Off The Hook - 2024-10-16

[00:14.910 --> 00:19.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you for choosing MCI as your long-distance carrier.
[00:19.650 --> 00:22.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Your easy OnePlus dialing service has been activated.
[00:23.110 --> 00:24.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: We appreciate your business.
[00:25.850 --> 00:26.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: KPR.
[00:27.690 --> 00:28.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: PDD.
[00:38.380 --> 00:41.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and try again.
[00:41.900 --> 00:45.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you need help, stay on the line, and a hacker will assist you shortly.
[00:53.880 --> 00:56.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: So I ripped it off the wall.
[00:56.980 --> 00:59.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: I cut myself off shaving.
[00:59.600 --> 01:01.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now I can't make a call.
[01:02.180 --> 01:04.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: We couldn't get much worse.
[01:06.960 --> 01:09.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, Bum Diddly Bum, but the best is back from worse.
[01:10.380 --> 01:12.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hope that's understood.
[01:12.520 --> 01:13.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Bum Diddly Bum!
[02:16.890 --> 02:19.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:19.310 --> 02:20.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: The program is off the hook.
[02:21.070 --> 02:23.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:23.330 --> 02:24.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm joined tonight by Kyle.
[02:25.290 --> 02:25.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi.
[02:26.330 --> 02:28.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: Out in Skype-land, we have Alex.
[02:28.570 --> 02:29.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you do.
[02:29.510 --> 02:29.830]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening.
[02:30.390 --> 02:30.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's it.
[02:31.110 --> 02:32.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: Small staff tonight.
[02:32.490 --> 02:35.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, yeah, let's have fun with that.
[02:36.410 --> 02:45.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a nice autumnal evening as we barrel towards Decision Day in this country and all kinds of fun ahead.
[02:45.950 --> 02:51.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyone have anything, any adventures that they've embarked upon in the past week they wish to share?
[02:52.090 --> 02:52.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: No?
[02:52.750 --> 02:53.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Plenty of adventure.
[02:53.770 --> 02:54.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead, Alex.
[02:55.170 --> 03:04.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I was, I guess over the last week, week and a half, I was in London, which, you know, I did the show there, I guess two weeks ago, right?
[03:04.810 --> 03:18.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then after that, I was in Oxford for a day and a half, two days, and then over to Rome for an Ethereum Rome hackathon and spent the weekend there and judged a whole bunch of projects that are...
[03:19.160 --> 03:29.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's interesting to me because in the Ethereum world, hackers is used synonymously with builders as a term, you know, as programmers, right?
[03:29.230 --> 03:31.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: People that are doing innovative things and creating innovative things.
[03:31.830 --> 03:37.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: Those are the hackers that work all weekend on these applications that exist on the blockchain in some way or another.
[03:37.630 --> 03:41.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then I got to judge some of these projects and give away some money.
[03:41.410 --> 03:41.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: So it was very cool.
[03:41.990 --> 03:51.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it was really interesting to see the use of the word hacker not to be synonymous with a criminal, but synonymous with a builder, the way it's supposed to be.
[03:51.910 --> 03:53.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I thought that was very cool.
[03:54.430 --> 03:54.870]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[03:54.990 --> 04:00.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not isolated to that community either, the maker community and certainly, obviously, the hacker community.
[04:00.410 --> 04:04.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think a number of people get that hackers are positive influences.
[04:05.150 --> 04:09.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, you can use hacking skills to do negative things, and that does happen in the criminal world.
[04:10.290 --> 04:30.610]  [SPEAKER_00]: But here we are, three hackers on the air, talking about it and reporting on it and basically coming up with ways to make things better and maybe not make stupid mistakes, which we focus a lot of time on, stupid mistakes that are made in the corporate world that result in all of our privacy being compromised without any permission from us.
[04:30.990 --> 04:32.670]  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's that as well.
[04:33.750 --> 04:34.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: Kyle and I had a fun adventure.
[04:35.130 --> 04:42.130]  [SPEAKER_00]: We were in, what do you call it, MetLife Stadium in Jersey Monday night for Monday Night Football just because we got invited.
[04:42.130 --> 04:46.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: And they give out these devices to all the people in the stands.
[04:46.710 --> 04:54.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like the mask games in North Korea where they all flash in unison because we could never figure out how to hold all the cards up and get it just right.
[04:54.870 --> 04:57.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: We can barely hold the flashing light.
[04:57.750 --> 05:02.010]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was kind of interesting to figure out what was happening here.
[05:02.090 --> 05:04.130]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think, Kyle, you had a theory that it's IR.
[05:04.130 --> 05:08.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, the game was just so riveting.
[05:08.930 --> 05:14.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: I was sitting there and I just finally started taking it apart and basically like cracked it open.
[05:14.230 --> 05:18.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just a little rectangular board with two RGB LEDs.
[05:18.770 --> 05:28.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then in the middle of it, there's a couple of small chips, but there's like a IR or some kind of light receiver.
[05:29.390 --> 05:37.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's how it gets signals to do one or the other color at a different time or in synchronization.
[05:37.750 --> 05:38.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: Was it only two colors?
[05:39.250 --> 05:41.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: It was a lot of different colors, actually.
[05:41.010 --> 05:41.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: It was, okay.
[05:41.410 --> 05:43.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: Like whites, reds, greens.
[05:43.630 --> 05:48.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, a selection of what is, of course, possible with the RGB LED.
[05:48.570 --> 05:54.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: But just imagining that and how it worked, it piqued my curiosity.
[05:54.110 --> 05:55.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, how is this getting a signal?
[05:56.070 --> 06:00.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: What is it doing to run these different patterns and stuff?
[06:00.150 --> 06:00.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I may be wrong about this.
[06:01.050 --> 06:06.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: I could swear this was happening where people in the upper deck were one color and people in the lower deck were a different color.
[06:06.630 --> 06:10.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: And if that's the case, how is it telling where you are specifically in the stadium?
[06:11.010 --> 06:14.570]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I might not have seen that properly because it happened rather fast.
[06:14.570 --> 06:24.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's... whenever you have tens of thousands of similar devices all on at the same time, there's all kinds of craziness that can ensue.
[06:27.010 --> 06:27.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[06:27.930 --> 06:35.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: It had to have been orchestrated in some way with different timing throughout the event.
[06:35.870 --> 06:39.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think the company is Pixmob.
[06:39.170 --> 06:45.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: I saw that logo and I think they're somewhere in Canada because it said it was made with love in Montreal.
[06:46.590 --> 06:46.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: So...
[06:46.950 --> 06:47.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: It said that?
[06:47.690 --> 06:48.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, on the PCB.
[06:49.150 --> 06:51.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: But you had to crack it open to get to that point where you could read that.
[06:52.150 --> 06:52.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[06:52.830 --> 06:54.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: That is why we hack things.
[06:54.290 --> 06:54.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: Alex, go ahead.
[06:55.290 --> 06:57.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: So you don't have to give these back.
[06:57.170 --> 06:58.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: These are single-use devices?
[06:58.710 --> 06:59.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I hope not.
[06:59.330 --> 07:00.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: We broke it in half.
[07:05.870 --> 07:09.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: People just basically grabbing one as you walk in after you check your tickets.
[07:10.230 --> 07:15.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I stopped E and said, hey, did you want to get one of the whatever the heck this is?
[07:15.790 --> 07:16.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know it existed.
[07:17.510 --> 07:18.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Me either.
[07:18.470 --> 07:18.650]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[07:18.830 --> 07:20.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was a fun little toy to play with.
[07:21.370 --> 07:25.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it took our minds off the game, which is always a good thing when you're there.
[07:26.570 --> 07:29.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: But it was just a fun little device.
[07:29.730 --> 07:34.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'd like to see how these things are used in daily life more and more.
[07:34.490 --> 07:39.010]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it had two coin cell batteries, so I'm up to two three-volt batteries.
[07:39.070 --> 07:43.930]  [SPEAKER_00]: And mine's on the kitchen table, so in case the jets come by, they start the thing flashing.
[07:44.270 --> 07:48.570]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure what the range is either, you know, how far away you have to be or how long these things last.
[07:48.730 --> 07:49.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Alex?
[07:49.970 --> 07:55.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I can probably get a whole bunch of information about these types of devices.
[07:55.410 --> 07:59.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I used to work at the NFL, having been their chief information security officer.
[08:00.150 --> 08:00.890]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, did you?
[08:01.750 --> 08:03.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you should be able to tell us something about this.
[08:03.990 --> 08:06.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well, you probably have, like...
[08:06.090 --> 08:07.430]  [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, you should have known about this already.
[08:08.550 --> 08:10.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, maybe, I guess.
[08:10.230 --> 08:13.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, this, I think, would fall more under the realm of the IT department.
[08:13.430 --> 08:17.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I happen to know a few people over there that may be able to answer some of our questions.
[08:17.770 --> 08:20.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, definitely, yeah, the show running end of it.
[08:20.490 --> 08:21.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: But it was still fascinating.
[08:21.890 --> 08:29.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: And we're always looking at the technical side and production side of how that all comes together.
[08:29.690 --> 08:30.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's fun.
[08:30.450 --> 08:30.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's pretty interesting.
[08:30.830 --> 08:42.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: When you're at a game like that, watching what's going on on the field that's not the game, you know, the people with the cameras, the people with clipboards and all kinds of other doodads that they're carrying around with them.
[08:43.530 --> 08:47.930]  [SPEAKER_00]: There are hundreds of people involved doing different things, each one assigned to a different task.
[08:48.090 --> 08:54.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you just focus on what someone else is doing, you can learn quite a bit about how such mass events take place.
[08:55.850 --> 08:57.590]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, that was a bit of an adventure.
[08:58.070 --> 08:59.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: And we saw the comet, which...
[08:59.970 --> 09:01.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: Not there.
[09:01.270 --> 09:01.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: We tried.
[09:01.930 --> 09:03.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: But there's too many lights.
[09:03.670 --> 09:05.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: You two can still see the comet.
[09:05.510 --> 09:06.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: We almost gave up on it.
[09:06.790 --> 09:07.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: We almost gave up on the comet.
[09:07.990 --> 09:09.630]  [SPEAKER_00]: You have to wait about a half hour after sunset.
[09:09.630 --> 09:17.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: It was a really fantastic magnitude, but just at the horizon where the sun was setting, there was a cluster of clouds.
[09:17.450 --> 09:18.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it took us quite a while.
[09:18.850 --> 09:20.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, we were about to give up.
[09:20.410 --> 09:21.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: So don't give up on it.
[09:21.550 --> 09:23.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: If you go out, spend the time.
[09:23.770 --> 09:26.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not a waste, because you could be surprised.
[09:26.210 --> 09:30.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think you were just glancing, and it was in your field of vision all of a sudden.
[09:30.030 --> 09:31.010]  [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't what I was expecting.
[09:31.150 --> 09:32.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: I was expecting something tiny.
[09:32.170 --> 09:34.890]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was much bigger, but it was more diffuse.
[09:35.070 --> 09:37.590]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was dimmer, but it was clearly a comet.
[09:37.590 --> 09:42.250]  [SPEAKER_00]: But it just appeared higher in the sky than I expected, sort of next to Venus.
[09:42.530 --> 09:44.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: You have to have a good view of the western sky.
[09:44.490 --> 09:49.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, if you see the sun go below the horizon and it's a clearer night, then you have a good chance a half hour later of seeing it.
[09:50.070 --> 09:51.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: Only until the end of the month, though.
[09:51.450 --> 09:54.630]  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not sure if there's any chance after that.
[09:54.770 --> 09:57.670]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think pretty much the comet's going away for another 80,000 years.
[09:57.890 --> 09:58.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad I went.
[09:58.710 --> 09:59.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't convinced.
[09:59.950 --> 10:02.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't too thrilled with the idea, but it was time well spent.
[10:02.910 --> 10:03.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad we did.
[10:03.430 --> 10:07.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think you and I saw a couple of comets back in the 1990s, didn't we?
[10:07.670 --> 10:08.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we did.
[10:08.690 --> 10:17.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: I remember going way out east somewhere, presumably like the North Fork or something, with a bunch of us, right?
[10:17.430 --> 10:22.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: I remember we even had an astronomer, a friend of ours, that was with us, I believe.
[10:22.710 --> 10:24.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we went out to see these comets.
[10:25.070 --> 10:27.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, those were fun times.
[10:27.410 --> 10:28.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Those are great times.
[10:28.550 --> 10:33.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's always worthwhile to head out to the middle of nowhere and stare up at the sky.
[10:33.570 --> 10:33.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[10:33.830 --> 10:38.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you want more times like that, with more comets in the future, you have to support WBAI.
[10:39.950 --> 10:40.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: Because...
[10:41.170 --> 10:42.010]  [SPEAKER_00]: Bear with me here.
[10:42.570 --> 10:44.470]  [SPEAKER_00]: Because we're talking about it right now.
[10:44.850 --> 10:49.930]  [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe you're making plans at this moment to go and see the damn comet before it goes away.
[10:50.010 --> 10:52.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: And you wouldn't have done that if you weren't listening to WBAI.
[10:52.570 --> 10:56.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: So give2wbai.org is our website.
[10:57.250 --> 10:58.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: Give2wbai.org.
[10:58.830 --> 11:03.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: There are all kinds of options there on ways you can pledge and show your support.
[11:03.350 --> 11:09.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: WBAI has been on the air in New York City since 1960 as a non-commercial radio station.
[11:09.330 --> 11:12.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: And we have survived every single day because of listeners like you.
[11:12.890 --> 11:14.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: And listeners who aren't like you as well.
[11:14.790 --> 11:21.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: Listeners all over the world have pitched in to help keep 99.5 FM broadcasting to the greater New York area.
[11:21.970 --> 11:25.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: And now to the world from WBAI.org.
[11:26.590 --> 11:27.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[11:27.330 --> 11:31.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now we have a lot of different things that are going on this week.
[11:31.230 --> 11:34.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think the theme kind of is funny headlines.
[11:35.330 --> 11:38.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of really bizarre, weird headlines.
[11:38.590 --> 11:39.470]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to read one.
[11:40.010 --> 11:42.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'd like you guys to tell me what you think this story is about.
[11:42.330 --> 11:42.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: You ready?
[11:43.470 --> 11:48.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: Illinois State Historical Society Strikes Back Against Star Wars Facebook Hack.
[11:49.190 --> 11:49.630]  [SPEAKER_00]: Huh?
[11:50.870 --> 11:53.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll read it again if that went too fast.
[11:53.330 --> 11:58.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: Illinois State Historical Society Strikes Back Against Star Wars Facebook Hack.
[11:59.310 --> 12:01.650]  [SPEAKER_00]: And this comes from WCIA TV.
[12:01.850 --> 12:03.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not a joke either, by the way.
[12:03.370 --> 12:06.670]  [SPEAKER_00]: There is a TV station in Illinois called WCIA.
[12:06.930 --> 12:08.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: And they're a CBS affiliate.
[12:08.550 --> 12:10.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, they have a big eye staring at you.
[12:10.510 --> 12:11.610]  [SPEAKER_00]: But that's neither here nor there.
[12:12.430 --> 12:13.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: Alex, a theory on this?
[12:14.790 --> 12:17.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: Remind me who the subject of the sentence was.
[12:18.130 --> 12:19.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: You just want me to read it again?
[12:19.230 --> 12:19.550]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not...
[12:19.550 --> 12:20.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a headline.
[12:20.350 --> 12:21.630]  [SPEAKER_00]: You want me to read the headline one more time?
[12:21.930 --> 12:22.010]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a headline.
[12:22.010 --> 12:22.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[12:22.110 --> 12:27.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: Illinois State Historical Society Strikes Back Against Star Wars Facebook Hack.
[12:28.910 --> 12:29.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[12:30.190 --> 12:31.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, there's some historical...
[12:31.390 --> 12:32.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, I guess...
[12:32.250 --> 12:45.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: I guess the Historical Society was archiving something from a Facebook page that related specifically to Star Wars fandom or historical things that was hacked.
[12:45.030 --> 12:46.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: It was altered.
[12:46.570 --> 12:49.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: The Historical Society's mission was thwarted.
[12:50.110 --> 12:54.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: And now they're fighting back in some way or another.
[12:54.230 --> 12:55.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: You could not be more wrong.
[12:55.590 --> 12:55.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
[12:56.730 --> 13:01.890]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to read you from the WCIA story, which is going to involve a bit of cuteness.
[13:02.090 --> 13:03.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry about that.
[13:03.310 --> 13:07.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: The force is not with the Illinois State Historical Society on Facebook.
[13:07.450 --> 13:14.130]  [SPEAKER_00]: The Springfield-based not-for-profits Facebook page has been infiltrated by a hacker.
[13:14.130 --> 13:22.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: The hacker, or maybe hackers, shortened the name to just Historical Society on September 21st.
[13:22.350 --> 13:25.030]  [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of Illinois State Historical Society, they just went Historical Society.
[13:25.310 --> 13:29.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: And they have posted nothing but dozens of Star Wars theme posts since.
[13:30.110 --> 13:33.550]  [SPEAKER_00]: And there's your Star Wars connection there.
[13:33.970 --> 13:51.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: The page which used to share Illinois trivia and important historical anniversaries now posts Star Wars memes, birthday shout-outs to cast members, and various reviews and opinions on the Disney-owned franchise, including their favorite movie, which, by the way,
[13:51.130 --> 13:52.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: is Revenge of the Seath.
[13:53.950 --> 13:57.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: Star Wars Rebels was absolutely amazing and quite emotional.
[13:57.250 --> 14:03.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: One post on the former Historical Society's Facebook page reads, reads, the last five episodes were a clear 10 of 10.
[14:03.970 --> 14:04.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hot take.
[14:04.630 --> 14:07.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people question if Aksuka...
[14:07.730 --> 14:11.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to pronounce it wrong, but Aksuka is a Jedi, another reads.
[14:12.310 --> 14:21.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: But the way I see it, her walking away from the Order at the time that she did, when the Order had seemingly lost their way, makes her wiser than anyone who was on the Council at the time, even Yoda.
[14:23.210 --> 14:24.790]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they've lost the page.
[14:25.050 --> 14:26.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's no longer theirs.
[14:26.530 --> 14:31.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: They have since created a new Facebook page and encourage everyone to follow for their regular content.
[14:33.390 --> 14:33.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[14:34.810 --> 14:46.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: While some diehard fans may want the hacked page frozen in carbonite, impersonation of a person, celebrity, or businesses violates Meta, the owner of Facebook, Meta's community standards.
[14:46.230 --> 14:49.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: The company has a guide on how to report the profile on their help center.
[14:50.190 --> 14:54.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: WCIA reached out to the Illinois State Historical Society, has not heard back.
[14:54.850 --> 14:59.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: And when they do, they will probably hear back from the Star Wars people, because I'm sure they hacked their phones as well.
[14:59.690 --> 15:01.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: But this is, you know, it's Facebook.
[15:01.570 --> 15:02.650]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is what happens on Facebook.
[15:02.890 --> 15:12.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: You lose... somehow you lose your page, someone else takes it over, nobody answers at Facebook, and everybody just kind of moves on, and some of us have a good laugh.
[15:15.660 --> 15:16.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Or couldn't care less.
[15:16.900 --> 15:18.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we can move on to another story.
[15:19.500 --> 15:23.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, this shouldn't be funny, but it does make me laugh.
[15:24.240 --> 15:30.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hackers... and again, they're blaming hackers because it involves something being hacked.
[15:31.000 --> 15:39.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, you can call everybody who hacks anything a hacker, but the official hacker view on something like this, I don't think, would be endorsement.
[15:40.600 --> 15:41.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: But it is funny.
[15:42.040 --> 15:47.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hackers made robot vacuums randomly yell racial slurs in people's homes.
[15:48.720 --> 15:50.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: And are you going to be okay there, Alex?
[15:50.700 --> 15:53.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: I see you've collapsed on the floor laughing hysterically.
[15:53.460 --> 15:55.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, that's just...
[15:56.060 --> 15:58.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: I've never had a vacuum cleaner speak to me.
[15:58.940 --> 16:02.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: I've certainly never had a vacuum cleaner yell out racial slurs.
[16:03.080 --> 16:05.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: But apparently that's the world we're living in now.
[16:05.940 --> 16:09.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: Robot vacuums across the country have been hacked.
[16:09.860 --> 16:11.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: This only took a couple of days.
[16:11.580 --> 16:24.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: And ABC News reports it allowed the attackers to not only control the robo-vacs, but use their speakers to hear racial slurs and abusive comments at anyone nearby.
[16:24.300 --> 16:27.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: Because what is an undeveloped mind going to do?
[16:27.500 --> 16:28.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: But something like that.
[16:28.760 --> 16:35.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: All of the affected robots were of the same make and model, which is the Chinese-made EchoVac D-Bot X2.
[16:36.000 --> 16:45.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: So if you have a Chinese-made EchoVac D-Bot X2 in your home, keep the children away and maybe put it in the garage or something.
[16:45.380 --> 16:45.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[16:46.300 --> 16:54.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: This particular robo-vac has developed a reputation for being easy to hack, thanks to a critical security flaw, which I wish I had in front of me.
[16:56.000 --> 17:00.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: ABC News, for instance, was able to get full control over one of the robots, including the camera.
[17:01.180 --> 17:03.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: But ABC News will not tell us how they did that.
[17:04.100 --> 17:08.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: One victim of this week's hacks was a Minnesota lawyer named Daniel Swenson.
[17:08.840 --> 17:15.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: He told ABC that he was watching TV when the robots started making weird noises, like a broken-up radio signal or something.
[17:15.780 --> 17:22.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: Through the app, Swenson could tell that a stranger was accessing the live camera feed and the remote control feature.
[17:22.820 --> 17:26.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: He reset the password, rebooted the vacuum, and that's when the weirdness really started.
[17:27.120 --> 17:31.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: It immediately started moving again of its own accord, and the speakers began emitting a human voice.
[17:31.880 --> 17:36.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: This voice was yelling racial obscenities right in front of Swenson's son.
[17:37.580 --> 17:40.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: I got the impression it was a kid, maybe a teenager, said Swenson.
[17:41.240 --> 17:44.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they were just jumping from device to device, messing with families.
[17:45.180 --> 17:51.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: Ultimately, he said, it could have been much worse, such as if the vacuum silently spied on his family for days on end.
[17:51.920 --> 17:56.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I gotta ask, why do vacuums need to have cameras?
[17:56.360 --> 18:01.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: Why do they need to be able to be controlled by anybody on the planet, apparently?
[18:02.100 --> 18:06.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: What happened to just pushing a damn vacuum on the rug and being done with it?
[18:08.600 --> 18:10.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that remains to be seen.
[18:10.480 --> 18:23.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I have a Roomba robot vacuum cleaner, and it does speak to me sometimes, mostly just when it's stuck and it needs to be removed or something like that, but I don't think it has any kind of intercom function.
[18:23.240 --> 18:26.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't really understand the point of that.
[18:26.260 --> 18:34.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it would be for some kind of support or tech help or something like that, that you can speak to somebody through the vacuum itself.
[18:34.520 --> 18:38.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: It seems pretty idiotic when everybody has a phone, anyway.
[18:39.460 --> 18:41.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: But this is really bizarre.
[18:41.860 --> 18:54.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I have to say, it is really kind of hilarious, the fact that somebody could do this, and the amount of havoc you could wreak within people's homes, taking over vacuums and talking to them.
[18:54.180 --> 18:55.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: It could really drive someone nuts.
[18:56.040 --> 18:57.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: But why does it even have a speaker?
[18:58.580 --> 19:01.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: In what context would a vacuum need to speak to you?
[19:02.460 --> 19:05.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess in this context, if it wants to hurl racial abuse at you.
[19:05.740 --> 19:06.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the only one I can think of.
[19:07.880 --> 19:08.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's really bizarre.
[19:08.760 --> 19:19.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: So apparently, the root of the issue is a security flaw that allows bad faith actors to bypass the required four-digit security pin in order to gain control of the vacuum.
[19:20.220 --> 19:24.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, even if you don't bypass it, four digits is not that much.
[19:24.520 --> 19:28.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: And how do you access this thing from, say, a different country?
[19:28.940 --> 19:31.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: How do you access somebody's vacuum?
[19:31.280 --> 19:36.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: You figure that out, and you just have a four-digit pin in your way, you'll probably get control of it.
[19:36.420 --> 19:41.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: But they've managed to bypass the four-digit pin and just be able to take over the things.
[19:42.100 --> 19:44.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Apparently, this started back in December of last year.
[19:45.340 --> 19:51.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a flaw also in the Bluetooth connector that allows for complete access from up to 300 feet away.
[19:52.780 --> 19:58.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: But since these attacks occurred throughout the entire country, it's unlikely that it was a Bluetooth issue.
[19:58.460 --> 19:59.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: But that's another issue.
[19:59.840 --> 20:03.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess the kids can take over the vacuum when the parents are trying to do something.
[20:03.720 --> 20:04.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[20:04.200 --> 20:05.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, yes, Alex.
[20:05.520 --> 20:07.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, maybe I just have a theory.
[20:07.240 --> 20:32.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe what they were doing or how they were able to broadcast their voices through the vacuum was perhaps by accessing some kind of administrative console and then replacing the pre-recorded voice prompts that would otherwise be stored within the vacuum with their own voices and then playing them at some point instead of error codes or error messages or troubleshooting codes or something like
[20:32.700 --> 20:33.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: that.
[20:33.220 --> 20:43.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: They just recorded racial abusive types of epithets that they then hurled, I guess, around the country at people through their vacuums.
[20:44.060 --> 20:55.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that would be my guess as to how they would do it would be to essentially upload a pre-recorded message that would then overwrite something that was on the vacuum itself.
[20:56.460 --> 20:57.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: That would be smart.
[20:57.440 --> 21:02.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like when I borrow your phone and replace the Waze prompts for GPS with my own voice.
[21:03.280 --> 21:03.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[21:03.940 --> 21:04.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I get it now.
[21:05.100 --> 21:05.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
[21:05.960 --> 21:06.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Something like that.
[21:06.820 --> 21:06.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[21:07.240 --> 21:07.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[21:08.020 --> 21:20.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's an effect of sort of the abundance or the wealth of cheap, highly capable semiconductors.
[21:21.060 --> 21:31.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: So the thing is just needing to do certain tasks, but it's often the case with some of these devices that it is much more capable.
[21:31.300 --> 21:33.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's designed to do a certain thing.
[21:33.200 --> 21:52.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then because it has certain features that allow it to be controlled remotely, then someone can basically reinterpret what its functionality is, given all the features that are capable with the types of chips and things that control it.
[21:52.680 --> 22:01.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: it's not as limited as maybe 10 or 20 or 30 years ago, where it would be in a mechanical system or sort of a mechanical robot.
[22:01.320 --> 22:06.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: And like the need for it to visualize a room would require a camera.
[22:07.060 --> 22:20.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: The need, like Alex was pointing out, to give errors or announce it's entering a room to clean or that it's complete or that it's going to its charging station, that all requires a speaker.
[22:20.600 --> 22:29.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: So its limited use is really only narrowed by the firmware and the original software that's on it.
[22:29.560 --> 22:43.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: But once it's in its intended environment, if that environment's compromised, then there's a willing actor or attacker that wants to make use of all of those features.
[22:43.020 --> 22:48.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: It then becomes a viable target that could do these kinds of things with relative ease.
[22:49.100 --> 23:01.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there are general purpose computers that are loaded with software for sort of a limited single purpose, but they're still fully capable computers in many cases.
[23:01.460 --> 23:09.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, this whole thing is going to be a plot point in some movie or TV show where somebody is being spied upon by law enforcement through their vacuum cleaner.
[23:09.840 --> 23:16.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: And their vacuum cleaner is watching them commit a crime, following them around the house, and maybe even telling them they're under arrest.
[23:18.300 --> 23:21.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is the world we choose to live in right now.
[23:21.640 --> 23:22.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, speaking of...
[23:22.420 --> 23:24.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mentioned Waze before, and that reminded me.
[23:24.560 --> 23:27.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: I had one hell of a misadventure with Waze.
[23:27.480 --> 23:32.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, it involved that Jets game because I was looking for directions to get around.
[23:32.600 --> 23:36.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: And boy, did that program flip out on me.
[23:37.080 --> 23:40.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: It started giving bad information, completely bad information.
[23:40.560 --> 23:44.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: It would say things like, in 300 meters...
[23:46.100 --> 23:48.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then it wouldn't say anything after that.
[23:48.740 --> 23:50.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: It just said that.
[23:50.200 --> 23:54.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then, maybe three minutes later, it would finish the sentence.
[23:54.820 --> 24:03.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: Except by that point, depending on how fast I was going, I was either well past that point or I was nowhere near that point yet.
[24:03.760 --> 24:10.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: Either way, hearing that, you know, make a right on Route 212 or whatever made absolutely no sense when it was finally spoken.
[24:10.880 --> 24:13.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: This kind of thing was going on all night long.
[24:13.420 --> 24:15.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: And in fact, it wasn't the only thing happening with my phone.
[24:16.060 --> 24:19.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: I was trying to reach somebody, and I kept calling them.
[24:19.660 --> 24:21.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: They kept hanging up as soon as I called.
[24:21.700 --> 24:23.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: That happens quite a bit with me.
[24:23.200 --> 24:27.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, in this case, they didn't really know who I was, so it didn't make any sense.
[24:28.480 --> 24:33.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Later, I was trying to talk to Kyle, who was stuck in a car behind an ambulance for about a half hour.
[24:33.680 --> 24:35.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: He was trying to tell me what was going on.
[24:36.520 --> 24:38.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: And he was trying to call me.
[24:38.960 --> 24:41.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: And every time I picked up the phone, didn't hear anything.
[24:41.680 --> 24:42.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: I called him.
[24:43.020 --> 24:44.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: He hung up every time I called him.
[24:44.340 --> 24:45.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: At least that's what it appeared to be.
[24:46.080 --> 24:51.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: Turns out there was something spectacularly wrong with my phone, which was only fixed by rebooting it.
[24:51.940 --> 24:58.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: But there was absolutely no clue that there was a problem other than the fact that I couldn't actually establish a voice connection.
[24:59.060 --> 25:00.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: I've never heard of this before.
[25:00.660 --> 25:03.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a phone that stops being a phone.
[25:03.140 --> 25:06.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: That is completely useless and broken.
[25:06.560 --> 25:08.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: And the only solution is to reboot.
[25:08.800 --> 25:09.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like rebooting.
[25:10.020 --> 25:10.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like rebooting computers.
[25:11.080 --> 25:12.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like rebooting phones.
[25:12.240 --> 25:13.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: I like to keep things going.
[25:14.260 --> 25:18.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: And if I do have to reboot, at least tell me there's a problem that requires a reboot.
[25:19.100 --> 25:25.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: But this, you know, it literally cuts off the one thing the phone is designed for, and that's to make phone calls.
[25:26.580 --> 25:29.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'd like to know if anyone else has had something like that happen.
[25:29.500 --> 25:32.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was really frustrating.
[25:32.040 --> 25:37.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: A terribly surprising amount of fragility in the basic functionality of it.
[25:37.500 --> 25:39.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, eventually we were just texting each other.
[25:39.400 --> 25:45.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't sure you were getting my text, so we had to make sure we were both quote-unquote hearing each other on SMS or equivalent.
[25:46.880 --> 25:49.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: But we still couldn't get the phone to actually work.
[25:49.400 --> 25:52.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't know if it was your phone, my phone, the phone network.
[25:53.020 --> 25:56.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: There was, you know, a little way to figure out exactly what was happening.
[25:56.460 --> 25:58.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: Alex, have you ever had anything like that happen to you?
[26:01.460 --> 26:05.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Other than not unmuting yourself and talking to nobody?
[26:07.360 --> 26:10.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: He's continuing to talk and he doesn't realize that we're not...
[26:10.700 --> 26:11.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: we can't hear him.
[26:11.920 --> 26:12.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: There you are.
[26:12.600 --> 26:12.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: There you are.
[26:13.420 --> 26:14.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: Can you hear us now?
[26:15.580 --> 26:16.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[26:16.780 --> 26:17.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know we are.
[26:18.000 --> 26:19.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's always something.
[26:19.580 --> 26:20.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me tell you.
[26:20.200 --> 26:21.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's always that.
[26:21.580 --> 26:22.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's always that.
[26:22.220 --> 26:23.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: You don't hit the button.
[26:23.380 --> 26:25.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hit the button now and tell us what's going on.
[26:25.420 --> 26:26.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's not the button.
[26:26.440 --> 26:29.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's that I'm using my iPhone...
[26:29.020 --> 26:30.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Speaking of phones not functioning, right?
[26:30.960 --> 26:34.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm using my iPhone as a microphone through Skype here.
[26:35.480 --> 26:36.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: So that's the...
[26:36.800 --> 26:38.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: that's the tricky thing here.
[26:38.480 --> 26:40.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then just randomly it'll stop working.
[26:40.740 --> 26:42.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: So now I'm going to...
[26:42.220 --> 26:43.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: I actually don't even have the option anymore.
[26:44.060 --> 26:45.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: So I guess you just answered my question.
[26:45.520 --> 26:47.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you have had things like this happen to you.
[26:47.820 --> 26:51.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, every once in a while I do feel like it's...
[26:52.800 --> 26:54.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: it's necessary to reboot the phone.
[26:54.440 --> 27:02.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's mostly because I feel like I have a lot of difficulty sometimes with my iPhone not connecting to the right towers.
[27:02.560 --> 27:12.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Especially if I come back or if I'm traveling a lot internationally and I come back it seems like I don't have the right data connections and then I need to reboot.
[27:12.620 --> 27:37.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: But even though you don't like to reboot a manual I would say especially for iPhone users it's a pretty damn good idea I think to reboot your phone maybe once a week or at least once a month or something because a lot of spyware or malware that could be implanted on an iPhone does not necessarily have persistence meaning that if you reboot the phone itself the malware may have to reimplant itself
[27:37.500 --> 27:50.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: in some way you may have to be reinfected so if your phone was compromised and you reboot it it may be a way to remove that particular compromise So, I do think it's a good idea to reboot your phones.
[27:50.280 --> 27:52.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's a real ringing endorsement for iPhones.
[27:53.240 --> 27:55.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: You have to reboot them to get the malware out.
[27:55.900 --> 27:57.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: I've never had malware on my phone.
[27:57.540 --> 27:58.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: I never assumed I had it.
[27:58.800 --> 28:04.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just light some... I burn some sage and just kind of blow the evil spirits out.
[28:04.480 --> 28:09.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what you need to do with an Android phone because, you know, presumably all the malware there is persistent.
[28:10.080 --> 28:11.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: You reboot it and it sticks around, right?
[28:11.680 --> 28:15.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: They have a revision to the OS every two days, it seems.
[28:15.460 --> 28:16.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, I always have to reboot anyway.
[28:16.760 --> 28:19.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: But they're commanding me to do it then.
[28:19.260 --> 28:27.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: What I really don't like, though, is computer operating systems that insist that you keep rebooting because, you know, I keep things going for long periods of time.
[28:27.500 --> 28:34.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: I have systems that have been up for months, you know, connected, not connected, still getting updates and things like that.
[28:34.640 --> 28:43.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, lately, especially with OSs like Windows, they feel they can just reach in and reboot when they feel like it.
[28:43.660 --> 28:47.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't matter if you lose work as a result because maybe you're asleep or something.
[28:47.940 --> 28:49.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: This didn't used to happen.
[28:49.320 --> 28:51.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's something that I think people are getting too used to.
[28:52.040 --> 28:56.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not something I plan on accepting anytime soon.
[28:57.220 --> 28:57.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[28:57.820 --> 28:59.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, well, look, our schedules don't matter.
[28:59.540 --> 29:01.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's the machines that matter these days, right?
[29:01.440 --> 29:05.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: We have to make sure that they're happy, that they're attended to, that they're cared for.
[29:05.860 --> 29:07.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: They have the right air conditioning, the right temperature.
[29:08.180 --> 29:09.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Their cores are okay.
[29:09.480 --> 29:10.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: They have enough space.
[29:12.000 --> 29:14.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, their memory isn't failing.
[29:14.260 --> 29:16.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: All this has to be, you know, we can take care of the machines.
[29:17.180 --> 29:18.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: Better than you take care of a baby.
[29:19.120 --> 29:20.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they're more demanding.
[29:21.600 --> 29:21.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[29:22.200 --> 29:23.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes they are.
[29:23.280 --> 29:30.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, having gone through far more computers than I have children, I can attest to that.
[29:30.880 --> 29:31.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[29:31.640 --> 29:35.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Our email address for OffTheHook, oth@2600.com.
[29:35.660 --> 29:41.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to share your experiences, ideas, advice, things like that, we'd love to hear from you.
[29:43.260 --> 29:48.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Continuing with our fun headline saga of the week, this is a good one.
[29:48.780 --> 29:52.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: Firm hacked after accidentally hiring North Korean cyber criminal.
[29:53.120 --> 29:56.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, who can say this has never happened to them?
[29:56.840 --> 30:00.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: We've all accidentally hired somebody that we have no idea who they are.
[30:00.260 --> 30:08.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: But a company has apparently been hacked after accidentally hiring a North Korean cyber criminal as a remote IT worker.
[30:08.600 --> 30:09.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: The unidentified...
[30:09.940 --> 30:10.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: Why are they unidentified?
[30:10.800 --> 30:12.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they should be publicly shamed for this.
[30:12.920 --> 30:13.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: I really do.
[30:14.060 --> 30:16.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: And certainly, if they've been hacked, they will be identified.
[30:17.420 --> 30:22.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: The unidentified firm hired the technician after he faked his employment history and personal details.
[30:23.520 --> 30:28.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Aren't those the things that you check when you do the background check of the person you're hiring?
[30:29.640 --> 30:36.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: Once given access to the company's computer network, the hacker downloaded sensitive company data and sent a ransom demand.
[30:36.740 --> 30:38.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: The firm, which is based in the UK...
[30:38.780 --> 30:40.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: Wait a minute.
[30:40.120 --> 30:40.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
[30:41.020 --> 30:42.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is a BBC story.
[30:42.840 --> 30:44.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's written weirdly.
[30:44.460 --> 30:50.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: The firm, which is based in the UK, US, or Australia, did not want to be named.
[30:51.660 --> 30:52.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: They're hiding them further.
[30:53.280 --> 30:57.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: Because apparently, if BBC can say they don't want to be named, they've talked to them.
[30:57.980 --> 31:00.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: And they've asked BBC, please don't name us.
[31:00.400 --> 31:07.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: So BBC said, okay, what we'll do is we'll put in three countries and people can choose which one they think you're from.
[31:07.140 --> 31:08.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: But that'll protect you even more.
[31:08.940 --> 31:11.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: So we know they're in the UK, US, or Australia.
[31:11.240 --> 31:12.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now I really want to know who they are.
[31:12.400 --> 31:13.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Can we call this hirejacking?
[31:14.220 --> 31:15.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I like that.
[31:15.900 --> 31:16.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hirejacking.
[31:16.720 --> 31:17.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hirejacking.
[31:17.420 --> 31:19.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: Go on the site and trademark that quickly before somebody else does.
[31:19.780 --> 31:20.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[31:20.380 --> 31:21.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a name for this kind of a tag?
[31:21.960 --> 31:22.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, neither is.
[31:22.880 --> 31:23.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: Kyle just made one up.
[31:24.000 --> 31:24.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: I like that.
[31:24.740 --> 31:26.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you can't just use that out there.
[31:27.000 --> 31:28.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: We got new hirejacked.
[31:28.660 --> 31:28.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[31:30.540 --> 31:30.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[31:31.440 --> 31:38.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: It has allowed cyber responders from SecureWorks to report the hack to spread awareness and warn others.
[31:38.260 --> 31:39.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: The company has, that is.
[31:39.280 --> 31:43.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the latest in the string of cases of Western remote workers being unmasked.
[31:43.740 --> 31:45.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: as North Koreans.
[31:45.240 --> 31:46.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: Have you hired anyone lately, Alex?
[31:47.100 --> 31:49.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: You might have hired a North Korean without realizing it.
[31:50.380 --> 31:55.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, but this has been a problem for quite a while now, for several years.
[31:55.240 --> 32:05.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's been a pretty well-known MO of the North Koreans to embed themselves mostly in cryptocurrency or digital asset type platforms.
[32:05.580 --> 32:16.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: This has been one of their really kind of core strength areas in trying to steal digital assets to essentially supplement their treasury and fund their nuclear weapons programs.
[32:17.140 --> 32:18.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: And so they've gotten really good at this.
[32:18.380 --> 32:25.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: And they have this plethora of usually China-based, highly trained, and skilled programmers at the ready.
[32:25.960 --> 32:28.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you can bring them into your organization.
[32:28.860 --> 32:30.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they often have resumes.
[32:30.980 --> 32:32.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: They've got references.
[32:32.720 --> 32:39.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, they've got everything that you would want, even if you were doing some kind of background check on this particular contractor.
[32:40.180 --> 32:44.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: And so it's, I think, a really big and difficult problem to solve.
[32:46.200 --> 33:00.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes, I guess, you know, it would make sense if you were trying to establish some kind of process by which to catch these bad guys, to do some kind of, you know, FaceTime, you know, actually see the people, look at their backgrounds, look at their environments,
[33:00.980 --> 33:03.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: you know, make sure they're, you know, they're in an actual room or, you know.
[33:04.580 --> 33:06.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: But this has been a really big problem.
[33:06.940 --> 33:19.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think a lot of companies right now, at this very moment, probably have North Korean IT workers or programmers within their systems and have no idea about it whatsoever.
[33:19.600 --> 33:21.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: It seems easy enough to fix.
[33:21.220 --> 33:22.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: Just don't do that.
[33:22.360 --> 33:26.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't hire people without talking to them, seeing them, hopefully in person.
[33:26.800 --> 33:34.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: But if you have to hire somebody remotely, at least do your due diligence and look up, you know, talk to people who have worked with them.
[33:34.800 --> 33:38.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, this is kind of, you deserve what you get if you're not being careful.
[33:39.220 --> 33:46.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think even if you are careful, you can still get caught by this particular scam because they, you know, they have call centers that are dedicated to providing these references.
[33:46.920 --> 33:53.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's pretty easy to pull together some kind of synthetic personality and background, a LinkedIn profile.
[33:53.360 --> 33:58.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: But Alex, Alex, you can put together a call center, but that's not for a company you've heard of.
[33:58.840 --> 34:01.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Because if it's a company you've heard of, you can call that company.
[34:01.480 --> 34:06.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, we've, you know, things I've been involved in.
[34:06.160 --> 34:08.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: We have done checking.
[34:08.320 --> 34:10.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it involves a little bit of detective work.
[34:10.280 --> 34:14.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: See if this phone number, why does it have an area code of a different country?
[34:14.680 --> 34:16.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: You check into that.
[34:16.220 --> 34:21.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: You find people, real people, that actually verify that they exist if you can't talk to them directly.
[34:22.340 --> 34:25.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: And you check for history of various sorts.
[34:25.460 --> 34:34.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, another methodology that the North Koreans have been using very similar to this is actually to create real companies and have them exist.
[34:35.080 --> 34:46.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: And they may even actually have some kind of corporate history, but they then approach other companies, mostly that work in the digital asset sphere, and promote some kind of joint venture with this particular company.
[34:46.800 --> 34:59.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: They go through all the paces, all the steps, you go through all of the due diligence, and you sign a deal with this joint venture company that is actually comprised entirely of North Korean threat actors that you've just let into your environment.
[34:59.360 --> 35:03.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, I posit that maybe it's not even North Korean workers.
[35:03.260 --> 35:03.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's AI.
[35:04.980 --> 35:05.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, seriously.
[35:06.160 --> 35:07.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: AI could...
[35:07.080 --> 35:10.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: And they could do a hundred different jobs at the same time.
[35:10.720 --> 35:11.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: They could.
[35:11.260 --> 35:13.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: A good human could do multiple jobs, too, and not get caught.
[35:14.020 --> 35:26.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, AI makes this a lot easier, especially, you know, when it comes to language difficulties and language anomalies that would allow somebody to detect whether or not this was a North Korean threat actor or, you know, somebody legitimately from South Korea.
[35:26.420 --> 35:30.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's definitely making it harder and easier for the threat actors to evade detection.
[35:31.060 --> 35:33.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: There could be illegitimate people from South Korea, too, you know.
[35:34.120 --> 35:35.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: And good people in North Korea.
[35:35.720 --> 35:36.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: So don't forget that.
[35:37.160 --> 35:37.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[35:37.360 --> 35:53.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think this isn't a reflection of widely held best practices as far as hiring for this particular position, not in governmental organizations or your, like, Fortune 500 or, you know, top companies.
[35:53.960 --> 36:02.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that the idea of having a remote administration role, it's just a little fishy.
[36:02.660 --> 36:11.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think that those kinds of organizations would weigh the liability, those sorts of risks.
[36:11.860 --> 36:38.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: And as Alex pointed out, go through probably a much, maybe a much more rigorous recruiting effort that involved some kind of on-site interviewing with a counterpart, maybe in country or wherever they are, to give it an actual check as far as who this person is.
[36:38.400 --> 36:49.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because with that role, you're just granting access to such a wide, open, operational surface area that it just wouldn't... it doesn't make sense.
[36:49.920 --> 36:59.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that this is a real type of occupation for serious enterprises, in my opinion.
[36:59.440 --> 37:00.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, maybe this is quite common.
[37:01.020 --> 37:04.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so removed from all of it anyway that I don't know.
[37:04.200 --> 37:07.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if I have a valid take in the first place.
[37:08.060 --> 37:09.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: But that's my impression.
[37:09.120 --> 37:15.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's another case of a North Korean IT worker who was caught attempting to hack their employer in July.
[37:16.610 --> 37:26.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: That worker was hired by the cyber company KnowBe4, which apparently they didn't, quickly disabled access to their systems when it noticed strange behavior.
[37:27.070 --> 37:35.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: We posted the job, received resumes, conducted interviews, performed background checks, verified references, and hired the person, the firm wrote in a blog post.
[37:35.300 --> 37:42.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: We sent them their Mac workstation, and the moment it was received, it immediately started to load malware.
[37:44.460 --> 37:48.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, first of all, I assume you didn't send it to North Korea, all right?
[37:48.180 --> 37:50.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: I assume that would have been something you noticed.
[37:50.460 --> 38:03.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: So if the moment it was received, it was received at whatever address you were given, which I guess would have forwarded it to somebody in North Korea, but if it started doing this the moment it was received there, then this is bigger than just one particular country.
[38:08.220 --> 38:14.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: You mean there's a widespread existence of these types of hires?
[38:14.300 --> 38:16.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it doesn't have to just be North Koreans, you know?
[38:16.940 --> 38:19.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: It could just be people out for, you know, to...
[38:19.760 --> 38:20.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, okay, yeah, right, right.
[38:20.780 --> 38:30.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're saying it's more commonplace than just, say, for instance, this particular country, who, of course, is funding things, you know, like the mass games.
[38:30.400 --> 38:31.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: They don't pay for themselves.
[38:31.760 --> 38:32.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, they don't.
[38:32.540 --> 38:35.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: They aren't just, you know, paying for nuclear programs.
[38:35.340 --> 38:42.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: But it is a good point that there are other entities out there that are as interested in tactics as like these.
[38:42.620 --> 38:43.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: Alex, go ahead.
[38:43.320 --> 38:45.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I think that's absolutely right.
[38:45.920 --> 38:59.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the North Koreans, I think, really took this particular type of attack as a page from the Chinese's playbook because the Chinese have been pulling this joint venture thing for, I would say, at least a decade now.
[38:59.680 --> 39:00.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, in fact, the U.S.
[39:00.540 --> 39:10.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: trade representative had specifically called out these fake Chinese joint ventures as a national security threat by which the Chinese would ingratiate themselves with U.S.
[39:10.360 --> 39:16.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: companies developing innovative technologies, get access to that technology, and then steal it and pull out of the JV.
[39:16.740 --> 39:21.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, it's a bigger problem than just North Korea.
[39:21.220 --> 39:26.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of big problems, this headline, huge Game Freak hack leaks next Pokemon game.
[39:27.120 --> 39:29.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's got everybody up in turmoil here.
[39:29.840 --> 39:33.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: Apparently, it's a massive hack that's hit Pokemon's parent company, Game Freak.
[39:34.240 --> 39:37.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: The data allegedly contains information about the next Pokemon game.
[39:38.540 --> 39:41.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I don't really understand what the big deal is.
[39:41.200 --> 39:44.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, people know more about the next Pokemon game.
[39:44.320 --> 39:46.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: They're still going to release the game.
[39:46.360 --> 39:47.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: They're still going to sell the game.
[39:47.840 --> 39:50.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: And whatever these people do with Pokemon is still going to be doing it.
[39:51.220 --> 39:52.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, some of the secrets are out.
[39:53.340 --> 39:56.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: I would read this, except I don't understand half the things that they're talking about.
[39:57.320 --> 40:01.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I also don't know how important this really is.
[40:01.640 --> 40:06.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: You do see... I mean, I've observed pokey people poking around.
[40:06.960 --> 40:11.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: The very fact that you would say pokey people like that tells me that you don't think this is serious either.
[40:11.500 --> 40:12.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm with you on that.
[40:12.880 --> 40:14.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is this not a serious face?
[40:14.860 --> 40:17.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: I know the audience is at a handicap here.
[40:17.620 --> 40:18.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: They can't see this.
[40:18.400 --> 40:19.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a face that's seen too much.
[40:21.540 --> 40:26.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, we all see people walking around like they're in a trance doing Pokemon things in the street.
[40:26.660 --> 40:29.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: It seems to emerge like in waves.
[40:30.200 --> 40:37.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, they're sort of everywhere and then they go back and then they reemerge.
[40:37.080 --> 40:38.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did it once.
[40:38.840 --> 40:40.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: I saw, oh, look, there's a Pokemon on my phone.
[40:40.720 --> 40:43.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: I clicked something that made a noise and I was bored.
[40:43.960 --> 40:50.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, according to Pokemon leak account, CentroLeaks on Twitter, and I don't even understand what that is.
[40:50.880 --> 40:56.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Is that somebody who's leaking things from Pokemon or is that Pokemon themselves telling you about the various leaks they've been afflicted with?
[40:57.860 --> 40:58.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever.
[40:58.520 --> 41:02.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: The leaks contain code names which refer to upcoming Pokemon projects.
[41:02.060 --> 41:09.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: The leaked data alleges that the next Generation 10 Pokemon game is titled Pokemon Gaia, G-A-I-A.
[41:10.060 --> 41:12.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: Gaia is an ancient goddess representing the Earth.
[41:12.920 --> 41:15.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: She has one of the oldest theities in Greek mythology.
[41:15.480 --> 41:19.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: So the new Pokemon game may have a Greek theme or take place in a Greece-inspired region.
[41:19.700 --> 41:20.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't matter.
[41:20.300 --> 41:22.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's ruined now because the surprise is gone.
[41:25.260 --> 41:27.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's all I'm going to read about this because it's...
[41:28.860 --> 41:30.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it really matters that much.
[41:30.840 --> 41:33.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's not as serious as the Flappy Bird scandal.
[41:33.480 --> 41:34.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Pokemon's going to be fine.
[41:35.320 --> 41:37.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: All the Pokemon people are going to be fine.
[41:38.180 --> 41:39.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: So let's just try and move on.
[41:41.040 --> 41:42.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is a bit more serious.
[41:44.140 --> 41:47.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: 42 minutes in, we've gone through the comedic part of the headlines.
[41:47.520 --> 41:53.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Parents sue school that gave bad grade to students who used A.I.
[41:53.160 --> 41:54.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: to complete assignment.
[41:55.740 --> 41:56.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: And A.I.
[41:56.660 --> 41:57.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: did not write that headline.
[41:58.420 --> 42:03.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: An old and powerful force has entered the debate over generative A.I.
[42:03.840 --> 42:04.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: in schools.
[42:04.880 --> 42:10.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: Litigious parents angry that their child may not be accepted into a prestigious university.
[42:10.520 --> 42:11.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: This comes from Gizmodo.
[42:12.220 --> 42:22.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: In what appears to be the first case of its kind, at least in Massachusetts, a couple has sued their local school district after it disciplined their son for using generative A.I.
[42:22.520 --> 42:23.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: tools on a history project.
[42:24.380 --> 42:32.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: Dale and Jennifer Harris allege that the Hingham High School student handbook did not explicitly prohibit the use of A.I.
[42:32.380 --> 42:37.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: to complete assignments and that the punishment visited upon their son for using an A.I.
[42:37.480 --> 42:37.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: tool.
[42:37.720 --> 42:45.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: He received Saturday detention and a grade of 65 out of 100 on the assignment.
[42:46.360 --> 42:51.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: They contend that that has harmed his chances of getting into Stanford University and other elite schools.
[42:51.960 --> 42:52.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: Really?
[42:52.340 --> 42:53.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: One project and you're out?
[42:53.820 --> 42:54.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Just like that?
[42:54.540 --> 42:55.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: Can't have a bad day?
[42:55.940 --> 42:56.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's hard to believe.
[42:57.140 --> 42:59.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: The defendants continued...
[42:59.020 --> 42:59.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: They're talking about the school here.
[42:59.940 --> 43:10.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: The defendants continued on a pervasive, destructive, and merciless path of threats, intimidation, and coercion to impact and derail our son's future and his exemplary record.
[43:11.180 --> 43:13.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: There's something about these people that are annoying me already.
[43:13.720 --> 43:15.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't put a finger on it.
[43:15.800 --> 43:23.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: The Harris family alleged this in his lawsuit, which was initially filed in state superior court after being removed to a federal district court.
[43:24.620 --> 43:37.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hingham Public Schools, however, claims that its student handbook prohibited the use of unauthorized technology and unauthorized use or a close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own work.
[43:37.760 --> 43:40.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, my high school didn't have a handbook.
[43:40.660 --> 43:45.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: But we did know that copying other people's words wasn't right.
[43:45.480 --> 43:47.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you have conversations about that.
[43:47.840 --> 43:49.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: You have instincts about that.
[43:49.420 --> 43:54.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know if you need it specifically spelled out in a handbook to know that it's wrong.
[43:55.740 --> 43:59.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: That said, Saturday detention, you know what?
[43:59.520 --> 44:00.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, do Saturday...
[44:00.960 --> 44:02.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: What else are you going to do on Saturday?
[44:02.340 --> 44:04.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: How does that affect anything in your future?
[44:04.300 --> 44:06.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: Just spend Saturday in a classroom.
[44:06.540 --> 44:07.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: See what happens.
[44:07.260 --> 44:23.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: The district said in a recent motion to dismiss that the discipline administered to the Harris's son was relatively lenient and that a ruling to the contrary would invite dissatisfied parents and students to challenge day-to-day discipline, even grading of students in state and federal courts.
[44:23.920 --> 44:30.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, that's something I certainly see coming out of a positive outcome for the parents here.
[44:31.480 --> 44:31.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[44:32.960 --> 44:35.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a lawsuit over a grade.
[44:35.200 --> 44:38.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: I always knew it was possible.
[44:38.340 --> 44:40.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: I just didn't think I would see it in my lifetime.
[44:40.940 --> 44:42.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Alex, you're a parent.
[44:42.100 --> 44:43.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: You must have some thoughts on this.
[44:43.860 --> 44:44.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, of course.
[44:44.820 --> 44:52.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I was a student who was, you know, very often subject to disciplinary proceedings, not surprisingly.
[44:53.180 --> 45:00.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I would have never in a million years thought that anybody in the district in which I grew up would sue over a 65.
[45:01.020 --> 45:05.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think very reasonably, the teacher could have given him a zero, which would have really screwed up his average.
[45:05.600 --> 45:07.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: 65 is not that bad.
[45:07.560 --> 45:11.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, 65, I think, as you mentioned, Emmanuel, you can recover from that.
[45:11.600 --> 45:12.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, on the other hand...
[45:13.400 --> 45:15.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: For some of us, there was an accomplishment, too, by the way.
[45:15.960 --> 45:16.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: Just point that out.
[45:17.100 --> 45:17.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's true.
[45:17.860 --> 45:19.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: 65 was not bad.
[45:19.480 --> 45:19.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[45:20.500 --> 45:23.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, especially in math-related classes and things like that.
[45:23.800 --> 45:26.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: You hit that over 50 threshold, and, you know, anything's possible.
[45:27.240 --> 45:31.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, look, you know, you've always been a lot brighter than you look, so it doesn't surprise me.
[45:31.700 --> 45:32.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you very much.
[45:33.040 --> 45:42.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, look, playing devil's advocate with this kid, you know, maybe he used it to check an equation or something, or some kind of raw material that wasn't part of his full analysis.
[45:43.120 --> 45:54.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I think if he just, you know, did a cut-and-paste job from some kind of generative AI platform to do his homework, that totally avoids the issue of having to do the thinking for yourself.
[45:55.640 --> 46:10.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's frightening to me, too, that people are going to be suing over this, because this is what I think is just going to dumb down society in its entirety, is our inability to do these simple mathematical equations and understand these principles and formulas or keep them in our head anymore,
[46:10.240 --> 46:14.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: because they're going to be doing exactly what this lazy kid with overly litigious parents did.
[46:15.740 --> 46:17.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree.
[46:17.920 --> 46:24.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to see this in every facet of life, I think, a generative AI text.
[46:24.900 --> 46:33.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: The thing is, we have trouble telling sometimes if something is generated by a human or by AI.
[46:33.260 --> 46:34.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: AI does not.
[46:34.420 --> 46:37.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: AI can tell you if something was generated by AI.
[46:37.820 --> 46:43.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's really, really interesting, that it can kind of self-police, unless, of course, it's programmed not to.
[46:44.800 --> 46:51.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, the other thing that's weird to me about this lawsuit, just as an aside, is that somehow they got into federal court, right?
[46:51.640 --> 46:55.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: You either have to be citizens of a different state or have some kind of federal question there.
[46:56.120 --> 47:10.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I think these parents, in some Gumby-like way of abusing the law, have alleged a constitutional violation here or some kind of civil rights-based discrimination for misgrading their child.
[47:11.040 --> 47:12.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's got to be.
[47:12.480 --> 47:18.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting you say that because there is a national survey conducted by the Center for Democracy and Technology.
[47:18.880 --> 47:22.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: They found that schools are increasingly disciplining students for using AI.
[47:23.120 --> 47:32.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: And they noted that historically marginalized students, including students of color, English language learners, they tend to be punished disproportionately for violating school rules.
[47:32.260 --> 47:42.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: If that's the case here, okay, you know, my perspective on this changes a bit because if some people are being treated differently than others, that certainly is not fair.
[47:43.220 --> 47:50.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, the Harris family alleges their son was unfairly targeted by the Hingham School District because it applied discipline inconsistently.
[47:50.780 --> 48:00.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: After the cheating incident, the district didn't place their son in the National Honor Society, they claim, but it had previously allowed a student who used AI to write an English paper to join the society.
[48:01.320 --> 48:03.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's that as well.
[48:04.100 --> 48:05.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see where that case goes.
[48:06.720 --> 48:07.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead.
[48:07.800 --> 48:17.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, look, relative to what happened to me, I mean, I got kicked out of my public library for dropping down to a DOS prompt in, what was that, 1995 or 1996 or something.
[48:17.660 --> 48:20.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, I mean, I didn't sue over that.
[48:21.520 --> 48:23.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's big on you.
[48:23.460 --> 48:24.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: But you weren't a lawyer then either.
[48:24.900 --> 48:25.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: You were a kid.
[48:26.060 --> 48:26.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
[48:26.840 --> 48:26.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[48:27.060 --> 48:27.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not too late.
[48:27.680 --> 48:29.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: You could probably go back and sue them.
[48:29.340 --> 48:29.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure.
[48:30.060 --> 48:33.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure there's some tolling of the statute of limitations I could come up with.
[48:36.720 --> 48:45.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, last week at this time, our friends over at the Internet Archive were having a bit of a problem being hacked mercilessly.
[48:46.800 --> 48:59.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, somebody got into their system and put a pop-up message saying that there was a catastrophic security breach, which I'm not sure if it came from the hacker or from the people running the system.
[49:02.100 --> 49:04.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: But, yeah, that has gotten a lot of attention.
[49:05.100 --> 49:09.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Apparently, everyone who has a password there has had that password compromised.
[49:10.260 --> 49:22.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: Our friend Jason Scott, an archivist and software curator of the Internet Project, said the site was experiencing a DDoS attack posting on Mastodone that according to their Twitter, they're doing it just to do it just because they can.
[49:22.840 --> 49:24.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: No statement, no idea, no demands.
[49:25.500 --> 49:34.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: An account on Twitter called SNBlackMeta said it was behind the attack and implied that another attack was planned for Thursday, which, in fact, actually happened.
[49:34.300 --> 49:36.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: There was an attack on Thursday.
[49:37.600 --> 49:43.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the Internet Society, they're the last people that should have to deal with this kind of crap.
[49:43.500 --> 49:44.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: Internet Archive.
[49:44.460 --> 49:45.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: What'd I say?
[49:45.300 --> 49:45.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Internet Society.
[49:46.080 --> 49:46.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, sorry.
[49:46.760 --> 49:47.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: Different people.
[49:47.460 --> 49:49.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Also shouldn't mess with them either.
[49:49.280 --> 49:50.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're great as well.
[49:50.780 --> 49:53.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: They could mess back just as the Internet Archive.
[49:53.400 --> 49:55.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's not plan any rumbles.
[49:55.720 --> 49:57.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, but people should take responsibility.
[49:57.540 --> 50:01.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, like, just because you can do something, you're not going to establish...
[50:01.420 --> 50:08.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you're not going to get the kind of respect you think you're going to get out of that.
[50:08.400 --> 50:10.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, you'll get quite the opposite in most circles.
[50:10.920 --> 50:22.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, in my view, seeing something like this happen where Internet Archive is taken down and targeted for no particular reason, it's all the more reason to support them.
[50:22.060 --> 50:27.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: And they certainly do need support to keep doing the admirable things they do.
[50:27.620 --> 50:33.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: We all use their services to look at something that happened in history however many years ago on the Internet.
[50:33.180 --> 50:41.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: So hopefully it turns into something good where people can keep their remarkable projects going in the future.
[50:41.760 --> 50:43.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: I sure hope so.
[50:43.520 --> 50:46.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the case with so many entities out there.
[50:46.280 --> 50:56.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, WBAI being a big one as we broadcast at 99.5 FM to New York City and over the Internet at WBAI.org.
[50:57.060 --> 51:12.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: And we hope that you out there, listeners who are listening to this show either live or in the future sometime, will open up your pocketbooks or your wallets or whatever and help support this amazing non-commercial radio station.
[51:12.360 --> 51:16.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Because those funds are the only funds that we can rely upon.
[51:17.280 --> 51:25.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Those are the only funds we get because we don't have commercials and we basically depend on our listeners.
[51:26.160 --> 51:28.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: And if our listeners aren't there, we know we're doing something wrong.
[51:29.080 --> 51:38.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: So the support that you have given us over the decades, half a century in fact, have really proven that there is a need for a radio station like this.
[51:38.120 --> 51:39.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: We've seen so many stations disappear.
[51:39.980 --> 51:42.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: You've seen so many stations turn into something else.
[51:42.600 --> 51:45.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: And there are people out there who want to do that to WBAI.
[51:45.400 --> 51:47.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: But our listeners keep us strong.
[51:48.040 --> 51:54.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: And the many programmers here on WBAI also are passionately involved in doing that.
[51:54.480 --> 52:07.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: So go to the website, give2wbai.org, give the number to WBAI.org and pledge whatever you can to keep WBAI on the air for another 60 years.
[52:08.200 --> 52:09.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: Wouldn't that be great?
[52:10.160 --> 52:12.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we are kind of out of time.
[52:13.160 --> 52:17.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: Please write to us here at Off The Hook, oth@2600.com.
[52:17.900 --> 52:20.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: I want to close with a thought that was posted on the Internet.
[52:21.040 --> 52:25.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not exactly sure where it came from, but these are great words to live by.
[52:25.840 --> 52:41.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: And so many people tell you to go and do your own research, you know, as if you can research something as well as the best historians that you will come to only one logical conclusion.
[52:41.220 --> 52:43.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: But in actuality, they want you to come to their conclusion.
[52:43.920 --> 52:46.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you have trouble reaching them, they'll help you.
[52:46.320 --> 52:47.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: They'll help you get there.
[52:48.060 --> 52:51.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: But they want you to reject facts, reject truth.
[52:51.820 --> 52:53.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that seems to be a thing these days.
[52:53.200 --> 52:55.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just make things up if the truth isn't working for you.
[52:57.080 --> 53:01.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: And in a cult-like culture, that can actually work.
[53:02.060 --> 53:04.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: This quote is what I'd like to leave people with.
[53:04.820 --> 53:06.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: Please stop saying you researched it.
[53:06.920 --> 53:08.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: You didn't research anything.
[53:08.480 --> 53:11.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it is highly probable you don't know how to do so.
[53:11.240 --> 53:14.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: Did you compile a literature review and write abstracts on each article?
[53:15.080 --> 53:21.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Or better yet, did you collect a random sample of sources and perform independent probability statistics on the reported results?
[53:22.320 --> 53:22.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: No?
[53:23.060 --> 53:26.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Did you at least take each article one by one and look into the source?
[53:26.320 --> 53:29.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: That would be the author, publisher, and funder?
[53:29.360 --> 53:34.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: Then critique the writing for logical fallacies, cognitive distortions, and plain inaccuracies?
[53:35.060 --> 53:39.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Did you ask yourself why this source might publish these particular results?
[53:39.240 --> 53:43.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: Did you follow the trail of references and apply the same source of scrutiny to them?
[53:44.160 --> 53:44.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: No?
[53:45.320 --> 53:47.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: Then you didn't research anything.
[53:47.600 --> 53:51.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: You read or watched a video, most likely with little or no objectivity.
[53:51.740 --> 53:54.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: You came across something in your algorithm-manipulated feed.
[53:55.100 --> 54:05.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: Something that jived with your implicit biases and served your confirmation bias and subconsciously applied your emotional filters and called it proof.
[54:07.240 --> 54:08.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: We will see you next week.
[54:08.920 --> 54:10.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: No overtime tonight.
[54:10.800 --> 54:11.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good night, everyone.
[54:17.330 --> 54:46.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: I want to win Freedom talks of freedom I'm just a whim I'm so trapped in boredom I touched the shore How can I get there To go away Just to be nowhere Last night I dreamed I died in my sleep, only to awake.
[54:47.770 --> 54:49.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Plain in a coffin.
[54:50.250 --> 54:52.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: You were my all.
[54:52.870 --> 54:54.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: A poster at the mall.
[54:55.510 --> 54:57.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: You took a fall.
[54:58.090 --> 55:00.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: I couldn't call you anymore.
[55:01.450 --> 55:04.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: The show must go on.
[55:04.890 --> 55:06.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: The end is never really over.
[55:07.850 --> 55:09.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe it's worse to be with you.
[55:09.790 --> 55:12.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Don't you ever surrender.
[55:12.650 --> 55:14.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Love won't let you down.
[55:15.590 --> 55:17.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Cause it's around.
[55:18.090 --> 55:19.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Trophies for a touchdown.
[55:20.910 --> 55:23.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Always remember good times.
[55:24.890 --> 55:26.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hollywood movie.
[55:27.310 --> 55:28.190]  Could eat me.
[55:28.370 --> 55:29.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Such a cause of thought.
[55:29.890 --> 55:31.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: So don't you give up.
[55:32.830 --> 55:34.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: Real life is this.
[55:34.950 --> 55:37.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Gone with the wind.
[55:37.070 --> 55:40.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Satan is just an actor.
[55:40.570 --> 55:42.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Who's tried to taunt us all.
[55:42.970 --> 55:45.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Into believing in nothing.