[00:22.800 --> 00:24.800] [SPEAKER_02]: I have a new disease that may be done.
[00:25.020 --> 00:25.580] [SPEAKER_02]: I am sorry.
[00:26.040 --> 00:27.940] [SPEAKER_02]: Even today, I am sorry, I am sorry.
[00:27.980 --> 00:30.020] [SPEAKER_02]: You are going to be the same having to move on.
[00:30.480 --> 00:34.620] [SPEAKER_02]: So your carousel method of dialing is unavailable or temporarily disconnected.
[00:35.200 --> 00:40.520] [SPEAKER_02]: From Carries, please call customer service department at 708-2888.
[00:40.940 --> 00:44.100] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a message from AIT, your line business telephone company.
[00:44.260 --> 00:44.760] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[00:45.000 --> 00:50.180] [SPEAKER_02]: For you, the e-mail phone, please don't use the e-mail phone.
[01:02.560 --> 01:19.640] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for listening to
[01:25.540 --> 01:30.240] [SPEAKER_03]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:31.080 --> 01:35.660] [SPEAKER_03]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:36.380 --> 01:38.540] [SPEAKER_03]: We couldn't get much worse.
[01:39.340 --> 01:43.940] [SPEAKER_03]: Did it bump, but the best is back for worse.
[01:44.460 --> 01:46.460] [SPEAKER_03]: I hope that's understood.
[01:46.820 --> 01:47.520] [SPEAKER_03]: But didn't it move?
[03:02.950 --> 03:05.030] [SPEAKER_14]: And the very good evening to everybody.
[03:05.190 --> 03:06.650] [SPEAKER_14]: The program is off the hook.
[03:07.110 --> 03:10.430] [SPEAKER_14]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[03:10.430 --> 03:11.690] [SPEAKER_14]: Joined tonight by Kyle.
[03:12.350 --> 03:12.510] [SPEAKER_14]: Hello.
[03:13.210 --> 03:15.050] [SPEAKER_14]: Out in Skype-land, we have Rob T.
[03:15.190 --> 03:15.610] [SPEAKER_14]: Firefly.
[03:16.270 --> 03:17.050] [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[03:17.350 --> 03:18.130] [SPEAKER_14]: We have Gila.
[03:18.570 --> 03:19.210] [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[03:19.490 --> 03:20.230] [SPEAKER_14]: And we have Alex.
[03:21.010 --> 03:21.730] [SPEAKER_11]: You do.
[03:21.930 --> 03:22.310] [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[03:22.590 --> 03:26.170] [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, I'm very happy that we're all here tonight.
[03:26.170 --> 03:28.790] [SPEAKER_14]: It's one of those anniversaries.
[03:28.790 --> 03:32.050] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, those anniversaries we like to kind of forget.
[03:32.710 --> 03:33.950] [SPEAKER_14]: 23 years ago.
[03:34.270 --> 03:36.490] [SPEAKER_14]: Tonight was 9-11, the original 9-11.
[03:37.670 --> 03:39.190] [SPEAKER_14]: Of course, that was on a Tuesday.
[03:39.550 --> 03:42.830] [SPEAKER_14]: And wouldn't you know it, our show used to be on Tuesday nights.
[03:42.950 --> 03:46.690] [SPEAKER_14]: And we almost, almost had a show that night.
[03:48.010 --> 03:58.790] [SPEAKER_14]: What I'd like to do, just for a little while, is kind of recollect where each of us was on that especially occasion.
[03:59.210 --> 04:06.410] [SPEAKER_14]: For myself, I'd like to do that by playing what we played over the air 23 years ago.
[04:07.210 --> 04:17.450] [SPEAKER_14]: Not on September 11th, because the station was knocked off the air when one of the other buildings fell and knocked out the power to all of downtown.
[04:18.830 --> 04:26.110] [SPEAKER_14]: But on the 18th, the next week, we all came back still stunned, still trying to process it all.
[04:28.370 --> 04:29.810] [SPEAKER_14]: And this is what we aired.
[04:31.530 --> 04:32.870] [SPEAKER_13]: This is Off The Hook.
[04:33.010 --> 04:41.630] [SPEAKER_13]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this, what's bound to be probably one of the weirdest Tuesday nights we've had in ages, hopefully ever.
[04:44.390 --> 04:49.590] [SPEAKER_13]: And we have a lot of people here that we want to talk to, and we want to talk to you as well.
[04:49.770 --> 04:52.730] [SPEAKER_13]: We'll take some phone calls and try to get through this.
[04:52.990 --> 04:54.050] [SPEAKER_13]: And please bear with us.
[04:54.130 --> 05:11.130] [SPEAKER_13]: It's going to be difficult, because what happened, what everyone across the world has been talking about for the past week, without hesitation, without any kind of a break whatsoever, it happened only a couple of blocks away from where I'm sitting right now,
[05:11.370 --> 05:12.830] [SPEAKER_13]: right in this studio here.
[05:12.830 --> 05:18.350] [SPEAKER_13]: It's the weirdest sensation to know that, you know, just to know what occurred.
[05:18.350 --> 05:21.670] [SPEAKER_13]: And the fact that it's not just on your TV set, it's real.
[05:21.830 --> 05:22.630] [SPEAKER_13]: It really happened.
[05:23.370 --> 05:25.390] [SPEAKER_13]: You know, it really took place.
[05:26.430 --> 05:32.510] [SPEAKER_13]: The first time heading into New York and just seeing what I was seeing on television in front of me.
[05:33.110 --> 05:34.270] [SPEAKER_13]: And that was last week.
[05:34.370 --> 05:35.210] [SPEAKER_13]: That was last Tuesday.
[05:36.670 --> 05:43.790] [SPEAKER_13]: Because, as you know, of course, this dreadful thing happened last Tuesday morning at around 8.45.
[05:46.910 --> 06:07.270] [SPEAKER_13]: And even though it was obvious that the city was going to be completely unlike New York from that point on, and certainly on that day, I felt this strange kind of drive, this obligation that the radio station was the place to be.
[06:07.370 --> 06:10.810] [SPEAKER_13]: The radio station was the place to gravitate towards.
[06:12.030 --> 06:25.490] [SPEAKER_13]: And I'm quite certain that just about everybody here at this place who has been involved with this place over the years, over the decades, and of course a lot of the listeners probably felt the same kind of spirit of, this is the time to come together,
[06:25.650 --> 06:31.250] [SPEAKER_13]: this is the time to reach out, communicate, see if everybody's okay, which we're still in the process of doing.
[06:34.890 --> 06:43.470] [SPEAKER_13]: And so I headed out to New York last week, many, many hours early, because I knew it was going to be hell to get in, and it was hell to get in.
[06:45.990 --> 06:49.590] [SPEAKER_13]: Weird, because driving from Long Island, it was amazingly quiet.
[06:49.590 --> 06:52.970] [SPEAKER_13]: There was very few cars on the parkway or expressway.
[06:53.810 --> 07:01.030] [SPEAKER_13]: But almost immediately upon hitting Queens, all of a sudden, wow, you couldn't move.
[07:01.270 --> 07:04.230] [SPEAKER_13]: It was impossible to move forward.
[07:04.270 --> 07:16.350] [SPEAKER_13]: So I knew that the best thing to do at that point, since the subways were running on partial schedules, was to just leave my car someplace and hop on a train and just try to get into Manhattan.
[07:16.350 --> 07:24.730] [SPEAKER_13]: And it was such a weird phenomenon to see this, to see the streets of Queens.
[07:24.730 --> 07:30.770] [SPEAKER_13]: I hadn't even gotten to Manhattan yet, but in the streets of Queens, there were barricades, there were buses blocking Northern Boulevard.
[07:31.350 --> 07:36.990] [SPEAKER_13]: I abandoned the parkway and the expressway and got onto some of the side streets and eventually made my way to Northern Boulevard.
[07:37.110 --> 07:40.330] [SPEAKER_13]: And for some reason, buses were blocking certain intersections.
[07:40.330 --> 07:49.510] [SPEAKER_13]: And I had to wonder why, what was going on all the way out in Queens, that certain streets had to be closed off main streets, main arteries, and people rerouted onto side streets.
[07:52.070 --> 07:59.190] [SPEAKER_13]: But eventually, I just parked my car in front of somebody's house someplace and then just got out and started walking.
[08:00.670 --> 08:07.690] [SPEAKER_13]: It was my intention to walk to the 179th Street station and get on the F train.
[08:08.710 --> 08:13.150] [SPEAKER_13]: Of course, being an idiot, I didn't realize that I parked on Northern Boulevard and not Hillside Avenue.
[08:13.310 --> 08:18.870] [SPEAKER_13]: So, of course, I didn't realize that mistake until I tried to get back many hours later and realized I was nowhere near where I thought I was.
[08:21.590 --> 08:23.070] [SPEAKER_13]: But eventually, I found a bus.
[08:23.250 --> 08:24.970] [SPEAKER_13]: And I just got on the bus and took that to Flushing.
[08:25.090 --> 08:26.350] [SPEAKER_13]: Buses weren't charging at all.
[08:26.430 --> 08:28.290] [SPEAKER_13]: I just got on the bus and they just let you on.
[08:28.290 --> 08:29.770] [SPEAKER_13]: It was the strangest feeling.
[08:30.350 --> 08:33.730] [SPEAKER_13]: And there was just a mood around the whole town that was just different.
[08:34.030 --> 08:36.090] [SPEAKER_13]: You know, it was hard to put your finger on it.
[08:36.190 --> 08:39.970] [SPEAKER_13]: People weren't, you know, openly sobbing or going hysterical in the streets.
[08:40.070 --> 08:46.150] [SPEAKER_13]: But you could feel kind of a quiet that isn't normally there in New York and just kind of an intensity.
[08:46.610 --> 08:54.730] [SPEAKER_13]: There's kind of this look that, you know, I'm going from point A to point B and there'll be no deviations today.
[08:55.730 --> 08:57.030] [SPEAKER_13]: I've seen that look before.
[08:57.030 --> 09:06.490] [SPEAKER_13]: I've seen that look before in documentaries about cities that are being bombed or that have been going through long civil wars and things like that.
[09:06.550 --> 09:09.850] [SPEAKER_13]: And here it is, seeing it on a bus in Queens.
[09:11.530 --> 09:12.630] [SPEAKER_13]: Eventually, I made it to the No.
[09:12.690 --> 09:21.470] [SPEAKER_13]: 7 train, which actually was going to Manhattan, to Grand Central Station, actually was doing what the media says was impossible, getting into Manhattan.
[09:21.730 --> 09:24.250] [SPEAKER_13]: And the people on the train just didn't seem that fazed.
[09:24.350 --> 09:25.390] [SPEAKER_13]: They were just reading the paper.
[09:25.690 --> 09:27.810] [SPEAKER_13]: The World Trade Center is in back, burning.
[09:28.090 --> 09:32.550] [SPEAKER_13]: You could see the smoke rising into the sky from the train outside.
[09:33.430 --> 09:34.590] [SPEAKER_13]: People are reading the paper.
[09:34.590 --> 09:38.870] [SPEAKER_13]: I was the only person standing up in the front of the train, looking in amazement.
[09:41.570 --> 09:47.270] [SPEAKER_13]: And so eventually, eventually we, the train got into Manhattan.
[09:47.270 --> 09:49.250] [SPEAKER_13]: I found out that's the furthest south I could get.
[09:50.010 --> 09:52.950] [SPEAKER_13]: So I had to meet up with some people, walk the rest of the way.
[09:53.690 --> 09:57.050] [SPEAKER_13]: And it was a long walk from Grand Central to Wall Street.
[09:57.050 --> 10:09.210] [SPEAKER_13]: And while there were police everywhere, there were all kinds of vehicles, all kinds of fire department and medical personnel and police everywhere, going in every direction, north, south, east, west.
[10:09.370 --> 10:15.230] [SPEAKER_13]: They were going every place, blocking streets, just by foot, running around.
[10:16.630 --> 10:19.250] [SPEAKER_13]: But still, it was not hard to get downtown.
[10:19.990 --> 10:22.750] [SPEAKER_13]: There was nobody saying you couldn't walk down the street.
[10:22.750 --> 10:26.110] [SPEAKER_13]: I think they were too busy worrying about the cars going down the streets.
[10:26.890 --> 10:28.630] [SPEAKER_13]: And so it took a long, long time.
[10:28.790 --> 10:31.690] [SPEAKER_13]: But eventually, we made it all the way down here.
[10:32.130 --> 10:35.950] [SPEAKER_13]: The air was really, really thick with all kinds of debris.
[10:36.410 --> 10:40.650] [SPEAKER_13]: You had to have something covering your face, or it would have been impossible to breathe.
[10:41.750 --> 10:55.790] [SPEAKER_13]: And unfortunately, by the time we got here, which was right about 8 o'clock, it was close to 8, and we found out that, in fact, power had been lost to this building and a couple of others in the immediate area, and the radio station had been evacuated about an hour,
[10:56.010 --> 10:57.210] [SPEAKER_13]: hour or two hours earlier.
[10:58.070 --> 11:06.690] [SPEAKER_13]: And so while our transmitter remained unaffected, our transmitter was broadcasting just fine, there was no audio signal to the transmitter.
[11:06.690 --> 11:18.010] [SPEAKER_13]: So basically what that amounted to was silence going over the radio, which unfortunately was the one thing that I think we needed to have more than silence, obviously, in a time like this.
[11:20.010 --> 11:38.890] [SPEAKER_13]: And we spent the rest of the night just kind of wandering around, just looking at things, looking at the reaction, I guess, just seeing all these emergency vehicles in every part of the city, and seeing people, you know, strangers, friends, people that just all of a sudden meant a whole lot more,
[11:39.290 --> 11:52.770] [SPEAKER_13]: you know, and spent hours just talking and, you know, small talk or talking about the devastation or talking about anything, just being glad to be around where you could talk to these individual people.
[11:56.750 --> 12:05.130] [SPEAKER_13]: And it took a long time to get home, too, because of the aforementioned parking in the wrong part of Queens and taking two hours to find where I actually did park.
[12:05.590 --> 12:11.330] [SPEAKER_13]: But after that, I just kind of didn't feel like going out again for a while.
[12:11.910 --> 12:13.230] [SPEAKER_13]: I just felt like...
[12:14.930 --> 12:34.950] [SPEAKER_13]: I guess what a lot of us have been feeling over the past several days, just kind of wanting to hibernate, wanting to get away from all of this, wanting to see people and just, you know, hang out and prize the quiet times, the times with the people that you didn't realize mattered so much.
[12:36.570 --> 12:43.590] [SPEAKER_13]: And it was an eye-opener in many, many ways, because here's something that all of us, all of us were familiar with.
[12:43.690 --> 12:46.010] [SPEAKER_13]: We had all seen the Twin Towers of Manhattan.
[12:47.110 --> 12:50.390] [SPEAKER_13]: There was something we grew up with, something we became accustomed to.
[12:50.570 --> 12:51.610] [SPEAKER_13]: It was New York.
[12:52.790 --> 13:00.290] [SPEAKER_13]: And within the space of a couple of hours, they were destroyed, completely wiped off the face of the earth, and everybody inside along with them.
[13:01.230 --> 13:03.130] [SPEAKER_13]: And it made you realize how...
[13:04.530 --> 13:09.950] [SPEAKER_13]: no matter how big something is, there's nothing permanent about it.
[13:10.130 --> 13:12.690] [SPEAKER_13]: It can be wiped off the face of the earth, just like that.
[13:13.870 --> 13:18.970] [SPEAKER_13]: And at the same time, I realized that all the small things that we take for granted, they matter more than anything.
[13:20.870 --> 13:22.990] [SPEAKER_13]: And that's kind of what I've been doing over the last week.
[13:23.230 --> 13:24.390] [SPEAKER_13]: Not a whole lot of work.
[13:25.330 --> 13:29.450] [SPEAKER_13]: Not a whole lot of anything, I guess, defined in our society as productive.
[13:31.670 --> 13:32.990] [SPEAKER_13]: But a lot of...
[13:35.330 --> 13:36.690] [SPEAKER_13]: a lot of seeking of comfort.
[13:36.950 --> 13:39.490] [SPEAKER_13]: And I think that's what many of us in New York have been doing.
[13:40.550 --> 13:51.470] [SPEAKER_13]: And I'd certainly like to talk to people here, both in the studio and people over the phone, see how we made out, how we're going to make out in the future.
[13:53.430 --> 13:55.570] [SPEAKER_13]: I'm glad this place is still here.
[13:55.790 --> 13:57.750] [SPEAKER_13]: I'm sorry for all the time that we were off the air.
[13:58.130 --> 13:59.390] [SPEAKER_13]: I wish we could have done more.
[14:03.420 --> 14:13.860] [SPEAKER_14]: From the Off The Hook archives, September 18th, 2001, the week after the 9-11 attacks.
[14:15.060 --> 14:18.760] [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, it was a very personal thing for me, very personal thing for everybody.
[14:18.760 --> 14:20.460] [SPEAKER_14]: I think those are the interesting stories.
[14:20.720 --> 14:26.440] [SPEAKER_14]: We're all very familiar with them, how we responded as a nation, how the world responded.
[14:26.480 --> 14:32.640] [SPEAKER_14]: But I think the more interesting stories are the individual ones, what we felt as people.
[14:32.840 --> 14:36.160] [SPEAKER_14]: And I'd like to open it up to everybody here, if you choose.
[14:36.160 --> 14:39.120] [SPEAKER_14]: And, of course, you know, something private and personal.
[14:40.440 --> 14:42.220] [SPEAKER_14]: You have every right to keep that to yourself.
[14:43.080 --> 14:49.340] [SPEAKER_14]: But if anyone wants to say where they were on September 11th, 2001,
[14:52.560 --> 14:54.280] [SPEAKER_14]: please raise your hand.
[14:54.480 --> 14:55.700] [SPEAKER_14]: Alex, I see your hand is up.
[14:56.640 --> 14:57.260] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, sure.
[14:57.260 --> 15:02.280] [SPEAKER_10]: That was something to listen to, Emmanuel.
[15:02.480 --> 15:03.020] [SPEAKER_10]: It really was.
[15:03.120 --> 15:03.780] [SPEAKER_10]: It brought back a lot.
[15:03.780 --> 15:09.980] [SPEAKER_10]: I think I was there in studio with you when you had broadcast that.
[15:11.140 --> 15:18.400] [SPEAKER_10]: I do remember that very night, though, that we all went out to dinner on the 18th of September, one week afterwards.
[15:18.700 --> 15:24.440] [SPEAKER_10]: And we ran into our friend, David, who used to be part of our crew at that point.
[15:25.000 --> 15:27.520] [SPEAKER_10]: And I remember talking with him.
[15:27.640 --> 15:33.880] [SPEAKER_10]: And I believe at the time he was working or had worked in the World Trade Center fairly recently.
[15:34.100 --> 15:40.620] [SPEAKER_10]: And he told us that his friends, he was up to, I think, 25 people that he knew that he had lost at that point.
[15:40.820 --> 15:44.180] [SPEAKER_10]: It was kind of crazy to hear about it.
[15:44.240 --> 15:48.480] [SPEAKER_10]: But I was on Long Island when this happened.
[15:48.480 --> 15:53.280] [SPEAKER_10]: And I remember, literally, I was putting my pants on to go to work.
[15:53.600 --> 15:57.840] [SPEAKER_10]: I actually woke up at my girlfriend's place out on Oakdale.
[15:58.100 --> 15:59.220] [SPEAKER_10]: I was putting my pants on to go to work.
[15:59.220 --> 16:00.580] [SPEAKER_10]: I had the television on.
[16:00.960 --> 16:04.180] [SPEAKER_10]: And I thought to myself, what the hell has just happened?
[16:04.380 --> 16:07.720] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, the plane had crashed into the World Trade Center.
[16:07.820 --> 16:12.640] [SPEAKER_10]: I thought this has got to be some kind of small plane.
[16:12.640 --> 16:17.960] [SPEAKER_10]: It's got to be a small accident, you know, like a Cessna or something like that.
[16:18.080 --> 16:20.780] [SPEAKER_10]: Some kind of, you know, five or six person plane.
[16:21.440 --> 16:24.820] [SPEAKER_10]: Not a 747 or any kind of massive plane.
[16:24.980 --> 16:26.960] [SPEAKER_10]: There's just no way that could ever happen.
[16:27.760 --> 16:40.960] [SPEAKER_10]: And then watching this and seeing the debris fall out of the World Trade Center and seeing the people stranded up there and how big this hole was in the side of the building, you realize, like, what the hell is happening here?
[16:41.380 --> 16:42.980] [SPEAKER_10]: Something is going on.
[16:43.600 --> 16:47.120] [SPEAKER_10]: And then when the other plane hit, that was when it all came together.
[16:47.480 --> 16:52.060] [SPEAKER_10]: That was when, you know, you started to put two and two together and realize that America was under attack.
[16:53.200 --> 16:54.240] [SPEAKER_10]: It was terrifying.
[16:55.640 --> 17:00.060] [SPEAKER_10]: And I had, like I said, I was on my way to work that morning.
[17:00.180 --> 17:01.560] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I stayed home for a while.
[17:01.780 --> 17:02.940] [SPEAKER_10]: We watched what was happening.
[17:03.140 --> 17:04.760] [SPEAKER_10]: I was in touch with people at work.
[17:04.760 --> 17:10.960] [SPEAKER_10]: I was working at a software company at the time out on Long Island and was also a college student.
[17:12.400 --> 17:13.980] [SPEAKER_10]: And I had...
[17:13.980 --> 17:22.760] [SPEAKER_10]: I remember passing by Main Street in Sayville at the time and feeling like I needed to do something here.
[17:22.820 --> 17:27.320] [SPEAKER_10]: It felt very much like, you know, we were a nation under attack at that moment.
[17:27.480 --> 17:29.600] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, the Pentagon was hit, the World Trade Center was hit.
[17:29.680 --> 17:31.580] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, everything had happened at this particular time.
[17:32.080 --> 17:39.420] [SPEAKER_10]: And I stopped off at the Masonic Lodge on Main Street in Sayville where I was a member of this lodge.
[17:39.580 --> 17:45.780] [SPEAKER_10]: I had recently become a member and I had the keys to it because I used to mow the lawn at the lodge.
[17:45.880 --> 17:47.400] [SPEAKER_10]: I was one of the youngest people there.
[17:47.960 --> 17:49.420] [SPEAKER_10]: Everyone else was kind of aging.
[17:49.960 --> 17:56.920] [SPEAKER_10]: And I went inside and I took out the American flag and I hung it out so that it was out there waving on Main Street.
[17:57.060 --> 18:01.440] [SPEAKER_10]: It sounds a little jingoistic and maybe overly patriotic at this moment.
[18:01.600 --> 18:04.780] [SPEAKER_10]: But at that time, it seemed to feel really right to do that.
[18:04.780 --> 18:28.200] [SPEAKER_10]: And then I went to work and what you said about the people in the broadcast from the 18th about the people being on the bus and reading the newspapers, that really resonated with me, Emmanuel, because within the software company of work, there was this kind of cabal of hardcore programmers that had a deadline and wouldn't be distracted by anything.
[18:28.360 --> 18:31.360] [SPEAKER_10]: And so they just decided that they were going to just keep going.
[18:32.080 --> 18:33.720] [SPEAKER_10]: We had the television out.
[18:33.720 --> 18:36.860] [SPEAKER_10]: I was part of the IT department there and we were watching everything.
[18:36.980 --> 18:41.600] [SPEAKER_10]: The whole place was basically in tears and crying and worried and anxious.
[18:42.280 --> 18:53.920] [SPEAKER_10]: And yet, in the upper left area of this office where the programmers sat, there were just people there still trying to be hardcore and tough as if, you know, this is New York and we just get on with it.
[18:54.060 --> 18:57.580] [SPEAKER_10]: But how silly it is for them to have done that.
[18:57.640 --> 19:09.360] [SPEAKER_10]: And I hope that they look back at that particular moment and think how absolutely ridiculous it was to not pay attention to what was going on in the world at that really historical moment and to not be present with your friends and your family.
[19:10.360 --> 19:12.340] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, the code could always wait.
[19:12.680 --> 19:23.000] [SPEAKER_10]: So that bit and hearing that kind of resonated with me because I will never forget just the absolute idiocy of continuing to feel like you needed to work at that time.
[19:23.380 --> 19:24.700] [SPEAKER_10]: It was not a time to work.
[19:24.760 --> 19:25.660] [SPEAKER_10]: It was a time to be together.
[19:26.200 --> 19:30.900] [SPEAKER_14]: If I can just step in for a second, Alex, I think everybody processes in a different way.
[19:31.360 --> 19:34.320] [SPEAKER_14]: For some people, I think that might have been therapeutic.
[19:34.580 --> 19:35.980] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm not saying they were being therapeutic.
[19:36.120 --> 19:37.540] [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe they didn't care at all.
[19:37.660 --> 19:38.120] [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[19:38.400 --> 19:41.740] [SPEAKER_14]: I just don't think that we can apply our own values.
[19:42.080 --> 19:46.980] [SPEAKER_14]: For instance, I'm not going to say anything about you planting an American flag or describing that as America under attack.
[19:47.160 --> 19:48.820] [SPEAKER_14]: I view it in a completely different way.
[19:49.000 --> 19:50.740] [SPEAKER_14]: We all process it very differently.
[19:50.880 --> 19:54.620] [SPEAKER_14]: And I think that's what New York was getting during that period.
[19:55.160 --> 19:55.980] [SPEAKER_10]: I'll buy that.
[19:56.100 --> 19:56.660] [SPEAKER_10]: I'll buy that.
[19:56.820 --> 19:56.920] [SPEAKER_10]: Sure.
[19:56.980 --> 19:59.200] [SPEAKER_10]: We can give them the benefit of the doubt in hindsight.
[19:59.800 --> 19:59.920] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[20:00.080 --> 20:03.400] [SPEAKER_14]: We went actually to an Afghan place.
[20:03.540 --> 20:05.420] [SPEAKER_14]: It used to be on St. Mark's.
[20:05.700 --> 20:11.500] [SPEAKER_14]: And I just remember the people, the people who were going there, going to the staff and saying, are you okay?
[20:12.000 --> 20:13.640] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, are you being hassled?
[20:13.760 --> 20:14.740] [SPEAKER_14]: Are you being threatened?
[20:15.400 --> 20:20.420] [SPEAKER_14]: That was a concern of New Yorkers for their fellow New Yorkers, wherever they happen to be from.
[20:20.660 --> 20:22.500] [SPEAKER_14]: We were all caught up in this nightmare.
[20:23.490 --> 20:25.360] [SPEAKER_11]: I remember that Afghan place.
[20:25.360 --> 20:25.880] [SPEAKER_11]: I do.
[20:26.140 --> 20:27.580] [SPEAKER_11]: It was excellent.
[20:27.760 --> 20:29.040] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it's amazing.
[20:30.320 --> 20:30.740] [SPEAKER_14]: Kyber Pass.
[20:31.000 --> 20:32.820] [SPEAKER_14]: It's out of business so we can say what it was.
[20:32.940 --> 20:34.760] [SPEAKER_14]: Kyber Pass was a great place.
[20:35.140 --> 20:37.200] [SPEAKER_14]: Anyone else have recollections?
[20:37.280 --> 20:37.380] [SPEAKER_14]: Rob?
[20:38.780 --> 20:39.220] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[20:40.760 --> 20:46.600] [SPEAKER_01]: At that point, I was living on Long Island and I had the day off.
[20:46.800 --> 20:49.600] [SPEAKER_01]: I was very fortunate to not be at work when this all happened.
[20:50.750 --> 20:53.760] [SPEAKER_01]: but I had the day off so I had stayed out late the night before.
[20:54.440 --> 21:03.780] [SPEAKER_01]: Probably went out to see a movie or something and my plan for the day was to just whenever I wake up as I spent a lot of my days off I would go into the city.
[21:04.000 --> 21:11.740] [SPEAKER_01]: I would, you know, visit folks, do some shopping, whatever, putter around a non-specific day just in Manhattan.
[21:13.260 --> 21:34.540] [SPEAKER_01]: But I the first thing that happened to me that day was my phone rang which was next to my bed and it was my best friend shouting at me to turn on the television and I like groggily asked what channel and she said just turn it on and obviously it became apparent that what was going on was on all the channels.
[21:36.800 --> 22:06.600] [SPEAKER_01]: And my job at the time was I was manager of an arcade in the Sunrise Mall in Massapequa and so the first thing I had to do while waiting for you know after I got a handle on what was going on we talked a little bit she was coming over driving over to pick me up while waiting for her I checked with my colleagues the company I worked for had locations and employees in New York City and elsewhere and
[22:06.600 --> 22:13.940] [SPEAKER_01]: people traveling people driving through New York So I checked on folks, made sure that we didn't have anyone that we hadn't heard from.
[22:14.640 --> 22:16.660] [SPEAKER_01]: Everything was obviously shut down for the day.
[22:17.440 --> 22:26.820] [SPEAKER_01]: And so once I knew that things were not worse in those respects, I just took the day.
[22:26.820 --> 22:39.280] [SPEAKER_01]: And my friend and I had the, I guess, luxury, comparatively speaking, of just sitting at her place and watching everything go down.
[22:40.380 --> 22:47.620] [SPEAKER_01]: Her Internet connection, which at the time was through AOL, sometimes worked, sometimes cut her off.
[22:47.620 --> 22:49.360] [SPEAKER_01]: The phone lines were undependable.
[22:50.280 --> 23:03.420] [SPEAKER_01]: But we were able to get on enough to sort of get the sense of, okay, people we know are accounted for and just proceed through the day.
[23:03.660 --> 23:12.240] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny you mentioned the American flag thing, Alex, because I remember one thing that one of the newspapers had done.
[23:12.240 --> 23:19.660] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was, I think it was Newsday, had, I think the next day, just included a big paper American flag with every issue.
[23:21.020 --> 23:25.060] [SPEAKER_01]: And when I eventually returned to work, the mall opened back up and everything.
[23:25.720 --> 23:33.900] [SPEAKER_01]: The first thing that happened was my friend who ran the newsstand in the mall was handing these flags out to all the other store operators.
[23:34.460 --> 23:45.540] [SPEAKER_01]: And we each had them just hung up in some prominent place, because whether or not you felt all that jingoistic about it, it was something that we had to do.
[23:45.680 --> 23:48.960] [SPEAKER_01]: We had to just acknowledge in some way what had happened.
[23:51.740 --> 23:55.640] [SPEAKER_01]: And that just continued.
[23:55.820 --> 23:56.620] [SPEAKER_01]: There was a numbness.
[23:56.820 --> 24:08.980] [SPEAKER_01]: There was the following days and weeks, the realization that what was in the air, even out on Long Island, this plume coming from the site and the knowledge of what it is, we were all breathing.
[24:11.700 --> 24:27.240] [SPEAKER_01]: And then to say nothing of the social repercussions that continued, watching colleagues in the mall have to be escorted to their cars by security, because they looked Middle Eastern in origin, whether or not they were.
[24:27.640 --> 24:34.600] [SPEAKER_01]: The increased... everyone was on edge, on tenterhooks, and people were ready to blow up at each other.
[24:34.600 --> 24:40.060] [SPEAKER_01]: There were a couple of fights in the arcade, which was not a common occurrence, I think, before that.
[24:41.420 --> 24:41.860] [SPEAKER_01]: And...
[24:42.460 --> 24:50.840] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there are things that I still consider a lot, especially around this time of year.
[24:52.260 --> 24:52.700] [SPEAKER_01]: But...
[24:53.880 --> 24:55.780] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's worth remembering.
[24:55.960 --> 25:03.620] [SPEAKER_01]: I actually was listening to Off The Hook when you made that broadcast on the 18th, whether or not it was in the arcade, because I used to put it on the speakers in the store.
[25:04.600 --> 25:10.360] [SPEAKER_01]: When it was on, so whether it was there, whether it was at home, I don't remember, but I remember listening to it.
[25:10.760 --> 25:11.200] [SPEAKER_01]: And...
[25:12.000 --> 25:15.660] [SPEAKER_01]: Hearing your voice again, Emmanuel, was comforting.
[25:16.340 --> 25:21.180] [SPEAKER_01]: And something from before this happened that, you know, I could be assured was still going on.
[25:23.280 --> 25:24.500] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, belated, thanks.
[25:25.220 --> 25:26.440] [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you for that.
[25:27.700 --> 25:28.520] [SPEAKER_14]: Anyone else, Kyle?
[25:28.760 --> 25:28.980] [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead.
[25:29.440 --> 25:29.800] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yeah.
[25:30.580 --> 25:34.140] [SPEAKER_09]: I've told this a bunch of times in a bunch of different ways.
[25:34.300 --> 25:45.380] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think itself, the act of recollection, it's tiresome in some ways, but it's also important to keep, I guess, sharing and retelling it in a different way.
[25:45.380 --> 25:51.680] [SPEAKER_09]: But I have a lot of different ways of thinking about it, and I'm not trying to say anything.
[25:52.720 --> 25:58.440] [SPEAKER_09]: Like you pointed out, it's up for everybody's interpretation.
[25:58.440 --> 26:03.460] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know even if how I came to understand all of it is the right way.
[26:03.460 --> 26:08.800] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, it's just how I ended up reckoning with it, personally.
[26:09.080 --> 26:13.480] [SPEAKER_09]: But it occurred at a time in my life when I was...
[26:13.480 --> 26:16.680] [SPEAKER_09]: There was, like, excitement and optimism for the future.
[26:17.080 --> 26:20.460] [SPEAKER_09]: I was just starting in college.
[26:22.780 --> 26:25.300] [SPEAKER_09]: And I was sitting...
[26:25.300 --> 26:26.700] [SPEAKER_09]: Basically, I woke up...
[26:26.700 --> 26:41.960] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'd already, like, kind of met people and was socializing and, like, on that kind of high of, like, being new and having fun and that revelry of what is, you know, being on your own for the first time.
[26:42.700 --> 26:47.300] [SPEAKER_09]: And so there's no bitterness or any kind of negative to it.
[26:47.300 --> 26:50.160] [SPEAKER_09]: And I had a lot of work ahead of me, presumably.
[26:50.160 --> 27:12.240] [SPEAKER_09]: But, so, and, of course, my course load reflected my interest, which was media and audio, video, all of the sorts of production stuff that I was kind of, you know, intrigued by or thought maybe I could play around with and make something of.
[27:13.380 --> 27:17.160] [SPEAKER_09]: And at the time, a lot of that stuff was changing with digital formats and stuff.
[27:17.160 --> 27:21.400] [SPEAKER_09]: So it was kind of cool to think about what my future might be in that.
[27:21.540 --> 27:26.700] [SPEAKER_09]: And so the class I was in was a mass media class for that track.
[27:27.120 --> 27:30.080] [SPEAKER_09]: And I was at a...
[27:30.080 --> 27:34.660] [SPEAKER_09]: In a big city in Chicago at a religious school.
[27:36.160 --> 27:37.640] [SPEAKER_09]: And I don't know.
[27:37.820 --> 27:40.840] [SPEAKER_09]: I think it...
[27:40.840 --> 27:43.200] [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't know what it was in the class.
[27:43.200 --> 27:48.100] [SPEAKER_09]: Because, basically, I woke up and, like, showed up at this early class.
[27:48.780 --> 27:52.880] [SPEAKER_09]: And they just said, you know, turned on the TV.
[27:53.260 --> 27:55.700] [SPEAKER_09]: And, like, we sat there and watched it.
[27:55.840 --> 27:59.300] [SPEAKER_09]: I just remember being in there and not knowing what it was.
[27:59.520 --> 28:04.520] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, you know how you go to a class and you don't know what the curriculum calls for that day?
[28:04.660 --> 28:05.940] [SPEAKER_09]: Is this movie day?
[28:05.960 --> 28:11.840] [SPEAKER_09]: Or, like, we would watch some of the, like, Jackson Cats and Media Foundation stuff.
[28:11.840 --> 28:13.320] [SPEAKER_09]: And so, like, you got to...
[28:13.320 --> 28:14.640] [SPEAKER_09]: Eventually, we did, I think.
[28:14.840 --> 28:27.900] [SPEAKER_09]: And that was where, like, critical theory and a lot of that stuff started making me think about, like, sociology and the political economy and all of that in media.
[28:28.180 --> 28:33.740] [SPEAKER_09]: And so, like, are we watching some instructional or critical film of the news?
[28:33.740 --> 28:36.320] [SPEAKER_09]: But it was just us watching the news.
[28:36.440 --> 28:37.740] [SPEAKER_09]: And then that was it.
[28:37.780 --> 28:40.780] [SPEAKER_09]: I just remember not knowing what it was and the confusion of it.
[28:40.780 --> 28:44.240] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think confusion might be something, a synonym for a lot of people.
[28:44.400 --> 28:49.040] [SPEAKER_09]: And I guess how to keep it short and come out of that.
[28:49.100 --> 28:57.680] [SPEAKER_09]: I just remember, like, an assistant or TA, like, handing out sheets that were describing different sources of media to look to.
[28:57.700 --> 29:01.160] [SPEAKER_09]: And that was what the professor was encouraging us to do.
[29:01.220 --> 29:02.360] [SPEAKER_09]: I remember that as a takeaway.
[29:02.360 --> 29:10.500] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think that point Alex made about hearing your voice, I was listening to the show at the time.
[29:10.500 --> 29:19.980] [SPEAKER_09]: So I was a listener, I think, and going through, I think, all the way through 2004, through the invasion, even.
[29:20.140 --> 29:24.040] [SPEAKER_09]: I was listening off the wall started as well.
[29:24.040 --> 29:31.580] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think your interpretation of it, helping people grapple with it, was one of those sources of media, if that makes sense.
[29:31.880 --> 29:41.620] [SPEAKER_09]: Because, like, Pacifica or, you know, community radio in general was one of those sorts of non, shall we say, mainstream forms of media.
[29:41.620 --> 29:46.360] [SPEAKER_09]: And that's, I guess, where I would say, like, today, like, what it is and how we look at it.
[29:46.460 --> 29:49.640] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't really like a lot of the ways it is looked at.
[29:51.600 --> 30:00.840] [SPEAKER_09]: Because, to me, it completely derailed a lot of that revelry or optimism for what I had to look forward to personally.
[30:00.840 --> 30:05.440] [SPEAKER_09]: And in the larger sense for America and for the world.
[30:06.260 --> 30:16.680] [SPEAKER_09]: And I feel like it took, it completely, it basically was the only thing people spoke through from then on.
[30:17.420 --> 30:20.780] [SPEAKER_09]: And then it was morphed into conflict.
[30:20.780 --> 30:31.460] [SPEAKER_09]: And it became sort of the seed of what we might say is polarized politics now and stuff.
[30:31.620 --> 30:37.540] [SPEAKER_09]: And so, like, I look at it now and I'm kind of like, I kind of hate it for that.
[30:37.720 --> 30:38.460] [SPEAKER_09]: For me.
[30:38.640 --> 30:41.400] [SPEAKER_09]: I know that may be, like, kind of selfish a little bit.
[30:41.700 --> 30:46.480] [SPEAKER_09]: But, and then I also look at, like, well, what did I do in light of it?
[30:46.480 --> 30:52.740] [SPEAKER_09]: And it honestly made it incredibly impossible to look at a school as, like, fun.
[30:52.900 --> 30:54.200] [SPEAKER_09]: It made it impossible to think.
[30:54.380 --> 31:03.420] [SPEAKER_09]: I was already kind of tangled up and making probably just, you know, all the right mistakes for a college student.
[31:03.460 --> 31:05.320] [SPEAKER_09]: So I had a lot going against me.
[31:05.400 --> 31:08.840] [SPEAKER_09]: But I had a lot of support as well.
[31:09.180 --> 31:12.200] [SPEAKER_09]: But it was incredibly hard to think throughout that year.
[31:12.200 --> 31:16.740] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm not an exceptional scholar in the first place.
[31:16.920 --> 31:22.800] [SPEAKER_09]: So maintaining, like, just my ultimate path was not there at that institution.
[31:22.800 --> 31:24.380] [SPEAKER_09]: I moved around a little bit.
[31:24.480 --> 31:33.120] [SPEAKER_09]: I found my own way through it all, which is, I think, a positive that I might have made of it or that came out of it.
[31:33.120 --> 31:42.020] [SPEAKER_09]: But it itself, like I said, peppered every bit of how I looked at what I would do.
[31:42.100 --> 31:44.180] [SPEAKER_09]: And it was sobering.
[31:44.280 --> 31:55.000] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, I had to really grow up quickly from that initial kind of naivete going into higher education.
[31:55.000 --> 32:05.540] [SPEAKER_09]: So it was a real rude awakening for me and just is instructive with so many of the choices, good or bad, that I've made and the way I've thought about the world.
[32:05.680 --> 32:15.460] [SPEAKER_09]: And even my kind of skepticism about stuff today or just, like, my tolerance for stuff that then I would have protested.
[32:15.540 --> 32:21.640] [SPEAKER_09]: Now I'm just like, well, it's more of, like, you know, I've fought this over and over again.
[32:21.640 --> 32:28.520] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, I'm a different person now through the other side of it, if any of that makes sense.
[32:28.680 --> 32:29.600] [SPEAKER_09]: But I don't know.
[32:29.740 --> 32:32.160] [SPEAKER_09]: It's hard to put into words.
[32:32.740 --> 32:34.300] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you did it beautifully.
[32:34.580 --> 32:34.900] [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you.
[32:35.400 --> 32:35.620] [SPEAKER_14]: Gila.
[32:36.740 --> 32:44.800] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's apt that I'm sharing my story last because mine is not a New York story.
[32:45.600 --> 32:48.200] [SPEAKER_00]: Mine is not even a Chicago story.
[32:48.860 --> 32:52.040] [SPEAKER_00]: I was living on the West Coast at the time.
[32:52.040 --> 32:59.380] [SPEAKER_00]: I was a senior in college, and I was also living in a large city and going to a religiously oriented college.
[32:59.900 --> 33:01.320] [SPEAKER_00]: I was a senior.
[33:02.220 --> 33:08.480] [SPEAKER_00]: And my phone rang at 6.15, 6.30 in the morning.
[33:09.780 --> 33:11.700] [SPEAKER_00]: And I answered the phone.
[33:11.700 --> 33:14.080] [SPEAKER_00]: I should mention I'm a very sound sleeper.
[33:14.260 --> 33:16.140] [SPEAKER_00]: That is actually relevant to the story.
[33:16.140 --> 33:20.880] [SPEAKER_00]: My phone rang, and I said, who's calling me?
[33:21.060 --> 33:21.680] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was my mother.
[33:21.680 --> 33:24.340] [SPEAKER_00]: And she said, are you watching TV?
[33:24.340 --> 33:27.180] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, no, I was asleep.
[33:27.460 --> 33:29.920] [SPEAKER_00]: And she said, you need to turn on the TV.
[33:29.920 --> 33:32.600] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, I was sleeping.
[33:32.600 --> 33:33.980] [SPEAKER_00]: Why do I need to turn on the TV?
[33:34.460 --> 33:38.140] [SPEAKER_00]: And she said, there's been an attack.
[33:40.820 --> 33:48.940] [SPEAKER_00]: And God forgive me, I was wondering why she was telling me about something that had happened in another country.
[33:48.940 --> 33:50.320] [SPEAKER_00]: I had no idea.
[33:50.600 --> 33:53.440] [SPEAKER_00]: It just, I could not fathom that this might be happening here.
[33:54.240 --> 33:56.200] [SPEAKER_00]: And I turned on the TV.
[33:56.520 --> 34:00.260] [SPEAKER_00]: I went down to a lounge in my dorm where I was standing around in their pajamas.
[34:03.180 --> 34:06.480] [SPEAKER_00]: Classes were canceled at my teeny tiny university.
[34:06.480 --> 34:12.020] [SPEAKER_00]: And we actually had an assembly so everybody could be together.
[34:12.020 --> 34:15.940] [SPEAKER_00]: And then on the 12th, classes were canceled again.
[34:15.940 --> 34:20.100] [SPEAKER_00]: And we had listening circles and talking circles.
[34:20.340 --> 34:29.460] [SPEAKER_00]: And there was something weird about being in California at the time.
[34:29.460 --> 34:33.360] [SPEAKER_00]: Because everything felt so far removed.
[34:34.220 --> 34:36.940] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I was on the other side of the country.
[34:37.760 --> 34:43.580] [SPEAKER_00]: And because at the time, I was adamantly anti-New York City.
[34:43.780 --> 34:45.360] [SPEAKER_00]: Never wanted to live here.
[34:45.640 --> 34:47.360] [SPEAKER_00]: Never wanted to spend much time here.
[34:47.700 --> 34:49.900] [SPEAKER_00]: Didn't know where anything was.
[34:50.560 --> 34:52.580] [SPEAKER_00]: I had no concept of where anything was.
[34:52.700 --> 34:56.280] [SPEAKER_00]: And I knew that I had some friends who were going to school here.
[34:56.280 --> 35:01.060] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was panic contacting all my friends who were up at Columbia.
[35:01.500 --> 35:02.620] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you okay?
[35:03.220 --> 35:04.020] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you...
[35:04.020 --> 35:05.120] [SPEAKER_00]: They said, we're nowhere near this.
[35:05.460 --> 35:06.440] [SPEAKER_00]: I said, okay.
[35:06.840 --> 35:08.060] [SPEAKER_00]: But I was...
[35:08.060 --> 35:09.720] [SPEAKER_00]: I had no idea.
[35:10.280 --> 35:15.680] [SPEAKER_00]: One thing, though, I distinctly remember from the listening circles on the 12th.
[35:16.300 --> 35:25.240] [SPEAKER_00]: Was saying that the thing that upset me the most beyond the loss of life.
[35:25.240 --> 35:33.680] [SPEAKER_00]: And beyond the attack itself was this idea that we didn't know where it was coming from, at least initially.
[35:34.040 --> 35:39.360] [SPEAKER_00]: That there was no place to focus the energy and the anger and the fear.
[35:41.500 --> 35:43.880] [SPEAKER_00]: It was just out in the ether.
[35:44.280 --> 35:53.440] [SPEAKER_00]: And because everybody, for the most part, I think we can say, was feeling fear and confusion and agita.
[35:53.900 --> 35:55.640] [SPEAKER_00]: And there was no place to put it.
[35:55.720 --> 35:58.440] [SPEAKER_00]: So it just felt like everybody was very silent.
[35:58.440 --> 35:59.860] [SPEAKER_00]: And I...
[36:01.580 --> 36:03.660] [SPEAKER_00]: My friends and I were supposed to go see a movie.
[36:03.820 --> 36:06.320] [SPEAKER_00]: We had plans to go see a movie that night.
[36:07.440 --> 36:11.940] [SPEAKER_00]: We were supposed to go see Wet Hot American Summer, actually, which we'd heard about this movie.
[36:12.040 --> 36:13.480] [SPEAKER_00]: It was only playing in small theaters.
[36:13.480 --> 36:14.140] [SPEAKER_00]: We were ready.
[36:14.300 --> 36:14.860] [SPEAKER_00]: It was great.
[36:14.860 --> 36:17.460] [SPEAKER_00]: And all the movie theaters were closed.
[36:18.760 --> 36:29.040] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember a friend of mine saying she was terrified because they're going to get us next.
[36:30.180 --> 36:32.080] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, excuse me.
[36:32.800 --> 36:34.840] [SPEAKER_00]: I understand you're scared.
[36:36.100 --> 36:38.380] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very frightening thing that happened.
[36:38.380 --> 36:43.880] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, but people in the city where we are don't know where this school is.
[36:44.240 --> 36:47.800] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think international terrorists are coming to find us.
[36:51.400 --> 36:55.660] [SPEAKER_00]: But that Sunday, I had to fly.
[36:56.100 --> 36:58.660] [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to Texas.
[36:58.660 --> 37:00.140] [SPEAKER_00]: I was at the airport.
[37:03.040 --> 37:08.060] [SPEAKER_00]: I was at the airport for about three hours getting through security.
[37:09.140 --> 37:16.240] [SPEAKER_00]: And that day, it didn't feel like the security theater that it is now.
[37:17.900 --> 37:21.860] [SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't mind having this experience.
[37:21.860 --> 37:29.280] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't mind that we were literally standing in line for three hours to go get on an airplane.
[37:29.880 --> 37:36.060] [SPEAKER_00]: Because we were all trying to figure out what things were going to look like afterward.
[37:36.060 --> 37:39.400] [SPEAKER_00]: We were allowed to keep our shoes on at that point.
[37:40.860 --> 37:41.420] [SPEAKER_00]: But...
[37:41.980 --> 37:48.420] [SPEAKER_00]: And then this idea that when anything happens now, we have to clarify where it came from.
[37:49.660 --> 37:51.540] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a fascinating aftermath, I think.
[37:53.220 --> 37:56.520] [SPEAKER_00]: Last week, I was in my office.
[37:57.300 --> 38:03.580] [SPEAKER_00]: And my boss said that she got a Google alert about a flight that had been diverted.
[38:04.360 --> 38:09.220] [SPEAKER_00]: Diverted to JFK because a passenger had a health issue that turned out to be diarrhea.
[38:10.140 --> 38:13.800] [SPEAKER_00]: And she said, why does the world need to know that?
[38:14.840 --> 38:16.600] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, it's unfortunate.
[38:16.600 --> 38:18.180] [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel for the person.
[38:18.360 --> 38:19.140] [SPEAKER_00]: I feel terrible.
[38:20.460 --> 38:26.020] [SPEAKER_00]: But the fact that it needed to be clarified that there was a health issue, but it wasn't COVID.
[38:26.360 --> 38:28.520] [SPEAKER_00]: This entire flight was not about to come down with COVID.
[38:28.940 --> 38:31.040] [SPEAKER_00]: No one was dead on the plane.
[38:31.460 --> 38:33.460] [SPEAKER_00]: No one had punched a flight attendant.
[38:33.460 --> 38:35.160] [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't, it wasn't terrorism.
[38:35.440 --> 38:36.680] [SPEAKER_00]: The plane wasn't broken.
[38:36.680 --> 38:38.280] [SPEAKER_00]: This was just old-fashioned diarrhea.
[38:38.740 --> 38:44.640] [SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that whatever happens, the first thing that has to be said is, we don't think it's terrorism.
[38:45.560 --> 38:46.440] [SPEAKER_00]: The blackout.
[38:47.820 --> 38:48.320] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
[38:49.540 --> 38:58.180] [SPEAKER_00]: It could have, whatever it is, that now that we're in this place 23 years, still 23 years later, where everything has to be, we don't think it was terrorism.
[38:58.520 --> 39:00.220] [SPEAKER_00]: We're confident it's not terrorism.
[39:01.000 --> 39:15.240] [SPEAKER_00]: I think there was some sort of fundamental shift that day where you were looking over our national shoulder in a way that we weren't before and we really have been since.
[39:17.120 --> 39:19.180] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's the thing that sticks with me the most.
[39:21.280 --> 39:21.780] [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[39:23.240 --> 39:24.140] [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you for that.
[39:24.280 --> 39:27.180] [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you all for your recollections.
[39:27.180 --> 39:32.060] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, we're all New Yorkers in one way or another.
[39:33.740 --> 39:37.540] [SPEAKER_14]: And I think everybody listening is a New Yorker in one sense or another.
[39:38.720 --> 39:39.880] [SPEAKER_14]: We all have stories.
[39:39.880 --> 39:43.580] [SPEAKER_14]: And I encourage people to reach out to each other.
[39:43.780 --> 39:44.560] [SPEAKER_14]: Listen to the stories.
[39:44.900 --> 39:46.500] [SPEAKER_14]: There is nobody who is not touched by this.
[39:46.560 --> 39:48.060] [SPEAKER_14]: Of course, if you weren't born yet, obviously.
[39:48.060 --> 40:00.900] [SPEAKER_14]: But the people who were around then and sentient, they all have different perspectives, different ways of looking at this traumatic and historic event that took place 23 years.
[40:01.000 --> 40:03.260] [SPEAKER_14]: I can't believe it was 23 years ago tonight.
[40:03.260 --> 40:08.160] [SPEAKER_14]: We've done two other shows on September 11th.
[40:08.160 --> 40:13.440] [SPEAKER_14]: We were supposed to do one on September 11th, 2001, but the station was off the air.
[40:14.200 --> 40:16.140] [SPEAKER_14]: So this is the third time we've done that.
[40:16.220 --> 40:20.640] [SPEAKER_14]: And I think it's the most thoroughly we've thought back on it.
[40:20.800 --> 40:26.680] [SPEAKER_14]: I'd like to give listeners the opportunity as well on Overtime, which follows this program on YouTube.
[40:28.200 --> 40:33.660] [SPEAKER_14]: You can call up and tell us your recollections, starting at 8 o'clock.
[40:33.840 --> 40:35.240] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm going to do something unusual.
[40:35.440 --> 40:38.920] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm going to give out the phone number on this show, which we don't usually do.
[40:41.000 --> 40:43.120] [SPEAKER_14]: And the phone right now is off the hook.
[40:43.820 --> 40:51.700] [SPEAKER_14]: In case there's any wiseacres out there that want to call now, the phone number, write it down and call us after 8 o'clock p.m.
[40:51.940 --> 40:52.440] [SPEAKER_14]: Eastern Time.
[40:52.440 --> 40:55.780] [SPEAKER_14]: Again, it's 8-0-2-3-2-1-4-2-2-5.
[40:55.940 --> 40:58.720] [SPEAKER_14]: That's 8-0-2-3-2-1-HACK is what that spells.
[41:00.700 --> 41:04.600] [SPEAKER_14]: And, yeah, if you have a story to tell, please keep it short.
[41:05.900 --> 41:12.140] [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, not too short, but keep in mind there's probably a lot of people that want to call in as well.
[41:12.960 --> 41:13.840] [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, Alex, go ahead.
[41:17.080 --> 41:18.320] [SPEAKER_14]: Alex, once again, you're muted.
[41:20.140 --> 41:20.500] [SPEAKER_10]: Really?
[41:21.140 --> 41:21.840] [SPEAKER_10]: Aye, aye, aye.
[41:22.260 --> 41:23.220] [SPEAKER_10]: All right, you know what?
[41:25.560 --> 41:26.000] [SPEAKER_14]: What?
[41:27.180 --> 41:27.980] [SPEAKER_14]: Talk to us.
[41:28.660 --> 41:30.100] [SPEAKER_10]: Can you hear me now?
[41:30.200 --> 41:30.400] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[41:30.460 --> 41:33.360] [SPEAKER_14]: Your mouth was moving and nothing was coming out, so I assumed you were muted.
[41:33.660 --> 41:35.740] [SPEAKER_10]: It's probably faded a bit now, though.
[41:35.980 --> 41:37.320] [SPEAKER_10]: Are the levels worse now?
[41:37.500 --> 41:39.240] [SPEAKER_14]: For God's sake, Alex, tell us what you want to say.
[41:39.740 --> 41:40.040] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[41:40.940 --> 41:44.580] [SPEAKER_10]: One of the things that always stuck out to me was the...
[41:45.140 --> 41:52.280] [SPEAKER_10]: I think about this every year, too, was that the New Yorker Halloween edition of the New Yorker.
[41:52.280 --> 41:55.460] [SPEAKER_10]: And you know how they have different covers every week that were always fascinating.
[41:55.840 --> 42:02.360] [SPEAKER_10]: The Halloween edition of the New Yorker in 2001, I think about it and I choke up every time.
[42:02.540 --> 42:10.080] [SPEAKER_10]: Because you remember that, you know, it was a totally different world back then when September 11th happened.
[42:10.080 --> 42:15.880] [SPEAKER_10]: And our policemen and our firemen were our heroes back then.
[42:16.060 --> 42:23.200] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, these were the people that were going down into the rubble and removing bodies and looking for survivors and the police dogs.
[42:23.200 --> 42:28.480] [SPEAKER_10]: And you remember seeing the images of these firemen coming back entirely covered in soot.
[42:28.980 --> 42:34.480] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, the only portion of them not covered in soot was under their eyes from the tears.
[42:35.060 --> 42:37.680] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, it was an incredibly moving thing.
[42:37.820 --> 42:44.320] [SPEAKER_10]: And this cover of the New Yorker has a scene of kids either in Brooklyn or it looks like the West Village.
[42:44.320 --> 42:46.480] [SPEAKER_10]: They're in front of some brownstones or something like that.
[42:46.480 --> 42:54.180] [SPEAKER_10]: It's obviously a New York scene and every single kid is dressed up as a policeman or fireman in that Halloween cover.
[42:54.520 --> 42:58.240] [SPEAKER_10]: And it's really moving to look at it and think back at it at that time.
[42:58.320 --> 43:05.160] [SPEAKER_14]: I remember the season premiere of Saturday Night Live back then where the firemen were on stage.
[43:05.940 --> 43:07.920] [SPEAKER_14]: And, in fact, Giuliani was even there.
[43:08.020 --> 43:12.220] [SPEAKER_14]: That was back when people thought Giuliani was capable of doing some good.
[43:12.220 --> 43:19.420] [SPEAKER_14]: And I even praised him on the air of this station, which is something that, believe me, is a one-offer.
[43:20.920 --> 43:25.120] [SPEAKER_14]: But he, at the time, seemed to be a comforting figure.
[43:25.520 --> 43:27.460] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, America's mayor, I think he was called.
[43:27.640 --> 43:30.880] [SPEAKER_14]: But I remember he was there at the opening of SNL.
[43:31.040 --> 43:36.400] [SPEAKER_14]: And one of the cast members asked him, so can we be funny now?
[43:36.400 --> 43:42.800] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, and he said, sure, try something new, which, you know, it's the laugh we needed back then.
[43:44.420 --> 43:44.940] [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[43:46.480 --> 43:47.660] [SPEAKER_14]: Enough recollection, I guess.
[43:48.220 --> 43:49.160] [SPEAKER_14]: We have to look forward.
[43:50.180 --> 43:51.920] [SPEAKER_14]: One thing I just want to conclude with.
[43:52.560 --> 44:09.940] [SPEAKER_14]: I remember, I don't know if it was on this station or another station or another show or just a private conversation, but I remember it being brought up that this horrible event was also a tremendous opportunity for the world to come together and unite against evil,
[44:10.400 --> 44:14.740] [SPEAKER_14]: against injustice, to make sure something like this never happened again.
[44:14.860 --> 44:15.900] [SPEAKER_14]: And boy, did we blow that.
[44:16.280 --> 44:18.960] [SPEAKER_14]: Boy, did we make it as bad as we possibly could make it.
[44:20.280 --> 44:29.480] [SPEAKER_14]: TSA, PATRIOT Act, all kinds of military actions, countless lives lost for no good reason.
[44:29.960 --> 44:32.740] [SPEAKER_14]: But that's how things go sometimes.
[44:33.340 --> 44:34.000] [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[44:34.460 --> 44:39.620] [SPEAKER_14]: We have only a few minutes left, but we should talk about some other things that are happening.
[44:39.800 --> 44:50.080] [SPEAKER_14]: We spent a lot of last week talking about Elon Musk and what has become of Twitter and his war with Brazil, which I think is still ongoing.
[44:50.080 --> 44:51.780] [SPEAKER_14]: I haven't really heard much about it.
[44:51.900 --> 44:56.340] [SPEAKER_14]: I haven't really been paying much attention to anything he says, with one exception.
[44:57.460 --> 45:03.880] [SPEAKER_14]: Last night, you might recall, there was another event where every channel was broadcasting something.
[45:04.100 --> 45:08.080] [SPEAKER_14]: It was an ass-whooping from Pennsylvania.
[45:10.340 --> 45:15.560] [SPEAKER_14]: And apparently, Elon Musk is once again getting called out.
[45:15.560 --> 45:18.400] [SPEAKER_14]: And this is really disgusting, creepy.
[45:18.800 --> 45:26.080] [SPEAKER_14]: A comment he made to Taylor Swift after she publicly endorsed Kamala Harris for president.
[45:26.860 --> 45:31.860] [SPEAKER_14]: He took to Twitter and said, fine, Taylor, you win.
[45:32.300 --> 45:36.400] [SPEAKER_14]: I will give you a child and guard your cats with my life.
[45:37.760 --> 45:42.860] [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, how inappropriate, how creepy can you possibly get?
[45:43.300 --> 45:49.380] [SPEAKER_14]: And this guy is running a major platform, sending people to space.
[45:51.200 --> 45:53.700] [SPEAKER_14]: It's really... it disturbs me.
[45:54.840 --> 45:56.160] [SPEAKER_14]: It disturbs me so much.
[45:56.160 --> 45:56.720] [SPEAKER_14]: You know what I'm going to do?
[45:56.840 --> 46:07.160] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm going to report this account right now, if I can figure out how to do it on Twitter, and report Elon Musk to Twitter as being inappropriate.
[46:11.220 --> 46:13.100] [SPEAKER_14]: You all can tell me not to.
[46:14.900 --> 46:16.560] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I say go for it.
[46:16.660 --> 46:17.900] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's see what happens there.
[46:18.420 --> 46:18.560] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[46:20.640 --> 46:21.200] So...
[46:21.200 --> 46:24.000] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's just a bizarre story.
[46:24.140 --> 46:25.520] [SPEAKER_10]: I did not know that, Emmanuel.
[46:25.680 --> 46:29.220] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think there has been any developments on the Brazilian front, either.
[46:30.400 --> 46:32.020] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, I'm reporting the post.
[46:32.480 --> 46:34.640] [SPEAKER_14]: It asks me, what type of issue am I reporting?
[46:34.780 --> 46:48.200] [SPEAKER_14]: Hate, abuse and harassment, violent speech, child safety, privacy, spam, suicide or self-harm, sensitive or disturbing media, impersonation, or violent and hateful entities.
[46:48.280 --> 46:49.740] [SPEAKER_14]: And I think I can only choose one of those.
[46:49.900 --> 46:51.860] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm going to go for abuse and harassment.
[46:52.040 --> 46:53.520] [SPEAKER_14]: Does everybody agree that's the right one?
[46:54.400 --> 46:54.920] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[46:54.920 --> 46:56.100] [SPEAKER_00]: I do think that's fair.
[46:56.100 --> 46:59.280] [SPEAKER_00]: However, Emmanuel, are you still...
[46:59.280 --> 47:00.900] [SPEAKER_00]: do you still have a Twitter account?
[47:01.100 --> 47:01.360] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, yeah.
[47:01.540 --> 47:02.000] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, absolutely.
[47:02.660 --> 47:03.640] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you still use it?
[47:03.760 --> 47:06.880] [SPEAKER_14]: How else do I harass my various elected officials?
[47:08.160 --> 47:12.900] [SPEAKER_00]: I will be curious to see what happens after you submit this report.
[47:13.220 --> 47:14.700] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, let's see.
[47:14.920 --> 47:19.020] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, so under abuse and harassment now, I have some choices of the best match.
[47:20.060 --> 47:22.700] [SPEAKER_14]: Unwanted NSFW and graphic content.
[47:23.220 --> 47:24.500] [SPEAKER_14]: NSFW, not safe for work.
[47:25.100 --> 47:26.200] [SPEAKER_14]: Targeted harassment.
[47:27.480 --> 47:30.000] [SPEAKER_14]: I think that's kind of the lead right now.
[47:30.540 --> 47:34.120] [SPEAKER_14]: Insults, unwanted sexual content and graphic objectification.
[47:34.300 --> 47:35.360] [SPEAKER_14]: I'll go for that one.
[47:36.200 --> 47:38.920] [SPEAKER_14]: Violent event denial or inciting harassment.
[47:39.100 --> 47:43.240] [SPEAKER_14]: I think the unwanted sexual content is definitely the one to choose there.
[47:43.420 --> 47:44.300] [SPEAKER_14]: And I'm submitting.
[47:44.980 --> 47:48.540] [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for making X, helping make X better for everyone.
[47:48.540 --> 47:51.340] [SPEAKER_14]: One, I have reported Elon Musk's post.
[47:51.480 --> 47:52.920] [SPEAKER_14]: Not Elon Musk, the account.
[47:53.160 --> 47:53.860] [SPEAKER_14]: I'll do that next.
[47:53.980 --> 47:54.940] [SPEAKER_14]: But the post.
[47:55.060 --> 47:55.540] [SPEAKER_14]: I feel good.
[47:55.620 --> 47:56.400] [SPEAKER_14]: I feel good about this.
[47:56.900 --> 47:58.060] [SPEAKER_14]: Everybody should do the same thing.
[47:58.780 --> 48:02.020] [SPEAKER_14]: Of course, that means tracking down his horrible post in the first place.
[48:02.120 --> 48:06.720] [SPEAKER_14]: But sometimes you have to get a little bit dirty to get justice.
[48:08.200 --> 48:13.200] [SPEAKER_14]: One other thing, and I think we'll talk about this on overtime because we're kind of out of time now.
[48:13.340 --> 48:17.960] [SPEAKER_14]: But there was a fascinating story last week about a U.S.
[48:18.100 --> 48:28.120] [SPEAKER_14]: media company that turns out is accused, alleged to have been funded by Russia, linked to some right-wing social media stars.
[48:29.380 --> 48:33.040] [SPEAKER_14]: And the company is known as Tenet Media.
[48:34.100 --> 48:35.320] [SPEAKER_14]: You guys hear about this story?
[48:35.440 --> 48:37.540] [SPEAKER_14]: It's really kind of disturbing.
[48:38.200 --> 48:38.940] [SPEAKER_10]: Fascinating.
[48:40.620 --> 48:41.500] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[48:42.360 --> 48:43.200] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[48:43.920 --> 48:45.340] [SPEAKER_09]: Emphatically, yes.
[48:46.680 --> 48:53.400] [SPEAKER_09]: This is a kind of thing I think we all are kind of...
[48:53.400 --> 49:04.080] [SPEAKER_09]: We should be sensitive to, be aware of when you're endorsing things and doing things for cash.
[49:05.040 --> 49:17.040] [SPEAKER_09]: You should investigate and find out about the ownership, especially if there are fictitious benefactors or people that are sponsoring it.
[49:17.780 --> 49:23.980] [SPEAKER_09]: But the people who were accused of this alleged thing are feigning ignorance.
[49:23.980 --> 49:24.860] [SPEAKER_14]: I just found their names.
[49:25.020 --> 49:26.580] [SPEAKER_14]: I was searching for the names in the whole story.
[49:27.040 --> 49:30.240] [SPEAKER_14]: Benny Johnson, Tim Pool, and Dave Rubin.
[49:30.440 --> 49:34.140] [SPEAKER_14]: Tim Pool, by the way, has been on this show many years ago.
[49:34.540 --> 49:35.400] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sorry.
[49:35.820 --> 49:38.100] [SPEAKER_14]: I fell for what he was saying.
[49:38.100 --> 49:40.220] [SPEAKER_14]: It seemed like he was fair-minded at the time.
[49:40.460 --> 49:41.040] [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe he was.
[49:41.200 --> 49:41.960] [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe he was.
[49:42.040 --> 49:44.700] [SPEAKER_14]: He hadn't completely bought into right-wing propaganda.
[49:45.540 --> 49:46.840] [SPEAKER_14]: But the signs were there.
[49:47.000 --> 49:52.280] [SPEAKER_14]: The signs were there, just like the signs with Elon Musk were there before he went totally wacko.
[49:52.840 --> 49:57.380] [SPEAKER_14]: But in this particular case, as Carl said, yeah, they're claiming they're the victims, that they didn't know.
[49:57.540 --> 50:00.900] [SPEAKER_14]: They were getting, what is it, how much money per video?
[50:01.360 --> 50:02.960] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, there are different arrangements.
[50:03.240 --> 50:06.400] [SPEAKER_09]: One was $100,000 a post.
[50:06.580 --> 50:13.700] [SPEAKER_09]: There was others that were sort of a salaried situation where there was like $400,000 a month or something.
[50:13.700 --> 50:15.980] [SPEAKER_09]: There was different criteria, different arrangements.
[50:15.980 --> 50:17.640] [SPEAKER_14]: And they didn't ask where the money was coming from.
[50:17.720 --> 50:19.960] [SPEAKER_09]: In some cases, they asked a little bit.
[50:20.460 --> 50:22.540] [SPEAKER_09]: Others, there weren't any questions asked.
[50:22.600 --> 50:24.900] [SPEAKER_09]: And they were to basically keep doing what they're doing.
[50:25.020 --> 50:28.340] [SPEAKER_09]: And that's the way this kind of thing is done.
[50:28.340 --> 50:33.640] [SPEAKER_09]: You have people that are already sort of useful, and you just want to make them more useful to you.
[50:33.640 --> 50:50.740] [SPEAKER_09]: And it is in the interest of state actors and large entities on the global stage that will want to amplify that because it benefits their strategic interests.
[50:51.720 --> 51:08.300] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think that a lot of what we have noticed in hacking over the years is that there are shells of shells of shells in the darker parts of the web, and you need to understand that.
[51:08.300 --> 51:11.840] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think that's something we talk about when we're educating people that are new.
[51:12.060 --> 51:21.300] [SPEAKER_09]: They need to know that they could quickly become affiliated with something that is connected to these types of things in ways they might not understand.
[51:21.420 --> 51:25.100] [SPEAKER_14]: We're going to have to continue this conversation on overtime as we are out of time now.
[51:25.220 --> 51:26.920] [SPEAKER_14]: Please support WBAI.
[51:27.140 --> 51:28.960] [SPEAKER_14]: give2wbai.org.
[51:29.120 --> 51:30.860] [SPEAKER_14]: Give the number to WBAI.org.
[51:31.320 --> 51:34.220] [SPEAKER_14]: Write to us, oth@2600.com.
[51:34.220 --> 51:37.140] [SPEAKER_14]: Tune in to Off The Hook next Wednesday, 7 p.m.
[51:37.320 --> 51:39.760] [SPEAKER_14]: And overtime coming up at 8 o'clock on YouTube.
[51:39.940 --> 51:44.500] [SPEAKER_14]: Follow the link on 2600.com, the main page.
[51:44.840 --> 51:46.260] [SPEAKER_14]: And we will see you there.
[51:46.520 --> 51:50.760] [SPEAKER_14]: Give us a call and tell us your stories from 9-11 if you have any.
[51:51.860 --> 51:53.220] [SPEAKER_14]: We'll see you next time.
[51:56.040 --> 51:56.680] [SPEAKER_14]: Stay free.
[52:02.700 --> 52:11.940] [SPEAKER_08]: You are somebody that I don't know But you're taking shots at me like it's Patron And I'm just like, damn It's 7 a.m.
[52:14.240 --> 52:22.980] [SPEAKER_08]: Say it in the street, that's a knockout But just say it in a tweet, that's a cop-out And I'm just like, hey Are you okay?
[52:25.080 --> 52:36.900] [SPEAKER_08]: And I ain't trying to mess with your self-expression But I've learned a lesson that's stressing and obsessing But somebody else is no fun And snakes and stones never broke my bones So
[52:51.360 --> 52:57.100] [SPEAKER_08]: you need to just stop So can you just nod?
[52:57.400 --> 53:00.060] [SPEAKER_08]: If I'm not down, you need to calm down
[53:04.770 --> 53:33.250] [SPEAKER_08]: You are somebody that we don't know But you're calling at my friends like a missile Or you're mad When you could be glad You could be glad There's sunshine on the street at the parade But you would rather be in the dark age Just making that sign Must've taken all night You just need to take several seats and then try to restore the peace and control your urges To scream about all the people you
[53:33.250 --> 53:34.050] [SPEAKER_08]: hate.
[53:35.650 --> 53:38.570] [SPEAKER_08]: Cause shade never made anybody less gay.
[53:38.990 --> 53:39.570] So it's
[53:58.810 --> 54:00.590] [SPEAKER_08]: not on his gown.
[54:00.910 --> 54:01.910] [SPEAKER_08]: You need to calm down.
[54:02.150 --> 54:04.170] [SPEAKER_08]: And we see you over there on the Internet.
[54:04.990 --> 54:07.130] [SPEAKER_08]: Comparing all the girls who are killing it.
[54:07.410 --> 54:09.090] [SPEAKER_08]: But we figured you out.
[54:09.270 --> 54:10.510] [SPEAKER_08]: We all know now.
[54:10.710 --> 54:12.050] [SPEAKER_08]: We all got crowns.
[54:12.050 --> 54:13.150] [SPEAKER_08]: You need to calm down.
[54:17.270 --> 54:18.990] [SPEAKER_08]: You need to calm down
[54:33.630 --> 54:34.690] on gowns.
[54:34.690 --> 54:36.170] [SPEAKER_08]: You need to calm down.
[54:41.740 --> 54:46.760] [SPEAKER_14]: And welcome everybody here on YouTube for Off The Hook Overtime.
[54:48.300 --> 54:49.700] [SPEAKER_14]: I made it, I think.
[54:50.000 --> 54:51.500] [SPEAKER_14]: Kyle, it looks like you made it too.
[54:52.200 --> 54:52.600] [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[54:52.860 --> 54:55.320] [SPEAKER_14]: Alright, and we're up to Firefly.
[54:55.520 --> 54:56.140] [SPEAKER_14]: Did we make it?
[54:56.220 --> 54:57.020] [SPEAKER_14]: And are we on YouTube?
[54:58.240 --> 54:59.260] [SPEAKER_01]: We made it.
[54:59.440 --> 55:01.740] [SPEAKER_01]: We are still catching up to our delay on YouTube.
[55:02.000 --> 55:02.220] [SPEAKER_01]: Alright.
[55:02.540 --> 55:03.140] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, there we are.
[55:03.140 --> 55:03.540] [SPEAKER_01]: Ah, okay.
[55:03.540 --> 55:04.280] [SPEAKER_01]: And we center it.
[55:04.520 --> 55:05.740] [SPEAKER_14]: So YouTube is delayed.
[55:05.980 --> 55:08.760] [SPEAKER_14]: And Gila, I assume you have also made it over.
[55:08.980 --> 55:10.640] [SPEAKER_00]: I have indeed, yes.
[55:10.880 --> 55:11.560] [SPEAKER_14]: And Alex?
[55:12.480 --> 55:14.280] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, barely here, but I'm here.
[55:14.500 --> 55:15.140] [SPEAKER_14]: Barely here.
[55:15.240 --> 55:17.800] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, well, it's good everybody is here.
[55:17.800 --> 55:19.040] [SPEAKER_14]: I just want to thank you all.
[55:19.200 --> 55:23.660] [SPEAKER_14]: You all told such interesting, moving stories.
[55:24.200 --> 55:26.600] [SPEAKER_14]: And that's why we do this.
[55:26.680 --> 55:34.020] [SPEAKER_14]: So we can share our accounts, our observations, our theories, our thoughts.
[55:34.580 --> 55:38.300] [SPEAKER_14]: And you all did a really amazing job on that.
[55:38.440 --> 55:39.480] [SPEAKER_14]: And a very difficult subject.
[55:41.660 --> 55:44.160] [SPEAKER_14]: And now, opening up the phone lines for listeners.
[55:44.860 --> 55:46.280] [SPEAKER_14]: 802-321-4225.
[55:46.620 --> 55:52.140] [SPEAKER_14]: We gave the number out on the air, so there's going to be extra competition for those people.
[55:52.140 --> 55:52.860] [SPEAKER_14]: We already have a phone call.
[55:52.880 --> 55:54.900] [SPEAKER_14]: Usually, we already have a phone call, right?
[55:54.960 --> 55:55.060] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[55:55.740 --> 55:56.680] [SPEAKER_14]: I'll say good evening.
[55:56.840 --> 55:57.920] [SPEAKER_14]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[55:57.980 --> 55:58.200] [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead.
[56:00.720 --> 56:01.380] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[56:01.520 --> 56:02.040] [SPEAKER_14]: Hold on, hold on.
[56:02.060 --> 56:02.760] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm going to do that again.
[56:02.760 --> 56:04.340] [SPEAKER_14]: I messed up.
[56:04.440 --> 56:05.200] [SPEAKER_14]: I didn't press the right button.
[56:05.340 --> 56:06.560] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm going to say good evening.
[56:06.640 --> 56:08.300] [SPEAKER_14]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[56:09.180 --> 56:09.620] [SPEAKER_05]: Hi.
[56:09.760 --> 56:10.640] [SPEAKER_05]: Can you guys hear me?
[56:10.820 --> 56:11.360] [SPEAKER_14]: We hear you.
[56:12.140 --> 56:12.320] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[56:12.460 --> 56:13.800] [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for doing the tribute.
[56:14.080 --> 56:15.460] [SPEAKER_05]: I really appreciate it.
[56:16.120 --> 56:20.140] [SPEAKER_05]: It's the kind of thing that your memories are very good.
[56:21.060 --> 56:27.640] [SPEAKER_05]: I wish I'd kept a diary or something, you know, because obviously it's a lot of years have gone by.
[56:27.640 --> 56:35.020] [SPEAKER_05]: But I do recall I worked for a company in Midtown, and it was in a skyscraper.
[56:35.180 --> 56:56.500] [SPEAKER_05]: And for several weeks after the attacks, we had to have a bag check before we entered the building, which obviously I, you know, was never expected that there'd come a time that there'd be some type of horrific incident that would require me to have my bag checked by security before I entered the building.
[56:56.500 --> 56:57.880] [SPEAKER_05]: So that was pretty weird.
[56:58.160 --> 56:58.440] Mm-hmm.
[56:59.520 --> 57:14.160] [SPEAKER_05]: And also, I remember, I forget how long it was, but it seems to me that it must have been like, I think, a week of programming on television where they had no commercial breaks.
[57:14.160 --> 57:20.940] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if any of you guys remember that, but I was watching, you know, the local channels, 247.
[57:21.260 --> 57:21.520] [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[57:21.880 --> 57:34.900] [SPEAKER_05]: And it seemed to me that I think it might have been like at least five or six days where it was just straight reporting where they didn't go to commercial break.
[57:34.900 --> 57:36.860] [SPEAKER_05]: And I was like, that was pretty weird.
[57:37.120 --> 57:38.920] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you guys remember that?
[57:39.160 --> 57:41.620] [SPEAKER_05]: That was just around-the-clock news coverage.
[57:41.740 --> 57:41.860] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[57:42.020 --> 57:45.640] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, who could break for a commercial in a crisis like that?
[57:46.400 --> 57:54.460] [SPEAKER_14]: Not only were the news networks, the cable news networks going, but local channels as well, because, yeah, it was New York.
[57:54.460 --> 58:13.520] [SPEAKER_14]: And I think pretty much every real TV station, and when I say real TV station, I mean, you know, not what Channel 31 turned into, you know, which is an all, I don't know, cop show channel.
[58:13.800 --> 58:15.800] [SPEAKER_14]: Not what Channel 9 has become.
[58:16.000 --> 58:17.040] [SPEAKER_14]: They used to have news.
[58:17.040 --> 58:17.820] [SPEAKER_14]: They have nothing now.
[58:18.180 --> 58:18.640] [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[58:18.640 --> 58:19.960] [SPEAKER_14]: But the other ones, yeah, certainly.
[58:20.740 --> 58:21.080] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[58:21.240 --> 58:22.360] [SPEAKER_14]: Wall-to-wall coverage.
[58:23.100 --> 58:44.640] [SPEAKER_05]: And I gotta say, I, you know, I'm glad how the debate turned out yesterday, but I really, it bothers me that they had to do it right before, the day before 9-11, because I really would have liked to have had like a day of recollection that, you know, obviously all the cable channels,
[58:44.640 --> 58:46.860] [SPEAKER_05]: it's wall-to-wall coverage of the debate.
[58:46.860 --> 58:54.520] [SPEAKER_05]: And nobody's even talking, they didn't even spend 30, maybe spent 30 seconds about the anniversary.
[58:54.660 --> 58:55.640] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's what they did today.
[58:55.820 --> 58:57.860] [SPEAKER_14]: Today, they certainly did that.
[58:58.060 --> 59:05.260] [SPEAKER_14]: But yeah, I hear, but you know, one thing that I was kind of surprised at during the debate was that they didn't pander to 9-11.
[59:05.600 --> 59:07.080] [SPEAKER_14]: Neither one did, really.
[59:07.220 --> 59:12.640] [SPEAKER_14]: I was expecting them to be, you know, I'm a supporter of the 9-11 families more than you are.
[59:12.640 --> 59:14.740] [SPEAKER_14]: It wasn't even brought up, I don't think.
[59:15.800 --> 59:16.920] [SPEAKER_05]: No, it wasn't.
[59:17.040 --> 59:25.020] [SPEAKER_05]: But I just feel, I remember last week, you guys said you were going to do this, you were promoting this week's show.
[59:25.020 --> 59:31.160] [SPEAKER_05]: And I was thinking to myself, Gore Vidal once said that we're the United States of amnesia.
[59:31.300 --> 59:47.440] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think asking people for their recollections, I think, unfortunately, for many Americans, and even many New Yorkers, this is like asking people for their recollections of the battles of Lexington and Concord, that it's just totally alien to them.
[59:47.440 --> 59:56.800] [SPEAKER_05]: And it really, it does bother me that there's, we haven't really found a way to preserve, preserve memories of this thing.
[59:56.920 --> 59:58.320] [SPEAKER_05]: It just kind of bothers me.
[59:58.420 --> 01:00:08.500] [SPEAKER_05]: I think in a couple of years, they won't even read the names, or if they read the names of the victims, they won't even cover it on the radio or on TV.
[01:00:08.500 --> 01:00:14.920] [SPEAKER_05]: It just kind of, I mean, people don't even remember January 6th or the COVID lockdown.
[01:00:14.920 --> 01:00:16.920] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, I think people remember January 6th.
[01:00:17.200 --> 01:00:19.100] [SPEAKER_14]: I think we've seen evidence of that.
[01:00:19.700 --> 01:00:23.460] [SPEAKER_05]: No, but I mean, Trump has not faced the consequences.
[01:00:23.580 --> 01:00:24.640] [SPEAKER_05]: No, that's certainly true.
[01:00:25.300 --> 01:00:30.160] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, he has a 50-50 chance of becoming president, even though he inspired an insurrection.
[01:00:30.240 --> 01:00:35.580] [SPEAKER_05]: And that should cause us a lot of grief, or, you know, cause us to pause.
[01:00:35.580 --> 01:00:38.240] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, the us is the problem.
[01:00:38.500 --> 01:00:41.560] [SPEAKER_14]: It's what's wrong with us, because right now it's in the hands of the people.
[01:00:41.720 --> 01:00:48.760] [SPEAKER_14]: And if the people actually elect someone like that, then, you know, you can't say media, you can't say politicians.
[01:00:48.780 --> 01:00:51.160] [SPEAKER_14]: You got to look at the people and say, what's wrong with you?
[01:00:52.140 --> 01:00:52.480] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[01:00:52.800 --> 01:00:57.080] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I sent you guys a link to this great documentary, if you haven't seen it.
[01:00:57.180 --> 01:01:03.740] [SPEAKER_05]: These two French brothers, documentary filmmakers, filmed a New York City firehouse.
[01:01:03.740 --> 01:01:04.040] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[01:01:04.380 --> 01:01:06.520] [SPEAKER_14]: That was actually aired on CBS, I believe.
[01:01:07.340 --> 01:01:07.940] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.
[01:01:08.060 --> 01:01:12.380] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, if you haven't seen it in a while, I mean, it's definitely worth re-watching.
[01:01:12.600 --> 01:01:12.760] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[01:01:13.080 --> 01:01:16.280] [SPEAKER_05]: So, thanks for doing this, and keep up the great work.
[01:01:16.340 --> 01:01:16.600] [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you.
[01:01:16.660 --> 01:01:17.500] [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you for your call.
[01:01:17.840 --> 01:01:18.280] [SPEAKER_14]: Take care.
[01:01:19.360 --> 01:01:22.880] [SPEAKER_14]: And our phone number, 802-321-4225.
[01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:28.180] [SPEAKER_14]: If anyone has any stories of 9-11 they wish to tell us, or anything else, really.
[01:01:28.260 --> 01:01:28.620] [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, Alex?
[01:01:30.100 --> 01:01:31.560] [SPEAKER_10]: What was the documentary?
[01:01:31.900 --> 01:01:34.200] [SPEAKER_10]: I didn't get the gist of it, or the reference.
[01:01:34.260 --> 01:01:44.200] [SPEAKER_14]: It was a documentary that these French filmmakers were making about New York City firehouses, and they were making it on September 11th, when all hell broke loose.
[01:01:44.200 --> 01:01:46.220] [SPEAKER_14]: So, they got remarkable footage.
[01:01:47.140 --> 01:01:50.880] [SPEAKER_14]: And it didn't air for a while because of the language that was in it.
[01:01:51.020 --> 01:01:51.660] [SPEAKER_14]: I don't mean French.
[01:01:51.780 --> 01:01:54.300] [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, you know, four-letter words and things like that.
[01:01:54.460 --> 01:01:59.440] [SPEAKER_14]: So, once CBS was able to get past that, they aired it on TV.
[01:01:59.440 --> 01:01:59.980] [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead, Gia.
[01:02:02.200 --> 01:02:09.400] [SPEAKER_00]: We, in the chat, did mention to folks that we are inviting people to share their stories with us.
[01:02:09.400 --> 01:02:11.240] [SPEAKER_00]: I said, you know, call in if you can.
[01:02:11.440 --> 01:02:18.940] [SPEAKER_00]: If you can't, if you can't get through, or you'd feel more comfortable sharing it via text, you're absolutely welcome to put them in the chat.
[01:02:19.020 --> 01:02:26.660] [SPEAKER_00]: We've already got one from a listener named Larry, who says, on 9-11, I was working in an FAA building in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
[01:02:26.660 --> 01:02:31.360] [SPEAKER_00]: We watched the traces on the air traffic control network as all the other flights were grounded.
[01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:34.680] [SPEAKER_00]: Every TV was on CNN watching it unfold.
[01:02:34.940 --> 01:02:38.600] [SPEAKER_00]: We evacuated early, along with most of the rest of Boston.
[01:02:39.980 --> 01:02:40.580] [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[01:02:41.080 --> 01:02:43.040] [SPEAKER_14]: Good recollection there.
[01:02:43.700 --> 01:02:49.820] [SPEAKER_09]: I think something that came to mind is how different technology was at the time.
[01:02:50.160 --> 01:02:56.120] [SPEAKER_09]: So, like, finding out about these cable outlets and broadcasts in general were the way to find out.
[01:02:56.120 --> 01:02:57.440] [SPEAKER_09]: as much information.
[01:02:57.460 --> 01:03:11.260] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I think SMS and some browsing features were available on the mobile phones of the era, but that was another thing that made that getting information and figuring out what it is difficult.
[01:03:11.260 --> 01:03:20.560] [SPEAKER_09]: But also, I'm imagining how much time it took for the conspiracies and all of the, like, infodemic...
[01:03:20.560 --> 01:03:21.120] [SPEAKER_14]: Not much time.
[01:03:21.260 --> 01:03:21.980] [SPEAKER_14]: Not much time at all.
[01:03:22.300 --> 01:03:22.460] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:03:22.460 --> 01:03:28.860] [SPEAKER_09]: The, like, chaotic noise and incorrect, inaccurate stuff.
[01:03:28.860 --> 01:03:31.640] [SPEAKER_14]: It's kind of like the politicians had the PATRIOT Act ready to go.
[01:03:31.640 --> 01:03:33.300] [SPEAKER_09]: We were better off without that.
[01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:33.700] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:03:34.080 --> 01:03:38.380] [SPEAKER_09]: And then that legal stuff, the, like, things that...
[01:03:38.380 --> 01:03:42.560] [SPEAKER_09]: the fallout of it that was to come after.
[01:03:42.760 --> 01:03:43.260] [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead, Gila.
[01:03:43.260 --> 01:03:48.240] [SPEAKER_00]: I was also thinking of something, a story my parents told me.
[01:03:48.860 --> 01:03:52.740] [SPEAKER_00]: My parents lived in Omaha, Nebraska at the time.
[01:03:52.900 --> 01:04:00.300] [SPEAKER_00]: And they were watching the national news feed, and there was a crawl of all the national sites that were closed.
[01:04:00.300 --> 01:04:09.940] [SPEAKER_00]: And things were, you know, the airports and the national monuments and whatever, Disneyland.
[01:04:11.100 --> 01:04:15.500] [SPEAKER_00]: And they said, but there was also a local crawl of all the things that were closed.
[01:04:15.680 --> 01:04:22.760] [SPEAKER_00]: And these... that happened to be at the exact same time that the words on the national feed, Mall of America, closed.
[01:04:23.600 --> 01:04:29.220] [SPEAKER_00]: There was this teeny tiny mall in Council Bluffs, Iowa, that was almost dead 23 years ago.
[01:04:29.220 --> 01:04:32.820] [SPEAKER_00]: And at the same time as the words Mall of America, closed, were going across the screen.
[01:04:32.960 --> 01:04:34.260] [SPEAKER_00]: It said Mall of the Bluffs, closed.
[01:04:34.380 --> 01:04:37.960] [SPEAKER_00]: Because that apparently was a place people were concerned about.
[01:04:38.600 --> 01:04:39.700] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was just...
[01:04:40.380 --> 01:04:50.940] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody, no matter how far removed you were from New York City, physically, I think everybody took on board that this felt like it was happening to all of us.
[01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:54.740] [SPEAKER_00]: And the Mall of the Bluffs in Council Bluffs, Iowa, needed to be closed.
[01:04:54.900 --> 01:04:56.500] [SPEAKER_12]: Is the Mall of the Bluffs still around?
[01:04:57.760 --> 01:04:59.180] [SPEAKER_12]: Give me one moment, please.
[01:04:59.380 --> 01:05:00.480] [SPEAKER_12]: I think we should all go.
[01:05:01.140 --> 01:05:07.140] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm wondering also, like, there are documentaries probably being made about January 6th.
[01:05:07.240 --> 01:05:23.700] [SPEAKER_09]: And the way we're interpreting media, a lot of these events are so covered, like there's a glut of coverage, because there was so much that was filmed, that the documentary, it was made by the actors or people there.
[01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:29.560] [SPEAKER_09]: And there was, like, some stuff that was aired, but I don't think there's an appetite for it.
[01:05:29.600 --> 01:05:31.900] [SPEAKER_09]: And there aren't a lot of outlets for it.
[01:05:31.960 --> 01:05:39.440] [SPEAKER_09]: It just seems like it's not been a subject matter people want to deal with, because it is immediately a presidential cycle.
[01:05:41.040 --> 01:05:41.560] [SPEAKER_14]: Interesting.
[01:05:42.560 --> 01:05:46.080] [SPEAKER_10]: Before you start, though, Gila, I'd like to say one thing.
[01:05:46.200 --> 01:05:53.700] [SPEAKER_10]: I do hope that somebody checked to see whether that mall was actually closed, because it could have been Bluffin'.
[01:05:54.300 --> 01:05:57.960] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm going to just fade you down for a little bit here, Alex, to get that out of the system.
[01:05:59.200 --> 01:06:05.140] [SPEAKER_00]: I would like to confirm, though, that the Mall of the Bluffs was closed for the last time on December 31st, 2019.
[01:06:05.800 --> 01:06:06.060] [SPEAKER_00]: Damn it!
[01:06:06.260 --> 01:06:07.160] [SPEAKER_00]: It was demolished...
[01:06:07.700 --> 01:06:08.100] [SPEAKER_00]: There's more.
[01:06:08.240 --> 01:06:09.400] [SPEAKER_00]: It was demolished a year later.
[01:06:09.560 --> 01:06:17.660] [SPEAKER_00]: And to the best of my understanding, Menards has purchased the site and is going to be building a giant new store on the property.
[01:06:17.820 --> 01:06:18.480] [SPEAKER_14]: Strike three.
[01:06:18.680 --> 01:06:18.960] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[01:06:21.020 --> 01:06:23.160] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you've got to visit malls while you can, folks.
[01:06:24.260 --> 01:06:29.600] [SPEAKER_14]: Because you don't know what you got until it goes back to wilderness or another store.
[01:06:30.740 --> 01:06:31.600] [SPEAKER_14]: Rob, do you have something?
[01:06:32.500 --> 01:06:33.700] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is true.
[01:06:33.940 --> 01:06:40.760] [SPEAKER_01]: As I mentioned on the air, I was working at the mall in Massapequa at the time, which, as I understand it, is also no more nowadays.
[01:06:40.900 --> 01:06:45.120] [SPEAKER_01]: And there are some gauzy plans on what they want to do with that whole area.
[01:06:45.780 --> 01:06:47.740] [SPEAKER_14]: Nothing sadder than an abandoned mall.
[01:06:48.780 --> 01:06:50.740] [SPEAKER_14]: Actually, no, there are plenty of things sadder than that.
[01:06:50.740 --> 01:06:54.740] [SPEAKER_14]: There's nothing sadder than a mall being constructed on wilderness.
[01:06:55.580 --> 01:06:56.880] [SPEAKER_14]: That's the saddest part.
[01:06:57.060 --> 01:06:58.500] [SPEAKER_14]: And we've had enough damn malls.
[01:06:58.580 --> 01:06:59.020] [SPEAKER_14]: So we've done it.
[01:06:59.120 --> 01:06:59.700] [SPEAKER_14]: We've done malls.
[01:06:59.760 --> 01:07:00.120] [SPEAKER_14]: We're finished.
[01:07:00.660 --> 01:07:01.100] [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[01:07:01.160 --> 01:07:01.620] [SPEAKER_14]: Let's move on.
[01:07:02.320 --> 01:07:02.900] [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, Kyle.
[01:07:02.900 --> 01:07:03.120] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:07:03.540 --> 01:07:04.460] [SPEAKER_09]: There's a phone call.
[01:07:04.680 --> 01:07:05.240] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, there's a phone call.
[01:07:05.480 --> 01:07:05.880] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[01:07:06.440 --> 01:07:07.620] [SPEAKER_14]: Let's take this next phone call.
[01:07:07.720 --> 01:07:07.920] [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[01:07:08.040 --> 01:07:09.060] [SPEAKER_14]: You're on off the cover time.
[01:07:09.140 --> 01:07:09.340] [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead.
[01:07:11.040 --> 01:07:14.680] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, I'm a new calling from a hackerspace, makerspace or hackerspace.
[01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:18.140] [SPEAKER_14]: And do you have any idea what the subject is tonight, Rebel?
[01:07:19.060 --> 01:07:19.700] [SPEAKER_07]: I do.
[01:07:20.040 --> 01:07:21.500] [SPEAKER_07]: About the 9-11 thing.
[01:07:21.620 --> 01:07:25.420] [SPEAKER_07]: Now, I just want to mention that one caller that said, no, everybody's forgetting.
[01:07:25.940 --> 01:07:28.720] [SPEAKER_07]: Look, everybody forgot about December 7th, didn't they?
[01:07:28.880 --> 01:07:29.600] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, you know...
[01:07:29.600 --> 01:07:30.520] [SPEAKER_07]: What, Pearl Harbor Day?
[01:07:30.520 --> 01:07:30.920] [SPEAKER_07]: We still remember.
[01:07:31.340 --> 01:07:32.680] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we still remember.
[01:07:32.780 --> 01:07:35.600] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, are we going to go back to the Battle of the Bastille?
[01:07:35.720 --> 01:07:38.560] [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, how much history do you want to cover?
[01:07:39.560 --> 01:07:40.160] [SPEAKER_07]: I know.
[01:07:40.240 --> 01:07:43.000] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm just saying people kind of forgot that and kind of...
[01:07:43.000 --> 01:07:43.900] [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think they forgot that.
[01:07:43.920 --> 01:07:48.760] [SPEAKER_14]: I think they just figured that's so damn far away that it's not relevant to this conversation.
[01:07:49.700 --> 01:07:50.380] [SPEAKER_14]: Anyway, okay.
[01:07:50.680 --> 01:07:51.080] [SPEAKER_14]: It's 1941.
[01:07:51.680 --> 01:07:53.940] [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, you know, I got the year right.
[01:07:54.120 --> 01:07:55.180] [SPEAKER_14]: I get credit for that, don't I?
[01:07:55.420 --> 01:07:58.580] [SPEAKER_09]: We're almost a quarter of the way through this century.
[01:07:58.580 --> 01:08:00.420] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, we're closer to 2041.
[01:08:00.420 --> 01:08:04.760] [SPEAKER_09]: I just would like to point that out to everyone on a general basis.
[01:08:04.760 --> 01:08:05.500] [SPEAKER_09]: That's scary.
[01:08:05.700 --> 01:08:06.220] [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[01:08:06.720 --> 01:08:08.220] [SPEAKER_14]: Almost a quarter of the way through the century.
[01:08:08.440 --> 01:08:11.040] [SPEAKER_09]: And the way things are remembered changes.
[01:08:11.380 --> 01:08:28.740] [SPEAKER_09]: That's something else I'm getting from the whole September 11th thing, the memorialization and what is memorialized, what is remembered, and how it's spoken, how different things are spoken through the language of it.
[01:08:28.820 --> 01:08:31.880] [SPEAKER_09]: And it is its own discourse.
[01:08:33.260 --> 01:08:40.820] [SPEAKER_09]: But the celebration, the remembrance, the memorialization changes through time and has.
[01:08:41.120 --> 01:08:46.940] [SPEAKER_09]: And it becomes just, I guess, ringing bells and saying names all day long.
[01:08:47.120 --> 01:08:48.680] [SPEAKER_09]: And will that change?
[01:08:48.820 --> 01:08:49.780] [SPEAKER_09]: Will that go on forever?
[01:08:50.160 --> 01:08:58.660] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, different events have evolved different traditions over time, and even those traditions can change.
[01:08:58.660 --> 01:09:00.060] [SPEAKER_14]: Of course, and as well they should.
[01:09:00.340 --> 01:09:02.460] [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, you can't be doing the same thing for hundreds of years.
[01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:07.560] [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, some people believe that, but, yeah, things change.
[01:09:07.720 --> 01:09:10.140] [SPEAKER_14]: Things become further back in history.
[01:09:10.380 --> 01:09:13.000] [SPEAKER_14]: Other things happen that replace them.
[01:09:13.740 --> 01:09:14.740] [SPEAKER_14]: You know what's weird, though?
[01:09:14.740 --> 01:09:17.260] [SPEAKER_14]: I realize we're living in the 20s, and no one says that.
[01:09:17.300 --> 01:09:18.780] [SPEAKER_14]: Why does nobody say it's the 20s?
[01:09:18.940 --> 01:09:19.700] [SPEAKER_14]: It's roaring.
[01:09:20.080 --> 01:09:20.820] [SPEAKER_14]: It's not roaring.
[01:09:20.820 --> 01:09:22.300] [SPEAKER_14]: No, the 1920s, yeah.
[01:09:22.300 --> 01:09:26.920] [SPEAKER_14]: But, I mean, even people don't say the 2020s, or they just don't say 20s.
[01:09:27.020 --> 01:09:32.280] [SPEAKER_14]: When I was growing up in the 70s, we said, this is the 70s, and boy, they suck.
[01:09:32.460 --> 01:09:33.380] [SPEAKER_14]: I remember that.
[01:09:33.720 --> 01:09:34.920] [SPEAKER_14]: It's just boring.
[01:09:34.920 --> 01:09:35.440] [SPEAKER_14]: It's apathetic.
[01:09:36.140 --> 01:09:37.300] [SPEAKER_14]: Nobody's doing anything interesting.
[01:09:37.520 --> 01:09:38.860] [SPEAKER_14]: The 60s, that was cool.
[01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:40.060] [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe the 80s would be better.
[01:09:40.200 --> 01:09:42.880] [SPEAKER_14]: But the 70s, man, what a waste of time.
[01:09:43.040 --> 01:09:46.000] [SPEAKER_14]: We said that back then, but I don't hear anybody talking about the 20s.
[01:09:48.100 --> 01:09:50.520] [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's probably two reasons for that.
[01:09:51.400 --> 01:09:55.500] [SPEAKER_00]: One is that when you say the 20s, people definitely still think the 1920s.
[01:09:55.600 --> 01:09:55.980] [SPEAKER_00]: Do they?
[01:09:56.260 --> 01:09:56.420] [SPEAKER_00]: Really?
[01:09:57.240 --> 01:09:58.360] [SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
[01:09:58.580 --> 01:10:03.340] [SPEAKER_00]: And number two, if you're going to say the 2020s, that's odd.
[01:10:03.340 --> 01:10:03.600] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[01:10:03.720 --> 01:10:18.280] [SPEAKER_00]: And now there's a third reason, which is that 2020 as a year sucked so hard and so bad in so many ways that we don't want to invoke its memory in that way.
[01:10:18.600 --> 01:10:22.800] [SPEAKER_14]: So you're saying just because of the pandemic, the whole decade has been sacrificed.
[01:10:23.880 --> 01:10:25.240] [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think that's fair.
[01:10:25.520 --> 01:10:27.280] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's just because of the pandemic.
[01:10:27.280 --> 01:10:29.040] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of crap went down in 2020.
[01:10:29.060 --> 01:10:33.300] [SPEAKER_14]: The first two decades, you know, we didn't have names for those either.
[01:10:33.400 --> 01:10:35.660] [SPEAKER_14]: We didn't call them the aughts, even though people are doing that now.
[01:10:35.820 --> 01:10:36.940] [SPEAKER_14]: We didn't call them the teens.
[01:10:37.120 --> 01:10:39.380] [SPEAKER_14]: I didn't hear anybody say, oh, we're in the teens now.
[01:10:39.860 --> 01:10:41.160] [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, what's going on?
[01:10:41.200 --> 01:10:42.780] [SPEAKER_14]: In the 1900s, we had this figured out.
[01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:44.560] [SPEAKER_14]: It was the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s.
[01:10:44.800 --> 01:10:47.540] [SPEAKER_14]: Here, we can't seem to get started.
[01:10:48.360 --> 01:10:50.160] [SPEAKER_14]: Did you not hear people calling it the aughties?
[01:10:50.500 --> 01:10:50.860] [SPEAKER_14]: Never.
[01:10:51.700 --> 01:10:55.600] [SPEAKER_14]: And if they did, I dismissed them immediately as being obnoxious.
[01:10:55.600 --> 01:11:01.460] [SPEAKER_09]: I think they don't say it because they're saying it every time they reference the date.
[01:11:01.740 --> 01:11:05.300] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, when you write the date, you're saying 2024 or...
[01:11:05.300 --> 01:11:05.760] [SPEAKER_09]: Out loud?
[01:11:06.260 --> 01:11:14.320] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I think when people are talking about today's date or the year, you're saying it's 2024 then, in that year.
[01:11:15.320 --> 01:11:15.840] [SPEAKER_09]: But...
[01:11:15.840 --> 01:11:17.500] [SPEAKER_09]: You're not saying it's the 2024s.
[01:11:17.560 --> 01:11:19.400] [SPEAKER_14]: About living through the 70s and the 80s and the 90s.
[01:11:19.440 --> 01:11:21.380] [SPEAKER_14]: We said it then while we were living through it.
[01:11:21.480 --> 01:11:22.700] [SPEAKER_14]: We're not saying it...
[01:11:22.700 --> 01:11:23.160] [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[01:11:23.160 --> 01:11:24.980] [SPEAKER_14]: There's no decade pride anymore.
[01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:26.480] [SPEAKER_14]: I think that's my point.
[01:11:27.380 --> 01:11:28.680] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, you know, I forgot Rebel.
[01:11:29.000 --> 01:11:29.740] [SPEAKER_14]: Sorry, Rebel.
[01:11:29.900 --> 01:11:30.720] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, yeah, we should.
[01:11:30.760 --> 01:11:31.800] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm so sorry about it.
[01:11:31.800 --> 01:11:32.960] [SPEAKER_14]: I went off on a tangent there.
[01:11:33.160 --> 01:11:33.280] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[01:11:34.640 --> 01:11:34.840] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[01:11:35.440 --> 01:11:40.100] [SPEAKER_07]: Did you know that Google is getting rid of Google Voice?
[01:11:40.300 --> 01:11:41.640] [SPEAKER_07]: They're doing away with Google Voice?
[01:11:41.860 --> 01:11:43.740] [SPEAKER_14]: I like the way you say Google for some reason.
[01:11:46.300 --> 01:11:46.660] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[01:11:47.200 --> 01:11:47.560] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[01:11:47.560 --> 01:11:48.480] [SPEAKER_14]: That's my reaction, too.
[01:11:49.220 --> 01:11:49.580] [SPEAKER_14]: Um...
[01:11:49.580 --> 01:11:50.780] [SPEAKER_14]: Can you repeat all of that?
[01:11:50.860 --> 01:11:52.620] [SPEAKER_14]: Because I just got sort of distracted by that.
[01:11:52.720 --> 01:11:52.940] [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead.
[01:11:53.180 --> 01:11:57.500] [SPEAKER_07]: When I went to the Google store on 10th Avenue or whatever it is...
[01:11:57.500 --> 01:11:57.900] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah.
[01:11:58.820 --> 01:12:00.860] [SPEAKER_07]: ...or they're not in the office, but...
[01:12:00.860 --> 01:12:01.580] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, they're Google...
[01:12:01.580 --> 01:12:02.560] [SPEAKER_07]: Stop saying it, please.
[01:12:02.560 --> 01:12:03.560] [SPEAKER_14]: It's just making it worse.
[01:12:04.260 --> 01:12:04.520] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[01:12:05.080 --> 01:12:05.520] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[01:12:05.720 --> 01:12:06.680] [SPEAKER_07]: So you go by...
[01:12:07.400 --> 01:12:10.720] [SPEAKER_07]: I went there, and I said, my Google Voice isn't working.
[01:12:10.880 --> 01:12:12.580] [SPEAKER_07]: They said, well, we're getting rid of...
[01:12:12.580 --> 01:12:13.840] [SPEAKER_07]: We're doing away with Google Voice.
[01:12:14.260 --> 01:12:16.460] [SPEAKER_14]: Are you using your Google Voice right now, Rebel?
[01:12:16.920 --> 01:12:18.340] [SPEAKER_14]: No, I'm not using Google Voice.
[01:12:18.360 --> 01:12:19.760] [SPEAKER_14]: What voice is this you're using?
[01:12:19.800 --> 01:12:21.260] [SPEAKER_14]: Because I don't think it's your Google Voice.
[01:12:22.200 --> 01:12:22.360] [SPEAKER_14]: No.
[01:12:23.080 --> 01:12:23.500] [SPEAKER_14]: I have...
[01:12:23.500 --> 01:12:24.520] [SPEAKER_07]: They're getting rid of the Google...
[01:12:24.520 --> 01:12:26.320] [SPEAKER_07]: The Google Voice service.
[01:12:26.380 --> 01:12:27.220] [SPEAKER_07]: Stop saying it.
[01:12:27.220 --> 01:12:27.840] [SPEAKER_07]: I have...
[01:12:28.380 --> 01:12:30.020] [SPEAKER_09]: I have some experience with this.
[01:12:30.160 --> 01:12:37.540] [SPEAKER_09]: I actually had a number that I was using, and they had this game where if you didn't use it enough, they would threaten to take it back from me.
[01:12:37.640 --> 01:12:37.940] [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[01:12:38.180 --> 01:12:39.940] [SPEAKER_09]: And eventually, they just took it.
[01:12:40.020 --> 01:12:40.900] [SPEAKER_14]: They took your phone number away.
[01:12:41.660 --> 01:12:42.060] [SPEAKER_09]: Um...
[01:12:42.060 --> 01:12:45.000] [SPEAKER_09]: And I haven't talked to the person that has it now.
[01:12:45.140 --> 01:12:46.280] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sure they're loving it.
[01:12:46.300 --> 01:12:47.380] [SPEAKER_14]: I did, by accident.
[01:12:47.440 --> 01:12:49.220] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, you accidentally contacted them.
[01:12:49.300 --> 01:12:50.640] [SPEAKER_09]: It's a whole long thing, but...
[01:12:50.640 --> 01:12:53.260] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you had a WhatsApp account, I think, attached to it, right?
[01:12:53.260 --> 01:12:55.100] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't want to get into exactly how...
[01:12:55.100 --> 01:12:56.520] [SPEAKER_14]: And then I tried to contact you on WhatsApp.
[01:12:56.520 --> 01:13:03.180] [SPEAKER_14]: I wound up talking to this complete stranger who now knows all your friends and family and is more beloved than you are.
[01:13:03.180 --> 01:13:04.680] [SPEAKER_09]: I told you the perils of WhatsApp.
[01:13:04.680 --> 01:13:05.320] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's...
[01:13:05.320 --> 01:13:07.120] [SPEAKER_14]: That's why your identity has been stolen, Kyle.
[01:13:07.120 --> 01:13:09.900] [SPEAKER_09]: Wait, I don't use it for anybody I know.
[01:13:10.260 --> 01:13:16.120] [SPEAKER_09]: But anyway, this person ended up knowing you because that's not the point.
[01:13:16.240 --> 01:13:16.380] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh.
[01:13:16.540 --> 01:13:22.100] [SPEAKER_09]: The point is, they took it back, and it doesn't surprise me that they're...
[01:13:22.100 --> 01:13:23.900] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know what the game is.
[01:13:23.940 --> 01:13:27.040] [SPEAKER_09]: They want, I guess, content over it.
[01:13:27.180 --> 01:13:30.280] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, they want all your voicemails and all your conversations.
[01:13:30.480 --> 01:13:38.640] [SPEAKER_09]: And if you're not using it that frequently, if it's just sitting, they want to, I guess, allocate that to somebody else who will use it that way.
[01:13:38.640 --> 01:13:40.800] [SPEAKER_14]: I think they just want the phone number back if you're not using the phone number.
[01:13:41.040 --> 01:13:43.440] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, if you make a phone call, I think that would have counted.
[01:13:43.700 --> 01:13:47.020] [SPEAKER_09]: But if it's a free service, why do you have to keep using it?
[01:13:47.120 --> 01:13:48.720] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, it seems like you're...
[01:13:48.720 --> 01:13:49.820] [SPEAKER_14]: It's free to you.
[01:13:49.960 --> 01:13:52.480] [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think they just conjured a number up out of thin air.
[01:13:52.540 --> 01:13:54.320] [SPEAKER_14]: I think they had to do something to get the number.
[01:13:54.320 --> 01:13:58.280] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, but it wasn't like that kind of thing to begin with.
[01:13:58.420 --> 01:13:58.620] [SPEAKER_09]: No?
[01:13:58.720 --> 01:14:08.200] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm just relating to the fact that it might be going away because it seems like they didn't really want to allow you to have it and use it the way you want.
[01:14:08.320 --> 01:14:10.760] [SPEAKER_09]: Because the way I want is not using it all the time.
[01:14:10.880 --> 01:14:11.240] [SPEAKER_14]: Right, right.
[01:14:11.600 --> 01:14:14.160] [SPEAKER_14]: But they'll be sunsetting it, I'm sure, as they say.
[01:14:14.800 --> 01:14:17.260] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, what else do you know about this going away?
[01:14:17.300 --> 01:14:19.260] [SPEAKER_09]: Because good riddance is what I have to say.
[01:14:19.440 --> 01:14:21.620] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you know, we're using Google Voice right now.
[01:14:21.940 --> 01:14:22.380] [SPEAKER_14]: Are we?
[01:14:22.380 --> 01:14:24.260] [SPEAKER_14]: This phone number is a Google Voice number.
[01:14:24.460 --> 01:14:24.860] [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, Gila.
[01:14:25.080 --> 01:14:26.340] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but this is what they want.
[01:14:26.340 --> 01:14:28.580] [SPEAKER_09]: They're happy, so they're not threatening you, right?
[01:14:28.580 --> 01:14:29.940] [SPEAKER_14]: Gila is waving her hand frantically...
[01:14:29.940 --> 01:14:30.540] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, sorry, Gila.
[01:14:30.660 --> 01:14:30.980] [SPEAKER_14]: ...and jumping up and down.
[01:14:31.040 --> 01:14:31.240] [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead.
[01:14:31.700 --> 01:14:37.960] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I am waving my hand frantically because it appears that they're not ending Google Voice.
[01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:40.160] [SPEAKER_00]: They're just changing it slightly.
[01:14:41.360 --> 01:14:43.860] [SPEAKER_00]: Legacy Google Voice is being sunsetted.
[01:14:44.280 --> 01:14:46.700] [SPEAKER_00]: It'd be a more higher pitched Google Voice.
[01:14:46.960 --> 01:14:47.500] [SPEAKER_14]: Am I correct?
[01:14:48.340 --> 01:14:48.820] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes!
[01:14:51.620 --> 01:14:52.180] Um...
[01:14:52.180 --> 01:14:53.840] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, wow.
[01:14:54.180 --> 01:14:54.920] [SPEAKER_09]: Gee whiz.
[01:14:55.200 --> 01:14:56.100] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean...
[01:14:56.100 --> 01:14:56.580] [SPEAKER_09]: What?
[01:14:56.760 --> 01:14:57.180] [SPEAKER_09]: I...
[01:14:57.820 --> 01:14:59.160] [SPEAKER_09]: I've no...
[01:14:59.160 --> 01:15:00.840] [SPEAKER_09]: I have all the words and none.
[01:15:01.520 --> 01:15:02.080] [SPEAKER_09]: Like...
[01:15:02.080 --> 01:15:02.780] [SPEAKER_09]: So...
[01:15:03.380 --> 01:15:03.940] [SPEAKER_09]: So...
[01:15:03.940 --> 01:15:05.400] [SPEAKER_09]: Why do I care?
[01:15:05.720 --> 01:15:07.040] [SPEAKER_09]: What they are doing?
[01:15:07.320 --> 01:15:07.980] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, you know what?
[01:15:08.100 --> 01:15:09.260] [SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't apply to me.
[01:15:09.340 --> 01:15:09.940] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't care.
[01:15:10.900 --> 01:15:11.200] Uh...
[01:15:11.500 --> 01:15:12.020] [SPEAKER_00]: But I...
[01:15:12.020 --> 01:15:14.800] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that the, um...
[01:15:14.800 --> 01:15:18.800] [SPEAKER_00]: The rumors of Google Voice's demise, um...
[01:15:18.800 --> 01:15:19.640] [SPEAKER_00]: Are...
[01:15:19.640 --> 01:15:21.420] [SPEAKER_00]: Slightly exaggerated.
[01:15:22.240 --> 01:15:24.100] [SPEAKER_00]: If not just full out...
[01:15:24.720 --> 01:15:25.560] [SPEAKER_00]: Not a thing.
[01:15:26.260 --> 01:15:26.540] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh...
[01:15:26.540 --> 01:15:27.160] [SPEAKER_00]: So...
[01:15:27.160 --> 01:15:28.720] [SPEAKER_00]: Rebel, you may have been misinformed.
[01:15:31.000 --> 01:15:31.600] [SPEAKER_00]: Emmanuel?
[01:15:32.160 --> 01:15:32.560] [SPEAKER_14]: Uh...
[01:15:32.560 --> 01:15:34.160] [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, did you hear what Gila said to you?
[01:15:34.460 --> 01:15:35.040] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[01:15:35.040 --> 01:15:37.160] [SPEAKER_07]: I kind of hear she was very low, but my...
[01:15:37.160 --> 01:15:38.300] [SPEAKER_07]: I want to just make a point that...
[01:15:38.760 --> 01:15:41.100] [SPEAKER_07]: My Google Voice numbers stopped working.
[01:15:41.280 --> 01:15:45.340] [SPEAKER_07]: Then when I asked the people at the Google store, they said they're doing away with Google Voice or...
[01:15:45.340 --> 01:15:48.460] [SPEAKER_07]: They're doing away with some service, maybe the phone number service or something.
[01:15:48.840 --> 01:15:51.340] [SPEAKER_07]: So I'm just telling you guys because I know you use Google Voice.
[01:15:51.580 --> 01:15:52.680] [SPEAKER_14]: There are Google stores?
[01:15:53.040 --> 01:15:54.480] [SPEAKER_14]: I've never been to a Google store.
[01:15:55.220 --> 01:15:58.940] [SPEAKER_07]: There's a Google store on 9th Avenue in like 14th Street by the Google.
[01:15:59.280 --> 01:15:59.720] [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[01:16:00.020 --> 01:16:00.260] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[01:16:00.400 --> 01:16:00.880] [SPEAKER_14]: I have to...
[01:16:00.880 --> 01:16:02.440] [SPEAKER_14]: Have to go there and, uh...
[01:16:02.440 --> 01:16:03.240] [SPEAKER_14]: And taunt them a bit.
[01:16:03.360 --> 01:16:04.360] [SPEAKER_14]: But, um...
[01:16:04.360 --> 01:16:04.860] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I...
[01:16:04.860 --> 01:16:06.100] [SPEAKER_14]: I wouldn't believe everything you're told.
[01:16:06.100 --> 01:16:07.240] [SPEAKER_07]: But, uh...
[01:16:07.240 --> 01:16:07.600] [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[01:16:07.700 --> 01:16:09.880] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that's what they told me, that they're doing away with the service.
[01:16:09.980 --> 01:16:12.700] [SPEAKER_07]: That's why my Google phone number stopped working.
[01:16:14.720 --> 01:16:15.200] Um...
[01:16:15.200 --> 01:16:24.280] [SPEAKER_07]: Now, the other thing I wanted to mention is that at the 2600 meeting, I used my laptop Wi-Fi that the building, the city called the building Wi-Fi.
[01:16:24.500 --> 01:16:29.080] [SPEAKER_07]: They blocked 2600 from being viewed on their Wi-Fi.
[01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:30.440] [SPEAKER_14]: Uh...
[01:16:30.440 --> 01:16:31.720] [SPEAKER_07]: Who is this that blocks it?
[01:16:32.180 --> 01:16:33.020] [SPEAKER_07]: The city...
[01:16:33.020 --> 01:16:35.200] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, the city of the building where the Hue is.
[01:16:35.420 --> 01:16:35.460] [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[01:16:35.460 --> 01:16:35.820] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[01:16:36.560 --> 01:16:37.000] [SPEAKER_07]: They...
[01:16:37.000 --> 01:16:42.480] [SPEAKER_07]: When you go on their Wi-Fi, you cannot go to city to 2600 on Wi-Fi.
[01:16:42.660 --> 01:16:42.920] [SPEAKER_07]: Wow.
[01:16:43.260 --> 01:16:44.700] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I mean, we're familiar with this.
[01:16:44.860 --> 01:16:51.440] [SPEAKER_14]: There's a lot of companies that block us and say that, you know, we're a hacking site and all that, when really, we're not.
[01:16:51.520 --> 01:16:51.920] [SPEAKER_14]: We have...
[01:16:51.920 --> 01:16:52.460] [SPEAKER_14]: We have...
[01:16:52.460 --> 01:16:56.500] [SPEAKER_14]: This show is on our site and not much else.
[01:16:56.600 --> 01:17:05.600] [SPEAKER_07]: Right, but the thing is that if you tether on your phone or if you go to another Wi-Fi, like the Link New York City, if you get that, you'll be able to go to 2600.
[01:17:05.820 --> 01:17:11.360] [SPEAKER_07]: Now, when I went to the Best Buy store today, I went to the app where they had the little Macintosh...
[01:17:11.360 --> 01:17:14.320] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, they may have like two or three Macintoshes, Apple computers.
[01:17:14.700 --> 01:17:15.100] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[01:17:15.500 --> 01:17:15.900] [SPEAKER_07]: On...
[01:17:15.900 --> 01:17:18.420] [SPEAKER_07]: They do not let you go to 2600.
[01:17:18.860 --> 01:17:24.180] [SPEAKER_07]: But, when I tethered it on my phone, they still don't let you go to 2600.
[01:17:24.480 --> 01:17:25.620] [SPEAKER_07]: When I went on...
[01:17:25.620 --> 01:17:32.620] [SPEAKER_07]: When I went on another Wi-Fi, like if you could look at what Wi-Fi hotspots there are, when I went to...
[01:17:32.620 --> 01:17:34.600] [SPEAKER_07]: I found like a free one that like...
[01:17:34.600 --> 01:17:34.920] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:17:34.920 --> 01:17:35.920] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know, like...
[01:17:35.920 --> 01:17:41.000] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it was a Starbucks there, and I went on their website, their Wi-Fi, because they were like...
[01:17:41.580 --> 01:17:45.040] [SPEAKER_07]: I went on Starbucks website, you know, and still, no 2600.
[01:17:45.220 --> 01:17:45.500] [SPEAKER_07]: No way.
[01:17:45.500 --> 01:17:46.520] [SPEAKER_14]: How do they do it?
[01:17:46.600 --> 01:17:48.340] [SPEAKER_14]: I know Starbucks goes to 2600.
[01:17:48.440 --> 01:17:49.140] [SPEAKER_14]: I've used them.
[01:17:49.460 --> 01:17:50.680] [SPEAKER_14]: They're AT&T, I think.
[01:17:50.920 --> 01:17:51.240] [SPEAKER_14]: No, no.
[01:17:51.520 --> 01:17:51.800] [SPEAKER_14]: It's...
[01:17:51.800 --> 01:17:52.060] [SPEAKER_14]: No.
[01:17:52.700 --> 01:17:53.100] [SPEAKER_14]: They...
[01:17:53.100 --> 01:17:53.460] [SPEAKER_07]: It's...
[01:17:53.460 --> 01:17:59.920] [SPEAKER_07]: I tethered on my phone onto this Apple computer at Best Buy.
[01:18:00.160 --> 01:18:01.900] [SPEAKER_07]: It still doesn't go to 2600.
[01:18:02.120 --> 01:18:03.360] [SPEAKER_14]: Alex, you look like you're in a Starbucks.
[01:18:03.520 --> 01:18:04.260] [SPEAKER_14]: Can you check this for us?
[01:18:06.040 --> 01:18:06.440] [SPEAKER_07]: No, no.
[01:18:06.580 --> 01:18:14.240] [SPEAKER_07]: Starbucks, when I go to Starbucks, you can go to 2600 on Starbucks on their Wi-Fi, but it's just at Best Buy on these Apple computers.
[01:18:14.620 --> 01:18:14.980] [SPEAKER_07]: Wait, what?
[01:18:15.460 --> 01:18:16.680] [SPEAKER_14]: Does anybody understand what he said?
[01:18:16.680 --> 01:18:19.540] [SPEAKER_14]: You can go there at Starbucks, but what?
[01:18:20.320 --> 01:18:24.280] [SPEAKER_07]: But you can't go there on the Apple computer at Best Buy.
[01:18:24.520 --> 01:18:26.060] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, why are you bringing up Starbucks, then?
[01:18:26.340 --> 01:18:27.520] [SPEAKER_14]: Why are we talking about Starbucks?
[01:18:27.740 --> 01:18:34.380] [SPEAKER_07]: Because if you go to Best Buy, you know, they're all hooked onto Best Buy's Wi-Fi.
[01:18:34.900 --> 01:18:38.700] [SPEAKER_07]: I figured, okay, I can't go to 2600 on Best Buy's Wi-Fi.
[01:18:38.700 --> 01:18:42.540] [SPEAKER_07]: I'll go to Starbucks Wi-Fi, or I'll tether it on my Wi-Fi on my cell phone.
[01:18:42.920 --> 01:18:45.440] [SPEAKER_07]: Still, you can't go to 2600.com.
[01:18:46.240 --> 01:18:47.240] [SPEAKER_07]: How does that work?
[01:18:47.720 --> 01:18:49.260] [SPEAKER_14]: I don't understand what you're doing.
[01:18:49.340 --> 01:18:50.600] [SPEAKER_14]: Does anybody here understand what he's doing?
[01:18:50.840 --> 01:18:51.600] [SPEAKER_14]: Can someone speak up?
[01:18:53.040 --> 01:18:54.500] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, we're all clueless, apparently.
[01:18:54.500 --> 01:18:55.640] [SPEAKER_14]: We have no idea what you're doing.
[01:18:55.920 --> 01:18:58.500] [SPEAKER_14]: You're somehow using Starbucks while you're in Best Buy?
[01:18:59.280 --> 01:19:00.440] [SPEAKER_14]: No, I'm going to...
[01:19:00.440 --> 01:19:00.700] [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[01:19:01.560 --> 01:19:05.080] [SPEAKER_07]: At the 2600 meeting, I go to their Wi-Fi.
[01:19:05.440 --> 01:19:09.080] [SPEAKER_07]: You cannot go to 2600 website on their Wi-Fi.
[01:19:09.320 --> 01:19:17.000] [SPEAKER_07]: If you, like, tether it on your cell phone, or if you go to another Wi-Fi hotspot that's nearby, you would be able to.
[01:19:17.760 --> 01:19:18.720] [SPEAKER_09]: That's not surprising.
[01:19:18.720 --> 01:19:19.840] [SPEAKER_09]: They have a lot of electronics.
[01:19:20.260 --> 01:19:21.180] [SPEAKER_09]: Next, next place.
[01:19:21.400 --> 01:19:22.580] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, that's Best Buy.
[01:19:22.720 --> 01:19:24.300] [SPEAKER_14]: How does Starbucks enter into this?
[01:19:24.440 --> 01:19:25.040] [SPEAKER_14]: Please tell me.
[01:19:25.040 --> 01:19:33.960] [SPEAKER_07]: Because if I go to Starbucks, or let's say, Chicopee or something, or another Wi-Fi hotspot, then I still...
[01:19:33.960 --> 01:19:43.000] [SPEAKER_07]: If I'm at Best Buy, I'm using their computers, or their, you know, Apples, or whatever computers they have on the plane, you will still not be able to go to 2600 website.
[01:19:43.000 --> 01:19:50.700] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, you're saying if you use a computer that belongs to Best Buy, and you use Starbucks Wi-Fi network, it'll still be blocked.
[01:19:50.700 --> 01:19:51.140] [SPEAKER_14]: Or anybody else.
[01:19:51.280 --> 01:19:51.940] [SPEAKER_14]: Because it's blocked.
[01:19:52.040 --> 01:19:52.480] [SPEAKER_14]: Right, or anybody else.
[01:19:52.480 --> 01:20:00.320] [SPEAKER_14]: Probably because they have it, apparently, set to the machine, or to their internal network, regardless of what.
[01:20:00.480 --> 01:20:01.560] [SPEAKER_14]: Rob, do you have something to add to this?
[01:20:02.480 --> 01:20:12.840] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I hate to derail the discussion and completely change the subject, but Rebel, I know that you're a local guy, and you and I knew each other back at that point.
[01:20:12.840 --> 01:20:20.980] [SPEAKER_01]: I wondered if perhaps you were comfortable sharing your thoughts about what happened on September 11th, 2001, and what was going on with you.
[01:20:22.800 --> 01:20:25.800] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I will after we answer this question.
[01:20:27.480 --> 01:20:28.240] [SPEAKER_07]: Wow, okay.
[01:20:28.460 --> 01:20:29.180] [SPEAKER_07]: I knew where I was.
[01:20:29.300 --> 01:20:30.240] [SPEAKER_07]: I knew where I was.
[01:20:30.580 --> 01:20:30.800] [SPEAKER_07]: I knew where I was.
[01:20:30.800 --> 01:20:31.700] [SPEAKER_07]: I could tell you where I was.
[01:20:31.920 --> 01:20:34.660] [SPEAKER_07]: But after we answer this question.
[01:20:34.680 --> 01:20:35.820] [SPEAKER_14]: What do you want us to do about this?
[01:20:35.840 --> 01:20:36.920] [SPEAKER_14]: We can't fix the problem.
[01:20:37.760 --> 01:20:38.080] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[01:20:38.200 --> 01:20:38.580] [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, no.
[01:20:38.640 --> 01:20:39.300] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not asking you.
[01:20:39.320 --> 01:20:56.100] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm just wondering how it works is that if I have a laptop, I'm at the 2600 meeting, and I log onto Citicorp's Wi-Fi or the Hughes Wi-Fi or whatever it is, and I go to my Google Chrome browser and type 2600.com, it does not work.
[01:20:56.240 --> 01:21:13.140] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, so what I think the answer here is, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, is that you're encountering a network block or blacklist of our site that when you connect to a particular Wi-Fi network, when you connect to a particular Wi-Fi network, you find that it's blocked.
[01:21:13.140 --> 01:21:18.140] [SPEAKER_14]: Now, the same thing can also be set on a local network.
[01:21:18.140 --> 01:21:27.420] [SPEAKER_14]: That means if you're using a computer inside a store that belongs to them, regardless of what network you connect that computer to, it can also be blocked.
[01:21:27.580 --> 01:21:36.540] [SPEAKER_14]: If, however, you walked in there with your laptop, you walked into Best Buy with your laptop and connected that to Starbucks, you should be able to get through.
[01:21:37.020 --> 01:21:37.540] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[01:21:37.840 --> 01:21:38.120] [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[01:21:38.120 --> 01:21:44.860] [SPEAKER_07]: I was wondering how they do it on their network, like whatever Wi-Fi network you choose.
[01:21:44.960 --> 01:21:45.520] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a setting.
[01:21:45.780 --> 01:21:46.420] [SPEAKER_06]: It's a setting.
[01:21:47.400 --> 01:21:51.740] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, so you could set it so that your browser doesn't go to certain websites?
[01:21:51.940 --> 01:21:53.800] [SPEAKER_14]: You're using their computer, right?
[01:21:54.340 --> 01:21:54.840] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[01:21:55.020 --> 01:21:56.160] [SPEAKER_14]: It's not your browser.
[01:21:56.900 --> 01:21:59.080] [SPEAKER_09]: They have control over that network.
[01:21:59.080 --> 01:21:59.540] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:21:59.740 --> 01:22:16.180] [SPEAKER_09]: So they can implement all kinds of whatever they want and impose that on the customers that are, in most cases, just the general public who could, you know, be going to places they're not interested in them navigating to.
[01:22:16.380 --> 01:22:18.620] [SPEAKER_09]: So they control it in their network.
[01:22:18.760 --> 01:22:24.400] [SPEAKER_14]: They can program their computer to start flashing a red light and blaring a siren if you type 2600.
[01:22:24.520 --> 01:22:25.140] [SPEAKER_14]: They can do that.
[01:22:25.280 --> 01:22:26.160] [SPEAKER_14]: That's their computer.
[01:22:26.640 --> 01:22:37.020] [SPEAKER_07]: So they take all five computers or six computers or however many computers they have there and go on Safari on each of them and go to the settings on Safari.
[01:22:37.540 --> 01:22:39.760] [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know exactly how they do it.
[01:22:39.900 --> 01:22:47.260] [SPEAKER_14]: It might just be something system-wide that no matter what browser you use, don't go to this particular IP or this particular domain name.
[01:22:47.340 --> 01:22:47.700] [SPEAKER_07]: What do you mean system-wide, brother?
[01:22:47.860 --> 01:22:48.840] [SPEAKER_07]: What do you mean system-wide?
[01:22:48.840 --> 01:22:53.680] [SPEAKER_14]: The system that they have in Best Buy for all of their computers, which I assume they all go through the same system.
[01:22:53.800 --> 01:23:01.740] [SPEAKER_09]: Depending on the OS, they could have their own firewalls implemented in the operating system and if they orchestrate that when they install it...
[01:23:01.740 --> 01:23:01.780] [SPEAKER_07]: Apple.
[01:23:02.000 --> 01:23:02.200] [SPEAKER_07]: Apple.
[01:23:02.520 --> 01:23:02.740] [SPEAKER_07]: Apple.
[01:23:02.740 --> 01:23:03.160] [SPEAKER_07]: They could have been Apple.
[01:23:03.700 --> 01:23:06.620] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, well, they can use Apple to do that easily.
[01:23:07.420 --> 01:23:10.760] [SPEAKER_14]: Rob, you have something else as a second request for Rebel to tell a story?
[01:23:11.280 --> 01:23:35.940] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there is software for retail establishments and that sort of use case where you have a computer that's there for demonstration or if you're running a Wi-Fi network that people might connect their own devices to and it's always a feature of that software that you can decide to block certain sites or you could decide to block categories of sites or you could use a block list which might be a
[01:23:35.940 --> 01:23:44.020] [SPEAKER_01]: commercial thing or a free thing or whatever or some kind of list they can subscribe to to say here's all the sites that have to do with hacking that you can block.
[01:23:44.140 --> 01:23:46.820] [SPEAKER_01]: Here's all the sites that have to do with adult content that you can block.
[01:23:47.000 --> 01:23:52.840] [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of them just automatically use these lists and block and block things wholesale.
[01:23:52.840 --> 01:23:55.120] [SPEAKER_01]: And you can do that on, you know, the local machine.
[01:23:55.120 --> 01:23:56.800] [SPEAKER_01]: You can do that on the local network.
[01:23:56.940 --> 01:24:06.380] [SPEAKER_01]: It can happen anywhere along the process between the screen you're looking at and the open Internet, because they own every step of that system inside, the computer, the network, everything.
[01:24:06.680 --> 01:24:15.300] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's very, very common for retail establishments to block anything that they might worry that might be found objectionable, quote unquote.
[01:24:15.300 --> 01:24:18.940] [SPEAKER_14]: Let me try and explain this in a way Rebel might be familiar with.
[01:24:19.080 --> 01:24:21.840] [SPEAKER_14]: Let's say that you're calling us.
[01:24:22.140 --> 01:24:28.080] [SPEAKER_14]: We can set Google Voice or whatever we're using to block your number so it never gets to us.
[01:24:28.240 --> 01:24:35.100] [SPEAKER_14]: Now, if for some reason we don't do that, and we see your number showing up on caller ID, we can opt not to pick it up.
[01:24:35.200 --> 01:24:36.740] [SPEAKER_14]: You see, there's two different ways to block you.
[01:24:36.900 --> 01:24:38.120] [SPEAKER_14]: There's many ways to block you.
[01:24:40.340 --> 01:24:43.940] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, so it's basically the city code, getting back to the city code thing.
[01:24:44.100 --> 01:24:45.720] [SPEAKER_07]: That's just the network doing that.
[01:24:45.820 --> 01:24:46.780] [SPEAKER_07]: That's just their Wi-Fi.
[01:24:46.940 --> 01:24:47.720] [SPEAKER_07]: It sounds like their Wi-Fi.
[01:24:48.040 --> 01:24:49.600] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, because you're not using their computer.
[01:24:49.780 --> 01:24:52.880] [SPEAKER_07]: You can go to a proxy, but you can go to a proxy and get around it?
[01:24:53.720 --> 01:24:56.600] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I mean, why don't you just connect to a different Wi-Fi network?
[01:24:57.680 --> 01:24:58.020] [SPEAKER_07]: What?
[01:24:58.200 --> 01:24:58.540] [SPEAKER_07]: VPN.
[01:24:59.160 --> 01:24:59.880] [SPEAKER_14]: Your VPN?
[01:25:00.220 --> 01:25:01.160] [SPEAKER_14]: You could use a VPN?
[01:25:02.300 --> 01:25:03.060] [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[01:25:03.160 --> 01:25:04.120] [SPEAKER_14]: In some cases, yes.
[01:25:04.260 --> 01:25:06.120] [SPEAKER_14]: Some cases, it's not a problem.
[01:25:07.300 --> 01:25:17.100] [SPEAKER_09]: But you could be, you know, the more you're doing on their systems, the more you've got to wonder, like, okay, how much more are they interested in what's going on here?
[01:25:17.460 --> 01:25:28.060] [SPEAKER_09]: And you're obviously in their store, so there could be cameras, and then the actions you take if you're installing software onto these systems while you're there.
[01:25:29.160 --> 01:25:39.120] [SPEAKER_09]: You are then running on the clock, basically, before someone takes an interest in you modifying what is there, which is essentially the hardware.
[01:25:39.120 --> 01:25:49.160] [SPEAKER_09]: And even if you got down to that, like, reinstalling something or doing something quick enough, you're better off probably just plugging right into their wall.
[01:25:49.480 --> 01:26:00.020] [SPEAKER_09]: And even then, you'd be detectable and, you know, probably be limited in whatever you're appearing to be on their network.
[01:26:00.020 --> 01:26:10.540] [SPEAKER_09]: So, yeah, I mean, there's lots of things you could be doing, but you're already getting the warning that they care about what people have their hands on in-store.
[01:26:10.820 --> 01:26:16.080] [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, the easiest thing, though, is if you have network on your phone, simply tether to your phone and connect that way.
[01:26:16.740 --> 01:26:18.660] [SPEAKER_07]: Right, yeah, that's in the city court building.
[01:26:18.840 --> 01:26:19.540] [SPEAKER_07]: That you could do.
[01:26:19.620 --> 01:26:20.100] [SPEAKER_07]: That's anywhere.
[01:26:21.740 --> 01:26:23.420] [SPEAKER_07]: Right, not in Best Buy.
[01:26:23.420 --> 01:26:26.340] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, no, not in Best Buy, because I tried tethering it on my phone.
[01:26:26.420 --> 01:26:26.800] [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, no.
[01:26:27.000 --> 01:26:29.380] [SPEAKER_14]: Listen, it's your phone network.
[01:26:29.640 --> 01:26:32.360] [SPEAKER_14]: It's, you know, you're using your phone company.
[01:26:32.600 --> 01:26:33.960] [SPEAKER_14]: You're tethering to your phone.
[01:26:34.260 --> 01:26:38.020] [SPEAKER_14]: It's not going to be affected by a block in Best Buy or Starbucks or anywhere.
[01:26:38.180 --> 01:26:38.820] [SPEAKER_07]: No, it will.
[01:26:38.980 --> 01:26:40.040] [SPEAKER_07]: I just tried it today.
[01:26:40.240 --> 01:26:40.660] [SPEAKER_07]: I tried.
[01:26:40.800 --> 01:26:42.080] [SPEAKER_07]: I used the Apple computer.
[01:26:42.200 --> 01:26:43.900] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think you're doing it right, then.
[01:26:44.520 --> 01:26:47.760] [SPEAKER_01]: That's when the block list is in the Apple computer that you're using.
[01:26:47.760 --> 01:26:51.460] [SPEAKER_01]: So no matter what you connect it to, it won't see what you want it to see there.
[01:26:51.680 --> 01:27:03.820] [SPEAKER_14]: If you're using your laptop and it's tethered to your phone, and your phone is using your phone network to connect, the only blocks that you will experience are blocks that your phone company has installed, which I don't believe include us.
[01:27:04.160 --> 01:27:06.780] [SPEAKER_07]: No, I'm talking about tethering.
[01:27:07.080 --> 01:27:12.240] [SPEAKER_07]: I had the Citibank at the 22nd meeting to go around their Wi-Fi thing.
[01:27:12.240 --> 01:27:19.100] [SPEAKER_07]: And you could just go to other Wi-Fi hotspots if you want to.
[01:27:19.240 --> 01:27:20.800] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, your phone being one of them.
[01:27:21.320 --> 01:27:23.080] [SPEAKER_07]: Your phone being one of them, right.
[01:27:24.540 --> 01:27:27.200] [SPEAKER_07]: Or you could go on a VPN, right?
[01:27:28.920 --> 01:27:29.320] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[01:27:29.600 --> 01:27:31.420] [SPEAKER_14]: Do you have a 9-11 story for us or not?
[01:27:32.440 --> 01:27:34.200] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, but I just want to ask...
[01:27:34.200 --> 01:27:35.240] [SPEAKER_14]: No, no, we're done with this.
[01:27:35.500 --> 01:27:37.500] [SPEAKER_14]: Quickly, 9-11, or you're going to have to wait for the next one.
[01:27:39.160 --> 01:27:40.080] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, let's see.
[01:27:40.280 --> 01:27:42.200] [SPEAKER_07]: I was doing my laundry.
[01:27:43.360 --> 01:27:44.420] [SPEAKER_07]: I slipped late.
[01:27:46.820 --> 01:27:47.760] [SPEAKER_14]: That's the whole story?
[01:27:48.420 --> 01:27:48.820] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[01:27:49.120 --> 01:27:49.920] [SPEAKER_14]: Never disappoint, Bill.
[01:27:50.160 --> 01:27:50.980] [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you for your call.
[01:27:51.180 --> 01:27:51.520] [SPEAKER_14]: Good night.
[01:27:52.940 --> 01:27:53.920] [SPEAKER_14]: Interesting topic, though.
[01:27:54.660 --> 01:27:57.180] [SPEAKER_14]: I was up early, too, and I'm never up early.
[01:27:57.200 --> 01:27:59.100] [SPEAKER_14]: And you can't wake me up with the phone.
[01:27:59.240 --> 01:28:02.100] [SPEAKER_14]: You can't wake me up by calling me to tell me to turn on a TV set.
[01:28:02.240 --> 01:28:04.600] [SPEAKER_14]: So how did I see 9-11 as it was unfolding?
[01:28:04.600 --> 01:28:06.360] [SPEAKER_14]: I was on jury duty that week.
[01:28:06.360 --> 01:28:08.180] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, so I had to be up early.
[01:28:08.660 --> 01:28:10.040] [SPEAKER_14]: That doesn't happen very often.
[01:28:10.480 --> 01:28:12.480] [SPEAKER_14]: And then jury duty got canceled.
[01:28:13.780 --> 01:28:14.600] [SPEAKER_14]: We have another phone call?
[01:28:15.240 --> 01:28:15.760] [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[01:28:16.000 --> 01:28:16.400] [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[01:28:16.400 --> 01:28:17.780] [SPEAKER_14]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:28:17.840 --> 01:28:18.060] [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead.
[01:28:18.260 --> 01:28:18.960] [SPEAKER_03]: Early in.
[01:28:19.160 --> 01:28:20.040] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it me?
[01:28:20.380 --> 01:28:24.120] [SPEAKER_14]: Please turn down your radio or computer or whatever it is that's blaring on the background.
[01:28:24.280 --> 01:28:24.420] [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, yes, I'm trying.
[01:28:24.520 --> 01:28:24.920] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm trying.
[01:28:25.060 --> 01:28:25.220] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:28:25.440 --> 01:28:25.660] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[01:28:25.800 --> 01:28:26.280] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, cool.
[01:28:28.920 --> 01:28:30.100] [SPEAKER_06]: So I guess it's me.
[01:28:30.100 --> 01:28:32.180] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, one comment.
[01:28:32.680 --> 01:28:39.700] [SPEAKER_06]: How appropriate that Rebel would hijack the transmission or program, whatever you want to call it.
[01:28:39.700 --> 01:28:40.080] [SPEAKER_06]: Too soon.
[01:28:40.340 --> 01:28:41.220] [SPEAKER_14]: Too soon.
[01:28:41.340 --> 01:28:41.900] [SPEAKER_14]: Way too soon.
[01:28:43.760 --> 01:28:44.500] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry.
[01:28:44.600 --> 01:28:45.180] [SPEAKER_06]: I couldn't resist.
[01:28:46.160 --> 01:28:48.880] [SPEAKER_06]: In any case, you know what else I was going to say.
[01:28:49.740 --> 01:28:56.520] [SPEAKER_06]: But the topic, can we get back on the topic that you were treating in the program, which sounded rather interesting?
[01:28:56.620 --> 01:28:57.120] [SPEAKER_14]: We can try.
[01:28:57.120 --> 01:29:02.500] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, so that's really what I wanted to say.
[01:29:02.660 --> 01:29:05.340] [SPEAKER_06]: I want to hear what else you have up your sleeve.
[01:29:05.600 --> 01:29:06.780] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, we have up...
[01:29:06.780 --> 01:29:10.180] [SPEAKER_14]: We've already revealed our sleeve, so it's your turn now.
[01:29:12.820 --> 01:29:17.000] [SPEAKER_06]: I know, but what I mean is, is there going to be more discussion of that?
[01:29:17.160 --> 01:29:19.340] [SPEAKER_14]: If people discuss, you're a person.
[01:29:19.580 --> 01:29:23.000] [SPEAKER_14]: So, yes, you're invited to discuss where you were on that day.
[01:29:25.540 --> 01:29:28.980] [SPEAKER_06]: No, this is not what was being discussed on the radio.
[01:29:29.760 --> 01:29:34.900] [SPEAKER_06]: Or did you just say that now this is the topic for overtime and I missed the first few minutes?
[01:29:35.000 --> 01:29:36.480] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm not sure you listened to the right station.
[01:29:37.100 --> 01:29:39.820] [SPEAKER_14]: We were talking about 9-11, where people were...
[01:29:39.820 --> 01:29:43.520] [SPEAKER_06]: I was listening to WBAI, and you were having a rather interesting conversation.
[01:29:43.520 --> 01:29:45.420] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, Alex, I think you have something to contribute here.
[01:29:45.500 --> 01:29:45.660] [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead.
[01:29:45.800 --> 01:29:54.140] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I think the caller is referencing what we discussed at the end of the program, which was that Russian influence operation.
[01:29:54.320 --> 01:29:56.180] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, the last couple of minutes of the show.
[01:29:56.320 --> 01:29:58.640] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, well, the whole show was pretty much something else, but...
[01:29:58.640 --> 01:30:00.760] [SPEAKER_06]: You said you were going to continue on overtime.
[01:30:00.880 --> 01:30:01.580] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, fair enough.
[01:30:01.580 --> 01:30:03.360] [SPEAKER_06]: The interviews and the contributions and all that.
[01:30:03.580 --> 01:30:05.120] [SPEAKER_06]: So, more of that, please.
[01:30:05.760 --> 01:30:06.780] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, well, we...
[01:30:06.780 --> 01:30:11.840] [SPEAKER_06]: I do remember very well where I was, but, you know, I think that's a little more interesting.
[01:30:12.260 --> 01:30:13.040] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it is.
[01:30:13.220 --> 01:30:15.580] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, it's not necessarily a choice between the two.
[01:30:15.680 --> 01:30:19.440] [SPEAKER_14]: But, yeah, it's something that happened last week.
[01:30:19.980 --> 01:30:34.580] [SPEAKER_14]: And it was basically charges laid out by the Justice Department saying that this particular company is working as part of a Kremlin-orchestrated influence operation, which was targeting the current election.
[01:30:35.100 --> 01:30:40.460] [SPEAKER_14]: And it's linked to right-wing commentators, millions of subscribers on YouTube, other social media platforms.
[01:30:40.760 --> 01:30:44.640] [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, I think we got the gist of it out, that that's what was happening here.
[01:30:44.720 --> 01:30:45.600] [SPEAKER_14]: Alex, did you have anything to add?
[01:30:46.120 --> 01:30:58.420] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I mean, I think this is a really fascinating story, because it goes and shows you the length to which other nations can go and will go.
[01:30:59.000 --> 01:31:01.620] [SPEAKER_10]: In order to try to influence people on social media.
[01:31:01.880 --> 01:31:06.320] [SPEAKER_10]: And social media is such an influence operation attack vector.
[01:31:06.520 --> 01:31:10.800] [SPEAKER_10]: And there are so many open holes in this.
[01:31:11.060 --> 01:31:14.860] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, there's basically no defense against any of this, right?
[01:31:14.980 --> 01:31:17.120] [SPEAKER_10]: Because the whole thing is motivated by money.
[01:31:17.120 --> 01:31:32.680] [SPEAKER_10]: And basically, through proxy, the Kremlin was able to utilize a husband and wife couple to pay influencers that had millions and millions of followers and subscribers on social media platforms.
[01:31:32.680 --> 01:31:38.700] [SPEAKER_10]: I think the total was like a little over six million or something, which is, I believe, more than the circulation of the New York Times.
[01:31:39.800 --> 01:31:57.220] [SPEAKER_10]: And all it took was a little bit of money for them to parrot whatever seemingly ridiculous and far-right political ideals the Russians wanted to espouse that would show dissent in this country and benefit Donald Trump to become the next president of the United States.
[01:31:57.220 --> 01:32:02.040] [SPEAKER_10]: So, it's a really, I think, scary story.
[01:32:02.040 --> 01:32:07.120] [SPEAKER_10]: It goes to show you why social media is such a scourge on this country.
[01:32:07.440 --> 01:32:13.700] [SPEAKER_09]: I just want to point out that the value is really that relative reach through those...
[01:32:13.700 --> 01:32:17.820] [SPEAKER_09]: That audience that's built into those actors they're paying.
[01:32:17.820 --> 01:32:20.240] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's a weird thing.
[01:32:20.400 --> 01:32:29.680] [SPEAKER_09]: I think that the people that are enticed by this are in different circumstances themselves and money is money.
[01:32:29.900 --> 01:32:40.900] [SPEAKER_09]: So, for them, it may have been a windfall for the little effort it would have taken to produce content as they were already.
[01:32:40.900 --> 01:32:53.580] [SPEAKER_09]: And not think of the reach they're gaining the entity that they're becoming the mouthpiece for through this transaction.
[01:32:54.120 --> 01:32:56.780] [SPEAKER_09]: And it really isn't that much money.
[01:32:56.780 --> 01:33:09.240] [SPEAKER_09]: And you have to really have the kind of, I think, ability to think critically before you know... or otherwise before you know it.
[01:33:09.240 --> 01:33:17.700] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, the entity behind things you're working on might not be who you think they are.
[01:33:17.880 --> 01:33:25.120] [SPEAKER_09]: If you're sort of... kind of caught up in your own bravado.
[01:33:25.320 --> 01:34:01.000] [SPEAKER_09]: And especially in this vector, which is a visual and new and sort of richer medium that has a lot to do with sort of popularity and less technical things, less verifiable things, you know, these sort of personality value... the value and ability for people to cash in on that in this way.
[01:34:01.400 --> 01:34:16.580] [SPEAKER_09]: It's really just... they're setting up cameras, they're, you know, establishing themselves through this low-cost streaming ability and whatever other publications and things they're working through.
[01:34:16.840 --> 01:34:20.800] [SPEAKER_09]: But the production costs are low enough.
[01:34:20.800 --> 01:34:30.480] [SPEAKER_09]: So if they're enticed, they can become the arm of of interested parties who are willing to pay that and pay much more.
[01:34:30.780 --> 01:34:41.520] [SPEAKER_14]: Now, if I can just say we've been talking about the influencers, the people who actually make the videos, but the founders are pretty much the ones being implicated here as well.
[01:34:41.880 --> 01:34:43.580] [SPEAKER_14]: Tenant Media's US-based founders.
[01:34:44.100 --> 01:34:48.160] [SPEAKER_14]: They're not named in the indictment, but they certainly should be, I think.
[01:34:48.380 --> 01:34:54.340] [SPEAKER_14]: Business records filed in Tennessee reveal two people connected to the company, Lauren Chen and Liam Donovan.
[01:34:54.680 --> 01:35:02.760] [SPEAKER_14]: A Twitter account for Donovan identifies him as the president of Tenant Media and his Instagram account describes Donovan as Chen's husband.
[01:35:03.040 --> 01:35:08.040] [SPEAKER_14]: A private message between the two in May of 2021 reads as follows.
[01:35:08.280 --> 01:35:11.520] [SPEAKER_14]: So we're billing the Russians from the corporation, right?
[01:35:12.060 --> 01:35:18.660] [SPEAKER_14]: Two weeks later, another message said, also the Russians paid, so we're good to bill them for the next month, I guess.
[01:35:19.120 --> 01:35:19.820] [SPEAKER_14]: My God.
[01:35:20.580 --> 01:35:24.360] [SPEAKER_14]: It's not that they're criminals here.
[01:35:24.400 --> 01:35:25.420] [SPEAKER_14]: It's just that they're bad at it.
[01:35:25.520 --> 01:35:26.880] [SPEAKER_14]: They're really bad at covering things up.
[01:35:27.640 --> 01:35:30.020] [SPEAKER_14]: Chen is a right-wing online influencer in her own right.
[01:35:30.140 --> 01:35:34.800] [SPEAKER_14]: She has appeared in some of Tenant Media's videos, has more than 500,000 subscribers on YouTube.
[01:35:35.560 --> 01:35:43.180] [SPEAKER_14]: The Russian state-controlled media RT lists Chen as a contributor for several articles in 2021 and 2022.
[01:35:43.780 --> 01:35:47.220] [SPEAKER_14]: She's also linked to the conservative youth organization Turning Point USA.
[01:35:47.600 --> 01:35:53.300] [SPEAKER_14]: As of Thursday afternoon, Turning Point USA had deleted webpages featuring Chen.
[01:35:53.880 --> 01:36:01.300] [SPEAKER_14]: A YouTube video referenced in the indictment further describes Tenant Media as a project of Lauren Chen and her husband Liam.
[01:36:01.600 --> 01:36:07.540] [SPEAKER_14]: And then Blaze Media, a subset of the Glenn Beck-founded conservative outlet, has since fired Chen.
[01:36:07.720 --> 01:36:09.620] [SPEAKER_14]: So it's a whole big kerfuffle here.
[01:36:09.740 --> 01:36:10.420] [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead, Rob.
[01:36:11.320 --> 01:36:22.300] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the element of this I'm finding particularly entertaining is, in the article about this, it quotes a couple of the influencers who are saying that, oh, we're obviously the victims in this situation.
[01:36:22.300 --> 01:36:26.980] [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't know that, you know, this was, the Russians were paying for this and whatever.
[01:36:27.220 --> 01:36:29.100] [SPEAKER_01]: But that doesn't acquit you.
[01:36:29.200 --> 01:36:39.580] [SPEAKER_01]: Because if you're being, if you're being given things by a foreign power trying to spread this information to say, and you're being paid for that, okay, that's crappy.
[01:36:39.720 --> 01:36:55.700] [SPEAKER_01]: But if the product you genuinely make and the thing you intentionally put out there as your own work is worth paying for by a Russian or, you know, any foreign actor who is intentionally spreading disinformation, that means you're the disinformation.
[01:36:55.840 --> 01:36:57.880] [SPEAKER_01]: And either way, like, you're the baddies.
[01:36:58.140 --> 01:37:00.000] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, so let me ask Alex this.
[01:37:00.100 --> 01:37:01.280] [SPEAKER_14]: What is the crime exactly?
[01:37:01.540 --> 01:37:05.020] [SPEAKER_14]: Because if it's spreading disinformation, doesn't Trump do that every time he says anything?
[01:37:05.840 --> 01:37:06.440] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[01:37:07.080 --> 01:37:19.720] [SPEAKER_10]: The crime, I believe, was that they failed to register as a foreign agent under FARA, the Foreign Agent Registration Act.
[01:37:19.740 --> 01:37:27.260] [SPEAKER_10]: So if you are acting on behalf of a foreign power in the United States, you need to register as a foreign agent.
[01:37:27.460 --> 01:37:28.800] [SPEAKER_10]: And they didn't do that.
[01:37:28.880 --> 01:37:30.920] [SPEAKER_10]: And the failure to do that is a federal crime.
[01:37:31.580 --> 01:37:46.800] [SPEAKER_09]: So like, if they, if they had set up Tenet in such a way that it was disassociated from wherever their funding source was, then this sloppiness and may not have gotten them caught.
[01:37:47.000 --> 01:37:47.480] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's right.
[01:37:47.640 --> 01:37:51.240] [SPEAKER_09]: And that's why they registered and Tenet was like squeaky.
[01:37:52.400 --> 01:37:57.020] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, if they registered as a foreign agent, and they couldn't be charged under FARA.
[01:37:57.020 --> 01:38:02.020] [SPEAKER_14]: But who would believe them then, if it became known they were working for a foreign government?
[01:38:02.600 --> 01:38:03.300] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, right.
[01:38:03.380 --> 01:38:11.080] [SPEAKER_10]: And that's why that text message was so important, which was because they, they identified that they knew at the time that they were working for the Russians.
[01:38:11.280 --> 01:38:13.680] [SPEAKER_14]: So how is it that, how is it they're not charged?
[01:38:14.760 --> 01:38:15.300] [SPEAKER_14]: The founders?
[01:38:15.300 --> 01:38:15.920] [SPEAKER_14]: I think they are.
[01:38:16.100 --> 01:38:17.980] [SPEAKER_14]: No, the founders were not named in the indictment.
[01:38:19.020 --> 01:38:19.420] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
[01:38:19.460 --> 01:38:20.560] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they're cooperating.
[01:38:21.560 --> 01:38:21.960] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:38:22.240 --> 01:38:23.960] [SPEAKER_09]: They're the ones that, they're the ones that did it.
[01:38:24.040 --> 01:38:24.700] [SPEAKER_09]: They're the founders.
[01:38:24.700 --> 01:38:29.440] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, the media, remember the media company wasn't even, wasn't even referenced or mentioned.
[01:38:30.360 --> 01:38:30.980] [SPEAKER_14]: That's true.
[01:38:31.080 --> 01:38:32.440] [SPEAKER_14]: It was unnamed.
[01:38:32.840 --> 01:38:33.960] [SPEAKER_14]: CNN figured out who they were.
[01:38:34.060 --> 01:38:39.340] [SPEAKER_10]: I think that Chen and the other person were charged, but I guess they weren't.
[01:38:39.500 --> 01:38:41.380] [SPEAKER_10]: And it's just the influencers themselves.
[01:38:41.620 --> 01:38:54.060] [SPEAKER_10]: But I guess it would still be the same charge, but it seems like it would have been much more relevant for the owners of Tenet Media to have been charged under FARA.
[01:38:54.780 --> 01:38:56.000] [SPEAKER_10]: Given that text message.
[01:38:56.140 --> 01:38:56.380] [SPEAKER_10]: Anyhow.
[01:38:56.840 --> 01:38:57.040] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:38:57.600 --> 01:38:58.740] [SPEAKER_10]: But I'd be curious.
[01:38:58.900 --> 01:39:00.520] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sure there's other charges as well.
[01:39:02.660 --> 01:39:05.980] [SPEAKER_10]: Probably some kind of obstruction of something or another.
[01:39:06.480 --> 01:39:10.640] [SPEAKER_10]: And yeah, I don't know, a conspiracy or something like that.
[01:39:10.640 --> 01:39:12.700] [SPEAKER_14]: I'd like to read what the influencers said.
[01:39:13.360 --> 01:39:14.000] [SPEAKER_14]: Let's see.
[01:39:14.000 --> 01:39:24.180] [SPEAKER_14]: We are disturbed by the allegations in today's indictment, which makes clear that myself and other influencers were victims in this alleged scheme.
[01:39:25.120 --> 01:39:28.480] [SPEAKER_14]: That is, they only have the last name, Johnson.
[01:39:29.300 --> 01:39:30.720] [SPEAKER_14]: What was Johnson's first name?
[01:39:31.540 --> 01:39:33.720] [SPEAKER_14]: Boy, they spread it out through this whole story.
[01:39:33.840 --> 01:39:35.360] [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know what Johnson's first name is.
[01:39:35.840 --> 01:39:40.460] [SPEAKER_14]: Tim Pool, on the other hand, said, should these allegations prove true?
[01:39:40.820 --> 01:39:44.720] [SPEAKER_14]: I, as well as the other personalities and commentators, were deceived and are victims.
[01:39:45.280 --> 01:39:46.820] [SPEAKER_14]: So, I mean, that's the playbook.
[01:39:46.920 --> 01:39:47.680] [SPEAKER_14]: That's what they're going by.
[01:39:47.840 --> 01:39:49.000] [SPEAKER_14]: They're the victims here.
[01:39:49.080 --> 01:39:52.120] [SPEAKER_14]: The ones that get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to make videos.
[01:39:52.420 --> 01:39:55.400] [SPEAKER_14]: Because they claim they would have just made them anyway.
[01:39:57.960 --> 01:40:06.060] [SPEAKER_09]: I wonder, in the case of, like, hackers for hire, and, like, how we look at this, and, like, do we sympathize in that case?
[01:40:06.060 --> 01:40:18.940] [SPEAKER_09]: If someone unwittingly is, like, offering services or doing something for hire, and they didn't actually kind of look into it and realize who was actually interested in the kind of work they were doing.
[01:40:18.940 --> 01:40:27.880] [SPEAKER_09]: I think there's a lot of these kinds of perils, because this information space is being used in sort of a weaponized way.
[01:40:28.100 --> 01:40:43.580] [SPEAKER_09]: And I don't have as much sympathy, or I just, like you said, it's a play, because a lot of what they say, I mean, they're saying this with their chest, like, they're really serious about a lot of the things they've espoused.
[01:40:44.100 --> 01:40:53.520] [SPEAKER_09]: It's not like they're unaware of the context of their words, and then to do it for hire like this, and then be surprised when they don't.
[01:40:53.680 --> 01:40:55.120] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sorry, Kyle, did you have something to add?
[01:40:56.520 --> 01:40:56.960] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[01:40:57.640 --> 01:41:09.880] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, as you said, it's a playbook, and I wonder if they weren't just, you know, just in case we get caught, this is the excuse, but they knew perfectly well who they were working for.
[01:41:10.060 --> 01:41:13.160] [SPEAKER_06]: And they didn't care in the best-case scenario.
[01:41:13.420 --> 01:41:23.040] [SPEAKER_06]: In the worst-case scenario, they were accomplices with the media company, and not just, you know, unwitting participants.
[01:41:23.400 --> 01:41:27.560] [SPEAKER_06]: And I wonder if the FBI is going after them for that.
[01:41:27.960 --> 01:41:38.380] [SPEAKER_06]: The other thing, and Alex may confirm this as a legal expert, part of the indictment, including the names, may have been sealed for whatever reason.
[01:41:38.700 --> 01:41:40.420] [SPEAKER_06]: Is that possible, Alex?
[01:41:41.660 --> 01:41:46.100] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, it's definitely possible, especially if there was some kind of cooperating witness.
[01:41:47.560 --> 01:41:51.840] [SPEAKER_10]: There's likely a number of documents that the public aren't going to be able to see on this.
[01:41:51.900 --> 01:41:54.540] [SPEAKER_10]: I think you're absolutely right about that, Kyle.
[01:41:55.120 --> 01:42:00.340] [SPEAKER_10]: And also, I realized as well that I did a little bit of research.
[01:42:00.800 --> 01:42:06.360] [SPEAKER_10]: It turns out that the Justice Department doesn't actually allege any wrongdoing of the influencers.
[01:42:07.740 --> 01:42:25.300] [SPEAKER_10]: It actually accuses two employees of RT, the television station Russia Today, of funneling about $10 million to a Tennessee-based company, that's that tenant company, for the Russian-friendly content.
[01:42:25.560 --> 01:42:29.320] [SPEAKER_10]: So it's these two employees of RT that are charged.
[01:42:29.640 --> 01:42:39.960] [SPEAKER_09]: So maybe the influencers themselves are cooperating to help with that, and they get to say they had no idea...
[01:42:39.960 --> 01:43:00.460] [SPEAKER_14]: Does anyone believe that these people just were blithely making videos, collecting $100,000 checks, and had no idea who they were working for, and we're supposed to believe them, and they don't get charged with anything while helping a hostile government override the election here?
[01:43:00.680 --> 01:43:01.360] [SPEAKER_09]: That's what I mean.
[01:43:01.460 --> 01:43:08.940] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, if this is part of the fifth domain, if this is part of an attack surface, how is this cool?
[01:43:09.080 --> 01:43:09.660] [SPEAKER_09]: How are we chill?
[01:43:09.820 --> 01:43:12.020] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, let's at least destroy their reputation, you know?
[01:43:12.400 --> 01:43:15.560] [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, their actions kind of do that for them.
[01:43:16.840 --> 01:43:18.720] [SPEAKER_06]: I'd like to take it a step further.
[01:43:19.360 --> 01:43:36.740] [SPEAKER_06]: There is no direct connection to the Trump campaign, but, you know, in the woodwork, this, quote, Tennessee company has been connected, and the wife was an executive on whatever conservative, I forget the code name.
[01:43:36.960 --> 01:43:43.460] [SPEAKER_06]: But Trump has been working with these entities, and then denying any accountability.
[01:43:43.940 --> 01:43:46.820] [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, this is an old project of mine.
[01:43:47.000 --> 01:43:52.480] [SPEAKER_06]: I would like to start a RICO case against the Republican Party.
[01:43:52.760 --> 01:44:01.700] [SPEAKER_06]: It's a racketeering institution that is trying to deny people their rights to vote on a gigantic scale.
[01:44:01.700 --> 01:44:06.060] [SPEAKER_06]: And unfortunately, we'll see that on November 7th or 8th.
[01:44:06.060 --> 01:44:07.600] [SPEAKER_06]: I forget the exact date.
[01:44:08.180 --> 01:44:11.480] [SPEAKER_06]: But they've been working for years for this.
[01:44:11.900 --> 01:44:17.140] [SPEAKER_06]: This is, you know, no, no better than the actual mob.
[01:44:17.280 --> 01:44:24.280] [SPEAKER_06]: So they should be prosecuted with this law that is on the book and has been on the book.
[01:44:24.400 --> 01:44:25.140] [SPEAKER_06]: What do you think, Alex?
[01:44:25.360 --> 01:44:26.940] [SPEAKER_14]: No disrespect to the mob, by the way.
[01:44:29.040 --> 01:44:30.040] [SPEAKER_14]: We have to be careful.
[01:44:30.040 --> 01:44:31.260] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:44:31.760 --> 01:44:44.420] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I can certainly appreciate the sentiment of the caller, but I think it would be near impossible to invoke the RICO statute against the Republicans.
[01:44:44.420 --> 01:44:50.120] [SPEAKER_10]: I just think it's, you know, you need to improve a lot of coordination.
[01:44:50.380 --> 01:44:55.960] [SPEAKER_10]: And also, I think it's just, like Emmanuel said, it's almost insulting to the mafia.
[01:44:56.160 --> 01:45:01.080] [SPEAKER_10]: It seems like they're so discoordinated and in some ways.
[01:45:01.480 --> 01:45:05.560] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, and it just has this disastrous result on civil rights.
[01:45:05.740 --> 01:45:07.740] [SPEAKER_10]: It just, you know, kind of happens to be that way.
[01:45:08.900 --> 01:45:09.340] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:45:09.480 --> 01:45:12.320] [SPEAKER_10]: But I can appreciate the sentiment, though, behind that.
[01:45:13.120 --> 01:45:15.100] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I hope that was enough discussion for you.
[01:45:15.320 --> 01:45:17.960] [SPEAKER_14]: And thanks for getting us to talk about it.
[01:45:18.760 --> 01:45:19.380] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.
[01:45:19.520 --> 01:45:20.520] [SPEAKER_06]: Keep up the good work.
[01:45:20.760 --> 01:45:22.380] [SPEAKER_06]: At least you heard it here first.
[01:45:23.140 --> 01:45:25.080] [SPEAKER_06]: As I said, it's an old idea of mine.
[01:45:25.240 --> 01:45:26.540] [SPEAKER_06]: I would love to keep going.
[01:45:26.980 --> 01:45:27.260] [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[01:45:27.360 --> 01:45:28.260] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, best of luck with that.
[01:45:28.360 --> 01:45:31.160] [SPEAKER_14]: And we'll definitely be in the courtroom cheering you on.
[01:45:32.200 --> 01:45:32.560] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[01:45:32.560 --> 01:45:34.040] [SPEAKER_14]: We have time for, I think, one more phone call.
[01:45:34.300 --> 01:45:35.940] [SPEAKER_14]: 802-321-4225.
[01:45:36.140 --> 01:45:37.480] [SPEAKER_14]: 802-321-HACK.
[01:45:37.940 --> 01:45:38.780] [SPEAKER_14]: This is Overtime.
[01:45:39.280 --> 01:45:41.400] [SPEAKER_14]: Coming away every Wednesday, 8 p.m.
[01:45:41.900 --> 01:45:45.680] [SPEAKER_14]: after Off The Hook on WBAI, which you should support.
[01:45:45.920 --> 01:45:54.720] [SPEAKER_14]: give2wbai.org so we can have all kinds of conversations that get transmitted throughout the New York metropolitan area, as they did 23 years ago.
[01:45:55.520 --> 01:45:56.540] [SPEAKER_14]: We have another phone call.
[01:45:56.640 --> 01:45:56.980] [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[01:45:57.160 --> 01:45:58.480] [SPEAKER_14]: You're on Off The Hook, Overtime.
[01:45:58.560 --> 01:45:58.720] [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead.
[01:46:00.220 --> 01:46:01.080] [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening, gang.
[01:46:01.240 --> 01:46:02.040] [SPEAKER_04]: This is Tim in Connecticut.
[01:46:02.040 --> 01:46:02.720] [SPEAKER_04]: How are you today?
[01:46:02.720 --> 01:46:03.560] [SPEAKER_14]: Hey, Tim in Connecticut.
[01:46:03.560 --> 01:46:03.980] [SPEAKER_14]: How are you?
[01:46:04.680 --> 01:46:05.720] [SPEAKER_04]: Not too bad.
[01:46:06.140 --> 01:46:08.320] [SPEAKER_04]: A couple of quick stories about 9-11.
[01:46:08.920 --> 01:46:10.760] [SPEAKER_04]: I was working nights at the time.
[01:46:11.080 --> 01:46:15.200] [SPEAKER_04]: My nephew from Chicago calls me to ask me to turn on the TV.
[01:46:15.980 --> 01:46:18.520] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's how I was presented with it.
[01:46:18.820 --> 01:46:23.260] [SPEAKER_04]: But one other story, I had to fly for work a couple of weeks later.
[01:46:23.720 --> 01:46:28.420] [SPEAKER_04]: And on the way back, I happened to be sitting in a row with a military person.
[01:46:29.100 --> 01:46:33.060] [SPEAKER_04]: And we were chatting, you know, because of the current events.
[01:46:33.920 --> 01:46:36.180] [SPEAKER_04]: And he made mention that he was a pilot.
[01:46:36.560 --> 01:46:38.820] [SPEAKER_04]: And he was flying that day.
[01:46:40.200 --> 01:46:42.380] [SPEAKER_04]: Or the next day, I believe it was.
[01:46:42.620 --> 01:46:51.760] [SPEAKER_04]: And he said the thing that he will remember, most of all, is the fact that when you're in the air, you know, with military hardware, you can see almost everybody.
[01:46:52.800 --> 01:46:58.320] [SPEAKER_04]: And he said that only military IDs were in the air.
[01:46:59.360 --> 01:47:03.660] [SPEAKER_04]: And it was very, very spooky that this once crowded airspace was just so empty.
[01:47:05.140 --> 01:47:19.180] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I remember that day, um, when I was going back the next morning after going into, um, uh, Manhattan to, um, um, presumably do a show I never got to do, um, pretty much out all night with friends.
[01:47:19.220 --> 01:47:24.180] [SPEAKER_14]: And it was, it was dawn when I was going back through Queens and just remember how quiet it was.
[01:47:24.180 --> 01:47:30.960] [SPEAKER_14]: There was nothing in the sky, you know, maybe, maybe an occasional military plane because the airspace was completely closed throughout the country.
[01:47:31.480 --> 01:47:36.500] [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, yeah, that was bizarre and weird and, uh, kind of a once in a lifetime thing.
[01:47:36.520 --> 01:47:39.500] [SPEAKER_04]: There's nothing going on if Air Queens, I mean, or, or LaGuardia.
[01:47:40.540 --> 01:47:41.540] [SPEAKER_14]: Most definitely not.
[01:47:43.380 --> 01:47:58.160] [SPEAKER_04]: And as far as, um, the people accepting money from various sources, maybe they were taking, I don't know, maybe a, uh, uh, oh, you know, the, the new policy in government where it's not a bribe.
[01:47:58.260 --> 01:48:00.720] [SPEAKER_04]: If it's before it's a tip when you do it afterwards.
[01:48:02.700 --> 01:48:03.100] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[01:48:03.220 --> 01:48:05.000] [SPEAKER_14]: I think they might've gotten paid before though.
[01:48:05.700 --> 01:48:07.820] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm not sure that that would have been good advice.
[01:48:08.080 --> 01:48:09.120] [SPEAKER_04]: You don't care where it comes from.
[01:48:09.260 --> 01:48:20.220] [SPEAKER_14]: If you're pending the rules, you know, if you've gone that far, I, you know, I just, I just think at the very least, can we just never believe anything these people say again, because this is, this is their integrity level.
[01:48:22.660 --> 01:48:23.000] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[01:48:23.000 --> 01:48:24.440] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I just wanted to pass that on.
[01:48:24.580 --> 01:48:25.940] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll let other people get on the line.
[01:48:26.160 --> 01:48:26.340] [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[01:48:26.440 --> 01:48:27.200] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, good to hear from you.
[01:48:27.320 --> 01:48:27.680] [SPEAKER_14]: Take care.
[01:48:28.180 --> 01:48:29.120] [SPEAKER_04]: With you guys again.
[01:48:29.400 --> 01:48:29.620] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[01:48:29.820 --> 01:48:29.820] Night.
[01:48:30.060 --> 01:48:30.320] [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[01:48:32.020 --> 01:48:34.620] [SPEAKER_14]: I did say that was the last call, but it was a short call.
[01:48:34.620 --> 01:48:35.580] [SPEAKER_14]: So I don't know.
[01:48:36.180 --> 01:48:37.020] [SPEAKER_14]: I have a couple of minutes.
[01:48:38.280 --> 01:48:38.820] [SPEAKER_14]: That's right.
[01:48:39.180 --> 01:48:41.340] [SPEAKER_14]: We should set a hard end time for this show.
[01:48:41.420 --> 01:48:43.220] [SPEAKER_09]: You got off the line so someone else could talk.
[01:48:43.420 --> 01:48:45.500] [SPEAKER_14]: Like, uh, nine o'clock, we're done.
[01:48:45.500 --> 01:48:48.440] [SPEAKER_14]: Because sometimes we go to like nine 30, sometimes we end at eight 30.
[01:48:48.820 --> 01:48:55.240] [SPEAKER_14]: But if we just say it's going to go to nine o'clock, maybe, maybe overtime gets the same level of respect as off the hook.
[01:48:55.940 --> 01:49:00.140] [SPEAKER_14]: You know, we have four minutes and 30 seconds.
[01:49:01.340 --> 01:49:02.340] [SPEAKER_14]: That's a disadvantage.
[01:49:04.000 --> 01:49:08.160] [SPEAKER_10]: Remember when we would do the two hour shows and WBAI and the station.
[01:49:08.360 --> 01:49:10.840] [SPEAKER_10]: And to me, it always felt like a really long time.
[01:49:11.320 --> 01:49:15.080] [SPEAKER_10]: I feel like we, we do these two hour shows now almost every week.
[01:49:15.080 --> 01:49:17.440] [SPEAKER_14]: I guess you weren't around for the three hour shows we did occasionally.
[01:49:18.420 --> 01:49:21.200] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, maybe I, maybe I was at some point.
[01:49:21.560 --> 01:49:24.820] [SPEAKER_14]: It's all in the archive, 2600.com/offthehook.
[01:49:24.880 --> 01:49:25.680] [SPEAKER_14]: And we have another phone call.
[01:49:26.120 --> 01:49:26.720] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh joy.
[01:49:27.180 --> 01:49:28.720] [SPEAKER_14]: Um, we have a connected Kyle.
[01:49:28.960 --> 01:49:29.080] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[01:49:29.640 --> 01:49:30.160] [SPEAKER_14]: And good evening.
[01:49:30.300 --> 01:49:31.100] [SPEAKER_14]: You're on off the cover time.
[01:49:31.180 --> 01:49:31.380] [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead.
[01:49:32.920 --> 01:49:35.340] [SPEAKER_15]: I just wanted to share my nine 11 story.
[01:49:35.720 --> 01:49:41.120] [SPEAKER_15]: Um, I was, I was, I was a student at a Manhattan, a borough of Manhattan community college, BMCC.
[01:49:42.180 --> 01:49:45.940] [SPEAKER_15]: And, um, I had a late night class the night before nine 11.
[01:49:46.140 --> 01:49:49.140] [SPEAKER_15]: And my class ended like, I want to say like eight 30 or something.
[01:49:49.700 --> 01:49:51.160] [SPEAKER_15]: And I had to make a phone call.
[01:49:51.320 --> 01:49:53.640] [SPEAKER_15]: So I went into that building, the nine 11 building.
[01:49:53.820 --> 01:49:54.940] [SPEAKER_15]: This is like late at night.
[01:49:54.940 --> 01:49:57.120] [SPEAKER_15]: They used to have phones on the first floor.
[01:49:57.120 --> 01:49:59.680] [SPEAKER_14]: But you mean the, the world trade center when you say the nine 11 building.
[01:49:59.760 --> 01:50:00.200] [SPEAKER_15]: The world trade center.
[01:50:00.480 --> 01:50:00.700] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[01:50:00.900 --> 01:50:01.080] [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[01:50:01.080 --> 01:50:03.920] [SPEAKER_14]: I remember all those phones and the escalators near them.
[01:50:04.000 --> 01:50:05.160] [SPEAKER_14]: And yeah, I remember this.
[01:50:05.520 --> 01:50:05.580] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[01:50:06.800 --> 01:50:08.920] [SPEAKER_15]: So I went in there to make some telephone calls.
[01:50:09.020 --> 01:50:17.200] [SPEAKER_15]: And while I was there, um, somebody I knew from like high school, he came out of the escalator and he, he works in the building, works on top in that building.
[01:50:17.760 --> 01:50:19.880] [SPEAKER_15]: And I was like, wow, I haven't seen a long time.
[01:50:20.080 --> 01:50:20.920] [SPEAKER_15]: We were shaking hands.
[01:50:21.000 --> 01:50:24.660] [SPEAKER_15]: And I was like, wow, he works up there and we got to talking and I was curious.
[01:50:24.840 --> 01:50:26.120] [SPEAKER_15]: I was like, I've never been up there before.
[01:50:26.120 --> 01:50:28.700] [SPEAKER_15]: You know, he said he works on, like, the top, the high of floors.
[01:50:29.160 --> 01:50:31.820] [SPEAKER_15]: And while we're talking, he asked me if I want to see what it's like.
[01:50:31.900 --> 01:50:33.800] [SPEAKER_15]: He was like, well, you want to trim a plane, you want to tour?
[01:50:33.980 --> 01:50:36.200] [SPEAKER_15]: I was like, yeah, sure, I'd love it, I've never been up there before.
[01:50:37.000 --> 01:50:39.340] [SPEAKER_15]: So we got back on the elevator and we went up there.
[01:50:39.420 --> 01:50:43.340] [SPEAKER_15]: We went up to, like, on the floor it was, very, very high up there.
[01:50:44.640 --> 01:50:48.080] [SPEAKER_15]: And I remember looking through the windows like, wow, I'm flying into air.
[01:50:48.200 --> 01:50:52.660] [SPEAKER_15]: I'd never been... I remember commenting that I've never been this high in any building before.
[01:50:52.660 --> 01:50:55.600] [SPEAKER_15]: Like, furthest up I've ever been.
[01:50:56.060 --> 01:50:58.460] [SPEAKER_15]: And I was looking out the window and it was just surreal.
[01:50:58.920 --> 01:51:01.040] [SPEAKER_15]: And then that was it.
[01:51:01.080 --> 01:51:03.360] [SPEAKER_15]: And then I just went back down and I went home.
[01:51:03.940 --> 01:51:06.100] [SPEAKER_15]: And then the next day, the building was knocked down.
[01:51:06.300 --> 01:51:06.680] [SPEAKER_15]: I was blown up.
[01:51:06.740 --> 01:51:08.700] [SPEAKER_15]: And I was thinking, I was calling this guy.
[01:51:08.820 --> 01:51:09.600] [SPEAKER_15]: I didn't know this guy.
[01:51:09.680 --> 01:51:12.000] [SPEAKER_15]: This is a guy just... I hadn't seen him since high school.
[01:51:12.960 --> 01:51:17.540] [SPEAKER_15]: So, and I started looking for his number because I was thinking, gee, I wonder what happened.
[01:51:17.700 --> 01:51:19.340] [SPEAKER_15]: And he wouldn't answer the phone.
[01:51:19.460 --> 01:51:21.860] [SPEAKER_15]: And I was just calling and calling because we exchanged numbers that day.
[01:51:22.940 --> 01:51:28.680] [SPEAKER_15]: And, but eventually I was able to get in touch with him something like maybe two weeks or three weeks after, a long time after.
[01:51:29.180 --> 01:51:30.720] [SPEAKER_15]: And I thought he was dead, honestly.
[01:51:30.820 --> 01:51:33.180] [SPEAKER_15]: I thought something happened to him because I was like, this is just so strange.
[01:51:33.180 --> 01:51:34.260] [SPEAKER_15]: I just saw him the night before.
[01:51:34.700 --> 01:51:35.780] [SPEAKER_15]: I wonder what happened.
[01:51:37.020 --> 01:51:38.660] [SPEAKER_15]: And it turned out he was okay, though.
[01:51:38.740 --> 01:51:39.780] [SPEAKER_15]: He lived and he was fine.
[01:51:40.320 --> 01:51:42.420] [SPEAKER_15]: But I also got a job.
[01:51:42.940 --> 01:51:49.540] [SPEAKER_15]: After the 9-11 thing happened, I happened to get a job, like some type of a transport job.
[01:51:49.680 --> 01:51:56.520] [SPEAKER_15]: We were driving around vans, you know, like the rescue people and all the work that we're doing out there, you know, removing debris and all that kind of stuff.
[01:51:56.520 --> 01:51:58.760] [SPEAKER_15]: I had a night job that I was doing there.
[01:51:59.240 --> 01:52:12.960] [SPEAKER_15]: And I recently found out that they're actually having these things, almost like, I don't know if it's a lawsuit, but they're actually compensating people who worked there, who worked at this 9-11 site.
[01:52:13.740 --> 01:52:15.300] [SPEAKER_15]: And I saw this on Facebook.
[01:52:15.520 --> 01:52:25.480] [SPEAKER_15]: This law firm was like, hey, listen, if you worked at 9-11, if you worked at that site back then, you should contact us because, you know, we may be able to compensate you for whatever.
[01:52:26.520 --> 01:52:27.200] [SPEAKER_15]: So I did.
[01:52:27.360 --> 01:52:31.580] [SPEAKER_15]: I was like, I started looking for my pay stubs to see if, you know, maybe I have a pay stubs from back then.
[01:52:31.620 --> 01:52:32.440] [SPEAKER_15]: And I found one.
[01:52:32.840 --> 01:52:34.540] [SPEAKER_15]: And I contacted this law firm.
[01:52:35.100 --> 01:52:38.420] [SPEAKER_15]: And they said, hey, you may be able to get some money for whatever.
[01:52:40.140 --> 01:52:41.960] [SPEAKER_15]: So I just recently started that.
[01:52:42.060 --> 01:52:42.840] [SPEAKER_15]: And let's see what happens.
[01:52:42.920 --> 01:52:43.740] [SPEAKER_15]: Let's see where that goes.
[01:52:43.860 --> 01:52:44.740] [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know, you know.
[01:52:45.260 --> 01:52:49.380] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, have you been affected physically by being down there?
[01:52:50.140 --> 01:52:51.280] [SPEAKER_15]: I haven't been affected.
[01:52:51.400 --> 01:52:53.060] [SPEAKER_15]: And I'm not going to say that I ever was.
[01:52:53.160 --> 01:52:56.120] [SPEAKER_15]: I was saying to myself, I'm not going to be one of these people who are going to make up stories.
[01:52:56.520 --> 01:52:57.360] [SPEAKER_15]: So that's like bad.
[01:52:57.440 --> 01:52:58.180] [SPEAKER_15]: That's bad karma.
[01:52:58.400 --> 01:53:03.520] [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not going to say I have whatever, you know, but, you know, that's bad.
[01:53:03.660 --> 01:53:05.480] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you'd have to prove it to some other way, I'm sure.
[01:53:05.620 --> 01:53:08.940] [SPEAKER_14]: But I don't know what the legal aspects of this is.
[01:53:09.020 --> 01:53:12.900] [SPEAKER_14]: You might still be entitled to something just for having put yourself through that.
[01:53:13.380 --> 01:53:14.780] [SPEAKER_14]: That's certainly possible.
[01:53:14.980 --> 01:53:16.420] [SPEAKER_15]: And I may have something in the future.
[01:53:16.560 --> 01:53:18.760] [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, I'm still, I'm just like in my 40s.
[01:53:18.860 --> 01:53:20.500] [SPEAKER_15]: I'm still, I guess, relatively young, I suppose.
[01:53:20.500 --> 01:53:23.540] [SPEAKER_14]: You are one of the luckiest people I think I've ever talked to.
[01:53:23.740 --> 01:53:28.620] [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, you got to, you got to see the top of the World Trade Center the day before it was destroyed.
[01:53:29.000 --> 01:53:32.120] [SPEAKER_15]: Your, your, your, your, your friend was survived.
[01:53:32.600 --> 01:53:37.160] [SPEAKER_14]: And, and, and thank God you're, you're, you're healthy after working on the site.
[01:53:37.160 --> 01:53:38.460] [SPEAKER_14]: So I hope your luck continues.
[01:53:39.320 --> 01:53:40.280] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I know.
[01:53:40.460 --> 01:53:41.120] [SPEAKER_15]: Very weird.
[01:53:41.320 --> 01:53:42.900] [SPEAKER_15]: But I just wanted to share that story.
[01:53:43.100 --> 01:53:44.100] [SPEAKER_15]: I enjoyed your show, though.
[01:53:44.260 --> 01:53:45.500] [SPEAKER_14]: I think Alex has a question.
[01:53:45.600 --> 01:53:46.020] [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead, Alex.
[01:53:46.500 --> 01:53:51.360] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, but you, you must have been, because you were at BMCC, right?
[01:53:51.480 --> 01:53:53.600] [SPEAKER_10]: That, is that over in Tribeca, I think?
[01:53:53.960 --> 01:53:54.700] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, yeah.
[01:53:54.860 --> 01:53:57.480] [SPEAKER_15]: They used to have a building that we, I'm not sure if that building is still there.
[01:53:57.520 --> 01:54:01.420] [SPEAKER_15]: We call, we used to call it the F-Man, F-Man building, Fittiman, Fittiman Hall building.
[01:54:01.860 --> 01:54:06.080] [SPEAKER_15]: And it was that building, it was just right next door to the World Trade Center.
[01:54:06.940 --> 01:54:08.560] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah, it's like right there.
[01:54:08.940 --> 01:54:09.060] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:54:09.680 --> 01:54:10.860] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, you know.
[01:54:11.040 --> 01:54:11.820] [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I went to school.
[01:54:11.900 --> 01:54:14.080] [SPEAKER_15]: I was, my, my class just ended just the night before.
[01:54:14.200 --> 01:54:14.840] [SPEAKER_15]: It was just strange.
[01:54:14.840 --> 01:54:15.700] [SPEAKER_15]: It was just weird.
[01:54:16.020 --> 01:54:19.360] [SPEAKER_15]: I was just telling everybody, like, I was just in that building just a few hours ago.
[01:54:19.520 --> 01:54:22.360] [SPEAKER_15]: Literally, like, let's say, 12 hours later, the building was gone.
[01:54:22.580 --> 01:54:23.440] [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it was just weird.
[01:54:24.160 --> 01:54:24.680] [SPEAKER_15]: You know?
[01:54:24.720 --> 01:54:25.060] [SPEAKER_15]: Amazing.
[01:54:25.860 --> 01:54:26.840] [SPEAKER_15]: It was just strange.
[01:54:26.980 --> 01:54:27.580] [SPEAKER_15]: Very sad.
[01:54:27.880 --> 01:54:28.340] [SPEAKER_15]: Very sad.
[01:54:28.440 --> 01:54:34.540] [SPEAKER_15]: I kept thinking, I kept thinking all those people I'd seen in the building when I was going up there, when I was in there, I wonder how many of them lived.
[01:54:34.700 --> 01:54:36.980] [SPEAKER_15]: I kept thinking, I wonder, so probably a ton of them were dead.
[01:54:37.820 --> 01:54:40.220] [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it was just, just surreal.
[01:54:40.220 --> 01:54:41.780] [SPEAKER_14]: Well, Night Shift, I don't know.
[01:54:41.940 --> 01:54:44.060] [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe they didn't... they weren't supposed to come in until later.
[01:54:44.180 --> 01:54:44.620] [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[01:54:44.900 --> 01:54:48.360] [SPEAKER_14]: But it's definitely history that we all lived through.
[01:54:49.480 --> 01:54:50.780] [SPEAKER_14]: Alright, thanks for sharing that with us.
[01:54:50.840 --> 01:54:51.680] [SPEAKER_15]: Enjoy the show.
[01:54:51.840 --> 01:54:52.020] [SPEAKER_15]: Alright.
[01:54:52.940 --> 01:54:53.400] [SPEAKER_14]: Take care.
[01:54:55.320 --> 01:54:57.480] [SPEAKER_14]: That's a great call to end on, I think.
[01:54:58.820 --> 01:54:59.200] [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[01:54:59.200 --> 01:55:00.460] [SPEAKER_14]: That's an extraordinary story.
[01:55:00.460 --> 01:55:01.360] [SPEAKER_14]: A lot of good stories.
[01:55:01.480 --> 01:55:03.520] [SPEAKER_14]: Even Rebel's story was touching, in a way.
[01:55:04.680 --> 01:55:05.340] [SPEAKER_14]: What was it?
[01:55:05.460 --> 01:55:05.920] [SPEAKER_14]: Three words?
[01:55:06.700 --> 01:55:07.080] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[01:55:07.080 --> 01:55:07.100] [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[01:55:08.380 --> 01:55:08.860] [SPEAKER_14]: But...
[01:55:08.860 --> 01:55:09.440] [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, my God.
[01:55:10.000 --> 01:55:14.400] [SPEAKER_14]: I'm just glad we have each other to talk to, and share these memories.
[01:55:15.260 --> 01:55:21.160] [SPEAKER_14]: Albeit unpleasant memories, but also comforting, just to be able to tell our stories.
[01:55:21.480 --> 01:55:24.740] [SPEAKER_14]: And, again, everybody you know has a story.
[01:55:25.180 --> 01:55:29.340] [SPEAKER_14]: Whether it's about this or something else, and talking to them is an important thing.
[01:55:30.740 --> 01:55:33.400] [SPEAKER_14]: So, any final words before we sign off for the night?
[01:55:34.800 --> 01:55:37.740] [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, choose your cyber gangs wisely.
[01:55:38.580 --> 01:55:39.020] [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[01:55:39.600 --> 01:55:40.040] [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[01:55:40.300 --> 01:55:41.700] [SPEAKER_14]: That's something we should say every week.
[01:55:43.860 --> 01:55:48.780] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, act with empathy and kindness, and also vote with them.
[01:55:49.600 --> 01:55:50.040] [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[01:55:50.360 --> 01:55:50.740] [SPEAKER_14]: Good.
[01:55:50.920 --> 01:55:51.060] [SPEAKER_14]: Good.
[01:55:51.260 --> 01:55:53.540] [SPEAKER_14]: I feel like pressure's on now for everybody to say something wise.
[01:55:54.300 --> 01:55:54.740] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:55:54.880 --> 01:55:56.560] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm just gonna go with what Rob said.
[01:55:56.660 --> 01:55:56.860] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:55:56.880 --> 01:55:57.460] [SPEAKER_10]: That sounds good.
[01:55:57.560 --> 01:55:57.840] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:55:57.920 --> 01:55:59.340] [SPEAKER_14]: What Rob said, it's fine.
[01:55:59.580 --> 01:56:00.020] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:56:00.020 --> 01:56:01.120] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, indeed.
[01:56:02.920 --> 01:56:03.460] [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[01:56:03.660 --> 01:56:06.220] [SPEAKER_14]: Again, oth@2600.com is our email address.
[01:56:06.240 --> 01:56:06.980] [SPEAKER_14]: We'll see you next week.
[01:56:07.100 --> 01:56:07.280] [SPEAKER_14]: Good night.