:20:16.460 --> 01:20:18.480] [SPEAKER_10]: H-T-T-P-S.
[01:20:18.500 --> 01:20:20.240] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we don't need that part.
[01:20:20.400 --> 01:20:20.900] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, fine.
[01:20:20.900 --> 01:20:21.820] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:20:22.280 --> 01:20:27.660] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I've heard you say that it's important to know about that part.
[01:20:27.760 --> 01:20:30.000] [SPEAKER_10]: But anyway, Pacifica.org.
[01:20:30.900 --> 01:20:32.360] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, that's sufficient.
[01:20:32.860 --> 01:20:33.980] [SPEAKER_10]: Pacifica.org.
[01:20:34.020 --> 01:20:36.600] [SPEAKER_10]: And then there's a column, and it has...
[01:20:36.600 --> 01:20:39.940] [SPEAKER_10]: At the top of the column, it's got elections and balloting.
[01:20:40.260 --> 01:20:40.720] [SPEAKER_10]: Click here.
[01:20:42.560 --> 01:20:46.280] [SPEAKER_10]: So you click here on that.
[01:20:46.420 --> 01:20:48.340] [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm doing it as I speak.
[01:20:49.300 --> 01:20:53.440] [SPEAKER_10]: And then there's a page that has a whole bunch of things.
[01:20:53.860 --> 01:20:57.480] [SPEAKER_10]: One of them is how to run in the Pacifica delegate election.
[01:20:57.480 --> 01:21:02.060] [SPEAKER_10]: And the next one is candidate sign-up page.
[01:21:02.860 --> 01:21:05.500] [SPEAKER_10]: And then there's nomination guide.
[01:21:05.500 --> 01:21:07.780] [SPEAKER_10]: And then there's nominator sign-up page.
[01:21:07.920 --> 01:21:15.020] [SPEAKER_10]: If you do not want to run, if that's too much for you, you can still become a nominator.
[01:21:15.540 --> 01:21:21.400] [SPEAKER_10]: Everyone who runs, the staff need to have five staff members nominate them.
[01:21:21.520 --> 01:21:24.640] [SPEAKER_10]: And the person can be... can nominate themselves.
[01:21:24.860 --> 01:21:27.240] [SPEAKER_10]: So they have to get themselves and four others.
[01:21:27.480 --> 01:21:30.840] [SPEAKER_06]: So I could go on there, and I could nominate Alex, for example.
[01:21:31.820 --> 01:21:32.400] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[01:21:32.820 --> 01:21:35.080] [SPEAKER_10]: And Alex could also nominate himself.
[01:21:35.340 --> 01:21:40.720] [SPEAKER_10]: And you have five people in total, including yourself, if you're staff.
[01:21:41.180 --> 01:21:48.240] [SPEAKER_10]: If you're a listener member, as the people who are listening are, you have to get 15 people.
[01:21:50.220 --> 01:21:52.440] [SPEAKER_10]: Including yourself as one of the 15.
[01:21:53.520 --> 01:22:01.040] [SPEAKER_10]: And if you happen to know any of these people, and if they feel like sending you an email.
[01:22:01.380 --> 01:22:05.780] [SPEAKER_10]: Because last year, the NES would say, you didn't get enough people.
[01:22:05.940 --> 01:22:10.760] [SPEAKER_10]: And people were being asked to show documentation of who signed up.
[01:22:10.880 --> 01:22:13.620] [SPEAKER_10]: And they don't even necessarily even know.
[01:22:13.720 --> 01:22:14.780] [SPEAKER_10]: Hang on, I'm a little confused here.
[01:22:14.780 --> 01:22:16.720] [SPEAKER_06]: You say a listener needs 15...
[01:22:16.720 --> 01:22:18.220] [SPEAKER_06]: They need 15 nominees?
[01:22:18.580 --> 01:22:19.100] [SPEAKER_06]: A listener?
[01:22:19.180 --> 01:22:20.320] [SPEAKER_06]: How are they going to get 15 nominees?
[01:22:23.440 --> 01:22:24.960] [SPEAKER_10]: Nominators have a...
[01:22:24.960 --> 01:22:25.000] [SPEAKER_10]: Nominators.
[01:22:25.000 --> 01:22:26.840] [SPEAKER_10]: It will be a list of people running.
[01:22:27.760 --> 01:22:28.100] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[01:22:28.160 --> 01:22:32.720] [SPEAKER_10]: And they check a box for the ones that they want to nominate.
[01:22:33.200 --> 01:22:34.820] [SPEAKER_06]: But our listeners don't know each other.
[01:22:34.820 --> 01:22:37.340] [SPEAKER_06]: So how are they going to nominate each other?
[01:22:37.720 --> 01:22:38.840] [SPEAKER_06]: That's what I don't understand.
[01:22:40.720 --> 01:22:44.140] [SPEAKER_10]: As I said, you sign up as a nominator.
[01:22:44.400 --> 01:22:44.760] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:22:45.300 --> 01:22:47.260] [SPEAKER_10]: And then when you...
[01:22:48.360 --> 01:22:50.020] [SPEAKER_10]: First you sign up as a member.
[01:22:50.420 --> 01:22:50.820] Okay.
[01:22:51.020 --> 01:22:52.780] [SPEAKER_10]: And then you sign up as a nominator.
[01:22:52.880 --> 01:22:59.000] [SPEAKER_10]: And then they should send you a confirmation thing with a code to get in.
[01:22:59.080 --> 01:23:06.540] [SPEAKER_10]: And if they don't do that within a day or two, you have to write the National Election Supervisor and Compliance.
[01:23:06.620 --> 01:23:06.800] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:23:06.860 --> 01:23:07.640] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, let's assume they do it.
[01:23:07.840 --> 01:23:08.780] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's assume they do that.
[01:23:08.780 --> 01:23:09.080] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:23:09.300 --> 01:23:11.620] [SPEAKER_10]: So they get the code and they go in.
[01:23:11.680 --> 01:23:11.840] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:23:12.320 --> 01:23:14.980] [SPEAKER_10]: And their box...
[01:23:16.460 --> 01:23:17.020] [SPEAKER_10]: Their...
[01:23:17.020 --> 01:23:17.600] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's see.
[01:23:18.220 --> 01:23:21.840] [SPEAKER_10]: I'll look at my own box because I'm a nominator.
[01:23:25.380 --> 01:23:25.940] [SPEAKER_10]: And...
[01:23:25.940 --> 01:23:27.820] [SPEAKER_06]: You're a listener nominator or a staff nominator?
[01:23:28.640 --> 01:23:30.380] [SPEAKER_10]: I am a listener nominator.
[01:23:30.440 --> 01:23:30.700] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[01:23:31.060 --> 01:23:31.320] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[01:23:32.480 --> 01:23:35.960] [SPEAKER_10]: And so I see a list of names.
[01:23:37.080 --> 01:23:41.680] [SPEAKER_10]: And I have checked Rachel Barr and John David Brinkley.
[01:23:41.700 --> 01:23:45.700] [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe you don't tell us exactly who you're checking, but how do you know...
[01:23:45.700 --> 01:23:52.580] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, those people you might know, but if, say, one of our listeners registers, how would you know them?
[01:23:52.580 --> 01:23:53.980] [SPEAKER_06]: How would you know they're a good candidate?
[01:23:55.800 --> 01:24:04.460] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you could have listened to the local station board meetings.
[01:24:05.020 --> 01:24:06.180] [SPEAKER_10]: That's one way.
[01:24:07.740 --> 01:24:08.620] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't...
[01:24:08.620 --> 01:24:09.260] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't follow...
[01:24:09.260 --> 01:24:09.900] [SPEAKER_10]: Or you could have...
[01:24:09.900 --> 01:24:12.540] [SPEAKER_10]: Or you could be on the public listserv.
[01:24:12.820 --> 01:24:13.200] [SPEAKER_10]: And when...
[01:24:13.200 --> 01:24:13.460] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[01:24:13.580 --> 01:24:14.080] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:24:14.140 --> 01:24:18.480] [SPEAKER_10]: ...people post things, then you get to read them and see what you think of them.
[01:24:18.480 --> 01:24:18.840] [SPEAKER_10]: So, wait.
[01:24:18.880 --> 01:24:19.700] [SPEAKER_06]: A listener...
[01:24:19.700 --> 01:24:21.060] [SPEAKER_06]: A listener wants to run.
[01:24:21.320 --> 01:24:22.720] [SPEAKER_06]: I assume they don't just put their name.
[01:24:22.720 --> 01:24:27.640] [SPEAKER_06]: They actually have to write something to explain where they stand on certain things.
[01:24:27.700 --> 01:24:28.460] [SPEAKER_06]: Is that what you're saying?
[01:24:29.960 --> 01:24:36.300] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, there's a box that's up to 300 words, and then there's another box that's up to 500 words.
[01:24:36.300 --> 01:24:36.580] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:24:36.820 --> 01:24:37.240] [SPEAKER_10]: I get it.
[01:24:37.240 --> 01:24:39.800] [SPEAKER_10]: You have to put something in each of those boxes.
[01:24:39.800 --> 01:24:41.680] [SPEAKER_10]: It can be the same thing in both of them.
[01:24:41.840 --> 01:24:42.060] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[01:24:42.100 --> 01:24:43.380] [SPEAKER_06]: Gila has something to add to this.
[01:24:43.540 --> 01:24:43.980] [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead, Gila.
[01:24:44.720 --> 01:24:45.120] [SPEAKER_07]: Sorry.
[01:24:45.200 --> 01:24:48.780] [SPEAKER_07]: We are getting feedback from YouTube that people cannot hear our caller.
[01:24:49.460 --> 01:24:53.600] [SPEAKER_07]: So, caller, if you could either speak louder and or, guys, if you could turn the board up.
[01:24:54.060 --> 01:24:57.500] [SPEAKER_06]: The board is up to its max because this call was low to begin with.
[01:24:57.500 --> 01:24:58.280] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[01:24:58.360 --> 01:25:00.920] [SPEAKER_07]: Caller, you need to speak up, please.
[01:25:01.220 --> 01:25:01.620] [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you.
[01:25:02.980 --> 01:25:08.040] [SPEAKER_10]: I will yell, okay, since I'm being told to yell.
[01:25:08.600 --> 01:25:33.020] [SPEAKER_10]: You go to pacifica.org after you've become a member, and you sign up to become a nominator, and you'll get an acknowledgement with a code, and you sign in, and then there's a list of names, and you can check the boxes, like Rachel Barr or John David Brinkley,
[01:25:33.300 --> 01:25:35.140] [SPEAKER_10]: that you want to nominate.
[01:25:43.520 --> 01:25:53.940] [SPEAKER_10]: So, it's pretty easy as long as the system works properly and sends you your code and your code works.
[01:25:53.940 --> 01:26:15.880] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, thank you for imploring us and others to get involved, because structurally, this is how the organization and the local station is actually run, by the listeners and by us to a degree, by voting on people that take this on.
[01:26:15.880 --> 01:26:21.060] [SPEAKER_05]: So, that is really helpful, just explaining it, and thank you again for imploring us to get involved.
[01:26:21.140 --> 01:26:30.560] [SPEAKER_06]: And can I just ask, on behalf of listeners, please, on behalf of listeners, what is it that they would have the power to do if they were elected?
[01:26:32.320 --> 01:26:42.320] [SPEAKER_10]: You would be at the local station board meetings, and you would be able to make motions, and you would be able to vote.
[01:26:43.260 --> 01:27:02.360] [SPEAKER_10]: And also, if there are executive sessions, you get to go to the executive sessions that nobody else gets to hear about things like, you know, people being in danger of being sacked or whatever.
[01:27:03.180 --> 01:27:15.280] [SPEAKER_10]: Let me again repeat, for those who didn't hear, there are zero staff members running, and there are not enough listener candidates, either.
[01:27:17.140 --> 01:27:25.620] [SPEAKER_06]: And the webpage, pacifica.org, pacifica.org, and what's, is there a tab or a button to press after you go there?
[01:27:25.620 --> 01:27:34.220] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, at the top left, there's the thing for voting.
[01:27:34.780 --> 01:27:39.800] [SPEAKER_10]: And you click this thing on voting, and elections.
[01:27:40.720 --> 01:27:51.040] [SPEAKER_10]: And then it has how to run in the pacifica delegate election, candidate sign-up page, nomination guide, nominator sign-up page.
[01:27:51.280 --> 01:27:54.000] [SPEAKER_10]: And then it has fair campaign provisions.
[01:27:54.440 --> 01:28:09.160] [SPEAKER_10]: For instance, if you're running, which I'm not, because I'm already on the board, if you're running, you must not speak on the air during this campaign season.
[01:28:09.840 --> 01:28:13.940] [SPEAKER_10]: Or, you know, terrible things will happen to you, you can be booted out.
[01:28:14.340 --> 01:28:16.760] [SPEAKER_06]: Wait a minute, if we were all running, we couldn't be on the air?
[01:28:17.680 --> 01:28:18.640] [SPEAKER_10]: No, no, no, no, no.
[01:28:18.660 --> 01:28:20.460] [SPEAKER_10]: If you're a listener member.
[01:28:20.680 --> 01:28:21.380] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, only listeners.
[01:28:21.660 --> 01:28:21.880] [SPEAKER_06]: Weird.
[01:28:22.080 --> 01:28:22.220] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[01:28:22.700 --> 01:28:23.320] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, yes.
[01:28:23.560 --> 01:28:28.620] [SPEAKER_10]: Staff members who are doing this show, of course, they can be.
[01:28:30.080 --> 01:28:33.420] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, they're getting staff members to nominate them.
[01:28:33.820 --> 01:28:36.200] [SPEAKER_06]: And staff members would be voting for them.
[01:28:36.360 --> 01:28:41.560] [SPEAKER_06]: How are they going to know if a listener is talking on the air, like, you know, for instance, Since you, if you called the show...
[01:28:41.560 --> 01:28:55.380] [SPEAKER_10]: You are supposed to have a list of listener candidates, or possible listener candidates, and you are supposed to screen and make sure they don't go on.
[01:28:55.440 --> 01:28:58.840] [SPEAKER_10]: But of course, you are not taking listener phone calls...
[01:28:58.840 --> 01:29:00.360] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, now I really don't want to.
[01:29:00.380 --> 01:29:01.460] [SPEAKER_06]: So you don't need to worry.
[01:29:01.600 --> 01:29:03.700] [SPEAKER_06]: How would I keep track of who's calling in, though?
[01:29:03.700 --> 01:29:04.320] [SPEAKER_06]: That's insane.
[01:29:04.480 --> 01:29:06.000] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't have the ability to do that.
[01:29:06.160 --> 01:29:07.540] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't want the ability to do that.
[01:29:07.540 --> 01:29:15.100] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, well, as I say, it's a good thing you're not taking calls on the air, because you do need to do that.
[01:29:15.740 --> 01:29:16.480] [SPEAKER_06]: Wow, okay.
[01:29:17.220 --> 01:29:18.760] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I think we've gotten the word out.
[01:29:18.780 --> 01:29:18.940] [SPEAKER_06]: But you're safe.
[01:29:19.180 --> 01:29:20.520] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, no, I feel safe.
[01:29:21.000 --> 01:29:25.220] [SPEAKER_06]: I think we've gotten the word out, and we will continue to spread the information.
[01:29:25.540 --> 01:29:28.220] [SPEAKER_06]: And again, June 30th is the deadline to do all this.
[01:29:28.360 --> 01:29:30.960] [SPEAKER_06]: And I imagine people don't have to be there physically, right?
[01:29:31.040 --> 01:29:31.780] [SPEAKER_06]: They can do this virtually?
[01:29:32.880 --> 01:29:34.280] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yes, definitely.
[01:29:34.980 --> 01:29:37.240] [SPEAKER_10]: Ever since COVID, everything is virtual.
[01:29:37.760 --> 01:29:40.380] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, so those of you looking for an adventure, this could be it.
[01:29:41.180 --> 01:29:43.000] [SPEAKER_06]: Pacifica.org, and just follow through.
[01:29:43.580 --> 01:29:44.600] [SPEAKER_06]: And we'll see what happens.
[01:29:45.440 --> 01:29:46.440] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks so much for your call.
[01:29:46.580 --> 01:29:46.840] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks.
[01:29:47.460 --> 01:29:48.340] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, you take care.
[01:29:50.580 --> 01:29:51.400] [SPEAKER_06]: That was interesting.
[01:29:51.580 --> 01:29:53.380] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, that was an exercise in democracy.
[01:29:53.660 --> 01:29:54.480] [SPEAKER_06]: You guys have anything to add?
[01:29:54.560 --> 01:29:55.080] [SPEAKER_06]: Aguila, go ahead.
[01:29:55.760 --> 01:30:01.940] [SPEAKER_07]: Just to clarify, you can also get to the information a little quicker by visiting elections.pacifica.org.
[01:30:02.800 --> 01:30:10.380] [SPEAKER_07]: You don't have to visit the charming Pacifica home landing page, which is real fun.
[01:30:10.640 --> 01:30:14.580] [SPEAKER_07]: Elections.pacifica.org does have all the information about Pacifica elections.
[01:30:15.040 --> 01:30:20.660] [SPEAKER_07]: Also, I know there was a question in the chat about why we didn't mention this on air.
[01:30:21.360 --> 01:30:27.380] [SPEAKER_07]: And Rob very rightly pointed out that the station has been talking about this.
[01:30:27.560 --> 01:30:28.520] [SPEAKER_07]: There are carts on the air.
[01:30:28.960 --> 01:30:33.100] [SPEAKER_07]: But we can't pick what the callers talk about.
[01:30:33.480 --> 01:30:43.380] [SPEAKER_07]: And again, it's particularly ironic that the person who registered a complaint that we took this call talks about things that have nothing to do with what we're talking about and managed not to call this evening.
[01:30:43.580 --> 01:30:44.280] [SPEAKER_07]: Just putting that out there.
[01:30:44.280 --> 01:30:47.420] [SPEAKER_07]: Although, I probably just brought him down.
[01:30:48.420 --> 01:30:48.820] [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway.
[01:30:51.320 --> 01:30:52.700] [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you, everybody, for the chat.
[01:30:52.920 --> 01:30:56.720] [SPEAKER_07]: Also, Fun Socks, just for the record, I don't know sign language.
[01:30:56.720 --> 01:31:05.420] [SPEAKER_07]: I am happy to be the voice of the people on the chat, but we can't put me into the background doing sign language in a little window yet.
[01:31:05.440 --> 01:31:06.040] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, come on, Aguila.
[01:31:06.200 --> 01:31:06.840] [SPEAKER_05]: You could do that.
[01:31:07.300 --> 01:31:08.660] [SPEAKER_05]: You want picture in picture?
[01:31:08.800 --> 01:31:09.540] [SPEAKER_05]: I can do that.
[01:31:09.680 --> 01:31:10.200] [SPEAKER_05]: Do it like they do.
[01:31:10.360 --> 01:31:11.440] [SPEAKER_06]: Have you seen UK television?
[01:31:11.680 --> 01:31:13.260] [SPEAKER_06]: They have open captioning.
[01:31:13.260 --> 01:31:18.220] [SPEAKER_06]: Where you have closed captioning, they have open captioning, which is somebody standing there doing that on the news.
[01:31:18.380 --> 01:31:21.000] [SPEAKER_06]: And it's not just a little circle on the bottom.
[01:31:21.140 --> 01:31:22.320] [SPEAKER_06]: It's like half the screen.
[01:31:22.540 --> 01:31:23.660] [SPEAKER_06]: It really is...
[01:31:23.660 --> 01:31:25.640] [SPEAKER_06]: It's worth watching, just for that.
[01:31:26.020 --> 01:31:26.440] [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[01:31:26.460 --> 01:31:27.260] [SPEAKER_07]: I got some work to do.
[01:31:27.400 --> 01:31:27.560] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[01:31:27.780 --> 01:31:28.480] [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead, Rob.
[01:31:30.140 --> 01:31:39.760] [SPEAKER_01]: Apropos of nothing related to what we're talking about, but very interesting indeed on Mastodon, Toroidal Core informs us that Field Day is this weekend.
[01:31:39.760 --> 01:31:54.960] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're an amateur radio person, and I want to give a shout out to this, the National Association for Amateur Radio at ARRL.org is wrangling ARRL Field Day, June 22nd to 23rd.
[01:31:55.240 --> 01:31:57.640] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's always held on the fourth full weekend in June.
[01:31:57.820 --> 01:31:59.200] [SPEAKER_01]: There are events all over the place.
[01:31:59.360 --> 01:32:03.720] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a map where you can find one near you and social media stuff and all of that.
[01:32:03.720 --> 01:32:15.140] [SPEAKER_01]: Just go to ARRL.org and click the Field Day stuff to get going on there, because definitely things of interest if you are into radio, ham radio, amateur radio, all that good stuff.
[01:32:15.180 --> 01:32:20.420] [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, if you're into that, consider Hope as well, because we're going to have a lot of activity as far as ham radio goes.
[01:32:20.540 --> 01:32:23.140] [SPEAKER_06]: We're going to have a ham radio station operating.
[01:32:23.140 --> 01:32:27.820] [SPEAKER_06]: We're going to have all kinds of people giving workshops, showing you how you can get your ham radio license.
[01:32:28.460 --> 01:32:33.920] [SPEAKER_06]: It's really, you know, for that alone, it's really fascinating and interesting and inspirational.
[01:32:34.980 --> 01:32:38.320] [SPEAKER_06]: And it's just one of the things that's going to be going on over at Hope.
[01:32:38.640 --> 01:32:40.860] [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, we were also, we were talking about old technology.
[01:32:41.380 --> 01:32:48.760] [SPEAKER_06]: The vintage computer people are going to be there as well with a massive display and all kinds of things to learn about.
[01:32:49.740 --> 01:32:56.620] [SPEAKER_06]: So old technology, new technology, it's all going to be studied and discussed and demonstrated.
[01:32:56.620 --> 01:32:57.800] [SPEAKER_06]: It's always fun.
[01:32:59.900 --> 01:33:00.640] [SPEAKER_06]: Do we have a call?
[01:33:00.980 --> 01:33:01.260] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[01:33:01.540 --> 01:33:01.980] [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead, Rob.
[01:33:03.540 --> 01:33:04.220] [SPEAKER_01]: Please take the call.
[01:33:04.400 --> 01:33:04.560] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[01:33:05.060 --> 01:33:05.620] [SPEAKER_06]: I'll do that.
[01:33:05.980 --> 01:33:06.580] [SPEAKER_06]: And good evening.
[01:33:06.720 --> 01:33:07.480] [SPEAKER_06]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:33:07.560 --> 01:33:07.740] [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[01:33:08.900 --> 01:33:09.460] [SPEAKER_06]: Hi, Emmanuel.
[01:33:09.740 --> 01:33:10.640] [SPEAKER_06]: Back from Europe.
[01:33:10.840 --> 01:33:12.400] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, we were starting to get worried about you, Rebel.
[01:33:12.760 --> 01:33:16.940] [SPEAKER_06]: We weren't hearing from you and we figured maybe, you know, you had gone to a gulag somewhere.
[01:33:17.900 --> 01:33:21.620] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, no, actually, I was supposed to, I was going to call last week, but I was just lazy.
[01:33:21.760 --> 01:33:24.280] [SPEAKER_09]: I was in Ireland and I just was, I fell asleep.
[01:33:24.420 --> 01:33:27.740] [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't, you know, because it was one o'clock in the morning by the, I'd say, eight nights.
[01:33:27.920 --> 01:33:28.980] [SPEAKER_06]: It's a peaceful country.
[01:33:28.980 --> 01:33:29.540] [SPEAKER_06]: I know that.
[01:33:29.620 --> 01:33:32.300] [SPEAKER_06]: And people do fall asleep a lot, but there's no excuse.
[01:33:32.440 --> 01:33:33.020] [SPEAKER_06]: You should call us.
[01:33:33.060 --> 01:33:33.360] [SPEAKER_06]: We worry.
[01:33:34.360 --> 01:33:39.960] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you know, I was in Israel because I was helping my friend move some things there.
[01:33:40.120 --> 01:33:41.740] [SPEAKER_06]: Did you sort things out over there?
[01:33:41.840 --> 01:33:42.400] [SPEAKER_06]: I hope so.
[01:33:43.560 --> 01:33:46.960] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's kind of boring country.
[01:33:47.240 --> 01:33:48.300] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, not much going on.
[01:33:48.720 --> 01:33:50.260] [SPEAKER_06]: It's very, very dull.
[01:33:51.120 --> 01:33:55.040] [SPEAKER_09]: But, you know, coming back, it was really surprising.
[01:33:55.320 --> 01:34:02.600] [SPEAKER_09]: I was at the airport, I was going to Italy from Israel, you know, and, you know, security, you think Israel would have all this security?
[01:34:02.800 --> 01:34:05.060] [SPEAKER_09]: No, it's like being in the 1980s.
[01:34:05.320 --> 01:34:10.160] [SPEAKER_09]: You go to a, regularly, you know, like those metal detectors you see in the, like, the federal buildings.
[01:34:11.440 --> 01:34:13.200] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you're leaving Israel.
[01:34:14.060 --> 01:34:21.960] [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe it doesn't matter as much if you're going someplace else, but when you go there, I understand there's, there's a lot of security.
[01:34:22.720 --> 01:34:24.880] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but you're not even going there.
[01:34:25.060 --> 01:34:26.780] [SPEAKER_09]: You don't have to take off your shoes.
[01:34:27.160 --> 01:34:29.040] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but that's, that's nonsense.
[01:34:29.420 --> 01:34:30.320] [SPEAKER_06]: Rebel, that is nonsense.
[01:34:30.540 --> 01:34:32.240] [SPEAKER_06]: Taking off your shoes does absolutely nothing.
[01:34:32.540 --> 01:34:35.580] [SPEAKER_06]: So, I mean, not having that does not mean you're off security.
[01:34:35.900 --> 01:34:37.740] [SPEAKER_09]: You don't have to do that in Israel.
[01:34:37.880 --> 01:34:39.240] [SPEAKER_09]: You don't have to do that in Portugal.
[01:34:39.620 --> 01:34:44.380] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, because people are grown up because people don't do stupid things like that because they don't work.
[01:34:44.520 --> 01:34:45.280] [SPEAKER_06]: They don't mean anything.
[01:34:45.280 --> 01:34:47.320] [SPEAKER_06]: It's got nothing to do with their level of security.
[01:34:48.820 --> 01:34:50.720] [SPEAKER_09]: And the aliens are really annoying.
[01:34:50.840 --> 01:34:51.620] [SPEAKER_09]: I thought they were lying.
[01:34:51.880 --> 01:34:52.640] [SPEAKER_09]: They had to discount it.
[01:34:52.720 --> 01:34:53.560] [SPEAKER_09]: I remember.
[01:34:53.860 --> 01:34:56.820] [SPEAKER_06]: I was taking a plane somewhere in Europe, I think.
[01:34:57.260 --> 01:34:58.640] [SPEAKER_06]: And this is true.
[01:34:58.800 --> 01:35:02.720] [SPEAKER_06]: The rule was, if you're American, you take off your shoes.
[01:35:02.800 --> 01:35:04.240] [SPEAKER_06]: Everybody else stand in this line.
[01:35:04.540 --> 01:35:12.780] [SPEAKER_06]: So literally, only the Americans had to do that, because there's a rule about America that, yeah, you got to take off your shoes, but nobody else does that.
[01:35:12.860 --> 01:35:15.720] [SPEAKER_06]: So if you're a European citizen, you get to keep your shoes on.
[01:35:15.840 --> 01:35:16.660] [SPEAKER_06]: What does that prove?
[01:35:17.120 --> 01:35:18.620] [SPEAKER_06]: How does that make us safer?
[01:35:19.140 --> 01:35:26.000] [SPEAKER_09]: I think, you know, going, coming back from Ireland, you know, they say that you have to go through American, like U.S. preclearance.
[01:35:27.680 --> 01:35:29.860] [SPEAKER_09]: And I thought it was just, you know, like, because I did this in Turkey.
[01:35:30.040 --> 01:35:30.860] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I know what you did.
[01:35:30.940 --> 01:35:31.080] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:35:31.460 --> 01:35:34.240] [SPEAKER_09]: Just go through a regular, you know, another security.
[01:35:34.400 --> 01:35:39.320] [SPEAKER_06]: And what happened to you, you wound up, you wound up trapped downstairs, didn't you?
[01:35:39.400 --> 01:35:43.120] [SPEAKER_09]: And you couldn't leave because you were... No, it was U.S., really, it was U.S.
[01:35:43.320 --> 01:35:43.680] [SPEAKER_09]: customs.
[01:35:44.160 --> 01:35:44.880] [SPEAKER_09]: I know.
[01:35:45.200 --> 01:35:48.160] [SPEAKER_09]: In the U.S., getting customs, going through customs.
[01:35:48.320 --> 01:35:48.700] [SPEAKER_06]: In Ireland.
[01:35:48.820 --> 01:35:49.000] [SPEAKER_06]: Really?
[01:35:49.160 --> 01:35:50.020] [SPEAKER_06]: In Ireland, yes.
[01:35:50.120 --> 01:35:50.780] [SPEAKER_06]: I know.
[01:35:52.400 --> 01:35:53.220] [SPEAKER_06]: It's outrageous.
[01:35:53.600 --> 01:35:53.960] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, my God.
[01:35:53.960 --> 01:35:59.760] [SPEAKER_06]: But the thing is, you think, you think it's convenient, but then you wind up not able to leave the place that you just went through customs.
[01:35:59.920 --> 01:36:01.660] [SPEAKER_06]: You can't go to the rest of the airport.
[01:36:01.920 --> 01:36:06.360] [SPEAKER_06]: And there's not that much down there that, you know, you can... Expensive sandwiches.
[01:36:06.360 --> 01:36:09.440] [SPEAKER_06]: They don't have bars or... Yeah, it sucks.
[01:36:09.440 --> 01:36:11.340] [SPEAKER_06]: And I don't understand it.
[01:36:12.020 --> 01:36:15.980] [SPEAKER_09]: But I have never gone through customs in the country that I'm leaving.
[01:36:16.300 --> 01:36:17.520] [SPEAKER_06]: You could do that in Canada, too.
[01:36:18.540 --> 01:36:18.840] [SPEAKER_06]: Really?
[01:36:18.960 --> 01:36:19.880] [SPEAKER_06]: There's other countries.
[01:36:20.080 --> 01:36:21.240] [SPEAKER_06]: There's other countries you can do that.
[01:36:21.380 --> 01:36:22.760] [SPEAKER_06]: Iceland has some...
[01:36:22.760 --> 01:36:23.580] [SPEAKER_06]: Iceland, yeah.
[01:36:24.440 --> 01:36:26.340] [SPEAKER_05]: You could check into the EU there.
[01:36:26.640 --> 01:36:27.700] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh, uh-huh, okay.
[01:36:28.120 --> 01:36:29.460] [SPEAKER_06]: It gets kind of complicated.
[01:36:29.600 --> 01:36:32.260] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that may be totally different than what you're saying.
[01:36:33.340 --> 01:36:34.980] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'm glad you got to experience that.
[01:36:34.980 --> 01:36:36.140] [SPEAKER_05]: Good for you.
[01:36:36.420 --> 01:36:38.500] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I mean, yeah, and I was...
[01:36:38.500 --> 01:36:42.020] [SPEAKER_09]: The airlines are so annoying because you have to, you know, check in online.
[01:36:42.120 --> 01:36:44.260] [SPEAKER_09]: Otherwise, you're going to pay a 50-year-old fee.
[01:36:44.860 --> 01:36:46.420] [SPEAKER_06]: What, if you don't check in online?
[01:36:47.080 --> 01:36:48.320] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think...
[01:36:48.320 --> 01:36:51.720] [SPEAKER_09]: It's like, since the pandemic, these airlines have been really...
[01:36:51.720 --> 01:36:53.600] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, this is Ryanair I'm talking about.
[01:36:53.700 --> 01:36:54.440] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, God.
[01:36:54.720 --> 01:36:58.200] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, the fact that you even were able to survive that at all.
[01:36:58.940 --> 01:36:59.680] [SPEAKER_06]: They make it...
[01:36:59.680 --> 01:36:59.960] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[01:37:00.160 --> 01:37:01.300] [SPEAKER_06]: They make it so unpleasant.
[01:37:01.300 --> 01:37:02.840] [SPEAKER_06]: They charge you for everything.
[01:37:03.180 --> 01:37:04.920] [SPEAKER_06]: They talk about charging you to go to the bathroom.
[01:37:04.920 --> 01:37:05.580] [SPEAKER_06]: At some point.
[01:37:06.100 --> 01:37:08.460] [SPEAKER_06]: But you can't carry on anything anymore.
[01:37:08.840 --> 01:37:12.000] [SPEAKER_06]: You're very limited in personal items.
[01:37:12.420 --> 01:37:14.600] [SPEAKER_06]: And, of course, checking bags now is a fortune.
[01:37:15.000 --> 01:37:18.860] [SPEAKER_06]: So you might get a good rate on your airline ticket.
[01:37:18.980 --> 01:37:20.280] [SPEAKER_06]: But that's only part of the picture.
[01:37:20.480 --> 01:37:21.820] [SPEAKER_06]: There's so much else that they get you for.
[01:37:22.700 --> 01:37:22.880] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[01:37:22.980 --> 01:37:23.720] [SPEAKER_09]: And if you don't pay...
[01:37:23.720 --> 01:37:24.480] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, if I was...
[01:37:24.480 --> 01:37:26.200] [SPEAKER_09]: And I had my smartphone.
[01:37:26.440 --> 01:37:27.540] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, we're talking about old technology.
[01:37:27.700 --> 01:37:29.300] [SPEAKER_09]: What if you had old technology?
[01:37:29.300 --> 01:37:31.240] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, okay, I can't check in.
[01:37:31.500 --> 01:37:32.860] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I have a flip phone.
[01:37:33.040 --> 01:37:37.980] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, you're going to have to pay $50 or euros or whatever, wherever you are.
[01:37:38.000 --> 01:37:40.540] [SPEAKER_09]: And because, you know, I can't check in.
[01:37:40.700 --> 01:37:43.420] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't have a way to check in online.
[01:37:43.720 --> 01:37:43.860] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:37:43.960 --> 01:37:46.260] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's your choice to not embrace the new technology.
[01:37:47.200 --> 01:37:47.600] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[01:37:47.800 --> 01:37:49.060] [SPEAKER_09]: That's what we're talking about old technology.
[01:37:49.400 --> 01:37:50.360] [SPEAKER_09]: And, let's see.
[01:37:50.380 --> 01:37:51.280] [SPEAKER_09]: I can't wait for hope.
[01:37:51.400 --> 01:37:54.340] [SPEAKER_09]: I hope there's going to be computer terminals like text-based terminals.
[01:37:56.000 --> 01:38:02.360] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, the Vintage Computer Festival, they may have just what you're talking about.
[01:38:02.360 --> 01:38:03.940] [SPEAKER_05]: At least for display.
[01:38:04.000 --> 01:38:06.080] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not sure if you can get your hands on it.
[01:38:06.120 --> 01:38:11.520] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe if you have them walk you through it a little bit, you might get to try a couple things.
[01:38:11.800 --> 01:38:13.100] [SPEAKER_06]: We'll get you to a terminal, Rebel.
[01:38:13.440 --> 01:38:14.620] [SPEAKER_06]: There's going to be something there.
[01:38:14.620 --> 01:38:15.280] [SPEAKER_06]: You can...
[01:38:15.280 --> 01:38:17.240] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, speaking of terms, I like to put links.
[01:38:17.460 --> 01:38:19.180] [SPEAKER_09]: There's a browser called links.
[01:38:19.340 --> 01:38:21.140] [SPEAKER_09]: You know how you can put different browsers on your...
[01:38:21.140 --> 01:38:21.760] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh, links.
[01:38:21.940 --> 01:38:22.640] [SPEAKER_06]: L-Y-N-X.
[01:38:22.680 --> 01:38:22.960] [SPEAKER_06]: I know.
[01:38:23.600 --> 01:38:24.100] [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, no.
[01:38:24.180 --> 01:38:25.800] [SPEAKER_09]: Links like L-Y-N-X.
[01:38:25.820 --> 01:38:26.720] [SPEAKER_06]: That's what I just said.
[01:38:27.300 --> 01:38:28.620] [SPEAKER_09]: No, you said L-Y-N-X.
[01:38:28.700 --> 01:38:29.500] [SPEAKER_06]: I did not.
[01:38:30.140 --> 01:38:30.700] [SPEAKER_06]: Did I?
[01:38:30.860 --> 01:38:31.680] [SPEAKER_06]: No, I didn't.
[01:38:32.340 --> 01:38:33.000] [SPEAKER_06]: Play that back.
[01:38:33.120 --> 01:38:33.300] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[01:38:33.380 --> 01:38:33.500] [SPEAKER_06]: Whatever.
[01:38:33.940 --> 01:38:34.220] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[01:38:35.160 --> 01:38:36.380] [SPEAKER_06]: Can I still play that back?
[01:38:36.500 --> 01:38:36.860] [SPEAKER_09]: L-Y-N-X.
[01:38:37.400 --> 01:38:37.620] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[01:38:39.460 --> 01:38:40.820] [SPEAKER_09]: L-Y-N-X.
[01:38:41.040 --> 01:38:44.160] [SPEAKER_09]: And so, browser, just like, you know, you can have Google Chrome and all that.
[01:38:44.160 --> 01:38:50.240] [SPEAKER_09]: But when you use it, when you go to certain websites, they'll know what browser you're using.
[01:38:50.400 --> 01:38:52.300] [SPEAKER_09]: So, like, let's say, banking online.
[01:38:52.740 --> 01:38:53.100] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[01:38:53.260 --> 01:38:57.220] [SPEAKER_09]: You'll have to do something to show them that you're using another browser.
[01:38:57.500 --> 01:38:57.740] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[01:38:57.820 --> 01:38:59.300] [SPEAKER_09]: Somebody else can install links to me.
[01:38:59.380 --> 01:39:00.260] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to maybe...
[01:39:00.260 --> 01:39:07.740] [SPEAKER_09]: You should have lockers at Hope so that people could lock up, like, their technology, like laptops and radios, and, you know, so they're about to, like, carry them.
[01:39:07.740 --> 01:39:09.060] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, how much are you going to be carrying?
[01:39:10.100 --> 01:39:13.460] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, just a laptop and maybe a portable CD radio.
[01:39:13.560 --> 01:39:16.220] [SPEAKER_06]: And I assume you're bringing it for a reason, so why would you lock it up?
[01:39:17.460 --> 01:39:24.360] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, yeah, but, I mean, I don't want to carry it all the time, you know, on me all the time when I'm, like, there for six hours or however long.
[01:39:24.440 --> 01:39:27.620] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we actually do have a device daycare that we're offering.
[01:39:29.360 --> 01:39:39.560] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, because, you know, I mean, you know, I want to bring the technology that I need for when I, you know, when I'm using it, and then when I'm not using it, I don't want to be carrying it, lugging it all around, you know.
[01:39:40.240 --> 01:39:40.580] [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[01:39:41.640 --> 01:39:45.020] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, well, we'll figure something out if we don't have something already, you know.
[01:39:45.120 --> 01:39:46.600] [SPEAKER_06]: That's not something I've been involved in.
[01:39:46.680 --> 01:39:47.080] [SPEAKER_06]: Gila, go ahead.
[01:39:48.160 --> 01:39:53.280] [SPEAKER_07]: Just want to say that the chat is chiming in, and I also ran the video back.
[01:39:53.280 --> 01:39:56.500] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, you said L-Y-N-X.
[01:39:56.640 --> 01:39:57.420] [SPEAKER_07]: We all heard it.
[01:39:57.620 --> 01:39:58.360] [SPEAKER_06]: So I was right.
[01:39:58.440 --> 01:40:00.100] [SPEAKER_07]: You said, you were correct, yes.
[01:40:00.100 --> 01:40:00.200] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[01:40:00.260 --> 01:40:04.460] [SPEAKER_06]: See, I'm used to people not listening to what I say.
[01:40:04.880 --> 01:40:09.060] [SPEAKER_06]: But now, people not only don't listen to what I say, but they say I said something else.
[01:40:09.520 --> 01:40:11.280] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, it's an extra level of frustration.
[01:40:11.500 --> 01:40:13.380] [SPEAKER_06]: And I just imagine it's going to keep getting worse.
[01:40:14.340 --> 01:40:29.060] [SPEAKER_05]: Just to speak to the point you were raising, if you have items for your presenter and you need it stored, we have plenty of options and we will help people that need like a display or like a terminal.
[01:40:29.060 --> 01:40:33.360] [SPEAKER_05]: If they're bringing something that's on wheels or needs to be brought in, we'll take care of that.
[01:40:33.460 --> 01:40:46.840] [SPEAKER_05]: And I suggest people, for your devices, if you're bringing things, bring some kind of small pack or something that you can have on you, a knapsack or a fanny pack even, to contain all of your devices.
[01:40:47.740 --> 01:40:48.360] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
[01:40:48.940 --> 01:40:49.820] [SPEAKER_06]: Always a good idea.
[01:40:49.820 --> 01:40:52.600] [SPEAKER_05]: And some water and, you know, other things you'll need.
[01:40:52.760 --> 01:40:58.880] [SPEAKER_06]: We're going to have a lot of things that we haven't talked about yet, some surprises, but we can't talk about them because we're still working on them.
[01:41:00.040 --> 01:41:01.800] [SPEAKER_09]: Hopefully I can get somebody to...
[01:41:01.800 --> 01:41:03.080] [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe start the whole conference.
[01:41:03.440 --> 01:41:04.380] [SPEAKER_06]: We'll figure this out.
[01:41:04.460 --> 01:41:05.100] [SPEAKER_06]: We'll figure this out.
[01:41:05.200 --> 01:41:05.960] [SPEAKER_06]: We figure lots of things out.
[01:41:06.040 --> 01:41:06.520] [SPEAKER_06]: Alex, go ahead.
[01:41:08.880 --> 01:41:09.720] [SPEAKER_06]: Alex, you're muted.
[01:41:10.580 --> 01:41:11.500] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he's talking.
[01:41:11.820 --> 01:41:13.460] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, he's talking, but nothing's coming out.
[01:41:13.500 --> 01:41:14.140] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't hear him.
[01:41:14.280 --> 01:41:14.460] [SPEAKER_06]: No.
[01:41:14.780 --> 01:41:16.340] [SPEAKER_06]: Alex, you've got to press that button.
[01:41:18.180 --> 01:41:19.500] [SPEAKER_06]: Again, people aren't listening to me.
[01:41:19.500 --> 01:41:20.340] [SPEAKER_05]: I think he said a swear.
[01:41:20.880 --> 01:41:23.200] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, he might have said a swear, but...
[01:41:23.620 --> 01:41:24.620] [SPEAKER_06]: Now he's frozen.
[01:41:25.280 --> 01:41:25.920] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, boy.
[01:41:26.300 --> 01:41:27.420] [SPEAKER_06]: Technology's embracing us, too.
[01:41:28.420 --> 01:41:30.420] [SPEAKER_06]: Alex, can you say something, please?
[01:41:32.580 --> 01:41:33.840] [SPEAKER_06]: Rob, Gila, can you say something?
[01:41:35.200 --> 01:41:35.940] [SPEAKER_06]: We sure can.
[01:41:36.000 --> 01:41:37.280] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, so it's not me.
[01:41:37.540 --> 01:41:39.500] [SPEAKER_06]: It's on Alex's end.
[01:41:40.200 --> 01:41:41.380] [SPEAKER_06]: He looks befuddled.
[01:41:41.860 --> 01:41:42.420] [SPEAKER_06]: That's a befuddled look.
[01:41:42.420 --> 01:41:43.280] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we can't hear you at all.
[01:41:43.400 --> 01:41:45.060] [SPEAKER_06]: He's continuing to speak without words coming.
[01:41:45.140 --> 01:41:46.300] [SPEAKER_06]: Are you just messing with us?
[01:41:46.300 --> 01:41:46.920] [SPEAKER_06]: That's what you're doing.
[01:41:47.260 --> 01:41:48.540] [SPEAKER_06]: I hate it when you do this.
[01:41:49.100 --> 01:41:50.680] [SPEAKER_06]: My God, you're trying to piss me off, aren't you?
[01:41:50.780 --> 01:41:51.340] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you know what?
[01:41:51.380 --> 01:41:51.960] [SPEAKER_06]: You're succeeding.
[01:41:52.540 --> 01:41:53.420] [SPEAKER_06]: You're succeeding, pal.
[01:41:54.020 --> 01:41:55.260] [SPEAKER_06]: And don't make it any worse.
[01:41:56.980 --> 01:41:58.700] [SPEAKER_06]: I swear to God, I will come over there.
[01:42:00.560 --> 01:42:01.280] [SPEAKER_06]: Where is he again?
[01:42:01.340 --> 01:42:02.660] [SPEAKER_06]: Is he in Pennsylvania or is he in New York?
[01:42:03.200 --> 01:42:03.900] [SPEAKER_07]: He's in New York.
[01:42:04.020 --> 01:42:05.020] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I can do that.
[01:42:05.100 --> 01:42:05.600] [SPEAKER_06]: I can do that.
[01:42:05.740 --> 01:42:06.820] [SPEAKER_06]: Pennsylvania, I'd have to wait for tomorrow.
[01:42:06.960 --> 01:42:07.680] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it wouldn't take too long.
[01:42:07.720 --> 01:42:08.740] [SPEAKER_06]: I'll go there.
[01:42:08.800 --> 01:42:09.340] [SPEAKER_06]: I will.
[01:42:09.480 --> 01:42:11.260] [SPEAKER_05]: Just don't forget what your point was, Alex.
[01:42:11.260 --> 01:42:12.900] [SPEAKER_06]: I will activate that microphone.
[01:42:14.220 --> 01:42:15.720] [SPEAKER_06]: Now he's sideways.
[01:42:15.940 --> 01:42:17.080] [SPEAKER_06]: How does he do these things?
[01:42:18.360 --> 01:42:20.360] [SPEAKER_06]: He's got dogs on his screen.
[01:42:20.360 --> 01:42:22.760] [SPEAKER_06]: He's got no sound.
[01:42:22.940 --> 01:42:23.520] [SPEAKER_06]: He's sideways.
[01:42:24.020 --> 01:42:25.620] [SPEAKER_06]: At one point, he was inverted.
[01:42:26.700 --> 01:42:30.880] [SPEAKER_07]: We do have a suggestion that a kid is taking possession of Alex's camera.
[01:42:31.560 --> 01:42:33.740] [SPEAKER_07]: Lex, I think that is not what's happening here.
[01:42:33.740 --> 01:42:38.180] [SPEAKER_07]: This does seem to be a tech issue, as the phone also keeps freezing.
[01:42:38.500 --> 01:42:39.300] [SPEAKER_06]: It's user error.
[01:42:40.240 --> 01:42:40.680] [SPEAKER_07]: It's...
[01:42:41.820 --> 01:42:42.540] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, Lord.
[01:42:42.640 --> 01:42:43.580] [SPEAKER_07]: What's the...
[01:42:44.080 --> 01:42:44.520] [SPEAKER_06]: Pebcac?
[01:42:44.740 --> 01:42:45.160] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[01:42:45.460 --> 01:42:45.900] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[01:42:46.480 --> 01:42:47.040] [SPEAKER_06]: What now?
[01:42:47.800 --> 01:42:50.440] [SPEAKER_07]: It would appear to be a pebcac issue.
[01:42:50.600 --> 01:42:51.360] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know what that is.
[01:42:51.620 --> 01:42:52.380] [SPEAKER_06]: What is that?
[01:42:53.420 --> 01:42:57.860] [SPEAKER_07]: That means problem exists between computer and keyboard.
[01:42:58.260 --> 01:42:58.980] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, how clever.
[01:42:59.480 --> 01:42:59.980] [SPEAKER_06]: Or keyboard and chair.
[01:43:00.140 --> 01:43:01.340] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, between keyboard and chair.
[01:43:01.420 --> 01:43:03.580] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, well, you've insulted Alex to the point now.
[01:43:03.740 --> 01:43:04.200] [SPEAKER_06]: He's gone.
[01:43:04.580 --> 01:43:06.780] [SPEAKER_06]: So, I hope you feel good about that.
[01:43:07.100 --> 01:43:08.920] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, now we see his little picture again.
[01:43:09.140 --> 01:43:10.440] [SPEAKER_06]: Alex, can you speak now?
[01:43:11.440 --> 01:43:12.120] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[01:43:12.220 --> 01:43:13.100] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, my God.
[01:43:13.100 --> 01:43:14.560] [SPEAKER_06]: It's so good to hear your voice again.
[01:43:14.860 --> 01:43:16.500] [SPEAKER_04]: What the hell was that all about?
[01:43:17.340 --> 01:43:18.780] [SPEAKER_04]: That was a Bluetooth issue.
[01:43:18.960 --> 01:43:19.840] [SPEAKER_04]: Bluetooth issue.
[01:43:20.060 --> 01:43:20.600] [SPEAKER_04]: Bluetooth issue.
[01:43:20.920 --> 01:43:21.140] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:43:21.400 --> 01:43:22.240] [SPEAKER_04]: You're a Bluetooth issue.
[01:43:22.240 --> 01:43:38.660] [SPEAKER_04]: The point I was going to make, though, in response to Rebel's concern about custody of his devices, isn't it the case this year, Emmanuel, that we will have DHS on staff, and they'll be there to image everybody's personal devices.
[01:43:38.720 --> 01:43:40.120] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, you're a funny guy, Alex.
[01:43:40.140 --> 01:43:41.080] [SPEAKER_06]: You're a real funny guy.
[01:43:41.940 --> 01:43:45.160] [SPEAKER_06]: No, we do not have DHS anywhere near us.
[01:43:46.480 --> 01:43:48.100] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, they might be in your midst.
[01:43:48.520 --> 01:43:50.700] [SPEAKER_04]: And Rebel, you can always leave your laptop with me.
[01:43:50.880 --> 01:43:53.480] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm a safe pair of hands.
[01:43:53.760 --> 01:43:54.700] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, trust Alex.
[01:43:55.000 --> 01:43:56.920] [SPEAKER_06]: He always gets the job done.
[01:43:57.640 --> 01:43:59.560] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, I'm bringing my laptop and a...
[01:43:59.560 --> 01:44:01.100] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, yeah, you're a lawyer, Alex.
[01:44:01.240 --> 01:44:02.980] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I believe I've got some information with you.
[01:44:03.080 --> 01:44:06.940] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'm not going to pass very much, but let's see.
[01:44:07.020 --> 01:44:09.320] [SPEAKER_09]: So, I want to install Lynx on my computer.
[01:44:09.440 --> 01:44:12.000] [SPEAKER_09]: It's Lynx portable, so if I bring my laptop to hold...
[01:44:12.000 --> 01:44:13.320] [SPEAKER_09]: How did you just find out about Lynx?
[01:44:13.320 --> 01:44:14.740] [SPEAKER_09]: It's been around for, like, 50 years.
[01:44:15.980 --> 01:44:17.480] [SPEAKER_09]: Because I want to make my...
[01:44:17.480 --> 01:44:21.860] [SPEAKER_09]: I just want to do old-school things, like, on the net, you know, online.
[01:44:22.220 --> 01:44:26.480] [SPEAKER_09]: Just, like, when I do, like, banking or booking a plane ticket or something.
[01:44:26.680 --> 01:44:28.600] [SPEAKER_09]: I want to do it, like, the old-school way, you know?
[01:44:28.740 --> 01:44:30.620] [SPEAKER_06]: Like, with the texture, you know what I mean?
[01:44:30.640 --> 01:44:31.340] [SPEAKER_06]: Of course, yes.
[01:44:31.780 --> 01:44:34.320] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, Cheshire Catalyst would appreciate this a lot.
[01:44:34.620 --> 01:44:35.200] [SPEAKER_06]: I know.
[01:44:35.660 --> 01:44:37.120] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, may he rest in peace.
[01:44:37.280 --> 01:44:37.380] [SPEAKER_06]: Yep.
[01:44:38.480 --> 01:44:39.080] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I don't know.
[01:44:39.140 --> 01:44:40.180] [SPEAKER_06]: Lynx has been around forever, though.
[01:44:40.200 --> 01:44:42.760] [SPEAKER_06]: I think they even predate, like, webpages.
[01:44:42.760 --> 01:44:45.440] [SPEAKER_06]: So, I don't know how they existed before webpages.
[01:44:45.860 --> 01:44:46.160] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, come to them in the 90s.
[01:44:46.360 --> 01:44:46.560] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:44:46.880 --> 01:44:47.580] [SPEAKER_09]: But how...
[01:44:47.580 --> 01:44:48.180] [SPEAKER_09]: Is it portable?
[01:44:48.360 --> 01:44:57.220] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, if I bring my laptop to hope and somebody installs it on my laptop, that I have Windows 10 on my laptop and my desktop, can I put it onto my desktop from my laptop?
[01:44:57.380 --> 01:44:58.740] [SPEAKER_09]: Or is it...
[01:44:58.740 --> 01:44:59.760] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I suppose.
[01:44:59.760 --> 01:45:03.620] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, you're asking very specific questions about something we have no involvement in.
[01:45:03.620 --> 01:45:07.560] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, look at the project page and see what other people have done.
[01:45:07.720 --> 01:45:12.280] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, what they've talked about as far as the capabilities and compatibilities.
[01:45:12.700 --> 01:45:15.420] [SPEAKER_06]: Because I'm certainly not bringing my desktop to hope.
[01:45:15.640 --> 01:45:19.560] [SPEAKER_06]: No, and Windows 3.1 isn't really supported anyway, so it would be a waste of time.
[01:45:20.540 --> 01:45:21.340] [SPEAKER_06]: No, Windows 10.
[01:45:21.800 --> 01:45:22.740] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, okay.
[01:45:23.040 --> 01:45:23.740] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, I just assumed.
[01:45:24.220 --> 01:45:24.940] [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead, Gila.
[01:45:24.940 --> 01:45:37.120] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, Rob did a little research here, and Lynx was introduced in 1992, and people have been using it consistently since 1992.
[01:45:38.080 --> 01:45:47.260] [SPEAKER_07]: So I can only imagine that it would be installable on pretty much anything, because people, again, have been finding a way to use it for 32 years.
[01:45:47.660 --> 01:45:51.760] [SPEAKER_06]: I guess I thought it was even older than that, but yeah, 1992 sounds about right.
[01:45:51.760 --> 01:45:53.760] [SPEAKER_06]: That's when webpages started to come out.
[01:45:53.760 --> 01:45:56.780] [SPEAKER_07]: It went beta 22 July 1992.
[01:45:57.540 --> 01:46:06.240] [SPEAKER_01]: And important to note, too, that unlike a lot of just, you could start up old software on things, and it'll work, but Lynx is still being actively maintained.
[01:46:06.280 --> 01:46:12.420] [SPEAKER_01]: It is still a viable piece of software, and so yeah, it is supported for all sorts of platforms nowadays.
[01:46:12.680 --> 01:46:15.000] [SPEAKER_06]: I want to meet the people who are maintaining Lynx.
[01:46:15.160 --> 01:46:20.800] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, that's good for a nice firm handshake, I think, from all of us.
[01:46:21.680 --> 01:46:24.060] [SPEAKER_06]: There was a Lynx release last month.
[01:46:24.620 --> 01:46:25.160] Wow.
[01:46:25.400 --> 01:46:26.040] [SPEAKER_06]: That's amazing.
[01:46:26.580 --> 01:46:27.560] [SPEAKER_06]: 2.9.2.
[01:46:27.700 --> 01:46:29.500] [SPEAKER_06]: Rebo, closing remarks from you, please.
[01:46:30.300 --> 01:46:30.500] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:46:30.780 --> 01:46:34.840] [SPEAKER_09]: The terminal in Windows, does that mean like the DOS prompt?
[01:46:36.460 --> 01:46:38.380] [SPEAKER_05]: More or less sometimes, yeah.
[01:46:38.640 --> 01:46:38.940] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
[01:46:39.280 --> 01:46:39.380] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:46:40.260 --> 01:46:46.760] [SPEAKER_09]: Because I hear you have to go to your Windows terminal, because I don't want Linux, because that's an operating system.
[01:46:47.060 --> 01:46:47.540] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[01:46:47.820 --> 01:46:49.380] [SPEAKER_09]: So I just want the browser.
[01:46:49.580 --> 01:46:52.340] [SPEAKER_09]: Because I mean, I want to keep Google Chrome and all what I have.
[01:46:52.460 --> 01:46:54.360] [SPEAKER_09]: It's just that I want the links extra.
[01:46:54.620 --> 01:47:03.800] [SPEAKER_09]: Because somebody told me to download this thing, CYGW, CYGWIN64, which I don't even know what it does.
[01:47:03.800 --> 01:47:07.840] [SPEAKER_09]: But it's a terminal, it's like a terminal thing, right?
[01:47:08.100 --> 01:47:08.360] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:47:08.460 --> 01:47:16.840] [SPEAKER_05]: It allows you to run an environment that is a variant of Linux, I believe, on a Windows system.
[01:47:17.140 --> 01:47:22.060] [SPEAKER_05]: There's other ways you can do that, running Windows on a Linux system and stuff.
[01:47:22.060 --> 01:47:34.620] [SPEAKER_05]: And even some of the newer OSes, I think Windows 10 or 11, I think they started adding the ability to do it as a part of the operating system itself.
[01:47:34.820 --> 01:47:35.740] [SPEAKER_05]: So investigate that.
[01:47:35.840 --> 01:47:41.000] [SPEAKER_05]: You may have the capability in your Windows OS to do it, depending on what version.
[01:47:41.220 --> 01:47:45.160] [SPEAKER_06]: Just know, Rebel, that whatever configuration you want, you can probably get.
[01:47:45.260 --> 01:47:47.560] [SPEAKER_06]: And Hope is the place to find out how.
[01:47:48.420 --> 01:47:48.880] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[01:47:49.020 --> 01:47:51.820] [SPEAKER_09]: Because I don't want Linux, I just want the Linux browser.
[01:47:52.060 --> 01:47:54.160] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I don't have Linux to have the Linux browser.
[01:47:54.440 --> 01:47:55.520] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't believe so.
[01:47:55.640 --> 01:47:56.320] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't believe so.
[01:47:57.820 --> 01:47:58.680] [SPEAKER_06]: But we'll find out.
[01:47:58.800 --> 01:47:59.400] [SPEAKER_06]: We'll find out for sure.
[01:48:00.340 --> 01:48:01.020] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for your call.
[01:48:01.200 --> 01:48:04.560] [SPEAKER_06]: We will see you at Hope and hopefully talk to you before then.
[01:48:06.360 --> 01:48:07.860] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, we have time for one more phone call.
[01:48:08.060 --> 01:48:09.860] [SPEAKER_06]: 802-321-4225.
[01:48:12.460 --> 01:48:13.520] [SPEAKER_06]: Did I say the number right?
[01:48:14.840 --> 01:48:17.260] [SPEAKER_06]: 802-321-HACK is our telephone number.
[01:48:17.320 --> 01:48:18.260] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, go ahead, Alex.
[01:48:18.920 --> 01:48:30.560] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, another option for Rebel, if he's really, wants to use the Lynx browsers, I'm sure you can install the Lynx package on just about any Linux system.
[01:48:30.920 --> 01:48:32.740] [SPEAKER_06]: He said he doesn't want to use Linux.
[01:48:33.720 --> 01:48:35.100] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, he said that?
[01:48:35.240 --> 01:48:37.780] [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe that was one of the bits that I couldn't hear.
[01:48:38.800 --> 01:48:57.580] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, what I was going to suggest to him then, I guess, was he could use a smartphone if he really wanted to, and you could SSH into a remote system that would then have Lynx on it, and you could use Lynx to your heart's content from your iOS device, your Android device,
[01:48:57.720 --> 01:48:58.880] [SPEAKER_04]: your Windows device, whatever it is.
[01:48:59.080 --> 01:49:01.300] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, just connect to a terminal.
[01:49:01.760 --> 01:49:02.980] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think that is...
[01:49:02.980 --> 01:49:06.840] [SPEAKER_05]: That may be the question that is, when he was talking about, is it portable?
[01:49:07.000 --> 01:49:12.660] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, does Lynx work on the Windows platform?
[01:49:12.660 --> 01:49:14.740] [SPEAKER_05]: Had they ported it to it?
[01:49:14.840 --> 01:49:16.000] [SPEAKER_05]: And I don't know the answer to that.
[01:49:16.080 --> 01:49:18.820] [SPEAKER_05]: That's also something you would find on the projects page or on Wikipedia.
[01:49:19.120 --> 01:49:22.240] [SPEAKER_06]: I know it worked in FreeBSD and various other...
[01:49:22.240 --> 01:49:25.320] [SPEAKER_05]: It probably works on a bunch of those variants, for sure.
[01:49:25.660 --> 01:49:25.860] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:49:26.140 --> 01:49:30.740] [SPEAKER_05]: But they may have some way of running on Windows, and that's why someone recommended that software.
[01:49:31.060 --> 01:49:43.040] [SPEAKER_06]: Folks, be careful about this, because when you go online and you ask for information about Lynx, the default is to get some kind of mass transit system in Florida called Lynx, spelled the same way and everything.
[01:49:43.220 --> 01:49:45.100] [SPEAKER_06]: Because the first question is, does Lynx go to Disney?
[01:49:45.520 --> 01:49:49.360] [SPEAKER_06]: And I don't know how to answer that or how to tell Rebel how to install that.
[01:49:49.360 --> 01:49:54.580] [SPEAKER_06]: And it's hard to find any conversation through Google on the Lynx we're talking about.
[01:49:54.980 --> 01:49:56.040] [SPEAKER_06]: You have to dig a little bit.
[01:49:57.000 --> 01:49:57.400] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[01:49:57.500 --> 01:50:01.960] [SPEAKER_01]: If you look up the Lynx web browser on Wikipedia, it takes you...
[01:50:01.960 --> 01:50:06.880] [SPEAKER_01]: There is all sorts of information, including that you can run it on Windows, you can run it on DOS.
[01:50:07.140 --> 01:50:09.320] [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody built an ADB for Android at some point.
[01:50:09.900 --> 01:50:17.260] [SPEAKER_01]: But the Lynx, the official Lynx site is Lynx, L-Y-N-X dot invisible-island dot net.
[01:50:17.880 --> 01:50:22.480] [SPEAKER_01]: And from there, you can find all the official releases, you can find the source if you want to port it to something.
[01:50:23.480 --> 01:50:26.900] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a very old school looking web page as well, as you might imagine.
[01:50:27.400 --> 01:50:32.240] [SPEAKER_06]: I'll bet this is more conversation about Lynx than they have experienced in many a year.
[01:50:32.280 --> 01:50:34.660] [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm happy that we can bring that to them.
[01:50:34.760 --> 01:50:35.440] [SPEAKER_06]: They certainly deserve it.
[01:50:35.760 --> 01:50:37.340] [SPEAKER_06]: We have one final phone call.
[01:50:37.440 --> 01:50:37.660] [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[01:50:37.800 --> 01:50:39.140] [SPEAKER_06]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:50:39.260 --> 01:50:39.460] [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[01:50:41.540 --> 01:50:41.900] [SPEAKER_11]: Hello.
[01:50:42.280 --> 01:50:42.500] [SPEAKER_06]: Hi.
[01:50:42.620 --> 01:50:42.820] [SPEAKER_06]: What's up?
[01:50:42.960 --> 01:50:43.440] [SPEAKER_06]: What's on your mind?
[01:50:45.340 --> 01:50:47.040] [SPEAKER_06]: Can you turn down your radio, please?
[01:50:48.420 --> 01:50:50.760] [SPEAKER_11]: Hi, I'm Michelle, and I came...
[01:50:50.760 --> 01:50:58.340] [SPEAKER_11]: I have a Google Smart Home, and when I'm just sitting in the living room, it'll beep when it's not being asked or anything.
[01:50:58.760 --> 01:51:01.280] [SPEAKER_11]: It has, like, concerns some people.
[01:51:01.500 --> 01:51:03.540] [SPEAKER_11]: I was wondering if you knew what that was up.
[01:51:05.120 --> 01:51:05.560] [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[01:51:05.580 --> 01:51:06.480] [SPEAKER_06]: Anyone want to take this?
[01:51:10.110 --> 01:51:12.030] [SPEAKER_05]: I want to know what kind of beep, you know?
[01:51:12.150 --> 01:51:16.110] [SPEAKER_05]: You got to give us, like, what kind of tests have you run on when this happens?
[01:51:16.390 --> 01:51:18.010] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, what have you noticed about it?
[01:51:18.010 --> 01:51:19.190] [SPEAKER_05]: Can you give us any more details?
[01:51:20.290 --> 01:51:23.050] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, when it beeps, I, like, ask it.
[01:51:23.150 --> 01:51:25.250] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, if it's listening, it does not respond.
[01:51:28.770 --> 01:51:33.230] [SPEAKER_11]: And I also have turned it on while it was beeping, and it just acts normally.
[01:51:33.630 --> 01:51:35.330] [SPEAKER_11]: So, I'm not sure.
[01:51:35.970 --> 01:51:36.370] [SPEAKER_06]: Interesting.
[01:51:39.550 --> 01:51:56.750] [SPEAKER_01]: This is very interesting to think about, because these things, whether you have a smart device that's the Google one, or, you know, Amazon, or what have you, a lot of these will constantly listen for their own wake word and mishear a lot of other things in conversation as their wake word.
[01:51:57.310 --> 01:52:05.210] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, there are other things that sound like Alexa to an Alexa, because they're not very good at distinguishing these things, but it'll think you're talking to it.
[01:52:05.390 --> 01:52:07.890] [SPEAKER_01]: And the same with Google Home and anything else.
[01:52:08.050 --> 01:52:09.510] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I have an Alexa device.
[01:52:09.970 --> 01:52:16.190] [SPEAKER_06]: I turned on an air conditioner the other day, and Alexa started playing a radio station.
[01:52:17.330 --> 01:52:23.530] [SPEAKER_06]: Somehow, it heard an air conditioner turning on and interpreted that to mean, Alexa, play a radio station.
[01:52:23.930 --> 01:52:25.930] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I don't trust these things.
[01:52:25.930 --> 01:52:29.010] [SPEAKER_06]: I think they're listening a lot more than we think they are.
[01:52:29.170 --> 01:52:29.630] [SPEAKER_06]: Gila?
[01:52:30.170 --> 01:52:31.390] [SPEAKER_07]: So, two things.
[01:52:31.630 --> 01:52:34.630] [SPEAKER_07]: First of all, Majel, I'm so excited that you called.
[01:52:34.630 --> 01:52:39.750] [SPEAKER_07]: I think you may be our first, second generation caller, which is awesome.
[01:52:39.950 --> 01:52:41.550] [SPEAKER_07]: And we're so glad you're here with us.
[01:52:42.310 --> 01:52:45.010] [SPEAKER_07]: I did a little cursory...
[01:52:45.010 --> 01:52:45.950] [SPEAKER_07]: This is very exciting, Gila.
[01:52:46.170 --> 01:52:56.110] [SPEAKER_07]: I did a little cursory research, and check and see that there aren't any devices that are connected to your smart home that may need other updates.
[01:52:56.290 --> 01:53:00.470] [SPEAKER_07]: The issue maybe was something that's connected to the system, not the system itself.
[01:53:00.690 --> 01:53:10.470] [SPEAKER_07]: The use case I'm seeing online right now is someone was saying that their unit kept beeping, and it turned out there was a water filter that was connected to the machine that needed to be replaced.
[01:53:10.730 --> 01:53:18.110] [SPEAKER_07]: So, double-check everything that's connected to your smart home system, and make sure nothing in there needs any maintenance.
[01:53:18.630 --> 01:53:19.890] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, because I...
[01:53:19.890 --> 01:53:20.510] [SPEAKER_05]: Would be my suggestion.
[01:53:20.510 --> 01:53:26.370] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm not clear if the beep is the voice activation, or if it is like that, like some other device, maybe.
[01:53:26.510 --> 01:53:27.330] [SPEAKER_05]: That's a great point.
[01:53:29.590 --> 01:53:31.330] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's really interesting.
[01:53:31.330 --> 01:53:32.310] [SPEAKER_11]: I haven't heard of that.
[01:53:34.430 --> 01:53:35.310] [SPEAKER_11]: That's why we're here.
[01:53:36.510 --> 01:53:36.910] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:53:39.350 --> 01:53:42.190] [SPEAKER_06]: Does that answer your question, or at least address it a little bit?
[01:53:44.850 --> 01:53:45.250] [SPEAKER_12]: Hmm.
[01:53:47.970 --> 01:53:51.390] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, please try it out, and let us know what you find out.
[01:53:51.790 --> 01:53:52.350] [SPEAKER_01]: Keep us updated.
[01:53:52.670 --> 01:54:10.190] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, definitely run some more tests, and make sure you're, you know, pay attention, look for different types of activation like that, and see what you find out over time, and like what kinds of things maybe you can find in places like notifications and the stuff that Geel was describing,
[01:54:10.670 --> 01:54:23.130] [SPEAKER_05]: you might have more questions after that, but every clue will help you figure out what it's doing and why, or at least what weird aspects make it do that.
[01:54:23.290 --> 01:54:34.190] [SPEAKER_06]: And please share what you find out, because a lot of us are curious and want to know about these things, and you're basically discovering new features or abuses that these devices have.
[01:54:35.690 --> 01:54:37.350] [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you so much.
[01:54:37.590 --> 01:54:37.970] [SPEAKER_11]: Of course.
[01:54:38.230 --> 01:54:41.370] [SPEAKER_11]: I, yeah, I love investigating this kind of stuff.
[01:54:43.230 --> 01:54:50.570] [SPEAKER_07]: Majel, before you go, we did have a question for you from the chat, which is, are you coming to Hope?
[01:54:52.870 --> 01:54:54.850] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't think I will be.
[01:54:56.670 --> 01:54:59.610] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, okay, that, that's cool.
[01:54:59.690 --> 01:55:00.850] [SPEAKER_07]: We would love to see you there in the future.
[01:55:01.410 --> 01:55:02.510] [SPEAKER_07]: That's a very honest answer.
[01:55:03.390 --> 01:55:06.690] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, and we're, we're so glad you've been listening.
[01:55:07.010 --> 01:55:08.250] [SPEAKER_07]: We're so glad you called.
[01:55:08.830 --> 01:55:11.090] [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, keep us posted on how your investigation goes.
[01:55:11.190 --> 01:55:11.790] [SPEAKER_07]: We really want to know.
[01:55:12.570 --> 01:55:13.730] [SPEAKER_06]: Of course, yes.
[01:55:14.270 --> 01:55:15.290] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, take care.
[01:55:15.930 --> 01:55:16.190] [SPEAKER_06]: Bye-bye.
[01:55:16.410 --> 01:55:16.770] Thank you.
[01:55:18.330 --> 01:55:20.090] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think that's going to do it for us tonight.
[01:55:21.150 --> 01:55:21.550] [SPEAKER_06]: Right?
[01:55:22.170 --> 01:55:22.530] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:55:22.790 --> 01:55:22.950] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:55:23.230 --> 01:55:23.530] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[01:55:23.530 --> 01:55:27.350] [SPEAKER_06]: Anyone else have any, uh, remaining issues they wish to bring up?
[01:55:28.370 --> 01:55:32.450] [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, want to thank the 40 strong people who have hung with us in the chat.
[01:55:32.770 --> 01:55:37.950] [SPEAKER_07]: And, um, yeah, we, that was a new caller.
[01:55:38.350 --> 01:55:38.910] [SPEAKER_07]: There's five of us.
[01:55:39.050 --> 01:55:43.230] [SPEAKER_06]: You should add the five of us to that 40, you know, 45 strong people that stuck around.
[01:55:43.550 --> 01:55:45.510] [SPEAKER_06]: Because keep in mind, we have no air conditioning here.
[01:55:45.650 --> 01:55:46.650] [SPEAKER_06]: We're hot as hell.
[01:55:46.650 --> 01:55:50.030] [SPEAKER_06]: And, um, uh, you know, oxygen is at a, uh, a minimum.
[01:55:50.530 --> 01:55:52.150] [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, it's at a premium here too.
[01:55:52.150 --> 01:55:52.550] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[01:55:53.890 --> 01:55:59.430] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, and, but yes, definitely excited about new callers in general.
[01:55:59.690 --> 01:56:03.030] [SPEAKER_07]: And also, I'm going to say that was the youngest caller we've had so far.
[01:56:03.350 --> 01:56:03.750] [SPEAKER_07]: Um.
[01:56:03.870 --> 01:56:04.790] [SPEAKER_01]: In a long time, at least.
[01:56:04.890 --> 01:56:04.990] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[01:56:04.990 --> 01:56:07.310] [SPEAKER_07]: So, very exciting.
[01:56:07.610 --> 01:56:09.130] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, and thanks everybody.
[01:56:09.550 --> 01:56:10.110] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[01:56:10.430 --> 01:56:16.490] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, thanks for all of the interesting conversation and excitement over the event coming up.
[01:56:16.750 --> 01:56:21.510] [SPEAKER_05]: We're, uh, going right back to work on all of it after we cool off.
[01:56:21.690 --> 01:56:26.530] [SPEAKER_05]: But, uh, we'll be back, uh, as soon as we can with this and, and more.
[01:56:27.070 --> 01:56:29.830] [SPEAKER_06]: Write to us, oth@2600.com.
[01:56:29.990 --> 01:56:32.230] [SPEAKER_06]: Get hope information at hope.net.
[01:56:32.950 --> 01:56:37.790] [SPEAKER_06]: And, um, keep listening to WBAI and support them and say that we're your favorite show.
[01:56:38.010 --> 01:56:39.630] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, off the hook, not Overtime.
[01:56:39.850 --> 01:56:41.790] [SPEAKER_06]: Because there's no show called Overtime on WBAI.
[01:56:42.630 --> 01:56:43.250] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[01:56:43.930 --> 01:56:47.190] [SPEAKER_06]: Stay, stay cool and, uh, hydrate and all that kind of stuff.
[01:56:47.450 --> 01:56:49.810] [SPEAKER_06]: And, um, we will see you in a week.
[01:56:50.190 --> 01:56:50.390] [SPEAKER_06]: Good night.