Off The Hook - 2024-07-03

[00:00.000 --> 00:04.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's give2wbai.org online.
[00:05.200 --> 00:06.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[00:06.320 --> 00:07.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: Enough dilly-dallying.
[00:07.880 --> 00:12.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go into the next program, which that happens to be, Off The Hook.
[00:12.940 --> 00:14.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's 7 p.m.
[00:14.620 --> 00:18.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: here at WBAI New York and WBAI.org online.
[00:59.400 --> 01:03.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: At the customer's request, the line you are using has been toll restricted.
[01:03.960 --> 01:05.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Only local calls will be completed.
[01:06.640 --> 01:09.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thank you for listening to Off The Hook.
[03:04.310 --> 03:05.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[03:06.070 --> 03:07.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: The program is Off The Hook.
[03:07.610 --> 03:12.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this delightful Wednesday evening.
[03:12.890 --> 03:14.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Joined tonight by Kyle.
[03:15.410 --> 03:15.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: Over here.
[03:16.210 --> 03:19.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: And over in Skype-land, we have Rob T. Firefly.
[03:20.630 --> 03:21.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good evening.
[03:21.870 --> 03:22.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: We have Gila.
[03:23.370 --> 03:24.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[03:24.350 --> 03:25.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we have Alex.
[03:26.710 --> 03:28.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: Alex, you're very low.
[03:30.770 --> 03:31.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Every week, Alex.
[03:31.910 --> 03:32.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: How about this?
[03:32.090 --> 03:32.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Is this any better?
[03:32.830 --> 03:33.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a little low still.
[03:34.210 --> 03:35.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: Can you turn up your volume?
[03:35.910 --> 03:36.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is this any better?
[03:36.850 --> 03:39.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, it sounds like you're very far away.
[03:40.470 --> 03:41.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: I am far away.
[03:41.450 --> 03:41.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[03:41.850 --> 03:43.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: That seems a little better now.
[03:44.510 --> 03:44.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[03:45.110 --> 03:45.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[03:45.790 --> 03:47.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: Is it a new setup every week, Alex?
[03:47.950 --> 03:50.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Is it a new setup?
[03:51.350 --> 03:52.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: Pretty much.
[03:52.330 --> 03:55.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, this is a slightly new setup today.
[03:56.650 --> 04:00.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you know, the old setups are fine.
[04:00.650 --> 04:01.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: A programming note.
[04:01.490 --> 04:04.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: We will be off the air next week and the week after.
[04:04.270 --> 04:06.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: So this is our last show for the next three weeks.
[04:06.930 --> 04:14.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: So enjoy it while you can, because we're going to be doing other things, as you may well know.
[04:14.790 --> 04:18.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, but there's plenty going on right now.
[04:19.490 --> 04:20.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: Gosh, I don't even know where to begin.
[04:21.610 --> 04:22.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: Things are...
[04:22.450 --> 04:25.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I mean, it's the eve of July 4th.
[04:25.950 --> 04:27.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe it's the last July 4th.
[04:27.710 --> 04:27.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
[04:28.010 --> 04:29.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, it won't be the last July 4th.
[04:29.450 --> 04:30.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: It might be the last Independence Day.
[04:31.170 --> 04:32.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
[04:33.550 --> 04:46.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: Any thoughts, Alex, on the latest rulings from on high that have changed, have pretty much changed the way this country is governed forever.
[04:48.310 --> 04:51.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, there's so much disappointment, I think.
[04:52.010 --> 04:52.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: And is this any better?
[04:53.050 --> 04:54.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: Are my levels any better, by the way?
[04:54.330 --> 04:58.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you're leaning way up close to the screen there, and I see that you're very close.
[04:58.210 --> 05:02.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I think if it gets a little bit higher, it might be good, but this is sufficient.
[05:03.090 --> 05:05.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I don't know what I'm going on here.
[05:05.950 --> 05:09.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, and I guess the same can be said for the Supreme Court.
[05:09.870 --> 05:18.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, the Trump immunity ruling was really interesting and disappointing in many, many ways.
[05:19.650 --> 05:27.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Obviously, the D.C. Circuit seemed to have thought this was a nothing issue, issued its per curiam opinion, essentially meaning for the court.
[05:27.410 --> 05:37.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it was pretty tight, but yet the Supreme Court decided to grant certiori to that particular case and issue this opinion from a few days ago.
[05:38.810 --> 05:53.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: And what they did was bifurcate the official and unofficial acts of Trump during that time and had then claimed that, well, we don't necessarily know what is an official act and what's an unofficial act.
[05:53.190 --> 05:54.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: Can I just break in?
[05:54.270 --> 05:57.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Bifurcate is not a word that most of our listeners use in everyday conversations.
[05:58.090 --> 05:59.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: It certainly isn't one I use.
[05:59.550 --> 06:00.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have no idea what it means.
[06:00.510 --> 06:04.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: So please, you know, talk down to us, regular people.
[06:04.250 --> 06:04.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, sure.
[06:04.770 --> 06:07.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I can use fewer syllables if you'd like.
[06:07.130 --> 06:08.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: But that means it's split it into two.
[06:10.410 --> 06:13.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, the trick is in the by.
[06:13.710 --> 06:15.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: The two is in that one.
[06:16.210 --> 06:20.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, I think WBAI listeners are very smart, as a matter of fact.
[06:20.190 --> 06:23.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: I would imagine that most of them have a better vocabulary than I do.
[06:24.230 --> 06:25.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, it's not about smartness.
[06:25.610 --> 06:26.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's about lingo.
[06:26.250 --> 06:27.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's about, you know, jargon.
[06:27.370 --> 06:30.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's about using particular words in your particular field.
[06:30.370 --> 06:35.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: In your case, you're a leading attorney in this nation, perhaps beyond.
[06:35.850 --> 06:42.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you're the one that's going to explain just what the hell's going on in this country of ours.
[06:42.790 --> 06:47.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, so really, what they did was they split this into two issues, right?
[06:47.130 --> 06:54.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: They said, well, you know, for official acts, the president is going to be immune from both criminal and civil liability.
[06:54.870 --> 07:01.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: Up until this point, we'd only really talked about civil liability in many of these cases.
[07:01.590 --> 07:07.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: And so this was a totally new issue for the court to talk about and to opine on.
[07:07.930 --> 07:25.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: And if you're going to have any kind of criminal liability for the sovereign here, for the executive branch, the president of the United States, what the Supreme Court said was, well, we have to figure out which of his acts on January 6th were official acts and which were unofficial acts.
[07:26.130 --> 07:36.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: Was it an official act when he was exhorting masses of people to go down to the Capitol and smash it up and break in to try to, quote-unquote, stop the steal?
[07:37.350 --> 07:43.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or was it an official act or an unofficial act when he was speaking with the attorney general about various things?
[07:43.050 --> 07:46.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: So all of these are issues...
[07:46.090 --> 07:50.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think, quite frankly, they're mixed questions of law and fact.
[07:50.470 --> 07:54.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: And those are the most difficult questions that a court has to answer.
[07:55.030 --> 08:00.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because if it was just a question of a fact, well, then you could have a judge or a jury decide the fact.
[08:00.410 --> 08:03.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Remember, juries decide factual issues in the United States.
[08:03.950 --> 08:05.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: They don't touch legal issues.
[08:05.070 --> 08:12.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: So if this was purely an issue of law, a judge could decide it, and the Supreme Court itself could have decided it.
[08:13.050 --> 08:20.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: So they must be seeing this as something that requires the record to be developed below.
[08:21.950 --> 08:48.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: And by making it something that requires the factual development of a record to determine whether or not something is an official or unofficial act, what they have done with that ruling is kick the can far down the road such that Trump really has no chance whatsoever of facing any kind of criminal trial before November for what happened on January 6th.
[08:48.770 --> 09:07.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, if we operate under the assumption that if he doesn't face any kind of criminal consequences before November or, let's say, January of 2025, when he may very well, again, scarily, become the President of the United States, well, then at that point,
[09:07.450 --> 09:15.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: he can probably exert some kind of undue influence on the Justice Department to drop those charges against himself.
[09:15.370 --> 09:39.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: So we're in this really bizarre, horrible situation where what used to be considered the bulwark of our republic, the Supreme Court and the federal courts of the United States are now playing partisan politics, helping a political candidate kick a criminal trial down the road so that he can then exert influence on the Department of Justice,
[09:39.130 --> 09:43.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: potentially, to drop criminal charges against him.
[09:43.630 --> 09:49.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, this is what I think it feels like to be part of an empire in decline.
[09:50.410 --> 09:55.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, much of the analysis that I've been hearing over the past couple of days points to...
[09:56.510 --> 09:58.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, at first, it didn't sound so bad.
[09:58.410 --> 09:59.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Official acts, unofficial acts.
[09:59.910 --> 10:02.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, you know, it's easy enough to define that.
[10:02.290 --> 10:10.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: But apparently, simply defining something as an unofficial act, say, no, Mr. President, that's not an official act.
[10:10.750 --> 10:11.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: You committed a crime.
[10:11.650 --> 10:13.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: Therefore, you'll be held liable for that.
[10:14.370 --> 10:17.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: From what I'm hearing, that won't be possible.
[10:17.270 --> 10:24.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: It won't be possible to define something as unofficial if that person in power says it's official.
[10:25.190 --> 10:33.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, maybe I'm getting this wrong, but part of his privilege as president is to be able to define what is official and what is not.
[10:33.850 --> 10:35.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: Would you say that's accurate?
[10:36.330 --> 10:37.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think so.
[10:38.070 --> 10:51.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think the executive can characterize whatever the executive wants as official or unofficial, but it would be up to some kind of fact finder to make sure that that would be a reasonable characterization, right?
[10:51.130 --> 10:56.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you know, is jaywalking an official act or an unofficial act?
[10:56.650 --> 10:58.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, we don't necessarily know, right?
[10:58.390 --> 10:59.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it depends on where you're going, right?
[10:59.910 --> 11:07.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: Were you running to rush into a fire to save somebody in a burning building while you are acting in the capacity of a firefighter?
[11:07.330 --> 11:11.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or were you just crossing the street against the crosswalk?
[11:11.370 --> 11:16.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's like all these things, I think, are very factually dependent.
[11:16.350 --> 11:19.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: But this fact finder would be appointed by the king.
[11:19.370 --> 11:21.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm sorry, I'm doing it already.
[11:21.130 --> 11:24.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: By the president.
[11:25.350 --> 11:28.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: And he would basically have the final say.
[11:28.830 --> 11:29.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm just...
[11:29.950 --> 11:30.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: The way...
[11:30.730 --> 11:35.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I'm looking at Justice Sotomayor's words, and they are chilling.
[11:35.330 --> 11:38.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you have not read those words, please do.
[11:38.530 --> 11:52.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Because she is saying, and she is a justice on the Supreme Court, who has been there for quite some time, that the president now has the power, or, you know, under this, will have the power to use...
[11:52.690 --> 11:56.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: seal Team 6 to kill his political opponents and get away with it.
[11:56.330 --> 11:59.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's not some pundit saying that.
[11:59.050 --> 12:00.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's a justice of the Supreme Court.
[12:00.950 --> 12:07.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: There was a headline in The Nation the other day saying that the president now can officially assassinate you.
[12:07.850 --> 12:08.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know?
[12:09.050 --> 12:15.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we should keep in mind, you know, people on the left, people on the right, people for Trump, people for Biden, people for whoever.
[12:15.690 --> 12:21.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: Everybody should be concerned by something like this, because Trump's not in power now.
[12:21.490 --> 12:22.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: Biden's in power now.
[12:22.710 --> 12:26.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: So does that mean that he can take out Trump and get away with it?
[12:27.010 --> 12:28.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: He certainly shouldn't be able to do that.
[12:28.910 --> 12:33.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: But according to what I'm hearing from the Supreme Court, yeah, you know, official act.
[12:34.250 --> 12:38.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, that is something that he is able to get away with.
[12:40.170 --> 12:42.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: What do you do when the Supreme Court has lost its mind collectively?
[12:43.770 --> 12:47.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: We don't seem to have any system in place to deal with this.
[12:48.730 --> 12:50.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think we do.
[12:50.430 --> 12:53.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think we do have a system in place to deal with this.
[12:53.150 --> 12:55.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it was designed in the 18th century.
[12:55.330 --> 12:57.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's called the Constitution and the Separation of Powers.
[12:58.150 --> 13:00.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: The problem is it's failing us now.
[13:00.650 --> 13:04.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's failing us because of the tribal nature of this type of politics.
[13:04.790 --> 13:11.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you mentioned earlier, Emmanuel, and I think it was an erroneous assumption that, you know, well, the king who's going to appoint...
[13:14.170 --> 13:21.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: this king-appointed person is going to become the fact finder, determine whether or not, you know, something is an official or unofficial act.
[13:22.010 --> 13:24.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: But if these are issues of fact, it could be done by a jury.
[13:25.150 --> 13:27.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: That could be, you know, up to a jury to find that fact.
[13:27.650 --> 13:28.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or it could be a judge.
[13:28.530 --> 13:30.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: It could be a mixed question of law and fact, like I had mentioned.
[13:30.610 --> 13:50.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: But the whole system, the whole system of federal courts were designed to prevent and protect against this very level of political partiality by virtue of federal judges being insulated from the political process because they have lifetime appointments.
[13:50.170 --> 13:59.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that doesn't seem to matter anymore because judges seem to be just as influenced by partisan politics these days as anything else.
[14:00.450 --> 14:19.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's a very, very scary situation, I think, we find ourselves in because during the first term of Trump, so scary even to mention this, but he packed the federal courts, the federal district courts, the trial level courts with a massive number of his appointees.
[14:19.290 --> 14:22.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: He also packed the Supreme Court, and we see how that's working out.
[14:23.070 --> 14:29.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: And none of this is supposed to happen by the design of the founders of this nation.
[14:29.150 --> 14:34.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're talking about, you know, this, I think, really critical issue of how a system works.
[14:34.850 --> 14:37.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: And people may be wondering, well, how does this relate to hacking, right?
[14:37.310 --> 14:45.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, because the framers, the founding fathers, were trying to design a system that could not be vulnerable to this type of attack.
[14:46.010 --> 14:49.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yet, here we are in the 21st century, and it is.
[14:49.310 --> 15:04.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: And the whole reason why federal judges are appointed for a lifetime appointment is to make sure that they are not influenced by the Republicans, by the Democrats, by the Whigs, by whoever it was or whoever it will be coming into power.
[15:04.090 --> 15:14.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, it's an apt comparison, because, you know, this is a system that has been ignoring updates now for 200 years.
[15:14.610 --> 15:21.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it is woefully in need of some upgrades, some hardware replacement, a lot.
[15:21.850 --> 15:32.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: And if you leave a computer system running, you know, without doing anything to maintain it, without saying, is this still relevant today?
[15:32.370 --> 15:33.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Can I do better?
[15:34.350 --> 15:36.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: Think of the kind of system you're going to have.
[15:36.310 --> 15:41.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're going to have something that's awfully slow, clunky, and does not serve your interests at all.
[15:43.430 --> 15:50.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's hilarious when we think about, yeah, the Constitution not having received some kind of update for so long.
[15:50.530 --> 15:58.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: But I think part of the reason why the system that was designed so well in the 18th century is beginning to fail is because of technology.
[15:58.390 --> 16:10.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's because of the very fact that social media propels a judge's decisions way beyond the borders of the jurisdictional limitations of whatever that federal district court is.
[16:10.750 --> 16:14.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: At the moment, a decision issues.
[16:14.370 --> 16:24.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: And a federal judge and his clerks nowadays are very often the subject of derision and mocking and harassment and intimidation.
[16:25.930 --> 16:31.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: And there's no escaping any of that now because of the proliferation of social media.
[16:31.770 --> 16:49.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: So a judge, I think, is going to feel more beholden to the will of the people, to the will of the majority, and to the will of the political party that put him or her into office in the first place than they ever could have imagined in the 18th century.
[16:50.010 --> 16:58.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: And so I think we lose that type that was that insularity of the federal judiciary that made it the bulwark of this particular type of of the republic.
[17:00.030 --> 17:06.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: But now there's these new attacks on the judiciary that that I think are making them feel more vulnerable.
[17:06.510 --> 17:23.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think what we need to do in terms of updating the system here would be to try to protect the judiciary and the judges in ways that would make it, I think, wrong to harass and intimidate them for the very decisions that they're issuing impartially.
[17:23.910 --> 17:30.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but you can't just accept the things that are going on right now in silence.
[17:31.070 --> 17:35.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, we are seeing our democracy attacked and dismantled in front of our eyes.
[17:35.950 --> 17:43.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: And if you can't lead a demonstration, you know, in front of somebody's home for destroying your country, I don't know what hope is left.
[17:43.470 --> 17:46.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, we have to be able to speak out and be heard.
[17:46.990 --> 17:52.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: And yeah, maybe feared as well, because there are no leaders anywhere that did not fear the public.
[17:52.930 --> 17:56.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think the public needs to speak in a louder tone of voice.
[17:56.170 --> 17:58.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: We are we are seeing rights taken away.
[17:58.870 --> 18:06.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're seeing fear and and and racism and and sexism, homophobia, you name it, it's all out there.
[18:06.930 --> 18:12.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's it's it's being ready to be used in round two of this nightmare.
[18:12.730 --> 18:26.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, yeah, you know, people need to voice their opinions and know that their opinions matter and not be fooled by what you see on social media, because social media may seem like an overwhelming force of opinion.
[18:26.870 --> 18:29.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: But it could be artificial intelligence.
[18:29.450 --> 18:32.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: It could be people who are nowhere near this country.
[18:32.010 --> 18:37.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: Even it could be somebody saying the same thing 40,000 times with different names.
[18:37.990 --> 18:50.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: It is not the same thing as actual people speaking out in person and making their voices heard, making their voices loud, because I don't know, maybe I'm just losing patience in my age.
[18:50.630 --> 18:54.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I just feel like we've been we've been way too quiet, way too patient.
[18:54.350 --> 18:59.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's it's time that, you know, we hear a different point of view.
[19:00.410 --> 19:01.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, don't don't get me wrong.
[19:02.110 --> 19:07.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: I I'm not suggesting that we curtail the First Amendment or the freedom of assembly or speech.
[19:07.550 --> 19:09.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no, certainly certainly not.
[19:09.970 --> 19:33.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: But I but I do think that there is basically starting from on high here, starting with with Trump, you have this example of deriding judges and their staff and and in particular their law clerks in such a public and shameful manner that it become they become the subject of intense harassment.
[19:33.310 --> 19:36.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's that type of activity that I think is is absolutely wrong.
[19:36.810 --> 19:43.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: And we need to protect the judiciary from in many ways, because they're the ones that are ultimately protecting us and our rights.
[19:43.910 --> 19:53.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: And if they cannot issue unpopular decisions without fear of being harassed or stalked or or hurt physically in some way, we we've got problems here.
[19:54.350 --> 20:02.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I think we have problems on on many sides of this as something that, as you say, is is quite relevant to our community.
[20:02.870 --> 20:08.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: Any community this is relevant to because the very future of our freedom is is at stake here.
[20:08.270 --> 20:13.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: And as hackers, we we know how how easily that can all vanish.
[20:13.270 --> 20:42.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think the the import of technology as an accelerant combined with how broken our system is for so many people across so many cross across the myriad cross sections of our country is, I think, pushes people into a position where they're where they're out of time.
[20:42.130 --> 20:44.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's it's too late for a system.
[20:45.390 --> 21:02.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: We tend to slow cook, you know, we like to let things go very slowly and go through all of this, this, this really wonderful process of deliberation and, and legal process.
[21:03.150 --> 21:03.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Fascinating.
[21:03.910 --> 21:21.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's quaint, but unfortunately, I'm curious, will it will it be able to satiate people that are on across all of that, just sort of out of time and out of patience, right?
[21:21.810 --> 21:38.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, if it is so broken, and it takes, you know, it takes just all of this sort of self involvement and, and endless process, you get people at sort of their, their sort of at wit's end, right with the process.
[21:38.650 --> 21:48.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: And when that takes takes hold for something that is the actual place where this stuff is sorted.
[21:49.370 --> 21:55.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: It, I think becomes a lot more of a untenable situation, right?
[21:55.970 --> 22:17.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: You get people, um, uh, acting out, you know, like, uh, uh, really voicing and, and, um, trying to work around that system because it, it is like Alex sort of suggested protecting itself, you know, perpetually for just more process.
[22:17.330 --> 22:17.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead, Alex.
[22:19.530 --> 22:38.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, another point here to it, I think it dovetails with what Carl is saying is, um, you know, when we're talking about judges, you're right, you know, the, the, the big difference in the system that was that the founding fathers had designed here to be insulated from the political process,
[22:38.830 --> 22:45.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: namely the federal judiciary and these lifetime appointments is totally different than what happens at the state level.
[22:45.210 --> 23:03.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: And for a lot of our, our listeners that may be overseas, it should come hopefully as some surprise to learn that at the state level, a lot of the judges that preside over cases and over trials, in fact, are elected at, you know, they're, they're on political ballots,
[23:04.090 --> 23:08.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: you know, they run with a party and you select them in local elections.
[23:08.210 --> 23:14.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: And so you would expect them to be a bit more beholden to certain policies and procedures.
[23:14.630 --> 23:23.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: You would expect maybe, you know, Republican candidates to be tougher on crime and, and various things and, and Democrats to be a little bit more lenient, et cetera.
[23:24.330 --> 23:27.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, but every judge is supposed to be impartial.
[23:27.650 --> 23:40.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: But the reason why the federal judiciary has these lifetime appointments is to, is to be in very stark contrast to what happens at the state level, where the judges are political animals by their very nature.
[23:40.850 --> 23:59.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, it's, it's a crazy system that we have now where very often, it seems like it's the state court judges, the ones that are beholden to political wills of people that tend to be more impartial than, than even the Supreme Court of the United States.
[24:00.330 --> 24:02.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's a really, really sad state of affairs.
[24:03.510 --> 24:05.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: What a time, what a time to be around.
[24:06.050 --> 24:14.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, well, okay, I'm going to, I have something that, um, might even top some of what we're talking about, uh, a bizarre data point, uh, for this growing movement.
[24:14.730 --> 24:18.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if you know about this movement, but there's a movement to keep rap lyrics out of the courtroom.
[24:18.150 --> 24:22.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, yeah, uh, Hot Boys rapper Christopher B.G.
[24:22.910 --> 24:33.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: Dorsey was recently ordered to provide the government with a copy of any song he writes moving forward ahead of its release or promotion.
[24:33.830 --> 24:39.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: He's currently on supervised release, uh, from prison for a 14-year gun-related sentence he received back in 2012.
[24:40.150 --> 24:53.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: And now, according to a federal judge, the government has the right to determine if his future work is inconsistent with his goals of rehabilitation, and if so, move to toughen the terms of his release.
[24:53.950 --> 25:02.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, the, the judge, uh, Obama appointed, by the way, uh, Susie Morgan, uh, refused prosecutors' request to prohibit B.G.
[25:02.150 --> 25:11.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: from promoting and glorifying future gun violence slash murder in his songs and concerts entirely, saying that restriction could violate its constitutional right to free speech.
[25:11.990 --> 25:34.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, but, um, but this particular condition that, um, he has to submit his writings, uh, to, to the government for approval before they can be released based on his history, that just strikes me as, as so Orwellian and scary.
[25:34.970 --> 25:38.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, and I think it's, it's, it's not getting the attention that it deserves.
[25:38.850 --> 25:42.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is something that everybody should see the, um, the threat of.
[25:42.930 --> 25:56.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're talking about, you know, people writing fiction, writing something of that, that comes from their imagination and to say that, well, because you have a history in this particular field, you're not allowed to talk about that.
[25:56.930 --> 25:58.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're not allowed to fantasize about that.
[25:58.930 --> 26:06.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, you know, there are instances where, uh, lyrics in a song are, are, are, uh, confessions of a sort, and that's a totally different matter.
[26:07.210 --> 26:12.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: If somebody is stupid enough to confess to an actual crime in a song of theirs, then you have the evidence you need right there.
[26:13.030 --> 26:21.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: But to tell somebody they're not allowed to express themselves artistically and creatively, um, that should really bother everybody.
[26:22.270 --> 26:23.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: Am I, am I wrong on this?
[26:25.890 --> 26:26.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead, Rob.
[26:27.530 --> 26:44.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, no, as, as someone who does, uh, creative work and puts it out there, you know, the, the fact, you know, I know nothing about this artist or, or his work, but I know that, uh, any sort of oversight of the things I were allowed to create would be devastating.
[26:44.570 --> 26:54.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I can, you know, I, I, I don't necessarily want to go out and write a story about, uh, you know, murder or, or, uh, whatever, but I should be allowed to.
[26:55.470 --> 27:06.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, the, the fact that you're creating some work of fiction should not, uh, you know, figure in any way to toward, uh, whether or not you're considered rehabilitated of doing bad things in real life.
[27:08.030 --> 27:08.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: True, true.
[27:09.350 --> 27:13.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, and, uh, by the way, uh, you might know his, his work, uh, the, the hit bling bling from 1999.
[27:15.050 --> 27:15.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: No?
[27:15.650 --> 27:15.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[27:16.070 --> 27:16.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, that BG.
[27:17.450 --> 27:21.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: Part of a New Orleans-based Hot Boys group, uh, which also includes Lil Wayne, Juvenile and Turk.
[27:22.410 --> 27:27.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, they have not been active since BG's arrest, uh, but a reunion is in the works, I hear.
[27:28.610 --> 27:36.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, so, uh, there's also the concern of, um, convicted felons performing on stage together, uh, which violates probation in some cases.
[27:37.070 --> 27:38.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: That I'm not going to speak to.
[27:38.430 --> 27:50.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know what the rules and regulations are there, but if you're sharing a stage with somebody, not exactly sure you're, um, you're hanging out with them, but I, I guess it's kind of hard to, you know, join forces in a song without having a conversation.
[27:51.170 --> 27:52.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, go ahead, Alex.
[27:53.870 --> 27:56.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, this is, uh, really crazy.
[27:56.850 --> 28:10.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: And in many ways, I, I, I didn't know about this at all until you brought it up, but I, it, it sounds a lot to me like this is a, well, it doesn't sound like this is, this is a prior restraint on, on the freedom of speech.
[28:10.970 --> 28:23.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is something that the government is saying you need to be, uh, you need to be, uh, you need to submit this ahead of time and get our approval before it's published in some way or another.
[28:24.170 --> 28:25.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and anybody can see it.
[28:25.890 --> 28:28.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: And this is directly affecting his freedom of speech.
[28:28.770 --> 28:36.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: And anytime you're implicating a fundamental right like this, you have to think the government has to make sure that it's narrowly tailored, right?
[28:36.910 --> 28:43.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: That you are affecting a right and, or, or curtailing a right in the least restrictive way possible.
[28:44.530 --> 28:50.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, um, I, I don't think that this would survive that type of scrutiny called strict scrutiny.
[28:51.190 --> 28:51.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I don't know.
[28:51.810 --> 29:11.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, you know, especially these days, look, if, if, if, um, you have parents think about them for a second, think about how they would react to, uh, this kind of a story where some, some guy who sings rap music, uh, what was in prison and is singing about murder and violence and all that kind of,
[29:11.390 --> 29:13.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: don't you think you have to control that somehow?
[29:13.470 --> 29:14.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: Don't you think it's gone far enough?
[29:14.850 --> 29:24.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not hard to make that argument to people and to get them to agree to something that on the face of it, they would say, Oh, this goes against everything that this country stands for.
[29:25.110 --> 29:35.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: But when you inject a little fear and misunderstanding and, uh, and generalizations, you can easily get people to believe this is right.
[29:35.010 --> 29:40.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's, it's also in the context of his supervised release, right?
[29:40.450 --> 29:52.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: So I think that that must play a very, very large role in the legal analysis here because the, the assumption there is that he's not necessarily in full possession of his liberty at this particular point.
[29:52.910 --> 29:55.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: He's on quote unquote supervised release.
[29:55.170 --> 30:15.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: So the government still has some level of control or an interest in exercising control over this particular person, whether that level of control extends to the ability to control this person's first amendment rights and fail and then approve what this person has,
[30:15.290 --> 30:17.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: has written and intends to speak about.
[30:17.810 --> 30:20.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's an entirely different story.
[30:20.390 --> 30:31.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think you, you know, perhaps you're right, Emmanuel, on that you could convince your grandpas and grandmas that this may be a good idea, but again, it goes back to the nature of the federal judiciary here.
[30:31.530 --> 30:38.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're talking about federal judges who are supposed to uphold the constitutional principles embodied in the first amendment.
[30:38.870 --> 30:42.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think these, this, this restriction is really offensive to it.
[30:43.010 --> 30:56.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you know, uh, we know many people who have, uh, been subject to supervised release, uh, and we've seen all kinds of restrictions, some of which, uh, you know, were unheard of at the time, such as not being allowed to use the Internet, not being allowed to use,
[30:56.050 --> 30:58.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: use a cell phone, things like that.
[30:58.230 --> 31:02.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, at the time, I know we argued this interferes with someone's right to free speech.
[31:02.570 --> 31:05.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: And now that kind of thing, it can happen.
[31:05.550 --> 31:07.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's almost considered normal.
[31:07.470 --> 31:09.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not saying it happens a lot, but it does happen.
[31:10.150 --> 31:15.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, so I just think, you know, the more you chisel away at it, the easier it gets to do this kind of thing in the future.
[31:15.510 --> 31:24.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's why I think people need to pay attention to the cases they may not quite identify with, but which represent incursions into the freedom we all take for granted.
[31:25.590 --> 31:26.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, okay.
[31:26.590 --> 31:27.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, some more news.
[31:27.350 --> 31:35.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: The Virginia department of elections database may have been hacked according to RHC dark lab, which apparently is a news source and on Google news.
[31:35.690 --> 31:44.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, uh, a serious security incident appears to have hit the Virginia department of elections, causing the unauthorized dissemination of a large election database.
[31:44.870 --> 31:53.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: The attack claimed by a user, uh, known as Intel broker was made public through an online forum dedicated to data breaches.
[31:53.830 --> 31:59.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, the Virginia department of elections is the body responsible for administering elections in the state of Virginia.
[31:59.930 --> 32:01.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think we needed that sentence.
[32:01.210 --> 32:07.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, this department ensures that all elections are conducted fairly, transparently, and in compliance with state and federal laws.
[32:07.970 --> 32:17.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, it oversees voter registration, supervises local and state elections, and maintains the integrity of the electoral process through secure data management.
[32:18.250 --> 32:20.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, I don't know about that part.
[32:20.370 --> 32:21.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe not.
[32:21.710 --> 32:35.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, currently, um, uh, this, um, uh, organization, RIC dark lab, uh, cannot precisely confirm the accuracy of the reported breach, uh, as they have not yet, um, uh, the organization, uh, Virginia department of elections has not issued an official press release.
[32:36.650 --> 32:42.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, therefore, uh, this news, uh, should be considered as, uh, an intelligence source.
[32:43.330 --> 32:54.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, and according to reports, this compromised database contained detailed information about electoral candidates, uh, Intel broker, the user who claimed responsibility for the attack stated that the database had previously been sold on the forum.
[32:55.270 --> 33:02.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, however, they decided to make it public to prevent further fraud by new accounts that could have taken advantage of this information.
[33:02.750 --> 33:03.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, okay.
[33:03.830 --> 33:08.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you know, enough said about all that, but basically what we're looking at here, uh, they, they, they, they print the fields.
[33:08.690 --> 33:27.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, they call 65,000 rows of data details such as, um, um, candidate, um, uh, candidate name, uh, total votes, party affiliation, write-in vote, locality code, locality name, precinct ID, precinct name, district ID, district type, district name, office ID,
[33:27.850 --> 33:31.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: office title, election ID, election type, election date, election name, and number of seats.
[33:32.870 --> 33:37.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: There is nothing in here that is not public information that I can see unless something is missing from here.
[33:37.990 --> 33:45.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: When I, when I first saw this story, I assumed it was the, um, the database of voters that was leaked.
[33:45.490 --> 33:59.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: It doesn't even seem to have been that it just seems to have been a listing of candidates, how many votes they got from what precincts and what localities, all of this information is something that is reported after every election and is accessible.
[33:59.510 --> 34:10.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I'm not really sure, you know, maybe, maybe this isn't a complete story, but even if it were the, um, uh, the database of voters in the state of Virginia, even that is public.
[34:11.090 --> 34:13.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: Actually, I have to confess, I'm not sure what the laws of Virginia are.
[34:13.990 --> 34:18.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: I know here in New York, it's, it's, it's simple to get the voter registration list.
[34:18.970 --> 34:28.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: You find out everybody's name, everybody's address, everybody's party affiliation, their date of birth, a lot of information, but it's all open to the public.
[34:28.430 --> 34:29.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, some states have different rules.
[34:29.790 --> 34:31.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: Some states don't make it accessible.
[34:31.750 --> 34:33.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: Some states charge a fortune for it.
[34:34.650 --> 34:36.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: But most states, it's not hard.
[34:37.090 --> 34:38.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: And many states, it's completely free.
[34:38.610 --> 34:40.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: And some even have it posted online.
[34:40.990 --> 34:45.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, um, it's easy to get some concern with a story like this.
[34:45.390 --> 34:46.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's easy to make people panic.
[34:47.250 --> 34:50.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, you know, this doesn't even appear to be the voter database.
[34:51.210 --> 34:53.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: It appears to be a list of candidates in Virginia.
[34:54.630 --> 34:55.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
[34:55.370 --> 34:56.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: No big deal to me.
[34:56.790 --> 34:57.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead, Alex.
[34:59.050 --> 35:00.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is such a ridiculous story.
[35:01.190 --> 35:06.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, if, if it's really just those fields, and we're talking about public data.
[35:06.270 --> 35:11.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: I know you're not calling Google News ridiculous, because they, they forwarded this to the very front of their news feed.
[35:12.650 --> 35:14.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, and I know they're not people.
[35:14.390 --> 35:18.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: I know they're just, you know, machines doing this, but still, these machines know what they're doing.
[35:18.590 --> 35:25.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, some, somebody gave those machines instructions at some point, and, um, and that, they must be ridiculous themselves.
[35:25.990 --> 35:31.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, but it goes to my point here, which is that this is such a non-story.
[35:31.630 --> 35:47.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: But if such a non-story can make it to the front of Google News like this, most people are not going to investigate the story like we're doing right now and look at the actual fields that are part of this breach and come to the reasonable conclusion that this is absurd and is,
[35:47.790 --> 35:48.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: is really nothing.
[35:49.330 --> 35:59.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: And because of that, it's this, what I find most dreadful about this whole idea is that it's the story itself that can damage the electoral process.
[35:59.770 --> 36:18.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's the story itself, this non-story about that should not have been a story in the first place that can cause distrust in the electoral system and can eradicate, uh, you know, essentially public confidence and our willingness to, to even trust our data with local precincts.
[36:18.630 --> 36:18.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Bingo.
[36:18.930 --> 36:19.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: Bingo.
[36:19.490 --> 36:19.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: You got it.
[36:20.010 --> 36:21.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's exactly the point.
[36:21.190 --> 36:22.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's exactly it.
[36:22.230 --> 36:27.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: This kind of a story makes it seem as if, uh, uh, everything is insecure.
[36:27.350 --> 36:28.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Everything can be compromised.
[36:28.750 --> 36:30.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: Our votes mean absolutely nothing.
[36:30.950 --> 36:36.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's really, really scary to, to have something like that, um, uh, spread around.
[36:36.450 --> 36:38.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, go ahead, Rob, and then Gila.
[36:39.470 --> 36:53.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, this is, uh, I think the real hack here would be, uh, if, you know, assuming this story is, uh, accurate, the real hack would be some outfit somewhere, uh, getting a bunch of publicly available data together, packaging it up like a leaked database and then selling it on,
[36:53.990 --> 36:56.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: uh, dark web forums for, uh, for money.
[36:56.550 --> 36:58.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, that, that would be, uh, kind of amazing.
[36:58.770 --> 37:11.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: It reminds me a bit of, uh, when, uh, a while back, uh, someone started a, a parody sort of scaremongering campaign about a chemical that's in all your child's foods, um, called dihydrogen monoxide.
[37:11.810 --> 37:18.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, you know, talking about it, you know, so many foods contain it and you're, there's tons of it in your, in your children's bodies.
[37:18.190 --> 37:24.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: And of course, what they're talking about is just water, but they package it up like something scary and put it in a scaremongering format.
[37:24.190 --> 37:29.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: And people like, who don't know better would, would, uh, would hear this and think there's something terribly wrong.
[37:30.150 --> 37:32.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, speaking of things that are terribly wrong.
[37:32.750 --> 37:41.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: So we did find the original link to this article, which is on one site and we can't find it anywhere else.
[37:41.730 --> 37:43.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, literally it's in one place.
[37:43.950 --> 37:49.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it turns out that this is a bunch of random people from Italy who like a blog.
[37:49.910 --> 37:57.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is a blog of random people from Italy and, um, nothing about this is good.
[37:57.730 --> 38:04.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, the whole idea that, you know, the person who claimed responsibility is like, I'm putting this out so that nobody else, there's nothing.
[38:07.030 --> 38:21.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, I'm not saying that anything, and I'm not saying anything that everybody else hasn't already said, but just the, and the fact that Google news pushed this up, SEO and Google translate could be very, very dangerous tools.
[38:22.390 --> 38:40.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I think as we get closer to November, it behooves all of us us as an informed voter populace to be really, really careful what we're reading, what we're believing, what we're trusting.
[38:41.390 --> 38:42.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, exactly.
[38:42.310 --> 38:44.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Rob, what was that ingredient you said was in our children's food?
[38:44.590 --> 38:45.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm very concerned about that.
[38:47.270 --> 38:48.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Dihydrogen monoxide.
[38:48.050 --> 38:49.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's scary stuff if you look into it.
[38:49.510 --> 38:49.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: It really is.
[38:49.970 --> 38:54.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, it reminds me of when I was in grade school and people would come up to you and say, hey, your epidermis is showing.
[38:56.270 --> 39:02.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: Which, you know, kudos to kids for knowing what that was, or not knowing what that was, but that simply means skin.
[39:04.550 --> 39:05.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[39:06.770 --> 39:16.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, well, this story, let's focus on corporate America and how they're constantly making the world a worse place.
[39:16.990 --> 39:17.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Paramount.
[39:17.770 --> 39:19.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can be hearing a lot about them in the future.
[39:20.530 --> 39:25.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: They basically just erased 20 plus years of news archives.
[39:25.910 --> 39:28.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: All that's left is a placeholder site for reality shows.
[39:29.850 --> 39:34.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: MTV, MTV News was online.
[39:34.610 --> 39:35.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not online anymore.
[39:36.270 --> 39:41.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's basically just discarded because they're moving on.
[39:41.570 --> 39:45.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: They're forming new alliances, new companies, new programming.
[39:46.350 --> 39:51.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, and just, uh, some of these comments are really heartbreaking.
[39:51.990 --> 40:06.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, http colon slash slash MTV news.com no longer exists, said, uh, one of the writers, Patrick Hoskin, eight years of my life are gone without a trace, all because it didn't fit some executives' bottom lines.
[40:07.170 --> 40:08.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Infuriating is too small a word.
[40:08.890 --> 40:10.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mitchell Clark wrote, I don't even have the words.
[40:10.670 --> 40:17.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was just a freelancer, but I put so much blood, sweat, and tears into telling stories that I cared about the right way on that platform.
[40:17.730 --> 40:18.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: What a gut punch.
[40:19.550 --> 40:31.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, as, uh, Paramount destroyed the library of articles, some writers managed to save a few for the waybackmachine.com, uh, archive.org, which, uh, was just profiled for trying to hold on to evaporating information on the Internet.
[40:32.830 --> 40:38.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, um, a lot is lost and a lot of people won't find it there.
[40:38.970 --> 40:40.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: A lot of people won't know where to look.
[40:40.330 --> 40:41.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: We have to help them find that.
[40:41.690 --> 40:49.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: We also have to come up with a better way of preserving the data that's out there and never trust it to these large corporations because they don't care.
[40:49.750 --> 41:01.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: We've seen it so many times where you pour your life into some particular application or, or, or system that you believe in and they decide they're just going to, uh, sunset it in their words.
[41:01.530 --> 41:02.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, um, it doesn't matter.
[41:03.010 --> 41:04.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: It doesn't matter what you put into it.
[41:04.210 --> 41:05.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: It all gets erased.
[41:05.370 --> 41:06.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: It all gets wiped away.
[41:06.810 --> 41:09.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: Geo cities, uh, Google wave.
[41:09.190 --> 41:09.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: What?
[41:09.350 --> 41:10.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's so many we could list.
[41:11.030 --> 41:12.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: We go on for an hour about this.
[41:13.190 --> 41:24.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, um, if you don't save something yourself, if you don't have, um, um, a duplicate of what it is you're contributing to, then you don't really own it.
[41:25.030 --> 41:26.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not really yours.
[41:26.290 --> 41:30.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's subject to the whims of these people who just care about profit.
[41:30.670 --> 41:37.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, um, yeah, I, I just want to say like, uh, it is great that there are organizations out there that are willing to do this.
[41:38.030 --> 41:45.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think parts of what was taken down are already, uh, being, being, uh, processed.
[41:45.110 --> 42:02.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's, there's some of it is, is now searchable from the MTV news archives through the way back and other, uh, libraries, but it's, it's, it should not be, I mean, it's an indication or it's like a symptom of how broken this is like this idea that,
[42:03.030 --> 42:14.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: um, you can be sort of, uh, uh, lulled into thinking that this stuff will last just because of, uh, the, a stalwart brand, um, existing.
[42:15.270 --> 42:16.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's not the case.
[42:16.550 --> 42:32.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it, it is, uh, something that we talk about in parallel when we're talking about cloud computing, because a lot of people push for that, but this could just as easily be a part of their infrastructure that's lost or breached or, you know, falls by the wayside.
[42:32.710 --> 42:38.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: There are plenty of, of drawbacks to storing things and archiving things yourself.
[42:38.990 --> 42:43.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: It takes work, takes planning, it takes power, right?
[42:43.710 --> 42:57.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: But you do, you do get the upset upshot, which is your, the, the ultimate, uh, say as far as what the, the final, um, end of life for some of this is.
[42:57.850 --> 43:09.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you can make sure that it's sort of shepherded on in ways that make sense, not this sort of crass, just destructive, um, uh, ending of, of, of sites.
[43:09.430 --> 43:10.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, we've seen this many times before.
[43:10.970 --> 43:14.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: I know BBC destroyed a whole lot of programming back in the sixties.
[43:14.550 --> 43:20.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, uh, so much was lost just because they, they needed more tape or film or something.
[43:20.310 --> 43:24.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, the reasons are always something that turn out to be ridiculous in the end.
[43:24.770 --> 43:26.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: And what's lost is, is irreplaceable.
[43:27.270 --> 43:40.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, you know, uh, when, when, when, um, uh, people like us who like to save everything and archive everything, see a story like this, we feel a little bit of, um, of vindication about, um, maybe we're not wasting our entire lives by doing this.
[43:41.170 --> 43:48.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, but also anger because so many people are just creative people who don't think about, okay, how do I preserve this?
[43:48.350 --> 43:53.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, you know, they trust the system and this is to let you know that that system cannot be trusted.
[43:54.050 --> 44:05.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: We need a better system of, uh, snapshotting, uh, Internet sites so that when somebody decides to pull the plug, they're still there someplace and your work is not forgotten or disappeared.
[44:05.670 --> 44:06.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead, Rob.
[44:06.890 --> 44:07.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[44:07.510 --> 44:23.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're, we're now generations into this media environment of the web in which a lot of people make, uh, you know, their livings full in full or in part by creating content, uh, writing articles, uh, you know, putting up art, whatever, and they put it up somewhere else and just expect it to be okay.
[44:24.250 --> 44:35.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, we have seen so many times, uh, you know, within recent memory of say a news site or something just getting bought by the wrong person or just falling off the web because it ran out of money or something.
[44:35.970 --> 44:42.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: And people lose their entire portfolios because they were just trusting, uh, that material to just remain available.
[44:42.250 --> 44:49.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: And especially on something like the web where, you know, you have a juggernaut like paramount and they run all these sites and it wasn't just MTV.
[44:50.150 --> 44:59.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: There was, um, scads of material from comedy central old daily show episodes, historical material there and, uh, things like that, that were just lost.
[44:59.270 --> 45:05.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, hard drive space is not that expensive in the technical scheme of things.
[45:05.510 --> 45:15.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, you know, they could always, the BBC has sections of its site where if you, um, look up old articles from say the early two thousands, um, the material will still be there.
[45:15.150 --> 45:19.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: There'll just be a little banner on top saying this is, this is, uh, you know, very old material.
[45:19.350 --> 45:21.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Don't mistake it for something new things to that effect.
[45:22.210 --> 45:28.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it serves the historical purpose of keeping the article up there, but also lets you know that, you know, you're not looking at the current stuff.
[45:29.030 --> 45:31.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that's, that's a great solution for this sort of thing.
[45:31.610 --> 45:31.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[45:32.030 --> 45:40.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: And also, you know, to not go hyperlink crazy and, uh, have, have links, uh, in all your content because guaranteed those links are not going to work after five or 10 years.
[45:40.730 --> 45:47.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: I see that all the time when, when, when researching things, uh, we need a better way of archiving the information that we reference as well.
[45:48.070 --> 45:49.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Otherwise it's completely useless.
[45:49.550 --> 45:51.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: We just have a bunch of outdated links.
[45:51.670 --> 45:52.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead, Alex.
[45:54.490 --> 45:56.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: This, this is just so sad.
[45:56.670 --> 46:10.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: And in so many ways, I think another layer of this too, that I think, uh, is missing from most of the reporting that I've read on it is that we, we don't think about this in the context of the future.
[46:10.910 --> 46:13.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: We only think about it in the context of the past.
[46:13.350 --> 46:26.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think that the future of reporting is going to be a lot different than the past reporting we've seen because all future reporting and all types of articles and content is going to be done with the assistance of artificial intelligence.
[46:27.430 --> 46:32.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: All of these new stories from MTV, uh, content from TV.
[46:32.190 --> 46:36.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is all stuff that human beings created in the eighties and the nineties.
[46:36.490 --> 46:46.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's a historical record of what life was like, what music was like and all coming straight out of the brain of, of the human being.
[46:46.230 --> 46:53.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is a really interesting data set about really critical and pivotal times in the United States and elsewhere.
[46:53.790 --> 47:10.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: So I think that we're, we're all missing out on what could be, I think, uh, a really interesting historical archive, uh, and, and a great data set from which a lot of insight could be drawn if it were available to, to researchers and others.
[47:11.110 --> 47:15.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: But the, the reason for pulling this doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me either.
[47:15.970 --> 47:18.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: Perhaps what, what paramount is doing is some kind of play.
[47:19.190 --> 47:30.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: They seem to be saying, well, if we can't make money by making it by we, if we can't be profitable by making this available, then it's not going to be available to anyone.
[47:30.350 --> 47:30.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[47:30.890 --> 47:31.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: They don't see the value in it.
[47:32.010 --> 47:34.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: They don't see that it, it, it, it does anything for anybody.
[47:34.590 --> 47:36.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: And no doubt they have copies themselves.
[47:36.930 --> 47:39.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: They probably have the entire site preserved offline.
[47:39.910 --> 47:46.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, you know, my, my ask to them is to give that to somebody who will maintain it so that it can be preserved.
[47:47.150 --> 47:48.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: It costs you nothing to do that.
[47:48.610 --> 47:48.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[47:49.790 --> 47:57.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: Apparently the Internet archive has made some kind of massive database of searchable articles that from, of, of MTV that go back.
[47:58.030 --> 48:13.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think it's the entirety of it, but every time this happens, you can expect the Internet archive to come to the rescue and store and warehouse and identify and find all of this data and keep it for historical records for mankind.
[48:13.110 --> 48:15.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's just, that's not tenable.
[48:16.030 --> 48:16.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[48:16.570 --> 48:18.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: A couple of letters.
[48:18.410 --> 48:21.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: oth@2600.com is our email address.
[48:21.250 --> 48:22.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: We'd love to hear from our listeners.
[48:22.550 --> 48:23.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: Here's a one letter.
[48:23.790 --> 48:26.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Honestly, you of all people, oh boy, letters that start this way.
[48:27.630 --> 48:34.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: You of all people know better than to store a lot of data on your phone, because if you're arrested, when you cross the border, a lot of it can be held against you.
[48:35.150 --> 48:43.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, I, I believe this is in reference to our conversation about, um, uh, cell phones filling up and, uh, having to be copied over to, uh, other sites and things like that.
[48:44.050 --> 48:47.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, first of all, there's some assumptions here that, uh, I'm not sure to hold.
[48:47.710 --> 48:53.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, the, uh, the writers assuming that, uh, sensitive information is part of that, uh, phones are phones.
[48:54.110 --> 48:55.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, we use them as we see fit.
[48:56.070 --> 48:59.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: And if we want to fill them up with videos and pictures, that's all right, or music.
[48:59.950 --> 49:17.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, and to assume that, um, uh, we're, we're somehow falling down on the job because we have a phone that got full, uh, the, the issue, the story is that, um, these phones are being sold with limited amounts of space and customers aren't necessarily being informed of that when they get the phones,
[49:17.690 --> 49:26.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: because apparently, um, um, uh, SIM cards and, um, uh, expandable, um, uh, drives and cards are, are not a thing anymore.
[49:26.930 --> 49:32.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: And when you have a phone, you have a certain amount of, of storage space and you're supposed to use the cloud after that.
[49:32.470 --> 49:34.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: And of course we resist that.
[49:34.230 --> 49:38.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now this letter continues, set up your own private cloud or SFTP service.
[49:38.690 --> 49:42.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: So you can access your own data privately across the Internet on demand and not keep it on your mobile phone.
[49:43.490 --> 49:43.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[49:44.110 --> 49:49.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I love being told what to do in simple form when it's not a simple thing at all.
[49:49.890 --> 50:00.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, I would like to know, you know, show us some, um, some services that provide this that are trustworthy that you control yourself because it's a great idea.
[50:00.230 --> 50:06.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's, it's, it's, but you just can't bark out an order to somebody and tell them to do something a certain way without telling them what that way is.
[50:07.310 --> 50:13.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: And yeah, this, this is the solution for people to have their own private clouds that they control.
[50:13.930 --> 50:18.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, um, I don't know, are any of us aware of such, uh, systems that exist?
[50:18.430 --> 50:20.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, you're, you're, you're raising your, your hand out.
[50:20.310 --> 50:20.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's go ahead.
[50:21.150 --> 50:21.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[50:21.790 --> 50:26.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: I, I, I, in defense of the letter writer here, I, I think, I think he's right.
[50:26.470 --> 50:27.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's a great idea.
[50:28.030 --> 50:30.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, it's not for everybody, but there are these private clouds that exist.
[50:31.070 --> 50:32.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's things like next cloud.
[50:32.110 --> 50:47.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: I used to use that quite a bit, but you know, for normal everyday people, yeah, it, it might be a little over the top, but for instance, if you are going to a country that might be interested in trade secrets that your company is holding, and you don't necessarily want to have them on your phone,
[50:47.610 --> 50:59.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: or you think you might be stopped at a border for some particular reason, I, I think the writer is absolutely right to try to create some kind of gateway or barrier between you as a physical person and your data.
[50:59.430 --> 51:01.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that that point is, is really well received.
[51:01.890 --> 51:02.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: We make the same point.
[51:03.130 --> 51:04.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: I, I, that's not what I'm disputing here.
[51:04.750 --> 51:11.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's just the assumptions that, uh, we're being careless or that, uh, the, the, the solution is simple and, uh, we should all take advantage of it.
[51:11.910 --> 51:13.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: I, I want the solution to be simple.
[51:13.430 --> 51:16.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: I want to have this system where we can tell people use this.
[51:17.110 --> 51:18.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: No corporation is going to have any control.
[51:19.170 --> 51:21.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're not going to have to pay them to maintain your, your data.
[51:22.750 --> 51:23.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's what I want.
[51:23.610 --> 51:26.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, and if you give me more information about this, we'll talk about it in weeks ahead.
[51:28.490 --> 51:29.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[51:29.810 --> 51:32.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: I guess that's about it for, uh, for us for now.
[51:32.770 --> 51:41.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, we will continue this conversation on Overtime, uh, in, um, in just, uh, a couple of minutes, eight o'clock on YouTube.
[51:41.470 --> 51:42.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Just go to Channel2600.
[51:43.210 --> 51:46.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, I believe Rob, there are 2600 meetings this Friday coming up.
[51:47.110 --> 51:50.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: There are indeed, uh, 2600 meetings happening all over the world.
[51:50.590 --> 51:51.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can find one near you.
[51:51.730 --> 51:52.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can start one near you.
[51:53.010 --> 51:58.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, the local one, uh, has information at a site, uh, called nyc2600.net.
[51:58.670 --> 51:58.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[51:58.970 --> 52:06.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: And these are hacker gatherings where people just gather in a food court somewhere, trade information, get to know each other and have a great deal of fun.
[52:06.390 --> 52:07.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's what it's all about.
[52:08.190 --> 52:12.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: We will see you in three weeks here on WBAI and please support WBAI.
[52:12.930 --> 52:15.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: WBAI give2wbai.org.
[52:16.190 --> 52:17.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: See you in three.
[52:17.290 --> 52:17.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good night.
[56:00.140 --> 56:01.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: And very good evening.
[56:01.720 --> 56:04.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: The program is Off The Hook Overtime.
[56:04.660 --> 56:06.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Emmanuel here, Kyle, over there.
[56:06.840 --> 56:07.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yo, yo.
[56:07.660 --> 56:11.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we have Rob and Gila out there on Skype-land.
[56:12.280 --> 56:13.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: We are indeed here.
[56:13.340 --> 56:15.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: We have Alex also in Skype-land, different part of it.
[56:16.600 --> 56:18.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: As Kyle would say, yo.
[56:18.460 --> 56:18.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[56:20.140 --> 56:20.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Cool.
[56:20.940 --> 56:22.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, great conversation.
[56:24.340 --> 56:28.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: We've been tearing our hair out, going crazy for the conference next week.
[56:28.380 --> 56:28.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Next week!
[56:29.180 --> 56:29.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, my God.
[56:30.080 --> 56:34.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's why we're not on until, I guess, the 27th, right?
[56:34.680 --> 56:35.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Today's what?
[56:35.500 --> 56:36.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: What is today?
[56:36.360 --> 56:37.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Today's the 3rd?
[56:37.460 --> 56:38.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Today's the 3rd.
[56:38.820 --> 56:41.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, so 24th is when we're on next, I believe.
[56:42.240 --> 56:42.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Correct.
[56:42.980 --> 56:43.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Wow, okay.
[56:44.140 --> 56:45.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, yeah, a lot going on.
[56:45.960 --> 56:47.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: All the info is at hope.net.
[56:48.340 --> 56:51.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, of course, you can still get tickets, I think, up until Monday.
[56:51.960 --> 56:52.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: People can do that.
[56:53.080 --> 56:58.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's really turning into something bigger than we expected and super exciting.
[56:59.860 --> 57:01.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we just got the printed programs today.
[57:02.200 --> 57:02.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: Look at that.
[57:02.700 --> 57:03.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Kyle's got one.
[57:04.300 --> 57:06.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we still have printed programs.
[57:06.140 --> 57:07.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's how old school we are.
[57:08.660 --> 57:09.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a lovely thing.
[57:09.680 --> 57:11.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sorry the listeners can't see it.
[57:12.060 --> 57:27.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, they can see it if they come to the conference, which is taking place Friday, July 12th through Sunday, July 14th, St. John's University in Queens, which is the most awesome of all the boroughs of New York City.
[57:27.960 --> 57:28.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: We certainly think so.
[57:29.240 --> 57:30.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you live there, yeah.
[57:30.620 --> 57:34.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Tell us a little bit about Queens for the people who might be uninitiated.
[57:36.080 --> 57:41.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, for those of our listeners who may not know, each of the five boroughs of Queens is its own county.
[57:42.380 --> 57:49.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Queens County is the most diverse county in the country.
[57:49.340 --> 57:53.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you want it, we have it here in Queens.
[57:53.360 --> 57:59.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: There is representation of literally every ethnic group you could possibly think of.
[57:59.600 --> 58:02.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: And when there's representation, there are restaurants.
[58:02.960 --> 58:09.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: You could take a global gastronomic tour, never leaving the county line.
[58:09.340 --> 58:12.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: There is so much to see, so much to do.
[58:12.420 --> 58:14.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have trains that go underground.
[58:14.500 --> 58:15.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have trains that go above ground.
[58:15.980 --> 58:19.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have long-distance commuter trains.
[58:20.560 --> 58:23.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can get around here very easily.
[58:23.000 --> 58:28.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a very exciting, vibrant, fun place to live.
[58:28.360 --> 58:31.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: I have lived in Queens my entire time in New York.
[58:31.500 --> 58:33.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's 15 years now.
[58:33.380 --> 58:36.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: And there's still so much more to explore.
[58:37.420 --> 58:40.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I absolutely love it here.
[58:41.380 --> 58:43.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Queens is everything.
[58:43.940 --> 58:47.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm really excited for people to get to experience that.
[58:47.720 --> 58:48.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: I got my start in Queens.
[58:49.000 --> 58:51.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: I grew up in Jamaica as a small child.
[58:51.620 --> 58:55.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: And yeah, it was all I knew back then, obviously.
[58:55.600 --> 58:58.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: But it was bustling and thriving.
[58:58.920 --> 59:04.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I couldn't really imagine any other type of life than living in Queens.
[59:06.020 --> 59:08.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it still fascinates me to this day.
[59:08.460 --> 59:10.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's still so many parts of it that are unexplored.
[59:10.960 --> 59:18.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: But even around where we're having the conference, there is so much that you could explore that for quite some time and never quite see it all.
[59:18.640 --> 59:24.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: And of course, you have the biggest Chinatown in America only a few minutes away in Flushing.
[59:24.820 --> 59:25.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Main Street, Flushing.
[59:26.000 --> 59:28.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Just so many amazing places to hang out there.
[59:28.900 --> 59:29.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Alex, go ahead.
[59:31.820 --> 59:34.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: I already made my comment in the chat.
[59:34.620 --> 59:40.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, as Gilla was mentioning, if you want anything you want, you can find in Queens.
[59:40.100 --> 59:41.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, if you're interested in it.
[59:41.880 --> 59:47.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: But the flip side of that, of course, is that even if you don't want to see it, you can also find that in Queens, too.
[59:47.500 --> 59:48.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: All the things that you don't want.
[59:50.120 --> 59:51.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Take the country with the smooth there.
[59:52.840 --> 59:56.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, well, yeah, I guess that's one way of putting it.
[59:56.420 --> 59:56.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Profound.
[01:00:00.240 --> 01:00:01.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, yeah, that's happening.
[01:00:01.580 --> 01:00:05.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's why we're going nuts and won't have much time for radio over the next couple of weeks.
[01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:08.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's see.
[01:00:09.140 --> 01:00:11.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: We have some more listener mail.
[01:00:11.400 --> 01:00:12.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: Should we read more listener mail?
[01:00:13.820 --> 01:00:15.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I'll secure the phone.
[01:00:16.680 --> 01:00:18.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, well, we haven't mentioned the phone yet.
[01:00:18.400 --> 01:00:21.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Because as soon as you mention the phone, it's going to ring, even though we don't give out the phone number.
[01:00:21.800 --> 01:00:22.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: How about...
[01:00:22.360 --> 01:00:23.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, you know what I noticed?
[01:00:23.180 --> 01:00:23.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:23.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sorry.
[01:00:24.180 --> 01:00:30.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was perusing the new issue of 2600 that arrived in our house within the last couple of days.
[01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:31.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that happened, too.
[01:00:31.200 --> 01:00:32.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Boy, it's just been nonstop activity.
[01:00:33.720 --> 01:00:39.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you know what I discovered in the announcement section of the new issue of 2600 Magazine?
[01:00:40.220 --> 01:00:42.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: I first of all didn't know we had an announcement section.
[01:00:42.460 --> 01:00:43.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Where is the announcement?
[01:00:43.520 --> 01:00:44.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry, announcements, ads?
[01:00:44.780 --> 01:00:45.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: What's the...
[01:00:46.720 --> 01:00:48.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: The house ad in the back?
[01:00:48.800 --> 01:00:50.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, the marketplace section.
[01:00:50.500 --> 01:00:51.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, the marketplace.
[01:00:51.800 --> 01:00:52.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, that's...
[01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:52.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Marketplace.
[01:00:52.700 --> 01:00:54.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hey, I forgot the nomenclature.
[01:00:54.240 --> 01:00:54.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: There is a...
[01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:55.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I'm wrong.
[01:00:55.600 --> 01:00:57.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: There is an announcement section within the marketplace.
[01:00:57.860 --> 01:00:58.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: So that's why I got confused.
[01:00:58.820 --> 01:00:59.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: See, I'm not wrong.
[01:00:59.360 --> 01:00:59.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, you're not wrong.
[01:00:59.780 --> 01:01:04.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: But do you know what's in there in the announcement about off the hook?
[01:01:04.580 --> 01:01:05.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Not a clue.
[01:01:05.380 --> 01:01:06.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: The announcement section of the marketplace?
[01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:08.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: The phone number.
[01:01:09.200 --> 01:01:09.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, okay.
[01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:14.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, but you went from being correct to being wrong because I don't think off the hook is in the announcement part of the marketplace.
[01:01:14.900 --> 01:01:15.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's under...
[01:01:15.940 --> 01:01:16.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I think you're right, actually.
[01:01:17.580 --> 01:01:19.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm confused with happenings.
[01:01:19.240 --> 01:01:20.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: I confused happenings with announcements.
[01:01:20.780 --> 01:01:21.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're right.
[01:01:21.160 --> 01:01:21.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're right.
[01:01:21.580 --> 01:01:21.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm wrong.
[01:01:21.940 --> 01:01:22.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm even more wrong now.
[01:01:23.240 --> 01:01:24.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know what's in this magazine.
[01:01:25.020 --> 01:01:26.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have no idea what the hell I'm doing.
[01:01:26.660 --> 01:01:28.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, okay, so we don't give out the phone.
[01:01:28.600 --> 01:01:29.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: But it's not...
[01:01:29.200 --> 01:01:30.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not...
[01:01:30.260 --> 01:01:31.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: The phone number could change.
[01:01:31.940 --> 01:01:40.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: And plus, you know, we want people who listen to be the ones calling us, not people who just are, you know, stumbling through a bookstore, find a magazine, say, hey, look, there's a phone number.
[01:01:40.220 --> 01:01:41.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to call it during this time.
[01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:43.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm going to fool them by not even listening.
[01:01:44.020 --> 01:01:45.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, we don't want that to happen.
[01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:55.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because, of course, everyone who calls in has paid very significant attention to everything we talked about during the radio hour, which is why they always key it to...
[01:01:55.160 --> 01:01:56.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: We expect no less.
[01:01:56.520 --> 01:01:58.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we absolutely expect that.
[01:01:58.680 --> 01:01:59.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: So do your homework.
[01:01:59.400 --> 01:02:00.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, go ahead, Alex.
[01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:03.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Speaking of phone numbers, I want to bring something up.
[01:02:03.100 --> 01:02:05.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: And we can decide whether or not we want to do this.
[01:02:06.220 --> 01:02:10.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Perhaps we can take a poll from the chat on YouTube.
[01:02:11.040 --> 01:02:12.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: But I thought it would be funny.
[01:02:13.800 --> 01:02:20.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Today, earlier in the day, I got an invoice from what appeared to be Norton for $499.
[01:02:21.440 --> 01:02:22.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, that's so old.
[01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:24.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've been seeing that for months.
[01:02:24.280 --> 01:02:28.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's the fake Norton invoices and the McAfee virus protection and all that.
[01:02:29.040 --> 01:02:31.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Look, you pay it once, and that's enough.
[01:02:31.380 --> 01:02:32.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: They leave you alone after that.
[01:02:33.540 --> 01:02:34.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's right.
[01:02:34.200 --> 01:02:34.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:02:35.040 --> 01:02:36.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: But obviously, you know, it's a scam.
[01:02:36.980 --> 01:02:39.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's probably some kind of remote access scam.
[01:02:39.640 --> 01:02:42.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: But there's a phone number that's associated with it.
[01:02:42.240 --> 01:02:44.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're supposed to call it, and then that's when they initiate the scam.
[01:02:44.900 --> 01:02:48.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: It might be fun to just give them a ring this evening to see how they're doing.
[01:02:50.100 --> 01:02:51.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that's all you, if you want to do that.
[01:02:53.720 --> 01:02:56.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not going to go on our records here, that's for sure.
[01:02:57.240 --> 01:02:58.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Once they have your phone number...
[01:02:58.220 --> 01:02:59.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: They never let you alone if they have your phone number.
[01:03:02.100 --> 01:03:03.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, I'll call them.
[01:03:03.320 --> 01:03:04.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's fine with me.
[01:03:04.560 --> 01:03:05.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: Totally fine.
[01:03:05.360 --> 01:03:05.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:03:05.560 --> 01:03:13.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, but, you know, it can't be a rebel thing where, you know, we're on hold for, like, five minutes of silence or just, you know, going in some kind of a loop or something like that.
[01:03:14.580 --> 01:03:15.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, certainly not.
[01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:16.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: No.
[01:03:16.260 --> 01:03:20.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, if it becomes rebel-like, that's when we hang up.
[01:03:20.920 --> 01:03:22.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Nobody can suffer through that.
[01:03:24.420 --> 01:03:28.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, if things slow down, which I'm sure they will, we can do this.
[01:03:29.480 --> 01:03:31.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let me read one of the letters that we got.
[01:03:33.140 --> 01:03:35.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: We don't have time to read all the letters on the air, unfortunately.
[01:03:35.740 --> 01:03:37.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Wish we had more time to do that.
[01:03:38.520 --> 01:03:43.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, Emmanuel, just dropping an email to say, Hi, I'm the guy who met with you some 12 years ago in Ljubljana.
[01:03:44.360 --> 01:03:45.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you remember?
[01:03:45.240 --> 01:03:45.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: In Slovenia?
[01:03:46.200 --> 01:03:46.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:46.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:03:47.580 --> 01:03:48.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sorry.
[01:03:48.540 --> 01:03:50.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sorry about what happened in Euro.
[01:03:52.840 --> 01:03:53.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: It wasn't fair.
[01:03:54.000 --> 01:03:54.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: It wasn't fair.
[01:03:54.660 --> 01:03:55.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Slovenia deserved better.
[01:03:57.420 --> 01:03:58.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, sorry about that.
[01:03:59.920 --> 01:04:01.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, yeah, met us 12 years ago.
[01:04:02.220 --> 01:04:04.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Kyle and myself drove you to Zagreb.
[01:04:04.640 --> 01:04:06.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: Zagreb train stations.
[01:04:06.340 --> 01:04:08.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Zagreb, by the way, is in different countries in Croatia.
[01:04:08.480 --> 01:04:10.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: So that's the level of commitment this guy had.
[01:04:12.140 --> 01:04:16.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we were touring the countries of the ex-Yugoslavia.
[01:04:17.440 --> 01:04:19.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Was that back in 2010, I think?
[01:04:19.740 --> 01:04:20.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Wow.
[01:04:20.280 --> 01:04:22.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: That was 14 years ago.
[01:04:22.620 --> 01:04:25.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm still a regular Off The Hook and off-the-wall listener.
[01:04:25.460 --> 01:04:27.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Have since moved from Slovenia to Malta.
[01:04:27.380 --> 01:04:28.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's a place I've never been.
[01:04:29.340 --> 01:04:31.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Learned about Flipper Zero from your show.
[01:04:31.400 --> 01:04:37.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Ordered it online and never received it due to a restriction in lithium battery shipping.
[01:04:37.440 --> 01:04:44.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Had to order it to Slovenia so it would arrive by land and then bring it over to Malta in my carry-on luggage.
[01:04:45.500 --> 01:04:45.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Undeterred.
[01:04:46.220 --> 01:04:50.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: I work now full-time as a security specialist in an industry called iGaming, online gambling.
[01:04:52.160 --> 01:04:55.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: An industry which is currently picking up in the States with rapid speed.
[01:04:57.240 --> 01:04:59.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's been around 12 years since you toured this part of the world.
[01:05:00.060 --> 01:05:01.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: Actually, 14 years.
[01:05:02.120 --> 01:05:03.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think 14 years is what we estimate.
[01:05:05.500 --> 01:05:09.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Planned on visiting New York just before COVID ruined it all for all of us.
[01:05:09.560 --> 01:05:11.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hope to bump into you and Kyle again one day.
[01:05:11.420 --> 01:05:12.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Best regards, Mr. G.
[01:05:12.520 --> 01:05:14.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mr. G, thank you so much for writing to us.
[01:05:14.320 --> 01:05:15.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: And yes, we remember it well.
[01:05:15.720 --> 01:05:18.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you made Slovenia very enjoyable.
[01:05:18.620 --> 01:05:20.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: I remember that car ride to Zagreb.
[01:05:20.300 --> 01:05:27.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that whole voyage was really fascinating and exciting and just very inspirational.
[01:05:28.060 --> 01:05:31.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: All the different countries of former Yugoslavia and Albania.
[01:05:32.020 --> 01:05:37.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I love that we got an update from someone that was on that trip.
[01:05:37.160 --> 01:05:39.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: I've been going through a lot of the film.
[01:05:40.120 --> 01:05:43.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: I took several analog cameras as well as digital.
[01:05:45.060 --> 01:05:48.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Phone cameras weren't quite what they are now at the time.
[01:05:48.980 --> 01:05:54.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I had all of this 35 and 120 millimeter.
[01:05:54.500 --> 01:05:57.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: And so it was really fun to do that.
[01:05:58.060 --> 01:06:00.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: But a lot of it ended up being kind of a time capsule.
[01:06:00.300 --> 01:06:10.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I've been going back and digitizing it and organizing it so that I can go back and find them for one thing if I want to reprint or re-scan.
[01:06:10.620 --> 01:06:12.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: So it conjured a lot of memories.
[01:06:12.640 --> 01:06:14.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: I thought you stored it all in MySpace and it disappeared.
[01:06:15.020 --> 01:06:15.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's not...
[01:06:15.640 --> 01:06:16.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, that's somebody else that did that.
[01:06:17.040 --> 01:06:18.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, we don't do that, do we?
[01:06:18.320 --> 01:06:20.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: We keep things local, right?
[01:06:20.440 --> 01:06:21.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's how you do it.
[01:06:21.480 --> 01:06:22.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: You save things.
[01:06:23.040 --> 01:06:24.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: What's your system?
[01:06:24.360 --> 01:06:25.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: How do you generally do things like that?
[01:06:25.740 --> 01:06:27.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my system's terrible.
[01:06:27.920 --> 01:06:30.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's always being rebuilt and redone.
[01:06:30.220 --> 01:06:33.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Your terrible system is so much better than the way we do it by default.
[01:06:34.040 --> 01:06:34.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:06:35.500 --> 01:06:37.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: I've re-examined it.
[01:06:37.400 --> 01:06:45.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: I get so far sometimes and then reassess it and go back and try to perfect it.
[01:06:46.860 --> 01:06:51.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: I've managed to hold on to things, I think, mostly by making too many copies.
[01:06:51.380 --> 01:07:10.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: But since stuff gets larger as far as space, if you're maintaining your own storage, you can kind of just keep pulling it into larger and larger backups and move it around that way.
[01:07:10.340 --> 01:07:11.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I've also...
[01:07:11.320 --> 01:07:18.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Back when, I guess, disks were plentiful, that was an alternative.
[01:07:19.100 --> 01:07:21.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Wait, disks aren't plentiful anymore?
[01:07:22.060 --> 01:07:23.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, optical, I mean.
[01:07:24.060 --> 01:07:28.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, publishing those made sense when files were much smaller.
[01:07:28.240 --> 01:07:35.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: But again, the digital cameras are much larger now, like you're talking about, exfiltrating them from phones into different formats.
[01:07:35.760 --> 01:07:39.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Generally, it's a solid state or some kind of spinning disk drive.
[01:07:39.680 --> 01:07:51.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, you just have to keep them, at least if you're in disarray and still kind of on that organizational journey.
[01:07:51.900 --> 01:07:59.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: As long as you have a decent mental picture of it and you try to stick with it, I think that's the best solution.
[01:07:59.960 --> 01:08:05.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: And always, I think, get what is attainable done first.
[01:08:05.960 --> 01:08:26.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: And in a sense, like if you have physical media, I like to treat going through it as sort of an indexing process because you have to understand you're making it portable by taking it out of the physical form and putting it into a machine format.
[01:08:26.820 --> 01:08:37.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: And perhaps you may not be using, you may not have the time to use the biggest, baddest machine or resolution.
[01:08:37.240 --> 01:08:50.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I like to just give myself a break and get through it sort of in something that is good enough to use if you want to use it in the digital, in like a digital art or in some kind of print format.
[01:08:50.920 --> 01:09:03.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: But also think of it, think of the advantage of being able to say, share it quickly on a tablet or on a phone or send it to some kind of on-demand publishing.
[01:09:03.480 --> 01:09:07.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can do a lot with it as soon as it's out of that analog state.
[01:09:07.440 --> 01:09:13.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I've been inspired by a lot of the archiving we talk about and that other people do.
[01:09:13.740 --> 01:09:32.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: And just, I don't know, um, extending the ability of having so much in, in, um, celluloid in film, you know, a lot of people don't have memories or they don't have, uh, stories that are captured in that way.
[01:09:32.240 --> 01:09:35.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: They are just in some cloud drive somewhere.
[01:09:35.580 --> 01:09:35.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:09:35.920 --> 01:09:40.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm worried about people not having the same access to memories as we're used to growing up.
[01:09:40.280 --> 01:09:43.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, we had the photo album and you'd pour through it.
[01:09:43.080 --> 01:09:47.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: With, uh, your grandparents or, or relatives of other sorts every now and then.
[01:09:47.340 --> 01:10:00.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it was just, you know, a nice memory, not only what's in the pictures, but just going through the pictures and now, you know, it's all, um, uh, on, on phones and the subject to deletion or, uh, becoming part of some system that, that goes away.
[01:10:01.020 --> 01:10:06.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, and we don't have that physical, tangible thing that means so much to us.
[01:10:06.240 --> 01:10:10.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, it's, it's the look, it's the feel, you know, it's, it's the smell.
[01:10:10.140 --> 01:10:12.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: Sometimes the mustiness of, of, you know, a book.
[01:10:13.160 --> 01:10:16.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, and those are, you know, that's what, what precious memories come from.
[01:10:16.940 --> 01:10:28.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I, I don't think we should be so quick to just cast those aside and in favor of something that seems to be more convenient, but in many, many ways doesn't do the job nearly as well.
[01:10:28.140 --> 01:10:36.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, good luck finding what was on your first iPhone as opposed to, you know, something that your grandfather passed down to you.
[01:10:36.520 --> 01:10:39.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's, uh, you know, a physical book or something like that.
[01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:47.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's, um, it's just something, you know, we can, we can benefit from new technology and, and the latest and, and best and all that.
[01:10:48.420 --> 01:10:58.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, but if we discard what came before it, we, we run a tremendous risk of just losing so much that can't be recovered.
[01:10:58.300 --> 01:11:00.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we see examples of that all the time.
[01:11:01.800 --> 01:11:02.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Gila, please.
[01:11:03.240 --> 01:11:11.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, we have a listener who, uh, said, been going through crates and crates of good old physical media today, trying to organize it a bit.
[01:11:11.440 --> 01:11:12.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was fun.
[01:11:12.620 --> 01:11:16.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Found the entire story of my life in books and comics from days forgotten.
[01:11:17.660 --> 01:11:18.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: See, that's great.
[01:11:18.600 --> 01:11:26.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think of it as like a ongoing thing as not as I guess that's an artistic way to look at it, that it's never done.
[01:11:26.700 --> 01:11:27.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's incomplete.
[01:11:28.060 --> 01:11:45.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I think you have to do the best you can if you're a working artist or you're doing commercial stuff, you're sort of really busy getting through an entire workflow and, and you can maybe not have as much time for your own personal stuff and family stuff then also falls by the wayside.
[01:11:45.880 --> 01:11:52.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: But getting, getting comfortable with that process, you can approach it at any stage and just revisit it.
[01:11:52.360 --> 01:12:04.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: And if you do that sort of habitually or even as a way to sort of think about your day or like process other stuff, or maybe, uh, as a way of connecting with your family, I think that can be really fun.
[01:12:05.280 --> 01:12:12.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, sadly, oftentimes you go through a lot of this stuff when it's a really heavy time.
[01:12:12.380 --> 01:12:29.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, when you're trying to put together memorials, when you're trying to go through and that can be profoundly, um, meaningful in the moment for families and stuff, but you've got to realize you can do that anytime with people while they're around and actually maybe,
[01:12:29.380 --> 01:12:39.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: um, do another thing like augment it with audio recordings or, or video recordings of people sharing a story about a photo that conjures a memory.
[01:12:39.460 --> 01:12:48.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: That was the whole idea of capturing this stuff is preserving, and being able to retell and recall that stuff.
[01:12:48.640 --> 01:12:55.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: So doing it with other people, it can be like a, uh, a weekend thing you do where it's like a part of your, your routine.
[01:12:55.340 --> 01:13:16.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: And in the process, you're creating these lovely, like sort of albums and, and, um, uh, at least more or less, less chaotic bins of things that, that you maybe made labels or at least got the dust off of and, you know, where it is, like up high away from,
[01:13:16.360 --> 01:13:19.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: from moisture and, and, uh, hazards.
[01:13:20.460 --> 01:13:34.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: One of the best things I think you can do, um, and it's, it's, it's relatively easy to do, uh, is, um, uh, create a new photo album for your friends or relatives, uh, and, and, and send it to them.
[01:13:34.220 --> 01:13:45.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, it's, you can take, you can take, um, an existing photo album, uh, and simply scan it, uh, you know, at high resolution and submit it to one of these companies that makes books.
[01:13:46.340 --> 01:13:51.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: And what you get back in return is basically a duplicate of the album that, that you scanned.
[01:13:52.320 --> 01:13:55.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, you can, um, uh, change the page order.
[01:13:55.600 --> 01:13:57.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can add comments and do all kinds of things like that.
[01:13:57.780 --> 01:14:02.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can create new albums with, you know, digital pictures or old pictures as well.
[01:14:02.540 --> 01:14:09.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, but it's the real special part is creating the physical book that you send to somebody, just sending them a download link.
[01:14:10.160 --> 01:14:11.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, I've done both.
[01:14:11.320 --> 01:14:12.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've done both.
[01:14:12.240 --> 01:14:15.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the one that resonates is the one where they have it in their hands.
[01:14:15.240 --> 01:14:16.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: We send somebody a link.
[01:14:16.660 --> 01:14:25.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: If they even go to it in the first place, it's something that gets lost with all the data, all the junk that piles up on our computers and our phones.
[01:14:25.980 --> 01:14:31.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: But having that book there on the bookshelf in front of them, it's something that they will open every now and then.
[01:14:32.420 --> 01:14:35.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you can, you can share that, that experience.
[01:14:35.700 --> 01:14:37.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's something that has not gone away.
[01:14:37.960 --> 01:14:38.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: I find it surprising.
[01:14:39.120 --> 01:14:51.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: It took me this long to find a way of doing that because I believe in saving these things, but I wasn't so much sharing them and being able to do that is just, it, it, it really feels amazing when you're able to pull that off.
[01:14:52.040 --> 01:14:52.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:14:52.640 --> 01:15:17.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: That, that, like that magic of reproducing, taking it out of, in a sense, out of the vault, sort of out of a format that is hard to share and then making it sort of infinitely accessible and portable with different ways of distributing it, like a printed book or presentation,
[01:15:17.000 --> 01:15:18.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: a video collage.
[01:15:18.980 --> 01:15:33.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, probably there's a myriad of, uh, uh, other tools, generative tools that can process all of this into, uh, sort of a wild, uh, hallucination of your, of your life.
[01:15:33.500 --> 01:15:41.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: That'll be, that'll be the, the, the, the, the kind of thing, you know, you can, uh, give as a gift for the holidays.
[01:15:41.240 --> 01:15:54.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm excited for all of it, but definitely, yeah, like get that awkward photo, like make a t-shirt out of it, you know, or that like favorite pet from like a, a screen grab in a, a family movie.
[01:15:54.360 --> 01:15:57.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: I used to get the awkward family photo, uh, calendar every year.
[01:15:57.440 --> 01:15:58.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's cool.
[01:15:58.400 --> 01:15:58.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:15:58.760 --> 01:15:58.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:15:59.020 --> 01:15:59.020]  Yeah.
[01:15:59.040 --> 01:16:01.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: People, people have traditions like that already.
[01:16:01.480 --> 01:16:01.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:16:01.740 --> 01:16:03.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: I saw my family in there and I didn't like it anymore.
[01:16:04.640 --> 01:16:06.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know who gave them the picture either.
[01:16:07.020 --> 01:16:09.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: And there was nothing wrong with my hair that day.
[01:16:09.100 --> 01:16:09.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was just windy.
[01:16:10.820 --> 01:16:12.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I, I want to move on.
[01:16:12.440 --> 01:16:20.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think thinking about the old ways also, you have to think about the new ways, like what, what with these phones that are capturing it when they're full, like, what is the state?
[01:16:20.760 --> 01:16:24.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Do we, we, we panicking is we've, I think gone through that.
[01:16:24.700 --> 01:16:37.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: It is disconcerting, but we have to kind of have a mode we go into where it's like, Oh, this is the time to develop the role instead of developing some sort of physical media.
[01:16:37.620 --> 01:16:45.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're actually just sort of adding it to the, the haystack of your, of what you've captured across devices.
[01:16:45.580 --> 01:16:45.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Go ahead.
[01:16:45.880 --> 01:16:45.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[01:16:45.920 --> 01:16:47.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: So two things.
[01:16:47.580 --> 01:16:51.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, the first is we were talking about this and I was thinking about my brother.
[01:16:51.900 --> 01:16:55.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, my brother has a son who is going to be six in October.
[01:16:56.000 --> 01:17:06.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: And obviously as a parent, now there are so many pictures and some get shared with the wider family and some don't.
[01:17:06.260 --> 01:17:15.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: And what he has begun doing is for mother's day each year, he makes my mom a calendar with good pictures from the year.
[01:17:15.220 --> 01:17:23.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: So it's also this really fun way to get to see him, you know, growing up and he puts like pictures of us on the days for our birthdays.
[01:17:23.940 --> 01:17:24.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's very cute.
[01:17:24.760 --> 01:17:25.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: I like it a lot.
[01:17:25.460 --> 01:17:35.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: But the other thing I was going to say is that the, uh, listener who was commenting about looking at old media today, uh, did follow through with two more notes.
[01:17:36.660 --> 01:17:39.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, he said, there's something magical about finding a book in a shelf.
[01:17:39.300 --> 01:17:42.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: And then it has the markings from a grandparent or even further.
[01:17:42.440 --> 01:17:51.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Once found an old Norbert Wiener thing with my grandfather's liner notes, uh, low bandwidth, intergenerational information transmission, which may be my new favorite phrase.
[01:17:52.220 --> 01:17:54.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, that's what really irks me with Kindle.
[01:17:54.320 --> 01:17:57.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: I wish I could transfer my underlinings from Kindle books to the next generation.
[01:17:58.140 --> 01:18:03.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Someone else, Tim in Connecticut, says, one thing that my brother-in-law has done is, what is that?
[01:18:03.880 --> 01:18:09.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, that is a big hit every Christmas is a printed calendar with family pictures done on opposite sides of days.
[01:18:09.660 --> 01:18:10.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: He changes each year.
[01:18:11.080 --> 01:18:13.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is that static thing happening for everybody?
[01:18:13.180 --> 01:18:14.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or is that a local thing here?
[01:18:15.340 --> 01:18:16.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sorry.
[01:18:16.160 --> 01:18:17.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're just setting up a few fireworks.
[01:18:18.340 --> 01:18:19.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, continue.
[01:18:19.840 --> 01:18:20.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Don't worry.
[01:18:20.380 --> 01:18:20.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: Don't worry about us.
[01:18:20.920 --> 01:18:21.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, no, no.
[01:18:21.240 --> 01:18:24.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: That was, I'm done talking, but that was fireworks, huh?
[01:18:24.140 --> 01:18:24.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:18:24.300 --> 01:18:24.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:18:25.360 --> 01:18:28.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're showing our patriotism and the only way we know how.
[01:18:30.280 --> 01:18:33.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I thought it was my serotonin receptors.
[01:18:35.040 --> 01:18:36.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: I thought something was wrong with our headphones.
[01:18:37.620 --> 01:18:38.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, there probably is.
[01:18:38.680 --> 01:18:45.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, the thing that gets me fireworks, they really haven't advanced that much.
[01:18:45.180 --> 01:18:56.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, shouldn't we be getting better things in the sky than just the same old, you know, lights and okay, you know, that's red, that's white, that's a streak in the sky, and they sound the same.
[01:18:56.720 --> 01:18:57.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know what?
[01:18:57.800 --> 01:18:58.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm closing the window.
[01:18:59.280 --> 01:19:01.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, but, um, I don't know.
[01:19:01.460 --> 01:19:02.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Shouldn't that have evolved?
[01:19:02.800 --> 01:19:05.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Is that something that we're, we're, we're neglecting technology was?
[01:19:06.420 --> 01:19:18.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Potentially, but we did last night, uh, we watched a video of my favorite fireworks, um, show ever, which was San Diego, 4th of July in 2012.
[01:19:19.200 --> 01:19:21.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the timers got messed up.
[01:19:21.080 --> 01:19:25.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: So it was about to be a 30 minute long firework show.
[01:19:25.300 --> 01:19:27.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it all went off in 15 seconds.
[01:19:27.560 --> 01:19:35.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it is the funniest thing you will ever see because it's just like smoke and, and then it's done.
[01:19:35.720 --> 01:19:37.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's a lot of pissed off people.
[01:19:38.280 --> 01:19:38.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh yeah.
[01:19:39.120 --> 01:19:40.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: And a few injuries.
[01:19:40.240 --> 01:19:40.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's pretty crazy.
[01:19:41.660 --> 01:19:41.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[01:19:41.880 --> 01:19:42.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll look at that later.
[01:19:42.760 --> 01:19:52.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: When you said, uh, uh, fireworks show, I, I, in my mind, I pictured a reality show having to do with fireworks, which now that I say it out loud is a really good idea.
[01:19:52.140 --> 01:19:52.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Here's what you do.
[01:19:52.720 --> 01:19:58.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: You have a family whose business and tradition has been putting on the best fireworks show in the area.
[01:19:59.060 --> 01:20:06.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you have like an eight episode series where they're building up to the big display with all kinds of family conflict and intrigue and things like that.
[01:20:07.080 --> 01:20:09.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: And suppliers, will they deliver it on time?
[01:20:09.320 --> 01:20:11.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: What about, you know, do we want Chinese fireworks?
[01:20:11.880 --> 01:20:12.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do we want to go all American?
[01:20:12.920 --> 01:20:13.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Things like that.
[01:20:13.540 --> 01:20:17.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: And then you show the fireworks as part of the conclusion of the last episode.
[01:20:17.860 --> 01:20:20.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Everybody in the country is watching it and we all make a ton of money.
[01:20:22.100 --> 01:20:23.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think they've already done that.
[01:20:23.740 --> 01:20:24.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: What do you mean they've already done that?
[01:20:24.760 --> 01:20:26.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: I just came up with the idea now.
[01:20:26.740 --> 01:20:27.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: God damn it.
[01:20:27.840 --> 01:20:28.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, let's give out our phone number.
[01:20:28.880 --> 01:20:33.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sounds like some B, like, learning channel reality show.
[01:20:33.980 --> 01:20:34.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
[01:20:34.920 --> 01:20:36.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's what that's where I'd pitch it to.
[01:20:36.860 --> 01:20:39.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you remember the learning channel actually was about learning?
[01:20:39.480 --> 01:20:40.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you used to learn stuff.
[01:20:40.880 --> 01:20:45.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Every channel that's out there now has turned into the same channel.
[01:20:45.520 --> 01:20:46.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: They're all stupid.
[01:20:46.800 --> 01:20:49.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: They all show law and order repeats.
[01:20:49.600 --> 01:20:53.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, arts and entertainment is not about arts and entertainment.
[01:20:53.340 --> 01:20:55.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Bravo is no longer fine arts at all.
[01:20:55.600 --> 01:20:56.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Science fiction.
[01:20:56.620 --> 01:20:58.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: They don't even show science fiction.
[01:20:58.180 --> 01:20:59.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's all the same damn thing.
[01:20:59.940 --> 01:21:02.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Even BBC America doesn't show British programs.
[01:21:02.600 --> 01:21:04.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, it's... That's why they changed all the names.
[01:21:04.960 --> 01:21:08.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, they should just be channel A, B, C, and D, you know, they don't...
[01:21:08.060 --> 01:21:11.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Basically, like, TLC doesn't stand for the learning channel anymore.
[01:21:11.060 --> 01:21:12.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: It just stands for TLC.
[01:21:12.580 --> 01:21:13.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: What does that even mean?
[01:21:14.280 --> 01:21:16.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: Who gets to say that?
[01:21:16.200 --> 01:21:17.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: I know what it stands for.
[01:21:18.100 --> 01:21:18.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: MSNBC.
[01:21:19.240 --> 01:21:22.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: MSNBC, Microsoft, and NBC pulled resources.
[01:21:22.320 --> 01:21:25.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: I know Microsoft's not involved anymore, but that's still what it stands for.
[01:21:25.920 --> 01:21:37.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: CNBC, they got away with something because at the time, they affiliated with NBC, you know, obviously, but they were called the Cable News and Business Channel, I believe.
[01:21:38.040 --> 01:21:39.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's spelled CNBC.
[01:21:39.580 --> 01:21:46.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: So that was kind of clever, but that's as far as I'm willing to allow rewriting history and initials and things like that.
[01:21:46.700 --> 01:22:02.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: The other thing that really gets me, I'm sorry, I'm going off on a tangent here, but if you go through the schedule, almost every channel is binging on a particular program, like South Park or Young Sheldon or Law & Order or CSI, 12 hours of the same damn program.
[01:22:02.920 --> 01:22:04.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: How is that a network?
[01:22:04.300 --> 01:22:05.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: How is that a TV channel?
[01:22:05.420 --> 01:22:06.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's no creativity.
[01:22:06.420 --> 01:22:07.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's no imagination.
[01:22:07.360 --> 01:22:12.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's somebody hitting play on a computer somewhere, and it's just going all day long with nobody watching over it.
[01:22:12.800 --> 01:22:13.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're trying to sell ads.
[01:22:14.180 --> 01:22:16.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're so... this is like...
[01:22:16.180 --> 01:22:17.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Don't get me started on ads, man.
[01:22:17.860 --> 01:22:18.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're surviving.
[01:22:19.020 --> 01:22:20.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: They need to sell these ads.
[01:22:20.720 --> 01:22:26.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Look, when I was a kid, I don't want to keep going to make this my refrain, but when I was a kid and you turn on the TV, there was an announcer.
[01:22:27.160 --> 01:22:29.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: The announcer would say, this is channel two.
[01:22:29.420 --> 01:22:30.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: Coming up next is this.
[01:22:30.860 --> 01:22:31.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was cool.
[01:22:31.520 --> 01:22:31.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was good.
[01:22:31.900 --> 01:22:32.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was personality.
[01:22:33.020 --> 01:22:34.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the programs changed.
[01:22:34.560 --> 01:22:35.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: They were different.
[01:22:35.520 --> 01:22:37.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you know what the best thing about that TV channel was?
[01:22:37.940 --> 01:22:39.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's signed off at night.
[01:22:39.860 --> 01:22:44.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, they turned the damn transmitter off, and they all went home at like two in the morning or something.
[01:22:44.760 --> 01:22:50.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is your announcer letting you know that this is your favorite channel.
[01:22:50.560 --> 01:22:52.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're tuned to Channel2600.
[01:22:52.780 --> 01:22:56.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's... I guess you could make a parallel there.
[01:22:57.520 --> 01:22:58.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Sure, why not?
[01:22:58.600 --> 01:23:02.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: But you know, channel 11, I remember the policeman guy who did the afternoon kid shows.
[01:23:03.620 --> 01:23:07.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Channel 9 was the monster chiller horror theater or whatever they called that.
[01:23:08.840 --> 01:23:10.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: And they all were different.
[01:23:10.880 --> 01:23:13.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: They all had their own... Channel 5 was not Fox.
[01:23:13.820 --> 01:23:14.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was Metro Media.
[01:23:14.800 --> 01:23:17.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: And they had their own unique take on things.
[01:23:17.360 --> 01:23:19.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: They're the ones that coined the phrase, it's 10 PM.
[01:23:19.200 --> 01:23:20.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you know where your children are?
[01:23:20.940 --> 01:23:23.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: Channel 2 was the one that stayed on almost 24 hours.
[01:23:24.020 --> 01:23:27.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: They signed off at about 530 at night and then signed on at six in the morning.
[01:23:27.780 --> 01:23:31.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: And in between, they had a black and white test pattern, which is kind of cool.
[01:23:31.720 --> 01:23:32.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead, Gila.
[01:23:32.760 --> 01:23:41.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: All I was going to say is that when I was a kid living in Nebraska, we, you know, channel 9 WWOR ran nationally.
[01:23:42.040 --> 01:23:44.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I was obsessed with what was on channel 9.
[01:23:44.900 --> 01:23:49.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I had a stuffed animal that was named channel 9 the dog.
[01:23:49.900 --> 01:23:52.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: Did they call it channel 9 when it was a superstation?
[01:23:52.600 --> 01:23:53.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:23:53.700 --> 01:23:54.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Interesting.
[01:23:54.700 --> 01:23:56.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is channel 9 WOR.
[01:23:56.500 --> 01:23:57.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: But we didn't have a channel 9.
[01:23:57.960 --> 01:24:06.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: WGN in Chicago was also a superstation, but they called it WGN America, as opposed to their channel 9 WGN TV.
[01:24:08.060 --> 01:24:17.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, it's the Canadian system gets WGN the TV channel, whereas the United States got WGN Superstation, which was just another channel that was like all the rest.
[01:24:17.880 --> 01:24:19.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: And then they turned it into News Nation.
[01:24:19.720 --> 01:24:20.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: So that's what became of that.
[01:24:22.140 --> 01:24:22.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[01:24:22.840 --> 01:24:24.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: But do you know what WGN stood for?
[01:24:25.080 --> 01:24:26.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, that's a good question.
[01:24:27.880 --> 01:24:29.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: I wish I did.
[01:24:30.120 --> 01:24:31.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: Any guesses?
[01:24:32.380 --> 01:24:32.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: No?
[01:24:34.100 --> 01:24:34.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Nobody knows.
[01:24:35.420 --> 01:24:36.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: Where are you going now?
[01:24:39.570 --> 01:24:40.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, that's good.
[01:24:41.070 --> 01:24:41.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's good.
[01:24:41.490 --> 01:24:42.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if that's true.
[01:24:42.550 --> 01:24:44.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: What's good, nerds?
[01:24:44.990 --> 01:24:49.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: I know KTLA stands for Television Los Angeles, I'm pretty sure.
[01:24:50.150 --> 01:24:50.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: But go ahead.
[01:24:51.030 --> 01:24:51.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: What?
[01:24:53.150 --> 01:24:58.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: It started out, it was a subsidiary of the Chicago Tribune Company.
[01:24:58.630 --> 01:25:00.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: WGN stood for World's Greatest Newspaper.
[01:25:00.890 --> 01:25:01.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, wow.
[01:25:01.690 --> 01:25:02.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's it.
[01:25:02.610 --> 01:25:05.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: And they're still owned by Tribune Broadcasting, I believe.
[01:25:06.030 --> 01:25:11.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: They're owned by the same people, WPIX, KTLA, other stations too.
[01:25:11.990 --> 01:25:13.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not sure what the other ones are.
[01:25:13.770 --> 01:25:15.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we know a lot about this, don't we?
[01:25:17.170 --> 01:25:17.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:25:18.190 --> 01:25:25.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, something similar is WTMJ in Milwaukee, which is named after the Milwaukee Journal, which then became the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
[01:25:25.910 --> 01:25:27.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's the Journal Milwaukee, WTMJ.
[01:25:27.750 --> 01:25:30.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: And not named after the jaw problem.
[01:25:30.450 --> 01:25:31.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Not named after the painful jaw condition.
[01:25:32.670 --> 01:25:36.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: The question I had, though, going back for a second, Romper Room.
[01:25:36.770 --> 01:25:38.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Did y'all watch Romper Room?
[01:25:38.630 --> 01:25:39.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, hell yeah, Romper Room.
[01:25:39.990 --> 01:25:40.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: Definitely.
[01:25:40.970 --> 01:25:43.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: I believe the guy's name was Sandy Becker.
[01:25:44.030 --> 01:25:46.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe somebody can look that up and see if Sandy Becker actually existed.
[01:25:47.170 --> 01:25:50.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I just remember that name from my childhood, Romper Room.
[01:25:50.690 --> 01:25:51.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: And do you remember The Magic Mirror?
[01:25:52.990 --> 01:25:55.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: Not offhand, but I probably would if I started watching it again.
[01:25:56.330 --> 01:25:56.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[01:25:56.830 --> 01:26:01.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: The Magic Mirror and the person who hosted Romper Room when I was a kid on WGN.
[01:26:02.330 --> 01:26:04.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry, WOR, which was the one that I was watching.
[01:26:05.070 --> 01:26:06.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: Her name was Miss Molly.
[01:26:06.950 --> 01:26:09.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: And at the end, she would look in the mirror and, you know, see all of you.
[01:26:09.990 --> 01:26:11.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: She never saw me.
[01:26:11.990 --> 01:26:14.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: She never got close to seeing me.
[01:26:15.050 --> 01:26:17.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, you over here, she saw you all the time.
[01:26:18.110 --> 01:26:18.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[01:26:18.790 --> 01:26:25.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: To fully explain this for people who aren't familiar, she would look in the Magic Mirror and say hello to all the little boys and girls she saw.
[01:26:25.270 --> 01:26:28.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: So she'd... I see Emmanuel and I see Kyle and I see Alex.
[01:26:29.030 --> 01:26:29.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I remember that.
[01:26:29.750 --> 01:26:30.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: I remember that.
[01:26:30.550 --> 01:26:32.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that was the end of Romper Room though, wasn't it?
[01:26:32.410 --> 01:26:32.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
[01:26:32.830 --> 01:26:33.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[01:26:33.310 --> 01:26:34.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I do remember that.
[01:26:34.470 --> 01:26:34.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely.
[01:26:35.110 --> 01:26:35.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's the end of Romper Room.
[01:26:35.610 --> 01:26:38.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: Tell me today, did all of my friends have fun at play?
[01:26:38.470 --> 01:26:40.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: She never saw me.
[01:26:40.670 --> 01:26:42.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: I would get up close to the TV.
[01:26:42.650 --> 01:26:43.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: She never saw Gila.
[01:26:44.910 --> 01:26:46.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you got to play the game.
[01:26:46.250 --> 01:26:47.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: Did you send her a postcard?
[01:26:48.710 --> 01:26:49.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't remember.
[01:26:50.070 --> 01:26:50.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[01:26:50.390 --> 01:26:52.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, your parents should have done that because that's...
[01:26:52.310 --> 01:26:53.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's how you... Yeah.
[01:26:53.670 --> 01:27:02.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I'm assuming that, you know, like with the Starbucks name, even if I'd sent her a postcard, it wouldn't have made a difference because she would have looked at it and said, I have no idea how to say this.
[01:27:02.630 --> 01:27:05.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you know what my Starbucks name is before I started using the app?
[01:27:05.150 --> 01:27:06.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's venti iced latte.
[01:27:07.330 --> 01:27:08.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's a nice name.
[01:27:08.630 --> 01:27:10.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because they don't know how to say Gila.
[01:27:12.270 --> 01:27:20.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you know, if you went to Ellis Island and gave them that name, I'm sure you'd wind up with Gila because they wouldn't want you to go around with a name like that.
[01:27:21.010 --> 01:27:23.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: But when you said the Magic Mirror, I thought you meant the Magic Garden.
[01:27:23.330 --> 01:27:24.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, you guys watched the Magic Garden, right?
[01:27:25.570 --> 01:27:26.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's... Carol and Paula, yes.
[01:27:26.850 --> 01:27:28.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's classic.
[01:27:28.550 --> 01:27:31.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's something, again, WPIX Channel 11 here in New York.
[01:27:32.570 --> 01:27:35.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: And WPIX, by the way, used to be owned by the Daily News.
[01:27:35.450 --> 01:27:38.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: In fact, they were in the same offices on 42nd Street.
[01:27:38.650 --> 01:27:40.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: So that's kind of interesting as well.
[01:27:40.730 --> 01:27:42.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's why it was WPIX.
[01:27:42.170 --> 01:27:43.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sorry, not to interrupt.
[01:27:43.750 --> 01:27:44.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: But the Daily News was...
[01:27:44.690 --> 01:27:46.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because the Daily News was the picture paper.
[01:27:46.930 --> 01:27:47.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: Was it?
[01:27:47.470 --> 01:27:48.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, it was.
[01:27:48.490 --> 01:27:49.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: So WPIX.
[01:27:49.490 --> 01:27:50.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was a tabloid.
[01:27:50.270 --> 01:27:51.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, that sort of makes sense.
[01:27:51.550 --> 01:27:52.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right, trivia question.
[01:27:53.470 --> 01:27:56.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: And Kyle, you're exempt from this because I think you might know the answer.
[01:27:56.530 --> 01:27:57.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: But what...
[01:27:57.650 --> 01:27:59.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: We said Daily News on WPIX.
[01:28:03.050 --> 01:28:03.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: What station...
[01:28:04.270 --> 01:28:06.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right, I'll tell you right now, it's a radio station, it's not a TV station.
[01:28:06.810 --> 01:28:09.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: What radio station did the New York Times own?
[01:28:11.010 --> 01:28:12.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: You have 30 seconds.
[01:28:14.980 --> 01:28:15.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead, Alex.
[01:28:17.360 --> 01:28:17.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: WQXR.
[01:28:17.920 --> 01:28:18.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's correct.
[01:28:18.500 --> 01:28:19.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I hope you didn't just look that up.
[01:28:20.220 --> 01:28:20.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, I didn't.
[01:28:20.980 --> 01:28:24.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: I just guessed, actually, because it seems like the type of station that they would own.
[01:28:27.280 --> 01:28:31.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Wow, you somehow made that seem condescending, and I'm not sure...
[01:28:31.280 --> 01:28:33.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: I intended it to be.
[01:28:35.500 --> 01:28:36.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, all right.
[01:28:38.820 --> 01:28:41.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: I just remember growing up...
[01:28:41.340 --> 01:28:42.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, it wasn't that funny.
[01:28:43.140 --> 01:28:46.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Listening to that's because that was a station that was played in my house.
[01:28:46.800 --> 01:28:47.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: WQXR.
[01:28:47.280 --> 01:28:49.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: It used to be AM, 1560 AM.
[01:28:51.260 --> 01:28:56.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Which, a tremendous loss, and we lost classical music on the AM dial because it really sounded cool.
[01:28:56.580 --> 01:29:02.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: But it used to be WQXR and WQXR FM, the radio stations of the New York Times.
[01:29:02.040 --> 01:29:03.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll never forget the way they announced that.
[01:29:03.780 --> 01:29:09.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: And yes, Kyle, we are taking calls, even though we didn't give out the phone number, but we will get to that at some point.
[01:29:09.100 --> 01:29:09.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead, Alex.
[01:29:11.080 --> 01:29:18.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: I used to listen when I worked at... I remember a long time ago when I worked at TCBY, the country's best yogurt.
[01:29:18.560 --> 01:29:21.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: You may not know this, but you're still on staff there.
[01:29:21.360 --> 01:29:22.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: I dropped in.
[01:29:22.240 --> 01:29:25.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I dropped in the other day, and they have timesheets.
[01:29:25.300 --> 01:29:26.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: What is frozen yogurt?
[01:29:26.000 --> 01:29:27.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, yours is empty.
[01:29:27.820 --> 01:29:27.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't even understand it.
[01:29:28.020 --> 01:29:31.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yours is empty, but apparently they can't, like, delete names.
[01:29:31.960 --> 01:29:34.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: So you might want to pick up a shift or something.
[01:29:35.060 --> 01:29:35.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Those were good times.
[01:29:35.960 --> 01:29:37.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: I had this funny thing.
[01:29:37.560 --> 01:29:41.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: So I used to listen to QXR sometimes over there when I could get it.
[01:29:41.300 --> 01:29:46.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: But most of the time, I would listen to a different classical station from WSHU, 91.1.
[01:29:46.520 --> 01:29:46.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: What was that?
[01:29:46.980 --> 01:29:47.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: A swine.
[01:29:48.640 --> 01:29:49.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sorry.
[01:29:49.680 --> 01:29:52.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I work with another radio station, and they keep interfering with us.
[01:29:52.880 --> 01:29:55.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I have very, very good feelings about that.
[01:29:55.720 --> 01:30:00.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: They're from Connecticut, but they have a better signal in New York than the station that is from New York.
[01:30:00.520 --> 01:30:00.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: I know.
[01:30:01.060 --> 01:30:03.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's really ridiculous, but that's exactly it.
[01:30:03.300 --> 01:30:11.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: So I used to be able to get on this old clock radio at WSHU, and it was all classical, just like WQXR.
[01:30:11.380 --> 01:30:12.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, not just like.
[01:30:13.320 --> 01:30:14.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: WQXR had personality.
[01:30:15.340 --> 01:30:16.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: WSHU had a satellite dish.
[01:30:16.980 --> 01:30:17.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a big difference.
[01:30:17.780 --> 01:30:20.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think WSHU had some personality.
[01:30:20.460 --> 01:30:26.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: And in particular, one show that was every Sunday, Sunday matinee with David Bouchier, was pretty good.
[01:30:26.220 --> 01:30:33.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I learned a lot about classical music, just listening to that with nothing else to do in the winter at TCBY.
[01:30:33.800 --> 01:30:39.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: And nobody's really coming in for frozen yogurt in a shopping center on Long Island in the dead of winter.
[01:30:39.640 --> 01:30:40.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: So I would listen to this.
[01:30:40.740 --> 01:30:44.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: And somehow, I think a lot of this just seeped into my head.
[01:30:44.460 --> 01:30:47.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: I had this weird thing happen to me when I was in law school.
[01:30:47.560 --> 01:30:50.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: I was waiting outside of a professor's office.
[01:30:51.740 --> 01:30:53.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: And he was in with another student.
[01:30:54.060 --> 01:30:55.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think he was talking to my...
[01:30:55.420 --> 01:30:57.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: I wanted to talk to my civil procedure professor.
[01:30:57.720 --> 01:31:01.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: And there was a constitutional law professor from a different section across the hall.
[01:31:02.080 --> 01:31:06.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: And he had his door open, and he was listening to classical music.
[01:31:06.860 --> 01:31:08.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I recognized it.
[01:31:09.420 --> 01:31:12.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: And so I said to him, I said, oh, Professor Teachout.
[01:31:12.160 --> 01:31:14.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: I said, I couldn't help but over here.
[01:31:14.140 --> 01:31:16.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: I said, is that Bach you have on?
[01:31:17.160 --> 01:31:19.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: And he said, well, I don't know what it is.
[01:31:19.380 --> 01:31:21.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm just, you know, I've got kind of random things on here.
[01:31:21.760 --> 01:31:22.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: He said, let me look.
[01:31:23.120 --> 01:31:25.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I never really talked to this guy before.
[01:31:25.040 --> 01:31:26.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: He didn't know me at all.
[01:31:26.520 --> 01:31:27.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: I wasn't one of his students.
[01:31:28.360 --> 01:31:30.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: And he said, well, it is Bach, as a matter of fact.
[01:31:31.400 --> 01:31:34.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I said, is it one of the Brandenburg concertos?
[01:31:34.600 --> 01:31:35.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: And he said, well, let me see.
[01:31:36.460 --> 01:31:37.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: He said, it is.
[01:31:37.760 --> 01:31:39.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, you're wasting this guy's time.
[01:31:39.220 --> 01:31:39.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, go ahead.
[01:31:40.520 --> 01:31:45.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then I said, is it the third Brandenburg concerto by Bach?
[01:31:46.240 --> 01:31:48.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: And he said, well, let me see.
[01:31:48.420 --> 01:31:50.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: He had to make three trips to check.
[01:31:50.340 --> 01:31:51.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Why didn't you just bring the damn record out?
[01:31:52.580 --> 01:31:55.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: I said, well, it was, he was listening to something online.
[01:31:55.720 --> 01:31:56.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it was.
[01:31:56.520 --> 01:31:59.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was either streaming it or whatever, but it was through a computer.
[01:32:00.500 --> 01:32:01.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: So he was amazed.
[01:32:01.720 --> 01:32:04.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: And he said, yeah, it is Bach's third Brandenburg concerto.
[01:32:04.740 --> 01:32:05.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: And he said, that's incredible.
[01:32:06.300 --> 01:32:08.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: Then you said, is it conducted by this particular person?
[01:32:08.920 --> 01:32:13.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: I should, yeah, by the Academy of St. Martin's in the Fields or something.
[01:32:15.500 --> 01:32:17.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: And so he said, well, that's amazing.
[01:32:17.660 --> 01:32:19.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: He said, you must be a musician.
[01:32:19.360 --> 01:32:21.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I said, no, I'm not.
[01:32:21.580 --> 01:32:24.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: He said, well, you must have studied music in some way.
[01:32:24.620 --> 01:32:26.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I said, no, no, I never did.
[01:32:26.980 --> 01:32:27.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: I never studied music.
[01:32:28.460 --> 01:32:30.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: And he said, well, how did you know that?
[01:32:31.780 --> 01:32:33.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I just looked at him.
[01:32:33.080 --> 01:32:33.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't really have an answer.
[01:32:33.840 --> 01:32:35.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I said, I don't know.
[01:32:36.340 --> 01:32:39.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: And so he just paused and he stared at me for a few seconds.
[01:32:39.120 --> 01:32:42.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: And he said, okay, I'm going to close the door now.
[01:32:43.460 --> 01:32:45.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: He just closed the door right in my face.
[01:32:45.780 --> 01:32:47.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've heard this story before.
[01:32:47.240 --> 01:32:49.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: I remember the door being closed in your face.
[01:32:49.580 --> 01:32:51.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that door never opened again, did it?
[01:32:51.920 --> 01:32:54.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, I don't think I've ever said anything to him ever again.
[01:32:54.620 --> 01:32:54.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[01:32:57.080 --> 01:32:59.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that is something.
[01:32:59.380 --> 01:33:01.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah, you're talking about shows.
[01:33:01.360 --> 01:33:06.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: I remember on WKXR, The Listening Room with Robert Sherman was one of the great programs that I would listen to.
[01:33:07.160 --> 01:33:09.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Metropolitan Opera, Saturday afternoons.
[01:33:09.380 --> 01:33:11.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Part of my upbringing was hearing that.
[01:33:11.980 --> 01:33:16.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: So it's good to be able to go down memory lane and realize the importance of radio and all that.
[01:33:17.000 --> 01:33:17.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: What's that?
[01:33:17.940 --> 01:33:19.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: It explains a lot.
[01:33:19.140 --> 01:33:23.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: You would think that somebody with that type of upbringing would understand what bifurcate meant.
[01:33:23.600 --> 01:33:27.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that word didn't really come up much in my household.
[01:33:27.840 --> 01:33:29.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: But now I do.
[01:33:29.140 --> 01:33:29.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now I know.
[01:33:29.600 --> 01:33:31.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now I will use it incessantly.
[01:33:31.440 --> 01:33:32.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do we have a phone call, Kyle?
[01:33:35.340 --> 01:33:36.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yes.
[01:33:36.560 --> 01:33:38.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: It came in quite a while ago, but...
[01:33:38.000 --> 01:33:39.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a real dichotomy.
[01:33:39.340 --> 01:33:41.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: In our defense, we didn't ask anybody to call.
[01:33:41.980 --> 01:33:42.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: They called on their own.
[01:33:43.040 --> 01:33:47.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: So when you do that, before we ask for calls, you call it your own risk.
[01:33:47.360 --> 01:33:49.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: And being put on hold for 10 minutes is part of that risk.
[01:33:49.700 --> 01:33:50.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: So good evening.
[01:33:50.240 --> 01:33:51.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:33:51.220 --> 01:33:51.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead.
[01:33:54.320 --> 01:33:55.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Is anyone there?
[01:33:55.720 --> 01:33:56.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: On the phone?
[01:33:57.620 --> 01:34:00.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: Is this some kind of alien creature that speaks in high-pitched tones?
[01:34:01.420 --> 01:34:02.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Apparently it is.
[01:34:03.420 --> 01:34:04.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's nobody there, Kyle.
[01:34:05.040 --> 01:34:05.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's nobody there.
[01:34:05.720 --> 01:34:06.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Get a better call.
[01:34:06.640 --> 01:34:07.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Get a better call.
[01:34:07.500 --> 01:34:08.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe ask you about the phone number.
[01:34:09.680 --> 01:34:12.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: 802-321-4225.
[01:34:12.360 --> 01:34:14.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's 802-321-HACK.
[01:34:15.460 --> 01:34:18.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: Call us and speak to the world.
[01:34:18.980 --> 01:34:19.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead, Gila.
[01:34:20.020 --> 01:34:20.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: I do have a question.
[01:34:20.960 --> 01:34:21.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is actually my question.
[01:34:23.120 --> 01:34:25.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Robert Sherman, you said, hosted the Listening Room.
[01:34:25.440 --> 01:34:27.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is it the same one who wrote the music?
[01:34:29.520 --> 01:34:30.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not sure.
[01:34:30.640 --> 01:34:31.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe.
[01:34:31.340 --> 01:34:31.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, it's possible.
[01:34:32.080 --> 01:34:32.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: What music?
[01:34:32.920 --> 01:34:39.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Robert Sherman and his brother were like the go-to songwriters for the Disney Corporation for a long time.
[01:34:39.640 --> 01:34:41.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: They wrote It's a Small World After All.
[01:34:41.720 --> 01:34:43.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: They wrote all the music for Mary Poppins.
[01:34:44.460 --> 01:34:47.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: And also, they won an Oscar for Mary Poppins.
[01:34:48.180 --> 01:34:51.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: And did you know that they also wrote the music for Snoopy Come Home?
[01:34:52.120 --> 01:34:53.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: I didn't know that.
[01:34:53.360 --> 01:34:53.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now I do.
[01:34:54.000 --> 01:34:55.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm better for that.
[01:34:56.320 --> 01:34:59.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I'm taking a trip over to Wikipedia right now.
[01:34:59.340 --> 01:35:00.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Look up Robert Sherman.
[01:35:00.140 --> 01:35:01.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: But first, let's take this phone call.
[01:35:01.420 --> 01:35:01.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good evening.
[01:35:01.940 --> 01:35:02.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're on Off Look Overtime.
[01:35:02.980 --> 01:35:03.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead.
[01:35:03.800 --> 01:35:04.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, it was after me.
[01:35:05.080 --> 01:35:05.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: He picked up.
[01:35:05.840 --> 01:35:07.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, you got impatient with us?
[01:35:08.120 --> 01:35:09.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Is that what happened this week?
[01:35:09.620 --> 01:35:09.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[01:35:12.180 --> 01:35:16.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Alex was talking about the scam calls he got or the bills and stuff.
[01:35:17.500 --> 01:35:19.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: I am on the do not call list.
[01:35:20.060 --> 01:35:21.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, remember the do not call list?
[01:35:21.860 --> 01:35:23.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're on everyone's do not call list.
[01:35:24.980 --> 01:35:25.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's true.
[01:35:25.840 --> 01:35:26.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, I wasn't.
[01:35:29.680 --> 01:35:37.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now, the people still call my cell phone and they, you know, of course, because they're calling from India.
[01:35:37.660 --> 01:35:43.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: They say, well, would you like, oh, well, this is from the car warranty or the auto service?
[01:35:43.260 --> 01:35:44.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, it's that scam.
[01:35:44.560 --> 01:35:47.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, of course, it's an Indian accent.
[01:35:47.540 --> 01:35:49.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: And of course, they, you know, do the one.
[01:35:49.640 --> 01:35:51.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, this is Medicare.
[01:35:52.060 --> 01:35:53.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: We should give you benefits.
[01:35:53.480 --> 01:35:54.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello, I'm not 65.
[01:35:58.000 --> 01:35:58.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do go on.
[01:35:59.080 --> 01:35:59.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go on.
[01:35:59.680 --> 01:36:01.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, we're captivated.
[01:36:02.360 --> 01:36:04.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, I'm dancing a basketball as I'm talking to you.
[01:36:06.020 --> 01:36:06.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[01:36:06.880 --> 01:36:10.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, yeah, they do that.
[01:36:10.720 --> 01:36:12.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: And Alex wanted to give out the phone number.
[01:36:12.980 --> 01:36:14.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: Maybe we should do this at HOPE.
[01:36:14.400 --> 01:36:20.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: We should do this at HOPE where we call scam, you know, numbers and try and like, I don't know, social engineer them or something.
[01:36:22.000 --> 01:36:25.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that sounds like a ton of fun, especially with you leading the brigade.
[01:36:27.840 --> 01:36:29.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: You got something to say to that, Alex?
[01:36:30.660 --> 01:36:32.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, look, I can give out the phone number.
[01:36:33.000 --> 01:36:37.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: I know you're dying to call them, Rebel, but I think we should hold back.
[01:36:37.120 --> 01:36:43.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: We'll do this together as a group later on in the call.
[01:36:43.420 --> 01:36:44.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're just going to have to be patient.
[01:36:45.560 --> 01:36:46.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: Later on in...
[01:36:46.860 --> 01:36:48.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, later on in the show?
[01:36:48.780 --> 01:36:49.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Later on.
[01:36:49.280 --> 01:36:52.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, there's not too much later on left, so it'll be in the next few minutes.
[01:36:52.420 --> 01:36:52.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[01:36:53.140 --> 01:36:53.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:36:53.640 --> 01:36:53.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[01:36:54.180 --> 01:36:54.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[01:36:55.160 --> 01:36:59.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: We've been spending a lot of time yammering about our childhoods and stuff, but it's, you know, it's therapeutic.
[01:36:59.620 --> 01:37:05.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: I remember when, you know, I remember when, let's see, I remember a lot of stuff, but never mind not.
[01:37:06.200 --> 01:37:06.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[01:37:06.760 --> 01:37:08.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, they're just going to have to leave us hanging on that one.
[01:37:09.180 --> 01:37:09.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[01:37:11.320 --> 01:37:11.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[01:37:12.480 --> 01:37:13.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: What else did I want to say?
[01:37:13.840 --> 01:37:15.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: I want to have links.
[01:37:15.200 --> 01:37:17.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: I still want, I still need IT services.
[01:37:17.900 --> 01:37:22.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: I still need IT services.
[01:37:22.920 --> 01:37:31.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Maybe somebody at HOPE can, I have the 2600 meetings on Friday, so I will take somebody to dinner who puts links on my computer, bringing my laptop.
[01:37:32.300 --> 01:37:40.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Somebody who puts links, L-Y-N-X, that program on your laptop, you'll take them to dinner at a place, a place of their choosing with no price cap.
[01:37:40.920 --> 01:37:41.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[01:37:41.740 --> 01:37:42.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[01:37:42.440 --> 01:37:43.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: You heard it here.
[01:37:44.640 --> 01:37:46.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: I guess, Alex, go ahead.
[01:37:47.620 --> 01:38:00.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: A propos of both Rebels' question last week and one of our colleagues in London, as you know, I was in London last week during our sessions and whatnot.
[01:38:00.400 --> 01:38:11.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: I did go into the local boots on the King's Road and buy some cheap deodorant, which is also known as Lynx, L-Y-N-X, same one.
[01:38:11.680 --> 01:38:12.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, there you have it.
[01:38:12.640 --> 01:38:22.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Are you trying to get a free dinner from Rebel by handing him a deodorant thing from England?
[01:38:23.180 --> 01:38:23.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:38:23.760 --> 01:38:24.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it was weird.
[01:38:24.420 --> 01:38:27.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, so there's this cheap deodorant you can buy called Lynx.
[01:38:27.420 --> 01:38:27.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I know that.
[01:38:28.040 --> 01:38:28.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[01:38:28.260 --> 01:38:29.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's in the UK.
[01:38:29.720 --> 01:38:33.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: And for some reason, the scent that I got, I just thought it was funny.
[01:38:33.360 --> 01:38:34.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's called Africa.
[01:38:34.620 --> 01:38:38.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like an entire continent underneath your arm.
[01:38:38.940 --> 01:38:40.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what it's about.
[01:38:40.480 --> 01:38:42.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: But it smells quite nice.
[01:38:43.680 --> 01:38:44.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well...
[01:38:44.160 --> 01:38:46.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, what I'm saying is...
[01:38:46.600 --> 01:38:47.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Say it quickly.
[01:38:48.880 --> 01:38:49.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[01:38:49.900 --> 01:38:54.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: The Lynx is the browser that I want to put on my computer, on my desktop, preferably.
[01:38:54.740 --> 01:38:55.000]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[01:38:55.180 --> 01:38:55.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think we know that.
[01:38:56.020 --> 01:39:00.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm going to be bringing my laptop to HOPE, I mean to the 2600 meeting on Friday.
[01:39:02.200 --> 01:39:20.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's like somebody at the 2600 meeting a while ago explained how Lynx was put on and he did it on his laptop and he, but he did it so fast and he explained it so fast that I couldn't even like, you know, like, and he did it and it's like, oh, well, you got to go to this website.
[01:39:20.780 --> 01:39:22.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't, this website doesn't recognize this browser.
[01:39:22.720 --> 01:39:23.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[01:39:23.060 --> 01:39:27.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, people, people talk very fast sometimes and we apologize for that.
[01:39:27.460 --> 01:39:32.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Might I ask what operating system your laptop is running to help the person that will help you?
[01:39:32.720 --> 01:39:37.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I mean, no, my desktop and laptop, I use Google Chrome, but I still want to use Google Chrome.
[01:39:38.020 --> 01:39:38.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[01:39:38.280 --> 01:39:40.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: Google Chrome is a browser, not an operating system.
[01:39:41.320 --> 01:39:43.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, no, I use Windows 10.
[01:39:43.320 --> 01:39:44.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Ah, okay.
[01:39:44.200 --> 01:39:47.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: So you want Lynx for Windows 10 installed on your laptop.
[01:39:48.420 --> 01:39:51.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Will this happen on Friday at the 2600 meeting?
[01:39:51.360 --> 01:39:54.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: You'll have to stay tuned and hear us in three weeks to find out.
[01:39:55.240 --> 01:39:59.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: And yeah, I know that Lynx is a browser that I also want to use.
[01:39:59.640 --> 01:40:07.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, I'll still use Google Chrome, but because we can, you know, you go on YouTube videos and listen to the talk on YouTube, you can't do that with Lynx.
[01:40:08.900 --> 01:40:17.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: But links to like, you know, go search text-based things, like look at your cell phone bill or look at your online banking system.
[01:40:17.440 --> 01:40:18.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly, yes.
[01:40:19.800 --> 01:40:21.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Not to look at pictures and videos.
[01:40:21.660 --> 01:40:22.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, not to do that.
[01:40:22.680 --> 01:40:23.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's for text-based.
[01:40:23.820 --> 01:40:31.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: But I want to make my computer just like an old school, like, you know, like text-based, like, like, just like, like a, a VT300 deck terminal.
[01:40:32.980 --> 01:40:35.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not an unreasonable request, I don't think.
[01:40:35.740 --> 01:40:35.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right?
[01:40:36.200 --> 01:40:36.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's just...
[01:40:36.800 --> 01:40:38.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's not enough terminals.
[01:40:40.560 --> 01:40:41.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead, Alex.
[01:40:42.340 --> 01:40:47.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, why don't you just install Linux on your machine and work out of the terminal?
[01:40:47.180 --> 01:40:47.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: Here we go.
[01:40:47.820 --> 01:40:49.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because I don't want to, I want to keep Windows.
[01:40:50.100 --> 01:40:51.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't want to use Linux.
[01:40:51.520 --> 01:40:53.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because then I won't be able to watch videos and do all this.
[01:40:53.900 --> 01:40:54.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: I want to...
[01:40:54.480 --> 01:40:55.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can have both, you know.
[01:40:56.000 --> 01:40:58.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can have Windows and Linux called dual booting.
[01:40:59.740 --> 01:41:01.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Dual booting, or you can run...
[01:41:02.240 --> 01:41:07.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, it's hard for me to get used to a whole new operating system and new all that, you know what I mean?
[01:41:08.800 --> 01:41:12.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you know, sometimes just taking the dive is all you need.
[01:41:14.980 --> 01:41:15.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: Right.
[01:41:15.540 --> 01:41:16.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: But I mean, why can't...
[01:41:16.920 --> 01:41:18.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, I don't need Linux.
[01:41:18.360 --> 01:41:20.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: I could just use the browser links.
[01:41:20.400 --> 01:41:21.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that's all I really want.
[01:41:21.640 --> 01:41:22.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: You do need Linux.
[01:41:22.300 --> 01:41:23.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: You just don't know you need the Linux yet.
[01:41:24.540 --> 01:41:26.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've heard this said so many times.
[01:41:27.000 --> 01:41:28.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: But come to HOPE.
[01:41:29.040 --> 01:41:30.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we will convince you.
[01:41:31.480 --> 01:41:32.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I...
[01:41:32.160 --> 01:41:33.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, of course we'll be at HOPE.
[01:41:35.900 --> 01:41:37.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you'll be happy about it, too.
[01:41:37.280 --> 01:41:37.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: You will be.
[01:41:38.180 --> 01:41:38.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[01:41:38.580 --> 01:41:42.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, of course, if anybody wants to know about Queens, we're talking about Queens.
[01:41:42.580 --> 01:41:44.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, you came from Queens, too, didn't you?
[01:41:44.680 --> 01:41:46.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, you grew up in Jamaica.
[01:41:46.360 --> 01:41:47.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: I grew up in Jackson Heights.
[01:41:47.820 --> 01:41:48.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Close call.
[01:41:48.620 --> 01:41:50.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: But yes, fairly nearby.
[01:41:54.240 --> 01:42:11.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: I will look at the information booth, I hope, where I can tell people, like, you know, how to get to certain places and where the places are at that you could buy the alternative clothing and where the, you know, where the, you know...
[01:42:11.400 --> 01:42:17.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, people coming to HOPE have the chance of being directed by Rebel to go certain places.
[01:42:17.380 --> 01:42:18.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's an opportunity.
[01:42:18.500 --> 01:42:19.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: It does not come along every day.
[01:42:21.900 --> 01:42:22.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[01:42:22.740 --> 01:42:24.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Rebel, thank you so much for calling.
[01:42:24.500 --> 01:42:26.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: I look forward to seeing you at HOPE.
[01:42:26.820 --> 01:42:28.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: And all the best.
[01:42:29.440 --> 01:42:31.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, you're going to be on next week, though.
[01:42:31.220 --> 01:42:32.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, we're not going to be on next week.
[01:42:32.520 --> 01:42:34.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: We said many times that we are not on for three weeks.
[01:42:34.920 --> 01:42:37.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: We are going to be on again on July the 24th.
[01:42:37.800 --> 01:42:40.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: We need time to put all this together.
[01:42:40.520 --> 01:42:42.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I know that...
[01:42:42.860 --> 01:42:43.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: What the hell is that?
[01:42:44.740 --> 01:42:45.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sorry, I was laughing at something.
[01:42:46.060 --> 01:42:46.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: I apologize.
[01:42:46.660 --> 01:42:47.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Ah, okay.
[01:42:48.900 --> 01:42:50.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: I thought something blew up.
[01:42:51.500 --> 01:42:52.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's more fireworks.
[01:42:52.700 --> 01:42:52.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:42:53.160 --> 01:42:55.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: The Wednesday before HOPE is always...
[01:42:55.320 --> 01:42:58.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: There have been a couple of years where I've forgotten that I'm on the air.
[01:42:58.840 --> 01:43:00.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I've just been running around so much.
[01:43:01.000 --> 01:43:02.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's like, oh, my God, it's 9:30.
[01:43:02.660 --> 01:43:04.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I totally forgot to be on the air.
[01:43:05.060 --> 01:43:07.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: And other times, it's just a big inconvenience.
[01:43:07.480 --> 01:43:12.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: And also, you know, afterwards, we're still recovering sometimes, you know, sleeping for several days straight.
[01:43:12.880 --> 01:43:17.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: So it's best for us to just, you know, we said all we can say.
[01:43:17.380 --> 01:43:18.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: And now we have to do this thing.
[01:43:19.100 --> 01:43:21.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we'll be back on the 24th.
[01:43:21.440 --> 01:43:21.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, right.
[01:43:22.120 --> 01:43:23.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: And you'll be at the meeting, though, this week.
[01:43:23.860 --> 01:43:25.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: I wasn't planning on it.
[01:43:26.680 --> 01:43:27.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, okay.
[01:43:27.480 --> 01:43:27.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[01:43:28.580 --> 01:43:28.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[01:43:29.820 --> 01:43:30.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'll be there.
[01:43:30.800 --> 01:43:31.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, Rob will be there.
[01:43:31.940 --> 01:43:34.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: So he'll be able to be a helpful face.
[01:43:34.180 --> 01:43:34.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll be there.
[01:43:34.840 --> 01:43:35.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: And Gila will be there.
[01:43:35.940 --> 01:43:36.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: So there.
[01:43:37.020 --> 01:43:37.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:43:37.480 --> 01:43:37.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[01:43:38.460 --> 01:43:39.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: And maybe Alex will be there, too.
[01:43:40.060 --> 01:43:40.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Who knows?
[01:43:42.180 --> 01:43:42.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe.
[01:43:42.880 --> 01:43:43.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, maybe.
[01:43:43.460 --> 01:43:43.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe.
[01:43:44.700 --> 01:43:45.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because I'm, you know.
[01:43:45.620 --> 01:43:46.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, maybe.
[01:43:46.200 --> 01:43:46.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe.
[01:43:46.780 --> 01:43:47.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Who knows?
[01:43:48.620 --> 01:43:49.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: Listen, we got to go.
[01:43:49.980 --> 01:43:50.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you for calling.
[01:43:50.840 --> 01:43:51.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[01:43:51.200 --> 01:43:52.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: We'll talk to you next time.
[01:43:53.220 --> 01:43:54.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: By the way, I did visit Wikipedia.
[01:43:55.080 --> 01:43:56.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: I did look up Robert Sherman.
[01:43:56.440 --> 01:44:03.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: He basically was a music critic and a radio broadcaster.
[01:44:03.940 --> 01:44:05.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Died last year.
[01:44:05.340 --> 01:44:06.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Died a year ago.
[01:44:06.760 --> 01:44:11.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: And he had retired from WQXR one month before he died.
[01:44:11.680 --> 01:44:14.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: So that tells you something about how important radio is to people.
[01:44:14.980 --> 01:44:16.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: He was 90 years old.
[01:44:17.320 --> 01:44:21.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: And yeah, he's just one of the many voices that I remember from back then.
[01:44:21.620 --> 01:44:23.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: So that was something special.
[01:44:24.520 --> 01:44:25.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: So not the same Robert Sherman.
[01:44:26.080 --> 01:44:26.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Not the same one.
[01:44:26.960 --> 01:44:29.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Unless they really hid that part of what he did.
[01:44:29.540 --> 01:44:31.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: But Robert Sherman sounds like a pretty common name.
[01:44:31.860 --> 01:44:34.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I imagine there are many Robert Shermans out there.
[01:44:34.260 --> 01:44:36.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Wouldn't be surprised there was a Robert Sherman listening to us right now.
[01:44:37.760 --> 01:44:39.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: The songwriting one died in 2012.
[01:44:40.740 --> 01:44:40.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[01:44:41.240 --> 01:44:41.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[01:44:41.860 --> 01:44:45.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, the music critic, broadcaster, got a few more years.
[01:44:46.420 --> 01:44:47.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: We have another phone call.
[01:44:47.560 --> 01:44:47.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good evening.
[01:44:48.020 --> 01:44:48.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:44:50.040 --> 01:44:50.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, it's Bobcat.
[01:44:50.960 --> 01:44:51.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Can you hear me fine?
[01:44:51.700 --> 01:44:52.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: We hear you just fine.
[01:44:52.640 --> 01:44:52.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[01:44:53.820 --> 01:44:54.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because you sound terrible.
[01:44:55.060 --> 01:44:57.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me fix a few things you said previously.
[01:44:58.160 --> 01:45:00.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: Romper Room was not Sonny Fox.
[01:45:00.760 --> 01:45:01.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: That was Wonderama.
[01:45:02.300 --> 01:45:04.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Later, Bob McAllister was on Wonderama.
[01:45:04.740 --> 01:45:05.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wonderama.
[01:45:05.320 --> 01:45:06.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: That was the one I was trying to remember.
[01:45:07.600 --> 01:45:20.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Romper Room had the girl who had, or the woman, excuse me, who got pregnant and was given thalidomide, and she sued to get an abortion, and she couldn't get an abortion.
[01:45:20.380 --> 01:45:22.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: And she finally found out she can get an abortion in Colorado.
[01:45:22.800 --> 01:45:23.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, this is on Romper Room?
[01:45:23.980 --> 01:45:24.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: In Colorado.
[01:45:24.640 --> 01:45:25.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: All this happened on Romper Room?
[01:45:26.220 --> 01:45:27.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: I missed that episode.
[01:45:27.760 --> 01:45:28.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: What the hell?
[01:45:28.360 --> 01:45:29.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, there's more.
[01:45:29.380 --> 01:45:30.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: I got more.
[01:45:30.180 --> 01:45:30.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's get through it.
[01:45:31.220 --> 01:45:36.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: And so finally, Colorado said, no, you can't come here and get an abortion.
[01:45:36.080 --> 01:45:37.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: She had to, like, go to Sweden.
[01:45:37.680 --> 01:45:39.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: So eventually she did get an abortion.
[01:45:40.300 --> 01:45:46.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: The best way to sign off a TV station is with the high flight video.
[01:45:46.200 --> 01:45:49.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: And perhaps Kyle can cue that up so you can use it as an outro.
[01:45:51.960 --> 01:46:00.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: TLC, back when it was the Learning Channel, had a hacker documentary with Woz, Kevin, and Captain Crunch.
[01:46:01.840 --> 01:46:03.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: And kind of interesting documentary.
[01:46:03.980 --> 01:46:06.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: But on their website, they had a question.
[01:46:06.380 --> 01:46:08.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is it possible to be an ethical hacker?
[01:46:08.340 --> 01:46:13.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: And when I saw it, it had 2,000 yes votes and 2,500 no votes.
[01:46:13.400 --> 01:46:17.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: And by the time we got through with it, it was 2.5 million yes votes.
[01:46:18.560 --> 01:46:20.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: By the time you got through with it.
[01:46:20.060 --> 01:46:20.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[01:46:21.160 --> 01:46:21.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Wow.
[01:46:21.680 --> 01:46:22.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: We can write a script.
[01:46:22.800 --> 01:46:24.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: What was the name of the documentary?
[01:46:26.220 --> 01:46:26.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hackers.
[01:46:27.480 --> 01:46:29.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Woz, Kevin, and Crunch.
[01:46:29.580 --> 01:46:30.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: You'll find it.
[01:46:31.800 --> 01:46:41.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you want to do some of your own personal backup, keep an eye on Linus Tech Tips and Louis Rothman.
[01:46:41.160 --> 01:46:48.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're both working on open-source things for sharing video and doing storage.
[01:46:49.300 --> 01:46:49.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[01:46:50.780 --> 01:46:53.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've got a couple more.
[01:46:53.140 --> 01:46:58.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I could help Rebel with his links thing, but I don't think I want to do that.
[01:46:59.320 --> 01:47:06.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: And as far as January 6th, Trump never said, go trash the Capitol, just so you know.
[01:47:06.440 --> 01:47:10.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you can show me the video of that, I'll give you a million dollars.
[01:47:10.200 --> 01:47:13.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, immunity, you covered earlier.
[01:47:14.140 --> 01:47:16.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Obama killed three U.S. citizens, and the ACLU sued.
[01:47:20.540 --> 01:47:22.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's Al-Awlaki v. Panetta.
[01:47:23.580 --> 01:47:24.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can look it up.
[01:47:26.180 --> 01:47:30.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: The D.C. District Court decided that apparently no one had standing.
[01:47:30.820 --> 01:47:34.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't a bill of attainder for all these reasons.
[01:47:34.040 --> 01:47:38.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: So you don't really need immunity to kill American citizens.
[01:47:38.660 --> 01:47:49.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: And if you'll recall, Ron Paul did a filibuster in the Senate just asking the White House, do you have the right to kill Americans with a drone on American soil?
[01:47:57.040 --> 01:47:58.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, that's an easy question.
[01:47:58.860 --> 01:48:00.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, I don't have a right to kill American citizens.
[01:48:01.380 --> 01:48:07.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: But Obama had the kill list of people to kill, and there were American citizens on that.
[01:48:07.340 --> 01:48:10.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right, but there were American citizens overseas.
[01:48:10.480 --> 01:48:13.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: What I think people are talking about now is American citizens right here at home.
[01:48:14.660 --> 01:48:16.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's never been there.
[01:48:16.760 --> 01:48:18.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you go overseas, can I kill you?
[01:48:18.820 --> 01:48:19.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
[01:48:20.140 --> 01:48:26.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you committed a crime in the United States, and I kill you without a trial, that's a lynching.
[01:48:26.000 --> 01:48:35.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you go overseas, and you are a political opponent of the United States, which Al-Awlaki was, can you kill him?
[01:48:35.540 --> 01:48:36.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: He's a political opponent.
[01:48:36.880 --> 01:48:37.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, he's a terrorist.
[01:48:38.500 --> 01:48:40.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: He didn't commit any acts of terror.
[01:48:40.380 --> 01:48:42.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: He was just a part of the organization.
[01:48:42.660 --> 01:48:43.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: But they killed him.
[01:48:44.000 --> 01:48:45.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: They killed his 16-year-old son.
[01:48:46.340 --> 01:48:54.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I don't think you're going to struggle to find instances where, you know, the United States has abused its power and done horrible things.
[01:48:54.820 --> 01:48:59.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: But having the Supreme Court basically back you up for that, that's kind of unique.
[01:48:59.440 --> 01:49:00.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's different.
[01:49:02.020 --> 01:49:04.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: The same thing happened already.
[01:49:06.460 --> 01:49:09.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Three American citizens were killed by Obama.
[01:49:09.880 --> 01:49:11.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I'm not disputing that.
[01:49:11.600 --> 01:49:12.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not disputing that.
[01:49:12.660 --> 01:49:12.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: Was he prosecuted?
[01:49:12.860 --> 01:49:15.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you want him to be prosecuted?
[01:49:16.120 --> 01:49:16.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Should he be prosecuted?
[01:49:17.100 --> 01:49:18.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: If he did something illegal, absolutely.
[01:49:19.460 --> 01:49:19.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[01:49:20.240 --> 01:49:23.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Killing American citizens without a trial, is that not illegal?
[01:49:23.800 --> 01:49:26.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Listen, this is not something that's new.
[01:49:26.640 --> 01:49:29.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is not something that's confined to one president.
[01:49:29.820 --> 01:49:36.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're talking about, you know, specifically we were talking about assassinating political rivals, i.e.
[01:49:36.460 --> 01:49:38.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: the person running against you.
[01:49:38.160 --> 01:49:44.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: And at least one member of the Supreme Court says that a president would be immune if he did that.
[01:49:44.860 --> 01:49:54.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that is what concerns me, that a Supreme Court justice believes that it's okay in the eyes of what they put out to do this without any repercussions.
[01:49:55.100 --> 01:49:56.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: One Supreme Court justice believes that.
[01:49:57.040 --> 01:50:00.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and I have a question for Alex, because this is a...
[01:50:00.960 --> 01:50:15.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, remember, I did not vote for Trump twice, but I'm going to save Joe Biden, because it's probably too late to pull him off the ballot on enough states that he would not be able to get a majority in the Electoral College.
[01:50:15.080 --> 01:50:22.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: The 22nd Amendment says no person shall be elected more than twice to the presidency.
[01:50:22.780 --> 01:50:30.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Joe Biden could choose Barack Obama as his vice presidential candidate, running mate.
[01:50:30.660 --> 01:50:38.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: He can select him immediately as special advisor to the president, so that the senility thing won't seem to be a problem.
[01:50:39.220 --> 01:50:51.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Joe Biden then gets elected, gets inaugurated, immediately resigns, hands the baton to Obama, who then gives his inaugural speech on the same podium.
[01:50:51.820 --> 01:50:53.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: Alex, is that possible?
[01:50:54.540 --> 01:50:57.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's such an interesting scenario.
[01:50:57.900 --> 01:51:04.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: I guess it is possible it could result in a challenge as to what the meaning of the word elected is.
[01:51:04.060 --> 01:51:05.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Because he actually wasn't elected.
[01:51:05.680 --> 01:51:08.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you know, I guarantee you that he was elected.
[01:51:08.520 --> 01:51:09.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: He was elected twice, yes.
[01:51:10.180 --> 01:51:12.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: But he's a vice president now.
[01:51:14.840 --> 01:51:16.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: Doesn't that count as being elected?
[01:51:16.980 --> 01:51:20.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, it doesn't, because you can be a vice president and be elected president twice.
[01:51:20.360 --> 01:51:20.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Read the amendment.
[01:51:20.980 --> 01:51:27.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, no, you might actually have something, but I guarantee you that would not fly amongst the populace.
[01:51:27.880 --> 01:51:32.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm an Obama supporter for the most part, but I would not like that at all.
[01:51:32.940 --> 01:51:37.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're already trying to get Biden not on the ticket this fall.
[01:51:37.240 --> 01:51:38.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody is.
[01:51:38.560 --> 01:51:39.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're all working behind the scenes.
[01:51:40.180 --> 01:51:44.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: All the primary voters have voted for him to be the candidate.
[01:51:44.240 --> 01:51:47.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to overrule democracy with this?
[01:51:48.040 --> 01:51:48.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I think that's stupid.
[01:51:49.100 --> 01:51:49.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Instead of doing a little play?
[01:51:50.160 --> 01:51:51.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think that's stupid.
[01:51:51.220 --> 01:51:52.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think people are panicking.
[01:51:53.060 --> 01:51:54.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Democrats panic all the time.
[01:51:54.640 --> 01:51:56.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: They always aren't sure of themselves.
[01:51:56.240 --> 01:52:03.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: And this is another example of that where they think, oh, you know, because the guy stumbled and was tired and didn't express himself clearly.
[01:52:03.220 --> 01:52:05.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: But even though he's done that, he's not...
[01:52:05.100 --> 01:52:08.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Look, senile people cannot do the things that he does, all right?
[01:52:08.380 --> 01:52:09.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: He's traveled around the world.
[01:52:09.900 --> 01:52:10.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: He's met with all kinds of people.
[01:52:11.100 --> 01:52:11.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: He has given speeches.
[01:52:12.640 --> 01:52:13.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, even...
[01:52:13.560 --> 01:52:14.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: You sound like Joe Biden.
[01:52:14.940 --> 01:52:15.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: He's senile.
[01:52:15.880 --> 01:52:20.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: I sound like somebody who is recognizing what's in front of me.
[01:52:20.520 --> 01:52:26.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: How is somebody who's senile able to read something practically flawlessly, you know, and with passion?
[01:52:26.600 --> 01:52:27.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's not a senile person.
[01:52:28.360 --> 01:52:29.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: He's old.
[01:52:29.220 --> 01:52:29.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll give you that.
[01:52:30.620 --> 01:52:33.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: He keeps reading the comments in between the stuff.
[01:52:33.960 --> 01:52:36.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, pause for applause.
[01:52:36.300 --> 01:52:37.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: He'll stop and read that.
[01:52:39.100 --> 01:52:42.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: If that happened, maybe it happened once and maybe he was joking.
[01:52:42.320 --> 01:52:42.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: Who knows?
[01:52:43.600 --> 01:52:44.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've seen...
[01:52:44.160 --> 01:52:44.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't joking.
[01:52:44.380 --> 01:52:45.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: It happens all the time.
[01:52:45.880 --> 01:52:46.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, what...
[01:52:46.700 --> 01:52:47.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Watch him.
[01:52:47.780 --> 01:52:48.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Watch him.
[01:52:48.200 --> 01:52:49.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: I do watch him.
[01:52:49.160 --> 01:52:49.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've seen him.
[01:52:49.800 --> 01:52:56.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm impressed by what I see sometimes and dismayed by what I see other times, which is a pretty good track record for the most part.
[01:52:56.560 --> 01:52:59.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Whereas, you know, with the other guy, I see what he says.
[01:52:59.460 --> 01:53:01.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: He says it clearly and it makes me sick.
[01:53:01.920 --> 01:53:09.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: So even if Biden is barely stringing a sentence together and is completely incomprehensible, he still wins as far as I'm concerned.
[01:53:10.360 --> 01:53:15.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: If Jill Biden brought out an urn of Joe's ashes, you would vote for that?
[01:53:15.720 --> 01:53:16.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: I would.
[01:53:17.280 --> 01:53:18.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Listen, I would.
[01:53:18.500 --> 01:53:19.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: I would vote for...
[01:53:19.960 --> 01:53:20.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody can be clear about it.
[01:53:20.540 --> 01:53:22.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: I would vote for roadkill over Trump.
[01:53:22.420 --> 01:53:23.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, anything.
[01:53:23.540 --> 01:53:23.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Seriously.
[01:53:24.500 --> 01:53:26.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: But here's the thing that people seem to be forgetting.
[01:53:26.580 --> 01:53:29.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: There is a perfectly capable vice president in this campaign.
[01:53:30.000 --> 01:53:32.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: And everybody hates her, including Democrats.
[01:53:32.320 --> 01:53:33.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I don't get that.
[01:53:33.500 --> 01:53:36.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think that's a real problem with us, not with them.
[01:53:36.820 --> 01:53:39.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, she states her...
[01:53:39.640 --> 01:53:42.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so you want Biden to be elected and die so that Kamala Harris...
[01:53:42.580 --> 01:53:43.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: I didn't say that.
[01:53:43.480 --> 01:53:46.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: I just said that if people are worried about the ticket, they have a strong...
[01:53:46.900 --> 01:53:48.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: Look, they're saying, let's get new blood in there.
[01:53:48.780 --> 01:53:49.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you got new blood in there.
[01:53:49.860 --> 01:53:50.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: You got somebody who's younger.
[01:53:51.040 --> 01:53:54.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: You got somebody who's vibrant and who's able to express themselves clearly.
[01:53:54.300 --> 01:53:56.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: You just don't like her for some reason.
[01:53:56.420 --> 01:53:57.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think that's the problem.
[01:53:58.980 --> 01:54:02.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, so she's going to have to invoke the 25th Amendment.
[01:54:02.820 --> 01:54:05.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I don't think she has to do that.
[01:54:06.520 --> 01:54:08.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, she will, unless Biden dies.
[01:54:09.400 --> 01:54:11.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: But why would she do that in the first place?
[01:54:15.240 --> 01:54:18.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: You just watch Biden, for God's sake.
[01:54:18.520 --> 01:54:20.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: I do watch Biden quite a bit.
[01:54:20.860 --> 01:54:23.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, I just don't buy into the narrative.
[01:54:26.180 --> 01:54:28.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's ignore what Trump said during the debate.
[01:54:28.640 --> 01:54:32.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Biden said no American soldiers had died on his watch.
[01:54:32.300 --> 01:54:36.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Look, he got some things wrong, but Trump lied so many times.
[01:54:37.020 --> 01:54:38.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: You don't get that wrong.
[01:54:38.480 --> 01:54:40.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Trump lied so many times.
[01:54:40.380 --> 01:54:42.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: He got so many things wrong.
[01:54:42.260 --> 01:54:43.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: He meant in new conflicts, I think.
[01:54:43.760 --> 01:54:46.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: And there is, you know, there is just no comparison.
[01:54:46.220 --> 01:54:47.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's let Rob say something.
[01:54:47.300 --> 01:54:47.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead, Rob.
[01:54:48.940 --> 01:54:54.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bobcat, I want to directly address something that you had said, something very important.
[01:54:54.140 --> 01:55:03.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that is that the documentary from TLC you were talking about was called Hacker's Computer Outlaws, which featured Kevin Mitnick, John Draper, and Steve Wozniak.
[01:55:03.720 --> 01:55:04.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it was made in 2001.
[01:55:04.940 --> 01:55:06.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you can still find it out there to watch.
[01:55:07.820 --> 01:55:08.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.
[01:55:09.860 --> 01:55:14.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can go to the Wayback Machine and find the poll and see how we manipulated it.
[01:55:17.740 --> 01:55:18.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: That would be awesome.
[01:55:20.420 --> 01:55:22.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right, listen, we're going to move on to another phone call.
[01:55:22.260 --> 01:55:25.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks for all the points and making us think and all that.
[01:55:25.580 --> 01:55:25.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[01:55:26.140 --> 01:55:27.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: End your show with High Flight, really.
[01:55:28.560 --> 01:55:29.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's amazing.
[01:55:29.700 --> 01:55:31.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, I don't know what that is, but I'll ask Kyle.
[01:55:31.480 --> 01:55:33.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll defer to him, and maybe we'll do something like that.
[01:55:34.680 --> 01:55:37.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Alex, I think if you're going to have a moment, this is it.
[01:55:37.720 --> 01:55:40.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: So tell us what you want to do and how you're going to do it.
[01:55:41.440 --> 01:55:43.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, should we give these guys a ring?
[01:55:43.120 --> 01:55:44.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: We can try.
[01:55:45.120 --> 01:55:45.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's see.
[01:55:47.480 --> 01:55:48.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: You've got to explain what you're doing.
[01:55:49.480 --> 01:56:13.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so I got what was obviously a nonsense, bogus email that's usually the precursor to something called a remote access scam, where an attacker will have you call a phone number thinking that you overpaid for an invoice for something that was charged to you that was a high-value item that you shouldn't have been charged for.
[01:56:13.420 --> 01:56:16.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: So you call up to try to get that charge removed.
[01:56:17.000 --> 01:56:25.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: They then say, oh, something like, we'll have to actually, well, the software's on your system, so if we're going to refund you, we're going to have to disable it.
[01:56:25.900 --> 01:56:30.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then they trick you into allowing them remote access to your machine, something like that.
[01:56:31.580 --> 01:56:39.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: So it might be fun to just call these guys up, see how they operate, and maybe string them along a little bit.
[01:56:40.300 --> 01:56:42.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: So let's give it a shot, right?
[01:56:42.480 --> 01:56:42.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Go ahead.
[01:56:44.340 --> 01:56:44.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[01:56:45.440 --> 01:56:46.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hang on a second.
[01:56:46.680 --> 01:56:47.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: I just have to...
[01:56:48.240 --> 01:56:52.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Should I try calling them with star six seven first?
[01:56:52.900 --> 01:56:53.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: What do you think?
[01:56:53.520 --> 01:56:54.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, what kind of number are you calling?
[01:56:55.080 --> 01:56:55.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's see where you go.
[01:56:56.580 --> 01:56:57.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: The 828.
[01:56:58.020 --> 01:56:59.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Not a toll-free number.
[01:57:00.580 --> 01:57:01.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, 828's not...
[01:57:01.520 --> 01:57:05.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: But not every number uses caller ID.
[01:57:06.520 --> 01:57:10.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: They might be using ANI, in which case it doesn't matter if you dial a star six seven.
[01:57:10.040 --> 01:57:11.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: So they might get you a phone number.
[01:57:11.400 --> 01:57:13.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's the important thing to convey here.
[01:57:14.700 --> 01:57:15.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[01:57:15.560 --> 01:57:17.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah, I understand that.
[01:57:17.700 --> 01:57:20.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: But if there's a chance to block it, you might as well try it.
[01:57:20.640 --> 01:57:21.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, try it.
[01:57:21.140 --> 01:57:21.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: It can't hurt.
[01:57:23.120 --> 01:57:24.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's call them up.
[01:57:25.100 --> 01:57:25.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so...
[01:57:25.820 --> 01:57:27.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is why I didn't want to do it.
[01:57:27.940 --> 01:57:29.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Because of things like this.
[01:57:29.800 --> 01:57:30.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's try it without...
[01:57:30.600 --> 01:57:31.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's not a fast busy.
[01:57:31.760 --> 01:57:32.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: What's fast about that?
[01:57:32.720 --> 01:57:33.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's a slow busy.
[01:57:33.260 --> 01:57:34.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was a slow busy.
[01:57:34.460 --> 01:57:35.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a busy signal.
[01:57:35.500 --> 01:57:43.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: For people who don't know, busy signals were for when you called somebody, and they were speaking to somebody else, so you couldn't talk to them.
[01:57:44.100 --> 01:57:44.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's what it was.
[01:57:45.720 --> 01:57:48.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's try it without caller ID.
[01:57:48.880 --> 01:57:49.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Blocked.
[01:57:49.460 --> 01:57:51.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, interesting theory here.
[01:57:51.680 --> 01:57:52.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's see what happens.
[01:57:53.720 --> 01:57:54.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's still the same.
[01:57:55.020 --> 01:57:55.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's still the one I talked to you.
[01:57:56.420 --> 01:57:57.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's it.
[01:57:57.620 --> 01:57:57.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:57:58.080 --> 01:58:00.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: Here's a theory I'd like to posit.
[01:58:00.600 --> 01:58:06.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: What if the number is always busy, and you can never call them, and that's not part of the scam?
[01:58:09.640 --> 01:58:11.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: How would that work?
[01:58:11.740 --> 01:58:15.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, what if you went to a link instead, or replied to their email, or something like that?
[01:58:15.720 --> 01:58:21.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, are you going to always call a number, or most people these days, they send texts?
[01:58:21.640 --> 01:58:29.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you were to text this person, or these people, then I think you would get some kind of response, and withdrawal from your bank account.
[01:58:29.920 --> 01:58:32.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: To cancel the subscription, call.
[01:58:33.860 --> 01:58:35.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'll give out the number.
[01:58:36.040 --> 01:58:38.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: But then you'll never get through, because everyone's going to be trying.
[01:58:38.820 --> 01:58:39.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: But that's fine.
[01:58:40.140 --> 01:58:41.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, might as well, right?
[01:58:41.160 --> 01:58:41.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Keep trying.
[01:58:41.800 --> 01:58:43.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: Try a couple more times, and then give out the number.
[01:58:43.480 --> 01:58:45.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: I just don't want you to get locked out because of our own listeners.
[01:58:46.300 --> 01:58:47.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, let's keep going.
[01:58:47.560 --> 01:58:48.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, let's see.
[01:58:49.880 --> 01:58:50.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Still busy there.
[01:58:50.960 --> 01:58:51.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Still busy.
[01:58:51.560 --> 01:58:51.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:58:52.420 --> 01:58:53.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Quite busy.
[01:58:54.000 --> 01:58:56.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: It could be a fake busy, but it probably isn't.
[01:58:57.080 --> 01:58:59.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, I mean, what would the point be?
[01:58:59.860 --> 01:59:05.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah, it's an 828 number, which apparently relates to North Carolina, one of those new...
[01:59:05.460 --> 01:59:06.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: It doesn't have to be in North Carolina.
[01:59:07.180 --> 01:59:09.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: As we all know, area codes mean nothing anymore.
[01:59:09.800 --> 01:59:10.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's right.
[01:59:10.860 --> 01:59:11.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:59:11.820 --> 01:59:13.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, are we going to take a call in the meantime?
[01:59:14.040 --> 01:59:14.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no.
[01:59:14.640 --> 01:59:15.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is all you.
[01:59:15.620 --> 01:59:16.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:59:16.200 --> 01:59:16.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh.
[01:59:16.580 --> 01:59:20.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: I said I'd give you a moment to shine, and now you must shine.
[01:59:21.320 --> 01:59:22.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Apparently, I'm just very busy.
[01:59:23.620 --> 01:59:23.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yep.
[01:59:24.200 --> 01:59:24.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Keep trying.
[01:59:26.560 --> 01:59:29.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: But I would imagine this would...
[01:59:29.280 --> 01:59:32.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: I imagine the number probably just burned at this point, right?
[01:59:32.420 --> 01:59:33.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: It came in earlier in the day.
[01:59:33.960 --> 01:59:42.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: Somebody probably reported it, and whoever was providing the service to it probably terminated it, and they're off to sending a new batch of emails with a new number.
[01:59:42.940 --> 01:59:45.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, you want to wait for one of those emails to come in?
[01:59:46.680 --> 01:59:47.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, let's give it a shot.
[01:59:48.020 --> 01:59:49.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Because you're a right target.
[01:59:49.240 --> 01:59:50.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: They always are sending you these emails.
[01:59:51.560 --> 01:59:52.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[01:59:52.160 --> 01:59:52.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:59:52.360 --> 01:59:55.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm really going to fall...
[01:59:55.180 --> 01:59:59.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Can you read us the text of the email, just so people might recognize it if, in fact, it happens to them?
[02:00:00.220 --> 02:00:03.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: The purchase details at the top.
[02:00:03.840 --> 02:00:04.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Dear user.
[02:00:05.060 --> 02:00:06.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: And in bold underneath it.
[02:00:06.800 --> 02:00:18.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's got the Norton LifeLock yellow circle with the check and the gradient and the pixelation coming out of the middle of this invoice.
[02:00:18.960 --> 02:00:22.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Dear user, we appreciate you selecting our offerings.
[02:00:23.160 --> 02:00:26.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Today is the last day of your individual Norton LifeLock.
[02:00:26.700 --> 02:00:30.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: The subscription will automatically renew based on the plan that you have chosen.
[02:00:30.700 --> 02:00:32.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please see the summary of your purchase below.
[02:00:33.200 --> 02:00:35.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then underneath that is the customer service number.
[02:00:35.680 --> 02:00:36.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's busy.
[02:00:37.180 --> 02:00:40.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Build to customer ID, 843, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[02:00:40.780 --> 02:00:41.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Invoice number.
[02:00:41.640 --> 02:00:43.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then there's an order number underneath that.
[02:00:43.200 --> 02:00:43.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Product description.
[02:00:44.060 --> 02:00:45.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Personal PC product.
[02:00:45.400 --> 02:00:46.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Norton LifeLock.
[02:00:46.180 --> 02:00:48.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Charge $499.
[02:00:48.920 --> 02:00:52.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: So you decided to do this.
[02:00:52.260 --> 02:00:54.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: You purchased this.
[02:00:54.140 --> 02:00:55.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: And now you're trying to get out of it.
[02:00:57.180 --> 02:00:58.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's what...
[02:00:58.220 --> 02:00:58.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[02:00:59.100 --> 02:01:01.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Alex, I mean, we've talked about this before.
[02:01:01.580 --> 02:01:04.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Your impulsive spending habits simply have to be curbed.
[02:01:05.020 --> 02:01:06.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think that's the lesson here.
[02:01:07.280 --> 02:01:09.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: So they did get the date right, though.
[02:01:09.400 --> 02:01:18.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, this email confirms that your subscription has been renewed for another one year with Norton LifeLock for $499 on 3 July, 2024.
[02:01:19.460 --> 02:01:27.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: The subscription will auto-renew every year, and every is a capital E, unless you turn it off, all caps, O-F-F.
[02:01:28.480 --> 02:01:34.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: No later than 24-hour of before, end of subscription, period.
[02:01:36.180 --> 02:01:36.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[02:01:37.540 --> 02:01:40.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, then you need to turn it off, in all caps.
[02:01:41.000 --> 02:01:41.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[02:01:41.720 --> 02:01:47.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: To cancel the subscription, the first letter of each of those words is capitalized.
[02:01:47.220 --> 02:01:47.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Just call.
[02:01:48.020 --> 02:01:49.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, but here's the thing.
[02:01:49.300 --> 02:01:54.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think, you know, my instinct is telling me that the busy signal is part of the scam.
[02:01:55.040 --> 02:01:57.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Because, okay, now you're outraged.
[02:01:57.320 --> 02:01:59.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: First of all, it doesn't say how it's getting the money from you.
[02:01:59.220 --> 02:02:00.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's just getting it from you.
[02:02:02.320 --> 02:02:04.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, obviously, you don't want this.
[02:02:04.120 --> 02:02:05.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: You have no idea this is a scam.
[02:02:05.600 --> 02:02:06.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: So what do you do?
[02:02:06.400 --> 02:02:06.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: You call.
[02:02:07.320 --> 02:02:08.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you keep calling.
[02:02:08.460 --> 02:02:09.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you call and call and call.
[02:02:09.820 --> 02:02:11.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's always busy.
[02:02:11.420 --> 02:02:12.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now what do you do?
[02:02:14.700 --> 02:02:16.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, I guess you would email, right?
[02:02:16.820 --> 02:02:17.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: I guess you have to email.
[02:02:17.900 --> 02:02:20.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: And if you email them, then I think the scam begins.
[02:02:21.600 --> 02:02:28.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I mean, I think people wouldn't find the email address so believable.
[02:02:28.280 --> 02:02:30.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: It starts off with Tina Bang.
[02:02:31.500 --> 02:02:35.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then it's a number at gmail.com.
[02:02:35.540 --> 02:02:36.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: So if you were...
[02:02:36.500 --> 02:02:36.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Gmail.com.
[02:02:37.500 --> 02:02:41.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, you know, we know Gmail is completely legitimate.
[02:02:41.480 --> 02:02:42.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right?
[02:02:42.200 --> 02:02:45.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: They're the ones that are always accusing everybody else of sending them spam.
[02:02:45.340 --> 02:02:46.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: And they are guilty of nothing.
[02:02:46.820 --> 02:02:51.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: So if somebody sends you an email from gmail.com, you have to believe it.
[02:02:51.420 --> 02:02:52.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you have to act upon it.
[02:02:52.720 --> 02:02:53.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's the law, Alex.
[02:02:53.960 --> 02:02:54.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: You should know that.
[02:02:55.000 --> 02:02:56.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's exactly right.
[02:02:56.160 --> 02:02:56.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[02:02:56.320 --> 02:03:02.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: So you better call her or reply to her and, you know, do what she says.
[02:03:03.140 --> 02:03:03.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's interesting.
[02:03:04.080 --> 02:03:09.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: So in the email and in the bogus PDF, I guess it is.
[02:03:10.000 --> 02:03:11.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't even think it's a PDF.
[02:03:11.380 --> 02:03:12.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's just an embedded image.
[02:03:12.600 --> 02:03:16.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: They have consistent order numbers and things.
[02:03:16.440 --> 02:03:18.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: So they paid some attention to detail here.
[02:03:20.660 --> 02:03:22.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, they should have ran the grammar check.
[02:03:23.240 --> 02:03:24.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: They never do.
[02:03:24.320 --> 02:03:26.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: But the thing is, nobody ever does.
[02:03:26.880 --> 02:03:34.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I find grammar problems in, you know, in press releases and in advertisements, even traffic signs.
[02:03:34.240 --> 02:03:34.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's insane.
[02:03:35.720 --> 02:03:39.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: Another reason why we really need to pay attention to things like this if we want to be believed.
[02:03:40.060 --> 02:03:46.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: But in this particular case, you know, I do think enough people will respond and be outraged and desperate.
[02:03:46.600 --> 02:03:49.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: And then they will be more prone to do what they're told to do.
[02:03:49.540 --> 02:03:57.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: I also suggest taking that exact email address, plugging that into Google, we'll see if anything comes back that mentions that email address.
[02:03:57.800 --> 02:04:05.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: It might be different for every person, or it might be one they're using a lot, in which case there's probably, you know, a Reddit conversation going on somewhere.
[02:04:07.720 --> 02:04:08.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[02:04:08.580 --> 02:04:09.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[02:04:09.240 --> 02:04:09.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.
[02:04:10.580 --> 02:04:10.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Easy.
[02:04:11.740 --> 02:04:12.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[02:04:12.980 --> 02:04:15.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to try to call them one more time here, but...
[02:04:15.520 --> 02:04:16.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're going to get a busy signal again.
[02:04:16.740 --> 02:04:17.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know you are.
[02:04:19.300 --> 02:04:19.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[02:04:20.160 --> 02:04:20.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[02:04:20.840 --> 02:04:21.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's see.
[02:04:22.960 --> 02:04:23.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[02:04:24.340 --> 02:04:25.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's see.
[02:04:31.910 --> 02:04:32.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: How'd you do that?
[02:04:32.890 --> 02:04:33.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's a fast busy.
[02:04:33.810 --> 02:04:34.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: How'd you get that?
[02:04:35.230 --> 02:04:36.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let me try that again.
[02:04:36.510 --> 02:04:36.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's weird.
[02:04:41.220 --> 02:04:41.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[02:04:44.410 --> 02:04:46.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: See, it's all these periods of silence.
[02:04:46.000 --> 02:04:47.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's what I wanted to avoid.
[02:04:53.220 --> 02:04:54.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not actually ringing.
[02:04:54.880 --> 02:04:58.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: I was calling 802-321-4225.
[02:04:58.840 --> 02:05:01.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let me see if you guys can pick up the button now.
[02:05:03.160 --> 02:05:03.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Nothing.
[02:05:03.540 --> 02:05:06.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we're kind of out of luck here.
[02:05:06.900 --> 02:05:08.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, give out the phone number now.
[02:05:08.880 --> 02:05:09.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, let's do it.
[02:05:11.680 --> 02:05:16.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's 828-471-7490.
[02:05:16.600 --> 02:05:19.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's 828-471-7490.
[02:05:20.120 --> 02:05:24.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: That apparently locates, is looking somewhere in Kellersville, North Carolina.
[02:05:25.040 --> 02:05:27.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: But no such luck.
[02:05:27.240 --> 02:05:30.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure that these guys have moved on to a new number by now.
[02:05:30.900 --> 02:05:32.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: Can you give the number one more time?
[02:05:33.360 --> 02:05:39.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: That is 828-471-7490.
[02:05:44.170 --> 02:05:45.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Are you looking something up about them?
[02:05:45.870 --> 02:05:46.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: I guess it's...
[02:05:46.390 --> 02:05:47.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, no, I see...
[02:05:49.210 --> 02:05:51.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: For some reason, the Department of Justice came up.
[02:05:51.510 --> 02:05:52.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know why.
[02:05:54.330 --> 02:05:55.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, that's interesting.
[02:05:55.770 --> 02:05:57.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: So let's see...
[02:05:58.550 --> 02:05:59.670]  [SPEAKER_05]: That is curious.
[02:06:00.070 --> 02:06:00.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you see the same thing?
[02:06:01.810 --> 02:06:04.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, I haven't Googled the number yet.
[02:06:05.530 --> 02:06:06.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's see.
[02:06:07.550 --> 02:06:09.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: Everyone can hear me type, no doubt.
[02:06:17.880 --> 02:06:26.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I think our listeners can have fun investigating this and seeing just what this is all about.
[02:06:26.980 --> 02:06:27.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: But it's common.
[02:06:27.960 --> 02:06:28.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's very...
[02:06:28.600 --> 02:06:30.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: I get emails like this all the time.
[02:06:30.740 --> 02:06:35.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I've never once felt compelled to call them or even do anything other than delete them.
[02:06:36.400 --> 02:06:36.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[02:06:37.240 --> 02:06:41.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's pretty bold how they will try to remote into your system.
[02:06:41.660 --> 02:06:45.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's interesting when you know it's going to come and then you see how they sneak it in.
[02:06:45.960 --> 02:06:50.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's what I was hoping we would be able to play around with a little bit tonight.
[02:06:50.200 --> 02:06:51.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, you've already paid for it.
[02:06:51.300 --> 02:06:52.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: They're not going to try and do that.
[02:06:52.720 --> 02:06:53.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know?
[02:06:53.540 --> 02:07:03.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: What they're going to get from you if you call them or if you reach them in some manner is they will probably say, okay, you know, with the credit card, we'll give you a credit.
[02:07:03.620 --> 02:07:05.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Just verify it for us.
[02:07:06.760 --> 02:07:09.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: They don't want, you know, any kind of fraud to be taking place.
[02:07:09.900 --> 02:07:13.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, obviously, you want that $4.99 taken off your credit card.
[02:07:13.480 --> 02:07:15.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Give them the info and they'll take care of it.
[02:07:15.640 --> 02:07:17.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: But you have to prove that it's you.
[02:07:17.700 --> 02:07:18.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right?
[02:07:18.300 --> 02:07:19.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: And not some con artist.
[02:07:20.440 --> 02:07:20.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[02:07:20.840 --> 02:07:25.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's a very strict KYC check that they'll put you through there.
[02:07:27.080 --> 02:07:27.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Screw you.
[02:07:28.060 --> 02:07:30.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: But a lot of people do fall for this all the time.
[02:07:30.600 --> 02:07:32.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Otherwise, they wouldn't be doing it.
[02:07:32.300 --> 02:07:36.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's very, very common and unfortunate.
[02:07:36.780 --> 02:07:42.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe we should have a scam of the week feature where we can do something like this.
[02:07:43.120 --> 02:07:44.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: That would be a good idea.
[02:07:44.640 --> 02:07:44.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[02:07:45.920 --> 02:07:47.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think there's enough scams to go around.
[02:07:48.360 --> 02:07:48.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[02:07:49.000 --> 02:07:49.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: It is fun to play with it.
[02:07:49.820 --> 02:07:52.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I guess in a few weeks we can try again.
[02:07:52.580 --> 02:07:56.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: We'll keep collecting these numbers and see how they go.
[02:07:57.480 --> 02:07:59.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I guess people can always give us phone numbers.
[02:08:00.200 --> 02:08:03.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, would we really trust those guys in that chat?
[02:08:04.240 --> 02:08:07.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I think we should receive the emails ourselves.
[02:08:07.840 --> 02:08:08.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: But you know what?
[02:08:08.580 --> 02:08:11.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're just inviting more spam to it.
[02:08:11.640 --> 02:08:12.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: Whatever.
[02:08:12.380 --> 02:08:13.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, there's enough spam for everybody.
[02:08:14.280 --> 02:08:16.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's enough con jobs for everybody.
[02:08:16.700 --> 02:08:17.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead, Gila.
[02:08:18.140 --> 02:08:26.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: I did hear recently about a texting scam that's been picking up in the city.
[02:08:27.160 --> 02:08:30.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the mayor is concerned that people are falling for it.
[02:08:30.300 --> 02:08:35.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: So if you get a text that says you have a $2.50 parking ticket, that's a scam.
[02:08:36.640 --> 02:08:40.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: And especially if you don't own a car, don't fall for that.
[02:08:41.960 --> 02:08:43.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a lot to keep track of.
[02:08:43.380 --> 02:08:46.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah, it seems like good advice from the esteemed mayor.
[02:08:49.500 --> 02:08:54.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Many of us say it could never happen to me, Mayor Eric Adams said Tuesday during his press conference at City Hall.
[02:08:54.660 --> 02:08:58.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: You'd be surprised how we are looped into these various requests for our personal information.
[02:08:58.540 --> 02:08:59.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: I can't with this, man.
[02:08:59.620 --> 02:09:00.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: I just can't.
[02:09:02.800 --> 02:09:03.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't hustle.
[02:09:03.880 --> 02:09:04.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Go slow.
[02:09:05.160 --> 02:09:12.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: The whole thing is that you'll be caught up in everything, you know, needing to be done quickly.
[02:09:12.460 --> 02:09:13.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: So slow down.
[02:09:14.140 --> 02:09:15.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Wait, are we giving advice to the scammers now?
[02:09:15.900 --> 02:09:17.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, people take your time.
[02:09:17.820 --> 02:09:18.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't be hustling.
[02:09:18.160 --> 02:09:19.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Because we could do that, too.
[02:09:19.180 --> 02:09:20.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: We could tell people how to pull off a better scam.
[02:09:21.220 --> 02:09:23.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, we're creative thinkers.
[02:09:23.420 --> 02:09:23.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, Alex.
[02:09:25.700 --> 02:09:33.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think the, yeah, this whole thing with the city scam thing is really fascinating.
[02:09:33.440 --> 02:09:37.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: I had some friends working on that, too, and investigating how it was going down.
[02:09:38.500 --> 02:09:51.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: But I saw something weird the other day when I was walking around 28th Street and, like, around 5th Avenue, and it was just a sticker on a pole, as there very often are, stickers on poles.
[02:09:51.700 --> 02:09:55.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it was a red background with, I believe it was white lettering of numbers on it.
[02:09:55.780 --> 02:10:00.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it just simply said, text an interesting photo to the 646 number.
[02:10:01.460 --> 02:10:02.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that was it.
[02:10:02.840 --> 02:10:07.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: No other ad or anything was just text an interesting photo, random number.
[02:10:09.340 --> 02:10:20.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I was curious about it, but not curious enough to actually go back and record the number and take a picture of it or something.
[02:10:20.180 --> 02:10:22.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: Why can't it just be somebody who wants interesting pictures?
[02:10:23.160 --> 02:10:24.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Why does it have to be something evil?
[02:10:25.360 --> 02:10:27.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: But it doesn't have to be something evil.
[02:10:27.960 --> 02:10:35.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: My guess, though, is that you get put on some kind of advertising list or some nonsense like that, and then you have to opt out of this.
[02:10:36.680 --> 02:10:37.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead, Gila.
[02:10:39.260 --> 02:10:42.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: We did have a suggestion for a suggestion box.
[02:10:42.640 --> 02:10:47.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: If people want to put in Scam of the Week suggestions, we could have a box at HOPE for people to pop those in.
[02:10:47.800 --> 02:10:49.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: That is a suggestion we have received in the chat.
[02:10:49.780 --> 02:10:51.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you, Tim, in Connecticut.
[02:10:51.820 --> 02:11:01.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we just got read to filth by our friend Lex, who asks, what was the hack of the week that they did for two weeks on Off The Hook before they forgot about it again?
[02:11:02.280 --> 02:11:04.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Which, ouch, dude.
[02:11:04.600 --> 02:11:05.000]  Ouch.
[02:11:05.000 --> 02:11:07.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I don't remember that, so...
[02:11:07.920 --> 02:11:08.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[02:11:08.580 --> 02:11:10.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: We had a theme song in everything.
[02:11:10.880 --> 02:11:13.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we did, but it did fall off the wagon.
[02:11:13.340 --> 02:11:13.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're absolutely right.
[02:11:14.080 --> 02:11:15.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's only so much you can do.
[02:11:15.840 --> 02:11:16.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's true.
[02:11:17.100 --> 02:11:21.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we're consistently inconsistent in that way, so...
[02:11:22.060 --> 02:11:35.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I think if there is a cool enough hack out there that somebody sends us at oth@2600.com and lets us know about, then I think we could see our way toward brushing the dust off of that old theme song.
[02:11:38.340 --> 02:11:40.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're always happy to hear from our listeners.
[02:11:42.680 --> 02:11:44.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, ooh, yeah.
[02:11:46.600 --> 02:11:49.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Someone says, I'll send some info at an email and maybe some more interesting ones.
[02:11:50.120 --> 02:11:51.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, that would be great.
[02:11:51.580 --> 02:11:53.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Again, oth@2600.com.
[02:11:53.620 --> 02:11:54.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let us hear from you.
[02:11:54.780 --> 02:11:55.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: We do love that.
[02:11:56.260 --> 02:12:03.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: And maybe we can revitalize Hack of the Week when we're back on in three weeks or later.
[02:12:03.920 --> 02:12:04.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: Scam of the Week.
[02:12:05.020 --> 02:12:05.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: We can do...
[02:12:05.400 --> 02:12:10.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe not both in the same week, but we can go one or the other and vote on which ones people want.
[02:12:11.200 --> 02:12:12.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: We can also decide.
[02:12:12.480 --> 02:12:14.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, we can have an of the week of the week.
[02:12:15.420 --> 02:12:18.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, this quickly gets out of control, as you can see.
[02:12:19.440 --> 02:12:20.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right, that's going to do it for us tonight.
[02:12:21.060 --> 02:12:23.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks, everybody, for holding on this long.
[02:12:23.760 --> 02:12:26.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we will see you again in three weeks.
[02:12:26.320 --> 02:12:27.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: And hopefully, we will see you at HOPE.
[02:12:27.920 --> 02:12:29.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: All the info is at hope.net.
[02:12:30.200 --> 02:12:31.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Ticket sales until Monday.
[02:12:32.860 --> 02:12:34.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: We'll have more announcements coming out.
[02:12:35.080 --> 02:12:40.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you want to get the announcements, be sure to join our mailing list, the hope-announce mailing list.
[02:12:40.360 --> 02:12:42.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can do that through the hope.net website.
[02:12:42.960 --> 02:12:44.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: And this is going to be awesome.
[02:12:44.360 --> 02:12:45.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's going to be a lot of fun.
[02:12:45.340 --> 02:12:47.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: St. John's University, July 12th through 14th.
[02:12:49.620 --> 02:12:51.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, yeah, go ahead, Rob.
[02:12:51.200 --> 02:12:52.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: You had something else.
[02:12:52.640 --> 02:12:59.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Did I hear correctly from a little bird that if you bought your HOPE tickets, you're going to start getting those in your email this weekend?
[02:13:00.100 --> 02:13:01.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, by this weekend, I'm told.
[02:13:02.600 --> 02:13:02.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Awesome.
[02:13:03.180 --> 02:13:03.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[02:13:04.360 --> 02:13:04.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right, everybody.
[02:13:05.080 --> 02:13:05.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: See you next time.
[02:13:05.740 --> 02:13:05.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good night.