Off The Hook - 2025-03-26

[00:27.840 --> 00:31.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're sorry, your call cannot be completed as dialed.
[00:31.920 --> 00:36.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: Please check your instruction manual, or call the business office for assistance.
[02:32.140 --> 02:34.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: And a very good evening to arrive.
[02:34.600 --> 02:35.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: The program is off the hook.
[02:36.460 --> 02:41.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening, joined tonight by Kyle.
[02:42.300 --> 02:42.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.
[02:43.580 --> 02:47.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Out in Signal-land, we have Alex.
[02:49.040 --> 02:49.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: You do.
[02:50.000 --> 02:50.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening from London.
[02:51.160 --> 02:53.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're on the left side of the room this time.
[02:53.460 --> 02:53.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[02:54.040 --> 02:55.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: And also we have Rob T. Firefly.
[02:57.080 --> 02:58.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening.
[02:58.340 --> 02:59.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we have Gila.
[02:59.720 --> 03:00.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening.
[03:00.540 --> 03:05.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I laugh when I say Signal-land because, boy, Signal-land is in the news this week, is it not?
[03:05.980 --> 03:10.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this story pretty much exploded a couple of days ago.
[03:11.960 --> 03:12.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: Funny thing.
[03:14.560 --> 03:18.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know, Signal, it's an easy app to use.
[03:18.880 --> 03:23.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: But it's also, you know, it's fairly trivial to make big mistakes.
[03:24.440 --> 03:26.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: But you can do that with anything.
[03:26.360 --> 03:29.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: You can do that with, you know, a computer program.
[03:29.380 --> 03:31.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: You can do that with a nuclear arsenal.
[03:31.640 --> 03:38.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: You can, you know, do that with just about any tool that's out there and make it do something you don't want it to do.
[03:38.920 --> 03:43.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's why, you know, people should only be in charge of the things they can handle, you know.
[03:44.020 --> 03:45.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: So what are we talking about?
[03:45.580 --> 03:45.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[03:45.860 --> 03:49.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: For those of you in the future listening to this show wondering just what we're talking about this week.
[03:50.640 --> 03:51.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[03:51.280 --> 03:51.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[03:51.680 --> 03:59.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: So this country, the United States of America, bombed Yemen as part of something that we just do every now and then.
[03:59.800 --> 04:18.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: And in the process of doing that, the conversation by the various people that are involved in decisions like this, you know, Defense Secretary and National Security Advisors, people like that, they had a conversation about this.
[04:19.500 --> 04:23.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: And this conversation took place over Signal.
[04:23.300 --> 04:30.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, we'll discuss, you know, if Signal is, you know, a good idea to, you know, to have a conversation like that.
[04:31.840 --> 04:38.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: But what also happened, and it's hard to even be saying this with a straight face.
[04:39.180 --> 04:40.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not doing a good job of doing that.
[04:41.900 --> 04:52.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: A journalist from the Atlantic, the esteemed magazine, the Atlantic, was included in this conversation.
[04:53.260 --> 04:53.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: Why?
[04:55.020 --> 04:56.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's the thing.
[04:56.460 --> 04:57.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: No one seems to know why.
[04:59.060 --> 04:59.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[05:00.300 --> 05:12.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: I, you know, I saw the article that was actually in the Atlantic, was published online, that basically said, you know, I was included in the conversation about bombing Yemen.
[05:13.140 --> 05:15.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: I thought it was fake until the bombs started dropping.
[05:16.820 --> 05:18.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's pretty much what happened.
[05:19.120 --> 05:20.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's pretty much what happened.
[05:20.280 --> 05:36.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: The editor-in-chief, Jeffrey Goldberg, of the Atlantic, was included in this conversation, which, as of today, has been published online with, I believe, one redaction, a redaction of a CIA representative, because they don't like having their names mentioned.
[05:36.220 --> 05:38.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: So that's been redacted.
[05:38.260 --> 05:39.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: But pretty much everything else is now out there.
[05:40.760 --> 05:46.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: It is a screw-up of a phenomenal proportion.
[05:48.320 --> 05:53.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: The security implications, we won't even get to scratch the surface during this hour.
[05:54.800 --> 05:55.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's embarrassing.
[05:55.960 --> 06:03.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's really something that you'd expect an amateur organization to...
[06:03.700 --> 06:06.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I guess we got exactly what we voted for, didn't we?
[06:06.920 --> 06:18.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've seen better security with high school kids, you know, doing group chats and knowing who's on the chat with you.
[06:18.980 --> 06:21.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's common sense.
[06:21.840 --> 06:25.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: And these guys, they all missed it, every single one.
[06:25.640 --> 06:29.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, if they missed that, who knows what else they missed?
[06:29.440 --> 06:31.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, who else was on that conversation?
[06:32.260 --> 06:33.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: Who was on other conversations?
[06:33.980 --> 06:35.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: Who will be on future conversations?
[06:35.540 --> 06:41.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: What apps are they going to be using in the future for the most sensitive of information?
[06:41.620 --> 06:47.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: None of this has anything to do with, you know, whether or not we think it was right or wrong to do this bombing campaign.
[06:47.620 --> 06:48.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's a whole other discussion.
[06:49.700 --> 06:56.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: But this kind of a thing, you know, when you're running a country, you should have some degree of security.
[06:56.880 --> 06:58.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: You should understand how it works.
[06:58.220 --> 06:59.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: They do not.
[07:00.620 --> 07:05.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: That has become so clear if it wasn't already screamingly obvious.
[07:07.220 --> 07:13.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's start by talking about the wisdom of using signal for something like this.
[07:13.240 --> 07:17.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, I should point out, in fact, Alex, you and I had this conversation about six months ago.
[07:17.620 --> 07:20.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, maybe more, maybe more like eight months ago on these very airwaves.
[07:21.080 --> 07:22.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: We were talking about a telegram.
[07:23.180 --> 07:35.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I recall you telling me that a group chat on telegram is not encrypted because it's a lot more complex to encrypt all these different people as opposed to just, you know, a one-to-one conversation.
[07:36.880 --> 07:41.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Signal, however, it turns out, by default, does encrypt group chats.
[07:41.300 --> 07:43.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: So they have that going for them, at least.
[07:43.220 --> 07:44.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is that an accurate statement?
[07:45.840 --> 07:47.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I think so.
[07:47.660 --> 07:55.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: But you have to remember, though, that end-to-end encryption in a group chat like that is really about protecting data in transit.
[07:55.900 --> 08:03.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: The endpoint, that is the device itself on which the data resides, always decrypts the data and makes it human-readable.
[08:03.740 --> 08:10.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: So that means if you have access to the endpoint device, you have access to all of the signal chat data.
[08:11.100 --> 08:14.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: So let's pull on this a little bit.
[08:14.320 --> 08:29.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: So if the phones, let's say, if any of the phones at issue here, for any of the people that were part of this conversation, if those phones fell into the possession of someone who wasn't authorized to have them, you know, or more importantly, if those devices themselves were compromised,
[08:30.160 --> 08:32.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: then those signal chats would also be compromised.
[08:32.560 --> 08:41.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, I could go even further from this because it's really not clear at all from what I've read in the public reporting on this.
[08:45.140 --> 08:50.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have no idea about the specific devices at issue here.
[08:50.380 --> 08:52.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Were they running iOS or Android?
[08:52.900 --> 08:57.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Was the OS of the devices at issue fully updated and patched?
[08:57.840 --> 09:00.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Did they have any compromised or questionable apps on them?
[09:00.500 --> 09:06.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Were there any other signs that the phones themselves were exploited perhaps by a foreign adversary?
[09:06.440 --> 09:14.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I really believe that without a full forensic investigation of all of the devices used, that's going to be entirely unclear.
[09:15.080 --> 09:20.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, separately, as well, I think we should all know by now, and I think this is really important.
[09:21.000 --> 09:27.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: I haven't heard anybody talking about this, but we should all know by now that signal does not just run on a mobile device.
[09:27.560 --> 09:33.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, so there's a desktop client that can sync with chats that come in on a mobile device.
[09:33.800 --> 09:38.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: So why aren't there questions being asked about that?
[09:38.680 --> 09:48.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: Did any of the parties to the communications, including Jeffrey Goldberg, the reporter, the editor-in-chief from The Atlantic, did anybody have signal linked to a desktop client here?
[09:49.100 --> 09:55.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: If that's so, then that's a completely new vector of potential compromise of this classified information.
[09:55.140 --> 09:58.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, yes, I'm calling it classified information because I think it was classified.
[09:59.040 --> 10:09.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: And computers themselves, so if you have this desktop client linked to a computer, computers themselves, whether it's a laptop or a desktop running macOS or Windows or Linux, it doesn't really matter.
[10:09.300 --> 10:12.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: They are far more vulnerable and exploitable than mobile.
[10:14.340 --> 10:16.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry, you froze there, Alex.
[10:16.780 --> 10:18.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're far more exploitable than mobile.
[10:18.880 --> 10:21.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sorry, yeah, my connection isn't great here.
[10:21.080 --> 10:25.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: They are far more vulnerable and exploitable than a mobile device.
[10:26.080 --> 10:27.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Gee, I didn't know that.
[10:27.820 --> 10:30.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're saying a mobile device, i.e.
[10:30.280 --> 10:35.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: a phone, is more secure to have this kind of a conversation on than, say, a laptop or a desktop.
[10:36.920 --> 10:37.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, absolutely.
[10:37.960 --> 10:39.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: And why is that?
[10:39.860 --> 10:49.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, because the operating systems at issue, when you're running Windows, you're running macOS, Windows in particular, it's just got so many vulnerabilities inherent to it, right?
[10:49.980 --> 10:55.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: There are so many vectors that can be attacked on a Windows machine or a macOS machine.
[10:55.700 --> 10:58.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: There are so many exploits out there available.
[10:58.480 --> 11:02.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: So it's just there's so many more vulnerabilities, so many more vectors of attack.
[11:02.960 --> 11:04.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: And so they're far more vulnerable.
[11:05.100 --> 11:07.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Phones are, especially iOS devices, right?
[11:07.600 --> 11:09.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: And this comes at a cost.
[11:09.640 --> 11:14.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: An iOS device, you don't have as much power over it unless you jailbreak an iOS device, right?
[11:14.440 --> 11:16.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: But that creates its own vulnerabilities there.
[11:16.880 --> 11:25.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: So Android devices, which you have more control over the OS itself, are also known to be, you know, less hardened in many ways than iOS.
[11:25.960 --> 11:34.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, are we able to tell, let alone if they were linked to another device, which device they were on by default?
[11:34.280 --> 11:36.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: Are we assuming they all were using their phones?
[11:36.420 --> 11:44.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because to me, it seems that if you're in the process of doing something like bombing a country, you're sitting in an office somewhere, you know?
[11:44.060 --> 11:45.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're looking at a screen.
[11:45.640 --> 11:54.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're doing something that implies, you know, a permanent setting, as opposed to, you know, walking down the street, tapping on your phone, not looking at the traffic.
[11:55.880 --> 11:58.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: It just seems like that's a very casual way of communicating.
[11:58.900 --> 12:03.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know what you're saying is that's actually more secure, at least in some regards.
[12:04.300 --> 12:08.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: But do we know, was anybody actually at a computer?
[12:09.800 --> 12:11.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think we do know that.
[12:11.500 --> 12:16.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think it's quite possible that somebody could have been using a desktop client and not on their phone.
[12:17.400 --> 12:29.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's entirely unknowable from just looking at the text itself as to whether the chat message that is being sent originated from a mobile device or from a desktop device.
[12:29.240 --> 12:52.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not sure if this is entirely correct, but I believe one of the principals involved in this, perhaps Mr. Waltz himself, stated in the hearing today that this software had been installed on a desktop machine at the beginning of his term as a means of communication.
[12:52.780 --> 12:58.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: But it may not have been him, but it was one of the people that testified, I think, mentioned that today.
[12:58.220 --> 13:00.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: Kyle, if you're going to introduce characters, you have to tell us who they are.
[13:01.020 --> 13:02.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: You said Mr. Waltz.
[13:02.060 --> 13:02.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: Who is this?
[13:04.480 --> 13:07.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: I believe he's the National Security Advisor.
[13:08.000 --> 13:11.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't really matter his job position, but basically he's the guy that screwed up.
[13:11.580 --> 13:11.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[13:12.120 --> 13:13.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's all you have to say.
[13:13.400 --> 13:14.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Isn't he the one that added the journalist?
[13:14.420 --> 13:21.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: He, for some reason, and I want to look into this as well, he, for some reason, added Jeffrey Goldberg into the chat.
[13:22.560 --> 13:37.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, okay, we must have some kind of a theory as to how that happened, because based on the comments, and we'll get into that in a little bit, that these folks had about this particular journalist, it didn't seem like he was really tight with them.
[13:38.000 --> 13:42.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: So why, in God's name, was he added to this signal chat?
[13:42.800 --> 13:43.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: Any theories?
[13:45.180 --> 13:46.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead, Gila.
[13:46.800 --> 14:04.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: Did read a theory that, because so many people who were in this chat are going by their initials, that he initially intended, or someone in the chat intended to add someone whose initials were JG, who I believe was another member of the security community,
[14:04.640 --> 14:08.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: and just added the wrong JG.
[14:09.100 --> 14:13.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is it that easy in Signal to add the wrong person?
[14:14.520 --> 14:18.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because, you know, what if, what if, God forbid, there are two Jeffrey Goldbergs?
[14:18.540 --> 14:22.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's really easy to mix one up for the other.
[14:25.200 --> 14:29.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's got to, it has to be more of a confirmation process and just, oh, autofill the name.
[14:29.420 --> 14:29.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead, Rob.
[14:30.560 --> 14:31.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: It certainly can be.
[14:32.180 --> 14:37.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Signal, like on lots of messaging apps, you can choose a username, and that can be whatever you like.
[14:37.240 --> 14:42.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: But it can also go by whatever you have that individual stored as in your phone's local contacts.
[14:42.540 --> 15:01.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: So if somebody had in their contacts been scrolling up and down and just clicked on the wrong JG, you know, how many of us have clicked on the wrong contact before or after the person we wanted to contact, it could be as stupid as that, which is very interesting when you think about this being used by people in charge of all this stuff.
[15:01.960 --> 15:10.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, like, what you're saying is, if, say, in my signal contact, for, well, I'm not going to say who, but for one of you, it says do not answer.
[15:11.760 --> 15:19.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: If I were to start typing D-O, it would fill that in, even though you're also accessible by, and again, I'm not going to say who it was.
[15:20.580 --> 15:28.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: It sounds like there are multiple vectors, to coin an Alex phrase, to compromise this particular form of communication.
[15:28.860 --> 15:29.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: Kyle?
[15:29.060 --> 15:39.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I would also note that from the tenor of the article, it seems as though they had not been using complete names in, um, their profiles to begin with.
[15:39.900 --> 15:45.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like, you know, the icon, if you don't have a picture for it, it'll put just the, the first initials.
[15:45.940 --> 15:46.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: First initial, yes.
[15:46.360 --> 16:04.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: But the way the author of the article, uh, Jeff, Jeffrey Golds, Gold, Goldberg, Goldberg stated, he was describing them and then like kind of, um, well, in the annotated, article as well, they're basically, um, theorizing which initial.
[16:04.700 --> 16:13.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm wondering if this is perhaps an ironic effect of them trying to obfuscate their full names in profiles.
[16:13.500 --> 16:21.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like instead of entering in the signal contact as a, as they set it up, instead of entering their full name, they just put their initials.
[16:21.180 --> 16:23.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it made it harder to actually discern.
[16:24.080 --> 16:46.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: You just have like a contact list full of initials because in the article, he's basically trying to, um, trying to, uh, theorize or just, or is speculating which initial means which person there aren't full names in the, uh, in the chat or in, insofar as he could discern even being a member,
[16:46.840 --> 16:46.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: right?
[16:47.160 --> 16:58.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: These guys, um, uh, um, idea of security might be instead of writing Pete Hegzev to simply say P H and mask their identity in that way.
[16:58.820 --> 17:03.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: It kind of seems like that, like that was a way of impenetrable, man.
[17:03.120 --> 17:04.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: I wouldn't be able to figure that out.
[17:04.280 --> 17:21.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like being like really minimal, which itself like, okay, that's clever, but lots of times like in communications at unified and other communications apps like this, you're being social, you're added to the various groups or lists or, or, um, other people's contacts.
[17:21.400 --> 17:28.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: You want to be somewhat identifiable, especially if it's a service where people sort of can find you or it announces.
[17:28.380 --> 17:33.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's something we've talked about before where signal sort of announces to people if you're already a contact.
[17:33.880 --> 17:39.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, I, I, I think it, it's a counterintuitive thing.
[17:39.380 --> 17:45.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like they may have been trying to be a little more, a little sneaky, but it ended up leading to a little bit of confusion.
[17:45.540 --> 17:49.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: Might I suggest, um, in the hacker community for many years, we have used handles.
[17:49.760 --> 17:54.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, it's not necessarily our, our names could be, uh, you know, an animal's name.
[17:54.180 --> 17:56.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: It could be a building's name, could be anything you want.
[17:56.520 --> 18:00.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's how your friends know you and other people might not.
[18:00.820 --> 18:14.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: Although usually they find out at some point, if these were all handles, we wouldn't really be able to tell who is whom, except for the, we're not supposed to be only, only, only, only, only they are supposed to be able to tell that we're not supposed to be able to tell that it's all out there in the open guide,
[18:15.020 --> 18:15.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Alex.
[18:16.660 --> 18:22.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is a very good reason why there should be an investigation into how this happened.
[18:22.400 --> 18:28.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: You need to have some kind of forensic, uh, accounting of what had happened on that particular phone.
[18:28.720 --> 18:36.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: This could be as simple as the Jeffrey Goldberg's number was stored with a different name by accident.
[18:36.760 --> 18:46.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: He might've met him at a cocktail party, took his number and accidentally stored it as somebody else, and then added that person that he intended to add, but actually added Jeffrey Goldberg.
[18:46.660 --> 18:53.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: But how this happened is, is really a matter of, I think, national importance, because it's a matter of international embarrassment.
[18:54.220 --> 18:54.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hang on, hang on.
[18:54.920 --> 19:12.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Are you saying it's as easy as me going to a cocktail party in Washington, D.C., introducing myself as, as Donald Trunk to a lot of people, and having them type that into their phone, and every time they, they, uh, let autocomplete finish, I'm going to get added to their call instead of somebody else.
[19:13.560 --> 19:14.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: I guess, yes.
[19:14.820 --> 19:16.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: That is probably...
[19:16.920 --> 19:20.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I thought of that in one second, so there must be a lot of other more sophisticated...
[19:21.020 --> 19:21.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[19:21.700 --> 19:24.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: You just have to be invited to parties, which I know that doesn't happen.
[19:25.000 --> 19:26.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, that's always been a problem, yeah.
[19:26.620 --> 19:27.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[19:27.560 --> 19:27.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[19:27.960 --> 19:28.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're too frumpy.
[19:30.900 --> 19:35.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, so, um, yeah, we, we have the situation.
[19:35.420 --> 19:36.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead, Rob, you have something.
[19:37.020 --> 19:51.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, just one thing I think we need to mention is the fact that, uh, you know, for those unfamiliar, these officials should not be using Signal for this, uh, for this, and that is, uh, directly down to a rule at the Department of Defense.
[19:51.600 --> 20:06.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, there is a memo I'm looking at, uh, which was published on the 6th of October, 2023, which, uh, goes into what these mobile apps are, um, referring to non-classified, unclassified systems, um, which can refer to any chat apps that aren't, you know,
[20:07.100 --> 20:09.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: government-approved for classified material.
[20:09.520 --> 20:20.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: And in accordance, I'm quoting here, in accordance with DOD instruction 5200.01, DOD personnel will not use unclassified systems, government-issued or otherwise for classified national security information.
[20:21.260 --> 20:29.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're not supposed to put Signal on your government-issued phone, and you're not supposed to be using your personal, non-government-issued phone to discuss this stuff.
[20:29.680 --> 20:40.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: So these, this is the huge point about this, where they were not using a, they were not using a government-issued, um, tech to do this government business.
[20:40.900 --> 20:48.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that does not leave them open to the accountability they That does not leave them open to the security, you know, levels that they should be.
[20:48.500 --> 20:51.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is a huge screw-up on massive proportions.
[20:51.460 --> 20:53.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: This goes well beyond but-her-emails.
[20:54.240 --> 20:57.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: The thing is, this is not a screw-up.
[20:57.260 --> 20:59.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is something that has been planned for a while.
[20:59.940 --> 21:04.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're using Signal as an end-run around FOIA, very specifically.
[21:04.440 --> 21:15.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: And ProPublica published 14 hours of Project 2025 training videos that talk specifically about using this kind of protocols to make sure this doesn't...
[21:15.600 --> 21:16.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: I apologize.
[21:16.260 --> 21:25.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: I did not have 14 hours today to watch all the ProPublica videos about how to use Signal to avoid maintaining this kind of information.
[21:26.640 --> 21:36.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: But this is... all the stickers and all the warnings about Project 2025, none of this can be a surprise.
[21:36.040 --> 21:42.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: I am surprised by the extent of how much people are brushing this off.
[21:42.380 --> 21:43.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's part of what scares me.
[21:43.620 --> 21:46.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, the people brushing it off are the people with something to hide.
[21:46.700 --> 21:48.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's pretty clear that they're getting increasingly desperate.
[21:48.800 --> 22:07.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: But just to speak to what Rob said a moment ago, as far as using Signal, I saw not 12 hours ago, somebody, I believe it's from the Department of Defense, being quoted saying, this is automatically installed on our devices.
[22:08.560 --> 22:10.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: So what gives here?
[22:10.260 --> 22:13.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're not supposed to use it, and yet it's automatically installed.
[22:13.720 --> 22:16.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: So something doesn't add up there.
[22:18.220 --> 22:19.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead, Alex.
[22:21.640 --> 22:22.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Alex, go ahead.
[22:23.100 --> 22:30.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, look, I think that would be weird if Signal was installed on these devices.
[22:30.760 --> 22:32.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't really understand it.
[22:32.120 --> 22:38.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: But again, that's why we need a greater accounting of what the hell was happening here.
[22:38.260 --> 22:40.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Why was Signal on these devices?
[22:40.700 --> 22:51.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, it doesn't seem to me at all reasonable that Signal would be installed on devices by default for the specific purpose of conveying classified information here.
[22:51.700 --> 22:54.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, and look, what we're talking about, let's be really clear here.
[22:54.960 --> 23:00.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're talking about operational details of a forthcoming strike on a hostile foreign adversary.
[23:01.180 --> 23:08.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: For the Trump administration, or anybody in any administration, to claim that that's not classified is totally insane.
[23:09.020 --> 23:12.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, this is not exactly the type of stuff you'd see written on a bathroom wall, right?
[23:12.520 --> 23:15.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, how could this not be classified as beyond me?
[23:15.120 --> 23:16.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, I mean, the government...
[23:17.080 --> 23:28.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: And remember, I had worked in the intelligence community in access to classified information for quite some time, and the government has always been overcautious when it comes to the classification of documents and information.
[23:28.960 --> 23:32.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, it's come under scrutiny and criticism.
[23:32.500 --> 23:36.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's been a tremendous amount of criticism for the government overclassifying documents.
[23:36.420 --> 23:39.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: So the idea that this would not be classified is totally nuts.
[23:40.760 --> 23:50.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: To me, this sounds a hell of a lot like information that should not have been discussed outside of something called a SCIF or a sensitive...
[23:51.300 --> 23:54.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Alex, you keep freezing up, so please try to improve your signal.
[23:55.840 --> 23:57.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's probably not going to improve.
[23:57.500 --> 23:59.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to be a little wonky here today.
[23:59.800 --> 24:08.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, so my point is that this is information that should not be discussed outside of a SCIF or a sensitive compartmented information facilities.
[24:08.340 --> 24:20.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: In other words, this is a secure room or some kind of facility that is designed to protect classified information from unauthorized access, including things like electronic surveillance and data leakage.
[24:20.700 --> 24:38.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: So this is highly, highly classified information, in my view, and certainly not something that should have ever been addressed on anyone's personal mobile device, especially if those communications are connected with a desktop device in somebody's house in Fairfax,
[24:38.380 --> 24:39.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Virginia, or something.
[24:39.240 --> 24:40.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's totally nuts.
[24:40.080 --> 24:53.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, to answer your question here, from a Politico article, Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, testified to House Intelligence Committee members yesterday...
[24:53.020 --> 24:58.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, today, that encrypted messaging app signal comes pre-installed on government devices.
[24:59.320 --> 25:00.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: So there you go.
[25:01.100 --> 25:02.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's where it's coming from.
[25:03.040 --> 25:05.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that kind of makes it official.
[25:05.680 --> 25:08.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, she's the person in charge.
[25:08.280 --> 25:08.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: She's the person in charge.
[25:08.780 --> 25:10.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: So here you go.
[25:10.880 --> 25:11.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead, Gail.
[25:11.500 --> 25:11.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[25:12.240 --> 25:14.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: But didn't she then also say that she wasn't in that chat?
[25:16.020 --> 25:22.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, everyone's trying to cover their asses here, but, you know, they're all pretty much complicit.
[25:23.080 --> 25:23.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, absolutely.
[25:23.980 --> 25:31.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: I do want to say, though, that one thing that does make me sad about the current environment in which we live...
[25:31.200 --> 25:32.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there are a lot of things that do.
[25:32.440 --> 25:51.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think the fact that should Pete Hegseth find himself out of a job in the next few days, which is a diminishingly likely possibility, but should that happen, I am confident that he will, A, get on Cameo, and, B, be selling T-shirts that say we are currently clean on OPSEC.
[25:53.000 --> 25:56.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: If they had a sense of humor, they would do things like that, but they don't.
[25:56.100 --> 25:56.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're incompetent.
[25:57.020 --> 25:58.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: They should not be in charge.
[25:58.680 --> 26:01.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're Fox News commentators, for God's sake.
[26:01.180 --> 26:03.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're not even journalists, you know?
[26:03.160 --> 26:05.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I think, you know, that's why...
[26:05.020 --> 26:12.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: That must be one of the reasons why Pete Hegseth is so hostile towards Jeffrey Goldberg.
[26:12.580 --> 26:17.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I was noticing this the other day before this story really got legs.
[26:18.720 --> 26:25.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Why were they attacking this journalist who did the right thing and alerted people, hey, you have a problem here.
[26:25.980 --> 26:31.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: You just texted me all this, you know, sensitive information, if not top-secret information.
[26:32.420 --> 26:37.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: He could have easily just lurked back there for the next chat, but he didn't.
[26:37.380 --> 26:38.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: He did the right thing.
[26:38.600 --> 26:40.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: And Trump is calling him a sleazebag.
[26:41.660 --> 26:46.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, yeah, I mean, I want to read you what Hegseth said.
[26:46.080 --> 26:55.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: First of all, he claimed that nobody was texting war plans, which obviously is a direct contradiction to even what the White House said.
[26:56.320 --> 27:09.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: But basically, he tried to discredit Jeffrey Goldberg by basically saying, you're talking about a deceitful and highly discredited so-called journalist who's made a profession of peddling hoaxes.
[27:09.360 --> 27:12.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is a guy who peddles in garbage.
[27:14.340 --> 27:17.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: Obviously, I'm not able to really come up with more words than pedal.
[27:18.560 --> 27:20.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, yeah, super angry.
[27:20.420 --> 27:28.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is, you know, obviously he has been caught being part of a massive mistake, and he's really upset at that point.
[27:28.340 --> 27:43.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, I was trying to figure out what is it about Jeffrey Goldberg that both Trump and Hegseth and it seems many of the people in the Republican Party and in the MAGA world feel towards this guy.
[27:43.360 --> 27:44.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: Where is all this hostility coming from?
[27:45.120 --> 27:46.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: I might have found it.
[27:46.320 --> 27:47.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: I looked at his Wikipedia page.
[27:47.880 --> 27:50.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's filled with all kinds of incredible things.
[27:50.420 --> 27:54.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you know, the guy has a very stellar past.
[27:54.700 --> 27:58.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: He had interviews with many... Obama.
[27:58.220 --> 28:00.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: He had Obama interviews, which were really well-regarded.
[28:00.880 --> 28:03.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: But here's something else that you might not know about.
[28:03.460 --> 28:06.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: In September 2020, Goldberg published Trump.
[28:07.200 --> 28:09.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: Americans who died in war are losers and suckers.
[28:10.380 --> 28:11.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's where it came from.
[28:12.080 --> 28:28.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: According to (((Goldberg's))) article in canceling a 2018 visit to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery and Memorial in France, which contains the remains of 2,289 U.S. service members killed in combat in World War I.
[28:32.190 --> 28:35.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Trump is alleged to have privately said, why should I go to that cemetery?
[28:35.450 --> 28:36.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's filled with losers.
[28:36.730 --> 28:39.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: He also repeatedly referred to the more than 1,800 U.S. Marines who lost their lives at the Battle of Belleau Wood as suckers for getting killed.
[28:47.290 --> 29:00.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, CNN reported that (((Goldberg's))) article immediately became a massive story with Democrats, including Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden, rushing to condemn Trump for his alleged behavior and the White House rallying an aggressive pushback against the article, including the president himself.
[29:02.330 --> 29:09.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Trump tweeted, The Atlantic is dying, like most magazines, so they make up a fake story in order to gain some relevance.
[29:09.010 --> 29:11.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: The story already refuted.
[29:11.950 --> 29:18.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Referring to Goldberg's blockbuster revelation, the Intelligencer said the scope and intensity of the pushback was nuclear.
[29:19.290 --> 29:25.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: It added, while it's impossible to directly prove any of these allegations, there is an impressive amount of corroborating evidence.
[29:26.010 --> 29:28.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Almost all of it supports Goldberg's reporting.
[29:29.110 --> 29:30.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: So there you go.
[29:30.170 --> 29:42.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: You have an accredited journalist coming up against a corrupt leader caught saying something that he definitely should not have said and reacting with fierce anger.
[29:42.190 --> 29:48.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: And when that name came up again, and funny thing, that dying magazine still seems to be around, seems to be doing quite well.
[29:48.210 --> 29:50.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: In fact, I hear they're going monthly again, which is great.
[29:52.030 --> 29:53.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: He must be really, really upset.
[29:53.570 --> 29:57.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: They must all be so upset because, God, they look so bad.
[29:58.170 --> 29:58.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead, Rob.
[30:00.070 --> 30:02.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, every accusation is still in admission.
[30:03.270 --> 30:14.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: Going back to the subject of who was and wasn't on this chat and talking about personal versus government devices, the envoy to the Middle East and Ukraine, Steve Witkoff, was in Moscow when this chat was going on.
[30:14.950 --> 30:16.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: He was included in the chat.
[30:16.850 --> 30:18.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: He was in a list of people on the chat.
[30:18.990 --> 30:23.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: He didn't make any comments during Goldberg's look at the chat.
[30:23.830 --> 30:37.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: But he later said that on his own, Steve Witkoff said on his own Twitter, I only had with me a secure phone provided by the government for special circumstances when you travel to regions where you don't want your devices compromised, saying, yeah, I wasn't on it.
[30:37.370 --> 30:47.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was in Moscow, and I only had my government device, which means that his signal devices were his personal devices, device or devices, which he's saying he left at home.
[30:47.590 --> 30:52.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, yeah, there you are, using your personal device with signal and admitting to that on Twitter.
[30:52.510 --> 30:53.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: I got really confused there.
[30:53.870 --> 31:02.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, he had his government device, his secure phone, running signal in Moscow.
[31:02.230 --> 31:02.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is that what you're saying?
[31:03.990 --> 31:10.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: Evidently, he had his secure phone with him in Moscow, which is why he wasn't active on the signal chat in which he was included.
[31:11.050 --> 31:12.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is what he is saying.
[31:12.390 --> 31:17.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: And by saying that, he is saying, no, my signal stuff, I use my personal phone for that, obviously.
[31:17.170 --> 31:19.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, that's why I wasn't on there when I was in Russia.
[31:19.210 --> 31:29.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, the headline I see from CBS says, as top Trump aides sent text on signal, flight data shows a member of the group chat was in Russia.
[31:29.390 --> 31:30.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: A member of the group chat.
[31:30.890 --> 31:33.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, that says he was on the chat.
[31:33.730 --> 31:35.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, he was included in the chat.
[31:35.790 --> 31:40.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: His name was in the list of users included on the chat, but he wasn't active on it.
[31:40.450 --> 31:45.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: He wasn't messaging anything in the string of messages that have become public knowledge.
[31:45.510 --> 31:48.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wait, you can be in a chat and not be active in the chat.
[31:48.730 --> 31:50.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't do chats very often, obviously.
[31:51.390 --> 31:52.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, well, so...
[31:52.510 --> 31:53.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely, you can.
[31:53.410 --> 32:05.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just as if we, you know, if one of us went on mute, turned off our camera, we'd be on this signal call that we're using to talk to you and to our radio listeners, but we wouldn't be active in the chat.
[32:05.930 --> 32:07.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but you're there.
[32:07.150 --> 32:08.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're there, though.
[32:08.530 --> 32:14.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you turn off your computer and walk out the door, that's different than you're not there anymore, you see?
[32:14.370 --> 32:29.970]  [SPEAKER_01]: But, if I've been included in the chat, so, as a comparison, I was in a wedding and we were planning the bachelor party, bachelorette party, so all of the bridesmaids and maid of honor were in a chat together.
[32:30.250 --> 32:37.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: Some people were included, like, they were texted and their names were there, but they never responded because they were bad planners.
[32:38.490 --> 32:44.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: And we, they had been, like, sent the chat, they just never acknowledged it, never responded to it.
[32:45.330 --> 32:47.650]  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the kind of thing we're talking about.
[32:47.790 --> 32:54.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you send a text to nine people and three of them respond, nine people are in the chat, but three of them are active.
[32:55.190 --> 32:55.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: Does that make sense?
[32:56.190 --> 32:56.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Sort of.
[32:56.970 --> 33:01.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm still a little confused as to whether or not you know who is there and who is not there.
[33:02.290 --> 33:04.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: You remember idling on IRC.
[33:04.430 --> 33:05.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, of course.
[33:05.610 --> 33:06.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing it right now.
[33:08.170 --> 33:11.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: But it means I go back to it at some point and see what I missed.
[33:11.630 --> 33:12.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's, it's being locked.
[33:13.590 --> 33:18.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: So is this person who wasn't active, is he able to go back and see it later?
[33:19.730 --> 33:21.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, he was idling in the chat.
[33:21.670 --> 33:25.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that was because his signal was running at home on his personal devices.
[33:25.890 --> 33:26.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's the same thing.
[33:26.590 --> 33:27.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: He was in the chat then.
[33:27.990 --> 33:32.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: He was, he was, you know, he doesn't have to be active right now to get all the juicy data.
[33:33.770 --> 33:38.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: So that's, you know, it's, it's just, it boggles the mind that, that, you know, people can be anywhere.
[33:39.110 --> 33:41.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: You can be looking over someone's shoulder.
[33:41.290 --> 33:43.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: You don't know who's actually reading the text.
[33:43.930 --> 33:47.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Somebody could take a picture of the phone and save it for all posterity.
[33:47.450 --> 33:59.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know, you know, this particular signal chat, if I, if I read correctly, the, the text disappears after a week, which is a problem right there because there's no accountability, which is probably the intent of using signal.
[33:59.010 --> 34:05.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, but, um, obviously, you know, in this particular case that did not last because of journalism.
[34:06.050 --> 34:06.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead, Alex.
[34:07.470 --> 34:22.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: I, I like, uh, the way Rob has been thinking about this and the various deductions that, that he's been making here with respect to the use of the personal devices and, and going back to this weird notion of signal being installed by default on government phones.
[34:22.770 --> 34:25.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that does not necessarily mean that you should use.
[34:27.990 --> 34:31.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, you always freeze at the most, uh, inopportune moments, Alex.
[34:31.870 --> 34:33.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: You really have to get about it.
[34:33.050 --> 34:33.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[34:34.210 --> 34:41.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, so, well, it's, it's, it's where I am terribly, but, uh, it's not going to get better until I get back to the United States, apparently.
[34:41.670 --> 34:44.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: There are other places in England you can connect to the Internet, but never mind.
[34:44.910 --> 34:45.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: We'll discuss that later.
[34:45.990 --> 34:47.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, not here, not now.
[34:47.650 --> 34:49.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right now, this is the only thing I have available.
[34:49.270 --> 34:56.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: But in any event, uh, the, the point is that you, you don't necessarily have to use signal for communications just because it's on your device.
[34:56.970 --> 35:02.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, uh, there are legal reasons why you should not be using signal for these types of communications.
[35:02.890 --> 35:14.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, some of them may involve things like, well, you could be violating perhaps the Espionage Act by, uh, mishandling national defense information through signal in this way.
[35:14.390 --> 35:18.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Also, you could be violating the Presidential Records Act and the Federal Records Act.
[35:18.890 --> 35:24.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: These are, these are laws that mandate the preservation of certain types of government records.
[35:24.270 --> 35:29.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: And these are, these communications are certainly records that would be mandated to be preserved.
[35:29.690 --> 35:42.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the use of signals disappearing messages features, uh, and, and the potential failure to archive these types of communications could actually violate those two different laws, those, those various acts.
[35:42.630 --> 36:01.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, also, if, if you're trying to prevent records or, or you have an intent to evade record-keeping requirements by using signal to conceal official records from the government form of criminal offense.
[36:01.190 --> 36:02.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Take that sentence again, Alex.
[36:03.570 --> 36:04.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, it's really annoying.
[36:04.970 --> 36:05.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[36:05.410 --> 36:17.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, if, if you are actually trying to evade record-keeping, uh, by using signal to conceal official records from the government, that in and of itself could be a criminal act.
[36:18.310 --> 36:18.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting.
[36:19.250 --> 36:34.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, you know, one question I had that I, I asked you guys before, um, when you're using the, um, the signal group chat, and again, I don't do this, uh, so I, I don't really know, um, how would you catch something like the Jeffrey Goldberg, um, um,, incident?
[36:34.390 --> 36:37.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: How would you know somebody's on there that shouldn't be on there?
[36:38.550 --> 36:54.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, um, um, I, I saw a screen grab of what a group chat looks like, and I see people chatting, you know, I see people talking, but I don't see a list of names of people who are on the chat at that moment, like over to the side, like you would see in a desktop because there's space for it.
[36:55.010 --> 37:00.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: You have to actually select, um, um, uh, something that shows you a list of everybody who's there.
[37:00.390 --> 37:12.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I can see all these people not doing that and, um, and, and, and not checking, and this guy is able to just hang out there and who knows who else is able to just hang out there for, for however long and not be detected.
[37:12.430 --> 37:12.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Rob?
[37:13.970 --> 37:15.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's, uh, that's about right.
[37:15.830 --> 37:21.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, you can click over at any time during a signal group chat and see the full list of people who are on it.
[37:21.290 --> 37:35.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: um, you can see when, when people get added, when people leave the chat, but, um, nobody, uh, nobody can really enforce any sort of, uh, any sort of, hey, everyone just make sure you know that such and such is on this chat now.
[37:35.310 --> 37:46.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: And when this chat was started, when it was put together or at any point after that, um, this, uh, this person, someone added the wrong person into the chat, uh, and, you know, hilarity ensued.
[37:48.070 --> 37:49.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: It certainly appears so.
[37:49.450 --> 38:04.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, now, if you're interested in who the members of the chat were, of course, in addition to Jeffrey Goldberg, we had, uh, Mike Waltz, who is the guy who, uh, for whatever reason, uh, brought, um, uh, Jeffrey into that particular, uh, conversation.
[38:04.690 --> 38:05.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have Scott B.
[38:06.330 --> 38:11.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, that refers to Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, billionaire hedge fund manager.
[38:12.490 --> 38:14.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, there's Brian, just Brian.
[38:15.150 --> 38:19.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's Brian McCormick, former energy consultant, chief of staff for the National Security Council.
[38:19.450 --> 38:20.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Serving Underwalls.
[38:20.550 --> 38:22.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, there's Pete Hegsev.
[38:22.350 --> 38:32.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, there's, uh, Dan Katz, the chief of staff for Besant, who identifies Katz as the Treasury Department's, um, uh, contact in the chat.
[38:32.470 --> 38:35.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Joe Kent, Trump's nominee to run the counterterrorism center.
[38:35.910 --> 38:36.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: S.M.
[38:36.830 --> 38:38.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Anyone want to guess who S.M.
[38:38.130 --> 38:38.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: is?
[38:39.710 --> 38:40.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead.
[38:40.830 --> 38:41.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Nobody?
[38:41.650 --> 38:42.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: I, I...
[38:42.890 --> 38:44.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I bet it's Stephen Miller.
[38:44.590 --> 38:45.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Stephen Miller, you got it.
[38:45.310 --> 38:49.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, Mike Needham, the counselor and chief of staff to, uh, Marco Rubio.
[38:49.570 --> 38:52.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, John Ratcliffe, the CIA director.
[38:52.610 --> 38:54.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, was I not supposed to say his name?
[38:54.350 --> 38:54.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: He's CIA.
[38:55.550 --> 38:56.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, I don't know.
[38:57.010 --> 39:00.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, Susie Wiles, the White House chief of staff.
[39:00.850 --> 39:02.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, T.G.
[39:02.870 --> 39:03.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: Any guesses?
[39:04.590 --> 39:07.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: The people who use initials, they're the ones that really are thinking security.
[39:08.130 --> 39:08.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right?
[39:08.810 --> 39:09.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Stephen Miller is number one.
[39:10.070 --> 39:11.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: T.G., come on.
[39:11.450 --> 39:11.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Tulsi Gabbard.
[39:12.130 --> 39:12.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Tulsi Gabbard, yeah.
[39:13.290 --> 39:13.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Not, not bad.
[39:14.150 --> 39:15.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Vice President Vance.
[39:15.490 --> 39:18.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Stephen Widkoff, the Trump administration's special envoy.
[39:19.330 --> 39:22.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, Alex Wong, Waltz's aide.
[39:22.690 --> 39:27.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, Walker Barrett, likely a senior staffer on Waltz's national security team.
[39:28.470 --> 39:31.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm looking at thehill.com, they don't even know for sure.
[39:31.430 --> 39:35.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then there's Jacob, and it's unclear who Jacob is.
[39:35.370 --> 39:36.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's literally what it says.
[39:36.850 --> 39:38.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: It is unclear who Jacob is.
[39:38.930 --> 39:39.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: What, who is Jacob?
[39:40.130 --> 39:41.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: Can we find this out?
[39:41.450 --> 39:42.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: We should know who Jacob is.
[39:43.050 --> 39:43.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: He was on the call.
[39:44.410 --> 39:45.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: My goodness.
[39:46.110 --> 39:50.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, and here's one final bit of, uh, fun that, uh, Wired uncovered.
[39:50.750 --> 40:06.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah, a Venmo account under the name Michael Waltz carrying a profile photo of the national security advisor connected to accounts bearing the names of people closely associated with him was left open to the public until this afternoon.
[40:07.210 --> 40:19.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: A Wired analysis shows that the account revealed the names of hundreds of Waltz's personal and professional associates, including journalists, military officers, lobbyists, and others.
[40:19.510 --> 40:25.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Information a foreign intelligence service or other actors could exploit for any number of ends.
[40:25.770 --> 40:31.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm telling you, these folks are not qualified to be anywhere near the buildings that they currently occupy.
[40:31.830 --> 40:32.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is incredible.
[40:33.430 --> 40:40.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: I do want to ask one question, though, since this was open and everybody was able to peruse the hundreds of people, was Jeffrey Goldberg in that list?
[40:40.690 --> 40:42.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: That would be a nice clue.
[40:43.910 --> 40:47.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, but I did find one thing that I wanted to bring to kind of close the circle.
[40:47.410 --> 40:48.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Are you saying no, he was not in there?
[40:48.990 --> 40:49.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: You looked at the list?
[40:51.690 --> 40:54.350]  [SPEAKER_01]: At Pete Hegsitz, I'm sorry, at Michael Waltz's Venmo?
[40:54.450 --> 40:55.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, I did not.
[40:55.250 --> 40:56.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I don't know what the no was for then.
[40:56.550 --> 40:56.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[40:57.230 --> 41:03.750]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I mean, I'm just guessing because here's the other thing I learned and I realized I mentioned this earlier and didn't get to finish it.
[41:04.050 --> 41:22.390]  [SPEAKER_01]: So this is why it's also probably really good to have contact photos because Jameson Greer, who was confirmed last month as a trade something or another, was probably the second JG in Michael Waltz's phone.
[41:22.570 --> 41:27.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: And he meant to add Jameson Greer and just saw JG and went for it.
[41:27.950 --> 41:32.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm assuming that the smart money is on that.
[41:33.450 --> 41:39.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is just the incompetence is mind boggling.
[41:39.910 --> 41:42.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I've never made that mistake.
[41:42.450 --> 41:44.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't even know how to make that kind of a mistake.
[41:44.450 --> 41:52.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: I look at names of people if I'm going to be calling them, for instance, and if it's not the person I'm calling, I don't call them.
[41:53.670 --> 41:55.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's basically just simple checking.
[41:55.750 --> 42:02.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: And if these people aren't checking who they're talking to, they're sure as hell not checking what they're doing with the tremendous power that they've been entrusted with.
[42:03.150 --> 42:03.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Alex?
[42:05.810 --> 42:06.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Alex?
[42:07.270 --> 42:08.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're staring at your finger.
[42:08.690 --> 42:08.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead.
[42:09.090 --> 42:10.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, I'm back.
[42:10.510 --> 42:12.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: I keep freezing going in and out here.
[42:12.470 --> 42:15.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I want to talk about the mistakes here.
[42:15.890 --> 42:23.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because we're talking about this signal gate scandal as if it's some kind of one-off major catastrophe here.
[42:23.690 --> 42:27.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, this was, this revelation was really stunning.
[42:27.810 --> 42:30.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's amateur hour for operational security.
[42:30.730 --> 42:32.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: But there's real consequences here.
[42:33.670 --> 42:41.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is going to very seriously cause our allies to reconsider sharing sensitive and classified information with us.
[42:41.670 --> 42:44.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, you have to lead from the top down.
[42:44.610 --> 42:53.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: And this is not the first time that the Trump administration or its people have made massively significant intelligence or security blunders.
[42:54.910 --> 42:56.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Think about what has happened.
[42:56.450 --> 42:59.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: We've forgotten what happened during the first administration and afterwards.
[43:00.290 --> 43:05.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hundreds of classified documents were found at Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort.
[43:05.310 --> 43:07.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Some of them in a shower.
[43:07.710 --> 43:11.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: Potentially accessible to lots of unauthorized individuals.
[43:12.730 --> 43:14.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is not a one-off, right?
[43:15.250 --> 43:32.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Remember way back in the first administration too, when Trump's attorneys were overheard discussing various investigations into the administration by a New York Times reporter who was sitting, I think, at a restaurant next to them.
[43:33.850 --> 43:34.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: Kyle, go ahead.
[43:35.790 --> 43:56.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, as I'm sitting here thinking about some of the other aspects of this that are really interesting, I will point out that a lot of the critiques and, well, let's just say there's so many people just clouding on these people and they're like, they're like,
[43:56.770 --> 43:58.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: hold my beer, OPSEC.
[43:58.290 --> 44:15.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I will say that in contrast to other administrations, let's say the last one, the kinds of jokes and media around this are very playful and very hilarious.
[44:15.950 --> 44:29.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'd say much less conspiratorial because you don't need any kind of crazy harebrained conspiracies to absolutely assail them just for how goofy this whole thing is.
[44:30.010 --> 44:35.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I do want to suggest to our listeners enjoy the playfulness of it.
[44:36.030 --> 44:54.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: That ridicule is a loud speech and I think as long as it is not like really dark and conspiratorial and just really ugly as it has been, I think it's welcome.
[44:54.990 --> 45:00.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm really interested in what kinds of, what ways people are thinking about this.
[45:00.530 --> 45:04.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is going to be very hard for this administration to live down.
[45:04.290 --> 45:07.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: They've basically made bombing Yemen famous.
[45:08.270 --> 45:13.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like, that was something that would just go on and no one would really talk about it.
[45:13.410 --> 45:14.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Be like, what's going on in Yemen?
[45:14.890 --> 45:16.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's an interesting point.
[45:16.330 --> 45:16.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: doing?
[45:16.950 --> 45:19.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is going to be so in the forefront.
[45:19.950 --> 45:31.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, now you have the rebels there or whatever adversary there coming back and responding and attacking our flotillas and stuff.
[45:32.690 --> 45:38.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: it's elevated this whole conflict way above the surface.
[45:38.250 --> 45:43.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: And the other thing I just wanted to add was we've laid it all out.
[45:43.150 --> 45:43.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: There you have it, everybody.
[45:44.050 --> 45:46.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, a lot of people have been talking about this whole thing.
[45:47.150 --> 45:56.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's interesting what the ways that they speak about this politically, the leveraging they're trying to do.
[45:56.450 --> 46:24.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's very instructive and it speaks to jokes aside, the myriad of ways this is a revealing compromise of their in communications, the ways they do it, just the use of signal alone I think opens up a really big, I mean, it makes signal a target in ways it probably wasn't before.
[46:24.710 --> 46:25.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: And this was...
[46:25.650 --> 46:36.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: And their excuse I think now is like, oh, this is just to say when we're going to go meet at the water cooler and have a coffee break, or when we'll be at the meeting, or when the bagels are going to arrive, or whatever.
[46:37.970 --> 46:39.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's not how they're using it clearly.
[46:40.130 --> 47:00.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's elevated signal, and the use of these tools, it's also, as we pointed out, laid out the avoidance, this as an avoidance strategy to have any kind of record of their discussions and planning, maybe not even in the immediate, but in the future, as we said,
[47:00.790 --> 47:17.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: for FOIA and other national archiving purposes, which is traditionally been something that was respected, clearly that's not the case with this administration, it's only been confirmed in this incident.
[47:17.930 --> 47:38.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: So those are some things I'm really interested in, and just the projecting of like, how far out there planning, how they're using the media, not entertainment, but like news and the cycles of things, how to, the way they're using messaging to shape public opinion around their actions and excuse their transgressions.
[47:39.030 --> 47:53.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: I found it really interesting that it's quite possible more people have learned about the bombing of Yemen, not from the bombing of Yemen, but from this, from this signal, scandal, signal gate, I guess they'll call it.
[47:53.290 --> 47:59.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: But the thing that really is telling is how they own it, or how they refuse to own it.
[47:59.170 --> 48:02.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: They will not admit that they did anything wrong.
[48:02.670 --> 48:07.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: They will mock the people who asked them questions.
[48:07.210 --> 48:12.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: They will mock the person who they included on the damn chat in the first place.
[48:12.750 --> 48:14.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: No request of Fizz.
[48:14.330 --> 48:23.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: They just did that, and they're going to try and trash a well-respected journalist who just was receiving their errant messaging.
[48:23.910 --> 48:35.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: And basically, you're seeing the MAGA followers and Trump's little group basically saying that there's nothing to see here.
[48:35.770 --> 48:36.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: This wasn't a big deal.
[48:37.030 --> 48:38.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: This isn't classified.
[48:38.390 --> 48:39.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: And of course, we all know differently.
[48:40.030 --> 48:43.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: We all know this most definitely was a very big deal.
[48:45.910 --> 48:56.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: I feel for the people that have taken an oath to put their lives on the line for us and for these people at their command.
[48:57.290 --> 48:58.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's embarrassing.
[48:58.410 --> 49:08.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: And all your serious obligations as a defender of this country and our ideals, this is the crew that's going to send you into harm's way.
[49:08.910 --> 49:10.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it sure seems that way.
[49:10.670 --> 49:12.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: And don't say we weren't warned.
[49:12.270 --> 49:17.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Any final words from Signal-land before somebody intrudes on our conversation?
[49:17.770 --> 49:18.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead, Alex.
[49:19.370 --> 49:31.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Before I start to break up here, I think what really matters here in the context of discussing classified information, sensitive information like this, the setting really, really matters here.
[49:31.370 --> 49:35.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: For anybody who's a member of the intelligence community, it's like being in an episode of Severance.
[49:35.970 --> 49:39.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: As soon as you walk out the door of the CIA, we're...
[49:40.510 --> 49:42.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Rob, Gila, any final words?
[49:43.030 --> 49:46.510]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we're currently clean on OPSEC, and I'm thrilled to say that.
[49:47.590 --> 49:49.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, let's all chip in.
[49:49.890 --> 49:51.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe we can get Alex an Internet connection someday.
[49:52.270 --> 49:54.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it must be Heathrow or something.
[49:54.250 --> 49:55.390]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, I don't know.
[49:56.410 --> 50:10.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, we are going to continue this conversation over on YouTube, and Channel2600 starts at 8 o'clock, and you can write to us, oth@2600.com.
[50:10.870 --> 50:16.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Please keep paying attention, keep letting us know what you hear, and we'll try to do the same.
[50:16.830 --> 50:17.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good night.
[50:17.530 --> 50:18.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: See ya.
[54:24.380 --> 54:27.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: And welcome to everybody here on YouTube.
[54:28.340 --> 54:29.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is Overtime.
[54:31.000 --> 54:32.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: Emmanuel, I think I made it.
[54:32.260 --> 54:32.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: Kyle, did you make it?
[54:33.520 --> 54:36.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I more than made it.
[54:36.080 --> 54:38.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I see Rob, you there?
[54:38.880 --> 54:40.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: I am there and here.
[54:41.340 --> 54:41.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: Gila?
[54:43.360 --> 54:44.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, there's Alex.
[54:45.280 --> 54:45.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: Gila, are you there?
[54:46.060 --> 54:46.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm here.
[54:46.960 --> 54:48.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: I am here.
[54:48.640 --> 54:49.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[54:49.100 --> 54:57.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, we are here, we are, we're also coming through on YouTube a little delayed, which is why they're in my headphones.
[54:57.940 --> 55:00.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, we're always delayed on YouTube.
[55:00.200 --> 55:01.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: YouTube is well behind the world.
[55:02.640 --> 55:11.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: It is true, so that does get a little confusing when you hear talking to us, but you hear just beginning things and it gets very complicated.
[55:11.500 --> 55:13.560]  [SPEAKER_01]: But, hello, hi.
[55:14.020 --> 55:15.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: How do we have negative viewers?
[55:15.660 --> 55:16.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have less than zero?
[55:17.120 --> 55:17.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: What?
[55:17.820 --> 55:19.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I must have misread that.
[55:19.480 --> 55:19.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hold on.
[55:20.540 --> 55:24.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: I found our viewers usually are a pretty positive bunch, kind of a beat.
[55:24.520 --> 55:27.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, it wouldn't be the first time we broke YouTube.
[55:29.740 --> 55:30.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: are we on YouTube?
[55:31.040 --> 55:32.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: We can attest to that.
[55:32.460 --> 55:32.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: We are, yes.
[55:32.980 --> 55:33.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, good.
[55:34.400 --> 55:39.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, boy, that was something, what happened.
[55:39.560 --> 55:42.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: What do you think is going to happen next?
[55:42.220 --> 55:45.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: Are people going to resign or is it just going to get swept under the rug?
[55:45.460 --> 55:48.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you know, Democrats have absolutely no power.
[55:49.160 --> 55:51.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: They keep bailing, they keep giving up.
[55:51.680 --> 56:01.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: so I hope they have it in them to actually pursue this and maybe maybe even some Republicans might have some, you know, some character and say this is unacceptable.
[56:03.080 --> 56:11.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: Apparently, the editor of the National Review Online is calling for Hegseth to be bounced.
[56:13.420 --> 56:14.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: So...
[56:14.020 --> 56:15.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Say what you will.
[56:15.480 --> 56:15.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: 86.
[56:16.860 --> 56:22.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Say what you will and that is not a pun about George Will who was a big part of National Review.
[56:23.060 --> 56:25.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: But say what you will about National Review.
[56:25.180 --> 56:27.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: They do have integrity sometimes.
[56:27.580 --> 56:28.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes.
[56:29.720 --> 56:31.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: Stop clocks and everything.
[56:31.200 --> 56:36.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: Conservative publication, but, you know, sometimes they actually criticize themselves and that's a good thing to say.
[56:39.060 --> 56:44.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Also, do you want to say hello to the 23 people who are streaming with us right now?
[56:44.920 --> 56:45.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: Individually?
[56:46.960 --> 56:47.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[56:47.680 --> 56:48.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, it's 30.
[56:49.000 --> 56:50.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: I have to go around the room.
[56:50.480 --> 56:51.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: It went from 23 to 30.
[56:51.860 --> 56:52.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what?
[56:53.320 --> 56:55.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: you know, I can do that, I guess, but...
[56:55.540 --> 56:57.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Emmanuel, here's the thing.
[56:57.260 --> 57:00.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if Romper Room was a thing for you when you were growing up.
[57:00.860 --> 57:05.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's funny because I was actually listening to some old shows and we were talking about Romper Room.
[57:05.920 --> 57:14.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Romper Room and Sonny Fox and Sandy Becker and you were talking about how I feel like Dorothy and Wizard of Oz at the end.
[57:14.260 --> 57:26.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: You were there and you were saying that they would never see you and you were waiting for them to acknowledge your birthday and I was like, well, did your mother send in a postcard at least?
[57:27.040 --> 57:28.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: How are they supposed to know you were there?
[57:29.260 --> 57:31.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: But what's new with Romper Room?
[57:32.000 --> 57:32.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's what I'm saying.
[57:33.020 --> 57:36.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think Romper Room is on the air anymore, but that was the thing, right?
[57:36.300 --> 57:40.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Like Miss Molly would say everybody's name, she never saw me.
[57:40.860 --> 57:43.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, she didn't see me either.
[57:43.760 --> 57:45.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, I don't know if we had the same Romper Room.
[57:45.840 --> 57:47.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Was Romper Room regional?
[57:47.740 --> 57:49.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: Or was it a national Romper Room?
[57:49.680 --> 58:01.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, it was functionally regional, but Rob and I have learned that we had the same Romper Room because WOR Channel 9 was airing in my part of the country as well.
[58:02.160 --> 58:10.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, well that right there tells me that you're well behind my Romper Room because we didn't have stations airing in other cities when I was growing up.
[58:10.240 --> 58:12.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: We just had the stations that were in our city.
[58:12.560 --> 58:17.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: So we had Channel 9, WOR, wasn't WWOR, none of that crap.
[58:18.380 --> 58:20.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't know where the Romper Room was.
[58:20.660 --> 58:21.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what Romper Room means.
[58:21.960 --> 58:23.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't really know anything about it.
[58:25.280 --> 58:28.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, why are we talking about this?
[58:30.960 --> 58:35.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: because we were talking about individually greeting the 32 people who are here with us now.
[58:35.480 --> 58:36.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm not going to do that.
[58:36.540 --> 58:37.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, hi everybody.
[58:37.940 --> 58:39.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's good to see you all.
[58:41.380 --> 58:43.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Our magic mirror has a busted modem.
[58:43.660 --> 58:45.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's been a long day.
[58:45.640 --> 58:47.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: A magic mirror needs a little windex.
[58:49.120 --> 58:52.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: Speaking of long days, Alex, I know you've had a long day because you're over in a different part of the
[58:58.420 --> 58:58.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: place.
[58:59.120 --> 58:59.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: I know.
[58:59.940 --> 59:08.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I'll be back in New York tomorrow and I will be back home, I think, and hopefully not traveling for about a month or so.
[59:08.880 --> 59:13.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Although, I don't know, I might be going to D.C., but that's at least in the same time zone.
[59:13.600 --> 59:16.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: You will somehow find the one place that doesn't have Internet in D.C.
[59:17.080 --> 59:17.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: and talk to us more.
[59:19.100 --> 59:21.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, this is really crappy tonight.
[59:21.520 --> 59:22.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know what's going on.
[59:29.120 --> 59:31.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Some people have to class it up here, though.
[59:32.380 --> 59:38.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, continue saying whatever you were trying to say at the end of the last show and we can maybe take phone
[59:59.100 --> 01:00:00.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: that came through loud and clear, though.
[01:00:02.800 --> 01:00:09.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe if you just cuss all the time, the power of the cuss word will drive you through.
[01:00:10.020 --> 01:00:10.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, exactly.
[01:00:11.040 --> 01:00:12.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: It probably will.
[01:00:13.020 --> 01:00:14.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I won't even try.
[01:00:14.620 --> 01:00:16.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think we should just take some phone calls.
[01:00:16.620 --> 01:00:18.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: I really do want to troubleshoot this.
[01:00:18.980 --> 01:00:22.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we're watching you and we're seeing you freeze and we're all laughing and pointing.
[01:00:22.540 --> 01:00:22.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's great.
[01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:24.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: But we don't need to see you.
[01:00:24.520 --> 01:00:25.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: We just need audio.
[01:00:25.460 --> 01:00:30.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: Are you saying that you don't have an Internet connection that can simply carry a damn audio signal?
[01:00:31.520 --> 01:00:34.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, I think it's just spotty.
[01:00:34.500 --> 01:00:37.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think it's dropping packets and things is what
[01:00:58.420 --> 01:00:59.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: you have to say.
[01:00:59.920 --> 01:01:00.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: I want people to hear you.
[01:01:01.800 --> 01:01:03.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I appreciate that.
[01:01:03.520 --> 01:01:04.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it was really annoying.
[01:01:05.200 --> 01:01:10.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: And today I think was particularly important to get points across.
[01:01:10.820 --> 01:01:13.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is a really, really interesting story.
[01:01:13.840 --> 01:01:29.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think in situations like this, Alex, not that I don't enjoy looking at your face on our video call here, but I think maybe if things become too much of a problem, you could shut your video off, leave your sound on, and use less bandwidth, and maybe then we'll lose you less.
[01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:39.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I was thinking that too, but I think it's just a matter of the network dropping devices and then reconnecting quickly.
[01:01:39.500 --> 01:01:40.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think that's what's happening.
[01:01:41.340 --> 01:01:54.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not to open up this too much technically, but wouldn't this also be an effect of Signal using a little bit more substantial encryption so it does take a little bit more bandwidth.
[01:01:55.220 --> 01:02:01.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: It could be our end as well, more so than other platforms we used in the past.
[01:02:01.840 --> 01:02:19.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't even know what tin cans and twine Skype used, but I will say that the video resolution for everybody is actually a little bit lower than ordinary picture would have been.
[01:02:20.020 --> 01:02:28.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it could be the confluence of all of our bandwidth plus whatever kind of bandwidth the encryption takes for these kinds of calls.
[01:02:28.560 --> 01:02:30.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: Do we have to be encrypted on Signal?
[01:02:30.280 --> 01:02:31.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Can we unencrypt?
[01:02:31.460 --> 01:02:33.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think it's supposed to work that way.
[01:02:33.700 --> 01:02:35.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: But I want to be in clear text.
[01:02:35.900 --> 01:02:36.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: I do.
[01:02:36.760 --> 01:02:38.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't want secrets.
[01:02:38.680 --> 01:02:39.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: I want everything to be out and open.
[01:02:39.800 --> 01:02:41.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think that's just radio.
[01:02:41.580 --> 01:02:43.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're on the radio, or we were on the radio.
[01:02:43.660 --> 01:02:46.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're not trying to encrypt, so I don't know.
[01:02:46.500 --> 01:02:48.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: If that solves the problem, that would be cool.
[01:02:48.040 --> 01:02:54.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: Alex, you keep turning your video on and off, so maybe if you stop doing that and just go with audio, let's test Rob's theory.
[01:02:55.620 --> 01:02:55.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[01:02:56.320 --> 01:02:57.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to not do that.
[01:02:57.460 --> 01:02:58.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: You dropped again.
[01:02:58.400 --> 01:03:01.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: You were just staring at me dully because you weren't actually there.
[01:03:01.960 --> 01:03:02.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[01:03:02.920 --> 01:03:06.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I'm just going to keep talking now for a little while.
[01:03:06.060 --> 01:03:07.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Be extra combative.
[01:03:07.360 --> 01:03:11.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, let's just say something important because that's what seems to trigger it.
[01:03:11.880 --> 01:03:12.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[01:03:12.300 --> 01:03:16.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's usually what happens when we're dealing with that.
[01:03:16.620 --> 01:03:19.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: So you've decided discovered the meaning of life, Alex.
[01:03:19.580 --> 01:03:20.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: Do go on.
[01:03:21.280 --> 01:03:23.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you know, other than 42, right?
[01:03:23.420 --> 01:03:24.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Life, what was it?
[01:03:25.180 --> 01:03:25.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good one.
[01:03:25.560 --> 01:03:26.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Didn't see that coming.
[01:03:27.200 --> 01:03:29.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's, that's, you know, that was it, right?
[01:03:29.200 --> 01:03:30.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, of course, right?
[01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:30.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's it.
[01:03:30.860 --> 01:03:31.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's it.
[01:03:31.840 --> 01:03:38.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: When you were approached by the, the God particle, what kind of questions, what was, what was the inquiry like?
[01:03:39.360 --> 01:03:41.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: And for those who don't know the God particle, you have
[01:03:47.400 --> 01:03:49.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: a minute because he hasn't done that yet tonight.
[01:03:49.680 --> 01:03:49.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: A minute?
[01:03:50.120 --> 01:03:51.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're supposed to interrupt me, Alex.
[01:03:51.840 --> 01:03:52.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: Go ahead, Alex.
[01:03:52.360 --> 01:03:55.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: What am I going to talk about for a full-on minute here?
[01:03:55.500 --> 01:04:03.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think what I was actually saying at the end, though, was that the context in which you receive and interact with classified information really matters.
[01:04:03.800 --> 01:04:11.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: That anybody who's in the intelligence community, it's almost like an episode of severance, right?
[01:04:11.680 --> 01:04:19.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: When you leave the CIA facility or you leave the NSA facility, you do not talk about the things that you were working on at work.
[01:04:19.340 --> 01:04:22.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: You don't address any kind of classified...
[01:04:25.620 --> 01:04:29.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: Are you pausing for thought there or did you really freeze on audio?
[01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:31.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, I think I froze.
[01:04:31.600 --> 01:04:32.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now we know.
[01:04:33.160 --> 01:04:33.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now we know.
[01:04:33.960 --> 01:04:34.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, we tried.
[01:04:34.980 --> 01:04:41.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's like bursts of connectivity and then it drops a little bit and then comes back.
[01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:43.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's definitely waves.
[01:04:43.320 --> 01:04:46.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is why I like wired connections more than wireless connections.
[01:04:47.320 --> 01:04:48.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I have a...
[01:04:48.760 --> 01:04:50.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: I can do a test.
[01:04:50.180 --> 01:04:56.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe what I should do is actually tether to my phone and that might actually be better than the shitty network.
[01:04:57.100 --> 01:04:58.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, so you're on someone else's.
[01:04:58.480 --> 01:05:00.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, yeah, maybe your service is better.
[01:05:00.520 --> 01:05:02.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, do you have bars on your phone?
[01:05:04.380 --> 01:05:05.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, call them pubs over there.
[01:05:07.280 --> 01:05:08.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: Those get...
[01:05:08.040 --> 01:05:08.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[01:05:08.580 --> 01:05:09.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you, Rob.
[01:05:09.040 --> 01:05:10.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: That was funny, Rob.
[01:05:10.440 --> 01:05:15.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: The entertainment never stops around here, but I am trying to get to the bottom of a serious matter.
[01:05:15.220 --> 01:05:16.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Do you have signal?
[01:05:16.480 --> 01:05:17.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have a phone call.
[01:05:17.060 --> 01:05:18.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't mean the signal that we use.
[01:05:18.720 --> 01:05:19.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, God.
[01:05:19.280 --> 01:05:20.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: What a stupid name.
[01:05:21.120 --> 01:05:21.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: I do.
[01:05:21.920 --> 01:05:22.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: I do.
[01:05:22.560 --> 01:05:26.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: What is it with companies naming themselves things that are hard to differentiate?
[01:05:27.120 --> 01:05:27.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Signal X.
[01:05:28.300 --> 01:05:31.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: You can't find anything anymore because you keep getting the wrong results.
[01:05:32.700 --> 01:05:34.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, I'm going to try to connect to my phone.
[01:05:34.720 --> 01:05:35.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[01:05:35.240 --> 01:05:37.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I'm probably going to lose you while that connection happens.
[01:05:37.400 --> 01:05:38.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have a phone call.
[01:05:38.120 --> 01:05:39.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is an adventure.
[01:05:39.280 --> 01:05:40.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know who the phone call is.
[01:05:40.400 --> 01:05:41.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's going to be Rebel.
[01:05:41.820 --> 01:05:43.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: He's going to put us on hold.
[01:05:43.260 --> 01:05:44.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: He's going to do all kinds of experiments.
[01:05:45.900 --> 01:05:46.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, I don't know.
[01:05:46.800 --> 01:05:47.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: You don't think it's Rebel?
[01:05:47.640 --> 01:05:48.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it might be Rebel.
[01:05:49.320 --> 01:05:52.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're not going to give out any information, but caller, please hold on.
[01:05:52.780 --> 01:05:53.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to get to you in a moment.
[01:05:53.900 --> 01:05:58.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're just seeing what happens to Alex, who either is or isn't moving.
[01:05:58.280 --> 01:05:59.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: I can't really tell.
[01:05:59.300 --> 01:06:00.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think he is moving.
[01:06:00.240 --> 01:06:01.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: Just sitting very, very still.
[01:06:02.500 --> 01:06:04.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alex is a man in control of his own destiny.
[01:06:04.460 --> 01:06:04.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no, he's moving.
[01:06:04.860 --> 01:06:05.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: Look at that.
[01:06:05.340 --> 01:06:05.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: He moved his head.
[01:06:06.920 --> 01:06:07.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[01:06:07.360 --> 01:06:09.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, how are you connected now, Alex?
[01:06:09.660 --> 01:06:10.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Or are you connected?
[01:06:10.980 --> 01:06:14.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it failed to connect to my phone, so...
[01:06:14.040 --> 01:06:15.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: It failed to connect to your...
[01:06:15.800 --> 01:06:16.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: How do you...
[01:06:16.720 --> 01:06:17.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, fine.
[01:06:19.120 --> 01:06:20.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's 2025, you know.
[01:06:22.340 --> 01:06:24.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: Don't know how you can't connect to your phone.
[01:06:24.660 --> 01:06:25.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's take this call.
[01:06:25.780 --> 01:06:26.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening.
[01:06:26.480 --> 01:06:27.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're on Overtime.
[01:06:28.980 --> 01:06:30.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, Mr. Goldstein.
[01:06:30.220 --> 01:06:30.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: How are you doing today?
[01:06:30.900 --> 01:06:31.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good.
[01:06:31.080 --> 01:06:31.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: How are you?
[01:06:32.900 --> 01:06:34.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm doing fine, man.
[01:06:34.680 --> 01:06:38.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm actually multitasking, and I said I have to call you guys to find out.
[01:06:39.260 --> 01:06:46.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's about something that I received through WhatsApp, and I just wanted to find out for you guys to think if it's a scan, if I should leave it alone.
[01:06:47.080 --> 01:06:48.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, tell us what you got.
[01:06:48.720 --> 01:06:48.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[01:06:49.560 --> 01:06:51.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: Have you guys heard of eClincher?
[01:06:53.040 --> 01:06:53.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: eClincher?
[01:06:54.980 --> 01:07:02.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: They say it's a data promotion platform that strategically partners with app enterprises and helps apps improve their data, et cetera, et cetera.
[01:07:03.380 --> 01:07:04.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: Never heard of it.
[01:07:04.180 --> 01:07:06.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, it's a long past, and I don't want to read the whole thing.
[01:07:06.540 --> 01:07:07.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: I would stay away.
[01:07:07.460 --> 01:07:11.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: I would stay very far away from any unsolicited messages from WhatsApp.
[01:07:11.300 --> 01:07:14.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, if that came to you without you asking for it, I don't think that's good.
[01:07:14.920 --> 01:07:27.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're better off figuring out some other service on your own, like look it up independently if you're concerned about, like PageRank or your search engine optimization or anything they're offering, you could probably do better just researching on your own.
[01:07:27.940 --> 01:07:29.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I've never answered an ad like that.
[01:07:30.560 --> 01:07:36.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, actually, it's actually a money-making opportunity.
[01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:37.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: What it is is...
[01:07:37.200 --> 01:07:38.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right there.
[01:07:38.500 --> 01:07:42.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry, but when you say that, right away, I know it's a scam.
[01:07:43.160 --> 01:07:44.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, but check this out.
[01:07:44.420 --> 01:07:44.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Let me finish, though.
[01:07:45.860 --> 01:07:49.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Basically, you click like 35 times out of 35.
[01:07:50.540 --> 01:07:53.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: And there's all types of different apps and stuff.
[01:07:54.400 --> 01:07:57.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: And they have something called a combination package.
[01:07:58.140 --> 01:08:03.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: In fact, each of the actions you do is considered a task.
[01:08:03.760 --> 01:08:19.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the combination package means, like, if you click along the way and you stop at like 20 clicks out of 35 and you can't do no more, it's so you have a combination package and that you have to, you know, you have to go into Cash App and purchase Bitcoin.
[01:08:20.300 --> 01:08:26.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: But when I first signed up, the person, my contact on WhatsApp, because they have a community.
[01:08:26.600 --> 01:08:29.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's a whole bunch of people that's part of the E-Clinch community.
[01:08:30.460 --> 01:08:31.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: The E-Clinch community?
[01:08:32.600 --> 01:08:33.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: E-Clincher.
[01:08:33.680 --> 01:08:35.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: E-C-L-I-C.
[01:08:36.920 --> 01:08:37.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[01:08:37.580 --> 01:08:37.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[01:08:37.820 --> 01:08:38.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, we're listening.
[01:08:38.440 --> 01:08:38.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're listening.
[01:08:39.300 --> 01:08:39.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[01:08:39.580 --> 01:08:39.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[01:08:40.240 --> 01:08:41.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: I was trying to spell it.
[01:08:41.600 --> 01:08:43.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, E-Clincher, basically.
[01:08:43.780 --> 01:08:49.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: And, um, this person, they put the money up for you and actually I made a little profit.
[01:08:50.860 --> 01:08:57.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: But when they, you know, when they said I, you know, when they, you know, when they said I had made a comp, you know, I, I got a bonus or something like that.
[01:08:58.900 --> 01:09:01.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: They wanted me to put it, um, $130.
[01:09:01.700 --> 01:09:02.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[01:09:03.120 --> 01:09:06.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, again, uh, none of this sounds legit.
[01:09:06.880 --> 01:09:14.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, seriously, you, just to get disentangled from this, like, just disassociating yourself, you're probably going to have to give up an organ or something.
[01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:18.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, and also, you know, you will, uh, That's how they pull you in.
[01:09:19.220 --> 01:09:27.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: You'll, you know, get some kind of gain, but then you'll want to put it back in and that's when you'll realize the loss and there's no coming back from that.
[01:09:27.500 --> 01:09:32.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, at this stage, this early stage, I would just, you know, uh, warn other people about it.
[01:09:32.940 --> 01:09:34.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I think you've warned a lot of people tonight.
[01:09:37.360 --> 01:09:38.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, okay.
[01:09:38.480 --> 01:09:38.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[01:09:38.860 --> 01:09:42.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: But yeah, you guys, yeah, you guys, I mean, you guys, you guys have heard of it.
[01:09:42.860 --> 01:09:44.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: So we haven't heard of it.
[01:09:44.320 --> 01:09:50.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: We haven't heard of it, but we've, we've heard the wording and the general tone and that's just alarm bells going off.
[01:09:50.740 --> 01:09:50.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:09:50.880 --> 01:09:53.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Cause it's like they want to, it's, it's pulling you in.
[01:09:57.020 --> 01:10:05.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like get you comfortable doing like moving, moving money around or using your cash or, uh, uh, transferring things into crypto.
[01:10:05.880 --> 01:10:24.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: It could change very quickly to where you do something that seems like, Oh yeah, this is legit, but you're doing something that is actually compromising you in a way like you've been tricked or like set up to think it's, it's friendly and it's all good.
[01:10:24.520 --> 01:10:28.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you're, you're just, it's all worth it, but then they pull it out from under you.
[01:10:28.600 --> 01:10:34.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like definitely if you are using this in good faith, like be extremely cautious.
[01:10:35.120 --> 01:10:38.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you're just trying to get us to talk about it and sell it too.
[01:10:38.800 --> 01:10:40.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, nice one.
[01:10:40.200 --> 01:10:40.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, I don't think so.
[01:10:40.860 --> 01:10:47.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: But we'll also definitely like have people write in, like if anybody's heard of this, please write in oth@2600.com.
[01:10:47.860 --> 01:10:53.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'd love to hear if you, if you're familiar with this, if it is legit or something, please tell us so we can share with the listener.
[01:10:53.260 --> 01:10:54.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: And Rob has something to add.
[01:10:54.240 --> 01:10:54.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead.
[01:10:55.220 --> 01:10:55.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[01:10:55.980 --> 01:10:59.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: I, I just, just looking eClincher up.
[01:10:59.900 --> 01:11:01.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Of course, I don't, I haven't used this thing.
[01:11:02.120 --> 01:11:03.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't actually know anything about it.
[01:11:03.580 --> 01:11:10.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: I can't say for certain one way or another, whether it's any kind of legit, but I will say a huge red flag I'm seeing is putting out a web search for it.
[01:11:11.140 --> 01:11:15.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: I am scrolling past past pages and pages and pages of results.
[01:11:15.220 --> 01:11:18.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: And none of these are on any reputable sites.
[01:11:18.680 --> 01:11:22.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, about 99% of them are on eClincher's own site.
[01:11:22.240 --> 01:11:24.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: So nobody's talking about them except themselves.
[01:11:24.760 --> 01:11:33.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, I think when things are trustworthy, you will see other people out there talking about them on like verifiable, um, human powered websites.
[01:11:33.400 --> 01:11:34.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm not seeing that here.
[01:11:34.580 --> 01:11:40.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe we should contact them and, uh, tell them how they can get search engine optimization from us.
[01:11:40.740 --> 01:11:42.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's an opportunity.
[01:11:43.560 --> 01:11:55.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: And the only thing, the only reason why I brought up is because I'm in, you know, I'm in my late forties and I remember when I was in college, we had, you know, we had, um, we have, you know, these term, it seems like, um, Amway and quick star and the American communication network.
[01:11:55.600 --> 01:11:55.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Totally.
[01:11:56.080 --> 01:11:56.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good old days.
[01:11:56.860 --> 01:11:56.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[01:11:57.820 --> 01:11:59.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: Prime member and Prime America.
[01:11:59.260 --> 01:12:00.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: That was like the last one.
[01:12:00.280 --> 01:12:02.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, you know, yeah, now it's digital.
[01:12:03.780 --> 01:12:04.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, exactly.
[01:12:05.080 --> 01:12:05.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.
[01:12:05.600 --> 01:12:16.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you're insulating yourself and you're just aware, just be very aware what you're, what you're giving up and, you know, how it's playing out and, uh, tell other people about it.
[01:12:17.060 --> 01:12:27.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, like you are here if, uh, if things don't turn out well, or if, or if they do, I mean, I, maybe you are putting this onto something, but we, we have late breaking, uh, news from Gila.
[01:12:27.680 --> 01:12:27.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead.
[01:12:29.480 --> 01:12:30.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, Gila, you're muted.
[01:12:30.460 --> 01:12:31.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[01:12:31.000 --> 01:12:31.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: I muted you.
[01:12:31.880 --> 01:12:32.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead.
[01:12:32.960 --> 01:12:38.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was going to say I didn't think, um, 3.1 stars on Glassdoor.
[01:12:38.400 --> 01:12:42.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: So this is not, it doesn't seem externally reputable.
[01:12:42.600 --> 01:12:46.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: And also, um, internally people are not super psyched out about it.
[01:12:47.100 --> 01:12:55.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to attempt to read that username, but thank you to the, um, person who shared the 3.1 stars on Glassdoor.
[01:12:56.000 --> 01:12:56.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[01:12:56.520 --> 01:12:57.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: We hope that helps.
[01:12:57.620 --> 01:12:58.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[01:12:58.520 --> 01:12:58.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[01:12:58.880 --> 01:12:59.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let me let somebody else call.
[01:12:59.720 --> 01:12:59.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[01:12:59.940 --> 01:13:00.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for your call.
[01:13:00.680 --> 01:13:01.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: Be well.
[01:13:01.700 --> 01:13:03.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, these things are very common.
[01:13:03.960 --> 01:13:10.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we get mail like this all the time, but we're kind of like trained to just ignore certain things and not even realize they came in.
[01:13:10.480 --> 01:13:11.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was going to say this earlier.
[01:13:11.400 --> 01:13:17.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: when you talked about Venmo, I was like, people, you know, this is how I use Venmo.
[01:13:17.940 --> 01:13:19.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't use that.
[01:13:19.160 --> 01:13:19.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:13:19.640 --> 01:13:21.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's how, that's how, that's my Venmo interaction.
[01:13:22.120 --> 01:13:23.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's how social I am on Venmo.
[01:13:23.700 --> 01:13:24.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Social payments.
[01:13:24.560 --> 01:13:24.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:13:24.760 --> 01:13:25.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't do that.
[01:13:25.560 --> 01:13:26.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's how I use it.
[01:13:26.560 --> 01:13:31.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: I cannot believe hundreds of this man's, like, contacts.
[01:13:31.120 --> 01:13:31.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's the thing right there.
[01:13:31.880 --> 01:13:42.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: If that's, if that was real, I'm like, what is your social life like where you are paying for things with this, this particular piece of software?
[01:13:42.460 --> 01:13:44.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like, that's fine.
[01:13:44.080 --> 01:13:55.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you're like a freshman in college or something, or like, I don't know, you want to play around with it in a very tight network of people, but just willy-nilly like, oh yeah, Venmo everywhere.
[01:13:55.380 --> 01:13:55.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Everybody.
[01:13:56.000 --> 01:13:56.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Everybody.
[01:13:56.700 --> 01:13:57.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are you kidding me?
[01:13:58.060 --> 01:13:58.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know it works.
[01:13:59.120 --> 01:13:59.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, people use it.
[01:14:00.100 --> 01:14:01.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: It sounds dodgy, but it does work.
[01:14:01.600 --> 01:14:18.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, if you have a situation where just having someone's name potentially opens up a door where you can see all their contacts and then be able to contact those people, you know, I've heard of people sending, you know, 25 cents to celebrities and getting the celebrity to answer them for some reason,
[01:14:18.520 --> 01:14:22.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: and now you have your foot in the door with that, you know, that's not a good system.
[01:14:22.460 --> 01:14:24.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's not how it's supposed to work at all.
[01:14:25.280 --> 01:14:27.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't care what benefit, it just...
[01:14:27.300 --> 01:14:27.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sorry.
[01:14:27.900 --> 01:14:28.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead, Gila.
[01:14:29.360 --> 01:14:30.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: So two things.
[01:14:30.440 --> 01:14:37.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, Venmo always made me very nervous because you could see everybody's activity, and that just always creeped me out real bad.
[01:14:37.660 --> 01:14:51.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: Our buddy Tim in Connecticut coming in clutch with some information saying regional beginnings, Romper Room originated as a regional television shows across Canada with the first show airing at CKLW-TV in Windsor, Ontario in 1924.
[01:14:51.460 --> 01:14:59.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: I used to listen to CKLW radio on my AM radio, and they would play big band, they'd play all kinds of interesting music, and that was one of the first things I did as a kid.
[01:15:00.440 --> 01:15:05.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, Romper Room, I'd like to know where it was taped in New York, because that was a big part of my life.
[01:15:05.220 --> 01:15:08.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't remember any of it, but I do know that was a major thing.
[01:15:09.380 --> 01:15:10.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Anybody remember Mr. Dress Up?
[01:15:12.460 --> 01:15:14.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, none of you do, because it's Canadian.
[01:15:14.460 --> 01:15:19.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: And Mr. Dress Up was like their Mr. Rogers, and he was really awesome.
[01:15:19.460 --> 01:15:28.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: He'd dress up in all these different outfits throughout a half hour, and I think everybody in Canada knows Mr. Dress Up, even though he hasn't been on the air since he died, I guess.
[01:15:28.680 --> 01:15:30.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: But probably before that, too.
[01:15:30.360 --> 01:15:31.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: A little bit before that.
[01:15:32.540 --> 01:15:33.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm unfamiliar.
[01:15:33.360 --> 01:15:34.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think I saw one episode of that.
[01:15:34.700 --> 01:15:37.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm actually still ranting about Venmo in my head.
[01:15:37.140 --> 01:15:54.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like, sometimes people will say, like, oh, you take Venmo, like, for buying a back issue or something, or like, in certain situations, and I have this sense of, like, anxiety or like, FOMO or something, like, oh, maybe we should, maybe... and then it completely dissolves.
[01:15:54.840 --> 01:15:55.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm like, no.
[01:15:56.400 --> 01:15:57.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, we have a phone call.
[01:15:57.700 --> 01:15:58.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, good evening.
[01:15:58.320 --> 01:15:59.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:15:59.860 --> 01:16:00.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead.
[01:16:00.940 --> 01:16:03.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hello, it's luRaichu from Washington, D.C.
[01:16:03.640 --> 01:16:04.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, how's it going?
[01:16:04.640 --> 01:16:05.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: Creator of...
[01:16:05.060 --> 01:16:07.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, yeah, I'm the one.
[01:16:07.140 --> 01:16:09.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: Who did Gay Furry Hackers.
[01:16:09.480 --> 01:16:11.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: You created Gay Furry Hackers.
[01:16:11.080 --> 01:16:12.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wow, we've talked about this.
[01:16:12.440 --> 01:16:15.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I wish more people would hop onto it.
[01:16:16.020 --> 01:16:18.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's not something that really took off.
[01:16:18.660 --> 01:16:24.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: I was the only one to create a quote-unquote musical interpretation of that.
[01:16:24.660 --> 01:16:27.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, yeah, I mean, the samples up there, there's a whole... there's so many decades of shows out there for people to sample.
[01:16:32.320 --> 01:16:32.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's true.
[01:16:33.920 --> 01:16:35.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, you need to get...
[01:16:35.280 --> 01:16:37.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think we as hackers need to get on that.
[01:16:37.940 --> 01:16:42.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think tonight's show is definitely filled with priceless samples.
[01:16:43.100 --> 01:16:43.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[01:16:44.240 --> 01:16:44.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, seriously.
[01:16:45.580 --> 01:16:49.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, I don't have anything for the immediate future.
[01:16:50.280 --> 01:17:05.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's good for you to admonish people, or let them know they need to get their sequencing chops up and, like, start taking some of this audio and making beautiful, beautiful, gorgeous soundscapes and art with it.
[01:17:05.720 --> 01:17:08.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, people need to get their samplers tuned up for this one.
[01:17:09.580 --> 01:17:10.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[01:17:10.720 --> 01:17:11.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: Cool.
[01:17:11.380 --> 01:17:12.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, what's... you're in the heart of all the activity, I guess, in D.C.
[01:17:19.100 --> 01:17:23.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, just talking to people all the time about the signal thing.
[01:17:23.340 --> 01:17:24.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's so hilarious, man.
[01:17:24.920 --> 01:17:25.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh-huh.
[01:17:26.000 --> 01:17:27.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: This will happen again, okay?
[01:17:28.240 --> 01:17:35.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: We will keep having these kinds of idiotic, well, flukes under this administration.
[01:17:35.600 --> 01:17:44.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: I know that's a fair fact, and maybe not all of them will make the news in this spectacular fashion, but it will happen again.
[01:17:44.700 --> 01:17:45.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's obvious.
[01:17:45.780 --> 01:17:46.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's clear.
[01:17:46.700 --> 01:17:51.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, I think the secret is, first of all, you put idiots in charge, they're going to do idiotic things.
[01:17:51.520 --> 01:17:54.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, that's a good bet right there if you get the chance to take it.
[01:17:55.260 --> 01:18:12.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: But the fact that there are so many good people out there, too, that will do the right thing when circumstances throw things into their lap, you know, like (((Jeffrey Goldberg))) did, and share this information with everybody rather than, you know, do what maybe somebody at Fox News would do and say, oh, hey, Mr. President, you don't want this to get out, and we're not going to tell anybody.
[01:18:17.720 --> 01:18:18.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right, right.
[01:18:18.580 --> 01:18:22.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: You took a lot of guts to make a decision like that.
[01:18:22.620 --> 01:18:33.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and we might all find ourselves in a situation where, you know, a little bit of courage is necessary to share something with a lot of people, and I hope that we meet that test.
[01:18:34.320 --> 01:18:34.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[01:18:35.260 --> 01:18:41.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: And to address the caller previous to me, you know, they're just going on and on about what is the e-clincher.
[01:18:41.760 --> 01:18:42.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:18:42.220 --> 01:18:48.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, that's such an odd name, but I think what they need to realize is that nothing in life is free, okay?
[01:18:48.720 --> 01:18:50.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's not easy to make money.
[01:18:53.200 --> 01:18:59.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: Because what they want is to basically put it in no effort and get a payout, and I mean, that's not how the system works.
[01:18:59.680 --> 01:18:59.860]  Uh-huh.
[01:19:00.360 --> 01:19:14.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: You really should love what you do and do what you love and try to at least figure out a way to live off that, you know, just keep body and soul together.
[01:19:14.120 --> 01:19:15.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's what it's all about.
[01:19:15.660 --> 01:19:16.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[01:19:16.860 --> 01:19:17.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[01:19:18.160 --> 01:19:20.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: And then I have one more thing addressed to Rebel.
[01:19:20.860 --> 01:19:25.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know if he's listening right now, if he's going to call in the future, but you also need to get on that W3M.
[01:19:25.960 --> 01:19:30.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: I brought up W3M last time I called in, and he mentioned nothing about it.
[01:19:30.280 --> 01:19:32.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: Before that, he was always mentioning links.
[01:19:32.720 --> 01:19:33.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: There's two different links.
[01:19:34.000 --> 01:19:41.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: There's L-Y-N-X, and then there's L-I-N-K-S, which is another one that can also do images in your browser.
[01:19:41.640 --> 01:19:43.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, just putting that out there.
[01:19:43.660 --> 01:19:47.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: There's a lot of text mode browsers in and a few of them do images.
[01:19:47.400 --> 01:19:49.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't know there was an L-I-N-K-S.
[01:19:49.740 --> 01:19:50.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's kind of cool.
[01:19:50.520 --> 01:19:52.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: I knew about the L-Y-N-X one, of course.
[01:19:52.900 --> 01:19:55.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: Confusing naming, especially when we're on the radio.
[01:19:56.100 --> 01:19:57.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: These sound identical.
[01:19:57.900 --> 01:19:58.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: They do.
[01:19:59.800 --> 01:20:08.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I mean, when we're talking about these on the Internet, we're all using text so we can see the difference, magazines, et cetera.
[01:20:08.460 --> 01:20:15.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we know that Rebel has a new machine, so maybe W3M is on his radar.
[01:20:16.220 --> 01:20:21.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can you just remind us what the features of that particular software are?
[01:20:22.580 --> 01:20:32.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's a text mode browser for UNIX systems and using the frame buffer, it can display images directly in a frame buffer terminal.
[01:20:32.980 --> 01:20:35.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: I explained it a bit last time and I was a bit clumsy.
[01:20:36.120 --> 01:20:38.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I've been trying to work common my speaking.
[01:20:40.120 --> 01:20:47.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: But yeah, there's a little bit of configuration to set it up for graphical terminals, like if you're using a graphical
[01:20:50.880 --> 01:20:54.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: terminal emulator, where you have the terminal in a window on the desktop.
[01:20:55.040 --> 01:20:56.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: There's a little bit more set up for that.
[01:20:56.640 --> 01:21:00.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: When I tried it on there, there's a bit of...
[01:21:00.300 --> 01:21:02.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: most of the graphics didn't display.
[01:21:03.100 --> 01:21:07.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: But like I said previously, there's a key code...
[01:21:07.340 --> 01:21:07.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: What is it?
[01:21:07.660 --> 01:21:13.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: A key combination you can use under Linux to get onto a frame buffer terminal.
[01:21:13.620 --> 01:21:16.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: And that way you can display images using the frame buffer.
[01:21:16.460 --> 01:21:22.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's really neat and useful for embedded devices where you don't have the X server running.
[01:21:22.700 --> 01:21:24.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: You don't have enough resources and such.
[01:21:25.200 --> 01:21:40.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: Like this is something that could be used to make, I don't know, like an old Pentium 2 or 3, not sure exactly, PC that can at least run Debian or another Linux distribution, whichever you want, in a terminal fashion.
[01:21:40.880 --> 01:21:49.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: And you could have W3M as a way to just have a basic way to read, look at webpages.
[01:21:50.160 --> 01:21:54.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, not everybody in the world is as privileged as we are.
[01:21:55.740 --> 01:22:15.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: Not everybody has the latest computing muscle, so there should always be alternative methods, no matter how cumbersome or masochistic, if that's the correct word, these may seem to others who are on these latest new systems that can do all these things.
[01:22:16.300 --> 01:22:23.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, we've got graphics cards now that can do instant, in real-time ray tracing, 60 hertz refresh rate, all that.
[01:22:24.260 --> 01:22:30.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I mean, personally, for me, I come from a from a very,
[01:22:34.090 --> 01:22:37.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: you know, I don't like to take things for granted, is how I'd put it.
[01:22:38.790 --> 01:22:47.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and it's great that you point out the ability to use this in the sense of like retro computing or making older hardware.
[01:22:47.410 --> 01:22:51.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, I'm very active in retro computing, so that's why I come up with these things.
[01:22:51.450 --> 01:22:53.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: The flip side of that, you're talking about our privileges.
[01:22:53.910 --> 01:23:03.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Also, a lot of the newer chips and microcontrollers and, as you said, embedded stuff are incredibly powerful, and we all have access to those.
[01:23:03.850 --> 01:23:09.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Those could be running the very same software that you're talking about, even when in their limited capacity.
[01:23:09.570 --> 01:23:19.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, very, very good points as far as being sort of portable in terms of various platforms that you could make useful.
[01:23:20.150 --> 01:23:23.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I mean, there's a device for vintage computing.
[01:23:23.510 --> 01:23:24.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's used in vintage computing.
[01:23:24.730 --> 01:23:34.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's called a Wi-Fi modem, and it's a micro-ESP-based microcontroller that can connect to Wi-Fi.
[01:23:35.050 --> 01:23:40.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's controllable over a serial port, which most old computers have.
[01:23:42.310 --> 01:23:50.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: And that thing, that little chip is powerful enough to log on to telnet, BBS is for it, everything to the serial.
[01:23:50.470 --> 01:23:53.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: It can download files and send them over serial.
[01:23:54.790 --> 01:23:55.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: And what else?
[01:23:56.050 --> 01:23:56.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: What else?
[01:23:56.470 --> 01:23:56.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: It can do.
[01:23:57.070 --> 01:24:00.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: But yeah, I mean, the ESP, it's not an ESP32.
[01:24:00.990 --> 01:24:02.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: I forgot which one is.
[01:24:02.470 --> 01:24:06.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's an ESP series chip with built-in networking.
[01:24:06.290 --> 01:24:13.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: But that might be more powerful than some of the computers we might be connecting to this to, like a Commodore 64 or a ZX Spectrum.
[01:24:14.550 --> 01:24:15.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely.
[01:24:15.510 --> 01:24:16.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Great, great points.
[01:24:16.790 --> 01:24:21.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: And there's just so much capability all around us.
[01:24:21.170 --> 01:24:21.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: We just have to...
[01:24:21.610 --> 01:24:22.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: They are really cheap.
[01:24:24.890 --> 01:24:25.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: Go ahead.
[01:24:26.650 --> 01:24:42.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and affordability is, whether it's old or new, it's just about thinking about repurposing and different uses and creating steps to implement those applications for them.
[01:24:43.270 --> 01:24:44.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, great ideas.
[01:24:44.830 --> 01:24:45.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Definitely.
[01:24:45.630 --> 01:24:45.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:24:46.910 --> 01:24:50.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, well, thanks for your call and hopefully we see you at our next conference.
[01:24:51.890 --> 01:24:52.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, thank you.
[01:24:53.410 --> 01:24:54.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm thinking about it.
[01:24:54.650 --> 01:24:55.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm always thinking about it.
[01:24:56.090 --> 01:24:56.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, see ya.
[01:24:57.430 --> 01:24:57.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[01:24:58.590 --> 01:24:58.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[01:24:59.250 --> 01:25:02.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: And Rubble, you've got to get on that W3M and everyone else.
[01:25:02.490 --> 01:25:03.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we're going to...
[01:25:03.090 --> 01:25:05.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: If he calls in tonight, we're definitely going to bring that up.
[01:25:05.530 --> 01:25:06.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yep, yep.
[01:25:06.210 --> 01:25:08.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: And everybody else, check out Gay Furry Hackers.
[01:25:08.290 --> 01:25:12.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: I know a lot of people saw it and that was pretty interesting, but you've got to sample that.
[01:25:12.550 --> 01:25:15.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: I want to see people doing with it because it's pretty funny.
[01:25:15.810 --> 01:25:16.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's what I thought.
[01:25:17.050 --> 01:25:17.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, anyway, see ya.
[01:25:18.090 --> 01:25:18.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: Goodbye.
[01:25:18.690 --> 01:25:19.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: Thank you for the show.
[01:25:19.710 --> 01:25:20.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, take care.
[01:25:21.890 --> 01:25:30.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: We can drop the link to Gay Furry Hackers in the chat for people who are listening and are not familiar with that particular musical classic.
[01:25:31.190 --> 01:25:33.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: And can you drop the link to people who might be listening?
[01:25:35.510 --> 01:25:37.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's in the chat.
[01:25:37.270 --> 01:25:41.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but people can't look at the chat or are listening with their ears.
[01:25:41.550 --> 01:25:42.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Can't you read it?
[01:25:42.710 --> 01:25:43.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: What you posted?
[01:25:44.210 --> 01:25:45.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes.
[01:25:46.230 --> 01:25:59.950]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you go to soundcloud.com slash luraichu which is l-u-r-a-i-c-h-u slash gay dash furry dash hackers.
[01:26:00.370 --> 01:26:00.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[01:26:01.030 --> 01:26:01.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: Cool.
[01:26:02.450 --> 01:26:04.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: And let us know what you think.
[01:26:04.250 --> 01:26:09.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Again, you can write to us oth@2600.com, did Alex fall off the bed?
[01:26:09.270 --> 01:26:10.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: I just see a bed there.
[01:26:11.130 --> 01:26:13.430]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, I didn't look at the screen for a while.
[01:26:13.510 --> 01:26:13.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm concerned.
[01:26:14.310 --> 01:26:15.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: He may be...
[01:26:15.730 --> 01:26:20.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think he built himself a fort out of the pillows and he's hiding from us.
[01:26:20.230 --> 01:26:20.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[01:26:20.710 --> 01:26:21.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think he's doing...
[01:26:21.430 --> 01:26:21.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, there he is.
[01:26:21.930 --> 01:26:22.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: He's back.
[01:26:22.150 --> 01:26:23.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: He's taking care of himself.
[01:26:23.310 --> 01:26:25.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, he landed hard on the bed just now.
[01:26:26.270 --> 01:26:27.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: I did, yeah.
[01:26:27.490 --> 01:26:27.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[01:26:27.890 --> 01:26:28.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[01:26:28.330 --> 01:26:29.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, I have been...
[01:26:29.170 --> 01:26:31.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: I get a fly pretty early tomorrow morning.
[01:26:31.850 --> 01:26:33.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, I am...
[01:26:35.490 --> 01:26:35.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: Frozen.
[01:26:36.150 --> 01:26:37.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're frozen is what you are.
[01:26:37.830 --> 01:26:39.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, for f*ck's sake.
[01:26:40.650 --> 01:26:43.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: Did you notice not a single caller has dropped?
[01:26:44.210 --> 01:26:46.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Everybody who calls us is able to maintain their connection.
[01:26:47.990 --> 01:26:48.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, telephones...
[01:26:48.910 --> 01:26:50.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: Telephones are the way to go.
[01:26:51.110 --> 01:26:51.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: A shitty connection.
[01:26:52.110 --> 01:26:52.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: We don't need this.
[01:26:52.950 --> 01:26:54.350]  [SPEAKER_04]: We don't need to see each other.
[01:26:54.570 --> 01:26:55.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: We really don't.
[01:26:55.570 --> 01:26:56.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think it would actually still...
[01:26:56.890 --> 01:27:01.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: It would be pretty expensive to maintain an international call, though, wouldn't it?
[01:27:01.910 --> 01:27:02.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's odd.
[01:27:02.970 --> 01:27:03.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[01:27:03.810 --> 01:27:04.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[01:27:04.270 --> 01:27:06.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: I haven't made an international call in a while, but this is free.
[01:27:07.170 --> 01:27:08.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, this is video.
[01:27:08.790 --> 01:27:09.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: We don't need video.
[01:27:09.910 --> 01:27:10.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: We just need audio.
[01:27:12.190 --> 01:27:12.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[01:27:12.770 --> 01:27:14.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, we've already established that it's not...
[01:27:14.970 --> 01:27:16.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's just the network dropping.
[01:27:17.010 --> 01:27:18.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not the...
[01:27:18.150 --> 01:27:19.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not a bandwidth issue.
[01:27:19.890 --> 01:27:21.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a shitty network issue.
[01:27:21.470 --> 01:27:23.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's plan in advance next time.
[01:27:23.810 --> 01:27:24.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead, Kyle.
[01:27:25.090 --> 01:27:25.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:27:25.390 --> 01:27:35.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I was just gonna say it would be interesting if you could implement something where you had like a local number that dialed into our Skype or excuse me, pardon me.
[01:27:35.830 --> 01:27:37.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Did you say our signal conversation?
[01:27:38.110 --> 01:27:38.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[01:27:38.510 --> 01:27:40.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just used a cuss.
[01:27:41.890 --> 01:27:43.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sorry about my swear.
[01:27:44.310 --> 01:27:45.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: There is a phone call.
[01:27:45.930 --> 01:27:49.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's always a phone call, but I just want to explore this a little bit more.
[01:27:49.330 --> 01:27:50.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we are using signal.
[01:27:50.430 --> 01:27:52.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: We don't have to use signal for Alex, at least.
[01:27:52.510 --> 01:27:53.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was thinking about hotspots.
[01:27:54.110 --> 01:27:55.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like, what if you had a hotspot?
[01:27:55.270 --> 01:28:01.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then I was thinking about the, what is that new thing that EFF's been promoting that's an MC catcher that loads onto a hotspot?
[01:28:02.190 --> 01:28:05.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you could have some kind of like travel hotspot.
[01:28:05.090 --> 01:28:10.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: But I think you need a cell plan, like a SIM card or something to power your hotspot.
[01:28:10.870 --> 01:28:14.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it would still be costly to some degree for international.
[01:28:14.730 --> 01:28:16.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Unless you had a local UK one.
[01:28:16.750 --> 01:28:20.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, if it carried a cell tower, you know, a mini cell tower with him.
[01:28:21.630 --> 01:28:22.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:28:22.070 --> 01:28:27.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I think it's just this particular location is not ideal, obviously.
[01:28:28.030 --> 01:28:34.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: The network here is old or rickety or something like that or it's just unfit for purpose in some way or another.
[01:28:35.190 --> 01:28:37.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or you could like load balance multiple.
[01:28:37.530 --> 01:28:40.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: But see, if you're a customer, you're only going to get one login.
[01:28:40.570 --> 01:28:45.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: So you can't have like four and like hog a whole bunch of channels and load balance and you have a better connection.
[01:28:46.110 --> 01:28:53.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Alex, if there is a feedback survey card, please be honest, be brutal, and make sure this doesn't happen to anyone ever again.
[01:28:55.250 --> 01:28:56.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it sucks.
[01:28:56.370 --> 01:28:56.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: What are you going to do?
[01:28:57.130 --> 01:28:57.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have a phone call.
[01:28:57.850 --> 01:28:58.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's what we're going to do.
[01:28:58.270 --> 01:28:58.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to pick up the phone.
[01:28:58.970 --> 01:28:59.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening.
[01:28:59.390 --> 01:29:00.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:29:00.650 --> 01:29:00.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead.
[01:29:01.790 --> 01:29:02.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, hi.
[01:29:02.550 --> 01:29:04.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to recommend an article to you guys.
[01:29:05.430 --> 01:29:08.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's from the German magazine Der Spiegel.
[01:29:08.770 --> 01:29:09.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Der Spiegel, yes.
[01:29:10.770 --> 01:29:14.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it's somewhat related to what you guys were talking about.
[01:29:15.210 --> 01:29:19.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: It says, private data and passwords of senior U.S. security officials found online.
[01:29:22.130 --> 01:29:36.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: It says, now reporting by Der Spiegel has found that the contact data of some of the officials in the signal chat, including mobile phone numbers, is freely accessible on the Internet.
[01:29:36.250 --> 01:29:42.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're referring to Pete Hegseth, Waltz, and Tulsi Gabbard.
[01:29:42.890 --> 01:29:48.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: They were able to find their info, phone numbers and some passwords.
[01:29:48.490 --> 01:29:53.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's that thing where signal is findable as your contact, right?
[01:29:53.930 --> 01:29:55.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is this a new article, caller?
[01:29:56.250 --> 01:29:56.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[01:29:57.170 --> 01:29:59.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's from today, actually.
[01:30:00.110 --> 01:30:00.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wow, that's pretty new.
[01:30:00.870 --> 01:30:01.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: Earlier today.
[01:30:01.790 --> 01:30:02.610]  [SPEAKER_02]: Pretty recent, yeah.
[01:30:02.810 --> 01:30:06.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, I mean, it just goes to what you were saying before.
[01:30:06.790 --> 01:30:08.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: We have clowns.
[01:30:08.870 --> 01:30:10.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a confederacy of dunces.
[01:30:11.170 --> 01:30:14.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: If only we had clowns, they would be so much more competent.
[01:30:15.550 --> 01:30:17.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, these are malevolent clowns.
[01:30:17.630 --> 01:30:18.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's true, yeah.
[01:30:18.670 --> 01:30:19.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well put.
[01:30:19.990 --> 01:30:21.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just so depressing.
[01:30:21.590 --> 01:30:24.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I hope we can make it two more years, I don't know, until the midterm.
[01:30:25.490 --> 01:30:27.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but I don't know if that's...
[01:30:27.070 --> 01:30:28.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're right, you're right.
[01:30:28.370 --> 01:30:29.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have to be upbeat here.
[01:30:30.390 --> 01:30:31.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we're having fun with this.
[01:30:32.030 --> 01:30:33.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Definitely have a plan for this.
[01:30:33.170 --> 01:30:40.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's crazy, it's scary, but, you know, they're more pissed off than we are right now, and I get great comfort in that.
[01:30:41.690 --> 01:30:49.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: It says it was particularly easy for Der Spiegel reporters to discover Hegseth's mobile phone number and email address.
[01:30:49.570 --> 01:30:57.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: They turned to a commercial provider of contact information that is primarily used by companies for sales, marketing, and recruitment.
[01:30:58.230 --> 01:31:00.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: So these people are real dummies.
[01:31:00.930 --> 01:31:01.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean...
[01:31:01.450 --> 01:31:02.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: Guys, why didn't we do this?
[01:31:02.950 --> 01:31:05.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: Why do we have to wait for Der Spiegel?
[01:31:05.310 --> 01:31:06.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not even their country.
[01:31:06.430 --> 01:31:07.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: We should have done this.
[01:31:07.630 --> 01:31:08.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry, everybody.
[01:31:08.630 --> 01:31:09.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: We fell down on the job here.
[01:31:10.050 --> 01:31:10.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Do the work.
[01:31:10.870 --> 01:31:11.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we got to do the work.
[01:31:12.070 --> 01:31:12.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Come on, everybody.
[01:31:12.630 --> 01:31:13.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: We can dox these people.
[01:31:14.070 --> 01:31:18.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: We can just reveal all the information that they don't want out there.
[01:31:19.090 --> 01:31:20.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: It goes to the...
[01:31:20.690 --> 01:31:30.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: It speaks to how not amateur, but just how kind of subsumed in commercial culture they are.
[01:31:31.050 --> 01:31:32.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're like super mainstream.
[01:31:32.510 --> 01:31:38.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: They don't think about staying out of these systems and stuff like that.
[01:31:38.270 --> 01:31:43.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: And there's a lot of posturing and popularity in their circles.
[01:31:43.430 --> 01:31:50.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: So of course they're like networking and using commercial this and being on that.
[01:31:50.470 --> 01:31:59.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they're not thinking about having small footprint or, you know, being kind of a low visibility or anything like that.
[01:31:59.430 --> 01:32:04.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's all about being brazen and throwing weight around and stuff, right?
[01:32:06.210 --> 01:32:07.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead, Gila.
[01:32:08.930 --> 01:32:09.550]  [SPEAKER_01]: article.
[01:32:09.830 --> 01:32:10.370]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's fascinating.
[01:32:10.590 --> 01:32:12.450]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to send it to you guys right now.
[01:32:13.670 --> 01:32:23.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: Apparently there were passwords from these guys that got found on have I been pwned and they didn't change them.
[01:32:23.610 --> 01:32:31.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: So the information also led to Walsh's profiles for Microsoft Teams, LinkedIn, WhatsApp, and Signal.
[01:32:31.930 --> 01:32:32.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[01:32:33.310 --> 01:32:33.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: Just wow.
[01:32:33.710 --> 01:32:33.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[01:32:34.030 --> 01:32:37.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: And Tulsi Gabbard's email address was found on WikiLeaks and Reddit.
[01:32:38.770 --> 01:32:40.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is...
[01:32:40.630 --> 01:32:42.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, really disturbing.
[01:32:43.810 --> 01:32:45.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Just for those...
[01:32:46.810 --> 01:32:49.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: For those unfamiliar with Michael Waltz, he's a former Green Beret.
[01:32:50.190 --> 01:32:54.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: He was a defense advisor at the Pentagon under Donald Rumsfeld, under Robert Gates.
[01:32:55.230 --> 01:32:58.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: He was a consultant to Dick Cheney on counterterrorism.
[01:32:58.430 --> 01:33:01.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: He is a career national security dude.
[01:33:03.510 --> 01:33:06.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: And this is what he's responsible for right now.
[01:33:06.390 --> 01:33:07.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: He's not a cybersecurity expert.
[01:33:07.690 --> 01:33:08.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's pretty clear.
[01:33:10.030 --> 01:33:11.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, caller, thank you for that.
[01:33:11.590 --> 01:33:12.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's fascinating stuff.
[01:33:12.770 --> 01:33:13.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to look into it.
[01:33:14.350 --> 01:33:15.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, definitely check it out.
[01:33:15.950 --> 01:33:20.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and that interview you did with Jason Scott a couple of weeks ago, that was fantastic.
[01:33:20.470 --> 01:33:22.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: That was one of the best shows you ever did.
[01:33:22.610 --> 01:33:23.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you very much.
[01:33:23.950 --> 01:33:25.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: That was really amazing.
[01:33:25.310 --> 01:33:31.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I hope you get him back in, you know, you should have him on like every five or six months.
[01:33:31.370 --> 01:33:34.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, at least maybe two or three times a year because he's amazing.
[01:33:34.410 --> 01:33:35.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, you're absolutely right.
[01:33:35.610 --> 01:33:37.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: The hours just fly by.
[01:33:37.190 --> 01:33:44.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: We really love checking in with him and he is such a huge supporter and speaks so positively about what we do.
[01:33:44.770 --> 01:33:49.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: It makes us want to do it even better in every regard.
[01:33:49.810 --> 01:34:03.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: And their work over the Internet Archive and his passion for what he's doing and sense of humor about everything is just it's really rewarding to be a part of and to share with him about stuff.
[01:34:03.090 --> 01:34:04.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm glad you heard that in that show.
[01:34:04.810 --> 01:34:08.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: And not to steer the ship back to hope with every call, but he is going to be at hope.
[01:34:08.290 --> 01:34:08.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: He's going to be a big presence.
[01:34:09.110 --> 01:34:12.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: there so more of the Jason Scott magic you can witness yourself.
[01:34:13.810 --> 01:34:15.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I look forward to it.
[01:34:15.230 --> 01:34:16.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you guys have a great night.
[01:34:16.610 --> 01:34:17.090]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks a lot.
[01:34:17.170 --> 01:34:17.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for your call.
[01:34:18.130 --> 01:34:23.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Alex, I wanted to ask you about this because you found another .gov site.
[01:34:23.350 --> 01:34:29.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: I meant to ask about it on the show, but boy, we were so talked out with the crazy signal stuff.
[01:34:29.610 --> 01:34:30.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: What did you find this week?
[01:34:30.990 --> 01:34:31.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Or what found you?
[01:34:32.770 --> 01:34:48.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it was actually really quite interesting and it hasn't been out there at all yet, but part of the system that I wrote to track new domains in the .gov zone file and any zone file, but I found something really quite interesting yesterday.
[01:34:49.650 --> 01:34:53.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Inevitably, this is going to break up as soon as I say what the domain is, right?
[01:34:53.310 --> 01:34:55.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, it was really weird.
[01:34:56.070 --> 01:34:58.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's trumpcard.gov.
[01:34:59.630 --> 01:35:01.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's an odd one, right?
[01:35:01.330 --> 01:35:01.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, there's...
[01:35:01.890 --> 01:35:20.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: Alex, you know, I appreciate a joke just like the next guy, but if you're going to sit there and tell me that this government, even the clown car government we have right now, check clowncard.gov too, by the way, you're going to tell me that they went and registered a site called trumpcard.gov?
[01:35:21.470 --> 01:35:23.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: What am I supposed to do with that?
[01:35:24.130 --> 01:35:25.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have no idea.
[01:35:25.790 --> 01:35:27.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, it's interesting.
[01:35:27.090 --> 01:35:29.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'm going to it right now to see if there's anything there.
[01:35:30.750 --> 01:35:36.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, I don't think there's anything there yet, but there is a commercial enterprise.
[01:35:39.250 --> 01:35:40.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: We all know...
[01:35:41.550 --> 01:35:43.930]  [SPEAKER_04]: You froze again at the most inopportunity.
[01:35:44.090 --> 01:35:44.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, for f*ck's sake.
[01:35:46.790 --> 01:35:52.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's a commercial enterprise associated with trump hotels, I believe, called the trump card.
[01:35:52.890 --> 01:36:07.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: And what would be particularly interesting is that if this is a direct crossover of commercial interests in a dot-gov site, then that would arguably violate the dot-gov act.
[01:36:07.810 --> 01:36:14.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let me stop you right there, because every time somebody says this, yeah, this will be a violation, they say, we don't care, we're going to do it anyway.
[01:36:15.050 --> 01:36:17.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: A judge rules against them, they ignore the judge.
[01:36:17.230 --> 01:36:23.330]  [SPEAKER_04]: So when do we actually get to do something about them, you know, flagrantly flatting the law?
[01:36:23.490 --> 01:36:25.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this is a violation, absolutely.
[01:36:25.570 --> 01:36:26.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: I agree.
[01:36:26.790 --> 01:36:31.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, it would be illegal, but it would be against the law.
[01:36:31.190 --> 01:36:48.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I think, you know, look, we're going headlong into a constitutional crisis, perhaps, in this country, and the violation of the dot-gov act may seem, you know, really, like, just a very small blip here that nobody would care about.
[01:36:48.770 --> 01:36:52.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I think it's dangerous if we let these things go.
[01:36:54.570 --> 01:36:55.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have a phone call.
[01:36:55.930 --> 01:36:57.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have a phone call.
[01:36:57.210 --> 01:36:57.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[01:36:58.170 --> 01:36:58.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: And good evening.
[01:36:59.070 --> 01:37:00.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:37:00.630 --> 01:37:00.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead.
[01:37:02.470 --> 01:37:03.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hi.
[01:37:03.350 --> 01:37:03.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, what's up?
[01:37:04.770 --> 01:37:26.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was wondering, last week when you took phone calls over the air, and you told people who call in on the after show not to call in because you wanted to have the phone lines open for people who listen over the air radios.
[01:37:27.170 --> 01:37:30.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: I listen to over the air radio, you know, for WBAI.
[01:37:30.870 --> 01:37:34.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: I am actually within the broadcast area.
[01:37:35.290 --> 01:37:40.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I didn't call in, but I wondered whether, you know, that was quite right.
[01:37:41.110 --> 01:37:42.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, hold on a second.
[01:37:43.410 --> 01:37:45.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: The idea is not, you know, who listens where.
[01:37:46.170 --> 01:37:49.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's how many voices we want to get on the air.
[01:37:50.050 --> 01:37:53.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, let's use Rebel as an example.
[01:37:53.490 --> 01:37:54.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Rebel calls all the time.
[01:37:54.830 --> 01:37:57.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: He might be listening to the radio, so he's going to call the radio show too.
[01:37:57.990 --> 01:38:04.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's like we're hearing too much Rebel calling in on the phone and somebody else isn't able to call in as a result of that.
[01:38:04.730 --> 01:38:06.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I think that's pretty easy to understand.
[01:38:07.050 --> 01:38:07.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:38:07.270 --> 01:38:11.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: And also, the caveat here is having something to say.
[01:38:12.850 --> 01:38:13.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[01:38:13.670 --> 01:38:17.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I didn't have anything to say, so that was another reason.
[01:38:17.070 --> 01:38:17.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[01:38:17.190 --> 01:38:19.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: You always have something to say, so that's not a worry.
[01:38:19.950 --> 01:38:20.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, right.
[01:38:20.290 --> 01:38:22.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not judging the quality of the call.
[01:38:23.370 --> 01:38:26.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, well, last week I didn't have anything I wanted to say, so...
[01:38:26.910 --> 01:38:47.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, and it wasn't that we wanted to be so cut and dry, like, like, that, I mean, yes, technically you may be right, yes, you listen on one or the other, but the point, as Emmanuel pointed out, is we just want to give an opportunity to people new voices so that we keep it a nice eclectic mix of conversation and those people have an opportunity.
[01:38:47.890 --> 01:38:50.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: We got a call from a leftist fireman, all right?
[01:38:50.190 --> 01:38:53.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: And if we had taken another regular call, we wouldn't have gotten that call.
[01:38:53.710 --> 01:38:54.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: That was a good call.
[01:38:55.310 --> 01:38:55.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[01:38:56.510 --> 01:38:57.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, what's on your mind this week?
[01:38:57.950 --> 01:38:59.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Or is this what's on your mind this week?
[01:39:01.490 --> 01:39:03.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, there's so much going on.
[01:39:05.570 --> 01:39:07.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Where do I start?
[01:39:07.770 --> 01:39:08.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Trump!
[01:39:09.910 --> 01:39:11.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, don't start there.
[01:39:11.490 --> 01:39:12.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: Don't start there.
[01:39:12.190 --> 01:39:12.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, I won't.
[01:39:12.970 --> 01:39:26.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're so tired of I mean, it's just, you know, how do we live through the next four years waiting for, you know, his Big Mac heart attack.
[01:39:26.350 --> 01:39:27.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, you know what we do?
[01:39:27.890 --> 01:39:43.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: We wait for moments like the one that happened this week because we know there are going to be more of them and the way The signal moment, yes, but there are going to be more and if the right people are in the right place at the right time, basically,
[01:39:43.070 --> 01:39:51.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: it'll play out in a way that is very damaging to them and they will unravel like a like a ball of yarn, they will unravel.
[01:39:52.490 --> 01:39:54.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're not cut out for this kind of thing.
[01:39:55.010 --> 01:40:17.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: They really are not and all we have to do is keep our integrity, stick with each other, support each other, not do what they want us to do, which is basically descend into disagreements on minutiae and realize that the goal here is to get democracy back and then fix it from that point on.
[01:40:17.690 --> 01:40:26.870]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know there's a lot that needs to be done, but right now, you know, we're being pushed down a hill and we have to all figure out how to get back up that hill.
[01:40:28.190 --> 01:40:44.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I've been thinking, you know, Trump was not the ideal person to be in office when COVID came around, but at least he did want to get those MRA shots done quickly.
[01:40:44.050 --> 01:40:54.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: especially, if something, some other disease comes around during his stay and Robert F.
[01:40:55.350 --> 01:40:57.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: is in charge, what are we going to do?
[01:40:58.290 --> 01:40:59.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's a good question.
[01:40:59.650 --> 01:41:03.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's an opportunity for that of unraveling because then they would be at loggerheads, right?
[01:41:03.750 --> 01:41:06.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or they would be basically in conflict, right?
[01:41:06.830 --> 01:41:09.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: People would be dying right and left everywhere.
[01:41:09.390 --> 01:41:11.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's what happened during COVID.
[01:41:11.210 --> 01:41:13.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of people seem to forget that happened during COVID.
[01:41:13.010 --> 01:41:16.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: COVID, and in fact, Trump is one of those people.
[01:41:16.250 --> 01:41:28.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: What he did during COVID actually was good, at least parts of it were, but he basically would not do that again and in fact is trying to rewrite history where he wasn't doing the things that he actually did.
[01:41:29.290 --> 01:41:40.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I actually think they wouldn't be at loggerheads as much as we think they would be, but I think the average person would realize that these people are wrong, they're crazy, and they're going to get us killed.
[01:41:44.080 --> 01:41:45.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then something will happen.
[01:41:46.520 --> 01:41:53.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then people will, you know, you're seeing with the Teslas, you're seeing people react.
[01:41:53.820 --> 01:41:55.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're reacting in all kinds of different ways.
[01:41:56.060 --> 01:42:06.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: But when when you basically make it impossible for people to express themselves, when you threaten them with being sent to a foreign country, they're doing that now.
[01:42:06.320 --> 01:42:11.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're threatening American citizens with being sent to El Salvador.
[01:42:11.760 --> 01:42:19.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you protest in a certain way or if you commit a certain kind of crime, it's, yeah, of course it's illegal, but they're threatening anyway.
[01:42:20.020 --> 01:42:21.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: Marco Rubio is doing this.
[01:42:21.860 --> 01:42:33.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: If we let that become normal, if we let that become the kind of thing that we can expect, then all bets are off as to what this regime is capable of.
[01:42:33.220 --> 01:42:39.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: So people need to react and sometimes they're going to react in ways that aren't the best choice.
[01:42:39.980 --> 01:42:41.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, you know, burning Teslas.
[01:42:42.040 --> 01:42:44.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I understand why they're happening.
[01:42:44.600 --> 01:42:45.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wouldn't do that myself.
[01:42:45.520 --> 01:42:52.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: Certainly would never do that to anybody that owns one because they're not the enemy but the people who are pushing this agenda.
[01:42:52.880 --> 01:42:53.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: They certainly are.
[01:42:54.040 --> 01:43:03.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: And if you make it impossible to raise your voice or to sign a petition or to vote, well, then people are going to burn things.
[01:43:03.320 --> 01:43:04.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's going to get ugly.
[01:43:04.680 --> 01:43:09.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, you have no one to blame but yourself, you know, the people in charge.
[01:43:09.300 --> 01:43:39.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, they're already operating with like sort of extrajudicial punishment and in illegal modes, which is why, as he pointed out, when we talk about like domains or little nuts and bolts and dotted I's and cross T's, it doesn't really seem like any of that is going to amount to anything if they're already operating with impunity and trying and backing people into positions where expressing
[01:43:39.080 --> 01:43:48.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: themselves with these sorts of high visibility and relatively low penalty actions.
[01:43:48.950 --> 01:43:59.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, they haven't yet made an example of anybody that's done that kind of vandalism and, you know, that's destroying property.
[01:43:59.710 --> 01:44:06.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think you and I were talking this week about what violence is versus vandalism.
[01:44:06.980 --> 01:44:15.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I even asked Elon Musk's AI bot is vandalism violence and it said, of course not.
[01:44:15.480 --> 01:44:17.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not, but it's totally different.
[01:44:17.800 --> 01:44:18.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you know what?
[01:44:19.100 --> 01:44:21.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Destroying a Tesla, it's not a hate crime.
[01:44:21.800 --> 01:44:25.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's not a hate crime at all because a Tesla is not a human being.
[01:44:25.940 --> 01:44:26.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah.
[01:44:27.140 --> 01:44:39.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you have a government that's operating illegally and victimizing the entirety of its populace in myriad ways, what honestly would you expect people to do?
[01:44:39.940 --> 01:44:42.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: What is the logical extent of that?
[01:44:43.140 --> 01:44:46.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: What kind of backlash should you expect to see?
[01:44:46.260 --> 01:44:53.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you know that mass actions are just going to get you troops and national guard and rubber bullets and tear gas, you've seen that.
[01:44:54.080 --> 01:44:56.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, people on the left understand that.
[01:44:56.740 --> 01:45:00.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: They know what that is, the flexing of the executive.
[01:45:00.940 --> 01:45:10.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Then you're going to get a lot of asymmetrical and unusual sorts of tactics and social warfare, shall we say.
[01:45:10.240 --> 01:45:15.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not just limited to the United States because this regime is making animes all over the world.
[01:45:15.980 --> 01:45:29.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we've seen, watching Canadian television, boy, we see how they are basically energized by all of this and how they are finding themselves and putting aside their differences and uniting.
[01:45:29.600 --> 01:45:32.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we need to learn from them, do the same damn thing.
[01:45:32.780 --> 01:45:45.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: And also, dare I say, the people of Serbia, you know, standing up against corruption over there and standing up against the Trump regime as well, 350,000 people rallying in Belgrade.
[01:45:45.880 --> 01:45:48.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, when do we do something like we're a much bigger country?
[01:45:48.880 --> 01:45:50.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: We need to be doing things like that, too.
[01:45:50.580 --> 01:45:55.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Even Greenland we can learn something from because they're uniting against all of this.
[01:45:56.040 --> 01:46:04.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, there are going to be increasing numbers of countries and parts of the world that will join with us.
[01:46:04.820 --> 01:46:13.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I don't want to imply that a mass action is itself wrong because there will be a clampdown on it.
[01:46:13.180 --> 01:46:42.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just think that the American populace has been incredibly comfortable for a very long time and to orchestrate something on that scale takes a lot more unification, galvanizing of messaging and action and a lot of anticipation of what occurs in large groups like that and a preparedness that we just have not practiced in this country because of our relative comfort.
[01:46:43.200 --> 01:46:55.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, being prepared for provocateurs, being prepared for, you know, taking care of people and what kind of messages are on signs and how to communicate and coordinate.
[01:46:55.440 --> 01:47:04.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: All of those things that it would take to do that take the kinds of unity we've seen in Canada, the kinds of tactics that have been used in peaceful protests.
[01:47:04.880 --> 01:47:07.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: It can happen, but it has to remain peaceful.
[01:47:08.060 --> 01:47:09.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: It has to have scale.
[01:47:09.420 --> 01:47:15.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we just we've been too comfortable like, you know, going and consuming.
[01:47:15.860 --> 01:47:41.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it just there's it needs to be a cohesive sense of discomfort that leads to an action like that to for us to really approach that in a way that will work and not result in some kind of chaotic thing with a lot of casualties and negative coverage and publicity and then,
[01:47:41.940 --> 01:47:47.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: you know, having people turn on this sort of resistance that this administration deserves.
[01:47:47.820 --> 01:47:48.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: See what you unleashed?
[01:47:50.060 --> 01:47:51.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go ahead.
[01:47:52.820 --> 01:48:05.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thing is, you know, we saw a one-day civil war erupt on that on that day.
[01:48:06.240 --> 01:48:06.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: January 6th.
[01:48:07.800 --> 01:48:07.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:48:08.360 --> 01:48:08.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[01:48:09.380 --> 01:48:14.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I don't want to see that happening elsewhere.
[01:48:14.620 --> 01:48:26.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thing is, the American people are, is not educated in how to do non-violent civil disobedience and keep it peaceful.
[01:48:26.460 --> 01:48:27.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it gets out of hand.
[01:48:27.160 --> 01:48:38.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: We, we, we need, we need to have massive education on how that works if we want to keep things non-violent.
[01:48:38.340 --> 01:48:39.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: It takes discipline.
[01:48:39.640 --> 01:48:41.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: It takes serious discipline.
[01:48:42.020 --> 01:48:44.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it takes education, training.
[01:48:44.920 --> 01:48:52.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and we have this sort of, the sense of the individual, people are very individualistic in our, in our country.
[01:48:53.140 --> 01:48:56.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're just, we're a different society than a lot of other places.
[01:48:57.400 --> 01:49:18.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, and liberty and all of these sort of catchphrases that were, um, brought up on, they have an impact and we have to be a little bit, um, a little bit, uh, distinct from those things to, to be able to stick together.
[01:49:18.400 --> 01:49:19.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that is really it.
[01:49:19.840 --> 01:49:28.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you're getting it, like, even in the coverage of this, like, I've heard more from all corners of, of my life, unusual ways.
[01:49:28.200 --> 01:49:29.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's just in the discourse.
[01:49:29.800 --> 01:49:36.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: People are talking about this, uh, everybody knows about this, and it's been funny to me.
[01:49:36.680 --> 01:49:43.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can't, I can't step into any conversation or, or, you know, talk to anybody without somebody joking about it.
[01:49:43.440 --> 01:49:52.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: And the immediacy of how aware people are of something because it is eminently ridiculable, but, uh, that's a, that's a start.
[01:49:52.920 --> 01:50:00.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's a sign, a good sign that people are at least aware, and there's humor and good, good faith in, in that.
[01:50:01.060 --> 01:50:14.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, but, uh, but it, it will take that, um, awareness and, um, uh, people having the right response in these moments and make it something that other people can get behind.
[01:50:15.480 --> 01:50:16.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: final word, caller.
[01:50:19.160 --> 01:50:24.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, I'm not encouraged by what I hear you say.
[01:50:24.600 --> 01:50:26.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm, I'm not seeing it happen.
[01:50:27.260 --> 01:50:32.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, you know, I could, I could, I could see that, but, um, we don't really have a choice, do we?
[01:50:35.060 --> 01:50:47.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, we need to have non-violent civil disobedience training everywhere so that when things happen, people are already trained.
[01:50:47.260 --> 01:50:50.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, but, you know, liable to happen unscheduled.
[01:50:51.120 --> 01:50:52.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think that's what's going to happen.
[01:50:52.820 --> 01:50:54.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it is going to happen unscheduled.
[01:50:54.400 --> 01:51:05.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think you can control something like this, and I think if you try, it's just going to, it's just going to push it further down the road, and it's, it's, it's kind of like the Democrats, you know, always filing petitions and, and motions and things like that,
[01:51:05.820 --> 01:51:13.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: and never actually getting things done, and that's, that's what I I think the people will teach us to help him.
[01:51:13.380 --> 01:51:14.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: That reminds me.
[01:51:15.300 --> 01:51:20.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: Trump threatening all of the lawyers who filed things against him.
[01:51:21.240 --> 01:51:28.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm wondering, will that have a chilling effect, or is that like hitting the bee's hive with a stick?
[01:51:29.080 --> 01:51:32.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: It depends on the quality of the lawyer, I guess, you know?
[01:51:32.240 --> 01:51:34.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: So we'll just have to see what their reaction is.
[01:51:34.440 --> 01:51:36.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure Alex would not be one of them that is intimidated.
[01:51:37.500 --> 01:51:39.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, we're going to move on, but thanks for your call.
[01:51:40.320 --> 01:51:41.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, bye.
[01:51:41.220 --> 01:51:41.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: Take care.
[01:51:42.360 --> 01:51:44.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, she really got us going.
[01:51:44.920 --> 01:51:48.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, I've been hearing all these things, you know, recently.
[01:51:48.340 --> 01:51:51.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I think it was Marco Rubio who was...
[01:51:52.560 --> 01:51:57.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, actually, it was Mike Johnson who was threatening judges.
[01:51:57.640 --> 01:52:02.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know how judges keep saying that Trump can't keep doing what he's doing?
[01:52:02.580 --> 01:52:08.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: And basically saying you have to stop deporting people without due process.
[01:52:08.300 --> 01:52:16.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: And Johnson, the other day, said that, you know, Congress controls the budget of the judiciary.
[01:52:17.580 --> 01:52:22.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: And basically implying that they're going to just cut them off if they keep ruling against Trump.
[01:52:23.820 --> 01:52:25.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is that true, Alex?
[01:52:25.180 --> 01:52:26.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is that how it works?
[01:52:26.440 --> 01:52:27.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Can they do that?
[01:52:27.480 --> 01:52:30.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because if they can, our system doesn't mean crap.
[01:52:31.240 --> 01:52:38.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: If it can be thwarted that easily, then it's, you know, there's no power left.
[01:52:39.320 --> 01:52:40.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's a little crazy.
[01:52:40.840 --> 01:52:46.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: You cut out for me there, because I lose audio, too, when, you know, when this network is not functioning.
[01:52:47.220 --> 01:52:48.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: When what cuts off?
[01:52:50.280 --> 01:52:53.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wait, I don't know when, what context, when...
[01:52:53.650 --> 01:52:57.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: You just said if it can be cut off that easily, what was the it?
[01:52:57.820 --> 01:53:00.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: It being the judiciary branch.
[01:53:00.580 --> 01:53:10.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: If they're saying Congress controls the budget, and they can cut off the budget, threatening these judges that rule against Trump.
[01:53:11.320 --> 01:53:13.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, well, they can threaten the judges.
[01:53:14.200 --> 01:53:22.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: The judges should, you know, they're literally going to be perhaps the last bulwark of this republic that we have at this point.
[01:53:23.340 --> 01:53:44.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think our caller was right to bring up the fact that it is extraordinarily terrible and scary that Trump has been targeting law firms with executive orders that would essentially punish them and is now demanding that they perform pro bono work on issues that he supports.
[01:53:45.240 --> 01:53:50.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: And this is an insane time here.
[01:53:50.980 --> 01:53:59.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, and if all these law firms are bowing down to him, then we're losing the defenders of democracy here.
[01:53:59.980 --> 01:54:01.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're losing the defenders of the Bill of Rights.
[01:54:02.420 --> 01:54:06.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, lawyers here are really the foot soldiers in this fight, because if you...
[01:54:06.920 --> 01:54:15.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: The judiciary will have nothing to rule upon if there aren't lawyers to file lawsuits and complaints and motions and injunctions to stop Trump.
[01:54:16.240 --> 01:54:18.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a really insane situation.
[01:54:18.140 --> 01:54:35.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: And so, you know, most of the AMLA 100s, the big firms, especially the firms that have been associated with any kind of progressive causes, they all, I think, right now, are expecting more executive orders to come.
[01:54:35.360 --> 01:54:41.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: The Financial Times has even reported that more executive orders are likely coming, perhaps even as soon as next week.
[01:54:41.280 --> 01:54:43.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: That could be targeting other law firms.
[01:54:43.240 --> 01:54:53.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: So all these firms, if I were their chairman, unlike the chairman of Paul Weiss, I would not bend over for Trump here.
[01:54:53.560 --> 01:55:04.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: I would start preparing my complaint and my application for injunctive relief to keep the status quo and to prevent the executive order from having any effect.
[01:55:04.700 --> 01:55:19.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: And if an executive order comes out targeting my firm, what I would do is I would file that lawsuit immediately, I mean, within the hour, be down and ready to get it done.
[01:55:20.000 --> 01:55:21.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Be really prepared here.
[01:55:22.100 --> 01:55:24.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you can't wait until it happens.
[01:55:24.700 --> 01:55:27.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have to start preparing for this now.
[01:55:27.500 --> 01:55:27.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[01:55:28.000 --> 01:55:28.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I agree with that.
[01:55:28.960 --> 01:55:39.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's one thing when you see, um, uh, major tech companies, uh, uh, bowing down to Trump and, and, and yielding to him, um, that can't happen with legal firms.
[01:55:39.460 --> 01:55:41.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: That can't happen with journalists.
[01:55:42.160 --> 01:55:51.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: There are certain parts of society that have to stand up to this and, um, uh, they can't cave and we have to make sure that they don't.
[01:55:51.720 --> 01:55:55.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: We have to make sure we support them, that they are strong enough to fight.
[01:55:55.840 --> 01:56:07.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, um, you know, that's how you get journalists like, like, you know, uh, Jeffrey Goldberg standing up to this crap, you know, and basically being able to, um, uh, act well under pressure.
[01:56:07.560 --> 01:56:13.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: And believe me, there's a lot of pressure that is being thrown his way now and the Atlantic and journalists everywhere.
[01:56:14.220 --> 01:56:18.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: And this kind of thing will happen again, as, as a previous caller said.
[01:56:18.720 --> 01:56:30.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, it's, um, you know, what, what, what also, um, uh, uh, really got me this, the last couple of weeks is realizing that there are different levels of justice in this country.
[01:56:30.480 --> 01:56:39.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that just because you are in the country legally doesn't mean you have the same rights as somebody who was born here.
[01:56:39.240 --> 01:56:49.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, people who have legal status, or people who have lived in this country since they were a child, but they weren't born in this country, they can be rounded up in the street.
[01:56:49.140 --> 01:56:50.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've seen videos of this.
[01:56:50.200 --> 01:56:54.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: They can be rounded up in the street because they were at a demonstration.
[01:56:54.500 --> 01:56:55.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, this sounds like Russia.
[01:56:56.120 --> 01:57:02.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: They, they, they were at a demonstration, or they signed a petition, or they did something that the regime does not like.
[01:57:02.860 --> 01:57:06.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: And now they're going to be sent to a foreign country.
[01:57:06.520 --> 01:57:17.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're going to be expelled from the only land they may know, or from a land that they are engaged in studies in, or just, you know, it's a major part of who they are.
[01:57:17.800 --> 01:57:18.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: It is who they are.
[01:57:18.560 --> 01:57:41.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: And what we assume can never happen does happen if you are not pure, if you were not born here, if you're not somebody... And even those people, I'm seeing threats against people who commit violent crimes, but were born in this country, of being sent to another country to be in a horrible prison there.
[01:57:42.220 --> 01:57:43.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: So don't think they're going to stop.
[01:57:44.080 --> 01:57:45.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: Don't think they're going to stop.
[01:57:45.400 --> 01:57:50.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: They'll go for another crime after that, a crime that we all would say, oh, that's a horrible crime.
[01:57:50.340 --> 01:57:51.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: Of course, you should get rid of those people.
[01:57:52.400 --> 01:57:55.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: But then it'll start becoming more and more familiar to us.
[01:57:55.200 --> 01:58:01.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: It'll start becoming, you know, that person down the block, and people who just don't know when to keep their mouth shut.
[01:58:03.400 --> 01:58:05.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's starting now.
[01:58:05.240 --> 01:58:08.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I'm tempted to say, that's how it starts.
[01:58:09.000 --> 01:58:12.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, today, that is how it starts, what you're seeing today.
[01:58:13.520 --> 01:58:19.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's why, yeah, we have to get our show on the road and prepare for this.
[01:58:20.200 --> 01:58:20.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[01:58:24.560 --> 01:58:26.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: No one's going to argue with me.
[01:58:26.180 --> 01:58:28.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: No one's going to say, yeah, I agree completely.
[01:58:28.740 --> 01:58:30.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, no.
[01:58:31.060 --> 01:58:33.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think it's just... Yeah.
[01:58:33.500 --> 01:58:34.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead, Alex.
[01:58:34.840 --> 01:58:36.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's getting late here.
[01:58:36.440 --> 01:58:37.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, you're lying down on a bed.
[01:58:37.940 --> 01:58:38.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know.
[01:58:38.820 --> 01:58:39.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know.
[01:58:39.240 --> 01:58:40.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's your choice to be in London, all right?
[01:58:41.720 --> 01:58:42.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[01:58:42.820 --> 01:58:45.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: The fight continues, Alex, no matter what time of day it is.
[01:58:46.460 --> 01:58:47.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: Or the country, I guess.
[01:58:48.100 --> 01:58:49.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, we're going to take one last phone call.
[01:58:49.880 --> 01:58:51.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I understand this from a very special caller.
[01:58:51.880 --> 01:58:52.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good evening.
[01:58:52.320 --> 01:58:54.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:58:54.260 --> 01:58:54.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead.
[01:58:55.640 --> 01:58:56.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: I am annual.
[01:58:56.640 --> 01:58:58.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: It is from a very special caller.
[01:58:58.340 --> 01:59:00.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, Rebel, you know, usually you're number one.
[01:59:00.900 --> 01:59:02.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: And today, you're the last call.
[01:59:02.520 --> 01:59:04.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if that's ever happened on any radio show.
[01:59:05.760 --> 01:59:09.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean, I just had hernia surgery the end of the day.
[01:59:09.420 --> 01:59:10.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, my goodness.
[01:59:10.080 --> 01:59:10.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's horrible.
[01:59:10.900 --> 01:59:12.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's good you had the surgery.
[01:59:12.160 --> 01:59:13.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, boy, that must have sucked.
[01:59:14.740 --> 01:59:15.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it really does.
[01:59:16.020 --> 01:59:19.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, when I'm recovering, it's just good that I'm recovering.
[01:59:19.760 --> 01:59:24.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, well, it just happens.
[01:59:24.460 --> 01:59:25.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: The hernia happens.
[01:59:25.040 --> 01:59:29.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I guess, yeah, as you get older, I mean, but it's common.
[01:59:29.720 --> 01:59:31.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, my sister had it.
[01:59:31.260 --> 01:59:33.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: My brother-in-law had it.
[01:59:34.400 --> 01:59:35.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: People have it, you know.
[01:59:35.660 --> 01:59:36.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: It sometimes happens.
[01:59:36.460 --> 01:59:39.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: People think of hernias as, oh, you lift something too heavy.
[01:59:39.640 --> 01:59:41.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I didn't lift anything heavy.
[01:59:41.240 --> 01:59:43.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I mean, it did work out.
[01:59:43.300 --> 01:59:44.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, did, like, pull up the chest.
[01:59:45.100 --> 01:59:49.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, like, hung from a bar that, you know, like one of those pull-up bars.
[01:59:49.340 --> 01:59:50.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I don't think that's it.
[01:59:51.360 --> 01:59:57.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, people have hernias that don't cause them problems that they have for years.
[01:59:58.100 --> 01:59:59.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: Some people have big hernias.
[01:59:59.560 --> 02:00:00.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Some people have multiple hernias.
[02:00:01.040 --> 02:00:05.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: The important thing is to have it checked out and to have it taken care of.
[02:00:05.100 --> 02:00:09.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because it shouldn't be a big deal if you have it taken care of.
[02:00:12.720 --> 02:00:16.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was told that if I didn't take care of it, it would look like a groin hernia.
[02:00:16.540 --> 02:00:17.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: It would look like under my stomach.
[02:00:17.940 --> 02:00:21.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: But if I could strangle my intestines and you could die, is that true?
[02:00:21.840 --> 02:00:22.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Sure, yeah.
[02:00:22.320 --> 02:00:27.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you don't take care of anything, it could definitely do something like that.
[02:00:27.080 --> 02:00:29.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's why you always pay attention to your health.
[02:00:29.920 --> 02:00:33.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: And don't worry about what this is going to cost or anything like that.
[02:00:33.580 --> 02:00:36.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: You are entitled to be healthy.
[02:00:36.420 --> 02:00:36.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[02:00:36.840 --> 02:00:38.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the insurance pays for it, but of course.
[02:00:38.980 --> 02:00:39.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[02:00:39.160 --> 02:00:43.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: And even if they don't, you know, figure that out later.
[02:00:43.740 --> 02:00:44.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll just say that.
[02:00:44.280 --> 02:00:46.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'll just say.
[02:00:46.040 --> 02:00:46.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
[02:00:46.540 --> 02:00:48.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: That wasn't my thing.
[02:00:48.660 --> 02:00:51.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Somebody had a...
[02:00:52.120 --> 02:00:53.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Your hospital had a data breach.
[02:00:54.080 --> 02:00:54.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[02:00:54.340 --> 02:00:55.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how that happens.
[02:00:55.420 --> 02:00:56.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you have...
[02:00:56.320 --> 02:00:57.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I remember when we were thinking of...
[02:00:57.420 --> 02:01:02.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: I was looking at the hospital's computer that had a computer, a PC, like a monitor and a keyboard.
[02:01:03.040 --> 02:01:05.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I guess they were on Wi-Fi because it wasn't connected to anything.
[02:01:06.400 --> 02:01:06.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting.
[02:01:07.780 --> 02:01:09.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they can't prove you had a hernia.
[02:01:09.600 --> 02:01:10.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: How are they going to prove that?
[02:01:10.720 --> 02:01:11.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's no hernia anymore.
[02:01:11.960 --> 02:01:13.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, you know...
[02:01:13.360 --> 02:01:14.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, good luck with that.
[02:01:14.400 --> 02:01:14.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm fine.
[02:01:15.200 --> 02:01:15.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: Leave me alone.
[02:01:16.600 --> 02:01:18.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but let's see.
[02:01:18.820 --> 02:01:20.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: What else has been going on?
[02:01:20.340 --> 02:01:22.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Rebel, or has that pretty much taken up your world?
[02:01:23.340 --> 02:01:34.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's been taken out in recuperating and like laying down and not working for the next week and, you know, go on my computer and just, you know, and I could just watch you do videos and...
[02:01:34.860 --> 02:01:35.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, we were supposed to tell him.
[02:01:35.840 --> 02:01:36.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: What was the thing called?
[02:01:38.000 --> 02:01:38.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: W3M?
[02:01:38.800 --> 02:01:39.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: W3M?
[02:01:39.200 --> 02:01:40.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Did you know about W3M?
[02:01:40.460 --> 02:01:41.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Did you hear the...
[02:01:41.140 --> 02:01:41.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: I heard of it.
[02:01:41.880 --> 02:01:43.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is that the Word Browser?
[02:01:43.740 --> 02:01:44.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[02:01:44.220 --> 02:01:45.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a graphical...
[02:01:45.260 --> 02:01:46.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's a text-based...
[02:01:46.940 --> 02:01:47.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Four terminal, yeah.
[02:01:47.240 --> 02:01:48.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, four terminals.
[02:01:48.600 --> 02:01:49.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: It works.
[02:01:49.320 --> 02:01:53.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: So I go on my Linux Mint terminal and download...
[02:02:00.120 --> 02:02:01.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's what the caller said.
[02:02:01.840 --> 02:02:03.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, we don't have this, but yeah.
[02:02:03.900 --> 02:02:04.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: We haven't used it ourselves.
[02:02:05.740 --> 02:02:09.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: But we hear good things about it, and we hear them on this very airwave or whatever it's called.
[02:02:10.020 --> 02:02:10.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're passing along...
[02:02:10.760 --> 02:02:11.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and I go to Holtz.
[02:02:12.120 --> 02:02:12.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[02:02:12.800 --> 02:02:13.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sorry.
[02:02:15.560 --> 02:02:17.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me see if we can't at Holtz.
[02:02:18.920 --> 02:02:19.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: But...
[02:02:19.320 --> 02:02:20.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: I still have to get my tickets for it.
[02:02:21.220 --> 02:02:22.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I want to still go to Europe.
[02:02:22.480 --> 02:02:27.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this year I'd like to go to Switzerland, Italy, like Milan, Italy, this time.
[02:02:28.020 --> 02:02:35.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'd like to go to an odd country, you know, a country that people don't go to, like Uzbekistan or something like that.
[02:02:35.640 --> 02:02:37.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Might I suggest Moldova?
[02:02:37.640 --> 02:02:39.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's an incredible place.
[02:02:39.280 --> 02:02:39.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: It really is.
[02:02:39.840 --> 02:02:41.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, and you don't need to be there to go there.
[02:02:41.960 --> 02:02:42.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
[02:02:42.940 --> 02:02:43.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[02:02:43.220 --> 02:02:44.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: You go to Tajikistan.
[02:02:45.260 --> 02:02:46.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: What's wrong with Moldova?
[02:02:46.320 --> 02:02:47.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: We were there.
[02:02:47.200 --> 02:02:48.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: It was a beautiful place.
[02:02:48.240 --> 02:02:49.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you go there through Romania.
[02:02:49.740 --> 02:02:52.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: And if you hang out in Bucharest, that's a fun place, too.
[02:02:53.320 --> 02:02:58.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you can get there by way of Hungary, which isn't so pleasant.
[02:02:59.100 --> 02:03:01.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I guess, Switzerland's trains are very efficient.
[02:03:02.280 --> 02:03:02.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[02:03:03.020 --> 02:03:03.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[02:03:03.640 --> 02:03:04.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you know what?
[02:03:04.360 --> 02:03:21.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: If you take a tram in the streets, you know, you will not only see exactly when it's supposed to arrive, but when you're on that tram at every stop, it'll tell you all the other trams that are going to meet that tram at the stop that you're coming up to and what time they're going to be there.
[02:03:22.180 --> 02:03:29.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: And if any of that is more than, say, 15 seconds past when it's supposed to be there, people start getting agitated.
[02:03:30.220 --> 02:03:32.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: They really want things to be on time.
[02:03:33.080 --> 02:03:33.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[02:03:33.800 --> 02:03:34.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[02:03:34.540 --> 02:03:35.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's Switzerland.
[02:03:35.700 --> 02:03:36.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Where in Switzerland?
[02:03:37.380 --> 02:03:42.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I want to go to what's one of those cities called?
[02:03:42.560 --> 02:03:43.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Zurich, Switzerland.
[02:03:43.880 --> 02:03:49.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: And take a train up to Bern, Switzerland, which is the capital.
[02:03:50.060 --> 02:03:55.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: And take another train up to the other part of Switzerland.
[02:03:55.340 --> 02:03:56.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Basel?
[02:03:56.360 --> 02:03:56.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh.
[02:03:57.360 --> 02:03:57.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: No.
[02:03:57.960 --> 02:04:01.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: What's the one where they had the treaties back in the 70s?
[02:04:02.600 --> 02:04:03.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Blanking.
[02:04:03.240 --> 02:04:03.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[02:04:03.720 --> 02:04:04.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Geneva.
[02:04:04.460 --> 02:04:04.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Geneva.
[02:04:05.020 --> 02:04:05.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: There you go.
[02:04:05.500 --> 02:04:06.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: The Geneva Convention.
[02:04:06.860 --> 02:04:07.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[02:04:07.720 --> 02:04:08.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[02:04:08.580 --> 02:04:10.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is there a Geneva Convention Center, I wonder?
[02:04:12.040 --> 02:04:12.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: That'd be kind of cool.
[02:04:13.200 --> 02:04:13.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[02:04:13.980 --> 02:04:14.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[02:04:14.320 --> 02:04:18.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, Bern, Switzerland, that's where I got Geraldo Rivera's video camera stolen.
[02:04:18.800 --> 02:04:20.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I didn't get it stolen.
[02:04:20.500 --> 02:04:25.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: I was carrying it, and I slept in a hostel, and somebody stole it while I was sleeping.
[02:04:26.000 --> 02:04:28.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: And why would I have Geraldo Rivera's camera?
[02:04:28.760 --> 02:04:34.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: He used to do a program called Now It Can Be Told, and I was helping get footage of Dutch hackers.
[02:04:35.100 --> 02:04:36.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: And why was I in Switzerland?
[02:04:36.420 --> 02:04:37.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because I was on the way to Holland.
[02:04:37.960 --> 02:04:38.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'll get too many questions here.
[02:04:40.160 --> 02:04:42.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: And unfortunately, that's what happened.
[02:04:42.300 --> 02:04:56.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: But we made up for it by having a Dutch hacker film, the Dutch hacking that was going on, which resulted in the Dutch hacking tape that we released many years ago, back in the 90s, I think.
[02:04:56.780 --> 02:04:58.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, that's a little bit of history there.
[02:04:58.420 --> 02:04:58.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: The train to Milan.
[02:04:59.180 --> 02:05:00.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you were talking the whole time, weren't you?
[02:05:01.440 --> 02:05:02.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: What's this about the train to Milan?
[02:05:03.800 --> 02:05:09.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, then from Zurich, Switzerland, I'm going to take it, or wherever, Switzerland, Geneva, I'm going to take a train to Milan, Italy.
[02:05:10.700 --> 02:05:12.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, that's a good trip.
[02:05:13.440 --> 02:05:16.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yesterday, last year, I was in Rome, so...
[02:05:16.140 --> 02:05:18.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you'll be going through the Alps, and it'll be very scenic.
[02:05:18.800 --> 02:05:19.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[02:05:20.840 --> 02:05:22.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's when I take the train.
[02:05:23.480 --> 02:05:26.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know what, Rebel, you should take the Trans-Siberian Express.
[02:05:27.860 --> 02:05:29.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to do that, no, thank you.
[02:05:29.440 --> 02:05:31.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't even want to take an Amtrak train to Florida.
[02:05:32.220 --> 02:05:33.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wait, hold on a second.
[02:05:34.640 --> 02:05:41.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: Nobody has ever said that I'd rather not take the Trans-Siberian Express, I prefer to take Amtrak to Florida.
[02:05:41.980 --> 02:05:42.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[02:05:42.760 --> 02:05:46.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't say, I said I'd rather not, I wouldn't even take an Amtrak.
[02:05:46.220 --> 02:05:47.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't take a train overnight.
[02:05:47.960 --> 02:05:48.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just too annoying.
[02:05:48.940 --> 02:05:52.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wait, you're talking about all these train trips, and you won't take a train overnight?
[02:05:54.400 --> 02:05:55.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how to handle it.
[02:05:55.740 --> 02:05:56.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[02:05:56.000 --> 02:05:57.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: I did it once.
[02:06:00.040 --> 02:06:01.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's very pleasant, you know.
[02:06:01.360 --> 02:06:02.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: I like taking trains.
[02:06:02.600 --> 02:06:03.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's very pleasant.
[02:06:03.560 --> 02:06:06.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: I like taking trains for a few hours, four hours or five hours.
[02:06:06.260 --> 02:06:08.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: But being on a train for days...
[02:06:08.220 --> 02:06:11.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's... well, I mean, you know, if you're an adventurer, this is the kind of thing you do.
[02:06:12.960 --> 02:06:13.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's, you know...
[02:06:14.640 --> 02:06:16.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you can also... you can break it up.
[02:06:16.880 --> 02:06:23.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: You can, you know, get off at a particular city, spend a couple of days there, then get on the next train that's continuing in your direction.
[02:06:24.460 --> 02:06:25.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's what I did when I took it.
[02:06:25.620 --> 02:06:33.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, you go through Russia, you go through Mongolia, you wind up in Beijing, and then you find your way from there.
[02:06:33.500 --> 02:06:34.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: But it's all really interesting.
[02:06:34.900 --> 02:06:34.900]  That's right.
[02:06:35.120 --> 02:06:36.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to go to China one day.
[02:06:36.920 --> 02:06:38.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's a good way to get there.
[02:06:41.320 --> 02:06:43.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, Rebel, we got to go because it's late.
[02:06:43.580 --> 02:06:46.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you called us late, but we're happy to hear you're recovering.
[02:06:48.980 --> 02:06:50.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: And don't get another one.
[02:06:51.800 --> 02:06:52.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I know.
[02:06:52.540 --> 02:06:54.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't get... that's what I'm afraid of.
[02:06:54.480 --> 02:06:56.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you can... my sister did her hernia.
[02:06:57.660 --> 02:07:02.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how that happens, but I really wouldn't want to know.
[02:07:02.780 --> 02:07:08.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, just keep getting checkups, like maybe every six months, just have it, you know, looked at, make sure it's progressing nicely.
[02:07:08.640 --> 02:07:10.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's the best thing you can do.
[02:07:12.180 --> 02:07:12.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[02:07:12.960 --> 02:07:13.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[02:07:13.520 --> 02:07:14.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, I'm taking pain medication.
[02:07:14.800 --> 02:07:17.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I did not take the pain medication that the hospital did.
[02:07:17.880 --> 02:07:19.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like they did the opioids.
[02:07:19.100 --> 02:07:20.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: I said, I do not want that.
[02:07:20.700 --> 02:07:21.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's smart.
[02:07:21.540 --> 02:07:21.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good man.
[02:07:22.160 --> 02:07:22.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[02:07:23.260 --> 02:07:26.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I told my friend, you know, maybe, maybe I could smoke some marijuana.
[02:07:26.980 --> 02:07:27.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[02:07:27.420 --> 02:07:27.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, that's...
[02:07:27.880 --> 02:07:28.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Smoke lots of marijuana.
[02:07:28.440 --> 02:07:29.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's actually good for you.
[02:07:29.740 --> 02:07:30.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: That actually will help.
[02:07:30.800 --> 02:07:35.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Actually, you know, I could, you know, drink liquor and get drunk, but, you know...
[02:07:35.060 --> 02:07:36.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's not good for you.
[02:07:36.180 --> 02:07:36.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: That won't help.
[02:07:36.980 --> 02:07:37.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: It won't help at all.
[02:07:38.180 --> 02:07:39.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Did they tell you anything?
[02:07:39.400 --> 02:07:41.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is there anything you could do to prevent hernias?
[02:07:41.460 --> 02:07:43.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like, is there any, like, prevention guidelines?
[02:07:43.600 --> 02:07:43.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[02:07:43.800 --> 02:07:44.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[02:07:44.940 --> 02:07:45.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: It just happened...
[02:07:46.240 --> 02:07:47.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what...
[02:07:47.080 --> 02:07:47.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: Just out of nowhere?
[02:07:47.640 --> 02:07:47.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: It just...
[02:07:47.880 --> 02:07:51.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: It happened, like, almost two months ago, or...
[02:07:51.480 --> 02:07:55.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, I was doing, like, some, like, chin-ups with a friend.
[02:07:55.380 --> 02:07:56.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I was...
[02:07:56.420 --> 02:07:57.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think this did it.
[02:07:58.060 --> 02:08:00.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: The chin-ups, and, like, I was hanging on a bar, like...
[02:08:00.720 --> 02:08:03.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, instead of doing chin-ups on a bar, you just sort of hang there?
[02:08:03.800 --> 02:08:04.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah.
[02:08:04.300 --> 02:08:10.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think that did it, but, I mean, like, a few weeks later, that's when I started feeling a slump, you know?
[02:08:11.640 --> 02:08:14.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, by my dick, I obviously went out on the air.
[02:08:14.760 --> 02:08:15.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: I could say that.
[02:08:16.640 --> 02:08:17.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but should you?
[02:08:17.960 --> 02:08:19.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, let's put it bluntly.
[02:08:20.400 --> 02:08:22.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's not as blunt as you can get, but okay.
[02:08:22.400 --> 02:08:23.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Was it painful?
[02:08:24.380 --> 02:08:27.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: It would be a little painful, and then it would go away.
[02:08:27.960 --> 02:08:32.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then, like, sometimes it would be not painful, debilitating painful.
[02:08:32.660 --> 02:08:34.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: I could walk, but I could walk a little slowly.
[02:08:35.100 --> 02:08:37.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes you have to sit down a little slowly, and, you know.
[02:08:38.080 --> 02:08:42.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, the important thing is you went and had it checked, and they said, you need surgery for this, right?
[02:08:42.380 --> 02:08:42.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[02:08:43.020 --> 02:08:44.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so that's it.
[02:08:44.400 --> 02:08:45.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: You have something checked.
[02:08:45.460 --> 02:08:49.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: I have a small hernia myself, and the doctor says, yeah, it's not bothering you.
[02:08:49.220 --> 02:08:49.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're fine.
[02:08:50.180 --> 02:08:53.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: But it could one day, and then, you know, then I'll deal with it then.
[02:08:53.240 --> 02:08:55.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: But now it had, like, a belly button hernia.
[02:08:55.340 --> 02:08:56.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, one of those.
[02:08:57.860 --> 02:08:58.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: So...
[02:08:58.240 --> 02:08:58.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, yeah.
[02:09:00.420 --> 02:09:00.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[02:09:01.040 --> 02:09:04.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Anyone else want to talk about their body and what's on it?
[02:09:05.200 --> 02:09:08.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: I had a hernia taken care of.
[02:09:08.260 --> 02:09:11.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: I believe I was three or four years old at the time.
[02:09:11.640 --> 02:09:12.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: You had a hernia at three?
[02:09:13.560 --> 02:09:14.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: My God.
[02:09:14.620 --> 02:09:15.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[02:09:15.300 --> 02:09:19.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: You came into this world on all fours, man.
[02:09:20.000 --> 02:09:20.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[02:09:20.720 --> 02:09:21.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: That is something.
[02:09:21.940 --> 02:09:22.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[02:09:22.420 --> 02:09:25.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: I did not smoke marijuana to deal with the aftermath, though.
[02:09:25.360 --> 02:09:29.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it wasn't legal back then, but if you were a three-year-old today, I would recommend it.
[02:09:29.740 --> 02:09:30.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not a requirement.
[02:09:30.860 --> 02:09:31.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: No.
[02:09:31.880 --> 02:09:32.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'm not smoking.
[02:09:33.060 --> 02:09:35.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: I recommend the gummies, but no, I'm not recommending any of that.
[02:09:35.600 --> 02:09:36.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I don't...
[02:09:36.180 --> 02:09:38.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's not good for a three-year-old, but neither are hernias.
[02:09:38.300 --> 02:09:40.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: I wish you could hack our bodies, like hack the hernia.
[02:09:41.220 --> 02:09:43.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, you know...
[02:09:43.060 --> 02:09:44.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: I sense a hope talk here.
[02:09:45.100 --> 02:09:45.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hack the hernia.
[02:09:46.120 --> 02:09:46.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Whoa.
[02:09:46.840 --> 02:09:47.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rerouted.
[02:09:47.720 --> 02:09:48.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hack your hard bodies.
[02:09:49.060 --> 02:09:50.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a good talk for hope.
[02:09:51.120 --> 02:09:51.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[02:09:51.780 --> 02:10:12.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we're in an age where there's ever eminently more ability to understand all of these things and tools and just the mystery of a lot of it is it seems like it's disappearing and shedding away every day.
[02:10:12.320 --> 02:10:24.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: So perhaps, yeah, your story could be something, a subject of a talk or things like it regarding the just, you know, bio, biology.
[02:10:24.160 --> 02:10:30.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, yeah, there's so much going on with that in general, bioscience.
[02:10:30.820 --> 02:10:36.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: So please take note of your stories out there, everyone, and share.
[02:10:36.380 --> 02:10:36.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[02:10:36.660 --> 02:10:40.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: And now you can help other people, too, are going through similar things with your experiences.
[02:10:40.520 --> 02:10:42.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, Rebel, we've got to go because it's getting late.
[02:10:42.900 --> 02:10:45.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Any final sentence, if you want?
[02:10:46.300 --> 02:10:58.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: I wish they had a thing like a small portable x-ray of someone that one could just, if they're having stomach pains or cramps or whatever, put on their stomach or tummy or whatever, see what's going on inside.
[02:10:58.560 --> 02:11:03.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: The doctor could say, oh, that's a whatever, or that's, you know, maybe you're earning on it.
[02:11:03.560 --> 02:11:04.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, hang on.
[02:11:04.360 --> 02:11:17.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, rather than walk around with an x-ray wand, which no doubt would be misused on your enemies, but when you go to the doctor who tells you that, he's probably got an x-ray setup where there's one down the road that you can do pretty easily.
[02:11:17.280 --> 02:11:21.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: So that's, I think that's a better way to do it because x-rays, you're not supposed to have a whole lot of those.
[02:11:21.100 --> 02:11:24.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's very small portable ultrasound now.
[02:11:24.420 --> 02:11:25.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right, that you can walk around with?
[02:11:25.720 --> 02:11:38.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think it's, like, enough to fit in your pocket, but there are, the technologies like that are getting smaller and more portable, especially for places that are far flung and don't have larger systems.
[02:11:38.080 --> 02:11:42.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think the imaging places should be the places where those exist, though, not in people's, you know...
[02:11:42.340 --> 02:11:44.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely, yeah, you want someone trained to know how to use it.
[02:11:45.060 --> 02:11:48.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: You don't want to, like, see some shadow of something...
[02:11:48.940 --> 02:11:50.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, let's see what's inside the cat.
[02:11:50.300 --> 02:11:51.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, we don't want to do that.
[02:11:51.500 --> 02:11:53.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then, you know, you misdiagnose yourself.
[02:11:53.940 --> 02:11:57.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: You need someone who understands what that kind of imaging is.
[02:11:57.420 --> 02:12:02.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: But certainly, the possibilities are changing all the time.
[02:12:02.180 --> 02:12:02.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: All the time.
[02:12:02.640 --> 02:12:04.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we have these very powerful computers.
[02:12:04.860 --> 02:12:05.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we have the Internet.
[02:12:06.120 --> 02:12:06.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: God help us.
[02:12:08.860 --> 02:12:09.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, Rebel.
[02:12:09.820 --> 02:12:10.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Pleasure hearing you.
[02:12:10.820 --> 02:12:12.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: And stay healthy.
[02:12:12.500 --> 02:12:12.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Get better.
[02:12:13.540 --> 02:12:13.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[02:12:14.220 --> 02:12:14.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[02:12:15.880 --> 02:12:19.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: And for the first time in history, Rebel is closing the show.
[02:12:20.340 --> 02:12:21.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we are done here.
[02:12:22.340 --> 02:12:27.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: Guys out in Signalville, Signal-land, any last words?
[02:12:27.700 --> 02:12:29.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: In fact, I'm going to insist that you all have last words.
[02:12:31.000 --> 02:12:33.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: You decide who goes first and who goes last.
[02:12:34.340 --> 02:12:35.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll jump in, then.
[02:12:35.480 --> 02:12:36.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll just say goodnight.
[02:12:36.640 --> 02:12:37.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's late.
[02:12:37.860 --> 02:12:38.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: See you all soon.
[02:12:39.260 --> 02:12:40.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Safe travels, Alex.
[02:12:40.860 --> 02:12:41.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: You sure?
[02:12:41.340 --> 02:12:41.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[02:12:41.460 --> 02:12:43.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's what you want to say, Alex, because that's kind of controversial there.
[02:12:43.980 --> 02:12:45.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Before I start cracking up here.
[02:12:47.500 --> 02:12:49.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm surprised you stayed the whole time.
[02:12:49.400 --> 02:12:52.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: I said you should go after 30 minutes, but you stuck around.
[02:12:52.020 --> 02:12:52.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: I know.
[02:12:52.480 --> 02:12:53.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just said, you know, f*ck it.
[02:12:54.020 --> 02:12:54.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll just stick around.
[02:12:56.020 --> 02:12:57.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I am exhausted.
[02:12:57.680 --> 02:13:01.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to hang up as soon as we drop here.
[02:13:01.180 --> 02:13:02.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you have to hear what Rob and Gila say.
[02:13:02.980 --> 02:13:04.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: That would be rude for you to hang up on them.
[02:13:06.040 --> 02:13:14.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think all I'll say is I'd like to point out to everyone following the news that we were using a Signal group call before it was cool.
[02:13:15.660 --> 02:13:17.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Two, three weeks before it was cool.
[02:13:17.760 --> 02:13:18.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's true.
[02:13:20.420 --> 02:13:21.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: And I will also say goodnight.
[02:13:21.900 --> 02:13:25.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you to the 49 people who hung with us the whole time tonight.
[02:13:27.440 --> 02:13:32.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, shout out to the good folks at Ray Gunn for already creating a We're Clean on OPSEC t-shirt.
[02:13:33.340 --> 02:13:34.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: Very cool.
[02:13:35.240 --> 02:13:35.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[02:13:36.020 --> 02:13:37.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're clean on OPSEC.
[02:13:37.200 --> 02:13:37.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hold my beer.
[02:13:40.800 --> 02:13:41.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Unbelievable.
[02:13:42.100 --> 02:13:42.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, everybody.
[02:13:42.700 --> 02:13:43.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: Have a good night.
[02:13:43.900 --> 02:13:45.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Don't take things too seriously.
[02:13:45.480 --> 02:13:46.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we'll see you next week.
[02:13:47.400 --> 02:13:47.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Goodnight.
[02:13:48.180 --> 02:13:48.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: Goodnight, all.
[02:13:49.040 --> 02:13:49.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bye.