Off The Hook - 2025-01-01

[00:16.610 --> 00:21.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: Busy verification by the operator is not allowed on this call.
[00:26.910 --> 00:28.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: The telephone keeps ringing.
[00:29.270 --> 00:31.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I ripped it off the wall.
[00:32.410 --> 00:34.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: I cut myself while shaving.
[00:34.930 --> 00:36.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now I can't make a call.
[00:37.570 --> 00:39.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: We couldn't get much worse.
[00:42.490 --> 00:45.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: One day we bombed, but the best is back from worst.
[00:45.790 --> 00:47.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: I hope that's understood.
[00:47.850 --> 00:48.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: One day we bombed.
[01:50.040 --> 01:51.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: And a very good evening for a ride.
[01:51.740 --> 01:52.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: The program is Off The Hook.
[01:52.980 --> 01:56.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: And Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[01:56.380 --> 01:57.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: Joined tonight by Kyle.
[01:57.680 --> 01:58.040]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Hi.
[01:58.520 --> 02:00.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: And out in Skype-land we have Rob T. Firefly.
[02:01.980 --> 02:02.880]  [ROBVINCENT]: Good evening.
[02:03.140 --> 02:03.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: We have Gila.
[02:04.320 --> 02:04.920]  [GILADRAZEN]: Good evening.
[02:05.160 --> 02:05.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we have Alex.
[02:07.860 --> 02:08.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: We had Alex.
[02:09.020 --> 02:09.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: I saw him.
[02:09.740 --> 02:10.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: Just disappeared.
[02:11.640 --> 02:14.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: Can we ever have a show where Alex has a good connection?
[02:14.490 --> 02:15.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't understand it.
[02:15.280 --> 02:15.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: Is he cursed?
[02:16.140 --> 02:17.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: What is the issue?
[02:18.020 --> 02:19.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: Alex, are you with us?
[02:21.320 --> 02:21.760]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yes.
[02:22.020 --> 02:25.160]  [ALEXURBELS]: I just lost my Internet connection momentarily there.
[02:25.380 --> 02:36.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: No matter where you are, if you're in New York City, if you're in the Dry Tortugas, if you're in Pennsylvania, if you're in the studio, somehow you lose your connection every time.
[02:36.180 --> 02:36.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't get it.
[02:36.860 --> 02:37.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's actually cursed.
[02:37.740 --> 02:38.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're cursed.
[02:38.440 --> 02:39.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know what it is.
[02:39.280 --> 02:39.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: But welcome.
[02:39.780 --> 02:41.080]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think it's infrastructure.
[02:41.550 --> 02:42.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're all here now.
[02:42.820 --> 02:46.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: And this is the special New Year's edition of Off The Hook.
[02:46.920 --> 02:50.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: And for once, it's taking place on New Year's Day, which is incredible.
[02:50.660 --> 03:04.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: And what we'll be doing tonight, among other things, is basically going over both our predictions and our acknowledgments of the previous year, predictions for next year.
[03:05.020 --> 03:12.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: So we have a special sound effect, I guess, so people can tell the difference.
[03:12.820 --> 03:22.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: So when we each have a look back at 2024 in high technology, we will hear...
[03:26.150 --> 03:26.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[03:27.010 --> 03:31.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: And when we're looking ahead at predictions for 2025, we will hear...
[03:35.560 --> 03:36.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[03:36.400 --> 03:36.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[03:37.060 --> 03:37.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's something.
[03:38.100 --> 03:39.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's the future for sure.
[03:39.500 --> 03:44.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: But right now, let's look at what's going on in various headlines.
[03:44.160 --> 03:49.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: This is something that kind of disturbed me a little bit, and hopefully it doesn't tie into anybody's predictions as well.
[03:49.360 --> 03:54.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: And if you forgot to do your predictions or your look back, you can use the time I'm reading this to scramble.
[03:55.820 --> 04:02.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: So basically, the headline reads, Facebook planning to flood platform with AI-powered users.
[04:03.340 --> 04:03.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[04:05.140 --> 04:08.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know how this is even possible in light of everything we've been through.
[04:09.420 --> 04:21.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: But Meta, the parent company of Facebook, says they will be aiming to have Facebook filled with AI-generated characters to drive up engagement on its platform as part of its broader rollout of AI products.
[04:21.260 --> 04:24.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's according to the Financial Times, which I believe you always read, Alex.
[04:24.680 --> 04:34.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: The AI characters will be created by users through Meta's AI studio, with the idea being that you can interact with them almost like you would with a real human on the website.
[04:34.800 --> 04:42.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: We expect these AIs to actually, over time, exist on our platforms, kind of in the same way that accounts do.
[04:42.380 --> 04:46.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's according to Meta Vice President of Product for Generative AI...
[04:47.040 --> 04:48.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: This is his title?
[04:48.760 --> 04:52.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: Meta Vice President of Product for Generative AI, Connor Hayes.
[04:53.820 --> 04:54.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[04:54.640 --> 05:01.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: They'll have bios and profile pictures and be able to generate and share content powered by AI on its platform.
[05:02.480 --> 05:04.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's where we see all of this going.
[05:06.400 --> 05:11.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: Folks, it's 1905 Eastern Standard Time.
[05:11.300 --> 05:13.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: I declare our future dead.
[05:13.600 --> 05:18.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because this is exactly what we have been warning everybody about.
[05:19.020 --> 05:22.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: And this is what Meta wants to do.
[05:22.220 --> 05:24.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: They want to flood their platform with AI.
[05:24.660 --> 05:25.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: So we can't tell the difference.
[05:26.040 --> 05:29.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: So that we'll be interacting with artificial intelligence.
[05:29.600 --> 05:30.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: They'll have bios.
[05:31.200 --> 05:32.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: They'll have all kinds.
[05:32.500 --> 05:34.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: And they're embracing this.
[05:35.320 --> 05:36.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: How is that even possible?
[05:37.140 --> 05:38.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: Any theories?
[05:38.320 --> 05:41.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: I was looking for an April Fool's type of a thing here.
[05:42.060 --> 05:42.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: But there isn't one.
[05:42.960 --> 05:43.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm looking.
[05:43.540 --> 05:44.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm still looking.
[05:44.400 --> 05:45.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: This is real.
[05:45.360 --> 05:45.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: Alex?
[05:46.700 --> 05:51.100]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, I think that this is not surprising to me at all.
[05:51.960 --> 05:53.060]  [ALEXURBELS]: For a number of reasons.
[05:53.060 --> 05:57.120]  [ALEXURBELS]: Now, I think the first reason is that Facebook sucks.
[05:57.720 --> 06:02.940]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's a crappy platform that not a lot of people are using right now.
[06:03.020 --> 06:17.400]  [ALEXURBELS]: And if you go on it, you see that there's more and more content that comes from, quote, unquote, influencers or accounts that they think that you might like or some kind of random story that they think.
[06:17.400 --> 06:32.340]  [ALEXURBELS]: And what they're trying to do is fill your feed with content so that you stay on the platform because people are not using the platform to provide updates about their lives or share photos of their pets much the way that they used to do over the last 12,
[06:32.560 --> 06:34.060]  [ALEXURBELS]: 10, 15 years or so.
[06:34.060 --> 06:41.260]  [ALEXURBELS]: And so, as the use of the platform begins to decline, they need to figure out ways to drive this type of engagement.
[06:41.460 --> 06:44.980]  [ALEXURBELS]: And this, to me, is an act of desperation on their part.
[06:45.180 --> 06:57.720]  [ALEXURBELS]: They're trying to create some kind of nonsensical, fictional accounts that are entirely on the basis of AI that they think users are going to have fun interacting with for some bizarre reason.
[06:57.720 --> 07:05.740]  [ALEXURBELS]: And as some saving grace for the platform itself, it just seems to smell of actual desperation to me.
[07:06.000 --> 07:12.260]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, in a sense, maybe that's a good thing because I think this is just indicative of the deterioration of Facebook.
[07:12.480 --> 07:23.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, well, I mean, it's going to kill Facebook, obviously, because if people aren't engaging, why would they be wanting to engage with something that's not even real, that's just artificial intelligence?
[07:23.280 --> 07:33.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, I also wonder, what happens if the humans actually do leave, you know, in droves, and there's nothing but artificial intelligence left?
[07:34.000 --> 07:37.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: Is META going to keep Facebook going for AI and AI alone?
[07:37.680 --> 07:41.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: Are they going to be able to tell the difference between what's AI and what's human?
[07:42.440 --> 07:44.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: This is some kind of science fiction story.
[07:45.500 --> 07:49.500]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think, at that point, it would just turn into Twitter, right?
[07:49.560 --> 07:51.440]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, I think we already see most of that.
[07:51.440 --> 07:58.560]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, I think the bot activity on Twitter is just totally off the charts, I think, for the last couple of years.
[07:59.060 --> 08:00.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I don't know.
[08:00.720 --> 08:04.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: I've got to say, I'm kind of perplexed by all this.
[08:04.080 --> 08:11.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: It just seems like a really dumb thing to announce or to, you know, to say is what you're hoping for.
[08:11.920 --> 08:13.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: Anyone else have any thoughts or feelings on this?
[08:14.120 --> 08:14.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: Gila, go ahead.
[08:14.560 --> 08:22.160]  [GILADRAZEN]: Well, so I, as much as I hate to admit this on this platform, am a not inactive Facebook user.
[08:22.300 --> 08:27.260]  [GILADRAZEN]: I do actually still use it somewhat for its intended purpose, which is keeping up with people.
[08:27.440 --> 08:35.340]  [GILADRAZEN]: And every so often, you know, I get a list of people who are suggested accounts for me to become friends with.
[08:35.340 --> 08:39.940]  [GILADRAZEN]: And I look through the whole list and I'm like, oh, I know this person from high school.
[08:40.100 --> 08:42.320]  [GILADRAZEN]: Oh, this person is a friend of my mom's.
[08:42.780 --> 08:44.020]  [GILADRAZEN]: I met this person at a wedding.
[08:44.320 --> 08:49.820]  [GILADRAZEN]: And then there are people who are like just randomly there and we have no mutual friends and they don't have any information.
[08:49.960 --> 08:52.680]  [GILADRAZEN]: I'm just like, oh, this is a fake person.
[08:53.220 --> 09:00.800]  [GILADRAZEN]: And, I mean, I don't automatically friend people that it suggests me to friend anyway, but I'm like, I'm just going to delete this person from my suggestions.
[09:01.400 --> 09:03.220]  [GILADRAZEN]: Like, this is happening.
[09:03.980 --> 09:05.500]  [GILADRAZEN]: It's been happening.
[09:06.080 --> 09:08.600]  [GILADRAZEN]: It's going to continue to happen.
[09:11.280 --> 09:14.160]  [GILADRAZEN]: And the fact that they're talking about it now, I guess, is the big change.
[09:15.100 --> 09:25.800]  [GILADRAZEN]: But, from the point of view of the daily user, I mean, I hate to say it, I don't see it making that much of a difference.
[09:27.340 --> 09:30.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, it's not going to make a difference for me because I don't use Facebook.
[09:31.080 --> 09:39.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: I just, I drop in occasionally to see if, like, you know, something dramatic happens with somebody just to see what people are saying.
[09:39.740 --> 09:42.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: But usually, it's pretty boring and I leave quickly.
[09:45.180 --> 10:03.160]  [ROBVINCENT]: The interesting thing about the idea of bot accounts running around on the thing is, in the old days of social networks, when one would wind down, when one would die out and everyone would move on to the next big thing, you could go back to, like, MySpace or LiveJournal or whatever and see that,
[10:03.220 --> 10:06.620]  [ROBVINCENT]: oh, you know, everyone I used to interact with is no longer posting.
[10:06.620 --> 10:07.440]  [ROBVINCENT]: It's a ghost town.
[10:07.540 --> 10:08.420]  [ROBVINCENT]: There's nothing going on.
[10:09.220 --> 10:14.260]  [ROBVINCENT]: But, like, when Facebook dies and it's all these robots talking to each other, how will we know?
[10:15.820 --> 10:16.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: Exactly.
[10:16.420 --> 10:17.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, that's my point.
[10:17.260 --> 10:22.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: How are you going to know if it's just robots left or just AI left and all the humans have gone?
[10:23.760 --> 10:31.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: And there must be about 50 science fiction stories where the whole planet has been abandoned to AI and you can't really tell anymore.
[10:31.220 --> 10:38.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right, you know what, Meta, you're writing your own bankruptcy check or whatever, whatever the phrase is.
[10:39.060 --> 10:40.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: It doesn't look good.
[10:40.700 --> 10:41.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: It doesn't look promising.
[10:41.540 --> 10:46.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I got to say, you know, 2025 so far has not looked very, very happy to me.
[10:46.940 --> 10:49.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: All kinds of bad things happening today.
[10:50.840 --> 11:00.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: Not the least interesting of which is the Cybertruck blowing up outside of Trump Tower or Trump Hotel in Las Vegas.
[11:01.220 --> 11:04.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: The symbolism of that is just... there's a picture out there.
[11:04.300 --> 11:05.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: Have you seen this picture?
[11:05.020 --> 11:10.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's a picture of a flaming Cybertruck right outside the Trump Hotel with the word Trump on it.
[11:11.140 --> 11:14.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: And the symbolism of that is just...
[11:14.280 --> 11:16.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, 2025, that's pretty much the theme.
[11:17.100 --> 11:21.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now, you know, the jury is still out as to whether this is an act of terror or an act of stupid.
[11:22.480 --> 11:26.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because apparently the Cybertruck had a bunch of fireworks in it.
[11:26.680 --> 11:30.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it's just... it's too early to say just what's going on here.
[11:30.740 --> 11:35.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: But it's really kind of a crazy way to start the new year and not the only way either.
[11:35.540 --> 11:36.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't want to dwell on that.
[11:37.060 --> 11:41.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: I want people to be happy and look forward to what's going to be happening.
[11:41.960 --> 11:45.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: On that note, some good news with the radio station.
[11:45.480 --> 11:48.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, we've been trying to raise funds for the last few weeks.
[11:49.780 --> 11:55.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: And the goal was $125,000, which at times seemed out of reach.
[11:56.100 --> 12:07.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I'm happy to say that today, the first day that the fund drive is not taking place, even though you can still go to buddy.wbai.org and pledge, we have made... what do we add now?
[12:09.400 --> 12:10.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: $133,395.89.
[12:11.300 --> 12:12.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that's not even the grand total.
[12:12.620 --> 12:13.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's more coming in.
[12:13.300 --> 12:18.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: So thank you, everybody, for pledging your support to this radio station, keeping WBAI going.
[12:18.320 --> 12:21.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's more important than any of us can possibly imagine.
[12:21.720 --> 12:24.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we are going to be facing challenges ahead.
[12:24.640 --> 12:29.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, you know, it's not an easy battle, but it's an admirable one.
[12:29.840 --> 12:44.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I want to thank everybody at the station for all their support for us and for each other and just for the fascinating programming that hopefully will continue coming your way 24 hours a day here on WBAI.
[12:44.280 --> 12:46.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: And thank you, of course, to all the listeners for their support.
[12:47.040 --> 12:48.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: You've kept us on the air since 1960.
[12:49.220 --> 12:54.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: And some other good news as far as radio goes.
[12:54.720 --> 12:58.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: We talked about this a few weeks ago.
[12:59.120 --> 13:03.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: Stephen King's radio station in Maine was shutting down.
[13:03.860 --> 13:04.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, guess what?
[13:04.500 --> 13:05.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not shutting down after all.
[13:05.600 --> 13:14.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: Two businessmen purchased WKIT-FM from the best-selling writer after he announced that the station and two others would go silent after New Year's Eve.
[13:14.900 --> 13:22.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: The buyers are the main base duo, Greg Hawes and Jeff Solari, who formed Rock Lobster Radio Group in order to run the station.
[13:24.600 --> 13:26.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: WKIT is the... I think that's funny, Rob.
[13:26.680 --> 13:30.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, WKIT is the most legendary station in the region.
[13:30.520 --> 13:31.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: It has tremendous history.
[13:31.640 --> 13:33.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: We couldn't let it die, they said in a statement.
[13:34.140 --> 13:37.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: The King is a lifelong rocker and performed with the rock-bottom remainders.
[13:38.320 --> 13:39.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I guess it is kind of funny.
[13:39.540 --> 13:42.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: A band that featured literary icons performing for charity.
[13:42.940 --> 13:50.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: He announced earlier this month that at age 77, he thought it was time to say goodbye to the radio stations.
[13:51.380 --> 13:54.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm sorry, it's held to be closing down to be a WKIT at sister stations.
[13:55.080 --> 14:01.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: Stephen King posted earlier this month on social media, I held off the suits for as long as I could.
[14:03.020 --> 14:06.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: But last minute, last minute, there's a rescue.
[14:06.400 --> 14:08.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, you know, good things can happen.
[14:10.880 --> 14:11.360]  [ALEXURBELS]: Absolutely.
[14:11.860 --> 14:12.420]  [ALEXURBELS]: Go ahead.
[14:12.940 --> 14:18.600]  [ALEXURBELS]: Oh, I was just going to jump in and say I think it shows the importance and the power of radio.
[14:19.980 --> 14:27.140]  [ALEXURBELS]: And its place is still, I think, extraordinarily important in the world, especially as we move into 2025 right now.
[14:27.620 --> 14:29.480]  [ALEXURBELS]: The political climate is going to change.
[14:30.140 --> 14:34.060]  [ALEXURBELS]: Radio, I think, as people are seeing, is going to be extraordinarily important.
[14:34.260 --> 14:37.020]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I don't think its relevance is going to decrease.
[14:37.320 --> 14:40.340]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think it's going to increase over the next couple of years.
[14:40.500 --> 14:42.760]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I think people are waking up to that fact.
[14:42.760 --> 14:43.440]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's a good thing.
[14:44.200 --> 14:45.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: That is a good thing.
[14:45.060 --> 14:50.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: It might be brought about by unfortunate events and where we are in history.
[14:50.140 --> 14:53.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: But it is a good thing that people are recognizing the importance of radio.
[14:53.180 --> 15:06.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: And nowhere is that recognized more, I think, in New York than on WBAI because we are one of the few stations that has live people constantly on duty or on the air and never a commercial.
[15:06.800 --> 15:08.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, yeah, and a lot of creativity.
[15:10.120 --> 15:18.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, what we're going to do, we're going to go through everybody here, me, Kyle, Rob, Gila, and Alex.
[15:19.020 --> 15:28.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: And each of us is going to make reference to something that happened back in 2024 or a prediction for something that's going to happen in 2025.
[15:28.500 --> 15:30.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now, we're not going to do both at the same time.
[15:30.760 --> 15:34.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're going to do one, and then somebody else will do something else.
[15:34.520 --> 15:35.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: Someone will have to keep track of all this.
[15:36.040 --> 15:37.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'll try to keep it in my head.
[15:38.720 --> 15:40.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: If somebody would like to...
[15:41.220 --> 15:42.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, how do we do this?
[15:43.880 --> 15:49.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: If you raise your hand with one finger, that means you want to do something from the past.
[15:49.520 --> 15:53.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: If you raise your hands with two fingers, that means you want to do something from the future.
[15:53.800 --> 15:59.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: Otherwise, you have to tell me on the air, and then I have to play the right music for it, and it will sound sloppy.
[15:59.940 --> 16:04.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: So it's better for me to sound sloppy here and give those instructions out.
[16:04.520 --> 16:08.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right, so I see there is a finger being...
[16:08.120 --> 16:09.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: Not that finger, Alex.
[16:09.860 --> 16:10.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: Not that finger.
[16:10.720 --> 16:11.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know which one I meant.
[16:12.300 --> 16:13.600]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, you just said one.
[16:13.760 --> 16:14.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I know I said one.
[16:14.900 --> 16:15.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: It was my mistake.
[16:15.720 --> 16:15.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[16:16.760 --> 16:18.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I got it now.
[16:19.100 --> 16:21.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right, so now we know where we are.
[16:21.780 --> 16:22.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: And stand by.
[16:26.050 --> 16:29.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'll look back at 2024 in tech with Alex.
[16:31.330 --> 16:32.130]  [ALEXURBELS]: I love it.
[16:32.250 --> 16:32.590]  [ALEXURBELS]: Fantastic.
[16:32.990 --> 16:35.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: Don't make reference to the theme when you do your bit.
[16:36.130 --> 16:36.570]  [ALEXURBELS]: Okay.
[16:36.910 --> 17:04.570]  [ALEXURBELS]: So from 2024, one of the things that really stood out to me as being massively momentous from a hacking-slash-cybersecurity standpoint was the global IT outage in July that CrowdStrike had accidentally caused, affecting about 8.5 million machines and costing Fortune 500 companies a little over $5 billion.
[17:05.170 --> 17:09.250]  [ALEXURBELS]: And this happened all by way of a faulty software update.
[17:09.250 --> 17:22.670]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I think it was very ironic because this software update was for its endpoint detection and response product line, Falcon, which is supposed to actually keep machines safe from real-time threats.
[17:22.870 --> 17:36.490]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I think what was also really quite interesting when we look back at this is the fact that this update really looked like a sophisticated supply chain attack across, you know, massive sector.
[17:36.490 --> 17:44.010]  [ALEXURBELS]: This is the kind of thing that we were predicting probably last year as happening more often, but wouldn't necessarily happen by accident.
[17:44.210 --> 17:46.650]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's something that we didn't necessarily predict.
[17:46.930 --> 17:57.510]  [ALEXURBELS]: So what actually happened here was that the software update introduced a logic error and how it handled, I think, piped or piped executable commands.
[17:57.510 --> 18:10.010]  [ALEXURBELS]: And this logic error caused that Falcon sensor to crash and led to that dreaded BSOD or the blue screen of death across millions and millions of Windows machines globally.
[18:10.310 --> 18:14.530]  [ALEXURBELS]: So that was my 2024 incident of note.
[18:15.090 --> 18:17.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that was a noteworthy incident for sure.
[18:17.530 --> 18:17.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: Absolutely.
[18:18.350 --> 18:21.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we had quite a few in 2024.
[18:23.150 --> 18:24.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, who's next?
[18:24.510 --> 18:26.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: I have the signal there.
[18:26.650 --> 18:27.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hold on one second.
[18:27.390 --> 18:28.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: I just got to get my bearings.
[18:34.010 --> 18:36.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: And prediction 2025 with Rob.
[18:37.930 --> 18:51.750]  [ROBVINCENT]: In the year 2025, if men are still alive, if women can survive, I think what we're going to see is the final sort of flaming out and bursting of the generative AI bubble.
[18:52.370 --> 18:59.570]  [ROBVINCENT]: I think that's something that has been creeping ever forward for the last few years as it's been all the rage.
[18:59.850 --> 19:11.990]  [ROBVINCENT]: It's been forced into all sorts of consumer products and all sorts of hype and all sorts of people begging for funding and it being added to things that it just will not benefit from it.
[19:12.270 --> 19:20.090]  [ROBVINCENT]: And I think much like the blockchain craze and the NFT craze and everything else, I think we're finally going to see it spin out this year.
[19:21.570 --> 19:22.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[19:22.590 --> 19:23.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: Thank you very much for that.
[19:23.830 --> 19:29.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm going to go to a listener email here and you can write to us here at Off The Hook.
[19:29.790 --> 19:32.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: oth@2600.com.
[19:32.450 --> 19:37.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: We'd be happy to read your letter to us over the air.
[19:38.230 --> 19:41.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: This is from your friendly neighborhood hacker.
[19:41.070 --> 19:43.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: Big fan of the magazine and show.
[19:44.370 --> 19:46.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: Open AI now has an 800 number.
[19:46.850 --> 19:49.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hope you play with this over the air.
[19:49.710 --> 19:51.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's 1-800-CHAT-GPT.
[19:52.490 --> 19:53.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: Happy New Year.
[19:53.710 --> 19:54.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you know what?
[19:54.850 --> 19:56.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: We do intend to do that.
[19:56.250 --> 19:58.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: We do intend to play with that over the air quite a bit.
[19:58.150 --> 20:01.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: Not today, though, because we're doing our predictions and are reminiscing today.
[20:02.030 --> 20:10.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: But this is definitely fun for the future and something that I think we can pledge to make a part of our daily routine to drive AI crazy.
[20:12.330 --> 20:13.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, Alex.
[20:13.130 --> 20:13.310]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead.
[20:14.210 --> 20:14.370]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[20:14.670 --> 20:23.730]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think that perhaps on overtime after the show, I would imagine some of our callers, Rebel in particular, asking us to...
[20:23.730 --> 20:28.990]  [ALEXURBELS]: or maybe calling this for us, involuntarily forcing us to play with AI systems.
[20:29.230 --> 20:29.950]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, yeah.
[20:30.090 --> 20:30.950]  [ALEXURBELS]: This one will be interesting.
[20:31.430 --> 20:32.550]  [ALEXURBELS]: Appreciate that email.
[20:33.850 --> 20:34.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[20:34.590 --> 20:35.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: Anybody want to go next?
[20:36.410 --> 20:37.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: This is harder than I thought.
[20:38.850 --> 20:39.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: You got to hold up...
[20:39.350 --> 20:40.350]  [GILADRAZEN]: Alex took mine.
[20:41.230 --> 20:44.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: No, you can't claim somebody took your prediction.
[20:44.550 --> 20:47.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: Phrase it in a different way if you have to.
[20:47.210 --> 20:47.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hold on a second.
[20:48.350 --> 20:50.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: I believe we have another one coming up.
[20:51.170 --> 20:52.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: I have to hit all the right knobs here.
[20:52.990 --> 20:53.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: Boy, this is difficult.
[20:56.730 --> 20:58.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: Prediction 2025 with Kyle.
[20:59.350 --> 20:59.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hi.
[21:00.490 --> 21:01.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hi, Kyle.
[21:01.950 --> 21:03.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not interactive.
[21:03.450 --> 21:04.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's supposed to be standalone.
[21:05.410 --> 21:06.370]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I forgot which number it was.
[21:06.610 --> 21:06.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[21:06.890 --> 21:07.610]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Radio is hard.
[21:08.570 --> 21:24.030]  [KYLEDROSDK]: For prediction for 2025, I'm actually really excited about people demanding better networks and stuff because they want to do more with a lot of the tools and technology.
[21:24.710 --> 21:36.470]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I think it's also compounding people's ability to do things because they're working with things that help them achieve things and learn things and work more efficiently.
[21:36.710 --> 21:49.010]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I think all those things are also being shared on networks that you can not just talk on and post some sort of brand, but you're actually like just living your life, doing things.
[21:49.010 --> 21:54.490]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I think there's a lot of storytelling that people are doing themselves across the board.
[21:54.490 --> 22:01.330]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And it's not something that is managed by the entertainment industry in the same way.
[22:01.330 --> 22:11.010]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It's really just people communicating and getting better at doing what they already do with all of the ways that stuff can help them.
[22:11.010 --> 22:17.510]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm thinking of the problems that were mentioned actually inspiring people to say like, hey, we're using this.
[22:17.590 --> 22:18.410]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We want it to be better.
[22:18.530 --> 22:23.750]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We want the network to stretch further and allow richer media.
[22:24.450 --> 22:31.490]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I think things like telehealth and medicine, I think a lot of telecommunications save lives this year.
[22:31.830 --> 22:44.890]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So I want to see people innovating and doing more, including using some of these large language model or whatever kind of machine learning tools people are playing with.
[22:44.890 --> 23:05.290]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I think that play is what we do best and a good dose of humor with that is always really fun because it gets other people in the spirit of building stuff and working better and cooperating, coexisting with these tools to better understand and live.
[23:06.510 --> 23:07.310]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Does that work?
[23:07.450 --> 23:07.750]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, that works.
[23:07.750 --> 23:08.570]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Are we good with that?
[23:08.670 --> 23:09.710]  [KYLEDROSDK]: No, I think we're pretty good with that.
[23:09.830 --> 23:09.950]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Okay.
[23:10.550 --> 23:11.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: And thank you for that, Kyle.
[23:12.050 --> 23:13.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: And by the way, I just want to point out to the people.
[23:15.090 --> 23:16.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're aware of the hum.
[23:17.330 --> 23:18.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: You don't know the hum?
[23:18.850 --> 23:19.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's the hum.
[23:19.490 --> 23:19.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: Do you hear the hum?
[23:20.130 --> 23:21.370]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I don't know where it's coming from.
[23:21.450 --> 23:22.190]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It's annoying me.
[23:22.190 --> 23:23.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's coming from Skype-land is where it's coming from.
[23:24.010 --> 23:24.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's coming from Skype-land.
[23:25.070 --> 23:30.610]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Well, it could be that interface that that machine's on or it could be somebody's system that's connected to it.
[23:30.610 --> 23:34.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: If everybody turned down their volume on input, it would go away, right?
[23:34.450 --> 23:35.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: If it was coming from them.
[23:35.290 --> 23:35.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: Why do we do this to people?
[23:36.170 --> 23:36.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: Right?
[23:36.810 --> 23:37.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[23:37.510 --> 23:38.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: But it's still there.
[23:38.450 --> 23:40.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: So I think it's a connection on our own.
[23:40.450 --> 23:43.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: So what we're going to do is we'll turn it down and we don't need it.
[23:43.450 --> 23:47.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: But hopefully that sound doesn't bother people too much.
[23:47.090 --> 23:50.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: And if it does, well, that's just too bad because there's nothing we can do about it right now.
[23:53.070 --> 23:56.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: A look back at 2024 in tech with a manual.
[23:58.170 --> 23:59.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: See, that's how you're supposed to do it.
[23:59.490 --> 24:00.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: Thank you.
[24:00.550 --> 24:01.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, you know what?
[24:01.390 --> 24:12.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: The story that I found interesting in 2024 was Google basically being found to be a monopoly.
[24:12.870 --> 24:26.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: In August, Judge Emmett Mehta, great name, by the way, he ruled that Google illegally crushed its competition in search, which the company has continued to vow to appeal.
[24:27.890 --> 24:36.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: This is going going to change everything if Google has to spin off, say, Chrome or any of its other businesses as a result of this.
[24:36.630 --> 24:44.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I think the fact remains that Google has gotten really, really big and hard to get past if you're a competitor.
[24:45.330 --> 24:59.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: Google is proposing new limits to revenue sharing agreements with companies like Apple, which make Google's search engine the default on their devices and browsers, suggesting all kinds of different options.
[25:00.270 --> 25:05.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: They say there should be allowed to continue entering into contracts with other companies while widening the options that it offers.
[25:05.790 --> 25:11.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: One of their suggested remedies calls for the ability for partners to change their default search provider at least every 12 months.
[25:12.990 --> 25:17.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: that stands in stark contrast to the sweeping remedies suggested last month by the U.S.
[25:17.590 --> 25:25.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: Department of Justice, which recommended that Judge Metta force the firm to stop entering into revenue sharing contracts altogether.
[25:25.450 --> 25:29.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: And they demanded that Google sell Chrome, which is the world's most popular web browser.
[25:29.450 --> 25:30.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not really sure why.
[25:31.770 --> 25:38.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: Google search engine accounts for about 90% of all online searches globally, which, you know, to me is problematic.
[25:38.570 --> 25:42.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know if you realize this or if you pay attention when you hear news reports.
[25:43.450 --> 25:51.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: But constantly when people are found to be in violation of one thing or another, they look to Google searches as evidence.
[25:52.190 --> 25:53.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that really scares me.
[25:53.590 --> 26:04.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: So many people are logged into their Google accounts and because they, you know, look up something like, you know, how to blow up a building and they just happen to be involved in a building blowing up.
[26:04.150 --> 26:05.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, that's a bad example.
[26:05.450 --> 26:08.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: But there are other cases where it speaks to motive.
[26:08.810 --> 26:13.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: Innocent searches or searches for something that is a political ideology of one sort or another.
[26:14.530 --> 26:19.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: That information is basically something that you might assume is private but is not.
[26:19.530 --> 26:22.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it's constantly being handed over to law enforcement.
[26:23.950 --> 26:29.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, yeah, for that reason, I don't know why people continue to use Google to search.
[26:29.890 --> 26:36.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: If you go to DuckDuckGo or something like that, you don't have the same kind of issue.
[26:36.290 --> 26:38.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, yeah, it's going to be interesting.
[26:38.190 --> 26:40.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's going to be interesting to see where that goes.
[26:40.430 --> 26:47.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: I know this is something from the past but it also kind of relates to the future and I'm not copping out on my future prediction that will be coming soon.
[26:48.010 --> 26:50.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: Any thoughts on this?
[26:50.770 --> 27:11.470]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think this Google antitrust suit is extraordinarily fascinating and we talked about it a couple of weeks ago and there were a number of possibilities that existed in terms of how Google could be curtailed in terms of the anti-competitive nature of what Judge Mehta had found.
[27:12.350 --> 27:21.250]  [ALEXURBELS]: And selling off Chrome, I think, was one of the possibilities that we addressed but it seems very much like that's what the Department of Justice is focusing on right now.
[27:22.090 --> 27:24.070]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I don't think...
[27:24.070 --> 27:44.730]  [ALEXURBELS]: I guess this is a prediction based on your retrospective as well but I don't think that there will be a change in the proposals from the Department of Justice given the Trump administration is going to be coming in because they too also have big issues with big tech and want to rein in the power of big technology companies.
[27:44.950 --> 27:59.810]  [ALEXURBELS]: So I would see and predict that maybe you would even see more forceful proposals coming in with respect to trying to curb the anti-competitive nature of not only just Google but perhaps other big tech monopolists as well.
[27:59.990 --> 28:22.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you know, one thing I think we've learned is that Trump is susceptible to all kinds of influence and you recall his original feelings towards TikTok they've now gone completely 180 degrees and now he's the one that claims he wants to keep TikTok operating in the US whereas originally he was the one that wanted to ban TikTok then Biden wanted to ban TikTok so yeah it changes by the day it
[28:22.890 --> 28:23.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: seems.
[28:24.850 --> 28:54.670]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, no doubt and back in 2020 I'm sure listeners will remember I was part of a lawsuit where we actually filed a lawsuit against Donald Trump and against God, I can't remember his Secretary of Commerce at the moment I can't remember his name but in any event we filed a lawsuit on behalf of TikTok employees in the United States who were affected by the proposed TikTok ban because if the TikTok
[28:54.670 --> 29:11.310]  [ALEXURBELS]: ban did come into effect it would have made it illegal to pay these US employees for their work so we actually brought one of the first suits against The Trump administration on that front.
[29:11.490 --> 29:16.910]  [ALEXURBELS]: And the Department of Justice actually blinked and gave us the interpretation of the ban that we had wanted.
[29:17.630 --> 29:23.010]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, yeah, it's really funny to see this total 180-degree change here.
[29:23.450 --> 29:24.870]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's something else.
[29:25.890 --> 29:26.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: Indeed it is.
[29:27.190 --> 29:31.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, we'll be going to our next person in just a second here.
[29:31.750 --> 29:36.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: First, I want to read another piece of listener email to oth@2600.com.
[29:37.390 --> 29:39.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's from an anonymous person.
[29:39.350 --> 29:42.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: Any update on the archive of the 2600 Voice BBS?
[29:42.830 --> 29:43.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good question.
[29:44.590 --> 29:45.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: One I'd like to know as well.
[29:46.570 --> 29:51.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: I know we have a whole lot of recordings that we're going to be releasing.
[29:51.450 --> 29:56.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's just a question of having the time to collate it properly and to display it properly.
[29:56.850 --> 30:08.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: I know with basically all the work on the magazine, the conference now being an annual event, all sorts of other busy work that keeps us from doing even the most basic things.
[30:09.010 --> 30:10.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: Sometimes things get pushed to the back.
[30:10.690 --> 30:18.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: But we are going to try and get to that sooner rather than later because it's super important.
[30:19.490 --> 30:21.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, I believe I saw a hand.
[30:21.290 --> 30:22.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: Is that hand still up?
[30:22.350 --> 30:22.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[30:22.650 --> 30:30.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, a look back at 2024 in tech with Gila.
[30:32.350 --> 30:33.630]  [GILADRAZEN]: So, my...
[30:33.630 --> 30:37.770]  [GILADRAZEN]: Well, originally I was going to talk about Cloudflare outage, so thanks, Alex.
[30:38.070 --> 30:45.030]  [GILADRAZEN]: But, no, one of the stories that really stuck with me, we didn't really get a chance to talk about on air, is from October.
[30:46.030 --> 31:01.950]  [GILADRAZEN]: A mom is suing a company called Character.ai because her son made an AI friend and the mom is now convinced that it is because of the AI friend that her 14-year-old son died by suicide.
[31:02.290 --> 31:06.230]  [GILADRAZEN]: She's suing because the friend was bad.
[31:07.530 --> 31:25.990]  [GILADRAZEN]: And this kind of ties into me, or for me, with the TikTok ban, the phone ban in schools, this whole idea that we'll be able to protect kids from generative AI, from all of these different realms of technology.
[31:26.430 --> 31:36.250]  [GILADRAZEN]: And if we've learned nothing from the past, certainly this year, it's that we can't put some of these things back in the box once they're out.
[31:36.430 --> 31:42.030]  [GILADRAZEN]: But what are we going to gain from this?
[31:42.210 --> 31:46.590]  [GILADRAZEN]: Because what we've learned is if this one service gets shut down, another one's going to open.
[31:47.170 --> 31:49.670]  [GILADRAZEN]: Others are going to create... are going to be created.
[31:51.530 --> 31:59.590]  [GILADRAZEN]: And I think the whole year in tech news has really made me pessimistic for the future.
[32:01.990 --> 32:03.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, yeah, there's nothing new there.
[32:03.970 --> 32:09.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're always pessimistic for the future when looking at news developments of the past or anything like that.
[32:09.790 --> 32:11.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: But, yeah, interesting.
[32:11.530 --> 32:12.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: Very interesting.
[32:12.870 --> 32:13.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, who's next?
[32:13.610 --> 32:18.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: We have a few to get through and a few people haven't done both yet.
[32:18.690 --> 32:21.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: But, okay, I think we have an entry here.
[32:25.000 --> 32:26.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: Prediction 2025 with Alex.
[32:27.740 --> 32:28.860]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's it, yes.
[32:29.260 --> 32:42.380]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, my prediction for 2025 is also based on a story that we had covered just a few weeks ago as well that related to Google's advancements with respect to quantum computing.
[32:42.600 --> 32:51.280]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, I think that quantum computing threats are going to be coming down the pipeline and will no longer be hypothetical in 2025.
[32:51.280 --> 33:08.020]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think that the evolution and the accessibility of quantum computing resources in the hands of foreign adversaries will lead to the actual use of a quantum computing attack on existing encryption technologies.
[33:08.020 --> 33:12.560]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I think this is going to affect the privacy of our communications.
[33:12.720 --> 33:14.460]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's going to throw that into disarray.
[33:14.580 --> 33:16.620]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's going to affect the security of our data.
[33:16.740 --> 33:27.060]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I think it's also going to affect and alter how blockchain technologies are going to evolve as well because that all relates to cryptography as well.
[33:27.060 --> 33:36.460]  [ALEXURBELS]: And so, I think watching the space of quantum computing is going to be really fascinating and eye-opening in 2025.
[33:36.820 --> 33:38.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: You think that's going to happen this year?
[33:38.660 --> 33:41.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: You think it's going to make that dramatic an effect in one year?
[33:42.700 --> 33:49.240]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think that we're going to see attacks on actual encryption technologies using quantum computing resources.
[33:49.240 --> 33:49.640]  [ALEXURBELS]: I do.
[33:50.460 --> 33:58.580]  [ALEXURBELS]: I'd be surprised if we didn't see something by 2026, given the advancements of even the last few months that have been announced with Google.
[33:58.960 --> 34:08.620]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think that there's probably far more advancements in the hands of foreign adversaries that we don't know about or that information about which is classified.
[34:09.080 --> 34:21.760]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, I certainly wouldn't put it past an adversary like China or Russia to try to gain some kind of advantage by using their quantum computing technologies and resources.
[34:26.140 --> 34:28.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: Prediction 2025 with a manual.
[34:28.830 --> 34:30.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: That caught me by surprise, too.
[34:30.760 --> 34:31.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, yeah.
[34:31.300 --> 34:32.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, I have one here.
[34:32.460 --> 34:33.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's very simple, actually.
[34:33.760 --> 34:43.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's basically that artificial intelligence is going to continue to be used as a crutch where, you know, in places where humans should be in complete control.
[34:43.040 --> 34:53.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that is going to result in a disaster of some sort and a complete rethinking of how to regulate and limit AI's influence on our lives.
[34:54.430 --> 34:55.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: I just think there is...
[34:55.960 --> 35:07.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we've seen evidence of that in this show where these massive companies think AI is the answer to everything, think it can act as or replace humans.
[35:07.430 --> 35:12.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I just think, you know, it's all good and fun until somebody gets hurt.
[35:13.020 --> 35:20.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I think somebody's going to get hurt, whether it be in automobile, in an airplane, in a factory, you name it.
[35:20.930 --> 35:27.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: But something, something is bound to happen involving somebody relying on artificial intelligence too much.
[35:27.960 --> 35:42.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, if you don't believe this, just try having a conversation with Chad GPT or Gemini or any one of the number of them that are out there right now and see how long it takes before it gets something completely wrong.
[35:42.720 --> 35:51.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: For me, Gemini has been completely broken the last couple of weeks where I ask it a question and it answers a question from two questions ago.
[35:51.280 --> 35:54.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, it can't even get the back and forth right.
[35:55.140 --> 35:57.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that's just one malfunction.
[35:57.340 --> 36:07.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oftentimes, the facts are wrong and in ways that are just almost comical because it'll contradict itself in one paragraph.
[36:07.220 --> 36:11.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: And then you say, you know, do you realize you just contradicted yourself?
[36:11.380 --> 36:14.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: And the answer is always something to the effect of, you're completely right.
[36:14.400 --> 36:15.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: I am so sorry.
[36:15.360 --> 36:16.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: I am still under development.
[36:16.540 --> 36:19.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you know, a sentence isn't too hard to master.
[36:19.780 --> 36:22.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: At least don't contradict yourself in a couple of those.
[36:22.240 --> 36:23.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, yeah, I don't have much faith.
[36:23.820 --> 36:25.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: I love playing with the technology.
[36:26.040 --> 36:27.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's a great toy.
[36:27.700 --> 36:40.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: But when you start relying upon it to replace human beings that have the nuance and the skill and the foresight, you are making a grave error that we are all going to have to pay for.
[36:40.920 --> 36:44.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm sorry to be so dark, but that's my prediction.
[36:44.620 --> 36:46.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, Rob, are you making a point?
[36:46.920 --> 36:49.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: Are you ready for your entry?
[36:50.520 --> 36:51.880]  [ROBVINCENT]: I am ready for an entry.
[36:51.880 --> 36:52.820]  [ROBVINCENT]: Okay, all right.
[36:53.000 --> 36:54.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, then let me prepare for that.
[36:57.370 --> 37:00.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: A look back at 2024 in tech with Rob.
[37:02.690 --> 37:17.570]  [ROBVINCENT]: A story that is kind of related to my prediction, but this happened back in June where McDonald's had started a pilot program where they were replacing their order-taking employees at their drive-thrus with AI.
[37:18.350 --> 37:20.410]  [ROBVINCENT]: And it did not go well.
[37:20.910 --> 37:22.690]  [ROBVINCENT]: It went actually very poorly.
[37:22.970 --> 37:29.310]  [ROBVINCENT]: There were countless mishaps with people trying to get their orders in for their McDonald's food.
[37:29.910 --> 37:36.470]  [ROBVINCENT]: Viral videos out there with people trying to order one thing and getting just other things added to their order.
[37:36.750 --> 37:41.110]  [ROBVINCENT]: People ending up with hundreds of dollars worth of chicken McNuggets they didn't order.
[37:41.110 --> 37:45.110]  [ROBVINCENT]: somebody with, you know, ice cream getting bacon added to it.
[37:45.590 --> 37:56.170]  [ROBVINCENT]: All sorts of hijinks and goings-on, which is funny, but which is also an example of a company seeing this technology and deciding, oh, here's what we're going to do.
[37:56.310 --> 38:07.930]  [ROBVINCENT]: We're going to replace some of the lowest-paid workers in the American workforce with it, save that money, and take that amount of humanity out of something so basic as a fast food transaction.
[38:08.170 --> 38:09.510]  [ROBVINCENT]: So it did not go well.
[38:09.590 --> 38:11.050]  [ROBVINCENT]: The pilot program was ended.
[38:11.050 --> 38:23.350]  [ROBVINCENT]: But I think stuff like this is just going to keep happening as long as large companies see the promise of being able to save a few cents here and there at the expense of real human consequences.
[38:23.770 --> 38:27.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: Rob, did someone actually get ice cream with bacon?
[38:28.350 --> 38:31.870]  [ROBVINCENT]: I mean, there is ice cream with bacon that is actually very good, but...
[38:31.870 --> 38:32.310]  [ROBVINCENT]: Wait, wait, wait.
[38:32.310 --> 38:32.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's a thing?
[38:33.150 --> 38:33.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's a thing?
[38:34.170 --> 38:34.770]  [ROBVINCENT]: It is.
[38:34.910 --> 38:35.250]  [ROBVINCENT]: It is.
[38:35.430 --> 38:36.730]  [ROBVINCENT]: You know, you should look into it.
[38:36.950 --> 38:39.530]  [ROBVINCENT]: Bacon, brown sugar, there's good stuff going on in the space.
[38:39.690 --> 38:41.210]  [ROBVINCENT]: But there are...
[38:42.110 --> 38:43.990]  [ROBVINCENT]: But there were instances.
[38:44.210 --> 38:46.350]  [ROBVINCENT]: There's videos all over TikTok and other places.
[38:47.470 --> 38:50.810]  [ROBVINCENT]: And the news picked up on some of it.
[38:50.810 --> 38:59.010]  [ROBVINCENT]: And, yeah, it is funny to laugh at people, you know, not getting what they want from a robot that doesn't understand burgers.
[38:59.010 --> 39:06.230]  [ROBVINCENT]: But it's also important to think of the actual human cost behind the decisions that lead to something like this happening.
[39:07.210 --> 39:07.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, yeah.
[39:08.110 --> 39:08.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[39:08.350 --> 39:10.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's definitely something.
[39:10.170 --> 39:10.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, thank you for that.
[39:11.130 --> 39:12.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: That was a good one.
[39:12.530 --> 39:15.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: We have another listener email.
[39:16.050 --> 39:23.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: Actually, this is a repeated reply to, I guess, the show that replied to an email from this person previously.
[39:24.510 --> 39:38.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: If you recall, a couple of weeks ago, this listener told us that we were victim blaming because when individuals or organizations that don't align with our political beliefs get hacked, we criticize them, whereas we don't criticize people like Internet Archive.
[39:38.150 --> 39:39.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we sort of took exception to that.
[39:39.610 --> 39:52.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: And more evidence against us, according to this person, victim blaming scorecard, blame Vivek Ramaswamy for his Twitter slash X account being hacked, not the individuals that maliciously obtained access.
[39:53.170 --> 40:07.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: Look, when you have somebody who is a part of the government who can't keep his Twitter account secure because he uses a stupid password, we're going to make fun of that, you know, because he's not the victim.
[40:07.590 --> 40:19.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're likely to be his victims, you know, and it's important to be able to assign responsibility to people who have to have a certain degree of skill, you know, to do their job.
[40:19.570 --> 40:33.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: And if you can't even make your social media account somewhat secure, you know, from somebody posting embarrassing things in it, you have to question, are you really the person to have an important job in the government?
[40:34.090 --> 40:46.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now, you know, when individuals have all of their records copied throughout the Internet, no, they're not to blame because they trusted the company.
[40:47.350 --> 40:49.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, they are the true victims here.
[40:49.350 --> 40:50.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're not blaming them.
[40:51.170 --> 40:55.310]  [EVILCORLEY]: And the company, as far as I'm concerned, is a perpetrator.
[40:55.470 --> 40:58.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: You can say the people who hacked it, yeah, they're perpetrators too.
[40:58.190 --> 41:07.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: But the company that did not have decent security, decent enough to protect the data that they were entrusted with, I don't see them as victims.
[41:07.770 --> 41:11.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: I see them as people who deserve to be criticized and mocked.
[41:11.850 --> 41:16.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I don't know, I don't really, I don't really see a contradiction here.
[41:16.930 --> 41:17.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Kyle.
[41:18.870 --> 41:19.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: Kyle.
[41:20.850 --> 41:24.030]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I had a past year thing.
[41:24.210 --> 41:24.730]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Oh, okay.
[41:24.730 --> 41:26.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: I thought you were responding to what I said.
[41:26.750 --> 41:28.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: Alex, you're responding and I'll go to you.
[41:28.570 --> 41:29.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: Finish the thought.
[41:29.090 --> 41:30.170]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, everybody, go ahead.
[41:31.670 --> 41:35.970]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, I tend to agree with our listener here.
[41:36.070 --> 41:43.810]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I think I agreed with him in the past that I think we do point the finger and victim shame and blame sometimes here.
[41:45.950 --> 42:07.970]  [ALEXURBELS]: In certain cases, though, as you mentioned, Emmanuel, I think when we're talking about potential government officials with access to classified information, I mean, the suitability to determine the suitability determination as to who can actually have access to classified information and have a security clearance also has to take into account whether that person is going to take seriously the
[42:07.970 --> 42:11.910]  [ALEXURBELS]: obligation to protect that secret information that's classified information.
[42:11.910 --> 42:23.750]  [ALEXURBELS]: So I do think it's relevant, but I think pushing back a bit against our listener that wrote in with the keeping count of the victim shaming and blaming here, which I think is kind of fun.
[42:23.850 --> 42:26.250]  [ALEXURBELS]: I appreciate that he or she does this.
[42:26.590 --> 42:45.290]  [ALEXURBELS]: But pushing back on that point, I do also think that in talking about the breach of Vivek, we also went into the mechanics of these really sophisticated impersonation techniques that have been happening on Twitter and surmised a few weeks ago when we talked about this,
[42:45.370 --> 42:48.550]  [ALEXURBELS]: that this is very likely how Vivek was compromised.
[42:49.090 --> 42:51.390]  [ALEXURBELS]: And so we weren't just victim blaming.
[42:51.550 --> 42:54.970]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think we're also trying to explain how something like this would happen.
[42:55.170 --> 42:57.210]  [ALEXURBELS]: So I'm both agreeing and defending.
[42:57.510 --> 42:57.830]  [ALEXURBELS]: If you're...
[42:57.830 --> 42:58.830]  [ALEXURBELS]: Agree with defending us.
[42:58.830 --> 43:00.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, that's a nice, safe lane to be in.
[43:01.130 --> 43:06.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: But if you're a public figure, you're naturally open to more scrutiny and more ridicule.
[43:07.110 --> 43:08.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's just the way it is.
[43:08.170 --> 43:17.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I don't think we ever take an actual victim, somebody who has lost their life savings and make fun of them or blame them because they should have done better.
[43:17.970 --> 43:21.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's the kind of thing that we actually criticize quite a bit.
[43:21.590 --> 43:24.630]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, especially with organizations and corporate entities.
[43:24.630 --> 43:33.470]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I think there's a trap in this writer's logic that they're themselves persons, like corporate personhood is somehow equivalent.
[43:33.470 --> 43:43.930]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And personally, like, as someone who's been a partner of someone that survived assault, actual assault, I just can't really parse this in the same way without a lot of stuff attached to it.
[43:44.330 --> 43:44.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[43:45.290 --> 43:46.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: Any other thoughts?
[43:47.810 --> 43:48.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I think...
[43:48.750 --> 43:49.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't think it's...
[43:49.890 --> 43:50.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead.
[43:50.730 --> 43:51.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: Finish, Kyle.
[43:51.310 --> 43:51.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: Finish, Kyle.
[43:52.890 --> 43:55.670]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Is hacking somehow digital rape?
[43:55.810 --> 43:56.310]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, I just...
[43:56.310 --> 43:58.110]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I can't get the comparison out of my head.
[43:58.110 --> 43:59.090]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Rob, go ahead.
[43:59.970 --> 44:06.650]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah, I think there's a certain amount of scrutiny that you're under when you decide to make a public figure of yourself.
[44:07.050 --> 44:14.550]  [ROBVINCENT]: And, like, had this guy, you know, walked out of his house one day forgetting to put his pants on and showed up to government in his undies, that would be hilarious.
[44:14.550 --> 44:15.770]  [ROBVINCENT]: And we'd be pointing and laughing.
[44:16.250 --> 44:20.110]  [ROBVINCENT]: And I think when something like this happens, it's similar.
[44:20.110 --> 44:23.610]  [ROBVINCENT]: And you take somebody who is, you know, he was running for president.
[44:23.610 --> 44:32.810]  [ROBVINCENT]: Now he's going to have this high-powered government position and, you know, working ostensibly for all of us in the government.
[44:33.070 --> 44:36.290]  [ROBVINCENT]: And, yeah, he is under more scrutiny than most people.
[44:36.490 --> 44:38.590]  [ROBVINCENT]: He is a public-facing person.
[44:38.590 --> 44:49.390]  [ROBVINCENT]: And when something happens which puts his public-facing person himself in jeopardy like this, I think it's worth pointing a finger.
[44:49.390 --> 44:56.650]  [ROBVINCENT]: And it's worth putting that out there as something that has happened and that we could respond to in that spirit.
[44:56.830 --> 45:03.650]  [GILADRAZEN]: And I think it's also fair to say that in this kind of circumstance, this is something that we can use to learn from.
[45:04.070 --> 45:12.650]  [GILADRAZEN]: Like, it's, you know, if you're going to be in charge of government efficiency and you can't keep your own passwords safe, well, that's not a great look.
[45:13.550 --> 45:15.870]  [GILADRAZEN]: And I wouldn't call that victim-blaming.
[45:15.870 --> 45:23.490]  [GILADRAZEN]: I would say that if you want to say you're going to be responsible for a lot of things, you need to have your own house in order first.
[45:25.190 --> 45:27.130]  [GILADRAZEN]: And, yes, Kyle, I'm with you.
[45:27.230 --> 45:29.750]  [GILADRAZEN]: I resent the language chosen there.
[45:29.950 --> 45:31.290]  [GILADRAZEN]: I think that was...
[45:31.290 --> 45:33.650]  [GILADRAZEN]: It's a very loaded way to phrase it.
[45:35.010 --> 45:37.550]  [GILADRAZEN]: And that is problematic in a lot of ways.
[45:39.570 --> 45:46.050]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yeah, I don't think that Vivek Ramaswamy is as smart as he thinks he is, and I don't think that bodes well for any of us.
[45:46.930 --> 45:47.510]  That's all.
[45:47.770 --> 45:52.870]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Also, the Internet Archive responded and triaged the event pretty well.
[45:53.090 --> 46:02.410]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And also, like, as far as the result of it, I mean, the damage itself to their organization or anybody in particular, people changed passwords.
[46:02.610 --> 46:02.850]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I don't know.
[46:03.030 --> 46:04.050]  [KYLEDROSDK]: People moved on.
[46:04.050 --> 46:09.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: You also have to be somewhat sympathetic when a person or an organization is providing a tremendous service.
[46:09.410 --> 46:18.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: Even if they have lousy security, you kind of want to help them out if they're, you know, trying as hard as they can and people are victimizing them.
[46:18.410 --> 46:22.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't think we would criticize somebody in that particular position.
[46:22.550 --> 46:33.030]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Versus an organization, an enterprise or company that's basically skimming as much, like paying the lowest common denominator for all operating costs and skimming as much as they can to the shareholders.
[46:36.340 --> 46:39.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: A look back at 2024 in tech with Kyle.
[46:40.400 --> 46:40.880]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Okay.
[46:41.060 --> 46:46.260]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I wanted to talk a little bit about BCI, brain-computer interfaces.
[46:46.260 --> 46:47.420]  [KYLEDROSDK]: That was a story this year.
[46:47.580 --> 46:58.540]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I think that's going to be big in the future, but I think that's novel because it points to like how sensitive health systems are and the amount of...
[46:59.000 --> 47:05.580]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It's like the resolution, like I'm talking about in richness of communications.
[47:05.820 --> 47:13.340]  [KYLEDROSDK]: That's a tremendous benefit, but you're sharing so much more of yourself and identity.
[47:13.340 --> 47:15.160]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And there's just a lot there.
[47:15.300 --> 47:36.740]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I think when you have even higher throughput, especially with the potential of interfacing and getting even more sensing and remote abilities, we really have to like look at, okay, so what would that be connected to as far as, you know, the health sector and what is computer security there like and what is,
[47:36.860 --> 47:45.720]  [KYLEDROSDK]: you know, so, okay, so do we have those quantum cryptography like use cases in mind?
[47:45.800 --> 47:55.340]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Because this seems like a perfect application, like guarding people themselves, like your genome from molecular cloning or whatever you're protecting.
[47:55.340 --> 48:08.300]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, it just seems like healthcare and some of the places where we have the richest amount of information about ourselves, those places are going to be so boss with security.
[48:08.300 --> 48:29.420]  [KYLEDROSDK]: They're going to have to be, we're going to have to demand it if this stuff is pushed because I like, it's one thing to like risk your personal brand with these so-called titans of industry, but like, we're really going to let them call the shots on, on down to your molecules.
[48:29.420 --> 48:30.900]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, I don't know.
[48:31.640 --> 48:32.820]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm thinking about that.
[48:32.960 --> 48:35.520]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I also have a lot of interest in labor action.
[48:39.340 --> 48:41.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: Prediction 2025 with Gila.
[48:42.580 --> 48:44.760]  [GILADRAZEN]: Less of a prediction, more of a hope.
[48:44.880 --> 48:53.280]  [GILADRAZEN]: And it is that Elon Musk will have his face eaten by the leopards he has been so actively promoting.
[48:53.280 --> 48:56.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: Isn't that the exact threat that Steve Bannon sent his way?
[48:57.080 --> 48:58.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: He's going to eat his face?
[48:59.120 --> 49:00.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: Have his face eaten?
[49:00.420 --> 49:01.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: Or I don't know what it was exactly.
[49:01.940 --> 49:21.300]  [GILADRAZEN]: I mean, I'm just using the metaphor of leopards ate my face, which, look, what I'm hoping for is that at the end of 2025, if not earlier, Elon Musk will be a non-factor in politics and in technology.
[49:22.520 --> 49:27.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's my wish that the same would be true of Donald Trump, even though he never was a factor in technology.
[49:27.820 --> 49:28.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: Did we get to everybody?
[49:28.980 --> 49:29.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because I lost track.
[49:29.760 --> 49:30.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: I wasn't keeping track.
[49:30.460 --> 49:31.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: Everybody did, too?
[49:31.860 --> 49:33.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, because...
[49:33.060 --> 49:33.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: That was hard.
[49:33.640 --> 49:33.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: We'll check.
[49:33.980 --> 49:34.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: It was hard, wasn't it?
[49:34.780 --> 49:36.080]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I was racking my brain the whole time.
[49:36.200 --> 49:38.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, but you didn't have to deal with the stupid music the whole time, either.
[49:39.020 --> 49:39.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: I had to do that.
[49:39.740 --> 49:40.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: I almost hit the wrong one once.
[49:41.120 --> 49:42.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: Alex, you have about 10 seconds.
[49:42.900 --> 49:43.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead.
[49:43.120 --> 49:53.340]  [ALEXURBELS]: I got one prediction that we know is going to come true that I think will make everybody really happy, is that our dear friend, Virgil Griffith, will be getting out of federal prison in 2025.
[49:54.200 --> 50:00.040]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think the latest that he's going to be getting out to a halfway house will be April, hopefully sooner than that.
[50:00.140 --> 50:04.060]  [ALEXURBELS]: But that's something very much to look forward to and what will happen in 2025.
[50:04.520 --> 50:04.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[50:04.960 --> 50:05.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: That sounds great.
[50:06.120 --> 50:07.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, Rob, are there meetings this Friday?
[50:08.340 --> 50:09.000]  [ROBVINCENT]: There are.
[50:09.160 --> 50:10.560]  [ROBVINCENT]: 2600 meetings happening everywhere.
[50:10.560 --> 50:14.300]  [ROBVINCENT]: Go to 2600.com/meetings to find or start one near you.
[50:14.920 --> 50:15.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[50:15.180 --> 50:24.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: And you can write to us, oth@2600.com, with your thoughts and comments, predictions or acknowledgements of the year past, the year ahead.
[50:24.580 --> 50:27.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: We want to hear your input as well.
[50:27.520 --> 50:35.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, of course, continue to support WBAI because this is the place that allows us to have these kinds of conversations in the first place.
[50:35.740 --> 50:39.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now, we have overtime coming up on YouTube at 8 p.m.
[50:39.700 --> 50:40.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: Eastern time.
[50:40.200 --> 50:49.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, go to Channel2600 on YouTube to find us there or simply look at the link that's on the front page of 2600.com.
[50:50.260 --> 50:51.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: Happy New Year, everybody.
[50:51.300 --> 51:09.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: In the year 2525, if man is still alive, if woman can survive, they may fall.
[51:18.280 --> 51:26.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: In the year 2525, ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies.
[51:26.840 --> 51:32.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: Everything you think, do, and say is in the bill you took today.
[51:33.620 --> 51:48.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: In the year 4545, ain't gonna need to tell the truth, won't need to tell the truth, you won't find a thing to chew, nobody's gonna look at you.
[51:49.180 --> 52:00.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: In the year 5555, your arms are hanging limp at your side, your legs got nothing to do.
[52:00.280 --> 52:04.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Some machine doing that for you.
[52:04.660 --> 52:11.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: In the year 6565, ain't gonna need no husband, don't need no wife.
[52:11.840 --> 52:15.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: You pick your son, pick your daughter too.
[52:16.380 --> 52:20.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: From the bottom of a long-lasting, whoa, whoa.
[52:27.530 --> 52:35.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: In the year 7510, if God's a-comin', he ought to make it by then.
[52:35.630 --> 52:42.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: Maybe he'll look around himself and say, yes, it's time for the judgment day.
[52:42.350 --> 52:50.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: In the year 8510, God is gonna shake his mind in his head.
[52:50.750 --> 52:58.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: He'll either say, I'm pleased where man has been, or carry it down and start again, whoa, whoa.
[53:02.430 --> 53:09.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: In the year 9595, I'm kind of wondering if man is gonna be alive.
[53:09.670 --> 53:18.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: He's taken everything this old earth can kill, and he ain't put back nothing, whoa, whoa.
[53:18.910 --> 53:27.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now it's been 10,000 years, man has cried a billion tears, for what he never knew.
[53:27.750 --> 53:36.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: Now man's reign is through, but through eternal night, the twinkling of starlight.
[53:36.310 --> 53:41.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: So very far away, maybe it's only yesterday.
[53:43.530 --> 53:50.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: In the year 2525, if man is still alive.
[53:51.490 --> 53:55.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: If woman can survive, they may fall.
[53:58.730 --> 54:03.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: In the year 2525, if man is still alive.
[54:10.970 --> 54:16.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: And welcome, everybody, to Off The Hook Overtime, here on YouTube.
[54:17.110 --> 54:20.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: We have a little bit of technical issues here, which hopefully are resolved.
[54:20.950 --> 54:25.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: Kyle, did you make it into Skype-land, into YouTube-land, Overtime land?
[54:26.270 --> 54:27.110]  [KYLEDROSDK]: What do you mean, make it?
[54:27.110 --> 54:27.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know.
[54:27.710 --> 54:28.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, you're here.
[54:29.350 --> 54:31.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: Skype-land, people, are you there?
[54:32.550 --> 54:33.130]  [ROBVINCENT]: We are.
[54:33.270 --> 54:33.870]  [ROBVINCENT]: We are here.
[54:33.930 --> 54:34.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: We are so here.
[54:34.970 --> 54:36.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: Are we on YouTube, in fact?
[54:36.450 --> 54:38.230]  [ROBVINCENT]: We are on YouTube as well, and we sound good.
[54:38.230 --> 54:39.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I couldn't ask for anything more, then.
[54:40.010 --> 54:43.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: Boy, okay, well, I think we still have the hum.
[54:43.870 --> 54:44.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: Do you guys hear the hum?
[54:44.950 --> 54:45.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: Can you hear the hum?
[54:46.190 --> 54:47.470]  [ROBVINCENT]: We do not hear the hum.
[54:47.590 --> 54:48.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, you don't hear the hum?
[54:48.810 --> 54:56.990]  [ROBVINCENT]: No, and when you were mentioning the hum, Alex and us were all muted, so it's not something coming from us, I don't think.
[54:57.270 --> 55:02.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: Right, okay, but maybe it's not anything that's going past our own headphones here in the studio.
[55:02.350 --> 55:03.350]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It might be our headphone mixer.
[55:03.650 --> 55:03.990]  [KYLEDROSDK]: All right.
[55:04.130 --> 55:05.110]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We'll play with it later.
[55:05.610 --> 55:07.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're always looking for things to distract us.
[55:07.430 --> 55:08.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, wait, where's the...
[55:08.290 --> 55:09.830]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, we found that.
[55:09.970 --> 55:10.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[55:10.890 --> 55:16.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: Our phone number here, by the way, you can call us, 802-321-4225.
[55:18.010 --> 55:19.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: We'd love to hear from you.
[55:21.050 --> 55:24.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I'd love to never hear this music again.
[55:29.450 --> 55:30.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's a bad idea.
[55:30.570 --> 55:31.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: Just a bad idea.
[55:32.530 --> 55:33.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[55:35.690 --> 55:37.790]  [ALEXURBELS]: Are we going to use that...
[55:37.790 --> 55:40.970]  [ALEXURBELS]: Are we going to be asking our callers for their predictions tonight?
[55:41.150 --> 55:42.170]  [ALEXURBELS]: Is that part of this?
[55:42.250 --> 55:44.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: We don't ask our callers for anything.
[55:44.370 --> 55:46.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: Our callers are completely independent.
[55:46.510 --> 55:47.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: They can do whatever they wish.
[55:48.170 --> 55:55.310]  [EVILCORLEY]: So if they want to give us predictions or, you know, tell us something about 2024, they're welcome to, but they don't have to.
[55:56.690 --> 56:12.370]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, I'd suggest that we use the sound effects and request ample notice for either a prediction or some kind of retrospective so that you can get the maximum amount of value out of all of this preparation for today's episode.
[56:12.570 --> 56:16.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I've already closed the file, but I'll reopen it again if there's a demand for it.
[56:17.110 --> 56:17.410]  [ALEXURBELS]: All right.
[56:17.530 --> 56:17.950]  [ALEXURBELS]: Very good.
[56:18.210 --> 56:19.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: Great expense to me.
[56:20.050 --> 56:21.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, Rob, go ahead.
[56:21.110 --> 56:22.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm going to sit back for a little bit.
[56:23.550 --> 56:41.750]  [ROBVINCENT]: One thing I'm very excited about this New Year's Day, as I am every New Year's Day, is Public Domain Day, which you out there listening and you here joining me on this program may know is the day where we celebrate all the new things that the public domain now has access to because the copyrights have run out.
[56:42.210 --> 56:46.410]  [ROBVINCENT]: And this Public Domain Day is a landmark Public Domain Day.
[56:46.550 --> 57:01.410]  [ROBVINCENT]: It's a milestone Public Domain Day because everything made in the 1920s, every, every, every film, text, song, image, everything from the 1920s is now in the public domain.
[57:01.610 --> 57:10.250]  [ROBVINCENT]: That doesn't extend to sound recordings, particular sound recordings, which have their own extra loop, you know, leaps and bounds of copyright protecting them.
[57:10.370 --> 57:15.330]  [ROBVINCENT]: But the song, the song itself, the composition and the lyrics, those are public domain now.
[57:15.330 --> 57:21.710]  [ROBVINCENT]: So we have, we have now all sorts of new good stuff that belongs to all of us in pop culture.
[57:22.390 --> 57:27.630]  [ROBVINCENT]: Things like A Farewell to Arms by Hemingway, A Room of One's Own by Virginia Woolf, some nice light reading there.
[57:28.410 --> 57:29.910]  [ROBVINCENT]: Cup of Gold by John Steinbeck.
[57:30.770 --> 57:37.150]  [ROBVINCENT]: Lots of, lots of great films, more Mickey Mouse films, including the talking version of Mickey Mouse is now Public Domain.
[57:37.930 --> 57:43.970]  [ROBVINCENT]: The Skeleton Dance by Disney, which was a very exciting cartoon in its day and is still very popular.
[57:45.670 --> 57:50.550]  [ROBVINCENT]: The, let's see, Blackmail, Alfred Hitchcock's first sound film is now Public Domain.
[57:50.950 --> 58:00.890]  [ROBVINCENT]: The Coconuts, which is the first Marx Brothers film, now belongs to all of us as, you know, and we just rewatched it recently and a lot of it holds up.
[58:00.890 --> 58:05.690]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, John Ford's The Black Watch, uh, all sorts of exciting things.
[58:05.870 --> 58:09.250]  [ROBVINCENT]: Popeye, the character, is now, uh, is now Public Domain.
[58:09.570 --> 58:14.290]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, Tintin, um, from the famous stories is now Public Domain.
[58:14.710 --> 58:18.070]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, Singing in the Rain, the song, is, uh, Public Domain.
[58:18.170 --> 58:20.130]  [ROBVINCENT]: You can sing it, you can publish it, you can cover it.
[58:20.630 --> 58:22.850]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, and it is, uh, free to use.
[58:22.970 --> 58:25.870]  [ROBVINCENT]: Bolero by Ravel, An American in Paris by Gershwin.
[58:26.070 --> 58:27.130]  [ROBVINCENT]: Ain't Misbehavin'.
[58:27.130 --> 58:27.470]  [ROBVINCENT]: Wait, whoa, whoa, hold on.
[58:27.470 --> 58:28.690]  [ROBVINCENT]: You're now Ain't Misbehavin'.
[58:28.690 --> 58:30.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hold on, Bolero by Ravel?
[58:30.010 --> 58:31.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, that's just becoming available now?
[58:32.430 --> 58:33.490]  [ROBVINCENT]: It is, yes.
[58:33.750 --> 58:34.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh-huh.
[58:34.230 --> 58:36.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wasn't that written in, like, 1493 or something?
[58:37.030 --> 58:39.890]  [ROBVINCENT]: No, it was, uh, 1928 is when it was made.
[58:40.130 --> 58:40.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[58:40.630 --> 58:43.970]  [ROBVINCENT]: And, uh, you know, published in this country in, uh, in 29.
[58:44.170 --> 58:46.670]  [ROBVINCENT]: And so it is, it is now Public Domain.
[58:47.310 --> 58:49.550]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, and, uh, yeah.
[58:49.750 --> 58:51.390]  [ROBVINCENT]: All sorts of, all sorts of cool stuff.
[58:51.670 --> 58:53.270]  [ROBVINCENT]: Uh, and, yeah.
[58:53.390 --> 59:07.150]  [ROBVINCENT]: If you, if you look up, uh, if you do a search for Public Domain Day, there is a great page at, uh, Duke Law, which, uh, has a, which has a center directly, uh, directly covering Public Domain and which is instrumental in celebrating Public Domain Day.
[59:07.290 --> 59:13.270]  [ROBVINCENT]: And you can see all kinds of cool lists of things that now belong, um, to you, along with everyone else in this country.
[59:14.190 --> 59:15.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, it belongs to all of us.
[59:15.990 --> 59:16.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: Mm-hmm.
[59:16.590 --> 59:18.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: Not just, not just to you.
[59:19.670 --> 59:20.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[59:20.310 --> 59:20.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[59:20.870 --> 59:21.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's, that's, that's good news.
[59:22.170 --> 59:22.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good to know.
[59:24.410 --> 59:25.190]  [ROBVINCENT]: Very cool stuff.
[59:25.910 --> 59:27.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: We, uh, have open phone lines.
[59:28.010 --> 59:29.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: 802-321-4225.
[59:30.650 --> 59:32.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: 802-321-4225.
[59:33.750 --> 59:34.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: Something to say, Kyle?
[59:35.410 --> 59:36.850]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Well, they're not open right now.
[59:37.030 --> 59:38.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: What do you mean they're not open right now?
[59:38.250 --> 59:38.950]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Because we have a call.
[59:39.330 --> 59:40.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: I didn't know we had a call.
[59:40.470 --> 59:41.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: I didn't hear the phone ring.
[59:41.310 --> 59:41.630]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[59:41.910 --> 59:42.150]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Wow.
[59:42.270 --> 59:42.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[59:43.450 --> 59:44.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[59:44.250 --> 59:44.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good evening.
[59:44.810 --> 59:46.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[59:46.690 --> 59:47.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, Emmanuel.
[59:48.270 --> 59:49.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's, it's, it's Rebel.
[59:49.670 --> 59:50.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: You could have mentioned that too, Kyle.
[59:51.030 --> 59:54.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: But, um, I guess you didn't, um, feel that was important.
[59:54.830 --> 59:55.810]  [KYLEDROSDK]: The check cleared.
[59:56.750 --> 59:57.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, Rebel.
[59:57.570 --> 01:00:00.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: What's, uh, what's on your mind this, this New Year's Day?
[01:00:00.730 --> 01:00:06.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: You might like to predict that everyone will have a very efficient computing experience.
[01:00:08.370 --> 01:00:08.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:00:08.930 --> 01:00:10.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: What the hell does that mean?
[01:00:10.690 --> 01:00:11.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[01:00:11.270 --> 01:00:20.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: Ever since I got my nice new all-in-one that I have Linux on, it's very, you know, efficient because when I had this all-in-one, it came with Windows 11.
[01:00:20.670 --> 01:00:32.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's, uh, for some reason, this model of HP computer does not work well with Windows 11 because sometimes Windows 11, like, doesn't, it's, uh, lags on some computers.
[01:00:32.690 --> 01:00:34.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: And this was one of them.
[01:00:34.110 --> 01:00:37.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it was a really good thing that, I mean, the laptop that I bought, it worked fine.
[01:00:37.910 --> 01:00:40.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: But this, this didn't work well with it.
[01:00:40.950 --> 01:00:43.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, this, uh, ever since I couldn't, we put Linux on it.
[01:00:44.050 --> 01:00:48.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, we've been, uh, I don't know, it's been working great.
[01:00:48.330 --> 01:00:50.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: So Linux did a rescue yet again.
[01:00:51.710 --> 01:00:52.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[01:00:52.270 --> 01:00:58.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, what I'm looking for is an alternative to text now, because they have a lot of advertisements.
[01:00:59.290 --> 01:01:00.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and let me just mention one thing.
[01:01:01.190 --> 01:01:02.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'll get back to that in a minute.
[01:01:03.050 --> 01:01:10.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I noticed that I, I wanted to, you know, get a haircut because somebody that I know works at this barbershop and I wanted to make an appointment.
[01:01:10.590 --> 01:01:11.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: They said, well, you make an appointment.
[01:01:11.650 --> 01:01:13.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: I figured I'd call and make an appointment.
[01:01:13.330 --> 01:01:14.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no, you got to do it online.
[01:01:14.730 --> 01:01:16.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's not go to their website.
[01:01:16.130 --> 01:01:22.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: You go to the third-party website and you have to give them your credit card number.
[01:01:22.530 --> 01:01:24.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have to give them your, like, information phone number.
[01:01:25.010 --> 01:01:26.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I just want to make an appointment.
[01:01:27.190 --> 01:01:30.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I've heard of people doing this with job applications.
[01:01:31.010 --> 01:01:39.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you have to create an account to, to, to, you know, for this chain of, be it movie theaters, a supermarket.
[01:01:40.050 --> 01:01:40.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm with you.
[01:01:40.970 --> 01:01:42.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm with, I'm with you on this.
[01:01:42.410 --> 01:01:46.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's, it's, it's nonsense that you have to make accounts to do the most basic of things.
[01:01:46.130 --> 01:01:50.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'd use a different barbershop or, you know, just knock on the door and say, hey, can I get my haircut now?
[01:01:50.950 --> 01:01:56.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, no, it's, I know the person that works there that does the, you know, the haircut.
[01:01:56.590 --> 01:01:57.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I asked them about that.
[01:01:58.030 --> 01:01:58.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: I said, can you do that?
[01:01:58.930 --> 01:02:06.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: I said, well, no, the owner doesn't want to do, you got to do it this way because people have been making appointments and not showing up or things like that.
[01:02:07.070 --> 01:02:07.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:02:07.430 --> 01:02:10.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: But if you're literally there, obviously you're going to show up.
[01:02:10.330 --> 01:02:11.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: So I don't know.
[01:02:11.030 --> 01:02:21.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: So I see why people want to embrace the new way of doing things, but also you got to hold on to the old way too, because that's what a lot of people still want to use.
[01:02:21.910 --> 01:02:23.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: And to exclude them, you're going to lose customers.
[01:02:24.130 --> 01:02:27.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, why don't you just have your website, you know, barber.com.
[01:02:27.470 --> 01:02:31.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I'm not going to give it a name, but, or whatever, whatever barber, the name is.
[01:02:32.010 --> 01:02:32.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Barber.com.
[01:02:33.110 --> 01:02:33.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, that's a good one.
[01:02:34.750 --> 01:02:41.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, um, whatever the name is, the barbershop or whatever the name is, the establishment.com.
[01:02:41.510 --> 01:02:45.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then have your website, uh, a quick, would you like to make an appointment?
[01:02:45.370 --> 01:02:45.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Make an appointment.
[01:02:46.730 --> 01:02:48.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: Here's the list of barbers that we have.
[01:02:48.630 --> 01:02:50.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: Would you like to make an appointment with this partner?
[01:02:50.910 --> 01:02:51.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know.
[01:02:51.510 --> 01:02:54.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: Have you ever, Rebel, have you ever made a website?
[01:02:55.070 --> 01:03:01.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'm thinking of like going to like GoDaddy and saying like, you know, is Is barber.com available or is... That's not what I mean.
[01:03:02.030 --> 01:03:05.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, have you ever designed a website with functionality in it?
[01:03:05.490 --> 01:03:08.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not the easiest thing in the world to do.
[01:03:08.650 --> 01:03:14.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, the people that do know how to do this tend not to be around too much to do it for others.
[01:03:14.810 --> 01:03:23.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: So it's, you know, I can see why somebody would go for something where somebody else is involved, although it cuts into their profits as well.
[01:03:23.030 --> 01:03:30.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: But that's why you have all these food delivery services and the restaurants don't do it themselves because it's hard.
[01:03:30.470 --> 01:03:31.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's hard work.
[01:03:31.750 --> 01:03:34.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, you want to hand it off to somebody else.
[01:03:35.110 --> 01:03:41.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, you have somebody like Wix or like one of these website companies that make a website for you, design it for you.
[01:03:41.530 --> 01:03:52.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: The barber shop can say, I like a website and I like, here's the list of barbers, here's the pictures and, you know, here's our phone number and just make a website so that people can make appointments.
[01:03:52.150 --> 01:03:53.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's probably what they've done.
[01:03:53.550 --> 01:03:55.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: They've probably done that to an extent.
[01:03:55.790 --> 01:03:59.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: They might have overdone it a bit by saying it's the only way you can make appointments.
[01:03:59.930 --> 01:04:03.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: But it's, you know, you're trusting a third-party to get involved.
[01:04:04.590 --> 01:04:16.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: And same thing with doing, getting a job at one of these chain, like really, either movie theater or supermarket or something where you go on a website and then, you know, click on, you know, hiring or whatever.
[01:04:16.410 --> 01:04:21.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then, you know, create an account with your username and, you know, I don't want a password.
[01:04:21.610 --> 01:04:22.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just applying for it.
[01:04:22.810 --> 01:04:24.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: I want, I mean, one...
[01:04:24.190 --> 01:04:27.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: They're, Rebel, they're testing, they're testing your commitment at that stage.
[01:04:27.610 --> 01:04:31.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: They're saying, well, if this person really wants a job, he'll do what we, you know, he'll jump through some...
[01:04:31.470 --> 01:04:33.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, another chain does not do that.
[01:04:33.690 --> 01:04:34.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Another chain does that.
[01:04:34.510 --> 01:04:35.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: They have a list.
[01:04:35.190 --> 01:04:35.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: They said, are you hiring?
[01:04:36.030 --> 01:04:40.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, she has a list of our locations, which location you want to work on.
[01:04:40.310 --> 01:04:44.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you click the location and then you put your name and simple information and then they get back to you.
[01:04:44.750 --> 01:04:45.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: Different people do things differently.
[01:04:46.130 --> 01:04:46.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's how it works.
[01:04:46.970 --> 01:04:47.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:04:47.270 --> 01:04:49.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: So go with the one that you're most comfortable with.
[01:04:53.490 --> 01:04:53.970]  Right.
[01:04:53.970 --> 01:05:07.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, I was going to mention an alternative to text now because they have all these advertisements and like, you know, you know, when you use it on your phone.
[01:05:07.190 --> 01:05:17.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm looking for the, there's something on a, there's a, what do they call it?
[01:05:17.650 --> 01:05:24.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: A voiceover IT service that I'm looking for that is good, but you have to put it on your computer.
[01:05:25.130 --> 01:05:34.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is why, this is one good thing about Google that the Chrome that makes it so that you, you know, it's savior, whatever you did on Chrome for the past 30 days.
[01:05:34.750 --> 01:05:35.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm trying to look for...
[01:05:35.950 --> 01:05:37.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think they all do that.
[01:05:37.850 --> 01:05:41.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty sure Firefox can do the same thing.
[01:05:41.490 --> 01:05:50.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just trying to remember what, what the name of that, um, voiceover IT service was that I, that I use.
[01:05:50.510 --> 01:05:55.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: That, that's good, but you have to put it on your computer and it doesn't run on Linux.
[01:05:55.550 --> 01:05:57.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, do you know of any things?
[01:05:57.710 --> 01:06:00.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I, what I want to do is, I don't want to use like, um, asterix.
[01:06:01.370 --> 01:06:04.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: Asterix is like a business kind of a thing.
[01:06:04.750 --> 01:06:07.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like for many lines of this.
[01:06:08.510 --> 01:06:16.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have like a simple, because Google, Google, Google, um, voice, for some reason, they're, they're getting rid of Google voice.
[01:06:17.630 --> 01:06:19.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: They're getting rid of Google voice.
[01:06:19.990 --> 01:06:22.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they're doing away with the Google voice feature.
[01:06:22.470 --> 01:06:24.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wait, is that what we're using right now?
[01:06:24.730 --> 01:06:25.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: Kayla, you look flustered.
[01:06:26.070 --> 01:06:26.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: Are we getting this wrong?
[01:06:28.710 --> 01:06:29.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I think you're muted.
[01:06:29.770 --> 01:06:34.290]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yeah, Rebel, Rebel, you've told us repeatedly that Google voice is going away.
[01:06:34.290 --> 01:06:35.710]  [GILADRAZEN]: And it's never been true.
[01:06:36.050 --> 01:06:37.370]  [GILADRAZEN]: It's still not true.
[01:06:37.670 --> 01:06:38.790]  [GILADRAZEN]: Somebody at Google told me.
[01:06:39.010 --> 01:06:40.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: Someone at, you talked to somebody at Google?
[01:06:41.510 --> 01:06:42.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: How do you do that?
[01:06:42.870 --> 01:06:45.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: At the Google, at the Google store in Manhattan.
[01:06:45.650 --> 01:06:47.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: The Google store in Manhattan.
[01:06:47.810 --> 01:06:48.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, they'd know.
[01:06:50.010 --> 01:06:52.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: I said, why isn't my Google account working?
[01:06:52.930 --> 01:06:55.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, they're doing away with the voice feature.
[01:06:55.650 --> 01:06:58.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe they just wanted you not to ask any more questions.
[01:06:59.650 --> 01:07:00.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know.
[01:07:00.450 --> 01:07:01.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's just a theory.
[01:07:03.230 --> 01:07:04.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: They like that to me.
[01:07:06.810 --> 01:07:12.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, Rebel, while you're typing and figuring things out, we're going to get some more calls in here, if that's okay with you.
[01:07:12.830 --> 01:07:13.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:07:13.690 --> 01:07:13.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:07:14.190 --> 01:07:14.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right?
[01:07:15.170 --> 01:07:15.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[01:07:15.790 --> 01:07:16.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:07:17.650 --> 01:07:18.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, have a good night.
[01:07:19.230 --> 01:07:20.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, I'll be in California next week.
[01:07:21.010 --> 01:07:21.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[01:07:21.450 --> 01:07:22.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: We look forward to it.
[01:07:22.770 --> 01:07:23.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good night.
[01:07:23.290 --> 01:07:23.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[01:07:25.410 --> 01:07:28.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: 802-321-4225 is our telephone number.
[01:07:28.910 --> 01:07:30.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: 802-321-4225.
[01:07:32.350 --> 01:07:32.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:07:32.990 --> 01:07:35.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, did you hear this story about Volkswagen?
[01:07:36.130 --> 01:07:39.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: Their automotive software company.
[01:07:41.170 --> 01:07:42.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: Nobody knows the name of this, right?
[01:07:42.930 --> 01:07:45.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: Does anybody know the name of Volkswagen's automotive software company?
[01:07:46.830 --> 01:07:47.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: You can say no.
[01:07:48.090 --> 01:07:48.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:07:48.910 --> 01:07:49.730]  [GILADRAZEN]: Can't say that I do.
[01:07:50.010 --> 01:07:50.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: Cariad.
[01:07:51.330 --> 01:07:51.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: Cariad.
[01:07:52.090 --> 01:07:53.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: C-A-R-I-A-D.
[01:07:53.310 --> 01:07:53.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: Never heard of them.
[01:07:54.010 --> 01:07:57.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: They expose data collected from around 800,000 electric cars.
[01:07:58.510 --> 01:08:01.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, you may not have heard of them, but they may have heard of you.
[01:08:01.890 --> 01:08:09.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: The info could be linked to drivers' names and reveal precise vehicle locations.
[01:08:10.270 --> 01:08:10.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: Terabytes.
[01:08:11.510 --> 01:08:23.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: Terabytes of Volkswagen customer details and Amazon cloud storage remained unprotected for months, allowing anyone with little technical knowledge to track drivers' movement or gather personal information.
[01:08:23.690 --> 01:08:37.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: The exposed databases include details for VW, seat, whatever seat is, Audi and Skoda vehicles, with geolocation data for some of them being as precise as a few centimeters.
[01:08:37.910 --> 01:08:39.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, a few centimeters.
[01:08:39.210 --> 01:08:46.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: Access to the car data was possible due to Cariad's incorrect configuration in two IT applications.
[01:08:46.650 --> 01:08:50.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's according to a company representative who spoke to Bleeping Computer.
[01:08:50.370 --> 01:09:04.310]  [EVILCORLEY]: Cariad was informed on November 26th of the issue by our friends over at the Chaos Computer Club, CCC, the largest organization of ethical hackers in Europe, that for more than 30 years have promoted security, privacy, and free access to information.
[01:09:04.310 --> 01:09:19.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: According to the German publication Der Spiegel, the CCC found out about the vulnerability from a whistleblower and tested the insecure access before informing Cariad and Volkswagen and providing technical details.
[01:09:19.890 --> 01:09:27.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: A Cariad spokesman said that the exposed data affected only vehicles connected to the Internet and had not... and basically had been registered for online services.
[01:09:27.410 --> 01:09:39.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: From the nearly 800,000 vehicles exposed, the researchers found geolocation data for 460,000 cars, for some of them with an accuracy of 10 centimeters.
[01:09:40.410 --> 01:09:49.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: A little over 30 vehicles were part of Hamburg police's fleet of patrol cars, while others belonged to suspected intelligence service employees, Quindert de Spiegel.
[01:09:49.990 --> 01:10:00.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: The company said that the CCC hackers could access the data only after bypassing several security that required significant time and technical expertise.
[01:10:00.810 --> 01:10:05.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: And because individual vehicle data was pseudonymized... pseudonymized?
[01:10:06.210 --> 01:10:07.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: How do you say that?
[01:10:07.550 --> 01:10:08.530]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Pseudo-anonymous?
[01:10:08.850 --> 01:10:10.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, no, that's not how it looks.
[01:10:10.670 --> 01:10:11.350]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Pseudo-anonymous?
[01:10:11.710 --> 01:10:13.130]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Not pseudonymized.
[01:10:13.170 --> 01:10:13.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: Did you say that?
[01:10:13.890 --> 01:10:14.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: No.
[01:10:14.330 --> 01:10:15.790]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Pseudo-anonymized.
[01:10:16.470 --> 01:10:17.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: Pseudo-anonymized.
[01:10:17.130 --> 01:10:17.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, whatever.
[01:10:18.310 --> 01:10:19.170]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Pseudo-anonymous.
[01:10:19.190 --> 01:10:19.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: I hate that word.
[01:10:20.050 --> 01:10:26.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: For privacy purposes, the hackers had to combine different data sets to associate the details with a particular user.
[01:10:26.730 --> 01:10:34.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: However, de Spiegel assembled a team of IT experts and journalists who found location details collected from the cars of two German politicians.
[01:10:35.950 --> 01:10:37.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: So there's that.
[01:10:39.310 --> 01:10:40.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, that's something.
[01:10:41.310 --> 01:10:47.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: And in that particular case, you know, you got to blame the company for not doing its job of keeping this data secure.
[01:10:47.210 --> 01:10:56.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: However, but no doubt that was talked about at the CCC, at Congress over in Hamburg this past week.
[01:10:56.530 --> 01:10:58.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I'm sure there's a video of that someplace.
[01:10:59.730 --> 01:11:00.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: So yeah, okay.
[01:11:00.790 --> 01:11:02.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: 802-321-4225.
[01:11:02.550 --> 01:11:05.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm going to hold the phone lines open just for a little while longer.
[01:11:07.590 --> 01:11:22.330]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah, but about that carry-out story, like, it's wild because the location of someone's vehicle is... I can't think of very many pieces of data that would be more potentially dangerous in terms of actual real-world personal security.
[01:11:22.570 --> 01:11:29.550]  [ROBVINCENT]: You know, if, you know, I think a lot of people have reasons to not want the world to have access to their location.
[01:11:30.230 --> 01:11:35.150]  [ROBVINCENT]: The other interesting thing about the word carry-out is it's a Welsh name that means love.
[01:11:35.770 --> 01:11:39.050]  [ROBVINCENT]: So yeah, I don't know.
[01:11:39.150 --> 01:11:41.130]  [ROBVINCENT]: I don't know if that's cosmically significant here.
[01:11:43.790 --> 01:11:44.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: No phone calls, Kyle?
[01:11:46.650 --> 01:11:48.150]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm going to say no.
[01:11:48.490 --> 01:11:50.930]  [KYLEDROSDK]: The phone line is open, as it has been.
[01:11:51.150 --> 01:11:51.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:11:52.870 --> 01:11:54.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, I've got one more story here.
[01:11:54.490 --> 01:11:57.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: And Alex, I'm going to ask you for your opinion on this because it's been all over the news.
[01:11:59.330 --> 01:12:01.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: Chinese state-sponsored hackers have breached the U.S.
[01:12:01.930 --> 01:12:05.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: Treasury Department's computer security guardrails this month, or last month.
[01:12:05.650 --> 01:12:08.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: They stole documents in what Treasury called a major incident.
[01:12:09.530 --> 01:12:11.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's according to a letter to lawmakers.
[01:12:12.450 --> 01:12:17.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: That Treasury officials provided to Reuters on Monday.
[01:12:17.350 --> 01:12:22.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: The hackers compromised third-party cybersecurity service provider BeyondTrust.
[01:12:22.850 --> 01:12:23.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow, what a name.
[01:12:24.290 --> 01:12:28.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: And were able to access unclassified documents, the letter said.
[01:12:28.530 --> 01:12:40.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: According to that letter, hackers gained access to a key used by the vendor to secure a cloud-based service used to remotely provide technical support for Treasury Department offices and end users.
[01:12:40.510 --> 01:12:54.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: With access to the stolen key, the threat actor was able to override the service's security, remotely access certain Treasury user workstations, and access certain unclassified documents maintained by those users.
[01:12:54.050 --> 01:12:55.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: How big a deal is this?
[01:12:56.530 --> 01:13:11.210]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, I think it's a big deal in that it shows us, again, the lengths to which China and other sophisticated foreign adversaries will go in order to access confidential information of the federal government.
[01:13:11.590 --> 01:13:16.870]  [ALEXURBELS]: What's also fascinating about this, too, is that they're going after Treasury-related data here.
[01:13:16.870 --> 01:13:24.210]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's not necessarily classified information intelligence, probably economically motivated in some ways.
[01:13:24.210 --> 01:13:36.670]  [ALEXURBELS]: Maybe they were looking at perhaps sanctions-related data, maybe something with OFAC, OFAC, the Office of Foreign Asset Controls, or CFIUS, the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States.
[01:13:36.670 --> 01:13:55.370]  [ALEXURBELS]: These are things that are highly sensitive, especially with respect to international trade and companies that may have operations within the United States, who are thinking about doing business in the United States, who are thinking about buying businesses,
[01:13:55.370 --> 01:13:58.430]  [ALEXURBELS]: who are becoming acquired within the United States.
[01:13:58.650 --> 01:14:07.930]  [ALEXURBELS]: So this could be those adversaries looking for a leg up from the federal government's various departments and breaching these third parties through that way.
[01:14:07.930 --> 01:14:15.110]  [ALEXURBELS]: But it's also somewhat fascinating in that they weren't going after the Department of Commerce itself.
[01:14:15.110 --> 01:14:17.710]  [ALEXURBELS]: They figured out who these third-party vendors were.
[01:14:17.870 --> 01:14:26.570]  [ALEXURBELS]: This beyond trust doesn't sound like it had very robust security controls in place around the...
[01:14:26.570 --> 01:14:35.730]  [ALEXURBELS]: It was probably the key signing keys that were compromised in order to perpetuate this type of attack or to propel it in some way.
[01:14:35.730 --> 01:14:38.370]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, yeah, I think it's interesting.
[01:14:38.530 --> 01:14:39.210]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think it's fascinating.
[01:14:39.210 --> 01:14:52.270]  [ALEXURBELS]: But I don't think it's nearly as damaging as the breach of the entire telecommunications network that we had discussed over the last couple of weeks on the show as well.
[01:14:53.090 --> 01:14:56.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: It does seem like everything is getting breached lately.
[01:14:56.950 --> 01:14:59.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: I have to wonder, where is this all going to go?
[01:15:00.090 --> 01:15:03.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, all our data is in everybody's hands, it seems.
[01:15:03.430 --> 01:15:05.550]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, and it's just normalized.
[01:15:05.790 --> 01:15:14.530]  [ALEXURBELS]: Just these bad practices are just so ordinary, routine, and normal now that at some point they're going to cease to be news stories.
[01:15:15.990 --> 01:15:33.510]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, I think the biggest problem is it's sort of become an industry that itself thrives on broken stuff, like, you know, whether it's crisis response or, you know, people building security appliances and crap.
[01:15:33.770 --> 01:15:38.690]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, all of that is self-perpetuating.
[01:15:40.170 --> 01:15:54.150]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And it's, like, one of those things where if it works too well, they don't really, you know, they make themselves sort of not useful or, I don't know, like, they can't sell more upgrades or they can't sell licensing for something.
[01:15:54.430 --> 01:16:06.970]  [KYLEDROSDK]: All of that, like, it seems is defeating the actual necessity and, like, there needs to be less incentive to profit from broken stuff.
[01:16:09.050 --> 01:16:11.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yep, sounds about right to me.
[01:16:11.650 --> 01:16:12.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, Alex, go ahead.
[01:16:13.110 --> 01:16:30.210]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, I think this also is fascinating at another level, too, because it's just yet again an indication that cybersecurity is extraordinarily difficult when it comes to mitigating risks that arise from third parties.
[01:16:30.710 --> 01:16:44.910]  [ALEXURBELS]: You know, there are just not that many things that you can do as, let's say, a CISO chief information security officer or somebody who's, let's say, you know, managing incidents or within a SOC to affect third parties, right?
[01:16:44.930 --> 01:16:48.110]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, you can require certain representations from them.
[01:16:48.110 --> 01:16:59.250]  [ALEXURBELS]: You can send them really annoying Excel spreadsheets that require them to document all of their security practices and you can take a look at their past audits.
[01:16:59.370 --> 01:17:07.630]  [ALEXURBELS]: But none of this is going to actually protect you proactively from somebody targeting a third-party with which you work as a company.
[01:17:08.150 --> 01:17:14.810]  [ALEXURBELS]: And so third-party risk mitigation is still, I think, one of the most difficult aspects of cybersecurity.
[01:17:15.230 --> 01:17:15.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: Gila, go ahead.
[01:17:16.570 --> 01:17:21.990]  [GILADRAZEN]: I just wanted to share that we did, in fact, get a prediction in the chat, a prediction for 2025.
[01:17:21.990 --> 01:17:23.730]  [GILADRAZEN]: 2025, you don't have to play the noise.
[01:17:24.990 --> 01:17:34.070]  [GILADRAZEN]: But, Rebel said, my prediction for 2025 is that Off The Hook will be at the radio station for their show on WBAI.
[01:17:34.910 --> 01:17:35.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: Fascinating.
[01:17:35.750 --> 01:17:36.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Kyle.
[01:17:37.730 --> 01:17:44.450]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, I was just going to say that that's what Alex was referring to, to me, a sort of cost-benefit thing.
[01:17:44.650 --> 01:18:09.210]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, yeah, the desirability to use these sorts of vendors versus, you know, building that in-house and closely monitoring it with your own sort of internal controls versus just saying this is a great deal and then wondering why you didn't calculate in the cost of trusting someone And when it goes wrong,
[01:18:10.610 --> 01:18:31.070]  [KYLEDROSDK]: you got to sort of, like, indemnify your, I guess, like, especially with information, private stuff, but, like, your systems, you got to value them enough to take care of them beyond the, like, lowest bid.
[01:18:32.970 --> 01:18:33.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: We have a phone call.
[01:18:34.390 --> 01:18:35.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good evening.
[01:18:35.110 --> 01:18:36.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:18:38.150 --> 01:18:38.550]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Hello.
[01:18:39.010 --> 01:18:40.010]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Happy New Year.
[01:18:40.390 --> 01:18:42.770]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Happy Hanukkah to those that celebrate.
[01:18:42.970 --> 01:18:44.130]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Well, Hanukkah, I think.
[01:18:45.770 --> 01:18:46.670]  [GILADRAZEN]: It sure is.
[01:18:48.690 --> 01:18:50.310]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: This is Johnny Fusion
[01:18:51.090 --> 01:18:51.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hey, Johnny.
[01:18:52.070 --> 01:18:52.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: How are you doing?
[01:18:53.190 --> 01:18:55.470]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: I'm doing pretty well.
[01:18:56.030 --> 01:19:01.770]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: I have a germ of an idea for my next article.
[01:19:03.670 --> 01:19:13.090]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: And it has to do with this focus on them that we've had now for, like, 20 years.
[01:19:14.970 --> 01:19:23.690]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: And I don't think STEM, clinical acumen, is enough to make someone a hacker.
[01:19:26.860 --> 01:19:27.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[01:19:27.820 --> 01:19:35.320]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: I think there needs to be cultivation of creativity and out-of-the-box thinking.
[01:19:38.140 --> 01:19:40.780]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: And a more rounded education.
[01:19:41.060 --> 01:19:56.480]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Because, like, a lot of stuff that we're seeing from the tech bros, like, like the dangerous stuff and the toxic stuff, probably could have been mitigated if they had some stronger basis in the humanity.
[01:19:58.200 --> 01:20:04.920]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, but I think the incentive to mechanize or otherwise
[01:20:08.160 --> 01:20:15.420]  [KYLEDROSDK]: commodify innovation like that, it's that you get too many ideas, you know?
[01:20:15.580 --> 01:20:17.840]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Too many dangerous ways of thinking.
[01:20:18.080 --> 01:20:24.640]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Too much that's, you know, just a little more than, you know, what society can handle, you know?
[01:20:24.940 --> 01:20:36.680]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It's it's a catch-22, but sort of contained in some ways the that spirit in a lot of these institutions.
[01:20:36.960 --> 01:20:44.960]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, you look at education, I think for a while talking about hacking had to be sanitized.
[01:20:45.100 --> 01:20:48.560]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It had to be like, you know, we're doing, we're going to use another word for that.
[01:20:48.800 --> 01:20:50.400]  [KYLEDROSDK]: But it's, or even STEM.
[01:20:50.740 --> 01:20:54.760]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, it's a very formalized way that makes it safe.
[01:20:55.500 --> 01:21:23.780]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And the relative safety, I think, of the spirit you're trying to articulate is it challenges some of those institutions and whether be it a company, be it a school or whatever environment groups of people are operating and taking ideas and running with them and trying new things.
[01:21:24.120 --> 01:21:28.660]  [KYLEDROSDK]: There has to be some limitations in the way they're talked about.
[01:21:28.740 --> 01:21:29.800]  [KYLEDROSDK]: But I agree with you that
[01:21:33.000 --> 01:21:56.860]  [KYLEDROSDK]: the places where that's occurring themselves, I think, have evolution to be challenging themselves, I think, a bit more to embrace what you're talking about or at least finding ways of not making it so bland because there has to be an edge to it.
[01:21:56.980 --> 01:21:58.220]  [KYLEDROSDK]: There has to be some risk.
[01:21:58.400 --> 01:22:05.380]  [KYLEDROSDK]: There has to be when you're pushing bounds and that is that play, that innovation.
[01:22:05.600 --> 01:22:30.040]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You take risks when you play, when any actor or someone that performs or does something, like you said, in the humanities, that itself is when it's so mechanized in a business environment where it's calculated, the spirit, you sort of soften the edge.
[01:22:30.260 --> 01:22:44.120]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It's not as daring and you get less ideas, less stuff that challenges the broader construction or framework we're all living in.
[01:22:44.320 --> 01:22:44.760]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I don't know.
[01:22:44.920 --> 01:22:46.940]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm just talking off the top of my head though.
[01:22:49.160 --> 01:22:54.520]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Yeah, so, like, I'm going back to my early college education.
[01:22:55.760 --> 01:22:56.220]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Right?
[01:22:56.360 --> 01:23:11.860]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Before I ended up in tech school, I was going to, like, a local junior college and I went to take programming courses even though I've been programming since I was six years old, but there were these prerequisites for these bonehead computer classes.
[01:23:12.760 --> 01:23:16.180]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: And it became really clear they weren't teaching the right stuff.
[01:23:16.620 --> 01:23:28.560]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Like, there was this one class, CS-17, supposedly computer logic, but what it really was, was COBOL flowcharting.
[01:23:29.760 --> 01:23:45.960]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: and the teacher sometimes would rail against hackers, but they're not real programmers, they're just hackers, because they didn't do this structured, technical, correct way.
[01:23:46.460 --> 01:23:57.180]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: You know, and I'm like, well, you know, it's kind of like the difference between classical music and improvisational jazz.
[01:23:58.560 --> 01:23:58.940]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: right?
[01:23:59.420 --> 01:24:06.240]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Where Code Monkeys are like the classical musicians, very rules-based, never coloring outside the lines.
[01:24:07.180 --> 01:24:19.640]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: And then you got artists like Coltrane, who is still making great music, but the rules don't bound him.
[01:24:19.980 --> 01:24:21.860]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: The old rules, right?
[01:24:22.180 --> 01:24:33.600]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: You can't break it too much, because then it would be noise instead of music, but it becomes great art and it's the difference if you want to be a code monkey or you want to be a code poet.
[01:24:34.020 --> 01:24:40.760]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: You know, because part of the hacker ethic is that art and beauty can be made with computers.
[01:24:41.160 --> 01:25:03.780]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Even the first programmer in the world, Ada Lovelace, you know, had the soul of a poet, and she was forced to learn sciences, and she said, well, what about poetical science, and she imagined great things that, creative things that Babbage's analytical engine could do someday,
[01:25:03.900 --> 01:25:14.380]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: like compose music and stuff, and we're just kind getting there with generative AI, you know, almost 200 years later.
[01:25:16.200 --> 01:25:29.380]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: But, I just find that focusing on tech stifles creativity and creative thinking, and you've got to be able to bend the rules.
[01:25:29.660 --> 01:25:53.580]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Like, with computer programming, you can't break the rules, or your code won't compile, but you can find these emergent behaviors, and, you know, these little undocumented features, and stuff like that, you know, and I miss kids having this spirit of exploration,
[01:25:53.860 --> 01:26:02.800]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: and the technical themes, you know, and just trying things, you know, breaking things, then unbreaking them.
[01:26:02.800 --> 01:26:06.420]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: I mean, that's what hackers have done since eternity.
[01:26:06.840 --> 01:26:12.640]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Try something, it breaks, and then you fix it.
[01:26:26.850 --> 01:26:27.410]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yes?
[01:26:31.500 --> 01:26:32.540]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Everyone still there?
[01:26:32.700 --> 01:26:33.140]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: What happened?
[01:26:34.520 --> 01:26:36.240]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, we heard you.
[01:26:41.300 --> 01:26:47.320]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: You know, I'm just trying to find, you know, and I don't know.
[01:26:47.560 --> 01:26:49.620]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: You know me, I'm so anti-capitalist.
[01:26:49.740 --> 01:27:03.560]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Everything is so oriented towards being monetized, making money, and having stuff that you can make a profit off of instead of just doing shit for fun just to see if you can do it.
[01:27:07.420 --> 01:27:09.930]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I mean, it's kind of difficult.
[01:27:09.930 --> 01:27:15.200]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I think, like, we do live in that system to some degree, and to upend it.
[01:27:15.510 --> 01:27:23.120]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I've had a lot of this surface lately, but to upend it means we can't make it work in a way that serves people.
[01:27:23.320 --> 01:27:34.500]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I think if that's what's in front of us, taking apart something that is incredibly powerful and could actually be directed, we're people a bit more organized and intentional about it.
[01:27:34.670 --> 01:27:41.440]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Just kind of, I just, I'm so hopeful that we can come through with some of that.
[01:27:41.520 --> 01:27:43.320]  [KYLEDROSDK]: That's why I speak about regulatory stuff.
[01:27:43.480 --> 01:27:51.580]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I mean, it's maybe my naivete, but that's how, that was my understanding of how all of this ever worked.
[01:27:51.820 --> 01:28:08.040]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Did I get an education in how corruption or how all the other variables in all of it affect the sort of altruism I'd like to think or the ideal that we're capable of a society in the midst of capitalism?
[01:28:08.550 --> 01:28:16.360]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And yeah, I'm as, I have as much sort of difficulty with it.
[01:28:17.710 --> 01:28:27.900]  [KYLEDROSDK]: But I can't, I just can't get on this thing of like, we must destroy and dismantle and like, you know, burn it all down.
[01:28:28.050 --> 01:28:37.620]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, it just is not to me how you improve an advanced society.
[01:28:38.090 --> 01:28:49.920]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I think it, like, by becoming a developed society or a developing society to like, get a do-over for being an advanced society, I just, it doesn't really make sense.
[01:28:50.250 --> 01:29:08.820]  [KYLEDROSDK]: If we are at that level, we should use what tools of this society and our brains and stop being tricked like, by the hustle or the traps of capitalism or how people are exploiting its openness.
[01:29:09.860 --> 01:29:13.660]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I think that's even like something that state actors do.
[01:29:13.900 --> 01:29:21.400]  [KYLEDROSDK]: They dump money into our country and use it exactly the way it's intended, but to their ends.
[01:29:22.440 --> 01:29:38.920]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And like, that's why we're, and of course, like, we're this massive tax haven and somehow we're wondering why there's corruption abound and why other places do it too.
[01:29:39.210 --> 01:29:48.520]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, if we can't get around that ourselves and clean house, why should anyone else expect to play by those rules?
[01:29:48.660 --> 01:29:59.040]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, rules, that goes for conquest, that goes for, you know, the competitiveness in, you know, sectors that are monopolies.
[01:29:59.210 --> 01:30:09.670]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We've talked about that in tech, but there's many other industries that sort of profit off of not functioning well.
[01:30:09.670 --> 01:30:11.380]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And we have to fix those things.
[01:30:11.550 --> 01:30:14.590]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And we can't let corruption prevent us fixing those things.
[01:30:14.710 --> 01:30:16.920]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We can't take our focus away from that.
[01:30:17.580 --> 01:30:18.780]  [KYLEDROSDK]: That's my attitude.
[01:30:19.050 --> 01:30:24.240]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I call it stupid, call it, you know, a shill for the capitalist system.
[01:30:24.240 --> 01:30:27.400]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, I mean, like, I'm not in college anymore.
[01:30:28.040 --> 01:30:33.710]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm old enough to understand where and what this is.
[01:30:34.120 --> 01:30:49.630]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So, yeah, you can have your, like, disagreements with different things, but I'm being real about what is all around us when we go off the air and is really not going anywhere, as upset as we are about it.
[01:30:54.240 --> 01:31:01.780]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: said that once upon a time, the divine right of kings was seen as inviolable and forever.
[01:31:02.050 --> 01:31:03.480]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: And that went away.
[01:31:04.090 --> 01:31:09.880]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Capitalism is man-made and anything man-made can be destroyed by man.
[01:31:11.740 --> 01:31:15.300]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: And the thing is, though, capitalism is a rigged game.
[01:31:15.590 --> 01:31:19.550]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: It really only benefits those at the top.
[01:31:19.860 --> 01:31:27.900]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: And it needs an oppressed underclass to function because it's hierarchical.
[01:31:28.860 --> 01:31:28.980]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Right?
[01:31:29.500 --> 01:31:32.340]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: We have power generated at the top.
[01:31:32.670 --> 01:31:34.920]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: Wealth goes upwards.
[01:31:37.000 --> 01:31:44.590]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: You know, people's labor are used to generate profit for those above them.
[01:31:46.760 --> 01:32:07.200]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: And while I do believe we do need to tear it down, I don't think it so much destructive as transformative where we build a system that that's based on equity and justice.
[01:32:08.200 --> 01:32:14.840]  [JOHNNYFUSN]: You know, these are things that would benefit everyone instead of the few at the top.
[01:32:15.400 --> 01:32:25.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, Johnny, I suggest you put all this in writing because you make some compelling points and it's certainly going to spark all kinds of discussion and debate and that's what it's all about.
[01:32:25.440 --> 01:32:28.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: So I hope we see some more submissions from you
[01:32:50.980 --> 01:33:18.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: and we'll have the phone line open just for a little while longer because it's been rough last couple of weeks all the holidays and things and now another year God knows what is ahead of us and I hear the merry ring of the telephone as somebody else is calling us so let me say good evening you're on Off The Hook Overtime go ahead Hi,
[01:33:19.050 --> 01:33:20.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: my name is Oliver.
[01:33:20.550 --> 01:33:28.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: And today, we went to a payphone in Millbrook, New York.
[01:33:29.090 --> 01:33:38.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we tried it, but it didn't work because the coin slot was jammed.
[01:33:40.440 --> 01:33:41.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: I know what you mean.
[01:33:42.820 --> 01:33:43.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:33:44.400 --> 01:33:45.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: What the hell was that?
[01:33:48.400 --> 01:33:50.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: Alex, that wasn't one of yours, right?
[01:33:52.480 --> 01:33:54.240]  [ALEXURBELS]: No, that was not one of mine.
[01:33:54.420 --> 01:33:59.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, so we have genuine kids calling us now with their payphone odysseys.
[01:33:59.840 --> 01:34:00.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, the more the merrier.
[01:34:01.240 --> 01:34:01.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: Sure.
[01:34:02.210 --> 01:34:03.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: Why didn't the payphone work?
[01:34:04.980 --> 01:34:06.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're gonna have to transcribe that.
[01:34:06.580 --> 01:34:08.240]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Something about the coin slot.
[01:34:08.300 --> 01:34:08.960]  [KYLEDROSDK]: The coin slot, yeah.
[01:34:09.130 --> 01:34:10.080]  [GILADRAZEN]: The coin slot was jammed.
[01:34:10.280 --> 01:34:10.980]  [GILADRAZEN]: Is that what it was?
[01:34:11.050 --> 01:34:11.880]  [KYLEDROSDK]: The coin slot was jammed.
[01:34:12.040 --> 01:34:12.550]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Okay, jammed.
[01:34:12.590 --> 01:34:13.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: And where did they say they were?
[01:34:13.630 --> 01:34:14.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: Somewhere in New York?
[01:34:15.300 --> 01:34:18.660]  [GILADRAZEN]: It sounded like New Buck, New York, but I don't know if that's a place.
[01:34:18.840 --> 01:34:19.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: Is it Millbrook?
[01:34:19.380 --> 01:34:21.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, run a trace on New Buck, New York.
[01:34:21.280 --> 01:34:22.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right, we got a team on it.
[01:34:23.160 --> 01:34:24.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: 802-321-4225.
[01:34:26.040 --> 01:34:26.960]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Kid better run.
[01:34:27.120 --> 01:34:27.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, wow.
[01:34:28.540 --> 01:34:30.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: That was so unexpected, huh?
[01:34:32.300 --> 01:34:32.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:34:32.660 --> 01:34:32.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:34:33.550 --> 01:34:34.300]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'll take it.
[01:34:34.400 --> 01:34:37.590]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We haven't had a good prank from the youths.
[01:34:37.750 --> 01:34:38.860]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We got another call, though.
[01:34:38.960 --> 01:34:40.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: And maybe it's another one of those pranks.
[01:34:40.400 --> 01:34:40.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good evening.
[01:34:40.940 --> 01:34:42.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:34:42.520 --> 01:34:42.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead.
[01:34:44.660 --> 01:34:45.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, hello?
[01:34:45.520 --> 01:34:46.440]  You're welcome, New York.
[01:34:47.660 --> 01:34:48.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello?
[01:34:48.020 --> 01:34:50.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, turn on your radio or computer or whatever it is.
[01:34:53.380 --> 01:34:55.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I have a question.
[01:34:55.920 --> 01:34:56.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, go ahead.
[01:34:57.780 --> 01:35:02.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've been reading the magazine since, I think, 1984-85.
[01:35:03.700 --> 01:35:07.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm worried, is it in a good financial state?
[01:35:08.220 --> 01:35:08.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's a...
[01:35:08.960 --> 01:35:09.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you see it in the book?
[01:35:10.060 --> 01:35:10.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's in the bookstores.
[01:35:11.040 --> 01:35:14.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: In fact, I was just in a bookstore the other day and made sure to hunt it down.
[01:35:15.380 --> 01:35:19.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not sure what bookstore you're looking in, but it should be in every Barnes & Noble and a bunch of other chains as well.
[01:35:20.080 --> 01:35:23.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's just, it might be harder to find the bookstore than the magazine at this point.
[01:35:25.210 --> 01:35:28.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, see, I'm phoning from Canada.
[01:35:29.450 --> 01:35:33.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, you had chapters, I think, is your book chain up there?
[01:35:35.300 --> 01:35:35.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[01:35:36.240 --> 01:35:37.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: Are they still around?
[01:35:41.580 --> 01:35:43.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so.
[01:35:45.590 --> 01:35:48.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: The big chains have basically disappeared.
[01:35:48.240 --> 01:35:50.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a few independent ones.
[01:35:50.200 --> 01:35:56.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you know, we're happy to supply independent bookstores if, you know, they want to get the magazine.
[01:35:56.940 --> 01:35:58.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's, you know, it's gotten harder.
[01:35:58.360 --> 01:36:00.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's always been hard on publishers.
[01:36:00.340 --> 01:36:07.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: But as to your question, you know, it really depends on how readers respond.
[01:36:07.240 --> 01:36:12.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: If people subscribe, if people go to the bookstore, if people go to the conference, all of that helps us.
[01:36:12.820 --> 01:36:13.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: All that helps us.
[01:36:13.780 --> 01:36:20.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: And as you can see, we try hard to, you know, to stay active and relevant and just, you know, solvent.
[01:36:21.050 --> 01:36:23.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it's worked up until now.
[01:36:23.170 --> 01:36:24.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work.
[01:36:24.620 --> 01:36:25.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: We doubled down on the conference.
[01:36:26.280 --> 01:36:28.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're doing conferences every year now.
[01:36:28.780 --> 01:36:44.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I'm hoping that that will make things grow and build up and just be a, you know, a force, an annual force of independent thinking, technology, education, all kinds of really positive things.
[01:36:44.420 --> 01:36:46.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because I think the community really, really needs that.
[01:36:46.590 --> 01:36:51.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: The support that we have gotten every time, you know, we're in public someplace is astounding and amazing.
[01:36:52.500 --> 01:36:56.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: So I, you know, I always feel like there are people looking out for us.
[01:36:57.820 --> 01:37:00.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: And hopefully that will continue.
[01:37:00.200 --> 01:37:01.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: Things can always change.
[01:37:01.460 --> 01:37:01.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: We know that.
[01:37:02.000 --> 01:37:05.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: But with the support of readers, I think we'll be fine.
[01:37:05.660 --> 01:37:06.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: Anything you want to add to that, Kyle?
[01:37:07.630 --> 01:37:09.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well... Yeah, go ahead.
[01:37:10.980 --> 01:37:15.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, can I ask, who do I talk to at the bookstore to get the...
[01:37:16.380 --> 01:37:20.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: Definitely talk to the... whoever's in charge of magazine supply.
[01:37:21.050 --> 01:37:22.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: Could be the manager, could be somebody else.
[01:37:23.500 --> 01:37:26.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: And you just ask them, how do you get your magazines?
[01:37:26.320 --> 01:37:30.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: If it's through a distributor, you can forward that information to us.
[01:37:30.480 --> 01:37:37.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: And then we can contact that distributor, make sure that they're getting magazines from us, and that they're going to that particular store.
[01:37:37.590 --> 01:37:41.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: And to do that, you can write to oth@2600.com.
[01:37:41.630 --> 01:37:44.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that'll get to us, and we can forward it that way.
[01:37:44.440 --> 01:37:49.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that goes for anybody that wants to get magazines in their local stores.
[01:37:49.940 --> 01:37:51.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now, it's harder overseas.
[01:37:51.550 --> 01:37:56.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: We used to be in a lot of British bookstores, but they have made it so incredibly hard.
[01:37:57.740 --> 01:38:01.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: And last time we even looked into that, we were threatened with a lawsuit.
[01:38:01.780 --> 01:38:06.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: If we had an article that somehow rubbed somebody the wrong way, we'd be liable.
[01:38:07.120 --> 01:38:16.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it just, it was, you know, considering the literal pennies you make per copy sold, it just wasn't worth the trouble and the risk.
[01:38:16.740 --> 01:38:19.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: So in those particular cases, we asked people to just subscribe.
[01:38:19.960 --> 01:38:27.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: And now that we're digital, people, you know, you can subscribe anywhere in the world and get the magazine sent to you instantly.
[01:38:27.710 --> 01:38:29.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I'll let you in on a secret.
[01:38:30.580 --> 01:38:40.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: Tomorrow, I believe it's tomorrow, we're going to be unveiling some new pricing deals involving digital publications and analog publications as well.
[01:38:40.080 --> 01:38:42.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: So it's what people have been asking for.
[01:38:42.540 --> 01:38:45.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we're going to hopefully provide that.
[01:38:45.590 --> 01:38:46.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now, Kyle, did you have something to add?
[01:38:46.980 --> 01:38:49.980]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, just we're looking at as many different things that work.
[01:38:50.170 --> 01:39:11.210]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We've done this, at a, as like a constant basis, basically re-evaluating, seeing what's working because things have been changing so much with retail distribution, as well as the digitization of publications and business models around that and keeping people getting things correct,
[01:39:11.860 --> 01:39:15.590]  [KYLEDROSDK]: having it look and appear like it's having to reinvent things and start over.
[01:39:15.740 --> 01:39:25.120]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You just end up not having a huge amount of time to even think about marketing and, you know, working on which retailers are opening up and doing better or worse.
[01:39:25.280 --> 01:39:29.740]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So it's, it's, um, the, the travails of any independent publisher.
[01:39:30.000 --> 01:39:31.780]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So we're definitely responsive.
[01:39:31.940 --> 01:39:39.920]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We take everything that people say to heart and, um, good ideas, things to try out things that have worked for other people.
[01:39:40.250 --> 01:39:46.800]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Um, if you know, yeah, I mean, just basic stuff, uh, costs, uh, materials.
[01:39:47.380 --> 01:39:50.020]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Um, it, it, they're always a concern.
[01:39:50.520 --> 01:39:52.660]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So, uh, we, we follow all that stuff.
[01:39:52.940 --> 01:39:54.050]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Um, yeah.
[01:39:54.200 --> 01:39:55.960]  [KYLEDROSDK]: If you have a paper guy, let us know.
[01:39:56.500 --> 01:39:56.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:39:57.320 --> 01:39:59.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: I was getting a bit worried.
[01:39:59.980 --> 01:40:02.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Like I think maybe I'm overreacting.
[01:40:03.360 --> 01:40:10.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, well, you know, we, we all worry about, uh, you know, what's ahead and there are always challenges that come our way and we never can expect them.
[01:40:10.750 --> 01:40:16.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: Like last summer, for instance, you know, we discovered that our issues were sitting in a warehouse for a month without being delivered.
[01:40:16.670 --> 01:40:24.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that resulted in us having to change our whole schedule for the next year to allow those issues to be on the newsstands for a decent amount of time.
[01:40:24.580 --> 01:40:26.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: We got nothing from that.
[01:40:26.280 --> 01:40:27.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: We got no compensation or anything.
[01:40:28.050 --> 01:40:31.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: It always is the publisher that winds up paying for any screw ups.
[01:40:31.750 --> 01:40:36.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it's just, uh, you know, it's, it's an unreasonable, but almost funny situation sometimes.
[01:40:36.460 --> 01:40:36.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:40:37.240 --> 01:40:41.800]  [KYLEDROSDK]: The irregularities that have like cascading effects like that, people don't really think about it.
[01:40:41.900 --> 01:40:53.980]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And like, you get the news about something happening and it's like, you have to make that calculation and then make it work for your business model, whether that's compacting a production schedule because something was delayed or dealing with, um, you know,
[01:40:54.120 --> 01:41:01.050]  [KYLEDROSDK]: issues that have been sitting or, you know, it's just, it's itself something that, um, can take a toll.
[01:41:01.200 --> 01:41:10.880]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I actually really, really appreciate your concern because we try to tell people everything that we can about what we're facing or what we think is on the horizon.
[01:41:11.210 --> 01:41:19.250]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And that, you know, we, we'd like input when we, when we have something to say and, um, it can be a lot of hard work.
[01:41:19.340 --> 01:41:37.400]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I, I like to think that people do, like you say, look out for us, or at least think of us, um, doing a lot of that work because it can be, it can be tough to, to stay motivated and, and have it in the tank, so to speak, or just be like charged up for the,
[01:41:37.550 --> 01:41:38.800]  [KYLEDROSDK]: for the, for the work of it.
[01:41:38.940 --> 01:41:39.980]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So thanks for the sentiment.
[01:41:40.160 --> 01:41:40.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:41:40.300 --> 01:41:46.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: It can be overwhelming, even depressing at times, but then the next day somebody buys a full set or a lifetime subscription and we feel good again.
[01:41:47.040 --> 01:41:49.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: So hopefully there are enough people out there that will continue doing that.
[01:41:50.120 --> 01:41:54.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we're going to have, uh, tickets for our conference going on sale in the next couple of weeks as well.
[01:41:54.860 --> 01:42:02.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, you know, a strong showing there allows us to do the conference and to keep the magazine going and to expand, do more things.
[01:42:02.240 --> 01:42:03.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: We want to do more things.
[01:42:03.500 --> 01:42:07.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: We want to play with more technology and, and report on more things and be in more places.
[01:42:07.980 --> 01:42:10.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: So it really depends on, on the support we get.
[01:42:11.000 --> 01:42:11.120]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[01:42:11.210 --> 01:42:22.670]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We've been organizing a lot of stuff and making room for new, new stuff and just, uh, you know, cleaning and, and, uh, being sort of ready to, um, to embrace some of that stuff.
[01:42:22.820 --> 01:42:24.820]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So please, uh, thanks for the support.
[01:42:26.380 --> 01:42:29.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I am happy that hope for me every year.
[01:42:29.640 --> 01:42:31.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I think that's going to be fun.
[01:42:31.320 --> 01:42:44.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think that's going to make it a lot easier to do the conference because the problem, you know, every two, we did every two years because there was so much work at the hotel in Manhattan, but now that it's every year, we don't have to reinvent how to do a conference every two years because,
[01:42:44.750 --> 01:42:47.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: you know, we'd have to reconnect with people, you know, build a new site.
[01:42:47.780 --> 01:42:52.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: And if it's just an ongoing process, then it becomes a bit more streamlined.
[01:42:52.250 --> 01:42:56.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: And St. John's is, is a much better place as far as having things work smoothly.
[01:42:56.480 --> 01:42:58.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: We have, uh, so much more support there.
[01:42:58.740 --> 01:43:00.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: So that's what we're looking forward to.
[01:43:00.780 --> 01:43:02.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: Can I ask what, what part of Canada are you calling from?
[01:43:04.240 --> 01:43:05.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's, uh, Richmond, BC.
[01:43:06.250 --> 01:43:09.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just, uh, South District of Vancouver.
[01:43:10.080 --> 01:43:10.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, great.
[01:43:10.960 --> 01:43:11.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:43:11.620 --> 01:43:12.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: Beautiful country there.
[01:43:13.880 --> 01:43:14.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[01:43:15.160 --> 01:43:18.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think we actually met at one time in New York City.
[01:43:18.480 --> 01:43:18.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, yeah?
[01:43:19.130 --> 01:43:21.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, at the end of, uh, HOPe.
[01:43:21.500 --> 01:43:21.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh-huh.
[01:43:23.780 --> 01:43:26.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, you meet so many people, I don't expect you to remember.
[01:43:27.120 --> 01:43:31.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I don't even know which HOPE it was, so, yeah, it all merges together sometimes.
[01:43:32.020 --> 01:43:33.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, HOPE 10, I think.
[01:43:33.820 --> 01:43:34.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, no.
[01:43:34.440 --> 01:43:35.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: HOPE X.
[01:43:35.200 --> 01:43:36.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, that'd be HOPE X.
[01:43:36.200 --> 01:43:36.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: 11.
[01:43:36.860 --> 01:43:38.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, 11, The Eleventh HOPE.
[01:43:38.120 --> 01:43:38.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: HOPE 11, I think.
[01:43:39.380 --> 01:43:41.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: I feel like I'm being tested on my...
[01:43:42.220 --> 01:43:42.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:43:43.200 --> 01:43:43.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: Excellent.
[01:43:44.200 --> 01:43:48.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, hopefully we'll see you at, at HOPE 16, I believe is what this one is called.
[01:43:48.380 --> 01:43:50.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, yeah, hopefully, hopefully.
[01:43:50.820 --> 01:43:56.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right, and, you know, we will also have, um, uh, remote, uh, capabilities too, in case you can't, so, uh, we have that as well.
[01:43:57.300 --> 01:44:01.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, well, I'll go to the virtual HOPEs, if I'm not there physically.
[01:44:02.050 --> 01:44:03.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, yeah, whatever works.
[01:44:05.000 --> 01:44:07.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right, thank you so much for your call, and thanks for your support.
[01:44:07.820 --> 01:44:08.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[01:44:08.940 --> 01:44:10.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, you have a good New Year.
[01:44:10.540 --> 01:44:10.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: You too.
[01:44:11.000 --> 01:44:11.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: Take care.
[01:44:11.540 --> 01:44:11.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: Bye-bye.
[01:44:12.940 --> 01:44:14.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, a nice, nice call there.
[01:44:14.860 --> 01:44:16.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm glad, uh, people are asking questions.
[01:44:16.320 --> 01:44:16.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's important.
[01:44:17.340 --> 01:44:21.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we have room for maybe one more call, 802-321-4225.
[01:44:22.170 --> 01:44:24.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: Anyone else have anything they would like to add?
[01:44:25.460 --> 01:44:26.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: Skype people.
[01:44:28.120 --> 01:44:28.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: No?
[01:44:28.820 --> 01:44:29.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: Everybody?
[01:44:29.250 --> 01:44:42.200]  [ROBVINCENT]: It is just, it is exciting stuff, and I'm seeing a lot of, uh, posting around, you know, a lot of New Year's posts, but, uh, I think, by and large, and I don't know if I was expecting this, um, especially given everything that's going on, but by and large,
[01:44:42.250 --> 01:44:46.380]  [ROBVINCENT]: I'm seeing a lot of, sort of, optimistic New Year's posts.
[01:44:46.660 --> 01:44:50.080]  [ROBVINCENT]: Like, despite everything, it feels like it may, it may be a good year.
[01:44:50.080 --> 01:44:51.900]  [ROBVINCENT]: And, of course, it's up to all of us to make it that way.
[01:44:52.360 --> 01:44:56.960]  [ROBVINCENT]: But, uh, you know, I, I think I was expecting to be more generally depressed than I am right now.
[01:44:58.000 --> 01:45:05.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: Look, there's always, there's always time to be depressed, but, you know, the time to, um, be obstinate and fight back and do your own thing and, and say, what are you going to do about it?
[01:45:06.360 --> 01:45:10.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, let's at least give that a try, and I, I kind of feel like, you know, that's what we should do.
[01:45:11.620 --> 01:45:12.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: We'll see.
[01:45:12.300 --> 01:45:12.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: We'll see.
[01:45:13.200 --> 01:45:13.920]  [KYLEDROSDK]: There's a phone call.
[01:45:14.000 --> 01:45:14.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's a phone call.
[01:45:14.710 --> 01:45:17.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, let's take the, uh, what probably will be the last phone call of the night.
[01:45:17.590 --> 01:45:17.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good evening.
[01:45:18.300 --> 01:45:19.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:45:20.860 --> 01:45:21.660]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Hello, Governor.
[01:45:22.400 --> 01:45:25.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's, uh, it's Zap from London, if I am not mistaken.
[01:45:25.520 --> 01:45:26.020]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Hell yeah.
[01:45:27.160 --> 01:45:27.960]  [ZAP_LONDON]: You're correct.
[01:45:28.130 --> 01:45:28.520]  [ZAP_LONDON]: I am correct.
[01:45:28.840 --> 01:45:29.500]  [ZAP_LONDON]: I'll ring in and say hello.
[01:45:29.700 --> 01:45:32.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, Happy New Year to you over there in, uh, in the UK.
[01:45:33.260 --> 01:45:34.020]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Thanks for doing it.
[01:45:34.020 --> 01:45:36.170]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Yeah, Happy New Year to everyone and everyone in the chat.
[01:45:37.140 --> 01:45:39.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, uh, how, how did things go over there?
[01:45:40.500 --> 01:45:42.020]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Uh, for me, it was a quiet one.
[01:45:42.440 --> 01:45:45.800]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Um, but yeah, it went okay, um, as far as I know.
[01:45:46.170 --> 01:45:46.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Quiet is good.
[01:45:47.080 --> 01:45:49.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: Quiet can be good sometimes, you know.
[01:45:49.020 --> 01:45:50.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: I, I, I'm not a big fan of crowds.
[01:45:52.420 --> 01:45:52.820]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Yeah.
[01:45:53.320 --> 01:45:54.090]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Neither am I.
[01:45:54.700 --> 01:45:58.080]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Uh, but I'm just thinking the last call is from Canada.
[01:45:58.420 --> 01:46:00.160]  [ZAP_LONDON]: There's no meetings in Canada, is there?
[01:46:00.280 --> 01:46:01.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know what's going on with that.
[01:46:01.630 --> 01:46:02.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: I really don't.
[01:46:02.280 --> 01:46:03.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's, it's such a weird thing.
[01:46:03.550 --> 01:46:05.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: We used to have so many 2600 meetings in Canada.
[01:46:05.880 --> 01:46:08.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: They were in Ottawa and Toronto and Vancouver.
[01:46:08.780 --> 01:46:11.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think we even had one in St. John's, uh, Newfoundland at one point.
[01:46:12.500 --> 01:46:15.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, uh, you know, ever since COVID, they haven't come back.
[01:46:16.000 --> 01:46:25.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: What we've done is we've required meetings to contact us, you know, at, uh, meetings at 2600.com, uh, email us, say that you've started meetings up again, first Friday of the month.
[01:46:26.120 --> 01:46:32.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, the usual thing and not one that actually there was one and it petered out.
[01:46:32.520 --> 01:46:34.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, but, uh, you know, I'm talking Winnipeg.
[01:46:34.900 --> 01:46:40.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm talking Edmonton, uh, Montreal, Quebec city, all these places have hackers.
[01:46:41.130 --> 01:46:41.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm sure they do.
[01:46:41.900 --> 01:46:42.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Unless there was a hacker purge.
[01:46:42.960 --> 01:46:48.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not aware of, uh, we really, really, really would like to see meetings in Canada.
[01:46:48.380 --> 01:46:49.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know what's going on.
[01:46:49.540 --> 01:46:51.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: We, we get so many hope attendees from Canada.
[01:46:51.840 --> 01:46:53.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, you know what, what it could be.
[01:46:53.820 --> 01:46:57.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, and Zap, you know something about this, uh, organizing a meeting.
[01:46:57.500 --> 01:46:59.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: It takes determination.
[01:46:59.080 --> 01:47:04.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: It takes, uh, just basically saying, I'm going to do this and then letting people know that you did it.
[01:47:05.000 --> 01:47:08.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: But other than that, it's not a whole lot of work or responsibility.
[01:47:09.260 --> 01:47:16.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's just basically being consistent and friendly and, you know, open to more people showing up and, and, you know, getting the word out.
[01:47:16.820 --> 01:47:17.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: Did I cover all bases?
[01:47:19.580 --> 01:47:20.550]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Yeah, I believe so.
[01:47:20.740 --> 01:47:23.780]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Hopefully the last caller will get the hint to start a meeting.
[01:47:23.980 --> 01:47:25.440]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Please start one up in Canada.
[01:47:25.840 --> 01:47:41.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, it's not one particular person's responsibility, but I, I hope that somebody in Canada that, that, uh, you know, feels, uh, you know, uh, uh, the desire to do this or the frustration of not having meetings around, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's really not that difficult.
[01:47:41.160 --> 01:47:44.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: We have the guidelines on our website, 2600.com/meetings.
[01:47:45.130 --> 01:47:47.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, it's, it's really simple to do.
[01:47:47.280 --> 01:47:51.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: You don't have to lead a meeting or, you know, there's no agenda.
[01:47:51.540 --> 01:47:54.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: Some meetings do it differently, but for the most part, it's like a gathering.
[01:47:55.130 --> 01:47:57.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's like a gathering in a food court once a month.
[01:47:57.420 --> 01:48:04.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: And you meet people that are into technology and, uh, you, you, you, you get to, you get to have more friends than you thought you had.
[01:48:06.120 --> 01:48:09.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: And basically we try to have them in, uh, in public spaces.
[01:48:09.300 --> 01:48:12.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: So they're easy to get to, and also easy to leave when you want to leave.
[01:48:13.180 --> 01:48:15.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: And cities tend to be the best place for this.
[01:48:15.590 --> 01:48:25.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, I, I can't tell you the changes in the hacker community that have occurred because of the meetings in London, in Manchester, in New York, in all of these various places.
[01:48:25.860 --> 01:48:33.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: And if you look at our, our meeting list, which is up on the, on the site, you see that we have meetings all over the world in, in some far flung places.
[01:48:33.620 --> 01:48:36.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, um, it's, it's, it's definitely doable.
[01:48:36.750 --> 01:48:37.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's definitely doable.
[01:48:39.380 --> 01:48:40.360]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Yeah, definitely.
[01:48:40.630 --> 01:48:46.620]  [ZAP_LONDON]: And, uh, I've made some lifelong friends, some really good friends from people I've met at the meetings that I'm still in touch with.
[01:48:46.620 --> 01:48:55.960]  [ZAP_LONDON]: So, yeah, going to a meeting is beneficial and it's sort of the first step to breaking maybe into info security, if you want to get into that kind of line of work.
[01:48:56.400 --> 01:48:57.780]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Uh, so it's really good.
[01:48:57.860 --> 01:49:02.980]  [ZAP_LONDON]: But one of the main reasons I'm phoning tonight is to tell you about the UK meetings that are happening this Friday.
[01:49:03.240 --> 01:49:03.860]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Please do.
[01:49:04.500 --> 01:49:05.920]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Um, anything.
[01:49:06.240 --> 01:49:11.460]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Manchester are having their meeting on Friday and Bournemouth are having their meeting on Friday.
[01:49:12.200 --> 01:49:13.880]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Cheltenham haven't got back to me.
[01:49:14.630 --> 01:49:24.210]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Unfortunately, London are postponing for a week and the new meeting, Birmingham, I'd like to give a shout out to Hero, who's doing a lot of hard work trying to get these meeting off the ground.
[01:49:24.420 --> 01:49:26.210]  [ZAP_LONDON]: He's also having it on the 10th.
[01:49:26.750 --> 01:49:27.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:49:27.360 --> 01:49:32.900]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Other news is, I'm, I'm heard that there's going to be finally a meeting in Wales.
[01:49:32.900 --> 01:49:37.900]  [ZAP_LONDON]: I just need to, uh, gently push the person who said they would, uh, start the meeting up.
[01:49:43.880 --> 01:49:45.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm here so that I can look at our list.
[01:49:45.980 --> 01:49:50.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I think at least one of those, uh, was, uh...
[01:49:50.250 --> 01:49:51.240]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Birmingham isn't listed.
[01:49:51.660 --> 01:49:51.860]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Yeah.
[01:49:51.860 --> 01:50:00.280]  [ZAP_LONDON]: They did write in, and they got a, I don't know if it was an automatic response or a response from someone, and there was some kind of issue why they couldn't get listed.
[01:50:01.280 --> 01:50:07.550]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Uh, and I told the guy not to take it to heart, and maybe I'll write in and put the meeting up, um, myself.
[01:50:08.900 --> 01:50:13.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, if we know what the issue was, uh, you know, I'd like to know what, what that is.
[01:50:13.040 --> 01:50:17.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, we have, we have Burmuth, we have Cheltenham, London, Manchester, and Glasgow in Scotland.
[01:50:18.960 --> 01:50:19.360]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Yeah.
[01:50:19.540 --> 01:50:20.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's everything for the UK.
[01:50:20.780 --> 01:50:24.520]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Um, that's all the meetings that I know of.
[01:50:24.630 --> 01:50:35.200]  [ZAP_LONDON]: There may be some official, unofficial meetings, like there's one in Ireland, but I can never remember if it's on the British side or the Irish side, that one guy runs and another person turns up, and that's about it.
[01:50:35.250 --> 01:50:36.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: We have one in Dublin.
[01:50:37.880 --> 01:50:40.840]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Right, okay, I think it might be the Belfast one I'm thinking of.
[01:50:41.240 --> 01:50:47.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I'm not seeing, I'm not seeing Belfast in our listing, so, uh, yeah, we'd love to have them.
[01:50:48.020 --> 01:50:49.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: We would love to have them in the listing.
[01:50:50.040 --> 01:50:55.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, you know, the only criteria is first Friday of the month, you know, um, unless, you know, for religious reasons.
[01:50:55.900 --> 01:51:01.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: I know when, when Israel had meetings, we, we had those, I think on Thursday instead, uh, and, and that worked out fine.
[01:51:01.590 --> 01:51:15.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, it's just, we can't have meetings all, all different days because then you have to double the size of the page that lists them and have all kinds of asterisks and stars and things And the first Friday does tend to work and it's easy to remember.
[01:51:15.420 --> 01:51:17.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: So I don't think that's an issue, though.
[01:51:17.140 --> 01:51:18.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't think that's a problem for most people.
[01:51:20.000 --> 01:51:25.060]  [ZAP_LONDON]: No, it's just very rarely that the meetings held on another Friday for whatever reasons.
[01:51:25.320 --> 01:51:27.720]  [ZAP_LONDON]: We tend to do this in the UK quite a bit, actually.
[01:51:28.380 --> 01:51:35.160]  [ZAP_LONDON]: But we try and post it on the Twitter, Bluesky, and maybe I'll phone into the radio show just to let everyone know.
[01:51:36.300 --> 01:51:38.820]  [ZAP_LONDON]: But yeah, we tend to have our meetings on the first Friday.
[01:51:39.100 --> 01:51:41.240]  [ZAP_LONDON]: I didn't go too many times last year.
[01:51:41.240 --> 01:51:46.580]  [ZAP_LONDON]: So my New Year's resolution is to attend more of the London meetings and be more regular.
[01:51:47.720 --> 01:51:48.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, that sounds good.
[01:51:48.860 --> 01:51:49.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: That sounds good.
[01:51:49.380 --> 01:51:51.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're a calming presence at those places.
[01:51:51.910 --> 01:51:53.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: So it's good to...
[01:51:53.380 --> 01:51:57.720]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Well, funny enough, all the other UK meetings are all based off the London model.
[01:51:58.640 --> 01:52:02.440]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Because people keep asking me, I've sort of missed the 2600 in the UK.
[01:52:02.640 --> 01:52:03.740]  [ZAP_LONDON]: They say, how do I start a meeting?
[01:52:03.860 --> 01:52:04.600]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Can I have your blessing?
[01:52:04.600 --> 01:52:06.520]  [ZAP_LONDON]: And I keep telling them, you don't need my blessing.
[01:52:06.760 --> 01:52:10.780]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Just read the guidelines, set it up, and I'll start promoting it.
[01:52:11.860 --> 01:52:12.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, definitely.
[01:52:13.400 --> 01:52:16.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know who has a really good meeting is Stockholm in Sweden.
[01:52:16.720 --> 01:52:18.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: I keep hearing great things about that meeting.
[01:52:18.700 --> 01:52:20.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: A lot of people show up every month.
[01:52:21.620 --> 01:52:23.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: But we also have meetings in Kazakhstan.
[01:52:24.740 --> 01:52:27.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: We've got meetings in Japan, Colombia.
[01:52:27.700 --> 01:52:29.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: We started meetings up in Australia again.
[01:52:29.880 --> 01:52:30.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: So they're everywhere.
[01:52:30.440 --> 01:52:31.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: We even have a meeting in Russia.
[01:52:31.500 --> 01:52:33.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: So they're all over the place.
[01:52:33.320 --> 01:52:34.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, Canada, come on.
[01:52:34.840 --> 01:52:35.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: Let's come back.
[01:52:35.540 --> 01:52:37.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: Come back into the hacker world.
[01:52:37.100 --> 01:52:38.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: We want to see you again.
[01:52:39.560 --> 01:52:41.260]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Yeah, definitely need to get Canada coming up.
[01:52:41.380 --> 01:52:42.740]  [ZAP_LONDON]: And I know the whales...
[01:52:42.740 --> 01:52:44.420]  [ZAP_LONDON]: We haven't had one in whales for a long time.
[01:52:44.420 --> 01:52:46.240]  [ZAP_LONDON]: So I'm glad that's going to be starting up again.
[01:52:46.460 --> 01:52:48.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: Just please make sure we get the listing.
[01:52:48.180 --> 01:52:49.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because we'd love to have whales as well.
[01:52:50.920 --> 01:52:54.880]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Yeah, I'm not going to pressurize the person who said she's willing to do it.
[01:52:54.960 --> 01:52:55.300]  [ZAP_LONDON]: It's a woman.
[01:52:56.340 --> 01:52:59.560]  [ZAP_LONDON]: So I'm just going to leave her to have her Christmas and New Year's.
[01:52:59.640 --> 01:53:03.700]  [ZAP_LONDON]: And then I'm going to suggest after Friday about the meeting to see if she was serious.
[01:53:03.700 --> 01:53:04.500]  [ZAP_LONDON]: And, you know...
[01:53:04.500 --> 01:53:05.860]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Because I don't want to put any pressure on it.
[01:53:05.920 --> 01:53:06.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: You probably know this, Zach.
[01:53:06.880 --> 01:53:10.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: But, I mean, you know, it takes a person to start it, to get the word out.
[01:53:10.260 --> 01:53:11.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hey, this is happening.
[01:53:11.220 --> 01:53:17.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe, you know, stick some flyers in appropriate magazines and bookstores so people stumble upon it.
[01:53:17.760 --> 01:53:21.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: But once it's actually going, you don't really need to maintain it.
[01:53:21.120 --> 01:53:21.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: You don't need to...
[01:53:21.700 --> 01:53:22.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're not the boss.
[01:53:22.700 --> 01:53:25.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're not somebody that, you know, figures all these things out.
[01:53:25.540 --> 01:53:28.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: This is basically something that is self-propelled at that point.
[01:53:28.620 --> 01:53:29.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: You've started it.
[01:53:29.520 --> 01:53:32.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's like, you know, when you start a fire and it spreads out of control.
[01:53:33.160 --> 01:53:38.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: Probably not the best example, but it's just something that it takes one person to get going.
[01:53:38.820 --> 01:53:41.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: And then it's, you know, it's an entity after that.
[01:53:43.140 --> 01:53:45.420]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Yeah, but you've got to keep smoking the fire.
[01:53:45.820 --> 01:53:47.800]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Otherwise, it just tends to fade out.
[01:53:48.020 --> 01:53:53.400]  [ZAP_LONDON]: I mean, I don't know if Birmingham was on version two or version three, because there was originally a Birmingham meeting.
[01:53:53.740 --> 01:53:57.880]  [ZAP_LONDON]: The only problem was it was held on a Saturday, so it never got official recognition.
[01:53:58.280 --> 01:53:58.440]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Right.
[01:53:58.560 --> 01:54:02.880]  [ZAP_LONDON]: In the UK, we recognized it, but it wasn't recognized by the magazine, unfortunately.
[01:54:03.220 --> 01:54:09.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you know, we can always work things out if there are situations where it's, you know, not possible to do something for whatever reason.
[01:54:10.400 --> 01:54:12.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, we're open to that.
[01:54:12.180 --> 01:54:16.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's just it starts to get make things a little bit more complicated, but maybe that's what we need to do.
[01:54:16.360 --> 01:54:17.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: So we're open to it for sure.
[01:54:19.620 --> 01:54:19.980]  [ZAP_LONDON]: All right.
[01:54:20.040 --> 01:54:20.880]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Well, that's basically it.
[01:54:21.000 --> 01:54:21.840]  [ZAP_LONDON]: I'll clear down the line.
[01:54:21.980 --> 01:54:24.180]  [ZAP_LONDON]: I don't know if you're going to get another caller in or you're going to call it a night.
[01:54:24.420 --> 01:54:26.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: We are going to call it a night because that's what it is.
[01:54:26.640 --> 01:54:27.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's a night.
[01:54:28.180 --> 01:54:29.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it's a night for you, too.
[01:54:29.900 --> 01:54:30.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's what?
[01:54:39.980 --> 01:54:45.260]  [ZAP_LONDON]: I'm always in the chat counting how many people are in the chat and just having a joke around.
[01:54:45.260 --> 01:54:46.200]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Basically, it's quite good.
[01:54:46.380 --> 01:54:46.640]  Yeah.
[01:54:48.100 --> 01:54:49.500]  [ZAP_LONDON]: I do like the chat.
[01:54:49.620 --> 01:54:50.720]  [ZAP_LONDON]: It's good to see all the people.
[01:54:51.020 --> 01:54:54.380]  [ZAP_LONDON]: And it's good occasionally to hear somebody from another country.
[01:54:54.560 --> 01:54:56.380]  [ZAP_LONDON]: So Canada phoning up today was really good.
[01:54:56.640 --> 01:54:57.160]  [ZAP_LONDON]: That's right.
[01:54:57.380 --> 01:54:58.360]  [ZAP_LONDON]: The kids phoning up.
[01:54:58.460 --> 01:55:04.140]  [ZAP_LONDON]: I love because, you know, these are the new generation of hackers that will be coming into the thing as they get older.
[01:55:04.140 --> 01:55:07.540]  [ZAP_LONDON]: So it's always good when you hear kids phone in.
[01:55:07.660 --> 01:55:08.920]  [ZAP_LONDON]: It always makes me chuckle.
[01:55:09.080 --> 01:55:16.560]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Even if it's just to use the phone to make a joke or to say something, get something off their mind, it's like they're communicating.
[01:55:16.860 --> 01:55:18.280]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I think we forget.
[01:55:18.280 --> 01:55:31.940]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We talk a lot about the technology and how it works, but we forget what power it has to affect people in your lives or to be playful or to get a message across.
[01:55:31.940 --> 01:55:34.580]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So I think that's a great spirit.
[01:55:34.760 --> 01:55:35.660]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I appreciate that too.
[01:55:35.660 --> 01:55:36.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: I want to know how they dialed us.
[01:55:36.920 --> 01:55:38.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: I want to know how they found out about us.
[01:55:38.920 --> 01:55:39.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: So many questions.
[01:55:40.640 --> 01:55:41.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: But we're open to all those.
[01:55:41.740 --> 01:55:47.820]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Well, hopefully they're still listening and they'll be listening in the future and then eventually they may turn up do a meeting.
[01:55:48.200 --> 01:55:54.000]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Hopefully with parents if they're below a certain age and if they're above a certain age they can come by themselves.
[01:55:54.440 --> 01:55:54.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's right.
[01:55:55.060 --> 01:55:56.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that's the other thing with meetings.
[01:55:56.200 --> 01:56:00.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: They have to be open to all ages and they can't have any admission fees.
[01:56:01.020 --> 01:56:04.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: They can't be run by, you know, a company or anything like that.
[01:56:04.360 --> 01:56:06.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: They're just basically open to the public.
[01:56:06.480 --> 01:56:13.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, we want meetings to be where somebody just walking down the street in that area happens upon the meeting and says, oh, what are you guys up to?
[01:56:13.200 --> 01:56:16.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: And learns all about the hacker community because we're not trying to hide.
[01:56:18.660 --> 01:56:21.120]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Yeah, and that sometimes happens at the London meeting.
[01:56:21.140 --> 01:56:22.700]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Somebody will say, what's going on here?
[01:56:22.800 --> 01:56:24.540]  [ZAP_LONDON]: And we did explain what's going on.
[01:56:24.620 --> 01:56:30.040]  [ZAP_LONDON]: And they say, oh, I might come next month with certain other friends, but maybe I'll turn up next month.
[01:56:30.180 --> 01:56:31.320]  [ZAP_LONDON]: And sometimes they do.
[01:56:31.460 --> 01:56:36.440]  [ZAP_LONDON]: They come back and they have a great time and they stay and they become lifelong friends.
[01:56:36.740 --> 01:56:37.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: Isn't that amazing?
[01:56:37.940 --> 01:56:38.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's all it takes.
[01:56:38.980 --> 01:56:43.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, so much that we have done now, including the conferences, I don't think we could have done without the meetings.
[01:56:43.780 --> 01:56:53.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: So just think of all the... You know, I heard things from folks at The Loft, you know, the hacker group in Boston, about how the Boston meetings were where some of them met.
[01:56:53.640 --> 01:56:54.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that's just incredible.
[01:56:54.640 --> 01:57:04.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's really humbling to realize that people are meeting through those meetings and forming lifelong bonds and changing the world, literally changing the world.
[01:57:04.260 --> 01:57:06.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, yeah, don't short sell them.
[01:57:06.240 --> 01:57:07.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: They are important.
[01:57:07.580 --> 01:57:08.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: They're amazing.
[01:57:08.280 --> 01:57:09.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that's why we need more of them.
[01:57:10.980 --> 01:57:16.600]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Yeah, we also need to get $2,600 back on the bookshelves so we can actually go into a shop and buy it.
[01:57:16.720 --> 01:57:31.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, Zap, you probably know something about this, but there's all kinds of legal issues now when you stock magazines in bookstores in the UK, where if somebody says that what you're talking about is illegal, you can be held liable for that and fined and all kinds of things.
[01:57:32.060 --> 01:57:32.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: So I don't know.
[01:57:32.720 --> 01:57:34.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know if we want the hassle of that.
[01:57:36.240 --> 01:57:39.400]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Maybe we can arrange something through some back channels, maybe.
[01:57:40.100 --> 01:57:41.640]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Something I'm thinking of doing anyway.
[01:57:41.840 --> 01:57:42.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm listening.
[01:57:42.600 --> 01:57:43.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm listening.
[01:57:44.360 --> 01:57:45.820]  [ZAP_LONDON]: I'm not going to say it on the radio.
[01:57:46.040 --> 01:57:46.540]  [ZAP_LONDON]: I'm not silly.
[01:57:46.860 --> 01:57:49.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: No, just we'll talk through the courier as usual.
[01:57:50.360 --> 01:57:50.760]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Yeah.
[01:57:50.980 --> 01:57:51.380]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Okay.
[01:57:51.820 --> 01:57:52.300]  [ZAP_LONDON]: All right.
[01:57:52.360 --> 01:57:52.900]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Well, that was it.
[01:57:53.120 --> 01:57:54.400]  [ZAP_LONDON]: I'll say my goodbyes.
[01:57:54.500 --> 01:57:55.940]  [ZAP_LONDON]: I don't know when the next time I phone in.
[01:57:56.060 --> 01:57:57.260]  [ZAP_LONDON]: I don't like phoning in all the time.
[01:57:57.420 --> 01:58:00.940]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Rebel, please stop phoning in and doing the radio demos of the phones.
[01:58:01.100 --> 01:58:01.640]  [ZAP_LONDON]: It's annoying.
[01:58:02.580 --> 01:58:03.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: Ah, yes.
[01:58:03.580 --> 01:58:04.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, it is.
[01:58:04.300 --> 01:58:05.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, Zap, it was great hearing your voice.
[01:58:05.920 --> 01:58:07.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: And hopefully we'll see you sometime soon.
[01:58:08.900 --> 01:58:09.660]  [ZAP_LONDON]: Yeah, hopefully.
[01:58:10.100 --> 01:58:12.600]  [ZAP_LONDON]: But anyway, take care, everyone, and have a good 2025.
[01:58:13.600 --> 01:58:14.780]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We will do our best.
[01:58:14.980 --> 01:58:15.640]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Do the same.
[01:58:15.920 --> 01:58:16.780]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Great to hear you.
[01:58:16.880 --> 01:58:17.720]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Thanks for a call.
[01:58:19.540 --> 01:58:20.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[01:58:20.180 --> 01:58:23.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's our good friend, Zap, over there in the UK.
[01:58:23.920 --> 01:58:26.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I think of a good way to end the program tonight.
[01:58:26.760 --> 01:58:28.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: What do you Skype people think?
[01:58:29.560 --> 01:58:30.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, I think so.
[01:58:30.740 --> 01:58:30.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think so.
[01:58:30.760 --> 01:58:31.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: Great plan.
[01:58:31.760 --> 01:58:33.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: You all talked at the same time.
[01:58:33.440 --> 01:58:33.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's awesome.
[01:58:34.760 --> 01:58:35.780]  [ALEXURBELS]: We could do one more.
[01:58:36.040 --> 01:58:36.620]  [ALEXURBELS]: We could do it.
[01:58:36.740 --> 01:58:37.320]  [ALEXURBELS]: We could.
[01:58:37.960 --> 01:58:38.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: We could.
[01:58:38.920 --> 01:58:39.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: We'd like to.
[01:58:40.080 --> 01:58:41.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: Didn't you want to get out early?
[01:58:41.760 --> 01:58:42.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now you want to stay late.
[01:58:43.240 --> 01:58:46.080]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, I was in London this morning.
[01:58:48.140 --> 01:59:00.020]  [ALEXURBELS]: It does feel like 2 o'clock in the morning for me because I flew back from the UK at, I don't know, we got near around 11 a.m., I guess, UK time.
[01:59:00.100 --> 01:59:01.720]  [ALEXURBELS]: So I'm all screwed up.
[01:59:01.840 --> 01:59:03.980]  [ALEXURBELS]: My clock is totally screwed up.
[01:59:04.080 --> 01:59:08.520]  [ALEXURBELS]: So I would say I'm up for one more if you want to do it.
[01:59:08.800 --> 01:59:12.140]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's like a New Year's thing, post 9 o'clock.
[01:59:14.980 --> 01:59:21.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, they're going to have to call fast if they do, because I think the rest of us are clocking out about now.
[01:59:21.620 --> 01:59:22.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: Rob, what about you guys?
[01:59:23.980 --> 01:59:27.180]  [ROBVINCENT]: We can always give them Alex's number if he wants to get a phone call.
[01:59:27.540 --> 01:59:28.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, talk to Alex.
[01:59:28.540 --> 01:59:30.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think he's lonely and wants to talk to somebody.
[01:59:31.160 --> 01:59:31.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's a phone call.
[01:59:32.040 --> 01:59:32.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: Thank you, Alex.
[01:59:32.640 --> 01:59:33.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: Thank you for this.
[01:59:33.980 --> 01:59:34.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, boy.
[01:59:34.680 --> 01:59:34.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes.
[01:59:35.080 --> 01:59:36.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: So let's take one more phone call.
[01:59:37.640 --> 01:59:38.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: And good evening.
[01:59:38.540 --> 01:59:39.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: You are on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:59:40.000 --> 01:59:40.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead.
[01:59:43.660 --> 01:59:47.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm calling to see if you guys have any updates on the drones.
[01:59:47.940 --> 01:59:49.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, that's a good question.
[01:59:49.560 --> 01:59:50.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm sorry.
[01:59:50.180 --> 01:59:52.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: We missed what you said before I'm calling.
[01:59:52.500 --> 01:59:53.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: I didn't have the button pressed.
[01:59:53.560 --> 01:59:54.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: Did you say anything before that?
[01:59:55.760 --> 01:59:56.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
[01:59:56.380 --> 01:59:56.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:59:57.560 --> 01:59:58.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: Do we have any updates on the drones?
[01:59:58.980 --> 02:00:10.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you know, it's kind of going the way I thought it would, where people just stop talking about it, and it's almost like they're not there, even though I'm sure they are still there and probably were there long before they started to be noticed.
[02:00:11.400 --> 02:00:12.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know.
[02:00:12.260 --> 02:00:13.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: You guys have any thoughts on this?
[02:00:13.720 --> 02:00:15.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: Alex, you were looking to the skies?
[02:00:16.560 --> 02:00:18.060]  [ALEXURBELS]: I was looking to the skies.
[02:00:18.300 --> 02:00:32.300]  [ALEXURBELS]: I haven't seen nearly as many drones as the night that when I was crossing over to drone territory in New Jersey, that when I saw maybe 20-something kind of weird objects in the skies going back and forth horizontally.
[02:00:32.660 --> 02:00:36.180]  [ALEXURBELS]: I haven't seen that at all, and I haven't been doing a lot of driving, actually.
[02:00:36.640 --> 02:00:41.140]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Did they not do an airspace closure for that area because of this?
[02:00:41.380 --> 02:00:45.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: I thought they did an airspace closure for sensitive areas, which I thought they had done before anyway.
[02:00:45.500 --> 02:00:47.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: So I'm not really sure what effect that would have had.
[02:00:47.960 --> 02:00:58.260]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I think what it is, is to make sure all known traffic and, you know, regular activity stays away so that that area can be observed for anomalies.
[02:00:58.260 --> 02:01:01.540]  [KYLEDROSDK]: But I think that's where it stands now.
[02:01:01.740 --> 02:01:12.920]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It seems to have escalated and been taken more seriously, at least so that if people are observing things, there's no coincidence with regular air traffic.
[02:01:12.920 --> 02:01:16.460]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Or if it is, it's very obvious and can be ruled out immediately.
[02:01:16.520 --> 02:01:24.620]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Instead of everybody reporting everything they see, I think that just makes it incredibly hard to investigate.
[02:01:24.620 --> 02:01:40.480]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So by limiting in areas where there has been some unusual or, let's say, activity worthy of investigating, this helps them set up sort of a them.
[02:01:40.680 --> 02:01:41.200]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Who's them?
[02:01:41.380 --> 02:01:41.500]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[02:01:41.680 --> 02:01:49.520]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Just anybody, I guess, that is taking charge of this, the ability to look further if there's, you know, additional activity.
[02:01:49.660 --> 02:01:55.160]  [KYLEDROSDK]: But like you said, someone that was doing this would be aware or an entity, right?
[02:01:55.260 --> 02:02:05.560]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like if they're there being observed, a thing that doesn't want to be seen, right, will change if it's aware of the behavior that it's widely understood that it's around.
[02:02:05.820 --> 02:02:14.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: I want to know if people just aren't reporting them as much or if the media just isn't reporting the fact that people are reporting them still.
[02:02:15.140 --> 02:02:17.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know how you find that out exactly.
[02:02:17.200 --> 02:02:20.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: But it does seem like something has changed.
[02:02:20.060 --> 02:02:29.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I maintain it's probably that we've become fascinated with something else and just aren't talking about it as much.
[02:02:29.600 --> 02:02:30.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: I could be wrong though.
[02:02:31.100 --> 02:02:34.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: Kyle, did you have any thoughts or theories on this?
[02:02:36.080 --> 02:02:38.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think there are drones.
[02:02:38.580 --> 02:02:44.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's just which agency is in charge of them.
[02:02:44.620 --> 02:02:47.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: And they're clearly looking for something.
[02:02:48.640 --> 02:02:50.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: So what are they looking for?
[02:02:50.760 --> 02:02:52.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: And they don't want us to know about it.
[02:02:52.960 --> 02:02:56.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think they also put a statement out to not shoot them down.
[02:02:56.840 --> 02:02:57.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[02:02:57.180 --> 02:02:58.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: I thought that was very revealing.
[02:02:59.100 --> 02:03:00.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're clearly ours.
[02:03:02.720 --> 02:03:08.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, it's also the issue of shooting down something in the sky could really be threatening to people on the ground.
[02:03:11.000 --> 02:03:14.560]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, this this is a new it's a new mode.
[02:03:14.760 --> 02:03:16.100]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It's a new type of vehicle.
[02:03:16.260 --> 02:03:27.840]  [KYLEDROSDK]: There's new characteristics and the response to it has to be something that I think is widely agreed upon and and safe.
[02:03:28.040 --> 02:03:40.700]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And there's I think yet like it's not colloquial knowledge how to handle something like this when it is we'll say, okay, when is this next step going to take place like a search and rescue?
[02:03:41.020 --> 02:03:49.640]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You know, there's there's certain things that you expect or like a press conference or, you know, some kind of base area.
[02:03:50.040 --> 02:03:58.140]  [KYLEDROSDK]: All of those things are well established when this is not something that is well understood or it encompasses a variety.
[02:03:58.340 --> 02:04:07.020]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It looks like a variety of different things, but we haven't really come up with a mechanism to understand what we're even trying to determine.
[02:04:07.180 --> 02:04:13.080]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I think that's, um, where you get a lot of speculation or it creates room for that.
[02:04:13.360 --> 02:04:14.020]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So anyway, sorry.
[02:04:17.250 --> 02:04:18.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: Anything else?
[02:04:18.730 --> 02:04:19.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Alex.
[02:04:20.050 --> 02:04:49.730]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, but what about I don't know, but I think part of the issue with the drones is that we are living now in this world where it's so easy to create fake imagery or to add some kind of after effects and people are creating so much nonsense and so much nonsense content online about drones in the hope of getting recognized or as click bait or something like that.
[02:04:49.890 --> 02:05:02.730]  [ALEXURBELS]: So living in this post truth world where we're not sure what's real or what's fake because of the facility with which we can create fake content is making this, I think, extraordinarily difficult to actually report on.
[02:05:03.010 --> 02:05:15.470]  [ALEXURBELS]: Because part of what I think is so tricky about the story is that there are so many theories and all the theories have some bits of validity to them.
[02:05:15.710 --> 02:05:21.270]  [ALEXURBELS]: But then there are always certain facts that contradict every single one of these theories.
[02:05:21.670 --> 02:05:35.310]  [ALEXURBELS]: Like the theory that they're hunting for something radiological and looking for some kind of material that may have come into the United States that could potentially be used in a terrorist attack or a dirty bomb, something like that.
[02:05:35.390 --> 02:05:40.610]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, if that were the case, then why would they only be flying at night?
[02:05:41.190 --> 02:05:47.150]  [ALEXURBELS]: Wouldn't you also have drones flying around during the day looking for that same type of radiological material?
[02:05:47.690 --> 02:05:49.250]  [ALEXURBELS]: But I found it very funny, too.
[02:05:49.410 --> 02:05:56.570]  [ALEXURBELS]: Going back to being in London, you know, I was at my usual haunt, the Chelsea Arts Club for New Year's Eve and staying there.
[02:05:56.670 --> 02:06:04.390]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I had a whole bunch of people in London asking me about the drones and what I thought and whether I'd seen any of the drones.
[02:06:04.630 --> 02:06:10.770]  [ALEXURBELS]: And so, you know, it's not, yeah, it's not just the US or people all around the world, I think, have been following this.
[02:06:10.890 --> 02:06:14.050]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I think the caller is right to ask for an update.
[02:06:14.050 --> 02:06:18.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: But to address the radiological thing, two things on that.
[02:06:18.990 --> 02:06:21.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: First of all, they could be up there in the daytime.
[02:06:21.910 --> 02:06:26.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's harder to see a drone in the daytime than it is at night when it has a light on, assuming it has a light.
[02:06:27.250 --> 02:06:35.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: And number two, that whole radiological thing has been debunked because the drones were noticed before that was missing.
[02:06:35.830 --> 02:06:42.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: So they've been looking for something if that's what they're doing before that or they just were being reported before then.
[02:06:43.490 --> 02:06:45.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: Caller, any other words from you?
[02:06:49.750 --> 02:06:50.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: Are you there?
[02:06:51.090 --> 02:06:53.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: The only other thing I thought about... Hi, sorry.
[02:06:53.570 --> 02:06:55.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: Sorry, I lost you for a second.
[02:06:55.350 --> 02:06:55.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead.
[02:06:55.770 --> 02:06:58.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: The only other thought I had was the bird flu.
[02:06:59.210 --> 02:07:03.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: But no, I'm as unsure as you are.
[02:07:04.270 --> 02:07:05.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wait, hang on.
[02:07:05.290 --> 02:07:06.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: Is that a different thought?
[02:07:06.630 --> 02:07:09.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: Are you saying the drones somehow are connected with bird flu?
[02:07:11.170 --> 02:07:11.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe.
[02:07:12.330 --> 02:07:25.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: But I tried to think about what the government wouldn't want to tell us and what they couldn't control because this has been going on for a long time.
[02:07:25.850 --> 02:07:28.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: And the last thing they couldn't control was COVID.
[02:07:28.510 --> 02:07:35.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: So if you read about bird flu, it's getting bad, but it's not near pandemic levels yet.
[02:07:35.990 --> 02:07:38.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe they're monitoring it with drones.
[02:07:38.970 --> 02:07:40.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not sure how you would do that exactly.
[02:07:41.270 --> 02:07:42.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's a very far reach.
[02:07:42.270 --> 02:07:42.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[02:07:43.150 --> 02:07:44.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's an interesting theory.
[02:07:44.370 --> 02:07:46.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not sure how you would monitor bird flu with a drone.
[02:07:47.890 --> 02:07:51.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I'm not a scientist, so I guess I don't really have the answer to that.
[02:07:52.130 --> 02:07:56.210]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It is possible that multiple chaotic things are going on.
[02:07:56.410 --> 02:08:04.990]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I mean, it is that there is a lot of different... of these kinds of phenomenon, events, and curiosities.
[02:08:05.330 --> 02:08:06.970]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And then, of course, disease.
[02:08:07.310 --> 02:08:08.470]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I mean, disease is ever present.
[02:08:08.630 --> 02:08:09.950]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I think you're right.
[02:08:10.070 --> 02:08:14.130]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I mean, the bird flu phenomenon itself is concerning.
[02:08:14.450 --> 02:08:25.430]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I think there was an article recently about mutations that were potentially able to, in fact, infect the upper respiratory tract in humans.
[02:08:25.430 --> 02:08:35.450]  [KYLEDROSDK]: There have been people working in close proximity and otherwise who have become quite ill, people that work in agriculture and other areas near animals.
[02:08:36.030 --> 02:08:57.130]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So it's... that... like... that we want to go down the road where, like, okay, these drones are a delivery mechanism for infecting large populations with bird flu to, you know, see if we can be resilient from... I mean, we can... there's... there's not...
[02:08:57.130 --> 02:08:58.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, that's a different direction.
[02:08:58.210 --> 02:09:04.610]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I think... There's a wild bit of conspiracy around what I think the correlation would be.
[02:09:04.810 --> 02:09:17.490]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You have to kind of assess, okay, this is occurring, this is also occurring, until there's a fact, until there's an investigation, we really... it just becomes, like, something... too exhausting, I think.
[02:09:18.310 --> 02:09:28.070]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And to... to suggest the government is so organized, I think, gives them way, way, way more credit and power.
[02:09:29.350 --> 02:09:40.530]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I... I... I re... I would really need more concrete motivation for... if some mechanism of a conspiracy is there, like, what's the point?
[02:09:40.750 --> 02:09:40.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[02:09:41.230 --> 02:09:42.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, it could go either way.
[02:09:42.510 --> 02:09:47.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: It could be, you know, somebody trying to infect populations or somebody trying to protect populations.
[02:09:47.810 --> 02:09:54.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: But again, you know, I don't know or believe that there's a connection with bird flu at this stage.
[02:09:54.830 --> 02:09:58.550]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, we're crop dusting cattle with, like, aerosol vaccine.
[02:09:58.730 --> 02:10:01.510]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I mean, it's... you... you just don't want to go too deep into crazy.
[02:10:01.670 --> 02:10:03.630]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, yeah, there's a lot of stuff going on.
[02:10:03.770 --> 02:10:04.630]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm not saying it's crazy.
[02:10:04.710 --> 02:10:05.170]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm just saying...
[02:10:05.170 --> 02:10:06.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: And there are crazy things going on.
[02:10:06.510 --> 02:10:14.990]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You gotta... you gotta have a way of, like, organizing, filtering, and interpreting it, and not creating causation out of correlation.
[02:10:15.610 --> 02:10:16.010]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[02:10:16.510 --> 02:10:22.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, we're gonna leave it there, caller, but thank you for... for bringing that up and getting us talking about it.
[02:10:23.010 --> 02:10:23.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[02:10:24.030 --> 02:10:24.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[02:10:24.390 --> 02:10:25.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: You keep listening and take care.
[02:10:25.810 --> 02:10:25.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: Happy New Year.
[02:10:26.030 --> 02:10:26.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: You too.
[02:10:26.390 --> 02:10:26.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: Happy New Year.
[02:10:27.650 --> 02:10:31.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I think, unless Alex wants to take more phone calls, I think we're done for tonight.
[02:10:31.950 --> 02:10:32.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: Are you okay?
[02:10:33.290 --> 02:10:34.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: Or another 20 minutes?
[02:10:36.110 --> 02:10:36.930]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, that's it.
[02:10:37.010 --> 02:10:38.350]  [ALEXURBELS]: That was an extended session.
[02:10:38.470 --> 02:10:39.810]  [ALEXURBELS]: Aren't you glad we took one last one?
[02:10:39.810 --> 02:10:41.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, no, it was a good discussion.
[02:10:41.290 --> 02:10:42.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not regretting that.
[02:10:43.070 --> 02:10:46.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm just nodding off here because it's been a long day here, too.
[02:10:47.150 --> 02:10:47.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: No doubt.
[02:10:48.190 --> 02:10:48.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[02:10:48.590 --> 02:10:49.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, listen, it's been fun.
[02:10:50.190 --> 02:10:56.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: We begin 2025 with a few bangs and hopefully some good things coming up as well.
[02:10:57.450 --> 02:11:00.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: Please write to us, oth@2600.com.
[02:11:00.290 --> 02:11:08.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's a lot coming up in the next couple of weeks for 2600 and HOPE and all sorts of other things that are happening.
[02:11:08.390 --> 02:11:09.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: So it's going to be exciting.
[02:11:09.310 --> 02:11:09.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's going to be fun.
[02:11:09.850 --> 02:11:11.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we hope you're a part of that.
[02:11:11.930 --> 02:11:14.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: And looking forward to it, actually.
[02:11:14.250 --> 02:11:17.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: Looking forward to 2025, as long as you guys are around.
[02:11:19.650 --> 02:11:20.610]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, absolutely.
[02:11:22.050 --> 02:11:22.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[02:11:22.570 --> 02:11:23.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, then I'm going to say good night.
[02:11:24.230 --> 02:11:24.570]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[02:11:24.850 --> 02:11:25.410]  [ALEXURBELS]: Happy New Year.
[02:11:26.630 --> 02:11:27.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good night, everyone.