[00:37.160 --> 00:40.360] [SPEAKER_02]: If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and try again.
[00:40.660 --> 00:43.980] [SPEAKER_02]: If you need help, hang up and then dial your operator.
[00:46.120 --> 00:49.320] [SPEAKER_02]: If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and try again.
[00:49.620 --> 00:52.980] [SPEAKER_02]: If you need help, hang up and then dial your operator.
[02:35.050 --> 02:36.790] [SPEAKER_01]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:36.910 --> 02:38.430] [SPEAKER_01]: The program is off the hook.
[02:38.550 --> 02:41.770] [SPEAKER_01]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:42.170 --> 02:44.010] [SPEAKER_01]: Joined tonight by Kyle.
[02:44.290 --> 02:44.870] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, what?
[02:45.310 --> 02:46.490] [SPEAKER_01]: And out in Skype.
[02:46.710 --> 02:47.670] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, not Skype.
[02:47.790 --> 02:48.510] [SPEAKER_01]: What am I talking about?
[02:48.630 --> 02:49.250] [SPEAKER_01]: Signal-land.
[02:49.590 --> 02:50.730] [SPEAKER_01]: We have Alex.
[02:51.250 --> 02:52.070] [SPEAKER_03]: You do indeed.
[02:52.270 --> 02:52.590] [SPEAKER_03]: Good evening.
[02:52.590 --> 03:01.510] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's kind of a skeleton crew tonight and also a shorter program than usual because we're not doing overtime over on YouTube, which we usually do after the show.
[03:01.670 --> 03:02.090] [SPEAKER_01]: Why?
[03:02.230 --> 03:04.970] [SPEAKER_01]: Because we're doing a call-in show today on WBAI.
[03:05.330 --> 03:14.270] [SPEAKER_01]: And that means we're inviting people who have not called us in the past couple of weeks to call us here so that you can say your piece.
[03:14.390 --> 03:16.830] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll give out the phone number in just a couple of minutes.
[03:16.830 --> 03:21.030] [SPEAKER_01]: We have some breaking news, I guess, some interesting news.
[03:21.730 --> 03:23.690] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is kind of interesting.
[03:23.770 --> 03:27.830] [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, the notorious board known as 4chan has been hacked.
[03:28.350 --> 03:31.110] [SPEAKER_01]: And their internal data has been leaked.
[03:31.650 --> 03:33.350] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is according to TechCrunch.
[03:33.350 --> 03:37.030] [SPEAKER_01]: At the time of the writing, 4chan's website was not loading.
[03:37.430 --> 03:43.010] [SPEAKER_01]: And users on social media reported the site being intermittently down for hours.
[03:43.270 --> 03:55.690] [SPEAKER_01]: Messages on a rival message board celebrated the hack with one person claiming that the hacker responsible for the breach was inside 4chan's system for over a year.
[03:56.830 --> 03:57.370] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[03:57.590 --> 03:57.750] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[03:58.710 --> 04:10.550] [SPEAKER_01]: Given 4chan's known violent political ties, this cyber attack could potentially expose the people who run these forums, which have become central to alt-right movements.
[04:11.230 --> 04:22.270] [SPEAKER_01]: TechCrunch reached out to several email addresses that were leaked and spoke to one of the people behind one of the email addresses, one 4chan janitor, and I have no idea what that means.
[04:22.270 --> 04:25.250] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess they were, what, a maintainer of one sort or another?
[04:26.810 --> 04:30.010] [SPEAKER_01]: One of these janitors spoke to TechCrunch on the condition of a non-nimity.
[04:30.010 --> 04:30.830] [SPEAKER_01]: Good luck with that.
[04:30.970 --> 04:32.850] [SPEAKER_01]: Everything is out in public.
[04:33.350 --> 04:36.750] [SPEAKER_01]: They said they are confident the leaked data and screenshots are all real.
[04:36.750 --> 04:39.390] [SPEAKER_01]: I have no reason to believe otherwise, the janitor said.
[04:40.290 --> 04:47.650] [SPEAKER_01]: Somewhat taken aback, 4chan's moderation team has had leaks in the past, but this is obviously an issue of greater magnitude.
[04:48.030 --> 04:49.790] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not happy about the situation.
[04:49.790 --> 04:54.890] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure most others aren't either, but many of us have been doing this for a long time.
[04:55.550 --> 05:03.050] [SPEAKER_01]: Doxing is a long-standing pastime on 4chan, and the possibility that we could be exposed has always been there.
[05:03.150 --> 05:07.230] [SPEAKER_01]: He went on to say, I've been most concerned with the leaked information for obvious reasons.
[05:07.230 --> 05:18.530] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd wager that the fact that 4chan was effectively taken over by a hacker or hackers is probably worse than screenshots, at least from the perspective of the site's continued operation.
[05:18.850 --> 05:28.210] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, according to a headline in Wired, suspected 4chan hack could expose long-time anonymous admins.
[05:28.450 --> 05:33.830] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so the day of anonymity may have come to an end.
[05:33.830 --> 05:40.190] [SPEAKER_01]: And the core feature, of course, 4chan provides is public anonymity to post text and images.
[05:40.830 --> 05:45.570] [SPEAKER_01]: But the platform itself does collect information about users, such as their IP addresses.
[05:46.030 --> 05:53.550] [SPEAKER_01]: And as a result, a breach of the website could represent a significant exposure of data that was intended to be private.
[05:54.330 --> 05:56.410] [SPEAKER_01]: Alex, what do you think about this?
[05:57.450 --> 05:59.010] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's pretty fascinating.
[05:59.010 --> 06:20.970] [SPEAKER_03]: It seems like the hack, or rather the breach, occurred because 4chan was running some kind of older software, or an older version of PHP in particular, and the manner in which they were interacting with the back-end MySQL database seemed to have been some kind of deprecated form.
[06:20.970 --> 06:30.830] [SPEAKER_03]: So, it doesn't surprise me, I think, in the least, that there were some attackers that had access to this information for an extended period of time.
[06:31.130 --> 06:53.810] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that the issue of the information about, personal information of these janitors and these monitorators being leaked is also something that's going to be quite interesting to see over the next couple of days and perhaps weeks, because that seems to have been rather sensitive information for this particular board,
[06:53.810 --> 06:57.630] [SPEAKER_03]: which was really notorious when it comes to being...
[06:57.630 --> 07:04.990] [SPEAKER_03]: The reason for its existence was really one of these kind of free speech, absolutist-type places where you could say just about anything.
[07:06.130 --> 07:09.170] [SPEAKER_03]: And moderation was with a very, very light touch.
[07:10.530 --> 07:11.050] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[07:11.290 --> 07:11.750] [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead, Kyle.
[07:12.030 --> 07:17.570] [SPEAKER_04]: I sent flowers and my condolences to all of the victims of this.
[07:17.570 --> 07:19.730] [SPEAKER_04]: So, I felt so... I was just torn up.
[07:19.730 --> 07:21.290] [SPEAKER_01]: How did you know who to send the flowers to?
[07:21.550 --> 07:21.690] [SPEAKER_01]: I felt so badly.
[07:21.910 --> 07:23.110] [SPEAKER_04]: I was weeping.
[07:23.310 --> 07:24.110] [SPEAKER_04]: Because of the leak.
[07:24.290 --> 07:27.090] [SPEAKER_04]: I was just a total mess today thinking of the victims.
[07:27.910 --> 07:28.610] [SPEAKER_04]: Are you done?
[07:28.790 --> 07:29.350] [SPEAKER_04]: Are you finished?
[07:29.510 --> 07:30.070] [SPEAKER_04]: No, not at all.
[07:30.110 --> 07:30.870] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, good.
[07:30.950 --> 07:31.270] [SPEAKER_01]: Keep it up.
[07:31.550 --> 07:32.190] [SPEAKER_04]: But who will notice?
[07:32.310 --> 07:33.830] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, 4chan's like real life now, huh?
[07:34.510 --> 07:35.290] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what?
[07:35.410 --> 07:39.970] [SPEAKER_01]: As soon as you said free speech absolutist, I was like, you mean our government?
[07:40.050 --> 07:41.390] [SPEAKER_01]: What exactly...
[07:41.390 --> 07:44.430] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can't tell the difference anymore.
[07:44.430 --> 07:48.170] [SPEAKER_01]: So, maybe this could be a model for some future operations.
[07:49.130 --> 07:50.230] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm going to think about.
[07:51.270 --> 07:57.350] [SPEAKER_01]: Speaking of this kind of thing, a ransomware gang found themselves hacked as well.
[07:57.770 --> 08:05.010] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a leak site used by the Everest ransomware gang was hacked and defaced about a weekend ago.
[08:05.570 --> 08:16.550] [SPEAKER_01]: This also, according to TechCrunch, the leak site, which the ransomware gang used to publish stolen files to extort its victims into paying a ransom demand was replaced with a brief text note that said, don't do crime.
[08:16.650 --> 08:17.330] [SPEAKER_01]: Crime is bad.
[08:17.930 --> 08:19.070] [SPEAKER_01]: XOXO from Prague.
[08:20.230 --> 08:21.510] Yeah, I got it.
[08:21.610 --> 08:22.770] [SPEAKER_01]: I got to admire that.
[08:23.090 --> 08:28.990] [SPEAKER_01]: The site was still defaced at the time of the writing of this article, which was on April 7th.
[08:29.290 --> 08:33.650] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not clear if the gang also experienced a data breach as a result of the hack.
[08:35.170 --> 08:36.430] [SPEAKER_01]: I can't really...
[08:36.430 --> 08:43.570] [SPEAKER_01]: I have much sympathy for people who do this kind of thing finding themselves the victims.
[08:43.790 --> 08:48.410] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if their data was held for ransom, boy, that would be something, wouldn't it?
[08:48.630 --> 08:49.670] [SPEAKER_01]: How would they react?
[08:50.430 --> 09:07.030] [SPEAKER_01]: Everest is a prolific Russia-linked ransomware gang that has claimed credit for multiple hacks and data breaches since its inception in 2020, including the theft of more than 420,000 customers' data from cannabis retail chain STIZI.
[09:07.590 --> 09:07.910] [SPEAKER_01]: Huh.
[09:08.250 --> 09:09.790] [SPEAKER_01]: The U.S.
[09:09.950 --> 09:14.770] [SPEAKER_01]: government has also attributed several hacks to Everest, including breaches at the U.S.
[09:14.890 --> 09:17.390] [SPEAKER_01]: space agency, NASA, and the Brazilian government.
[09:17.890 --> 09:23.810] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, that's something else to keep in mind.
[09:25.910 --> 09:26.810] [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead, Alex.
[09:26.810 --> 09:37.950] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think it goes to show you, too, I mean, that these cybercriminal gangs are very much not immune to, I think, infighting, rivalry, being breached themselves.
[09:38.190 --> 09:43.290] [SPEAKER_03]: And this is by far not the first ransomware gang that has been breached in some manner or another.
[09:43.510 --> 10:00.190] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it was just a couple of years ago, Conti, which was known to be a Russian threat actor group that was really actually quite, I think, pervasive when it came to ransomware operations within the United States and targeting lots of critical infrastructure companies,
[10:00.510 --> 10:01.610] [SPEAKER_03]: payroll companies, et cetera.
[10:01.910 --> 10:07.370] [SPEAKER_03]: I had dealt with a couple of Conti incidents myself in the United Kingdom.
[10:08.010 --> 10:12.450] [SPEAKER_03]: And they were breached and all of their internal communications and chat logs were released.
[10:12.490 --> 10:16.330] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was a real eye-opener about how the negotiations happened.
[10:16.450 --> 10:23.170] [SPEAKER_03]: And so when these breaches happen, they always give you some kind of glimpse into the operations of these particular cyber criminals.
[10:23.470 --> 10:29.530] [SPEAKER_03]: And I always find it really fascinating, too, because these operations are usually pretty well-oiled.
[10:29.690 --> 10:30.390] [SPEAKER_03]: They're very efficient.
[10:30.390 --> 10:31.250] [SPEAKER_03]: They're really good.
[10:31.510 --> 10:35.370] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, they might not be the best defenders, but they're certainly good attackers.
[10:36.310 --> 10:56.890] [SPEAKER_03]: And one of the things that always stood out to me was that in the wake of dealing with a ransomware incident, whether it was Conti or Lockbit or, you know, some other, these other actors, I always found that their customer service for helping the victim decrypt the data once a ransom was paid was absolutely spectacular.
[10:57.330 --> 11:04.410] [SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, well, much, much better than you would get from any ordinary tech company or any ordinary tech platform.
[11:04.730 --> 11:06.710] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they really paid attention to detail.
[11:06.710 --> 11:13.350] [SPEAKER_03]: They would help you develop binaries to decrypt large amounts of data across your entire infrastructure.
[11:13.350 --> 11:23.110] [SPEAKER_03]: And so, getting any kind of visibility into the internal comms of these ransomware groups, I think, is always a good thing.
[11:23.410 --> 11:27.870] [SPEAKER_03]: And it also tends to disrupt them from further operations, which is even a better thing.
[11:28.070 --> 11:30.410] [SPEAKER_01]: The question, though, is, who did it?
[11:30.670 --> 11:32.830] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, who's behind this?
[11:33.090 --> 11:39.970] [SPEAKER_01]: Is there some other, even darker gang that is targeting the dark gangs that do this in the first place?
[11:40.770 --> 11:45.150] [SPEAKER_01]: I could really lose a lot of sleep wondering just what's going on out there.
[11:46.170 --> 11:49.470] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think it's quite possibly it could be a rival gang.
[11:49.610 --> 11:54.690] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, there's lots of infighting within the ecosystem, within the ransomware ecosystem, if you want to call it that.
[11:55.130 --> 11:56.830] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of that going around.
[11:56.970 --> 12:11.490] [SPEAKER_03]: But then also, these groups tend to be infiltrated in one way or another, very often by cybersecurity researchers who will create some form of synthetic identity, interact with the ransomware group and ultimately join the group.
[12:11.770 --> 12:22.490] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's quite likely, in my opinion, that that's perhaps how one of these breaches has occurred, that somebody who infiltrated the organization decided to finally disrupt it.
[12:23.190 --> 12:23.270] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[12:23.550 --> 12:24.590] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, definitely.
[12:25.450 --> 12:31.970] [SPEAKER_04]: When your group is meeting, be aware and skeptical of people with talent and skills.
[12:32.270 --> 12:37.530] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, don't laud them too much because you might be playing right into their hand.
[12:38.870 --> 12:39.310] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[12:39.710 --> 12:40.150] [SPEAKER_01]: Very true.
[12:40.370 --> 12:40.670] [SPEAKER_01]: Very true.
[12:41.970 --> 12:42.410] [SPEAKER_01]: More...
[12:42.990 --> 12:43.910] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have something else, Alex?
[12:45.330 --> 12:45.990] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah.
[12:46.070 --> 12:52.330] [SPEAKER_03]: The other thing I was going to say is this does come on the heels of, I think, what is notable, too, within 2024.
[12:52.610 --> 12:53.230] [SPEAKER_03]: We're really...
[12:53.230 --> 13:03.310] [SPEAKER_03]: It's scary how fast 2025 is going by, but in 2024, I think there was an actual decline in ransomware payments to these particular groups.
[13:03.310 --> 13:15.150] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think that could be a cause of further infighting that they could be trying to disrupt each other so that they can have a larger share of the market for ransomware...
[13:15.150 --> 13:21.370] [SPEAKER_03]: for creating ransomware incidents, which is, look, if they want to fight each other, that's fine with us, right?
[13:21.470 --> 13:24.630] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, our enemy's enemy is our friend in some respects.
[13:26.650 --> 13:27.130] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[13:27.410 --> 13:28.090] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think so.
[13:28.970 --> 13:29.450] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[13:29.450 --> 13:30.990] [SPEAKER_01]: Something else that's going on.
[13:31.250 --> 13:32.030] [SPEAKER_01]: A little bit of chaos.
[13:32.770 --> 13:34.550] [SPEAKER_01]: Zoom appears to be down.
[13:35.770 --> 13:44.570] [SPEAKER_01]: Users began reporting outages on the popular video conferencing platform basically midday today.
[13:45.510 --> 13:54.910] [SPEAKER_01]: And as of a half hour ago, looks like tens of thousands at least are still unable to access the conferencing software.
[13:55.630 --> 13:59.870] [SPEAKER_01]: Zoom has confirmed this outage is impacting all Zoom customers.
[13:59.870 --> 14:06.910] [SPEAKER_01]: They are working to investigate and remediate the root cause and will provide updates when they have updates.
[14:07.850 --> 14:15.270] [SPEAKER_01]: Some of the pages on Zoom's website were inaccessible and the company didn't immediately respond to a request for comment from USA Today.
[14:15.650 --> 14:17.910] [SPEAKER_01]: However, just before 5 p.m.
[14:18.390 --> 14:26.510] [SPEAKER_01]: Eastern time, Zoom posted on Twitter that service has now been restored after the earlier outage and we sincerely appreciate your patience and understanding.
[14:26.830 --> 14:28.230] [SPEAKER_01]: But people are still reporting problems.
[14:29.730 --> 14:37.130] [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess if you had a Zoom meeting today, you have a good excuse for getting out of it because this is just yet another technological failure.
[14:37.650 --> 14:46.070] [SPEAKER_04]: I was just thinking this might be a good bit of news for people that are for maybe I want to say half, maybe less.
[14:46.170 --> 14:53.530] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what the ratio would be but you got to imagine there's a considerable amount of people that loathe being on Zoom for whatever their meetings are.
[14:53.630 --> 15:10.230] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure there's a lot of people to get great joy out of their Zoom interactions but there's a lot of people forced to be on Zoom meetings so this could be, like you said, a relief from the grind of Zooming in on your colleagues or whatever interactions you're having.
[15:10.570 --> 15:19.110] [SPEAKER_04]: I will say though they're not really notorious or renowned for flailing like this.
[15:19.330 --> 15:21.970] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it didn't happen during the pandemic at least not to this extent.
[15:21.970 --> 15:30.250] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they were always sort of held in high regard for their uptime and capacities and stuff so this is unusual.
[15:30.810 --> 15:31.490] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[15:32.570 --> 15:34.190] [SPEAKER_01]: Alex, does this affect you at all?
[15:35.190 --> 15:35.970] [SPEAKER_03]: Not really.
[15:36.170 --> 16:04.930] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I feel like I was using Zoom quite a bit five years ago and most of the entities with which I tend to meet these days don't use Zoom anymore so I haven't felt any impact whatsoever which is I think saying something perhaps about Zoom I think a lot of larger organizations have migrated over the teams a lot of stodgier organizations or those who are fans of anachronisms I think still use
[16:04.930 --> 16:21.830] [SPEAKER_03]: WebEx I think more forward-looking organizations that are kind of lighter and agile are using Google Meet these days or kind of rolling their own with Jitsi and things like that So, yeah, I find it kind of annoying when I have to fire up the Zoom client these days.
[16:22.050 --> 16:23.750] [SPEAKER_03]: So it hasn't really affected me.
[16:23.830 --> 16:27.390] [SPEAKER_03]: But I can't say I'm not surprised at something that this eventually happened.
[16:27.570 --> 16:37.390] [SPEAKER_01]: It's always a good idea to have a backup, to have something else that works in case this thing that you use now breaks down or is hacked or goes out of business.
[16:37.950 --> 16:44.930] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, I mistakenly said Skype before because we're used to connecting on Skype when we do remote broadcasts like this.
[16:44.930 --> 16:46.950] [SPEAKER_01]: But Skype is shutting down.
[16:47.090 --> 16:49.550] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why we're using Signal now.
[16:50.050 --> 16:53.170] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, you can't take anything for granted.
[16:53.630 --> 16:55.670] [SPEAKER_01]: It all can disappear very easily, very quickly.
[16:57.190 --> 16:57.870] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[16:58.150 --> 17:05.830] [SPEAKER_01]: With those somber words, we have our special phone number for people who want to call in.
[17:06.070 --> 17:11.210] [SPEAKER_01]: That is, get ready to write it down, 802-321-4225.
[17:11.730 --> 17:14.510] [SPEAKER_01]: 802-321-HACK is our phone number.
[17:14.510 --> 17:24.970] [SPEAKER_01]: Again, we ask that if you have called us in recent weeks, please don't call us again tonight because we want to hear from the people who haven't called us or who haven't been able to get through.
[17:25.350 --> 17:36.730] [SPEAKER_01]: A number of people say they never get through because they try and somebody else is on the line and they wind up in some kind of voicemail hell that they can't get out of.
[17:37.270 --> 17:38.930] [SPEAKER_01]: So, 802-321-4225.
[17:39.190 --> 17:44.510] [SPEAKER_01]: So, if you, the person calling right now, have not called us, then we will welcome your call.
[17:48.060 --> 17:49.160] [SPEAKER_04]: That would be a no.
[17:49.280 --> 17:50.740] [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to wait for the next one.
[17:51.020 --> 17:51.680] [SPEAKER_01]: No, you know what?
[17:51.680 --> 17:58.220] [SPEAKER_01]: I say, if somebody actually, after all that, ignores what we say, then we know we can block them.
[17:58.220 --> 17:59.820] [SPEAKER_04]: I think they realized that mid-ring.
[18:00.100 --> 18:01.000] [SPEAKER_01]: They stopped.
[18:01.140 --> 18:01.200] [SPEAKER_01]: Good.
[18:01.200 --> 18:02.320] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, hastily stopped.
[18:02.740 --> 18:03.180] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[18:03.240 --> 18:04.120] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's pick this one up.
[18:05.600 --> 18:05.960] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[18:06.160 --> 18:07.920] [SPEAKER_04]: This might be a viable caller.
[18:08.100 --> 18:08.340] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[18:08.500 --> 18:09.960] [SPEAKER_01]: We're not going to judge before we pick up.
[18:10.240 --> 18:10.980] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not judging.
[18:11.060 --> 18:11.440] [SPEAKER_01]: Who knows?
[18:11.540 --> 18:12.880] [SPEAKER_01]: People can call from other people's phones.
[18:13.660 --> 18:14.100] [SPEAKER_01]: And good evening.
[18:14.280 --> 18:15.140] [SPEAKER_01]: You are on off the hook.
[18:15.440 --> 18:15.780] [SPEAKER_01]: Off The Hook.
[18:15.840 --> 18:16.040] [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
[18:21.460 --> 18:22.680] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, say that again?
[18:23.200 --> 18:24.140] [SPEAKER_01]: Could you say that again?
[18:25.360 --> 18:27.020] [SPEAKER_08]: My name is Serena Pepper.
[18:27.280 --> 18:27.840] [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Serena.
[18:29.080 --> 18:30.260] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm a first-time listener.
[18:30.600 --> 18:31.080] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[18:31.240 --> 18:31.420] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[18:31.460 --> 18:32.080] [SPEAKER_01]: Where are you calling from?
[18:33.360 --> 18:35.380] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm calling from Kingston, New York.
[18:35.660 --> 18:36.380] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow.
[18:36.620 --> 18:39.380] [SPEAKER_08]: I want to answer a question you asked earlier.
[18:39.560 --> 18:39.760] [SPEAKER_08]: Go ahead.
[18:39.980 --> 18:40.400] [SPEAKER_08]: Hypothetically.
[18:40.800 --> 18:40.980] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[18:41.800 --> 18:44.680] [SPEAKER_08]: You were wondering who was hacking the hackers?
[18:44.980 --> 18:45.360] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
[18:46.040 --> 18:50.900] [SPEAKER_08]: Is it possible that Anonymous has gotten their fingers into anything like this?
[18:51.080 --> 18:51.600] [SPEAKER_08]: Just curious.
[18:51.600 --> 18:55.860] [SPEAKER_08]: I know nothing about anything, but I'm putting it out there.
[18:56.020 --> 18:57.240] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know more than you think.
[18:57.500 --> 19:09.820] [SPEAKER_01]: And it certainly is possible that somebody affiliated with Anonymous, which is not technically a group, could be involved in this, or could be a victim of this, or, you know, you never know.
[19:09.920 --> 19:11.220] [SPEAKER_01]: You never know what's really going on out there.
[19:12.460 --> 19:23.140] [SPEAKER_08]: And then I was fascinated to hear you say that half a million customers from the legal weed store STEEZY got hacked, because I would be on that list.
[19:23.320 --> 19:23.720] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, boy.
[19:23.820 --> 19:23.920] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[19:24.080 --> 19:25.480] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the first I heard of that, too.
[19:27.060 --> 19:29.660] [SPEAKER_08]: Because I've purchased from them in California.
[19:29.660 --> 19:37.500] [SPEAKER_08]: And, of course, you have to give them your... they take your information, regardless of your eligibility and it being legal.
[19:37.620 --> 19:39.620] [SPEAKER_08]: They still record all of that.
[19:39.780 --> 19:40.980] [SPEAKER_04]: How widespread are they?
[19:40.980 --> 19:43.040] [SPEAKER_04]: Are they just in a certain region?
[19:43.240 --> 19:43.580] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you know?
[19:44.720 --> 19:45.760] [SPEAKER_08]: In California?
[19:46.360 --> 19:46.880] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[19:46.880 --> 19:48.280] [SPEAKER_04]: Are they in multiple states?
[19:48.280 --> 19:51.240] [SPEAKER_04]: How big of an extent do they have?
[19:52.120 --> 20:05.360] [SPEAKER_08]: I am only aware of them in California, but being widespread in California is probably the equivalent of being nationwide, wide on some level, especially since the legal marijuana business is not nationwide.
[20:05.660 --> 20:06.060] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[20:06.220 --> 20:08.100] [SPEAKER_08]: You can get your toehold in in California.
[20:08.100 --> 20:09.640] [SPEAKER_08]: You're bigger than anybody.
[20:09.920 --> 20:11.640] [SPEAKER_04]: And tourists, people coming through.
[20:11.880 --> 20:12.020] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[20:12.200 --> 20:12.360] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[20:13.200 --> 20:13.820] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah.
[20:13.880 --> 20:16.260] [SPEAKER_08]: You can get off of the train, which is what I did at Union Station.
[20:16.940 --> 20:17.700] [SPEAKER_08]: in L.A.
[20:17.820 --> 20:21.380] [SPEAKER_08]: and walk across the street and go to the weed store.
[20:22.060 --> 20:25.040] [SPEAKER_01]: Right down the block from the federal prison.
[20:26.780 --> 20:28.480] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, which is probably where I'll end up.
[20:28.640 --> 20:29.420] [SPEAKER_08]: So, oh, the irony.
[20:31.020 --> 20:32.940] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's good to get this call from Kingston.
[20:33.060 --> 20:36.200] [SPEAKER_01]: Kingston is the town with all the porches and all the stores, right?
[20:39.580 --> 20:44.620] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, that's so sweet that you know about our little canopy from hell.
[20:44.660 --> 20:45.200] [SPEAKER_01]: It's great.
[20:45.900 --> 20:47.280] [SPEAKER_01]: It definitely stands out.
[20:47.360 --> 20:49.800] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think Kingston has a really cool radio station, too.
[20:49.900 --> 20:50.840] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure about that.
[20:51.340 --> 20:52.400] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's...
[20:52.400 --> 20:58.080] [SPEAKER_08]: I've actually found you guys through 104.1 here.
[20:58.080 --> 20:59.440] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't remember what the...
[20:59.440 --> 21:03.920] [SPEAKER_08]: I should have remembered what the call tag is, but I can't listen to it and talk on it at the same time.
[21:04.140 --> 21:04.320] [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[21:04.360 --> 21:04.800] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I am aware.
[21:05.100 --> 21:12.520] [SPEAKER_08]: It's a very progressive local radio station here out of Woodstock, which is about 15 miles up from... up the line from Kingston.
[21:12.520 --> 21:14.880] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's pretty awesome, and it proves they have listeners.
[21:15.260 --> 21:18.720] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I'm glad to hear that's going on.
[21:18.780 --> 21:20.160] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm so fascinated by this option.
[21:20.420 --> 21:24.720] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think progressive radio is a big thing, and I wish it was bigger.
[21:24.940 --> 21:27.840] [SPEAKER_08]: But I love hearing you guys, and thank you for giving me airtime.
[21:28.060 --> 21:28.680] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for calling.
[21:29.380 --> 21:29.940] [SPEAKER_01]: Take care.
[21:30.140 --> 21:30.780] [SPEAKER_08]: Have a great day.
[21:31.240 --> 21:31.380] Bye.
[21:31.900 --> 21:34.180] [SPEAKER_01]: And Matt, that is why we ask for new callers.
[21:34.300 --> 21:39.700] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I'm so thankful to our re-airers, re-broadcasters up in Woodstock.
[21:39.700 --> 21:40.060] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[21:40.340 --> 21:41.820] [SPEAKER_04]: Because that's how that kind of call happens.
[21:42.160 --> 21:46.880] [SPEAKER_01]: And any other radio station out there that wants to re-broadcast this show, you have our permission.
[21:47.260 --> 21:48.520] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's all you need.
[21:49.660 --> 21:53.740] [SPEAKER_01]: If the people at PAI say no, we'll have another conversation.
[21:53.840 --> 21:55.020] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's okay with everybody.
[21:55.140 --> 21:56.300] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's okay with everybody.
[21:57.800 --> 21:59.740] [SPEAKER_01]: 802-321-4225, you have another phone call.
[21:59.800 --> 22:00.040] [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
[22:01.040 --> 22:01.800] [SPEAKER_01]: And good evening.
[22:01.980 --> 22:02.800] [SPEAKER_01]: You're on Off The Hook.
[22:02.880 --> 22:03.120] [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
[22:03.200 --> 22:03.580] [SPEAKER_01]: Log phone.
[22:04.040 --> 22:04.800] [SPEAKER_01]: It's no choice.
[22:05.020 --> 22:05.200] [SPEAKER_01]: Hello?
[22:06.740 --> 22:08.900] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we don't take prank calls either.
[22:09.700 --> 22:09.960] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[22:10.320 --> 22:12.300] [SPEAKER_01]: And note the number that called.
[22:12.800 --> 22:14.400] [SPEAKER_01]: That number may not call us again.
[22:15.640 --> 22:16.800] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what happens.
[22:17.200 --> 22:22.500] [SPEAKER_01]: So you're going to have to find another phone if you're calling us because we're not going to accept this.
[22:22.620 --> 22:24.920] [SPEAKER_01]: Write that number down, whoever that was.
[22:25.120 --> 22:27.560] [SPEAKER_01]: And 802-321-4225.
[22:27.720 --> 22:28.340] [SPEAKER_01]: Alex, did you have something?
[22:29.060 --> 22:34.920] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I guess it doesn't help that we've talked about spoofing caller ID many, many times on this show.
[22:35.160 --> 22:38.960] [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, our listeners should probably know how to get around that pretty easily.
[22:40.680 --> 22:41.780] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, maybe.
[22:42.060 --> 22:42.280] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe.
[22:42.440 --> 22:43.240] [SPEAKER_01]: You'd be surprised.
[22:43.820 --> 22:45.220] [SPEAKER_01]: 802-321-4225.
[22:46.480 --> 22:48.680] [SPEAKER_01]: So, Alex, I wanted to ask you about this.
[22:49.520 --> 22:51.220] [SPEAKER_01]: This whole thing with legal firms.
[22:51.380 --> 22:54.600] [SPEAKER_01]: More legal firms have caved to Trump in the last week.
[22:57.340 --> 23:03.660] [SPEAKER_01]: Basically, he is threatening them with all kinds of proclamations and penalties.
[23:04.240 --> 23:07.060] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what for, how you can just do that.
[23:07.400 --> 23:14.240] [SPEAKER_01]: But I've heard several legal firms say that they can easily go out of business unless they make some kind of a deal with them.
[23:14.240 --> 23:25.340] [SPEAKER_01]: And that deal winds up being, they're providing millions of dollars of legal services for either him or for causes that he approves of.
[23:25.820 --> 23:28.220] [SPEAKER_01]: It's the most corrupt-sounding thing you could imagine.
[23:28.800 --> 23:34.540] [SPEAKER_01]: What surprises me, though, is how many law firms are simply caving to this.
[23:34.620 --> 23:41.080] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if a law firm can't make a good argument against something like this, who can?
[23:41.480 --> 23:42.680] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, what's left?
[23:42.680 --> 23:49.680] [SPEAKER_01]: And how could you ever trust any kind of legal firm that is this weak as a lawyer yourself?
[23:49.820 --> 23:50.540] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have any thoughts?
[23:51.900 --> 23:54.060] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts about this.
[23:54.160 --> 24:13.800] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I could spend the rest of the hour going on about how I think this is a terrifying, terrible idea, an abusive process, abusive executive order, abuse of the office of the president of the United States, and that lawyers are abdicating their responsibility to ensure that the rule of law is what governs this country,
[24:14.240 --> 24:24.460] [SPEAKER_03]: not the fiat of a dictator, and that lawyers should be free to choose the pro bono causes and clients that they want to work on.
[24:24.460 --> 24:31.420] [SPEAKER_03]: They should not be dictated by a presidential fiat and bipartisan politics.
[24:31.420 --> 24:42.980] [SPEAKER_03]: The fact that these law firms are caving, I think, really is indicative of what the law firms are interested in from the outset, right?
[24:42.980 --> 24:54.420] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, these are all, from what I can tell over the last week and over the last several weeks, they're all what we would call AMLAW 100 firms, meaning they are some of the biggest firms in the United States.
[24:54.520 --> 24:58.260] [SPEAKER_03]: They make tremendous amounts of money, and they exist to make money.
[24:58.400 --> 25:02.740] [SPEAKER_03]: And anything that affects their bottom line really rattles the partnership there.
[25:03.000 --> 25:17.340] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's the partnership, generally the equity partnership of these law firms and the executive committee in particular of these big firms that will make the decisions about whether or not they're going to negotiate or capitulate to the president when these executive orders are waved around,
[25:17.540 --> 25:19.080] [SPEAKER_03]: when they're issued, and when they're even threatened.
[25:19.460 --> 25:33.360] [SPEAKER_03]: And the executive committee there, I think, is very concerned about the bottom line of the firm and not being able to pay out large amounts of profit to the equity partners if a substantial chunk of that business is eroded.
[25:34.220 --> 25:54.880] [SPEAKER_03]: And what the president is threatening is generally to take away the security clearances of certain lawyers and to affect the ability of these firms to access federal buildings, to have interactions with federal agencies, and then that affects a lot of law firms' abilities to counsel clients that are government contractors.
[25:55.260 --> 26:08.560] [SPEAKER_03]: And that becomes a really big hit to the bottom lines of especially Washington, D.C.-based firms where government contracting is a massive amount of what goes on in those law firms.
[26:08.560 --> 26:16.520] [SPEAKER_03]: And in many firms, government contracting practice groups are the very foundation on which they've been built.
[26:16.700 --> 26:18.920] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's really hitting them in the purse.
[26:19.180 --> 26:37.920] [SPEAKER_03]: But I think what clients are doing now, and I think you see this a lot with statements that I believe came out from Coinbase and others, that they're not really interested and clients are not really interested in working with law firms that roll over so easily to power.
[26:37.920 --> 26:40.780] [SPEAKER_03]: And bend a knee to the president like this.
[26:40.860 --> 26:52.220] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, would you trust a law firm that just struck a deal with the president to really hold your interest dear and at heart and to advocate so zealously for your causes if they can't even fight back for their own?
[26:52.740 --> 26:54.420] [SPEAKER_03]: I think the answer has got to be no.
[26:55.520 --> 26:55.960] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[26:56.320 --> 26:56.600] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[26:57.500 --> 26:57.940] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[26:57.980 --> 26:59.940] [SPEAKER_01]: Our phone number, 802-321-4225.
[27:00.140 --> 27:02.120] [SPEAKER_01]: Kyra, any phone calls on there?
[27:02.540 --> 27:03.120] [SPEAKER_04]: Not yet.
[27:03.340 --> 27:04.540] [SPEAKER_04]: Looking for new callers?
[27:04.540 --> 27:07.180] [SPEAKER_01]: We are having problems with one caller.
[27:07.440 --> 27:07.860] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what?
[27:07.860 --> 27:08.260] [SPEAKER_01]: Pick this up.
[27:08.340 --> 27:09.340] [SPEAKER_01]: Whoever this is, pick this up.
[27:11.120 --> 27:11.520] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[27:11.620 --> 27:11.940] [SPEAKER_01]: Good evening.
[27:12.080 --> 27:12.960] [SPEAKER_01]: You're on Off The Hook.
[27:13.060 --> 27:13.280] [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
[27:14.720 --> 27:15.560] [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Emmanuel.
[27:15.980 --> 27:16.460] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Rebel.
[27:16.720 --> 27:17.980] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be very clear here.
[27:18.160 --> 27:19.440] [SPEAKER_01]: We asked you specifically.
[27:19.800 --> 27:23.700] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't call this week because you call every week and we ask for new people.
[27:23.900 --> 27:26.420] [SPEAKER_01]: And now you're calling us every two seconds.
[27:26.960 --> 27:28.860] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to make this very clear to you.
[27:29.080 --> 27:30.340] [SPEAKER_01]: It's nice to hear your voice.
[27:30.600 --> 27:31.640] [SPEAKER_01]: Hope you're having a good day.
[27:31.640 --> 27:33.100] [SPEAKER_01]: But we're going to hang up now.
[27:33.360 --> 27:38.680] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you call back, either this week or next week, your number will be permanently banned.
[27:39.020 --> 27:42.280] [SPEAKER_01]: I am not going to wait to hear if you understand what I'm saying.
[27:42.640 --> 27:44.960] [SPEAKER_01]: But I trust that you hear what I'm saying.
[27:45.940 --> 27:48.340] [SPEAKER_01]: And that is the end of this conversation.
[27:48.340 --> 27:49.560] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you in two weeks.
[27:50.260 --> 27:50.720] [SPEAKER_01]: Bye.
[27:51.760 --> 27:58.460] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, for everybody else, our phone number is 802-321-4225.
[27:59.300 --> 28:03.440] [SPEAKER_01]: Please call because, as you can see, it gets kind of competitive out there.
[28:03.740 --> 28:06.980] [SPEAKER_01]: And we want to hear callers like the call we just got.
[28:07.180 --> 28:09.020] [SPEAKER_01]: What an amazing call from Kingston, New York.
[28:09.140 --> 28:12.560] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, I know there are people listening all over the world.
[28:13.140 --> 28:15.440] [SPEAKER_01]: And you never get to say your piece.
[28:15.600 --> 28:23.120] [SPEAKER_01]: You never get to express your feedback to what we do here on Off The Hook, to what we do on WBAI.
[28:23.460 --> 28:24.340] [SPEAKER_01]: We want to hear that.
[28:24.400 --> 28:25.240] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what this show is for.
[28:25.360 --> 28:26.380] [SPEAKER_01]: We only do them once a month.
[28:26.460 --> 28:26.960] [SPEAKER_01]: And we have a call.
[28:27.040 --> 28:27.340] [SPEAKER_01]: Good evening.
[28:27.460 --> 28:28.300] [SPEAKER_01]: You're on Off The Hook.
[28:28.420 --> 28:28.680] [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
[28:29.580 --> 28:29.800] [SPEAKER_09]: Hi.
[28:30.000 --> 28:30.760] [SPEAKER_09]: How are you doing?
[28:30.940 --> 28:31.080] [SPEAKER_09]: Good.
[28:31.120 --> 28:31.400] [SPEAKER_09]: How are you?
[28:31.440 --> 28:32.840] [SPEAKER_01]: Where are you calling from?
[28:33.740 --> 28:35.080] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm calling from Woodstock.
[28:35.260 --> 28:36.640] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm listening on the same radio.
[28:36.880 --> 28:38.580] [SPEAKER_01]: All of our listeners in Woodstock.
[28:39.500 --> 28:40.380] [SPEAKER_01]: That's fine with me.
[28:40.380 --> 28:41.200] [SPEAKER_09]: It's possible.
[28:41.480 --> 28:42.160] [SPEAKER_09]: It's possible.
[28:42.360 --> 28:46.180] [SPEAKER_09]: Everybody is migrating to places where they feel safe at the moment, maybe.
[28:47.040 --> 28:47.220] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[28:47.340 --> 28:47.500] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[28:47.660 --> 28:48.280] [SPEAKER_01]: That's fair enough.
[28:48.500 --> 28:50.180] [SPEAKER_01]: Could you just turn down your radio a little bit?
[28:50.320 --> 28:51.880] [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's getting a little confusing.
[28:55.740 --> 28:57.160] [SPEAKER_09]: There, I got that one.
[28:57.560 --> 28:59.260] [SPEAKER_09]: I actually had two radios on.
[29:01.700 --> 29:03.100] [SPEAKER_01]: So, what's on your mind?
[29:04.600 --> 29:07.380] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I guess I've been listening for years.
[29:07.380 --> 29:09.860] [SPEAKER_09]: And my son originally turned me on to you.
[29:10.000 --> 29:13.440] [SPEAKER_09]: And I even get your periodical.
[29:14.360 --> 29:15.120] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.
[29:15.120 --> 29:15.520] [SPEAKER_01]: The magazine.
[29:15.700 --> 29:15.900] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[29:16.040 --> 29:16.300] [SPEAKER_01]: Cool.
[29:16.960 --> 29:17.200] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[29:17.340 --> 29:18.420] [SPEAKER_09]: The magazine, indeed.
[29:19.420 --> 29:22.720] [SPEAKER_09]: And so, I'm calling because nobody else is calling.
[29:22.880 --> 29:26.120] [SPEAKER_09]: And I hate seeing you out there.
[29:28.020 --> 29:29.700] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, here's the issue.
[29:29.800 --> 29:32.220] [SPEAKER_01]: We had one person calling who was tying up the phone line.
[29:32.340 --> 29:33.760] [SPEAKER_01]: And other people couldn't get through.
[29:33.760 --> 29:40.740] [SPEAKER_01]: And we see that they're trying to get through, but we can't get to them if they're the second call because of the way Google Voice is set up.
[29:40.880 --> 29:43.660] [SPEAKER_01]: So, basically, you're the one person that got through.
[29:43.680 --> 29:44.580] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm calling to say hello.
[29:44.760 --> 29:46.260] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't really need to be on air.
[29:47.840 --> 29:58.180] [SPEAKER_09]: And the only thing, you know, I'm sitting here, I was sitting here reading One Long Night, which is scary, pertinent at the moment.
[29:58.560 --> 30:00.560] [SPEAKER_09]: But I don't want to bum everybody out.
[30:01.160 --> 30:03.420] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, you wouldn't be the one bumming us out.
[30:03.420 --> 30:06.660] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's the news and current events that are bumming us out.
[30:06.740 --> 30:09.160] [SPEAKER_01]: So, what we need now is just inspiration on how to get through it.
[30:09.340 --> 30:10.020] [SPEAKER_01]: Who wrote that?
[30:10.740 --> 30:12.260] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, who wrote that piece?
[30:13.040 --> 30:14.340] [SPEAKER_09]: That's Andrea Pitzker.
[30:14.660 --> 30:14.880] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[30:16.300 --> 30:17.180] [SPEAKER_09]: Andrea Pitzer.
[30:18.300 --> 30:21.320] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's a global history of concentration camps.
[30:21.840 --> 30:24.540] [SPEAKER_09]: It's got pretty much the run up to today.
[30:24.820 --> 30:26.720] [SPEAKER_09]: She doesn't have any chapters on us.
[30:26.720 --> 30:34.620] [SPEAKER_09]: So, I'll have to do another edition to fit America in new concepts and concentration camps.
[30:35.700 --> 30:43.520] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, it's a reality that I see more people every day coming to terms with that, wow, we could actually go that route.
[30:45.800 --> 30:52.580] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think that, so, if everybody's so nice, like, we're all really nice, so it's just a matter of getting out in the street.
[30:52.780 --> 30:55.840] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's springtime, so it's a good time to do that.
[30:55.980 --> 31:06.320] [SPEAKER_09]: And if everybody finds places to go where everybody else is going to kind of show signs of forcing it to not be that way.
[31:07.080 --> 31:09.700] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think you have something there.
[31:09.860 --> 31:18.860] [SPEAKER_04]: It's often, I think our kindness is sometimes misinterpreted for a lack of vigor or forcefulness.
[31:20.180 --> 31:23.120] [SPEAKER_09]: No, I think it's demonized more than that.
[31:23.340 --> 31:24.040] [SPEAKER_09]: My God.
[31:24.640 --> 31:26.000] [SPEAKER_09]: It is really, right?
[31:26.140 --> 31:41.000] [SPEAKER_09]: It's like our being, like, a feat or something, or being, you know, smarter than now, or some kind, you know, it's like, it's, you know, I mean, the, the, to some people, the concept of compassion, they don't get it.
[31:41.360 --> 31:42.260] [SPEAKER_09]: They don't get it.
[31:42.420 --> 31:43.040] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you're right.
[31:43.200 --> 31:43.660] [SPEAKER_04]: True, true.
[31:44.580 --> 31:51.480] [SPEAKER_09]: They, they, they're, they're sure that anybody who thinks that they're of any aid to anybody else is a faker.
[31:51.660 --> 31:54.560] [SPEAKER_09]: And, but it doesn't, that doesn't make sense.
[31:54.760 --> 32:06.240] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, not liking fakes, I mean, like, because, because, I mean, Trump is so, I mean, if he's opening his mouth, he's lying.
[32:06.800 --> 32:11.420] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, he, even when he says things that are true, he has to put, cap them with things that aren't true.
[32:12.340 --> 32:12.780] [SPEAKER_09]: Like.
[32:13.020 --> 32:13.900] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[32:14.520 --> 32:14.960] [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely.
[32:14.960 --> 32:18.340] [SPEAKER_09]: Every time, if he's, if he's talking, he's making something up.
[32:18.560 --> 32:21.720] [SPEAKER_09]: He knows it's better to confuse people than to answer their questions.
[32:22.640 --> 32:36.900] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, I think the issue is, you know, not to focus on him so much other than, you know, what he has done and his, the damage he's causing, but focus on us and how we can be effective, how we can be strengthened, how we can help each other.
[32:37.100 --> 32:41.180] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the way to do that is to, is to support each other.
[32:41.320 --> 32:55.500] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, even if we're not people that generally agree on a lot of things, if we agree on one thing, that's enough to work together to achieve something that hopefully will, will pull us out of this before it gets much worse.
[32:55.500 --> 32:57.100] [SPEAKER_01]: And it can get a lot worse.
[32:57.260 --> 33:05.760] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm seeing things now that I never thought I'd experience, you know, somebody, somebody actually, you know, pulled out of this country, thrown into a gulag somewhere.
[33:06.440 --> 33:19.620] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, the Supreme Court unanimously, unanimously saying that he needs to come back and, and, and the president basically giving the middle finger to the Supreme Court, to the rule of law, you know, what, what is our plan for that?
[33:19.760 --> 33:24.660] [SPEAKER_01]: We don't seem to have a plan and we better, we better start making a plan or it's going to get much, much worse.
[33:26.540 --> 33:34.200] [SPEAKER_09]: We do have Congress doing, trying to do, maybe trying to focus something besides the next election.
[33:34.420 --> 33:36.300] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not seeing Congress doing much of anything.
[33:36.460 --> 33:39.980] [SPEAKER_01]: And, and you have to remember also that the majority of Congress is with him.
[33:40.560 --> 33:46.180] [SPEAKER_01]: And, um, we have to also look at ourselves because, you know, the American public made this happen.
[33:46.700 --> 33:49.820] [SPEAKER_01]: So, um, you know, the people around us, who are they?
[33:49.960 --> 33:50.700] [SPEAKER_01]: What do they want?
[33:50.820 --> 33:51.860] [SPEAKER_01]: Do they, did they want this?
[33:52.220 --> 33:54.840] [SPEAKER_01]: And if they didn't, I don't, you know, reach out to them.
[33:55.620 --> 34:00.100] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't believe, I mean, I'm much more, and I've been watching this go on for a long time.
[34:00.100 --> 34:12.020] [SPEAKER_09]: And I, and I, and I'm in the camp that the, that the, uh, the, uh, purging of voting roles and that kind of stuff really had an effect on this last election.
[34:12.520 --> 34:14.340] [SPEAKER_09]: Never, he would never have gotten near it.
[34:14.920 --> 34:16.780] [SPEAKER_09]: The people did not choose him.
[34:17.020 --> 34:20.520] [SPEAKER_09]: But the Republicans have so muddied the order.
[34:21.520 --> 34:25.520] [SPEAKER_09]: They're not doing, but they think exactly what they're screaming about.
[34:25.640 --> 34:27.720] [SPEAKER_09]: They're screaming about individuals.
[34:31.700 --> 34:34.260] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, the unfortunate...
[34:34.260 --> 34:37.560] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't, I don't believe it, but I think it's, we've let it happen.
[34:37.700 --> 34:38.480] [SPEAKER_09]: So that's true.
[34:38.700 --> 34:38.900] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[34:39.340 --> 34:41.040] [SPEAKER_09]: John, true that he's the president.
[34:41.640 --> 34:45.600] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the unfortunate reality is that, um, a lot of people support what he does.
[34:46.060 --> 34:47.800] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people back up what he does.
[34:47.860 --> 34:48.900] [SPEAKER_01]: Just look at his, his cabinet.
[34:49.360 --> 34:50.300] [SPEAKER_01]: Look at the people around him.
[34:50.300 --> 34:52.880] [SPEAKER_01]: There, there was that, um, cabinet meeting last week.
[34:52.980 --> 34:53.760] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you guys catch this?
[34:53.920 --> 35:03.920] [SPEAKER_01]: Where basically they went around this huge table and every, every, uh, um, um, uh, cabinet member, every secretary had to say something to praise Trump.
[35:04.220 --> 35:19.660] [SPEAKER_01]: It was, it was, I mean, every late night comic is having a field day with this, but boy, that was scary because, you know, they're, they're, they're, they're scared out of their wits that they're going to say something that, um, uh, won't land or that will offend him.
[35:19.660 --> 35:25.400] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I'm not really sure what they're scared of, uh, being purged, being, uh, out of a job.
[35:25.580 --> 35:35.460] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's not quite like North Korea where you wind up in a, you know, before a firing squad, but, um, to see people grovel like that, it's disgusting.
[35:36.640 --> 35:39.780] [SPEAKER_01]: And, um, I don't know anybody that wants to be like that.
[35:39.960 --> 35:40.980] [SPEAKER_01]: I really don't.
[35:41.100 --> 35:48.120] [SPEAKER_01]: So we, we have to recognize it for what it is and, um, make sure that it goes away and never comes back.
[35:49.040 --> 35:49.480] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[35:49.920 --> 35:50.260] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[35:51.680 --> 35:52.120] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[35:53.560 --> 35:54.060] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[35:54.100 --> 36:01.620] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, listen, it was great talking to you and, and, um, I, I, I hope, uh, to, to see Woodstock again someday because it's, it's, it's really an awesome place.
[36:02.960 --> 36:06.360] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's, it's quite, it's quite fine in many ways.
[36:06.720 --> 36:07.000] [SPEAKER_09]: Indeed.
[36:07.240 --> 36:09.120] [SPEAKER_09]: I've lived here all the time, so I can agree.
[36:09.460 --> 36:13.280] [SPEAKER_01]: And do you know the name of the radio station, that 104.1 that carries us?
[36:13.940 --> 36:15.300] [SPEAKER_09]: W-I-O-F.
[36:15.540 --> 36:16.380] [SPEAKER_01]: W-I-O-F.
[36:16.520 --> 36:16.720] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[36:17.880 --> 36:18.200] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[36:18.520 --> 36:18.620] Yeah.
[36:18.820 --> 36:26.140] [SPEAKER_09]: It's, uh, it's, it's, um, it's, um, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's a low-power broadcast.
[36:26.480 --> 36:26.740] [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
[36:28.400 --> 36:31.760] [SPEAKER_09]: But it's a legitimate, uh, it's a licensed, low-power.
[36:32.360 --> 36:32.620] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[36:33.580 --> 36:34.160] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's great.
[36:34.300 --> 36:34.640] [SPEAKER_09]: So that's pretty far.
[36:34.780 --> 36:35.240] [SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
[36:35.300 --> 36:37.000] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's good to know that we're reaching people out there.
[36:37.880 --> 36:38.180] [SPEAKER_01]: So, uh...
[36:38.180 --> 36:38.960] [SPEAKER_09]: And real people.
[36:39.500 --> 36:39.620] [SPEAKER_09]: Certainly.
[36:40.200 --> 36:40.640] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[36:40.700 --> 36:41.440] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, thanks for the call.
[36:41.600 --> 36:41.820] [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you very much.
[36:42.020 --> 36:44.280] [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll, uh, I'm sure we'll chat again soon.
[36:44.460 --> 36:44.760] [SPEAKER_01]: Take care.
[36:45.300 --> 36:50.560] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you look at W-I-O-F, the call letters, in the right way, it kind of spells 104.
[36:51.300 --> 36:57.360] [SPEAKER_01]: I, being a one, O, being a, um, a zero, and F, the first letter of four.
[36:57.700 --> 36:58.100] [SPEAKER_01]: See?
[36:58.980 --> 36:59.620] [SPEAKER_04]: That's clever.
[36:59.840 --> 37:00.620] [SPEAKER_01]: I could swear.
[37:00.840 --> 37:03.720] [SPEAKER_01]: I used to listen to a radio station with those call signs out of Connecticut.
[37:03.960 --> 37:04.460] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't swear.
[37:04.700 --> 37:05.440] [SPEAKER_01]: I could swear.
[37:05.620 --> 37:06.160] [SPEAKER_01]: I could.
[37:06.400 --> 37:06.620] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't swear.
[37:06.800 --> 37:06.940] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[37:06.960 --> 37:07.640] [SPEAKER_01]: We have another phone call.
[37:07.980 --> 37:10.060] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, maybe somebody from New York City.
[37:10.220 --> 37:12.060] [SPEAKER_01]: We do broadcast to New York City as well.
[37:12.240 --> 37:16.060] [SPEAKER_01]: But Woodstock, boy, uh, everybody in Woodstock is calling us.
[37:16.140 --> 37:16.420] [SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
[37:16.520 --> 37:16.920] [SPEAKER_01]: That's wonderful.
[37:17.080 --> 37:17.900] [SPEAKER_01]: It's the magic of radio.
[37:18.120 --> 37:18.720] [SPEAKER_01]: And good evening.
[37:18.920 --> 37:19.640] [SPEAKER_01]: You're on Off The Hook.
[37:19.740 --> 37:19.960] [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
[37:21.340 --> 37:21.860] [SPEAKER_05]: Hello?
[37:22.180 --> 37:22.780] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, go ahead.
[37:22.900 --> 37:23.420] [SPEAKER_01]: Where are you calling from?
[37:23.540 --> 37:23.900] [SPEAKER_05]: Can you get...
[37:23.900 --> 37:24.140] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, yeah.
[37:24.200 --> 37:24.440] [SPEAKER_05]: Hi.
[37:24.840 --> 37:25.980] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, my name is Frank.
[37:26.180 --> 37:26.660] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm from...
[37:26.660 --> 37:29.120] [SPEAKER_05]: Calling from, uh, Woodbridge, New Jersey.
[37:29.380 --> 37:29.960] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, cool.
[37:31.080 --> 37:33.900] [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, I'm kind of a lighter note.
[37:34.480 --> 38:00.840] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, all this, uh, uh, stuff recently about AI, uh, using computers to write stories and, uh, you know, without any input from an actual writer, uh, uh, when I first heard about this, I remembered a science fiction story I read back in the 60s called The Silver Egghead by Fritz Lieber.
[38:02.260 --> 38:08.620] [SPEAKER_05]: And in it, uh, they had these machines called word mills, which were essentially computers.
[38:09.020 --> 38:16.180] [SPEAKER_05]: And the writer would just literally program, uh, that he wanted to write a story, like, say, a mystery.
[38:17.280 --> 38:20.280] [SPEAKER_05]: And the machine would churn out one of these stories.
[38:21.860 --> 38:22.340] [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[38:23.000 --> 38:27.760] [SPEAKER_05]: And, but, and it was, uh, written in what was called word woos.
[38:29.100 --> 38:34.500] [SPEAKER_05]: And this was, you know, like, stream of thought, uh, words.
[38:34.860 --> 38:41.400] [SPEAKER_05]: Just, like, you know, run together, almost like, uh, you know, people using the, uh, Internet lingo.
[38:41.400 --> 38:46.320] [SPEAKER_01]: So, so, so this story from the 1960s pretty much predicted ChatGPT.
[38:47.160 --> 38:49.120] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, something like that.
[38:49.560 --> 39:00.100] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, but the main emphasis of the story was that the writers revolted, destroyed all of the machines because they thought they were real writers.
[39:00.640 --> 39:03.680] [SPEAKER_05]: Turns out they didn't know how to write, actually write something.
[39:04.600 --> 39:09.520] [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, the country started falling apart because people couldn't get their word woos.
[39:10.460 --> 39:16.500] [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, and the, the silver eggheads came up later in the story.
[39:16.720 --> 39:27.340] [SPEAKER_05]: And it turns out these were the brains of actual writers who were within these, uh, you know, like little, uh, you know, silver eggs.
[39:27.580 --> 39:30.860] [SPEAKER_05]: And they were able to, you know, start writing again.
[39:31.740 --> 39:36.200] [SPEAKER_05]: But the whole idea was that, uh, writing was done by, uh, computers.
[39:37.120 --> 39:43.480] [SPEAKER_05]: Or at that time, uh, you know, I don't know if they, uh, you remember this is the 60s.
[39:43.600 --> 39:47.620] [SPEAKER_05]: So, uh, I don't know if they had the same ideas that they have today.
[39:47.860 --> 39:51.880] [SPEAKER_05]: But essentially what it was is the machines were just turning out stories.
[39:52.880 --> 39:59.580] [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, that's, uh, you know, actual writing, uh, kind of fell by the wayside.
[40:00.720 --> 40:01.880] [SPEAKER_01]: That sounds fascinating.
[40:02.240 --> 40:09.500] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, there's nothing better than going back and reading old stories, old novels that predict the future.
[40:09.560 --> 40:12.840] [SPEAKER_01]: And some of them seem to get it right on, you know?
[40:12.980 --> 40:19.000] [SPEAKER_01]: So some of the, uh, evils of technology, you know, you look around you and you say, I saw that in a science fiction story.
[40:19.160 --> 40:25.240] [SPEAKER_01]: You, you, you know, what, what Black Mirror is doing today in a, you know, a decade or two will probably be reality.
[40:25.240 --> 40:28.460] [SPEAKER_01]: So some of these stories are really on the mark.
[40:28.460 --> 40:34.020] [SPEAKER_01]: Some of them are way off, but, you know, they're all very, uh, illuminating in one way or another.
[40:34.340 --> 40:35.500] [SPEAKER_01]: Can you, can you tell us the name of it again?
[40:36.700 --> 40:41.200] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, The Silver Egghead is written by Fritz Lieber.
[40:43.160 --> 40:43.640] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[40:43.820 --> 40:47.240] [SPEAKER_05]: Who wrote, you know, a variety of type of stories.
[40:47.440 --> 40:51.200] [SPEAKER_05]: He wrote, uh, horror and he, uh, wrote great fine fiction.
[40:52.540 --> 41:01.420] [SPEAKER_05]: And he, uh, there was a, uh, movie came out, uh, also in the sixties called, uh, Equinox.
[41:02.140 --> 41:05.980] [SPEAKER_05]: It was kind of a, uh, uh, H.P.
[41:06.100 --> 41:10.600] [SPEAKER_05]: Lovecraft type story and was based on a story that he wrote.
[41:11.960 --> 41:19.400] [SPEAKER_05]: So, and he also wrote a story called A Conjure Wife, which was made into a really good British, uh, horror movie.
[41:21.100 --> 41:25.460] [SPEAKER_05]: So, he's fairly well known, uh, you know, back in that time.
[41:25.840 --> 41:27.860] [SPEAKER_05]: So, I don't know if anybody knows about him today.
[41:29.100 --> 41:30.080] [SPEAKER_01]: Alex, did you have something?
[41:33.010 --> 41:33.830] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah.
[41:34.050 --> 41:38.430] [SPEAKER_03]: The, um, I, I, I love this idea of, of, of looking back at these things.
[41:38.490 --> 41:52.990] [SPEAKER_03]: And, and I think I mentioned this on, on the air maybe a year or two ago, but there was an Isaac Asimov short story that I often cite whenever I'm asked to talk about AI on some ridiculous panel, which seems to be like, you know, every other month at this point.
[41:53.430 --> 41:58.970] [SPEAKER_03]: But, um, this Asimov short story was included in the, in a compendium of stories called Nine Tomorrows.
[41:59.090 --> 42:04.370] [SPEAKER_03]: And I picked it up in Istanbul, I think in 1997 or 1998 for like seven cents or something.
[42:04.370 --> 42:05.290] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm reading through this.
[42:05.450 --> 42:12.130] [SPEAKER_03]: It was the one short story that stuck in my mind was, uh, it was about this guy who was picked up off the street in the future.
[42:12.150 --> 42:16.450] [SPEAKER_03]: You don't know what's going on, but there's a war happening between machines and the outside.
[42:16.690 --> 42:21.690] [SPEAKER_03]: And this, this guy's picked up and he's put in this colony with all these doers and thinkers.
[42:22.930 --> 42:35.830] [SPEAKER_03]: And he's supposedly some amazing mathematician who's come up with some mathematical principle that is going to catapult forward human intelligence such that they're going to be able to stop these warring artificial intelligence machines that have been,
[42:35.830 --> 42:40.310] [SPEAKER_03]: uh, combating each other for decades, hundreds of years, maybe even.
[42:40.710 --> 42:52.830] [SPEAKER_03]: And you realize that this guy who's looked upon as the savior at the end of the novel, what he has discovered was actual, uh, multiplication, simple multiplication was this great mathematical revelation.
[42:52.830 --> 43:08.210] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's when you realize that human, the human species has been so incredibly dumbed down by the use of technology and the reliance of technology that they forgot how to do basic math and thought that something as simple as multiplication was going to be able to,
[43:08.210 --> 43:13.650] [SPEAKER_03]: to stop this massive war and, and allow them to predict the trajectories of missiles and things.
[43:13.790 --> 43:35.690] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I, um, I think that these cautionary tales about the implications of artificial intelligence are really important for us to, to understand, because I do think that we will ultimately lose the ability to organize our thoughts and to write well if we continually rely on these GPTs for our thinking,
[43:35.990 --> 43:38.390] [SPEAKER_03]: for our, the organization of our thoughts.
[43:38.670 --> 43:52.950] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I, I teach law at King's College in London and I know that my students in preparation of their dissertation outlines and in the preparation of their dissertation, they're very often using ChatGPT and it's hard to detect.
[43:53.150 --> 43:54.090] [SPEAKER_03]: It's hard to figure it out.
[43:54.490 --> 44:05.110] [SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like they're cheating themselves in doing this because you're, they're, they're not allowing themselves to learn and to figure out how to organize their thoughts and to think about the issues themselves.
[44:05.130 --> 44:10.870] [SPEAKER_03]: So I, I like to emphasize the, the artificial part of artificial intelligence.
[44:10.870 --> 44:18.410] [SPEAKER_03]: And I hope that one day we'll look at artificial sweeteners as something possibly to be avoided.
[44:18.550 --> 44:20.710] [SPEAKER_03]: There's not the same as the real thing.
[44:20.870 --> 44:23.770] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I will take sugarcane over aspartame any day.
[44:23.890 --> 44:29.810] [SPEAKER_03]: And I hope that, that we begin to look at human generated creative content the same way.
[44:31.370 --> 44:32.570] [SPEAKER_01]: Well put, well put.
[44:33.250 --> 44:35.470] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, caller, thank you for giving us something to really think about.
[44:36.210 --> 44:36.610] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[44:36.910 --> 44:37.270] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[44:37.410 --> 44:37.630] [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[44:37.630 --> 44:38.010] [SPEAKER_01]: Take care.
[44:38.150 --> 44:39.810] [SPEAKER_01]: We have time for one more call.
[44:39.810 --> 44:41.610] [SPEAKER_01]: 802-321-4225.
[44:41.750 --> 44:47.750] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was, um, remembering a story that I read in school, uh, called the machine stops.
[44:47.850 --> 44:49.390] [SPEAKER_01]: You guys ever hear about this, uh, the story?
[44:49.550 --> 45:02.130] [SPEAKER_01]: I just looked it up on Wikipedia and, um, they describe it as, um, um, set in the world where humanity lives underground and relies on a great machine to provide its needs.
[45:02.790 --> 45:08.610] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, it was written by, uh, uh, a science fiction writer, E.M.
[45:08.710 --> 45:12.970] [SPEAKER_01]: Forster and the year 1909.
[45:13.970 --> 45:14.410] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[45:15.330 --> 45:17.730] [SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, that's a story worth reading.
[45:17.890 --> 45:18.970] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a story worth reading.
[45:19.430 --> 45:20.950] [SPEAKER_01]: Talk about predicting things.
[45:21.170 --> 45:28.330] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, this is shortly after the telephone was invented and, um, it, it stuck with me all these years.
[45:28.430 --> 45:31.410] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to, like to read it again, but there are so many, so many stories out there.
[45:31.490 --> 45:37.510] [SPEAKER_01]: Heinlein, Clark, uh, those are the well-known science fiction writers, but there are so many others throughout the ages.
[45:38.510 --> 45:38.990] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[45:39.170 --> 45:51.230] [SPEAKER_04]: I had a conversation with a friend who's a technician over the summer and they were talking about, um, the sense that they felt like they're getting dumber and it's not really their fault and, uh, that sort of mental atrophy.
[45:51.230 --> 46:01.270] [SPEAKER_04]: And that was, it was sort of a joke, uh, uh, maybe exaggerated, but in their work, um, diagnosing and stuff, they use sort of older test equipment.
[46:01.450 --> 46:16.850] [SPEAKER_04]: And he talked about some of the other, uh, colleagues that were of other generations that were sort of afraid of them because they had dials and switches and, you know, required a little bit more, uh, careful, uh, setup and thought they would only use sort of things with tablets and,
[46:16.950 --> 46:18.490] [SPEAKER_04]: and, uh, an interface.
[46:18.830 --> 46:29.950] [SPEAKER_04]: So I think those are the things you have to kind of share, uh, across, uh, time is what the old way of doing things and, and newer tools and everybody can continue learning.
[46:30.130 --> 46:30.570] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[46:30.650 --> 46:31.690] [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to make this one a quick one.
[46:31.690 --> 46:32.050] [SPEAKER_01]: Good evening.
[46:32.250 --> 46:33.090] [SPEAKER_01]: You're on off the hook.
[46:33.210 --> 46:33.390] [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
[46:35.150 --> 46:36.010] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, hi.
[46:36.150 --> 46:40.930] [SPEAKER_06]: I'd just like to invite everybody to a super nationwide tour going on right now.
[46:41.090 --> 46:44.130] [SPEAKER_06]: And then to, um, share some good news about it.
[46:44.270 --> 46:44.610] [SPEAKER_06]: Is that okay?
[46:44.890 --> 46:45.750] [SPEAKER_01]: A nationwide what?
[46:46.930 --> 46:47.530] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, tour.
[46:47.770 --> 46:48.690] [SPEAKER_06]: It's a speaking tour.
[46:48.930 --> 46:53.470] [SPEAKER_06]: It's the second one ever in existence about, um, Stop Top Cities.
[46:53.870 --> 46:56.950] [SPEAKER_06]: It's called the Stop Top City Imaginary Crimes Tour.
[46:57.230 --> 46:57.550] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[46:57.550 --> 47:04.450] [SPEAKER_06]: And that New York stop is at May Day Space on Sunday at 5.30 until 9 o'clock.
[47:04.810 --> 47:07.690] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and there's this stop all over the country.
[47:08.050 --> 47:21.810] [SPEAKER_06]: And, um, the positive news, um, about it that I wanted to share is that, um, Ohio, uh, there's a woman in Ohio that's named Emily Cole who defeated her pop city in the budget stage.
[47:22.110 --> 47:24.190] [SPEAKER_06]: And then she became a city council person.
[47:24.510 --> 47:34.010] [SPEAKER_06]: And there is a, uh, how to explain your video on how everybody can do it like they did in two weeks with 30 people and one protest.
[47:34.950 --> 47:40.710] [SPEAKER_06]: That video is called, um, Inside Cobb City Ohio Project.
[47:42.250 --> 47:44.430] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you so much for letting me share.
[47:44.530 --> 47:44.770] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[47:44.970 --> 47:45.410] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you.
[47:45.530 --> 47:47.070] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for, for sharing that with us.
[47:47.450 --> 47:50.950] [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, that's, that's gonna just about do it for us, uh, tonight.
[47:51.310 --> 47:57.210] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, boy, those calls went fast, but they were all good calls, all really cool and, uh, revealing and all that.
[47:57.530 --> 48:03.870] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I want to invite people to write to us here at off the hook, oth@2600.com.
[48:04.130 --> 48:08.730] [SPEAKER_01]: I also want to invite people to support WBAI because without WBAI, we can't do any of this.
[48:09.270 --> 48:09.830] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry.
[48:09.890 --> 48:12.330] [SPEAKER_01]: We can't pick up that phone call because, uh, we're out of time.
[48:12.450 --> 48:14.230] [SPEAKER_01]: I wish we had more time and we should do this more often.
[48:14.650 --> 48:22.430] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but please support WBAI, uh, give, um, uh, give2wbai.org or buddy.wbai.org.
[48:22.630 --> 48:24.950] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, those are ways that you can support the radio station.
[48:25.090 --> 48:25.750] [SPEAKER_01]: Keep us strong.
[48:25.890 --> 48:29.110] [SPEAKER_01]: Keep the voices, uh, speaking one way or another.
[48:29.670 --> 48:33.030] [SPEAKER_01]: And, um, we'll, we'll, we won't let you down.
[48:33.170 --> 48:42.290] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about all the things that are going on in the world of technology, all the, um, uh, the, the, the rights that we know we have, that we have to fight for.
[48:42.890 --> 48:44.610] [SPEAKER_01]: It's so very, very important.
[48:44.770 --> 48:51.410] [SPEAKER_01]: And, um, we all need to, uh, support each other, keep in touch and educate at one another.
[48:51.750 --> 48:55.510] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, again, oth@2600.com is our email address.
[48:55.770 --> 49:03.150] [SPEAKER_01]: We will be back next week with another edition of off the hook, and we'll be back for overtime next week as well at 8 PM.
[49:03.370 --> 49:04.170] [SPEAKER_01]: Not this week though.
[49:04.530 --> 49:07.290] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, this is a manual for Alex and for Kyle.
[49:08.290 --> 49:09.170] [SPEAKER_01]: Know your rights.
[49:11.670 --> 49:16.570] [SPEAKER_10]: This is a public service announcement with guitar.
[49:19.130 --> 49:20.430] [SPEAKER_10]: Know your rights.
[49:22.150 --> 49:24.390] [SPEAKER_10]: All three of them, I say.
[49:26.370 --> 49:27.870] [SPEAKER_10]: Know your rights.
[49:28.330 --> 49:29.770] [SPEAKER_10]: Know your rights.
[49:30.230 --> 49:31.690] [SPEAKER_10]: Know your rights.
[49:34.360 --> 49:36.040] [SPEAKER_10]: All three of them.
[49:39.080 --> 49:40.320] [SPEAKER_10]: Number one.
[49:41.600 --> 49:44.200] [SPEAKER_10]: You have the right to stay alive.
[49:45.020 --> 49:47.360] [SPEAKER_10]: Murder is a crime.
[49:47.360 --> 49:47.680] [SPEAKER_10]: Murder is a crime.
[49:47.940 --> 49:48.620] [SPEAKER_10]: Murder is a crime.
[49:48.620 --> 49:49.460] [SPEAKER_10]: Whoever does it.
[49:51.060 --> 49:53.460] [SPEAKER_10]: Except policemen.
[49:56.750 --> 49:58.370] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, that is so crap.
[49:59.330 --> 50:01.210] [SPEAKER_10]: Just a billionaire.
[50:04.700 --> 50:06.440] [SPEAKER_10]: Number two.
[50:07.040 --> 50:11.440] [SPEAKER_10]: You have the right to fish money.
[50:11.440 --> 50:16.260] [SPEAKER_10]: With a little compulsory computer investigation.
[50:17.240 --> 50:20.220] [SPEAKER_10]: Some ordinary human humiliation.
[50:21.020 --> 50:24.300] [SPEAKER_10]: And, if you cross your fingers.
[50:27.400 --> 50:28.800] [SPEAKER_10]: Rehabilitation.
[50:30.660 --> 50:33.340] [SPEAKER_10]: Know these rights.
[50:34.880 --> 50:36.280] [SPEAKER_10]: Know these rights.
[50:36.280 --> 50:38.000] [SPEAKER_10]: These are your rights.
[51:06.750 --> 51:08.230] [SPEAKER_10]: Young offenders.
[51:10.350 --> 51:12.830] [SPEAKER_10]: Know your rights.
[51:15.830 --> 51:16.950] Number three.
[51:17.550 --> 51:21.030] [SPEAKER_10]: You have the right to freeze.
[51:22.550 --> 51:26.410] [SPEAKER_10]: As long as.
[51:27.130 --> 51:30.150] [SPEAKER_10]: You're not dumb enough to actually try it.
[51:33.980 --> 51:36.140] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, these are your rights.
[51:39.700 --> 51:41.320] [SPEAKER_10]: Study these rights.
[51:44.560 --> 51:47.240] [SPEAKER_10]: These are your rights!
[51:47.920 --> 51:49.920] [SPEAKER_10]: Know your rights!
[51:50.380 --> 51:51.820] [SPEAKER_10]: Know your rights!
[51:52.320 --> 51:53.700] [SPEAKER_10]: Know your rights!
[52:13.280 --> 52:14.760] [SPEAKER_10]: Be warm!
[52:22.680 --> 52:23.300] [SPEAKER_10]: Go!
[52:25.000 --> 52:26.820] Get off the street!
[52:29.880 --> 52:30.960] [SPEAKER_10]: Get off the street!
[53:01.500 --> 53:04.440] [SPEAKER_10]: Finally then, I will lead you your rights!
[53:07.440 --> 53:09.900] [SPEAKER_10]: And you are wrong that anything you say
[53:17.320 --> 53:26.800] [SPEAKER_10]: can and will be taken down and used to say anything against you!
[53:37.380 --> 53:38.680] [SPEAKER_10]: Listen to this!